# Are you personally better off today than 4 years ago?



## annamatilda (Aug 10, 2012)

For myself NO. No raise in Social Security for 2 years, then when there was a raise, the cost of medicare went up.
Interest rate on my small IRA went from 3.25% in January 2009 to .85% today.
Prices of everything else has gone up, including the price of yarn.


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## smontero237 (Dec 5, 2011)

NO! Due to ecomomy my income was slashed almost 50%, I was on commission and both my company and the client "restructered", keeping more of the income I generated for themselves. 

In one month my homeowner assn. increased from 250.00 to 500.00 for repairs. My impound account also increased 250.00 since they were not taking enough out for taxes. I was struggling to keep my home and this turned out to be the fatal blow.

I lost my home and moved to be near family, I was unable to find a job in my field. I eventually took a job that I did in my younger days but unable to do now. 

I had a nervous breakdown, then broke my leg which didn't heal. I had fusion surgery so my foot doesn't move. I am unable to work so thank goodness I was eventually approved for SSDI.

But because I don't work members of my family have decided I am lazy and worthless and treat me so. I am miserable and to be honest KP is the highlight of my day.


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## jheiens (Jan 20, 2011)

Actually we are somewhat. Four years ago, over 50% of our investments were lost with the stock market panic. Now we've regained almost all of it. So, yes, we're doing better than we were back then. And the COLA for the SS took care of the rise in the Medicare Part B.

So, again, we are better off. Does my 37 yo daughter have a job? No. Does she have any paying clients for her new business yet? No. Does she see the economy of this tri-county area moving in a positive direction, YES!! So we are trusting God, in His wisdom, to help us to see this through to a successful outcome. 

Thanks for asking. Ohio Joy


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## christine4321 (Jun 10, 2012)

I am so sorry that you are going through a hell of a time. Please know that you are not worthless. Many times when we are suffering so our self esteem plummets. Is there a chance that you just may be feeling so low that you may be interpreting things regarding your family different? I don't know myself but what I do know is that when anxious or depressed we may perceive things much differently than we normally would have when we are healthy. I wish you well. Take Care


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Nope. Although my job hasn't changed, including my wages, my husband's income has dropped drastically. He is self employed and is lucky to work one day month. Used to be everyday. Because he is self employed, he is unable to collect unemployment. It all sucks.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Definitely not.

My job was eliminated in 2010 due to massive cuts in the state education budget. To date all efforts to find another job have been futile. On the rare response I have received to a job application, the message has been "Sorry, too overqualified".

My house is currently worth less than 1/3 of the 2007 estimated value and the mortgage is twice the current value of the house. The positive aspect is I can still afford the monthly mortgage payment.


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## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

Yes. My husband and I were forced into early retirement in 2005, when our companies moved our jobs overseas, to China. Fortunately, we saw the handwriting on the wall, and planned out the next phase of our lives. We paid off the mortgage was paid off early, and we were able to buy a smaller house in another part of the country where the housing costs were much smaller. 

We also have recovered most of what we lost in our IRAs and 401K accounts. Hubby is now getting Social Security and Medicare, but I'm not yet. We are able to meet all our expenses with 2 small pensions & his SS.

We have our health and we've always lived below our means and saved as much money as we could, so we don't see any difference in our lifestyle.


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## jheiens (Jan 20, 2011)

mojave said:


> Definitely not.
> 
> My job was eliminated in 2010 due to massive cuts in the state education budget. To date all efforts to find another job have been futile. On the rare response I have received to a job application, the message has been "Sorry, too overqualified".
> 
> My house is currently worth less than 1/3 of the 2007 estimated value and the mortgage is twice the current value of the house. The positive aspect is I can still afford the monthly mortgage payment.


There is always that much to be grateful for, isn't there?


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Yes, I am. Despite not having received a raise for four years, we have managed to pay off our home. Our property taxes have been able to be reduced due to the fact that my DH reached 65 years of age. We are both reasonably healthy, eat well every day, have three great dogs and three good producing gardens. So, life is pretty good for us.


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## sandj (May 16, 2012)

No, I would have done a lot more things if it wasn't for the economy. Try looking for work in Florida, it's not good. Good question?


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## kiffer (Jun 3, 2011)

No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

kiffer said:


> No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


Hmmm.... This former faculty member would rather give you and so many others on both sides of the political fence an F for using a quote out of context.

Cannot argue with the rest of your comment.


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## Aran (Apr 11, 2011)

Yes, I am. Even though I have the same job, I've received a couple of pay raises. I just paid off my car, and currently have more money in the bank than I've ever had before.

On a more personal note, my life is WAY better than it was 4 years ago because at this time 4 years ago, I was struggling to accept my true self. I'm happy to report that I did & changed my life accordingly & life is much better.


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## Laura Lee (Apr 23, 2012)

No! I was still working four years ago. I gave up my job three years ago when I was diagnosed with cancer. Hubby and I are saddled with medical bills because we both have health issues.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, I think we are. Husband still working. I'm on disability and we've always lived below our means. We've invested conservatively and don't touch yet. We do what we can to secure our future.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo on still being able to pay mortgage. That's the key. If you plan on being in the house for 7+ years you should have good equity in the house.



mojave said:


> Definitely not.
> 
> My job was eliminated in 2010 due to massive cuts in the state education budget. To date all efforts to find another job have been futile. On the rare response I have received to a job application, the message has been "Sorry, too overqualified".
> 
> My house is currently worth less than 1/3 of the 2007 estimated value and the mortgage is twice the current value of the house. The positive aspect is I can still afford the monthly mortgage payment.


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## KatStabe (Nov 22, 2011)

No! Lost my job, we lost the house, are now on welfare. And before anyone accuses, I don't have internet. I go downtown and use free Wifi.


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## catzndogz (Apr 6, 2011)

Aran said:


> Yes, I am. Even though I have the same job, I've received a couple of pay raises. I just paid off my car, and currently have more money in the bank than I've ever had before.
> 
> On a more personal note, my life is WAY better than it was 4 years ago because at this time 4 years ago, I was struggling to accept my true self. I'm happy to report that I did & changed my life accordingly & life is much better.


good for you


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

No. Prices are escalating. We are on food stamps. We have not gotten a COLA raise on them in a year. We are supposed to get the card refilled tomorrow, but they're acting like they don't want to. Almost out of groceries. Do I want this guy back in the White House? NO!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

To KatStabe: Hope things improve for you very soon.

To StitchDesigner: Hope your battle with the beauracracy ends in your favor.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

No! Our sons parking lot business got in trouble with the bad economy . We had to take money out of our saving that we will never recover even tho they paid us back. All prices have gone up on everything! Not a good 4 years at this home! Not happy about it either.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

annamatilda said:


> For myself NO. No raise in Social Security for 2 years, then when there was a raise, the cost of medicare went up.
> Interest rate on my small IRA went from 3.25% in January 2009 to .85% today.
> Prices of everything else has gone up, including the price of yarn.


 Amen!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

KatStabe said:


> No! Lost my job, we lost the house, are now on welfare. And before anyone accuses, I don't have internet. I go downtown and use free Wifi.


So sorry to hear that. :-(


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

NO, But I'm so much better than many others,so I'm very thankful. We've always lived below our means. When my husband was disabled and had to retire, we moved to our home state and made sure that the house, vehicles and everything else was paid for. I am more worried about my children and grandchildren that I am myself. They are struggling to make it with the cost of everything going up.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Absolutely no! We are NOT better off. Our standard of living has dropped because the cost of living has gone up. Also,we feel an obligation to help our adult children who have been affected by the awful economic conditions. We have had to make mortgage payments for one who lost his job and was out of work for more than a year. Others have needed help with rent and basic living expenses. The cost of gasoline alone is $4.15 per gallon for the 'cheap stuff' and that makes everything we buy and everything we do cost more. The money has to come from somewhere.

Our 'comfortable retirement' is not as comfortable as we planned. We'll be ok, but we are very worried about our children's and grand children's future. 

P.S. I don't even like to think about the real estate values and how much we've "lost." The rental market never goes down, and with more people losing their homes the rental prices will continue to go up! We are hit either way!


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## druidsgirl (Sep 24, 2011)

They reakon this recession (world wide) will last a generation before we fight our way out of it. The debt just got too high and the crash is awful. We are lucky in that we work for ourselves and the people we work for are somewhat insulated to a degree but I don't expect that to last forever. On top of that I feel sorry for those in the US as a huge loss of crops and other weather disasters are just rubbing salt into the wound. I hope things start to look up for you all soon.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I think a lot of us are worse off,compeared to 4 years ago. :lol: :lol:


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## BobnDejasMom (Jun 2, 2011)

KatStabe said:


> No! Lost my job, we lost the house, are now on welfare. And before anyone accuses, I don't have internet. I go downtown and use free Wifi.


Too bad you don't have it at home. I have an acquaintance who actually found a job that she does online helping kids in other countries learn English. I don't know how or where to find that job. It actually sounds like fun.


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## CrystalP (Jan 19, 2012)

This is a world where the govennment only cares about lining their own pockets and screwing us anyway they can. I don't beleive a word that comes out of any polititian's mouth. They say what they want us to hear to get voted in, then they screw us. 
Our kids are our future, and for a government to cut education funding is just plain WRONG!!


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## Xiang (Sep 3, 2011)

I am probably not as well off financially as I was 4 years ago, but Spiritually and Psychologically I am 100% better off. I am on a DSP, which is not a very high income. Since leaving the work force - due to medical conditions, I am much happier and am able to see my family and Grandchildren more often. I can get the rest I need and am not stressed out through having to spend a large amount of time with a large number of people - so, in my opinion, I am much better off now, than I was 4 years ago :thumbup:


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## kiwi girl (Jun 19, 2012)

No I'm afraid not. We moved back to New Zealand last November (had to take a loss on selling our house in Yucaipa CA) thinking it would be better here but not so, things are so expensive over here, we pay almost $8 a gallon for milk and almost the same for a gallon of gas. As well as that we have to pay $300 a week rent, at least in California we only had to pay $600 a month mortgage. Don't get me wrong I love New Zealand but.......


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

Google President Obama's quote, "You did not build that," and read the entire quote. He was talking about all that goes into a successful business, the country's schools, roads, teachers, etc. that helped you along the way to building that business. He was referring to that, not to the business you built.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

Absolutely not! Pray every day that my husband will keep his job, cost of everything is higher, and my health insurance cost is ridiculous!


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

I am alot worse off. Four years ago I was getting child support for my daughter and I was on a Supporting Parents Pension and I delivered brochures and telephone books to supplement my income. These days I am on a disability pension, in public housing, no savings whatsoever, a very old car and heaps of aging animals with lots of medical problems and no ability to work but mentally I am better than I was last year going through a very dark time and no light at the end of the tunnel. My animals have put me in more debt but I love them so much and they help me cope and they always make me smile. I have re-discovered knitting along with KP and I have developed enthusiasm for it like never before. I have been doing adult schooling for the last two years which has helped me also. I am not well but oh so much better with a brighter outlook and my unending sense of humour. In that way I am much better off.


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## Knitter forever (Dec 11, 2011)

He'll NO.


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## Knitter forever (Dec 11, 2011)

HELL NO.


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## elsiemarley (Jul 27, 2012)

Yes, I am better off because I don't judge my life by finances. With an attitude adjustment I applied for and got some assistance. I cook simply, dress simply, live simply, walk and use pubic transportation. Only have three monthly bills, rent, electric and phone/internet. I have more discretionary income than many of my friends whose much larger income has to go for more bills that I can ever conceive of. Having creative things to do, a good library for reading, listening and viewing pleasure and good health carry me forward, welcoming each day as it comes.


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## druidsgirl (Sep 24, 2011)

CrystalP said:


> This is a world where the govennment only cares about lining their own pockets and screwing us anyway they can. I don't beleive a word that comes out of any polititian's mouth. They say what they want us to hear to get voted in, then they screw us.
> Our kids are our future, and for a government to cut education funding is just plain WRONG!!


I agree with you on cutting funding to education. Cutting funding to health and education is really short sighted as that is what secures the future. Cutting funding to education and apprenticeships had an adverse effect on us in the recession in the 80's and when the economy picked up there was a real shortage of skilled people and we then began impoting them. Damn stupid.


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## Hudson (Mar 3, 2011)

We are ok. I haven't had health insurance in more than a decade so that is no different. Gas is not $4/gal as it was several years back. We have paid off our house and cars. The downside of our lives is the deaths of our parents, my brother and friends younger than we are.


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## delite163 (Mar 13, 2012)

snoozi_suzi said:


> Yes, I think we are. Husband still working. I'm on disability and we've always lived below our means. We've invested conservatively and don't touch yet. We do what we can to secure our future.


Well on the "I built it myself". I know that many small businesses have taken advantage of all the government perks when it comes to hiring the unemployed. Getting help on paying a percentage of new hires wages and and so on. I know about the tax write off because I had a small business from the 1990's through the early 2000's.

Lots of property tax breaks for moving into certain communities. Lots of tax breaks for wining and dining new customer's and so on. Everything then becomes a tax break if you are in business. I own two cars and both were allowed as a tax deduction, because they were used in conjunction with my business.

I wasn't hurt so much by the crash because I am now retired. I have been like you snoozi_suzi . Live very modestly...I stay out of debt. If I don't have the cash...I don't buy it. I also rely on God who is my provider.


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## grandmaof7 (Feb 6, 2011)

NO!!!!


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes I am. Because of the housing market inflation we were told our home was worth over $650,000. While planning to sell, I became disabled and the stock market fell and I lost my job due to my disability, lost the value in our home so that we couldn't give it away, but still owed $350,000 on it. Lost all our savings and went through bankruptcy. 
I can say I am much better off 4 years later financially than I was then even though I am unable to work.


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## travelingal (Jul 31, 2012)

After reading all the "negatives" above, aren't we lucky to have SSI, Social Security and Medicare, not to mention the new Health Care? Outsourcing has caused a lot of us to lose our jobs, but things ARE getting better and our government is our safety net. Also note that those of us who lost money in the market are getting it back double now!


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## Kitchener (Apr 24, 2012)

Yes, I'm alive and the sun still comes up every morning.


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## WelshWooly (Jul 4, 2012)

Yes, unemployed for 2 years before retirement age and had to live on my savings as they were too high to get any benefits, I retired and my state pension and my works pension kicked in 2 years ago and I was better off than when I was working.
State pension. Here in the UK a full time worker pays into a sate run pension plan and the employer also contributes so when you retire you get a livable but not extravagant amount on a weekly basis. i was one of the lucky ones whose employer offered a private pension scheme as well and I grabbed it with both hands. I have noticed that the money doewsn't go as far as it did but I'm stlii better off than I was 4 years agol.


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## kacey64 (Mar 23, 2011)

No! I was forced into retirement from a position I loved. Pricess rising, the economy is plummeting world-wide, we are in costant wars and a depression that will make the Great Depression look like a picnic is looming! I worry about the future of my children, grands and great-grands as well as the children of the world because of what the future holds. Things are not getting better in this country or any other. Not for anyone!


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## jjs21582 (Sep 19, 2011)

Yes! My husband was out of work. This led to some health issues, which led to an early cancer diagnosis. He was treated and is cancer free and has a wonderful job. This are MUCH better for us!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Every time I read about how much people "lost" on real estate or how much "value" their home lost I'm somewhat amused. For a very long time, real estate values were artificially inflated. WHO benefited from this? The "lending" industry, mortgage companies and banks. Larger mortgages, more interest. We saw how well that worked out and how the lending industry had to be "bailed out", now didn't we? 

While prices of some things went up, many others went down. Compare the costs of electronics, like TV's, DVD players, etc.. Those have gone down because now they all come from overseas where labor is much cheaper. Think what do we make here in the US...Food, energy and then there's that whole oil importing/refining industry. The price of those things have gone up.

Interesting isn't it?


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## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

No, I am not better off. My health has worsened, food stamps went down, food prices went up, cost of propane has gone up, cost of gasoline has gone up, Medicare costs have gone up, but, you know what? None of that matters because I know and believe and have faith in my God to see me through all of this.And, I found out a long time ago that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

Read in the Bible 2Timothy 3: 1-4.
Interesting.


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## Gypsycream (Nov 23, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Every time I read about how much people "lost" on real estate or how much "value" their home lost I'm somewhat amused. For a very long time, real estate values were artificially inflated. WHO benefited from this? The "lending" industry, mortgage companies and banks. Larger mortgages, more interest. We saw how well that worked out and how the lending industry had to be "bailed out", now didn't we?
> 
> While prices of some things went up, many others went down. Compare the costs of electronics, like TV's, DVD players, etc.. Those have gone down because now they all come from overseas where labor is much cheaper. Think what do we make here in the US...Food, energy and then there's that whole oil importing/refining industry. The price of those things have gone up.
> 
> Interesting isn't it?


Think you've summed it up in one. Its swings and roundabouts isn't it?


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense. 
It's been the rich get richer, the poor get the blame, and the working stiffs pay the bill ever since the Republicans got control of Congress. 
My savings are all but gone. The interest on savings is a bad joke. I live below my means and still struggle with finances. I have never been a big spender. I have a big mortgage. I'm 72 and I still have to work to pay that mortgage. I haven't taken a vacation in 20 years. I need a new pair of shoes and I wonder where the money will come from.
NO, I'm not better off than I was four years ago, or 14 years ago, for that matter, and it's all the Republican Congress' fault!


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## Ellemck (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, I am doing much better than 4 years ago.


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## Jean Keith (Feb 17, 2011)

Yes, I am better off with less worries than I had four years ago when two of my children had lost their jobs and had no health insurance. Both of them have found new jobs. One was able to go to school to learn a different job and also has health insurance. My son found a job in another city and his insurance covers one of his children that had a pre-existing condition that 4 years ago was not covered. I don't have worries there. My 26 year old grandson is now able to go to school with a Pell grant and has found a good job to help pay for his schooling along with the grant plus he is able to get his medicine free.

I am no longer in the donut hole as far as my prescriptions are concerned and am saving some money as my insurance now covers part of the cost.


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## thebebe (Jan 29, 2011)

No, we are not better off financially than 4 years ago. We live simply, live within our means, but I see many dear friends around us in a great struggle just to keep going.


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

Dsynr said:


> I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense.
> It's been the rich get richer, the poor get the blame, and the working stiffs pay the bill ever since the Republicans got control of Congress.
> My savings are all but gone. The interest on savings is a bad joke. I live below my means and still struggle with finances. I have never been a big spender. I have a big mortgage. I'm 72 and I still have to work to pay that mortgage. I haven't taken a vacation in 20 years. I need a new pair of shoes and I wonder where the money will come from.
> NO, I'm not better off than I was four years ago, or 14 years ago, for that matter, and it's all the Republican Congress' fault!


Amen to that!


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## azmoonbugs (Dec 2, 2011)

YES! My son has insurance due to the new healthcare laws.

I have a better job and house prices are starting to rise.


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## DottieH (Mar 2, 2012)

marylo12 said:


> Dsynr said:
> 
> 
> > I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense.
> ...


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## LindaH (Feb 1, 2011)

The president did NOT say what that quote claims that he did. They chopped it up and spliced it to make it sound that way. If you really want to know what he said then please go here:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/

By the way, we are better off than we were 4 years ago. There is a LOT left to do, as President Obama says, but I know that there is no way that any 1 man or woman could successfully fix that legacy that Bush left for the incoming president in 4 years!


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## crochet_away (Dec 20, 2011)

Definitely NOT!! without mentioning the dreaded financial worries, in the last 4 years i've seen my dad have a heart attack which needed surgery, I lost my mam to dementia (aged 63) my youngest son decided to go live with his dad (now i only see him once in a blue moon)
but the final kick in the teeth was 4 weeks ago when my best friend ended her own life...
So I feel about as low as i have ever been...


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## sandipawz (Apr 13, 2011)

Yes, I am financially better off than 4 years ago.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

No, absolutely not. Everything is much higher and since gasoline is major expense in my business the bottom line is less.Jobs are a rarity for my grandchildren, temporary or low paying, regardless of education.


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

Let us not forget Osama Bin Laden and that whole mess.....


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## azmoonbugs (Dec 2, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Every time I read about how much people "lost" on real estate or how much "value" their home lost I'm somewhat amused.
> Interesting isn't it?


My husband and I bought a house in a market that was super hot the month before the housing market crashed. Our house would sell today for half of what we paid for it. But, I pointed out to him that if we had rented from the month we bought the house to now, we would have spent the same amount of money on rent with nothing to show for it!


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

crochet_away said:


> Definitely NOT!! without mentioning the dreaded financial worries, in the last 4 years i've seen my dad have a heart attack which needed surgery, I lost my mam to dementia (aged 63) my youngest son decided to go live with his dad (now i only see him once in a blue moon)
> but the final kick in the teeth was 4 weeks ago when my best friend ended her own life...
> So I feel about as low as i have ever been...


I am so sorry to hear how bad things are. I can sympathise because my mum has dementia and my youngest daughter left 20 months ago to live with her dad and things are so horrible between us and will never be fixed. I hope things improve for you and probably will even though you don't think so now. I am here to listen if you ever need a shoulder and you are welcome to PM anytime.


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## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

No, the price of everything is going up and I am looking for a job and helping my son financially who had back surgery and has been waiting for a full-time opening at his company for 5 years.


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## yeneek (Jul 3, 2012)

I haven't seen it myself, but I have heard the movie "2016" is in theatres now. I think everyone needs to make time to see it, very eye opening. It will refresh your memory of the last four years.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

kiffer said:


> No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


Not exactly what he said, try not listening to talking points. Do your research.


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## sandease (Nov 11, 2011)

Yes! Absolutely things are better for us. Three years ago we moved from MN to Eastern ND. Our ND state income taxes are only 1/3 of what we paid in MN. Our Real Estate taxes are 1/2 to 1/3 of what MN RE taxes are. My husband is retired and gets SS and retirement pension. I was valued enough at my job that they let me keep it and I telecommute from home to the office in MN. We have no mortgage on our farm. We love it here and are SO glad we moved here.


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## pam1954 (Apr 26, 2012)

Most of us aren't rich and never will be and we struggle to get by every month..but we are alive..the sun is shining..birds are singing..and we have someone who loves us..whether it be a husband..child..friend..etc..we have bad times and good times...all we can hope is that there are more good than bad


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## crochet_away (Dec 20, 2011)

Chezl said:


> crochet_away said:
> 
> 
> > Definitely NOT!! without mentioning the dreaded financial worries, in the last 4 years i've seen my dad have a heart attack which needed surgery, I lost my mam to dementia (aged 63) my youngest son decided to go live with his dad (now i only see him once in a blue moon)
> ...


Thank you for that.. the same applies to you also regarding PM's 
I sometimes find it difficult to air my own woes but i do have a good ear and strong shoulders.


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## MPolaski (Mar 14, 2011)

Well, yes and no. I started my business a year ago. I don't have any new clients, but I haven't lost any either. We're a retired military family, so we have health insurance, and prescription coverage but no vision or dental. My husband is a government contractor and has been continuously employed for the past 4 years (longer actually), but on September 20 the contract he's working on expires and there is no hope of renewal because Congress can't pass a budget. When he loses his job, we lose our dental and vision coverage. Not sure what we're going to do after that. But this job was a gift from God so we're pretty confident that God's plan will be revealed soon. Sometimes trusting God is the hardest thing to do.


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> No. Prices are escalating. We are on food stamps. We have not gotten a COLA raise on them in a year. We are supposed to get the card refilled tomorrow, but they're acting like they don't want to. Almost out of groceries. Do I want this guy back in the White House? NO!!!!!!!!!!!


The president is not responsible for no change in food stamp allotments - the Ryan Budget that was passed several times from the House of Representatives is the document that wants to cut food stamps. Place the blame at the right spot please.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

No - retired, fixed income. I can't complain of real suffering, but the price of everything has gone up - and we are more mindful of giving discrete help to grown children with families and lots of expenses. We can't give as much, and we buy less and pay more. So - not better.


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> Google President Obama's quote, "You did not build that," and read the entire quote. He was talking about all that goes into a successful business, the country's schools, roads, teachers, etc. that helped you along the way to building that business. He was referring to that, not to the business you built.


Thank you - someone who did not pull this quote out to support their personal beliefs. Fire departments, police, safety, water, environmental support - if every business owner got a bill for their roads and everything noted here they would have no business. They are supported by tax payers and their customers. The business owners keep telling us it's supply and demand - demand is a customer.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

yeneek said:


> I haven't seen it myself, but I have heard the movie "2016" is in theatres now. I think everyone needs to make time to see it, very eye opening. It will refresh your memory of the last four years.


I did see it and every voter should see it and form their own opinion. Quite an eye opener.


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## hgayle (Aug 22, 2011)

I seriously don't understand how anyone can be better off financially than they were four years ago. Prices have risen on almost ALL non-durable goods, housing prices have dropped, and I doubt that most people's income has risen at a pace to keep up with inflation. My kids are not better off even tho they all have good jobs. Neither my daughter or her husband have gotten pay raises for 3 years; my oldest son had to close 2 restaurants; and another son's yearly bonus was way down the last two years (he's also in the restaurant business). Why? Because of the poor economy!


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## Rockrose (Dec 7, 2011)

mojave said:


> kiffer said:
> 
> 
> > No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............
> ...


Yes!!!


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

travelingal said:


> After reading all the "negatives" above, aren't we lucky to have SSI, Social Security and Medicare, not to mention the new Health Care? Outsourcing has caused a lot of us to lose our jobs, but things ARE getting better and our government is our safety net. Also note that those of us who lost money in the market are getting it back double now!


Yeah, travelingal - thanks for the safety nets and the folks in the past who cared enough to put them in place.


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

Dsynr said:


> I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense.
> It's been the rich get richer, the poor get the blame, and the working stiffs pay the bill ever since the Republicans got control of Congress.
> My savings are all but gone. The interest on savings is a bad joke. I live below my means and still struggle with finances. I have never been a big spender. I have a big mortgage. I'm 72 and I still have to work to pay that mortgage. I haven't taken a vacation in 20 years. I need a new pair of shoes and I wonder where the money will come from.
> NO, I'm not better off than I was four years ago, or 14 years ago, for that matter, and it's all the Republican Congress' fault!


agree except IMHO it started with President Reagan - according to the statistics I've read I haven't done anything but lose financially since 1980.


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## User5935 (Feb 9, 2011)

yes. 4 yrs ago I was 5 months pregnant and had been walking on concrete floors for way too long while doing home renos. And I lived in a hot sandly environment with long needle pine trees, terroristic mosquitos and fire ants. And we were wondering if and where my husband would get into medical school. Now we have a much lower income, but I've had as many mosquito bites in 2 1/2 yrs as I'd get in about 10 minutes back there. The area is beautiful with all 4 seasons, and my kids go to betters schools. The littlest one is home with me. I don't have to work, I think I know what I want to be when I grow up (I'm 30). My husband is doing well and in his 3rd yr of school and may be an orthopedic surgeon afterall, only time will tell. I also learned to knit and found this site with all you wonderful people!


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## Rockrose (Dec 7, 2011)

Are you better off than in 2004?


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

LindaH said:


> The president did NOT say what that quote claims that he did. They chopped it up and spliced it to make it sound that way. If you really want to know what he said then please go here:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/
> 
> By the way, we are better off than we were 4 years ago. There is a LOT left to do, as President Obama says, but I know that there is no way that any 1 man or woman could successfully fix that legacy that Bush left for the incoming president in 4 years!


agree


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## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

yeneek said:


> I haven't seen it myself, but I have heard the movie "2016" is in theatres now. I think everyone needs to make time to see it, very eye opening. It will refresh your memory of the last four years.


Again - one persons biased opinion - little different from Michael Moore.

IMHO it would be nice if we used facts not talking points.


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## MPolaski (Mar 14, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> plainjane8283 said:
> 
> 
> > Google President Obama's quote, "You did not build that," and read the entire quote. He was talking about all that goes into a successful business, the country's schools, roads, teachers, etc. that helped you along the way to building that business. He was referring to that, not to the business you built.
> ...


As a business owner, I do understand what goes into the infrastructure that supports my business. I am a freelance paralegal. I work from my home. I pay taxes -- both as a business owner and a citizen of the state. In fact, I had to pay property taxes on my home twice this year -- once on the whole house (including my office space) as residential space, and once on my office space as office space. Because I'm a "virtual" paralegal, I rely on such things as the Internet, which infrastructure is supported by various government agencies. However, when we first moved here, there was no cable or internet. It cost $15,000 to have a cable drop run from the nearest town to my house, which I was responsible for, not the government. When we got back from being stationed in Japan, not only did the entire street have cable, but so did the new subdivision behind us. I started my company with no loans from anyone. I was not born or raised in the US, so I am not beholden to the US government for my primary and secondary education. I do hold a bachelor's and a master's degree from US universities, however, I got both of those with no loans, grants, or free money from anyone. I live in a rural area with a volunteer fire department. I support them in their fundraisers, which I'm sure do not raise enough money to actually cover their operating expenses, but yes, I contribute directly to the emergency services that serve my area. Business owners do get a bill for all the roads and other ancillary services that support them. It's part of the taxes they pay and believe me, business owners get taxed at a different rate than residents. And business owners get taxed twice -- once for the business and once for being residents. I could not run my business without the infrastructure provided, however, believe me I also pay for that infrastructure.


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## Tonka's Mom (Mar 26, 2012)

Definately YES. My hubby got a raise this year, my sister 
found a job after looking for almost 2 1/2 years, my BIL actually got a big raise from the University, and our 401K 
accounts are up. So things are better, and hopefully will continue to improve! Cross your fingers! I hope everyone out there doesn't give up. Keep looking. It's hard to stay positive, I know.


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## SarahRussell (Jun 14, 2011)

Yes, I've recovered what I lost in the stock market. My kids are too. One has a great new job, one became CEO of a construction company, one has a great job as a property manager, and one is actually making a living as an artist. We're doing good!!


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## dixieknits (Apr 12, 2011)

The tax cuts for the wealthy that republicans invented and want to continue have not led to more jobs. If low taxes for the wealthy meant more jobs, we should have a roaring economy. Obviously the less they pay in taxes, the more profit they pocket while the rest of us pay the bills. People earning $250,00.00 a year and more, can afford to pay the same percent of their income in taxes as the rest of us. When you engage in 2 wars and lower taxes for the wealthy, outsource jobs, you burn at both ends.


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## Rockrose (Dec 7, 2011)

dixieknits said:


> The tax cuts for the wealthy that republicans invented and want to continue have not led to more jobs. If low taxes for the wealthy meant more jobs, we should have a roaring economy. Obviously the less they pay in taxes, the more profit they pocket while the rest of us pay the bills. People earning $250,00.00 a year and more, can afford to pay the same percent of their income in taxes as the rest of us. When you engage in 2 wars and lower taxes for the wealthy, outsource jobs, you burn at both ends.


Right on!


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## tricia488 (Jul 26, 2011)

Yes, I believe we are. When we moved to Pollock Pines in 2007, we had no jobs and were living on savings and income from my Ebay sales. At the end of 2009, Barry started his online business (Glacier Point for Cats) for a ceramic cat fountain he had developed. We were immediately sued by the Drinkwell company for patent infringement, but we defended ourselves without an attorney and won the case in federal court in 2010. While my Ebay sales have dropped by 50%, Barry's cat fountain sales have continued to grow and are consistently increasing, despite the slow economy. We are still working entirely from home doing all the work ourselves but Barry has found an unemployed cabinet maker who is able to help him on a part time basis. Customer reviews have been great and prospects are looking good for continued growth of our business. Instead of relying on others to create jobs, we decided to become entrepreneurs and become responsible for our own livelihood. It's slow progress but it's in the right direction.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Propaganda or not?



yeneek said:


> I haven't seen it myself, but I have heard the movie "2016" is in theatres now. I think everyone needs to make time to see it, very eye opening. It will refresh your memory of the last four years.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

snoozi_suzi said:


> Propaganda or not?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why don't you see it and decide for yourself???


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## KnitterNatalie (Feb 20, 2011)

NO, not at all!!!


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

Aran said:


> Yes, I am. Even though I have the same job, I've received a couple of pay raises. I just paid off my car, and currently have more money in the bank than I've ever had before.
> 
> On a more personal note, my life is WAY better than it was 4 years ago because at this time 4 years ago, I was struggling to accept my true self. I'm happy to report that I did & changed my life accordingly & life is much better.


Aran so nice to see you here. Haven't seen or heard from you for some time. Welcome back. Well at least I think I haven't seen you here for a while. LOL!!! That is great that things are going well for you. Congradulations for paying off your car. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

We are worse off then we were four years ago. Every month is a struggle
Pray every day for God to help us out of our problems and my husband gets a job
We lost all our retirement and because of health issues I am unable to work and my husbands age over 60 is a problem


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## Neeterbug (May 25, 2011)

We are okay...but, our IRAs are making no interest; our house value is way down but the taxes on our house are the same; insurance supplement has gone up (but have to have it with my medical history); cost of gas is way up; cost of food is up; the transmission went out in the truck; our well went dry and had to drill another one; and, this list goes on and on and on!!!! We also have to think twice about eating out...have to figure out what big bills are due. But we are doing okay!!!


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## machriste (Jan 26, 2011)

I think we are probably about the same, but well and happy. Jack has retired, but I'm still working and drawing social security, so am able to invest some each year. We both noted recently that our investments are doing much better than in 2008. We have rented for about 10 years, so have not lost anything in house value. Fortunately, our rent has not increased (as of today--but who knows.) We feel like we have a good life and are very fortunate.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> No. Prices are escalating. We are on food stamps. We have not gotten a COLA raise on them in a year. We are supposed to get the card refilled tomorrow, but they're acting like they don't want to. Almost out of groceries. Do I want this guy back in the White House? NO!!!!!!!!!!!


I am in the same situation you are. Had to go on food stamps and I am getting Section 8 housing assistance now. I ahve been working this job for over 2 years now. No raise this year and I am barely able to make my portion of the rent. The rent goes up for me and I imagine everyone else every other year. Once I pay my portion of the rent I am left with pretty much nothing for the next 2 weeks until next paycheck. I don't eat out or order out as I cannot afford it. I work in assisted living and the onlything that is saving me right now is the fact that I don't have to use my car for getting back and forth to work. I live in the apartment behind the one I work in. I cannot afford health insurance and diffently cannot afford any money taken out of my paycheck for what is offered though the company I work for. I don't have a regular dr to go to and I hold off for as long as I can to go to a ready care place for treatment. I have had yeast infections and also bladder infections that should have been treated before I actually went in for that had to get a script for antibotics to clear it up. Only thing that saved me for the meds is a couple stores here offer certain free antibotics. But the bill for me to be looked at is huge. I just had no other choice. Everything has gone up in price except my paychecks. I would say I am in worse shape I was in 4 years ago. Plus the uncertanity of the economy the way it is just makes things worse.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

CrystalP said:


> This is a world where the govennment only cares about lining their own pockets and screwing us anyway they can. I don't beleive a word that comes out of any polititian's mouth. They say what they want us to hear to get voted in, then they screw us.
> Our kids are our future, and for a government to cut education funding is just plain WRONG!!


OHHHHH I soooooo agree with you!!!!!!! I have been saying this for years.


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## k2p3-knit on (May 1, 2012)

Yes. Definitely Yes. My modest 401K about vanished with the big financial crash that happened about a week before the last election. It has been restored. The whole country was so close to a Depression like the 1930's and I know finances have been difficult for a lot of people but we are so fortunate our economy didn't completely bottom out. The people in our government who were managing our national economy were dancing as fast as they could and yes, made some missteps, but I shudder realizing it could have been so much worse given the immense problems they inherited. 

The root of the problems happened over a number of years and there is no magic wand to fix our woes in an instant, impatient as we are. And to add to our burden, we are not isolated in this world. Our finances are linked with other countries and just when we were showing progress the global crunch happened. Now our recovery is linked with the financial recovery of other countries as well. It's not a pleasant scenario, very uncomfortable to be frank. But we need a reality check. It will take a while and it won't be easy. The Blame Game won't resolve the situation. 

The Baby Boomers are coming to retirement age. Weve followed their progress as schools added classrooms for them, colleges had an enrollment bulge, they entered the job market and products were marketed specifically to appeal to their wallets as they matured. We knew they would reach retirement age and be eligible for Medicare. But Regan raided the Social Security accounts they were paying into (and which should have been earning interest) and he used the money on the Iran-Contra mess. Every last cent. Clinton campaigned on the intention to put Social Security payments into a lock box to be kept safe for retirees. The oppositional Congress defeated that and continued to raid Social Security. Suddenly someone woke up and Social Security is underfunded! Arent the people we elect well-educated? Is playing politics more important than the well-being of all the citizens they are supposed to care for?

So were in a bad place now. A lot of the world is in a bad place. What do we do? And how? The answer isnt to cut education funding. We are counting on todays students to make tomorrow better for themselves and for us. Education has to become affordable to make that happen. Too many seniors are living on the edge now, barely making it even with assistance from food banks. If and when the proposed cuts to Social Security happen will there be barracks with cots for seniors or will we all be roaming the streets with pilfered shopping carts? The proposed cuts to Medicare will undoubtedly hasten the deaths of many seniors. To further remove entitlements Getting Government Off Of Peoples Backs was the Regan-era slogan used to remove patients from mental hospitals into society. Theyre roaming our streets, homeless. What do we do about deranged persons like the man who shot Congresswoman Gabby Giffords? The hospitals were closed and are gone. Do we house them in overcrowded jails and shuffle dangerous persons back into our communities? Is the answer the proposed still more cuts in food aid? In our communities there are children going to bed hungry. Is it right to divert the money into the bulging pockets of people who will never miss a meal? Where will the savings go? The Trickle Down theory was tried and didnt work. Why is Greed considered the new virtue? Did it begin with the Me Generation I want it all and the h___ with everyone else? Is preserving this the reason so many of our promising young people are sent to die in wars? 

Am I personally better off than four years ago? Yes, in many ways. Financially, a bit less with rising costs, but manageable. But the next four years could be scary.


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## Frandelia (May 24, 2011)

We are doing well because we saved for our retirement and paid our house off early. My husband was a high school teacher and retired before all the attacks on teachers started. Back then there was a good retirement plan for teachers before they became the scapegoats for education. I'm not sure if we could do the same if we were just starting out today. But to blame the president for the state of the economy, seems short-sighted. The president of the US doesn't control the economy, especially the world economy. Jobs have been lost to the global workforce. Who controls that? As long as it is profitable for large corporations to take jobs away from the US, they will. I would much rather have a president who cares about the have-nots. After all, isn't that what Jesus told us to do? "Feed my lambs."


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

I am glad that on your personal note that your life is better, but that certainly is to YOUR credit, something that YOU did, and cannot in any way reflect anything that the "government" did. 
We need more individual changes and credits, rather than government interference. There is way too much government in our lives.



Aran said:


> Yes, I am. Even though I have the same job, I've received a couple of pay raises. I just paid off my car, and currently have more money in the bank than I've ever had before.
> 
> On a more personal note, my life is WAY better than it was 4 years ago because at this time 4 years ago, I was struggling to accept my true self. I'm happy to report that I did & changed my life accordingly & life is much better.


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

NO. We worked so hard, and saved for many years, but our IRA in the last TWO/THREE years has gone way, way down, and it's not because we took it out. We had a house built that could have been paid for (meaning that our IRA covered it, but were advised to leave it). and NOW our IRA is about a fourth of what it was when we put it in.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

kiffer said:


> No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


kiffer

Sorry to tell you but your quote is out of context.
The President NEVER said that you did not build your business.
Please, re-read what he said.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

GardenGirl said:


> Absolutely no! We are NOT better off. Our standard of living has dropped because the cost of living has gone up. Also,we feel an obligation to help our adult children who have been affected by the awful economic conditions. We have had to make mortgage payments for one who lost his job and was out of work for more than a year. Others have needed help with rent and basic living expenses. The cost of gasoline alone is $4.15 per gallon for the 'cheap stuff' and that makes everything we buy and everything we do cost more. The money has to come from somewhere.
> 
> Our 'comfortable retirement' is not as comfortable as we planned. We'll be ok, but we are very worried about our children's and grand children's future.
> 
> P.S. I don't even like to think about the real estate values and how much we've "lost." The rental market never goes down, and with more people losing their homes the rental prices will continue to go up! We are hit either way!


I also do what I can for my kids. My daughter is a single mom of 4. The youngest 5 mo old the daddy is helpful and she is getting child support for him. He takes and spends time with the baby regularly. The daddy for the the other 3 is a real deadbeat and even though he gets the kids on his weekends he does nothing with htem and they do not want to go. Hates his girlfriend he is living with who by the way he left my daughter for 2 1/2 years ago and treats my daughter like shes the one that walked out on him. He is paying hardly nothing for child support and accuses her for making him pay it. So on my days off I have the kids and working doubles (16 hr shifts) and only a couple hours of sleep I get up and she brings in the kids at 6 am now that school is back in session. It isen't easy but the cost of day care here is way too expensive and she cannot afford it. Her Xmother in law takes the kids when I am working and we switch back and forth. I also do her laundry for her when I have the kids so she dosen't have to pay for the washers and dryers at a laundromat. It isen't easy nowaday.


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## Sammi (Nov 6, 2011)

I am retired, no raise in SS for 2 years, lots of what others have said is also my lament, BUT, I am healthy, I am not mentally ill, I can get around by myself, I have friends, I have so much to share with others in perhaps not wealth, but just general knowledge, I thank my stars that I can get out of bed in the mornings, and praise my God that it continues. I will not be greedy, and want to take my "wealth" with me, I will share what I have with others til I can't anymore, and when it is gone, then perhaps my time here will be over. Someone has to make a difference in our lives, and tho I don't profess to be the one to do all the changing, I sure can help in some small way.


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

He said, "If you have a business, you did not build that". EXACT quote!!!
go read it.



Ingried said:


> kiffer said:
> 
> 
> > No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............
> ...


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## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

Your reply is right on. I was forced to retire due to bad knees but I am doing well with my SS, retirement money & money from my IRA. I also lost money initially but, since, have made it all up. I definitely feel things are on the upswing & I think things will continue to improve unless the politicians start to mess with things like SS, Medicare, Healthcare, etc.


k2p3-knit on said:


> Yes. Definitely Yes. My modest 401K about vanished with the big financial crash that happened about a week before the last election. It has been restored. The whole country was so close to a Depression like the 1930's and I know finances have been difficult for a lot of people but we are so fortunate our economy didn't completely bottom out. The people in our government who were managing our national economy were dancing as fast as they could and yes, made some missteps, but I shudder realizing it could have been so much worse given the immense problems they inherited.
> 
> The root of the problems happened over a number of years and there is no magic wand to fix our woes in an instant, impatient as we are. And to add to our burden, we are not isolated in this world. Our finances are linked with other countries and just when we were showing progress the global crunch happened. Now our recovery is linked with the financial recovery of other countries as well. It's not a pleasant scenario, very uncomfortable to be frank. But we need a reality check. It will take a while and it won't be easy. The Blame Game won't resolve the situation.
> 
> ...


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## mrshandyfixit (Apr 25, 2011)

We are comfortable. But, better off, no. Our money earns very little interest. Our health insurance is astronomical. The prices of everything keep skyrocketing - especially fuel. Our utilities and taxes have increased as well. Our children and grandchildren are either unemployed, underemployed or taking pay cuts and are feeling stressed about losing their jobs completely. 
I am really hoping everyone gives this exact question serious consideration in the US election in November.


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## blavell (Mar 18, 2011)

Yes. At the end of the Bush Era all of my college educated nieces, nephews & grandchildren were without jobs. They all now have good paying jobs & are being helped by the Obama Plan paying off their college loans. While I agree that the price of everything has escalated do you really think that wouldn't have happened no matter who was in office? Many companies are taking advantage of the economy & raising prices whether they need to or not. Also, the cost of food has been effected by drought, fires, floods, etc. We have some challenges but I am optimistic about our future.


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## knottydoll (Aug 17, 2011)

No, because I am still overweight and unfit....who can we blame for that,I wonder! 
Yes, because after moving to Canada fron the U K 7 years ago, I still have a wonderful husband who loves me to little mint balls, 4 healthy happy children, one of whom is finding his way in the big wide world by himself. I am able to stay at home and foster any babies who need me. We are managing to pay all our bills,even though some may be late! Our home is just that, our home. No fancy renos going on but we have a roof over our heads and plywood under our feet. My chickens are free range and laying, even though we can't find the nests all the time!
My mum had a major health scare but with no lasting effects,(praise God) and my fractured humerus is finally healing after 13 weeks in a sling....oh and I have entered 10 things in our towns Fall Fair
I would say I am loving my life in Canada and will stay here forever and a day....God Willing.


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

Personally, I lost a great full time job because of the economy and now work only part-time, not enough income and no benefits... We are struggling to get by on about half the income we had before Obama.

As far as our country being better off... everywhere you go there are stores, restaurants, whole shopping centers and blocks of town, deserted and closed up. So many businesses are dead and gone now, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to realize we are way, way worse off than before Obama was elected. He will blame Bush, as usual, and say he needs another 4 years to "fix it"... the Big Lie. But he's done nothing but make decisions to hurt our small businesses and over-regulate them right out of existance. So many people have lost jobs. Kids coming out of college with huge loans can't find work. Now Obama is touring college campuses touting his great accomplishment to "make college more affordable". HOW? The kids he's talking to aren't stupid. They know college hasn't gotten any cheaper! 

Gas costs more than double now, which drove up our food prices so you can barely afford to eat... and millions more are now on government food stamps. In his first 4 years he's done nothing to make the economy stronger, because he doesn't want to! His goal is to get rid of the "private sector" entirely, drive out all private business, and have the government run everything and everyone's lives. He wants everyone dependant on the government for their existence, and that is not American! I hope enough people are fed up with this man and his cronies, to get rid of them by a huge majority in November. God help us if we don't...


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## marimom (Aug 27, 2011)

First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.
A man with one term in the Senate and no other meaningful work beforehand to speak of has no business being in the White House. A man who bows down to other country leaders has no business being in the White House. A person who gives the Queen of England an IPhone as a gift? Puleeze.
Let's face it, if you live in the USA things are going to get worse during the next 4 years with the present person still in office. 
Have all of you on Social Security looked to see what you are going to be paying in Medicare 2 years from now? Have you really read this outragious Health Care Bill? I wrote my Masters' Thesis on Ted Kennedy's Bill in the early 70's and have been following health care since then as I am a Gerontologist.
The only chance we have is to change Presidents. Period.


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## Jeanie L (Sep 27, 2011)

travelingal said:


> After reading all the "negatives" above, aren't we lucky to have SSI, Social Security and Medicare, not to mention the new Health Care? Outsourcing has caused a lot of us to lose our jobs, but things ARE getting better and our government is our safety net. Also note that those of us who lost money in the market are getting it back double now!


You are so right...


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## MPolaski (Mar 14, 2011)

marimom said:


> First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.
> A man with one term in the Senate and no other meaningful work beforehand to speak of has no business being in the White House. A man who bows down to other country leaders has no business being in the White House. A person who gives the Queen of England an IPhone as a gift? Puleeze.
> Let's face it, if you live in the USA things are going to get worse during the next 4 years with the present person still in office.
> Have all of you on Social Security looked to see what you are going to be paying in Medicare 2 years from now? Have you really read this outragious Health Care Bill? I wrote my Masters' Thesis on Ted Kennedy's Bill in the early 70's and have been following health care since then as I am a Gerontologist.
> The only chance we have is to change Presidents. Period.


Yep. I agree. I come from a country with socialized medicine. It sucks. I think the Founding Fathers would be shocked to see what a mess has been made of the country and the government in the past 200 years. I recently read Jefferson's first Inaugural Address and seeing the humility with which he took the office of President is very refreshing -- and not something seen modernly. I don't know if changing Presidents will help to fix the problem, but it certainly wouldn't hurt. It may be time for another revolution.


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## IncognitoDar (Feb 27, 2012)

smontero237 said:


> NO! Due to ecomomy my income was slashed almost 50%, I was on commission and both my company and the client "restructered", keeping more of the income I generated for themselves.
> 
> In one month my homeowner assn. increased from 250.00 to 500.00 for repairs. My impound account also increased 250.00 since they were not taking enough out for taxes. I was struggling to keep my home and this turned out to be the fatal blow.
> 
> ...


Sorry to hear of your troubles but happy that KP is a highlight for you. However hard your troubles are, everybody needs some light in their life. You're definitely not lazy ... injuries and afflictions affect everyone differently.


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

yeah, girl, like he promised to "fix it" before the election; even saying that if he didn't, he would be a one-term president.
I have to say that here in Texas we are booming (lots and lots of people moving here from all over, lots of construction, new houses, etc...) but it's because of PERSONAL ingenuity of builders, etc. willing to go out on a limb for themselves to build their own "life". There is no hotels, houses, etc. available in our part of Texas....everything full, and prices have skyrocketed in housing because they know they can "get it".
It seems to me that we could have a little more regulation in areas that really need it, instead of people telling mothers what they can feed their own children.



Sewbizgirl said:


> Personally, I lost a great full time job because of the economy and now work only part-time, not enough income and no benefits... We are struggling to get by on about half the income we had before Obama.
> 
> As far as our country being better off... everywhere you go there are stores, restaurants, whole shopping centers and blocks of town, deserted and closed up. So many businesses are dead and gone now, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to realize we are way, way worse off than before Obama was elected. He will blame Bush, as usual, and say he needs another 4 years to "fix it"... the Big Lie. But he's done nothing but make decisions to hurt our small businesses and over-regulate them right out of existance. So many people have lost jobs. Kids coming out of college with huge loans can't find work. Now Obama is touring college campuses touting his great accomplishment to "make college more affordable". HOW? The kids he's talking to aren't stupid. They know college hasn't gotten any cheaper!
> 
> Gas costs more than double now, which drove up our food prices so you can barely afford to eat... and millions more are now on government food stamps. In his first 4 years he's done nothing to make the economy stronger, because he doesn't want to! His goal is to get rid of the "private sector" entirely, drive out all private business, and have the government run everything and everyone's lives. He wants everyone dependant on the government for their existence, and that is not American! I hope enough people are fed up with this man and his cronies, to get rid of them by a huge majority in November. God help us if we don't...


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## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

I wish congress would STOP trying to repeal the Affordable Care Act and get on to the business of bringing jobs back to the US! My husband and I own a small business and want to deal within the parameters of reform, and be done with it. If certain members of congress weren't so determined to make Obama a one term president, then I believe his policies are worth implementing. He has the background to know what the 98% of us are going through.


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## funthreads623 (May 25, 2011)

well said.



marimom said:


> First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.
> A man with one term in the Senate and no other meaningful work beforehand to speak of has no business being in the White House. A man who bows down to other country leaders has no business being in the White House. A person who gives the Queen of England an IPhone as a gift? Puleeze.
> Let's face it, if you live in the USA things are going to get worse during the next 4 years with the present person still in office.
> Have all of you on Social Security looked to see what you are going to be paying in Medicare 2 years from now? Have you really read this outragious Health Care Bill? I wrote my Masters' Thesis on Ted Kennedy's Bill in the early 70's and have been following health care since then as I am a Gerontologist.
> The only chance we have is to change Presidents. Period.


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## kacey64 (Mar 23, 2011)

Republicans vs democrats, "bush left the mess for obama and its going to take him 4 more years to get it straightened out." One question, if this is true, then why are most of the countries in Europe in financial crisis? Why is Australia? The people in power have infiltrated governments in many countries and have taken control of finances. They have an agenda, Agenda 21. And it is global.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> plainjane8283 said:
> 
> 
> > Google President Obama's quote, "You did not build that," and read the entire quote. He was talking about all that goes into a successful business, the country's schools, roads, teachers, etc. that helped you along the way to building that business. He was referring to that, not to the business you built.
> ...


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

marimom said:


> First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.


 :thumbup: I couldn't agree more!
I've been working on the books since I was 14 years old. I have been in this job alone at this company for over 10 years. Although my pay has not reduced dollar wise, I want to note I have not had in increase in pay for 3 years. Notta, nothing. But my expense sure have gone up. Taxes, utilities, gas, food, and Health Insurance went through the roof! I'm the Accounting Manager for a small manufacturing company and I can tell you, there are times when I worry I'm going to need to go to the owner and tell him to lay people off from work to save money. Not enough business. So far we have been able to hang in, but barely. All the government programs are coming out of my pockets. The harder I work, the more they take.


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## Dominorip (Sep 8, 2011)

After reading all of the responses, I wonder whether the original question was meant to be a referendum on Obama's presidency. But how can one President be responsible for someone's father having a heart attack, or someone's depression, even their job loss which can happen in a good economy? Those of you who brought up the optimistic side of things: your good health, your ability to love and be with your loved ones have the right attitude. My circumstances are part good, part bad, like most people, but I recognize that we were saved from the brink of a downright DEPRESSION, the auto industry is alive, and my reproductive rights are being protected under this administration. This administration cares about women getting equal pay for equal work. Mitt didn't even know what the Lily Ledbetter Pay Act was when asked about it. (now you've got me started). I'm so glad the Republican convention is over because when I heard about the "peanut throwing" incident, I was so disgusted, I couldn't look at the faces of the people in the crowd. (if you don't know what happened let me know, and I'll tell you). In response to Sewbiz girl, you have the right to your opinion, and I am very sorry if you are suffering, but saying that Obama wants the government to take over all parts of our lives and make us dependent on the gov't is ridiculous hyperbole. You cannot give any examples of that especially Obamacare which wholly enriches private insurance companies.
Right wing media is promulgating the idea that Obama is un-American and you have bought right into it. That's the big lie. Anyway, I do hope your situation improves. Unless you are wealthy, it will not improve under a Romney administration. Their plans are the same as Bush's--and that's how we got into this mess. Sorry so long!


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
If you have a business you didn't build it
If you start a company with YOUR own money, give credit with your own money outlaid for the product your giving credit on worked 7 days a week to make it go with little or no pay. Who built the business?

I'm sure this will start another hornets nest but I would really like an answer.
I have been there done the above never used ANY government money and paid a great deal of taxes for it. We did build it with no help from anyone


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## mrshandyfixit (Apr 25, 2011)

Well said.


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## mrshandyfixit (Apr 25, 2011)

Dominorip said:


> After reading all of the responses, I wonder whether the original question was meant to be a referendum on Obama's presidency. But how can one President be responsible for someone's father having a heart attack, or someone's depression, even their job loss which can happen in a good economy? Those of you who brought up the optimistic side of things: your good health, your ability to love and be with your loved ones have the right attitude. My circumstances are part good, part bad, like most people, but I recognize that we were saved from the brink of a downright DEPRESSION, the auto industry is alive, and my reproductive rights are being protected under this administration. This administration cares about women getting equal pay for equal work. Mitt didn't even know what the Lily Ledbetter Pay Act was when asked about it. (now you've got me started). I'm so glad the Republican convention is over because when I heard about the "peanut throwing" incident, I was so disgusted, I couldn't look at the faces of the people in the crowd. (if you don't know what happened let me know, and I'll tell you). In response to Sewbiz girl, you have the right to your opinion, and I am very sorry if you are suffering, but saying that Obama wants the government to take over all parts of our lives and make us dependent on the gov't is ridiculous hyperbole. You cannot give any examples of that especially Obamacare which wholly enriches private insurance companies.
> Right wing media is promulgating the idea that Obama is un-American and you have bought right into it. That's the big lie. Anyway, I do hope your situation improves. Unless you are wealthy, it will not improve under a Romney administration. Their plans are the same as Bush's--and that's how we got into this mess. Sorry so long!


Well said.


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## CharleneB (Jun 5, 2011)

Yes, we are. I was working two jobs and decided to cut back to the part time job; then decided to retire. Have since gone back to working part time, not because I have to but because I wanted to. Work in a fabric store and love, love, love the discount.


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## dingo (Jun 20, 2011)

About the same.

The you did not build it remark was taken out of context. Obama said that every person and business depends on an electrical grid, highways, water delivery, etc. The businesses themselves did not build these things. The government, federal, state, and local, built them. It was meant to illustrate that we are dependent on each other to some degree;.


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## joand'5 (Aug 27, 2011)

No we are not better off...in fact, much the opposite.


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## Dakota Sun (May 25, 2011)

marimom said:


> First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.
> A man with one term in the Senate and no other meaningful work beforehand to speak of has no business being in the White House. A man who bows down to other country leaders has no business being in the White House. A person who gives the Queen of England an IPhone as a gift? Puleeze.
> Let's face it, if you live in the USA things are going to get worse during the next 4 years with the present person still in office.
> Have all of you on Social Security looked to see what you are going to be paying in Medicare 2 years from now? Have you really read this outragious Health Care Bill? I wrote my Masters' Thesis on Ted Kennedy's Bill in the early 70's and have been following health care since then as I am a Gerontologist.
> The only chance we have is to change Presidents. Period.


I agree with you 100%. You have hit the nail on the head. All Americans need to get out and vote in November for a new person to be in the White House. Write your Congressman, Senators, Rep's and etc and let them know you are not happy with the way our country is being ran. I write quite often to our government in our state and express to them just how I feel. Two of our States elected Reps and a Senator reply's back to me that they are fighting for the us on lowering the gas price, and bringing jobs back to America. In fact one Rep. has a call in every so often and we can talk with him and express our views. I Thank God for this man as he has helped us often with some problems we had .
Dakota Sun


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## dingo (Jun 20, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> marimom said:
> 
> 
> > First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government and, thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.
> ...


The constitution guarantes us all "the pursuit of happiness."
That is taken by most to mean helping those who need help.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Absolutely not. DH hasn't had a raise in years. I work in long term care here and everything is dictated by the state (what can be charged w d what we are reimbursed) so I have ever seen a pay raise. Have lost on 401s an it will take years to recoup. Now, with the new taxes that will go into effect I will lose most of my tax deductions and pay more for my healthcare. Oh, joy.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> StitchDesigner said:
> 
> 
> > No. Prices are escalating. We are on food stamps. We have not gotten a COLA raise on them in a year. We are supposed to get the card refilled tomorrow, but they're acting like they don't want to. Almost out of groceries. Do I want this guy back in the White House? NO!!!!!!!!!!!
> ...


Laurie; You should do some studying about how the US government works. The President has more than doubled those receiving food stamps; he had to as his policies are creating more who need them.

While Paul Ryan offered at least two budget which DID pass in the House of Representatives each time by a "Yea" vote by ALL the Republicans, a budget must be Passed and Approved by the Senate to become viable.

The Senate Democratic Leader, Harry Reid, refuses to allow a budget be brought forth for debate or a vote. Funny since he had a majority in the House, Senate and White House for more than 2 years. 
Finally, after 3 years will NO budget offered, debated or passed by the Senate, Obama offered a budget. The vote was recorded with 98 Senators "No" and a complete majority "No" from the House of Reps. Not ONE Senator and not ONE Congressman approved Obama's proposed budget INCLUDING not one Democratic member in either house.

So, yes, blame all the Democrats who will not offer or pass a budget. Then blame the Democratic leader who cannot lead to even get "one" vote of the budget he proposed by the members in his OWN party!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Frandelia said:


> We are doing well because we saved for our retirement and paid our house off early. My husband was a high school teacher and retired before all the attacks on teachers started. Back then there was a good retirement plan for teachers before they became the scapegoats for education. I'm not sure if we could do the same if we were just starting out today. But to blame the president for the state of the economy, seems short-sighted. The president of the US doesn't control the economy, especially the world economy. Jobs have been lost to the global workforce. Who controls that? As long as it is profitable for large corporations to take jobs away from the US, they will. I would much rather have a president who cares about the have-nots. After all, isn't that what Jesus told us to do? "Feed my lambs."


Jesus did not say for the goverment to feed us.


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## Miss Shari (Jan 31, 2012)

jheiens said:


> Actually we are somewhat. Four years ago, over 50% of our investments were lost with the stock market panic. Now we've regained almost all of it. So, yes, we're doing better than we were back then. And the COLA for the SS took care of the rise in the Medicare Part B.
> 
> So, again, we are better off. Does my 37 yo daughter have a job? No. Does she have any paying clients for her new business yet? No. Does she see the economy of this tri-county area moving in a positive direction, YES!! So we are trusting God, in His wisdom, to help us to see this through to a successful outcome.
> 
> ...


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Yes, my DH and I are definitely better off than we were four years ago.

Hazel


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

hgayle said:


> I seriously don't understand how anyone can be better off financially than they were four years ago. Prices have risen on almost ALL non-durable goods, housing prices have dropped, and I doubt that most people's income has risen at a pace to keep up with inflation. My kids are not better off even tho they all have good jobs. Neither my daughter or her husband have gotten pay raises for 3 years; my oldest son had to close 2 restaurants; and another son's yearly bonus was way down the last two years (he's also in the restaurant business). Why? Because of the poor economy!


----------
hgayle, You are absolutely correct! Anyone who denies the state of the economy and says they are better off than 4 years ago has no concept of reality.

The simply fact that the US is in recession says it all. Everyone has REceded. Went back - not forward!!!!!

No one pays less for utilities, fuel, food and receives more on investments, equity, etc.

If you consider your status as compared to 4 years ago and don't consider financial wealth then ask yourself if you suffer today knowing someone you know personally is worse off.

If you answer "yes" I personally know someone suffering because of circumstances in her life, than you, too, are worse off emotionally today as well.

Considering your health, if you have no more concern about your care and comfort than I guess you are no worse off than 4 years ago medically. Again, I wonder if anyone would deny they aren't concerned or worried for themselves or others. To deny differently is a cause of concern.

I always laugh to myself when people praise the govt who is the safety net for the fall. Who doesn't understand that the govt = you and you = the govt!!!! You catch yourself in the safety net by paying more taxes to break your or other's fall!

Simple concept: more are "falling" so your taxes must increase to catch more in the net.

Obama = more govt jobs paid by more of YOUR tax money = tax increases for less stuff = reduce your status

Romney = more private jobs paid by the CEO's money (those rich and successful guys) = tax cuts and more of YOUR own money in your pocket and improve your status


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

I am better off because 4 years ago, I was paying $1,022.00 a month for health care, and was looking for a better value at a lower rate. What we found was that because of "pre-existing conditions, (thyroid & blood pressure meds), we could not qualify to purchase insurance from a different carrier. The health insurance company only wants to insure 20 year olds with no problems, or you are out in the cold. Now we are paying $535.oo per month. That $500 extra per month let's us breath much easier ~ I can buy more yarn now!


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## chorbanxx (Mar 8, 2012)

Definitely NOT. For all the same reasons you listed.
Chorbanxx


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## Gundi2 (May 25, 2012)

LindaH said:


> The president did NOT say what that quote claims that he did. They chopped it up and spliced it to make it sound that way. If you really want to know what he said then please go here:
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/07/did-obama-say-if-youve-got-a-business-you-didnt-build-that/
> 
> By the way, we are better off than we were 4 years ago. There is a LOT left to do, as President Obama says, but I know that there is no way that any 1 man or woman could successfully fix that legacy that Bush left for the incoming president in 4 years!


You said what is on my Mind also.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> LindaH said:
> 
> 
> > The president did NOT say what that quote claims that he did. They chopped it up and spliced it to make it sound that way. If you really want to know what he said then please go here:
> ...


Actually, when you hear the entire quote, the context gets "worse" the longer the President speaks. There is no question what he meant and said. He has tried really hard to retract to no avail. Obama's staff is encouraging him to stick to his teleprompters so he doesn't have more "Joe the plumber" gaffs.


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## chorbanxx (Mar 8, 2012)

Definitely NOT, for the same reasons you lited , and a few more.
Annamatilda. 

chorbanxx


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## Barb R (Feb 19, 2011)

Question: Are you personally better off today than 4 years ago?
Personally - no - I lost my husband 4 months ago after a 7 year battle with cancer.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Frandelia said:


> We are doing well because we saved for our retirement and paid our house off early. My husband was a high school teacher and retired before all the attacks on teachers started. Back then there was a good retirement plan for teachers before they became the scapegoats for education. I'm not sure if we could do the same if we were just starting out today. But to blame the president for the state of the economy, seems short-sighted. The president of the US doesn't control the economy, especially the world economy. Jobs have been lost to the global workforce. Who controls that? As long as it is profitable for large corporations to take jobs away from the US, they will. I would much rather have a president who cares about the have-nots. After all, isn't that what Jesus told us to do? "Feed my lambs."


----------
I believe Jesus told us not to give our brother a fish but to teach our brother to fish so that he may provide for himself.


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## Janet.Sar (Jun 29, 2011)

I think I'm marginally better off these days - but only because I supplement my meagre state pension by selling my knitting!!!


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## Florida Sue (Feb 1, 2012)

NO For all of the above


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> plainjane8283 said:
> 
> 
> > Google President Obama's quote, "You did not build that," and read the entire quote. He was talking about all that goes into a successful business, the country's schools, roads, teachers, etc. that helped you along the way to building that business. He was referring to that, not to the business you built.
> ...


It's too bad he didn't make that clear himself. So much of what they say can be taken more than one way.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
> If you have a business you didn't build it
> If you start a company with YOUR own money, give credit with your own money outlaid for the product your giving credit on worked 7 days a week to make it go with little or no pay. Who built the business?
> 
> ...


-------
Nonnie You DID build your business-good for you! If you consider what the President said, if you are a carpenter and use wood to build a house, well, you didn't build a house, you had assistance from the govt.

If you are a surgeon and use any medical supplies, well, you didn't complete the surgery, you had assistance from the govt.

His comments are insulting and ridiculous. Every business owner pays lots of taxes for the roads, bridges, etc. that are used in the line of business - so EVERY business owner DID build his/her own business!

Remember "who" the govt IS - you!


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Yea Contry Bunpkins and Cherf
You are both so right dependence on the government is strangling the working people. Welfare should be limited to 2 or 3 years and in that time teach them a trade so they can better themselves
Relying on the government because your to lazy to work but can drive a new car on our tax dollars is insane


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## wisjean (Nov 13, 2011)

Yes, we have a roof over our head, food on the table, good health, ( including my 94 yr old parents). We're retired on SS, Medicare, and husbands pension. 
It's too bad that the only way the world has come to judge if you're successful or happy is by "all the things" you have. Happiness and success can be enjoying your family and friends, and being thankful for what you do have.


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

Thank God my husband saw the "writing on the wall". He worked very hard and paid off our house before he retired. We are still having a hard time making ends meet. I would love to buy a new (used) car, but who can afford it.
There are so many people out of work. its a shame.
There use to be a saying "If you can't find a job in Chicago, you can't find a job anywhere. Well my grandson just graduated college and he can't find a job.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

One of the ways that I'm not better off is in my feelings about our country. I see the ideals of "rugged individualism" and "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" being eroded. I see young people who can't find work and people who have lost their jobs and their homes and their hopes. Then I see others who feel the government should provide for them. I see people who don't love their country, who find fault everywhere. I see people who don't remember or no longer admire John Kennedy's famous statement, "Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country."I see a citizenry divided by mutual hatred instead of united by mutual respect. It's sad. My mother got choked up every time she heard The National Anthem. We are fighting for the life of patriotism and idealism. Hard and with the outcome uncertain. 
I'm so happy to be on this forum with people from my country and other countries who respect and admire and support one another. I appreciate you.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Thank you Cherf.
We paid tons of personal and company taxes every year to use the roads, ect. I am proud of the work ethics we taught our daughters who both have masters degrees that we paid for without government assistance
Americans built and die for this country without asking anything but RESPECT from others
Unfortunately the respect from Washington is $16 trillion dollars of debt. Over double what this president inherited from every president in history


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## Johna (May 7, 2012)

I forgot to say: My car is 15 years old. I guess I will ride a bicycle to town to buy groceries, when my car finally dies.


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## kitty boy's mom (Dec 16, 2011)

Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.


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## kitty boy's mom (Dec 16, 2011)

Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
> ...


Exactly! They say Obama was talking about roads, etc. Well, sure - my father and his customers used the roads. So did the deadbeats and the criminals. So what's the point? He used the roads to add something good to the economy and the country. 
No - Obama wants to say that you had help building it and you should be required to share what you got out of it. Makes sense? Not to me. You should not be required to be charitable; that's not being charitable. You give of your own free will out of the goodness of your heart, not because it's required.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

wisjean said:


> Yes, we have a roof over our head, food on the table, good health, ( including my 94 yr old parents). We're retired on SS, Medicare, and husbands pension.
> It's too bad that the only way the world has come to judge if you're successful or happy is by "all the things" you have. Happiness and success can be enjoying your family and friends, and being thankful for what you do have.


You are so right! There are some things that money can't buy.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Yes, Thank God! We have always tried to live below our means and this economic crunch has made us even more frugal and resourceful. We always look for ways to reuse and recycle.  Fortunately we both have stable jobs and even though we haven't received a raise, but we haven't lost ground either. The President cannot be held responsible for the burden inherited by the previous administration's over spending and poor management. Recovery will take time, the problem was not created over night. I am very appreciative that as a family, we are on solid ground, and I pray for all those who have a difficult struggle ahead. I believe it would be especially cruel to burden the middle and lower income families with higher taxes, when the top 1% have reaped so many economic benefits in the recent past.


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## mimsey (Apr 10, 2011)

Income wise I am worse off now then I have been as my disability has forced me to give up employment but ... on the plus side ... I no longer have any long commutes or overnighters to attend meetings, I no longer have to make sure that I have at least one presentable outfit for official engagements, I no longer have to pay for someone to walk my dog, during the day while I am at work. So financially, I am not much worse off.

My children are all doing well, my grandchildren are all doing well, my cat is purring on the bookcase next to me, my dog is chasing rabbits in her sleep by the side of my chair, the sun is shining, I am still breathing ...

I'm not exactly where I planned to be but where I am is good enough. I'm happy.


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

Much better for my Husband & I. We sold our 3-family in a short sale, because Bank of America wouldn't help us.

Last June, we purchased a Mobile Home. Had a lot of repairs that were done and moved in July 3rd. We don't owe anyone anything, now, meaning we don't have a mortgage. It's a peaceful situation for me. No tenants to deal with. In 12 years, we only have had 2 sets that were wonderful.

I'm personally better off for joining KP and having a lot of friends.

Ask that question, though, in 5 years, when my Husband retires. Who knows where we are going to be, financially, and how much things are going to cost.

Great question.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Exactly! They say Obama was talking about roads, etc. Well, sure - my father and his customers used the roads. So did the deadbeats and the criminals. So what's the point? He used the roads to add something good to the economy and the country.


bonbf3: I don't think Obama uses the roads in his motorcade to get around; he uses his wings doesn't he? I think that is the point, we all need to be more like him!


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

kitty boy's mom said:


> Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.


My Husband said the exact same thing!!!


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## SDKATE57 (Feb 9, 2011)

I am 150% better off than 4 years ago. We don't have as many troops on the ground and that's a good thing. I get the feeling that because this is an election year, the question is being asked to show the current administration hasn''t done their job. I ask that you consider who made the mess in the first place, and remember that not one part of the gov't can fix everything. Congress didn't work together to get us out of any messes.
It's not just the US that is in trouble major countries all over the world are in an economic crunch. We really need to step back and see what we can do to help ourselves, to make work what we have, and not point fingers at each other.....but then this is getting way too political.


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## susannahp (Nov 7, 2011)

The Canadian gov gives pensions to everyone at age 65 , for those of us who have worked we also get Canada pension , like I said everyone is entitled to their pension at 65 and its a set amount, we also get a supplement to help with increases in utilities and such and our provincial gov gives us help with utilities ...we also have universal health and of course when you reach 65 prescriptions are almost free....


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

plainjane8283 said:


> I am better off because 4 years ago, I was paying $1,022.00 a month for health care, and was looking for a better value at a lower rate. What we found was that because of "pre-existing conditions, (thyroid & blood pressure meds), we could not qualify to purchase insurance from a different carrier. The health insurance company only wants to insure 20 year olds with no problems, or you are out in the cold. Now we are paying $535.oo per month. That $500 extra per month let's us breath much easier ~ I can buy more yarn now!


Yes, yarn is a very important staple!!!


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

Barb R said:


> Question: Are you personally better off today than 4 years ago?
> Personally - no - I lost my husband 4 months ago after a 7 year battle with cancer.


I'm so sorry. We are losing a lot of our friends due to Cancer.


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> LaurieJanesplace said:
> 
> 
> > plainjane8283 said:
> ...


He probably took credit for the US winning the Olympics, too!!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

kiffer said:


> No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


You must be living in a vacume if you don't know that that statement was taken out of context. He was talking about how we all need help and must work together. You had teachers and family that helped you get to where your are so you can start and run a business. If you have a business you need roads built and maintained to that business. You need electricity and I could go on and on. No you can not do things alone. Also a lot of businesses receive government grants and help to get started. The one gentleman that was on an ad on tv, all outraged about that statement did in fact get a huge government grant when he started his business. That ad had to be taken off, other than that the republicans know that statement was taken out of context but just continue with the lie.


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## MPolaski (Mar 14, 2011)

[/quote] He probably took credit for the US winning the Olympics, too!![/quote]

Yep -- the athletes certainly didn't manage to do that on their own.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

5rhode said:


> FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...


Not true. Obama has taken more time in his 3.5 years than Bush took in his 8 year term. Also, when Bush, along with Congress (Democratic I might add) sent our US military in harm's way; BUSH refused and did not play golf again out of respect for the troops.

Obama, on the other hand, refused to visit wounded soldiers at the support hospital in Germany where US soldiers first go when wounded before being flown to the US. Why? Because the media isn't allowed to photograph inside the hospital. Obama planned to visit the troops for a photo opp during his travels in Europe. When O learned "no cameras" Obama didn't visit the troops but played basketball (without the cameras on) instead.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly! They say Obama was talking about roads, etc. Well, sure - my father and his customers used the roads. So did the deadbeats and the criminals. So what's the point? He used the roads to add something good to the economy and the country.
> ...


You're right. He doesn't need that nasty electricity either. His halo provides all the light he needs.


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## senia (Dec 11, 2011)

Yes we are OK.4 years older, some added medical problems as a result, both tetired, increases in pensions, family is fine, one daughter didn't have a job for 5 years is now again working in the home mortgage business, her husband who lost his job before her got another better job nefore her, one daughter and husband who are employed by Arlington Bounty/VA received pay increases for the first time in 2 years,one daughter retired fro her dance studio business, husband burily hapily with his company, they are happy empty nesters with 2 children in college, all our family is happy now that scholl hes begun in Northern Virginia.
I see 2 of them less but they are loving school, all 6 of them.
I pray for those with difficulties,it isn't always easy for us, but we Thank God for our many blessings.


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## Barb R (Feb 19, 2011)

Amen - so very true!



wisjean said:


> Yes, we have a roof over our head, food on the table, good health, ( including my 94 yr old parents). We're retired on SS, Medicare, and husbands pension.
> It's too bad that the only way the world has come to judge if you're successful or happy is by "all the things" you have. Happiness and success can be enjoying your family and friends, and being thankful for what you do have.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

The so called help we received is paid for by the taxes that we paid. They were enormous


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

susannahp said:


> The Canadian gov gives pensions to everyone at age 65 , for those of us who have worked we also get Canada pension , like I said everyone is entitled to their pension at 65 and its a set amount, we also get a supplement to help with increases in utilities and such and our provincial gov gives us help with utilities ...we also have universal health and of course when you reach 65 prescriptions are almost free....


Please tell us what you pay in incomes, real estate, sales, value taxes?


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## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

smontero237 said:


> NO! Due to ecomomy my income was slashed almost 50%, I was on commission and both my company and the client "restructered", keeping more of the income I generated for themselves.
> 
> In one month my homeowner assn. increased from 250.00 to 500.00 for repairs. My impound account also increased 250.00 since they were not taking enough out for taxes. I was struggling to keep my home and this turned out to be the fatal blow.
> 
> ...


Wait until they are in the same boat. That's terrible.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

KEgan said:


> kitty boy's mom said:
> 
> 
> > Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.
> ...


Yes, and that's a disgrace.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

5rhode said:


> FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...


I've never heard that before.


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

I am flabberghasted that there are so many people parrotting the false (President Obama) 'you didn't build that' quote. There has to be something wrong with the media outlet (and the political party) which would perpetuate false information when clearly there is tape which can be pulled up as to what he said. For those people, I would suggest viewing more than this one "news" outlet. What is wrong with the truth these days, even if it doesn't fit your agenda? Thank you KPers for your respectful, insightful, sometimes heartbreaking, comments. You are classy people!! May God bless you.


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## trimic (Aug 20, 2012)

Four years ago, the annuity rate was 4.35% It is now, as of Sept 1, 1.75%. I could have started my annuity payments last March, but at these rates, I can't afford to. I don't think I am better off.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

kitty boy's mom said:


> Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.


Or his wife Michelle on some talk show. I have never known a presidents wife being so open and on tv so much witht he talk shows as her. What is with that? I know she is a wonderful person and she has done alot for diet and excersise. But other presidents wifes have done alot of good also but were not on every talk show day and late night shows. It is nothing to see her on tv almost everyday and that dosent include the news.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> I am flabberghasted that there are so many people parrotting the false (President Obama) 'you didn't build that' quote. There has to be something wrong with the media outlet (and the political party) which would perpetuate false information when clearly there is tape which can be pulled up as to what he said. For those people, I would suggest viewing more than this one "news" outlet. What is wrong with the truth these days, even if it doesn't fit your agenda? Thank you KPers for your respectful, insightful, sometimes heartbreaking, comments. You are classy people!! May God bless you.


It is very easy to hear Obama's quote for yourself regardless of the news channel or medium you watch. The tape doesn't lie and the words, meaning, context and quote are all the same. Simplified: If you have a business, you didn't build that. You had help along the way (meaning the govt).

Let me say again, the govt = me! 
Translation I Built my business!

I paid for my business, the funding for my bus, my education, the road and bridges I traveled on, the merchandise, the set-up, the utilities, the employees, the insurance and on and on. I had/have no assistance from the govt other than the used portion I was required to pay to MY govt.

I paid more in taxes than a person without a business. I paid for the trust for my family so that the govt doesn't take more taxes from my estate which would be taxed for the third time.

So, yes, Obama, I DID build my business which I pay dearly to keep you out of!


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

KEgan said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > LaurieJanesplace said:
> ...


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

George W. Bush is today making his final visit to Camp David as president. 

He will likely miss the place: According to CBS News White House Correspondent Mark Knoller, today's trip marks Mr. Bush's 149th visit to the presidential retreat. The planned three-day stay, during which the president is being joined by family and former and current aides, will bring his total time spent at Camp David to all or part of 487 days.

Yes, that's 487 days. And Camp David is not even where the president has spent the most time when not at the White House: Knoller reports that Mr. Bush has made 77 visits to his ranch in Crawford during his presidency, and spent all or part of 490 days there.!! 977 Days in these 2 places!!


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Cherf said:


> 5rhode said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...
> ...


There has been criticism of the president's vacation at this time. But how does the number of vacation days the president has spent compare to his predecessors? CBS Radio's Mark Knoller has kept track of presidential vacations for years and supplied the data.

So far, President Obama has taken 61 vacation days after 31 months in office. At this point in their presidencies, George W. Bush had spent 180 days at his ranch where his staff often joined him for meetings. And Ronald Reagan had taken 112 vacation days at his ranch.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

KEgan said:


> He probably took credit for the US winning the Olympics, too!!


------
If not for Romney, there would be no Olympics.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Cherf said:


> 5rhode said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...
> ...


During 2 terms as President, Bush spent all or of part of 487 days at Camp David, on retreats and made 77 trips to his Crawford Ranch, in Texas, where he spent all or part of 490 days, on his Ranch. 
The total number of days of vacation or retreat President Bush took, while in office over a period of 8 years was 977 days, or 32% of his total time in office, was spent on vacations or retreats.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Nope. A lot of our investments went belly-up over the past four years and if any of them recover, it will not be at the value with which we entered. But we are still okay because DH has a good pension and some investments still intact. But am having to help DD and grandkids more, through no fault of their own. They work hard but its expensive living here.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

5rhode said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > 5rhode said:
> ...


That equals 2 and 2/3 years of vacation in 2 terms - I wish I had those benefits!


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Being at his ranch either one, with their staff would not be considered a vacation if you ask me.
Extravagant trips to Hawaii would be. Taking seventy five people on vacation on my dollar would also be considered extravagant


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Definitely not!!! everything has increased in price just groceries is $25 per week more I will not even begin on Gas
every service we use Heat/Ac have increased their charge and added a gas charge on as well--Electric rates are up RE tax is up Supp Health ins Is up Road inspection car check is up Everything except SS is increased HELP
Please when you go to the polls in Nov remember what all the sweet talk got you last time do not be fooled this time Think very carefully the choice will be up to you


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

5rhode said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > 5rhode said:
> ...


-------
As of two weeks ago, Obama played 180 games of golf on our dime. So let's compare 180 days in 3.6 years (Obama not working) to 180 days in 8 years (Bush on working vacation). Since Obama can't be in two places at once, no work on those days he golfs. I haven't mentioned all the days O is campaigning [actually he never stopped] so not working, hosting parties at the WH or partying with his buddies, hoops play, etc.

Why don't you post all the stats rather than only those that suit your case? And let's make sure the stats are provided by a bi-partisan medium.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> Being at his ranch either one, with their staff would not be considered a vacation if you ask me.
> Extravagant trips to Hawaii would be. Taking seventy five people on vacation on my dollar would also be considered extravagant


Nonnie, it's apples and oranges - you can't dispute concrete numbers regardless of how you feel personally. A vacation or retreat regardless of location is by definition, time away. Fair is fair.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

5rhode said:


> Nonnie, it's apples and oranges - you can't dispute concrete numbers regardless of how you feel personally. A vacation or retreat regardless of location is by definition, time away. Fair is fair.


Fair is fair. Let's count all the days O was in Hollywood fundraising, hosting at the WH, campaigning, vacationing, Europe, golfing, spending time working with lawyers to bury his records, all his visit to Letterman, Leno, The View, etc. to get an accurate comparison.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff. 

It's impossible to conduct the country's business while you're on the golf course or basketball court.


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## sibergirl (May 4, 2011)

Wake up every day with a smile. Show your love to your family members. Live within your means and sock a few dollars away whenever you can. Do a kind deed for someone at least once a day. Count your blessings and don't worry about the last four years or the next four. Just take each day and make the most of it!


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

sam0767 said:


> KEgan said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff.
> 
> It's impossible to conduct the country's business while you're on the golf course or basketball court.


He is more like a movie star than a president.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> 5rhode said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...
> ...


That's been debunked several times. Those that stated that were including Bush's Camp David visits, which were anything but vacations.


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## retirednelda (May 8, 2012)

Financially, absolutely NO! 401 K going down tubes quickly trying to help our kids and grandkids by buying them food, daughter makes $6 too much to qualify for f/stamps so we are the stopgap.. and we cannot sell anything we have around here because no one else in this area seems to have money to buy or good paying jobs. the whole area is worse off , even the local flea market is suffering.... but happiness, I am thankful we have medical insurance as we are both on disabilityl and we have quality time at home.


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## JoanValJoan (Aug 12, 2011)

marylo12 said:


> Dsynr said:
> 
> 
> > I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense.
> ...


Ditto!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff.
> 
> It's impossible to conduct the country's business while you're on the golf course or basketball court.


Also, WHEN Mitt Romney is president, since he took no paycheck for his work during the Olympics and didn't take pay when he was governor of Massachusetts, I speculate that he'll also not take a salary for being in the White House thus the tax payer won't be footing the bill for his outrageous "vacations" to Hawaii, Spain and Mexico.


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## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

If you listened to his speech, that was taken out of context (imagine that), or even check snopes.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

jzzyjacque said:


> If you listened to his speech, that was taken out of context (imagine that), or even check snopes.


No, it was NOT taken out of context. He was saying exactly what he meant. That's what happens when he speaks "off the cuff"......we see his true agenda every time he strays from what's been written for him on the teleprompter.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff.
> 
> It's impossible to conduct the country's business while you're on the golf course or basketball court.


Bydie

You might be surprised how much business is conducted on a golf course. One reason female upper level executives had trouble getting into the CEO positions is because they were excluded from golf foursomes. Many business deals are negotiated on the links. And Presidents from at least Eisenhower have conducted international negotiations on the links.
With smart phones and WiFi, many business professional conduct business while on the golf course and between their turn to hit their golf balls.


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## mkjfrj (Apr 2, 2011)

No I'm not; and I find that very sad. When I retired 5 years ago everything looked rosy and we thought we were in good shape only to have so many things go wrong, I don't know where to begin. Life is life and I guess we just have to adjust as we go along. I will say, I never ever should have quit work - never.


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## debch (Apr 18, 2011)

NO, definitely not better off than 4 years ago. We are both retired and living on a fixed income. That is ok - we can deal with it as we do not need that much. However we have our oldest son (a police officer who doesn't get paid that much) and his 3 children having to live with us to make ends meet. Expenses for those still raising a family are quite high. I feel the middle class has left....it's either the rich, or the poor.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Bydie said:


> It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff.
> 
> It's impossible to conduct the country's business while you're on the golf course or basketball court.


I'm sure it is as easy to reach the president on a golf course or basketball court as it is to contact him while clearing bush on his ranch or on a retreat at Camp David. The point was time spent away from office - the people of this country bear the burden of cost for the president and his staff no matter where they travel - this goes along with lodging and security. Governing this country is a very difficult job, if you doubt that look at pictures of presidents when they are elected in comparison to when they leave office - but 2 2/3 years away from office in an 8 year time period on vacation or retreat is excessive.


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## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

We are all differant and wouldn't it be dull if we weren't. I heard that speech and that is not what I heard at all, but that was my ears.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

JoanValJoan said:


> marylo12 said:
> 
> 
> > Dsynr said:
> ...


Exactly! Thank you for the clarity!


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

jzzyjacque said:


> If you listened to his speech, that was taken out of context (imagine that), or even check snopes.


Nothing was taken out of context. O said what he meant and meant what he said.
For an logical, explanation consider this article;

http://tinyurl.com/94xz8b7


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

It the $'s involved and that is a fact
Camp David is only called a retreat 
By definition a vacation to most responsible people is time by your self not with staff, secret service everywhere camp David has always been a smaller White House not a vacation spot


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

mojave said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > It's one thing to be at Camp David or Crawford where the president was in an office with a staff.
> ...


Come now....let's be real. My sons all play sports....whether it's golf or basketball or tiddly winks, and no matter the technology, one cannot be effective in either with the distractions of those environments. I believe we'd all prefer he conducted the country's business in the halls of Congress. THAT'S why he got the job in the first place.


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## tulliver (Jun 5, 2012)

Here in the UK the Save the children charity, normally working for third world countries, has announced today that British children are at risk from poverty. Here in Yorkshire and Humberside they say a third are at risk and in Lincolnshire it is a quarter of children at risk. They say the majority have at least one parent working so we know it is not families on benefit. The economic woes seem to be all over.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

When all your tax relief expires in January because of this president and his cronies you will sing another tune marylo and 5 rhode
The housing crises started under Clinton. Bush inherited it. Go back and watch the tapes. Fannie Ma and Freddie Mack were warned and warned and warned hut Maxine Waters and the ret blew them off
Bush didnot cause all our problems. He inherited a ton including 9-11. Clinton was offered Bin Laden twice and refused the offer but that's ok because he was a Demorat


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## kittnitter (Dec 1, 2011)

No. Long for pay check as SS is less and less due to raises in medicare and supplemental insurance. Also prices of everything is
going higher and higher, especially gas. House worth less.


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## jennifer1954 (Nov 8, 2011)

Actually, yes. Better off because my house is paid off and I am still working.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Bydie said:


> mojave said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Are your sons the heads of state? If previous posts hold true the location of the president (i.e. Camp David or Crawford) does not necessarily change his ability to work....


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## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

Something that many here may not be aware of is the Bush-era tax cuts. It would be interesting to know how much tax revenue has been lost as a result. Just as an example, if someone dies in 2012 leaving an estate valued at $5,000,000, no federal estate tax will be payable from the estate! The beneficiary(ies) receive the entire inheritance tax free. Even if the value of the estate exceeds $5,120,000 (the federal exemption) in 2012, there are so many deductions and credits that any tax may be eliminated, of course depending on the value of the estate and amount of the deductions/credits.

If the death tax is not renewed or extended for 2013, the exemption will be reduced from $5,000,000 to $1,000,000 with a tax rate increase from 35% to 55%. No matter whether Obama or Romney is elected this year, I am quite sure that the tax cuts and exemptions will be extended. It will be interesting to see what happens in Congress, because Romney wants a full repeal, which should not be a surprise to anyone.

It would be interesting to know how much the reduced revenue has contributed to the failing economy. I'm fairly certain that those who may have inherited some of the millions, maybe even reduced by some federal tax, are probably all still doing very well.

Do not get the federal estate tax confused with state inheritance tax. Some states have eliminated inheritance tax and some are phasing it out. State inheritance tax exemptions are much lower than federal exemptions and not the subject of my comments here.


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## tatesgirl (Mar 27, 2011)

Most of what's been submitted seems to be just guesswork and/or how a person "feels."

I think if a person wants to know whether they're better off, he/she should figure out his/her net worth and if they had figured it 4 years ago they'd see its either higher or lower.

That's why its a good idea to figure your net worth every year.


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## 5rhode (Jun 21, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> When all your tax relief expires in January because of this president and his cronies you will sing another tune marylo and 5 rhode
> The housing crises started under Clinton. Bush inherited it. Go back and watch the tapes. Fannie Ma and Freddie Mack were warned and warned and warned hut Maxine Waters and the ret blew them off
> Bush didnot cause all our problems. He inherited a ton including 9-11. Clinton was offered Bin Laden twice and refused the offer but that's ok because he was a Demorat


Thank you for your concern for my well being. The housing crisis truly started with Bush's deregulation of the banks. Businesses tend to be more honest when they are forced to be transparent. Bush inherited a budget surplus, which was quickly depleted and continued to spend to excess. 
From Politifact:
"The day the Bush administration took over from President Bill Clinton in 2001, America enjoyed a $236 billion budget surplus -- with a projected 10-year surplus of $5.6 trillion," Axelrod wrote. "When the Bush administration left office, it handed President Obama a $1.3 trillion deficit -- and projected shortfalls of $8 trillion for the next decade."


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

funthreads623 said:


> He said, "If you have a business, you did not build that". EXACT QUOTE
> 
> Read what "out of context" means.


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## ggclaudia (Jun 8, 2011)

No we are not! Our Medical insurance has gone up $200 a month, our RX payments have quadrupled. My husband used to get Cost of living raise every year which was usually more that the actual COL. He hasn't had one in the last 3-4 years, the cost of diesel has gone up $3-$4 a gal., gas has gone up $2 a gal. and groceries are getting so expensive. It makes it hard to do a lot of the things we used to do.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
> If you have a business you didn't build it
> If you start a company with YOUR own money, give credit with your own money outlaid for the product your giving credit on worked 7 days a week to make it go with little or no pay. Who built the business?
> 
> ...


Well, you had teachers, friends and family for support. Yes you pay taxes, but if those taxes didn't maintain roads no one could get to your business. You need electricity and someone to maintain it. Of course you pay an electric bill, but without it could you run your business? The building your business is in, did you build it with your own hands? Did you go out and make the bricks yourself? Did you personally manufacture the drywall or did you buy it from someone else who made it? That is what he was talking about, the fact that we all work together. You have something to sell and I have something to sell. We help each other.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Ok inheritance tax. If you work in the business along side your parent and put in as many hours and sacrifice as your parent. Have paid taxes for years on said business what part is the government intitled to?
Farms and businesses have been lost for years because of this. My husband worked in the business with his father from the time he was 17, I worked to cloth my children and put food on the table because every extra penny went back into the business
As far as I'm concerned it is not the freeloaders of this country that are entitled to our hard work.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
> ...


I had my own small business for 20 years. There were nights when I was so exhausted, I wasn't able to drive the 2 miles home, so I slept on a cot in the band-aid room. There was no one from the goverment there to fluff my pillow or bring me a blankie.

I paid enormous taxes, my utilities, phone bills and internet access were much higher for the business than for home and I had "the government" constantly interfering with my decisions. Money that could have gone to give raises to loyal employees had to go instead to make sure I was "in compliance" with some of the stupidest, assinine rules you've ever heard of.....imposed by "the government". I built it, inspite of "the government", not because of it.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> When all your tax relief expires in January because of this president and his cronies you will sing another tune marylo and 5 rhode
> The housing crises started under Clinton. Bush inherited it. Go back and watch the tapes. Fannie Ma and Freddie Mack were warned and warned and warned hut Maxine Waters and the ret blew them off
> Bush didnot cause all our problems. He inherited a ton including 9-11. Clinton was offered Bin Laden twice and refused the offer but that's ok because he was a Demorat


Nonnie - yes! Let's not forgot our Dem buddies Barney Frank and Chis Dodd - those are really the two who collapsed and began the housing and Wall Street disasters. BTW: Not one, Fannie or Freddie or Wall Street Dem was fined or fired for their actions but lots were rewarded or praised.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

The war was not a choice but a necessity that caused the deficit
Yesterday it came out that Senator Obama brought a lawsuit against the motgage companies that forced them to loan money to unqualified people who have since lost their homes and want that changed
$8trillion over ten years. Obama has doubled that amount in less then 4 years. You might not care if your grandchildren have to pay for his stupidity but I sure as hell do


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

jennifer1954 said:


> Actually, yes. Better off because my house is paid off and I am still working.


Is your house worth more or less? Do you spend more or less for your mandatory exps? Is your income more or less or the same? The question is not what did you do to help yourself, the question is are you better off; only to be answered by a comparative.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Bydie said:


> mojave said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Please do not presume to speak for me. If President Obama and the Honorable Mr. John Boehner can work out a national budget or tax agreement, which does not penalize the middle class, while playing golf - Hurrah!!


----------



## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

NO and prices just keep going up! Seems no end in sight.

Wish SS would follow gas prices... up every week!!

Good thing I still have yarn.

Linda


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> Something that many here may not be aware of is the Bush-era tax cuts. It would be interesting to know how much tax revenue has been lost as a result. Just as an example, if someone dies in 2012 leaving an estate valued at $5,000,000, no federal estate tax will be payable from the estate! The beneficiary(ies) receive the entire inheritance tax free. Even if the value of the estate exceeds $5,120,000 (the federal exemption) in 2012, there are so many deductions and credits that any tax may be eliminated, of course depending on the value of the estate and amount of the deductions/credits.
> 
> If the death tax is not renewed or extended for 2013, the exemption will be reduced from $5,000,000 to $1,000,000 with a tax rate increase from 35% to 55%. No matter whether Obama or Romney is elected this year, I am quite sure that the tax cuts and exemptions will be extended. It will be interesting to see what happens in Congress, because Romney wants a full repeal, which should not be a surprise to anyone.
> 
> ...


-------
There are so many inaccurate statements in your paragraph I'll ignore it.

If you want answers to your questions study economics. History proves that when taxes are lowered more businesses employ folks and consequently more revenue flows to the govt.
Simply concept proven again and again.


----------



## Janet Odell (Jul 9, 2011)

Yes, things are a lot better than a few years ago. Our investments have come back to where they were...we did not lose everything as my great grandparents and grandparents did during the great depression. I have heard the stories...children moved in with parents and 70 year old people worked hard just to get by...not to mention the Dust Bowl and all the other aspects of that time. Our government had to make cuts, but it also saved a lot. We have a lot to be thankful for. Take a look at what it was. I know people are hurting, but it could be a whole lot worse.


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

It was said last night that the only thing we all have in common is the government. How pitiful is that? That comment dehumanizes each one of us.

For me, I am so happy to have in common, all knitters on Knitting Paradise!

My empty chair is on the front lawn.

I hate to see us get into politics, but it seems that we all pretty much think alike on the subject and it is so important.


----------



## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

I dare say that Clinton would have been criticized for executing Bin Laden because that was BEFORE 9/11. Two attempts were made that failed and Clinton was ridiculed for the failures--what was it a pill factory, a baby formula factory? (I hesitate to use failure because it was the actual military action and intelligence that failed, and I do not want to criticize our brave military.) Most people in the US did not even know who Bin Laden was! If anyone wants to criticize, maybe Bush should have made Bin Laden his number one focus after he took office in January before 9/11. No one, not Bush or Clinton, knew what Bin Laden was planning. There was a failure in communication between a couple of intelligence offices in August before 9/11 that might have made a difference in the result. Remember . . . hindsight is 20/20.

The world should be thankful that Bin Laden is no more. It should not matter who did it. Our brave military under the order of Obama are responsible and very fortunate for the successful outcome. If the action had failed, Obama would have been criticized and ridiculed just as Carter was when the attempt was made to save the hostages and the helicopter crashed. Our concern now should be who will replace Bin Laden and are we doing all we can to prevent another catastrophic event such as 9/11.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Are your sons the heads of state? >

No! Or you can be darn sure they wouldn't be wasting their time playing games when this country is in the disastrous state that it's in. They'd have "the wrath of Mother" down on their heads. :lol:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > When all your tax relief expires in January because of this president and his cronies you will sing another tune marylo and 5 rhode
> ...


Many of them are now working for Obama....can you say Geitner?


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

mojave said:


> Please do not presume to speak for me. If President Obama and the Honorable Mr. John Boehner can work out a national budget or tax agreement, which does not penalize the middle class, while playing golf - Hurrah!!


-------
Since Boehner's house passed two budgets with a complete Republican majority and Obama couldn't get a single vote by any Democrat in either house I suggest Harry Reid be invited as the third of the golf trio.

ONLY the Senate Majority Leader can get a budget on the table to be passed. Harry hasn't done a budget for over 3 years, why believe he'll do one now! Harry KNOWS he can't get the Dems (his party) to pass a budget so he refuses to try. Way to go Senate Majority Leader!


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

kiffer said:


> No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............


The quote from President Obama drives me crazy. Five years ago I invested in a company (purchased a franchise) - I have worked along with my sons and husband every day ... and if you had told me I would be working full time at 65 when I was 35 I would have laughed at you. I have not seen anyone from the government 'helping' us. In fact, they (the city I live in) took OVER 7 month to issue a business license - then I had to improve our warehouse in the addition of $200,00.00 because of EPA and all the while I had a client waiting to be serviced - We were not collecting any revenue yet we were paying all the expenses. We finally got it up and running but lost a large account due to the red tape ... don't tell me how I did NOT build this ... I'm still sitting on pins and needles praying to God that I will be able to keep my doors open until I see a profit. But I am so blessed that I live here in America and there is NO other country BETTER than this country. Just let's keep the government off our backs. End of my whine.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Janet Odell said:


> Yes, things are a lot better than a few years ago. Our investments have come back to where they were...we did not lose everything as my great grandparents and grandparents did during the great depression. I have heard the stories...children moved in with parents and 70 year old people worked hard just to get by...not to mention the Dust Bowl and all the other aspects of that time. Our government had to make cuts, but it also saved a lot. We have a lot to be thankful for. Take a look at what it was. I know people are hurting, but it could be a whole lot worse.


-------
If your investments simply "came back to where they were" you are doing WORSE than previous. You are simply at "break-even" now when your investments are supposed to increase!

Hate to tell you this, but you are worse off according to your statement.


----------



## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

Cherf said:


> rubycube14 said:
> 
> 
> > Something that many here may not be aware of is the Bush-era tax cuts. It would be interesting to know how much tax revenue has been lost as a result. Just as an example, if someone dies in 2012 leaving an estate valued at $5,000,000, no federal estate tax will be payable from the estate! The beneficiary(ies) receive the entire inheritance tax free. Even if the value of the estate exceeds $5,120,000 (the federal exemption) in 2012, there are so many deductions and credits that any tax may be eliminated, of course depending on the value of the estate and amount of the deductions/credits.
> ...


OH? I prepare federal estate tax returns. There couldn't possibly be that many inaccuracies. You may not agree with some of my opinions, but that does not make them inaccurate. Please tell me more. I am only trying to make the point that some of the revenue is down because of Bush-era tax cuts that are still in effect and not everyone is familiar with the so-called death tax. So if the Bush era enacted it and it has continued through Obama, why is there no improvement? Please be specific, I have studied economics, but am by no means an economist. If you are an economist, please educate me. I have an open mind, do you?

By the way, I am an Independent that tries to understand both sides.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> 5rhode said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...
> ...


Cherf you make me laugh the more I read your opinions, Because that is all it is , is opinions. I received that same email and it is garbage. You use to sound like such an intelligent person, but you get these emails and believe it and then pass it on to others. You are very gullible. Bush actually took more vacation days than Obama, even more than Reagan. Jimmy Carter took the least. Answering you is a waste of time, but sometimes you are being so ridiculous it is hard to resist.


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## KRIKKITWARS42 (Aug 20, 2012)

mojave said:


> Hmmm.... This former faculty member would rather give you and so many others on both sides of the political fence an F for using a quote out of context.
> 
> Cannot argue with the rest of your comment.


I'm sorry but you can give me as many Fs as you want my dear but I've seen the whole video many times - the context only makes it clearer that's EXACTLY what he meant.

-signed a business owner


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

looks like a very deep subject... at this posting its up to 17 pages... but to answer the question the answer is no... they cut all bonuses from hubbys check.. and theres been no raises for 3 years... then my wages went down but that was due to my type of work not the economy... but we have grown in other areas of our lives... when you have been married for a long time you need to pay more attention to each other and not if you are dressed great or drive a fancy car anymore.. our prioritys have changed for the better I think... that helps when we have no money to go do something ... at least we can enjoy each others company...


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

ginnyinnr said:


> It was said last night that the only thing we all have in common is the government. How pitiful is that? That comment dehumanizes each one of us.
> 
> For me, I am so happy to have in common, all knitters on Knitting Paradise!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## KRIKKITWARS42 (Aug 20, 2012)

Bydie said:


> ginnyinnr said:
> 
> 
> > It was said last night that the only thing we all have in common is the government. How pitiful is that? That comment dehumanizes each one of us.
> ...


ditto


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> OH? I prepare federal estate tax returns. There couldn't possibly be that many inaccuracies. You may not agree with some of my opinions, but that does not make them inaccurate. Please tell me more. I am only trying to make the point that some of the revenue is down because of Bush-era tax cuts that are still in effect and not everyone is familiar with the so-called death tax. So if the Bush era enacted it and it has continued through Obama, why is there no improvement? Please be specific, I have studied economics, but am by no means an economist. If you are an economist, please educate me. I have an open mind, do you?


---------
Your facts are inaccurate not your opinions. I'm an accountant, prepare federal tax returns for multi millionaires, have been a CFO, am a business owner, have a Series 7 license, am a certified mortgage planner, Notary Public, Realtor, and currently work as a financial analyst and advisor.

I understand estate tax planning, have created several Trusts and understand estate planning. Some of your statements about trusts and estate taxes are incorrect. I cannot possibly point out each falsehood and explain here in this forum.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sam0767 said:


> kitty boy's mom said:
> 
> 
> > Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.
> ...


OMG, the other presidents wives didn't do it so Michelle shouldn't do it either! Her name is Michelle, not Laura, or Barbara. She is her own person and can do what she wants. Anytime she comes on, you can change the channel if you want. The year is 2012, and things do change. Any by the way, Obama has not taken more vacations than Bush, just more crap put out to make Obama look bad. If you believe the vacation thing show me the proof.


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## KRIKKITWARS42 (Aug 20, 2012)

Cherf said:


> rubycube14 said:
> 
> 
> > OH? I prepare federal estate tax returns. There couldn't possibly be that many inaccuracies. You may not agree with some of my opinions, but that does not make them inaccurate. Please tell me more. I am only trying to make the point that some of the revenue is down because of Bush-era tax cuts that are still in effect and not everyone is familiar with the so-called death tax. So if the Bush era enacted it and it has continued through Obama, why is there no improvement? Please be specific, I have studied economics, but am by no means an economist. If you are an economist, please educate me. I have an open mind, do you?
> ...


As a partner at a law firm who also does estate planning...you are right Cherf - there are so many inaccurate things there I'm not sure where to start...


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ronie said:


> looks like a very deep subject... at this posting its up to 17 pages... but to answer the question the answer is no... they cut all bonuses from hubbys check.. and theres been no raises for 3 years... then my wages went down but that was due to my type of work not the economy... but we have grown in other areas of our lives... when you have been married for a long time you need to pay more attention to each other and not if you are dressed great or drive a fancy car anymore.. our prioritys have changed for the better I think... that helps when we have no money to go do something ... at least we can enjoy each others company...


Very well said, Ronie. In some ways I think that it's been good exactly for the reasons you've stated. We've become such a "throw away" society extending to our familial relationships and that is very sad.


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## ayjay (Apr 3, 2011)

Are you kidding me?
With my husbands health problems, since March and everything going up but S.S.! WE are going backwards. Yes, we planned for our retirement. Investments,(that is a joke now) Pensions, and such. We ususlly go into the doughnut hole on meds in November, this year it is the last of August. Yeah sure, we are better off. The only consilation is no one else is either...
I guess I will just knit my way into the poorhouse.......


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

Rockrose said:


> Are you better off than in 2004?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## grammacat (Nov 30, 2011)

DITTO!!!


pam1954 said:


> Most of us aren't rich and never will be and we struggle to get by every month..but we are alive..the sun is shining..birds are singing..and we have someone who loves us..whether it be a husband..child..friend..etc..we have bad times and good times...all we can hope is that there are more good than bad


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## GrannyDeb (Oct 14, 2011)

I agree with you. All anyone has to do is look around at our country now and remember what it has always been, free, made by the sweat and blood of our fathers and brothers under the constitution of the United States and under God for liberty and freedom for all. Our ansisters died for our freedom not for free handouts. Obama disregards our costitution and the law of the land to fool the people. Fool me once shame on me but fool me twice and shame on you.



Sewbizgirl said:


> Personally, I lost a great full time job because of the economy and now work only part-time, not enough income and no benefits... We are struggling to get by on about half the income we had before Obama.
> 
> As far as our country being better off... everywhere you go there are stores, restaurants, whole shopping centers and blocks of town, deserted and closed up. So many businesses are dead and gone now, you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to realize we are way, way worse off than before Obama was elected. He will blame Bush, as usual, and say he needs another 4 years to "fix it"... the Big Lie. But he's done nothing but make decisions to hurt our small businesses and over-regulate them right out of existance. So many people have lost jobs. Kids coming out of college with huge loans can't find work. Now Obama is touring college campuses touting his great accomplishment to "make college more affordable". HOW? The kids he's talking to aren't stupid. They know college hasn't gotten any cheaper!
> 
> Gas costs more than double now, which drove up our food prices so you can barely afford to eat... and millions more are now on government food stamps. In his first 4 years he's done nothing to make the economy stronger, because he doesn't want to! His goal is to get rid of the "private sector" entirely, drive out all private business, and have the government run everything and everyone's lives. He wants everyone dependant on the government for their existence, and that is not American! I hope enough people are fed up with this man and his cronies, to get rid of them by a huge majority in November. God help us if we don't...


----------



## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Cherf said:


> mojave said:
> 
> 
> > Please do not presume to speak for me. If President Obama and the Honorable Mr. John Boehner can work out a national budget or tax agreement, which does not penalize the middle class, while playing golf - Hurrah!!
> ...


I know Harry Reid. Let's get him out there. I'll even volunteer to caddie. 
He is very much a product of the Nevada "good ole boy" network. He was re-elected the last time because his Republican opponent was too far right for many of the more moderate Republicans. Even Sig Rogich worked to keep Harry in the Senate. Other Nevadans voted for Harry because they were so offended by the superpac money (primarily from the Koch brothers) trying to buy our election. In other words, some of the votes that sent Harry back to Washington were for Harry. More votes were against the alternative.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > I have a question for everyone that has said the president didnt say that
> ...


All of this indirectly affects the growth of a business. What directly affects the business is the work of the owner, the money they put into it and their hard work to grow said business. The spin put out by those defending the president's statement is irrelevant. Of course the business owner didn't make the electricity, build the roads, manufacture the drywall, etc. What the owner did do, was build on an idea and see it through to a sound, prosperous business. And yes, they can say they built that.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> plainjane8283 said:
> 
> 
> > I am flabberghasted that there are so many people parrotting the false (President Obama) 'you didn't build that' quote. There has to be something wrong with the media outlet (and the political party) which would perpetuate false information when clearly there is tape which can be pulled up as to what he said. For those people, I would suggest viewing more than this one "news" outlet. What is wrong with the truth these days, even if it doesn't fit your agenda? Thank you KPers for your respectful, insightful, sometimes heartbreaking, comments. You are classy people!! May God bless you.
> ...


My you are talented, aren't you? You got out there and used your little hands and built a bridge and roads. You paid for your education, but you did have teachers, didn't you? I think I see what the problem is. Republicans revolve everything around money. It doesn't matter about the people involved in helping you get where you are. It is all about MONEY. No appreciation for teachers, construction workers, electric company employees and everyone else that has helped you get to where you are. You didn't do it alone. Go ahead and count you pennies if you want, but it takes more than your money.


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## KRIKKITWARS42 (Aug 20, 2012)

John's old lady said:


> Rockrose said:
> 
> 
> > Are you better off than in 2004?
> ...


What makes no sense about that question, is even if I say "no" - we aren't vetting Obama the candidate for office for the first time to replace a "horrible" President Bush. We are asking if the person who assumed office 4 years ago but who still hasn't assumed responsibility and gives himself an incomplete four years into a four year term has performed as I expect any other employee to perform. He hasn't, and I'm casting my vote to let him go.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > 5rhode said:
> ...


------
Norma, I'm glad I make you laugh as you do the same for me.
I do, however, despise the fact you continue to put words into my mouth (and others) and do wonder how you always "know" where I get my e-mails and opinions from! Perhaps you are stalking my computer and me ....

YOU HAVE NO CLUE where or how I form my opinions, and I state FACTS unlike you and your buddies (most in hiding I'll point out).

I use the brains God gave me, learn, listen, read and experience in person. I'm a leader, not a follower, unlike you, who spouts off Democratic talking points 'cause that is all they know. How original and simplistic!

Of course, you cannot debate or prove my facts inaccurate, so you follow what your leader instructs and attack the person instead.

Fine with me, as those attacks are the best form of flattery.

Perhaps I should go into "hiding" and let someone else present the facts. God knows I've tried!

Proverbs 14:7 
Stay away from a foolish man, for you will not find knowledge on his lips.

Proverbs 18:2 
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his anger, but a wise man keeps himself under control.


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

She (Michelle) is her own person and can do what she wants. Anytime she comes on, 

No, she cannot do what she wants - WE (the American people) pay her/husband salary. They fly in separate planes, why? I could understand once in a while but it's done frequently ... why? What a waste of my money. And please let's STOP with the Bush rubbish ... it's time we moved away from blaming Bush. When is Obama going to own up to what he is/has done that is so wrong for America? Having an entitlement mentality will not move us forward. Only the individual who desires to better him/herself will be a success not someone who is dependent on the government. i know that I can do better for myself than any government program can do for me.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> kiffer said:
> 
> 
> > No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............
> ...


It's NOT a whine, Nina. It's a reality that a lot of us who take risks, work our tails off and lie awake and have nightmares about have experienced. But Obama, who's never had even a job, let alone a business, doesn't "get it".


----------



## moherlyle (May 14, 2011)

absolutely better off.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > rubycube14 said:
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Being at his ranch either one, with their staff would not be considered a vacation if you ask me.
> Extravagant trips to Hawaii would be. Taking seventy five people on vacation on my dollar would also be considered extravagant


Where is your proof? A bogus email from a republican blogger is not proof.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Cherf you make me laugh the more I read your opinions, <Because that is all it is , is opinions. I received that same email and it is garbage. You use to sound like such an intelligent person, but you get these emails and believe it and then pass it on to others. You are very gullible. Bush actually took more vacation days than Obama, even more than Reagan. Jimmy Carter took the least. Answering you is a waste of time, but sometimes you are being so ridiculous it is hard to resist.>

This has been a civil discussion with no personal attacks. Could we please keep it that way?


----------



## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

But Obama, who's never had even a job, let alone a business, doesn't "get it".


You are so right about being kept up at night with worry. I am so scared that I will not be able to meet expenses and will have to keep dipping into the last of my retirement fund. I KNOW that if a conservative was in the WH I would do much better. And you are right ... what risk has Obama ever taken? Has he ever had to put up any of HIS money to get anything? Student loans??? I would like to see them. I had three kids in college when I was very young (as I had them at a very young age) They ALL went to state schools. I had one that would have LOVED to go to Harvard (she was bright enough) but we did not qualify for any help nor did we request it. We sent her to a state university and she is now 48 and doing well for herself. Not as good as years gone by as she is a realtor and is now not selling as much. But she had some great years, she learned to stash it away and now they (she is married) are hanging on.


----------



## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> mojave said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm.... This former faculty member would rather give you and so many others on both sides of the political fence an F for using a quote out of context.
> ...


Nice to talk to a business owner. Hopefully, you will contine to prosper until you are ready to retire. 
Wish I could respond to you as a business owner but my part-time business is no more as my clients were home owners in one of the states hardest hit by the 2008 housing debacle. 
The problem with the statements made in the video seems to be how the statements are interpreted. Perhaps that is related to the personal experiences drawn upon by an individual to filter this type of information. I agree with Obama that government is the provider of services such as roads and utilities because government entities determine which bids to accept from contractors who will build a road or dam.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> But Obama, who's never had even a job, let alone a business, doesn't "get it".
> 
> You are so right about being kept up at night with worry. I am so scared that I will not be able to meet expenses and will have to keep dipping into the last of my retirement fund. I KNOW that if a conservative was in the WH I would do much better. And you are right ... what risk has Obama ever taken? Has he ever had to put up any of HIS money to get anything? Student loans??? I would like to see them. I had three kids in college when I was very young (as I had them at a very young age) They ALL went to state schools. I had one that would have LOVED to go to Harvard (she was bright enough) but we did not qualify for any help nor did we request it. We sent her to a state university and she is now 48 and doing well for herself. Not as good as years gone by as she is a realtor and is now not selling as much. But she had some great years, she learned to stash it away and now they (she is married) are hanging on.


Yes, it's our kids who will suffer the brunt of it all. While I think that "doing without" is a good lesson that each of us can learn from, I'd like that learned lesson to be their choice, not the government's.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

why is this all happening?
Read yes a bible thumper, and proud of it.
Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David H. Stern

the book of " Revelation "

Then you will understand, no matter who or what is going to stop this from happening. 
O.k. let the insults begin, I have big shoulders.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysmomma quote: 
If you noticed when President Bush went on vacation it was to Camp David or his Ranch. Both places were set up as a second White house. One time set up. The work carried on there was the same as if he was in the actual White House. He also used the ranch to entertain Foreign visitors.

So even with all his time at the white house and when he wasn't there he was at the second white house---he still destroyed our economy. Must be that republican trickle down doesn't work!


----------



## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> John's old lady said:
> 
> 
> > Rockrose said:
> ...


Sorry for any confusion. My take on this was that for one, Bush was not universally popular as a president, and two, when HASN'T there been inflation, a fluctuating stock market, some foreign conflicts, inequality in areas such as health insurance, housing, and on and on. I cannot blame one leader for the shifting economy and events in the world. Maybe I'm naive (hope not at my age), but I do not hold one person responsible for all our ills. I ask only that everyone votes in November. And stop shoving all this rhetoric down our throats in the meantime.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> why is this all happening?
> Read yes a bible thumper, and proud of it.
> Complete Jewish Bible, translated by David H. Stern
> 
> ...


No insults Yarnlady! We are all going to be civil here. :thumbup:


----------



## CamillaDesertMouse (Mar 19, 2011)

LOL what a LOADED question...

Well being neither Republican or Democrat but both hubby and I are registered voters on the Independent ticket here in Arizona..So I can be objective on either side..

Our home value is down by $150,000.00...Groceries, gas and utilities are ALL up..but no pay raises in retirement, cannot afford ANY TYPE of health insurance...now facing over $60,000.00 in medical bills due to major surgery in July...Our retirement fund that we so carefully planned for over the years ...GONE... due to this ROTTEN economy...and we live hand to mouth.

Personally better off ...NOPE..but we still feel blessed...as we do not dwell on what we do NOT have but look to see others so much worse off..


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> She (Michelle) is her own person and can do what she wants. Anytime she comes on,
> 
> No, she cannot do what she wants - WE (the American people) pay her/husband salary. They fly in separate planes, why? I could understand once in a while but it's done frequently ... why? What a waste of my money. .


Michelle and Barack Obama cannot always choose to fly in the same plane. President Obama and Vice-President Biden absolutely cannot choose to fly in the same plane. It is a security issue dependent on a variety of factors.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> When all your tax relief expires in January because of this president and his cronies you will sing another tune marylo and 5 rhode
> The housing crises started under Clinton. Bush inherited it. Go back and watch the tapes. Fannie Ma and Freddie Mack were warned and warned and warned hut Maxine Waters and the ret blew them off
> Bush didnot cause all our problems. He inherited a ton including 9-11. Clinton was offered Bin Laden twice and refused the offer but that's ok because he was a Demorat


What did Bush do with the $236 billion surplus he inherited?


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## KRIKKITWARS42 (Aug 20, 2012)

NJG said:


> What did Bush do with the $236 billion surplus he inherited?


He paid for everything that led to Bin Laden's capture for starters


----------



## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

Cherf said:


> rubycube14 said:
> 
> 
> > OH? I prepare federal estate tax returns. There couldn't possibly be that many inaccuracies. You may not agree with some of my opinions, but that does not make them inaccurate. Please tell me more. I am only trying to make the point that some of the revenue is down because of Bush-era tax cuts that are still in effect and not everyone is familiar with the so-called death tax. So if the Bush era enacted it and it has continued through Obama, why is there no improvement? Please be specific, I have studied economics, but am by no means an economist. If you are an economist, please educate me. I have an open mind, do you?
> ...


I don't recall having said anything about trusts, although I do work with trusts, trust accountings, trust administrations as well as estates, guardianships, fiduciary returns, inheritance tax returns, 706s, IH-6s, etc., and have been practicing for 42 years at last count. I did not ask for you to point out ALL inaccuracies, oh no sorry, now its falsehoods (which implies that I am lying), I would settle for just a couple. Yes, I too have administered estates and trusts at the multi-million dollar level.

I'm not really sure if you have anything to back up your comments or maybe you would have. It is certainly unfair for you to accuse me of making false statements without specifics. If you can't do it or don't want to take the time, then your comments were better left unsaid.

By the way, I too am a notary public, but that is no accomplishment. It simply means you completed a form, mailed in your state fee, paid for a bond--blamo you're a notary!

From some of your other comments I have read, you seem to be striking out at several people. Ease up a little and enjoy yourself. It's really kinda hard to believe we are in a knitting/crocheting website, even though I understand we are in a general section right now. Do you knit or crochet? I crochet and it's very relaxing for me. I could really use some crocheting right now, but alas I need to get back to work.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> The war was not a choice but a necessity that caused the deficit
> Yesterday it came out that Senator Obama brought a lawsuit against the motgage companies that forced them to loan money to unqualified people who have since lost their homes and want that changed
> $8trillion over ten years. Obama has doubled that amount in less then 4 years. You might not care if your grandchildren have to pay for his stupidity but I sure as hell do


The war in Iraq was a choice. The war in Afghanistan was a necessity to get Bin Laden, which Bush never did and wasn't concerned about. Obama got him, which Bush should have done instead of going into Iraq.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> John's old lady said:
> 
> 
> > Rockrose said:
> ...


But how does going back to what Bush did make things better?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf said:
> ...


Ok, they are facts---prove it. I received the exact same email with that information in it. I deleted it, wish I had saved it so I could send it to you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If you want answers to your questions study economics. History proves that when taxes are lowered more businesses employ folks and consequently more revenue flows to the govt.
Simply concept proven again and again.[/quote]

If history proves that lowered taxes leads to business employing more people, why aren't more people working right now? We've had Bush tax cuts still in effect and there's no proof at all that lowering taxes has worked--quite the contrary.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ninal46 said:


> She (Michelle) is her own person and can do what she wants. Anytime she comes on,
> 
> No, she cannot do what she wants - WE (the American people) pay her/husband salary. They fly in separate planes, why? I could understand once in a while but it's done frequently ... why? What a waste of my money. And please let's STOP with the Bush rubbish ... it's time we moved away from blaming Bush. When is Obama going to own up to what he is/has done that is so wrong for America? Having an entitlement mentality will not move us forward. Only the individual who desires to better him/herself will be a success not someone who is dependent on the government. i know that I can do better for myself than any government program can do for me.


Yes she can, if she wants to go on Letterman, she can. If she wants to go on the View, she can. A lot of parents fly separately if they have children, so if there is a crash, their children are not left without parents. Bush did start all this mess, sorry but true so he gets the blame. Why do you think he pretty much stays in hiding?


----------



## dingo (Jun 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> The war was not a choice but a necessity that caused the deficit
> Yesterday it came out that Senator Obama brought a lawsuit against the motgage companies that forced them to loan money to unqualified people who have since lost their homes and want that changed
> $8trillion over ten years. Obama has doubled that amount in less then 4 years. You might not care if your grandchildren have to pay for his stupidity but I sure as hell do


Which war was a necessity? Did Iraq attack us? Did he harbor ElQuida? No. And if you read the investigations that were done later you will find out that they also lied to Colin Powell and he gave a false report to the United Nations.

Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfield should be punished for what they did to this country. We lost thousand of men and women and spent billions of dollars. At least Obama has the sense to pull the troops out.

I always say I will not get involved in these things on KP. Then I see what is written and I can't believe it. I am sorry for all of you who are having a difficult time, but it was not Mr. Obama who got us into this. In fact, if it would not have been for the Republican congress, more would have been done.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Re the debt
The Bush wars weren't even in the budget. Obama put them there, and that's why the debt has gone so high.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> I don't recall having said anything about trusts,
> 
> --------
> You didn't and that is part of the reason I disagreed.
> ...


----- I don't need you to tell me how to act. I have plenty others already in this thread doing that job for you! Ha!


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## Carlyta (Mar 23, 2011)

Yes & no. Four years ago I had job and was able to have money to buy a house that to me 30
years to get. Yes I have a house. No: 1 year after I finally got my house (which took 11 months to get to settlement) Wells Fargo Bank fired me as one of their agents. I had to withdraw my SS early in order to try to keep my home. You are right about everything going up in price. Been looking for a job for 2 yrs--nothing. I'm blessed that my 2 daughters help me. Tried to get Medicaid because of my back. I was denied and was told I could still do real estate. No so that's what caused my back problems. And it's very had to get senior citizen help in my state. Carlyta


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> 5rhode said:
> 
> 
> > FYI - no president in recent history took more vacation time than George W. Bush - especially in time of war...
> ...


My goodness, you certainly don't let your hatred for the man get in your way, do you?


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

My facts are far from emails as yours seem to be
The bias media reports most of these facts as does radio and news papers
You might try reading these once on a while. You might learn something


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > What did Bush do with the $236 billion surplus he inherited?
> ...


What did war in Iraq have to do with capturing Bin Laden? Yes he went into Afghanistan, but HE didn't get him. What did all the tax cuts for the wealthy have to do with killing Bin Laden? What did the unfunded medicare drug plan have to do with killing Bin Laden? Bush wasn't concerned about Bin Laden. Everyone heard him say it.


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## killashandra (Nov 22, 2011)

Definitely not. Husband lost tons of stock market retirement that has not recovered at all, been self employed and am over 50 so can't get health insurance and have several issues that I can't afford to deal with because of that, marriage is not what it should be, have recently found out husband has Narcissistic personality disorder and will never be able to function in a normal way as a husband emotionally so I either leave or live with it...neither is good or acceptable so I am feeling caged and at a dead end with my life. I hang onto things that I love, like my daughters, knitting, sewing etc. just to exist. I am trying very hard to make things better but it's a very very slow process that does not seem to be getting any better.


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## michiganmilly (Dec 10, 2011)

Well, this has been an interesting thread...it's so nice that everyone understands that all our hard earned freedoms are thriving so well...especially the freedom of speech! I am personally a die hard Democrat. My parents worked very hard to give my siblings and I the best life possible. We were not well off by any means, the opposite would be closer to the truth. I am very thankful for them and all of the sacrifices that were made, because we were their children. My mother worked for BF Goodrich for many years, standing on hard concrete floors with stasis ulcers on her legs, that were so bad that if it were today, she would have been on disability. However she sucked it up and went to work everyday. My father was a carpenter, and he too worked hard to provide for his family. We, as a society, have become so self absorbed and selfish that all we think about is how "we" are going to benefit. No, I don't believe that God expects us to rely on others to provide all our needs, however, I do firmly believe that we are our neighbors keeper. I think that the safety nets put in place by some forward thinking people, are necessary. The rich did not get to where they are without walking on those less fortunate than themselves. The unions did not come to be because the company owners were generous in either wages or working conditions. Those of you who are against the unions, you would not have the wages, benefits you enjoy today without the sacrifice of those early organizers. I did not like George W Bush, but I would never have subjected him to the kind of disrespect that our current President has endured. You may not like everything he has done (nor do I), however he has done the best that can be expected from another human being, given the situation he was in. He had a congress that was more interested in making sure that he was "a one term president" than in making the rest of the country their primary concern. I just hope that each and every one of you Americans get out and vote, yes even if you are a Republican, to exercise that right. If you don't vote, don't complain.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> KEgan said:
> 
> 
> > He probably took credit for the US winning the Olympics, too!!
> ...


Yes, Romney went to the federal government to bail out the Olympics that year.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> If history proves that lowered taxes leads to business employing more people, why aren't more people working right now? We've had Bush tax cuts still in effect and there's no proof at all that lowering taxes has worked--quite the contrary.


--------
Well, because the Obama admin has increased the taxes on businesses and higher income earners who ARE the entrepreneurs who start businesses. Also, those already in business are unable to predict and absorb the higher taxes coming in 2013 and 2014 and the extreme high costs of Obamacare that employers have stopped hiring, cut labor costs (jobs) and are hoarding any capital they have for the "unknown" that is coming down the pike to their business.

BTW: Obama wants to end Bush's tax cuts. Because of the higher taxes already in place, there are less employees which in turn sends less revenue to the govt. Proof that higher taxes = less revenue and wealth.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Bydie said:


> jzzyjacque said:
> 
> 
> > If you listened to his speech, that was taken out of context (imagine that), or even check snopes.
> ...


I agree not out of context


----------



## meann (Jan 2, 2012)

Yes! better. Thanks God! We were living in not so good house... I may say very bad environment.. A week after my daughter passed the board Exams for Geologists she gave me money to pay down payment for a new house she found online. Within a week we moved and it is really a 360 degree turn. The place is very quiet. very clean. a place with a class. Even if we are now renting the house for 7,500 pesos and before we were not paying a cent and it might be difficult to adjust the first few months, still I can feel the accomplishment. Soon my second daughter will be working as well - after she takes the board exams - and it would mean reaping the fruits of my labor. Really God is so good!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > If history proves that lowered taxes leads to business employing more people, why aren't more people working right now? We've had Bush tax cuts still in effect and there's no proof at all that lowering taxes has worked--quite the contrary.
> ...


Proof please of where Obama raised taxes on businesses and high income earners.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> My goodness, you certainly don't let your hatred for the man get in your way, do you?


I do not hate the man, I despise his policies and disrespect for the US military, the Constitution and his lack of leadership. That is my right, is it not? Yep, pretty sure it is as afforded by the USA military and the Constitution.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Which policies in particular do you despise?


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

I suggest the subject of politics be dropped. Friends are beating up on friends, saying mean things. This is not debate. Leave that up to Obama and Romney and we can all watch.

Ginny


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## kiwi girl (Jun 19, 2012)

Don't forget that for the first two years the democrats actually held the House and the Congress not the republicans.


dingo said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > The war was not a choice but a necessity that caused the deficit
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> The so called help we received is paid for by the taxes that we paid. They were enormous


Same here.


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## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

KRIKKITWARS42 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > rubycube14 said:
> ...


Excuse me !!!! Can no one back up their statements!!??? No one knows where to start ????? Please EXPLAIN yourselves !!!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

KEgan said:


> smontero237 said:
> 
> 
> > NO! Due to ecomomy my income was slashed almost 50%, I was on commission and both my company and the client "restructered", keeping more of the income I generated for themselves.
> ...


Very sad that family can turn on you. They're the ones who should be helping, but I guess that's a thing of the past. Well, we don't think you're lazy OR worthless - so stick with KP!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

sam0767 said:


> kitty boy's mom said:
> 
> 
> > Do you remember the Boston Tea Party? It seems that every time you turn around Obama is on vacation or out golfing. I wouldn't think his job would give him this much time when our country is in such a mess. I know policticans have the best health care for life when our soldiers who put their life on the line can't get the same.
> ...


I remember when Obama was elected. Mrs O was on a talk show, and they asked her what was her weakness. She said it usually involved putting stuff in her mouth - meaning food. I guess she'd gained a little weight. Shortly after that, she began her cause to change the eating habits for all of us. It worked for her.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

KEgan said:


> Much better for my Husband & I. We sold our 3-family in a short sale, because Bank of America wouldn't help us.
> 
> Last June, we purchased a Mobile Home. Had a lot of repairs that were done and moved in July 3rd. We don't owe anyone anything, now, meaning we don't have a mortgage. It's a peaceful situation for me. No tenants to deal with. In 12 years, we only have had 2 sets that were wonderful.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I once read that Shirley MacLaine, who had a LOT of money, said that as she became older, she realized how little she needed to be happy. Down-sizing can be a very good thing!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> jzzyjacque said:
> 
> 
> > If you listened to his speech, that was taken out of context (imagine that), or even check snopes.
> ...


I wouldn't suggest Snopes. They have an agenda.


----------



## Smilingmama (Oct 6, 2011)

I was about to reply, but jumped to the last page and saw that it has turned into a political debate instead!

Anyway, as for the original question, no I am very much worse off. My son left 6th form after one year and is now looking for a job but struggling. All help I was receiving stopped the day he left, but it's ok because the government says I only need £71.00 to live on. When the rent is £81.00 I would dispute that! I have no savings, had to raid the money boxes for petrol money this morning and never seem to get ahead with any bills. But.......

On the plus side, I still have the same job I had 5 years ago, despite having a stroke 2 years ago, and I love it. I have wonderful friends from all walks of life with so many things in common. I have a supportive family who always look out for me. A son who I know loves me even though he doesn't show it very often. As of 6 months ago I also have a wonderful man in my life who has made me believe in myself again and try to forget the past (a mentally abusive partner who ended up in prison)

So, all in all, yes I am better off, because money, although it would be nice, is not the thing that brings me happiness xx


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

The ground work for your success was laid down by the country. You did not go to a desolate place and completely do it yourself. That is the point. There is no one, not even Pres. Obama, that wants to rain on your parade. The system was already there so that you could come along and set up your business ~ with your own money, your own hard work ~ BUT it ALL, the infrascructure of the system that you use to get to your business, the laws protecting your business, the electricity you use, the phone services, they were ALREADY THERE provided by the US taxpayers. It is not a hard concept to understand.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

The surplus went to a war that was waged because of the death of thousands of Americans on their own soil because of muslim terrorist and extremist
Some chose to forget 9-11 because it's easier to blame President Bush for the last four failed years


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> The ground work for your success was laid down by the country. You did not go to a desolate place and completely do it yourself. That is the point. There is no one, not even Pres. Obama, that wants to rain on your parade. The system was already there so that you could come along and set up your business ~ with your own money, your own hard work ~ BUT it ALL, the infrascructure of the system that you use to get to your business, the laws protecting your business, the electricity you use, the phone services, they were ALREADY THERE provided by the US taxpayers. It is not a hard concept to understand.


Yes, but his main point is not that you didn't do it yourself. His main point is that BECAUSE you didn't do it yourself (cut the wood, build the roads), you OWE a large part of what you've made to the government. I disagree with him because whatever the government does, it does with my money and the money of my fellow citizens - and what the government builds is meant to be used by all of us. The government doesn't have money; it uses ours. Everything it does is or should be owned by the citizens for our use.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

plainjane8283 said:


> The ground work for your success was laid down by the country. You did not go to a desolate place and completely do it yourself. That is the point. There is no one, not even Pres. Obama, that wants to rain on your parade. The system was already there so that you could come along and set up your business ~ with your own money, your own hard work ~ BUT it ALL, the infrascructure of the system that you use to get to your business, the laws protecting your business, the electricity you use, the phone services, they were ALREADY THERE provided by the US taxpayers. It is not a hard concept to understand.


Totally agree I said this a few pages back We did build it from the ground up Taxpayer $ started it all So WE BUILT IT


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> plainjane8283 said:
> 
> 
> > The ground work for your success was laid down by the country. You did not go to a desolate place and completely do it yourself. That is the point. There is no one, not even Pres. Obama, that wants to rain on your parade. The system was already there so that you could come along and set up your business ~ with your own money, your own hard work ~ BUT it ALL, the infrascructure of the system that you use to get to your business, the laws protecting your business, the electricity you use, the phone services, they were ALREADY THERE provided by the US taxpayers. It is not a hard concept to understand.
> ...


Yes, we did!


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

I think you need a new family, keep your head high and don't give up.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> The surplus went to a war that was waged because of the death of thousands of Americans on their own soil because of muslim terrorist and extremist
> Some chose to forget 9-11 because it's easier to blame President Bush for the last four failed years


Exactly right, Nonnie. They attacked us and killed thousands of innocent people, and that was the beginning of all this. We should never forget.


----------



## Karena (Jul 3, 2011)

About the same, but we could cut back on spending. No real purchases or home projects for a while. 
We need to downsize, but how? Too much junk and the house is paid for. Only the utilities are outrageous. 
K


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## m and m (Apr 7, 2012)

dixieknits said:


> The tax cuts for the wealthy that republicans invented and want to continue have not led to more jobs. If low taxes for the wealthy meant more jobs, we should have a roaring economy. Obviously the less they pay in taxes, the more profit they pocket while the rest of us pay the bills. People earning $250,00.00 a year and more, can afford to pay the same percent of their income in taxes as the rest of us. When you engage in 2 wars and lower taxes for the wealthy, outsource jobs, you burn at both ends.


Agree!


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Did Innocent Americans not die on 9-11? 
Have we forgotten so soon.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

No one has forgotten 9-11. Some just choose to make the Iraq war part of it and it isn't. It was fought based on lies and Rumsfeld and Chaney being the main ones to blame. If Bush had been able to think for himself and stand up to them, things might be different. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and that has been proven.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

m and m said:


> dixieknits said:
> 
> 
> > The tax cuts for the wealthy that republicans invented and want to continue have not led to more jobs. If low taxes for the wealthy meant more jobs, we should have a roaring economy. Obviously the less they pay in taxes, the more profit they pocket while the rest of us pay the bills. People earning $250,00.00 a year and more, can afford to pay the same percent of their income in taxes as the rest of us. When you engage in 2 wars and lower taxes for the wealthy, outsource jobs, you burn at both ends.
> ...


Tell that to France. They just raised the tax rate for the rich to 75%!!!!! Can you imagine working and then giving 3/4 of everything you owned to the government? Now the wealthiest are leaving the country in droves. When the wealthy leave, the taxes paid by the rest aren't enough to sustain the government programs and the people who really need help.


----------



## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

You are right, I shouldn't have suggested snopes without checking first. I don't know that they have an agenda but I was unable to find anything there.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> Excuse me !!!! Can no one back up their statements!!??? No one knows where to start ????? Please EXPLAIN yourselves !!!!


-----
I, for one, can back up my statements. However, as I've said repeatedly, this is not an essay course where all sources, experience, education, training, etc., needs to documented. We are having a lively conversation. I do not have the time to point to a resource every time I wish to communicate or comment.

I can point you to my law firm, associate accountants, college textbooks, reference books, etc., who could gladly explain economics and estate law and Trusts to you. However, no one, including me, has the time or responsibility to do so and certainly not for free.

Consider you speak freely and no one asks you to source everything you write; do you see the ridiculousness to ask the same of us?


----------



## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

we are too..We had enough sence to prepare for retirement , Payed the house off 5 years ago , we had lost big with the stock market (401k) but I never worked under it (hairdresser) and DH didn't until the last 15 years of 57 years in the grocery store and never had extra to save ..we never ever lived beyond our means so it has not been a problem at all, we also made sure that we had new heat -air, roof , plumbling fixtures ,dish washer , washer and dryer , and hot water heater..we are able to pay our bills drive a almost new car do and go where we want to The only thing that stresses us is what we pay for Insurance (drug, supplement but we got the best so when we have a bill it is paid for, can't say anything about house and car because we are fine with that preimum(sp) We accually get more in our 2 SS checks than we made when we worked..I know this is not the Norm but it is just the way we roll, raised two kids ,collage etc both are wel ajusted married with great lives of their own...And I thank God for it every day.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> BUT it ALL, the infrascructure of the system that you use to get to your business, the laws protecting your business, the electricity you use, the phone services, they were ALREADY THERE provided by the US taxpayers. It is not a hard concept to understand.


Who are the US taxpayers? Hum .... not only did I build my business, but also I built it again and again and again.

I built it as a US taxpayer using MY money and then again as an individual using MY money and then again paying taxes for my business and then again paying sales taxes incurred in my business and then again paying taxes on the profits of my business and then again paying capital gains on my business and then again when my heirs will pay estate taxes upon my death.
Finally, an END in site. Whew ...... good to know.


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## GDW (Nov 3, 2011)

Like others on this topic, we are not as well off as we used to be. We are both retired, though not yet on the full pension. All our investments have crashed, through no fault of ours. We live rural, which means the constant rising price of petrol increases our cost of living in every way. However, when I hear what goes on the workforce at present, I am not sure I would want to return to it.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bush was honest and truthful. Just because he did things differently dosen't make him brainless
Rude and disrespectful loses most battles.
Bin laden was in Iraq as well as my nephews who fought in the war. One in special services 
I thank GOD everyday they are home safe as many are not and never will be
Blame Bush all you want but history will not find him the worst in American history as it will this one


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Consider you speak freely and no one asks you to source everything you write; do you see the ridiculousness to ask the same of us?

No, I don't. How about after we say something that that we can't back up with proof, we say my opinion. I will do the same. Say my opinion or show a link. The problem with not doing that is people read it, believe it and pass it on. It scares people and does a lot of harm to this country.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Bush was honest and truthful. Just because he did things differently dosen't make him brainless
> Rude and disrespectful loses most battles.
> Bin laden was in Iraq as well as my nephews who fought in the war. One in special services
> I thank GOD everyday they are home safe as many are not and never will be
> Blame Bush all you want but history will not find him the worst in American history as it will this one


 :thumbup:


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> m and m said:
> 
> 
> > dixieknits said:
> ...


If they had been being taxed all along at a desirable rate they would not have the problems they are having and neither would we I might add, we have companies in SC not paying a cent in taxes do to the tax breaks they gave them to come here I am fully aware that they are creating jobs and those folks pay taxes again the middle class pays the brunt of the taxes in all of the world and the rich sail their yachts, have there summer homes , winter homes and four or five just in case the want to go some where else they drive their big gas guzzlers and Ferraris (sp) or Lamborghini's(sp) wear the fancy name designer labels while we wear Wally World garment made in China..


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## Janet Odell (Jul 9, 2011)

Getting back to knitting and crocheting...I loved the USA yarns...where have they gone....and why?????


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## colleenmay (Apr 5, 2012)

DEFINITELY NOT!! My husband would like to retire but he doesn't dare because of all the family that we are helping to keep their heads above water. We have three children. Our two boys are in their thirties. One is in computer science, has been out of work for three years. The other is in business management, has been out of work for two years, and is paying through the nose for health insurance for his seriously ill daughter. Our daughter is 26, graduated top of her class from college with a teaching degree, only job she can get is two hours a day tutoring. My husband's three sisters are all in their fifties or sixties and are all out of work so we are helping them financially. We always lived below our means so that when it came time to retire we could stop scrimping and live easy. Well, our savings are shrinking and soon we will no longer be able to help everyone else. Something has to turn around in this economy, AND FAST!!!! I firmly know and trust God is taking care of us, just wish I knew what he was thinking.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Janet Odell said:


> Getting back to knitting and crocheting...I loved the USA yarns...where have they gone....and why?????


May I suggest you post this as a separate topic so it gets the attention it deserves rather than being lost in the political stew?


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

I like that, lets change the subject. I am half finished with my fan and feather afghan. I can't wait to finish it because then I want to make one for each of my granddaughters. I'd like them to choose the colors, but then they will be watching to see whose I start first. 

Get off the politics please. I come to KP for friends and fun.


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

"Bush was honest and truthful. Just because he did things differently dosen't make him brainless"

Now that is funny!!!!

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :XD: ...
I have never seen to many polititians that told the truth ..If he was so great why was he not invited to the RNC ..They didn't want him thats why


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie, give it up. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11.
Here is a link. 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5223932/ns/us_news-security/t/panel-sees-no-link-between-iraq-al-qaida/#.UEe-9CKt3U0

After the US invaded and opened the door, I'm sure they were there, but not before. In my opinion Bush will be found to the worst president and Obama will not.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Insane liberals
And why don't you give it up


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## ivyrain (Sep 23, 2011)

ginnyinnr said:


> I like that, lets change the subject. I am half finished with my fan and feather afghan. I can't wait to finish it because then I want to make one for each of my granddaughters. I'd like them to choose the colors, but then they will be watching to see whose I start first.
> 
> Get off the politics please. I come to KP for friends and fun.


Are you going to do the same pattern for all? I am making the Illusion Cube blanket and love it so I wonder if I should use the same pattern for others?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

nannykints said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > m and m said:
> ...


I agree nannyknits and when they talk about the rest of us, they say "you people."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Insane liberals
> And why don't you give it up


Thanks for calling me insane. That was real adult of you.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> In my opinion Bush will be found to the worst president and Obama will not.


--------
NJG just for you ...... "in my opinion" Jimmy Carter is delighted presently and thanking God that finally, there will be a President to topple and take his held title as "The Worst President of the United States to date."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

How many of the republicans posting on here watched the democratic convention last night? If you had watched you might have a better idea of what democrats really stand for rather than just the talking points you listen to.


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## nickerina (Jul 29, 2011)

Dsynr said:


> I've been steadily losing ground since George W. and his pals started fixing it so they and the top 1%'s income rose at my expense.
> It's been the rich get richer, the poor get the blame, and the working stiffs pay the bill ever since the Republicans got control of Congress.
> My savings are all but gone. The interest on savings is a bad joke. I live below my means and still struggle with finances. I have never been a big spender. I have a big mortgage. I'm 72 and I still have to work to pay that mortgage. I haven't taken a vacation in 20 years. I need a new pair of shoes and I wonder where the money will come from.
> NO, I'm not better off than I was four years ago, or 14 years ago, for that matter, and it's all the Republican Congress' fault!


The start of the problems in this country, especially the mortgage fiasco started when Clinton removed controls on the banks, the controls that had been put in place in '29 to prevent another depression. Things were gradually going bad before Bush and the Republicans took over. And we sure as H--- are not better off than 4 years ago! Haven't worked in 3 yrs and can't find a job. The present government has imposed so many regulations and increase in licensing that more than the company I worked for went under. As for COLA, when it is taken up by medicare, you really don't get an increase in the amount you have to live on, do you? Everything goes up, but what you have, really, to live on if you are on SS.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

nannykints said:


> "Bush ..... ..If he was so great why was he not invited to the RNC ..They didn't want him thats why


--------
How about this: Bush represents the past and the Republicans are interested in the future and going "Forward."

Please explain to us why the Democrats have invited President Clinton, who is 12+ years removed, from the past, to speak at the DNC Convention today. Oh, yes, the Obama approved campaign slogan for 2012 election is "FORWARD."

Only I see the irony in that? Now, THAT, is funny!

:-D :-D


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## sparlie (Jun 28, 2011)

I feel very good about helping the government to build all the interstate roads and bridges also the turnpikes. I feel that they used my social security which should have been invested and used for my future.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> How many of the republicans posting on here watched the democratic convention last night? If you had watched you might have a better idea of what democrats really stand for rather than just the talking points you listen to.


I did! Yep, me gathering info/perspective from both sides because that is the way I roll. I'll watch again tonight as well. I even listened to CNN even though I know about biases 'cause I wanted to hear the Dem commentators as well.

Least I forgot, NJG, me watching is a "fact" but I cannot prove to you I watched.

I only am a registered Repub so I can vote in primaries and delegate conventions.

Here's mostly what I heard in brief from the DNC last night:

We need more govt and more govt jobs.

To pay more govt workers requires more taxes, so taxes are going up for everyone and especially the rich who create private sector jobs 'cause we need to stop those private sector jobs and create only more govt jobs so the US taxpayer can pay more taxes and have a govt job!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Re: Snopes
Did someone prove they have an agenda or did somebody say that because they gave an answer s/he didn't like?


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## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

I see the "no's", outweighs the "yes's"...I think it would be a YES for me, but I have to continue to work to achieve this, even though I am of retirement age...couldn't live on one (hubby's) wage, and still be able to afford to buy yarn!!


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## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm totally with you on this. Senior citizens are really getting hurt for all the above reasons. Also, if we own a house, it has lost value and is much hard to sell even if you are selling for less than it's true value. My bus trips have gone up considerably due to the price of gas. I figure that each year I am out at least $4000.00 in not receiving the higher interest four years ago from my money market. Seniors can't gamble on stocks so we really don't have too much of a choice to where we place our monies.

I totally sympathize with the younger generation losing jobs, not being able to buy a home due to larger down payments being required even though the interest on a mortgage is outstanding, and also not getting raises. 

The one thing I pity the younger for is not knowing from one day to the next as to whether or not they will have a job. Something has to happen this election - hopefully this will mean cleaning out Congress because they are the actual law makers...our President only can sign/not sign what is offered to him. Hope everyone of voting age can see where our true problem comes from. The President wasn't the one who originally suggested bailing out banks and manufacturers!


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## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

Cherf said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > "Bush ..... ..If he was so great why was he not invited to the RNC ..They didn't want him thats why
> ...


Reminder - Clinton is the one who got us out of debt the last time! Maybe you are too young to remember that. As a man I didn't respect him but as a President he couldn't have been a bigger savior for all of us.


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## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > nannykints said:
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> Reminder - Clinton is the one who got us out of debt the last time! Maybe you are too young to remember that. As a man I didn't respect him but as a President he couldn't have been a bigger savior for all of us.


I, well, remember Pres Clinton and his legacy. I only mentioned his name in my response to the question why Pres Bush didn't speak at the RNC convention last week as an irony highlighted by tonight's DNC keynote speaker. I presented no judgements on Pres Clinton.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I am better off now than 4 years ago. I determine how well off I am by things that are not material like good health, family and friends. I consider myself rich. It is sad that so many people are concerned with amassing wealth and having material objects. I will live my simple life and thank God for all my blessings. I feel sad for those who judge their lives by things as they will never be happy. It's all based on one's perspective of what constitutes a good life. I wouldn't trade mine for anything.


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

Yes, I will do three fan and father afghans for my three granddaughters ages 8, 12, 14. I like the pattern now that I am used to it after tinking back 192 stitches so many times at the beginning. I was beginning to think I was going daft over it. Now I count all the time, automatically.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I only am a registered Repub so I can vote in primaries and delegate conventions.

Here's mostly what I heard in brief from the DNC last night:

We need more govt and more govt jobs. 

I guess you weren't watching the same thing I watched. Methinks your pro-repub bias skewed what you heard


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

If the shoe fits wear it. Adult and you are
This country was founded on hard work not hand outs to the lazy. That is what the democrates want is for everyone to get hand outs so that they can tell us what to think and do. I for one will keep my head high and know I have worked hard and earned everything I have


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## ginnyinnr (May 20, 2012)

I just checked the illusion cube blanket. I have never seen it before. It is really neat, but looks hard, you'd have to count and be careful with every stitch. But it is quite beautiful. If you like it, make it for anyone you like, after all or knitting is a reflection of our selves.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

When Bush let office he left the spot light which was his choice.
Do you know for a fact that he wasn't asked to speak.
I also have heard and read that one Kennedy called him a liar and worse. Said he was unfit to run this country. Very prominent democratic family at that


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

sparlie said:


> I feel very good about helping the government to build all the interstate roads and bridges also the turnpikes. I feel that they used my social security which should have been invested and used for my future.


This is funny... you are not alone. We are all building roads and bridges. I do not have a problem with that. What I DO have a problem with is sending money to other countries to study why "ladies" of the "evening" are drinking too much. I might not feel so awful about it IF the study had been in OUR country. Also, I do not think a bridge that is ONLY built because a turtle has to pass UNDER it is spending my money wisely ... call me stupid, but that is how I feel about MY TAXES.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

.Doodlebug said:


> No! I didn't vote for him the first time and will not now. I am a ProLife believer and he is for abortion on demand. I worked in the med field as an ins. biller during the HMO era which I felt was close to Socialized Medicine and now Obamacare IS Socialized Medicine. All you seniors out there 70 or older will not get any actual medical care for serious conditions like a stroke or brain issue because our treatment after 70 goes to a panel of people, NOT doctors,who will decide how to keep us COMFORTABLE without procedures (straight out of the mouth of a brain specialist who went to a talk on how Obamacare would affect people)! We will wait in line for treatment before 70 as they do in Europe and Canada with Socialized Medicine! Did you not know about the company Obama kept BEFORE the last election? Did you not know about his record in the Senate BEFORE you voted for him? Did you not know about his pastor and his beliefs BEFORE you voted for him? I could go on and on but my biggest regret for all of you who did vote for him is his belief of abortion on demand! Do you NOT know what happens to the so-called fetus when it is killed, yes killed in the womb? Do you not care? My dear God, I pray for those little souls every night - it is comparable to the Jews in WWII! What a pity that many march for the environment, global warming, save the baby seals, etc. and yet not care about those who support killing the baby humans.


Thank you but most don't listen and don't care
That's what happens when you let someone else do your thinking for you
GOD is watching this lunacy

:thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Someone sent me this from the Huffington Post. Maybe everyone needs to watch the video. http:///www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/04/obama-doesnt-want-you-to-know-economy-n-1855172.html


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## LanaG (Feb 15, 2011)

And whom do you think paid for the roads, etc. WE did with our taxes - NOT the government. They don't pay for anything - the taxpayers do!


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## maxjones (Aug 2, 2011)

I am better off. I retired and have no work-related expenses . I bought a smaller home and paid less than my other home brought at settlement. My cost of living is low and I can do some extra things.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > "Bush ..... ..If he was so great why was he not invited to the RNC ..They didn't want him thats why
> ...


-----
Well, I guess no Dems can explain why a 12+years past President is the best person to speak for a convention going "Forward."


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

.Doodlebug said:


> No! I didn't vote for him the first time and will not now. I am a ProLife believer and he is for abortion on demand. I worked in the med field as an ins. biller during the HMO era which I felt was close to Socialized Medicine and now Obamacare IS Socialized Medicine. All you seniors out there 70 or older will not get any actual medical care for serious conditions like a stroke or brain issue because our treatment after 70 goes to a panel of people, NOT doctors,who will decide how to keep us COMFORTABLE without procedures (straight out of the mouth of a brain specialist who went to a talk on how Obamacare would affect people)! We will wait in line for treatment before 70 as they do in Europe and Canada with Socialized Medicine! Did you not know about the company Obama kept BEFORE the last election? Did you not know about his record in the Senate BEFORE you voted for him? Did you not know about his pastor and his beliefs BEFORE you voted for him? I could go on and on but my biggest regret for all of you who did vote for him is his belief of abortion on demand! Do you NOT know what happens to the so-called fetus when it is killed, yes killed in the womb? Do you not care? My dear God, I pray for those little souls every night - it is comparable to the Jews in WWII! What a pity that many march for the environment, global warming, save the baby seals, etc. and yet not care about those who support killing the baby humans.


Amen, Amen, Amen girl. I am with you. I don't want to pay the Tax on Obamacare to abort babies either. I just heard today next the dems are going to try to get ocare to pay for sexchanges. No way do I want any part in that!


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## nhauf001 (Jan 18, 2011)

annamatilda said:


> For myself NO. No raise in Social Security for 2 years, then when there was a raise, the cost of medicare went up.
> Interest rate on my small IRA went from 3.25% in January 2009 to .85% today.
> Prices of everything else has gone up, including the price of yarn.


no, I'm still working full time, my husband's business is down about 97% and we are foregoing house maintenance and sitting on furniture that needs replaced, but -- no one is hungry and we still have a home. More than some people have.


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## yankeecatlady (Jun 3, 2011)

YES


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.


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## lfitzie (Apr 4, 2011)

Definitely not. Our president has to go. Nice fellow but completely out of his league. We are the USA not Europe.


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## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

No, I'm not better off! Can hardly afford the gas prices to drive to work! I'm working harder than I ever have in my life at a gruesome job that I hate, hate, hate! My house needs work that I cannot afford, my health is not as great as it could be....I can't afford to pay attention! I am tired, over worked, underpaid, and disgusted with our government. God have mercy on us if we don't get a new president! God have mercy on us, anyway! These are scary times we are living in. I thought the golden years were supposed to be a time to slow down and take it easy...hah! No time to slow down...if it weren't for occasional knitting, I would give up.


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## Joanie 5 (Apr 12, 2011)

No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive. 

We have never been rich and have always lived consertavily, no yearly vacations, no "toys" ie boats, snowmobiles, skis, etc. We do not go out very much, occassional dinner, and live in a double wide home.We try to help our children as much as we can. Medicare is a joke for people who have worked all of their lives.


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## Joanie 5 (Apr 12, 2011)

No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive. 

We have never been rich and have always lived consertavily, no yearly vacations, no "toys" ie boats, snowmobiles, skis, etc. We do not go out very much, occassional dinner, and live in a double wide home.We try to help our children as much as we can.  Medicare is a joke for people who have worked all of their lives.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.


Well Praise God they put Him back in where He belongs. One Nation Under God. :thumbup:


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > nannykins said:
> ...


Agreed big time Clinton nor Obama got us in to a not winnable war and getting our service men killed including a cousin of mine...and who was it that got Bib Louden and Saddam it sure wasn't Bushes.... the war is what is costing this USA so much every day or should we cut defence and let our kids fend for themselves...I think not


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

Joanie 5 said:


> No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive.
> 
> We have never been rich and have always lived consertavily, no yearly vacations, no "toys" ie boats, snowmobiles, skis, etc. We do not go out very much, occassional dinner, and live in a double wide home.We try to help our children as much as we can. Medicare is a joke for people who have worked all of their lives.


Be sure you send back that check you will be getting or already have for you DH getting into the "donut" hole"


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

nannykints said:


> Joanie 5 said:
> 
> 
> > No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive.
> ...


I'm betting that her husband has paid for that check many times over!


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Four years ago I was working...walking...drawing a living wage.....now I'm (medically forced to...)retired...in a wheelchair and not making enough to live on my own.....I think my answer to this is....no


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.


Best not speak about pandering after that repub convention that said "rah, rah, women" after having their noses in parts of women's bodies in which they didn't belong. And, oh, did one of their own actually provide the most egregious statement regarding 'legitimate rape" and the non-existent secretions of a female's body that protect against pregnancy? But last week, we heard about how Mitt supported women throughout his business and government careers, and how great women are, and how important women are. Trying to get the women's vote? Is that not your definition of pandering?


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## michiganmilly (Dec 10, 2011)

I've always thought that if every government worker had to work for minimum wage, no drawing off of family money, etc. that we all would be better off. If the entire US population had the exact same wage, exact same insurance coverage, the leaders of this free world would have a rapid attitude adjustment! We would ALL be in the same boat and be able to relate to each other. Also, just when did the capital of Israel become Jerusalem? Isn't this playing fast and loose with the facts? Shouldn't someone let the Knesset know they're in the wrong city?


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## PoodleMom (May 12, 2011)

Definitely better! My husband, who was laid off in Feb. 2008, has been working for the past year, both step-daughters are working &, more importantly, living on their own and out of my house!!


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

But did he refuse it or did any refuse the stimulus check they got I think not and they added to the deficit too bet he and all will continue to pay for them..especially if Mitt gets in and lowers the taxes again and again you can not run a country without taxes there is no way and the middle class are the ones that will pay...if you are among the "Elite" then have a great time ...
If Mitt wins I pray that all you voting for him are right and he is the Redeemer we have been waiting for..


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Agreed big time Clinton nor Obama got us in to a not winnable war and getting our service men killed including a cousin of mine...and who was it that got Bib Louden and Saddam it sure wasn't Bushes.... the war is what is costing this USA so much every day or should we cut defence and let our kids fend for themselves...I think not>

I'm so sorry about the lose of your cousin. That is heartbreaking, I know.

Actually, BUSH got Saddam and set the ground work for Obama, after much hesitancy, to give the " go ahead" to get Bin Laden. 
Due to "Democrat Dementia Syndrome", those on the left always forget that Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, etc. etc. voted to go into Iraq. Hillary was wanting to go in as early as 1999....2 full years before 9/11. Can we please get off the "Blame Bush" bandwagon.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.
> ...


Funny! I don't remember anything about the Repubs changing, modifying, adjusting, deleting or adding to the Republican Platform after they discovered that women weren't happy with it as it initially appeared. Hmmmmmm! Imagine that!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The word was "pandering." I guess Dems are the only ones who pander? What do you call all that cheering for women when everyone knows what the repub actually think about women?


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## notwen (May 22, 2012)

I just love KP especially all the different opinions expressed. I think it is a good thing to be able to say what you feel and think.
We are not doing so well but we are so grateful that we live in the U.K. where help is available to those is need.
We are having to sell our home and neither of us can work (too old they say) but hope to be able to rent near to our family in England.


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## beejay (May 27, 2011)

No,I am not any better off. I live on a very tight budget. I try to find things to do that are free such as the library,sr. center,lectures etc.Gas is just outrageous so I try to make trips count by doing as many things as possible. I was very kindly give Netflex for Christmas two years ago and my kids usually give me gift cards.So these things make life nicer. I pray everyday to remain in good health.My heart goes out to all you who are so much worse off than I am.I don't want much so at least I'm not any worse off.


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## Isantimary (Apr 26, 2011)

CrystalP said:


> This is a world where the govennment only cares about lining their own pockets and screwing us anyway they can. I don't beleive a word that comes out of any polititian's mouth. They say what they want us to hear to get voted in, then they screw us.
> Our kids are our future, and for a government to cut education funding is just plain WRONG!!


Right! NO I am not better off.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

The troops are still in Afghanistan . Taken out of Iragi and sent to Afghanistan by this president. Did he not promise to bring them ALL home in the first year.
How soon you forget


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I wish we would get out of Afghanistan!


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## michiganmilly (Dec 10, 2011)

If memory serves, weren't we winning in Afghanistan BEFORE the diversion to Iraq? Our troops would most likely be home without our involvment in Iraq. I'm just afraid that the saber rattlers are going to get us into a war in Iran.


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## Hannelore (Oct 26, 2011)

No, as four years ago my husband was still alive and we were able to discuss any issues that came along. Now I have to decide things on my own. Our electricity bills are amongst the highest in the world and our prime minister earns more than most leaders in the world. Food is coming from overseas more than locally produced, and our farmers are getting less money for their produce. Other than that I have always lived within my means and I still have my health.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I also have heard and read that one Kennedy called him a liar and worse. Said he was unfit to run this country. Very prominent democratic family at that


Oh, Nonnie! Don't even get me started on my first meeting with Ted Kennedy!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.


Yep!! Someone must have run the numbers and realized that there are more Christians and Jews intending to vote than atheists and Muslims. Soooooooo .... all Dems now instructed to pivot and flip flop and re-insert the actual capital of Israel and put God back, too, instead of denying them in everything.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > I also have heard and read that one Kennedy called him a liar and worse. Said he was unfit to run this country. Very prominent democratic family at that
> ...


Sorry Cherf. But the pompous left made me do it. Just wanted to let them know not all dems like him either
:thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Please explain to us why the Democrats have invited President Clinton, who is 12+ years removed, from the past, to speak at the DNC Convention today. Oh, yes, the Obama approved campaign slogan for 2012 election is "FORWARD."quote

Clinton is very aware of what is going on in the world and way more involved than most people. The republican party has moved so far to the right no one from the past years fits anymore. Everyone talks about Reagan, but he wouldn't fit with the republicans of today.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And, oh, did one of their own actually provide the most egregious statement regarding 'legitimate rape" and the non-existent secretions of a female's body that protect against pregnancy?
> 
> -------
> You know that every Republican, super pac, Romney, the RNC, etc. has asked him to step down, drop from his race and admonished him and his statements. No one is supporting him from the Rep party and he will fail. But you're not into telling the facts or truth then again are you?
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

No Cherf---you didn't hear that last night, those are the talking points I was talking about. You just keep repeating the same old stuff as if it is the truth, but it isn't.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it looks like the Dems have decided that it's more advantageous to pander to the Christians and Jews rather than the atheists and Muslims. They have inserted the words "God" and "Jerusalem" (in reference to it being the capitol)into the platform after having removed both words.
> ...


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> The troops are still in Afghanistan . Taken out of Iragi and sent to Afghanistan by this president. Did he not promise to bring them ALL home in the first year.
> How soon you forget


Yep. Also, another of Obama's first promises (still unfulfilled) was to close GTMO. Thank GOD he failed there too!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I wish we would get out of Afghanistan!


Why, then, don't you blame Obama for not keeping his promise to you. Instead he surged there ....


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

.Doodlebug
All you seniors out there 70 or older will not get any actual medical care for serious conditions like a stroke or brain issue because our treatment after 70 goes to a panel of people, NOT doctors,who will decide how to keep us COMFORTABLE without procedures Quote

You are 100% wrong. I have read the ACA and that is not in there. I have posted a link to the ACA before and can do it again if necessary. You need to learn the truth before you pass this kind of stuff on. You are scaring people with lies. Think of some elderly lady out there, past the age of 70, who is very sick and won't go to the Dr because she believed the crap you posted on here. She will stay home and die because of you. Stop it. Read it or be quiet.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> No Cherf---you didn't hear that last night, those are the talking points I was talking about. You just keep repeating the same old stuff as if it is the truth, but it isn't.


Most conservatives don't care if you have abortions or not. We don't think the government should pay for them because to us life is sacred. All life not just a few.
We don't want to have to answer to God for destroying a life that he made. Apparently liberals don't care

NJG just because it's you repeating things it's ok but we cannot. 
Who are you to judge. Way to go Cherf :thumbup:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

michiganmilly said:


> If memory serves, weren't we winning in Afghanistan BEFORE the diversion to Iraq? Our troops would most likely be home without our involvment in Iraq. I'm just afraid that the saber rattlers are going to get us into a war in Iran.


No one has ever won fighting in Afghanistan. All war is waste, but nothing good will come of this one....just like Vietnam. At least the Iraqis are rid of Saddam and have some semblance of freedom.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I am not happy with his continuation of the war in Afghanistan.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Wow, this might end up beating the Mary Maxim hooplala a week or so ago!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I wish we would get out of Afghanistan!


Hey Al! It's happened! We FINALLY agree on something. Bolt the door!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> Clinton is very aware of what is going on in the world and way more involved than most people. The republican party has moved so far to the right no one from the past years fits anymore. Everyone talks about Reagan, but he wouldn't fit with the republicans of today.


-----
So the best the DNC can do is Clinton ... interesting. Pres Clinton can't stand Obama. You should read the history of what Pres Clinton and Hilary said about Obama when Hillary was running against O. Then again, I guess he'll pander for anyone for the sake of his party.

I'll answer for you. The Democrats are defensive, distraught and desperate. They know Pres Clinton has a much higher approval rating than anyone in the present admin so they are calling him in the help get more votes from the indies. Obama and his gang are so far left they fear a thumping in Nov. Best to call in the Pres in US history to be impeached to speak!

Trust me, the Reps never considered calling in Reagan to speak!


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## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> If the shoe fits wear it. Adult and you are
> This country was founded on hard work not hand outs to the lazy. That is what the democrates want is for everyone to get hand outs so that they can tell us what to think and do. I for one will keep my head high and know I have worked hard and earned everything I have


One serious medical problem might just find you needing those "handouts." I'd be careful how I speak! Most of us do have pride and take care of ourselves, but if you lost a job, had no health insurance and needed serious and expensive care, you would be very thankful for the handouts!

There for the grace of God go I - something we all need to remember when casting judgment.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> No Cherf---you didn't hear that last night, those are the talking points I was talking about. You just keep repeating the same old stuff as if it is the truth, but it isn't.


Those are what the Dem pundits said! Not my opinion!


----------



## Mary Smith (Oct 12, 2011)

Cherf said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Clinton is very aware of what is going on in the world and way more involved than most people. The republican party has moved so far to the right no one from the past years fits anymore. Everyone talks about Reagan, but he wouldn't fit with the republicans of today.
> ...


No you had Clint Eastwood instead.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Please explain to us why the Democrats have invited President Clinton, who is 12+ years removed, from the past, to speak at the DNC Convention today. Oh, yes, the Obama approved campaign slogan for 2012 election is "FORWARD."quote
> 
> Clinton is very aware of what is going on in the world and way more involved than most people. The republican party has moved so far to the right no one from the past years fits anymore. Everyone talks about Reagan, but he wouldn't fit with the republicans of today.


As much as it pains me to admit this, I rather miss Old Bill and his piccadillos and rather expect that he was invited because there's a chance he MIGHT be able to give Obama some semblance of credibility..... even though most everyone knows that he can't stand the man.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> .Doodlebug
> All you seniors out there 70 or older will not get any actual medical care for serious conditions like a stroke or brain issue because our treatment after 70 goes to a panel of people, NOT doctors,who will decide how to keep us COMFORTABLE without procedures Quote
> 
> You are 100% wrong. I have read the ACA and that is not in there. I have posted a link to the ACA before and can do it again if necessary. You need to learn the truth before you pass this kind of stuff on. You are scaring people with lies. Think of some elderly lady out there, past the age of 70, who is very sick and won't go to the Dr because she believed the crap you posted on here. She will stay home and die because of you. Stop it. Read it or be quiet.


My mothers Heath care service as much as told her that. I have also lived through some stupid Dr saying there is no pain in my shoulder after a serious fall that I have had 6 surgeries for. 11 yrs later I am still in pain and I never even saw the idiot that said there was no pain. he worked for the government 
Why are Drs quitting left and right. Because they will not be able to follow their oath to take care of their patience. Between my mon, step father, and my daughter they have over 60 years in the medical field. The changes are already being seen.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> .Doodlebug
> All you seniors out there 70 or older will not get any actual medical care for serious conditions like a stroke or brain issue because our treatment after 70 goes to a panel of people, NOT doctors,who will decide how to keep us COMFORTABLE without procedures Quote
> 
> You are 100% wrong. I have read the ACA and that is not in there. I have posted a link to the ACA before and can do it again if necessary. You need to learn the truth before you pass this kind of stuff on. You are scaring people with lies. Think of some elderly lady out there, past the age of 70, who is very sick and won't go to the Dr because she believed the crap you posted on here. She will stay home and die because of you. Stop it. Read it or be quiet.


For crying out loud NJG. Stop telling those who HAVE been DENIED health care that is not the case because you and your reading of the ACA says so!

What more proof do you need to get it in your head you are wrong and hurtful telling these people otherwise. Show some compassion for your fellow man instead of trying to prove what you don't know.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie: Actually, BUSH got Saddam and set the ground work for Obama, after much hesitancy, to give the " go ahead" to get Bin Laden.
Due to "Democrat Dementia Syndrome", those on the left always forget that Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, etc. etc. voted to go into Iraq. Hillary was wanting to go in as early as 1999....2 full years before 9/11. Can we please get off the "Blame Bush" bandwagon.

I haven't forgotten anything. Hillary, Kerry and Edwards were not president then or now and did not make the final decisions to go to war. Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney are the guilty ones and will always be guilty.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> No you had Clint Eastwood instead.


Who was fantastic!!!!!!!  :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > And, oh, did one of their own actually provide the most egregious statement regarding 'legitimate rape" and the non-existent secretions of a female's body that protect against pregnancy?
> ...


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

[My mothers Heath care service as much as told her that. I have also lived through some stupid Dr saying there is no pain in my shoulder after a serious fall that I have had 6 surgeries for. 11 yrs later I am still in pain and I never even saw the idiot that said there was no pain. he worked for the government 
Why are Drs quitting left and right. Because they will not be able to follow their oath to take care of their patience. Between my mon, step father, and my daughter they have over 60 years in the medical field. The changes are already being seen.[/quote]

I take several elderly friends to their doctor appointments. More and more the "We no longer accept Medicare" signs are being seen. It's frightening!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Mary Smith said:
> 
> 
> > No you had Clint Eastwood instead.
> ...


Clint Eastwood was fantastic? What planet are you living on?


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Mary Smith said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > If the shoe fits wear it. Adult and you are
> ...


I did have a serious medical condition after a fall at work. They claimed I didn't have any pain. Been there didn't take handouts then. 6 surgeries and 11 years and I am still in pain 
I don't mind helping those that help them selfs but the lazy should not be given a free ride. And don't try to tell me that there aren't any lazy people that will do everything they can to screw the system


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>

Clint is THE BOMB! Did you know that the first Tuesday in November has been designated "Empty Chair Day"????
Of course, it's been empty for almost 4 years now.


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## 22401 (May 27, 2011)

No we're not better off. Time for change, good change.

Clint was awesome!!



Bydie said:


> <No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>
> 
> Clint is THE BOMB! Did you know that the first Tuesday in November has been designated "Empty Chair Day"????
> Of course, it's been empty for almost 4 years now.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Isn't it a fact that Todd Akin said that junk?
> 
> Cherf: Yep - and I said so.
> 
> ...


Cherf: read Romney's website and check into his SUCCESSFUL career for starters.
Wish I could do the same for Obama. The only thing he accomplished to date was by executive order or fiat because no one, including his own party, supports his actions.


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## theladyinblue (Mar 23, 2011)

Not really. Both adult children are living with us. I just changed jobs, because the 1 hr commute each way was killing me. Let's not talk about the price of gas. Jobs close to home do not pay well, but I have a job. I also have a military retirement, so my family and I are getting through it. I just wish the job market would improve I love my children, but I would like for them to move and be on their own, before they are 30 yrs. Hubby has a stable job, which makes it easier.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>
> 
> Clint is THE BOMB! Did you know that the first Tuesday in November has been designated "Empty Chair Day"????
> Of course, it's been empty for almost 4 years now.


I thought he was senile and felt sorry for him. It was crude, lewd, and pathetic, no matter whom he was making fun of.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I take several elderly friends to their doctor appointments. More and more the "We no longer accept Medicare" signs are being seen. It's frightening!


Bydie! Take NJK with you! According to what she reads, that isn't happening! NJK can get you the health care you desire.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Wrong again Nonnie as usual. I am not pro abortion nor is president Obama. We are pro choice. I pray that no one ever needs or wants an abortion, but if a woman feels it is necessary it should be her choice, not yours and not the government. I have two beautiful daughters and two awesome grand children--I would never be pro abortion. The government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproductive organs.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>
> ...


Democrats should know crude, lewd, and pathetic. Weinberg, Edwards, Kennedy, Clinton such a wonderful decent group
Sure wouldn't want them as examples


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>
> 
> Clint is THE BOMB! Did you know that the first Tuesday in November has been designated "Empty Chair Day"????
> Of course, it's been empty for almost 4 years now.


 :mrgreen:  :shock: :lol: 

The Dems were so impressed I heard they were scrambling for a "like" act for their convention; Betty White was mentioned..... As much as I love Betty, no one will top what Clint did! No telepromters needed either - imagine!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cherf said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Clinton is very aware of what is going on in the world and way more involved than most people. The republican party has moved so far to the right no one from the past years fits anymore. Everyone talks about Reagan, but he wouldn't fit with the republicans of today.
> ...


This is so true. I live in Arkansas and know that both of the Clintons hate o and Michelle hates Hillary.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <No you had Clint Eastwood instead.>
> ...


You all are just in shock because you don't have the whole Hollywood crowd as sewn up as you've always thought. He may have been a bit crude but that doesn't seem to bother any of you when it's someone like Maher or Letterman.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> Wrong again Nonnie as usual. I am not pro abortion nor is president Obama. We are pro choice. I pray that no one ever needs or wants an abortion, but if a woman feels it is necessary it should be her choice, not yours and not the government. I have two beautiful daughters and two awesome grand children--I would never be pro abortion. The government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproductive organs.


Njr you sound as if you are God everything you say is right but everyone else is wrong. Grow up
Just because we are Pro-life dosen't mean we're against choice but many use that so they can do every Tom dick and Harry without having to pay the piper.
You are right about one thing the government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproduction organs and not use federal funds to fund abortions. Our tax dollars not just yours


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

So the best the DNC can do is Clinton: Quote

No, you obviously haven't been watching like you say you have. Did you hear Duval Patrick, Julian Castro, Elisabeth Warren to speak yet tonight, Kamala Harris, attorney gen of Ca. Sandra Flauk and many many more. Our economy was great under Bill Clinton and I am very glad he is speaking. He created 23.1 million jobs while in office. Bush created 3 million.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You didn't ask me if I like Maher or Letterman, did you? I missed that. There you go, making assumptions about others. I dislike Maher and think he is very foul-mouthed, in case you're interested. I never watch Letterman. I suppose Jay Leno is well-liked because he's a republican. Those are the kind of assumptions you people (Romney's phrase, you people) make about others.
You people are unreal!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> So the best the DNC can do is Clinton Quote
> 
> No, you obviously haven't been watching like you say you have. Did you hear Duval Patrick, Julian Castro, Elisabeth Warren to speak yet tonight, Kamala Harris, attorney gen of Ca. Sandra Flauk and many many more. Our economy was great under Bill Clinton and I am very glad he is speaking. He created 23.1 million jobs while in office. Bush created 3 million.


Come on, NJG, let's put our full attention on the convention now. I know you're watching while you're writing, just like I am. These people are for the birds!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Wrong again Nonnie as usual. I am not pro abortion nor is president Obama. We are pro choice. I pray that no one ever needs or wants an abortion, but if a woman feels it is necessary it should be her choice, not yours and not the government. I have two beautiful daughters and two awesome grand children--I would never be pro abortion. The government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproductive organs.


You're kidding, right? While in the Illinois senate, he voted "present" 129 times on issues of right to life. "Present" = "no".......129 times. He even voted "present" regarding partial birth. He is not pro choice....he is pro murder.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Chef, Doodlebug & Nonnie prove it. Show me where it says that kind of stuff in the ACA. You want people to believe you know what you are talking about, prove it. You must have read it.

Quote: My mothers Heath care service as much as told her that.

As much as told her that, what does that mean. They told her or they didn't. If they told her, they were telling her a lie.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > So the best the DNC can do is Clinton Quote
> ...


TSK! TSK! Must be getting hot in here. Guess we'd better take our toys and go home. Sincerely, Have a good night Ladies and enjoy the speeches.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > NJG said:
> ...


No, not getting hot, just crazy!! I watched all of the RNC last week and I'll watch the DNC this week. Ciao, now.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> Chef, Doodlebug & Nonnie prove it. Show me where it says that kind of stuff in the ACA. You want people to believe you know what you are talking about, prove it. You must have read it.
> 
> Quote: My mothers Heath care service as much as told her that.
> 
> As much as told her that, what does that mean. They told her or they didn't. If they told her, they were telling her a lie.


 I don't have to prove it I have lived it. 
You are not always right so get over your self.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

NJG said:


> Consider you speak freely and no one asks you to source everything you write; do you see the ridiculousness to ask the same of us?
> 
> No, I don't. How about after we say something that that we can't back up with proof, we say my opinion. I will do the same. Say my opinion or show a link. The problem with not doing that is people read it, believe it and pass it on. It scares people and does a lot of harm to this country.


I think most of us are speaking about how all of these last almost four years have related to our personal circumstances we do not need data to back up what has happened to our own savings(or lack thereof because of the way things have gone) We will show our feelings come Nov without having to check resources we know what has happened to Jobs Savings 401ks retirement plans all of these things have happened to us So we will be the ones who decide what the next 4 years will bring


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf: quote For crying out loud NJG. Stop telling those who HAVE been DENIED health care that is not the case because you and your reading of the ACA says so!

They are not saying they have been denied healthcare. They are saying people over 70 will be denied healthcare because of their age which is not true. Have some compassion for the person , over 70 who might believe it and not go to the Dr for that reason.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> Cherf: quote For crying out loud NJG. Stop telling those who HAVE been DENIED health care that is not the case because you and your reading of the ACA says so!
> 
> They are not saying they have been denied healthcare. They are saying people over 70 will be denied healthcare because of their age which is not true. Have some compassion for the person , over 70 who might believe it and not go to the Dr for that reason.


My mother is eighty-three and she has been denied so get over yourself Njg.
I don need to prove to you something that I am living. You DO NOT have all the answers. You are not living in our shoes. So as I have said before get over yourself


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

I can't stand it when people want to blame the economy on our current administration. Does everyone have total amnesia?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Consider you speak freely and no one asks you to source everything you write; do you see the ridiculousness to ask the same of us?
> ...


I am not talking about what has happened to your 401K, savings or job. I believe you. I am talking about making a statement about the president or healthcare etc as if it is fact. I am pretty sure you are wrong so prove to me that it is fact other than opinion. A lot of people read this and then pass it on. A lot of elderly people read this and believe a lot of stuff. It should be fact to avoid hurting these people.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf: quote For crying out loud NJG. Stop telling those who HAVE been DENIED health care that is not the case because you and your reading of the ACA says so!
> ...


If your mother is 83 and has been denied healthcare, I would be seeing a lawyer, not chatting on a knitting web site.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

NJG said:


> scottishlass said:
> 
> 
> > NJG said:
> ...


You prove you are right


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

You prove you are right

The person that made the statement should be able to prove it as fact.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Presidents haven't created jobs since the 40's or 50's, unless they have expanded government.

Yes I AM better off than I was 4 years ago! Though part of that is because I was proactive rather than reactive. 

When I relocated 5.5 years ago I didn't go for the "maximum" mortgage that I could afford, the largest or most ornate home I could afford. I went for what truly met my needs and that I could afford if my hours got slashed.

I bought a new car earlier this year..one that gets 44 mpg because I got tired of filling up a gas hog every 10 days. Now my car is basically free, yes I'm saving that much on gasoline. 

I work for a company that has NEVER had a layoff in 40 years of business..now the company is trying to cut back on overtime..that will protect jobs.

Health care costs are out of sight, this is true. Once again being proactive can help cut your health care costs. Diet, exercise and regular check ups can help cut costs.

It's not just the state of the American Economy, or the North American economy...the global economy plays a part in all of this too and no US president has ever been able to control that!

Unemployment stinks, well quit buying foreign made goods and support American made products..yes that helps! Support your local economy too, whenever possible. 

Don't tell me you cannot afford to do these things either!

Your local merchants need your support, your local health department can provide you with information on free nutrition classes, blood pressure screening and a host of other health related issues.

Just my 2 cents!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > NJG said:
> ...


Are you going to pay the lawyer? Your talk is cheap


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

But their employees are not all of the same religion so they are entitled to the healthcare, they want, not the care their employer thinks they should have.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

NJG said:


> You prove you are right
> 
> The person that made the statement should be able to prove it as fact.


The critic should also be able to disprove the other persons statement its a neverending quest you say you are correct the other person thinks he is correct it is what it is get over it


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> But their employees are not all of the same religion so they are entitled to the healthcare, they want, not the care their employer thinks they should have.


Religious groups mostly employ people from their denomination. Obamacare is saying they have to provide services that go against their beliefs. That is WRONG


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

NJG, I hate to tell you this but employers buy into group insurances that offer them and the employee the best rates and best coverages. I'm not sure what religion has to do with it but if you want a different insurance than that offered by the employer..it's up to YOU to pay for it. If you opt out of employer provided health care you can also cause fellow employees to have to pay more.


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## michiganmilly (Dec 10, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Presidents haven't created jobs since the 40's or 50's, unless they have expanded government.
> 
> Yes I AM better off than I was 4 years ago! Though part of that is because I was proactive rather than reactive.
> 
> ...


Bless you...a voice of reason.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

You know ladies none of us are going to change any one else's minds in regard to changing parties we are just getting each other wound up--- the final out come will be decided in Nov So it is best to settle down to getting out to vote for our particular choice


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## kacey64 (Mar 23, 2011)

A while back, I read an article that told about the subliminal messages they would be using to get obama a second term. From what I am reading here, it is obvious it is working. I can not believe the people in this country are blind to the damage this puppet has already done.Debt over 16 trillion dollars (and that doesn't include the interest that increases every second!), unemployment way over 8.1% because that figure is based on unemployment benefits. It doesn't count those who have exhausted those benefits. Homeless families increasing hourly! Prices of everything sky-rocketing. The Constitution and the rights of the people shredded! And for those of you who think you are better off because of your retirement funds, what do you think is going to happen to those funds when the crash occurs (and it is close)! Quit watching the MSM and do some research into the truth!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

kacey64 said:


> A while back, I read an article that told about the subliminal messages they would be using to get obama a second term.From what I am reading here, it is obvious it is working. I can not believe the people in this country are blind to the damage this puppet has already done to this country! Debt over 16 trillion dollars, unemployment way over 8.1% because that figure is based on unemployment benefits. It doesn't count those who have exhausted those benefits. Homeless families increasing hourly! Prices of everything sky-rocketing. The Constitution and the rights of the people shredded! Quit watching the MSM and do some research into the truth!


I know. It is like they are under a spell or brainwashed!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

kacey64 said:


> A while back, I read an article that told about the subliminal messages they would be using to get obama a second term. From what I am reading here, it is obvious it is working. I can not believe the people in this country are blind to the damage this puppet has already done.Debt over 16 trillion dollars (and that doesn't include the interest that increases every second!), unemployment way over 8.1% because that figure is based on unemployment benefits. It doesn't count those who have exhausted those benefits. Homeless families increasing hourly! Prices of everything sky-rocketing. The Constitution and the rights of the people shredded! And for those of you who think you are better off because of your retirement funds, what do you think is going to happen to those funds when the crash occurs (and it is close)! Quit watching the MSM and do some research into the truth!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you, Kacey!!!!


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

You tell em Kacey


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## 22401 (May 27, 2011)

Exactly right Kacey!


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

smontero237 said:


> NO! Due to ecomomy my income was slashed almost 50%, I was on commission and both my company and the client "restructered", keeping more of the income I generated for themselves.
> 
> In one month my homeowner assn. increased from 250.00 to 500.00 for repairs. My impound account also increased 250.00 since they were not taking enough out for taxes. I was struggling to keep my home and this turned out to be the fatal blow.
> 
> ...


Wow! I'm so sorry to hear about all the horrible things that
have happened in your life the past 4 yrs... I pray that you
have better times, and get the love and respect you deserve! God Bless you!


----------



## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

No, I am NOT better off because of the economy... I work hard at my job (which I'm thankful that I have), but have not received any raises the past 4 years because of a freeze
which is tied into the recession. There is less tourism and
less people working, less property taxes, so the Police budget is very tight.
In the mean time, prices are sky high on everything!!!
Also, they've had to cut insurance benefits, so more comes out of our salary... but at least I have insurance.
My daughter can't get insurance because she had high blood sugar and is only employed part time... only jobs available
in Las Vegas... no benefits. My husband works full-time but
his company does not offer insurance that's worth anything.
It doesn't cover well care, hospitalization or most drugs.
So, I have to work to cover him, as he has diabetes, and has
had skin cancer twice.
Our home was purchased for $255,000 in 2002 and is worth only $150,000 now... we put $100,000 down, and are underwater, and lost our investment... have had to replace
every appliance so far!!! They don't make them like they used to, probably because they all come from CHINA or MEXICO
I'm disgusted with politicians!!! They're the only ones better off after 4 years!!!


----------



## rdejam (Jul 30, 2012)

I was laid off in 2009 but we knew it was coming and put money aside. When I couldn't get another job in my field, I started sewing for extra income so by happenstance, I'm doing something I love. My sister and brother have received kidney transplants and have their health now. Most importantly, my nieces and nephews who have our hereditary disease can't be denied healthcare anymore. So yes, we are much better off now.


----------



## LaurieJanesplace (Aug 8, 2011)

Joanie 5 said:


> No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive.
> 
> We have never been rich and have always lived consertavily, no yearly vacations, no "toys" ie boats, snowmobiles, skis, etc. We do not go out very much, occassional dinner, and live in a double wide home.We try to help our children as much as we can. Medicare is a joke for people who have worked all of their lives.


Feel free to turn in your medicare card.


----------



## marilou (Jul 30, 2012)

LaurieJanesplace said:


> Joanie 5 said:
> 
> 
> > No. If I had known how things would be with Medicare I would not have retired. We are barley making ends meet, I am trying to find a part time job, my husband already has one. We pay a huge amount monthly for our suplimentary insurance and have no dental coverage at all. Prescriptions are outrageous. DH is in "the donut hole" right now and takes quite a bit of medications some of which are very expensive.
> ...


----------



## marilou (Jul 30, 2012)

socialism does not work. Obama has set out to destroy this country and he definitely doing this!


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## marilou (Jul 30, 2012)

Amen


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## missylam (Aug 27, 2011)

I am worse off.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> No one has forgotten 9-11. Some just choose to make the Iraq war part of it and it isn't. It was fought based on lies and Rumsfeld and Chaney being the main ones to blame. If Bush had been able to think for himself and stand up to them, things might be different. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and that has been proven.


I never heard that before.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

jzzyjacque said:


> You are right, I shouldn't have suggested snopes without checking first. I don't know that they have an agenda but I was unable to find anything there.


I've often done the same thing, but someone sent an email about Kagan on the Supreme Court. Snopes had said it was NOT true that Kagan defended Obama on some issues. I knew that she had because earlier I'd actually read some of the material from the court. So - I'm not sure about Snopes. There are a few others out there, but who knows? You can put anything on the internet. We just try our best to figure it out. We might not get it right every time. I'm sure I don't. But - we try!


----------



## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong again Nonnie as usual. I am not pro abortion nor is president Obama. We are pro choice. I pray that no one ever needs or wants an abortion, but if a woman feels it is necessary it should be her choice, not yours and not the government. I have two beautiful daughters and two awesome grand children--I would never be pro abortion. The government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproductive organs.
> ...


My Mother told me a long time ago the Republicans are poor sports and the true colors are truly showing.


----------



## catzndogz (Apr 6, 2011)

KatStabe said:


> No! Lost my job, we lost the house, are now on welfare. And before anyone accuses, I don't have internet. I go downtown and use free Wifi.


I also hope things improve for you, I cannot imagine what you have gone through.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

jzzyjacque said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > NJG said:
> ...


This is bonbf3. I can never tell who said what because of the way these blocks are set up. BUT - Republicans aren't always poor sports. Democrats aren't always poor sports either. I'm lucky to live in GA where I don't have to declare a party. When I first started voting, back when women first got the vote (well, not THAt far back), I registered as a Democrat. Kennedy, you know. But - now I vote the person. However, I am pro-life and would not vote for a pro-choice candidate because I don't believe we have the right to take a human life - either the innocent babies or the guilty criminals. Maybe we'd like to, but I just don't think we have that right. Just my opinion, but a strong one for me. Anyway, let's try to play nice even though we may disagree.


----------



## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

there is one thing here that seems to be mentioned in many comments. have learned to live frugal ...not going into debt and saving as much as possible. Lessons learned from our parents. My father lived in poverty as a child and only went to the third grade. He worked in a cotton mill until old enough to go into the Army. Decided to not repeat the life his parents lived. Here in So Oregon the underemployed or unemployed is much higher than the national level claimed. It is sad to see forty and fifty year old fathers trying to take care of their families on low wages ...when fuel and food continue to rise. I do not like to watch congress people getting on TV and talking down to us. I feel they want us indebted to hand outs ...in exchange for our votes. Well...they do not have mine...yet!!! and hopefully never will.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Barb R said:


> Question: Are you personally better off today than 4 years ago?
> Personally - no - I lost my husband 4 months ago after a 7 year battle with cancer.


Barb, I am so sorry for your loss and I apologize if any of the comments here seem like trivial complaints. I am humbled by the the reminder your perspective offers.


----------



## jzzyjacque (Oct 30, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> jzzyjacque said:
> 
> 
> > Nonnie said:
> ...


That certainly is your perogative but I think most women are wise enough to know what to do there bodies and lives and the choice should be there. There were times in my young life that I would have been happy if there had been a Planned Parenthood available. Roe vs Wade has saved many a young girl from being maimed. Things have certainly changed in the last 58 years when I was a sweet young thing.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

No way - got that raise in ss and they took it back and then I earned too much to get any help any more and its a nightmare. I can't afford any of my asthma medications or my insulin.....I have no idea how I earn too much now and it is the same except for the huge raise we got ....we paid a lot of money in to social security and now they treat us like we are on welfare and it keeps getting worse.

Again we have bad choices on both sides and I tell people we have to vote out those who are in office and next time until they get the message. Hopefully we have something left by then.


----------



## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

No way - got that raise in ss and they took it back and then I earned too much to get any help any more and its a nightmare. I can't afford any of my asthma medications or my insulin.....I have no idea how I earn too much now and it is the same except for the huge raise we got ....we paid a lot of money in to social security and now they treat us like we are on welfare and it keeps getting worse.

Again we have bad choices on both sides and I tell people we have to vote out those who are in office and next time until they get the message. Hopefully we have something left by then.

What is the worst is they have a special ss for themselves - the wives get $250,000 a year so you can imagine what the husband or one in office gets. I could live for very many years on that.


----------



## rdejam (Jul 30, 2012)

It sure does seem like this convo has gotten a little off track. My condolences to Barb who started this before it got hijacked. I'm thankful for so many things and so saddened by some of the nastiness that's being spewed here. It's bad enough we're bombarded by all the negativity every time you turn on the tv but in this arena, I hoped for nicer posts. I know things aren't better for a lot of people but the hate speech doesn't help.


----------



## rdejam (Jul 30, 2012)

and on that note, I'll unfollow this. I'm sorry I read and posted here.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> So the best the DNC can do is Clinton: Quote
> 
> No, you obviously haven't been watching like you say you have. Did you hear Duval Patrick, Julian Castro, Elisabeth Warren to speak yet tonight, Kamala Harris, attorney gen of Ca. Sandra Flauk and many many more. Our economy was great under Bill Clinton and I am very glad he is speaking. He created 23.1 million jobs while in office. Bush created 3 million.


As usual, you are wrong about me NJK and putting words in my mouth; I expect no less. I'm not responding to you any more - complete waste of time.

I've watched each speech as I SAID I did/would; yet again I can't prove it to you so go ahead and ask me to "prove" it again. Boy is this getting old ....

Duval Patrick is about as 'let's follow the leader over a cliff' as you can get. Remember, I, unlike Dems, do not hide my location. Notice I live in MA and Duval is our governor. No substance there; just talking points and follow the leader antics.

MA is in such a worse state today because of Duval, but of course, he lied his way through his speech. Not that you would know because you obviously don't follow or understand MA politics and the scene. Yawn .....

Elisabeth Warren (also from MA) 
doesn't even deserve my time to comment.

Sandra Fluke is a premier law student who complains about not being able to get $9/mo birth control for free. Now there is an issue I'm sure every senior woman in American cares about that MUST be covered in the Obummercare law. Fluke was the warm up act to Pres Clinton and Warren. Dems must be very worried. Women are worried about jobs, jobs, jobs. Not a made up story of how they are being denied birth control.

As usual, Bill delivered a great speech except is was littered with lies. To his credit, Pres Clinton worked with Reps and "lowered" taxes to improve the economy as it was suggested to him to come to the center. However, in his speech he said the country must "invest" in education, poor child, infrasture, blah, blah, blah. Do you know the word "invest" to Dems means "raise your taxes." I hope you're OK with that since it is completely opposite what Bill did on his path to financial success (in a very different economy).

Obama is left, has always been left, has raised taxes in a worse economy that Bill had and is moving more left. No equal comparison... Yet, the FORWARD, convention gasped over a Pres 16 years Back in time who quoted Republican Reagan no less! Priceless ....

Bill said that under O everyone's taxes went down and everyone has seen a cut in their health care premiums. Really? I haven't and that isn't what I hear, see and learned in this thread either.

Can any Dem give me a list of actual accomplishments and what you heard tonight that will lower health care cost, create jobs and improve the economy? No, I didn't think so.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I suppose Jay Leno is well-liked because he's a republican.
> 
> --------
> Wrong again alcameron - Jay's a Democrat, from MA, one of the most blue states always. You need to do more fact checking.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> Cherf: quote For crying out loud NJG. Stop telling those who HAVE been DENIED health care that is not the case because you and your reading of the ACA says so!
> 
> They are not saying they have been denied healthcare. They are saying people over 70 will be denied healthcare because of their age which is not true. Have some compassion for the person , over 70 who might believe it and not go to the Dr for that reason.


NJG: You can read, correct?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

joycevv said:


> I can't stand it when people want to blame the economy on our current administration. Does everyone have total amnesia?


Not me - I have total recall!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> If your mother is 83 and has been denied healthcare, I would be seeing a lawyer, not chatting on a knitting web site.


Now there is a typical Democratic response .... if you don't get your way - sue!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> You prove you are right
> 
> The person that made the statement should be able to prove it as fact.


So who appointed you judge and everyone else your free research team? God bless your family and friends and anyone you associate with who must prove everything to you.

I guess this means you don't believe in Jesus since you are unable to touch the palms where the nails were driven. Try Faith it is good for the soul.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > No one has forgotten 9-11. Some just choose to make the Iraq war part of it and it isn't. It was fought based on lies and Rumsfeld and Chaney being the main ones to blame. If Bush had been able to think for himself and stand up to them, things might be different. Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and that has been proven.
> ...


Don't bother to read anything into it. It is not true.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

kacey64 said:


> A while back, I read an article that told about the subliminal messages they would be using to get obama a second term. From what I am reading here, it is obvious it is working. I can not believe the people in this country are blind to the damage this puppet has already done.Debt over 16 trillion dollars (and that doesn't include the interest that increases every second!), unemployment way over 8.1% because that figure is based on unemployment benefits. It doesn't count those who have exhausted those benefits. Homeless families increasing hourly! Prices of everything sky-rocketing. The Constitution and the rights of the people shredded! And for those of you who think you are better off because of your retirement funds, what do you think is going to happen to those funds when the crash occurs (and it is close)! Quit watching the MSM and do some research into the truth!


Thank you very much Kacey.

:thumbup: ;-) :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Birth control pills are prescribed to thousands of women every year for reasons other than preventing pregnancy. "The Pill" is often used for medical reasons - to regulate menstrual cycles, to alleviate severe PMS symptoms, etc..


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Wow. Such a lively conversation and an obviously diverse group of people exercising their first amendment rights. So, I'm throwing in my two cents worth. 
Regarding Bush and Iraq. Chemical warfare waged by Hussein on his own people starting in 1988. There were 16 UN resolutions and numerous sanctions against this regime due to WMDs and the fact that they were used and resulted in upward of 100,000 of Iranians and Iraquis is not under dispute. With 911, Hussein's continued thwarting of the UN inspectors, and bad intel the decision was made, with the complete backing of the US senate, to attack Iraq. I don't blame Bush. He went with what information he had been told. To be honest, if it hadn't been Iraq it would have been some other country in the middle east. 
Birth control and abortion. Government needs to back away. I am anti-abortion but acknowledge that it should remain a right. It disgusts me that there are so many women out there who have so little regard and knowledge of their own bodies that has resulted in the vast number of them that are performed. As women we have become complacent in our personal lives and this is one of the results. We are no longer the protectors of those who cannot protect themselves against the tyrannical but have become similar to them. Like the abusive husband that will kill a spouse thinking if I can't have them, nobody can women have become much too cavalier regarding pregnancy and it's resulting product. That of a living, breathing human. Obama, in his own words, sees it as a punishment.
On Obama, I don't dislike the man, I dislike just about every word that comes out of his mouth. He's reactionary and has commented on too many things without having heard all the facts. I don't want that in a person that professes to be my leader. Those are the actions of a hot-headed troublemaker and his propensity for doing this has created one of the most divisive America than we have ever seen. 
Medicare. We paid into it, we should get the benefits. It would be doing peachy if the politicians from both sides of the aisle would stop thinking of it as descretionary funds and replacing the money with worthless IOUs the never intend to honor. It needs restructuring. Obamacare will not make healthcare more affordable. It's just sIight of hand regarding who's paying for it. Just wait until the full 50+ additional taxes kick in full force to pay for it. There won't be death panels. There will be experts that will weigh the quality of life/life expectancy for those who are seeking care. Medical supplies are not infinite and don't say it doesn't already happen. Ask someone on an organ waiting list. 
Taxes are too high, too many people don't pay any at all. 
Education is only an investment if the parents instill a desire to learn in their kids. Too many parents don't pay attention to their kids. And that's assuming the school curriculum contains something worth teaching. 
My two cents worth is now about $5.00 worth...unless you figure in inflation.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

NJG said:


> Wrong again Nonnie as usual. I am not pro abortion nor is president Obama. We are pro choice. I pray that no one ever needs or wants an abortion, but if a woman feels it is necessary it should be her choice, not yours and not the government. I have two beautiful daughters and two awesome grand children--I would never be pro abortion. The government needs to keep their nose out of women's reproductive organs.


Oh I so agree with you but not the way you think. If you think the govermment should keep their nose out of a womens reproductive organs, then why should said govermment be paying for birth control pills and abortions ect. Yes lets keep the govermment out of this. I for one am not willing to pay for any of it especial when it is causing a death to a human being.
You can't have it both ways. So make up your mind??? I am so sick of hearing this from the left. Even the women who brought this to trail Rowe, regrets bringing up this law suit...


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Birth control pills are prescribed to thousands of women every year for reasons other than preventing pregnancy. "The Pill" is often used for medical reasons - to regulate menstrual cycles, to alleviate severe PMS symptoms, etc..


And, as such, are covered by many, many plans. The diagnosis submitted to the insurance company and the individual's coverage contract determines whether it is covered or not.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Wow. Such a lively conversation and an obviously diverse group of people exercising their first amendment rights. So, I'm throwing in my two cents worth.
> Regarding Bush and Iraq. Chemical warfare waged by Hussein on his own people starting in 1988. There were 16 UN resolutions and numerous sanctions against this regime due to WMDs and the fact that they were used and resulted in upward of 100,000 of Iranians and Iraquis is not under dispute. With 911, Hussein's continued thwarting of the UN inspectors, and bad intel the decision was made, with the complete backing of the US senate, to attack Iraq. I don't blame Bush. He went with what information he had been told. To be honest, if it hadn't been Iraq it would have been some other country in the middle east.
> Birth control and abortion. Government needs to back away. I am anti-abortion but acknowledge that it should remain a right. It disgusts me that there are so many women out there who have so little regard and knowledge of their own bodies that has resulted in the vast number of them that are performed. As women we have become complacent in our personal lives and this is one of the results. We are no longer the protectors of those who cannot protect themselves against the tyrannical but have become similar to them. Like the abusive husband that will kill a spouse thinking if I can't have them, nobody can women have become much too cavalier regarding pregnancy and it's resulting product. That of a living, breathing human. Obama, in his own words, sees it as a punishment.
> On Obama, I don't dislike the man, I dislike just about every word that comes out of his mouth. He's reactionary and has commented on too many things without having heard all the facts. I don't want that in a person that professes to be my leader. Those are the actions of a hot-headed troublemaker and his propensity for doing this has created one of the most divisive America than we have ever seen.
> ...


Right on :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Thanks, Thumper5316! Dang, girl, I couldn't have put it any better. The only reason that abortion and birth control funding is an issue at all in this election is because the Progs can't talk about OWEbama's pitiful record. It's bait and switch.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Wow. Such a lively conversation and an obviously diverse group of people exercising their first amendment rights. So, I'm throwing in my two cents worth.
> 
> So refreshing to hear from another intelligent and well spoken person who understands what the heck is going on! :thumbup:


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Thanks, Thumper5316! Dang, girl, I couldn't have put it any better. The only reason that abortion and birth control funding is an issue at all in this election is because the Progs can't talk about OWEbama's pitiful record. It's bait and switch.


Yes! :-D

I'd really like to hear from a Democrat to explain what the heck happened at the convention last night re the change of party platform on "God" and "Jerusalem."

The Chairman looked like a deer in headlights and called a formal decision of a 2/3 vote (his opinion).

2/3 vote????? Anyone in the arena or watching, including the Chairman, heard equal Yeas and Neas. So, the Chairman went ahead and recorded a vote not as decided by the Delegates but as Obama recommended.

What a disaster and embarrassing display.

I've heard several talking heads claim the Republican Party is divided. Well, there is now "proof" that the Democrat Party is divided right on the convention floor for all the world to see!

Sure would like an explanation of what transpired last night.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Thanks, Thumper5316! Dang, girl, I couldn't have put it any better. The only reason that abortion and birth control funding is an issue at all in this election is because the Progs can't talk about OWEbama's pitiful record. It's bait and switch.


Thank you 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

jzzyjacque said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > NJG said:
> ...


If republicans are poor sports that makes democrats condescending, and intolerable of others opinions


----------



## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

kacey64 said:


> A while back, I read an article that told about the subliminal messages they would be using to get obama a second term. From what I am reading here, it is obvious it is working. I can not believe the people in this country are blind to the damage this puppet has already done.Debt over 16 trillion dollars (and that doesn't include the interest that increases every second!), unemployment way over 8.1% because that figure is based on unemployment benefits. It doesn't count those who have exhausted those benefits. Homeless families increasing hourly! Prices of everything sky-rocketing. The Constitution and the rights of the people shredded! And for those of you who think you are better off because of your retirement funds, what do you think is going to happen to those funds when the crash occurs (and it is close)! Quit watching the MSM and do some research into the truth!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
I totally agree with you. My gas, electric and water bill have increased. I live in Las Vegas I have my air on at 75 - my electric bill 5 years ago was 150 to or less per summer month - I just received this month bill and it was $415.00 .... so, I agree with you. Nothing under this President is improving. How can some still defend him. I did not vote for him as I read about all the people he aligned himself with. You cannot spend your formative years with radicals and come out with a different world view. If he is re-elected we will be worse than Europe. I left Europe when I was 18 years old. I came to America because I did NOT like living in Europe ... lovely place to visit, but no thank you not for me to live. However, we are going to regret forgetting the qualities that made America a nation that people would wait YEARS to get a visa to enter. What I have accomplished in this country I could NEVER have done it in Europe ...and this is my opinion. Please don't tell me how great it is to live in Europe, I left and I am glad. No offense to anyone living in Europe. Remember I also have family still there. Actually I am the ONLY one of my family who emigrated to the USA


----------



## kiffer (Jun 3, 2011)

Ingried said:


> kiffer said:
> 
> 
> > No we are not better off.Gas has doubled, food prices are up and people can't find jobs Then to hear the president say "if you have a business you didn't build yourself". Give me a break............
> ...


Sorry you are wrong


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow. Such a lively conversation and an obviously diverse group of people exercising their first amendment rights. So, I'm throwing in my two cents worth.
> ...


Excellent!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> courier770 said:
> 
> 
> > Birth control pills are prescribed to thousands of women every year for reasons other than preventing pregnancy. "The Pill" is often used for medical reasons - to regulate menstrual cycles, to alleviate severe PMS symptoms, etc..
> ...


Right again!


----------



## Lovemygreys (Apr 4, 2011)

Whenever there is a raise in Social Security it is to cover Medicare increase.


----------



## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

The first Bush did have it all ready to go after the idiots that eventually did the deed on 9/11 but backed down and #2 Bush was going to finish the job for daddy but didn't even know who exactly did the deed so after going to the wrong place the military under Obama got Saddam and then moved on to get Bin Lauden both are dead ..but the people over there have been at war for so many years and when we pull out it will continue on ...
Birth control is a right we have as women no one or church has the right to tell women we can not do what we want with our bodies, I have 11 friends that are catholic and 9 of them took birth control the other 2 could't have children and adopted beautiful children...One had so many misscarrages that she almost died..
And the abortion thing you better believe that if some one raped me ,my daughters,or grand kids I would not stand by and make any of us be forced to to have the child, any body here ever heard of the morning after pill...
I also think and this is just my opinion that a few of the folks that were on the progressive cafe original post have changed names and location and re-envented themselves
All you die hard Republicans out there keep you head in the sand and I thank my God that I am headed toward the end of my time here on earth and that I might be leaving it to a bunch of people that believe that money and things are more important than anything else


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

nannykints said:


> The first Bush did have it all ready to go after the idiots that eventually did the deed on 9/11 but backed down and #2 Bush was going to finish the job for daddy but didn't even know who exactly did the deed so after going to the wrong place the military under Obama got Saddam and then moved on to get Bin Lauden both are dead ..but the people over there have been at war for so many years and when we pull out it will continue on ...
> Birth control is a right we have as women no one or church has the right to tell women we can not do what we want with our bodies, I have 11 friends that are catholic and 9 of them took birth control the other 2 could't have children and adopted beautiful children...One had so many misscarrages that she almost died..
> And the abortion thing you better believe that if some one raped me ,my daughters,or grand kids I would not stand by and make any of us be forced to to have the child, any body here ever heard of the morning after pill...
> I also think and this is just my opinion that a few of the folks that were on the progressive cafe original post have changed names and location and re-envented themselves
> All you die hard Republicans out there keep you head in the sand and I thank my God that I am headed toward the end of my time here on earth and that I might be leaving it to a bunch of people that believe that money and things are more important than anything else


#1 Bush was NOT president on 9/11. #2 Bush took out Saddam, not Obama...better reread your history.


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## PoodleMom (May 12, 2011)

rdejam said:


> and on that note, I'll unfollow this. I'm sorry I read and posted here.


Amen. Too many lies and unsupported "facts". People believe what they want to believe and nothing I type here will convince them that they're believing a pack of lies. I'm tired of all of the negative-ness, so I'm signing off of this topic.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

nannykints said:


> The first Bush did have it all ready to go after the idiots that eventually did the deed on 9/11 but backed down and #2 Bush was going to finish the job for daddy but didn't even know who exactly did the deed so after going to the wrong place the military under Obama got Saddam and then moved on to get Bin Lauden both are dead ..but the people over there have been at war for so many years and when we pull out it will continue on ...
> Birth control is a right we have as women no one or church has the right to tell women we can not do what we want with our bodies, I have 11 friends that are catholic and 9 of them took birth control the other 2 could't have children and adopted beautiful children...One had so many misscarrages that she almost died..
> And the abortion thing you better believe that if some one raped me ,my daughters,or grand kids I would not stand by and make any of us be forced to to have the child, any body here ever heard of the morning after pill...
> I also think and this is just my opinion that a few of the folks that were on the progressive cafe original post have changed names and location and re-envented themselves
> All you die hard Republicans out there keep you head in the sand and I thank my God that I am headed toward the end of my time here on earth and that I might be leaving it to a bunch of people that believe that money and things are more important than anything else


OMG .... I am speechless as to your thoughts, beliefs and ignorance in historical facts. I think you shouldn't be part of the cafe you are involved in.

Not sure why you thank "some" God for leaving the earth to those you stated don't think as you do. Sounds contrary to your beliefs and seems you believe you are in a minority; let's hope so.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Still waiting for a Democratic to explain the dis-functional party platform challenge ..... anyone? anyone? 

I guess it defies explanation even for a D?


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## tricia488 (Jul 26, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Still waiting for a Democratic to explain the dis-functional party platform challenge ..... anyone? anyone?
> 
> I guess it defies explanation even for a D?


Both parties are dysfunctional. It doesnt really matter who is in the office at any time. Regardless of whether the office is currently inhabited by a Republican or Democrat, the opposing party will resist because they are partisan and must take their partys position. This has been the operational system for many years now and it is unlikely to change even if the Republicans return to power. I doubt that they will but the voters will determine what happens in November. My vote will be for Obama. I do not need to explain my reasons to you or anyone else.


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## christine 47 (Oct 7, 2011)

Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.


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## Lady of the Lake (Nov 10, 2011)

Better off now. Worked hard, saved and lived within or below our means. Everything is paid for and we live on our boat in the summer, take a fall trip for 1 - 2 months, and enjoy our retirements. Haven't had to touch the savings. And we still enjoy our hobbies: yarn, books, cooking and for DH restoring his original owner '76 Chevy pickup truck. I think our trick was to know the difference between what we 'want' and what we 'need.' Living happily ever after now.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

tricia488 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Still waiting for a Democratic to explain the dis-functional party platform challenge ..... anyone? anyone?
> ...


----
Tricia, Thanks for confirming that even as a Dem and someone who voted for Obama and will again, you cannot explain the fiasco at the D convention. Instead, you turn the attention away from the original question and could not answer a direct question. I didn't ask you to explain who you will vote for or why. Per usual when faced with the facts, the Dems go into seclusion and silence.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Once again, the ever-tolerant Dems, the "party of inclusion," has shown it's true colors. At least half of those inclusive Dems booed God! Tsk tsk tsk.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Once again, the ever-tolerant Dems, the "party of inclusion," has shown it's true colors. At least half of those inclusive Dems booed God! Tsk tsk tsk.


I honestly don't understand what transpired. The vote was taken, it was obvious to everyone there the vote was at minimum a tie. So the D Chairman closed the vote and decreed a 2/3 "yeas" have it?

How is that even legal and an acceptable vote to the Delegates in the arena? Why didn't those who voted "no" appeal the Chairman's decree? They just stood there and took the run-over as gospel (no pun intended)?


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## charliesaunt (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm at peace with myself. My health is 100% better than 4 years ago. My husband is alive and his rehabilitation has gone well. My faith is as strong if not stronger. My extended family has gone through change, we have grown in size (3 new babies)....economics have changed in several of their households....loss of a job, college fees BUT knowing we are a family and are here for each other, my answer would be YES, I am personally better off than I was 4 years ago.


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## jorge7488 (Apr 21, 2012)

Well, I am not only better but getting better. I have a plan B in case I lose my job. I am not counting on 401(K) of any sort, no retirement plan from my actual job nor on the SS, because it will be gone if republicans go back into power, and the democrats will have problems trying to put it back. So I have my plan B that has started slow but steady and it is allowing me to see a better future free of financial worries, good health and lots of time regardless of how is the economy, and I am not doing illegal stuff. If you want to know how just email me at:
[email protected]


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

AMEN!!! Lady of the lake


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

NJG, Here are a couple of articles discussing comments by Dems about Repub and discussion/explanation of the Dem party platform. Perhaps you could tell me if these are true and factual, and prove to me otherwise, if not?

http://tinyurl.com/cwp99dl

http://tinyurl.com/ccly6y4


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## tulliver (Jun 5, 2012)

christine 47 said:


> Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.


 :thumbup:


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## tricia488 (Jul 26, 2011)

christine 47 said:


> Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.


 The discussion on Democrats vs. Republicans came up because the original question posted on K.P. is based upon what has become the standard question posed in the U.S. by the challenging candidate for the office of U.S. President. In 1980, Ronald Reagan presented that question to the American public when he was running for election against then-President Jimmy Carter. Reagan was elected over Carter and in every election since then, the challenging candidate asks the U.S. public whether they are better off now than they were 4 years ago (when the existing President was elected). Since the majority of people are always unhappy with their situation, the question is intended to stimulate blame against the current U.S. President as if he were solely responsible for the condition of the U.S. economy.

As you will see if you scroll back through the voluminous pages of this discussion, the discussion has devolved predictably into a referendum on who is to blame for the problems of the U.S. As a citizen of the U.K., it is understandable that you would not be aware of the hidden agenda and history of this topic question, but since this is an election year for the U.S., the topic question has political implications that are being addressed ad nauseum.


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## tricia488 (Jul 26, 2011)

Lady of the Lake said:


> Better off now. Worked hard, saved and lived within or below our means. Everything is paid for and we live on our boat in the summer, take a fall trip for 1 - 2 months, and enjoy our retirements. Haven't had to touch the savings. And we still enjoy our hobbies: yarn, books, cooking and for DH restoring his original owner '76 Chevy pickup truck. I think our trick was to know the difference between what we 'want' and what we 'need.' Living happily ever after now.


Hooray for the Lake of the Lake! Good for you! I can't say that I'm in the same position, but I congratulate you for your success!


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## tricia488 (Jul 26, 2011)

charliesaunt said:


> I'm at peace with myself. My health is 100% better than 4 years ago. My husband is alive and his rehabilitation has gone well. My faith is as strong if not stronger. My extended family has gone through change, we have grown in size (3 new babies)....economics have changed in several of their households....loss of a job, college fees BUT knowing we are a family and are here for each other, my answer would be YES, I am personally better off than I was 4 years ago.


That's great, Carole, you have identified what is truly important which is your faith and family.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

tricia488 said:


> In 1980, ... Reagan was elected over Carter and in every election since then, the challenging candidate asks the U.S. public whether they are better off now than they were 4 years ago (when the existing President was elected). Since the majority of people are always unhappy with their situation, the question is intended to stimulate blame against the current U.S. President as if he were solely responsible for the condition of the U.S. economy.
> ----------
> 
> On 9/5/12, impeached President Clinton, asked the Democratic convention attendees that very same question as being discussed in this thread, "are you better off today than 4 years ago?" The overwhelming response was "yes" by the Dems.
> ...


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

They were still Stuned that their chairman overrule their wish to keep God and Jeruselem out of their platform

Booing God really. I'll keep my faith thank you
That would be the end of me being a democrat


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## horse_gurl (Nov 29, 2011)

No, I'm 19 and still going to high school and I live with my dad who's a horder...so needless to say my self, mom and older sister (who got diagnosed with rapid cycling bipolar) are not priorities for him. I have seperation anziety from my parents. So I'm not sure if I could get a decent job right now and do school and then go to post secondary. We live on a farm and I have yet to get a drivers liscene so I can't go anywhere on my own. So right now my only "escape's" are school with the few friends I have...my horse...and knitting.


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## kiffer (Jun 3, 2011)

To all of you who told me to do my research and that I took what the Pres. Said..out. Of context then tell me why he regrets saying "if you have a business you didn't build it yourself'. That 's on the news today.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

christine 47 said:


> Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.


It came from us in the U.S., miserable and at odds with one another. Our country is in a mess, and the citizens are at each others' throats, forgetting that divided we fall. We are falling...


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## senia (Dec 11, 2011)

christine 47 said:


> Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.


My comment is, what a beautiful baby that is in your sigi in.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

kiffer said:


> To all of you who told me to do my research and that I took what the Pres. Said..out. Of context then tell me why he regrets saying "if you have a business you didn't build it yourself'. That 's on the news today.


You didn't take it out of context. He did say it and he's only sorry because it could cost him votes.
Americans built this country and we are proud of it. We work hard, pay taxes that help pay for the roads, electric plants, ect. We give with our time, talents, or money. 99% of small businesses are started by hard work and determination. Long hours, little to no pay for the right to say I built this
We vote for a man that will not bow to foreign leaders or apologize for our country we are who we are because of hard work. 
We don't need to apologize to any one.
God bless America and her citizens


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> We don't need to apologize to any one.
> God bless America and her citizens


Amen and Amen! I'm not about to take God out of my personal platform; and I don't care if in so doing casts votes against me... :-D


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## joand'5 (Aug 27, 2011)

...and all this time I thought this was a knitting forum! Boy, was I disillusioned.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

It is a knitting/crochet forum. But this section of the forum is anything we want to discuss or argue about.


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## luv2knt (Jan 25, 2012)

To everyone who cares about our constitution....some have been fortunate to not have their lifestyle changed but many have had job loss; home loss; and if the Obama medical stays, we will all have major issues to face. Vote for America.....and the people. The one thing you can do to change things is vote for Romney. He might not be who you want, but it is all we have if we want to protect the constitution and our rights.


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

I bow down to you all at my mistake that Saddam was killed after Obama took office I am 80 years old and facts sometime leves my mind as to when some thing happen .BUT Bush # 1 did try to get the bad men in the middle East but stoped short..
And I am not ignorant..but you are stupid Chref and I do not believe in "some God" I beleive in the only GOD Creater of Heaven and earth and will come again to deal with all who does not believe...
My best advice to you is to GROW UP before it is to late at least I am big enough to admit that I was wrong bet you have never in your life done that 
The Right are always right until they are WRONG...


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## pfoley (Nov 29, 2011)

Yes, we are good here. The market crash was bad, but it has very slowly made a comeback. No job worries; we are retired.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

OK...I just have to say this! I give Obama credit for one thing. HIS WIFE IS GORGEOUS! :O)


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> OK...I just have to say this! I give Obama credit for one thing. HIS WIFE IS GORGEOUS! :O)


 :thumbup: I too like her.


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## Tammy (Jan 26, 2011)

No!! 4 yrs ago I was working 60 hrs a week at least I had to leave my job due to health reasons Lymphedema ( its been a rough couple yrs getting used to the lifestyle change being forced on disability was hard but I'm doing ok. I've turned to knitting and crocheting for my therapy  its been a godsend ..


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > OK...I just have to say this! I give Obama credit for one thing. HIS WIFE IS GORGEOUS! :O)
> ...


I didn't say I like her...I said she's gorgeous! I LIKE Ann Romney 500% more. :lol:


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


I do like her. To me, she seems down to earth. 
Do I want her as the first lady? Nope. Do I want Ann Romney for the first lady? Yes! That would mean Mitt would be President!


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

nannykints said:


> maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..


??? This didn't make sense to me. :?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

nannykints said:


> maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..


Let's hear you make some snide remark about burkhas or yamulkas. That would also be right up your alley!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..
> ...


It's ignorance....to be expected from some on this forum.


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## morgansam51 (Apr 4, 2012)

A new company took over two years ago and everyone lost their jobs except me and two others. They took $3 an hour away from me and told me the job was now full-time, previously was part-time. I asked if I could have the night to think about it, no - they needed an answer within an hour. I am glad that I have a job even though my hourly rate is less. I can afford to live where I live and buy groceries and gas so I really can't complain. Although, for a long time I felt terribly guilty about still having a job. This used to be a small company where we all were like family and it was really hard to see what happened. On the other hand, in the last five years my three children have presented me with seven precious grandchildren - five boys and two girls!!! One arrived on the scene two weeks ago! Life doesn't get much better! I am definitely counting my blessings.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry it was not out of context. Besides that the woman running for the Senate in Massachusetts has said the same thing. So it appears to be a theme. Thinking of out of context, what about "wither on the vine?


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

nannykints said:


> maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..


this quote is out of order and straying into dark territory Lighten up gals


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

nannykints said:


> And I am not ignorant..but you are stupid Chref and I do not believe in "some God" I beleive in the only GOD Creater of Heaven and earth and will come again to deal with all who does not believe... \


-----your exact word was "my" God. You didn't identify the God you worship so I had to respond as I did so as not to put words in your mouth. Also, I never said you were ignorant. I said you were ignorant of historical facts.


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

This is morman undergarnets that all mormans wear thought all knew this sorry.
Bydie are burkhas or yamulkas your cousins?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree with that. 

If you disagree with someone, say what you mean, mean what you say, and don't say it meanly.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

1. In certain parts of the world, it is simple courtesy to bow when introduced or meeting another person. It is not a symbol of subjection; it is an act of courtesy. Americans have been the worst-mannered people on the globe for far too long.

2. First of all, our government is not meant to be our safety net. Where is it written in the Constitution that we are to be supported by the government. Too many people are taking advantage of our government, most of them the 1% who have the most money, to whom the so-called "Representatives" always bow when making decisions that affect the pockets and futures of the rest of us.

3. thanks, to this man that calls himself the President, more and more people are being told to come aboard.The man who occupies the Oval Office DOES NOT just "call' himself the President, he IS the president, legally elected by the citizens of this country.

4. A man with one term in the Senate and no other meaningful work beforehand to speak of has no business being in the White House. See #3. It is also noteworthy that many people who do a great deal of good in government have not had long years there to make pals of special interests and owe thousands of favors which they shaft the ordinary citizen to repay.

5. Let's face it, if you live in the USA things are going to get worse during the next 4 years with the present person still in office. Before it's over, Sweetheart, things are going to get MUCH, MUCH WORSE for the inheritors of the Reagan/Bush years. Congress let manufacturers export our jobs. Banks [with the full cooperation of the State Banking Commissions] engineered the real estate bust; and then received a bailout and raised debt interest rates and cut savings interest rates to raise their profits.

6. A person who gives the Queen of England an IPhone as a gift? Puleeze. Here you are just being petty.

7. The only chance we have is to change Presidents. Period.
NO. The only chance we have is to remove the lazy, thieves in Congress who make the laws that line their pockets and the pockets of their rich friends with OUR MONEY.

8. Have all of you on Social Security looked to see what you are going to be paying in Medicare 2 years from now? OH! I can barely afford life-saving medication AND food and a roof over my head as it is, much less ANOTHER increase in costs including health insurance and ANOTHER decrease in what that ever more expensive insurance will pay for.

FINALLY. It is usually the add-ons tacked to bills which make the worst impact on us poor taxpayers. Remember the 50% pay raise for Congress? They tacked it onto a bill to make pay for federal judges more competitive in the marketplace. Then, some shyster Congressmembers waited OUTSIDE THE HALL until they were absolutely certain that the bill could not fail to pass before they went inside and with great flourish voted against a bill that they actually supported with all their greedy little shyster hearts!

I still say that the rich get the benefits; the poor get the blame; and us working stiffs get to pay the bill! :thumbdown:


marimom said:


> Have you really read this outragious Health Care Bill? I wrote my Masters' Thesis on Ted Kennedy's Bill in the early 70's and have been following health care since then as I am a Gerontologist.
> quote]


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

senia said:


> christine 47 said:
> 
> 
> > Am I personally better off than I was 4 years ago in the UK, where did the discussion on Democrats and Republicans come from.
> ...


I agree. A doll.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Here is a short video "Words Matter" that sums up and proves in Obama's own words some of the topics brought up in this thread.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..
> ...


This might explain it Barbara. Some of the uninformed and ignorant on this forum aren't happy unless they are ridiculing and mocking.

From the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints website:

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/mormonism-101#C15


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


I loved her outfit the night she spoke.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

nannykints said:


> maybe Ann Romney will let you get some of her undergarments to wear OH you can't unless you are Morman and they let you..


-------
How very un-Christian like for you to write this. Please respect ALL religions especially your own.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> They were still Stuned that their chairman overrule their wish to keep God and Jeruselem out of their platform
> 
> Booing God really. I'll keep my faith thank you
> That would be the end of me being a democrat


It was planned and didn't matter what the vote was. Obama told them to put it back in. So it didn't matter what the vote was. But I am glad God is back in. But He never left. :thumbup: Amen Margaret. Oh by the way did anyone see Clinton bow to o? What's up with that? I only bow to ONE!


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

I diffenatly am to "ignorant" to be posting on this post...Cause it seems to me that anyone who does not agree with what some of you say is ignorant.So Long ---Farewell have a perfect life


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Cherf said:


> Here is a short video "Words Matter" that sums up and proves in Obama's own words some of the topics brought up in this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Barbara Ann said:
> ...


Yes, It was beautiful!


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > nannykints said:
> ...


Thank You! I read the link and now I know.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

nannykints said:


> I diffenatly am to "ignorant" to be posting on this post...Cause it seems to me that anyone who does not agree with what some of you say is ignorant.So Long ---Farewell have a perfect life


 :thumbup:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a short video "Words Matter" that sums up and proves in Obama's own words some of the topics brought up in this thread.
> ...


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

These statements are in extremely poor taste, to say the least. They reveal an antagonism and ignorance far above and beyond what is proper. If you have to talk this way, please do it in texts to your cohorts who feel and act the same way you do! :thumbdown:


Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > nannykints said:
> ...


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## notwen (May 22, 2012)

Please carry on with the discussion - am learning a lot about American politics of which I knew very little except what is published in our press. Fascinating.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

notwen said:


> Please carry on with the discussion - am learning a lot about American politics of which I knew very little except what is published in our press. Fascinating.


Dear notwen I'm orig.from Dumbarton this conversation is bringing out the very worst in discussions Americans are not usually as nasty as this Stay with us there are lots of good thing here too


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

notwen said:


> Please carry on with the discussion - am learning a lot about American politics of which I knew very little except what is published in our press. Fascinating.


You are reading opinions and some facts from members of both political parties who take part in US elections.

If you want to read the "Progressive" (Democrats) viewpoint of members on KP, there is a forum as a subset of KP. Follow here:
http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-104-1.html

Be forewarned, that in the Prog forum there several members of Canadian citizenship and European, etc. so those opinions have no bearing on American elections as those folks are not allowed to vote in the US elections.

If you want the Republican viewpoint you could read from "The Blaze" or follow Fox News, The Daily Standard, etc.

BTW: The leader of the Progressive forum loves my Avatar because she truly understands its background and purpose! 

Enjoy and welcome to the discussion!


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > nannykints said:
> ...


Hope no one clicks on that link it has a virus or something in it my securty did a pop up on it ...Just wanted to see what it said..


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I had no problem with it.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

nannykints said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Barbara Ann said:
> ...


No virus when I've clicked it. Must be YOUR comoputer.


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## nannykints (Jul 7, 2011)

Or you may find out later...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

nannykints said:


> I diffenatly am to "ignorant" to be posting on this post...Cause it seems to me that anyone who does not agree with what some of you say is ignorant.So Long ---Farewell have a perfect life


I can not believe what you posted. You said you believe in God? Or do I have this wrong??? If you do how could you be so bold as to post that picture, and comment like you have?? 
I just can't believe what you did. 
Where is your mind??? I may not have a perfect life, but I am sure not going to agree with what you said or did. 
What you did was ignorant as you yourself have proclaimed.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

nannykints said:


> I bow down to you all at my mistake that Saddam was killed after Obama took office I am 80 years old and facts sometime leves my mind as to when some thing happen .BUT Bush # 1 did try to get the bad men in the middle East but stoped short..
> And I am not ignorant..but you are stupid Chref and I do not believe in "some God" I beleive in the only GOD Creater of Heaven and earth and will come again to deal with all who does not believe...
> My best advice to you is to GROW UP before it is to late at least I am big enough to admit that I was wrong bet you have never in your life done that
> The Right are always right until they are WRONG...


I agree, Nannyknits - it IS big of you to admit when you're wrong. And we all might as well admit it - because we're all wrong sometimes. Besides, we're talking about "stuff" - issues - not about each other. If we don't agree on an issue, that doesn't mean we can't like one another. I know that I can get very, very intense about some issues, so I try to be gentle. I'm pro-life, and my dear, sweet, kind mother was pro-choice. After all, she had been through the tragic loss of a baby with spina bifida. That difference never came between us. Disagreeing on how we want our health care does NOT make us enemies. We are fellow citizens, in this together. The votes will decide, and we'll have to either rejoice or buck up and face the music. Some of us will have to just look ahead to the next election. No matter who wins, if we have our faith and our family, we'll manage. We can do it!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<I agree - it is big of you to admit when you're wrong. And we might as well admit it - because we're all wrong sometimes. Besides, we're talking about "stuff" - issues - not about each other. If we don't agree on an issue, that doesn't mean we can't like one another. I know that I can get very, very intense about some issues, so I try to be gentle. I'm pro-life, and my dear, sweet, kind mother was pro-choice. That never came between us. Disagreeing on how we want our health care does NOT make us enemies. We are fellow citizens, in this together. The votes will decide, and we'll have to either rejoice or buck up and face the music. Some of us will have to just look ahead to the next election. No matter who wins, if we have our faith and our family, we'll manage. We can do it!>

Well said!


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

My daughter was wearing an election button the other day--

"Billionaires for Romney"

It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > I diffenatly am to "ignorant" to be posting on this post...Cause it seems to me that anyone who does not agree with what some of you say is ignorant.So Long ---Farewell have a perfect life
> ...


Picture? I missed that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> nannykints said:
> 
> 
> > I diffenatly am to "ignorant" to be posting on this post...Cause it seems to me that anyone who does not agree with what some of you say is ignorant.So Long ---Farewell have a perfect life
> ...


Picture? I missed that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <I agree - it is big of you to admit when you're wrong. And we might as well admit it - because we're all wrong sometimes. Besides, we're talking about "stuff" - issues - not about each other. If we don't agree on an issue, that doesn't mean we can't like one another. I know that I can get very, very intense about some issues, so I try to be gentle. I'm pro-life, and my dear, sweet, kind mother was pro-choice. That never came between us. Disagreeing on how we want our health care does NOT make us enemies. We are fellow citizens, in this together. The votes will decide, and we'll have to either rejoice or buck up and face the music. Some of us will have to just look ahead to the next election. No matter who wins, if we have our faith and our family, we'll manage. We can do it!>
> 
> Well said!


Thanks to a KPer in Roswell, GA from a KPer in Lilburn, GA!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <I agree - it is big of you to admit when you're wrong. And we might as well admit it - because we're all wrong sometimes. Besides, we're talking about "stuff" - issues - not about each other. If we don't agree on an issue, that doesn't mean we can't like one another. I know that I can get very, very intense about some issues, so I try to be gentle. I'm pro-life, and my dear, sweet, kind mother was pro-choice. That never came between us. Disagreeing on how we want our health care does NOT make us enemies. We are fellow citizens, in this together. The votes will decide, and we'll have to either rejoice or buck up and face the music. Some of us will have to just look ahead to the next election. No matter who wins, if we have our faith and our family, we'll manage. We can do it!>
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Picture back on page 37.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> Dear notwen I'm orig.from Dumbarton this conversation is bringing out the very worst in discussions Americans are not usually as nasty as this Stay with us there are lots of good thing here too


Scottishlass (love that!) Don't be concerned. The conversations and critiques in this thread are "NOTHING" compared to what really goes in America every day, between citizens, families. friends and the work place during every election cycle!

Debate is good to sharpen who you are and what you believe.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nannyknits
I want to apolozize for imply that you are ignorant. 
As a chrisitan I ask for your forgiveness.
I do so hate when others asail ones beliefs.
They did that to John F. Kennedy I did not like it then nor do I like it now.
But the way I reacted was wrong. 
So if you can find it in your heart please forgive me.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Picture back on page 37.


What I find really weird is the undergarments most people know about and so what? Millions of American men wear tee shirts and undergarments everyday albeit the styling different, the purpose is the same. If chosen to remind oneself of your religious commitment more power to you!

Women pay upwards of $40 for Spanx that look exactly like the woman's undergarments. What woman hasn't wished she wore a liner and/or in years past, a girdle, or camisole under her formal occasion dress, blouse, dress or suit coat to protect from underarm stains and to put forth a better shape. How much do we pay to look good and when forgotten pay a fee to have the stains dry cleaned and removed.

I studied with members of LS for about six weeks many years ago. While it isn't my choice, it is not for me to judge anyone who believes in the faith they choose.

The person who posted the picture did so as a copy/paste from the Progressive Forum group who insulted the Romneys and their religion for have such undergarments for their congregation.

I would sooner believe the Dems would like to offer such to their flock as something you are entitled to as being part of a like minded group!

Are the Dems really discussing underwear as the hot topics of this Presidential election? Yep, go figure!

I would like to add when I visited Hindu temples and monk's temples in Thailand I wore a skirt over my shorts as asked of me without hesitation. When I lived in Japan and entered Buddhist temples or Japanese homes and public buildings, I removed my shoes as asked without being told. I did so in each instance to respect the beliefs of others, not my beliefs.

I have no concept of why the KP Dems would not do the same.

I thought the Dems slogan is the party of "acceptance."


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

I really think we have all had blessings that we are proud of.
But the truth is most Americans are having a rough time not of our own making.
November is coming and I pray to God that the change is made to keep this country great are coming with it. 
If you have looked with an open mind at Romneys worth he made it. He gave his fathers money to charity. He is a very likable person in his actions and attitude. There is a great lack of arrogance around him and Anne. They take nothing's as being deserved but as an honor.
I have never seen a picture of him with the contempt and arrogance the is overly obvious on Obamas face.
We need a president that honors our constitution not one that's states it gets in his way.
I have grandchildren that I pray are raised in a country that is free 
Vote on November for our continue freedom 
God bless this country


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> I really think we have all had blessings that we are proud of.
> But the truth is most Americans are having a rough time not of our own making.
> November is coming and I pray to God that the change is made to keep this country great are coming with it.
> If you have looked with an open mind at Romneys worth he made it. He gave his fathers money to charity. He is a very likable person in his actions and attitude. There is a great lack of arrogance around him and Anne. They take nothing's as being deserved but as an honor.
> ...


Very nice, Nonnie.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> scottishlass said:
> 
> 
> > Dear notwen I'm orig.from Dumbarton this conversation is bringing out the very worst in discussions Americans are not usually as nasty as this Stay with us there are lots of good thing here too
> ...


Very good, Cherf. We don't want Scottishlass to get discouraged. It's so nice having her here.


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## CMCray (Mar 2, 2012)

Please please please people VOTE - and if that hope & change isn't working for you VOTE Republican...


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Thank you bonbf3.
I am not always right but I am not always wrong as some have state in this debate.
I love this country and want my grandchildren soon to be four to grow up with principles and respect so lacking in today's society.
I am passionate in my beliefs on faith, family and this country.
I get tired of arrogant, condisending people that think they have all the awnsers and are not open to anything but my parents did it so I should too.
Our freedoms are in jeapordy. When a party boos God, the outcome can not be good. We the people need to strive to bring God back to everything we do regardless of the less than 15% that want him gone. How can professed Christians sit back and not utter a cry. They majority should rule not the minority on this
Please wake up America before its to late
Again God bless his great country


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## flockie (Nov 14, 2011)

As a matter of fact, yes I am. I lost my job in March 2008 after 35 years with the same company. I received unemployment for 99 weeks, but even with extensions the state of Illinois only pays out for a maximum of 99 weeks. I sent out nearly 400 resumes, applied at temp agencies, went to job fairs. I went to culinary school to train as a pastry chef... but the funds ran out. I learned enough to bake at home and sell to neighbors, friends and people from my church. Someone I 'met' here on KP was familiar with the fact that I have been unemployed for over 4 years. When she had an accident and was off from work, she contacted me to seek an interview with her boss to work temporarily until her return. After about 5 weeks, I was offered a full time position and I get to work everyday with my friend from KP. 

Basically, YES! I am way better off than I was 4 years ago.

Flockie


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

Please Ladies...
Let's get back to talking about knitting, and other pleasant
subjects.
Remember, it's not proper to talk about politics or religion
because everyone has their own views, and none of them are either right or wrong.
We're all friends, right?


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

Sheeesh, I thought we were classy ladies/gentlemen! I guess that is why religion and politics are not discussed among friends. Those who believe, believe; those who choose not to believe, will not believe no matter what the facts or what anyone else says. Lesson learned (for me).


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## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

joycevv said:


> My daughter was wearing an election button the other day--
> 
> "Billionaires for Romney"
> 
> It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets!


Have anyone taken a walk down a hall in a very efficient large hospital lately? Well I have. Practically every wing or section had a plaque with the donators acknowledgment. There are also complete hospitals donated by an individual. Yes...they make donations for tax reasons but you cant deduct it all...limits apply.

I would rather the wealthy use this because if the government took more taxes and spent it for our benefit the health care institution they would build would close down in the red after a few years. The private hospital board works to make it successful and improve with new ways to treat patients.

I was a federal worker and can tell you it is not most worker doing wrong...but it is the congress not making regulations that are reasonable and applicable. Vote reasonably. There is only so much sugar to hand out. I have seen way too many people in my area taking advantage of the system with no conscience that it is wrong. Morals are at a low and I think we need to tighten up. Get your ducks in a row. It is ok to have differences but not ok to be mean.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Though I can see your point, those topics were the reason that the thread was started. And during a time of extreme political correctness, silence is consent.


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## Susie cue (Apr 6, 2011)

No we are worse off we both had to retire due to ill
health

susie cue


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## azmoonbugs (Dec 2, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> Sheeesh, I thought we were classy ladies/gentlemen! I guess that is why religion and politics are not discussed among friends. Those who believe, believe; those who choose not to believe, will not believe no matter what the facts or what anyone else says. Lesson learned (for me).


those who are convinced beyond their will
are of the same opinion still


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## azmoonbugs (Dec 2, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> Sheeesh, I thought we were classy ladies/gentlemen! I guess that is why religion and politics are not discussed among friends. Those who believe, believe; those who choose not to believe, will not believe no matter what the facts or what anyone else says. Lesson learned (for me).


those who are convinced beyond their will
are of the same opinion still


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

wlk4fun647 said:


> Please Ladies...
> Let's get back to talking about knitting, and other pleasant
> subjects.
> Remember, it's not proper to talk about politics or religion
> ...


Yes I agree :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This is the "General Chit-Chat (non-knitting talk)" section. Key words "non knitting talk". Anything can be discussed!

If you don't want to read it, then don't open a discussion topic, that you don't want to read about.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I agree

But here is a question I have never been able to answer: Why do conservative women allow themselves to be bullied into the "why can't we get along?" mentality? Why do we feel that if we provide an opinion and people disagree that we must back off? I am not talking about being screaming and irrational lunatics, but when you do not respectfully express your thoughts, you allow the opposing view to win by default. Also, not politely expressing yourself can make the people of like minds feel isolated.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I agree
> 
> But here is a question I have never been able to answer: Why do conservative women allow themselves to be bullied into the "why can't we get along?" mentality? Why do we feel that if we provide an opinion and people disagree that we must back off? I am not talking about being screaming and irrational lunatics, but when you do not respectfully express your thoughts, you allow the opposing view to win by default. Also, not politely expressing yourself can make the people of like minds feel isolated.


Yes you have a valid point


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## thegrape (Nov 11, 2011)

I have scrolled past this post several times, read it and moved on. This morning as I scrolled past it brought a response from me. YES I AM BETTER OFF NOW THAN 4 YEARS AGO. And it has nothing to do with politics but from lessons learned. As the economics of this world sank I watched my husband lose work (he is self employed electrician), my 401K disappeared by 50%, and financially we struggled. But we learned to live within our means which we should have done all along, we learned to be satisfied with what we had. We stopped using credit cards just because "I want that". And we've discovered how many miles you can put on a vehicle, you don't have to have a new one every three years. And this will be really unpopular but, it increased our faith in God who provided our daily needs.


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## jeannietta (Mar 14, 2011)

Damn right I am. Our retirement account is double what it was 4 years ago, my 25 year old son has health insurance and I can buy a car made in the USA - thank you President Obama.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

What I would like to thank President Obama for:

Health Insurance premiums have jumped 150%

Gas prices have doubled (and living in a rural area I must
drive 20+ miles to get to a store $$$$$$$)

Groceries, especially fresh produce, are becoming a luxury

Loss of religious freedom

Happy that your son has insurance (subsidized with my taxes)and would love to know what car is totally created, machined and assembled in the USA. But if it runs on electricity, can't use it, not a good enough charge for me to buy milk.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

jeannietta said:


> Damn right I am. Our retirement account is double what it was 4 years ago, my 25 year old son has health insurance and I can buy a car made in the USA - thank you President Obama.


Obama didn't do that.


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

Love your attitude.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> Please Ladies...
> Let's get back to talking about knitting, and other pleasant
> subjects.
> Remember, it's not proper to talk about politics or religion
> ...


Who determined that it's not proper to talk politics or religion? Healthy debate is good. Stimulates the mind and, heck, you might learn something.


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## plainjane8283 (Aug 23, 2012)

Lovethelake, When Pres. Bush took office, my health care insurance was $176. When he left office, it was $1,022.00. A year ago my insurance monthly payment came down to $535.00. It's in the math....that's my proof. I can also stay with my insurance carrier because the Affordable Health Care (Obamacares) does not allow the health insurance to throw me off due to illness.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I agree
> 
> But here is a question I have never been able to answer: Why do conservative women allow themselves to be bullied into the "why can't we get along?" mentality? Why do we feel that if we provide an opinion and people disagree that we must back off? I am not talking about being screaming and irrational lunatics, but when you do not respectfully express your thoughts, you allow the opposing view to win by default. Also, not politely expressing yourself can make the people of like minds feel isolated.


I've noticed this also. I think it's because the progs are SO loud, SO strident, SO shrill, and yes, SO nasty in their responses that conservatives, who by definition avoid outlandish and unpleasant confrontations, just back off. Just as an example, I've noticed that if a topic is clearly left-leaning, few folks bother to post the "I thought this wasn't a political site" type of thing. But if it's conservative? Katy, bar the door! Why? I think Conservatives are less likely to blast back. But the progressives are happy to rip you a new one, with no thought for anyone else's feelings. When was the last time you heard a conservative play the race card? Yet the progressives do it early and often, and feel perfectly justified in doing so. My hope is that those of us who want to see a change in the direction of this wonderful country stand up at the ballot box in November. Illigitimi noncarborundum!! (Don't let the b****rds wear you down!)


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Job report for August was just released by DOL. Unemployment down from 8.3% to 8.1%. 96,00 jobs created last month. That sounds great, right? Well NO, when you consider that 368,00 people have dropped out of the job market and are no longer looking for work. They are now on the dole. I wonder if any of those 368,000 would say they're better off now than four years ago.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Good for you,

Mine went up from 300 to almost 500. Maybe it is because I am self insured and have no work unions to help me. That is my math and my reality. I have had no illness in three years other than a sinus infection, so other than Obama Care, I have no other reason. I can't get it lowered either. I have to pay 5,000 for an illness before they kick in. 

Off to spend $40 in gas to get my groceries.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > I agree
> ...


Succinct, eloquent and OH so true Thank you Carol! (especially for the Latin "translation") :lol:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I agree
> 
> But here is a question I have never been able to answer: Why do conservative women allow themselves to be bullied into the "why can't we get along?" mentality? Why do we feel that if we provide an opinion and people disagree that we must back off? I am not talking about being screaming and irrational lunatics, but when you do not respectfully express your thoughts, you allow the opposing view to win by default. Also, not politely expressing yourself can make the people of like minds feel isolated.


That's the plan. I've found that those in a "progressive" camp feel superior, morally and intellectually, and endeavor to squash any opposing opinions or views. When one disagrees with them they are told they are racist, mean, stingy, naive, hateful, etc. That way their voice is the only one to be heard.

It reminds me of the elite "mean girls" mentality in school where they would pick you apart an negate you as a person if you didn't look like them, talk like them, or think like them.

I have a voice, an opinion, and a right. I will exercise it. And I just might learn something new if I keep an open mind and listen as well. If nobody speaks what's to be heard?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Though I can see your point, those topics were the reason that the thread was started. And during a time of extreme political correctness, silence is consent.


Wise words.


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## scrubsewer (Oct 18, 2011)

Yes.
I better off, my stash of yarn, Fabric is larger. SOOOOO I've got to be better off.
scrubsewer


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

scrubsewer said:


> Yes.
> I better off, my stash of yarn, Fabric is larger. SOOOOO I've got to be better off.
> scrubsewer


I love your little alligators, Scrubsewer! :lol:


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## scrubsewer (Oct 18, 2011)

Thank You.
The Alligator scarfs are busy going. Soon it will be winter here and we are getting ready. The Angry Birds Hats and tissue mates are a selling paitr.
scrubsewer


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Though I can see your point, those topics were the reason that the thread was started. And during a time of extreme political correctness, silence is consent.
> ...


I agree whole heartedly. When you are told you are wrong every time you say something you stop talking but most of this topic has stopped those because they have not been able to stop us. No one with their thoughts need to sqwack as much as they do. I'm tired of being called names because I do think we need to help everyone.
They also pick and choose what they want to respond to because they don't have any answers to most questions.
This has been a very enlightening debate but their rudeness will not change anyone's mind or opinion


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


They don't want debate. They want acquiescence. And are willing to call anyone names if they don't get it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

I had a good chuckle this morning. I was watching CNN and one of their commentators was describing his impression of both conventions as:

DNC = pep rally

RNC = intense business meeting.

I can't find too much fault with his observations. But then again, I didn't watch much of either. Neither candidate said how they would achieve what they stated. Just the usual over simplifications. I hope the debates get into more detail on their actual plans, otherwise, why bother holding one?


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


Reading back through the many pages of this thread, it is obvious the name calling and disrespect is coming from both sides of the fence. It has been observed by social scientists that a human finds it much easier to commit harmful acts towards persons depersonalized as "that woman", "that man", "they" or "those people". 
If you recognize yourself in my previous statement, perhaps reading scripture from the New Testament on how to treat others would be time well-spent.

grouch...grouch...grump


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

We don't need to name names because if you have read this thread you know who they are


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## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
> If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
> childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


Do you seriously think the Republicans are going to take away your birth control? Seriously!??! And abortion will never be illegal in this country again, no matter who gets elected. This whole "war on women" has been ginned up by the left to draw attention away from OWEbama's abyssmal record on the economy. Wake up!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
> If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
> childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


Women aren't losing their choice of birth control methods. There are many choices out there. I do object to paying for them. If a women wants to have intercourse, fine. She wants to use birth control, fine. Just don't expect me to pay for it. Same goes for an abortion. If a woman wants one (it is still legal), for whatever reason, fine. Again, don't expect me to pay for it. It's time people take responsibility for what they want to do, are going to do and have done. In the case of rape/incest, many of the rapists are not poor or homeless. They can be ordered by the court to pay for the abortion, if one is desired.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
> If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
> childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


I agree. As one who was on the forefront of the woman's movement since the early 70s I don't want us to go backwards. I do see that we are losing sight of what our goals were. Then women were chastised and frowned upon if they worked outside the home. Now they are frowned upon and chastised if they don't. We should be able to make our decisions but also accept that we need to accept the results of those decisions.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> ...


Excellent points.
We wanted to have the choice of working outside the Home now we have no choice but to do so and should get paid equally
for equal work.
Since Men do not get pregnant and cannot die in Childbirth, NO Man should be involved in any decision regarding pregnancy.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

You are so right CarolfromTx. Made up
Pro-life is a choice we made because if our faith beliefs
I also don't want to have to answe to God for taking a life he created. There are many people who would love to have children and not enough babies to go around. It's sad that people are given them that don't want them


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Nonnie

I agree it is sad people who don't want children are given responsibility for the precious lives. Unlike you, I am willing to answer to God for a life taken by abortion. 

A few years ago I was helping a woman leave her abusive husband. She was motivated by the fact her husband raped and impregnated their 10-year old daughter. It also came out he was raping the 9-year old and the 6-year old. The minister of their church opposed the woman leaving because according to him, God gave the woman to her husband for all eternity and for better or for worse. A minister justifying the extreme abuse and criminal behavior dropped my jaw nearly to the ground.

The minister also opposed an immediate abortion recommended by the girl's pediatrician. The doctor said the girl's body was not able to sustain a pregnancy. Bowing to the pressure of the minister, the woman went back to her husband. The girl also bowed to the pressure of the minister and continued the pregnancy. The minister said the pregnancy was the result of the b*st*rd being used as divine instrument for the will of God so ending the pregnancy was an unforgivable sin.

In the second trimester, the girl's uterus burst. Making burial arrangements for that girl and her unborn fetus was heart-wrenching. I would happily confront God and even yank on his beard to defend an abortion of that fetus. I am convinced the girl would be attending middle school instead of rotting in the ground if an abortion had taken place.

And I will add nothing more to this thread because I am soooo off topic


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
> If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
> childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


You have your opinion, and I feel bound by my conscience to express mine. I do not believe in abortion. It has become abortion on demand, allowing partial birth abortions, late-term abortions, and allowing babies born alive during abortion to die. I don't believe we have the right to take a human life - either innocent babies in the womb or horrible criminals. I might want to, but I don't think it's my right. We agree on a lot of things - as you said, "if only all children were loved and wanted...if only this were a perfect world...if only..." Just those words tell me you are a kind and loving person. I hope you aren't hurt by my disagreeing with you on this.

Bonnie (bonbf3)


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Mojave all I'm saying is that is my believe Other people have to make their choices and live with them. I am pro life not pro choice my decision 
Unfortunately there are men in this world who think they can do anything they want. I hope he is in jail and has to live with his deed every day. It is also sad that men like that are never sorry But answer to God they will
The mother made her choice after listening to others too. Sad but true. What a horrible life to live. As I said before men can be disgusting and do horrible things to those they claim to love


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > wlk4fun647 said:
> ...


Can't say that men should have no decision regarding pregnancy. As the the mother of three sons they are not insignificant in regards to any pregnancy. It should be a respectful discussion and decision on the part of both parties. However, I have warned all of them that they hold no power as to what the result of any pregnancy is and to choose their partners and spouses wisely. Just as there are a lot of creepy males out there, there are just as many creepy females out there as well. We are not all wonderful people, male and female alike.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<there are just as many creepy females>

AMEN! Actually, I would say there are more!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> to lose their choice as far as birth control goes, and I don't think I have the right to deny a woman an abortion if she feels it is the right solution to her situation...
> If men were more proactive, instead of placing the burden of
> childbearing to women, and children weren't homeless or murdered by "boyfriends" of single mothers... if only all children were loved and wanted... if only this were a perfect world... if only...


It is not about losing their choice it is about taxpayers that don't believe in it. I don't want to pay for someone else's birth control or their abortion. Omabacare says my taxes will have to pay for it. I don't believe in abortion!


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> ...


Solo, I totally agree--do what you want but don't expect me to pay for it. However, in the case of rape or incest, I would be more lenient...You can get a judgment against someone but collecting it is another matter. I know.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

joycevv said:


> My daughter was wearing an election button the other day--
> 
> "Billionaires for Romney"
> 
> It will be interesting to see how many votes he gets!


Probably "all" the billionaires out there including the Democratic ones!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> November is coming and I pray to God that the change is made to keep this country great are coming with it.
> 
> -----
> Agreed! I believe it is obvious now the only Hope IS change!
> ...


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > November is coming and I pray to God that the change is made to keep this country great are coming with it.
> ...


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

flockie said:


> I received unemployment for 99 weeks, but even with extensions the state of Illinois only pays out for a maximum of 99 weeks.


-----
"ONLY" 99 weeks!!??? No wonder we now have a $16 T deficit.

I feel for you, I do. My husband, retired military veteran now, has been out of work for more than 2 years. He has gone on probably hundreds of interviews and no offer.

However, the US taxpayers (approx 40%) of employed taxpayers cannot possible afford to cover up to 60% of the unemployed or won't work, or cannot work citizens.

To be able to receive nearly two years of unemployment compensation and to state that you are "only" entitled to 99 weeks pay makes me crazy. Historical data shows the majority of folks who come off welfare find work within the few weeks just before the welfare payments stop. Survival and pride are great motivators. That is why it is so important for Obama NOT to take the work requirement out of Welfare as he attempted to do. (Congress is in the process of stopping that Executive skirmish).

I, know, the economy is so miserable that many cannot find work even in 99 weeks; I get it; my hubby is still unemployed too.

This is why I say it is obvious that we need a leader and a change of our President; one who can make a difference and not continue us all on the road to financial ruin.

I'm happy you found work!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> Please Ladies...
> Let's get back to talking about knitting, and other pleasant
> subjects.
> Remember, it's not proper to talk about politics or religion
> ...


----
We can be friends and discuss anything with one another. Socializing is a human trait that separates us from all other things.


----------



## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> ...


Now, let me say, I'm NOT saying that I am for abortion, but
I AM FOR a woman's RIGHT TO HAVE ONE! I am also for
birth control... as the alternive is 18 years of public aid for
the results, and many of these poor children aren't even wanted... What's better? Paying a few dollars a month for
a prescription, or the Public Aid for 18 years??????
If you were from a large city, you'd know what these poor
kids have to put up with in the little lives... crummy housing
, decrepid schools, gang infested neighorbhoods... and that's the children who have a home!!! We're not talking about Mayberry here...


----------



## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

Cherf said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > Please Ladies...
> ...


Some of these discussions were getting quite heated, and
angry... almost name calling. I don't call that "friendly discussions"... Let's stick to knitting!!!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > wlk4fun647 said:
> ...


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> And during a time of extreme political correctness, silence is consent.


Or silence is golden!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thegrape said:


> And this will be really unpopular but, it increased our faith in God who provided our daily needs.


Not unpopular to me!!!! I'm thrilled you feel that way - I do too!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ... and would love to know what car is totally created, machined and assembled in the USA.


Me too - what car? I used to drive an Oldsmobile but those aren't made any more.

Now we have two Hondas in our family; best quality for our money in our price range.

I would have loved to buy American if American and of quality and value.

GM stock is around $26/share; needs to get to ~$53/share just for the US taxpayer to break even before getting our money back! Don't see that happening. :thumbdown:


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

plainjane8283 said:


> Lovethelake, When Pres. Bush took office, my health care insurance was $176. When he left office, it was $1,022.00. A year ago my insurance monthly payment came down to $535.00. It's in the math....that's my proof. I can also stay with my insurance carrier because the Affordable Health Care (Obamacares) does not allow the health insurance to throw me off due to illness.


Just hold on. Your premium increase notice will be arriving soon enough.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I have a voice, an opinion, and a right. I will exercise it. And I just might learn something new if I keep an open mind and listen as well. If nobody speaks what's to be heard?


Well done thumper and Ditto! :thumbup:


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

mojave said:


> It has been observed by social scientists that a human finds it much easier to commit harmful acts towards persons depersonalized as "that woman", "that man", "they" or "those people".
> If you recognize yourself in my previous statement, perhaps reading scripture from the New Testament on how to treat others would be time well-spent.


Oh, mojave! I cannot recognize myself in your statement because 
1) you didn't use any pronouns, only words like "yourself" and "others" and 
2) you don't use a pronoun to identify your location.

Are you one of those of whom you speak?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Off to spend $40 in gas to get my groceries.


That's good reason to move to your state! I pay $58 to fill my tank for a sedan, not any SUV!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

scrubsewer said:


> Yes.
> I better off, my stash of yarn, Fabric is larger. SOOOOO I've got to be better off.
> scrubsewer


In that case, so am I! :-D


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Since Men do not get pregnant and cannot die in Childbirth, NO Man should be involved in any decision regarding pregnancy.


This is about the most ridiculous quote I've heard on this topic. One of America's most problematic areas is the lack of men/fathers in the home (lack of leadership). So, you'd prefer Men stay out of the family AND family planning. ..... God help us.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Since Men do not get pregnant and cannot die in Childbirth, NO Man should be involved in any decision regarding pregnancy.
> ...


Doesn't say much about us women, does it?


----------



## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

No, the message is that WOMEN are the ones who die in childbirth and have to worry about birth control, so it should be WOMEN who have the final sayso on WOMEN"S
issues, NOT men.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> No, the message is that WOMEN are the ones who die in childbirth and have to worry about birth control, so it should be WOMEN who have the final sayso on WOMEN"S
> issues, NOT men.


Ok, last I knew it takes two to Tango; so MEN and WOMEN can take responsibility for birth control, and in America women do have the right to decide on "their" issues.

Unless, perhaps, you are discussing the admin panels who may be men making decisions on women under Obamacare.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> No, the message is that WOMEN are the ones who die in childbirth and have to worry about birth control, so it should be WOMEN who have the final sayso on WOMEN"S
> issues, NOT men.


That's why they created their invitation only group. Nobody to disagree with their 'progressive' (I.e. superior) ideals. Also, they can talk about all of us 'regressive' (I.e. backwards thinking) women without any push-back.

I disagree. Given your logic, since men are, statistically, the ones that give their lives to protect us women and their children then, since the statistics are in favor of more men dying, they should have a greater say. I think it should be a respectful decision between the two since it takes the two for the pregnancy to take place.

Given your scenario it is nothing more than a reverse of the directive of what we previously had. Even given yours is female in favor of male it is still a directive and not in line of what we, as women, were striving for in equality. This is not equal but all or nothing. It makes us as no better.


----------



## wlk4fun647 (Apr 17, 2011)

Forget it... I'm talking about OUR RIGHT to DECIDE what happens to OUR BODIES>>> NOT A WOMAN OR MAN THING...
Did you ever notice that men can get Viagra, but birth control is not covered under many insurance policies???
That's really fair, right?


----------



## scotslass (Mar 18, 2011)

Honestly, No .. I bought a house in 2007, I had to give it up last year. No one would refinance me, my loan was through Idaho Housing and they got nasty when I asked to refinance. So it went through foreclosure :-(
Everything has gone up, except income. I scrape by paycheck to paycheck, I do the best I can for my girls. I couldn't even buy them one outfit for the start of school or new shoes. It is very sad, but at least we have a roof over our head and I do have a job.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > Please Ladies...
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> Forget it... I'm talking about OUR RIGHT to DECIDE what happens to OUR BODIES>>> NOT A WOMAN OR MAN THING...
> Did you ever notice that men can get Viagra, but birth control is not covered under many insurance policies???
> That's really fair, right?


I see your point. On the other hand, if a person is adult enough to be sexually active, then he/she should be adult enough to accept the responsibility of paying for his/her own birth control. My married children certainly don't ask me to pay for theirs. The very idea is funny! If I'm paying for someone's birth control, then I'd like everybody to pitch in for my special tooth pastes - I like to use three different kinds every day: one to strengthen, one to protect, and one to whiten. ??? (I'm not making fun of the argument, just trying to lighten it a bit.)


----------



## gagesmom (Oct 14, 2011)

I would have to say yes. 4 yrs ago at this time my late father in law had just passed away. It was a hard time for my husband as he and his dad were the best of friends and did everything together. My son was 3 and didn't understand why Bumpa wasn't coming home. I was unemployed.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Actually, other mammals have social groups too that nurture and care for each other much like we do. National Geographic, BBC, PBS and Nature channel have exceptional documentaries on our ancesters the marvelous, and fascinating apes. All God's creation is amazing and we owe Charles Darwin so much for his studies and classifications of animal and plant life on our planet. God thought of everything and blessed us so all his creatures could evolve and live on our ever changing planet. What a beautiful creation is this Universe we live in. I am very fortunate that my life is going very well as I know it is not that way for everyone.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > And during a time of extreme political correctness, silence is consent.
> ...


Tell that to Jews or their sympathizers during WW2. I will speak my opinion.


----------



## Blknites (Sep 8, 2012)

Absolutely NO! 

The number of unemployed is over 25%. Inflation has increased 18%
gas is over $4.50 a gallon; there are lines at the gas stations and there is no reason for them go away or get shorter.

I have not been able to work since Feb 2010. Huge truck caravans exceed the speed limits of 70 mph. 

Why can we not control their speed? We did during the Carter years at 55mph.

Fortunately, I have been able to move my family back in with my parents for a place to eat and sleep. But, even my parents are getting very tired of this arrangement.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Reading this morning , I had a thought 

I did not know that you could have a group "by invitation only", always learning. I guess if there needed to be a private conversation about something so personal and someone needed help, could be a lifesaver for a person (suicide, deep grief, betral, 12 stepper....) That being said, why would the Progressive Group be so secretive? Isn't it the Progressives that lecture everyone to be inclusive? But that does not seem to be the case. I guess their group is only inclusive if you agree with them.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Reading this morning , I had a thought
> 
> I did not know that you could have a group "by invitation only", always learning. I guess if there needed to be a private conversation about something so personal and someone needed help, could be a lifesaver for a person (suicide, deep grief, betral, 12 stepper....) That being said, why would the Progressive Group be so secretive? Isn't it the Progressives that lecture everyone to be inclusive? But that does not seem to be the case. I guess their group is only inclusive if you agree with them.


My thought is if they have their own wonderful secret club, why would they want to be anywhere else? :roll:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Atleast we do not have to read their hateful and screaming rants. Good grief, what type of person ridicules someone for their underware which we don't see, but idolizes a First Lady wears a bathing suit dress just to show off her pecs?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Atleast we do not have to read their hateful and screaming rants. Good grief, what type of person ridicules someone for their underware which we don't see, but idolizes a First Lady wears a bathing suit dress just to show off her pecs?


I guess there's so little to rag on the squeaky clean Romneys about, that they have to use whatever they can get.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Atleast we do not have to read their hateful and screaming rants. Good grief, what type of person ridicules someone for their underware which we don't see, but idolizes a First Lady wears a bathing suit dress just to show off her pecs?


According to them, Michelle "just reeked with class". I'd always thought that "reeking" was not very desireable.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

I have broken even. I moved into management and do get paid more. But, hubby is self employed and his income has dropped as the value of our home has, My mother passed away and her house needs work that I cant afford right now. I had originally took the management job for the bonus that comes with it to fix my Mom's house. That too has dropped in value but along with it, the property taxes dropped a little. I am very fortunate to have a very good job so but we are not as well off as we were 4 years ago. Just saying....


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

wlk4fun647 said:


> No, the message is that WOMEN are the ones who die in childbirth and have to worry about birth control, so it should be WOMEN who have the final sayso on WOMEN"S
> issues, NOT men.


Yes but it takes TWO to tango


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Reading this morning , I had a thought
> 
> I did not know that you could have a group "by invitation only", always learning. I guess if there needed to be a private conversation about something so personal and someone needed help, could be a lifesaver for a person (suicide, deep grief, betral, 12 stepper....) That being said, why would the Progressive Group be so secretive? Isn't it the Progressives that lecture everyone to be inclusive? But that does not seem to be the case. I guess their group is only inclusive if you agree with them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > God's creation and Charles Darwin's evolution????
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > No, the message is that WOMEN are the ones who die in childbirth and have to worry about birth control, so it should be WOMEN who have the final sayso on WOMEN"S
> ...


I know men don't die in childbirth, but there are some responsible men out there who know about birth control. Besides, along with the woman's body, there is a baby's body to consider.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > wlk4fun647 said:
> ...


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Nonnie said:
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


----------



## dingo (Jun 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> wlk4fun647 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just a concerned woman, who doesn't want other females
> ...


I did not want to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. I had no choice in that.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Just got home from spinning at Monticello, my guild did the demonstration. Well, I just heard that Massachussets has a referendom on the November ballet that would allow for legallizing assisted suicide. I was listening to the Cardinal of Boston talk about it. He is terrified of the slippery slope that will cause (not to mention it is going against Catholic beliefs). All sorts of groups are opposing it; groups that work with the disabled, Jews, some Protestant Churches, Mormans..... This is what happens when libs run wild. So according to the "Progressives"; that only allow people in their group that think like them; there is no God, Abortion is good, and now the Democratic state government wants to authorize euthinasia. 

And people don't think that the 15 government appointed "death squad" is not going to happen?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Since there has been the question of why it is important to support Israel I have the answer.Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you,and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. God is talking about Israel. Sounds like the blessing we have gotten when we have supported Israel as a Nation. God Bless America and Israel! One Nation Under God!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

dingo said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > wlk4fun647 said:
> ...


So what's your point? I didn't want to go to war because of Patriots that we are praying for on KP to be shot 12 times and be in the hospital for months either. What has that got to with taking my tax money to pay for murdering innocent babies? War in a neccessary way of life to save people from harm. I don't like it either but I certainly don't want to be apart of taking innocent life before it is given a chance to be born.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just got home from spinning at Monticello, my guild did the demonstration. Well, I just heard that Massachussets has a referendom on the November ballet that would allow for legallizing assisted suicide. I was listening to the Cardinal of Boston talk about it. He is terrified of the slippery slope that will cause (not to mention it is going against Catholic beliefs). All sorts of groups are opposing it; groups that work with the disabled, Jews, some Protestant Churches, Mormans..... This is what happens when libs run wild. So according to the "Progressives"; that only allow people in their group that think like them; there is no God, Abortion is good, and now the Democratic state government wants to authorize euthinasia.
> 
> And people don't think that the 15 government appointed "death squad" is not going to happen?


I just heard a radio interview (Mark Levin) with a neurosurgeon who called in to say he'd been in a meeting with other doctors where they discussed future guidelines for surgery, not yet made public, for people over 70 with stroke and aneurisms - in Obamacare. He said that they now do many surgeries in this category because people are getting older and there is a need. Under Obamacare, he said neurosurgeons can not do this emergency surgery until it is approved by a group of government employees. Patients are to be given "comfort care" only until approval is gained. He said it means that when people come to the ER in the middle of the night suffering a stroke, he - with 10 years of education - will have to wait until a group of bureaucrats without medical training meet and decide whether or not he can operate. I tried to cut and paste the link, but it didn't work. If you're interested, you could probably use Google to see it. It was on Mark Levin's radio show. Sarah Palin is no dummy!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Just got home from spinning at Monticello, my guild did the demonstration. Well, I just heard that Massachussets has a referendom on the November ballet that would allow for legallizing assisted suicide. I was listening to the Cardinal of Boston talk about it. He is terrified of the slippery slope that will cause (not to mention it is going against Catholic beliefs). All sorts of groups are opposing it; groups that work with the disabled, Jews, some Protestant Churches, Mormans..... This is what happens when libs run wild. So according to the "Progressives"; that only allow people in their group that think like them; there is no God, Abortion is good, and now the Democratic state government wants to authorize euthinasia.
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I can understand being against war and how one can be so against it for moral and religious reasons they are afforded Conscience Objector status. As a Catholic I am morally and religious opposed to abortion. So why can't I have a "CO" status and not pay for elective abortions? And I do not want to hear about how the Church would let a women die instead of teminating a dangerous pregnancy. If the procedure is to save the mother's life and the child dies it is not against doctrine. I had to have a total hysterectomy to save my life (to get the estrogen out of my body that fed my breast cancer), that was not a sin. I also had to go on birth control pills in my 20's because I had such dangerous PMS, it was a health and safety issue (irregular periods and I would pass out before it started even when driving) I was still a Catholic in good standing. 

God does not make mistakes ergo, a child is not a mistake it is a person.


----------



## Beila Charna (Apr 28, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I just heard a radio interview (Mark Levin) with a neurosurgeon who called in to say he'd been in a meeting with other doctors where they discussed future guidelines for surgery, not yet made public, for people over 70 with stroke and aneurisms - in Obamacare. He said that they now do many surgeries in this category because people are getting older and there is a need. Under Obamacare, he said neurosurgeons can not do this emergency surgery until it is approved by a group of government employees. Patients are to be given "comfort care" only until approval is gained. He said it means that when people come to the ER in the middle of the night suffering a stroke, he - with 10 years of education - will have to wait until a group of bureaucrats without medical training meet and decide whether or not he can operate. I tried to cut and paste the link, but it didn't work. If you're interested, you could probably use Google to see it. It was on Mark Levin's radio show. Sarah Palin is no dummy!


See 
http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/neurosurgery.asp


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

And I did, at the time my insurance would not pay for it. So I chose health and gave up other things to pay for it. My choice, my health, my responsibility


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Beila Charna said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > I just heard a radio interview (Mark Levin) with a neurosurgeon who called in to say he'd been in a meeting with other doctors where they discussed future guidelines for surgery, not yet made public, for people over 70 with stroke and aneurisms - in Obamacare. He said that they now do many surgeries in this category because people are getting older and there is a need. Under Obamacare, he said neurosurgeons can not do this emergency surgery until it is approved by a group of government employees. Patients are to be given "comfort care" only until approval is gained. He said it means that when people come to the ER in the middle of the night suffering a stroke, he - with 10 years of education - will have to wait until a group of bureaucrats without medical training meet and decide whether or not he can operate. I tried to cut and paste the link, but it didn't work. If you're interested, you could probably use Google to see it. It was on Mark Levin's radio show. Sarah Palin is no dummy!
> ...


Soro's site is snopes. Left sided. Not the truth . He has an agenda to destory America!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > bonbf3 said:
> ...


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Since there has been the question of why it is important to support Israel I have the answer.Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you,and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. God is talking about Israel. Sounds like the blessing we have gotten when we have supported Israel as a Nation. God Bless America and Israel! One Nation Under God!


AMEN
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

More fun than a human being should be allowed to have, especially when you are right


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I can understand being against war and how one can be so against it for moral and religious reasons they are afforded Conscience Objector status. As a Catholic I am morally and religious opposed to abortion. So why can't I have a "CO" status and not pay for elective abortions? And I do not want to hear about how the Church would let a women die instead of teminating a dangerous pregnancy. If the procedure is to save the mother's life and the child dies it is not against doctrine. I had to have a total hysterectomy to save my life (to get the estrogen out of my body that fed my breast cancer), that was not a sin. I also had to go on birth control pills in my 20's because I had such dangerous PMS, it was a health and safety issue (irregular periods and I would pass out before it started even when driving) I was still a Catholic in good standing.
> 
> God does not make mistakes ergo, a child is not a mistake it is a person.


Very good explanation, Lovethelake! There's a lot of misunderstanding of the Catholic Church's stand on these issues - and on birth control.
As for abortion, I never thought of it as a conscientious objector issue, but you are right. It is! That is definitely food for thought.
Bonnie (bonbf3)


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I can understand being against war and how one can be so against it for moral and religious reasons they are afforded Conscience Objector status. As a Catholic I am morally and religious opposed to abortion. So why can't I have a "CO" status and not pay for elective abortions? And I do not want to hear about how the Church would let a women die instead of teminating a dangerous pregnancy. If the procedure is to save the mother's life and the child dies it is not against doctrine. I had to have a total hysterectomy to save my life (to get the estrogen out of my body that fed my breast cancer), that was not a sin. I also had to go on birth control pills in my 20's because I had such dangerous PMS, it was a health and safety issue (irregular periods and I would pass out before it started even when driving) I was still a Catholic in good standing.
> 
> God does not make mistakes ergo, a child is not a mistake it is a person.[/
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Maybe not better off than 4 years ago, but better off when Obama took office.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Beautiful grandbaby Northwoods gal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Thanks, Bumpkins. She is a little snuggler and completely owns me  She wil be 1 month old on the 13th. Her name is Brynn.


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## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

you got that right....dont think they want another view or opinion.



lovethelake said:


> Reading this morning , I had a thought
> 
> I did not know that you could have a group "by invitation only", always learning. I guess if there needed to be a private conversation about something so personal and someone needed help, could be a lifesaver for a person (suicide, deep grief, betral, 12 stepper....) That being said, why would the Progressive Group be so secretive? Isn't it the Progressives that lecture everyone to be inclusive? But that does not seem to be the case. I guess their group is only inclusive if you agree with them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Thanks, Bumpkins. She is a little snuggler and completely owns me  She wil be 1 month old on the 13th. Her name is Brynn.


She's precious.


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## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

and I have heard George also owns Progressive Auto Ins. Do you think this is where the Progressive took their title from?? Ummmm

Soro's site is snopes. Left sided. Not the truth . He has an agenda to destory America![/quote]


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, Bumpkins. She is a little snuggler and completely owns me  She wil be 1 month old on the 13th. Her name is Brynn.
> ...


What a blessing she is! Beautiful !


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, Bumpkins. She is a little snuggler and completely owns me  She wil be 1 month old on the 13th. Her name is Brynn.
> ...


Yes , she is a little package from heaven, Bumpkins. Thank You


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry, but truly do not understand the point of that picture. Absolutely, the world is better off without him and his plots of terrorism. 

Thank God for George Bush and waterboarding


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Since Liberal/Progressives hold in distain anyone from the Republican party, I was rather surprised to see some of them on this forum giving kudos to President Gerald Ford. So I give you this quote, a statement by President Ford to the Joint Session of Congress on 12 August 1974 and ask that you give it some serious thought. 

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." 

INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!! (my addition)


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Since Liberal/Progressives hold in distain anyone from the Republican party, I was rather surprised to see some of them on this forum giving kudos to President Gerald Ford. So I give you this quote, a statement by President Ford to the Joint Session of Congress on 12 August 1974 and ask that you give it some serious thought.
> 
> "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
> 
> INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!! (my addition)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## ninal46 (May 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Since there has been the question of why it is important to support Israel I have the answer.Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you,and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed. God is talking about Israel. Sounds like the blessing we have gotten when we have supported Israel as a Nation. God Bless America and Israel! One Nation Under God!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wholeheartedly agree.


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## Txlvs2knit (Aug 12, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Since Liberal/Progressives hold in distain anyone from the Republican party, I was rather surprised to see some of them on this forum giving kudos to President Gerald Ford. So I give you this quote, a statement by President Ford to the Joint Session of Congress on 12 August 1974 and ask that you give it some serious thought.
> 
> "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
> 
> INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!! (my addition)


This IS the quote you think about when you vote on November 6!!

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take away from someone else!


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Txlvs2knit said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Since Liberal/Progressives hold in distain anyone from the Republican party, I was rather surprised to see some of them on this forum giving kudos to President Gerald Ford. So I give you this quote, a statement by President Ford to the Joint Session of Congress on 12 August 1974 and ask that you give it some serious thought.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." 

INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!!

This IS the quote you think about when you vote on November 6!! 

The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take away from someone else!

:thumbup: :thumbup: 

I agree and the erosion of our personal freedoms. The ever increasing intrusions in our everyday life, higher taxes and, the innumerable laws and regulations squelch the creative spirit of each of us. Our government was never meant to be a benevolence entity. Rather it was intended to let each individual reach their own potential provide for themselves, their families and their neighbors if need be. 

I would rather donate my money directly to someone I personally see is in need. I know that dollar is actually worth the whole dollar for that person rather than the few cents remaining after all the levels of governmental beaurocracy have taken their portion. I live in Minnesota, one of the highest taxed states in the US. We have a high state tax but we also have a state sales tax as well. We also have the most generous welfare requirements of any state. Trust me, it is also hugely taken advantage of. A person can literally step foot in the state and qualify for some sort of assistance. Food stamps, section 8 housing subsidies, etc. We also give them cell phones, computers, and free Internet. ENOUGH!!! The money for all that comes from somewhere and that somewhere is from those of us that actually earn it.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for helping others. I'd just rather be the one that decides who needs the assistance. It would reinsert one thing that today is lacking. That of human interaction with those in need. One thing that would result from that is it would better root out those taking advantage (fool me once and all that but fool the government once and the machine gives it to you for life).


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Thumper, I could not agree more. That is why I donate to my church and specific charities of my choice where a huge majority of the money goes to the the cause. I also love to do random acts of kindness (paying for a vet's lunch anonymously). I believe in sharing and paying it forward. I just do not believe that the Obama Administration spends my money according to my moral beliefs. Any administration that violates my religious freedom, and is turning us into a "nanny state" is not to be trusted. I mean who wouldn't want to be like Holland and have a three person team available to assist in suicides for the terminally ill and anyone over 70? Hey we are a bigger country, so we will have our 15 person "death panel"


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Since Liberal/Progressives hold in distain anyone from the Republican party, I was rather surprised to see some of them on this forum giving kudos to President Gerald Ford. So I give you this quote, a statement by President Ford to the Joint Session of Congress on 12 August 1974 and ask that you give it some serious thought.
> 
> "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
> 
> INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!! (my addition)


We would be wise to remember that - and act on it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have."
> 
> INCLUDING YOUR FREEDOM!!!
> 
> ...


I agree. It is the same thing here in Arkansas. Now they have a program that the kids will get a back pack full of food for the weekend from the school. Now the parents can do want ever they want and not have to feed their own kids.The are fed 3 meals a day and now sent home with food for the weekend. I don't want anyone to be hungry but this is getting ridiculous. Their mama's are the biggest fattest you have ever seen. Why don't they take their food and feed their kids. My parents did with out food to give to their kids. I even let my kids have the meat at meals and just took a bite. Why do people not have any pride any more? Oh I forgot they don't have to.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

You are so right Country Bumpkins. Don't get me started . I worked in the public school system here for 8 years. Mom could have the best beer bash barbecues every weekend but she had no money for food or school supplies for her four kids, with 3 different dads.
People expect us that work to supply them with e erything


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sorry, but truly do not understand the point of that picture. Absolutely, the world is better off without him and his plots of terrorism.
> 
> Thank God for George Bush and waterboarding


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

No, people over 70 will not be left to die. My own neurologist, Dr. Ivan Brodsky, Minneapolis Clinic of Neurology laughed when I brought this up and said to me who have you been listening to? This man has been my doctor for nearly 30 years and I am elderly and he would never let one of his patients die without doing everything possible to save them. I know because he saved my life. I have attached an article Dr. Brodsky referred me to.
Point of Information, Dr. Brodsky is a Russian Jew whose family fled to Canada to escape persecution and death and he would never inflict such suffering on another human being and neither would other doctors. As my dear Dr. Brodsky said, they resort to fear as cowards always do as their last line of defense for what is indefensable. Please contact Dr. Brodsky or call the AANS or CNS or contact your own doctor or Neurologist if you have one to get accurate information. You don't need to live in fear.

UPDATE
neurosurgery
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Alison Dye
January 10, 2012 (202) 446-2028
[email protected]
Neurosurgeons Condemn False Assertions Made About Health Reform Law on Mark Levin Show
Refute Statements that the Law Would Ration Neurosurgical Care for the Elderly
Washington, DC  On November 22, 2011, an individual claiming to be a brain surgeon made several
statements referencing neurosurgical care on a Mark Levin radio show segment. The American
Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS) and the Congress of Neurological Surgeons (CNS)
reviewed this segment and found that it contained several factual inaccuracies which we wish to clarify.
The AANS and CNS are unaware of any federal government document directing that advanced
neurosurgery for patients over 70 years of age will not be indicated and only supportive care treatment
will be provided. Furthermore, in conducting our own due diligence, the caller who identified himself as
a brain surgeon is not actually a neurosurgeon, nor was there any session at the recent Congress of
Neurological Surgeons scientific meeting in Washington, DC at which a purported government
document calling for the rationing of neurosurgical care was discussed.
Neurosurgeons are committed to providing timely, compassionate, and state of the art treatment for all
patients -- regardless of age -- who have neurosurgical conditions. As such, we have requested numerous
times that this podcast be removed from Mark Levins website as it portrays inaccurate information which
could potentially be harmful to the patients that we serve.
###
The American Association of Neurological Surgeons (AANS), founded in 1931, and the Congress of Neurological
Surgeons (CNS), founded in 1951, are the two largest scientific and educational associations for neurosurgical
professionals in the world. These groups represent over 8,000 neurosurgeons worldwide. Neurological surgery is
the medical specialty concerned with the prevention, diagnosis, treatment and rehabilitation of disorders that affect
the entire nervous system, including the spinal column, spinal cord, brain and peripheral nerves


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

When my husband was laid off from the RR for 19months we applied for food stamps. We were turned down because we had a loan for our home. They told us we couldn't have food stamps because we owned our own home. Thank God for taking care of us because He was the one that got us thru the rough time we were going thru with 3 kids. I am glad now that we didn't get it. Shows what will happen when we depend on God . He didn't let us down like our goverment did. PTL


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## Txlvs2knit (Aug 12, 2011)

"When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation." Anonymous


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Amen :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I would like to know who you ladies think would take care of the poor if our government didn't have a work/welfare program in place


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know who you ladies think would take care of the poor if our government didn't have a work/welfare program in place


Those who voluntarily donate their time, money, and goods. As I stated earlier I would rather give money directly to those in need as the dollar would be worth a dollar instead of the cents left over after it has filtered through all of the beaurocrats hands.

Churches and others have always been around to help the needy. With the government taking over these things accountability for ones actions has gone out the window and abuse is rife.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know who you ladies think would take care of the poor if our government didn't have a work/welfare program in place


Simple, the same people who always do so - the taxpayers and those with the means and desire to earn and give (not take)!

An entitlement society can exist only for a time.

Americans have NEVER forgotten the truly poor; we have, and always will, take care of those who cannot do so for themselves.

The question is who will take care of those who feel entitled since they soon will not have to earn a welfare payment any longer if the proposal goes through with approval.

However, since there are less and less taxpayers and more and more tax takers eventually there will be no funds available for anyone if things don't change really soon. Look at Greece, Ireland, Spain for recent examples.

Those who work are constantly asked to give more, so, they, too will stop working and paying taxes so they can be in the "take" rather than "give" group.

There are not enough millionaires and billionaires to take care of the entire population of American (legal and illegal).

The Wealthy? They will continue to give where they choose as they do presently.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

LillyK said:


> No, people over 70 will not be left to die. My own neurologist, Dr. Ivan Brodsky, Minneapolis Clinic of Neurology laughed when I brought this up and said to me who have you been listening to? This man has been my doctor for nearly 30 years and I am elderly and he would never let one of his patients die without doing everything possible to save them. I know because he saved my life. I have attached an article Dr. Brodsky referred me to.
> Point of Information, Dr. Brodsky is a Russian Jew whose family fled to Canada to escape persecution and death and he would never inflict such suffering on another human being and neither would other doctors. As my dear Dr. Brodsky said, they resort to fear as cowards always do as their last line of defense for what is indefensable. Please contact Dr. Brodsky or call the AANS or CNS or contact your own doctor or Neurologist if you have one to get accurate information. You don't need to live in fear.
> 
> UPDATE
> ...


One will find doctors on both sides of this argument. It's politics. unfortunately, the only way we will know if this is true, is when it is actually put into practice. There is so much about the health care bill that is still unknown at this point in time. The whole healthcare plan is still being sold. Otherwise, why would the democrats still need to use their "health care stories" to try and persuade us to accept it? I find it absolutely appalling the way the president, first lady and VP are exploiting the death of the president's mother and their claims that she had no insurance at the time, while all the time she was covered through her work. There was also the ad about Bain Capital, and another one about a little boy that had no insurance. All of these "stories" were reported as being false.

Who is really increasing the fear?


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know who you ladies think would take care of the poor if our government didn't have a work/welfare program in place


Poor or lazy there is a difference. I believe most of us don't mind helping he poor that cannot help themselves it's the lazy that won't do anything and expect us to give, give, give


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thumper - You said you had to turn to foodstamps yourself when you needed them. I don't have a problem paying my taxes for you and your family to get what you needed to eat. You said charities, churches should take care of the needy. Where was the church when you and your family needed help? Chuches and charities are made up of people and if too many of those people are out of jobs themselves they can't give money they don't have. That's why there are government programs to help people out like you when you can't do it by yourself. There are always people who take advantage of the system. People who cheat have always been around and will always be around. I live in Minnesota too and I know that it is a generous state when it comes to welfare. Probably to generous. I don't want to get rid of all of it because some people are bad. I want to make sure that good people like you will always get the help you need when life gets tough. I would hope you would care about me too if I needed it.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Here in our area the St. Vincent de Paul Society does a great job helping the homeless and it feeds people everyday. I support them with a donation every month as I know it goes where it is needed. They help people not only by feeding them, but helping find living quarters, housing for homeless in the winter months, clothes, etc. Like someone else said, the govt wastes so much money and the bureaucrats all get their piece.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Who took care of the poor before Food Stamps? People from the community, community created food centers, churches...

No one is saying not to help, good grief it is our moral responsibility to help the "truly needy". "Governments first responsibility is to protect the people, not run their lives." Ronald Reagan. When did we stop taking responsibility for our lives and not depending on others to take responsibility for us? We have the Right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. NOT THE RIGHT to other peoples' hard earned money or labors. It is their right to give freely, not to have the government determine what they must give and to whom will receive it.

Personally, the more I am told by the Government what I must do, the more angry I am becoming. And I am trying so hard to not feel that way, honestly. But when I am forced to give away what is mine because it is no longer a choice, privilege or honor to help others, it become a festering resentment. So I have become very selective where and whom I help. I do not support national organizations, only local ones where I can monitor that my money is spent the way it was promised to be spent. I want it to count and do the best good for those who truly need help.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Chuches and charities are made up of people and if too many of those people are out of jobs themselves they can't give money they don't have. That's why there are government programs to help people out like you when you can't do it by yourself.


....LillyK, Do you know who gives the most to charitable foundations, hospitals, universities, foundations, educational organizations, churches, military support organizations, food banks, etc?

The rich, the wealthy, the entrepreneurs, the business owners, the corporations, the investors and venture capitalists (like Bain Capital).

Why? Because they EARN money and enough $ to take care of themselves AND others.

When any administration, particularly, like the Obama Admin, chooses to raise taxes and fees and reduce charitable deductions for the rich, the wealthy, the investors, the entrepreneurs, the business owners and venture capitalists; the charitable foundations, hospitals, universities, foundations, educational organizations, military support ALL suffer and receive less or no money to help people in need.

The Dems want to raise the taxes and decrease the deductions on all those who are the largest donors. Who do YOU think will suffer the consequences?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You are all missing the point. Yes, people give to charity to help the poor. Yes, St.Vincent dePaul provides food and clothing as do many other church groups. Why, then, do we still have people hungry and homeless? Should we let the "lazy" people who happen to be unemployed starve? Let them die from cancer? Let them die from living on the streets? Let children, through no fault of their own go hungry? (The same people who are opposed to abortion don't want to provide for the babies after they are born, do they?) 
Just let the poor and lazy die, I guess.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You are all missing the point. Why, then, do we still have people hungry and homeless?


Do you understand the point that 40% and decreasing cannot sustain 60% and increasing? Simple math.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Do you understand the question? Let the poor and lazy die?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

We don't have any homeles here. Never seen one but there is public housing on every block. I have seen someone on the hwy wanting to work for food but no homeless. We have many churches in my town too that support the hungry but no homeless on the streets. I have seen them in Little Rock and have been alot of reports on the news that they are scaming people out of money and making alot from people. I will be the first in line to help someone that is hungry. Have done it many times and will continue to do it.But I don't like to feed someone that will not even try to help themselves. I don't like to do it because my goverment makes me do it.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You are all missing the point. Yes, people give to charity to help the poor. Yes, St.Vincent dePaul provides food and clothing as do many other church groups. Why, then, do we still have people hungry and homeless? Should we let the "lazy" people who happen to be unemployed starve? Let them die from cancer? Let them die from living on the streets? Let children, through no fault of their own go hungry? (The same people who are opposed to abortion don't want to provide for the babies after they are born, do they?)
> Just let the poor and lazy die, I guess.


Wrong poor are poor and many would rather starve then take a hand out from anyone
Lazy is just that lazy. They can work but think thy are entitled to everything. They are the ones we are against helping. Welfare should come with training to better themselves not stay on the system forever . There are to many people that think the more babies they have the more money they can get so why even do anything else.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Thumper - You said you had to turn to foodstamps yourself when you needed them. I don't have a problem paying my taxes for you and your family to get what you needed to eat. You said charities, churches should take care of the needy. Where was the church when you and your family needed help? Chuches and charities are made up of people and if too many of those people are out of jobs themselves they can't give money they don't have. That's why there are government programs to help people out like you when you can't do it by yourself. There are always people who take advantage of the system. People who cheat have always been around and will always be around. I live in Minnesota too and I know that it is a generous state when it comes to welfare. Probably to generous. I don't want to get rid of all of it because some people are bad. I want to make sure that good people like you will always get the help you need when life gets tough. I would hope you would care about me too if I needed it.


I said we, as a family, we're on them once for three months. I don't mind helping people over humps. I mind it when it's a forever thing.

We do have an obligation to those who are disabled, orphaned, or widowed. I make clothing for a local orphanage, used to make meals for elderly neighbors when they were still living, have anonymously paid heating and electricity for those who have lost jobs, and numerous other things. But I SEE the need. It's not someone telling me I have to give them money for somebody else I don't know and have no idea if the need is really true or if im being laughed at for a chump while they walk away stuffing my money in their pocket. I see too much of that and it's making me angry.

And our church was there. During that time they paid our heating bill. And then during the time when our middle son was comatose and in the hospital after being hit by a truck. We never had to worry about our other children not being watched after, the house being clean, a hot meal ready and on the table, and a box of groceries on the front stoop when they noticed we needed more. The men made sure that any repairs were attended to as well.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you understand the question? Let the poor and lazy die?


If you are speaking to me, I acknowledge you don't understand what I just explained to answer your question, and if you don't understand that 60% is more than 40% of anything there is nothing more I can say to explain to you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What you say about the rich being charitable and helping people out I agree with you. Then you added about them getting tax breaks and they would not give as much to charity. Why would they give less to charity? Do they only give to get a tax break. If they are millionaires or richer they should give generously. I know in Christian tradition
we are supposed to give secretely so only our Father knows and we are not supposed to brag about it because then that bragging becomes the reward for the giving. In hard times I believe most decent people dig a little deeper to help others how deep must the pockets of the wealthy be when they reach a point that they say I have given too much. In Minnesota we have entire families who are homeless because of job loss, then forclosure. We aren't taking care of all these people and I don't know what is going to happen this winter when it gets cold. These people aren't bums. They are good people who need help. I don't give to get tax breaks I give because it is what we are supposed to do. Are the rich going to suffer if they give a little more to the poor. Even better why not give a poor man or woman a job so they can get back on their feet. Many people need help for the first time in their lives and they just need temporary help to get back on their feet again.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

When I use the term "lazy" I'm using the word of someone on this thread.

How do you tell the difference between the child of a lazy person and the child of a poor person? How do you tell the difference between a lazy person and one who can't find a job? Is it OK for a lazy person to starve to death?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you understand the question? Let the poor and lazy die?


I understand your question perfectly. Are they poor because they are lazy? If so, yeah, go hungry. It's amazing how much of an incentive an empty stomach is in get a person off their derrières and do something. My kids learned that when they were young. So did I. "No workie, no eatie".

Why are they poor? Were they the 'party' people in school and flunked/dropped out and never graduated? No sympathy from me.

I'm sick of being told that I have no right to judge. I have a right to not associate with disgusting people and to not support disgusting behavior.

I'm also sick of having the tired "they don't want abortion but would let the kids starve" argument. If you can't afford a baby don't have sex or buy some condoms (they're cheap!). If you still end up pregnant and can't afford a baby then give it up for adoption!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You should be proud of your sense of morality.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thumper - You are very lucky you had all the support you needed and that is wonderful that you help others when they need it. I understand your getting upset when you suspect somebody may be scaming you but when you give from the heart like you do what is really important is that God knows you are not a fool. God will see your kindness and say well done. I believe that when we share what we have with others God has a way of taking care of us. I have seen this over and over again in my own life that when I was in a tight spot my needs were met and I know it was God not letting me down because I didn't keep a ledger of what I gave to others I did like you did and just saw the need and did what was right. We have more than enough for all of us if we trust in God's goodness. I can always share my piece of pie so someone else will get to eat. We need to get over our own selfishness and do what is right.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> When I use the term "lazy" I'm using the word of someone on this thread.
> 
> How do you tell the difference between the child of a lazy person and the child of a poor person? How do you tell the difference between a lazy person and one who can't find a job? Is it OK for a lazy person to starve to death?


no its not okay for them to starve but by the definition lazy means they can but do not choose to work so if they are doing nothing and taking taxpayer money we are enabling them to continue with the slothful ways they choose live I don not have an answer but I do not think we should encourage laziness. I f we all choose that life who would then be there to "hand out Tax money not the Govt. they do not have money of their own they rely on those who are willing to work to pay into the coffers and that tax money should be spent wisely I think the problem is there are not enough background checks to assertain the exact cause of the need for handout it seems the Govt just hands out money and food stamps willy nilly


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> When I use the term "lazy" I'm using the word of someone on this thread.
> 
> How do you tell the difference between the child of a lazy person and the child of a poor person? How do you tell the difference between a lazy person and one who can't find a job? Is it OK for a lazy person to starve to death?


Easy. Give locally and personally know who is receiving your assistance.

And your question about letting a lazy person starve to death is just plain silly. I mean, really...


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Then you added about them getting tax breaks and they would not give as much to charity. Why would they give less to charity?
> 
> ....Simply. If a person earns the same profit but is required to pay more in taxes, fees and has less taxable deductions the have less to give! (ie. assume the donation was 10% of the profit of a person), if the profit was reduced because of a larger $ requirement to the govt, 10% of a smaller profit = a smaller donation even through the percentage given is the same.)
> 
> ...


All the more reason to vote for Romney who will increase private sector jobs, not govt jobs, Govt jobs require more $ from the rich and starts the cycle I just described in detail.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> When I use the term "lazy" I'm using the word of someone on this thread.
> 
> How do you tell the difference between the child of a lazy person and the child of a poor person?
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I could never let a child starve. I believe God would punish me if I refused a child food because they had bad parents. We can't pick the family we come from. Maybe you don't agree but I thought we were supposed to let God do the judging as God is the only one that knows our soul. That's just my belief.

Welfare is not forever - Because of high unemployment some states have requested that they be able to modify the work requirement in their own state because there are not enough jobs to go around.
With the passage of Welfare Reform under the Clinton Administration, there is a time limit as to how long someone can stay on welfare, and it can vary from state to state depending on circumstances. It is a myth that healthy people can stay on for life or from generation to generation. Welfare is administrered by the states using federal dollars. Many/Most states have work programs for the undereducated and unemployable, teaching the skills, occupations, interview techniques, resume creation, dressing and grooming. 

Welfare should not be confused with Social Security disability, which is an entirely different program that a worker would have paid into, and must have worked a certain amount of time in order to be eligible.

Thank goodness someone knew the fact that Welfare Reform was instituted in the Clinton administration. Typically, 5 years lifetime is the limit to collect welfare.

Social Security has two systems available for people who cannot work. One is Social Security Disability which is based on the number of quarters one has worked before a disability occurs. One can ONLY be allowed to collect disability (SSDI) if one has a permanent and total disability that prevents any ability to work in the competitive marketplace.

The alternative program, for people who do not have enough quarters to provide a minimum income (about $800 a month) is Social Security Income or SSI. Often times people who suffer from severe mental illness and have never worked, or people who have suffered from a catastrophic medical event and have worked few quarters are eligible for SSI. Like Disability, you can collect throughout your lifetime.

Both SSDI and SSI patients are required to be examined periodically in order to assess continued disability.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Welfare is not forever - Because of high unemployment some states have requested that they be able to modify the work requirement in their own state because there are not enough jobs to go around.
> With the passage of Welfare Reform under the Clinton Administration, there is a time limit as to how long someone can stay on welfare, and it can vary from state to state depending on circumstances.


I know you know that Obama attempted to remove the "work" requirement from Clinton's Welfare law.

However, Obama's attempt to do so is being challenged by members of Congress as such a change can only be legally done by Congress.

Unless, of course, Obama pushes through yet another Executive Order or fiat before Congress stops him which they'd then have to move to reverse the order under a new President.

Oh, the joys of D.C.!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> I could never let a child starve. I believe God would punish me if I refused a child food because they had bad parents. We can't pick the family we come from. Maybe you don't agree but I thought we were supposed to let God do the judging as God is the only one that knows our soul. That's just my belief.
> 
> ...parents as in your example should reported and the childn removed from the home. It does happen. I had a disgusting step-niece who had three children (never married and different fathers for all three) who were all removed when she was declared an unfit mother and the children made wards of the state.
> 
> ...


...as I've stated before I am not against taking care of the disabled, the orphaned, or the widowed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

When the richest country in the World refuses to take care of it's most vulnerable people and judges who is fit to survive or not to survive we assume the power that belongs only to God. I am a Progressive and that is what we believe. I am sorry to have bothered you and wasted my time trying to be civil and trying to find some common ground. I care about all of you but you do not care about me. I guess that is what makes us different.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

What are the people on that live in public housing for $10 a month? Is that welfare? They don't move after 5 years. My husband worked with some people at the Railroad that worked full time but bragged they got checks and food stamps. What were they on? I am for real. What is that called?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Welfare is not forever - Because of high unemployment some states have requested that they be able to modify the work requirement in their own state because there are not enough jobs to go around.
> ...


not true!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> When the richest country in the World refuses to take care of it's most vulnerable people and judges who is fit to survive or not to survive we assume the power that belongs only to God. I am a Progressive and that is what we believe. I am sorry to have bothered you and wasted my time trying to be civil and trying to find some common ground. I care about all of you but you do not care about me. I guess that is what makes us different.


The issue that I have with your statement is that you only think the richest refuse to take care of the most vulnerable people. How do you know?

Lilly, we have found common ground. We agree that the poor should be helped. We agree that children should not starve. We agree that people need to give of themselves in their time, their goods, and their money. Everyone has been civil. We just haven't agreed with you on every point.

And where have any of us said that we don't care about you?


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Check out this Doctors site about Obamacare. Really interesting
American Docs4 Truth. Great you-tube video toO.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Interesting philosophy! Let's be vehement about making sure that we feed the starving children but don't worry....it's OK to suck the brains out of a baby that's in the birth canal.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

None of use would let a child starve that is about the stupidest thing I have ever heard.
More checks are needed. Why should people on welfare drive better cars than a lot of people, be able to smoke, drink beer, have iphones ect while we the working , tax paying people pay their tab. When this government is broke who is going to pay then.
Do the math 40% work force, 60% doing nothing. Any way you look at that it dosen't work.
Stop the hand outs to illegals. Did you know that most forgeign(green card) business don't pay taxes for 7 to 10 years and when they have to start they sell to a cousin, friend ect and then they don't pay taxes for 7 to 10 years and on and on and on.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Interesting philosophy! Let's be vehement about making sure that we feed the starving children but don't worry....it's OK to suck the brains out of a baby that's in the birth canal.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Unfortunately they cannot have it both ways but they will try.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

LillyK said:


> When the richest country in the World refuses to take care of it's most vulnerable people and judges who is fit to survive or not to survive we assume the power that belongs only to God. I am a Progressive and that is what we believe. I am sorry to have bothered you and wasted my time trying to be civil and trying to find some common ground. I care about all of you but you do not care about me. I guess that is what makes us different.


What disdain you have for your own country; heartbreaking to hear from an American. America does NOT refuse to take care of its poor and needy, nor should America apologize for that which it does not do.

When YOU judge falsely YOU assume the power that belongs only to God.

Wow ... what confidence you have with the desire and ability to judge the rich, the non-Progressives, America and those who conversed with you in civil disagreement.

It is you who wrongly judged America and YOU who judged "we" don't care about you.

You stated you are a Christian - as am I. I offer unto you, "May God show his mercy upon you now and at the gates of Heaven."


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Several people have said some very reasonable things on the last page or two. Yes, people give money to various charitable organizations, some wealthy people are very philanthropic, churches and communities try to help the truly needy. That being said, what do we do about the people who fall through the cracks? Some of them are lazy, drunk, on drugs and a lot of other things that makes us feel that government money is being wasted, but some are children and other people who can't speak for themselves. I'm trying to think how we can help the deserving and at the same time not spend an arm and a leg for it. Any thoughts?


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

I for one think less government involvement is needed. 
Most people are kind compassionate and caring .
My daughter said to me one Christmas season when she knew we were having a hard time. Mom you are so good about giving to the bell ringers.
My reply. It may not be much but we are blessed and I like to give what I can.
Those that can help do so with a generous heart, but I cannot help everyone and neither can most that I know.
The government forcing us is what is wrong.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

not true![/quote]

For your review: http://tinyurl.com/98qvnow

I know you won't believe this or any other link of reference, but you should at least offer more than the words "not true" to defend your position.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Several people have said some very reasonable things on the last page or two. Yes, people give money to various charitable organizations, some wealthy people are very philanthropic, churches and communities try to help the truly needy. That being said, what do we do about the people who fall through the cracks? Some of them are lazy, drunk, on drugs and a lot of other things that makes us feel that government money is being wasted, but some are children and other people who can't speak for themselves. I'm trying to think how we can help the deserving and at the same time not spend an arm and a leg for it. Any thoughts?


Seattle, as I stated on obvious pages, we need to take a step back and bring it back to the neighborhood level. Take care of those in need around us. Reinsert the personal contact. It would go along way to weed out those that truly don't need the help but are just taking advantage of a system that has lost accountability which would leave more funds available for those that actually need and deserve the help.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sorry, but truly do not understand the point of that picture. Absolutely, the world is better off without him and his plots of terrorism.
> 
> Thank God for George Bush and waterboarding


The point of that picture is that we are better off than 4 years ago because the terrorist who orchestrated the attack of our country is dead, Period. No other nuances. Just that. 
Peace and Happy Knitting


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Oooops! My mistake, I admit such; I must stick to the facts.

LillyK didn't state she was a Christian; she only implies she is one. Sorry, to have lead others to believe she is a Christian and for me to falsely state same and change the meaning of her words. 

I apologize Nancy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Atleast we do not have to read their hateful and screaming rants. Good grief, what type of person ridicules someone for their underware which we don't see, but idolizes a First Lady wears a bathing suit dress just to show off her pecs?


If the forum upsets you so much, then just change the channel and visit someplace where you are comfortable. We are not the only "exclusive" forum on this site.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Atleast we do not have to read their hateful and screaming rants. Good grief, what type of person ridicules someone for their underware which we don't see, but idolizes a First Lady wears a bathing suit dress just to show off her pecs?
> ...


Northwoods Gal: you missed the point. I think LovetheLake would concur she feels comfortable here, in the civil, public forum and not in the private Progressive Forum where you are most active and where LTL feels is hateful and screaming rants.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

"If the forum upsets you so much, then just change the channel and visit someplace where you are comfortable."

Wise words. I've read all the comments and all range of emotions have been on display. There have been silly things said from each side of the coin. But, on the whole, there has been a great discussion here and, as I said to Lilly, we have been able to find common ground. That's a success in my book.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I think love the lake can speak for herself, no?
Peace


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> "If the forum upsets you so much, then just change the channel and visit someplace where you are comfortable."
> 
> Wise words. I've read all the comments and all range of emotions have been on display. There have been silly things said from each side of the coin. But, on the whole, there has been a great discussion here and, as I said to Lilly, we have been able to find common ground. That's a success in my book.


Yes it is a good success. It's the first time it has been accomplished. Though our thoughts in politics and religion may differ, we have the common good that ties us together.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> not true!


For your review: http://tinyurl.com/98qvnow

I know you won't believe this or any other link of reference, but you should at least offer more than the words "not true" to defend your position.[/quote]

There are several places to check the Obama work requirement

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/08/does-obamas-plan-gut-welfare-reform/


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Though our thoughts in politics and religion may differ, we have the common good that ties us together.


How unfortunate the common good ties of which you speak are not evident in the invitation-only Progressive Forum as those posts negatively discuss the people who post in the public forum.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BTW, what happened to the hole the Progressives were supposed to be living in so that they didn't have to sully themselves with Conservative interaction????


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Though our thoughts in politics and religion may differ, we have the common good that ties us together.
> ...


 Only weak minded people have to talk about others behind their backs
Dosen't say a lot about the progressive forum if you ask me
Sounds more communist then progressive


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Not true!
> There are several places to check the Obama work requirement





cherf said:


> I know you know that Obama attempted to remove the "work" requirement from Clinton's Welfare law.
> 
> However, Obama's attempt to do so is being challenged by members of Congress as such a change can only be legally done by Congress.


From Reason.com

But in a July 12 memo, the Department of Health and Human Services issued a memo asserting the authority to waive those carefully determined work requirements. The memo was at least partly in response to written requests from two states with GOP governors, Nevada and Arizona, for more leeway to pursue welfare reforms employment goals.

So whats the big deal? The problem is not so much with the particular requests from Nevada and Utah, which arent likely to undermine the work focus of welfare reform, but with HHS's assertion of authority to waive the laws work requirements. That authority doesnt really exist in the statute, and is therefore of questionable legality.

The long-term reason to worry is about what HHS will do with that authority. As Cato Institute Senior Fellow Michael Tanner tells me, It really is a question of how much you trust the Obama administration. They have unilaterally granted themselves a waiver authority that does not actually exist in the legislation  surprise!  but say that we shouldnt worry: They wont use it to actually weaken work requirements.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


They have a secret forum. We are not suppose to know about it, because they are so inclusive.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Oooops! My mistake, I admit such; I must stick to the facts.
> 
> LillyK didn't state she was a Christian; she only implies she is one. Sorry, to have lead others to believe she is a Christian and for me to falsely state same and change the meaning of her words.
> 
> I apologize Nancy.


I believe they she only stated that she was a 'progressive'.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BTW, what happened to the hole the Progressives were supposed to be living in so that they didn't have to sully themselves with Conservative interaction????


You got a giggle out of me on that one. :lol:

Their loss. I'm not afraid of discussion. Keeps the mind open and young.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
> 
> They have a secret forum. We are not suppose to know about it, because they are so inclusive.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, what happened to the hole the Progressives were supposed to be living in so that they didn't have to sully themselves with Conservative interaction????
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, what happened to the hole the Progressives were supposed to be living in so that they didn't have to sully themselves with Conservative interaction????
> ...


I'm glad, Thumper. A bit of humor is helpful when dealing with mind numbing.....never mind! ;-)


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I believe they she only stated that she was a 'progressive'.


Yes, that is correct. LillyK intentionally makes one think by her words she is a Christian. Best to be prudent and carefully consider her words and intent.

She fooled me once ... but will not again.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, but truly do not understand the point of that picture. Absolutely, the world is better off without him and his plots of terrorism.
> ...


in the words of a patriot [unknown source] Osama bin Laden is dead because our intelligence and our military found where he was hiding, using tools and leads inherited from the Bush Administration. If President Obama and Vice President Biden want to take credit for the easy decision to act on that information, well, theres enough credit to go around. But they deserve no credit for finding him in the first place.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Interesting philosophy! Let's be vehement about making sure that we feed the starving children but don't worry....it's OK to suck the brains out of a baby that's in the birth canal.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

this is what I was talking when I mentioned about how the wealthy is keeping our hospitals open. If it was not for donors many hospitals would have to close their doors. 
**********************************************
....LillyK, Do you know who gives the most to charitable foundations, hospitals, universities, foundations, educational organizations, churches, military support organizations, food banks, etc?

The rich, the wealthy, the entrepreneurs, the business owners, the corporations, the investors and venture capitalists (like Bain Capital).

Why? Because they EARN money and enough $ to take care of themselves AND others.

When any administration, particularly, like the Obama Admin, chooses to raise taxes and fees and reduce charitable deductions for the rich, the wealthy, the investors, the entrepreneurs, the business owners and venture capitalists; the charitable foundations, hospitals, universities, foundations, educational organizations, military support ALL suffer and receive less or no money to help people in need.

The Dems want to raise the taxes and decrease the deductions on all those who are the largest donors. Who do YOU think will suffer the consequences?[/quote]


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ezenby said:


> this is what I was talking when I mentioned about how the wealthy is keeping our hospitals open. If it was not for donors many hospitals would have to close their doors.
> **********************************************
> ....LillyK, Do you know who gives the most to charitable foundations, hospitals, universities, foundations, educational organizations, churches, military support organizations, food banks, etc?
> 
> ...


[/quote]

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Ezenby, Great, I'm glad you understood what I wrote to LillyK, and I understood what you posted earlier. Great minds think alike!


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## Ezenby (Mar 24, 2011)

Comes down to......taking what you do not deserve makes slaves of those that are giving.

Comes down to.....earn it in some way or when the time comes give back.
Comes down to.....are you really trying to help yourself ... or are you just taking. Taking because its so easy to falsify. There will be many populating hell for wrongful acts here on earth.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

It's not just "the rich", who I've yet to hear any concrete definition as to what that actually means. This will also affect the middle class and take thousands more from us not only in direct taxes but in what we would be allowed to deduct from our tax obligation. Listen to Dick Morris who used to work for the Clinton administration.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=-wIfI2whjiM


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## eneurian (May 4, 2011)

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! both of us have only disability. no cola for 5 years then the 3.6% was used up by the medicare increase but then because we are also in subsidised housing the rent went up 3.6% also. my son's SSI was cut by the same 3.6% so we are effectively out 13.2% total. and the cost of living went up way more than 3.6% in the grocers, the power, the petrol, insurance, and out of pocket medical care! 
i cannot in good conscience vote for either candidate and since this is NOT a democracy we have no vote of no confidence.
i keep hoping for a planet ending comet to come this way!!!


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## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

annamatilda said:


> For myself NO. No raise in Social Security for 2 years, then when there was a raise, the cost of medicare went up.
> Interest rate on my small IRA went from 3.25% in January 2009 to .85% today.
> Prices of everything else has gone up, including the price of yarn.


Well I am certainly not as well off. My husband is a teacher. Has been laid off since his last job. Unemployment has run out and the prices of every thing has gone up.

We are barely making it. We have discussed it and its like God is preparing us for the future. We have stared cutting back on everything. I now realize what a spend thrift I was. The one extravagance is my yarn. My DH does let me buy some, I just cut back to special projects that we discuss before I buy. He loves to garden and I have found out I like to cann my own vegetables. I cook from scratch more than ever and I like it. Its more flavorful and better for us. So not everything negative is bad for you. Oh yeah there are days when I get tired and wish for convience foods, but we are making it without help from others. You know independence is one of the last things you loose. I hope to keep my independence for a long time. Sure I wish I had more money, but at least we are making it Ok now. :wink:  :lol: :thumbup: and we have each other.


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## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Absolutely no! We are NOT better off. Our standard of living has dropped because the cost of living has gone up. Also,we feel an obligation to help our adult children who have been affected by the awful economic conditions. We have had to make mortgage payments for one who lost his job and was out of work for more than a year. Others have needed help with rent and basic living expenses. The cost of gasoline alone is $4.15 per gallon for the 'cheap stuff' and that makes everything we buy and everything we do cost more. The money has to come from somewhere.
> 
> Our 'comfortable retirement' is not as comfortable as we planned. We'll be ok, but we are very worried about our children's and grand children's future.
> 
> P.S. I don't even like to think about the real estate values and how much we've "lost." The rental market never goes down, and with more people losing their homes the rental prices will continue to go up! We are hit either way!


I know what you are saying an one bedroom apartment is $450 a month with utilities. Fortunately my home is paid for we only have to worry about monthly expenses and insurances. :? and find that hard some days. I have to start saving monthly for my taxes in December. Plus I live in rural Missouri. I can only imagine what the cost is in a big city. We have been discussing moving to the country so we could have a larger garden and maybe chickens, rabbits etc... But its hard for us to get around now we are afraid that it would be too hard on us in the country so for now we are staying in the city. 
:? :roll:

Neither of us are voting for Obama, but I don' think the other option is much better. We will vote but we are going to continue to pray for relief. :hunf: :roll: :thumbup:


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## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

travelingal said:


> After reading all the "negatives" above, aren't we lucky to have SSI, Social Security and Medicare, not to mention the new Health Care? Outsourcing has caused a lot of us to lose our jobs, but things ARE getting better and our government is our safety net. Also note that those of us who lost money in the market are getting it back double now!


Yes in a way, I am reserving my opion about the new Health Insurance. I fear that the 500Billion taken from Medicare will destroy the Social Security and Medicare we now have and we are not going to be happy. But I am trying to be positive and not say much. But I still worry :roll: :hunf:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Sorry that you are having such problems, but I do pray that you are not so desperate that you pray for that comet.

I guess that the promise of hope and change was broken. In my humble opinion, voting for Obama you know what your future will be like, same or even worse same old same old.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Sarah Jo said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely no! We are NOT better off. Our standard of living has dropped because the cost of living has gone up. Also,we feel an obligation to help our adult children who have been affected by the awful economic conditions. We have had to make mortgage payments for one who lost his job and was out of work for more than a year. Others have needed help with rent and basic living expenses. The cost of gasoline alone is $4.15 per gallon for the 'cheap stuff' and that makes everything we buy and everything we do cost more. The money has to come from somewhere.
> ...


I have hope that Romney will be able to turn the economy around. I envision a leap in the stock market the day after the election - if he's elected. He's been able to turn failure into success before, and he is a devoted family man with faith in God. That gives me hope that he will help and not hurt.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Morning

One thing I am confident about is that the day it is announced that Romney won, all the money that can be spent to create jobs will be used. Entrepreneurs and those evil capitalists will start spending money because they will know what the tax situation will be, Obama Care will be gone, and they will no longer feel under attack for being successful. In addition, the pipeline will be started, jobs created, and our dependence on foreign oil will be minimized.


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## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

right on !!!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Morning
> 
> One thing I am confident about is that the day it is announced that Romney won, all the money that can be spent to create jobs will be used. Entrepreneurs and those evil capitalists will start spending money because they will know what the tax situation will be, Obama Care will be gone, and they will no longer feel under attack for being successful. In addition, the pipeline will be started, jobs created, and our dependence on foreign oil will be minimized.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Did anyone see Romney's interview on Meet the Press this Sunday? He gave credit to Obama for giving the go ahead to kill Bin Laden. Also said that he would close certain "loopholes" in the tax code that would affect the wealthy, in other words a tax increase. He said those things and more. I was watching the interview with conservative friends and they had a hard time listening too. He's the etch-a-sketch guy--listen to his speeches and interviews when he was running for governor of Mass. Pro-Choice, Pro-gay marriage, then Romneycare etc. He'll say and do anything to get elected.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> Did anyone see Romney's interview on Meet the Press this Sunday? He gave credit to Obama for giving the go ahead to kill Bin Laden. Also said that he would close certain "loopholes" in the tax code that would affect the wealthy, in other words a tax increase. He said those things and more. I was watching the interview with conservative friends and they had a hard time listening too. He's the etch-a-sketch guy--listen to his speeches and interviews when he was running for governor of Mass. Pro-Choice, Pro-gay marriage, then Romneycare etc. He'll say and do anything to get elected.


 As if Obama has not and won't


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

You can have the last word if you want. He's the one who called himself an etch-a-sketch.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> You can have the last word if you want. He's the one who called himself an etch-a-sketch.


I can't say that's all a bad thing if it means that he's open to options/opinions other than the ones he has. A true leader can't be so rigid in what they believe that they are not open to hearing from others what might, ultimately, be a better idea than the one they have.


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > You can have the last word if you want. He's the one who called himself an etch-a-sketch.
> ...


That's called "spin".


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> You can have the last word if you want. He's the one who called himself an etch-a-sketch.


Hum .... No. The comment was to explain why things change.

It was Eric Fehrnstrom (works for Romney), who provided the metaphor of the Etch a Sketch.

After the primary campaign, Fehrnstrom argued, everything changes, and he added: Its almost like an Etch a Sketch. You can kind of shake it up and we start all over again.


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Cherf said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > You can have the last word if you want. He's the one who called himself an etch-a-sketch.
> ...


Okay, not a direct quote from the EAS himself, but if the shoe fits...


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Shannon123 said:
> ...


That's called truth. Big difference if you ask me
At least his nose dosen't grow EVER time he opens his mouth


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Really, etch-a-sketch comment aside, if you saw the interview that I originally sited this Sunday on Meet The Press, you might be wondering "what does Mitt stand for?" again. This is why Republicans took so long to elect him their nominee--there's no telling what he will really do if he were to win this election.


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


That's a grown-up response. *sigh*


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > Shannon123 said:
> ...


Not the definition of 'spin' that I've seen and have known.

spin (spn) v. - To provide an interpretation of (a statement or event, for example), especially in a way meant to sway public opinion

Given the definition above, changing one's mind or views is not spin. A good example would be Clinton saying, " "It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is." THAT'S spin.


----------



## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

No -- my husband's business collapsed with the housing market. He's been out of work for months. He's also 62 which appears to be a problem for most employers to hire older but young at heart workers. I am our only means of income on a secretary's salary. My daughter and her two children live with us and she's been in school the last year to get her cosmetology degree. Going for her license exam this week. She gets no child support. I feel the weight of the world is on my shoulders. I pay more in taxes and healthcare costs, gas expenses for commuting, utilities are up...everything. This economy is killing me. We need fresh blood in the White House. Don't try to convince me otherwise, until you walk a mile in my shoes.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Fact even the liberal media shows his nose growing ever time he opens his mouth.
I would much rather have a president that s open to ideas other than his own. We don't need a dictator in Washington


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> No -- my husband's business collapsed with the housing market. He's been out of work for months. He's also 62 which appears to be a problem for most employers to hire older but young at heart workers. I am our only means of income on a secretary's salary. My daughter and her two children live with us and she's been in school the last year to get her cosmetology degree. Going for her license exam this week. She gets no child support. I feel the weight of the world is on my shoulders. I pay more in taxes and healthcare costs, gas expenses for commuting, utilities are up...everything. This economy is killing me. We need fresh blood in the White House. Don't try to convince me otherwise, until you walk a mile in my shoes.


You are so right. My husband is also over sixty and he has the same problem. A friends husband says 50 is the age where most become unmarketable.
New in November


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Yes, in many ways.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> from the EAS himself, but if the shoe fits...


Wasn't it Michelle Obama that say Obama's shoes were too small for him in her speech at the DNC?,

Now the Pres can afford properly fitting shoes.
Too bad, I'd like for Obama to be capable of using an EAS and turn his record around.

Guess we'll just have to rely on Romney to do it instead!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> This is why Republicans took so long to elect him their nominee---....


Really? Did I tell you that? I'm a registered Republican for this upcoming election, and I don't remember saying that.


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Cherf said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > This is why Republicans took so long to elect him their nominee---....
> ...


Why would I refer to YOU in particular??? Remember the primaries? They weren't that long ago.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Shannon123 said:
> ...


Yeah, I just voted in one a few days ago.

So, again, please clarify how YOU know why it took so long (your words) for MY party to choose our nominee for President?


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Cherf said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf said:
> ...


Pardon me.....You are insanely combative. Perhaps I opined in a way that didn't suit YOU! I have several republican friends and I happen to know that that is the case for them---the fact that his record as governor is a 180 from the platform he is running on now. I'm off this forum, because you are a bully!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Pardon me.....You are insanely combative. Perhaps I opined in a way that didn't suit YOU! I have several republican friends and I happen to know that that is the case for them---the fact that his record as governor is a 180 from the platform he is running on now. I'm off this forum, because you are a bully![/quote]

All see did was ask you to explain. There is nothing combative about that.
She is definitely not a bully, just tired of almighty liberals that are never wrong like most conservatives


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nonnie said:


> Fact even the liberal media shows his nose growing ever time he opens his mouth.
> I would much rather have a president that s open to ideas other than his own. We don't need a dictator in Washington


So would I, but last I heard Obama will be willing to have a bipartisian exchange if the republicans would agree to increase taxes. Doesn't sound so open minded to me.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> Remember the primaries? They weren't that long ago.


Cherf: Yeah, I just voted in one a few days ago.

So, again, please clarify how YOU know why it took so long (your words) for MY party to choose our nominee for President?[/quote]

Shannon123: Pardon me.....You are insanely combative. Perhaps I opined in a way that didn't suit YOU! I have several republican friends and I happen to know that that is the case for them---the fact that his record as governor is a 180 from the platform he is running on now. I'm off this forum, because you are a bully![/quote]

Cherf: Shannon123, I live in the state where and during the time when Romney was Governor of Mass. Your 'absolute' statements have no basis.

While your Republican friends feel that "the" Republicans took too long to nominate Romney, the Party nominated a candidate in the normal timeframe. You posted knowledge the Republicans took too long to nominate their candidate. I asked you "how" you knew.

So don't accuse me of being a bully; qualify your statements if you want to be taken seriously.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Shannon123 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Shannon123 said:
> ...


It's reallly tough to swallow when the tables are turned, isn't it?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Good grief, I go and get my fingers and toes done and look at all I missed. I guess maybe Shannon is our next contestant on "Wheel of Progressives". Spinning the wheel.............tick, tick, tick....landed on $500 billion dollars, and here is the clue: thing: 
__ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ .


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I can't even speak, I'm laughing too hard! :XD:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Are you going to solve it or am going to hear buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Are you going to solve it or am going to hear buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz?


Could you please play the Final Jeopardy music and pose it in the form of a question???


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey you Banana Head we are playing "Wheel of Progressives". Give me a letter.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hey you Banana Head we are playing "Wheel of Progressives". Give me a letter.


ROFLMBO!

uhhhhh....uhhhhh.....uhhhhhh Is there an "O"?????


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I'd like to buy a vowel............ A


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> I'd like to buy a vowel............ A


You can't go yet....it's still my turn! (stomp ing foot)


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

__ O __ __ __ __ __ A


----------



## MaryMargaret (Mar 7, 2012)

I just watched "Koch Brothers Exposed" on Netflix.

Horrifying. But explains a lot about what has been going on over the past 20 years.

David and Charles Koch inherited a fortune from their father, who earned it building an oil industry for Stalin. They are good long-term planners so the propganda campaigns ooze out gradually via bought-and-paid for spokespersons in "objective" mainstream media. Among their goals:

- eliminate social security
- re-segregate public schools and eventually abolish public education
- remove all regulation of business
- remove all laws designed to protect the environment

To boycott the products from Koch Industries and their subsidiaries such as Georgia Pacific would be a monumental task because they are so numerous.

Koch Industries is headquartered in Wichita, Kansas, which helps answer the question posed by a recent book entitled "What's the Matter with Kansas," exploring why the middle class votes against its own interests.

Among the guests at their frequent "summit meetings" are Supreme Court Justices Alito and Thomas.

Scott Walker and the Wisconsin public sector unions were a test case for a plan to decimate any remaning remnant of organized labor.

What is perhaps the most sinister Koch activity of all: Toward control of Americas intellectual life, they give lots of money to colleges and universities with stipulations for Koch influence on policies and hiring of faculty. To my consternation, one of these is MIT, here in my city, which has established a Koch Institute for Cancer Research with money from David Koch, prostate cancer survivor, who chairs the Institutes Leadership Council. According to its web site four of its faculty members are Nobel Prize winners.


Nothing new under the sun.

This morning I happened to be reading about the Highland Clearances of the 18th/19th century when absentee English landholders simply drove the people out of their homes and burned their houses and crops to make more land available for profitable sheep farming. Nothing about it was illegal under British law. Just raw power, the rich destroying the inconvenient poor.

In our more literate society of today, such goals require long, skilled propaganda campaigns seizing upon the fears and buried hates of ordinary persons, who are insecure in a changing world where white males no longer reign supreme. So the populace itself, against their own interests, is persuaded to promote these amoral goals as "the American Way" and to prevent "socialism." Having a black President and an economy so decimated by a previous puppet President that it's almost beyond repair, makes it a perfect moment to grab the power.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to buy a vowel............ A
> ...


Oh, ok, Barbara Ann....your turn!


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Is there an N?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Just heard on the radio that Obama doesn't even go to half of his national security daily meetings. I mean how many rounds of golf can you play? Bush attended it daily with the heads of the CIA, FBI and Homeland Security.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hey you Banana Head we are playing "Wheel of Progressives". Give me a letter.


Hey - did you just demand we "give" you something like you're entitled or sumpin'?

Back to the game .... T ..... :?:


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

who's turn to spin?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

__ O __ __ N __ __ A

NO "T" ha ha ha


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Just heard on the radio that Obama doesn't even go to half of his national security daily meetings. I mean how many rounds of golf can you play? Bush attended it daily with the heads of the CIA, FBI and Homeland Security.


He hasn't had ANY communciation with his jobs council for over SIX MONTHS. I guess he's too busy raising money for his failing campaign coffers.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Sorry, I was interrupted by one of those stupid infomercials again. 

"R" ?


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I'd like an S please.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

We haven't had a budget from this Administration in over 3.5 years which is agains't the law and Bydie is worried about Jobs - go figure!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Wiping mouth, eating venison chili


__ O __ __ N __ R A


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Sorry, I was interrupted by one of those stupid infomercials again.
> 
> "R" ?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Could I please have an "E". I don't have any money to buy it and I haven't worked for it, but afterall, I have 13 kids and I need to get my nails done!


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry, I was interrupted by one of those stupid infomercials again.
> ...


For Pete's sake I'm tired of paying for your Vowels!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

no E, you have lost your turn

Use the time to get a job so you can afford the $9.00 birth control pills at Walmart


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

what happened to my S???? I'm a working woman, and pay for my vowels!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> no E, you have lost your turn
> 
> Use the time to get a job so you can afford the $9.00 birth control pills at Walmart


You cold, uncaring, heartless, rich, bi...... uhhhhhh! You just want poor innocent children to starve! And our bridges to collapse, and, and, ME to get pregnant AGAIN!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

OOOOPPPPSSSSS sorry, was cleaning my gun


S O __ __ N __ R A


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > no E, you have lost your turn
> ...


you won't get pregnant if you put an asprin between your knees and don't let it fall. :shock:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

What is your point?


----------



## Shannon123 (Mar 9, 2012)

Tried to "unwatch" but apparently that is just temporary and I'm getting notifications again. So back to my original question before this digressed into a tomato/tomahto debate...Did anyone see Romney's interview on Meet the Press this Sunday? Seems he's backtracking on his original promise to repeal healthcare reform in its entirety, giving props to Obama for giving the orders to kill Bin Laden, and promising to close loopholes in the tax code that essentially means increasing taxes. HELLO?


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

it's just a way to prevent a pregnancy.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I have to duck out and run to the Post Office to send out my sales from eBay.

My name is Cheryl, I am a work-a-holic, a Republican and a business owner. Some may consider me wealthy. I count my Blessings. Please help me learn to play the Progressive Gravy Train Game when I return.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Shannon, I appreciate your need to express yourself,

but right now we are playing "Wheel of Progressives"

Do you have a letter guess?


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

is there a W ?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> what happened to my S???? I'm a working woman, and pay for my vowels!


Good ideas and suggestion are ignored. Stop your whining!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NOPE

Loss of turn, use this time to get a job.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> I have to duck out and run to the Post Office to send out my sales from eBay.
> 
> My name is Cheryl, I am a work-a-holic, a Republican and a business owner. So many consider me wealthy. I count my Blessing. Please help me learn to play the Progressive Gravy Train Game when I return.


Party pooper! You don't need to work. Apply for 99 weeks of unemployment! It's easy!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

May I have a free D since it doesn't cost anything???


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I KNOW the answer!!!! Must be a bad Progressive! That was fun....


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > I have to duck out and run to the Post Office to send out my sales from eBay.
> ...


OMG! that is so freaking true! I can't even get my head around 2 years of unemployment! And even as an employer, you dispute the claim because the employee walked out without notice, etc.....the get it anyway!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Slapping head,

Do you have a letter or are you just going to sit in front of the TV and order things from shopping networks? Oh that is right, you don't have a job, ergo no money.


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

how about a K ?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NOPE, now you have to pay me with your food stamps


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

CRAP! I was gonna go to the grocery store on my way home to get the dogs some fresh steak for dinner too. Now what am I gonna do?


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

maybe an F?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann

I've been told how to cheat. You should guess "Y".


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

:hunf: I'm starting to think this is not a real word. It's not suppose to be hard, or make me think, geezzzzzz! :roll:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

nope

more food stamps please, my dogs need a grooming.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Slapping head,
> 
> Do you have a letter or are you just going to sit in front of the TV and order things from shopping networks? Oh that is right, you don't have a job, ergo no money.


I said I wanted a FREE "D".


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Y ?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I've been bullied and am OUT of Here! Really, this time.


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Noooo! Us Massholes need to stick together! LOL


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

What do I get if I have the right answer? I'm not gonna do the right thing unless there's something in it for me!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

this is too painful

SOLYNDRA


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

and I'm rubbing elbows with you so I get some of that pie too!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Hey, game show host, post Bydie's answer correct answer and stop ignoring the truth!

Stop drinking your Kool Aid and give the aid she's entitled to!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Tomorrow I might come up with another spin, but dealing with you free loading banana heads has given me a headache. So off to the ER I go


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> this is too painful
> 
> SOLYNDRA


  don't know this one.


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I'm going home!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> What do I get if I have the right answer? I'm not gonna do the right thing unless there's something in it for me!


You cheat! No fair! I should' ve had more hints! I've got crooked toes!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

let me enlighten you darling

Solar Company that went under (dark) into the vast hole of green energy abyss of bankruptcy.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > this is too painful
> ...


It used to be a place for when the Sun does shine.

Now, you cannot see the light and you paid for it!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Tomorrow I might come up with another spin, but dealing with you free loading banana heads has given me a headache. So off to the ER I go


Don't suppress your feelings!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


Along with:
Beacon Power 43 M
NR1 Battery 118.5 M
A123 Battery 249 M
Fiskar Motor 529 M

All in that dark hole.....paid for courtesy of the US taxpayer! Good job, O!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Tomorrow I might come up with another spin, but dealing with you free loading banana heads has given me a headache. So off to the ER I go


Will you be recovered by then? Is it going to be "We're In JEOPARDY"? Huh? Huh?


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > Fact even the liberal media shows his nose growing ever time he opens his mouth.
> ...


His been real willing the last 3 1/2 years.
He kicks doors and throughs fits if he dosen't get his way. Then he does things with executive order and bypasses the law. He's real open minded
He also tells people the constitution gets in his dictorial way


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> let me enlighten you darling
> 
> Solar Company that went under (dark) into the vast hole of green energy abyss of bankruptcy.


Yes, they went bankrupt AFTER Obama gave them close to a billion dollars right before they went bankrupt. Now guess who is one of Obama's biggest campaign contributors...if you guess the ex-CEO of Solyndra, you'd be right!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > this is too painful
> ...


Don't feel bad or embarassed, Barbara Ann. There have been so many Obama spend thrift endeavors that it's hard to keep up with them all. :O)


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

And Obama can sure spin it to his advantage!!!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> And Obama can sure spin it to his advantage!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Thank you ladies the last several pages have made my day!


----------



## Txlvs2knit (Aug 12, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Thank you ladies the last several pages have made my day!


Me too!!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

It has been rather fun to read. I do have to point out that even though I didn't do anything to contribute to the game in any way, nobody told me what I gained in all of this. I mean do you really want me to go without something, even though I did nothing? I'm sure I can find SOMETHING that has gone wrong in my life at some point!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> Noooo! Us Massholes need to stick together! LOL


Barbara Ann, Hi! I never even realized until your comment that you live in MA too. Glad to know you! Love your avatar.


----------



## smc (Nov 27, 2011)

Just saw 2016. Scary movie.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

smc said:


> Just saw 2016. Scary movie.


I wouldn't have voted for obama the first time. I wasn't able to find out anything about him the first time around and what I know about him now is just plain scary. I would have voted for Hillary Clinton in a heart-beat.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Thank you ladies the last several pages have made my day!


Clint would be proud.


----------



## Sarah Jo (Nov 6, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Morning
> 
> One thing I am confident about is that the day it is announced that Romney won, all the money that can be spent to create jobs will be used. Entrepreneurs and those evil capitalists will start spending money because they will know what the tax situation will be, Obama Care will be gone, and they will no longer feel under attack for being successful. In addition, the pipeline will be started, jobs created, and our dependence on foreign oil will be minimized.


I so hope you are right. That would be wonderful. We need a positive change, something to give us hope. Thanks for your outlook. I pray you are right! :thumbup:  :lol:


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> smc said:
> 
> 
> > Just saw 2016. Scary movie.
> ...


That is part of the problem all his records are sealed and none of the current media tried to check anything about his background but there's plenty info out in the internet now


----------



## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > Noooo! Us Massholes need to stick together! LOL
> ...


I love your new Avatar! It's fitting for the sightings along the Cape this year! And I'm petrified of sharks! Yikes! :shock:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Such a sad day, but also a reaffirming one. Watching all the 9/11 coverage and remembering the horror and fear 11 years ago. But also knowing that God gave us the courage and fortitude to continue to be Americans

GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND GOD BLESS ALL HEROES OF THAT DAY

God watch over America, God remind us of the gifts you continue to give Americans. God, please keep us safe from Evil. God, please never let us forget our heroes. AMEN


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Such a sad day, but also a reaffirming one. Watching all the 9/11 coverage and remembering the horror and fear 11 years ago. But also knowing that God gave us the courage and fortitude to continue to be Americans
> 
> GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND GOD BLESS ALL HEROES OF THAT DAY
> 
> God watch over America, God remind us of the gifts you continue to give Americans. God, please keep us safe from Evil. God, please never let us forget our heroes. AMEN


Amen!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> I love your new Avatar! It's fitting for the sightings along the Cape this year! And I'm petrified of sharks! Yikes! :shock:


Sharks are everywhere this year, I know.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:



> Such a sad day, but also a reaffirming one. Watching all the 9/11 coverage and remembering the horror and fear 11 years ago. But also knowing that God gave us the courage and fortitude to continue to be Americans
> 
> GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND GOD BLESS ALL HEROES OF THAT DAY
> 
> God watch over America, God remind us of the gifts you continue to give Americans. God, please keep us safe from Evil. God, please never let us forget our heroes. AMEN


Amen


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I am watching the Pentagon Memorial Service. I am so appalled at Obama. He shows no respect. All he does is look around and rock back and forth, telling me how uncomfortable he is there. He is showing no sadness or respect. Thank God 11 years ago we had a man of character and a man that was proud to be an American. A man determined to protect us, not apologize for us.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am watching the Pentagon Memorial Service. I am so appalled at Obama. He shows no respect. All he does is look around and rock back and forth, telling me how uncomfortable he is there. He is showing no sadness or respect. Thank God 11 years ago we had a man of character and a man that was proud to be an American. A man determined to protect us, not apologize for us.


Did Obama just say "God Bless the memories of those we lost?"

Why not "God Bless those we lost!"


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > I am watching the Pentagon Memorial Service. I am so appalled at Obama. He shows no respect. All he does is look around and rock back and forth, telling me how uncomfortable he is there. He is showing no sadness or respect. Thank God 11 years ago we had a man of character and a man that was proud to be an American. A man determined to protect us, not apologize for us.
> ...


It doesn't really matter what he says. Not one shred of truth comes out of his mouth. His lies will catch up with him. Unfortunately, there are so many that can't look past the color of his skin to see what a horrible man he truly is.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Why are you shocked at that? He nearly choked on the words. His words were without passion or pride. He had to say God, because he would have been slammed. But if he were a man of honor, and he did not believe in God, so be it and not invoke His name. But he is nothing but an empty socialist suit, marching towards World Order. I watched his body language, and that spoke volumes about his lack of character. 

Oh great now Biden is going to speak.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why are you shocked at that? He nearly choked on the words. His words were without passion or pride. He had to say God, because he would have been slammed. But if he were a man of honor, and he did not believe in God, so be it and not invoke His name. But he is nothing but an empty socialist suit, marching towards World Order. I watched his body language, and that spoke volumes about his lack of character.
> 
> Oh great now Biden is going to speak.


People keep saying he is a Christian, but we know better. You can go to a church, but that dosen't make you a Christian, especially where the pastor damns God, and this country. Christian my ___.
God bless the people that die on 9-11-2001' their family's and their friends
Never forget especially this November 6th
God bless the USA


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

To those who find fault with the Brush Administration.

I remember because of 9/11 his speech that moved us all even the Democratic party. It help us to go on.


----------



## comebackknitter (Oct 9, 2011)

We are not better off than 4 years ago. Gasoline has doubled, groceries are much more expensive. This is difficult on a fixed income and we are dipping in to savings. However, on a positive note it has forced us to become creative (more work for me as we do not go out very often and I cook more at home) I clip cupons, eat less meat, bundle shopping trips, shop at salvation army for clothes (havent been lucky enough to get yarn). Also shop at dollar store and made my own soap for clothes washing. Love to hang sheets to dry outside on my deck. Let my hair grow into a pony tail, and dye it myself.


----------



## comebackknitter (Oct 9, 2011)

Tax cuts for the wealthy would only last 8 days. We need other cuts, government is too big.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

comebackknitter said:


> We are not better off than 4 years ago. Gasoline has doubled, groceries are much more expensive. This is difficult on a fixed income and we are dipping in to savings. However, on a positive note it has forced us to become creative (more work for me as we do not go out very often and I cook more at home) I clip cupons, eat less meat, bundle shopping trips, shop at salvation army for clothes (havent been lucky enough to get yarn). Also shop at dollar store and made my own soap for clothes washing. Love to hang sheets to dry outside on my deck. Let my hair grow into a pony tail, and dye it myself.


Well there is always a silver lining to all things Good for you I too am and always have been thrifty I cut DH's hair shop at thrifts watch for grocery sales buy extra when cans and non perishibles are offered. Keep up the good work even with all this its hard to stretch our fixed income.


----------



## comebackknitter (Oct 9, 2011)

We own GM. They are selling the Volt for 33,000; however it cost 89,000 to make. Whats wrong with this picture?


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

We have a store called Grocery Outlet and I always begin there for staples, canned goods, etc (i.e Campbell's Mushroom Soup at $.89 a can) and if I can't find there go on to Safeway...and there shop specials. We lost a lot of income in the housing bust, and our home is worth $200,000 less than we paid for it.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

comebackknitter said:


> We own GM. They are selling the Volt for 33,000; however it cost 89,000 to make. Whats wrong with this picture?


 :thumbup: 
BTW, beautiful watercolor sunflower. Hurray for Kansas! Lived there and loved it!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

gma11331 said:


> We have a store called Grocery Outlet and I always begin there for staples, canned goods, etc (i.e Campbell's Mushroom Soup at $.89 a can) and if I can't find there go on to Safeway...and there shop specials. We lost a lot of income in the housing bust, and our home is worth $200,000 less than we paid for it.


THANK YOU, Barney Frank and Chris Dodd!!!!!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!


I cannot even go here. My husband, who made Chief, in the US Air Force, retired as the USAF Band Manager. I know all about the drastic cuts to all the military services and the effects.

My heart bleeds for this disgrace.

When I buried, in Jan 2010, my veteran USAF Dad, God rest his Soul, a lone bugler and color guard were present.

That is one of the most beautiful and perfect memories I have of that day and will be forever grateful it was so.

I had several mourners on that day tell me it was the most respectful and beautiful funereal and service they had ever attended. I found their comments "strange" at the time but understand perfectly what was meant by their comments.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!
> ...


thanks joeysomma I still can't copy and paste. Lol


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

What a disservice to our Veterans. My father in law is 87 years old and he has earned the right for a proper military funeral when his time comes

Thank our veterans for our freedom


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> To those who find fault with the Brush Administration.
> 
> I remember because of 9/11 his speech that moved us all even the Democratic party. It help us to go on.


 Same people that blame the war on Bush, even thou Hillary Clinton, John Kerry and the rest of the democratic senators voted and approved that war.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!
> ...


When my daddy died he had Taps played on a tape recorder but still were happy to have a vets service. Still tears me up to drive up at the graveyard and see the military waiting on us. When they handed my mother the flag! God Bless our Mititary and our country!!!! One Nation Under God! The Almightly One and only!


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!


??????? how can that be???????


----------



## comebackknitter (Oct 9, 2011)

Thanks for the compliment on my watercolor...another savings is not to enroll in painting classes...but, thats okay because now Im knitting. Kansas is still in a drought, we have lost a few trees, but we have very good drinking water here!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Who wants to play "Jeopardy"


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Here is something crazy. http://www.military.com/military-report/no-more-taps-in-new-york-stated?ESRC=mitrep.nl No more taps played? What a disgrace!
> ...


The cuts to the military budgets are so deep, there is only taped recordings available in MA. Has been that way here for years.
To think the birthplace of America does not wish to afford a bugler at a Vet's service is unspeakable.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Guess who will not be paid and suffers the deepest cuts and loss of funding if sequestration takes hold come January? BTW: it is conveniently AFTER the Presidential election - any doubt how that happened? 

Obama wanted to hold pay for the US military when no agreement could reached to increase the debt limit for the 4th time in Obama's last full year.

Let's remember the Patriots not only today but everyday.

I am sick and tired of hearing, "I support the troops, just not the war."


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> gma11331 said:
> 
> 
> > We have a store called Grocery Outlet and I always begin there for staples, canned goods, etc (i.e Campbell's Mushroom Soup at $.89 a can) and if I can't find there go on to Safeway...and there shop specials. We lost a lot of income in the housing bust, and our home is worth $200,000 less than we paid for it.
> ...


Yep...


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Cherf said:


> scottishlass said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


I agree


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Guess who will not be paid and suffers the deepest cuts and loss of funding if sequestration takes hold come January? BTW: it is conveniently AFTER the Presidential election - any doubt how that happened?
> 
> Obama wanted to hold pay for the US military when no agreement could reached to increase the debt limit for the 4th time in Obama's last full year.
> 
> ...


BY LAW, sequestration is supposed to be announced at least 60 days before it goes into effect which would put it BEFORE the election. The Obamination is trying to block it's announcment until AFTER the election.


----------



## scottishlass (Jul 12, 2012)

Bydie said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Guess who will not be paid and suffers the deepest cuts and loss of funding if sequestration takes hold come January? BTW: it is conveniently AFTER the Presidential election - any doubt how that happened?
> ...


He should be requied to do this on TIME!!!! it affects many lives and folks need time to prepare not just be left in the lurch


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

scottishlass said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf said:
> ...


Absolutely....but who will make him? Holder (The Joke)???


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Who wants to play "Jeopardy"


Me! Me! Me!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> BY LAW, sequestration is supposed to be announced at least 60 days before it goes into effect which would put it BEFORE the election. The Obamination is trying to block it's announcment until AFTER the election.


Yep - O is up against McCain on this one. Obama regularly ignores the law so I'm not surprised this time either.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Here comes Jeopardy......

Tonight's category is: Politicians that have been expelled, censored, reprimanded or held in contempt of court or Congress

Our first clue for 200

Blue dress


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Here comes Jeopardy......
> 
> Tonight's category is: Politicians that have been expelled, censored, reprimanded or held in contempt of court or Congress
> 
> ...


Hey now, I know we're banana heads, but really!!!! Couldn't you do better than that????


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Here comes Jeopardy......
> ...


all right! Who is John Edwards?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

not, sorry you are -200


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Here comes Jeopardy......
> 
> Tonight's category is: Politicians that have been expelled, censored, reprimanded or held in contempt of court or Congress
> 
> ...


No! Wait! I take it back! Who is BILL CLINTON!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Here comes Jeopardy......
> 
> Tonight's category is: Politicians that have been expelled, censored, reprimanded or held in contempt of court or Congress
> 
> ...


Bill Clinton


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Are you keeping score or do you trust us to keep our own?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Here comes Jeopardy......
> ...


Oops...who is Bill Clinton?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Correct


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Here comes Jeopardy......
> ...


It has to be in the form of a question Thump!!!!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Question for 400

outbursts towards Obama during a joint session of Congress


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

As the Queen of the Banana Heads and wearer of "the red Prada shoes" I admit an error, and beg forgiveness


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Question for 400
> 
> outbursts towards Obama during a joint session of Congress


Who is "You Lie"? (can't think of his name but he was telling the TRUTH)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> As the Queen of the Banana Heads and wearer of "the red Prada shoes" I admit an error, and beg forgiveness


ok...If I get to wear the shoes for 1 hour!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Who is Joe Roberts?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

not


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

No, Who is Joe Wilson? Chief Roberts was at the State address and I merged the names!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> No, Who is Joe Wilson? Chief Roberts was at the State address and I merged the names!


That's called covering all your bases! :O)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > No, Who is Joe Wilson? Chief Roberts was at the State address and I merged the names!
> ...


Don't I get ANYTHING for "sorta" getting it right?????


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

you are correct

Next clue in a half hour....................the Queen needs dinner


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > No, Who is Joe Wilson? Chief Roberts was at the State address and I merged the names!
> ...


Hey, B head, remember who has possession of those shoes?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> you are correct
> 
> Next clue in a half hour....................the Queen needs dinner


Venison chili again tonight?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf said:
> ...


LOL!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I'm heading to dinner too. Bye, Bye, Love and Bydie.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Sarah Jo said:


> travelingal said:
> 
> 
> > After reading all the "negatives" above, aren't we lucky to have SSI, Social Security and Medicare, not to mention the new Health Care? Outsourcing has caused a lot of us to lose our jobs, but things ARE getting better and our government is our safety net. Also note that those of us who lost money in the market are getting it back double now!
> ...


I already can't find a doctor who takes Medicare - and I was looking at Emory University Hospital in Atlanta - very prestigious. I'm not looking forward to Obamacare, would rather see us keep the good parts (like insuring those who have pre-existing conditions) and get rid of the bad (like commissions deciding what treatment a doctor can give). That's what Romney wants to do.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Shannon123 said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone see Romney's interview on Meet the Press this Sunday? He gave credit to Obama for giving the go ahead to kill Bin Laden. Also said that he would close certain "loopholes" in the tax code that would affect the wealthy, in other words a tax increase. He said those things and more. I was watching the interview with conservative friends and they had a hard time listening too. He's the etch-a-sketch guy--listen to his speeches and interviews when he was running for governor of Mass. Pro-Choice, Pro-gay marriage, then Romneycare etc. He'll say and do anything to get elected.
> ...


Obama wants to "transform" America into a socialist state. I love my country and its "you can do it" mentality. I don't want it to change. No Obama for me under any circumstances.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Morning
> 
> One thing I am confident about is that the day it is announced that Romney won, all the money that can be spent to create jobs will be used. Entrepreneurs and those evil capitalists will start spending money because they will know what the tax situation will be, Obama Care will be gone, and they will no longer feel under attack for being successful. In addition, the pipeline will be started, jobs created, and our dependence on foreign oil will be minimized.


 Won't that be a happy day!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey, it took 11 pages to explain what a full time worker is by the Obama Admin and the IRS. 11 pages............God help us


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Clue for 600

improper solicitation of funds, inaccurate financial disclosure, and failure to pay taxes


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/netanyahu-obama-israel-nuclear/2012/09/11/id/451404?s=al&promo_code=1008A-1

Be afraid for the US and Israel. Those of us how were horrified at Obama's treatment of Israel, warned the rest of you.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Clue for 600
> 
> improper solicitation of funds, inaccurate financial disclosure, and failure to pay taxes


who is Charlie Rangel?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > Shannon123 said:
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Yes you are correct

Well done


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Next clue for 800

fixed parking ticket and influenced probation officer for a friend


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Yes you are correct
> 
> Well done


Actually, that was an easy one. It could have been just about any Dem in Congress or any of the Obomination appointees in the Cabinet.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Next clue for 800
> 
> fixed parking ticket and influenced probation officer for a friend


Don't know. They both sound too minor for a Dem. Are you sure that wasn't Aaarnold?

Where are the rest of the Banana heads????


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

nope, had to stand in "the well" and take it


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> nope, had to stand in "the well" and take it


Who's Nancy Pelosi?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

nope


----------



## bevqual (May 9, 2011)

No- we are definitely not better off. We started an insurance business 5 years ago--it went well for a couple of years, but in the past 3 years things have been downhill. So many people here have lost jobs and moved to another state trying to find work. Or they sell cars so they can feed their family.
We are working 4 jobs between the 2 of us, and still hardly pay the mortgage each month. 

We have had some tough medical situations... and since we have t buy our own insurance, that's super expensive-- $1400 a month for 3 of us, and then $1500 deductible. Well, any how it's been tough but we have each other and we can pull through anything. Can't wait to vote in November!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Next clue for 800
> ...


Who are the Banana heads?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

As their Queen, I will speak.

We are a group of like minded women, that want to start our own society, and wear Prada shoes, because we are worth it. Some of us have been labeled as Lucifer, and we all know the devil wears Prada. snickering.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> As their Queen, I will speak.
> 
> We are a group of like minded women, that want to start our own society, and wear Prada shoes, because we are worth it. Some of us have been labeled as Lucifer, and we all know the devil wears Prada. snickering.


Or, Thumper, according to the black virus Liberal/Progessives, also known as the ignorant, uneducated, racist, backward thinking, Bible thumping, haters of Obama, hard working, patriotic CONSERVATIVES!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

AND, I give up on that question....even Google doesn't know....and at the same time, I apologize for mocking your first question. 

Thumper, wanna be a Banana Head with the rest of us? :O)


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

We still need an answer


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

BTW, LovetheLake, how did YOU get to be Queen? George Soros have anything to do with that???


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Barney Frank !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 1990


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> We still need an answer


Who is Harry Reid? There!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Final clue:

disbarred, had an affair, lied, ...................


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Final clue:
> 
> disbarred, had an affair, lied, ...................


who is John Edwards?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

WTG Birdie

I thought the love child would make it too easy. But then again Bill Clinton could have also been a repeat answer.

Have a great night all B.H's


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> WTG Birdie
> 
> I thought the love child would make it too easy. But then again Bill Clinton could have also been a repeat answer.
> 
> Have a great night all B.H's


Good night....and I think we need to go back to the Wheel of Misfortune. My idea of Jeopardy was a BUST! But The Queen did well! :thumbup:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> AND, I give up on that question....even Google doesn't know....and at the same time, I apologize for mocking your first question.
> 
> Thumper, wanna be a Banana Head with the rest of us? :O)


Well, I was thinking, according to the definition provided, that I was already one of the bunch. But, no Prada for me. They make my feet hurt which in turn makes me crabby.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

As the Queen, all you have to say that you have them to wear while in my presence and sitting down. We do have our standards and rules.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Next clue for 800
> ...


Who are the Banana heads?[/quote]

Thumper! >> Smack to the head<<

What are you thinking? The 'Queen' asks the questions - the Banana Heads (that would be you) try to answer.

No Banana Head fixed parking fines and influenced an officer of the law!!!! Stopping asking the ? and straighten up on your answers.

"Who" is NOT the Banana Heads!

Observe Bydie, she's good at this game.

Sigh ....


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > As their Queen, I will speak.
> ...


A D D I T I O N S to above : We 'started' our own society already.... affectionally known as the Banana Heads to date.

also called rich and people starvers and ignore facts 'cause we can


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


Thumper! >> Smack to the head<<

What are you thinking? The 'Queen' asks the questions - the Banana Heads (that would be you) try to answer.

No Banana Head fixed parking fines and influenced an officer of the law!!!! Stopping asking the ? and straighten up on your answers.

"Who" is NOT the Banana Heads!

Observe Bydie, she's good at this game.

Sigh ....[/quote]

Sigh, indeed! I wanna go back to Wheel of Misfortune. Thumper, thank you for your support and please help me tomorrow! :O)


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Now Cherf, play nice. We all can't be part of the Queen's Court. We need Court Jesters to crack me up. We have Fools (the progressives). Who else do we need? Thumper are you volunteering for a royal assignment?


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Thumper, wanna be a Banana Head with the rest of us? :O)


Well, I was thinking, according to the definition provided, that I was already one of the bunch. But, no Prada for me. They make my feet hurt which in turn makes me crabby.[/quote]

Thumper You'll need to check page 21 of the "Did Anyone See the Democratic Convention" thread to understand how to act like one of the bunch of Banana Heads.

Don't kick the shoes under your bed until you see these things.


----------



## SueLD (Jun 22, 2012)

No! I won't get into it but we are hurting. Many years of hard work -- gone.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Now Cherf, play nice. We all can't be part of the Queen's Court. We need Court Jesters to crack me up. We have Fools (the progressives). Who else do we need? Thumper are you volunteering for a royal assignment?


Sorry, my Queen, forgot my place. Bowing out now ......


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/netanyahu-obama-israel-nuclear/2012/09/11/id/451404?s=al&promo_code=1008A-1
> 
> Be afraid for the US and Israel. Those of us how were horrified at Obama's treatment of Israel, warned the rest of you.


 :thumbup: ;-) :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Yea for the banana heads,prada shoe wearing group long may they rein, and also the queen....


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

The Queen thanks you, 

Have a great night, all. This country bumpkin will be signing off soon. OH, maybe I should not say that, the Progressives will reek havoc on our Kingdom. So be strong, and wear your shoes proudly.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yea for the banana heads,prada shoe wearing group long may they rein, and also the queen....


I need a royal assignment. I'll go get my pradas


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Now Cherf, play nice. We all can't be part of the Queen's Court. We need Court Jesters to crack me up. We have Fools (the progressives). Who else do we need? Thumper are you volunteering for a royal assignment?


Do we need dancing girls??? And serfs?

<We have Fools (the progressives)> ROFL


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yea for the banana heads,prada shoe wearing group long may they rein, and also the queen....


LOL!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Now Cherf, play nice. We all can't be part of the Queen's Court. We need Court Jesters to crack me up. We have Fools (the progressives). Who else do we need? Thumper are you volunteering for a royal assignment?


What openings are available?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> wear your shoes proudly.


I looked at some Prada shoes on the web. If I fell and broke my ankle again (hence the thumper moniker) the heels on the shoes could double as knitting needles.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > wear your shoes proudly.
> ...


You could also file for Workers Comp if you were a dancing girl in the court!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hey, it took 11 pages to explain what a full time worker is by the Obama Admin and the IRS. 11 pages............God help us


Pray and vote!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Prada knitting needles.................


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Prada knitting needles.................


New product line!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Shoes with matching and coordinating needles for all the Banana Heads of the world.............life is good


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I want to be a banana head, BUT I don't meet all the requirements............I'm not rich!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Would love to have you. Will keep looking on eBay and see if I can get you a deal on a pair. Maybe the Treasury can create a Lay A Way plan. Or you can wait until Romney gets elected and things will improve.


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## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Sarah Jo said:
> 
> 
> > travelingal said:
> ...


Emory Hospital although very good, is a teaching hospital. If you don't mind being a guinea pig it's great. My mother had an inoperable tumor on her breastbone. They said she could live 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months, but they took 3 days to give her pain meds and x-rays to find out what was the problem. Then they said even though inoperable, they wanted to do a biopsy to see what kind of cancer it was. She said no way. She was in the hospital on Monday and died on Sat. night. She wasn't going to let them cut on her for 'practice' sake. She worked for Drs. her whole working life and knew when she went into the hospital she wasn't going to come out alive. She waited, she knew she was dying and wanted to go her way, not according to the Drs. way. Some Drs think they're God. Do your research before choosing a hospital.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Sarah Jo said:
> ...


Do your research is right! We have had great treatment for my husband's rare form of leukemia. A week in the hospital for 24/7 chemo, then remission. A caring doctor who is almost as happy about the results as we are. On the other hand, outpatient experience there for bladder tumor was a nightmare. Even the patient advocate agreed and had the head of the "Same Day Care" department contact me. It was same day, but definitely NOT care. So - hospital with a great reputation but not perfect by any means. Another thing - I'd heard that teaching hospitals are the best because they're up to date on everything. But who wants to be a practice patient? I think they have to get your permission first. I'm sorry about your mother. It's hard on us when we lose our mothers. Very helpless feeling.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> I want to be a banana head, BUT I don't meet all the requirements............I'm not rich!


Hi Barbara Ann, Re-read the by-laws. You don't HAVE to be rich, you just have to let others call you rich.

You know, ignore any facts, just let others say what they want of you so the LameStream Media can talk about you on their TV channels.

The Red Prada Shoe fits you! Tell the Queen your size now.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Speaking about excellent care. I was in the local ER at 3:30 AM this morning and received EXCELLENT care! 

DH thought I may be having a heart problem as I had such acute pain on my left side I couldn't even lie down, sit up or basically move.

I thought it was a pulled muscle (R E A L L Y ) pulled and it is.

They'll let me buy some great narcotics to stop the pain but haven't tried that stuff yet.

One of the benefits of living in MA is the choice of some of the finest hospitals in the US. I'm glad I am part of the system.

Although retired military, the service was superb. It helped I was the sole person seeking care at the local ER. 

Although I pay for my insurance, my 2nd ever, ER experience gives me hope but also taught me what I could loose and what is at stake in the upcoming election.

Team Romney!


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Barbara Ann said:
> 
> 
> > I want to be a banana head, BUT I don't meet all the requirements............I'm not rich!
> ...


Ok! Then I fit perfectly. Others have called me rich. Little do they know!
:mrgreen:


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

My red Prada shoes are size 8
I like being considered rich even if I'm not


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Riches come in many forms...I can't wear pretty shoes as my feet are screwed up, but my heart is with you...


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

gma11331 said:


> Riches come in many forms...I can't wear pretty shoes as my feet are screwed up, but my heart is with you...


Do Prada red shoes with knitting needle heels come in size 13? Remember I'm Big Foot and my toes are crooked.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hummmmmmmmmmmmm what is a Queen to do? Rules are rules, but then would I fit the stereo type of the evil Republican that wants dirty air, dirty water, hate children, hate the disabled, love guns, the less gas mileage on my SUV the better........................

But, how about if we paint on shoes that look like Prada's so that a man on a fast horse would not be able to tell?

Exhausted, being the Queen is not easy, but if the crown fits........


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am AFRAID for my country.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hummmmmmmmmmmmm what is a Queen to do? Rules are rules, but then would I fit the stereo type of the evil Republican that wants dirty air, dirty water, hate children, hate the disabled, love guns, the less gas mileage on my SUV the better........................
> 
> But, how about if we paint on shoes that look like Prada's so that a man on a fast horse would not be able to tell?
> 
> Exhausted, being the Queen is not easy, but if the crown fits........


Hang in there Queen. You can do it and we need you to be strong. Does that mean we can even paint our Pradas purple?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Well poop, let's just break all the rules. 

Started a thread, were we attacked again on 9/11


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well poop, let's just break all the rules.
> 
> Started a thread, were we attacked again on 9/11


YES! And any IDIOT could see it. Unless you're distracted by your ego and are on your way to Nevada to conduct a fund raiser!!!!!!!

And unless you're the biggest piece of digusting CRAP ever to sit in the Oval Office. Sorry, I've been holding this in all day. Don't get me started on how I really feel!!!


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am AFRAID for my country.


Me, too. Some reasons why stated here:

The Obama Bounce Fades
By DICK MORRIS
Published on DickMorris.com on September 12, 2012

The post convention bounce that led to jubilation in the mainstream media has exhausted itself and Romney is coming back strongly. Having shown Obama as much as four points ahead of Romney in the immediate aftermath of the Conventions, Rasmussen now has the president down to a one point margin: Obama: 46 Romney: 45.

Instead, the fundamental flaws of the Democratic strategy are emerging: By tying the race to unrealistic expectations of economic recovery, Obama has mortgaged his re-election campaign to the dismal monthly and weekly economic data that assaults us constantly.

And the days after his convention recessed have not been good for President Obama. Instead of strong executive leadership, we are seeing a world and a country in chaos while the president campaigns.

 Libya, which we liberated at a cost of over one billion dollars and at the risk of our military men and women, now fails to protect our embassy against Islamist extremists. Our ambassador is assassinated in a terrorist attack.

 Egypt, the recipient of $1.3 billion of U.S. aid permits a mob to storm our embassy in Cairo and burn our flag. Our embassy issues a statement calling an independent film privately produced in the United States "an abuse of the First Amendment" rather than making clear that free speech in America is nobody's business but our own.

 The president, continuing to bet on improving our image in the Muslim world, refuses to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu during his forthcoming visit to the United States.

 Meanwhile, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, who masqueraded as a friend of Israel when she served in the Senate from New York, declares that there are no "red lines" constraining Iranian nuclear ambitions. They can, essentially, do whatever they want without triggering an American military response. And, despite Egyptian re-militarization of the Sinai and its increasing repudiation of the Camp David Accords, she approves additional aid and credits for Cairo.

 The Federal Reserve Board warns of an impending economic catastrophe as Bob Woodward's new book excoriates the Administration for failing to conclude -- or even seriously to pursue -- a long term debt and deficit reduction agreement.

 In Chicago, Obama's political base, the schools are closed and the teachers -- among the most highly paid in America -- are on strike to protest the Mayor's outrageous demand that their pay be based on their performance.

And through it all, there is no presidential leadership. He's too busy raising money to run ads so he can tell us what a great leader he is.

Everywhere we see, in ruins, Obama's plans for our country. His foreign policy has encouraged revolutions that have brought our worst enemies to power in the Middle East while his environmental policies have tried -- fortunately without success -- to limit our domestic production of energy. His education reforms have no teeth and he sits by passively as they are challenged by his own local teachers union.

Credit much of the quick end to his bounce to Romney's ads which, right off the bat after the Democratic Convention closed, rapped Obama for trying to convince us that we are better off than we were four years ago. Obama's campaign essentially poses the question: What will you believe -- your own eyes or my speeches?

And the polls show that the spellbinding power of his teleprompter-eloquence has a shorter and shorter half life.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Well, don't hold back, please I would really like to know how you are feeling


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

:thumbup: 
The Obama "bump" came because of Clinton's 
speech. HE was the one receiving the adulation (Heaven help us!...what have we come to?). Hopefully, voters will realize that Clinton's not running, Obama (Heaven help us) is. 
The only reason Clinton is endorsing Obama is that he knows that if Romney wins, Hillary will have no chance in 2016.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

good point


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Go Cherf! You sure you don't want to run or at least stump for Mitt?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Go Cherf! You sure you don't want to run or at least stump for Mitt?


I think she should!!!


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Nonnie said:


> Go Cherf! You sure you don't want to run or at least stump for Mitt?


Hi Nonnie I support him by attending his rallies in NH and MA and with financial support. Not sure I'd be an asset as I'd probably give any lobbyist my piece of mind.

I'd love to be a Senator but just to run in my state of residence requires $5M+. I went to a "how to run" seminar and learned it is all about who raises the most money in this state.

Thanks for your vote of confidence though!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Not sure I'd be an asset as I'd probably give any lobbyist my piece of mind.>

I'd be in jail because I'd hit someone in the head with my knitting bag. :O)


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Nonnie said:
> 
> 
> > Go Cherf! You sure you don't want to run or at least stump for Mitt?
> ...


Thanks Bydie - but I don't see it happening.

DH and I did get to meet Romney in NH a couple of months ago and we each got to say a few words to him on the handshake line. He was a class act and thanked my husband for his service in the military.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

About our ambassada ( for give spelling I am so off the wall mad. 
Our state capitol news reporter on one station and I quote said that the muslam who did this were moderate, egads, what are the lkidda Wrong speelling again.
We paid to free these people and this is how we are repaid, by a bunch of moderate muslams. Please where are these news casters brains. I can't even look in dictionary to find words to spell right. Burn our flag, and then kill and then soon put your hand out woe is me woe is me help us again America.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am AFRAID for my country.


 I am too. Starting to get more scare after today!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey I used to live in "taxachuchettes", so you have to be rich

If it makes you feel better, when I lived there Romney was running for Senate against Kennedy. I had a bumper sticker that said:

HELP US HELP HIM, RETIRE TED


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> :thumbup:
> The Obama "bump" came because of Clinton's
> speech. HE was the one receiving the adulation (Heaven help us!...what have we come to?). Hopefully, voters will realize that Clinton's not running, Obama (Heaven help us) is.
> The only reason Clinton is endorsing Obama is that he knows that if Romney wins, Hillary will have no chance in 2016.


Amen sisterly! That is the truth!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

See you in the morning, need to run a few errands. If I get home early, I'll check in

Be well and God bless


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Heard a good quote today. "There is NO excuse for the ravages of savages."


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> About our ambassada ( for give spelling I am so off the wall mad.
> Our state capitol news reporter on one station and I quote said that the muslam who did this were moderate, egads, what are the lkidda Wrong speelling again.
> We paid to free these people and this is how we are repaid, by a bunch of moderate muslams. Please where are these news casters brains. I can't even look in dictionary to find words to spell right. Burn our flag, and then kill and then soon put your hand out woe is me woe is me help us again America.


Know exactly how you feel, yarnlady. I've been shaking all day.


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## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Heard a good quote today. "There is NO excuse for the ravages of savages."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > :thumbup:
> ...


Love your new avatar! Great afghan! :thumbup:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> See you in the morning, need to run a few errands. If I get home early, I'll check in
> 
> Be well and God bless


Drive carefully!


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hey I used to live in "taxachuchettes", so you have to be rich.
> 
> If it makes you feel better, when I lived there Romney was running for Senate against Kennedy. I had a bumper sticker that said:
> 
> HELP US HELP HIM, RETIRE TED


Lovethelake - I didn't know you are a local gal removed!

Me, rich? Depends on what your definition of "rich" is I guess! 

OK, no one will like this but it is the truth. When I graduated from High School, I placed 2nd in my class. I was given the responsibility to introduce Sen. Edward (Ted) Kennedy who was the keynote speaker at our graduation.

I, being an Independent, and my Dad, a Republican who did not like the Kennedy family's record in MA at all, decided I'd do the best job I could introducing him. So, I gathered all the pertinent info and wrote the best introduction I could with my Dad's help.

Sen Kennedy, the class president, the 1st and 2nd class students were seated on the stage. I took the podium and delivered my intro. No response from Kennedy. I prompted him again with a brief ad lib; no response.

I finally walked over to him and shook him awake as he fell asleep in his chair. He was drunk and asleep and did not do himself proud that day.

Needless to say, my experience and opinions of the Kennedy family got off to a very rough start.

But - my parents were never more proud of me - or so they said!

It was also a disaster for me at my sister's graduation. 
Hence, the beginning of why everyone loves to be around me for excitement!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

And another thing I want the whole goverment dismissed either that or let them learn how to work, how about low paying jobs, serve on the front line with our men in war. Be ambassadors to Libya Iran Iraq for one year and no protection, better yet let them live as a homeless person.
We pay our taxes and pay again.
They better not be in control of health care if it is anything like what they have already done with social security, post office ect. It will be gone in one year ever penny we have paid in.
Doesn't anyone get it yet are you better off. In the year 2013 social security will be broke. Then what will you do???
Expect them to give you money they don't have by taxing you more. Where are the brains in Washington. 
So I am so mad about what has happen to that poor man and what his family must feel, and a goverment that can't even pass a budget, and will cut our servicemens pay, but it's o.k. that these men are putting their lives on the line but they don't deserve pay. They come home and can't even get help. What is that about. 
As Clint said they work for us. When are they going too?????.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

O.k. now I have vented I am sorry I spoiled everones day. But I am fed up to the wazoo with these idiots. Thank you for putting up with my rant. Theyarnlady


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

At least Teddy was just drunk and didn't offer you a ride home!

Sooooo...tease....what happened at your sister's graduation?.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> O.k. now I have vented I am sorry I spoiled everones day. But I am fed up to the wazoo with these idiots. Thank you for putting up with my rant. Theyarnlady


No apologies needed....we can all relate. Glad to have you aboard! Oh and it's OK to be nice too! :O)


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> At least Teddy was just drunk and didn't offer you a ride home!
> 
> Sooooo...tease....what happened at your sister's graduation?.


You know, there is a good joke here about bridge building but I won't go there!

I'm heading to dinner with DH (his B'day today), so will answer later.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Can't wait to hear about the graduation!!


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## SueLD (Jun 22, 2012)

I would like to hear that our President has given our CIA permission to release our important papers on our country and world affairs to Mr. Romney; as this is law after conventions. I would like to hear Romney speak on this recent news from Egypt and Lybia with the CIA's info. I am thankful that when Mr. Romney speaks I do understand clearly what he states. I may not agree with him but I do understand him. I do not feel I have to strain my brain picking up certain words that could be harmful to me and my fellow Americans. I'm very disappointed that our President allows a person from Iran whom is THREATENING our country, to come into our country for exercising that person's "free speech rights". I just don't understand?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

SueLD said:


> I would like to hear that our President has given our CIA permission to release our important papers on our country and world affairs to Mr. Romney; as this is law after conventions. I would like to hear Romney speak on this recent news from Egypt and Lybia with the CIA's info. I am thankful that when Mr. Romney speaks I do understand clearly what he states. I may not agree with him but I do understand him. I do not feel I have to strain my brain picking up certain words that could be harmful to me and my fellow Americans. I'm very disappointed that our President allows a person from Iran whom is THREATENING our country, to come into our country for exercising that person's "free speech rights". I just don't understand?


 :thumbup: Since Obama doesn't attend National Security meetings (too busy campaigning and fund raising), any thing Romney learned would be more than Obama knows.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> SueLD said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to hear that our President has given our CIA permission to release our important papers on our country and world affairs to Mr. Romney; as this is law after conventions. I would like to hear Romney speak on this recent news from Egypt and Lybia with the CIA's info. I am thankful that when Mr. Romney speaks I do understand clearly what he states. I may not agree with him but I do understand him. I do not feel I have to strain my brain picking up certain words that could be harmful to me and my fellow Americans. I'm very disappointed that our President allows a person from Iran whom is THREATENING our country, to come into our country for exercising that person's "free speech rights". I just don't understand?
> ...


Don't forget the golf games.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > SueLD said:
> ...


Oh thats right, Thump, forgot about the all- important golf games AND the Letterman Show. Thanks for the reminder!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, I see on the news that there are more riots in Egypt. Wonder how many Americans the Muslim Brotherhood will kill tonight while Obomination apologizes.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> O.k. now I have vented I am sorry I spoiled everones day. But I am fed up to the wazoo with these idiots. Thank you for putting up with my rant. Theyarnlady


You don't have to say you are sorry! We agree with you!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hey, on my way back from errands, I heard a question that needed to be asked: Why were our embassy's security not beefed up BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, WHEN WE KNEW THIS WAS A DAY THAT WAS A HIGH SECURITY RISK? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

WHY WERE OUR EMBASSY'S NOT ON HIGH ALERT AND FORTIFIED FOR 9/11??????? EVERYONE KNOWS THAT ALL SECURITY IN THAT AREA ON THAT DAY SHOULD HAVE BEEN HEIGHTENED AS HAS BEEN DONE IN YEARS PAST.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

How could any responsible president go to Los Vegas for a fund raiser when we were attacked, an ACT OF WAR !!!!!!

He is off for two days raising money and not meeting with the CIA, FBI and HLS? But nooooooooooooooo he is self absorbed that he cares (because he does not love our country)only about himself


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Hey, on my way back from errands, I heard a question that needed to be asked: Why were our embassy's security not beefed up BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, WHEN WE KNEW THIS WAS A DAY THAT WAS A HIGH SECURITY RISK? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Hmmmm...answered in the form of a question......

Because Obomination was busy setting up appointments to appear on his favorite talk shows and hasn't attended security briefings in months?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

And they thought Regan was a good actor????

I really was an independant on the wall but what has happen in the middle east and the way our goverment has acted. the wall has fallen.

Oh Queen of the banna shoe queen let the games begin. But you have to play fair now don't admit you are rich an you can take care of your kingdom , and you can contol your own world don't want to offend those people that think you need to be help.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> For the first time in my adult lifetime, I am AFRAID for my country.


I'm afraid. Makes me want to cling tighter to my guns and my religion.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Well poop, let's just break all the rules.
> ...


You are not alone.


----------



## SueLD (Jun 22, 2012)

I think there are many many many US citizens whom are fearful...first it was the economy (still IS) and now that crazy video setting this mess off, killing our ambassador who was foolish not protected! I think it's fair to say other countries are fearful also. We have been a strong leading nation which has shown much weakness for some time now and unfortunately the decisions that were made to help us here in the US have sorely failed. I do not believe that there was 'no person' that could have dealt with our economy 4 years ago. He or she is out there. I truly believe that. It takes an intelligent person who understands our economy to tackle these financial problems and who can be humble and show us his/her love for us citizens and our country. We need to know in our hearts and minds we have a president that does care about all of us and our country. This fear has been rising for quite sometime if you think back. But we must be strong for each other no matter what happens or who is elected. I see so much division amongst us and the FEAR is very bad. I've been embarrassed and hurt for so long. I understand what Obama has been trying to do with his 'hope & change'.. there certainly is CHANGE but absolutely no HOPE for me. I'm sorry about that as I was hoping Mr Obama would do well. He just isn't equipped to do better. And...'When a person doesn't do the job..we have to let him go'. We OWN this country and all those folks working in DC and in our individual states owe us to do what we ask. We are the BOSS with a fair majority rule. So vote!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SueLD said:


> I think there are many many many US citizens whom are fearful...first it was the economy (still IS) and now that crazy video setting this mess off, killing our ambassador who was foolish not protected! I think it's fair to say other countries are fearful also. We have been a strong leading nation which has shown much weakness for some time now and unfortunately the decisions that were made to help us here in the US have sorely failed. I do not believe that there was 'no person' that could have dealt with our economy 4 years ago. He or she is out there. I truly believe that. It takes an intelligent person who understands our economy to tackle these financial problems and who can be humble and show us his/her love for us citizens and our country. We need to know in our hearts and minds we have a president that does care about all of us and our country. This fear has been rising for quite sometime if you think back. But we must be strong for each other no matter what happens or who is elected. I see so much division amongst us and the FEAR is very bad. I've been embarrassed and hurt for so long. I understand what Obama has been trying to do with his 'hope & change'.. there certainly is CHANGE but absolutely no HOPE for me. I'm sorry about that as I was hoping Mr Obama would do well. He just isn't equipped to do better. And...'When a person doesn't do the job..we have to let him go'. We OWN this country and all those folks working in DC and in our individual states owe us to do what we ask. We are the BOSS with a fair majority rule. So vote!


I agree!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Me too!


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree too!
Vote in November because our lives nd our freedoms depend on this election.
I have 4 grandchildren and I fear for their futures.
Pray, pray, pray and God will here us


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Question

Why when I watch political commercials do I see Romney with Ryan 90% of the time, and I have NEVER seen Biden with Obama? All I see is Obama, alone, and staring out of a window.

Please someone explain where the WE is, and not just the me,me, me.....................


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<I really was an independant on the wall but what has happen in the middle east and the way our goverment has acted. the wall has fallen>

YarnLady, I'm so glad that you are no longer on the wall. It would be very hard to stay balanced up there in your bright red Prada shoes! :O)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Question
> 
> Why when I watch political commercials do I see Romney with Ryan 90% of the time, and I have NEVER seen Biden with Obama? All I see is Obama, alone, and staring out of a window.
> 
> Please someone explain where the WE is, and not just the me,me, me.....................


I'd been wondering the same exact thing Lovethelake. I've boiled it down to:

Narcissists refuse to share the limelight. 
Biden is an embarassment but is still needed for appeal to the working class


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Snorting

Balancing on Prada's, the visualization is hilarious

But do remember, there are Prada's that are also flats for the spiked heel challenged.

Was at my spinning group yesterday and nearly swallowed my roving. My dear friend, who always said she was a staunch DEM (her hubby and I always thought she was a closet Rep or a Reagan Dem) said that she was going to change her party affiliation to INDEPENDENT. Baby steps. Another friend, a die hard feminists refused to look up at that announcement. I had warned her that the Democratic Catholics and other religions were going to flinch. She said no way, that Catholics would have to accommodate HSS. Between that, the Middle East and the horrific job numbers that were released today, I feel a glimmer of hope.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

The game today is Jeopardy.

The word today is worth double of goverment debt will be.
Question:

What will ourgoverment do today to make us wonder what is going on, what our they thinking, to send us off the wall?

Clock is ticking.

Your answer please :shock: :roll: :evil:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Hmmmm......maybe blame Bush for the attacks in Egypt and Libya?


Or better yet, blame Romney?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

They hate us, they want to kill us, and they ARE killing us. Question: what do we do about it? Answer: we look at them sadly and implore, "Please, sir, may I have some more?"

We've been poked in the eye on yet another 9/11. Let's open the other eye and SEE what's going on. This is outrageous! This president DOES NOT KNOW WHAT TO DO. Wake up, America. As I listened to the beautiful strains of "America the Beautiful" at the memorial service for Neil Armstrong, all I could think of is that we are about to lose America the beautiful. Will we let this happen? Worse yet, will we help it happen.


----------



## karen2835 (Jul 12, 2011)

Obama is slowly 'killing America', most just don't see it yet. But that's his 'craftyness'...do it slowly and they won't notice.........he's leading us more and more into depending on the government for everything and what's gonna happen when that does happen, when that's all we have left is 'the government', that's when they have TOTAL control of us.............we need a serious REVIVAL here in America. Why is it that so many people want to 'run to America'....people are literally dying to get here (illegal immigrants who use coyotes to get here, or to 'try' to get here), that's why we're the great melting pot. There was a time when everyone wanted to be in America, the land of the FREE................other countries are sitting back literally laughing at us right now, we are a laughing stock....our government is just not doing enough!!


----------



## karen2835 (Jul 12, 2011)

Obama, a few years back, said it himself...NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE...............this recent attack is a 'crisis'.......I believe Obama is going to do something, what I don't know, but whatever he's going to do, he's got 2 months to do it.



lovethelake said:


> Hey, on my way back from errands, I heard a question that needed to be asked: Why were our embassy's security not beefed up BEFORE SEPTEMBER 11, WHEN WE KNEW THIS WAS A DAY THAT WAS A HIGH SECURITY RISK? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

I sure wish that what went to Las Vegas would STAY in Vegas! :O)


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I sure wish that what went to Las Vegas would STAY in Las Vegas! :O)[/quote
> we should be so lucky?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

karen2835 said:


> Obama is slowly 'killing America', most just don't see it yet. But that's his 'craftyness'...do it slowly and they won't notice.........he's leading us more and more into depending on the government for everything and what's gonna happen when that does happen, when that's all we have left is 'the government', that's when they have TOTAL control of us.............we need a serious REVIVAL here in America. Why is it that so many people want to 'run to America'....people are literally dying to get here (illegal immigrants who use coyotes to get here, or to 'try' to get here), that's why we're the great melting pot. There was a time when everyone wanted to be in America, the land of the FREE................other countries are sitting back literally laughing at us right now, we are a laughing stock....our government is just not doing enough!!


You have said the truth about that.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <I really was an independant on the wall but what has happen in the middle east and the way our goverment has acted. the wall has fallen>
> 
> YarnLady, I'm so glad that you are no longer on the wall. It would be very hard to stay balanced up there in your bright red Prada shoes! :O)


oh no my Parda Red shoes are stuck in a muck, and I can't get out.
Wait maybe there is another way.

I know I will wait for superman, he is the only one left with half a brain.

But as I can't get my shoes of red out please until he comes, can I wear socks? This muck is hard to get out of. Oh I know wait for four more years... :shock: :?:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Hmmmm......maybe blame Bush for the attacks in Egypt and Libya?
> 
> Or better yet, blame Romney?


Oh you are so close, but we must wait for day to pass to see if we win or lose... :thumbup: :thumbdown:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

karen2835 said:


> Obama is slowly 'killing America', most just don't see it yet. But that's his 'craftyness'...do it slowly and they won't notice.........he's leading us more and more into depending on the government for everything and what's gonna happen when that does happen, when that's all we have left is 'the government', that's when they have TOTAL control of us.............we need a serious REVIVAL here in America. Why is it that so many people want to 'run to America'....people are literally dying to get here (illegal immigrants who use coyotes to get here, or to 'try' to get here), that's why we're the great melting pot. There was a time when everyone wanted to be in America, the land of the FREE................other countries are sitting back literally laughing at us right now, we are a laughing stock....our government is just not doing enough!!


Yes, we are a laughing stock. They see any kindness on our part as weakness.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

karen2835 said:


> Obama, a few years back, said it himself...NEVER LET A CRISIS GO TO WASTE...............this recent attack is a 'crisis'.......I believe Obama is going to do something, what I don't know, but whatever he's going to do, he's got 2 months to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's an excellent question. He's now trying to close the barn door after the horse is out. Too little, too late.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I sure wish that what went to Las Vegas would STAY in Vegas! :O)


Las Vegas doesn't want him! Don't you remember when Obama slammed those going to Vegas and how the LV delegation want to/refused to greet Obama's plane when O did finally visit?

Obama has a nice home in Chicago that he can go back to. Or he can come to MA and live with his Aunt or Uncle, both of whom, have ignored their multiple deportation orders (both are illegal immigrants) and live off the MASS taxpayers. Let's not forget Uncle Obama's twice or thrice drunk driving record here either.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

This president, campaigner in chief, is INCOMPETANT! An ambassador and several embassy workers are killed in a brutal manner, and BO jets off to Vegas? What's wrong with this picture?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Hey Yarnlady, Karen, bonbf3 and those who I may have missed, you are all right on the money (sorry to cast aspersions...money is a dirty word to some). Glad to have your input and hear your thoughts.
I may not be on much today. Went to check my bee hive yesterday and got nailed. My typing hand is as big as a ham hock today, and I'm supposed to keep it "elevated" and on ice. Any of you ever tried to knit with your toes? :O)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> This president, campaigner in chief, is INCOMPETANT! An ambassador and several embassy workers are killed in a brutal manner, and BO jets off to Vegas? What's wrong with this picture?


 :thumbup:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf, how was the birthday dinner? And how is your pulled muscle?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, we have a split screen with Obomination campaigning in CO while the riots are escalating in the Middle East. BTW, yesterday September 12, even after the death of 4 Americans, Obomination STILL does not meet with security advisors before leaving for Vegas.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Cherf, how was the birthday dinner? And how is your pulled muscle?


Fine - Mexican at the local docal place; inexpensive and DH's favorite meal.

I'm slightly better today, as long as I don't breathe, laugh or move! I have to get better to participate in another big Yard Sale at my sister's this weekend. I sell my gift shop inventory and my handmade crafts, others sell their used stuff; we all have a blast and replace stuff and displace with cold cash!

I love bantering with the public as well; we do sales often and have a following .... I'm in charge of the jokes and bullhorn.

Better still, how about your hand? That doesn't sound too good. I wish I was local to buy honey if you produce and sell it. Love it on cereal with raspberries, blueberries, strawberries drizzled with a touch of honey.

Be well!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> This president, campaigner in chief, is INCOMPETANT! An ambassador and several embassy workers are killed in a brutal manner, and BO jets off to Vegas? What's wrong with this picture?


Bydie
It would be honest to blame the Producers of the reckless
Movie for what is happening.
I am so happy that we have a President who never jumps before he leaps as Romney so skillfully does on a regular basis.

Boy am I glad to have a choice.


----------



## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

Respectfully I ask, what good is served by all the bashing? It's coming from both sides and it is getting dirtier and more hateful each day, and I'm certainly not talking solely about this forum. The left says this, the right says that. The left said it first, the right said it first. 

The bottom line is this is a nation divided. It is not divided by a president chosen by unanimous vote of the electorate, but by groups of individuals who insist on their way or the highway. There is simply no compromise. The news media on BOTH sides is also responsible. We used to get unbiased news reports, but those are difficult or near impossible to find anymore. I just want the news. I am a relatively intelligent, discerning person who can think on my own.

We can only theorize, as that is a long way from execution, what the results to our economy would have been if Bush and Obama had done things differently. As a Bush supporter and then a McCain supporter, I was aware of the failing economy near the end of Bush' administration as well as his attempts to cure it and then Obama's attempts to cure it. Many argued Obama did too much and many argued Obama did not do enough.

I no more believe that Bush was responsible for 09/11/01 or knew about it in advance (how ridiculous those claims were) than Obama is responsible for 09/11/12 or knew about it in advance. Does anyone seriously believe that Bush or Obama is 100% responsible for all occurrences in the world during their tenure? No one has brought up the movie that allegedly instigated the protestors in the first place that it has been claimed were supported by al-Qaeda and their artillery.

Someone previously said that 09/11/12 has made them more fearful than any day in their life in this country (not an exact quote). My most fearful day for Americans and the USA was 09/11/01. Besides the WTC and the Pentagon, there were reports of planes in the air and not knowing where they were headed. Later we heard about the plane and heroic maneuvers in Shanksville, PA. Many saw the horrific events unfold before their eyes in person and on TV. That was truly my most terrifying day for the USA, solely in my opinion of course, and I recall that fear and remember the lost souls and their families each anniversary of the event, as I am sure many do.

I am an Independent, and my support is behind Romney, but what good is served if I hate Obama.

I apologize if you believe me to be the sour note ruining your song.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > This president, campaigner in chief, is INCOMPETANT! An ambassador and several embassy workers are killed in a brutal manner, and BO jets off to Vegas? What's wrong with this picture?
> ...


The terrorists don't NEED an excuse to act like animals. If it weren't "the movie", it would be some other lame reason. They hate us because we are US! BTW, anyone ever hear of the First Amendment????


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Ingried, as much as you want to parrot the democratic talking-points and blame some movie that came out 6 MONTHS ago, this attack happened on 9-11. They were chanting "we are all Osama, Obama." I'm not blaming BO for this attack, but I am appalled at his woefully inadequate response. And I am blaming him for not attending even half of his intelligence briefings. And that crap about "Romney jumping the gun"? Baloney! Romney actually sounded presidential.


----------



## Nonnie (Feb 4, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > CarolfromTX said:
> ...


Pray people because without pray we will be One Nation gone under.
Obama is an obamination to this country and he will take us down


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > CarolfromTX said:
> ...


Oh we are very familiar with the first amendment but hatred should have nothing to do with free speech.
That is a matter of despicable behavior. 
But then manners and tolerance are becoming extinct.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > This president, campaigner in chief, is INCOMPETANT! An ambassador and several embassy workers are killed in a brutal manner, and BO jets off to Vegas? What's wrong with this picture?
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Pick me pick me,

What is the third stimulus of the Obama Administration that only cost $40 BILLION A MONTH


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Ingried, despicable behavior is the murder of people because one doesn't agree with them. Dissent or disagreement is not synomymous with hatred.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Ingried, as much as you want to parrot the democratic talking-points and blame some movie that came out 6 MONTHS ago, this attack happened on 9-11. They were chanting "we are all Osama, Obama." I'm not blaming BO for this attack, but I am appalled at his woefully inadequate response. And I am blaming him for not attending even half of his intelligence briefings. And that crap about "Romney jumping the gun"? Baloney! Romney actually sounded presidential.


CarolfromTX
I am happy to see that I am actually in the company of very wise
people seeing the miss-steps Romney so regularly makes.
And this one was not just a step but almost a leap.

Romney's Advisors must be in a tizzy or they are just plain stupid which I do not think they are. Romney seems to take
no advise from anyone. Typical Boss behavior, I call the shots, you do as I tell you and when I mess up it is your fault.

What happened to the good old GOP?


----------



## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Ingried, I'm curious. Do you think Obama is handling this crisis well? Was his response just right, a perfectly modulated gem of diplomacy? Should he be campaigning while the Middle East burns? Who is in charge while he is on the road pandering to another voting block.

And with any luck, the old GOP will be replaced by true conservatives.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried, as much as you want to parrot the democratic talking-points and blame some movie that came out 6 MONTHS ago, this attack happened on 9-11. They were chanting "we are all Osama, Obama." I'm not blaming BO for this attack, but I am appalled at his woefully inadequate response. And I am blaming him for not attending even half of his intelligence briefings. And that crap about "Romney jumping the gun"? Baloney! Romney actually sounded presidential.
> ...


Ahem! obama is STILL blaming Bush for things after 4 years! And, in regards to taking advice, Obama might have some advice to take if he would show up for any of his meetings instead of being on the campaign trail or golf course so often.

My point is that your side is so very guilty of the same things for which you condescendingly chide the GOP members.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> Respectfully I ask, what good is served by all the bashing? It's coming from both sides and it is getting dirtier and more hateful each day, and I'm certainly not talking solely about this forum. The left says this, the right says that. The left said it first, the right said it first.
> 
> The bottom line is this is a nation divided. It is not divided by a president chosen by unanimous vote of the electorate, but by groups of individuals who insist on their way or the highway. There is simply no compromise. The news media on BOTH sides is also responsible. We used to get unbiased news reports, but those are difficult or near impossible to find anymore. I just want the news. I am a relatively intelligent, discerning person who can think on my own.
> 
> ...


I do not find how you are feeling about what you think is wrong . But in turn you must know how I am feeling. 
I do not hate Obama as a person, I hate his policys. He made so many promises at the start of his Presidency and has not kept the ones that matter to many. 
I do not just fault him It is the whole governing body, They seem to be more worried about lining their own pockets, as to helping the people they work for.
Three years without a budget, and continued spending and no one held accountable, in my mind is dividing this country.
I am sure ever president in this country have done something wrong they are only human beings. 
But why do we as a nation have to pay for their stupidly. 
To see an innocent man and the others that were with him killed, To see our flag disrepected, to see the people in office not step up, and say nothing until after all is done. Now send ship and Marines in . These same men who will get less pay because the whole lot of them in three years sat around and waited. 
to be told our taxes won't go up, is a fools game. 
I for one have had enough, and if I remain silent as was called the silent majority, is to say go ahead beat me over the head. 
I do know others disagree with me and I will not fault them to let them speak their mind. 
I also know that others feel we should not be on KP and discussing this. But after what happen two days ago, I have had enough. So I spoke my mind. Forgive me for causing you to feel this way as have the whole of KP. When you are push enough, you either fall or you stand up. 
Now off my soap box. I mean no harm to anyone, but will have my say and then vote.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I'll let you guess whose quote this is: 

"I think that Im a better speechwriter than my speechwriters. I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors. And Ill tell you right now that Im gonna think Im a better political director than my political director." 

No matter when said, in response to what question, no matter to whom said; this is the quote of an arrogant, power-hungry person who wants to be king and believe he not only deserves to be him, he is. 

Don't expect him to listen to you or anyone including those in his party, administration, on the field, in the campaign office, bedroom or religious institution.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bravo on all points, Carol and Theyarnlady!!!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Pick me pick me,
> 
> What is the third stimulus of the Obama Administration that only cost $40 BILLION A MONTH


Buying up US bonds?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> rubycube14 said:
> 
> 
> > Respectfully I ask, what good is served by all the bashing? It's coming from both sides and it is getting dirtier and more hateful each day, and I'm certainly not talking solely about this forum. The left says this, the right says that. The left said it first, the right said it first.
> ...


Agreed.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hey Yarnlady, Karen, bonbf3 and those who I may have missed, you are all right on the money (sorry to cast aspersions...money is a dirty word to some). Glad to have your input and hear your thoughts.
> I may not be on much today. Went to check my bee hive yesterday and got nailed. My typing hand is as big as a ham hock today, and I'm supposed to keep it "elevated" and on ice. Any of you ever tried to knit with your toes? :O)


Oh not good to hear you have been stung Hope you get relief soon.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Ingried, I'm curious. Do you think Obama is handling this crisis well? Was his response just right, a perfectly modulated gem of diplomacy? Should he be campaigning while the Middle East burns? Who is in charge while he is on the road pandering to another voting block.
> 
> And with any luck, the old GOP will be replaced by true conservatives.


CarolfromTX
Any President is never off duty.
PRESIDENT OBAMA has been handling the affairs for us
WE THE PEOPLE quite well.

I know, you and your co-horts would love nothing more than to start an other War. The rest of us don't.
Over 6.000 Soldiers lost through idiocy and the cost of these Wars will be with us for another decade at least.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

thumper5316

Pres. G.W. Bush will be blamed for decades to come and not just from some of us but from People around the Globe.
He sure can lay claim to being the EMPEROR OF DESTRUCTION.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> CarolfromTX said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried, I'm curious. Do you think Obama is handling this crisis well? Was his response just right, a perfectly modulated gem of diplomacy? Should he be campaigning while the Middle East burns? Who is in charge while he is on the road pandering to another voting block.
> ...


Ingried,

At what point, when attacked on our soil, would you say would be appropriate to fight back?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> thumper5316
> 
> Pres. G.W. Bush will be blamed for decades to come and not just from some of us but from People around the Globe.
> He sure can lay claim to being the EMPEROR OF DESTRUCTION.


Destroying what? And please, no re-writing history or inserting your desires in your answer. How many would you see murdered in your family before any type of response could be elicited from you?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
Oh I forgot, he is running the country by reading, NOT ATTENDING, national security meetings. Oh I forgot, our Egyptian Embassy Marines were not allowed to protect the embassy with live ammo, per edict by the Obama Administration. Now we would not want to hurt the feelings of the terrorists would we.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> Oh I forgot, he is running the country by reading, NOT ATTENDING, national security meetings. Oh I forgot, our Egyptian Embassy Marines were not allowed to protect the embassy with live ammo, per edict by the Obama Administration. Now we would not want to hurt the feelings of the terrorists would we.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> Oh I forgot, he is running the country by reading, NOT ATTENDING, national security meetings. Oh I forgot, our Egyptian Embassy Marines were not allowed to protect the embassy with live ammo, per edict by the Obama Administration. Now we would not want to hurt the feelings of the terrorists would we.


lovethelake
The longer you speak the xxxxxx you look.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> ...


Tsk! Tsk! That's a personal attack, Ingried and that's a no-no Might have to turn you in to Admin.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> ...


Ingried,

To quote part of your message 4703, "But then manners and tolerance are becoming extinct." Where are your tolerance and manners now?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Yarnlady, Karen, bonbf3 and those who I may have missed, you are all right on the money (sorry to cast aspersions...money is a dirty word to some). Glad to have your input and hear your thoughts.
> ...


Thanks, Bydie. I hope you feel better soon. Sounds painful.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Please answer in the form of a question:

Which Middle Eastern country has been called by the Obama Administration, first NOT an ally and then, Oops!, yes an ally....all within a 24 hour period. 

Oh keep going Obama....this IS your Jimmy Carter moment!!!!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Please answer in the form of a question:
> 
> Which Middle Eastern country has been called by the Obama Administration, first NOT an ally and then, Oops!, yes an ally....all within a 24 hour period.
> 
> Oh keep going Obama....this IS your Jimmy Carter moment!!!!


You are right about that. Deja vu!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Ingried said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> ...


OH MY, MUST LEAVE AND PUT ON MAKEUP, I MUST BE ON WEB CAM. DOES MY COMPUTER PICTURE MAKE ME LOOK FAT???????


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> [\


lovethelake
The longer you speak the xxxxxx you look.[/quote]

I agree - I'll spell it out for Ingried ... B E T T E R


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Oh I forgot, he was handling the country while at the fund raiser last night. Oh I forgot he will be running the country while on Letterman instead of meeting with the PM of Israel.
> ...


Ditto here.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > [\
> ...


I agree - I'll spell it out for Ingried ... B E T T E R[/quote]

You're probably right. I was thinking since x's are kisses, she maybe meant sweeter - or love-lier. Any way, I'm sure it was good.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > [\
> ...


I agree - I'll spell it out for Ingried ... B E T T E R[/quote]

You're probably right. I was thinking since x's are kisses, she maybe meant sweeter - or love-lier. Any way, I'm sure it was good.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


You're probably right. I was thinking since x's are kisses, she maybe meant sweeter - or love-lier. Any way, I'm sure it was good.[/quote]

Oh the Queen loves her Court.....SMOOCH


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


You're probably right. I was thinking since x's are kisses, she maybe meant sweeter - or love-lier. Any way, I'm sure it was good.[/quote]

Nah, I think it puts more color into her cheeks, hence, a rosy glow!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Cherf said:
> ...


Oh the Queen loves her Court.....SMOOCH[/quote]

LOL!!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


Oh really? Go ahead make my day.
Was not someone mentioning Freedom of speech here which was applauded by some?
Oh sure, accusing the President of all sorts of things he NEVER
did or said is o.k.?
Voicing my opinion it not? Strange that some take liberties for themselves, they want to take from others.
You can't have it both ways.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Well we do know he has not met with his security counsel in week

We know he apologizes for the USA rather than be proud and defend Her

We know he has played more rounds of golf than any other president

We know he has held more fund raising events than all the last 5 presidents together

We know he despises Israel, and is snubbing their PM

We know the British Royals find him distasteful, Reagan would have been invited to the Royal Wedding of Prince William

We know his Attorney General, lies under oath, is in Contempt of Congress, Kills Americans because of Fast and Furious, allows women to be intimidated by the New Black Panthers when trying to vote.... so we know he has not followed the Constitution by not firing him

We know he hates Catholics and their Constitutional Right to Freedom of Religion. We know he rammed HSS down the Church's throat and gave them time to accommodate and violate their basic moral tenants


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well we do know he has not met with his security counsel in week
> 
> We know he apologizes for the USA rather than be proud and defend Her
> 
> ...


Obviously you know nothing but hate and try to push that on others.
You need to buy new shoes to fit into. Those 2nd hand ones
don't fit and give you too much pain.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Well we do know he has not met with his security counsel in week
> ...


Huh????


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

help help help

Your defenseless Queen is under attack. Not only is my character under attack, but my shoes. That is a low blow from a Progressive.

I am so distressed that I must find my cabana boy, because I need fanning


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> help help help
> 
> Your defenseless Queen is under attack. Not only is my character under attack, but my shoes. That is a low blow from a Progressive.
> 
> I am so distressed that I must find my cabana boy, because I need fanning


2nd hand ones? Queen, have you been wearing those nasty looking house shoes out in public again? Please donate them. We Bananas have an imagine to uphold.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

We know the Presdent Clinton despises Pres Obama and both lied to their own Democratic party by telling them they are all better off today than they were 4 years ago as Obama was taking the office.

We know Obama didn't keep any of his main promised objectives and asked his party to accept his speeches instead of reality. 

We also know that was the best the Democratic Party could offer in addition to the Vagina Monologues that moved from Broadway to the stage of the Dem convention.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> help help help
> 
> Your defenseless Queen is under attack. Not only is my character under attack, but my shoes. That is a low blow from a Progressive.
> 
> I am so distressed that I must find my cabana boy, because I need fanning


I have some red grapes - will those do? :-o


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

We know Dems don't know the difference between American and Russian war ships. No wonder Clinton did NOTHING after the attack on the USS Cole. He thought it was a Russian ship that the terrorists bombed. 

We know that Obo had no problem criticizing W when he was fighting terrorists, but doesn't like it when Romney weighs in about his LACK of action.

We know that when a crazed Nadal Hassan murders 14 (?) troops while screaming Allah Akbar, Obo calls it workplace violence.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > help help help
> ...


LOL! (I gotta go ice my hand again.....Can I borrow your grapes and cabana boy? You got any lemonade?)


----------



## rubycube14 (Sep 29, 2011)

I, for one, have only suggested civil discourse rather than name-calling which serves no purpose other to inflame those with opposing views--just like children on a playground where bullying and name-calling begins. Some things children, who later become adults, never seem to outgrow. Of course, we have free speech, but how can opposing sides of any subject discuss and find any common ground or agree to disagree if sanity does not prevail. I am probably more conservative than many on this thread, but I do not detest liberals or all liberal ideas. If not for the balance in our democracy, who knows what we would become.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> LOL! (I gotta go ice my hand again.....Can I borrow your grapes and cabana boy? You got any lemonade?)


For you, Bydie, frozen grapes. The boy is mine. Somebody needs to DO things in this country (and for the Queen too). Try iced tea mixed with lemonade (w or w/out Vodka) you'll feel M U C H bettah!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

rubycube14 said:


> Respectfully I ask, what good is served by all the bashing? It's coming from both sides and it is getting dirtier and more hateful each day, and I'm certainly not talking solely about this forum. The left says this, the right says that. The left said it first, the right said it first.
> 
> The bottom line is this is a nation divided. It is not divided by a president chosen by unanimous vote of the electorate, but by groups of individuals who insist on their way or the highway. There is simply no compromise. The news media on BOTH sides is also responsible. We used to get unbiased news reports, but those are difficult or near impossible to find anymore. I just want the news. I am a relatively intelligent, discerning person who can think on my own.
> 
> ...


Rubycube,

I appreciate what you are saying. I tried to engage in civil, unemotional discourse when I first entered KP. I was called every nasty name. I try to be respectful to others on this list, but I feel I have every right to speak my concerns for the future of our country and that includes how I view our political leaders. Conservatives have sat back and taken stomach kicks, head thumps and shin burns for years from Liberals with impunity. I've decided to no longer be silent and it seems to have given courage to others to also speak up. We have brought up many points that fellow KPers might never have known about before visiting this thread. I have no regrets and am not ashamed of that at all.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Hear hear

Silence is consent


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Addendum:
Even had a "Progressive" try to sabotage my attempt to recruit KPers to knit stocking caps for our soldiers in Afghanistan. How cool is that? NOT! BTW, it didn't work!


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Rubycube,
> 
> I appreciate what you are saying. I tried to engage in civil, unemotional discourse when I first entered KP. I was called every nasty name. I try to be respectful to others on this list, but I feel I have every right to speak my concerns for the future of our country and that includes how I view our political leaders. Conservatives have sat back and taken stomach kicks, head thumps and shin burns for years from Liberals with impunity. I've decided to no longer be silent and it seems to have given courage to others to also speak up. We have brought up many points that fellow KPers might never have known about before visiting this thread. I have no regrets and am not ashamed of that at all.


Ditto :thumbup: Rubycube you, like Bydie, are the voice of reason. However, as Bydie stated, the name calling and lies come most often from those on the left while the Conservatives do try their best to offer their thoughts on the facts in evidence.

I enjoy hearing your point of view and love your avatar!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Addendum:
> Even had a "Progressive" try to sabotage my attempt to recruit KPers to knit stocking caps for our soldiers in Afghanistan. How cool is that? NOT! BTW, it didn't work!


Bydie
That is about the nastiest comment ever.
Most of us are already involved in doing so for several months.
Ours are about ready to be shipped with sweets.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Addendum:
> ...


I applaud your endeavor! I know the troops will enjoy them.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Addendum:
> ...


Ingried, how is starting that someone tried to sabotage something positive she was doing be construed as nasty on her part. She didn't mention that it was you personally. Don't be so thin skinned and trying to pick a fight.

I thank you for your efforts for the troops. Everything sent is appreciated. I send packages every couple of weeks to my son in Afghanistan.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I thank you for your efforts for the troops. Everything sent is appreciated. I send packages every couple of weeks to my son in Afghanistan.


Thumper Who knew! I didn't! Thank you and your son for your service to the USA military.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I am feeling a care package brigade forming


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cherf said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > I thank you for your efforts for the troops. Everything sent is appreciated. I send packages every couple of weeks to my son in Afghanistan.
> ...


All three of my sons are in the military. I have the oldest in Afghanistan (Air Force), the middle one in the Denver Air Guard Med-evac unit, and my baby is a Lt. in the Army stationed at Ft. Bragg in Fayetteville. We a very proud of all our sons.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Thumper,
Thank you to you and your son. My prayers go out to him for his protection and to you for peace and comfort in his absence

You might get a kick out of the following which I posted when I first joined KP regarding....well, you will get it when you read it. :O)

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-91340-1.html#1713568


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:
 

> All three of my sons are in the military. I have the oldest in Afghanistan (Air Force), the middle one in the Denver Air Guard Med-evac unit, and my baby is a Lt. in the Army stationed at Ft. Bragg in Fayetteville. We a very proud of all our sons.


As you should be - God Bless them all (and you too!)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Thumper,
> Thank you to you and your son. My prayers go out to him for his protection and to you for peace and comfort in his absence
> 
> You might get a kick out of the following which I posted when I first joined KP regarding....well, you will get it when you read it. :O)
> ...


Thank you to you and your SONS! Blessings on you!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am feeling a care package brigade forming


I'm game. I've got lots of material to make pillows. :O)


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Me I don't sew, I buy. So maybe a list of things to buy or make could be created. We could all take responsibility for certain items. And then we ship them to the address Thumper gives us.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Sorry - wrong topic.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Cherf said:
> 
> 
> > thumper5316 said:
> ...


We Americans owe your sons - and you.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Y'all have me speechless! Tell me what all y'all want me to do. What's our timeframe?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

My son, Jesse, is Camp Marmal, BTW.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

I've got a pretty good stash of hats already made.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

You just have to come up with separate lists for each one of our adopted boys (with of course extras for their buds), and I will adopt at least one. Off I go with my Amex to the store and post office


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You just have to come up with separate lists for each one of our adopted boys (with of course extras for their buds), and I will adopt at least one. Off I go with my Amex to the store and post office


So, should I ask Jesse for a list of guys that may not be receiving personal packages? I know that when John an I send packages we always send more than enough for him to share. So, tell me what I need to do.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I will do whatever is best. I am a good Queen, but I am also a great peasant. One of my favorite sayings" Lead me, follow me, but get out of my way.

If Jesse wants a box to share with all, great. If there are guys that need a box just for them, great. I don't know how many are in their unit, and don't want any left out.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Also does it have to go to a base to be shipped?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I will do whatever is best. I am a good Queen, but I am also a great peasant. One of my favorite sayings" Lead me, follow me, but get out of my way.
> 
> If Jesse wants a box to share with all, great. If there are guys that need a box just for them, great. I don't know how many are in their unit, and don't want any left out.


I'll ask him. He's the best judge of that. I do know that whatever one receives they all share except for certain things, such as the boot inserts (#1 on my son's list) that he requested from us.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Also does it have to go to a base to be shipped?


No.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I've got a pretty good stash of hats already made.


I have six hats in my stash (not as many as I thought) but I can have more done is short order.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


They make feet that are in shoes or boots for long hours very happy. http://www.superfeet.com/


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Also does it have to go to a base to be shipped?
> ...


In addition you can request some USPS Priority shipping boxes.

Military Care Package Mailing Kit

Since Priority Mail service supplies are the packaging of choice for families preparing care packages for service members overseas, the USPS has created a "Mili-kit" based on the items most frequently requested by the military.

The kit contains:

Three (3) each of flat rate boxes O-FRB1 and O-FRB2
Two (2) each of Cube boxes OBOX7
Address labels - Label # 228 8 each
Address labels - Label # 106-A 1 each
Customs FORM 2976-A 8 EA.
Customs FORM 2976-E 8 EA.

The kit may be requested by calling 1-800-610-8734 (Packing Supply) and:

Choose your language (1 is English, 2 is Spanish).
Choose option 1 (it states it is for Express Mail service, Priority Mail or Global Express Guaranteed).
When you reach a live agent, request CAREKIT04.
Please allow 7-10 days for delivery.
Note: These are free supplies, postage must be affixed.

Additionally, you can find guidelines for packing, addressing, and shipping items to U.S. troops athttps://www.usps.com/ship/apo-fpo-guidelines.htm


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No. It is not good here. Financially unstable.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Here are my three guys. Great boys, all. The oldest, Jesse, is a QI inspector. He is overseeing project managers working on infrastructure improvements in the Middle East. The youngest, Noah, is in the AG and is a computer analyst. The middle guy, Kip, is a Bio-medical equipment technician. Yes, I'm proud of all three. I do have to say that their dad is pretty awesome, too. I am blessed!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I want to pinch their cheeks


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You are so lucky. They are handsome. I want to pinch their cheeks, too.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh tell them thank you for me. They are not paid enough to be in harms way. If this goverment has it's way they will recieve even least. 

We pay our firemen and policemen a good salary, and I think they deserve to be.

Why are not our service men worth that and more....


----------



## Txlvs2knit (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks to your young men for their service to our country. Can I add one more "pinch to their cheeks!!"


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Thumper, as we sometimes say here in Georgia, "You done good, Darlin' "
Add me to the cheek pinching brigade. :O)


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I would give them more then a pinch, 

You are never to old to enjoy the view... 
Plus you are so lucky to have such fine sons. You must have done a heck of a job rising such wonderful sons.


----------



## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

What a handsome lot! Are they single? I have lots of granddaughters, lol.....


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

gma11331 said:


> What a handsome lot! Are they single? I have lots of granddaughters, lol.....


LOL! Kip and Noah are still single. Jesse was deployed the day after his wedding. So, he spent his honeymoon in Afghanistan. Woo-hoo!

Thanks for all the complements, ladies. If you would like to pinch their cheeks, go for it. You'd get away with it before I ever would.


----------



## sandj (May 16, 2012)

I just applied to a usher/ticket position at the Amway in Orlando. I got off of the elevator and thought the line was very long. They were taking 75 people. They told me to go to a orientation this week for 3 hours. The position pays nothing. I got a e-mail this morning not to come because I wasn't picked. No that is not better off then 4 years ago.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

With all of the attacks on U.S. soil over the last few days isn't it comforting to know that we have a Nobel Peace Prize winner in charge?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> With all of the attacks on U.S. soil over the last few days isn't it comforting to know that we have a Nobel Peace Prize winner in charge?


 :thumbup:


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

sandj said:


> I just applied to a usher/ticket position at the Amway in Orlando. I got off of the elevator and thought the line was very long. They were taking 75 people. They told me to go to a orientation this week for 3 hours. The position pays nothing. I got a e-mail this morning not to come because I wasn't picked. No that is not better off then 4 years ago.


Sandy, I'm sorry and know how frustrated you must be. Keep trying and I pray you'll find work soon. I believe things will soon be better.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> sandj said:
> 
> 
> > I just applied to a usher/ticket position at the Amway in Orlando. I got off of the elevator and thought the line was very long. They were taking 75 people. They told me to go to a orientation this week for 3 hours. The position pays nothing. I got a e-mail this morning not to come because I wasn't picked. No that is not better off then 4 years ago.
> ...


Ditto here, Sandy. You'll find something.


----------



## newquay (Apr 26, 2011)

NO! I work full time and have a nice little income coming in but I can't keep pace with the escalating economy. Thank God I have bought lots of wool over the years and have a great stash but I was thinking of saving it for when I retire. Who can afford to retire?! Oh well, working keeps me young even though I am of retirement age.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Still so frustrating, be well dear friend


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here are my three guys. Great boys, all. The oldest, Jesse, is a QI inspector. He is overseeing project managers working on infrastructure improvements in the Middle East. The youngest, Noah, is in the AG and is a computer analyst. The middle guy, Kip, is a Bio-medical equipment technician. Yes, I'm proud of all three. I do have to say that their dad is pretty awesome, too. I am blessed!


What a family! You are so Blessed! I got tears. You did a good job on raising those precious boys. :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> With all of the attacks on U.S. soil over the last few days isn't it comforting to know that we have a Nobel Peace Prize winner in charge?


Heard on the news last night That the Egyptian Leaders, have been tweeting the US, apologizing to our state department, then tweeting The leaders of the uprising to thank them for doing it.
State department tweeter back we can read arabic.
Now what , give them more money????


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sandj said:


> I just applied to a usher/ticket position at the Amway in Orlando. I got off of the elevator and thought the line was very long. They were taking 75 people. They told me to go to a orientation this week for 3 hours. The position pays nothing. I got a e-mail this morning not to come because I wasn't picked. No that is not better off then 4 years ago.


I am so sorry, do hope things change and you find a job. God be with you and your family.


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Well, even though military, my quarterly premium for health care just went up 17% for the quarter. I though Obama promised me, again and again, that if Obamacare passed my cost would not go up because I make less than $250,000.

Also he promised unemployment wouldn't go above 8%. Well, in my family the rate has been at 50% for a retired military member for more than two years.

What's happening here - broken promises or lies?

At least Obama said I have a choice in this upcoming election! 
R/R all the way!


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Well, even though military, my quarterly premium for health care just went up 17% for the quarter. I though Obama promised me, again and again, that if Obamacare passed my cost would not go up because I make less than $250,000.
> *It may not be a lie. Will have to wait for 2014.
> But it doesn't mean that ins. companies can not raise rates until then.
> You are one of MANY stories that I hear that premiums went up.
> ...


----------



## SueLD (Jun 22, 2012)

Gee Wiz...this is getting so bad. Is anybody listening out there? Obama is ahead in the polls today. Next month, the debates...will see what happens there.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > With all of the attacks on U.S. soil over the last few days isn't it comforting to know that we have a Nobel Peace Prize winner in charge?
> ...


No more money. 1 - Get our people out. 2 - Take our money back and put it into the best defense we can build. 3 - Stop buying their oil - drill and use our own.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bonbf 3
I am with you on that. We have more than enough oil coal, gas in this country to be free of all those imports. 

The goverment has made it impossible with all their laws to use these resouces.

I know the pollution is a big thing, but we have to give a little. 

Just wish Our goverment would listen to us .


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SueLD said:


> Gee Wiz...this is getting so bad. Is anybody listening out there? Obama is ahead in the polls today. Next month, the debates...will see what happens there.


Don't always believe the polls. They are not right on and there is error .

What may seem to be right is not always. People can fudge on them too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm looking forward to the debates.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

snoozi_suzi said:


> I'm looking forward to the debates.


Me too! I love it when Obama makes a fool of himself because he doesn't have his teleprompter to read. I wonder if he's going to come out with little "cheat sheets" pinned all over his suit.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bonbf 3
> I am with you on that. We have more than enough oil coal, gas in this country to be free of all those imports.
> 
> The goverment has made it impossible with all their laws to use these resouces.
> ...


So do I.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> SueLD said:
> 
> 
> > Gee Wiz...this is getting so bad. Is anybody listening out there? Obama is ahead in the polls today. Next month, the debates...will see what happens there.
> ...


Yarnlady, I too was grief-stricken to hear the polls. Then I heard that the Rasmussen poll has Romney ahead by three points. Also, there was a story on last week that said that sometimes they poll more of one party. For some reason, they don't correct for that. So - there's hope!!! Never give up!


----------



## margewhaples (Nov 18, 2011)

KatStabe said:


> No! Lost my job, we lost the house, are now on welfare. And before anyone accuses, I don't have internet. I go downtown and use free Wifi.


I love your avatar. Is it something you made and could you post a larger version.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge


I agree...
I have stopped looking and listening at the polls many years ago...
When the report stated...in fine print at the bottom...
This poll was taken with 100 potential voters in ___(can't remember the metropolitan city).
You have got to be kidding me!
100 out of how many millions across the nation!?

If you add up the different named polls...still doesn't even come close to 1% of the national voters.
Now this last statement may be incorrect as the percentage now-a-days; as I said I haven't looked/listened to polls in years.
But it is something to think about.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge
> ...


I, too, have stopped looking at polls. If those people polled are in a large metropolitan city then it will be slightly skewed towards democrats as city dwellers tend to be more liberal. Move out to more rural areas and it will be more conservative.

And I detest exit polls. Last I heard who we voted for was nobody's business but our own. I have been approached by them here where I live and told them, under no uncertain terms, to take a hike. I think there were some four letter words in my response as well.

Also, with the election season in full swing we have those wonderful young liberals knocking on our door soliciting for funds for "community" groups. If I see a scraggly looking young person at the door with a clip board I don't open the door. Here in Minnesota one of the things on the ballot is voter ID. It's very heated but, from what I see, it will pass with a large majority.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge


Good advice.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

galaxycraft said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge
> ...


You are so right. In my panic I lost touch with reality. Thanks for bringing me back!


----------



## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


In a way polls can be good.
If the person you do not want in office is in the lead, that can bring the response of serious voters that want the other party, to stand up and vote this time around.

On the other side...polls can be bad.
If the person you do not want in office is in the lead...
Voters have a tendency to give up right there and then and they don't vote. 
Thinking that their measly little one vote won't make a difference.
If thousands of people felt this way, then that is thousands of votes lost for the preferred candidate.

Advice:
Don't pay attention to the polls; or at least take it with a grain of salt.
And get out there and vote.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Good morning all, It is a beautiful day here. I can walk outside and sit and listen to the birds, I can do anything, think anything say anything.

Why you may ask?? I live in America,I may not agree with you but I and you we both can voice our beliefs, and not worry that our goverment will knock on our door and take it away from us.

There are country's that are not allowed to do this. Their women are not allowed to speak dress ect the way they want.

My favor song:
" This is my country land of my birth this is my country grandest on earth.

I pledge thee my allegiance, America my home.
For this is my country to have and to hold.

We may not always do the right thing, but we are FREE.

God please continue to bless this country.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

New York Times and CBS are respected for their methods.



bonbf3 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > I have stopped looking at the polls because you never know who was polled. I mean there is a difference between voters and likely voters. Yes that polled was weighted in Dems. I am close with my number memory 349 Dems, 298 Rep and 39 Independents. If correctly weighted, the results would have been different. So know your pollsters before jumping off a bridge
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Good morning all, It is a beautiful day here. I can walk outside and sit and listen to the birds, I can do anything, think anything say anything.
> 
> Why you may ask?? I live in America,I may not agree with you but I and you we both can voice our beliefs, and not worry that our goverment will knock on our door and take it away from us.
> 
> ...


Very nice post.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Yarnlady, I too was grief-stricken to hear the polls. Then I heard that the Rasmussen poll has Romney ahead by three points. Also, there was a story on last week that said that sometimes they poll more of one party. For some reason, they don't correct for that. So - there's hope!!! Never give up!


I don't pay attention to most polls. However, if I were to suggest one to follow it would have to be Rasmussen. I believe them to be the most accurate and comprehensive and generally they include registered voters only.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

On my way home from my pinning guild, I heard some good advice on Fox. Pay attention to the polls two weeks before the vote. Pollsters have their reputations more on the line then, and will be more accurate.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> On my way home from my pinning guild, I heard some good advice on Fox. Pay attention to the polls two weeks before the vote. Pollsters have their reputations more on the line then, and will be more accurate.


Ok, I give up. What's a pinning guild?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

spinning guild. Must I spell everything out for you 

And no, I did not exercise


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > On my way home from my pinning guild, I heard some good advice on Fox. Pay attention to the polls two weeks before the vote. Pollsters have their reputations more on the line then, and will be more accurate.
> ...


I too wonder what she meant and had a picture in my mind of someone pricking people. :roll: :XD:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Watch out you two, I might, as the Queen, PIN you with a sharp sword, or at least my distaff


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Spinning Gold?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Is it also going to go into the castle treasure room....on the Right Side?....with my other stuff?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

On MY way home from Button Club meeting I heard David Webb (black conservative....therefore, MUST be an Uncle Tom) report that Barney Frank is campaigning AGAINST openly gay Rep. Tesei of Mass. because if Tesei (R) is elected it would be bad for the LBGT agenda. Huh????


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

snort


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## GeorgiaSong (Mar 28, 2012)

Emotionally, mentally, and physically I am better off as I was still employed 4 years ago. I retired Oct. 1, 2010 and LOVE it although it seems I am so busy. I've begun knitting and love yarn and learning new stitches. I also started gardening and love it. I once had 4 small/tiny dogs and now have 8 adorable tiny/small dogs, although they are all seniors except for one that is about 6-7 years old. Relative to the other 7, he's a youngster. Financially I guess I'm about the same as when I worked due to pensions, rental income (would rather sell than rent but take what comes), and Social Security (however small.) I feel I am so blessed to have what I do and especially my fur-babies and the knitting. So I ramble ... I am so happy being retired and in my current situation, not rich and building my yarn stash. I've met such nice people who are knitters, including one lovely lady I met via Knitting Paradise. What a lovely lady she is. Here are photo's of two of my fur-babies. Because neither of these yorkie sisters have teeth, the veterinarian dubbed them the "Gummy Bear Twins." Their owner's passed away about a year ago and requested they be adopted together. They are PRECIOUS! 

PS. I have a Southwest Pattern that Ann gave me. It's a challenge as I am a beginner. I would still love to have a Navajo / Native American / Southwest pattern that might be easier for me to tackle, a beginner or intermediate. The one Ann gave me is beautiful and I hope to do it justice one day!!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I love your saying. Though my dogs weigh a tad more than yours (Airedales 96 and 65 lbs)


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Very sweet pups, Georgia. Do you foster? I love the name "Gummy Bears"! :O) And...we are neighbors. One of my kids lives in Canton.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

they look so sweet, want one myself dog I mean. Haven't the heart right now. Had to put my German Shepard down Wooly Bear. He was a republican you know. He voted in the last two elections. No fraud intended.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> they look so sweet, want one myself dog I mean. Haven't the heart right now. Had to put my German Shepard down Wooly Bear. He was a republican you know. He voted in the last two elections. No fraud intended.


Was he registered by ACORN?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> snort


Not a word a Queen should use. Snort Snort. :XD:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> they look so sweet, want one myself dog I mean. Haven't the heart right now. Had to put my German Shepard down Wooly Bear. He was a republican you know. He voted in the last two elections. No fraud intended.


 :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > they look so sweet, want one myself dog I mean. Haven't the heart right now. Had to put my German Shepard down Wooly Bear. He was a republican you know. He voted in the last two elections. No fraud intended.
> ...


No he was into independant fraud, that way he could move into ever state. He was under cover so no one would think he commited fraud. They still don't... :roll:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No he was into independant fraud, that way he could move into ever state. He was under cover so no one would think he commited fraud. They still don't... :roll:


Hey Queen? I think theyarnlady's dog should be Knighted!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I love your saying. Though my dogs weigh a tad more than yours (Airedales 96 and 65 lbs)


You have Airdales ? So do I . Jojo weighs 120. Daisy is smaller about 90. My favorite dog but love all terriers. They are so loyal and sweet. Will love the family but go after an enemy. Got a wirehair Terrier too. Our Mitchie boy is a mess.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Cherf said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > No he was into independant fraud, that way he could move into ever state. He was under cover so no one would think he commited fraud. They still don't... :roll:
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GeorgiaSong (Mar 28, 2012)

Airedales are awesome and big.  My furry herd of eight ranges from 3-1/2 lbs to 10 lbs.. 4 Yorkies(one is 3-1/2 lbs., one is 4 lbs., two are 6 lbs.,, 1 blind Chihuahua (4 lbs.), 1 Yorkie Poo (6 lbs), 1 Bichon/Poodle (8 lbs), 1 Maltese (10 lbs.). Believe it or not, prior to these fur-babes, I had two Great Pyrenees before they traveled the Rainbow Bridge. Gunther was 140 lbs. and lost him in 2001. The petite female was only 120 lbs. and lost her in 2008 at about 12+ years old.


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## GeorgiaSong (Mar 28, 2012)

Airedales are awesome and big.  My furry herd of eight ranges from 3-1/2 lbs to 10 lbs.. 4 Yorkies(one is 3-1/2 lbs., one is 4 lbs., two are 6 lbs.,, 1 blind Chihuahua (4 lbs.), 1 Yorkie Poo (6 lbs), 1 Bichon/Poodle (8 lbs), 1 Maltese (10 lbs.). Believe it or not, prior to these fur-babes, I had two Great Pyrenees before they traveled the Rainbow Bridge. Gunther was 140 lbs. and lost him in 2001. The petite female was only 120 lbs. and lost her in 2008 at about 12+ years old.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

GeorgiaSong said:


> Emotionally, mentally, and physically I am better off as I was still employed 4 years ago. I retired Oct. 1, 2010 and LOVE it although it seems I am so busy. I've begun knitting and love yarn and learning new stitches. I also started gardening and love it. I once had 4 small/tiny dogs and now have 8 adorable tiny/small dogs, although they are all seniors except for one that is about 6-7 years old. Relative to the other 7, he's a youngster. Financially I guess I'm about the same as when I worked due to pensions, rental income (would rather sell than rent but take what comes), and Social Security (however small.) I feel I am so blessed to have what I do and especially my fur-babies and the knitting. So I ramble ... I am so happy being retired and in my current situation, not rich and building my yarn stash. I've met such nice people who are knitters, including one lovely lady I met via Knitting Paradise. What a lovely lady she is. Here are photo's of two of my fur-babies. Because neither of these yorkie sisters have teeth, the veterinarian dubbed them the "Gummy Bear Twins." Their owner's passed away about a year ago and requested they be adopted together. They are PRECIOUS!
> 
> PS. I have a Southwest Pattern that Ann gave me. It's a challenge as I am a beginner. I would still love to have a Navajo / Native American / Southwest pattern that might be easier for me to tackle, a beginner or intermediate. The one Ann gave me is beautiful and I hope to do it justice one day!!


Those 2 are sooo cute!


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > snort
> ...


LOL! Busted!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GeorgiaSong said:


> Airedales are awesome and big.  My furry herd of eight ranges from 3-1/2 lbs to 10 lbs.. 4 Yorkies(one is 3-1/2 lbs., one is 4 lbs., two are 6 lbs.,, 1 blind Chihuahua (4 lbs.), 1 Yorkie Poo (6 lbs), 1 Bichon/Poodle (8 lbs), 1 Maltese (10 lbs.). Believe it or not, prior to these fur-babes, I had two Great Pyrenees before they traveled the Rainbow Bridge. Gunther was 140 lbs. and lost him in 2001. The petite female was only 120 lbs. and lost her in 2008 at about 12+ years old.


Oh my you have a loving group there. Lucky you.


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## GeorgiaSong (Mar 28, 2012)

Yes, Roswell is not that far and Canton is just a Crow's Fly.  How about that! Nice to meet 'cha.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > lovethelake said:
> ...


I may have to go and snort at someone tonight. Maybe it could become a repb. cheer. 
I do know one lady I so would like to do it too.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Speaking of ACORN. You know Peter Lewis (head honcho at Progressive Insurance) is one of the largest contributors to Progressive aka Marxist causes in the country, right? Thus the name "Progressive" Insurance. Anyway, the other night I was watching the commercial where Flo is lying in bed and dreaming all these weird things that seemed to have nothing to do with insurance and there's this squirrel who steals an acorn, gets thrown in jail. At the very end of the clip, you see in her "dream bubble" a big ACORN and then she says the words "JUSTICE". Anyone else think that's a bit strange? Or is my brain working overtime?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


You'd better go have a cup of tea and knit awhile. Wouldn't want you to be put in time out just because of that.....lady?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

GeorgiaSong said:


> Yes, Roswell is not that far and Canton is just a Crow's Fly.  How about that! Nice to meet 'cha.


Nice to meet you too. Welcome!


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Speaking of ACORN. You know Peter Lewis (head honcho at Progressive Insurance) is one of the largest contributors to Progressive aka Marxist causes in the country, right? Thus the name "Progressive" Insurance. Anyway, the other night I was watching the commercial where Flo is lying in bed and dreaming all these weird things that seemed to have nothing to do with insurance and there's this squirrel who steals an acorn, gets thrown in jail. At the very end of the clip, you see in her "dream bubble" a big ACORN and then she says the words "JUSTICE". Anyone else think that's a bit strange? Or is my brain working overtime?


Wow .... I don't watch or try not to watch commercials, but I'll be looking out for this one now. Subtle huh?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GeorgiaSong said:


> Yes, Roswell is not that far and Canton is just a Crow's Fly.  How about that! Nice to meet 'cha.


Wow, small world. I visit my cousin in Roswell every year. I love it there! They live in a development called Inverness. Pretty neighborhood. But my favorite place there is the Porter Pub? (great steak salad0 and the Cast On Cottage. I always bring home some souvenier yarn. You ladies are lucky to live in such a nice place.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Sweet little baby, NWG! I've gotten some very nice yarn at COC.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Sweet little baby, NWG! I've gotten some very nice yarn at COC.


Thanks, Bydie, that's Brynn my new grandaughter. I was surprised when the COC moved. I loved the old house they had.
But hey, yarn is what I go for!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet little baby, NWG! I've gotten some very nice yarn at COC.
> ...


Oh you are blessed to have such a sweet little one. I bet grandma is spoiling her, and knitting up a storm with all the baby things to make.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of ACORN. You know Peter Lewis (head honcho at Progressive Insurance) is one of the largest contributors to Progressive aka Marxist causes in the country, right? Thus the name "Progressive" Insurance. Anyway, the other night I was watching the commercial where Flo is lying in bed and dreaming all these weird things that seemed to have nothing to do with insurance and there's this squirrel who steals an acorn, gets thrown in jail. At the very end of the clip, you see in her "dream bubble" a big ACORN and then she says the words "JUSTICE". Anyone else think that's a bit strange? Or is my brain working overtime?
> ...


I will have to have a look at that too. But the truth be told I wish she would get a new hair do. It looks like she uses a gallon of hair spray.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


She brightens my day! I have a sweater hat and bootie set almost finished for her. And a quilt that is almost done. She is growing so fast!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Sweet little baby, NWG! I've gotten some very nice yarn at COC.
> ...


The old COC house was very quaint and comfy, but kind of cramped. I love that whole area of town. Did you ever eat at The Fickle Pickle?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

One would have to have a brain in order for it to be overworked........................................................


Sorry, forgot you are a Republican, snorting


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> One would have to have a brain in order for it to be overworked........................................................
> 
> Sorry, forgot you are a Republican, snorting


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


She is blessed to have you in her life lady. :thumbup:


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> One would have to have a brain in order for it to be overworked........................................................
> 
> Sorry, forgot you are a Republican, snorting


Why!!!!!!!! I....otta! :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


She's a cutie pie, that's for sure. I can't wait for grand babies. I plan on giving mine a drum on their first birthday. Payback! Mwa-ha-ha.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


Oh now that is so funny and what a prefect gift.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


You can't do that they will leave it at your house with the Play-Doh you bought. :x


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> bonbf3 said:
> 
> 
> > Yarnlady, I too was grief-stricken to hear the polls. Then I heard that the Rasmussen poll has Romney ahead by three points. Also, there was a story on last week that said that sometimes they poll more of one party. For some reason, they don't correct for that. So - there's hope!!! Never give up!
> ...


I think so, too.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> On my way home from my pinning guild, I heard some good advice on Fox. Pay attention to the polls two weeks before the vote. Pollsters have their reputations more on the line then, and will be more accurate.


Much better for our blood pressure, too!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> On MY way home from Button Club meeting I heard David Webb (black conservative....therefore, MUST be an Uncle Tom) report that Barney Frank is campaigning AGAINST openly gay Rep. Tesei of Mass. because if Tesei (R) is elected it would be bad for the LBGT agenda. Huh????


Seriously?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> spinning guild. Must I spell everything out for you
> 
> And no, I did not exercise


Oh, phooey. I thought maybe there was guild for people who make beautiful pins. There should be!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> thumper5316 said:
> 
> 
> > theyarnlady said:
> ...


Only the stuff the kid didn't smoosh into their hair yet because they wanted to see what they looked like with green hair. Or eaten, of course. :-D


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

I am certainly better off today than I was 4 years ago. My husband retired in 2005 and I retired in 2011. We cashed in our poorly performing 401K crap (lost a great deal) and invested it ourselves. We bought 4 foreclosed homes and a 9 unit apartment building. We paid off the mortgages of a few other rental properties that we have. In the long run, instead of making a measly .01% return on our money, we are making 15-20% return. Life is good!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I am certainly better off today than I was 4 years ago. My husband retired in 2005 and I retired in 2011. We cashed in our poorly performing 401K crap (lost a great deal) and invested it ourselves. We bought 4 foreclosed homes and a 9 unit apartment building. We paid off the mortgages of a few other rental properties that we have. In the long run, instead of making a measly .01% return on our money, we are making 15-20% return. Life is good!


Remarkable! Congratulations on your good judgment and good decisions.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I am certainly better off today than I was 4 years ago. My husband retired in 2005 and I retired in 2011. We cashed in our poorly performing 401K crap (lost a great deal) and invested it ourselves. We bought 4 foreclosed homes and a 9 unit apartment building. We paid off the mortgages of a few other rental properties that we have. In the long run, instead of making a measly .01% return on our money, we are making 15-20% return. Life is good!


Awesome advice! I know that my husband and I are paying closer attention to our 401 distributions and have been making some changes. We're tired of losing our shirts and making minimal headway.


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## gma11331 (Oct 18, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I am certainly better off today than I was 4 years ago. My husband retired in 2005 and I retired in 2011. We cashed in our poorly performing 401K crap (lost a great deal) and invested it ourselves. We bought 4 foreclosed homes and a 9 unit apartment building. We paid off the mortgages of a few other rental properties that we have. In the long run, instead of making a measly .01% return on our money, we are making 15-20% return. Life is good!


When we first married DH has a small duplex rental property and we kept trading up thru the years. When we married I went from executive secretary to char lady, as we did all the work on the properties ourselves, cleaning up after tenants, etc. But it was all worth it. Congratulations on your smart thinking.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I'm glad you are better off due to your initiative and your wise choices. 

Today I just received an email with a picture of our dead Ambassador being dragged through the streets of Libya. Our country is NOT better off, and if Iran is as close as they say to having a nuclear weapon, that could be you, me, our sons and daughters - being dragged through the streets of our own little towns. The extremists want to take over. Given the help of nuclear weapons and our own administration, they may just do it. And it won't be pretty.

One nuclear bomb dropped in any one of our cities will change all of our lives forever.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Reading the last two posts I realize that there are several different discussions going on within this thread. They are in my humble opinion: financial loss/gain, freedoms loss/gain, security loss/gain, and probably more.

In all honesty, my finances are not in as good of shape as they were 3.5 years ago, but my loss of freedoms and sense of security that have occurred over the last 3.5 years hurt more than the money.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Reading the last two posts I realize that there are several different discussions going on within this thread. They are in my humble opinion: financial loss/gain, freedoms loss/gain, security loss/gain, and probably more.
> 
> In all honesty, my finances are not in as good of shape as they were 3.5 years ago, but my loss of freedoms and sense of security that have occurred over the last 3.5 years hurt more than the money.


Same here, lovethelake.

Bonnie (bonbf3)


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Reading the last two posts I realize that there are several different discussions going on within this thread. They are in my humble opinion: financial loss/gain, freedoms loss/gain, security loss/gain, and probably more.
> ...


So agree, money comes and goes. But freedom lost can not return unless we as a people try to contain what our goverment is doing. Spending, freedom to control our lives, ect. seem to be taken over by a goverment, that has gone out of control.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I agree with y'all money is needed to survive but so is freedom. I am getting upset watching the world news. We all need to watch what is going on . Pay attention to the details . We need a leader that watches out for us not himself! God help the USA!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree with y'all money is needed to survive but so is freedom. I am getting upset watching the world news. We all need to watch what is going on . Pay attention to the details . We need a leader that watches out for us not himself! God help the USA!


Amen.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.


Amen Sis!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh I for one am so glad our military has suffer enough. 

Where is the promise four years ago to bring them home.

why must they take a reduction in pay, because our goverment can not pass a budget in a timely manner.

What in the heck is wrong with this picture of a president who can not lead. 

he is suppose to be about the goverments business.

why why why??????????????


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.
> ...


Very well said, Bydie.


----------



## Grandma327 (May 22, 2012)

Bydie said:


> More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.


Well said! Thank you for your support of our troops. As a mother of a soldier it means a lot.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.


Bydie
And the Republicans are screaming to stay in Afghanistan.
President Barack Obama has done extremely well. I know you don't like it but facts do matter.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.
> ...


Ingried, I try to be courteous. But you are both wrong AND delusional! Why do you think Obimination is trying to block the voting rights of the military in Ohio. It's because it's a swing state and he doesn't want to lose it. He knows what's happening.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Republicans are not screaming to stay in Afghanistan. What an idiotic and ill informed thing to say. Why would I want more of our servicemen and women stay in harms way. The problem, as I see it, is that to leave before the conclusion of the mission would be wrong, cowardly, and weak.

Show me where Republicans are screaming to stay in Afghanistan just for the fun of war, and I will apologize.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried says <President Barack Obama has done extremely well.>

Well, that explains a lot about why we are where we are in the economy, jobs, debt, welfare numbers, unemployment, national security breaches, etc. etc.. It appears that the Marxists set a VERY LOW BAR!....if that's their idea of doing "extremely well".


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Bydie said:


> More than 1,000 American soldiers have lost their lives in Afghanistan in the last 27 months. This is more than the combined total of the nine years before. Thirty have died in August. The commander in chief is AWOL. Not a peep, although he ordered the White House flag flown at half mast for the Sihks that were killed. There is a deep disgust, a fury, growing in the ranks of the military against the indifferent incompetence of this president. It has taken on a dangerous tone. No one knows what to do about him, but the anger runs deep as the deaths continue with no strategic end in sight to the idiocy of this war. Obama has had 4 years to end this futile insanity, during which time he has vacationed, golfed, campaigned, and generally ignored the plight of our men and women in uniform. But, there is now a movement afoot in the armed services to launch a massive get out the vote drive against this president. Not just current active duty types, but the National Guard, Reserves, the retired, and all other prior service members. This is no small special interest group, but many millions of veterans who can have an enormous impact on the outcome of the November election if they all respond. The million military retirees in Florida alone could mean an overwhelming victory in that state if they all show up at the polls. It might not keep another one hundred U.S. troops from dying between now and November, but a turn out to vote by the military against this heart breaking lack of leadership can make a powerful statement that hastens a change to the indifference of this shallow little man who just lets our soldiers die.


I've shed many a tear this weekend alone. I'm a bowl of jello at any homecoming celebration or service. I, remember, all too well when my and other military families' absentee ballots were not sent in time so as not to have the military votes 'count' when those, like us, were not in the USA but serving overseas.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

It WILL NOT happen in this election. Take solace in that.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It WILL NOT happen in this election. Take solace in that.


Oh he has done one thing concerning the war: HE'S ANNOUNCED TO THE ENEMY OUR DEPARTURE DATE! 
Good job Obomination in Chief


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

If you are speaking about freedom and whether one is better off than 4 years ago. The game changed in America once 9/11 happen. I fly very rarely because of that tragic day. However, I still must live my life and take responsibility for my own happiness each day.

My grandfather fought in WW1, my husband is a disabled Vietnam Vet, my only son is a disabled Dessert Storm Vet. I understand the conflict and loss of our dear soldiers on foreign soil. It is personal for me. But, that being said, I will not allow anyone to stop my from living and enjoying my life because of fear that a bomb may fall on my hometown tomorrow. If I did, then the enemy will have won. 


lovethelake said:


> Reading the last two posts I realize that there are several different discussions going on within this thread. They are in my humble opinion: financial loss/gain, freedoms loss/gain, security loss/gain, and probably more.
> 
> In all honesty, my finances are not in as good of shape as they were 3.5 years ago, but my loss of freedoms and sense of security that have occurred over the last 3.5 years hurt more than the money.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> If you are speaking about freedom and whether one is better off than 4 years ago. The game changed in America once 9/11 happen. I fly very rarely because of that tragic day. However, I still must live my life and take responsibility for my own happiness each day.
> 
> My grandfather fought in WW1, my husband is a disabled Vietnam Vet, my only son is a disabled Dessert Storm Vet. I understand the conflict and loss of our dear soldiers on foreign soil. It is personal for me. But, that being said, I will not allow anyone to stop my from living and enjoying my life because of fear that a bomb may fall on my hometown tomorrow. If I did, then the enemy will have won.
> 
> Well said, Uyvonne, Thank you for your family's service and sacrifice. God bless you!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Thank you family for their service, and I will pray for them

My loss of freedom, is as a Catholic, the loss of my Freedom of Religion. My loss of freedom is the freedom to make personal choices (forcing me to buy health care or be punished by the government). My loss of financial security due to overwhelming and punitive taxes, doubled gas prices, difficulty to afford food due to incredibly high food prices, unable to sell my home if I had to due to the housing crisis, my retirement not having grown do to low interest rates and the flooding of the economy of a third bail out...............

On the important fronts, life under Obama has been horrible and tragic.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thank you family for their service, and I will pray for them
> 
> My loss of freedom, is as a Catholic, the loss of my Freedom of Religion. My loss of freedom is the freedom to make personal choices (forcing me to buy health care or be punished by the government). My loss of financial security due to overwhelming and punitive taxes, doubled gas prices, difficulty to afford food due to incredibly high food prices, unable to sell my home if I had to due to the housing crisis, my retirement not having grown do to low interest rates and the flooding of the economy of a third bail out...............
> 
> On the important fronts, life under Obama has been horrible and tragic.


Sadly so. I feel so sorry for those who lost jobs, then went through their savings, and in the end lost their homes. They lost some dreams, too - like college educations for their children. Very sad to have all that gone through no fault of your own. I hope Romney wins and we can get this country moving again.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


I may be all you said and you are totally without respect.
Tschuess, adieu for now.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> If you are speaking about freedom and whether one is better off than 4 years ago. The game changed in America once 9/11 happen. I fly very rarely because of that tragic day. However, I still must live my life and take responsibility for my own happiness each day.
> 
> My grandfather fought in WW1, my husband is a disabled Vietnam Vet, my only son is a disabled Dessert Storm Vet. I understand the conflict and loss of our dear soldiers on foreign soil. It is personal for me. But, that being said, I will not allow anyone to stop my from living and enjoying my life because of fear that a bomb may fall on my hometown tomorrow. If I did, then the enemy will have won.
> 
> ...


Oh lady I am truly sorry for what you have gone through in your life, but I am so proud of you and your family for what they have done serving their country, and what you and your family had to over come in your life. May you truly be bless with a sense of peace as you deserve it...


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## Pauline (Jan 23, 2011)

No Way!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm fine. Thanks for asking.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

We are fine. 
I can also report that no Restraurant around us - and there are many and more opening - is lacking Patrons.
Now I do see more and more People using coupons. Good for
all of them.
I also see People not checking the price of any item as I always do. 
I am also aware that many People in other parts of the City where I reside are struggling and I am happily paying Taxes to help them get back onto their feet.
Many are back in some School to acquire additional Skills.
My Fellow Americans now deserve a hand up, they have
given freely for ever. 
As long as we support other Countries without checking who gets our support - most of the time it is not the People who need it - I have no problem with anyone of us being assisted.
The percentage of the cheaters among those is lower than the percentage of rich cheating on their Taxes, I assure you.


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## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

Socialism at it's core is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and property. i.e. a) no private property, b) production is owned and controlled by the state c) distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done." Websters Nineth New Collegiate Dictionary.

I've worked hard all my life and paid my taxes, and paid my mortgage, I don't intend to give it all to the Obamination government. If I want to start my own business and employ workers I will not allow the government to tell me what I can and can't make. 3) I will not give to those who cannot do for themselves because they are lazy and don't have the work ethic to actually get up every day and put in a hard days work. If you take exception to this then you must be one of those. 

I'm all about taking care of our fellow man, but there does have to be some equity otherwise I will not be able to continue to help. Take away my right to own my own property, make my own living, and tell me what I can and cannot do is basically taking away not just my freedom but the freedom of those I might also be able to help. 

Obama WANTS TO KEEP PEOPLE POOR, so they can't take care of themselves and they then turn for whatever help the government (the taxpayers) will 'give' to them on that particular day, depending on what so-called law they chose to follow that day. If the government continues to penalize, and take from the so-called 'rich' who pay the majority of the taxes (redistribution of the wealth) and who employ most of the workforce in this country, and then double and triple tax them for employing others to work, then the government is cutting off it's nose to spite it's face and it will be the end of the civil society as we know it. 

It's Marxism, Communisim and against our United States Constitution. I hope to goodness the country wakes up and smells the stink coming from Washington right now.

I'm voting Romney/Ryan.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Stitch1234 - I agree 100% percent!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> Socialism at it's core is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and property. i.e. a) no private property, b) production is owned and controlled by the state c) distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done." Websters Nineth New Collegiate Dictionary.
> 
> I've worked hard all my life and paid my taxes, and paid my mortgage, I don't intend to give it all to the Obamination government. If I want to start my own business and employ workers I will not allow the government to tell me what I can and can't make. 3) I will not give to those who cannot do for themselves because they are lazy and don't have the work ethic to actually get up every day and put in a hard days work. If you take exception to this then you must be one of those.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't believe that diatribe. I'm voting for President Obama and Vice President Biden......and every other Democrat on the ballot. I've never done that before, but I feel that a message must be sent.


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## Txlvs2knit (Aug 12, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> Socialism at it's core is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and property. i.e. a) no private property, b) production is owned and controlled by the state c) distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done." Websters Nineth New Collegiate Dictionary.
> 
> I've worked hard all my life and paid my taxes, and paid my mortgage, I don't intend to give it all to the Obamination government. If I want to start my own business and employ workers I will not allow the government to tell me what I can and can't make. 3) I will not give to those who cannot do for themselves because they are lazy and don't have the work ethic to actually get up every day and put in a hard days work. If you take exception to this then you must be one of those.
> 
> ...


Thoughtful and well written. How anyone could read this and still think they are voting for Obama!! It makes me very afraid for our country.

My vote is also for Romney/Ryan!!!


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

snoozi_suzi said:


> I don't believe that diatribe. I'm voting for President Obama and Vice President Biden......and every other Democrat on the ballot. I've never done that before, but I feel that a message must be sent.


Dagnabbit! Now I have to vote for Romney/Ryan and every other Republican on the ballot, just to balance it out! :roll:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> snoozi_suzi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe that diatribe. I'm voting for President Obama and Vice President Biden......and every other Democrat on the ballot. I've never done that before, but I feel that a message must be sent.
> ...


Hi Barbara Ann! Are you sending a message too; like you understand the issues, want to see America prosper as well as her citizens, and understand the difference between the two wanting the premier title?


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

I am so sick of people complaining that Romney is rich. Just because he is rich doesn't make them poor. And even if we are all given the exact same wages, some of us will work harder, smarter, and make wiser choices to make our income greater. 

I truly am voting for Romney. I liked what he did do for MA when he was governor and I hope he will be able to do the same for America as a whole.

I just don't think handing out the riches of others to everyone else is going to teach people to stand on their own, nor is it going to save us. Yes, we all deserve the benefits, BUT they have to be earned!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Barbara Ann

You are brilliant, you have earned a new pair of shoes.

See me in the Royal Shoe room in the morning

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> snoozi_suzi said:
> 
> 
> > I don't believe that diatribe. I'm voting for President Obama and Vice President Biden......and every other Democrat on the ballot. I've never done that before, but I feel that a message must be sent.
> ...


Oh you too too funny but know you mean it. :thumbup:


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Barbara Ann
> 
> You are brilliant, you have earned a new pair of shoes.
> 
> ...


I myself think she deserves more than one pair.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Barbara Ann
> ...


Ooohh....red, and hmmmm.....black? silver? red-black-and silver combined??? hmmmm....gotta sleep on this one! :thumbup:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> lovethelake said:
> 
> 
> > Barbara Ann
> ...


Maybe she should be appointed public relations attach-ee for the Queen? We could declare it a semi-royal position. Surely Her Majesty could write an executive order?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> Socialism at it's core is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and property. i.e. a) no private property, b) production is owned and controlled by the state c) distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done." Websters Nineth New Collegiate Dictionary.
> 
> I've worked hard all my life and paid my taxes, and paid my mortgage, I don't intend to give it all to the Obamination government. If I want to start my own business and employ workers I will not allow the government to tell me what I can and can't make. 3) I will not give to those who cannot do for themselves because they are lazy and don't have the work ethic to actually get up every day and put in a hard days work. If you take exception to this then you must be one of those.
> 
> ...


STITCH124
You are so full of mis-statements.
....end of civil Society as we know it". What are you smoking?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> STITCH124 said:
> 
> 
> > Socialism at it's core is "any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods and property. i.e. a) no private property, b) production is owned and controlled by the state c) distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done." Websters Nineth New Collegiate Dictionary.
> ...


Stitch124 - So am I!


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## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

I think the real question is what has the Obamanation been smoking!!!! 

Just for the record..... I don't smoke...never have and never will. Don't drink either....especially not the kool-aid!!!

My opinions count just like anyone else's, not mis-statement. Not stating anything incorrectly. 

IMHO, this country is going to hell in a handbasket and Obama is leading the mis-informed down that yellow brick road spin-zone. I will not be lead by the nose by someone who can't speak for himself but only through a teleprompter and when he does, he speaks nothing but lies and deception. Lying by omission is still lying and I won't vote for someone who doesn't know the meaning of speaking the truth!


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

For the first time in my life, I am truly afraid for this country if OWEbama is reelected. This man has shown his comtempt for this country, its Constitution, and its laws with every move he makes and every executive order he signs. He wants a permanent underclass that the Progs can rule.We are heading in the wrong direction for sure. Do we really want Hollywood values in this country? Do we want half the people in the country on the dole? Obama does. I don't.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> For the first time in my life, I am truly afraid for this country if OWEbama is reelected. This man has shown his comtempt for this country, its Constitution, and its laws with every move he makes and every executive order he signs. He wants a permanent underclass that the Progs can rule.We are heading in the wrong direction for sure. Do we really want Hollywood values in this country? Do we want half the people in the country on the dole? Obama does. I don't.


I am with you Carol. Just like Madonna, Holly Wood is going to Hell with Obama as their leader. Trying to take us with them. People WAKE UP you are being deceived!


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## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

Anyone who plans to vote for Obama and agrees with his political views, should take a few minutes to read this. It's ok to change your mind after reading this. We welcome your vote for Romney/Ryan, that is if you want your freedom. If you don't like Obama, it would be good to read it anyway. Very enlightening and gives more good reasons to vote for R/R ticket. I especially liked the comments after the article. Take time to read and enjoy!

http://www.redstate.com/2012/09/25/president-obama-declares-the-future-must-not-belong-to-practicing-christians/#

"When he(Obama) repeatedly rejected observances of the (Christian) National Day of Prayer and then celebrated Ramadan in the White House instead, we saw his actual motivators. Hopefully enough of the electorate is now awake to determine to insure he is VOTED OUT this coming November 6th. May God so save America!" -- quote from vtdelacy in the comments section after this article.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Atleast the GOP didn't have to lie on national TV to have God in our Platform. When is a 2/3 majority not a majority? When Dems vote


God bless the US


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

STITCH124 said:


> I think the real question is what has the Obamanation been smoking!!!!
> 
> Just for the record..... I don't smoke...never have and never will. Don't drink either....especially not the kool-aid!!!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

ALERT DEAR SUBJECTS

At 4:45 EST on NMV (channel 130 on my TV) The Hope and The Change....................

Edict,must bewatched or DVD'd

The Queen


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ALERT DEAR SUBJECTS
> 
> At 4:45 EST on NMV (channel 130 on my TV) The Hope and The Change....................
> 
> ...


I"ll look for it!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The United States fought the Revolutionary War so citizens would not have a queen or king. This was pre-prada, I believe.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ALERT DEAR SUBJECTS
> 
> At 4:45 EST on NMV (channel 130 on my TV) The Hope and The Change....................
> 
> ...


For the humble subjects without Direct TV (like me), would you please give us your opinion on the show after you see it?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Atleast the GOP didn't have to lie on national TV to have God in our Platform. When is a 2/3 majority not a majority? When Dems vote
> 
> God bless the US


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ALERT DEAR SUBJECTS
> 
> At 4:45 EST on NMV (channel 130 on my TV) The Hope and The Change....................
> 
> ...


Not sure what program to watch? :?:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

My son found it for me. I have Dish by the way. That is the only way that I can get any TV, live in a cove and can't even get AM radio.

But it is being taped, will give an update when I watch it.


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## STITCH124 (Aug 2, 2011)

http://thehopeandthechange.com/trailer.aspx


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

God. Prayer.

Isn't it better to be humble and pray to God in private?

I guess the Bible is wrong.

I still believe in separation of Church and State too.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

snoozi_suzi said:


> God. Prayer.
> 
> Isn't it better to be humble and pray to God in private?
> 
> ...


I don't know how (or if you do) worship, but at Mass we are all praying aloud during the Litergy, and can pray privately before and after Mass and Communion.

Didn't Jesus pray to His Father aloud? If he had done it in private, none of us would have known His love for Him

I also believe in the separation of Church and State (which is not in the Constitution) AND Freedom of Religion. That is why the Obama HSS edict is not only forcing me to violate my conscience but is unConstitutional.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

I wonder how snoozi-suzi will be treated, if, she reaches the gatekeepers of Heaven. If she thinks the Bible is wrong, what is her moral compass? Then, again, I guess she doesn't expect to arrive at Heaven's door.

She cannot be a Christian nor a Catholic since she agrees to want Obama in office and Obama doesn't believe in separation of Church and State. If he did, Obama would not have taken on the Catholic Church ramming down their throat with his birth control demands that he demanded be afforded by the Catholic Church. 

I don't understand what religion she could be part of because as far as I know, all religions believe in keeping the govt out of their sacred places.

Is there an Obama religion I don't know about yet?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Oh darlin'

Just pray for her, that she finds peace in her soul. It must be so difficult to be riled up all the time.

Hope you are having a wonderful afternoon. Sunny here, bought some steaks and going to have my son do his manly chore and grill.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ALERT DEAR SUBJECTS
> 
> At 4:45 EST on NMV (channel 130 on my TV) The Hope and The Change....................
> 
> ...


Got the message, and is noted.


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh darlin'
> 
> Just pray for her, that she finds peace in her soul. It must be so difficult to be riled up all the time.
> 
> Hope you are having a wonderful afternoon. Sunny here, bought some steaks and going to have my son do his manly chore and grill.


Sounds wonderful. I'm working on a client's tax return; he is very evil because he makes a ton of $ AND pays handsomely in taxes and started two (yes 2) charitable organizations. How dare he .... I'm keeping a good eye on him though.


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## Barbara Ann (Mar 18, 2011)

Well aren't you entitled to some of his hard earned riches?????


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Barbara Ann said:


> Well aren't you entitled to some of his hard earned riches?????


Nah, I only accept compensation I've _earned_.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

snoozi_suzi said:


> God. Prayer.
> 
> Isn't it better to be humble and pray to God in private?
> 
> ...


You are going to have to prove to me there is such a thing. I have never seen it. Separation of Church and State is a myth.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> My son found it for me. I have Dish by the way. That is the only way that I can get any TV, live in a cove and can't even get AM radio.
> 
> But it is being taped, will give an update when I watch it.


Thanks, Lovethelake.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > snoozi_suzi said:
> ...


Thank you! That is what I thought. Myth.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I think I shall never see an election that is driving me up a tree.
A tree whose tender roots are held against Obama's flowing words. 
Alittle lie here a little lie there and no one see but the reb I see.

Scary is as scary must be can't wait to vote for ROmney you see.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

To Quote another person on here.
If you can't say anything nice, say nothing.This was said on another post. 
It was about Obama doll. Anyone here know of this?????


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## Cherf (Dec 7, 2011)

Those in the Progressive group tell us again and again that separation of church and state is a 'right' and in the Constit! Then they also preach that the Catholic church has no right or authority to deem the beliefs of the Church - like the church must allow gay marriage, abortion and birth control etc. what a mess!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cherf said:


> Those in the Progressive group tell us again and again that separation of church and state is a 'right' and in the Constit! Then they also preach that the Catholic church has no right or authority to deem the beliefs of the Church - like the church must allow gay marriage, abortion and birth control etc. what a mess!


They're just plain wrong there. The government might approve gay marriage, but the churches have the right to disallow it in their churches. So a gay couple could have a civil marriage and the rights that go along with that, without necessarily being married in their church.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> snoozi_suzi said:
> 
> 
> > God. Prayer.
> ...


I agree with you!


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## Deborah Caldwell (Oct 2, 2012)

Yes. I am better off. I have lost all of my assets as a displaced housewife, and lost them within the last four years. But my attitude has settled down. I am surrounded by positive vibrations. I am in subsidized housing in a village with no vehicle for the last 18 months, which is quite the challenge. But my diet is fantastic, as I cook and study natural food and good health, my life is sweet. I am much better off.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I wish I could live without a car and not have a mortgage.
If that were the case, I would be better off. But I have a mortgage, which is my responsibility and glad to have a home. Refinancing is almost impossible to do, the banks are too scared.

Gas prices have doubled in the past 3+ years. I live in rural Virginia, which I love and appreciate the gift that I have to live here. But one of the reasons I live in a rural area is because I can not afford the taxes in Northern Virginia. I must drive over 45 minutes to get to stores. If gas were back to the level of three years ago, I would have hundreds of dollars to spend on needed necessities.

My property taxes have also gone up. Groceries are higher, and I do cook for myself to eat healthy meals. 

SoI am not better off


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I wish I could live without a car and not have a mortgage.
> If that were the case, I would be better off. But I have a mortgage, which is my responsibility and glad to have a home. Refinancing is almost impossible to do, the banks are too scared.
> 
> Gas prices have doubled in the past 3+ years. I live in rural Virginia, which I love and appreciate the gift that I have to live here. But one of the reasons I live in a rural area is because I can not afford the taxes in Northern Virginia. I must drive over 45 minutes to get to stores. If gas were back to the level of three years ago, I would have hundreds of dollars to spend on needed necessities.
> ...


In spite of all this, Lovethelake, you have a beautiful and positive attitude and bring joy to KP.


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