# Neutral Bridges #3



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

That is pretty much my experience with senior centers as well. 


Designer1234 said:


> Huck, I might not have been clear- I didn't teach at nursing homes. I taught at Seniors Centers -- The ages were usually from 70 years on, and they quilted, played cards (cut throat I may add and very very serious bridge), went on tours, 2 or 3 had in town organized walking tours. Went by bus to the Calgary Stampede on Seniors Day, Took bus tours up to Banff. Acted as liason and helpers for seniors who had questions about taxes, about rentals, about medical problems, - sometimes senior abuse, (depending a lot on the person who was hired by the City Parks and Recreation dept. to run the center}. Some centers were large and some were small.
> 
> One large one had Dances every Saturday night and seniors from all over the city would come and meet new people and dance. There were romances etc. I didn't find them any different than any other club, except that they were often grey haired. I took some years when I didn't work full time and enjoyed teaching them a lot - hours were good, pay wasn't but I would have taught for nothing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Just be who you are....enjoyable.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:



> There is a seniors' centre just along the road from where I live, but at 72 1/2 I consider myself still too young to attend. Besides, from what I see of activities they are all "old people things." There is nothing there to interest me. So I will just keep plodding along my own path until I get old.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why do they need to carry a pen in their pocket anyway?



Natureschampion said:


> Yah, that was my dad! Although, he never wore them at work and would often come home with ink blots on his pocket from when he forgot to pit the tip of the pen back in. Lol. I haven't seen a pocket protectors since the 80s. I also don't wear shirts with breast pockets. What's the substitute?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some might say that the person who blamed you was rude. If the person felt strongly about it, a PM could have been sent.



Natureschampion said:


> That's what I thought. But on another thread I was told that I had interrupted a conversation, and later by someone else that I had been rude. I didn't think I had been until I remembered that the initial post I had responded to was addressed to someone else. I thought this might be the reason I was blamed for interrupting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for sharing. A good example of 'it's never too late.'



Designer1234 said:


> I have a slightly different feeling about Seniors Centers. I taught watercolor and card making to 5 different Seniors groups in my home town for 20 plus years. I had a ball. You would be surprised at how talented, down to earth and how 'young ' many of them were. There were people who had physical problems, there were some who had the beginnings of dimensia, but there were interesting , funny, loving, knowledgeable people there too. Much like any place else.
> 
> I loved to hear it when they started to talk about their memories of home and family - (just what we have done here) actually usually me. I am a senior, I guess that is par for the course. I think you might sell yourself short by feeling that you don't want to do 'old people things'.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet someone on KP knows publishing. Start a thread on the subject.



Natureschampion said:


> I would love nothing more than to be published. It has always been a dream of mine. I just have never known where to start or how to proceed.
> 
> Any suggestions of where to start? What to write? I have a short story that could easily be turned into the first book of a children's book series. I also have some thoughts written down on how to enjoy life, especially the little things, like enjoying the beauty nature has to offer. I have a lot of different philosophies and my own personal quotes. I also have essays that I think would be interesting to some; one of my favorites discusses the modern literary hero, comparing them to the heroes of old. It focus on the superhero, but I use many examples.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm ashamed to admit my over-protective mother would never let me learn to ride a bike. (She had an accident.) I'd love a trike now!



bonbf3 said:


> We should probably start doing that again! My daughter, who is only in her early forties, says that when she's older she wants to get one of the three-wheeled adult trikes and go shopping and all over town. I loved riding a bike, used to take her on the back in a seat. Then we moved to Atlanta - too many hills to pull her. I miss the bike-riding.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> It all sounds like good reading. I don't know where to start. The only person I know well who is a published author has an agent. I know someone who has self-published, and that's another way. She published her own book and now it's on Amazon. Maybe she'll get noticed.
> 
> I'll bet there are some published authors on here or on KP's chit-chat? You could ask there.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Go for it.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Sorry - I don't know it.


WICKED (music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz, book by Winnie Holzman) is a musical based on the novel WICKED: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST (Gregory McGuire), which uses the story of THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ (L. frank Baum) as a backdrop. McGuire wanted to write a social commentary that illustrated how so many people could be duped by one person (he was appalled but intrigued by how hitler was so successful), and the relationship between the individual and society. The music and lyrics are wonderful, but the messages contained in the story are the best part. It is about Elphaba (the "presumed" wicked witch of the west), who is different. In Oz, like so many places, different=bad. Galinda (Glinda the good witch in Wizard of Oz) is wealthy, pretty, and popular, not all that nice, but since she has the other qualities going for her is deemed "good". The story is about the development of the two characters and their relationship to each other, and how society will listen to one person on how another should be treated (the wizard proclaims Elphaba to be bad, therefore she is). It also shows how despite what that person feels about them selves, they may eventually turn into the person that everyone else thinks they are (self fulfilling prophecy in psychology). There is a great song that represents this; "no good deed". 
There is much, much more to it than that. If you have the chance to see it, I definitely suggest it. If not, then the original broadway cast recording is amazing, with two of the most talented broadway actresses as the lead witches. 
In the end, Elphaba and Galinda come together for a final exchange (don't think you know the ending if you have seen the wizard of oz). They talk about how each other has influenced them. Here is a bulk of the "dialogue". They are inspiring words, but the music adds something to make the sentiment truly shine through.

[GALINDA]
I've heard it said,
That people come into our lives
For a reason
Bringing something we must learn.
And we are lead to those
Who help us most to grow if we let them.
And we help them in return.
Well, I don't know if I believe that's true
But I know I'm who I am today
Because I knew you.
Like a comet pulled from orbit
As it passes a sun,
Like a stream that meets a boulder
Halfway through the wood.
Who can say if I've been changed for the better
But because I knew you.
I have been changed for good.

[ELPHABA:]
It well may be
That we will never meet again
In this lifetime.
So, let me say before we part:
So much of me
Is made of what I learned from you.
You'll be with me
Like a handprint on my heart.
And now whatever way our stories end
I know you'll have rewritten mine
By being my friend.

Like a ship blown from its mooring
By a wind off the sea.
Like a seed dropped by a sky bird
In a distant wood.
Who can say if I've been changed for the better
But because I knew you...

[GLINDA:]
Because I knew you...

[BOTH:]
I have been changed for good.
...

I believe that everything happens for a reason, and those we meet are destined to influence who we are one way or another. I have always felt that, but this song expresses that concept so perfectly.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Why do they need to carry a pen in their pocket anyway?


Lol. My dad is a physician and often needs to write/sign things when he's not at his desk. He also had them when he was in school, but I can't guess the justification for that other than being prepared.

I understand why people carry them on them, I carry a crochet hook, even if I don't have yarn!! Lol!! My motto is " better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".    It's also a comfort somehow, like a child with his blankie. I will often just finger the hook when I am getting anxious and it helps to cal me. Maybe that's what it's like for people who carry around a pen?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I bet someone on KP knows publishing. Start a thread on the subject.


I will definitely do that when I have more work ready. Thanks, dame!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope I get a chance to see it. I love the Wizard of OZ. My youngest daughter would only answer to "Big Dorothy" for years and my favorite quote from the movie is "Don't look behind the curtain."



Natureschampion said:


> WICKED (music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz, book by Winnie Holzman) is a musical based on the novel WICKED: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST (Gregory McGuire), which uses the story of THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ (L. frank Baum) as a backdrop. McGuire wanted to write a social commentary that illustrated how so many people could be duped by one person (he was appalled but intrigued by how hitler was so successful), and the relationship between the individual and society. The music and lyrics are wonderful, but the messages contained in the story are the best part. It is about Elphaba (the "presumed" wicked witch of the west), who is different. In Oz, like so many places, different=bad. Galinda (Glinda the good witch in Wizard of Oz) is wealthy, pretty, and popular, not all that nice, but since she has the other qualities going for her is deemed "good". The story is about the development of the two characters and their relationship to each other, and how society will listen to one person on how another should be treated (the wizard proclaims Elphaba to be bad, therefore she is). It also shows how despite what that person feels about them selves, they may eventually turn into the person that everyone else thinks they are (self fulfilling prophecy in psychology). There is a great song that represents this; "no good deed".
> There is much, much more to it than that. If you have the chance to see it, I definitely suggest it. If not, then the original broadway cast recording is amazing, with two of the most talented broadway actresses as the lead witches.
> In the end, Elphaba and Galinda come together for a final exchange (don't think you know the ending if you have seen the wizard of oz). They talk about how each other has influenced them. Here is a bulk of the "dialogue". They are inspiring words, but the music adds something to make the sentiment truly shine through.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've explained it perfectly. Thank you.



Natureschampion said:


> Lol. My dad is a physician and often needs to write/sign things when he's not at his desk. He also had them when he was in school, but I can't guess the justification for that other than being prepared.
> 
> I understand why people carry them on them, I carry a crochet hook, even if I don't have yarn!! Lol!! My motto is " better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it".    It's also a comfort somehow, like a child with his blankie. I will often just finger the hook when I am getting anxious and it helps to cal me. Maybe that's what it's like for people who carry around a pen?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I hope I get a chance to see it. I love the Wizard of OZ. My youngest daughter would only answer to "Big Dorothy" for years and my favorite quote from the movie is "Don't look behind the curtain."


It's very different from the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy is only mentioned (I believe). It does give an interesting perspective on how the tin man, scarecrow, and cowardly lion came to be, though; and why the cowardly lion and the tin man have a particular dislike for the "wicked" witch. It also gives insight as to why the ruby slippers are so important to the witch, and illustrates how the flying monkeys came to be (which was not elphabas fault, btw.).

It also compels us TO look behind the curtain, in the context that what you are being told is not always right, and not always good. It tells us to question our "leaders" if we think they are being less than honorable.

It is a play definitely worthy of intelligent discussion afterwards, and is a timeless story. Kinda like Les Miserables, which is one of my favorite musicals of all time (along with Ragtime).


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> WICKED (music and lyrics by Stephen Schwartz, book by Winnie Holzman) is a musical based on the novel WICKED: THE LIFE AND TIMES OF THE WICKED WITCH OF THE WEST (Gregory McGuire), which uses the story of THE WONDERFUL WIZARD OF OZ (L. frank Baum) as a backdrop. McGuire wanted to write a social commentary that illustrated how so many people could be duped by one person (he was appalled but intrigued by how hitler was so successful), and the relationship between the individual and society. The music and lyrics are wonderful, but the messages contained in the story are the best part. It is about Elphaba (the "presumed" wicked witch of the west), who is different. In Oz, like so many places, different=bad. Galinda (Glinda the good witch in Wizard of Oz) is wealthy, pretty, and popular, not all that nice, but since she has the other qualities going for her is deemed "good". The story is about the development of the two characters and their relationship to each other, and how society will listen to one person on how another should be treated (the wizard proclaims Elphaba to be bad, therefore she is). It also shows how despite what that person feels about them selves, they may eventually turn into the person that everyone else thinks they are (self fulfilling prophecy in psychology). There is a great song that represents this; "no good deed".
> There is much, much more to it than that. If you have the chance to see it, I definitely suggest it. If not, then the original broadway cast recording is amazing, with two of the most talented broadway actresses as the lead witches.
> In the end, Elphaba and Galinda come together for a final exchange (don't think you know the ending if you have seen the wizard of oz). They talk about how each other has influenced them. Here is a bulk of the "dialogue". They are inspiring words, but the music adds something to make the sentiment truly shine through.
> 
> ...


Very nice. Thanks for posting the words. So each influenced the other for good? Must have been a thought-provoking play.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Go for it.


There are groups for people interested in writing, they get together support each other's efforts, share efforts and sometimes research for each other. 
Here is a quick example that I picked only because it said Cali.

http://creative-writing.meetup.com/cities/us/ca/mission_viejo/
At least now you know it will be easy to find when you are ready, NC.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> You've explained it perfectly. Thank you.


My father carried a little notebook and a pen in his breast pocket at all times. We all laughed because he even carried it in his pajama pocket! He was full of ideas and wrote them down.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I bet someone on KP knows publishing. Start a thread on the subject.


Isn't SQM writing a book? she might know where to start.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> There are groups for people interested in writing, they get together support each other's efforts, share efforts and sometimes research for each other.
> Here is a quick example that I picked only because it said Cali.
> 
> http://creative-writing.meetup.com/cities/us/ca/mission_viejo/
> At least now you know it will be easy to find when you are ready, NC.


Great idea - so nice of you, Knitanon!

The writer I know who has published many books over the years has always belonged to a writers' group. I second Knitanon's suggestion! I did it for a while - loved it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huck, I looked at the pictures from yesterday as you suggested. That was an especially nice group of pictures. Those shawls were so pretty, and the big girl/little girl dresses were striking.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I hope I get a chance to see it. I love the Wizard of OZ. My youngest daughter would only answer to "Big Dorothy" for years and my favorite quote from the movie is "Don't look behind the curtain."


I saw it last week. There was a note on my ticket (not for children under 8 years old:

It really didn't have anything to do with the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy. It was the relationship of two witches, and also how the Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow evolved -

I enjoyed it - butmainly because of the wonderful voices, the sets were outstanding the whole show was excellent.

It is considered the best Broadway musical ever. I haven't seen that many but I admit I liked cats and the Phantom just as much. Possisbly because i was not familiar with the music.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> SQM:
> 
> I would Georgia Washington! Actually, GWP stands for German Wirehair Pointer and lver is short for lover. My husband and I have 2 GWP's - hunting dogs. Hence, GWPlver. And the panda in my avatar prefers red wine and chocolate to bamboo!


Thanks. You are very cute and can have your wine and chocolates in my canopy anytime.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> It all sounds like good reading. I don't know where to start. The only person I know well who is a published author has an agent. I know someone who has self-published, and that's another way. She published her own book and now it's on Amazon. Maybe she'll get noticed.
> 
> I'll bet there are some published authors on here or on KP's chit-chat? You could ask there.
> 
> ...


Ms. Bonnie's advice was correct. You will need to write an entire manuscript and then find a literary agent to push it. Amazon does self-publishing and will put you on their roster. I don't know the cost. The publishing business is in huge turmoil now with e-books becoming more and more popular. But do your homework and be optimistic.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> There are groups for people interested in writing, they get together support each other's efforts, share efforts and sometimes research for each other.
> Here is a quick example that I picked only because it said Cali.
> 
> http://creative-writing.meetup.com/cities/us/ca/mission_viejo/
> At least now you know it will be easy to find when you are ready, NC.


Wow, knitanon, Thanks!! You're so thoughtful! This is quite helpful, and even if the OC one is not for me, at least I have a starting point.

I don't have time do more than a general skim right now, but I have the link opened in another tab. Is there a way to save just this post to my KP account?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Wow, knitanon, Thanks!! You're so thoughtful! This is quite helpful, and even if the OC one is not for me, at least I have a starting point.
> 
> I don't have time do more than a general skim right now, but I have the link opened in another tab. Is there a way to save just this post to my KP account?


Yes, bookmark the page at the top left. You'll see "bookmark" and maybe
"Unwatch." Right above the "author" column.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> My father carried a little notebook and a pen in his breast pocket at all times. We all laughed because he even carried it in his pajama pocket! He was full of ideas and wrote them down.


Now THATS my kind of man!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I saw it last week. There was a note on my ticket (not for children under 8 years old:
> 
> It really didn't have anything to do with the Wizard of Oz and Dorothy. It was the relationship of two witches, and also how the Tin Man, the Lion and the Scarecrow evolved -
> 
> ...


Don't you love Gregory McGuires take on that? It puts things in a whole different perspective.

They are all very different. I don't agree that wicked was the BEST of all time, either. As a matter of fact, Avenue Q won the Tony for best musical that year. Avenue q is quite entertaining. It is basically "muppets" for adults, complete with songs titled: "I wish I could go back to college", "the internet is for porn" and "everyone's a little bit racist" which is my personal favorite. Its a parody, or fares. Very funny.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Don't you love Gregory McGuires take on that? It puts things in a whole different perspective.
> 
> They are all very different. I don't agree that wicked was the BEST of all time, either. As a matter of fact, Avenue Q won the Tony for best musical that year. Avenue q is quite entertaining. It is basically "muppets" for adults, complete with songs titled: "I wish I could go back to college", "the internet is for porn" and "everyone's a little bit racist" which is my personal favorite. Its a parody, or fares. Very funny.


I don't get to go to many shows, but I loved Wicked! One of these days I'm going to check out Mcguires book. (Macguire? Can't remember)


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Ms. Bonnie's advice was correct. You will need to write an entire manuscript and then find a literary agent to push it. Amazon does self-publishing and will put you on their roster. I don't know the cost. The publishing business is in huge turmoil now with e-books becoming more and more popular. But do your homework and be optimistic.


I will! Thanks mamma sloth! Your advice in invaluable. I will begin to collect my work and decide where to go from there.

I should also talk to my chiropractor. His novel is in it's final stages of publication.

Oh, and isn't it sad about print books? There are few things less satisfying to me than flipping through pages, holding a hard bound copy of my favorite book.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> Yes, bookmark the page at the top left. You'll see "bookmark" and maybe
> "Unwatch." Right above the "author" column.


Ok, thanks! I thought that bookmarks the entire thread.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> I don't get to go to many shows, but I loved Wicked! One of these days I'm going to check out Mcguires book. (Macguire? Can't remember)


I just looked it up, it's Maguire. I've seen it 3 or 4 times, I can't remember. I love the theater. One of the reasons I like "old" movies the best is bc they stay truer to that form. If you like musical theater and don't have access to a lot of shows, or just can't get there, I know a bunch that have been made into great movies.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I really is misunderstood. In fact, Tourette's, too, is a "spectrum disorder". I don't have such severe "outbursts"; most my simple and complex ticks are more physical in nature. Sometimes they look like mini seizures or even grand mal seizures. I also repeat things-words, phrases-over and over. And over and over and over... I'm sure you know what I mean.
> 
> I thank you for your kind and encouraging words. I have a passion for writing and expressing myself. I have a zillion ideas, and appreciate the chance to share them. It's not just the anonymity that is a blessing. It's the opportunity to choose the right words, too. Also, we don't have to worry about the stuttering, eye contact, and other issues that block our desire to communicate.
> 
> I am so glad we have the chance to share our experiences with each other. It is a true comfort. Don't you think?


Yes!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Huck, I might not have been clear- I didn't teach at nursing homes. I taught at Seniors Centers -- The ages were usually from 70 years on, and they quilted, played cards (cut throat I may add and very very serious bridge), went on tours, 2 or 3 had in town organized walking tours. Went by bus to the Calgary Stampede on Seniors Day, Took bus tours up to Banff. Acted as liason and helpers for seniors who had questions about taxes, about rentals, about medical problems, - sometimes senior abuse, (depending a lot on the person who was hired by the City Parks and Recreation dept. to run the center}. Some centers were large and some were small.
> 
> One large one had Dances every Saturday night and seniors from all over the city would come and meet new people and dance. There were romances etc. I didn't find them any different than any other club, except that they were often grey haired. I took some years when I didn't work full time and enjoyed teaching them a lot - hours were good, pay wasn't but I would have taught for nothing.


Designer1234
you made yourself clear, you described it in your language and I took it like a place where my dear FIL resided, a Senior Center. It was a beautiful setting but I felt that the People living there were not given the respect they deserved. He was happy living there - he loved the Climate - it was in Tucson. We tried very hard to have him live with us but we have several Seasons and he did not like Winter.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> My father carried a little notebook and a pen in his breast pocket at all times. We all laughed because he even carried it in his pajama pocket! He was full of ideas and wrote them down.


bonbf3
one would never find my dear husband without his favorite Pen and Pencil in his shirt pocket. He will never wear a shirt without a pocket. When dressing formal he hides his utensils behind a fancy Kerchief.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> one would never find my dear husband without his favorite Pen and Pencil in his shirt pocket. He will never wear a shirt without a pocket. When dressing formal he hides his utensils behind a fancy Kerchief.


Between this and the movies, it sounds like you dh and I would get along nicely!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> you made yourself clear, you described it in your language and I took it like a place where my dear FIL resided, a Senior Center. It was a beautiful setting but I felt that the People living there were not given the respect they deserved. He was happy living there - he loved the Climate - it was in Tucson. We tried very hard to have him live with us but we have several Seasons and he did not like Winter.


The ones I taught at were drop in centers -- not live in. They were often in community centers and in some cases they are buildings that are fully for seniors - no rooms, but lots of crafts and a manager that runs it. It might be different up here. There are also people who look after the crafts in extended care or nursing homes as well. I didn't teach there except for one nursing home. More difficult to teach.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Now THATS my kind of man!


 :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I will! Thanks mamma sloth! Your advice in invaluable. I will begin to collect my work and decide where to go from there.
> 
> I should also talk to my chiropractor. His novel is in it's final stages of publication.
> 
> Oh, and isn't it sad about print books? There are few things less satisfying to me than flipping through pages, holding a hard bound copy of my favorite book.


Yes, I do agree about books. I was always taught that books are precious, and I can't get over it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> one would never find my dear husband without his favorite Pen and Pencil in his shirt pocket. He will never wear a shirt without a pocket. When dressing formal he hides his utensils behind a fancy Kerchief.


He sounds like a great guy!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


Very cool! Was that also the inspiration for your avatar last week or whenever it was?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


Beautiful, as usual, Shirley.
You must wear a different sweater every single day of the year. And you must have a lot of closet and drawer space, too!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Shirley - magnificent crafts and I am amazed at that sweater. Your hands are better than any machine.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


I love the colors. You have pretty much convinced me, I think I am going to explore the possibility of finding someone with space and time to help me do some glass work.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I love the colors. You have pretty much convinced me, I think I am going to explore the possibility of finding someone with space and time to help me do some glass work.


Capitol idea! Jolly good!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


How lovely both are. Good thing you posted in NB, so nobody can barge in and insist that your stained glass is not stained, nor is it glass.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> =========
> Age in years is something none of us can doing anything about. Age in thoughts and feelings don't have to be the same as the number of years you have lived.
> 
> I am still the person I always was. I have managed to grow 'old' but still feel young. Attitude is the thing.
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for respectfully so advising us. Some of us have long memories, going all the way back to January.


? Neutral, Poor Purl?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

'Don't look behind the curtain' comes from the Wizard who's trying to fool everyone. I think Frank Baum would prove to be an interesting raconteur.



Natureschampion said:


> It's very different from the Wizard of Oz. Dorothy is only mentioned (I believe). It does give an interesting perspective on how the tin man, scarecrow, and cowardly lion came to be, though; and why the cowardly lion and the tin man have a particular dislike for the "wicked" witch. It also gives insight as to why the ruby slippers are so important to the witch, and illustrates how the flying monkeys came to be (which was not elphabas fault, btw.).
> 
> It also compels us TO look behind the curtain, in the context that what you are being told is not always right, and not always good. It tells us to question our "leaders" if we think they are being less than honorable.
> 
> It is a play definitely worthy of intelligent discussion afterwards, and is a timeless story. Kinda like Les Miserables, which is one of my favorite musicals of all time (along with Ragtime).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Yes, bookmark the page at the top left. You'll see "bookmark" and maybe
> "Unwatch." Right above the "author" column.


I find the bookmark function convenient for anything I might try to search. There's a place to write comments too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It does but you can comment "publishing tips page ___."



Natureschampion said:


> Ok, thanks! I thought that bookmarks the entire thread.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> 'Don't look behind the curtain' comes from the Wizard who's trying to fool everyone. I think Frank Baum would prove to be an interesting raconteur.


Of course, you are right. I don't know why I wrote it like that. In fact, I believe he says it in Wicked as well? I have no excuse. <shame! shame shame>


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> It does but you can comment "publishing tips page ___."


Yay! Thanks! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Or stick it over on Pinterest!


damemary said:


> It does but you can comment "publishing tips page ___."


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Don't think you need one.


Natureschampion said:


> Of course, you are right. I don't know why I wrote it like that. In fact, I believe he says it in Wicked as well? I have no excuse. <shame! shame shame>


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


Lovely, Shirley.

I used to live in Tucson - cactus at sunset in a nearly silent desert is a magnificent experience.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I love the colors. You have pretty much convinced me, I think I am going to explore the possibility of finding someone with space and time to help me do some glass work.


I miss it as you need a place where you can sweep up the glass chips, a garage can do it. I did most of mine at the cottage those years after we stopped going to Arizona. I made a lots of stepping stones at the cottage and sold them, by word of mouth.

Most of my pictures etc. were made in the stained glass room (enough stations for 25 people working at once). We could buy our glass there and there were also 3 kilns for slumping. Oh joy!

That's it for awhile -- Huck will post some of her work in the next couple of days.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There are several offers that come out on Groupon type sites for crafting sessions. It would be nice to start with a bargain, my dd has done painting classes. They hold them in bars <shrug>, the most interesting part of that for me is seeing how each of her friends interprets or is able to execute that same scene in so many variations. It is a great way for people to build their confidence; plus, the instructor brings all of the supplies so there isn't that expense involved prior to deciding they really like it...or don't.



Designer1234 said:


> I miss it as you need a place where you can sweep up the glass chips, a garage can do it. I did most of mine at the cottage those years after we stopped going to Arizona. I made a love of stepping stones . Most of my pictures etc. were made in the stained glass room (enough stations for 25 people working at once). We could buy our glass there and there were also 3 kilns for slumping. Oh joy!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary
your flowers are exquisite.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I miss it as you need a place where you can sweep up the glass chips, a garage can do it. I did most of mine at the cottage those years after we stopped going to Arizona. I made a lots of stepping stones at the cottage and sold them, by word of mouth.
> 
> Most of my pictures etc. were made in the stained glass room (enough stations for 25 people working at once). We could buy our glass there and there were also 3 kilns for slumping. Oh joy!
> 
> That's it for awhile -- Huck will post some of her work in the next couple of days.


Designer1234
wonderful work. Each stone is lovely - my favorite is the one with the Poppy. I just love Poppies. Am painting a picture with Poppies right now.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Beautiful, as usual, Shirley.
> You must wear a different sweater every single day of the year. And you must have a lot of closet and drawer space, too!!


Most of them have been gifts. I do have a fair collection though. I wear them all the time in the fall winter and spring though.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I miss it as you need a place where you can sweep up the glass chips, a garage can do it. I did most of mine at the cottage those years after we stopped going to Arizona. I made a lots of stepping stones at the cottage and sold them, by word of mouth.
> 
> Most of my pictures etc. were made in the stained glass room (enough stations for 25 people working at once). We could buy our glass there and there were also 3 kilns for slumping. Oh joy!
> 
> That's it for awhile -- Huck will post some of her work in the next couple of days.


These are beautiful, Shirley. My grandchildren and I made some from a kit for children. Mixing the cement was really hard. Of course - they were just little stones and "baubles." Not actual art like yours. Well - it was kid-art. I love them.

Did you have to mix the cement by hand? I have a great place for stepping-stones, but that mixing was tricky. Just seeing yours make me want to try it. Maybe I can get my husband to stir the cement for me. :idea:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> These are beautiful, Shirley. My grandchildren and I made some from a kit for children. Mixing the cement was really hard. Of course - they were just little stones and "baubles." Not actual art like yours. Well - it was kid-art. I love them.
> 
> Did you have to mix the cement by hand? I have a great place for stepping-stones, but that mixing was tricky. Just seeing yours make me want to try it. Maybe I can get my husband to stir the cement for me. :idea:


My husband did all the cement work. there is a 'fan' type mixer which fits inside a pail, and we mixed the cement our selves, enough in one pail for each stepping stone. I did heavier weight cement on the bottom of the stone, finer weight cement was poured in the mold first, then the heavier . They have lasted over 20 years in the outside in our weather.

If you decide you want to make original ones let me know and I will give you some patterns for the glass, and tell you how to make them. I would check with a home building supply store for the mixer. It made a lot of difference; ( did ll4 one summer at the cottage) I cut the glass, prepared the molds - put in the glass upside down (Pat poured in the cement in the two weights. we let them sit outside for at least 72 hours, then turned them out on benches and let them dry completely. Wonderful fun.

You can also buy kits in Michaels and other craft places - mine were quite a bit bigger. A stained glass shop must still have the molds.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> ? Neutral, Poor Purl?


You're right. I should have been more circumspect.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> These are beautiful, Shirley. My grandchildren and I made some from a kit for children. Mixing the cement was really hard. Of course - they were just little stones and "baubles." Not actual art like yours. Well - it was kid-art. I love them.
> 
> Did you have to mix the cement by hand? I have a great place for stepping-stones, but that mixing was tricky. Just seeing yours make me want to try it. Maybe I can get my husband to stir the cement for me. :idea:


Warning! Do NOT use your Kitchen-Aid mixer for the cement. Not even the dough hook.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I miss it as you need a place where you can sweep up the glass chips, a garage can do it. I did most of mine at the cottage those years after we stopped going to Arizona. I made a lots of stepping stones at the cottage and sold them, by word of mouth.
> 
> Most of my pictures etc. were made in the stained glass room (enough stations for 25 people working at once). We could buy our glass there and there were also 3 kilns for slumping. Oh joy!
> 
> That's it for awhile -- Huck will post some of her work in the next couple of days.


Thanks for sharing, designer! These are a lot of fun. Vey pretty, too. My mom would love these. Are they from patterns or free form?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> My husband did all the cement work. there is a 'fan' type mixer which fits inside a pail, and we mixed the cement our selves, enough in one pail for each stepping stone. I did heavier weight cement on the bottom of the stone, finer weight cement was poured in the mold first, then the heavier . They have lasted over 20 years in the outside in our weather.
> 
> If you decide you want to make original ones let me know and I will give you some patterns for the glass, and tell you how to make them. I would check with a home building supply store for the mixer. It made a lot of difference; ( did ll4 one summer at the cottage) I cut the glass, prepared the molds - put in the glass upside down (Pat poured in the cement in the two weights. we let them sit outside for at least 72 hours, then turned them out on benches and let them dry completely. Wonderful fun.
> 
> You can also buy kits in Michaels and other craft places - mine were quite a bit bigger. A stained glass shop must still have the molds.


So you don't need a kiln for these ones? Hm...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Warning! Do NOT use your Kitchen-Aid mixer for the cement. Not even the dough hook.


Lol!! Thanks for the tip! I was just about to get mind out...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for sharing, designer! These are a lot of fun. Vey pretty, too. My mom would love these. Are they from patterns or free form?


People would order a theme , like making a cake. I would make the stones. One couple wanted a stone that represented each of them for their weddings. She wanted white lilies, and he was a baseball player. I made the Player in the center and surrounded him with white lilies, then the date of their weddings.

I didn't do two the same. Our cottage was in a forest and I made a stone for each of the birds we saw there. I had a ball.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> So you don't need a kiln for these ones? Hm...


no, you put clear sticky plastic with the sticky side up. press the picture on the plastic, in the mold. The pour the cement on top of the picture. Oh and I vaselined the sides so they would fall out when they were dry. They shrink a bit. we sometimes had l0 or l4 drying around the firepit (no fire) just in regular weather, rain or shine during the week. I enjoyed doing them a lot.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> here is a stained glass picture of the Superstition Mountains in Arizona. I did this one when we were in Mesa.


Designer1234
The stained glass is gorgeous and the sweater beautiful. Did you knit the patterns or stitch them afterwards?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> My husband did all the cement work. there is a 'fan' type mixer which fits inside a pail, and we mixed the cement our selves, enough in one pail for each stepping stone. I did heavier weight cement on the bottom of the stone, finer weight cement was poured in the mold first, then the heavier . They have lasted over 20 years in the outside in our weather.
> 
> If you decide you want to make original ones let me know and I will give you some patterns for the glass, and tell you how to make them. I would check with a home building supply store for the mixer. It made a lot of difference; ( did ll4 one summer at the cottage) I cut the glass, prepared the molds - put in the glass upside down (Pat poured in the cement in the two weights. we let them sit outside for at least 72 hours, then turned them out on benches and let them dry completely. Wonderful fun.
> 
> You can also buy kits in Michaels and other craft places - mine were quite a bit bigger. A stained glass shop must still have the molds.


I'll definitely come to you for advice if I do that. Right now I have so many projects waiting for me, but I would like to make stepping stones some day. I'll probably have to stick to the kits, though - unless it becomes a passion!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Warning! Do NOT use your Kitchen-Aid mixer for the cement. Not even the dough hook.


Phew! I'm so glad you warned me!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> People would order a theme , like making a cake. I would make the stones. One couple wanted a stone that represented each of them for their weddings. She wanted white lilies, and he was a baseball player. I made the Player in the center and surrounded him with white lilies, then the date of their weddings.
> 
> I didn't do two the same. Our cottage was in a forest and I made a stone for each of the birds we saw there. I had a ball.


You love what you do, Shirley! Your enthusiasm is contagious.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> The stained glass is gorgeous and the sweater beautiful. Did you knit the patterns or stitch them afterwards?


Huck - I knit the white sweater with the color on the neck, duplicate stitched the lines and duplicate stitched the people.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> My husband did all the cement work. there is a 'fan' type mixer which fits inside a pail, and we mixed the cement our selves, enough in one pail for each stepping stone. I did heavier weight cement on the bottom of the stone, finer weight cement was poured in the mold first, then the heavier . They have lasted over 20 years in the outside in our weather.
> 
> If you decide you want to make original ones let me know and I will give you some patterns for the glass, and tell you how to make them. I would check with a home building supply store for the mixer. It made a lot of difference; ( did ll4 one summer at the cottage) I cut the glass, prepared the molds - put in the glass upside down (Pat poured in the cement in the two weights. we let them sit outside for at least 72 hours, then turned them out on benches and let them dry completely. Wonderful fun.
> 
> You can also buy kits in Michaels and other craft places - mine were quite a bit bigger. A stained glass shop must still have the molds.


Designer1234
for just a few stepping stones, I used a mixer which fits at the end of a Drill and is normally used for mixing Paint.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234
here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


Huck and Shirley
You are both very talented people! So creative! Thank you for sharing these things with us.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Nice, Huck. 
What stitch do you think you will use for the pillow? A lacy look or an old standard such as a seed stitch?


Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Nice, Huck.
> What stitch do you think you will use for the pillow? A lacy look or an old standard such as a seed stitch?


Knitanon
I will just knit in very fine yarn on the machine, no pattern. I want the ruffles to be the focal point and not some design. Knitting the strip is very easy, ruffling it will take a bit and then sewing it to a base can be trying to get it even. I may crochet the edge of the strip to make the gathers/ruffling. I will try different things I am sure. The strip will have to be VERY long so that the ruffles rest against each other and do not go flat.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Huck and Shirley
> You are both very talented people! So creative! Thank you for sharing these things with us.


cookiequeen
time you show your creations, your work is ALWAYS beautiful and so perfect. I admire you knitting by pattern whereas I go by the seat of my pants. I love to read but not patterns.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Yes, it surely will. It could be quite a challenge and keep you busy for quite some time. 


Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> I will just knit in very fine yarn on the machine, no pattern. I want the ruffles to be the focal point and not some design. Knitting the strip is very easy, ruffling it will take a bit and then sewing it to a base can be trying to get it even. I may crochet the edge of the strip to make the gathers/ruffling. I will try different things I am sure. The strip will have to be VERY long so that the ruffles rest against each other and do not go flat.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


Your items are totally lovely. The rug is exceptional. What is the difference between needlepoint and cross stitch? You are a true Artsy-Craftsy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> for just a few stepping stones, I used a mixer which fits at the end of a Drill and is normally used for mixing Paint.


Our cement was too thick for that. Maybe we should add more water next time.

I have an old hand mixer that was a wedding present. It still works, after many years of hard use. Such a faithful little servant. It's my only mixer, so I don't dare try it on cement. Besides, it's a sweet little thing - I don't want to tax it too much.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


The ruffled pillow is so pure white and lovely. I like the needlepoint/cross stitch, too. Of course, you have to be able to draw to design that. Very pretty. It's a beautiful design.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Huck and Shirley
> You are both very talented people! So creative! Thank you for sharing these things with us.


I'd like to second what cookiequeen said!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> time you show your creations, your work is ALWAYS beautiful and so perfect. I admire you knitting by pattern whereas I go by the seat of my pants. I love to read but not patterns.


I would like to see your work Cookie queen, and every one elses. I find it so interesting to see what others create! Would you post some? Also Dame and anyone else who has some knitting or any other kind of work pictures. It shows us how different our interests are and the different types of talent.

In a million years I would never do lace. I don't have the knitting skills, nor do I like to follow patterns. Same thing with a fisherman's sweater. my knitting work is very simple when you look at it - I play with color and texture but only a few stitches. We all have our own way.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Huck and Shirley
> You are both very talented people! So creative! Thank you for sharing these things with us.


I'd like to second what cookiequeen said! I want to touch that pillow -it looks so cool and soft. I didn't know there was a ruffler for a sewing machine.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Your items are totally lovely. The rug is exceptional. What is the difference between needlepoint and cross stitch? You are a true Artsy-Craftsy.


SQM
Thank you very much. I am not an expert in embroidery terms but when doing needlepoint the stitching goes in just one direction and there are several ways of doing the stitching. When doing cross stitch you do the same stitch twice going in two directions to form an X. The rugs was to be in needlepoint but when it was finished I did not like it since the canvas showed in a number of places and so I stitched the whole thing again going in the other direction to form an X. I am posting a needlepoint I did and I think it shows the stitches going in just one direction (sorry, I do not have a close-up right now). The needlepoint I did in a combination of needlepoint and crewel (long stitch).


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Our cement was too thick for that. Maybe we should add more water next time.
> 
> I have an old hand mixer that was a wedding present. It still works, after many years of hard use. Such a faithful little servant. It's my only mixer, so I don't dare try it on cement. Besides, it's a sweet little thing - I don't want to tax it too much.


bonbf3
you may look at salvation army or goodwill and get one cheap to use for cement mixing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> The ruffled pillow is so pure white and lovely. I like the needlepoint/cross stitch, too. Of course, you have to be able to draw to design that. Very pretty. It's a beautiful design.


bonbf3
since I was not sure how well I would be doing with the rufflee, I used some real inexpensive white material from my stash and I must say I liked the outcome.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> The ruffled pillow is so pure white and lovely. I like the needlepoint/cross stitch, too. Of course, you have to be able to draw to design that. Very pretty. It's a beautiful design.


bonbf3
I use graft paper and fiddle to write a design and go from there. You could also use some pre-printed designs for embroidery. I think they may have that at Michaels or other craft stores.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I would like to see your work Cookie queen, and every one elses. I find it so interesting to see what others create! Would you post some? Also Dame and anyone else who has some knitting or any other kind of work pictures. It shows us how different our interests are and the different types of talent.
> 
> In a million years I would never do lace. I don't have the knitting skills, nor do I like to follow patterns. Same thing with a fisherman's sweater. my knitting work is very simple when you look at it - I play with color and texture but only a few stitches. We all have our own way.


Designer1234
I really dislike to follow patterns but I can figure them out without reading any. As to stitches, I try a lot of them they show on Videos on the Internet. I keep the test pieces and may knit up something in those stitches later. I am a very visual creature. Had to read so much in my profession and refuse to do that for my hobbies.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'd like to second what cookiequeen said! I want to touch that pillow -it looks so cool and soft. I didn't know there was a ruffler for a sewing machine.


bonbf3
a Ruffler I saw for the first time when my dear MIL gave me her Singer Featherweight, which I still have. The machine looked so dainty and the Ruffler rather mean. It is however a pretty easy gadget to work with. Go try it. Borrow one, many seamstresses have one and seldom use it unfortunately.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Thank you very much. I am not an expert in embroidery terms but when doing needlepoint the stitching goes in just one direction and there are several ways of doing the stitching. When doing cross stitch you do the same stitch twice going in two directions to form an X. The rugs was to be in needlepoint but when it was finished I did not like it since the canvas showed in a number of places and so I stitched the whole thing again going in the other direction to form an X. I am posting a needlepoint I did and I think it shows the stitches going in just one direction (sorry, I do not have a close-up right now). The needlepoint I did in a combination of needlepoint and crewel (long stitch).


That's gorgeous, Huck. I used to do cross stitch but never needlepoint. I'd like to try it - I've always thought it looked so elegant - and usually has such beautiful colors.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> you may look at salvation army or goodwill and get one cheap to use for cement mixing.


Wow - I never would have thought of that. I might just do that. We have a GoodWill near us, and I do think stepping stones would be so nice in parts of our yard. Thanks for the suggestion, Huck.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> since I was not sure how well I would be doing with the rufflee, I used some real inexpensive white material from my stash and I must say I liked the outcome.


I like it, too - it's lovely.

Years ago, when my youngest daughter was 7, I made a very fancy dress for her. I hadn't sewn in years. I can't think of the name of the special section of the dress, but it was all yellow and had a lot of ruffles. I did them by hand - and from memory of my Home Ec. class in high school. I was pretty excited that I could remember, relieved that I could get the machine to work, and happy with the dress. Satisfied, I put the sewing machine away and finally gave it to my other daughter. She doesn't sew, so now I have it back!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> a Ruffler I saw for the first time when my dear MIL gave me her Singer Featherweight, which I still have. The machine looked so dainty and the Ruffler rather mean. It is however a pretty easy gadget to work with. Go try it. Borrow one, many seamstresses have one and seldom use it unfortunately.


I'm surprise they don't use it - ruffles are definitely "in" for the little girls, and I've seen them on some adult dresses, too. It's so rewarding to make a ruffle because they're so darn pretty!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.

It had a fitted waist, and the bodice extended below the waist with a flared bottom with a ruffle. Does anyone know what that's called? I think it starts with a p, but all I can think of is pinafore and placket. I'm stuck on placket and can't think of what it was.

If I remember, I'll let you know. If you have any clue, please let me know. I may not sleep tonight!

The following very long link shows something like it. It's the blue dress. It has points at the bottom of the bodice, where ours had ruffles. Isn't there a name for that piece? It's almost jacket-like but is attached to the top of the dress, not separate.

Oh well, I don't expect anyone to look at this. I'll see if I can figure it out. Good detective game for me.

http://www.google.com/search?q=diagram+of+1867+victorian+dress+terms&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=BcDVXgwM_xMigM%253A%253BnONfzBMs6BQ5FM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fbethanish.wordpress.com%25252Fauthor%25252Fbethanish%25252Fpage%25252F20%25252F&source=iu&usg=__KNr0fcb87oqNlnbKVFyL2jkgets%3D&sa=X&ei=dPfeU4niEo6yyATzuIDABg&ved=0CDUQ9QEwCg&biw=1297&bih=812#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=BcDVXgwM_xMigM%253A%3BnONfzBMs6BQ5FM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fbethanish.files.wordpress.com%252F2011%252F02%252F1867_1.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fbethanish.wordpress.com%252Fauthor%252Fbethanish%252Fpage%252F20%252F%3B376%3B476


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Wow - I never would have thought of that. I might just do that. We have a GoodWill near us, and I do think stepping stones would be so nice in parts of our yard. Thanks for the suggestion, Huck.


bonbf3
may I make an other suggestion, if you go to Goodwill, I make my own powdered Sugar, I got a Coffee Mill at Salvation Army and I grind my regular sugar into powdered as I need it, that way it has no corn starch in it. I have another 2nd hand Coffee Mill I use to grind for example dried Mushrooms. Ground mushrooms give much more flavor to gravies for example and then I use the Mill to grind other herbs and spices as well. I roam around 2nd hand stores for pictures but not for the pictures but for frames for the ones I paint. Frames can be so expensive and this way they become affordable. Some of them I repaint and others I may add some molding etc. Tips for they day Friends. Now I want some from you, please.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> 
> It had a fitted waist, and the bodice extended below the waist with a flared bottom with a ruffle. Does anyone know what that's called? I think it starts with a p, but all I can think of is pinafore and placket. I'm stuck on placket and can't think of what it was.
> 
> If I remember, I'll let you know. If you have any clue, please let me know. I may not sleep tonight!


Peplum?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I like it, too - it's lovely.
> 
> Years ago, when my youngest daughter was 7, I made a very fancy dress for her. I hadn't sewn in years. I can't think of the name of the special section of the dress, but it was all yellow and had a lot of ruffles. I did them by hand - and from memory of my Home Ec. class in high school. I was pretty excited that I could remember, relieved that I could get the machine to work, and happy with the dress. Satisfied, I put the sewing machine away and finally gave it to my other daughter. She doesn't sew, so now I have it back!


bonbf3
putting ruffles on dresses or anything else with a ruffler is so easy and so pretty. Doing it without it can be head scratching.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


You and I are kindred spirits . You innovate - I rarely do anythng by the book. I have done that with needlepoint and it ended up cross stitch too. Great minds think alike! I love both of your pieces. The ruffled pillow is lovely and the cross stitch is glorious. great job Huck.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm surprise they don't use it - ruffles are definitely "in" for the little girls, and I've seen them on some adult dresses, too. It's so rewarding to make a ruffle because they're so darn pretty!


bonbf3
I think Rufflers look intimidating to many people.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> may I make an other suggestion, if you go to Goodwill, I make my own powdered Sugar, I got a Coffee Mill at Salvation Army and I grind my regular sugar into powdered as I need it, that way it has no corn starch in it. I have another 2nd hand Coffee Mill I use to grind for example dried Mushrooms. Ground mushrooms give much more flavor to gravies for example and then I use the Mill to grind other herbs and spices as well. I roam around 2nd hand stores for pictures but not for the pictures but for frames for the ones I paint. Frames can be so expensive and this way they become affordable. Some of them I repaint and others I may add some molding etc. Tips for they day Friends. Now I want some from you, please.


You seem to be exceptionally good at finding solutions to problems! I'm not that clever, but I'll try in the morning. Right now - it's off to bed for me. Thanks a lot, Huck - I've enjoyed your very interesting information and your pictures.

Good night, all.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I really dislike to follow patterns but I can figure them out without reading any. As to stitches, I try a lot of them they show on Videos on the Internet. I keep the test pieces and may knit up something in those stitches later. I am a very visual creature. Had to read so much in my profession and refuse to do that for my hobbies.


I follow by looking at the object and measuring for size. I have taught a class on making a cardigan by measuring and making a swatch and then using the stitchesnumber by multiplying the inches by the stitches per inch. that is how I do most of my sweaters. so much fun!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Peplum?


Maysmom!

YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for filling the empty spot in my brain. I couldn't think of that for anything. That's exactly what it was.

What was it that helped you figure it out? I'm so impressed. I could hardly even describe it. I'm going to look it up and see how it's defined.

Peplum. Peplum! No wonder I couldn't think of it - that's a hard word! Peplum.

peplum |ˈpepləm|
noun
a short flared, gathered, or pleated strip of fabric attached at the waist of a woman's jacket, dress, or blouse to create a hanging frill or flounce.

The blue ribbon goes to you, Maysmom!!! If you were here, I'd bake you a cake!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I follow by looking at the object and measuring for size. I have taught a class on making a cardigan by measuring and making a swatch and then using the stitchesnumber by multiplying the inches by the stitches per inch. that is how I do most of my sweaters. so much fun!


I like the math part, too - although i'm not as advanced as you. It's fun!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> 
> It had a fitted waist, and the bodice extended below the waist with a flared bottom with a ruffle. Does anyone know what that's called? I think it starts with a p, but all I can think of is pinafore and placket. I'm stuck on placket and can't think of what it was.
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I follow by looking at the object and measuring for size. I have taught a class on making a cardigan by measuring and making a swatch and then using the stitchesnumber by multiplying the inches by the stitches per inch. that is how I do most of my sweaters. so much fun!


Designer1234
I always make a test piece (learned that with machine knitting) and use measurements. It is fail safe


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Maysmom THANK YOU for helping out
bonbf3 THANK YOU for posting the site. I love it.
Have not heard of Peplum in ages. Lovely how it looks on that blue dress. I like the red outfit and the whites ones with the ladies flirting in the garden.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> 
> It had a fitted waist, and the bodice extended below the waist with a flared bottom with a ruffle. Does anyone know what that's called? I think it starts with a p, but all I can think of is pinafore and placket. I'm stuck on placket and can't think of what it was.
> 
> ...


Peplum?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> I think Rufflers look intimidating to many people.


They look like abstract metal animals. I used to love playing with the ruffler of my mother's machine. Now I have one of my own, and I still only play with it, never used it to make ruffles.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Peplum?


Yes!!! Another genius! I couldn't think of it to save myself. Thank you, Purl.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They look like abstract metal animals. I used to love playing with the ruffler of my mother's machine. Now I have one of my own, and I still only play with it, never used it to make ruffles.


I just saw a picture of one. Animal, for sure. Moose?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I just saw a picture of one. Animal, for sure. Moose?


bonbf3
here is a newer version, the old one looks really mean but I do not want to dig it out right now.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> here is a newer version, the old one looks really mean but I do not want to dig it out right now.


Looks like a bottle opener.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> People would order a theme , like making a cake. I would make the stones. One couple wanted a stone that represented each of them for their weddings. She wanted white lilies, and he was a baseball player. I made the Player in the center and surrounded him with white lilies, then the date of their weddings.
> 
> I didn't do two the same. Our cottage was in a forest and I made a stone for each of the birds we saw there. I had a ball.


That is so special! I bet you felt very blessed to do that for them.

I never make 2 of the same thing, I get too bored.  :wink:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I would like to see your work Cookie queen, and every one elses. I find it so interesting to see what others create! Would you post some? Also Dame and anyone else who has some knitting or any other kind of work pictures. It shows us how different our interests are and the different types of talent.
> 
> In a million years I would never do lace. I don't have the knitting skills, nor do I like to follow patterns. Same thing with a fisherman's sweater. my knitting work is very simple when you look at it - I play with color and texture but only a few stitches. We all have our own way.


I love knitting lace. Also cables, but since the weather has been so warm since I started knitting, laces seemed more enjoyable bc the people I give my projects to could use them right away. Also lots of cottons for me lately. I started knitting laces and cables within the first week of learning how to knit in general. I have never done a piece (other than a hat) in all closed st pattern. In laces and cables, there's too much going on for my attanetion to drift. You have NO idea (well, maybe you do, just a figure of speech) how much knitting/crochet has helped my ADHD.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Thank you very much. I am not an expert in embroidery terms but when doing needlepoint the stitching goes in just one direction and there are several ways of doing the stitching. When doing cross stitch you do the same stitch twice going in two directions to form an X. The rugs was to be in needlepoint but when it was finished I did not like it since the canvas showed in a number of places and so I stitched the whole thing again going in the other direction to form an X. I am posting a needlepoint I did and I think it shows the stitches going in just one direction (sorry, I do not have a close-up right now). The needlepoint I did in a combination of needlepoint and crewel (long stitch).


All of your work is so lovely, Huck. I used to do cross stitch, but it's been a long time and my vision is far too poor for it since I became a crafter. I so do admire what you do. And can I say, a bit envious? 

My mom made my brothers talis bag using needlepoint/cross stitch. It is a mural of Jerusalem, with a dove and olive branch and everything. It is quite special. Her friend cross stitched the prayer that goes at the neck of his talis.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I like the math part, too - although i'm not as advanced as you. It's fun!


Bonnie! I'm so sad I missed you today! Ah, well, there is always tomorrow...

It's funny bc I always hated math. Since I started knitting/crocheting, I love it! My ss (soul sister) is a math teacher and when I explained to her how I use math now, and how good I've gotten, she was so happy and proud. Lol! She was like "look, you're using (whatever) equations, and you didn't even know it! Go you!" She's so cute and sweet. You guys would really like her as well.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> All of your work is so lovely, Huck. I used to do cross stitch, but it's been a long time and my vision is far too poor for it since I became a crafter. I so do admire what you do. And can I say, a bit envious?
> 
> My mom made my brothers talis bag using needlepoint/cross stitch. It is a mural of Jerusalem, with a dove and olive branch and everything. It is quite special. Her friend cross stitched the prayer that goes at the neck of his talis.


Natureschampion. 
Thank you very much. Having seen what you accomplished in such a short time, you will be a fabulous knitter and crafter before too long as well. I am quite sure of that. Does talis in this case have something to do with good luck? Amazing what we are learning from each other here.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Bonnie! I'm so sad I missed you today! Ah, well, there is always tomorrow...
> 
> It's funny bc I always hated math. Since I started knitting/crocheting, I love it! My ss (soul sister) is a math teacher and when I explained to her how I use math now, and how good I've gotten, she was so happy and proud. Lol! She was like "look, you're using (whatever) equations, and you didn't even know it! Go you!" She's so cute and sweet. You guys would really like her as well.


Natureschampion
My youngest sister hated math in school, she got good grades but hated it with a passion. She eventually had her own business and became outstanding with numbers and now much enjoys solving math problems.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I follow by looking at the object and measuring for size. I have taught a class on making a cardigan by measuring and making a swatch and then using the stitchesnumber by multiplying the inches by the stitches per inch. that is how I do most of my sweaters. so much fun!


Designer1234
since some people look down on knitting and sewing, when I am asked what I like to spend my time with, I answer, engineering. Well, with these activities one gets involved in thinking inside out, outside in, upside down, downside up, measuring in many ways, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, etc. it is engineering, it earns respect that way.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> It's posted here on the forum, so you can go to the post and comment. I'll get the link.
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-275637-1.html


Thnx for the link. I haven't been online for a bit.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Save shame for those who deserve it. I enjoy your comments.



Natureschampion said:


> Of course, you are right. I don't know why I wrote it like that. In fact, I believe he says it in Wicked as well? I have no excuse. <shame! shame shame>


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheery zinnias. A bouquet to you.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> your flowers are exquisite.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion.
> Thank you very much. Having seen what you accomplished in such a short time, you will be a fabulous knitter and crafter before too long as well. I am quite sure of that. Does talis in this case have something to do with good luck? Amazing what we are learning from each other here.


Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was a more commonly known term. A talis is a prayer shall. It is also pronounced "talit". Ashkenazi Jews (Eastern European) pronounce the same letter with an "s", that Sephardic (Spanish, Portuguese, middle eastern) Jews use a "t" sound for the letter, which is the proper phonetic sound for that letter in Hebrew. My grandpa was all about producing it with the "s", so that stuck, though my education was in Hebrew and I was taught to use the "t". I always found the way my gp pronounced things endearing.

I guess "talis" and luck would most likely go together at a bar mitzvah (when a youth becomes an adult and his given his/her first talis) or at a wedding (when a talis makes up the wedding canopy) and people will shout "MAZEL TOV!" And burst into a round of a celebratory song that I will not attempt to butcher with transliteration. "Mazel tov" is our term for "good luck", the word "tov" means "good" in Hebrew. "Mazel" is a Yiddish term that has something to do with the stars. I do not remember the exact phraseology for what "Mazel" means, but it seams to have something to do with fate.

And thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I am now inspired to share pictures of the chupah (wedding canopy) that I used at my wedding which was made up of my grandpa's and father's talitzim (plural for talis) and the cords and flowers I crocheted to embellish the poles that supported it. I have to see if the ones my sister sent are good enough. It was such a small and low key wedding, I never thought to hire a photographer! Lol!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love petit point.



Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Thank you very much. I am not an expert in embroidery terms but when doing needlepoint the stitching goes in just one direction and there are several ways of doing the stitching. When doing cross stitch you do the same stitch twice going in two directions to form an X. The rugs was to be in needlepoint but when it was finished I did not like it since the canvas showed in a number of places and so I stitched the whole thing again going in the other direction to form an X. I am posting a needlepoint I did and I think it shows the stitches going in just one direction (sorry, I do not have a close-up right now). The needlepoint I did in a combination of needlepoint and crewel (long stitch).


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> since some people look down on knitting and sewing, when I am asked what I like to spend my time with, I answer, engineering. Well, with these activities one gets involved in thinking inside out, outside in, upside down, downside up, measuring in many ways, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, etc. it is engineering, it earns respect that way.


Why in the world would people look down on you for that? Those are very rare skills to have. The people who can go beyond making a dishcloth are even rarer. What do they do, solve nuclear equations? Brain surgery? The people who look down on it are the ones who can't do it and have a modicum of creative thinking, at best.

You are completely right that these gifts should be respected every bit as much as being able to solve tough equations. That's what it is. That's what it teaches us to do. To be able to create something from nothing IS engineering, you are right. But it goes beyond that and should be respected on its own. IMO.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> My youngest sister hated math in school, she got good grades but hated it with a passion. She eventually had her own business and became outstanding with numbers and now much enjoys solving math problems.


It's interesting how our perspective can change when we are presented with something in the right manner or context, isn't it?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

ute4kp said:


> Thnx for the link. I haven't been online for a bit.


UTE!!! What's up, home-squirrel! Where you been at? I've missed having you around. Hope you decide to stick around!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Save shame for those who deserve it. I enjoy your comments.


Aw, thanks dame! And I yours, of course.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Ok, here you guys go. This is my chupah (wedding canopy) and support. I designed the bases using plastic flower pots with inserts made of wood and PVC pipe for the poles to sit in. I only had a month between when my eyes healed after my final procedure and my wedding to crochet the flowers, so there weren't as many as I might have liked. Some of them were used in my bouquet. I also crocheted dh's buttonier (sp?), which I don't have a good pick of. The shimmery blue on the bottom of the bases were a last minute addition for weight. I didn't care if they didn't match. They seemed to be ok with the blue stripes of the talitzim. These talitzim belonged to my father and grandfather, who passed away a few months earlier (the week before my sis wedding). I was the first to be able to use this chupah. It was so special. And they didn't have the talitzim cleaned, so it smelled like grandpa! He was literally RIGHT OVER US! At least in part. That's how we viewed it, anyways. 
My sis mil sewed the talitzim together. It wasn't even complete and the side panels are held on by safety pins. Lol! 

I wish I had better photos to show you. I gave many of the flowers away to our guests and others who helped out, though they were not able to be there. I also made more and supplied my set up for the wedding of a son's friend. It is all disassembled now, but one of the smaller pots is in granny's room with some of the flowers. 

Thanks for letting me share!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> There was a Tom Mix, and i think John Ritter (remember him? boy, he died too young) was his son. I'm going to google and see.
> 
> No - John Ritter's father was Tom RITTER! How'd I miss that? I'd feel stupid, but I"m laughing too hard.
> 
> ...


Ahahaha. Mr. Ritter.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Isn't that something - how quickly it has all changed.
> 
> Bob Newhart - truly a master at low-key hilarity. I loved his shows and his comedy routines.


He's great. I saw him on an Alfred Hitchcock Hour episode the other night.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> What do you call it in your neck of the woods, when someone gives you a ride as a passenger on their push bike. On a girl's bike it means sitting on the seat behind the rider and the rider is standing up on the pedals riding the bike, and on a boy's bike it means sitting on the cross bar in front of the rider and holding on to the handle bars. My bike had a carrier over the back wheel to carry my school sachet and I would often double dinky my girl fiend home. Beryl had suffered from polio as a young child and had withered arms and legs, as a result she could not walk very far and then only slowly, but when I told her to hop on the back one day and I would give her a lift home, well, we never looked back. No, we never fell off despite the fact that I used to ride at break neck speed. Her father would be waiting at the gate for us after school and he would lift her off the bike and carry her inside. Great family but over the years since I left school, 1956, we have lost contact. We both moved interstate, and you know how easy it is to lose contact with someone when you both move.


We called it Riding Double.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Here's one more. Looking at them again, I don't know if I'm quite as proud as I was when I first created them. I need to see if any of the ones mom took are available to post. 

Note to self: if you have a significant event in your life, HIRE A PHOTOGRAPHER!


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> UTE!!! What's up, home-squirrel! Where you been at? I've missed having you around. Hope you decide to stick around!


Heeey, I missed you, too. Just been involved with other stuff. Nothing exciting. Enjoying our nice and cooler summer this year.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Here's one more. Looking at them again, I don't know if I'm quite as proud as I was when I first created them. I need to see if any of the ones mom took are available to post.
> 
> Note to self: if you have a significant event in your life, HIRE A PHOTOGRAPHER!


What a gorgeous canopy! Do you keep it in your yard now? 
Years ago my dad filled in as the photographer at a friend's wedding. The hired photographer never showed up. My dad was a photo buff so he had a nice camera and also knew about composition.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Maysmom!
> 
> YOU ARE A GENIUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> ...


Bonbf3--Many's the time I can't quite think of the whole word I'm searching for but remember the first letter. I recently read an article about peplums, so it must have stuck in my head. Thanks for the cake!!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, here you guys go. This is my chupah (wedding canopy) and support. I designed the bases using plastic flower pots with inserts made of wood and PVC pipe for the poles to sit in. I only had a month between when my eyes healed after my final procedure and my wedding to crochet the flowers, so there weren't as many as I might have liked. Some of them were used in my bouquet. I also crocheted dh's buttonier (sp?), which I don't have a good pick of. The shimmery blue on the bottom of the bases were a last minute addition for weight. I didn't care if they didn't match. They seemed to be ok with the blue stripes of the talitzim. These talitzim belonged to my father and grandfather, who passed away a few months earlier (the week before my sis wedding). I was the first to be able to use this chupah. It was so special. And they didn't have the talitzim cleaned, so it smelled like grandpa! He was literally RIGHT OVER US! At least in part. That's how we viewed it, anyways.
> My sis mil sewed the talitzim together. It wasn't even complete and the side panels are held on by safety pins. Lol!
> 
> I wish I had better photos to show you. I gave many of the flowers away to our guests and others who helped out, though they were not able to be there. I also made more and supplied my set up for the wedding of a son's friend. It is all disassembled now, but one of the smaller pots is in granny's room with some of the flowers.
> ...


What wonderful ideas! When dsd got married, the floral arch they used was considered a substitute for a chuppah. DSIL did smash a glass wrapped in a napkin. They also have a framed ketubah hanging in their living room. Your crocheted flowers are lovely, and they'll last a whole lot longer than real flowers. Thanks for sharing, NC!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Those are excellent, NC! And a great way to share a lasting part of your ceremony with friends and guests.


Natureschampion said:


> Ok, here you guys go. This is my chupah (wedding canopy) and support. I designed the bases using plastic flower pots with inserts made of wood and PVC pipe for the poles to sit in. I only had a month between when my eyes healed after my final procedure and my wedding to crochet the flowers, so there weren't as many as I might have liked. Some of them were used in my bouquet. I also crocheted dh's buttonier (sp?), which I don't have a good pick of. The shimmery blue on the bottom of the bases were a last minute addition for weight. I didn't care if they didn't match. They seemed to be ok with the blue stripes of the talitzim. These talitzim belonged to my father and grandfather, who passed away a few months earlier (the week before my sis wedding). I was the first to be able to use this chupah. It was so special. And they didn't have the talitzim cleaned, so it smelled like grandpa! He was literally RIGHT OVER US! At least in part. That's how we viewed it, anyways.
> My sis mil sewed the talitzim together. It wasn't even complete and the side panels are held on by safety pins. Lol!
> 
> I wish I had better photos to show you. I gave many of the flowers away to our guests and others who helped out, though they were not able to be there. I also made more and supplied my set up for the wedding of a son's friend. It is all disassembled now, but one of the smaller pots is in granny's room with some of the flowers.
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> here is a newer version, the old one looks really mean but I do not want to dig it out right now.


The designer of this probably went on to design "Transformers" and some of those other modern villains.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That is so special! I bet you felt very blessed to do that for them.
> 
> I never make 2 of the same thing, I get too bored.  :wink:


I understand that. My brother-in-law made dining room chairs. He enjoyed the first two. By the sixth one, he said he'd had it!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> My youngest sister hated math in school, she got good grades but hated it with a passion. She eventually had her own business and became outstanding with numbers and now much enjoys solving math problems.


I was indifferent towards math until I got older. I think as we mature and our brain continues to make connections, we begin to see patterns in math and to understand how it works ( to some degree). That's why I think the new idea of trying to get 6-year olds to understand the commutative law, etc. is premature. It's with use that we get understanding. You can't expect a 6-year old brain to understand the reasoning behind math. Some of it doesn't come until college. I still don't understand what the heck imaginary numbers are, although my math family (husband, son, one daughter) try to explain it to me.

Imaginary numbers - please! What do you use them for? Paying your imaginary credit card bill!

It's fun to see young children understand something for the first time. I remember when we counted the class members. We'd count from left to right. Then I'd ask if it would be the same if we counted from right to left. They weren't sure! Really fun to take part in those aha moments.

One time we were using a number line. After a week of this, I asked them what was on the "other" side of zero. They were baffled. I said, "Don't tell anyone that I told you this because you're not supposed to learn this until third grade, BUT - there are numbers on the other side of zero. Sssshhhhh." Their eyes got big. So much fun - and they loved math. Then we talked a little bit about it.

The concept of infinity was fun, too. They got that one pretty fast.

Sorry to go on so. I miss that part of teaching - getting them interested, promoting the love of learning about things. Kids are naturally so curious - we just have to direct it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> since some people look down on knitting and sewing, when I am asked what I like to spend my time with, I answer, engineering. Well, with these activities one gets involved in thinking inside out, outside in, upside down, downside up, measuring in many ways, adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing, etc. it is engineering, it earns respect that way.


You are so right! I never thought of it that way. Very interesting.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, here you guys go. This is my chupah (wedding canopy) and support. I designed the bases using plastic flower pots with inserts made of wood and PVC pipe for the poles to sit in. I only had a month between when my eyes healed after my final procedure and my wedding to crochet the flowers, so there weren't as many as I might have liked. Some of them were used in my bouquet. I also crocheted dh's buttonier (sp?), which I don't have a good pick of. The shimmery blue on the bottom of the bases were a last minute addition for weight. I didn't care if they didn't match. They seemed to be ok with the blue stripes of the talitzim. These talitzim belonged to my father and grandfather, who passed away a few months earlier (the week before my sis wedding). I was the first to be able to use this chupah. It was so special. And they didn't have the talitzim cleaned, so it smelled like grandpa! He was literally RIGHT OVER US! At least in part. That's how we viewed it, anyways.
> My sis mil sewed the talitzim together. It wasn't even complete and the side panels are held on by safety pins. Lol!
> 
> I wish I had better photos to show you. I gave many of the flowers away to our guests and others who helped out, though they were not able to be there. I also made more and supplied my set up for the wedding of a son's friend. It is all disassembled now, but one of the smaller pots is in granny's room with some of the flowers.
> ...


So pretty - and it looks beautiful in the sunshine. I love the pots filled with flowers. Very joyful!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> He's great. I saw him on an Alfred Hitchcock Hour episode the other night.


Was he being funny on it? I thought his sit-coms were hilarious. And the ending of the second one - the best last show ever, I think.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Here's one more. Looking at them again, I don't know if I'm quite as proud as I was when I first created them. I need to see if any of the ones mom took are available to post.
> 
> Note to self: if you have a significant event in your life, HIRE A PHOTOGRAPHER!


The flowers are beautiful. You must have worked day and night to do all that!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> What a gorgeous canopy! Do you keep it in your yard now?
> Years ago my dad filled in as the photographer at a friend's wedding. The hired photographer never showed up. My dad was a photo buff so he had a nice camera and also knew about composition.


I can't imagine a photographer not showing up for a wedding - unless he died! His/her job is vital - they're not going to do the wedding a second time to get pictures.

My father was a photographer, and he did weddings. They were exhausting, especially because the equipment back then was heavy. And of course - the pressure. Those wedding pictures have to be perfect.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> The designer of this probably went on to design "Transformers" and some of those other modern villains.


Bonnie, you are so funny. I have three rufflers for my sewing machines. I use them often because I make a lot of clothing for little girls who loves ruffles and because ruffling by hand is very time consuming and tedious. Machine Rufflers make more uniform ruffles and pleats then what I can accomplish by hand.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bonnie, you are so funny. I have three rufflers for my sewing machines. I use them often because I make a lot of clothing for little girls who loves ruffles and because ruffling by hand is very time consuming and tedious. Machine Rufflers make more uniform ruffles and pleats then what I can accomplish by hand.


Hi, KPG! It's so nice to see you here!

I'm sure it's much more efficient, especially when you sew a lot. It did take forever to make the ruffle by hand. I don't even know if they had rufflers back then.

I never liked sewing. I got a D on my potholder in home ec. It would have been an F if my mother hadn't helped. She sewed beautifully and all the time! I just wasn't good at it. I only took on the project because my little girl wanted the dress. Like math, it was easier when I got older. I actually enjoyed it.

It must be fun making all those pretty little outfits. And the little girls who get them just love them, I know.

You've tamed the fearsome ruffler. I'm lucky to get the tension right and sew a straight seam without loops on the back!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that was a more commonly known term. A talis is a prayer shall. It is also pronounced "talit". Ashkenazi Jews (Eastern European) pronounce the same letter with an "s", that Sephardic (Spanish, Portuguese, middle eastern) Jews use a "t" sound for the letter, which is the proper phonetic sound for that letter in Hebrew. My grandpa was all about producing it with the "s", so that stuck, though my education was in Hebrew and I was taught to use the "t". I always found the way my gp pronounced things endearing.
> 
> I guess "talis" and luck would most likely go together at a bar mitzvah (when a youth becomes an adult and his given his/her first talis) or at a wedding (when a talis makes up the wedding canopy) and people will shout "MAZEL TOV!" And burst into a round of a celebratory song that I will not attempt to butcher with transliteration. "Mazel tov" is our term for "good luck", the word "tov" means "good" in Hebrew. "Mazel" is a Yiddish term that has something to do with the stars. I do not remember the exact phraseology for what "Mazel" means, but it seams to have something to do with fate.
> 
> And thank you so much for your words of encouragement. I am now inspired to share pictures of the chupah (wedding canopy) that I used at my wedding which was made up of my grandpa's and father's talitzim (plural for talis) and the cords and flowers I crocheted to embellish the poles that supported it. I have to see if the ones my sister sent are good enough. It was such a small and low key wedding, I never thought to hire a photographer! Lol!


Cookie - you will be tested on all of this by the end of the day.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I love petit point.


What is petit point and how is it different from the other stitches?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Hi, KPG! It's so nice to see you here!
> 
> I'm sure it's much more efficient, especially when you sew a lot. It did take forever to make the ruffle by hand. I don't even know if they had rufflers back then.
> 
> ...


Ooops, didn't pay attention to the thread. I searched your posts to answer something I hadn't, and caught the one about rufflers.

Later - don't want anything to do with this thread; another Liberal thread highlighting their hypocrisy.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ooops, didn't pay attention to the thread. I searched your posts to answer something I hadn't, and caught the one about rufflers.
> 
> Later - don't want anything to do with this thread.


OOOO. This thread is so harmful. Will rename it the Ebola thread.

Nature - your chuppa was beautiful. May you never use it again.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Cheery zinnias. A bouquet to you.


damemary
THANK YOU. So kind of you.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Funny that I would stumble across this today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/why-do-americans-stink-at-math.html?WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_id=NYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0731-L30&nl=el&nlid=44163718&_r=0


bonbf3 said:


> I was indifferent towards math until I got older. I think as we mature and our brain continues to make connections, we begin to see patterns in math and to understand how it works ( to some degree). That's why I think the new idea of trying to get 6-year olds to understand the commutative law, etc. is premature. It's with use that we get understanding. You can't expect a 6-year old brain to understand the reasoning behind math. Some of it doesn't come until college. I still don't understand what the heck imaginary numbers are, although my math family (husband, son, one daughter) try to explain it to me.
> 
> Imaginary numbers - please! What do you use them for? Paying your imaginary credit card bill!
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> OOOO. This thread is so harmful. Will rename it the Ebola thread.
> 
> Nature - your chuppa was beautiful. May you never use it again.


You know why. LOL, the lack of self control, not the chuppa and reusing it. Would one reuse it?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Why in the world would people look down on you for that? Those are very rare skills to have. The people who can go beyond making a dishcloth are even rarer. What do they do, solve nuclear equations? Brain surgery? The people who look down on it are the ones who can't do it and have a modicum of creative thinking, at best.
> 
> You are completely right that these gifts should be respected every bit as much as being able to solve tough equations. That's what it is. That's what it teaches us to do. To be able to create something from nothing IS engineering, you are right. But it goes beyond that and should be respected on its own. IMO.


Natureschampion
I am not saying looking down on me, many people, particularly those who never create anything, poo poo knitting in particular. They think that knitting is only for old folks whereas there are many very young individuals who create fabulous knitted items. Those putting down the work of others are simply jealous of those who have some skills. Have we not seen that around here?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> You know why. LOL, the lack of self control, not the chuppa and reusing it. Would one reuse it?


Only if she remarries. And we certainly don't want that to happen to Our Nature.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> What is petit point and how is it different from the other stitches?


It is very fine needlepoint. smaller squares, thinner thread, and smaller needle. Very fine work - very beautiful.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, here you guys go. This is my chupah (wedding canopy) and support. I designed the bases using plastic flower pots with inserts made of wood and PVC pipe for the poles to sit in. I only had a month between when my eyes healed after my final procedure and my wedding to crochet the flowers, so there weren't as many as I might have liked. Some of them were used in my bouquet. I also crocheted dh's buttonier (sp?), which I don't have a good pick of. The shimmery blue on the bottom of the bases were a last minute addition for weight. I didn't care if they didn't match. They seemed to be ok with the blue stripes of the talitzim. These talitzim belonged to my father and grandfather, who passed away a few months earlier (the week before my sis wedding). I was the first to be able to use this chupah. It was so special. And they didn't have the talitzim cleaned, so it smelled like grandpa! He was literally RIGHT OVER US! At least in part. That's how we viewed it, anyways.
> My sis mil sewed the talitzim together. It wasn't even complete and the side panels are held on by safety pins. Lol!
> 
> I wish I had better photos to show you. I gave many of the flowers away to our guests and others who helped out, though they were not able to be there. I also made more and supplied my set up for the wedding of a son's friend. It is all disassembled now, but one of the smaller pots is in granny's room with some of the flowers.
> ...


Natureschampion
now that is being very creative. A wedding is something special and yours was EXTRA special. No one else has had such a unique setting. Very nice. And I love the flowers.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Hi, KPG! It's so nice to see you here!
> 
> I'm sure it's much more efficient, especially when you sew a lot. It did take forever to make the ruffle by hand. I don't even know if they had rufflers back then.
> 
> ...


bonbf3
you may take 2 hours of basic sewing sometime. You will be surprised how much you learn and how much more fun sewing by machine will be. The loops have to do with tension setting, easy to correct.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> What is petit point and how is it different from the other stitches?


SQM
Petit point is miniature needlepoint. The stitches are MUCH smaller then needlepoint. VERY tedious. I will take a picture of something in needlepoint and petit point and show you. Give me a day or so.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Petit point is miniature needlepoint. The stitches are MUCH smaller then needlepoint. VERY tedious. I will take a picture of something in needlepoint and petit point and show you. Give me a day or so.


Thanks Huckle. Look forward to the pics.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ooops, didn't pay attention to the thread. I searched your posts to answer something I hadn't, and caught the one about rufflers.
> 
> Later - don't want anything to do with this thread; another Liberal thread highlighting their hypocrisy.


See you later then!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Funny that I would stumble across this today.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/magazine/why-do-americans-stink-at-math.html?WT.mc_ev=click&WT.mc_id=NYT-E-I-NYT-E-AT-0731-L30&nl=el&nlid=44163718&_r=0


This is an excellent article. I especially like this part:

"She knew there must be a way to tap into what students already understood and then build on it. In her classroom, she replaced I, We, You with a structure you might call You, Yall, We. Rather than starting each lesson by introducing the main idea to be learned that day, she assigned a single problem of the day, designed to let students struggle toward it  first on their own (You), then in peer groups (Yall) and finally as a whole class (We). The result was a process that replaced answer-getting with what Lampert called sense-making. By pushing students to talk about math, she invited them to share the misunderstandings most American students keep quiet until the test. In the process, she gave them an opportunity to realize, on their own, why their answers were wrong."

It is so true that teachers are constantly having to use new methods, without the time to learn them. You must be secure in your subject if you're going to teach it.

We had a fantastic math program where I taught. We used it for about 3-5 years, then spent another 3/4 million dollars on a new one. This is constant in the field of education. Also terrible is teaching the standard instead of teaching the child.

Teacher training AND leadership training need a HUGE overhaul - at least in my county, considered to be excellent in education.

I should get off this soapbox. What's happening today is very sad and is leading to the demise of public education, a necessity for our form of government.

Thanks so much for posting this article. I'm saving it to read again.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> you may take 2 hours of basic sewing sometime. You will be surprised how much you learn and how much more fun sewing by machine will be. The loops have to do with tension setting, easy to correct.


I know it was the tension, I just couldn't get it fixed.

I have my sewing machine back, and I have ideas for some things I'd like to make. Just not the time. Right now I'm taking a break from sanding a kiddie rocking chair. I've painted three for our younger grandchildren, and I have four to go. I tried spraying on a glitter paint. Never again! It was too rough for sweet little baby legs, so I'm sanding it off to and will paint with glossy acrylic. Electric sander started acting up, so I'm doing it the old fashioned way.

I'd better get back to it before it gets too hot outside. It's been a beautiful morning - but going up to 88 here.

If you have young grandchildren, these chairs are worth the effort. My daughter has kept them outside for a couple of years, and the weather didn't bother them. The kids still use them - bring them inside to play with them. It was a good project. If you like that kind of thing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> What wonderful ideas! When dsd got married, the floral arch they used was considered a substitute for a chuppah. DSIL did smash a glass wrapped in a napkin. They also have a framed ketubah hanging in their living room. Your crocheted flowers are lovely, and they'll last a whole lot longer than real flowers. Thanks for sharing, NC!


The ketubah should hang in the bedroom if they want to be legal.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> See you later then!


You can see ruffles made on a ruffler in the corset and twirl skirt in the set shown on page 1 and also in the outfit shown on page 2 of this thread. The skirt on page 2 is a very full circle skirt with a very very long ruffle I made to finish as I wanted it and a great example of a ruffler made ruffle.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-203379-1.html

Sorry for the interruption, but just remembered these examples of machine made ruffles I posted awhile ago.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You can see ruffles made on a ruffler in the corset and twirl skirt in the set shown on page 1 and also in the outfit shown on page 3 of this thread.
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-203379-1.html
> 
> Sorry for the interruption, but just remembered these examples of machine made ruffles I posted awhile ago.


Not an interruption at all. The machine makes nice ruffles! I love both outfits. The pink is a beautiful shade. The ensemble is a dream outfit for some lucky little girl! All the colors and ruffles - wow!

I'm glad little girls like to dress "fancy" nowadays. I remember the first time I saw a little girl in black. I was surprised. She looked pretty, but I like bright.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Here's one more. Looking at them again, I don't know if I'm quite as proud as I was when I first created them. I need to see if any of the ones mom took are available to post.
> 
> Note to self: if you have a significant event in your life, HIRE A PHOTOGRAPHER!


But not a florist. Your chuppah is just beautiful, and the crocheted flowers all over make it especially charming. You're very creative.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Not an interruption at all. The machine makes nice ruffles! I love both outfits. The pink is a beautiful shade. The ensemble is a dream outfit for some lucky little girl! All the colors and ruffles - wow!
> 
> I'm glad little girls like to dress "fancy" nowadays. I remember the first time I saw a little girl in black. I was surprised. She looked pretty, but I like bright.


Sorry for my mistake, Bonnie. Check out page 2 (not 3) for the best view of a ruffler ruffle (on the circle skirt - 2nd photo on that page).

and thanks!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sorry for my mistake, Bonnie. Check out page 2 (not 3) for the best view of a ruffler ruffle (on the circle skirt).


Doing that now!

What a darling outfit! I remember circular skirts - twirling in them was so much fun. I had a couple.

Thanks for sharing, KPG. I love your choice of colors.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I was indifferent towards math until I got older. I think as we mature and our brain continues to make connections, we begin to see patterns in math and to understand how it works ( to some degree). That's why I think the new idea of trying to get 6-year olds to understand the commutative law, etc. is premature. It's with use that we get understanding. You can't expect a 6-year old brain to understand the reasoning behind math. Some of it doesn't come until college. I still don't understand what the heck imaginary numbers are, although my math family (husband, son, one daughter) try to explain it to me.
> 
> Imaginary numbers - please! What do you use them for? Paying your imaginary credit card bill!
> 
> ...


The real problem with kids' learning math that early is that the language gets in the way. Words like "commutative" or "distributive" are just obstacles.

Imaginary numbers only seem useless because most of us do fine with addition, multiplication, and sometimes square roots, but physicists use them a whole lot. The point of teaching them to young people is to show how the ideas of arithmetic can be extended by adding a single new detail. So even though in real life the number -1 can't have a square root, if we assume it does we get a whole new system of numbers.

Patterns are patterns, and even imaginary things can have patterns. Okay, now I'm exhausted.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> What is petit point and how is it different from the other stitches?


Petit point is to other stitches as petit fours are to other cookies.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> you may take 2 hours of basic sewing sometime. You will be surprised how much you learn and how much more fun sewing by machine will be. The loops have to do with tension setting, easy to correct.


The loops usually are the result of sewing without putting the presser foot lever down, which you might forget to do if you're sewing something thick. Ask me how I know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> This is an excellent article. I especially like this part:
> 
> "She knew there must be a way to tap into what students already understood and then build on it. In her classroom, she replaced I, We, You with a structure you might call You, Yall, We. Rather than starting each lesson by introducing the main idea to be learned that day, she assigned a single problem of the day, designed to let students struggle toward it  first on their own (You), then in peer groups (Yall) and finally as a whole class (We). The result was a process that replaced answer-getting with what Lampert called sense-making. By pushing students to talk about math, she invited them to share the misunderstandings most American students keep quiet until the test. In the process, she gave them an opportunity to realize, on their own, why their answers were wrong."
> 
> ...


Bonnie, I bet you were a wonderful teacher, and a successful one, too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The real problem with kids' learning math that early is that the language gets in the way. Words like "commutative" or "distributive" are just obstacles.
> 
> Imaginary numbers only seem useless because most of us do fine with addition, multiplication, and sometimes square roots, but physicists use them a whole lot. The point of teaching them to young people is to show how the ideas of arithmetic can be extended by adding a single new detail. So even though in real life the number -1 can't have a square root, if we assume it does we get a whole new system of numbers.
> 
> Patterns are patterns, and even imaginary things can have patterns. Okay, now I'm exhausted.


I was just kidding about the imaginary numbers. I don't understand them, but I know they serve some kind of purpose. My husband and two of our kids have studied a lot of math. I had trouble with long division. My one daughter said she didn't need to take notes in calculus because it made sense. Ooooookay! They got their math minds from their dad.

I've mentioned this book before, but you might find it interesting. It's called Struck by Genius, and it's about a man who suffered a head injury and woke up with math skills he'd never had before. He also sees patterns in everything. He was on tv, and he seems like such a nice guy - very excited about his gift, which he called acquired savantism. If you like math, you may find this book fascinating. I sure did.

When young, he was a 'player" - went to bars every night, lots of ladies, no interest at all in academics, etc. After the accident and a few years of adjustment and many obstacles to overcome, he became obsessed with mathematics, went to college, met his wife, and is happily married. He also does amazing art, drawing the patterns he sees. It's a great story.

If you can't get the book, I think he's also on Youtube. I'll check. His name is Jason Padgett.

Found it:
This video is great - he's such a nice guy, and this tells you a lot.





This is a short one. The first one is better.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Seems almost like wearing the same wedding dress. 


SQM said:


> Only if she remarries. And we certainly don't want that to happen to Our Nature.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I was just kidding about the imaginary numbers. I don't understand them, but I know they serve some kind of purpose. My husband and two of our kids have studied a lot of math. I had trouble with long division. My one daughter said she didn't need to take notes in calculus because it made sense. Ooooookay! They got their math minds from their dad.
> 
> I've mentioned this book before, but you might find it interesting. It's called Struck by Genius, and it's about a man who suffered a head injury and woke up with math skills he'd never had before. He also sees patterns in everything. He was on tv, and he seems like such a nice guy - very excited about his gift, which he called acquired savantism. If you like math, you may find this book fascinating. I sure did.
> 
> ...


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The ketubah should hang in the bedroom if they want to be legal.


They aren't THAT devout, lol.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Bonnie, I bet you were a wonderful teacher, and a successful one, too.


Thank you, Purl! I only taught for five years and started in my fifties. I had friends who had taught for 30 years, and they could teach circles around me. I went in early and stayed late - so did most of the first grade teachers. Some of those teachers could manage a Fortune 500 company from home!

I left when standardized testing put so much pressure on students and teachers - and administrators - that I felt I wasn't doing right by the children. We were data collectors, documenting everything. Then I got shingles from stress and decided that was my last year. I used to say I was yesterday's teacher.

I believe that school should be a happy place. Children spend hours there every day - it should be a good time. The first two years, we put on plays to teach about the different versions of stories, invited parents and had cookies. We had literature circles at the end of the year. We spent a day outside on the nature trail and went in only for lunch - that was fun! We planted seeds outside. It was great. We also had reading groups - even that can be so interesting. Then the big push for standardized testing made it impossible to use that approach. There wasn't time. It was sad. These are children, for pete's sake. They should love school.

I'm lucky to have so many grandchildren so I still have the fun of reading to them and learning with them. But I miss teaching - having a classroom and being in a school setting - and probably always will. I had great support at the school and a wonderful principal, too.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> here a couple things I made. Had not used the Ruffler for the sewing machine for so long and decided it was time to put it to work and see if I could still manage it. So a Pillow was created, it was much easier than I thought and now I want to duplicate that Pillow in knit. Will have to knit up a l o n g strip. The Rug I designed and intended it to be regular needlepoint but when it was done, some of the Canvas showed and so I went over the whole thing and turned the needlepoint into cross stitch. I use it on top of an antique Cedar Chest coming from my husband's family in Pennsylvania.


You did such professional work on both projects. I really like the way you finished around the edges of the rug. Thank you for letting us see them.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay, now I'm driving myself crazy. Maybe you can help me with something. I made a very fancy dress for my daughter when she was seven. It was like a costume - ruffled at the bottom.
> 
> It had a fitted waist, and the bodice extended below the waist with a flared bottom with a ruffle. Does anyone know what that's called? I think it starts with a p, but all I can think of is pinafore and placket. I'm stuck on placket and can't think of what it was.
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You did such professional work on both projects. I really like the way you finished around the edges of the rug. Thank you for letting us see them.


MarilynKnits
thank you very much. Sometimes it takes a few tries to get the finish to my liking. Initially I had fringes on the ends but did not like it at all. The edge of the ruffles on the Pillow was done on a Serger with a narrow and dense stitch, which gives it a nice finish and some body.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

ute4kp said:


> What a gorgeous canopy! Do you keep it in your yard now?
> Years ago my dad filled in as the photographer at a friend's wedding. The hired photographer never showed up. My dad was a photo buff so he had a nice camera and also knew about composition.


No, it's not. The canopy is now a family heirloom that will be used at my sibs weddings and other generations as well. It is quite special and would only be used for such ceremonies. I would love to make cords and flowers to put outside. Any suggestions for what to use?

My mom is a professional photographer, but she was also a guest. She didn't think about hiring someone either. She did get a lot of great pics, but I don't know how to get them on here.

BTW, does anyone know of a way to waterproof the cords and/or flowers? They are mainly acrylic, but there is some wool and cotton in there as well.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> What wonderful ideas! When dsd got married, the floral arch they used was considered a substitute for a chuppah. DSIL did smash a glass wrapped in a napkin. They also have a framed ketubah hanging in their living room. Your crocheted flowers are lovely, and they'll last a whole lot longer than real flowers. Thanks for sharing, NC!


That sounds beautiful! We didn't have a Jewish wedding, no ketubah. We did smash a glass, which my dad subsequently threw away, not realizing I wanted to keep it. Lol! Such a man!

That was the whole point. I don't like cut flowers, as to me they are a waste bc they don't last. This way I always have them and can share them as well. Thanks for letting me share!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> Petit point is miniature needlepoint. The stitches are MUCH smaller then needlepoint. VERY tedious. I will take a picture of something in needlepoint and petit point and show you. Give me a day or so.


I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.

Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I was indifferent towards math until I got older. I think as we mature and our brain continues to make connections, we begin to see patterns in math and to understand how it works ( to some degree). That's why I think the new idea of trying to get 6-year olds to understand the commutative law, etc. is premature. It's with use that we get understanding. You can't expect a 6-year old brain to understand the reasoning behind math. Some of it doesn't come until college. I still don't understand what the heck imaginary numbers are, although my math family (husband, son, one daughter) try to explain it to me.
> 
> Imaginary numbers - please! What do you use them for? Paying your imaginary credit card bill!
> 
> ...


Don't apologize. I love reading about your experiences.

I think if they presented math as it applied to the real world, more people would get it. It wasn't until I used it in the context of my crafts and farming that I started to understand and appreciate it.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> The flowers are beautiful. You must have worked day and night to do all that!


Haha, in the last 2 weeks I did! Fortunately, granny was with her DIL or daughter for most of the month leading up to the wedding, so I had a little more time than usual. I was working on the cords up until we arrived at the courtyard where our ceremony was held. By the time I was done, I was making the flowers in record time and couldn't use my thumb for 2 weeks! There was a little bit of nerve damage in the tip from pressing it against the crochet hook. Lol! My first crafting injury. I was so proud. Lol.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Cookie - you will be tested on all of this by the end of the day.


And there will be a chance for extra credit-critical thinking short essay on why there is a difference between Ashkenazi and Sephardic traditions. Lol!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> OOOO. This thread is so harmful. Will rename it the Ebola thread.
> 
> Nature - your chuppa was beautiful. May you never use it again.


Thanks! I don't plan on it! Oh wait, yes i do! When we renew our vows!! I do look forward to seeing my bro and sis under it at their respective weddings. And who knows, maybe they will ask me to crochet flowers and cords for them, too! I don't know if I told you guys this, but a friend used my set up and I crocheted more flowers for her sons wedding. She made a chuppah at a ladies weekend with beautiful embroidered pomegranates and sayings from the book of Ruth. It was quite beautiful.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> You know why. LOL, the lack of self control, not the chuppa and reusing it. Would one reuse it?


Only if they were getting married again, or renewing their vows. My parents will renew theirs in 2 years, but this will be their first time under THIS particular chupah.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> But not a florist. Your chuppah is just beautiful, and the crocheted flowers all over make it especially charming. You're very creative.


Thanks!

One night, dh got me a set of crochet hooks. By noon the next day was crocheting flowers. I was so excited bc I finally found what I was going to replace the traditional cut flowers with. It was far less expensive as well! I had the most amazing time doing them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I should add that all those activities I mentioned using in my classroom were teaching techniques, used to teach reading, math, and science. It wasn't just play - it just felt like it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


Very nice! What a clever idea - to make it look like granny squares. I'll bet your son loved the bear.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Don't apologize. I love reading about your experiences.
> 
> I think if they presented math as it applied to the real world, more people would get it. It wasn't until I used it in the context of my crafts and farming that I started to understand and appreciate it.


Yes!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Only if she remarries. And we certainly don't want that to happen to Our Nature.


Thanks SQ, I don't either! But I can use it when I renew my vows. And hopefully by that time my cantor, whom I am very fond of, will be able to perform a ceremony for mixed marriages. As it was she did participate as much as she could without stepping on the toes of conservative Jewish principals. It was very important to her to be a part of it, even if she couldn't officiate. She did the "yiverechechah" (priestly benediction) and sang "l,chi lach" (Debbie freedman) which she didn't know I had sang as part of my d'var at my bat mitzvah. It was so special!!! 
She is trying to get the United Synagogues to recognize and allow mixed marriages.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Haha, in the last 2 weeks I did! Fortunately, granny was with her DIL or daughter for most of the month leading up to the wedding, so I had a little more time than usual. I was working on the cords up until we arrived at the courtyard where our ceremony was held. By the time I was done, I was making the flowers in record time and couldn't use my thumb for 2 weeks! There was a little bit of nerve damage in the tip from pressing it against the crochet hook. Lol! My first crafting injury. I was so proud. Lol.


It was for a good cause!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I should add that all those activities I mentioned using in my classroom were teaching techniques, used to teach reading, math, and science. It wasn't just play - it just felt like it!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> I am not saying looking down on me, many people, particularly those who never create anything, poo poo knitting in particular. They think that knitting is only for old folks whereas there are many very young individuals who create fabulous knitted items. Those putting down the work of others are simply jealous of those who have some skills. Have we not seen that around here?


Totally. But I don't think you should feel that you need to "hide" your abilities. Yes, knitting is like engineering. But it's NOT engineering. I had a professor who I still talk to and told him about my learning to knit and crochet. This man is one of none smarted people I've ever known. He told me that his wife does it and it amazes him, how after all these years he still can't figure it out and has so much respect for people who can do it.

There are many "old folks" who create wonderful garments and whatnot as well. I know a woman who will knit something that someone ordered from another company. BEAUTIFUL work. Very exquisite. I hope to have her abilities one day.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Seems almost like wearing the same wedding dress.


It's not, though. The chupah has so much more meaning and represents the home and new family that the couple is creating. I guess the "bad juju" of the first marriage could still be considered to be there, but we make what we want of "luck". I guess it's a personal preference.

If I had had the option of getting married under the chupah I did the first Tim 10 years ago, I would have bc it had a nice meaning and was the chupah everyone in my generation was getting married under. As it was, it was spitefully kept from me, which actually turned out for the better bc this one was MUCH more special.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I was just kidding about the imaginary numbers. I don't understand them, but I know they serve some kind of purpose. My husband and two of our kids have studied a lot of math. I had trouble with long division. My one daughter said she didn't need to take notes in calculus because it made sense. Ooooookay! They got their math minds from their dad.
> 
> I've mentioned this book before, but you might find it interesting. It's called Struck by Genius, and it's about a man who suffered a head injury and woke up with math skills he'd never had before. He also sees patterns in everything. He was on tv, and he seems like such a nice guy - very excited about his gift, which he called acquired savantism. If you like math, you may find this book fascinating. I sure did.
> 
> ...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, Purl! I only taught for five years and started in my fifties. I had friends who had taught for 30 years, and they could teach circles around me. I went in early and stayed late - so did most of the first grade teachers. Some of those teachers could manage a Fortune 500 company from home!
> 
> I left when standardized testing put so much pressure on students and teachers - and administrators - that I felt I wasn't doing right by the children. We were data collectors, documenting everything. Then I got shingles from stress and decided that was my last year. I used to say I was yesterday's teacher.
> 
> ...


When I was a kid, standardized tests were only used as ways to gauge what kids knew and how to improve their education. It's not like that anymore. Now it is to test how the teacher teaches, which it is not a good indicator of that. The schools who score higher get the more money? How does that make any sense? They are the ones who generally have the funds FOR the proper education. Teachers will even send kids they think won't perform well home in order to boost their numbers. These tests are a great disservice to kids and teachers.

It seems most teachers feel the way you do. They are unionized, can't they go on strike until they do away with these stupid tests and NCLB? It all just seems so counterproductive.

I like how you taught. I would say "there should be more teachers like you", but I know the are and they are just not ALLOWED to teach in such a creative and productive fashion. It is a shame.

The only reason I would want children is to be able to teach them. Lol!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


MarilynKnits
Thank you for sharing.
I love both of your creations. Heirlooms for sure. You took wonderful care of them and I hope others will do likewise. Do you ever figure out how many hours you spent on something? Nobody could ever pay a fair price for any of them and that is the reason I never sell anything rather gift it to somebody who I know will appreciate it. That reminds me of a wedding gift I made. What do you give someone who can afford to buy anything? Well, I had 1 1/2 years notice and hooked a rug a little longer than the one I showed and a little more narrow. I did it in off white and put the initials of the Bride and Groom as well as the wedding date into it in a soft gold. It was well loved, so much so that when they divorced I was asked if I could alter the initials to the new Groom's and the dates when she got married again. Well of course I could. They were very kind and chose the same date as the first time and I only had to change his initial and the year. Yes, yes, they divorced as well and she loved the rug so much that I was again asked to make some changes when her new love entered her live for a third try. His initials were the same as #2, so was the date and only the year needed to be changed. Well, #3 is still intact and should another split happen, I for sure will take out the initials and dates and simply put in a couple of wedding bands. You know, I did not mind the changes. this piece was appreciated so much that I would keep on making changes. I will however NEVER again insert initials or dates on anything. Once, two, three times is enough.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for sharing! That's quite interesting.


Glad you liked it. I found it interesting, too. Quite an upbeat guy.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I was just kidding about the imaginary numbers. I don't understand them, but I know they serve some kind of purpose. My husband and two of our kids have studied a lot of math. I had trouble with long division. My one daughter said she didn't need to take notes in calculus because it made sense. Ooooookay! They got their math minds from their dad.
> 
> I've mentioned this book before, but you might find it interesting. It's called Struck by Genius, and it's about a man who suffered a head injury and woke up with math skills he'd never had before. He also sees patterns in everything. He was on tv, and he seems like such a nice guy - very excited about his gift, which he called acquired savantism. If you like math, you may find this book fascinating. I sure did.
> 
> ...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, Purl! I only taught for five years and started in my fifties. I had friends who had taught for 30 years, and they could teach circles around me. I went in early and stayed late - so did most of the first grade teachers. Some of those teachers could manage a Fortune 500 company from home!
> 
> I left when standardized testing put so much pressure on students and teachers - and administrators - that I felt I wasn't doing right by the children. We were data collectors, documenting everything. Then I got shingles from stress and decided that was my last year. I used to say I was yesterday's teacher.
> 
> ...


When I was a kid, standardized tests were only used as ways to gauge what kids knew and how to improve their education. It's not like that anymore. Now it is to test how the teacher teaches, which it is not a good indicator of that. The schools who score higher get the more money? How does that make any sense? They are the ones who generally have the funds FOR the proper education. Teachers will even send kids they think won't perform well home in order to boost their numbers. These tests are a great disservice to kids and teachers.

It seems most teachers feel the way you do. They are unionized, can't they go on strike until they do away with these stupid tests and NCLB? It all just seems so counterproductive.

I like how you taught. I would say "there should be more teachers like you", but I know the are and they are just not ALLOWED to teach in such a creative and productive fashion. It is a shame.

The only reason I would want children is to be able to teach them. Lol!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


Very cool!!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I should add that all those activities I mentioned using in my classroom were teaching techniques, used to teach reading, math, and science. It wasn't just play - it just felt like it!


I knew what you were saying. My mom taught us in a similar fashion. We remember and learn better when things are fun and interesting.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> When I was a kid, standardized tests were only used as ways to gauge what kids knew and how to improve their education. It's not like that anymore. Now it is to test how the teacher teaches, which it is not a good indicator of that. The schools who score higher get the more money? How does that make any sense? They are the ones who generally have the funds FOR the proper education. Teachers will even send kids they think won't perform well home in order to boost their numbers. These tests are a great disservice to kids and teachers.
> 
> It seems most teachers feel the way you do. They are unionized, can't they go on strike until they do away with these stupid tests and NCLB? It all just seems so counterproductive.
> 
> ...


We're not unionized in Georgia. I think the problem is that schools went to a "business model" a few years ago. They even called students and parents "customers" for a while. They want no-frills efficiency and competition among the schools - even among the teachers! That's so counter-productive. Teachers have always shared ideas and materials. We had a case where the principal asked a teacher who had the highest scores to share what she did. Nobody knew who it was - and nobody shared. Competition isn't always the best way to success.
It certainly hasn't helped our schools.

They've become so hard-nosed that they've taken rest time and home living out of kindergarten. Five-year-olds are expected to spend their seven hours reading, writing, and doing math. Talk about sucking all the life out of school. My grandsons went to a school last year where they had NO recess. PE once a week - in third grade. This is bad.

Also, data collection has become a religion. Just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should. Collect data, compare data, base passing to the next grade on one test. Just so wrong. I learned that when I was in college many years ago. Also, dotting i's and crossing t's saves administrators time formerly spent observing - and helping - teachers! I had an assistant principal walk into my room to observe, walk up to the reading table, receive a message on her walkie-talkie, turn around and leave the room - and give me an evaluation on that. She'd checked the box. That's all she had to do. That was completely useless.

Off my soapbox! I get so worked up over this that I seldom read anything about the schools in the newspaper. Too depressing. It's gone so far off the rails that I don't know how they'll ever fix it. The only hope I see is to return the running of the schools to the states and counties. Our country is too big for a one size fits all plan. In my opinion.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> It's not, though. The chupah has so much more meaning and represents the home and new family that the couple is creating. I guess the "bad juju" of the first marriage could still be considered to be there, but we make what we want of "luck". I guess it's a personal preference.
> 
> If I had had the option of getting married under the chupah I did the first Tim 10 years ago, I would have bc it had a nice meaning and was the chupah everyone in my generation was getting married under. As it was, it was spitefully kept from me, which actually turned out for the better bc this one was MUCH more special.


Our wedding was one of the last in the synagogue my husband's grandfather helped establish. My in-laws were the first couple to be married there. We used the same chuppa as my in-laws had used. Sadly, my husband's grandfather passed away 6 months before our wedding and his grandmother 4 months before. Somehow having the ceremony there made us feel as if their spirits were there with us.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Marilyn - I love your rug, and petit point bear. I like the rug pattern and your edging. I have been out with Pat for awhile so didn't get a chance to remark on what a lovely job you did. I am so glad to see that there are one or two at least of you posting your pictures. We all have talents of different kinds. 


Huck - I just checked my machine and I have a ruffler- will have to try it once life settles down a bit here.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> We're not unionized in Georgia. I think the problem is that schools went to a "business model" a few years ago. They even called students and parents "customers" for a while. They want no-frills efficiency and competition among the schools - even among the teachers! That's so counter-productive. Teachers have always shared ideas and materials. We had a case where the principal asked a teacher who had the highest scores to share what she did. Nobody knew who it was - and nobody shared. Competition isn't always the best way to success.
> It certainly hasn't helped our schools.
> 
> They've become so hard-nosed that they've taken rest time and home living out of kindergarten. Five-year-olds are expected to spend their seven hours reading, writing, and doing math. Talk about sucking all the life out of school. My grandsons went to a school last year where they had NO recess. PE once a week - in third grade. This is bad.
> ...


=======
I am not sure whether we have exactly the same situation here. My GD is taking French Immersion and is very bright. She is quiet and loves school. I do get upset when I realize that writing skills are not requred any more though. Cursive is no longer taught in the early grades here. It is all printed word. I remember the wonderful handwriting from my Nana, and Parents, not so much me, as I am very very left handed and never was a good writer. My sister is a beautiful writer. Now Hayley has never learned to write - only print. Sad.

I will talk to my son but she is in a small school and there is a very good feeling there. She speaks French fluently. In grade one it was English in the Mornings and French only in the afternoons (or the other way around). Grade two it was 3 days a week in French only and 2 in English and over the 4 years they speak only French. As French is our second language in Canada, it is a good thing for her to know.

My dil has to be fluent in French for her job (flight Attendant with Air Canada) so they speak french to each other when they are by themselves. Her math skills are very good from what I can see. I have heard complaints about the way Teachers are expected to teach here however. Will check it out.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> We're not unionized in Georgia. I think the problem is that schools went to a "business model" a few years ago. They even called students and parents "customers" for a while. They want no-frills efficiency and competition among the schools - even among the teachers! That's so counter-productive. Teachers have always shared ideas and materials. We had a case where the principal asked a teacher who had the highest scores to share what she did. Nobody knew who it was - and nobody shared. Competition isn't always the best way to success.
> It certainly hasn't helped our schools.
> 
> They've become so hard-nosed that they've taken rest time and home living out of kindergarten. Five-year-olds are expected to spend their seven hours reading, writing, and doing math. Talk about sucking all the life out of school. My grandsons went to a school last year where they had NO recess. PE once a week - in third grade. This is bad.
> ...


I'm with you, Bonnie. It's why I won't go into education. It all makes me sick, sad, and worried about the future of society. These kids are going to be the ones making our laws one day, or voting for the people who make our laws. Never get off your soapbox when it comes to educations. It is far too important for people to ignore, which is what's happening. TEACHERS should decide what should be taught and how. THEY are on the front lines, so to speak. Demographics have a lot to do with how a child should learn. There is no "one size fits all" for education, other than that it should be enjoyable for both the students and teachers. I had so much fun in school. Well, except when it came to math. Lol. Though I did enjoy it up until precalc, which I didn't have a good teacher. My teacher for AP statistics (which like geometry uses math but I don't think either are specifically math) in high school couldn't get through to me. When I took honors statistics in college, I got an "A" bc the teacher was so good at what he did.

What about the kids who are being raised not to hear the word "no"? That has me very worried. Very worried indeed.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Our wedding was one of the last in the synagogue my husband's grandfather helped establish. My in-laws were the first couple to be married there. We used the same chuppa as my in-laws had used. Sadly, my husband's grandfather passed away 6 months before our wedding and his grandmother 4 months before. Somehow having the ceremony there made us feel as if their spirits were there with us.


Doesnt it make you sad when synagogues have to close their doors? The guns gouge I belonged to as a younger child was absorbed by the one my family belongs to now. Since then, most of the conservative synagogues in OC have followed the same path. I think ours may be the only one left.

I totally understand that. My gp passed a week before my sis wedding and less than 4 months before mine. She didn't use the same chupah as I, bc she was "allowed" to use the family chuppah that was made from my moms and aunts shared wedding dress. Dh ( who was very close to grandpa)!and I felt as though grandpa was actually THERE, as his talis we used was not cleaned and still smelled like him. We also had the siddur his rabbi had given him at his bar mitzvah. My mom placed it in one of the flower pots. I will see if she has the pic in a format I can share. It was really quite special.

My wedding was so perfect, albeit small and simple. My rabbi and cantor couldn't perform the ceremony, as they are conservative and my dh is not Jewish. Instead, a judge who is a friend of the family (his wife's parents had been best friends with my grandparents since their kids were very young) officiated and it was wonderful. The cantor did participate, which was very important to her. When she walked into the room I was getting ready in, she started to cry. She is such an amazing woman and I love her dearly.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> =======
> I am not sure whether we have exactly the same situation here. My GD is taking French Immersion and is very bright. She is quiet and loves school. I do get upset when I realize that writing skills are not requred any more though. Cursive is no longer taught in the early grades here. It is all printed word. I remember the wonderful handwriting from my Nana, and Parents, not so much me, as I am very very left handed and never was a good writer. My sister is a beautiful writer. Now Hayley has never learned to write - only print. Sad.
> 
> I will talk to my son but she is in a small school and there is a very good feeling there. She speaks French fluently. In grade one it was English in the Mornings and French only in the afternoons (or the other way around). Grade two it was 3 days a week in French only and 2 in English and over the 4 years they speak only French. As French is our second language in Canada, it is a good thing for her to know.
> ...


One of the problems with US education is that children are not taught a second language. This makes it more difficult to learn a new one when they are older. It is very important bc languages help so much with other learning and development, not to mention that it is incredibly egocentric to think they only need to learn English.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


Blurry shmurry. It looks cute anyway, and we'll take your word that it's petit point. The rug is beautiful.


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> =======
> I am not sure whether we have exactly the same situation here. My GD is taking French Immersion and is very bright. She is quiet and loves school. I do get upset when I realize that writing skills are not requred any more though. Cursive is no longer taught in the early grades here. It is all printed word. I remember the wonderful handwriting from my Nana, and Parents, not so much me, as I am very very left handed and never was a good writer. My sister is a beautiful writer. Now Hayley has never learned to write - only print. Sad.
> 
> I will talk to my son but she is in a small school and there is a very good feeling there. She speaks French fluently. In grade one it was English in the Mornings and French only in the afternoons (or the other way around). Grade two it was 3 days a week in French only and 2 in English and over the 4 years they speak only French. As French is our second language in Canada, it is a good thing for her to know.
> ...


My Dad was born & raised in a French-Canadian family in Canada - he spoke both French & English. He moved to California. One summer we took a trip to Canada to visit his relatives & I vividly remember cousins we visited - their parents insisted everything they said at home - every word - every sentence - had to be spoken in both French & English. They weren't being taught French in school - this was western Canada. At the time I thought that was a wonderful idea.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, Purl! I only taught for five years and started in my fifties. I had friends who had taught for 30 years, and they could teach circles around me. I went in early and stayed late - so did most of the first grade teachers. Some of those teachers could manage a Fortune 500 company from home!
> 
> I left when standardized testing put so much pressure on students and teachers - and administrators - that I felt I wasn't doing right by the children. We were data collectors, documenting everything. Then I got shingles from stress and decided that was my last year. I used to say I was yesterday's teacher.
> 
> ...


It strikes me as perverse that whenever it becomes clear the kids aren't learning well, some education experts decide to fix things by applying less time to teaching and more to clerical work. As if testing could teach them anything.

From what you describe, you seemed to have fun with the kids. That's a big part of teaching, keeping them interested and enjoying it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Haha, in the last 2 weeks I did! Fortunately, granny was with her DIL or daughter for most of the month leading up to the wedding, so I had a little more time than usual. I was working on the cords up until we arrived at the courtyard where our ceremony was held. By the time I was done, I was making the flowers in record time and couldn't use my thumb for 2 weeks! There was a little bit of nerve damage in the tip from pressing it against the crochet hook. Lol! My first crafting injury. I was so proud. Lol.


I hope you crocheted yourself a purple heart for that.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> My Dad was born & raised in a French-Canadian family in Canada - he spoke both French & English. He moved to California. One summer we took a trip to Canada to visit his relatives & I vividly remember cousins we visited - their parents insisted everything they said at home - every word - every sentence - had to be spoken in both French & English. They weren't being taught French in school - this was western Canada. At the time I thought that was a wonderful idea.


All through high school Grades 10 = 12 (university entrance) we can take French. I took it for one period a day for 3 years. I have a very very basic knowledge, although as i have never had to use it I have very little ability now.

Hayley is l0 and they speak it all day, Her mother has to have it for work so it is a plus for each of them. Quebec City is very French and the Rural towns are usually fully french. Montreal is more the dual languages.

In parts of Quebec the stores are fully french language and in some places English is not even allowed. there have been some hard feelings over the years. Our Government requires both French and English and any calls to the government are answered in French and English - as there is only one French Province and the rest are English speaking, there are a lot of Canadians who are not too happy with the situation. However, it seems to work okay. There are pockets of French speaking citizens in different parts of the Country.

I think the fact that she is learning to speak fluent French is a good thing. We are out west and there are both spanish immersion and French immersion schools here.

What part of Western Canada- I am a Western Canadian? By the way, welcome.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


Looks perfect to me. Thanks for sharing.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm with you, Bonnie. It's why I won't go into education. It all makes me sick, sad, and worried about the future of society. These kids are going to be the ones making our laws one day, or voting for the people who make our laws. Never get off your soapbox when it comes to educations. It is far too important for people to ignore, which is what's happening. TEACHERS should decide what should be taught and how. THEY are on the front lines, so to speak. Demographics have a lot to do with how a child should learn. There is no "one size fits all" for education, other than that it should be enjoyable for both the students and teachers. I had so much fun in school. Well, except when it came to math. Lol. Though I did enjoy it up until precalc, which I didn't have a good teacher. My teacher for AP statistics (which like geometry uses math but I don't think either are specifically math) in high school couldn't get through to me. When I took honors statistics in college, I got an "A" bc the teacher was so good at what he did.
> 
> What about the kids who are being raised not to hear the word "no"? That has me very worried. Very worried indeed.


That is a huge problem.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> One of the problems with US education is that children are not taught a second language. This makes it more difficult to learn a new one when they are older. It is very important bc languages help so much with other learning and development, not to mention that it is incredibly egocentric to think they only need to learn English.


I think it depends on the school system. All my grandchildren have taken Spanish since elementary school. Now they're really getting good. I told them I have to learn so they can't talk about me!! I took a lot of French - loved it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It strikes me as perverse that whenever it becomes clear the kids aren't learning well, some education experts decide to fix things by applying less time to teaching and more to clerical work. As if testing could teach them anything.
> 
> From what you describe, you seemed to have fun with the kids. That's a big part of teaching, keeping them interested and enjoying it.


I really did enjoy them. Still do. That's really why I went into teaching when I was young.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> All through high school Grades 10 = 12 (university entrance) we can take French. I took it for one period a day for 3 years. I have a very very basic knowledge, although as i have never had to use it I have very little ability now.
> 
> Hayley is l0 and they speak it all day, Her mother has to have it for work so it is a plus for each of them. Quebec City is very French and the Rural towns are usually fully french. Montreal is more the dual languages.
> 
> ...


I really should visit Canada - although I probably couldn't understand "real" French! Mine's all from textbooks and American teachers.

I take that back. In college I took one semester of French. The teacher was from another European country (can't remember), and she spoke French with a different accent. That was hard.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope you crocheted yourself a purple heart for that.


No, I didn't think about it! Darn! But I did crochet many purple flowers!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I think it depends on the school system. All my grandchildren have taken Spanish since elementary school. Now they're really getting good. I told them I have to learn so they can't talk about me!! I took a lot of French - loved it!


Then your grandkids and the kids in your school district are very lucky. I have never heard that before. In fact, it's one of the largest criticisms of the American Education system by other countries; that a large part of our population does not know more than BASIC English. Our citizens do not even know how to write or speak properly. Other countries learn multiple languages by the time they would get into what would be our middle school (Germany and Belgium are great examples). It's like in my fair lady, "why can't the English?" when Professor Higgins says "in America, they haven't used it for years!" And when before that when he explains how other cultures teach their people very well. It's so true. A lot of people who are intelligent and well educated are unaware of this problem. Many kids entering college cannot even write a basic essay, or speak appropriately for an interview.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks SQ, I don't either! But I can use it when I renew my vows. And hopefully by that time my cantor, whom I am very fond of, will be able to perform a ceremony for mixed marriages. As it was she did participate as much as she could without stepping on the toes of conservative Jewish principals. It was very important to her to be a part of it, even if she couldn't officiate. She did the "yiverechechah" (priestly benediction) and sang "l,chi lach" (Debbie freedman) which she didn't know I had sang as part of my d'var at my bat mitzvah. It was so special!!!
> She is trying to get the United Synagogues to recognize and allow mixed marriages.


I wish her the best of luck. When dsd and dsil became engaged, both her pastor and his rabbi tried to talk them out of the marriage.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion wrote:
It's not, though. The chupah has so much more meaning and represents the home and new family that the couple is creating. I guess the "bad juju" of the first marriage could still be considered to be there, but we make what we want of "luck". I guess it's a personal preference.

If I had had the option of getting married under the chupah I did the first Tim 10 years ago, I would have bc it had a nice meaning and was the chupah everyone in my generation was getting married under. As it was, it was spitefully kept from me, which actually turned out for the better bc this one was MUCH more special.



MarilynKnits said:


> Our wedding was one of the last in the synagogue my husband's grandfather helped establish. My in-laws were the first couple to be married there. We used the same chuppa as my in-laws had used. Sadly, my husband's grandfather passed away 6 months before our wedding and his grandmother 4 months before. Somehow having the ceremony there made us feel as if their spirits were there with us.


See now? That's what I mean I missed that whole first piece. Back I go. Glad I saw that, and thanks for that little bit of your history, Marilyn.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> you may take 2 hours of basic sewing sometime. You will be surprised how much you learn and how much more fun sewing by machine will be. The loops have to do with tension setting, easy to correct.


I rarely sew by machine, I do enjoy it when I do.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> This is an excellent article. I especially like this part:
> 
> "She knew there must be a way to tap into what students already understood and then build on it. In her classroom, she replaced I, We, You with a structure you might call You, Yall, We. Rather than starting each lesson by introducing the main idea to be learned that day, she assigned a single problem of the day, designed to let students struggle toward it  first on their own (You), then in peer groups (Yall) and finally as a whole class (We). The result was a process that replaced answer-getting with what Lampert called sense-making. By pushing students to talk about math, she invited them to share the misunderstandings most American students keep quiet until the test. In the process, she gave them an opportunity to realize, on their own, why their answers were wrong."
> 
> ...


Funny how administrators don't understand that little "if it ain't broke don't fix it thing". 
There are enough problems simply because there is so much more to teach without making it more complicated.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> I wish her the best of luck. When dsd and dsil became engaged, both her pastor and his rabbi tried to talk them out of the marriage.


It's so sad bc it turns a lot of Jews away from their upbringing bc they feel left out. It is essential for the growth of our people to incorporate those who love someone outside of our faith. In fact, besides rabbinic law, I believe it goes against the basic principals of our beliefs. I mean, how are we supposed to come to G-ds promise of making us "as numerous as the stars in the sky" if we shun people just bc of who they love? I believe that someone is more likely to raise their children Jewish if they feel they are accepted. In fact, I know a woman who married a gentile and it wasn't until their sons bar mitzvah that he converted. She didn't receive the same treatment as you dsil dsd did. On the other hand, I also know people who have gone the opposite way bc of the way they were treated by their community.

My dh is a Jew at heart. He lives his life the way we are taught, and treats people with the respect outline in the Torah.

I love that story about rabbi Hillel and the convert; there was a guy who went around to a bunch of rabbis, telling them that he would convert if they could teach him the Torah/principals of Judaism while standing on his head (one foot? I've heard different versions). All the rabbis turned him away until he came across rabbi Hillel. 
"Treat others as you would have yourself be treated. The rest is just filler." (I love rabbi Hillel).

To me, that is what being a Jew is, and someone should not be ostracized who believes in this and loves another human being for it.

I have not spoken To my rabbi about how he feels about my mixed marriage. I grew up with the man so I think I already know. He seems to like dh, though, and is at least happy that I found someone who takes such good care of me AND my family. And isn't that also what Judaism is about?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Funny how administrators don't understand that little "if it ain't broke don't fix it thing".
> There are enough problems simply because there is so much more to teach without making it more complicated.


Or the "if it shows that it is broken and isn't getting results, maybe you should try another way." Sheesh. It also seems that they have no ties to logic or reality. Oy vey!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Wow, very nice.



MarilynKnits said:


> I did a small petit point picture for my son's room when he was small, then a bargello rug I designed to look like granny squares when my daughter was small. The rug has held up very well. I do prefer knitting, though.
> 
> Sorry the petit point came out blurry.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Only if they were getting married again, or renewing their vows. My parents will renew theirs in 2 years, but this will be their first time under THIS particular chupah.


Yes, I get the heirloom part. I was referring specifically to SQM's post that I took to mean marrying a different person. 
Maybe I misunderstood.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

This is for my Tri-State Comrades and Other Interested Parties:

I just read that a patient at Mt Sinai (NYC) is being tested for Ebola. He has recently returned from West Africa and seems to have all the symptoms. Yikes!!!!!!!!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Yes, I get the heirloom part. I was referring specifically to SQM's post that I took to mean marrying a different person.
> Maybe I misunderstood.


Lol ok!! Haha.

You know, Jews were not the first to use the Chuppah. It was a pagan tradition long before. That is why our rabbi was supportive of my getting married under a chupah, even though he could not marry us and didn't necessarily agree with my marrying a non Jew. I know it didn't have anything to do with the conversation, just a little interesting tidbit I thought you might want to know.

Though I was not having a Jewish ceremony, having the "yiverechechah" (priestly benediction) said over us (this is most commonly the prayer parents will say over their children), breaking the glass, my grandpas siddur, and the chupah were all very important for me to have.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There is almost always a silver lining.



Natureschampion said:


> It's not, though. The chupah has so much more meaning and represents the home and new family that the couple is creating. I guess the "bad juju" of the first marriage could still be considered to be there, but we make what we want of "luck". I guess it's a personal preference.
> 
> If I had had the option of getting married under the chupah I did the first Tim 10 years ago, I would have bc it had a nice meaning and was the chupah everyone in my generation was getting married under. As it was, it was spitefully kept from me, which actually turned out for the better bc this one was MUCH more special.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> This is for my Tri-State Comrades and Other Interested Parties:
> 
> I just read that a patient at Mt Sinai (NYC) is being tested for Ebola. He has recently returned from West Africa and seems to have all the symptoms. Yikes!!!!!!!!


Uh oh!! I'll have to keep my eye out out here. LAX is the busiest airport next to Kennedy (I believe) with connections all over the world. This is quite unsettling!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> There is almost always a silver lining.


Totally! I couldn't agree more! Sometimes we have to look for it, but more often than not it is there.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> This is for my Tri-State Comrades and Other Interested Parties:
> 
> I just read that a patient at Mt Sinai (NYC) is being tested for Ebola. He has recently returned from West Africa and seems to have all the symptoms. Yikes!!!!!!!!


It seems that everyone is following recommendations. That's a good thing, right? All the symptoms is what looks like having the flu in the early stages. I think it is great that medical personnel is being cautious.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Then your grandkids and the kids in your school district are very lucky. I have never heard that before. In fact, it's one of the largest criticisms of the American Education system by other countries; that a large part of our population does not know more than BASIC English. Our citizens do not even know how to write or speak properly. Other countries learn multiple languages by the time they would get into what would be our middle school (Germany and Belgium are great examples). It's like in my fair lady, "why can't the English?" when Professor Higgins says "in America, they haven't used it for years!" And when before that when he explains how other cultures teach their people very well. It's so true. A lot of people who are intelligent and well educated are unaware of this problem. Many kids entering college cannot even write a basic essay, or speak appropriately for an interview.


Actually, now that I think of it, they've all been in parochial school - except for two of them. Those two went to the best public school I've ever seen. It's Normal Park Museum Magnet School in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The principal started the lower grades, did such an excellent job that she was also given the middle school! All in her late thirties-early forties. Now she's off for a year in Washington, D.C., serving on some kind of task force to study schools. I hope she has a lot of input. It would take me a long time to tell you all that's right about that school!

The public school I taught in didn't have Spanish. We had a lot of ESOL students, though - and most of them spoke Spanish fluently! Do what you said is also correct here. My mistake. Sorry about that - spoke before thinking.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I didn't know that, it does make sense. A lovely bower of natural beauty surrounding people, who could ask for anything more? 
That reminds me, I have to set the latest herbs outside.


Natureschampion said:


> Lol ok!! Haha.
> 
> You know, Jews were not the first to use the Chuppah. It was a pagan tradition long before. That is why our rabbi was supportive of my getting married under a chupah, even though he could not marry us and didn't necessarily agree with my marrying a non Jew. I know it didn't have anything to do with the conversation, just a little interesting tidbit I thought you might want to know.
> 
> Though I was not having a Jewish ceremony, having the "yiverechechah" (priestly benediction) said over us (this is most commonly the prayer parents will say over their children), breaking the glass, my grandpas siddur, and the chupah were all very important for me to have.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I didn't know that, it does make sense. A lovely bower of natural beauty surrounding people, who could ask for anything more?
> That reminds me, I have to set the latest herbs outside.


Seriously!!

Ooh, are you hardening them off? I have to do that with mine, I've been neglectful of it. :|


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I was indifferent towards math until I got older. I think as we mature and our brain continues to make connections, we begin to see patterns in math and to understand how it works ( to some degree). That's why I think the new idea of trying to get 6-year olds to understand the commutative law, etc. is premature. It's with use that we get understanding. You can't expect a 6-year old brain to understand the reasoning behind math. Some of it doesn't come until college. I still don't understand what the heck imaginary numbers are, although my math family (husband, son, one daughter) try to explain it to me.
> 
> Imaginary numbers - please! What do you use them for? Paying your imaginary credit card bill!
> 
> ...


I love how you taught them math concepts by counting people. I really dislike negative numbers it sounds funny to say it. I always picture my own number timeline for numbers 0-100. Makes it so ez for me to do figuring in my head.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Was he being funny on it? I thought his sit-coms were hilarious. And the ending of the second one - the best last show ever, I think.


He devised a way to make it appear his wife attemped murder and send her to prison. I didn't see it from the start, so not sure why he didn't divorce her. I think it was a scheme for money. He wanted to marry a sexy dancer. It wasn't funny----as in Lol. But it was amusing to see what lengths he went to.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> This is for my Tri-State Comrades and Other Interested Parties:
> 
> I just read that a patient at Mt Sinai (NYC) is being tested for Ebola. He has recently returned from West Africa and seems to have all the symptoms. Yikes!!!!!!!!


I was there this afternoon. I'll keep you posted about symptoms as they occur.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Seriously!!
> 
> Ooh, are you hardening them off? I have to do that with mine, I've been neglectful of it. :|


HHmmmmm, does it have a name?
LOL, I can be such a dolt. I just rotate the few pots I have so that they get a break from summer sun. I rotate them here and there. I have nice shade, sometimes it still seems too much for them.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

BethAntic said:


> Quite frankly there's very little of Judeo-Christian religion that hasn't been "borrowed" from other culures and religions.


That is very true, at least so far as the Christian faith goes. I am not sure that a group that doesn't evangelize needed to use the traditions of other faiths.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> That is very true, at least so far as the Christian faith goes. I am not sure that a group that doesn't evangelize needed to use the traditions of other faiths.


It's not a need; it's a matter of familiarity. People will pick up customs from their surroundings.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> We're not unionized in Georgia. I think the problem is that schools went to a "business model" a few years ago. They even called students and parents "customers" for a while. They want no-frills efficiency and competition among the schools - even among the teachers! That's so counter-productive. Teachers have always shared ideas and materials. We had a case where the principal asked a teacher who had the highest scores to share what she did. Nobody knew who it was - and nobody shared. Competition isn't always the best way to success.
> It certainly hasn't helped our schools.
> 
> They've become so hard-nosed that they've taken rest time and home living out of kindergarten. Five-year-olds are expected to spend their seven hours reading, writing, and doing math. Talk about sucking all the life out of school. My grandsons went to a school last year where they had NO recess. PE once a week - in third grade. This is bad.
> ...


I didn't respond to all of this, and something you said more recently made me go back and read it more closely.

So they have teachers compete (without a true form of measurement of success), but they have taken the competition out sports, thereby not teaching children about healthy competition, and working hard as a team to reach a common goal. And the only "winners" in education are the kids who are learning something. It seems the current model of education only produces "losers". IMO. I am aware and sickened by how students and parents are viewed by educational bureaucrats. I wouldn't be surprised if every one of them who has these views put their children through private school, where sometimes (not always, prob not even most of the time) they indeed ARE buying their children's education (there is an old rivalry between UCLA and USC. UCLA is a public U. USC is private. The joke is that USC students are spoiled snobs whose parents simply "buy" their degree rather than them having to work for it. It's not true, harmless fun and these are COLLEGE students, not first graders). I'm sorry, but there is no room for capitalism in education, other than teaching it's economic principals and in the context of teaching about our society. Again, that my opinion.

I did not know that even kindergarten had gotten that bad. Having a one track education is not healthy for development. It is one reason why Even universities require you to tak basic classes in every subject outside of your field. Having rest time, snack time, and social time are just as crucial as the subjects they are learning. PE is even more important. For many kids, it is the only opportunity they get for (safe) activity. People who excersize tend to be healthier. That's a fact. It is even more important during crucial periods of physical development.

What did you study? My emphasis was on child and adolescent, especially in the context of family, society and education, and perspectives of child rearing. I learned the same exact thing.

It seems we have the same feelings about education. The power needs to be placed back in the hands of the school districts. DEMOGRAPHICS is the best subject to determine what should be taught and how. This is all quite depressing.

Btw, I had a physics teacher in hs who told us that he became a teacher bc he failed too many physics courses in college to become a apolite. These were college bound students. What kind of message was this sending?



bonbf3 said:


> Actually, now that I think of it, they've all been in parochial school - except for two of them. Those two went to the best public school I've ever seen. It's Normal Park Museum Magnet School in Chattanooga, Tennessee. The principal started the lower grades, did such an excellent job that she was also given the middle school! All in her late thirties-early forties. Now she's off for a year in Washington, D.C., serving on some kind of task force to study schools. I hope she has a lot of input. It would take me a long time to tell you all that's right about that school!
> 
> The public school I taught in didn't have Spanish. We had a lot of ESOL students, though - and most of them spoke Spanish fluently! Do what you said is also correct here. My mistake. Sorry about that - spoke before thinking.


I hope she has much success. And that's the thing-the ones on the front lines are the ones who should be setting the curriculum. I am glad that the school is so great. We need to look at these schools (there are some in CA that have the same success) and use them as models.

Many of the schools here also have ESOL students. These students actually learn proper English, or at least they used to. It used to be that ESOL students scored higher on grammar portions of the tests than native speaking students! Isn't that something?!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I was there this afternoon. I'll keep you posted about symptoms as they occur.


Please do.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> No, it's not. The canopy is now a family heirloom that will be used at my sibs weddings and other generations as well. It is quite special and would only be used for such ceremonies. I would love to make cords and flowers to put outside. Any suggestions for what to use?
> 
> My mom is a professional photographer, but she was also a guest. She didn't think about hiring someone either. She did get a lot of great pics, but I don't know how to get them on here.
> 
> BTW, does anyone know of a way to waterproof the cords and/or flowers? They are mainly acrylic, but there is some wool and cotton in there as well.


O sorry. I didn't understand the meaning.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BethAntic said:


> Quite frankly there's very little of Judeo-Christian religion that hasn't been "borrowed" from other culures and religions.


Totally! And that's one of the reasons I enjoy studying cultures and religions so much. It's all so fascinating! Religion is the "greatest social experiment"; IMO.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> HHmmmmm, does it have a name?
> LOL, I can be such a dolt. I just rotate the few pots I have so that they get a break from summer sun. I rotate them here and there. I have nice shade, sometimes it still seems too much for them.


I don't get it... Lol. I can be a dolt as well...

Oh yes, I kinda do that too. I also move them around to maximize the daylight hours.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

In which case, adopted would probably have been used rather than "borrowed" or maybe not. 
Being raised by a lapsed Catholic meant hearing lots of negative stories about the history of missionaries and their methods.



Poor Purl said:


> It's not a need; it's a matter of familiarity. People will pick up customs from their surroundings.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> That is very true, at least so far as the Christian faith goes. I am not sure that a group that doesn't evangelize needed to use the traditions of other faiths.


It's not only that. Cultures in general evolve. They retain part of the original cultures. Also with religions, there are basic unifying principles, sometimes we don't know which came first, bc there is no first. The open minded cultures will adopt traditions of other cultures bc they like their teachings.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I would like to thank those members of this thread who have taught me so much since this thread opened. I have had good friends who are Jewish, but much of the meaning of terms, etc. were not clear to me. I have enjoyed the discussion and have learned about so many things I was unsure of. 

I thank you for your frankness and your friendship. NC, I think you add a lot to this thread. Most of my experiences were during and after the war, and those experiences have been with me my whole life. I really am enjoying your discussions.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

ute4kp said:


> O sorry. I didn't understand the meaning.


Don't apologize!! I'm very fortunate for the ability to share with you, and appreciate the fact that you care enough to comment and ask questions. Keep 'me coming!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not a need; it's a matter of familiarity. People will pick up customs from their surroundings.


I disagree. There are religions that have used traditions and dates from other religions for the sole purpose of conversion. They were not being respectful and incorporating these traditions, they were using them to confuse people.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I would like to thank those members of this thread who have taught me so much since this thread opened. I have had good friends who are Jewish, but much of the meaning of terms, etc. were not clear to me. I have enjoyed the discussion and have learned about so many things I was unsure of.
> 
> I thank you for your frankness and your friendship. NC, I think you add a lot to this thread. Most of my experiences were during and after the war, and those experiences have been with me my whole life. I really am enjoying your discussions.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> I love how you taught them math concepts by counting people. I really dislike negative numbers it sounds funny to say it. I always picture my own number timeline for numbers 0-100. Makes it so ez for me to do figuring in my head.


When I taught Home Economics in elementary grades for about 5 years, I consulted with the classroom teachers regarding math and reading skills. We would work out recipes using appropriate vocabulary and (this was way long ago) print off mimeo copies for the children. We would give the amount per ingredient for a number of servings and either have the children halve or double the quantities. We would underline some new words and have them as part of the vocabulary and spelling lessons.

When I taught the sewing part of the curriculum, the children learned to measure and to read patterns.

My husband spent his 34 year teaching career in Industrial Arts. He also incorporated reading and math skills along with some science in dealing with catalysts in hardening epoxies, learning the properties of metal alloys, and other factors as they became applicable to the projects the children were working on.

Neither of us was content toiling away in a basement room "making stuff". We wanted the students to understand practical applications of the academic subjects they studied. Today, 22 years after my husband retired, he has former students who run into him at the hardware store or the library among other local places thank him for what he taught them. He has former students whose career paths were influenced by what they learned in his classes.

I think Bonnie probably has that same kind of personal recognition from her former students once they are mature adults and can evaluate what her enriching method of teaching gave them.

It also helps to work in a more enlightened school district where innovative teaching is respected and valued. Many of my husband's students had very supportive parents who wanted their children to have diverse learning experiences, another important factor in successful education.

Being forced to teach aimed at passing standardized tests cheats the children as well as the teachers. There have to be some tests, of course, but when education becomes test driven rather than learning driven the students are short changed.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BethAntic said:


> Quite frankly there's very little of Judeo-Christian religion that hasn't been "borrowed" from other culures and religions.


If you look closely at some of the rituals and celebrations, you can see the pagan origins. In order to tame and civilize the pagans, new religions had to incorporate what was familiar and end up with (as an extreme example) money donations to support the institution replacing dropping virgins down volcanoes to placate the gods.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I would like to thank those members of this thread who have taught me so much since this thread opened. I have had good friends who are Jewish, but much of the meaning of terms, etc. were not clear to me. I have enjoyed the discussion and have learned about so many things I was unsure of.
> 
> I thank you for your frankness and your friendship. NC, I think you add a lot to this thread. Most of my experiences were during and after the war, and those experiences have been with me my whole life. I really am enjoying your discussions.


Thanks, designer! You have no idea how much that means to me, and how much I "needed" to hear that today. I enjoy sharing my beliefs and experiences with others, and hearing their stories as well.

I, too, thank you for YOUR friendship; all of you. I truly feel like I am home with family here at NB. I feel for the first time I can truly be myself. Your friendships are invaluable. I have enjoyed every discussion with you, and cannot state ENOUGH how much I appreciate the ability to express myself. You are all so warm and supportive. You are all wonderful women and deserve a hug, and to give yourselves a pat on the back. Really, I applaud each and every one of you.

L'chayim!
(L'chayim means "to life", you know, like fiddler on the roof. We say it as a salutation or toast)


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

HAHAHAAA, that is a streeeeeeeetttttcchhh. Oh wait, I was thinking drawn and QUARTERed.



MarilynKnits said:


> If you look closely at some of the rituals and celebrations, you can see the pagan origins. In order to tame and civilize the pagans, new religions had to incorporate what was familiar and end up with (as an extreme example) money donations to support the institution replacing dropping virgins down volcanoes to placate the gods.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> When I taught Home Economics in elementary grades for about 5 years, I consulted with the classroom teachers regarding math and reading skills. We would work out recipes using appropriate vocabulary and (this was way long ago) print off mimeo copies for the children. We would give the amount per ingredient for a number of servings and either have the children halve or double the quantities. We would underline some new words and have them as part of the vocabulary and spelling lessons.
> 
> When I taught the sewing part of the curriculum, the children learned to measure and to read patterns.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, marylinknits!

One of the greatest disservices to American youth is when they cut out home economics from most schools. I never had the advantage of having that course. I wish I had. I think people would be much more suited for the realities of life if there was more focus on practical applications of a subject they were learning, as well as the ability to cook, clean, sew, etc. bc these skills are no longer taught, once these students become adults many of them either have to rely on others to do it, or get into a lot of trouble.

I love that your dh's students still come up to him. That's a mark of a truly great teacher. My mom has the blessing of being able to teach the children of the students she had over 30 years ago. Some of them have said that the only reason they remained culturally and/or religiously Jewish, and decided to raise their children Jewish, is bc of her.

The last statement should be put over the door of districts and school houses. It is too, too true. It is also common sense, and I don't know why people don't know this.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> HAHAHAAA, that is a streeeeeeeetttttcchhh. Oh wait, I was thinking drawn and QUARTERed.


You're so silly, knitanon! What have YOU been eating/drinking (or something) today? Lol


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The world needs more of this. 
Kids need to understand how those skills translate to the real world, what better examples than cooking and making/repairing something. 
I understand the need for emphasis on certain advanced courses and achievement. However, there will always be people with us who need and will use just the basics. Very often that is to create the beauty in the world.



MarilynKnits said:


> When I taught Home Economics in elementary grades for about 5 years, I consulted with the classroom teachers regarding math and reading skills. We would work out recipes using appropriate vocabulary and (this was way long ago) print off mimeo copies for the children. We would give the amount per ingredient for a number of servings and either have the children halve or double the quantities. We would underline some new words and have them as part of the vocabulary and spelling lessons.
> 
> When I taught the sewing part of the curriculum, the children learned to measure and to read patterns.
> 
> ...


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The world needs more of this.
> Kids need to understand how those skills translate to the real world, what better examples than cooking and making/repairing something.
> I understand the need for emphasis on certain advanced courses and achievement. However, there will always be people with us who need and will use just the basics. Very often that is to create the beauty in the world.


And with the unilateral emphasis on academics, who is expected to become skilled mechanics to repair our cars, carpenters to install our kitchens, horticulturalists to beautify our environment, electricians to keep our houses from burning down, and on and on? We have to rebuild society's respect for people who do more than push papers around or have very muscular thumbs.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> I love how you taught them math concepts by counting people. I really dislike negative numbers it sounds funny to say it. I always picture my own number timeline for numbers 0-100. Makes it so ez for me to do figuring in my head.


Thank you! That way they can physically be involved.

The numbers in my head are all positive, too. We are such optimists, you and I!

Negative numbers don't figure too often in my daily life - except for subtraction, which is also adding a negative number.

Makes my head spin.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> He devised a way to make it appear his wife attemped murder and send her to prison. I didn't see it from the start, so not sure why he didn't divorce her. I think it was a scheme for money. He wanted to marry a sexy dancer. It wasn't funny----as in Lol. But it was amusing to see what lengths he went to.


"Oh, Bob!"

Actually, I say that a lot since my husband's name is Bob. :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not a need; it's a matter of familiarity. People will pick up customs from their surroundings.


That sounds right. We latecomers borrowed.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I was there this afternoon. I'll keep you posted about symptoms as they occur.


Heavens to Betsy! I heard on the news that they are not sure. Obviously saying it is Ebola in NYC will start a fuss. The report said they are notifying people who were in the hospital lobby so maybe authorities will call you.

In the meantime, I am sure that I am speaking for everyone when I say it has been swell knowing you and having you on this Forum. Your posts were always interesting.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I hope she has much success. And that's the thing-the ones on the front lines are the ones who should be setting the curriculum. I am glad that the school is so great. We need to look at these schools (there are some in CA that have the same success) and use them as models.
> 
> Many of the schools here also have ESOL students. These students actually learn proper English, or at least they used to. It used to be that ESOL students scored higher on grammar portions of the tests than native speaking students! Isn't that something?!


The competition among teachers comes from the practice of meeting to discuss test scores on the standardized test CRCT (Criterion Reference Competence Test). The scores were printed out without naming the teachers, but you could figure it out. It was extremely uncomfortable. Also the school was graded on these test scores. Ridiculous. If you "grade" a teacher on the test scores of his/her students, no one will want to teach the slower children. There was no allowance for the ability levels of the students. In fact, special ed. students, who were not placed in equal numbers in the schools, had their scores lumped in with the rest. So if you had a large group of children in special ed., you were expected to get them to perform at the same level as all the others.

Too much pressure on children and teachers.

You must have had an outstanding ESOL program.

You asked what I studied. Elementary Education and Psychology. I think we learned a lot of the same things, but I went to school way before you did. Graduated in 1965.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Heavens to Betsy! I heard on the news that they are not sure. Obviously saying it is Ebola in NYC will start a fuss. The report said they are notifying people who were in the hospital lobby so maybe authorities will call you.
> 
> In the meantime, I am sure that I am speaking for everyone when I say it has been swell knowing you and having you on this Forum. Your posts were always interesting.


 :XD:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> In which case, adopted would probably have been used rather than "borrowed" or maybe not.
> Being raised by a lapsed Catholic meant hearing lots of negative stories about the history of missionaries and their methods.


I stand corrected. Adopted is better because we didn't return those customs.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> When I taught Home Economics in elementary grades for about 5 years, I consulted with the classroom teachers regarding math and reading skills. We would work out recipes using appropriate vocabulary and (this was way long ago) print off mimeo copies for the children. We would give the amount per ingredient for a number of servings and either have the children halve or double the quantities. We would underline some new words and have them as part of the vocabulary and spelling lessons.
> 
> When I taught the sewing part of the curriculum, the children learned to measure and to read patterns.
> 
> ...


You put it so well. I'll bet the children loved your classes. We didn't have Home Ec where I taught, but we had "special areas" classes - PE, Music, Art, Math. I always thought they were the heart of the school because the children loved them - and those teachers incorporated other parts of the curriculum, too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If you look closely at some of the rituals and celebrations, you can see the pagan origins. In order to tame and civilize the pagans, new religions had to incorporate what was familiar and end up with (as an extreme example) money donations to support the institution replacing dropping virgins down volcanoes to placate the gods.


That was a very colorful explanation!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, designer! You have no idea how much that means to me, and how much I "needed" to hear that today. I enjoy sharing my beliefs and experiences with others, and hearing their stories as well.
> 
> I, too, thank you for YOUR friendship; all of you. I truly feel like I am home with family here at NB. I feel for the first time I can truly be myself. Your friendships are invaluable. I have enjoyed every discussion with you, and cannot state ENOUGH how much I appreciate the ability to express myself. You are all so warm and supportive. You are all wonderful women and deserve a hug, and to give yourselves a pat on the back. Really, I applaud each and every one of you.
> 
> ...


It seems that everyone feels the same way about you, NaturesChampion. You are so honest and exuberant!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> HAHAHAAA, that is a streeeeeeeetttttcchhh. Oh wait, I was thinking drawn and QUARTERed.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:

Don't worry - it's easy to mix up the tortures and sacrifices.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for sharing, marylinknits!
> 
> One of the greatest disservices to American youth is when they cut out home economics from most schools. I never had the advantage of having that course. I wish I had. I think people would be much more suited for the realities of life if there was more focus on practical applications of a subject they were learning, as well as the ability to cook, clean, sew, etc. bc these skills are no longer taught, once these students become adults many of them either have to rely on others to do it, or get into a lot of trouble.
> 
> ...


Yes, seeing one of your students grown up - and having them come up and talk to you - is a real treat.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, designer! You have no idea how much that means to me, and how much I "needed" to hear that today. I enjoy sharing my beliefs and experiences with others, and hearing their stories as well.
> 
> I, too, thank you for YOUR friendship; all of you. I truly feel like I am home with family here at NB. I feel for the first time I can truly be myself. Your friendships are invaluable. I have enjoyed every discussion with you, and cannot state ENOUGH how much I appreciate the ability to express myself. You are all so warm and supportive. You are all wonderful women and deserve a hug, and to give yourselves a pat on the back. Really, I applaud each and every one of you.
> 
> ...


I thought a bit of a verbal hug wouldn't hurt you right now. 
You do very well and we all respect your opinions. L'chayim back at you!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The world needs more of this.
> Kids need to understand how those skills translate to the real world, what better examples than cooking and making/repairing something.
> I understand the need for emphasis on certain advanced courses and achievement. However, there will always be people with us who need and will use just the basics. Very often that is to create the beauty in the world.


I agree. I learned some excellent lessons in Home Ec. I wasn't too good at sewing, but I never forgot some of those cleanliness in the kitchen rules!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And with the unilateral emphasis on academics, who is expected to become skilled mechanics to repair our cars, carpenters to install our kitchens, horticulturalists to beautify our environment, electricians to keep our houses from burning down, and on and on? We have to rebuild society's respect for people who do more than push papers around or have very muscular thumbs.


Absolutely right!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Heavens to Betsy! I heard on the news that they are not sure. Obviously saying it is Ebola in NYC will start a fuss. The report said they are notifying people who were in the hospital lobby so maybe authorities will call you.
> 
> In the meantime, I am sure that I am speaking for everyone when I say it has been swell knowing you and having you on this Forum. Your posts were always interesting.


Shame on you, SQM!! :shock:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> And with the unilateral emphasis on academics, who is expected to become skilled mechanics to repair our cars, carpenters to install our kitchens, horticulturalists to beautify our environment, electricians to keep our houses from burning down, and on and on? We have to rebuild society's respect for people who do more than push papers around or have very muscular thumbs.


And who will be able to afford these services when there are so few people who perform them that they can charge outrageous prices? This is a capitalistic society, btw. We need to bring back vocational schools. I keep hearing how they are closing down and it makes me sad and worried. And it's not just pushing papers or muscles-what about people who just happen to be able to speak "technology." What will these kids do when the power goes out and doesn't come back on? What do they do about fresh food when there is no one to farm and all the beneficial pollinating insects have been wiped out? When an earthquake hits and mcdonalds can't open?

Dh and I have a motto; "why pay someone to do some,thing you can do yourself." That is why I am encouraging him to take up sewing. We are very much DYI people. That's also another reason I didn't want cut flowers at my wedding. If it was season, I would have had flowers from my garden, my moms, mils, and gms. I didn't want to pay someone else for it. I just wish you didn't need a darned computer to fix your car! It's a scam, I tell you! Manufacturers want to make sure that you have to pay to have some thing repaired, and have to do so often. It's disgusting.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

How delightful a chuppah, Natureschampion


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you! That way they can physically be involved.
> 
> The numbers in my head are all positive, too. We are such optimists, you and I!
> 
> ...


When we were little, my bro (6 1/2 years younger) and I would stay up late so I could teach him counting, addition and subtraction with a chest full of beads I had. Those are some of my fondest memories. And he did exceptionally well in math until he got to more complex formulas! Lol!!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Shame on you, SQM!! :shock:


PP started. She mentioned sharing her symptoms with us. Come on. She has a great sense of humor. Don't worry. PP will get back at me.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> The competition among teachers comes from the practice of meeting to discuss test scores on the standardized test CRCT (Criterion Reference Competence Test). The scores were printed out without naming the teachers, but you could figure it out. It was extremely uncomfortable. Also the school was graded on these test scores. Ridiculous. If you "grade" a teacher on the test scores of his/her students, no one will want to teach the slower children. There was no allowance for the ability levels of the students. In fact, special ed. students, who were not placed in equal numbers in the schools, had their scores lumped in with the rest. So if you had a large group of children in special ed., you were expected to get them to perform at the same level as all the others.
> 
> Too much pressure on children and teachers.
> 
> ...


I am familiar with how they "grade" teachers. The abomination that is NCLB was passed right before I started at UC irvine, so it was very much discussed in my field. It is quite disturbing that people actually thought this might work.

My mother studied what I did but got a joint BA and credential in special education. She taught at a school where it was not uncommon for a child to bring a knife or gun to school, even back then. In fact she did have a student who brought a knife. My mother is an exceptional woman, as are you. She graduated in 78. I graduated in 06. I don't think too much has changed in child's needs, though our approach and perspective of how we fulfill those needs has. It is widely believed that we should go back to how "you" did things. I think what has mainly changed is what we know about certain behavioral and psychological disorder; like conduct disorder/oppositional defiance disorder, autism/Aspergers, and ADHD to name a few. In fact, even in the short time since I graduated the study of what is now referred to as Autism Spectrum disorder, or justAutism spectrum, is increased exponentially.

It seems like you and I have much to talk about. I wish there was more time in the day. <sigh>


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Camacho said:


> How delightful a chuppah, Natureschampion


Thanks camacho! I thought you would like it.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Shame on you, SQM!! :shock:


OMG!! I didn't get that until you said this and took another look! That WAS horrible! But at the same time kinda funny. I think PP might have said something similar.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> It seems that everyone feels the same way about you, NaturesChampion. You are so honest and exuberant!


Thanks Bonnie! That means a lot. And so are you. I love "hearing" what you have to say.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought a bit of a verbal hug wouldn't hurt you right now.
> You do very well and we all respect your opinions. L'chayim back at you!


Oh, designer! I think I'm going to cry! Don't worry, in a good way.

<<<<<>>>>>

Lol should we take joeysommas advice from a couple weeks ago (or was it last week) and hold hands while singing "coombayah"? I think that was a MARVELOUS idea! Anyone play the guitar? Or how bout "lean on me"? Are you familiar with that song? I heard it last week and thought of all you.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There is some druid out there who wants her evergreen back!
I don't know about that pickle thing, however.



bonbf3 said:


> I stand corrected. Adopted is better because we didn't return those customs.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I thought it was a hoot, but then when I looked the only sources for that story were NewsMax and Breitbart...


Natureschampion said:


> OMG!! I didn't get that until you said this and took another look! That WAS horrible! But at the same time kinda funny. I think PP might have said something similar.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh, designer! I think I'm going to cry! Don't worry, in a good way.
> 
> <<<<<>>>>>
> 
> Lol should we take joeysommas advice from a couple weeks ago (or was it last week) and hold hands while singing "coombayah"? I think that was a MARVELOUS idea! Anyone play the guitar? Or how bout "lean on me"? Are you familiar with that song? I heard it last week and thought of all you.




It is a favorite.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> And who will be able to afford these services when there are so few people who perform them that they can charge outrageous prices? This is a capitalistic society, btw. We need to bring back vocational schools. I keep hearing how they are closing down and it makes me sad and worried. And it's not just pushing papers or muscles-what about people who just happen to be able to speak "technology." What will these kids do when the power goes out and doesn't come back on? What do they do about fresh food when there is no one to farm and all the beneficial pollinating insects have been wiped out? When an earthquake hits and mcdonalds can't open?
> ________________________________________________
> And there you have my argument for less restrictive immigration. If people stopped thinking of every person who wants to come to the US as without skills AND if we (as Utah is trying to do) make it possible for people to work and pay taxes and support their families we could be in good shape.
> Though, I have always liked the DIY route just I like being able to take care of my car on my own, I like being able to put a new belt on my vacuum cleaner. I get satisfaction from those things.
> ...


Sorry, I forgot I was talking in the middle of your statements. 
I have a friend who wants to trade all of his employees in for computers.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> When we were little, my bro (6 1/2 years younger) and I would stay up late so I could teach him counting, addition and subtraction with a chest full of beads I had. Those are some of my fondest memories. And he did exceptionally well in math until he got to more complex formulas! Lol!!


Don't you love memories like that?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> PP started. She mentioned sharing her symptoms with us. Come on. She has a great sense of humor. Don't worry. PP will get back at me.


I know - I was just kidding you! :wink:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I am familiar with how they "grade" teachers. The abomination that is NCLB was passed right before I started at UC irvine, so it was very much discussed in my field. It is quite disturbing that people actually thought this might work.
> 
> My mother studied what I did but got a joint BA and credential in special education. She taught at a school where it was not uncommon for a child to bring a knife or gun to school, even back then. In fact she did have a student who brought a knife. My mother is an exceptional woman, as are you. She graduated in 78. I graduated in 06. I don't think too much has changed in child's needs, though our approach and perspective of how we fulfill those needs has. It is widely believed that we should go back to how "you" did things. I think what has mainly changed is what we know about certain behavioral and psychological disorder; like conduct disorder/oppositional defiance disorder, autism/Aspergers, and ADHD to name a few. In fact, even in the short time since I graduated the study of what is now referred to as Autism Spectrum disorder, or justAutism spectrum, is increased exponentially.
> 
> It seems like you and I have much to talk about. I wish there was more time in the day. <sigh>


We do have a lot to talk about! It sounds like your mother worked with children with behavior problems. My first job was subbing for the EBD teacher (Emotional and Behavioral Disorders) and her parapro. I had volunteered in their classroom - on Fridays - activities that were just for fun. So they asked me to sub. I loved it. Then I started working as a parapro in EBD. I loved it. The teacher was amazing. Then I took the test and started teaching first grade. Working in EBD was a great experience and a challenge every day.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Sorry, I forgot I was talking in the middle of your statements.
> I have a friend who wants to trade all of his employees in for computers.


No it's ok, I was totally able to follow.

Besides the immigrants, how many more people would be employed if they were taught the basics of these skills in school? We would probably have a 0% unemployment rate between the tech jobs and manual labor jobs. It's all connected. One shouldn't be sacrificed for the other. We have enough capable people to do both, but when certain programs get cut from schools and students don't know their many options, how will they learn?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Don't you love memories like that?


I do! I do! And I am so thrilled to be sharing the memories and have YOU ALL to thank for bringing them up!

So toda Rabah everyone! (Hebrew thank you)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I do! I do! And I am so thrilled to be sharing the memories and have YOU ALL to thank for bringing them up!
> 
> So toda Rabah everyone! (Hebrew thank you)


This will be on tomorrow's test, Cookie-ala.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> We do have a lot to talk about! It sounds like your mother worked with children with behavior problems. My first job was subbing for the EBD teacher (Emotional and Behavioral Disorders) and her parapro. I had volunteered in their classroom - on Fridays - activities that were just for fun. So they asked me to sub. I loved it. Then I started working as a parapro in EBD. I loved it. The teacher was amazing. Then I took the test and started teaching first grade. Working in EBD was a great experience and a challenge every day.


I bet! It takes a very special person to do it. I know you are a very kind and generous person with a big heart and the patience to teach these children and I'm sure you learned from them as well.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> No it's ok, I was totally able to follow.
> 
> Besides the immigrants, how many more people would be employed if they were taught the basics of these skills in school? We would probably have a 0% unemployment rate between the tech jobs and manual labor jobs. It's all connected. One shouldn't be sacrificed for the other. We have enough capable people to do both, but when certain programs get cut from schools and students don't know their many options, how will they learn?


We are going to have to make enormous shifts with the "robotization" of our society. 
My dream is that we can get to a shorter workweek with a living wage so that people can do more with their families and loved ones.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> No it's ok, I was totally able to follow.
> 
> Besides the immigrants, how many more people would be employed if they were taught the basics of these skills in school? We would probably have a 0% unemployment rate between the tech jobs and manual labor jobs. It's all connected. One shouldn't be sacrificed for the other. We have enough capable people to do both, but when certain programs get cut from schools and students don't know their many options, how will they learn?


I have forgotten already who just posted that we need to learn to respect tradesworkers. We certainly do. I don't know how we will channel people into the correct fields. I would bet that you know already that we have to do what we love, that "succesful" term doesn't mean a thing if a person is not satisfied at the end of the day. 
There is a big push on right now to pull the "tenured" status from teachers. I have wondered for years why teachers who were tired of doing it didn't switch out to some other track. I cannot imagine anything worse that the dread of facing a classroom of kids on top of the feeling that you are failing the people that you started your career so enthusiastic about helping. It must be so depressing. A bit stream of consciousness, I guess I am just saying that we are adaptable so something will work out.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> We are going to have to make enormous shifts with the "robotization" of our society.
> My dream is that we can get to a shorter workweek with a living wage so that people can do more with their families and loved ones.


Hear! Hear!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I disagree. There are religions that have used traditions and dates from other religions for the sole purpose of conversion. They were not being respectful and incorporating these traditions, they were using them to confuse people.


Ah, but Knitanon wondered why religions that didn't proselytize would pick up traditions from others.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you! That way they can physically be involved.
> 
> The numbers in my head are all positive, too. We are such optimists, you and I!
> 
> ...


How fortunate you and Ute have been: you've never been in debt. That's what negative numbers are for. If I were broke and I owed you $3.50, I'd have less than 0.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How fortunate you and Ute have been: you've never been in debt. That's what negative numbers are for. If I were broke and I owed you $3.50, I'd have less than 0.


I'll give you $5 so you can once again be on the plus side. Consider it a little birthday present.
The only math class I took after high school was statistics.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Heavens to Betsy! I heard on the news that they are not sure. Obviously saying it is Ebola in NYC will start a fuss. The report said they are notifying people who were in the hospital lobby so maybe authorities will call you.
> 
> In the meantime, I am sure that I am speaking for everyone when I say it has been swell knowing you and having you on this Forum. Your posts were always interesting.


They're even better nooooooow.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> PP started. She mentioned sharing her symptoms with us. Come on. She has a great sense of humor. Don't worry. PP will get back at me.


 I'll happily share my symptoms with you. With everyone else, I said I'd keep them posted.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I'll give you $5 so you can once again be on the plus side. Consider it a little birthday present.
> The only math class I took after high school was statistics.


Can I have a few cookies, too?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree. I learned some excellent lessons in Home Ec. I wasn't too good at sewing, but I never forgot some of those cleanliness in the kitchen rules!


One way I promoted my sewing classes was, I let the children take work home so their mom or gran could show how she did a hem or basted, then come back and teach the rest of us. I was teaching that there is more than one way to do things and have them turn out well and to value the knowledge of our parents and grandparents.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They're even better nooooooow.


I am a ghost fan. Ha ha ha ha on your two ghosts.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

G' morning all and a special hi to Cookie.

You are waking up to your YIddish quiz.

Directions: Think of 5 Yiddish words that you have learned on KP and write them and their definitions in the space below. Others cannot help. Thanks.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> And with the unilateral emphasis on academics, who is expected to become skilled mechanics to repair our cars, carpenters to install our kitchens, horticulturalists to beautify our environment, electricians to keep our houses from burning down, and on and on? We have to rebuild society's respect for people who do more than push papers around or have very muscular thumbs.


My high school had great programs in auto repair, machine shop work and secretarial skills. Yes, it was sexist. It was a long time ago. Even academic education had some useful applications other than creating kids who were only capable of going to college. It was long time ago. Pretty much anyone who graduated from high school could get an entry level job or better. Now, that was a really one of the good parts of the "good old days".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My high school had great programs in auto repair, machine shop work and secretarial skills. Yes, it was sexist. It was a long time ago. Even academic education had some useful applications other than creating kids who were only capable of going to college. It was long time ago. Pretty much anyone who graduated from high school could get an entry level job or better. Now, that was a really one of the good parts of the "good old days".


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I have forgotten already who just posted that we need to learn to respect tradesworkers. We certainly do. I don't know how we will channel people into the correct fields. I would bet that you know already that we have to do what we love, that "succesful" term doesn't mean a thing if a person is not satisfied at the end of the day.
> There is a big push on right now to pull the "tenured" status from teachers. I have wondered for years why teachers who were tired of doing it didn't switch out to some other track. I cannot imagine anything worse that the dread of facing a classroom of kids on top of the feeling that you are failing the people that you started your career so enthusiastic about helping. It must be so depressing. A bit stream of consciousness, I guess I am just saying that we are adaptable so something will work out.


The drop-out rate for new teachers is high. It's harder now than it used to be. In the "olden days," when the teacher walked to the front of the room, every stopped and turned to listen. Now - they just keep on keepin' on. Discipline became and remains to this day the major problem at the school.

Part of the problem we saw where I worked was the fear of lawsuits. And believe it or not, teachers were afraid of losing their jobs. Fear of not pleasing the parents. Fear of children complaining to parents and parents not backing up the teacher. Administrators' fear of teachers offending parents. Administrators' fear of parents suing the school. It was rampant.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> G' morning all and a special hi to Cookie.
> 
> You are waking up to your YIddish quiz.
> 
> Directions: Think of 5 Yiddish words that you have learned on KP and write them and their definitions in the space below. Others cannot help. Thanks.


This was so difficult because I already knew so many of the words!
I'm not giving all the definitions because others can look them up. That can be the morning brain awakener instead of the crosswords and sudoku.
1. Yahrzeit. I learned this from Shifra because we light them for our relatives. But I didn't know what yahrzeit glass was. And I didn't know the spelling
2. Gezunker---sounds like sneezing, so I was surprised at the meaning.
3. Tzvantzik--should've guessed because it was next to hundert
4. Toda Rabah for all the interesting discourse
5. Shtup which I thought I already knew
Shall I continue?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> This was so difficult because I already knew so many of the words!
> I'm not giving all the definitions because others can look them up. That can be the morning brain awakener instead of the crosswords and sudoku.
> 1. Yahrzeit. I learned this from Shifra because we light them for our relatives. But I didn't know what yahrzeit glass was. And I didn't know the spelling
> 2. Gezunker---sounds like sneezing, so I was surprised at the meaning.
> ...


Certainly keep on. If you get to 25, you can remove your cova temble. (sp? and pronunciation?)


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Certainly keep on. If you get to 25, you can remove your cova temble. (sp? and pronunciation?)


I have no kova tembel. One with a brim suits me better.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

I went to an all-girls school. WE had the option of taking the commercial route, shorthand and typing, or the academic route. I could not see myself sitting in a room full of typists (I think this idea came from the few movies I saw) so I took the academic route. Everybody had to do what we called Domestic Science. I hated this class and failed it miserably at exam time. I still hate cooking (making dinners) but I love baking and have become over the years a pretty passable baker. I also cook meals that get more than a passing grade.

My latest teaching experience was Montessori. I had a Montessori preschool, children from 2-1/2 to 6. The children learn to be self sufficient by doing laundry, ironing, cleaning tables, making sure that everything is left ready for the next user, etc., generally doing what needs to be done on a daily basis in life. We also did baking, where each child took a turn in measuring, stirring, etc. I taught these little children to sew, and they loved it. It was amazing what some of them could produce. I had one little girl who made the most beautiful quilt (done mostly at church. Her mother gave her this work to keep her occupied and quiet.) This child's grandmother was astounded that such a young child could produce such beautiful work.

We also did gardening, although this was not enjoyed as enthusiastically as baking and sewing.

I could go on at great length about the Montessori system of learning. It helps the children discover things by using real life situations. In my classroom there was nothing artificial and the children worked, they did not play, although they enjoyed what they were doing.

I had one child who, when she went to kindergarten, complained to her mother that she was bored, there was nothing to do. This little girl was never unoccupied in my class.

I am glad that I am not teaching now in the public school system. It seems that the teachers are expected to perform miracles, yet are not given the tools to do this. The teachers in BC are currently on strike over class size and composition. As I said, they are expected to perform miracles, yet they seem to be hampered by government at every turn. If the teachers have not returned to work by the start of the school year, the government plans to give the parents of each child younger than 13, $40 a day to help with child care, tuition, or anything else they want to spend this money on. This money could be used to help stock the school libraries, reduce class size, give more support for those who need it, etc.

Let's just say that it seems to be universal that education is going the way of the dodo. It has a low priority for those who fund it. I am glad that I am old, because I do not want to live in a world that will be run by those who are in school now. The academics are fine and necessary, but so are life skills, which seem to take a back seat.

Sorry to rant, but as a former teacher and Montessorian it makes me sad to see the waste of these young lives.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I went to an all-girls school. WE had the option of taking the commercial route, shorthand and typing, or the academic route. I could not see myself sitting in a room full of typists (I think this idea came from the few movies I saw) so I took the academic route. Everybody had to do what we called Domestic Science. I hated this class and failed it miserably at exam time. I still hate cooking (making dinners) but I love baking and have become over the years a pretty passable baker. I also cook meals that get more than a passing grade.
> 
> My latest teaching experience was Montessori. I had a Montessori preschool, children from 2-1/2 to 6. The children learn to be self sufficient by doing laundry, ironing, cleaning tables, making sure that everything is left ready for the next user, etc., generally doing what needs to be done on a daily basis in life. We also did baking, where each child took a turn in measuring, stirring, etc. I taught these little children to sew, and they loved it. It was amazing what some of them could produce. I had one little girl who made the most beautiful quilt (done mostly at church. Her mother gave her this work to keep her occupied and quiet.) This child's grandmother was astounded that such a young child could produce such beautiful work.
> 
> ...


Blue Jay - I would have loved teaching in your school. Too bad I started so late because I did give a thought to Montessori schools after it became so rigid in the public school. I've never studied the method, just learned about it a little, probably in college. The way you describe it makes me happy just reading it and imagining working like that. Children are so open, so interested in everything. Two and a half to six - they are precious at that age. It is a joy to help them discover.

Any time you want to reminisce, I'd love to hear about it. Did you open the school?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I have no kova tembel. One with a brim suits me better.


Impress us with more words. Your predecessor would have had a zillion. What a Yiddishe cup she had.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My high school had great programs in auto repair, machine shop work and secretarial skills. Yes, it was sexist. It was a long time ago. Even academic education had some useful applications other than creating kids who were only capable of going to college. It was long time ago. Pretty much anyone who graduated from high school could get an entry level job or better. Now, that was a really one of the good parts of the "good old days".


My husband pushed for girls to have the opportunity to study "shop" subjects. He had a girls' shop club before they were allowed to take the formal classes. He also pushed the Vo-Tech to accept girls in the classes, and they have welders, auto body technicians, and diesel mechanics without Y chromosomes now. We know women blacksmiths as well.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I have no kova tembel. One with a brim suits me better.


Just don't go overboard and end up with a shtremel! Some of them look like air cleaners!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys, I've gotten through most of the more recent posts but my eyes are really horrible today. I will catch up with y'all later!

Grandmere CQ, you are doing splendidly! I am so proud of you. 

Lots of love,
NC


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Hey guys, I've gotten through most of the more recent posts but my eyes are really horrible today. I will catch up with y'all later!
> 
> Grandmere CQ, you are doing splendidly! I am so proud of you.
> 
> ...


Hope you feel better after some rest. Close your eyes and put a couple of thin cucumber slices on the lids to help sooth them.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Hope you feel better after some rest. Close your eyes and put a couple of thin cucumber slices on the lids to help sooth them.


Thanks. I don't have cukes on hand right now, but is will substitute them with a cold washcloth. I will have to get some when I go to the market. Our weather just started to get dryer, so it's that mixed with little sleep lately.

TTFN! Ta Ta For Now!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband pushed for girls to have the opportunity to study "shop" subjects. He had a girls' shop club before they were allowed to take the formal classes. He also pushed the Vo-Tech to accept girls in the classes, and they have welders, auto body technicians, and diesel mechanics without Y chromosomes now. We know women blacksmiths as well.


That was a groundbreaking move he made - to the betterment of all!


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Blue Jay - I would have loved teaching in your school. Too bad I started so late because I did give a thought to Montessori schools after it became so rigid in the public school. I've never studied the method, just learned about it a little, probably in college. The way you describe it makes me happy just reading it and imagining working like that. Children are so open, so interested in everything. Two and a half to six - they are precious at that age. It is a joy to help them discover.
> 
> Any time you want to reminisce, I'd love to hear about it. Did you open the school?


I don't know how old you are, bonbf3, but I didn't get my certificate until I was 56. So you are never too old. I was the oldest in the class and the youngest was 19.

I first taught in an elementary school in Kelowna, BC. I was hired because I had taken the AMI training, that is the Association Montessori International. (If you are thinking of doing this, I would strongly advise that you search out an AMI training school. Over the years the programme has been altered to "suit the children of the day." But the AMI programme has been taught world wide, just as Maria Montessori developed it.) I taught, or rather directed, kindergarten, grade 1 and grade 2.

One thing I really like about the programme is that it is multi-age. The plan is that the older children help to teach the younger children, and the younger children learn from the older children by watching them. So everybody benefits. You have to know something in order to teach it, so the older children have the knowledge reinforced by their teaching or helping the younger ones.

It is very beneficial for children to go the Montessori programme right up to grade 12. There are not a lot of schools that take the children to that level, though.

After my stint at the elementary school in Kelowna I opened a small school in that city. Unfortunately, the school where I had my classroom needed to space for their own school, which was not Montessori. I was unable to find a suitable space anywhere in Kelowna. There are quite strict guidelines as to what the space must be. My husband had quit his job in order for me to take this job, and with no job and no income, we decided to move back to the coast. In the meantime, my husband had started to do some contract work with his old firm, and in talking to the principals, they asked him if he would like to go back to his job.

So we packed up and moved back to the coast. We bought a house specifically for me to open a school. I did not want to go the the process of finding a space, only to have it taken away from me again.

I would have liked to have continued the school for a bit longer, but I found that my patience seemed to be wearing thin, and that was not a good sign. So I closed the school. That was one reason. The other was that it was becoming harder to attract students. Parents wanted full-day care, and a preschool is allowed to operate only four hours a day. I thought about doing daycare, but I was told that I didn't have anywhere to put the beds which were required.

The Montessori system benefits most when the children are in attendance all day, five days a week. I was pressured when I began to open only three days a week. I did this to get the school going. For some reason parents think that little Johnny is not able to work for 5 days. After a while I had the children five days a week.

I would strongly suggest that you look into it. I think from what I have read here, you would be a wonderful Montessori Directress (they are called directors or directresses, not teachers, because they direct the children, not teach them). But if you do, try to locate and AMI programme. Good luck.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband pushed for girls to have the opportunity to study "shop" subjects. He had a girls' shop club before they were allowed to take the formal classes. He also pushed the Vo-Tech to accept girls in the classes, and they have welders, auto body technicians, and diesel mechanics without Y chromosomes now. We know women blacksmiths as well.


My daughter took woodworking in high school. She was afraid of the tools, however, so just took it for one year. My son is a wonderful woodworker and has an elaborate shop on my daughter's property. He is an excellent teacher and has taught his sister much. She can not go into the shop and make beautiful boxes which she decorates with pressed flowers. I think she is still a bit apprehensive with the power tools, but her brother has instilled in her safety first.

Girls should be exposed to the trades, after all that is where the money is. Boys should be exposed to domestic science, so that they can fend for themselves.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I don't know how old you are, bonbf3, but I didn't get my certificate until I was 56. So you are never too old. I was the oldest in the class and the youngest was 19.
> 
> I first taught in an elementary school in Kelowna, BC. I was hired because I had taken the AMI training, that is the Association Montessori International. (If you are thinking of doing this, I would strongly advise that you search out an AMI training school. Over the years the programme has been altered to "suit the children of the day." But the AMI programme has been taught world wide, just as Maria Montessori developed it.) I taught, or rather directed, kindergarten, grade 1 and grade 2.
> 
> ...


Blue Jay, you are a dear to encourage me. Sorry to say, I'm 70 now, and I don't think I'd have the energy to teach all day every day. But I did love it, as I can tell you did. I know what you mean about patience - mine has dwindled a bit, too.

I notice it with my grandchildren. I love them dearly, but there are times when I would have much less patience than my children do. I'm just thankful they have it!

Do you still have little ones to visit with? I don't know your age, but if you started teaching at 56, maybe you have grandchildren? What a nice husband - to leave his job so that you could open a school.

Speaking of little ones, one of our granddaughters is here right, and I must get back to her. She's not so little - 9 and in fourth grade - and today was the first day of school. Such an exciting day! I'm sure you remember that part!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Impress us with more words. Your predecessor would have had a zillion. What a Yiddishe cup she had.


Carrot and stick.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Carrot and stick.


I will need Purl to translate your Yiddish for me.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> My daughter took woodworking in high school. She was afraid of the tools, however, so just took it for one year. My son is a wonderful woodworker and has an elaborate shop on my daughter's property. He is an excellent teacher and has taught his sister much. She can not go into the shop and make beautiful boxes which she decorates with pressed flowers. I think she is still a bit apprehensive with the power tools, but her brother has instilled in her safety first.
> 
> Girls should be exposed to the trades, after all that is where the money is. Boys should be exposed to domestic science, so that they can fend for themselves.


Our daughter was exposed to tools early. I have a picture of her as a toddler holding a pair of pliers and ready to use them. It came from my side of the family, too. Dad had me as his helper with household repairs. And at NYU I took a couple of shop classes as electives. One was Home Mechanics Crafts where I learned to change a faucet washer, put new chain on a double hung window, wire a lamp, and repair a leaky toilet among other things. Daughter repaired her own bike and the valves on the brass instrument she played in marching band. Husband always told female students that "Your plumbing doesn't affect how your hands and brain work. You can do whatever you want, or at the least give it a try." It carried over to other areas, too. Daughter and several of his former students are in "nontraditional" fields of work. A fellow NYU shop department friend of my husband has a daughter with an engineering degree who was the lead engineer in a project involving the transportation system in a major US city.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Impress us with more words. Your predecessor would have had a zillion. What a Yiddishe cup she had.


I hope my latest knitting project doesn't turn out like a schmatta. Don't know spelling.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I will need Purl to translate your Yiddish for me.


This is obvious. The Yiddish for carrot is "mer," which also means more. And stick, or shtik, is well known. So "carrot and stick" means "more shtik" or maybe "more foolishness." Unless it's French and means "mer shtik" or fooling around in the ocean.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This is obvious. The Yiddish for carrot is "mer," which also means more. And stick, or shtik, is well known. So "carrot and stick" means "more shtik" or maybe "more foolishness." Unless it's French and means "mer shtik" or fooling around in the ocean.


Ha Ha Chortle Chortle Happy Happy Giggle Giggle Smiling Smiling


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Chortle Chortle Happy Happy Giggle Giggle Smiling Smiling


Was that sarcastic?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Blue Jay, you are a dear to encourage me. Sorry to say, I'm 70 now, and I don't think I'd have the energy to teach all day every day. But I did love it, as I can tell you did. I know what you mean about patience - mine has dwindled a bit, too.
> 
> I notice it with my grandchildren. I love them dearly, but there are times when I would have much less patience than my children do. I'm just thankful they have it!
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks. I don't have cukes on hand right now, but is will substitute them with a cold washcloth. I will have to get some when I go to the market. Our weather just started to get dryer, so it's that mixed with little sleep lately.
> 
> TTFN! Ta Ta For Now!


Hope you can get some rest and feel better.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha Chortle Chortle Happy Happy Giggle Giggle Smiling Smiling


I haven't fooled around in the ocean in some time, it makes my feet cramp. 
Besides I have nobody to go with.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Was that sarcastic?


No, what you wrote was very amusing. Why else would I be laughing? Plus I don't do sarcasm well.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> No, what you wrote was very amusing. Why else would I be laughing? Plus I don't do sarcasm well.


Sarcasm doesn't work on the internet. Some of us keep on trying, however.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Blue Jay, you are a dear to encourage me. Sorry to say, I'm 70 now, and I don't think I'd have the energy to teach all day every day. But I did love it, as I can tell you did. I know what you mean about patience - mine has dwindled a bit, too.
> 
> I notice it with my grandchildren. I love them dearly, but there are times when I would have much less patience than my children do. I'm just thankful they have it!
> 
> ...


I am 72 and neither of my children has married, so I have no grandchildren. I occasionally "babysit" for a friend of mine who runs a daycare. I must say that after the Montessori experience I find the daycare rather dull. The children just play all day with no real focus. What a shame. I would love to teach them how to do the laundry, do the ironing, use beads to teach them numbers. But it is not my responsibility, so I just show them what I can.

Have fun with your grandchildren.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I am 72 and neither of my children has married, so I have no grandchildren. I occasionally "babysit" for a friend of mine who runs a daycare. I must say that after the Montessori experience I find the daycare rather dull. The children just play all day with no real focus. What a shame. I would love to teach them how to do the laundry, do the ironing, use beads to teach them numbers. But it is not my responsibility, so I just show them what I can.
> 
> Have fun with your grandchildren.


Thank you, BlueJay21. I have really enjoyed this conversation with you.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Thank you, BlueJay21. I have really enjoyed this conversation with you.


You are welcome.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.

/Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
AFP Wednesday 6 August 2014 06:31:05 PM 
 
	Commuters tilt a train to free a passenger's leg trapped between the train and the platform in Perth, as shown in this frame grab from a video released on August 6, 2014 by the Public Transport Authority of Western Australia.


Advertisement
Dozens of Australians tilted a train Wednesday to free a commuter whose leg was trapped between a carriage and a platform, with authorities praising their efforts as an example of "people power".
The man was boarding in the Western Australia city of Perth when he slipped and became jammed in the five-centimetre (two-inch) gap between the carriage and the station, operator Transperth said in a statement.
Passengers were initially told to move to the opposite side of the train in the hope their weight would shift it away from his leg, a passenger who gave his name as Nic told The West Australian newspaper.
But when that failed, staff told commuters to get off the train and about 50 of them lined up in a row along the platform to tilt the carriage away from the man so he could be lifted out.
"It is the first time we've seen something like this happen," Transperth spokeswoman Claire Krol told AFP.
"We were really fortunate that the staff were there straight away... and all of the passengers not only listened to the instructions from staff, but pitched in and helped.
"This is a real case of passengers of working together... and people power are the perfect words to describe it." 
Transperth said the man was treated by paramedics but was able to catch a later train.
"The end result here is: really lucky for the man involved, but really nice as well to see that everyone came together as a community," Krol added.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There is lots of good in the world.



EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.
> 
> /Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
> Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
> ...


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.
> 
> /Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
> Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
> ...


I think this was the perfect place to share this! Thanks!

People are amazing social creatures in so many ways. Sometime for good, sometimes not so much. I always like to hear about the good, I try to think that more people are that way than aren't.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.
> 
> /Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
> Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
> ...


Thanks, Eve. It's nice to read a "feel-good" story.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I like how civilized Aussies are. But I think the same thing would happen in NYC. New Yorkers seem willing to jump into the fray. We also have the gap at some stations. But a warning is printed on the floor by the exits. But usually so many people are exiting that it can be overlooked.

Definitely nice to read about people doing the right thing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I like how civilized Aussies are. But I think the same thing would happen in NYC. New Yorkers seem willing to jump into the fray. We also have the gap at some stations. But a warning is printed on the floor by the exits. But usually so many people are exiting that it can be overlooked.
> 
> Definitely nice to read about people doing the right thing.


Some New Yorkers will jump into the fray; others won't want to give up their seats.

It's a great story and a great picture.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

It's a very heartwarming story. I'm so glad the man is all right.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Some New Yorkers will jump into the fray; others won't want to give up their seats.
> 
> It's a great story and a great picture.


Ha Ha. I am mixed about being offered a seat. Of course I prefer to sit but it is happening more and more and so I must be an old bag. Jeepers Creepers!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. I am mixed about being offered a seat. Of course I prefer to sit but it is happening more and more and so I must be an old bag. Jeepers Creepers!


Maybe all of those handsome young dudes want you to notice them.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Maybe all of those handsome young dudes want you to notice them.


I cannot stand your sounding so positive.

A friend of mine in Chicago stands in front of the best looking guy on public transportation and says she is feeling light-headed and can she please have his seat. She is 67 and a half.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.
> 
> /Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
> Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
> ...


Saw this on the news tonight. Wonderful story and so relieved for the man who was rescued.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I do not know if this is the correct place to post this but I like feel good stories and I think this is definitely a feel good story.
> 
> /Top+Stories/?sid=jndfkt4kp7tk2c2qhcth9d85a7 http://www.news.net/article/1722492&referid=114
> Trapped commuter freed after bystanders tilt train
> ...


EveMCooke
THANK YOU. We need more stories like this one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And with the unilateral emphasis on academics, who is expected to become skilled mechanics to repair our cars, carpenters to install our kitchens, horticulturalists to beautify our environment, electricians to keep our houses from burning down, and on and on? We have to rebuild society's respect for people who do more than push papers around or have very muscular thumbs.


MarilynKnits
we need Apprenticeships of all sorts and get away from pushing everyone into College. That only helps colleges to grow and Banks to flourish and not society.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.

=======
I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn. 

I took 4 full garbage bags of yarn, to the Local knitting store to be shared with a Knitting group that knits for charity and does wonderful work. I sorted it out the past two days and have hardly made a dent in my yarn. Once I am sure we are going I WILL GET RID OF MORE- I WILL, IWILL, I WILL.!!!!! It is like giving away my children!

Anyway, tomorrow I want to get my Kitchen sorted as well as both Bathrooms. Then we will be finished with the first sorting. On Sat. if we get good results, we will take what we have saved and cut it in half. 

I have been getting information from the Bank, Post office our health care in this Province and the differences in BC. and will contact a moving company to find out the costs. i also have to arrange for someone to take some furniture we don't want to some charity that can use the things we down want ship out there. Lots to do. 

I figure I can drop around for a bit if I am not too tired tomorrow and Friday evening once I have the results. Keep your good thoughts for us.


To be absolutely honest, I am burnt out. It has been constant since April 13 - tests and appointments for both of us. Friday will be the last appointment except to see our family doctor to discuss all the different results for both of us. I am not enjoying the Political threads that much although I still find I want to answer posts that I disagree with. I am just weary and ready for a few days' break.

I find it hard to stay away from WOW - I think most of you understand that. I have cut back but not enough. This is a good thread and I think it is nice to have a place to go where there is no dissension or nastiness. 

See you later (likely for a few minutes tomorrow night here]. I will also let you know what I learn on Friday. I am hopeful, but not absolutely sure I am right. 

Think of me sorting and throwing away lots of stuff in my kitchen.!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.
> 
> =======
> I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn.
> ...


Good luck.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. I am mixed about being offered a seat. Of course I prefer to sit but it is happening more and more and so I must be an old bag. Jeepers Creepers!


Being an older bag hasn't worked for me. I got on a crowded bus today and had to stand all the way from Second Ave. to the other side of the park, right in front of two young things in their twenties who never noticed I was there. I should learn from your friend.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.
> 
> =======
> I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn.
> ...


I'm hoping along with you, but I don't envy you the work. We moved here in 1970, and whenever I think of moving, I have a good stiff drink and let the thought die down.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> we need Apprenticeships of all sorts and get away from pushing everyone into College. That only helps colleges to grow and Banks to flourish and not society.


I totally agree!! We need more vocational schools, and yet the ones we do have are closing their doors. Our priorities are messed up, IMHO. I believe that Europe pushes people to go into a trade (vocation/apprenticeships) rather than everyone getting a four year university degree. Or at least that's how it used to be done. Start here with having more "trade" classes in high school. While everyone should have at least a basic understanding of all subjects, they should be encouraged to find things they are good at. Then and only then can they go on to excel at something. So many kids get lost, fail out, or get into trouble in college bc they are not in the right place for them. When I was in school, most universities had a 20% drop-out rate amongst freshman. It was much lower for transfer students, bc they had already had enough experience to make an educated decision of what they wanted to do.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.
> 
> =======
> I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn.
> ...


Thanks for letting us know designer!

It sounds like everything is coming along nicely. I'm glad. I think most of us hate downsizing, especially our yarn! I'm totally with you on feeling like they are your children.

I can't write too much, but it wanted to say Im thinking of you and my thoughts are with you and dh. I'm sure everything will work out splendidly. Keep me posted!

Oh, and I don't blame you for not wanting to go on wow. Honestly, this is my favorite hang out spot. Until my eyes get totally better, it's probably the only place I'll frequent (besides the threads I started and whatnot). You need to think about your health and BP. RELAX! Take a load off! Lol! But seriously, take care of YOURSELF. We all want you to be well.

HUGS HUGS HUGS


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Best of luck from the top priorities right on down to the least.



Designer1234 said:


> That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.
> 
> =======
> I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn.
> ...


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

And how are you doing? Did you get rested, visuals better?



Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for letting us know designer!
> 
> It sounds like everything is coming along nicely. I'm glad. I think most of us hate downsizing, especially our yarn! I'm totally with you on feeling like they are your children.
> 
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> That picture speaks a thousand words. I think they should all be applauded. Amazing what people can do when they work together.
> 
> =======
> I won't be on line much the next couple of days. We are hoping to sort out and downsize our belongings in the next 3 weeks. On Friday I get my results and If my feelings are true, I think we will be able to go to BC to be close to our Grand daughter. We decided this week to downsize anyway as we have too much accumulation of knick knacks from traveling, books and many many boxes of yarn.
> ...


I hope you get good results on Friday. I don't blame you for being tired of tests.

Good luck with all your sorting - not an easy job, but rewarding in the end.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> And how are you doing? Did you get rested, visuals better?


Visuals are a little better, I'm trying to take it easy. Dh made dinner tonight, so that was a big help, especially since I chopped onions this afternoon for granny's scrambles. Those always make my eyes worse. Oy vey! Oh well. Se la vie. 
I was able to catch up a little on what's been going on, and maintain a thread I started on cast ons. Very useful information, and I was happy to see that others benefited as well. 
Fortunately i was able to see well enough to get the spots on the laundry (I hope) and do some knitting. For some reason, even though it is difficult to read, even when I make the print bigger, I can still knit at least in dk. I think it's bc of the small lines of the symbols and them being so close together. I also am working on a lace projects, so the wholes makes the rows and sts easier to distinguish. I guess I compensate. Let's just say, I've learned that when my vision is doing poorly in general, I need to place lifelines closer together. Live it, learn it! But I haven't made a mistake in a few repeats. <knock on wood>.

Anyways, thanks for asking. Sorry if I over shared.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Visuals are a little better, I'm trying to take it easy. Dh made dinner tonight, so that was a big help, especially since I chopped onions this afternoon for granny's scrambles. Those always make my eyes worse. Oy vey! Oh well. Se la vie.
> I was able to catch up a little on what's been going on, and maintain a thread I started on cast ons. Very useful information, and I was happy to see that others benefited as well.
> Fortunately i was able to see well enough to get the spots on the laundry (I hope) and do some knitting. For some reason, even though it is difficult to read, even when I make the print bigger, I can still knit at least in dk. I think it's bc of the small lines of the symbols and them being so close together. I also am working on a lace projects, so the wholes makes the rows and sts easier to distinguish. I guess I compensate. Let's just say, I've learned that when my vision is doing poorly in general, I need to place lifelines closer together. Live it, learn it! But I haven't made a mistake in a few repeats. <knock on wood>.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for asking. Sorry if I over shared.


You certainly seem to do well when your eyes are bothering you. I hope it's better soon.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I hope you get good results on Friday. I don't blame you for being tired of tests.
> 
> Good luck with all your sorting - not an easy job, but rewarding in the end.


Thanks Bonnie -- I need to take a break. I am finding it hard not to get involved on WOW so work on my sorting will help.

I am amazed at how difficult it is to ignore what goes on there. It is sad.

I will let you know what my results are tomorrow. I am hopeful that I am correct and that things are relatively good. If so we start packing and away we go to 
Vancouver Island. My son and family leave next wednesday.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You didn't overshare, small talk is what makes the world go round, right?
Have you tried all the silly little tricks for avoiding eye irritation with onions? cold water, whatever? 
Sounds as if you accomplished plenty anyway. 
Ah to be young and energetic.



Natureschampion said:


> Visuals are a little better, I'm trying to take it easy. Dh made dinner tonight, so that was a big help, especially since I chopped onions this afternoon for granny's scrambles. Those always make my eyes worse. Oy vey! Oh well. Se la vie.
> I was able to catch up a little on what's been going on, and maintain a thread I started on cast ons. Very useful information, and I was happy to see that others benefited as well.
> Fortunately i was able to see well enough to get the spots on the laundry (I hope) and do some knitting. For some reason, even though it is difficult to read, even when I make the print bigger, I can still knit at least in dk. I think it's bc of the small lines of the symbols and them being so close together. I also am working on a lace projects, so the wholes makes the rows and sts easier to distinguish. I guess I compensate. Let's just say, I've learned that when my vision is doing poorly in general, I need to place lifelines closer together. Live it, learn it! But I haven't made a mistake in a few repeats. <knock on wood>.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for asking. Sorry if I over shared.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> You certainly seem to do well when your eyes are bothering you. I hope it's better soon.


Thanks, Bonnie! I have learned to compensate, and have TRIED to learn to not overdo it. But you know what they say about "old dogs." Lol!

I look forward to being back to my old self soon (hopefully) and to converse more with you all. I do have some questions I would like to ask, but right now I don't have the "eye strength" to follow your responses as I'd like. Soon, though.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> You didn't overshare, small talk is what makes the world go round, right?
> Have you tried all the silly little tricks for avoiding eye irritation with onions? cold water, whatever?
> Sounds as if you accomplished plenty anyway.
> Ah to be young and energetic.


I usually do let the cold water run when I'm chopping/slicing onions, but then I usually use my food processor to do it quickly. It somewhat helps, but my eyes still run a lot. Yesterday I was only chopping up half an onion and foolishly thought I would be ok. I think I would have been if my eyes weren't so bad. Do you know of any other " tricks"? I love onions and they are one of the healthiest things for you. It's weird, bc as a kid the only onions I liked were in French onion soup. I couldn't stand raw or even grilled onions. Now, I love them and use eating salad as an excuse to eat raw onions. Lol! It's interesting how our tastes change.

Being energetic is a wonderful, and somewhat new, feeling to have. For over a decade and up until a year and a half ago, I didn't have energy to do anything. So maybe I overcompensate? Although as a kid I always had too much energy.

Ok, back to work. I will try to catch up with y,all later!

Btw, if anyone wishes to discuss something, it might be easier for me to PM. They are a bit easier to follow and respond to for me.

Lots of love and hugs.

NC


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Bonnie -- I need to take a break. I am finding it hard not to get involved on WOW so work on my sorting will help.
> 
> I am amazed at how difficult it is to ignore what goes on there. It is sad.
> 
> ...


Waiting for results is hard. I'm saying a prayer for you, Shirley. By the way, I posted on Wow. What have I done!
:shock:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for letting us know designer!
> 
> It sounds like everything is coming along nicely. I'm glad. I think most of us hate downsizing, especially our yarn! I'm totally with you on feeling like they are your children.
> 
> ...


------------------------
I haven't done a very good job of avoiding WOW. I will try again to stay away . It is so easy to read something that you disagree completely with, and post something back at the person you disagree with. I know that it is counterproductive, and that minds will never be changed. Not sure why we post there. Not sure why I find it difficult to stay off that thread. Others seem to have the same problem. I will try again and hopefully have enough will power to stay away.

Meanwhile - tomorrow is the big day and hopefully tomorrow later in the day I can post some good results and we can carry on planning a move in a month or two.

Even if we cant move far away, we have managed to get rid of a huge amount of unnecessary 'stuff'.

I hope you are feeling better and that your eyes are feeling better. Take care of yourself.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Again, bon chance for tomorrow. You have a great attitude.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Waiting for results is hard. I'm saying a prayer for you, Shirley. By the way, I posted on Wow. What have I done!
> :shock:


Oh Bon. I haven't been able to stay away either. I guess the only way it works is if we never read it. You were much nicer with your post than I was.

I got the front and back nearly done on a new pullover. I plan on teaching a very simple pattern when my life settles down, on a new workshop. It is the same basic pattern as the dishcloth cotton short sleeve summer sweater I made a few years ago. People are still asking for a class, so I am making a long sleeved pullover and writing down how I do it. It is a very simple (not top down) sweater and is done by measurements rather than stitch count. So we build it by measurements rather than stitch count.


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Am I dense? What is WOW? People keep referring to it and I have no idea what they are talking about.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

War on Women #16 thread. Rough riding there.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I think that the reason we post there is because for a while we of relatively like mind post as a group and everything is pretty comfortable.



Designer1234 said:


> ------------------------
> I haven't done a very good job of avoiding WOW. I will try again to stay away . It is so easy to read something that you disagree completely with, and post something back at the person you disagree with. I know that it is counterproductive, and that minds will never be changed. Not sure why we post there. Not sure why I find it difficult to stay off that thread. Others seem to have the same problem. I will try again and hopefully have enough will power to stay away.
> 
> Meanwhile - tomorrow is the big day and hopefully tomorrow later in the day I can post some good results and we can carry on planning a move in a month or two.
> ...


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> Am I dense? What is WOW? People keep referring to it and I have no idea what they are talking about.


War on Women thread


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Waiting for results is hard. I'm saying a prayer for you, Shirley. By the way, I posted on Wow. What have I done!
> :shock:


Nothing, as far as I could tell. Boy, was I disappointed. :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I got all inspired by a sweaterbabe email and then lost the pattern I was going to substitute for hers. 
Sheesh, back on the hunt.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I think that the reason we post there is because for a while we of relatively like mind post as a group and everything is pretty comfortable.


Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> War on Women thread


#16, I think. 
But run for cover, be afraid. Be very afraid.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


All the more reason to hunt up my pattern. I need some distractions from work and my wait.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Am I dense? What is WOW? People keep referring to it and I have no idea what they are talking about.


The thread "War on women "


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


You two are quite a pair.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I think that the reason we post there is because for a while we of relatively like mind post as a group and everything is pretty comfortable.


I agree. I know that there are like minded people (friends, there) who cover our backs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You two are quite a pair.


So are you and that cat. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> All the more reason to hunt up my pattern. I need some distractions from work and my wait.


What are you waiting for?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So are you and that cat. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Thanks to you!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


Poor Purl
oh you two, a marriage made in Heaven.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> oh you two, a marriage made in Heaven.


Isn't it, Huck? Well, we're both math people.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks to you!!


I know. I've turned you into


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I know. I've turned you into


right -!! not sure it is a good thing. But it is fun.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh Bon. I haven't been able to stay away either. I guess the only way it works is if we never read it. You were much nicer with your post than I was.
> 
> I got the front and back nearly done on a new pullover. I plan on teaching a very simple pattern when my life settles down, on a new workshop. It is the same basic pattern as the dishcloth cotton short sleeve summer sweater I made a few years ago. People are still asking for a class, so I am making a long sleeved pullover and writing down how I do it. It is a very simple (not top down) sweater and is done by measurements rather than stitch count. So we build it by measurements rather than a pattern . We follow our measurements. Works very well.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I quite like that one.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> I quite like that one.


I was thinking the same thing.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thankyou. It was an interesting knit. I had all sorts of discloth cotton, and wondered what kind of sweater it would make. I have worn it and the other two I made every spring and autumn since. It doesn't change its shape and doesn't shrink. It is quite heavy but at the same time very comfortable.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou. It was an interesting knit. I had all sorts of discloth cotton, and wondered what kind of sweater it would make. I have worn it and the other two I made every spring and autumn since. It doesn't change its shape and doesn't shrink. It is quite heavy but at the same time very comfortable.


I have yet to do your workshops and this latest interests me. But I am knitting something else so I would not be able to do a Knit-Along. Does it still make sense to take it? If so, sign me up.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have yet to do your workshops and this latest interests me. But I am knitting something else so I would not be able to do a Knit-Along. Does it still make sense to take it? If so, sign me up.


I won't be opening a workshop until we have either moved to Vancouver Island or to another apartment here or close by. but when I do I will let you all know. It will likely be in NOvember unless something changes.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Until we're accused of ganging up on whoever. I've tried to get us out of there, but for some reason that's the place people go. It's where the elite meet, like me and joeysomma.


Oh, so that's where your lair is!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer, that's a really lovely sweater. If you do it in a workshop, I'd like to be there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Oh, so that's where your lair is!!


It's also where .... sheesh, it's NB. I can't write what I started to.

Missed you - were you doing something adult for a while?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's also where .... sheesh, it's NB. I can't write what I started to.
> 
> Missed you - were you doing something adult for a while?


Not sure how to answer that one, ma'am--you know where my mind typically falls. I did finish up a baby hat for dsil's brother and his wife. I kind of got a look at the dismal number of UFO's, in knitting, crochet, beading, and quilting.

Thanks for the acknowledgment. Hope you've been, ah, behaving yourself??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am totally bored with it.



Knitanon said:


> #16, I think.
> But run for cover, be afraid. Be very afraid.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Not sure how to answer that one, ma'am--you know where my mind typically falls. I did finish up a baby hat for dsil's brother and his wife. I kind of got a look at the dismal number of UFO's, in knitting, crochet, beading, and quilting.
> 
> Thanks for the acknowledgment. Hope you've been, ah, behaving yourself??


I've been behaving, but I won't say like what.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been behaving, but I won't say like what.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I am totally bored with it.


You know, come to think of it I haven't missed it at all since I've been "taking it easy".

I was going to say more but decided against it. As PP said, it's NB. And besides, it's not worth my eyesight.


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thanks, ladies, for filling me in on WoW. It sounds like a dreadful place to go. If it is that bad I should give it a miss.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been behaving, but I won't say like what.


 :shock: :shock: :shock: no comment!!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Ok, I have a point of discussion for y'all:

Last week at the bank, I got to the door first and held it open for dh (which I always do." He told me he hates when I do that. My rule is that if I am the first person to the door, I hold it open. I guess I hold it open more than that bc there are so many people nowadays (men and women) who do not hold the door for people. Too many IMO. There are people I will rush ahead of in order to hold the door for, of course. Maybe sometimes I will walk a little faster so I can do it for dh. Hehe

Dh said that a man should always hold the door. I reminded him they also say "age before beauty" as he is older than I. ;-). 

Anyways, what do you think? How often do people get the door for you? Who do you think, if anyone, has the bigger obligation to hold the door? I know a lot of you grew up at a time when people actually displayed manners, so feel free to compare now to yesteryear. If you don't think there has been a change, great! If you do, why do you think that is? It would be interesting also to share your experiences, observations and thoughts in the context of other manners and such.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> Thanks, ladies, for filling me in on WoW. It sounds like a dreadful place to go. If it is that bad I should give it a miss.


Stick around here. You'll love it! I don't know if we met. I think you joined/rejoined at the same time that I had to take a hiatus,

So, welcome! Or Welcome back if that's the case! You will have great fun here if you are not already (sorry, I don't have the visual strength to read everything I missed and converse with people. I know that's rude, please forgive me.), which I'm sure you are. The people here are wonderful, equitable and intelligent, or at least they are here.  :wink:

I look forward to getting to know you! I will be popping in and out over the next few days. See you around!


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, I have a point of discussion for y'all:
> 
> Last week at the bank, I got to the door first and held it open for dh (which I always do." He told me he hates when I do that. My rule is that if I am the first person to the door, I hold it open. I guess I hold it open more than that bc there are so many people nowadays (men and women) who do not hold the door for people. Too many IMO. There are people I will rush ahead of in order to hold the door for, of course. Maybe sometimes I will walk a little faster so I can do it for dh. Hehe
> 
> ...


I say that the person who gets there first holds the door. I made the mistake many years ago in objecting to a man holding the door for me. (I was in my radical feminist phase.) He said that he enjoyed doing this, so now I just kind of play it by ear.

But what really annoys me is when a stranger goes through first and does not check to see if someone is behind him/her and lets the door close. Manners just don't seem to be taught anywhere these days.

I have always been independent, but sometimes that is not OK. Sometimes we have to let the men to the "man" things. It makes them feel important. So, if your husband likes to hold the door for you, I would let him.


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Stick around here. You'll love it! I don't know if we met. I think you joined/rejoined at the same time that I had to take a hiatus,
> 
> So, welcome! Or Welcome back if that's the case! You will have great fun here if you are not already (sorry, I don't have the visual strength to read everything I missed and converse with people. I know that's rude, please forgive me.), which I'm sure you are. The people here are wonderful, equitable and intelligent, or at least they are here.  :wink:
> 
> I look forward to getting to know you! I will be popping in and out over the next few days. See you around!


Thanks, NC. I have been around for a while. In fact I posted the first entry, I think, when SQM suggested this thread. I just don't have a lot to say most days, although I enjoy the chatter from others. And then some days I can't shut up.

Sorry to hear about your eyes. I hope they improve.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, I have a point of discussion for y'all:
> 
> Last week at the bank, I got to the door first and held it open for dh (which I always do." He told me he hates when I do that. My rule is that if I am the first person to the door, I hold it open. I guess I hold it open more than that bc there are so many people nowadays (men and women) who do not hold the door for people. Too many IMO. There are people I will rush ahead of in order to hold the door for, of course. Maybe sometimes I will walk a little faster so I can do it for dh. Hehe
> 
> ...


My husband has a habit of opening the door for others but standing in front of it in such a way that they can't get past him to leave. Dear NC, is it okay for me to kick him when he does that?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> I am totally bored with it.


Well, that's OK. We all get into spiteful, childish mode at different times. That is why nobody can put an end to this, it seems to me.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, I have a point of discussion for y'all:
> 
> Last week at the bank, I got to the door first and held it open for dh (which I always do." He told me he hates when I do that. My rule is that if I am the first person to the door, I hold it open. I guess I hold it open more than that bc there are so many people nowadays (men and women) who do not hold the door for people. Too many IMO. There are people I will rush ahead of in order to hold the door for, of course. Maybe sometimes I will walk a little faster so I can do it for dh. Hehe
> 
> ...


I think that gender based obligation went out the window for the most part, except perhaps for a couple. It is one small way for a man to demonstrate a bit of respect. 
Not a major point, remember though, I am old. 
I hold the door for people and people hold the door for me wherever I go. Generally, the "recipient" of the courtesy steps up the walking pace a bit in return.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Well, that's OK. We all get into spiteful, childish mode at different times. That is why nobody can put an end to this, it seems to me.


That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.

Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I am sure you are correct.


Wombatnomore said:


> That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.
> 
> Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.[/quote]

Again.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Sort of a double post. I will get the hang of this one of these days.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I am sure you are correct. Men never have an issue with getting along at work or any other setting (say sports) they never get nasty, they just beat the living daylights out of each other.



Wombatnomore said:


> That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.
> 
> Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been behaving, but I won't say like what.


I will, a pig.

Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.

It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've got to admit I'm slower than I used to be. I'm old enough that I remember men opening car doors and building doors routinely. My guess is that men from that era would feel robbed of their manhood if a woman raced them to the door and teased about it. IMHO

If any person looks as they might appreciate a bit of help, I always jump in.....a stroller or cart, arms full, etc. And I always (automatically ) say 'Thank you ' when anyone assists me in any way.

You're right. It sticks with you over the years.

It pleases me to no end when a child opens a door, says 'please or thank you,' or shows a knowledge of manners.

Thanks for the question.



Natureschampion said:


> Ok, I have a point of discussion for y'all:
> 
> Last week at the bank, I got to the door first and held it open for dh (which I always do." He told me he hates when I do that. My rule is that if I am the first person to the door, I hold it open. I guess I hold it open more than that bc there are so many people nowadays (men and women) who do not hold the door for people. Too many IMO. There are people I will rush ahead of in order to hold the door for, of course. Maybe sometimes I will walk a little faster so I can do it for dh. Hehe
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> My husband has a habit of opening the door for others but standing in front of it in such a way that they can't get past him to leave. Dear NC, is it okay for me to kick him when he does that?


May I insert myself into the conversation? Dear PP, in my opinion it is required that partners helpfully point out these idiosyncrasies to one another, so I think a quick kick and run approach is best.

My DH favors a kind verbal reminder.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> May I insert myself into the conversation? Dear PP, in my opinion it is required that partners helpfully point out these idiosyncrasies to one another, so I think a quick kick and run approach is best.
> 
> My DH favors a kind verbal reminder.


An ascending hierarchy of reminders might be best.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.
> 
> Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


My experience with a group of women is different. I find a group of women to be collaborative and supportive of one another. I enjoy it a great deal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Personally I see this remark (snark) as a clear violation of the intention of this thread.

KPG, you show your manners by how you apologize.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


Oh darn, and here I thought you didn't call people names!!!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> Personally I see this remark (snark) as a clear violation of the intention of this thread.
> 
> KPG, you show your manners by how you apologize.


Now we see why she needs to deny herself participation on this thread. No self control. 
Personally, I see this post as another indicator of anti-Semitism. 
It is a typical neo-Nazi tactic to do things like smear pigs blood and entrails on the possessions of people within those groups who reject pigs and their products.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

And I apologize, SQM, for posting what might be construed as out of bounds. If you want to set some consequence I will gladly accommodate your wishes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

An apology is owed. This is Neutral Bridges.



Cindy S said:


> Oh darn, and here I thought you didn't call people names!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

An apology should be forthcoming.



Knitanon said:


> Now we see why she needs to deny herself participation on this thread. No self control.
> Personally, I see this post as another indicator of anti-Semitism.
> It is a typical neo-Nazi tactic to do things like smear pigs blood and entrails on the possessions of people within those groups who reject pigs and their products.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> An apology should be forthcoming.


I think the chips need to fall as they may.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Anxious to see outcome.



Knitanon said:


> I think the chips need to fall as they may.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


Tut! Tut!

Leave your name calling to the other sites.

Switzerland was not Switzerland either since they were laundering money for the Nazis. Please let us put our differences aside here and enjoy being friendly.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


And thank you, dear one, for messing on the bridge.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Tut! Tut!
> 
> Leave your name calling to the other sites.
> 
> Switzerland was not Switzerland either since they were laundering money for the Nazis. Please let us put our differences aside here and enjoy being friendly.


Hi SQM, I didn't name call. I responded to her that she behaved like an animal, because she acted like one to a dear and wonderful friend of mine on another thread. I, like many, recognize the hypocrisy of this thread and will defend any of my friends who are unaware.

As to Switzerland - I meant in the context of politics and war - not banking.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

What happens on Wow should stay in Wow. 

Why do people use animals to insult each other? They for the most part treat each other better than humans do. And don't ruin the planet.

There is no hypocrisy here from what I can see. It is the rare exception that someone forgets the purpose of this oasis and then others are available to remind the person. No name calling, no hypocrisy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> What happens on Wow should stay in Wow.
> 
> Why do people use animals to insult each other? They for the most part treat each other better than humans do. And don't ruin the planet.


to the first - ah, but it doesn't though, does it?

to the second - I agree!


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> What happens on Wow should stay in Wow.
> 
> Why do people use animals to insult each other? They for the most part treat each other better than humans do. And don't ruin the planet.


Hear! Hear! This is something I have often pondered.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> What happens on Wow should stay in Wow.
> 
> Why do people use animals to insult each other? They for the most part treat each other better than humans do. And don't ruin the planet.


So very true.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


Being your usual pleasant self, I see. NOT.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> Thanks, NC. I have been around for a while. In fact I posted the first entry, I think, when SQM suggested this thread. I just don't have a lot to say most days, although I enjoy the chatter from others. And then some days I can't shut up.
> 
> Sorry to hear about your eyes. I hope they improve.


Ok! Well nice to meet you! Come to think of it I may recall reading a post or 2 of yours here and there. I'm almost certain now I have also seen you on this and other threads. I totally know what you mean.

Thanks! They seem to be I proving a bit each day. The hardest thing is staying away from here!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok! Well nice to meet you! Come to think of it I may recall reading a post or 2 of yours here and there. I'm almost certain now I have also seen you on this and other threads. I totally know what you mean.
> 
> Thanks! They seem to be I proving a bit each day. The hardest thing is staying away from here!


Oh sure, and now you turn up! I just took your name in vain over on WOW.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> I say that the person who gets there first holds the door. I made the mistake many years ago in objecting to a man holding the door for me. (I was in my radical feminist phase.) He said that he enjoyed doing this, so now I just kind of play it by ear.
> 
> But what really annoys me is when a stranger goes through first and does not check to see if someone is behind him/her and lets the door close. Manners just don't seem to be taught anywhere these days.
> 
> I have always been independent, but sometimes that is not OK. Sometimes we have to let the men to the "man" things. It makes them feel important. So, if your husband likes to hold the door for you, I would let him.


I always thought manners should be universal, and one should always be polite. Others disregard for this just makes it more important for me to display it.

That irks me to no end. Or when you are approaching a door and someone is coming through the other side and is there first, and then WAITs until you get there so you can open it. I don't know why, but it does irritate me more when a man does it. I think, "they should have been raised better." And then I remember maybe they were, they just didn't adhere to it.

I agree, and I try. We are independent in so many ways, and take care of our men so well, we have to let them feel useful somehow, right? Lol! :lol:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> My husband has a habit of opening the door for others but standing in front of it in such a way that they can't get past him to leave. Dear NC, is it okay for me to kick him when he does that?


I think a quick kick in the tush is necessary. Then a wink and a pinch maybe? Lol! Just to let him know you still love and appreciate him. Sometimes men can be so dense.

Btw, did you know that biologically speaking, women are better at multitasking then men? We are able to go from one side of the brain to the other more quickly. They are stuck on one side, thus the saying "one track mind."


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I think a quick kick in the tush is necessary. Then a wink and a pinch maybe? Lol! Just to let him know you still love and appreciate him. Sometimes men can be so dense.
> 
> Btw, did you know that biologically speaking, women are better at multitasking then men? We are able to go from one side of the brain to the other more quickly. They are stuck on one side, thus the saying "one track mind."


Not only that, some of us manage to raise kids and a husband at the same time.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I think that gender based obligation went out the window for the most part, except perhaps for a couple. It is one small way for a man to demonstrate a bit of respect.
> Not a major point, remember though, I am old.
> I hold the door for people and people hold the door for me wherever I go. Generally, the "recipient" of the courtesy steps up the walking pace a bit in return.


I agree. Although, dh is probably the most well mannered person I know and is polite to everyone, despite his social insecurities. Also, it seems to me that not only the gender based obligation left, but most obligation for courtesy did.

I'm glad you have that experience. Usually I find I am the one who holds the door (except when dh is there), and even if people don't say thank you, they step up the pace.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I think a quick kick in the tush is necessary. Then a wink and a pinch maybe? Lol! Just to let him know you still love and appreciate him. Sometimes men can be so dense.
> 
> Btw, did you know that biologically speaking, women are better at multitasking then men? We are able to go from one side of the brain to the other more quickly. They are stuck on one side, thus the saying "one track mind."


I know a few men who can't do one thing at a time.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.
> 
> Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


That is very true. Women definitely have a different way of reacting to each other than men do. I took some very interesting gender differences classes in college. We really are from different planets! Lol!

Women do tend to be more petty, spiteful, and jealous. This seems to be exacerbated when they are put into a smaller area together. Not all women, of course, and not in all circumstances. It is, however, one of the reasons I did not join a sorority in college.

This is very interesting, and I would like to discuss it further, but wish to respond to other posts to before I have to rest my eyes. Hopefully we can revisit it soon!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've got to admit I'm slower than I used to be. I'm old enough that I remember men opening car doors and building doors routinely. My guess is that men from that era would feel robbed of their manhood if a woman raced them to the door and teased about it. IMHO
> 
> If any person looks as they might appreciate a bit of help, I always jump in.....a stroller or cart, arms full, etc. And I always (automatically ) say 'Thank you ' when anyone assists me in any way.
> 
> ...


Natureschampion
I hold the door if I am first and thank anyone who holds it for me. It has always been a pleasant experience. If there are double doors and a gentleman holds the first one for me, I rush to the 2nd one and declare: "this is my THANK YOU". I always get a smile. Can't get any better.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> That is very true. Women definitely have a different way of reacting to each other than men do. I took some very interesting gender differences classes in college. We really are from different planets! Lol!
> 
> Women do tend to be more petty, spiteful, and jealous. This seems to be exacerbated when they are put into a smaller area together. Not all women, of course, and not in all circumstances. It is, however, one of the reasons I did not join a sorority in college.
> 
> This is very interesting, and I would like to discuss it further, but wish to respond to other posts to before I have to rest my eyes. Hopefully we can revisit it soon!


Natureschampion
I experienced the same behavior with Men in different settings. We are much more alike than different. The difference is we all have been type casted.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I know a few men who can't do one thing at a time.


Knitanon
I know plenty of Men AND Women who are very limited AND know many who can do everything.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I am sure you are correct. Men never have an issue with getting along at work or any other setting (say sports) they never get nasty, they just beat the living daylights out of each other.


And even then, most men don't start beating each other until there is no other option (I said MOST). A theory of mine has to do with evolutionary psychology; for how long in western civilization were women kept in the home and apart from society except specific social events where they were accompanied by their husbands, fathers, brothers, etc? Until the industrial revolution, women didn't work (for the most part. Some were teachers or nurses, but those were the only "acceptable" positions and even that was few and far between.). I know the IR happened well over 100 years ago, but that's nothing compared to how long we have been around and evolved. We are still somewhat new to being independent and out in society, that i think maybe we don't know how to act? There is definitely a biological and hormonal component. This is just one theory that fits in with other explanations. Everyone is different, btw. I think it's also a different type of social competition for men than women.

I have always gotten along better with men, most of my friends have always been men. I couldn't stand how women treated me and each other. I wanted nothing to do with it. Men don't act that way with each other, and with a few exceptions, certainly don't act that way with women.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm hoping along with you, but I don't envy you the work. We moved here in 1970, and whenever I think of moving, I have a good stiff drink and let the thought die down.


We have been in this house since 1978 and have accumulated so much. Doesn't help that we volunteer at this huge rummage twice a year and see things we can't resist. Daughter figures it will be several years after we need to give up the house before she gets it cleared out and sellable. She said she may just move in and work on it while she lives here. Good luck, as she is also a pack rat.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I've got to admit I'm slower than I used to be. I'm old enough that I remember men opening car doors and building doors routinely. My guess is that men from that era would feel robbed of their manhood if a woman raced them to the door and teased about it. IMHO
> 
> If any person looks as they might appreciate a bit of help, I always jump in.....a stroller or cart, arms full, etc. And I always (automatically ) say 'Thank you ' when anyone assists me in any way.
> 
> ...


Because I'm younger, I don't "remember" a time when courtesy was part of the norm. However, I knew it existed bc of who I was raised by and around.

I agree, and after dh said that he hated it I felt bad and am going to try to not do it. He takes care of me so well, and I him, and we are such a great partnership (most of the time) that I forget this. He always opened my car door when we started dating and for a while after that. I kept telling him he didn't have to, and he stopped. Boy do I regret that! I should have learned not to try to beat him to the door. Thanks for the reminder!

I always say "please" and "thank you". Sometimes I think I say it too much. I, too, am thrilled when children are polite and acknowledging. I have to remind my 27 year old cousin (who has some developmental issues) to say it. It's not his fault, I only have to remind him like once and he's good the rest of the weekend/week. His parents just have always spoiled him and didn't teach him the polite response when someone does something for you. He WANTS to be courteous, so he always appreciates it when I remind him.

No prob. When this happened and we discussed it, I told him, "I wonder what the other gals think about this?"


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Visuals are a little better, I'm trying to take it easy. Dh made dinner tonight, so that was a big help, especially since I chopped onions this afternoon for granny's scrambles. Those always make my eyes worse. Oy vey! Oh well. Se la vie.
> I was able to catch up a little on what's been going on, and maintain a thread I started on cast ons. Very useful information, and I was happy to see that others benefited as well.
> Fortunately i was able to see well enough to get the spots on the laundry (I hope) and do some knitting. For some reason, even though it is difficult to read, even when I make the print bigger, I can still knit at least in dk. I think it's bc of the small lines of the symbols and them being so close together. I also am working on a lace projects, so the wholes makes the rows and sts easier to distinguish. I guess I compensate. Let's just say, I've learned that when my vision is doing poorly in general, I need to place lifelines closer together. Live it, learn it! But I haven't made a mistake in a few repeats. <knock on wood>.
> 
> Anyways, thanks for asking. Sorry if I over shared.


See if it helps to use a pair of swim goggles when you peel and chop onions.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> May I insert myself into the conversation? Dear PP, in my opinion it is required that partners helpfully point out these idiosyncrasies to one another, so I think a quick kick and run approach is best.
> 
> My DH favors a kind verbal reminder.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

I think they all do, but so often they don't listen. When that's the case, a friendly "physical" reminder may be necessary. Just so they get the point. Lol :wink:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Cindy S said:


> Oh darn, and here I thought you didn't call people names!!!


I also thought she didn't come onto NB. Apparently she is so obsessed that she needs to follow our every move and insert herself, not regarding the many reminders that this is a "nice" thread and to check the pettiness at the door.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> My experience with a group of women is different. I find a group of women to be collaborative and supportive of one another. I enjoy it a great deal.


That's wonderful that you have had that experience. For the most part, I have not. I think it takes the right group of women. For instance, I think if most of us were put in a room together, or on a project, we could act exactly as you stated. I think if there is a common goal, then women are also more likely to act as you described. However, we also have such divergent opinions on how to reach a goal, that this is not always the case.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh Bon. I haven't been able to stay away either. I guess the only way it works is if we never read it. You were much nicer with your post than I was.
> 
> I got the front and back nearly done on a new pullover. I plan on teaching a very simple pattern when my life settles down, on a new workshop. It is the same basic pattern as the dishcloth cotton short sleeve summer sweater I made a few years ago. People are still asking for a class, so I am making a long sleeved pullover and writing down how I do it. It is a very simple (not top down) sweater and is done by measurements rather than stitch count. So we build it by measurements rather than stitch count.


Shirley, I love the color/texture/design elements in your sweater. Thank you for showing it to us.

Good luck with the health results.

Get at least a good weekend's rest before you tackle any more chores.

And I understand your situation with WOW. Some comments are so inane it would take more will power than I have not to refute them. Seems like talking to a wall, though. Maybe if my name were Joshua I would have more success.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Now we see why she needs to deny herself participation on this thread. No self control.
> Personally, I see this post as another indicator of anti-Semitism.
> It is a typical neo-Nazi tactic to do things like smear pigs blood and entrails on the possessions of people within those groups who reject pigs and their products.


Obviously she CANT deny herself participation. Do you think it's bc when we are here, we are not paying attentions o her on WOW? Like a child who follows their parent into another room when the parent has had enough of their absurdities? I know I was a kid like that. And then I turned 7 and realized it was not the way to get attention or what I wanted, and it most certainly wasn't nice or the way to act.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> An apology is owed. This is Neutral Bridges.


Don't hold your breath.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I think the chips need to fall as they may.


I believe in karma, and that a "man's" character is "his" destiny. I know that people who act a certain way do so bc they are miserable and stuck in a hell of their own device. They can't help but to project that onto other people. They get even more irritated and angry when people refuse to join them. It's sad, really. I don't expect any apologies from these people, and wouldn't want one unless it is sincere. In my experience, it never is.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Anxious to see outcome.


You already have. It is a continuous outcome. She is miserable and she shows it in every hateful spiteful, twisted post.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Obviously she CANT deny herself participation. Do you think it's bc when we are here, we are not paying attentions o her on WOW? Like a child who follows their parent into another room when the parent has had enough of their absurdities? I know I was a kid like that. And then I turned 7 and realized it was not the way to get attention or what I wanted, and it most certainly wasn't nice or the way to act.


NC, did you ever see that video of the little kid who is throwing a tantrum while being filmed? The filmer goes into a different room, kid follows, and erupts again. It's funny.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hi SQM, I didn't name call. I responded to her that she behaved like an animal, because she acted like one to a dear and wonderful friend of mine on another thread. I, like many, recognize the hypocrisy of this thread and will defend any of my friends who are unaware.
> 
> As to Switzerland - I meant in the context of politics and war - not banking.


It's not hypocrisy. Most of us can check our difference of beliefs at the door to engage in pleasant and enlightened conversations. It's not hypocrisy, it's being polite and mature.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> What happens on Wow should stay in Wow.
> 
> Why do people use animals to insult each other? They for the most part treat each other better than humans do. And don't ruin the planet.
> 
> There is no hypocrisy here from what I can see. It is the rare exception that someone forgets the purpose of this oasis and then others are available to remind the person. No name calling, no hypocrisy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> oh you two, a marriage made in Heaven.


The Lockhorns? The Bickersons?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Oh sure, and now you turn up! I just took your name in vain over on WOW.


Lol!! I'll have to check it out. I haven't been on WOW in a few days. Haha I actually feel honored... . But then, I don't know what you said yet...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Not only that, some of us manage to raise kids and a husband at the same time.


Lol!! So true!! I tell dh "why do I need kids? I have you!!" Lol!! I had to stop him from getting too many little Debbie snack cakes at the market the other night. It was too hilarious! Oh, and my mom is CONSTANTLY trying to teach dad how to be polite and have manners. He's the sweetest and very caring man, but soooo oblivious.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I know a few men who can't do one thing at a time.


No kidding!! I swear that nothing would get done without us. It's true what they say that "behind every great man..." John Adams knew this, so does my father. It was the sweetest thing: he gave a toast at my cousins wedding (he lost his father 2 years prior) and said that he was so fortunate bc he was married to a woman who had all the great ideas, and he could execute them. My mother is better in small groups and one on one, my dad is better speaking in front of a large group of people. He knows how it is!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> I hold the door if I am first and thank anyone who holds it for me. It has always been a pleasant experience. If there are double doors and a gentleman holds the first one for me, I rush to the 2nd one and declare: "this is my THANK YOU". I always get a smile. Can't get any better.


That's great! Thanks for sharing!

Sometimes I don't know if some men are more gracious with me bc I can somewhat be considered "pretty." I see how they view other women, and notice that people in general seem to be more accommodating to people with certain "attributes." I know it's fiction, but it is very aptly described in the way Amy Farrah Fowler views and is so forgiving of Penny on Big Bang Theory. I think that show is very good at portraying social interactions and human behavior.

What do you think? This is directed at everyone.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> I experienced the same behavior with Men in different settings. We are much more alike than different. The difference is we all have been type casted.


I think you are right in some respects. Of course there is no "one size fits all" in psychology and social behavior. There are many determining factors. It has been my experience, and that of researchers, that women are MORE likely to act this way than men. Another difference is, and this goes with being typecasted, is that for a very long time we were RAISED differently. I know many families, including my own, where the male offspring were treated differently and had different expectations put on them. For instance, my brother was allowed to go out and stay out later than us at the same age or even younger. I know other families who were/are the same way. Even the males were able to go far away to college and the females had to go to one closer to home. My gm was denied a scholarship to USC (at a time when women hardly went to college, let alone offered a full ride without even applying) bc "women just didn't go to college" according to her father. This was actually fortunate, bc otherwise she would not have met my gp when she ran off to NY to love with some family. Everything happens for a reason, right? Sorry, I know that was off topic.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Thanks, ladies, for filling me in on WoW. It sounds like a dreadful place to go. If it is that bad I should give it a miss.


In some ways it is like watching an accident in slow motion, that sort of horrible fascination when you don't want to look and can't look away.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Not only that, some of us manage to raise kids and a husband at the same time.


I sometimes felt I was the biological mother of three and the psychological mother of four.......


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's kind of true I think. I have a theory and some may think it sexist and I apologise for that. However, in my experience working as a nurse in a predominately female profession, I found, without exception, that when I was among a group of women (OF WHICH I AM ONE), there was always trouble. Not to blow my own horn, I do have a very positive and happy approach to work. I love to have a laugh and generally got along with my co-workers. I related well with them usually. I sometimes  got into scrapes but I witnessed so many instances where in the main, jealousy it seemed, caused stress and division among the group.
> 
> Whether it's a competitive gene thing, jealousy gene thing or just downright bitchy thing, we women IMO just can't help ourselves.


It may be a genetic glitch that goes back to prehistory, needing to be the one chosen to be protected by the physically larger male of the species. Tie that to needing to be the alpha female who gets the choicest bit of mastodon for dinner.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> We have been in this house since 1978 and have accumulated so much. Doesn't help that we volunteer at this huge rummage twice a year and see things we can't resist. Daughter figures it will be several years after we need to give up the house before she gets it cleared out and sellable. She said she may just move in and work on it while she lives here. Good luck, as she is also a pack rat.


Lol! My childhood home is the same way. My mom teases us (I don't know how much of a joke it really is) that there is a million dollars stashed in different parts of the house, and when they are gone or it's time to move, we will only find it if we go through everything. We don't care about money, so we laugh.

I have definitely taken after my parents in that respect as well. You don't want to see our pool table, and there is a tiny walkway in the garage. There is 68 years worth of stuff accumulated by granny and some of her children's and grand children's stuff (she refuses to get rid of anything, including rusty and broken knives), and then my stuff that I haven't unpacked even from when I moved from my apartment after college back to my parents before I moved here! Lol!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I always thought manners should be universal, and one should always be polite. Others disregard for this just makes it more important for me to display it.
> 
> That irks me to no end. Or when you are approaching a door and someone is coming through the other side and is there first, and then WAITs until you get there so you can open it. I don't know why, but it does irritate me more when a man does it. I think, "they should have been raised better." And then I remember maybe they were, they just didn't adhere to it.
> 
> I agree, and I try. We are independent in so many ways, and take care of our men so well, we have to let them feel useful somehow, right? Lol! :lol:


When somebody thanks me for being polite or thoughtful, I tell them "you are welcome - just pass it forward to somebody else" with a pleasant smile. Hope to start a ripple effect moving in a positive direction.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> See if it helps to use a pair of swim goggles when you peel and chop onions.


Great idea!!! Although, isn't the reaction also tied to the sinuses? Maybe snorkeling goggles? I do have a pair of lab goggles my dad gave me when I was taking anatomy w/lab, so maybe those will be more comfortable than my TYR swim goggles.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's wonderful that you have had that experience. For the most part, I have not. I think it takes the right group of women. For instance, I think if most of us were put in a room together, or on a project, we could act exactly as you stated. I think if there is a common goal, then women are also more likely to act as you described. However, we also have such divergent opinions on how to reach a goal, that this is not always the case.


I have found that in my three knitting groups we are invariably pleasant and kind to one another. The same situation in my book discussion group. We are too busy having an enjoyable time to look for reasons to be nasty.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> NC, did you ever see that video of the little kid who is throwing a tantrum while being filmed? The filmer goes into a different room, kid follows, and erupts again. It's funny.


No I haven't, but I can imagine. Remind you of anyone?

I don't know that I have to see it, bc my cousin is STILL the same way. He just doesn't know when to stop, when other people have had enough. For some reason, he thinks it is his right to treat people a certain way and to act like a child.

To be completely honest, I can sometimes get that way with dh and my mom. As you all know, I am opinionated and stubborn. I can also forget that I am trying to be a better person, especially to those who love me most. I would never do it to anyone other than them, so I guess I kinda use it as an excuse, knowing how much they love me. I can get VERY worked up, believe it or not. :wink:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> The Lockhorns? The Bickersons?


Lol!!

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> In some ways it is like watching an accident in slow motion, that sort of horrible fascination when you don't want to look and can't look away.


That's a great description

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> When somebody thanks me for being polite or thoughtful, I tell them "you are welcome - just pass it forward to somebody else" with a pleasant smile. Hope to start a ripple effect moving in a positive direction.


Very good! I say "your welcome" and have only on occasion added the "pay it forward," depending on what they are thanking me fore. I am now inspired to do it with everything.

Thanks!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's great! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Sometimes I don't know if some men are more gracious with me bc I can somewhat be considered "pretty." I see how they view other women, and notice that people in general seem to be more accommodating to people with certain "attributes." I know it's fiction, but it is very aptly described in the way Amy Farrah Fowler views and is so forgiving of Penny on Big Bang Theory. I think that show is very good at portraying social interactions and human behavior.
> 
> What do you think? This is directed at everyone.


In that vein, seeing her portrayal of Amy, I think Mayim Bialik ranks with Gilda Radner and Lily Tomlin in earning the Imogene Coca Award.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I have found that in my three knitting groups we are invariably pleasant and kind to one another. The same situation in my book discussion group. We are too busy having an enjoyable time to look for reasons to be nasty.


That's wonderful! Unfortunately, I haven't been so lucky to have a social group like that. In USY (Jewish youth group for those who don't know) when we had our "girls" stuff, we got along just like you describe. There were some girls who tried to instigate things, but they didn't last long. We were also too wrapped up in having a good time and wanting USY to be a pleasant place where everyone felt welcome.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> In that vein, seeing her portrayal of Amy, I think Mayim Bialik ranks with Gilda Radner and Lily Tomlin in earning the Imogene Coca Award.


Totally!! You nailed it!

But what do you think about women and men who are deemed a little more "desirable" or "attractive" by society being treated more pleasantly by both men and women?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Obviously she CANT deny herself participation. Do you think it's bc when we are here, we are not paying attentions o her on WOW? Like a child who follows their parent into another room when the parent has had enough of their absurdities? I know I was a kid like that. And then I turned 7 and realized it was not the way to get attention or what I wanted, and it most certainly wasn't nice or the way to act.


There are a few people on WOW who are good friends and always nice to each other. Everyone else is a target.They relish making the "others" feel bad. I'll never go back there. Toxic.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> There are a few people on WOW who are good friends and always nice to each other. Everyone else is a target.They relish making the "others" feel bad. I'll never go back there. Toxic.


It does seem to be rather "cliquish" doesn't it? I had to deal with that all throughout grade school. I'd rather avoid it. That's why NB is my favorite place to hang out.

I'll probably go back if I need to "shake things up a bit" bc maybe my life's a little too drama free? Lol!! But then I haven't dealt with it as long as you have.

I like that there is a place that people of different beliefs and opinions can get together and share experiences and whatnot without feeling judged. Even if we disagree with each other on other threads, we can come here with the common goal of feeling accepted and safe. We are all humans (at least here on NB, lol) and statistically speaking there has to be some things that can be discussed that don't instigate hard feelings. From what I can tell so far, we have accomplished all of this.

I'm so glad this thread was created. Thanks, Sloth! And thanks everyone else for making ME feel accepted, safe, and not judged!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Both of those posts are pretty funny as it is the same group of people who come here.


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## KnittyGritty800 (Apr 1, 2014)

I have not seen the musical, but I did read (actually listed to the unabridged audio CD) the book and it was GREAT!! Thanks for sharing some of the lyrics from the theater production.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Great idea!!! Although, isn't the reaction also tied to the sinuses? Maybe snorkeling goggles? I do have a pair of lab goggles my dad gave me when I was taking anatomy w/lab, so maybe those will be more comfortable than my TYR swim goggles.


Try it--it really does work.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> I have not seen the musical, but I did read (actually listed to the unabridged audio CD) the book and it was GREAT!! Thanks for sharing some of the lyrics from the theater production.


Musicals are great fun, funny how they went out of favor for so long. I guess that would be due to the expense.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Both of those posts are pretty funny as it is the same group of people who come here.


Yes. I am rather disillusioned actually. But no problem - I'm not going back there.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I am sure you are correct.


And I'm not so sure. I've dealt mainly with women myself, and there was very little that could be called bitchy, in group behavior.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> May I insert myself into the conversation? Dear PP, in my opinion it is required that partners helpfully point out these idiosyncrasies to one another, so I think a quick kick and run approach is best.
> 
> My DH favors a kind verbal reminder.


Thank you for your sage advice.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I will, a pig.
> 
> Bluejay and Bonnie - I suggest you learn what those on this "neutral bridge" have to say about others (you) on different threads.
> 
> It ain't Switzerland (neutral).


Who let the dogs out?

I said nothing anywhere about Bluejay, and Bonnie and I seem to have understood each other. But you can't rest until you've sown destruction, can you? I've already unwatched WOW, and now I'll have to do it here.

The less I hear about you, the happier I will be. You can expect to hear me singing hymns with the angels by next Monday.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Well, Everybody, it's time for me to go. It's become like WOW here for some of us, through no fault of our own. I've already quit WOW, and now because someone felt it necessary to follow me here, I'm quitting.

It was fun while it lasted.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And I'm not so sure. I've dealt mainly with women myself, and there was very little that could be called bitchy, in group behavior.


That was my "I am on Neutral Bridges response". LOL


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October! 

Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

KnittyGritty800 said:


> I have not seen the musical, but I did read (actually listed to the unabridged audio CD) the book and it was GREAT!! Thanks for sharing some of the lyrics from the theater production.


Musicals are my favorite genre in cinema and theater. They comprise a majority of my cd and DVD collection. I even took an "history of musical theater" class in college. It was quite exhilarating.

Have you seen Les Miserables? The stage production is one of my favorites of all time. The movie was great also, but not as good IMO. I did not think Russel Crowe was the best choice. Gerard butler perhaps? He did so well in Phantom. Anne Hathaway stole the show. I didn't care for the song they added, though. It sounded entirely out of place.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Musicals are great fun, funny how they went out of favor for so long. I guess that would be due to the expense.


I think it was partly the expense, partly they didn't have as many productions that lived up to the standards of yesteryear. They have somehow worked out the kinks and there have been some amazing productions. I don't care for most of the ones that were popular movies that they are now trying to adapt to musicals, though.

What is/are your favorite (s)?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY,!! YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!

Mazel tov! L'chayim! That's such great news!!

Big hugs and kisses to you and pat! I'm so glad to hear that there is nothing wrong with your heart and that you will be able to move closer to your family. That's the best news ever!

For your BP, try watching a funny show. There are always is dictated reruns that play all the time. Some of my favorites are MASH, Big Bang theory, modern family, Seinfeld, arrested development, I love Lucy, and bewitched. I don't know where you can find them where you are, but I'm sure they are there! Sorry, just some friendly unsolicited advice. I always put MASH on for granny when she needs to relax bc I have those on DVD and she really likes them.

Good luck! Thanks for letting us know!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


That is excellent news, Designer. You may want to PM PoorPurl.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


Yay, Shirley! The relief feels wonderful, and the anxiety melts away . . .


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


I am really pleased with your good news. Don't let certain people upset you, it will only raise the BP. Enjoy your excellent craftwork and sit, relax and enjoy mother nature. The big move is getting closer.   :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> There are a few people on WOW who are good friends and always nice to each other. Everyone else is a target.They relish making the "others" feel bad. I'll never go back there. Toxic.


I'm glad that you are here. Seeing you on Bridges is fine with me.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> Try it--it really does work.


Thanks! Will do! I'll be making loads of spaghetti sauce (some to freeze) this weekend (hopefully) so I will be chopping lots of onions.

I'm sorry, I don't know if we have "met." I'm new(ish) here? I did see knitanons post that referred to me on WOW, and when I went to "view message", I saw that you had posted a lot as well.

Welcome back!!

I'm sorry to hear about your brother. I only saw a little of what was said, but my heart fully goes out to you. I wish there was more I could say or do.

I hope that you have a chance to stick around NB a little more. I love it here and would like the chance to get to know you.

Well, my eyes don't want to cooperate anymore so it's time for me to give them a rest.

It was nice to "meet" you! And thanks again for the advice.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> It does seem to be rather "cliquish" doesn't it? I had to deal with that all throughout grade school. I'd rather avoid it. That's why NB is my favorite place to hang out.
> 
> I'll probably go back if I need to "shake things up a bit" bc maybe my life's a little too drama free? Lol!! But then I haven't dealt with it as long as you have.
> 
> ...


Please don't give me such credit. It is the posters who have good will that should be applauded.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Musicals are great fun, funny how they went out of favor for so long. I guess that would be due to the expense.


Plus a generation of creative theatre thinkers have died with AIDS. Knew back in the '80s this would affect NY theatre.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Please don't give me such credit. It is the posters who have good will that should be applauded.


I meant thank for starting it. I agree that it's everyone. I said thanks for how they made me feel personally, I guess I should have given a general "kudos" to everyone who has kept it going so successfully.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, Everybody, it's time for me to go. It's become like WOW here for some of us, through no fault of our own. I've already quit WOW, and now because someone felt it necessary to follow me here, I'm quitting.
> 
> It was fun while it lasted.


And not a soul says a thing. Isn't that nice?
Poor Purl has bent over backward to be kind, to be patient in her interactions with newbies and this is the support she gets? Silence. Very nice. 
Keep patting yourselves on the back about how gentle sweet you are and how you cannot take the harshness. 
Empty vessels?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Glad about Shirley's good news. You went thru a lot with this wait. Happy moving.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, Everybody, it's time for me to go. It's become like WOW here for some of us, through no fault of our own. I've already quit WOW, and now because someone felt it necessary to follow me here, I'm quitting.
> 
> It was fun while it lasted.


Purl, I think we should all just stop talking about anything negative and ignore anyone who wants to come and disrupt this thread. I don't think that leaving because of nastiness is the answer. We are friends here. Anyone who comes in friendship is welcome here. I think we should let it go and ignore any future visits from any one who comes in to attack.

Please don't go, I am not going back to WOW. If Bonnie can stay away from that thread I can too. I am not even going to read the posts. I don't like myself much when I allow myself to join in the arguments. It is far to easy to let our hurt and anger take over. We don't do that here. Most people who come on here understand and appreciate what we do. Those who don't will try to spoil it. We can't let that happen.

See you all later- I am soo relieved and happy and I am heading to Vancouver Islanld!! sometime in October!!!. So lets have a glass of wine and celebrate!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> And not a soul says a thing. Isn't that nice?
> Poor Purl has bent over backward to be kind, to be patient in her interactions with newbies and this is the support she gets? Silence. Very nice.
> Keep patting yourselves on the back about how gentle sweet you are and how you cannot take the harshness.
> Empty vessels?


Maybe we are PMing , My Pretty.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> And not a soul says a thing. Isn't that nice?
> Poor Purl has bent over backward to be kind, to be patient in her interactions with newbies and this is the support she gets? Silence. Very nice.
> Keep patting yourselves on the back about how gentle sweet you are and how you cannot take the harshness.
> Empty vessels?


I just read her post. I have begged her to stay. It would be such a loss. I posted my thoughts below. Lets have a glass of wine


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


Wonderful news!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY,!! YAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYY!
> 
> Mazel tov! L'chayim! That's such great news!!
> 
> ...


Yes - laughter is good for you!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I'm glad that you are here. Seeing you on Bridges is fine with me.


Thanks, SQM - that's nice of you to say!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Maybe we are PMing , My Pretty.


That is hardly a public show of support.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> And not a soul says a thing. Isn't that nice?
> Poor Purl has bent over backward to be kind, to be patient in her interactions with newbies and this is the support she gets? Silence. Very nice.
> Keep patting yourselves on the back about how gentle sweet you are and how you cannot take the harshness.
> Empty vessels?


Shirley said not to leave. I PMed her right away, before I even had a chance to see what others wrote. She said she was "up watching", so i decided a PM would get to her more quickly. I BEGGED her not to go. We will see if she listens. I didn't think it necessary to give a public display and might embarrass her. She knows how I feel and that is all that is important.

I don't need anyone else's "approval". I am only sharing this so you know that even though you don't see it, it doesn't mean the support isn't there or that we are "silent."


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Wonderful news!


Thanks so much Bonnie. Let's make an agreement - I don't want to go to WOW any more and I am not going - I know you don't want to go there either. Lets agree! (I need all the help I can GET to keep away.

We are starting to pack to go to BC so I am so happy. I appreciate your support and all the rest of my friends here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> That is hardly a public show of support.


Yes it is not a public forum but maybe a better place to talk to someone who has hurt feelings. Speaking for myself, I would prefer to talk very personal feelings in private on KP - some, who say, for my own safety and privacy matters.

Curious: Does anyone here think about the privacy issues when you PM? Is it really "private" or can Ostrich see what we are writing?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> That is hardly a public show of support.


It doesn't have to be public to be support.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks so much Bonnie. Let's make an agreement - I don't want to go to WOW any more and I am not going - I know you don't want to go there either. Lets agree! (I need all the help I can GET to keep away.
> 
> We are starting to pack to go to BC so I am so happy. I appreciate your support and all the rest of my friends here.


Okay. If you feel yourself drawn to WOW - or even worse, want to post - let me know and I'll shut down your computer!! Not really, but I'll encourage you not to go there. You do the same for me.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

That worked just fine, TYVM. 
Of course the support has to be public, the people who are out of control and going after Poor Purl need to know what people think of it.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> That worked just fine, TYVM.
> Of course the support has to be public, the people who are out of control and going after Poor Purl need to know what people think of it.


We have all said plenty of what we think of them. I'm certain that KPG stopped watching as soon as PP said she was leaving. She got what she wanted, why did she need to stick around? Everyone who matters knows how each one of us feels about PP, and so does she.

PP has been told what people think of it. Since she is the only one who matters in this case, she is the only one who does need to know. Our words are lost on KPG we were also not going to let her "win" further and feed her ego by continuing the matter outside of our PMs. She's trying to through a wrench in the machine. Well, you know what patches o'houlihan says, "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a dodgeball!" Well, I don't adhere to bullies who throw dodge balls and run. Some did let her know what they thought of her remarks. I replied to them as they said what I would have and also she is not worth my time.

PP is the only person who matters. She knows who came to her aid.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay. If you feel yourself drawn to WOW - or even worse, want to post - let me know and I'll shut down your computer!! Not really, but I'll encourage you not to go there. You do the same for me.


That is a deal. Anyone else want to join us??? I just removed all my watches on anything but NB.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Yes it is not a public forum but maybe a better place to talk to someone who has hurt feelings. Speaking for myself, I would prefer to talk very personal feelings in private on KP - some, who say, for my own safety and privacy matters.
> 
> Curious: Does anyone here think about the privacy issues when you PM? Is it really "private" or can Ostrich see what we are writing?


I agree and didn't want to put PP in the position of feeling like she had to respond.

You know that even our emails aren't private, right? There are people who go through them looking for "red flags". Do you think it doesn't happen here? I don't know if admin does it, Big Brother is always watching.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> That is a deal. Anyone else want to join us??? I just removed all my watches on anything but NB.


I'm way ahead of you! Though I did. Of I watch everything, as I have some very instructive threads I am a part of. But I'm with you on not going to WOW! At least for a while. :wink: 

I haven't dealt with it as much as you and can somewhat easily ignore it, but any time either of you feels you need a "slap in the face" so to speak, I will gladly lend a hand! Lol!!!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Okay. If you feel yourself drawn to WOW - or even worse, want to post - let me know and I'll shut down your computer!! Not really, but I'll encourage you not to go there. You do the same for me.


And if you should desire, I too will lend my support!

"TOXIC FUMES: DO NOT ENTER!!"


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> And not a soul says a thing. Isn't that nice?
> Poor Purl has bent over backward to be kind, to be patient in her interactions with newbies and this is the support she gets? Silence. Very nice.
> Keep patting yourselves on the back about how gentle sweet you are and how you cannot take the harshness.
> Empty vessels?


Thank you for calling my attention to this post.
I had already "unwatched" WOW and hadn't paid that much attention here, either--except for Shirley's news.
I hope PP hasn't quit for good. In my opinion, PP has added knowledge and levity to every thread she has posted on and has been diligent in getting to the bottom of disagreements and ferreting out information to prove or disprove a point. I do understand how she feels, though. Sometimes we just get worn out and worn down despite our best efforts.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> That worked just fine, TYVM.
> Of course the support has to be public, the people who are out of control and going after Poor Purl need to know what people think of it.


I think I may have added to PP's decision.

I would like to explain my politics. I am socially progressive but a zealous Zionist. I am also a Secular Humanist with a bit of American Spiritualism thrown in. So I am progressive but also conservative. I appreciate intellectual thought and the support of Israel. So that is why I like many of the women on all the threads. I am both a lefty and a Righty for Israel.

Also I like diversity. This has been a great way to speak to women in the Midwest and South and on the West Coast that I would never be able to experience in any other way. I love the glimpses into the ladies' lifestyles.

"Bill Bailey, won't you please come home."


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm way ahead of you! Though I did. Of I watch everything, as I have some very instructive threads I am a part of. But I'm with you on not going to WOW! At least for a while. :wink:
> 
> I haven't dealt with it as much as you and can somewhat easily ignore it, but any time either of you feels you need a "slap in the face" so to speak, I will gladly lend a hand! Lol!!!


I am okay with stopping WOW. I am tired of the abortion debate. We can maybe start refeeding Current Events which is what we really like here.

Actually people I like are still doing WOW and the conversation is good so I did post.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> We have all said plenty of what we think of them. I'm certain that KPG stopped watching as soon as PP said she was leaving. She got what she wanted, why did she need to stick around? Everyone who matters knows how each one of us feels about PP, and so does she.
> 
> PP has been told what people think of it. Since she is the only one who matters in this case, she is the only one who does need to know. Our words are lost on KPG we were also not going to let her "win" further and feed her ego by continuing the matter outside of our PMs. She's trying to through a wrench in the machine. Well, you know what patches o'houlihan says, "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a dodgeball!" Well, I don't adhere to bullies who throw dodge balls and run. Some did let her know what they thought of her remarks. I replied to them as they said what I would have and also she is not worth my time.
> 
> PP is the only person who matters. She knows who came to her aid.


I would personally ask that we don't discuss it here. It is not a good idea -even if we all agree. I hope that Purl will reconsider. However, she is an adult and all we can do is let her know we support her. I have approached her privately and publicly. Her decision is up to her. I do believe that she knows that the people here support her -- I think that sometimes we feel raw when things are said to us or about us. 
==
Well we went shopping at Chapters (not sure whether Chapters is an American or a Canadian company, and bought some things for our grand daughter to do on her trip. They leave on Wednesday morning. We will miss them, but we will definitely follow soon. We bought her two novels, and a box full of ideas and papers called Origami on the GO. 40 paper folding projects for l0+ year olds who plan to travel. She is a good reader and a crafty girl so I think it will make the trip less boring for her.

We also stopped for lunch after my appointment and shared a taco salad so I don't need to cook tonight. Tomorrow I start getting stuff sorted one room at a time. I have lots of paper work to do and we have to decide what we want to take. It will be a relief when we decide what we want to keep. I am excited!!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I would personally ask that we don't discuss it here. It is not a good idea -even if we all agree. I hope that Purl will reconsider. However, she is an adult and all we can do is let her know we support her. I have approached her privately and publicly. Her decision is up to her. I do believe that she knows that the people here support her -- I think that sometimes we feel raw when things are said to us or about us.
> ==
> Well we went shopping at Chapters (not sure whether Chapters is an American or a Canadian company, and bought some things for our grand daughter to do on her trip. They leave on Wednesday morning. We will miss them, but we will definitely follow soon. We bought her two novels, and a box full of ideas and papers called Origami on the GO. 40 paper folding projects for l0+ year olds who plan to travel. She is a good reader and a crafty girl so I think it will make the trip less boring for her.
> 
> We also stopped for lunch after my appointment and shared a taco salad so I don't need to cook tonight. Tomorrow I start getting stuff sorted one room at a time. I have lots of paper work to do and we have to decide what we want to take. It will be a relief when we decide what we want to keep. I am excited!!


Sounds like you had a wonderful day! I'm so glad! I'm sure gd is very excited to have you join them soon. Are they driving back? I have never heard of that store.

I am excited for you! Good luck sorting, I don't envy you. But at least when it's done, it's done, right?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> I am okay with stopping WOW. I am tired of the abortion debate. We can maybe start refeeding Current Events which is what we really like here.


We definitely should.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I agree and didn't want to put PP in the position of feeling like she had to respond.
> 
> You know that even our emails aren't private, right? There are people who go through them looking for "red flags". Do you think it doesn't happen here? I don't know if admin does it, Big Brother is always watching.


I have come to the conclusion that sometimes it is better to email our private thoughts. I have just started doing that with one or two friends - I don't honestly know how private the pm's are. There is an unwritten law that we don't share publicly what has been written. I do find however that some times people who are nasty take advantage of that fact. I think emails are more private.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's great! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Sometimes I don't know if some men are more gracious with me bc I can somewhat be considered "pretty." I see how they view other women, and notice that people in general seem to be more accommodating to people with certain "attributes." I know it's fiction, but it is very aptly described in the way Amy Farrah Fowler views and is so forgiving of Penny on Big Bang Theory. I think that show is very good at portraying social interactions and human behavior.
> 
> What do you think? This is directed at everyone.


What do I think? I think I like the Big Bang Theory. I think you are right about attractive people being treated better in general. I think that pretty people acting clueless are treated more gently than others.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


Way to go, Shirley!

:-D :-D :-D :-D


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> That's wonderful that you have had that experience. For the most part, I have not. I think it takes the right group of women. For instance, I think if most of us were put in a room together, or on a project, we could act exactly as you stated. I think if there is a common goal, then women are also more likely to act as you described. However, we also have such divergent opinions on how to reach a goal, that this is not always the case.


It's the gossip factor with (not all) women that gets me. I remember starting a new job as Night Supervisor in a moderately sized private hospital. On the first night, after meeting the staff and when handover was completed, one staff member asked to see me privately. She advised me not to get immersed in all of the gossip and then proceeded to tell me about the staff members I should look out for and why!

My response was a polite 'thankyou' and a smile. :shock:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> That worked just fine, TYVM.
> Of course the support has to be public, the people who are out of control and going after Poor Purl need to know what people think of it.


Do you really think they care, Knitanon? I seriously doubt it.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's the gossip factor with (not all) women that gets me. I remember starting a new job as Night Supervisor in a moderately sized private hospital. On the first night, after meeting the staff and when handover was completed, one staff member asked to see me privately. She advised me not to get immersed in all of the gossip and then proceeded to tell me about the staff members I should look out for and why!
> 
> My response was a polite 'thankyou' and a smile. :shock:


That also irks me to no end. I have cousins that do the same, and also try to get information out of me about people I'm close to.

What else can you do or say? If it's someone I know, I tell them I don't want to hear it (hopefully in a polite enough way).


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes it is not a public forum but maybe a better place to talk to someone who has hurt feelings. Speaking for myself, I would prefer to talk very personal feelings in private on KP - some, who say, for my own safety and privacy matters.
> 
> Curious: Does anyone here think about the privacy issues when you PM? Is it really "private" or can Ostrich see what we are writing?


I consider nothing to be completely private.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I agree and didn't want to put PP in the position of feeling like she had to respond.
> 
> You know that even our emails aren't private, right? There are people who go through them looking for "red flags". Do you think it doesn't happen here? I don't know if admin does it, Big Brother is always watching.


Exactly. Greetings to the IRS, CIA, NSA, and FBI.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I would personally ask that we don't discuss it here. It is not a good idea -even if we all agree. I hope that Purl will reconsider. However, she is an adult and all we can do is let her know we support her. I have approached her privately and publicly. Her decision is up to her. I do believe that she knows that the people here support her -- I think that sometimes we feel raw when things are said to us or about us.
> ==
> Well we went shopping at Chapters (not sure whether Chapters is an American or a Canadian company, and bought some things for our grand daughter to do on her trip. They leave on Wednesday morning. We will miss them, but we will definitely follow soon. We bought her two novels, and a box full of ideas and papers called Origami on the GO. 40 paper folding projects for l0+ year olds who plan to travel. She is a good reader and a crafty girl so I think it will make the trip less boring for her.
> 
> We also stopped for lunch after my appointment and shared a taco salad so I don't need to cook tonight. Tomorrow I start getting stuff sorted one room at a time. I have lots of paper work to do and we have to decide what we want to take. It will be a relief when we decide what we want to keep. I am excited!!


I'm excited for you!

Also, I know Shirley won't mind if I add this to my response.

I'm not comfortable talking about people who aren't here, and I'm not going to do it. Some of the names mentioned are friends of mine and have done great kindnesses for me without my even asking. I don't want to cause trouble and I especially don't want to add to the criticism of people who are my friends. I think that sometimes this is how the trouble starts. Someone says something, another one defends a friend, and sparks fly. I think we should change the subject.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Let me say also that Joeysomma is a good friend of mine. I know that she started War on Women with the best of intentions, and I don't want to start a boycott. I've made my decision, not because of the subject of the thread, but because of the anger and cruel exchanges - and my angry reaction to them.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm excited for you!
> 
> Also, I know Shirley won't mind if I add this to my response.
> 
> I'm not comfortable talking about people who aren't here, and I'm not going to do it. Some of the names mentioned are friends of mine and have done great kindnesses for me without my even asking. I don't want to cause trouble and I especially don't want to add to the criticism of people who are my friends. I think that sometimes this is how the trouble starts. Someone says something, another one defends a friend, and sparks fly. I think we should change the subject.


Thank you Bonnie - you're a good friend who has always been able to stay true to your values and keep your integrity intact. Bless you!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find the cooperative/supportive reaction more often with women.



Natureschampion said:


> That is very true. Women definitely have a different way of reacting to each other than men do. I took some very interesting gender differences classes in college. We really are from different planets! Lol!
> 
> Women do tend to be more petty, spiteful, and jealous. This seems to be exacerbated when they are put into a smaller area together. Not all women, of course, and not in all circumstances. It is, however, one of the reasons I did not join a sorority in college.
> 
> This is very interesting, and I would like to discuss it further, but wish to respond to other posts to before I have to rest my eyes. Hopefully we can revisit it soon!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> I hold the door if I am first and thank anyone who holds it for me. It has always been a pleasant experience. If there are double doors and a gentleman holds the first one for me, I rush to the 2nd one and declare: "this is my THANK YOU". I always get a smile. Can't get any better.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> I experienced the same behavior with Men in different settings. We are much more alike than different. The difference is we all have been type casted.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad you understand. hugs



Natureschampion said:


> Because I'm younger, I don't "remember" a time when courtesy was part of the norm. However, I knew it existed bc of who I was raised by and around.
> 
> I agree, and after dh said that he hated it I felt bad and am going to try to not do it. He takes care of me so well, and I him, and we are such a great partnership (most of the time) that I forget this. He always opened my car door when we started dating and for a while after that. I kept telling him he didn't have to, and he stopped. Boy do I regret that! I should have learned not to try to beat him to the door. Thanks for the reminder!
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think some women learn that women must compete with men to 'win.' Common.



Natureschampion said:


> That's wonderful that you have had that experience. For the most part, I have not. I think it takes the right group of women. For instance, I think if most of us were put in a room together, or on a project, we could act exactly as you stated. I think if there is a common goal, then women are also more likely to act as you described. However, we also have such divergent opinions on how to reach a goal, that this is not always the case.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't expect it. It's just a comment designed to chase her away and remind the rest of us of what she really is.



Natureschampion said:


> Don't hold your breath.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I find the cooperative/supportive reaction more often with women.


Me too. Men are much more problematic.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love 'The Big Bang.' The development and interaction of characters is a hoot. Hope the writers are as happy with their salaries as the actors are. It takes a team and I look forward to many more shows.



Natureschampion said:


> That's great! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Sometimes I don't know if some men are more gracious with me bc I can somewhat be considered "pretty." I see how they view other women, and notice that people in general seem to be more accommodating to people with certain "attributes." I know it's fiction, but it is very aptly described in the way Amy Farrah Fowler views and is so forgiving of Penny on Big Bang Theory. I think that show is very good at portraying social interactions and human behavior.
> 
> What do you think? This is directed at everyone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Her ironic look of yearning for physical contact from Sheldon.....she deserves an award. Bravo.



MarilynKnits said:


> In that vein, seeing her portrayal of Amy, I think Mayim Bialik ranks with Gilda Radner and Lily Tomlin in earning the Imogene Coca Award.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Susan. Good to see you.



susanmos2000 said:


> Try it--it really does work.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

(My husband's advice is sage. Mine is honest. )



Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for your sage advice.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so happy. Praise be. hugs



Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I don't expect it. It's just a comment designed to chase her away and remind the rest of us of what she really is.


Understood. Maybe I could have said something better to support your sentiments. I guess I was being angry and pessimistic. Subject dropped.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I love 'The Big Bang.' The development and interaction of characters is a hoot. Hope the writers are as happy with their salaries as the actors are. It takes a team and I look forward to many more shows.


They are spot on! The writers are probably the biggest part, but yes it is a team effort.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Her ironic look of yearning for physical contact from Sheldon.....she deserves an award. Bravo.


She does! Were is Shirley with the clapping emoticon?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Am I the only new Arrested Development fan? Who is your favorite?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I think some women learn that women must compete with men to 'win.' Common.


I have observed women who will more likely stab each other in the back bc of that. They think they have to be the only woman who competes, that we can't do it together and at the same level.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Am I the only new Arrested Development fan? Who is your favorite?


I haven't gotten to watch it yet!!! Are there new characters?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've never seen it. Cable?



SQM said:


> Am I the only new Arrested Development fan? Who is your favorite?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am only on season 2 but it is mostly funny. Not as good as Curb Your Enthusiasm but nutty enough to keep my interest. I guess I should see if The Big Bang is on Netflix.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I find the cooperative/supportive reaction more often with women.


That's very interesting. I've experienced that, but most of my observations have been different. There are so many variables.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I've never seen it. Cable?


Netflix. nice diversion.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> I am only on season 2 but it is mostly funny. Not as good as Curb Your Enthusiasm but nutty enough to keep my interest. I guess I should see if The Big Bang is on Netflix.


Oh, I've seen everything that has been on tv. I can't say who my favorite character is... They are all so endearing in their own way. The mom cracks me up, will arnett (joeb) is crazy, buster is something else...

Big Bang should be on netflix up until the newest season.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Me too. Men are much more problematic.


How so?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I've never seen it. Cable?


I don't know if it's syndicated. I didn't watch it when it was new, but I think it was on fox. It's one of Ron Howard's shows, he's even the narrator. It's a great cast and also very well written. It hits close to home bc the setting is nearby to where I grew up.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> How so?


Always on the make regardless of age or physical condition. That is why having a relationship with women is so much easier.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Thank you Bonnie - you're a good friend who has always been able to stay true to your values and keep your integrity intact. Bless you!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Thank you Bonnie - you're a good friend who has always been able to stay true to your values and keep your integrity intact. Bless you!


Thanks, WCK. I know you do the same.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I meant thank for starting it. I agree that it's everyone. I said thanks for how they made me feel personally, I guess I should have given a general "kudos" to everyone who has kept it going so successfully.


I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.

But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?

Are we seeing a nice person acting like a bully over there - or a bully acting like a nice person over here?

After visiting WOW for a couple of days, I want to say, "Will the REAL (insert name) please stand up."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.
> 
> But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?
> 
> ...


I am satisfied that the REAL person is private and known best to close friends. Civility and small talk to acquaintances is fine to others.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.
> 
> But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?
> 
> ...


I just wrote a screed in answer to you Bon but this is neutral bridges and one mustn't bring up subjects which may attract controversy. Perhaps you could ask this question in WOW or better yet, don't ask at all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I am satisfied that the REAL person is private and known best to close friends. Civility and small talk to acquaintances is fine to others.


I agree. But under what circumstance is the rudeness and attack mind-set appropriate? I don't think it's ever appropriate - or maybe those vicious feelings should be kept private.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I just wrote a screed in answer to you Bon but this is neutral bridges and one mustn't bring up subjects which may attract controversy. Perhaps you could ask this question in WOW or better yet, don't ask at all.


Don't ask it at all? Okay. Consider it unasked.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Am I the only new Arrested Development fan? Who is your favorite?


DD, dsil, and I love the show. It's difficult to pick a favorite, they are all so good.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.
> 
> But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?
> 
> ...


There's the problem--birds of a feather tend to flock together. It seems that we have two distinct groups, and the members of one group might be all sweetness and light between themselves but confrontational with the other. It is sad that a polite, civilly-worded post cannot get a reply in the same way so often.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Well That went backward, let's see if I can fix it and make some sense.



bonbf3 said:


> I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.
> 
> But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?
> 
> ...


It is not that you are seeing nice people act as bullies, it is that you are seeing nice people respond to bullies in the only language the bullies understand. The answer is as close as the attendance sheet. Just look at who visits (or used to) this thread and who does not. You have your answer right there to the difference. How often do you see anyone from the D&P go out and interact and play well with others in other chit chat threads?

In addition, I just wonder if you are over at D&P saying the same things? Are you trying to figure out how it is that those people who claim to be so nice are so ugly on WOW? Because, that is the difference between the two alliances, you know, none of the libs assert that they are above being straightforward and even downright nasty when it is called for. When do you see the D&P gang admit to that?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree. But under what circumstance is the rudeness and attack mind-set appropriate? I don't think it's ever appropriate - or maybe those vicious feelings should be kept private.


I wish I had the answer.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Well That went backward, let's see if I can fix it and make some sense.
> 
> It is not that you are seeing nice people act as bullies, it is that you are seeing nice people respond to bullies in the only language the bullies understand. The answer is as close as the attendance sheet. Just look at who visits (or used to) this thread and who does not. You have your answer right there to the difference. How often do you see anyone from the D&P go out and interact and play well with others in other chit chat threads?
> 
> In addition, I just wonder if you are over at D&P saying the same things? Are you trying to figure out how it is that those people who claim to be so nice are so ugly on WOW? Because, that is the difference between the two alliances, you know, none of the libs assert that they are above being straightforward and even downright nasty when it is called for. When do you see the D&P gang admit to that?


As I have said before, meanness seems to be a common theme on all chat rooms, I have been told. This thread is the only solution I can see to that problem. I accept that things are going to erupt elsewhere but I believe that the "AOLs" you see here are showing their true personalities.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> As I have said before, meanness seems to be a common theme on all chat rooms, I have been told. This thread is the only solution I can see to that problem. I accept that things are going to erupt elsewhere but I believe that the "AOLs" you see here are showing their true personalities.


I am generally a happy, even-tempered person. When I am attacked or something that I feel strongly about is made fun off, I feel defensive. It is my right---or even in some cases my responsibility to respond. After awhile one gets tired of turning the other cheek. I'm not saying anything I'm saying here is right or wrong, I'm just trying to explain how I feel. I'm taking a KP vacation for at least the weekend.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree - this is a group effort, thanks to SQM for starting it.
> 
> But I must say, sometimes it's a nasty surprise to have a nice conversation with someone over here - then go on WOW and see the same person tearing someone to pieces. How can we act friendly on one thread and then vicious on another? Which one is an act?
> 
> ...


Bonnie, I think you nailed it when you first came here and said the reason you could participate here was because you were blissfully unaware of what was said on WOW.

I tried to explain to Designer that it wasn't fear or peer pressure that kept me or others from posting here. It's because we can't block our brains into little compartments that ignores what we've read elsewhere and then come here and pretend it doesn't matter. I hope she finds that message easier to accept when it comes from you.

Naively, I believed some of the posters that came to D&P claiming to want a better relationship and thought they would make an effort to target their comments to the issues rather than the personalities. It was naive of me to think that our behaviours would gradually change if we got to know each other better in a neutral thread -- that is why I originally suggested it and thanked SQM for setting it up. For the most part, it seems the majority prefers to make accusations and slam each other rather than discussing the issues.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> No I haven't, but I can imagine. Remind you of anyone?
> 
> I don't know that I have to see it, bc my cousin is STILL the same way. He just doesn't know when to stop, when other people have had enough. For some reason, he thinks it is his right to treat people a certain way and to act like a child.
> 
> To be completely honest, I can sometimes get that way with dh and my mom. As you all know, I am opinionated and stubborn. I can also forget that I am trying to be a better person, especially to those who love me most. I would never do it to anyone other than them, so I guess I kinda use it as an excuse, knowing how much they love me. I can get VERY worked up, believe it or not. :wink:


I do think that maybe we all tend to treat our intimates with less dignity than we treat our friends. I wonder why this is. I find it very hard when my son, for instance, thinks that it is OK to be rude. He is not a child, and I like to think he was brought up better than that. He has many friends and does not treat them the way he treats me or his sister. There are times when I would like to disown him entirely. I think there is never a need or reason to be nasty or rude. One can say what one thinks politely if one gives it a little thought.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Designer, I hope that your move goes well, and welcome to "God's country." I feel your pain in the packing. It is amazing how much one can accumulate. When we moved from Kelowna we chucked out so much stuff. Nine years late when we moved from Delta, we could not believe how much more stuff needed to be chucked out. We have a smaller house now, so hopefully when we need to move again there will not be so much stuff to get rid of.

I have a room in my house which is supposed to be my sewing room. It is affectionately called the "box room" now as there are so many boxes in there that still need to be unpacked. We have been here for three years, so I am sure that much of what is in those boxes can be thrown away.

All the best for your move. I do hope that you have good weather for the move. As you probably know, Vancouver Island weather can be unpredictable at that time of year.

All the best.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> As I have said before, meanness seems to be a common theme on all chat rooms, I have been told. This thread is the only solution I can see to that problem. I accept that things are going to erupt elsewhere but I believe that the "AOLs" you see here are showing their true personalities.


I, for one, am tired of the "AOL" reference. Can't everyone just refer to their fellow posters as individuals and stop lumping a large group into one sector? The "AOL" name came over from another thread where is was used as an insult, it need not be referred to on this "neutral" thread.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Well That went backward, let's see if I can fix it and make some sense.
> 
> It is not that you are seeing nice people act as bullies, it is that you are seeing nice people respond to bullies in the only language the bullies understand. The answer is as close as the attendance sheet. Just look at who visits (or used to) this thread and who does not. You have your answer right there to the difference. How often do you see anyone from the D&P go out and interact and play well with others in other chit chat threads?
> 
> In addition, I just wonder if you are over at D&P saying the same things? Are you trying to figure out how it is that those people who claim to be so nice are so ugly on WOW? Because, that is the difference between the two alliances, you know, none of the libs assert that they are above being straightforward and even downright nasty when it is called for. When do you see the D&P gang admit to that?


The best thing one can do to a bully is ignore. And remember that for the most part all this in anonymous. People feel they can say anything to anyone when they are well hidden. If you do not rise to the bully's bait, the bully usually gets tired of the antics and goes away, usually to bully someone else.

I looked up WOW and decided it was not for me. So these people who feel the need, can do their worst. It is not something I will be party to. I was upset when KPG first mentioned that things were being said about me. Well, let them. They only know my words, not me. I have never met anyone physically on this thread, and this is the only thread I have anything to do with. I don't have time for any more.

So I say do not visit the thread. Ignore what the nasties say, have fun and interesting conversation here. What I don't know can't hurt me, so let them do their worst.

Have a great weekend, everyone. The weather here has cooled down a bit; after being in the high 20s it is now in the low 20s, great weather to get out in my garden and tame those dastardly, nasty, bullying weeds. (Weeds I can do something about and must not ignore.)


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> The best thing one can do to a bully is ignore. And remember that for the most part all this in anonymous. People feel they can say anything to anyone when they are well hidden. If you do not rise to the bully's bait, the bully usually gets tired of the antics and goes away, usually to bully someone else.
> 
> I looked up WOW and decided it was not for me. So these people who feel the need, can do their worst. It is not something I will be party to. I was upset when KPG first mentioned that things were being said about me. Well, let them. They only know my words, not me. I have never met anyone physically on this thread, and this is the only thread I have anything to do with. I don't have time for any more.
> 
> ...


Have fun in the garden and enjoy cooler weather. BTW, I have never seen a negative post about you.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> The best thing one can do to a bully is ignore. And remember that for the most part all this in anonymous. People feel they can say anything to anyone when they are well hidden. If you do not rise to the bully's bait, the bully usually gets tired of the antics and goes away, usually to bully someone else.
> 
> I looked up WOW and decided it was not for me. So these people who feel the need, can do their worst. It is not something I will be party to. I was upset when KPG first mentioned that things were being said about me. Well, let them. They only know my words, not me. I have never met anyone physically on this thread, and this is the only thread I have anything to do with. I don't have time for any more.
> 
> ...


If not for on the thread, BlueJay, then please if that piece of info caused you any pain look at the list connected to member's names. I can assure you that nobody said anything mean about you that I noticed. Somebody may have disagreed with a point that you made. That is fair game. 
I think it was a silly accusation, but really if it gives you pause, check it out. 
I, for one, have always hated that "someone said" type of info as then you wonder which someone. At least if someone says "knitanon" badmouthed you, you know where it was supposed to have come from.


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

I wonder if people would say nasty things to each other if they were face-to-face. The trouble with the internet is that, basically, it is anonymous. People write in from all over the world, people we will probably never meet, and this seems to give others an outlet for being nasty. There are, however, people who just can't help being nasty. While there are some topics on this thread that I have no interest in, when there is something to say, it behooves us all to say it as politely as possible. There is never any need to be nasty.

I sent a PM to KPG and the outcome of that conversation was that since I do not know the people on WOW and they do not know me, I need not worry. It will only bother me if and when it comes home to roost. It really sounds like a place we should all stay away from.

I have found that people on this thread are usually polite, although sometimes I have a problem with the sense of humour of some. However, I ignore what I don't understand and ask if I want further information.

I am hoping that PP does not leave. She is a very sensible person with a great sense of humour. But sometimes enough is enough. If what she says here is being misinterpreted elsewhere, then it is better not to say anything.

How sad that we have to be so afraid of anonymous bullies. But, yes, it does affect us when we see something nasty being said about us. I must admit that I did get upset when KPG said that people were saying things about me on WOW. Well let them. I will never go to that site, so what they are referring to is probably something I have said on this thread or on the KP thread generally. I am becoming much more circumspect when I make a reply to something. Sometimes others think you are being nasty when all you are doing is voicing a difference of opinion. Some people can be so narrow minded.

I will say thank you SQM for initiating this thread. It is a place where we can have discussions or general chit chat about "nice" things. 

I find the best thing to do is send a PM if something bothers you or if you don't want the world to know what you want to say. If the recipient opens it, then one can have a private discussion. If it is not opened, as some of mine have not been, then that is their problem, not mine.

I am so glad that the posters here are usually friendly and cooperative. Let's not spoil the ship for a pennorth of paint, as my mother would say. Ignore the nasties and stick with the nicies.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> If not for on the thread, BlueJay, then please if that piece of info caused you any pain look at the list connected to member's names. I can assure you that nobody said anything mean about you that I noticed. Somebody may have disagreed with a point that you made. That is fair game.
> I think it was a silly accusation, but really if it gives you pause, check it out.
> I, for one, have always hated that "someone said" type of info as then you wonder which someone. At least if someone says "knitanon" badmouthed you, you know where it was supposed to have come from.


It gave me pause for a moment, then I dealt with it directly . It isn't nice to feel one is being talked about. But there is nothing I can do about what people say, particularly when I don't know the people saying it, so I ignore and get on with something I enjoy doing, like walking my dogs. Must go and do that now. Many things to do today.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Have fun in the garden and enjoy cooler weather. BTW, I have never seen a negative post about you.


Thank you, Cindy. That is nice to know. I try very hard not to be nasty. I had so much of that growing up and during my first marriage that I cannot bring myself to say anything nasty. I do have strong opinions about some things, but I try to phrase my responses in a polite way. That is one of the great things about the written word. One can edit it before sending.

Have a great day.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

To respond to a thought that comes up often...that being would we have exchanges in real life to rival those here? 
I can't imagine that we would, I know that I don't. 
The other side of that coin is that we would not spend any time with many of the people who we cannot avoid here. I suppose I should only speak for myself, I wouldn't spend any time with people who I am not able to avoid here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Someone asked for a bird story. I have one. I just saw three baby seagulls being guarded by their mom and dad. They are brown but as they get older they turn white. The male baby has a ruff of brown feathers around his neck. One baby flew across the river and the mother went after it and got it back to the home rocks. Sweet.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Everyone has a breaking point. Some avoid it better than others.



bonbf3 said:


> I agree. But under what circumstance is the rudeness and attack mind-set appropriate? I don't think it's ever appropriate - or maybe those vicious feelings should be kept private.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So they should not meet. IMHO Nothing to be gained; much lost.



maysmom said:


> There's the problem--birds of a feather tend to flock together. It seems that we have two distinct groups, and the members of one group might be all sweetness and light between themselves but confrontational with the other. It is sad that a polite, civilly-worded post cannot get a reply in the same way so often.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting thoughts. 
'


Knitanon said:


> Well That went backward, let's see if I can fix it and make some sense.
> 
> It is not that you are seeing nice people act as bullies, it is that you are seeing nice people respond to bullies in the only language the bullies understand. The answer is as close as the attendance sheet. Just look at who visits (or used to) this thread and who does not. You have your answer right there to the difference. How often do you see anyone from the D&P go out and interact and play well with others in other chit chat threads?
> 
> In addition, I just wonder if you are over at D&P saying the same things? Are you trying to figure out how it is that those people who claim to be so nice are so ugly on WOW? Because, that is the difference between the two alliances, you know, none of the libs assert that they are above being straightforward and even downright nasty when it is called for. When do you see the D&P gang admit to that?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't follow. '



SQM said:


> As I have said before, meanness seems to be a common theme on all chat rooms, I have been told. This thread is the only solution I can see to that problem. I accept that things are going to erupt elsewhere but I believe that the "AOLs" you see here are showing their true personalities.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you.



cookiequeen said:


> I am generally a happy, even-tempered person. When I am attacked or something that I feel strongly about is made fun off, I feel defensive. It is my right---or even in some cases my responsibility to respond. After awhile one gets tired of turning the other cheek. I'm not saying anything I'm saying here is right or wrong, I'm just trying to explain how I feel. I'm taking a KP vacation for at least the weekend.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I can't follow. '


I assume that the personalities I see on Bridges are the true personalities of the posters.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting.



SQM said:


> I assume that the personalities I see on Bridges are the true personalities of the posters.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Something definitely neutral. A picture of part of my back garden, a picture taken in John Forrest National Park, a few km from where I live and a phot of my son at work. unless you think boasting is not neutral.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> I assume that the personalities I see on Bridges are the true personalities of the posters.


I like to think that is so. Although I think I am a bit different in person. I know I tend to be a bit stiff, shall we say, when I am writing. That is so even when I am writing letters to my sister. But really I am an easy going person and am much looser when with people. I am, nevertheless, quite opinionated sometimes but always try to put forth my perspective without being cruel or nasty. I hope I come across that way.

To quote Rabbie Burns:

O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> Someone asked for a bird story. I have one. I just saw three baby seagulls being guarded by their mom and dad. They are brown but as they get older they turn white. The male baby has a ruff of brown feathers around his neck. One baby flew across the river and the mother went after it and got it back to the home rocks. Sweet.


Seeing something like that would set me up for the day. What a wonderful sight. Ain't nature grand.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Someone asked for a bird story. I have one. I just saw three baby seagulls being guarded by their mom and dad. They are brown but as they get older they turn white. The male baby has a ruff of brown feathers around his neck. One baby flew across the river and the mother went after it and got it back to the home rocks. Sweet.


 :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> I do think that maybe we all tend to treat our intimates with less dignity than we treat our friends. I wonder why this is. I find it very hard when my son, for instance, thinks that it is OK to be rude. He is not a child, and I like to think he was brought up better than that. He has many friends and does not treat them the way he treats me or his sister. There are times when I would like to disown him entirely. I think there is never a need or reason to be nasty or rude. One can say what one thinks politely if one gives it a little thought.


I think one reason is bc our intimates know who we are and where we are coming from. Others don't have that context, so we subconsciously don't act that way as a self preservation tactic. I know that I have treated my mom very poorly in the past. Though I thought I was defending myself, it is not ok. I treat everyone with the decency and kindness I was raised on (unless they repeatedly show me that they do not desire it). Is your son always like that? Or only in certain situations? It took some self discovery, lifestyle changes, and reading Judith Orloff's book, "emotional Freedom", for me to change. I hope that one day you can get through to your son. I'm sure he was raised better, and I KNOW that you deserve better. You are his mother.

I totally agree. There is no excuse for either. It shouldn't take much thought to be polite, it should be inherent. In those times when someone is being so rude that you think you have no choice but to return in kind, then it requires thought and patience. How ever there are those rare circumstances when it is understandable to "lose your cool", so to speak. I don't know that this would be considered rudeness, though. What do you think?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> Something definitely neutral. A picture of part of my back garden, a picture taken in John Forrest National Park, a few km from where I live and a phot of my son at work. unless you think boasting is not neutral.


Very nice, eve! Thanks for sharing!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> I am generally a happy, even-tempered person. When I am attacked or something that I feel strongly about is made fun off, I feel defensive. It is my right---or even in some cases my responsibility to respond. After awhile one gets tired of turning the other cheek. I'm not saying anything I'm saying here is right or wrong, I'm just trying to explain how I feel. I'm taking a KP vacation for at least the weekend.


I am the same way and completely agree.

Have a great vaca!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> The best thing one can do to a bully is ignore. And remember that for the most part all this in anonymous. People feel they can say anything to anyone when they are well hidden. If you do not rise to the bully's bait, the bully usually gets tired of the antics and goes away, usually to bully someone else.
> 
> I looked up WOW and decided it was not for me. So these people who feel the need, can do their worst. It is not something I will be party to. I was upset when KPG first mentioned that things were being said about me. Well, let them. They only know my words, not me. I have never met anyone physically on this thread, and this is the only thread I have anything to do with. I don't have time for any more.
> 
> ...


I love everything you said here. Bravo!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> I wonder if people would say nasty things to each other if they were face-to-face. The trouble with the internet is that, basically, it is anonymous. People write in from all over the world, people we will probably never meet, and this seems to give others an outlet for being nasty. There are, however, people who just can't help being nasty. While there are some topics on this thread that I have no interest in, when there is something to say, it behooves us all to say it as politely as possible. There is never any need to be nasty.
> 
> I sent a PM to KPG and the outcome of that conversation was that since I do not know the people on WOW and they do not know me, I need not worry. It will only bother me if and when it comes home to roost. It really sounds like a place we should all stay away from.
> 
> ...


Again: love it and bravo!!

You really deserve to give yourself a pat on the back.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Someone asked for a bird story. I have one. I just saw three baby seagulls being guarded by their mom and dad. They are brown but as they get older they turn white. The male baby has a ruff of brown feathers around his neck. One baby flew across the river and the mother went after it and got it back to the home rocks. Sweet.


How awesome! Thanks for sharing! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Bonnie, I think you nailed it when you first came here and said the reason you could participate here was because you were blissfully unaware of what was said on WOW.
> 
> I tried to explain to Designer that it wasn't fear or peer pressure that kept me or others from posting here. It's because we can't block our brains into little compartments that ignores what we've read elsewhere and then come here and pretend it doesn't matter. I hope she finds that message easier to accept when it comes from you.
> 
> Naively, I believed some of the posters that came to D&P claiming to want a better relationship and thought they would make an effort to target their comments to the issues rather than the personalities. It was naive of me to think that our behaviours would gradually change if we got to know each other better in a neutral thread -- that is why I originally suggested it and thanked SQM for setting it up. For the most part, it seems the majority prefers to make accusations and slam each other rather than discussing the issues.


============
WCK I understand what you are saying. I just think it is worth trying. When it comes down to the nitty gritty we each have to do what is right for us. I am certainly no expert . It does have to be both sides though,if we want to slowly make a difference. A lot has been said and a lot of hurt has happened as well as nastines, and there are some who are not interested. I am not attacking anyone specific here. It is just a fact. For whatever reason there are some who are not willing to try -- Personally, I never expected the other threads to change much as they have been getting nastier and nastier since they first started. Feelings have been hurt and people have reacted. I just think that SQM hoped, Like I did and others that it would be easier if we knew each other aside from the nasty threads. I hoped that it could start a change although there are some on both sides who have no interest. I thought that there were some there who would give it a try.

HOwever we have one person who feels that it is worth while from the Right and that is Bonnie who has friends here. She has been friendly and kind and the feelings are reciprocated. None of the others were even willing to give it more than one or two posts. I went back to NB # 1 and could not find anyone who said anything nasty to anyone else although you say that happened.I haven't gone all the way through #2. So, if there were that few nasty remarks then maybe it might have helped if both sides tried. Just my thoughts. I know that I am finished with WOw. I also know that those who are attacked, retaliate and have since the beginning. I have no feelings of defensiveness with you. We have no reason to dislike each other in my opinion. Maybe you feel differently. This thread is one of the reasons I have opted out of the nastiness. Maybe if some came here, they would do the same?? who knows.

Anyway, the only one who can try to avoid the nastiness is each one of us - those who aren't interested, aren't interested. We are not responsible for others just ourselves. Bonnie has shown me that even those of us who have different opinions can be kind and friendly to each other.

I guess it is our individual choice. There are quite a few on D and P who don't go to WOW - those were the ones I personally was hoping would join us. We felt that the more who came and tried, the more we all would gain. It has been a soft place to get away from the hurt and anger to me . I don't want to go back to the insults, and hurtful posts - I don't like myself when I react. that is why I am not going back there. Bonnie has shown courage -- It is not easy to the only one who is willing to try. I applaud her - I am speaking for myself here, by the way.

Anyway, I had better finish this. The nastiness has been going on since KP opened. I get the feeling that you think it has always been one sided- that is not a fact. It takes two - and we have had our share of being ridiculed and attacked. Each of us. I have made private efforts to reach one or two people over the past year . Recently I was told that there was no possible way that person would ever talk to or be friends with a liberal. Not much you can do then. I am not quoting any one specific. It was a private conversation, but it showed my how much we are hated by some on the Right. I definitely don't feel that all have that same attitude - 
I will be moving out to your neck of the woods. Possibly we can have coffee sometime.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I haven't seen much of Huck this past while. I thought it was time to post a picture or two and hopefully she will do the same when she comes back on


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> I like to think that is so. Although I think I am a bit different in person. I know I tend to be a bit stiff, shall we say, when I am writing. That is so even when I am writing letters to my sister. But really I am an easy going person and am much looser when with people. I am, nevertheless, quite opinionated sometimes but always try to put forth my perspective without being cruel or nasty. I hope I come across that way.
> 
> To quote Rabbie Burns:
> 
> O would some power the giftie gie us to see ourselves as others see us.


I see what others see when I look at myself in a store window. That is good enough.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I haven't seen much of Huck this past while. I thought it was time to post a picture or two and hopefully she will do the same when she comes back on


Designer1234
That picture is EXQUISITE. Love the colors and the workmanship is fabulous. Like the sweater as well, nice finished edges. I will post a really wild sweater today or tomorrow. You won't believe the design. Ever once in a while I have to go WAY OUT. I need to find a way to place it so its insanity shows.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> I see what others see when I look at myself in a store window. That is good enough.


Ah, SQM, but that is only the outside. We can't judge a book by its cover, can we? It is what is inside that makes us all unique, and there are few people in our lives that actually see the real us. Some very beautiful people can be so ugly and spiteful on the inside. It would be nice to be a fly on the wall and be able to look at ourselves objectively.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I haven't seen much of Huck this past while. I thought it was time to post a picture or two and hopefully she will do the same when she comes back on


Beautiful work.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I haven't seen much of Huck this past while. I thought it was time to post a picture or two and hopefully she will do the same when she comes back on


Beautiful work as always, Designer.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234
A crewel picture I fashioned after a painting I did, which I copied from a Postcard. 
The crazy piece I shall post later The blue Pullover has little designs I knitted separately and attached to it. The other piece is some neck adornment which is a conversation piece.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234
I keep going back to your underwater creation. The colors grab me. I hope you framed it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Super cool Shirley. Did you ever work professionally with any of your crafts?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You are creative in so many different directions, Huckleberry. Beautiful.


Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> A crewel picture I fashioned after a painting I did, which I copied from a Postcard.
> The crazy piece I shall post later The blue Pullover has little designs I knitted separately and attached to it. The other piece is some neck adornment which is a conversation piece.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> I keep going back to your underwater creation. The colors grab me. I hope you framed it.


It is not framed except with fabric. My nephew loves deep sea diving and was married a few years ago. So made it for him.

There is a sleeve at the back which hangs on a pole . I have framed some of the smaller pieces over the years.

I have sold some of my work, but have never tried to sell them. If someone asked me I would do one. I preferred to donate them to Cancer awareness to be auction off - especially after my son died of Esophagael cancer. Prior to that I donated them for raffles for a crisis center in my home town at the time an it was a quilt (hand painted) it made enough to pay for a playroom, supplies and an out door playroom in the new crisis shelter. I sold them sometimes. The Stepping stones were a business and the Copper work was a business in New Zealand. I learned that I liked to teach and I liked to do it without having to do someone else's requirements. I never knew what I would end up with when I started the wall hangings. If I did take an order I made it clear that the general idea was fine but no details would be given, and if they wanted my work they would have to accept what I did. I taught thread painting and landscape quilts to groups and traveled around Alberta doing that.

I do my work because it brings me joy. So I do them for me -not anyone else usually. I haven't done any recently. Life got in the way when son died and my husband got ill and I lost the heart for it. I am taking my sewing machine to BC and hopefully with feel like doing a few. I loved the doing.

Huck! I love your work. You do so many different things so well. I am enjoying seeing all the variety of things you have done. You are a true artist. I love what you create.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234
Too bad you are so far away, I would love to learn to perfect hand-dying material. I find my dies at times too stark in color. I like them to be like water colors, soft unless for a background like your underwater picture.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

My mistake. Huckle your items are fantastic. The crewel looks so vintage. Do you remember how old the card was?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Too bad you are so far away, I would love to learn to perfect hand-dying material. I find my dies at times too stark in color. I like them to be like water colors, soft unless for a background like your underwater picture.


I Used wall paper tubs and laid the folded white fabric lengthwise in the tub, soaked them in water and dropped different colors along the whole length of the tub. (the fabric is folded evenly. Then I drizzled color in rows and then sprayed it with water, just like you do with watercolor. 
I let them stand for a little while then I sprayed them again and then carefully squeezed them - this was done mainly so that the fabric ran like water color. The underwater used pretty well blue with a touch of turuoise . Lots of my skies were done in a soft blue with a touch of purple, or pink or both . I will see if I can find one that has one of those skies. My southwestern scene was defintely planned as a southwestern sky, and then I could picture the cliff dwellings so followed the shape. It is on my wall here. It is my husbands favorite. I am not sure whether I have shown it here so forgive me if I am duplicating a post.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> A crewel picture I fashioned after a painting I did, which I copied from a Postcard.
> The crazy piece I shall post later The blue Pullover has little designs I knitted separately and attached to it. The other piece is some neck adornment which is a conversation piece.


I love tje first one especially. very very nice. You have the art inside you. You love what you do! way to go!

Huckleberry: so do you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> My mistake. Huckle your items are fantastic. The crewel looks so vintage. Do you remember how old the card was?


SQM
Thank you very much. The card was from the 60s if I remember right. I save all pretty postcards and books with old drawings and pictures.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I love tje first one especially. very very nice. You have the art inside you. You love what you do! way to go!
> 
> Huckleberry: so do you.


Designer1234
thank you very much. I truly love everything I do. Just wish I had more hands to tend to all the hobbies I cherish. Right now I am fiddling with placement of patterns on an embroidery machine. I will show you what I mean. Will send a picture shortly.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I Used wall paper tubs and laid the folded white fabric lengthwise in the tub, soaked them in water and dropped different colors along the whole length of the tub. (the fabric is folded evenly. Then I drizzled color in rows and then sprayed it with water, just like you do with watercolor.
> I let them stand for a little while then I sprayed them again and then carefully squeezed them - this was done mainly so that the fabric ran like water color. The underwater used pretty well blue with a touch of turuoise . Lots of my skies were done in a soft blue with a touch of purple, or pink or both . I will see if I can find one that has one of those skies. My southwestern scene was defintely planned as a southwestern sky, and then I could picture the cliff dwellings so followed the shape. It is on my wall here. It is my husbands favorite. I am not sure whether I have shown it here so forgive me if I am duplicating a post.


Designer1234
GORGEOUS. You are a design genius and again the colors are beautiful.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Fiddling with embroidery. The first picture is of an Apron. I combined and manipulated regular stitches on the machine with some pattern to fill a basket with flowers. It got pretty tough at the end, I had designs on top of designs and the needle had a hard time to get through those. Then I had a pattern of a bottle and an other one of a golfer. I stitched the Bottles and then placed the frustrated Golfers into the Bottle upside down. The Cathedral is an over 30 year old pattern (very interesting how it was designed by some Geniuses but much too involved to explain here). The 1st picture shows a cathedral in its original design. I then stitched a 2nd picture and when it was finished, I moved the stitches over by a mm and stitched over the first one.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer here the rest of the pictures.

sorry a wrong picture went in. I will send the original picture of the Cathedral this is the 2nd stitching.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

original picture of the cathedral

sorry wrong again. This is the 2nd one where I moved the stitches over 1mm


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

So sorry, here I go again. This is the 1st and original


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> So sorry, here I go again.


You are thread painting in these. That is what I do sometimes. I do it free hand as I really enjoy 'painting' I think you would too. I always held off from buying a new embroider machine as I like doing it on my own. My friend has one and does some wonderful work with it. I loved watchng a picture appear. I was seriously thinking about buying one when Rob got sick - haven't touched the sewing machine since. Will do some when I get to Vancouver Island.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> So sorry, here I go again. This is the 1st and original


Amazing. What don't you do? Yay Huckle.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I Used wall paper tubs and laid the folded white fabric lengthwise in the tub, soaked them in water and dropped different colors along the whole length of the tub. (the fabric is folded evenly. Then I drizzled color in rows and then sprayed it with water, just like you do with watercolor.
> I let them stand for a little while then I sprayed them again and then carefully squeezed them - this was done mainly so that the fabric ran like water color. The underwater used pretty well blue with a touch of turuoise . Lots of my skies were done in a soft blue with a touch of purple, or pink or both . I will see if I can find one that has one of those skies. My southwestern scene was defintely planned as a southwestern sky, and then I could picture the cliff dwellings so followed the shape. It is on my wall here. It is my husbands favorite. I am not sure whether I have shown it here so forgive me if I am duplicating a post.


This is the work of an artist and the explanation from the artist. We are so lucky that you and Huck are sharing your work with us. To have that vision through all the process just blows me away. To have the open mind to see what you see, along with the focus to do it beginning to end, is a rare gift.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> A crewel picture I fashioned after a painting I did, which I copied from a Postcard.
> The crazy piece I shall post later The blue Pullover has little designs I knitted separately and attached to it. The other piece is some neck adornment which is a conversation piece.


Such talent. And you painted the picture first?!! Amazing to me. It's beautiful. I'll bet the painting is beautiful, too.

The sweater and scarf are very nice - eye-catching, original. It must be very gratifying to be able to do all that. The sweater just makes me smile. Whimsical is the word I was searching for - for both the sweater and the scarf.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> So sorry, here I go again. This is the 1st and original


Stunning - truly - knocks me out.

You might be interested in the artwork of Jason Padgett. He has a long and interesting story. His artwork is based on math - geometry. It is extremely detailed and precise. You can google him easily - he's been in the news. Fascinating story. I hope you get a chance to look. I'd be interested to know if you like what he does.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Amazing. What don't you do? Yay Huckle.


SQM
Thank you very much. I have never done basket weaving, but love to watch people do that. Some Baskets, particularly those of Native Americans, are fabulous. I love to try everything. Actually if I could start over again in Life I would be a cabinetmaker. I love wood, love its smell and how generous it is to let us work with it. I love carved furniture of the 17 and 1800s. Would love to create such a piece.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Stunning - truly - knocks me out.
> 
> You might be interested in the artwork of Jason Padgett. He has a long and interesting story. His artwork is based on math - geometry. It is extremely detailed and precise. You can google him easily - he's been in the news. Fascinating story. I hope you get a chance to look. I'd be interested to know if you like what he does.


bonbf3
Thank you very much. I certainly will check. Thank you. I appreciate ALL Art even if I do not particularly care for what it is, I value the talent and efforts of others.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> Thank you very much. I certainly will check. Thank you. I appreciate ALL Art even if I do not particularly care for what it is, I value the talent and efforts of others.


So do I - it's very inspiring.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3
I googled Jason Padgett. Breathtaking work he does. I have done some designs with a compass and other tools and surely not as refined as his by a long shot. He has much more patience than I as I can see. He perfects and expands whereas when I think it is o.k. I move on to something else. Thank you again for directing me to him. 

I am attaching a picture of similar designs someone digitized for an embroidery machine. An altogether different approach to the same foundation and a much less steady hand needed but still very creative.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you got it, flaunt it. Lovely. Thanks for sharing.



EveMCooke said:


> Something definitely neutral. A picture of part of my back garden, a picture taken in John Forrest National Park, a few km from where I live and a phot of my son at work. unless you think boasting is not neutral.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My curiosity is running wild. Can't wait.



Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> That picture is EXQUISITE. Love the colors and the workmanship is fabulous. Like the sweater as well, nice finished edges. I will post a really wild sweater today or tomorrow. You won't believe the design. Ever once in a while I have to go WAY OUT. I need to find a way to place it so its insanity shows.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> This is the work of an artist and the explanation from the artist. We are so lucky that you and Huck are sharing your work with us. To have that vision through all the process just blows me away. To have the open mind to see what you see, along with the focus to do it beginning to end, is a rare gift.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> I googled Jason Padgett. Breathtaking work he does. I have done some designs with a compass and other tools and surely not as refined as his by a long shot. He has much more patience than I as I can see. He perfects and expands whereas when I think it is o.k. I move on to something else. Thank you again for directing me to him.
> 
> I am attaching a picture of similar designs someone digitized for an embroidery machine. An altogether different approach to the same foundation and a much less steady hand needed but still very creative.


I'm glad you checked it out. He has a surprising story - no interest in such things until he suffered a serious closed head injury. Thanks for letting me know what you think.

These patterns you've posted are very pretty. I can see that they would have to be done by machine due to the precision.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Something definitely neutral. A picture of part of my back garden, a picture taken in John Forrest National Park, a few km from where I live and a phot of my son at work. unless you think boasting is not neutral.


EveMCooke
thank you for sharing part of your life with us. You must be kept very busy tending to your garden. It looks like you have a large assortment of plants. A great habitat for birds and butterflies I am sure. We have lots of deer around and they love to devour what we plant.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> I googled Jason Padgett. Breathtaking work he does. I have done some designs with a compass and other tools and surely not as refined as his by a long shot. He has much more patience than I as I can see. He perfects and expands whereas when I think it is o.k. I move on to something else. Thank you again for directing me to him.
> 
> I am attaching a picture of similar designs someone digitized for an embroidery machine. An altogether different approach to the same foundation and a much less steady hand needed but still very creative.


WOW!! I love that you do precise work. It is something I can't do. I am very loose and don't like to follow patterns or to do anything but what I want to do. I have this need to do things differently. I love that you are playing with designs and drawing and planning. I am too much inclined to just start and see where I end up. YOu do wonderful work. There is no bad work in my opinion. I love to teach that many people (actually everyone) has abilities they don't know they have. I so strongly believe in 'trying'. obviously Huck you feel the same thing. We just go about it differently. I have a friend who does the most perfect, wonderful designs and follows through. She likes my work and I like her work but neither of us can do the other person's work, nor do we want to. That to me is what makes it interesting -- Nothing pleases me more than to teach a class and see someone light up and to k now that they have discovered they can do something they never dreamed they could do. Even if they don't carry on (and some do and some don't) they KNOW that they can.

So often people have said to me - I could never do that, I don't have any talent. I say, okay, if you can't do the class to your complete satisfaction, and if you try, I won't charge you for the class. It is hard to open up your abilities if you have kept them locked up your whole life. Most times they really want to be able to do something -- you would be amazed at the work some of my students have accomplished to their complete surprise. Soooo satisfying.

I love to see the surprise and joy to look at their work and say 'I can't believe I did that!) my classes are not step by step, I ask what do you want to do there, and at first they are uncertain - but often (not always) they suggest something and I say okay, do it. Often I just watch as they 'build a scene' in a completely different way than I would have - and lo and behold their work is wonderful and speaks to them.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> thank you for sharing part of your life with us. You must be kept very busy tending to your garden. It looks like you have a large assortment of plants. A great habitat for birds and butterflies I am sure. We have lots of deer around and they love to devour what we plant.


For anyone who is interested in Photography our admin has another forum for photographers, set up exactly like this one here is the link

http://www.uglyhedgehog.com

the photographs are outstanding. It is sad though as chit chat has the same arguments,political threads and type of conversation that are found here. Only with this thread it is mostly men. I would recommend that all you you look at the photography. The work is wonderful.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

To Huck and Designer

Thank you for posting these pictures. They are truly wonderful. I may have the talent (latent) but never seem to have the time to work at many projects. But I do admire the creativity that goes into art work, whether I like the finished project of not. We can't all like the same things.

I am building up a garden right now, since we moved into our present house, and that takes an awful lot of time I am finding. By the time I have tended the garden, read the posts here, made dinner, walked the dogs, etc., there does not seem to be a lot of time left for artistic pursuits, unfortunately. And, of course, my energy level is not what it used to be. But ladies, keep on doing what you are doing and sharing with the rest of us. We may just be inspired to try something new.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> To Huck and Designer
> 
> Thank you for posting these pictures. They are truly wonderful. I may have the talent (latent) but never seem to have the time to work at many projects. But I do admire the creativity that goes into art work, whether I like the finished project of not. We can't all like the same things.
> 
> I am building up a garden right now, since we moved into our present house, and that takes an awful lot of time I am finding. By the time I have tended the garden, read the posts here, made dinner, walked the dogs, etc., there does not seem to be a lot of time left for artistic pursuits, unfortunately. And, of course, my energy level is not what it used to be. But ladies, keep on doing what you are doing and sharing with the rest of us. We may just be inspired to try something new.


Thankyou. I believe those who garden and love doing it are artists too. I believe that those who love to cook are artists too. I don't believe there are restrictions. There have been situations in my life that have caused me to avoid doing my art work. I love to teach and that is why I started the workshops , but all the wall hangings I have shown were done before my Son died in 2009 - I haven't had the heart to do my thread painting since. I am starting to feel that I can start up again soon. Each of us have our own talents. Some are being Mothers, some are people who volunteer and help others, some are people who do good deeds. All are creating good things. I don't mean to preach but that is what I feel.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> WOW!! I love that you do precise work. It is something I can't do. I am very loose and don't like to follow patterns or to do anything but what I want to do. I have this need to do things differently. I love that you are playing with designs and drawing and planning. I am too much inclined to just start and see where I end up. YOu do wonderful work. There is no bad work in my opinion. I love to teach that many people (actually everyone) has abilities they don't know they have. I so strongly believe in 'trying'. obviously Huck you feel the same thing. We just go about it differently. I have a friend who does the most perfect, wonderful designs and follows through. She likes my work and I like her work but neither of us can do the other person's work, nor do we want to. That to me is what makes it interesting -- Nothing pleases me more than to teach a class and see someone light up and to k now that they have discovered they can do something they never dreamed they could do. Even if they don't carry on (and some do and some don't) they KNOW that they can.
> 
> So often people have said to me - I could never do that, I don't have any talent. I say, okay, if you can't do the class to your complete satisfaction, and if you try, I won't charge you for the class. It is hard to open up your abilities if you have kept them locked up your whole life. Most times they really want to be able to do something -- you would be amazed at the work some of my students have accomplished to their complete surprise. Soooo satisfying.
> 
> I love to see the surprise and joy to look at their work and say 'I can't believe I did that!) my classes are not step by step, I ask what do you want to do there, and at first they are uncertain - but often (not always) they suggest something and I say okay, do it. Often I just watch as they 'build a scene' in a completely different way than I would have - and lo and behold their work is wonderful and speaks to them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Good news. No major problems with my heart. I have to change my meds a bit but nothing except I have to try to get my bp more even. So, we are on our way sometime in October!
> 
> Thanks for all the support, Purl don't let her drive you away. This is a good thread. I hope to drop around some but not to WOW - we have lots to do and I am so relieved. Thank you all for the support!


As you can see, I am a couple of days behind. So glad to hear "no major problems". Hope it stays that way for many healthy years to come.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I think it was partly the expense, partly they didn't have as many productions that lived up to the standards of yesteryear. They have somehow worked out the kinks and there have been some amazing productions. I don't care for most of the ones that were popular movies that they are now trying to adapt to musicals, though.
> 
> What is/are your favorite (s)?


When I was in college, theaters offered "twofers" to students and a Wednesday matinee after lunch out was affordable. My group arranged our class schedule to have Wednesday afternoons off for the semester as much as we could. It helped that I was on the student council committee that managed the class card assignments.

A couple of favorites were Damn Yankees and The Pajama Game. Janis Paige was an excellent actress and singer, and we got tickets for anything with her, Elaine Stritch, Howard Keel, or John Raitt in the cast. These were people whose voices projected to us in the nosebleed seats without amplification. The older NYC theaters were well designed acoustically as well.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Thank you Huck and Shirley for sharing your artistic creations. You both have exceptional talent and inspire me to try a little harder to do interesting work.


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## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

Ladies I felt that we need a topic page just for asking prayer for our hurts and praise for getting answered requests. Our prayers should be precise with as few lines as possible for ease of reading through. you do not have to be Christian to ask for prayer here.
go to prayer list topic and post prayers


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huck- I took a class in making pine needle baskets in the part I was in in Arizona. I also had done some pottery and mixed the two. I have these pieces - Pat wouldn't let me give them away. It is hard on the hands - you need long pine needles. The only needles I have seen that workin Canada are in the Okanagan lake area in BC. You also use raffia. 
\
I dyed some of the rafia a dark brown and we also used walnuts sliced and dipped in a heavy clear plastic. I have not seen walnut trees but a friend who did baskets too brought me some. It was lots of fun. I can't do them now but I have a few of my baskets which I use all the time.

That is it for me for this week! ;-)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

karverr said:


> Ladies I felt that we need a topic page just for asking prayer for our hurts and praise for getting answered requests. Our prayers should be precise with as few lines as possible for ease of reading through. you do not have to be Christian to ask for prayer here.
> go to prayer list topic and post prayers


Hey. A happy super shock to see you posted here. Ladies - I would like to introduce you to Karverr - Master Craftsman from The Other Side. He has what seems to be a very interesting bio and does a myriad of crafts beautifully. A man who knits!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (But alas and alack he is spoken for.) However, Karverr has been very wary of us, so I want the Roller Derby Woman to skate gently tonight, if possible. If this is an interfaith group you can count me in.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

That's quite remarkable, Shirley. I've always wondered how pine needle basketry was done. I think you should start a museum to showcase your artistry.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> WOW!! I love that you do precise work. It is something I can't do. I am very loose and don't like to follow patterns or to do anything but what I want to do. I have this need to do things differently. I love that you are playing with designs and drawing and planning. I am too much inclined to just start and see where I end up. YOu do wonderful work. There is no bad work in my opinion. I love to teach that many people (actually everyone) has abilities they don't know they have. I so strongly believe in 'trying'. obviously Huck you feel the same thing. We just go about it differently. I have a friend who does the most perfect, wonderful designs and follows through. She likes my work and I like her work but neither of us can do the other person's work, nor do we want to. That to me is what makes it interesting -- Nothing pleases me more than to teach a class and see someone light up and to k now that they have discovered they can do something they never dreamed they could do. Even if they don't carry on (and some do and some don't) they KNOW that they can.
> 
> So often people have said to me - I could never do that, I don't have any talent. I say, okay, if you can't do the class to your complete satisfaction, and if you try, I won't charge you for the class. It is hard to open up your abilities if you have kept them locked up your whole life. Most times they really want to be able to do something -- you would be amazed at the work some of my students have accomplished to their complete surprise. Soooo satisfying.
> 
> I love to see the surprise and joy to look at their work and say 'I can't believe I did that!) my classes are not step by step, I ask what do you want to do there, and at first they are uncertain - but often (not always) they suggest something and I say okay, do it. Often I just watch as they 'build a scene' in a completely different way than I would have - and lo and behold their work is wonderful and speaks to them.


I know how you feel about the discovery. To me, that's the joy of teaching.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> To Huck and Designer
> 
> Thank you for posting these pictures. They are truly wonderful. I may have the talent (latent) but never seem to have the time to work at many projects. But I do admire the creativity that goes into art work, whether I like the finished project of not. We can't all like the same things.
> 
> I am building up a garden right now, since we moved into our present house, and that takes an awful lot of time I am finding. By the time I have tended the garden, read the posts here, made dinner, walked the dogs, etc., there does not seem to be a lot of time left for artistic pursuits, unfortunately. And, of course, my energy level is not what it used to be. But ladies, keep on doing what you are doing and sharing with the rest of us. We may just be inspired to try something new.


BlueJay, I think there's a lot of creativity - and patience - in gardening. When my DH used to do a lot of it, he'd go outside after work and just walk around looking at the plants and their progress. I told him he had the heart of a poet - meaning the sensitivity - to see the joy in something as tiny as the progress of a plant. I admire people who garden.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou. I believe those who garden and love doing it are artists too. I believe that those who love to cook are artists too. I don't believe there are restrictions. There have been situations in my life that have caused me to avoid doing my art work. I love to teach and that is why I started the workshops , but all the wall hangings I have shown were done before my Son died in 2009 - I haven't had the heart to do my thread painting since. I am starting to feel that I can start up again soon. Each of us have our own talents. Some are being Mothers, some are people who volunteer and help others, some are people who do good deeds. All are creating good things. I don't mean to preach but that is what I feel.


Shirley, I agree. And I relate to your not being able to do your thread painting after your son died. Grief takes up a lot of our energy. I couldn't sit down and read for years after my mother died. I love to read, but I just couldn't do it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hello Knit Friends.
I emptied a Quaker Oats Container and well, can't just discard a vessel like that, can we. I thought of keeping it for knitting needles decided to put some inside and the most frequently used on the outside. Now, if you don't know how to double up knitting, you can just knit a piece and weave Icord through it in the round to hold the needles. To strengthen the bottom of the container, I glued a lid from a Yogurt container upside down to the bottom and put one on the inside. I also put a tall and slender Jar on the inside for crochet hooks. Hate when I have to go and hunt for needles and hooks etc.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

karverr said:


> Ladies I felt that we need a topic page just for asking prayer for our hurts and praise for getting answered requests. Our prayers should be precise with as few lines as possible for ease of reading through. you do not have to be Christian to ask for prayer here.
> go to prayer list topic and post prayers


Hi, Karverr! That's a great idea. I'm going to check it out.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Huck- I took a class in making pine needle baskets in the part I was in in Arizona. I also had done some pottery and mixed the two. I have these pieces - Pat wouldn't let me give them away. It is hard on the hands - you need long pine needles. The only needles I have seen that workin Canada are in the Okanagan lake area in BC. You also use raffia.
> \
> I dyed some of the rafia a dark brown and we also used walnuts sliced and dipped in a heavy clear plastic. I have not seen walnut trees but a friend who did baskets too brought me some. It was lots of fun. I can't do them now but I have a few of my baskets which I use all the time.
> 
> That is it for me for this week! ;-)


So pretty! We have lots of pine needles here in GA, but they're not very long. They're very sharp, though! That must have been delicate work.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hey. A happy super shock to see you posted here. Ladies - I would like to introduce you to Karverr - Master Craftsman from The Other Side. He has what seems to be a very interesting bio and does a myriad of crafts beautifully. A man who knits!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (But alas and alack he is spoken for.) However, Karverr has been very wary of us, so I want the Roller Derby Woman to skate gently tonight, if possible. If this is an interfaith group you can count me in.


Well said, SQM. Karverr is a great guy - I'm so glad you're here, Karverr. I'm sure you'll be treated like the true gentleman you are. :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckle - your needle holder is so cool. What else can one do with oatmeal boxes? I always hate to toss them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Hello Knit Friends.
> I emptied a Quaker Oats Container and well, can't just discard a vessel like that, can we. I thought of keeping it for knitting needles decided to put some inside and the most frequently used on the outside. Now, if you don't know how to double up knitting, you can just knit a piece and weave Icord through it in the round to hold the needles. To strengthen the bottom of the container, I glued a lid from a Yogurt container upside down to the bottom and put one on the inside. I also put a tall and slender Jar on the inside for crochet hooks. Hate when I have to go and hunt for needles and hooks etc.


So clever!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Huck- I took a class in making pine needle baskets in the part I was in in Arizona. I also had done some pottery and mixed the two. I have these pieces - Pat wouldn't let me give them away. It is hard on the hands - you need long pine needles. The only needles I have seen that workin Canada are in the Okanagan lake area in BC. You also use raffia.
> \
> I dyed some of the rafia a dark brown and we also used walnuts sliced and dipped in a heavy clear plastic. I have not seen walnut trees but a friend who did baskets too brought me some. It was lots of fun. I can't do them now but I have a few of my baskets which I use all the time.
> 
> That is it for me for this week! ;-)


Shirley
You are without limits in your talent. I have done a little of the needle weaving. I kept the needles wet so that they would be more pliable and not break. I did nothing as refined as your work. I watch PBS (mostly listen) at lot and saw a Lady do the most fabulous needle weaving. All sorts of bowls, vases, animals. So grand. Thank you for sharing your beautiful creations. I salute you, Huck.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Huckle - your needle holder is so cool. What else can one do with oatmeal boxes? I always hate to toss them.


SQM
I have spray painted them and adorn them with whatever comes to mind or may be befitting the occasion and put gifts into them. Whenever given to kids, they use them to put small toys into them like Legos. I have also covered them with wallpaper and material. Easy to glue on. They can also be used for rolled up magazines or yarn and laid down on a shelf. Someone recently - I think it was MaidInBedlam said that she made doll cradles out of them when a child.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I like these ideas. Be interesting to use vintage fabric. Thanks for the tips.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I like these ideas. Be interesting to use vintage fabric. Thanks for the tips.


SQM
I love vintage fabrics and also old drawings, maps etc. which I find in books in 2nd hand stores. Could put some home baked cookies into the boxes and the Recipe on the outside.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Shirley, I agree. And I relate to your not being able to do your thread painting after your son died. Grief takes up a lot of our energy. I couldn't sit down and read for years after my mother died. I love to read, but I just couldn't do it.


bonbf3
and I am just the opposite, I want to do everything my Mom did and try to do everything again we did together. I do understand well however that grieving is so personal and no two people do it in the same manner.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer and Huckleberry
I am running out of superlatives. 
Your work and ideas are astounding.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Hello Knit Friends.
> I emptied a Quaker Oats Container and well, can't just discard a vessel like that, can we. I thought of keeping it for knitting needles decided to put some inside and the most frequently used on the outside. Now, if you don't know how to double up knitting, you can just knit a piece and weave Icord through it in the round to hold the needles. To strengthen the bottom of the container, I glued a lid from a Yogurt container upside down to the bottom and put one on the inside. I also put a tall and slender Jar on the inside for crochet hooks. Hate when I have to go and hunt for needles and hooks etc.


That would be so handy! I think it would be very handy indeed.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Designer and Huckleberry
> I am running out of superlatives.
> Your work and ideas are astounding.


Thanks -- that means a lot to me that my friends like my work. I know Huck feels the same. We don't do it for praise actually, we do it because we love to do it. I thank you all for your kind words.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Shirley, I am so happy to hear you are OK. Thank you Shirley and Huck for posting your wonderful projects. You both do beautiful and amazing work and it was so fun just to see your creations!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley, I am so happy to hear you are OK. Thank you Shirley and Huck for posting your wonderful projects. You both do beautiful and amazing work and it was so fun just to see your creations!


nice to see you here Cheeky! thanks for the kind words. Yes we have started to get ready to move. We hope to leave and be there for Oct. lst. we have started sorting. I am very excited.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitting Needle holder. The prev. picture showed the holder in the rough. I finished it and here it is.
Here a tip:
I knitted the cover with 4-ply yarn but the next one I will do in 2-ply. Since the stitches in 4-ply are big, some of the VERY thin needles want to slip down.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks -- that means a lot to me that my friends like my work. I know Huck feels the same. We don't do it for praise actually, we do it because we love to do it. I thank you all for your kind words.


Designer1234
you are so right, we love to share and hope to awaken creativity in others. Everyone has some. I think that I can speak for Shirley and say that all acknowledgements are much appreciated and we are looking for somebody to copy something we have done. That is the ultimate praise.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I have spray painted them and adorn them with whatever comes to mind or may be befitting the occasion and put gifts into them. Whenever given to kids, they use them to put small toys into them like Legos. I have also covered them with wallpaper and material. Easy to glue on. They can also be used for rolled up magazines or yarn and laid down on a shelf. Someone recently - I think it was MaidInBedlam said that she made doll cradles out of them when a child.


Good ideas. I love the idea of keeping rolled up magazines in there. We get a paper that I always want to read, and it's always lying around looking kind of out of place. I could make a pretty container, roll them up, and then read them when I have time. Thanks, Huck.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM called Huckleberry Huckle. I think that's cute. Does anyone remember the Richard Scarry books? Huckle was one of the characters - a yellow cat, I think. Those were funny books. My kids used to love the way the characters, especially the piggies, stared right out at you from the page. Makes me laugh just thinking about it. We spent hours - maybe days - reading those books.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> SQM called Huckleberry Huckle. I think that's cute. Does anyone remember the Richard Scarry books? Huckle was one of the characters - a yellow cat, I think. Those were funny books. My kids used to love the way the characters, especially the piggies, stared right out at you from the page. Makes me laugh just thinking about it. We spent hours - maybe days - reading those books.


I did not know this great bit of children's literary history. Thanks.
I guess I now have to call her Mrs. Berry to stay original.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I love vintage fabrics and also old drawings, maps etc. which I find in books in 2nd hand stores. Could put some home baked cookies into the boxes and the Recipe on the outside.


 My daughter once asked about her very inventive and energetic older brother, "Does Richard ever stop thinking?" That's what I'm wondering about you. Huck!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I did not know this great bit of children's literary history. Thanks.
> I guess I now have to call her Mrs. Berry to stay original.


 :lol: They are cute books - big books. A little hard to read because they have dialogue bubbles and text below the pictures. I never know which to read first.

They had intricate drawings of houses being built, machines working. I think one book is called "The Way Things Work."


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitting Needle holder. The prev. picture showed the holder in the rough. I finished it and here it is.
> Here a tip:
> I knitted the cover with 4-ply yarn but the next one I will do in 2-ply. Since the stitches in 4-ply are big, some of the VERY thin needles want to slip down.


That is super nice. Practical and aesthetically pleasing and ecologically green! You get a Superwoman badge.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Good morning everyone. I have been swimming and shopping . Just got home and am now going to read for awhile. We decided to take the day off and start sorting again tomorrow. 

I took two more bags of yarn over to the lys for distribution to the ladies who knit for charitable organizations. That is half my stash. I have decided to keep the rest for now. The movers are at my sons and will meet them in Duncan on Saturday. Very excited and they are really looking forward to a new adventure. We moved often with the Service over the years and it is not a major thing for us- we have done it often. This time is a bit more difficult because of our health but we are doing very well sorting stuff out. 

I am going to drop by later on. See you all later.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Good morning everyone. I have been swimming and shopping . Just got home and am now going to read for awhile. We decided to take the day off and start sorting again tomorrow.
> 
> I took two more bags of yarn over to the lys for distribution to the ladies who knit for charitable organizations. That is half my stash. I have decided to keep the rest for now. The movers are at my sons and will meet them in Duncan on Saturday. Very excited and they are really looking forward to a new adventure. We moved often with the Service over the years and it is not a major thing for us- we have done it often. This time is a bit more difficult because of our health but we are doing very well sorting stuff out.
> 
> I am going to drop by later on. See you all later.


Make sure you and Pat don't overdo and stay hydrated.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I had a bath today! And I like Richard Scarey books, too. And I don't know how to spell "Scarry."


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I had a bath today! And I like Richard Scarey books, too. And I don't know how to spell "Scarry."


What a sweet little dog!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> What a sweet little dog!!


It's Lucy Loo, dog number two. She's every bit as sweet as she looks.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> It's Lucy Loo, dog number two. She's every bit as sweet as she looks.


Love love love your new avatar. Perfection as is the dog.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

CHOCOLATE BANANA BREAD

2 c. flour
3/4 t baking soda
1/2 t salt
1 c sugar
1/4 c butter, softened
1 1/2 c mashed ripe banana (about 3 bananas)
1/2 c egg substitute (I use whites)
1/3 c plain low-fat yogurt
1/2 c choc chips

Preheat over to 350
Mix dry ingredients together.
Place sugar and butter in a large bowl, beat until well-blended. Add banana, egg substitute, and yogurt, beat until blended. Add flour, beat at low just until moist.
Melt choc chips in microwave or on stove, cool slightly. Add one cup of batter to choc and stir until well-combined. Spoon choc batter alternately with plain batter into 81/2 X 41/2 loaf pan coated with cooking spray. Swirl batters together.
Bake I hr at 350 or until toothpick comes out clean.
Cool 10 min in pan, remove and cool completely on rack.
(4.7 grams fat)
(I bake in smaller pans for 40-45 min)


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> CHOCOLATE BANANA BREAD
> 
> 2 c. flour
> 3/4 t baking soda
> ...


That looks incredible! Have to pick up bananas my next grocery trip.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> CHOCOLATE BANANA BREAD
> 
> 2 c. flour
> 3/4 t baking soda
> ...


Move to Manhattan so I can taste your goodies.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> That looks incredible! Have to pick up bananas my next grocery trip.


I use bittersweet chocolate rather than choc chips. The bananas were in the freezer. If I have bananas that are getting overripe, I throw them in the freezer, skins and all, and when I have enough I thaw and use them for baking.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I use bittersweet chocolate rather than choc chips. The bananas were in the freezer. If I have bananas that are getting overripe, I throw them in the freezer, skins and all, and when I have enough I thaw and use them for baking.


Thank you for the excellent tips.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thank you for the excellent tips.


You're welcome. My mother was such an excellent baker! I don't compare to her. She made bread, rolls, buns, pies, pasta noodles, cookies, cake--everything. Nothing too fancy, just delicious. She used to make an Italian fried dough thing that we never knew the name of and really haven't found a recipe for. It may have been something she just made that didn't really have a name. I think of my mother in the kitchen with me when I'm baking.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You're welcome. My mother was such an excellent baker! I don't compare to her. She made bread, rolls, buns, pies, pasta noodles, cookies, cake--everything. Nothing too fancy, just delicious. She used to make an Italian fried dough thing that we never knew the name of and really haven't found a recipe for. It may have been something she just made that didn't really have a name. I think of my mother in the kitchen with me when I'm baking.


We have family favorites I haven't been able to replicate exactly, either. I come close to my great grandmother's apple strudel. I think her trick was to use challa crumbs instead of cake crumbs. My grandmother's vegetarian chocolate cake seems lost. I think she used Spry and I don't use saturated fats. I do have my dad's recipe for sticky buns, though. And my daughter and I developed our recipe for challa that is different and, if I say so myself, is the best I ever tasted. I have shared it with everybody who asked for it so it doesn't disappear like Mama's chocolate cake. That was tender inside with a firm crumb and crusty around the edges. Oh, well.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> We have family favorites I haven't been able to replicate exactly, either. I come close to my great grandmother's apple strudel. I think her trick was to use challa crumbs instead of cake crumbs. My grandmother's vegetarian chocolate cake seems lost. I think she used Spry and I don't use saturated fats. I do have my dad's recipe for sticky buns, though. And my daughter and I developed our recipe for challa that is different and, if I say so myself, is the best I ever tasted. I have shared it with everybody who asked for it so it doesn't disappear like Mama's chocolate cake. That was tender inside with a firm crumb and crusty around the edges. Oh, well.


No Jewish bakery here, so I go to the Chinese bakery and buy their egg bread. It's not braided, but it sure is good!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Just heard that Robin Williams is dead, apparent suicide.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Just heard that Robin Williams is dead, apparent suicide.


Yes, somebody started a topic on this sad loss. There was a NY Times news alert that posted at 7:25 EDT.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Just heard that Robin Williams is dead, apparent suicide.


That is a shock, to say the least. One wonders what precipitates the suicides of famous people. So many of them seem to have it all, but I guess there must be something missing.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> That is a shock, to say the least. One wonders what precipitates the suicides of famous people. So many of them seem to have it all, but I guess there must be something missing.


I had read somewhere years ago that some people who suffer depression and are also quick witted become comedians in an effort to help themselves. Some also become actors because being somebody else takes them away from the person they are who suffers the agonies of depression. It appears to be a chemical imbalance. So absolutely sad.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I had read somewhere years ago that some people who suffer depression and are also quick witted become comedians in an effort to help themselves. Some also become actors because being somebody else takes them away from the person they are who suffers the agonies of depression. It appears to be a chemical imbalance. So absolutely sad.


We never know what people are suffering in their lives--even in the lives of people we know.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I had a bath today! And I like Richard Scarey books, too. And I don't know how to spell "Scarry."


I do hope that it was Lucy Loo who had the bath! She looks adorable.

My little dog was called Lucy Loo when I adopted her, but I changed her name to Meggie.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I do hope that it was Lucy Loo who had the bath! She looks adorable.
> 
> My little dog was called Lucy Loo when I adopted her, but I changed her name to Meggie.


It was Lucy who had the bath. My shower will be later! Tomorrow will be Hiro's turn. We are the third owners of Lucy. She was first named Sophia, then adopted by another party and named Lucy Loo. When we adopted her we didn't want to change her name one more time, so we kept it Lucy. Lucy has Irritable Bowel Syndrome, so people were probably thinking that they didn't want a dog with physical problems, but we love her dearly and are careful with what she eats.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I use bittersweet chocolate rather than choc chips. The bananas were in the freezer. If I have bananas that are getting overripe, I throw them in the freezer, skins and all, and when I have enough I thaw and use them for baking.


I do the same thing. I soak them in water, cut off the ends and squeeze the other end and they squeeze out into the bowl. Then I use a potato masher and mash them a bit - then add them to the batter. sooo good. I wait until I have 6- makes four good sized pans. mmmmmm! I don't add chocolates but it is a good idea. I like the dark cooking chocolate. do you cut it into pieces?? your recipe is very much like mine I made two batches each and freeze them. my recipe calls for complete eggs and one calls for the yogurt and the other doesn't.

I am going to get some yogurt and choclolate and make yours tomorrow. Pat will love them. Thanks for the recipe.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I had a bath today! And I like Richard Scarey books, too. And I don't know how to spell "Scarry."


cookiequeen
So cute. Can I have him? Our dogs never liked to take a bath. One actually went into a shaking spell when she knew that a bath was coming.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Just heard that Robin Williams is dead, apparent suicide.


Such a talent. It sounds as if he was a troubled man. So many comics seem to be troubled. I really loved his work.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I had read somewhere years ago that some people who suffer depression and are also quick witted become comedians in an effort to help themselves. Some also become actors because being somebody else takes them away from the person they are who suffers the agonies of depression. It appears to be a chemical imbalance. So absolutely sad.


MarilynKnits
I have two close friends who suffer from depression. One has episodes when the sky is dreary and the other when stress comes to her. During the periods of depression they are very difficult to deal with and they try to stay away from people as much as possible. When they are well, they are really on top of the world and the kindest people I have ever met. They have tried every remedy known to mankind and nothing eases their pain.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> That is a shock, to say the least. One wonders what precipitates the suicides of famous people. So many of them seem to have it all, but I guess there must be something missing.


BlueJay21
it is not that they are missing something, their psyche goes into a tailspin which causes a certain pain and nothing they can do gives them relief. Unfortunately their suffering can occur frequently. It is heartbreaking to see someone suffer from depression. Two of my closed friends suffer from it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> My daughter once asked about her very inventive and energetic older brother, "Does Richard ever stop thinking?" That's what I'm wondering about you. Huck!


bonbf3
my brain, as my husband calls it, is in perpetual motion and I never know what escapes from it. At times it lets me do things pretty well which I have never done before. Skills from a previous existence? Just a thought.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> That is super nice. Practical and aesthetically pleasing and ecologically green! You get a Superwoman badge.


MarilynKnits
that is so kind of you. I am trying to figure out how to make one into a holder for circular needles. See what I can come up with. I am thinking of knitting sideways to have the ridges up and down to poke the needles through. Need to empty a container first.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> BlueJay21
> it is not that they are missing something, their psyche goes into a tailspin which causes a certain pain and nothing they can do gives them relief. Unfortunately their suffering can occur frequently. It is heartbreaking to see someone suffer from depression. Two of my closed friends suffer from it.


I did not realize that he had been suffering from depression for quite a while. He apparently was recovering from taking drugs as well. He seems to have been a very troubled man. It is very sad when someone talented ends his life. He will be missed by many.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Some of you have been interested in the thread painting the way I do it. I do it manually, not on a machine that does it for me. here is a bear from beginning to end. It is a grizzle bear and is in 2 or 3 of my wall hangings.

There was a very good picture of a grisly bear in the newspaper a few years ago. I cut it out and held on to it. I got it out and printed it on muslin, placed over a stiffening. 

I lowered my feed dogs, put on my embroidery foot, and set my machine to embroidery, so that I could manipulate the thread. I had 3 or 4 browns and greys ready to sew. When I am thread painting I usually start with the lightest color and fill in the places I think that color should be. I either use a photo or one of my drawings. I use a fine zig zag - and wider zig zag on the edges of the color. Then I pick the next color and work it in when it is beside the original color using a find zigzag and a bit wider stitch on the edges so I can blend them if needed. and carry on with all the colors.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Here is one more I just found when I was sorting out. 

It is a robin (Canadian-American) and was put on a pussywillow branch- excuse the different sized pictures.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I had a bath today! And I like Richard Scarey books, too. And I don't know how to spell "Scarry."


What a cutie!


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Shirley, as always, your talent stuns me. I only wish I had 1/10 of your abilities. :-D :-D :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Work in progress. Sails are attached at bottom and top only. I picked up the stitches and knitted the sails. You could also knit them separately and then attach them. Will show again when finished.
I came upon this knitted pillow cover in a chair outside and just had to embellish it a bit.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here is one more I just found when I was sorting out.
> 
> It is a robin (Canadian-American) and was put on a pussywillow branch- excuse the different sized pictures.


Designer1234
Shirley your work is extraordinary. I love both of your creations but I fell in love with the Robin. Thank you for sharing. 
Are you familiar with the OMNI 1000 embroidery machine? It is for free hand embroidery and with different attachments you can even embroider with wide ribbon and all sorts of threads and knitting yarn.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Shirley and Huck, you are good at so many things! Your work is beautiful as well as very interesting.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Shirley your work is extraordinary. I love both of your creations but I fell in love with the Robin. Thank you for sharing.
> Are you familiar with the OMNI 1000 embroidery machine? It is for free hand embroidery and with different attachments you can even embroider with wide ribbon and all sorts of threads and knitting yarn.


I would love to have one of them. They are fantastic. I like your sailing ship. You and I could have so much fun! I am sorting out boxies of pictures and am finding some of my class work - I really like what you have done with the sail boat.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I would love to have one of them. They are fantastic. I like your sailing ship. You and I could have so much fun! I am sorting out boxies of pictures and am finding some of my class work - I really like what you have done with the sail boat.


Designer1234
Thank you. Right now I am experimenting with some flowers. Using Silk flowers and one I keep dipping into Polyurethane, let each dipping dry and dip and dip again and the other into Mod Podge. Just want to see which one will look the best when done. They both should look similar to porcelain ones.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here is one more I just found when I was sorting out.
> 
> It is a robin (Canadian-American) and was put on a pussywillow branch- excuse the different sized pictures.


Absolutely beautiful work. You not only have the skill and the trained eye you also have the patience. My old eyes just are not up to the task these days. I can admire your work though. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Shirley, as always, your talent stuns me. I only wish I had 1/10 of your abilities. :-D :-D :-D


We can admire her skills, we can enjoy her achievements. She does produces great works of artistic endeavour.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Work in progress. Sails are attached at bottom and top only. I picked up the stitches and knitted the sails. You could also knit them separately and then attach them. Will show again when finished.
> I came upon this knitted pillow cover in a chair outside and just had to embellish it a bit.


Thanks for letting us enjoy your craftsmanship, you are another talented person whose creativity I enjoying seeing.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Some of you have been interested in the thread painting the way I do it. I do it manually, not on a machine that does it for me. here is a bear from beginning to end. It is a grizzle bear and is in 2 or 3 of my wall hangings.
> 
> There was a very good picture of a grisly bear in the newspaper a few years ago. I cut it out and held on to it. I got it out and printed it on muslin, placed over a stiffening.
> 
> I lowered my feed dogs, put on my embroidery foot, and set my machine to embroidery, so that I could manipulate the thread. I had 3 or 4 browns and greys ready to sew. When I am thread painting I usually start with the lightest color and fill in the places I think that color should be. I either use a photo or one of my drawings. I use a fine zig zag - and wider zig zag on the edges of the color. Then I pick the next color and work it in when it is beside the original color using a find zigzag and a bit wider stitch on the edges so I can blend them if needed. and carry on with all the colors.


So interesting, Shirley. Nice of you to share.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Here is one more I just found when I was sorting out.
> 
> It is a robin (Canadian-American) and was put on a pussywillow branch- excuse the different sized pictures.


Beautiful! I had no idea how you did this. I'm so glad you showed us.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Work in progress. Sails are attached at bottom and top only. I picked up the stitches and knitted the sails. You could also knit them separately and then attach them. Will show again when finished.
> I came upon this knitted pillow cover in a chair outside and just had to embellish it a bit.


I thought it was already finished. Very pretty. Lovely colors and so very neat.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Thank you Shirley for giving us an insight in to how to accomplish these works of art. I have seen thread painting but have not tried it yet. "When I retire" I might give it a whirl. It takes a lot of patience I suspect and uninterrupted time. Beautiful work as always.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

I am so happy today. It is raining!! It started at about 12:40 in the night. I was just about to put my book away and put out the light when I heard the rain drops. They are most welcome. It has cooled the temperature considerably. Yesterday, my thermostat said that the outside temperature was 30.5. Way too hot for me. But today it promises to be cool, even though it is dull. And I don't have to spend an hour watering my plants. That time can be put to other more creative uses.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I am so happy today. It is raining!! It started at about 12:40 in the night. I was just about to put my book away and put out the light when I heard the rain drops. They are most welcome. It has cooled the temperature considerably. Yesterday, my thermostat said that the outside temperature was 30.5. Way too hot for me. But today it promises to be cool, even though it is dull. And I don't have to spend an hour watering my plants. That time can be put to other more creative uses.


My kind of day! I hope you enjoy every minute.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I borrowed a book from the library that is a fascinating study of creativity using color, texture, short rows, entrelac, and huge bursts of imagination.

It is called "Knit in New Directions" with Myra Wood (ISBN 1933064284 and is offered as a free download

http://bengetcom.blogspot.com/2014/03/knit-in-new-directions-journey-into.html

Shirley, you may especially enjoy this. I think it is worth looking at as inspiration even for those of us who are not that adventurous as knitters or as talented as Shirley and Huck.

While I was searching for this particular book I also found another free download "New Directions in Knitting" described as

"Get ready for some fun! Try these unusual knitting techniques for stitching sweaters. Start at one cuff and knit to the other cuff. Or start at the shoulders and knit down to the waist. Or knit diagonally from corner to corner. Or knit a cable that goes from cuff to cuff and pick up stitches to knit up and down along the cable."

at http://www.ebooks-share.net/new-directions-in-knitting/


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I borrowed a book from the library that is a fascinating study of creativity using color, texture, short rows, entrelac, and huge bursts of imagination.
> 
> It is called "Knit in New Directions" with Myra Wood (ISBN 1933064284 and is offered as a free download
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting this information, Marilyn. I don't have time right now to download, but I have bookmarked both for future reference. They do indeed look interesting.


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## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Some of you have been interested in the thread painting the way I do it. I do it manually, not on a machine that does it for me. here is a bear from beginning to end. It is a grizzle bear and is in 2 or 3 of my wall hangings.
> 
> There was a very good picture of a grisly bear in the newspaper a few years ago. I cut it out and held on to it. I got it out and printed it on muslin, placed over a stiffening.
> 
> I lowered my feed dogs, put on my embroidery foot, and set my machine to embroidery, so that I could manipulate the thread. I had 3 or 4 browns and greys ready to sew. When I am thread painting I usually start with the lightest color and fill in the places I think that color should be. I either use a photo or one of my drawings. I use a fine zig zag - and wider zig zag on the edges of the color. Then I pick the next color and work it in when it is beside the original color using a find zigzag and a bit wider stitch on the edges so I can blend them if needed. and carry on with all the colors.


very beautiful work


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


What a cutie!!!! So what time do you want me to bring my dogs over for a bath????


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> What a cutie!!!! So what time do you want me to bring my dogs over for a bath????


How big are they? I can put mine in my laundry room sink for bathing, so it's not too hard on my back. They both try to "moon walk" away from me when I put on my big red wash-the-dog apron, but once they're in the water, they don't mind it. Afterwards I wrap them in a big beach towel and we sit out in the sun to dry--both of us. Hiro (today's bathed one) has all kinds of neuroses, but bathing isn't one of them.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


And you are so cute and cuddly and ready for a hug and a treat. Does your Queen bake doggie cookies for you?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> How big are they? I can put mine in my laundry room sink for bathing, so it's not too hard on my back. They both try to "moon walk" away from me when I put on my big red wash-the-dog apron, but once they're in the water, they don't mind it. Afterwards I wrap them in a big beach towel and we sit out in the sun to dry--both of us. Hiro (today's bathed one) has all kinds of neuroses, but bathing isn't one of them.


Just 2 Shih Tzus, so not huge, 14 or so pounds and they hate bath time, gives them nightmares about the groomer I think!!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Just 2 Shih Tzus, so not huge, 14 or so pounds and they hate bath time, gives them nightmares about the groomer I think!!!!


We do our own grooming. The groomers never know how to groom a Westie anyway, so we may as well. Hiro is a poodle mix, so we just keep him clipped short. The groomers charge more for a dog than I pay for myself and then we end up not liking it.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


HAHAHAHAHAAA, I went from Shirley's description of her grizzly masterpiece to the pic of that precious doggie.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> HAHAHAHAHAAA, I went from Shirley's description of her grizzly masterpiece to the pic of that precious doggie.


by the way, my spell check has gone wild lately. Grisly with a instead of two zz's and other bad words. I am a better speller than I appear. I type too quickly and the darned words change themselves.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> by the way, my spell check has gone wild lately. Grisly with a instead of two zz's and other bad words. I am a better speller than I appear. I type too quickly and the darned words change themselves.


My iPad always does things to what I write. I got in the habit of putting in all the apostrophes on contractions and with more recent updates the apostrophes are put in for you. I end up with all kinds of crazy phrases. Like it' snot instead of it's not. And the apostrophe goes in whenever I write it's--it gets changed from a possessive to a contraction so the writer looks as though she doesn't know what she's doing. So if you see crazy looking phrases it really isn't me. At least not always!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> HAHAHAHAHAAA, I went from Shirley's description of her grizzly masterpiece to the pic of that precious doggie.


That precious doggie has some very weird behaviors. We don't know exactly what he went through before we got him, but he's very bad on a leash. He jumps up and down to go for a walk and after we've gone halfway around the block he decides he wants to go home. I've tried everything. If there's a dog behaviorist reading this, please PM me and I'll tell you the whole story.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


Sniff, sniff - yes, you do smell good!

By the way, is Mommy making cookies today?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> by the way, my spell check has gone wild lately. Grisly with a instead of two zz's and other bad words. I am a better speller than I appear. I type too quickly and the darned words change themselves.


I blame the computer - always! :mrgreen:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> by the way, my spell check has gone wild lately. Grisly with a instead of two zz's and other bad words. I am a better speller than I appear. I type too quickly and the darned words change themselves.


LOL, ask if I even noticed. My thought is that as long as we know what someone meant, and most of the time we do, what does it matter?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Sniff, sniff - yes, you do smell good!
> 
> By the way, is Mommy making cookies today?


No cookies today. No people cookies or doggie cookies. And the two little loaves of chocolate banana bread went into the freezer after my husband and I sampled it.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Had my bath today. I feel wonderful and smell good, too!


I can read your mind little doggie. Don't you dare go out and roll in the horse manure! :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> by the way, my spell check has gone wild lately. Grisly with a instead of two zz's and other bad words. I am a better speller than I appear. I type too quickly and the darned words change themselves.


Has the spell checker changed from English(UK) to English(US)? It is annoying when this happens.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I can read your mind little doggie. Don't you dare go out and roll in the horse manure! :XD: :XD: :XD:


Not much chance of horse manure around here, but he'll find something nasty to roll in!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> We do our own grooming. The groomers never know how to groom a Westie anyway, so we may as well. Hiro is a poodle mix, so we just keep him clipped short. The groomers charge more for a dog than I pay for myself and then we end up not liking it.[/quote
> 
> We had two poodles at one time. They both hated getting groomed, and it was expensive, so dh and I tried our hands at it.
> Results were not so good, lol, so we just adjusted the budget to cover the professional doggy haircuts. A session for Toby costs more than one for dh or myself and he doesn't get the usual Maltese clip. Maybe our next pup will be a Lab. I did clip the cat's nails and the birds' wings myself.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, ask if I even noticed. My thought is that as long as we know what someone meant, and most of the time we do, what does it matter?


Exact;y!!! ( SEEE?) I have a year old Imac and I am slowly gettting it under control. Another thing it does is add an extra letter. I do type fast though so that doesn't help.

I have it set for fast but then sometimes it is too fast. sheesh!!!

Good morning everyone! I got up a bit early. We are doing very well with our sorting. Kelly (my son) and my gd came over yesterday and we had a lovely visit. They will be on the way this morning and will arrive in BC on Saturday. We hopefully found an apartment there and he is going to check it out for us when he gets there. We hope to move on October lst. Pat and I have done a lot of moving over the years but not at the age we are now. I have taken 5 big bags full of yarn to the local yarn store as she has a group that knits there for charity. I was so relieved to find some place that will use it for good work. I got rid of half my yarn and I still have way too much.

I have all my yarn in 'tubs' and have sorted out my clothes. We did a 'first sort' and got rid of a lot at " Goodwill". Some charity (I hope I can find one) will get some more. I don't like to give to Good will, as I have learned on these threads that the owner is one of the Richest people in the States. It is not a charitable institution. He gets things donated to the stores, and sells it. He pays next to nothing for his store buildings and very very poor wages.We here in Calgary thought it went to Charity but it goes into his own pocket which doesn't sit too well. I will spend this afternoon looking for a group that can share with those in need.

I have passed the word around to my friends and a lot of people are also passing the word. Isn't it a shame that the name suggests that it is a collection site for those who don't have much. Irritates me a lot.

Cookie - I love your little dog. How lucky they are to have found you. Such a sweet little face.

I can't believe the things I have accumulated in my work room and I can't believe how difficult it is to let some of it go. I have some fabric that I have kept for 4 years since I stopped sewing. I have decided to take it with me as I am getting the urge to get out my sewing machine again.

I woke up a couple of hours ago (4 am). and seem to get so much more accomplished early in the morning. swimming this morning with the water exercise group then coffee. I will miss them all. Life goes on though. Back to work. I will drop by later. Shirley


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Exact;y!!! ( SEEE?) I have a year old Imac and I am slowly gettting it under control. Another thing it does is add an extra letter. I do type fast though so that doesn't help.
> 
> I have it set for fast but then sometimes it is too fast. sheesh!!!
> 
> ...


Shirley, you sound energized by this big job you have. Have a great day!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Exact;y!!! ( SEEE?) I have a year old Imac and I am slowly gettting it under control. Another thing it does is add an extra letter. I do type fast though so that doesn't help.
> 
> I have it set for fast but then sometimes it is too fast. sheesh!!!
> 
> ...


Shirley, you sound energized by this big job you have. Have a great day!


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

maysmom said:


> cookiequeen said:
> 
> 
> > We do our own grooming. The groomers never know how to groom a Westie anyway, so we may as well. Hiro is a poodle mix, so we just keep him clipped short. The groomers charge more for a dog than I pay for myself and then we end up not liking it.[/quote
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I promised to show "crazy" and here it is. Oh what a great feeling it is to make something so "way out". May seldom or never be worn but on a dare I do just about anything. The single rows going up and down I crochet. I may polyurethane it and make it a Garden Statue. Certainly one like no other. May keep the Owl from eating our Rabbits.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Here a few more ideas. ANYBODY can do this. I did a big pillow for the floor in off white, used it like that for a while and suddenly I felt like doing something with it. So I used various stitches going any-which-way and so it went. 
Next is a test piece and after it was done I released some stitches and let them run all the way down and then wove some light yarn through the "ladders". I like the reverse side best.
The two scarves were knitted sideways (knit stitch on both sides). When I knit sideways I cast-on 120 to 140 stitches and knit on circular needles. Fine yarn I may double or triple up or even combine different colors. A scarf is done in no time, particularly when the yarn is bulky. The scarves look nicest when yarns of different types are being used incl. Ribbon. Wonderful way to use leftovers even starting a different color in the middle of a row. No rules make them look most interesting. If you have some metallic yarn, let that run alongside any color now and then. Could even knit in pearls or whatever. Try to have fun and follow no rules.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

2nd set = test piece and scarves


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> I promised to show "crazy" and here it is. Oh what a great feeling it is to make something so "way out". May seldom or never be worn but on a dare I do just about anything. The single rows going up and down I crochet. I may polyurethane it and make it a Garden Statue. Certainly one like no other. May keep the Owl from eating our Rabbits.


Don't do that. I'd wear it in a heartbeat. It's lovely. No, lovely is not strong enough. Great, terrific, colourful, exciting, etc. I love colourful things.

I have just finished (actually it is not quite finished. I still want to line it and put a hood on it) a coat from a book called "Knits from the North Country: Classic Knits by Canadian Knitters." The coat is called "Second City Coat." It is a composition of colourful houses done in Intarsia. When I saw the pattern, I just had to have it. I doubt if I will ever tackle such a job again, but it was an experience. I am looking forward to wearing it this winter.

If I know how I would post a picture.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> Don't do that. I'd wear it in a heartbeat. It's lovely. No, lovely is not strong enough. Great, terrific, colourful, exciting, etc. I love colourful things.
> 
> I have just finished (actually it is not quite finished. I still want to line it and put a hood on it) a coat from a book called "Knits from the North Country: Classic Knits by Canadian Knitters." The coat is called "Second City Coat." It is a composition of colourful houses done in Intarsia. When I saw the pattern, I just had to have it. I doubt if I will ever tackle such a job again, but it was an experience. I am looking forward to wearing it this winter.
> 
> If I know how I would post a picture.


BlueJay21
Oh please, please, please, have someone show you how to post a picture. It is very simple. Your creation sounds lovely. I love everything Canadian. If you have no-one around to show you and you have a Library close by, go there and have them show you how to do it. They are so helpful.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

If you know how to post a picture on an email. send me a pm with your email address or I will send you mine. then email me a picture and I will be happy to post it for you!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> I promised to show "crazy" and here it is. Oh what a great feeling it is to make something so "way out". May seldom or never be worn but on a dare I do just about anything. The single rows going up and down I crochet. I may polyurethane it and make it a Garden Statue. Certainly one like no other. May keep the Owl from eating our Rabbits.


I adore it. Will you sell it to me? What size Huckle?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I adore it. Will you sell it to me? What size Huckle?


SQM
You are so kind. Thank you. If I ever think of selling it, I will tell you first. It is LARGE. It is a conversation piece and I have put it on (at home) even though I disappear in it and stuffed the sleeves, I looked like I was ready for take off. I could easily put on regular size sleeves but for now it will remain looking "different". I often start on something not knowing what it is supposed to become and this is one of those pieces. As you can see, I went in many directions.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Have a great Thursday everyone


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am trying to think of something neutral in my life to share. My email from KP is drying up. 

I guess most of my life is in neutral. Boring!


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am trying to think of something neutral in my life to share. My email from KP is drying up.
> 
> I guess most of my life is in neutral. Boring!


We all go through times like that. When I think of it, I don't think I would like my life to be constantly "on the edge." It is so nice to have something unexpected happen, and if "unexpected" things happened all the time, I think it would be most distressing. Just relax. There are not many highlights in my life, so I really enjoy the ones that occur. The most interesting thing in my life recently was when I thought my little dog was sick. She was off her food and didn't even come for treats. Very worrying. However, it was delightful to see her eat up all her breakfast yesterday and come for her bit of cheese (I have a cheese sandwich for lunch and the doggies always get a bit of cheese).

How is your book coming along? Perhaps you could tell us about that. Sometimes things happen and we think they are not worth mentioning to others. I am sure there will be something to relate soon.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Blue Jay

My co-author and I are finishing up the Instructor's Manual.

I think the publisher will be putting out the entire text for review one more time and we may need to make adjustments. It has been a 2 year project and I am sick of it.

What is anyone else doing unusual in her life?


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thanks Blue Jay
> 
> My co-author and I are finishing up the Instructor's Manual.
> 
> ...


Hi, SQM. I can understand how you would be sick of the book. Sometimes we are really gung-ho when we begin things, and then they begin to pall as they proceed. My bedroom is a bit like that. When we moved into this house my bedroom was a ghastly shade of orangy-pink. We have been here three years. I finally decided how I wanted it. It has been a long, long process and I can't wait to have it finished. It didn't seem so daunting when I began, and I really like painting, but it has been in the works for so long that I just can't wait to get it finished and start something new.

I admire you for being able to write a text book. Years ago I considered writing a book on English Grammar, but after a while, that went by the wayside. I figured there are more brilliant and learned people out there who could do a better job.

Someone once said to me that I had "imposter syndrome." I think they are right. I often feel I should not be doing what I am doing as there are better people to do the job. But so far I have muddled through and will keep on going, being real or being an imposter.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am trying to think of something neutral in my life to share. My email from KP is drying up.
> 
> I guess most of my life is in neutral. Boring!


We were just talking about osteoporosis on Denim. 
Maybe you want to talk about that?

Or how about Fall? It's my favorite season - cool and crisp - school starts - new beginnings -bugs go away (or come inside!).

How about favorite memories of school? Favorite teachers?

??????

We like to talk about the fiber arts. How about music? Does it touch your soul? Does anyone play a musical instrument? How long did you take lessons? How long did you practice every day?


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> BlueJay21
> Oh please, please, please, have someone show you how to post a picture. It is very simple. Your creation sounds lovely. I love everything Canadian. If you have no-one around to show you and you have a Library close by, go there and have them show you how to do it. They are so helpful.


Hi, guys. I'll figure it out. If I can get hold of my son (not easy to do as he lives a bit away and works just about seven days a week) maybe he can show me. It will be awhile, though. I decided to put a hood on the coat but have not had much luck with a pattern. I have tried two and didn't like either. I have decided that I have to create my own pattern. To that end I printed off some knitters graph paper and will try my hand at creating a pattern. Once the coat is wearable, I will try to post a picture.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes bonnie Bonnie I will talk about my osteoporosis here. I have had 3 rounds of Reclast and it has worked for my spine but not for my hips. What have others done?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes bonnie Bonnie I will talk about my osteoporosis here. I have had 3 rounds of Reclast and it has worked for my spine but not for my hips. What have others done?


I'm glad it worked for your spine. I haven't taken anything yet. I asked the doctor if I could try weights and walking. He said okay, but he was very indifferent. He has a good rep, but I wasn't too impressed. I'll see how he is next time.

I haven't been able to keep up with my plan due to husband's surgery, family trips, etc. I don't have any family history of osteoporosis, and I'm taking calcium and mega Vit. D. I hope that will help it. Need another bone density - now, actually. Should have done it in May.

Do you take calcium and Vit. D, SQM? Have you broken any bones? I broke my collar bone, but it didn't count because it was a traumatic fracture (I fell down a slight incline and it went pop - didn't even hurt when I did it) instead of an osteoporitic fracture. I think the latter is like what my MIL had - she moved a table and her wrist broke.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Hi, guys. I'll figure it out. If I can get hold of my son (not easy to do as he lives a bit away and works just about seven days a week) maybe he can show me. It will be awhile, though. I decided to put a hood on the coat but have not had much luck with a pattern. I have tried two and didn't like either. I have decided that I have to create my own pattern. To that end I printed off some knitters graph paper and will try my hand at creating a pattern. Once the coat is wearable, I will try to post a picture.


Do you have a library with a decent reference department, a photography club, or a computer club in your area? If so, perhaps you can find a good soul who will walk you through the process.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad it worked for your spine. I haven't taken anything yet. I asked the doctor if I could try weights and walking. He said okay, but he was very indifferent. He has a good rep, but I wasn't too impressed. I'll see how he is next time.
> 
> I haven't been able to keep up with my plan due to husband's surgery, family trips, etc. I don't have any family history of osteoporosis, and I'm taking calcium and mega Vit. D. I hope that will help it. Need another bone density - now, actually. Should have done it in May.
> 
> Do you take calcium and Vit. D, SQM? Have you broken any bones? I broke my collar bone, but it didn't count because it was a traumatic fracture (I fell down a slight incline and it went pop - didn't even hurt when I did it) instead of an osteoporitic fracture. I think the latter is like what my MIL had - she moved a table and her wrist broke.


May I be so bold as to join the osteoporosis discussion?

I take Vit. D. My doctor told me it is safe to take up to 6000 units a day, but I have stayed at about 3000 and I take 1200 units of calcium. I had a hip replacement and the orthopedic surgeon told me I have good bone density, so I shall stay with what I have been doing. I also exercise regularly.

With some of the osteoporosis medications, you have to do your research because they harden the outer structure of the bone but the inside is still porous, so you sort of have egg shell bones. I had read of people just walking whose femurs snap and they drop like a rock. They had been taking meds but the inside parts of the bones did not firm up.

I think it also helps to have a diet rich in dark green veggies.

I am not a doctor and don't pretend to have reliable medical knowledge, but experience and observation have led me to these conclusions.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have an off topic question, has anyone ever purchased Knit Picks yarn and how good or bad was it?
Thanks


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad it worked for your spine. I haven't taken anything yet. I asked the doctor if I could try weights and walking. He said okay, but he was very indifferent. He has a good rep, but I wasn't too impressed. I'll see how he is next time.
> 
> I haven't been able to keep up with my plan due to husband's surgery, family trips, etc. I don't have any family history of osteoporosis, and I'm taking calcium and mega Vit. D. I hope that will help it. Need another bone density - now, actually. Should have done it in May.
> 
> Do you take calcium and Vit. D, SQM? Have you broken any bones? I broke my collar bone, but it didn't count because it was a traumatic fracture (I fell down a slight incline and it went pop - didn't even hurt when I did it) instead of an osteoporitic fracture. I think the latter is like what my MIL had - she moved a table and her wrist broke.


Vitamin D yes but no to calcium because too much floods my blood stream. I get enough thru food. My osteo dr. was surprised I had not broken anything. But why should I? It seems like a great nuisance.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> Vitamin D yes but no to calcium because too much floods my blood stream. I get enough thru food. My osteo dr. was surprised I had not broken anything. But why should I? It seems like a great nuisance.


I can imagine it is a terrible nuisance to break anything. I take calcium and VitD as well as a mulitivite. I am hoping that my bones will last another 10 to 20 years without breaking. I also walk quite quickly for 45 minutes each day, except Saturday and Sunday when my husband walks the dogs.

The only bones that seem to be affected by arthritis are those in my fingers. The pointer on my right hand is quite swollen and I can not close it. The pointer on my left hand is beginning to swell too. I expect that over time all my fingers will become gnarled. But so long as I can do what I want to do, I am not going to worry.

All we can do is eat properly, exercise, and take the necessary supplements. Let's just keep on keeping on.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> I can imagine it is a terrible nuisance to break anything. I take calcium and VitD as well as a mulitivite. I am hoping that my bones will last another 10 to 20 years without breaking. I also walk quite quickly for 45 minutes each day, except Saturday and Sunday when my husband walks the dogs.
> 
> The only bones that seem to be affected by arthritis are those in my fingers. The pointer on my right hand is quite swollen and I can not close it. The pointer on my left hand is beginning to swell too. I expect that over time all my fingers will become gnarled. But so long as I can do what I want to do, I am not going to worry.
> 
> All we can do is eat properly, exercise, and take the necessary supplements. Let's just keep on keeping on.


Eat properly, exercise, take supplements and die anyway.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I have an off topic question, has anyone ever purchased Knit Picks yarn and how good or bad was it?
> Thanks


I have used their yarn. I have used their palette yarn in my last two sky scarves. I have also used their cotton yarn in a couple of dishcloths. I have some chroma but haven't used it yet.

I find it fine and they offer great service.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I can imagine it is a terrible nuisance to break anything. I take calcium and VitD as well as a mulitivite. I am hoping that my bones will last another 10 to 20 years without breaking. I also walk quite quickly for 45 minutes each day, except Saturday and Sunday when my husband walks the dogs.
> 
> The only bones that seem to be affected by arthritis are those in my fingers. The pointer on my right hand is quite swollen and I can not close it. The pointer on my left hand is beginning to swell too. I expect that over time all my fingers will become gnarled. But so long as I can do what I want to do, I am not going to worry.
> 
> All we can do is eat properly, exercise, and take the necessary supplements. Let's just keep on keeping on.


That's right.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I can imagine it is a terrible nuisance to break anything. I take calcium and VitD as well as a mulitivite. I am hoping that my bones will last another 10 to 20 years without breaking. I also walk quite quickly for 45 minutes each day, except Saturday and Sunday when my husband walks the dogs.
> 
> The only bones that seem to be affected by arthritis are those in my fingers. The pointer on my right hand is quite swollen and I can not close it. The pointer on my left hand is beginning to swell too. I expect that over time all my fingers will become gnarled. But so long as I can do what I want to do, I am not going to worry.
> 
> All we can do is eat properly, exercise, and take the necessary supplements. Let's just keep on keeping on.


I do some hand exercises. There are a number of them on line. A set I do where I use a 2# weight, but you can start with 1#. Sit on a kitchen chair and bring your feet up to the toes. Hold the weights palm down and rest your forearms on your thighs. Let your hand relax down then move your wrist to lift it as high as it will go. Repeat 10 times then as you get stronger up to 20. Next, turn your hands so the palms are up and bend your hand so the weight rolls down your finger, grasp so it doesn't fall and bend the wrist so it is up as high as you can reach. Same reps. Last one sitting with the weights, rotate your hands from down to up and back.

After you are done, stretch your fingers forward and back and flex your hands. As they get stronger, they also get more limber. I also put my hands together like praying hands then lift my elbows to stretch them. This one helps loosen the upper back too.

My senior center has chair exercises for strengthening, and these are among the things we do.

A trick I learned is to put the thumb of one hand on the little lump on the palm just above the finger joint and massage it, and flex and bend the finger as you press and massage. I do it for a few seconds with each finger when my hands are warm after doing dishes. This one has helped me with trigger finger.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I have used their yarn. I have used their palette yarn in my last two sky scarves. I have also used their cotton yarn in a couple of dishcloths. I have some chroma but haven't used it yet.
> 
> I find it fine and they offer great service.


Thank you. I just received a catalog from them. I don't know why, but the yarn looks so much prettier in the catalog than online. The prices seem to be reasonable, too.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Eat properly, exercise, take supplements and die anyway.


After all the "anti-supplement" stuff came out, I quit taking calcium. I get what I think I need from food, and I exercise 5 days a week---strength training and walking.
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/thinking-twice-about-calcium-supplements-2/


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> After all the "anti-supplement" stuff came out, I quit taking calcium. I get what I think I need from food, and I exercise 5 days a week---strength training and walking.
> http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/08/thinking-twice-about-calcium-supplements-2/


That's very good. That was my plan, but life interfered. I couldn't find time back in the winter, but I've followed the same regimen off and on for a long time. I will say my weights were only 3#. Some of those exercises actually feel good. Do you enjoy your walking?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

You sound like Old Ladies. I picture you as teens.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> That's very good. That was my plan, but life interfered. I couldn't find time back in the winter, but I've followed the same regimen off and on for a long time. I will say my weights were only 3#. Some of those exercises actually feel good. Do you enjoy your walking?


I walk on the treadmill three days a week either listening to music or talking to a friend. Talking makes the time go by really fast! I like walking there because I can increase my pace and elevation, and walking around where we live is pretty flat. After that I use the weight machines and do all the different areas of my body. All this is followed by stretching.
The other two days I walk around where we live with Lucy. She's great on the leash and loves to go. I've quit trying to walk Hiro because it's too frustrating because he always wants to go home. I walk all year 'round unless it's really pouring rain. And we haven't had a good rain for a long time!
I kept the same plan for myself while I worked, too. I just had to shuffle my schedule around. You have to be self-disciplined to stick to it, but I tell myself that it's what keeps the cancer away.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> You sound like Old Ladies. I picture you as teens.


Well, I AM an old lady!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I walk on the treadmill three days a week either listening to music or talking to a friend. Talking makes the time go by really fast! I like walking there because I can increase my pace and elevation, and walking around where we live is pretty flat. After that I use the weight machines and do all the different areas of my body. All this is followed by stretching.
> The other two days I walk around where we live with Lucy. She's great on the leash and loves to go. I've quit trying to walk Hiro because it's too frustrating because he always wants to go home. I walk all year 'round unless it's really pouring rain. And we haven't had a good rain for a long time!
> I kept the same plan for myself while I worked, too. I just had to shuffle my schedule around. You have to be self-disciplined to stick to it, but I tell myself that it's what keeps the cancer away.


Good for you! I'd love to walk outside more. I'm actually having a hard time with my routine ever since last Fall. That's when we got really busy with outside things. I used to walk at 7:00 every morning in the summer. It was great! And you know you're doing something good for yourself. Hats off to you!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Well, I AM an old lady!


I don't see you like that at all. I picture Amelia Earhart.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I don't see you like that at all. I picture Amelia Earhart.


You should see our "old farts" group at the gym. Ever since I retired I go to the gym at 7 a.m. We're all retired people from every different ethnicity and work background. Sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've met some wonderful people there who have become part of my after-retirement social group. The knitting group I started is made up of people I've met at the gym. It's a great bunch of people. Naturally, we lose people along the way---people move away and some have died along the way. There are several well into their 80's, so we've gone to a few funerals. I joined this gym at age 50 to get myself in shape after chemo, and it was one of the best things I've done for myself.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> You should see our "old farts" group at the gym. Ever since I retired I go to the gym at 7 a.m. We're all retired people from every different ethnicity and work background. Sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've met some wonderful people there who have become part of my after-retirement social group. The knitting group I started is made up of people I've met at the gym. It's a great bunch of people. Naturally, we lose people along the way---people move away and some have died along the way. There are several well into their 80's, so we've gone to a few funerals. I joined this gym at age 50 to get myself in shape after chemo, and it was one of the best things I've done for myself.


I somehow imagine that you were always a jock-type.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I somehow imagine that you were always a jock-type.


Wrong! Not a jock at all!
Just trying to stay healthy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You should see our "old farts" group at the gym. Ever since I retired I go to the gym at 7 a.m. We're all retired people from every different ethnicity and work background. Sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've met some wonderful people there who have become part of my after-retirement social group. The knitting group I started is made up of people I've met at the gym. It's a great bunch of people. Naturally, we lose people along the way---people move away and some have died along the way. There are several well into their 80's, so we've gone to a few funerals. I joined this gym at age 50 to get myself in shape after chemo, and it was one of the best things I've done for myself.


Sounds nice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I somehow imagine that you were always a jock-type.


She is! She goes to the gym every day! At 7 a.m.! She's a mult-talented, knitting, cookie-baking jock! Oops - I left out royal. :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> You should see our "old farts" group at the gym. Ever since I retired I go to the gym at 7 a.m. We're all retired people from every different ethnicity and work background. Sometimes we get together for lunch or dinner. I've met some wonderful people there who have become part of my after-retirement social group. The knitting group I started is made up of people I've met at the gym. It's a great bunch of people. Naturally, we lose people along the way---people move away and some have died along the way. There are several well into their 80's, so we've gone to a few funerals. I joined this gym at age 50 to get myself in shape after chemo, and it was one of the best things I've done for myself.


cookiequeen
I admire your "stick-to-it-ness".


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> She is! She goes to the gym every day! At 7 a.m.! She's a mult-talented, knitting, cookie-baking jock! Oops - I left out royal. :-D


Non, non. Trois fois par semaine


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Non, non. Trois fois par semaine


Oh, three times a week. What was I thinking? Quel boo-boo!

(Finally I get to use those four years of French!!) :wink:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> She is! She goes to the gym every day! At 7 a.m.! She's a mult-talented, knitting, cookie-baking jock! Oops - I left out royal. :-D


And I consider myself an average knitter and baker. And NOT Royal. I do all these things for my own sanity. I would love to be gadding about the country or world, but my husband is not in the best of health. We all make the best of things and do what we can.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And I consider myself an average knitter and baker. And NOT Royal. I do all these things for my own sanity. I would love to be gadding about the country or world, but my husband is not in the best of health. We all make the best of things and do what we can.


I'm in a similar situation, so I have fun in my own little part of the world.

One of my daughters runs 4 miles almost every day. She says it's for her sanity. With five little ones ten and under, she certainly needs SOMETHING for her sanity. :shock:

Where does the French come from? Are you French, cookie? Or maybe Canadian? Or did you take it in school like I did? I don't mean to be nosy, but I loved French. Although I've forgotten most of what I learned, it's always fun to see it written.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm in a similar situation, so I have fun in my own little part of the world.
> 
> One of my daughters runs 4 miles almost every day. She says it's for her sanity. With five little ones ten and under, she certainly needs SOMETHING for her sanity. :shock:
> 
> Where does the French come from? Are you French, cookie? Or maybe Canadian? Or did you take it in school like I did? I don't mean to be nosy, but I loved French. Although I've forgotten most of what I learned, it's always fun to see it written.


I've forgotten most of it. I lived in a very small town in Minnesota, and we had no language offered in high school. I took 4 yrs of h.s. French jammed into two years in college. Years later my husband's job took us to Paris, and when I arrived all I could say was "au revoir," "merci," ce tout." We were there for 2.5 yrs, so I had to learn how to conduct my everyday life in French---including the birth of our son! He's now 45, so ce longtemps que j'ai parle Francais. I don't know where all the accents and cedilla are on this keyboard. I had a fairly good conversational French but it's all but gone now.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitting time, ladies and gents (if there are any)
Latergators


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

I've just come back from grocery shopping. The health food store I shop at gives a 5% discount to seniors on Thursdays, so I try to get my shopping done there on a Thursday. Today, my husband was with me. I was so pleased when the young man at the check out asked, "Do either of you qualify for the discount?" My husband is 64 (not quite eligible) but I am 72. It made my day. I guess I don't look as old as I feel.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I've forgotten most of it. I lived in a very small town in Minnesota, and we had no language offered in high school. I took 4 yrs of h.s. French jammed into two years in college. Years later my husband's job took us to Paris, and when I arrived all I could say was "au revoir," "merci," ce tout." We were there for 2.5 yrs, so I had to learn how to conduct my everyday life in French---including the birth of our son! He's now 45, so ce longtemps que j'ai parle Francais. I don't know where all the accents and cedilla are on this keyboard. I had a fairly good conversational French but it's all but gone now.


What a wonderful experience! I see you remember, too! I'll bet you did have good conversational French. I can't understand French spoken by a native at all - too fast for me! I two wonderful French teachers and I enjoyed every minute of it. I wish I could think of something to say. It's almost midnight in my town, so how's this:

Bon soir, dors bien. 

Please feel free to correct me if I goofed.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> I've just come back from grocery shopping. The health food store I shop at gives a 5% discount to seniors on Thursdays, so I try to get my shopping done there on a Thursday. Today, my husband was with me. I was so pleased when the young man at the check out asked, "Do either of you qualify for the discount?" My husband is 64 (not quite eligible) but I am 72. It made my day. I guess I don't look as old as I feel.


How inspirational that you married a younger man. Hot Lady.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Way to go, Bluejay21!


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## Georgiegirl (Jan 22, 2013)

My Dad was French Canadian. He spoke fluent French, but said he had a hard time understanding a "Frenchman"' & I think the language problem worked both ways with a "Frenchie" understanding my Dad.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> My Dad was French Canadian. He spoke fluent French, but said he had a hard time understanding a "Frenchman"' & I think the language problem worked both ways with a "Frenchie" understanding my Dad.


How about you, GG? Do you speak French, too?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Georgiegirl said:


> My Dad was French Canadian. He spoke fluent French, but said he had a hard time understanding a "Frenchman"' & I think the language problem worked both ways with a "Frenchie" understanding my Dad.


Parisian French was very hard for me to understand. When we went to the south of France I understood the people really well. Their speech was much slower and melodic---to me, at least. When I first heard the people in Paris say something that sounded like "shay-pa" accompanied by a shoulder shrug it finally dawned on me that they were saying "je n'est sais pas." Duh!! Eventually, I got pretty good, and some people were easier to understand than others---just like people speaking English!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Knitting time, ladies and gents (if there are any)
> Latergators


cookiequeen
see how obedient I have been? I knitted.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Parisian French was very hard for me to understand. When we went to the south of France I understood the people really well. Their speech was much slower and melodic---to me, at least. When I first heard the people in Paris say something that sounded like "shay-pa" accompanied by a shoulder shrug it finally dawned on me that they were saying "je n'est sais pas." Duh!! Eventually, I got pretty good, and some people were easier to understand than others---just like people speaking English!


Yes - just like us. We slur and skip words and talk fast. We leave the g off the ing, and have words like read that mean two different things.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Bonjour. On the subject of French. I had several years of French in high school and really liked it. I did one year at university, but didn't do too well and was not allowed to take another year. However, the smattering of French came in handy when we were in Quebec and other French-speaking parts of eastern Canada. I can't speak it well, but I can read it reasonably well. I have some tutorial books that I should get down from the shelf and go through to see how much I can achieve.

I wanted to learn Russian. Don't ask me why. I was taking a night school class but got really sick and had to discontinue. I wasn't too keen on the teacher, so I didn't go back. I sometimes think my middle name should be Procrastinator. I have so many things that I have started and not finished. Anyone else out there like that?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> Bonjour. On the subject of French. I had several years of French in high school and really liked it. I did one year at university, but didn't do too well and was not allowed to take another year. However, the smattering of French came in handy when we were in Quebec and other French-speaking parts of eastern Canada. I can't speak it well, but I can read it reasonably well. I have some tutorial books that I should get down from the shelf and go through to see how much I can achieve.
> 
> I wanted to learn Russian. Don't ask me why. I was taking a night school class but got really sick and had to discontinue. I wasn't too keen on the teacher, so I didn't go back. I sometimes think my middle name should be Procrastinator. I have so many things that I have started and not finished. Anyone else out there like that?


Sloths never finish much. And Blue Jays are flighty so it all makes sense.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> see how obedient I have been? I knitted.


Can't even imagine why that is necessary or how it can be sanitary. Your machine stitching is great, so maybe a real gentleman would prefer a dignified lap blanket, or a pair of warm slippers.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Good for you! I'd love to walk outside more. I'm actually having a hard time with my routine ever since last Fall. That's when we got really busy with outside things. I used to walk at 7:00 every morning in the summer. It was great! And you know you're doing something good for yourself. Hats off to you!!


When I tell new friends that I spin, they ask me what type of bike I ride. I feign shock and fainting while saying "You think I meant exercising?"


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> I have an off topic question, has anyone ever purchased Knit Picks yarn and how good or bad was it?
> Thanks


I am obsessed with knit picks yarn. My favorite is the shine in worsted and sport (cotton viscose blend), the CotLin dk is great and I love the gloss (woo silk blend, lace, fingering and dk). Oh, and I'm crazy about their curio cotton crochet thread. I haven't gotten a chance to work with all of the different lines, but I have used quite a few. Their colors are absolutely AMAZING!! I only used knit picks for my wedding flowers and cords, except the crochet thread bc at the time I couldn't use size 10 so I had to settle with aunt Lydia's size 3.

Basically in my experience, you can't go wrong with any of their yarn (or most of their tools for that matter). The best part about knit picks, though, is their customer service. They will do anything in their power to make you happy. They also have some amazing sales. That's when I have gotten most of my yarn.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Bonjour. On the subject of French. I had several years of French in high school and really liked it. I did one year at university, but didn't do too well and was not allowed to take another year. However, the smattering of French came in handy when we were in Quebec and other French-speaking parts of eastern Canada. I can't speak it well, but I can read it reasonably well. I have some tutorial books that I should get down from the shelf and go through to see how much I can achieve.
> 
> I wanted to learn Russian. Don't ask me why. I was taking a night school class but got really sick and had to discontinue. I wasn't too keen on the teacher, so I didn't go back. I sometimes think my middle name should be Procrastinator. I have so many things that I have started and not finished. Anyone else out there like that?


Yes. I've wanted to learn Spanish - just wanted to, didn't DO it. That would be too extreme. :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> When I tell new friends that I spin, they ask me what type of bike I ride. I feign shock and fainting while saying "You think I meant exercising?"


I should hope not! :mrgreen:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I am obsessed with knit picks yarn. My favorite is the shine in worsted and sport (cotton viscose blend), the CotLin dk is great and I love the gloss (woo silk blend, lace, fingering and dk). Oh, and I'm crazy about their curio cotton crochet thread. I haven't gotten a chance to work with all of the different lines, but I have used quite a few. Their colors are absolutely AMAZING!! I only used knit picks for my wedding flowers and cords, except the crochet thread bc at the time I couldn't use size 10 so I had to settle with aunt Lydia's size 3.
> 
> Basically in my experience, you can't go wrong with any of their yarn (or most of their tools for that matter). The best part about knit picks, though, is their customer service. They will do anything in their power to make you happy. They also have some amazing sales. That's when I have gotten most of my yarn.


That's a glowing testimonial! You are obviously a satisfied customer.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knit Picks is okay. I do like their interchangeable needles.

I prefer Paradise Fibers, Webs, and other independent shops. But for afghans they are great, and they are consistent.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I am obsessed with knit picks yarn. My favorite is the shine in worsted and sport (cotton viscose blend), the CotLin dk is great and I love the gloss (woo silk blend, lace, fingering and dk). Oh, and I'm crazy about their curio cotton crochet thread. I haven't gotten a chance to work with all of the different lines, but I have used quite a few. Their colors are absolutely AMAZING!! I only used knit picks for my wedding flowers and cords, except the crochet thread bc at the time I couldn't use size 10 so I had to settle with aunt Lydia's size 3.
> 
> Basically in my experience, you can't go wrong with any of their yarn (or most of their tools for that matter). The best part about knit picks, though, is their customer service. They will do anything in their power to make you happy. They also have some amazing sales. That's when I have gotten most of my yarn.


Where have you been, My Child?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> When I tell new friends that I spin, they ask me what type of bike I ride. I feign shock and fainting while saying "You think I meant exercising?"


 :lol:


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes. I've wanted to learn Spanish - just wanted to, didn't DO it. That would be too extreme. :lol: :lol:


It is comforting to know that I am not alone. What would we have achieved but for woulda, coulda, shoulda?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Bonnie is such a nice person on both sides of the fence.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone! Have been pretty busy. It looks like we will be moving a bit further north on the Island. l/2 an hour north of the kids.It isn't confirmed yet but looking good. We have gotten a lot packed and things are falling in to place.

Lots to do. We have pitched about 20 bags of stuff we don't want and likely would never use. Also have taken half of my yarn to the local yarn store to give to a knitting group who knits for charity. We have a charity group picking up some furniture we don't want to take. 

We are looking forward to moving to a warmer winter, much like Seattle from the sounds of things.

I haven't been on line all day and likely won't be on much the next while. Our son and family arrived out there today. Take care everyone. I will be dropping around when I can. 

We still have lots of time we will be leaving in about 5 weeks.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! Have been pretty busy. It looks like we will be moving a bit further north on the Island. l/2 an hour north of the kids.It isn't confirmed yet but looking good. We have gotten a lot packed and things are falling in to place.
> 
> Lots to do. We have pitched about 20 bags of stuff we don't want and likely would never use. Also have taken half of my yarn to the local yarn store to give to a knitting group who knits for charity. We have a charity group picking up some furniture we don't want to take.
> 
> ...


You may find the winters cold but they are certainly not so long as they are in Alberta. Usually, by the end of February the winter is over, not always though. Enjoy your move and I hope that you find nice digs wherever you fetch up.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Back to the French. I signed a petition regarding the deplorable conditions in which mink, foxes, and other animals are being kept at a fur farm in Quebec. As you probably know, Quebec is French-speaking. I got an automatic reply to my signature in French. I managed to decipher it sufficiently to understand that my letter will be passed to the appropriate people. It must be over 40 years ago now that I had any tuition in French, so some of it has stayed put. Education is never wasted, eh?


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> Bonnie is such a nice person on both sides of the fence.


I have to totally agree with you. We should all have been as fortunate as her students to have a leader such as she.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> I have to totally agree with you. We should all have been as fortunate as her students to have a leader such as she.


I don't know what Bonnie does for work. What level does she teach and what subject?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Where have you been, My Child?


I have been so busy, mama sloth. Sorry I havent been in the canopy in a while, I missed you all. I get on when I can to check and respond to PMs, and try to visit the threads. My eyes still aren't at their best, so I have to preserve my eyesight.

I have been studying my knitting textbooks (when I can) and worked on some projects. I am having the darndest time trying to get the right gauge and decide on a cast on/off method. I want this blanket to be meore then perfect. It is for the eye doctor who saved my vision. He had his first baby a few months ago, and I thought it would be really special to make her something she can always have to remind her how much her father touched people's lives. I'm glad he had a baby, bc otherwise I didn't know what to make him that his wife could also enjoy, that didn't take as long as a full on blanket. Crisis averted! Lol! Apparently the baby already loves the flowers I had crocheted him as a very small thank you on one of my visits, and so when I saw the pattern for a blanket with flowers, it spoke to me and I knew that was the blanket I was meant to do.

Granny has also needed a little more attention this week than she had in the previous ones, so I have been busier than normal in that aspect.

Even though I haven't responded, I saw the last few pages. It sounds like you all are doing fine, especially Shirley. I'm so happy for you that you are getting so much done and that you may have decided on a place! A half hour is not that bad. I grew up 45 minutes from one set of grandparents. We saw them often enough and it gave us an excuse to have sleepovers at their house. And people drive more than that to get to work everyday, so just think: it's much closer than Alberta!

For osteoporosis-calcium and vitamin D of course. I have also heard what marylinknits (I think) said about the pills. Try Pilates. It is a series of stretching and strengthening excersizes designed to keep you centered, elongated, toned, and healthy. With something called a Pilates circle/sculpting circle/magic circle, you work all your muscles, not just your core. How this helps bones is that movement strengthens bones. A lot of toning and strengthening excersizes might be bad for people who suffer from osteoporosis, but Pilates is very low impact and uses balance more than anything to strengthen and stretch. There is only the slightest pressure put on your bones, but enough to strengthen them. Pilates are largely done from a mat and laying down or sitting up. So if you have especially bad joints then you will really benefit from them. The thing is, you are balancing from your core, so you still get a great workout even from being close to the ground. Pilates were designed for dancers who were injured to stay in shape and stretched so as soon as they were healed they could continue dancing. You do not need to be able to dance to do these, nor do you have to have any prior knowledge. But you will FEEL as long and graceful as a dancer. 
There are various levels and they are all beneficial. There are also different groups of excersizes that focus on different areas. I use Windsor Pilates which are DVDs that came with one of the circles. They are amazing and you would be suprised at the energy you have. They also take almost no time and you only have to do them a few days a week. I have better posture than I ever have before without even needing to think about it. I can't tell you how much it has helped my back bc of strengthens the muscles and straightening my spine. They also work really fast. You see results very quickly. I'm telling you, they are one of the best things I've done for myself next to getting married and getting off pharmas.

I miss you all and have been thinking about you. One of these days I'll be back more often. Good luck!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> That's a glowing testimonial! You are obviously a satisfied customer.


Oh, I am! And my gp taught me to be a very loyal customer. Well, they have earned it. They always treat me like I am very valued. Plus, their prices are really good compared to what I have seen elsewhere.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

lovethelake said:


> Knit Picks is okay. I do like their interchangeable needles.
> 
> I prefer Paradise Fibers, Webs, and other independent shops. But for afghans they are great, and they are consistent.


I love my options nickel plated interchangeables from knitpicks. They are my go-to for lace knitting. I love how they sing and talk to me.

I have recently made my first yarn purchase from WEBS. Before, I got knitters pride crochet hooks. Well, this time I needed some interchangeables in sizes that the options didn't come in (The tips for knitters pride and knit picks are interchangeable with each other's cords and I have the knitter pride symphonie dreamz), so this time I decided to get some yarn as well since they were having their summer sale. The prices were still not great compared to knit picks, but they had the yarn a pattern I want to do called for and some in a fiber content I was curious to work with in a weight I needed for other patterns. Unfortunately, something has happened with one order that it says it was delivered but I don't have it, but another came today so I am anxious to try the cotton/microfiber blend for a poncho I will make for my sis. The post office is investigating what happened, and I know somehow it will get sorted out, but I want to start the hat and fingerless mitts I got the other yarn for!

Is fiber content important to you? What's your favorite?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> I have to totally agree with you. We should all have been as fortunate as her students to have a leader such as she.


Hear! Hear!

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Can't even imagine why that is necessary or how it can be sanitary. Your machine stitching is great, so maybe a real gentleman would prefer a dignified lap blanket, or a pair of warm slippers.


lovethelake
who said it is being used? No humor in your house I guess. So sad.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> It is comforting to know that I am not alone. What would we have achieved but for woulda, coulda, shoulda?


I think there are a lot of us wandering around out there. :wink:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Bonnie is such a nice person on both sides of the fence.


I could say the same about you, SQM!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Back to the French. I signed a petition regarding the deplorable conditions in which mink, foxes, and other animals are being kept at a fur farm in Quebec. As you probably know, Quebec is French-speaking. I got an automatic reply to my signature in French. I managed to decipher it sufficiently to understand that my letter will be passed to the appropriate people. It must be over 40 years ago now that I had any tuition in French, so some of it has stayed put. Education is never wasted, eh?


Mais oui!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I don't know what Bonnie does for work. What level does she teach and what subject?


Too much credit to me. I can't take it.

I was a parapro (assistant teacher ) in a Special Ed class for children with emotional and behavior problems, then a parapro in Kindergarten. Then I taught first grade for 5 years. Then I retired. Now I try to teach my grandkids. Sometimes they let me! :lol:

Right now, I have a granddaughter in Kindergarten and a grandson in first grade -both ripe for the picking!! :-D


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I have been so busy, mama sloth. Sorry I havent been in the canopy in a while, I missed you all. I get on when I can to check and respond to PMs, and try to visit the threads. My eyes still aren't at their best, so I have to preserve my eyesight.
> 
> I have been studying my knitting textbooks (when I can) and worked on some projects. I am having the darndest time trying to get the right gauge and decide on a cast on/off method. I want this blanket to be meore then perfect. It is for the eye doctor who saved my vision. He had his first baby a few months ago, and I thought it would be really special to make her something she can always have to remind her how much her father touched people's lives. I'm glad he had a baby, bc otherwise I didn't know what to make him that his wife could also enjoy, that didn't take as long as a full on blanket. Crisis averted! Lol! Apparently the baby already loves the flowers I had crocheted him as a very small thank you on one of my visits, and so when I saw the pattern for a blanket with flowers, it spoke to me and I knew that was the blanket I was meant to do.
> 
> ...


Good to hear from you. You have been busy! My daughter did Pilates - loved it. I think the core exercises are so important. I never knew I had a core until I heard about the exercises and realized how weak mine was. They do help with posture - thank goodness!

Keep up the good work. Nice gifts for your eye doctor!

By the way, for those with osteoporosis, I heard either from my doctor or from reading that if you have it in your spine, you should not do exercises that twist at the waist or bend over, like touching your toes. There are little knobs or something on the vertebrae that can be broken. Ick! Apparently arching the back is fine. Odd because bending to touch toes sometimes feels so good on your back - I liked twisting at the waist and stretching those muscles - but I sure don't do it any more. I want to keep my knobs!!


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> Some of you have been interested in the thread painting the way I do it. I do it manually, not on a machine that does it for me. here is a bear from beginning to end. It is a grizzle bear and is in 2 or 3 of my wall hangings.
> 
> There was a very good picture of a grisly bear in the newspaper a few years ago. I cut it out and held on to it. I got it out and printed it on muslin, placed over a stiffening.
> 
> I lowered my feed dogs, put on my embroidery foot, and set my machine to embroidery, so that I could manipulate the thread. I had 3 or 4 browns and greys ready to sew. When I am thread painting I usually start with the lightest color and fill in the places I think that color should be. I either use a photo or one of my drawings. I use a fine zig zag - and wider zig zag on the edges of the color. Then I pick the next color and work it in when it is beside the original color using a find zigzag and a bit wider stitch on the edges so I can blend them if needed. and carry on with all the colors.


Designer...this is beautiful. Is there a book that will walk me through the process??


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake
just a question, you said "....a real gentleman would prefer......." and pee on the slippers? How sanitary is that?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Good to hear from you. You have been busy! My daughter did Pilates - loved it. I think the core exercises are so important. I never knew I had a core until I heard about the exercises and realized how weak mine was. They do help with posture - thank goodness!
> 
> Keep up the good work. Nice gifts for your eye doctor!
> 
> By the way, for those with osteoporosis, I heard either from my doctor or from reading that if you have it in your spine, you should not do exercises that twist at the waist or bend over, like touching your toes. There are little knobs or something on the vertebrae that can be broken. Ick! Apparently arching the back is fine. Odd because bending to touch toes sometimes feels so good on your back - I liked twisting at the waist and stretching those muscles - but I sure don't do it any more. I want to keep my knobs!!


I rather keep my knockers instead of my knobs.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I rather keep my knockers instead of my knobs.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love your knitting. Tell me about it. Thanks for sharing.



Huckleberry said:


> cookiequeen
> see how obedient I have been? I knitted.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As for procrastination, I'm better than I used to be now that I can set my own priorities. Sounds like you've accomplished interesting things.



BlueJay21 said:


> Bonjour. On the subject of French. I had several years of French in high school and really liked it. I did one year at university, but didn't do too well and was not allowed to take another year. However, the smattering of French came in handy when we were in Quebec and other French-speaking parts of eastern Canada. I can't speak it well, but I can read it reasonably well. I have some tutorial books that I should get down from the shelf and go through to see how much I can achieve.
> 
> I wanted to learn Russian. Don't ask me why. I was taking a night school class but got really sick and had to discontinue. I wasn't too keen on the teacher, so I didn't go back. I sometimes think my middle name should be Procrastinator. I have so many things that I have started and not finished. Anyone else out there like that?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have the Spanish Rosetta Stone on my bookshelf waiting for my husband ( a great member of the Procrastinator's Club.)



bonbf3 said:


> Yes. I've wanted to learn Spanish - just wanted to, didn't DO it. That would be too extreme. :lol: :lol:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you just got an A on that paper. Good for you.



BlueJay21 said:


> Back to the French. I signed a petition regarding the deplorable conditions in which mink, foxes, and other animals are being kept at a fur farm in Quebec. As you probably know, Quebec is French-speaking. I got an automatic reply to my signature in French. I managed to decipher it sufficiently to understand that my letter will be passed to the appropriate people. It must be over 40 years ago now that I had any tuition in French, so some of it has stayed put. Education is never wasted, eh?


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

SQM said:


> I don't know what Bonnie does for work. What level does she teach and what subject?


Bonnie is a retired teacher.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I love your knitting. Tell me about it. Thanks for sharing.


damemary
well you see, we have a pay toilet, every time we use it we deposit 5 cents into the very appropriate collection Jar. The Jar even gets dressed for special occasions. Amazing how elegant an evening at the Ritz we have on New Years Eve.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what I thought it was. I knew you'd have an amusing answer waiting!



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> well you see, we have a pay toilet, every time we use it we deposit 5 cents into the very appropriate collection Jar. The Jar even gets dressed for special occasions. Amazing how elegant an evening at the Ritz we have on New Years Eve.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> That's what I thought it was. I knew you'd have an amusing answer waiting!


damemary
what is life without some humor. Wish I could transplant some to the Stiffs around here.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> what is life without some humor. Wish I could transplant some to the Stiffs around here.


Well, you got me! When I saw it I was ROFLMAO! I DID however,think that just PERHAPS, you should consider sticking with haute couture for Barbie??? Ahahahahahaha!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> well you see, we have a pay toilet, every time we use it we deposit 5 cents into the very appropriate collection Jar. The Jar even gets dressed for special occasions. Amazing how elegant an evening at the Ritz we have on New Years Eve.


You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


Did you read the rest of the comment? They use the money for a night out on the town. To each his own.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Did you read the rest of the comment? They use the money for a night out on the town. To each his own.


I think she was kidding.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I think she was kidding.


Hi Bon -- and everyone! We have been really getting a lot done. I have thrown stuff out that I have hung onto for years. We only have the bathrooms kitchen and my desk to do. All the drawers are cleaned out and meds organized and a lot of the paper work is ready to go. We are pretty organized as we have moved so many times over the years. We are doing a bit at a time. We have boxes all ready, closed and marked and ready to be picked up. My yarn is all sorted and in tubs. We are likely going to get bored waiting to go .

We hope to go the last week in September. so it will be 4 or 5 weeks. It will be some time after Sept. l8 as Pat has to have his pacemaker checked and we will then be able to go sometime the following week. Our kids all arrived.

Hi Knitter - how are you doing? I hope things are going well for you. I am glad to see you here. This is the only Political thread I am visiting so I was wondering how you were doing.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi Bon -- and everyone! We have been really getting a lot done. I have thrown stuff out that I have hung onto for years. We only have the bathrooms kitchen and my desk to do. All the drawers are cleaned out and meds organized and a lot of the paper work is ready to go. We are pretty organized as we have moved so many times over the years. We are doing a bit at a time. We have boxes all ready, closed and marked and ready to be picked up. My yarn is all sorted and in tubs. We are likely going to get bored waiting to go .
> 
> We hope to go the last week in September. so it will be 4 or 5 weeks. It will be some time after Sept. l8 as Pat has to have his pacemaker checked and we will then be able to go sometime the following week. Our kids all arrived.
> 
> Hi Knitter - how are you doing? I hope things are going well for you. I am glad to see you here. This is the only Political thread I am visiting so I was wondering how you were doing.


I'm glad your kids are there! You certainly are organized. Maybe we need a workshop on that, Shirley! :thumbup:

I've been painting two rockers for two Grandkids. One purple, one orange. Almost finished - then have to add the finishing touches. I'm not much of a painter, but they likes the others I did, so I'll try not to fret.

Carry on, Shirley!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work. 

The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6. 

The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Talk about micro managing and "doh" instructions. D just opened a new toothbrush, a Colgate. On the handle is printed:
"use the fuzzy end".


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


There were pay toilets in some NYC subway stations years ago. A quarter in the slot and the door would open.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work.
> 
> The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6.
> 
> The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


Beautiful work, we all enjoy seeing your creations. Just the thing to welcome us awake in the morning on a beautiful sunny Sunday morning. Yes, it is already 9.12 am on Sunday. Good luck with the packing, I hate packing. Moved too many times. Have a garage sale for anything you really do not want. Do you have garage sales over there or are they an Aussie thing?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Talk about micro managing and "doh" instructions. D just opened a new toothbrush, a Colgate. On the handle is printed:
> "use the fuzzy end".


Oh, maybe that is where I have been going wrong all these years. Nobody ever told me that before. Why has nobody ever given me the correct information before this day. And to think I have been trying to brush my teeth with the other end. Maybe a lot of people have the same problem as I do. But you have to laugh, you would go insane if you didn't laugh.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There were pay toilets in some NYC subway stations years ago. A quarter in the slot and the door would open.


Either NYC subway had expensive toilets or I am older than I think, but I distinctly remember it was only a penny you had to put in the slot. Remember the saying "got to spend a penny"? But I like the idea of charging to use the dunny at home, only problem is that if I tried that everyone would choose to use the farmer's toilet. Yes, we live on a large block with neighbour's house a way away so they would not know.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


lovethelake
what is sad about putting in a few pennies to enjoy a fabulous evening at the Ritz? You may want to try it. No, come to think of it, better remain in your cabin at the Lake, your sour attitude may spoil someone's fun.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, you got me! When I saw it I was ROFLMAO! I DID however,think that just PERHAPS, you should consider sticking with haute couture for Barbie??? Ahahahahahaha!


Knitter from Nebraska
I am happy that you have a sense of humor.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Talk about micro managing and "doh" instructions. D just opened a new toothbrush, a Colgate. On the handle is printed:
> "use the fuzzy end".


Made in China?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There were pay toilets in some NYC subway stations years ago. A quarter in the slot and the door would open.


Some department stores had "pay" stalls, too.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think she was kidding.


bonbf3
Hallelujah, you got it. I'll do anything to keep laughter around the house. Have a friend who owns a popular Pub, he would like to use it as a tipping Jar. Now there is a unique use. I thought of using it as a button Jug.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh, maybe that is where I have been going wrong all these years. Nobody ever told me that before. Why has nobody ever given me the correct information before this day. And to think I have been trying to brush my teeth with the other end. Maybe a lot of people have the same problem as I do. But you have to laugh, you would go insane if you didn't laugh.


EveMCooke
yes, laughter keeps us going and the wrinkles away.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work.
> 
> The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6.
> 
> The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


Designer1234
beautiful creations. Hope you remain well and keep on crafting. I enjoy your talent over and over again.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

A little splash of color on one of my office Chair. Love to lighten up my work space. Yes, yes, they are new Toilet Seat Covers and perfect fits. As I said before, I don't see things for what they are but what they could be. Now you start being inventive.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Ooooops, missed the picture


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> A little splash of color on one of my office Chair. Love to lighten up my work space. Yes, yes, they are new Toilet Seat Covers and perfect fits. As I said before, I don't see things for what they are but what they could be. Now you start being inventive.


And why not? Looks good to me!
This isn't THAT inventive, but I used to use the bidet in our apartment in France to wash things out---like socks or, things washed by hand, etc.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Ooooops, missed the picture


This is brilliant. My computer chair is looking tired. I will cover it like you did.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> And why not? Looks good to me!
> This isn't THAT inventive, but I used to use the bidet in our apartment in France to wash things out---like socks or, things washed by hand, etc.


cookiequeen
wonderful extended use for a Bidet.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad your kids are there! You certainly are organized. Maybe we need a workshop on that, Shirley! :thumbup:
> 
> I've been painting two rockers for two Grandkids. One purple, one orange. Almost finished - then have to add the finishing touches. I'm not much of a painter, but they liked the others I did, so I'll try not to fret.
> 
> Carry on, Shirley!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work.
> 
> The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6.
> 
> The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


So pretty. I love the little people. I heard about Ted De Grazias when we lived in Tucson.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Talk about micro managing and "doh" instructions. D just opened a new toothbrush, a Colgate. On the handle is printed:
> "use the fuzzy end".


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> There were pay toilets in some NYC subway stations years ago. A quarter in the slot and the door would open.


I remember, but I thought they got rid of all pay toilets.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Beautiful work, we all enjoy seeing your creations. Just the thing to welcome us awake in the morning on a beautiful sunny Sunday morning. Yes, it is already 9.12 am on Sunday. Good luck with the packing, I hate packing. Moved too many times. Have a garage sale for anything you really do not want. Do you have garage sales over there or are they an Aussie thing?


We have them in the U.S.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh, maybe that is where I have been going wrong all these years. Nobody ever told me that before. Why has nobody ever given me the correct information before this day. And to think I have been trying to brush my teeth with the other end. Maybe a lot of people have the same problem as I do. But you have to laugh, you would go insane if you didn't laugh.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> You may find the winters cold but they are certainly not so long as they are in Alberta. Usually, by the end of February the winter is over, not always though. Enjoy your move and I hope that you find nice digs wherever you fetch up.


We lived on Dunbar Street Vancouver for 9 years. I loved it there.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> Hallelujah, you got it. I'll do anything to keep laughter around the house. Have a friend who owns a popular Pub, he would like to use it as a tipping Jar. Now there is a unique use. I thought of using it as a button Jug.


You could put all manner of things in there. Hershey kisses come to mind immediately.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And why not? Looks good to me!
> This isn't THAT inventive, but I used to use the bidet in our apartment in France to wash things out---like socks or, things washed by hand, etc.


 Phooey - I had a funny bidet story, but i can't remember the details. "Middle" age - I do love it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And why not? Looks good to me!
> This isn't THAT inventive, but I used to use the bidet in our apartment in France to wash things out---like socks or, things washed by hand, etc.


Good idea!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Ooooops, missed the picture


Pretty colors. In the picture, they look like hats to me.

Oh, my gosh! The jokes on me! On my computer, the picture is sideways. I looked again to see how it was a picture of a chair. I thought the door knob was a hanging hook, and they were hanging up. Like hats. BIG hats!

I have a new toothbrush - now where are the instructions? :roll: :lol:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> what is sad about putting in a few pennies to enjoy a fabulous evening at the Ritz? You may want to try it. No, come to think of it, better remain in your cabin at the Lake, your sour attitude may spoil someone's fun.


Huck, it is best if we leave that all on WOW?

How about posting some more of your wonderful work? I am so impressed at your attitude toward designing and originating ideas in crafts of all time. I understand where you are coming from - Wish we lived closer.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> So pretty. I love the little people. I heard about Ted De Grazias when we lived in Tucson.


I loved everything he did.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi Bon -- and everyone! We have been really getting a lot done. I have thrown stuff out that I have hung onto for years. We only have the bathrooms kitchen and my desk to do. All the drawers are cleaned out and meds organized and a lot of the paper work is ready to go. We are pretty organized as we have moved so many times over the years. We are doing a bit at a time. We have boxes all ready, closed and marked and ready to be picked up. My yarn is all sorted and in tubs. We are likely going to get bored waiting to go .
> 
> We hope to go the last week in September. so it will be 4 or 5 weeks. It will be some time after Sept. l8 as Pat has to have his pacemaker checked and we will then be able to go sometime the following week. Our kids all arrived.
> 
> Hi Knitter - how are you doing? I hope things are going well for you. I am glad to see you here. This is the only Political thread I am visiting so I was wondering how you were doing.


Hi, Shirley! I'm happy to hear that things are going well. I'm also happy to hear that you'll be moving closer to family. That's great! It's good that you'll be bored instead of racing around to get things done. I read that you got your test results and that all is well. Things are really going your way right now. You deserve it. I hope things stay that way!

One of my grandsons turns three tomorrow. They had his birthday party tonight. It was so fun to get together with everyone. My dh's birthday is Tuesday so we'll be having his party next week. I love family get togethers! The kids are so fun. Anyway, I've been staying very busy. I'm knitting slippers for Christmas. And I'm harvesting and preserving the food from my garden. Ttyl!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work.
> 
> The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6.
> 
> The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


Awesome, Shirley! Your works are wonderful! Such talent!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I appreciate your humor. Bring it on.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> what is life without some humor. Wish I could transplant some to the Stiffs around here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would count it as a joke.



lovethelake said:


> You have to pay to go to the bathroom? That is really sad. I would have hoped that your facility would have provided that. Never heard of such a thing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They have enough money to treat all to a most elegant night on the town. I think Huck is just funnin us.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Did you read the rest of the comment? They use the money for a night out on the town. To each his own.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I think she was kidding.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So glad to hear your move is underway. I envy your organization. hugs



Designer1234 said:


> Hi Bon -- and everyone! We have been really getting a lot done. I have thrown stuff out that I have hung onto for years. We only have the bathrooms kitchen and my desk to do. All the drawers are cleaned out and meds organized and a lot of the paper work is ready to go. We are pretty organized as we have moved so many times over the years. We are doing a bit at a time. We have boxes all ready, closed and marked and ready to be picked up. My yarn is all sorted and in tubs. We are likely going to get bored waiting to go .
> 
> We hope to go the last week in September. so it will be 4 or 5 weeks. It will be some time after Sept. l8 as Pat has to have his pacemaker checked and we will then be able to go sometime the following week. Our kids all arrived.
> 
> Hi Knitter - how are you doing? I hope things are going well for you. I am glad to see you here. This is the only Political thread I am visiting so I was wondering how you were doing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love your work. It's beautiful. Thanks for sharing.



Designer1234 said:


> Here are a couple of my pictures. One is a plastic canvas (small stitches) of the little people I used to do in Arizona. I loved Ted De Grazias work - he was a famous Arizona artist and I fell in love with his work.
> 
> The other two are watercolor. I do cards for family -in groups of 6.
> 
> The last was 'Autumn leaves" watercolor and pen. I love doing this type of picture as you use water washes and let the paint spread on its own.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Talk about micro managing and "doh" instructions. D just opened a new toothbrush, a Colgate. On the handle is printed:
> "use the fuzzy end".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: No thinking required, I guess.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Oh, maybe that is where I have been going wrong all these years. Nobody ever told me that before. Why has nobody ever given me the correct information before this day. And to think I have been trying to brush my teeth with the other end. Maybe a lot of people have the same problem as I do. But you have to laugh, you would go insane if you didn't laugh.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Pretty colors. In the picture, they look like hats to me.
> 
> Oh, my gosh! The jokes on me! On my computer, the picture is sideways. I looked again to see how it was a picture of a chair. I thought the door knob was a hanging hook, and they were hanging up. Like hats. BIG hats!
> 
> I have a new toothbrush - now where are the instructions? :roll: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Huck, it is best if we leave that all on WOW?
> 
> How about posting some more of your wonderful work? I am so impressed at your attitude toward designing and originating ideas in crafts of all time. I understand where you are coming from - Wish we lived closer.


Designer1234
I shall.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, Shirley! I'm happy to hear that things are going well. I'm also happy to hear that you'll be moving closer to family. That's great! It's good that you'll be bored instead of racing around to get things done. I read that you got your test results and that all is well. Things are really going your way right now. You deserve it. I hope things stay that way!
> 
> One of my grandsons turns three tomorrow. They had his birthday party tonight. It was so fun to get together with everyone. My dh's birthday is Tuesday so we'll be having his party next week. I love family get togethers! The kids are so fun. Anyway, I've been staying very busy. I'm knitting slippers for Christmas. And I'm harvesting and preserving the food from my garden. Ttyl!


Three years old - such a cute age! Happy birthday to both of them.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Here three Pendants/Brooches:
one made from a sample of Formica from Lowe's onto which I put silk flowers which I polyurethaned 
one made from an Oyster Shell from a Chinese Buffet and embellished it with a little flower pot and flowers and 
one made from half of a Mango Seed onto which I glued un-popped Popcorn and layered Glass Paint. The edges are wrapped in Copper Foil. Instead of Polyurethane one could use Paint Glaze or Mod Podge.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Here three Pendants/Brooches:
> one made from a sample of Formica from Lowe's onto which I put silk flowers which I polyurethaned
> one made from an Oyster Shell from a Chinese Buffet and embellished it with a little flower pot and flowers and
> one made from half of a Mango Seed onto which I glued un-popped Popcorn and layered Glass Paint. The edges are wrapped in Copper Foil. Instead of Polyurethane one could use Paint Glaze or Mod Podge.


beautiful! All one of a kind. Great work. I bet you could sell them Huck.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Found a close-up of the one with popcorn kernels.

Each piece can be used as a Brooch and I like to attach them to a scarf.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Huckle,

That last pendant is great. It looks like mosaic.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Found a close-up of the one with popcorn kernels.
> 
> Each piece can be used as a Brooch and I like to attach them to a scarf.


That is awesome, Huck! Love the texture and colors.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huck, 

Your pendants are truly unique and very pretty - eye-catching!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like your creations better than gold and precious stones.



Huckleberry said:


> Found a close-up of the one with popcorn kernels.
> 
> Each piece can be used as a Brooch and I like to attach them to a scarf.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Huck,
> 
> Your pendants are truly unique and very pretty - eye-catching!


Hi Bonnie! Long time no see.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Patty! Missed you. How's mini you?



BrattyPatty said:


> That is awesome, Huck! Love the texture and colors.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Made in China?


Nope. Made in Switzerland. Tells us what the Swiss think of the intelligence of English speaking people, perhaps. D doesn't want toothbrushes made in China. The ones my dentist gives out which are made in China have uneven bristles and they cut his gums. I just bought new ones, GUM brand, made in USA, which I consider a great find. That will be for the next time he changes brushes.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Some department stores had "pay" stalls, too.


Saks Fifth had an attendant to hand you warm towels in the ladies room on the floor with better dresses. Of course you left a tip. The stalls were deeper than in any of the other stores and had a drop shelf where you could put your parcels and purse.

When I was in college, one of my friends seemed to know where to find every nice ladies room from 57th Street south. I think she could have led a guided tour.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I remember, but I thought they got rid of all pay toilets.


We rarely go in to the City any more, so I wouldn't know what is happening now. The last times we went were only to the Javits for the boat show, and we haven't been to that since before my hip replacement. D has trouble with all the walking, Penn Station to the Javits, around the exhibits, then back. It was fun while it lasted. Personally, I liked it better at the old Coliseum, much more convenient to get to for us.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Here three Pendants/Brooches:
> one made from a sample of Formica from Lowe's onto which I put silk flowers which I polyurethaned
> one made from an Oyster Shell from a Chinese Buffet and embellished it with a little flower pot and flowers and
> one made from half of a Mango Seed onto which I glued un-popped Popcorn and layered Glass Paint. The edges are wrapped in Copper Foil. Instead of Polyurethane one could use Paint Glaze or Mod Podge.


Love your beautiful, creative jewelry work. Probably the polyurethane will hold up better than the other options.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Saks Fifth had an attendant to hand you warm towels in the ladies room on the floor with better dresses. Of course you left a tip. The stalls were deeper than in any of the other stores and had a drop shelf where you could put your parcels and purse.
> 
> When I was in college, one of my friends seemed to know where to find every nice ladies room from 57th Street south. I think she could have led a guided tour.


My ex/late husband was just too mean to spend a penny so when we went shopping in the big smoke and had to go he devised a plan. We would go into one of the high rise block of offices and take the lift to the 10th floor or higher and use the staff toilets there. He said that they do not lock the doors on the staff toilets on the higher floors. I admit the doors to the staff toilets were unlocked higher but I just could not feel comfortable when doing this. I expected a hand on my shoulder and a stern voice asking me what the heck I thought I was doing. Son also developed a phobia about going when he was a child as a result of this. He just could not go when we were out, he had to hold it until we were home. As a result he could not go to the school toilets either and would hold it until he came home. He would make a mad dash straight to the throne room when he arrived home.

I just hate public toilets today, they are not cleaned. People drop toilet paper on the floor, do not flush and often miss the china altogether. There is often no toilet paper and the hook on the back of the door where one should hang their handbag and coat is often missing. Plus, with the Pink Lady thingie, or what ever it is called, jammed beside the throne there is just not enough room for comfort for the more well endowed ladies. Yes, you will recognise me when I go shopping. I am the well endowed lady who is walking with crossed legs and a very pained expression on her face.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hi Patty! Missed you. How's mini you?


I just sent you an email with a picture of us on her 2nd birthday. Poor baby wasn't feeling too good. She had Strep. But she is getting better every day.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My ex/late husband was just too mean to spend a penny so when we went shopping in the big smoke and had to go he devised a plan. We would go into one of the high rise block of offices and take the lift to the 10th floor or higher and use the staff toilets there. He said that they do not lock the doors on the staff toilets on the higher floors. I admit the doors to the staff toilets were unlocked higher but I just could not feel comfortable when doing this. I expected a hand on my shoulder and a stern voice asking me what the heck I thought I was doing. Son also developed a phobia about going when he was a child as a result of this. He just could not go when we were out, he had to hold it until we were home. As a result he could not go to the school toilets either and would hold it until he came home. He would make a mad dash straight to the throne room when he arrived home.
> 
> I just hate public toilets today, they are not cleaned. People drop toilet paper on the floor, do not flush and often miss the china altogether. There is often no toilet paper and the hook on the back of the door where one should hang their handbag and coat is often missing. Plus, with the Pink Lady thingie, or what ever it is called, jammed beside the throne there is just not enough room for comfort for the more well endowed ladies. Yes, you will recognise me when I go shopping. I am the well endowed lady who is walking with crossed legs and a very pained expression on her face.


I am with you, Eve. I hate public restrooms.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Bonnie! Long time no see.


Hi, Patty! How are you?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My ex/late husband was just too mean to spend a penny so when we went shopping in the big smoke and had to go he devised a plan. We would go into one of the high rise block of offices and take the lift to the 10th floor or higher and use the staff toilets there. He said that they do not lock the doors on the staff toilets on the higher floors. I admit the doors to the staff toilets were unlocked higher but I just could not feel comfortable when doing this. I expected a hand on my shoulder and a stern voice asking me what the heck I thought I was doing. Son also developed a phobia about going when he was a child as a result of this. He just could not go when we were out, he had to hold it until we were home. As a result he could not go to the school toilets either and would hold it until he came home. He would make a mad dash straight to the throne room when he arrived home.
> 
> I just hate public toilets today, they are not cleaned. People drop toilet paper on the floor, do not flush and often miss the china altogether. There is often no toilet paper and the hook on the back of the door where one should hang their handbag and coat is often missing. Plus, with the Pink Lady thingie, or what ever it is called, jammed beside the throne there is just not enough room for comfort for the more well endowed ladies. Yes, you will recognise me when I go shopping. I am the well endowed lady who is walking with crossed legs and a very pained expression on her face.


 :lol: :lol: 
I hate them, too. It's even worse if you're taking a child or grandchild. Not clean enough. That's the worst part of traveling.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I just sent you an email with a picture of us on her 2nd birthday. Poor baby wasn't feeling too good. She had Strep. But she is getting better every day.


A 2-year old with strep. Poor baby.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> what is sad about putting in a few pennies to enjoy a fabulous evening at the Ritz? You may want to try it. No, come to think of it, better remain in your cabin at the Lake, your sour attitude may spoil someone's fun.


I was serious, I was truly saddened by the thought of having to pay to go to the bathroom, especially seniors that have to go often. It could get very expensive and that may be a problem for some. Or someone with limited finger mobility might have difficulty paying. And I hope you wash the money when your count it, shudder. You did not have to get nasty, especially on this thread, when I expressed concern. Maybe a swear jar would work, or a jar to put your loose change in to collect money.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Under Lakes post I have an ad for Touchless - a gizmo for the toilet. I loved the remark about washing the money when you count it. Made me laugh.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Under Lakes post I have an ad for Touchless - a gizmo for the toilet. I loved the remark about washing the money when you count it. Made me laugh.


A number of toll booth collectors I have seen wear disposable gloves. One of our librarians does too. I keep a couple of pair in my purse in the event that I don't want to touch something I must touch. I think they are healthier than using the antibacterial hand cleaners. I don't want those chemicals absorbed into my skin.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> A number of toll booth collectors I have seen wear disposable gloves. One of our librarians does too. I keep a couple of pair in my purse in the event that I don't want to touch something I must touch. I think they are healthier than using the antibacterial hand cleaners. I don't want those chemicals absorbed into my skin.


Interesting. Very interesting. What do you have to touch that you don't want to touch?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> A number of toll booth collectors I have seen wear disposable gloves. One of our librarians does too. I keep a couple of pair in my purse in the event that I don't want to touch something I must touch. I think they are healthier than using the antibacterial hand cleaners. I don't want those chemicals absorbed into my skin.


That's a good idea! I'll have to put some in my purse.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Interesting. Very interesting. What do you have to touch that you don't want to touch?


I've seen several people use a "wipe" on the carts at the grocery store - on the handles. Not a bad idea.

I tell myself that I just shouldn't EAT while I'm away from home! (I keep wipes in my car for just that purpose. And now you know my dirty little secret - I eat in my car.  ) I'm probably the only adult driver with m&m's dropped on the floor of her car.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> A number of toll booth collectors I have seen wear disposable gloves. One of our librarians does too. I keep a couple of pair in my purse in the event that I don't want to touch something I must touch. I think they are healthier than using the antibacterial hand cleaners. I don't want those chemicals absorbed into my skin.


I am a borderline germophobe! I hadn't thought of that one. Thanks! I always carry a cloth handkerchief for those restrooms with hand dryers but no paper towels. It comes in handy for many things.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I was serious, I was truly saddened by the thought of having to pay to go to the bathroom, especially seniors that have to go often. It could get very expensive and that may be a problem for some. Or someone with limited finger mobility might have difficulty paying. And I hope you wash the money when your count it, shudder. You did not have to get nasty, especially on this thread, when I expressed concern. Maybe a swear jar would work, or a jar to put your loose change in to collect money.


lovethelake
I put up the Jar as the joke when I gave a Luncheon and it became a real fun piece for conversations (some even borrowed it for their gatherings). What are you talking about seniors and having to pay? How many folks do you think are living in my Home? It is only my whippersnapper husband and I and we are faithfully filling the Jar and live it up on New Years Eve. It doubles the fun. 
By the way, we DO NOT SWEAR and never have and also have a Hand Sanitizer - well decorated with a family Crest - in each Bathroom. Try some fun around your house. 
Lovethelake, I apologize if I stepped on you. It is just very difficult for me to understand prudishness since my thoughts are always on a relaxed plateau. Come on and climb on the roof with me to pee on those walking by JUST KIDDING, JUST KIDDING!!!! it would take a rainbow to reach them, we are too far from the street. 
Please relax now, all is meant in fun.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I am a germophobe. Remember pay telephones. I used to think that people were nuts who used to put hankies on the receiver. I could not even imagine using one now.

In public bathrooms I am totally nuts. Won't touch anything with my hands. Will use my cuffs, scarf ends, skirt hems, etc. A nurse told me that the dirtiest part of a public bathroom is the faucet so I use a paper towel to turn the water on and off. It there is no paper towel I use my elbow.

I am happy in those bathrooms that work everything by sensors. Now if only the door would open automatically.

Someone else taught me to dry my hands on my hair if there a no paper towels. Remember the linen roll of towel in the old days?

This topic is funnnnnnny.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I've seen several people use a "wipe" on the carts at the grocery store - on the handles. Not a bad idea.
> 
> I tell myself that I just shouldn't EAT while I'm away from home! (I keep wipes in my car for just that purpose. And now you know my dirty little secret - I eat in my car.  ) I'm probably the only adult driver with m&m's dropped on the floor of her car.


No you're not!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am a germophobe. Remember pay telephones. I used to think that people were nuts who used to put hankies on the receiver. I could not even imagine using one now.
> 
> In public bathrooms I am totally nuts. Won't touch anything with my hands. Will use my cuffs, scarf ends, skirt hems, etc. A nurse told me that the dirtiest part of a public bathroom is the faucet so I use a paper towel to turn the water on and off. It there is no paper towel I use my elbow.
> 
> ...


LOL! And what's with restroom doors that open IN? You have to touch it and pull to open it. What about the people who didn't wash their hands? Paper towels or my hankie, for sure!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> LOL! And what's with restroom doors that open IN? You have to touch it and pull to open it. What about the people who didn't wash their hands? Paper towels or my hankie, for sure!


Use an article of clothing over my hand to open the door.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

We never leave the house without handy wipes. If we run out of the packaged ones, I put others into a zip lock bag.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> LOL! And what's with restroom doors that open IN? You have to touch it and pull to open it. What about the people who didn't wash their hands? Paper towels or my hankie, for sure!


The folks at our Barnes & Noble are smart. They have a waste basket positioned so you can use a paper towel to open the door to leave and drop it in on your way out.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I've seen several people use a "wipe" on the carts at the grocery store - on the handles. Not a bad idea.
> 
> I tell myself that I just shouldn't EAT while I'm away from home! (I keep wipes in my car for just that purpose. And now you know my dirty little secret - I eat in my car.  ) I'm probably the only adult driver with m&m's dropped on the floor of her car.


bonbf3
in our grocery stores they have a stand with handy wipes where they park the shopping carts. Wonderful idea.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> The folks at our Barnes & Noble are smart. They have a waste basket positioned so you can use a paper towel to open the door to leave and drop it in on your way out.


That is always appreciated by me. But I have been known to dunk it from across the bathroom if the waste basket is too far from the door.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Under Lakes post I have an ad for Touchless - a gizmo for the toilet. I loved the remark about washing the money when you count it. Made me laugh.


SQM
looks like I got a lively conversation going once again with my collection Jar.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Under Lakes post I have an ad for Touchless - a gizmo for the toilet. I loved the remark about washing the money when you count it. Made me laugh.


Oh, I launder money regularly. D forgets to empty his pockets before the pants go in the wash. I don't do it for him; he is a big enough boy to do that kind of stuff for himself. And I keep the change when I empty the washer and dryer.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckle - Your collection Jar - I did not recognize it at first. I thought it was a Brita. So maybe Mrs. Gifts was right to imply I am a know-nothing idiot.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Huckle - Your collection Jar - I did not recognize it at first. I thought it was a Brita. So maybe Mrs. Gifts was right to imply I am a no-nothing idiot.


No, SQ, you are not a know nothing idiot.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, SQ, you are not a know nothing idiot.


Thanks Brat.

While your flowers are gorgeous, promise me when you get tired of it, you will put up a new Brat avatar.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> A 2-year old with strep. Poor baby.


I felt so bad for her. Usually when her dad picks her up after work she puts up a fuss, but last time there were huge crocodile tears to go with it. Her other grandma took her to a church picnic where she played with countless toddlers and kids. We think she may have picked up there. Her mom has it too. Her birthday party well.She had the antibiotic in her for 3 days.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Use an article of clothing over my hand to open the door.


Yuk! Just think of what's now on your clothing. Ewwww!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> We never leave the house without handy wipes. If we run out of the packaged ones, I put others into a zip lock bag.


Yup! Individually wrapped "Wet ones".


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

To be continued. Time to shuffle off for the night. Good night to all!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> The folks at our Barnes & Noble are smart. They have a waste basket positioned so you can use a paper towel to open the door to leave and drop it in on your way out.


Most places have that now. People were just dropping them on the floor. But I hate the places that don't have paper towels. I read once that those hand dryers were loaded with bacteria. I won't touch them!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> in our grocery stores they have a stand with handy wipes where they park the shopping carts. Wonderful idea.


Ours have them too but I don't like the way they smell so I use my own. I have a very sensitive sense of smell. I also don't like the smell of restroom soap. When I go to a hotel, I bring my own hand soap. Picky picky!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> That is always appreciated by me. But I have been known to dunk it from across the bathroom if the waste basket is too far from the door.


Oh, so YOU'RE the one who throws the paper towels on the floor. Ahahahaha!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> looks like I got a lively conversation going once again with my collection Jar.


Isn't it amazing how much conversation is generated by restrooms? :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, I launder money regularly. D forgets to empty his pockets before the pants go in the wash. I don't do it for him; he is a big enough boy to do that kind of stuff for himself. And I keep the change when I empty the washer and dryer.


Me too! I get to keep ALL money I find! But I have been known to wash entire wallets before. Not my fault!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Huckle - Your collection Jar - I did not recognize it at first. I thought it was a Brita. So maybe Mrs. Gifts was right to imply I am a know-nothing idiot.


Ahahaha! A bit slow, are we? Hilarious!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, SQ, you are not a know nothing idiot.


No, not an idiot. Just distracted by the knitting!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thanks Brat.
> 
> While your flowers are gorgeous, promise me when you get tired of it, you will put up a new Brat avatar.


Oh, yes! But not a new one the old one. That was my all time favorite avatar! Cute cute!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I felt so bad for her. Usually when her dad picks her up after work she puts up a fuss, but last time there were huge crocodile tears to go with it. Her other grandma took her to a church picnic where she played with countless toddlers and kids. We think she may have picked up there. Her mom has it too. Her birthday party well.She had the antibiotic in her for 3 days.


Poor baby! I hope she's on the mend.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> To be continued. Time to shuffle off for the night. Good night to all!
> 
> Good night, Marilyn. Sleep well!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Huckle - Your collection Jar - I did not recognize it at first. I thought it was a Brita. So maybe Mrs. Gifts was right to imply I am a know-nothing idiot.


SQM
you are just fine and you need to inform me what a Brita is. BTW to go with the Jar I have embroidered Toidy Paper and change the letters which makes folks guess what it may mean. If the Paper cannot handle embroidery, it is insufficient, know what I mean.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I felt so bad for her. Usually when her dad picks her up after work she puts up a fuss, but last time there were huge crocodile tears to go with it. Her other grandma took her to a church picnic where she played with countless toddlers and kids. We think she may have picked up there. Her mom has it too. Her birthday party well.She had the antibiotic in her for 3 days.


BrattyPatty
so sorry that the Little One is suffering. It is so hard to explain to them why they feel the way they do. Hope this stuff doesn't not land on you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone -- we got a lot done today. I miss being on line but we are getting a lot done. We found an apartment that we think might do, our son will go and put a small deposit on it and we will fly out on the first week of Sept. and either take it or find something else. Will stay with our son and see his new place. We will be moving the last week of Sept. as things appear now. 

Life is a bit hectic but we are doing very well. I read the posts here and it is nice to see some of the discussions. This is a good thread. 

Anyway, we are talking to the movers tomorrow and lots of work on the computer filling in forms etc. Talk to you all later. Take care everyone! Talk to you all later. S


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yuk! Just think of what's now on your clothing. Ewwww!


I just think about my washing machine. Rather have it on my clothes which gets dumped into the laundry than on my hands which can automatically touch my face.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- we got a lot done today. I miss being on line but we are getting a lot done. We found an apartment that we think might do, our son will go and put a small deposit on it and we will fly out on the first week of Sept. and either take it or find something else. Will stay with our son and see his new place. We will be moving the last week of Sept. as things appear now.
> 
> Life is a bit hectic but we are doing very well. I read the posts here and it is nice to see some of the discussions. This is a good thread.
> 
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, so YOU'RE the one who throws the paper towels on the floor. Ahahahaha!


I said I dunk it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, yes! But not a new one the old one. That was my all time favorite avatar! Cute cute!


it was special and one of my top 5 avatars.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> you are just fine and you need to inform me what a Brita is. BTW to go with the Jar I have embroidered Toidy Paper and change the letters which makes folks guess what it may mean. If the Paper cannot handle embroidery, it is insufficient, know what I mean.


Brita is a water container with a filter. How do you embroider bathroom tissue? Do you only do the top sheet? Do you use a machine?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I just think about my washing machine. Rather have it on my clothes which gets dumped into the laundry than on my hands which can automatically touch my face.


SQM
I try to not touch my face unless I just washed my hands and hand towels get changed daily. Got that from my Mom.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I try to not touch my face unless I just washed my hands and hand towels get changed daily. Got that from my Mom.


I don't touch my face consciously but sometimes I wake to awareness and find my hands on my face. But I guess it is better to find it there than elsewhere, especially in public.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Brita is a water container with a filter. How do you embroider bathroom tissue? Do you only do the top sheet? Do you use a machine?


SQM
thank you for the explanation. Top sheet only. I double up the top sheet and embroider it by machine. For special occasions I do appropriate embroidery. For special Picnics I have embroidered Paper Napkins. I also made flowers from Napkins to take to Picnics so not to attract Insects. One can never be too formal in my book. Picture of the flowers next.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- we got a lot done today. I miss being on line but we are getting a lot done. We found an apartment that we think might do, our son will go and put a small deposit on it and we will fly out on the first week of Sept. and either take it or find something else. Will stay with our son and see his new place. We will be moving the last week of Sept. as things appear now.
> 
> Life is a bit hectic but we are doing very well. I read the posts here and it is nice to see some of the discussions. This is a good thread.
> 
> Anyway, we are talking to the movers tomorrow and lots of work on the computer filling in forms etc. Talk to you all later. Take care everyone! Talk to you all later. S


Good to hear! I'm glad things are going well. The time will be here before you know it. I hope you find the perfect place.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I said I dunk it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> thank you for the explanation. Top sheet only. I double up the top sheet and embroider it by machine. For special occasions I do appropriate embroidery. For special Picnics I have embroidered Paper Napkins - one can never be too formal.


What handcraft do you not do? What other machines do you have?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> you are just fine and you need to inform me what a Brita is. BTW to go with the Jar I have embroidered Toidy Paper and change the letters which makes folks guess what it may mean. If the Paper cannot handle embroidery, it is insufficient, know what I mean.


So I get this roll of TP with my initial on it, right?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Paper flowers made from Napkins. The cheaper Napkins work best.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Paper flowers made from Napkins. The cheaper Napkins work best.


Pretty !


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> So I get this roll of TP with my initial on it, right?


cookiequeen
you are more than welcome to it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Around here we have tons of farmers' markets, and all the vendors have someone out in front of their stands passing out slices of their fruit at the end of a pair of tongs. I've had my last sampling of fruit. One day last year I came home from the market and was sick (both ends) all afternoon and evening. Now I watch other people sample the fruit to see their faces to decide whether
or not the fruit is sweet.
And that's my germ story!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I try to not touch my face unless I just washed my hands and hand towels get changed daily. Got that from my Mom.


I just can't keep my hands off my face so I'm washing my hands all of the time.

PS My mother rarely washed her hands and never after using the restroom. YUK and double YUK! I didn't learn any hygiene until I was old enough to learn it at friend's houses. Lucky you!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just can't keep my hands off my face so I'm washing my hands all of the time.
> 
> PS My mother rarely washed her hands and never after using the restroom. YUK and double YUK! I didn't learn any hygiene until I was old enough to learn it at friend's houses. Lucky you!


What if you have dogs? I'm always washing my "dog hands!" You can't rub a dog belly and then go do something else without washing your hands. I go through a LOT of hand soap.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> thank you for the explanation. Top sheet only. I double up the top sheet and embroider it by machine. For special occasions I do appropriate embroidery. For special Picnics I have embroidered Paper Napkins. I also made flowers from Napkins to take to Picnics so not to attract Insects. One can never be too formal in my book. Picture of the flowers next.


I wish I had an embroidery machine. I'd embroider my cloth napkins. Love your toilet paper!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> What handcraft do you not do? What other machines do you have?


SQM
I really try everything. I PM you re. the machines I have. It is the mastering of machines of all sorts that intrigues me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Paper flowers made from Napkins. The cheaper Napkins work best.


Beautiful! We used to make flowers out of Kleenex, but they were never this pretty! You are a woman of many talents! I love seeing your work.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> What if you have dogs? I'm always washing my "dog hands!" You can't rub a dog belly and then go do something else without washing your hands. I go through a LOT of hand soap.


As a kid we always had dogs. As an adult, we had dogs and cats til about 15 years ago. Now we just have cats. I ALWAYS have to wash my hands after I pet them! I go through lots of soap too. I buy it in the great big bottles.

In our guest bath, I have the paper hand towels. In the master bath my hubby and I have separate towels that get changed everyday. And in the kitchen, I use paper towels. I buy the great big packages of paper towels at Sams or Costco.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I had an embroidery machine. I'd embroider my cloth napkins. Love your toilet paper!


Knitter from Nebraska
we only use cloth napkins and almost all of them are embroidered and for every occasion. They also make wonderful Gifts.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Beautiful! We used to make flowers out of Kleenex, but they were never this pretty! You are a woman of many talents! I love seeing your work.


Knitter from Nebraska
Thank you. We never know what we can do until we try. And I am always ready to try. Right now the Lavender season is over and I am trying to make some - I really do not know what to call them - special bundles? They smell so good in the Linen Closet and around the house. I will show them. My Sister told me how to do them via phone.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am a borderline germophobe! I hadn't thought of that one. Thanks! I always carry a cloth handkerchief for those restrooms with hand dryers but no paper towels. It comes in handy for many things.


I may be a borderline germophobe, too! Too bad we live so far apart - we'd have a great time going to lunch together. Wipes, hand sanitizer, toilet seat covers, our own t.p., emergency hankies, extra flatware, collapsible cups, and little hooks to hang our huge purses on!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> As a kid we always had dogs. As an adult, we had dogs and cats til about 15 years ago. Now we just have cats. I ALWAYS have to wash my hands after I pet them! I go through lots of soap too. I buy it in the great big bottles.
> 
> In our guest bath, I have the paper hand towels. In the master bath my hubby and I have separate towels that get changed everyday. And in the kitchen, I use paper towels. I buy the great big packages of paper towels at Sams or Costco.


Knitter from Nebraska
for guests I use large Washcloths to be used just once. I have a crystal Basket in which I keep the rolled up little "towels" and keep it refilled when a large group gathers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I may be a borderline germophobe, too! Too bad we live so far apart - we'd have a great time going to lunch together. Wipes, hand sanitizer, toilet seat covers, our own t.p., emergency hankies, extra flatware, collapsible cups, and little hooks to hang our huge purses on!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


bonbf3
We love Lemon in our Ice Tea but always take our own since we do not know if the ones served have been washed well and who touched them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> for guests I use small towels to be used just once. I have a crystal Basket in which I keep the rolled up little towels and keep it refilled when a large group gathers.


I'm learning all kinds of new "clean" tricks! My son can't stand a kitchen sponge. When he washes dishes, he uses a paper towel! I laughed when I heard this. For Christmas, I gave him a little bag full of many, many clean sponges so he could have a new one every day! (I'm sure he didn't use them.) His wife doesn't care - she's just happy he does the dishes once in a while.

I don't know where he got that. Maybe he read about how many germs are on kitchen sponges. If we read about how many germs are on things, we couldn't go anywhere, touch anything, or eat!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> We love Lemon in our Ice Tea but always take our own since we do not know if the ones served have been washed well and who touched them.


Oh - do come to lunch with KN and me! She can bring us each a hankie, you can bring the lemons, and I'll bring the rest in my big picnic basket.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

This talk of germs makes me think of bananas. They're so gross. If you touch a banana, every germ on your fingers gets embedded in it. It's the worst with the grandkids - they'll just pick it up and put it down and pick it up again and eat it. 

My one daughter worked at Baskin-Robbins after school. They taught her how to peel a banana for a banana split without touching the edible part. I wonder if she remembers how.

I can get carried away with the thought of germs, but I really think our bodies can handle a LOT of germs. When you consider all the things we touch in a day, then touch eyes, nose, mouth - and we don't get sick. The only exception I have to this is the stomach bug. I believe this most dreaded afflliction can be transmitted with a snap of the fingers - even by phone.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> we only use cloth napkins and almost all of them are embroidered and for every occasion. They also make wonderful Gifts.


We use cloth napkins too. I like to change them up, so I have lots. I also like to make them when I can't find ones that I like.

When I was little, my grandma taught me to set a table "just right". I still love setting the table. Especially at holiday time, I use chargers and the sterling silver. I never have less than four sets of dishes because I'm always in the mood to change them. I love entertaining and do it quite often. In fact, I think its about time for a " girl's night".


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Thank you. We never know what we can do until we try. And I am always ready to try. Right now the Lavender season is over and I am trying to make some - I really do not know what to call them - special bundles? They smell so good in the Linen Closet and around the house. I will show them. My Sister told me how to do them via phone.


Do you mean little sprigs of lavender or sachets?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I may be a borderline germophobe, too! Too bad we live so far apart - we'd have a great time going to lunch together. Wipes, hand sanitizer, toilet seat covers, our own t.p., emergency hankies, extra flatware, collapsible cups, and little hooks to hang our huge purses on!! :lol: :lol: :lol:


Oh,NO! I hover! Never touch the seat! :lol: 
We'd get along great! Everybody I know, makes fun of me! I'll tell you a secret...I even use a fingernail brush when I wash my hands. :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am a germophobe. Remember pay telephones. I used to think that people were nuts who used to put hankies on the receiver. I could not even imagine using one now.
> 
> In public bathrooms I am totally nuts. Won't touch anything with my hands. Will use my cuffs, scarf ends, skirt hems, etc. A nurse told me that the dirtiest part of a public bathroom is the faucet so I use a paper towel to turn the water on and off. It there is no paper towel I use my elbow.
> 
> ...


I'm the same, and I also love the sensors. I like a paper towel with the trash can by the door so I can throw it away after I use it to open the door. Even better - a door that just pushes open.

I've dried my hands on my shirt in a pinch.

They even say the mints at the cash register have ecoli on them. I've never eaten once since. Don't even know if it's true or not - it's the image.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> for guests I use large Washcloths to be used just once. I have a crystal Basket in which I keep the rolled up little "towels" and keep it refilled when a large group gathers.


Sounds very pretty!

I'll tell you a funny story. Last weekend our son got married. We were invited to his in laws for an outdoor reception. I was astounded when I used the restroom. I have NEVER seen a filthier bathroom in my life! But there amongst the totally full counter was a little dish with wash clothes. I assumed they were to dry our hands because there was no towel but then there was nowhere to put it when I was done. I mean, that counter was FULL!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> No you're not!


Thank you!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm learning all kinds of new "clean" tricks! My son can't stand a kitchen sponge. When he washes dishes, he uses a paper towel! I laughed when I heard this. For Christmas, I gave him a little bag full of many, many clean sponges so he could have a new one every day! (I'm sure he didn't use them.) His wife doesn't care - she's just happy he does the dishes once in a while.
> 
> I don't know where he got that. Maybe he read about how many germs are on kitchen sponges. If we read about how many germs are on things, we couldn't go anywhere, touch anything, or eat!


bobf3
I can't stand kitchen sponges either. Fresh Dish Clothes every day is a must for me.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> LOL! And what's with restroom doors that open IN? You have to touch it and pull to open it. What about the people who didn't wash their hands? Paper towels or my hankie, for sure!


Yes, and you'd better use hot water and bleach on that hankie when you get home. Better yet, KFN, BOIL it!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> We love Lemon in our Ice Tea but always take our own since we do not know if the ones served have been washed well and who touched them.


Good idea! My friend owned a restaurant and the servers would go from wiping tables to cutting lemons etc... Gross! You really do not want to see the inner workings of a restaurant.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> We never leave the house without handy wipes. If we run out of the packaged ones, I put others into a zip lock bag.


Zip lock bags - greatest invention of the twentieth century! When we went to the beach with the family this summer, someone picked up a container of Splenda and asked my son, "Rich, did your folks bring this?" Son answered soberly, " If it's in a zip lock bag, they brought it." :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm learning all kinds of new "clean" tricks! My son can't stand a kitchen sponge. When he washes dishes, he uses a paper towel! I laughed when I heard this. For Christmas, I gave him a little bag full of many, many clean sponges so he could have a new one every day! (I'm sure he didn't use them.) His wife doesn't care - she's just happy he does the dishes once in a while.
> 
> I don't know where he got that. Maybe he read about how many germs are on kitchen sponges. If we read about how many germs are on things, we couldn't go anywhere, touch anything, or eat!


Sponges are awful! Ahahahahaha! I use dish clothes which get changed every day. My mil uses her dish clothes for days. They smell terrible! Yuk!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am a germophobe. Remember pay telephones. I used to think that people were nuts who used to put hankies on the receiver. I could not even imagine using one now.
> 
> In public bathrooms I am totally nuts. Won't touch anything with my hands. Will use my cuffs, scarf ends, skirt hems, etc. A nurse told me that the dirtiest part of a public bathroom is the faucet so I use a paper towel to turn the water on and off. It there is no paper towel I use my elbow.
> 
> ...


I remember the linen. I'm sure I've seen it in the last ten years somewhere.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> The folks at our Barnes & Noble are smart. They have a waste basket positioned so you can use a paper towel to open the door to leave and drop it in on your way out.


Exactly! Perfect!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Oh - do come to lunch with KN and me! She can bring us each a hankie, you can bring the lemons, and I'll bring the rest in my big picnic basket.


Ahahahahaha! I'm also anal about food. After three days, it goes into the trash! So, careful with leftovers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do you mean little sprigs of lavender or sachets?


Knitter from Nebraska
no, I am in the process of finishing a 2nd one right now, will take a picture and show you shortly. It takes about 1/2 hour to make one after it took more than an hour the first time.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> in our grocery stores they have a stand with handy wipes where they park the shopping carts. Wonderful idea.


Yes, it is.

In the hospitals, they have hand sanitizer at every check-in station, in every room as you walk in - and signs telling people to use it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> looks like I got a lively conversation going once again with my collection Jar.


Yes, you did!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, I launder money regularly. D forgets to empty his pockets before the pants go in the wash. I don't do it for him; he is a big enough boy to do that kind of stuff for himself. And I keep the change when I empty the washer and dryer.


I like the way the bills lie so flat and look almost new after a washing and drying flat on the dryer.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Huckle - Your collection Jar - I did not recognize it at first. I thought it was a Brita. So maybe Mrs. Gifts was right to imply I am a know-nothing idiot.


Uh-oh. Stepping on toes, SQM.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, I launder money regularly. D forgets to empty his pockets before the pants go in the wash. I don't do it for him; he is a big enough boy to do that kind of stuff for himself. And I keep the change when I empty the washer and dryer.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> This talk of germs makes me think of bananas. They're so gross. If you touch a banana, every germ on your fingers gets embedded in it. It's the worst with the grandkids - they'll just pick it up and put it down and pick it up again and eat it.
> 
> My one daughter worked at Baskin-Robbins after school. They taught her how to peel a banana for a banana split without touching the edible part. I wonder if she remembers how.
> 
> I can get carried away with the thought of germs, but I really think our bodies can handle a LOT of germs. When you consider all the things we touch in a day, then touch eyes, nose, mouth - and we don't get sick. The only exception I have to this is the stomach bug. I believe this most dreaded afflliction can be transmitted with a snap of the fingers - even by phone.


I wash off the outside of bananas before I eat them.

I rarely get sick, maybe one cold a year. Two Christmas Eves ago, one of my grandsons was sick and by the next day, everyone but me had rotavirus. Nasty stuff! I actually wished I had it because I got stuck taking care of everybody and cleaning up the messes. I was running all over delivering 7 up and chicken soup. Awful! I was the only one out of 14 people who didn't get it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I felt so bad for her. Usually when her dad picks her up after work she puts up a fuss, but last time there were huge crocodile tears to go with it. Her other grandma took her to a church picnic where she played with countless toddlers and kids. We think she may have picked up there. Her mom has it too. Her birthday party well.She had the antibiotic in her for 3 days.


Last time I was with our youngest grandchild, she woke up from her nap and just snuggled with me for about 30 minutes. She's almost two, and that's not like her. She's usually bouncy. She ate a little but not much. She felt warm and lost her snack. Off to the doctor - double ear infection. The day before she'd been fine. I'm glad both little girls are better now.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm the same, and I also love the sensors. I like a paper towel with the trash can by the door so I can throw it away after I use it to open the door. Even better - a door that just pushes open.
> 
> I've dried my hands on my shirt in a pinch.
> 
> They even say the mints at the cash register have ecoli on them. I've never eaten once since. Don't even know if it's true or not - it's the image.


Oh, seriously?!? Even the wrapped ones at Olive Garden?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Most places have that now. People were just dropping them on the floor. But I hate the places that don't have paper towels. I read once that those hand dryers were loaded with bacteria. I won't touch them!


I know - and your hands direct the air right into your face! The new ones sound like jet planes taking off. I like two paper towels.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- we got a lot done today. I miss being on line but we are getting a lot done. We found an apartment that we think might do, our son will go and put a small deposit on it and we will fly out on the first week of Sept. and either take it or find something else. Will stay with our son and see his new place. We will be moving the last week of Sept. as things appear now.
> 
> Life is a bit hectic but we are doing very well. I read the posts here and it is nice to see some of the discussions. This is a good thread.
> 
> Anyway, we are talking to the movers tomorrow and lots of work on the computer filling in forms etc. Talk to you all later. Take care everyone! Talk to you all later. S


Thanks for dropping in! Take care - sounds like you have it all under control.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Zip lock bags - greatest invention of the twentieth century! When we went to the beach with the family this summer, someone picked up a container of Splenda and asked my son, "Rich, did your folks bring this?" Son answered soberly, " If it's in a zip lock bag, they brought it." :lol: :lol: :lol:


OMG! I would never be without zip lock bags! I use them for everything. OK, another secret...at the airport, when they make me take off my shoes, I put zip lock bags on my feet. I can only imagine the bacteria on those floors! I'm not putting that into my shoes!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I remember the linen. I'm sure I've seen it in the last ten years somewhere.


Gas stations!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I said I dunk it.


That's right - you didn't say you TRY to dunk it. Do you really get it in every time?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> no, I am in the process of finishing a 2nd one right now, will take a picture and show you shortly. It takes about 1/2 hour to make one after it took more than an hour the first time.


I can't wait to see it! You're amazing!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I don't touch my face consciously but sometimes I wake to awareness and find my hands on my face. But I guess it is better to find it there than elsewhere, especially in public.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You win the prize tonight! I'm still laughing!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Paper flowers made from Napkins. The cheaper Napkins work best.


They're so pretty!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, it is.
> 
> In the hospitals, they have hand sanitizer at every check-in station, in every room as you walk in - and signs telling people to use it.


I don't like that stuff! So you're killing the germs, but I don't even want dead germs on my hands. I like the wipes. They make me feel like I'm getting the germs off. Anal!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Around here we have tons of farmers' markets, and all the vendors have someone out in front of their stands passing out slices of their fruit at the end of a pair of tongs. I've had my last sampling of fruit. One day last year I came home from the market and was sick (both ends) all afternoon and evening. Now I watch other people sample the fruit to see their faces to decide whether
> or not the fruit is sweet.
> And that's my germ story!


Today I was shopping for some little treat for breakfast, and all I could think of was who made this. It's best not to think about it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I know - and your hands direct the air right into your face! The new ones sound like jet planes taking off. I like two paper towels.


Definitely two!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish I had an embroidery machine. I'd embroider my cloth napkins. Love your toilet paper!


"Love your toilet paper!" I can honestly say I've never heard anyone say that before - truly original, KFN! :-D


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> "Love your toilet paper!" I can honestly say I've never heard anyone say that before - truly original, KFN! :-D


I am very particular about my toilet paper.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> As a kid we always had dogs. As an adult, we had dogs and cats til about 15 years ago. Now we just have cats. I ALWAYS have to wash my hands after I pet them! I go through lots of soap too. I buy it in the great big bottles.
> 
> In our guest bath, I have the paper hand towels. In the master bath my hubby and I have separate towels that get changed everyday. And in the kitchen, I use paper towels. I buy the great big packages of paper towels at Sams or Costco.


We use lots of paper products, too. Thinning the forests for their benefit.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> We use lots of paper products, too. Thinning the forests for their benefit.


They're biodegradable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lavender: you use long stem Lavender and use an uneven number, gather the flowers at the point where the stem is and bend the stems over the flowers, hold the stems tight at the bottom and start weaving the ribbon over and under every other stem. It takes a little practice to get it right. The Lavender cannot be very dry or it will break. When finished with the weaving I use a very long decorator needle and bring the end back to the bottom to make the bow. 
The Butterflies in the picture I embroidered on heavy backing and added some glitter glue.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We use cloth napkins too. I like to change them up, so I have lots. I also like to make them when I can't find ones that I like.
> 
> When I was little, my grandma taught me to set a table "just right". I still love setting the table. Especially at holiday time, I use chargers and the sterling silver. I never have less than four sets of dishes because I'm always in the mood to change them. I love entertaining and do it quite often. In fact, I think its about time for a " girl's night".


I'll bet your guests love coming, too!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh,NO! I hover! Never touch the seat! :lol:
> We'd get along great! Everybody I know, makes fun of me! I'll tell you a secret...I even use a fingernail brush when I wash my hands. :lol:


I also hover. I didn't realize that some people sat down. My mother told me to hover, and I'm still listening to her!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bobf3
> I can't stand kitchen sponges either. Fresh Dish Clothes every day is a must for me.


Knitted ones are nice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good idea! My friend owned a restaurant and the servers would go from wiping tables to cutting lemons etc... Gross! You really do not want to see the inner workings of a restaurant.


True. Oh - I can't even think about it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahahaha! I'm also anal about food. After three days, it goes into the trash! So, careful with leftovers.


I'm paranoid about salmonella. When I prepare chicken or pork, it's like a hospital after I clean up. And I hate it - what a pain!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Lavender: you use long stem Lavender and use an uneven number, gather the flowers at the point where the stem is and bend the stems over the flowers, hold the stems tight at the bottom and start weaving the ribbon over and under every other stem. It takes a little practice to get it right. The Lavender cannot be very dry or it will break. When finished with the weaving I use a very long decorator needle and bring the end back to the bottom to make the bow.
> The Butterflies in the picture I embroidered on heavy backing and added some glitter glue.


That is SO cool! I'll have to steal this idea. Last year, all of my lavender died (I think it didn't get watered while we were on vacation). I planted new this year but I haven't got many flowers yet. I can't wait! I love the smell of lavender! Thanks for sharing!

The butterflies are beautiful! Did you do them on the machine? Did you create the pattern? I love them! Where are you going to use them?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Knitted ones are nice.


bonbf3
I have knitted cotton ones. Easy to bleach the daylight out of.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm paranoid about salmonella. When I prepare chicken or pork, it's like a hospital after I clean up. And I hate it - what a pain!


bonbf3
I prepare chicken and pork on Aluminum foil - easy to discard and no worries.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'll bet your guests love coming, too!


Yup! I always have waaay too much food and send leftovers home with people.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wash off the outside of bananas before I eat them.
> 
> I rarely get sick, maybe one cold a year. Two Christmas Eves ago, one of my grandsons was sick and by the next day, everyone but me had rotavirus. Nasty stuff! I actually wished I had it because I got stuck taking care of everybody and cleaning up the messes. I was running all over delivering 7 up and chicken soup. Awful! I was the only one out of 14 people who didn't get it.


Better than having it! I hope you wash the outside of oranges, too!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, seriously?!? Even the wrapped ones at Olive Garden?


I don't know about Olive Garden specifically - it just said the mints.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm paranoid about salmonella. When I prepare chicken or pork, it's like a hospital after I clean up. And I hate it - what a pain!


Ditto! Everything gets scrubbed, including the faucet.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am very particular about my toilet paper.


As you should be. So should we all.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> As a kid we always had dogs. As an adult, we had dogs and cats til about 15 years ago. Now we just have cats. I ALWAYS have to wash my hands after I pet them! I go through lots of soap too. I buy it in the great big bottles.
> 
> In our guest bath, I have the paper hand towels. In the master bath my hubby and I have separate towels that get changed everyday. And in the kitchen, I use paper towels. I buy the great big packages of paper towels at Sams or Costco.


I would be washing my hands constantly since I pet and kiss the cat all the time. I love to bury my face in her neck and smell her. My hands look so old and wrinkly now that constant washing would turn them into bones.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Better than having it! I hope you wash the outside of oranges, too!


Of course! And every grape and every strawberry and every cherry etc... I hate it when I'm at somebody else's house and they just run water over the bunch of grapes. My are washed and rinsed, twice!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> I have knitted cotton ones. Easy to bleach the daylight out of.


I love making them, and they look so pretty.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yup! I always have waaay too much food and send leftovers home with people.


And they KNOW they can eat your leftovers safely.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> bonbf3
> We love Lemon in our Ice Tea but always take our own since we do not know if the ones served have been washed well and who touched them.


Bonnie's comment made me laugh. I love wackiness.

I have been under the weather this weekend and I have been blaming it on the lemon in my ice tea. I will start buying my own. Good idea.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would be washing my hands constantly since I pet and kiss the cat all the time. I love to bury my face in her neck and smell her. My hands look so old and wrinkly now that constant washing would turn them into bones.


I guess I know what the future holds for my hands.  :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ditto! Everything gets scrubbed, including the faucet.


Yes - and a follow-up with antibacterial wipes. Takes longer than cooking the stinkin' chicken!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Of course! And every grape and every strawberry and every cherry etc... I hate it when I'm at somebody else's house and they just run water over the bunch of grapes. My are washed and rinsed, twice!


Good girl!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Of course! And every grape and every strawberry and every cherry etc... I hate it when I'm at somebody else's house and they just run water over the bunch of grapes. My are washed and rinsed, twice!


And the lettuce - three times.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> And they KNOW they can eat your leftovers safely.


Yes, and they make fun of me for it too! I also throw away any (refrigerated) food that's been sitting out longer than two hours. My dil's mother will take it home no matter how long it's sat out. She says it's perfectly good. Nope!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That is SO cool! I'll have to steal this idea. Last year, all of my lavender died (I think it didn't get watered while we were on vacation). I planted new this year but I haven't got many flowers yet. I can't wait! I love the smell of lavender! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> The butterflies are beautiful! Did you do them on the machine? Did you create the pattern? I love them! Where are you going to use them?


Knitter from Nebraska
anything I show anyone is more than welcome to copy. I pin the Butterflies on Curtains, a dress, a purse or Jacket, whatever comes to mind. I have quite an assortment and pinned a lot of them onto a Summer Straw head going for a stroll. If I say so, it looked pretty. 
I did make the Butterflies on a machine from a pattern but changed the colors and used multi colored twisted thread (also called variegated but variegated comes out sort of striped). I prefer the twisted for most things.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Bonnie's comment made me laugh. I love wackiness.
> 
> I have been under the weather this weekend and I have been blaming it on the lemon in my ice tea. I will start buying my own. Good idea.


I have to give credit where credit is due - Huck is the one who takes her own lemons.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, and they make fun of me for it too! I also throw away any (refrigerated) food that's been sitting out longer than two hours. My dil's mother will take it home no matter how long it's sat out. She says it's perfectly good. Nope!


My husband thought I was a little crazy, but i point out to him that no one has gotten a food-borne illness in our house.

Of course, now that I've said that, we'll all come down with the stomach bug. Hmm......who can I call? :twisted:

(Get it?)


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Uh-oh. Stepping on toes, SQM.


I sometimes forget to look at the thread name. Sorry Mrs. Gifts.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OMG! I would never be without zip lock bags! I use them for everything. OK, another secret...at the airport, when they make me take off my shoes, I put zip lock bags on my feet. I can only imagine the bacteria on those floors! I'm not putting that into my shoes!


This is a total riot. I adore all these confessions.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Time for my nightly cup of tea and visit to Lark Rise (to Candleford), then to bed. Good night, ladies. Don't forget to wash your hands - the computer keyboard is supposed to be one of the germiest places of all!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> You win the prize tonight! I'm still laughing!


Thanks. I have not had a point in a long time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bonnie,
I use latex gloves when handling raw chicken and fish. I get the big box of them at Costco. I line the cutting board with disposable plastic sheets made for cutting boards. Clean up is a breeze and no salmonella.
I used to order lemon in my water until I saw a waitress drop one and put it back in the glass.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Lavender: you use long stem Lavender and use an uneven number, gather the flowers at the point where the stem is and bend the stems over the flowers, hold the stems tight at the bottom and start weaving the ribbon over and under every other stem. It takes a little practice to get it right. The Lavender cannot be very dry or it will break. When finished with the weaving I use a very long decorator needle and bring the end back to the bottom to make the bow.
> The Butterflies in the picture I embroidered on heavy backing and added some glitter glue.


Stunning. Do you come up for air or are you always creating?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> anything I show anyone is more than welcome to copy. I pin the Butterflies on Curtains, a dress, a purse or Jacket, whatever comes to mind. I have quite an assortment and pinned a lot of them onto a Summer Straw head going for a stroll. If I say so, it looked pretty.
> I did make the Butterflies on a machine from a pattern but changed the colors and used multi colored twisted thread (also called variegated but variegated comes out sort of striped). I prefer the twisted for most things.


I love them! You're so creative, even in the different ways you think to use them. I'm not nearly as creative as you are but I can follow a pattern.

BTW, I decided that I was ready to learn to post pics. So my hubby did some research and he says I can't post pics from either my Nexus tablet OR my I Pad.  I really wish I could share. Its so much fun seeing your stuff.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I also hover. I didn't realize that some people sat down. My mother told me to hover, and I'm still listening to her!


Laugh Laugh.

The one warning I forgot to teach my daughter was not to sit. When she was 4 or 5, some adult told her and she could not wait to tell me this. I was a failure as a mom only 4-5 years into the job. Sit?????? OOOOO. Throw up.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> My husband thought I was a little crazy, but i point out to him that no one has gotten a food-borne illness in our house.
> 
> Of course, now that I've said that, we'll all come down with the stomach bug. Hmm......who can I call? :twisted:
> 
> (Get it?)


NOT ME! :evil:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Of course! And every grape and every strawberry and every cherry etc... I hate it when I'm at somebody else's house and they just run water over the bunch of grapes. My are washed and rinsed, twice!


I use a pure vegetable glycerin to wash my fruits and vegetables. 
It's called Fruit and Vegetable wash. It leaves no after taste.
I think of all the hands that have touched the fruit and veggies and can't eat one with out using the wash first.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> This is a total riot. I adore all these confessions.


I know. It's good for the soul!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> As you should be. So should we all.


What should I be looking for besides a good bargain?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie,
> I use latex gloves when handling raw chicken and fish. I get the big box of them at Costco. I line the cutting board with disposable plastic sheets made for cutting boards. Clean up is a breeze and no salmonella.
> I used to order lemon in my water until I saw a waitress drop one and put it back in the glass.


Love the gloves idea. I don't use the cutting board for chicken or pork, but I like the idea. I'll have to try it. I've started lining some things with foil to make clean-up easier, and I like doing that.

As for dropping the lemon and putting it back, where is the gagging icon? That would cure me too.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> This is a total riot. I adore all these confessions.


Seriously! Can you even IMAGINE the bacteria from tens of thousands of people's feet? Or more! Eeeeewwww!! I avoid flying anymore, though. I refused to be frisked ever again!

Oh, and BTW, when the security guy wanted to root through my luggage, I made him change his gloves. You never know how many dirty underwear he touched when he rooted through the others before me.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Laugh Laugh.
> 
> The one warning I forgot to teach my daughter was not to sit. When she was 4 or 5, some adult told her and she could not wait to tell me this. I was a failure as a mom only 4-5 years into the job. Sit?????? OOOOO. Throw up.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You are on a roll.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> NOT ME! :evil:


Don't worry - I wouldn't think of it!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Time for my nightly cup of tea and visit to Lark Rise (to Candleford), then to bed. Good night, ladies. Don't forget to wash your hands - the computer keyboard is supposed to be one of the germiest places of all!


Good night! Sweet dreams! Try to forget about the dust mites in your bedding. I just washed mine today. Ahahahahahaha!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yup! I always have waaay too much food and send leftovers home with people.


Knitter from Nebraska
our Guests look forward to 'takehomeasak', particularly Desserts.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I use a pure vegetable glycerin to wash my fruits and vegetables.
> It's called Fruit and Vegetable wash. It leaves no after taste.
> I think of all the hands that have touched the fruit and veggies and can't eat one with out using the wash first.


My daughter-in-law uses that, too. I use soap and water on most things, just water on a few. If it's just water, I use a lot of rinses. A salad spinner is great for washing all kinds of lettuce. You can give it three good rinses, then spin it dry, and it lasts a long time.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Seriously! Can you even IMAGINE the bacteria from tens of thousands of people's feet? Or more! Eeeeewwww!! I avoid flying anymore, though. I refused to be frisked ever again!
> 
> Oh, and BTW, when the security guy wanted to root through my luggage, I made him change his gloves. You never know how many dirty underwear he touched when he rooted through the others before me.


You and I think too much. And along the same lines, too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> What should I be looking for besides a good bargain?


Ply.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good night! Sweet dreams! Try to forget about the dust mites in your bedding. I just washed mine today. Ahahahahahaha!


Twisted sister! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I don't know about Olive Garden specifically - it just said the mints.


Are you referring to the "urine" mints, Bonnie? People who leave the restrooms without washing their hands often dig into these mints. I will take one only if it is wrapped.
As for other restroom tips, as much as I hate the public ones, I always carry a small pack of Clorox wipes to wipe the faucet before I wash my hands and use a paper towel to open the door. My kids think I am too fussy, but I would rather be fussy than sick any day!
And what about those paper covers for toilet seats? They are a pain to place on the seat and now with the motion sensored flush devices, I have had them go down the pot before I had even finished putting one on. Hovering is key!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Ply.


Ply like in yarn? I guess I use fingering weight for tp which seems somewhat appropriate. What ply do others use?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Stunning. Do you come up for air or are you always creating?


SQM
I am never at rest unless asleep and I sleep like a Baby. Head on the Pillow and gone I am.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie,
> I use latex gloves when handling raw chicken and fish. I get the big box of them at Costco. I line the cutting board with disposable plastic sheets made for cutting boards. Clean up is a breeze and no salmonella.
> I used to order lemon in my water until I saw a waitress drop one and put it back in the glass.


Good idea on the disposable sheets for the cutting board. We use those when we go camping. I use the latex gloves if I have any type of cut or wound on my hands. Otherwise I just scrub my hands and nails with soap and a fingernail brush.

I am SO glad I do not like lemon in my water. Yuk!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are you referring to the "urine" mints, Bonnie? People who leave the restrooms without washing their hands often dig into these mints. I will take one only if it is wrapped.
> As for other restroom tips, as much as I hate the public ones, I always carry a small pack of Clorox wipes to wipe the faucet before I wash my hands and use a paper towel to open the door.My kids think I am too fussy, but I would rather be fussy than sick any day!


So would I.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ply like in yarn? I guess I use fingering weight for tp which seems somewhat appropriate. What ply do others use?


1-ply or 2-ply. We have to use 1-ply because we have a septic (excuse me KFN) tank. So of course we use twice as much! I guess that fools the septic tank!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Laugh Laugh.
> 
> The one warning I forgot to teach my daughter was not to sit. When she was 4 or 5, some adult told her and she could not wait to tell me this. I was a failure as a mom only 4-5 years into the job. Sit?????? OOOOO. Throw up.


When they're that little, they can't hover. They're too short. You have to put miles and miles of toilet paper on the seat for them.  :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good idea on the disposable sheets for the cutting board. We use those when we go camping. I use the latex gloves if I have any type of cut or wound on my hands. Otherwise I just scrub my hands and nails with soap and a fingernail brush.
> 
> I am SO glad I do not like lemon in my water. Yuk!


Same here. I like artificial color and flavor and lots of sugar in my water - sorta like Coke!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I use a pure vegetable glycerin to wash my fruits and vegetables.
> It's called Fruit and Vegetable wash. It leaves no after taste.
> I think of all the hands that have touched the fruit and veggies and can't eat one with out using the wash first.


I used to use that wash. I was always running out. I wash a lot of fruit. Now I just rub every surface under running water, then I rinse and repeat.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> When they're that little, they can't hover. They're too short. You have to put miles and miles of toilet paper on the seat for them.  :lol:


I forgot about that. Laugh Laugh

I did not mention how appalled I am when the cat uses her box, she does not wipe herself. Now that is a yuck.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> our Guests look forward to 'takehomeasak', particularly Desserts.


Yum! Can I come over?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> You and I think too much. And along the same lines, too.


Sad isn't it? :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Twisted sister! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


I knew that'd get you! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are you referring to the "urine" mints, Bonnie? People who leave the restrooms without washing their hands often dig into these mints. I will take one only if it is wrapped.
> As for other restroom tips, as much as I hate the public ones, I always carry a small pack of Clorox wipes to wipe the faucet before I wash my hands and use a paper towel to open the door. My kids think I am too fussy, but I would rather be fussy than sick any day!
> And what about those paper covers for toilet seats? They are a pain to place on the seat and now with the motion sensored flush devices, I have had them go down the pot before I had even finished putting one on. Hovering is key!


Don't you hate it when the sensor ones flush before you're through?!?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Ply like in yarn? I guess I use fingering weight for tp which seems somewhat appropriate. What ply do others use?


Sams brand! Soft! Nice and thick! Big sheets! Very little lint. I used to use Charmin but there was so much lint, I got tired of wiping it up.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I am never at rest unless asleep and I sleep like a Baby. Head on the Pillow and gone I am.


I wish! I have to read myself to sleep. Usually it only takes a half hour but about one week a month, I can't get to sleep til about 4:00 am.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I forgot about that. Laugh Laugh
> 
> I did not mention how appalled I am when the cat uses her box, she does not wipe herself. Now that is a yuck.


I know. How do they live like that? :roll:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I knew that'd get you! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Yes - you can see I haven't gotten up the courage to go to bed yet!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Don't you hate it when the sensor ones flush before you're through?!?


Yes - and they splash you! And no shower to clean up. Revolting!

And if they flush too soon, you have to do a little dance in the tiny stall to get them to flush again!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wish! I have to read myself to sleep. Usually it only takes a half hour but about one week a month, I can't get to sleep til about 4:00 am.


That's no fun. I used to have that problem - miserable.

If it happens tonight, just give me a call. I'll be up washing sheets. :hunf:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> 1-ply or 2-ply. We have to use 1-ply because we have a septic (excuse me KFN) tank. So of course we use twice as much! I guess that fools the septic tank!


My mil had bad plumbing. They always used Scott one ply. (No matter how much I used, my hand still got wet, yuk!). She always complained about my toilet paper and said I was gonna clog my plumbing. Now that she's moved here, she wants me to bring her toilet paper from Sams. Each package has five packages of nine rolls (45 rolls in all). I got tired of delivering a 9 pk every week so last week, I gave her the whole thing. She said it was too much but I pointed out that it would be gone in 5 weeks. Now I won't have to remember to bring it to her every week.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Same here. I like artificial color and flavor and lots of sugar in my water - sorta like Coke!


Yup! Or Pepsi, whichever. I'm addicted! I know that it's SOOO good for me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I forgot about that. Laugh Laugh
> 
> I did not mention how appalled I am when the cat uses her box, she does not wipe herself. Now that is a yuck.


Mine won't bury it! Disgusting! The smell automatically filters through the whole house.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - you can see I haven't gotten up the courage to go to bed yet!


Yeah! Why'd you change your mind?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - and they splash you! And no shower to clean up. Revolting!
> 
> And if they flush too soon, you have to do a little dance in the tiny stall to get them to flush again!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - and they splash you! And no shower to clean up. Revolting!
> 
> And if they flush too soon, you have to do a little dance in the tiny stall to get them to flush again!


Oh, you're making me laugh! Some of them don't flush til you leave the stall. I always have to wait and make sure it does (even though I know it will).


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's no fun. I used to have that problem - miserable.
> 
> If it happens tonight, just give me a call. I'll be up washing sheets. :hunf:


OMG! Ahahahahahahaha! Sorry!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Patty, it looks like you and I are the last ones left. I'm hitting the sack! Sleep well! Ttyl!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yeah! Why'd you change your mind?


Humph!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your friend and my daughter would be a pair. I'd pay for the tour.



MarilynKnits said:


> Saks Fifth had an attendant to hand you warm towels in the ladies room on the floor with better dresses. Of course you left a tip. The stalls were deeper than in any of the other stores and had a drop shelf where you could put your parcels and purse.
> 
> When I was in college, one of my friends seemed to know where to find every nice ladies room from 57th Street south. I think she could have led a guided tour.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always head for McDonald's rest rooms.



BrattyPatty said:


> I am with you, Eve. I hate public restrooms.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I've seen several people use a "wipe" on the carts at the grocery store - on the handles. Not a bad idea.
> 
> I tell myself that I just shouldn't EAT while I'm away from home! (I keep wipes in my car for just that purpose. And now you know my dirty little secret - I eat in my car.  ) I'm probably the only adult driver with m&m's dropped on the floor of her car.


You are not alone Bonnie. And your secret is safe with us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not surprised at all. It's an aggravation to find a (relatively) clean one when you need one.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Isn't it amazing how much conversation is generated by restrooms? :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't overdo, Shirley. Sounds like it's going well for your family. Thanks for checking in.



Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- we got a lot done today. I miss being on line but we are getting a lot done. We found an apartment that we think might do, our son will go and put a small deposit on it and we will fly out on the first week of Sept. and either take it or find something else. Will stay with our son and see his new place. We will be moving the last week of Sept. as things appear now.
> 
> Life is a bit hectic but we are doing very well. I read the posts here and it is nice to see some of the discussions. This is a good thread.
> 
> Anyway, we are talking to the movers tomorrow and lots of work on the computer filling in forms etc. Talk to you all later. Take care everyone! Talk to you all later. S


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Personally I think the body needs to build up antibodies to germs. Isn't that why polio was such a plague? I try to wash my hands when necessary and not think of germs too much. Moderation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> I forgot about that. Laugh Laugh
> 
> I did not mention how appalled I am when the cat uses her box, she does not wipe herself. Now that is a yuck.


My cat insists upon following me into the bathroom. I think she calls her friends and tells them that we wipe when we're done. Yuk they agree.

Ps. I've heard that flushing the toilet sends germs 10 feet+ away.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - and they splash you! And no shower to clean up. Revolting!
> 
> And if they flush too soon, you have to do a little dance in the tiny stall to get them to flush again!


Big laugh. What is worse is when it does not flush and it is impossible to figure out what to press so you are TOUCHING every part of the toilet. OOOO.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't forget me. This is my 'catch-up' time. It's only 10:40 PM here.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Patty, it looks like you and I are the last ones left. I'm hitting the sack! Sleep well! Ttyl!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Don't forget me. This is my 'catch-up' time. It's only 10:40 PM here.


It is almost 2 here.

This is my last post.

Move east.

'night.


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?

My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi BlueJay21. It sounds like we have more than a time zone in common. I'm in the American Southwest and we're on Pacific Time this time of year. No need for daylight savings time here.



BlueJay21 said:


> Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?
> 
> My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?
> 
> My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


Your last sentence needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. It contains the truth and modern research is only just finding out how true this is. I will post a few extracts here, but I know some people will not believe me. The overuse of anti bacterial products is doing more harm than good. They are killing the necessary good bacteria and allowing for the growth of the superbug which is resistant to antibiotics and this is of major concern. Our human bodies are hosts to so many bacteria and they are vital to our health.

I have just read the preceding pages where posters have outlined the steps they take to avoid any possible germs and I am shaking my head. These ladies believe they are being extremely cautious in avoiding any possible contamination with germs but they may not realise that humans need contact with germs and bacteria in order to live a healthy life. Antibacterial wipes contain many things to kill the germs and these are more harmful to human health than a few germs. Soap and water are needed to wash the hands, yes, but antibacterial wipes and soaps are not, unless there is a medical reason for their use. The manufacturers of these products have given us the hard sell in order to promote their products and cajole us into buying them.

Contrary to what most people may think, germs are necessary to keep the human body healthy.
Now scientists have mapped just which critters normally live in or on us and where, calculating that healthy people can share their bodies with more than 10,000 species of microbes.
They live on your skin, up your nose, in your gut  enough bacteria, fungi and other microbes that collected together could weigh, amazingly, a few pounds.
Don't say "eeew" just yet. Many of these organisms work to keep humans healthy, and results reported Wednesday from the government's Human Microbiome Project define what's normal in this mysterious netherworld.

The overuse of antibacterial cleaning products, including disinfectants in the home may be producing strains of multi-antibiotic-resistant bacteria. Bacteria that are resistant to many antibiotics are known as multi-resistant organisms (MROs).

Media advertisements press the point that bacteria in the home are harmful and must be eliminated by using any number of the antibacterial or antimicrobial products available.

These cleaning products are no more effective at preventing infection in the home than good personal and household hygiene using ordinary soap, warm water and plain detergent. Consumers should avoid using these products unless they have a specific medical reason to do so.

Biologists once thought that human beings were physiological islands, entirely capable of regulating their own internal workings. Our bodies made all the enzymes needed for breaking down food and using its nutrients to power and repair our tissues and organs. Signals from our own tissues dictated body states such as hunger or satiety. The specialized cells of our immune system taught themselves how to recognize and attack dangerous microbespathogenswhile at the same time sparing our own tissues.

Over the past 10 years or so, however, researchers have demonstrated that the human body is not such a neatly self-sufficient island after all. It is more like a complex ecosystema social networkcontaining trillions of bacteria and other microorganisms that inhabit our skin, genital areas, mouth and especially intestines. In fact, most of the cells in the human body are not human at all. Bacterial cells in the human body outnumber human cells 10 to one. Moreover, this mixed community of microbial cells and the genes they contain, collectively known as the microbiome, does not threaten us but offers vital help with basic physiological processesfrom digestion to growth to self-defense.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

For Eve - I guess we need one sensible person among us.

But from the posts, it is more fun to be a germophobe.

I quit using all the anti-bacterial cleaners since the 1% that survive become super germs. When I worked with kids, I used hand sanitizer that did not always work. Other than in public bathrooms, I am pretty free-wheeling. But after I shop, I wash my hands because those carts are a hot spot of germs you don't want. Otherwise, I rather keep building up my immune system.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?
> 
> My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


======
you and me both! I like my house clean, but it isn't always tidy. My step- mother was a nurse and obsessed with germs and having things perfectly clean. (mind you that was many years ago, before there were things that helped keep germs under control in the hospitals). I realize that infections were the 'enemy' when she was a nurse.

I have never been too worried about it. I have never caught an infection, or a germ related illness that I can remember. I spend too much time in my workroom. I wash my hands when needed, and do use handi wipes, but usually in my workroom as I am inclined to be messy.

I get my flu shot and if there is flu going around I am more careful. Usually avoid using store washrooms then and actually don't wander around the stores that much then.

Actually, my boys played in the dirt when they were little and I had a heck of a time with the youngest as he liked the taste of dirt. He would come in with dirt all over his face and hands. Neither ever got sick with infections. Nor did they miss time from kindergarden and school with colds. We rarely ever got colds - even now (touch wood) Pat and I rarely if ever get colds.

My dil is very obsessed with cleanliness and germs and keeps her home from school if she sniffles. Both of them (mother and daughter) always seem to have colds. She is an excellent student but misses a lot of school because she 'might be coming down with something' or if more than one or two might have colds.

My doctor believes that children (and adults) should not be too obessed with germs because they leave themselves open to catch things that the average person doesn't. This is an interesting conversation.

I am glad there is another one like me here. I started to think I was unusual. I always wash my hands in all washrooms and I don't think I am that unusual. My step mother passed away with a bad infection in her late 60's. I always wondered whether it was because she was so concerned about germs. I figure germs are part of life.

Don't get me wrong, I like clean, but I also like tohave the time in my workshop - so housework is not at the very top of my list of important things. I am careful about my fridge being clean, and also make sure my bathroom is clean. To me that makes sense. Interesting discussion and fascinating how different people do different things.

I am pretty easygoing about most things.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Personally I think the body needs to build up antibodies to germs. Isn't that why polio was such a plague? I try to wash my hands when necessary and not think of germs too much. Moderation.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Eve and Dame and BlueJay- I also agree with all of you. There is a happy medium I think.

I spend so much time in my 'studio' I have, on many occasions known I should be in the kitchen cleaning my stove or washing my floors - instead of working on a wall hanging or a painting or a sweater-(guess what I choose???) I talk myself out of it. Then I attack those things and try to do everything in one day!

My Mom was so obsessed with cleanliness that I think she didn't enjoy life that much. She nursed at the local hospital and spent her weekends cleaning and polishing the same things she had cleaned and polished the weekend before at home. She wouldn't take trips because the hotels 'weren't clean enough' therefore we didn't take them either. I remember thinking she had no 'life'.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Paper flowers made from Napkins. The cheaper Napkins work best.


I remember doing this in Girl Scouts when I was 10. They had just come out with colored facial tissues, so we made bouquets for Mother's Day.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just can't keep my hands off my face so I'm washing my hands all of the time.
> 
> PS My mother rarely washed her hands and never after using the restroom. YUK and double YUK! I didn't learn any hygiene until I was old enough to learn it at friend's houses. Lucky you!


When I was working, one of the department supervisors never washed her hands after using the restroom. When we had a party with food, everybody was quick to take a plate full before she got near it. Then we tossed the left overs. Double YUK is about it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> This talk of germs makes me think of bananas. They're so gross. If you touch a banana, every germ on your fingers gets embedded in it. It's the worst with the grandkids - they'll just pick it up and put it down and pick it up again and eat it.
> 
> My one daughter worked at Baskin-Robbins after school. They taught her how to peel a banana for a banana split without touching the edible part. I wonder if she remembers how.
> 
> I can get carried away with the thought of germs, but I really think our bodies can handle a LOT of germs. When you consider all the things we touch in a day, then touch eyes, nose, mouth - and we don't get sick. The only exception I have to this is the stomach bug. I believe this most dreaded afflliction can be transmitted with a snap of the fingers - even by phone.


I had read somewhere that the reason we get sick so easily and have so many allergies is that we are so careful with sanitation now. Remember when we were kids and played in the dirt and in the sand on the beach? Supposedly it toughened our immune systems. I still wash my hands before I touch food, before I empty the dish washer, before I take out dishes to set the table, and on and on.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I always head for McDonald's rest rooms.


We do, too - but some of them are bad, too. Barnes and Noble restrooms are usually good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> You are not alone Bonnie. And your secret is safe with us.


Thank you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Personally I think the body needs to build up antibodies to germs. Isn't that why polio was such a plague? I try to wash my hands when necessary and not think of germs too much. Moderation.


That makes sense.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> My cat insists upon following me into the bathroom. I think she calls her friends and tells them that we wipe when we're done. Yuk they agree.
> 
> Ps. I've heard that flushing the toilet sends germs 10 feet+ away.


I went to an exhibit at some children's museum somewhere - it was all about germs. It made you want to eat dirt and die now rather than a germ at a time since they are everywhere!

As for flushing the toilet, I read one thing that said if your toothbrush is within ten feet of the toilet, it will get potty germs on it when you flush. Well, crap! Either I can take a few potty germs, or I'll have to brush my teeth in the laundry room to get ten feet away from the toilet! And i HATE spitting into the washing machine. Ptoooey!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Big laugh. What is worse is when it does not flush and it is impossible to figure out what to press so you are TOUCHING every part of the toilet. OOOO.


Is there a place? To make it flush? I've waved my hands but it's never worked unless I back up and pretend I'm a new customer.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Personally I think the body needs to build up antibodies to germs. Isn't that why polio was such a plague? I try to wash my hands when necessary and not think of germs too much. Moderation.


I agree - that's how we built up antibodies.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?
> 
> My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


My house isn't germ-free, believe me. I have grandkids around, and my husband calls them walking petri dishes!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hi BlueJay21. It sounds like we have more than a time zone in common. I'm in the American Southwest and we're on Pacific Time this time of year. No need for daylight savings time here.


I love the American Southwest - lived in Tucson for two years - in the sixties - and i've never gotten over it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I went to an exhibit at some children's museum somewhere - it was all about germs. It made you want to eat dirt and die now rather than a germ at a time since they are everywhere!
> 
> As for flushing the toilet, I read one thing that said if your toothbrush is within ten feet of the toilet, it will get potty germs on it when you flush. Well, crap! Either I can take a few potty germs, or I'll have to brush my teeth in the laundry room to get ten feet away from the toilet! And i HATE spitting into the washing machine. Ptoooey!










[/URL]


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Your last sentence needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. It contains the truth and modern research is only just finding out how true this is. I will post a few extracts here, but I know some people will not believe me. The overuse of anti bacterial products is doing more harm than good. They are killing the necessary good bacteria and allowing for the growth of the superbug which is resistant to antibiotics and this is of major concern. Our human bodies are hosts to so many bacteria and they are vital to our health.
> 
> I have just read the preceding pages where posters have outlined the steps they take to avoid any possible germs and I am shaking my head. These ladies believe they are being extremely cautious in avoiding any possible contamination with germs but they may not realise that humans need contact with germs and bacteria in order to live a healthy life. Antibacterial wipes contain many things to kill the germs and these are more harmful to human health than a few germs. Soap and water are needed to wash the hands, yes, but antibacterial wipes and soaps are not, unless there is a medical reason for their use. The manufacturers of these products have given us the hard sell in order to promote their products and cajole us into buying them.
> 
> ...


It's very interesting the way you explained that, Eve. Lots of good information. I think most of us have heard some of that already.

I wouldn't take us (well, me for sure) too seriously. I think there was a lot of kidding going on here last night. :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> For Eve - I guess we need one sensible person among us.
> 
> But from the posts, it is more fun to be a germophobe.
> 
> I quit using all the anti-bacterial cleaners since the 1% that survive become super germs. When I worked with kids, I used hand sanitizer that did not always work. Other than in public bathrooms, I am pretty free-wheeling. But after I shop, I wash my hands because those carts are a hot spot of germs you don't want. Otherwise, I rather keep building up my immune system.


When I was teaching, there were germs everywhere, and you can't avoid all of them. Teachers build up quite an arsenal of antibodies over the years. I washed my hands before eating and stayed away from the drinking fountains. And got a flu shot. Those preventive measures worked for me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I love the American Southwest - lived in Tucson for two years - in the sixties - and i've never gotten over it.


Good morning ladies!
Dame, did any of the storms hit your area yesterday? 
It's almost eerie here today. You can see the moisture in the air.
It's actually foggy. Severe storms are predicted here today.
Brynn and I will be pulling out the rainy day toys.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Eve and Dame and BlueJay- I also agree with all of you. There is a happy medium I think.
> 
> ...


I think our silliness might have been taken too seriously. It was probably a case of "you had to be there." It was fun while it lasted! Now, I'm going to go buy some Lysol for my dishes. I like to spray them before I eat. (Just kidding!!! - Really I am!)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I had read somewhere that the reason we get sick so easily and have so many allergies is that we are so careful with sanitation now. Remember when we were kids and played in the dirt and in the sand on the beach? Supposedly it toughened our immune systems. I still wash my hands before I touch food, before I empty the dish washer, before I take out dishes to set the table, and on and on.


So do I. Basic, to me. I want clean hands when I touch things that people will use to eat. It seems a courtesy. But I have time to do that. When you're in the midst of child-rearing and/or working, sometimes you don't have time for all those "niceties." Sometimes they're lucky the food's on a plate and not just slapped down on the table! (Kidding again.)


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> [/URL]


 :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:



> Good morning ladies!
> Dame, did any of the storms hit your area yesterday?
> It's almost eerie here today. You can see the moisture in the air.
> It's actually foggy. Severe storms are predicted here today.
> Brynn and I will be pulling out the rainy day toys.


Sometimes those rainy days are a nice change of pace. Have fun!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Eve for taking time to do the research and share it with us all.



EveMCooke said:


> Your last sentence needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. It contains the truth and modern research is only just finding out how true this is. I will post a few extracts here, but I know some people will not believe me. The overuse of anti bacterial products is doing more harm than good. They are killing the necessary good bacteria and allowing for the growth of the superbug which is resistant to antibiotics and this is of major concern. Our human bodies are hosts to so many bacteria and they are vital to our health.
> 
> I have just read the preceding pages where posters have outlined the steps they take to avoid any possible germs and I am shaking my head. These ladies believe they are being extremely cautious in avoiding any possible contamination with germs but they may not realise that humans need contact with germs and bacteria in order to live a healthy life. Antibacterial wipes contain many things to kill the germs and these are more harmful to human health than a few germs. Soap and water are needed to wash the hands, yes, but antibacterial wipes and soaps are not, unless there is a medical reason for their use. The manufacturers of these products have given us the hard sell in order to promote their products and cajole us into buying them.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I often think of Paul McCartney's first wife Linda who died of breast cancer. She chose to spend the last of her life in Tucson AZ.



bonbf3 said:


> I love the American Southwest - lived in Tucson for two years - in the sixties - and i've never gotten over it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> When I was teaching, there were germs everywhere, and you can't avoid all of them. Teachers build up quite an arsenal of antibodies over the years. I washed my hands before eating and stayed away from the drinking fountains. And got a flu shot. Those preventive measures worked for me.


Excellent, reasonable tactics.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The storms were oddly threatening here. Looked like we were going to get a downpour but it seems to have fizzled out locally. hugs



BrattyPatty said:


> Good morning ladies!
> Dame, did any of the storms hit your area yesterday?
> It's almost eerie here today. You can see the moisture in the air.
> It's actually foggy. Severe storms are predicted here today.
> Brynn and I will be pulling out the rainy day toys.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Although I live in the desert, I love a storm...except snow!



bonbf3 said:


> Sometimes those rainy days are a nice change of pace. Have fun!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I went to an exhibit at some children's museum somewhere - it was all about germs. It made you want to eat dirt and die now rather than a germ at a time since they are everywhere!
> 
> As for flushing the toilet, I read one thing that said if your toothbrush is within ten feet of the toilet, it will get potty germs on it when you flush. Well, crap! Either I can take a few potty germs, or I'll have to brush my teeth in the laundry room to get ten feet away from the toilet! And i HATE spitting into the washing machine. Ptoooey!


Perhaps I am lucky in this respect. The bathroom is a separate room from the toilet. The bathroom only contains the shower cubicle, the bath and the handbasin. No chance of that happening to my toothbrush. Just an aside, it always amuses me when the mormon missionaries pay a visit and ask if they can use the bathroom and I reply "sure, do you wish to wash your hands?" and show them the bathroom. Mean I know, but I enjoy the puzzled looks when they cannot see the toilet. I then tell them that we 'use the toilet' over here, we use the bathroom to take a bath or a shower. Ensuites will contain a toilet but most houses have a separate toilet, containing just the toilet.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think our silliness might have been taken too seriously. It was probably a case of "you had to be there." It was fun while it lasted! Now, I'm going to go buy some Lysol for my dishes. I like to spray them before I eat. (Just kidding!!! - Really I am!)


Sorry, but I honestly thought you were all being serious. I thought you were all going to extreme lengths of be clean. I am a silly old woman, am I not? There was a programme on the TV the other week regarding how they are treating some cases of diarrhea, no I will not go into details. It was the Catalyst programme that airs weekly. The gist was that the human body needs the bacteria we carry on us and in us and so many modern mothers are killing all the bacteria with their overuse of the antibacterial wipes and cleansers. Please forgive me for mistaking your fun session.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps I am lucky in this respect. The bathroom is a separate room from the toilet. The bathroom only contains the shower cubicle, the bath and the handbasin. No chance of that happening to my toothbrush. Just an aside, it always amuses me when the mormon missionaries pay a visit and ask if they can use the bathroom and I reply "sure, do you wish to wash your hands?" and show them the bathroom. Mean I know, but I enjoy the puzzled looks when they cannot see the toilet. I then tell them that we 'use the toilet' over here, we use the bathroom to take a bath or a shower. Ensuites will contain a toilet but most houses have a separate toilet, containing just the toilet.


I think we were honest last night but still having fun discussing our hang ups. Your washroom set up would make me unhappy because I would have to open and close another set of doors without having washed my hands after using the WC.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry, but I honestly thought you were all being serious. I thought you were all going to extreme lengths of be clean. I am a silly old woman, am I not? There was a programme on the TV the other week regarding how they are treating some cases of diarrhea, no I will not go into details. It was the Catalyst programme that airs weekly. The gist was that the human body needs the bacteria we carry on us and in us and so many modern mothers are killing all the bacteria with their overuse of the antibacterial wipes and cleansers. Please forgive me for mistaking your fun session.


Eve, Thank you for your response to this dialogue. I do not believe that some posters were in jest. From what I have seen around me people are obsessed with germs. You have given a very good outline of why we need germs. To try to eliminate them only makes the ones that survive stronger; hence, the superbug.

It was quite a revolution in the 50s when antibiotics were invented. But, oh, look at the chaos they have caused. People take antibiotics for the least little thing, and the consequence is that we need stronger and stronger antibiotics in order to treat what years ago would have been an inconsequential problem.

Long live the germs, I say.

I just wanted to check in on this conversation this morning before I go to the dentist. I have only been to this particular dentist once, but I was told that he always wears a mask. No one has seen his face. Do you think he is afraid of germs? He does wash his hands before attending to a patient, though.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> Eve, Thank you for your response to this dialogue. I do not believe that some posters were in jest. From what I have seen around me people are obsessed with germs. You have given a very good outline of why we need germs. To try to eliminate them only makes the ones that survive stronger; hence, the superbug.
> 
> It was quite a revolution in the 50s when antibiotics were invented. But, oh, look at the chaos they have caused. People take antibiotics for the least little thing, and the consequence is that we need stronger and stronger antibiotics in order to treat what years ago would have been an inconsequential problem.
> 
> ...


I think he is preventing the spread of his germs to you. My dentist wears a mask also. Maybe it is standard equipment now.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

We do what we think is of benefit to us but never go overboard just do not like unclean lemons in our Ice Tea, wash our hands often and exchange our Toothbrushes frequently. We do not have an army of "killers" to spray everything in sight. Our Ancestors lived a long life and never bothered with washing a Carrot for example before eating it, they pulled it out of the ground, wiped it with their dirty hands and ate it. Let's not make us sick worrying about getting sick. Just keep everything reasonably clean.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> I think he is preventing the spread of his germs to you. My dentist wears a mask also. Maybe it is standard equipment now.


SQM
I think if I were a Dentist I would wear a Mask simply to keep from having to breathe in and smell the BAD breath of others. Encountered a Gentleman at the last voting, his breath could knock over a Horse. My husband was ready to puke after speaking with him.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I think if I were a Dentist I would wear a Mask simply to keep from having to breathe in and smell the BAD breath of others. Encountered a Gentleman at the last voting, his breath could knock over a Horse. My husband was ready to puke after speaking with him.


I was being too delicate to mention that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry, but I honestly thought you were all being serious. I thought you were all going to extreme lengths of be clean. I am a silly old woman, am I not? There was a programme on the TV the other week regarding how they are treating some cases of diarrhea, no I will not go into details. It was the Catalyst programme that airs weekly. The gist was that the human body needs the bacteria we carry on us and in us and so many modern mothers are killing all the bacteria with their overuse of the antibacterial wipes and cleansers. Please forgive me for mistaking your fun session.


MOST of what I said was not an exaggeration. I got a little carried away but not much. I'm not afraid to get dirty but I try to avoid the nasties in public places. In my home, I'm much more relaxed except when handling food or petting the cat. I can't stand how my hands feel after I pet her and if I don't wash my hands and touch my eyes, they burn and water. I plead guilty!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps I am lucky in this respect. The bathroom is a separate room from the toilet. The bathroom only contains the shower cubicle, the bath and the handbasin. No chance of that happening to my toothbrush. Just an aside, it always amuses me when the mormon missionaries pay a visit and ask if they can use the bathroom and I reply "sure, do you wish to wash your hands?" and show them the bathroom. Mean I know, but I enjoy the puzzled looks when they cannot see the toilet. I then tell them that we 'use the toilet' over here, we use the bathroom to take a bath or a shower. Ensuites will contain a toilet but most houses have a separate toilet, containing just the toilet.


In our master bath, the toilet is in a separate small room within in bathroom itself. However we rarely close that door. I have a cover on my toothbrush. ;-)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> Eve, Thank you for your response to this dialogue. I do not believe that some posters were in jest. From what I have seen around me people are obsessed with germs. You have given a very good outline of why we need germs. To try to eliminate them only makes the ones that survive stronger; hence, the superbug.
> 
> It was quite a revolution in the 50s when antibiotics were invented. But, oh, look at the chaos they have caused. People take antibiotics for the least little thing, and the consequence is that we need stronger and stronger antibiotics in order to treat what years ago would have been an inconsequential problem.
> 
> ...


I'm not afraid of the average run of the mill germs. E coli, norovirus? Different story. My own germs are perfectly fine. :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I think he is preventing the spread of his germs to you. My dentist wears a mask also. Maybe it is standard equipment now.


I think the masks became standard after the advent of aids. Bodily fluids and all. Dental tools can send things flying.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sponges are awful! Ahahahahaha! I use dish clothes which get changed every day. My mil uses her dish clothes for days. They smell terrible! Yuk!


I have disposable Clorox wipes on the counter and use them to wipe the counter, table, stove top, and sink. I have crocheted 4" dishcloths and use one to do whatever dishes don't go in the dishwasher then it goes into the wash after one meal's use. I cut my Brillo pads into quarters and use one after a meal when needed then toss it. I don't like the sour smell dish cloths get if you reuse them before laundering.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahahaha! I'm also anal about food. After three days, it goes into the trash! So, careful with leftovers.


Wegman's by us carries a package of 100 tea leaf bags for loose tea. I like to put a wedge of home scrubbed lemon into one then put it in a snack size zip bag to use when I have iced tea out. I don't trust the restaurant to really wash that lemon rind properly. And having it in the tea leaf bag you don't get the seeds in your tea.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I know - and your hands direct the air right into your face! The new ones sound like jet planes taking off. I like two paper towels.


Our library did away with paper towels and installed an air dryer. It blows so hard I think it could knock a small child to the ground. I use some tp and flush it down when I am done (using my foot on the flush handle).


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes - and a follow-up with antibacterial wipes. Takes longer than cooking the stinkin' chicken!


I put the package of chicken into the plastic grocery carry bag, put on my disposable gloves, and work on the chicken in the sink. I have a paper plate in another grocery bag in the other tub of the sink and put the cleaned pieces of chicken there. I try not to get it near the counter while it is raw, and I toss the bags, wrappers, gloves and debris when I am done and the food is in the pot or pan.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> I always head for McDonald's rest rooms.


The ones at Dunkin Donuts are usually clean too.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In our master bath, the toilet is in a separate small room within in bathroom itself. However we rarely close that door. I have a cover on my toothbrush. ;-)


It is probably not such a good idea to cover your toothbrush. Moisture and darkness encourages the growth of bacteria and other interesting life forms. Let your brushes air out.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I often think of Paul McCartney's first wife Linda who died of breast cancer. She chose to spend the last of her life in Tucson AZ.


I didn't know that. I have dreams of going back. I'm sure it's different now.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Although I live in the desert, I love a storm...except snow!


Oh, you live in the desert. I'll bet you have some inspiring sights.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps I am lucky in this respect. The bathroom is a separate room from the toilet. The bathroom only contains the shower cubicle, the bath and the handbasin. No chance of that happening to my toothbrush. Just an aside, it always amuses me when the mormon missionaries pay a visit and ask if they can use the bathroom and I reply "sure, do you wish to wash your hands?" and show them the bathroom. Mean I know, but I enjoy the puzzled looks when they cannot see the toilet. I then tell them that we 'use the toilet' over here, we use the bathroom to take a bath or a shower. Ensuites will contain a toilet but most houses have a separate toilet, containing just the toilet.


That sounds very civilized. Some houses here have the toilet separated with a partial wall. Mine doesn't, though.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry, but I honestly thought you were all being serious. I thought you were all going to extreme lengths of be clean. I am a silly old woman, am I not? There was a programme on the TV the other week regarding how they are treating some cases of diarrhea, no I will not go into details. It was the Catalyst programme that airs weekly. The gist was that the human body needs the bacteria we carry on us and in us and so many modern mothers are killing all the bacteria with their overuse of the antibacterial wipes and cleansers. Please forgive me for mistaking your fun session.


Humor with a basis in truth.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Eve, Thank you for your response to this dialogue. I do not believe that some posters were in jest. From what I have seen around me people are obsessed with germs. You have given a very good outline of why we need germs. To try to eliminate them only makes the ones that survive stronger; hence, the superbug.
> 
> It was quite a revolution in the 50s when antibiotics were invented. But, oh, look at the chaos they have caused. People take antibiotics for the least little thing, and the consequence is that we need stronger and stronger antibiotics in order to treat what years ago would have been an inconsequential problem.
> 
> ...


I think we were laughing at ourselves, at the same time realizing that cleanliness is a good thing.

When AIDS became a household word, great pains were taken in the medical profession to prevent spreading since not much was known at the time.

All the dentists here in the U.S. started to use gloves and masks and goggles.

We all loved our dentist (in our family), and we were not at all offended, even though he apologized. He said it was for his protection and ours.

Now I can't imagine they put their fingers in our mouths without gloves - but they did - for years. I like it better this way and don't mind the precaution. They may have done away with the masks, I can't remember.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I have disposable Clorox wipes on the counter and use them to wipe the counter, table, stove top, and sink. I have crocheted 4" dishcloths and use one to do whatever dishes don't go in the dishwasher then it goes into the wash after one meal's use. I cut my Brillo pads into quarters and use one after a meal when needed then toss it. I don't like the sour smell dish cloths get if you reuse them before laundering.


Oh! Oh! You're one of US! Ahahahahahaha!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry, but I honestly thought you were all being serious. I thought you were all going to extreme lengths of be clean. I am a silly old woman, am I not? There was a programme on the TV the other week regarding how they are treating some cases of diarrhea, no I will not go into details. It was the Catalyst programme that airs weekly. The gist was that the human body needs the bacteria we carry on us and in us and so many modern mothers are killing all the bacteria with their overuse of the antibacterial wipes and cleansers. Please forgive me for mistaking your fun session.


Sometimes it's hard to tell. I don't know about the others, but I was just poking a little fun at myself, sort of exaggerating what is a true desire to remain free of salmonella and stomach viruses. Even if it was true, we were so funny I think we should go on tv! I heard Ellen do a monologue on women's restrooms - it was very funny - about the difficulties of getting the toilet paper off the roll, I think. Oh - don't get me started!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I was being too delicate to mention that.


Ah, SQM - you are the soul of delicacy. :wink:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I put the package of chicken into the plastic grocery carry bag, put on my disposable gloves, and work on the chicken in the sink. I have a paper plate in another grocery bag in the other tub of the sink and put the cleaned pieces of chicken there. I try not to get it near the counter while it is raw, and I toss the bags, wrappers, gloves and debris when I am done and the food is in the pot or pan.


I had a similar plan last time and it worked well. Great minds think alike.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> The ones at Dunkin Donuts are usually clean too.


Good to know - I've never tried one.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! Oh! You're one of US! Ahahahahahaha!


She is - my son would be so impressed!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Our library did away with paper towels and installed an air dryer. It blows so hard I think it could knock a small child to the ground. I use some tp and flush it down when I am done (using my foot on the flush handle).


Ah yes! The old foot on the flusher technique. I'm very familiar with it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> It is probably not such a good idea to cover your toothbrush. Moisture and darkness encourages the growth of bacteria and other interesting life forms. Let your brushes air out.


Its clear plastic and it's open in the back, so it can dry.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Sometimes it's hard to tell. I don't know about the others, but I was just poking a little fun at myself, sort of exaggerating what is a true desire to remain free of salmonella and stomach viruses. Even if it was true, we were so funny I think we should go on tv! I heard Ellen do a monologue on women's restrooms - it was very funny - about the difficulties of getting the toilet paper off the roll, I think. Oh - don't get me started!


Oh! Especially when you said you'd be up late, washing your bedding. I about died laughing!!!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah yes! The old foot on the flusher technique. I'm very familiar with it.


I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought it was meant to be used that way. Once I had a fellow teacher say she used her hand and hated to think people used their foot. Vive la difference! Well, I tried it with my hand once. Had to use tp to keep my hand clean, and then my face was right over the water. (I'm short, in case you've forgotten.) Once was enough - back to the foot.

One day when I was teaching, I wore a long skirt, fairly slim, to school. When I went to flush with my foot, the skirt was too tight, almost knocked my other foot out from under me, and I nearly fell on my fanny! Thought I was so cute in that skirt - that'll show me. I laughed so hard I almost fell down anyway. :lol:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh! Especially when you said you'd be up late, washing your bedding. I about died laughing!!!


Glad you enjoyed it. You set that one up for me, my dear. :wink:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought it was meant to be used that way. Once I had a fellow teacher say she used her hand and hated to think people used their foot. Vive la difference! Well, I tried it with my hand once. Had to use tp to keep my hand clean, and then my face was right over the water. (I'm short, in case you've forgotten.) Once was enough - back to the foot.
> 
> One day when I was teaching, I wore a long skirt, fairly slim, to school. When I went to flush with my foot, the skirt was too tight, almost knocked my other foot out from under me, and I nearly fell on my fanny! Thought I was so cute in that skirt - that'll show me. I laughed so hard I almost fell down anyway. :lol:


Hilarious! You have such a way with words that I feel like I was there! :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Glad you enjoyed it. You set that one up for me, my dear. :wink:


Oh, I know I did but it was perfect! Bravo!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought it was meant to be used that way. Once I had a fellow teacher say she used her hand and hated to think people used their foot. Vive la difference! Well, I tried it with my hand once. Had to use tp to keep my hand clean, and then my face was right over the water. (I'm short, in case you've forgotten.) Once was enough - back to the foot.
> 
> One day when I was teaching, I wore a long skirt, fairly slim, to school. When I went to flush with my foot, the skirt was too tight, almost knocked my other foot out from under me, and I nearly fell on my fanny! Thought I was so cute in that skirt - that'll show me. I laughed so hard I almost fell down anyway. :lol:


Of course we all use our foot. Here is an entry from the Sloth American Language Dictionary for "foot":

1. Platform extending from the leg used for walking and balance.
2. End portion of the leg used for flushing public toilets or your own if you are a total slob.

Please note that in Hindi they have no specific word for foot. Leg and foot are one word. They do differentiate between leg and knee. If someone finds this is incorrect, do not blame me. The bastard lied to me about everything.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Of course we all use our foot. Here is an entry from the Sloth American Language Dictionary for "foot":
> 
> 1. Platform extending from the leg used for walking and balance.
> 2. End portion of the leg used for flushing public toilets or your own if you are a total slob.
> ...


" the Sloth American Language Dictionary"?!? Ahahahahahaha! Post a link, please. :XD:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I love them! You're so creative, even in the different ways you think to use them. I'm not nearly as creative as you are but I can follow a pattern.
> 
> BTW, I decided that I was ready to learn to post pics. So my hubby did some research and he says I can't post pics from either my Nexus tablet OR my I Pad.  I really wish I could share. Its so much fun seeing your stuff.


Hey KFN! Long time no talk! I've been trying to keep up with NB, but by the time I'm done reading I don't have time to write. I did want to tell you I post pics from my iPad. Just make sure the pic is in your camera roll and it should be no problem. When you click on " file" go to "choose existing" and it will take you to your camera roll. That's the only way I have posted pics.

I hope everything is well with you. How was your sons wedding?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Its clear plastic and it's open in the back, so it can dry.


I use a plastic shot glass for mouthwash, and after I use it, wash and rinse it, I hang it over my toothbrush. I use an OralB electric brush, and every couple of days I run it in mouthwash clean it better than the normal rinse after use.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hilarious! You have such a way with words that I feel like I was there! :thumbup:


Flip a coin to see who's Lucy and who's Ethel.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Hey KFN! Long time no talk! I've been trying to keep up with NB, but by the time I'm done reading I don't have time to write. I did want to tell you I post pics from my iPad. Just make sure the pic is in your camera roll and it should be no problem. When you click on " file" go to "choose existing" and it will take you to your camera roll. That's the only way I have posted pics.
> 
> I hope everything is well with you. How was your sons wedding?


Will that work with the IPad 1? Oh! Mine doesn't even have a camera. Oh, well!

Good to "see" you! I'm sorry you've been so busy. The wedding was great! We got to meet our dil's whole family and they were so nice. We really liked them! Son and dil are still planning their "real wedding" for next summer, as originally planned. They're going to renew their vows and have the big wing ding. This was put together in under 10 days. But I thought it was really nice.

This has been a crazy, busy summer for us and I wish things would calm down, but they're not likely to, any time soon. Its great talking to you! I hope things slow down for you, too. Ttyl!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I use a plastic shot glass for mouthwash, and after I use it, wash and rinse it, I hang it over my toothbrush. I use an OralB electric brush, and every couple of days I run it in mouthwash clean it better than the normal rinse after use.


Good idea!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Flip a coin to see who's Lucy and who's Ethel.


Ahahahahahaha!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> Damemary, you and I must be in the same time zone. It is 10:49 here. But I am with you when it comes to germs. When I first came to Canada I could not get over the obsession with cleanliness. Now don't get me wrong. Cleanliness is good. But I have never been a germophobe. My ex-husband's brother's family live in LA. Their kids were always sick; mine never were. Children need to encounter many germs, not the really nasty ones, in order to build up immunity. I do believe that people get sick more today because we try to eliminate all the germs. As far as I am concerned, germs are good; again, not the really nasty ones. We can't avoid them; they are all around us. Unless we live in bubbles, we are bound to come across germs. And what happens when we have no immunity to them?
> 
> My house is as clean as it needs to be. We have two dogs who get a lot of love and cuddles, and we are rarely sick. I couldn't be bothered with all this handy-wipe stuff, etc. Soap and water is the best stuff to use to eliminate germs. I am all for washing one's hands regularly; that seems to help during flu season. But otherwise I do believe that germs are good for us.


I'm with both of you. In moderation, germs are good. I hardly ever got sick as a child and as an adult. We were taught to wash our hands after using the restroom or something else that required handling loads of germs (like using the pooper scooper, gardening, etc.) and before eating or handling food.

You know, Dr Stanley Van Den Noort from UCI, who was (g-d rest his kind and generous soul) one of the leading experts on multiple sclerosis (literally wrote the book on it), told me that MS is believed to be caused by not enough exposure to pathogens. Apparently it is more prevalent in over sanitized cultures, such as ours. I think it was dame who mentioned the polio thing, it's like that. So I guess not enough exposure to germs can leave us more susceptible to more harmful germs and other pathogens, but it can also destroy our immune system to the point where our body, even a seemingly unrelated part like the myelin sheath (insulation that turns into Swiss cheese is the cause of MS symptoms) around our neurons, cannot function properly.

My house is clean, too. I use the wipes to clean up small messes or wipe down in the kitchen, bathroom, outside, etc. I carry purel sometimes but only bc I have to put drops in my eyes every so often. The problem is, just soap and water isn't going to get some of the really bad germs that are found on the floor, and granny uses the dish towels and dish sponge (which I admittedly do put in the microwave for 30 seconds after a certain point) to clean the floors, and sometimes uses nothing at all for detergent. The germs that the sponge and towel pick up will not be ridden by dish or hand soap. The worst part is she uses them and puts them back without telling me, so I fear I have used them unknowingly on the dishes! Oh well, nothing has happened (yet), but I am afraid of granny getting an infection she can't come back from. She also thinks just rinsing things of with water is washing them. Boy, do I have my hands full!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Hi BlueJay21. It sounds like we have more than a time zone in common. I'm in the American Southwest and we're on Pacific Time this time of year. No need for daylight savings time here.


I am so jealous. I ABHORE daylight savings. It's UNNATURAL! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :evil: :evil:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hilarious! You have such a way with words that I feel like I was there! :thumbup:


Sorry you missed it! Boy, I thought I was so hip in that skirt, too.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Of course we all use our foot. Here is an entry from the Sloth American Language Dictionary for "foot":
> 
> 1. Platform extending from the leg used for walking and balance.
> 2. End portion of the leg used for flushing public toilets or your own if you are a total slob.
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: platform?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> Your last sentence needs to be repeated and repeated and repeated. It contains the truth and modern research is only just finding out how true this is. I will post a few extracts here, but I know some people will not believe me. The overuse of anti bacterial products is doing more harm than good. They are killing the necessary good bacteria and allowing for the growth of the superbug which is resistant to antibiotics and this is of major concern. Our human bodies are hosts to so many bacteria and they are vital to our health.
> 
> I have just read the preceding pages where posters have outlined the steps they take to avoid any possible germs and I am shaking my head. These ladies believe they are being extremely cautious in avoiding any possible contamination with germs but they may not realise that humans need contact with germs and bacteria in order to live a healthy life. Antibacterial wipes contain many things to kill the germs and these are more harmful to human health than a few germs. Soap and water are needed to wash the hands, yes, but antibacterial wipes and soaps are not, unless there is a medical reason for their use. The manufacturers of these products have given us the hard sell in order to promote their products and cajole us into buying them.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Flip a coin to see who's Lucy and who's Ethel.


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

post deleted - my info was incorrect. Duh.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm with both of you. In moderation, germs are good. I hardly ever got sick as a child and as an adult. We were taught to wash our hands after using the restroom or something else that required handling loads of germs (like using the pooper scooper, gardening, etc.) and before eating or handling food.
> 
> You know, Dr Stanley Van Den Noort from UCI, who was (g-d rest his kind and generous soul) one of the leading experts on multiple sclerosis (literally wrote the book on it), told me that MS is believed to be caused by not enough exposure to pathogens. Apparently it is more prevalent in over sanitized cultures, such as ours. I think it was dame who mentioned the polio thing, it's like that. So I guess not enough exposure to germs can leave us more susceptible to more harmful germs and other pathogens, but it can also destroy our immune system to the point where our body, even a seemingly unrelated part like the myelin sheath (insulation that turns into Swiss cheese is the cause of MS symptoms) around our neurons, cannot function properly.
> 
> My house is clean, too. I use the wipes to clean up small messes or wipe down in the kitchen, bathroom, outside, etc. I carry purel sometimes but only bc I have to put drops in my eyes every so often. The problem is, just soap and water isn't going to get some of the really bad germs that are found on the floor, and granny uses the dish towels and dish sponge (which I admittedly do put in the microwave for 30 seconds after a certain point) to clean the floors, and sometimes uses nothing at all for detergent. The germs that the sponge and towel pick up will not be ridden by dish or hand soap. The worst part is she uses them and puts them back without telling me, so I fear I have used them unknowingly on the dishes! Oh well, nothing has happened (yet), but I am afraid of granny getting an infection she can't come back from. She also thinks just rinsing things of with water is washing them. Boy, do I have my hands full!


You do have your hands full - and a lot of patience. I'm sure you'll never regret it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Sorry you missed it! Boy, I thought I was so hip in that skirt, too.


Perhaps you should have held the skirt up to your "hip". Ahaha! Look at it this way, if you'd gone down, at least the floor of THAT stall would have been clean.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> post deleted - my info was incorrect. Duh.


Oh, No! Say it isn't so!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one. I thought it was meant to be used that way. Once I had a fellow teacher say she used her hand and hated to think people used their foot. Vive la difference! Well, I tried it with my hand once. Had to use tp to keep my hand clean, and then my face was right over the water. (I'm short, in case you've forgotten.) Once was enough - back to the foot.
> 
> One day when I was teaching, I wore a long skirt, fairly slim, to school. When I went to flush with my foot, the skirt was too tight, almost knocked my other foot out from under me, and I nearly fell on my fanny! Thought I was so cute in that skirt - that'll show me. I laughed so hard I almost fell down anyway. :lol:


LOL!!!

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

I could just picture both of those scenarios! I, too, use my foot. The second is why I only wear peasant skirts! Lol!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Of course we all use our foot. Here is an entry from the Sloth American Language Dictionary for "foot":
> 
> 1. Platform extending from the leg used for walking and balance.
> 2. End portion of the leg used for flushing public toilets or your own if you are a total slob.
> ...


And is monkeys use the same definition "foot" as we do "hand"! Lol!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I use a plastic shot glass for mouthwash, and after I use it, wash and rinse it, I hang it over my toothbrush. I use an OralB electric brush, and every couple of days I run it in mouthwash clean it better than the normal rinse after use.


Is it the pulsar? I have the pulsar and LOVE it. I do the same with my mouthwash and toothbrush. Didn't think about the shot glass, I should do that! Gotta find one though, hubby and I are not drinkers (except my wine at night and holidays! L'chayim!) so I will have to look in my "college days" box. Ah, memories...  :wink:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Will that work with the IPad 1? Oh! Mine doesn't even have a camera. Oh, well!
> 
> Good to "see" you! I'm sorry you've been so busy. The wedding was great! We got to meet our dil's whole family and they were so nice. We really liked them! Son and dil are still planning their "real wedding" for next summer, as originally planned. They're going to renew their vows and have the big wing ding. This was put together in under 10 days. But I thought it was really nice.
> 
> This has been a crazy, busy summer for us and I wish things would calm down, but they're not likely to, any time soon. Its great talking to you! I hope things slow down for you, too. Ttyl!


If you can get the picture from a laptop/computer then I believe so. It might be a different app, though. From a computer you should be able to resize a JPEG to fit the criteria. I just use "paint" to resize things.

Some of it has been a good kind of busy, others not so much. Thanks! I'm so glad the wedding went well and that they will be having a vow renewal and mega reception. I think that is actually the way to do it. My new thing is people will get a first anniversary present, just a card on their wedding. I have just seen too many marriages fall apart (including my own years ago) that people spent time and money purchasing a gift that was essentially wasted or fodder for an argument. They make it to one year, they get a present. Fortunately, I have only been to family's weddings, so they have to accept me for who I am and my beliefs. Right? Plus, the people who have gotten married already had everything they needed and got most of what they wanted from other people. I may reconsider my position if I gent to a wedding of someone who is not as fortunate.

Our wedding was quite small (only immediate family and a couple of our dearest friends. If we invited the rest of the family it would have been an extra 60 people between the 2 of us. Granny alone has 22 grandchildren and dh's dad is the middle of 12) and planned in basically a month. I wouldn't have done it any other way.

Hey, I've been thinking about you and getting the soup recipes to you. I am having trouble reading small print still, so it will have to wait a little longer. I hope you understand. As soon as I can get back into my cookbooks, I will yep it out and send it to you. There was one other person who requested my recipes, do you remember? I think it was maidinbedlam, but I'm not sure. Which recipes did you want again? Just the tortilla soup?

Did you ever try trader joes hummus? I got a three layered on last week, some crumbled goat cheese and pita crackers. I schmear the humus on the crackers, drizzle some goat cheese on it... Holy cow!,!! It's like a delicious and somewhat nutritious party in your mouth! You can make it even more nutritious by slicing some thicker carrots at an angle to increase surface area. Hummus and carrots are a great combo. I also got the croissants you told me about, but I haven't made them yet.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Is it the pulsar? I have the pulsar and LOVE it. I do the same with my mouthwash and toothbrush. Didn't think about the shot glass, I should do that! Gotta find one though, hubby and I are not drinkers (except my wine at night and holidays! L'chayim!) so I will have to look in my "college days" box. Ah, memories...  :wink:


I get a package of about 20 shot glasses at the dollar store. I use them for serving tiny portions I don't want to spread on a plate, such as horseradish sauce. They are also my portion control for snacks like nuts or M & Ms so I can enjoy but not overdo.

My toothbrush is the OralB cheapie that Bed Bath had on sale for under $20 a few years ago. I get a 6 pack of replacement brushes at BJ's. My dentist says I have better control over plaque and massaging my gums since I got it. My mother had a Sonicare, but the replacement brushes for it are so expensive as to put me in shock.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Perhaps you should have held the skirt up to your "hip". Ahaha! Look at it this way, if you'd gone down, at least the floor of THAT stall would have been clean.


Yes, except I probably would have broken my neck on the walls or door in the tiny stall.

The custodian said that some of the teachers left the place disgusting! He was a great guy - I believed him.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, No! Say it isn't so!


I know. Well, there's a first time for everything! :twisted:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not afraid of the average run of the mill germs. E coli, norovirus? Different story. My own germs are perfectly fine. :lol:


When my son was in hospital awaiting surgery after his MVA his ward was closed due to norovirus. The night before the operation they moved someone into the bed opposite his and this young male was being violently sick. It was a surgery ward with three patients having operations in the morning. My son and another young lad, both MVA, both suffering from the same injuries, shattered pelvis requiring surgery and pinning and another elderly man who needed surgery for a broken leg. They should have isolated the sick young man in a ward of his own. I got up and closed the curtains around my son's bed. He was the first down to the surgery the next morning, going down to surgery about 7.00 am. He said when he woke up after the surgery he found himself projectile vomiting. The surgery was more complicated and took longer than expected and he spent over six hours in recovery before they brought him back to the ward. When I visited him that evening, they would not let me see him before that, the ward was closed and only close relative were allowed in. We were not allowed to take anything into the ward and had to be gowned and wear a mask and cap and had to thoroughly wash our hand with a special preparation when we left the ward. They said it had been closed because of Norovirus. Yes, the young man who was sick had brought it into the ward. The other two surgeries were cancelled, they could not take them down to the theatre because they had identified the fact that norovirus was in the ward. The ward was closed for five days and they said my son was lucky he went to theatre before they knew it was present. He and the other lad had been in hospital for a week prior to the operation. They both came in together on the same day, having their accidents only an hour apart. I do not know why they waited a week to operate though.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> If you can get the picture from a laptop/computer then I believe so. It might be a different app, though. From a computer you should be able to resize a JPEG to fit the criteria. I just use "paint" to resize things.
> 
> Some of it has been a good kind of busy, others not so much. Thanks! I'm so glad the wedding went well and that they will be having a vow renewal and mega reception. I think that is actually the way to do it. My new thing is people will get a first anniversary present, just a card on their wedding. I have just seen too many marriages fall apart (including my own years ago) that people spent time and money purchasing a gift that was essentially wasted or fodder for an argument. They make it to one year, they get a present. Fortunately, I have only been to family's weddings, so they have to accept me for who I am and my beliefs. Right? Plus, the people who have gotten married already had everything they needed and got most of what they wanted from other people. I may reconsider my position if I gent to a wedding of someone who is not as fortunate.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the advice on the pics. I actually have no idea what you're talking about. But I will ask my hubby.

I have no problem waiting for the recipes. I rarely eat soup in the summer anyway. It seems like there were two recipes but I can't remember now but definitely the tortilla soup. Mmmmm!

I haven't gotten over to Trader Joes yet. It seems I am either doing too much or recovering from doing too much. Since my mil moved to town, I spend at least 20 hours a week dealing with her needs and phone calls. Its exhausting! One day last week, I took her to the doctor and Walmart (for 10 or 12 things). It took SIX hours! We had a short lunch in between but everything takes forever to get done.

I'm also working on the harvest from my garden, blanching, peeling, slicing, freezing, canning and dehydrating. So much work! Today, I managed to clean my house and tomorrow, I get to watch Max, my grandson. While it won't be relaxing, it'll be fun!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, except I probably would have broken my neck on the walls or door in the tiny stall.
> 
> The custodian said that some of the teachers left the place disgusting! He was a great guy - I believed him.


My friend owned a restaurant. She said that the women's restroom was always a hundred times worse than the men's. I think it's because the men's hardly gets used. They never have to go.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for the advice on the pics. I actually have no idea what you're talking about. But I will ask my hubby.
> 
> I have no problem waiting for the recipes. I rarely eat soup in the summer anyway. It seems like there were two recipes but I can't remember now but definitely the tortilla soup. Mmmmm!
> 
> ...


Wow! You have so much on your plate, KFN. Max will cheer you up! Grandkids are pure sunshine. I have to can tomatoes and freeze green beans, and make pesto to freeze tomorrow. Hopefully this rain and humidity blows over tonight. I don't want to have to harvest in the rain.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> When my son was in hospital awaiting surgery after his MVA his ward was closed due to norovirus. The night before the operation they moved someone into the bed opposite his and this young male was being violently sick. It was a surgery ward with three patients having operations in the morning. My son and another young lad, both MVA, both suffering from the same injuries, shattered pelvis requiring surgery and pinning and another elderly man who needed surgery for a broken leg. They should have isolated the sick young man in a ward of his own. I got up and closed the curtains around my son's bed. He was the first down to the surgery the next morning, going down to surgery about 7.00 am. He said when he woke up after the surgery he found himself projectile vomiting. The surgery was more complicated and took longer than expected and he spent over six hours in recovery before they brought him back to the ward. When I visited him that evening, they would not let me see him before that, the ward was closed and only close relative were allowed in. We were not allowed to take anything into the ward and had to be gowned and wear a mask and cap and had to thoroughly wash our hand with a special preparation when we left the ward. They said it had been closed because of Norovirus. Yes, the young man who was sick had brought it into the ward. The other two surgeries were cancelled, they could not take them down to the theatre because they had identified the fact that norovirus was in the ward. The ward was closed for five days and they said my son was lucky he went to theatre before they knew it was present. He and the other lad had been in hospital for a week prior to the operation. They both came in together on the same day, having their accidents only an hour apart. I do not know why they waited a week to operate though.


What is MVA? You said you're son was vomiting. Did he get the norovirus or was it just from anesthesia?

I have seen the effects of norovirus. I never want to have it! Horrible! Its extremely contagious as well. Out of 14 members of my family, I'm the only one who didn't get it. IMO, what I had to clean up was worse than having the virus!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Night all. Another day and three more hats done for the click for babies project. Have to take pics before we send them off.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Night all. Another day and three more hats done for the click for babies project. Have to take pics before we send them off.


Good night, Marilyn


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> You do have your hands full - and a lot of patience. I'm sure you'll never regret it.


Thanks, Bonnie. I definitely have my moments, though. Especially lately. Today I had granny sort through her bathroom drawers (I took them out and put them on her bed) while I did a major cleaning. Of course as soon as I was done, it seemed to get dirty again. Isn't that always how it is? Just now I made granny and dh a fruit salad. I cut the skin off some fruit and remove seeds so granny can chew it. I know that no one else thinks of this. love doing these kinds of things.

I always try to have something for granny to do, whether it's folding towels, using the swiffer, helping change the sheets, helping "chop" veggies in the food processor, etc. it keeps her mind active and OUT of trouble. I found that if I'm cleaning or cooking and she is not sufficiently occupied, she will start to do something like climb on ladders and try to pull the bottom item off a crowded top shelf. Oy! We try to stay busy. Luckily granny doesn't go too long before she gets bored or tired and wants to watch tv or read. Then I set her up with cranberry juice (not cocktail) or water and usually a snack, and get back to work. As long as I don't hear the recliner pop back up I know I'm good.

Thanks for letting me share. I have been through an awful lot lately and it seems like it will never end. Once it looks like I'm getting through one thing, something else presents itself. I guess it's one of the not fun things about being an adult, huh? I tell people I love being an adult bc you can eat whatever you want whenever and no one can tell you "no". It is very rewarding to take care of a home and family, though. I just had no preparation. Granny had her stroke and a few months later I moved in to help out. I never would have moved in with dh before we got married otherwise. A year later we were married. I do not regret my decision to help out with granny one bit, no matter how much she snaps at me or complains about me to her daughters. I may regret getting married from time to time, though! Jk!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! You have so much on your plate, KFN. Max will cheer you up! Grandkids are pure sunshine. I have to can tomatoes and freeze green beans, and make pesto to freeze tomorrow. Hopefully this rain and humidity blows over tonight. I don't want to have to harvest in the rain.


Oh! I've never frozen pesto before. I've never thought of it. I wish you'd share your recipe... hint, hint. :lol:

I've got tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, potatoes, carrots and green beans. All I have left are the potatoes and carrots. But I will have more later.

Oh, and Max will definitely cheer me up! We have so much fun! Everyone thinks he's a terror but he's a perfect angel for grandma.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I get a package of about 20 shot glasses at the dollar store. I use them for serving tiny portions I don't want to spread on a plate, such as horseradish sauce. They are also my portion control for snacks like nuts or M & Ms so I can enjoy but not overdo.
> 
> My toothbrush is the OralB cheapie that Bed Bath had on sale for under $20 a few years ago. I get a 6 pack of replacement brushes at BJ's. My dentist says I have better control over plaque and massaging my gums since I got it. My mother had a Sonicare, but the replacement brushes for it are so expensive as to put me in shock.


Good to know, thanks!! I will look the next time I go.

I love my pulsar and they sell pack at costco for pretty cheap. There is a set of rubber angled bristles on it so I, too, get great gum massage and plaque removal. I can definitely tell the difference when I have to use another toothbrush.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Night all. Another day and three more hats done for the click for babies project. Have to take pics before we send them off.


Cool! What's your goal?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> When my son was in hospital awaiting surgery after his MVA his ward was closed due to norovirus. The night before the operation they moved someone into the bed opposite his and this young male was being violently sick. It was a surgery ward with three patients having operations in the morning. My son and another young lad, both MVA, both suffering from the same injuries, shattered pelvis requiring surgery and pinning and another elderly man who needed surgery for a broken leg. They should have isolated the sick young man in a ward of his own. I got up and closed the curtains around my son's bed. He was the first down to the surgery the next morning, going down to surgery about 7.00 am. He said when he woke up after the surgery he found himself projectile vomiting. The surgery was more complicated and took longer than expected and he spent over six hours in recovery before they brought him back to the ward. When I visited him that evening, they would not let me see him before that, the ward was closed and only close relative were allowed in. We were not allowed to take anything into the ward and had to be gowned and wear a mask and cap and had to thoroughly wash our hand with a special preparation when we left the ward. They said it had been closed because of Norovirus. Yes, the young man who was sick had brought it into the ward. The other two surgeries were cancelled, they could not take them down to the theatre because they had identified the fact that norovirus was in the ward. The ward was closed for five days and they said my son was lucky he went to theatre before they knew it was present. He and the other lad had been in hospital for a week prior to the operation. They both came in together on the same day, having their accidents only an hour apart. I do not know why they waited a week to operate though.


You must have been so worried about him.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for the advice on the pics. I actually have no idea what you're talking about. But I will ask my hubby.
> 
> I have no problem waiting for the recipes. I rarely eat soup in the summer anyway. It seems like there were two recipes but I can't remember now but definitely the tortilla soup. Mmmmm!
> 
> ...


I know exactly what you mean - doing too much or recovering from doing too much. This is my second week "off." I told the family after being busy like crazy since last November, that I was taking three weeks in August off. I still pick up two grandkids after school and have them and their parents for dinner once a week, but they count on me for that. Other than that - no visiting, no trips. I'm still busy - but with my projects and lunching with friends and setting my own schedule - so it's good. I really needed a break - sounds like it's your turn next!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Night all. Another day and three more hats done for the click for babies project. Have to take pics before we send them off.


So nice of you to knit those hats. Sleep well!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, Bonnie. I definitely have my moments, though. Especially lately. Today I had granny sort through her bathroom drawers (I took them out and put them on her bed) while I did a major cleaning. Of course as soon as I was done, it seemed to get dirty again. Isn't that always how it is? Just now I made granny and dh a fruit salad. I cut the skin off some fruit and remove seeds so granny can chew it. I know that no one else thinks of this. love doing these kinds of things.
> 
> I always try to have something for granny to do, whether it's folding towels, using the swiffer, helping change the sheets, helping "chop" veggies in the food processor, etc. it keeps her mind active and OUT of trouble. I found that if I'm cleaning or cooking and she is not sufficiently occupied, she will start to do something like climb on ladders and try to pull the bottom item off a crowded top shelf. Oy! We try to stay busy. Luckily granny doesn't go too long before she gets bored or tired and wants to watch tv or read. Then I set her up with cranberry juice (not cocktail) or water and usually a snack, and get back to work. As long as I don't hear the recliner pop back up I know I'm good.
> 
> Thanks for letting me share. I have been through an awful lot lately and it seems like it will never end. Once it looks like I'm getting through one thing, something else presents itself. I guess it's one of the not fun things about being an adult, huh? I tell people I love being an adult bc you can eat whatever you want whenever and no one can tell you "no". It is very rewarding to take care of a home and family, though. I just had no preparation. Granny had her stroke and a few months later I moved in to help out. I never would have moved in with dh before we got married otherwise. A year later we were married. I do not regret my decision to help out with granny one bit, no matter how much she snaps at me or complains about me to her daughters. I may regret getting married from time to time, though! Jk!!


Hang in there! You're doing a great thing for her - and you put so much thought and planning into it. She's very lucky.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> So nice of you to knit those hats. Sleep well!


Bonnie, I had so much fun today! I wasn't on KP last night and today when I had a few minutes I was reading last night's germ and bathroom and toilet flushing conversation. I was laughing so hard! I liked the story of you and your new, cool skirt trying to reach the handle for the big flush! You guys were all drinking the crazy juice last night!
Or maybe it was this morning?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Good to know, thanks!! I will look the next time I go.
> 
> I love my pulsar and they sell pack at costco for pretty cheap. There is a set of rubber angled bristles on it so I, too, get great gum massage and plaque removal. I can definitely tell the difference when I have to use another toothbrush.


interesting about the toothbrushes. I think I'll try the little glasses for candy snacks. I have a terrible sweet tooth - sometimes I ask myself if I'm really still five years old! Must I have candy EVERY day? Grow up, Bonnie!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> interesting about the toothbrushes. I think I'll try the little glasses for candy snacks. I have a terrible sweet tooth - sometimes I ask myself if I'm really still five years old! Must I have candy EVERY day? Grow up, Bonnie!


Have a cookie


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Bonnie, I had so much fun today! I wasn't on KP last night and today when I had a few minutes I was reading last night's germ and bathroom and toilet flushing conversation. I was laughing so hard! I liked the story of you and your new, cool skirt trying to reach the handle for the big flush! You guys were all drinking the crazy juice last night!
> Or maybe it was this morning?


It was last night - and waaay too late! Glad you enjoyed it - it was crazy. And fun!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, Bonnie. I definitely have my moments, though. Especially lately. Today I had granny sort through her bathroom drawers (I took them out and put them on her bed) while I did a major cleaning. Of course as soon as I was done, it seemed to get dirty again. Isn't that always how it is? Just now I made granny and dh a fruit salad.  I cut the skin off some fruit and remove seeds so granny can chew it. I know that no one else thinks of this. love doing these kinds of things.
> 
> I always try to have something for granny to do, whether it's folding towels, using the swiffer, helping change the sheets, helping "chop" veggies in the food processor, etc. it keeps her mind active and OUT of trouble. I found that if I'm cleaning or cooking and she is not sufficiently occupied, she will start to do something like climb on ladders and try to pull the bottom item off a crowded top shelf. Oy! We try to stay busy. Luckily granny doesn't go too long before she gets bored or tired and wants to watch tv or read. Then I set her up with cranberry juice (not cocktail) or water and usually a snack, and get back to work. As long as I don't hear the recliner pop back up I know I'm good.
> 
> Thanks for letting me share. I have been through an awful lot lately and it seems like it will never end. Once it looks like I'm getting through one thing, something else presents itself. I guess it's one of the not fun things about being an adult, huh? I tell people I love being an adult bc you can eat whatever you want whenever and no one can tell you "no". It is very rewarding to take care of a home and family, though. I just had no preparation. Granny had her stroke and a few months later I moved in to help out. I never would have moved in with dh before we got married otherwise. A year later we were married. I do not regret my decision to help out with granny one bit, no matter how much she snaps at me or complains about me to her daughters. I may regret getting married from time to time, though! Jk!!


Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


You need to do something nice for yourself. Like go buy yourself something new!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Bonnie, I had so much fun today! I wasn't on KP last night and today when I had a few minutes I was reading last night's germ and bathroom and toilet flushing conversation. I was laughing so hard! I liked the story of you and your new, cool skirt trying to reach the handle for the big flush! You guys were all drinking the crazy juice last night!
> Or maybe it was this morning?


It was more fun than I've had in months!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


I had a good friend with a similar situation - except her MIL hated her - and came to live with her! Nightmare scenario. It sounds like she's very good at organizing and delegating. Maybe she herself should find someone to clean - that would be a good project.

I'm sorry it's getting to you. Maybe her physical therapist (?) could give her some household tasks that would be good for her. ??? Just a thought. At least you're not alone in your feelings.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It was more fun than I've had in months!


It was fun! When I woke up this morning, I thought, "Did I really write about self-flushing toilets?!"


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Have a cookie


Thank you. If I do, it will be my third.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I had a good friend with a similar situation - except her MIL hated her - and came to live with her! Nightmare scenario. It sounds like she's very good at organizing and delegating. Maybe she herself should find someone to clean - that would be a good project.
> 
> I'm sorry it's getting to you. Maybe her physical therapist (?) could give her some household tasks that would be good for her. ??? Just a thought. At least you're not alone in your feelings.


I don't think my mil hates me but if she doesn't get her way, she can be very mean (but only with me). She's sweet as syrup when anyone else is around. She will never live with me, even though she thinks she will. In my house, she complains about everything. She thinks I should use everything she uses and should do everything like she does it. She even tries to tell me how to scramble eggs! And she NEVER stops talking! I'm not exaggerating! You cannot read, watch TV or have a conversation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> It was fun! When I woke up this morning, I thought, "Did I really write about self-flushing toilets?!"


I woke up laughing. My hubby had to ask what was so funny.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for the advice on the pics. I actually have no idea what you're talking about. But I will ask my hubby.
> 
> I have no problem waiting for the recipes. I rarely eat soup in the summer anyway. It seems like there were two recipes but I can't remember now but definitely the tortilla soup. Mmmmm!
> 
> ...


OMG, there's actually someone less tech-savvy than me?! Lol! I only know that a JPEG is a picture, which is probably incorrect. Beyond that I'm lucky I can turn anything on! Unfortunately, my hubby is as inept at computers as I am. You should have seen us on our first date trying to set up my TiVo! My sis was standing there laughing at us the entire time, my dad would walk by and shake his head. I have often asked dh why it is he stayed with me after that. I still haven't gotten a straight answer.

I hear what your saying re doing or recovering. I have not stopped since I moved in here. Whenever someone "took" granny for a few days or week, we play catch up, but never quite can actually catch up. That's one reason we haven't even started planning a honeymoon. We feel we need to have more done before we can go away that long. Unfortunately, for the past few months, we have had no one who could "relieve" us for even a few days. Wait, no, we did drive granny 3-4 hours away (round trip) so she could see her daughter and grand kids. We drove her there and picked her up after 2 days. So we lost time and didn't have the time to accomplish much. Dh's cousins thought they were giving me time off to relax... Grrrr.

We hardly get to the market as well. That's why I love costco. We can't get everything there, but enough stuff that if I don't have time to cook, there's something in the freezer. We love their lasagna, which dh forgot to get the other day when he went. Double grr. Sometimes we run out (like recently) and have to get take out. I hate that, but if we don't have time we don't have time. Dh will pick up bread, eggs, almond milk, ice cream (which it seems granny is always running out of), lunch meat, produce, etc. on his way home from work if granny is out and we don't have time to do a big shopping trip.

I know what you mean about things taking so long. I know this might sound mean, but it's why I won't go to the market with granny unless we are going fast after a doctors appointment (my Step SIL is a sweetheart and makes sure she can be of help). I have very little patience shopping as it is. I like to do it fast, which I can never get through fast enough. I don't need to be there for six hours, which I know is how long it would take. We do take granny out and she will go with us to Home Depot or other places on occasion if it's not for a lot of things, but she can't walk around too much.

Sounds like you have enough to keep you busy! I did not do too much this year bc of the draught and how busy I have gotten. We have pole beans going up and across the laundry line, strawberries and blueberries (the blackberries are in primo and season), avocados, melons, and tomatoes, a lot of that is what came up from the worm compost we had emptied into the raised bed. I may do carrots and onions in the fall. I'd like to do some winter squash to go up the trellises I had the cantaloupe on last year. We shall see. Luckily, I have the setup to start seeds and get them to grow very quickly. I also have a greenhouse type of thing, so if it actually DOES get cold this winter, I can have things in there.

Isn't nature wonderful? That's is why I am HER champion!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> interesting about the toothbrushes. I think I'll try the little glasses for candy snacks. I have a terrible sweet tooth - sometimes I ask myself if I'm really still five years old! Must I have candy EVERY day? Grow up, Bonnie!


You and my husband. My problem is chips and nuts. I go through candy cravings but it never lasts long. Most of my candy ends up getting stale.

OMG it was so funny! I get up to make dh tea on my bday (like I do every day) to find a huge bag of sour patch kids and peanut butter M&ms. My faves! But I quickly figured out that sour patch kids were a destruction from the fact that dh would go through the peanut butter M&ms as soon as they were opened. Lol!! And he did!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What is MVA? You said you're son was vomiting. Did he get the norovirus or was it just from anesthesia?
> 
> I have seen the effects of norovirus. I never want to have it! Horrible! Its extremely contagious as well. Out of 14 members of my family, I'm the only one who didn't get it. IMO, what I had to clean up was worse than having the virus!


MVA is a motor vehicle accident. He was T Boned coming off the Roe Highway at a notorious site for accidents. They have now installed traffic lights. They modified the intersection a few weeks after his accident. He said he thought the vomiting was from the anaesthetic but with norovirus in the ward I think it might have been from the virus. The other people in the ward came down with the virus. My son was sick for a few days but not as sick as the others in the ward. The other guy who needed the same surgery as my son had his cancelled because they said when he was well enough to have the surgery the bones were too sticky to operate. He spent the next three months flat on his back in hospital, whereas my son only spent 8 weeks in hospital and only 7 weeks not being allowed to sit up. They both ended up in the same ward in the rehabilitation hospital in Shenton Park after being transferred from the Royal Perth Hospital. They were in adjoining beds in RPH and in adjoining beds in Shenton Park although they were transferred on different days.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> MVA is a motor vehicle accident. He was T Boned coming off the Roe Highway at a notorious site for accidents. They have now installed traffic lights. They modified the intersection a few weeks after his accident. He said he thought the vomiting was from the anaesthetic but with norovirus in the ward I think it might have been from the virus. The other people in the ward came down with the virus. My son was sick for a few days but not as sick as the others in the ward. The other guy who needed the same surgery as my son had his cancelled because they said when he was well enough to have the surgery the bones were too sticky to operate. He spent the next three months flat on his back in hospital, whereas my son only spent 8 weeks in hospital and only 7 weeks not being allowed to sit up. They both ended up in the same ward in the rehabilitation hospital in Shenton Park after being transferred from the Royal Perth Hospital. They were in adjoining beds in RPH and in adjoining beds in Shenton Park although they were transferred on different days.


Oh my gosh! That's awful! Has he made a full recovery? If he had norovirus, you'd know it. I won't gross everybody out with details. Just suffice it to say, he probably didn't have it. It is unmistakable. It sure was a good thing that his surgery wasn't delayed. And I hope that he's made a full recovery. My friend's son was in a car accident and he broke his neck and his jaw. He nearly died several times and the doctors thought he would be a quadriplegic. But he's made a remarkable recovery. He has limited use of his left side, similar to my son's limited use of his right side (he has Cerebral Palsy).


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think my mil hates me but if she doesn't get her way, she can be very mean (but only with me). She's sweet as syrup when anyone else is around. She will never live with me, even though she thinks she will. In my house, she complains about everything. She thinks I should use everything she uses and should do everything like she does it. She even tries to tell me how to scramble eggs! And she NEVER stops talking! I'm not exaggerating! You cannot read, watch TV or have a conversation.


That's got to be hard. I hope I don't get like that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I woke up laughing. My hubby had to ask what was so funny.


Perfect! What better way to wake up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same here locally. I like it a lot.



EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps I am lucky in this respect. The bathroom is a separate room from the toilet. The bathroom only contains the shower cubicle, the bath and the handbasin. No chance of that happening to my toothbrush. Just an aside, it always amuses me when the mormon missionaries pay a visit and ask if they can use the bathroom and I reply "sure, do you wish to wash your hands?" and show them the bathroom. Mean I know, but I enjoy the puzzled looks when they cannot see the toilet. I then tell them that we 'use the toilet' over here, we use the bathroom to take a bath or a shower. Ensuites will contain a toilet but most houses have a separate toilet, containing just the toilet.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> Eve, Thank you for your response to this dialogue. I do not believe that some posters were in jest. From what I have seen around me people are obsessed with germs. You have given a very good outline of why we need germs. To try to eliminate them only makes the ones that survive stronger; hence, the superbug.
> 
> It was quite a revolution in the 50s when antibiotics were invented. But, oh, look at the chaos they have caused. People take antibiotics for the least little thing, and the consequence is that we need stronger and stronger antibiotics in order to treat what years ago would have been an inconsequential problem.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> OMG, there's actually someone less tech-savvy than me?! Lol! I only know that a JPEG is a picture, which is probably incorrect. Beyond that I'm lucky I can turn anything on! Unfortunately, my hubby is as inept at computers as I am. You should have seen us on our first date trying to set up my TiVo! My sis was standing there laughing at us the entire time, my dad would walk by and shake his head. I have often asked dh why it is he stayed with me after that. I still haven't gotten a straight answer.
> 
> I hear what your saying re doing or recovering. I have not stopped since I moved in here. Whenever someone "took" granny for a few days or week, we play catch up, but never quite can actually catch up. That's one reason we haven't even started planning a honeymoon. We feel we need to have more done before we can go away that long. Unfortunately, for the past few months, we have had no one who could "relieve" us for even a few days. Wait, no, we did drive granny 3-4 hours away (round trip) so she could see her daughter and grand kids. We drove her there and picked her up after 2 days. So we lost time and didn't have the time to accomplish much. Dh's cousins thought they were giving me time off to relax... Grrrr.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> We do what we think is of benefit to us but never go overboard just do not like unclean lemons in our Ice Tea, wash our hands often and exchange our Toothbrushes frequently. We do not have an army of "killers" to spray everything in sight. Our Ancestors lived a long life and never bothered with washing a Carrot for example before eating it, they pulled it out of the ground, wiped it with their dirty hands and ate it. Let's not make us sick worrying about getting sick. Just keep everything reasonably clean.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> You and my husband. My problem is chips and nuts. I go through candy cravings but it never lasts long. Most of my candy ends up getting stale.
> 
> OMG it was so funny! I get up to make dh tea on my bday (like I do every day) to find a huge bag of sour patch kids and peanut butter M&ms. My faves! But I quickly figured out that sour patch kids were a destruction from the fact that dh would go through the peanut butter M&ms as soon as they were opened. Lol!! And he did!


 :lol:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's still very beautiful. You should visit some winter.



bonbf3 said:


> I didn't know that. I have dreams of going back. I'm sure it's different now.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We've been here for 20+ years so we've taken road trips all over the state....well known places and surprises. Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Sedona, Tucson, Jerome & Bisbee (old mining towns), Tombstone, Senoita (wine country,) Patagonia (bird migration sanctuary,) Painted Desert, Oatman (deserted mine where the burros have managed to thrive. They direct traffic for carrots now....and you better pay off.) That's just a few.

Nine months out of the year the weather is glorious. The rest of the time we use air conditioning like the rest of the country uses heat in winter.



bonbf3 said:


> Oh, you live in the desert. I'll bet you have some inspiring sights.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> We've been here for 20+ years so we've taken road trips all over the state....well known places and surprises. Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Sedona, Tucson, Jerome & Bisbee (old mining towns), Tombstone, Senoita (wine country,) Patagonia (bird migration sanctuary,) Painted Desert, Oatman (deserted mine where the burros have managed to thrive. They direct traffic for carrots now....and you better pay off.) That's just a few.
> 
> Nine months out of the year the weather is glorious. The rest of the time we use air conditioning like the rest of the country uses heat in winter.


Have you ever visited Bullhead City or Oatman, dame?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> We've been here for 20+ years so we've taken road trips all over the state....well known places and surprises. Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Sedona, Tucson, Jerome & Bisbee (old mining towns), Tombstone, Senoita (wine country,) Patagonia (bird migration sanctuary,) Painted Desert, Oatman (deserted mine where the burros have managed to thrive. They direct traffic for carrots now....and you better pay off.) That's just a few.
> 
> Nine months out of the year the weather is glorious. The rest of the time we use air conditioning like the rest of the country uses heat in winter.


DP


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My cat's name is Ethel Mertz.



MarilynKnits said:


> Flip a coin to see who's Lucy and who's Ethel.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always found it impossible to change anyone's habits after 'a certain age.' My Mom always used the smallest amount of water and detergent to wash floors. The water would be black in just a minute and she'd keep going.

Grannie sounds similar. Bless you for what you do for her , but remember to be kind to you too.



Natureschampion said:


> I'm with both of you. In moderation, germs are good. I hardly ever got sick as a child and as an adult. We were taught to wash our hands after using the restroom or something else that required handling loads of germs (like using the pooper scooper, gardening, etc.) and before eating or handling food.
> 
> You know, Dr Stanley Van Den Noort from UCI, who was (g-d rest his kind and generous soul) one of the leading experts on multiple sclerosis (literally wrote the book on it), told me that MS is believed to be caused by not enough exposure to pathogens. Apparently it is more prevalent in over sanitized cultures, such as ours. I think it was dame who mentioned the polio thing, it's like that. So I guess not enough exposure to germs can leave us more susceptible to more harmful germs and other pathogens, but it can also destroy our immune system to the point where our body, even a seemingly unrelated part like the myelin sheath (insulation that turns into Swiss cheese is the cause of MS symptoms) around our neurons, cannot function properly.
> 
> My house is clean, too. I use the wipes to clean up small messes or wipe down in the kitchen, bathroom, outside, etc. I carry purel sometimes but only bc I have to put drops in my eyes every so often. The problem is, just soap and water isn't going to get some of the really bad germs that are found on the floor, and granny uses the dish towels and dish sponge (which I admittedly do put in the microwave for 30 seconds after a certain point) to clean the floors, and sometimes uses nothing at all for detergent. The germs that the sponge and towel pick up will not be ridden by dish or hand soap. The worst part is she uses them and puts them back without telling me, so I fear I have used them unknowingly on the dishes! Oh well, nothing has happened (yet), but I am afraid of granny getting an infection she can't come back from. She also thinks just rinsing things of with water is washing them. Boy, do I have my hands full!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good night Marilyn. Sleep well.



MarilynKnits said:


> Night all. Another day and three more hats done for the click for babies project. Have to take pics before we send them off.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She'll eventually consider assisted living if she doesn't manage to get it for free from the family.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I adore Oatman and the burros. I'm not familiar with Bullhead City. Tell me about it.



BrattyPatty said:


> Have you ever visited Bullhead City or Oatman, dame?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


I am lucky in many ways, yes. But trust me, it's not all peaches and cream. Many times when she tries to do things, it ends up making a bigger mess for me. I am responsible for everything you listed that your mil wants help with. Dh usually gets the mail, though, the mail is in a locked mailbox and I can't get it in front of granny bc she'll wonder why I have a key and she doesn't. She will either lose it or give it to someone who might steal our mail (we had to change the mailbox bc fil was stealing bank statements and things from granny. His gf stole her identity and opened up credit cards in her name. This is granny's EX son in law, mind you). She has lost who knows how many sets of keys.

Granny would never think of paying someone to do work around the house-cook, clean, now the lawns, trim the many trees, etc. dh has been taking care of things far too long, and now she has me as well. She even offers my "services" to other people! Right now I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to get the tiny house ready for six more people. I know I will have more work when they leave, bc whenever granny's kids/grand kids visit they never clean up after themselves. Just once I'd like them to display how I was raised, and how dh is (I don't know it's how he was raised bc he is the only one in his family with manners) that when you stay at someone's house, you at least offer to wash your bed linens and towels. Or even wash their own dishes or bring their dishes to the sink. There was one time dh's aunt was here after going on a cruise with granny. They get home and of course there is a pile of laundry on granny's floor. I go in and hear the washer running continuously, however granny's pile of clothes isn't shrinking. This woman was using granny's washer and dryer, granny's detergent, water, gas and electricity, granny PAID for her to go on the cruise, but she CANT help with granny's laundry!! Can you believe that? It turns out she also didn't monitor granny's meds or BP on the cruise and let granny take her pills whenever she felt like it in whatever order. Oy vey!

The worst part is granny blames me for everything, snaps at me a lot, and complains (lies) about me to her kids. Her kids don't think of where these things are coming from and think what she says actually happened. It's quite frustrating.

I get what you're saying about the tip thing. For a long time it was hard to get the right amount for granny's groceries from her bc she just couldn't understand that groceries have gotten so expensive. She had/has been to the market, but it think there was a mental block or something when we told her how much it was. On the other hand, she constantly gives her granddaughter money for groceries and gas, even though this woman can only be bothered to visit when she wants money.

We haven't had a vacation together in almost 2 years. This has been very hard. We have just been too busy since granny had her stroke. Mil (who is usually the only person we get a modicum of help from) is always gone, usually for weeks at a time. This time it's almost 5 months. We can't even go away five days. We can't even go out one night without having to call granny to take her meds (we put them in a place and tell her where it is when it's time to take them) or something like that.

I'm sorry your life is a mess. I definitely feel for you. I am going insane myself right now. I have eight to nine alarms going off between 630 am and 1100 PM. I hear alarms in my sleep! And none of them are for me!! I have always hated alarms. Hopefully soon both of us can sort things out and get to a more comfortable and less hectic place.

Sorry to go on. I really needed to vent. Thanks for the opportunity!

Good luck!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I always found it impossible to change anyone's habits after 'a certain age.' My Mom always used the smallest amount of water and detergent to wash floors. The water would be black in just a minute and she'd keep going.
> 
> Grannie sounds similar. Bless you for what you do for her , but remember to be kind to you too.


Yes, you are totally right. According to dh, granny has always been like this. I won't go into details of how he has described the messes she made in the bathroom long before she had the stroke. She thinks a mop doesn't work if the ground is still dirty. She doesn't sweep or dust first, just puts water on the floor. I had to tell her this just makes the dust settle into the pores and grain of the wood and moves it around. We have given up trying to tell her that if she wants the dishes she washes to get clean, she has to do more than rub it with water and her finger. Now I have to inspect every dish as I put it away or take them out.

Thank you, dame. Your words are always so encouraging. How do I be kind to me? Any suggestions? Anyone?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Yes, you are totally right. According to dh, granny has always been like this. I won't go into details of how he has described the messes she made in the bathroom long before she had the stroke. She thinks a mop doesn't work if the ground is still dirty. She doesn't sweep or dust first, just puts water on the floor. I had to tell her this just makes the dust settle into the pores and grain of the wood and moves it around. We have given up trying to tell her that if she wants the dishes she washes to get clean, she has to do more than rub it with water and her finger. Now I have to inspect every dish as I put it away or take them out.
> 
> Thank you, dame. Your words are always so encouraging. How do I be kind to me? Any suggestions? Anyone?


limit your time with granny or visit her when her housecleaning is done. Go for tea. Or don't try to change her. What she does is not so important. Breathe and float.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> limit your time with granny or visit her when her housecleaning is done. Go for tea. Or don't try to change her. What she does is not so important. Breathe and float.


I don't know how to limit my time with granny. I am responsible for her health and well being. In between things I'll sit by myself and knit, or come on here. It's just been nonstop and it is taking it's toll. Usually she will go to her daughters for a couple days or a week each month. That sometimes helps.

I wish I could go somewhere when I get frustrated like dh does. Not being able to drive, especially in my area, makes that impossible. My sibs love a little too far to pick me up for a little while.

I would never try to change granny. That doesn't mean I don't get frustrated when I have more and more work piling on top of me and get little to no appreciation. I know I don't do it for the appreciation or praise, but a little recognition would be nice once in a while. Wait, when did I become a mother? Lol!!

I am worried that granny will say the wrong thing to the wrong person and social services or something will be called. She tells people we don't buy her food or TP, even if we have a fully stocked fridge and whatnot. She tells them that I yell at her and her dog, which has never happened. She also tells them I make her feel stupid when I very kindly and patiently try to get her to not do something that could injure her so badly she can't come back from it. These things are important.

I would breathe and float, but I am afraid I have no time and forgotten how. Would you retrace me, mama sloth?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> We've been here for 20+ years so we've taken road trips all over the state....well known places and surprises. Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Sedona, Tucson, Jerome & Bisbee (old mining towns), Tombstone, Senoita (wine country,) Patagonia (bird migration sanctuary,) Painted Desert, Oatman (deserted mine where the burros have managed to thrive. They direct traffic for carrots now....and you better pay off.) That's just a few.
> 
> Nine months out of the year the weather is glorious. The rest of the time we use air conditioning like the rest of the country uses heat in winter.


We love Arizona! We've been there twice. We were planning on going down to the Sedonna area again. There's more exploring we'd like to do. But there's been too much going on this summer. The last time we were down there we had our daughter with us and then our son, his wife and her mother and neice went with us, in a separate car. We had such a good time. All but us two old ladies climbed Cathedral Rock. That was cool! All of us hiked partway down the Grand Canyon. There are so many beautiful things to see, I'm sure I'll never see them all.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> My cat's name is Ethel Mertz.


 :thumbup: Love it!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> She'll eventually consider assisted living if she doesn't manage to get it for free from the family.


I hope you're right.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A few suggestions come to mind. IMO others in the family have come to expect too much of you. It is wonderful that you have done so much, but it is wrong for them to expect it. You might benefit from talking to a professional with experience dealing with the elderly. Perhaps someone on KP will be able to point you in the right direction.

You need to find a way to take some time off. Right now it sounds like you're 24/7. Take the afternoon off and take your knitting to the library or church pew. The idea is to have regular time alone to recharge.



Natureschampion said:


> Yes, you are totally right. According to dh, granny has always been like this. I won't go into details of how he has described the messes she made in the bathroom long before she had the stroke. She thinks a mop doesn't work if the ground is still dirty. She doesn't sweep or dust first, just puts water on the floor. I had to tell her this just makes the dust settle into the pores and grain of the wood and moves it around. We have given up trying to tell her that if she wants the dishes she washes to get clean, she has to do more than rub it with water and her finger. Now I have to inspect every dish as I put it away or take them out.
> 
> Thank you, dame. Your words are always so encouraging. How do I be kind to me? Any suggestions? Anyone?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You sound like you had fun. Do it again when you can.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We love Arizona! We've been there twice. We were planning on going down to the Sedonna area again. There's more exploring we'd like to do. But there's been too much going on this summer. The last time we were down there we had our daughter with us and then our son, his wife and her mother and neice went with us, in a separate car. We had such a good time. All but us two old ladies climbed Cathedral Rock. That was cool! All of us hiked partway down the Grand Canyon. There are so many beautiful things to see, I'm sure I'll never see them all.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I am lucky in many ways, yes. But trust me, it's not all peaches and cream. Many times when she tries to do things, it ends up making a bigger mess for me. I am responsible for everything you listed that your mil wants help with. Dh usually gets the mail, though, the mail is in a locked mailbox and I can't get it in front of granny bc she'll wonder why I have a key and she doesn't. She will either lose it or give it to someone who might steal our mail (we had to change the mailbox bc fil was stealing bank statements and things from granny. His gf stole her identity and opened up credit cards in her name. This is granny's EX son in law, mind you). She has lost who knows how many sets of keys.
> 
> Granny would never think of paying someone to do work around the house-cook, clean, now the lawns, trim the many trees, etc. dh has been taking care of things far too long, and now she has me as well. She even offers my "services" to other people! Right now I am running around like a chicken with my head cut off trying to get the tiny house ready for six more people. I know I will have more work when they leave, bc whenever granny's kids/grand kids visit they never clean up after themselves. Just once I'd like them to display how I was raised, and how dh is (I don't know it's how he was raised bc he is the only one in his family with manners) that when you stay at someone's house, you at least offer to wash your bed linens and towels. Or even wash their own dishes or bring their dishes to the sink. There was one time dh's aunt was here after going on a cruise with granny. They get home and of course there is a pile of laundry on granny's floor. I go in and hear the washer running continuously, however granny's pile of clothes isn't shrinking. This woman was using granny's washer and dryer, granny's detergent, water, gas and electricity, granny PAID for her to go on the cruise, but she CANT help with granny's laundry!! Can you believe that? It turns out she also didn't monitor granny's meds or BP on the cruise and let granny take her pills whenever she felt like it in whatever order. Oy vey!
> 
> ...


Vent away! It helps to have a release! Our situations are similar. I hope that things improve soon, for both of us. Many of the things you brought up, I deal with also. We can go insane together.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Yes, you are totally right. According to dh, granny has always been like this. I won't go into details of how he has described the messes she made in the bathroom long before she had the stroke. She thinks a mop doesn't work if the ground is still dirty. She doesn't sweep or dust first, just puts water on the floor. I had to tell her this just makes the dust settle into the pores and grain of the wood and moves it around. We have given up trying to tell her that if she wants the dishes she washes to get clean, she has to do more than rub it with water and her finger. Now I have to inspect every dish as I put it away or take them out.
> 
> Thank you, dame. Your words are always so encouraging. How do I be kind to me? Any suggestions? Anyone?


Calgon, take me away.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Cool! What's your goal?


So far the women I have spoken to at our small Sisterhood group have about 20 hats. We hope to have 30 or more by Sept 10 when I take them to the library where they are getting shipped to the distribution point in Utah. http://www.clickforbabies.org/index.php Library Loopers has at least 25 already and meets weekly, so they may have 50 to ship. If we reach our goal of 100 combined we will be happy.

The local newspaper just completed a chemo cap campaign for the local cancer center and donated over 200 hats, but that was a county wide effort that the paper publicized.

And we have an ongoing project making preemie hats for a nearby NICU. Those are fast and fun. We use cheerful colors for the parents' morale.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


I am so sorry that you are caught in the middle of this. I would be tempted to run away to a South Sea island!

Is nobody else in your husband's family taking their share of the responsibility? If that is the case, the family conference may serve you well. See whether you can come with a list of the things you are willing to do and the days you are willing to devote to your MIL. Tell the rest of the family that they can decide which of the rest of the chores other people can choose and which of the days they can elect to devote to her. Probably you will be greeted by dead silence.

Another ploy is to make the list of all the things MIL says she needs done for her, and put each task on a slip of paper. Put them all in a big hat or bowl and each family member takes turns pulling a slip out. Whatever they draw is their chore.

It is so unfair for all this to be dumped on you. After all, when you got married you didn't sign up for this. Your husband is fortunate that you are such a fine person that your don't attack him out of resentment for the demands made on you.

At the least, the very least, tell the rest of the family that you are taking two days a week off, that your phone will be turned off, that you will erase any messages on your answering machine from that day, and you will live your life on your terms at least those two days a week. Maybe the tough love attitude of that will give your MIL some pause as well. If people get mad at you, too bad. I am so irate on your behalf!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Yes, you are totally right. According to dh, granny has always been like this. I won't go into details of how he has described the messes she made in the bathroom long before she had the stroke. She thinks a mop doesn't work if the ground is still dirty. She doesn't sweep or dust first, just puts water on the floor. I had to tell her this just makes the dust settle into the pores and grain of the wood and moves it around. We have given up trying to tell her that if she wants the dishes she washes to get clean, she has to do more than rub it with water and her finger. Now I have to inspect every dish as I put it away or take them out.
> 
> Thank you, dame. Your words are always so encouraging. How do I be kind to me? Any suggestions? Anyone?


Learn to say NO when the other relatives try to foist themselves on you. If they want to see granny, send her to them. If they want to visit from out of town or out of state, tell them where the nearby hotels or B & Bs are. You have enough with granny that you don't need the slovenly freeloaders dumped on you as well. "No, that is not convenient for me." "No, that doesn't work for me"

If they get mad at you, so what. You don't need them as a fan club, and granny is poisoning them against you as it is. You have your own health issues to deal with, and it may be a good idea, if you can afford it, to go away to a spa or health resort for a week to recoup your mental and physical equilibrium. You are no good to yourself and your husband if you let yourself get sick or have your adorable personality negatively affected.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't know how to limit my time with granny. I am responsible for her health and well being. In between things I'll sit by myself and knit, or come on here. It's just been nonstop and it is taking it's toll. Usually she will go to her daughters for a couple days or a week each month. That sometimes helps.
> 
> I wish I could go somewhere when I get frustrated like dh does. Not being able to drive, especially in my area, makes that impossible. My sibs love a little too far to pick me up for a little while.
> 
> ...


I would be so tempted to move and not leave a forwarding address. She has daughters who are not being daughterly. Why is it you are stuck with the dirty work?

Honestly, I hope you and Nebraska get into a PM dialog as a support group and figure out how to protect yourselves and not be taken advantage of. You are such good, kind hearted women, and the rest of the family in each case is taking insufferable advantage of each of you and your kindness and goodness of heart.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> We've been here for 20+ years so we've taken road trips all over the state....well known places and surprises. Grand Canyon, Flagstaff, Sedona, Tucson, Jerome & Bisbee (old mining towns), Tombstone, Senoita (wine country,) Patagonia (bird migration sanctuary,) Painted Desert, Oatman (deserted mine where the burros have managed to thrive. They direct traffic for carrots now....and you better pay off.) That's just a few.
> 
> Nine months out of the year the weather is glorious. The rest of the time we use air conditioning like the rest of the country uses heat in winter.


We saw some of those. Jerome was very interesting, Tombstone, Painted Desert, and Grand Canyon. Just living there was great - so different from our home in Baltimore, Maryland. Getting up and seeing mountains from our little apartment. Our apartment group is still there - saw it on Google Earth. Everyone was so nice. We both were surprised that every morning on the weather report, they would announce th visibility. It was often sixty miles! We'd never experienced that before. And the snow line. We went to Mt. Lemmon a few times. My husband lost his wedding ring there - throwing rocks over a cliff! Meeting Mexicans for the first time - such warm, friendly people. Seeing turquoise jewelry - so pretty. And downtown - men in cowboy boots and hats. All so different to us - we loved it.

We met some nice people there, too. Of course, the life of a student is like no other. My husband was getting a master's at Universitly of Arizona - I had a little job at a mental health center - loved that. It was really a special time.

Long post again. Sorry. Busy day today, and I'd better get started! Have a great Tuesday.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> My cat's name is Ethel Mertz.


Oh, so cute! You must be Lucy! When I started teaching - in my fifties - there was another new teacher my age. We became great friends. We were in a nice position - people were automatically nice to us out of courtesy, and we were always having fun. I called her Lucy and she called me Ethel. In fact, we still do that - having lunch with her tomorrow.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> A few suggestions come to mind. IMO others in the family have come to expect too much of you. It is wonderful that you have done so much, but it is wrong for them to expect it. You might benefit from talking to a professional with experience dealing with the elderly. Perhaps someone on KP will be able to point you in the right direction.
> 
> You need to find a way to take some time off. Right now it sounds like you're 24/7. Take the afternoon off and take your knitting to the library or church pew. The idea is to have regular time alone to recharge.


Long hot showers are relaxing - and maybe you won't be disturbed. Added plus - you can't hear anything that's going on outside the shower.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> So far the women I have spoken to at our small Sisterhood group have about 20 hats. We hope to have 30 or more by Sept 10 when I take them to the library where they are getting shipped to the distribution point in Utah. http://www.clickforbabies.org/index.php Library Loopers has at least 25 already and meets weekly, so they may have 50 to ship. If we reach our goal of 100 combined we will be happy.
> 
> The local newspaper just completed a chemo cap campaign for the local cancer center and donated over 200 hats, but that was a county wide effort that the paper publicized.
> 
> And we have an ongoing project making preemie hats for a nearby NICU. Those are fast and fun. We use cheerful colors for the parents' morale.


What a huge effort and for such a worthy cause.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Learn to say NO when the other relatives try to foist themselves on you. If they want to see granny, send her to them. If they want to visit from out of town or out of state, tell them where the nearby hotels or B & Bs are. You have enough with granny that you don't need the slovenly freeloaders dumped on you as well. "No, that is not convenient for me." "No, that doesn't work for me"
> 
> If they get mad at you, so what. You don't need them as a fan club, and granny is poisoning them against you as it is. You have your own health issues to deal with, and it may be a good idea, if you can afford it, to go away to a spa or health resort for a week to recoup your mental and physical equilibrium. You are no good to yourself and your husband if you let yourself get sick or have your adorable personality negatively affected.


Very good ideas, Marilyn.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've had some other thoughts for those taking care of elderly family.

Ask yourself: Am I reimbursed for items I purchase for the benefit of the person? Have I been 'promised' items or money from the estate? Is this in writing and notarized?

We've been taught not to think about money in a case where someone needs/WANTS help. This allows us to be victimized. It's not fair but the only thing to do is to know your rights and stand up for yourself.

quote=MarilynKnits]I am so sorry that you are caught in the middle of this. I would be tempted to run away to a South Sea island!

Is nobody else in your husband's family taking their share of the responsibility? If that is the case, the family conference may serve you well. See whether you can come with a list of the things you are willing to do and the days you are willing to devote to your MIL. Tell the rest of the family that they can decide which of the rest of the chores other people can choose and which of the days they can elect to devote to her. Probably you will be greeted by dead silence.

Another ploy is to make the list of all the things MIL says she needs done for her, and put each task on a slip of paper. Put them all in a big hat or bowl and each family member takes turns pulling a slip out. Whatever they draw is their chore.

It is so unfair for all this to be dumped on you. After all, when you got married you didn't sign up for this. Your husband is fortunate that you are such a fine person that your don't attack him out of resentment for the demands made on you.

At the least, the very least, tell the rest of the family that you are taking two days a week off, that your phone will be turned off, that you will erase any messages on your answering machine from that day, and you will live your life on your terms at least those two days a week. Maybe the tough love attitude of that will give your MIL some pause as well. If people get mad at you, too bad. I am so irate on your behalf![/quote]


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't know how to limit my time with granny. I am responsible for her health and well being. In between things I'll sit by myself and knit, or come on here. It's just been nonstop and it is taking it's toll. Usually she will go to her daughters for a couple days or a week each month. That sometimes helps.
> 
> I wish I could go somewhere when I get frustrated like dh does. Not being able to drive, especially in my area, makes that impossible. My sibs love a little too far to pick me up for a little while.
> 
> ...


Why are you in charge? How far are her kids from her? They are the ones who should be taking care of her. Where is your mom/dad?
If your GM is losing touch with reality could she be evaluating by someone and get a home health aid?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You say YOU are responsible for grannie totally. How did you come to be responsible? Who appointed you? How are you to be compensated? You are only related by marriage, if I remember correctly.

You are most kind to do this for her. I understand that at this age she may be overly concerned with out-living her savings, but there is no reason you should not receive part of the remainder. I have personally seen ugly things happen afterwards with family member who have done the least swoop in after a death and claim all they can grab. At the very least grannie should have an current will.



Natureschampion said:


> I don't know how to limit my time with granny. I am responsible for her health and well being. In between things I'll sit by myself and knit, or come on here. It's just been nonstop and it is taking it's toll. Usually she will go to her daughters for a couple days or a week each month. That sometimes helps.
> 
> I wish I could go somewhere when I get frustrated like dh does. Not being able to drive, especially in my area, makes that impossible. My sibs love a little too far to pick me up for a little while.
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Lucky you!!! My mil has decided she can't do ANYTHING! Last week she told me she wants to call a family meeting so that we can all sign up to do everything, get the mail, take the trash out, vacuum, dust, clean the bathroom, the kitchen etc... This on top of taking her to doctors twice a week, hair appointments, grocery shopping, Walmart and Dollar General. Oh, don't forget, out to lunch where she leaves a $1 tip (I add $5, they've earned it). My hubby told her she needs to hire a cleaning lady. She said, " You mean, PAY for it?". He said, "Yes"! She's thinking about it. Now her Dr wants her to go to therapy THREE TIMES A WEEK! I want to run away! She doesn't qualify for home health and somehow we supposed to do this on top of everything else?!? She calls me twice every day and hubby at least once a day. She's called my daughter's in law so much that she's driving them crazy! I don't know what we're gonna do. My hubby is trying to hint and lead her towards assisted living, but I don't think she'll do it. My life is a mess!


Knitter from Nebraska
I tell you, I would probably show up in a Uniform so that the General has her army ready for her commands. At an other time I would dress up as a Maid with fitting attire plus bucket, mop, plunger and of course a broom. Next I would be dressed like a Chauffer. Believe me I would never have to tell her how I feel, I would show her.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I tell you, I would probably show up in a Uniform so that the General has her army ready for her commands. At an other time I would dress up as a Maid with fitting attire plus bucket, mop, plunger and of course a broom. Believe me I would never have to tell her how I feel, I would show her.


And Our Huckle will probably create her own attire. Grand suggestion except dressing up like a maid can have sexual connotations.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> And Our Huckle will probably create her own attire. Grand suggestion except dressing up like a maid can have sexual connotations.


SQM
I assure you I would not have to explain whom or what I depict. Yes, Huckle would be very "visible" not vocal. MIL seems to have her focus on things other than sex. I approach everything out of the ordinary and try to weave humor into every situation. I am limiting my stay in the Kitchen to emergencies. I retired from some chores. Love that freedom to do what I really like, creating some even useless things.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> You say YOU are responsible for grannie totally. How did you come to be responsible? Who appointed you? How are you to be compensated? You are only related by marriage, if I remember correctly.
> 
> You are most kind to do this for her. I understand that at this age she may be overly concerned with out-living her savings, but there is no reason you should not receive part of the remainder. I have personally seen ugly things happen afterwards with family member who have done the least swoop in after a death and claim all they can grab. At the very least grannie should have an current will.


damemary
you are so right, those who give the most usually get the least and most of all no respect.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've had some other thoughts for those taking care of elderly family.
> 
> Ask yourself: Am I reimbursed for items I purchase for the benefit of the person? Have I been 'promised' items or money from the estate? Is this in writing and notarized?
> 
> ...


[/quote]

damemary
I agree with everything you say and all of us should take it to Heart.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I adore Oatman and the burros. I'm not familiar with Bullhead City. Tell me about it.


damemary
My In Laws lived in Tucson in the Winter. I could do without the Heat in the City but loved Mt. Lemmon. Could live up there. The blooming Desert is breath taking. Tombstone I could easily stay away from. Have not heard of Bullhead either.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> And Our Huckle will probably create her own attire. Grand suggestion except dressing up like a maid can have sexual connotations.


SQM - you have been reading too many naughty books! :mrgreen:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I assure you I would not have to explain whom or what I depict. Yes, Huckle would be very "visible" not vocal. MIL seems to have her focus on things other than sex. I approach everything out of the ordinary and try to weave humor into every situation. I am limiting my stay in the Kitchen to emergencies. I retired from some chores. Love that freedom to do what I really like, creating some even useless things.


I love that - limiting your stay in the kitchen to emergencies! That's a jewel of wisdom!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Calgon, take me away.


Calgon? Huh?

I think you and I need to take a vacation together...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Learn to say NO when the other relatives try to foist themselves on you. If they want to see granny, send her to them. If they want to visit from out of town or out of state, tell them where the nearby hotels or B & Bs are. You have enough with granny that you don't need the slovenly freeloaders dumped on you as well. "No, that is not convenient for me." "No, that doesn't work for me"
> 
> If they get mad at you, so what. You don't need them as a fan club, and granny is poisoning them against you as it is. You have your own health issues to deal with, and it may be a good idea, if you can afford it, to go away to a spa or health resort for a week to recoup your mental and physical equilibrium. You are no good to yourself and your husband if you let yourself get sick or have your adorable personality negatively affected.


Technically it's Granny's house so I have no say in who is allowed to visit. I have (tried to) put my foot down by saying that people are NOT allowed to stay here if they are not here to see granny but only to have somewhere free to stay. That is more wrong than them not cleaning up after themselves. When dh's uncle and his wife and son visited a few months ago, the uncle did spend time with granny but his wife and son were at Disneyland 3 of the 4 days. They live in Texas and don't get out here much. If dh's uncle didn't spend time with granny, i would have said they would not be allowed back. Niece wanted to stay here (with a friend that I don't know) for about a week and I said no bc she would only have been using us to be able to see her friends, not to spend time with her grandmother. My thing is; if their not here to see granny, they don't need to be here.

Most of granny's kids love in other states. Her daughter and her family were in San Diego (from New Mexico) and we drove the 3-4 hour round trip to take her to them and pick her up a couple days later. I have wanted to have her family stay somewhere else since they do treat the house like they are slobs in a hotel, where part of their nightly fee would go towards housekeeping. If they want to be slobs, they can pay to have someone clean up after them. I have no say, though. Like I said, "it's granny's house." If it is bad enough after this family visits (I have only met one of the people who are coming) I might tell granny how I feel and how much more work it is for me.

I don't care who gets mad at me, I worry about how dh and granny feel. I don't think granny means to poison her kids against me, I don't even know what these kids know about me. I only know she says things to my mil and her other daughter. It seems my mil may be the only one who believes her, and I think that's bc she is spiteful towards me (which I don't understand bc I have only ever cared for her son and granny, and only moved in to take care of granny after she proved she, her daughter, and granddaughter could not be counted on.). I know granny's son appreciates me taking care of his mother, even if he can't clean up after himself.

I would love to take a relaxing vacation. One of the major issues right now is that dh and I have not been away together for a very long time and haven't taken a honeymoon. Right now, though, his mother (who is the only one who is local right now) has been gone for over three months and will be gone for over a month more. When she is home she is "too busy" with her friends and other social activities to be bothered, or is leaving a few days after she gets back from a 1-4 week long trip, or going to her cabin in the mountains. Sometimes she takes granny when she goes there. After all, it was granny's property before it was hers and she wouldn't have been able to build the house without the help from granny. I did take 5 days with my family in July. We have been going to a resort type thing for almost 30 years and I wasn't going to not go bc my mil had decided to leave for so long. It was such a mess trying to find someone to take care of granny for the 3 days dh was up there with me, and someone to check on her when he was at work. Right now we have no one else to help out for more than a day. I also don't want to go away without dh again. Right now I am trying to plan a camping trip (that's my idea of a relaxing time) for sometime after MIL gets back. Btw, she reminded me at the dinner after our wedding that if we wanted to take a honeymoon, we would either have had to plan and take it before she left or would have to wait almost a year before we could even think about it. She also left us responsible for granny the weekend after our wedding. dh took a few days off that week bc his best friend was in town from Florida who he never gets to see. I was perfectly alright with spending time with his friend, who is now like a brother to me, bc I "knew" we would have more time together. I didn't know at we wouldn't have the following weekend without responsibilities just to ourselves.

I guess I have just conditioned myself to NOT think about myself. I really need to learn to do things for myself. I am so glad I discovered knitting and crochet bc (when I have time to do them) it really takes me away and helps me relax. Also, you gals help a WHOLE lot. I can't tell you how wonderful it's been for me to escape here.

Sorry to go on. I really appreciate you all listening to what I go through.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would be so tempted to move and not leave a forwarding address. She has daughters who are not being daughterly. Why is it you are stuck with the dirty work?
> 
> Honestly, I hope you and Nebraska get into a PM dialog as a support group and figure out how to protect yourselves and not be taken advantage of. You are such good, kind hearted women, and the rest of the family in each case is taking insufferable advantage of each of you and your kindness and goodness of heart.


I am stuck with the work bc no one else would do it and dh could not quit his job to care for granny. I moved in before we ever considered getting married bc none of the 3 other direct family members living in huge area at the time (none of whom have jobs) would take any responsibility for granny, other than taking her to dr. Appointments only after I discovered I couldn't drive anymore. After I moved in and was cooking, cleaning, and caring for granny's health needs (she was less of a handful at the time), my mil said to me (before she was my mil) "I know you do things around here now, but you could do more."

I am VERY tempted to move and not leave a forwarding address.

I was actually planning on starting a "support dialogue" over PM with KFN. Sounds like we both know where each other is coming from.

Thanks so much for your concern.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> Long hot showers are relaxing - and maybe you won't be disturbed. Added plus - you can't hear anything that's going on outside the shower.


That's a great idea, but we are in the midst of a horrible draught. I want a HOT TUB!!!


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> interesting about the toothbrushes. I think I'll try the little glasses for candy snacks. I have a terrible sweet tooth - sometimes I ask myself if I'm really still five years old! Must I have candy EVERY day? Grow up, Bonnie!


Yes! You must have candy every day! What is the point of being grown up if you can't have candy every day?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Why are you in charge? How far are her kids from her? They are the ones who should be taking care of her. Where is your mom/dad?
> If your GM is losing touch with reality could she be evaluating by someone and get a home health aid?


I am in charge bc dh and granny had no one else. I don't think granny knows this, though. One of her kids lives only 25 minutes away, but since she is retired, she is somehow entitled to go on vacations all year and enjoy herself when she is home. Granny tells me how busy mil is and it's like, " doing what? Stuff for herself?" Of course I don't say this to granny. I HAVE told granny I don't want to hear about how wonderful a time mil is having on her most recent disgustingly long vacation. I have to put up with and listen to so much, I think I have the right to say I don't have to hear one topic. Of course I say it very nicely. SIL and niece did live more locally and didn't work, but for some reason they just couldn't (wouldn't?) do anything.

My mother and father are taking care of their mothers, and they NEVER go on vacation without my moms mom (except when they go to NY to visit my brother). I have so much respect and admiration for my parents. However, they do not live with their mothers and have been married 38 years and have had plenty of vacations alone. They also get a tremendous amount of help from my sister and her husband, who also live very close to them.

Granny does not qualify for a home health aid without paying for it herself. She also doesn't qualify to get help from the state for ME to get a small payment for what I do to help out with the fact that I don't have an income, and it is much more difficult for 2 people to live on 1 persons wages. If mil could come off of her high, self righteous, and selfish horse to actually care for the woman who has given so much to her, then most of this wouldn't be an issue. As it is, she thinks that I somehow owe her something. Dh won't tell her otherwise. A whole other issue that I don't know what to do.

Thanks for your concern and support.

Hey, this is for everyone; would you leave your 89/90 year old mother who had just had 2 strokes less than 2 years earlier for 5 months to go on a trip? And leave her to be cared for by only 2 people, one of whom doesn't drive, neither of whom get away very much? I don't know, we have a hard enough time planning a week vacation since granny had her strokes. I know my parents wouldn't dream of taking that much time away from their parents since their health started drastically deteriorating. Dad's mom had a stroke the year before granny, and my dad feels horrible if he can't get out to see her more than twice a week (she lives about 40 minutes from them).


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello great ladies. I usually check in on this site two or three times a day to keep up. But yesterday, as I said, I had to see the dentist. I thought one of back teeth was beginning to crumble so I went to a local dentist, not my usual dentist. He took X-rays and generally checked things out. He said the root was cracked and the tooth would probably have to be extracted. However, he said that there was a specialist came to his clinic regularly and he made an appointment for me to see him to see if the tooth could be saved. I am loathe to have it removed as (a) it is expensive, (b) it would leave a gap and I would not be able to chew as I have a gap in the opposite side, and (c) it would mean either a partial denture (which I do not think I would like) or a bridge, which, again is very expensive. 

So off I went to see the specialist. Five minutes later I left after having been told that the tooth would probably have to be extracted. What a waste of time and money ($53). The tooth is not bothering me so I will leave it alone. But when I need to, I will go back to my usual dentist, even though just travelling there and back takes an hour.

I was just about to leave for my appointment when my daughter phoned. She rents a really nice house on nearly 5 acres out in the country. But the house was put on the market a few months ago and she was calling to tell me that there was an accepted offer. She was quite distraught. So after my appointment I went out to her place. By the time I got there, however, the original panic was over and we were on to plan B. So now I get to use my "spare" time to try to find her somewhere to live. She is planning to buy a place but can't right now because of her credit rating. She is a discharged bankrupt and, unfortunately, did not do anything to restore her credit once she became discharged.

We were thinking about rent-to-own. We have considered that before, but there was no real panic. Now there is. Does anyone have any experience with this time of home purchase? When we were trying to sell our last house we looked into it, because we really had to get rid of the house. We had already had an accepted offer on our present house, and then my husband lost his job. Panic stations all around. Fortunately, at the last minute we managed to sell the house.

If we go the rent-to-own option she will have her home and not have to think about moving again. We have to do this and have things completed before the end of September. I think she has to be out of the house by then, I am not sure what the exact date it. But she works in the costume department for the movies and is expecting that she will be going back to work some time about then. Any information on this form of home buying would be most helpful.

Now that is my tale of woe. But it does not come anywhere near others. To NC and KB, I am so sad that you have been lumbered with the care of these people. Some old people just have no idea what it takes to look after them. They can be extremely selfish and think they are the centre of the universe. My heart goes out to you. I am thankful that I will not be in such a situation. But I understand it. My husband is the eldest of eight children, all but two live in the relative neighbourhood. But when my MIL became ill, I know it was left up to the two daughters to take care of her. They did not live with her, as she was fiercely independent, but they visited every day and took her to doctor's appointment, etc. Now she is in a nursing home and it is all I can do to get my husband to visit her. He goes every second Sunday and thinks that is fine. I don't go anymore as I can't hear or understand what she says.

But I know if she were my mother, I would visit her every day. Unfortunately, I could not do that for my mother, who lived in UK.

But to have this burden placed on one who is not even a blood relative and be so mistreated is really awful. It is hard to take time for oneself under these circumstance. Others here have given some sound advice as to how to divide the work. It is so important to take some time for oneself. I think I would be inclined to just go away for a day and see what happens. I know you won't do that because you are such a nice person. But don't let yourself get run down by doing too much. Take care of yourselves. You are important.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> You say YOU are responsible for grannie totally. How did you come to be responsible? Who appointed you? How are you to be compensated? You are only related by marriage, if I remember correctly.
> 
> You are most kind to do this for her. I understand that at this age she may be overly concerned with out-living her savings, but there is no reason you should not receive part of the remainder. I have personally seen ugly things happen afterwards with family member who have done the least swoop in after a death and claim all they can grab. At the very least grannie should have an current will.


I guess I am not COMPLETELY responsible for granny, as we do need other people to drive us to her doctors and dh does a lot, too. I came to this position bc for a few months after granny's strokes, dh had to miss a lot of work every week to go home to check on her, and when he was home couldn't handle everything. His niece was suposed to "hang out" with granny at the rehab hospital, and then keep her company and make her food and whatnot at home when granny was able to return. She was even getting paid for this but used the opportunity to veg or go hang out with her friends. She did hang out with granny a tiny bit, but couldn't be counted on. His sister never showed up when she was suposed to, and his mother couldn't be bothered when she was home and didn't think she should have to sacrifice her vacations. One night dh came to me and pleaded with me to move in. I really felt for him and granny.

I am the only one who considers granny. Her daughter doesn't even make sure she is hydrated and doesn't listen to me when I tell her granny needs to go to the doctor. She thinks she knows everything but does nothing. Right now I can be in charge of her doctor appointments bc mil is gone and step SIL is very accommodating (I am actually considering asking her to take granny for one day this weekend so dh and I can do what Shirley is doing. Granny won't let us get rid of anything. In fact, we have a box full of bent, blunt, and rusted kitchen knives in the garage and a broken toaster in a cabinet). When mil gets back she will take complete control of that again. The problem is, she does everything in one day bc she can't be inconvenienced to spread granny's appointments to 2 days. By the time they get home (and she leaves immediately), granny is exhausted, very swollen, and dehydrated. I have made granny a water bottle carrier and make sure she has it whenever she leaves, even if I'm not going with her. Mil will also take granny to eat or pick up food for her, but has only twice asked me to go and has never asked if I wanted anything, even though I am responsible for all of granny's meals otherwise. One of those times I was with them bc I had to give the doctor accounts of what had been going on (how would mil know? She's never around). Other times I went with them I ended up making both of them or just granny lunch as soon as we got home. MIL is very controlling but doesn't want the responsibility of actually CARING for her mother.

My "compensation" is that dh is getting the house. It is an inheritance, so it doesn't go to both of us and if something happens to him before granny, i will be out on the street. Mil keeps reminding us that " we get the house" as her excuse for treating me like she does and me not working in order to care for granny. What they would be paying someone to do what I do if I was working or never moved in is much more than a mortgage or rent would cost, especially in this area. Mil said she would pay someone minimum wage to care for granny before she would give me any more. A minimum wage worker would not do everything that i do. I do get a small stipend, but not even enough to cover health insurance, dentist, and other necessities. If I had a full time job, I would have health care. As it is my parents help me out bc they know I "need" it. Or at least they insist I do. Mil has never paid for her own health or dental, and doesn't care that my parents are helping me while I take care of HER mother. She just says "you get the house... You get the house..." When granny is gone, anything is possible, and I DONT get the house. Dh does. I still want to see the documentation that states this, and would like to be included as well. I have heard horror stories about inheritance. Mil has power of attorney, so who knows what she will try to pull. Also, dh has taken care of granny and the house for 20 years, and until granny had her stroke he paid rent when no one else who was living there did. As far as I'm concerned, "rent" was payment towards getting the house, especially since there was no "family discount" and dh paid what he would have anywhere else in the area. There are so many things we do that "entitle" us to getting the house, that I feel that caring for granny should be a separate issue. If they had to pay someone to care for granny, we would still do the stuff for the house we halve always done. And that's another thing-granny would have spent a buttload of money over the past 20 years to have someone do what dh did/does, and what I do seperate from her health care. Plus, we would still have to care for her on weekend and after work. What it comes down to is that MIL doesn't want to cut into her inheritance. When she told us this (and yes, she actually TOLD us this) I thought I was going to throw up. I decided then and there that even though she is dh's mother, I will not be doing for her what I do for granny, and when granny is gone will have nothing to do with her. Dh can still have a relationship with her, of course, but I won't. I can't. That coupled with her stating that she would pay someone minimum wage before she would give me any more--Call it self preservation.

Btw, it also makes me very I'll and hurt to think of a stranger who doesn't know or love granny to care for her. That is why I resigned my position on trying to get a little more financial "help" for not working. I would rather live week to week and know granny is truly being cared for than make money. Fortunately, my parents are the most wonderful people in the world, support this, and will give me help if/when I need it.

I don't know if I should have included that last really llong paragraph. I guess I'm just on a roll and it feels good to get it out. I can no longer talk to dh about this stuff. He just cannot bare to be reminded that his family, especially his mother, is not perfect. The thing is, I am a very expressive person and need to talk about things. I think it's part of my OCD/Tourette's. I obsessively think about things and Compulsively HAVE to get it out (sometimes repeating myself like Leo dicaprio in the aviator, that's part of my Tourette's).

Please tell me I am wrong about how I feel and what I think I need (mainly appreciation, respect and consideration). That way I can make an attitude adjustment and go on doing what I've been doing without these hard and hurt feelings. As long as I think I'm right, there is no need to change. If someone can point out where I'm wrong, I will consider it and act based on that consideration. I'm not SO stubborn as to not self reflect and change my attitude or actions if what I do or how I feel is illogical or wrong and self destructive.

Again, thank you all so much for being here and allowing me to share, and giving me feedback. It is truly appreciated and I don't know what I would do without you.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BlueJay21 said:


> Yes! You must have candy every day! What is the point of being grown up if you can't have candy every day?


I agree!!! I tell people my favorite part of being an adult is I can eat what I want when I want. Do I want pizza for breakfast? Why not? Ice cream for dinner and hearty soup for desert? Who's to stop me? I'm not as into candy as Bonnie it seems, but I definitely know where you guys are coming from. Everything in moderation though, right? Except happiness. You can never have too much happiness.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Technically it's Granny's house so I have no say in who is allowed to visit. I have (tried to) put my foot down by saying that people are NOT allowed to stay here if they are not here to see granny but only to have somewhere free to stay. That is more wrong than them not cleaning up after themselves. When dh's uncle and his wife and son visited a few months ago, the uncle did spend time with granny but his wife and son were at Disneyland 3 of the 4 days. They live in Texas and don't get out here much. If dh's uncle didn't spend time with granny, i would have said they would not be allowed back. Niece wanted to stay here (with a friend that I don't know) for about a week and I said no bc she would only have been using us to be able to see her friends, not to spend time with her grandmother. My thing is; if their not here to see granny, they don't need to be here.
> 
> Most of granny's kids love in other states. Her daughter and her family were in San Diego (from New Mexico) and we drove the 3-4 hour round trip to take her to them and pick her up a couple days later. I have wanted to have her family stay somewhere else since they do treat the house like they are slobs in a hotel, where part of their nightly fee would go towards housekeeping. If they want to be slobs, they can pay to have someone clean up after them. I have no say, though. Like I said, "it's granny's house." If it is bad enough after this family visits (I have only met one of the people who are coming) I might tell granny how I feel and how much more work it is for me.
> 
> ...


I agree with the others that you have every right to claim time for yourself. However, I see another side to what you are doing, too.

You are very selfless, I must say. And you have a good attitude about it. I'm glad, too, that you have your knitting and crochet and KP. I know how relaxing they can be.

I've known a few people like you, and I am impressed with their ability to be so giving and strong in the face of adversity. I don't think I could be so generous. I'd like to be, but probably couldn't. I hope that some day you will be rewarded in some way - maybe just by a whole lot of happiness - for these good things you're doing. I know we're of different religions, but that doesn't matter at all to me, especially when I tell you I believe you are doing God's work.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I agree!!! I tell people my favorite part of being an adult is I can eat what I want when I want. Do I want pizza for breakfast? Why not? Ice cream for dinner and hearty soup for desert? Who's to stop me? I'm not as into candy as Bonnie it seems, but I definitely know where you guys are coming from. Everything in moderation though, right? Except happiness. You can never have too much happiness.


Oh, how right you are, and sometimes it is hard to find. But when you have it, it is great.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree with the others that you have every right to claim time for yourself. However, I see another side to what you are doing, too.
> 
> You are very selfless, I must say. And you have a good attitude about it. I'm glad, too, that you have your knitting and crochet and KP. I know how relaxing they can be.
> 
> I've known a few people like you, and I am impressed with their ability to be so giving and strong in the face of adversity. I don't think I could be so generous. I'd like to be, but probably couldn't. I hope that some day you will be rewarded in some way - maybe just by a whole lot of happiness - for these good things you're doing. I know we're of different religions, but that doesn't matter at all to me, especially when I tell you I believe you are doing God's work.


Thanks Bonnie, that means a lot. From what I understand you are like that with your family. As far as I'm concerned, granny is my family. I fell in love with her as soon as I met her and admire what dh has done for the past 2 decades. In fact, I don't know that I was so selfless and generous before I met him. He has changed me (for the better) in so many ways. Then again, the opportunity had never presented itself. You never know how you will react to a situation until it happens.

My mom always says something I'd like to share. At the end of the day, if you can look into the mirror and honestly tell yourself you do the right thing, then that's what matters.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> So far the women I have spoken to at our small Sisterhood group have about 20 hats. We hope to have 30 or more by Sept 10 when I take them to the library where they are getting shipped to the distribution point in Utah. http://www.clickforbabies.org/index.php Library Loopers has at least 25 already and meets weekly, so they may have 50 to ship. If we reach our goal of 100 combined we will be happy.
> 
> The local newspaper just completed a chemo cap campaign for the local cancer center and donated over 200 hats, but that was a county wide effort that the paper publicized.
> 
> And we have an ongoing project making preemie hats for a nearby NICU. Those are fast and fun. We use cheerful colors for the parents' morale.


That's really neat! At the beginning of the summer, I started knitting angel wraps. I got a little over two knitted, now they're just wips. :-(


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love it!


Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I assure you I would not have to explain whom or what I depict. Yes, Huckle would be very "visible" not vocal. MIL seems to have her focus on things other than sex. I approach everything out of the ordinary and try to weave humor into every situation. I am limiting my stay in the Kitchen to emergencies. I retired from some chores. Love that freedom to do what I really like, creating some even useless things.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the validation. I thought it was important to say something.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> you are so right, those who give the most usually get the least and most of all no respect.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks again Huck. You are a great reality check.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I agree with everything you say and all of us should take it to Heart.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mt. Lemmon is a world unto itself. I think Bullhead City is in northwest part of the state near Kingman. Never been there though. You're right about Tombstone.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> My In Laws lived in Tucson in the Winter. I could do without the Heat in the City but loved Mt. Lemmon. Could live up there. The blooming Desert is breath taking. Tombstone I could easily stay away from. Have not heard of Bullhead either.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I love that - limiting your stay in the kitchen to emergencies! That's a jewel of wisdom!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am so sorry that you are caught in the middle of this. I would be tempted to run away to a South Sea island!
> 
> Is nobody else in your husband's family taking their share of the responsibility? If that is the case, the family conference may serve you well. See whether you can come with a list of the things you are willing to do and the days you are willing to devote to your MIL. Tell the rest of the family that they can decide which of the rest of the chores other people can choose and which of the days they can elect to devote to her. Probably you will be greeted by dead silence.
> 
> ...


South Sea island, here I come! Rats! I can't. 
My husband has one brother. He's a louse, a drug addict and alcoholic who makes babies and runs away (5 that we know of). He's currently living in Minneapolis and only contacts his mother when he's trying to get money from her. So, that's no solution.

The "family" that my mil wants to do everything are my husband and I, our children and daughters in law. My oldest son lives on the other side of the state, so he's out.

My next son works full time and commutes an hour and a half each day. He goes to school two nights a week and has two sons. He has very little time to spend with his boys now.

My next son works six days a week and often nights after his son goes to see bed.

My daughter is nearly 22. She works full time and has a fiancé that she absolutely HAS to be with.

My two daughters in law have both tried to help my mil, but it is just too much for them. Mil is driving them crazy, they don't want to do it anymore. They have kids who need naps and need to be able to play. They don't have 6 hours to haul her around or even to dust. It would probably take 6 hours to dust because she has hundreds of figurines.

My husband has a very busy job. He often travels overnight. Last week his coworker took early retirement so now he has a double load for the immediate future. Even if they hired someone today, it would take months to train them.

So its a no win situation for me! I did tell my husband that he'd better find someone to take her to therapy because I won't do it! I didn't sign up for any of this! I want my life back!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BlueJay21 said:


> Yes! You must have candy every day! What is the point of being grown up if you can't have candy every day?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've had some other thoughts for those taking care of elderly family.
> 
> Ask yourself: Am I reimbursed for items I purchase for the benefit of the person? Have I been 'promised' items or money from the estate? Is this in writing and notarized?
> 
> ...


[/quote]

I found this quite funny. We've blown through over $2000, in misc crap (eating out during long move etc), gas, you name it. When my husband presented her with an itemized statement for expenses that were definitely only hers (not including the $2000), she asked ME for the receipts. She also informed me that she's going to be changing her will to leave everything to our grandchildren. Not that I think that there will be anything left, but REALLY?!? GRRRR!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Natureschampion, 

You are always entitled to your feelings, and you understand the situation well. I think you are right to insist for you and your dh to see the written and notarized document that states your husband inherits the house. I'd also talk to him beforehand telling him you feel entitled to be added to the document.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely thought Bonnie.



bonbf3 said:


> I agree with the others that you have every right to claim time for yourself. However, I see another side to what you are doing, too.
> 
> You are very selfless, I must say. And you have a good attitude about it. I'm glad, too, that you have your knitting and crochet and KP. I know how relaxing they can be.
> 
> I've known a few people like you, and I am impressed with their ability to be so giving and strong in the face of adversity. I don't think I could be so generous. I'd like to be, but probably couldn't. I hope that some day you will be rewarded in some way - maybe just by a whole lot of happiness - for these good things you're doing. I know we're of different religions, but that doesn't matter at all to me, especially when I tell you I believe you are doing God's work.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> South Sea island, here I come! Rats! I can't.
> My husband has one brother. He's a louse, a drug addict and alcoholic who makes babies and runs away (5 that we know of). He's currently living in Minneapolis and only contacts his mother when he's trying to get money from her. So, that's no solution.
> 
> The "family" that my mil wants to do everything are my husband and I, our children and daughters in law. My oldest son lives on the other side of the state, so he's out.
> ...


I'm sorry, sweetie. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Or at least in the same waters. Oy very! Sigh...

The only difference is I only have myself to blame for the predicament I am in. I moved in in order to help care for granny. I knew exactly what I was getting into when we got married, as it happened a year later. While I don't regret my decision, I do wish some things were different.

Just remember, this, too, shall pass. My bubbie taught that to me at a very young age. It has helped me get through some very trying times.

I am sending lots of big hugs and positive vibes your way. I hope you receive them well. Good luck with everything.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I found this quite funny. We've blown through over $2000, in misc crap (eating out during long move etc), gas, you name it. When my husband presented her with an itemized statement for expenses that were definitely only hers (not including the $2000), she asked ME for the receipts. She also informed me that she's going to be changing her will to leave everything to our grandchildren. Not that I think that there will be anything left, but REALLY?!? GRRRR!


I hear you on this front, too. In fact, we just went to costco and when dh told granny how much it was, she just stared at him and said "ok." She made no indication she was going to lay her share. This happens a lot when we get groceries and stuff for the house. Sometimes she gives dh money the first time he asks (he always waits a while to ask a second time, if he does at all), but it is rarely the amount he told her. This amount is always less than what it should be. There are many times he doesn't get money at all for her dogs food and some of the smaller things he picks up (which really adds up). It's like it's our fault things have gotten so expensive and we need to pay for the difference of how cheap they used to be. Dh has the hardest time asking anyone, especially her, to pay him back for money he lent them or to pay for things he picked up for them. One of the first things I fell in love with was his generosity, but this is not so endearing. Especially when we can hardly afford our own needs and should be able to also enjoy ourselves. Btw, granny is in NO way hurting for money (she would be if she had to pay for care, though. Remind you MIL how much in home care is, and having to live in a facility. She would be spending much more than 2000$ a month, I guarantee) and can afford her own groceries and dogs food. She does, however, treat us to dinner once in a while.

Oh boy, granny's grand kids are here and I have not taken a shower. They weren't supposed to get here until tonight! I guess dh's aunt just called dh to let him know they were almost here (?), but if they just got here... I guess they asked for my number, but I have had my phone on me and have no missed calls. I am not ready, haven't showered and am a mess, and the bed still has a pile of sheets and blankets that came out of the dryer his morning.

GRRRRRR


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Calgon? Huh?
> 
> I think you and I need to take a vacation together...


You're too young to remember the commercial.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Technically it's Granny's house so I have no say in who is allowed to visit. I have (tried to) put my foot down by saying that people are NOT allowed to stay here if they are not here to see granny but only to have somewhere free to stay. That is more wrong than them not cleaning up after themselves. When dh's uncle and his wife and son visited a few months ago, the uncle did spend time with granny but his wife and son were at Disneyland 3 of the 4 days. They live in Texas and don't get out here much. If dh's uncle didn't spend time with granny, i would have said they would not be allowed back. Niece wanted to stay here (with a friend that I don't know) for about a week and I said no bc she would only have been using us to be able to see her friends, not to spend time with her grandmother. My thing is; if their not here to see granny, they don't need to be here.
> 
> Most of granny's kids love in other states. Her daughter and her family were in San Diego (from New Mexico) and we drove the 3-4 hour round trip to take her to them and pick her up a couple days later. I have wanted to have her family stay somewhere else since they do treat the house like they are slobs in a hotel, where part of their nightly fee would go towards housekeeping. If they want to be slobs, they can pay to have someone clean up after them. I have no say, though. Like I said, "it's granny's house." If it is bad enough after this family visits (I have only met one of the people who are coming) I might tell granny how I feel and how much more work it is for me.
> 
> ...


WARNING: VENT SESSION AHEAD! DONT READ IT IF YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN TO ME BITCH!

I don't know how you do it! You are a better person than I am, that's for sure! I had my mil day and night for nearly three weeks and I was ready to kill myself! She will never stay with us again! Her podiatrist wants to do surgery to straighten out her toes. He told her that we would be laid up for a little over two weeks. But I know with her, it will be months! She had prolapse surgery 20 years ago. They stayed with us for a month! She would only sleep in OUR bed and she wouldn't let her husband sleep with her. My husband and I ended up in bunk beds for a month! It was supposed to be a few days. She wouldn't even wipe herself! I told my husband that if she has the surgery, she will have to go to a nursing home to recover, because I will not do it!!! She just assumes that I will do it, but I will not! I can't deal with these things.

I don't even like her. I empathize with her. I have sympathy for her. She is my husband's mother but she wasn't much of a mother. She didn't want to be a grandmother and did nothing with my children. They were a bother, she couldn't even read them a book, let alone play with them. I've done everything I can to include them in our family. But I think I've had enough. I can't let go of my frustration because the issues causing the frustration just keep getting worse. I've never felt so awful about myself. I've never been anything but kind to this woman, but now I even hate it when my phone rings. Oh! The latest? She sold her car to a friend in her old town, two hours away. She expects us to deliver it to them. Not happening.

I'm sorry! This has been very cathartic! I keep telling myself to buck up, but I just can't! Thanks for letting me vent!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I am stuck with the work bc no one else would do it and dh could not quit his job to care for granny. I moved in before we ever considered getting married bc none of the 3 other direct family members living in huge area at the time (none of whom have jobs) would take any responsibility for granny, other than taking her to dr. Appointments only after I discovered I couldn't drive anymore. After I moved in and was cooking, cleaning, and caring for granny's health needs (she was less of a handful at the time), my mil said to me (before she was my mil) "I know you do things around here now, but you could do more."
> 
> I am VERY tempted to move and not leave a forwarding address.
> 
> ...


Do it! Move!!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I am in charge bc dh and granny had no one else. I don't think granny knows this, though. One of her kids lives only 25 minutes away, but since she is retired, she is somehow entitled to go on vacations all year and enjoy herself when she is home. Granny tells me how busy mil is and it's like, " doing what? Stuff for herself?" Of course I don't say this to granny. I HAVE told granny I don't want to hear about how wonderful a time mil is having on her most recent disgustingly long vacation. I have to put up with and listen to so much, I think I have the right to say I don't have to hear one topic. Of course I say it very nicely. SIL and niece did live more locally and didn't work, but for some reason they just couldn't (wouldn't?) do anything.
> 
> My mother and father are taking care of their mothers, and they NEVER go on vacation without my moms mom (except when they go to NY to visit my brother). I have so much respect and admiration for my parents. However, they do not live with their mothers and have been married 38 years and have had plenty of vacations alone. They also get a tremendous amount of help from my sister and her husband, who also live very close to them.
> 
> ...


Truly, I think Granny needs to be in a nursing home if her own children won't care for her. I don't know how you can start in a new marriage with so much responsibility and stress. My husband and I have been married for going on 38 years, and its taking a toll on us. I wish that I could give you some wonderful advice for coping but I'm not doing so well myself. I've always been a nurturer, but this is too much! My advice? Take your hubby and run!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BlueJay21 said:


> Hello great ladies. I usually check in on this site two or three times a day to keep up. But yesterday, as I said, I had to see the dentist. I thought one of back teeth was beginning to crumble so I went to a local dentist, not my usual dentist. He took X-rays and generally checked things out. He said the root was cracked and the tooth would probably have to be extracted. However, he said that there was a specialist came to his clinic regularly and he made an appointment for me to see him to see if the tooth could be saved. I am loathe to have it removed as (a) it is expensive, (b) it would leave a gap and I would not be able to chew as I have a gap in the opposite side, and (c) it would mean either a partial denture (which I do not think I would like) or a bridge, which, again is very expensive.
> 
> So off I went to see the specialist. Five minutes later I left after having been told that the tooth would probably have to be extracted. What a waste of time and money ($53). The tooth is not bothering me so I will leave it alone. But when I need to, I will go back to my usual dentist, even though just travelling there and back takes an hour.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much, bluejay! It seems that everything falls on the shoulders of women.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> And Our Huckle will probably create her own attire. Grand suggestion except dressing up like a maid can have sexual connotations.


Oh, wicked one! I confess I first thought of the French Maid's costume, too.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I guess I am not COMPLETELY responsible for granny, as we do need other people to drive us to her doctors and dh does a lot, too. I came to this position bc for a few months after granny's strokes, dh had to miss a lot of work every week to go home to check on her, and when he was home couldn't handle everything. His niece was suposed to "hang out" with granny at the rehab hospital, and then keep her company and make her food and whatnot at home when granny was able to return. She was even getting paid for this but used the opportunity to veg or go hang out with her friends. She did hang out with granny a tiny bit, but couldn't be counted on. His sister never showed up when she was suposed to, and his mother couldn't be bothered when she was home and didn't think she should have to sacrifice her vacations. One night dh came to me and pleaded with me to move in. I really felt for him and granny.
> 
> I am the only one who considers granny. Her daughter doesn't even make sure she is hydrated and doesn't listen to me when I tell her granny needs to go to the doctor. She thinks she knows everything but does nothing. Right now I can be in charge of her doctor appointments bc mil is gone and step SIL is very accommodating (I am actually considering asking her to take granny for one day this weekend so dh and I can do what Shirley is doing. Granny won't let us get rid of anything. In fact, we have a box full of bent, blunt, and rusted kitchen knives in the garage and a broken toaster in a cabinet). When mil gets back she will take complete control of that again. The problem is, she does everything in one day bc she can't be inconvenienced to spread granny's appointments to 2 days. By the time they get home (and she leaves immediately), granny is exhausted, very swollen, and dehydrated. I have made granny a water bottle carrier and make sure she has it whenever she leaves, even if I'm not going with her. Mil will also take granny to eat or pick up food for her, but has only twice asked me to go and has never asked if I wanted anything, even though I am responsible for all of granny's meals otherwise. One of those times I was with them bc I had to give the doctor accounts of what had been going on (how would mil know? She's never around). Other times I went with them I ended up making both of them or just granny lunch as soon as we got home. MIL is very controlling but doesn't want the responsibility of actually CARING for her mother.
> 
> ...


Oh honey, you are not wrong! No house is worth this! If you choose to stay and take care of Granny, insist on help. Let your mil pay someone else minimum wage. Let her find out what you are worth. Or YOU charge minimum wage. This is so not right! But IMO, you and your husband should go and build your life together. Rent an apartment, go visit Granny. How long can you go on if you're not appreciated?

I'll say this too, you probably won't get the house. Mil will get it. If you decide to stay and care for Granny, she should put it in your husband's and your name right now.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm sorry, sweetie. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Or at least in the same waters. Oy very! Sigh...
> 
> The only difference is I only have myself to blame for the predicament I am in. I moved in in order to help care for granny. I knew exactly what I was getting into when we got married, as it happened a year later. While I don't regret my decision, I do wish some things were different.
> 
> ...


Thanks, NC! I shall TRY to remember "this too, shall pass".


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I am in charge bc dh and granny had no one else. I don't think granny knows this, though. One of her kids lives only 25 minutes away, but since she is retired, she is somehow entitled to go on vacations all year and enjoy herself when she is home. Granny tells me how busy mil is and it's like, " doing what? Stuff for herself?" Of course I don't say this to granny. I HAVE told granny I don't want to hear about how wonderful a time mil is having on her most recent disgustingly long vacation. I have to put up with and listen to so much, I think I have the right to say I don't have to hear one topic. Of course I say it very nicely. SIL and niece did live more locally and didn't work, but for some reason they just couldn't (wouldn't?) do anything.
> 
> My mother and father are taking care of their mothers, and they NEVER go on vacation without my moms mom (except when they go to NY to visit my brother). I have so much respect and admiration for my parents. However, they do not live with their mothers and have been married 38 years and have had plenty of vacations alone. They also get a tremendous amount of help from my sister and her husband, who also live very close to them.
> 
> ...


Do you have a local Office of the Aging? Is there any agency you can consult regarding granny? With your health issues, MIL is actually abusing you.

One fine morning, just stay in bed and tell the rest of them you are exhausted and cannot do anything. Be demanding as far as needing a glass of water, breakfast, lunch, assistance getting to the loo, assistance taking a shower so you do not collapse and hurt yourself. Make yourself a general PITA and get a good day's rest.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I hear you on this front, too. In fact, we just went to costco and when dh told granny how much it was, she just stared at him and said "ok." She made no indication she was going to lay her share. This happens a lot when we get groceries and stuff for the house. Sometimes she gives dh money the first time he asks (he always waits a while to ask a second time, if he does at all), but it is rarely the amount he told her. This amount is always less than what it should be. There are many times he doesn't get money at all for her dogs food and some of the smaller things he picks up (which really adds up). It's like it's our fault things have gotten so expensive and we need to pay for the difference of how cheap they used to be. Dh has the hardest time asking anyone, especially her, to pay him back for money he lent them or to pay for things he picked up for them. One of the first things I fell in love with was his generosity, but this is not so endearing. Especially when we can hardly afford our own needs and should be able to also enjoy ourselves. Btw, granny is in NO way hurting for money (she would be if she had to pay for care, though. Remind you MIL how much in home care is, and having to live in a facility. She would be spending much more than 2000$ a month, I guarantee) and can afford her own groceries and dogs food. She does, however, treat us to dinner once in a while.
> 
> Oh boy, granny's grand kids are here and I have not taken a shower. They weren't supposed to get here until tonight! I guess dh's aunt just called dh to let him know they were almost here (?), but if they just got here... I guess they asked for my number, but I have had my phone on me and have no missed calls. I am not ready, haven't showered and am a mess, and the bed still has a pile of sheets and blankets that came out of the dryer his morning.
> 
> GRRRRRR


Hang in there! You will be in my thoughts!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm sorry, sweetie. It sounds like you and I are in the same boat. Or at least in the same waters. Oy very! Sigh...
> 
> The only difference is I only have myself to blame for the predicament I am in. I moved in in order to help care for granny. I knew exactly what I was getting into when we got married, as it happened a year later. While I don't regret my decision, I do wish some things were different.
> 
> ...


I just hope your DH is worth it!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> WARNING: VENT SESSION AHEAD! DONT READ IT IF YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN TO ME BITCH!
> 
> I don't know how you do it! You are a better person than I am, that's for sure! I had my mil day and night for nearly three weeks and I was ready to kill myself! She will never stay with us again! Her podiatrist wants to do surgery to straighten out her toes. He told her that we would be laid up for a little over two weeks. But I know with her, it will be months! She had prolapse surgery 20 years ago. They stayed with us for a month! She would only sleep in OUR bed and she wouldn't let her husband sleep with her. My husband and I ended up in bunk beds for a month! It was supposed to be a few days. She wouldn't even wipe herself! I told my husband that if she has the surgery, she will have to go to a nursing home to recover, because I will not do it!!! She just assumes that I will do it, but I will not! I can't deal with these things.
> 
> ...


I am fortunate that when MIL needed constant care DH moved her into assisted living near us. He visited her every day.

I did the shopping that was needed such as picking up scrips at the pharmacy and I got her some new article of clothing every so often. And I did most of the paperwork with her banking. We kept scrupulous records because DH has a brother and I did not want any hint that things with her $$ were not on the up and up.

Also, DH was retired and I was still working full time. I didn't want to retire, but when I was 68 the company had a layoff and if I left then I would get a severance package. Couldn't turn down being paid for 6 months not to work and keeping my dental insurance subsidized for that time, then somewhat subsidized with a COBRA.

MIL was mostly nasty to me, and DH kept his promise that she would never live under my roof. I am fortunate that he is a tough cookie and doesn't let anybody tread on me. And DD is fiercely protective of both of us.

I am amazed and super respectful of you ladies who are dealing with your curmudgeonly elders with the grace and strength you continue to demonstrate.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree with the others that you have every right to claim time for yourself. However, I see another side to what you are doing, too.
> 
> You are very selfless, I must say. And you have a good attitude about it. I'm glad, too, that you have your knitting and crochet and KP. I know how relaxing they can be.
> 
> I've known a few people like you, and I am impressed with their ability to be so giving and strong in the face of adversity. I don't think I could be so generous. I'd like to be, but probably couldn't. I hope that some day you will be rewarded in some way - maybe just by a whole lot of happiness - for these good things you're doing. I know we're of different religions, but that doesn't matter at all to me, especially when I tell you I believe you are doing God's work.


I agree with everything you have said Bonnie-- She and KFN are both on the spot in someways, but the thing is they are doing it while others turn their backs.

I had a very very difficult MIL and our whole lives were affected by her nastiness. No woman would ever be good enough (me) for her son. She made that clear, gossiped about me and this went on for years and years. I put up with it for a few years but it go so bad Pat just said no more. So he would go and visit her every Saturday morning and she would complain about what a terrible person he had married. He finally told her he wasn't going any more. We didn't see her for about 8 months . He was phoned by the hospital that she had had a stroke. I rushed down to see her and when I walked up to her bed around the curtains she said 
I KNEW you would come. I could always depend on your kindness". She did a l00% turn after that. She had done some thinking while we didn't go to see her.

His brother gave up on her years before - She had a dreadful time after that . Had both legs amputated and was in constant pain. It was so sad. We ended up letting the past go. Sad it took so many years.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh, wicked one! I confess I first thought of the French Maid's costume, too.


Great minds ------

What is your new avatar and its significance?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh honey, you are not wrong! No house is worth this! If you choose to stay and take care of Granny, insist on help. Let your mil pay someone else minimum wage. Let her find out what you are worth. Or YOU charge minimum wage. This is so not right! But IMO, you and your husband should go and build your life together. Rent an apartment, go visit Granny. How long can you go on if you're not appreciated?
> 
> I'll say this too, you probably won't get the house. Mil will get it. If you decide to stay and care for Granny, she should put it in your husband's and your name right now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do you have a local Office of the Aging? Is there any agency you can consult regarding granny? With your health issues, MIL is actually abusing you.
> 
> One fine morning, just stay in bed and tell the rest of them you are exhausted and cannot do anything. Be demanding as far as needing a glass of water, breakfast, lunch, assistance getting to the loo, assistance taking a shower so you do not collapse and hurt yourself. Make yourself a general PITA and get a good day's rest.


I like this.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks Bonnie, that means a lot. From what I understand you are like that with your family. As far as I'm concerned, granny is my family. I fell in love with her as soon as I met her and admire what dh has done for the past 2 decades. In fact, I don't know that I was so selfless and generous before I met him. He has changed me (for the better) in so many ways. Then again, the opportunity had never presented itself. You never know how you will react to a situation until it happens.
> 
> My mom always says something I'd like to share. At the end of the day, if you can look into the mirror and honestly tell yourself you do the right thing, then that's what matters.


Wise words from your mother.

You are an "appreciater," Natureschampion.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That's really neat! At the beginning of the summer, I started knitting angel wraps. I got a little over two knitted, now they're just wips. :-(


Very nice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I found this quite funny. We've blown through over $2000, in misc crap (eating out during long move etc), gas, you name it. When my husband presented her with an itemized statement for expenses that were definitely only hers (not including the $2000), she asked ME for the receipts. She also informed me that she's going to be changing her will to leave everything to our grandchildren. Not that I think that there will be anything left, but REALLY?!? GRRRR!


You're putting up with a lot of aggravation. Not easy, I'm sure.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Truly, I think Granny needs to be in a nursing home if her own children won't care for her. I don't know how you can start in a new marriage with so much responsibility and stress. My husband and I have been married for going on 38 years, and its taking a toll on us. I wish that I could give you some wonderful advice for coping but I'm not doing so well myself. I've always been a nurturer, but this is too much! My advice? Take your hubby and run!


KFN and NC - I'm so sorry you're in these circumstances. It would be very hard. I hope things get better for both of you soon.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you so much, bluejay! It seems that everything falls on the shoulders of women.


Bluejay, I'm so sorry to hear of your daughter's troubles - that is a very tough situation. I hope she finds another place soon. I'm sorry that I can't advise you. Maybe someone else on here can - or maybe you could throw the question out as a topic. There might be someone on KP who could advise.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with everything you have said Bonnie-- She and KFN are both on the spot in someways, but the thing is they are doing it while others turn their backs.
> 
> I had a very very difficult MIL and our whole lives were affected by her nastiness. No woman would ever be good enough (me) for her son. She made that clear, gossiped about me and this went on for years and years. I put up with it for a few years but it go so bad Pat just said no more. So he would go and visit her every Saturday morning and she would complain about what a terrible person he had married. He finally told her he wasn't going any more. We didn't see her for about 8 months . He was phoned by the hospital that she had had a stroke. I rushed down to see her and when I walked up to her bed around the curtains she said
> I KNEW you would come. I could always depend on your kindness". She did a l00% turn after that. She had done some thinking while we didn't go to see her.
> ...


Very sad - and very good of you to let it go and be there for her.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

NelsonJones said:


> Please don't post unless you're willing to be criticized.
> 
> That's, of course, fine if you can't/won't do it.
> 
> ...


You're back Vocal Lisa?

You of all people should know that this thread is 'Neutral' and snark is not acceptable.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

NelsonJones said:


> That's fine if you can't/won't do it.
> 
> Just stop pretending like you have no choice. From what I can see, you go along with her demands and then you whine about it.
> 
> ...


NelsonJones, I am wondering if you have ever been in a situation that you hated but were quite powerless to do anything about. When it comes to mils, etc., it is often not quite so easy to just say, Go to H---. A marriage might be jeopardized, or worse. Sometimes there is very little to do but just hope and try to enlist the help of others in the family, and often this is not an option. Thank goodness we can choose our friends; our relatives are thrust upon us.

But I find your remarks totally not in keeping with what this thread is supposed to be about. It is a place where one can tell one's troubles and not expect to be criticized. Keep that behaviour for other threads. On Neutral Bridges we go out of our way to be polite and helpful. We do not tolerate snarkiness or unkindness.

To all the fine ladies on this thread, I suggest that from here on in we totally ignore NelsonJones. We all know that if we give a bully no feedback, sooner or later they get tired and go away. Let us hope that NelsonJones just goes away if she can only be unkind and cruel. She is not welcome at this party if she can not be polite.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> WARNING: VENT SESSION AHEAD! DONT READ IT IF YOU DONT WANT TO LISTEN TO ME BITCH!
> 
> I don't know how you do it! You are a better person than I am, that's for sure! I had my mil day and night for nearly three weeks and I was ready to kill myself! She will never stay with us again! Her podiatrist wants to do surgery to straighten out her toes. He told her that we would be laid up for a little over two weeks. But I know with her, it will be months! She had prolapse surgery 20 years ago. They stayed with us for a month! She would only sleep in OUR bed and she wouldn't let her husband sleep with her. My husband and I ended up in bunk beds for a month! It was supposed to be a few days. She wouldn't even wipe herself! I told my husband that if she has the surgery, she will have to go to a nursing home to recover, because I will not do it!!! She just assumes that I will do it, but I will not! I can't deal with these things.
> 
> ...


Grrrr. Get it out sister!

I cannot imagine what the time was like that you described. It sounds awful! She wouldn't even let her husband sleep with her?! I know when I'm hurting, there's nowhere I'd rather be than in dh's arms, or at least know he is next to me. Aren't there "hotels" with some medical abilities?

I also can't imagine how someone could be so distant with their children and ESPECIALLY their grandchildren. Isn't that why people have children? So they can have grand kids one day? That's what my grandparents told me. Even today if my grandma has to do something with just the "kids" (her children, my generation is the "grand kids") she complains that she would rather be with us. Lol!

Just keep trekking. I know it's hard with a mil. The only thing mine has going for her is she is dh's mom. She loves her son in her way, regardless of how she shows it and uses him. Luckily, granny is usually sweet and very caring. She appreciates dh so much and will give me a hug from time to time (she is not a very affectionate woman by nature) just for giving her her pills or making her lunch. I vent (complain) right now only bc things are very tough at the moment due to the lack of a break. She has been more snappy with me, but I know she is getting anxious for some of the same reasons, plus not being able to do things herself. I'm trying my best to remain patient.

Oh! Btw, dh's cousin has been very helpful and is even giving me a chance to sleep in (if I can) and take care of granny's pills, BP, etc. she is also taking granny when she takes her daughter to college to see the campus. I am quite pleased and feel like a small load has been lifted. She even washed some Tupperware she found that was sticky! Granny has always put things away without cleaning them. The Tupperware could have been there for a decade for all I know. I have never used it. His cousin even implied that she knows that I make other people's (specifically mil) lives easier by being here. That validation meant so much. It helped a lot.

Sorry to cut into your vent time. I'll be thinking about you. PM me if you want to get more out that you might not want to put here, or if you just need a word of encouragement, whatever. We are totally together in this. One huge help is knowing you are not alone, IMO.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree that NelsonJones may seem impolite, but I think he's simply more blunt than we're used to hearing. Just my opinion.



BlueJay21 said:


> NelsonJones, I am wondering if you have ever been in a situation that you hated but were quite powerless to do anything about. When it comes to mils, etc., it is often not quite so easy to just say, Go to H---. A marriage might be jeopardized, or worse. Sometimes there is very little to do but just hope and try to enlist the help of others in the family, and often this is not an option. Thank goodness we can choose our friends; our relatives are thrust upon us.
> 
> But I find your remarks totally not in keeping with what this thread is supposed to be about. It is a place where one can tell one's troubles and not expect to be criticized. Keep that behaviour for other threads. On Neutral Bridges we go out of our way to be polite and helpful. We do not tolerate snarkiness or unkindness.
> 
> To all the fine ladies on this thread, I suggest that from here on in we totally ignore NelsonJones. We all know that if we give a bully no feedback, sooner or later they get tired and go away. Let us hope that NelsonJones just goes away if she can only be unkind and cruel. She is not welcome at this party if she can not be polite.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I just hope your DH is worth it!


Oh, he is. Have you ever seen the move "what dreams may come"? I would go to the depths of Tartarus (hell) to bring him back. So I guess like Orpheus and Eurydice, only I am Orpheus bc I am (somewhat) blind. Lol! But like what dreams may come bc we have been through so much and have been each other's partner through everything.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do it! Move!!!





Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Truly, I think Granny needs to be in a nursing home if her own children won't care for her. I don't know how you can start in a new marriage with so much responsibility and stress. My husband and I have been married for going on 38 years, and its taking a toll on us. I wish that I could give you some wonderful advice for coping but I'm not doing so well myself. I've always been a nurturer, but this is too much! My advice? Take your hubby and run!





Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh honey, you are not wrong! No house is worth this! If you choose to stay and take care of Granny, insist on help. Let your mil pay someone else minimum wage. Let her find out what you are worth. Or YOU charge minimum wage. This is so not right! But IMO, you and your husband should go and build your life together. Rent an apartment, go visit Granny. How long can you go on if you're not appreciated?
> 
> I'll say this too, you probably won't get the house. Mil will get it. If you decide to stay and care for Granny, she should put it in your husband's and your name right now.


We are planning on moving, but not now. This is dh's home, and HIS house. Granny has made that very clear. He made a commitment 20 years ago, and I will help in honoring that commitment.

This is definitely taking it's toll. We were doing this before we got married. I just remind myself " this, too, shall pass." Seriously, it helps. The hardest thing now is the fact that we can't go away with each other alone. Mil expected us to take granny on a week long vaca at HER cabin. This would have been the first trip we took after we got married, so it would have been our "honeymoon". So essentially, mil wanted us to take granny on our honeymoon and the first time we have been together well over a year. Wen I kinda asked her about this she's like, "I told you to take a vacation before I left." Well, dh has work and can't get away just whenever he wants. I told her, "well, sometimes life gets in the way." I did NOT tell her what I really thought, part of it that we shouldn't have to base OUR schedules on her for everything, especially not something like that. We didn't take the weeklong vaca (dh only gets 2 weeks a year, and even then hardly uses them), though we did take granny to the cabin for a couple days. When I discovered how much more cleaning it was at the end of the weekend, I decided that it wasn't worth it. I don't need to spend half the weekend cleaning. I can do that at home and get other things done in the process.

Hey, Sidenote: do you ever feel like you are super busy, but can't figure out if you are getting anything accomplished? I feel like that all the time.

Unfortunately, so much of our finances are used up since I haven't been working and paying for granny's food an whatnot, that we don't have the money to move even if we wanted to. We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I did tell dh that when his mom gets back, if this continues, that we will move out and his mom will have to be solely responsible for her mother. She won't like this bc it would cut into her vaca time. Come to think of it, she wouldn't like to hire someone bc she would have less control. Dh is so scared to say anything, including that I should get more help, bc he is afraid of losing the house. I told him that it wasn't worth it, but he has been counting on and putting so much into this house. I wish there was a way to ensure that we would get it, that there was no way someone could take it from us regardless of how they feel. I have thought about talking to granny about this. She wants dh to have the house more than anything. I would love to get minimum wage. When I tried to even get 59$ a week more than what I'm getting, mil blew up. I should tell her to hire someone, but I'm afraid she will start charging us rent (even though it is not her house and we still do things that if granny would have to pay someone would be more than rent), and there is no guarantee I would find a job in a Spanish speaking city that has little to no public transportation. It has also been quite a while since I have worked. I have been a student and/or not well most of my adult life. Like I said, a rock and a hard place.

Your last comment is exactly what I'm afraid of. She did say once (when she was in a good mood) that she had wanted to put the house in dh's name, but her tax guy said it would be more expensive for him. I don't know if she was actually trying to save him money or if she was trying to delay losing control of that aspect. She got infinitely more spiteful when we talked to her about money, so I don't know now. I just hope that her need for her sons love outweighs her spite, greed, and pettiness. I'm also afraid that in the end she will say " I paid you so much (out of granny's account mind you) over this amount of time, so you owe me this amount of money." Grrr, I just can't get over what she said about not blowing through her inheritance on granny's care. When my gm apologizes for using our inheritance to pay for her 24 hour in home care, I tell her I have no need for an inheritance but EVERY need for her to be happy, comfortable, and well cared for. I would do it, but she needs someone who can drive her to appointments when my father can't, and do other things I can't (mainly driving related). I feel that it IS a SHARED responsibility for any offspring (barring work, kids, and health) to share in the responsibility of the care for their parents/grandparents. They were there for them for at least 18 years after all, weren't they? Or at least most were. It sounds like your mil is an exception. Like I said, I can't stand to think about anyone outside of granny's family taking care of her. I am more than willing to share the responsibilities, but id rather it be with someone who knows and cares for granny.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> I assure you I would not have to explain whom or what I depict. Yes, Huckle would be very "visible" not vocal. MIL seems to have her focus on things other than sex. I approach everything out of the ordinary and try to weave humor into every situation. I am limiting my stay in the Kitchen to emergencies. I retired from some chores. Love that freedom to do what I really like, creating some even useless things.


You are my kind of woman, Huck!

I love these pieces. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Thank you for the validation. I thought it was important to say something.


And what you said was greatly appreciated.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do you have a local Office of the Aging? Is there any agency you can consult regarding granny? With your health issues, MIL is actually abusing you.
> 
> One fine morning, just stay in bed and tell the rest of them you are exhausted and cannot do anything. Be demanding as far as needing a glass of water, breakfast, lunch, assistance getting to the loo, assistance taking a shower so you do not collapse and hurt yourself. Make yourself a general PITA and get a good day's rest.


I actually DO feel like I am being abused. Thanks for the validation! I thought maybe in was just being sensitive?

I don't know about a local office of the aging. I know the state helps with seniors that are financially qualified, which granny isn't. They also can't help with getting granny's daughter to help more.

I have decided, at least for now, to spare granny's pride in knowing that someone needs to keep an eye on her so much that it is a vocation. She has had so much taken from her. Mil threatened to get her involved when we (I) asked for a little more financial help. Maybe I should have taken her up on that, but at the time I could not bear the thought of hurting granny's pride.

I had to play that part for so many years, I just couldn't do it now. For over ten years I DID need assistance with EVERYTHING. I do let granny know if I need to "rest" a bit, and she is quite understanding. As it is, I just could not stay bedridden all day unless I ABSOLUTELY had to. I just could not pull it off at this point. Having someone do everything for me now would drive me nuts. I do need a day for just me, but if I'm here I will get up to do things. I did once have a day with my mom and sis after a dentist appointment, but it was a nightmare asking mil to take me out there and my father ended up having to come get me (have I mentioned how amazing my parents are). The reason it was a nightmare? Mil didn't want to move her golf game and thought I should sacrifice my time with my family (whom I rarely get to see since I started taking care of granny) in order for her or her husband to be able to take me to the dentist. The only reason I had to go when I did and not a few weeks later was bc she was going to be leaving for so long and I didn't know if I could leave granny for that long. As it happened, I almost didn't go to the dentist, and had ALREADY canceled one appointment bc granny was acting very "off". As it turned out, she did have a UTI, which I knew. I always know when she has one. No one else does. I can't tell you how many times she has come back from her daughters with very apparent (mostly mental) signs of a UTI. She also reminds me that I don't drive and she has to take granny to her appointments. Once in a while she will ask if granny needs something from the market, but only if she has time to kill btwn appointments or if granny is at hairdresser. She is " helping" a little more while she is gone and said it was only bc I had to go with granny to her appointments ( when even before she left I am the one who waited at the airport with granny while mil went off for a friends night. This was at a very bad time for granny (the week after first UTI and VERY bad and she was still on antibiotics, which can be very dangerous for the elderly especially on Coumadin) and I was worried about her going to see her sister at all. My dad (a physician) assured me that she would be fine as long as someone was there to see her on and off the plane. So when I found out mil was planning on dropping granny off at the curb with no one to administer her meds or anything, just to make it to her dinner, I felt I had to go, and wanted to.

What's a PITA?

I want to go for a day to my parents house to decompress and just KNIT, but weekdays we need someone with granny and weekends we have so much to do. Hopefully I will be able to get some R&R after mil gets back. I am also very worried that she will use my "inabilities" as an excuse to short change me on financial help, or charge us for help if we need it. Like her saying, "well, you didn't work as much this day bc you needed rest, you didn't work as much this day bc you had an eye doctor..." As it is, she doesn't "help" me for a day if she had granny for a few hours. Many time there is more work for me after she has granny bc she rushes granny around and over exerts her. The sad thing is granny knows her daughter is "too busy" for her and always in a rush to get back to her life. She has almost no patience with granny. I hate the way she talks to her sometimes. She has also not "helped" me a week bc she had granny for 2 days (I only expected 5 days "help" she didn't give me any.). She has also "forgotten" to " help" me, and when dh reminded her, she said "well, you ARE getting the house..." This woman makes me sick but I can't stand the thought of not caring for granny.

I heard that the 2 main causes of fights in marriages are in laws and finances. Oy vey!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

bonbf3 said:


> KFN and NC - I'm so sorry you're in these circumstances. It would be very hard. I hope things get better for both of you soon.


You know, Bonnie, just talking to y'all has helped more than you know! Thanks!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with everything you have said Bonnie-- She and KFN are both on the spot in someways, but the thing is they are doing it while others turn their backs.
> 
> I had a very very difficult MIL and our whole lives were affected by her nastiness. No woman would ever be good enough (me) for her son. She made that clear, gossiped about me and this went on for years and years. I put up with it for a few years but it go so bad Pat just said no more. So he would go and visit her every Saturday morning and she would complain about what a terrible person he had married. He finally told her he wasn't going any more. We didn't see her for about 8 months . He was phoned by the hospital that she had had a stroke. I rushed down to see her and when I walked up to her bed around the curtains she said
> I KNEW you would come. I could always depend on your kindness". She did a l00% turn after that. She had done some thinking while we didn't go to see her.
> ...


Very inspiring story, Shirley. Thanks for sharing!

It's so good to hear that pat was so supportive of you, but that he still tried with his mom. I am so glad you were able to move past everything and that she ended up appreciating you. It is sad it took so long, but at least it happened.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Thanks again everyone for your support and encouragement. It has been invaluable. I hope one day I can return the favor. You mean so much to me. 

I'm sorry that I didn't get to all your posts, especially bluejay. It sounds like you have been through quite a lot as well. I just wanted to reply to posts that were directed at/applied to me as not to be rude, and have not had the time to go back to others. I did try to go back to reply to some but couldn't find them and my eyes are getting bad again. Just know I'm thinking of all of you and am interested in your lives as well. I feel totally selfish right now for manipulating/hogging the conversation. I'm sorry! 

Bless you all and I hope to "see" you tomorrow (today? It's 220am)! 

Hugs

NC


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Just a spot for me to talk. I am not looking for sympathy but just need to get it off my chest so I can breathe. 

I had an email from my daughter this morning stating that her husband is in hospital facing an operation on his lumbar spine on Thursday. He is heavily sedated. At last it is being cleared and the problem will end. 

He has been in constant and unimaginable pain for the past two weeks. He hurt his neck putting a string of lights up on the back patio. Daughter took him to the doctors the next morning, they thought the pain would ease overnight. The doctor diagnosed nerve pain, due to a virus, similar to shingles. Several visits to the doctor,several different medications, doctors just said it is a virus, let it run its course. 

He had returned from a camping trip to South Africa about a week before this. He and his mate took a party on a photographic tour of South Africa, Paul is a professional photographer. 

Then someone told her to take him to the Joondalup Hospital, they would admit him and things would then be examined, re virus or what? 

Public hospitals over here are now public/private joint hospitals to save the government money. Joondalup Hospital gets a bad name for their care. 

He went to the hospital on Monday night. After sitting in the ER waiting room for 5 hours he finally was seen by the doctor. They took some xrays and said he had injured his lumbar spine, with protruding disc and compressed nerves. Then asked my daughter if she had private health insurance, yes, top cover. So they said they would make appointments for MRI and to see a private surgeon in the morning. Go home and phone us in the morning. 

She rang me yesterday morning, Tuesday and told me he had the appointments and she was arranging for someone to take her classes, she teaches nursing at TAFE. 

I did not phone her last night, I thought she would be under stress. But this morning the email from her said Paul was in hospital, heavily sedated and being operated on Thursday. She rang a little later and asked if I could go down and pick up the youngest from High School as he was at the point of collapse, worrying about his dad. The oldest had not gone to school, worrying had started his nose bleeding session again, he suffers from bad nose bleeds. He was in bed, also at the point of collapse with worry. The boys adore their dad. 

Yes, I went down and picked up Connor and reassured him that his dad was in good hands. His mum had seen the specialists and had booked him into a private hospital. I am so glad she did this, the hospital she chose is a great hospital.

Well I spent several hours with the boys, reassuring them, telling them dad was in good hands. They knew how much pain he was in. I told them he was heavily sedated and not in very much, if any, pain at the moment. I bought them both lunch, let them choose whatever they wanted. Then they asked if they could phone the hospital, I told them of course they could. They were put through to their dad's ward and spoke to him. They were amazed, they said he sounded so much calmer and he told them he was almost pain free and waiting for the op tomorrow. 

But boy has this taken a toll of me. I was worried that he had picked up some dreaded virus in South Africa. Poor daughter is at the  point of collapse. 

No, she did not want me to come down and cook for her. She belongs to the Mormon church and they are genuine Christians and caring. Ladies from the church have been bringing cooked meals over for her, she said she is in an excellent ward of the church where she lives. Paul's mother is also at the end of her tether but the church ladies are also taking care of her.

I think it is good to hear that there are genuine Christian ladies in this world. Ladies who care and look after members when they are in trouble.

No, I am not a member of the Mormon Church, as I have said I am a Buddhist but I can acknowledge true Christian acts when I see them.

Thanks for letting me try and clear my head, but I am still worried about Paul. He is such a wonderful man. An excellent husband and father. You would all love him.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> Just a spot for me to talk. I am not looking for sympathy but just need to get it off my chest so I can breathe.
> 
> I had an email from my daughter this morning stating that her husband is in hospital facing an operation on his lumbar spine on Thursday. He is heavily sedated. At last it is being cleared and the problem will end.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing, eve. Keep us posted, please.

I'm sorry to hear what you have been through. I'm glad that it is not a virus as well, and hope he only needs the one operation. I am just waiting for the day dh needs one. He has 3 or 4 herniated discs from a work injury 15 years ago. He suffers through it, and I am worried he will hurt himself beyond repair.

It's good to know that you are caring for your grandsons, and that your daughter has such a strong support network. It is very important. Know that you have emotional support here! I, too, am not Christian, but I love to hear when people are so supportive. We have that too in the Jewish communities, especially when there is a death. It is tradition for the mourners not to do housework or cook, and the community members will take it upon themselves to bring meals over and do some light cleaning or straightening up. They help in more cases than just a death, but my most recent experience with this community is when my gp died this past September. It was so heartwarming to see everyone who came in support at the funeral and shivas (nights public mourning following a funeral). Gm had more than enough food for the week (it was my mom who was relieved of preparing food for gm), and there was even enough for me to take some home so I could observe the mourning traditions. As I write this, I am getting choked up. Sorry to talk about me, I just thought it applied.

Please please please keep us posted. You will be much in my thoughts. I will be sending very positive and caring vibes your way. They have a long distance to travel, but I'm sure they will find you and your family.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Just a spot for me to talk. I am not looking for sympathy but just need to get it off my chest so I can breathe.
> 
> I had an email from my daughter this morning stating that her husband is in hospital facing an operation on his lumbar spine on Thursday. He is heavily sedated. At last it is being cleared and the problem will end.
> 
> ...


Eve, I'm so sorry to hear about your sil. I pray that the surgery brings him relief. The stress of an acute situation takes it's toll. All of you will need to take special care of yourselves also as your stress levels begin to drop. You'll all be exhausted even with good results. I'm very grateful that your family has help in this difficult time. My thoughts are with you. Please keep us updated.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

NelsonJones said:


> That's fine if you can't/won't do it.
> 
> Just stop pretending like you have no choice. From what I can see, you go along with her demands and then you whine about it.
> 
> ...


Too harsh, in my opinion. You could have said the same thing in a more supportive way.

It's easy for some of us to tell others how to solve their problems, but we are not IN her situation. We cannot presume to know the whole story, and we don't live her life. All our lives are complex with many important relationships, and our decisions cannot be dismissed so easily.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Just a spot for me to talk. I am not looking for sympathy but just need to get it off my chest so I can breathe.
> 
> I had an email from my daughter this morning stating that her husband is in hospital facing an operation on his lumbar spine on Thursday. He is heavily sedated. At last it is being cleared and the problem will end.
> 
> ...


Eve, I can only tell you my experience. My husband had a disk like that in his back - terrible pain, on strong medication for weeks, could barely walk, could barely sit, couldn't work. Just awful. He had surgery - woke up - and the pain was GONE! It was the best thing he had ever done.

That was 35 years ago, and medicine has come a long way since then. I hope and pray your son-in-law has such a good result.

You were perfect for the boys - taking them out and relieving their anxiety. Sometime it's hard (for me)to know what to do, but I think you were right on target. It must have been such a relief for them to have you come and take care of them and ease their minds.

I'm a Christian, not a Mormon, but I have the greatest respect for them. They live their faith. I'm glad they're helping your daughter.

Best of luck to all of you. Such a nightmare to go through this - I am hoping for the best possible outcome.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Dear ladies, like many others I bitch and complain when things go awry, but honestly, when I read your stories my life seems like a bed of roses. I hope I never have to go through what some of you are going through and have gone through. Although I sometimes think I have been hard done by, really I have nothing to complain about. My thoughts go out to all of you that there comes an end to the strife. It is hard to go through some of these trials but I hope for a good outcome for all of you. We are here for you, even if we can't help. I know that sometimes just being able to talk, or write, about what is bothering us helps tremendously. And sometimes there is nothing else to do but just keep going. It seems to be universal that if someone is taking care of our old people then others in the family see no need to help. And sometimes they just don't know what to do to help. And then, again, sometimes they just want someone else to shoulder the burden. You are all doing an admirable job and kudos to you. My thoughts are with you.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Paul is such a gentle soul, he really is just a big kid, even though he a approaching 50 years of age. I was going to say, even though he has grand ideas at times, but no that is not fair, he just has dreams like everyone. He is always going to make his million, but I think he knows that will not happen. He is to quick to help others in need. He charges around the house and plays with the boys, just like a mad teenager. But the boys know I will always be there for them. I have looked after them and baby sat them all their lives. We spent the first hour of my visit just reliving old memories. Remembering what we did together when they were toddlers, where we went, what we did. Yes, I spoiled. them but I was working full time then and could afford it. I had them laughing at the memories. It is now 11.22 pm and his op is scheduled for early morning, so not much longer.

My daughter is worried because she remembers her dad and the pain and trauma when he hurt his back. That was way back in 1966 and he could not work at all for several months and then only on light duties. They finally operated in 1968 and he spent two weeks in hospital afterwards. You can still see the scar and possibly still count the sutures. He had over 40 sutures in the wound after the operation. He still has a lean to starboard and still has pain at times. At the time workers compensation was not what it is today, you only received 60% of your weekly wages and had to be off work for 6 weeks before you received a penny. We were lucky I was working full time. I was working as a secretary to the Credit Manager of a large building supply company and my salary was higher than my husband's base salary. There was a compensation scheme, $100 compensation for every 1% mobility or loss of use you sustained. He sustained a 25% loss of use and mobility but he did not receive a penny. Why? Because the firm he worked for did the right thing for him and made him a foreman and the insurance company argued that he had not suffered as a result of his injury, in fact he had gained - he had been made a foreman. The firm said if they had known that they would not have given him the raise until after he received the payout. $2,500 does not sound a lot today but back in 1968 it was. You could still buy a house for under $10,000 then. But all that is bye the bye. Paul is self employed with his gallery and unfortunately he does not have any unemployment insurance. His mother helps him out in the gallery and she has said that she will run the gallery for him full time until he is 100% fit. She is a little older than I am, she will be 79 next birthday. Paul does have private health insurance but it will not cover all the bills from the specialists. The hospital bills will be almost covered but the specialists often charge over and above the recommended fee. My daughter has asked if they can borrow some money from me if they need it, and I think they will, just to get by for the the while. I told her not to worry, I can get the money on the reverse mortgage on the house. I have done this before when they hit a snag about 15 years ago. They will pay me back so there is no worry there.

But, thanks everyone for your kind thoughts. I know Paul believes in the power of prayer, so I will tell my daughter that KP members are thinking of them and wish them well. Paul is always the first one to offer people a blessing when they are having problems. I understand that offering a blessing is a big part of the Mormon Church. I told my daughter that I am sending healing vibes.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Paul is such a gentle soul, he really is just a big kid, even though he a approaching 50 years of age. I was going to say, even though he has grand ideas at times, but no that is not fair, he just has dreams like everyone. He is always going to make his million, but I think he knows that will not happen. He is to quick to help others in need. He charges around the house and plays with the boys, just like a mad teenager. But the boys know I will always be there for them. I have looked after them and baby sat them all their lives. We spent the first hour of my visit just reliving old memories. Remembering what we did together when they were toddlers, where we went, what we did. Yes, I spoiled. them but I was working full time then and could afford it. I had them laughing at the memories. It is now 11.22 pm and his op is scheduled for early morning, so not much longer.
> 
> My daughter is worried because she remembers her dad and the pain and trauma when he hurt his back. That was way back in 1966 and he could not work at all for several months and then only on light duties. They finally operated in 1968 and he spent two weeks in hospital afterwards. You can still see the scar and possibly still count the sutures. He had over 40 sutures in the wound after the operation. He still has a lean to starboard and still has pain at times. At the time workers compensation was not what it is today, you only received 60% of your weekly wages and had to be off work for 6 weeks before you received a penny. We were lucky I was working full time. I was working as a secretary to the Credit Manager of a large building supply company and my salary was higher than my husband's base salary. There was a compensation scheme, $100 compensation for every 1% mobility or loss of use you sustained. He sustained a 25% loss of use and mobility but he did not receive a penny. Why? Because the firm he worked for did the right thing for him and made him a foreman and the insurance company argued that he had not suffered as a result of his injury, in fact he had gained - he had been made a foreman. The firm said if they had known that they would not have given him the raise until after he received the payout. $2,500 does not sound a lot today but back in 1968 it was. You could still buy a house for under $10,000 then. But all that is bye the bye. Paul is self employed with his gallery and unfortunately he does not have any unemployment insurance. His mother helps him out in the gallery and she has said that she will run the gallery for him full time until he is 100% fit. She is a little older than I am, she will be 79 next birthday. Paul does have private health insurance but it will not cover all the bills from the specialists. The hospital bills will be almost covered but the specialists often charge over and above the recommended fee. My daughter has asked if they can borrow some money from me if they need it, and I think they will, just to get by for the the while. I told her not to worry, I can get the money on the reverse mortgage on the house. I have done this before when they hit a snag about 15 years ago. They will pay me back so there is no worry there.
> 
> But, thanks everyone for your kind thoughts. I know Paul believes in the power of prayer, so I will tell my daughter that KP members are thinking of them and wish them well. Paul is always the first one to offer people a blessing when they are having problems. I understand that offering a blessing is a big part of the Mormon Church. I told my daughter that I am sending healing vibes.


Eve, I will add Paul to my prayers, along with the rest of you. I'm sorry your family has to go through this. I'll be thinking of you.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Great minds ------
> 
> What is your new avatar and its significance?


It is a blacksmith striking an anvil. My husband was docent at a blacksmithing museum for many years, and we are still friends of the museum. I just retired as treasurer. Our season is beginning, and I found this blacksmith smiley. I don't know how to download him to make him hit the anvil as he should. And I lost the forum code for him. If I find it I will post it in action.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is a blacksmith striking an anvil. My husband was docent at a blacksmithing museum for many years, and we are still friends of the museum. I just retired as treasurer. Our season is beginning, and I found this blacksmith smiley. I don't know how to download him to make him hit the anvil as he should. And I lost the forum code for him. If I find it I will post it in action.


Unusual. It would be fun to see him move.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I came late to this party. I was just trying to figure out Nelson, but looked back and saw that it had already been done. So I deleted.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


Good news! He weathered quite a storm - so glad he's doing well now.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Always happy to hear good news Ms Eve.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


I am so pleased that Paul is on the mend.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> I am so pleased that Paul is on the mend.


I agree - I have checked NB each evening and once or twice during the day. We have the movers coming in an hour to give us a quote and then we will start on the kitchen. We are doing a bit at a time and still are not sure of our moving date. We are flying to Vancouver island for 3 or 4 days in early Sept. to find a place and we will be out of here about the 26th of Sept. at the latest. quite an exciting time - I am tired, but actually the worst is over.We just have the kitchen to do and then the cleaning - Kelly says the weather is wonderful. He and my gd are going camping tomorrow with friends of theirs who live out there. Lots of friends for my GD so she is happy. I will try to get on again tonight. Glad this is a warm place to land for those who are stressed. that is what it was set up for - sqm you did a good job starting this thread.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - I have checked NB each evening and once or twice during the day. We have the movers coming in an hour to give us a quote and then we will start on the kitchen. We are doing a bit at a time and still are not sure of our moving date. We are flying to Vancouver island for 3 or 4 days in early Sept. to find a place and we will be out of here about the 26th of Sept. at the latest. quite an exciting time - I am tired, but actually the worst is over.We just have the kitchen to do and then the cleaning - Kelly says the weather is wonderful. He and my gd are going camping tomorrow with friends of theirs who live out there. Lots of friends for my GD so she is happy. I will try to get on again tonight. Glad this is a warm place to land for those who are stressed. that is what it was set up for - sqm you did a good job starting this thread.


Hi, Shirley - glad it's going well. It's good to hear from you. I agree - SQM did a good job starting this thread, and it seems to get better with time.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Please do not give me credit. All I did was post one post after many people said they were tired from fighting. It is all of you who make this thread, not me. But thanks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm glad.



EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


Good to hear! Were they able to "fix" the problem? Or is it too soon to tell? I think once Paul is home and settled, you and your daughter should have a "girls day". Pamper BOTH of you. I'm sure you already thought about doing this for her, but I am also sure she would enjoy it and relax much more if she knew you were mutually benefitted. You are both troopers and deserve it. I'm certain she would agree. Has your daughter been home or is she sleeping at the hospital? Have you continued to care for your grandsons? How are they doing? It sounds like they are as close to their father as I am to mine, and I just cannot imagine what they are going through. It was hard enough when my dad had complications from just blood being drawn before his hip replacement.

Please pass on my geniality, support and blessings to your family (including your in laws) I have been thinking much of you. May Karma and Fate continue to shine kindly on you.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - I have checked NB each evening and once or twice during the day. We have the movers coming in an hour to give us a quote and then we will start on the kitchen. We are doing a bit at a time and still are not sure of our moving date. We are flying to Vancouver island for 3 or 4 days in early Sept. to find a place and we will be out of here about the 26th of Sept. at the latest. quite an exciting time - I am tired, but actually the worst is over.We just have the kitchen to do and then the cleaning - Kelly says the weather is wonderful. He and my gd are going camping tomorrow with friends of theirs who live out there. Lots of friends for my GD so she is happy. I will try to get on again tonight. Glad this is a warm place to land for those who are stressed. that is what it was set up for - sqm you did a good job starting this thread.


Wow, it's all coming together, isn't it? Sounds like you will be ready before you need to be! Go you! I have seldom experienced that kind of accomplishment. You have inspired me to start going through things and getting rid of them. If you can do it, I can do it, right? Lol!! I don't know if your remember the convo last month about that saying, that's why I put it and thought it was funny.

Well, the end of September is only a month away. I will have to use you as an excuse to revisit BC. You said you were moving to Vancouver island, right? How far from Victoria? I just love Bushard (sp?) gardens. I haven't been there since I was in high school, but it was such a magical place. I revisit it during meditation.

This is the perfect place for people who are stressed and/or need to share something (positive things too). I know I feel much more relieved after getting some things out and the warm and supportive responses. Sometimes all we need is a little validation or something.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Please do not give me credit. All I did was post one post after many people said they were tired from fighting. It is all of you who make this thread, not me. But thanks.


Stop doing that!!  We know it is all the contributors who keep this thread the way it is, but we also appreciate the fact that you are the one who had the gumption to START it. That is all. In many posts we are all thanking someone/everyone for some thing or other. Starting this thread is just one of the many thanks given specifically to you.

Thank you, everyone, for keeping this place such a wonderful place to visit! It has been very beneficial, fun, and enlightening. Among other things.

There, sloth, ya happy? :wink:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


EveMCooke
thank you for the update. So good to hear that all went well.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Does anyone besides me have trouble with general chit-chat when the whole world is in a mess and people everywhere are hurting? I'm not trying to downplay personal problems, and I hope everyone's home worries, personal problems, and general tsuris diminish, but our world seems to need some strong shoulders to raise it up these days.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


Eve, I'm so glad that the surgery is done and that he's on the mend. I feel bad that the surgery was more extensive than they thought but thank goodness he didn't have to wait any longer than he did. I will pray for a full recovery. You can all let out a big sigh. Take care!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree - I have checked NB each evening and once or twice during the day. We have the movers coming in an hour to give us a quote and then we will start on the kitchen. We are doing a bit at a time and still are not sure of our moving date. We are flying to Vancouver island for 3 or 4 days in early Sept. to find a place and we will be out of here about the 26th of Sept. at the latest. quite an exciting time - I am tired, but actually the worst is over.We just have the kitchen to do and then the cleaning - Kelly says the weather is wonderful. He and my gd are going camping tomorrow with friends of theirs who live out there. Lots of friends for my GD so she is happy. I will try to get on again tonight. Glad this is a warm place to land for those who are stressed. that is what it was set up for - sqm you did a good job starting this thread.


Shirley, I'm glad things are going well but I'm afraid you're doing to much. You take care of yourself! Do you have to sell your home or are you renting it? I hope you're renting so that you don't have to deal with it. It would be nice to just take off and go. I hope you find the perfect place! How old is your granddaughter? If I've heard you say before, I don't remember.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm glad.


Me too!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> Does anyone besides me have trouble with general chit-chat when the whole world is in a mess and people everywhere are hurting? I'm not trying to downplay personal problems, and I hope everyone's home worries, personal problems, and general tsuris diminish, but our world seems to need some strong shoulders to raise it up these days.


Amen!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh, he is. Have you ever seen the move "what dreams may come"? I would go to the depths of Tartarus (hell) to bring him back. So I guess like Orpheus and Eurydice, only I am Orpheus bc I am (somewhat) blind. Lol! But like what dreams may come bc we have been through so much and have been each other's partner through everything.


I am relieved on your behalf. Having a partner who is "your other half" does make your life whole. And I am happy to hear that you have other relatives who appreciate you and are taking some of the work upon themselves so you can regroup and have some time for you. You know we are your "rest of the family" and you can vent your frustrations and we will hold your hand and pat your back. Glad to be part of your safety valve network.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Just a spot for me to talk. I am not looking for sympathy but just need to get it off my chest so I can breathe.
> 
> I had an email from my daughter this morning stating that her husband is in hospital facing an operation on his lumbar spine on Thursday. He is heavily sedated. At last it is being cleared and the problem will end.
> 
> ...


Eve, it is Thursday night here in the Eastern Daylight time zone. I hope Paul has had successful surgery and will recover fully. If he has good muscle tone to start with, it should help with his recovery. I Truly hope he is as much a success story as my husband, who has had two back surgeries at what must be a much greater age than Paul.

My husband had surgery on his 5th lumbar about 15 years ago. It was bad; the bone was beginning to abrade the spinal cord. After the incision healed and internal healing was well under way, the surgeon had him do strengthening exercises in a pool. Then about 3 years ago he started having back pain again, and needed the 4th lumbar operated upon. The original surgeon, the man with the golden hands, was retired, but we found the surgeon to whom he had entrusted his patient list. D was 75 at the time of the second surgery, and again has recovered very well. And at his age, arthritis is bothering his joints, too.

His problems started when he was in his early 20's and in the Army signal corps. He had to move heavy teletype equipment and it injured his back.

Please let your daughter and grandchildren know my dear's success story if you think it will bolster their morale and ease their worries.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see only trouble with no end in sight. Maybe Ebola will just do its stuff.



cookiequeen said:


> Does anyone besides me have trouble with general chit-chat when the whole world is in a mess and people everywhere are hurting? I'm not trying to downplay personal problems, and I hope everyone's home worries, personal problems, and general tsuris diminish, but our world seems to need some strong shoulders to raise it up these days.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what friends are for.



MarilynKnits said:


> I am relieved on your behalf. Having a partner who is "your other half" does make your life whole. And I am happy to hear that you have other relatives who appreciate you and are taking some of the work upon themselves so you can regroup and have some time for you. You know we are your "rest of the family" and you can vent your frustrations and we will hold your hand and pat your back. Glad to be part of your safety valve network.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks for sharing, eve. Keep us posted, please.
> 
> I'm sorry to hear what you have been through. I'm glad that it is not a virus as well, and hope he only needs the one operation. I am just waiting for the day dh needs one. He has 3 or 4 herniated discs from a work injury 15 years ago. He suffers through it, and I am worried he will hurt himself beyond repair.
> 
> ...


Champ, if possible have your sweetie have an mri of his back to see what the damage is. D had imaging done and a neurological scan, and the surgeon was given the CD. He was able to show us a 3D of exactly where the problem was, the extent of the problem, and explain how he was going to do the surgery. If surgery is done before it becomes an absolute must, the recovery is easier and of course the surgery is less fraught with danger.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just had an update from my daughter. It seems that Paul's operation was more complicated than expected. The damage was worse than they thought. He lost over a litre of blood during an operation when he should not have lost any blood so he received blood transfusions. He is fragile but on the mend. They will keep him in hospital until at least Tuesday instead of letting him home on Saturday. But, he is on the mend. Daughter is relieved if exhausted. I am also relieved. I spoke to his mother and she said she can now relax. She is going to make herself a cuppa herbal tea as that is allowed by the church.


As long as there is no caffeine in the tea it should be fine. Whatever is needed to help her.

In Judaism, it is not considered an issue if religious proscriptions are overlooked if a person's health is at stake. We are not supposed to ride on the Sabbath, but if a person needs to go to the hospital, it is more of a sin to overlook the health need than to ride. Life and health are the foremost concern.

I am happy for you that Paul is healing. What a relief for all of you who love him!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Does anyone besides me have trouble with general chit-chat when the whole world is in a mess and people everywhere are hurting? I'm not trying to downplay personal problems, and I hope everyone's home worries, personal problems, and general tsuris diminish, but our world seems to need some strong shoulders to raise it up these days.


This topic seems to be the place where we take turns being the strong shoulders and helping hands to one another. The older we are, the more we have been through in our lives unless we have been extraordinarily fortunate, and we have developed the tools to deal with adversity.

For myself, I have had supportive friends and family through various sad and worrisome times, and my way of thanking them is to pay it forward. I also feel the need to be a cheering squad to the folks dealing with issues that could break a person.

And here we have a safe place to vent as well. I know Champ and Nebraska would risk bad feelings within their families if they vented at home. But they would go nuts if they could not voice their concerns and frustrations. So we can be the extended family who will be there to support them and any others of us who need the virtual arm around the shoulder and hug.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am relieved on your behalf. Having a partner who is "your other half" does make your life whole. And I am happy to hear that you have other relatives who appreciate you and are taking some of the work upon themselves so you can regroup and have some time for you. You know we are your "rest of the family" and you can vent your frustrations and we will hold your hand and pat your back. Glad to be part of your safety valve network.


And I'm so fortunate and happy to have y'all! You have been a tremendous help!

I just wish this cousin who is helping lived closer. Ah, se la vie and all. I'm just glad I have this bit of time, and that I have you to turn to for the rest of the time. Hehe


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> This topic seems to be the place where we take turns being the strong shoulders and helping hands to one another. The older we are, the more we have been through in our lives unless we have been extraordinarily fortunate, and we have developed the tools to deal with adversity.
> 
> For myself, I have had supportive friends and family through various sad and worrisome times, and my way of thanking them is to pay it forward. I also feel the need to be a cheering squad to the folks dealing with issues that could break a person.
> 
> And here we have a safe place to vent as well. I know Champ and Nebraska would risk bad feelings within their families if they vented at home. But they would go nuts if they could not voice their concerns and frustrations. So we can be the extended family who will be there to support them and any others of us who need the virtual arm around the shoulder and hug.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Shirley, I'm glad things are going well but I'm afraid you're doing to much. You take care of yourself! Do you have to sell your home or are you renting it? I hope you're renting so that you don't have to deal with it. It would be nice to just take off and go. I hope you find the perfect place! How old is your granddaughter? If I've heard you say before, I don't remember.


=======
She is a wonderful l0 year old who is the light of our lives!

Yes things are really falling into place. We had the movers come and give us an estimate today and have booked them for Sept. 23. We should be leaving on the 24th. So things are really coming together. We are renting a condo and will do the same there. We have needed to sort out our 'stuff' for a long time and it hasn't been bad at all. We are selling our couch and chair - we have talked about it for some time and decided to do so - we will buy a new set when we get there. We have moved many times over the 59 years we have been married and we are pretty good at it. We make decisions easily and usually are on the same page about the big things. I have done all the arranging on the computer and have also listed all the apartments for rent in the area where we want to live. We are flying out and will stay with our son and family for 3 or 4 days and look for an apartment. We have a couple in the works. We will fly out on the 4th or 5th of September.

Everything is falling into place and working well.

We have the worst behind us. Just have the kitchen to do and also I am making a page with pictures of what we want to sell and will be putting it in each of the buildings here - if we don't sell stuff we will give it to charity. It is handy for those who have just arrived to buy some of our things fairly cheaply until they get settled. We shall see.

I am a bit weary . One of my friends took me out for dinner yesterday, and we decided to walk across a newly completed bridge and have coffee at a coffee shop which was quite a walk. I was wiped out when I got home but I had a wonderful time with a very good friend. All we did was laugh we have been friends for ll years.

The swimming group is going to take me out for lunch sometime after we return from the Island. Two others have invited us out for lunch so we are being treated royally.

I am meeting a KP friend on the 27th before they fly out of Calgary and home to the Channel Islands - I have known her on the tea party (knitting TP} and they have been holidaying all through the Canadian Rockies. The weather has been great - they went white water rafting in Jasper today. They have had a great trip. I am looking forward to meeting a 2nd online friend from KP in the last two months. The other was from Australia - good friends from around the world.

I am still working on my pullover - not getting very far but should have more time once I finish sorting out the kitchen.

I am really looking forward to the Island. It is a beautiful place. Kelly (my son) just phoned - they are at Cowichan Lake camping for 3 days. Their daughter has already made many friends there. The Air Canada Family (He worked on the ramp and his wife is a flight attendant ) have a lot of friends all over Canada. 3 Families are Air Canada employees and everyone knows everyone across the country! Nice for them. DIl won't retire for awhile and will keep on flying. Kelly is retired and is a house husband and looks after their daughter. We have looked after her a lot and we are very close so it is good.
Our daughter works for the other Canadian airlines west jet

We get a good rate for flying on all our trips. Nice.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> =======
> She is a wonderful l0 year old who is the light of our lives!
> 
> Yes things are really falling into place. We had the movers come and give us an estimate today and have booked them for Sept. 23. We should be leaving on the 24th. So things are really coming together. We are renting a condo and will do the same there. We have needed to sort out our 'stuff' for a long time and it hasn't been bad at all. We are selling our couch and chair - we have talked about it for some time and decided to do so - we will buy a new set when we get there. We have moved many times over the 59 years we have been married and we are pretty good at it. We make decisions easily and usually are on the same page about the big things. I have done all the arranging on the computer and have also listed all the apartments for rent in the area where we want to live. We are flying out and will stay with our son and family for 3 or 4 days and look for an apartment. We have a couple in the works. We will fly out on the 4th or 5th of September.
> ...


Shirley, I'm so glad things are falling into place so nicely. I'll bet your granddaughter will love having you nearby. Ten year old girls are especially nice to be around.

It's so nice that your friends are giving you royal treatment. I'm sure they'll miss you.

Keep on keepin' on - sounds great!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> This topic seems to be the place where we take turns being the strong shoulders and helping hands to one another. The older we are, the more we have been through in our lives unless we have been extraordinarily fortunate, and we have developed the tools to deal with adversity.
> 
> For myself, I have had supportive friends and family through various sad and worrisome times, and my way of thanking them is to pay it forward. I also feel the need to be a cheering squad to the folks dealing with issues that could break a person.
> 
> And here we have a safe place to vent as well. I know Champ and Nebraska would risk bad feelings within their families if they vented at home. But they would go nuts if they could not voice their concerns and frustrations. So we can be the extended family who will be there to support them and any others of us who need the virtual arm around the shoulder and hug.


Thank you, Marilyn! You can't know how much it means!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> =======
> She is a wonderful l0 year old who is the light of our lives!
> 
> Yes things are really falling into place. We had the movers come and give us an estimate today and have booked them for Sept. 23. We should be leaving on the 24th. So things are really coming together. We are renting a condo and will do the same there. We have needed to sort out our 'stuff' for a long time and it hasn't been bad at all. We are selling our couch and chair - we have talked about it for some time and decided to do so - we will buy a new set when we get there. We have moved many times over the 59 years we have been married and we are pretty good at it. We make decisions easily and usually are on the same page about the big things. I have done all the arranging on the computer and have also listed all the apartments for rent in the area where we want to live. We are flying out and will stay with our son and family for 3 or 4 days and look for an apartment. We have a couple in the works. We will fly out on the 4th or 5th of September.
> ...


10 is such a great age! Lucky you! I have no granddaughters, only grandsons, but they're so much fun! Being a grandma is the best!

I'm glad you're not overdoing it. But between the move and your social life, you'll be one busy lady! Enjoy!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Good to hear! Were they able to "fix" the problem? Or is it too soon to tell? I think once Paul is home and settled, you and your daughter should have a "girls day". Pamper BOTH of you. I'm sure you already thought about doing this for her, but I am also sure she would enjoy it and relax much more if she knew you were mutually benefitted. You are both troopers and deserve it. I'm certain she would agree. Has your daughter been home or is she sleeping at the hospital? Have you continued to care for your grandsons? How are they doing? It sounds like they are as close to their father as I am to mine, and I just cannot imagine what they are going through. It was hard enough when my dad had complications from just blood being drawn before his hip replacement.
> 
> Please pass on my geniality, support and blessings to your family (including your in laws) I have been thinking much of you. May Karma and Fate continue to shine kindly on you.


My daughter is taking time off when Paul comes home from hospital. She isi a senior lecturer and has other duties apart from the lecture theatre. She rang a while ago and said that they were not happy about her taking time off, so she told them "good, then sack me, but if you do I will complain very long and very loud". They know she will. She stood up for her fellow workers several years ago when they brought in a rule that everyone had to reapply for the jobs every two years, no matter how long they had been in that job. She took them on via the union and won. But Paul is a little brighter this morning. I told her I would not ring the ward and speak to him because the telephone calls can sometimes be a nuisance if you are not well. She just passes my messages on to him.

She said to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and prayers. Prayers mean a lot to her, yes we are different, I am not a praying person but she is.

Boys being boys are playing the game nicely. They are deciding whether grandma, Paul's mum, or nanna, me, is offering the best meal options. At least they both have their music to keep them occupied. They both play several instruments and are both in the school band. There house often resembles a music shop with guitars, ampliciers, keyboards, a trumpet, plus other instruments everywhere.

Thank you everyone for your kind thoughts and wishes.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Champ, if possible have your sweetie have an mri of his back to see what the damage is. D had imaging done and a neurological scan, and the surgeon was given the CD. He was able to show us a 3D of exactly where the problem was, the extent of the problem, and explain how he was going to do the surgery. If surgery is done before it becomes an absolute must, the recovery is easier and of course the surgery is less fraught with danger.


Thanks, marylinknits. He has had MRIs, but he definitely needs to get another bc it's been years. I hope he doesn't have to get surgery. We are looking into less invasive options, but unfortunately they are expensive and no help from health insurance. Why is it we pay for that again? Bc it's not to safely keep things from happening or getting worse. That's for sure.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> This topic seems to be the place where we take turns being the strong shoulders and helping hands to one another. The older we are, the more we have been through in our lives unless we have been extraordinarily fortunate, and we have developed the tools to deal with adversity.
> 
> For myself, I have had supportive friends and family through various sad and worrisome times, and my way of thanking them is to pay it forward. I also feel the need to be a cheering squad to the folks dealing with issues that could break a person.
> 
> And here we have a safe place to vent as well. I know Champ and Nebraska would risk bad feelings within their families if they vented at home. But they would go nuts if they could not voice their concerns and frustrations. So we can be the extended family who will be there to support them and any others of us who need the virtual arm around the shoulder and hug.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

I am very happy for all who are experiencing good progress in their lives.

My heart goes out to those who are facing challenges. 

I have some very good things going on, too, and some frustrations as well. 

Details via PM if you are interested, as I would rather not discuss these things publicly. (Now if the beginning of the web address were https now that might be a different matter. But we all know that anyone can read these posts.)


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, I dropped by WOW -first time in a week. Kicking myself. Back to avoidance, but didn't manage not to post. 

Oh well, I have to admit I am not losing any sleep over it.

We had a much quieter day, and I am feeling well rested. Pat has been great - he is taking it one thing at a time rather than jump in and insist he has to do everything all at once. We are on schedule and the movers are great. We are going to have our load put on a container - we have sold a lot of our older furniture so it isn't that much in comparison to our son.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Well, I dropped by WOW -first time in a week. Kicking myself. Back to avoidance, but didn't manage not to post.
> 
> Oh well, I have to admit I am not losing any sleep over it.
> 
> We had a much quieter day, and I am feeling well rested. Pat has been great - he is taking it one thing at a time rather than jump in and insist he has to do everything all at once. We are on schedule and the movers are great. We are going to have our load put on a container - we have sold a lot of our older furniture so it isn't that much in comparison to our son.


I'm glad things are coming along! Organization pays off!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> 10 is such a great age! Lucky you! I have no granddaughters, only grandsons, but they're so much fun! Being a grandma is the best!
> 
> I'm glad you're not overdoing it. But between the move and your social life, you'll be one busy lady! Enjoy!


I had two boys after no boys inthe family. I just loved raising my boys.They were such fun and such good lads. I miss their childhood. We are enjoying the gd but she is much quieter and very thougthful but has a mind of her own. We have treat discussions about art etc.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Shirley, I'm so glad you are going to be close to your family. I know your gd will love having you near so you can have more art discussions and she can DO more art with you. Now THATS a treat!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys!

So it's Saturday morning, and a very beautiful day! I don't think it will be as hot as it's been, it's cooler now than it was during the week at this time. 

Dh woke up early this morning, let me sleep in while he took care of things around the house and granny's needs. When I went into the house (we slept in the bonus room last night) the sheets dh's cousins used were removed and being laundered, towels were in the dryer, the bathroom was cleaned, all the floors swept, and now dh is vacuuming the rugs after putting the baking soda stuff for carpets on them. 

When I went outside, all my plants had been moved into the sun (I supplement the daylight with high output lights and they stay in their respective tents until I move them into the sun in the morning), everything had been watered and dead/dying foliage cleared away. Oh! And the gate we keep closed to keep granny's psycho dog from attacking my doggie was fixed! It is a very heavy gate and the side not on hinges would drag on the ground. You had to lift it to move it, which was a strain on my wrists and arms. It also made it very difficult to go through it while carrying things. Well, that corner is lifted now and it swings open no problem. Now all we have to do is put a catch or something that we can lower and lift with out foot so we can keep the gate closed without lowering the locking mechanism. Otherwise we have to lock it from whatever side we are on, and if someone needs to come back from the opposite side they have to go through the garage, which is not fun. 

I am so glad dhs back is feeling better, he's been in bad shape lately. I'm going to (try to) make sure he doesn't overdo it. Maybe I can convince him to take me down to the beach, but I have a feeling he will want to go golfing is his back is up for it. I go sometimes and walk the course with him, but I have projects to finish and start, so I think I will do that if he decides to go. I would also like to visit my grandma this weekend. I haven't seen her since Mother's Day. 

Dh's cousin, who ended up being a tremendous help, washed everything that She, her kids, and her mother had used besides the sheets they were sleeping on and towel she needed in the morning She would have done them, too, but I told her not to. She had done the sheets her daughter that was dropped off at college used and all the other towels. Her mother shared a bed with granny, so I would have had to do those anyways, and our washer is big enough for 2 loads of sheets at a time. That's partly why I got it! This is the first time any of dh's family has cleaned up after themselves, taken care of granny, and cooked. I'm thinking of making a new rule that if people are going to stay here, they either have to clean up after themselves or hire someone to. They should have no choice but to take on the responsibilities of granny while they are here. If they don't want to do either, then they can pay to stay at a hotel. I will not allow them to use dh anymore. I joked with him that we both have "chump" written on our foreheads. He said that his family has the expectations and take advantage of him, and that I get caught in the crossfire, bc they don't even think about me having to do things, only him. I told him it's not right either way, and that that's why I'm here. It can be very difficult to stand up to your own family. Dh is the most generous person I know and is often taken advantage of by everyone except his dearest friends. I am very protective of him, but he prefers me not to say anything to his family... Until now. He really appreciated his cousins help, too, and realizes the other members of his family are fully capable of doing the same. So we will see what happens the next time someone decides to visit. 

One thing he knows he needs to talk to granny about regarding my treatment is how she bosses me around, especially when her family is around and could be doing things. And it's the WAY she bosses us around, bc she does the same thing to dh. I can't really describe it, but she has been doing it forever. Dh has tried to talk to her about it before. She says it's how she gets things done. He told her we would do things either way, but that we would do it more gladly if she asked nicely and didn't command us to do it, especially in the way she does. Like this week; "there's chicken that needs to be fixed." "I know granny. I am putting some of it in the freezer. The rest will be split between tonight's and tomorrow's dinner." This was the night dh's cousin cooked. The very next day (I had put the chicken that needed to be preserved in the freezer), again, "there's chicken that needs to be fixed." "Granny, the only chicken in the fridge is marinating (I marinate for at least 24 hours, and it was only 2in the afternoon) and will be made for dinner tonight or tomorrow night (there were still a few days left before it would have needed to be frozen)." I guess the way she "gets things done" is how she used to treat her husband. Dh has told her we are not her husband. So none of this is due to her stroke or age. This is something dh has been dealing with for decades. I know she won't change, and when dh tries to talk to her it goes in one ear and out the other, but it means so much that he tries and that's all that matters. I can deal with it as long as I have his support. 

I feel so much better than I did last week. This is due in large part to YOU GALS!! Thank you so much for your support and encouragement! You have no idea (well maybe you do) how much it meant to me. Marylinknits said it best when she said this was a type of family, I forgot her exact words. I just hope that I have been, and can be there for you the way you have for me. You are all true friends, and I am blessed to have you in my life. I honestly don't know what I have done without you. I probably would have had a break down, which I have only had once this summer. That was right before my trip with my family, which was a couple weeks before I met you. The trip helped, even though I still had to deal with things going on at the house. One thing that greatly helped then was step SIL came 3 or 4 of the days to take granny back to the house she's staying at (mils). Granny adores this woman, so there were absolutely no problems. SSILs husband is also a very sweet and generous man, much like dh. 

I just wish we could go away alone for Labor Day. It would be nice to take off early Saturday morning and go find a campsite. This is hardly doable nowadays, though, bc they have closed a lot of the state and federal campgrounds. I think one year it was 60%. What are our taxes going to? Don't answer that, I already know. I also know teddy Roosevelt would be very ashamed and upset that one of his greatest accomplishments was being treated in this way. Like why did they have to close the federal campgrounds during the government shutdown last year? And then they were fining people $5000 (in ca anyways) for going into a federal park. They're OUR parks, not the governments. If they still had people patrolling them, they could have kept them open. They are our parks, and our responsibility to keep clean. I understand fining someone for not respecting the park, but they never should have shut them down.

Sorry to go on. I know I've said a lot. Have a great weekend! I'll be thinking of all of you.

Best wishes,
NC


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone! We are taking a break and I found some more things of mine you might be interested in. 
I am notsure whether I posted the 'wanderers' (wolves) 
I hope you enjoy them. I have found some discs from quite awhile ago and I have put them in my picture folder. #1 is three faces. I painted them many years ago (watercolor) and a friend wanted a thread painting - this is the result.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Beautiful, Shirley. The three faces are very interesting.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Those are all amazing Shirley! I think my favorite is still "wanderers". You have such a gift. Thank you for sharing it with us!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> My daughter is taking time off when Paul comes home from hospital. She isi a senior lecturer and has other duties apart from the lecture theatre. She rang a while ago and said that they were not happy about her taking time off, so she told them "good, then sack me, but if you do I will complain very long and very loud". They know she will. She stood up for her fellow workers several years ago when they brought in a rule that everyone had to reapply for the jobs every two years, no matter how long they had been in that job. She took them on via the union and won. But Paul is a little brighter this morning. I told her I would not ring the ward and speak to him because the telephone calls can sometimes be a nuisance if you are not well. She just passes my messages on to him.
> 
> She said to thank everyone for their kind thoughts and prayers. Prayers mean a lot to her, yes we are different, I am not a praying person but she is.
> 
> ...


That's cute that the boys are weighing their options. What do they like to eat?

Music is probably the most therapeutic thing, especially being able to create it. It's so good to hear that they have that ability. Your daughter sounds like she is a wonderful wife and mother. But of course she is, she had you to model after!

I am not a praying person either, I use the word to describe my "conversations" and meditations with the three forces I believe in; fate, karma and nature. I think a lot of my beliefs go along with Buddhism. Prayer, in whatever form and whomever it's to, is positive vibes and thoughts being released into the universe and cosmic energies, and may or may not be specifically directed.

How is paul doing today? How long do the doctors think he will have to stay in the hospital?

Hope all is well and that you are enjoying your weekend (if this is the weekend for you. Personally, this is the first "weekend" I've had in a long time).


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Well, I dropped by WOW -first time in a week. Kicking myself. Back to avoidance, but didn't manage not to post.
> 
> Oh well, I have to admit I am not losing any sleep over it.
> 
> We had a much quieter day, and I am feeling well rested. Pat has been great - he is taking it one thing at a time rather than jump in and insist he has to do everything all at once. We are on schedule and the movers are great. We are going to have our load put on a container - we have sold a lot of our older furniture so it isn't that much in comparison to our son.


Glad things are going well with the move. It will be nice to get a fresh start with some new stuff in the new place to compliment your older treasures. And I am really glad Pat is pacing himself.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> That's cute that the boys are weighing their options. What do they like to eat?
> 
> Music is probably the most therapeutic thing, especially being able to create it. It's so good to hear that they have that ability. Your daughter sounds like she is a wonderful wife and mother. But of course she is, she had you to model after!
> 
> ...


Thanks for your concern. It is lovely to have people on this site who express thoughts and concerns for their fellow posters.

Paul is coming along just fine, he should be home about Wednesday. My daughter rang whilst I was in the shower and my son took the call. He hates talking on the phone and sis is the only person he will hold a conversation with on the phone. As my daughter is a nurse Paul will be in good hands, but I think she is more akin to a matron. She does not go overboard on the sympathy angle. She believes in tough love.

What will the boys eat? Whatever they think they can convince Nanna to buy for them. No, seriously, they love their salads. Both can cook a meal for themselves and their parents and my daughter often leaves a note for them to prepare the evening meal as she will be late. Much like my mother did when I was young. If she was out when I came home from school I knew what chores to do, feed chooks, chop wood, bath two younger brothers etc. If she was not on the 4.30 bus then I would start the evening meal and position the two younger brothers to watch out for her on the 5.30 bus, the next bus. They had to tell me she was getting off the bus so I could make a pot of tea for her and they had to run down to the bus stop to carry her bags. The grandsons are the same, they are expected to start the meal if mum is not home after a certain time. They have their chores also, feed the cats, bring the laundry in or peg it on the line. They are also expected to clean their own rooms, vacuum the living areas of the house if needed and iron their own clothes if needed. But they are good lads, Josh is nearly 18 and not in to the party scene or running wild on the streets. They have always been a joy to take out, even when small.

I took them to Pa's Patisserie and let them choose what they wanted, they both chose a a good square Aussie meal, a meat pie, though different types.

I do not know if you can access this site, but it is the site for Paul's photographic studio.

http://www.pauldowe.com.au/


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone! We are taking a break and I found some more things of mine you might be interested in.
> I am notsure whether I posted the 'wanderers' (wolves)
> I hope you enjoy them. I have found some discs from quite awhile ago and I have put them in my picture folder. #1 is three faces. I painted them many years ago (watercolor) and a friend wanted a thread painting - this is the result.


They are beautiful, I just love them. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for your concern. It is lovely to have people on this site who express thoughts and concerns for their fellow posters.
> 
> Paul is coming along just fine, he should be home about Wednesday. My daughter rang whilst I was in the shower and my son took the call. He hates talking on the phone and sis is the only person he will hold a conversation with on the phone. As my daughter is a nurse Paul will be in good hands, but I think she is more akin to a matron. She does not go overboard on the sympathy angle. She believes in tough love.
> 
> ...


The boys sound like such real people. The family has been doing a good job raising them.

Thank you for the link to Paul's site. He does have an artist's eye and his prints are lovely.

I hope his recovery is speedy and complete. Best wishes to the family.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're family raises fine adults. Contratulations. Sometimes parents forget that their job is to raise mature, responsible adults, not Peter Pans.



EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for your concern. It is lovely to have people on this site who express thoughts and concerns for their fellow posters.
> 
> Paul is coming along just fine, he should be home about Wednesday. My daughter rang whilst I was in the shower and my son took the call. He hates talking on the phone and sis is the only person he will hold a conversation with on the phone. As my daughter is a nurse Paul will be in good hands, but I think she is more akin to a matron. She does not go overboard on the sympathy angle. She believes in tough love.
> 
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for your concern. It is lovely to have people on this site who express thoughts and concerns for their fellow posters.
> 
> Paul is coming along just fine, he should be home about Wednesday. My daughter rang whilst I was in the shower and my son took the call. He hates talking on the phone and sis is the only person he will hold a conversation with on the phone. As my daughter is a nurse Paul will be in good hands, but I think she is more akin to a matron. She does not go overboard on the sympathy angle. She believes in tough love.
> 
> ...


That's a beautiful website. I enjoyed the "About Paul" section especially. My father was a photographer a while back and also developed and printed his own photos. He also was an artist in his field of photography. I admire that very much. It looks like Paul is a tremendous success - congratulations. I hope he has many pain-free years enjoying his art.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> That's a beautiful website. I enjoyed the "About Paul" section especially. My father was a photographer a while back and also developed and printed his own photos. He also was an artist in his field of photography. I admire that very much. It looks like Paul is a tremendous success - congratulations. I hope he has many pain-free years enjoying his art.


Paul definitely has tremendous talent--it requires real skill to be able to evaluate all the factors--lighting, contrast, shading, centering--that are part of a successful snap. My sister has that ability--even her most casual photos are marvelous. I, on the other hand, take the world's worst: fingers visible in the frame, key objects off center, heads and/or legs chopped off, distracting shadows, lighting flat and dull.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Paul definitely has tremendous talent--it requires real skill to be able to evaluate all the factors--lighting, contrast, shading, centering--that are part of a successful snap. My sister has that ability--even her most casual photos are marvelous. I, on the other hand, take the world's worst: fingers visible in the frame, key objects off center, heads and/or legs chopped off, distracting shadows, lighting flat and dull.


 :lol: Well, you do have a good sense of humor about it. I'm not very good either - didn't inherit my father's abilities. I do love pretty photographs, though.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> :lol: Well, you do have a good sense of humor about it. I'm not very good either - didn't inherit my father's abilities. I do love pretty photographs, though.


So do I--scenic postcards as well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Just dropping by to show you what's in the window of the Lion Brand Studios - it's entirely knitted. 

Well, this is going to take longer than I expected. I'll be baaaack.

Finally got it. Now I may as well post it in a Pictures thread.


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## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Just dropping by to show you what's in the window of the Lion Brand Studios - it's entirely knitted.
> 
> Well, this is going to take longer than I expected. I'll be baaaack.


Thanks for this, Purl. Glad to see that you did not leave us. This picture is extraordinary. Such talent.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BlueJay21 said:


> Thanks for this, Purl. Glad to see that you did not leave us. This picture is extraordinary. Such talent.


Thank you, BlueJay. The store itself is just great fun - anyone in the vicinity of New York City should drop in. They only carry their own brand of yarn, but it's a very active place, and the staff is amazingly helpful.

But I'm going to unwatch again - just thought I should share this. I have very good reasons for not wanting to hang out here. Bye.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks for your concern. It is lovely to have people on this site who express thoughts and concerns for their fellow posters.
> 
> Paul is coming along just fine, he should be home about Wednesday. My daughter rang whilst I was in the shower and my son took the call. He hates talking on the phone and sis is the only person he will hold a conversation with on the phone. As my daughter is a nurse Paul will be in good hands, but I think she is more akin to a matron. She does not go overboard on the sympathy angle. She believes in tough love.
> 
> ...


I just looked through his photos. The are absolutely wonderful. He is a true artist. I love the whole area around Perth. One of my dreams to visit that part of Australia. Likely won't happen but his pictures show what a lovely place it is. I hope he is feeling better.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

At the moment I am at the end of my tether. Kai has just lost his job. There were complaints that he was rude and aggressive on the two way radio. If any of you know anything about autism you will realise that this aggressive and rude response can be a typical and immediate response to a perceived threat.

He has taken off in his car in a highly emotional state and I am extremely worried. I hope and hope and hope he does not do anything stupid and is pulled over the the cops. I know what his response will be. He will overreact and will probably lose his licence, probably be arrested.

I phoned his work and asked, no begged for them not to pursue the matter and escalate the situation, I told them to walk away. I do not know if they will. He has gone there to return his equipment. He went whilst I was on the phone to them so I could not hop in the car and go with him. I am extremely stressed and worried.

He does not put on his resume that he suffers from a degree of autism. Unfortunately I believe he is heading for an autistic meltdown. I just do not know what to do or where to turn.

I rang his contact person at his job service provider and explained the situation. She said she would contact Contraflow and try to explain the situation.

He has been working there since January, now another job lost because of an autistic outburst.

It seems that he was aggressive and rude to a female on the walkie talkie. I know I will be shot down here but I honestly think that some females who are working in what was previously an all male work situation are very quick to take offence at rude or crude remarks. I am not condoning rude and crude remarks but men do make these remarks, especially to other men at work. I think that some women who work in what was an all male work situation expect the niceties that exist an a genteel office situation should also apply in the rough and tumble male labouring work situation.

I am sorry if I am ranting, but I am at the end of my tether, I honestly do not know which way to turn. I am frightened of what may happen if the situation with Kai at the moment escalates, and it will not take much to escalate it. If he is pulled over by the cops because he is a few km over the speed limit he will blow his top. At the moment if the cops think you are driving aggressively they can seize your car for 28 days and charge you with being a hoon. They do not need to prove that you were a hoon, just taking off very quickly, squealing your tyres, stopping and breaking a bit too quickly, anything, anything, they will overreact. I just hope the female at the work depot does not overreact and call the cops. I spoke to the person at the head office but he was not really interested, nor did he understand. He admitted he does not know anything about autism and the problems with a meltdown. He just kept repeating "Kai was aggressive and rude over the intercom and we will not tolerate that". I do not know what I am going to do. Talking about it here is the only outlet I have at the moment. My daughter is working and I cannot talk to her. Yes, I am extremely upset, I feel that I am going mental with worry.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Dear Ms. Eve,

I am very sorry to read your post. I do not know the details about Kai but I am assuming he is your grandson. How old is he?

I have a close friend with the same exact child. He is now 30 and cannot keep a job because of his rudeness. He is applying for all kinds of social benefits for the mentally ill. Does Kai have a social worker or a therapist? I don't know how the mental health works in Oz but there is not much offered to adults with autism in the states. But If you can research a program for him, it might be a good way to channel your nervous energy and give you a sense of helping. I am so sorry this is happening to you. My last 10 years in the workplace was with kids with autism and I know it is a real worry. Keep us posted here.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Dear Ms. Eve,
> 
> I am very sorry to read your post. I do not know the details about Kai but I am assuming he is your grandson. How old is he?
> 
> I have a close friend with the same exact child. He is now 30 and cannot keep a job because of his rudeness. He is applying for all kinds of social benefits for the mentally ill. Does Kai have a social worker or a therapist? I don't know how the mental health works in Oz but there is not much offered to adults with autism in the states. But If you can research a program for him, it might be a good way to channel your nervous energy and give you a sense of helping. I am so sorry this is happening to you. My last 10 years in the workplace was with kids with autism and I know it is a real worry. Keep us posted here.


No, he is my youngest son, not my grandson. He is 40 years old.

He has just returned home, thankfully no autistic meltdown, perhaps they did listen to what I said at the work depot.

He said he has not received numerous warnings about his rude and crude comments on the 2 way walkie talkie, in fact he has not received a single warning. He asked who I spoke to at the head office. I told him it was a Warren Ralph and he said that Warren Ralph is not liked at all with the workers. In fact he said that no one liked him, they say he is a pompous ass. He said he has had trouble with one female, who is a very aggressive female, but he added that everyone has trouble with this female. She tries to outmale the men, if that makes sense.

At least he is not in autistic meltdown mode. I have contacted the Salvation Army job service provider and spoken to his contact person there. I hope she will contact Contraflow. But it seems that I will have to add the fact that he suffers from mild autism to his resume. You know what that means, he will never get a job now, but it seems that all medical impairments should be mentioned on his resume. Unfortunately most people do not understand autism and think that a person with autism sits locked in their own private world 24/7. They think that autism is rocking back and forth and banging their heads on the floor or wall all the time. That may be the case with severe autism but Kai does not have severe autism.

I am still devastated but relieved he did not go into autistic meltdown. So, back to looking for jobs for him.

Not much done for autistic adults here in Australia. He is one of those who 'fall through the cracks'. We found that out when he was very young and had been diagnosed with brain damage and temporal lobe epilepsy but had not been diagnosed with autism. So many people with mild brain injury fall through the cracks. People with high profile disabilities do receive treatment because their disabilities are obvious. People with mild disabilities do not receive very much help at all. We have been there and back again over the years. Some help is just not help at all. Some of the people he has seen over the years only wanted to put him on a regime of drugs, librium for example. That is not the answer. He spent his childhood wandering around in a fog as he was on phenobarb and valium every four hours when he was a baby and a toddler, then on tegretol from when he was 5 years old. Drugs,especially mind numbing drugs that zonk him out are definitely ot the answer.

At least he did not go into autistic meltdown. I was worried, I did not want him to have a run in with the cops. At least our cops do not shoot with guns, they use their tasers and often overuse them. We have the case of the cops tasering one man 17 times. He was on the floor, writhing in pain and the whole episode was captured on cctv. The cops were saying 'do you want some more' and then tasering him again. My eldest son, a former policeman who ended up working for the Crime and Corruption Commission had the police officers investigated and they were dismissed from the force. It was Roger's job to investigate complaints against the police force and his investigations resulted in several coppers losing his job. But that is aside, at least Kai did not go into meltdown, nor was he stopped by the cops. Thank goodness for small mercier. Now, I just have to find him another job. No he does not need to work in a sheltered workshop.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Eve, I'm so sorry. I feel your pain--my sister's 24-year old stepson has Asperger's and throws himself on the ground kicking and screaming when he loses at a video game.

I'm not sure exactly what to advise...fingers crossed that he makes it home safe and sound. Short-term I'd sure try to find a method to keep him off the road when he's upset: commandeer the car keys or, if that fails, go out and remove some vital plug or wire from the engine. Long-term, maybe a counselor or therapist, as SQM suggested?

Good luck, and please keep us posted!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Eve, I'm so sorry. I feel your pain--my sister's 24-year old stepson has Asperger's and throws himself on the ground kicking and screaming when he loses at a video game.
> 
> I'm not sure exactly what to advise...fingers crossed that he makes it home safe and sound. Short-term I'd sure try to find a method to keep him off the road when he's upset: commandeer the car keys or, if that fails, go out and remove some vital plug or wire from the engine. Long-term, maybe a counselor or therapist, as SQM suggested?
> 
> Good luck, and please keep us posted!


Kai does the same thing when he loses a video game, but the funny thing, these video games seem to keep him on a level keel. I think that they release the violence that rages within the autistic person, it is a safe outlet for them to rage against losing the video game than to rage against another person. But they do react before they think. That dampening down process that adults have is just not present with the autistic person. They overreact. He said he has not been warned several times about being rude and crude on the walkie talkie. He said that the person I spoke to is not like by the workers. I have spoken to his contact person at the Salvation Army, his job service provider, and I am hoping that the matter can be investigated. I am waiting for a call back from Warren Ralph, the person at Contraflow who sacked him, to ask him for more details as to who made the complaint against him and whether he investigated it to see if it was genuine. But I believe Kai when he said that he has not received warnings about his manner on the walkie talkie, or been warned that he is acting in an aggressive manner. Somewhere, somehow, the truth is not being told here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> No, he is my youngest son, not my grandson. He is 40 years old.
> 
> He has just returned home, thankfully no autistic meltdown, perhaps they did listen to what I said at the work depot.
> 
> ...


Eve - what about anger management programs? Kai sounds like a twin to my friend's son. I think anger plays a big part in these cases when a person with autism mouths off.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> At the moment I am at the end of my tether. Kai has just lost his job. There were complaints that he was rude and aggressive on the two way radio. If any of you know anything about autism you will realise that this aggressive and rude response can be a typical and immediate response to a perceived threat.
> 
> He has taken off in his car in a highly emotional state and I am extremely worried. I hope and hope and hope he does not do anything stupid and is pulled over the the cops. I know what his response will be. He will overreact and will probably lose his licence, probably be arrested.
> 
> ...


Eve, I'm so sorry that he lost his job and sorry about your distress over it. I hope that by now he is home safely. I have a nephew with Aspberger's syndrome, and it is very hard for him to get and keep a job. So hard on the family who want so much for them to have some independence and who also have to live in difficult circumstances. I hope and pray that this will go better than you expect.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> No, he is my youngest son, not my grandson. He is 40 years old.
> 
> He has just returned home, thankfully no autistic meltdown, perhaps they did listen to what I said at the work depot.
> 
> ...


I'm so glad to hear that the worst was avoided. I hope they'll reconsider or he'll find something else - maybe with more understanding people. It's sometimes harder when it is less obvious because expectations are different. I hope you can rest easy tonight.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

EveMCooke said:


> No, he is my youngest son, not my grandson. He is 40 years old.
> 
> He has just returned home, thankfully no autistic meltdown, perhaps they did listen to what I said at the work depot.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry to hear about Kai's "minor" episode. I'm sure the fact that he wasn't warned made things worse, as people with autism often react worse when they do not understand why something has happened. If they can see the logic in something, it can be ok with them. Of course, autism is a spectrum disorder and there are more generalizations than there are rules.

I'm so glad to hear that he made it back ok. He probably just needed the drive. It's a testimony to him that he could calm down enough to come home without incident. I'm sure you are doing everything in your power to keep him calm.

I agree with a statement you made about some women in some workplaces. I think a lot of them take offense to things when it should just be water off the back, you know? It's like they just want to make waves, which is not cool.

It is so sad that there aren't programs for adults with autism, either here or in you corner of the globe. It seems we gave made leaps and bounds where children are concerned, but forget that these children become adults. It's sad that our solution is to give them pills that either don't work or kill their souls, and no other options. Our health care would rather pay pharmas for these, than therapists and facilities who can actually help. at least it seems that's how it is here. If someone here has insurance for psycho/occupational therapy, it is only a very limited number of sessions. If your lucky, you have time to get to know your therapist before you can't see him/her anymore. It's the same for physical therapy, which is also oftentimes more beneficial than pills, or pills alone.

As for the police, it is quite sad to know things aren't any better over there. Here, a mentally ill man was beaten to death (kicked in the head and body repeatedly) by 3 or 4 officers, while crying for his daddy. This, too, was caught on film and the officers were acquitted.

I'm glad that Kai has you for a mother. You are so supportive of him. You may think, "of course, how could I not be?" But believe it or not, there are parents who give up on their autistic offspring. They feel they can do no more and are too much to handle, especially when they become adults. I'm not saying it happens all the time, but it does happen.

I will continue to think of you in these trying times. It's like you read my mind in posting, bc I was just wondering how your son was doing. I remember you mentioning you had an autistic son. Keep us posted on him and your daughters family. I hope we are helping, at least a little.

HUGS AND KISSES


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I am so sorry to hear about Kai's "minor" episode. I'm sure the fact that he wasn't warned made things worse, as people with autism often react worse when they do not understand why something has happened. If they can see the logic in something, it can be ok with them. Of course, autism is a spectrum disorder and there are more generalizations than there are rules.
> 
> I'm so glad to hear that he made it back ok. He probably just needed the drive. It's a testimony to him that he could calm down enough to come home without incident. I'm sure you are doing everything in your power to keep him calm.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. It seems as if Kai did blow a safety valve before he left the house to return his walkie talkie and clothes to Contraflow. I heard a bang, that is why I went out to the kitchen from the study. I thought it was one of the cats knocking something over. It seems it was Kai. When they rang him and sacked him he threw his mobile phone across the room and it hit the fridge, leaving a dent in the door. Typical reaction from Kai, throw whatever is handy. But I think that throw and the shock of seeing the dent in the front of the fridge snapped him out of a meltdown. I am not worried about a dent in the door of the fridge. I told him I am not worried, he was worried I might be. I told him that action possibly relieved some tension.

I have been making phone calls right, left and centre. Pretending I knew more than I actually did. I managed to talk to the guy who sacked him. Boy oh boy, did he change his story. I pretended I had more information than I did have, so it went from

Your son had numerous complaints made against him and he received numerous warnings

to

He was aggressive on the walkie talkie on two occasions.

This was after I demanded to know dates, times and the names of the people who lodged the complaints

to

we had two complaints from the two people who worked with him on Saturday.

Interesting as he was only working with one other guy on Saturday, so this is also not a the truth. But I am not going to get the truth from him. I am not going to pursue the matter any further with him.

It turns out that Contraflow are not getting the new contracts BUT they are still hiring more new staff. They seem to be sacking staff when they have been there six months and due for an increase in salary. Kai has been there since January 19th, seven months and was due for a salary increase. It seems that they do this all the time, sack the older workers and employ new staff at a lower salary. They are possibly also picking up the monetary inducements they receive from the Federal Government for employing people who are long term unemployed. This is usually in the form of wage supplements for six months. Kai had already said most of his fellow workers had been long term unemployed.

There was one woman there who tried to be more male than the males. There is a term they use for this type of woman but I am definitely not going to repeat it here. She got up everyone's nose. Unfortunately she is a relative, a daughter I believe, of a long term employee who is a very close friend of the owners. It seems she has had quite a few men sacked. She is the female who posted some very nasty comments about the firm on her facebook page. She was given a reprimand. The other workers could not understand her lenient treatment, normally such action would result in her getting the sack. Kai said this woman is impossible to deal with.

So, it went from 'numerous complaints and numerous warnings' to 'a complaint from two workers who worked with Kai on Saturday'. Pretty sus, when Kai only worked with one other employee on Saturday.'

He said that he was asked to clean the depot yard last week and someone said he was slow. He told them that the job was placing pressure on his hip and causing pain, that was why he was slow. Yes, he did tell them when he got the job that he had an injury to his pelvis, with 4 larges screws holding it together.

I spoke to to his case manager with the Salvation Army job service provider. She is not in favour of adding paragraphs to his resume that he suffers from Aspergers, even though not severely. She is also not in favour of disclosing his hip injury on his resume. She said this information is on a need to know basis and legally it does not have to be disclosed in his resume. She said their is no need to disclose it unless he is specifically asked if he has any medical problems. She will submit his name to other traffic management companies.

Me, I am really feeling ill at the moment. I am just shaking all over, have a giant headache and feel quite ill. I think a cuppa coffee will only make me feel worse.

At least the court case with his father's will is nearing an end, so he will have some money in the bank and money for a new car if needed. We just have to decide whether to go with Solicitors Mortgage Funds, with interest of 4.6% or NAB, his bank, term deposit with interest of between 4.1% and 4.2% depending on when the interest is paid. We just need to discuss with someone which is the safer option. But that chapter is coming to a close, after 14 months.

You are a true friend.

I am looking forward, not backwards. I am trying to think positively.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Well you hang in there, Eve! Let me know if you need to talk. You are a trooper, but take care of yourself. I wouldn't be suprised if how you are feeling is due to all the stress you've been under. 

Coffee is probably the worst thing for you. Try some nice herbal (chamomile is very relaxing) tea. There is absolutely no caffeine. If you need the caffeine, go for a cut up green tea. If that's not enough, mate tea has almost as much caffeine as a cup of coffee, without the jitters. Black team is between green and mate in caffeine, closer to mate. 

For your headaches I would also recommend a hot compress over your forehead or eyes. Also, a hot bath for the rest of your body. Never underestimate the healing power of water. 

You focus on yourself, too. If you run yourself ragged, you will be of no use to anyone. I wish I could be there to help, or be of any help whatsoever. You are a strong woman and I admire you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm so glad to hear that the worst was avoided. I hope they'll reconsider or he'll find something else - maybe with more understanding people. It's sometimes harder when it is less obvious because expectations are different. I hope you can rest easy tonight.


I believe you hit the nail on the head, Bonnie. I think it _is_ difficult for many to understand that folks with Asperger's (autism-lite, so to speak) are disabled every bit as much as the child rocking in the corner. They present such an unremarkable appearance and their behavior is so age-appropriate much of the time that it's easy to be fooled.

Someone (SQM?) suggested that Evie consider anger-management classes for her son, but frankly I have my doubts about the effectiveness of these programs for those suffering from autism. Certainly anger and frustration factor in to all the inappropriate behavior, but I believe autistics lack the basic understanding of cause and effect ie hit a policeman and go to jail, that's the foundation of such therapy. I truly believe these folks can't make that vital connection. Maybe they can only live in the moment?

I never have understood it. Years ago Sister's stepson was warned that he'd be expelled from school if he displayed any more belligerent or aggressive behavior--the next day he hit the principal. He truly didn't seem to grasp the fact that his behavior (good or bad) had any effect at all on his future. Very frustrating .


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> .
> 
> I spoke to to his case manager with the Salvation Army job service provider. She is not in favour of adding paragraphs to his resume that he suffers from Aspergers, even though not severely. She is also not in favour of disclosing his hip injury on his resume. She said this information is on a need to know basis and legally it does not have to be disclosed in his resume. She said their is no need to disclose it unless he is specifically asked if he has any medical problems. She will submit his name to other traffic management companies.
> 
> ...


Eve - my thoughts are with you. I know what you are going through as my sister's son suffers from the same thing and has had the same problems. It sounds as if you are having a really bad time right now. Our children are our children forever and it is so hard when they become adults and people don't care, or understand. I hope you can take it a bit easy and gather your courage- Life is so difficult sometimes. We had a son who had addiction problems and it was a constant worry for the family. He struggled his whole life to beat the addictions. We lost him to esophagael cancer in 2009.

I hope you son find a job with people who care. You try to get rest and try not to worry - there is only so much you can do. It is hard when we are older ourselves and have to deal with a troubled family member. I am glad you can 'vent' here. This has turned into such a great site. A 'soft place to land' when life becomes too much sometimes. How is your sil? I went and looked at his photos again. They are outstanding.

My dil is taking us out for lunch. She is visiting her Mother who is still here with her sister. They are enjoying the Island and it will be nice to have a visit and find out how they are feeling about their big move. We are flying out on the 3rd, 4th and 5th to confirm an apartment and will be staying with them.

I am another year older today -- not that enthused. Birthdays mean less and less the older you get. This year it is pretty exciting and I forgot about it until dh came in this morning with my coffee.

You have all become such good friends. Take care and have a nice day everyone. Once again, Thoughts are with you Eve.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thank you for your reply. It seems as if Kai did blow a safety valve before he left the house to return his walkie talkie and clothes to Contraflow. I heard a bang, that is why I went out to the kitchen from the study. I thought it was one of the cats knocking something over. It seems it was Kai. When they rang him and sacked him he threw his mobile phone across the room and it hit the fridge, leaving a dent in the door. Typical reaction from Kai, throw whatever is handy. But I think that throw and the shock of seeing the dent in the front of the fridge snapped him out of a meltdown. I am not worried about a dent in the door of the fridge. I told him I am not worried, he was worried I might be. I told him that action possibly relieved some tension.
> 
> I have been making phone calls right, left and centre. Pretending I knew more than I actually did. I managed to talk to the guy who sacked him. Boy oh boy, did he change his story.


This is tragic, and I'm so sorry. It might be best, however, to let it go and help your son find new a new job. Kai has gotten a raw deal from his employers, but its obvious that they operate in an underhanded and sneaky manner and have no understanding whatsoever about his disability. The inability to understand other people's emotions is a key factor in autism--no need for him to add bosses who are naturally sly and deceptive to the mix. The backstabbing boss or co-worker is a nightmare for anyone to deal with--I don't imagine a person with autism would be able to make sense of any of it or to stay out of hot water.

Again, good luck!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Happy B'day Shirley and many more in good health.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dear Eve, I'm so sorry you're having to go through so much. There is nothing in the world, more difficult than seeing our children struggle and suffer. Especially when its something that just can't be fixed. I have a son with Cerebral Palsy and there have been many times that I've gone through situations similar to yours. You and I both know that there isn't anything we can do to fix things for our children. All we can do is to be there for them, encourage them to try again and never give up. There are good times and bad times. There's nothing we can do to change that. Its so emotionally draining for a mother who suffers every time her son suffers. We pour everything we have into them, and wonder how we're to be filled again, so that we can do it all over. But all we need do, is look at them and the love rushes in to fill us back up. Eve, Kai will get jobs and lose jobs. That's just the way it is for him. Things will work out, maybe not as you've planned or as you hoped, but they will work out. You're doing everything you possibly can but the most important thing is that you love him. He will survive and you will too. Grasp at every opportunity to fill yourself so that you'll have the strength to help him. My thoughts and prayers are with you! Much love from another mother!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Happy Day, Shirley! Do something fun and enjoy!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Happy belated birthday, Shirley (sorry, I didn't know). I agree with Nebraska--make it a fun couple of days for yourself.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Dear Eve, I'm so sorry you're having to go through so much. There is nothing in the world, more difficult than seeing our children struggle and suffer. Especially when its something that just can't be fixed. I have a son with Cerebral Palsy and there have been many times that I've gone through situations similar to yours. You and I both know that there isn't anything we can do to fix things for our children. All we can do is to be there for them, encourage them to try again and never give up. There are good times and bad times. There's nothing we can do to change that. Its so emotionally draining for a mother who suffers every time her son suffers. We pour everything we have into them, and wonder how we're to be filled again, so that we can do it all over. But all we need do, is look at them and the love rushes in to fill us back up. Eve, Kai will get jobs and lose jobs. That's just the way it is for him. Things will work out, maybe not as you've planned or as you hoped, but they will work out. You're doing everything you possibly can but the most important thing is that you love him. He will survive and you will too. Grasp at every opportunity to fill yourself so that you'll have the strength to help him. My thoughts and prayers are with you! Much love from another mother!


Wise words indeed, Nebraska. Thanks!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Dear Eve, I'm so sorry you're having to go through so much. There is nothing in the world, more difficult than seeing our children struggle and suffer. Especially when its something that just can't be fixed. I have a son with Cerebral Palsy and there have been many times that I've gone through situations similar to yours. You and I both know that there isn't anything we can do to fix things for our children. All we can do is to be there for them, encourage them to try again and never give up. There are good times and bad times. There's nothing we can do to change that. Its so emotionally draining for a mother who suffers every time her son suffers. We pour everything we have into them, and wonder how we're to be filled again, so that we can do it all over. But all we need do, is look at them and the love rushes in to fill us back up. Eve, Kai will get jobs and lose jobs. That's just the way it is for him. Things will work out, maybe not as you've planned or as you hoped, but they will work out. You're doing everything you possibly can but the most important thing is that you love him. He will survive and you will too. Grasp at every opportunity to fill yourself so that you'll have the strength to help him. My thoughts and prayers are with you! Much love from another mother!


KFN, I want to give both you and Eve a huge hug right now...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> I believe you hit the nail on the head, Bonnie. I think it _is_ difficult for many to understand that folks with Asperger's (autism-lite, so to speak) are disabled every bit as much as the child rocking in the corner. They present such an unremarkable appearance and their behavior is so age-appropriate much of the time that it's easy to be fooled.
> 
> Someone (SQM?) suggested that Evie consider anger-management classes for her son, but frankly I have my doubts about the effectiveness of these programs for those suffering from autism. Certainly anger and frustration factor in to all the inappropriate behavior, but I believe autistics lack the basic understanding of cause and effect ie hit a policeman and go to jail, that's the foundation of such therapy. I truly believe these folks can't make that vital connection. Maybe they can only live in the moment?
> 
> I never have understood it. Years ago Sister's stepson was warned that he'd be expelled from school if he displayed any more belligerent or aggressive behavior--the next day he hit the principal. He truly didn't seem to grasp the fact that his behavior (good or bad) had any effect at all on his future. Very frustrating .


There is so much more known about autism (which sometime in the last 8 years Aspergers was officially added to the spectrum) than even when I was a kid. Believe it or not, occupational therapy (which includes anger management and behavioral therapy) can be very effective with people who suffer from autism. This is more common with those in the higher functioning "side" of the umbrella (in psychology, they (used to) call the spectrum an "umbrella"). It definitely worked for my cousin. He does not have such violent outbursts any longer and is able to cope with many things that don't go his way.

Unfortunately, many children's lives were destroyed bc teachers were not equipped or knowledgeable about the disorder. There are even fewer employers who can handle them, partly bc we forget that children with autism become ADULTS with autism. I don't know, does society think people just "grow out of it"? That's what's also frustrating to me. There are also many more kids who have autism today than ever before. Psychologists and doctors think it could be due to the fact that we knew so little about it before, that many kids were misdiagnosed with other behavioral disorders, like oppositional defiance disorder (ODD) and conduct disorder (CD).


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> There is so much more known about autism (which sometime in the last 8 years Aspergers was officially added to the spectrum) than even when I was a kid. Believe it or not, occupational therapy (which includes anger management and behavioral therapy) can be very effective with people who suffer from autism. This is more common with those in the higher functioning "side" of the umbrella (in psychology, they (used to) call the spectrum an "umbrella"). It definitely worked for my cousin. He does not have such violent outbursts any longer and is able to cope with many things that don't go his way.
> 
> Unfortunately, many children's lives were destroyed bc teachers were not equipped or knowledgeable about the disorder. There are even fewer employers who can handle them, partly bc we forget that children with autism become ADULTS with autism. I don't know, does society think people just "grow out of it"? That's what's also frustrating to me. There are also many more kids who have autism today than ever before. Psychologists and doctors think it could be due to the fact that we knew so little about it before, that many kids were misdiagnosed with other behavioral disorders, like oppositional defiance disorder (ODD) and conduct disorder (CD).


Society had better get used to dealing with the many forms of Autism. One in 68 infants are now diagnosed with Autism. IMO, society should demand answers. We need to know what is causing this and how to stop it. Treatments need to expand and grow, but prevention is critical.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> KFN, I want to give both you and Eve a huge hug right now...


Thanks, NC. But all of the hugs go to Eve, right now!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Thank you for your reply. It seems as if Kai did blow a safety valve before he left the house to return his walkie talkie and clothes to Contraflow. I heard a bang, that is why I went out to the kitchen from the study. I thought it was one of the cats knocking something over. It seems it was Kai. When they rang him and sacked him he threw his mobile phone across the room and it hit the fridge, leaving a dent in the door. Typical reaction from Kai, throw whatever is handy. But I think that throw and the shock of seeing the dent in the front of the fridge snapped him out of a meltdown. I am not worried about a dent in the door of the fridge. I told him I am not worried, he was worried I might be. I told him that action possibly relieved some tension.
> 
> I have been making phone calls right, left and centre. Pretending I knew more than I actually did. I managed to talk to the guy who sacked him. Boy oh boy, did he change his story. I pretended I had more information than I did have, so it went from
> 
> ...


I guess you just have to hang tough.

We know numerous people with Aspergers spectrum disorders, from high functioning to truly disabled to the point they can't function independently.

It is a sadly misunderstood ailment, but here in the US there are a couple of non profit organizations working to raise understanding and to lobby for research as to the cause, prevention, treatment, and education for both the Aspergers person and the general public.

Best wishes for you and Kai that he finds a niche where people have the good sense and kindness of heart to work with him and give him the support he needs. He is blessed to have a treasure like you as a mother.

One of our friends has a daughter who is now 15 and mainstreaming quite well in High School. When we met the family the girl was 3, non verbal except to have screaming tantrums, and uncontrollable. This family is quite wealthy, and they were able to find experimental behavior control programs. She was started with this patterning young enough that it seems to have helped "rewire" her responses to stimuli enough that she will have minimal problems. But the mom said the children need to have intervention as young as possible for the best chance of success. And the mom has moved forward and is earning a PhD degree in psychology to study autism spectrum disorders.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Eve - my thoughts are with you. I know what you are going through as my sister's son suffers from the same thing and has had the same problems. It sounds as if you are having a really bad time right now. Our children are our children forever and it is so hard when they become adults and people don't care, or understand. I hope you can take it a bit easy and gather your courage- Life is so difficult sometimes. We had a son who had addiction problems and it was a constant worry for the family. He struggled his whole life to beat the addictions. We lost him to esophagael cancer in 2009.
> 
> I hope you son find a job with people who care. You try to get rest and try not to worry - there is only so much you can do. It is hard when we are older ourselves and have to deal with a troubled family member. I am glad you can 'vent' here. This has turned into such a great site. A 'soft place to land' when life becomes too much sometimes. How is your sil? I went and looked at his photos again. They are outstanding.
> 
> ...


Let us buck up regarding birthdays. A happy one to you, Shirley.

I got an e-mail the other day from my university where DH and I both graduated in 1957 with an article that one of my professors is celebrating 100 this month. Apparently she is still firing on all cylinders, since they gave a PO box number for any of us who wanted to send her a note. They also had a nice picture of her. She was an excellent teacher, and I am glad for her that she has reached this milestone in good condition.

There is hope for us all. We have control over some of it, eating properly, getting exercise, staying hydrated, not smoking and staying away from smokers.

Some of us luck out genetically and I think some of us luck out with where we live. I believe that if D and I had stayed in one or the other of two places we lived when we were younger we would be gone by now. One place was downwind from a refinery and the other close to a nuclear power plant. Of course if our miserable governor has his way, there will be disposal of fracking waste in the next county, so there goes potable ground water. And there goes people's health.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Thank you every one for your kind thoughts regarding my son. I feel a little calmer today and Kai is still asleep. It is 7.55 am.

He said he has never sworn over the two way radio and has not sworn at a female employee. But this would only be his word against hers, and as she is the daughter of a long term employee who is the personal friend of the owner, well what more can I say, who is going to be believed. 

I know Kai has a problem with his memory, is is due to the parts of the brain that were damaged at birth. Right Temporal Lobe and Right Parietal Lobe. Every morning I would see him off to work - 
have you got your walkie talkie - check
your mobile phone - check
wallet - check
sunnies - check
water - check 
and so forth
but I believe him when he says he did not swear over the walkie talkie. He does not like talking on the phone so I think this would be the same with the walkie talkie. I have not heard him swear on the phone.

Things are difficult, due to his early life. Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s there was little if any understanding of the condition and little if any help. His father was one of the most least understanding and considerate people you could meet. He became a Buddhist monk but was asked to leave the monastery after two years because of his actions. He wanted to dominate, he even told the Abbot that he was more knowledgeable about Buddhism than the Abbot. He was still parading around in his monk's robes pretending to be a monk some 17 years later when he died. Yes, he fooled some people who did not know a lot about Buddhism, but the Buddhists in Tasmania moved away from him and in the end they did not have any contact with him, despite what Kai's cousin tried to make out.

We knew when Kai was only 4 weeks of age that he had problems, he was in the children's hospital because be was fitting badly. He then began his regime of anti epilepsy drugs. We also knew what areas of his life he would have difficulty with. Despite my husband telling everyone that we would get help, send him to a good school, etc, he moved to a very small town in the country when Kai was 2 years old and then moved to an even smaller town 12 months later. The only school was the local state school. Kai had a very unhappy school life, bullied and misunderstood. His father was the least understanding person. He would say "what that boy needs is a b** good belting. My mother is right, he needs a sound thrashing every day until he learns to speak, stop wetting the bed, etc". I kept the two apart as best I could and would not let him hit Kai. Belting children is just no on, it is totally unnecessary. A smack on the bum or legs may be one thing but a thrashing or good belting is just not on.

He did receive some excellent help in Tasmania. He had a weekly session at Claire House, but unfortunately they could only treat him until he was 12 years old. It was how they were set up. When we came back to WA I did manage to get him into the Selby Street clinic with weekly visits, but unfortunately they could not treat him after he turned 18. The person he saw there was excellent, he took him off his Tegretol, he said he did not need it as it was not helping him. After that he did see a doctor who was working at the medical centre we were attending. I did not like this man, I found him to be very domineering. His father was living at the monastery in WA at the time and when I told him Kai was seeing this man he said "No, do not let him see that man. He is a senior member of the lay community who run the affairs of the monastery and even the monks are afraid of him. Take him to someone else." I must admit that the man did try to impress me, telling me that he knew Kai's father and that he was a senior member of the Buddhist lay society. So we tried Relations Australia. It cost $25 a visit back then in 1994 so I do not know what it would cost today. It was not much help, mainly because they only saw Kai when he was in a good phase, they did not see him in a down phase. They also only talked to Kai, they did not speak to me although they said they would talk to me. They did not get the full picture because kai could not remember some things and did not tell them some things that were important. Kai's teenage years and early 20s were really bad. Hormones kicking in. Most teenagers who have difficulty in life experience difficulties in these years. Since then he has had spasmodic help which really has not helped.

At least today we know more about Aspergers and Autism than was known when Kai was a baby and a child. Early intervention is the key to help. It just was not there when Kai was a baby. He did not speak until he was four but he was never referred to a speech therapist. Unfortunately there were none where we lived in Mt Barker and his father flatly refused to move back to Perth.

But all that is in the past. The present. I looked into the unfair dismissal side of the argument. Unfortunately this can be costly and as I said it will be Kai's word against someone who is connected with the owner of the firm. It also costs $67 just to lodge the forms to start the procedure. Kai was dismissed over the phone, no written notice, no week's notice, nothing - just sacked with a phone call. Unfortunately, Kai was employed as 'casual' even though he worked there for 7 months and often worked over 50 hours a week. He did not have regular hours and would often get a phone call to report for work then. He did not know from one day to the next if he would be working tomorrow or not. Casual employees can be sacked at the drop of a hat. I would not trust the man I spoke to on the phone. He was extremely blunt and changed his story several times. I had to ring him several times to speak to him. I would leave a message asking him to call me but he never rang me.

Someone wrote that with Aspergers and Autism there is only the 'now', and that is so correct. There is only the 'here and now', there is no yesterday to tomorrow. They cannot see how their actions can affect the future and what happened yesterday is gone.

So, it is back to the dole and lodging dole forms each fortnight. This means sending out those application for employment letters. Ten a fortnight at the moment but if the Federal Government get their budget through the Senate it will be 20 applications a fortnight. One application in the morning and one application in the afternoon, is how one politician described it. It does not sound like much, but honestly, are there the jobs there that he can apply for - NO, and a big NO at that. What it means is that businesses will be swamped with job applications from people who know they have no prospect of getting that job but still have to submit the required number of applications. The burden on employers is going to increase, they will have to read these job applications and then discard them because the prospective employee is not qualified for the job. Then there is the problem of references. Why did you leave your last job and do you have a reference from them? He can hardly say he was sacked because the boss said he swore over the walkie talkie. I will not go into the fun of dealing with Social Security, sorry they are calling themselves Centrelink now. They used to have a staff of 97 in the Midland office, it is now down to 19 employees who are expected to do the same work, actually it is a heavier workload because more people are unemployed and looking for work. Same building, same number of desks, same number of computer terminals, just a greatly reduced staff rattling around in their big, empty building. They are stressed and short tempered as a result. He will have an appointment with one of them every six weeks. A wait of over three hours to see someone, even though they send him a letter with an appointment booked for a specific time. I think everyone is booked for the same time slots.

Kai has to take his time sheet to the depot today. I will go with him. I will not ask the people at the depot any questions, that could be misinterpreted.

But as any mother with a child with disabilities knows, we become tigers, fighting for our children. Attack our child and we come out with fangs outstretched. But sometimes we know we cannot do anything so we step back.

What causes autism? There are so many theories. Some say it could be a genetic trait. I know Kai's father had a funny uncle. I did not meet him, he died a few days after I met Barry but I did accompany him down to Albany to bury him. From the stories the neighbours told and what we found in the house, he was really weird. Barry himself would fly into uncontrolled rages for no reason. He worked for most of his life with the Reserve Bank but was not popular with other staff members. Some avoided him.

At least people are now beginning to understand Autism and early intervention is producing good results. But they are still no closer to finding out the causes. I think we now have so many pollutants in our lives, pollutants from so many different causes. Kai's father was a great user of insecticides, DDT, dieldrin, he even used 245T to spray the blackberries. He bought a huge supply when they were phasing these chemicals out and would spray the weeds etc. He did not believe they were harmful. There could be so many, many causes. And now we have the fracking controversy over here. The wastes, the pollutants from this will enter the water aquifers and pollute our drinking water for years. Perth's water relies heavily on the underground water supply supplemented by desalinated sea water. They are also pumping treated sewerage into the aquifers.

But, sorry for the long rant. Kai and I will take each day as it comes. Thanks again for all your understanding. I appreciate all your kind thoughts. One bright star is the fact that Paul is on the mend and will be going home from hospital tomorrow. It is now 8.55 so I have been typing for 50 minutes.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Amazing story. I am sorry it has to be yours, tho. Glad for the good news at the end.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Thank you every one for your kind thoughts regarding my son. I feel a little calmer today and Kai is still asleep. It is 7.55 am.
> 
> He said he has never sworn over the two way radio and has not sworn at a female employee. But this would only be his word against hers, and as she is the daughter of a long term employee who is the personal friend of the owner, well what more can I say, who is going to be believed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for sharing so much with us. It helps us to put ourselves in your place and understand all that you're going through. Its been a tough time but you're a strong woman and you've handled it well. I have found that this is a good place to find release for our frustrations. I hope that it helps you to share. It certainly helps us to be able to empathize and encourage. I know that you don't believe in GOD, but I believe that HE chose you to be Kai's mother, because you are exactly what Kai needs.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Good morning! I woke up at 4 am (couldn't sleep). I have been looking for some pictures I posted of the Canadian rockies and just found the topic which I started in 2012-as one of my friends from KP is coming here next spring.

I see Dame and many of my other friends who I have gotten to know on KP posted there.

If you like scenery, drop by. It was at the end of a really bad time in my life and I was starting to feel that things were finally picking up. If you wish to see the Rockies there are lots of pictures throughout the thread.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-81485-1.html


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Good morning! I woke up at 4 am (couldn't sleep).  I have been looking for some pictures I posted of the Canadian rockies and just found the topic which I started in 2012-as one of my friends from KP is coming here next spring.
> 
> I see Dame and many of my other friends who I have gotten to know on KP posted there.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Shirley! Your pictures are wonderful! Such beautiful scenery! I wish that I could see it in real life. Such wonders!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!! :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Eve, you have to voice your thoughts someplace, and where better than with your caring friends? 

My son was bipolar at a time it was not recognized easily, was not treated, and not taken seriously. He had trouble relating to groups of children, but was fortunate to have at least one friend during much of his short life.

I know the problems of dealing with people who know everything. My son had a teacher who seemed to deliberately put him in the path of the class bully in 5th grade. She would let the bully leave for the boys' room if my son was there and not wait for my son to be safely back in class is one example. 

It was not until he reached high school in a different town (we had moved to get into a more enlightened school system) and had a compassionate teacher that he started doing well. The teacher was in AAUW with me and tried to help me cope, too. Truly a wonderful person.

Kai is so fortunate to have a loving, sensible mother. I wish both of you the best that is possible.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Eve, you have to voice your thoughts someplace, and where better than with your caring friends?
> 
> My son was bipolar at a time it was not recognized easily, was not treated, and not taken seriously. He had trouble relating to groups of children, but was fortunate to have at least one friend during much of his short life.
> 
> ...


Every student with some kind of problem that makes it very difficult for them to do well in school when their intellectual capacity shows they could do well if a teacher or teachers could find a way around the student's problem to reach the person behind the problem is in a very difficult place.

My problem was that by the time I finished 4th grade I was bored nearly to death in every class I had. My elementary school was near a college and we had a lot of student teachers who came in to experimentally teach subjects to see how young a student could be to understand what they were being taught.

So there I was, able to read, write, do arithmetic, algebra, geometry, and was pretty good at Spanish. Unfortunately, it never occurred to me to attempt to drop out of school at age 9 and there was no school near me that could deal with me, or that my parents could afford to send me away to. I discovered daydreaming was almost as good as dropping out. I stopped participating. Didn't answer when my name was called. Didn't do any homework. I can't begin to say how many times my parents had to visit a teacher who was fed up with me. They always told these teachers to leave me alone.

Junior and senior high were a little better. I got to take Latin and Russian which were great fun!! AP Biology was fascinating. Unfortunately, every other subject was a repeat of what I had already learned so it was back to the daydreaming and my parents repeating themselves to teachers who thought I was misbehaving.

Even though I was going to public schools, I was kind of home taught. This may well have contributed to my boredom in school because my parents were enriching my education far beyond anything the public schools could do.

I'm really glad your son finally found a teacher who took the time to work with both of you. What a breath of fresh air that probably was for both of you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!! :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


That story was in the paper several weeks ago, and a few of the women in my knitting group are making nests. There are both crochet and knitting patterns provided.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yeah I read about that on another thread. Sounds like a stash buster. Does anyone here remember the organization?

MaidInBedlam wrote:
There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!! 


That story was in the paper several weeks ago, and a few of the women in my knitting group are making nests. There are both crochet and knitting patterns provided.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yeah I read about that on another thread. Sounds like a stash buster. Does anyone here remember the organization?
> 
> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!!
> ...


Here's the link, but the campaign ends 8/31/14.

http://www.wildcarebayarea.org/site/PageServer?pagename=babybirdnest_homepage


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Here's the link, but the campaign ends 8/31/14.
> 
> http://www.wildcarebayarea.org/site/PageServer?pagename=babybirdnest_homepage


Thanks for the link. I guess it is fortify your nest season now for the birds with an end date of 8/31/14.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Yeah I read about that on another thread. Sounds like a stash buster. Does anyone here remember the organization?
> 
> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!!
> ...


I don't read any newspapers so the story was new to me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feed the birds, much to DH's chagrin. A blue heron has eaten my goldfish. Hummingbirds eat out of feeders as I'm hanging them. And a pair of hawks hunt regularly. Call of the wild.

And this morning a noticed a baby woodpecker hopping around....just in time to see him take a hop into the pond. As I dashed to get the skimmer to save him (wish I finished my knitted nest) I saw him hop on the water hyacinths and jump out the other side. From there he hopped up a masonry wall. So much for rescuing baby birds.

Beats TV anytime.



SQM said:


> Yeah I read about that on another thread. Sounds like a stash buster. Does anyone here remember the organization?
> 
> MaidInBedlam wrote:
> There was a nice piece on NBC evening news last night that featured ladies knitting little birds' nests to be use to save abandoned baby birds. Hooray for charitable knitting!!
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I feed the birds, much to DH's chagrin. A blue heron has eaten my goldfish. Hummingbirds eat out of feeders as I'm hanging them. And a pair of hawks hunt regularly. Call of the wild.
> 
> And this morning a noticed a baby woodpecker hopping around....just in time to see him take a hop into the pond. As I dashed to get the skimmer to save him (wish I finished my knitted nest) I saw him hop on the water hyacinths and jump out the other side. From there he hopped up a masonry wall. So much for rescuing baby birds.
> Beats TV anytime.


Great story and Our Own EMS Crew of One did a valiant job with her attempt to rescue the baby. Tell us more about knitting a net. Yours is not a NYC story.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Damemary, I'm off the subject, as usual. That's another beautiful avatar!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I couldn't find needles small enough to knit the skimmer. Have to make do with the boughten (Amish) kind.

Just think of it as a tale from the wilds of suburbia. I'm learning Yiddish from younse (mountains of PA) guys.



SQM said:


> Great story and Our Own EMS Crew of One did a valiant job with her attempt to rescue the baby. Tell us more about knitting a net. Yours is not a NYC story.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I couldn't find needles small enough to knit the skimmer. Have to make do with the boughten (Amish) kind.
> 
> Just think of it as a tale from the wilds of suburbia. I'm learning Yiddish from younse (mountains of PA) guys.


I could not picture two things about your post - the boughten and what or who is younse guys?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I feed the birds, much to DH's chagrin. A blue heron has eaten my goldfish. Hummingbirds eat out of feeders as I'm hanging them. And a pair of hawks hunt regularly. Call of the wild.
> 
> And this morning a noticed a baby woodpecker hopping around....just in time to see him take a hop into the pond. As I dashed to get the skimmer to save him (wish I finished my knitted nest) I saw him hop on the water hyacinths and jump out the other side. From there he hopped up a masonry wall. So much for rescuing baby birds.
> 
> Beats TV anytime.


What a wonderful way to spend time! We live in a fairly new neighborhood where the trees are still quite small. So we don't see a lot of birds. We always have robins, though. DH wanted to put a screened cover over the strawberries but I urged him to wait. The birds need to eat too. I love watching them. And after all, I can buy strawberries. They also love to eat our apples. I love to watch how they care for their little ones. The daddies are so attentive and protective. Nature at it's finest!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> I could not picture two things about your post - the boughten and what or who is younse guys?


I know that language! I have a lot of family from the beautiful cool mountains of Pennsylvania. I don't want to take it from Damemary, though. I liked hearing that - it took me back. Coal mining country.

We visited there every summer. Crystal clear air, cool mornings in summer, afternoons warm enough to swim. Best of all - Grandma's cooking. Best of the best - her homemade bread.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What a wonderful way to spend time! We live in a fairly new neighborhood where the trees are still quite small. So we don't see a lot of birds. We always have robins, though. DH wanted to put a screened cover over the strawberries but I urged him to wait. The birds need to eat too. I love watching them. And after all, I can buy strawberries. They also love to eat our apples. I love to watch how they care for their little ones. The daddies are so attentive and protective. Nature at it's finest!


That's very generous of you - almost like feeding the birds from your own table.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Boughten is a PA Dutch phrase. Younse guys is a corruption used in Appalachia. I'm just being smartypants because you've all helped us all with Yiddish. We all extend our language skills.



SQM said:


> I could not picture two things about your post - the boughten and what or who is younse guys?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You got it Bonnie. There's a special bond.



bonbf3 said:


> I know that language! I have a lot of family from the beautiful cool mountains of Pennsylvania. I don't want to take it from Damemary, though. I liked hearing that - it took me back. Coal mining country.
> 
> We visited there every summer. Crystal clear air, cool mornings in summer, afternoons warm enough to swim. Best of all - Grandma's cooking. Best of the best - her homemade bread.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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