# P.O.V. Liberal



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request.


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## annjaneice (Nov 11, 2011)

.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request.


Hi Cheeky! I'm watching the march and listening to the speakers now. Inspiring!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hi GW - Welcome to the new thread. So good to have you here. I remember Dr. King's speech and that day as if it were just yesterday. I didn't get to hear President Obama's speech from today so I will watch it later. The 60's were such a tumultuous time and we lost a lot of wonderful leaders that decade. I will be posting a few videos a photos so if you would like to share anything you have please feel free.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

For those of you who would like to watch it again here is Dr. King's "I Have a Dream" speech from August 28, 1963.

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/45507651921/martin_luther_king_jrs_i_have_a_dream_speech_turns_50


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

What does the dot mean?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

She didn't really intend to post here.


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## nitnana (Feb 3, 2013)

I, too, just watched President Obama and others speak - what a wonderful idea for a thread. May I ask a stupid question - how does a thread work? Liberal - freedom for all - let freedom ring! I agree! :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She didn't really intend to post here.


Thanks - you never know - there are many new acronyms, etc., and I don't really keep up.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

I am for Dr. King's Dream advancing until all are considered equally important and respected. We are created equal in the eyes of God and He loves and cares for all of us equally. I hope that in my lifetime there will be more joining together in every way. I am thankful for all the leaders who put on this celebration every year and I have great love and respect for John Lewis. I pray hard for our future because it seems to be taking a giant leap back to the past. I believe God has already blessed our country and we just need to be thankful.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

nitnana said:


> I, too, just watched President Obama and others speak - what a wonderful idea for a thread. May I ask a stupid question - how does a thread work? Liberal - freedom for all - let freedom ring! I agree! :thumbup:


I would be happy to tell you. You just post here just as you did. You are welcome to bring ideas, pictures, sources of interest to you, ask questions and just join in on ongoing conversations. I am hoping we can keep this thread positive and not let it turn into a Liberal vs. Conservative thread. That is already out there for people who prefer to be confrontational and I think many of us would like a breath of fresh air from that and have an exchange of ideas with other Liberals. The intent is not to change anyone's politics only to share our common interests. Please join us if that appeals to you. If we should receive negative posts it is just best to ignore them. The loyal opposition only engages us for one reason and it is to cause havoc and I am choosing to be a pacifist on this thread.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

LizAnne said:


> I am for Dr. King's Dream advancing until all are considered equally important and respected. We are created equal in the eyes of God and He loves and cares for all of us equally. I hope that in my lifetime there will be more joining together in every way. I live in the South and there is more prejudice here. I hope that will change, but it has a long way to go. I am thankful for all the leaders who put on this celebration every year and I have great love and respect for John Lewis. I pray hard for our future because it seems to be taking a giant leap back to the past. I believe God has already blessed our country and we just need to be thankful.


Welcome back - LizAnne. So glad you came to join us. I have had it with the negative political threads on KP and would like to keep this thread peaceful as Dr. King and Ghandi showed us how we can behave and still accomplish great things. I see a lot of bad things going on and as you said we still have a ways to go. We won't get there by arguing with others on KP who disagree with us and I choose just to ignore anyone who posts on this thread in that manner. If we don't engage them with hostility we win and it only reflects badly on people who want to cause rifts on KP or anywhere for that matter. Hope you will stay with us and enjoy the thread.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

I am so proud today to be an American. I could not say that 50 years ago. I was only 12 years old when Dr. King made that magnificent speech. We all knew that he was a special man. His dream gave dreams to so many that we could strive to reach our fullest potential.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I am so proud today to be an American. I could not say that 50 years ago. I was only 12 years old when Dr. King made that magnificent speech. We all knew that he was a special man. His dream gave dreams to so many that we could strive to reach our fullest potential.


So true, Uyvonne. I will always believe that Dr. King was a man of destiny and inspired by God just as Lincoln was. His dream is the dream of all Americans and we must keep hope alive for all God's children. We still have a ways to go but we must journey on together.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Hi, Cheeky. Thanks for starting such an inspiring thread!
The Civil Rights Era was slightly before my time, but wow I still remember my mother's stories about how people fought back peacefully against segregation. My favorite was the how the "whites only" supermarkets were dealt with. My parents and others would fill shopping carts to the brim, then abandon them in the aisles. Store managers were fit to be tied as of course every item had to be returned to the shelves, and soon they were dealing with hundreds of such carts per day. They got the message very quickly!


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

I am envious of all of you, I'm too young to have seen that speech so for me it is something to be studied in history books. But I agree, we're moving in a poaitive direction, I was thrilled when Obama was elected twice. I'm so sick of this country being ruled by old, rich, white men. Time for diversity- looking forward to the time when gender, and sexual orientation won't matter as well.


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## Colorado knits (Jul 6, 2011)

I was not able to hear President Obama today, but I'm sure there will be plenty of reruns this evening. 

I would like to think that we've made a lot of progress in 50 years, and I guess we have; However,I'm upset by the backsliding in the last few years. 

Since President Obama became president, hatred has reared its ugly head and even seem to be acceptable.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

"Lift Every Voice" lyrics written by James Weldon Johnson in 1900, melody by Rosamond Johnson

Lift every voice and sing, till earth and Heaven ring,
Ring with the harmonies of liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise, high as the listening skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us;
Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on till victory is won.

Stony the road we trod, bitter the chastening rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
Yet with a steady beat, have not our weary feet
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered;
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered;
Out from the gloomy past, till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

God of our weary years, God of our silent tears,
Thou Who hast brought us thus far on the way;
Thou Who hast by Thy might, led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee.
Lest our hearts, drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee.
Shadowed beneath Thy hand, may we forever stand,
True to our God, true to our native land.[5]


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I think MLK would be ecstatic to see Barak Obama in the White House today, but he would be disillusioned with the disparity in school systems, in unequal opportunity, in the act of the Supreme Court chopping up the Voting Rights Act, in states once again trying to suppress the minority vote. Does it seem that in the 50 years since the March on Washington African-Americans have attained true equality?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think MLK would be ecstatic to see Barak Obama in the White House today, but he would be disillusioned with the disparity in school systems, in unequal opportunity, in the act of the Supreme Court chopping up the Voting Rights Act, in states once again trying to suppress the minority vote. Does it seem that in the 50 years since the March on Washington African-Americans have attained true equality?


No, Al we all have a ways to go yet. There will always be the hateful naysayers who will try to suppress other's freedom so we have to speak up and stand up for what is right. Too many others have fought and died in this battle and we owe it to them and to our posterity to keep freedom alive for all of us.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Something Bill Clinton said today really struck a chord with me. 
" A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> Something Bill Clinton said today really struck a chord with me.
> " A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."


Love that one


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

My niece, living in Ohio has a teen age son in high school. He came home and said he thought his history teacher might be racist. He came home with notes from class explaining what history was and the part people play in history. 
She listed different types of people, including citizens, non citizens, voters, registered voters, undocumented aliens, aliens, ******** (and she turned to the class and said "you all know what these are"), nuns, Hell's Angels motorcycle gang members, Amish, Indians, teenagers, toddlers, and "seniors". Don't know why seniors was in quotations, but maybe more info to come on that. My niece did talk to the principal and the teacher did apologize if she offended anyone, but then carried on talking about Mexicans and other minorities as if nothing had happened. I am sure there will be more to follow. My niece will not let it rest if the teacher continues to use that kind of language. I hate it when someone uses aliens instead of immigrants, let alone using ********.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> Something Bill Clinton said today really struck a chord with me.
> " A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon."


Me too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> My niece, living in Ohio has a teen age son in high school. He came home and said he thought his history teacher might be racist. He came home with notes from class explaining what history was and the part people play in history.
> She listed different types of people, including citizens, non citizens, voters, registered voters, undocumented aliens, aliens, ******** (and she turned to the class and said "you all know what these are"), nuns, Hell's Angels motorcycle gang members, Amish, Indians, teenagers, toddlers, and "seniors". Don't know why seniors was in quotations, but maybe more info to come on that. My niece did talk to the principal and the teacher did apologize if she offended anyone, but then carried on talking about Mexicans and other minorities as if nothing had happened. I am sure there will be more to follow. My niece will not let it rest if the teacher continues to use that kind of language. I hate it when someone uses aliens instead of immigrants, let alone using ********.


She was wrong on 2 counts NJG. The Mexican immingants were called ******** because they had to cross the Rio Grande to get here. She should be disciplined for that.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is nothing racist in the words themselves, it will depend on how she is using them. Is she defining them? telling the students how they were used in history? I would think much more information is needed before the teacher is labeled.


From what NJG said, I think this was a racial slur.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> "She listed different types of people, including citizens, non citizens, voters, registered voters, undocumented aliens, aliens, ********"
> 
> I see nothing racist here, it is a list of different types of people. I'm sure the capital letters were by NJG. Why are you so quick to call someone a racist with the use of one or two words, when you do not know the context of what was said?
> 
> ...


Included in a list of other nouns referred to as different types of people, "********" does not belong there. According to what we were told, that was the context.
And I was once a teacher, too, so I'm also willing to give the benefit of the doubt.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Even John Boehner knows that this is an offensive and derogatory name and should not be used by anyone in our society. Case in point U.S. Don Young (R-AK) This is the 21st century and we don't use those words anymore in this country.
I think this teacher needs some further instruction of her own before she continues to teach children or she should have a very good explanation for her remarks.

In a rare open rebuke of a colleague from his own party, U.S. House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) demanded that a Republican Congressman from Alaska immediately apologize for calling Latino farm workers "********."
In an interview with an Alaskan radio station, U.S. Rep. Don Young (R-AK) used the derogatory term when describing the California farm workers who picked tomatoes on his fathers California farm when he was younger.
Congressman Youngs remarks were offensive and beneath the dignity of the office he holds," Boehner said. "I dont care why he said it  theres no excuse and it warrants an immediate apology.
Young's remarks prompted a firestorm in social media and brought a swift reaction from lawmakers on both sides of the political aisle. 
"I used to own - my father had a ranch. We used to hire 50 to 60 ******** to pick tomatoes, Young said in the interview. You know it takes two people to pick the same tomatoes now. It's all done by machine."
The term "*******" is considered an ethnic slur referring to Mexican or Mexican-Americans in general and undocumented immigrants in particular. It has been applied to Mexicans who entered Texas by crossing the Rio Grande River either by swimming or wading across the water.
The first reference of the term in print appeared in the New York Times in 1920 and in 1954 the U.S. government named a mass deportation effort of Mexican nationals "Operation *******."
Youngs comments were picked up soon after by bloggers, sparking anger and a quick response from Youngs office. The lawmaker regretted his comment, saying he meant no disrespect but stopped short of making a full apology.
During a sit-down interview with Ketchikan Public Radio this week, I used a term that was commonly used during my days growing up on a farm in Central California, he said, according to the Washington Times. I know that this term is not used in the same way nowadays, and I meant no disrespect.
Young added that he was hoping to make a point about technology drastically reducing the number of workers in the country, but some Latino leaders in Alaska didnt see it that way.
"It kind of opens your eyes to the way Don Young thinks," said Lupe Marroquin, the president of the Hispanic Affairs Council of Alaska, according to McClatchy news service. "He didn't even pause. It's like that's just what he calls migrant farm workers."
But Congressional Hispanic Caucus Chairman Rubén Hinojosa (D-TX), said ignorance was no excuse for using such hateful words.
"He has served alongside Hispanics in Congress since 1973, so he should know terms like "*******" have never been acceptable, Hinojosa said in a statement. When elected officials use racial slurs, it sets back our nation and sets back legislators who are seriously working toward real, bipartisan solutions.
Boehner was not the only Republican distancing the GOP from Young's comment.
"Migrant workers come to America looking for opportunity and a way to provide a better life for their families. They do not come to this country to hear ethnic slurs and derogatory language from elected officials, said Senate leader John Cornyn (R-TX). The comments used by Rep. Young do nothing to elevate our party, political discourse or the millions who come here looking for economic opportunity."
Like the rest of the United States, Latinos in Alaska are a fast growing segment of the population, almost doubling in size between 2000 and 2010. Census data shows that 6 percent of Alaska's population is now Latino, and 8 percent of Anchorage, the most populous city in the state, is Latino.
Known for his long diatribes and sometimes poor choice of words, Young  a congressman since 1973  got into more trouble on Thursday when he appeared to advise people to drink alone to reduce the risk of domestic violence during a Choose Respect rally in the Alaskan capital of Juneau.
I'm going to suggest for those that may be drinking together - stop it. Young said. If you want to drink by yourself, you may do it. But when you drink together, the possibility of harm becomes greater every day."
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Read more: http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2013/03/29/rep-don-young-in-hot-water-for-*******-comment/#ixzz2dKZHgrzE


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is nothing racist in the words themselves, it will depend on how she is using them. Is she defining them? telling the students how they were used in history? There will be a lot of terms she will use that will upset you. But if it is a part of history, that is what she needs to talk about.


******* is not a part of history, it's the bigotry of the teacher pouring out. It was a derrogatory term used against Mexicans. Should her students now refer to Mexicans as ********?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

My nieces son is a very bright perceptive young man and if he was offended, then there was things going on that shouldn't have been. When she tried to apologize, one young man of mexican descent was very upset. She was not defining them--that was how she was talking. Saying "you all know what these are" does not sound defining to me. Yes it would have been a teaching moment if she had explained how the name "*******" came to be and then said something like that is not a term we will use in this class, but that is not what happened. People can be called immigrants, not aliens, they are not from outer space. I think it was very degrading and the students felt it too.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It still was a term used in history to refer to Mexicans. Now it is considered a racial slur. Why should it NOT be discussed in a History class?


It certainly can be discussed in history class if it is used as a teaching moment. This was not the case.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> ******* is not a part of history, it's the bigotry of the teacher pouring out. It was a disparaging term used against Mexicans. Should her students now refer to Mexicans as ********?


I would imagine this teacher has at least a bachelors degree and is certified to teach so she should know better than to use such terms. This kind of language should no longer be part of the vernacular in this country unless it is part of a history lesson and it is also explained to the students that it is not acceptable to use it. Hopefully, someone will "educate" her so she can properly teach her students. It will be interesting to hear what NJG finds out about her.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

On the anniversary of MLK, Jr's, extraordinary speech, why were only Liberals and Democrats invited to attend and speak today? President Bush who furthered the Civil Rights of all Americans was not invited purposefully, yet President Clinton was.

Dr. King, Jr., was all about equality and treating one another equally and respectfully. Not one Conservative or Republican or Independent Congressman or Senator (including black Congressmen and Senator) or publicly recognized person or celebrity was part of this historic day.

President Obama spoke at first as Dr. King, Jr. did about Civil Rights and then Obama finished by delivering his recent road speech about Obamacare, gun control, immigration, etc..

How does the intentional dismissal of those not in the Democrat Party and speaking of things that have nothing to do with Civil Rights further Dr. King's ideals and message?

Dr. King spoke of what was best in the American dream and the values based in our Judeo-Christian heritage, a hard work ethic, the support and importance of a democracy by our founding fathers in the formulation of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.

Sadly those ideals were missing and suffered under the weight of grievance speeches today. Not a tribute that Dr. King, Jr., would be proud of I'm afraid.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The Selma-to Montgomery March for voting rights ended three weeks, and three events, that represented the the political and emotional peak of the modern civil rights movement. On "Bloody Sunday", March 7, 1965, some 600 civil rights marchers headed east out of Selma on US Route 80. They got only as far as the Edmund pettus Bridge six blocks away, where state and local lawmen attacked them with tear gas and billy clubs and drove them back into Selma.
Two days later on March 9, Martin Luther King, Jr. led a "synbolic" march to the bridge. Then civil rights leaders sought court protection for a third full scale march from Selma to the state capitol in Montgomery.
Federal District Judge Frank M. Johnson, Jr. weighed the right of mobility against the right to march and ruled in favor of the demonstrators. 'The law is clear that the right to petition one's government for the redress of grievances may be exercised by marching, even along public highways."
On Sunday March 21, about 3,200 marchers set out for Montgomery, walking 12 miles a day and sleeping in fields. By the time they reached the capitol on Thursday, March 25, they were 25,000 strong.
Less than five months after the last of the three marches,
President Lyndon Johnson signed the Voting Rights Act of 1965-the best possible redress of grievances.

A little history on the march route:
_In 1996 the Selma-toMontgomery National Historical Trail was created under the National Trails System Act of 1968.
Like other "historic" trails covered in the legislation, the Alabama trail is an original route of national significance in American history. An inter-agency panel of experts recommended, and the Secretary of Transportation designated the trail an "All American Road"- a road that has national significance cannot be replicated, and is a destination unto itself. This designation is the highest tribute a road can receive under the Federal Highway Administration's National Scenic Byways Program, created by the Intermodal Surface Transportation Efficiency Act of 1991._

Source nps.gov


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> On the anniversary of MLK, Jr's, extraordinary speech, why were only Liberals and Democrats invited to attend and speak today? President Bush who furthered the Civil Rights of all Americans was not invited purposefully, yet President Clinton was.
> 
> Dr. King, Jr., was all about equality and treating one another equally and respectfully. Not one Conservative or Republican or Independent Congressman or Senator (including black Congressmen and Senator) or publicly recognized person or celebrity was part of this historic day.
> 
> ...


The Wall Street Journal said that there were GOP leaders invited but that they declined.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EMMETT LOUIS TILL JULY 25,1941 - AUGUST 28,1955

If we Americans are to survive it will have to be because we choose and elect and defend to be first of all Americans; to present to the world one homogeneous and unbroken front, whether of white Americans or black ones or purple or blue or green. Maybe the purpose of this sorry and tragic error committed in my native Mississippi by two white adults on an afflicted ***** child is to prove to us whether or not we deserve to survive. Because if we in America have reached that point in our desperate culture when we must murder children, no matter for what reason or what color, we dont deserve to survive, and probably wont.
William Faulkner, a statement regarding the Emmett Till murder.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Today is the birthday of Emmett Louis Bobo Till. If he had lived his life and not had it brutally taken from him by two racists, he would be sixty-nine years old today.

Carolyn Bryant, the woman whose accusations started it all.

Carolyn Dunham (remarried after divorcing Roy Bryant). She was 70-years-old at the time in this image taken in August, 2004, by a 60 Minutes video crew.

Roy Bryant (left); J.W. Milam (right).

Milam and Bryant, jubilant after their trial acquittal.

In 1955 a Mississippi jury (seated in the first two rows) acquitted the two white men of murdering Emmett Till, 14. (SOURCE)
He was just a little 14-year-old child, who was vacationing in Money. MS with relatives, when he entered the store of a racist, and his life ended that week. With conflicting stories that still ciculate to this day, on August 24, 1955, Emmett went with a cousin and friends to the grocery store of Roy Bryant, where there he encountered the wife of Bryant-Carolyn Bryant.
According to accounts, Emmett was supposed to have said to Bryant: Hey, baby, proceeded to come behind the counter and held her arm,and then was also supposed to have wolf-whistled at her. Emmett and his cousin and another friend who was with them, then left the store.
Emmett considered the matter ended. Little did Emmett know, he crossed an unforgivable boundary in the sadistic, twisted world of Southern white supremacy: a Black malewhether man or boywas never to have any contact with a White female, no matter what shape or form that contact came in.
On August 28, 1955, in the dead of night, a pounding knock came on the door of the home of his great-uncle, Rev. Mose Wright, where Emmett was staying. Arriving at the home in a car, the intruders were Roy Bryant, husband of Carolyn Brayant, his half-brother, J.W. Milam, Bryants wife Carolyn Bryant, and another unidentified person in the vehicle. Bryant asked Emmett Are you the ****** who did the talking?, and Emmett answered, Yeah. They then told Emmett, Youre coming with us.
They demanded that Emmett come with them to answer for his crime of reckless eyeballing and disrespect of a White woman. There was nothing Rev. Wright could do to keep the craven White men from kidnapping his nephew. At about 12:30 a.m. on Sunday, August 28, 1955, they took Emmett and drove him to a weathered shed on a plantation in neighboring Sunflower County, where there they viciously beat, mutilated, tortured, stomped, cut on, and savaged little Emmett.
After gouging out one of Emmetts eyes, and inflicting the most horrible of atrocities upon his young, defenseless, and innocent body, they shot him in the head at point blank range. Afterwards, they with no regard you would give a dog, threw his body into the Tallahatchie River, with a 70-pound cotton gin fan tied around his neck with barbed wire.
His body was discovered and retrieved from the river three days later by two boys fishing. Emmetts mother, Mrs. Mamie Till, had sent her son down to Mississippi to stay with relatives. Never did she expect her only child to meet death at the hands of White men who represented the worst of so-called Southern Chivalry-chivalry that was at its most hypocrisy: the all-out, at any cost to Black human life, protection of White women; but, on the other hand, the abuse, rape, sexual coercion and debasement of Black women and girls, as their Southern White male right.
When preparing her son for his funeral, Mrs. Till decided on an open coffin with a glass lid area that would show to the world the venomous inhuman cruelties the racists committed against her son.

National Archives and Records Administration
A telegram Emmett Tills mother, Mamie Bradley, sent to President Eisenhower that pleads for action. SOURCE
Jet Magazine published photos of Emmets battered and disfigured face for a horrified world to see.
Bryant and Milam were later tried for the crime of torturing and murdering Emmett, but, they were immediately acquitted by an all-male, all-White jury. Months later, they sold their story of how they destroyed little Emmett, to William Bradford Huie, a reporter from Look Magazine, in an article entitled Wolf Whistle. Their monstrous crime shocked and angered America and the world.
Not long after, the Montgomery Bus Boycott of Montgomery, AL, began.
Milam died of cancer at the Veterans Hospital in Jackson, Mississippi on December 31, 1980, at the age of 61 . Bryant also died of cancer at the Baptist Hospital in Jackson on September 1, 1994, at the age of 63.
The murderers never expressed any remorse for Emmetts death and seemed to feel that they had done no wrong. In fact, a few months before he died, Bryant complained bitterly in an interview that he had never made as much money off Emmetts death as he deserved and that it had ruined his life.
Mrs. Till-Mobley, Emmetts mother, outlived the two murderers by living to the age of 81 years, having passed away on January 6, 2003.

Mrs. Till-Mobley. (IMAGE SOURCE)
I wish to acknowledge and honor Emmett and the lasting legacy of his death to free America from its vicious racism and racial hatred.
Mrs. Tills strength and determination to show the world what white supremacy racist hate had done to her son, and Emmetts death, were the catalysts that helped sparked the modern Civil Rights Movement.
Enough was enough, and the suffering that millions of Black Americans endured was brought before the eyes of the world, with the movement that refused to allow any longer the continued destruction of Jane Crow segregation.
********************************************************************************
TIMELINE: THE MURDER OF EMMETT TILL: 1921  1954 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/till/timeline/index.html

TIMELINE: THE MURDER OF TRAYVON MARTIN 1995 - 2012
TRAYVON BENJAMIN MARTIN
FEBRUARY 5,1995 - FEBRUARY 26, 2012

It's still OK to murder a Black child in America.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The Wall Street Journal said that there were GOP leaders invited but that they declined.


Oh, ya, sure. Hundreds of non-Dems or Libs were invited and every single one declined to attend this historic event and refused to clear his schedule in order to participate.

Use your head; it serves a purpose.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, ya, sure. Hundreds of non-Dems or Libs were invited and every single one declined to attend this historic event and refused to clear his schedule in order to participate.
> 
> Use your head; it serves a purpose.


Nobody gave a number, those who were invited declined.
Find your head.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, ya, sure. Hundreds of non-Dems or Libs were invited and every single one declined to attend this historic event and refused to clear his schedule in order to participate.
> 
> Use your head; it serves a purpose.


This is where I read it. Cheeky has started a very nice topic, and until you came on the scene, there was no animosity. It's too bad there can't be civility on this thread. Why don't you take a chance and try a different approach?

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/28/at-50th-anniversary-of-march-no-gop-speakers/


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

She knows no other way, al. Just ignore it and we'll keep on with our discussions.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, ya, sure. Hundreds of non-Dems or Libs were invited and every single one declined to attend this historic event and refused to clear his schedule in order to participate.
> 
> Use your head; it serves a purpose.


Not a single Republican elected official  not one  participated in the 50th Anniversary of the March on Washington, despite invitations from event organizers, reports the Washington Post.

Republicans came up with a laundry list of excuses, from ill health to scheduling conflicts, to justify their absence, but former Republican Chair Michael Steele said that the conservative response is a typical  and damaging  one:

Its part of a continuing narrative that the party finds itself in with these big deals for minority communities around the country and how they perceive our response to them, he said.

Steele was not invited to speak because he isnt a current party or elected official. But if I were the current chairman and hadnt been invited, thatd be a different story, he said. If I hadnt been invited, I would have forced myself on them.

Read more from the Washington Post:

We had a very concerted effort, because this is not a political moment. This was about us coming together as a community, so we wanted to be sure that we had all political representations, Daughtry said. We attempted very vigorously to have someone from the GOP participate and unfortunately they were unable to find someone who was able to participate.

House Speaker John A. Boehner (Ohio), the highest-ranking Republican in Washington, was invited to attend Wednesdays gathering but declined because of a scheduling conflict, aides said.

Boehner was in Jackson Hole, Wyo., and had no public schedule Wednesday but has been headlining dozens of GOP fundraisers nationwide this month. Aides noted that he led an official congressional commemoration of Kings I Have a Dream speech on July 31 at the U.S. Capitol that other top congressional leaders attended.

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.) received an invitation to attend 12 days ago, which was too late to change scheduled political appearances Wednesday in North Dakota and Ohio, aides said.

Senator Tim Scott (R-SC), currently the only Black senator serving in the United States government, was not invited to speak, but his spokesperson issued the following statement minimizing any political controversy that fact could potentially cause:

Senator Scott was not invited to speak at the event, said Greg Blair in a statement to the Washington Examiner. The senator believes today is a day to remember the extraordinary accomplishments and sacrifices of Dr. King, Congressman John Lewis, and an entire generation of black leaders. Todays anniversary should simply serve as an opportunity to reflect upon how their actions moved our country forward in a remarkable way.

Scott was appointed by South Carolina governor Nikki Haley earlier this year after former Sen. Jim DeMint retired.

Though the GOP couldnt find time to attend the 50th Anniversary of the March on Washington, the Republican National Committee did manage to organize a separate event at the Capitol Hill Club. U.S. Rep. Allen West (R-Fla) and T.W. Shannon, speaker of the Oklahoma House of Representatives were in attendance, as were other high ranking conservative officials.

Though the Republicans engaged in clear passive-aggressive behavior in declining to attend the commemoration, there was at least one who responded with dignity and class.

*Former President George W. Bush, who was invited but couldnt attend because he is recovering from heart surgery, issued the following statement:*

Laura and I are proud to join our fellow Americans in commemorating the 50th Anniversary of the March on Washington and Martin Luther King, Jr.s I Have A Dream speech.

When Reverend King came to Washington, D.C., in the summer of 1963, his purpose was to hold our Nation to the standards spelled out in the Declaration of Independence. He called all of us to live up to that documents fundamental promise and the underpinning of our founding  that all of us are created equal and endowed by our Creator with certain unalienable rights. From the steps of the Lincoln Memorial, with thousands gathered around him, Dr. King looked out over the American capital and uttered simple, powerful words that changed the hearts of millions. The dream he had spread a message of hope, justice, and brotherhood that took hold in the hearts of men and women around the world.

Our country has come a long way since that bright afternoon 50 years ago; yet our journey to justice is not complete. Just to the East of the Lincoln Memorial, where President Obama will speak on Wednesday, stands the Martin Luther King, Jr. Memorial. There on the National Mall our President, whose story reflects the promise of America, will help us honor the man who inspired millions to redeem that promise.

Dr. King was on this Earth just 39 years, but the ideals that guided his life of conscience and purpose are eternal. Honoring him requires the commitment of every one of us. Theres still a need for every American to help hasten the day when Dr. Kings vision is made real in every community  when what truly matters is not the color of a persons skin, but the content of their character.

Laura and I thank the King family and all who work to carry on the legacy of a great man and the promise of a great Nation. May we continue to march toward the day when the dignity and humanity of every person is respected. And may God continue to bless America.

His brother, former Florida Governor Jeb Bush, declined his invitation.

Martin Luther King III voiced his disappointment in the partisanship tone of the commemorative march:

It would have been great to see, King said, that around the banner of Martin Luther King everyone could come together, because Dad represented the interest of all who were mistreated.

Source: Washington Post


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The Black National Anthem. Wow, what a beautiful song.
I am posting this for Cheeky.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks, Patty. I will sprinkle some holy water on this thread and hopefully it will keep the forces of evil away from this site. Thanks, Al and NJG, Susan and GW and all the rest who came here and posted with peace in their heart and sincerity. Your God knows who you are and the condition of your spirit and that is what is important and all that matters.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I was inspired by Dr King,even before the March,i brought my adult children to know what was going on in the USA and all about the different things Dr King and his brave followers did to finaly get the rights for their people.


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## carrad47 (Nov 29, 2012)

I clearly remember Dr. King's speech and the assassinations that happened in that decade. they were great men and I wonder where the country would have been now if they had lived. But. Go has a plan we can't always see. Politically, I tend to be more liberal than anything else, but I really vote my conscience and not any particular party line.


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## Connor's Oba (Jan 30, 2012)

My dream is that some day, we each can be tolerant of everyone as we would want them to be tolerant of us when we do not agree on something. Just because it's not my way does not make it wrong for someone else. Be loving, be helpful, be kind, be at peace with yourself and all that is around you.


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## Beve (May 5, 2012)

As the child of a military family we moved a lot. My family was very loving of all people and once, while traveling in a deep southern state in the US, I remember seeing a "whites only" sign. My family was shocked and disgusted with a degree of sorrow for those who allowed their prejudice to keep them from experiencing the joy we shared with so many people of different color and origin. As a nation still have a long way to go. May God help us learn that all people deserve love, respect and honor.


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## Craftsmith (Nov 3, 2011)

I was 13 in 1963 and the march didn't really impinge on my life at the time. Since then I have been involved (and still am) in many liberal-viewed organisations. It saddens me that many people still have closed minds and hearts. I was brought up to help my fellow inhabitants of our beautiful planet whenever I could and do not regret that. Hopefully, I managed to instill some of this in my children and now their children. Love and Peace from the other side of 'the pond'.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> EMMETT LOUIS TILL JULY 25,1941 - AUGUST 28,1955
> 
> If we Americans are to survive it will have to be because we choose and elect and defend to be first of all Americans; to present to the world one homogeneous and unbroken front, whether of white Americans or black ones or purple or blue or green. Maybe the purpose of this sorry and tragic error committed in my native Mississippi by two white adults on an afflicted ***** child is to prove to us whether or not we deserve to survive. Because if we in America have reached that point in our desperate culture when we must murder children, no matter for what reason or what color, we dont deserve to survive, and probably wont.


I saw a documentary about this--one point that sticks in my mind is an interview given by one of the murderers. According to him, the white perpetrators initially didn't intend to kill Till--they thought that giving him a good scare would be enough to get the message of white supremacy across. But after sticking him in the back of their car they turned to glare at him from the front seat and saw not a trace of fear in him eyes...and that was enough. In their minds this innocent young man and his absence of terror posed a grave threat to their very foundations of traditional white Southern society. The ringleader took a second to recover his breath, then told Til, "Boy, you aren't going to live to see the sun rise."

I don't believe (and never will) in the death penalty--there's always a hope that the guilty will come to see the error of their ways. I don't think any of the murderers are still alive, but if so it seems that this might have been the case for at least some of these men. Living with such an act on one's conscience would seem to be the ultimate punishment--asking the state to take one's life in atonement would be the easy way out, in my opinion.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Patty. I will sprinkle some holy water on this thread and hopefully it will keep the forces of evil away from this site. Thanks, Al and NJG, Susan and GW and all the rest who came here and posted with peace in their heart and sincerity. Your God knows who you are and the condition of your spirit and that is what is important and all that matters.


Absolutely, Cheeky--let's fight to keep the tone positive.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This is where I read it. Cheeky has started a very nice topic, and until you came on the scene, there was no animosity. It's too bad there can't be civility on this thread. Why don't you take a chance and try a different approach?


The OP, herself, is known on KP as a hateful person to those who are non-Liberal in their thinking. If you want to see how she treats others, read her back posts. The OP posted in her opening post than edited it out what this thread was to represent in terms of the American Dream and no negativity.

The 2nd poster pointed out a grave mistake made by the OP. Then another asked what that edited post (.) meant and was lied to. That is typical for Cheeky Blighter. She did not get through one post following her own ideals in this new thread.

Then let's discuss the negativity and slams against those in Congress on page 3, the references to Emmett Till which has NOTHING to do with and no correlation to the ideals set forth by Martin Luther King, Jr.

We all read the negative discussion of the term from history, ********, and, of course, the line that it is 'still OK to kill black children in America" (posted by Cheeky) along with the reference to Trayvon Martin. The Trayvon Martin case was tried in court and justice prevailed. Those are supposed to be overlooked and considered positive statements? That is NOT what America is or has been. This thread is being used to promote racism and the grievances of a few libs and an ugly OP.

Everyone of these posts and discussions are completely and absolutely against MLK, Jr.'s dream and beliefs.

These posts are also the very reason the Liberals and Progs in this thread and others on KP continue to keep racism alive and well in the USA.

Nothing I posted was negative. I believe in MLK Jr.s' dream as do the majority of Americans and we prove it by how we live our lives. Most else posted by a Liberal is all about race baiting and killing MLK's dream.

MLK talked about the importance of God, Judeo-Christian faith, hard work and personal responsibility to lead our Nation away from segregation and equal rights for all.

Our Nation has had a black (he chooses to refer to himself that way) for the past five years and a black Attorney General longer than that as well as a black Supreme Court Justice; three of the top positions of power in our Nation. Men and women of color are serving in positions of power all over the country with pride and dignity. The color of a person's skin is of no concern except to some Libs and Progs who notice the color of a person's skin; the very definition of a Racist.

In this thread, all the Libs want to discuss are the grievances of who is racist in this country and how skin color still matters to them rather than the furtherance of equality that was begun by Abraham Lincoln, a Republican.

Let's get back to Martin Luther King's American Dream and ideals and beliefs and solving the problems facing black communities today. Those problems are not of those from a different color 'to' the blacks, but from those of color onto themselves. Solve those problems and further the dream for people of color rather than allowing them to be enslaved and burdened by them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The OP, herself, is known on KP as a hateful person to those who are non-Liberal in their thinking. If you want to see how she treats others, read her back posts. The OP posted in her opening post than edited it out what this thread was to represent in terms of the American Dream and no negativity.
> 
> The 2nd poster pointed out a grave mistake made by the OP. Then another asked what that edited post (.) meant and was lied to. That is typical for Cheeky Blighter. She did not get through one post following her own ideals in this new thread.


For the love of God, KPG, can you please put down the battle club? Enough is enough--let's leave all the quarreling and acrimony behind in the other threads.


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## catrocky (Apr 30, 2012)

Thank you for starting this thread. Yesterday afternoon I was in the car pool line picking up my grandchildren from school. You have to arrive early if you don't want to wait for a long time to get them. 

I was able to listen to all of President Obama's speech. 

I was watching our American Flag wave in the breeze and it made me so proud. The kids were leaving the school and they are all sizes, shapes and colors. They all seemed to get along just fine. If only the adults could behave the same way. God Bless America and God Bless President Obama.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> For the love of God, KPG, can you please put down the battle club? Enough is enough--let's leave all the quarreling and acrimony behind in the other threads.


Most of America and I have no battle clubs. Lay yours down and let's discuss the problems and try to come up with solutions for the concerns facing the black and minority communities today.

I'm ready are you? Please take the lead, and I'll follow.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Most of America and I have no battle clubs. Lay yours down and let's discuss the problems and try to come up with solutions for the concerns facing the black and minority communities today.
> 
> I'm ready are you? Please take the lead, and I'll follow.


I will. I welcome the opportunity.

How about this: no one can argue that there haven't been many changes for the better since MLK's day. The fact that an African-American man can be elected President shows that great strides have been made. Still, many African-American live in dire straits--I won't bother to quote the figures for poverty, incarceration, and drop-outism (not the proper term, but you know what I mean), but they're appalling. 
The question is why. We can't point the finger of blame at blatant bigoted laws and institutions--those "no ********" signs are obviously a thing of the past. The answer seems more elusive, much harder to figure out...any ideas?


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What does the dot mean?


its a "tag in" so she can follow the thread!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The Wall Street Journal said that there were GOP leaders invited but that they declined.


Name one non Democrat you saw there. There were none as NONE were invited.
====================

_THE LEFT'S HIJACKING OF DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING'S DREAM_

by KEVIN L. MARTIN 28 Aug 2013

The left has hijacked the dream of Dr. Martin Luther King and twisted it into a perverted calling card of big-government activism, political grandstanding, and ideological segregation.

For the last few days, Americans nationwide have been celebrating the 50th-year anniversary of Dr. Kings March on Washington, but if you looked at the national celebration of the march, you would have seen a long conga line of left-wing politicians and activists dishonoring the memory of Dr. King.

*Nowhere among the speakers was one invited black Republican or conservative,* but figures like Bill Rwandan genocide" Clinton, Jesse Hymietown Jackson, and Al I will smear anyone who does not believe Tawana Brawley Sharpton were at the forefront of speakers, *but Senator Tim Scott (R-SC) and Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas were somehow left off the invite list.*

This shouldn't shock thinking Americans, as we are talking about the Democrat Party, which gave the nation slavery, the Ku Klux Klan, segregation, and Jim Crow.

Thus, do you think it is beneath the party officials and activists to ignore black American success stories at the celebration simply because of their politics?

While President Obama stood before the crowd giving a well-crafted speech, the truth of the matter is that he spent a majority of his time talking about the past and not about the presentor even the future, as many of the same blacks who voted for him in 2008 and 2012 have become disillusioned with his brand of hope and change. As a recent Pew poll showed, Only 26% of those blacks surveyed said they were better off today than they were 5 years ago.

The reason why neither Sen. Scott nor Justice Thomas was not invited is quite simple; they are the embodiment of Dr. Kings Dream. Sen. Scott was elected to Congress on the strength of the Tea Party and then appointed to the open seat of former Senator Jim DeMint by South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley at the behest of the Tea Party. It would have been hypocritical, in their eyes, to have a Tea Party Senator speak before a black crowd after spending more than two years smearing the Tea Party as racist bigots.

Then, of course, there is Justice Thomas, who the left spent millions of dollars fighting against his confirmation and lost in 1991. No need to have him speak, as the lost battle must continue.

The truth of the matter is that no conservatives of color or even Republicans were invited to speak, since this would have flown in the face of the victimization and big-government activism of the march. 

They could not have speakers there who may cause a revolt on the political plantation, but in the end, thinking Americans have seen the new segregation of the 21st century. *It is not about skin color but about political ideologyin which only liberal Democrats are welcome to hijack the dream of inclusion and turn it into a perverted nightmare.*


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Name one non Democrat you saw there. There were none as NONE were invited.


*sigh* I took your offer to discuss the situation in a constructive manner in good faith, KPG. Can we please leave the Democrate/Republican Conservative/Liberal labels out of it?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, thanks for starting this topic, and the beautiful hymn. I know those of us who find what certain people here post are capable of completely ignoring them.

I remember MLK's speech, did volunteer work at CORE and SNCC until white people were asked to leave so those organizations could become black organizations fighting for their fellows. It was a pretty good idea and I think it strenghed the Civil Rights Movement.

Unfortunately, I remember the assasinations of JFK, MLK, Emmett Till. James Meredith, Medgar Evers, Goodman, Schwerner, Cheney, Malcom X, RFK, and the fact that lynching remained alive and well for a long, long time. It's been awhile since it was common, but just a few years ago a black man was dragged to death in Texas. If you want to read about one of the people who was greatly responsible for fighting lynching, read about Ida B. Wells. She was one tough lady.

We can't stop fighting the good fight yet, and now it includes other issues and actions. The teacher who used the word "*******" was, indeed, being racist IF she didn't also put that word into historical perspective. If she didn't, she needs to be seriously reprimanded and ordered to teach what she left out, or be fired if she isn't willing to correct herself. Our youing people don't need any encouragement to continue racist attitudes. At least she didn't call them "*******". 

I'm sitting here in Yreka, CA where my mother's side of the family spent many summers, and looking forward to heading to Arcata in a few days, then home again for a couple of days and then on to the part of my vacation that puts me on a bunch of trains to a bunch of different places.

I've read the posts on this topic with great pleasure and am keeping my fingers crossed that your idea will succeed far beyond what you might have originally intended.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ronie said:
 

> its a "tag in" so she can follow the thread!!


No, that is not the case. Thankfully, annjaneice posted a suggestion to the OP about removing a download of an inappropriate file that the OP attached to her opening post.

After the warning, the OP removed the downloaded file and annjaneice edited her post about same. Cheeky Blighter also edited her original post.

I, like many, downloaded the file in curiosity. Hopefully Cheeky has since changed passwords and protected her information as she needs to.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

books said:


> I am envious of all of you, I'm too young to have seen that speech so for me it is something to be studied in history books. But I agree, we're moving in a poaitive direction, I was thrilled when Obama was elected twice. I'm so sick of this country being ruled by old, rich, white men. Time for diversity- looking forward to the time when gender, and sexual orientation won't matter as well.


You must be my long lost twin!!


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## bcdado (May 27, 2013)

I'm with you. Unfortunately I find we are few and far between!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh* I took your offer to discuss the situation in a constructive manner in good faith, KPG. Can we please leave the Democrate/Republican Conservative/Liberal labels out of it?


I responded to another poster. I'm still waiting for you to begin a discussion on solutions as I suggested.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Why won't you keep argumentative comments in Smoking & Obamacare and let this one be peaceful.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The OP, herself, is known on KP as a hateful person to those who are non-Liberal in their thinking. If you want to see how she treats others, read her back posts. The OP posted in her opening post than edited it out what this thread was to represent in terms of the American Dream and no negativity.
> 
> The 2nd poster pointed out a grave mistake made by the OP. Then another asked what that edited post (.) meant and was lied to. That is typical for Cheeky Blighter. She did not get through one post following her own ideals in this new thread.
> 
> ...


Ignore.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ronie said:


> its a "tag in" so she can follow the thread!!


Oh, thanks for the info.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Didn't take long, did it?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hi, Cheeky. Thanks for starting such an inspiring thread!
> The Civil Rights Era was slightly before my time, but wow I still remember my mother's stories about how people fought back peacefully against segregation. My favorite was the how the "whites only" supermarkets were dealt with.
> 
> *My parents* and others would fill shopping carts to the brim, then abandon them in the aisles. Store managers were fit to be tied as of course every item had to be returned to the shelves, and soon they were dealing with hundreds of such carts per day. They got the message very quickly!


Susanmos2000 - Could you please reconcile this post above with one you posted on Jun 14th before we discuss the civil rights movement, problems and solutions?

Here are your words in another thread:



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for sharing, Dame.
> I grew up in California and, as I mentioned before, both my grandmother and *my father were anti-African-American, anti-Semitic, anti-Asian, pretty much against anyone who wasn't Christian and didn't have white skin.*
> 
> The funny thing is that none of that rubbed off on us kids. My sister's first serious boyfriend was Korean, and my brother married a woman from Burma.
> ...


 ============
So I understand, were your parents against blacks and minorities or not? You've stated that your Dad was both "for" and "against" any black or non Christian. Which story shall I believe of them and how I can believe what you post and say?

I'd like to be clear and fair in my thoughts and wonder how you believe as you've stated two sides to the same story.

Thank you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

bumping the thread up to the top so that people see it. 


GWPlver said:


> What does the dot mean?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

What a great idea! I am in the process of getting involved again with an organization known as Jobs with Justice, naturally these days they are working on living wage issues. The beauty of that approach to me is that it negates that "race card" argument. 
Face it, poverty for the majority is likely to create a situation where there is more resentment, so this will help all the way around. 
This is a long way of saying that I think your parents' actions can be modified to work on this campaign, so thanks so much for raising that.
I, too, am anticipating some friendly and gentle interaction.



susanmos2000 said:


> Hi, Cheeky. Thanks for starting such an inspiring thread!
> The Civil Rights Era was slightly before my time, but wow I still remember my mother's stories about how people fought back peacefully against segregation. My favorite was the how the "whites only" supermarkets were dealt with. My parents and others would fill shopping carts to the brim, then abandon them in the aisles. Store managers were fit to be tied as of course every item had to be returned to the shelves, and soon they were dealing with hundreds of such carts per day. They got the message very quickly!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

What a great idea! I am in the process of getting involved again with an organization known as Jobs with Justice, naturally these days they are working on living wage issues. The beauty of that approach to me is that it negates that "race card" argument. 
Face it, poverty for the majority is likely to create a situation where there is more resentment, so this will help all the way around. 
This is a long way of saying that I think your parents' actions can be modified to work on this campaign, so thanks so much for raising that.
I, too, am anticipating some friendly and gentle interaction.



susanmos2000 said:


> Hi, Cheeky. Thanks for starting such an inspiring thread!
> The Civil Rights Era was slightly before my time, but wow I still remember my mother's stories about how people fought back peacefully against segregation. My favorite was the how the "whites only" supermarkets were dealt with. My parents and others would fill shopping carts to the brim, then abandon them in the aisles. Store managers were fit to be tied as of course every item had to be returned to the shelves, and soon they were dealing with hundreds of such carts per day. They got the message very quickly!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Since the teacher had already used several terms there was really no legitimate reason to say *******. 
You might be correct if she has also said mics, greasers, goombahs, polacks, but it doesn't seem that she did. There goes your support for that position, I do appreciate, however, that you said it so nicely.



joeysomma said:


> "She listed different types of people, including citizens, non citizens, voters, registered voters, undocumented aliens, aliens, ********"
> 
> I see nothing racist here, it is a list of different types of people. I'm sure the capital letters were by NJG. Why are you so quick to call someone a racist with the use of one or two words, when you do not know the context of what was said?
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Since we are talking history. One history lesson is that shunning works.



alcameron said:


> This is where I read it. Cheeky has started a very nice topic, and until you came on the scene, there was no animosity. It's too bad there can't be civility on this thread. Why don't you take a chance and try a different approach?
> 
> http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/08/28/at-50th-anniversary-of-march-no-gop-speakers/


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Thank you.
Looking forward to some intelligent conversation.
The Rev. King's speech was ground breaking.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Since we are talking history. One history lesson is that shunning works.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

quote: I'm sure the capital letters were by NJG. 

No the capital letters and the quotation marks around seniors was the way the teacher wrote it on the board and the way it was copied by the student.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No, that is not the case. Thankfully, annjaneice posted a suggestion to the OP about removing a download of an inappropriate file that the OP attached to her opening post.
> 
> After the warning, the OP removed the downloaded file and annjaneice edited her post about same. Cheeky Blighter also edited her original post.
> 
> I, like many, downloaded the file in curiosity. Hopefully Cheeky has since changed passwords and protected her information as she needs to.


knitpresentgifts
please, stay away, you have been nothing but trouble where-ever you made an appearence.
Leave us in Peace.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Quote: President Bush who furthered the Civil Rights of all Americans was not invited purposefully, yet President Clinton was.

Don't get your undies in a bunch KPG. Both Bush I and II were invited, but both declined do to health reasons. John Boehner and Eric Cantor were both invited and declined.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

50 years with some progress but much work to be done.

I well remember the signs: "No blacks" - "No Jews", "Whites Only". Thank goodness such open Racism has disappeared.
At least I can be seen with my black Friends anywhere and not get spit at.


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## mmg (May 17, 2011)

I was fortunate enough to grow up in a city where the neighborhoods and schools were filled with all different cultures and I have such a blend of great friends that I couldn't imagine it any other way. I wasn't even a thought when MLK gave the speech, but I think America still has a long way to go! When I taught pre-school I talked alot about MLK and that if it weren't for him we wouldn't be able to have the friends we do.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request.


As a youth of that time (one of my teachers was a Freedom Rider. She taught in MT where now a judge in the largest city in the state gave a convicted rapist 30 days in prison) I can only say how my already physically damaged heart has sunken to an all time low. My only wish would be that people would realize the March was for Jobs since nothing at that point was working and the government, although quote was "liberal" at the time, the desire to have civil rights was very dim (are there correlations to today?) so another plan was formulated--desperate times lead to desperate measures even when they are non-violent. Even the promotion to buy "Made in America" has been tainted by scams where it means the label was and has nothing to do with the product. I was witness to the demise of manufacturing to get rid of the unions that had suffered for all the working class and now see the statistics, that verify what I knew all along, that workers are producing more and more for less and less. The turn of the twenty first century showed how low some could stoop for their greedy purposes with the Industrial Age. Then the chaos of wars to confuse the masses into not realizing their actual plight. Then globalization (which has been going on longer than people knew) computerization and now robotics and not far off the creation of sub level working "animatronics" or whatever term they use to make workers that can do the will of their master just so they can receive the energy to keep them from being deleted (R2D2?). Knowledge has now become the sin of the world instead of being used for positives and does that surprise anyone where now all we need is another app to complete our every demand.

I'm afraid my marching, protesting, struggling was all in vain so I leave you all without creating any righteous ripples in the force--I'm afraid I need someone to push my weary physical being up to the steps of righteousness, that have no wheel chair access due to budget constraints, nor the strength or stamina to pull myself up, but I am willing to lay down and let those who can get up there for mankind.

I too had a dream but I'm awake with the reality of depravity picking at my carcass. God Bless Everyone!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am quite sure that you are correct, joeysomma. The correct term would probably be bigot as until recently someone had to have power in order to be a racist. That seems to be changing, however. Part of English being a living language, I suppose.



joeysomma said:


> I'm glad. To many on KP are way to quick to call someone racist. I'm sure if they would take some time to do research and ask more questions, they will find they are not racist.
> As a matter-of-fact. when NJG wrote the story, she was the third person saying it, I wonder what details were lost in the telling.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

catrocky said:


> Thank you for starting this thread. Yesterday afternoon I was in the car pool line picking up my grandchildren from school. You have to arrive early if you don't want to wait for a long time to get them.
> 
> I was able to listen to all of President Obama's speech.
> 
> I was watching our American Flag wave in the breeze and it made me so proud. The kids were leaving the school and they are all sizes, shapes and colors. They all seemed to get along just fine. If only the adults could behave the same way. God Bless America and God Bless President Obama.


I think our future looks bright because of the children. They do not care about the color of another persons skin or sexual orientation. They are way more accepting than the older generation. May God bless them.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Fabulous day. The President was inspiring.

I watched the 1963 March on TV from a little court apartment we had at the time in Hollywood. Our daughter was not even born yet. 

What a time it was. Hard to get ones head around 50 years and so much water under the bridge. Wow

Great to have some liberals to exchange with. Peace to all.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG said:


> President Bush who furthered the Civil Rights of all Americans was not invited purposefully, yet President Clinton was.
> 
> Don't get your undies in a bunch KPG. Both Bush I and II were invited, but both declined do to health reasons. John Boehner and Eric Cantor were both invited and declined.


You'll believe as you wish. I go with the truth.

The Nation's ONLY black senator was not invited because he is not a Democrat.

Black Congressmen were also not invited to speak nor folks like Allen West, Thomas Sowell or Dr. Ben Carson. The reason? They are all Conservatives or Republicans.

Hmmmm, how does segregation and ignoring all sides of our Nation's leaders and public figures and allowing no one but a Democrat to participate speak for MLK Jr.'s legacy?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Thank you.
> Looking forward to some intelligent conversation.


Me too - why don't you begin? I'm listening.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think we are all being stupid here. Why would anyone call the teacher of a niece's son living in Ohio a racist?
> 
> This is nothing but Gossip, How is any of this advancing the dream of MLK?


Speak for yourself on the stupid part. I was relaying the story of what is going on in our society today. It isn't just in our schools, it is everywhere. You did not have to comment at all if you thought it was stupid. Why wasn't this teacher mindful of the children of Mexican descent that were in her classroom? Do we want our public school teachers using words like this to describe people? I know there are also conserative parents that get upset if the teacher offers more liberal views in the classroom so I realize the teacher has a fine line to walk. I just think the name calling is not right unless there was a learning discussion to go with it and there wasn't in this case.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Me too - why don't you begin? I'm listening.


Well that will be a first!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You'll
> The Nation's ONLY black senator was not invited because he is not a Democrat.


You know this for a fact?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think our future looks bright because of the children. They do not care about the color of another persons skin or sexual orientation. They are way more accepting than the older generation. May God bless them.


I agree. With them, there is hope.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> please, stay away, you have been nothing but trouble where-ever you made an appearence.
> Leave us in Peace.


Reminds of a borderline personality disorder - they love to create chaos and then jump back and disavow doing so.


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## mmg (May 17, 2011)

Ok, calm down folks!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Reminds of a borderline personality disorder - they love to create chaos and then jump back and disavow doing so.


"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear." Martin Luther King, Jr.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ============
> So I understand, were your parents against blacks and minorities or not? You've stated that your Dad was both "for" and "against" any black or non Christian. Which story shall I believe of them and how I can believe what you post and say?
> 
> I'd like to be clear and fair in my thoughts and wonder how you believe as you've stated two sides to the same story.
> ...


Correction noted, KPG--I should have said "parent"--singular--as my mother was very active in the anti-segregation and anti-war movement and he merely stood on the sidelines, mouth agape. He learned racism on his mother's knee but, to his credit, never tried to interfere with her activities and sometimes even accompanied her (under protest) to demonstrations and such.
My mother hailed from a conservative Midwestern family, and doubtless her and my father's views were similar when they married. Why she was able to shake off the bigotry she learned as a child and he was not, I don't know.
My father passed away just before the fall of the Iron Curtain, before his second son married a woman of Asian descent, and of course long before Obama was elected President. What he'd make of the world today I have no idea--I'd like to think he would have softened over time, but there's no way to be sure.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

mmg said:


> Ok, calm down folks!


This is the MO of KPG formerly known as Cherf. It will go to any political thread and try to hijack it. Last fall is proof of it. I am asking everyone to ignore and not respond to it and keep up on the god discussions we are having. 
Thanks,
Patty


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is the MO of KPG formerly known as Cherf. It will go to any political thread and try to hijack it. Last fall is proof of it. I am asking everyone to ignore and not respond to it and keep up on the god discussions we are having.
> Thanks,
> Patty


To whom it may concern:

I joined KP in May of 2013. BrattyPatty has attacked me at every turn since I began posting. She also continually attempts to define me, my character and tells me I'm a variety of people which I'm not. I do not wish to discuss our differences here, but will not allow her to defame me and my name _ever._

I remain happy to discuss with anyone who treats others and me with respect and dignity.

I'm eager and hopeful to engage in an intelligent discussion on the concerns and possible solutions about race in the USA on this thread. I also love to discuss God although BrattyPatty has repeatedly slammed those and me who do so in other threads, yet she encouraged that discussion in her post immediately above.

From the words of MLK, Jr.; "I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You do have to wonder how that works, eh?
Is the bigotry just a habit? Was he pleasing his mother? Someone noted that they were raised in a densely populated area with many ethnic components and believe that may have influenced their accepting outlook for all. I have always figured that since the place I grew up in was pretty much devoid of any multiculturalism that I never heard any nasty things about other groups and so never learned those hateful and hurtful attitudes. 
The worst I ever heard as a child was calling the parochial school kids "French Fries" since the staff was from Notre Dame, I guess. <shrug>



susanmos2000 said:


> Correction noted, KPG--I should have said "parent"--singular--as my mother was very active in the anti-segregation and anti-war movement and he merely stood on the sidelines, mouth agape. He learned racism on his mother's knee but, to his credit, never tried to interfere with her activities and sometimes even accompanied her (under protest) to demonstrations and such.
> My mother hailed from a conservative Midwestern family, and doubtless her and my father's views were similar when they married. Why she was able to shake off the bigotry she learned as a child and he was not, I don't know.
> My father passed away just before the fall of the Iron Curtain, before his second son married a woman of Asian descent, and of course long before Obama was elected President. What he'd make of the world today I have no idea--I'd like to think he would have softened over time, but there's no way to be sure.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Correction noted, KPG


Thanks for the explanation and correction. Can I assume you are none of those things you described your Dad to be? I believe as much but would like to hear your comments, as our discussion will be between us.

You stated you didn't learn your beliefs on race from them (which? - either?), but, again, you presented two stories.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The public schools, especially colleges, are very liberal. What would have happened if it was a Chemistry class, and the teacher said that Robert Boyle believed that Science proved the Bible was true?


Good question. I know students who have received failing grades because they did not conform or agree with their liberal professor.

I experienced the same prejudice when I studied Biology under one of my college professors. I was given the grade I earned, but many of the students protested to what was being taught - only Evolution for the creation of man.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is the MO of KPG formerly known as Cherf. It will go to any political thread and try to hijack it. Last fall is proof of it. I am asking everyone to ignore and not respond to it and keep up on the god discussions we are having.
> Thanks,
> Patty


I agree, Patty. Thanks for the reminder.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The public schools, especially colleges, are very liberal. What would have happened if it was a Chemistry class, and the teacher said that Robert Boyle believed that Science proved the Bible was true?


I would think that a vigorous discussion would ensue. Some would believe it, some would not as they do today. But I think it would be interesting to hear the pros/cons.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> No, that is not the case. Thankfully, annjaneice posted a suggestion to the OP about removing a download of an inappropriate file that the OP attached to her opening post.
> 
> After the warning, the OP removed the downloaded file and annjaneice edited her post about same. Cheeky Blighter also edited her original post.
> 
> I, like many, downloaded the file in curiosity. Hopefully Cheeky has since changed passwords and protected her information as she needs to.


And would you like to tell all what the inappropriate file was that was posted? I will save you the trouble. It was a portion of a bank account statement and obviously not intended for posting anywhere. Annjaneice was kind enough to make me aware of my error and I deleted it. I happened to have that file saved above the file I meant to download. I have since notified my bank and they and my family will be watching for any unusual entries. If you would like to make a large deposit please feel free. I don't know how on God's green earth this reflects badly on me or anyone else unless they plan to do me and my family some harm. Do you intend to harm me KPG? 
If you continue to post on this please do so in the spirit of peace and goodwill towards everyone or do not post here at all. There are plenty of political threads on KP that you frequent that are open to your derogatory comments. All you have done to this point is put people down and people who truly believe in peace do not do that. Others who have come out here and shared their feelings about Dr. King and the Civil Right's movement have done so in the spirit of what Dr. King preached and so far you are the only one who has not. All your posts out here clearly show you only want to tear down something that is good with your hate. We can all turn over a new leaf, KPG. I have. When you are ready to truly take a look at the harm and ugliness that you are bringing to this thread I will welcome you back with open arms and until you do I ask you in God's name to please stay away from this thread and let the rest of us enjoy it.

"Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false and the false with the true."
Martin Luther King Jr.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> You do have to wonder how that works, eh?
> Is the bigotry just a habit? Was he pleasing his mother? Someone noted that they were raised in a densely populated area with many ethnic components and believe that may have influenced their accepting outlook for all. I have always figured that since the place I grew up in was pretty much devoid of any multiculturalism that I never heard any nasty things about other groups and so never learned those hateful and hurtful attitudes.
> The worst I ever heard as a child was calling the parochial school kids "French Fries" since the staff was from Notre Dame, I guess. <shrug>


My father's parents were immigrants and the area they eventually settled was heavy into anti-Semitism. I don't know the particulars about my father's childhood, but he was prejudiced against the Jewish population. I didn't know any Jewish children so this didn't impact me but years later, after meeting some, I remember not understanding his belief system. My situation could have turned out differently - I could have carried on that prejudice.

While we all carry beliefs/thoughts, etc., from our upbringing, we do have the capability to challenge our belief systems. We can then choose to change them or keep them.


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## mmg (May 17, 2011)

Unless you are Native American, we all come from immigrants.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

OK, I have to ask which of the sponsors of the event did you contact to ask why that senator didn't go?



knitpresentgifts said:


> You'll believe as you wish. I go with the truth.
> 
> The Nation's ONLY black senator was not invited because he is not a Democrat.
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Most likely everyone in the class would laugh because there is no proof that anything in the Bible is true. The Bible is not meant to be accepted literally any more than "Little Red Riding Hood" is about a wolf eating a grandmother. 
Parables are used to educate just like fairy tales and fables.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Good question. I know students who have received failing grades because they did not conform or agree with their liberal professor.
> 
> I experienced the same prejudice when I studied Biology under one of my college professors. I was given the grade I earned, but many of the students protested to what was being taught - only Evolution for the creation of man.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I have read all that is posted on this site,about oh this and oh that.

I myself do not want to hear a bunch of White women telling me what they think or what they have to say about the black race.

I want all the KP ladies and man of the black race tell me not Liberal progressive telling their stories. 

Please women and men of the black race tell me about what your thought of Dr. King. Has it help you? What is the good and the bad of what has happen in your lives in this country that you are part of. How can we help make this world better for you and only you not some White women who think they have all the answers but do not even know what you feel.

I do not want to hear how they remember or what they think. Please please tell me what you can. Help me to know and learn. If this site was truly started for this alone I want all of you women to just step back and ask those who know more then oh I remember this and I remember that. I really do not care what you remember and how you bragged about it.

I want facts from the people who really know what their life is about and how I as a white women what I can do help you, make Dr. Kings dream become what he wanted your life to be..
Dr. King was a minster of great faith. He knew how to tell us the truth about God.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

May I suggest that begin your own thread called African American POV only?



theyarnlady said:


> I have read all that is posted on this site,about oh this and oh that.
> 
> I myself do not want to hear a bunch of White women telling me what they think or what they have to say about the black race.
> 
> ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Most likely everyone in the class would laugh because there is no proof that anything in the Bible is true. The Bible is not meant to be accepted literally any more than "Little Red Riding Hood" is about a wolf eating a grandmother.
> Parables are used to educate just like fairy tales and fables.


Obviously you didn't do well in your studies as your words are completely false. There is lots of proof, scientific, historical, physical, that proves out what the Bible speaks which is the Truth.

Whether you chose to believe its teachings or not does not mean the proof does not exist.

As evidenced by your words, you have no idea how the Bible is to be studied nor the meaning of the words it contains. You're loss and you are lost. You're best to stick to your fairy tales and enjoy your short life on earth while you have it I guess.

That theory is not of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s opinion or beliefs. MLK believed and was a follower of God and the Bible.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> He stated in an interview on TV, last night, that he was not invited.


That interview would never be aired on MSNBC.  You know, the place of goblins and fairytales.


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## mmg (May 17, 2011)

Unfortunately I feel this has turned to utter nonsense so I am going to Unwatch this thread


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> May I suggest that begin your own thread called African American POV only?


May I suggest you get off your additude problem and be more open to what this post was started for.

You are so selfish as to really think you have all the answers. In other words you do not want to hear what the black women and men have to say. Empty words from you is all it is about.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I have read all that is posted on this site,about oh this and oh that.
> 
> I myself do not want to hear a bunch of White women telling me what they think or what they have to say about the black race.
> 
> ...


Bravo! I, too, am still waiting for that discussion as it was stated to be the purpose of this thread. MLK was a man of God and Faith and would not be happy to hear the statistics and decreasing values of family, education and prosperity in the black community.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You do have to wonder how that works, eh?
> Is the bigotry just a habit? Was he pleasing his mother?


You hit the nail on the head--I'm sure it's no coincidence that my father adored his bigoted mother while my mother didn't get along particularly well with her arch-racist dad. At the age of eight or ten she saw a car belonging to a group of young African-Americans have the awful misfortune of breaking down in front of her parents' home. Instantly her father was standing at the window screaming at the young men to get their "n-gger heap" in gear and off HIS property. Years later the incident still bothered my mother--she knew it was wrong, but the fact that the slurs were uttered by a father she didn't respect no doubt highlighted the realization.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Theyarnlady is correct, still no discussion of the concerns of the black race today. Only folks telling of their past experiences with no thoughts to today's problems and future solutions.

I still remain hopeful someone will begin the discussion.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bravo! I, too, am still waiting for that discussion as it was stated to be the purpose of this thread. MLK was a man of God and Faith and would not be happy to hear the statistics and decreasing values of family, education and prosperity in the black community.


Well like a lot of Dems he was an adulterer.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

THE BEGINNING OF SLAVERY IN AMERICA

This is the first part of the timeline of slavery in America and how it impacted the early formation of the United States of America. In order to understand who we are we must know our history and how this history has brought us to where we are and who we are as a nation.

At Jamestown, Virginia, approximately 20 captive Africans are sold into slavery in the British North American colonies. 

1612 
The first commercial tobacco crop is raised in Jamestown, Virginia.

1626 
The Dutch West India Company imports 11 black male slaves into the New Netherlands.

1636 
Colonial North America's slave trade begins when the first American slave carrier, Desire, is built and launched in Massachusetts.

1640 
John Punch, a runaway black servant, is sentenced to servitude for life. His two white companions are given extended terms of servitude. Punch is the first documented slave for life.

1640 
New Netherlands law forbids residents from harboring or feeding runaway slaves. 

1641 
The D'Angola marriage is the first recorded marriage between blacks in New Amsterdam.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I have read all that is posted on this site,about oh this and oh that.
> 
> I myself do not want to hear a bunch of White women telling me what they think or what they have to say about the black race.
> 
> ...


Then go and start a thread, yarnie.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good question. I know students who have received failing grades because they did not conform or agree with their liberal professor.
> 
> I experienced the same prejudice when I studied Biology under one of my college professors. I was given the grade I earned, but many of the students protested to what was being taught - only Evolution for the creation of man.


What else is there?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Tim Scott was not invited to yesterday's "I Have a Dream" celebration because he stands against everything MLK was fighting for.
Hi is a newly _appointed_ senator who more than likely won't be in DC very long.
The content of character should be the main focus of a person. I don't see anything in Scott's character to indicate that he should have been invited to speak.
He is anti-choice, anti-immigration, anti-union, anti-foodstamps, anti-healthcare, etc.
Wouldn't right wingers speaking at a "I Have a Dream" celebration be like Scott Walker speaking at a labor movement celebration? Or Rick Scott speaking at a celebration for suffrage?
Many Republicans had their own celebration at the Capitol.
Other's joined in the march this past Saturday.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Well like a lot of Dems he was an adulterer.


So did King David commit adultery and he was considered to be a very great man. Please post on another thread if your only intent is to be uncivil. We are looking for a peaceful sight to exchange ideas in a respectful way and you are showing a lack of respect for others who want to post her in a kind and considerate manner. You are well aware of the other political threads to post on so please if you must be disrespectful I am asking you with great respect to do what is the decent thing and post elsewhere. Thank you for your kindness and cooperation in this respect. You are welcome back when you decide to leave all acrimony behind. We have asked God's blessing on this thread that all who post here show respect towards their fellow posters and I am sure you do not want to do any more harm.

David committed adultery with Bathsheba, when her husband, Uriah, was away at war (2 Samuel 11:1-27).


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

disgo said:


> As a youth of that time (one of my teachers was a Freedom Rider. She taught in MT where now a judge in the largest city in the state gave a convicted rapist 30 days in prison) I can only say how my already physically damaged heart has sunken to an all time low. My only wish would be that people would realize the March was for Jobs since nothing at that point was working and the government, although quote was "liberal" at the time, the desire to have civil rights was very dim (are there correlations to today?) so another plan was formulated--desperate times lead to desperate measures even when they are non-violent. Even the promotion to buy "Made in America" has been tainted by scams where it means the label was and has nothing to do with the product. I was witness to the demise of manufacturing to get rid of the unions that had suffered for all the working class and now see the statistics, that verify what I knew all along, that workers are producing more and more for less and less. The turn of the twenty first century showed how low some could stoop for their greedy purposes with the Industrial Age. Then the chaos of wars to confuse the masses into not realizing their actual plight. Then globalization (which has been going on longer than people knew) computerization and now robotics and not far off the creation of sub level working "animatronics" or whatever term they use to make workers that can do the will of their master just so they can receive the energy to keep them from being deleted (R2D2?). Knowledge has now become the sin of the world instead of being used for positives and does that surprise anyone where now all we need is another app to complete our every demand.
> 
> I'm afraid my marching, protesting, struggling was all in vain so I leave you all without creating any righteous ripples in the force--I'm afraid I need someone to push my weary physical being up to the steps of righteousness, that have no wheel chair access due to budget constraints, nor the strength or stamina to pull myself up, but I am willing to lay down and let those who can get up there for mankind.
> 
> I too had a dream but I'm awake with the reality of depravity picking at my carcass. God Bless Everyone!


disgo
Nothing is ever in vain.
I am happy to pick up where you want to leave off. 
We may not exactly achieve what we set out to do, but giving up is no option, never for me.
Have seen too much suffering in my Life and whatever I can do to prevent any, it is worth my effort to fight for.
Take my hand and together WE CAN make a difference.
Ingried


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Remember ladies, Silence is the best reply to a fool.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Great - the thread is supposed to be about the furtherance of the rights of blacks and equality and the OP outlines instead how slavery began 370 years ago.

Any questions? No discussion did she ever intend. Her sole purpose was to start a grievance thread to attack anyone with a point of view different from her own.

At least she was kind enough to post her private banking info for us all albeit she lied about doing so. 

Talk about content of character ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So did King David commit adultery and he was considered to be a very great man. Please post on another thread if your only intent is to be uncivil. We are looking for a peaceful sight to exchange ideas in a respectful way and you are showing a lack of respect for others who want to post her in a kind and considerate manner. You are well aware of the other political threads to post on so please if you must be disrespectful I am asking you with great respect to do what is the decent thing and post elsewhere. Thank you for your kindness and cooperation in this respect. You are welcome back when you decide to leave all acrimony behind. We have asked God's blessing on this thread that all who post here show respect towards their fellow posters and I am sure you do not want to do any more harm.
> 
> David committed adultery with Bathsheba, when her husband, Uriah, was away at war (2 Samuel 11:1-27).


Your best supporters in this thread do not believe in God, the Bible or have Faith nor do you as you've repeatedly posted elsewhere.

Why then, do you mock God, and demand His blessing on this thread?

MLK was a sinner like any other man. Because someone wrote the truth about him is no reason to refute his sin by 'tattling' on another.

Act with integrity and get onto your stated purpose of this thread if you expect respect and posts of moral character.

A leader leads, and we're all waiting for you to begin.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good question. I know students who have received failing grades because they did not conform or agree with their liberal professor.
> 
> I experienced the same prejudice when I studied Biology under one of my college professors. I was given the grade I earned, but many of the students protested to what was being taught - only Evolution for the creation of man.


knitpresent
Congratulations to your Professor to teach reality and not fiction.
Now if you could find someone who will teach you what the Bible says about each and every one of us IN THE IMAGE OF GOD you may shed the hatred you spew towards many.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresent
> Congratulations to your Professor to teach reality and not fiction.
> Now if you could find someone who will teach you what the Bible says about each and every one of us IN THE IMAGE OF GOD you may shed the hatred you spew towards many.


Thank you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Tim Scott was not invited to yesterday's "I Have a Dream" celebration because he stands against everything MLK was fighting for.
> Hi is a newly _appointed_ senator who more than likely won't be in DC very long.
> The content of character should be the main focus of a person. I don't see anything in Scott's character to indicate that he should have been invited to speak.
> He is anti-choice, anti-immigration, anti-union, anti-foodstamps, anti-healthcare, etc.
> ...


GWPlver will want to know how you know this info about Scott.

An event honoring MLK is supposed to be about the futhering of his dreams of equality, hard work, the love of God and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - what he described as the American Dream.

At least, those were the key elements Dr. King discussed. Rather than all the 'anti' things you mentioned above. Those topics are for politicians not peace activists and men of God.

Stay on topic please and stop your whining and begin a discussion about how to assist the black race.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> disgo
> Nothing is ever in vain.
> I am happy to pick up where you want to leave off.
> We may not exactly achieve what we set out to do, but giving up is no option, never for me.
> ...


Good. Then discuss what you think and have done or are doing to promote the equality Dr. King dreamt of.

What are your ideas for helping the black race from their poor statistics and lack of prosperity?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky, you are doing just fine. Juat ignore it and keep posting. You started this thread, not it, and you have nothing to prove to it.
It just can't stay from us.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

NJG is correct. Silence is the answer to the lack of discussion directed to the fool who began this thread with bogus intentions.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I believe MLK would like to see higher wages and a good education to help people out of poverty.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> When was MLK pro-choice, pro-immigration, pro-union, pro- food stamps, pro- government health care?
> 
> He was killed before Roe v Wade, before food stamps, before any government health care was an issue, immigration was not an issue before he was killed, unions were the norm in the 60's.


Joey, those Libs posting do not even know who he was nor what MLK, Jr., believed or stood for.

They began this thread to shadow how 'good' they are and how they are 'not Racists.'

Nothing could be further from the truth.

There has been and will be no discussion about race equality as they have no knowledge nor know the history behind the Civil Rights movement. Neither do these Libs have any ability to discuss solutions to help the black race and communities prosper and hope for change.

They just like to throw their pride around like toys without awareness or knowledge.

Ridiculous for us to believe they would begin a thread for good intentions and purpose.

They are not capable.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> GWPlver will want to know how you know this info about Scott.
> 
> An event honoring MLK is supposed to be about the futhering of his dreams of equality, hard work, the love of God and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - what he described as the American Dream.
> 
> ...


This is not your thread nor did you start this discussion.
Take a hike and go where you are wanted because it isn't here.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I believe MLK would like to see higher wages and a good education to help people out of poverty.


He would. Do you have any proposals so that could happen?

Please do not simply state that Corps and Walmart must provide a higher wage.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is not your thread nor did you start this discussion.
> Take a hike and go where you are wanted because it isn't here.


Such an ignorant and bratty response. I'm glad I have a screen shot of it as well although I'll do everything I can to forget it.

I truly hope you don't treat others or those in your family like the animal you are.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I remember being in a classroom when we were watching MLK's original speech. We had 1 black family in the whole school.
We were discussing civil rights beforehand. It was a day I will never forget.Nor the day that he was murdered.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Of course he did. I will not preach to you the same thing. People need a good education and a living wage to break free from poverty. I believe in work, although some of you may be surprised. But hard work should be rewarded by a good salary and decent working conditions.
I will kindly ask one more time that some of you whose motive is inspired by hatred for personalities and certain ideological viewpoints are welcome to start another thread on which the content can be more to your liking and more controlled by you. You should not be here to push your own political agenda or your own idea of what this thread should be about. You have no standing here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Such a ladylike response. Glad I have a screen shot of it as well.
> 
> Please don't treat others like the animal you are.


This is the last time, Cherf. Good, save it! I should have left it up. Maybe you can take the hint now. You are not here for a discussion, but for a fight, in which we have all agreed not to give you.
Post if you must, but expect no more replies.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Of course he did. I will not preach to you the same thing. People need a good education and a living wage to break free from poverty. I believe in work, although some of you may be surprised. But hard work should be rewarded by a good salary and decent working conditions.
> I will kindly ask one more time that some of you whose motive is inspired by hatred for personalities and certain ideological viewpoints are welcome to start another thread on which the content can be more to your liking and more controlled by you. You should not be here to push your own political agenda or your own idea of what this thread should be about. You have no standing here.


Very well said, Al. They could easily start their own thread, but it's more fun for them to antagonize in this one.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> He would. Do you have any proposals so that could happen?
> 
> Please do not simply state that Corps and Walmart must provide a higher wage.


But part of the problem of getting people to earn their keep is to have wages that are higher than not working.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Very well said, Al. They could easily start their own thread, but it's more fun for them to antagonize in this one.


(That's Borderlines for you.)


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good. Then discuss what you think and have done or are doing to promote the equality Dr. King dreamt of.
> 
> What are your ideas for helping the black race from their poor statistics and lack of prosperity?


I think Joe Biden was right, it is a three letter word: JOBS


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Of course he did. I will not preach to you the same thing. People need a good education and a living wage to break free from poverty. I believe in work, although some of you may be surprised. But hard work should be rewarded by a good salary and decent working conditions.
> I will kindly ask one more time that some of you whose motive is inspired by hatred for personalities and certain ideological viewpoints are welcome to start another thread on which the content can be more to your liking and more controlled by you. You should not be here to push your own political agenda or your own idea of what this thread should be about. You have no standing here.


I think the opportunity to a decent education is needed. In many cities, the underprivileged don't have the same access to educational materials. A case study was in our local newspaper recently. I'm sure of the teachers on this thread understand the issue.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Of course he did. I will not preach to you the same thing. People need a good education and a living wage to break free from poverty. I believe in work, although some of you may be surprised. But hard work should be rewarded by a good salary and decent working conditions.


I agree, Al. In some ways the problems facing African-Americans are much harder to deal with now--much less obvious than those "No ********" signs that were so long a Southern staple.
They cycle of poverty is hard to break, no question. It doesn't help at all that a lot of African-American families are headed by women, whose work (like women of all colors) has always been undervalued and underpaid. Decent wages, access to healthcare and childcare, and emphasis on education would seem to be a good place to start.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> GWPlver will want to know how you know this info about Scott.
> 
> An event honoring MLK is supposed to be about the futhering of his dreams of equality, hard work, the love of God and the Constitution and the Bill of Rights - what he described as the American Dream.
> 
> ...


Her comment is a start - you didn't reply. Are you going to reply?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So did King David commit adultery and he was considered to be a very great man. Please post on another thread if your only intent is to be uncivil. We are looking for a peaceful sight to exchange ideas in a respectful way and you are showing a lack of respect for others who want to post her in a kind and considerate manner. You are well aware of the other political threads to post on so please if you must be disrespectful I am asking you with great respect to do what is the decent thing and post elsewhere. Thank you for your kindness and cooperation in this respect. You are welcome back when you decide to leave all acrimony behind. We have asked God's blessing on this thread that all who post here show respect towards their fellow posters and I am sure you do not want to do any more harm.
> 
> David committed adultery with Bathsheba, when her husband, Uriah, was away at war (2 Samuel 11:1-27).


If it was wrong then, it is still wrong

May you have a wonderful and blessed day


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I think Joe Biden was right, it is a three letter word: JOBS


Did you happen to see BrattyPattys' three and four letter words?

Appalling. No one should attempt to respond or even read that person's posts *ever.*


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Her comment is a start - you didn't reply. Are you going to reply?


Where is Bratty's comment that I didn't reply to? I do not see it.

BTW: I do not respond to animals or which she has recently proven herself to be. Perhaps the comment you are referring to was part of the post she deleted/edited since she used despicable and disgusting words not appropriate for anyone to read.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Just read this....

Gay marriages to be recognized across US by IRS
NBC News staff, 
1 hour ago 

"All married, same-sex couples in the U.S. will receive federal tax benefits previously given to just heterosexual couples, the Obama administration said on Thursday. 

The ruling applies even to gay couples that live in states where their union is not recognized -- so long as they were married in a state that allows same-sex marriage."

Seems to fit in with our discussion of equality.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Tim Scott was not invited to yesterday's "I Have a Dream" celebration because he stands against everything MLK was fighting for.
> Hi is a newly _appointed_ senator who more than likely won't be in DC very long.
> The content of character should be the main focus of a person. I don't see anything in Scott's character to indicate that he should have been invited to speak.
> He is anti-choice, anti-immigration, anti-union, anti-foodstamps, anti-healthcare, etc.
> ...


Thanks for presenting the facts, Patty. We can all work together towards the realization of Dr. King's dream. Sadly, only a few of today's Republicans "get" what the dream really meant and that the dream excluded no one and was all inclusive as that is the only way the dream can ultimately be realized. We are all in it together and all will reap the rewards when it is attained.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Just read this....
> 
> Gay marriages to be recognized across US by IRS
> NBC News staff,
> ...


Thanks for sharing that good news with us GW. We have come a long ways and we still have a ways to go but we are headed in the right direction. :thumbup:


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

It is sad to me that these threads have to turn to judgement and criticism. The best way to further Martin Luthur King's cause is by being loving and showing respect. The put downs don't help one bit. They just sound like Jr. High School girls who can't get along. If you are a Christian, then you aren't setting a good example for me or others. You can spot a loving and caring person by their deeds not their words.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

LizAnne said:


> It is sad to me that these threads have to turn to judgement and criticism. The best way to further Martin Luthur King's cause is by being loving and showing respect. The put downs don't help one bit. They just sound like Jr. High School girls who can't get along. If you are a Christian, then you aren't setting a good example for me or others. You can spot a loving and caring person by their deeds not their words.


I would think that someone your age would not need another person your age to set examples for you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty wrote:
This is not your thread nor did you start this discussion.
Take a hike and go where you are wanted because it isn't here.

KPG wrote:
Such a ladylike response. Glad I have a screen shot of it as well.

I truly hope you don't treat others or those in your family like the animal you are.

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16

Please KPG - I started this thread and I am asking you once again to please leave this thread and unless you have a complete change of heart please do not post here again. You have only one objective and that is to destroy this thread. I don't understand your motives so why don't you just start your own thread and share it with your friends. I am sure they will appreciate it and thank you for it. These posters are our friends and you are the one who is being disrespectful and very unkind. I am asking you again to please leave. There is nothing for you here. You openly hate me and all I stand for and it only reflects badly on you, not me. You will be much happier with people who will give you the attention and nurturing that you seek. I will not set foot on your new thread so please leave this one and don't return. Do something nice for yourself and by being kind to yourself you will be being kind to all the rest of us. Thank you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> But part of the problem of getting people to earn their keep is to have wages that are higher than not working.


There is always two sides of the income/expense equation. Increase your experience and skill set so you are deserving of higher wages or reduce your expenses.

In the case of those choosing not to work and accepting welfare or unemployment or WIC, SNAP, or other such subsidies, the way to incentivize people to work is to gradually decrease the benefits. It has been shown (proven) again and again that folks find work within the last few weeks of when their unemployment or govt welfare benefits will stop.

In our capitalist society, wages are based on the work done and what the market will bear.

As stated repeatedly in the past, working in fast-food places or retail establishments, etc., are and were never meant to be life-time career jobs with the exception of the management, accounting and administrative staffs.

No employer is going to pay higher wages only because someone wants them. Increased experience, value-added work and skill sets are rewarded with higher wages.

Never can a govt or society support the worker, the worker must support himself and arm himself with the necessary skills, education and tools to earn that which he desires.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

LizAnne said:


> It is sad to me that these threads have to turn to judgement and criticism. The best way to further Martin Luthur King's cause is by being loving and showing respect. The put downs don't help one bit. They just sound like Jr. High School girls who can't get along. If you are a Christian, then you aren't setting a good example for me or others. You can spot a loving and caring person by their deeds not their words.


Welcome back, LizAnne. For the most part we have a lot of friends and other KP people who are trying to enjoy this new thread and we are getting a lot of positive feedback. I have respectfully asked KPG and Love the Lake to not post here as it is very evident to all other posters that they only want to destroy this thread. That is their only reason to be here. I have even suggested they start their own thread which I am sure will interest some KP people and then everyone can be happy. As you pointed out you can tell who the loving and caring people are by their deeds so lets pray they will do everyone a good deed today and depart. We will all thank them for it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CONTINUATION OF SLAVERY TIMELINE

Virginia enacts a law of hereditary slavery meaning that a child born to an enslaved mother inherits her slave status. 

1662
Massachusetts reverses a ruling dating back to 1652 that allowed blacks to train in arms. New York, Connecticut, and New Hampshire pass similar laws restricting the bearing of arms.

1663
In Gloucester County, Virginia, the first documented slave rebellion in the colonies takes place. 

1663
Maryland legalizes slavery.	

1663
Charles II, King of England, gives the Carolinas to proprietors. Until the 1680s, most settlers in the region are small landowners from Barbados.

1664
New York and New Jersey legalize slavery.

1664
Maryland is the first colony to take legal action against marriages between white women and black men. 

1664
The State of Maryland mandates lifelong servitude for all black slaves. New York, New Jersey, the Carolinas, and Virginia all pass similar laws. 

1666
Maryland passes a fugitive slave law. 

1667
Virginia declares that Christian baptism will not alter a person's status as a slave. 

1668
New Jersey passes a fugitive slave law. 

1670
The State of Virginia prohibits free blacks and Indians from keeping Christian (i.e. white) servants. 

1674
New York declares that blacks who convert to Christianity after their enslavement will not be freed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RONALD REAGAN famously said, We fought a war on poverty and poverty won. With 46 million Americans  15 percent of the population  now counted as poor, its tempting to think he may have been right. 

Look a little deeper and the temptation grows. The lowest percentage in poverty since we started counting was 11.1 percent in 1973. The rate climbed as high as 15.2 percent in 1983. In 2000, after a spurt of prosperity, it went back down to 11.3 percent, and yet 15 million more people are poor today. 

At the same time, we have done a lot that works. From Social Security to food stamps to the earned-income tax credit and on and on, we have enacted programs that now keep 40 million people out of poverty. Poverty would be nearly double what it is now without these measures, according to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities. To say that poverty won is like saying the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts failed because there is still pollution. 

With all of that, why have we not achieved more? Four reasons: An astonishing number of people work at low-wage jobs. Plus, many more households are headed now by a single parent, making it difficult for them to earn a living income from the jobs that are typically available. The near disappearance of cash assistance for low-income mothers and children  i.e., welfare  in much of the country plays a contributing role, too. And persistent issues of race and gender mean higher poverty among minorities and families headed by single mothers. 

The first thing needed if were to get people out of poverty is more jobs that pay decent wages. There arent enough of these in our current economy. The need for good jobs extends far beyond the current crisis; well need a full-employment policy and a bigger investment in 21st-century education and skill development strategies if were to have any hope of breaking out of the current economic malaise. 

This isnt a problem specific to the current moment. Weve been drowning in a flood of low-wage jobs for the last 40 years. Most of the income of people in poverty comes from work. According to the most recent data available from the Census Bureau, 104 million people  a third of the population  have annual incomes below twice the poverty line, less than $38,000 for a family of three. They struggle to make ends meet every month. 

Half the jobs in the nation pay less than $34,000 a year, according to the Economic Policy Institute. A quarter pay below the poverty line for a family of four, less than $23,000 annually. Families that can send another adult to work have done better, but single mothers (and fathers) dont have that option. Poverty among families with children headed by single mothers exceeds 40 percent. 

Wages for those who work on jobs in the bottom half have been stuck since 1973, increasing just 7 percent. 

Its not that the whole economy stagnated. Theres been growth, a lot of it, but it has stuck at the top. The realization that 99 percent of us have been left in the dust by the 1 percent at the top (some much further behind than others) came far later than it should have  Rip Van Winkle and then some. It took the Great Recession to get peoples attention, but the facts had been accumulating for a long time. If weve awakened, we can act. 

Low-wage jobs bedevil tens of millions of people. At the other end of the low-income spectrum we have a different problem. The safety net for single mothers and their children has developed a gaping hole over the past dozen years. This is a major cause of the dramatic increase in extreme poverty during those years. The census tells us that 20.5 million people earn incomes below half the poverty line, less than about $9,500 for a family of three  up eight million from 2000. 

Why? A substantial reason is the near demise of welfare  now called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF. In the mid-90s more than two-thirds of children in poor families received welfare. But that number has dwindled over the past decade and a half to roughly 27 percent. 

One result: six million people have no income other than food stamps. Food stamps provide an income at a third of the poverty line, close to $6,300 for a family of three. Its hard to understand how they survive. 

At least we have food stamps. They have been a powerful antirecession tool in the past five years, with the number of recipients rising to 46 million today from 26.3 million in 2007. By contrast, welfare has done little to counter the impact of the recession; although the number of people receiving cash assistance rose from 3.9 million to 4.5 million since 2007, many states actually reduced the size of their rolls and lowered benefits to those in greatest need. 

Race and gender play an enormous part in determining povertys continuing course. Minorities are disproportionately poor: around 27 percent of African-Americans, Latinos and American Indians are poor, versus 10 percent of whites. Wealth disparities are even wider. At the same time, whites constitute the largest number among the poor. This is a fact that bears emphasis, since measures to raise income and provide work supports will help more whites than minorities. But we cannot ignore race and gender, both because they present particular challenges and because so much of the politics of poverty is grounded in those issues. 

We know what we need to do  make the rich pay their fair share of running the country, raise the minimum wage, provide health care and a decent safety net, and the like. But realistically, the immediate challenge is keeping what we have. Representative Paul Ryan and his ideological peers would slash everything from Social Security to Medicare and on through the list, and would hand out more tax breaks to the people at the top. Robin Hood would turn over in his grave. 

We should not kid ourselves. It isnt certain that things will stay as good as they are now. The wealth and income of the top 1 percent grows at the expense of everyone else. Money breeds power and power breeds more money. It is a truly vicious circle. 

A surefire politics of change would necessarily involve getting people in the middle  from the 30th to the 70th percentile  to see their own economic self-interest. If they vote in their own self-interest, theyll elect people who are likely to be more aligned with people with lower incomes as well as with them. As long as people in the middle identify more with people on the top than with those on the bottom, we are doomed. The obscene amount of money flowing into the electoral process makes things harder yet. 

But history shows that people power wins sometimes. Thats what happened in the Progressive Era a century ago and in the Great Depression as well. The gross inequality of those times produced an amalgam of popular unrest, organization, muckraking journalism and political leadership that attacked the big  and worsening  structural problem of economic inequality. The civil rights movement changed the course of history and spread into the womens movement, the environmental movement and, later, the gay rights movement. Could we have said on the day before the dawn of each that it would happen, let alone succeed? Did Rosa Parks know? 

We have the ingredients. For one thing, the demographics of the electorate are changing. The consequences of that are hardly automatic, but they create an opportunity. The new generation of young people  unusually distrustful of encrusted power in all institutions and, as a consequence, tending toward libertarianism  is ripe for a new politics of honesty. Lower-income people will participate if there are candidates who speak to their situations. The change has to come from the bottom up and from synergistic leadership that draws it out. When people decide they have had enough and there are candidates who stand for what they want, they will vote accordingly. 

I have seen days of promise and days of darkness, and Ive seen them more than once. All history is like that. The people have the power if they will use it, but they have to see that it is in their interest to do so. 




Peter Edelman is a professor of law at Georgetown University and the author, most recently, of So Rich, So Poor: Why Its So Hard to End Poverty in America.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I would think that someone your age would not need another person your age to set examples for you.


I would suggest you could just settle for trying to be civil.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No big deal, it was there for 2012 also, only they had to live in the state where it was a legal marriage.


It is a big deal for all our GLBT friends, Joey. It's about time they have the same rights as all other Americans do. If you don't agree, Joey you must have taken a left when you meant to take a right. Please don't rain on our GAY PARADE, Yeah! :thumbup: 
If you are uncomfortable with equal rights you are not on the correct thread. On this thread we realize the beauty and wonder of all God's children just as Dr. King did and all other people of good will do.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please KPG - I started this thread and I am asking you once again to please leave this thread and unless you have a complete change of heart please do not post here again. You have only one objective and that is to destroy this thread. I don't understand your motives so why don't you just start your own thread and share it with your friends. I am sure they will appreciate it and thank you for it. These posters are our friends and you are the one who is being disrespectful and very unkind. I am asking you again to please leave. There is nothing for you here. You openly hate me and all I stand for and it only reflects badly on you, not me. You will be much happier with people who will give you the attention and nurturing that you seek. I will not set foot on your new thread so please leave this one and don't return. Do something nice for yourself and by being kind to yourself you will be being kind to all the rest of us. Thank you.


You are I both know those are not the words nor the post I was referring to. Shall I post my polite post and then Bratty's vulgar post and ruin 'your' thread?

Are you threatening me, Cheeky? Or just more of your empty promises.

Do yourself a favor and get involved in a Church and LEAVE ME ALONE.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That may be the way for you, I am not at all interested in making anyone live on nothing. 
Children need to be cared for, those with mental illness need to be cared for, those who are developmentally disordered need to be cared for, those who are elderly and did not have the opportunity to put away enough to sustain themselves during their waning years need to be cared for. I am sorry that you don't appreciate that viewpoint. 
Your messiah said that those who take care of the poor will be rewarded.

Jesus said that the poor would always be with us (Matthew 26:11; Mark 14:7). He also said that those who show mercy to the poor, the sick and the needy are in effect ministering to Him personally (Matthew 25:35-40



knitpresentgifts said:


> There is always two sides of the income/expense equation. Increase your experience and skill set so you are deserving of higher wages or reduce your expenses.
> 
> In the case of those choosing not to work and accepting welfare or unemployment or WIC, SNAP, or other such subsidies, the way to incentivize people to work is to gradually decrease the benefits. It has been shown (proven) again and again that folks find work within the last few weeks of when their unemployment or govt welfare benefits will stop.
> 
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> There is always two sides of the income/expense equation. Increase your experience and skill set so you are deserving of higher wages or reduce your expenses.
> 
> In the case of those choosing not to work and accepting welfare or unemployment or WIC, SNAP, or other such subsidies, the way to incentivize people to work is to gradually decrease the benefits. It has been shown (proven) again and again that folks find work within the last few weeks of when their unemployment or govt welfare benefits will stop.
> 
> ...


There are people who can work a lower-skilled job and that's all they can do. For one reason or another, that is the level they can attain in the work place. There are many such people who deserve a living wage. They have earned it because they work hard and that's the best they can do. We need to have laws that guarantee them that so that they don't have to depend on the government. They should be able to depend on their employer. And why don't the employers or corporations have responsibilities as part of our society? We, the people, do.
I'm sure there are many who want to get out of their job situation to earn more money and to obtain greater satisfaction in their work. It's not as easy as snapping your fingers. Education costs money, and education takes time, and education takes opportunity. If an individual is working at a low-paying job and has a child or two how feasible is it that s/he has the capability to get new job training or more education? How can that person who is likely working for minimum wage cut his/her expenses when they can barely cover food and rent? And, where are the jobs they should prepare themselves for? The reality is that these jobs you think shouldn't be anyone's career are often the only job available. 
Why is there so much opposition to government creation of jobs that would benefit individuals as well as the economy? Our infrastructure is in terrible shape, but nobody wants to do anything.
I understand perfectly everything you've said here, but I think there's a disconnect with how things work in reality. We don't really understand how poor the working poor really are in today's world. I think many of us are too far removed from wondering where the next meal is coming from. The fact is that there are many working poor who would like nothing better than to leave their low-paying jobs and better themselves, but don't have the wherewithal to get there. Who besides the government can help these people if they can't make it happen for themselves?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Uhhuh, I heard that on NPR. WooHoo... another group benefitting from the sacrifices of those brave men and women who brought us the civil rights movement.



GWPlver said:


> Just read this....
> 
> Gay marriages to be recognized across US by IRS
> NBC News staff,
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

DOMA was not struck down until 2013. 
Despite the Republicans in the House of Representives wasting our money fighting for DOMA after the President and Dept. of Justice refused to defend it. The SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional this year because a married woman from Massachusetts was forced to pay over $300K in taxes after her spouse died. This was due to those angry old white men voting on their fears that any self respecting gay man would ever want a piece of any one of them. <snark>



joeysomma said:


> No big deal, it was there for 2012 also, only they had to live in the state where it was a legal marriage.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> DOMA was not struck down until 2013.
> Despite the Republicans in the House of Representives wasting our money fighting for DOMA after the President and Dept. of Justice refused to defend it. The SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional this year because a married woman from Massachusetts was forced to pay over $300K in taxes after her spouse died. This was due to those angry old white men voting on their fears that any self respecting gay man would ever want a piece of any one of them. <snark>


Very well stated, jelun


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> Remember ladies, Silence is the best reply to a fool.


 :roll: as difficult as it may be  
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think Dr King would not want to claim any part of same sex marriage.
> It was not part of the civil rights Dr King wanted.


Silence is golden


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Silence is golden


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

None of us can be sure what Dr. King would think now, he would be 84 this year. 
What we do know is that he worked side by side with at least one openly gay man.
What matters more than what that one man might think is what civil rights activists believe today. 
While there are a few holdouts, most people who understand and cherish human rights and civil rights embrace the LGBTQ population. 
I am thankful for that. We are our brothers' and sisters' keepers.



joeysomma said:


> I don't think Dr King would not want to claim any part of same sex marriage.
> It was not part of the civil rights Dr King wanted.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The point is that married people don't have to think ahead, heterosexual or same sex. 
There is no reason to put spouse in quotes, Massachusetts was the first state to recognize same sex marriage as a constitutional right. The term is spouse.


joeysomma said:


> If her "spouse?" would have planned ahead she could have avoided some or most of the tax issue. There are ways around almost any taxes in an inheritance.
> 
> Was it 401k or an IRA? the deceased should have named her "spouse?" as the beneficiary. Then it would have been transferred to her without any taxes until she withdrew it. The same taxes as if the deceased had withdrawn them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

OMG OMG, please post that about every 6 seconds. 
My ability to be respectful in the face of total ignorance is fading fast.



BrattyPatty said:


> Silence is golden


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> OMG OMG, please post that about every 6 seconds.
> My ability to be respectful in the face of total ignorance is fading fast.


I know all about that! :mrgreen:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think Dr King would not want to claim any part of same sex marriage.
> It was not part of the civil rights Dr King wanted.


joeysomma
learn English properly and then post. You are contradicting yourself. Oh well, some things just remain the same.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think Dr King would not want to claim any part of same sex marriage.
> It was not part of the civil rights Dr King wanted.


Then you would be wrong, Joey. Please go to another thread unless you have changed your politics to the left. This is not a thread I started for the hardliners on the right. As I have said before it is a site for Liberals. Please do yourself and the rest of us a favor and post on the other political threads. What joy does it give you to force yourself in a place you are not wanted? I do not want to have any confrontations with you and neither do the rest of us. People have been very kind to you and you just keep pushing and you are becoming very provocative. I am asking you to please show some respect and leave "my home" and go elsewhere if all you want to do is poke a stick at others as that is all you have been doing. We don't want any bickering on this thread. Start your own thread and take KPG and Love the Lake with you. No more fighting with any of you on this thread. I don't ever post on your thread, D&P, so please act like a lady and leave.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is a big deal for all our GLBT friends, Joey. It's about time they have the same rights as all other Americans do. If you don't agree, Joey you must have taken a left when you meant to take a right. Please don't rain on our GAY PARADE, Yeah! :thumbup:
> If you are uncomfortable with equal rights you are not on the correct thread. On this thread we realize the beauty and wonder of all God's children just as Dr. King did and all other people of good will do.


Marriage has never been and will never be a 'right'. Stop turning wrong and left and turn right to see the light.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> DOMA was not struck down until 2013.
> Despite the Republicans in the House of Representives wasting our money fighting for DOMA after the President and Dept. of Justice refused to defend it. The SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional this year because a married woman from Massachusetts was forced to pay over $300K in taxes after her spouse died. This was due to those angry old white men voting on their fears that any self respecting gay man would ever want a piece of any one of them. <snark>


lejun2
And the best part of her winning this fight was that she got a refund. Thank you for another great piece of information. THANK YOU.
Will be coming home tomorrow. Has been a wonderful Cruise.
Highly recommend it. Great to be able to check in on our Home while away. Oh these modern gadgets. Get to wave at the neighbors as they look after our home.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

This thread has become as depressing as the others. The usual suspects have confirmed, yet again, their total contempt for anything outside their narrow minds. I just popped in to say hello to my old lefty mates. I have nothing to say to the rest.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please KPG - I started this thread and I am asking you once again to please leave this thread and unless you have a complete change of heart please do not post here again. You have only one objective and that is to destroy this thread. I am asking you again to please leave. There is nothing for you here. You openly hate me and all I stand for and it only reflects badly on you, not me. Thank you.


Give me a minute, and I'll post some of your all time best hate-filled words to me. Let the people of KP decide who it the hateful person.

You openly hate anyone, me included, who does not agree with you.

I'll prove it.

BTW: although you are old enough to be my mother, you are not she, nor are you anyone I take orders from. Deal with it.

Have a great evening!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Marriage has never been and will never be a 'right'. Stop turning wrong and left and turn right to see the light.


knitpresentgifts
how revealing. Still in your antagonizing mode. Why don't you take a detour to some church and have the Bible explained to you to see the light.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Welcome back, LizAnne. For the most part we have a lot of friends and other KP people who are trying to enjoy this new thread and we are getting a lot of positive feedback. I have respectfully asked KPG and Love the Lake to not post here as it is very evident to all other posters that they only want to destroy this thread. That is their only reason to be here. I have even suggested they start their own thread which I am sure will interest some KP people and then everyone can be happy. As you pointed out you can tell who the loving and caring people are by their deeds so lets pray they will do everyone a good deed today and depart. We will all thank them for it.


LizAnne - do not be fooled by Cheeky Blighter's lying words. Check for yourself her past posts. Anyone can see the evil and hatred she has for you and all who do not agree with her.

I'm sorry you had to witness her craftiness and ugliness. Many of us know her well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> That may be the way for you, I am not at all interested in making anyone live on nothing.
> Children need to be cared for, those with mental illness need to be cared for, those who are developmentally disordered need to be cared for, those who are elderly and did not have the opportunity to put away enough to sustain themselves during their waning years need to be cared for. I am sorry that you don't appreciate that viewpoint.
> Your messiah said that those who take care of the poor will be rewarded.
> 
> Jesus said that the poor would always be with us (Matthew 26:11; Mark 14:7). He also said that those who show mercy to the poor, the sick and the needy are in effect ministering to Him personally (Matthew 25:35-40


What do you know of Jesus? Jesus said we are to work from sunrise to sunset, give at least 10 percent of our income to our Church and then give to charitable causes. We are to be men and women of honor and character. We are to work and believe in Him and a workman is worth his hire. Shall I post all the verses for you because you have said prior the Bible is no better than a fairytale so why then are you attempting to quote the Bible?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

We are getting there, I hope. 
Some may have to be dragged kicking and screaming, but, true equality of opportunity has to be with us at sometime. At least for those of us who are in the lower 70%. 
Not so long ago, there was an illustration of the differences of two schools in the Chicago area. 30 miles apart maybe, one all spiffy the other a derelict building, part of the point being made was that the facility itself makes a difference in learning. 
I surely hope that gets fixed in the next 50 years.



Uyvonne said:


> I am so proud today to be an American. I could not say that 50 years ago. I was only 12 years old when Dr. King made that magnificent speech. We all knew that he was a special man. His dream gave dreams to so many that we could strive to reach our fullest potential.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Silence is golden


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am thankful for that. We are our brothers' and sisters' keepers.


Oh, goody. Then we can all assume you gave a minimum of 20% of your gross earnings to others in need. Then, you give and do charitable works above and beyond that.

Good to know.

After all, We the People ARE the government who you stated should take care of each and every one of US.

I'll look for my check from you by Saturday. Thank you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> We are getting there, I hope.
> Some may have to be dragged kicking and screaming, but, true equality of opportunity has to be with us at sometime. At least for those of us who are in the lower 70%.
> Not so long ago, there was an illustration of the differences of two schools in the Chicago area. 30 miles apart maybe, one all spiffy the other a derelict building, part of the point being made was that the facility itself makes a difference in learning.
> I surely hope that gets fixed in the next 50 years.


Yes, so do I jelun. It's time to lift those in poverty up into the middle class and give them a fair shake in life.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So happy about your excellent adventure. My next is a visit to my angel babies in NJ, soon I hope.



Huckleberry said:


> lejun2
> And the best part of her winning this fight was that she got a refund. Thank you for another great piece of information. THANK YOU.
> Will be coming home tomorrow. Has been a wonderful Cruise.
> Highly recommend it. Great to be able to check in on our Home while away. Oh these modern gadgets. Get to wave at the neighbors as they look after our home.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> how revealing. Still in your antagonizing mode. Why don't you take a detour to some church and have the Bible explained to you to see the light.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> The point is that married people don't have to think ahead, heterosexual or same sex.
> There is no reason to put spouse in quotes, Massachusetts was the first state to recognize same sex marriage as a constitutional right. The term is spouse.


The point is EVERY married couple NEEDS to plan and think ahead.

The fact you think neither is a requirement is one of the biggest problems with society today.

No one is ENTITLED to anything. Those that do not think ahead nor plan their lives deserve what the get. If that means nothing, that was their choice.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Silence is golden


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :XD: :thumbup: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> OMG OMG, please post that about every 6 seconds.
> My ability to be respectful in the face of total ignorance is fading fast.


Silence from that animal is indeed golden.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

hate, hate , hate. Silence is golden


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Then you would be wrong, Joey. Please go to another thread unless you have changed your politics to the left. This is not a thread I started for the hardliners on the right. As I have said before it is a site for Liberals. Please do yourself and the rest of us a favor and post on the other political threads. What joy does it give you to force yourself in a place you are not wanted? I do not want to have any confrontations with you and neither do the rest of us. People have been very kind to you and you just keep pushing and you are becoming very provocative. I am asking you to please show some respect and leave "my home" and go elsewhere if all you want to do is poke a stick at others as that is all you have been doing. We don't want any bickering on this thread. Start your own thread and take KPG and Love the Lake with you. No more fighting with any of you on this thread. I don't ever post on your thread, D&P, so please act like a lady and leave.


Can you ever say anything without lying?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is the last time, Cherf. Good, save it! I should have left it up. Maybe you can take the hint now. You are not here for a discussion, but for a fight, in which we have all agreed not to give you.
> Post if you must, but expect no more replies.


BrattyPatty
So sorry to have missed the Vacation with you lovely Ladies. I had a really nice time in Europe- even under the circumstances. Everything went as we had planned for long ago.

I have lots to tell.
As I see the same xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx are still at work.
Ingried


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun, marriage may not be a right in itself, but the freedom to choose who you marry is.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> hate, hate , hate. Silence is golden


We know you are hateful towards many, so maybe you should talk your own advice and be silent


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The point is EVERY married could NEEDS to plan and think ahead.
> 
> The fact you think neither is a requirement is one of the biggest problems with society today.
> 
> No one is ENTITLED to anything. Those that do not think ahead no plan their lives deserve what the get. If that means nothing, that was his choice.


knitpresentgifts
English please.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> BrattyPatty
> So sorry to have missed the Vacation with you lovely Ladies. I had a really nice time in Europe- even under the circumstances. Everything went as we had planned for long ago.
> 
> I have lots to tell.
> ...


We missed you and I am glad to hear from you. Yes the same old same old. Can't get rid of them. However we will keep posting our thoughts and ideas regardless.
Can't wait to hear about your European experiences.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> hate, hate , hate. Silence is golden


But maybe hate is the kindest four letter word you have used tonight. Your language should be a reason to ban you from this site


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But maybe hate is the kindest four letter word you have used tonight. Your language should be a reason to ban you from this site


Bite me. I am so sick of you trolls. Get a life away from mine.
Yarnie needs some posters in her thread. Go and visit her.
Harassment is also a cause to be banned from this site.Tell your buddies that.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Silence is the best reply to a fool.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry I'm so late with this, but I had to live my real life for a few hours. Still, I couldn't let this go by.


lovethelake said:


> Well like a lot of Dems he was an adulterer.


You mean such "Dems" as Senator David Vitter (R, Louisiana), who liked to wear diapers when at the establishment of the DC madame and her prostitutes? Or former Governor Mark Sanford (R,SC), who went to South America to visit his "good friend" (female) while telling his staff he was hiking the Appalachian Trail? Or former Senator John Ensign (R,Nevada), who forced himself on a staff worker and tried to bribe her and her husband to keep them from talking about it? Or the almost Speaker of the House Bob Livingston, who hounded Bill Clinton to resign until he himself (Livingston) had to resign because his adultery became publicly known? Or do you mean Congressman Henry Hyde (R, Illinois), who tried very hard to have Clinton impeached until his own adulterous affair became known.

The Democrats have no monopoly on adultery, and the Repugnicans have no monopoly on sainthood (though they act as if they do).


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> But maybe hate is the kindest four letter word you have used tonight. Your language should be a reason to ban you from this site


Shall I re-post what the animal posted?

Instead, anyone who wishes to see what BrattyPatty actually posted (not a copy/paste but the actual screen shot of her post), PM me your e-mail address.

You'll indeed see why the animal's silence is golden.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> jelun, marriage may not be a right in itself, but the freedom to choose who you marry is.


BrattyPatty
Not only do some want to prevent others from getting married, they want to dictate where we can get buried.

Some lamebrain here wanted to tell me where to put my husband to rest or it would not be a dignified burial.
Ever encountered such idiocy?
Well, well. Should I say more?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

For the ladies on the right who continue to torment us here is a message that was sent to me by a new poster on this thread. This is how she sees you KPG, Love the Lake, Joey. She has given me permission to post this in the hopes that you all will please stop tormenting us on this thread and leave. I don't know what sick perversion brings any of you to a place that you are not welcome. People are talking about you and it is not nice. Please if you have a shred of decency leave this thread and don't bother us. KPG you can go back and re post all my old posts like you have done before. Remember it only reflects badly on you and not me and you are only making yourself look foolish. No one in there right mind would carry on as you are doing. I will not fight with you and I know I have in the past but you are nothing more than a bad memory and I am done with all of you and only wish to interact with my friends and you are not my friend and I know you hate me. Good by


This is how others see you who are posting on this thread.

Look to whom they are fed-Shawn Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, the Republican House, to name only a few. My husband reads ALL the books written about Corporate America, Lobbyists, I can't think of much, but he is well rehearsed in what is going on. These ladies are believing what the upper crust feed them. They just really don't know anything. They watch Fox News. I can't watch that show even 5 minutes without getting angry. Most of Fox News isn't based on any truth. To me the worst of this is these people call themselves Christians and I just don't see Christianity in any of them. I see hate. They are holier than thou with little or no love for those less fortunate. I believe when we are much younger, we are being formed in how we fit in and view the world around us. Even in my own family this exists. Most of my living family is Republican. They admire people like Michelle Bachmann and Mitt Romney. I think the Republicans now remind me of those who persecuted Jesus. They have something deeply wrong inside. They are not normal. They are fed lies and they believe them. I just don't get it. I never will get it, because I don't have that in me and neither do you. Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be first. I think he meant those who struggled will be first. I see Jesus as a man filled with love, not a man who will get you at Heaven's Door. God is Love. I do so want to love these ladies, but they aren't lovable; however, John Lewis is much more Christ like and that's why I love the man.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Silence from that animal is indeed golden.


IGNORE


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> English please.


I stopped looking at KPG's messages a few days ago but accidentally caught this one. Not only do her messages have no content (as I told her then, and she immediately used my words on someone else), they have no grammar, either. Her spelling's not all that bad, though.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> BrattyPatty
> Not only do some want to prevent others from getting married, they want to dictate where we can get buried.
> 
> Some lamebrain here wanted to tell me where to put my husband to rest or it would not be a dignified burial.
> ...


It's the beast, Ingried. It can't help but follow us around with it's deciples. Smell the brimstone? That would be the Beast. It has been asked to leave nicely several times but refuses to do so. I guess it can't get through 1 day without harrassing somebody.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry I'm so late with this, but I had to live my real life for a few hours. Still, I couldn't let this go by.You mean such "Dems" as Senator David Vitter (R, Louisiana), who liked to wear diapers when at the establishment of the DC madame and her prostitutes? Or former Governor Mark Sanford (R,SC), who went to South America to visit his "good friend" (female) while telling his staff he was hiking the Appalachian Trail? Or former Senator John Ensign (R,Nevada), who forced himself on a staff worker and tried to bribe her and her husband to keep them from talking about it? Or the almost Speaker of the House Bob Livingston, who hounded Bill Clinton to resign until he himself (Livingston) had to resign because his adultery became publicly known? Or do you mean Congressman Henry Hyde (R, Illinois), who tried very hard to have Clinton impeached until his own adulterous affair became known.
> 
> The Democrats have no monopoly on adultery, and the Repugnicans have no monopoly on sainthood (though they act as if they do).


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bite me. I am so sick of you trolls. Get a life away from mine.
> Yarnie needs some posters in her thread. Go and visit her.
> Harassment is also a cause to be banned from this site.Tell your buddies that.


tsk tsk


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Will there ever be a thread where peaceful discussion can take place?
This hijacking is getting old.
And it is the same people playing dirty.
Boredom must be a constant in their Life.
Reading has never been on their schedule.
They are all repeating the SOS of misinformation.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I stopped looking at KPG's messages a few days ago but accidentally caught this one. Not only do her messages have no content (as I told her then, and she immediately used my words on someone else), they have no grammar, either. Her spelling's not all that bad, though.


Thank you Sister Purl for the grammar lesson. But maybe you should lecture BP about her swearing and horrible language.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Thank you Sister Purl for the grammar lesson. But maybe you should lecture CB about her swearing and horrible language.


Cheeky Blighter did not swear at anybody. Get your facts straight, harpie.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky Blighter did not swear at anybody. Get your facts straight, harpie.


I know, I just corrected my post. I apologize for the mistake.

But your name calling is just crass


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Will there ever be a thread where peaceful discussion can take place?
> This hijacking is getting old.
> And it is the same people playing dirty.
> Boredom must be a constant in their Life.
> ...


Indeed they are. Don't know why they are in this thread as it is titled POV Liberal. I guess it's just to harrass and nothing more.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I know, I just corrected my post. I apologize for the mistake.
> 
> But your name calling is just crass


Your attitude is crass! Yarnie is calling you. Better get going!
You corrected your post as I did earlier.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Shall I re-post what the animal posted?
> 
> Instead, anyone who wishes to see what BrattyPatty actually posted (not a copy/paste but the actual screen shot of her post), PM me your e-mail address.
> 
> You'll indeed see why the animal's silence is golden.


You really are nuts if you think people would give a psycho like you their email addresses. Keep reaching! How are those make believe kids and grandkids of yours doing, Beastie?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> That is not true. It depends on what state you live in. There are a few states that are marital property states. The marital property will go to the other spouse automatically. They can also have sole property, such as an inheritance, where the funds have not been mingled with marital property.
> 
> In the other states, it will depend on how the property is titled.
> 
> ...


Yep - but they think they do not have to plan. So I say let them wallow in their self-pity and let the government take from them what they want and can legally as the idiots chose not to plan or think ahead.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think this person is an adult, I would also think if she wants to make a statement about me she should be able to post under her own faux name. otherwise it is just lily or conan.
> 
> If I see someone making a statement that I think is wrong I will correct it and explain why it is wrong, It would be nice if those on the left that disagree with one of my statements could explain rater than say "garbage, lies, ignore, or cockoo." Those answers are very childish.
> 
> I will continue to post as I wish.


That's okay,joey. See y'all later in D&P :twisted:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Sister Pearl; But maybe you should lecture BP about her swearing and horrible language.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I know, I just corrected my post. I apologize for the mistake.
> 
> But your name calling is just crass


Did you see the animal's post that I sent you?

Crass doesn't cover it.

Pray for her granddaughter and her entire family to keep them safe and from her wrath and harm and evil spirit.

My pets have more sense and class.


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## bcdado (May 27, 2013)

OK ladies - I guess this just proves that no matter how different our political views are, we all have something in common. A love of knitting I would think since we all belong to this group. Also, we probably all love our children, our doggies and kitties, and our gardens. So I don't understand why when what is posted is so upsetting to some of us that it necessitates constant name-calling and heckling, that those few would choose to remain and annoy everyone else. Really, find YOUR place and you will be so much happier and so will the rest of us.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Did you see the animal's post that I sent you?
> 
> Crass doesn't cover it.
> 
> ...


Save your prayers for yourself. You definitely need them, Beastie. Ask your buddies on DP to pray for you and your miserable empty life. 
I am not the first person on earth to lose it with you, nor am I the first who had the lowlife likes of you push them to it.
Now run along. We have important things to discuss in here.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think that you have me confused with someone else. So far as I am concerned whatever happens between two (or more) consenting adults works AND is a right.



BrattyPatty said:


> jelun, marriage may not be a right in itself, but the freedom to choose who you marry is.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I think that you have me confused with someone else. So far as I am concerned whatever happens between two (or more) consenting adults works AND is a right.


LOL maybe I do! Come to think of it, freedom to choose your partner for life, does make marriage a right.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Did you see the animal's post that I sent you?
> 
> Crass doesn't cover it.
> 
> ...


I own it! Go ahead and post it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I wasn't going to, but WTF...
The case, you raving loon, was FEDERAL, the IRS is a FEDERAL agency. FEDERAL taxes are not about what states regulate on the state level. 
This case was about the first spouse passing which partially determines rights. 
The key phrase was "don't have to" if a person dies intestate there is a formula for determining the disposition of the estate. 
It has absolutely nothing to do with woulda shoulda coulda.



joeysomma said:


> That is not true. It depends on what state you live in. There are a few states that are marital property states. The marital property will go to the other spouse automatically. They can also have sole property, such as an inheritance, where the funds have not been mingled with marital property.
> 
> In the other states, it will depend on how the property is titled.
> 
> ...


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

NJG said:


> My niece, living in Ohio has a teen age son in high school. He came home and said he thought his history teacher might be racist. He came home with notes from class explaining what history was and the part people play in history.
> She listed different types of people, including citizens, non citizens, voters, registered voters, undocumented aliens, aliens, ******** (and she turned to the class and said "you all know what these are"), nuns, Hell's Angels motorcycle gang members, Amish, Indians, teenagers, toddlers, and "seniors". Don't know why seniors was in quotations, but maybe more info to come on that. My niece did talk to the principal and the teacher did apologize if she offended anyone, but then carried on talking about Mexicans and other minorities as if nothing had happened. I am sure there will be more to follow. My niece will not let it rest if the teacher continues to use that kind of language. I hate it when someone uses aliens instead of immigrants, let alone using ********.


I never think of alien as being a negative, that is what my Registered Resident Card use to read, not immigrant,I think immigrant is taken for granted. Anyways as a card carrier I am not offended . It is a privilege to live in my adopted country, I got here the legal, long time , money spent way and have worked and paid taxes for 44 years, raised 2 American sons with an appreciation for my heritage. Name calling is awful, but it is usually coined by actions taken. I do not mind being called a Canuck either, as I have said on this forum before, Yankee is a term of endearment for me . It does not designate North and South in Canada, it was those wonderful soldiers heading to Europe! If anything is offensive to a person they should speak up and be respected. A lot of terms are not used anymore so hope more follow into oblivion. But I just saw a post using old white men and I think someone could construe that as offensive, possibly me if I was that sensitive. My Dad served 23 years as a Municipal Councilor, he was old, he was great at the job and he was white. Most people do not speak to deliberately offend, the lines have just become so blurred as to what each individual takes to task. Just being considerate puts an end to most mis- speaks, or chose your topic wisely!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am sorry if you were offended by "old white men" however that is what Congress was pretty much at the time that DOMA was passed into law. It may have become a bit younger recently. A lot of these angry white guys who are now in public service seem to be younger. 
If you have a more accurate description of the American Congress let me know and I will take it under consideration.



Montana Gramma said:


> I never think of alien as being a negative, that is what my Registered Resident Card use to read, not immigrant,I think immigrant is taken for granted. Anyways as a card carrier I am not offended . It is a privilege to live in my adopted country, I got here the legal, long time , money spent way and have worked and paid taxes for 44 years, raised 2 American sons with an appreciation for my heritage. Name calling is awful, but it is usually coined by actions taken. I do not mind being called a Canuck either, as I have said on this forum before, Yankee is a term of endearment for me . It does not designate North and South in Canada, it was those wonderful soldiers heading to Europe! If anything is offensive to a person they should speak up and be respected. A lot of terms are not used anymore so hope more follow into oblivion. But I just saw a post using old white men and I think someone could construe that as offensive, possibly me if I was that sensitive. My Dad served 23 years as a Municipal Councilor, he was old, he was great at the job and he was white. Most people do not speak to deliberately offend, the lines have just become so blurred as to what each individual takes to task. Just being considerate puts an end to most mis- speaks, or chose your topic wisely!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Don't ask me why since I know that you are just playing a game. Someone out there might actually benefit from the information. 
This woman, the surviving spouse, is VERY well off. The couple, one of whom died necessitating the suit, had done estate planning based on the fact that they were a married couple. 
This married couple were one of the first in Mass. They knew that they would likely be a test case for DOMA. 
DOMA, the FEDERAL law, has been overturned as unconstitutional.



joeysomma said:


> FYI: You have to consider both the state and federal rules in an estate. The state will determine how the property is distributed after a person dies. The federal will determine how it is taxed according to the paper work that is done in the state.
> Also the state will take their share if you have state taxes.
> 
> You are so welcome
> ...


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## Marilyn40 (Aug 15, 2011)

Can someone tell me why there is a Black National Anthem? Does that mean the Star Spangled Banner is the White National Anthem? So much for togetherness. I do not care how nice the song is, we can not have two National Anthems and expect to come together as one nation. Please help me understand this disparity. Marilyn40


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Marilyn40 said:


> Can someone tell me why there is a Black National Anthem? Does that mean the Star Spangled Banner is the White National Anthem? So much for togetherness. I do not care how nice the song is, we can not have two National Anthems and expect to come together as one nation. Please help me understand this disparity. Marilyn40


Here is a little history about the song, Marilyn. It was written in post civil war- pre-civil rights era. No, it is not just a white anthem. The Star Bangled Banner is for all Americans. 
The poem/song was written because even though African Americans were born actual citizens of the USA they were not accepted into the white society and had very little civil rights at the time.

Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing - often called "The Black National Anthem" - was written as a poem by James Weldon Johnson (1871-1938) and then set to music by his brother John Rosamond Johnson (1873-1954) in 1899. It was first performed in public in the Johnsons' hometown of Jacksonville, Florida as part of a celebration of Lincoln's Birthday on February 12, 1900 by a choir of 500 schoolchildren at the segregated Stanton School, where James Weldon Johnson was principal.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I am sorry if you were offended by "old white men" however that is what Congress was pretty much at the time that DOMA was passed into law. It may have become a bit younger recently. A lot of these angry white guys who are now in public service seem to be younger.
> If you have a more accurate description of the American Congress let me know and I will take it under consideration.


As I said , if I was that sensitive , I could take offense, I do not. I was trying to point out that that was a judgement too, as is angry white guys, and that is what was supposedly trying to be avoided in all the opening discussion. I see many races and ethnic backgrounds represented in the US Govt. and the military, service volunteer organizations and the list goes on. Yes there are a lot of younger new Senators etc. They may take offense,but only likely being called old! Most seem like they are past race dictating their life. Amen to that. My description of Congress is, a body of Govt. voted in by a body of people hoping for the best from them, to an often thankless and unappreciated job, by the unprepared, soon to be disillusioned but thankfully still trying in most cases to do what they'd think is right! After posting I read back a few pages and was appalled at the name calling and characterizing being done. As for me, I am sticking to the knitting and crocheting of KP , in the future. Thankyou for re-posting and being so polite.


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## Marilyn40 (Aug 15, 2011)

Thanks BP for your explanation of the two songs. I did know about Francis Scott Key and the words he wrote for our National Anthem. I did not know anything about the Black National Anthem until this thread. My point is, we must be a unified country of all races, creeds, sexual orientation people, etc. American should be about Unity first and diversity second. Lincoln said it best, "A house divided against itself, can not stand." Marilyn40


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The problem is that so long as the play is bilateral, the admin is going to see it as tit for tat. 
So long as people to respond to the harassment admin won't do a thing. 
There are two reasons to ignore this crap. 
1. It is proven behavior management technique that a. giving a different response elicits a different reaction b. the way to eliminate a behavior is to ignore it. 
2. in order to put these people it has been said should disappear in a position to be "disappeared" the interplay must end.



BrattyPatty said:


> Bite me. I am so sick of you trolls. Get a life away from mine.
> Yarnie needs some posters in her thread. Go and visit her.
> Harassment is also a cause to be banned from this site.Tell your buddies that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It isn't a judgment at all, it is fact. Please note the demographics. It is old white guys. The average age in the Senate is 62+.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/R41647.pdf

You are welcome, as is anyone, to utilize your own history to interpret the report. God bless.



Montana Gramma said:


> As I said , if I was that sensitive , I could take offense, I do not. I was trying to point out that that was a judgement too, as is angry white guys, and that is what was supposedly trying to be avoided in all the opening discussion. I see many races and ethnic backgrounds represented in the US Govt. and the military, service volunteer organizations and the list goes on. Yes there are a lot of younger new Senators etc. They may take offense,but only likely being called old! Most seem like they are past race dictating their life. Amen to that. My description of Congress is, a body of Govt. voted in by a body of people hoping for the best from them, to an often thankless and unappreciated job, by the unprepared, soon to be disillusioned but thankfully still trying in most cases to do what they'd think is right! After posting I read back a few pages and was appalled at the name calling and characterizing being done. As for me, I am sticking to the knitting and crocheting of KP , in the future. Thankyou for re-posting and being so polite.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Cheeky and friends. Good news: I found the new thread and I'm so glad to see it. Bad news: KPG is grumbling about this on other threads already. Just fyi. Sure you know already.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Most likely everyone in the class would laugh because there is no proof that anything in the Bible is true. The Bible is not meant to be accepted literally any more than "Little Red Riding Hood" is about a wolf eating a grandmother.
> Parables are used to educate just like fairy tales and fables.


jelun2
You and I are on the same page and so is an ever increasing number of young People all over Europe.
I just returned from there and even though that trend is not new, the numbers are increasing rapidly.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm proud we have a black President. I'm ashamed it's taken 50 years and there is still too much strife. I believe that history will declare President Barack Obama to be an intelligent, courageous president. It will still some of the criticism from the far right. Let freedom ring.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm proud we have a black President. I'm ashamed it's taken 50 years and there is still too much strife. I believe that history will declare President Barack Obama to be an intelligent, courageous president. It will still some of the criticism from the far right. Let freedom ring.


Did you see the write up on this RWN?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/28/david-marsters-maine-facebook_n_3832313.html


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Your explanation removes the 'sting' from black vs white National Anthem. We must all understand. Then freedom will ring for all.



BrattyPatty said:


> Here is a little history about the song, Marilyn. It was written in post civil war- pre-civil rights era. No, it is not just a white anthem. The Star Bangled Banner is for all Americans.
> The poem/song was written because even though African Americans were born actual citizens of the USA they were not accepted into the white society and had very little civil rights at the time.
> 
> Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing - often called "The Black National Anthem" - was written as a poem by James Weldon Johnson (1871-1938) and then set to music by his brother John Rosamond Johnson (1873-1954) in 1899. It was first performed in public in the Johnsons' hometown of Jacksonville, Florida as part of a celebration of Lincoln's Birthday on February 12, 1900 by a choir of 500 schoolchildren at the segregated Stanton School, where James Weldon Johnson was principal.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is not the place to announce your professional specialties.



joeysomma said:


> Please give the web site that explains her situation and how she was taxed.
> I am explaining how estate taxes can be postponed. If my explanation helped someone or made you think about planning your estate. Please put a note here or PM me. Failure to plan will cause you children or heirs a lot of grief.
> 
> For the one who thinks I am a raving loon: I prepare taxes, two of my specialties are estates and real estate.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would hope that representation will occur in equal percentages.....like women 51%. Wouldn't that be grand?



jelun2 said:


> It isn't a judgment at all, it is fact. Please note the demographics. It is old white guys. The average age in the Senate is 62+.
> 
> http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/R41647.pdf
> 
> You are welcome, as is anyone, to utilize your own history to interpret the report. God bless.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is a little history about the song, Marilyn. It was written in post civil war- pre-civil rights era. No, it is not just a white anthem. The Star Bangled Banner is for all Americans.
> The poem/song was written because even though African Americans were born actual citizens of the USA they were not accepted into the white society and had very little civil rights at the time.
> 
> Lift Ev'ry Voice and Sing - often called "The Black National Anthem" - was written as a poem by James Weldon Johnson (1871-1938) and then set to music by his brother John Rosamond Johnson (1873-1954) in 1899. It was first performed in public in the Johnsons' hometown of Jacksonville, Florida as part of a celebration of Lincoln's Birthday on February 12, 1900 by a choir of 500 schoolchildren at the segregated Stanton School, where James Weldon Johnson was principal.


Here are the lyrics to "Lift Every Voice and Sing"

Lift every voice and sing, till earth and Heaven ring,
Ring with the harmonies of liberty;
Let our rejoicing rise, high as the listening skies,
Let it resound loud as the rolling sea.
Sing a song full of the faith that the dark past has taught us,
Sing a song full of the hope that the present has brought us;
Facing the rising sun of our new day begun,
Let us march on till victory is won.

Stony the road we trod, bitter the chastening rod,
Felt in the days when hope unborn had died;
Yet with a steady beat, have not our weary feet
Come to the place for which our fathers sighed?
We have come over a way that with tears has been watered;
We have come, treading our path through the blood of the slaughtered;
Out from the gloomy past, till now we stand at last
Where the white gleam of our bright star is cast.

God of our weary years, God of our silent tears,
Thou Who hast brought us thus far on the way;
Thou Who hast by Thy might, led us into the light,
Keep us forever in the path, we pray.
Lest our feet stray from the places, our God, where we met Thee.
Lest our hearts, drunk with the wine of the world, we forget Thee.
Shadowed beneath Thy hand, may we forever stand,
True to our God, true to our native land.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ooops,  , duplicate post.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's okay,joey. See y'all later in D&P :twisted:


BrattyPatty
D&P as I view it now is the Commune of the Pit Bulls and Ankle Biters who keep following some people endlessly with their nasty snarls and bites.
They need to be fenced in.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm feeling queasy. I imagine the threats the President and his family have to face.



jelun2 said:


> Did you see the write up on this RWN?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/28/david-marsters-maine-facebook_n_3832313.html


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> BrattyPatty
> D&P as I view it now is the Commune of the Pit Bulls and Ankle Biters who keep following some people endlessly with their nasty snarls and bites.
> They need to be fenced in.


I call it the Snake Pit, Ingried, with the head serpent KPG goading them on.
They need to be sedated!
They call us" wolves." My only response to that is if you are going up against a "wolf" you better learn to howl and not run back to other threads peeing and whining like a little puppy.
And they proved a point we have been making all along. They can't stay away from us!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Marilyn40 said:


> Thanks BP for your explanation of the two songs. I did know about Francis Scott Key and the words he wrote for our National Anthem. I did not know anything about the Black National Anthem until this thread. My point is, we must be a unified country of all races, creeds, sexual orientation people, etc. American should be about Unity first and diversity second. Lincoln said it best, "A house divided against itself, can not stand." Marilyn40


We're working on it, Marilyn!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky asked me for lyrics of songs of the Civil War era and the Civil Rights Mpvement.There are many more well known songs from the Civil Rights Movement than this, but Bob Dylan sang this at the podium while standing next to Dr. King on August 28, 1963.

Only a Pawn in Their Game by Bob Dylan

A bullet from the back of a bush took Medgar Evers blood
A finger fired the trigger to his name, a handle hid out in the dark
A hand set the spark two eyes took the aim, behind a mans brain
But he cant be blamed
Hes only a pawn in their game

A South politician preaches to the poor white man
You got more than the blacks, dont complain.
Youre better than them, you been born with white skin, they explain.
And the *****s name is used, it is plain, or the politicians gain
As he rises to fame and the poor white remains, on the caboose of the train
But it aint him to blame
Hes only a pawn in their game

The deputy sheriffs, the soldiers, the governors get paid
And the marshals and cops get the same
But the poor white mans used in the hands of them all like a tool
Hes taught in his school from the start by the rule
That the laws are with himto protect his white skin
To keep up his hate so he never thinks straight bout the shape that hes in
But it aint him to blame
Hes only a pawn in their game

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks
And the hoofbeats pound in his brain and hes taught how to walk in a pack
Shoot in the back with his fist in a clinch, to hang and to lynch
To hide neath the hood, to kill with no pain
Like a dog on a chain he aint got no name
But it aint him to blame
Hes only a pawn in their game.

Today, Medgar Evers was buried from the bullet he caught
They lowered him down as a king
But when the shadowy sun sets on the one that fired the gun
Hell see by his grave on the stone that remains
Carved next to his name
His epitaph plain:
Only a pawn in their game


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel the need to extend a warning to all. 

It's easy to assume everyone here on KP is a friend. The truth of the matter is the Internet brings strangers together. Don't assume anyone is who the say they are. There are mentally ill people with their own agendas. 

Take time to get to know one another, and never ever disclose any piece of information about yourself until you've developed a trusting relationship. Never post identifying information at large. Rather disclose your email address, for example, in a PM.

Many of us have regretted naïve things we've said. For instance trolls have been known to read through thousands of old posts trying to find information with which they can stalk us. 

I have been a member for over one year. I can honestly say I have found dear friends I treasure, but also frightening folks. I'm still an optimist. I believe all people are created equal. I choose generosity over caution. And my knitting has improved vastly. 

Welcome to this site .


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Thanks for sharing that, MIB. I can just hear him singing that. I am a die hard Dylan fan.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I feel the need to extend a warning to all.
> 
> It's easy to assume everyone here on KP is a friend. The truth of the matter is the Internet brings strangers together. Don't assume anyone is who the say they are.
> 
> ...


Very good advice, damemary!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks MIB. These words are very powerful. They make you think.....which is the mark of the artist.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky asked me for lyrics of songs of the Civil War era and the Civil Rights Mpvement.There are many more well known songs from the Civil Rights Movement than this, but Bob Dylan sang this at the podium while standing next to Dr. King on August 28, 1963.
> 
> Only a Pawn in Their Game by Bob Dylan
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm turning in early. Sweet dreams to all. Hope to see you all tomorrow. Bazinga.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I would think this person is an adult, I would also think if she wants to make a statement about me she should be able to post under her own faux name. otherwise it is just lily or conan.
> 
> If I see someone making a statement that I think is wrong I will correct it and explain why it is wrong, It would be nice if those on the left that disagree with one of my statements could explain rather than say "garbage, lies, ignore, or cockoo." Those answers are very childish.
> 
> I will continue to post as I wish.


There are plenty of people on D&P that are in dire need of your help and correction, Joey. Why don't you show some kindness and go minister to your friends. Squat if you must and please refrain from "correcting" my friends they don't need or want any help from you. Read only and please don't post. Maybe you can explain to us why anyone in their right mind would stay someplace they know they are not wanted when they have so many other places they can post.

Sorry Joey I don't have to make things up what I posted was from someone who described you perfectly. Her words not mine. She remains unnamed because she believes KPG is the devil incarnate and doesn't want the hound from hell running after her. You really should think about the company you keep as it says a lot about you.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks for sharing that, MIB. I can just hear him singing that. I am a die hard Dylan fan.


I don't remember (having a senior moment...) if this song was sung very often during the Civil Rights Movement, but Billy Holliday was one VERY brave person to sing this at all. It still gives me chills when I hear it.

Strange Fruit as sung by Billy Holliday 
Songwriters: Damon Frost and Aaron Phiri

Southern trees bear strange fruit
Blood on the leaves and blood at the root
Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze
Strange fruit hanging from the popular trees

Pastoral scene of the gallant south
The bulging eyes and the twisted mouth
Scent of magnolias, sweet and fresh
Then the sudden smell of burning flesh

Here is fruit for the crows to pluck
For the rain to gather, for the wind to suck
For the sun to rot, for the trees to drop
Here is a strange and bitter crop

I think I've been addicted to Dylan since "Freewheelin'" came out. He's one of American's greatest poets.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks MIB. Love your choice. Very appropriate. Keep them coming.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

I hope everyone received my e-mail of the animal's vulgar post that requested it.

If not, please PM me again.

Best,
KPG


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, you don't know what floodgates you've opened by asking for some song lyrics. I'll try not to get too carried away. This an old hymn, not a Civil Rights song, but I love it and I think it says very well what songs of the Civil Rights Movement said in different ways. It's from an Af­ri­can-Amer­i­can spir­it­u­al, ar­ranged by Har­ry T. Bur­leigh (1866-1949). 

Perhaps it will speak more meaningfully to some of our Christian friends. Not to get too sappy, but I deeply believe we are all children of one Father, we're all brothers and sisters, and that we are made in God's image which must be very complex given how different some of us are from each other. 

In Christ There is No East or West

In Christ there is no East or West,
In Him no South or North;
But one great fellowship of love
Throughout the whole wide earth.

In Him shall true hearts everywhere
Their high communion find;
His service is the golden cord,
Close binding humankind.

Join hands, then, members of the faith,
Whatever your race may be!
Who serves my Father as His child
Is surely kin to me.

In Christ now meet both East and West,
In Him meet North and South;
All Christly souls are one in Him
Throughout the whole wide earth.

Bazinga for now. Gotta get some sleep.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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## Marilyn40 (Aug 15, 2011)

DameMary, I agree with you, "I'm still an optimist. I believe all people are created equal. I choose generosity over caution. And my knitting has improved vastly." Thanks to all the wonderful KP'ers for words of wisdom and for the practical knitting knowledge you have shared. Marilyn40


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I will comment as I please. I have not used any derogatory words nor have I called anyone a name. Your problem seems to be that I am a Bible believing born-again Christian Conservative.


Now you sound like a 12 year old little girl Joey. "I will comment as I please." Really? I could care less what you believe. Why do you bother us with that information? You should ask yourself why no one believes you. Perhaps you profess to all that you are a jack of all trades and come across as a pushy know it all and when push comes to shove you really aren't believable. Those are your words not mine. Why do you care what any of us think of you? You must be very insecure if you think so little of yourself and I feel sorry for you if that is the case. I don't know what you are proving by being out here. Is it just because you can? There again such child like impertinence. I see you as a little girl with her lower lip stuck way out. Distance yourself from KPG, Joey and believe in yourself and then maybe others will not doubt you and take you seriously.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Marilyn40 said:


> DameMary, I agree with you, "I'm still an optimist. I believe all people are created equal. I choose generosity over caution. And my knitting has improved vastly." Thanks to all the wonderful KP'ers for words of wisdom and for the practical knitting knowledge you have shared. Marilyn40


Welcome Marilyn - I hope you will join us regularly on this thread. It's good too see you.


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## Marilyn40 (Aug 15, 2011)

CB. Thanks so much for your Welcome. I love all LIBERAL leaning stuff! And it is not always easy to find liberal information,contrary to what others think. Keep up the good work and fascinating exchanges. Marilyn40


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, you don't know what floodgates you've opened by asking for some song lyrics. I'll try not to get too carried away. This an old hymn, not a Civil Rights song, but I love it and I think it says very well what songs of the Civil Rights Movement said in different ways. It's from an Af­ri­can-Amer­i­can spir­it­u­al, ar­ranged by Har­ry T. Bur­leigh (1866-1949).
> 
> Perhaps it will speak more meaningfully to some of our Christian friends. Not to get too sappy, but I deeply believe we are all children of one Father, we're all brothers and sisters, and that we are made in God's image which must be very complex given how different some of us are from each other.
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, I didn't understand what "Strange Fruit" was about at first, but when I did I was horrified. Please do post some pictures of some lynchings, ahd don't forget Ida B. Wells, a contemporary of W.E.B DuBois and the greatest fighter against lynching in her day. Here's a picture of her.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

One more by Dylan. 
No more auction block for me

No more auction block for me
No more, no more
No more auction block for me
Many thousands gone

No more driver's lash for me
No more, no more
No more driver's lash for me
Many thousands gone

No more whip lash for me
No more, no more
No more pint of salt for me
Many thousands gone

No more auction block for me
No more, no more
No more auction block for me
Many thousands gone


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope everyone received my e-mail of the animal's vulgar post that requested it.
> 
> If not, please PM me again.
> 
> ...


Do you really think I am falling for that, KPG? What sane person would send you their email address not knowing you. Especially the people who read your posts wouldn't dare venture there. And I don't believe a word you say about the screen shot. It wasn't up long enough. So take your 'wounds' and go whine to somebody who cares. We certainly don't. rat-a-tat. As a matter of fact I have received a few PM's applauding what I said to you saying it was about time. 
Deal with it.
I doubt you got any email addresses at all. Cut the crap.
Go back to D&P where you are at least* half way* tolerated.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Marilyn40 said:


> CB. Thanks so much for your Welcome. I love all LIBERAL leaning stuff! And it is not always easy to find liberal information,contrary to what others think. Keep up the good work and fascinating exchanges. Marilyn40


I first voted the year the law changed so that 18 yr.-olds could vote, and I registered as an Independent, not wanting to be tied to a particular party. Over the years I have voted both ways, depending on the issue/candidate. Some things I agree with conservatives about, others I agree with liberals.

However, in recent years the right wing seems to have lost its mind. It is getting ever more intolerant and intractable. Even the merest whiff of tolerance or cooperation by one of its members is met with cries of "not conservative enough" and attempts to get rid of that person. And in the past two years they have become downright scary in their attempts to control the country. I will not be voting for a Republican in any capacity until the loons lose their grip and the party swings back from the brink. Just can't do it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I first voted the year the law changed so that 18 yr.-olds could vote, and I registered as an Independent, not wanting to be tied to a particular party. Over the years I have voted both ways, depending on the issue/candidate. Some things I agree with conservatives about, others I agree with liberals.
> 
> However, in recent years the right wing seems to have lost its mind. It is getting ever more intolerant and intractable. Even the merest whiff of tolerance or cooperation by one of its members is met with cries of "not conservative enough" and attempts to get rid of that person. And in the past two years they have become downright scary in their attempts to control the country. I will not be voting for a Republican in any capacity until the loons lose their grip and the party swings back from the brink. Just can't do it.


Amen to that, Sister! I wonder how many fed up Republicans will switch over to Independant or Democrat.
It should be quite a number.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

LizAnne said:


> It is sad to me that these threads have to turn to judgement and criticism. The best way to further Martin Luthur King's cause is by being loving and showing respect. The put downs don't help one bit. They just sound like Jr. High School girls who can't get along. If you are a Christian, then you aren't setting a good example for me or others. You can spot a loving and caring person by their deeds not their words.


I think it so sad that this site has been invaded by the pre teenage girls who love throwing hissy fits and then defend their ranting by saying that they alone are true christians and they alone will be saved. So sad, so juvenile. They know who they are.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope everyone received my e-mail of the animal's vulgar post that requested it.
> 
> If not, please PM me again.
> 
> ...


Is it really necessary to be so nasty?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am not sure how anyone could find that song divisive, first due to the religious overtones and second because unlike the official national anthem it is actually a description of years past and hope for the future not just one incident. 
I believe it is lovely and renditions in real time will bring tears to your eyes.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Here are the lyrics to "Lift Every Voice and Sing"
> 
> Lift every voice and sing, till earth and Heaven ring,
> Ring with the harmonies of liberty;
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That was one of the major reasons I could not bring myself to full on support the president in his first run. The idea of him being assassinated makes me teary eyed. 
It does occur to me, though, that the folks who honestly believe that Libs think he is the messiah would fear making a martyr of him. Right Wing Nutism may just save his life.



damemary said:


> I'm feeling queasy. I imagine the threats the President and his family have to face.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Heck, we still haven't had a Jewish president or a woman, we pretty much get stuck with mature, middle of the road, well connected campaigners. 
American people wouldn't elect anyone else.

Can't you just see the electorate if these folks who know so many more secrets than we do came out and told us the truth?
If President Obama had realized ahead of time just how bad the obstructionism would be from the right and shared that with us?

If people had known that the GOP would be foolish enough to suck up the Tea Party instead of just letting it die a slow death they and we would be so much better off. 
I almost feel sorry for John Boehner at times. It's like herding cats to get those anti-everything people to govern.



damemary said:


> I'm proud we have a black President. I'm ashamed it's taken 50 years and there is still too much strife. I believe that history will declare President Barack Obama to be an intelligent, courageous president. It will still some of the criticism from the far right. Let freedom ring.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am sure we are like thinkers on many subjects.



Ingried said:


> jelun2
> You and I are on the same page and so is an ever increasing number of young People all over Europe.
> I just returned from there and even though that trend is not new, the numbers are increasing rapidly.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Could I just request that if you are going to post pics of lynchings that you do it by link to websites rather than embedding. 
I have absolutely no desire to see another picture of a lynching for the rest of my life. 
Thanks.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I didn't understand what "Strange Fruit" was about at first, but when I did I was horrified. Please do post some pictures of some lynchings, ahd don't forget Ida B. Wells, a contemporary of W.E.B DuBois and the greatest fighter against lynching in her day. Here's a picture of her.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Here are the lyrics to "Lift Every Voice and Sing"


Thanks for printing the lyrics, Maid. They're beautiful, aren't they? Makes me realize just how ridiculous the rightie notion that African-Americans can pray their way out of their difficulties is...The fact is that African-Americans, by in large, DO take religion very seriously indeed. Statistically 87% are affiliated with a particular religion (as opposed to 83% of Americans overall). Moreover, for 79% religion is "very important in their lives" (56% for the general public).
The African-American community is, by in large, a devout and God-centered community. As jelun said earlier, prayer obviously is not going to put a roof over one's head or food on the table.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Could I just request that if you are going to post pics of lynchings that you do it by link to websites rather than embedding.
> I have absolutely no desire to see another picture of a lynching for the rest of my life.
> Thanks.


I agree there, jelun. Pictures can stay with you forever...I've seen some of lynchings and other atrocities that, quite honestly, I wish I could burn out of my brain cells.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I feel the need to extend a warning to all.
> It's easy to assume everyone here on KP is a friend. The truth of the matter is the Internet brings strangers together. Don't assume anyone is who the say they are. There are mentally ill people with their own agendas.
> Take time to get to know one another, and never ever disclose any piece of information about yourself until you've developed a trusting relationship. Never post identifying information at large. Rather disclose your email address, for example, in a PM.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the welcome and special thanks for your excellent advice. I made the mistake once of being too trusting here on KP and am still getting fallout from my error. Fortunately, my little problem is confined to KP only. I stick even harder to my rule that while I may have some friendly acquaintances on KP, it takes face-to-face contact over a period of time for me to make a real friend.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I will comment as I please. I have not used any derogatory words nor have I called anyone a name. Your problem seems to be that I am a Bible believing born-again Christian Conservative.


This is an open topic, and, of course, you have the freedom to comment whenever you want to. Even though you haven't used derogatory words, what you have to say doesn't fit the original purpose of this topic very well. I hope you will please stop posting here. If there is something anyone here can do to encourage that, please say so.

It may seem obvious, but what I've said applies to others who are filling this topic up with posts that would be more appropriate in some of the other so-called political topics.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That was one of the major reasons I could not bring myself to full on support the president in his first run. The idea of him being assassinated makes me teary eyed.
> It does occur to me, though, that the folks who honestly believe that Libs think he is the messiah would fear making a martyr of him. Right Wing Nutism may just save his life.


While I was listening to his speech yesterday, part of me was sure shots would ring out and our President would be assassinated. Paranoid, maybe, but I remember all of the assasinations in the 60's as if they happened yesterday. I worry that hatred will overcome fear of creating another martyr.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> While I was listening to his speech yesterday, part of me was sure shots would ring out and our President would be assassinated. Paranoid, maybe, but I remember all of the assasinations in the 60's as if they happened yesterday. I worry that hatred will overcome fear of creating another martyr.


I know--I've worried about that plenty myself. Happily I think the Secret Service is far more proactive than they used to be. I read yesterday that they paid a surprise visit to a man who wrote "Shoot the n-----" on his Facebook wall. Bravo! They were really on the ball, as they should be. Talk like that isn't acceptable.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Is it really necessary to be so nasty?


You'll have to ask that of BrattyPatty as she is the person who posted the vulgar words.

Here's my words captured in a screen shot (note the time if you wish to go back and confirm); I have cropped off BP's response. I have heard privately from many who are often offended by her, but by that post yesterday in particular. I assume you were as well if you saw it.

Decide for yourself who is so nasty.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Lest we forget about lynchings, here are a couple of reminders.


*sigh*
Well, since you posted them I'll comment...actually I can't as these pictures speak for themselves. Truly the stuff of nightmares, in particular the calm placid faces of the spectators. Even "animals" is too kind a word for folks who'd stand by and watch this happen.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm sorry the lynching pictures hurt some of you. That was not my intention. I posted them because I felt some people who are posting here needed a sharp reminder of the past. lynchings are a very real part of our history.

I will leave the pictures up a little while longer a very little while) and then delete them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh*
> Well, since you posted them I'll comment...actually I can't as these pictures speak for themselves. Truly the stuff of nightmares, in particular the calm placid faces of the spectators. Even "animals" is too kind a word for folks who'd stand by and watch this happen.


Yes, this is the "Strange Fruit" that the haunting song by the same name was written about. Unfortunately, this horrible activity continued well into the middle of the the 1950's to 1960's. The slaves may have been imancipated by President Lincoln on January 1, 1863 but Blacks were far from safe and free and the struggle for civil rights for all Americans continues on to this day. I know some of you requested these images not be posted but only a link provided but MIB was not aware of that request and I apologize to you for that and I hope it will not discourage you from visiting this thread. We must never forget that these terrible acts were committed in our beloved country by our own citizens. I have never witnessed such a spectacle but I have friends my age who are from the south who did see such things like this as children and I have been told once you see such a thing it is forever etched in your memory. Even the photos are the things of nightmares. It was a common practice to photograph these gruesome acts, make a sell postcards of them and they were mailed to others predominantly across the south in an effort to terrify and intimidate black citizens.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I would suggest to those posters who believe we have usurped the occasion of the 50th Anniversary of Dr. King's speech to say anything false about what the more sordid history of our country has been start their on thread and they can present what they believe to be the "truth" of the Civil Right's Movement. It is necessary to go back to the beginning of our history and with that slavery in order to put the need for civil rights into it proper context and why so many sacrificed so much, even their own lives in some cases to give freedom to others.
To say it simply, please start another thread with your own take on this very important matter and hopefully in doing your research you will be able to discern the truth. We may have done some great things but we cannot ignore our seamy past and ever let such things happen again.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank goodness I came in this morning late enough to skip over those embedded images. I have to say I am disappointed that they were embedded after I specifically requested that they be linked. 
At least I know that I shouldn't look before "page" 22. 
I can't imagine that anyone who has seen any of those images ever needs to be reminded of the horror.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Can't delete pictures now. I just used "Report Issue" to ask Admin to delete the post with pictures of lynchings. I thought this would be the quickest way to get it done. 

In other circumstances I would have left the picture where they are. History is a hard teacher, and some people need hard lessons to learn anything.

Once again, I'm sorry those pictures hurt some of you.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

duplicate post


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I would suggest to those posters who believe we have usurped the occasion of the 50th Anniversary of Dr. King's speech to say anything false about what the more sordid history of our country has been start their on thread and they can present what they believe to be the "truth" of the Civil Right's Movement. It is necessary to go back to the beginning of our history and with that slavery in order to put the need for civil rights into it proper context and why so many sacrificed so much, even their own lives in some cases to give freedom to others.
> To say it simply, please start another thread with your own take on this very important matter and hopefully in doing your research you will be able to discern the truth. We may have done some great things but we cannot ignore our seamy past and ever let such things happen again.


Just getting around to reading this morning. The history aspect is very interesting to me! Let's keep it going.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You'll have to ask that of BrattyPatty as she is the person who posted the vulgar words.
> 
> Here's my words captured in a screen shot (note the time if you wish to go back and confirm); I have cropped off BP's response. I have heard privately from many who are often offended by her, but by that post yesterday in particular. I assume you were as well if you saw it.
> 
> Decide for yourself who is so nasty.


knitpresentgifts
She did NOT post that, YOU did.
Nastier than ever you have become.
Your personal problems must be multiplying by double digits.
Has all of your Family deserted you and you are looking for contact anywhere and everywhere and you do not care in which form you call attention to yourself?
What a Christian picture you portrait. Pfui.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> She did NOT post that, YOU did.
> Nastier than ever you have become.
> Your personal problems must be multiplying by double digits.
> ...


What's interesting is the length this person went to find the post and then copy. Why the heck was that even necessary and who even cares? Apparently, this person has no other social outlet.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

For those of you who would like to learn some of the history of the black struggle but aren't thrilled about reading textbooks I would suggest you see "The Butler" starring Forest Whitaker. It is loosely based on a real character who was a White House butler through five presidencies going back to the 1950's to his retirement and seeing the first black president elected and being invited to sit on the podium at President Obama's first inauguration. Another excellent movie is "The Help" which shows how black women were regarded by whites and how they were forced in many circumstances to put their own families lives second to the families they worked for. If anyone has any other suggestions for us that you found interesting or informative please post and share it with us. Also, please feel free to suggest other topics we can discuss down the road on this thread. It is so refreshing to see so many new people on this thread and I hope you will continue to drop by and post and try to ignore the "negative posters" as best you can and hopefully they will get tired of us and go back to their other political threads. Thanks again to all of you and I would like to wish you all a very pleasant and enjoyable Labor Day Weekend.
Go Unions! :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Thank goodness I came in this morning late enough to skip over those embedded images. I have to say I am disappointed that they were embedded after I specifically requested that they be linked.
> At least I know that I shouldn't look before "page" 22.
> I can't imagine that anyone who has seen any of those images ever needs to be reminded of the horror.


When I posted those pictures I didn't realize I had embedded them. You requested that they be linked after it was possible to do that so I don't quite understand your disappointment. However, because others have expressed their horror seeing those pictures, I have requested Admin to delete that post of mine.

I don't want that post deleted. Some people around here need a hard lesson about the struggle for Civil Rights and the conditions that had to be fought against. I believe those pictures should remain in this topic to remind people of the horror of lynching, especially since a black man was dragged to death as late as 15 years ago, yet another lynching in this land of the free. His name was James Byrd, Jr. and he was lynched on June 7, 1998 by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas.

.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Just getting around to reading this morning. The history aspect is very interesting to me! Let's keep it going.


Yes it is GW. If you know of anything interesting or any good links to help us out please do share and have a pleasant day. 
I am continuing posting a "Slavery" timeline so it makes it easier for me and hopefully others to put what happened when in context so if anyone sees a date or event on the timeline that interests them we can dig for some information on it and share it with the rest of us. The more I have been digging the more I am learning and I sure welcome any and all contributions from others.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You are free to do as you feel is right.


MaidInBedlam said:


> When I posted those pictures I didn't realize I had embedded them. You requested that they be linked after it was possible to do that so I don't quite understand your disappointment. You can't expect me to do the impossible for you.
> 
> I respectfully disagree that these images should not be used to remind people of the horror of lynching, especially since a black man was dragged to death as late as 15 years ago, yet another lynching in this land of the free. His name was James Byrd, Jr. and he was lynched on June 7, 1998 by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas.
> 
> .


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> You are free to do as you feel is right.


I did what I felt was right, but doing so wasn't the only factor to be considered.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope everyone received my e-mail of the animal's vulgar post that requested it.
> 
> If not, please PM me again.
> 
> ...


knitpresebtgifts
SHE never posted it as we can prove, YOU had the need to do so.

Burned your Bible and got into a satanic cult?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CONTINUATION OF HISTORY TIMELINE OF SLAVERY

In Virginia, black slaves and black and white indentured servants band together to participate in Bacon's Rebellion. 

1680
The State of Virginia forbids blacks and slaves from bearing arms, prohibits blacks from congregating in large numbers, and mandates harsh punishment for slaves who assault Christians or attempt escape.

1682
Virginia declares that all imported black servants are slaves for life. 

1684
New York makes it illegal for slaves to sell goods. 

1688
The Pennsylvania Quakers pass the first formal antislavery resolution.

1691
Virginia passes the first anti-miscegenation law, forbidding marriages between whites and blacks or whites and Native Americans. 

1691
Virginia prohibits the manumission of slaves within its borders. Manumitted slaves are forced to leave the colony.

1691
South Carolina passes the first comprehensive slave codes.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SLAVERY EXPANDS

Rice cultivation is introduced into Carolina. Slave importation increases dramatically. 

1696
The Royal African Trade Company loses its monopoly and New England colonists enter the slave trade.

1700
Pennsylvania legalizes slavery. 

1702
New York passes An Act for Regulating Slaves. Among the prohibitions of this act are meetings of more than three slaves, trading by slaves, and testimony by slaves in court. 

1703
Massachusetts requires every master who liberates a slave to pay a bond of 50 pounds or more in case the freedman becomes a public charge.

1703
Connecticut assigns the punishment of whipping to any slaves who disturb the peace or assault whites. 

1703
Rhode Island makes it illegal for blacks and Indians to walk at night without passes.
The Virginia Slave Code codifies slave status, declaring all non-Christian servants entering the colony to be slaves. It defines all slaves as real estate, acquits masters who kill slaves during punishment, forbids slaves and free colored peoples from physically assaulting white persons, and denies slaves the right to bear arms or move abroad without written permission. 


RACIAL OPPRESSION IS LAW

1705
New York declares that punishment by execution will be applied to certain runaway slaves.

1705
Massachusetts makes marriage and sexual relations between blacks and whites illegal. 

1706
New York declares blacks, Indians, and slaves who kill white people to be subject to the death penalty. 

1706
Connecticut requires that Indians, mulattos, and black servants gain permission from their masters to engage in trade. 

1708
The Southern colonies require militia captains to enlist and train one slave for every white soldier.

1708
Rhode Island requires that slaves be accompanied by their masters when visiting the homes of free persons.

1708
Blacks outnumber whites in South Carolina.

1710
New York forbids blacks, Indians, and mulattos from walking at night without lighted lanterns.

1711
Pennsylvania prohibits the importation of blacks and Indians.

1711
Rhode Island prohibits the clandestine importation of black and Indian slaves.

1712
Pennsylvania prohibits the importation of slaves.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MIB thanks for the lyrics. They provide help in understanding the Civil Rights Experience. Surely this is something difficult to understand for us today. The experience was so horrible that people rose up to demand freedom and justice for all. A long time coming......


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like true Christianity to me. Good reminder there too.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, you don't know what floodgates you've opened by asking for some song lyrics. I'll try not to get too carried away. This an old hymn, not a Civil Rights song, but I love it and I think it says very well what songs of the Civil Rights Movement said in different ways. It's from an Af­ri­can-Amer­i­can spir­it­u­al, ar­ranged by Har­ry T. Bur­leigh (1866-1949).
> 
> Perhaps it will speak more meaningfully to some of our Christian friends. Not to get too sappy, but I deeply believe we are all children of one Father, we're all brothers and sisters, and that we are made in God's image which must be very complex given how different some of us are from each other.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do you really think I am falling for that, KPG? What sane person would send you their email address not knowing you. Especially the people who read your posts wouldn't dare venture there. And I don't believe a word you say about the screen shot. It wasn't up long enough. So take your 'wounds' and go whine to somebody who cares. We certainly don't. rat-a-tat. As a matter of fact I have received a few PM's applauding what I said to you saying it was about time.
> Deal with it.
> I doubt you got any email addresses at all. Cut the crap.
> Go back to D&P where you are at least* half way* tolerated.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good morning Damemary! Who else is out here? I'll have to take a look around.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've lived in Arizona, state of Barry Goldwater, for many years. Barry was vilified as too liberal before he died by the ultra right wingers. He didn't see why gays should be disgraced, among other things.

The only spot of conservatism in me is fiscal, but I will always sacrifice that when people are hungry etc. I hope that the Republican Party will evolve...or disappear. I think we need intelligent, open minds and a good heart to solve the problems we face.

I must say that this thread gives me hope. Welcome friends.



sumpleby said:


> I first voted the year the law changed so that 18 yr.-olds could vote, and I registered as an Independent, not wanting to be tied to a particular party. Over the years I have voted both ways, depending on the issue/candidate. Some things I agree with conservatives about, others I agree with liberals.
> 
> However, in recent years the right wing seems to have lost its mind. It is getting ever more intolerant and intractable. Even the merest whiff of tolerance or cooperation by one of its members is met with cries of "not conservative enough" and attempts to get rid of that person. And in the past two years they have become downright scary in their attempts to control the country. I will not be voting for a Republican in any capacity until the loons lose their grip and the party swings back from the brink. Just can't do it.


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## bcdado (May 27, 2013)

So glad to find you ladies. Even in my own family it is a struggle to find anyone who agrees with my P.O.V.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So glad to hear your voice.



EveMCooke said:


> I think it so sad that this site has been invaded by the pre teenage girls who love throwing hissy fits and then defend their ranting by saying that they alone are true christians and they alone will be saved. So sad, so juvenile. They know who they are.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It appears to be part of her nature. Sad.



EveMCooke said:


> Is it really necessary to be so nasty?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do you really think I am falling for that, KPG? What sane person would send you their email address not knowing you. Especially the people who read your posts wouldn't dare venture there. And I don't believe a word you say about the screen shot. It wasn't up long enough. So take your 'wounds' and go whine to somebody who cares. We certainly don't. rat-a-tat. As a matter of fact I have received a few PM's applauding what I said to you saying it was about time.
> Deal with it.
> I doubt you got any email addresses at all. Cut the crap.
> Go back to D&P where you are at least* half way* tolerated.


BrattyPatty
The Pit Bull seems to be drawn to us like flies to honey.
Her problems are mounting.
Sure hope that she can get treatment under Obamacare since she has been neglected terribly.
Something is drastically wrong with this person and she seems to have no-one around her who cares whatsoever.
Her dark demeanor is interesting to watch but must invoke fright to others who cannot escape her.
At least we have the luxury to observe her from afar.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, thanks for the continuing timeline of slavery.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> That was one of the major reasons I could not bring myself to full on support the president in his first run. The idea of him being assassinated makes me teary eyed.
> It does occur to me, though, that the folks who honestly believe that Libs think he is the messiah would fear making a martyr of him. Right Wing Nutism may just save his life.


From your lips to God's ears.......we don't need any more martyrs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

This map is in the Lincoln Museum in Sprigfield, IL. I hope you will find it useful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps we can encourage those who disagree with the purpose of this thread to 'read but post their comments elsewhere.' They can refer to our topics and record their comments for themselves and their friends. No one is going to change anyone's mind....just enflame the opposition.

Just a suggestion worthy of consideration. Comments?



MaidInBedlam said:


> This is an open topic, and, of course, you have the freedom to comment whenever you want to. Even though you haven't used derogatory words, what you have to say doesn't fit the original purpose of this topic very well. I hope you will please stop posting here. If there is something anyone here can do to encourage that, please say so.
> 
> It may seem obvious, but what I've said applies to others who are filling this topic up with posts that would be more appropriate in some of the other so-called political topics.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please go away.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You'll have to ask that of BrattyPatty as she is the person who posted the vulgar words.
> 
> Here's my words captured in a screen shot (note the time if you wish to go back and confirm); I have cropped off BP's response. I have heard privately from many who are often offended by her, but by that post yesterday in particular. I assume you were as well if you saw it.
> 
> Decide for yourself who is so nasty.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> She did NOT post that, YOU did.
> Nastier than ever you have become.
> Your personal problems must be multiplying by double digits.
> ...


Oh how wrong you are again. In fact I applaud kpg for editing her reply because it was so offensive. Anyone that would write such a reply and the person defending that response are the ones that have major personal, emotional and psychological problems


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried wrote:
knitpresentgifts
She did NOT post that, YOU did.
Nastier than ever you have become.
Your personal problems must be multiplying by double digits.
Has all of your Family deserted you and you are looking for contact anywhere and everywhere and you do not care in which form you call attention to yourself?
What a Christian picture you portrait. Pfui.


Oh how wrong you are again. In fact I applaud kpg for editing her reply because it was so offensive. Anyone that would write such a reply and the person defending that response are the ones that have major personal, emotional and psychological problems

Love the Lake - Politely, I ask you again to leave this thread and post elsewhere. Why you continue to post when you have other sites that welcome you do you want to be here? You and KPG are looking very silly and foolish and dear Ingried please try to just ignore them as it only encourages them to stay. They either don't care or don't see that they are getting nowhere with their diabolical plan to tear down anything they don't like or agree with. Please be sensible Love the Lake and make a graceful exit with your dignity in tact. Thank you for your kind cooperation. I really want no fighting with you or anyone else on this thread and we are not going to leave what we started.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Thank goodness I came in this morning late enough to skip over those embedded images. I have to say I am disappointed that they were embedded after I specifically requested that they be linked.
> At least I know that I shouldn't look before "page" 22.
> I can't imagine that anyone who has seen any of those images ever needs to be reminded of the horror.


Don't take it personally jelun2. MIB ignores requests from both parties and is offensive always. Did you actually expect she'd honor your and Susan's requests because you are all fellow Liberals? MIB attacks as an equal-opportunity offender and antagonist. Be proud. Be forewarned, her word means nothing (she said she'd delete the offensive images after awhile but did not do so).


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Can't delete pictures now. I just used "Report Issue" to ask Admin to delete the post with pictures of lynchings. I thought this would be the quickest way to get it done.
> 
> In other circumstances I would have left the picture where they are. History is a hard teacher, and some people need hard lessons to learn anything.
> 
> Once again, I'm sorry those pictures hurt some of you.


I'm now glad you put up those pictures, Maid. They're a sharp reminder that such horrors didn't end with Abolition.
Quite honestly, I don't understand why the folks in these pictures--particularly the second, which appears to date from the 50s--aren't tracked down and prosecuted. There's no statute of limitations on murder, and every single one of them is an accessory. At the very least their names should be made public. People (and I use the term loosely) who participated in lynchings shouldn't be able to walk half a block without someone grabbing them by the shoulders, looking them squarely in the eye, and demanding to know if they understand NOW what they did.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is the MO of KPG formerly known as Cherf. It will go to any political thread and try to hijack it. Last fall is proof of it. I am asking everyone to ignore and not respond to it and keep up on the god discussions we are having.
> Thanks,
> Patty


Bratty, you are one of the worse racists of all as you slur me constantly because I'm a full blooded American born Apache Indian. So now, try to deny this to all of the people who are posting here.

MLK's speech meant a lot to me as I had hoped people would quit hating the American Indian, but talk about racism, it is still alive & well in our lives.

We visited the Grand Canyon a few years ago & the guide said, we cannot go farther because the Hopi Indians owns the rest of this area & won't give it up to us! Well who would want to live in the Grand Canyon except the Hopi Indians as it is a very harsh land.

Have any of you on this site visited an Indian Reservation? The poverty is everywhere! Some of you talk about having a poor life--well you should be an Indian who are still put into reservations.

What if all of you other people who have a different colored skin were put into one area? Think about this then say you are discriminated against!

Little moon Flower.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> When I posted those pictures I didn't realize I had embedded them. You requested that they be linked after it was possible to do that so I don't quite understand your disappointment. However, because others have expressed their horror seeing those pictures, I have requested Admin to delete that post of mine.
> 
> I don't want that post deleted. Some people around here need a hard lesson about the struggle for Civil Rights and the conditions that had to be fought against. I believe those pictures should remain in this topic to remind people of the horror of lynching, especially since a black man was dragged to death as late as 15 years ago, yet another lynching in this land of the free. His name was James Byrd, Jr. and he was lynched on June 7, 1998 by three men, of whom at least two were white supremacists, in Jasper, Texas.
> 
> .


I hope you'll soon post photos of the two black teens who beat and murdered a WWII veteran last week because they wanted to.

Also, you should throw in a few pictures of the three teens (two black, one mixed race) who shot in cold blood an Ausssie who was a guest and out for a jog in America. Why? Because they wanted something to do to cure their boredom and because one murderer said 90% of white people deserve to die because he hates them.

Then, I suspect we all could post the photos of the 16 million aborted black (only) babies in the past few years mostly murdered by Planned Parenthood who targets the black communities. Why? Because the unwed birth rate in black communities is approximately 78% give or kill a few. Its a great marketplace for murder (according to them).

When all those are posted, you shouldn't forget to post the thousands of murdered (mostly young adults) but many children too, killed in Chicago and/or Detroit by black-on-black crime.

Then we'll all have something to talk about instead of slavery which was abolished hundreds of years ago.

Get out of the past and discuss the improvement of the future for blacks and any race that was part of MLK Jr.'s American Dream. I'll agree that all these pictures have a place in history. However, deal with the problems of today and the recent past not problems with permanent solutions already solved and in the history books.

After all, that was the purpose of this thread _allegedly._


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope you'll soon post photos of the two black teens who beat and murdered a WWII veteran last week because they wanted to.
> 
> Also, you should throw in a few pictures of the three teens (two black, one mixed race) who shot in cold blood an Ausssie who was a guest and out for a jog in America. Why? Because they wanted something to do to cure their boredom and because one murderer said 90% of white people deserve to die because he hates them.
> 
> ...


I agree, not falling for that false 'who me, not me' response.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> What's interesting is the length this person went to find the post and then copy. Why the heck was that even necessary and who even cares? Apparently, this person has no other social outlet.


What is interesting is that apparently you have no idea what a screen shot is or how to create one.

A screen shot is taken in real-time. No 'lengths' are necessary to 'find' and 'copy' what is in the present.

Apparently you have no computer skills or educated knowledge of those who do.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope you'll soon post photos of the two black teens who beat and murdered a WWII veteran last week because they wanted to.
> 
> Also, you should throw in a few pictures of the three teens (two black, one mixed race) who shot in cold blood an Ausssie who was a guest and out for a jog in America. Why? Because they wanted something to do to cure their boredom and because one murderer said 90% of white people deserve to die because he hates them.
> 
> ...


I knew someone bristling with self-defensiveness was going to jump in and try to sweep those photos under the rug--but, when all is said and done, I didn't expect it to be you, KPG. Your response speaks volumes.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

If we think about those who are protesting about wage inequality and the refusal of businesses with billion dollar net profit to pay the people who do the business a living wage I think that we can picture 
people rising up and demanding freedom and justice again, soon. 
There was an article in the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine, maybe 15 years ago, that laid out a scenario for a revolution in 2023 (I think) here in the US. I think it will come sooner.



damemary said:


> MIB thanks for the lyrics. They provide help in understanding the Civil Rights Experience. Surely this is something difficult to understand for us today. The experience was so horrible that people rose up to demand freedom and justice for all. A long time coming......


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Oh how wrong you are again. In fact I applaud kpg for editing her reply because it was so offensive. Anyone that would write such a reply and the person defending that response are the ones that have major personal, emotional and psychological problems


Thank you LTL. She simply has no idea what a screen shot is or how one is created. So many have asked me to send the original post, and I have done so to those who are truly offended and/or concerned. Other e-mail addresses I received I will not respond to. Funny that they'd provide their e-mail addresses though!

I have enough class to not re-post on-line that which the animal wrote (btw two different versions before the final permanent one).

Come to find out, I'm not the only one who saw, read and captured both the animal's vulgarity and Cheeky's bank info.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I knew someone bristling with self-defensiveness was going to jump in and try to sweep those photos under the rug--but, when all is said and done, I didn't expect it to be you, KPG. Your response speaks volumes.


Do you understand that which you read? I'll suggested we post millions more pictures, not sweep those already posted under the rug.

Learn something, like reading comprehension, before you make yourself the fool again.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresebtgifts
> SHE never posted it as we can prove, YOU had the need to do so.
> 
> Burned your Bible and got into a satanic cult?


Tsk, tsk, nasty, nasty & you have the nerve to blast other people!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you LTL. She simply has no idea what a screen shot is or how one is created. So many have asked me to send the original post and I have done so to those who are truly offended and/or concerned. Other e-mail address I received I will not respond to. Funny that they'd provide their e-mail addresses though!
> 
> I have enough class to not re-post on-line that which the animal wrote (btw two different versions before the final permanent one).
> 
> Come to find out, I'm not the only one who saw, read and captured both the animal's vulgarity and Cheeky's bank info.


I know, when I saw it, I was appalled that she wrote that disgusting 'phrase'. And the left harp on some about how they believe some of us are unChristian.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

So from the Liberal POV, that type of vulgarity is okay to use on an open forum?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I know, when I saw it, I was appalled that she wrote that disgusting 'phrase'. And the left harp on some about how they believe some of us are unChristian.


For me, the views expressed here and elsewhere, with correct spelling and grammar sometimes, are far more offensive than a few "vulgarities".


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Could I just request that if you are going to post pics of lynchings that you do it by link to websites rather than embedding.
> I have absolutely no desire to see another picture of a lynching for the rest of my life.
> Thanks.


Admin has removed the post you found offensive.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

My thinking about those people who are protesting about their minimum wage jobs are just wanting the rest of us to "give" them higher pay because they either dropped out of high school for some reason but now want a high paying job.

Well they just not follow the rules of acquiring an education & either have 2 or 3 babies by different fathers or they are a young man who has fathered 4-6 children by different mothers but cannot pay child support.

Why aren't these young people using birth control? Most Democrats want abortions to remain legal--those poor children won't ever have a life, but some politician is making that decision for them.

Most of you on this site say you are now proud to be an American as Michelle said, but remember Obo is half white so why aren't you proud of that fact?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't take it personally jelun2. MIB ignores requests from both parties and is offensive always. Did you actually expect she'd honor your and Susan's requests because you are all fellow Liberals? MIB attacks as an equal-opportunity offender and antagonist. Be proud. Be forewarned, her word means nothing (she said she'd delete the offensive images after awhile but did not do so).


 Ah, there 's the classic KPG who makes assumptions without checking out whether they are true or not. When I tried to delete the images jelun2 and Susan found offensive I couldn't do it. Therefore, I used the "Report Issue" option as I thought it would be the quickest way to get that post deleted. Admin has very kindly done as I asked. I suppose you'll find something wrong with that as you never are happier than when you can say something unpleasant, and can't manage to enjoy it when someone does the right thing. Bless your heart, and I hope you don't change one bit.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> For me, the views expressed here and elsewhere, with correct spelling and grammar sometimes, are far more offensive than a few "vulgarities".


Thats because no one has nailed you for it. But wait they will if you do.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I will look up which one of these women made fun of my Avatar! I will blast it on this thread for all to see how hateful these Democratic people really are--such racists towards others not of their color.

Little Moon Flower.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ah, there 's the classic KPG who makes assumptions without checking out whether they are true or not. When I tried to delete the images jelun2 and Susan found offensive I couldn't do it.


Ah, the classic MIB who lies, never honors her word, then blames other for her actions and then finally paints herself the victim.

... Priceless.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Bratty, you are one of the worse racists of all as you slur me constantly because I'm a full blooded American born Apache Indian. So now, try to deny this to all of the people who are posting here.
> 
> MLK's speech meant a lot to me as I had hoped people would quit hating the American Indian, but talk about racism, it is still alive & well in our lives.
> 
> ...


Jane - While it was true several years ago that many native Americans were forced out of their original homelands and on to reservations it is not true anymore and hasn't been for many years. I have Cherokee and Ojibwe in my family and yes I have been on several reservations in my life including Red Lake, White Earth, Leech Lake and Grand Portage to name a few. I have very great sympathy for native Americans but please don't say things that are not true. I know it can be very difficult to leave the reservation and move to the city but it is done all the time. You don't help the the cause of your own people or my relatives when you say things like that. When you come out here and rant at people as you frequently do you only turn people away from you. Please if you are going to post on this thread I am asking you the same as I asked everyone else to be nice and don't call others names. I have attached one link concerning what has happened to native Americans which doesn't begin to cover all the wrongs that were done by whites but you don't need to add to the confusion. Thank you.

www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc121f.pdf‎


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ingried wrote:
> knitpresentgifts
> She did NOT post that, YOU did.
> Nastier than ever you have become.
> ...


Well, would you like for me to post some of your hateful remarks you have made to me in the past? Now, you want people to think you are a nice person.

How about all of those Raid cans to destroy me until KP's Admin told you to stop? Deny this & I will put pages & pages of your slurs to me on your new site.

This was all because I'm an American Indian and you have the nerve to talk about racism! Shame, shame!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ah, the classic MIB who lies, never honors her word, then blames other for her actions and then finally paints herself the victim.
> 
> ... Priceless.


True, true, true. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ah, the classic MIB who lies, never honors her word, then blames other for her actions and then finally paints herself the victim.
> 
> ... Priceless.


Enough, KPG. I now feel that Maid did the right thing by posting those photos. That's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This map is in the Lincoln Museum in Sprigfield, IL. I hope you will find it useful.


Sadly, in those orange states, while slavery may not "exist" any longer, a huge disparity between races can still be found. Especially in the smaller towns. I had occasion to visit the southern part of Alabama a couple of time 2 years ago and my eyes were opened. It was as though time stood still in that particular town. It was like Paula Deen land. (Sorry, couldn't resist.)


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Enough, KPG. I now feel that Maid did the right thing by posting those photos. That's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.


I'll defend myself to whomever addresses me, without your input, thank you very much. I do not care about your concerns.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bcdado said:


> So glad to find you ladies. Even in my own family it is a struggle to find anyone who agrees with my P.O.V.


Welcome!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I knew someone bristling with self-defensiveness was going to jump in and try to sweep those photos under the rug--but, when all is said and done, I didn't expect it to be you, KPG. Your response speaks volumes.


We shall be staying on topic, I hope.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll defend myself to whomever addressed me, without your input, thank you very much. I do not care about your concerns.


I'd expect no more--but you won't use me in your "divide and conquer" ploy. It's not going to work.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> If we think about those who are protesting about wage inequality and the refusal of businesses with billion dollar net profit to pay the people who do the business a living wage I think that we can picture
> people rising up and demanding freedom and justice again, soon.
> There was an article in the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine, maybe 15 years ago, that laid out a scenario for a revolution in 2023 (I think) here in the US. I think it will come sooner.


While I think it has occurred in certain areas of business, it has been on a smaller scale. It would not surprise me if a large scale event happened one day. The gap between the haves and have nots is continuously widening.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Enough, KPG. I now feel that Maid did the right thing by posting those photos. That's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.


I still feel that those pictures were not only offensive but unnecessary. No one denied any of those horrible things happened. I would not need to see mounds of dead gassed Jews to prove to me the Holocaust occurred. The reason was to get attention, which she accomplished, just not the kind she wanted.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Admin has removed the post you found offensive.


Thank you for posting those initially. We often need the reminders. The difference between those lynchings and some acts today is that no one was held accountable then. No arrests, no trials - just the families left to suffer.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

I recently read a book, the name of which I cannot remember, but the subject matter was the flight of the freed slaves to the North where they found decent jobs. While sad in some parts, it was also uplifting. And it was an important time in history.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'd expect no more--but you won't use me in your "divide and conquer" ploy. It's not going to work.


Ah, darling, it was YOU who interjected and addressed me regarding my post to MIB.

You are one confused lady.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I still feel that those pictures were not only offensive but unnecessary. No one denied any of those horrible things happened. I would not need to see mounds of dead gassed Jews to prove to me the Holocaust occurred. The reason was to get attention, which she accomplished, just not the kind she wanted.


What struck me about the photos was not the hanging bodies, but rather the spectators grouped around them. Somehow it's shocking to see these folks with smiles wreathing their faces wearing modern clothing--makes very clear that horrors like these were going on within the lifetimes of many of us--not 150 years ago, when slavery was finally abolished.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> My thinking about those people who are protesting about their minimum wage jobs are just wanting the rest of us to "give" them higher pay because they either dropped out of high school for some reason but now want a high paying job.
> 
> Well they just not follow the rules of acquiring an education & either have 2 or 3 babies by different fathers or they are a young man who has fathered 4-6 children by different mothers but cannot pay child support.
> 
> ...


Jane, you are quick to point your finger and wonder why "those people" aren't doing things right. Why didn't they finish high school, why didn't they get a better education, why so many babies from so many different fathers, why don't they use birth control, why , why, why?
But yet when it comes to the American Indian, there don't seem to be any why questions. How about giving the rest of America the same care and respect you give the American Indian. You don't know these people and you have no idea what life experiences they have lived through that has put them where they are. Please don't be so quick to put everyone in their little box you think they belong in.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> Jane, you are quick to point your finger and wonder why "those people" aren't doing things right. Why didn't they finish high school, why didn't they get a better education, why so many babies from so many different fathers, why don't they use birth control, why , why, why?
> But yet when it comes to the American Indian, there don't seem to be any why questions. How about giving the rest of America the same care and respect you give the American Indian. You don't know these people and you have no idea what life experiences they have lived through that has put them where they are. Please don't be so quick to put everyone in their little box you think they belong in.


At least the American Indians has their own reservations, benefits, colleges, etc. Can't say that about other minorities. They even have casinos!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Thank you for posting those initially. We often need the reminders. The difference between those lynchings and some acts today is that no one was held accountable then. No arrests, no trials - just the families left to suffer.


Isn't that something, GW? Some of the people's faces in those photos are as clear as day, and many are still among us. They'd all be senior citizens by now, of course--how on earth have they lived with themselves for all these years? It's one thing to be aware that lynchings are going on and turn a blind eye to it, out of fear or even indifference--but to actually be at the scene, watching, egging on the instigators, maybe even participating? It defies belief.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll defend myself to whomever addressed me, without your input, thank you very much. I do not care about your concerns.


Ladies, please ignore KPG aka knitpresentgifts this poster or should I say poser. She has only one goal and that is to destroy this thread. She is a very malicious and nasty person and I know as I used to foolishly engage her in pointless arguments. I have given that bad habit up and she has not. She will go read all your previous posts since you have started on KP and will repost them out on threads as she has done to me and others in the past. She has no shame. She will rip you to shreds as you see she is trying to do to some other posters here and she will just as quickly do it to you. She is what I like to call a "holy roller" who runs right over the top of folks and she is the self appointed judge of all of us and knows the condition of everyone's soul and will not hesitate to tell you whether you are going to heaven or hell. She knows all and sees all and will steam roll you right into the ground. What she won't accept is defeat so liberal ladies let's let her know she cannot win and should show a little class and respect for others and make a graceful exit. I have given up trying to figure out what she is,or who she is or what makes her tick. Just keep your distance from her and don't look her in the eye. Some believe she is a soul less zombie doomed to roam the earth but I doubt it. All in good fun, KPG, but seriously you know what they say about company and fish, they both start to smell after three days and your time is up. Thanks for being such a good sport!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Jane, you are quick to point your finger and wonder why "those people" aren't doing things right. Why didn't they finish high school, why didn't they get a better education, why so many babies from so many different fathers, why don't they use birth control, why , why, why?
> But yet when it comes to the American Indian, there don't seem to be any why questions. How about giving the rest of America the same care and respect you give the American Indian. You don't know these people and you have no idea what life experiences they have lived through that has put them where they are. Please don't be so quick to put everyone in their little box you think they belong in.


Excellent point, NJG! There are marked similarities between the plight of the two groups--the thought hadn't even occurred to me.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ladies, please ignore this poster or should I say poser. She has only one goal and that is to destroy this thread. She is a very malicious and nasty person and I know as I used to foolishly engage her in pointless arguments. I have given that bad habit up and she has not. She will go read all your previous posts since you have started on KP and will repost them out on threads as she has done to me and others in the past. She has no shame. She will rip you to shreds as you see she is trying to do to some other posters here and she will just as quickly do it to you. She is what I like to call a "holy roller" who runs right over the top of folks and she is the self appointed judge of all of us and knows the condition of everyone's soul and will not hesitate to tell you whether you are going to heaven or hell. She knows all and sees all and will steam roll you right into the ground. What she won't accept is defeat so liberal ladies let's let her know she cannot win and should show a little class and respect for others and make a graceful exit. I have given up trying to figure out what she is,or who she is or what makes her tick. Just keep your distance from her and don't look her in the eye. Some believe she is a soul less zombie doomed to roam the earth but I doubt it. All in good fun, KPG, but seriously you know what they say about company and fish, they both start to smell after three days and your time is up. Thanks for being such a good sport!


I'm ignoring all others except those in the Liberal arena. They are not worthy of my time.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> At least the American Indians has their own reservations, benefits, colleges, etc. Can't say that about other minorities. They even have casinos!


That was one of the most ignorant and insensitive comments ever written. When you live a year in their shoes, tell me how those casinos worked for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_social_statistics_of_Native_Americans

http://www.nrcprograms.org/site/PageServer?pagename=naa_livingconditions


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> That was one of the most ignorant and insensitive comments ever written. When you live a year in their shoes, tell me how those casinos worked for you


Exactly the point. The Native American tribes suffer from high levels of unemployment, alcoholism, and domestic violence despite federal intervention in the form of programs, grants, and lots of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" encouragement. None of that seems to be working, and the question is, Why?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly the point. The Native American tribes suffer from high levels of unemployment, alcoholism, and domestic violence despite federal intervention in the form of programs, grants, and lots of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" encouragement. None of that seems to be working, and the question is, Why?


It would be interesting to consider the parallels, wouldn't it? In the meantime, I do enjoy visiting their casinos. Ka-ching!!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Thank you for posting those initially. We often need the reminders. The difference between those lynchings and some acts today is that no one was held accountable then. No arrests, no trials - just the families left to suffer.


Yes, the families of the four American men murdered in Benghazi still have not been told by the present Administration who was responsible for torturing, raping and murdering their sons, husbands, grands, etc. Obama and Hillary and others in the White House know who was responsible and allowed the men to be killed ON THEIR WATCH.

Those who were wounded are kept silent with bribes and threats even while still one remains in the hospital with his injuries.

Nearly one year later and no arrests, no trials - Hillary and Obama lied to the four families and just leave them to suffer.

Because as Hillary said, "What difference does it make, now."


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> At least the American Indians has their own reservations, benefits, colleges, etc. Can't say that about other minorities. They even have casinos!


Well, folks, you cannot get more ignorant than the statement above written by GWPLVER. I sure hope she gets SOME education sometime soon in her lifetime. It is nearly criminal to go through life so poorly educated and ignorant.

I'll post this list as it is appropriate to the purpose of this thread unlike the majority of posts here by Libs who only post their grievances and excuses. You would think the OP and one or two of the Libs posting would know SOMETHING about black history.

Here is a list of the historically black colleges and universities: I'm completely proud of this fact, I hope you are too.

Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs)

Today, there are 101 historically black colleges and universities in the United States, who can count among their graduates such luminaries as W. E. B. Du Bois (Fisk University), Thurgood Marshall (Lincoln University and Howard University), Toni Morrison (Howard University), and *Martin Luther King, Jr.* (Morehouse College).

Alabama A & M University	
Alabama State University	
Albany State University	
Alcorn State University	
Allen University	
Arkansas Baptist College 
Benedict College	
Bennett College for Women	
Bethune-Cookman University	
Bishop State Community College	
Bluefield State College	
Bowie State University	
Central State University	
Cheyney University of Pennsylvania	
Claflin University	
Clark Atlanta University	
Clinton Junior College	
Coahoma Community College	
Concordia College-Selma	
Coppin State University	
Delaware State University	
Denmark Technical College	1
Dillard University	
Edward Waters College	
Elizabeth City State University	
Fayetteville State University	
Fisk University	
Florida Agricultural and Mechanical University	
Florida Memorial University	
Fort Valley State University	
Gadsden State Community College	
Grambling State University	
H Councill Trenholm State Technical College
Hampton University
Harris-Stowe State University	
Hinds Community College-Utica	
Howard University	
Huston-Tillotson University	
Interdenominational Theological Center	
J F Drake State Technical College	
Jackson State University	
Jarvis Christian College	
Johnson C Smith University 
Kentucky State University	
Lane College	
Langston University	
Lawson State Community College-Birmingham Campus
Le Moyne-Owen College	
Lincoln University	
Lincoln University of Pennsylvania	
Livingstone College	
Meharry Medical College	
Miles College	
Mississippi Valley State University	
Morehouse College	
Morehouse School of Medicine	
Morgan State University	
Morris College	
Norfolk State University	
North Carolina A & T State University
North Carolina Central University	
Oakwood University	
Paine College	
Paul Quinn College	
Philander Smith College	
Prairie View A & M University
Rust College	
Saint Augustines College	
Saint Pauls College	
Savannah State University	
Selma University	
Shaw University	
Shelton State Community College	
South Carolina State University
Southern University and A & M College	
Southern University at New Orleans
Southern University at Shreveport	
Southwestern Christian College	
Spelman College	
St. Philip's College	
Stillman College	
Talladega College	
Tennessee State University
Texas College	
Texas Southern University	
Tougaloo College	
Tuskegee University	Kresge Center
University of Arkansas at Pine Bluff
University of Maryland Eastern Shore	J.T. Williams Hall
University of the District of Columbia	
University of the Virgin Islands	
University of the Virgin Islands-Kingshill	
Virginia State University	
Virginia Union University	
Virginia University of Lynchburg	
Voorhees College	
West Virginia State University	
Wilberforce University	
Wiley College
Winston-Salem State University	
Xavier University of Louisiana


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Isn't that something, GW? Some of the people's faces in those photos are as clear as day, and many are still among us. They'd all be senior citizens by now, of course--how on earth have they lived with themselves for all these years? It's one thing to be aware that lynchings are going on and turn a blind eye to it, out of fear or even indifference--but to actually be at the scene, watching, egging on the instigators, maybe even participating? It defies belief.


Reminds me of the horse and buggies, picnic lunches, parasols, and spyglasses all watching the Battle of Mananssas.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> That was one of the most ignorant and insensitive comments ever written. When you live a year in their shoes, tell me how those casinos worked for you
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_social_statistics_of_Native_Americans
> 
> http://www.nrcprograms.org/site/PageServer?pagename=naa_livingconditions


What GW says is true Love the Lake. Any native Americans who live on the reservation get a free ride and if they are a tribe with casinos they all get thousands a year from the profits. I know because I have relatives who lived on reservations and no longer do. It is sad Jane knows so little about her own heritage and as pointed out maligns all others. It is also true that many of the reservations are just as poor as any urban ghetto and all the bad stuff that goes on in the city also goes on on the poor reservations. When you and your friends say that urban blacks are trash and one of you even made the kind remark,"let them kill each other" you reserve this nasty attitude for blacks only when the truth is it is happening on reservations and in poor white rural areas too but you never talk about those people being "bad". Don't any of you ever say you give a damn about Dr. King or what he stood for because if he were alive today you would be calling him a no good N ----r! Would you like me to pull out your old bigoted posts like KPG is fond of doing to her victims or would you please get the heck out of here because we love our black President and our black families and our black friends and you know how crazy we all can get. All you know or care to know is your own sick stereotype of what a black person is. You are in the wrong neighborhood my sister. Now get the H--l off my porch and out of my neighborhood. Because you are messing with the wrong black woman! If you all don't leave immediately I will be reporting all of you to Admin and this is no joke. You have pushed me too far this time. I will watch for when you leave KP and if you ever show up here again, on this thread to harass us as you have been doing as God is my witness, you will be out of here!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Reminds me of the horse and buggies, picnic lunches, parasols, and spyglasses all watching the Battle of Mananssas.


In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


We stand behind you, Cheeky!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Perfect description, advice about and picture of what KPG probably looks like. Thanks for the chuckle. I already know how much she loves me and I cherish her attention to what I post. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


Cheeks of a Blighter, Why don't you pull out all of the bigoted posts that you claim LTL has posted. You won't find one, but you....that is another story..... Also you posted a pic of your self as a five year old, and you are not of the color you want people to believe, your cheeks are big, fat and white. Your pants must be on fire about now. If calling someone a liar gets me kicked off like a rodeo clown well so be it. It's just one place to post out of a million.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Just a reminder
Extinguishing a negative behavior calls for consistence.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


In all honesty, I have no idea what you are talking about. If you are referring to the parasol comment, I always thought it was bizarre that people of that era would picnic and watch a battle. Always found that unsettling. I didn't post the pictures that some might find unsettling. I have absolutely no idea what you are upset about.

We can disagree, and that is okay, life is good

Off to do some spinning again


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Cheeks of a Blighter, Why don't you pull out all of the bigoted posts that you claim LTL has posted. You won't find one, but you....that is another story..... Also you posted a pic of your self as a five year old, and you are not of the color you want people to believe, your cheeks are big, fat and white. Your pants must be on fire about now. If calling someone a liar gets me kicked off like a rodeo clown well so be it. It's just one place to post out of a million.


Oh, dear. Did you believe that picture was her??? Mistaken again!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I have received many political emails, as I am sure we all have, some of them pretty nasty. I use to just delete things like that, but during President Obamas first election campaign I stopped deleteing them. I remember receiving one from a republican friend that listed a whole bunch of lies about the president. I replied to the sender and also to everyone else that received the eamail and set the record straight and gave links where they could read the truth. I got quite a few replies back from other people that had received the email that just said thank you for the truth. The main point is that I have not received another nasty email from this person.
The other day I received an email from a friend that I use to work with. It was all about, as white people why don't we have white history month, since they have black history month, and on and on about all the special treatment African Americans receive. In checking out the email I discovered it had been posted a lot on a white supremecy web site, so I sent a quite lengthy reply to this lady and all other recipients of the email and have not heard from her since. I was quite shocked that she had those feelings as it never came up before. I told her that I have two great nieces that are both married to black men. Their Grandpa, a very dear cousin of mine, age 83, I am sure never expected that would be part of his life, but he has two beautiful grandchildren that he treasures. I believe we have some invaders on this forum and many many republicans that would have a difficult time if this came to be part of their life, and also if they have a child or grandchild that is gay and wants to marry their partner. I guses my point is, be careful those of you on the right. Your prejudices may come back to bite you in the butt.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Since many on here are calling KPG a liar. I must put in my two cents (I know that is all its worth, so you don't need to tell me).
> 
> Bratty Patty posted the "bad" words. I also copied it and sent it to Admin. She sent a reply. I noticed BP's last post was before 4am.


Thanks for your confirmation Joey. I've have many people contact me who remain completely offended by some of the posts in this thread.

I'm in no way a racist as evidenced by my posts both present and prior which anyone can easily read as I do theirs.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Oh, dear. Did you believe that picture was her??? Mistaken again!


Cheeky Blighter identified the photo she posted of a child as a self portrait. Are you telling us she lied?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly the point. The Native American tribes suffer from high levels of unemployment, alcoholism, and domestic violence despite federal intervention in the form of programs, grants, and lots of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" encouragement. None of that seems to be working, and the question is, Why?


susanmos2000
once the human spirit has been destroyed it will take Centuries to heal it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky Blighter identified the photo she posted of a child as a self portrait. Are you telling us she lied?


No, I'm telling you it was a joke.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The differences between the top 1% and those on the bottom continues to grow wider. I remember stories of how big corporations cared about their employees and the things they did for them, because it was part of their family. That doesn't happen anymore. The greed at the top is out of control. Yes of course they should have profit, that is what keeps them in business. But many corporations now are making record profits, while their employees are not even paid a living wage. Now I know the right wants to do away with unions so they can pay even less, but we really must fight to not let that happen. There will always be lower paying jobs, and people to work those jobs who make the decision for one reason or another to not stay in school or not to further their education after high school. Now if places like McDonalds and WalMart paid a living wage and put a little less in their pocket--cause you know that is the answer--they must share a little of that profit with their employees--then the young man or woman who has no hope of going to college because of not having the money could possibly save to go to school. The republican idea is to keep those poor people poor. You keep dishing out those hambergers, but don't expect a living wage cause I want more and more profit, this year better than last and next year better than this year. If you don't have healthcare, you just crawl away in the corner somewhere and die, cause it's not my problem. You made bad choices. Like Romney said, take out a loan from your parents. Boy are we ever lucky he didn't win the election.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky Blighter identified the photo she posted of a child as a self portrait. Are you telling us she lied?


Just looked at that photo again--the child in question has curly hair, but the black-and-white exposure makes it impossible to discern skin tone. The term "of color" covers a wide spectrum but frankly, who cares?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That is a great explanation, NJG, those folks at the top, those folks who invest in the stocks are getting rich on our dime. The people working for minimum wage, for $8./hr and $9./hr are eating at our expense. The Waltons are getting richer and we are paying taxes to support SNAP benefits for their employees. We are paying for their health insurance in order for the board of directors at Darden Restaurants, Inc. (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, Capital Grille) to get richer and so that they can invest in more companies. 
We will always need people to do those jobs. We should really learn to value them.



NJG said:


> The differences between the top 1% and those on the bottom continues to grow wider. I remember stories of how big corporations cared about their employees and the things they did for them, because it was part of their family. That doesn't happen anymore. The greed at the top is out of control. Yes of course they should have profit, that is what keeps them in business. But many corporations now are making record profits, while their employees are not even paid a living wage. Now I know the right wants to do away with unions so they can pay even less, but we really must fight to not let that happen. There will always be lower paying jobs, and people to work those jobs who make the decision for one reason or another to not stay in school or not to further their education after high school. Now if places like McDonalds and WalMart paid a living wage and put a little less in their pocket--cause you know that is the answer--they must share a little of that profit with their employees--then the young man or woman who has no hope of going to college because of not having the money could possibly save to go to school. The republican idea is to keep those poor people poor. You keep dishing out those hambergers, but don't expect a living wage cause I want more and more profit, this year better than last and next year better than this year. If you don't have healthcare, you just crawl away in the corner somewhere and die, cause it's not my problem. You made bad choices. Like Romney said, take out a loan from your parents. Boy are we ever lucky he didn't win the election.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just looked at that photo again--the child in question has curly hair, but the black-and-white exposure makes it impossible to discern skin tone. The term "of color" covers a wide spectrum but frankly, who cares?


Only Cheeky and a racist care what color she and the child in the photograph is.

Cheeky said the child was herself and the child was white.

Only someone who speaks in a derogatory way about someone in terms of skin color is indeed a racist.

Other than a few Libs and gallinipper just recently, did anyone even comment on the photo Cheeky posted. There were no racist comments about the photo to Cheeky who posted it.

I've attached the photo and Cheeky's post from the Smoking & Obamacare thread #20, from page 70 so all can understand what we're discussing. (also anyone can read the following comments of the photo)

Here is Cheeky's post along with the photo:



CheekyBlighter said:


> For the provincial folks on the right who never get out into the outside world let me explain to you in the British term, Cheeky Blighter. The words are used together in this context.
> I received this name as a term of affection or endearment from my dear friends in Worcster, Malvern and London, England.
> 
> *I have also posted a photo of Cheeky as a child. She is not a black male drum major as you so ignorantly posted and I am a very good dancer and can get down and jive or do a waltz with equal ease. I am just as beautiful now as when I was little.*
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't believe that is true. 
I do believe that one form of bigotry is as bad as another. 
I also believe that we are not having some kind of a contest in this country about who gets treated the worst. This is so sad to see. The spreading of misinformation and lies is wrong no matter who does it.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> What GW says is true Love the Lake. Any native Americans who live on the reservation get a free ride and if they are a tribe with casinos they all get thousands a year from the profits. I know because I have relatives who lived on reservations and no longer do. It is sad Jane knows so little about her own heritage and as pointed out maligns all others. It is also true that many of the reservations are just as poor as any urban ghetto and all the bad stuff that goes on in the city also goes on on the poor reservations. When you and your friends say that urban blacks are trash and one of you even made the kind remark,"let them kill each other" you reserve this nasty attitude for blacks only when the truth is it is happening on reservations and in poor white rural areas too but you never talk about those people being "bad". Don't any of you ever say you give a damn about Dr. King or what he stood for because if he were alive today you would be calling him a no good N ----r! Would you like me to pull out your old bigoted posts like KPG is fond of doing to her victims or would you please get the heck out of here because we love our black President and our black families and our black friends and you know how crazy we all can get. All you know or care to know is your own sick stereotype of what a black person is. You are in the wrong neighborhood my sister. Now get the H--l off my porch and out of my neighborhood. Because you are messing with the wrong black woman! If you all don't leave immediately I will be reporting all of you to Admin and this is no joke. You have pushed me too far this time. I will watch for when you leave KP and if you ever show up here again, on this thread to harass us as you have been doing as God is my witness, you will be out of here!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

NJG said:


> The differences between the top 1% and those on the bottom continues to grow wider. I remember stories of how big corporations cared about their employees and the things they did for them, because it was part of their family. That doesn't happen anymore. The greed at the top is out of control. Yes of course they should have profit, that is what keeps them in business. But many corporations now are making record profits, while their employees are not even paid a living wage. Now I know the right wants to do away with unions so they can pay even less, but we really must fight to not let that happen. There will always be lower paying jobs, and people to work those jobs who make the decision for one reason or another to not stay in school or not to further their education after high school. Now if places like McDonalds and WalMart paid a living wage and put a little less in their pocket--cause you know that is the answer--they must share a little of that profit with their employees--then the young man or woman who has no hope of going to college because of not having the money could possibly save to go to school. The republican idea is to keep those poor people poor. You keep dishing out those hambergers, but don't expect a living wage cause I want more and more profit, this year better than last and next year better than this year. If you don't have healthcare, you just crawl away in the corner somewhere and die, cause it's not my problem. You made bad choices. Like Romney said, take out a loan from your parents. Boy are we ever lucky he didn't win the election.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Our society has become mobile, people sometimes have 3 or more different professions before they retire, and if they are not proactive in saving for it, they many find themselves in trouble.

The problem Joey is that a lot of people did just as you are saying they should and saved for their retirement. Then we had 8 years of Bush policies and our economy and a lot of their money was gone. If social security had been privatized like he wanted imagine where that money would be now.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

OMG, O'Rilley actually said he was wrong and apologized on air for saying that Republicans were not invited to the MLK 50 year commemoration. Now it is time for KPG to do the same. Lets see if she is capable of admitting she was wrong.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> OMG, O'Rilley actually said he was wrong and apologized on air for saying that Republicans were not invited to the MLK 50 year commemoration. Now it is time for KPG to do the same. Lets see if she is capable of admitting she was wrong.


If she is wrong she will be mature enough apologize like Bill did last night.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> NJG - "I remember stories of how big corporations cared about their employees and the things they did for them, because it was part of their family."
> 
> This was the case when there were more jobs than workers, and when the corporations were family owned. After WWII , healthcare was offered to attract workers. They also had picnics, Christmas bonuses, vacation time, all to keep the workers they had. This was a time when someone could start working right out of high school and work there for 45 years and retire with good benefits.
> 
> ...


All the things you said don't change a thing about my comment. The big corporations would not have all that money in their pockets is it wern't for the workers, mobil or not, big corporation or small, on us soil or foreign. When they are making record breaking profits, but there employees are stuck in the same place they were last year and the year before, it only means one thing. There is a lot of greed going on.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> pictures of the three teens (two black, one mixed race) who shot in cold blood an Ausssie who was a guest and out for a jog in America. Why? Because they wanted something to do to cure their boredom and because one murderer said 90% of white people deserve to die because he hates them.


No, one was black, one was mixed race, and one was white.



> Then, I suspect we all could post the photos of the 16 million aborted black (only) babies in the past few years mostly murdered by Planned Parenthood who targets the black communities. Why? Because the unwed birth rate in black communities is approximately 78% give or kill a few. Its a great marketplace for murder (according to them).


http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0101.pdf
See Table 101. AbortionsNumber and Rate by Race: 1990 to 2007. You will find that white women had more abortions than black women did, despite the fact that black women have a 72% unwed pregancies. And Planned Parenthood is far, far, far more than abortion, which you'd know if you read about it or interacted with women who use it. In the absence of something like Obamacare it is for millions of women the only healthcare they have.



> When all those are posted, you shouldn't forget to post the thousands of murdered (mostly young adults) but many children too, killed in Chicago and/or Detroit by black-on-black crime.


http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/uc...w-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data

"Concerning murder victims for whom race was known, 50.0 percent were black, 46.0 percent were white, and 2.6 percent were of other races. Race was unknown for 175 victims. (Based on Expanded Homicide Data Table 2.)"

"Of the offenders for whom race was known, 52.4 percent were black, 45.2 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were of other races. The race was unknown for 4,077 offenders."

Seems like the statistics are pretty much the same for whites and blacks. And while most blacks are killed by blacks...the same is true for whites. So what's your point?



> Get out of the past and discuss the improvement of the future for blacks and any race that was part of MLK Jr.'s American Dream. I'll agree that all these pictures have a place in history. However, deal with the problems of today and the recent past not problems with permanent solutions already solved and in the history books.


While things are better from the civil rights POV, there is still a long way to go when it comes to hate crimes.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...t-released/annual-hate-crimes-report-released

"Of the 6,222 reported hate crimes, 6,216 were single-bias incidents46.9 percent were racially motivated"


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Check your facts. Republicans invited all had "prior appointments", were "out of town", " ill health", in other words, each and every one had an excuse not to attend. Read some of the news links, you will find it. If I say check out Huffington Post, that may make you think it's biased reporting.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No it is called capitalism, It is what our country was founded on. If we did not have it, there would be many more poor people than we have today.


And capitalism certainly isn't perfect, is it?


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> All crimes are hate crimes!


Hopefully that was tongue-in-cheek. Because they patently aren't...


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> No it is called capitalism, It is what our country was founded on. If we did not have it, there would be many more poor people than we have today.


http://usbudget.blogspot.com/2013/01/wages-productivity-and-corporate-profits.html

" In the third quarter, corporate earnings were $1.75 trillion, up 18.6% from a year ago, according to last week's gross domestic product report. That took after-tax profits to their greatest percentage of GDP in history.

But the record profits come at the same time that *workers' wages have fallen to their lowest-ever share of GDP.*

The actual numbers and sources for this and the following graph can be found at this link. As can be seen, corporate profits are at their highest percentage of GDP since 1947 when this series began. Likewise wages and salary accruals are at their lowest percentage of GDP.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Absolutely, certainly the senior President Bush has had enough publicity about his health issues that we all know for sure that is legitimate. The younger President Bush didn't look so well himself in an interview I saw with him about the Syrian mess. The rest? who would want them anyway?



MindyT said:


> Check your facts. Republicans invited all had "prior appointments", were "out of town", " ill health", in other words, each and every one had an excuse not to attend. Read some of the news links, you will find it. If I say check out Huffington Post, that may make you think it's biased reporting.


----------



## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think MLK would be ecstatic to see Barak Obama in the White House today, but he would be disillusioned with the disparity in school systems, in unequal opportunity, in the act of the Supreme Court chopping up the Voting Rights Act, in states once again trying to suppress the minority vote. Does it seem that in the 50 years since the March on Washington African-Americans have attained true equality?


I don't think we have attained 'true' equality, but it is a hell of a lot better than 50 years ago. The way we lived then was truly unbearable. My mother moved me from the segregated south to give me some relief from 'jim crow' laws. We were refugees in our own country. It pains me today to even think about those dark days.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It is related, I believe, to a forced dependence and impotence. Generations of having no decision making ability as well as that total loss of status...



Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> once the human spirit has been destroyed it will take Centuries to heal it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Go for it, Cheeky. I admire the fire in you and am sure you have the courage of your convictions.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> What GW says is true Love the Lake. Any native Americans who live on the reservation get a free ride and if they are a tribe with casinos they all get thousands a year from the profits. I know because I have relatives who lived on reservations and no longer do. It is sad Jane knows so little about her own heritage and as pointed out maligns all others. It is also true that many of the reservations are just as poor as any urban ghetto and all the bad stuff that goes on in the city also goes on on the poor reservations. When you and your friends say that urban blacks are trash and one of you even made the kind remark,"let them kill each other" you reserve this nasty attitude for blacks only when the truth is it is happening on reservations and in poor white rural areas too but you never talk about those people being "bad". Don't any of you ever say you give a damn about Dr. King or what he stood for because if he were alive today you would be calling him a no good N ----r! Would you like me to pull out your old bigoted posts like KPG is fond of doing to her victims or would you please get the heck out of here because we love our black President and our black families and our black friends and you know how crazy we all can get. All you know or care to know is your own sick stereotype of what a black person is. You are in the wrong neighborhood my sister. Now get the H--l off my porch and out of my neighborhood. Because you are messing with the wrong black woman! If you all don't leave immediately I will be reporting all of you to Admin and this is no joke. You have pushed me too far this time. I will watch for when you leave KP and if you ever show up here again, on this thread to harass us as you have been doing as God is my witness, you will be out of here!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excuse me dear, but you're in the wrong place unless you are a liberal now.



lovethelake said:


> Oh how wrong you are again. In fact I applaud kpg for editing her reply because it was so offensive. Anyone that would write such a reply and the person defending that response are the ones that have major personal, emotional and psychological problems


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sumpleby says... "No, one was black, one was mixed race, and one was white."

Interesting isn't it how the young man who was murdered by this group is described by the person you responded to as a "guest".
I have seen many people (to be clear, I am not saying that poster) complain of Affirmative Action students take the place of a young white person in college. This young man was an IMMIGRANT not a guest, here on a student visa taking not just a seat at college,but, a spot on a sports team. 
There was certainly no reason for this young man who seemingly had a great future ahead of him to die, it is a terrible shame. Please, don't mistake my statement as excusing what happened. It is difficult to state the facts without sounding unsympathetic. He left a lovely gf behind. He seemed to be a really nice kid. 
These 3 young men were apprehended while going after a young African American student who they had been harassing for some time. The thugs are just bad, (allegedly). Regardless of race they seem to be just nasty guys.



sumpleby said:


> While things are better from the civil rights POV, there is still a long way to go when it comes to hate crimes.
> 
> http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...t-released/annual-hate-crimes-report-released
> 
> "Of the 6,222 reported hate crimes, 6,216 were single-bias incidents46.9 percent were racially motivated"


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It was not,
> 
> If you break a window with a brick at the home of a homosexual, it is a hate crime.
> 
> But if someone breaks a window at a church where they are meeting talking about homosexuality as a sin , it is not a hate crime.


You said "all crimes" are hate crimes. That simply isn't true. Now you are bringing in straw men. And a hate crime is a hate crime, period. Although, last time I looked people weren't dragging Christians out in this country and beating or killing them simply because they are Christians...



> Therefore, in the eyes of the law, homosexuals are better than heterosexuals.


Your logic is faulty, along the lines of "When the dog barks, the mail is delivered. Therefore the dog causes mail delivery."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It is related, I believe, to a forced dependence and impotence. Generations of having no decision making ability as well as that total loss of status...


I agree, Jelun. African- and Native Americans lost everything--homelands, language, culture, control of their own destinies. It's no wonder these groups still face daunting challenges in the 21st century.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Good luck, it is nearly impossible to help someone who doesn't want to learn.



sumpleby said:


> Your logic is faulty, along the lines of "When the dog barks, the mail is delivered. Therefore the dog causes mail delivery."


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Since many on here are calling KPG a liar. I must put in my two cents (I know that is all its worth, so you don't need to tell me).
> 
> Bratty Patty posted the "bad" words. I also copied it and sent it to Admin. She sent a reply. I noticed BP's last post was before 4am.


KPG has one setting, that is to insult, hurt and put down anyone she possibly can. It will be a very cold day in a very hot place when she changes. The only way to "change" her is to reject and ignore her. And, oh yeah, how terrible that anyone would post anything before 4am. Your two cents worth is absolutely worthless and a waste of your time to bother to post it here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excuse me dear, but you are lost. You have friends elsewhere who appreciate your thoughts. Anyone with an open mind with liberal ideas is welcome here.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't take it personally jelun2. MIB ignores requests from both parties and is offensive always. Did you actually expect she'd honor your and Susan's requests because you are all fellow Liberals? MIB attacks as an equal-opportunity offender and antagonist. Be proud. Be forewarned, her word means nothing (she said she'd delete the offensive images after awhile but did not do so).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree wholeheartedly.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm now glad you put up those pictures, Maid. They're a sharp reminder that such horrors didn't end with Abolition.
> Quite honestly, I don't understand why the folks in these pictures--particularly the second, which appears to date from the 50s--aren't tracked down and prosecuted. There's no statute of limitations on murder, and every single one of them is an accessory. At the very least their names should be made public. People (and I use the term loosely) who participated in lynchings shouldn't be able to walk half a block without someone grabbing them by the shoulders, looking them squarely in the eye, and demanding to know if they understand NOW what they did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> If we think about those who are protesting about wage inequality and the refusal of businesses with billion dollar net profit to pay the people who do the business a living wage I think that we can picture
> people rising up and demanding freedom and justice again, soon.
> There was an article in the Boston Sunday Globe Magazine, maybe 15 years ago, that laid out a scenario for a revolution in 2023 (I think) here in the US. I think it will come sooner.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree 100% AW. Our ideas of vulgar are the same.



aw9358 said:


> For me, the views expressed here and elsewhere, with correct spelling and grammar sometimes, are far more offensive than a few "vulgarities".


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I will agree that the wages have fallen. Many reasons: Change to part time, less than 30 hour work week because of Obamacare., rising cost of health insurance, rising cost of gas, rising cost of everything, more workers than available jobs.


Oh please. Obamacare has nothing to do with the increase of part-time jobs. I started work with my city over 19 years ago and for the first 10 years I worked not only did they have more part-time than full-time employees, they went so far as to call them "temporary" employees when most of them had been working there for 15 and more years. On top of that, to maintain the "temporary" fiction these employees--*this is true*--were "fired" every 6 months and "rehired" the next day. All to avoid having to pay benefits. And this is a city that has millions of dollars in surplus every year. A lot of employers have been doing the part-time route for just as long.

The fallacy that right wingers wave aloft is that if minimum wage is raised, jobs will be lost. Funny. Every time the minimum wage is increased that doesn't happen--and in fact, the economy improves.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MIB, I agree. It's easier when the bad guys wear black hats.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Ah, there 's the classic KPG who makes assumptions without checking out whether they are true or not. When I tried to delete the images jelun2 and Susan found offensive I couldn't do it. Therefore, I used the "Report Issue" option as I thought it would be the quickest way to get that post deleted. Admin has very kindly done as I asked. I suppose you'll find something wrong with that as you never are happier than when you can say something unpleasant, and can't manage to enjoy it when someone does the right thing. Bless your heart, and I hope you don't change one bit.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Cheeky.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane - While it was true several years ago that many native Americans were forced out of their original homelands and on to reservations it is not true anymore and hasn't been for many years. I have Cherokee and Ojibwe in my family and yes I have been on several reservations in my life including Red Lake, White Earth, Leech Lake and Grand Portage to name a few. I have very great sympathy for native Americans but please don't say things that are not true. I know it can be very difficult to leave the reservation and move to the city but it is done all the time. You don't help the the cause of your own people or my relatives when you say things like that. When you come out here and rant at people as you frequently do you only turn people away from you. Please if you are going to post on this thread I am asking you the same as I asked everyone else to be nice and don't call others names. I have attached one link concerning what has happened to native Americans which doesn't begin to cover all the wrongs that were done by whites but you don't need to add to the confusion. Thank you.
> 
> www.irp.wisc.edu/publications/focus/pdfs/foc121f.pdf‎


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts wrote:
Don't take it personally jelun2. MIB ignores requests from both parties and is offensive always. Did you actually expect she'd honor your and Susan's requests because you are all fellow Liberals? MIB attacks as an equal-opportunity offender and antagonist. Be proud. Be forewarned, her word means nothing (she said she'd delete the offensive images after awhile but did not do so).

You flaming trouble maker, I have spoken my piece to Maiden..., I don't need and don't appreciate any interference from you. 
She and I are both adults and we will be fine. 
I learned long ago that the only person one can control is the self. 
I have no idea if my request crossed wires, was not seen, was seen and discarded... it really doesn't matter. She owes me nothing. 
I can say that she has certainly been more respectful of me and my feelings than you have. So, please, crawl back under your rock and wait for the sun to come out and warm you tomorrow.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Personnally, I love a little vulgarity and profanity once in a while. 
Well OK, more frequently than once in a while.



damemary said:


> I agree 100% AW. Our ideas of vulgar are the same.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I also can testify to being harassed. It is difficult, but not impossible to fight back. As someone who has tried everything else, I am breaking the habit of fighting back by responding to posts.

I must say how much I appreciate having people with open minds to discuss world events. Thank you all.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ladies, please ignore KPG aka knitpresentgifts this poster or should I say poser. She has only one goal and that is to destroy this thread. She is a very malicious and nasty person and I know as I used to foolishly engage her in pointless arguments. I have given that bad habit up and she has not. She will go read all your previous posts since you have started on KP and will repost them out on threads as she has done to me and others in the past. She has no shame. She will rip you to shreds as you see she is trying to do to some other posters here and she will just as quickly do it to you. She is what I like to call a "holy roller" who runs right over the top of folks and she is the self appointed judge of all of us and knows the condition of everyone's soul and will not hesitate to tell you whether you are going to heaven or hell. She knows all and sees all and will steam roll you right into the ground. What she won't accept is defeat so liberal ladies let's let her know she cannot win and should show a little class and respect for others and make a graceful exit. I have given up trying to figure out what she is,or who she is or what makes her tick. Just keep your distance from her and don't look her in the eye. Some believe she is a soul less zombie doomed to roam the earth but I doubt it. All in good fun, KPG, but seriously you know what they say about company and fish, they both start to smell after three days and your time is up. Thanks for being such a good sport!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am teaching myself to skip any posting from the usual suspects.



GWPlver said:


> I'm ignoring all others except those in the Liberal arena. They are not worthy of my time.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have preached that, I am attempting that, I am doing pretty well at that. When someone maligns someone (MIB)who was doing what they thought was best for the "greater good" however, (insert vulgarity) 'em.



damemary said:


> I am teaching myself to skip any posting from the usual suspects.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you Cheeky. You're not alone.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder.



alcameron said:


> Just a reminder
> Extinguishing a negative behavior calls for consistence.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm with you Cheeky. You're not alone.


No, she isn't. I myself am disgusted by what's been going on here--30+ pages of mostly rightie-inspired nonsense. Enough is enough.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It was not,
> 
> If you break a window with a brick at the home of a homosexual, it is a hate crime.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Personnally, I love a little vulgarity and profanity once in a while.
> Well OK, more frequently than once in a while.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Amen Sister!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right, of course.



jelun2 said:


> I have preached that, I am attempting that, I am doing pretty well at that. When someone maligns someone (MIB)who was doing what they thought was best for the "greater good" however, (insert vulgarity) 'em.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Wonderful thread! I am 64 years old now and retired early due to arthritis. As a short, round, gray-haired lady with a cane, I have discovered that equal rights are lacking in so many more ways than I could have imagined... age, stature, nimbleness, and income are stacking up there with race, color, religion, gender and economic status as issues.
We are fighting an environmental battle against a NGL pipeline here in Kentucky that stands to put our karst aquifer in harm's way... Suddenly the rights of the residents to their own water supply is being questioned by big energy companies and ignored by our governor ... And since we are primarily oldsters around here, we seem to have no future value to the system. Equal rights ... pay attention every day, and in every way!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

An apology to all who have come to this thread expecting a discussion of liberal ideas....by liberals. Please stick with us. You'll be able to identify the trouble makers and skip their ravings. Welcome friends.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome. Thank you for sharing. You are among kindred spirits.



midwegian said:


> Wonderful thread! I am 64 years old now and retired early due to arthritis. As a short, round, gray-haired lady with a cane, I have discovered that equal rights are lacking in so many more ways than I could have imagined... age, stature, nimbleness, and income are stacking up there with race, color, religion, gender and economic status as issues.
> We are fighting an environmental battle against a NGL pipeline here in Kentucky that stands to put our karst aquifer in harm's way... Suddenly the rights of the residents to their own water supply is being questioned by big energy companies and ignored by our governor ... And since we are primarily oldsters around here, we seem to have no future value to the system. Equal rights ... pay attention every day, and in every way!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I also can testify to being harassed.


Oh, you must mean you, too, receive threatening and private messages that harass you like this message I received from Cheeky Blighter, the Liberal original poster and creator of this thread.

You, know, she said she treats all with equality, open arms, respects all points of view and welcomes all to post on 'her' thread as long as posts are respectful, etc.,

I have never made a racist comment on KP ever. Actually, I have posted more positive points of view and supported and defended blacks and minority communities more often than most of the posters in this particular thread. I've posted and spoke more often and with knowledge about Martin Luther King, Jr.'s words and beliefs and questioned and tried to encourage a discussion on the furtherance of equal rights for all and probably more than most of the Libs on this thread to date.

I live my life in the same way. Again, do not take my word for it, review my prior posts to see if I'm speaking the truth.

CheekyBlighter cannot point out _one_ post of mine that justifies her words to me. She threatens, bullies, and defames me both privately and publicly and there is no defense of her words.

I stand behind my words and wonder how many who willingly attack me do the same. Read their prior posts as well.

Here is Cheeky's recent private message to me for everyone to ponder and emulate: (I've enlarged the screen shot so it is legible).

_"KPG - You have crossed the line on POV with your overt racism and I am going to report this to Admin if you do not leave within the hour and never post on the thread again. I have tried repeatedly to be nice to you and even tried to good naturedly poke fun with you today. You have only one goal and you know what that is and it is to destroy this thread and get rid of all Black people if it were in your power.

Admin is not going to want to deal with a racial situation but you have brought this on yourself. You can't tell me anything about recists as I have dealt with people like you all my life and I am not putting up with you anymore.

I am a proud multiracial woman and you have greatly offended me and my family. Leave now. I won't ask you again. You are one of the most hateful people I have ever encountered and I have met quite a few. You don't know the hurt you have caused me but now I am telling you. I don't want any apologies from you as they would be meaningless. If Dr. King were alive today you would be treating him like you treat all other Blacks and be calling him the N word. _
Cheeky"

August 30 15:48:27


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> In case you haven't noticed lovethelake I am going to report you to Admin along with your friends for overt racism. Leave now you have crossed any lines of decency and I will also report KPG and Jane and any of the rest of you. I am a proud woman of color and you have gone to far. Go to some other thread and get off of this one as none of you has an ounce of decency in your body. I want you out of my site now!


You sent me a private PM titled "leave POV" but you do not have the power to tell me anything as I will report you to Admin for telling me to leave this site!

I nor KPG has said anything about racism, but several have made the statement about "old white men" being in power. So reporting will be made on several people on this thread.

I am also a proud woman of color--just look at my Avatar!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, you must mean you, too, receive threatening and private messages that harass you like this from Cheeky Blighter, the Liberal original poster and creator of this thread.
> 
> You, know, she who says she treats all with equality, open arms, respects all points of view and welcome all to post as long as posts are respectful, etc., etc, etc.
> 
> ...


I have not opened my PM from Cheeky, but she cannot order me to do anything.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Wow.... didn't take long for that to turn into a cat fight. We are talking about equal and fair treatment for all people here. Let's lay off the labeling and have an open discussion. How can we create effective ways to cope w/ inequality, whatever mask it wears? Too much about the problem and not enough about the solutions.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Check your facts. Republicans invited all had "prior appointments", were "out of town", " ill health", in other words, each and every one had an excuse not to attend. Read some of the news links, you will find it. If I say check out Huffington Post, that may make you think it's biased reporting.


Thank you for stating the facts!


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

My thanks to Cheeky for giving me an opportunity to take a small part in the observance of Dr. Martin Luther Kings historic speech by thinking back on what it meant to me. 

At the time, I was a small town girl from Iowa living in a girls residential club in Chicago, determined to start an exciting new life in the big city. Busy with school and jobs, we didnt have much contact with the newspapers or television, but we picked up on the fact that integration was being proposed and challenged in the South. We often congregated in the hallways after supper for girl talk, and one evening the question came up of why all the girls in this residence were white. One of the women who was from Louisiana stated, with passion, that if there were any ******* (the term at the time) she would not stay at the club. We were astonished, and asked her why. Her answer was vague, They are different. They smell different. This was my very first encounter with racism. Now I understood why a photo was necessary on the application to stay at what I now realized was an exclusive club. 

So began my education on race relations. The rest of the decade brought marriage and three babies born very close together, and again I hardly knew what was going on in the nation. But if I had had the opportunity, I like to think that I would have made my way to Mississippi to walk for the cause. 

I want to add: To the KPer who wants to read only how black people were affected, Im very sorry to burden you with this message from a white matron. I believe that we are all in this together, and need each other to make things better.

To those who have not been able to cooperate with Cheekys request for rational liberal discussion, Im sorry for you, too, because you are wasting your own time, since it is very easy to brush over any and all of your comments. Theres no worry that I am missing out on anything worthwhile reading.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Wow.... didn't take long for that to turn into a cat fight. We are talking about equal and fair treatment for all people here. Let's lay off the labeling and have an open discussion. How can we create effective ways to cope w/ inequality, whatever mask it wears? Too much about the problem and not enough about the solutions.


I'm not sure, to be honest. Inequality is easy enough to recognize when it comes in the form of blatant institutionalized racism (Jewish "quotas" in universities, "no colored" signs on shops and restaurants)--much harder to combat when it's subtle and devious (the glass ceiling, channeling women and minorities into less-prestigious and lower-paying jobs).


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

And those more subtle inequalities are the ones that are sapping the vigor out of us. Our hopes are what is at issue here, whether you are holding your firstborn, wet from the womb, or trying to make ends meet long enough to have a dignified old age.... It's faced by victims ranging from too fat, not pretty/handsome, too poor, to uneducated, and so on. How do we go about breaking the pattern? Personal experience has opened my eyes... now that I experience being thought of as less of a person, I can see how, in my life, I have been impatient and intolerant of others, in everything from road rage and disparaging remarks, to avoiding talking to certain others if I pass them on the street. It was a jolt when I finally realized it. Rev. King is a hero because he took on a savage, entrenched and highly visible form of bigotry based on the color of skin. The world tilted on its axis when he took that stand. But how do we weed out the insidious growths in our daily existence that poison the human existence? How can we be the change we want to see?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

In case you haven't read my posts about deleting the lynching pictures,let me assure you I took your feelings seriously and the pictures have been deleted.


jelun2 said:


> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> Don't take it personally jelun2. MIB ignores requests from both parties and is offensive always. Did you actually expect she'd honor your and Susan's requests because you are all fellow Liberals? MIB attacks as an equal-opportunity offender and antagonist. Be proud. Be forewarned, her word means nothing (she said she'd delete the offensive images after awhile but did not do so).
> 
> You flaming trouble maker, I have spoken my piece to Maiden..., I don't need and don't appreciate any interference from you.
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Cheeks of a Blighter, Why don't you pull out all of the bigoted posts that you claim LTL has posted. You won't find one, but you....that is another story..... Also you posted a pic of your self as a five year old, and you are not of the color you want people to believe, your cheeks are big, fat and white. Your pants must be on fire about now. If calling someone a liar gets me kicked off like a rodeo clown well so be it. It's just one place to post out of a million.


Thank you for your comment as we have a difficult time with these gals as they dish out the bad words but when we defend ourselves they report us to Admin for nothing as we do not make racist remarks.

Cheeky turns everything around & tries to make it racism which it is not.

I'm an American Indian, but Cheeky has continually slurred me about my race but now that she has admitted to being biracial, she is screaming racism! How convenient!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> At the time, I was a small town girl from Iowa living in a girls residential club in Chicago, determined to start an exciting new life in the big city. Busy with school and jobs, we didnt have much contact with the newspapers or television, but we picked up on the fact that integration was being proposed and challenged in the South. We often congregated in the hallways after supper for girl talk, and one evening the question came up of why all the girls in this residence were white. One of the women who was from Louisiana stated, with passion, that if there were any ******* (the term at the time) she would not stay at the club. We were astonished, and asked her why. Her answer was vague, They are different. They smell different. This was my very first encounter with racism. Now I understood why a photo was necessary on the application to stay at what I now realized was an exclusive club.


It seems our first experience with blatant racism leaves an undeniable mark on our psyche, like remembering exactly what where we were and what we were doing when Kennedy was shot or war was declared. 
My first real experience with bigotry came when I was quite young, still in elementary school--my mother and I had gone to visit her mother, who lived in a small California town. After we arrived Grandma and her oldest son took us on a brief tour, and I noticed a collection of shabby trailers and small houses near the river. When I asked who lived there, Granny and Uncle answered in unison, "That's N--gger Town!"
And that was in supposedly liberal California in the 70s. Wow.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, it is bed time so nighty, night!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wow! I just turned 64, retired early due to arthritis and and am a short, round gray-haired lady. No cane yet, but I am seriously considering getting one as my left knee seems to have gone on permanent strike. When I'm baking and get some flour on myself I look like the quintesential grandmother.

Isn't the disrespect we get at our age amazing? My feet and my elbows are pretty sharp so I can at least keep my place in any line... at least I can still force myself to move quickly...Once upon a time older people were respected and thought to have some wisdom that came with their years. I notice that I do get treated with respect by people from Immigrant-Americans from cultures that value their elders. You're right in that we have to pay attention every day and in every way or we just get pushed aside.


midwegian said:


> Wonderful thread! I am 64 years old now and retired early due to arthritis. As a short, round, gray-haired lady with a cane, I have discovered that equal rights are lacking in so many more ways than I could have imagined... age, stature, nimbleness, and income are stacking up there with race, color, religion, gender and economic status as issues.
> We are fighting an environmental battle against a NGL pipeline here in Kentucky that stands to put our karst aquifer in harm's way... Suddenly the rights of the residents to their own water supply is being questioned by big energy companies and ignored by our governor ... And since we are primarily oldsters around here, we seem to have no future value to the system. Equal rights ... pay attention every day, and in every way!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Maid in Bedlam... yes those sharp elbows are great! It's also great to be able to do things that others cannot believe you are doing... my favorite is using the men's room if the line for the women's is too long for me to make it... Guys are wonderfully forgiving I find. I have braced some on their abuse of dogs, and they are quite meek...maybe it's the cane. But there are still so many barriers, visible and invisible... have to patient and crafty, my dear!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> And those more subtle inequalities are the ones that are sapping the vigor out of us. Our hopes are what is at issue here, whether you are holding your firstborn, wet from the womb, or trying to make ends meet long enough to have a dignified old age.... It's faced by victims ranging from too fat, not pretty/handsome, too poor, to uneducated, and so on. How do we go about breaking the pattern? Personal experience has opened my eyes... now that I experience being thought of as less of a person, I can see how, in my life, I have been impatient and intolerant of others, in everything from road rage and disparaging remarks, to avoiding talking to certain others if I pass them on the street. It was a jolt when I finally realized it. Rev. King is a hero because he took on a savage, entrenched and highly visible form of bigotry based on the color of skin. The world tilted on its axis when he took that stand. But how do we weed out the insidious growths in our daily existence that poison the human existence? How can we be the change we want to see?


One way perhaps is to declare a "blanket" goal that every American citizen have the basics: adequate food, shelter, and education, and work towards that. After a short time it would be obvious who had or could get access to these things and who could not, then analyze the whys and wherefores.

During the Civil Rights era it was pretty clear what the problems were for African-Americans, but if not this formula might have clarified things: lack of education--dropping out after being forced to attend a school a five-mile walk away; lack of shelter--house was burned to the ground by the KKK; inadequate food--severely reduced income due to inability to obtain an interview for an office job after the manager stated flatly that they didn't hire "********". It wouldn't take a braniac to realize that bigotry was at the bottom of all of these problems.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No it is called capitalism, It is what our country was founded on. If we did not have it, there would be many more poor people than we have today.


Call it capitalism if you want, but it no longer works for everyone. It works for those that have the money and the control. The number of poor people is increasing and the top 1% are getting richer all the time. This is becoming an oligarchy.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Call it capitalism if you want, but it no longer works for everyone. It works for those that have the money and the control. The number of poor people is increasing and the top 1% are getting richer all the time. This is becoming an oligarchy.


One thing: American capitalism was a lot "purer" before the Great Depression, and most people suffered for it--no minimum wage, no workers' comp, no unemployment insurance. None of these things are inherently part of the capitalist package, but thank God for them.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you, MaidInBedlam, I was almost sure that you had, but, as I said initially I was avoiding that segment of "pages" so that I wouldn't have to view anything that I didn't want to see. 
I did go to see "The Butler" and while it was a pretty clean depiction saw a representation of a lynching there. Man's inhumanity to man is so distressing. 
I do appreciate that you made that effort. I even understand the point that you were making. 
I am tired and on my way to bed, it has been a long week and will be a longer weekend. 
Stay well, keep on keepin' on. j
I do hope to squeeze in a PM over the weekend if you don't mind.



MaidInBedlam said:


> In case you haven't read my posts about deleting the lynching pictures,let me assure you I took your feelings seriously and the pictures have been deleted.


 :thumbup:


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> One way perhaps is to declare a "blanket" goal that every American citizen have the basics: adequate food, shelter, and education, and work towards that. After a short time it would be obvious who had or could get access to these things and who could not, then analyze the whys and wherefores.
> 
> During the Civil Rights era it was pretty clear what the problems were for African-Americans, but if not this formula might have clarified things: lack of education--dropping out after being forced to attend a school a five-mile walk away; lack of shelter--house was burned to the ground by the KKK; inadequate food--severely reduced income due to inability to obtain an interview for an office job after the manager stated flatly that they didn't hire "********". It wouldn't take a braniac to realize that bigotry was at the bottom of all of these problems.


There's not a wonderful answer that sheds brilliant light on the problem, inspiring a tide of change. And we are left with 'what can I do?' In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't see like there are any overarching effective options. That's when we get into '-isms' and partisanship and from there to cat fights, tying ourselves up in knots defending our postures and our territories. What about approaching it with the 'thin edge of the wedge' ... the thinnest edge of that wedge being in our own neighborhoods and communities. I think politics and religion can help the process along, but they seem to be better used as condiments rather than as the main course. I'm a sign-carrying liberal and a Democrat in a red state, trying to make the best decisions I can. I hate to admit it, but I find myself avoiding personal choices on equality and fairness in favor of the party line. How discouraging that is at 2 in the morning!!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There are a lot of things I'd rather not see, and I could understand that you didn't want to see the pictures I posted. I got a flood of responses, and returned them with a flood of responses. I'm glad you got my message. You and Susan were the two people whose feelings meant the most to me even though you are new here. Perhaps especially because you are new here and I don't want to scare off any sensible liberal folks. You're welcome to PM me anytime.

One of the things I can't stand at all are the public service ads about adopting abused and unwanted animals. I have broken all speed records changing the cchannel to get away from the sight of those poor animals. Actually, sometimes my mother, who I live with or maybe she lives with me, beats me to the remote and she's 85!


jelun2 said:


> Thank you, MaidInBedlam, I was almost sure that you had, but, as I said initially I was avoiding that segment of "pages" so that I wouldn't have to view anything that I didn't want to see.
> 
> I've got to plan to see "The Butler". It sounds like a good movie.
> I did go to see "The Butler" and while it was a pretty clean depiction saw a representation of a lynching there. Man's inhumanity to man is so distressing.
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> One of the things I can't stand at all are the public service ads about adopting abused and unwanted animals. I have broken all speed records changing the cchannel to get away from the sight of those poor animals. Actually, sometimes my mother, who I live with or maybe she lives with me, beats me to the remote and she's 85!


Wow! I know all about that--can't bear to see starving and mistreated dogs and cat. I don't watch much TV but my husband and son do--fortunately they've been trained by me to zip past them if I happen to be in the room.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow! I know all about that--can't bear to see starving and mistreated dogs and cat. I don't watch much TV but my husband and son do--fortunately they've been trained by me to zip past them if I happen to be in the room.


Same here, Susan. Just imagine the same commercial with the children. It's heartbreaking.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Same here, Susan. Just imagine the same commercial with the children. It's heartbreaking.


It would be--in fact, getting about upset over the plight of mistreated animals makes me feel a bit guilty when I know the same and worse is happening to children all over the world.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It would be--in fact, getting about upset over the plight of mistreated animals makes me feel a bit guilty when I know the same and worse is happening to children all over the world.


Since congress decided to cut back food stamp programs, I'm afraid we will see more here in the US of A.

I saw those lynching pictures on google and whoever said she couldn't believe the looks on the faces of the white men standing around them is right. Some were actually smiling. Such hate!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There are a lot of things I'd rather not see, and I could understand that you didn't want to see the pictures I posted. I got a flood of responses, and returned them with a flood of responses. I'm glad you got my message. You and Susan were the two people whose feelings meant the most to me even though you are new here. Perhaps especially because you are new here and I don't want to scare off any sensible liberal folks. You're welcome to PM me anytime.
> 
> One of the things I can't stand at all are the public service ads about adopting abused and unwanted animals. I have broken all speed records changing the cchannel to get away from the sight of those poor animals. Actually, sometimes my mother, who I live with or maybe she lives with me, beats me to the remote and she's 85!


MIB I saw them on google. They were hard to look at, but it did happen. For some it was hard to see. You did the right thing.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> My thanks to Cheeky for giving me an opportunity to take a small part in the observance of Dr. Martin Luther Kings historic speech by thinking back on what it meant to me.
> 
> At the time, I was a small town girl from Iowa living in a girls residential club in Chicago, determined to start an exciting new life in the big city. Busy with school and jobs, we didnt have much contact with the newspapers or television, but we picked up on the fact that integration was being proposed and challenged in the South. We often congregated in the hallways after supper for girl talk, and one evening the question came up of why all the girls in this residence were white. One of the women who was from Louisiana stated, with passion, that if there were any ******* (the term at the time) she would not stay at the club. We were astonished, and asked her why. Her answer was vague, They are different. They smell different. This was my very first encounter with racism. Now I understood why a photo was necessary on the application to stay at what I now realized was an exclusive club.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Since congress decided to cut back food stamp programs, I'm afraid we will see more here in the US of A.
> 
> I saw those lynching pictures on google and whoever said she couldn't believe the looks on the faces of the white men standing around them is right. Some were actually smiling. Such hate!


I know--that really grabbed me by the throat as well. Something about those grinning faces and the modern clothes makes it horribly obviously that this wasn't something that happened all that long ago. The people in those photos should be tracked down and prosecuted as accessories to murder.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Unfortunately, the haters don't consider it murder. More like eradication. Just like Hitler did with the Jews.
Do you remember hearing of the black man in Texas?
some white guys out looking for "fun"tied him to the back of their pick up truck and dragged him for miles until he was dead. They were prosecuted to the full extent, but it didn't seem like that was enough in my eyes.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

double post


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Unfortunately, the haters don't consider it murder. More like eradication. Just like Hitler did with the Jews.
> Do you remember hearing of the black man in Texas?
> some white guys out looking for "fun"tied him to the back of their pick up truck and dragged him for miles until he was dead. They were prosecuted to the full extent, but it didn't seem like that was enough in my eyes.


I do remember that--was in the 80s, right? That was horrible, but at least an attempt was made to punish the perpetrators. To me lynchings were even worse because they required a whole mob to carry out--and an entire town/county/state to protect the guilty. None of the people in those photos were the least bit camera shy--they knew they had nothing to fear.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hi, Cheeky. Thanks for starting such an inspiring thread!
> The Civil Rights Era was slightly before my time, but wow I still remember my mother's stories about how people fought back peacefully against segregation. My favorite was the how the "whites only" supermarkets were dealt with. My parents and others would fill shopping carts to the brim, then abandon them in the aisles. Store managers were fit to be tied as of course every item had to be returned to the shelves, and soon they were dealing with hundreds of such carts per day. They got the message very quickly!


That is too cool! Where I grew up segregation was there.
The west side of town is where the African Americans lived.
Black entertainers could not stay at the hotels they performed in or eat in any of the restaurants. It changed very soon after we moved there. I guess I have always lived in diverse cities and never gave skin color another thought. My father was a bigot. I think they got Archie Bunker's character from him. It didn't rub off of any of my siblings or me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I do remember that--was in the 80s, right? That was horrible, but at least an attempt was made to punish the perpetrators. To me lynchings were even worse because they required a whole mob to carry out--and an entire town/county/state to protect the guilty. None of the people in those photos were the least bit camera shy--they knew they had nothing to fear.


You are correct. The sheriff's and lawmen were more than likely the Grand Wizards. These guys found that they didn't need the white sheets to hide behind.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
Since many on here are calling KPG a liar. I must put in my two cents (I know that is all its worth, so you don't need to tell me).

Bratty Patty posted the "bad" words. I also copied it and sent it to Admin. She sent a reply. I noticed BP's last post was before 4am. 

And it is before 4 am again this morning that I am posting.
What's your point? Where is my reply on KPG's screen shot that she posted? Not there obviously.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are correct. The sheriff's and lawmen were more than likely the Grand Wizards. These guys found that they didn't need the white sheets to hide behind.


So true. It's kind of depressing to realize the vileness human beings are capable of. I know a lot of Christians claim that Christ (or the Holy Spirit or the Lord) keeps people in line, but I have my doubts--I'm sure most or all of those spectators were church members, and each would have said that they were filled to the brim with the spirit of the Lord. *sigh*

Well, on that note...see you tomorrow, ladies. Bazinga!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I don't think we have attained 'true' equality, but it is a hell of a lot better than 50 years ago. The way we lived then was truly unbearable. My mother moved me from the segregated south to give me some relief from 'jim crow' laws. We were refugees in our own country. It pains me today to even think about those dark days.


I can't even begin to imagine what it was like to be in your shoes Uyvonne. But growing up I saw plenty of prejudice and racism. Your mom was a brave woman to uproot you and move to a place that she thought would give you more peace and opportunities. It seems to me that even though the south is no longer segregated that nothing in the attitudes of whites have changed much.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I was thinking about those who were fighting for freedom and civil rights and how the prominent 5 were assinated for their trouble. Abraham Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr.
Very sad. They all held so much promise.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I recently read a book, the name of which I cannot remember, but the subject matter was the flight of the freed slaves to the North where they found decent jobs. While sad in some parts, it was also uplifting. And it was an important time in history.


If the title comes back to you, GW, please let me know. I would love to read it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> That was one of the most ignorant and insensitive comments ever written. When you live a year in their shoes, tell me how those casinos worked for you
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_social_statistics_of_Native_Americans
> 
> http://www.nrcprograms.org/site/PageServer?pagename=naa_livingconditions


Those casinos were supposed to help the tribes build better schools on the reservations, better housing, and more job opportunities for NA's. It is nobody's fault but their own if they didn't apply the money coming in from the casinos to those causes. After overhead costs and pay checks, there would be plenty left to endow the reservations. wonder where the money is going?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was thinking about those who were fighting for freedom and civil rights and how the prominent 5 were assinated for their trouble. Abraham Lincoln, John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr.
> Very sad. They all held so much promise.


I believe they were assassinated for the very reason that they were great men who would have brought more positive change to our country than they managed to fit into their short lives.

Even though I am a pacifist, I am a great admirer of Malcom X. He was actually able to reject the bunkum Islam of Elijah Mohammed, become a mainstream Muslim and work his way out of his hatred for white people. When he did that and began a Pan-African miovement and a US organization that included whites he signed his death warrant, and Louis Farrakhan made sure it was carried out.

The NOI was a cult of personality (Elijah Mohammed's) and he only had to say a few light words about Malcolm being a problem to make sure that problem was solved. Check out a fairly recent biography by Manning Marable called "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention".


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Wow.... didn't take long for that to turn into a cat fight. We are talking about equal and fair treatment for all people here. Let's lay off the labeling and have an open discussion. How can we create effective ways to cope w/ inequality, whatever mask it wears? Too much about the problem and not enough about the solutions.


You have to consider the source and just ignore them.
They do this in every thread a lib starts.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

...and stop and frisk policies and being watched/followed in department stores, that clutching of purses... actions that make one feel worth less.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure, to be honest. Inequality is easy enough to recognize when it comes in the form of blatant institutionalized racism (Jewish "quotas" in universities, "no colored" signs on shops and restaurants)--much harder to combat when it's subtle and devious (the glass ceiling, channeling women and minorities into less-prestigious and lower-paying jobs).


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think, I certainly cannot be sure, that a lot of groups were scammed by the casino experts that seem to be necessary to run a successful casino. 
I don't have any direct experience so I can't swear to it. Part of my thinking comes from the Abramoff scandal in Florida revolving around the casino mess there and watching the frenzy for casino development here in Mass., this doesn't make it so. It just may explain some of the harm done.



BrattyPatty said:


> Those casinos were supposed to help the tribes build better schools on the reservations, better housing, and more job opportunities for NA's. It is nobody's fault but their own if they didn't apply the money coming in from the casinos to those causes. After overhead costs and pay checks, there would be plenty left to endow the reservations. wonder where the money is going?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great analysis MIB. Thanks.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I believe they were assassinated for the very reason that they were great men who would have brought more positive change to our country than they managed to fit into their short lives.
> 
> Even though I am a pacifist, I am a great admirer of Malcom X. He was actually able to reject the bunkum Islam of Elijah Mohammed, become a mainstream Muslim and work his way out of his hatred for white people. When he did that and began a Pan-African miovement and a US organization that included whites he signed his death warrant, and Louis Farrakhan made sure it was carried out.
> 
> The NOI was a cult of personality (Elijah Mohammed's) and he only had to say a few light words about Malcolm being a problem to make sure that problem was solved. Check out a fairly recent biography by Manning Marable called "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I believe they were assassinated for the very reason that they were great men who would have brought more positive change to our country than they managed to fit into their short lives.
> 
> Even though I am a pacifist, I am a great admirer of Malcom X. He was actually able to reject the bunkum Islam of Elijah Mohammed, become a mainstream Muslim and work his way out of his hatred for white people. When he did that and began a Pan-African miovement and a US organization that included whites he signed his death warrant, and Louis Farrakhan made sure it was carried out.
> .


I'm not sure how I feel about Malcolm X. His anger toward white America was understandable, but I wasn't crazy about his solutions for improving the plight of African-Americans. Like you, Maid, he recognized that many black families were matriarchs...but he felt that the answer was a campaign to put the men back in the driver's seat. Urging African-American women to be docile and submissive to the men in their lives seems, to me, to be taking a giant step backward.

One thing I've always wondered: Malcolm X was always seen as an angry man in contrast to MLK--but was he really? I think it's significant that Malcolm was raised in the North and King in the South. Of course the North wasn't a bastion of racial harmony by any means, but Malcolm X probably did experience less overt racism then Southern African-Americans. Would King have been less of a pacifist if he too had grown up in Chicago or New York?


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## bcdado (May 27, 2013)

Bigotry is an awful thing. I had two incidents that I can remember when I was young that pointed that out to me personally. I am 100% Italian. One day my grandparents and parents were discussing my cousin (born here and her mom also) and how her parents were outraged and her dad (came from Italy) ready to disown her. Her "crime"? Her father was from one part of Italy and the family of the boy (born here, handsome, and smart) my cousin was in love with came from another. To my young ears that just rang of total stupidity. Another thing that happened was when some friends and I went to Coney Island and went into the "Fun House" - very dark and scary! The person next to me and I started holding hands and kept each other from freaking out. When we emerged into the daylight, lo and behold, the girl that I was holding hands with was not one of my white friends but a young black girl. We were both a little taken aback but smiled at each other and went on our ways. So if you are blind, does it matter if you are black or white or brown or green??? We are all the same under our skins and no one is any better than anyone else. I am 70 years old with a way liberal (not "lib") POV and it pains me to see the hatred, bitterness, and meanness exhibited here by a few posters who obviously haven't learned that lesson yet. Why continue to post where you are not wanted? So sad!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Destructive Farce of $15.00 Minimum Wage & Melancholia
> by Charles Payne, a person of color whose opinion I respect.
> 
> http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/charlespayne/2013/08/31/the-destructive-farce-of-1500-minimum-wage--melancholia-n1688179/page/full


Scanned the article briefly...I actually agree that it's probably not possible to pay the clerks at McDonald's a living wage--but quite honestly, I take that as a sign that perhaps such jobs shouldn't exist.
Even though slaves played a vital part of the 19th century economy, their labor was undervalued by American society. More than one slave spent his or her lifetime waving the palmetto fans over the heads of the white quality--performing as human scarecrows in the fields--carrying the mistress' sewing box from room to room as she moved throughout the house.
None of these tasks were essential, but they existed because slave labor was seen as a vast reservoir that could be squandered on insignificant and trifling tasks. In some ways minimum-wage labor is the same thing, and the end result is the same: men and women who spend their lives at the grill flipping hamburger patties or returning unpurchased items to the clothing racks at Wal-Mart.
People need fulfilling work in order to be happy, and they certainly need a reasonable paycheck in order to survive. It's unethical to waste human energy on jobs that are truly worth only a pittance. We need to re-examine such tasks and determine if they really matter as much as we've been led to believe.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CONTINUATION OF THE SLAVERY TIMELINE

THE CHAIN TIGHTENS

An alleged slave revolt in New York City leads to violent outbreaks. Nine whites are killed and eighteen slaves are executed. 

1712
New York declares it illegal for blacks, Indians, and slaves to murder other blacks, Indians, and slaves.

1712
New York forbids freed blacks, Indians, and mulatto slaves from owning real estate and holding property. 

1712
In Charleston, South Carolina, slaves are forbidden from hiring themselves out. 

1715
Rhode Island legalizes slavery.

1715
Maryland declares all slaves entering the province and their descendants to be slaves for life. 

1717
New York enacts a fugitive slave law.

1723
Virginia outlaws manumission.

1724
French Louisiana prohibits slaves from marrying without the permission of their owners.

1730-1750
The number of male and female slaves imported to the North American British colonies balances out for the first time.

SLIVERS OF HOPE

The Spanish reverse a 1730 decision and declare that slaves fleeing to Florida from Carolina will not be sold or returned. 

1732
Slaves aboard the ship of New Hampshire Captain John Major kill both captain and crew, seizing the vessel and its cargo. 

1733
Quaker Elihu Coleman's A TESTIMONY AGAINST THAT ANTI-CHRISTIAN PRACTICE OF MAKING SLAVES OF MEN is published. 

1735
Following English law, Georgia prohibits the importation and use of black slaves. 

1735
Georgia petitions Britain for the legalization of slavery.

1735
Louis XV, King of France, declares that when an enslaved woman gives birth to the child of a free man, neither mother nor child can be sold. Further, after a certain time, mother and child will be freed. 

1738
Georgia's trustees permit the importation of black slaves.

1738
Spanish Florida promises freedom and land to runaway slaves.

Slaves in Stono, South Carolina, rebel, sacking and burning an armory and killing whites. The colonial militia puts an end to the rebellion before slaves are able to reach freedom in Florida. 

1740
South Carolina passes the comprehensive "***** Act," making it illegal for slaves to move abroad, assemble in groups, raise food, earn money, and learn to read English. Owners are permitted to kill rebellious slaves if necessary.

1740
Georgia and Carolina attempt to invade Florida in retaliation for the territory's policy toward runaways. 

1749
Georgia repeals its prohibition and permits the importation of black slaves. 

SEEDS OF REBELLION

1751
George II repeals the 1705 Virginia act by which slaves were deemed real estate. 

1758
Pennsylvania Quakers forbid their members from owning slaves or participating in the slave trade.

1760
New Jersey prohibits the enlistment of slaves in the militia without their master's permission.

1767
The Virginia House of Burgess boycotts the British slave trade in protest of the Townsend Acts. Georgia and the Carolinas follow suit.

1770
Escaped slave, Crispus Attucks, is killed by British forces in Boston, Massachusetts. He is one of the first colonists to die in the war for independence.

1772
James Albert Ukawsaw Gronniosaw writes the first autobiographical slave narrative.

FIRST SEPARATE BLACK CHURCH IS FOUNDED IN SOUTH CAROLINA

1773
Slaves in Massachusetts unsuccessfully petition the government for their freedom.

1773
Phillis Wheatley becomes the first published African-American poet when a London publishing company releases a collection of her verse.

1774
The First Continental Congress bans trade with Britain and vows to discontinue the slave trade after the 1st of December. 

1774
Connecticut, Rhode Island, and Georgia prohibit the importation of slaves. 

1774
Virginia takes action against slave importation.

1775
The slave population in the colonies is nearly 500,000. In Virginia, the ratio of free colonists to slaves is nearly 1:1. In South Carolina it is approximately 1:2.

1775
Georgia takes action against slave importation.

1775
The first abolition society is founded in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

1775
In April, the first battles of the Revolutionary war are waged between the British and Colonial armies at Lexington and Concord, Massachusetts. Black Minutemen participate in the fighting.

1775
In July, George Washington announces a ban on the enlistment of free blacks and slaves in the colonial army. By the end of the year, he reverses the ban, ordering the Continental Army to accept the service of free blacks.

1775
In November, Virginia Governor John Murray, Lord Dunmore, issues a proclamation announcing that any slave fighting on the side of the British will be liberated.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

When I came to this Country I knew that there were race problems but I was shocked to see and feel them first hand.
I as a white Foreigner could go anywhere and do anything except vote. I had no restrictions. 
As I made friends with People of colour I experienced real ugliness first hand. We were refused being seated in Restaurants, entering a public Swimming Pool, going to the Theater and encountered endless restrictive situations.
Now years later I see Groups of Whites trying hard to get back to those days.
Whites see their race shrinking and think that if they keep others in check, all will be well for them.
They need to wake up and realize that their superiority is over for all times.
Whites will be read about in History books only some day.
We Whites will be no more and it may be for the better of Mankind.
To the person who wrote that perhaps only People of colour should be involved in this discussion I like to say that it takes People with Heart to bring about change and all of our Hearts are of the same colour. 
I also like to state that for years White People who wanted to reach out to those of colour were afraid to do so openly.
Some of us who had the guts to do so sure had our share of
mistreatment. 
Can't recall how many times the Police was on our tail simply because we were a mixed bunch.
All College Students from here and abroad going for Masters Degrees and not some unruly Consortium.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Ingried said:


> When I came to this Country I knew that there were race problems but I was shocked to see and feel them first hand.
> I as a white Foreigner could go anywhere and do anything except vote. I had no restrictions.
> As I made friends with People of colour I experienced real ugliness first hand. We were refused being seated in Restaurants, entering a public Swimming Pool, going to the Theater and encountered endless restrictive situations.
> Now years later I see Groups of Whites trying hard to get back to those days.
> ...


They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Ingried said:


> When I came to this Country I knew that there were race problems but I was shocked to see and feel them first hand.
> I as a white Foreigner could go anywhere and do anything except vote. I had no restrictions.
> As I made friends with People of colour I experienced real ugliness first hand. We were refused being seated in Restaurants, entering a public Swimming Pool, going to the Theater and encountered endless restrictive situations.
> Now years later I see Groups of Whites trying hard to get back to those days.
> ...


Cow patties. Where is that happening today?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've both given me much to consider. Thanks for the viewpoints.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about Malcolm X. His anger toward white America was understandable, but I wasn't crazy about his solutions for improving the plight of African-Americans. Like you, Maid, he recognized that many black families were matriarchs...but he felt that the answer was a campaign to put the men back in the driver's seat. Urging African-American women to be docile and submissive to the men in their lives seems, to me, to be taking a giant step backward.
> 
> One thing I've always wondered: Malcolm X was always seen as an angry man in contrast to MLK--but was he really? I think it's significant that Malcolm was raised in the North and King in the South. Of course the North wasn't a bastion of racial harmony by any means, but Malcolm X probably did experience less overt racism then Southern African-Americans. Would King have been less of a pacifist if he too had grown up in Chicago or New York?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Thanks for sharing.



bcdado said:


> Bigotry is an awful thing. I had two incidents that I can remember when I was young that pointed that out to me personally. I am 100% Italian. One day my grandparents and parents were discussing my cousin (born here and her mom also) and how her parents were outraged and her dad (came from Italy) ready to disown her. Her "crime"? Her father was from one part of Italy and the family of the boy (born here, handsome, and smart) my cousin was in love with came from another. To my young ears that just rang of total stupidity. Another thing that happened was when some friends and I went to Coney Island and went into the "Fun House" - very dark and scary! The person next to me and I started holding hands and kept each other from freaking out. When we emerged into the daylight, lo and behold, the girl that I was holding hands with was not one of my white friends but a young black girl. We were both a little taken aback but smiled at each other and went on our ways. So if you are blind, does it matter if you are black or white or brown or green??? We are all the same under our skins and no one is any better than anyone else. I am 70 years old with a way liberal (not "lib") POV and it pains me to see the hatred, bitterness, and meanness exhibited here by a few posters who obviously haven't learned that lesson yet. Why continue to post where you are not wanted? So sad!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


Intermarriage may, ultimately, be the solution to problematic race relations. Even now most of us probably relatives "of color", and that's an excellent thing. Even the most hard-hearted bigot can be won over by a baby's charming ways--especially if he or she is a grandchild!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Scanned the article briefly...I actually agree that it's probably not possible to pay the clerks at McDonald's a living wage--but quite honestly, I take that as a sign that perhaps such jobs shouldn't exist.
> Even though slaves played a vital part of the 19th century economy, their labor was undervalued by American society. More than one slave spent his or her lifetime waving the palmetto fans over the heads of the white quality--performing as human scarecrows in the fields--carrying the mistress' sewing box from room to room as she moved throughout the house.
> None of these tasks were essential, but they existed because slave labor was seen as a vast reservoir that could be squandered on insignificant and trifling tasks. In some ways minimum-wage labor is the same thing, and the end result is the same: men and women who spend their lives at the grill flipping hamburger patties or returning unpurchased items to the clothing racks at Wal-Mart.
> People need fulfilling work in order to be happy, and they certainly need a reasonable paycheck in order to survive. It's unethical to waste human energy on jobs that are truly worth only a pittance. We need to re-examine such tasks and determine if they really matter as much as we've been led to believe.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


EveMCooke

I have seen a Neanderthal Man in Germany. I think you have an excellent point.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Cheeky, 

Thanks so much for the Slavery Timeline. It's painful to read at times, but I think it's important to do so. We must feel it in our souls to truly understand the injustice. 

There is no way for me to fathom continuing bigotry.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

If everybody earns a decent Wage, everybody can pay a reasonable Price.
Every Dollar Workers earn goes back into the Economy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your experience and thoughts.



Ingried said:


> When I came to this Country I knew that there were race problems but I was shocked to see and feel them first hand.
> I as a white Foreigner could go anywhere and do anything except vote. I had no restrictions.
> As I made friends with People of colour I experienced real ugliness first hand. We were refused being seated in Restaurants, entering a public Swimming Pool, going to the Theater and encountered endless restrictive situations.
> Now years later I see Groups of Whites trying hard to get back to those days.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or if the bigot's attention is called to themselves.



susanmos2000 said:


> Intermarriage may, ultimately, be the solution to problematic race relations. Even now most of us probably relatives "of color", and that's an excellent thing. Even the most hard-hearted bigot can be won over by a baby's charming ways--especially if he or she is a grandchild!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I must say how grateful I am to read this thread and feel whole. I know it is unpleasant at times when the opposition tries to derail us. Let's learn to skip and ignore....and enjoy the discussion.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dear Cheeky,
> 
> Thanks so much for the Slavery Timeline. It's painful to read at times, but I think it's important to do so. We must feel it in our souls to truly understand the injustice.
> 
> There is no way for me to fathom continuing bigotry.


damemary
It won't. 
I saw the melting of different Races in Europe.
The young are getting well educated in classroom with Pupils from many Nations and their common language is English and they see no colour, there is no Racism or Bigotry. 
To them that is totally unacceptable.
Yes each country has a handful of Haters but they will not be winning in the long run no matter how hard they try.
Republicans fear our Young to become well educated and rejecting the ways of their Elders.
White old Men shaking in their Slippers. Love to observe that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


Ingried and Eve thank you. I think you may me on to something about Neanderthal Man. I know Darwin was correct and Creationism is ludicrous at best. There is a certain segment of the population that would rewrite the history of America as well as the world if they could to justify their beliefs. We can never let them do that or as they say we will only repeat our past mistakes having learned nothing at all. Denying reality is like sticking your head in the sand. All you end up with is a mouth full of dirt.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ingried and Eve thank you. I think you may me on to something about Neanderthal Man. I know Darwin was correct and Creationism is ludicrous at best. There is a certain segment of the population that would rewrite the history of America as well as the world if they could to justify their beliefs. We can never let them do that or as they say we will only repeat our past mistakes having learned nothing at all. Denying reality is like sticking your head in the sand. All you end up with is a mouth full of dirt.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You've explained it!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Intermarriage may, ultimately, be the solution to problematic race relations. Even now most of us probably relatives "of color", and that's an excellent thing. Even the most hard-hearted bigot can be won over by a baby's charming ways--especially if he or she is a grandchild!


susanmos2000
Intermarriage and the attitude of the Young will bring about many changes.
In 2 years time I have seen a tremendous change in Europe and for the better. Much better.
We are limping behind and that unfortunately has been by design.
BUT change is inevitable.


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## gmarie (Feb 8, 2012)

Uyvonne said:


> I am so proud today to be an American. I could not say that 50 years ago. I was only 12 years old when Dr. King made that magnificent speech. We all knew that he was a special man. His dream gave dreams to so many that we could strive to reach our fullest potential.


He was truly a special man. It breaks my heart that there are still so many people in the USA that don't understand, "equality for all" means ALL. I am still proud to be an American, and have seen lots of improvement in some peoples thinking. We still have a ways to go, and with God's guidance we will make it!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> If everybody earns a decent Wage, everybody can pay a reasonable Price.
> Every Dollar Workers earn goes back into the Economy.


Very true--it's why having a minimum wage is so important. Business owners screamed bloody murder when the concept was introduced and claimed it would "ruin" them, but I think even they have seen the light: people paid well have more money to spend on food and consumer goods.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amen. Amen.



gmarie said:


> He was truly a special man. It breaks my heart that there are still so many people in the USA that don't understand, "equality for all" means ALL. I am still proud to be an American, and have seen lots of improvement in some peoples thinking. We still have a ways to go, and with God's guidance we will make it!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Crispus Attucks (c. 1723  March 5, 1770) was an American slave, merchant seaman and dockworker of Wampanoag and African descent. Many people think he was the first person shot dead by British redcoats during the Boston Massacre, in Boston, Massachusetts.[2]
Little is known for certain about Crispus Attucks beyond that he, along with Samuel Gray and James Caldwell, died "on the spot" during the incident.[3] Two major sources of eyewitness testimony about the Boston Massacre, both published in 1770, did not refer to Attucks as a "*****," or "black" man; it appeared that Bostonians accepted him as mixed race. Historians disagree on whether Crispus Attucks was a free man or an escaped slave; but agree that he was of Wampanoag and African descent.
While the extent of his participation in events leading to the massacre is unclear, Attucks in the 19th century became an icon of the anti-slavery movement. He was held up as the first martyr of the American Revolution along with others shot dead. In the early 19th century, as the Abolitionist movement gained momentum in Boston, supporters lauded Attucks as a black American who played a heroic role in the history of the United States [4] Because Attucks had Wampanoag ancestors, his story also holds special significance for many Native Americans.[5]


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How many recessions have the consumers bought us out of?

I am thinking living wage now.



susanmos2000 said:


> Very true--it's why having a minimum wage is so important. Business owners screamed bloody murder when the concept was introduced and claimed it would "ruin" them, but I think even they have seen the light: people paid well have more money to spend on food and consumer goods.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gmarie said:


> He was truly a special man. It breaks my heart that there are still so many people in the USA that don't understand, "equality for all" means ALL. I am still proud to be an American, and have seen lots of improvement in some peoples thinking. We still have a ways to go, and with God's guidance we will make it!


Welcome gmarie - I hope you will be a regular on this site.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Malcom X was indeed an angry man, with a strong background of African Nationalism. This helped to fuel some of his beliefs and ways to solve the problems of racism. The NOI was oriented to male supremacy without respect for women. Women's programs in the NOI were designed to talk down to women and train them, like animals, to behave "properly".

NOI's version of Islam was incredibly weird, and bore little resemblance to true Islam. I admire Malcom X for breaking away from the NOI which had given him a good home for a long time. The transgressions of Elijah Mohammed were outrageous but it was a feat of strength to speak about them and reject him and his bogus philosophy.

Yes, advocating male supremacy was a step backward, but I believe it came first from Elijah Mohammed who was a womanizer, a con man and somehow charismatic enough to be credible to his followers. Many of his folllowers were poor and steeped in the effects of general American racism. I find it easy to understand the appeal of the NOI for poorly educated and badly treated black men.

Malcom X's statement that racism must be fought "by any means necessary" was a pretty scary concept, and it was brave to say so, but I believe he was right. Many a revolution has used whatever means they had to fight on.

What impressed me about Malcolm X and led me to admire him are the facts that he called Elijah out on his womanizing and the fathering of many children on his secretaries and assistants, all young black women who believed he was the savior of blacks exactly as he said he was. He also sucked up a lot of the money raised by members of the NOI to live a life of luxury while the rank and file of the NOI remained poor.

In the last month's of his life he changed radically. His pilgrimage to Mecca, his discovery of true Islam, his acceptance by African leaders in Africa worked a miracle, I think. I believe it's very difficult for an angry hater of white people to change as much as Malcolm did. He didn't manage to lose his belief in male supremacy before he was most foully assasinated, but I like to believe he would have if he had had a longer life.

MLK might, and I emphasize I'm saying "might", have turned out to be another angry black man, but growing up in Alabama probably wasn't any better than growing up in Chicago or New York. I can't manage to answer the question about whether he woild have espoused violence as a means to fight racism. MLK was steeped in a religious background that made him what he was. He and Malcolm X even made a baby step toward having a common cause before Malcolm was assassinated.

Well, I've treated you, and anyone else who reads this post, to another one of my lectures. Some have criticized me for this, but the professorial tendency is alive and well in me and I don't really want to root it out. Those who participate in KP's political topics are the only people who have ever criticized me for my tendency to lecture.


> One thing I've always wondered: Malcolm X was always seen as an angry man in contrast to MLK--but was he really? I think it's significant that Malcolm was raised in the North and King in the South. Of course the North wasn't a bastion of racial harmony by any means, but Malcolm X probably did experience less overt racism then Southern African-Americans. Would King have been less of a pacifist if he too had grown up in Chicago or New York?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ingried said:


> As I made friends with People of colour I experienced real ugliness first hand. We were refused being seated in Restaurants, entering a public Swimming Pool, going to the Theater and encountered endless restrictive situations.
> Now years later I see Groups of Whites trying hard to get back to those days.
> Whites see their race shrinking and think that if they keep others in check, all will be well for them.
> mistreatment.


 Ingried - Interesting point of view from someone who was not born here. 
A friend postulated that he thinks the white are scared of losing the control they have enjoyed for so many years. Suddenly, minorities in the US and immigrants from other countries are taking more jobs that are at C level. They are highly educated and determined. 
It will be a new world in the next few years.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ingried said:


> susanmos2000
> Intermarriage and the attitude of the Young will bring about many changes.
> In 2 years time I have seen a tremendous change in Europe and for the better. Much better.
> We are limping behind and that unfortunately has been by design.
> BUT change is inevitable.


I am heartened to see that more companies are including all races in their television and written promotions. I saw a commercial the other day and noticed it featured a racially integrated couple with a child and I thought, good for them!!! Maybe some day that prejudicial gap will be even smaller. I welcome change!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> They say that humans left Africa and spread throughout the entire world. Those initial emigrants who left Africa were not white, but black, so our ancestors were not white but black. We have lost the dark pigmentation in our skin. They also say that Neanderthal Man was fairer skinned, so maybe the racists are descended from Neanderthals?


Restrictions? Voter ID for one. Affirmative action in colleges for two.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MIB, you can 'lecture' me anytime. I find your information and your viewpoints fascinating. Much to examine and compare with my thoughts.

For example, there is something deep in me that says there is a time to fight back. Just me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

One of the beliefs of pro-integration people was that intermarriage would result in a "race" of people who would all look a lot alike, and have the genes of many races.


susanmos2000 said:


> Intermarriage may, ultimately, be the solution to problematic race relations. Even now most of us probably relatives "of color", and that's an excellent thing. Even the most hard-hearted bigot can be won over by a baby's charming ways--especially if he or she is a grandchild!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Malcom X was indeed an angry man, with a strong background of African Nationalism. This helped to fuel some of his beliefs and ways to solve the problems of racism. The NOI was oriented to male supremacy without respect for women. Women's programs in the NOI were designed to talk down to women and train them, like animals, to behave "properly".
> 
> NOI's version of Islam was incredibly weird, and bore little resemblance to true Islam. I admire Malcom X for breaking away from the NOI which had given him a good home for a long time. The transgressions of Elijah Mohammed were outrageous but it was a feat of strength to speak about them and reject him and his bogus philosophy.
> 
> ...


I enjoy your lectures!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thank you, Maid, for your lecture. Sometimes some of us need one, and I found it most interesting and informative. And, I think it stirred me to read a little more about him.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Also the demographics are changing quickly. The minorities will be the majority. The current majority will learn to work together or one man, one vote will swamp them.



GWPlver said:


> Ingried - Interesting point of view from someone who was not born here.
> A friend postulated that he thinks the white are scared of losing the control they have enjoyed for so many years. Suddenly, minorities in the US and immigrants from other countries are taking more jobs that are at C level. They are highly educated and determined.
> It will be a new world in the next few years.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The Destructive Farce of $15.00 Minimum Wage & Melancholia
> by Charles Payne, a person of color whose opinion I respect.
> 
> http://finance.townhall.com/columnists/charlespayne/2013/08/31/the-destructive-farce-of-1500-minimum-wage--melancholia-n1688179/page/full


Excellent article Joey. Thanks for posting. It restated what you and I have been posting for awhile now. If you want to prosper, get educated, have integrity, work hard, apply yourself, don't take on the entitlement attitude and you'll succeed.

I didn't agree with the articles closing statements that most Conservatives missed the boat because of their dislike of the present President so they didn't invest in the market.

All those I know, including my family, invested 'all in' and have seen great returns rewarded for the great risks we took.

Capitalism doing its best work!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ingried, I love that you said hearts are all the same color. Thanks. :thumbup: :thumbup:   :!: :!:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Who is number 5? You have only listed 4.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I didn't notice the interracial aspect of the commercial (Cheerios) at first. I'm buying a lot of Cheerios to celebrate. I understand there was quite a brouhaha at first.



GWPlver said:


> I am heartened to see that more companies are including all races in their television and written promotions. I saw a commercial the other day and noticed it featured a racially integrated couple with a child and I thought, good for them!!! Maybe some day that prejudicial gap will be even smaller. I welcome change!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> MIB, you can 'lecture' me anytime. I find your information and your viewpoints fascinating. Much to examine and compare with my thoughts.
> 
> For example, there is something deep in me that says there is a time to fight back. Just me.


Absolutely. She has much to say, and it's always well-informed and interesting. Bravo!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

bcdado said:


> Bigotry is an awful thing. Why continue to post where you are not wanted? So sad!


Hmmmm, sounds like your very definition of bigotry is not being applied. Don't you believe in equality for all and just discuss how justice is blind? Why would anyone who believes all are welcome and created equally write such a statement and not welcome everyone? I wouldn't, why did you?

Doesn't sound like 'lesson learned.'


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I didn't notice the interracial aspect of the commercial (Cheerios) at first. I'm buying a lot of Cheerios to celebrate. I understand there was quite a brouhaha at first.


I remember hearing about that--it's a bit disturbing that such a family could still be seen as "controversial", but at least the commercial did air. That's definitely a sign of progress.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jean Baptiste Point du Sable (or Point de Sable, Point au Sable, Point Sable, Pointe DuSable)[n 1](before 1750[n 2]  August 28, 1818) is regarded as the first permanent resident of what became Chicago, Illinois. Little is known of his life prior to the 1770s. In 1779, he was living on the site of present-day Michigan City, Indiana, when he was arrested by the British military on suspicion of being an American sympathizer in the American Revolutionary War. In the early 1780s he worked for the British lieutenant-governor of Michilimackinac on an estate at what is now the city of St. Clair, Michigan, before moving to settle at the mouth of the Chicago River. He is first recorded living in Chicago in early 1790, having apparently become established sometime earlier. He sold his property in Chicago in 1800 and moved to St. Charles, Missouri, where he died on August 28, 1818.
Point du Sable has become known as the "Founder of Chicago". In Chicago, a school, museum, harbor, park and bridge have been named, or renamed, in his honor; and the place where he settled at the mouth of the Chicago River in the 1780s is recognized as a National Historic Landmark, now located in Pioneer Court.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bcdado, Welcome to you. Just swat the fly away. Glad to have you.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Thank you, Maid, for your lecture. Sometimes some of us need one, and I found it most interesting and informative. And, I think it stirred me to read a little more about him.


"The Autobiography of Malcolm X"is a bit idealized but a good place to start. Alex Haley who wrote "Roots" assisted in the writing of it. A more in-depth biography is Manning Marable's "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention". It's long, but extremely interesting and informative.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Found the book I was mentioning earlier. "It's The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration" by Isabel Wilkerson. Excellent read. I found another book but have not read it called "The Promised Land" by Nicholas Lehmann.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Restrictions? Voter ID for one. Affirmative action in colleges for two.


I'm sorry - I responded to the wrong post. My above statement was to Ingried about restrictions that are continuing today in regard to minorities.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> "The Autobiography of Malcolm X"is a bit idealized but a good place to start. Alex Haley who wrote "Roots" assisted in the writing of it. A more in-depth biography is Manning Marable's "Malcolm X: A Life of Reinvention". It's long, but extremely interesting and informative.


Thanks for the title, Maid--I'm definitely going to look it up. I read Malcolm X years ago, and I'd like to expand my understanding of the man.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Found the book I was mentioning earlier. "It's The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration" by Isabel Wilkerson. Excellent read. I found another book but have not read it called "The Promised Land" by Nicholas Lehmann.


GWPIver
"The Warmth of the Other Sun" is really a wonderful book. Recommended reading.
I shall read "The Promised Land" - thank you.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Cow patties. Where is that happening today?


lovethelake
So sorry that you seem blind and deaf and live in isolation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ingried, I love that you said hearts are all the same color. Thanks. :thumbup: :thumbup:   :!: :!:


MIB - Thanks so much for all your contributions to the thread. Music has always been an honest form of expression of the times in which people are living. 
I think we all should be thinking of some more topics that we on the liberal left would enjoy discussing. Any one tilting in that direction please feel free to open up or continue on with the current theme of what Dr. King and the Civil Right's Movement meant to us, our history of Slavery and where we are now. We are all in this boat together and we understand change is happening and none of us desires or wants to retreat into the "good old bad old days". MIB more music please.

As Mr. Dylan said;

Come gather 'round people 
Wherever you roam 
And admit that the waters 
Around you have grown 
And accept it that soon 
You'll be drenched to the bone 
If your time to you 
Is worth savin' 
Then you better start swimmin' 
Or you'll sink like a stone 
For the times they are a-changin'.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> MIB - Thanks so much for all your contributions to the thread. Music has always been an honest form of expression of the times in which people are living.
> I think we all should be thinking of some more topics that we on the liberal left would enjoy discussing. Any one tilting in that direction please feel free to open up or continue on with the current theme of what Dr. King and the Civil Right's Movement meant to us, our history of Slavery and where we are now. We are all in this boat together and we understand change is happening and none of us desires or wants to retreat into the "good old bad old days". MIB more music please.
> 
> As Mr. Dylan said;
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Phillis Wheatley 
c.1754 - 1784

Phillis Wheatley was the first African American, the first slave, and the third woman in the United States to publish a book of poems.

Kidnapped in West Africa and transported aboard the slave ship Phillis to Boston in 1761, she was purchased by John Wheatley as a servant for his wife. Young Phillis quickly learned to speak English and to read the Bible with amazing fluency.

Because of her poor health, obvious intelligence, and Susannah Wheatley's fondness for her, Phillis was never trained as a domestic; instead she was encouraged by the Wheatleys to study theology and the English, Latin and Greek classics. She published her first poem in 1767, and six years later, she published a book, Poems on Various Subjects. That same year, John Wheatley emancipated her.

Wheatley achieved international renown, traveling to London to promote her book and being called upon as well as received by noted social and political figures of the day -- including George Washington, to whom she wrote a poem of praise at the beginning of the war, and Voltaire, who referred to her "very good English verse."

Wheatley lived in poverty after her 1778 marriage to John Peters, a free black Bostonian. Although Wheatley advertised for subscriptions to a second volume of poems and letters, she died before she was able to secure a publisher. Her final manuscript was never found.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Cow patties. Where is that happening today?


I was thinking the same thing. Instead of concentrating on what can and should be done to bring the black race more prosperity in the present day, the discussion centers around the past, the grievances and historical events that happened 300+ years ago.

Yes, blacks were treated horrifically, yes, it was wrong. But America is the strongest and most compassionate Nation on earth and has made fantastic changes to correct our wrongs.

However, most only want to discuss the horrors and relive the past. Not one race has ever prospered by doing such and the black people living in America today need help and they need solutions now. Discussing slavery and inequality does nothing for them today or in the future.

I've yet to hear solutions or even discussion how anyone is assisting blacks today.

I will begin posting black men and women who are alive today who are making positive changes and strides to the furtherance of the black community.

This thread is missing those facts and faces which is the intent of the thread.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

One must study the past to develop the future. This is such a great discussion.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I was thinking the same thing. Instead of concentrating on what can and should be done to bring the black race more prosperity in the present day, the discussion centers around the past, the grievances and historical events that happened hundreds of years ago.
> 
> I've yet to hear solutions or even discussion how anyone is assisting blacks today.


We have our cow chip throwing contest in Sept. would anyone be interested to throw a few. :roll: :roll: :?:


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> I didn't notice the interracial aspect of the commercial (Cheerios) at first. I'm buying a lot of Cheerios to celebrate. I understand there was quite a brouhaha at first.


damemary
Since the uproar about the interracial Family I switched from Cornflakes to Cheerios.
Consumer Power against Racism.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> We have our cow chip throwing contest in Sept. would anyone be interested to throw a few. :roll: :roll: :?:


theyarnlady
Your contribution to a better Society is remarkable.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> One must study the past to develop the future. This is such a great discussion.


So true, GW.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."--George Santayana


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Ingried said:


> theyarnlady
> Your contribution to a better Society is remarkable.


Not I but the Town near me. It's an annual event. Honest, I think it is to funny for words.

Not to worry about my contribution's I do more than you think, but do not feel the need to announce it to the world, don't have to brag just do it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Ingried - Interesting point of view from someone who was not born here.
> A friend postulated that he thinks the white are scared of losing the control they have enjoyed for so many years. Suddenly, minorities in the US and immigrants from other countries are taking more jobs that are at C level. They are highly educated and determined.
> It will be a new world in the next few years.


I thought you posted, in fact, I know you posted that the black race does not have good places of education (colleges and universities) so they are not highly educated. I posted a list of the historical black educational institutions.

So which is the case - are they highly educated or not?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> One must study the past to develop the future. This is such a great discussion.


GWPIver
You are so right.
Our Young have observed the dim Past and are working on a brighter future.
They will succeed.
As black Women have come from Maids to University Matrons, black Men will be progressing from poor to Professors.
All they need is a job and a little encouragement.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

gmarie said:


> He was truly a special man. It breaks my heart that there are still so many people in the USA that don't understand, "equality for all" means ALL. I am still proud to be an American, and have seen lots of improvement in some peoples thinking. We still have a ways to go, and with God's guidance we will make it!


Unfortunately, most of the Libs in this thread have suggested God has no place in their lives nor should He be involved in race discussions or prosperity drives. I agree with you, I'm proud of how far America has come in civil rights. Martin Luther King, Jr., was a reverend and a man of God. MLK told us that without God in our lives, man is doomed, but as the Bible teaches, with God all things are possible.

That's the message that needs to be heard in the black communities (and ALL communities) for the prosperity to advance that is most often missing at the rallies, speeches, schools, educational places, homes, etc. today.

In fact, God, was written out at the most recent DNC convention and only brought back in by dissension by those who realized that kicking God out of the Democratic Party Platform would lose voters.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You believe that McDonalds and WalMart should not have hamburger flippers and people who return unpurchased items to racks? What should they do instead?


I assume she thinks it best for no one to take such jobs and rely on the taxpayers (herself) to pay them a living wage.

That's what she said. No one should do such work.

Wonder what work all the taxpayers are supposed to be doing?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I agree


as do I.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> GWPIver
> You are so right.
> Our Young have observed the dim Past and are working on a brighter future.
> They will succeed.
> ...


It's kind of funny to think about how that vast pool of poorly paid domestic help in the South dried up so completely, and to speculate on the after effects. I supposed many whites felt they simply couldn't get along without "********" to do the washing, the cooking, the gardening, the childcare, and pretty much everything else that needed doing in a home. Well, they must have adapted pretty fast once the maids and gardeners were gone--yet another example of dismally-paid jobs that we can get along just fine without.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> We have our cow chip throwing contest in Sept. would anyone be interested to throw a few. :roll: :roll: :?:


Most are practicing now in this thread. They should be ready by Sept. once the pile has been eliminated.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> One must study the past to develop the future. This is such a great discussion.


Right you are GW and I thank you for your enlightened contributions. Some folks will be doomed to repeat their past errors as they are under the misguided belief that they already know everything and have nothing to learn that will lead them to a better future for all of us. Sadly, they will left behind and not even comprehending why. The world will keep on turning with or without them. Thanks for the reading suggestions too. Helps keep the wheels in my brain running smoothly. :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

FYI - President Obama will be addressing the Nation in a couple of minutes concerning Syria so you may want to tune in and see what is going on. There are protesters present as this is a very hot topic on both sides as to what if any our involvement should be. Is being carried on CNN and PBS and I haven't checked the networks to see if they will carry it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Since the uproar about the interracial Family I switched from Cornflakes to Cheerios.
> Consumer Power against Racism.


I believe only racists noticed any disparity or 'color' in a commerical. I, for one, did not notice. I saw Cheerios of all flavors on the table with adorable children positioning them.

Wouldn't you know it, others only saw inter-racial families and food and acted solely based on their favorite color with purchases and or boycotts.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I believe only racists noticed any disparity or 'color' in a commerical. I, for one, did not notice. I saw Cheerios of all flavors on the table.
> 
> Wouldn't you know it, others only saw inter-racial families and food and acted solely based on their favorite color.


You are perfect. I am in awe.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> GWPIver
> You are so right.
> Our Young have observed the dim Past and are working on a brighter future.
> They will succeed.
> ...


Did you know our President of the past five years is black?

I don't know why you are limiting the progression of the black race, but you certainly live in the past and cannot see the forest through the trees.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> FYI - President Obama will be addressing the Nation in a couple of minutes concerning Syria so you may want to tune in and see what is going on. There are protesters present as this is a very hot topic on both sides as to what if any our involvement should be. Is being carried on CNN and PBS and I haven't checked the networks to see if they will carry it.


Thanks for the heads up, Cheeky. This is definitely an important issue.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> FYI - President Obama will be addressing the Nation in a couple of minutes concerning Syria so you may want to tune in and see what is going on. There are protesters present as this is a very hot topic on both sides as to what if any our involvement should be. Is being carried on CNN and PBS and I haven't checked the networks to see if they will carry it.


Cheeky Blighter
See you in a little while. I am an a Simultan Translation standby for the President's Speech.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> GWPIver
> 
> All they need is a job and a little encouragement.


What do you suggest? How are you encouraging them? Do you give them a job? Do you encourage them? Do you find solutions to have them progress or do you simply expect others to do for you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Since the uproar about the interracial Family I switched from Cornflakes to Cheerios.
> Consumer Power against Racism.


I didn't see what the big deal should be. My family looks that way. Things are changing and no one should be surprised any more. Ads are gradually reflecting who we are and I for one am very pleased.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> See you in a little while. I am an a Simultan Translation standby for the President's Speech.


Bye Ingried.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I didn't see what the big deal should be. My family looks that way. Things are changing and no one should be surprised any more. Ads are gradually reflecting who we are and I for one am very pleased.


"Gradually", yes--they really do tend to be very conservative. Interracial families have been a reality since Day 1 of our nation--glad the ad makers have finally figured that out.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One of my all time favorites.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> MIB - Thanks so much for all your contributions to the thread. Music has always been an honest form of expression of the times in which people are living.
> I think we all should be thinking of some more topics that we on the liberal left would enjoy discussing. Any one tilting in that direction please feel free to open up or continue on with the current theme of what Dr. King and the Civil Right's Movement meant to us, our history of Slavery and where we are now. We are all in this boat together and we understand change is happening and none of us desires or wants to retreat into the "good old bad old days". MIB more music please.
> 
> As Mr. Dylan said;
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thoughts exactly. If we skip it, our thoughts for the future are warped.



GWPlver said:


> One must study the past to develop the future. This is such a great discussion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seeking nominations for targets for cow chip throwing contest.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Seeking nominations for targets for cow chip throwing contest.


Hmm...let me think!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Since the uproar about the interracial Family I switched from Cornflakes to Cheerios.
> Consumer Power against Racism.


Speaking of cherrios, has anyone ever tried fried cherrios? Just put a tbsp or two of butter in a pan and add your cherrios. Stir them around for awhile and they get nice and crisp. Add a little salt and enjoy. I have also added a little cinnamon. I have been eating these since I was a little girl and now my grandkids love them. Maddie always called them fried che-che's. Good way to eat more cherrios, breakfast and snacks.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Speaking of cherrios, has anyone ever tried fried cherrios? Just put a tbsp or two of butter in a pan and add your cherrios. Stir them around for awhile and they get nice and crisp. Add a little salt and enjoy. I have also added a little cinnamon. I have been eating these since I was a little girl and now my grandkids love them. Maddie always called them fried che-che's. Good way to eat more cherrios, breakfast and snacks.


Fried breakfast cereal? I can see that--I adore Chex party mix!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm impressed by both Phillis Wheatly and her owners because it was illegal to teach a slave to read or write. Thanks for another good lesson in history.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Phillis Wheatley
> c.1754 - 1784
> 
> Phillis Wheatley was the first African American, the first slave, and the third woman in the United States to publish a book of poems.
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Gradually", yes--they really do tend to be very conservative. Interracial families have been a reality since Day 1 of our nation--glad the ad makers have finally figured that out.


susanmos2000
It is a pleasure to see how beautiful the Offspring to interracial Unions are.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

NJG said:


> Speaking of cherrios, has anyone ever tried fried cherrios? Just put a tbsp or two of butter in a pan and add your cherrios. Stir them around for awhile and they get nice and crisp. Add a little salt and enjoy. I have also added a little cinnamon. I have been eating these since I was a little girl and now my grandkids love them. Maddie always called them fried che-che's. Good way to eat more cherrios, breakfast and snacks.


NJG
Have to try that. Sounds wonderful. Anything crispy is to my liking.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Seeking nominations for targets for cow chip throwing contest.


I'd do it as long as the target is like the ones for archery... However, I throw like a girl.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> NJG
> Have to try that. Sounds wonderful. Anything crispy is to my liking.


I like the Honey Nut Cherrios best.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

LAND OF LIBERTY

In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, members of the Continental Congress sign the Declaration of Independence. 

1776
In Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, the Society of Friends, also known as the Quakers, forbids its members from holding slaves.

1776
Delaware prohibits the importation of African slaves.

1777
Vermont is the first of the thirteen colonies to abolish slavery and enfranchise all adult males. 

1777
New York enfranchises all free propertied men regardless of color or prior servitude. 

1778
Rhode Island forbids the removal of slaves from the state.

1778
Virginia prohibits the importation of slaves.

1780
Delaware makes it illegal to enslave imported Africans.

1780
Pennsylvania begins gradual emancipation.

1780
A freedom clause in the Massachusetts constitution is interpreted as an abolishment of slavery. Massachusetts enfranchises all men regardless of race.

GRADUAL EMANCIPATION

Mum Bett and another Massachusetts slave successfully sue their master for freedom.

1782
Virginia, followed by other Southern colonies, encourages private manumission.

1783
Virginia emancipates those slaves who served in the colonial forces against Britain, provided that the slave's master gives permission.

1783
Maryland prohibits the importation of African slaves.

1783
Affluent free blacks in New Orleans, Louisiana, organize the Perseverance, Benevolence and Mutual Aid Association to support their own interests and assist the poor. 

1784
Rhode Island and Connecticut begin gradual emancipation.

1784
North Carolina prohibits the importation of African slaves.

1784
Jefferson's proposal to restrict the westward expansion of slavery fails.

1785
New York passes a gradual emancipation law, prohibits the importation of slaves, and allows masters to manumit slaves without posting bonds.

1785
Virginia deems any person with black blood to be a mulatto and declares that the use of the term ***** is understood to include mulattos.



The Northwest Ordinance forbids slavery, except as criminal punishment, in the Northwest Territory (later Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Wisconsin). Residents of the territory are required to return fugitive slaves. 

1787
The U.S. Constitution is drafted in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

1787
Black preacher Richard Allen founds the African Methodist Episcopal Church in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

 1787
Prince Hall founds the first black fraternal organization, the African Mason Lodge, in Boston, Massachusetts. It provides services to the black community and lobbies against slavery and discrimination.

1787
Rhode Island forbids residents from participating in the slave trade.

1787
Delaware regulates interstate slave trade.

1787
South Carolina ends domestic and international slave trade.

1787
North Carolina levies a prohibitive duty on imported African slaves.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

While some of the more radical African-American activists in the 60's stated that religion had only kept blacks docile, most have said religion has played a very important role in the success of African-Americans both during and after slavery was abolished.

I rarely agree with you, as you know all too well, but this is one occasion when I do agree wholeheartedly.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Unfortunately, most of the Libs in this thread have suggested God has no place in their lives nor should He be involved in race discussions or prosperity drives. I agree with you, I'm proud of how far America has come in civil rights. Martin Luther King, Jr., was a reverend and a man of God. MLK told us that without God in our lives, man is doomed, but as the Bible teaches, with God all things are possible.
> 
> That's the message that needs to be heard in the black communities (and ALL communities) for the prosperity to advance that is most often missing at the rallies, speeches, schools, educational places, homes, etc. today.
> 
> In fact, God, was written out at the most recent DNC convention and only brought back in by dissension by those who realized that kicking God out of the Democratic Party Platform would lose voters.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I will. I welcome the opportunity.
> 
> How about this: no one can argue that there haven't been many changes for the better since MLK's day. The fact that an African-American man can be elected President shows that great strides have been made. Still, many African-American live in dire straits--I won't bother to quote the figures for poverty, incarceration, and drop-outism (not the proper term, but you know what I mean), but they're appalling.
> The question is why. We can't point the finger of blame at blatant bigoted laws and institutions--those "no ********" signs are obviously a thing of the past. The answer seems more elusive, much harder to figure out...any ideas?


How about the breakdown of the traditional family and the rise of the gang lifestyle. Before everyone jumps down my throat, I do believe that same sex couples can provide a very loving, nurturing family life as well. That is not an issue for me. The family unit has broken down and in many instances ceases to exist. The children do not get the discipline they need. They are not taught how to be productive individuals, to care about anyone other than themselves. The gang has taken over for the family, but is seriously lacking in that respect. The leaders of the gang do not care about the children they recruit, just what these kids can do for the gang. The gang teaches violence, lawlessness, drug and alcohol abuse, how not to treat another human being, how to keep a community in fear, etc. Addressing these problems and finding the solutions is a good start, and will definitely take the community as a whole to see it through.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Found the book I was mentioning earlier. "It's The Warmth of Other Suns: The Epic Story of America's Great Migration" by Isabel Wilkerson. Excellent read. I found another book but have not read it called "The Promised Land" by Nicholas Lehmann.


Thanks, GW. Will be book shopping ths weekend. I will look for it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is the MO of KPG formerly known as Cherf. It will go to any political thread and try to hijack it. Last fall is proof of it. I am asking everyone to ignore and not respond to it and keep up on the god discussions we are having.
> Thanks,
> Patty


This is your way of helping to keep this thread pleasant? And GWP's reference to personality disorders, Indreid's nasty post as well. You all have got to be the biggest hypocrites ever. You want a pleasant place, then make one. Take some responsibility for your own actions and practice what you preach.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NEWS FLASH:

As Obama prepares for his Syrian War, guess what he is doing? 

wait for it...................................

Playing Golf. What a leader


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks, GW. Will be book shopping ths weekend. I will look for it.


Patty we shall overcome this and all the rest that is to come. People are funny aren't they. Seems like there are some lost souls roaming around that don't now they are in someone else's yard. When I was little my parents taught us it was rude to go where you are not invited but some people never learn that lesson. I don't go play in other people's yards, Patty, do you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I didn't see what the big deal should be. My family looks that way. Things are changing and no one should be surprised any more. Ads are gradually reflecting who we are and I for one am very pleased.


As you should be Cheeky! It is about time that the families of all Americans are portrayed in ads. I have seen some Latino ads as well. The predominantly white America is no more. The sooner people accept that, the happier everyone will be.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hello.
I am trying to get back into a regular schedule. The Laundry is done and the rest at the cleaners. Two vacations so close together are setting some chores back a little. Not that I care. Eventually everything gets its turn. I enjoy the new thread and see that some new People are present and are posting in very nice and informative ways. The subject at discussion is a most important one. Hope to make a useful contribution..
Right now I am having one eye on a Classic Car Auction on TV. See if there is something coming up I cannot resist. Huck


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> Seeking nominations for targets for cow chip throwing contest.


damemary
I do have very good eye-hand coordination, you go and select a target.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> There are people who can work a lower-skilled job and that's all they can do. For one reason or another, that is the level they can attain in the work place. There are many such people who deserve a living wage. They have earned it because they work hard and that's the best they can do. We need to have laws that guarantee them that so that they don't have to depend on the government. They should be able to depend on their employer. And why don't the employers or corporations have responsibilities as part of our society? We, the people, do.
> I'm sure there are many who want to get out of their job situation to earn more money and to obtain greater satisfaction in their work. It's not as easy as snapping your fingers. Education costs money, and education takes time, and education takes opportunity. If an individual is working at a low-paying job and has a child or two how feasible is it that s/he has the capability to get new job training or more education? How can that person who is likely working for minimum wage cut his/her expenses when they can barely cover food and rent? And, where are the jobs they should prepare themselves for? The reality is that these jobs you think shouldn't be anyone's career are often the only job available.
> Why is there so much opposition to government creation of jobs that would benefit individuals as well as the economy? Our infrastructure is in terrible shape, but nobody wants to do anything.
> I understand perfectly everything you've said here, but I think there's a disconnect with how things work in reality. We don't really understand how poor the working poor really are in today's world. I think many of us are too far removed from wondering where the next meal is coming from. The fact is that there are many working poor who would like nothing better than to leave their low-paying jobs and better themselves, but don't have the wherewithal to get there. Who besides the government can help these people if they can't make it happen for themselves?


The community can help them. The government is just throwing money at the problem and expecting it to get fixed. The community can pool all of their resources to help each other. The poor also have to want to help themselves for anything to actually happen otherwise everyone is wasting their time.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> OMG OMG, please post that about every 6 seconds.
> My ability to be respectful in the face of total ignorance is fading fast.


If that is true, then it's time for you to leave the thread. You do want to honor Cheeky's wishes, no? Shouldn't those rules apply to everyone here?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> For the ladies on the right who continue to torment us here is a message that was sent to me by a new poster on this thread. This is how she sees you KPG, Love the Lake, Joey. She has given me permission to post this in the hopes that you all will please stop tormenting us on this thread and leave. I don't know what sick perversion brings any of you to a place that you are not welcome. People are talking about you and it is not nice. Please if you have a shred of decency leave this thread and don't bother us. KPG you can go back and re post all my old posts like you have done before. Remember it only reflects badly on you and not me and you are only making yourself look foolish. No one in there right mind would carry on as you are doing. I will not fight with you and I know I have in the past but you are nothing more than a bad memory and I am done with all of you and only wish to interact with my friends and you are not my friend and I know you hate me. Good by
> 
> This is how others see you who are posting on this thread.
> 
> Look to whom they are fed-Shawn Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, the Republican House, to name only a few. My husband reads ALL the books written about Corporate America, Lobbyists, I can't think of much, but he is well rehearsed in what is going on. These ladies are believing what the upper crust feed them. They just really don't know anything. They watch Fox News. I can't watch that show even 5 minutes without getting angry. Most of Fox News isn't based on any truth. To me the worst of this is these people call themselves Christians and I just don't see Christianity in any of them. I see hate. They are holier than thou with little or no love for those less fortunate. I believe when we are much younger, we are being formed in how we fit in and view the world around us. Even in my own family this exists. Most of my living family is Republican. They admire people like Michelle Bachmann and Mitt Romney. I think the Republicans now remind me of those who persecuted Jesus. They have something deeply wrong inside. They are not normal. They are fed lies and they believe them. I just don't get it. I never will get it, because I don't have that in me and neither do you. Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be first. I think he meant those who struggled will be first. I see Jesus as a man filled with love, not a man who will get you at Heaven's Door. God is Love. I do so want to love these ladies, but they aren't lovable; however, John Lewis is much more Christ like and that's why I love the man.


This sounds to me just like liberal propaganda. She is accusing the Republicans of doing EACTLY what she herself is doing. She sounds a lot like you. It is not surprising. I will take her view with a grain of salt, no more.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go Cheer-ri-o's.



NJG said:


> Speaking of cherrios, has anyone ever tried fried cherrios? Just put a tbsp or two of butter in a pan and add your cherrios. Stir them around for awhile and they get nice and crisp. Add a little salt and enjoy. I have also added a little cinnamon. I have been eating these since I was a little girl and now my grandkids love them. Maddie always called them fried che-che's. Good way to eat more cherrios, breakfast and snacks.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This sounds to me just like liberal propaganda. She is accusing the Republicans of doing EACTLY what she herself is doing. She sounds a lot like you. It is not surprising. I will take her view with a grain of salt, no more.


I think she sounds deranged.

Maybe she should take up golf and pretend she is part of the upper crust of the socialists


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huck, I will be looking forward to your comments. Get settled in back home. Sometimes we need rest after a vacation.
We are dicussing civil rights and how far or not so far that we have come since the early days of slavery through civil rights up to today.
See you soon!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One might argue that this thread is dedicated to POV Liberals. We are trying not to respond to the opposition who are dedicated to disruption and attention. Some 'one' doesn't belong here.



soloweygirl said:


> This is your way of helping to keep this thread pleasant? And GWP's reference to personality disorders, Indreid's nasty post as well. You all have got to be the biggest hypocrites ever. You want a pleasant place, then make one. Take some responsibility for your own actions and practice what you preach.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome home. Missed you.



Huckleberry said:


> Hello.
> I am trying to get back into a regular schedule. The Laundry is done and the rest at the cleaners. Two vacations so close together are setting some chores back a little. Not that I care. Eventually everything gets its turn. I enjoy the new thread and see that some new People are present and are posting in very nice and informative ways. The subject at discussion is a most important one. Hope to make a useful contribution..
> Right now I am having one eye on a Classic Car Auction on TV. See if there is something coming up I cannot resist. Huck


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> One might argue that this thread is dedicated to POV Liberals. We are trying not to respond to the opposition who are dedicated to disruption and attention. Some 'one' doesn't belong here.


Sounds like discrimination to me. I thought that libs were "open minded". Guess this proves they discriminate and are closed minded.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty we shall overcome this and all the rest that is to come. People are funny aren't they. Seems like there are some lost souls roaming around that don't now they are in someone else's yard. When I was little my parents taught us it was rude to go where you are not invited but some people never learn that lesson. I don't go play in other people's yards, Patty, do you?


Yes, we will Cheeky. Lost souls indeed! What a terrible way to live.How sad it is having your day dedicated to harassing those who have differing opinions on a knitting site no less. Some people will never get it, Cheeky


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MIB, Ingried can shoot. We'll gather ammo for her.



Ingried said:


> damemary
> I do have very good eye-hand coordination.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yarnie, when you go to the cow chip throwing tournament, do you have a cow pie? They are delicious.


Yes it is a Wisconsin thing . I think it is so funny to watch people see how far they can throw the cow chips? some are better then others. :XD:

Yes I do they sure are good and gooey the contest is going on today. Got to love people who want to do it. if you can throw it far enough you can get a trophy. But you also have to pay for it.They actual charge you $3.00 to throw one.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CONTINUATION OF SLAVERY TIMELINE

The U.S. Constitution is officially adopted by the new nation when New Hampshire becomes the ninth state to ratify it. The document includes a fugitive slave clause and the "three-fifths" clause by which each slave is considered three-fifths of a person for the purposes of congressional representation and tax apportionment. 

1788
New York passes a new comprehensive slave law, confirming that all current slaves are slaves for life.

1788
Connecticut and Massachusetts forbid residents from participating in the slave trade.

1788
South Carolina permits domestic slave trade to continue.

1789
The Maryland Society for Promoting the Abolition of Slavery and the Relief of Free ******* and Others Unlawfully Held in Bondage is founded.

1789
Maryland denies Quaker requests to end the exportation of slaves.

1790
Congress denies naturalization to anyone who is not a free white.

1790
Congress advocates the expansion of slavery into the Southwest.

1791
Quaker-educated Benjamin Banneker, an astronomer and mathematician, becomes the first black man to publish an almanac. 

1791
Vermont and Kentucky are admitted to the Union.

1792
Congress excludes blacks from military service.


Eli Whitney patents the cotton gin, making cotton production more profitable. The market value of slaves increases as a result. 

1793
The First Fugitive Slave Law is passed, allowing slave owners to cross state lines in the pursuit of fugitives and making it a penal offense to abet runaway slaves.

1794
Congress prohibits slave trade between the U.S. and foreign countries.

1795-1820
During a period of religious revivalism, known as the "Second Great Awakening," slaves convert to Christianity in large numbers for the first time.

1798
Georgia prohibits international slave trade.

1799
Virginia banishes white mothers of mulattos with their children.

1800
A slave named Gabriel Prosser, believing himself called by God, organizes a plot to kill all whites in Virginia, sparing only Quakers, Methodists, and French. The conspirators meet under the pretense of holding religious meetings. 

1800
South Carolina forbids blacks from holding religious meetings at night.

1800
Congress prohibits U.S. citizens from exporting slaves. 

1801
Congress extends the Virginia and Maryland slavery laws into the District of Columbia, establishing a federally authorized slave code.

The U.S. purchases the Louisiana Territory (the area that later became Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas, and Florida) from the French. 

1803
South Carolina opens a new port to accommodate the importation of slaves from Africa.

1803
Ohio is admitted to the Union as a free state.

1804
The U.S. prohibits the importation of slaves from foreign territories into Louisiana.

1804
In Pennsylvania the Underground Railroad is officially established.

1804
New Jersey enacts laws meant to introduce gradual emancipation.

1804
Ohio passes black laws to deter runaway slaves from settling in the state. 

1805
Virginia allows slaves to accompany white masters to religious services presided over by white preachers.

1806
Virginia requires slaves to leave the state within a year of manumission. 
The American Colonization Society is founded to help free blacks resettle in Africa.

1817-19
Fugitive slaves in Florida and Native Americans fight together against the forces of Andrew Jackson in the First Seminole War.

1817
The state of Georgia officially bans the slave trade.

1819
The U.S. annexes East Florida, which previously served as a refuge for runaway slaves.

1819
U.S. law declares slave trading to be a capital offense.

1819
Canada denies the American government the right to pursue runaway slaves within its borders.

1819
Virginia and North Carolina remove restraints on interstate slave trade.

1819
Virginia outlaws blacks and mulattos, whether free or slave, from meeting for the purposes of education and forbids teaching blacks to read and write. 


The Missouri Compromise forbids slavery in the Louisiana territory north of Missouri's Southern border. Under its terms, Maine is admitted to the Union as a free state and Missouri as a slave state.

1820
South Carolina announces penalties for introducing any written anti-slavery material into the state. 

1820
In Charleston, South Carolina, slaves are required to wear distinctive identification tags. This law is later extended to free blacks in the city as well.

1822
Liberia is founded as a colony for blacks fleeing America.

1822
In South Carolina, Denmark Vesey is accused of organizing a massive slave uprising. Almost forty slaves, including Vesey, are executed. Others are sold out of the state.

1823
Alexander Lucius Twilight graduates from Middlebury College, making him the first black college graduate in the U.S.

1826
Pennsylvania passes an anti-kidnapping law to protect free blacks.

1827
Tennessee officially bans slave trading.

1827
Texas requires that one tenth of the slaves inherited by any estate be freed.

1827
Texas permits slaves to be sold between individuals.


In Boston, Massachusetts, David Walker publishes his widely read vociferous condemnation of slavery, AN APPEAL TO THE COLORED CITIZENS OF THE WORLD.

1829
Mexico abolishes slavery and becomes a refuge for American fugitive slaves.

1830
The slave population in the U.S. numbers more than two million, making the ratio of free to enslaved Americans approximately 5.5:1.

1831
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, hosts the 1st annual Convention of People of Color.

1831
The Underground Railroad is given its name.

1831
William Lloyd Garrison founds THE LIBERATOR, an abolitionist newspaper.

1831
The New England Anti-Slavery Society is founded.

1831
Maria W. Stewart, a free black woman in Boston, Massachusetts, speaks out against slavery, becoming the first African-American woman to deliver a public lecture in the U.S. 

1831
Debates in Virginia concerning emancipation mark the beginning of the last antebellum movement toward abolition in the South.

1831
North Carolina passes a law enforcing prohibition against teaching slaves to read and write as well as against providing slaves with reading materials like books or pamphlets.

Nat Turner, an enslaved Baptist preacher believing himself divinely inspired, leads a violent rebellion in Southampton, Virginia. At least 57 whites are killed. 

1831
Virginia passes a law enforcing prohibitions against slaves congregating for religious service at night, regardless of whether black or white preachers hold those services. 

1832
Alabama removes restraints on interstate slave trade.

1832
Kentucky forbids residents from buying and importing slaves.

1833
Britain abolishes slavery in all of its colonies, effective the following year.

1833
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, hosts the 1st American Anti-Slavery Society Convention.

1834
Louisiana removes restraints on the interstate slave trade.

1834-1835
Both New York City and Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, experience riots against blacks and anti-slavery advocates. Anti-abolition riots subsequently break out in major cities across the Northeast.

1835
In the Second Seminole War, blacks again fight alongside Native Americans in opposition to U.S. forces. 

1836
Texas wins independence from Mexico and legalizes slavery. Free blacks and mulattos are forbidden from entering the state.

1835
Both North and South Carolina make formal requests to other states to suppress abolition societies and anti-slavery literature.

1836
Virginia, Georgia, and Alabama request that other states suppress abolitionist activities.

1836
Faced with a deluge of abolitionist petitions, the U.S. House of Representatives adopts a "gag rule" by which abolitionist materials are automatically tabled. The rule is renewed numerous times.
New York City hosts the first National Anti-Slavery Society Convention.

1837
New York City hosts the first Convention of the Anti-Slavery Society of American Women, an event attended by both black and white women.

1837
Blacks in Pennsylvania and Mississippi lose the right to vote. In New York, they petition for continued voting rights.

1838
The second Anti-Slavery Convention of American Women takes place in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Proslavery mobs riot in response.

1839
In Albany, New York, a committed political action group called the Liberty Party holds its first National Convention in the name of abolition.

1839
Africans aboard the Spanish slave ship Amistad commit mutiny. When the ship lands off the coast of Long Island, the slaves plea for freedom in court.

1840
The American Anti-Slavery Society divides over the issue of women's rights.

1840
Texas forbids unauthorized trading with slaves and prohibits slaves from carrying weapons without written permission.

1840
South Carolina enacts a "Black Code" by which slaves are denied the rights to assemble, produce food, earn money, learn to read, and to possess any clothing but low-quality garments.

1841
The U.S. Supreme Court declares that the mutinous Africans from the slave ship Amistad are now free.

1841
Texas gives its citizens the right and responsibility to apprehend runaway slaves and turn them over to the law so that they may be returned to their owners or sold at auction
In the case of Prigg v. Pennsylvania, the U.S. Supreme Court rules that the 1793 Fugitive Slave law is constitutional, while state personal liberty laws make unconstitutional demands on slave owners. Enforcement of the Fugitive Slave law is declared the federal government's responsibility, not the states'.

1842
The Georgia legislature declares that it will never recognize free blacks as citizens.

1843
In reaction to the decision in Prigg v. Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont, and Ohio pass personal liberty laws.

1844
Connecticut passes a personal liberty law.

1844
North Carolina denies citizenship to free blacks.

1844
Oregon prohibits slavery.

1845
Texas enters the Union as a slave state.

1846
Missouri removes restraints on interstate slave trade.

1846
Texas creates a system for patrolling slaves.

1847
Pennsylvania passes a personal liberty law.

1847
Frederick Douglass breaks with William Lloyd Garrison's abolitionist newspaper, THE LIBERATOR, to found a black abolitionist paper called THE NORTH STAR.
Anti-slavery groups organize the Free Soil Party, a group opposed to the westward expansion of slavery from which the Republican Party will later be born.

1848
Seneca Falls, New York, hosts the first Women's Rights Convention. Women's rights activists, such as Amy Post, Angelina Grimke, and Susan B. Anthony, become outspoken opponents of slavery. 

1848
Rhode Island passes a personal liberty law.

1848
Connecticut law prohibits slavery entirely.

1848
South Carolina removes restraints on interstates slave trade.

1849
Liberia is recognized as a sovereign state by Britain. Joseph Jenkins Roberts, the son of free Virginian blacks, becomes the first president.

1849
Virginia passes a law permitting the emancipation of any slave by will or deed.

1849
Kentucky removes restraints on interstate slave trade.

1849-1850
Blacks in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, protect themselves against attacks by white mobs. 

1850
Approximately 300 Seminoles and blacks in Texas head to Mexico, where enslavement is prohibited, inspiring others to follow.
The Compromise of 1850 admits California to the Union as a free state, allows the slave states of New Mexico and Utah to be decided by popular sovereignty, and bans slave trade in D.C.

1850
A second fugitive slave law, enforced by the federal government, strengthens the rights of slave owners and threatens the rights of free blacks. Many states pass personal liberty laws in response. 

1850
Maryland removes restraints on interstate slave trade.

1850
Virginia demands that emancipated slaves leave the state within a year and forbids the legislature from freeing any slave.

1851
Sojourner Truth gives her famous "Ain't I a Woman" speech at the Women's Rights Convention in Akron, Ohio.

1852
Harriet Beecher Stowe's influential abolitionist novel UNCLE TOM'S CABIN is published.

1853
William Wells Brown's CLOTEL is published in London. It is the first published novel by an African-American.

1854
The Kansas-Nebraska Act creates the territories of Kansas and Nebraska and allows popular sovereignty to decide the slave status of each. It also repeals the anti-slavery clause of the Missouri Compromise.

1854-1855
Connecticut, Maine, and Mississippi pass personal liberty laws. Massachusetts and Rhode Island renew personal liberty laws first enacted in the 1840s.

1855
Georgia and Tennessee remove restraints on interstate slave trade.

1855
John Mercer Langston is elected to political office in Ohio, making him the first black to serve in the U.S. government. 

1856
The Republican Party is formed out of the Free Soil Party.

1856
Proslavery groups in Kansas attack the free soil town of Lawrence. Radical abolitionist John Brown and his followers strike in retaliation, initiating a wave of violence and destruction, known as "Bleeding Kansas."
The U.S. Supreme Court ruling in Dred Scott v. Sanford denies citizenship to all slaves, ex-slaves, and descendants of slaves and denies Congress the right to prohibit slavery in the territories. 

1857
New Hampshire declares that no one shall be denied citizenship on account of African descent and, along with Vermont, repeals laws against the enlistment of blacks in state militia.

1857
Richmond, Virginia, passes a comprehensive slave code that, among other stipulations, prohibits self-hiring by slaves, restricts blacks from entering certain parts of the city, specifies street etiquette, and forbids slaves from smoking, carrying canes, standing on the sidewalk, and using provocative language. 

1857
Ohio and Wisconsin pass personal liberty laws.

1858
Vermont passes a personal liberty law and declares that no one shall be denied citizenship on account of African descent.

1858
Kansas enters the Union as a free state.

1859
Harriet E. Wilson, author of OUR NIG, becomes the first African-American novelist published in the U.S.

1859
White workers in South Carolina petition for relief against competition from slave and free black workers.

1859
New Mexico enacts a slave code.

1859
Arizona declares that all free blacks in the territory will be considered slaves on the first day of the new year.

1859
The last slave ship to bring slaves into the U.S. lands in Mobile Bay, Alabama.

1859
A group of whites and blacks, led by John Brown, conducts an unsuccessful raid on Harper's Ferry, Virginia, in an attempt to undermine slavery in the South.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're pushing your luck, but we are organized....united.....gathered together. You see, we don't need you. You crave attention from us. We all understand this.



soloweygirl said:


> If that is true, then it's time for you to leave the thread. You do want to honor Cheeky's wishes, no? Shouldn't those rules apply to everyone here?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bye bye



soloweygirl said:


> This sounds to me just like liberal propaganda. She is accusing the Republicans of doing EACTLY what she herself is doing. She sounds a lot like you. It is not surprising. I will take her view with a grain of salt, no more.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> This is your way of helping to keep this thread pleasant? And GWP's reference to personality disorders, Indreid's nasty post as well. You all have got to be the biggest hypocrites ever. You want a pleasant place, then make one. Take some responsibility for your own actions and practice what you preach.


Bravo soloweygirl! Exactly the same principles can and should be applied to the black communities; if they want to further prosperity, than take responsibility for your own actions and practice what you preach.

Stop wallowing in self-pity, past wrongs and making excuses.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Yes it is a Wisconsin thing . I think it is so funny to watch people see how far they can throw the cow chips? some are better then others. :XD:


 :?: :?: :?: :?: the people or the cow chips? Syntax.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> bye bye


Damemary isn't wonderful to be so popular. Makes me want to sing.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: the people or the cow chips? Syntax.


Oh you your funny. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We are interesting....and infuriating. We shall bear our popularity with grace. See you Gracie. hugs from Faith



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Damemary isn't wonderful to be so popular. Makes me want to sing.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty we shall overcome this and all the rest that is to come. People are funny aren't they. Seems like there are some lost souls roaming around that don't now they are in someone else's yard. When I was little my parents taught us it was rude to go where you are not invited but some people never learn that lesson. I don't go play in other people's yards, Patty, do you?


Funny, but you're the leader of this thread and have yet to lead. You welcomed all with equality and equal positions unless we disagree with your opinions. In that case you have only defamed, threatened and attacked.

When I was little my parents taught me to speak the truth, not to lie, and that it was rude to ignore and attack people of different races, beliefs and faiths with violence. I follow those practices today. Why don't you?

You are now posting about the late 1700's. Only three hundred years to go before you can begin to lead on the topic you suggested.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Translation: Oh you. You're funny.



theyarnlady said:


> Oh you your funny. :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> We are interesting....and infuriating. We shall bear our popularity with grace. See you Gracie. hugs from Faith


As I said earlier, they just can't stay away from us, Cheeky. The thread is doing fine the way it is.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't consider it discrimination.

We are not restricting anyone's constitutional rights. We are just enjoying a discussion among non-disruptive friends.

Wouldn't you think they would respect that if they had any manners at all?



BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, we will Cheeky. Lost souls indeed! What a terrible way to live.How sad it is having your day dedicated to harassing those who have differing opinions on a knitting site no less. Some people will never get it, Cheeky


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Damemary isn't wonderful to be so popular. Makes me want to sing.


Cheeky Blighter

chime in........"We are the World....................."


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Translation: Oh you. You're funny.


I know thanks for correction. 
You can go on line and just type in Wisconsin State Cow Chip Throw.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck, I will be looking forward to your comments. Get settled in back home. Sometimes we need rest after a vacation.
> We are dicussing civil rights and how far or not so far that we have come since the early days of slavery through civil rights up to today.
> See you soon!


Huck, we are discussing slavery and are now in the 1700s. You have three hundreds years, give or take, before you miss anything that might attempt to solve today's problems. Take you time doing laundry; nothing happening here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Cheeky Blighter, Thanks for organizing this thread. I'm enjoying it immensely. Unfortunately, the opposition is enjoying it also.....too much to discuss among themselves.

You job is akin to herding cats. Thanks again.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Sounds like discrimination to me. I thought that libs were "open minded". Guess this proves they discriminate and are closed minded.


Empty promises prevail. Look to their leaders for proof of same.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dear Cheeky Blighter, Thanks for organizing this thread. I'm enjoying it immensely. Unfortunately, the opposition is enjoying it also.....too much to discuss among themselves.
> 
> You job is akin to herding cats. Thanks again.


Or nailing jello to the wall. The opposition have nothing else to do except for to harrass us. Very pathetic indeed. Keep on posting ladies. These parasites need us to survive.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering.....Amazing how one poster says there's nothing going on here, but continues to interrupt?...>>>> ;-)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> <<<whispering.....Amazing how one poster says there's nothing going on here, but continues to interrupt?...>>>> ;-)


Yes, that's the one with the empty life. No kids no grandkids. Her first thought of the morning is "who can I bully and harrass on the knitting site today?" Very sad.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, we will Cheeky. Lost souls indeed! What a terrible way to live.How sad it is having your day dedicated to harassing those who have differing opinions on a knitting site no less. Some people will never get it, Cheeky


Cheeky is the queen of harassing. Just read her posts from yesterday, on a public knitting site no less, if you want to learn how to threaten and harass people. Yet, you do just fine on your own.

Thankfully those who are Christians, in particular, have already been saved. Talk and listen to them to find your way to peace and being saved yourself.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I found this quote today. Very True.
> 
> Iconic cowboy and American tough guy John Wayne once said, Life is tough, but its tougher when youre stupid.


Make that your mantra, Joey. It certainly fits you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> You're pushing your luck, but we are organized....united.....gathered together. You see, we don't need you. You crave attention from us. We all understand this.


ROFLMBO :XD: :XD: :XD:    :-D :-D :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: the people or the cow chips? Syntax.


Conservative cow chips _are_ infinitely better than all others.

Kapish?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> We are interesting....and infuriating. We shall bear our popularity with grace. See you Gracie. hugs from Faith


So interesting that the only way your thread increases in pages is because

1) your leader posts pages after pages of double-spaced statements of what happened 350 years ago which no one cares about including her

2) the Conservative, Republican, and Independent KP members write intelligent and informative posts to give you something to talk about

Bonus: without those who do not agree to your threats and bullying, your threads die a slow death every time you start one including exclusive group threads here and elsewhere.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Translation: Oh you. You're funny.


Oh you = Bully


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I know thanks for correction.
> You can go on line and just type in Wisconsin State Cow Chip Throw.


Can you throw big mouths as long as you can lift their enormous weight?

If so, sign me up for five please.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty we shall overcome this and all the rest that is to come. People are funny aren't they. Seems like there are some lost souls roaming around that don't now they are in someone else's yard. When I was little my parents taught us it was rude to go where you are not invited but some people never learn that lesson. I don't go play in other people's yards, Patty, do you?


Cheeky Blighter
It is that "trespass" part they have overlooked for so long.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't consider it discrimination.
> 
> We are not restricting anyone's constitutional rights. We are just enjoying a discussion among non-disruptive friends.
> 
> Wouldn't you think they would respect that if they had any manners at all?


Here's some of the words of your leader who is your so-called uniter who post among her non-disruptive friends. Perhaps she feel she has manners because she used the word 'please' in one of her sentences?

Somehow I don't think anyone _but_ a black person would feel welcome here on 'her' thread.

Perhaps you hear something we could all learn from her words (of course, these are just a few highlights). If so, please point them out to me because I certainly missed them.



CheekyBlighter said:


> >>> Don't any of you ever say you give a damn about Dr. King or what he stood for because if he were alive today you would be calling him a no good N ----r!
> 
> >>> ... please get the heck out of here because we love our black President and our black families and our black friends and you know how crazy we all can get.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As I said earlier, they just can't stay away from us, Cheeky. The thread is doing fine the way it is.


Bratty Patty
No-one knows that better than I.
These Anklebiters are in dire need of constant attention.
We are their only link to the "outside" you see.
I visited some Knitshops while in Europe and some People were familiar with KP.
We opened the thread and had a wonderful discussion about some Members. Lots of questions I tell you. Interesting questions at that.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

snap

And that is only the tip of the iceberg. Aren't they supposed to be so inclusive; loving the fact that we all have differences and embrace these differences? What about all the peace and love of the 60's? Love not war?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Bratty Patty
> No-one knows that better than I.
> 
> I visited some Knitshops while in Europe and some People were familiar with KP.
> We opened the thread and had a wonderful discussion about some Members. Lots of questions I tell you. Interesting questions at that.


My God, the Netherndals talked back to you?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> snap
> 
> And that is only the tip of the iceberg. Aren't they supposed to be so inclusive; loving the fact that we all have differences and embrace these differences? What about all the peace and love of the 60's? Love not war?


They're only up to the 1800's to date - forget about the 60's. They'll never make it.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My God, the Netherndals talked back to you?


Neanderthals knit? Maybe macrame or finger knitting.....


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Dear Cheeky Blighter, Thanks for organizing this thread. I'm enjoying it immensely. Unfortunately, the opposition is enjoying it also.....too much to discuss among themselves.
> 
> You job is akin to herding cats. Thanks again.


Yes, they are an odd bunch. We shouldn't compare them to cats because cats are so intelligent but the herding part, you are spot on. Funny how some believe they are setting the agenda here. We have that planned out for months.
I think we will go out to a movie tonight. Probably see Blue Jasmine. I have to do some more research for the current topics. It's amazing what you learn when you read and have an open mind. It's sad that everyone doesn't make the effort. Even my cats like a good history lesson.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Neanderthals knit? Maybe macrame or finger knitting.....


Maybe they're all tied up in fiber knots?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> CONTINUATION OF SLAVERY TIMELINE
> 
> The U.S. Constitution is officially adopted by the new nation when New Hampshire becomes the ninth state to ratify it. The document includes a fugitive slave clause and the "three-fifths" clause by which each slave is considered three-fifths of a person for the purposes of congressional representation and tax apportionment.
> 
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
I studied a lot of the History of this Country to become an informed Citizen. 
I am learning a great deal more now from your posting.
Thank you very much.
My DH was an avid Student of History and I was an eager Pupil.
I will be missing those lessons but shall continue to learn.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> It is that "trespass" part they have overlooked for so long.


Ironic isn't it that those same people who trespass are also the ones who like "Stand Your Ground"? They are either the biggest flip floppers I have ever seen or the biggest hypocrites. I wonder which one it is? There is that lovely group, I believe called A.L.E.C. that had a big hand in "Stand Your Ground".
I also just read that there are still a lot of people in the South who believe they won the Civil War. Probably all related.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter
I studied a lot of the History of this Country to become an informed Citizen. 
I am learning a great deal more now from your posting.
Thank you very much.
My DH was an avid Student of History and I was an eager Pupil.
I will be missing those lessons but shall continue to learn.

Ingried

Thanks, Ingried. I am learning a lot myself. We have a very interesting history. Some good some very bad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, Ingried. I am learning a lot myself. We have a very interesting history. Some good some very bad.


It certainly is...very grim facts indeed, but that's how it is.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky, your history lessons are fascinating and horrible. Thank you for posting them.

I thought I might add another, more recent piece of history that you will all be familiar with. I think it bears looking at every so often.

http://www.upworthy.com/watch-a-tea...e-each-other-for-the-best-reason-imaginable-2


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

1829
Mexico abolishes slavery and becomes a refuge for American fugitive slaves.

This fact caught my eye--there are quite a few accounts of runaway slaves who made it to Canada, but I don't recall any of slaves who fled south to Mexico. After 1829 it was a very logical destination, and one far easier to reach than the border between the US and Canada. Does anyone have the figures for how many slaves did indeed go to Mexico? What was their ultimate fate? Were they just assimilated into the general Mexican population?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Cheeky, your history lessons are fascinating and horrible. Thank you for posting them.
> 
> I thought I might add another, more recent piece of history that you will all be familiar with. I think it bears looking at every so often.
> 
> http://www.upworthy.com/watch-a-tea...e-each-other-for-the-best-reason-imaginable-2


Thanks for the video, Aw--I have to say that that was one gutsy teacher. This approach could have been disastrous in the wrong hands, but she handled it very well.

One question: I noticed the Chinese (?) subtitles at the bottom of the screen...I know China has race problems of its own--is this video used there for teaching purposes?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for the video, Aw--I have to say that that was one gutsy teacher. This approach could have been disastrous in the wrong hands, but she handled it very well.
> 
> One question: I noticed the Chinese (?) subtitles at the bottom of the screen...I know China has race problems of its own--is this video used there for teaching purposes?


Maybe it's Japanese. I've noticed subtitles on quite a few videos on education.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 1829
> Mexico abolishes slavery and becomes a refuge for American fugitive slaves.
> 
> This fact caught my eye--there are quite a few accounts of runaway slaves who made it to Canada, but I don't recall any of slaves who fled south to Mexico. After 1829 it was a very logical destination, and one far easier to reach than the border between the US and Canada. Does anyone have the figures for how many slaves did indeed go to Mexico? What was their ultimate fate? Were they just assimilated into the general Mexican population?


Susan the more I look at the time line the more I realize there is so much I don't know. I have been going off on a lot of side trips to do research whenever I come across some new information. Just reading the timeline is educational. I will see what I can find out about the slaves who went to Mexico.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Cheeky, your history lessons are fascinating and horrible. Thank you for posting them.
> 
> I thought I might add another, more recent piece of history that you will all be familiar with. I think it bears looking at every so often.
> 
> http://www.upworthy.com/watch-a-tea...e-each-other-for-the-best-reason-imaginable-2


Thanks, Anne. I am going to take a break and read your link.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan the more I look at the time line the more I realize there is so much I don't know. I have been going off on a lot of side trips to do research whenever I come across some new information. Just reading the timeline is educational. I will see what I can find out about the slaves who went to Mexico.


Thanks, Cheeky. All this is enough to make one's head spin--I never realized how complex the issue was!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Anne the video was very interesting. Thank you for sharing it. It just shows how easily children can be indoctrinated to hate. I have never thought we were born hating others. I can remember when I first saw Chinese children and I asked my Dad what was wrong with there eyes and he explained to me why their eyes looked different than mine and I was satisfied. I will always be thankful that my parents taught us just as Dr. King did that it is the content of someone's character that is important. It's so tragic what adults do to kids when they pass on their own warped racist beliefs. When kids can just be kids they show a lot more common sense than the adults around them do.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Here you go Susan. This a link for you that will give you some information on slaves who fled, mostly from Texas, to Mexico.
Who knew?

http://www.smithsonianeducation.org/migrations/legacy/almleg.html - 9k -


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Hi folks
I read through some wonderful posts. You all are so great and informative. 
I have to get to bed early, do a treatment in order to try to avoid a bout of vertigo. 
See you all soon! j



Ingried said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> It is that "trespass" part they have overlooked for so long.


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## Pixiedust (Aug 30, 2013)

Thank you Cheeky Blighter for starting this thread. \Tthere are some very interesting points being made here.
I too am a woman of color. 
I would like to stay and post when I have more time.
I am very sorry that there are a few ladies who are trying to ruin it. There are always going to be those kinds of poeple who can't leave well enough alone. Keep up the good work, Cheeky Blighter.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Seems as though some of our founding fathers who believed so strongly in having rights for themselves didn't have a problem being slave owners. Then there were others who saw what a terrible institution it was and actually lived by their Christian principals.

This is a list of the presidents who owned slaves and those who didn't.

1. George Washington
1789-1797
VA

Yes.When GW took over Mount Vernon at age 22 there were 18 slaves. When he married he gained control of 200 more which technically belonged to the estate of his wifes first husband. By 1786 he owned 216 slaves. 
While GW was serving as president in Philadelphia a Pennsylvania law was passed freeing slaves whose owners had been citizens of the state for six months. GW sent his two most valuable slaves home, telling them it was for his wifes convenience.
In 1796 Oney (or Ona) Judge ran away to New Hampshire.She was one of GWs slaves - Marthas personal servant. President GW asked the Treasury Secretary and a customs agent for help in getting her back, by force, if necessary - but she never returned.

When GW left the presidency he apparently left some house slaves behind in Philadelphia, knowing that under state law they would be quietly freed by having spent a certain amount of time in Pennsylvania.

When he died in 1799 his will called for his manservant William Lee to be freed immediately, and given a pension. The other slaves were to be freed when his widow died. Martha chose to free them two years later. According to Abigail Adams this was because MW feared her life might be in danger, since her death meant freedom for the slaves.

Neither GW nor MW could legally free the dower slaves which still belonged to the Custis estate.

1786: I can only say that no man living wishes more sincerely than I do to see the abolition of (slavery) But when slaves who are happy & content to remain with their present masters, are tampered with & seduced to leave them it introduces more evils than it can cure."

2. John Adams owned no slaves.
1797-1801
Mass

1820: I shudder when I think of the calamities which slavery is likely to produce in this country. You would think me mad if I were to describe my anticipations. If the gangrene is not stopped I can see nothing but insurrection of the blacks against the whites.

3. Thomas Jefferson
1801-1809
VA

Yes. TJ inherited many slaves. His wife brought a dowry of more than 100 slaves, and he purchased many more throughout his life. At some points he was one of the largest slaveowners in Virginia.

In 1790 TJ gave his newly married daughter and her husband 1000 acres of land and 25 slaves.
In 1798 TJ owned 141 slaves, many of them elderly. Two years later he owned 93.

One of TJs slaves was Sally Hemings, allegedly the half-sister of his deceased wife. During TJs presidency a rumor appeared in print that she was his mistress. TJ denied this story, which was also passed on as Hemings family tradition. The youngest of Hemings six children (and the only one whose paternity can be traced through DNA) definitely descended from the Jefferson line, presumably either through TJ, his brother Randolph, or one of Randolphs sons. TJ was in the vicinity of SH during each period of conception. For a discussion of the DNA issue see: http://tinyurl.com/ckfkk2 and: http://jeffersondna.com

TJ freed one of Hemings children and allowed another to run away unpursued. Both of them were light enough to successfully pass for White.

TJ freed five slaves in his will, all members of the Hemings family. Sally was not among them. 130 slaves were sold when TJs estate was auctioned off. TJs daughter Martha freed Sally Hemings years later.

When when Jefferson's estate was auctioned off at his death 130 slaves were sold

1776: (King George III) has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating its most sacred rights of life and liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them into slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportation thither. This piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the CHRISTIAN king of Great Britain. Determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought and sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this execrable commerce: and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distinguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms against us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them thus paying off former crimes committed against the liberties of one people, with crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another. From TJ's draft of the Declaration of Independence.This paragraph was voted down by the Congressional Congress. TJ criticized King George for the very same thing he did so easily himself.

4. James Madison
1809-1817
VA

Yes. JM grew up in a slave-owning family and owned slaves all his life. 
In 1833 JM sold several of his farms but not his slaves. A year later he sold 16 slaves to a relative - with their permission.

He did not free his slaves in his will.

1819: "A general emancipation of slaves ought to be 1. gradual. 2. equitable & satisfactory to the individuals immediately concerned. 3. consistent with the existing & durable prejudices of the nation... To be consistent with existing and probably unalterable prejudices in the U.S. freed blacks ought to be permanently removed beyond the region occupied by or allotted to a White population." (Madison)

5. James Monroe
1817-1825
VA

Yes. JM inherited a slave named Ralph. When he owned the farm Highland he owned 30 to 40 slaves.

1801: We perceive an existing evil which commenced under our Colonial System, with which we are not properly chargeable, or if at all not in the present degree, and we acknowledge the extreme difficulty of remedying it."(Monroe)

6. John Quincy Adams
1825-1829
Mass

No.

1841: "What can I do for the cause of God and man, for the progress of human emancipation, for the suppression of the African slave-trade? Yet my conscience presses me on; let me but die upon the breach."(Adams)

7. Andrew Jackson
1829-1837
SC

Yes. AJ bought his first slave, a young woman, in 1788.By 1794 his business included slave trading and he had purchased at least 16 slaves.

In the 1820s Jackson owned about 160 slaves.
He did not free his slaves in his will.

1822: "As far as lenientcy can be extended to these unfortunate creatures I wish you to do so; subordination must be obtained first, and then good treatment."(Jackson)

8. Martin Van Buren
1837-1841
NY

Yes, but not while he was president. When MVB was young his father owned six slaves.

His only slave, Tom, ran away in 1814 (approx.).When Tom was found 8 years later, MVB offered him for sale to the finder for $50.

1837: Before the election I declared that I must go into the Presidential chair the inflexible and uncompromising opponent of every attempt on the part of Congress to abolish slavery in the District of Columbia against the wishes of the slaveholding States, and also with a determination equally decided to resist the slightest interference with it in the States where it exists. (Van Buren)

9. William Henry Harrison
1841
VA

Yes, but not while he was president.

WHHs father and grandfather owned many slaves. WHH took seven of them with him to the Northwest Territory in 1800 where slavery was illegal. They then became indentured servants on terms undistinguishable from slavery.

1801: WHH purchase a runaway slave and later freed him. He stayed on for many years as a servant.

1804: WHH was appointed Governor of Indiana territory, which was free soil. He attempted to have slavery made legal there, but generally followed the law by keeping Blacks as indentured servants who were free after about a decade of service.

1820: We cannot emancipate the slaves of the other states without their consent (except) by producing a convulsion which would undo us all. We must wait the slow but certain progress of those good principles which are everywhere gaining ground, and which assuredly will ultimately prevail.

10. John Tyler
1841-1845
VA

Yes.

1838: (God) works most inscrutably to the understandings of men; - the ***** is torn from Africa, a barbarian, ignorant and idolatrous; he is restored civilized, enlightened, and a Christian. (Tyler)

11. James K. Polk
1845-1849
NC

Yes. In 1832 he had fifteen slaves.

1830: A slave dreads the punishment of stripes (i.e. whipping) more than he does imprisonment, and that description of punishment has, besides, a beneficial effect upon his fellow-slaves.

12. Zachary Taylor
1849-1850
VA

Yes. ZT's father owned 26 slaves in 1800.

In 1847 ZT owned more than 100 slaves. 
ZT supposedly never sold a slave.

1847: So far as slavery is concerned, we of the south must throw ourselves on the constitution and defend our rights under it to the last, and when arguments will no longer suffice, we will appeal to the sword, if necessary. (Hamilton)

13. Millard Fillmore
1850-1853
NY

No.

1850: God knows that I detest slavery, but it is an existing evil, for which we are not responsible, and we must endure it, and give it such protection as is guaranteed by the constitution, till we can get rid of it without destroying the last hope of free government in the world.

14. Franklin Pierce
1853-1857
NH

No.

1838: The citizen of New Hampshire is no more responsible, morally or politically for the existence and continuance of this domestic institution (slavery) in Virginia or Maryland, than he would be for the existence of any similar institutions in France or Persia. Why? Because these are matters over which the States...retained the sole and exclusive control, and for which they are alone responsible... It is admitted that domestic slavery exists here (Washington, DC) in its mildest form. That part of the population are bound together by friendship and the nearer relations of life. They are attached to the families in which they have lived from childhood. They are comfortably provided for, and apparently contented." (from Congressional Globe 1838)

15. James Buchanan
1857-1861
PA

Technically no. While running for the senate from Pennsylvania JB discovered that his sisters husband owned two slaves in Virginia. JB purchased them, immediately converting them to his indentured servants. Daphne Cook, aged 22, was indentured for seven years. Ann Cook, age 5, was indentured for 23 years.

JB was the only president who never married. For more than a decade he shared a home with Senator William Rufus King of Alabama, leading to speculation, then and now, that they were homosexuals. King was a slaveowner and some historians think his influence was the reason JB was more pro-South and pro-slavery than the typical Pennsylvania politician. (The Other Buchanan Controversy.)

1836: "The natural tendency of their publications is to produce dissatisfaction and revolt among the slaves, and to incite their wild passions to vengeance... Many a mother clasps her infant to her bosom when she retires to rest, under dreadful apprehensions that she may be aroused from her slumbers by the savage yells of the slaves by whom she is surrounded. These are the works of the abolitionists."

16. Abraham Lincoln
1861-1865
KY

No.

1865: I have always thought that all men should be free; but if any should be slaves it should be first those who desire it for themselves, and secondly those who desire it for others. Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally. (Lincoln)

17. Andrew Johnson
1865-1869
NC

Yes, but not while he was president. AJ bought his first slave, a manservant named Sam, in 1837. He eventually owned 8.

AJ owned slaves at the beginning of the Civil War. He said that some of them came back voluntarily after being confiscated by the Confederates, and these he treated as freemen.

If he didnt free all of his individually he certainly freed them in 1864 when, as military governor of Tennessee, he proclaimed freedom for all slaves in the state.

1865: You tell me, friends, of the liberation of the colored people of the South. But have you thought of the millions of Southern white people who have been liberated by the war?

18. Ulysses S. Grant
1869-1877
OH

Yes. The only evidence that USG owned slaves is a document he signed in 1859 freeing one, William Jones. However, Grant certainly had some control over and use of slaves his father-in-law gave his wife.

1885: "The (South) was burdened with an institution abhorrent to all civilized people not brought up under it, and one which degraded labor, kept it in ignorance and enervated the governing class... Soon the slaves would have outnumbered the masters, and, not being in sympathy with them, would have risen in their might and exterminated them. The war was expensive to the South, as well as to the North, both in blood and treasure, but it was worth all it cost." (Grant)


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Excellent info, Cheeky! Thanks so much for presenting it to us.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

This post is a rather long one, but I found it to be very complete, naming different laws for different states.
Meet Jim Crow Laws.

From the 1880s into the 1960s, a majority of American states enforced segregation through "Jim Crow" laws (so called after a black character in minstrel shows). From Delaware to California, and from North Dakota to Texas, many states (and cities, too) could impose legal punishments on people for consorting with members of another race. The most common types of laws forbade intermarriage and ordered business owners and public institutions to keep their black and white clientele separated. Here is a sampling of laws from various states.

Nurses: No person or corporation shall require any white female nurse to nurse in wards or rooms in hospitals, either public or private, in which ***** men are placed. *Alabama*

Buses: All passenger stations in this state operated by any motor transportation company shall have separate waiting rooms or space and separate ticket windows for the white and colored races. *Alabama*

Railroads: The conductor of each passenger train is authorized and required to assign each passenger to the car or the division of the car, when it is divided by a partition, designated for the race to which such passenger belongs. *Alabama*

Restaurants: It shall be unlawful to conduct a restaurant or other place for the serving of food in the city, at which white and colored people are served in the same room, unless such white and colored persons are effectually separated by a solid partition extending from the floor upward to a distance of seven feet or higher, and unless a separate entrance from the street is provided for each compartment.* Alabama*

Pool and Billiard Rooms: It shall be unlawful for a ***** and white person to play together or in company with each other at any game of pool or billiards. *Alabama*

Toilet Facilities, Male: Every employer of white or ***** males shall provide for such white or ***** males reasonably accessible and separate toilet facilities. *Alabama*

Intermarriage: The marriage of a person of Caucasian blood with a *****, Mongolian, Malay, or Hindu shall be null and void. *Arizona*

Intermarriage: All marriages between a white person and a *****, or between a white person and a person of ***** descent to the fourth generation inclusive, are hereby forever prohibited. *Florida*

Cohabitation: Any ***** man and white woman, or any white man and ***** woman, who are not married to each other, who shall habitually live in and occupy in the nighttime the same room shall each be punished by imprisonment not exceeding twelve (12) months, or by fine not exceeding five hundred ($500.00) dollars. *Florida*

Education: The schools for white children and the schools for ***** children shall be conducted separately. 
*Florida*

Juvenile Delinquents: There shall be separate buildings, not nearer than one fourth mile to each other, one for white boys and one for ***** boys. White boys and ***** boys shall not, in any manner, be associated together or worked together. *Florida*

Mental Hospitals: The Board of Control shall see that proper and distinct apartments are arranged for said patients, so that in no case shall ******* and white persons be together. *Georgia*

Intermarriage: It shall be unlawful for a white person to marry anyone except a white person. Any marriage in violation of this section shall be void. *Georgia*

Barbers: No colored barber shall serve as a barber [to] white women or girls. *Georgia*

Burial: The officer in charge shall not bury, or allow to be buried, any colored persons upon ground set apart or used for the burial of white persons. *Georgia*

Restaurants: All persons licensed to conduct a restaurant, shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room or serve the two races anywhere under the same license. *Georgia*

Amateur Baseball: It shall be unlawful for any amateur white baseball team to play baseball on any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of a playground devoted to the ***** race, and it shall be unlawful for any amateur colored baseball team to play baseball in any vacant lot or baseball diamond within two blocks of any playground devoted to the white race. *Georgia*

Parks: It shall be unlawful for colored people to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the benefit, use and enjoyment of white persons...and unlawful for any white person to frequent any park owned or maintained by the city for the use and benefit of colored persons. *Georgia*

Wine and Beer: All persons licensed to conduct the business of selling beer or wine...shall serve either white people exclusively or colored people exclusively and shall not sell to the two races within the same room at any time. *Georgia*

Reform Schools: The children of white and colored races committed to the houses of reform shall be kept entirely separate from each other. *Kentucky*

Circus Tickets: All circuses, shows, and tent exhibitions, to which the attendance of...more than one race is invited or expected to attend shall provide for the convenience of its patrons not less than two ticket offices with individual ticket sellers, and not less than two entrances to the said performance, with individual ticket takers and receivers, and in the case of outside or tent performances, the said ticket offices shall not be less than twenty-five (25) feet apart. *Louisiana*

Housing: Any person...who shall rent any part of any such building to a ***** person or a ***** family when such building is already in whole or in part in occupancy by a white person or white family, or vice versa when the building is in occupancy by a ***** person or ***** family, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than twenty-five ($25.00) nor more than one hundred ($100.00) dollars or be imprisoned not less than 10, or more than 60 days, or both such fine and imprisonment in the discretion of the court. *Louisiana*

The Blind: The board of trustees shall...maintain a separate building...on separate ground for the admission, care, instruction, and support of all blind persons of the colored or black race. *Louisiana*

Intermarriage: All marriages between a white person and a *****, or between a white person and a person of ***** descent, to the third generation, inclusive, or between a white person and a member of the Malay race; or between the ***** a nd a member of the Malay race; or between a person of ***** descent, to the third generation, inclusive, and a member of the Malay race, are forever prohibited, and shall be void. *Maryland*

Railroads: All railroad companies and corporations, and all persons running or operating cars or coaches by steam on any railroad line or track in the State of Maryland, for the transportation of passengers, are hereby required to provide separate cars or coaches for the travel and transportation of the white and colored passengers. *Maryland*

Education: Separate schools shall be maintained for the children of the white and colored races. *Mississippi*

Promotion of Equality: Any person...who shall be guilty of printing, publishing or circulating printed, typewritten or written matter urging or presenting for public acceptance or general information, arguments or suggestions in favor of social equality or of intermarriage between whites and *******, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and subject to fine or not exceeding five hundred (500.00) dollars or imprisonment not exceeding six (6) months or both. *Mississippi*

Intermarriage: The marriage of a white person with a ***** or mulatto or person who shall have one-eighth or more of ***** blood, shall be unlawful and void. 
*Mississipp*

Hospital Entrances: There shall be maintained by the governing authorities of every hospital maintained by the state for treatment of white and colored patients separate entrances for white and colored patients and visitors, and such entrances shall be used by the race only for which they are prepared. *Mississippi*

Prisons: The warden shall see that the white convicts shall have separate apartments for both eating and sleeping from the ***** convicts. *Mississippi*

Education: Separate free schools shall be established for the education of children of African descent; and it shall be unlawful for any colored child to attend any white school, or any white child to attend a colored school. *Missouri*

Intermarriage: All marriages between...white persons and ******* or white persons and Mongolians...are prohibited and declared absolutely void...No person having one-eighth part or more of ***** blood shall be permitted to marry any white person, nor shall any white person be permitted to marry any ***** or person having one-eighth part or more of ***** blood. *Missouri*

Education: Separate rooms [shall] be provided for the teaching of pupils of African descent, and [when] said rooms are so provided, such pupils may not be admitted to the school rooms occupied and used by pupils of Caucasian or other descent. *New Mexico*

Textbooks: Books shall not be interchangeable between the white and colored schools, but shall continue to be used by the race first using them. *North Carolina*

Libraries: The state librarian is directed to fit up and maintain a separate place for the use of the colored people who may come to the library for the purpose of reading books or periodicals. *North Carolina*

Militia: The white and colored militia shall be separately enrolled, and shall never be compelled to serve in the same organization.No organization of colored troops shall be permitted where white troops are available, and while white permitted to be organized, colored troops shall be under the command of white officers. *North Carolina*

Transportation: The...Utilities Commission...is empowered and directed to require the establishment of separate waiting rooms at all stations for the white and colored races. *North Carolina*

Teaching: Any instructor who shall teach in any school, college or institution where members of the white and colored race are received and enrolled as pupils for instruction shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and upon conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not less than ten dollars ($10.00) nor more than fifty dollars ($50.00) for each offense. *Oklahoma*

Fishing, Boating, and Bathing: The [Conservation] Commission shall have the right to make segregation of the white and colored races as to the exercise of rights of fishing, boating and bathing. *Oklahoma*

Mining: The baths and lockers for the ******* shall be separate from the white race, but may be in the same building. *Oklahoma*

Telephone Booths: The Corporation Commission is hereby vested with power and authority to require telephone companies...to maintain separate booths for white and colored patrons when there is a demand for such separate booths. That the Corporation Commission shall determine the necessity for said separate booths only upon complaint of the people in the town and vicinity to be served after due hearing as now provided by law in other complaints filed with the Corporation Commission. *Oklahoma*

Lunch Counters: No persons, firms, or corporations, who or which furnish meals to passengers at station restaurants or station eating houses, in times limited by common carriers of said passengers, shall furnish said meals to white and colored passengers in the same room, or at the same table, or at the same counter. *South Carolina*

Child Custody: It shall be unlawful for any parent, relative, or other white person in this State, having the control or custody of any white child, by right of guardianship, natural or acquired, or otherwise, to dispose of, give or surrender such white child permanently into the custody, control, maintenance, or support, of a *****. *South Carolina*

Libraries: Any white person of such county may use the county free library under the rules and regulations prescribed by the commissioners court and may be entitled to all the privileges thereof. Said court shall make proper provision for the ******* of said county to be served through a separate branch or branches of the county free library, which shall be administered by [a] custodian of the ***** race under the supervision of the county librarian. *Texas*

Education: [The County Board of Education] shall provide schools of two kinds; those for white children and those for colored children. *Texas*

Theaters: Every person...operating...any public hall, theatre, opera house, motion picture show or any place of public entertainment or public assemblage which is attended by both white and colored persons, shall separate the white race and the colored race and shall set apart and designate...certain seats therein to be occupied by white persons and a portion thereof , or certain seats therein, to be occupied by colored persons. *Virginia*

Railroads: The conductors or managers on all such railroads shall have power, and are hereby required, to assign to each white or colored passenger his or her respective car, coach or compartment. If the passenger fails to disclose his race, the conductor and managers, acting in good faith, shall be the sole judges of his race. *Virginia*

Intermarriage: All marriages of white persons with *******, Mulattos, Mongolians, or Malaya hereafter contracted in the State of Wyoming are and shall be illegal and void. *Wyoming*


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky, wasn't it Michele Bachman, leader of the Tea Party who said that "Our founding fathers fought very hard to end slavery in America?" OOPS one more Bachmannism.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Kapish?[/quote]

Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Conservative cow chips _are_ infinitely better than all others.
> 
> Kapish?


Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Just read through Cheeky's post about the Jim Crow laws. I thought I had knew them all, but good gosh--separate phone booths? That's one I wouldn't have even dreamed of. Absolutely insane.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just read through Cheeky's post about the Jim Crow laws. I thought I had knew them all, but good gosh--separate phone booths? That's one I wouldn't have even dreamed of. Absolutely insane.


A hem, that was my post lol


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> My God, the Netherndals talked back to you?


Neanderthal:
Primitive humans which lived throughout much of Europe, but particularlyy in France, and Germany.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> A hem, that was my post lol


Whoops--sorry Patty!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky, wasn't it Michele Bachman, leader of the Tea Party who said that "Our founding fathers fought very hard to end slavery in America?" OOPS one more Bachmannism.


Yes, bless her little heart, you are correct Patty. She has a lot of strange beliefs as I recall and there is that other one about "praying the Gay away" Reminds me of a song, "She's So Heavenly Minded She Ain't No Earthly Good" It's one of my favorites. A good old country tune. Another faux Christian but folks just eat that stuff up. All that make up and her hair so pretty how can anyone resist her charm.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I will always be thankful that my parents taught us just as Dr. King did that it is the content of someone's character that is important. It's so tragic what adults do to kids when they pass on their own warped racist beliefs. When kids can just be kids they show a lot more common sense than the adults around them do.


We're all still waiting for you to apply the lessons your parents supposedly taught you to your actions and words in this thread.

Multiple apologies are required to specific individuals including me.

So how about it? Apologize for what you said and posted both privately and publicly and start on a new path to treating everyone equally with dignity and respect.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Neanderthal:
> Primitive humans which lived throughout much of Europe, but particularlyy in France, and Germany.


Results of the Neanderthal genome project (2010) show that there was some mixing of DNA between Neanderthals and modern man--evidence that they not only existed but at one time lived side by side with us. Frankly I find that fascinating. Every culture seems to have its own Big Foot/Sasquatch/Yeti legend passed down from generation to generation. I've often wondered if there was once a grain of truth in those tales, if they originated in a time when Neanderthals did exist somewhere on the fringes of modern human societies.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Kapish?
> 
> Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you.


And your point is? Who said the word I used was Italian? I didn't. I don't speak Italian.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Results of the Neanderthal genome project (2010) show that there was some mixing of DNA between Neanderthals and modern man--evidence that they not only existed but at one time lived side by side with us. Frankly I find that fascinating. Every culture seems to have its own Big Foot/Sasquatch/Yeti legend passed down from generation to generation. I've often wondered if there was once a grain of truth in those tales, if they originated in a time when Neanderthals did exist somewhere on the fringes of modern human societies.


I'm the original Bigfoot----size 9.5, narrow


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Patty, thanks again for listing those sordid Jim Crow laws. Awful to read, but they should at least dispel any notions that African-Americans are lazy and unmotivated. Obviously the black communities rose to the challenge of generating and maintaining their own parallel economy. Under Jim Crow they had to recruit and train their own teachers, university administrators, medical personnel, barbers, lawyers, business owners. They could and they did--bravo!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm the original Bigfoot----size 9.5, narrow


So the truth comes out--YOU'RE the one who's been leaving those tracks all over the Pacific Northwest!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Results of the Neanderthal genome project (2010) show that there was some mixing of DNA between Neanderthals and modern man--evidence that they not only existed but at one time lived side by side with us. Frankly I find that fascinating. Every culture seems to have its own Big Foot/Sasquatch/Yeti legend passed down from generation to generation. I've often wondered if there was once a grain of truth in those tales, if they originated in a time when Neanderthals did exist somewhere on the fringes of modern human societies.


'The thread the runs so true' is the DNA strand... even more compelling is mitochondrial DNA, which passes ONLY from mother to child, no exceptions; men cannot pass it on. We've found fascinating correlations in racehorses for this matrilineal influence, much linked to the survivability characteristics, such as respiratory systems, heart, etc. The studies on MtDNA in humans are fairly recent and I think the discoveries will be wonderfully challenging and mind opening. For a good little discussion go to: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/mtdna.html
By the way... the mitochondrial ancestress of all mankind today lived in Africa.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> 'The thread the runs so true' is the DNA strand... even more compelling is mitochondrial DNA, which passes ONLY from mother to child, no exceptions; men cannot pass it on. We've found fascinating correlations in racehorses for this matrilineal influence, much linked to the survivability characteristics, such as respiratory systems, heart, etc. The studies on MtDNA in humans are fairly recent and I think the discoveries will be wonderfully challenging and mind opening. For a good little discussion go to: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/neanderthals/mtdna.html
> By the way... the mitochondrial ancestress of all mankind today lived in Africa.


It's a great discussion, but oh so complex. I gather that all the other women of "Eve's" generation and their descendants failed to pass on their mitochondrial DNA by at some point failing to reproduce or by producing only sons...just genetic bad luck I guess, but the fact that this could happen must mean that there weren't really too many humans on earth at the time.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Patty, thanks again for listing those sordid Jim Crow laws. Awful to read, but they should at least dispel any notions that African-Americans are lazy and unmotivated. Obviously the black communities rose to the challenge of generating and maintaining their own parallel economy. Under Jim Crow they had to recruit and train their own teachers, university administrators, medical personnel, barbers, lawyers, business owners. They could and they did--bravo!


Yes they did! It was very hard to read without a tear or 2.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
Thank you. This is the kind of information that should be taught in every School. If that does not bring one to tears, nothing will.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

I agree that there is a matrilineal wellspring in Iraq that is fairly recent and it certainly may be the MtEve that is most prevalent in the current gene pool. So much cultural traveled happened in areas around Turkey, Iraq, the Caucasus. But those Iraqi Eves came from somewhere else. The first group which left Africa about 1.9 million years ago, and genetic data suggest that at least two other groups left Africa later: First, about 500,000 to 300,000 years ago, the ancestors of Neanderthals. Then, about 50,000 years ago, another migration that showed up less than 100,000 years ago in Indonesia. Other traces were more than 125,000 years in southern Siberia. They were certainly stubborn and hardy people, and they didn't seem to mind walking! When I look at data like this, measured against current racial tensions, I think we should get over ourselves, and accept that we are all from somewhere else and truly kin.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

NJG said:


> Speaking of cherrios, has anyone ever tried fried cherrios? Just put a tbsp or two of butter in a pan and add your cherrios. Stir them around for awhile and they get nice and crisp. Add a little salt and enjoy. I have also added a little cinnamon. I have been eating these since I was a little girl and now my grandkids love them. Maddie always called them fried che-che's. Good way to eat more cherrios, breakfast and snacks.


NO!!!!! Dang, that sounds good.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> One might argue that this thread is dedicated to POV Liberals. We are trying not to respond to the opposition who are dedicated to disruption and attention. Some 'one' doesn't belong here.


Not trying, I'm not.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> I agree that there is a matrilineal wellspring in Iraq that is fairly recent and it certainly may be the MtEve that is most prevalent in the current gene pool. So much cultural traveled happened in areas around Turkey, Iraq, the Caucasus. But those Iraqi Eves came from somewhere else. The first group which left Africa about 1.9 million years ago, and genetic data suggest that at least two other groups left Africa later: First, about 500,000 to 300,000 years ago, the ancestors of Neanderthals. Then, about 50,000 years ago, another migration that showed up less than 100,000 years ago in Indonesia. Other traces were more than 125,000 years in southern Siberia. They were certainly stubborn and hardy people, and they didn't seem to mind walking! When I look at data like this, measured against current racial tensions, I think we should get over ourselves, and accept that we are all from somewhere else and truly kin.


Quite honestly, I don't understand why fundamentalist Christians don't feel that sense of kinship even more strongly than others--they truly believe that every person on earth is a descendant of one man and one woman (Adam and Eve), who lived just six thousand years ago.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Dear Cheeky Blighter, Thanks for organizing this thread. I'm enjoying it immensely. Unfortunately, the opposition is enjoying it also.....too much to discuss among themselves.
> 
> You job is akin to herding cats. Thanks again.


Me too, Cheeky. There is opposition? I thought they were gnats.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Make that your mantra, Joey. It certainly fits you.


I always thought he was a closet homosexual.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> I studied a lot of the History of this Country to become an informed Citizen.
> I am learning a great deal more now from your posting.
> Thank you very much.
> ...


As I read the timelines, I notice that the South was the last to deal with slavery and that trend continues today. Huge sigh!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Cheeky, your history lessons are fascinating and horrible. Thank you for posting them.
> 
> I thought I might add another, more recent piece of history that you will all be familiar with. I think it bears looking at every so often.
> 
> http://www.upworthy.com/watch-a-tea...e-each-other-for-the-best-reason-imaginable-2


Thanks, AW!


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Sounds like an extended case of "mama always liked me best"... but some families are like that! I'm a black sheep in the family and have always found my true kin among the folks I have encountered in life ... every country, race, social/economic status and religion is represented to some extent. I get to share in lots of holiday celebrations besides the ones I grew up with. I used to have open houses and invited ALL my friends... it was interesting to watch how some would separate themselves from othera they saw as different. But they all had to come to the kitchen to eat, and they had to pass the salt from one to the other, no exception (there was only ONE shaker...)


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Seems as though some of our founding fathers who believed so strongly in having rights for themselves didn't have a problem being slave owners. Then there were others who saw what a terrible institution it was and actually lived by their Christian principals.


And many of the slave owners didn't have a problem fathering children by their slaves. I suspect that many of us are more "integrated" than we know. I seem to recall reading that the American Indians also paired with freed slaves. I'll try to locate that info again.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This post is a rather long one, but I found it to be very complete, naming different laws for different states.
> Meet Jim Crow Laws.


No surprise there!! Alabama, Louisiana and Mississippi are still having huge issues. I think I mentioned about visiting Alabama earlier. Racism abounds.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Can you throw big mouths as long as you can lift their enormous weight?
> 
> If so, sign me up for five please.


Five people to lift you? Why don't we just get a fork lift and haul your big a-- out of here? That way nobody has to get hurt.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky and Patty
I'm just catching up on reading the timeline, the president-slave owners, and the Jim Crow laws. Thank you for the informative posts. It doesn't hurt to revisit these things, does it?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky, wasn't it Michele Bachman, leader of the Tea Party who said that "Our founding fathers fought very hard to end slavery in America?" OOPS one more Bachmannism.


Bachman = twit.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

bcdado said:


> Bigotry is an awful thing. I had two incidents that I can remember when I was young that pointed that out to me personally. I am 100% Italian. One day my grandparents and parents were discussing my cousin (born here and her mom also) and how her parents were outraged and her dad (came from Italy) ready to disown her. Her "crime"? Her father was from one part of Italy and the family of the boy (born here, handsome, and smart) my cousin was in love with came from another. To my young ears that just rang of total stupidity. Another thing that happened was when some friends and I went to Coney Island and went into the "Fun House" - very dark and scary! The person next to me and I started holding hands and kept each other from freaking out. When we emerged into the daylight, lo and behold, the girl that I was holding hands with was not one of my white friends but a young black girl. We were both a little taken aback but smiled at each other and went on our ways. So if you are blind, does it matter if you are black or white or brown or green??? We are all the same under our skins and no one is any better than anyone else. I am 70 years old with a way liberal (not "lib") POV and it pains me to see the hatred, bitterness, and meanness exhibited here by a few posters who obviously haven't learned that lesson yet. Why continue to post where you are not wanted? So sad!


Thank you for your post. I'm an American Apache Indian who has been discriminated against by several who post here so I do understand racism!

Cheeky sent me a very hateful PM that was titled "leave POV" but I did not open it as she sent several others the same email. You will find that PM posted here but I'm not sure of the page.

The American Indian is still hated today as in the past. Everyone seems to demand respect, but the American Indian is still left out! We have always been here & we will always be in America as not very many Indians marry outside of our race; therefore we will remain in America!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm the original Bigfoot----size 9.5, narrow


It is you! I kind of wondered when I met you but I didn't want to ask. You must feel right at home up in the north woods of Minnesota. I hear they have them up there but I didn't ever think I would actually meet one. This is so exciting!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GW sad state of affairs with the Jim Crow laws.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's a great discussion, but oh so complex. I gather that all the other women of "Eve's" generation and their descendants failed to pass on their mitochondrial DNA by at some point failing to reproduce or by producing only sons...just genetic bad luck I guess, but the fact that this could happen must mean that there weren't really too many humans on earth at the time.


Well, first you have to believe there was an Eve. There is no proof she ever existed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is you! I kind of wondered when I met you but I didn't want to ask. You must feel right at home up in the north woods of Minnesota. I hear they have them up there but I didn't ever think I would actually meet one. This is so exciting!


I remember seeing large footprints outside of the lakehouse but didn't want to alarm anyone!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you for your post. I'm an American Apache Indian who has been discriminated against by several who post here so I do understand racism!
> 
> Cheeky sent me a very hateful PM that was titled "leave POV" but I did not open it as she sent several others the same email. You will find that PM posted here but I'm not sure of the page.
> 
> The American Indian is still hated today as in the past. Everyone seems to demand respect, but the American Indian is still left out! We have always been here & we will always be in America as not very many Indians marry outside of our race; therefore we will remain in America!


Wah, wah, wah.' Same old story Jane. I don't hate Native Americans. 
Respect isn't a given, it is something you have to earn no matter what sex or race you may be.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Well, first you have to believe there was an Eve. There is no proof she ever existed.


Didn't mean the Biblical Eve, but rather the mitochondrial one--"refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living anatomically modern humans. In other words, she was the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mothers side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. " The theory is that she lived 140,00 to 200,000 years ago, most likely in East Africa.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> And many of the slave owners didn't have a problem fathering children by their slaves. I suspect that many of us are more "integrated" than we know.


Very true, GW. It's a good thing for bigots that the "one drop" laws enacted throughout the South were struck down by the courts--Mark D. Shriver, a molecular anthropologist at Penn State University, discovered that 30% of self-identified "whites" are in fact of mixed race.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Conservative cow chips _are_ infinitely better than all others.
> 
> Kapish?


I guess if you have to be a piece of cow poop you are correct. Conservatives do make the best cow chips. Infinitely!
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> And many of the slave owners didn't have a problem fathering children by their slaves. I suspect that many of us are more "integrated" than we know. I seem to recall reading that the American Indians also paired with freed slaves. I'll try to locate that info again.


Also their were Native Americans who were slave owners GW. I have learned a lot the last few days researching the slavery timeline. There were also Native Americans who fled with the slaves from Texas into Mexico because they were treated so terribly by the Whites. I am very glad I have never lived in the South. Some of the places I have visited there I felt like I was stepping way back in time. Alabama and Mississippi were the two worst I have been in. When we were in Vicksburg we were stopped by a sheriff's deputy who asked my husband for drivers license and proof of ownership of our car. Then he asked us where we were staying and asked to see our room key. He said "I don't think you folks want to be out here after dark. It's better if you go back to where you are staying." Nothing like that southern hospitality to make you feel welcome. We also saw "the right side" and "the wrong side" of the tracks in Anniston, AL. You can guess which folks lived on which side. I was naive enough to believe those things didn't exist any more but they do. I won't be going south again any time soon. In all fairness we met a lot of nice people too but sadly it's the bad ones I remember the most.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We also saw "the right side" and "the wrong side" of the tracks in Anniston, AL. You can guess which folks lived on which side. I was naive enough to believe those things didn't exist any more but they do.


Yes, the do--and not just in the South. Hopefully the place has changed since I last visited, but in the late 70s my grandmother's small Northern California town had what white residents referred to as a "n--gger town". Ghastly--especially in a place with just a few thousand residents.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, the do--and not just in the South. Hopefully the place has changed since I last visited, but in the late 70s my grandmother's small Northern California town had what white residents referred to as a "n--gger town". Ghastly--especially in a place with just a few thousand residents.


Disgusting isn't it, Susan? We'll be talking about the reasons people are like that soon enough.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Also their were Native Americans who were slave owners GW. I have learned a lot the last few days researching the slavery timeline. There were also Native Americans who fled with the slaves from Texas into Mexico because they were treated so terribly by the Whites. I am very glad I have never lived in the South. Some of the places I have visited there I felt like I was stepping way back in time. Alabama and Mississippi were the two worst I have been in. When we were in Vicksburg we were stopped by a sheriff's deputy who asked my husband for drivers license and proof of ownership of our car. Then he asked us where we were staying and asked to see our room key. He said "I don't think you folks want to be out here after dark. It's better if you go back to where you are staying." Nothing like that southern hospitality to make you feel welcome. We also saw "the right side" and "the wrong side" of the tracks in Anniston, AL. You can guess which folks lived on which side. I was naive enough to believe those things didn't exist any more but they do. I won't be going south again any time soon. In all fairness we met a lot of nice people too but sadly it's the bad ones I remember the most.


What a horrible experience that must have been for your family, Cheeky!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rest. Hope you feel better. Later.



jelun2 said:


> Hi folks
> I read through some wonderful posts. You all are so great and informative.
> I have to get to bed early, do a treatment in order to try to avoid a bout of vertigo.
> See you all soon! j


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please bear with us. Post when you can. Don't let the wrong people spoil this. Thanks for your patience.



Pixiedust said:


> Thank you Cheeky Blighter for starting this thread. \Tthere are some very interesting points being made here.
> I too am a woman of color.
> I would like to stay and post when I have more time.
> I am very sorry that there are a few ladies who are trying to ruin it. There are always going to be those kinds of poeple who can't leave well enough alone. Keep up the good work, Cheeky Blighter.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Translation: Oh you. You're funny.


To all the Liberal Ladies on POV I wish to thank you for your wonderful posts and encouraging words. I hope you will continue to visit us on this thread. If you are a Liberal you obviously know who you are and please do not let the handful of negative posters discourage you. I have forgiven them and I still believe the mature thing to do would be for them to go start their own thread and enjoy each other's company as we are doing here. I believe they are misguided in that they think I am not living up to my own beliefs but since they do not know me they really do not know what I believe and if I am correct only God knows the condition of anyone's soul. I don't believe God goes by the name knitsgiftspresents. Ergo, I don't judge you so don't you judge me. I do agree with peace and nonviolence but that does not mean I lower my own standards and allow others to be rude and abusive to me or to any of you who are truly my friends and are here with goodwill in your hearts. I owe none of them any apologies so I will not be making any. You are not my friends and everyone out here sees you for what you are and you are fooling no one but yourselves. I will just ignore you for the most part and talk around you. It's sad because you have totally destroyed any hope of my ever being friends with any of you. You hate everything you think you know about me and I don't particularly care for your heavy handed tactics. Why on earth would anyone ever want to befriend you when you are so unkind. I don't like to say that to anyone but when your only objective is to destroy this thread out of hatred for me and what ever it is you think I represent that is just not right thinking by anyone's definition.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bratty Patty, Regarding Jim Crow laws. Isn't it hard to believe that these laws made sense to many people not so long ago? To some people, they still do.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Rest. Hope you feel better. Later.


Same from me jelune. Get a good night's sleep and hope to see you soon.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bratty Patty, Regarding Jim Crow laws. Isn't it hard to believe that these laws made sense to many people not so long ago? To some people, they still do.


Sad but true, dame. It makes me sick.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

KPG will insist you're wrong. She/he always insists she/he knows everything. I'll be flabbergasted if a 'thanks for the info' comes your way. It would be a first.



midwegian said:


> Capisce (pronounced cah-PEESH) is an Italian word that is used in American slang to say "got it" or "understand." The correct word in Italian would be capisci (pronounced cah-PEE-shee) to address the second person informally, a.k.a. you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bratty Patty, Regarding Jim Crow laws. Isn't it hard to believe that these laws made sense to many people not so long ago? To some people, they still do.


It is so sad to read them and yet many would impose them again if they can. Look what the Tea Party is trying to do drag us all back to 50 years ago or more. The best days are ahead of us not behind us but we must always remember the past both the good and the bad. I am living in the here and now and having a wonderful time with friends. I look forward to the joys of tomorrow and hope it cools down about 20 degrees.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> To all the Liberal Ladies on POV I wish to thank you for your wonderful posts and encouraging words. I hope you will continue to visit us on this thread. If you are a Liberal you obviously know who you are and please do not let the handful of negative posters discourage you. I have forgiven them and I still believe the mature thing to do would be for them to go start their own thread and enjoy each other's company as we are doing here. I believe they are misguided in that they think I am not living up to my own beliefs but since they do not know me they really do not know what I believe and if I am correct only God knows the condition of anyone's soul. I don't believe God goes by the name knitsgiftspresents. Ergo, I don't judge you so don't you judge me. I do agree with peace and nonviolence but that does not mean I lower my own standards and allow others to be rude and abusive to me or to any of you who are truly my friends and are here with goodwill in your hearts. I owe none of them any apologies so I will not be making any. You are not my friends and everyone out here sees you for what you are and you are fooling no one but yourselves. I will just ignore you for the most part and talk around you. It's sad because you have totally destroyed any hope of my ever being friends with any of you. You hate everything you think you know about me and I don't particularly care for your heavy handed tactics. Why on earth would anyone ever want to befriend you when you are so unkind. I don't like to say that to anyone but when your only objective is to destroy this thread out of hatred for me and what ever it is you think I represent that is just not right thinking by anyone's definition.


WE know you, Cheeky, and believe me when I say that you owe not one member of that feckless mob any apology at all, especially knitpresentsgifts/Cherf. They certainly aren't worth the time or effort to worry about. Let's keep this thread alive and positive regardless of their rude interruptions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And your point is? Who said the word I used was Italian? I didn't. I don't speak Italian.


See what I mean midwegian?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Such salient points. Think on them before commenting. Such wisdom.

KPG Thanks You always say it so well!



knitpresentgifts said:


> The OP, herself, is known on KP as a hateful person to those who are non-Liberal in their thinking. If you want to see how she treats others, read her back posts. The OP posted in her opening post than edited it out what this thread was to represent in terms of the American Dream and no negativity.
> 
> The 2nd poster pointed out a grave mistake made by the OP. Then another asked what that edited post (.) meant and was lied to. That is typical for Cheeky Blighter. She did not get through one post following her own ideals in this new thread.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

We've talked about the legal aspects of Jim Crow segregation--here's something I found about the social ramifications. I apologize if the post seems a bit long--it's too interesting to cut!

"Most southern white Americans who grew up prior to 1954 expected black Americans to conduct themselves according to well-understood rituals of behavior. This racial etiquette governed the actions, manners, attitudes, and words of all black people when in the presence of whites. To violate this racial etiquette placed one's very life, and the lives of one's family, at risk.

Blacks were expected to refer to white males in positions of authority as "Boss" or "Cap'n" -- a title of respect that replaced "Master" or "Marster" used in slave times. Sometimes, the white children of one's white employer or a prominent white person might be called "Massa," to show special respect. If a white person was well known, a black servant or hired hand or tenant might speak in somewhat intimate terms, addressing the white person as "Mr. John" or "Miss Mary."

All black men, on the other hand, were called by their first names or were referred to as "Boy," "Uncle," and "Old Man" -- regardless of their age. If the white person did not personally know a black person, the term "******" or "******-fellow," might be used. In legal cases and the press, blacks were often referred to by the word "*****" with a first name attached, such as "***** Sam." At other times, the term "Jack," or some common name, was universally used in addressing black men not known to the white speaker. On the Pullman Sleeping cars on trains, for example, all the black porters answered to the name of "boy" or simply "George" (after the first name of George Pullman, who owned and built the Pullman Sleeping Cars).

Whites much preferred to give blacks honorary titles, such as Doctor, or Professor, or Reverend, in order to avoid calling them Mister. While the term "******" was universally used, some whites were uncomfortable with it because they knew it was offensive to most blacks. As a substitute, the word "niggra" often appeared in polite society.

Black women were addressed as "Auntie" or "girl." Under no circumstances would the title "Miss." or "Mrs." be applied. A holdover from slavery days was the term "Wench," a term that showed up in legal writings and depositions in the Jim Crow era. Some educated whites referred to black women by the words "colored ladies." Sometimes, just the word "lady" was used. White women allowed black servants and acquaintances to call them by their first names but with the word "Miss" attached as a modifier: "Miss Ann," "Miss Julie" or "Miss Scarlett," for example.

This practice of addressing blacks by words that denoted disrespect or inferiority reduced the black person to a non-person, especially in newspaper accounts. In reporting incidents involving blacks, the press usually adopted the gender-neutral term "*****," thus designating blacks as lifeless and unknown persons. For example, an accident report might read like this: "Rescuers discovered that two women, three men, four children, and five ******* were killed by the explosion."

In general, blacks and whites could meet and talk on the street. Almost always, however, the rules of racial etiquette required blacks to be agreeable and non-challenging, even when the white person was mistaken about something. Usually it was expected that blacks would step off the sidewalk when meeting whites or else walk on the outer street side of the walk thereby "giving whites the wall." Under no circumstances could a black person assume an air of equality with whites. Black men were expected to remove their caps and hats when talking with a white person. Those whites, moreover, who associated with blacks in a too friendly or casual manner ran the risk of being called a "****** lover."

Blacks and whites were not expected to eat together in public. It was okay for blacks to enter a restaurant to buy food to take out or to stand at the end of a lunch counter until their order was taken. Usually, they would then leave and wait outside for their food to be brought to them. Some places allowed blacks to eat in the kitchen. Nor were black customers always allowed to use store implements such as plates or dishes or even boxes. Black customers commonly brought their own tin pails and buckets to be filled.

The white owners of clothing stores did not allow blacks to try on clothing as a general rule, fearing that white customers would not buy clothes worn by African Americans. Some stores did allow blacks to put on clothing over their own clothes or to try on hats over a cloth scarf on their heads. Shoes were never tried on as a general rule, but most white clerks did allow exact measurements to be made. In most towns, black customers knew which stores could be expected to treat them with respect while not breaking the rules of racial etiquette.

Many public places, parks, and entertainment centers excluded blacks altogether after 1890, frequently by law if not by custom. Signs were often posted equating blacks with animals: "******* and dogs not allowed." In some communities blacks could attend public performances but only by using separate entrances in the back or via an alley. In public halls, theaters, and movie houses, they always sat upstairs in the so-called "****** heaven" or "buzzard roost." Even the annual state fairs would have a "colored day", allowing the black population to attend only on that specific day.

Law rather than custom separated the races in public transportation, but local habits of racial etiquette usually determined how the statutes were implemented. Some towns and municipalities put blacks in the rear of the streetcars while others required them up front where they could be watched by the car's operator. Custom did not allow motormen or conductors to assist black women with bags or parcels. Some municipal codes required blacks to be seated from the front to the rear while others allowed blacks to sit anywhere they wanted in the black section. In general, it was expected that blacks would give up their seats to white passengers during peak or crowded times.

Some towns required separate entrances to public buildings with blacks using one entry and whites another. In most cases, white clerks in stores and ticket stands always served white customers first, although no state or municipal law required this practice. Signs in the black section of waiting rooms at train stations, for example, customarily warned against loafing, spitting, and unacceptable behavior. No such signs were usually displayed in the white sections. Nor did blacks generally eat in the dining cars on trains, and, if they were allowed to eat there, a drawn curtain separated the one or two "colored tables" from the rest of the car. These rules did make exceptions, however, for black nurses and nannies who accompanied white children or elderly white people on trains and streetcars.

The color line and the codes of racial etiquette were also strictly observed in public hospitals, with separate wards for whites and blacks. Black nurses were allowed to minister to whites but not the other way round. If a black person needed an ambulance, for example, a private, black-owned-and-operated wagon or auto would have to be obtained. No exceptions were allowed no matter the extent of the injury or emergency. A similar Jim Crow code of conduct applied even in the U.S. Army. It was not until Eleanor Roosevelt intervened in WWII that black nurses were allowed to care for white soldiers, even though a serious shortage of nurses existed. The black nurses were used prior to Roosevelt's intervention to attend to German prisoners of war rather than U.S. soldiers.

The whole intent of Jim Crow etiquette boiled down to one simple rule: blacks must demonstrate their inferiority to whites by actions, words, and manners. Laws supported this racist code of behavior whenever racial customs started to weaken or breakdown in practice -- as they did during the Reconstruction era. When the laws were weakly or slowly applied, whites resorted to violence against blacks to reinforce the customs and standards of behavior. Indeed, whites commonly justified lynchings and the horrible murders of blacks during the Jim Crow era as defensive actions taken in response to black violations of the color line and rules of racial etiquette."


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is so sad to read them and yet many would impose them again if they can. Look what the Tea Party is trying to do drag us all back to 50 years ago or more. The best days are ahead of us not behind us but we must always remember the past both the good and the bad. I am living in the here and now and having a wonderful time with friends. I look forward to the joys of tomorrow and hope it cools down about 20 degrees.


We have rain tonight. It is like a sauna out there! Hopefully it will cool down.Just think that in 3-4 weeks we can get our first frost.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Another PHONY detected by KPG. You gals gotta keep your stories straight.



knitpresentgifts said:


> ============
> So I understand, were your parents against blacks and minorities or not? You've stated that your Dad was both "for" and "against" any black or non Christian. Which story shall I believe of them and how I can believe what you post and say?
> 
> I'd like to be clear and fair in my thoughts and wonder how you believe as you've stated two sides to the same story.
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Another PHONY detected by KPG. You gals gotta keep your stories straight.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


What's up RU? Bored with all the bible thumping tonite?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What a horrible experience that must have been for your family, Cheeky!


It was Patty. I really was shocked by it. I don't think I will ever go back again except to a city like Atlanta or Charleston. I would love to go to New Orleans. My parents and lot of friends have visited there and they all loved it. One of my roommates from college went down there to teach and that was in 1970 and she has been there ever since. There were known lynchings in Alabama and Mississippi as recently as 1965. Another kid I went to college with lived in Terry, MS and he remembered seeing a man hanging in a tree and that was in the 60's too before he moved north for college. Awful.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It was Patty. I really was shocked by it. I don't think I will ever go back again except to a city like Atlanta or Charleston. I would love to go to New Orleans. My parents and lot of friends have visited there and they all loved it. One of my roommates from college went down there to teach and that was in 1970 and she has been there ever since. There were known lynchings in Alabama and Mississippi as recently as 1965. Another kid I went to college with lived in Terry, MS and he remembered seeing a man hanging in a tree and that was in the 60's too before he moved north for college. Awful.


Atlanta surprised me. Such a diverse city. Many mixed races, blacks and whites acting like brother and sister, and the gay community is very well respected there. I see a city like that and wonder "What is wrong with everyone else?"
I was just reading an article about a man who left Mississippi to get an education. He was working in DC and decided to come home to Mississippi to help his small town rise out of poverty.
He was gay. He was missing for a few days when the sheriff found his body badly beaten and burned. His car was stolen and wrecked to make it look like his death was an accident. He was running for mayor of that town. They call it a "Mysterious death". The sheriff would not call it a hate crime, but just a typical murder.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What's up RU?


Patty, KPG must have sent RU to visit and do some damage control for all the big fibs she has been telling lately. There was a real good one last night that lovethelake told us KPG would apologize for but surpirse! No apology has been forthcoming. I really don't think KPG knows the difference any more she tells so many fibs to so many people. Patty, RU isn't the grand inquisitor from the KKK so you are not obligated to tell her anything. Ask her if she has flipped and become a Liberal.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What's up RU?


oops I double posted.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> oops I double posted.


She's here to stir it up Cheeky. She used to be one of the nicer righties. I guess the serpent got to her, too.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, I have really appreciated the work you put into your Slavery Timeline. I was a little surprised that there was no mention that the international slave trade was prohibited from 1808, though internal slave-trading continued.

One of the most interesting things about John Brown was that he lived and farmed in several black communities in Kansas and Nebraska while most abolitionists talked a good game, but wouldn't be caught dead socializing or farming with blacks.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What's up RU? Bored with all the bible thumping tonite?


Patty did you scare her away or was that just a bit of undigested meat I had for supper?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty did you scare her away or was that just a bit of undigested meat I had for supper?


LOL Just another hit and run, Cheeky!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I believe they (non Liberals) are misguided in that they think *I am not living up to my own beliefs* but since they do not know me they really do not know what I believe.
> 
> I do agree with peace and nonviolence but that does not mean I lower my own standards ...
> 
> ...


Here's more of CheekyBlighter waxing poetic:

*CheekyBlighter wrote:*

"I guess Momee must have a lot of bile in her gut and she so ladylike just vomited all over the thread. The right has no manners at all. "

"Just proved again stupid is as stupid does. What a waste of space."

"Both of you are dumb as stumps just like the rest of the right wing zealots."

"I won't post a photo of myself as you would be so jealous of my beauty."

"Obviously, she is like the rest of the righties, a big mouth and a loud voice and nothing of substance. Oh my, they are zombies!"

"Ignore the big bag 'o foul smelling rot. It has no idea what she/he/it is talking about and enjoys parading around out here like it has a brain."

"Shut your vile nasty mouth Jane and go climb back under the rock you call home and take your stupid snakes with you and you can go straight to the devil where you belong."

"No you and your friends on D&P are the lowest forms of humanity anywhere."
===============================
Here is one of my all-time personal favorites by CheekyBlighter:

"If you want to be treated well then start by treating others well."


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Also their were Native Americans who were slave owners GW. I have learned a lot the last few days researching the slavery timeline. There were also Native Americans who fled with the slaves from Texas into Mexico because they were treated so terribly by the Whites. I am very glad I have never lived in the South. Some of the places I have visited there I felt like I was stepping way back in time. Alabama and Mississippi were the two worst I have been in. When we were in Vicksburg we were stopped by a sheriff's deputy who asked my husband for drivers license and proof of ownership of our car. Then he asked us where we were staying and asked to see our room key. He said "I don't think you folks want to be out here after dark. It's better if you go back to where you are staying." Nothing like that southern hospitality to make you feel welcome. We also saw "the right side" and "the wrong side" of the tracks in Anniston, AL. You can guess which folks lived on which side. I was naive enough to believe those things didn't exist any more but they do. I won't be going south again any time soon. In all fairness we met a lot of nice people too but sadly it's the bad ones I remember the most.


I'm afraid I would also be considered naive, and wouldn't have believed things like that happen anymore, although since President Obama was elected, I realize racism is way more prevelant than I thought it was. Hopefully, as we have talked about before, the younger generation should make a difference. It is amazing what some elderly people believe. I and my boyfriend went to visit my Aunt Edna, age 90, one time and the next time I saw her, I was alone and she asked me if he had gone back to Texas. I said no, he doesn't live in Texas. Well she thought he lived there because he wore cowboy boots. There was a male nurse in the care center she lived in and she always called him her Dr. In her world men were Drs and women were nurses. I just saw a report that in Texas in 1980 the population of Houston was 52% white, but in 2010 the city is 26% white. The African American population has gone down a little from 27% to 23% and the Hispanic population has gone from 18% to 44%. Change is continuing to come so republicans be prepared.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I'm afraid I would also be considered naive, and wouldn't have believed things like that happen anymore, although since President Obama was elected, I realize racism is way more prevelant than I thought it was. Hopefully, as we have talked about before, the younger generation should make a difference. It is amazing what some elderly people believe. I and my boyfriend went to visit my Aunt Edna, age 90, one time and the next time I saw her, I was alone and she asked me if he had gone back to Texas. I said no, he doesn't live in Texas. Well she thought he lived there because he wore cowboy boots. There was a male nurse in the care center she lived in and she always called him her Dr. In her world men were Drs and women were nurses. I just saw a report that in Texas in 1980 the population of Houston was 52% white, but in 2010 the city is 26% white. The African American population has gone down a little from 27% to 23% and the Hispanic population has gone from 18% to 44%. Change is continuing to come so republicans be prepared.


Personally, I hope the republicans continue to antagonize everyone.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I have really appreciated the work you put into your Slavery Timeline. I was a little surprised that there was no mention that the international slave trade was prohibited from 1808, though internal slave-trading continued.
> 
> One of the most interesting things about John Brown was that he lived and farmed in several black communities in Kansas and Nebraska while most abolitionists talked a good game, but wouldn't be caught dead socializing or farming with blacks.


Yes, pro-abolitionists often did believe that whites were superior. Slaves who gained their freedom by whatever means and settled in the north usually wasn't greeted with open arms, unfortunately.
With that in mind, I wonder why more slaves didn't head south to Mexico? I could be wrong, but I believe Latinos have always been less concerned about race--full assimilation into Mexican society would probably have been a given.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's more of CheekyBlighter waxing poetic:
> 
> *CheekyBlighter wrote:*
> 
> ...


One thing you can't seem to get is that *nobody here cares,* KPG. *NOBODY!* quit your incessant whining.
Run off and read your bible or play with your imaginary grandkids Cheeky tells it like it is!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I have really appreciated the work you put into your Slavery Timeline. I was a little surprised that there was no mention that the international slave trade was prohibited from 1808, though internal slave-trading continued.
> 
> One of the most interesting things about John Brown was that he lived and farmed in several black communities in Kansas and Nebraska while most abolitionists talked a good game, but wouldn't be caught dead socializing or farming with blacks.


Hi MIB - I got so caught up in doing a timeline I kept it to what was going on in America. I kept going off on tangents myself reading and I am still not done it was a lot more complicated than I had imagined and the more I dug the more I came up with. I was aware of all the other countries that were involved in the slave trade and didn't comprehend the scope of it worldwide and as you discovered one could go on for months trying to cover it all. If there is anything you would like to add please do. I would like to get more into the personalities and if you would like to make that a project to share I would love it. I really would like to know more about the abolitionists and the underground railroad too if that interests you. Those people were so incredibly brave. I am always willing to learn and let someone do the scouting and gathering. Maybe we could coordinate something and you pick some and research them and give me some to look up.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

image


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> image


Yes, so leave. Your negative waves are resounding and at this point very boring.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> One thing you can't seem to get is that *nobody here cares,* KBG. *NOBODY!* quit your incessant whining.
> Run off and read your bible. Cheeky tells it like it is!


RU must stand for RU kidding me. How many times has that been dragged out. I have already confessed all my sins and been forgiven RU. You must be so embarrassed dragging that out here once again. You really should depart now unless you have come over to the Liberal left. I'm sorry you took on this fools errand. KPG uses everyone she knows and I guess she did it to you too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, pro-abolitionists often did believe that whites were superior. Slaves who gained their freedom by whatever means and settled in the north usually wasn't greeted with open arms, unfortunately.
> With that in mind, I wonder why more slaves didn't head south to Mexico? I could be wrong, but I believe Latinos have always been less concerned about race--full assimilation into Mexican society would probably have been a given.


I don't think they stopped at Mexico, Susan. If you look at Brazil, the population looks to be both black and latino.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> RU must stand for RU kidding me. How many times has that been dragged out. I have already confessed all my sins and been forgiven RU. You must be so embarrassed dragging that out here once again. You really should depart now unless you have come over to the Liberal left. I'm sorry you took on this fools errand. KPG uses everyone she knows and I guess she did it to you too.


That was the serpent, Cheeky. RU isn't quite that evil. In fact I wonder what KPG has to gain by dragging up old posts and reposting them. She is a very sick person with way too much time on her hands. If she is looking for sympathy,she certainly won't find any in here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If POV Liberal is too negative for you, why are you here? Oh yes, can't stay away. Do you expect us to be flattered?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, so leave. Your negative waves are resounding and at this point very boring.


Somebody has bought in to her own hype Patty and is looking pretty silly. I cant's stand Joel Osteen another televangelist.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> quit your incessant whining.


Oh, you misunderstood AGAIN. Those aren't my words, they're Cheeky's. Here, let me try that again:

Here's more of CheekyBlighter waxing poetic:

Cheeky wrote:* "I owe none of them any apologies so I will not be making any."*

CheekyBlighter wrote:

"I guess Momee must have a lot of bile in her gut and she so ladylike just vomited all over the thread. The right has no manners at all. "

"Just proved again stupid is as stupid does. What a waste of space."

"Both of you are dumb as stumps just like the rest of the right wing zealots."

"I won't post a photo of myself as you would be so jealous of my beauty."

"Obviously, she is like the rest of the righties, a big mouth and a loud voice and nothing of substance. Oh my, they are zombies!"

"Ignore the big bag 'o foul smelling rot. It has no idea what she/he/it is talking about and enjoys parading around out here like it has a brain."

"Shut your vile nasty mouth Jane and go climb back under the rock you call home and take your stupid snakes with you and you can go straight to the devil where you belong."

"No you and your friends on D&P are the lowest forms of humanity anywhere."
===============================
Here is one of my all-time personal favorites by CheekyBlighter:

"If you want to be treated well then start by treating others well."


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, pro-abolitionists often did believe that whites were superior. Slaves who gained their freedom by whatever means and settled in the north usually wasn't greeted with open arms, unfortunately.
> With that in mind, I wonder why more slaves didn't head south to Mexico? I could be wrong, but I believe Latinos have always been less concerned about race--full assimilation into Mexican society would probably have been a given.


Good question,Susan. Don't you feel like the more you dig the more you have to dig. One thing leads to another and another and before you know it is 3:00am and you wonder why you are feeling so sleepy. This stuff is fascinating. I will be a lifetime learner that I know. MIB was coming up with more good stuff too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, you misunderstood AGAIN. Those aren't my words, they're Cheeky's.


No I did not misunderstand. I know who's words they are.
*Nobody cares.* And you reposting them just makes you look very, very small. Do you think that by reposting old posts that all of Cheeky's friends will walk away? Sorry, KPG, but that isn't going to happen.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't think they stopped at Mexico, Susan. If you look at Brazil, the population looks to be both black and latino.


That's true, but I believe most of blacks were brought to Brazil as slaves then freed when slavery was abolished.
The whole issue of slavery in the Americas is so complicated that I don't want to add to its complexity, but it would be interesting to track down all the groups in the 19th century who found refuge in Mexico and see how they fared. It was really a mixed bag--African-American slaves, Mormons, even some ill-advised Southerners who thought they could hang onto their slaves by relocating.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Does anyone have a good movie we could watch? The entertainment leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe I will pop some popcorn and get out some beverages. Too bad I don't drink.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, but I believe most of blacks were brought to Brazil as slaves then free when slavery was abolished.
> The whole issue of slavery in the Americas is so complicated that I don't want to add to its complexity, but it would be interesting to track down all the groups in the 19th century who found refuge in Mexico and see how they fared. It was really a mixed bag--African-American slaves, Mormons, even some ill-advised Southerners who thought they could hang onto their slaves by relocating.


It's addicting isn't it, Susan? I have to stop reading a watch some mindless sitcom to unwind because my brain is in overdrive just thinking about all this.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Does anyone have a good movie we could watch? The entertainment leaves a lot to be desired. Maybe I will pop some popcorn and get out some beverages. Too bad I don't drink.


I am watching the Tudors on Netflix. Great show about Henry VIII. But today's discussions are inspiring me to watch 'The Help".
I love that movie!
Cheeky,can you emailme some dates for Wicked? I would love to go.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's addicting isn't it, Susan? I have to stop reading a watch some mindless sitcom to unwind because my brain is in overdrive just thinking about all this.


Like munching peanuts--once you start you can't stop!

I do want to express my gratitude to you, Cheeky, for getting this thread going. It's a fascinating subject, all the more so as the comments, posts, and reflections continue to pour in. Three cheers! You and the other ladies have done a magnificent job.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's addicting isn't it, Susan? I have to stop reading a watch some mindless sitcom to unwind because my brain is in overdrive just thinking about all this.


I hear you there. There is so much that I thought I knew, but lo and behold I found out how much more there is to be learned.
The underground railroad and Harriet Tubman have always intrigued me.
Susan would you mind if I help with the Mexico/ South American slave iigration?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hear you there. There is so much that I thought I knew, but lo and behold I found out how much more there is to be learned.
> The underground railroad and Harriet Tubman have always intrigued me.
> Susan would you mind if I help with the Mexico/ South American slave iigration?


Not at all! I'd be honored!

Harriet Tubman always fascinated me too--her story was the first slave narrative that I read as a child, and now I understand even more what a gutsy woman she really was. The fact that she was willing to work toward the cause of assisting runaway slaves despite unpredictable "sleepy spells" (caused by a childhood head injury) really astounds me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Like munching peanuts--once you start you can't stop!
> 
> I do want to express my gratitude to you, Cheeky, for getting this thread going. It's a fascinating subject, all the more so as the comments, posts, and reflections continue to pour in. Three cheers! You and the other ladies have done a magnificent job.


So have you, Susan!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Well, thanks all for a terrific day. Heading off to bed now--bazinga!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sure! I'd be honored!
> 
> Harriet Tubman always fascinated me too--her story was the first slave narrative that I read as a child, and now I understand even more what a gutsy woman she really was. The fact that she was willing to work toward the cause of assisting runaway slaves despite unpredictable "sleepy spells" (caused by a childhood head injury) really astounds me.


Did anyone read "Black like me" in high school?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BAZINGA!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Somebody has bought in to her own hype Patty and is looking pretty silly. I cant's stand Joel Osteen another televangelist.


Too bad she can't be HEALED!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm leaving you with a song that fits our topics. It is performed by Sam Cook.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi MIB - I got so caught up in doing a timeline I kept it to what was going on in America. I kept going off on tangents myself reading and I am still not done it was a lot more complicated than I had imagined and the more I dug the more I came up with. I was aware of all the other countries that were involved in the slave trade and didn't comprehend the scope of it worldwide and as you discovered one could go on for months trying to cover it all. If there is anything you would like to add please do. I would like to get more into the personalities and if you would like to make that a project to share I would love it. I really would like to know more about the abolitionists and the underground railroad too if that interests you. Those people were so incredibly brave. I am always willing to learn and let someone do the scouting and gathering. Maybe we could coordinate something and you pick some and research them and give me some to look up.


Sounds like a good idea, and I'll bring it up with you when I am home from my vacation. I have tons of books, many in storage as I am reading subjects other than the Civil Rights Movement and American abolitionism.. Off the top of my head, I can recommend:

Beyond the River: The Untold Story of theHeroes ofthe Underground Railroad" by Anne Hagedorn

Reconstruction: American's Unfinished Revolution by Eric Foner

Nothing But Freedom by Eric Foner

Myne Owne Ground: Race and Freedom on Virginia's Eastern Shore 1640-1676 by T. H. Breen and Stephen Innes

Black Church Beginnings: The Long-Hidden Realities of the First Years by Henry h. Mitchell

I'll have to reread some of the above as it's been a while since I read them. I just have to repeat what I've said a few times already. You've done some great work with your Slavery Timeline. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That was the serpent, Cheeky. RU isn't quite that evil. In fact I wonder what KPG has to gain by dragging up old posts and reposting them. She is a very sick person with way too much time on her hands. If she is looking for sympathy,she certainly won't find any in here.


So she was pretending to be RU and it was the other one?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sounds like a good idea, and I'll bring it up with you when I am home from my vacation. I have tons of books, many in storage as I am reading subjects other than the Civil Rights Movement and American abolitionism.. Off the top of my head, I can recommend:
> 
> Beyond the River: The Untold Story of theHeroes ofthe Underground Railroad" by Anne Hagedorn
> 
> ...


Thanks MIB. Sounds good to me. Have fun where ever you are.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm leaving you with a song that fits our topics. It is performed by Sam Cook.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm calling it a night very shortly. It's been a long, busy day


Cheeky Blighter said:


> So who is still out here, MIB, Andrea and me? Are you two staying on longer or checking out too? i am going to listen to Sam Cook and call it a night if you are leaving also?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm calling it a night very shortly. It's been a long, busy day


I'm turning in soon as well.
Thanks for the reading recommendations. I need more time, fewer chores, and better reading speed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Patty thanks for that beautiful song. Such a voice, gone too soon.

Bazinga!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

I have just spent a couple of days reading and re-reading this entire thread. I want to thank Cheeeky Blighter for starting it and for my other liberal KP friends for their participation! It is wonderful to see that there are SO many other KP'ers with the same core beliefs that we have and that we are able to converse about it.
The thought and effort that was put forth is inspirational, Cheeky! Keep up the good work!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I woke up to about 13 pages of enticing information, I have only managed to get through a few, such great insight. 
I did want to make sure that we don't forget this one. It was sooooo nasty. 



The Long, Colorful History of the Mann Act

by Eric Weiner

March 11, 2008 2:00 PM


All Things Considered
Transcript



In 1959, musician Chuck Berry was convicted under the Mann Act. He ended up serving 20 months in prison on a variety of charges.
Alain Jocard/AFP/Getty Images

Federal prosecutors might charge New York's Democratic governor, Eliot Spitzer, under a relatively obscure  and controversial  1910 law that was originally intended to combat forced prostitution and "debauchery." Its official name is the White Slave Traffic Act, but it's better known as the Mann Act, named after its author, Rep. James R. Mann (R-IL). 

In recent years, the Mann Act has been used selectively. But it has not faded into irrelevance. Last week, four people suspected of running the Emperor's Club  the prostitution service that Spitzer allegedly frequented  were charged with violating the Mann Act, among other crimes including money laundering. 

Enacted during a time of great change and "moral panic," the Mann Act was originally designed to combat forced prostitution. The law, however, has been applied broadly over the years and, critics say, used as a tool of political persecution and even blackmail. In the past century, thousands of people have been prosecuted under the Mann Act, including celebrities such as Charlie Chaplin, Frank Lloyd Wright, Chuck Berry and Jack Johnson. 

Allegations of Racism

Johnson, the first African-American heavyweight boxing champion, was among the first to be charged under the act. In 1913, he was accused of ostensibly transporting a prostitute from Pittsburgh to Chicago. Johnson was convicted and given the maximum sentence: one year and one day. Critics, however, believe that Johnson's case was racially motivated  the "prostitute" was his white girlfriend.

In 1944, Charlie Chaplin was prosecuted under the Mann Act in a case stemming from a paternity suit involving the actress Joan Barry. Some believe the case was motivated by Chaplin's left-of-center political views. He was ultimately acquitted, but his image in the U.S. never fully recovered.

In 1959, singer Chuck Berry was convicted under the Mann Act of transporting across state lines an underage Apache girl who was arrested on a prostitution charge weeks later. He ended up serving 20 months in prison on a variety of charges. 

A Product of Its Time

The Mann Act, perhaps more than most laws, was clearly a product of its time. At the turn of the last century, the Industrial Revolution had taken hold and the old order of rural, largely male-dominated America began to fade. New technologies, such as the typewriter, allowed many women to support themselves financially for the first time, and many flocked to the cities. The modern notion of dating was born.

With these changes came concerns about the country's moral underpinnings. By 1907, a full-fledged moral panic set in. There were rumors, taken as truth, that women were being forced into prostitution and shuttled around the country by vast networks controlled by immigrants, who were arriving in the U.S. by the millions. The plague of "white slavery" was on everyone's minds. Muckraking journalists fueled the hysteria with sensationalized stories of innocent girls kidnapped off the streets by foreigners, drugged, smuggled across the country and forced to work in brothels. 

It was into this charged environment that the Mann Act was born. Signed into law by President Taft in 1910, the Act made it a crime to transport women across state lines "for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery, or for any other immoral purpose." It was that last clause "for any other immoral purpose"  that would prove the most problematic and give rise to concerns that the law enabled the government to legislate morality.

Amending the Mann Act

Over the years, the Supreme Court has repeatedly held that prosecution under the Mann Act was constitutional. The act has never been repealed, but it has been substantially amended in recent years. In 1978, Congress updated the definition of "transportation" in the act and added protection for minors of either sex against sexual exploitation. 

A 1986 amendment further protected minors and replaced "debauchery" and "any other immoral purpose" with "any sexual activity for which any person can be charged with a criminal offense." That allowed the government to get out of the business of "legislating morality" while retaining the essence of the Mann Act as a weapon in the fight against human trafficking.


Credit given to National Public Radio 
I am sure that there are more comprehensive issues on the subject. 
My first exposure to this was through a movie depicting Jack Johnson's ruination due to the Mann Act and his continuing love for the woman involved. 

Here's hoping that this information is not redundant.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I read Black Like Me for "pleasure". 
To Kill a Mockingbird remains my all time favorite book.

It just occurred to me that a "black like me" experience might just be the best sentence for those found guilty of a hate crime involving African American victims; it might work well for some cops, too. The most enthusiastic users of "stop and frisk" and Michael Bloomberg might benefit.



BrattyPatty said:


> Did anyone read "Black like me" in high school?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Just another thought. How many of you know about 'War Plan Red'. It is an official document housed in the American archives. It is not fiction but fact. I will leave everyone to do their own research before they comment. I know a lot of readers will not believe it is a historical document.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I have no interest in your or anyone else's sins. I have never posted anything about sins or religion nor have I ever represented my spirituality here if I have any. And that being said I respect all religions and spiritual people.

I am far too intelligent to ever "come over to the Liberal left". I strongly believe in the individual not government to solve problems.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> RU must stand for RU kidding me. How many times has that been dragged out. I have already confessed all my sins and been forgiven RU. You must be so embarrassed dragging that out here once again. You really should depart now unless you have come over to the Liberal left. I'm sorry you took on this fools errand. KPG uses everyone she knows and I guess she did it to you too.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Didn't mean the Biblical Eve, but rather the mitochondrial one--"refers to the matrilineal most recent common ancestor (MRCA) of all currently living anatomically modern humans. In other words, she was the most recent woman from whom all living humans today descend, on their mothers side, and through the mothers of those mothers, and so on, back until all lines converge on one person. " The theory is that she lived 140,00 to 200,000 years ago, most likely in East Africa.


Oh, that's interesting and if in East Africa, most likely she was dark skinned.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Just another thought. How many of you know about 'War Plan Red'. It is an official document housed in the American archives. It is not fiction but fact. I will leave everyone to do their own research before they comment. I know a lot of readers will not believe it is a historical document.


I'd never heard of this and looked it up--yes, you are correct: truth is often stranger than fiction. The military obviously had way too much time on its hands--Operation Red-Orange is particularly ludicrous. How did the men responsible find their way to the bathroom each morning? Pretty amazing feat with IQs of approximately 1.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did anyone read "Black like me" in high school?


Yes, in fact it was a required reading in one English class.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No such thing as an IQ of 1. Where do you get your info?? Talk about ludicrous, wow. Now that is ludicrous!


susanmos2000 said:


> I'd never heard of this and looked it up--yes, you are correct: truth is often stranger than fiction. The military obviously had way too much time on its hands--Operation Red-Orange is particularly ludicrous. How did the men responsible find their way to the bathroom each morning? Pretty amazing feat with IQs of approximately 1.


 :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh, that's interesting and if in East Africa, most likely she was dark skinned.


Without question. It's interesting to note that primitive man left African in three waves that were spaced ten of thousands of years apart. The Neanderthals (wave 1 or 2--I forget which) were believed to have had notably lighter skin than their fellows but eventually came to a genetic dead end. There's a Y-chromosome Adam as well, who's believed to have lived just 60,000 years ago.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

What does the Y chromosome have to do with this? It certainly didn't come to a "genetic dead end" or you wouldn't be here.

Maybe ask Huck about it she is an expert on mind as an organ of the body. Perhaps you are sharing her biology textbook.



susanmos2000 said:


> Without question. It's interesting to note that primitive man left African in three waves that were spaced ten of thousands of years apart. The Neanderthals (wave 1 or 2--I forget which) were believed to have had notably lighter skin than their fellows but eventually came to a genetic dead end. There's a Y-chromosome Adam as well, who's believed to have lived just 60,000 years ago.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Yes, in fact it was a required reading in one English class.


I believe I've heard of that...wasn't that from the 60s, when a Caucasian man deliberately took some sort of drug that made his skin darker? He then traveled throughout the South and recorded his experiences--if I remember right, they weren't pretty.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> What does the Y chromosome have to do with this? It certainly didn't come to a "genetic dead end" or you wouldn't be here.
> Maybe ask Huck about it she is an expert on mind as an organ of the body. Perhaps you are sharing her biology textbook.


There are now some scientists who believe Neaderthals and Cro-Magnons lived siede by side and even inter-married. X or Y chromosome. Sorry, I don't have a reference to supprt this but I bet Google would lead to further information.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky, I hope you don't get tired of all the thanks for a job needed and well-done. You have inspired many intelligent, generous people to add their experience to this discussion. I can't help hoping that this will prove too highbrow for those intent on disruption. (Ever the optimist.)

Thanks again, Cheeky.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A bit of commentary for those unfamiliar with the cast of characters:

We have identified some tricks. One is for especially disruptive characters to register under various names to make it seem that more people agree with them. They add only rantings and no discussion to the topic. They know everything and anyone who disagrees is wrong and in need of saving.

Comments always welcome. Typos don't count. Soon.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> So she was pretending to be RU and it was the other one?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to try to remember to let everyone know when I go to bed with a bazinga so we'll know when I check out. It's morning now.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to try to remember to let everyone know when I go to bed with a "bazinga" so we'll know when I check out. It's morning now.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There are now some scientists who believe Neaderthals and Cro-Magnons lived siede by side and even inter-married. X or Y chromosome. Sorry, I don't have a reference to supprt this but I bet Google would lead to further information.


The issue of whether Neanderthals were of the same species as modern man certainly was a hot topic in the 80s, when I was in high school. My biology teacher certainly was on the affirmative side--I recall him stating flatly that if you shaved a Neanderthal, dressed him in a business suit, and put him on a subway platform he'd blend right in!
Weighing the evidence now, in the 21st century, it does appear that the majority of researchers feel that Neanderthals could have mated with modern man and produced fertile children--but the verdict is still out on whether in fact they actually did so. Some scientists say yes, some no. Obviously there's much more research to be done.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> What does the Y chromosome have to do with this? It certainly didn't come to a "genetic dead end" or you wouldn't be here.
> 
> Maybe ask Huck about it she is an expert on mind as an organ of the body. Perhaps you are sharing her biology textbook.


RUKnitting
You may want to read more.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

This is a really long post, but it is an interesting historic note on the March on Washington.

AMY GOODMAN: Today is the eve of the 50th anniversary of the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, which brought hundreds of thousands to the nations capital. Its considered one of the most significant civil rights gatherings in history. Events marking the occasion are scheduled throughout the country Wednesday, including a speech by President Obama at the Lincoln Memorial, where Dr. King gave his now-famous "I Have a Dream" speech.

King was joined by the future congressman, John Lewis; union leader A. Philip Randolph; march organizer, Bayard Rustin; Roy Wilkins of the NAACP; and others on the stage. But where were the female speakers at the March on Washington? Included on the program to sing on August 28, 1963, were Mahalia Jackson and Marian Anderson, but the only woman scheduled to actually speak at the rally was Myrlie Evers, widow of assassinated NAACP Field Secretary Medgar Evers. When she couldnt make it, organizers reportedly asked Daisy Bates to speak in her place.

Bates was the former president of the Arkansas chapter of the NAACP and also a longtime board member of the national NAACP. In 1957, she helped to enforce the Supreme Courts school desegregation rulings by working with a group of teenagers later known as the Little Rock Nine. She helped recruit the nine black teenagers and escorted them through irate mobs of white adults and into their first classes at Little Rock Central High School, a previously all-white institution. As a result, Bates and her husband Lucious lost their business. She was jailed, threatened, and the Klu Klux Klan burned an eight-foot cross on her lawn. This is her entire speech on August 28, 1963, 50 years ago Wednesday.

DAISY BATES: Mr. Randolph, friends, the women of this country, Mr. Randolph, pledge to you, to Martin Luther King, Roy Wilkins and all of you fighting for civil liberties, that we will join hands with you as women of this country. Rosa Gragg, vice president; Dorothy Height, the National Council of ***** Women; the Delta Sigma Theta Sorority; the Methodist Church womenall the womenpledge that we will join hands with you. We will kneel-in, we will sit-in, until we can eat in any corner in the United States. We will walk until we are free, until we can walk to any school and take our children to any school in the United States. And we will sit-in, and we will kneel-in, and we will lie-in, if necessary, until every ***** in America can vote. This we pledge you, the women of America.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Daisy Bates of the NAACP speaking at the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. She spoke for just over a minute.

While many women played a key role in organizing the march and the civil rights struggle, in general, they went largely unrepresented at the march. At first there were no women included in the days lineup of speakers. Then Bates was added as part of a tribute to ***** women fighters for freedom. She is listed on the days official program, along with Diane Nash, Mrs. Medgar Evers and Mrs. Herbert Lee, both wives of slain civil rights organizers, as well as Rosa Parks and Gloria Richardson.

Richardson was actually handed the microphone and managed to say hello to the crowd before it was snatched away from her. She was not allowed to finish her speech. Now 91 years old, Gloria Richardson was then co-founder of the Cambridge Nonviolent Action Committee in Maryland, which was in the midst of a campaign to desegregate public institutions like schools and hospitals. She went on to be friends with Malcolm X and is the subject of a pending biography by Joseph R. Fitzgerald called The Struggle is Eternal: Gloria Richardson and Black Liberation. Well, Gloria Richardson today joins us on Democracy Now!

Welcome to Democracy Now!

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Thank you very much.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you take us to that day, to August 28th, 1963, how you were chosen to speak, even if in the end you only got to say hello?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Well, we were in Cambridge, Maryland, as a result of the Baltimore Route 40 uproar the year before, when students came from the South and CORE to desegregate the restaurants on Route 40. They came down on the Eastern Shore of Maryland, and thats where Im from. Theres aChesapeake Bay divides us, and were over here, and its probably aboutwas then about like Mississippi. But in the meantime, my cousin and uncle were doing the bail bond as they stopped off at towns chasing the governor of the state down to Crisfield, because he would not give on the Route 40 stuff. On their way back to go back to Baltimore, my cousin told them, "Well, this is a totally segregated town. I mean, why dont you all stop off there?" And they dropped off two field secretaries from the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. From there, although we lived in a segregated bubble, in a segregated ward, we had our own city council person and had been there for 40 or 50 years, and who happened to be my grandfather, but totally segregatedthe schools, the hospital, the maternity wards. One bed for black women, and if thatif they needed that, then there were no beds. And it was kind of calm.

But when the CORE and the SNCC came in and had a rally, just hundreds of people out of that community went to the rally and, from there, started the uproar that ended with the National Guard coming in for 18 months. Also, thatinitially, I had not been involved. I was just watching. It was my daughter and her friends that were doing the demonstrating. But eventually, the so-called black leadership and white leadership got together and said, "Well, we cant make any decisions about"  it was public accommodations then  "about this until theres peace." Well, one week passed, two, three, four months, and the young people werestarted getting very kind of depressed. And the parents who backed them went to SNCC and asked if we could haveform a group there, because we were adults. And so, we were the first and I think only adult group that SNCC had. And we began organizing, and they came back, and then the whole town was involved.

I think because we, on Julyin July, before the march, had signed an agreement, written agreement, with Robert Kennedy and the Department of Justice in terms of five demands we haddesegregate the hospital, course desegregate the schools and the buses, provide new housing, and one or two other things, but that had happened, come out of a survey we did. Swarthmore kids took that back their school, and the professors did the correlations. Public accommodations was the last thing on that list. Everything else, beginning from the top, was more important to them.

AMY GOODMAN: And so, how did you go from that to the March on Washington?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: So, because of the National Guard and all the publicity, I had to say in the end that ABC, NBC, those people were stationed around that town, and it was so muchI mean, it was everythinggunfire, you know, Molotov cocktails. After the demonstrations, because the white folks in the town wanted to be sure all of this was stopped, and I think the leadership in the town, the aristocratic leadership, paid people to come in and create a disturbance. So, and Cambridge was at thein the Washington-[inaudible] area, was almost nightly on the news. So I guess once Anna Arnold Hedgeman insisted on women being in there, that had to be, you know, one of the people. And I understand there was a whole argument whether I was SNCC or NAACP. We had long given up NAACP in that town forbecause they were ineffective. So, thats how.

Then I was a coordinator for the Eastern Shore to get the buses and people to go to the march. And about two weeks before the march, they called and asked, and I would have two minutes to speak, and "Please, dress up. Dont wear"  jeans now, but dungarees. So, I went out and found a denim skirt. So, there may have been multiple things in terms of them taking the mic away, because, one, we werent the MLK model, as we developed, and we were not doing once-a-year speeches. It was a daily kind of thing for almost a year and a half.

AMY GOODMAN: We were just showing a picture of you, a famous picture of you pushing theright next to the bayonet of the National

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, yes, they were trying tohe was going to stab me, so I had to push it. But anyhow, and they came because we werent supposed to be demonstrating out there to demonstrate, and we had been at a little shoeshine shop with General Gelston, with him trying to stoptell us no, and were trying to say, "Yes, were going to do it," when a whole lot ofwe thought they were bullets. I dont know what he thought. He may have known what it was, but it happened to be tear gas. But when weI rushed out, and all the people were in the street. And then this guy started coming toward me. I thought hes got to be crazy. And I dont even know why I pushed the gun, but I know I was furious at that time.

AMY GOODMAN: But so, back to August 28th. Youre asked to speak. You all go on buses to Washington.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, I went to thewe had hotel accommodations, and they came and got me to take me to the march. I was late, but that wasnt because of me. They had toand took me to the tent. When I got to the tent, the women were all there. They got up after a while and said they were going to the ladies room and would be back. So I sat and waited for them to come back. In the meantime, I was doing some interviews. But then, all of a sudden, Bayard Rustin popped up and said, "What are you doing sitting here in the tent?" And I said, "Im sitting here waiting," and explained to him that I was sitting here waiting for them. "Oh, no," he said. "Come, go with me." So I went. He took me through the crowd to the stage, and thats when

AMY GOODMAN: There you saw Lena Horne?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Lena Horne, and Josephine Baker was reallyI was really like

AMY GOODMAN: The great singer.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: "Oh, wow!" Yes. And they said to me, "Theyve taken your chair away." Well, it proved they had chairs for the womenI guess for everybody maybe that was named, with a banner across it. So, and asked me, "You should raise hell." I saidI thought, no, I dont have to do that. Were out in the streets, so I said to them, "No, I see a lawyer back there, and I have a problem, so Im going to go back and talk with him." And thats essentially what happened. I think with Lenaand I cant remember exactly how this happened, but she was taking Rosa Parks around to European satellite stations and saying, "This is the woman that started Montgomery. This is who did that." So, when I saw her doing that, I joined her.

AMY GOODMAN: But, I mean, this is amazing. Rosa Parks was there, but she was not asked to speak.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yeah, no.

AMY GOODMAN: Rosa Parks, who launched Dr. Martin Luther King

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Thats right.

AMY GOODMAN: in Montgomery.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: And thats why Lena was taking and saying, "This is the woman that..." So I joined that little effort and went with them to two or three places and then back on the stage. I dont think any of it really soaked into me until afterwards. And I must say, I probably wouldnt even have gone that far to participate. I only found out in the last two or three weeks on the Internet that they had a separate place forseparate street for the women to march from. Then when I look at the pictures, it is totally men, and most of whom had not been out in those streets.

AMY GOODMAN: So, your name is called to speak.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, they calledthey called the name, and I went up. People kept saying, "Go up anyhow." And Iso I went up. So, I said hello, and I really, by that time, was so annoyed, I was going to tell them, "You all just sit here until they pass that civil rights bill, even if it is a weak one." And I said, "Hello." And they tookso, I guess they were right, because

AMY GOODMAN: And they pulled the mic from your mouth.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, yeah, they pulled it, but had one of the marshals. Then they came afterI dont think I heard Daisy Bates speak, but they came and got me

AMY GOODMAN: With Lena Horne.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: and Lena Horne, and told us, "Oh, you all may get mobbed or create a mob, and so come on and go with me. Were going to put you in a taxi and send you back to the hotel." So we did that, and we heard just part of Martins speech on the radio in the taxi. But in retrospect, I think it was because she was determined to see that Rosa Parks was recognized, and I had worn the denim skirt and hadnt dressed up properly and was a woman, and a series of things.

AMY GOODMAN: Were going to break and then come back to this discussion. Our guest is Gloria Richardson. She was on the stage at the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom when she was co-founder of the Cambridge Nonviolent Action Committee in Maryland, and she was slated to speak, only got out the word "hello" before the mic was taken from her. When we come back, well continue the discussion of the civil rights movement at the time and also hear from Malcolm X, when he recognized Gloria Richardson in his speech, his "Message to the Grass Roots." Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: Thats "Hes Got the Whole World in His Hands" sung by Marian Anderson at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom. And interestingly, a little footnote to that, it turns out that the Justice Department had control of the microphone, and if there was a call for insurrection, they were going to cut the mic and play a recording of not Marian Anderson, but Mahalia Jackson singing "Hes Got the Whole World in His Hands." Sort of gives a new meaning to "Hes Got the Whole World in His Hands."

Well, this is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report, and our guest for the hour is Gloria Richardson, Gloria Richardson who was on the program to speak on August 28th, 1963. Only one woman addressed the crowd. It was just over a minute. It was Daisy Bates of the NAACP. When Gloria Richardson got the mic, it was taken from her. But she was recognized as a civil rights pioneer around the country. I want to go to Malcolm X speaking in November 1963. This was less than three months after the March on Washington. He delivered his famous "Message to the Grass Roots" at Northern ***** Grass Roots Leadership Conference in Detroit. During the speech, Malcolm mentions Gloria Richardson, our guest today, by name.

MALCOLM X: When Martin Luther King failed to desegregate Albany, Georgia, the civil rights struggle in America reached this low point. King became bankrupt almost as a leader, plus even financially, the Southern Christian Leadership Conference was in financial trouble. Plus, it was in trouble, period, with the people, when they failed to desegregate Albany, Georgia. Other ***** civil rights leaders, of so-called national stature, became fallen idols. As they became fallen idols, began to lose their prestige and influence, local ***** leaders began to stir up the masses. In Cambridge, Maryland, Gloria Richardson; in Danville, Virginia, and other parts of the country, local leaders began to stir up our people at the grassroots level. This was never done by these *******, whom you recognize, of national stature. They controlled you, but they never incited you or excited you. They controlled you. They contained you. They kept you on the plantation.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Malcolm X delivering his "Message to the Grass Roots" speech in November of 1963, less than three months after the March on Washington. In that same speech, he goes on to criticize the, quote, "Big Six," the six leading civil rights organizers at the time: Martin Luther King, James Farmer, John Lewis, A. Philip Randolph, Roy Wilkins and Whitney Young.

MALCOLM X: But the white man put the Big Six ahead of it, made them the march. They became the march. They took it over. And the first move they made after they took it over, they invited Walter Reuther, a white man. They invited a priest, a rabbi and an old white preacher. Yes, an old white preacher. The same white elements that put Kennedy in powerlabor, the Catholics, the Jews and liberal Protestantssame clique that put Kennedy in power joined the march on Washington.
Its just like when youve got some coffee thats too black, which means its too strong. What you do? You integrate it with cream; you make it weak. If you pour too much cream in, you wont even know you ever had coffee. It used to be hot, it becomes cool. It used to be strong, it becomes weak. It used to wake you up, now itll put you to sleep.
This is what they did with the March on Washington. They joined it. They didnt integrate it; they infiltrated it. They joined it, became a part of it, took it over. And as they took it over, it lost its militancy. They ceased to be angry. They ceased to be hot. They ceased to be uncompromising. Why, it even ceased to be a march. It became a picnic, a circus, nothing but a circus, with clowns and all. You had one right here in DetroitI saw it on televisionwith clowns leading it, white clowns and black clowns. I know you dont like what Im saying, but Im going to tell you anyway, 'cause I can prove what I'm saying. If you think Im telling you wrong, you bring me Martin Luther King and A. Philip Randolph and James Farmer and those other three, and see if theyll deny it over a microphone. No, it was a sellout.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Malcolm X about three months after the March on Washington, speaking in Detroit. You were there at this speech. In fact

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: In fact, Malcolm was at thein Washington at the time of the speech. He didnt go to the speech, but he went to Ossie Daviss room, and he said to him, "Im there if you need me."

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, but theyyou know, theyre rewriting history now. I just saw on the Internet that some people from SNCC think he was standing outside of the room the night before, waiting, trying to get them to get him to be able to speak, which was not true, because I hadI was outside of there. He was not, you know, there doing that, and certainly, with that kind of speech, would not have had been participating in that.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Gloria Richardson, talk about the differences. And you were at this speech that Malcolm X gave in Detroit.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes. Well, there had been a grassroots conference that Reverend Franklin, who was at that time Aretha Franklins father, had organized for SCLC, because they wanted to move to the North, which I suppose also feeds into the Malcolm part about they were losing their reputations and stuff in the South.

AMY GOODMAN: Meaning move the movement to the North.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Move the SCLCno, not the movement, the SCLC part of the movement to the North. And I was at the conference. I was bored. But somebody there told me, as I came out one of the workshops, that "Youre in the wrong place. You need to go over to Reverend Cleage"  and I had not heard of him before  "Reverend Cleages church." Andbut when they said, "But thatsand I think Malcolm is going to be there," so I thought, well, Ive never really heard him speak nor met him, so I said, "OK, fine." So the people I was staying with took me over there. A man from Cambridge that had gone through medical school had a clinic in Detroit, very middle-class. And he took me and sat while Malcolm spoke. I think, by the next morning, his whole head was turned around. And he wasI said, "Wait a minute, you know, you know you have a different position over here. You need to calm down." But he made that speech, and we talked some, and then we invited him to Cambridge.

AMY GOODMAN: You invited Malcolm X.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Malcolm X to Cambridge. But he had gone to Europe, and there was some confusion. And, actually, I think it was that Louis Farrakhan they sent. They sent a man from Washington, and we were having this big demonstration, and he was just horrible. I mean, we always thought of the Muslim people being strongtouch me, Ill fightand stuff. But the group there in Cambridge said, "No, you know, we dont have any part in this." And when he gave his speech, you could just see people in the audienceyou know, we were supposed to be having a demonstration aftergoing getting just blah, what. But, so he never really got there. Adam Clayton Powell did. But the very fact that he had mentioned Cambridge and that they knew that there was a connection there, that we could go into meetings and say, "Well, either deal with us, or you have Malcolm X come in town here," and they would get just hysterical. The police chief said, "Oh, no!" But thatam I answering your question? Because you said

AMY GOODMAN: Yeah. Let me go to break

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: and were going to come back and continue this discussion about the movement at the time

GLORIA RICHARDSON: OK, at the time.

AMY GOODMAN: and where it is today. Were talking to Gloria Richardson, on the stage at the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, co-founder of the Cambridge Nonviolent Action Committee in Maryland. She should have spoken at the march. She got a "hello" out before the microphone was taken. But she was on the program. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report . Were putting the women back into that march today, with Gloria Richardson, now 91 years old, living here in New York City. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: "How I Got Over," sung by Mahalia Jackson at the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom, Im Amy Goodman, host of Democracy Now!, and our guest is Gloria Richardson, Gloria Richardson who was on that stage. In fact, did you meet Marian Anderson and Mahalia Jackson? Did you hear

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Mahalia Jackson, because she wanted me to go with her to Baltimore. She was appearing somewhere the next night on stage. But I couldnt do that at that time.

AMY GOODMAN: It was Mahalia Jackson who got

GLORIA RICHARDSON: It was Mahalia Jackson. But with Marian Anderson, I had gone

AMY GOODMAN: The opera singer.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: when I was in school in Washington, when they were preventing her from singing, the DAR, and she hadand Eleanor Roosevelt got her to sing

AMY GOODMAN: This was Daughters of the American Revolution, were preventing her

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, from singing.

AMY GOODMAN: from singing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: I think she ended up on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial becausebecause of Eleanor Roosevelt.

AMY GOODMAN: Right.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: And so, I had been in school then, and I had gone out there when that happened. And soand also, my mother knew her, because she was friends with her husbands family.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to turnbefore we turn to Ella Baker, who is a person a lot of young people havent heard of

GLORIA RICHARDSON: I know.

AMY GOODMAN: but you knew well, I want to get to John Lewis, because John Lewis was forced to change his speech, the 13-term congressmember right now. He was at the time the chair of SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, only surviving speaker of the 1963 march, now congressmember from Georgia. This is what he said at the original march.

JOHN LEWIS: We come here today with a great sense of misgiving. It is true that we support the administrations civil rights bill. We support it with great reservation, however. Unless Title III is put in this bill, theres nothing to protect the young children and old women who must face police dogs and fire hoses in the South while they engage in peaceful demonstration.
In its present form, this bill will not protect the citizens of Danville, Virginia, who must live in constant fear of a police state. It will not protect the hundreds and thousands of people that have been arrested upon trumped charges. What about the three young men, SNCC field secretaries in Americus, Georgia, who face the death penalty for engaging in peaceful protest?
As it stands now, the voting section of this bill will not help the thousands of white people who want to vote. It will not help the citizens of Mississippi, of Alabama and Georgia who are qualified to vote but lack a sixth-grade education. One man, one vote is the African cry. It is ours, too. It must be ours.
AMY GOODMAN: That was John Lewis speaking at the Lincoln Memorial. He was pressured to change his speech. Gloria Richardson, you tried to help him out.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, when I got tofinally got up to the stage, there were eight or nine SNCC people there, and they told me what was going on and asked me if I would go back in there and help them fight to keep the speech as it was. And I said yes. And then I went intried to get inside the Lincoln Memorial, and the guards there stopped me and said I couldnt go in. So, once again, there was a barrier put up. But Forman released the entire speech to the press, and I think The Washington Post printed that the next day.

AMY GOODMAN: You know, back on Marian Anderson, just the particular facts of that story, she wanted to sing to an integrated audience at Constitutional Hall, Daughters of American Revolution didnt let her.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, yes, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: So Eleanor Roosevelt, with FDR, got her to sing this open-air concert, right?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Thats right, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: At the Lincoln Memorial. Seventy-five thousand people came.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Thats right.

AMY GOODMAN: Millions listened on the radio. She goes on to be the first black person, African American or black overall, who sang at the Metropolitan Opera.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes, yes, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: The great opera singer, Marian Anderson. But lets talk now about Ella Baker and the significance of Ella Baker. She played a key role in some of the most influential organizations of the time, including the NAACP, Martin Luther Kings Southern Christian Leadership Conference, or SCLC, Student Nonviolent CommitteeNonviolent Coordinating Committee. Here Ella Baker discusses how the formation of the SCLC came about.

ELLA BAKER: I think the basic why of SCLC has to do with what had taken place in the '54 decision and the unthought-of Montgomery Bus Boycott. But before you can evaluate the bus boycott, you have to understand how it came about. And it didn't come out of a vacuum. There were two people in Montgomery who had functioned with the NAACP over the years, and they were Mrs. Rosa Parks and EdE.D. Nixonnot Ed. ItsI dont know what his name was, but E.D. Nixon. But where did E.D. Nixon get his fire? He got his fire and his sense of social action from being a member of the Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters and the struggle that it had waged over the years. So, when the Montgomery Bus Boycott, lets call it, ended successfully, here you had a social phenomenon that had not taken place in the history of those of us who were around at that time, where hundreds of people, and even thousands of people, just ordinary people, had taken a position that put them in a very uncomfortableor at least made life less comfortable for them, when they decided to walk rather than to ride the bus.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Ella Baker. Tell us, Gloria Richardson, who Ella Baker was.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Ella Baker, although I think a lot of people here in the city do not know, Ella Baker was from New York City. But she had been through a variety of organizationsthe NAACP, SCLC. And then, when those six studentswas it six students? Six students, I think, in North Carolina sat in, and about two weeks later, college students, they had this huge conference of young people, and Mrs. Baker was there. And in my mind, she was the one that set them free, because SCLC wanted them to be a youth component of SCLC, and she said, "No, you all go and domake your own mistakes, and do your own fight." And thats what they did, as an independent group of young students. Most people todayand when I go aroundbecause we are older and whatnot, I think they dont make thedont translate back into when these were high school and maybe one year of college, grammar school students out in the streets fighting, you know, for their civil rights. Mrs. Baker freed them to do that. Thats also whyI dont understand why John, now, left and clings to SCLC, when she was trying to free that youth movement to go and do whatever they, you know, wanted to do. But she would come, and she would fly into Atlanta or fly wherever there was a crisis or they needed some advice, and she would come in at any time of the night, afteryou know, she wasnt based in Atlanta.

AMY GOODMAN: Where is the movement today? For example, were you invited to speak at the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, no! I just spoke to somebody the other day who had two invitations, but one they rescinded, and now he didnt know what he was supposed to do. That was in Washington. No. I dont thinkI think Malcolm could make the same speech. Im sure people would be horrified. I think the people that went are OK, and Ive just seen something in the last day where there was a disconnect between the speeches and the energy and wishes of the crowd coming behind them. And I cantI just dont understand, because they said that the police went and took away from a group of people the signs that said "the new Jim Crow." Thats ridiculous in 2013. And then people like to strut around the street and say they have a black president. And hes going to speak tomorrow. Its going to be interesting to see what he says.

AMY GOODMAN: What is your assessment of President Obama?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, I think hes a nice man, but nice men dont make good presidents. I wasnt particularly fond of John Kennedy. His brother, yes. He was hard-nosed. He knew what he had to do; he did it.

AMY GOODMAN: Robert Kennedy.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yes. But I dont thinkpart of its probably not his fault. He did nothe did not go to grammar school and high school here. He went to upscale, royal private schools in Hawaii and Indonesia, and then came to Columbia. And I dont think hes really gone through the kinds of things that small, little small black boys have to go through growing up into that kind of position.

AMY GOODMAN: How do you think that determines his presidency today?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Well, I dontI dont thinklike when he, on national TV, said, with his two children standing beside him, there was no need for affirmative action for them because they were smart. Affirmative action was never about people being smart. It was about people that were smart not being able to get into the system.

AMY GOODMAN: What about women? Fifty years ago, where were women in the movement when your mic was being snatched?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Well, it looks like the same place now. Myrlie Evers spoke, and then I saw her in another panel.

AMY GOODMAN: Right, Myrlie Evers spoke at the 50th anniversary march.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Yeah, and she spoke the other day. And then I saw her at ain another setting, where she was explaining she was very bitter about the first thing. Im not sure she wasbecause I think she has a foundation and stuff. Im not sure shes that pleased with this. But it was, I guess, a little better.

AMY GOODMAN: Her message, this 50th anniversary, was that people shouldshould embrace the term "stand your ground," not the laws, but take it back and say, "stand your ground," the idea that people should stand their ground.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: What?

AMY GOODMAN: Not the laws. Not the laws, the current set.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: I understand what you mean.

AMY GOODMAN: But shes saying people should take a stand today.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, but she didnt use "stand your ground."

AMY GOODMAN: No, she was saying that it should beright.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, oh, OK. Oh, no, but I dont think people understand. I think theyre waiting for somebody, some preacher, to rise up in the middle and save them. I dont think they understand that they can go out and make mistakes and do it themselves, that it has to be some special kind of person.

AMY GOODMAN: What is the message of the Cambridge movement that you came out of? I mean, you came out of eastern Maryland. Eastern Maryland is where Frederick Douglass was born.

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, yes, about five minutes from me, and Harriet Tubman, where now the hip-hop people have now put on a pornographic movie about her. And this guyI forgot his name, McBride or something, The New York Times is in there with this glowing two-page review of his book, talking about Frederick Douglass was a drunk, and John Brown was crazy, and isnt that funny? So, I think now theres some kind of concerted effort in the cultural environment to make fun of anything that historically would give people any kind of courage or nerve or desire to fight. I dont think its
accidental.

AMY GOODMAN: The Cambridge movement was controversial even 50 years ago, maybe, you were saying, part of why they took the mic from you. What was the message of the Cambridge movement? What was it that you were doing in Maryland?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: We werent going to stop until we got it, and if violence occurred, then we would have to accept that.

AMY GOODMAN: Until you got what?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Until we got our five demands, which we did. Theres aand amazingly, after all of that fight with blacks against whites and whites against blacks, today there is a black woman mayor. There is a black man thats head of the City Council and another black man thats head of the Dorchester County Council. And while I wouldnt say theres no racism in Cambridge, but they are now within that structure. And then, because we got rid of the restrictive housing, in order to get the new housing, then there were some people over the years that moved into what Im calling white neighborhoods, maybe 99 percent white. But two of those neighborhoods, that we couldnt even walk in before, elected black representatives to the City Council. So there has been, structurally, I think, some change. I think that was because the structural changes that were put in at that time.

AMY GOODMAN: And finally, your role as a woman in the movement?

GLORIA RICHARDSON: Oh, I didnt haveyes, because I thought about that earlierI did not have a problem with black men in Cambridge. It was five black men that came and asked me, once my cousin decided it was a conflict of interest to be co-chair and provide the bail, then they came and asked me to do it. And I think thats because not only my family, but most of their families had been in Dorchester County since maybe the late 1700s, whether they were poor or well-to-do or whatever. So it was that kind of history, I think, that made them embrace me.

.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

We must have had the same biology teacher. :mrgreen: It should be interesting to find out what research will reveal.


susanmos2000 said:


> The issue of whether Neanderthals were of the same species as modern man certainly was a hot topic in the 80s, when I was in high school. My biology teacher certainly was on the affirmative side--I recall him stating flatly that if you shaved a Neanderthal, dressed him in a business suit, and put him on a subway platform he'd blend right in!
> Weighing the evidence now, in the 21st century, it does appear that the majority of researchers feel that Neanderthals could have mated with modern man and produced fertile children--but the verdict is still out on whether in fact they actually did so. Some scientists say yes, some no. Obviously there's much more research to be done.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you jelun2. You have brought so much to the discussion.

Two comments: The perspective and history of the Mann Act is effective. History is not just a series of names and dates. Good history illustrates living in the times.

Secondly, NPR, in my opinion, deserves our full support for reporting issues in a balanced, factual manner. This article gives an excellent example.



jelun2 said:


> I woke up to about 13 pages of enticing information, I have only managed to get through a few, such great insight.
> I did want to make sure that we don't forget this one. It was sooooo nasty.
> 
> The Long, Colorful History of the Mann Act
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> We must have had the same biology teacher. :mrgreen: It should be interesting to find out what research will reveal.


Right on, Maid. We certainly live in exciting times--advances in genetic research have opened up a whole new world to us. So many questions can be answered now by studying our DNA--but for every one answered a hundred more pop up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not everything is written literally. Don't waste time. Read for meaning.



RUKnitting said:


> No such thing as an IQ of 1. Where do you get your info?? Talk about ludicrous, wow. Now that is ludicrous!
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It is the Neandrathal that came to a 'genetic dead-end' not the Y chromosome, as written in previous post.

Name calling tells more about you than the person you've identified.



RUKnitting said:


> What does the Y chromosome have to do with this? It certainly didn't come to a "genetic dead end" or you wouldn't be here.
> 
> Maybe ask Huck about it she is an expert on mind as an organ of the body. Perhaps you are sharing her biology textbook.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The issue of whether Neanderthals were of the same species as modern man certainly was a hot topic in the 80s, when I was in high school. My biology teacher certainly was on the affirmative side--I recall him stating flatly that if you shaved a Neanderthal, dressed him in a business suit, and put him on a subway platform he'd blend right in!
> Weighing the evidence now, in the 21st century, it does appear that the majority of researchers feel that Neanderthals could have mated with modern man and produced fertile children--but the verdict is still out on whether in fact they actually did so. Some scientists say yes, some no. Obviously there's much more research to be done.


ssanmos2000
I grew up close to where Neanderthal 1 was found in the mid 1800s. It is a pretty Valley. 
Visited there many times and am following the research.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for the very long post featuring the interview with Amy Goodman. Very informative, and proves some of the things that went on, unbeknownst to most people, to attempt to control the March .


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> A bit of commentary for those unfamiliar with the cast of characters:
> 
> We have identified some tricks. One is for especially disruptive characters to register under various names to make it seem that more people agree with them. They add only rantings and no discussion to the topic. They know everything and anyone who disagrees is wrong and in need of saving.
> 
> Comments always welcome. Typos don't count. Soon.


damemary
It looks like typos count only when done by anyone of us.
Particularly when I make some. I am not entitled to any since I am an Immigrant.
I keep shaking my head however at the writings of some of their buddies. Quite sad.
Have a pleasant weekend.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

medusa said:


> I have just spent a couple of days reading and re-reading this entire thread. I want to thank Cheeeky Blighter for starting it and for my other liberal KP friends for their participation! It is wonderful to see that there are SO many other KP'ers with the same core beliefs that we have and that we are able to converse about it.
> The thought and effort that was put forth is inspirational, Cheeky! Keep up the good work!


Thanks for your kind words medusa. We all hope you will be a regular visitor and contributer here. Have a lovely Labor Day Weekend.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> Cheeky, I hope you don't get tired of all the thanks for a job needed and well-done. You have inspired many intelligent, generous people to add their experience to this discussion. I can't help hoping that this will prove too highbrow for those intent on disruption. (Ever the optimist.)
> 
> Thanks again, Cheeky.


damemary
May I chime in please. I am learning a great deal and am thankful for it. 
Thank you Cheeky Blighter. 
Ingried


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

There is a book I found at St. Vinnies that I read it was an old copy. But think you may find interesting.

Incidents in the Life of a Slave girl By Harriet Jacobs

It is a first hand account of what this women went through to attain freedom and what her life was like. A true story and very moving.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Damemary isn't wonderful to be so popular. Makes me want to sing.


Cheeky,

It's too bad you are only singing the same old boring tune. You go on and on about the how righties can stay if they are respectful towards others, yet not a word or comment from you to the liberals that are showing no respect to those on the right. Demand the same standards from your friends as well. They are not innocent. If you don't step up then this thread will fall into the same downward spiral as the Progressive Cafe 1 & 2, The Progressive Women's Forum and the LOLL threads. (I know you did not start LOLL, but the same people are on all.) Not listening or accepting another persons differing opinion was the common denominator for the failure of these threads. Starting this new thread is equivalent to going to another restaurant with the same people and expecting the conversation to be different.

If you really want intelligent conversation then learn to listen to others POVs. Intelligent conversations thrive on a two way street. You don't have to agree, but listen. Reply honestly, not by attacking. Who knows, the outcome of the discussion could produce solutions to the problems communities face. I hope that is something you desire.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Peacegoddess, I read every word of the Gloria Richardson interview. (Long interview page 54 POV Liberal.)I found it riveting. She's 91 years of age and knows (and tells) it all. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for your kind words medusa. We all hope you will be a regular visitor and contributer here. Have a lovely Labor Day Weekend.


Cheeky Blighter
Not having studied History formally in this Country I am eager to read so many valuable postings.
I have many personal anecdotes re. race relations over the years.
I was truly shocked about the division of the Races when I came here. 
Abuse and mistreatment in many forms of black People was the order of the day.
I kept hearing "we are a Christian Nation". I thought there must be a different Christianity than the one I was taught.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is not a thread for personal criticism. You are lost. This is POV Liberal.



soloweygirl said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> It's too bad you are only singing the same old boring tune. You go on and on about the how righties can stay if they are respectful towards others, yet not a word or comment from you to the liberals that are showing no respect to those on the right. Demand the same standards from your friends as well. They are not innocent. If you don't step up then this thread will fall into the same downward spiral as the Progressive Cafe 1 & 2, The Progressive Women's Forum and the LOLL threads. (I know you did not start LOLL, but the same people are on all.) Not listening or accepting another persons differing opinion was the common denominator for the failure of these threads. Starting this new thread is equivalent to going to another restaurant with the same people and expecting the conversation to be different.
> 
> If you really want intelligent conversation then learn to listen to others POVs. Intelligent conversations thrive on a two way street. You don't have to agree, but listen. Reply honestly, not by attacking. Who knows, the outcome of the discussion could produce solutions to the problems communities face. I hope that is something you desire.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Peacegoddess, I read every word of the Gloria Richardson interview. (Long interview page 54 POV Liberal.)I found it riveting. She's 91 years of age and knows (and tells) it all. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.


I loved listening to Gloria and Amy talk. It is interesting that women continue to be "subcast" in events.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It is indeed a very interesting book. I also recommend reading Behind the Scenes in the Lincoln White House by Elizabeth Keckley, a slave of Mrs. Lincoln's. Frederick Douglas and WEB DuBoius have also written some excellent books. DuBoi's Souls of Black Folks is a good place to start.


theyarnlady said:


> There is a book I found at St. Vinnies that I read it was an old copy. But think you may find interesting.
> 
> Incidents in the Life of a Slave girl By Harriet Jacobs
> 
> It is a first hand account of what this women went through to attain freedom and what her life was like. A true story and very moving.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

For any and everyone who wants to read more about any subject and doesn't want to get their books from the library (if your local library even has what you'd like to read) I highly recommend using www.bookfinder.com. They list new and used books including the price of shipping, and it is often possible to get books for a very small price. I hate returning books to the library and use Bookfinder often. It's a very reliable website.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> For any and everyone who wants to read more about any subject and doesn't want to get their books from the library (if your local library even has what you'd like to read) I highly recommend using www.bookfinder.com. They list new and used books including the price of shipping, and it is often possible to get books for a very small price. I hate returning books to the library and use Bookfinder often. It's a very reliable website.


Thank you
http://www.bookfinder.com


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I read Black Like Me for "pleasure".
> To Kill a Mockingbird remains my all time favorite book.
> 
> It just occurred to me that a "black like me" experience might just be the best sentence for those found guilty of a hate crime involving African American victims; it might work well for some cops, too. The most enthusiastic users of "stop and frisk" and Michael Bloomberg might benefit.


jelun2 did you get a chance to look at the link aw9358 provided a few pages back where a third grade teacher did an experiment with her students in racism? It is a very good link and relates to your comment concerning a "black like me" experience. It took these 8 - 9 year old kids a few days to see racism has no basis in facts. It seems to be either taught or adopted by some in a need to make themselves feel better about themselves by seeing another group of people as inferior to them. Please take a look at it if you haven't already. It would be another good source to teach police and others especially those in a position of authority over others in our society how you really need to look at any situation you encounter with an open mind, as a unique event and based on it's own merits.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There have also been some very interesting studies done about how quickly and easily people can adopt the complete role of prisoners and guards, and torturers. Really scary stuff.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> jelun2 did you get a chance to look at the link aw9358 provided a few pages back where a third grade teacher did an experiment with her students in racism? It is a very good link and relates to your comment concerning a "black like me" experience. It took these 8 - 9 year old kids a few days to see racism has no basis in facts. It seems to be either taught or adopted by some in a need to make themselves feel better about themselves by seeing another group of people as inferior to them. Please take a look at it if you haven't already. It would be another good source to teach police and others especially those in a position of authority over others in our society how you really need to look at any situation you encounter with an open mind, as a unique event and based on it's own merits.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Not having studied History formally in this Country I am eager to read so many valuable postings.
> I have many personal anecdotes re. race relations over the years.
> I was truly shocked about the division of the Races when I came here.


Alas you aren't alone in your mystification, Ingried. From Frontline:

"The phenomenon known as "passing as white" is difficult to explain in other countries or to foreign students. Typical questions are: "Shouldn't Americans say that a person who is passing as white is white, or nearly all white, and has previously been passing as black?" or "To be consistent, shouldn't you say that someone who is one-eighth white is passing as black?" or "Why is there so much concern, since the so-called blacks who pass take so little ******* ancestry with them?"

It's interesting to speculate on how the latest advances in genetic technology would have affected the "one drop" laws--my guess is that they would have been knocked into a cocked hat. As we now know, 30% of self-proclaimed "whites" are in fact of mixed race--and that's if one goes only four generations back! Ultimately all of us trace our matriarchal lineage back to mitochondrial Eve, who hailed from East African and of course had dark skin.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Without question. It's interesting to note that primitive man left African in three waves that were spaced ten of thousands of years apart. The Neanderthals (wave 1 or 2--I forget which) were believed to have had notably lighter skin than their fellows but eventually came to a genetic dead end. There's a Y-chromosome Adam as well, who's believed to have lived just 60,000 years ago.


Susanmos, I think you and I could have an interesting conversation, you seem to think along the same lines as I do. There is an interesting book The seven Daughters of Eve, which discusses mitochondrial DNA, I have lent my copy and it has not been returned. I had not read on Y chromosome Adam. When they were studying the DNA of the Australian Aboriginal they found traces of Neanderthal DNA plus older DNA. they traced it to people living in central Siberia in the past. I cannot find any more i formation on this though. These people were believed to have left Africa before the Neanderthals.

Loved the silly answer stating there was no such thing as an IQ of 1. Talk about going over someone's head. Same person made a silly remark about the Y chromosome and biology text book. Tell her it is a paleontology discussion.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great tip.



MaidInBedlam said:


> For any and everyone who wants to read more about any subject and doesn't want to get their books from the library (if your local library even has what you'd like to read) I highly recommend using www.bookfinder.com. They list new and used books including the price of shipping, and it is often possible to get books for a very small price. I hate returning books to the library and use Bookfinder often. It's a very reliable website.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Living I a red state (Kansas), I have had to keep me " liberal" views to myself. I don't see my views as left versus right , but helping those achieve their potential . This means equal opportunities In education, health care, job training, meeting those basic needs that many of us take for granted. I have worked in health care for over 40 years. I still see mothers that don't have enough money for groceries, mentally ill who don't have access to basic services uninsured individuals dying from treatable illnesses. I could go on and on but then I'd start to sound boring. Race is an issue, yes, but poverty is one that crosses all racial lines.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> A bit of commentary for those unfamiliar with the cast of characters:
> 
> We have identified some tricks. One is for especially disruptive characters to register under various names to make it seem that more people agree with them. They add only rantings and no discussion to the topic. They know everything and anyone who disagrees is wrong and in need of saving.
> 
> Comments always welcome. Typos don't count. Soon.


How can that be done, I thought the KP database would not let duplicate members with the same email address. I am not up to speed with a lot of the latest computer workings, so please forgive me.

one thing though, I believe we can all hold different points of view. We disagree with the expressed comments, we do not shoot the messenger.

i am a newbie, but I read for a long time before I joined. i still read more than I post. Maybe I do not wish to be called a troll, or worse. But I have been reading your posts for some time, whereas other posters I skip or just skim. we may not agree on every topic, but that is fine. We are both entitled to have different point of view, that is what makes life interesting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Susanmos, I think you and I could have an interesting conversation, you seem to think along the same lines as I do.


Thanks, Eve...I too am very intrigued by the latest findings of the genetic researchers and would love to explore the subject with you in depth. All of this is new to me--in my high school and college years the techniques for classifying and studying human DNA were still in their infancy--the strides made in just twenty years are unbelievable!
This thread is a godsend for bringing like minded folks together, and once more I have to thank Cheeky and the others for all their hard work. So many interesting ideas to explore, so much information coming in from people curious about the world around them--whodathunk this was possible just a few days ago?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I relate. I live in Arizona....a red state in every way, but incredibly beautiful. (Good driving.) That's why I enjoy this thread so much. So glad to meet you.



miatalover66 said:


> Living I a red state (Kansas), I have had to keep me " liberal" views to myself. I don't see my views as left versus right , but helping those achieve their potential . This means equal opportunities In education, health care, job training, meeting those basic needs that many of us take for granted. I have worked in health care for over 40 years. I still see mothers that don't have enough money for groceries, mentally ill who don't have access to basic services uninsured individuals dying from treatable illnesses. I could go on and on but then I'd start to sound boring. Race is an issue, yes, but poverty is one that crosses all racial lines.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, I think it was you who asked for some lyrics of the protest songs of the Civil Rights Movement, so the following is all your fault. LOL. If you weren't the perpetrator, than this is somebody else's fault. LOL again. Since it's Sunday, i'll start with this:

Birmingham Sunday
by Richard Farina and Joan Baez

Come round by my side and I'll sing you a song
I'll sing it so softly, it'll do no one wrong
On Birmingham Sunday the blood ran like wine
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

That cold autumn morning no eyes saw the sun
And Addie Mae Collins, her number was one
At an old Baptist church there was no need to run
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

The clouds they were grey and the autumn wind blew
And Denise McNair brought the number to two
The falcon of death was a creature they knew
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

The church it was crowded, but no one could see
That Cynthia Wesley's dark number was three
Her prayers and her feelings would shame you and me
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

Young Carol Robertson entered the door
And the number her killers had given was four
She asked for a blessing but asked for no more
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

On Birmingham Sunday a noise shook the ground
And people all over the earth turned around
For no one recalled a more cowardly sound
And the choirs kept singing of freedom

The men in the forest they once asked of me
How many black berries grew in the Blue Sea
I asked them right back with a tear in my eye
How many dark ships in the forest?

The Sunday has come and the Sunday has gone
And I can't do much more than to sing you a song
I'll sing it so softly, it'll do no one wrong
And the choirs keep singing of freedom

And I gotta put this one in, too:

Aint Gonna Let Nobody Turn Me Around
by the Albany, Georgia Movement

Aint gonna let nobody turn me around
Aint gonna let nobody turn me around
Im gonna keep on awalkin, keep on atalkin
Marching down to freedoms land

For all the other verses, replace the word nobody with no police, no jail cell, no killins, no despair and the name of any well-known supporter of racism and segregation.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Interesting it goes back to one woman "Eve." But the time is closer to 6000 years. The area is modern day Iraq.


*???* The Eve mentioned in the article was found in Africa and the date was 200,000 years ago.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I relate. I live in Arizona....a red state in every way, but incredibly . That's why I enjoy this thread so much. So glad to meet you.


Wonderful to find like minded people, sometime I feel so isolated. Don't get me wrong, I love living here. I grew up here but lived back east for many years, came home to be near family. Can't let go of what I evolved into there.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

BFM I don't need to read anything re: middle school biology and in some school systems it's taught in elementary school.



Huckleberry said:


> RUKnitting
> You may want to read more.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Again I am a person who expects and respects accuracy in discussion.



damemary said:


> It is the Neandrathal that came to a 'genetic dead-end' not the Y chromosome, as written in previous post.
> 
> Name calling tells more about you than the person you've identified.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Eve! Thanks for the book tip... I'll be looking it up online today. If you go to the online newsletter, Science Daily, you can mine the archives for more info on MtDNA research and the various migrations. Such an interesting topic! In Thoroughbreds it was MtDNA that called into question pedigrees on horses in the earlier stud books... and that only goes back 300 or so years...faces were red. An unassuming ancestress who influenced a large number of later great runners had the unfortunate name of Old Bald Peg. Same with people... we are each individuals, but our very cellular furnaces came from one female ancestor.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Again I am a person who expects and respects accuracy in discussion.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


You are a person who is here only to spread your fatuous remarks and hostility. That's *all* that can be expected of you. You are not wanted here. Better scoot, KPG is calling you.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Birmingham Sunday
> by Richard Farina and Joan Baez


What a powerful song. I didn't know it. Thank you for posting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

After a short discussion last night about the African American slaves fleeing to Mexico, I came across this article.



"Man & Canoe," Corralero, Oaxaca, Mexico, 1987

African labor was vital to the Spanish colonists. As indigenous peoples were killed or died from European diseases, blacks assumed a disproportionate share of the burden of work, particularly in the early colonial period. African slaves labored in the silver mines of Zacatecas, Taxco, Guanajuato, and Pachuca in the northern and central regions; on the sugar plantations of the Valle de Orizaba and Morelos in the south; in the textile factories ("obrajes") of Puebla and Oaxaca on the west coast and in Mexico City; and in households everywhere. Others worked in skilled trade or on cattle ranches. Although black slaves were never more than two percent of the total population, their contributions to colonial Mexico were enormous, especially during acute labor shortages.

Wherever their numbers permitted, slaves created networks that allowed them to cope with their situation, give expression to their humanity, and maintain a sense of self. These networks flourished in Mexico City, the port city of Veracruz, the major mining centers, and the sugar plantations, allowing Africans to preserve some of their cultural heritage even as they forged new and dynamic relationships. Although males outnumbered females, many slaves found spouses from their own or other African ethnic groups. Other slaves married or had amorous liaisons with the indigenous peoples and to a lesser extent the Spaniards. In time, a population of mixed bloods emerged, gaining demographic ascendancy by the mid-eighteenth century. Known as "mulattos," "pardos," or "zambos," many of them were either born free or in time acquired their liberty.

As in the rest of the Americas, slavery in Mexico exacted a severe physical and psychological price from its victims. Abuse was a constant part of a slave's existence; resisting oppression often meant torture, mutilation, whipping, or being put in confinement. Death rates were high, especially for slaves in the silver mines and on the sugar plantations. Yet, for the most part, their spirits were never broken and many fled to establish settlements ("palenques") in remote areas of the country.

These fugitives were a constant thorn in the side of slave owners. The most renowned group of "maroons," as they were called, escaped to the mountains near Veracruz. Unable to defeat these intrepid Africans, the colonists finally recognized their freedom and allowed them to build and administer their own town. Today, their leader, Yanga, remains a symbol of black resistance in Mexico.

Other slaves rebelled or conspired to. The first conspiracy on record took place in 1537, and these assaults on the system grew more frequent as the black population increased.

Regardless of the form it took--escape or rebellion--resistance demonstrated an angry defiance of the status quo and the slaves' desire to reclaim their own lives. As such, black resistance occupies a special place in Mexico's revolutionary tradition, a tradition that is a source of pride for many Mexicans.

Beyond that, Africans in Mexico left their cultural and genetic imprint everywhere they lived. In states such as Veracruz, Guerrero, and Oaxaca, the descendants of Africa's children still bear the evidence of their ancestry. No longer do they see themselves as Mandinga, Wolof, Ibo, Bakongo, or members of other African ethnic groups; their self identity is Mexican, and they share much with other members of their nation-state.

Yet their cultural heritage has not entirely disappeared. Some African traditions survive in song, music, dance, and other ways. But much has changed since slavery ended, and it is difficult for a small minority to maintain its traditions in a constantly changing society.

As their ancestors did, the few remaining persons who are visibly of African descent continue to be productive members of society. But history has not been kind to the achievements of African peoples in Mexico. It is only within recent times that their lives have been studied and their contributions to Mexican society illuminated. Suffice it to say that contemporary black Mexicans can claim this proud legacy and draw strength from it, even as they become a shrinking part of their country's peoples.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Wonderful to find like minded people, sometime I feel so isolated. Don't get me wrong, I love living here. I grew up here but lived back east for many years, came home to be near family. Can't let go of what I evolved into there.


Check out your local NAACP, peace groups, League of women voters, occupy Kansas, etc for like minded folk to hang with.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky, I think it was you who asked for some lyrics of the protest songs of the Civil Rights Movement, so the following is all your fault. LOL. If you weren't the perpetrator, than this is somebody else's fault. LOL again. Since it's Sunday, i'll start with this:

MIB I am guilty as charged. Thanks for the song. I am not familiar with this one so again I have learned something new.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Check out your local NAACP, peace groups, League of women voters, occupy Kansas, etc for like minded folk to hang with.


All good suggestions peacegoddess. Sometimes we do need to be in the company of people who understand what we are all about and share our outlook on life and how we choose to live it in this society we currently live in. It can be a very isolating and cold place sometimes.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> All good suggestions peacegoddess. Sometimes we do need to be in the company of people who understand what we are all about and share our outlook on life and how we choose to live it in this society we currently live in. It can be a very isolating and cold place sometimes.


Cheeky Blighter
The human touch is missing in so many People's lives.
It has become so obvious here.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

BFM



EveMCooke said:


> Susanmos, I think you and I could have an interesting conversation, you seem to think along the same lines as I do. There is an interesting book The seven Daughters of Eve, which discusses mitochondrial DNA, I have lent my copy and it has not been returned. I had not read on Y chromosome Adam. When they were studying the DNA of the Australian Aboriginal they found traces of Neanderthal DNA plus older DNA. they traced it to people living in central Siberia in the past. I cannot find any more i formation on this though. These people were believed to have left Africa before the Neanderthals.
> 
> Loved the silly answer stating there was no such thing as an IQ of 1. Talk about going over someone's head. Same person made a silly remark about the Y chromosome and biology text book. Tell her it is a paleontology discussion.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> No such thing as an IQ of 1. Where do you get your info?? Talk about ludicrous, wow. Now that is ludicrous!
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll:


As an individual who believes in solving problems, don't you think that you could find one to work on?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

There is a fantastic series of novels by Jean Auel which starts with The Clan of the Cave Bears and goes on for 5 or 6 books. She did a great deal of research. These books are among the best of your historical novels. 
She consulted with many experts and puts forward that there was interspecies mating.



susanmos2000 said:


> The issue of whether Neanderthals were of the same species as modern man certainly was a hot topic in the 80s, when I was in high school. My biology teacher certainly was on the affirmative side--I recall him stating flatly that if you shaved a Neanderthal, dressed him in a business suit, and put him on a subway platform he'd blend right in!
> Weighing the evidence now, in the 21st century, it does appear that the majority of researchers feel that Neanderthals could have mated with modern man and produced fertile children--but the verdict is still out on whether in fact they actually did so. Some scientists say yes, some no. Obviously there's much more research to be done.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think many of us still worry way too much about being cast as the b*tch, there are way too many of us who are trained from infancy that we must be protected and that equals love even if it stunts us. We accept it still.



peacegoddess said:


> I loved listening to Gloria and Amy talk. It is interesting that women continue to be "subcast" in events.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I think many of us still worry way too much about being cast as the b*tch, there are way too many of us who are trained from infancy that we must be protected and that equals love even if it stunts us. We accept it still.


I embrace the term.....Being In Total Control (of) Herself


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> There is a fantastic series of novels by Jean Auel which starts with The Clan of the Cave Bears and goes on for 5 or 6 books. She did a great deal of research. These books are among the best of your historical novels.
> She consulted with many experts and puts forward that there was interspecies mating.


I liked the "theory" the herb mother had of "DNA memory".


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

miatalover66 said:


> Wonderful to find like minded people, sometime I feel so isolated. Don't get me wrong, I love living here. I grew up here but lived back east for many years, came home to be near family. Can't let go of what I evolved into there.


You might try Daily Kos -- several local authors/groups and newsletters. I subscribe to a couple of authors from SF.

Newsletter example:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/29/1234774/-Wisconsin-Guv-Walker-s-Newest-Bizarre-Scheme-to-Stop-Singers

Sign in:
https://www.dailykos.com/users/sign_in

Start your own: 
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/14/1231172/-DRAFT-community-guidelines-comment-period


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Joan Baez recorderd it on Vanguard, album title "5", recorded in 1964. A little googling should get you to a recording you can listen to for free. Be sure to have a hanky near at hand. There is also a PBS documentary that captures the true horror of this crime, another one for a few hankies, as it includes film of the 4 girls in better times at their church. I'm not sure I could watch it again.A huge part of what makes this crime so horrendous is that it occured on September 15th, 1963, and MLK made his "I have A Dream" speech on August 28th of the same year. It's one of the most disturbing views into the dark heart of racism I know of.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky, I think it was you who asked for some lyrics of the protest songs of the Civil Rights Movement, so the following is all your fault. LOL. If you weren't the perpetrator, than this is somebody else's fault. LOL again. Since it's Sunday, i'll start with this:
> 
> MIB I am guilty as charged. Thanks for the song. I am not familiar with this one so again I have learned something new.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Yarnie.One said:


> You might try Daily Kos -- several local authors/groups and newsletters. I subscribe to a couple of authors from SF.
> 
> Newsletter example:
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/29/1234774/-Wisconsin-Guv-Walker-s-Newest-Bizarre-Scheme-to-Stop-Singers
> ...


Yarnie.One
I am signed in there and find it most valuable.
Thank you for posting it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I thought it was pretty interesting that as the realization struck me that I needed to get involved again in a wider community as the Trayvon Martin case played out and as it becomes more obvious that there is so much disparity in income levels and I decided to reach out first to the local chapter of the NAACP that they had been inactive for almost 3 years. They had elections and planned a trip to DC for the commemoration. 
I do intend to go to the September meeting. I hope they give a full report of the observances. I have to admit my cynical side wonders if the funds for this trip were from the treasury or personal funds. 
I thought it was pretty sad that they (the newly elected leadership) didn't put forward the effort to have any sort of local celebration. 
Am I being too hard on them? I suppose I will only know after I attend that meeting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

One interesting thing: during the era of Jim Crow all service providers for African-Americans--doctors, lawyers, teachers, barbers--had to be of the same race as their clients. And of course recreation facilities (parks, carnivals, theaters) were heavily segregated as well.

But stores appear to be a big exception to the iron-bound traditions of segregation, and I'm not quite sure why. African-Americans might be obligated to use a separate entrance, might well be the last customers waited on--but still they were allowed to patronize the same establishments as Caucasians.

In retrospect this seems like an odd exception--was it simply due to the store owners' concern for their bottom line? What would have happened if African-Americans had been forced to build a completely separate economy, one quite independent from that of White America?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> One interesting thing: during the era of Jim Crow all service providers for African-Americans--doctors, lawyers, teachers, barbers--had to be of the same race as their clients. And of course recreation facilities (parks, carnivals, theaters) were heavily segregated as well.
> 
> But stores appear to be a big exception to the iron-bound traditions of segregation, and I'm not quite sure why. African-Americans might be obligated to use a separate entrance, might well be the last customers waited on--but still they were allowed to patronize the same establishments as Caucasians.
> 
> In retrospect this seems like an odd exception--was it simply due to the store owners' concern for their bottom line? What would have happened if African-Americans had been forced to build a completely separate economy, one quite independent from that of White America?


Call me callous, but independent black American grocery stores etc would not have been allowed because it would have cut the profits.....good ole capitalism in this instance was "color blind".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am guessing good old fashioned American greed.



susanmos2000 said:


> One interesting thing: during the era of Jim Crow all service providers for African-Americans--doctors, lawyers, teachers, barbers--had to be of the same race as their clients. And of course recreation facilities (parks, carnivals, theaters) were heavily segregated as well.
> 
> But stores appear to be a big exception to the iron-bound traditions of segregation, and I'm not quite sure why. African-Americans might be obligated to use a separate entrance, might well be the last customers waited on--but still they were allowed to patronize the same establishments as Caucasians.
> 
> In retrospect this seems like an odd exception--was it simply due to the store owners' concern for their bottom line? What would have happened if African-Americans had been forced to build a completely separate economy, one quite independent from that of White America?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder what Neanderthals have to do with MLK, just asking.


joeysomma
Go back an read the evolution of this subject.
Goodness, you keep falling to all sorts of holes.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have forgotten now whether I saw this here or at another source... a schedule for a "clinic" one day would be procedures for whites the next day procedures for ********. 
It was pretty odd.



peacegoddess said:


> Call me callous, but independent black American grocery stores etc would not have been allowed because it would have cut the profits.....good ole capitalism in this instance was "color blind".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have tears in my eyes.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, I think it was you who asked for some lyrics of the protest songs of the Civil Rights Movement, so the following is all your fault. LOL. If you weren't the perpetrator, than this is somebody else's fault. LOL again. Since it's Sunday, i'll start with this:
> 
> Birmingham Sunday
> by Richard Farina and Joan Baez
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



sumpleby said:


> *???* The Eve mentioned in the article was found in Africa and the date was 200,000 years ago.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I grew up back East too.



miatalover66 said:


> Wonderful to find like minded people, sometime I feel so isolated. Don't get me wrong, I love living here. I grew up here but lived back east for many years, came home to be near family. Can't let go of what I evolved into there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what does that mean? That you realize you misread and you apologize?



RUKnitting said:


> Again I am a person who expects and respects accuracy in discussion.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Creating a problem doesn't count.



jelun2 said:


> As an individual who believes in solving problems, don't you think that you could find one to work on?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've read the series several times. Believable fiction.



jelun2 said:


> There is a fantastic series of novels by Jean Auel which starts with The Clan of the Cave Bears and goes on for 5 or 6 books. She did a great deal of research. These books are among the best of your historical novels.
> She consulted with many experts and puts forward that there was interspecies mating.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am guessing good old fashioned American greed.


I think both you and Dame are probably correct. My militantly bigoted grandmother ran a craft store for a few years, and she grumbled endlessly about how carefully she had to watch her African-American customers and how they'd rob her blind if given half the chance. Her complaints were never ending--but still she was only too happy to take their money!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too. The Neandrathals were born with all the memory of their species, but had great difficulty in thinking in new ways. Homo sapiens was just the opposite. Examples abounded for the advantages and disadvantages of both.



peacegoddess said:


> I liked the "theory" the herb mother had of "DNA memory".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nice to know you're reading so closely. The topics will evolve....just like mankind.



joeysomma said:


> I wonder what Neanderthals have to do with MLK, just asking.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I look forward to hearing your observations.



jelun2 said:


> I thought it was pretty interesting that as the realization struck me that I needed to get involved again in a wider community as the Trayvon Martin case played out and as it becomes more obvious that there is so much disparity in income levels and I decided to reach out first to the local chapter of the NAACP that they had been inactive for almost 3 years. They had elections and planned a trip to DC for the commemoration.
> I do intend to go to the September meeting. I hope they give a full report of the observances. I have to admit my cynical side wonders if the funds for this trip were from the treasury or personal funds.
> I thought it was pretty sad that they (the newly elected leadership) didn't put forward the effort to have any sort of local celebration.
> Am I being too hard on them? I suppose I will only know after I attend that meeting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you care to make a comment, please provide an explanation so others can understand. If you're disgusted, please go away.



RUKnitting said:


> BFM


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And there is the traditional boycott....there may be a place for it now, along with a rebirth of the union movement. Labor Day may be a good time to discuss this.



susanmos2000 said:


> One interesting thing: during the era of Jim Crow all service providers for African-Americans--doctors, lawyers, teachers, barbers--had to be of the same race as their clients. And of course recreation facilities (parks, carnivals, theaters) were heavily segregated as well.
> 
> But stores appear to be a big exception to the iron-bound traditions of segregation, and I'm not quite sure why. African-Americans might be obligated to use a separate entrance, might well be the last customers waited on--but still they were allowed to patronize the same establishments as Caucasians.
> 
> In retrospect this seems like an odd exception--was it simply due to the store owners' concern for their bottom line? What would have happened if African-Americans had been forced to build a completely separate economy, one quite independent from that of White America?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Nice to know you're reading so closely. The topics will evolve....just like mankind.


Thank you for explaining this damemary but if someone was really following what was going on closely we have mentioned several times that the MLK Anniversary, Civil Rights, Slavery etc. was just our first topic. The world is full of fascinating bits of information to enrich our minds. Just as we have evolved as a species, with new knowledge our minds and thoughts will also evolve and we can all share in this wonderful journey with the rest of our curious liberal sisters.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Eve...I too am very intrigued by the latest findings of the genetic researchers and would love to explore the subject with you in depth. All of this is new to me--in my high school and college years the techniques for classifying and studying human DNA were still in their infancy--the strides made in just twenty years are unbelievable!
> This thread is a godsend for bringing like minded folks together, and once more I have to thank Cheeky and the others for all their hard work. So many interesting ideas to explore, so much information coming in from people curious about the world around them--whodathunk this was possible just a few days ago?


Isn't it grand?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does this mean you quit learning in grade school and don't wish to learn anything new? I must misunderstand.

------


RUKnitting said:


> BFM I don't need to read anything re: middle school biology and in some school systems it's taught in elementary school.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're in the wrong place. This is POV Liberal.



RUKnitting said:


> Again I am a person who expects and respects accuracy in discussion.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are a person who is here only to spread your fatuous remarks and hostility. That's *all* that can be expected of you. You are not wanted here. Better scoot, KPG is calling you.


Or could it be KPG missing us?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not everything is written literally. Don't waste time. Read for meaning.


Must be boring when your world is all in black and white and you cannot see all the color gradations that are in between. So sad to not be able to appreciate such a beautiful world.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary wrote:
Peacegoddess, I read every word of the Gloria Richardson interview. (Long interview page 54 POV Liberal.)I found it riveting. She's 91 years of age and knows (and tells) it all. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.


I loved listening to Gloria and Amy talk. It is interesting that women continue to be "subcast" in events.

If you want peace, work for justice.



And 50 years later not much has changed. We as women still have a ways to go. I have too often found women cutting down each other and not bringing them along as men have always done for each other. The few that I have met that did this were good mentors and guided me along and I hope I have done that for others and that this will only increase as we empower each other towards a better world for everyone.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Must be boring when your world is all in black and white and you cannot see all the color gradations that are in between. So sad to not be able to appreciate such a beautiful world.


Sorry, Cheeky, but they don't see the world in black and white. Just white.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wah, wah, wah.' Same old story Jane. I don't hate Native Americans.
> Respect isn't a given, it is something you have to earn no matter what sex or race you may be.


Is your name Cheeky? Why are you saying wah, wah, wah, same old story Jane as you & others have continually made fun of me because I'm an American Apache Indian.

Where do you think the slaves came from in the first place as your people in Africa traded to people who traded items for the slaves in the first place! Read your history!

Yes, you will find Indians also made slaves out of other tribes when they were captured to do a lot of work around the camp. Some of the women were married & produced many children.

Your black race has suffered but others have also suffered as my people have suffered & continue to suffer.

Bringing up the past does nothing for the future until people stop criticizing other races.

In America, we have a diverse population of different races. Our church sponsored a group of people from Burma who needed help learning our language & culture. They were a very interesting people to know. They were avid gardeners who could almost make things grow out of cement. Their pole dances were placed on the floor & they danced around & through the poles as members clanged them together. The women were very good at crafts with the most beautiful embroidery work I have ever seen. They were very polite, excellent parents and very clean people who worked very hard.

Have any of you had the pleasure to meet any Burmese people?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry, Cheeky, but they don't see the world in black and white. Just white.


Amen,Patty. I stand corrected.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Call me callous, but independent black American grocery stores etc would not have been allowed because it would have cut the profits.....good ole capitalism in this instance was "color blind".


So true, Dame, and it makes me wonder if a new approach isn't in order to combat the ugly bigotry that's dogged American society for so long.

Education is stressed as a great equalizer, a thing that will lift struggling minority groups up into the middle class. Frankly I now wonder if that in itself is enough. We've had highly-educated African-American teachers, ministers, and university professors from the period of Reconstruction and before, and still people revel in their bigoted attitudes and continue to hurl abuse.

Alas Americans too often show little respect for education--but money is enough to bring even the most hard-hearted bigot to his or her knees. As has been pointed out, even the most hateful racist store owner could put his feelings aside long enough to accept dollar bills from his "colored" customers' hands.

What if African-Americans communities focused not only on higher education but also on careers in banking, finance, investment etc? It's sad but true that money is power in our society, and one of the surest ways to earn respect is to have control over a sizable chunk of it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Is your name Cheeky? Why are you saying wah, wah, wah, same old story Jane as you & others have continually made fun of me because I'm an American Apache Indian.
> 
> Where do you think the slaves came from in the first place as your people in Africa traded to people who traded items for the slaves in the first place! Read your history!
> 
> ...


Yes. My SIL is Burmese.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> You're in the wrong place. This is POV Liberal.


Do you think this thread is private for blacks only? Talk about Racism!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Do you think this thread is private for blacks only? Talk about Racism!


What in God's name are you talking about now??? 
Get a clue, Janeway.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Is your name Cheeky? Why are you saying wah, wah, wah, same old story Jane as you & others have continually made fun of me because I'm an American Apache Indian.
> 
> Where do you think the slaves came from in the first place as your people in Africa traded to people who traded items for the slaves in the first place! Read your history!
> 
> ...


Somebody give her shot and put her to bed.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Dame, and it makes me wonder if a new approach isn't in order to combat the ugly bigotry that's dogged American society for so long.
> 
> Education is stressed as a great equalizer, a thing that will lift struggling minority groups up into the middle class. Frankly I now wonder if that in itself is enough. We've had highly-educated African-American teachers, ministers, and university professors from the period of Reconstruction and before, and still people revel in their bigoted attitudes and continue to hurl abuse.
> 
> ...


Well business and finance education seldom produces independent creative thinkers. We might end up with financial Clarence Thomas types.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes. My SIL is Burmese.


Well then you are a lucky person as the Burmese people are wonderful.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Somebody give her shot and put her to bed.


Can't you ever say anything nice?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Can't you ever say anything nice?


Can't you ever make sense? This not a thread for blacks only, Janeway. If it was, half of us wouldn't be posting. Where do you come with this stuff?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can't you ever make sense? This not a thread for blacks only, Janeway. If it was, half of us wouldn't be posting. Where do you come with this stuff?


Bratty, not knowing or caring what your ethnicity is, but sometime in the past (about 2 months ago) Janeway decided you are African American. I wish I could recall the exact time it was posted as I do remember it being based on some odd Janeway type reality.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well business and finance education seldom produces independent creative thinkers. We might end up with financial Clarence Thomas types.


I expect we would, Dame. And you raise a good point--full assimilation seems the Holy Grail for many who deplore the dire straits African-American families find themselves in. But too many "average" Americans are ignorant, provincial, and hopelessly bigoted--is that really what African-Americans should strive to achieve?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Dame, and it makes me wonder if a new approach isn't in order to combat the ugly bigotry that's dogged American society for so long.
> 
> Education is stressed as a great equalizer, a thing that will lift struggling minority groups up into the middle class. Frankly I now wonder if that in itself is enough. We've had highly-educated African-American teachers, ministers, and university professors from the period of Reconstruction and before, and still people revel in their bigoted attitudes and continue to hurl abuse.
> 
> ...


I think that children who live in poverty, regardless of color need to have role models who can help inspire them and show them all the possibilities there are for them and to dream big. I was involved in Big Brothers and Big Sisters when I was in college and while it didn't work for everyone I saw a lot of kids who really improved their attitude about themselves and developed a lot more self confidence because somebody took the time and cared about them. I admire a lot of the athletes who are out there giving there time to kids and encouraging them, not to become athletes but to stay in school, go on to college or learn a trade and make a life for themselves. Lots of kids just need that extra attention to help them along the way and know others believe in them and it can make all the difference in the world. Also, legalizing marijuana would solve a lot of problems for youth as many are the runners for drug dealers and are the ones who make virtually nothing but take all the risks for some fat cat, who is living a nice "respectable" life on the backs of these kids. Just taking that one thing away I think would save a lot of kids. There are so many other things that can help. I could go on and on.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> A bit of commentary for those unfamiliar with the cast of characters:
> 
> We have identified some tricks. One is for especially disruptive characters to register under various names to make it seem that more people agree with them. They add only rantings and no discussion to the topic. They know everything and anyone who disagrees is wrong and in need of saving.
> 
> Comments always welcome. Typos don't count. Soon.


You are the one who knows about this "trick" as you call it as you have more than one account on KP as you just joined August 3, 2013 with a new name. So fess up to what you have done to those who are reading this thread.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Bratty, not knowing or caring what your ethnicity is, but sometime in the past (about 2 months ago) Janeway decided you are African American. I wish I could recall the exact time it was posted as I do remember it being based on some odd Janeway type reality.


LOL peace, I do remember that. We all changed our avatars to black women that we admire.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well business and finance education seldom produces independent creative thinkers. We might end up with financial Clarence Thomas types.


That is a frightening thought, peacegoddess.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Bratty, not knowing or caring what your ethnicity is, but sometime in the past (about 2 months ago) Janeway decided you are African American. I wish I could recall the exact time it was posted as I do remember it being based on some odd Janeway type reality.


Thank you as Cheeky & Bratty are of mixed race. I'm not odd but you sure have posted plenty of odd posts. I could care less what race anyone is as blacks are not the only people who have been discriminated against.

My race is also discriminated against in the past & even today by some of the same posters here.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You are the one who knows about this "trick" as you call it as you have more than one account on KP as you just joined August 3, 2013 with a new name. So fess up to what you have done to those who are reading this thread.


Jane ride your horse on out of here if you can't join the discussion in a respectful way. You are always accusing new people of being somebody else when you have no clue.
I saw how you harrassed sumbleby in S & O just today accusing her of being Freedom Fries. Now you are accusing dame as being soebody else? Get real! You are making a huge fool out of ourself once again.
Nobody around here wants that or should have to be accused of that. It is not a nice way to welcome new people to KP.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as Cheeky & Bratty are of mixed race. I'm not odd but you sure have posted plenty of odd posts. I could care less what race anyone is as blacks are not the only people who have been discriminated against.
> 
> My race is also discriminated against in the past & even today by some of the same posters here.


Janeway, If you did not care then you would not spend time speculating on others' ethnicity.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That is a frightening thought, peacegoddess.


I scare myself sometimes.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as Cheeky & Bratty are of mixed race. I'm not odd but you sure have posted plenty of odd posts. I could care less what race anyone is as blacks are not the only people who have been discriminated against.
> 
> My race is also discriminated against in the past & even today by some of the same posters here.


I am not of mixed race. Once again, you have no clue! Nobody really cares that you are NA Jane, you are the only one bringing it up. If you are so upset about NA's being discriminated against go start a thread about it.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Check out your local NAACP, peace groups, League of women voters, occupy Kansas, etc for like minded folk to hang with.


Most of these national groups don't even know we exist. I once thought I'd like to be more of an activist and was a member of the league of women voters. I was directed to a group in Wichita which is about 250 miles south of me, no local chapters here. I went to a rally for Obama in October and the organizers wanted volunteers to go door to door in Iowa, they knew Kansas is a lost cause. Don't get me talking about evolution in our schools, creationism is still a hot topic here. I have learned to keep my mouth shut. And women's issues, we fought so hard back in the 60's and 70's but look at how women are portrayed as sex objects and our young women are buying into that. KC just got listed in the top 10 list of porn site use. So many women do not even take the time to vote! Get me off my soap box, please. I could go on and on.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Thank you as Cheeky & Bratty are of mixed race. I'm not odd but you sure have posted plenty of odd posts. I could care less what race anyone is as blacks are not the only people who have been discriminated against.
> 
> My race is also discriminated against in the past & even today by some of the same posters here.


Janeway, I am surprised you are not concerned about the many environmental atrocities proposed for Native Tribal lands in both the US and Canada. Also, I would think you might be involved in some of the work done with Native American substance abuse.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Most of these national groups don't even know we exist. I once thought I'd like to be more of an activist and was a member of the league of women voters. I was directed to a group in Wichita which is about 250 miles south of me, no local chapters here. I went to a rally for Obama in October and the organizers wanted volunteers to go door to door in Iowa, they knew Kansas is a lost cause. Don't get me talking about evolution in our schools, creationism is still a hot topic here. I have learned to keep my mouth shut. And women's issues, we fought so hard back in the 60's and 70's but look at how women are portrayed as sex objects and our young women are buying into that. KC just got listed in the top 10 list of porn site use. So many women do not even take the time to vote! Get me off my soap box, please. I could go on and on.


Perhaps there is a group you might join up with in Kansas City MO. Isn't it fairly close to Shawnee?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I expect we would, Dame. And you raise a good point--full assimilation seems the Holy Grail for many who deplore the dire straits African-American families find themselves in. But too many "average" Americans are ignorant, provincial, and hopelessly bigoted--is that really what African-Americans should strive to achieve?


I appreciate the beauty of diversity but I also appreciate the beauty of people falling in love and procreating. Then what follows is a beautiful hybrid. I would think that it would take centuries and then some before we were so all intermingled that we would all be exactly alike physically. I'm still planning for the day when all that just doesn't matter anymore. I still believe it is possible.






"Imagine" performed by John Lennon and Childrens Choir at London's Olympic closing Ceremonies, 2012


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I appreciate the beauty of diversity but I also appreciate the beauty of people falling in love and procreating. Then what follows is a beautiful hybrid. I would think that it would take centuries and then some before we were so all intermingled that we would all be exactly alike physically. I'm still planning for the day when all that just doesn't matter anymore. I still believe it is possible.


I do,too.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Perhaps there is a group you might join up with in Kansas City MO. Isn't it fairly close to Shawnee?


Very close, in fact just a few miles east of Shawnee. But the same conservative forces are hard at work, formulating policies. Missouri used to be a predominantly democrat state but not any longer.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Where is your logic? I expect and respect accuracy in adult discussion is what I wrote. Believe me I have no problem with the English language. It has nothing to do with "apologize". Would you prefer I put it in Mandarin?



damemary said:


> And what does that mean? That you realize you misread and you apologize?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I appreciate the beauty of diversity but I also appreciate the beauty of people falling in love and procreating. Then what follows is a beautiful hybrid. I would think that it would take centuries and then some before we were so all intermingled that we would all be exactly alike physically. I'm still planning for the day when all that just doesn't matter anymore. I still believe it is possible.


I don't mean physical assimilation exactly--as in the races becoming so mixed that the labels "African-American", "Asian", and "Caucasian" no longer have any real meaning (I think over the course of time it's a given anyway).

No, I'm thinking of our "model minorities" (a phrase I personally hate, but please bear with me), the Asians: Chinese, Japanese, Burmese etc. In this country they still stand as distinct ethnic groups, but the fierce racism of the past towards them seems to have subsided. American society considers them "wonderful" people, hardworking, "clean" etc etc. Intermarriage between Asians and white raises few eyebrows these days, and in a very real way they've "arrived" in modern American society (God help them).

As I mentioned before, money and power are keys in our society to gaining equality, but to me it appears that traditionally African-Americans have channeled their energies into careers that, alas, bring little of either. Teaching, nursing, theology, administrative positions in colleges and universities--very noble professions, but to our money-oriented society they're worth diddly squat.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I do,too.


Did you listen to the song? Just click on the link.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

It's not a new idea for the spokespersons of oppressed and subjugated groups to advocate change by encouraging different career choices. For decades leading women have chaffed against schools and universities that channel girls into "traditional" careers like teaching and nursing and bypass the more "manly" occupations which, not co-incidentally, bring with them greater economic security and political clout. There's been a real drive to place girls in classes that teach higher math and sciences, and a major push to encourage young women to consider such careers as engineering, research scientist, banking, etc. The results have been impressive, no question. And if such a strategy brings results in a more favorable status for women, why shouldn't it work for African-Americans?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes you certainly did misunderstand. My point was that the so-called genetics was basic and taught in elementary and middle school biology. And that the posted representation was questionable to fact.

Despite the fact that the English language is definitive and precise there is constant implied or rewording of what was originally written.

And your reply to Joey's question was downright funny. I'm sure she expected no more from you. Possibly our brains are wired differently.


damemary said:


> Does this mean you quit learning in grade school and don't wish to learn anything new? I must misunderstand.
> 
> ------


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

So am I to understand that you do not expect or respect accuracy on POV? That would explain many things.


damemary said:


> You're in the wrong place. This is POV Liberal.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think both you and Dame are probably correct. My militantly bigoted grandmother ran a craft store for a few years, and she grumbled endlessly about how carefully she had to watch her African-American customers and how they'd rob her blind if given half the chance. Her complaints were never ending--but still she was only too happy to take their money!


susanmos2000
we had a Craft store here that when a black friend and I entered the Owner asked for my friend to leave her Purse up front but not me. We turned around and out we went. After that I went there several times just to annoy the woman. I would go in and say out loud, oh, sorry wrong store, this is the one where black woman have to check in their purses and whites don't, good bye.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Double post


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry, Cheeky, but they don't see the world in black and white. Just white.


BrattyPatty
Their World is totally dark and from that emerges so much anger.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> we had a Craft store here that when a black friend and I entered the Owner asked for my friend to leave her Purse up front but not me. We turned around and out we went. After that I went there several times just to annoy the woman. I would go in and say out loud, oh, sorry wrong store, this is the one where black woman have to check in their purses and whites don't, good bye.


Good for you, Huck. I think your actions fall under the definition of "boycott" which, as someone (Dame?) said, is an excellent way of dealing with racist store owners. Nothing brings them around as fast as a noticeable drop in profits!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am not of mixed race. Once again, you have no clue! Nobody really cares that you are NA Jane, you are the only one bringing it up. If you are so upset about NA's being discriminated against go start a thread about it.


BrattyPatty
Nobody here ever spoke ill of Native Americans. She herself diminished them by acknowledging initially that she is only about 10% NA but now claims otherwise. What is wrong with her? Sorry, we know, do not need an answer to that.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Most of these national groups don't even know we exist. I once thought I'd like to be more of an activist and was a member of the league of women voters. I was directed to a group in Wichita which is about 250 miles south of me, no local chapters here. I went to a rally for Obama in October and the organizers wanted volunteers to go door to door in Iowa, they knew Kansas is a lost cause. Don't get me talking about evolution in our schools, creationism is still a hot topic here. I have learned to keep my mouth shut. And women's issues, we fought so hard back in the 60's and 70's but look at how women are portrayed as sex objects and our young women are buying into that. KC just got listed in the top 10 list of porn site use. So many women do not even take the time to vote! Get me off my soap box, please. I could go on and on.


miatalover66
Love to read your posts. Keep talking.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Actually there is only one race, the human race. The only difference is the amount of pigment in the person's skin.


joeysomma
you better keep that to yourself or you will be crucified by your buddies here.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes, miatalover66, please keep posting!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Guess who? RU one of the multiples.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That is too funny! :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Such salient points. Think on them before commenting. Such wisdom.
> 
> KPG Thanks You always say it so well!
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


You're most welcome. Thank you!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good for you, Huck. I think your actions fall under the definition of "boycott" which, as someone (Dame?) said, is an excellent way of dealing with racist store owners. Nothing brings them around as fast as a noticeable drop in profits!


susanmos2000
She no longer is in business. My friend and I spread the word. Bad news spreads 7x faster than good news and we even enhanced those numbers. Money speaks as we all know quite well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Good for you, Huck. I think your actions fall under the definition of "boycott" which, as someone (Dame?) said, is an excellent way of dealing with racist store owners. Nothing brings them around as fast as a noticeable drop in profits!


susanmos2000
We are also boycotting HobbyLobby. Freakish religious Owners and against Obamacare for their Employees.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That is too funny! :XD: :XD:


Really fits doesn't it. I am doing some research on our transition to our next topic. I think we can transition gradually as we all are involved and moving through the current posts at our own pace. We certainly won't get bored with all the interesting information so many different contributors are sharing.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Yes you certainly did misunderstand. My point was that the so-called genetics was basic and taught in elementary and middle school biology. And that the posted representation was questionable to fact.
> 
> Despite the fact that the English language is definitive and precise there is constant implied or rewording of what was originally written.
> 
> And your reply to Joey's question was downright funny. I'm sure she expected no more from you. Possibly our brains are wired differently.


RUKnitting
You are limiting yourself too much. Believe me, you do not know it all no matter how much you try to convince yourself.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I am far too intelligent to ever "come over to the Liberal left". I strongly believe in the individual not government to solve problems.


 :thumbup: Wholeheartedly agree!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Really fits doesn't it. I am doing some research on our transition to our next topic. I think we can transition gradually as we all are involved and moving through the current posts at our own pace. We certainly won't get bored with all the interesting information so many different contributors are sharing.


Sounds good to me!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> No such thing as an IQ of 1. Where do you get your info?? Talk about ludicrous, wow. Now that is ludicrous!
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :roll: :roll: :roll:


I think we just discovered the first specimen!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Nice to know you're reading so closely. The topics will evolve....just like mankind.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I think we just discovered the first case!


.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> We are also boycotting HobbyLobby. Freakish religious Owners and against Obamacare for their Employees.


Hi Huck - I appreciate your spunk. Many people have become far to complacent but when businesses are pressured with boycotts or picket lines they don't like the adverse publicity that follows. I have participated many times in both and accomplished a lot of good for "we the people". We can move mountains when we unite.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I have tears in my eyes.


A few more tears...

News Stories about the Bombing

UPI News Report of the Birmingham Church Bombing

Six Dead After Church Bombing 
Blast Kills Four Children; Riots Follow
Two Youths Slain; State Reinforces
Birmingham Police

United Press International 
September 16, 1963

Birmingham, Sept. 15 -- A bomb hurled from a passing car blasted a crowded ***** church today, killing four girls in their Sunday school classes and triggering outbreaks of violence that left two more persons dead in the streets.

Two ***** youths were killed in outbreaks of shooting seven hours after the 16th Street Baptist Church was bombed, and a third was wounded.

As darkness closed over the city hours later, shots crackled sporadically in the ***** sections. Stones smashed into cars driven by whites.

Five Fires Reported

Police reported at least five fires in ***** business establishments tonight. A official said some are being set, including one at a mop factory touched off by gasoline thrown on the building. The fires were brought under control and there were no injuries.

Meanwhile, NAACP Executive Secretary Roy Wilkins wired President Kennedy that unless the Federal Government offers more than "picayune and piecemeal aid against this type of bestiality" ******* will "employ such methods as our desperation may dictate in defense of the lives of our people."

Reinforced police units patrolled the city and 500 battle-dressed National Guardsmen stood by at an armory.

City police shot a 16-year-old ***** to death when he refused to heed their commands to halt after they caught him stoning cars. A 13-year-old ***** boy was shot and killed as he rode his bicycle in a suburban area north of the city.

Police Battle Crowd

Downtown streets were deserted after dark and police urged white and ***** parents to keep their children off the streets.

Thousands of hysterical ******* poured into the area around the church this morning and police fought for two hours, firing rifles into the air to control them.

When the crowd broke up, scattered shootings and stonings erupted through the city during the afternoon and tonight.

The ***** youth killed by police was Johnny Robinson, 16. They said he fled down an alley when they caught him stoning cars. They shot him when he refused to halt.

The 13-year-old boy killed outside the city was Virgil Ware. He was shot at about the same time as Robinson.

Shortly after the bombing police broke up a rally of white students protesting the desegregation of three Birmingham schools last week. A motorcade of militant adult segregationists apparently en route to the student rally was disbanded.

Police patrols, augmented by 300 State troopers sent into the city by Gov. George C. Wallace, quickly broke up all gatherings of white and *******. Wallace sent the troopers and ordered 500 National Guardsmen to stand by at Birmingham armories.

King arrived in the city tonight and went into a conference with Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth, a leader in the civil rights fight in Birmingham.

The City Council held an emergency meeting to discuss safety measures for the city, but rejected proposals for a curfew.

Dozens of persons were injured when the bomb went off in the church, which held 400 ******* at the time, including 80 children. It was Young Day at the church.

A few hours later, police picked up two white men, questioned them about the bombing and released them.

The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. wired President Kennedy from Atlanta that he was going to Birmingham to plead with ******* to "remain non-violent."

But he said that unless "immediate Federal steps are taken" there will be "in Birmingham and Alabama the worst racial holocaust this Nation has ever seen."

Dozens of survivors, their faces dripping blood from the glass that flew out of the church's stained glass windows, staggered around the building in a cloud of white dust raised by the explosion. The blast crushed two nearby cars like toys and blew out windows blocks away.

******* stoned cars in other sections of Birmingham and police exchanged shots with a ***** firing wild shotgun blasts two blocks from the church. It took officers two hours to disperse the screaming, surging crowd of 2,000 ******* who ran to the church at the sound of the blast.

At least 20 persons were hurt badly enough by the blast to be treated at hospitals. Many more, cut and bruised by flying debris, were treated privately.

(The Associated Press reported that among the injured in subsequent shooting were a white man injured by a *****. Another white man was wounded by a ***** who attempted to rob him, according to police.)

Mayor Albert Boutwell, tears streaming down his cheeks, announced the city had asked for help.

"It is a tragic event," Boutwell said. "It is just sickening that a few individuals could commit such a horrible atrocity. The occurrence of such a thing has so gravely concerned the public..." His voice broke and he could not go on.

Boutwell and Police Chief Jamie Moore requested the State assistance in a telegram to Wallace.

"While the situation appears to be well under control of federal law enforcement officers at this time, the possibility of further trouble exists," Boutwell and Moore said in their telegram.

President Kennedy, yachting off Newport, R.I., was notified by radio-telephone and Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy ordered his chief civil rights troubleshooter, Burke Marshall, to Birmingham. At least 25 FBI agents, including bomb experts from Washington, were being rushed in.

City Police Inspector W.J. Haley said as many as 15 sticks of dynamite must have been used.

"We have talked to witnesses who say they saw a car drive by and then speed away just before the bomb hit," he said.

In Montgomery, Wallace said he had a similar report and said the descriptions of the car's occupants did not make clear their race. But he served notice "on those responsible that every law enforcement agency of this State will be used to apprehend them."

The bombing was the 21st in Birmingham in eight years, and the first to kill. None of the bombings have been solved.

As police struggled to hold back the crowd, the blasted church's pastor, the Rev. John H. Cross, grabbed a megaphone and walked back and forth, telling the crowd: "The police are doing everything they can. Please go home."

"The Lord is our shepherd," he sobbed. "We shall not want."

The only stained glass window in the church that remained in its frame showed Christ leading a group of little children. The face of Christ was blown out.

After the police dispersed the hysterical crowds, workmen with pickaxes went into the wrecked basement of the church. Parts of brightly painted children's furniture were strewn about in one Sunday School room, and blood stained the floors. Chunks of concrete the size of footballs littered the basement.

The bomb apparently went off in an unoccupied basement room and blew down the wall, sending stone and debris flying like shrapnel into a room where children were assembling for closing prayers following Sunday School. Bibles and song books lay shredded and scattered through the church.

In the main sanctuary upstairs, which holds about 500 persons, the pulpit and Bible were covered with pieces of stained glass.

One of the dead girls was decapitated. The coroner's office identified the dead as Denise McNair, 11; Carol Robertson, 14; Cynthia Wesley, 14, and Addie Mae Collins, 10.

As the crowd came outside watched the victims being carried out, one youth broke away and tried to touch one of the blanket-covered forms.

"This is my sister," he cried. "My God, she's dead." Police took the hysterical boy away.

Mamie Grier, superintendent of the Sunday School, said when the bomb went off "people began screaming, almost stampeding" to get outside. The wounded walked around in a daze, she said.

One of the injured taken to a hospital was a white man. Many others cut by flying glass and other debris were not treated at hospitals.

Fourth in Four Weeks

It was the fourth bombing in four weeks in Birmingham, and the third since the current school desegregation crisis came to a boil Sept. 4.

Desegregation of schools in Birmingham, Mobile, and Tuskegee was finally brought about last Wednesday when President Kennedy federalized the National Guard. Some of the Guardsmen in Birmingham are still under Federal orders. Wallace said the ones he alerted today were units of the Guard "not now federalized."

The City of Birmingham has offered a $52,000 reward for the arrest of the bombers, and Wallace today offered another $5,000.

Dr. King Berates Wallace

But Dr. King wired Wallace that "the blood of four little children ... is on your hands. Your irresponsible and misguided actions have created in Birmingham and Alabama the atmosphere that has induced continued violence and now murder."

Online Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/churches/archives1.htm


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sounds good to me!


Looks like somebody is digging out her old posts and then posting them out here again. That's what you get when the entertainment is free. Probably no popcorn or soda will be provided with the SHOW. :thumbdown: 
Someone should get the hook Patty and close the curtains. I'm bored so I will post some more pictures.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> It's too bad you are only singing the same old boring tune. You go on and on about the how righties can stay if they are respectful towards others, yet not a word or comment from you to the liberals that are showing no respect to those on the right. Demand the same standards from your friends as well. They are not innocent. If you don't step up then this thread will fall into the same downward spiral as the Progressive Cafe 1 & 2, The Progressive Women's Forum and the LOLL threads. (I know you did not start LOLL, but the same people are on all.) Not listening or accepting another persons differing opinion was the common denominator for the failure of these threads. Starting this new thread is equivalent to going to another restaurant with the same people and expecting the conversation to be different.
> 
> If you really want intelligent conversation then learn to listen to others POVs. Intelligent conversations thrive on a two way street. You don't have to agree, but listen. Reply honestly, not by attacking. Who knows, the outcome of the discussion could produce solutions to the problems communities face. I hope that is something you desire.


Bravo! Cheeky says she wants to discuss respectfully, but she is the most vicious attacker of all those who post in this thread.

You are correct, to date only two new voices have posted that are not the same group of Libs in the Progressive, Cafe, and LOLL threads that all failed. Need we have to tell anyone reading this thread the alternative names of the Libs who post using different IDs names? Probably we don't as no one cares what the Libs say here as BrattyPatty has expressed multiple times.

Furthermore, the intention of the topic is avoided and not discussed. The only discussion is the history of slavery and the Neanderthals, lyrics and what can be done to all the racists.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

I have been boycotting them for several years. May not make much difference, sort of like voting Democrat in Kansas but it makes me feel better.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Huck - I appreciate your spunk. Many people have become far to complacent but when businesses are pressured with boycotts or picket lines they don't like the adverse publicity that follows. I have participated many times in both and accomplished a lot of good for "we the people". We can move mountains when we unite.


Sorry, just read my post and realized it made no sense without the quote


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Looks like somebody is digging out her old posts and then posting them out here again. That's what you get when the entertainment is free. Probably no popcorn or soda will be provided with the SHOW. :thumbdown:
> Someone should get the hook Patty and close the curtains. I'm bored so I will post some more pictures.


It's really sad Cheeky. Patting itself on the back. Poor thing.
Must be craving attention again.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun,thanks for posting that. I remember bits and pieces of the bombing. It is still hard to take. When children are involved it makes it even worse.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

I have no idea what that means, is it sarcasm or a criticism ?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jelun - Thanks for posting the list. I remember those things as if it were just yesterday and to think that these terrible acts were committed by people who considered themselves Christians and proclaimed they were "washed in the blood of Jesus". Jesus would never have done these things. I guess evil people always twist what is good to rationalize their own sick behavior. So sad.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> If you care to make a comment, please provide an explanation so others can understand. If you're disgusted, please go away.


If you're IQ is 1 or above you'd understand the acronym.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If you're IQ is 1 or above you'd understand the acronym.


Now that is just plain snarky and is not necessary. I am getting off this thread.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUknitting said:


> Again I am a person who expects and respects accuracy in discussion.





damemary said:


> You're in the wrong place. This is POV Liberal.


You've got that right dame! No accuracy nor intelligence to be found by the POV Libs in this thread.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I have no idea what that means, is it sarcasm or a criticism ?


miata,it was a posting directed at one of the troublemaking trolls who frequent the thread. Or any liberal thread for that matter.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You've got that right dame! No accuracy nor intelligence to be found by the POV Libs in this thread.


Yes, you prove that every time you post. Now run back to your racist, hating cronies. You are not wanted here.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Do you think this thread is private for blacks only? Talk about Racism!


Cheeky has stated more than once; one color of person is welcome here on 'her' thread; black.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I have been boycotting them for several years. May not make much difference, sort of like voting Democrat in Kansas but it makes me feel better.


No HobbyLobby here, but I wouldn't buy from them in any case--a really despicable store. It does feel good to stand up for what we believe in--and the power of the pocketbook is indeed formidable.

That's all for tonight, ladies--bazinga!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky has stated more than once; one color of person is welcome here on 'her' thread; black.


Lies, lies, lies. Keep making a fool of yourself. The new ladies are getting quite a laugh at you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No HobbyLobby here, but I wouldn't buy from them in any case--a really despicable store. It does feel good to stand up for what we believe in--and the power of the pocketbook is indeed formidable.
> 
> That's all for tonight, ladies--bazinga!


Good night, Susan! The serpent has made it's appearance. Good time to leave.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Actually there is only one race, the human race. The only difference is the amount of pigment in the person's skin.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> jelun,thanks for posting that. I remember bits and pieces of the bombing. It is still hard to take. When children are involved it makes it even worse.


It really saddens me that I recall so little of that period. My only brush with the civil rights movement was connected with the horrifying events in Alabama in some small way. I cannot remember, or perhaps I never knew, the reason. 
A busload of kids came up from Selma, I am not clear on whether it was to avoid some action that was planned or if it was to give them a break from the horror. 
A young girl named Barbara stayed at our house. We were both too shy to communicate much. 
LOL, my strongest memory was my first french kiss, not with her, with a boy from Dorchester, MA. It would have been nice if my first had been with someone who knew what he was doing.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Very close, in fact just a few miles east of Shawnee. But the same conservative forces are hard at work, formulating policies. Missouri used to be a predominantly democrat state but not any longer.


You should hook up with Ingreid who also posts under the name Huckleberry (one person with two posting names). She lives in Missouri and is a regular poster on many threads and a Liberal.

She can easily explain to anyone who wants to know how to post with two names on KP.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> So am I to understand that you do not expect or respect accuracy on POV? That would explain many things.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

For heaven's sake, that sounds like the same line of BS that started another thread, I think it died out quickly, claiming I said to start a thread for black liberals. Jaysus.



BrattyPatty said:


> Lies, lies, lies. Keep making a fool of yourself. The new ladies are getting quite a laugh at you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> we had a Craft store here that when a black friend and I entered the Owner asked for my friend to leave her Purse up front but not me. We turned around and out we went. After that I went there several times just to annoy the woman. I would go in and say out loud, oh, sorry wrong store, this is the one where black woman have to check in their purses and whites don't, good bye.


What's the name of the store? I'd like to visit as well and have my say.

ETA: what was the name of the store


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So similar, isn't it, to those who claim to think that homosexuality is so evil and yet all they seem to do is think about gay men having sex. 
Heck, I don't really want to think about anyone having sex.



peacegoddess said:


> I scare myself sometimes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Really fits doesn't it. I am doing some research on our transition to our next topic. I think we can transition gradually as we all are involved and moving through the current posts at our own pace. We certainly won't get bored with all the interesting information so many different contributors are sharing.


Right - all five of you using seven names.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What's the name of the store? I'd like to visit as well and have my say.


susanmos2000
"we had a Craft store here that when a black friend and I entered the Owner asked for my friend to leave her Purse up front but not me. We turned around and out ..."

Before you get started, KPG, had generally denotes past tense.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes, I know jelun. KPG has a problem with telling the truth.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Right - all five of you using seven names.


 :evil:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What's the name of the store? I'd like to visit as well and have my say.


They don't allow serpents in the store.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, I know jelun. KPG has a problem with telling the truth.


 :wink:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> susanmos2000
> "we had a Craft store here that when a black friend and I entered the Owner asked for my friend to leave her Purse up front but not me. We turned around and out ..."
> 
> Before you get started, KPG, had generally denotes past tense.


 and "I went there several times ... to annoy" ... denotes the store still exists.

Before you get started, I edited my question after reading an update that the store went out of business which was posted later.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> and "I went there several times ... to annoy" ... denotes the store still exists.
> 
> Before you get started, I edited my question after reading an update that the store went out of business which was posted later.


Nobody cares, KPG.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said: LOL, my strongest memory was my first french kiss, not with her, with a boy from Dorchester, MA. It would have been nice if my first had been with someone who knew what he was doing.

Ok, that made me laugh and reminded me of my first kiss. It was wet and sloppy and I thought if that is all there is to it, I don't think I will do this again. I did change my mind though. sleep tight everyone


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> They don't allow serpents in the store.


They may have allowed her in the store, it would seem perfect match. 
serpent=evil=racism


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> jelun2 said: LOL, my strongest memory was my first french kiss, not with her, with a boy from Dorchester, MA. It would have been nice if my first had been with someone who knew what he was doing.
> 
> Ok, that made me laugh and reminded me of my first kiss. It was wet and sloppy and I thought if that is all there is to it, I don't think I will do this again. I did change my mind though. sleep tight everyone


Good night,NJG! Sweet Dreams!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> They may have allowed her in the store, it would seem perfect match.
> serpent=evil=racism


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> jelun2 said: LOL, my strongest memory was my first french kiss, not with her, with a boy from Dorchester, MA. It would have been nice if my first had been with someone who knew what he was doing.
> 
> Ok, that made me laugh and reminded me of my first kiss. It was wet and sloppy and I thought if that is all there is to it, I don't think I will do this again. I did change my mind though. sleep tight everyone


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I missed that post about your first kiss. How funny!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Liberal ladies I am respectfully requesting that you not engage the elephant in the room. We all see her but she does not deserve any attention from us either positive or negative. This is a thread for Liberals to congregate in a peaceful manner and not for elephants. Thank you for your cooperation. I think some of her multiples may be out tonight too. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amen Sisters.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary wrote:
> Peacegoddess, I read every word of the Gloria Richardson interview. (Long interview page 54 POV Liberal.)I found it riveting. She's 91 years of age and knows (and tells) it all. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.
> 
> I loved listening to Gloria and Amy talk. It is interesting that women continue to be "subcast" in events.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good. They won't see the changes coming, and the times they are changing.



BrattyPatty said:


> Sorry, Cheeky, but they don't see the world in black and white. Just white.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Stifle. You know you are off the path.



Janeway said:


> Is your name Cheeky? Why are you saying wah, wah, wah, same old story Jane as you & others have continually made fun of me because I'm an American Apache Indian.
> 
> Where do you think the slaves came from in the first place as your people in Africa traded to people who traded items for the slaves in the first place! Read your history!
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well ladies,It's been a long day.I am off to read and relax.
Catch you tomorrow. Good night!
Remember Bazinga!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. Personally, I think a pacifist approach hasn't worked.

Finance, investment. Lead the way.

A confident and aggressive stance led by determined, educated group will be more effective now.IMHO



susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Dame, and it makes me wonder if a new approach isn't in order to combat the ugly bigotry that's dogged American society for so long.
> 
> .
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not black and I'm very comfortable here Do you need someone to open the exit for you?



Janeway said:


> Do you think this thread is private for blacks only? Talk about Racism!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For information in the finance/investment area, read John Bogle. He's the best there is.



peacegoddess said:


> Well business and finance education seldom produces independent creative thinkers. We might end up with financial Clarence Thomas types.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering....Please make her go away. >>>



peacegoddess said:


> Bratty, not knowing or caring what your ethnicity is, but sometime in the past (about 2 months ago) Janeway decided you are African American. I wish I could recall the exact time it was posted as I do remember it being based on some odd Janeway type reality.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We all need to be contented souls. Listen to voices that lend character. To thine own self be true. IMHO



susanmos2000 said:


> I expect we would, Dame. And you raise a good point--full assimilation seems the Holy Grail for many who deplore the dire straits African-American families find themselves in. But too many "average" Americans are ignorant, provincial, and hopelessly bigoted--is that really what African-Americans should strive to achieve?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes Jane, you are correct. I changed my user name in the futile attempt to avoid harassment and threats. Do you have a problem with that?



Janeway said:


> You are the one who knows about this "trick" as you call it as you have more than one account on KP as you just joined August 3, 2013 with a new name. So fess up to what you have done to those who are reading this thread.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was fun. And they called us stooges....I just do avatars on POV that strike my fancy.



BrattyPatty said:


> LOL peace, I do remember that. We all changed our avatars to black women that we admire.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night Damemary. Sweet dreams. I'll see you tomorrow.
Bazinga! TBBC :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think if people of character go in, people of character come out.

I would say that Bill Gates & Warren Buffet do good things with their money and they both came from business and investment but never lost sight of the common man.

Buffet is giving most of his fortune to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation. They are providing sanitation and clean water to 3rd world countries and have goals to eradicate many diseases in our lifetimes. I'd say that's a case of making the world a better place, wouldn't you?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> That is a frightening thought, peacegoddess.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You have nothing to add to the discussion. Take a break.



Janeway said:


> Thank you as Cheeky & Bratty are of mixed race. I'm not odd but you sure have posted plenty of odd posts. I could care less what race anyone is as blacks are not the only people who have been discriminated against.
> 
> My race is also discriminated against in the past & even today by some of the same posters here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too, but let's be optimistic. ( Sometimes I have to fake it until I believe it again. )



peacegoddess said:


> I scare myself sometimes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We all have a group of friends here. Welcome. Let's keep working to make this a safe and interesting ( to us ) place for discussion ..... and FUN.



miatalover66 said:


> Most of these national groups don't even know we exist. I once thought I'd like to be more of an activist and was a member of the league of women voters. I was directed to a group in Wichita which is about 250 miles south of me, no local chapters here. I went to a rally for Obama in October and the organizers wanted volunteers to go door to door in Iowa, they knew Kansas is a lost cause. Don't get me talking about evolution in our schools, creationism is still a hot topic here. I have learned to keep my mouth shut. And women's issues, we fought so hard back in the 60's and 70's but look at how women are portrayed as sex objects and our young women are buying into that. KC just got listed in the top 10 list of porn site use. So many women do not even take the time to vote! Get me off my soap box, please. I could go on and on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Stifle. You are not here for objective discussion and you persist in disrupting others. Try Charm School.



RUKnitting said:


> Where is your logic? I expect and respect accuracy in adult discussion is what I wrote. Believe me I have no problem with the English language. It has nothing to do with "apologize". Would you prefer I put it in Mandarin?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see your point.



susanmos2000 said:


> I don't mean physical assimilation exactly--as in the races becoming so mixed that the labels "African-American", "Asian", and "Caucasian" no longer have any real meaning (I think over the course of time it's a given anyway).
> 
> No, I'm thinking of our "model minorities" (a phrase I personally hate, but please bear with me), the Asians: Chinese, Japanese, Burmese etc. In this country they still stand as distinct ethnic groups, but the fierce racism of the past towards them seems to have subsided. American society considers them "wonderful" people, hardworking, "clean" etc etc. Intermarriage between Asians and white raises few eyebrows these days, and in a very real way they've "arrived" in modern American society (God help them).
> 
> As I mentioned before, money and power are keys in our society to gaining equality, but to me it appears that traditionally African-Americans have channeled their energies into careers that, alas, bring little of either. Teaching, nursing, theology, administrative positions in colleges and universities--very noble professions, but to our money-oriented society they're worth diddly squat.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I am feeling very pessimistic and disgusted by the last few pages of this topic, seeing the name calling and put-downs invade this topic as they have every other so-called political topic. It looks to me like there's more than one elephant in the room and all of them need to be ignored. Well, maybe not. Maybe no one can manage to "congregate in a peaceful manner". Maybe this topic has already gone down in flames just like all the others that started out so idealistically and ended up being trash cans for trash talk.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Liberal ladies I am respectfully requesting that you not engage the elephant in the room. We all see her but she does not deserve any attention from us either positive or negative. This is a thread for Liberals to congregate in a peaceful manner and not for elephants. Thank you for your cooperation. I think some of her multiples may be out tonight too. :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go sisters!

I've seen interesting career paths emerge. Technology. Engineering. Sales. Management. Investment.

Think outside the box. But many times young people have no idea these areas exist. This is an important part of education.



susanmos2000 said:


> It's not a new idea for the spokespersons of oppressed and subjugated groups to advocate change by encouraging different career choices. For decades leading women have chaffed against schools and universities that channel girls into "traditional" careers like teaching and nursing and bypass the more "manly" occupations which, not co-incidentally, bring with them greater economic security and political clout. There's been a real drive to place girls in classes that teach higher math and sciences, and a major push to encourage young women to consider such careers as engineering, research scientist, banking, etc. The results have been impressive, no question. And if such a strategy brings results in a more favorable status for women, why shouldn't it work for African-Americans?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always thought it sounded like knitpresentgifts/KPG / cherf etc.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Guess who? RU one of the multiples.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Talking to yourself? Stifle.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You're most welcome. Thank you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I also consciously avoid Hobby Lobby.



Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> We are also boycotting HobbyLobby. Freakish religious Owners and against Obamacare for their Employees.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: Wholeheartedly agree!


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Avoid.

Name calling and nothing to discuss. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



knitpresentgifts said:


> I think we just discovered the first specimen!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> .


Why is it ok for you to be an idiot and wrong for me to point it out?

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please do not let KPG chase you away. You contribute so much to this group, and she is only trying to disrupt it. Be strong and ignore her. She craves attention.



miatalover66 said:


> Now that is just plain snarky and is not necessary. I am getting off this thread.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Still trying to disrupt things beast? Be gone.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You've got that right dame! No accuracy nor intelligence to be found by the POV Libs in this thread.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bullfeathers.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky has stated more than once; one color of person is welcome here on 'her' thread; black.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should hook up with Ingreid who also posts under the name Huckleberry (one person with two posting names). She lives in Missouri and is a regular poster on many threads and a Liberal.
> 
> She can easily explain to anyone who wants to know how to post with two names on KP.


Aren't you looking in the mirror? You are NOT the fairest of them all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What's the name of the store? I'd like to visit as well and have my say.
> 
> ETA: what was the name of the store


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CAUTION

I advise everyone to comment only in a general way....nothing personal and nothing that can be traced to a specific area. 
The voice of previous naïve.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always wondered why people were so concerned about someone's sexuality if they weren't planning to go to bed with them.



jelun2 said:


> So similar, isn't it, to those who claim to think that homosexuality is so evil and yet all they seem to do is think about gay men having sex.
> Heck, I don't really want to think about anyone having sex.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering...well at least she knows numbers to7>>>



knitpresentgifts said:


> Right - all five of you using seven names.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

<<<whispering...do you think an exorcism is indicated?>>



knitpresentgifts said:


> and "I went there several times ... to annoy" ... denotes the store still exists.
> 
> Before you get started, I edited my question after reading an update that the store went out of business which was posted later.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We need a priest for exorcism.



jelun2 said:


> They may have allowed her in the store, it would seem perfect match.
> serpent=evil=racism


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd love to go to sleep, but I still have a few pages to skim.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe we need to do the avatar thing to conform and make skimming over the disruptions easier. Any ideas? Labor pictures for Labor Day? Famous Liberals? 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This thread will prosper if we all commit ourselves to it. Come on MIB. You've got the right stuff.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I am feeling very pessimistic and disgusted by the last few pages of this topic, seeing the name calling and put-downs invade this topic as they have every other so-called political topic. It looks to me like there's more than one elephant in the room and all of them need to be ignored. Well, maybe not. Maybe no one can manage to "congregate in a peaceful manner". Maybe this topic has already gone down in flames just like all the others that started out so idealistically and ended up being trash cans for trash talk.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Ok, I could not stay away. I choose to not respond to the negative postings and I encourage all to do the same, If we ignore them then they will have no fuel for their fires. so good night, sleep,tight and don't let the bed bugs bite .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amen. So glad. You have the right stuff. Sleep tight.



miatalover66 said:


> Ok, I could not stay away. I choose to not respond to the negative postings and I encourage all to do the same, If we ignore them then they will have no fuel for their fires. so good night, sleep,tight and don't let the bed bugs bite .


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. Nighty night.


----------



## Pixiedust (Aug 30, 2013)

damemary said:


> Aren't you looking in the mirror? You are NOT the fairest of them all.


It seems to me that this woman has some severe mental issues. I think it would be better if we all just pretend she doesn't exist. Such a malicious person.! It is very hypocritical to behave the way she does and have a bible quote as a signature. I am a reborn Christian and I am appalled at the way she behaves. None of the Christians in my church act like that. Shame on her!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right, Pixie. I'm going to try harder to pretend she doesn't exist. Thanks for the reminder.



Pixiedust said:


> It seems to me that this woman has some severe mental issues. I think it would be better if we all just pretend she doesn't exist. Such a malicious person.! It is very hypocritical to behave the way she does and have a bible quote as a signature. I am a reborn Christian and I am appalled at the way she behaves. None of the Christians in my church act like that. Shame on her!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bullfeathers.


I agree with KPG's comment, which is unfortunately true. Many of us got emails from Cheeky regarding her race, her thread, her family......and those not like her should leave. Though I read this thread occasionally to read a different POV, I could not let a lie remain unchallenged. If you would like to see the email I received to prove that my comment is not a lame knee jerk response I can do that.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> That was fun. And they called us stooges....I just do avatars on POV that strike my fancy.


Correction - you all identified _yourselves_ as stooges - proudly too. Oh, and let's not forget when you and a majority of your Lib friends chose one of the three stooges as your avatars as well. Ah, the good ole days.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree. Personally, I think a pacifist approach hasn't worked.
> 
> Finance, investment. Lead the way.
> 
> A confident and aggressive stance led by determined, educated group will be more effective now.IMHO


Well, that leaves anyone in the current Administration of the President, the President and his cabinet out.

Who else you got?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Yes Jane, you are correct. I changed my user name in the futile attempt to avoid harassment and threats. Do you have a problem with that?


You have battered woman syndrome. You follow and fellowship with the very people who harass and threaten you (along with others) and you take up their yoke and follow suit.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Maybe we need to name a thread something that will carry no interest for them. 
something like PIP for positively intelligent people...



damemary said:


> This thread will prosper if we all commit ourselves to it. Come on MIB. You've got the right stuff.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Go sisters!
> 
> I've seen interesting career paths emerge. Technology. Engineering. Sales. Management. Investment.
> 
> Think outside the box. But many times young people have no idea these areas exist. This is an important part of education.


OMG. All the career paths you mention have existed for hundreds of years and you're just seeing them emerge now? No wonder you live in the past.

I cannot wait until you get out of your stupor and exist and function in reality.

This thread is up to discussing what happened to blacks only and the slave trade during the 1800's now though, so perhaps you'll catch up.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> CAUTION
> 
> ...


Good advice. Also, definitely DO NOT post your personal bank account #, check info and to whom written, your personal e-mail address, your place of birth, etc. as the Libs have done at one time or another. Oh vey!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Amen. So glad. You have the right stuff. Sleep tight.


'You have the *right* stuff' ... wouldn't that be against you?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Pixiedust said:


> It seems to me that this woman has some severe mental issues. I think it would be better if we all just pretend she doesn't exist. Such a malicious person.! It is very hypocritical to behave the way she does and have a bible quote as a signature. I am a reborn Christian and I am appalled at the way she behaves. None of the Christians in my church act like that. Shame on her!


Hopefully the Christians in your church don't call for exorcisms on others, call you a racist if you'd like to participate in their group discussions, call you the most vile names and phrases, threaten and bully you like all the Liberals in this thread do.

Pay close attention to the words of those Liberals in particular named BrattyPatty, CheekyBlighter and damemary for concrete examples. (I've listed their present ID names - not their past names)

I suggest you read their back posts by clicking on her name, click on her posts and read only her posts for some history before you decide where you fit in best and who you admire based on her words.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

First of all, we'd have to notify everyone privately so the newbies would know. Secondly, they always eventually find us. We've even tried Ravelry. This is as close to escape as we've come.



jelun2 said:


> Maybe we need to name a thread something that will carry no interest for them.
> something like PIP for positively intelligent people...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I agree with KPG's comment, which is unfortunately true. Many of us got emails from Cheeky regarding her race, her thread, her family......and those not like her should leave. Though I read this thread occasionally to read a different POV, I could not let a lie remain unchallenged. If you would like to see the email I received to prove that my comment is not a lame knee jerk response I can do that.


Anyone who received a private message from CheekyBlighter should post it on this thread for everyone to see and so anyone can decide for themselves to whom they wish to align.

Shall we all post the private messages we received?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Anyone who received a private message from CheekyBlighter should post it on this thread for everyone to see and so anyone can decide for themselves to whom they wish to align.
> 
> Shall we all post the private messages we received?


Would that be similar to pulling the curtain back on the Wizard of Oz?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good morning to all of good will. Enjoy the holiday and see you later.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Maybe we need to name a thread something that will carry no interest for them.
> something like PIP for positively intelligent people...


CheekyBlighter has created and lead multiple threads on KP and even had multiple exclusive groups threads on KP which she could personally monitor and delete posts that she felt not appropriate for her group membership. Search on KP for Progressive Womens Cafe and/or Chat, Progressives, L.O.L.L., etc. Also Cheeky used the names LillyK and ConanO'K but just look for her old posts and follow her avatar for the historic lines of her posts.

All of Cheeky's groups imploded (collapsed and failed by falling inward).

MaidinBedlam created an exclusive group on Ravelry which she monitored and controlled and could ban anyone from participating in her group called "The Oasis." MIB deleted herself from her group within less than two days of beginning it thereby orphaning it so it failed, yet still exists without a leader and any activity. Also her Liberal members immediately began harassing other participants who were not even part of The Oasis so the Admin staff of that website shut their activity down very quickly. You can search on that website for that failure.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Would that be similar to pulling the curtain back on the Wizard of Oz?


Call it whatever you may, I call it the facts and the truth.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Good morning to all of good will. Enjoy the holiday and see you later.


Thank you. To you as well.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I agree. Personally, I think a pacifist approach hasn't worked.
> 
> Finance, investment. Lead the way.
> 
> A confident and aggressive stance led by determined, educated group will be more effective now.IMHO


It's an interesting thought, isn't it Dame?

It would appear that one of the less-recognized consequences wrought by Jim Crow was to channel well-educated African-Americans into service-oriented careers that carried with them little financial stability or clout. People of color were forced by necessity to focus their energies on meeting the basic needs of their communities, such as teaching, nursing, the ministry, and so on. All of these services were and are absolutely essential, of course--but their practitioners garner little respect in a society which believes that money is the be all and end all of human existence.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you. To you as well.


from me too

Did you know that during a classified briefing yesterday for 80+ Congress members, that neither Obama or Biden attended? If this Syria situation is as dire as Kerry stated on Friday, why weren't they there? Why was it more important that they play golf instead of attending the briefing? If I had been one of those in Congress that attended the meeting and Obama and Biden didn't show to state their case for War, I would conclude that they were not serious. Serious about their golf swings, but not about Syria.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Good morning to all of good will. Enjoy the holiday and see you later.


damemary
Good morning. A nice day. We are going to a Union Rally. Big Event. See you later.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> Good morning. A nice day. We are going to a Union Rally. Big Event. See you later.


Terrific--what an appropriate way to spend Labor Day! Be sure to fill us in on the details when you get back.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

18% of African-Americans over the age of 25 hold college degrees, but too few of these are in the fields of physics, mathematics, history, engineering, and foreign languages. Encouraging young African-Americans to enter into these fields of study--well-established paths into more lucrative and influential professions--would no doubt do a lot to combat the racism still so much a part of American society.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> 18% of African-Americans over the age of 25 hold college degrees, but too few of these are in the fields of physics, mathematics, history, engineering, and foreign languages. Encouraging young African-Americans to enter into these fields of study--well-established paths into more lucrative and influential professions--would no doubt do a lot to combat the racism still so much a part of American society.


susanmos2000
all good things develop slowly. It will change once jobs become available again. People build on that. They find a job they like and expand their formal education in that field.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Why are you so interested in fields of study that are lucrative to combat racism?
> 
> I would say the most influential profession (not lucrative) would be that of a teacher. They are the ones who mold the minds of children.


Because in our society, money talks.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> 18% of African-Americans over the age of 25 hold college degrees, but too few of these are in the fields of physics, mathematics, history, engineering, and foreign languages. Encouraging young African-Americans to enter into these fields of study--well-established paths into more lucrative and influential professions--would no doubt do a lot to combat the racism still so much a part of American society.


I do not disagree in principal, but women have made inroads in most of these professions (engineering is the least gender diverse) and cultural and societal regard and respect of women is at a real low right now. Huge increase in porn and rape.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why are you so interested in fields of study that are lucrative to combat racism?
> 
> I would say the most influential profession (not lucrative) would be that of a teacher. They are the ones who mold the minds of children.


It can be very influential, but the teaching profession is not a hot bed of progressivism. When I taught I heard an incredible amount of bigotry and sexism in the teacher's lounge.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> all good things develop slowly. It will change once jobs become available again. People build on that. They find a job they like and expand their formal education in that field.


Yep, that's what I did. I decided I liked physics and since it pays a living wage I expanded my formal education in that field. Yet, I didn't take the slow train, I took the accelerated path.

Still, I wonder, though if McDonalds or Walmart will ever hire me.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> all good things develop slowly. It will change once jobs become available again. People build on that. They find a job they like and expand their formal education in that field.


That's true, but women with college degrees traditionally choose fields such as teaching and other service-oriented professions--and 2/3 of the degree-holders in African-American society are female. It might all come down to the very real fact that not enough African-American men are obtaining college degrees. If this were to change there would no doubt be many more math and science degrees among members of the African-American community.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not disagree in principal, but women have made inroads in most of these professions (engineering is the least gender diverse) and cultural and societal regard and respect of women is at a real low right now. Huge increase in porn and rape.


That's true, Peacegoddess. I think it's at best a mixed blessing that so many African-American families are headed by women. I in no way advocate encouraging these families to return to the patriarchal "norms" of American society, but single-parent women of all colors struggle to make ends meet. Women's labor has always been undervalued and underpaid, unfortunately.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Is it only money that combats racism?


No--but it's a very useful and extremely effective tool. Even in the days of Jim Crow white store owners could generally put aside their bigoted beliefs long enough to serve African-American customers.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

May I join this discussion please.
The very first black Man I met was a Pharmacist who spoke
3 languages. The first college educated person in the history of his family. A white Teacher had pushed him and fought for him for grants to attend college.
His family resented him because they felt that he now was joining the people who had treated blacks horribly. All that has gone away and others have joined his path.
They initially thought that he wanted to be a whitie.
He is married to a black Doctor. They have 3 Sons, all Lawyers.
They have children and all are in College.
This example magnifies how important it is for people to get a helping hand and how one person can make such a difference in the life of others. 
Seldom can success be achieved without assstance.
We must be our Brother's Keeper.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> This thread will prosper if we all commit ourselves to it. Come on MIB. You've got the right stuff.


 I truly hope you are right. I'm still disgusted and pessimistic. Thank goodness I leave soon for an overnight campout that will include a lot of good food, walking around in a beautiful place, skinny dipping, and happy, sappy, idealistic, humorous, wild disscussion around a cozy campfire. All of that plus a little veritas in vino about the real world, and a good night's sleep under the stars are just the thing to recharge one's batteries and get back to feeling positive and idealistic again.

I actually know people who can disagree, argue in the craziest terms and in the very worst bad language and still not insult each other personally, and end up laughing in the end. If there are people like my friends in the real world, surely there are people like them here.

If I have the right stuff, as you say above, then you and all our liberal sisters do, too. It's so easy to slam the nut jobs, but I think the many participants who generally agree with each other can drop the trash talk despite the huge temptations. It isnt always easy but so what? Its well worth the effort to help realize the great potential of this topic.

CHEEKY'S DONE A GREAT THING BY CREATING THIS TOPIC. WE CAN, AT THE VERY LEAST, REWARD HER EFFORTS BY KEEPING THIS THE KIND OF PLACE SHE INTENDED IT TO BE.

Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? If so, why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use? Why post even the simplest trash, the word ignore, when ignoring a post is the best thing to do? Even that one word inflames the very people who ought to be ignored. Ill bet we can ignore what ought to be ignored without pointing out that it should be ignored.

Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> May I join this discussion please.
> The very first black Man I met was a Pharmacist who spoke
> 3 languages. The first college educated person in the history of his family. A white Teacher had pushed him and fought for him for grants to attend college.
> His family resented him because they felt that he now was joining the people who had treated blacks horribly. All that has gone away and others have joined his path.
> ...


Absolutely, Ingried. Lending a helping hand, mentoring others--all these can make a huge difference in a young person's life.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I truly hope you are right. I'm still disgusted and pessimistic. Thank goodness I leave soon for an overnight campout that will include a lot of good food, walking around in a beautiful place, skinny dipping, and happy, sappy, idealistic, humorous, wild disscussion around a cozy campfire. All of that plus a little veritas in vino about the real world, and a good night's sleep under the stars are just the thing to recharge one's batteries and get back to feeling positive and idealistic again.
> 
> I actually know people who can disagree, argue in the craziest terms and in the very worst bad language and still not insult each other personally, and end up laughing in the end. If there are people like my friends in the real world, surely there are people like them here.
> 
> ...


Stay up on the soapbox, Maid--you're merely stating the truth. We all need to hear it as many times as it takes to sink in.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Nobody here ever spoke ill of Native Americans. She herself diminished them by acknowledging initially that she is only about 10% NA but now claims otherwise. What is wrong with her? Sorry, we know, do not need an answer to that.


You keep saying that I'm not full blooded American Indian for your own sick, sick mind just to slur me so stop it now or I will report you to Admin for discrimination about my race. You are a very, very hateful person who does not belong on KP.

Zip it!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, that's what I did. I decided I liked physics and since it pays a living wage I expanded my formal education in that field. Yet, I didn't take the slow train, I took the accelerated path.
> 
> Still, I wonder, though if McDonalds or Walmart will ever hire me.


Your humility continues to inspire me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Stay up on the soapbox, Maid--you're merely stating the truth. We all need to hear it as many times as it takes to sink in.


OK, but you might be giving me permission to repeat myself way too often. Just what I need, another temptation to resist. LOL. :mrgreen: :thumbup: :twisted: Thanks, Susan, for the encouraging words.

Between my long post and your kind response two people tempted me to repeat that long post.   I resisted. I am trying to save the big guns for bigger deals that the two I could have responded to.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, but you might be giving me permission to repeat myself way too often. Just what I need, another temptation to resist. LOL. :mrgreen: :thumbup: :twisted: Thanks, Susan, for the encouraging words.
> .


No problem, Maid. Your camping trip sounds wonderful--bring me back a marshmallow!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> We are also boycotting HobbyLobby. Freakish religious Owners and against Obamacare for their Employees.


Why are you doing this as there are employees who need those jobs as there aren't a lot of jobs already so you think just because they are closed on Sunday to allow their employees to attend churches of their choice?

Lots of business do not like Obo so that is not a reason to boycott them as after awhile, there won't be any businesses or jobs.

Business have the right to close for religious reasons as even our local "y" closes until after church on Sundays because they are "built" on religion.

Hobby Lobby is one if my favorite stores & I will continue to shop there when there is something I need.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Cheeky has stated more than once; one color of person is welcome here on 'her' thread; black.


You are correct as Huck continues to slam me by saying her lies that I'm only 10% American Indian. I'm tired of her continually slamming me about my race.

Talk about Racism--this thread is full of it as they do not want anyone except the ******* Race to post here. They even deny being anything but "black" not ******* Race which is the correct name.

Admin should close this thread as it is full of people who just want to "stir" up trouble within the black people.

Where is the outrage when things are reversed & blacks kill other races? It does not exist on this thread.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Lies, lies, lies. Keep making a fool of yourself. The new ladies are getting quite a laugh at you.


We are still laughing at you for all of your foolish lies on any thread you post. We laugh at your ignorance constantly.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Why are you doing this as there are employees who need those jobs as there aren't a lot of jobs already so you think just because they are closed on Sunday to allow their employees to attend churches of their choice?
> 
> Lots of business do not like Obo so that is not a reason to boycott them as after awhile, there won't be any businesses or jobs.
> 
> ...


People who believe in boycotts do so because we do not want to spend our money in a store or business that does not support our moral view.

Would you patronize a business that discriminated against Native Americans?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You are correct as Huck continues to slam me by saying her lies that I'm only 10% American Indian. I'm tired of her continually slamming me about my race.
> 
> Talk about Racism--this thread is full of it as they do not want anyone except the ******* Race to post here. They even deny being anything but "black" not ******* Race which is the correct name.
> Where is the outrage when things are reversed & blacks kill other races?
> ...


Janeway, the term ******* has been out of common usage for decades. Just as many Native Americans prefer the designation of Native American, so do most black people prefer the designation black or African American. It is an issue of respect. 
Perhaps you as an individual do not prefer Native American (I do not know).


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> People who believe in boycotts do so because we do not want to spend our money in a store or business that does not support our moral view.


So true, peacegoddess--we are free to spend or withhold our money as we please. The Montgomery bus boycott showed how powerful this basic right is.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> You are correct as Huck continues to slam me by saying her lies that I'm only 10% American Indian. I'm tired of her continually slamming me about my race.
> 
> Talk about Racism--this thread is full of it as they do not want anyone except the ******* Race to post here. They even deny being anything but "black" not ******* Race which is the correct name.
> 
> Admin should close this thread as it is full of people who just want to "stir" up trouble within the black people.Where is the outrage when things are reversed & blacks kill other races? It does not exist on this thread.


Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? Why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use? Why post even the simplest trash, the word ignore, when ignoring a post is the best thing to do? Even that one word inflames the very people who ought to be ignored. Ill bet we can ignore what ought to be ignored without pointing out that it should be ignored.

Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> We are still laughing at you for all of your foolish lies on any thread you post. We laugh at your ignorance constantly.


Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? Why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use? Why post even the simplest trash, the word ignore, when ignoring a post is the best thing to do? Even that one word inflames the very people who ought to be ignored. Ill bet we can ignore what ought to be ignored without pointing out that it should be ignored.

Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Stifle. You are not here for objective discussion and you persist in disrupting others. Try Charm School.


Damemary you may have hit upon something. I haven't heard charm school mentioned for years but maybe they still have them. It would a good place for her to learn the social graces so she can interact in a pleasant manner with others. :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

> damemary wrote: Stifle. You are not here for objective discussion and you persist in disrupting others. Try Charm School.


Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? Why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use? Why post even the simplest trash, the word ignore, when ignoring a post is the best thing to do? Even that one word inflames the very people who ought to be ignored. Ill bet we can ignore what ought to be ignored without pointing out that it should be ignored.

Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I am feeling very pessimistic and disgusted by the last few pages of this topic, seeing the name calling and put-downs invade this topic as they have every other so-called political topic. It looks to me like there's more than one elephant in the room and all of them need to be ignored. Well, maybe not. Maybe no one can manage to "congregate in a peaceful manner". Maybe this topic has already gone down in flames just like all the others that started out so idealistically and ended up being trash cans for trash talk.


Don't be discouraged MIB. You know who is trying to destroy this thread and it is like having the proverbial elephant in the room. I have lost all respect for this person who I used to fight with and she brought out the worst in me. All I learned was I can only take responsibility for myself and change my own behavior and no one else's. You know who many of the people are here and you see how many new people have joined us and what a pleasant environment we have created together. Once again the same little group cannot leave us alone in their attempt to destroy this one thread. We can ignore them or throw in the towel. I am ignoring them as are most others. Sometimes they get so rude some people snap back and I understand that but then they stop and think and realize we have been through all of this before. You know the history as well as I do. I would ask you to try to look at all the positives and the fum we have been having and don't throw in the towel. This is our spot and they have many other places to post. As a woman who has been involved in civil rights activities and other liberal activities you know we can never give in. Ultimately, it is your decision but I hope you decide to stay and just ignore the folks who come here just to destroy this place. I am aware that there are a couple of ladies from the right who are posting here with self respect and with respect for us and they are welcome to do so as long as discussions do not become heated or personal. This is a home for liberals and like all homes we should be able to be safe and undisturbed. The right has a home base called Denim & Pearls that I never post on and will not as that is their home. I am showing my respect for them by not doing so and it would be a show of good faith on their part to stay off of this thread which is our home. We can't make everyone "love" us and we shouldn't try but we can be respectful and that is how I am trying to conduct myself. No more down and dirty fighting. It accomplishes nothing. You make your own decision. None of us can serve two masters can we?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are mistaken. The teaching profession is almost all progressive. (NEA). There are very few conservatives. So most in teaching are progressive and it is full of bigotry and sexism, what does that say for the progressives?
> 
> What better place to start, then, is training the teachers.
> 
> I have been in the public school system more than 24 years. I did not see racism, bigotry, or sexism. But they were very progressive, courteous, and respectful.


Then we have a distinctly different ideas of what is progressive. I would say the NEA is liberal at best.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Don't be discouraged MIB. You know who is trying to destroy this thread and it is like having the proverbial elephant in the room. I have lost all respect for this person who I used to fight with and she brought out the worst in me. All I learned was I can only take responsibility for myself and change my own behavior and no one else's. You know who many of the people are here and you see how many new people have joined us and what a pleasant environment we have created together. Once again the same little group cannot leave us alone in their attempt to destroy this one thread. We can ignore them or throw in the towel. I am ignoring them as are most others. Sometimes they get so rude some people snap back and I understand that but then they stop and think and realize we have been through all of this before. You know the history as well as I do. I would ask you to try to look at all the positives and the fum we have been having and don't throw in the towel. This is our spot and they have many other places to post. As a woman who has been involved in civil rights activities and other liberal activities you know we can never give in. Ultimately, it is your decision but I hope you decide to stay and just ignore the folks who come here just to destroy this place. I am aware that there are a couple of ladies from the right who are posting here with self respect and with respect us and they are welcome to do so. This is a home for liberals and like all homes we should be able to be safe and undisturbed. The right has a home base called Denim & Pearls that I never post on and will not as that is their home. I am showing my respect for them by not doing so and it would be a show of good faith on their part to stay off of this thread which is our home. We can't make everyone "love" us and we shouldn't try but we can be respectful and that is how I am trying to conduct myself. No more down and dirty fighting. It accomplishes nothing. You make your own decision. None of us can serve two masters can we?


I agree wholeheartedly


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Ok, I could not stay away. I choose to not respond to the negative postings and I encourage all to do the same, If we ignore them then they will have no fuel for their fires. so good night, sleep,tight and don't let the bed bugs bite .


Good for you miatalover and damemary. MIB are you with us?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Pixiedust said:


> It seems to me that this woman has some severe mental issues. I think it would be better if we all just pretend she doesn't exist. Such a malicious person.! It is very hypocritical to behave the way she does and have a bible quote as a signature. I am a reborn Christian and I am appalled at the way she behaves. None of the Christians in my church act like that. Shame on her!


Thank you for pointing that out. Most Christians I know are very good people and don't carry on at all like that. They don't need to "wear their religion on their sleeve". They show they are good people by how they interact with them. That's where the proof is.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Then we have a distinctly different ideas of what is progressive. I would say the NEA is liberal at best.


I've never thought of the NEA as liberal or progressive.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Thanks for your input, MIB! You've said only what needs to be said. Thank you.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I've never thought of the NEA as liberal or progressive.


They make recommendations on legislative issues and endorse state and national candidates.

As usual anyone to the right of Emma Goldman and left of Elizabeth Dole is liberal to me. (A very broad spectrum)


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

miatalover66 wrote:
Ok, I could not stay away. I choose to not respond to the negative postings and I encourage all to do the same, If we ignore them then they will have no fuel for their fires. so good night, sleep,tight and don't let the bed bugs bite 
**************
Good for you miatalover and damemary. MIB are you with us?
**************
That's the ticket! So glad to have met you all out here in the electronic universe! Glad you are staying aboard Miatalover66, for I have found your postings very interesting.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Isn't Burma now Myanmar?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Please state your definitions of liberal and progressive, so I will know your thinking.


Obama is a centrist liberal. I have not voted Democrat for decades. Is that enough of a clue?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I agree with KPG's comment, which is unfortunately true. Many of us got emails from Cheeky regarding her race, her thread, her family......and those not like her should leave. Though I read this thread occasionally to read a different POV, I could not let a lie remain unchallenged. If you would like to see the email I received to prove that my comment is not a lame knee jerk response I can do that.


I have nothing to hide lovethelake. I sent three PM's one to you, Janeway and KPG. That is not "many of you". So you are lying. Post yours out here as KPG did if it you want to. I said nothing I haven't already said before and Jane can post her's too. You only make yourselves look foolish. I asked you all privately to cease and desist so as not to embarrass each of you on this thread. None of you have stopped your posting here. You appear as foolish raving maniacs who have no self respect or respect for anyone else by doing so. As you know I do not post on Denim and Pearls out of respect for your "conservative home thread". What other Liberals do on KP is their own business. I am responsible for only my own actions. Here you are again making a spectacle of yourself. Also, you told us a couple days ago that KPG would apologize for the lie she told about Republicans not being invited to participate in the MLK celebration in Washington. Where is the apology? I know for a fact that all of you lie repeatedly but I am too busy learning and having fun with my Liberal friends to be bothered with that childs play that KPG spends endless hours on to amuse herself. I have not lied and I also posted on this thread that I used to get down and dirty myself and as nasty as the rest but it got me nowhere and made me wake up and see how pointless and stupid it was to fight with people who hate me and only want to destroy me and everything that I represent to them. Funny thing is none of you even know me. Yes, it is also a fact that some of us actually have met each other as we said we did and are hoping that we can do it again and even more Ladies are hoping to join us. We are "for real". KPG can continue to drag out all my old posts that she wants but I have nothing to hide and when you don't tell lies and have nothing to hide you have "TRUTH" on your side so I have claimed this thread as the higher ground and asked all Liberals who post here to stay on that plain and if they must say something negative then do it elsewhere on another political thread. Sometimes your nasty manners push some of us too far and we respond in anger but then we step back and laugh at ourselves and say we have been down that road before with these folks and we ain't going down that road no more! You have several places to post your political views. Don't you get it? We are done fighting with you. Do we need to sign a peace treaty before you understand? I am shaking my head and smiling and wondering why you folks haven't figured this out so I will ask you once again my friend. Go home to the open arms of D & P and where ever else you post and do the truly good turn and leave us alone. Thank you and have a wonderful Labor Day weekend!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Isn't Burma now Myanmar?


This explains the change.

Everyone can agree that it was Burma up until 1989, when the military junta enacted the Adaptation of Expression Law. This decreed English transliteration changes of geographic locations, including Burma becoming Myanmar and the capital Rangoon becoming Yangon.
However, because not all nations recognize the country's current military leadership, not all recognize the name change. The United Nations uses Myanmar, defaulting to the nomenclature wishes of the country's rulers, but the United States and the United Kingdom do not recognize the junta and thus still call the country Burma.

So use of Burma can indicate non-recognition for the military junta, use of Myanmar can indicate a distaste for the colonial powers past who called the country Burma, and interchangeable use of both can indicate no particular preference. Media organizations will often use Burma because their readers or viewers better recognize that and cities such as Rangoon, but not as easily recognize the junta's nomenclature.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Uh huh, just look at the way a life choice such as community organizer is maligned. Is that because most community organizing is done by females on a volunteer or P/T basis?
It is a sad kind of funny that the same people who see little honor in lifting up a community such as Chicago through community organizing then point to Chicago as a city that needs organizing throughout the full community. 
Perhaps through ignorance of what community organizing does and accomplishes. 
I think that you are absolutely correct that if a person's focus is to give back to the locale that supported and benefited that person the financial rewards are likely to be few. And there is a consistent plea out to those who focus on making those generous paychecks to give a pittance to support those programs that provide the "sweat equity". 
Is that an uneasy but necessary partnership?



susanmos2000 said:


> It's an interesting thought, isn't it Dame?
> 
> It would appear that one of the less-recognized consequences wrought by Jim Crow was to channel well-educated African-Americans into service-oriented careers that carried with them little financial stability or clout. People of color were forced by necessity to focus their energies on meeting the basic needs of their communities, such as teaching, nursing, the ministry, and so on. All of these services were and are absolutely essential, of course--but their practitioners garner little respect in a society which believes that money is the be all and end all of human existence.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Maybe we need to name a thread something that will carry no interest for them.
> something like PIP for positively intelligent people...


jelun- They are a lost cause and hopefully they will lose interest but until that day we just need to try to ignore them and step around them. They can't see how others perceive them. If they did they would be embarrassed and leave but I don't think anything embarrasses them either.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I might agree with you so far as his heart goes, no self respecting liberal would have handed over health care to private industry so easily.



peacegoddess said:


> Obama is a centrist liberal. I have not voted Democrat for decades. Is that enough of a clue?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I will agree with you. A Piece of trash.


joey since you consider this a "piece of trash" I am sure you will not want to post here any longer. You might catch a Liberal "disease". I was mistaken as I thought you were one of the sensible ones but I was wrong. I guess this is good bye.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Great explanation, Peacegoddess. Very clear and concise.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Good morning to all of good will. Enjoy the holiday and see you later.


See you later Damemary. Have a nice day!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama is not a centrist, Bill Clinton was much closer to the center, anyway he was in his last 6 years. So is a progressive center right? But, I have not seen that here on this thread from those that call themselves progressives.


I have many liberal friends who just see me as their leftie barometer. Neither do I categorize most on this thread as progressive, but I still enjoy reading and interacting with everyone.

The progressives I read, listen to, and have as friends did not vote for Obama and consider him a nice enough guy, but not politically left and certainly not even close to socialist as the conservatives like to designate him.

How do you account for his embracing Wall Street bankers in these financially tumultuous times? He has a crap record on the environment (advocating new nuclear plants, not making a decision on the Tar Sands issue, endorsing fracking to name a few) His continued support if ICE, his stance on the Snowden revelations. I could go on endlessly, but won't.

I realize I just threw out a large ball and now have to leave to go home and not have internet communication. Back in a week or so and look forward to catching up.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Great explanation, Peacegoddess. Very clear and concise.


I just copied it from a post. They explained it pretty well huh?


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Happy travels, Peacegoddess!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Obama is a centrist liberal. I have not voted Democrat for decades. Is that enough of a clue?


I don't see Obama as a liberal at all. He's a centrist, in my opinion.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

You are so right jelun2. The people on Fox for instance love to degrade minorities, unmarried single parent households, absent fathers, crime, etc. But when someone is working to make things better, like President Obama as a community organizer, they belittle that too. I wish I could find the link to a statement O'Rilley made about going to a concert, I believe it was Aretha Franklin, and how all the black people sat and listened and enjoyed the concert. They didn't trash talk and or disrupt and he was suprised by that. He also went to a mostly black resturant and again the people were civil, didn't throw food, respected the rest of the diners by not talking loud and yelling. I think he needs to come down out of his ivory tower more often. He sits on TV and is so critical about people he really knows nothing about. He believes what others have told him and has no qualms about passing it on as truth. The whole fox station is like that. It is so rare for one of them to apologize that when O'Reilly did, it really made the news.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I might agree with you so far as his heart goes, no self respecting liberal would have handed over health care to private industry so easily.


Absolutely agree, Jelun.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So use of Burma can indicate non-recognition for the military junta, use of Myanmar can indicate a distaste for the colonial powers past who called the country Burma...


..or just an innate distaste for the clashing consonants in the word "Myanmar". Who comes up with these tongue twisters? My SIL and her family refer to themselves as Burmese, which is fortunate--the ethnic tag "Myanmarish" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I keep forgetting to ask if you all are familiar with

http://www.bettybowers.com/

It is quite a hoot. 
Please pass it by if you are not irreverent about religion.

And then for a little more rational look at how to improve the quality of our lives brought to us by Alexandra Rosas through Purple Clover.

Twenty-five years ago, I held my grandmother's hand as she passed away. Two and half weeks ago, it was my mother's hand that I held as she left our world.

I was there for the last days of life with both my mother and grandmother, and in our time together, they spoke of things with a sadness and urgency that they never had before.

Theres an old photo I have of my mother, which Ive always loved. In it, shes a young, sharply dressed working woman in South America, and you can feel the determination in her stride. I showed her this photo just a few weeks ago, and you could've heard the pride in my voice as I asked if she remembered where she was going on the day it was taken.

"I have always hated that picture," she said, which startled me. "I was always in a hurry. Hurrying. Always. For what?" She took a deep breath, and gently said it one more time, "Always in a hurry ...."

What left me astonished and teary-eyed was not the surprise of her hating the picture, but that these words were exactly the ones my grandmother had spoken to me on the morning of her own passing. I had been sitting vigil at her bedside and she was growing weaker with each day in the hospital. Stroking her hand, I spoke softly to her, "Abuela. Abuela, do you hear me? Remember when you would take us to the grocery store across the street from our house at the start of every summer, and you began our first day of vacation with a popsicle?"

Smiling, with her eyes still closed, she quietly answered, "I would tell you all to hurry, make your flavor choices, and to hurry. There was much to do. I would let you take your time choosing now, if I could. Things could have waited."

What the dying want us to do  and wish for us to know  is to regard our lives as precious moments making up our days. They want us to focus less on the big picture of building a large body of evidence that proves our accomplishments, and more on the true wonders in our life  the kind where we find unexpected beauty that will be remembered with a wistful smile.

Like walking with your child alongside you, going somewhere without purpose. Or waiting patiently while five- and six-year-old children choose, change their minds, choose, and then change their minds again, about the root-beer-flavored or the banana-flavored popsicles.

My mother and grandmother were telling me loud and clear that as we live our lives, we have to stop running and chasing what we think leads to happiness, and slow down before we rush past the very thing we'll wish we had more of at the very last hours of our days.

It's not too late to make sweet memories of children or grandchildren skipping alongside us, of us just being and not doing, of grateful children looking up to us smiling with orange-stained mouths, yelling excitedly, "Thank you for waiting for me until I picked my flavor, Grandma! I didn't know if I wanted the green or the orange!"

After hearing these words  not once, but twice  from loved ones who know everything they are about to leave behind, I know this is something I'll be working on to change.

And I'm forever grateful for the second chance.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

This Robert Reich video is well worth watching.

http://front.moveon.org/how-workers-can-get-a-fair-shake-a-labor-day-message-from-robert-reich/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Beautiful, jelun. Thank you for sharing Rosas' words of wisdom with us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

books said:


> I am envious of all of you, I'm too young to have seen that speech so for me it is something to be studied in history books. But I agree, we're moving in a poaitive direction, I was thrilled when Obama was elected twice. I'm so sick of this country being ruled by old, rich, white men. Time for diversity- looking forward to the time when gender, and sexual orientation won't matter as well.


books
Welcome. I not only think, I KNOW that you, the Young, will shed most of the attitudes past generations of my race, white, have carried over and over and you will see to it that the World, truly the whole World, will become a much more humane place. It takes the Young to bring about change and you can do it. Hope that you can enlist some of your Peers to at least look in on this craziness here to get a feeling of what you are up against. Don't forget, Life is not eternal. We old(er) folks won't be around too long. The future is yours, grab it.
Huckleberry


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Isn't Burma now Myanmar?


midwegian
Yes it is.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> You are so right jelun2. The people on Fox for instance love to degrade minorities, unmarried single parent households, absent fathers, crime, etc. But when someone is working to make things better, like President Obama as a community organizer, they belittle that too. I wish I could find the link to a statement O'Rilley made about going to a concert, I believe it was Aretha Franklin, and how all the black people sat and listened and enjoyed the concert. They didn't trash talk and or disrupt and he was suprised by that. He also went to a mostly black resturant and again the people were civil, didn't throw food, respected the rest of the diners by not talking loud and yelling. I think he needs to come down out of his ivory tower more often. He sits on TV and is so critical about people he really knows nothing about. He believes what others have told him and has no qualms about passing it on as truth. The whole fox station is like that. It is so rare for one of them to apologize that when O'Reilly did, it really made the news.


I am not so sure that I look at O'Reilly's comments in a positive light.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/life/people/2007-09-25-oreilly-restaurant_N.htm

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/20979043/ns/us_news-life/t/liberal-group-blasts-oreillys-racial-comment/

He is indeed a flaming (my grandson's term) rip in the bum.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 18% of African-Americans over the age of 25 hold college degrees, but too few of these are in the fields of physics, mathematics, history, engineering, and foreign languages. Encouraging young African-Americans to enter into these fields of study--well-established paths into more lucrative and influential professions--would no doubt do a lot to combat the racism still so much a part of American society.


Susan I know you are much younger than me so I see this from a little different perspective than you do. I was inducted into National Honor Society as a junior in high school and graduated in the top 1.0% in the nation. This was back in the 1960's. Even though I was tops in the nation the high school and college advisors back in those days directed college bound women towards majors where you "assisted" males and did not compete with them. The top choices were teachers, social workers, nurses, variety of therapists etc. and civil service positions which were all 2nd class status "jobs". If you were interested in business it was suggested you go to a good business college. Women did not need the classes that men did who wanted a business career. The main objective was to go to a good school and find a husband to marry and who would support you and a family. Women didn't have "careers". Men did. It was frowned upon to even aspire to have a profession. Some women who were born into families who had parents that were professionals themselves did start encouraging their daughters right along with sons to have a profession "just in case" not to actually go out and work and so they could engage in " intellectual" conversation. Even well educated women understood their place was in the home. We were decorative at best. With the women's movement women said to hell with this and we can do anything and everything a man can do and better and they aren't going to holds us back any more. As you know most women are still being held back and paid less than men and not breaking into enough boardrooms or high political office. I followed the norm and got my B.S. degree graduating with honors and ended up getting married. I broke a lot of barriers myself mainly because I was stubborn and believed I could. I could have and should have accomplished much more. Women were also supposed to be modest and not brag about their accomplishments as men could. I continue learning and advancing the cause of peace, saving the earth, women, unions, minorities and the GLBT community. I know at this point in my life am able to own my failures and my accomplishments. My priorities sometimes shift depending on what is currently the most pressing issue for me. Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.

AKA Saintly

Ha ha ha ha ha! That's me laughing with you not at you MIB and it feels real good in my belly! "Ain't going to let nobody turn us around."


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan I know you are much younger than me so I see this from a little different perspective than you do. I was inducted into National Honor Society as a junior in high school and graduated in the top 1.0% in the nation. This was back in the 1960's. Even though I was tops in the nation the high school and college advisors back in those days directed college bound women towards majors where you "assisted" males and did not compete with them. The top choices were teachers, social workers, nurses, variety of therapists etc. and civil service positions which were all 2nd class status "jobs". If you were interested in business it was suggested you go to a good business college. Women did not need the classes that men did who wanted a business career. The main objective was to go to a good school and find a husband to marry and who would support you and a family. Women didn't have "careers". Men did. It was frowned upon to even aspire to have a profession. Some women who were born into families who had parents that were professionals themselves did start encouraging their daughters right along with sons to have a profession "just in case" not to actually go out and work and so they could engage in " intellectual" conversation. Even well educated women understood their place was in the home. We were decorative at best. With the women's movement women said to hell with this and we can do anything and everything a man can do and better and they aren't going to holds us back any more. As you know most women are still being held back and paid less than men and not breaking into enough boardrooms or high political office. I followed the norm and got my B.S. degree graduating with honors and ended up getting married. I broke a lot of barriers myself mainly because I was stubborn and believed I could. I could have and should have accomplished much more. Women were also supposed to be modest and not brag about their accomplishments as men could. I continue learning and advancing the cause of peace, saving the earth, women, unions, minorities and the GLBT community. I know at this point in my life am able to own my failures and my accomplishments. My priorities sometimes shift depending on what is currently the most pressing issue for me. Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.


It's true, Cheeky--the difficulties and issues women face on the road to true equality do bear an uncanny resemblance to those African-Americans struggle with. I do feel that there have been positive changes for the better (particularly in the last few decades), but the whole process is so slow. It's maddening to run into racist attitudes and behavior that should have faded into the past by now.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I cannot speak to the rapist demographic, however, porn is utilized in extremely regressive areas of our nation. 
I am not so sure that regard is really low or if those who have little respect are really noisy.On the other hand, since we are greater than half of the population why the heck are we only making inroads?



peacegoddess said:


> I do not disagree in principal, but women have made inroads in most of these professions (engineering is the least gender diverse) and cultural and societal regard and respect of women is at a real low right now. Huge increase in porn and rape.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I just want to tag along here, interrupt, whatever...
and say to Cheekie that the only failure is in not trying.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You keep saying that I'm not full blooded American Indian for your own sick, sick mind just to slur me so stop it now or I will report you to Admin for discrimination about my race. You are a very, very hateful person who does not belong on KP.
> 
> Zip it!


Janeway
I only know what you said and here your postings dear Lady: 
GGD = Great Grand Dad
6-4-2012 GGD married Cherokee
6-4-2012 GGD full blooded Irish

still want to threaten me? Would not be smart.
It is not my habit to go into old stuff but you kept pushing me to do so.
Now you zip your lies regarding others or I reveal more.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for your thoughtful message, Cheeky. Yes, we each have to take responsibility for our actions, but I think this may also be one of those times when the old saying "United we stand, divided we fall." is what should guide us. I think that's the best advice I can manage to give, because I don't want to leave and I don't want to buy into the trash that ends up here sometimes, and none of us can fully ignore what we must ignore without being united in that purpose IMHO.

The fact that there are so many new voices here is wonderful. Let's let them see us old veterans stand together. Ain't technology grand? I'm sitting under a tree waiting for a burger and enjoying the wonders of wifi. I'm not trying to serve two masters, I want the best of all possible worlds, all the time, everywhere, with everyone. Once again my idealism is working way overtime. Just think how much harder it will be working once I've had a good lunch... :thumbup:

I'll say this just once more and hope for the best. UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Don't be discouraged MIB. You know who is trying to destroy this thread and it is like having the proverbial elephant in the room. I have lost all respect for this person who I used to fight with and she brought out the worst in me. All I learned was I can only take responsibility for myself and change my own behavior and no one else's. You know who many of the people are here and you see how many new people have joined us and what a pleasant environment we have created together. Once again the same little group cannot leave us alone in their attempt to destroy this one thread. We can ignore them or throw in the towel. I am ignoring them as are most others. Sometimes they get so rude some people snap back and I understand that but then they stop and think and realize we have been through all of this before. You know the history as well as I do. I would ask you to try to look at all the positives and the fum we have been having and don't throw in the towel. This is our spot and they have many other places to post. As a woman who has been involved in civil rights activities and other liberal activities you know we can never give in. Ultimately, it is your decision but I hope you decide to stay and just ignore the folks who come here just to destroy this place. I am aware that there are a couple of ladies from the right who are posting here with self respect and with respect for us and they are welcome to do so as long as discussions do not become heated or personal. This is a home for liberals and like all homes we should be able to be safe and undisturbed. The right has a home base called Denim & Pearls that I never post on and will not as that is their home. I am showing my respect for them by not doing so and it would be a show of good faith on their part to stay off of this thread which is our home. We can't make everyone "love" us and we shouldn't try but we can be respectful and that is how I am trying to conduct myself. No more down and dirty fighting. It accomplishes nothing. You make your own decision. None of us can serve two masters can we?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

After hearing these words  not once, but twice  from loved ones who know everything they are about to leave behind, I know this is something I'll be working on to change.

And I'm forever grateful for the second chance.

"Our journey is not complete..."

Jelun- Thank you so much for sharing your beautiful story. It is what the Buddha teaches us to not live in the past, we cannot change it, not look to the future because it may never come but to live in the moment as that is all we really have and we should awaken to the experience and treasure it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Thanks jelun2 for those links. I had tried to find them before and didn't have any luck so didn't look again. No I don't see his remarks in a positive light either. The fact that he believed the opposite of what he actually saw is rather scary I think there are too many people in this country that feel the same way, out of ignorance. They see something on tv or hear something and believe it as the truth and pass it on. I think too many people tend to paint things with a broad brush.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Labor Day Union Rally report:
wonderful, comfortable day.
Attendance bigger than ever. Atmosphere among the people extremely positive and forward looking. Nothing can stop us once we decide what we need to do was voiced over and over again. 
TOGETHER WE CAN - UNITED WE STAND.
I have never been a Union Member but have learned about their value and support their cause. So glad I went to be with them. Such positive surroundings are invigorating. 

Onward Union Soldiers fight for Worker's cause
Let no-one deter you
No time now for pause


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Labor Day Union Rally report:
> wonderful, comfortable day.
> Attendance bigger than ever. Atmosphere among the people extremely positive and forward looking. Nothing can stop us once we decide what we need to do was voiced over and over again.
> TOGETHER WE CAN - UNITED WE STAND.
> ...


Very inspiring, Huck. Here's a little something I learned today:

http://www.upworthy.com/remember-these-facts-the-next-time-you-sleep-in-on-a-saturday-2?c=upw1


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Labor Day Union Rally report:
> wonderful, comfortable day.
> Attendance bigger than ever. Atmosphere among the people extremely positive and forward looking. Nothing can stop us once we decide what we need to do was voiced over and over again.
> TOGETHER WE CAN - UNITED WE STAND.
> ...


Great to hear, Huckleberry. 
On NPR this morning they were promoting a discussion of the need for unions, the apathy on the part of the young, and how to organize. 
It seems to me that unions should be fulfilling some of the very needs that we talk about here. 
A union would be the perfect vehicle for people to work together to improve their communities. It is a great way for those who are not interested in working through religious organizations or for activities outside the purview (good thing I looked that up) of religious settings.

The same old problem occurs every time, though. The leadership doesn't know how to give up any control and rather than put themselves at the disposal of the rank and file they have to control everything. 
It used to drive me crazy when I was involved.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You keep saying that I'm not full blooded American Indian for your own sick, sick mind just to slur me so stop it now or I will report you to Admin for discrimination about my race. You are a very, very hateful person who does not belong on KP.
> 
> Zip it!


 I just spent several hrs reading this entire thread. I can only guess that you may have a past history of unpleasant experiences because I could not find any negative references to you or your Native American identity, only responses to you. It is hard not to react to you, you speak with so much anger that I can't hear your message. This is a wonderful opportunity to get to know you, hear your thoughts in a non- negative manner. I group up here, saw how badly Native Americans have been treated, yet there is so much to admire about your culture, relationships to the natural world. Can you do that, let go of past hurts, let us know you as you really are?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I had to shake my head. How the hell did he think adults going out to dinner, spending their hard earned cash were going to act? 
Even being relatively frugal it would be easy to drop $100. for dinner. 
Did he think he was going to KFC? 
As I said, Bill "rip in the bum" O'Really.

http://sylviasrestaurant.com/



NJG said:


> Thanks jelun2 for those links. I had tried to find them before and didn't have any luck so didn't look again. No I don't see his remarks in a positive light either. The fact that he believed the opposite of what he actually saw is rather scary I think there are too many people in this country that feel the same way, out of ignorance. They see something on tv or hear something and believe it as the truth and pass it on. I think too many people tend to paint things with a broad brush.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I just spent several hrs reading this entire thread. I can only guess that you may have a past history of unpleasant experiences because I could not find any negative references to you or your Native American identity, only responses to you. It is hard not to react to you, you speak with so much anger that I can't hear your message. This is a wonderful opportunity to get to know you, hear your thoughts in a non- negative manner. I group up here, saw how badly Native Americans have been treated, yet there is so much to admire about your culture, relationships to the natural world. Can you do that, let go of past hurts, let us know you as you really are?


I looked up Janeway's tale about her Ranger great-grandfather and Cherokee Princess great-grandmother, and frankly I find it sad. After marriage the Cherokee Princes never went home again and, apparently, had no further contact with her Native American relatives. Her new husband changed her name, dressed her in conventional American clothing--and it's a given she spoke only English for the rest of her life.

The subject of cultural genocide has been discussed before--it's one thing that African- and Native Americans share, and it's tragic. Imagine losing your homeland, your culture, your language--it makes one shudder.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Labor Day *Union Rally report:*
> wonderful, comfortable day.
> *Attendance bigger than ever *. Atmosphere among the people extremely positive and forward looking. Nothing can stop us once we decide what we need to do was voiced over and over again.
> TOGETHER WE CAN - UNITED WE STAND.
> ...


*CITING OBAMACARE, 40,000 LONGSHOREMEN QUIT THE AFL-CIO*

by WARNER TODD HUSTON 2 Sep 2013, 2:51 AM with emphasis added

In what is being reported as a surprise move, *the 40,000 members of the International Longshore and Warehouse Union (ILWU) announced that they have formally ended their association with the AFL-CIO, one of the nation's largest private sector unions.*

The Longshoremen citied Obamacare and immigration reform as two important causes of their disaffiliation.

In an August 29 letter to AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka, ILWU President Robert McEllrath cited quite a list of grievances as reasons for the dissolution of their affiliation, but prominent among them was the AFL-CIO's support of Obamare.
*"We feel the Federation has done a great disservice to the labor movement and all working people by going along to get along," * McEllrath wrote in the letter to Trumka.

The ILWU President made it clear they are for a single-payer, nationalized healthcare policy and are upset with the AFL-CIO for going along with Obama on the confiscatory tax on their "Cadillac" healthcare plan.

The Longshoreman leader said, *"President Obama ran on a platform that he would not tax medical plans and at the 2009 AFL-CIO Convention, you stated that labor would not stand for a tax on our benefits."* But,  regardless of that promise, the President has pushed for just such a tax and Trumka and the AFL-CIO bowed to political pressure lining up behind Obama's tax on those plans.

McEllrath also went on to say that they support stronger immigration reform than the AFL-CIO is supporting.
One ILWU committeeman was even harsher on both the AFL-CIO and the President. ILWU Coast Committeeman Leal Sundet criticized the AFL-CIO telling LaborNotes.com that Trumka was marching "in lockstep" with Obama both on the "Cadillac healthcare tax" as well as immigration.

Sundet slammed Obama's immigration plan saying it is "designed to give [only] highly-paid workers a real path to citizenship."

  Private sector unions have fallen to an all time low participation rate in the US workforce. Unionized workers now account for only 11.3 percent of the US workforce.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama is not a centrist, Bill Clinton was much closer to the center, anyway he was in his last 6 years. So is a progressive center right? But, I have not seen that here on this thread from those that call themselves progressives.


This should be a topic in Obamacare.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I had to shake my head. How the hell did he think adults going out to dinner, spending their hard earned cash were going to act?
> Even being relatively frugal it would be easy to drop $100. for dinner.
> Did he think he was going to KFC?
> As I said, Bill "rip in the bum" O'Really.
> ...


LOL! :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Very inspiring, Huck. Here's a little something I learned today:
> 
> http://www.upworthy.com/remember-these-facts-the-next-time-you-sleep-in-on-a-saturday-2?c=upw1


aw9358
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. Hope you do not mind, I made hard copy and shall make handouts after checking if it is o.k. to do so. Huck.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Please try not to engage.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Great to hear, Huckleberry.
> On NPR this morning they were promoting a discussion of the need for unions, the apathy on the part of the young, and how to organize.
> It seems to me that unions should be fulfilling some of the very needs that we talk about here.
> A union would be the perfect vehicle for people to work together to improve their communities. It is a great way for those who are not interested in working through religious organizations or for activities outside the purview (good thing I looked that up) of religious settings.
> ...


jelun2
You are not alone being unhappy with the leadership. Believe me they are getting very unhappy with me lately. I keep showing up at their Offices to kick their butts. I have to say that I have seen changes. They too do want to stay employed and and the only way that is possible is to get the Unions back up and the time is now. I make it very clear that they too are replacable. Lots of great talent to step up and take the lead.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> You are not alone being unhappy with the leadership. Believe me they are getting very unhappy with me lately. I keep showing up at their Offices to kick their butts. I have to say that I have seen changes. They too do want to stay employed and and the only way that is possible is to get the Unions back up and the time is now.


I need to get in touch with Jobs with Justice, though, they prefer people who are connected... so long as they can point me in the right direction to do some income inequality work. I will be happy. 
On my way to Michaels to pick up some yarn. YAY for 50% off coupons.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> I make it very clear that they too are replacable.


Hmmm, 'replacable.' Is that a re-shellacing or re-varnishing or simply re-doing something on a plaque?

Are teeth replacable too?

Interesting ... r-e-p-l-a-c-a-b-l-e.

Wonder how marine varnish would work over something that has been re-placqued. :shock:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I went to high school and college in the 60's and no one tried to direct me into something I did not want to do. I was also in the National Honor Society, as far as my ranking in the nation, the only one I remember was that I scored higher than 99.5% of the High School Seniors in Mathematics. I graduated (BS) from College with honors. I also had the highest grade in 3 Math classes and 1 Chemistry Class in College. Most classes were 75-90% men.
> 
> I came from a very small farming community in Central Wisconsin. I was raised on a small farm. I guess I wasn't the norm. I have not made the big bucks, as some desire. But I would not change my life. I have done things I could not have dreamed of when I was growing up. One of the most satisfying things we have done is to assist people in the countries that emerged from behind the Iron Curtain. mainly Czech Republic, and Slovakia.


Same was true for you as other women in high school and college. You don't seem to understand what I was saying is just what you expressed that men were slotted in certain classes and career paths just as women were. You could say we were type cast based only on our sex. We were just as smart and often outperformed the boys much of the time but when it came to what we did after all the education and honors what did you become? You have mentioned doing taxes and today I see you said you were a teacher for many years so you followed the path that millions of other well educated women did. Teaching was traditionally a woman's job up until men came back from WWII and Korea and used the GI bill for college and then many many more joined the ranks as teachers but I am sure you know that. I wouldn't change my life either but I am very happy that young women have so many more opportunities than we did. Don't you think that is a good thing or do you believe women should be home raising kids and taking care of husbands and home? I applaud you for the good work you are doing today. That is wonderful. I believe there is much that needs to be done here in our own country and want to first take care of the pressing needs here. I know you and I are at totally opposite ends in the spectrum politically and I totally disagree with most of your social beliefs so I will only say that what we had in common was we both worked very hard and we both had a lot of luck that got us as far as we did. Many others in this country are not anywhere near as fortunate as we were joey and I do hope someday you understand just how lucky you have been. Nobody does it all alone. We all had some help along the way.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I looked up Janeway's tale about her Ranger great-grandfather and Cherokee Princess great-grandmother, and frankly I find it sad. After marriage the Cherokee Princes never went home again and, apparently, had no further contact with her Native American relatives. Her new husband changed her name, dressed her in conventional American clothing--and it's a given she spoke only English for the rest of her life.
> 
> The subject of cultural genocide has been discussed before--it's one thing that African- and Native Americans share, and it's tragic. Imagine losing your homeland, your culture, your language--it makes one shudder.


susanmos2000
Thank you. I so agree how sad what happened to the young woman. The GGD must have had no Heart to so cruelly separate his wife from her Family and Culture. Wonder why he chose her if he liked so little about her. I actually know a case, different culture, where a husband did that and she ended her young life by drowning. The isolation was too much to bear. He was years older than she, he a man of name and means and she young and beautiful from a different culture. 
Racism, bigotry and religion is the cause for such suffering all too often and it is not just a thing of the past, we live in the midst of it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

From Dr. King marching for human rights and worker's rights to this. Big business has methodically set about busting Unions and sending jobs overseas. Now that people in those countries are starting to want the same things Americans want for their families, a home, affordable medical care education for their children, a car ... These people are going to be unionized and making these demands on corporations. Unions will not be just local or national but international. Power to the People!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hmmm, 'replacable.' Is that a re-shellacing or re-varnishing or simply re-doing something on a plaque?
> 
> Are teeth replacable too?
> 
> ...


Pathetic. Casting the first stone again? I refrained from pointing out your recent errors in spelling and grammar because I rose above it. I thought that you thought you were better than that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Pathetic. Casting the first stone again? I refrained from pointing out your recent errors in spelling and grammar because I rose above it. I thought that you thought you were better than that.


Hi Ann - Just like the sun rising in the east and setting in the west this person is totally predictable and "snore" so boring. Sad isn't it. She reminds me of a song, but I can't remember what it is right now so I will check back with you later. You have to make your own fun out here dear you sure can't rely on her. The woman never cracks a smile. Not one funny bone in her body. :lol:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hope this gives you a chuckle, Anne. I'm still trying to remember the song :wink:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Ann - Just like the sun rising in the east and setting in the west this person is totally predictable and "snore" so boring. Sad isn't it. She reminds me of a song, but I can't remember what it is right now so I will check back with you later. You have to make your own fun out here dear you sure can't rely on her. The woman never cracks a smile. Not one funny bone in her body. :lol:


Hi Cheeky. Can't wait to hear the song. I did have one or two ideas but couldn't stoop that low in public.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> From Dr. King marching for human rights and worker's rights to this. Big business has methodically set about busting Unions and sending jobs overseas. Now that people in those countries are starting to want the same things Americans want for their families, a home, affordable medical care education for their children, a car ... These people are going to be unionized and making these demands on corporations. Unions will not be just local or national but international. Power to the People!


Here's a bit of nostalgia.The video is slow taking off, but so appropriate for Labor Day


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> From Dr. King marching for human rights and worker's rights to this. Big business has methodically set about busting Unions and sending jobs overseas. Now that people in those countries are starting to want the same things Americans want for their families, a home, affordable medical care education for their children, a car ... These people are going to be unionized and making these demands on corporations. Unions will not be just local or national but international. Power to the People!


Cheeky Blighter
You are so right. China is a great example. The people are now demanding fair wages and acceptable working conditions. There is no going back for them. They have learned quickly that they have People Power. And what happens there will spread to everywhere.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> Thank you. I so agree how sad what happened to the young woman. The GGD must have had no Heart to so cruelly separate his wife from her Family and Culture. Wonder why he chose her if he liked so little about her. I actually know a case, different culture, where a husband did that and she ended her young life by drowning. The isolation was too much to bear. He was years older than she, he a man of name and means and she young and beautiful from a different culture.
> Racism, bigotry and religion is the cause for such suffering all too often and it is not just a thing of the past, we live in the midst of it.


Either heartless--or terribly terribly ignorant. The story of Janeway's great-grandmother is hardly unique, I'm afraid. American society has traditionally suffered from elephantiasis of the ego--"Our ways our best, and the sooner you immigrants drop your funny foreign habits the better for all concerned." Ugh! Let's hope we can start moving away from all that and learn to appreciate cultural diversity.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here's a bit of nostalgia.The video is slow taking off, but so appropriate for Labor Day
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cynthia Turner (Oct 16, 2012)

Well, after all these pages, I probably don't need to add my two cents, but after a mixed race marriage, my mother wouldn't come to the wedding, which I sure wish I could forgive her for, since she wouldn't come to the funeral talk...after 21 years of marriage, I can only say after so many horror stories in so many cultures, you would think the yarn of common experience would have found out yarn and dye and flowers,fiber come in many colors


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope they rise again. They are needed very badly in order for workers to negotiate with management. IMHO



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> Good morning. A nice day. We are going to a Union Rally. Big Event. See you later.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> 18% of African-Americans over the age of 25 hold college degrees, but too few of these are in the fields of physics, mathematics, history, engineering, and foreign languages. Encouraging young African-Americans to enter into these fields of study--well-established paths into more lucrative and influential professions--would no doubt do a lot to combat the racism still so much a part of American society.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

And yet those with a history and a reason to avoid contact still can't resist talking to and about them. 
CYA it's been fun.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Ann - Just like the sun rising in the east and setting in the west this person is totally predictable and "snore" so boring. Sad isn't it. She reminds me of a song, but I can't remember what it is right now so I will check back with you later. You have to make your own fun out here dear you sure can't rely on her. The woman never cracks a smile. Not one funny bone in her body. :lol:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cynthia Turner said:


> Well, after all these pages, I probably don't need to add my two cents, but after a mixed race marriage, my mother wouldn't come to the wedding, which I sure wish I could forgive her for, since she wouldn't come to the funeral talk...after 21 years of marriage, I can only say after so many horror stories in so many cultures, you would think the yarn of common experience would have found out yarn and dye and flowers,fiber come in many colors


Yes, it does. I'm not sure my father could have accepted the fact that his son married a woman from Burma either. But people can change. Happily interracial marriage isn't that uncommon anymore, and people seem to be coming to terms with the fact that underneath those different-colored skins we're very much alike.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cynthia Turner said:


> Well, after all these pages, I probably don't need to add my two cents, but after a mixed race marriage, my mother wouldn't come to the wedding, which I sure wish I could forgive her for, since she wouldn't come to the funeral talk...after 21 years of marriage, I can only say after so many horror stories in so many cultures, you would think the yarn of common experience would have found out yarn and dye and flowers,fiber come in many colors


I have a very dear cousin that has accepted mixed race marriages for two of his grand daughters. I am sure he never expected or thought about it till he was faced with it. He said it is the gd's choice, not his when they decide to marry. When we talked about it he said both of these young men work hard to support their families and treat their wives and children with much love and respect. What more could you want. Pretty good common sence for a small town Iowa farmer past age 80.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried said:


> May I join this discussion please.
> The very first black Man I met was a Pharmacist who spoke
> 3 languages. The first college educated person in the history of his family. A white Teacher had pushed him and fought for him for grants to attend college.
> His family resented him because they felt that he now was joining the people who had treated blacks horribly. All that has gone away and others have joined his path.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's right you know. No more 'ignore' 'go away' etc. from me. We all know what's best for us.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I truly hope you are right. I'm still disgusted and pessimistic. Thank goodness I leave soon for an overnight campout that will include a lot of good food, walking around in a beautiful place, skinny dipping, and happy, sappy, idealistic, humorous, wild disscussion around a cozy campfire. All of that plus a little veritas in vino about the real world, and a good night's sleep under the stars are just the thing to recharge one's batteries and get back to feeling positive and idealistic again.
> 
> I actually know people who can disagree, argue in the craziest terms and in the very worst bad language and still not insult each other personally, and end up laughing in the end. If there are people like my friends in the real world, surely there are people like them here.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder MIB. I'm back on the wagon.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? Why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use? Why post even the simplest trash, the word ignore, when ignoring a post is the best thing to do? Even that one word inflames the very people who ought to be ignored. Ill bet we can ignore what ought to be ignored without pointing out that it should be ignored.
> 
> Well, here I am on my soapbox again, probably making some people laugh their heads off. So what? Let them laugh. Let them laugh here in print. Let their efforts to get a rise out of any of us go unfulfilled.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Don't be discouraged MIB. You know who is trying to destroy this thread and it is like having the proverbial elephant in the room. I have lost all respect for this person who I used to fight with and she brought out the worst in me. All I learned was I can only take responsibility for myself and change my own behavior and no one else's. You know who many of the people are here and you see how many new people have joined us and what a pleasant environment we have created together. Once again the same little group cannot leave us alone in their attempt to destroy this one thread. We can ignore them or throw in the towel. I am ignoring them as are most others. Sometimes they get so rude some people snap back and I understand that but then they stop and think and realize we have been through all of this before. You know the history as well as I do. I would ask you to try to look at all the positives and the fum we have been having and don't throw in the towel. This is our spot and they have many other places to post. As a woman who has been involved in civil rights activities and other liberal activities you know we can never give in. Ultimately, it is your decision but I hope you decide to stay and just ignore the folks who come here just to destroy this place. I am aware that there are a couple of ladies from the right who are posting here with self respect and with respect for us and they are welcome to do so as long as discussions do not become heated or personal. This is a home for liberals and like all homes we should be able to be safe and undisturbed. The right has a home base called Denim & Pearls that I never post on and will not as that is their home. I am showing my respect for them by not doing so and it would be a show of good faith on their part to stay off of this thread which is our home. We can't make everyone "love" us and we shouldn't try but we can be respectful and that is how I am trying to conduct myself. No more down and dirty fighting. It accomplishes nothing. You make your own decision. None of us can serve two masters can we?


Thanks for the inspiration, Cheeky. As I meet new people and new ideas, I'm finding it's easier to ignore the troublemakers. They can't make trouble if no one plays ....just take up room occasionally.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope she'll be back after R&R.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good for you miatalover and damemary. MIB are you with us?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's my experience as well.



alcameron said:


> I've never thought of the NEA as liberal or progressive.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> jelun- They are a lost cause and hopefully they will lose interest but until that day we just need to try to ignore them and step around them. They can't see how others perceive them. If they did they would be embarrassed and leave but I don't think anything embarrasses them either.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Later, Peace.



peacegoddess said:


> I have many liberal friends who just see me as their leftie barometer. Neither do I categorize most on this thread as progressive, but I still enjoy reading and interacting with everyone.
> 
> The progressives I read, listen to, and have as friends did not vote for Obama and consider him a nice enough guy, but not politically left and certainly not even close to socialist as the conservatives like to designate him.
> 
> ...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you so much for sharing and passing on a very important reminder .



jelun2 said:


> I keep forgetting to ask if you all are familiar with
> 
> http://www.bettybowers.com/
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love that man.



NJG said:


> This Robert Reich video is well worth watching.
> 
> http://front.moveon.org/how-workers-can-get-a-fair-shake-a-labor-day-message-from-robert-reich/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can relate, but perhaps we got the best of two worlds, a career to occupy our minds and a family life to occupy our hearts.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan I know you are much younger than me so I see this from a little different perspective than you do. I was inducted into National Honor Society as a junior in high school and graduated in the top 1.0% in the nation. This was back in the 1960's. Even though I was tops in the nation the high school and college advisors back in those days directed college bound women towards majors where you "assisted" males and did not compete with them. The top choices were teachers, social workers, nurses, variety of therapists etc. and civil service positions which were all 2nd class status "jobs". If you were interested in business it was suggested you go to a good business college. Women did not need the classes that men did who wanted a business career. The main objective was to go to a good school and find a husband to marry and who would support you and a family. Women didn't have "careers". Men did. It was frowned upon to even aspire to have a profession. Some women who were born into families who had parents that were professionals themselves did start encouraging their daughters right along with sons to have a profession "just in case" not to actually go out and work and so they could engage in " intellectual" conversation. Even well educated women understood their place was in the home. We were decorative at best. With the women's movement women said to hell with this and we can do anything and everything a man can do and better and they aren't going to holds us back any more. As you know most women are still being held back and paid less than men and not breaking into enough boardrooms or high political office. I followed the norm and got my B.S. degree graduating with honors and ended up getting married. I broke a lot of barriers myself mainly because I was stubborn and believed I could. I could have and should have accomplished much more. Women were also supposed to be modest and not brag about their accomplishments as men could. I continue learning and advancing the cause of peace, saving the earth, women, unions, minorities and the GLBT community. I know at this point in my life am able to own my failures and my accomplishments. My priorities sometimes shift depending on what is currently the most pressing issue for me. Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I just want to tag along here, interrupt, whatever...
> and say to Cheekie that the only failure is in not trying.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The temp has temporarily dropped. It's nice to turn off the AC and throw open the window. Back yard fire pits are burning around the neighborhood.
It reminds me of our time up at the lake. 
>>>>she says with a big smile>>>>>


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I became familiar with the union movement as a child in the 1950's. The union movement made it possible for my Dad to support us in 'middle class' fashion. My parents bought a house. My mother didn't work. Very different from today.



Huckleberry said:


> Labor Day Union Rally report:
> wonderful, comfortable day.
> Attendance bigger than ever. Atmosphere among the people extremely positive and forward looking. Nothing can stop us once we decide what we need to do was voiced over and over again.
> TOGETHER WE CAN - UNITED WE STAND.
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Same here, dame. Where I grew up there were few jobs that were not union.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Cynthia, thanks for sharing. Hope to hear from you again soon.



Cynthia Turner said:


> Well, after all these pages, I probably don't need to add my two cents, but after a mixed race marriage, my mother wouldn't come to the wedding, which I sure wish I could forgive her for, since she wouldn't come to the funeral talk...after 21 years of marriage, I can only say after so many horror stories in so many cultures, you would think the yarn of common experience would have found out yarn and dye and flowers,fiber come in many colors


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> I have a very dear cousin that has accepted mixed race marriages for two of his grand daughters. I am sure he never expected or thought about it till he was faced with it. He said it is the gd's choice, not his when they decide to marry. When we talked about it he said both of these young men work hard to support their families and treat their wives and children with much love and respect. What more could you want. Pretty good common sence for a small town Iowa farmer past age 80.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Wise man.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks, Patty. Here are a few other good Union songs.

The last two links are from the movie Brassed Off which is about the closing of the coal mines in England by Maggie Thatcher and Tory Party. 
The character, Danny was a miner and directed the miner's brass band in Grimethorpe. The band won the national competition held at Royal Albert Hall in London. For you Anne.

Solidarity Forever - Pete Seeger






Ludlow Massacre - Woody Guthrie






Danny's Speech from the movie Brassed Off






Danny Boy from the movie Brassed Off played outside Danny's hospital room


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Once again, my hero, Robert Reich, makes sense on the issue of paying people a living wage. Right now in 35 states being on welfare pays better than working at one of these low-paying jobs.


Trim executives' pay, raise minimum wage

The good news this Labor Day: Jobs are returning. The bad news this Labor Day: Most of them pay lousy wages and provide low, if not nonexistent, benefits.

The trend toward lousy wages began before the Great Recession. According to a new report from the Economic Policy Institute, weak wage growth between 2000 and 2007, combined with wage losses for most workers since then, means that the bottom 60 percent of working Americans are earning less now than 13 years ago.

This also is part of the explanation for why the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has been increasing - from 12.3 percent in 2006 to around 14 percent this year - even as the economy has started to recover. More than 35 million Americans now live below the poverty line.

Many of them have jobs. The problem is that these jobs just don't pay enough to lift their families out of poverty.

But wait a minute. Since 2000, productivity has grown by nearly 25 percent. That means the typical American worker is producing a quarter more than he or she did 13 years ago.

So if wages have flattened or declined for the bottom 60 percent, yet productivity has increased, where have the gains gone? Mostly to corporations and the very rich.

All of which gives some context to the strikes in recent weeks at fast-food chain stores, such as McDonald's, where workers are demanding a raise to $15 an hour from their current pay of $8 to $10 an hour. And the demonstrations and walkouts at Walmart stores, whose workers also are demanding better pay. The average Walmart employee earns $8.81 an hour. A third of Walmart's employees work fewer than 28 hours per week and don't qualify for benefits.

Few of these workers are teenagers. Most have to support their families. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the median age of fast-food workers is over 28; and women, who comprise two-thirds of the industry, are over 32. The median age of big-box retail workers is over 30. These workers typically bring in half their family's earnings.

They deserve a raise.

At the very least, the minimum wage should be increased from the current $7.25 an hour to $10.50 - and to $15 in areas of the country with a higher cost of living. Had the federal minimum wage simply kept up with inflation from the late 1960s, it would already be well over $10 today.

Contrary to the predictable pontifications of conservative pundits, such a raise won't cause many low-wage workers to lose their jobs. Unlike industrial jobs, these sorts of retail service jobs can't be outsourced abroad. Nor are they likely to be replaced by automated machinery and computers. The service these workers provide is personal and direct: Someone has to be on hand to help customers and dole out the burgers.

And don't believe critics who say any wage gains these workers receive will be passed on to consumers in higher prices. Big-box retailers and fast-food chains have to compete intensely for consumers. They have no choice but to keep their prices low.

This means wage gains for low-paid workers are most likely to come out of profits - which, in turn, would slightly trim returns to shareholders and compensation packages of top executives.

That wouldn't be such a bad thing.

According to a report by the National Employment Law Project, most low-wage workers are employed by large corporations that have been enjoying healthy profits. Three-quarters of these employers (the 50 biggest employers of low-wage workers) are raking in higher revenues now than they did before the recession.

McDonald's - bellwether for the fast-food industry - posted strong results during the recession by attracting cash-strapped customers, and its sales have continued to rise. McDonald's CEO Don Thompson was awarded a big whopper of a compensation package last year, valued at $13.8 million.

Yum! Brands, which operates and licenses Taco Bell, KFC and Pizza Hut, has also done wonderfully well. Its CEO, David Novak, received $11.3 million in compensation last year. The company enjoyed a 13 percent gain in annual earnings - its 11th straight year of double-digit growth. Shareholders got a return of 15 percent.

Walmart, the nation's largest employer, also continues to grow despite a sluggish economy and pays its executives handsomely. The total compensation of Walmart's CEO, Michael Duke, was $20.7 million last year, up from $18.1 million in 2011. Total sales rose 5 percent to $466.1 billion. Earnings per share rose 10.6 percent.

Not incidentally, the wealth of the Walton family - which still owns the lion's share of Walmart stock - now exceeds the wealth of the bottom 40 percent of American families combined, according to an analysis by the Economic Policy Institute.

It would not be a tragedy if some of these shareholder returns and compensation packages have to be trimmed in order that low-wage workers at McDonald's, KFC and Walmart get a raise.

Indeed, if this nation is to reverse the scourge of widening inequality, such a trimming is necessary.

© 2013 Robert Reich Robert Reich, former U.S. secretary of labor, is professor of public policy at UC Berkeley and the author of "Beyond Outrage," now available in paperback. His new film, "Inequality for All," will be out Sept. He blogs at www.robertreich.org. To comment, go to www.sfgate.com/submissions/#1.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cynthia Turner said:


> Well, after all these pages, I probably don't need to add my two cents, but after a mixed race marriage, my mother wouldn't come to the wedding, which I sure wish I could forgive her for, since she wouldn't come to the funeral talk...after 21 years of marriage, I can only say after so many horror stories in so many cultures, you would think the yarn of common experience would have found out yarn and dye and flowers,fiber come in many colors


Cynthia Turner
Wish I could lessen your pain. Too bad you did not have a Mom like mine. She loved and embraced everybody. My Heart goes out to you in hopes that the rest of your Life is very happy and that you have no regrets. Hugs Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> I have a very dear cousin that has accepted mixed race marriages for two of his grand daughters. I am sure he never expected or thought about it till he was faced with it. He said it is the gd's choice, not his when they decide to marry. When we talked about it he said both of these young men work hard to support their families and treat their wives and children with much love and respect. What more could you want. Pretty good common sence for a small town Iowa farmer past age 80.


NJG
we should celebrate his wisdom.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I had to shake my head. How the hell did he think adults going out to dinner, spending their hard earned cash were going to act?
> Even being relatively frugal it would be easy to drop $100. for dinner.
> Did he think he was going to KFC?
> As I said, Bill "rip in the bum" O'Really.
> ...


jelun2
Very likely that all of the people in the Restaurant not looking like O'Reilly behaved superior to him. I never see him having any class, ever. He is simply an arrogant, always screaming Bully. And he wants to speak about ill behavior?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I find it hard to believe that Fox kept him after his sexual harrassment charges a few years back. But then agian, it is Fox......


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2
Thank you for the touching story about Life. All too often we push the Pedal only to have to hit the brakes at the next Light. Rational thinking can rarely be seen.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I find it hard to believe that Fox kept him after his sexual harrassment charges a few years back. But then agian, it is Fox......


Bratty Patty
Ever notice that Fox is a gathering Pit for those who do not fit in well elsewhere? And since that attracts a certain segment of society, they have an interesting viewing audience.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> For the love of God, KPG, can you please put down the battle club? Enough is enough--let's leave all the quarreling and acrimony behind in the other threads.


KPG Why do you insist on spoiling a site that is positive. Why do you come here and spread your hate?

Bratty is trying to start a thread about love, instead of hate and dislike. why do you come here and carry on your nastiness. If you don't agree- stay away. She is trying to have a place where MLK is the example. you come in and throw your nastiness on it. Please - let us talk about the ideals of a Man who was a good man -- and who influenced a whole nation to give each other a chance.

There are places on KP where you can all fight -- this was a place where we were trying to find a bridge. why can't
you leave your nastiness behind. Let it go and try to find a middle ground -- It is so desperately needed right now.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

*I want to apologize for my post last night. I just read what Maid in Bedlam wrote and I agree l00% with her thoughts. I didn't read from the beginning and missed her post.*


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I want to apologize to all of you who posted previously for my post last night. I just read what Maid in Bedlam wrote and I agree l00% with her thoughts.


Designer1234, please you have no reason to apologize. Virtually everyone here wants to avoid trouble and spend time instead engaging in thought-provoking debate, but the provocation to lose one's temper can be intense. For what's it worth, I had no trouble whatsoever with your original post. The few troublemakers are easily identified, and it's almost impossible to refrain from scolding them at times. Please, don't worry about it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Designer1234, please you have no reason to apologize. Virtually everyone here wants to avoid trouble and spend time instead engaging in thought-provoking debate, but the provocation to lose one's temper can be intense. For what's it worth, I had no trouble whatsoever with your original post. The few troublemakers are easily identified, and it's almost impossible to refrain from scolding them at times. Please, don't worry about it.


Thankyou -- I believe so strongly in a forum like this one that Cheeky started. Where we can talk and even disagree but in a respectful way.

Maid in Bedlam expressed my feelings exactly.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky wrote: Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.
------------
I so agree Cheeky-- it is the same journey, only there is a difficult road for minorities and has been through time in north America. ( Including Canada as far as First Peoples are concerned)

I remember desperately wanting to go to Art school in Toronto (2500 miles from my home in the west) and when I was graduating from high school,

I asked my Dad to pay my way. 'His answer was:* No, I will pay for you to go to business college where you can learn to be a secretary to hold you in good stead, in case no man wants to marry you*'. The sad thing about that - was that that was normal and I didn't argue with him. However when I turned l7 I got on the train after borrowing $l00.00 from my grandmother and went to Toronto - and though I didn't go to Art school I made my way on my own from that point on.

I never accepted that I was a second class citizen. I wonder why it is expected that minorities accept that they are second class citizens. Many fight for their rights, like MLK and others are so 'down' they don't think there is any hope.

Women are still fighting that battle. I agree that minorities are where I was in l940. Such a long way for them to still go.

We have different problems in Canada - but I feel I am a citizen of the world and we can't be interested only in our little space in it.

I am not able to contribute as much as you who are Americans, I am not familiar with all the people you quote, but I am interested and will continue following this thread and put my two cents in when I feel it is pertinent.

This thread is like a breath of fresh air. Can you imagine what it would be like if all of us on both sides of the Political spectrum (at home too) could see where the other side is coming from - not as enemies but as in a joint venture to make our country and the world a better place. We don't have to agree -- but we do have to listen -- and we do have to meet a middle ground - I believe that so completely - that is why I keep coming back.

.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Cheeky wrote:
> 
> Women were also supposed to be modest and not brag about their accomplishments as men could. I continue learning and advancing the cause of peace, saving the earth, women, unions, minorities and the GLBT community. I know at this point in my life am able to own my failures and my accomplishments. . Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.


You're very right, Designer. The code of behavior women and African-Americans have traditionally been expected to adhere to is explicit--don't raise your voice, be respectful no matter what the provocation, always put the interests of others (husbands, families, masters) before your own. In the 19th century women who flouted the code were accused of "un-sexing" themselves; in the 21st century they're labeled "b-tchy" and referred to as "b-llbreakers". In the Jim Crow era African-Americans with a sense of self-determination were denigrated as uppity and arrogant, and now--well, the same labels are still applied. Some things haven't changed!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

So good to see you Shirley and Susan thanks for the great conversation the two of you were having. Your contributions and the contributions of all others out here done in a spirit of goodwill and sharing is really exciting to see. Now if we could bottle it up and send it out to all the politicians round the world to get them moving and doing the work of the people we would all be in much better shape. Thanks, everyone and have a beautiful day. 
Cheeky :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're very right, Designer. The code of behavior women and African-Americans have traditionally been expected to adhere to is explicit--don't raise your voice, be respectful no matter what the provocation, always put the interests of others (husbands, families, masters) before your own. In the 19th century women who flouted the code were accused of "un-sexing" themselves; in the 21st century they're labeled "b-tchy" and referred to as "b-llbreakers". In the Jim Crow era African-Americans with a sense of self-determination were denigrated as uppity and arrogant, and now--well, the same labels are still applied. Some things haven't changed!


================
We have come a long way though- my daughter would never accept being told 'in case no one wants to marry you' - she is able to make that choice herself.

No huge change is easy. I would never imagined it possible that a Black man could be President of the United states -- is it so surprising that those who want things to remain exactly the way it was when they grew up, are afraid of this change? In my opinion it is not the man but the actual idea that makes people so concerned about that fact. I have come to the opinion that all their fears of change now have a point where they can express their 
concerns and it is the man -- because the idea is so hard for many people to accept as it is the 'unknown'. I honestly think that many people don't believe it is racist, their feelings of dislike and sometimes horror that he is in a position of such power.

It gets so wearying for people who are poor, uneducated, and fearful -- how do they pull them selves out of that situation when every one around them is in exactly the same situation. It has to be done politically, with laws that protect people, not to be used against those who are
'downtrodden' (that seems like such a foolish word - but it is the right word in my opinion.

Someone like the President gives them hope - but at the same time those who are afraid of what will happen if it changes are fearful and he becomes the focal point for unexplained feelings of distress. The feel better believing it is the person who is the threat - not the change that is the threat.

Neither feeling is unexpected in my opinion. When people have believed for generations that they are superior, and people have been told for generations that they are inferior, it is like two huge waves meeting -- and there is anger, fear, frustration and many other different levels of those things. Each person, in my belief has some of at least one side of those feelings.

When children are taught to fear - and taught that they are second citizens, only a few are able to pull themselves above that pre conceived level. They don't know how to/ Sometimes they react 
in different ways. Small wonder. They see the huge difference in attitude by those who are not the minority.

It is the same here in Canada - not exactly the same problem, but years of being told you are not as good as others, and being treated like children, make you feel you are a child, and you can't stand up and fight your own attitudes and 
what you have had drilled into you since birth. You also know that your people were here first - so there is a feeling of frustration and anger - which shows up in so many ways. You are programmed to feel that you 'deserve' help, how can that be a surprise when every aspect of their lives for generations have been drilled into them that they are not bright enough, not strong enough , are useless etc. etc. _you start to believe it - you grow up believing it_. I am speaking of my country now. It is so very sad to me.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I agree wholeheartedly


When Cheeky first started this site, she said F--k Y-- to one of the people on the "right" but after she knew that person had seen it quickly deleted it! She has changed her name several times when things around KP got too rough for her, but now, she has found a few people who are exactly as she is--hateful bunch!

So stay tuned & the real Cheeky will pop out as she does not stay nice very long, but most other people leave her.

She started this site just to stir-up bad feelings within the black community. We won't ever forget the past, but it cannot be changed.

My race (The American Native Indians) have been treated horribly as well as your race, but I have not started a thread to rehash the past as it does nothing except bring out anger.

Most of all where are the black fathers of these children who seen to father many children but are responsible for none.

When we lived on our farm & our girls were young, there were two black girls who came to our house for several days at a time as they were best friends with our girls. They loved the farm & I treated them as my own girls. They helped with the chores & loved the animals & learned to cook during harvest time. Their mom was a single mom who appreciated them being in our home.

There was not a dad ever mentioned, but sometimes, they would call my husband dad. They called me mom from the first time they came to our house. I enjoyed having the girls & we had a lot of fun together during those years, but I have not seen them since they graduated from high school. I will try to find them if it is possible as I'm sure they are married with children of their own.

So I don't feel as I'm prejudiced against blacks as I dearly loved those girls & even took care of them when they were sick as their mom had to work & I was a stay at home mom. A few years ago, a friend told me the mom died of cancer.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

You've give me so much food for thought that it's difficult to know where to begin. Guess I'll take it from the top! 

Yes, I agree that fear is at the heart of some many racists' belief systems--fear and guilt. This is nothing new, of course--from 18th and 19th century accounts we know that many slave owners lived in mortal terror of their human chattel. Despite their attempts to whitewash (pun not intended) the institution, they knew it was wrong, and fear that slaves would eventually rebel haunted their every waking hour.

Of course we no longer have slaves, thank goodness...but still many racists still seem very much afraid of African-Americans. They latch onto every assault that seems to have racial overtones, speculate on the black-on-white race war they fully expect to happen, and arm themselves to the teeth in preparation. Their fear and angst is palatable, and really it's very sad--certainly does nothing to improve the situation.


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## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Absolutely agree, Jelun.


Jelun and Alcameron, I wonder if you could rethink cutting the President a break. We all know he wanted single payer healthcare, as do I, and most of us on this thread. He also knew that no way was he getting it through Congress. I assume he thought it the first step in an incremental process, and reasonably believed that part of something was better than all of nothing. His biggest mistake, as far as I am concerned, is not accepting the fact that there was no way to work with the Rs and the Teas who consider bipartisanship defeat.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> My race (The American Native Indians) have been treated horribly as well as your race, but I have not started a thread to rehash the past as it does nothing except bring out anger.


Frankly, Janeway, I think someone _should_ start a thread that deal with the Native American experience. Your own family history shows how abominably Native Americans have been treated, and the problems continue to this day. There are many similarities between the conditions both African- and Native Americans were subjected to: loss of language, homeland, and an almost total annihilation of culture. The problems these groups face are complicated, and the solutions even more so--an honest and open discussion is the only way to sort it all out.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> I only know what you said and here your postings dear Lady:
> GGD = Great Grand Dad
> 6-4-2012 GGD married Cherokee
> ...


Yes, you still have taken this out of the actual contents. I like so many other races have denied the full blood as I have had enough discrimination such as what you are telling now!

You read what you want about everyone then take the meanings to suit your own horrible agenda. So if you bring up anything else about my race I will report you every time! So zip it!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, you still have taken this out of the actual contents. I like so many other races have denied the full blood as I have had enough discrimination such as what you are telling now!
> 
> You read what you want about everyone then take the meanings to suit your own horrible agenda. So if you bring up anything else about my race I will report you every time! So zip it!


Janeway, please. I'm not sure which version is correct, and frankly they appear to be two sides of the same coin. Whether it was your great-grandmother who was bullied by her husband into adopting "white" ways or you who were too embarrassed 100% Native American heritage, makes no difference. The common element to both stories is shame--shame of one's heritage and soul-destroying pressure to conform to societal 'norms'. That's something we in this thread are attempting to understand and to combat, and given your experiences I sure you have much insight to offer. Please consider joining us.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> When Cheeky first started this site, she said F--k Y-- to one of the people on the "right" but after she knew that person had seen it quickly deleted it! She has changed her name several times when things around KP got too rough for her, but now, she has found a few people who are exactly as she is--hateful bunch!
> 
> So stay tuned & the real Cheeky will pop out as she does not stay nice very long, but most other people leave her.
> 
> ...


Jane I hesitate to even interact with you as you are always so angry but I am not going to let you lie about me. I have never ever said F--- Y-- to anyone. If that was ever posted I did not see it and someone else did it and not me. I am not fighting battles for any particular ethnic group. We only started the thread off with MLK because of the 50th anniversary occurring at the same time and I believe it is a good thing to remember such important events in our history. Dr. King and all the people involved in the Civil  Rights movement are owed a debt of gratitude from all of us and we must carry on their struggle for justice because we haven't reached equality in this country yet and we still have much to accomplish. Their struggle is our struggle. I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from but when you come out hear making false accusations and being so angry you scare people and they don't want to interact with you. We all know you are Native American so you don't need to tell us that anymore. We are all human beings Jane and that is what is important. This thread is for everyone but we have no time for people who cannot come here and be civil to others. If people want to argue there are other places to do that, not here. Have some respect for the people who want to post here please. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. I learned that fighting and getting nasty with people was pointless. It doesn't get us anywhere. If you can leave your anger at the door and have a nice discussion with no name calling you are welcome here and if you can't then please don't ruin this place for others that do. Thank you, Cheeky


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It seems as if we are once again getting off the track. I would suggest that we *ignore* personal posts against each other.

Let us stop getting into personal unkind posts - no matter if we think we are right! The other threads can remain for those purposes.

Lets forget our anger against each other -- let's try to make a new start!

let's not repeat the same old statements and arguments. Let's try to 
meet each other at least a few steps closer to a middle ground so that problems can be solved.

Let's admit to ourselves and each other that each of us is an individual with strong beliefs that they have strong feelings that their way is the only wayl- lets try to find a way to find a happy medium and work together rather than apart.

Lets promise publicly we will all do that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I am so pleased that this thread is available to all people, regardless of their politics, or their country -- who want to keep this thread a place where we can talk, not fight. 

I herewith make a vow that I will not answer any personal attacks by anyone on either side of the Political spectrum while visiting this thread. I also vow that I will not answer personal attacks or make personal attacks on this thread.

I will speak kindly as I would if we were face to face -- I will treat everyone as a respected acquaintance and if at all possible as a possible friend but never as an enemy.

I received this PM today from one of our posters and she has made a vow that she wanted me to share with you. This lovely lady is better known to us as Designer1234 or Shirley, a huge contributor to KP with all her wonderful classes. I am also taking the vow and will do my very best to keep it. MIB also made a vow of her own on the thread in her own words to leave the negative attitude at the door. If any of the rest of you wish to do so publicly that is fine and for those of you who feel uncomfortable doing so that is perfectly all right too. If I slip and fall I will make amends and begin again. Thanks everyone. Cheeky


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You keep saying that I'm not full blooded American Indian for your own sick, sick mind just to slur me so stop it now or I will report you to Admin for discrimination about my race. You are a very, very hateful person who does not belong on KP.
> 
> Zip it!


Dear People
hope all of you are fine.
Turning the other cheek? Not when
Janeway got nasty at me for simply repeating things she informed all of us about, her heritage, see her postings from 6-4-12. 
She posted: GGD full blooded IRISH, his wife Cherokee. Makes her full blooded NA? Really?
This issue only kept growing because she always accuses others of lying. Just now she accused Cheeky of saying something, she never said. 
Now you decide how sick I am. Thank you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, Janeway, I think someone _should_ start a thread that deal with the Native American experience. Your own family history shows how abominably Native Americans have been treated, and the problems continue to this day. There are many similarities between the conditions both African- and Native Americans were subjected to: loss of language, homeland, and an almost total annihilation of culture. The problems these groups face are complicated, and the solutions even more so--an honest and open discussion is the only way to sort it all out.


I agree Susan - we have racism in Canada with our First Peoples -- who have spent their lives on Reservations, and many of the older ones who were forced into Reservation Schools, many who were terribly mistreated. There is still outspoken and not outspoken racism against first Nations People. The first nations who are alive right now have never known anything different. They have been raised living with the knowledge that they are 'different' and that no one expects them to accomplish anything so why should they try?

There are more and more who are fighting this feeling on the Reservations, but it is a long, slow tortured road. They, like the those who feel racism in the States, know it isn't fair ,but in my opinion don't know how to break out of the situation.

I have worked on one of the reservations and it is very sad. There is the feeling that they can't break away from their situation. Those who try are sometimes treated with disrespect by their own people - who don't feel the fight will achieve anything. The answers to this are so 
involved and so difficult to find. Agreement among both the First Nations themselves and Government agencies and non Indian people is so difficult to obtain. Knowing the best way to change the situation is so difficult too.

These are just my opinions. *There are lots who disagree with me and they have that right*

Some have said to me -- what business is it of yours? 
I think it is my business - it is also my business to try to 
find a middle ground where two sides can somehow meet a middle ground and find the places where they do agree rather than threaten each other and insist on talking about the things they will never agree on-

In both our countries free speech is everything - but we have to use it with restraint to avoid hurting ourselves, our compatriots ,our opposites, and our countries.

We have to try to find a place where we can work to solve the problems. To me there is no other way we can ever achieve what we all want to achieve, which is a life where we can live together in a fairly reasonable fashion, where life is better for all of us.

Is there one of us in either country that really doesn't want that???


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane I hesitate to even interact with you as you are always so angry but I am not going to let you lie about me. I have never ever said F--- Y-- to anyone. If that was ever posted I did not see it and someone else did it and not me. I am not fighting battles for any particular ethnic group. We only started the thread off with MLK because of the 50th anniversary occurring at the same time and I believe it is a good thing to remember such important events in our history. Dr. King and all the people involved in the Civil Rights movement are owed a debt of gratitude from all of us and we must carry on their struggle for justice because we haven't reached equality in this country yet and we still have much to accomplish. Their struggle is our struggle. I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from but when you come out hear making false accusations and being so angry you scare people and they don't want to interact with you. We all know you are Native American so you don't need to tell us that anymore. We are all human beings Jane and that is what is important. This thread is for everyone but we have no time for people who cannot come here and be civil to others. If people want to argue there are other places to do that, not here. Have some respect for the people who want to post here please. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. I learned that fighting and getting nasty with people was pointless. It doesn't get us anywhere. If you can leave your anger at the door and have a nice discussion with no name calling you are welcome here and if you can't then please don't ruin this place for others that do. Thank you, Cheeky


Oh, yes, you did say it as I have the quote & will post it when SIL helps me copy/post it on here as it does not lie! Nice try!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Also, Huck, on 5-27-13' Bratty wrote--welcome Huck, or should I say welcome back!

Who is Tom? Your partner?

Since you enjoy reading & making a mountain out of a mole hill, then I'll give more info on you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Dear People
> hope all of you are fine.
> Turning the other cheek? Not when
> Janeway got nasty at me for simply repeating things she informed all of us about, her heritage, see her postings from 6-4-12.
> ...


Yes, I also did some reading on your posts so see the later post as Bratty said welcome back! You are sick!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

here is my vow --

I herewith make a vow that I will not answer any personal attacks by anyone on either side of the Political spectrum while visiting this thread. I also vow that I will not make personal attacks on this thread.

I will speak kindly as I would if we were face to face -- I will treat everyone as a respected acquaintance and if at all possible as a possible friend but never as an enemy.

I promise to try to forget things that have been said against me and also promise not to continue those conversations.
Shirley

ps. I hope you will join us in this promise.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

It sounds good to me to start over, but it is Huck who started this.

Susan, my GF was not abusive to my GM as SEE--this is how nasty things gets blown out of context. They did not live on the reservation; therefore, lived among the whites as most of you hate, so they both dressed as everyone else did.

During that time frame, they would not have been accepted into the area if they had dressed & kept the Indian ways. You don't know what you are talking about so again, zip it!

Huck is back on according to Bratty as she knows who it is so your gang is always starting trouble.

We have tried to have a civil conversation, but when we make a comment, we are called stupid or that we are idiots, so why don't you Lefties try to at least be kind instead of so hateful?

There might be peace.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It seems as if we are once again getting off the track. I would suggest that we *ignore* personal posts against each other.
> 
> Let us stop getting into personal unkind posts - no matter if we think we are right! The other threads can remain for those purposes.
> 
> ...


So I should just *ignore * the personal attack you made on me Sept 2nd?

Gladly, once you apologize to me for doing so.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It is a lovely day here in Western Canada-- I look out and see the Beautiful Canadian Rockies from my window -- Our children are back at school today and life is starting to show signs of Autumn here in the foothills. 

I have been collecting hats, scarves, mittens and cowls for those who lost everything in the dreadful floods that over ran my home city and many other parts of our Province. Many many people have lost their homes and many other will be affected by the floods for years to come. Two Indian Communities were completely isolated and flooded. Many towns in the area around Calgary have been decimated by the floods. 
As we have very bitter winters -- Another Calgary lady and myself decided we would try to collect winter wear for those who were hurt by the floods. 

I have received pm's from 3 of the 'other side' telling me that they wish us well and were praying for us. I also have been promised a box of knitted projects from one of them. This is what the United States is about - or used to be - Thankfully it still is in many ways.

The results have been outstanding . No one who has volunteered has mentioned their political choices. I have received word from quite a few of our American neighbours and have already received parcels from two of them with quite a few more to come. No one cares what their Politics are - we all care that people are hurting. One Box is coming from NJ from a lady who lost everything in the hurricane. Canadian Firefighters from Ontario went down on their days off to help. She wanted to do something for our city to pay it forward. We have American firefighters who come here to help fight our forest fires and our firefighters go down there. It is what friends do.

No one cares what politics the volunteers have. 

That is what I love about the relationship between our two countries--- we care about each other -- we always have. When 9/11 happened we were just as devastated as if it had been one of our cities. We helped where we could (search - Gander, 9/11) this happened in 3 different Canadian cities. We still feel the same way. Our borders have had to be tightened - understandably, but isn't it a shame? 

People have asked me why I care about American Politics -- it is because I have strong feelings of 'sameness, but also our differences ' and have long been able to travel freely back and forth between our countries. I have found both British and American history very interesting. I always will. 

This thread is so important in my humble opinion.

I am going to sign off as appointments are waiting . Please give this thread a chance.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I herewith make a vow that I will not answer any personal attacks by anyone on either side of the Political spectrum while visiting this thread. I also vow that I will not answer personal attacks or make personal attacks on this thread.


* Will you vow not to personally attack others on this thread nor insult them no matter their opinions and political beliefs?

* Will you vow to not personally attack others by PM as you've sent others and me recently?

Please note these promises are different from your vow that you will not "answer" someone attacking you.

* It also requires you to vow that you will not _initiate _ an attack on another on _any _ thread because you vowed to not "respond" to an attack on this thread _only._

* I'll point out also you have not vowed to not initiate an attack elsewhere only here.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I will speak kindly as I would if we were face to face -- I will treat everyone as a respected acquaintance and if at all possible as a possible friend but never as an enemy.
> 
> If I slip and fall I will make amends and begin again. Thanks everyone. Cheeky


* Will you make amends for your prior 'falls' in this thread (posts you made attacking others)?

In particular, posts written by you on page 26, 27, 50, 52, 62, 66, etc.

These posts of yours are particularly aggressive and deplorable.

Your vow sounds nice, but apologies for your past egregious behavior (posts) are required and respectfully requested before your vow has meaning and purpose. Otherwise your vows are empty and meaningless words.

Thank you for your consideration and reply.

I speak only for myself of course, but I do look forward to your response.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Susan, my GF was not abusive to my GM as SEE--this is how nasty things gets blown out of context. They did not live on the reservation; therefore, lived among the whites as most of you hate, so they both dressed as everyone else did.


No, by the standards of the time your GGF was doing the right thing, just as Catholic priests were applauded for rounding up Native Americans and forcing them to live in the missions.

Now, of course, we know better--but after so many years it's difficult for both African- and Native Americans to pick up the pieces up their shattered cultures and try to fit them back together again.

I do believe Native Americans have an advantage here in that many tribes have managed to retain at least some of their languages and customs. It helps as well that there's a strong oral tradition that's preserved knowledge of the various family trees. Alas African-Americans often have a very difficult time tracing their histories as records are scanty and families were repeatedly broken up and dispersed all over the South.

Thinking about it, I believe the government owes its African-American citizens an concentrated effort to research and piece back together all these shattered family trees. It sounds like (probably is) a Herculean task, but advances in DNA research and collection probably now render it possible. The US government had no issue with people of African descent being brought to this country against their will--tracing these people and their descendants would be a step toward righting this terrible wrong.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree Susan - we have racism in Canada with our First Peoples -- who have spent their lives on Reservations, and many of the older ones who were forced into Reservation Schools, many who were terribly mistreated. There is still outspoken and not outspoken racism against first Nations People. The first nations who are alive right now have never known anything different. They have been raised living with the knowledge that they are 'different' and that no one expects them to accomplish anything so why should they try?
> 
> There are more and more who are fighting this feeling on the Reservations, but it is a long, slow tortured road. They, like the those who feel racism in the States, know it isn't fair ,but in my opinion don't know how to break out of the situation.


It's fascinating, Designer, to hear how the situation stands in other parts of North American--if only the final outcome was better! I know Canada does have very many fewer citizens of African descent and I would guess no sordid history of slave labor, but the story for Native Americans/First People reads about the same in both countries--and it's tragic.

One question: are Canadian 'Eskimos' [cringing as I'm sure the term is no longer correct, but I don't know what else to call them] seen as "First People" in the regular sense? Do they share the same problems as indigenous people living in the lower provinces?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane I hesitate to even interact with you as you are always so angry but I am not going to let you lie about me. I have never ever said F--- Y-- to anyone. If that was ever posted I did not see it and someone else did it and not me. I am not fighting battles for any particular ethnic group. We only started the thread off with MLK because of the 50th anniversary occurring at the same time and I believe it is a good thing to remember such important events in our history. Dr. King and all the people involved in the Civil Rights movement are owed a debt of gratitude from all of us and we must carry on their struggle for justice because we haven't reached equality in this country yet and we still have much to accomplish. Their struggle is our struggle. I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from but when you come out hear making false accusations and being so angry you scare people and they don't want to interact with you. We all know you are Native American so you don't need to tell us that anymore. We are all human beings Jane and that is what is important. This thread is for everyone but we have no time for people who cannot come here and be civil to others. If people want to argue there are other places to do that, not here. Have some respect for the people who want to post here please. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. I learned that fighting and getting nasty with people was pointless. It doesn't get us anywhere. If you can leave your anger at the door and have a nice discussion with no name calling you are welcome here and if you can't then please don't ruin this place for others that do. Thank you, Cheeky


LIE
On August 29,2013 at 16:44:07 you did drop 'the f bomb'

I apologize it was not you, but your friend Bratty

Again I apologize for the error, and meant no harm


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, you did say it as I have the quote & will post it when SIL helps me copy/post it on here as it does not lie! Nice try!


No she did not say F you. And you do not have a copy of it.
It wasn't up long enough for anyone to "copy" it.
How do I know all of this? Because *I* am the one who said it without any regrets. The only thing you have is what KPG sent you. So get your lying butt outta here.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she did not say F you. And you do not have a copy of it.
> It wasn't up long enough for anyone to "copy" it.
> How do I know all of this? Because *I* am the one who said it without any regrets. The only thing you have is what KPG sent you. So get your lying butt outta here.


Oh yes I do Again I apologize to Cheeky. It was Bratty Patty


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> LIE
> On August 29,2013 at 16:44:07 you did drop 'the f bomb'


LIAR!!!!!!! She did not drop the F bomb. Get your cast of characters straight if you are going to accuse somebody of something. And you can get your lying carcass out of here too!


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Interesting that I knew the exact date, hour and second it was posted


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh yes I do


You have a copy and yet you sit here and accuse Cheeky of it?
Get your lies straight LTL.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Keep posting, your reputation is falling below dirt level.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You have a copy and yet you sit here and accuse Cheeky of it?
> Get your lies straight LTL.


No you did

I apologize for saying the wrong person. It was you, no doubt about is


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Interesting that I knew the exact date, hour and second it was posted


Intersesting how you accuse the wrong person of saying it. Fool.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she did not say F you. And you do not have a copy of it.
> It wasn't up long enough for anyone to "copy" it.
> How do I know all of this? Because *I* am the one who said it without any regrets. The only thing you have is what KPG sent you. So get your lying butt outta here.


Wrong again dearie. I have a screen shot of your posts since you edited the first vulgar post, you reworded it and then allowed your third attempt to stand. Bless your heart, Admin also has copies of them too as well as at least one other KP member. Don't try to BS those who have computer technical skills that far exceed yours. You lose.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> No you did


In your previuos post you accused Cheeky. I am done with this now. Now run back to your own playground. Cherf is calling you.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

I apologize to Cheeky

It was you. I made a mistake, but the fool is you for using such language


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wrong again dearie. I have a screen shot of your posts since you edited the first vulgar post, you reworded it and then allowed your third attempt to stand. Bless your heart, Admin also has copies of them too. Don't try to BS those who have computer technical skills that far exceed yours. You lose.


I am not denying that I said it. If Admin has it, fine. I'm still here. How nice!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jane I hesitate to even interact with you as you are always so angry but I am not going to let you lie about me. I have never ever said F--- Y-- to anyone. If that was ever posted I did not see it and someone else did it and not me. I am not fighting battles for any particular ethnic group. We only started the thread off with MLK because of the 50th anniversary occurring at the same time and I believe it is a good thing to remember such important events in our history. Dr. King and all the people involved in the Civil Rights movement are owed a debt of gratitude from all of us and we must carry on their struggle for justice because we haven't reached equality in this country yet and we still have much to accomplish. Their struggle is our struggle. I have no idea where you get some of your ideas from but when you come out hear making false accusations and being so angry you scare people and they don't want to interact with you. We all know you are Native American so you don't need to tell us that anymore. We are all human beings Jane and that is what is important. This thread is for everyone but we have no time for people who cannot come here and be civil to others. If people want to argue there are other places to do that, not here. Have some respect for the people who want to post here please. I have no desire to fight with you or anyone else. I learned that fighting and getting nasty with people was pointless. It doesn't get us anywhere. If you can leave your anger at the door and have a nice discussion with no name calling you are welcome here and if you can't then please don't ruin this place for others that do. Thank you, Cheeky

LTL


> LIE
> On August 29,2013 at 16:44:07 you did drop 'the f bomb'
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No she did not say F you. And you do not have a copy of it.
> It wasn't up long enough for anyone to "copy" it.


You are lying again dear. Joeysomma has a copy of your post and I have an original screen shot.

Deny and lie is your game. Facts and the truth are mine.

You lose. Have a nice day.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> here is my vow --
> 
> I herewith make a vow that I will not answer any personal attacks by anyone on either side of the Political spectrum while visiting this thread. I also vow that I will not make personal attacks on this thread.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I apologize to Cheeky
> 
> It was you. I made a mistake, but the fool is you for using such language


I'm done with you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's fascinating, Designer, to hear how the situation stands in other parts of North American--if only the final outcome was better! I know Canada does have very many fewer citizens of African descent and I would guess no sordid history of slave labor, but the story for Native Americans/First People reads about the same in both countries--and it's tragic.
> 
> One question: are Canadian 'Eskimos' [cringing as I'm sure the term is no longer correct, but I don't know what else to call them] seen as "First People" in the regular sense? Do they share the same problems as indigenous people living in the lower provinces?


----------------
They have managed because of their location (far north) and they are now called Inuit)), - as far as I know to avoid the same history as the First Nations (Indian ) people. They were spread out in the north - over huge areas and I don't believe (although as soon as I can, I will check out my inofrmation) that they suffered the same type of discrimination as the First Nations people did and still do.

There is a lot of improvement in some areas, but we have so far to go on both sides. I am not an expert on this subject. I don't do many searches, I just don't have the time. All the opinions I express are from 82 years of living in a very interesting time where things have changed so much it is unbelievable.

I remember seeing movies where African Americans were servants - and as a child I thought nothing of it -- that is the way things were. The same as the Cowboys and Indians. But when I got older I started to really question the right or wrong of it. I followed all the freedom walks and the courage of some of the people both black and white in fighting the wrongs. Just as I followed the Women's movement in both our countries. So many great steps have been achieved - so much more to go.

I grew up in Western Canada and knew two Black young people when I was growing up.. there was no overt discrimination but there was hidden discrimination. Very few African Americans lived in the West. There were many more who lived in the Maritime Provinces who managed to escape through the underground railway. I read a lot about it but have not 
followed up with any further study. There are many that stayed in Canada - and their descendants still live there.

The stories of our treatment of the First Nations is much the same as in the States, but it was publicized so much more in movies and American history, which I was interested in. I remember that 'Tonto took 2nd place after the lone Ranger - I also remember 'Dances with wolves' as a movie that seemed to speak the truth about what really happened. We didn't have actual wars that I am aware of -- but we put all our Indians on Reservations and tried to wipe out their heritage, by sending the children away from their parents to Residential schools ,and making them wear 'white people' clothes, and not allowing them to speak their native language etc. Many were abused and many carried and still carry scars from their experiences, both emotional and physical. I was never aware, and never realized what was happening - It was accepted - it was the way things were.

We at least in some ways have tried to make amends. By paying money to the Reservation Indians -- this has not been a success in many ways, because they had been poor their whole lives, and suddently they individually were rich beyond their wildest dreams. Who can blame them for spending it unwisely.

Alcohol is a huge problem on the Reserves and it is through most of the reservations. The white man discovered early that Alcohol is like a poison for "First Nations people" and used it to rob and steal from them. (by the way - I have no Indian BLood, and have no axe to grind here].

I am not being racist about this -- it is a fact that the tribes are trying to deal with all over Canada. My husband was in the army and one of his best buddies was a Native American (First Peoples) they went to a restaurant and he was not allowed to eat there. He was well liked by those he worked with but not accepted out side their own group. Very sad. It made a huge impression on my Husband -

So it happens so often. To so many people who are 'different'.

I am enjoying this conversation with you. I am not an expert on this subject. I present my feelings but can be corrected if all my facts are off base by a bit. It is my memories from reading and having worked on a Reservation when I was very young and impressionable. I taught the women crafts and they taught me (many years ago) how they made their beautiful beaded outfits. Most of them are gone now. I had many friends there but there was still a slight pulling back - and who can blame them?

I admit to feeling shame for my white Government and my white 'superiority'. I still feel that in some ways.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are lying again dear. Joeysomma has a copy of your post and I have an original screen shot.
> 
> Deny and lie is your game. Facts and the truth are mine.
> 
> You lose. Have a nice day.


Facts and truth? Get on your knees and pray for your black soul, Cheryl.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Facts and truth?


Facts and truth. Confess you lie and stop running.

Seek God for everlasting life.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


I will not stand and allow you to post your lies.

I'll continue posting proof of your lies.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are lying again dear. Joeysomma has a copy of your post and I have an original screen shot.
> 
> Deny and lie is your game. Facts and the truth are mine.
> 
> You lose. Have a nice day.


Stop it!!!!


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


Stop it!!!!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


Nothing is settled. You've lied again and attacked others again and disrupted this thread yet again.

Confess to your lies, apologize and then settle into peace.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> LIE
> On August 29,2013 at 16:44:07 you did drop 'the f bomb'
> 
> I apologize it was not you, but your friend Bratty
> ...


Stop this!!!!!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are lying again dear. Joeysomma has a copy of your post and I have an original screen shot.
> 
> Deny and lie is your game. Facts and the truth are mine.
> 
> You lose. Have a nice day.


It's over and done with Cheryl.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Yes, you still have taken this out of the actual contents. I like so many other races have denied the full blood as I have had enough discrimination such as what you are telling now!
> 
> You read what you want about everyone then take the meanings to suit your own horrible agenda. So if you bring up anything else about my race I will report you every time! So zip it!


Stop this now! Both you and Huck!!!!!!!!!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Stop it!!!!


miatalover66,

You simply do not know the history of BrattyPatty and her posts on KP.

Please do not attempt to introduce yourself as a wedge where you do not understand the history between those being antagonized on this thread.

Thanks.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It was Bratty Patty!


 Stop it !!!!!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Also, Huck, on 5-27-13' Bratty wrote--welcome Huck, or should I say welcome back!
> 
> Who is Tom? Your partner?
> 
> Since you enjoy reading & making a mountain out of a mole hill, then I'll give more info on you.


Janeway
my Partner is my personal business.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> miatalover66,
> 
> You simply do not know the history of BrattyPatty and her posts on KP.
> 
> ...


Does not matter,just stop !! You are not accomplishing anything with this


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> miatalover66,
> 
> You simply do not know the history of BrattyPatty and her posts on KP.
> 
> ...


Drop it and get on.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


=============
I think the only way this thread can be successful is if we 
* do* ignore accusations - if we allow ourselves to 'bite' or reply - we are doing what is expected and what they want you to do ,and we lose the more important aspect of what you are trying to do here. If you reply, no matter how nasty the things you are replying too - you will be drawn into what you are trying to avoid and to change.

Let it go my dear. We all know that you fight for what you believe -- and you can't stand to see insults directed on your friends, but if you defend or reply you are doing what they want you to do. Stick to your vow ignore what is very hard to ignore. Those who want what you want on this thread will follow your lead. There are only one or two who do this to us all -- maybe 3 and they just don't get it soo -- let it go dear friend.

I wan't you to succeed here -- don't let them make you 
so angry or hurt that you allow yourself to respond. Let the past lie -- forget what has happened -- even if they won't. Please understand what I am suggesting. Try it for a month and see how it works.

I know how posts like that make you feel Bratty- but what you are trying to do here is so much more important.

Please don't allow them to bait you - don't answer. don't post one word in reply. It is the only way this thread can work, as they won't give it up , and they won't stop. so pretend their posts are not there. Please --

I believe that there are people on the Right on KP who are willing to talk, not fight. _ If I am right - lets let what has been said by both sides go and try to have a conversation_.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Drop it and get on.


BrattyPatty
Having a beautiful day here. Got some Flower beds cleaned op and a few bushes trimmed. Before too long the crew will prepare everything for the Winter.


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Wow ... 2 1/2 pages of he said/she said. Not moving this thread along at all, people. IF posters have had problems with others before, why in the name of common sense do they jump on that person's thread? Just go at it in PM and let the rest of the readers on Bratty Patty's Liberal POV thread enjoy our simple pleasure. By the way, this newbie to the thread is so pleased to make your e-quaintance, Designer and look forward to sharing postings with you and the others.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Wow ... 2 1/2 pages of he said/she said. Not moving this thread along at all, people. IF posters have had problems with others before, why in the name of common sense do they jump on that person's thread? Just go at it in PM and let the rest of the readers on Bratty Patty's Liberal POV thread enjoy our simple pleasure. By the way, this newbie to the thread is so pleased to make your e-quaintance, Designer and look forward to sharing postings with you and the others.


Pardon, but this thread was begun by CheekyBlighter not BrattyPatty.

I'm not correcting you to be critical but you'll be attacked for naming the wrong person as that is the very nature of the Lib POV thread her and elsewhere.

Nice to make your e-quaintance as well! Love that ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Wow ... 2 1/2 pages of he said/she said. Not moving this thread along at all, people. IF posters have had problems with others before, why in the name of common sense do they jump on that person's thread? Just go at it in PM and let the rest of the readers on Cheeky's Liberal POV thread enjoy our simple pleasure. By the way, this newbie to the thread is so pleased to make your e-quaintance, Designer and look forward to sharing postings with you and the others.


I am very glad to meet you too. I have heard so many people on the main forums talk about the "Political threads" and how nasty we are to each other and how personal and unkind they are - and who wish these threads were not allowed. I wish I could post and say visit the new thread where people are tying to talk to each other in a civilized way, even though they don't agree on many things.

I would love to carry on a conversation with you. Welcome.

I believe if we can do this others will join us rather than leave us.

I know Cheeky's intentions here - regardless of what has happened in the past.

I also know that some of those on the other side are faced with the same thing we are sadness at the nastiness and unkindness. Once something is said it is hard not to reply and hard not to carry grudges. - we believe so strongly, that we won't listen to anyone else's opinion. this is the place where we should listen to reasons, not nastiness.

I have no axe to grind so please listen -- it is important! We have to start somewhere - maybe this is the place and this is the thread.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am not being racist about this -- it is a fact that the tribes are trying to deal with all over Canada. My husband was in the army and one of his best buddies was a Native American (First Peoples) they went to a restaurant and he was not allowed to eat there. He was well liked by those he worked with but not accepted out side their own group. Very sad. It made a huge impression on my Husband -


No, I don't think for a minute that you are. It does feel like a tricky subject for Caucasians to discuss as we have no firsthand experience with overt and institutionalized racism. Wasn't it Malcolm X who commented that there was no need for the white Freedom Riders to come South, that the Northern ghettos had enough rats and roaches to keep them busy?

Of course there's more than a grain of truth in that--but no matter. Racism is a disease that cripples all of society--it's everyone's business for that reason alone.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

1234

The issue is that Bratty used language that was offensive to almost everyone. Unfortunately, someone else was blamed by error. Cheeky has been apologized to. But Bratty did say what she is accused of, and there is proof. So when she lectures others on what to say or believe, it is difficult to take her seriously.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Does not matter,just stop !! You are not accomplishing anything with this


Sorry for the rudeness, Mia. Ignore it and keep posting--your opinions are very welcome here.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> 1234
> 
> The issue is that Bratty used language that was offensive to almost everyone. Unfortunately, someone else was blamed by error. Cheeky has been apologized to. But Bratty did say what she is accused of, and there is proof. So when she lectures others on what to say or believe, it is difficult to take her seriously.


My only answer is that it is time to let the 'buts' and the 'only reason' go. If it is too difficult then you have the right not to join us. We are trying - we are asking you to try too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Having a beautiful day here. Got some Flower beds cleaned op and a few bushes trimmed. Before too long the crew will prepare everything for the Winter.


Ugh, is it that time already? The weather is gorgeous right now--I can't bear to think about rain and drizzle.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Wow ... 2 1/2 pages of he said/she said. Not moving this thread along at all, people. IF posters have had problems with others before, why in the name of common sense do they jump on that person's thread? Just go at it in PM and let the rest of the readers on Bratty Patty's Liberal POV thread enjoy our simple pleasure. By the way, this newbie to the thread is so pleased to make your e-quaintance, Designer and look forward to sharing postings with you and the others.


Yep, like touching a match to gasoline. But it's over now--let's go on with the discussion.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Sounds good to me. 

I have found the conversation with Susanmos2000 very satisfying today. I have been made to use my brain and now I am going to check out the history that I quoted and make sure I was correct. I am pretty busy and don't read a lot of American newspapers etc. I also don't always search my information. Pretty well give my opinions which are my own and don't worry about 'quotes' however, sometimes it is helpful if you can give a link to information so I will hopefully be able to back up my impression of the First Peoples' situation and history as well as that of the Inuit peoples of the far north. 

I think I might have gotten Bratty and Cheeky's names mixed up too. if so I am sorry . The names have changed over the past 4 years and as I don't join in often I get them mixed up. Sorry ladies. 

Al, are you there? how are things with you? Patti - how is the grandchild? I have missed you -- CB how are your Grandkids -- I hope things are going well with you. 

Joey - I hope things are good in your life. I was happy to see your post here. 

Well, back to the workshops - see you all later.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, I don't think for a minute that you are. It does feel like a tricky subject for Caucasians to discuss as we have no firsthand experience with overt and institutionalized racism. Wasn't it Malcolm X who commented that there was no need for the white Freedom Riders to come South, that the Northern ghettos had enough rats and roaches to keep them busy?
> 
> Of course there's more than a grain of truth in that--but no matter. Racism is a disease that cripples all of society--it's everyone's business for that reason alone.


susanmos2000
It seems when the Woolworth Lunch Counters disappeared after they finally where integrated, respect for each other did as well. For a while we had no problem lingering side by side no matter who we were and engaged in pleasant conversation. That personal touch is missing. Drive-ins just don't cut it.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> It seems when the Woolworth Lunch Counters disappeared after they finally where integrated, respect for each other did as well. For a while we had no problem lingering side by side no matter who we were and engaged in pleasant conversation. That personal touch is missing. Drive-ins just don't cut it.


It is very sad , both sides have things to answer for. We just have to start trying to do better in all aspects of our relationships, both political and personal - we have the right to disagree - we also should be careful how we disagree. just my opinion. I think I am out of here for awhile. Nice to talk to you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MIB has an interesting suggestion. I think we all have our lines in the sand we find impossible to ignore. Post by PM to someone you know will understand and see if that helps to defuse it. We're doing good.



susanmos2000 said:


> Designer1234, please you have no reason to apologize. Virtually everyone here wants to avoid trouble and spend time instead engaging in thought-provoking debate, but the provocation to lose one's temper can be intense. For what's it worth, I had no trouble whatsoever with your original post. The few troublemakers are easily identified, and it's almost impossible to refrain from scolding them at times. Please, don't worry about it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Many, many of us feel this way. I plan to do all I can.



Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou -- I believe so strongly in a forum like this one that Cheeky started. Where we can talk and even disagree but in a respectful way.
> 
> Maid in Bedlam expressed my feelings exactly.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am not being racist about this -- it is a fact that the tribes are trying to deal with all over Canada. My husband was in the army and one of his best buddies was a Native American (First Peoples) they went to a restaurant and he was not allowed to eat there. He was well liked by those he worked with but not accepted out side their own group. Very sad. It made a huge impression on my Husband -
> .


I can imagine! The situation is a bit different (but no better, needless to say) here in California. Of course I grew up watching the Lone Ranger and Tonto ("fool" ) on TV, plus all those generic cowboy movies that showed renegade "Indians" (the word we used in my childhood) running wild with tomahawks in their hands.

The funny thing is that I don't believe I've ever seen a single instance of discrimination against Native Americans with my own eyes. Here in California they exist, of course--but somehow they've been so pushed to the margins of society that they seem invisible. It wasn't until I was an adult that I set foot on a reservation and saw someone I knew absolutely was of Native American descent. And, of course, it was at a newly opened casino--a glittering palace filled with blackjack tables and slot machine, and few hundred yards behind it (barely visible) a row of houses that resembled chicken coops.

The contrast was startling and upsetting--for me it definitely dispelled the notion so common at the time that casinos were an easy "fix" for the problems plaguing the Native American tribes. Obviously it's much more complicated than that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

For everyone that posts here, many more read avidly. I feel it is essential to provide positive examples for inspiration. Sometimes people have heard 'you're worthless' 'you can't do that' so many times that they believe them. We need to provide new themes for people to hear.

Once again I will say that I think the international perspective of our 100,000 members strong lends us something valuable. Please chime in everyone. It helps us all.



Designer1234 said:


> Cheeky wrote: Now coming back to where we started, minorities are going through this same transitionary period that women went through. It takes a period of years for this to change and evolve before it is accepted as the norm. Hope I have contributed something useful to the conversation.
> ------------
> I so agree Cheeky-- it is the same journey, only there is a difficult road for minorities and has been through time in north America. ( Including Canada as far as First Peoples are concerned)
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And they have infuriated me since I was a child.



susanmos2000 said:


> You're very right, Designer. The code of behavior women and African-Americans have traditionally been expected to adhere to is explicit--don't raise your voice, be respectful no matter what the provocation, always put the interests of others (husbands, families, masters) before your own. In the 19th century women who flouted the code were accused of "un-sexing" themselves; in the 21st century they're labeled "b-tchy" and referred to as "b-llbreakers". In the Jim Crow era African-Americans with a sense of self-determination were denigrated as uppity and arrogant, and now--well, the same labels are still applied. Some things haven't changed!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, Shirley, for speaking from the heart. Change scares people. And there is nothing more inevitable than change.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agree.....but I think there is still a chance if we stick together to defeat the R&T's.



Queenmum said:


> Jelun and Alcameron, I wonder if you could rethink cutting the President a break. We all know he wanted single payer healthcare, as do I, and most of us on this thread. He also knew that no way was he getting it through Congress. I assume he thought it the first step in an incremental process, and reasonably believed that part of something was better than all of nothing. His biggest mistake, as far as I am concerned, is not accepting the fact that there was no way to work with the Rs and the Teas who consider bipartisanship defeat.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In my opinion, we have only Jane's 'word' to go by. I don't see any evidence that she is involved with the Native American Movement in any way except her self-professed genetics. "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee" is a good place to start.



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, Janeway, I think someone _should_ start a thread that deal with the Native American experience. Your own family history shows how abominably Native Americans have been treated, and the problems continue to this day. There are many similarities between the conditions both African- and Native Americans were subjected to: loss of language, homeland, and an almost total annihilation of culture. The problems these groups face are complicated, and the solutions even more so--an honest and open discussion is the only way to sort it all out.


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Re: Single payer healthcare....When I wrote copy for a racing publication, I would hammer out a draft of what needed to be said, willy nilly. I'd go back a few hours later and start moving, deleting, adding, and sometimes starting over. It's all a process. The health care in this day and age is in a critical state... I just spent 2 years on disability, with no insurance and it was terrifying to know if I made one misstep I would be out on the street. We have to do better than that. The health care system needs to be examined, top to toe, and the first step will be the hardest and the messiest, just like my drafts. Sure Obamacare isn't perfect, but we can't fix it if we refuse to open up the topic by not funding.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I can imagine! The situation is a bit different (but no better, needless to say) here in California. Of course I grew up watching the Lone Ranger and Tonto ("fool" ) on TV, plus all those generic cowboy movies that showed renegade "Indians" (the word we used in my childhood) running wild with tomahawks in their hands.
> 
> The funny thing is that I don't believe I've ever seen a single instance of discrimination against Native Americans with my own eyes. Here in California they exist, of course--but somehow they've been so pushed to the margins of society that they seem invisible. It wasn't until I was an adult that I set foot on a reservation and saw someone I knew absolutely was of Native American descent. And, of course, it was at a newly opened casino--a glittering palace filled with blackjack tables and slot machine, and few hundred yards behind it (barely visible) a row of houses that resembled chicken coops.
> 
> The contrast was startling and upsetting--for me it definitely dispelled the notion so common at the time that casinos were an easy "fix" for the problems plaguing the Native American tribes. Obviously it's much more complicated than that.


It is the same here - the Casinos are a great way to obtain income for the tribe - however it is extremely important that the funds be managed properly and this has not been the case on all reservations.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> It seems when the Woolworth Lunch Counters disappeared after they finally where integrated, respect for each other did as well. For a while we had no problem lingering side by side no matter who we were and engaged in pleasant conversation. That personal touch is missing. Drive-ins just don't cut it.


Absolutely, Huck. It sounded crass when I suggested that money might be the great equalizer in race relations, but I still think it's true. It's kind of obscene that the most bigoted store owner would open his doors to people he not-so-openly despised, but at least it was one thing that brought people together. I can imagine a shopkeeper watching his African-American customers worrying about high prices, giving in to the temptation to buy a child a toy or treat, expressing pleasure over some unexpected sale or hard-to-find item--and perhaps coming to the realization that people aren't so different under their skins after all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do publicly promise.



Designer1234 said:


> It seems as if we are once again getting off the track. I would suggest that we *ignore* personal posts against each other.
> 
> Let us stop getting into personal unkind posts - no matter if we think we are right! The other threads can remain for those purposes.
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, ladies--time to collect my son from school. Hope everyone has a pleasant afternoon--bazinga!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The only answer is to ignore all of them totally. No matter how innocuous or how vile.

Please pledge again.



miatalover66 said:


> Stop it!!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you see what I've noticed. One of them starts 'innocently' escalating into 'you did this' and ending with more joining in to drive us crazy(-ier?).

You are right. All must be totally ignored by all of us.

The more we flinch, the longer it takes.

I don't want to lose this precious group for free and enjoyable discussion. It's one or the other.



miatalover66 said:


> Stop it !!!!!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh yes she/he does. Mentally ill. No contact at home. Craves attention. All the time in the world. (Note: I am not talking to her. )



miatalover66 said:


> Does not matter,just stop !! You are not accomplishing anything with this


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> =============
> I think the only way this thread can be successful is if we
> * do* ignore accusations - if we allow ourselves to 'bite' or reply - we are doing what is expected and what they want you to do ,and we lose the more important aspect of what you are trying to do here. If you reply, no matter how nasty the things you are replying too - you will be drawn into what you are trying to avoid and to change.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Amen. You speak the truth so well.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

midwegian said:


> Wow ... 2 1/2 pages of he said/she said. Not moving this thread along at all, people. IF posters have had problems with others before, why in the name of common sense do they jump on that person's thread? Just go at it in PM and let the rest of the readers on Bratty Patty's Liberal POV thread enjoy our simple pleasure. By the way, this newbie to the thread is so pleased to make your e-quaintance, Designer and look forward to sharing postings with you and the others.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I grew up in strong union times. I saw the breakdown as greed took over the ones who ran the unions. (I see a connection with the way corporations are run now. ) 

Will unions come back? Will something take their place? Is labor, as we knew it, dead?

What is your opinion?


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> I grew up in strong union times. I saw the breakdown as greed took over the ones who ran the unions. (I see a connection with the way corporations are run now. )
> 
> Will unions come back? Will something take their place? Is labor, as we knew it, dead?
> 
> What is your opinion?


Dame Mary, labor in general has changed so radically that we can barely wrap our minds around it. Just the use of robotics and software has rendered so many jobs redundant throughout the system. College requirements are moving the finish line, too. A bachelor of whatever is just a stutter step toward a needed masters or doctorate. I don't see how we can progress and still have enough jobs for all that need them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know. I'm baffled but I don't see how we can address economics without it.

Colleges don't seem to be able to address what corporations need for high tech jobs either.

Any research ideas gang?



midwegian said:


> Dame Mary, labor in general has changed so radically that we can barely wrap our minds around it. Just the use of robotics and software has rendered so many jobs redundant throughout the system. College requirements are moving the finish line, too. A bachelor of whatever is just a stutter step toward a needed masters or doctorate. I don't see how we can progress and still have enough jobs for all that need them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I hear what you are saying, midwegian. A BA or BS doesn't get you too far these days. 
If we could work on our infrastructure alone,many, many jobs would be created.I say this often only because I strongly believe it. Railroad tracks are in dire need of repair not to mention bridges and highways. Clean energy such as wind turbines to help cut down on the use of oil and electricity.People have to build these. We will always need computer programmers, software design engineers, mechanics etc.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary, unions are still going strong in some cities.
Just for the heck of it I did some research on how many unions are still going strong in Vegas and you would be surprised at the number of unions that are established out there. I remeber before I left there the Frontier Hotel (which is no longer there) was trying to oust the Culinary Union. That union covered, chefs, bartenders, busboys, waiters, maitre'd's, waitresses, both food and cocktail and so much more. They brought in scabs to work and for 5 years the culinary union picketed. Not only did the hotel suffer because of bad service, but other unions such as the teamsters and musicians refused to work in that hotel also.
It was sold and the new owner brought the union workers back.
By that time they were new union employees. Those who continued to picket round the clock were absorbed into new hotels and hotels that were expanding. After their shifts they would change close, pick up their signs and continue to protest.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hear what you are saying, midwegian. A BA or BS doesn't get you too far these days.
> If we could work on our infrastructure alone,many, many jobs would be created.I say this often only because I strongly believe it. Railroad tracks are in dire need of repair not to mention bridges and highways. Clean energy such as wind turbines to help cut down on the use of oil and electricity.People have to build these. We will always need computer programmers, software design engineers, mechanics etc.


I agree Patti. There is work out there we just have to on both sides agree to put the blocks in place so that these things can be accomplished. It never will be if all the time is spent trying to sink the other side. you have to work together. My son works for one of the major Cdn' airlines.

7 years ago he and others in his union were threatened with the fact that the airline would declare bankruptcy and all the jobs would be gone. Finally after much soul searching the major union agreed to accept a 20% cut in their pay, on the promise that they would get it back plus 5% in 2 years.(my figures might not be exact- this is from what I have heard from those who cut back) that was 7 years ago. He still doesn't make the money he made then it was never given back nor was the pay incsreased as promised. The president of that Company made millions of dollars, quit and is now living off shore from Florida living like a king. this is a fact.

You wonder why people have no faith in big business. they are still trying to recover from this and both Management and unions are trying to solve their problems but there is so much bitterness there.

I believe in Unions, but I also realize that some unions have overstepped. It is the individuals who get a taste of power. I always have felt that power corrupts but have absolutely no idea how to solve that. By the way that is a Canadian company- It is still running and trying to keep it's head above water. Many American Airlines have gone belly up -- I don't know what the answer is. I do know from what I have read that the people at the top in many many cases, in these companies still take bonuses of up to millions of dollars. to me it isn't a fair way to deal with the situation. I think that is why some of us keep harping back to the Rich in comparison to the middle class and the poor. It is not right -- I am not talking about All CEO's and executives but if you read the news many many of them think they deserve huge bonuses. What about the average employee who goes to work every day, does his sometimes very difficult job and tries to live his life and possibly receive a small bonus if he does a good job, and also tries to meet the upward cost of living and the recession. (The recession is happening up here too).

that same thing is damaging our health care system. They are cutting back services in every area, but they still manage to vote themselves large bonus. Where is that right? They justify it as they are the brains and responsible. If they are challenged they quit and get an appointment on another Board or as CEO of another company and get their huge bonuses each year. You read in the paper that millions of dollars of bonuses are justified, but those quotes are from the people who are getting the bonuses. what about the average joe who does his job and slowly becomes poor because there are no raises and no health care and no unions to protect their interest. It is sad but it is interesting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes, Shirley, it happened to a Minnesota based airline, Northwest. They were fighting with the union for years to cut pay on every worker. They filed for bankruptcy protection. Many jobs were cut. Flight attendants and pilots
were spending more time in the air than what was allowed. The flights were not pleasant. Finally, the company as bought out by Delta Airlines. Many NW Airline pilots lost their pensions along with baggage handlers, flight attendants etc. Not one dime went back to the employees.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

As for getting anything accomplished as far as our infrastructure goes, we do need people in both Houses to recognize the problem. Unfortunately, it will take another bridge collapse and loss of lives to open their eyes to it again. It's not just 2 parties fighting, but it is 3 different groups fighting within one party. They can't agree on anything, so therefore nothing gets brought to the table for the other party to disagree on. It is such a mess and a shame for the American people.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I haven't been here all day, so I apologize if this is out of place or changing the subject. I have to write it before I forget it all!

This morning on NPR there was an interview with a woman who has written a book entitled Behind Kitchen Doors, about the wages and working conditions of restaurant servers and kitchen workers. She is the director of the Food Labor Research Center, UC Berkeley. The other NRA, the National Restaurant Association has lobbyists in Washington, DC putting pressure on Congressmen to avoid taking action on servers/kitchen workers minimum wages. Currently, the owners believe that we, the public, ought to be responsible for paying the workers through tips. They have a formula that tips plus wages can equal minimum wage by law, which is currently $7.75. Using this formula, the owners often end up paying an average of $2.13/hr, figuring that the customer pays the rest in tips to bring the average minimum wage to 7.75. What a racket! I also learned that these workers don't have any benefits or sick days, which means they often go to work sick because they can't afford to lose the pay. The thought of a sick person with a bad cough or dripping nose or hepatitis making my soup or salad doesn't fill me with joy. The other thing she brought out was that big chain restaurants are operating on a 4 or 5% profit margin and could afford to pay better wages by adding just a small amount to the customers' cost. There are about 100 restaurants across the US that are privately owned in which the owners are paying food workers a fair wage, and the Food Labor Center found that the prices at these places are not significantly higher than the places that pay lower than minimum age plus tips. Restaurant workers used to be represented by a union, but the owners have been successful in "busting" most of them. Employees also charge that there is discrimination in who gets the "better" jobs at the restaurants. Hispanics and African Americans work most often in the kitchen while white men get the choice evening serving jobs at first class restaurants. Women often get to serve breakfast and lunch, not often getting hired to wait tables in first class restaurants for the evening meal. Fairness issues are items that could be addressed by a union if they could freely organize in restaurants. It was an interesting interview and I'm sorry I didn't catch the whole program.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Al,
We had a man running for Governor here in Minnesota , Tom Emmer, who said if elected he would do just what you described. Lower their wages to below 2.50 per hour. He deemed that waiters, bartenders and waitresses were making 6 figures a year. Fortunately for culinary workers in Minnesota, he lost. Big time. Some forget that tips are also taxed. He went to work for one bar/restaurant in Minneapolis to prove his point. He hardly received any tips at all. I think his campaign was pretty much over that day.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I haven't been here all day, so I apologize if this is out of place or changing the subject. I have to write it before I forget it all!
> 
> This morning on NPR there was an interview with a woman who has written a book entitled Behind Kitchen Doors, about the wages and working conditions of restaurant servers and kitchen workers. She is the director of the Food Labor Research Center, UC Berkeley. The other NRA, the National Restaurant Association has lobbyists in Washington, DC putting pressure on Congressmen to avoid taking action on servers/kitchen workers minimum wages. Currently, the owners believe that we, the public, ought to be responsible for paying the workers through tips. They have a formula that tips plus wages can equal minimum wage by law, which is currently $7.75. Using this formula, the owners often end up paying an average of $2.13/hr, figuring that the customer pays the rest in tips to bring the average minimum wage to 7.75. What a racket! I also learned that these workers don't have any benefits or sick days, which means they often go to work sick because they can't afford to lose the pay. The thought of a sick person with a bad cough or dripping nose or hepatitis making my soup or salad doesn't fill me with joy. The other thing she brought out was that big chain restaurants are operating on a 4 or 5% profit margin and could afford to pay better wages by adding just a small amount to the customers' cost. There are about 100 restaurants across the US that are privately owned in which the owners are paying food workers a fair wage, and the Food Labor Center found that the prices at these places are not significantly higher than the places that pay lower than minimum age plus tips. Restaurant workers used to be represented by a union, but the owners have been successful in "busting" most of them. Employees also charge that there is discrimination in who gets the "better" jobs at the restaurants. Hispanics and African Americans work most often in the kitchen while white men get the choice evening serving jobs at first class restaurants. Women often get to serve breakfast and lunch, not often getting hired to wait tables in first class restaurants for the evening meal. Fairness issues are items that could be addressed by a union if they could freely organize in restaurants. It was an interesting interview and I'm sorry I didn't catch the whole program.


Very interesting Al. I was reading our local paper and there was an article today about MacDonalds and other fast food outlets and their poor pay -- I would imagine it was about what you heard. So many people taking advantage.! nice to see you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Very interesting Al. I was reading our local paper and there was an article today about MacDonalds and other fast food outlets and their poor pay -- I would imagine it was about what you heard. So many people taking advantage.! nice to see you.


Nice to see you, too, Shirley. Welcome..
Personally, I am very upset when I hear about management gleefully "busting" the unions. Although some unions and union presidents have gotten out of hand (to say the least) I don't think people remember how much unions have contributed to the present day workplace. Young people, in particular, have no regard for union workers because to them unions are things of the past. Today we wouldn't have a 40 hr work week, or vacation time, sick leave, insurance, etc., as well as fairness and dignity in the workplace. Many will say that the unions aren't necessary anymore, but I don't think workers can rely on the good will of employers for fair wages and good working conditions. Witness what's going on with the food workers right now.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You asked for opinions. Here is mine. I think unions have priced themselves almost out of business. My sister was working for a trucking company, in the office. The company was having financial difficulties, they asked for a renegotiation with the union to take a pay cut. I believe hers would have been about $.75 an hour. The union refused and the company closed. Rather than taking a pay cut and still have a job, they had no job.


Joey -- I agree with you -- certainly in some if not many cases. However, I grew up with the union movement and it was a good thing at the beginning before the unions got greedy. I am wondering where there is a way checks and balances could be put upon unions so that they could deal with Management in a way that is good for the company and certainly good for the back bone of the company, the employees - I also believe that Management who are responsible for the way the companies are run, should make a very good wage. I don't think that means making millions of dollars in bonuses when no raise is given to the average worker - How this could be achieved now, I don't know. I know this would be difficult if it is possible. I believe that one of the core reasons is that the employees saw the CEO's and Managers taking in huge amount of money in bonuses for work done by the employees. So as a result the employees felt that they should get some of the profits too.

The problem we have in this day and age is that no one puts the other person's rights in the forefront, people have agendas. But isn't it a shame- that greed by Union representatives in some cases and by Management in other cases cause the little guy who does the work , his job, or decent pay. The Unions demand outrageous increases and the employees go along with it because 
they don't trust Management. what a mess.

I don't see how the situation can be corrected without the whole business re written, and who would agree to that? no one. It is very sad as the idea of Unions in the beginning was a good thing. As employees were being down trodden by bosses who would hardly part with a living wage for their employees.

We have Banks here in Canada that make millions and millions of dollars of profit but still won't allow a union. It might mean some of the profits go to the employees. 
This happens in many businesses. Personally and I am a 'hated' liberal -- I want the owners, CEO's to make good money for what they do - mainly their expertise, but I also feel strongly that the employees should have some portion of the profits in decent pay for a day's work, and overtime if it is necessary. I don't pretend to know what the answer is.

I do think that none of these problems will ever be solved until people in Government on both sides,forget their own agendas and try to work together rather than do everything possible to avoid working together. I am no expert but fighting never did solve anything. It just makes people dig their heels in. (The other threads on KP are an example) I believe that the only way this can happen is if elected officials know that they won't be voted in unless they make an effort to solve problems rather than cause problems and that will only happen if the people decide enough is enough and give up their differences in as many ways as possible and start to demand answers for solving the problems. At least make the choice of communicating rather than refusing to even talk.

I would honestly like to have a conversation with you about many of these issues. Remembering I am a Canadian and some of the problems are here too. I admit I really don't understand what the main differences are between my thoughts about these things and your thoughts about these things.

_I am not in any way meaning to take you on here. I would honestly like to know whether you agree with me or whether you have some other solution. I have given my opinion - what do you feel is the answer? Please post your thoughts. I want to know. I am not here to argue with you -- I am here to discuss our differences with you_.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bazinga for now ladies. We are off to take GD for a nice long walk.Perfect weather here today.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Oh yes she/he does. Mentally ill. No contact at home. Craves attention. All the time in the world. (Note: I am not talking to her. )


I sure hope this is the last time you break your pledge which you made only three posts prior.

Please don't make excuses and parse your words - you vowed no personal attacks so insults _about _ a person instead of _ to _ a person is still you breaking your public promise.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

I don't know but I do know they were important once. It makes sense to me that they could become relevant again. So many are struggling to make ends meet, maintain homes but are falling farther and farther behind. My mother grew up during the Great Depression,and credits Roosevelt for my grandfather being able to work in a meat packing plant here. I am sure lots of you out there have similar family stories of hardship. That has played an important role in my choices for political office and my lifelong work in nursing.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> I don't know but I do know they were important once. It makes sense to me that they could become relevant again. So many are struggling to make ends meet, maintain homes but are falling farther and farther behind. My mother grew up during the Great Depression,and credits Roosevelt for my grandfather being able to work in a meat packing plant here. I am sure lots of you out there have similar family stories of hardship. That has played an important role in my choices for political office and my lifelong work in nursing.


Sorry, realized my last post did not make sense without the quote


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Joey -- I agree with you -- certainly in some if not many cases. However, I grew up with the union movement and it was a good thing at the beginning before the unions got greedy. I am wondering where there is a way checks and balances could be put upon unions so that they could deal with Management in a way that is good for the company and certainly good for the back bone of the company, the employees - I also believe that Management who are responsible for the way the companies are run, should make a very good wage. I don't think that means making millions of dollars in bonuses when no raise is given to the average worker - How this could be achieved now, I don't know. I know this would be difficult if it is possible. I believe that one of the core reasons is that the employees saw the CEO's and Managers taking in huge amount of money in bonuses for work done by the employees. So as a result the employees felt that they should get some of the profits too.
> Someday will get this done right the first time, see my redundant posts
> 
> The problem we have in this day and age is that no one puts the other person's rights in the forefront, people have agendas. But isn't it a shame- that greed by Union representatives in some cases and by Management in other cases cause the little guy who does the work , his job, or decent pay. The Unions demand outrageous increases and the employees go along with it because
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> I don't know but I do know they were important once. It makes sense to me that they could become relevant again. So many are struggling to make ends meet, maintain homes but are falling farther and farther behind. My mother grew up during the Great Depression,and credits Roosevelt for my grandfather being able to work in a meat packing plant here. I am sure lots of you out there have similar family stories of hardship. That has played an important role in my choices for political office and my lifelong work in nursing.


I agree with you, Mia. Unions have played a significant role in our nation's history, and despite some inevitable episodes of corruption and inefficiency I believe they're still important.

It's interesting to note as well that the unions played no small role in the Civil Rights movement. It was E.D. Nixon of the BSCP (Brotherhood of Sleeping Car Porters) who brought MLK to Montgomery to support the bus boycott.

King was certainly pro-union. The organization he founded, Poor People's Campaign, regarded them as crucial in the struggle for equal rights, both for people of color and for the economically disadvantaged overall.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Designer, I appreciate your thoughtful posting on unions, management and our government bodies. You summed up the cycle so well. I've worked non-union jobs all my life and, while I adored what I did, I and others suffered from many injustices and had no job security; when I could no longer work in my field due to old work-related injuries and just plain old hard, hard work, I was replaced w/ those who are younger, with more stamina, but no where near the insight or experience. They work for whatever is offered and somehow think they will find the elevator to the top. Poor kids.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Has anyone on the thread kept up with NoLabels.org?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nice to see you, too, Shirley. Welcome..
> Personally, I am very upset when I hear about management gleefully "busting" the unions. Although some unions and union presidents have gotten out of hand (to say the least) I don't think people remember how much unions have contributed to the present day workplace. Young people, in particular, have no regard for union workers because to them unions are things of the past. Today we wouldn't have a 40 hr work week, or vacation time, sick leave, insurance, etc., as well as fairness and dignity in the workplace. Many will say that the unions aren't necessary anymore, but I don't think workers can rely on the good will of employers for fair wages and good working conditions. Witness what's going on with the food workers right now.


I agree with you l00%


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now that that is settled I will vow to try. I will not stand and have any one my friends accused of something that they did not do. It's just not right.


I love you Patty and am your friend. They have been cruel to you for a long time now and I thank you for vowing to try. These people have even attacked your beautiful family but you know good will ultimately triumph over evil and remember "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God". Lean on your friends when it gets hard and let's try to be peacmakers and not let anyone "turn us around, 'cause we ain't going back there no more". You know who we are and we will always be there for you just as you have been for us. Cheeky


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

I love reading your posts. You put a lot of thought into your writing.



Designer1234 said:


> I agree Patti. There is work out there we just have to on both sides agree to put the blocks in place so that these things can be accomplished. It never will be if all the time is spent trying to sink the other side. you have to work together. My son works for one of the major Cdn' airlines.
> 
> 7 years ago he and others in his union were threatened with the fact that the airline would declare bankruptcy and all the jobs would be gone. Finally after much soul searching the major union agreed to accept a 20% cut in their pay, on the promise that they would get it back plus 5% in 2 years.(my figures might not be exact- this is from what I have heard from those who cut back) that was 7 years ago. He still doesn't make the money he made then it was never given back nor was the pay incsreased as promised. The president of that Company made millions of dollars, quit and is now living off shore from Florida living like a king. this is a fact.
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Quite a crowd! I a glad to see my Senator Amy Klobuchar as part of the group. I haven't looked into this before, but will now!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Patti -- I am sorry I got you and cheeky mixed up. I am glad to see you and I hope everything is good with you. It is nice to be back -- and I hope we can have a productive conversation here , rather than a continued negative


I have hope for this thread -- I have believed all along that with cooperation from those of us who want to find a solution that it can happen if we let all the bad stuff die out, by letting our frustration and dislike go. It would be such a great thread if we didn't speak negatively to, or about those who we have had issues with. If we ignore bad posts from anyone - we win a peaceful thread. If we choose to discuss them or to join them in a nasty dialogue then this thread has no hope. I feel strongly that some of them want a conversation too. I might be wrong but I hate to see 3or 4 at the most people sink this thread because we let them.

I imagine your 'little one is over a year old now? I have wondered how you were doing. 

Any way it is so nice to have conversations -- Susan it has been a pleasure. I have to get to work on the workshops but I will be back. I promise I will keep my word about my posts when I come back on herehere.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Patti -- I am sorry I got you and cheeky mixed up. I am glad to see you and I hope everything is good with you. It is nice to be back -- and I hope we can
> 
> I have hope for this thread -- I have believed all along that with cooperation from those of us who want to find a solution that it can happen if we let all the bad stuff die out, by letting our frustration and dislike go. It would be such a great thread if we didn't speak negatively to, or about those who we have had issues with. If we ignore bad posts from anyone - we win a peaceful thread. If we choose to discuss them or to join them in a nasty dialogue then this thread has no hope. I feel strongly that some of them want a conversation too. I might be wrong but I hate to see 3or 4 at the most people sink this thread because we let them.
> 
> ...


Yes, Shirley she just turned a year 2 weeks ago. She is taking a few steps now. Thanks for asking about her. You are correct. We can't let 3 or 4 ruin this great thread.
Hugs!


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Shirley she just turned a year 2 weeks ago. She is taking a few steps now. Thanks for asking about her. You are correct. We can't let 3 or 4 ruin this great thread.
> Hugs!


Count me in on the hug.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Al,
> We had a man running for Governor here in Minnesota , Tom Emmer, who said if elected he would do just what you described. Lower their wages to below 2.50 per hour. He deemed that waiters, bartenders and waitresses were making 6 figures a year. Fortunately for culinary workers in Minnesota, he lost. Big time. Some forget that tips are also taxed. He went to work for one bar/restaurant in Minneapolis to prove his point. He hardly received any tips at all. I think his campaign was pretty much over that day.


I remember reading about that guy when I was in Minnesota last year. Good thing he lost! Seems like Mark Dayton is doing a great job.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I love you Patty and am your friend. They have been cruel to you for a long time now and I thank you for vowing to try. These people have even attacked your beautiful family but you know good will ultimately triumph over evil and remember "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God". Lean on your friends when it gets hard and let's try to be peacmakers and not let anyone "turn us around, 'cause we ain't going back there no more". You know who we are and we will always be there for you just as you have been for us. Cheeky


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Shirley she just turned a year 2 weeks ago. She is taking a few steps now. Thanks for asking about her. You are correct. We can't let 3 or 4 ruin this great thread.
> Hugs!


New photo due!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It is very sad , both sides have things to answer for. We just have to start trying to do better in all aspects of our relationships, both political and personal - we have the right to disagree - we also should be careful how we disagree. just my opinion. I think I am out of here for awhile. Nice to talk to you.


Shirley thanks for your input and support for keeping this thread positive and friendly. Have a nice evening. Cheeky


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley thanks for your input and support for keeping this thread positive and friendly. Have a nice evening. Cheeky


you are very welcome. I really think this thread is important -- and much needed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Count me in on the hug.


Hug going to miata!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> New photo due!


I have one of her covered in birthday cake. Would you like to see that one?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Now here is a twist. Someone bought an old established Enterprise and found out that a Secretary (female) was being paid MUCH more than a number of Men in positions more valuable to the company than hers. In addition she had benefits the Men did not have like being off Saturdays and Mondays and on the other days never came in before 10 AM. Solution, pay was adjusted for the Men and her hours were changed. Now I call that equality and fairness. We all should have such bosses.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what we need all over. Arizona is a 'right to work' state. Truthfully, all I see is it's horrible for labor. Salaries for all jobs are below national median.



BrattyPatty said:


> damemary, unions are still going strong in some cities.
> Just for the heck of it I did some research on how many unions are still going strong in Vegas and you would be surprised at the number of unions that are established out there. I remeber before I left there the Frontier Hotel (which is no longer there) was trying to oust the Culinary Union. That union covered, chefs, bartenders, busboys, waiters, maitre'd's, waitresses, both food and cocktail and so much more. They brought in scabs to work and for 5 years the culinary union picketed. Not only did the hotel suffer because of bad service, but other unions such as the teamsters and musicians refused to work in that hotel also.
> It was sold and the new owner brought the union workers back.
> By that time they were new union employees. Those who continued to picket round the clock were absorbed into new hotels and hotels that were expanding. After their shifts they would change close, pick up their signs and continue to protest.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In my opinion a bridge collapse won't help unless Congress is on it.



BrattyPatty said:


> As for getting anything accomplished as far as our infrastructure goes, we do need people in both Houses to recognize the problem. Unfortunately, it will take another bridge collapse and loss of lives to open their eyes to it again. It's not just 2 parties fighting, but it is 3 different groups fighting within one party. They can't agree on anything, so therefore nothing gets brought to the table for the other party to disagree on. It is such a mess and a shame for the American people.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Now here is a twist. Someone bought an old established Enterprise and found out that a Secretary (female) was being paid MUCH more than a number of Men in positions more valuable to the company than hers. In addition she had benefits the Men did not have like being off Saturdays and Mondays and on the other days never came in before 10 AM. Solution, pay was adjusted for the Men and her hours were changed. Now I call that equality and fairness. We all should have such bosses.


My first job after college. (Olden days) Men made $100 more per year than women. There was a "head of household" clause.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This tips + pittance = minimum wage is bunk.

I keep getting madder at Congress. There are so many important issues that need addressed and they do nothing. Just collect their pay and call recess. What has to happen? Or do I move to Costa Rica and grow orchids?



alcameron said:


> I haven't been here all day, so I apologize if this is out of place or changing the subject. I have to write it before I forget it all!
> 
> This morning on NPR there was an interview with a woman who has written a book entitled Behind Kitchen Doors, about the wages and working conditions of restaurant servers and kitchen workers. She is the director of the Food Labor Research Center, UC Berkeley. The other NRA, the National Restaurant Association has lobbyists in Washington, DC putting pressure on Congressmen to avoid taking action on servers/kitchen workers minimum wages. Currently, the owners believe that we, the public, ought to be responsible for paying the workers through tips. They have a formula that tips plus wages can equal minimum wage by law, which is currently $7.75. Using this formula, the owners often end up paying an average of $2.13/hr, figuring that the customer pays the rest in tips to bring the average minimum wage to 7.75. What a racket! I also learned that these workers don't have any benefits or sick days, which means they often go to work sick because they can't afford to lose the pay. The thought of a sick person with a bad cough or dripping nose or hepatitis making my soup or salad doesn't fill me with joy. The other thing she brought out was that big chain restaurants are operating on a 4 or 5% profit margin and could afford to pay better wages by adding just a small amount to the customers' cost. There are about 100 restaurants across the US that are privately owned in which the owners are paying food workers a fair wage, and the Food Labor Center found that the prices at these places are not significantly higher than the places that pay lower than minimum age plus tips. Restaurant workers used to be represented by a union, but the owners have been successful in "busting" most of them. Employees also charge that there is discrimination in who gets the "better" jobs at the restaurants. Hispanics and African Americans work most often in the kitchen while white men get the choice evening serving jobs at first class restaurants. Women often get to serve breakfast and lunch, not often getting hired to wait tables in first class restaurants for the evening meal. Fairness issues are items that could be addressed by a union if they could freely organize in restaurants. It was an interesting interview and I'm sorry I didn't catch the whole program.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Al,
> We had a man running for Governor here in Minnesota , Tom Emmer, who said if elected he would do just what you described. Lower their wages to below 2.50 per hour. He deemed that waiters, bartenders and waitresses were making 6 figures a year. Fortunately for culinary workers in Minnesota, he lost. Big time. Some forget that tips are also taxed. He went to work for one bar/restaurant in Minneapolis to prove his point. He hardly received any tips at all. I think his campaign was pretty much over that day.


I wonder why his campaign was over. No Spin Doctor?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> In my opinion a bridge collapse won't help unless Congress is on it.


   :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Nice to see you, too, Shirley. Welcome..
> Personally, I am very upset when I hear about management gleefully "busting" the unions. Although some unions and union presidents have gotten out of hand (to say the least) I don't think people remember how much unions have contributed to the present day workplace. Young people, in particular, have no regard for union workers because to them unions are things of the past. Today we wouldn't have a 40 hr work week, or vacation time, sick leave, insurance, etc., as well as fairness and dignity in the workplace. Many will say that the unions aren't necessary anymore, but I don't think workers can rely on the good will of employers for fair wages and good working conditions. Witness what's going on with the food workers right now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I wonder why his campaign was over. No Spin Doctor?


He was being taped as he did the job. When he got off shift, some service people came and dumped a jar of pennies on him and said "here are your tips". It was on every local news channel that night. He couldn't spin it if he wanted to.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> This tips + pittance = minimum wage is bunk.
> 
> I keep getting madder at Congress. There are so many important issues that need addressed and they do nothing. Just collect their pay and call recess. What has to happen? Or do I move to Costa Rica and grow orchids?


I love orchids! I hear Costa Rica has some beautiful beaches too! But no, I wouldn't want you to leave.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not familiar with it. Enlighten me, please.



midwegian said:


> Has anyone on the thread kept up with NoLabels.org?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm not familiar with it. Enlighten me, please.


It is a site where it shows 83 Senators and Reps who are trying to work together to really get things done. There are Dems, Repubs, and Independents. There are several blogs to read. I haven't gotten that far, but will.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've got your back. Anyone I want to know can see the quality of your character.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I love you Patty and am your friend. They have been cruel to you for a long time now and I thank you for vowing to try. These people have even attacked your beautiful family but you know good will ultimately triumph over evil and remember "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God". Lean on your friends when it gets hard and let's try to be peacmakers and not let anyone "turn us around, 'cause we ain't going back there no more". You know who we are and we will always be there for you just as you have been for us. Cheeky


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A good 'secretary' should be able to handle him. I bet he knows little about what he's supposed to be doing.



Huckleberry said:


> Now here is a twist. Someone bought an old established Enterprise and found out that a Secretary (female) was being paid MUCH more than a number of Men in positions more valuable to the company than hers. In addition she had benefits the Men did not have like being off Saturdays and Mondays and on the other days never came in before 10 AM. Solution, pay was adjusted for the Men and her hours were changed. Now I call that equality and fairness. We all should have such bosses.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Was that before or after they abandoned their wives and stopped supporting their children when they did?



alcameron said:


> My first job after college. (Olden days) Men made $100 more per year than women. There was a "head of household" clause.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> He was being taped as he did the job. When he got off shift, some service people came and dumped a jar of pennies on him and said "here are your tips". It was on every local news channel that night. He couldn't spin it if he wanted to.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I LOVE IT!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They have beautiful birds and monkeys too. It's a fantasy that keeps me going.



BrattyPatty said:


> I love orchids! I hear Costa Rica has some beautiful beaches too! But no, I wouldn't want you to leave.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's on my list now too.



BrattyPatty said:


> It is a site where it shows 83 Senators and Reps who are trying to work together to really get things done. There are Dems, Repubs, and Independents. There are several blogs to read. I haven't gotten that far, but will.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> They have beautiful birds and monkeys too. It's a fantasy that keeps me going.


Monkeys! I love monkeys!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> My only answer is that it is time to let the 'buts' and the 'only reason' go. If it is too difficult then you have the right not to join us. We are trying - we are asking you to try too.


You never did apologize to me for telling everyone to ignore me as I'm just stupid & don't know what I'm talking about, but here you are acting as if you are the 'holy' one trying to make peace.

You have been very hateful to me in the past without reason except you side with the Lefties--you live in Canada & the business of the US is none of your business. You cannot even vote here, but think because you left the horrible winters for our state of Arizona, for several years, you think you are a scholar on out politics.

You should become just as vocal in Canada & leave the US alone as no matter what you say, you cannot make a difference.

You should return to whatever you do & stay away from this thread.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, why do I think she may have had a side job?



Huckleberry said:


> Now here is a twist. Someone bought an old established Enterprise and found out that a Secretary (female) was being paid MUCH more than a number of Men in positions more valuable to the company than hers. In addition she had benefits the Men did not have like being off Saturdays and Mondays and on the other days never came in before 10 AM. Solution, pay was adjusted for the Men and her hours were changed. Now I call that equality and fairness. We all should have such bosses.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sorry for jumping into the middle of the discussion I have been extraordinarily busy and can't catch up on all the reading. 
Not saying that you all are prolific or anything! LOL. 
I don't think that those in "leadership" will get it even after another infrastructure disaster. Didn't we think that they would after the last one? 
I always cringe when I see people use the household budget example relative to the federal budget as it isn't at all the same, but... 
maybe they need a few of us who know how to organize a household to show them how to attend to business and actually set priorities and get things done.



BrattyPatty said:


> As for getting anything accomplished as far as our infrastructure goes, we do need people in both Houses to recognize the problem. Unfortunately, it will take another bridge collapse and loss of lives to open their eyes to it again. It's not just 2 parties fighting, but it is 3 different groups fighting within one party. They can't agree on anything, so therefore nothing gets brought to the table for the other party to disagree on. It is such a mess and a shame for the American people.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have one of her covered in birthday cake. Would you like to see that one?


I would love to see it!


----------



## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

damemary said:


> In my opinion a bridge collapse won't help unless Congress is on it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, why do I think she may have had a side job?


Which may explain why she was too tired to come in before 10:00. :hunf:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Retiring to CR was one of my former supervisor's retirement dreams. 
I couldn't go that far away from family. 
Thanks for the reminder, though, I need to send cards to my NJ grands. They LOVE receiving mail.



damemary said:


> They have beautiful birds and monkeys too. It's a fantasy that keeps me going.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Good morning everyone! It is 7 am here in Alberta -- I have a big day ahead so doubt I will even be able to read until tonight. Have a great day everyone.

Patti -- It is hard to realize it is a year since you took some time off to go and see your new little one. they grow so quickly. Time flies by. 

Take care everyone.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Good morning everyone! It is 7 am here in Alberta -- I have a big day ahead so doubt I will even be able to read until tonight. Have a great day everyone.
> 
> Patti -- It is hard to realize it is a year since you took some time off to go and see your new little one. they grow so quickly. Time flies by.
> 
> Take care everyone.


You're about an hour ahead of us here in California--it's 6:15 and the sun has yet to rise *sigh*

Have a wonderful day--talk to you later!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're about an hour ahead of us here in California--it's 6:15 and the sun has yet to rise *sigh*
> 
> Have a wonderful day--talk to you later!


The sun will be here soon, Susan.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The sun will be here soon, Susan.


Yes, some things you can count on! ;-)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, some things you can count on! ;-)


Well, it's shining here in Minnesota! It's a beautiful morning. Just getting ready to take GD out for her morning stroll. She has to get 5 shots today  Be back later.Everyone enjoy your morning!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, it's shining here in Minnesota! It's a beautiful morning. Just getting ready to take GD out for her morning stroll. She has to get 5 shots today  Be back later.Everyone enjoy your morning!


Good luck, Patty. Keep _two_ boxes of tissues at the ready--one for you and one for her!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh no! 5 shots? Ouch! 
My little guy is out checking out a pre-school today. Here's hoping he and MumMum like it.



BrattyPatty said:


> Well, it's shining here in Minnesota! It's a beautiful morning. Just getting ready to take GD out for her morning stroll. She has to get 5 shots today  Be back later.Everyone enjoy your morning!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh no! 5 shots? Ouch!
> My little guy is out checking out a pre-school today. Here's hoping he and MumMum like it.


I won't be at the doctor's office, but I'll have lot'sof hugs and kisses for when she gets back. I'm hoping her mom was mistaken and that a couple will be oral meds.

I remember the preschool days, jelun. My son went at 3. When we got there he took off and played right away. I cried all the way home. It was a great experience for him, but then he was always a people person.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here you go al and Shirley!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Soooooo cute!



BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You never did apologize to me for telling everyone to ignore me as I'm just stupid & don't know what I'm talking about, but here you are acting as if you are the 'holy' one trying to make peace.
> 
> You have been very hateful to me in the past without reason except you side with the Lefties--you live in Canada & the business of the US is none of your business. You cannot even vote here, but think because you left the horrible winters for our state of Arizona, for several years, you think you are a scholar on out politics.
> 
> ...


Janeway
on your bad days, please, stay away.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Does not matter,just stop !! You are not accomplishing anything with this


Maybe not in your eyes, but Huck always does this as she is one hateful woman who only post bad things to anyone who is not a Democrat.

Hang around & the true Huck will emerge but watch your step or she will attack you too.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> LOL, why do I think she may have had a side job?


jelun2
perhaps "personal privileges".


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> on your very bad days, please, stay away.


Ok, I will stay away if you stay too, but I won't allow you to slam me & not respond. So you stay away as every day is your bad day.

Welcome back so do tell who you were in the past--maybe Freedom Fries as was kicked off & you emerged about the same time with a partner of Tom!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is my grandson's adventure. My own children always went to daycare, while I went to school and while I worked until I moved within a block of where their father lived. That was a great solution!

Here is the pre-school boy. 
I hope.



BrattyPatty said:


> I won't be at the doctor's office, but I'll have lot'sof hugs and kisses for when she gets back. I'm hoping her mom was mistaken and that a couple will be oral meds.
> 
> I remember the preschool days, jelun. My son went at 3. When we got there he took off and played right away. I cried all the way home. It was a great experience for him, but then he was always a people person.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


Can't the rest of us look at a sweet baby?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is my grandson's adventure. My own children always went to daycare, while I went to school and while I worked until I moved within a block of where their father lived. That was a great solution!
> 
> Here is the pre-school boy.
> I hope.


Cute child!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Some benefits package.



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> perhaps "personal privileges".


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun, he is adorable! Leave it to a boy to find a puddle!
They grow too fast don't they?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


BrattyPatty
Adorable. Thank you. Isn't that hair color to die for?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Two of the really great things about my extended vacation are that my mothers doctor told her she had to use a walker all the time, so I can now worry a little bit less about being away from home, and my mother needs a little less help, too. The other is that I get some alone time which I rarely get at home. So here I am enjoying coffee and keeping up with POV Liberal and a couple of other topics I watch. Also, Ive unwatched S&O and D&P and think I can manage to stay away from them. I recommend this as a way to lower ones blood pressure and increase ones overall health.

On to another subject. I come from a staunch Union background and deeply believe we must fight to keep unionism alive and well in this country. The whole concept of the right to work makes my blood boil. Its just a rotten euphemism for paying people a pittance, keeping money in the hands of the greedy bosses and damaging unionism as much as possible where that right to work BS is the order of the day.

Some say that unions are asking for too much, that union workers are lazy, that they dont deserve various items that are included in the contracts they negotiate with the businesses that include union workers or are entirely unionized. Some of this may be true, but mostly I believe its all part on the movement to get rid of unions in this country altogether.

Too many young people may have heard of the union movement of the 1920s and 30s but its ancient history to them. They know no other corporate environment than the one corporations were forced to create as a result of unionization. Times have changed, and maybe unions need to change their tactics to fit the times, but we absolutely cant afford to allow those who would destroy all unions in this country to succeed. Oh, rant, rave, gripe and groanLOL.

Heres another song about unionization:
UNION MAID
Words and Music by Woody Guthrie
(sung to the tune of Redwing

There once was a union maid, she never was afraid
Of goons and ginks and company finks and the deputy sheriffs who made the raid.
She went to the union hall when a meeting it was called,
And when the Legion boys come 'round
She always stood her ground. 

Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union.
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union 'til the day I die.

This union maid was wise to the tricks of company spies,
She couldn't be fooled by a company stool, she'd always organize the guys.
She always got her way when she struck for better pay.
She'd show her card to the National Guard
And this is what she'd say

Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union.
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union 'til the day I die.

You gals who want to be free, just take a tip from me;
Get you a man who's a union man and join the ladies' auxiliary.
Married life ain't hard when you got a union card,
A union man has a happy life when he's got a union wife.

Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union, I'm sticking to the union.
Oh, you can't scare me, I'm sticking to the union,
I'm sticking to the union 'til the day I die.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Ok, I will stay away if you stay too, but I won't allow you to slam me & not respond. So you stay away as every day is your bad day.
> 
> Welcome back so do tell who you were in the past--maybe Freedom Fries as was kicked off & you emerged about the same time with a partner of Tom!


Janeway
sometimes you are actually very funny.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> This is my grandson's adventure. My own children always went to daycare, while I went to school and while I worked until I moved within a block of where their father lived. That was a great solution!
> 
> Here is the pre-school boy.
> I hope.


jelun2
child after my Heart. "pooling" his energy. Handsome devil, isn't he!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, Shirley she just turned a year 2 weeks ago. She is taking a few steps now. Thanks for asking about her. You are correct. We can't let 3 or 4 ruin this great thread.
> Hugs!


Yes, as you are the one who used the F--- Bomb but deleted it but I have a copy & will send it to everyone when SIL has the time.

You are the one who ruins every thread you write on with all of your slurs. I will respond to your ugly words every time you quote them.

Your name & Cheeky's name are easy to get mixed up as even Designer got them mixed!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Janeway
> sometimes you are actually very funny.


Thank you as I do enjoy laughter.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Going to break for awhile. Pres Clinton is on CNN explaining the ACA.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I love you Patty and am your friend. They have been cruel to you for a long time now and I thank you for vowing to try. These people have even attacked your beautiful family but you know good will ultimately triumph over evil and remember "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called the children of God". Lean on your friends when it gets hard and let's try to be peacmakers and not let anyone "turn us around, 'cause we ain't going back there no more". You know who we are and we will always be there for you just as you have been for us. Cheeky


Yes, Cheeky remember sending the Raid can picture to me & telling Yarnie to put a pencil between her teeth so she could enjoy her seizure! You are one hateful person who is now trying to be nice but it won't work.

I will send Admin the quote Bratty made with the F--- Bomb then she will be gone!


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Hi Patty and Jelun,
What two adorable children -Thank you for posting these rays of sunshine!!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

medusa said:


> Hi Patty and Jelun,
> What two adorable children -Thank you for posting these rays of sunshine!!!


Yes they are, Medusa! GD keeps me smiling 24/7 lol


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


Adorable, Patty! Gosh, does that bring back memories!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

She is just precious, Patty. Looks like she got right into the spirit of her party and dove right into her cake. That will be a good photo to show her when she is a teenager.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

What memories you evoke! 
When I was union active there was a training group that was so wonderful in my area. It was called WILD...Women in Leadership Development. The goal was to prepare women to stop living in the shadows of those old white guys. (Don't yell at me, I just loved it, I didn't think it up!)
The motto was "From Union Maids to WILD Women". We learned so much and made some great connections.

http://www.wildlabor.org/index.html



MaidInBedlam said:


> Two of the really great things about my extended vacation are that my mothers doctor told her she had to use a walker all the time, so I can now worry a little bit less about being away from home, and my mother needs a little less help, too. The other is that I get some alone time which I rarely get at home. So here I am enjoying coffee and keeping up with POV Liberal and a couple of other topics I watch. Also, Ive unwatched S&O and D&P and think I can manage to stay away from them. I recommend this as a way to lower ones blood pressure and increase ones overall health.
> 
> On to another subject. I come from a staunch Union background and deeply believe we must fight to keep unionism alive and well in this country. The whole concept of the right to work makes my blood boil. Its just a rotten euphemism for paying people a pittance, keeping money in the hands of the greedy bosses and damaging unionism as much as possible where that right to work BS is the order of the day.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She is just precious, Patty. Looks like she got right into the spirit of her party and dove right into her cake. That will be a good photo to show her when she is a teenager.


Cheeky, she had cake up her nose! she has an appointment next week for her 1 year portrait.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun - What a handsome little boy and he looks as happy as a clam sitting in the puddle. That is a prize winning photo. :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for the compliments, he is the light of my life and keeps me from missing the two in NJ quite so much. 

My darling granddaughter...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry for jumping into the middle of the discussion I have been extraordinarily busy and can't catch up on all the reading.
> Not saying that you all are prolific or anything! LOL.
> I don't think that those in "leadership" will get it even after another infrastructure disaster. Didn't we think that they would after the last one?
> I always cringe when I see people use the household budget example relative to the federal budget as it isn't at all the same, but...
> maybe they need a few of us who know how to organize a household to show them how to attend to business and actually set priorities and get things done.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> Adorable. Thank you. Isn't that hair color to die for?


My mother's mother would have died for that hair. She had an obsession with auburn locks--too many Rita Hayworth movies, I suppose--and watched with baited breath when each of her grandchildren began to sprout hair. It's really unfortunate that she passed away before my oldest brother had kids--he hit the jackpot twice there.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm just dreaming. We're far from family due to relocation for jobs years ago & we've had to make it work.



jelun2 said:


> Retiring to CR was one of my former supervisor's retirement dreams.
> I couldn't go that far away from family.
> Thanks for the reminder, though, I need to send cards to my NJ grands. They LOVE receiving mail.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The West Coast seems to operate differently.



susanmos2000 said:


> You're about an hour ahead of us here in California--it's 6:15 and the sun has yet to rise *sigh*
> 
> Have a wonderful day--talk to you later!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for the compliments, he is the light of my life and keeps me from missing the two in NJ quite so much.
> 
> My darling granddaughter...


What a beautiful child! Love her cheeks!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Jane you are never supposed to put anything in someone's mouth when they are having a seizure. I know because many people in my family are predisposed to having them including me. When a person has a seizure all their muscles spasm and contract very tightly. What you should do if someone is having one is make sure they don't fall so ease them to the floor and put them on their side. Don't hold them down and make sure they don't hit their head on anything until the seizure ends. That way the tongue will hopefully roll to the side in the mouth and not be bitten down on when the jaw clenches shut. If they don't come out of the seizure within a couple of minutes then call 911 for help. Seizures can kill if not brought under control. I am under control with medication I will have to take the rest of my life but can sometimes have a "break through" seizure. I always bite down on my tongue and it hurts very badly for several days and swells up and turns black. It's not fun and all the muscles in your body ache and you feel very tired. My niece who is nearly 30 has several a day and my son had them for years but has been seizure free for the last several years so I am thankful for that. I would never tell anyone to put a pencil in the mouth or make fun of anyone who has seizures because there is nothing funny about them. I hope if you ever see someone having a seizure you can use this advice and help them. They will be very grateful to you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> The West Coast seems to operate differently.


I guess so--maybe it has something to do with being closer to the equator? I've noticed very suddenly that it now get darks by 8 PM and the sun isn't up until 6:30--and that's with daylight saving's time! Autumn is sure coming fast.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> My mother's mother would have died for that hair. She had an obsession with auburn locks--too many Rita Hayworth movies, I suppose--and watched with baited breath when each of her grandchildren began to sprout hair. It's really unfortunate that she passed away before my oldest brother had kids--he hit the jackpot twice there.


Susan,the red hair runs about every other generation on my side of the family. My daughter and Josh both have dark brunette hair. Kate has has always had red highlights. I was surprised when I saw this baby come into the world with red hair. I saw the look on Josh's mom's face when she saw the red hair. I wish I had a picture of it. I pulled out a pic I carry of myself when I was a child and it showed the same color hair. She was relieved to see that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane you are never supposed to put anything in someone's mouth when they are having a seizure. I know because many people in my family are predisposed to having them including me. When a person has a seizure all their muscles spasm and contract very tightly. What you should do if someone is having one is make sure they don't fall so ease them to the floor and put them on their side. Don't hold them down and make sure they don't hit their head on anything until the seizure ends. That way the tongue will hopefully roll to the side in the mouth and not be bitten down on when the jaw clenches shut. If they don't come out of the seizure within a couple of minutes then call 911 for help. Seizures can kill if not brought under control. I am under control with medication I will have to take the rest of my life but can sometimes have a "break through" seizure. I always bite down on my tongue and it hurts very badly for several days and swells up and turns black. It's not fun and all the muscles in your body ache and you feel very tired. My niece who is nearly 30 has several a day and my son had them for years but has been seizure free for the last several years so I am thankful for that. I would never tell anyone to put a pencil in the mouth or make fun of anyone who has seizures because there is nothing funny about them. I hope if you ever see someone having a seizure you can use this advice and help them. They will be very grateful to you.


Sorry, Cheeky--once more you've been wrongfully accused. I was the one who made that comment and, in light of what we now know about Yarnie's health issues, I regret it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I guess so--maybe it has something to do with being closer to the equator? I've noticed very suddenly that it now get darks by 8 PM and the sun isn't up until 6:30--and that's with daylight saving's time! Autumn is sure coming fast.


Yes it is. I am afraid that we won't have a very colorful fall this year. The leaves are already dropping from the trees.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky, she had cake up her nose! she has an appointment next week for her 1 year portrait.


Too funny! Maybe she was hiding a little for later. Be sure to post her new picture when you get it. Don't red heads run in your family? In the photo her's looks auburn. It's a beautiful color.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Wow, another little beauty! Thanks for sharing the photo jelun.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan,the red hair runs about every other generation on my side of the family. My daughter and Josh both have dark brunette hair. Kate has has always had red highlights. I was surprised when I saw this baby come into the world with red hair.


!!! I was stunned when my son was born--it was a pretty sure bet that he'd have his father's brown hair, but I expected him to have blue eyes, like me--in fact, I thought ALL babies started with blue eyes. You can imagine my surprise when I gave birth to a child with black hair and dark brown eyes. The eyes of course never changed, but the black stuff fell out after a few months and was replaced by a blonde mop. It's gotten darker over the years, and now F. has brown hair just a shade lighter than his dad's.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> In my opinion a bridge collapse won't help unless Congress is on it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


what a cutie!! is that hair a beautiful red??? I want a hug!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> !!! I was stunned when my son was born--it was a pretty sure bet that he'd have his father's brown hair, but I expected him to have blue eyes, like me--in fact, I thought ALL babies started with blue eyes. You can imagine my surprise when I gave birth to a child with black hair and dark brown eyes. The eyes of course never changed, but the black stuff fell out after a few months and was replaced by a blonde mop. It's gotten darker over the years, and now F. has brown hair just a shade lighter than his dad's.


Both my boys were born with dark brown eyes from the first second. Never any blue or grey. I am very dark brown eyed and Pat (dh) is medium brown. I thought they all started out blue grey, but not mine.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for the compliments, he is the light of my life and keeps me from missing the two in NJ quite so much.
> 
> My darling granddaughter...


She is beautiful!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for the compliments, he is the light of my life and keeps me from missing the two in NJ quite so much.
> 
> My darling granddaughter...


jelun2
darling she sure is. What a pretty Girl.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Both my boys were born with dark brown eyes from the first second. Never any blue or grey. I am very dark brown eyed and Pat (dh) is medium brown. I thought they all started out blue grey, but not mine.


Human genes definitely have minds of their own. My sister also married of man of Eastern European descent, who has dark eyes and hair like my husband--but her kids have blond hair and blue/grey eyes.

The situation with her first husband was even harder to figure out. "Richard" and all his family members had a certain look about them--not just hair and eye color, but body type, facial features, and pretty much everything else. Those genes were so powerful that Richard's older brothers looked like older versions of him--his niece looked like Richard in drag. We used to laugh about it and tease him about those "super genes" that could overwhelm any others in their path.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh, yes, it has everything to do with location. Seattle is about 1,000 miles north of San Francisco, and on the shortest fay of the year gets 8 1/3 hour of daylight, and on the longest day, 15 2/3. makes it a little weird as the days get shorter, but the Pacific Northwest Native Americans knew what to do. They had unususally complex social structures no matter what other civilizations you compare them to, used the darker parts of the days to make and mend and to play games. They also fashioned very useful rain gear from cedar bark, and their artwork is absolutely amazing and wonderful. When I lived there it seemed pretty clear that the non-Native population imitated the example of making and mending and making indoor time interesting, though they were woefully lacking in other skills and attitudes they might have benefited from if they'd paid more attention to the aboriginal population.


susanmos2000 said:


> I guess so--maybe it has something to do with being closer to the equator? I've noticed very suddenly that it now get darks by 8 PM and the sun isn't up until 6:30--and that's with daylight saving's time! Autumn is sure coming fast.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


Thank you, Patty! She's very cute and looks like a little imp? Does she take after Grandma??
I know the red hair is from you, but the imp trait?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, yes, it has everything to do with location. Seattle is about 1,000 miles north of San Francisco, and on the shortest fay of the year gets 8 1/3 hour of daylight, and on the longest day, 15 2/3. makes it a little weird as the days get shorter, but the Pacific Northwest Native Americans knew what to do. They had unususally complex social structures no matter what other civilizations you compare them to, used the darker parts of the days to make and mend and to play games. They also fashioned very useful rain gear from cedar bark, and their artwork is absolutely amazing and wonderful. When I lived there it seemed pretty clear that the non-Native population imitated the example of making and mending and making indoor time interesting, though they were woefully lacking in other skills and attitudes they might have benefited from if they'd paid more attention to the aboriginal population.


Of course, Maid--I should have thought of that. We all know the sun plays funny tricks as you move north of the equator--never rising in the dead of winter, summer "nights" with the sun blazing high in the sky etc etc. Native American tribes in the further reaches of North American _would_ have had to be pretty resourceful to get through all that. There's certainly been enough written about the devastating effects of SAD (seasonal affective disorder)--how much worse it would be without artificial lights.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you, Patty! She's very cute and looks like a little imp? Does she take after Grandma??
> I know the red hair is from you, but the imp trait?


She is an imp and a people person. Yes, I'll claim that she gets the imp from me and her mother.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Food for thought: all of us delight in looking at our children and grandchildren and recognizing in them "Grammy's spunk" "Sister's eyes", and so on. I actually feel some pity for the bigot who looks into an interracial grandchild's face and can't or won't see beyond the skin color. They're really cutting themselves off from something that makes having children so satisfying--must seem to them like someone has cut down the family tree with an ax and left them completely alone.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hello all you lovely Liberal Ladies. In continuing our conversation on Unions I have attached two links for you to read to help us understand how unions not only brought improvements to their own worker's lives but to non Union workers as well. I hope you will read them and share your own experience with Unions or ask questions you may have about present day Unions and why they are even more important for us today.

Here are just two of the many links you can find on the internet but many more are out there to look at from a variety of perspectives.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/05/15/1092027/-Thanks-a-Union-36-Ways-Unions-Have-Improved-Your-Life - 96k

http://www.seiu1021.org/2013/09/02/unions-efforts-benefit-all-workers-by-president-roxanne-sanchez-for-the-sf-chronicle/ - 30k


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all you lovely Liberal Ladies. In continuing our conversation on Unions I have attached two links for you to read to help us understand how unions not only brought improvements to their own worker's lives but to non Union workers as well. I hope you will read them and share your own experience with Unions or ask questions you may have about present day Unions and why they are even more important for us today.
> 
> Here are just two of the many links you can find on the internet but many more are out there to look at from a variety of perspectives.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Cheeky. I'm posting these 36 reasons from the article just in case some people gloss over the link. I hope you don't mind.
36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union
Weekends
All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
Paid Vacation
FMLA
Sick Leave
Social Security
Minimum Wage
Civil Rights Act/Title VII (Prohibits Employer Discrimination)
8-Hour Work Day
Overtime Pay
Child Labor Laws
Occupational Safety & Health Act (OSHA)
40 Hour Work Week
Worker's Compensation (Worker's Comp)
Unemployment Insurance
Pensions
Workplace Safety Standards and Regulations
Employer Health Care Insurance
Collective Bargaining Rights for Employees
Wrongful Termination Laws
Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967
Whistleblower Protection Laws
Employee Polygraph Protect Act (Prohibits Employer from using a lie detector test on an employee)
Veteran's Employment and Training Services (VETS)
Compensation increases and Evaluations (Raises)
Sexual Harassment Laws
Americans With Disabilities Act (ADA)
Holiday Pay
Employer Dental, Life, and Vision Insurance
Privacy Rights
Pregnancy and Parental Leave
Military Leave
The Right to Strike
Public Education for Children
Equal Pay Acts of 1963 & 2011 (Requires employers pay men and women equally for the same amount of work)
Laws Ending Sweatshops in the United States


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Food for thought: all of us delight in looking at our children and grandchildren and recognizing in them "Grammy's spunk" "Sister's eyes", and so on. I actually feel some pity for the bigot who looks into an interracial grandchild's face and can't or won't see beyond the skin color. They're really cutting themselves off from something that makes having children so satisfying--must seem to them like someone has cut down the family tree with an ax and left them completely alone.


susanmos2000
it is that very loneliness that makes them so bitter.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Thank you, Cheeky. I'm posting these 36 reasons from the article just in case some people gloss over the link. I hope you don't mind.
> 36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union
> Weekends
> All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
> ...


Cheeky and alcameron
thank you for the valuable postings.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter
I see that our Tea Party if flowering. Beautiful arrangement.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all you lovely Liberal Ladies. In continuing our conversation on Unions I have attached two links for you to read to help us understand how unions not only brought improvements to their own worker's lives but to non Union workers as well. I hope you will read them and share your own experience with Unions or ask questions you may have about present day Unions and why they are even more important for us today.


Thanks, Cheeky, for getting the ball rolling on something that adds another interesting dimension to our subject.
Here's a shocker: rest and meal breaks are NOT mandated by federal law, and only 19 states require employers to provide them. Doesn't matter in the majority of states that you might be chopping trees or loading freight cars--the boss has every right to tell you work straight through.
Really shocking, and makes it so very obvious that union pressure might be the only way to bring these modern-day Simon Legrees to the bargaining table.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> What a beautiful child! Love her cheeks!


TY TY. It's those good genes, haha.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Multiracial grandchildren have done a whole lot to bring, what do we call them?, "accidental bigots" out of the dark, I think. 
You know those folks I mean, they don't think they are bigots, don't mean any harm, they just believe every negative thing they hear and internalize it. 
Well, when faced with a baby who is darker than they might be used to who can resist? Then they see with a different set of eyes.



susanmos2000 said:


> Food for thought: all of us delight in looking at our children and grandchildren and recognizing in them "Grammy's spunk" "Sister's eyes", and so on. I actually feel some pity for the bigot who looks into an interracial grandchild's face and can't or won't see beyond the skin color. They're really cutting themselves off from something that makes having children so satisfying--must seem to them like someone has cut down the family tree with an ax and left them completely alone.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You folks have such great avatars, I need to get going and find a goody.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

TY, melts my heart at least once a day. 


Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> child after my Heart. "pooling" his energy. Handsome devil, isn't he!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been a red head....from time to time....out of the bottle. I love natural auburn hair most of all. And a baby with curls.....I'm head over heels.



susanmos2000 said:


> My mother's mother would have died for that hair. She had an obsession with auburn locks--too many Rita Hayworth movies, I suppose--and watched with baited breath when each of her grandchildren began to sprout hair. It's really unfortunate that she passed away before my oldest brother had kids--he hit the jackpot twice there.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, Cheeky, for the information.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane you are never supposed to put anything in someone's mouth when they are having a seizure. I know because many people in my family are predisposed to having them including me. When a person has a seizure all their muscles spasm and contract very tightly. What you should do if someone is having one is make sure they don't fall so ease them to the floor and put them on their side. Don't hold them down and make sure they don't hit their head on anything until the seizure ends. That way the tongue will hopefully roll to the side in the mouth and not be bitten down on when the jaw clenches shut. If they don't come out of the seizure within a couple of minutes then call 911 for help. Seizures can kill if not brought under control. I am under control with medication I will have to take the rest of my life but can sometimes have a "break through" seizure. I always bite down on my tongue and it hurts very badly for several days and swells up and turns black. It's not fun and all the muscles in your body ache and you feel very tired. My niece who is nearly 30 has several a day and my son had them for years but has been seizure free for the last several years so I am thankful for that. I would never tell anyone to put a pencil in the mouth or make fun of anyone who has seizures because there is nothing funny about them. I hope if you ever see someone having a seizure you can use this advice and help them. They will be very grateful to you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> TY TY. It's those good genes, haha.


And a cute pose with her dress!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In AZ we don't use daylight savings time at all. Right now we are three hours behind East Coast time. When everyone goes off DST, we're two hours behind East Coast, and one hour ahead of CA. More confusing for everyone else.

Many businesses do business with East Coast, so it's not unusual for our business to start shifts at 5:30 AM. It's also an advantage that we can easily offer contact in the evening for East Coast. Our rush hour starts around 4:00 AM.



susanmos2000 said:


> I guess so--maybe it has something to do with being closer to the equator? I've noticed very suddenly that it now get darks by 8 PM and the sun isn't up until 6:30--and that's with daylight saving's time! Autumn is sure coming fast.


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm not familiar with it. Enlighten me, please.


NoLabels is an organization which is trying to encourage legislators to work across the aisle in a constructive manner. So far, it's only at the national level. This is not a Grover Norquist style 'pledge' but an forum for better governing habits...

From Wikipedia:
"No Labels describes itself as an alliance of Republicans, Democrats, and independents. It started as a grassroots movement made up of citizens from across the political spectrum.[4] Its mission is "to help move America from the old politics of point scoring toward a new politics of problem solving." [1] No Labels says it does this in three ways: organizing citizens across America, providing a space for leaders who want to solve problems to convene and pushing for common sense reforms to make government work.[5] It focuses on getting liberals, conservatives and all lawmakers in between to work across the aisle to solve problems.[6] It focuses in particular on the "incentive structure" in government, which it says rewards hyperpartisanship over problem solving.[7] No Labels maintains that it is not an attempt to start a third party.[8][9] It also asserts that it is not a centrist movement. Jon Huntsman has said, "Its not about centrism, its about a new attitude toward the realities we face. Its about finding Democrats and Republicans who will check their egos at the door.
My own interest is in the impact such will have on corporate lobbying!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My Dad was an early union organizer for the AFL-CIO. He was fighting for vacation, medical benefits, and more. It was not a popular stance to take, but he believed in it. All the children were whisked away due to threats. I even attended school for a year during a strike at my grandmother's.

My Dad also eventually abandoned Union management. He felt they were as bad as what we were fighting. But he was always active and helpful to the common worker.

Besides the obvious benefits Unions brought, they also provided negotiation between workers and management. Without it, it's 'my way or the highway' from business.

I guess your outlook depends on whether you are a worker or a business owner. Perspective is everything, but it would be nice if we all understood each other. We're not so different. We all want the best for our families. We want respect and security. We want opportunity. Comments?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all you lovely Liberal Ladies. In continuing our conversation on Unions I have attached two links for you to read to help us understand how unions not only brought improvements to their own worker's lives but to non Union workers as well. I hope you will read them and share your own experience with Unions or ask questions you may have about present day Unions and why they are even more important for us today.
> 
> Here are just two of the many links you can find on the internet but many more are out there to look at from a variety of perspectives.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Much to give thanks for.



alcameron said:


> Thank you, Cheeky. I'm posting these 36 reasons from the article just in case some people gloss over the link. I hope you don't mind.
> 36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union
> Weekends
> All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
> ...


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

I'd like to share a quick union story...During WWII, my aunt Katie was named union steward for the Ship Builders union in Louisville, KY. Her husband was in the Pacific and she and her infant daughter lived right near the docks and Katy worked in the ship yard. The mob (mafia?) was very busy infiltrating unions during the war, and they began to lean on Katie to pay the union 'vig'. She refused. She came to the union office one morning, and was jumped by some tough guys who told her they had her baby and if she didn't pay up, they'd hurt the baby. She said that she knew they were lying (she'd sent the baby to her family when this business started) and continued to refuse. They then hung her out of the window by her ankles and threatened to drop her if she didn't pay. Katie was pretty riled by now and told them to go ahead and began screaming at the top of her voice, drawing all kinds of attention on the street. They pulled her in and then left the scene in a tearing hurry. Katie went back to work.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you, Cheeky. I'm posting these 36 reasons from the article just in case some people gloss over the link. I hope you don't mind.
> 36 Reasons Why You Should Thank a Union
> Weekends
> All Breaks at Work, including your Lunch Breaks
> ...


How true-- same up here - we have much to thank unions for.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now, my dears, THAT is negotiation.

Katie for President.



midwegian said:


> I'd like to share a quick union story...During WWII, my aunt Katie was named union steward for the Ship Builders union in Louisville, KY. Her husband was in the Pacific and she and her infant daughter lived right near the docks and Katy worked in the ship yard. The mob (mafia?) was very busy infiltrating unions during the war, and they began to lean on Katie to pay the union 'vig'. She refused. She came to the union office one morning, and was jumped by some tough guys who told her they had her baby and if she didn't pay up, they'd hurt the baby. She said that she knew they were lying (she'd sent the baby to her family when this business started) and continued to refuse. They then hung her out of the window by her ankles and threatened to drop her if she didn't pay. Katie was pretty riled by now and told them to go ahead and began screaming at the top of her voice, drawing all kinds of attention on the street. They pulled her in and then left the scene in a tearing hurry. Katie went back to work.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> Now, my dears, THAT is negotiation.
> 
> Katie for President.


And she would have done a fine job of it, I promise you! She was something else. She died about 6 years ago at the age of 94, and was sharp and lively till the end.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My kind of woman. Rest in Peace, Katie.



midwegian said:


> And she would have done a fine job of it, I promise you! She was something else. She died about 6 years ago at the age of 94, and was sharp and lively till the end.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She is just precious, Patty. Looks like she got right into the spirit of her party and dove right into her cake. That will be a good photo to show her when she is a teenager.


And all of her boyfriends!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> And all of her boyfriends!


If she doesn't hide it before hand!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have to find a good pic of her brother now. Have to show off the whole generation. 
I miss them so much.


alcameron said:


> And a cute pose with her dress!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It always amazes me when some people claim that unions own Democrats, as if there wouldn't be a whole lot more worker friendly legislation if that were true.



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Cheeky, for getting the ball rolling on something that adds another interesting dimension to our subject.
> Here's a shocker: rest and meal breaks are NOT mandated by federal law, and only 19 states require employers to provide them. Doesn't matter in the majority of states that you might be chopping trees or loading freight cars--the boss has every right to tell you work straight through.
> Really shocking, and makes it so very obvious that union pressure might be the only way to bring these modern-day Simon Legrees to the bargaining table.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

midwegian said:


> I'd like to share a quick union story...During WWII, my aunt Katie was named union steward for the Ship Builders union in Louisville, KY. Her husband was in the Pacific and she and her infant daughter lived right near the docks and Katy worked in the ship yard. The mob (mafia?) was very busy infiltrating unions during the war, and they began to lean on Katie to pay the union 'vig'. She refused. She came to the union office one morning, and was jumped by some tough guys who told her they had her baby and if she didn't pay up, they'd hurt the baby. She said that she knew they were lying (she'd sent the baby to her family when this business started) and continued to refuse. They then hung her out of the window by her ankles and threatened to drop her if she didn't pay. Katie was pretty riled by now and told them to go ahead and began screaming at the top of her voice, drawing all kinds of attention on the street. They pulled her in and then left the scene in a tearing hurry. Katie went back to work.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My father came to this country at the age of 17 with very little money and education. He settled in Northern Minnesota where he got a job working in the iron ore mines. For many years he belonged a union until he became a supervisor and was no longer allowed to be a union member. He heart was always with the workers and he risked his job many times by being on their side. The labor movement was very important in this area of the country and grew into the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party with it's roots in left-wing philosophy. 
Below is a short history of the development of the labor movement in that part of the country.

The history of the American labor movement is peopled by immigrants to this country. Finnish, South Slav, and Italian immigrant laborers were prominent in labor movements in the logging and mining industries of Minnesota and its neighboring northern states of Michigan and Wisconsin. The Minnesota Iron Range, stretching across northeastern Minnesota, was made up of the Mesabi, the Cuyuna, and the Vermilion Ranges of iron-rich ore and the mines where it was extracted. The Range, as the three ranges were jointly nicknamed, was a major site of strife between owners and laborers, and a fertile field for labor organizing. Most famous, perhaps, was the Mesabi Range, considered the "mightiest," where much of the strife occurred, and where historic battles between labor and management were fought. Two strikes on the Mesabione in 1907, and another in 1916are legendary in the struggle for workers' rights and fair wages.

Forty miners walked off the job on June 3, beginning the 1916 strike. The unorganized miners soon realized they needed help. Unlike the 1907 strike, this time the Western Federation of Miners was not interested in organizing the miners. Instead, the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW or Wobblies) responded, sending in some of their top organizers. Many of the strikebreakers from 1907, ironically, became instrumental in the 1916 strike.

The 1916 strike was marked by violence and repression. Unlike 1907, strikebreakers were not as readily available and other tactics were employed to end the strike. The civil liberties of strikers were violated, mine guards and police used force to intimidate strikers, union leaders were jailed, economic pressure was exerted on merchants who extended credit to strikers, and finally, the Oliver Iron Mining Company refused to negotiate with the strikers.

The strike was called off on September 17. The miners did win some important short-range reforms from the mining company, but the company's anti-union attitude persisted for another quarter century.

Yay Mesabi Iron Range!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Great list al! at least in the union a woman could earn the same wage as a man for the same work?
Katie was a heroine! She could have given Jimmy Hoffa some tips!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I cannot claim any personal connection. This was an activity that gives many of us lots of pride in the workers of this region. The Wobblies were active in the strike and resolution as well.

http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=16


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Stupid is as stupid posts.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Great list al! at least in the union a woman could earn the same wage as a moan for the same work?
> Katie was a heroine! She could have given Jimmy Hoffa some tips!


So true, Patty. Through my son I've had experiences with both union and non-union schools--my son now attends a charter school run by a corporation. We like the flexible curriculum and the emphasis on Spanish as a second language, but none of the teacher belong to union and the school suffers for it. It's a revolving door--the staff turnover rate is approximately 25% annually. Out of the four teachers my son has had in grades 2 through 5 only one remains. Last year's teacher was sacked when her new baby developed health problems and she needed to take a leave of absence--the other fifth grade teacher lost her job when she needed emergency surgery on her back.

As grim as the situation is in public schools these days, it would be much worse with the presence of a strong teacher's union. Teaching is in many cases a thankless and difficult career choice, but fortunately the benefits fought for by unions--pensions, job security, and fairly reasonable salaries--are still enough to attract good and qualified people who might otherwise choose a different career path.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think this is exactly what they mean when they talk about unions creating the middle class. Work hard and get ahead.



alcameron said:


> My father came to this country at the age of 17 with very little money and education. He settled in Northern Minnesota where he got a job working in the iron ore mines. For many years he belonged a union until he became a supervisor and was no longer allowed to be a union member. He heart was always with the workers and he risked his job many times by being on their side. The labor movement was very important in this area of the country and grew into the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party with it's roots in left-wing philosophy.
> Below is a short history of the development of the labor movement in that part of the country.
> 
> The history of the American labor movement is peopled by immigrants to this country. Finnish, South Slav, and Italian immigrant laborers were prominent in labor movements in the logging and mining industries of Minnesota and its neighboring northern states of Michigan and Wisconsin. The Minnesota Iron Range, stretching across northeastern Minnesota, was made up of the Mesabi, the Cuyuna, and the Vermilion Ranges of iron-rich ore and the mines where it was extracted. The Range, as the three ranges were jointly nicknamed, was a major site of strife between owners and laborers, and a fertile field for labor organizing. Most famous, perhaps, was the Mesabi Range, considered the "mightiest," where much of the strife occurred, and where historic battles between labor and management were fought. Two strikes on the Mesabione in 1907, and another in 1916are legendary in the struggle for workers' rights and fair wages.
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I cannot claim any personal connection. This was an activity that gives many of us lots of pride in the workers of this region. The Wobblies were active in the strike and resolution as well.
> 
> http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=16


What a great story that was. I can't even begin to imagine how hard it was for women and kids back then. It makes my heart ache to think that kids gave up their childhood for food.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here you go al and Shirley!


AW!!!!
I love redheads, Adorable


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

http://www.servintfree.net/aidmn-ejournal/publications/2001-11/PublicEducationInTheUnitedStates.html

http://www.continuetolearn.uiowa.edu/laborctr/child_labor/about/us_history.html


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Working in the mines in Northern Minnesota eventually became jobs with decent pay. The jobs required hard physical work and were traditionally held by men. As times changed on the Iron Range the economy stagnated from time to time, and many people became unemployed and/or looked for jobs that paid more money. In 1975 women began to challenge men for these jobs. The info below is the story of a lawsuit against the mining companies and their treatment of women in the workplace. The book is very interesting reading and some of you may have seen the movie based on the story of Lois Jensen and others.

In the tradition of A Civil Action and Erin Brockovitch, Class Action is a story of intrigue and injustice as dramatic as fiction but all the more poignant because it is true. 

In the coldest reaches of northern Minnesota, a group of women endured a shocking degree of sexual harassmentuntil one of them stepped forward and sued the company that had turned a blind eye to their pleas for help. Jenson vs. Eveleth Mines, the first sexual harassment class action in America, permanently changed the legal landscape as well as the lives of the women who fought the battle.

In 1975, Lois Jenson, a single mother on welfare, heard that the local iron mine was now hiring women. The hours were grueling, but the pay was astonishing, and Jenson didn't think twice before accepting a job cleaning viscous soot from enormous grinding machines. What she hadn't considered was that she was now entering a male-dominated, hard-drinking society that firmly believed that women belonged at homea sentiment quickly born out in the relentless, brutal harassment of every woman who worked at the mine. When a group of men whistled at her walking into the plant, she didn't think much of it; when they began yelling obscenities at her, she was resilient; when one of them began stalking her, she got mad; when the mining company was unwilling to come to her defense, she got even. 

From Jensons first day on the job, through three intensely humiliating trials, to the emotional day of the settlement, it would take Jenson twenty-five years and most of her physical and mental health to fight the battle with the mining company. But with the support of other women miners like union official Patricia Kosmach and her luck at finding perhaps the finest legal team for class action law, Jenson would eventually prevail. 

Clara Bingham and Laura Leedy Gansler take readers on a fascinating, page-turning journey, the roller-coaster ride that became Jenson vs. Eveleth and show us that Class Action is not just one woman's story, it's every woman's legacy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> AW!!!!
> I love redheads, Adorable


Thank you, Miata! She is a little sweetheart.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Just found this....Here is a lengthy article by Naomi Klein on the importance of union action and the environment. She's addressing a Canadian audience in this link, but it applies widely.

http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2013/09/why-unions-need-join-climate-fight


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

midwegian said:


> NoLabels is an organization which is trying to encourage legislators to work across the aisle in a constructive manner. So far, it's only at the national level. This is not a Grover Norquist style 'pledge' but an forum for better governing habits...
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> "No Labels describes itself as an alliance of Republicans, Democrats, and independents. It started as a grassroots movement made up of citizens from across the political spectrum.[4] Its mission is "to help move America from the old politics of point scoring toward a new politics of problem solving." [1] No Labels says it does this in three ways: organizing citizens across America, providing a space for leaders who want to solve problems to convene and pushing for common sense reforms to make government work.[5] It focuses on getting liberals, conservatives and all lawmakers in between to work across the aisle to solve problems.[6] It focuses in particular on the "incentive structure" in government, which it says rewards hyperpartisanship over problem solving.[7] No Labels maintains that it is not an attempt to start a third party.[8][9] It also asserts that it is not a centrist movement. Jon Huntsman has said, "Its not about centrism, its about a new attitude toward the realities we face. Its about finding Democrats and Republicans who will check their egos at the door.
> My own interest is in the impact such will have on corporate lobbying!


Midwegian thanks for your post. I remember hearing about No Labels and I remember hearing Huntsman speaking about it on a couple different occasions. He seems to be a very down to earth common sense guy and I like him. I hope more people will get involved with no labels. Seems like what they really want what most everybody wants and that is for everyone to start working together again for what is good for the country and not what furthers the agenda of a party. The GOP drew the first red line in the sand when this new Tea Party bunch came in and came right and said they were going to do their best to do everything to stop Obama at every turn and make him a one term president. All they have succeeded in doing is causing misery for the American people and let the country fall apart. They seem to forget they work for us and are our employees. If any of us went to work and did nothing we would be shown the door. They have no business collecting their pay and per diems from the tax payers. Maybe they should be paid by piece work based on what they accomplish for us. They also should have term limits so they don't see these positions as a lifetime assignment. I also think they should all have insurance through ACA or have to purchase it else where just like anyone else. If it's good enough for us than it's good enough for them. Years ago I frequently didn't even know what party someone belonged to I just knew if I liked the job they were doing or not and that was how I voted. We have to start all playing on one team and that is the People's team. What ever No Labels can do to accomplish that end I am all for.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter says... Seems like what they really want what most everybody wants and that is for everyone to start working together again for what is good for the country and not what furthers the agenda of a party.

Dear Cheeky.... did we ever think something so "common sensical" and straightforward would become so problematic? And the grand author of "SAY NO!" and the one-term presidency is my own KY senator, Mitch McConnell. What an embarrassment. McConnell has fattened off his terms in Washington, and now considers himself a senate potentate. He is cheek by jowl with all the corporate lobbyists and takes an obscene amount of money from them. There is a strong DITCH MITCH movement in the state, but unfortunately, we have a strong GOP presence in KY, especially in areas where there is strong support for coal and it's hard to fight. When you add Rand Paul to the equation, it becomes downright frightening. The latest of McConnell's inappropriate jibes is to refer to his Democratic opponent, Alison Lundergran Grimes as an "empty dress'. The nation is watching the KY senate race.... it's a biggie.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It certainly does fit, and what a few of us were saying the other day works right in with this. 
I hate to sound cynical, unions need a new hook. 
The claims and lure of individuality make it difficult for that brotherhood and club aspect of unions, even the most progressive, to be a fit for this new generation. 
I would have enjoyed watching the interactions of the union folks and the Occupy crew when they got together. 
How to make a majority see that the goals are the same and to help the busy see this is a battle worth fighting, that is the dilemma, isn't it?



midwegian said:


> Just found this....Here is a lengthy article by Naomi Klein on the importance of union action and the environment. She's addressing a Canadian audience in this link, but it applies widely.
> 
> http://www.naomiklein.org/articles/2013/09/why-unions-need-join-climate-fight


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks to jelun, andrea and midwegian for your very interesting links and posts regarding public education, women breaking the sex barrier in Unions and child labor. If I have missed anyone I apologize. I am gradually reading through all this wealth of information. Remember, I am just throwing topics out here and if you have a special interest please bring it out here for discussion. I am learning so much from all of you so keep the ideas coming. If we need to slow down the pace on something or you want to speed things up speak up. It's your thread to learn, share and have fun on so please Liberal Ladies make it your own. If you are still holding back send me or someone else out here a PM and I'm sure you can get any help or advice that you need. Don't be shy you are among friends.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> It certainly does fit, and what a few of us were saying the other day works right in with this.
> I hate to sound cynical, unions need a new hook.
> The claims and lure of individuality make it difficult for that brotherhood and club aspect of unions, even the most progressive, to be a fit for this new generation.
> I would have enjoyed watching the interactions of the union folks and the Occupy crew when they got together.
> How to make a majority see that the goals are the same and to help the busy see this is a battle worth fighting, that is the dilemma, isn't it?


I think the web has changed up the interest in the problem. We have a much better informed individual tapping into threads such as these, which will create a new perspective throughout. Are you familiar with ReaderSupportedNews? It's a news feed that gleans pertinent articles from all over the world. You can search for topics, but the daily assortment is a brilliant way see the bigger picture. When Occupy started, they were the onlynews service that carried daily updates...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We should never underestimate the risks these people faced in order to win that list of 36 benefits. Many, many children were sent away to stay with family to ease the threat of kidnapping. Believe me, I always felt safe around my DGF and uncles....but my tiny DGM was a dynamo.



alcameron said:


> My father came to this country at the age of 17 with very little money and education. He settled in Northern Minnesota where he got a job working in the iron ore mines. For many years he belonged a union until he became a supervisor and was no longer allowed to be a union member. He heart was always with the workers and he risked his job many times by being on their side. The labor movement was very important in this area of the country and grew into the Democratic Farmer-Labor Party with it's roots in left-wing philosophy.
> Below is a short history of the development of the labor movement in that part of the country.
> 
> The history of the American labor movement is peopled by immigrants to this country. Finnish, South Slav, and Italian immigrant laborers were prominent in labor movements in the logging and mining industries of Minnesota and its neighboring northern states of Michigan and Wisconsin. The Minnesota Iron Range, stretching across northeastern Minnesota, was made up of the Mesabi, the Cuyuna, and the Vermilion Ranges of iron-rich ore and the mines where it was extracted. The Range, as the three ranges were jointly nicknamed, was a major site of strife between owners and laborers, and a fertile field for labor organizing. Most famous, perhaps, was the Mesabi Range, considered the "mightiest," where much of the strife occurred, and where historic battles between labor and management were fought. Two strikes on the Mesabione in 1907, and another in 1916are legendary in the struggle for workers' rights and fair wages.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks jelun2 for the link. There's always more to learn.



jelun2 said:


> I cannot claim any personal connection. This was an activity that gives many of us lots of pride in the workers of this region. The Wobblies were active in the strike and resolution as well.
> 
> http://www.massmoments.org/moment.cfm?mid=16


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're foolish to believe difficulty will always pass us by. A sick child...a sick parent....disability. We need help especially at times like this. A union can help greatly.

Some corporations needing highly skilled workers do offer benefits to help, but not all.



susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Patty. Through my son I've had experiences with both union and non-union schools--my son now attends a charter school run by a corporation. We like the flexible curriculum and the emphasis on Spanish as a second language, but none of the teacher belong to union and the school suffers for it. It's a revolving door--the staff turnover rate is approximately 25% annually. Out of the four teachers my son has had in grades 2 through 5 only one remains. Last year's teacher was sacked when her new baby developed health problems and she needed to take a leave of absence--the other fifth grade teacher lost her job when she needed emergency surgery on her back.
> 
> As grim as the situation is in public schools these days, it would be much worse with the presence of a strong teacher's union. Teaching is in many cases a thankless and difficult career choice, but fortunately the benefits fought for by unions--pensions, job security, and fairly reasonable salaries--are still enough to attract good and qualified people who might otherwise choose a different career path.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so proud to read this. Thanks Al.



alcameron said:


> Working in the mines in Northern Minnesota eventually became jobs with decent pay. The jobs required hard physical work and were traditionally held by men. As times changed on the Iron Range the economy stagnated from time to time, and many people became unemployed and/or looked for jobs that paid more money. In 1975 women began to challenge men for these jobs. The info below is the story of a lawsuit against the mining companies and their treatment of women in the workplace. The book is very interesting reading and some of you may have seen the movie based on the story of Lois Jensen and others.
> 
> In the tradition of A Civil Action and Erin Brockovitch, Class Action is a story of intrigue and injustice as dramatic as fiction but all the more poignant because it is true.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We'll huff and we'll puff and send good fortune to KY. Go Sisters and Brothers.



midwegian said:


> Cheeky Blighter says... Seems like what they really want what most everybody wants and that is for everyone to start working together again for what is good for the country and not what furthers the agenda of a party.
> 
> Dear Cheeky.... did we ever think something so "common sensical" and straightforward would become so problematic? And the grand author of "SAY NO!" and the one-term presidency is my own KY senator, Mitch McConnell. What an embarrassment. McConnell has fattened off his terms in Washington, and now considers himself a senate potentate. He is cheek by jowl with all the corporate lobbyists and takes an obscene amount of money from them. There is a strong DITCH MITCH movement in the state, but unfortunately, we have a strong GOP presence in KY, especially in areas where there is strong support for coal and it's hard to fight. When you add Rand Paul to the equation, it becomes downright frightening. The latest of McConnell's inappropriate jibes is to refer to his Democratic opponent, Alison Lundergran Grimes as an "empty dress'. The nation is watching the KY senate race.... it's a biggie.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks to jelun, andrea and midwegian for your very interesting links and posts regarding public education, women breaking the sex barrier in Unions and child labor. If I have missed anyone I apologize. I am gradually reading through all this wealth of information. Remember, I am just throwing topics out here and if you have a special interest please bring it out here for discussion. I am learning so much from all of you so keep the ideas coming. If we need to slow down the pace on something or you want to speed things up speak up. It's your thread to learn, share and have fun on so please Liberal Ladies make it your own. If you are still holding back send me or someone else out here a PM and I'm sure you can get any help or advice that you need. Don't be shy you are among friends.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I missed it if there was an Occupy newslink. I'd love to enter it with my favorites. Thanks.



midwegian said:


> I think the web has changed up the interest in the problem. We have a much better informed individual tapping into threads such as these, which will create a new perspective throughout. Are you familiar with ReaderSupportedNews? It's a news feed that gleans pertinent articles from all over the world. You can search for topics, but the daily assortment is a brilliant way see the bigger picture. When Occupy started, they were the onlynews service that carried daily updates...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Great list, al, but I must say that the Americans with Disabilities Act is largely the result of disabled people protesting in droves, and the grassroots movement for all sorts of things disabled people wanted for themselves and busted their butts to get. I had the privilege of working at the Center for Independent Living in Berkeley, and CIL did the lion's share of opening the world to a greater acceptance of and accomodation of disabled people. We started with curb cuts paid for by a small grant from the City of Berkeley and went from there. I am very picky and detail oriented, my skills were greatly needed, and I got to be the Recording Secretary for the Board of Directors for almost 3 years, starting after CJL had been in existence for a little over a year. Heady days, for sure, and one of things I am mpst proud of ever being involved in.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Al, thanks for the great post anout unions in the area your father came from.We owe so much to the union movement, and we mustn't forget just how much or allow unions to be destroyed. They are under so much attack these days it's kind of scary.

My paternal great-grandparents emigrated to Wisconsin from Ireland and farmed in Wisconson. My grandfather was born there but eventually settled in Sioux City, Iowa where he was a union organizer in the 1920's and 30's. He was a stationary engineer, and my father was, too, as well as being involved in union organizing after WWII. He was also a statioary engineer and so is my brother. My dad was the youngest chief engineer in his local until my brother became a chief, at a little younger age than my dad.

More stories later. Bazinga for now, and many thanks for the list, too, even though I have a different take on the disabled rights movement.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Heady days, for sure, and one of things I am mpst proud of ever being involved in.


Are you also most proud of this; sending an evil, threatening and bullying PM to a fellow and sweet KP member?

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-197762-1.html

As *all * those who responded to DonnieK suggested, you are one sick individual who thrives on bullying others all in the name of being a Christian and peace negotiator. Leave everyone alone!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Share with us your take when you can.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Al, thanks for the great post anout unions in the area your father came from.We owe so much to the union movement, and we mustn't forget just how much or allow unions to be destroyed. They are under so much attack these days it's kind of scary.
> 
> My paternal great-grandparents emigrated to Wisconsin from Ireland and farmed in Wisconson. My grandfather was born there but eventually settled in Sioux City, Iowa where he was a union organizer in the 1920's and 30's. He was a stationary engineer, and my father was, too, as well as being involved in union organizing after WWII. He was also a statioary engineer and so is my brother. My dad was the youngest chief engineer in his local until my brother became a chief, at a little younger age than my dad.
> 
> More stories later. Bazinga for now, and many thanks for the list, too, even though I have a different take on the disabled rights movement.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Al, thanks for the great post anout unions in the area your father came from.We owe so much to the union movement, and we mustn't forget just how much or allow unions to be destroyed. They are under so much attack these days it's kind of scary.


I think the unions have always been under attack--historically being a union member has always carried with it considerable risks, as shown by the accounts posted in this thread--blacklisting at the very least, and often even more dire consequences. The fact that brave men and women fought for their union membership shows important they felt it was--it's definitely a lesson in courage and for standing up for those things we believe in.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

One interesting note about union-busters is that historically tried to use strained race relations as part of their divide-and-conquer tactics. The Knights of Labor was always open to everyone, irregardless of race, but other unions did limit or entirely block membership by African-Americans. Eventually this policy came back to bite them in the butts as these disgruntled Black members were recruited by the union-busters to act as scabs when the inevitable strike occurred. Happily the unions realized their mistake, and now African-Americans are fully represented in virtually all the unions--in fact, they're 30% more likely to be union members than their Caucasian counterparts.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you also most proud of this; sending an evil, threatening and bullying PM to a fellow and sweet KP member?
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-197762-1.html
> 
> As *all * those who responded to DonnieK suggested, you are one sick individual who thrives on bullying others all in the name of being a Christian and peace negotiator. Leave everyone alone!


I read what she posted to DonnieK too. How dare you post to her that way. She has always been the kindest person as I have read her post.What is your problem that you feel the need to call her names ect. Get over yourself. By the way you are the one who tauted me abaout being a Christian, and you have the gall to post that as a christian.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I see it a bit differently, MIB, not that there wasn't a great deal of heavy lifting that still needed doing... without the civil rights movement of the '60s and '70s the lifting of rights for those with disabilities would have been a whole lot harder.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Great list, al, but I must say that the Americans with Disabilities Act is largely the result of disabled people protesting in droves, and the grassroots movement for all sorts of things disabled people wanted for themselves and busted their butts to get. I had the privilege of working at the Center for Independent Living in Berkeley, and CIL did the lion's share of opening the world to a greater acceptance of and accomodation of disabled people. We started with curb cuts paid for by a small grant from the City of Berkeley and went from there. I am very picky and detail oriented, my skills were greatly needed, and I got to be the Recording Secretary for the Board of Directors for almost 3 years, starting after CJL had been in existence for a little over a year. Heady days, for sure, and one of things I am mpst proud of ever being involved in.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Friends, please ignore and refrain from responding here about what has been posted about my interaction with DonnieK. I believe I did the right thing. I have just started to read DonnieK's thread, "I Received this PM and would like to put it before you", but I as that you also ignore and refrain form posting there. If anyone has questions, please feel free to PM me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> We're foolish to believe difficulty will always pass us by. A sick child...a sick parent....disability. We need help especially at times like this. A union can help greatly.
> 
> Some corporations needing highly skilled workers do offer benefits to help, but not all.


So true, Dame. In America the hire-and-fire-at-will policy is something we take for granted, but in my experience it seems absolutely bizarre to folks from other countries. My husband has been a resident of this country for many years, but even he didn't understand why I dressed so carefully for work while pregnant with our son. I had no choice, of course--one glimpse of that watermelon tummy and my employer would have fired me on the spot.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I didn't mean to slight this little blondie. I somehow missed this one! He's very cute as well as the little girl. Equal time given!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Friends, please ignore and refrain from posting here what has been posted about my interaction with DonnieK. I believe I did the right thing. I have just started to read DonnieK's thread, "I Received this PM and would like to put it before you", but I as that you also ignore and refrain form posting there. If anyone has questions, please feel free to PM me.


Bully, you absolutely did NOT DO THE RIGHT THING. In your usual way, you bullied and insulted and deeply hurt another KP member.

Don't take my word for it, read the multiple posts of all the other KP members that acknowledged that * you are 100% wrong * with your hateful words to DonnieK.

Shut your d--- mouth and leave others alone.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

D


MaidInBedlam said:


> Great list, al, but I must say that the Americans with Disabilities Act is largely the result of disabled people protesting in droves, and the grassroots movement for all sorts of things disabled people wanted for themselves and busted their butts to get. I had the privilege of working at the Center for Independent Living in Berkeley, and CIL did the lion's share of opening the world to a greater acceptance of and accomodation of disabled people. We started with curb cuts paid for by a small grant from the City of Berkeley and went from there. I am very picky and detail oriented, my skills were greatly needed, and I got to be the Recording Secretary for the Board of Directors for almost 3 years, starting after CJL had been in existence for a little over a year. Heady days, for sure, and one of things I am mpst proud of ever being involved in.


Note
List of union contributions was not created by me, it was from Huff Post, who quoted TheNewDeal. I thought Huff Post was given as source.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I didn't mean to slight this little blondie. I somehow missed this one! He's very cute as well as the little girl. Equal time given!


So true, Al. I especially love that he's sitting in a puddle. Priceless!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Friends, please ignore and refrain from responding here what has been posted about my interaction with DonnieK. I believe I did the right thing. I have just started to read DonnieK's thread, "I Received this PM and would like to put it before you", but I as that you also ignore and refrain form posting there. If anyone has questions, please feel free to PM me.


Here's the PM MIB sent to another KP Member; =  P.O.V. Liberal  http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-197762-1.html
----------------------------
From: MaidInBedlam (all from/all to) 
Subject: Faking and Using a KP Member

Your response to my PM is just more proof that you are up to no good. Unfortunately, having been burned by others on KP who describe themselves as you describe yourself, I am both unable and completely unwillling to believe what you've said. I also consider it a form of male chauvinism to be called "honey" by a man I don't know anything about, and who does not have my permission to call me "honey". The fact that you managed to post "Only In America?" without including your avatar speaks volumes. You are a man masquerading as a woman who wants sympathy but whose real intention is to use anyone that comes near to hand.

What you say about your supposed African-American friends is just a variation on saying "some of my best friends are *******.", the statement of racist whites during the Civil Rights Movement that included the foul assasinations of Dr. King, Medgar Evers, Malcom X, Emmett Till, James Meredith and many black folks who were murdered or lynched without their names or their murders ever coming to light.

If you respond to this email I will report you to Admin. I suggest you take this warning very, very seriously. I may be an overly idealistic fool, but I do not tolerate being used by anyone to support their sick agenda.

If I haven't made myself clear, that's your problem. Stay far, far away from me. I know what you are, and have said so. And for the sake of our Redeemer, don't even mention what you pretend to believe as a supposed Christian. You aren't a Christian and if you want to be one, I suggest you spend the rest of your life on your knees begging for the mercy of God in all three of his manifestations, especially if your life is quickly running out.
I have extensive experience of the ways true and fake Christians express themselves, so your suggestion that I re-read your posts is useless. I have read into your posts what is true, whether you like it or not.

----------------------------------
Hypocrite, read and apply your own words that you wrote only three days ago:



MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it really necessary for anyone to make ugly remarks? Why not respond with the kind of decent language we all know how to use?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> D
> Note
> List of union contributions was not created by me, it was from Huff Post, who quoted TheNewDeal. I thought Huff Post was given as source.


I meant no criticism of the list you provided, It was 99% true in my opinion. I said what I said about the Disabled Rights Movement and the ADA because I have extensive knowledge of how the Disabled Rights movement started.

During the first 3 years or so after CIL opened its doors, the CA State Department of Rehabilitation actually warned disabled people to stay away from CIL or suffer a loss of benefits from that department. However, there was a turn around, and in 1976 the then Director of CIL, Ed Roberts, was appointed Directot of the CA Department of Rehabilitation by Jerry Brown.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron wrote:
I didn't mean to slight this little blondie. I somehow missed this one! He's very cute as well as the little girl. Equal time given!

Susanmos2000
So true, Al. I especially love that he's sitting in a puddle. Priceless!

He is all boy! The funny thing is I PRAYED for a girl, and he is just such a joy I can't imagine having him be any different. When he says "watch me, Grammy!" I know I am in for something special.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

They are all precious and grow too fast!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is another woman who helped organize in the labor force.
Mary Kenney O'Sullivan was from a working-class Irish background who became a dressmaker and then worked in a printing and binding factory in Missouri, and several binderies in Chicago. She helped organize the Chicago Women's Bindery Workers' Union, finding support for the union at Hull-House.

In 1892 the American Federation of Labor (AFL) appointed her the first woman general organizer. That same year she joined Mary Kehew in forming the Union for Industrial Progress to help study factory working conditions. After her 1894 marriage to the Boston Globe labor editor, she moved to Boston where she organized rubber makers, shoe workers, laundry workers and garment workers. 

After her husband's death in 1902, though left with three children, she continued her work with the AFL, managed a model tenement and also stayed connected to the settlement house movement.

In 1903 she joined with William Walling, another settlement house resident, in organizing the Women's Trade Union League.

From 1914-1934 she worked as a factory inspector for the Division of Industrial Safety in Massachusetts.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is another female activist!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Harris_Jones


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I meant no criticism of the list you provided, It was 99% true in my opinion. I said what I said about the Disabled Rights Movement and the ADA because I have extensive knowledge of how the Disabled Rights movement started.
> 
> During the first 3 years or so after CIL opened its doors, the CA State Department of Rehabilitation actually warned disabled people to stay away from CIL or suffer a loss of benefits from that department. However, there was a turn around, and in 1976 the then Director of CIL, Ed Roberts, was appointed Directot of the CA Department of Rehabilitation by Jerry Brown.


Ignore that gnat that keeps flying around. We do.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is another female activist!
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Harris_Jones


I had no idea that the _ Mother Jones _ publication was named after this woman. I love her slogan "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living." What a dynamo!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I had no idea that the _ Mother Jones _ publication was named after this woman. I love her slogan "Pray for the dead and fight like hell for the living." What a dynamo!


She was an amazing woman, Susan. Allof the women we have posted about are. Most of these women were on the other side of the coin in their working days.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She was an amazing woman, Susan. Allof the women we have posted about are. Most of these women were on the other side of the coin in their working days.


I expect that oftentimes what it takes. The notion of walking a mile in someone else's shoes certainly applies here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I expect that oftentimes what it takes. The notion of walking a mile in someone else's shoes certainly applies here.


When my grandmother turned 16 she went to work in a hat factory. The same kind of hats we are sporting for our tea party. She worked from 6 am til 9pm. They had 1 fifteen minute break to eat.She told me stories of women fainting from exhaustion and many foremen would not let them have bathroom breaks when needed. She later went to work for a private millner who paid her well and gave her bonuses for her designs.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> When my grandmother turned 16 she went to work in a hat factory. The same kind of hats we are sporting for our tea party. She worked from 6 am til 9pm. They had 1 fifteen minute break to eat.She told me stories of women fainting from exhaustion and many foremen would not let them have bathroom breaks when needed. She later went to work for a private millner who paid her well and gave her bonuses for her designs.


Thank goodness she broke away from the sweatshop. But abuses like that can be found in every business and industry. In the late 30s/early 40s my grandmother, who worked as a bank teller, had to have most of her teeth extracted. Since she absolutely couldn't take time off without losing her job she had to have one or two pulled each day during her lunch hour--then report back to the bank and work to the end of her shift!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thank goodness she broke away from the sweatshop. But abuses like that can be found in every business and industry. In the late 30s/early 40s my grandmother, who worked as a bank teller, had to have most of her teeth extracted. Since she absolutely couldn't take time off without losing her job she had to have one or two pulled each day during her lunch hour--then report back to the bank and work to the end of her shift!


Sounds like the first jewelry shop I worked in. One of my coworker's mother passed away. The owner made her come back to work right after the funeral.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sounds like the first jewelry shop I worked in. One of my coworker's mother passed away. The owner made her come back to work right after the funeral.


Simon Legree lives, I'm afraid.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, have to run to the grocery store. Catch you on the flip side, ladies. Bazinga!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, have to run to the grocery store. Catch you on the flip side, ladies. Bazinga!


Bazinga!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Joey - thanks for posting Walker's extraordinary success! What happened and is succeeding in WI sets the tone for the rest of the United States.

TAXPAYERS FIRST: *Walkers reforms saved WI taxpayers millions and millions of dollars*

But what part of Walkers message do the unions object to and why?

It worked.

According to an analysis by the Beacon Hill Institute for Public Policy Research, at Suffolk University in Boston, *Walkers Act 10 saved Wisconsin taxpayers more than a billion dollars.*

Had Walker not pursued the course he did, Wisconsin governments would have been forced to raise taxes or cut services.

The study also revealed that * at least 11,500 Wisconsin jobs were saved because governments didnt raise taxes on small business owners.*

What other part of Walkers message might unions loathe?

Perhaps its the *worker freedom.*

Walker ... * he did significantly limit the power unions had over Badger State taxpayers. In turn, union membership plummeted after he signed the law.*

But, if unions have their way, status quo  forced unionism and constant tax increases  remain in place indefinitely.

Not in your state, indeed! 

:thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is a link to read about the Lowell Mill Girls

http://www.nps.gov/lowe/planyourvisit/upload/mill%20girls.pdf


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hello all you lovely Liberal Ladies. In continuing our conversation on Unions I have attached two links for you to read to help us understand how unions not only brought improvements to their own worker's lives but to non Union workers as well. I hope you will read them and share your own experience with Unions or ask questions you may have about present day Unions and why they are even more important for us today.
> 
> Here are just two of the many links you can find on the internet but many more are out there to look at from a variety of perspectives.
> 
> ...


Great reads, Cheeky. OSHA is most needed in today's work places. Thanks to unions, they are there.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> When my grandmother turned 16 she went to work in a hat factory. The same kind of hats we are sporting for our tea party. She worked from 6 am til 9pm. They had 1 fifteen minute break to eat.She told me stories of women fainting from exhaustion and many foremen would not let them have bathroom breaks when needed. She later went to work for a private millner who paid her well and gave her bonuses for her designs.


BrattyPatty
still have some poor working conditions. Example: WalMart


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Somebody is very worried that she will have to pay more for the items she sells which were made by others. Time they too get fair pay.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Somebody is very worried that she will have to pay more for the items she sells which were made by others. Time they too get fair pay.


You got that right! 
Several years ago, gem distributors were boycotting rubies from Myanmar because of the unfair trade practices they incurred on the workers there. The working conditions were filthy, the cutters and polishers were overworked and literally beaten if they didn't keep up the pace. Hence, the rubies being sent over to us were inferior in cut and overall appearance.
Many distributors went to Africa ( the jewelry box of the world)
for their rubies. It was too bad because Burmese rubies were the most beautiful. They later found that they were smuggling rubies into Myanmar from Viet Nam which were much lower in grade, but they were trying to pass them off as Burmese rubies.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Scott Walker Approval Rating Not So Hot: Poll (published 9/04/13

MILWAUKEE  A majority of Wisconsin residents disapprove of Republican Gov. Scott Walker's performance and are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the state, according to a new poll released Wednesday.

The University of Wisconsin Survey Center's Badger Poll found that 59 percent of residents disapprove of the performance of Walker, who took office in January and wasted no time pushing divisive legislation through the Republican-controlled Legislature, including a law that stripped most public employees of their collective bargaining rights.

The poll found that legislative Democrats, among them 14 state senators who fled the state to try to block a vote on the union rights law, aren't doing much better, with 48 percent of respondents disapproving of their job performance.

Walker, who previously served eight years as the Milwaukee County Executive, said he was not concerned by the findings.

"If I governed based on polls, I would have never been the county executive," Walker said. "There's not a pollster alive in 2002 who would have told you I could even come close to being elected. I was elected three times because I think in times of crisis, what people want more than anything is leadership. ... We're going to continue to show leadership."

The pollster noted that the likely reason for Walker's disapproval rate is that 55 percent of respondents said they opposed his two-year budget plan, which made deep cuts to public education to deal with a $3 billion budget shortfall.

Democratic Party of Wisconsin chairman Mike Tate said the results show the state is very partisan and that people are unhappy with Republicans.

"There are a lot of voters who gave Republicans a chance last November and we are seeing a pretty serious case of buyer's remorse," he said.

The poll found that 55 percent of respondents were dissatisfied with the way things are going in Wisconsin, the highest percentage since the university started asking the question in 2006.

This, like many of the results, was split down party lines, said Katherine Cramer Walsh, a political science professor at UW-Madison who helped with the poll. Sixty-three percent of Republicans were satisfied, compared to 21 percent of Democrats.

Nine state senators  six Republicans and three Democrats, are facing recall elections in the next few weeks  the fallout from the bitter fight over Walker's collective bargaining law, which eventually survived a court challenge and took effect. The Democrats would need a net gain of three seats to give them control of the Senate and check on Republican power.

Walker said he believes a majority of people said they were unhappy with the direction of the state because of anger over the recall election campaigns and frustration with the national economy.

"I think a lot more people will be happy come Aug. 10 when most of these recalls are done because in general people are tired of these endless campaigns," Walker said.

However, the poll found that 78 percent of respondents believe having the recall option is a good thing, and half of the respondents said the current recall efforts made them feel better about Wisconsin politics.

The poll also found that:

_Nearly two-thirds of respondents felt that state government is run for the benefit of big interests, rather than the benefit of the people, and that state government can only be trusted to do the right thing some of the time.

_Fifty-six percent of respondents disapproved of the performance of the Republicans in state Legislature.

_Four out of five respondents said Wisconsin is in "bad times," economically. Fifty percent of respondents expected that the state's economic conditions would remain about the same over the next 12 months, and 20 percent expected they would worsen.

Walsh said she was a little surprised that so many people supported the recall option in the state constitution. But that was about the only surprise, she said.

"It's been pretty clear that Wisconsinites are a bit dismayed with the state of things, both the economy and politics, and that comes across pretty clear in these results," she said.

The random telephone poll of 556 people conducted between June 17 and July 10 has a margin of error of plus or minus 4.2 percentage points.

___

Associated Press writer Scott Bauer in Madison contributed to this report.

FOLLOW HUFFPOST POLITICS


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

He is also owned by the Koch Brothers. Interesting article I found.

http://www.polluterwatch.com/koch-industries


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I see it a bit differently, MIB, not that there wasn't a great deal of heavy lifting that still needed doing... without the civil rights movement of the '60s and '70s the lifting of rights for those with disabilities would have been a whole lot harder.


I tend to agree with jelun and Andrea on this issue MIB. I grew up on the Iron Range as Andrea did. I remember very well people coming down with polio and having to be in "iron lungs" to breath, becoming crippled and dying from this terrible disease. These were friends and relatives and it was the Unions along with cooperation of the mining companies too who got help and assistance that people needed for those people disabled by polio or other illnesses or accidents. The Disability Act wasn't signed until 1990 by President Bush and this was 40 years earlier. Since whole families moved to this very isolated place the workers and mining companies began to get along much better with each other and we took care of our own for the mutual benefit of everyone and when families of upper management moved to these towns relationships got even better and more cooperative. My kindergarten teacher could not walk up the stairs in the school as she became crippled and had to walk with two canes. The mining company provided the materials and union men built a mechanical lift so this teacher could easily get access in and out of the school. Another teacher was in an iron lung for a time and recovered but was wheel chair bound so a ramp was built for him at the high school so he had access and could return to his teaching job. He was also provided with special equipment in the classroom to make it easier for him to do his job. The company also provided materials to the local churches as the aging population started to need access to their buildings and church members did the construction. This contributed to a feeling of good will between both sides so at least in these communities we had already dealt with a lot of these issues. I also remember men who had come back from WWII and Korea with missing limbs and other physical limitations who were given jobs that they could do given the limitations they had and also special accommodations so they could access work sites. I think when you are in communities like this you know everyone and realize all people want to be useful and a part of their community and Unions saw to it that people got what they needed and they could do so because they were an organized group of people taking care of each other so if anything these towns were ahead of the curve in helping people with disabilities. Granted I think it would be much easier to do in small towns versus a large urban area but I would like to give credit where credit is due.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He is also owned by the Koch Brothers. Interesting article I found.
> 
> http://www.polluterwatch.com/koch-industries


Yes, we know they are crooks, but sometimes it helps to reread all the info. Thanks Patty


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I tend to agree with jelun and Andrea on this issue MIB. I grew up on the Iron Range as Andrea did. I remember very well people coming down with polio and having to be in "iron lungs" to breath, becoming crippled and dying from this terrible disease. These were friends and relatives and it was the Unions along with cooperation of the mining companies too who got help and assistance that people needed for those people disabled by polio or other illnesses or accidents. The Disability Act wasn't signed until 1990 by President Bush and this was 40 years earlier. Since whole families moved to this very isolated place the workers and mining companies began to get along much better with each other and we took care of our own for the mutual benefit of everyone and when families of upper management moved to these towns relationships got even better and more cooperative. My kindergarten teacher could not walk up the stairs in the school as she became crippled and had to walk with two canes. The mining company provided the materials and union men built a mechanical lift so this teacher could easily get access in and out of the school. Another teacher was in an iron lung for a time and recovered but was wheel chair bound so a ramp was built for him at the high school so he had access and could return to his teaching job. He was also provided with special equipment in the classroom to make it easier for him to do his job. The company also provided materials to the local churches as the aging population started to need access to their buildings and church members did the construction. This contributed to a feeling of good will between both sides so at least in these communities we had already dealt with a lot of these issues. I also remember men who had come back from WWII and Korea with missing limbs and other physical limitations who were given jobs that they could do given the limitations they had and also special accommodations so they could access work sites. I think when you are in communities like this you know everyone and realize all people want to be useful and a part of their community and Unions saw to it that people got what they needed and they could do so because they were an organized group of people taking care of each other so if anything these towns were ahead of the curve in helping people with disabilities. Granted I think it would be much easier to do in small towns versus a large urban area but I would like to give credit where credit is due.


Thank you for these anecdotes, Cheeky. I usually associate unions with "benevolent" in my mind because the actions of unions in those times and in those places were for the good of the people.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

This is an automated notice.

This topic was split up because it reached high page count.
Please feel free to continue the conversation in the new topic that was automatically created here:

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