# Obamacare #6



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It's not my fault you can't use a reliable, unbiased site. And of course you would never use an unbiased site. You couldn't risk posting something that would prove you wrong.


joeysomma said:


> If you don't think my information is correct, find a website that says what you think it should be. Please post it. I wonder what else we will find in Obamacare that will be a surprise.
> 
> Obamacare was sold as helping those who did not have insurance to get insurance. Then "good health care". It seems that instead of anyone having "good health care," we all may have "some health care."


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then I guess you don't care if the information posted on this thread is right or wrong.
> 
> So I guess what I post is correct unless you can prove it wrong.


Check out the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/things-you-need-to-know-about-the-affordable-care-act-and-prescription-drugs--but-probably-dont/2013/12/09/c00054c4-5eba-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

All you need to do is check , which I did, what type of site it came from to know it's biased. So, it's wrong.


joeysomma said:


> Then I guess you don't care if the information posted on this thread is right or wrong.
> 
> So I guess what I post is correct unless you can prove it wrong.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


Are you perhaps referring to the snail darter? Yes, there were posters all over CA's central valley denouncing this environmental act.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I don't remember posting anything about insurance, so you'll have to go back and see who it is you think you are talking about on that one.....And your post is biased.......so it's wrong.


joeysomma said:


> So the site I posted had more information than yours. Yours says nothing about what happens if the insurance refuses to cover the Rx.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I don't remember posting anything about insurance, so you'll have to go back and see who it is you think you are talking about on that one.....And your post is biased.......so it's wrong.


I posted the article...........rocky1991


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

In my eyes it doesn't make it right either..... I just can't believe biased propaganda......sorry!


joeysomma said:


> What is the ACA or Obamacare if it is not insurance? It is NOT healthcare.
> 
> Even if you think it is biased, does not make it wrong.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I remember seeing a special on TV about that stupidity. How thousands or residents had no water and lost acres of land that was destroyed and many had to abandon their homes/jobs, etc. No common sense at all by the environmentalists.
> 
> I since heard that the fish is overpopulating and destroying other lakes or streams and is becoming a real problem. I don't remember many of the facts, just that the problem is beyond what happened in the immediate area of CA in the original story.


Is it the Asian Carp that you are talking about in the above paragraph, KPG? That species will destroy native fish populations in the lakes and streams it establishes itself in.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I don't remember posting anything about insurance, so you'll have to go back and see who it is you think you are talking about on that one.....And your post is biased.......so it's wrong.


Why would they refuse to cover the RX? Some pharmaceutical companies also help patients if they can not afford a particular drug,


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Are you perhaps referring to the snail darter? Yes, there were posters all over CA's central valley denouncing this environmental act.


Mmm...I thought she meant the Delta smelt. Also a serious issue here.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The young, college age and late 20's group are finally seeing it for themselves. Obamacare has really opened their eyes.


I hope it's only the beginning of their 'eye opening' and becomes a seminal moment. :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sorry I did not see that Rocky answered.
> 
> Even if anyone thinks the article is biased, it does not make it wrong.


1.

unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.
"we will not tolerate this biased media coverage"

1.

cause to feel or show inclination or prejudice for or against someone or something.
"readers said the paper was biased toward the conservatives"

synonyms: prejudice, influence, color, sway, weight, predispose; More
distort, skew, slant

"this may have biased the result"

prejudiced, partial, partisan, one-sided, blinkered; 
bigoted, intolerant, discriminatory;

distorted, warped, twisted, skewed

"a biased view of the situation"


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I did read it the first time......I'm going to tell you again, and explain to you what the word biased means.....(BIASED - unfairly prejudiced for or against someone or something.) Everything on that page was Obama bashing....and you expect me to believe it????? IT'S BIASED!!!!!! Okay??? Got it now?????


joeysomma said:


> Read this article:
> http://conservativebyte.com/2013/12/cant-keep-drugs-either-obamacare/#uXh0Xbl6EFR5slwI.99


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Is it the Asian Carp that you are talking about in the above paragraph, KPG? That species will destroy native fish populations in the lakes and streams it establishes itself in.


They are in the Midwest, and environmentalists want to keep them out of the Great Lakes.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Why would they refuse to cover the RX? Some pharmaceutical companies also help patients if they can not afford a particular drug,


The conservatives want to cause fear and the worst thing that could happen to them is that Obamacare is successful.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> They are in the Midwest, and environmentalists want to keep them out of the Great Lakes.


I believe they have penetrated the barrier set up to keep them out of Lake Michigan. It's a losing battle.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I believe they have penetrated the barrier set up to keep them out of Lake Michigan. It's a losing battle.


That is too bad, introducing a non native species with no natural enemies is recipe for disaster.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> How many coal plants use the BEST clean technology?


I'll let you do that research yourself, but if given the opportunity, the numbers would increase - that option isn't available for the plants that have been shut down.

Put it into perspective...
- when lead was deemed unsafe, it was phased out of gasoline but the refineries weren't closed and nor was gas taken off the market
- asbestos was taken out of wall board and paint, the factories producing the products weren't shut down
- over the years seat belt, car seat and helmet use have become mandatory along with many other safety measures, all of which were phased in over time without closing down an industry


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Live in the real world much?


I do. If you truly live in a community where the majority are filled with greed and corruption amongst your neighbours, services, and businesses, you have my utmost sympathy


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think I'm being cynical at all. Remember West, TX? A lot of people around here made "Remember West, TX" a slogan for a while. If we are talking about the motives if individuals, I believe there is a possibility that greed and corruption don't motivate some individuals. If we're talking about businesses, greed and corruption are two of the things they worship deeply and perform as often as they possibly can. Keep in mind that, after all, I'm talking about US business practices.
> 
> This is from a Reuters report made on 4/20/2013, three days after the explosion.
> 
> ...


**********************************
Evil and corruption do exist in all parts of the world, but I still believe it to be a minority of people. Some people are also foolish and some occasionally make bad decisions that can have serious consequences. Businesses are just legal entities - they are owned and operated by people - people don't suddenly become ogres just because they've walked thru the doors of a business.

What about all of the plants and factories that have never had an explosion? What about all the businesses that follow safety procedures? What about all of the business that regularly donate money and services to their community? What about the businesses that provide scholarships and bursuries to students?

There's always going to be room for improvement. Serious safety infractions should have severe consequences. But it's just wrong to demonize business the way so many on this thread have done.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What is the ACA or Obamacare if it is not insurance? It is NOT healthcare.


The ACA is *not* insurance. It is *about* insurance. Simply put, it mandates that everyone should have health insurance, that those with pre-existing conditions can't be excluded, and allows individuals to participate, in effect, in the type of collective bargaining that cities and businesses do in order to get their insurance at lower prices. Nor does the ACA itself provide insurance--instead, if you decide to use either the federal or your state site, you will find that the policies you see will be through ordinary insurance companies, such as Kaiser, Blue Shield, Met, etc.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> BTW, you and others can hold your breathe until you turn blue but global warming is a fact. Just what is an LWN, anyway?


Uh, no  guess you can only make assumptions and are a LWN after all. Toodles!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I was referring to you and your cohorts, but you are too stupid to know that, My heartfelt sympathy for you and them.


Me too!

How unfortunate that you could not understand two simple words. I've tried again; hope you get it this time. It is pretty simple, even for you.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> The ACA is *not* insurance. It is *about* insurance. Simply put, it mandates that everyone should have health insurance, that those with pre-existing conditions can't be excluded, and allows individuals to participate, in effect, in the type of collective bargaining that cities and businesses do in order to get their insurance at lower prices. Nor does the ACA itself provide insurance--instead, if you decide to use either the federal or your state site, you will find that the policies you see will be through ordinary insurance companies, such as Kaiser, Blue Shield, Met, etc.


Exactly, thank you!!

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Actually you are too "simple" to do anything that I would want.


Oh, thank God. I would not want you to leave anything undone that was beneath you or over your head. I certainly hope you can find someone, anyone, to please you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Just like the Chinese, where their cities are full of coal waste and debris, so you can't go outside, have to wear a mask if you do and do not under any l sell them all the coal they want and allow them to continue to pollute the earth's atmosphere.


Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once! 

What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


We have similar horror stories here. There are a group of people trying to push for a by-law that would require a community review and permit to have ANY trees removed on private property. Of course this would have to be paid for by property taxes. And I somehow doubt they would be willing to pay for damages if a tree fell on my house or car


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Got that fro Fox News, did you?


Nope.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> You failed to read the whole article. You must read to the end of it to find out that polar bears are thriving some places and declining in other places. Overall, we can not say Thriving.


What the heck are you talking about? I didn't read _any_ article, and I can say anything I want. I don't work for you, remember? So I didn't fail or listen to your command of what I 'must do.'

Oh, one more thing? You're wrong.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Is it the Asian Carp that you are talking about in the above paragraph, KPG? That species will destroy native fish populations in the lakes and streams it establishes itself in.


I don't think so. I know the Asian Carp is a problematic fish invading our waters but do not believe that is the fish that destroyed the CA town/city and farm lands in the show I'm referencing.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> The conservatives want to cause fear and the worst thing that could happen to them is that Obamacare is successful.


You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I wonder why a fertilizer company is required to "self report" rather than have a monthly inspection of the plant. If the government is limiting the amount of fertilizer, then it should be part of their job to monitor the fertilizer companies, not have a self reporting business owner. If the government deems it so important, with obvious reasons, they should do their best to monitor those requirements. I'm tired of hearing the excuses of we don't have enough personnel or it just slipped through the cracks. If the government can make the regulations, then they should enforce said regulations without excuses.


I agree with you. The same also applies to Nussa's statements of rules not being enforced in her state. IMO they should simplify the rules to include only those of real safety and protection and they should be enforced with regular random spot checks and proper whistle blower protection.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Me too!
> 
> How unfortunate that you could not understand two simple words. I've tried again; hope you get it this time. It is pretty simple, even for you.


as I said before, I feel sorry for stupid people. Unfortunately you are 1 of those stupid people my sympathies to you and yours. Toodlrs!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> as I said before, I feel sorry for stupid people. Unfortunately you are 1 of those stupid people my sympathies to you and yours. Toodlrs!


Here I go and will say for a third time, "Me too!"

Except I say and said, "Toodles."


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

totpresentgifts said:


> Oh, thank God. I would not want you to leave anything undone that was beneath you or over your head. I certainly hope you can find someone, anyone, to please you.


I certainly do have people who please me not you dear but from what I can see you don't please anyone I don't think that you even please yourself you Appear to e very simple minded and to be pitied you have a wonderful evening and be well
be sure to take your medicines, you know that taking your psychiatric meds is very important.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I agree with you. The same also applies to Nussa's statements of rules not being enforced in her state. IMO they should simplify the rules to include only those of real safety and protection and they should be enforced with regular random spot checks and proper whistle blower protection.


 :thumbup: I agree. However, the Obama Administration, through the DOJ, the Executive Branch, the IRS and the Security Agencies of the USA, have punished, demoted, fired, fined and falsely accused some recent whistle blowers in the areas of National Security, Immigration, business regulations, taxes and tax status for organizations, etc.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

uote=knitpresentgifts]Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once! 

What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?[/quote]

you know that during the Olympics in China they had to stagger the manufacturing plants to keep the pollution levels low I guess you haven't been to China in a long time but that's okay you can go back anytime and breathe the polluted air have a wonderful time in China we will miss you here on knitting paradise forum.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I certainly do have people who please me not you dear but from what I can see you don't please anyone I don't think that you even please yourself you Appear to e very simple minded and to be pitied you have a wonderful evening and be well
> be sure to take your medicines, you know that taking your psychiatric meds is very important.


Well, as you stated, you are legally blind and cannot see much of anything, so I'll just go ahead and forgive you for your stupidity and inaccurate assessment of me. I understand things do not appear to you as they actually are.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope.


 Bet you did ssweetie. then where did you get your information? Care to share?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What the heck are you talking about? I didn't read _any_ article, and I can say anything I want. I don't work for you, remember? So I didn't fail or listen to your command of what I 'must do.'
> 
> Oh, one more thing? You're wrong.


honey why are you so angry? Someone p and your soup?I am very infrequently wrong however you on the other hand are wrong most of the time. Do you think I am commanding you to do anything? Why would I I don't give a tinker's dam about you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.


I am wondering why you live in such a fearful world. I am Not Afraid of Obama I am Not Afraid of Obamacare I am afraid of people like you who are not very intelligent and spread hateful and you erroneous information. why is the United States 25th in the world in healthcare?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Only an idiot would choose to take a biased site's post as Gospel.....You can believe whatever you want.....It's a free country, and I can believe what I want. So get over it. I know this won't stop your posts to me....I know you both tend to beat that dead horse to a pulp....So, do what you feel you have to do. But it just makes you both look more stupid. :roll:


joeysomma said:


> Are you unwilling to believe the truth because someone who you do not like says it?
> 
> I wonder who you consider unbiased? What sources do you think are unbiased?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Holy smokes......she's deemed herself Pope......now she's granting people forgiveness....... What next???


knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, as you stated, you are legally blind and cannot see much of anything, so I'll just go ahead and forgive you for your stupidity and inaccurate assessment of me. I understand things do not appear to you as they actually are.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> you know that during the Olympics in China they had to stagger the manufacturing plants to keep the pollution levels low I guess you haven't been to China in a long time but that's okay you can go back anytime and breathe the polluted air have a wonderful time in China we will miss you here on knitting paradise forum.


Yep, you've never been to China or Asia; exactly as I suspected. Your loss.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Bet you did ssweetie. then where did you get your information? Care to share?


Nope. Still don't work for you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's the point......it was your post and I disagreed with it.......I don't have to provide you with a correct one......You'll just have to keep looking till you can find one that is done in a non biased way.....which I might add......is neigh onto impossible on either side.....that's why you shouldn't post things that can not be verified honestly. It's just that your opinion, isn't mine. All I've done is to tell you I don't believe what you posted, I sure didn't know it was going to drive you crazy trying to convince me it's true.....It really isn't that important to me who believes your post and who doesn't. My life does not revolve around it. I think you need to move on to a new subject.... :thumbup:


joeysomma said:


> Okay you say the site I used was biased, I'll agree it says what I believe. What sites are unbiased? Then I will look for one of them to get unbiased news, I have no idea what is unbiased. I will not know unless you tell me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> honey why are you so angry? Someone p and your soup?I am very infrequently wrong however you on the other hand are wrong most of the time. Do you think I am commanding you to do anything? Why would I I don't give a tinker's dam about you.


Honey, child, you would first have to matter to me, to have any control or influence over me with your demands and words. If you didn't give a darn about me you wouldn't continue to read my every word and address me regularly or at all as you said long ago you ignore me.

Too bad you are not good for your word. Yet, I've forgiven you as has another your faults and sins.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I am wondering why you live in such a fearful world. I am Not Afraid of Obama I am Not Afraid of Obamacare I am afraid of people like you who are not very intelligent and spread hateful and you erroneous information. why is the United States 25th in the world in healthcare?


Wow, your world is full of fear!

I'm not afraid of anything but failing in the eyes of My Father and God PERIOD. Yet, he has saved me with his Grace, and I fear not for He is with me ALWAYS.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

What ever! I'm just glad you're done with this subject.. :roll:


joeysomma said:


> My final comment on this subject. Your definition of an unbiased site is actually biased to your way of thinking. Therefore there will never be an unbiased site.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> My final comment on this subject. Your definition of an unbiased site is actually biased to your way of thinking. Therefore there will never be an unbiased site.


 :thumbup:  to her way of thinking.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup:


 :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I wonder why a fertilizer company is required to "self report" rather than have a monthly inspection of the plant. If the government is limiting the amount of fertilizer, then it should be part of their job to monitor the fertilizer companies, not have a self reporting business owner. If the government deems it so important, with obvious reasons, they should do their best to monitor those requirements. I'm tired of hearing the excuses of we don't have enough personnel or it just slipped through the cracks. If the government can make the regulations, then they should enforce said regulations without excuses.


You're being very silly. If self-reporting was replaced by investigations requiring outside agencies, most of us would end up working as inspectors and funds for little things like national defense would melt away. It isn't possible to enforce all rules and regulations governing businesses by outside inspection. We would be burried in red tape to such a great extent that nothing else would get done. Why do you think self-reporting exists? It certainly isn't intended to guarantee any real regulation of negative business practices.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.


Ha Ha ha , there she goes again, getting it all wrong. 
rocky, she is not worth the typing. She knows nothing and has no facts to prove her points.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> She has every right to be upset after being blasted very unkindly by KPG. The "lefties" are always accused of nastiness when there's plenty coming from the other side. Her attack was particularly demeaning and cruel. It's beyond me how KPG says what she does while having Bible quotes under her name. That's why people make disparaging remarks about Christians.


That's very easy to figure out, al. She is a complete farce.
And just as I said before, she's nothing but a troll named Cherf.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Oh as a Hilarycultist you should know when that question was asked it was answered, and it was so long ago what does it matter?
> 
> Why can't you watch a simple cartoon? Afraid that it tells the truth?


A cartoon that tells the truth? I grew out of cartoons years ago. 
Since you won't give an answer I will presume that you are lying as usual.

Look everyone! LTL learned a new word.! cultist. Stupid but at least she spelled it correctly.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Unions are making huge contributions to influence elections. Would you rather live in slavery under a socialistic government? I would not! :thumbdown:


As do the Heritage foundation and the Koch brothers.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Holy smokes......she's deemed herself Pope......now she's granting people forgiveness....... What next???


It's that God complex she has.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why not? She's already blaming Obama's economy for her unprofitable craft sale last weekend--natural for her to assume that he's manipulating her keyboard to make her look even more foolish than usual.


One would only have to look at the junk she calls crafts to see why her sale was slow.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see you haven't forgotten anything you think you know.


It's called diarhea of the mouth, Dame.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And she has a whole gaggle of sycophants buffaloed to hang on her every word. Doesn't anyone on the right do her own reading and form her own opinion? How can people have so little self-respect that they can't read and think for themselves?


     
It sure takes my interest away. Dumb.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


KPG is projecting again, NJG. I guess her shrink dumped her knowing there is no cure for what she is.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> KPG said I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you. That is fine by me.
> 
> Wrong again, KPG If you had as much class as you pretend you have and even half the knowledge you say you have, you wouldn't be making so many mistakes and telling so many lies. If you were the good Christian you want everyone to believe you are, you wouldn't be so nasty. You can't just voice an opinion about something, you have to slam and trash another person first. So petty, it just proves you don't have the knowledge you say you have so you put the emphasis on the other person instead of the info you are passing along. You think, wrongly of course, that if you trash someone else no one will notice your lack of knowledge. It's not working!


You got that right, NJG! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is sick, even for you.

The only reason I'm not totally ignoring you is I don't like to let you get away with trying to insult a friend whom I have always known to be intelligent and interesting.

You always spout the same pompous rhetoric and try to divert the topic. You are annoying.



knitpresentgifts said:


> And you are a bitter, rude and cynical old lady.
> 
> My words you keep repeating were some of the VERY FIRST of my comments to Nussa, Susan and WCK all part of the conversation about fracking for natural gas. That quote was to WCK as she and I were in agreement pointing out Nussa's error. I made *no mistake* and I stand by those, my words. BTW: no one is able to make a mistake when voicing their opinion *you idiot.*
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> "For every one who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well we all know who will end up on the bottom of the heap.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Oooooh, she should be very very scared of this true Christian! Cut the threats and live up to your Christianity. KPG, have you no shame? You're such an embarrassment to true believers!


She's an embarrassment to all.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Rocky. So glad to see you back at KP. Missed your comments.



rocky1991 said:


> What entitlements are you talking about?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So very wise. I shall attempt to follow your lead.



rocky1991 said:


> It is so difficult trying to speak to stupid people, so I just pity them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I never once mentioned Fracking for natural gas....I posted a site about the oil companies burning off the natural gas, when they could be capping it, and making use of it.
> The oil companies are Fracking for OIL!!!
> So once again.....KPG, they were right & you were WRONG!
> KPG - Quote - (I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you.)
> And very conceited as well.....and not to mention delusional.... :roll:


It's her verbal flatulance getting out of control again, Nussa.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well we all know who will end up on the bottom of the heap.


It's already at the bottom of the heap. Can't you smell the sulpher and brimstone, dame?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you all the way on this one MIB. US corporations illustrate the very worst of capitalism.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think I'm being cynical at all. Remember West, TX? A lot of people around here made "Remember West, TX" a slogan for a while. If we are talking about the motives if individuals, I believe there is a possibility that greed and corruption don't motivate some individuals. If we're talking about businesses, greed and corruption are two of the things they worship deeply and perform as often as they possibly can. Keep in mind that, after all, I'm talking about US business practices.
> 
> This is from a Reuters report made on 4/20/2013, three days after the explosion.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey, the Imbecile, understands cut and paste too well.



joeysomma said:


> Obama the Imbecile Misunderstands Obamacare
> 
> By David Lawrence
> 11 December 2013
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find cut & pasting someone's blog insulting. What possible worth is that to our discussion? I personally doubt the things she has claimed in her life's work.



alcameron said:


> Is there no end to the lack of civility and disrespect coming from the right? Talk about name-calling and lying! And people have the gall to criticize Martin Bashir for bashing Sarah Palin? Why are you still reading and posting this crap, Joey? Why can't you be just a little balanced in what you read? No astute individual would give this stuff the time of day. If you really are an educated person you have to be able to weigh things you read and decide if they're baloney.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd like to give him a few more knocks to the noggin.



susanmos2000 said:


> Agree 100%, Al. Joey's post is the biggest load of BS I've seen for a while. I also see that the writer, David Lawrence, was a professional boxer. No surprise there--it's obvious from the way he expresses himself that he's taken one too many shots to the head.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You disgust me.



galinipper said:


> I actually liked your post the way it was, thought it was rather funny. You may be able to sell that bride to Obama after Michelle's reaction to him getting all mack daddy with Denmark's PM at Mandela's memorial.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once!
> 
> What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?


Hey, moron, just google China pollution and you will see pics of the Chinese wearing masks because the air quality is so poor. Runwa models are shown wearing masks in China as well. It may have been decade since you have been there but it does not mean the problem does not exist.
rocky, you are supposed to be impressed because it has been to China, didn't you know?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To throw Will Shakespeare paraphrase into the mix:

A statement told by an idiot, signifying nothing.



rocky1991 said:


> Truly a statement told by an idiot. Thank you for your post, made my morning.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OOOOO Good zing, Rocky.



rocky1991 said:


> You must know lots about pimps...galinipper...who's your mack daddy?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Global warming is an accepted scientific fact. Keep your fingers in your ears until you realize the water is rising and the sky is falling.



soloweygirl said:


> I suppose the record breaking low temperature in the Antarctic is proof that the earth is warming. It was -135.6F. That's right, minus triple digit temperatures, the coldest on record. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think much ice will be melting there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd say that just about covers it NJG.



NJG said:


> KPG said I know this: I have so much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than you. That is fine by me.
> 
> Wrong again, KPG If you had as much class as you pretend you have and even half the knowledge you say you have, you wouldn't be making so many mistakes and telling so many lies. If you were the good Christian you want everyone to believe you are, you wouldn't be so nasty. You can't just voice an opinion about something, you have to slam and trash another person first. So petty, it just proves you don't have the knowledge you say you have so you put the emphasis on the other person instead of the info you are passing along. You think, wrongly of course, that if you trash someone else no one will notice your lack of knowledge. It's not working!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

KPG, let's get one thing straight. No one would hire you for anything, regardless of salary involved.

You have no knowledge. You certainly don't get along with people. You try to disrupt everyone's thought processes.

Why would anyone want you around? Answer. We don't.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Amazingly simple; there is no amount of money for which you could pay me to work for you (my current billing rate aside).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sometimes I find myself rooting for the cockroaches to take over the earth, then I realize they have.



soloweygirl said:


> There was also the farm land, very fertile land, in CA that was put to waste because of some small fish. At least 40K people lost their jobs and the land owners now have useless land. This was so ridiculous because the fish could have been relocated and prevented what happened to the farmers and laborers. The environmentalists prevailed. I hope they sleep well knowing what their "achievement" caused the residents of CA.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess distance doesn't matter when you're dense.



soloweygirl said:


> I live in Oklahoma, how much closer should I get?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Wrong again KPG. First of all Forbes is definitely a conservative site. Whether you call it Reaganomics, supply side economics, trickle down economics, or [your term] triple down economics, it means giving the tax cuts to the rich and hope the benefits trickle down to the poor and it was Reagans idea, a republican way of doing business. It is a term attributed to Will Rogers who said "money was all appropriated for the top in hopes that it would trickle down to the needy."
> 
> No reason to feel sorry for us as you are the confused one. Look where all the Bush tax cuts got us. If you think there has been spending on infrastructure, then why do we have so many bridges and roads in need of repair?
> So since Bush gave all those tax cuts where did that money go? Was in invested? Did it create jobs, definitely not.
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Sad but true. Thanks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> You know KPG, the more you try to explain your mistakes away, the more ridiculous you sound. You didn't say, in my opinion, you stated it as fact, and the worst thing about it is you were using false information to try to make someone else look stupid, just another put down. It's not bad enough to act like a know it all, you have to put some one else down. in the process. You appear to take great pleasure in putting other down. You don't just make a comment voicing your opinion, you have to degrade the person too. Then when we give it back to you , you play poor me. Apologize to you, you have so much to apologize before that ever happens. You started this with me, and you innocent approach now will not work.
> It is probably good that you think you have much more class, education, experience, and knowledge than I do cause you are the only one that thinks that about you. What was said about bragging about yourself,
> that it means insecurity. You must be very, very insecure for all the bragging you do. That bragging about yourself is a quality I didn't foster in my daughters, and I am so glad.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Gosh, I must have missed somewhere on here where you were made the Thread God of the day with super powers :roll: :lol:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What's this? Fact coming from NASA? Any comments from solo or joey?



sumpleby said:


> OK, I will:
> 
> http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/earth20130613.html#.Uqi-eeIvsf4
> *Warm Ocean Causing Most Antarctic Ice Shelf Mass Loss*


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh dear. Could that indicate some mistakes from KPG? If so, shouldn't there be an apology and thank you for the information coming? Cold day in hell, so to speak.



sumpleby said:


> Polar bears don't live in Antartica... And they aren't happy in the north, where they do live, due to loss of habitat (due to warming).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I rest my case. Hell stays toasty.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I didn't say the Polar bears lived in Antartica and you just said you are an independent as compared to me referring to LWNs, so not sure why you are making these false arguments.
> 
> Whatever  oh, yes, and were they DO live they are thriving.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Did you want to say something yourself solo? Sorry if I'm missing something.



soloweygirl said:


> I wonder why a fertilizer company is required to "self report" rather than have a monthly inspection of the plant. If the government is limiting the amount of fertilizer, then it should be part of their job to monitor the fertilizer companies, not have a self reporting business owner. If the government deems it so important, with obvious reasons, they should do their best to monitor those requirements. I'm tired of hearing the excuses of we don't have enough personnel or it just slipped through the cracks. If the government can make the regulations, then they should enforce said regulations without excuses.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I didn't know either. From context it appears to be a pimp, in the vernacular.



jelun2 said:


> *What is a Mack Daddy?*


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree Rocky. You are one of the very best.



rocky1991 said:


> I really do, thanks for that praise.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes they do. Global warming is now accepted scientific fact. Of course I assume there are still some dunces debating whether or not the earth is round, just to spout off about something .



rocky1991 said:


> We all know you can any amount of studies on the internet, I was hoping to read your study and compare it with others. But if you don't want to share your study, that's OK. However, don't a majority of scientists believe in global warming?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Then I guess you don't care if the information posted on this thread is right or wrong.
> 
> So I guess what I post is correct unless you can prove it wrong.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa, isn't this like trying to talk to the wall, only less interesting?



joeysomma said:


> So the site I posted had more information than yours. Yours says nothing about what happens if the insurance refuses to cover the Rx.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Duh?



joeysomma said:


> What is the ACA or Obamacare if it is not insurance? It is NOT healthcare.
> 
> Even if you think it is biased, does not make it wrong.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh great one (IHOM, 'in her own mind) please inform us mere mortals what "LWN" is. Thank you. (Assuming you deign to answer.)



knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh, no  guess you can only make assumptions and are a LWN after all. Toodles!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK. You can spell 'toodles.' And write it several times. Boring.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Here I go and will say for a third time, "Me too!"
> 
> Except I say and said, "Toodles."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope. The shrink couldn't take hearing that crap even at $200 per hour.



BrattyPatty said:


> KPG is projecting again, NJG. I guess her shrink dumped her knowing there is no cure for what she is.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

damemary said:


> You disgust me.


You'll get that, It's the "World Wide Web" not your personal e-mail account. Conform and Comply...like a good little soldier.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Wall Street Journal
By Karl Rove 
December 12, 2013

_
Democrats Face A Day Of Obamacare Reckoning_

Their votes for the law in 2010 are going to be very hard to defend in 2014.
When he was asked last week how much of a political liability ObamaCare will be for Senate Democrats in the midterms, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told Jeff Gillan of Las Vegas's KSNV, "I think it's going to be good for them."

Brave words, but the Affordable Care Act remains very unpopular. And the intensity of feeling is with its critics.

A Dec. 8 Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, for example, found 50% thought the health law was a bad idea43% strongly (7% not strongly). The survey reported 34% thought ObamaCare is a good idea, but only 27% felt so strongly (7% not strongly).

Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care.

Consider the predicament of four Democratic senators up next year who voted for ObamaCare and defended it as the president did. Alaska Sen. Mark Begich used to say, "If you got an insurance plan now, you like it, you keep it." Now he says: "Do I have issues with ObamaCare? Yes." Mr. Begich won in 2008 by 3,953 votes a week after his GOP opponent was convicted on corruption charges (later tossed out) in a state Mitt Romney carried by 14 points. No wonder he has issues with ObamaCare.

Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu has been elected by no more than 52% of the voters in three races against weak opponents. She used to say those "who like the coverage they already have will be able to keep their current plan." Now? She is out with an ad saying "I'm fixing it . . . and I've urged the president to fix it." Of the law itself, however, she admitted last week: "Yes, I would support it again." That's after a Nov. 12 Southern Media & Opinion Research poll found Louisianans opposed ObamaCare 59% to 34%.

North Carolina Sen. Kay Hagan used to say, "If you've got health insurance in our country, you keep it." Running in one of two states Mr. Obama lost in 2012 after winning in 2008, Ms. Hagan now sounds like she's a criminal investigator: "We need to figure out why this happened." Her Republican opponent will solve the mystery: "This happened" because of Kay Hagan's vote.

Then there's Sen. Mark Pryor, who once reassured Arkansans, "Are we gonna be able to stick with our plan? The answer is yes." Now Mr. Pryor fiercely criticizes the government's enrollment website as if it canceled millions of health plans. In a state Mr. Obama lost by 24 points, this may not help him escape responsibility for voting to pass the Affordable Care Act.

It's not just the seven Democratic Senate seats in red states Mitt Romney carried that are in danger because of ObamaCare. In 2010, four of the six Senate seats Republicans picked up were in states carried by Mr. Obama in 2008. Mr. Obama will be less popular in such purple states in 2014 than he was last Novemberand so will Democrats who have been passive, reliable votes for him.

So Democratic senators in purple states, like New Hampshire's Jeanne Shaheen, are at risk for having declared, as she did, "One of the things that I said as a requirement that I have for supporting a bill is that if you have health coverage that you like you should be able to keep that." Colorado Sen. Mark Udall will get intense blowback for mimicking Mr. Obama's pledge, "If you like your current plan, you can keep it." And Virginia Sen. Mark Warner can't escape having pledged: "I'm not going to support a health-care reform plan that's going to take away the health care you've got right now."

ObamaCare will also hurt Democratic congressmen attempting to become senators. Examples are Iowa's Bruce Braley, who asserted that ObamaCare would "allow Americans to maintain their choice of health insurance" and Michigan's Gary Peters, who said "If you're covered and you like your insurance, you can keep it."

A Dec. 8 Democratic Public Policy Polling survey found that 48% of Michiganders disapproved of ObamaCare while only 34% approved. Sixty-three percent thought its implementation unsuccessful. Mr. Peters is behind his GOP opponent, 40% to 42%.

These Democrats are now frantically proclaiming their independence on ObamaCare. But when it truly mattered, they were in lock step with the president. The law exists because congressional Democrats voted for it. While that vote is over, the political pain for these men and women has only begun.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It does have that big "DUH!" factor.......


damemary said:


> Nussa, isn't this like trying to talk to the wall, only less interesting?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh dear.......another post by another biased person.....he's just a little too Republican for me. Doesn't have the interest of all the people at heart...... That's what makes it a personal comment, not a factual article. And in my opinion biased against others.

Karl Christian Rove (born December 25, 1950) is an American Republican political consultant and policy advisor.[1] He was Senior Advisor and Deputy Chief of Staff during the George W. Bush administration until Rove's resignation on August 31, 2007. He has also headed the Office of Political Affairs, the Office of Public Liaison, and the White House Office of Strategic Initiatives. Since leaving the White House, Rove has worked as a political analyst and contributor for Fox News, Newsweek and The Wall Street Journal.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Wall Street Journal
> By Karl Rove
> December 12, 2013
> 
> ...


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Nussa said:


> It does have that big "DUH!" factor.......


You and the Dames have been around more than a year, there are more than 1300 topic on KP, a person can start their own topic, the rules for starting your own topic are VERY clear and fair, many like minded people will be more than happy to join your conversation. You get it don't you, if not I'll spell it out .. posters are free to come and go ... so for you to continue to post in a thread that you feel has the big DUH factor says more about you than anyone else.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I'll let you do that research yourself, but if given the opportunity, the numbers would increase - that option isn't available for the plants that have been shut down.
> 
> Put it into perspective...
> - when lead was deemed unsafe, it was phased out of gasoline but the refineries weren't closed and nor was gas taken off the market
> ...


So much for clean coal.
http://grist.org/climate-energy/worlds-cleanest-coal-fueled-power-plant-is-a-climate-bait-and-switch/


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once!
> 
> What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?


Why do you doubt that I have been to China? Do I know you? Do you know me?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here I go and will say for a third time, "Me too!"
> 
> Except I say and said, "Toodles."


Do you own a copy write for"Toddles"?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, as you stated, you are legally blind and cannot see much of anything, so I'll just go ahead and forgive you for your stupidity and inaccurate assessment of me. I understand things do not appear to you as they actually are.


Did you miss taking your meds again? You know what happens when you do that? You become surly. Remember being a good Christian you must refrain from name calling and b more like Jesus......WWJD.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Isn't it interesting that the Dems and Repubs have worked their way quietly to a budget compromise, and that Boehner says those for deficit reduction will support this compromise?Bit of a slap on the hand for the Teahaddists when the budget was such a public subject that we got the government shut-down.

I just hope this doesn't mean the Republican Party is rebuilding and improving itself. It would be much better for the 2014 and 2016 elections if the Dems could count on the Republican Party remaining as dysfunctional as it has been.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Isn't it interesting that the Dems and Repubs have worked their way quietly to a budget compromise, and that Boehner says those for deficit reduction will support this compromise?Bit of a slap on the hand for the Teahaddists when the budget was such a public subject that we got the government shut-down.

I just hope this doesn't mean the Republican Party is rebuilding and improving itself. It would be much better for the 2014 and 2016 elections if the Dems could count on the Republican Party remaining as dysfunctional as it has been.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ooops. Duplicate post.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, you've never been to China or Asia; exactly as I suspected. Your loss.


What? How could you suspect anything, are you clairvoyant?
Hearing voices again, take your meds!!!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope. Still don't work for you.


That's because you are ashamed of where you got the information. Those voices in you head telling you things. Those voices are wrong, therefore you are wrong.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Do you own a copy write for"Toddles"?


Nope - just correcting your incorrect spelling of the word you used repeating a word I used and spelled correctly.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Honey, child, you would first have to matter to me, to have any control or influence over me with your demands and words. If you didn't give a darn about me you wouldn't continue to read my every word and address me regularly or at all as you said long ago you ignore me.
> 
> Too bad you are not good for your word. Yet, I've forgiven you as has another your faults and sins.


I am an atheist, your forgiveness means nothing to me. I just keep responding to you because I hate to seen anybody suffer the way you do when they are off their meds. You need help, do you regularly talk to your spiritual leader or you psychiatrist?
I am sure if you believe in Christ you follow his tenets............LMAO


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wow, your world is full of fear!
> 
> I'm not afraid of anything but failing in the eyes of My Father and God PERIOD. Yet, he has saved me with his Grace, and I fear not for He is with me ALWAYS.


Dear if you actually are a believer in G-d, you certainly don't act accordingly. I don't think Jesus would be very happy with you, I think you need some time spent actually following what he taught. Pride goeth before the fall and you are full of pride and other BS.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - just correcting *you're* incorrect spelling of the word you used repeating a word I used and spelled correctly.


Thank you so much. I have been feeling very low lately. This was just what I needed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I am an atheist, your forgiveness means nothing to me. I just keep responding to you because I hate to seen anybody suffer the way you do when they are off their meds. You need help, do you regularly talk to your spiritual leader or you psychiatrist?
> I am sure if you believe in Christ you follow his tenets............LMAO


Per usual, you have shown you don't know much about any topic nor anything about me. I don't suffer nor do I suffer fools such as you. Keep on with your lies, you're good at them.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey, moron, just google China pollution and you will see pics of the Chinese wearing masks because the air quality is so poor. Runwa models are shown wearing masks in China as well. It may have been decade since you have been there but it does not mean the problem does not exist.
> rocky, you are supposed to be impressed because it has been to China, didn't you know?


It'll take a lot more than a trip to China for her to impress me. Actually she does give the impression of be a human, but just barely,


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sometimes I find myself rooting for the cockroaches to take over the earth, then I realize they have.


LOL


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you so much. I have been feeling very low lately. This was just what I needed.


Thanks for pointing out my typo before I had a chance to review my words! What would I do without a perfect person watching my back?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Karl Rove stated: "Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care."
> 
> This is a true statement. It doesn't matter what political party he belongs to.
> 
> If you do not think it is true, prove what he said was a lie.


It's Karl Rove for crying out loud!! Can anyone be even more biased than Karl?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Dear if you actually are a believer in G-d, you certainly don't act accordingly. I don't think Jesus would be very happy with you, I think you need some time spent actually following what he taught. Pride goeth before the fall and you are full of pride and other BS.


Dear, since you are an atheist, you shouldn't bother stating or quoting what YOU think Jesus taught 'cause obviously you didn't take it to heart, understand it nor believe it. Not to mention you don't know what YOU are talking about.

I still forgive you. Deal with it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - just correcting your incorrect spelling of the word you used repeating a word I used and spelled correctly.


i kind of like "Toddles" better, creative, I think. Anyone can use "Toodles" but a misspelling is unique.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Per usual, you have shown you don't know much about any topic nor anything about me. I don't suffer nor do I suffer fools such as you. Keep on with your lies, you're good at them.


I can only know you by what you write. What you write is hateful, angry and not very Christian. You may not think you are suffering, nut your soul is probably suffering. It's going to earn you a lot of time in purgatory. May not even make it to heaven the way you deal with people. You make others suffer by the BS you spout.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Per usual, you have shown you don't know much about any topic nor anything about me. I don't suffer nor do I suffer fools such as you. Keep on with your lies, you're good at them.


What lies? Can you be more specific?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thanks for pointing out my typo before I had a chance to review my words! What would I do without a perfect person watching my back?


I thought only G-d is perfect.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Dear, since you are an atheist, you shouldn't bother stating or quoting what YOU think Jesus taught 'cause obviously you didn't take it to heart, understand it nor believe it. Not to mention you don't know what YOU are talking about.
> 
> I still forgive you. Deal with it.


I studied Jesus, he was a Jew, from the House of David. He was a rabbi, probably a hippie of his time. Surrounded himself with men, for what reason I can only surmise. He preached good ideas, none of which you have taken to heart. Don't live by his teachings do you? You think you do, but you are weak of spirit and fail. You can forgive me all you want, matters not to me, because I know I don't need anything from you. I do know what I am talking about, it's just that your head is so far up your arse, you have no clue.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Dear if you actually are a believer in G-d, you certainly don't act accordingly. I don't think Jesus would be very happy with you, I think you need some time spent actually following what he taught. Pride goeth before the fall and you are full of pride and other BS.


I think we're seeing a case of "professional" Christianity. That's the kind where people trumpet the fact they're amazingly good Christians, can quote the obscurest passages of the Bible to shut anyone up about anything they don't like, and go to church on Sundays to see who has the best hat. I'm tempted to say I don't think Jesus would very happy with KPG and some her other good Christian buddies, too. However, I am probably underestimating Jesus' forgiveness and inclusiveness.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thanks for pointing out my typo before I had a chance to review my words! What would I do without a perfect person watching my back?


My pleasure. I know how much you like to find imperfection.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you so much. I have been feeling very low lately. This was just what I needed.


I particularly like the improper use of "you're" when the word "your" was required. Using bold lettering was a nice little cherry on top of KPG's grammatical error. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :XD: :XD:


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I particularly like the improper use of "you're" when the word "your" was required. Using bold lettering was a nice little cherry on top of KPG's grammatical error. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :XD: :XD:


and I like the "nut your soul" at the top of the page :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I studied Jesus, he was a Jew, from the House of David. He was a rabbi, probably a hippie of his time. Surrounded himself with men, for what reason I can only surmise. He preached good ideas, none of which you have taken to heart. Don't live by his teachings do you? You think you do, but you are weak of spirit and fail. You can forgive me all you want, matters not to me, because I know I don't need anything from you. I do know what I am talking about, it's just that your head is so far up your arse, you have no clue.


Jesus probably surrounded himself with men because it was a cultural norm.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> and I like the "nut your soul" at the top of the page :lol:


Yes, typos from all sorts of people around here can be fun. I wish I had made the one you quote. I think we should try to enjoy them. There are too few occassions for a little chuckle in this world.:-D


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> They are required to self report because there isn't enough money to employ enough people to go around and inspect to make sure the children are doing what they are suppose to do. Republicans want less regulation and want government to get out of the way. You would think the plant owners would have given some thought to the safety of its employees and the community and maybe a little less thought to the money in their pockets.


I said I was tired of hearing the excuse of the government not having enough people to enforce their regulations and here you are giving that same excuse. It's a tired old excuse that equates to not being held accountable for their actions.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> We do share this earth. So far it's the only planet we live on, and we do have to take care of it.


The point was that the fish could have been moved to another location without harming them. They were doing nothing for the area, i.e. eating algae to keep it balanced, etc., so it was not necessary that they remain there. By keeping the fish there, the result was very fertile land was left to dry out and become useless, thus ruining many businesses and completely destroying a crop producing area.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> My pleasure. I know how much you like to find imperfection.


I don't waste my time pointing out spelling and other grammatical mistakes folks (including me) make on KP. I addressed Rocky's question to me about a word she misspelled and used after I first used it. But, of course, you know that already.

There are entire threads on KP dedicated to spelling and grammatical errors (or at least the titles indicate same)[I don't waste my time reading those threads either]; perhaps _your_ assistance would be of use on those threads.

Unless, of course, you aren't interested in helping anyone or making a pertinent or relevant point on a thread topic and are instead only interested in being ugly on purpose.

Whatever floats _your_ boat; the world is _yours_ to conquer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Just like the Chinese, where their cities are full of coal waste and debris, so you can't go outside, have to wear a mask if you do and do not under any l sell them all the coal they want and allow them to continue to pollute the earth's atmosphere.


China's air quality is not only the result of coal. They have lax regulations on many industries. If you want to blame is all on coal, without looking at the bigger picture, so be it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> and I like the "nut your soul" at the top of the page :lol:


Touche! :-D I didn't want to mention it but loved that too!

I stay have a bride to buy; wonder if a money order will do?

Cash seems, so, I don't know, crass.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > I have an idea. I know, but listen anyway. Why don't you leave the thread, then you won't have to "put up with her" and we won't have to put up with you. It's a win-win for everyone.[/
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

For me, the Duh! factor, was "Get off my back." I don't have to believe your posts and you don't have to believe anything I may find and post. So stop trying to cram yours down my throat, day after day, just because I won't agree with it. I don't now, nor will I ever be forced to believe something I feel is bogus. So stop harping on me......That's what my Duh! moment was about....So GOMB!


galinipper said:


> You and the Dames have been around more than a year, there are more than 1300 topic on KP, a person can start their own topic, the rules for starting your own topic are VERY clear and fair, many like minded people will be more than happy to join your conversation. You get it don't you, if not I'll spell it out .. posters are free to come and go ... so for you to continue to post in a thread that you feel has the big DUH factor says more about you than anyone else.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Those are the kind of Christians that are scary... I go to church to learn about the Lord....I'm certainly not going to take the word of a self proclaimed saint. That usually turns out to be a cult....


MaidInBedlam said:


> I think we're seeing a case of "professional" Christianity. That's the kind where people trumpet the fact they're amazingly good Christians, can quote the obscurest passages of the Bible to shut anyone up about anything they don't like, and go to church on Sundays to see who has the best hat. I'm tempted to say I don't think Jesus would very happy with KPG and some her other good Christian buddies, too. However, I am probably underestimating Jesus' forgiveness and inclusiveness.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Check out the Washington Post
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/things-you-need-to-know-about-the-affordable-care-act-and-prescription-drugs--but-probably-dont/2013/12/09/c00054c4-5eba-11e3-95c2-13623eb2b0e1_story.html


This is a very basic view of the Rx plans. Each plan is required to cover 1 drug in every category. Too bad if your drug is not covered. Different plans equal different charges for the same drug. Which could mean the patient has to buy a higher value plan than they want or can afford just to get their current drugs. Patient might have to go on another drug first, despite the fact that their current drug is working for them. If it is proven and documented by their physician that the drug doesn't work then they might be able to get the drug they already use and like. Sounds wonderful, NOT.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> What? How could you suspect anything, are you clairvoyant?
> Hearing voices again, take your meds!!!


Or a hearty serving of brandy-laced fruitcake. That might calm your nerves.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Are you perhaps referring to the snail darter? Yes, there were posters all over CA's central valley denouncing this environmental act.


Sorry, Jokim, I don't remember the name of the fish. I just remember it was small and didn't have to remain where it was. We are most likely referring to the same thing.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> **********************************
> Evil and corruption do exist in all parts of the world, but I still believe it to be a minority of people. Some people are also foolish and some occasionally make bad decisions that can have serious consequences. Businesses are just legal entities - they are owned and operated by people - people don't suddenly become ogres just because they've walked thru the doors of a business.
> 
> What about all of the plants and factories that have never had an explosion? What about all the businesses that follow safety procedures? What about all of the business that regularly donate money and services to their community? What about the businesses that provide scholarships and bursuries to students?
> ...


WCK, you make some very good points. It seems to be all or nothing for them with everything. There doesn't seem to be any middle ground. They would rather close down an industry then admit otherwise.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> We have similar horror stories here. There are a group of people trying to push for a by-law that would require a community review and permit to have ANY trees removed on private property. Of course this would have to be paid for by property taxes. And I somehow doubt they would be willing to pay for damages if a tree fell on my house or car


I doubt they would pay for injuries to a person that was on your property either.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Only an idiot would choose to take a biased site's post as Gospel.....You can believe whatever you want.....It's a free country, and I can believe what I want. So get over it. I know this won't stop your posts to me....I know you both tend to beat that dead horse to a pulp....So, do what you feel you have to do. But it just makes you both look more stupid. :roll:


Nussa, don't get your knickers all twisted now. Joey just asked what you considered an unbiased site. Just name a site you think is unbiased, it's not complicated. If you can't answer then that's another matter. It leads one to conclude that your sites are just as biased as you claim Joey's are. We can also conclude they are not truthful as well.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> That's the point......it was your post and I disagreed with it.......I don't have to provide you with a correct one......You'll just have to keep looking till you can find one that is done in a non biased way.....which I might add......is neigh onto impossible on either side.....that's why you shouldn't post things that can not be verified honestly. It's just that your opinion, isn't mine. All I've done is to tell you I don't believe what you posted, I sure didn't know it was going to drive you crazy trying to convince me it's true.....It really isn't that important to me who believes your post and who doesn't. My life does not revolve around it. I think you need to move on to a new subject.... :thumbup:


Why are you afraid to answer Joey's question? Why the backpedaling? It is important to you up to the point where you have to prove yourself, then you dismiss the whole thing and go for a change of subject.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You're being very silly. If self-reporting was replaced by investigations requiring outside agencies, most of us would end up working as inspectors and funds for little things like national defense would melt away. It isn't possible to enforce all rules and regulations governing businesses by outside inspection. We would be burried in red tape to such a great extent that nothing else would get done. Why do you think self-reporting exists? It certainly isn't intended to guarantee any real regulation of negative business practices.


I am not talking about regulations covering ALL businesses. I am just speaking of fertilizer companies. DHS deems what they have on hand can produce bombs and therefore our safety is at issue. DHS should be the one that provides the inspectors necessary to make sure these fertilizer companies are complying with all the regulations. They should not be self reporting to the government.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Nussa said:


> For me, the Duh! factor, was "Get off my back." I don't have to believe your posts and you don't have to believe anything I may find and post. So stop trying to cram yours down my throat, day after day, just because I won't agree with it. I don't now, nor will I ever be forced to believe something I feel is bogus. So stop harping on me......That's what my Duh! moment was about....So GOMB!


Duh..used to express annoyance at banality,obviousness, or stupidity.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I said I was tired of hearing the excuse of the government not having enough people to enforce their regulations and here you are giving that same excuse. It's a tired old excuse that equates to not being held accountable for their actions.


I think you're off base on this one. If self-reporting didn't have a signifIcant impact on the cost of enforcing laws, rules and regulations businesses must abide by, IT WOULDN'T EXIST. Self-reporting isn't the invention of the current Administration. It's been around for a long time. It is, in fact, a form of deregulation. Maybe that's why it sounds like a "tired old excuse that equates to not being held accountable for their actions" because it is, indeed, a tired old reason for leaving businesses to regulate themselves. It doesn't work, yet there are still a lot of people who want to see fewer regulations imposed on business.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't waste my time pointing out spelling and other grammatical mistakes folks (including me) make on KP. I addressed Rocky's question to me about a word she misspelled and used after I first used it. But, of course, you know that already.
> 
> There are entire threads on KP dedicated to spelling and grammatical errors (or at least the titles indicate same)[I don't waste my time reading those threads either]; perhaps _your_ assistance would be of use on those threads.
> 
> ...





knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - just correcting your incorrect spelling of the word you used repeating a word I used and spelled correctly.


This is only 2 pages back
Really? My, my, how you love to lie.
There is a cure for that, KPG. Go see your shrink.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I find cut & pasting someone's blog insulting. What possible worth is that to our discussion? I personally doubt the things she has claimed in her life's work.


You don't discuss, you insult. Since your arrival to the thread and that of Bratty Patty's, the whole discussion has taken a nose dive. It happens every time. You come on the thread, insult a few, then slobber over the words of your friends, then more insults aimed at those you dislike, then you leave. Predictable.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Dear, since you are an atheist, you shouldn't bother stating or quoting what YOU think Jesus taught 'cause obviously you didn't take it to heart, understand it nor believe it. Not to mention you don't know what YOU are talking about.
> 
> I still forgive you. Deal with it.


There goes that God complex again. Such an immense ego and such a little brain.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Global warming is an accepted scientific fact. Keep your fingers in your ears until you realize the water is rising and the sky is falling.


Just because you drink the koolaid, doesn't mean it's happening. There is more evidence against global warming, than for it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't discuss, you insult. Since your arrival to the thread and that of Bratty Patty's, the whole discussion has taken a nose dive. It happens every time. You come on the thread, insult a few, then slobber over the words of your friends, then more insults aimed at those you dislike, then you leave. Predictable.


Just as your snideness is predictable, solo.
She who has not sinned.....


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> All you need to do is check , which I did, what type of site it came from to know it's biased. So, it's wrong.


When an article or column starts with a rather nasty ad hominem attack on Obama as the title, you know it's hopelessly biased.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Sometimes I find myself rooting for the cockroaches to take over the earth, then I realize they have.


Keep replying, you just make my point over and over again.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I take it you aren't even aware that your statement doesn't even make sense? Go back and read what I said, and then stay out of other peoples business....I'm sorry if poor Joey can't understand English....I know both you and she are just stubborn trouble makers...I'm just glad I don't have to deal with either of you unless I want to.......I'm sorry you're having a hard time with your buddy not being able to get the answer from me she wants.....please just try to get over it...... :thumbup:


soloweygirl said:


> Why are you afraid to answer Joey's question? Why the backpedaling? It is important to you up to the point where you have to prove yourself, then you dismiss the whole thing and go for a change of subject.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wow, your world is full of fear!
> 
> I'm not afraid of anything but failing in the eyes of My Father and God PERIOD. Yet, he has saved me with his Grace, and I fear not for He is with me ALWAYS.


You should be shaking in your shoes.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I am not talking about regulations covering ALL businesses. I am just speaking of fertilizer companies. DHS deems what they have on hand can produce bombs and therefore our safety is at issue. DHS should be the one that provides the inspectors necessary to make sure these fertilizer companies are complying with all the regulations. They should not be self reporting to the government.


Well, how convenient. Now you say you're only referring to fertilizer businesses. I suggest you think of some other businesses that are similarly dangerous, involve the use of substances that can be used to make bombs, whose products are easy for individuals to obtain and thus pose a safety issue for all of us. I can think of several categories of businesses this would be true for. Can you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just because you drink the koolaid, doesn't mean it's happening. There is more evidence against global warming, than for it.


Well, there's a term that's original.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Karl Rove stated: "Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care."
> 
> This is a true statement. It doesn't matter what political party he belongs to.
> 
> If you do not think it is true, prove what he said was a lie.


The Democrats couldn't have known any of that because they didn't read the bill before it was passed. They listened to Nancy Pelosi, being the good little soldiers they are. Many are completely surprised by what they are finding in the bill.

They can't deny that the Democrats are sticking together no matter what, whether right or wrong.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So what? What he said is still true!


Uh huh. Believe as you will, joey.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I can only know you by what you write. What you write is hateful, angry and not very Christian. You may not think you are suffering, nut your soul is probably suffering. It's going to earn you a lot of time in purgatory. May not even make it to heaven the way you deal with people. You make others suffer by the BS you spout.


She was in heaven once, rocky, but she got her evil arse kicked out and was sent back down to the fiery depths where she was spawned. Gotta love Michael the Archangel!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats couldn't have known any of that because they didn't read the bill before it was passed. They listened to Nancy Pelosi, being the good little soldiers they are. Many are completely surprised by what they are finding in the bill.
> 
> They can't deny that the Democrats are sticking together no matter what, whether right or wrong.


That's right, solowey. It's called a united front, unlike what's left of the republican party.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Delta smelt; a fish more important than people


I'm amazed how blithely you're prepared to see another species wiped off the face of the earth. Since the smelt is of no personal use to Joey, it should be of no importance to the world and all who inhabit it.

Hogwash.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I take it you aren't even aware that your statement doesn't even make sense? Go back and read what I said, and then stay out of other peoples business....I'm sorry if poor Joey can't understand English....I know both you and she are just stubborn trouble makers...I'm just glad I don't have to deal with either of you unless I want to.......I'm sorry you're having a hard time with your buddy not being able to get the answer from me she wants.....please just try to get over it...... :thumbup:


You are just avoiding the fact that your sites are just as biased as you claim Joey's are and don't know of an unbiased site. You are all hot air and no substance. FYI, this is a public forum where anyone signed up can read and reply. You don't like it, then don't post.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are just avoiding the fact that your sites are just as biased as you claim Joey's are and don't know of an unbiased site. You are all hot air and no substance. FYI, this is a public forum where anyone signed up can read and reply. You don't like it, then don't post.


Who is insulting now? Hmmm????


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, how convenient. Now you say you're only referring to fertilizer businesses. I suggest you think of some other businesses that are similarly dangerous, involve the use of substances that can be used to make bombs, whose products are easy for individuals to obtain and thus pose a safety issue for all of us. I can think of several categories of businesses this would be true for. Can you?


To jog your memory, you posted about the West, Tx fertilizer company. I responded speaking only about fertilizer companies and regulations. I never mentioned other businesses. You were the one that was generalizing and referred to all businesses and inspectors. Stay on topic, your little grey cells would appreciate it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Terrorists, Socialists, and Con Men Behind ObamaCare
> 
> _If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it
> 
> ...


Pig fodder


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> To jog your memory, you posted about the West, Tx fertilizer company. I responded speaking only about fertilizer companies and regulations. I never mentioned other businesses. You were the one that was generalizing and referred to all businesses and inspectors. Stay on topic, your little grey cells would appreciate it.


Oh, here comes the real solowey. Insulting and snide as ever.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> The Delta smelt; a fish more important than people
> 
> September 17, 2009
> 
> ...


Thanks Joey, that's the one. Wasn't it horrible what was done to good fertile land, the businesses that were thriving and the people that lived there just for a useless fish?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's right, solowey. It's called a united front, unlike what's left of the republican party.


On that we can agree.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm amazed how quick you blithely you're prepared to see another species wiped off the face of the earth. Since the smelt is of no personal use to Joey, it should be of no importance to the world and all who inhabit it.
> 
> Hogwash.


The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated. Instead, the solution was to let good fertile land go to waste. That land was useful to Joey and everyone else that ate the produce it produced.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> China's air quality is not only the result of coal. They have lax regulations on many industries. If you want to blame is all on coal, without looking at the bigger picture, so be it.


I understand that coal is not the only source of air pollution in China, but it is a major contributor.

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/10/21/2810581/air-pollution-shuts-chinese-city/ution,


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Touche! :-D I didn't want to mention it but loved that too!
> 
> I stay have a bride to buy; wonder if a money order will do?
> 
> Cash seems, so, I don't know, crass.


What does I stay have a bride to buy, mean? And yes you are crass.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> To one who lives in their own self importance, sorry to burst your bubble. This post was NOT directed to you.


I thought this was an open topic. I will refrain from commenting until I see that the comment is directed directly at me. I am important to me.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This is a very basic view of the Rx plans. Each plan is required to cover 1 drug in every category. Too bad if your drug is not covered. Different plans equal different charges for the same drug. Which could mean the patient has to buy a higher value plan than they want or can afford just to get their current drugs. Patient might have to go on another drug first, despite the fact that their current drug is working for them. If it is proven and documented by their physician that the drug doesn't work then they might be able to get the drug they already use and like. Sounds wonderful, NOT.


I guess that perpetual black cloud that follows you around can find problems with almost any program. Hasn't anyone explained to you that there is no such thing as a perfect program. There are kinks in any start up. Give it a chance. Or are you afraid if given a chance it will succeed?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

IMPORTANT TO READ!


Democrats Face a Day of ObamaCare Reckoning

Their votes for the law in 2010 are going to be very hard to defend in 2014. 

By 
Karl Rove 

Dec. 11, 2013 7:07 p.m. ET

When he was asked last week how much of a political liability ObamaCare will be for Senate Democrats in the midterms, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told Jeff Gillan of Las Vegas's KSNV, "I think it's going to be good for them." 

Brave words, but the Affordable Care Act remains very unpopular. And the intensity of feeling is with its critics. 

A Dec. 8 Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, for example, found 50% thought the health law was a bad idea43% strongly (7% not strongly). The survey reported 34% thought ObamaCare is a good idea, but only 27% felt so strongly (7% not strongly). 

Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care. 

Consider the predicament of four Democratic senators up next year who voted for ObamaCare and defended it as the president did. Alaska Sen. Mark Begich used to say, "If you got an insurance plan now, you like it, you keep it." Now he says: "Do I have issues with ObamaCare? Yes." Mr. Begich won in 2008 by 3,953 votes a week after his GOP opponent was convicted on corruption charges (later tossed out) in a state Mitt Romney carried by 14 points. No wonder he has issues with ObamaCare. 

Louisiana Sen. Mary Landrieu has been elected by no more than 52% of the voters in three races against weak opponents. She used to say those "who like the coverage they already have will be able to keep their current plan." Now? She is out with an ad saying "I'm fixing it . . . and I've urged the president to fix it." Of the law itself, however, she admitted last week: "Yes, I would support it again." That's after a Nov. 12 Southern Media & Opinion Research poll found Louisianans opposed ObamaCare 59% to 34%.

North Carolina Sen. Kay Hagan used to say, "If you've got health insurance in our country, you keep it." Running in one of two states Mr. Obama lost in 2012 after winning in 2008, Ms. Hagan now sounds like she's a criminal investigator: "We need to figure out why this happened." Her Republican opponent will solve the mystery: "This happened" because of Kay Hagan's vote. 

Then there's Sen. Mark Pryor, who once reassured Arkansans, "Are we gonna be able to stick with our plan? The answer is yes." Now Mr. Pryor fiercely criticizes the government's enrollment website as if it canceled millions of health plans. In a state Mr. Obama lost by 24 points, this may not help him escape responsibility for voting to pass the Affordable Care Act. 

It's not just the seven Democratic Senate seats in red states Mitt Romney carried that are in danger because of ObamaCare. In 2010, four of the six Senate seats Republicans picked up were in states carried by Mr. Obama in 2008. Mr. Obama will be less popular in such purple states in 2014 than he was last Novemberand so will Democrats who have been passive, reliable votes for him.

So Democratic senators in purple states, like New Hampshire's Jeanne Shaheen, are at risk for having declared, as she did, "One of the things that I said as a requirement that I have for supporting a bill is that if you have health coverage that you like you should be able to keep that." Colorado Sen. Mark Udall will get intense blowback for mimicking Mr. Obama's pledge, "If you like your current plan, you can keep it." And Virginia Sen. Mark Warner can't escape having pledged: "I'm not going to support a health-care reform plan that's going to take away the health care you've got right now." 

ObamaCare will also hurt Democratic congressmen attempting to become senators. Examples are Iowa's Bruce Braley, who asserted that ObamaCare would "allow Americans to maintain their choice of health insurance" and Michigan's Gary Peters, who said "If you're covered and you like your insurance, you can keep it." 

A Dec. 8 Democratic Public Policy Polling survey found that 48% of Michiganders disapproved of ObamaCare while only 34% approved. Sixty-three percent thought its implementation unsuccessful. Mr. Peters is behind his GOP opponent, 40% to 42%.

These Democrats are now frantically proclaiming their independence on ObamaCare. But when it truly mattered, they were in lock step with the president. The law exists because congressional Democrats voted for it. While that vote is over, the political pain for these men and women has only begun.

Mr. Rove, a former deputy chief of staff to President George W. Bush, helped organize the political action committee American Crossroads.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is to bad that saving this small fish cost so many people their livelihood. I wonder if any of the people that were for the fish, had a choice of eating that fish or starve, would say "save the fish?"
> 
> I think the Snail Darter stopped the Tennessee Valley Authority from building a dam, many years ago.


Nothing compared to the BP oil spill that ruined many wildlife preserves, took away people's livelyhoods, and killed many food fish on which people made their living. You support BP, but are upset about a few smelt?
Every living thing is part of our eco system.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> To jog your memory, you posted about the West, Tx fertilizer company. I responded speaking only about fertilizer companies and regulations. I never mentioned other businesses. You were the one that was generalizing and referred to all businesses and inspectors. Stay on topic, your little grey cells would appreciate it.


Specific topics can easily lead to general topics that may well be worth considering. Since you were able to follow what I said from the specific to the general, I assume you could also reply in kind. Word games may be fun, but I wasn't playing one with you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated. Instead, the solution was to let good fertile land go to waste. That land was useful to Joey and everyone else that ate the produce it produced.


Eventually these people will figure out that polluting our waters with pesticides and fertilizers is a harmful thing not only to the fish and plantlife that inhabit it , but to humans who depend on clean ground water.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If it ain't one thing, MIB, it's another....


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!
> 
> ...


Gee thanks, LL. It has only been posted a few times already. It's still pig fodder no matter how many times you post it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated. Instead, the solution was to let good fertile land go to waste. That land was useful to Joey and everyone else that ate the produce it produced.


Joey's article was from 2009; since then a solution of sorts has been found: dig two channels to bring water in and raise the level back up, and move the pumps away from the spot in the delta the fish favor.
A solution to these sorts of dilemmas can often be found, but the rightie response in this case ("keep on pumping" ) would have been disastrous. Only about 30K of those so-called "useless" fish were left when the pumping ceased--in the three or four years it took to come up with a fix they would have disappeared altogether if the pumping had continued.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Nussa wrote:
I take it you aren't even aware that your statement doesn't even make sense? Go back and read what I said, and then stay out of other peoples business....I'm sorry if poor Joey can't understand English....I know both you and she are just stubborn trouble makers...I'm just glad I don't have to deal with either of you unless I want to.......I'm sorry you're having a hard time with your buddy not being able to get the answer from me she wants.....please just try to get over it...... :thumbup:



soloweygirl said:


> You are just avoiding the fact that your sites are just as biased as you claim Joey's are and don't know of an unbiased site. You are all hot air and no substance. FYI, this is a public forum where anyone signed up can read and reply. You don't like it, then don't post.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh dear......more misinformation being shoveled out by joeysomma. 
Here is part of what's on the site joeysomma posted:

(But this Big Lie wasnt some off-the-cuff remark; it was the brainchild of a slick, socialist public relations firm called the Herndon Alliancewhose ultimate goal is a socialist utopia where the State is God.)

This is what the Herndon Alliance is:

(The Herndon Alliance is a nationwide non-partisan coalition of more than 200 minority, faith, labor, advocacy, business, and healthcare provider organizations.

For too long others have divided Americans through fear, instead of uniting them through hope and the unmistakable fact that Americans, when called upon, can do whatever it takes to get the job done.

The Herndon Alliance is expanding the base of people supporting affordable healthcare for all, and increasing the breadth and depth of voices working and speaking out for the provisions of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010.)

Doesn't sound to me like a group who's goal is to have a socialist utopia where the State is God? 
Just a bunch of scared Republican's in another one of their lunatic fringe panics.

(Lunatic fringe is a term used to characterize members of a political or social movement as extremists with eccentric or fanatical views.)



joeysomma said:


> The Terrorists, Socialists, and Con Men Behind ObamaCare
> 
> _If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it
> 
> ...


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated.


No useful purpose that we know of. Know of. Moving the fish could very well result in harm to that local ecosystem. And moving the fish to another area could and probably would do harm to the new environment. We all know of the many instances where introducing an animal or plant to another systems caused just such harm. Sometimes it is years before we discover what the change or harm is. It can even result, gasp, in great inconvenience for us--witness the vanilla industry. Hand pollinating is such a b-tch. We aren't always so smart when we take it upon ourselves to decide what is or isn't necessary. The planet can survive just fine without us--but we can't survive without our only environment. Which argues that we should be careful with it.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated. Instead, the solution was to let good fertile land go to waste. That land was useful to Joey and everyone else that ate the produce it produced.


First thing that popped up for me when I read this was "Isn't this the mind frame of the 'white man' when they decided to move out the Native Americans a hundred or so years ago"?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> **********************************
> Evil and corruption do exist in all parts of the world, but I still believe it to be a minority of people. Some people are also foolish and some occasionally make bad decisions that can have serious consequences. Businesses are just legal entities - they are owned and operated by people - people don't suddenly become ogres just because they've walked thru the doors of a business.
> 
> What about all of the plants and factories that have never had an explosion? What about all the businesses that follow safety procedures? What about all of the business that regularly donate money and services to their community? What about the businesses that provide scholarships and bursuries to students?
> ...


I don't think anyone is demonizing all businesses. Only those that are greedy. Only those that if not regulated by the government prove that they can not be trusted like, West Texas. The West Texas Fertilizer plant put themselves above their employees and the whole community. They needed more regulations. Anyone who lives near a plant like that should be highly involved in the number of inspections etc that go on. I would not trust any business with my life. That is what the West Texas employees and the community did.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

So Harry Reid's staffers are exempt. Now all obamacultists that think they have health insurance have an 80% chance of not being covered.



Congressional staffers were warned Wednesday not to rely on information provided by the ObamaCare exchange website, in an email alert informing them they might not be enrolled for coverage even if they technically signed up. 




The "very important" message, sent to Capitol Hill officials Wednesday afternoon, is the latest sign that the government has concerns about the reliability of the system. Despite improvements in the basic operation of the exchange websites, and increased enrollment, there are lingering concerns about whether those signing up will actually be covered on Jan. 1. 

"Please DO NOT ASSUME you are covered unless you have seen the Confirmation Letter from the Disbursing Office!" the email to staffers said. 

The email urged staffers who have signed up via the DC Health Link -- the health care exchange for the District of Columbia -- to double check with the office that they're enrolled. 

"Do NOT rely on your 'My Account' page or other correspondence from DCHL," the message said. 

The message reminded them they haven't enrolled and "will not have health insurance next year" unless they get a confirmation letter. 

In light of the concerns, the email said staffers would have until Dec. 16 to notify the Disbursing Office if they were not confirmed, in order to get an extension. 

Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius defended the system during testimony Wednesday before a House committee. Sebelius spoke directly to the performance of HealthCare.gov, the site run by the federal government, and not DC Health Link, which is run by D.C. officials. 

"HealthCare.gov is working faster, responding more quickly, and we're able to handle larger volumes of concurrent users," Sebelius said. 

But the patchwork of exchange sites has led to a patchwork of different problems. 

In D.C., congressional lawmakers and staffers have been raising concerns for weeks about DC Health Link. 

The problems prompted the House chief administrative officer last Thursday to write the Office of Personnel Management urging them to take "immediate steps" to make sure lawmakers and staff can enroll. 

Chief Administrative Officer Dan Strodel described "significant problems" that were "preventing Members and staff in Washington D.C. and in district offices from enrolling in a healthcare plan via the DC Health Link website." 

Congressional officials are currently enrolled in the Federal Employees Health Benefits Program. Even for those who are unable to sign up for a new plan by Jan. 1 -- when coverage under the ObamaCare exchanges begins -- they will be able to stay covered under the FEHB until the end of January. 

While the health care overhaul requires everyone to purchase insurance starting in 2014, congressional officials and staffers are in a special class in that they're largely required to do so through the exchanges.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Life is grand.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I particularly like the improper use of "you're" when the word "your" was required. Using bold lettering was a nice little cherry on top of KPG's grammatical error. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Okay you say the site I used was biased, I'll agree it says what I believe. What sites are unbiased? Then I will look for one of them to get unbiased news, I have no idea what site is unbiased. I will not know unless you tell me.





joeysomma said:


> My final comment on this subject. Your definition of an unbiased site is actually biased to your way of thinking. Therefore there will never be an unbiased site.





joeysomma said:


> Are you unwilling to believe the truth because someone who you do not like says it? I wonder who you consider unbiased? What sources do you think are unbiased?


As human beings, it's simply not possible to eliminate ALL bias. But even given that fact, there are still some important things to be aware of and concerned about, and important steps to take because for some things -- especially knowing what happened in the world that impacts us -- is best accomplished when bias is absent to the greatest extent possible.

The first thing is to become a wise and wary CONSUMER of news. Here are a few tips:

1. Learn to recognize bias -- loaded words, inflammatory statements, appeals to known biases of the intended audience (aka: dog whistles in some circles).

2. Look for appeals to or premises based on know biases. For example, the base of the Republican party is reliably anti-Obama, so nearly anything aimed t this audience is likely to include a clear anti-Obama slant as well.

3. Look for independent and separate validation of important claims -- mainstream news sources, especially those considered more reliably unbiased, other first-hand witnesses, and so forth. Other biased sources picking up the same story isn't external validation.

4. Enjoy your biased sources if you must, but recognize that you may not be getting the truth, if that matters to you (and it should because if you don't ask the right questions, you can't get the right answers). But to inform yourself, rely on eitehr unbiased sources or those stories that have been confirmed in unbiased media.

How to recognize bias when it appears: 
If you're reading an opinion piece, for example, it's probably going to be biased. That doesn't mean the information in it -- especially any underlying facts or premises -- is wrong, necessarily, just that it may be wrong or at least slanted because of the bias. Other parts of the piece -- any analysis of what the underlying facts are, for example -- may also be accurate, but are still opinion by definition, so should be recognized as such.

An example of all this: Let's say someone's personal blog reports on and analyzes numbers from a recent political poll, complete with demographic breakdowns for individual questions. If all that is reported clearly and without fudging anything -- nothing pertinent omitted either -- then at least that part of the article is accurate and can be believed (well, that's assuming the questions in the polls weren't slanted to help provide the kinds of responses the pollster or her client wanted. Let's assume they weren't).

Now, any analysis the piece that includes what is going to happen to the Democrats or Republicans as a result, or what they should do, or why the numbers are what they are (unless revealed by the questions themselves) is pure speculation, pure opinion, and may be very biased. BUT, if that analysis is done by a responsible, reasonably objective political scientist who isn't propagandizing for one side or the other, then it's far more credible, for both sides.

So again, you have to look at the whole thing and weigh it. Look for certain trip-words that would indicate a bias toward one side or the other (and again, ad hominem attacks on anyone are a certain tip off).

There are a number of traditional -- "mainstream" -- news organizations which are typically considered relatively unbased. This may depend a little bit on the reporter(s) involved, and it doesn't usually apply to columnists who are paid to write their personal opinions (although, again, any underlying facts or premises should be 100% accurate).

Those mainstream sources that have been considered reliable include the New York Times, The Washington Post, the Christian Science Monitor, Reuters, UPI, AP and I like McClatchy because they'll take on the power structure if they want (IOW, have some cajones). BUT you have to be sure you're reading a news item (or a well-sourced opinion piece), not an Op Ed column.

Now, as I've been writing this it has hit me in the face that the one reason Fox News is the laughingstock -- literally -- of contemporary "journalism" is that whether they're reporting news or publishing/broadcasting opinions, their "facts" aren't necessarily true and accurate at all. In fact, usually they aren't. But Fox CAN be relied upon to promote and bolster the Republican brand and agenda wit pretty much everything it does. All of that is demonstrably true, day in and day out. This is not "journalism." It's not what American citizens can rely on for information on which to base THEIR opinions and make judicious decisions about exercising their civic duty (voting, etc.). It's PROPAGANDA, and it's insulting and contemptuous of the viewer, and unAmerican and contemptuous of our Constitution with its First Amendment protections for a "free press."

Anyway, a NYT columnist who keeps springing to mind as I write this is Paul Krugman, a Keynesian economist and economics professor at Princeton. He's brilliant, very articulate, and simply. not. ever. wrong. His columns are always based on good, solid factual information (often from truly independent and unbiased research organizations), and his predictions always hit their mark. (Do you know how rare that is for an economist?) The reason I bring it up is that IMO his is a column that is credible. You can believe the facts he presents, and whether you like his opinions about them or not, they're usually pretty darned credible. Not unbiased, but pretty credible based on his track records.

I hope this is helpful.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Kinda like guys drinking beer together and watching the game now?



MaidInBedlam said:


> Jesus probably surrounded himself with men because it was a cultural norm.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Touche! :-D I didn't want to mention it but loved that too!
> 
> I stay have a bride to buy; wonder if a money order will do?
> *************************************************
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Karl Rove lied when he said "I love you Mom." The man is a lying weasel. Therefore, if you believe what he says is true, I say you believe lies.....fervently. Delusional.



joeysomma said:


> So what? What he said is still true!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once!
> 
> What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/06/schoolchildren-air-pollution-shanghai-eastern-china

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-09/shanghai-reports-pm2-5-pollutants-13-times-who-recommended-level.html

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/12/09/3030071/shanghai-photos-pollution/

http://mashable.com/2013/12/06/shanghai-pollution-photos/#gallery/shangai-smog/52a8a348b589e4402c000d3d

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/06/us-china-pollution-idUSBRE9B508X20131206

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2013-12-08/shanghai-reports-pm2-dot-5-pollutants-13-times-who-recommended-level

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-12-06/shanghais-record-pollution-creeping-inside-buildings


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since you miss me so much, I'm back....until it's too boring for me again.



soloweygirl said:


> You don't discuss, you insult. Since your arrival to the thread and that of Bratty Patty's, the whole discussion has taken a nose dive. It happens every time. You come on the thread, insult a few, then slobber over the words of your friends, then more insults aimed at those you dislike, then you leave. Predictable.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Liar.



soloweygirl said:


> Just because you drink the koolaid, doesn't mean it's happening. There is more evidence against global warming, than for it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.


What I don't understand is why so many rich republicans would spend millions to try to influence people to not get insurance. Put up phony web sites to drive people away. If it is so bad, just let it happen and it will go away. It is that empathy thing again, they just don't have it, and therefor people without insurance is not their problem. 
This could be another reason they have fought so hard to not let it happen.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So what? What he said is still true!


Being biased is far from being the truth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

People who understand the environment know that it is a complicated situation.

Throw out the pet that's grown too big out the door near the everglades and wait til you and new "Fluffy" meet your lovely fully grown python our for a walk.

Spray herbicides all over those ugly weeds, and you destroy the food source for migrating butterflies.

Not a study for simple thinkers. And it is all destroying the earth for mankind.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm amazed how blithely you're prepared to see another species wiped off the face of the earth. Since the smelt is of no personal use to Joey, it should be of no importance to the world and all who inhabit it.
> 
> Hogwash.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> What does I stay have a bride to buy, mean? And yes you are crass.


Male or lesbian? I'm trying to get the right pronoun. No answer from Cherf/KPG etc. Can you assist?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are important to many of us, Rocky.



rocky1991 said:


> I thought this was an open topic. I will refrain from commenting until I see that the comment is directed directly at me. I am important to me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe they are planning to move to Mars! Make my day. I'll even help to figure out how to clean up their mess.



BrattyPatty said:


> Nothing compared to the BP oil spill that ruined many wildlife preserves, took away people's livelyhoods, and killed many food fish on which people made their living. You support BP, but are upset about a few smelt?
> Every living thing is part of our eco system.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Delta smelt; a fish more important than people
> 
> September 17, 2009
> 
> ...


Write for us!

Launched in 2008, Examiner.com is a dynamic entertainment, news and lifestyle network that serves more than 20 million monthly readers across the U.S. and around the world. 
Just thought I'd check out this website. Not exactly what I expected, but I have to consider the source.

Real People. Real Knowledge.

Examiner.com is fully powered by Examiners, thousands of writers who are self-motivated independent contributors. Each Examiner is able to express through words and photos a deep expertise in a topic. Their knowledge is enhanced by a viewpoint unique to their experiences and oftentimes, their location.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wow, your world is full of fear!
> 
> I'm not afraid of anything but failing in the eyes of My Father and God PERIOD. Yet, he has saved me with his Grace, and I fear not for He is with me ALWAYS.


Then you should be fearful, because you have certainly failed. He is not with you, as proven by the way you talk to other people.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Haven't you noticed that they always play games when they can't answer?



MaidInBedlam said:


> Specific topics can easily lead to general topics that may well be worth considering. Since you were able to follow what I said from the specific to the general, I assume you could also reply in kind. Word games may be fun, but I wasn't playing one with you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats couldn't have known any of that because they didn't read the bill before it was passed. They listened to Nancy Pelosi, being the good little soldiers they are. Many are completely surprised by what they are finding in the bill.
> 
> They can't deny that the Democrats are sticking together no matter what, whether right or wrong.


Definitely not what the Republicans do. right? Just say NO to anything and everything Obama wants.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Calling Janeway....



Cindy S said:


> First thing that popped up for me when I read this was "Isn't this the mind frame of the 'white man' when they decided to move out the Native Americans a hundred or so years ago"?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thanks Joey, that's the one. Wasn't it horrible what was done to good fertile land, the businesses that were thriving and the people that lived there just for a useless fish?


Here's another viewpoint on the delta smelt.http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/fish/Delta_smelt/
Home > Species > Fish > Delta Smelt > Delta smelt

SAVING THE DELTA SMELT

The tiny delta smelt is one of the best indicators of environmental conditions in the San Francisco Bay-Delta, an ecologically important estuary that is a major hub for Californias water system  and an ecosystem that is now rapidly unraveling. The smeltdown in the Delta, as the extinction trajectory of delta smelt is known, has left the once-abundant species in critical condition due to record-high water diversions, pollutants, and harmful nonnative species that thrive in the degraded Delta habitat.

This smelts catastrophic decline is a warning that we may lose other native Delta fish that have fallen to alarmingly low levels as well, such as longfin smelt, salmon, and sturgeon. In fact, the delta smelt is only one of 12 of the original 29 indigenous Delta fish species that have been eliminated entirely from the area or that are threatened with extinction. An extinction risk analysis in 2006 warned that the Delta smelt could go extinct within 20 years.

In 2007, when too few smelt were found during surveys to even calculate fish numbers, it was clear that the species was nearing extinction. Because federal and state agencies are failing to address the ecological problems in the Delta  moving forward with plans for water diversions and storage projects that will increase threats and further degrade Delta habitat  the Center is working to ratchet up protections for this species. A Center petition spurred the California Fish and Game Commission to upgrade its state protection status from threatened to endangered; weve also sued the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to achieve uplisting on the federal level.

The Delta habitat for delta smelt is polluted with often-lethal concentrations of herbicides and pesticides discharged and transported from Californias Central Valley into the fishs estuary home. Toxic pulses of pesticides have been documented in the Delta during critical stages in fish development, and pesticides have been implicated in the recent collapse of the delta smelt population. The Center is challenging the Environmental Protection Agencys registration and authorization-for-use of 46 toxic pesticides in and upstream of habitats for San Francisco Bay Area endangered species, including the Delta smelt; we continue to monitor and oppose harmful chemical pesticide use in California through our Pesticides Reduction Campaign.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am posting information. Nothing says you have to believe it. If you don't like the information don't read it. There are a few people on this thread that appreciate the information. I am doing it for them.


I would wish that you posted information from a reliable scientific site, try reading what I found out about the Delta smelt.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The fish should have been moved to another area. Since they serve no useful purpose in that area, they could have been relocated. Instead, the solution was to let good fertile land go to waste. That land was useful to Joey and everyone else that ate the produce it produced.


Please
Home > Species > Fish > Delta Smelt > Delta smelt

SAVING THE DELTA SMELT

The tiny delta smelt is one of the best indicators of environmental conditions in the San Francisco Bay-Delta, an ecologically important estuary that is a major hub for Californias water system  and an ecosystem that is now rapidly unraveling. The smeltdown in the Delta, as the extinction trajectory of delta smelt is known, has left the once-abundant species in critical condition due to record-high water diversions, pollutants, and harmful nonnative species that thrive in the degraded Delta habitat.

This smelts catastrophic decline is a warning that we may lose other native Delta fish that have fallen to alarmingly low levels as well, such as longfin smelt, salmon, and sturgeon. In fact, the delta smelt is only one of 12 of the original 29 indigenous Delta fish species that have been eliminated entirely from the area or that are threatened with extinction. An extinction risk analysis in 2006 warned that the Delta smelt could go extinct within 20 years.

In 2007, when too few smelt were found during surveys to even calculate fish numbers, it was clear that the species was nearing extinction. Because federal and state agencies are failing to address the ecological problems in the Delta  moving forward with plans for water diversions and storage projects that will increase threats and further degrade Delta habitat  the Center is working to ratchet up protections for this species. A Center petition spurred the California Fish and Game Commission to upgrade its state protection status from threatened to endangered; weve also sued the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to achieve uplisting on the federal level.

The Delta habitat for delta smelt is polluted with often-lethal concentrations of herbicides and pesticides discharged and transported from Californias Central Valley into the fishs estuary home. Toxic pulses of pesticides have been documented in the Delta during critical stages in fish development, and pesticides have been implicated in the recent collapse of the delta smelt population. The Center is challenging the Environmental Protection Agencys registration and authorization-for-use of 46 toxic pesticides in and upstream of habitats for San Francisco Bay Area endangered species, including the Delta smelt; we continue to monitor and oppose harmful chemical pesticide use in California through our Pesticides Reduction Campaign.

read scientific information about the smelt;


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is to bad that saving this small fish cost so many people their livelihood. I wonder if any of the people that were for the fish, had a choice of eating that fish or starve, would say "save the fish?"
> 
> I think the Snail Darter stopped the Tennessee Valley Authority from building a dam, many years ago.


Corrupting our vital water sources is more important in the end. Without water there will be no crops to worry about. Keep contaminating our water and we are all dead.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> In case you didn't read, I gave no opinion one way or another. I just posted information.


Not particularly good information. Just one persons biased viewpoint.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!
> 
> ...


I have to wear high waders to read anything by Karl Rove.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wall Street Journal
> By Karl Rove
> December 12, 2013
> 
> ...


Didn't Karl Rove predict that Romney would win by a 2% margin? In other words don't put too much stock in what he says. I rest my case.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Karl Rove stated: "Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care."
> 
> This is a true statement. It doesn't matter what political party he belongs to.
> 
> If you do not think it is true, prove what he said was a lie.


Karl Rove said Romney would win by a 2% margin. Just shows how smart he is.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/06/schoolchildren-air-pollution-shanghai-eastern-china
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-09/shanghai-reports-pm2-5-pollutants-13-times-who-recommended-level.html
> 
> ...


The WSJ. 
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324094704579069983984013094
The BBC.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23236532
Al Jazeera. 
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/china-coal-project-risks-environmental-crisis-20131125101710278305.html

http://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.cfm?id=9751


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/dec/06/schoolchildren-air-pollution-shanghai-eastern-china
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-09/shanghai-reports-pm2-5-pollutants-13-times-who-recommended-level.html
> 
> ...


Do you really expect her to read all that factual information. Quite over her head. Good try though.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

damemary said:


> You are important to many of us, Rocky.


Thank you kindly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the INFORMATION.



rocky1991 said:


> Here's another viewpoint on the delta smelt.http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/fish/Delta_smelt/
> Home > Species > Fish > Delta Smelt > Delta smelt
> 
> SAVING THE DELTA SMELT
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I said I was tired of hearing the excuse of the government not having enough people to enforce their regulations and here you are giving that same excuse. It's a tired old excuse that equates to not being held accountable for their actions.


Sorry for the tired old excuse, but it is the truth. Republicans want government out of the way. Rick Perry is one of those republicans. Maybe the businesses should do what is necessary for every ones safety and then they wouldn't need to be checked on like children. They just have to get rid of all that greed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And keep the barf bucket handy.



rocky1991 said:


> I have to wear high waders to read anything by Karl Rove.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> If it ain't one thing, MIB, it's another....


You are right on, BP. Even though I am a senior citizen, people's ignorance can still amaze me, and my brain is still in really gpod shape.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> China's air quality is not only the result of coal. They have lax regulations on many industries. If you want to blame is all on coal, without looking at the bigger picture, so be it.


Lax regulations!!!!!!!! OMG you think they need more regulations?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Someone was asking the name of the fish. I provided the name of the fish. Then the website so they knew that it really was the name of the fish. Nothing else.
> 
> I am not a biologist. So I know nothing about the fish or its environment. The only thing I do know is that a lot of people lost their livelihood because of that fish.


A lot more people will lose a lot more if we fail to manage our resources. Manage the fish properly and the water we remain safe for the rest of us to use.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Touche! :-D I didn't want to mention it but loved that too!
> 
> I stay have a bride to buy; wonder if a money order will do?
> 
> Cash seems, so, I don't know, crass.


I stay have a bride to buy. What do you mean by that?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So what? What he said is still true!


And Romney is president?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Eventually these people will figure out that polluting our waters with pesticides and fertilizers is a harmful thing not only to the fish and plantlife that inhabit it , but to humans who depend on clean ground water.


Sometime before it's too late some of these folks who deride saving some little fishies will realize that saving those little fishies is part of saving a much greater ecosystem that many people depend on. Maybe. If not, they'll be standing before the Pearly Gates trying to justify their lack of understanding.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> So Harry Reid's staffers are exempt. Now all obamacultists that think they have health insurance have an 80% chance of not being covered.


I wonder how many who actually signed up will pay by the deadline. Even IF they receive a confirmation of having insurance, no one does until the premium has been paid.

BTW: Has even 1,000,000 enrollees who want insurance and will pay even signed up yet? The magic # is 7,000,000.

Obamacare is a failure and a disaster of a law.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Okay, this is a good example one can use to determine bias. First of all, we ALL know that Karl Rove is invested in one party and certain outcomes for that party, so it's likely to be quite biased. However, as a political strategist, he is credible. So let's see what he's got to say, weighing it carefully.



Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!
> 
> ...


Well, I have information to the contrary -- that people are liking Obamacare. It seems to depend on the questions asked and the pollster asking them (what sort of demographic mix is used, among perhaps other things), so WE DON'T KNOW if this is suitably accurate and factual or not. And frankly Republican pollsters tend to be far more optimistic than Reality happens to be. (Does anyone remember how convinced the Romney campaign was -- until the very last minutes -- that he would win??) So I'd like to see the questions themselves or better yet, the entire poll. Is there a link to the raw poll results??



> Congressional Democrats will defend voting for ObamaCare by saying everything will turn out OK eventually (the White House line) or attack its many shortcomings. *But either they didn't know the law would raise premiums, hike deductibles, cost families their coverage, reduce hours for part-time workers and stymie job creation for small businessall defects that critics repeatedly warned aboutor they didn't care. *


The bold sentence is for the most part flat wrong. Undeniably. It's called propaganda, in fact. Those claims are unsupported by actual facts, unsupported or contradicted by mainstream (unbiased) independent sources.

So, given the fact that his premise -- his "premise" is the argument he's basing his argument on -- is seriously flawed, his analysis WILL be seriously flawed as well.

The rest of the article goes on to quote several Democrats running for re-election to the senate, and offer an analysis of ech one's political vulnerability based on their support of the ACA, which Rove claims is so incredibly unpopular that anyone who supported it may not last through the next election.

That remains to be seen. First, as I mentioned, the unpopularity of the ACA that Rove claims is highly questionable, and second, it's almost an entire year until the next election, a lifetime. If things continue apace, he may well be right. But I doubt that will happen. The website is already fixed and word of mouth will continue to spread about how people are being helped by the ACA. Texas legislators, for example, are already under fire to accept the Medicaid expansion dollars for their state. (I posted about that recently, I'm pretty sure.)

--------------------

Anyway, Rove's piece is interesting. I'm glad to have read it. But it's NOT (necessarily) the gospel truth (esp. since he's been known to lie as well). That's a small look at how to deconstruct something to ward off unnecessary bias.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever been to China? I doubt it. I have and guess what? I didn't see any coal waste or debris and didn't even wear a mask - not once!
> 
> What Liberal site did you get that dumb info from?


Is Google a liberal site offering dumb info? Here are some images from Google:

https://www.google.com/search?q=china+air+pollution&client=firefox-a&hs=yxw&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zUuqUqCiMIePkAfJtIDgBg&ved=0CDcQsAQ&biw=1234&bih=495


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nothing compared to the BP oil spill that ruined many wildlife preserves, took away people's livelyhoods, and killed many food fish on which people made their living. You support BP, but are upset about a few smelt?
> Every living thing is part of our eco system.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. *The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.*


Well, we know that's what you want, but how exactly is that going to happen? What will happen next, and next, and next, to make it die on the vine?? Seriously, I can't see it -- so what am I missing?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> Calling Janeway....


LMAO damemary, my thought exactly, but I am less brave (no pun intended) than you!!!!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Well, we know that's what you want, but how exactly is that going to happen? What will happen next, and next, and next, to make it die on the vine?? Seriously, I can't see it -- so what am I missing?


A brain.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then, What is the purpose of the website? Then why are people needing to go the website to get insurance through an insurance company. Seems like a very expensive and redundant way to sign up for insurance. Since the website is not complete and is only about 75% accurate, everyone still needs to contact the insurance company and pay them to make sure they have coverage on January 1.
> 
> What a waste of our money!!!


What a stunning admission that all your opposition to Obamacare was based on absolutely no real understanding of it at all. Just kneejerk, reactionary opposition. Opposition for the sake of opposition.

The website was necessary so that ALL the various plans available in the various states -- where the states refused to put their own website up -- would be accumulated and the new insurance shoppers could see them all at once and make up their minds which one they wanted.

You know, I qualified for Medicare earlier this year. Figuring out what I wanted and needed and could afford in the way of supplemental insurance was a bit of a nightmare, even though the government provides some overview information about all the various plans. I was still inundated by tooooooo much garbage advertising trying to get me to sign up with them. I'd have loved one comprehensive website where I could explore and choose, without the distraction of any external advertising at all.

The website is functioning just fine. Plenty of people are having no problem whatsoever. Enrollments went over 1.2 million yesterday, and are clearly picking up steam.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This has nothing to do with the question I asked Nussa. I asked her for a source *she* considered unbiased? She was unable or refused to do so.


Really? Even though you said: *"I have no idea what site is unbiased. I will not know unless you tell me"?*


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Do you really expect her to read all that factual information. Quite over her head. Good try though.


No I really knew she wouldn't, just wanted her to know she was wrong again.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A brain.


She has a brain, but you have no answer to her question. So you cover up your ignorance with sarcasm. Give her an answer not a lame attempt at "humor".


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> The WSJ.
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324094704579069983984013094
> The BBC.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-23236532
> ...


Wow, from the BBC article:



> China free coal policy in the north 'cut lifespans'
> China's policy of giving free coal for heating to residents in the north has contributed to shaving 5.5 years off life expectancy there, a study says.
> 
> It says air pollution from burning coal in the area north of the Huai River, with a population of some 500m people, was 55% higher than in the south.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts wrote:
You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.

Ok statement made on 12/12/13. I take a few to mean 3 so the ACA should be dead by 01/02/14. Lets all remember this now. Someone as smart as KPG says she is should know what she is talking about.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> What a stunning admission that all your opposition to Obamacare was based on absolutely no real understanding of it at all. Just kneejerk, reactionary opposition. Opposition for the sake of opposition.
> 
> The website was necessary so that ALL the various plans available in the various states -- where the states refused to put their own website up -- would be accumulated and the new insurance shoppers could see them all at once and make up their minds which one they wanted.
> 
> ...


I agree Knitry. I have already changed supplement insurance plans last year and changed Part D this year, because of medication changes. When dealing with insurance companies you have to be on your toes.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Pleas provide website that prove these statements are untrue.


Sorry, not going to do it. For 3 reasons:

1. Most of the things I've posted in this thread have contradicted this line of propaganda.

2. The sentence was included as an example of a different point, not being advanced as an argument I was making anew, so I'm not going to be drawn in to defending that. (You probably don't even understand what I'm saying here.) The point was, in fact, that ROVE needs to provide support and documentation for HIS claims.

3. And an also ran reason: you and your friends don't provide support for your claims when asked, why should I bother to be the responsible one??


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A brain.


You know, as I've read several pages of responses this afternoon, I've been really offended by BOTH sides and the very personal insults that have been thrown back and forth. Very ugly, totally unnecessary, and it actually demeans all participants -- those giving and those receiving (no matter how much some "deserved" the condemnation).

So I've been trying to lift the discourse a bit, and certainly avoid personal insults.

Are you sure you want to be that ugly anyway?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> She has a brain, but you have no answer to her question. So you cover up your ignorance with sarcasm. Give her an answer not a lame attempt at "humor".


Thank you. I think you're right, that she has no answer for this.

My question was sincere, not mocking or insulting. I think sometimes people pick up thoughts and ideas from elsewhere and don't think them through. I'd genuinely like to know how people envision Obamacare failing completely, especially in he near term.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I wonder how many who actually signed up will pay by the deadline. Even IF they receive a confirmation of having insurance, no one does until the premium has been paid.
> 
> BTW: Has even 1,000,000 enrollees who want insurance and will pay even signed up yet? The magic # is 7,000,000.
> 
> Obamacare is a failure and a disaster of a law.


Obamacare enrollments continue to rise, and rise more quickly each week:
Just about 1.2 million people have gained health coverage through Obamacare, according to new federal data released Wednesday morning.
Approximately 365,000 of those people have purchased private insurance and 803,000 have been determined to be eligible for the public Medicaid program.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1261888/-Obamacare-enrollments-picking-up-steam#?detail=email


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you are either unable to or refuse to do so. I will not believe you.
> 
> And you are wrong. I DO provide websites.


Yes, you don't have to believe me. I said as much: I refuse because I've posted such stuff over and over. I refuse because you and others don't read the material any way. Mostly I refuse because that wasn't an argument I'm making right now, it was merely part of an article used for an example of other points.

And reason number 4: I'm not going to jump through hoops for you or anyone else. Go issue your petty emands to someone who cares.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

You know, it might behoove you to be not so quick to jump and call someone WRONG before you've actually read what they posted



joeysomma said:


> The Daily Kos has inaccurate information. Do they know more than Secretary Sibelius? *he testified today that 365,000 have selected a plan.* But she would not give any numbers on how many have actually paid. I heard that part of her testimony.


What is it you don't get about what I posted:



> Obamacare enrollments continue to rise, and rise more quickly each week:
> Just about 1.2 million people have gained health coverage through Obamacare, according to new federal data released Wednesday morning.
> *Approximately 365,000 of those people have purchased private insurance *and 803,000 have been determined to be eligible for the public Medicaid program.
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1261888/-Obamacare-enrollments-picking-up-steam#?detail=email


Looks like Kos is right on the money -- providing actually MORE info that you did. I find Kos one of those "biased (pro-Dem) but usually with accurate facts" websites. You might make a note.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> No useful purpose that we know of. Know of. Moving the fish could very well result in harm to that local ecosystem. And moving the fish to another area could and probably would do harm to the new environment. We all know of the many instances where introducing an animal or plant to another systems caused just such harm. Sometimes it is years before we discover what the change or harm is. It can even result, gasp, in great inconvenience for us--witness the vanilla industry. Hand pollinating is such a b-tch. We aren't always so smart when we take it upon ourselves to decide what is or isn't necessary. The planet can survive just fine without us--but we can't survive without our only environment. Which argues that we should be careful with it.


Exactly, Sumpleby. And let's not forget that all these so-called "useless" animals are part of the food chain, not just curiosities that can be moved willy nilly. Relocating the smelt (if it was ever possible) would have created a ripple effect among those animals that feed on them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The Daily Kos has inaccurate information. Do they know more than Secretary Sibelius? She testified today that 365,000 have selected a plan. But she would not give any numbers on how many have actually paid. I heard that part of her testimony.


_The Daily Kos_ is a joke for a source of civic information. Talk about bias!

As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.

So I was correct, not even 1,000,000 PAYING enrollees have even signed-up to date.

*If *the 365,000 who selected a plan DO PAY, then only 18% of those needed have joined and paid and there is what, approximately two-three weeks left to the final sign-up deadline?

Warning - warning - warning - failure - failure - failure.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/11/since-october-1-2-million-have-gained-obamacare-coverage/


knitpresentgifts said:


> _The Daily Kos_ is a joke for any information. Talk about bias!
> 
> As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.
> 
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

KPG, you want to read this article and tell me again the Daily Kos is a joke. This should make every one very angry. If you don't believe it look it up on your own.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1262005/-Teen-Kills-4-Judge-LITERALLY-Lets-Him-Off-Because-He-is-Rich?detail=email


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/12/11/since-october-1-2-million-have-gained-obamacare-coverage/


Just wondering why do you want healthcare for all to fail? Do you have any idea what to replace it with? Are you on Medicare? Do you like Medicare? Would you rather pay free market prices and let the insurance industry determine how much you will pay and what services you are entitled to? If you are not on Medicare now, would you want to be when you are old enough? I think Medicare works fairly well. That's probably what we all should have......single payer.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> _The Daily Kos_ is a joke for any information. Talk about bias!
> 
> As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.
> 
> ...


And KPG, are we suppose to believe you. Someone who thinks trickle down economics is a democratic idea and we all love it. Now that really tells me a lot about your intelligence, and should tell everyone beware.
The warning - failure - says more about you than the ACA.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> KPG, you want to read this article and tell me again the Daily Kos is a joke. This should make every one very angry. If you don't believe it look it up on your own.
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/11/1262005/-Teen-Kills-4-Judge-LITERALLY-Lets-Him-Off-Because-He-is-Rich?detail=email


Makes me angry. Did you hear what his defense attorney said of his defense?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.
> 
> Ok statement made on 12/12/13. I take a few to mean 3 so the ACA should be dead by 01/02/14. Lets all remember this now. Someone as smart as KPG says she is should know what she is talking about.


Will do, NJG. We've watched the GOP Doomsday clock get pushed further and further back over the months. First it was October 1 (launch day)--then November 30 (fix deadline)--now January 1st or 2nd, when the Republicans are praying that millions of sick and injured Americans suddenly discover that they don't have health care.

They never give up, do they?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> IMPORTANT TO READ!
> 
> ...


Thank you LL, for posting this excellent article. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> _The Daily Kos_ is a joke for a source of civic information. Talk about bias!
> 
> As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.
> 
> ...


You're kidding--right? Folks who want their coverage to start on January 1, 2014 do have to sign up in December--but open enrollment doesn't end until March 31, 2014.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> _The Daily Kos_ is a joke for a source of civic information. Talk about bias!
> 
> As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you, KPG! :lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Has the liberal thread gone out of business? Seems like they spend all their time here.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Why don't the homeless just get a job, fer cryin' out loud?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> _The Daily Kos_ is a joke for a source of civic information. Talk about bias!
> 
> As I stated, the estimates were that a minimum of 7,000,000 need to enroll for Obamacare to even function as written within the law. 2,000,000 of that 7,000,000 need to be paying for their coverage not just Medicaid recipients (free health care on the dime of the American taxpayer). Of course, anyone who qualifies for Medicaid rushed to sign up.
> 
> ...


What you're missing is that the 7,000,000 paying members (if that number is correct -- I'll assume for the moment it is), is for the longterm ability of the plan to pay for itself. It's not required for the short term in any way, shape or form. And in fact it would have been highly improbable that that many people could sign up in that short a period of time on ANY website, I'd think.

As for Daily Kos, no, it's usually pretty accurate. The OPINIONS are biased, naturally, since they are "opinions." But the facts usually are just fine.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Makes me angry. Did you hear what his defense attorney said of his defense?


Yes, and I think the people who lost loved ones should sue those parents for every penny they have, and hit them in the only place they understand, the pocketbook. Also did you look at his rehab place, the luxury he will be living in. After all we want him to live like he is accustomed to, don't we.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The fact that the budget deal that will probably pass the House later today doesn't include an extension of emergency unemployment insurance benefits doesn't mean that those benefits will never be restored, but it does effectively guarantee they will lapse at the end of the year because after the House approves the budget, it's going to leave town until January.

Getting Republicans to agree to extend emergency UI didn't always require leverage, but these days it does, and that means that without coupling the extension with another must-pass piece of legislation, UI faces grim prospects. Democrats have been counting on the need to pass the so-called "doc fix" (legislation preventing cuts to payments to Medicare doctors) as a vehicle for extending UI, but yesterday House Republicans added a partial "doc fix" to the budget package.

Under the legislation, the "doc fix" will last for three months, through March of 2014, so it doesn't completely remove it as a vehicle for unemployment insurance, but it does reduce the urgency for Republicans to move swiftly, because while Medicare doctors won't face any lapse in payments, the long-term unemployed will. It's always possible that Congress could move quickly in January despite the fact that Republicans have given themselves a "doc fix" cushion, but it's going to take a concerted effort from House and Senate Democrats as well as the Obama Administration to push action. (Meteor Blades had a good post on Wednesday about one approach for doing this.)

Given that we're already seeing how Medicare doctors and their patients are getting taken care of while the long-term unemployed are getting screwed, it's worth noting that how the "doc fix" will be paid for:

A proposed short-term "doc fix," meanwhile, would prevent a 20-percent pay cut to physicians by extending cuts to set to hit hospitals that serve primarily uninsured patients.

The reductions to so-called disproportionate share hospitals are currently scheduled to begin next year and last through 2022. Under the "doc fix" proposal, the cuts would begin in 2016 but last through 2023, raising about $4 billion.

So it's not just the unemployed who are getting screwed, it's also both the insured and uninsured people who go to the hospitals facing the cuts, some of which will close as a result. But if there's a silver lining, it's that the cuts won't actually go into effect until FY2016 instead of FY2015, so just like Congress could in theory undo the damage of cutting off emergency unemployment benefits, it could also undo the damage of screwing hospitals that serve the poor. Good news, eh?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/12/1262187/-Budget-includes-three-month-Medicare-doc-fix-despite-punting-on-emergency-unemployment-insurance


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Got this from Senator Jeff Merkley 




All five regulators, including the Federal Reserve, the Securities Exchange Commission, and the FDIC, approved a strong Volcker Rule firewall. Going forward, Wall Street banks will be unable to gamble like high-risk hedge funds -- the same sort of "swing for the fences" bets that crashed the economy and created both the Great Depression and the Great Recession.

Wall Street was well-regulated, we had decades of economic growth that served American families well, vastly expanding the middle class. But de-regulated Wall Street made reckless bets that brought down the entire economy, with American families losing their retirement savings, their living wage jobs, and their homes. This must never happen again!

Wall Street banks are not going to like these changes. Their big SuperPACs are going to be working overtime in 2014


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Well, we know that's what you want, but how exactly is that going to happen? What will happen next, and next, and next, to make it die on the vine?? Seriously, I can't see it -- so what am I missing?


The statement is in bold letters. That makes it true and means it will happen in a few moments. It's probably already happened while I was typing this...You have to read the subtext, as it were. ROTFLMAO.:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Has the liberal thread gone out of business? Seems like they spend all their time here.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you so much Knitry for explaining this so well. I obviously wasn't doing a thorough enough job, as Joey kept coming back at me, no matter how many times I told her I wasn't going to accept the info in the sites she posted because they were biased....
She just doesn't take defeat well.....


Knitry said:


> As human beings, it's simply not possible to eliminate ALL bias. But even given that fact, there are still some important things to be aware of and concerned about, and important steps to take because for some things -- especially knowing what happened in the world that impacts us -- is best accomplished when bias is absent to the greatest extent possible.
> 
> The first thing is to become a wise and wary CONSUMER of news. Here are a few tips:
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you are either unable to or refuse to do so. I will not believe you.
> 
> And you are wrong. I DO provide websites.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Says you!........Which pretty much means NOTHING!


knitpresentgifts said:


> I wonder how many who actually signed up will pay by the deadline. Even IF they receive a confirmation of having insurance, no one does until the premium has been paid.
> 
> BTW: Has even 1,000,000 enrollees who want insurance and will pay even signed up yet? The magic # is 7,000,000.
> 
> Obamacare is a failure and a disaster of a law.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the lesson on fact.



Knitry said:


> Okay, this is a good example one can use to determine bias. First of all, we ALL know that Karl Rove is invested in one party and certain outcomes for that party, so it's likely to be quite biased. However, as a political strategist, he is credible. So let's see what he's got to say, weighing it carefully.
> 
> The bold sentence is for the most part flat wrong. Undeniably. It's called propaganda, in fact. Those claims are unsupported by actual facts, unsupported or contradicted by mainstream (unbiased) independent sources.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Never wrong, according to him/she/it.



NJG said:


> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> You're off your rocker. The worst thing that can happen to ALL Americans, is that Obamacare is successful. Of course, that is another one of your fairy tales that will never become a reality. The ACA is nearly dead on the vine and has only a few weeks left to survive.
> 
> Ok statement made on 12/12/13. I take a few to mean 3 so the ACA should be dead by 01/02/14. Lets all remember this now. Someone as smart as KPG says she is should know what she is talking about.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I would like to interject a bit of holiday wonder into this hopelessly toxic forum.......

http://www.uptv.com/blog/uplifting-video-cloverton-leonard-cohen-hallelujah-song

I hope it gives you all a feeling of strength and hope & love.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> And KPG, are we suppose to believe you. Someone who thinks trickle down economics is a democratic idea and we all love it. Now that really tells me a lot about your intelligence, and should tell everyone beware.
> The warning - failure - says more about you than the ACA.


'Trickle down economics' should be working like gang busters because there is capital to spend, but in my opinion it is not because of Obamacare and too much governmental regulations. I have seen the graphs of the top 1% and most are probably true. But it should be the reason that the top 1% is getting richer and it is not to be mean to 'the worker'. It is because it make economic sense not to spend their money at a loss. If they would invest their money to create a new company, not only are they taking an risk as a start up, but they loose money due to the capital gains tax. They also could lose money because of the Obamacare policies of forcing them to provide government mandated and controlled health care insurance, but the money might not be available until the company starts to make a profit because all the funds available were used to start the company up. I am not saying that people should not get health insurance as part of their benefit package, but the thought of all the paperwork involved with Obamacare, increased regulations, increased taxes and so on might not make it worth it for some to start a company. So instead of reinvesting their money into the economy they sit on it until investing it will not be so expensive and potentially financially catastrophic. If you chose to make this into a moral decision rather than a financial decision that would be wrong in my opinion. Let's say you have saved $100,000 and wanted to open a yarn shop. Off the top 35% would be gone due to the capital gains tax. Then you need to buy stock, rent/buy a shop, furnishings, advertisement, property insurance, spends every waking moment with your start up, deal with the paperwork of government regulations and the potential additional burden of Obamacare. Seems to me that a person would find it more advantageous to keep their money in the stock market (because the Fed is printing money) and not go through the financial loss and aggravation to start a company.

There is absolutely no incentive to start a business or to grow the one you have. That is our reality of today. So maybe the rich are getting richer, but if the government would get out of their way and let them create jobs they could become richer (which they earned not stole), people would have jobs, non punitive taxes would be collected, money would stay in the community........


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> *Lie of the Year: 'If you like your health care plan, you can keep it'*
> 
> "If you like your health care plan, you can keep it," President Barack Obama said -- many times -- of his landmark new law.
> 
> ...


OMG  can't breathe . ROFLMBO . :XD: :XD: :XD: .

can someone (who isn't a Lib/Leftie) help me off the floor .

:XD: :XD: :XD: I'm laughing so hard I cannot get up!

How long has anyone who is not a Liberal/Leftie/Democrat been saying on this thread and Smoking/Obamacare that the ACA is flawed, a complete lie, isn't affordable, *drops* millions who previously HAD insurance they paid for, doesn't help much of anyone except increasing the Medicare and Medicaid enrollees, forces doctors to leave their practices or stop accepting insurance, the President LIED about the ACA, and that the ACA would FAIL? 

Just yesterday, Obama, again broke the law and is YET AGAIN campaigning for and allowing insurance companies waivers to 'fix' HIS problem named after him. A fix is not EVEN POSSIBLE.

:XD: :XD: :XD:

 FAILURE - FAILURE - FAILURE


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> 'Trickle down economics' should be working like gang busters because there is capital to spend, but in my opinion it is not because of Obamacare and too much governmental regulations.


Oh please. "Trickle down economics" was touted during Reagan's presidency. It was a resounding failure back then, too. So now Obamacare can time travel? I swear, the right will go to any lengths to to blame Obama for everything under the sun, but this is just ridiculous....


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG  can't breathe . ROFLMBO . :XD: :XD: :XD: .
> 
> can someone (who isn't a Lib/Leftie) help me off the floor .
> 
> ...


Here, I'm helping you up. I am disgusted with Bo and ACA. He needs to be impeached and ACA needs to GO...

FAILURE! YES!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Oh please. "Trickle down economics" was touted during Reagan's presidency. It was a resounding failure back then, too. So now Obamacare can time travel? I swear, the right will go to any lengths to to blame Obama for everything under the sun, but this is just ridiculous....


Oh, please. Trickle down Economics, "*was devised by Democrats* in the 1980s as a way to attack President Reagans economic policy combination of tax rate cuts and some relaxation of federal regulations. They needed a catchy, easy-to-remember zinger to fire at Reagan; a line that would keep their voting base angry.

Sneering that Reagans policies amounted to cutting taxes on the rich in hopes that some small amount of that money would eventually trickle down into the pockets of workers was perfect. It painted Reagan and other advocates of tax reduction as friends of the rich who would cruelly deprive the government of the money it needed to help the poor and middle class.

As a political slogan, it was a brilliant stroke.

*The trouble is that it has led vast numbers of people into a disastrously mistaken idea about the source of prosperity  that high taxes and a growing government is the way to increase it."*

(quote credited to George Leef - emphasis added)

Sounds like you are still 'buying' it yet don't even understand it was a slogan ONLY.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

I said, touted, not who "devised" or "named" it. In any , that's not the point--it predates Obamacare by 30 years. And it *never worked*.

As for deregulation--all that ever brings is trouble with a capital T. It led to the Great Depression and our more recent debacle.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp

http://www.howstuffworks.com/trickle-down-economics.htm

All attribute it to Reagan


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> I said, touted, not who "devised" or "named" it. In any , that's not the point--it predates Obamacare by 30 years. And it *never worked*.
> 
> As for deregulation--all that ever brings is trouble with a capital T. It led to the Great Depression and our more recent debacle.


You cannot be serious or that dumb. IT NEVER WORKED? :shock: (it worked perfectly on you!) "It" doesn't exist, "it" is nothing but words; *Democratic Party rhetoric*!

It was a SLOGAN to have the Dems get and stay angry at Reagan's tax cutting plan and to be used by Dems to repeat like parrots against him exactly as you are now doing.

Polly want a cracker along with your bowl of Koolaid?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You cannot be serious or that dumb. IT NEVER WORKED? :shock: It doesn't exist, it is nothing but words; *Democratic Party rhetoric*!
> 
> It was a SLOGAN to have the Dems get and stay angry at Reagan's tax cutting plan and to be used by Dems to repeat like parrots against him exactly as you are now doing.
> 
> Want a cracker along with your bowl of Koolaid?


I hate to tell you, but I believe your fear is true. They will tout Clinton's economy and fail to admit that it was started by Regan's economic policies.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Read this article:
> http://conservativebyte.com/2013/12/cant-keep-drugs-either-obamacare/#uXh0Xbl6EFR5slwI.99


it is a conservative website, no use reading it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I hate to tell you, but I believe your fear is true. They will tout Clinton's economy and fail to admit that it was started by Regan's economic policies.


They are drinking the Koolaid and eating the laced-with-rhetoric crackers just like they bought Obama's lies about the ACA.

Hate to tell them but there is no cure for stupidity so they are all out-of-luck.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Hey, LTL!

I just realized Obama has accomplished _something_ for which he was recently recognized.

Again, he was awarded with the BIGGEST LIAR of the YEAR!

Now, that, is something, isn't it? :-D


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG  can't breathe . ROFLMBO . :XD: :XD: :XD: .
> 
> can someone (who isn't a Lib/Leftie) help me off the floor .
> 
> ...


Have you noticed that the Republicans in congress have given up the fight against Obamacare? Some reps have said that parts of it will actually work. Why do you want to see it fail? Don't you want people to have healthcare coverage? Or do you want the insurance companies to dictate healthcare at their discretion?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> 'Trickle down economics' should be working like gang busters because there is capital to spend, but in my opinion it is not because of Obamacare and too much governmental regulations. I have seen the graphs of the top 1% and most are probably true. But it should be the reason that the top 1% is getting richer and it is not to be mean to 'the worker'. It is because it make economic sense not to spend their money at a loss. If they would invest their money to create a new company, not only are they taking an risk as a start up, but they loose money due to the capital gains tax. They also could lose money because of the Obamacare policies of forcing them to provide government mandated and controlled health care insurance, but the money might not be available until the company starts to make a profit because all the funds available were used to start the company up. I am not saying that people should not get health insurance as part of their benefit package, but the thought of all the paperwork involved with Obamacare, increased regulations, increased taxes and so on might not make it worth it for some to start a company. So instead of reinvesting their money into the economy they sit on it until investing it will not be so expensive and potentially financially catastrophic. If you chose to make this into a moral decision rather than a financial decision that would be wrong in my opinion. Let's say you have saved $100,000 and wanted to open a yarn shop. Off the top 35% would be gone due to the capital gains tax. Then you need to buy stock, rent/buy a shop, furnishings, advertisement, property insurance, spends every waking moment with your start up, deal with the paperwork of government regulations and the potential additional burden of Obamacare. Seems to me that a person would find it more advantageous to keep their money in the stock market (because the Fed is printing money) and not go through the financial loss and aggravation to start a company.
> 
> There is absolutely no incentive to start a business or to grow the one you have. That is our reality of today. So maybe the rich are getting richer, but if the government would get out of their way and let them create jobs they could become richer (which they earned not stole), people would have jobs, non punitive taxes would be collected, money would stay in the community........


So tell me, when Bush was president and we had your trickle down economics, why didn't the top 1% create jobs? The government got rid of regulations and got out of their way and they could have created jobs, but if I remember correctly, the economy crashed. They got lots of tax cuts and had plenty of extra money to spend. What did they do with it. As far as what I have heard, they did get richer, they did quite well in fact. 
As far as less regulations, the big banks have proven that they can not be trusted. Thank God the regulators have approved a strong Volcker rule so Wall Street banks will be unable to gamble like high-risk hedge funds and crash our economy again. Can't imagine where we would be if Bush had gotten our SS money into the stock market.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Can't believe Boehner grew a pair and stood up to the right wing groups-people that were not elected to office who should not be setting policy anyway. Wonder how long it will last and really wonder why it took him so long.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh boy.....KPG thinks she's got the upper hand again......so now she'll be more annoying than ever......But it won't make her less of a moron.....And it won't take long for someone to burst her psychotic bubble.......


knitpresentgifts said:


> You cannot be serious or that dumb. IT NEVER WORKED? :shock: (it worked perfectly on you!) "It" doesn't exist, "it" is nothing but words; *Democratic Party rhetoric*!
> 
> It was a SLOGAN to have the Dems get and stay angry at Reagan's tax cutting plan and to be used by Dems to repeat like parrots against him exactly as you are now doing.
> 
> Polly want a cracker along with your bowl of Koolaid?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Here, I'm helping you up. I am disgusted with Bo and ACA. He needs to be impeached and ACA needs to GO...
> 
> FAILURE! YES!


Why? Do you have good healthcare coverage? Why don't you want other people to have good healthcare coverage? No matter what, one way or the other we pay for everyone's healthcare. The insurance companies have not done such a good job taking care of their clients, premiums go up, people are dropped, they don't insure preexisting conditions, they don't cover certain procedures. I don't understand why you are so against healthcare for all Americans.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

NJG said:


> Can't believe Boehner grew a pair and stood up to the right wing groups-people that were not elected to office who should not be setting policy anyway. Wonder how long it will last and really wonder why it took him so long.


Not sure he grew a pair, maybe borrowed them from someone :shock:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, LTL!
> 
> I just realized Obama has accomplished _something_ for which he was recently recognized.
> 
> ...


Oh, come now KPG. That is your award and you know it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You cannot be serious or that dumb. IT NEVER WORKED? :shock: (it worked perfectly on you!) "It" doesn't exist, "it" is nothing but words; *Democratic Party rhetoric*!
> 
> It was a SLOGAN to have the Dems get and stay angry at Reagan's tax cutting plan and to be used by Dems to repeat like parrots against him exactly as you are now doing.
> 
> Polly want a cracker along with your bowl of Koolaid?


Unbelievably nasty. Have you read your bible today? You should have your soul scrubbed. You have swallowed Republican ideology hook, line and sinker, without any questioning. Critical thinking is not one of your strong points, either is being a Christian.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They are drinking the Koolaid and eating the laced-with-rhetoric crackers just like they bought Obama's lies about the ACA.
> 
> Hate to tell them but there is no cure for stupidity so they are all out-of-luck.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hey, LTL!
> 
> I just realized Obama has accomplished _something_ for which he was recently recognized.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is not "Health Care." Actual health care is between you and your doctor.
> 
> Obamacare is redistribution of wealth and government control.


Thank you! Yes!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is not "Health Care." Actual health care is between you and your doctor.
> 
> Obamacare is redistribution of wealth and government control.


The better and _only_ question is why doesn't Obama and the Democratic Party Congressmen want all Americans to have health insurance and care. Those nitwits are the ones responsible for canceling the insurance policies of millions of Americans with the near guarantee that millions more will lose their health insurance in 2014. Not to mention the rest of the problems the Dumbocrats created for our Nation.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


BTW: Thanks for helping me off the floor. Still smiling  well laughing. Might throw a party to celebrate the Liar-of-the-Year Award recently awarded to our President.

I love a good party!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Think about it.......if you are going to look up any political figure, or political statement, on any website, are you going to find it to be unbiased? I don't think so. At this point, the way politics are being used by politicians and their big money supporters, I don't feel I can believe anything that is printed on most sites. I prefer to wait until things, such as the ACA have been up and running more than 2 months, before I make a decision on whether or not I believe it is working. I like to see the outcome for myself. Not take as gospel, any particular website at this point. Can you understand that? I want to choose for myself. I don't want you or your websites to choose for me, what I should think. I'd say that is pretty clear, isn't it? 
I will watch the news like everyone else. I will follow how things are going in our government. And I will pray that both sides can come together for our country and do what's right for the people. I believe this has explained to you that no matter how many times you ask me what website I believe in, you'll know that answer is NONE!


joeysomma said:


> Are you unwilling to believe the truth because someone who you do not like says it?
> 
> I wonder who you consider unbiased? What sources do you think are unbiased?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, please. Trickle down Economics, "*was devised by Democrats* in the 1980s as a way to attack President Reagans economic policy combination of tax rate cuts and some relaxation of federal regulations. They needed a catchy, easy-to-remember zinger to fire at Reagan; a line that would keep their voting base angry.
> 
> Sneering that Reagans policies amounted to cutting taxes on the rich in hopes that some small amount of that money would eventually trickle down into the pockets of workers was perfect. It painted Reagan and other advocates of tax reduction as friends of the rich who would cruelly deprive the government of the money it needed to help the poor and middle class. That is what supply side and trickle down economics are.
> 
> ...


Well they try supply side economics. Will that "slogan" work for ya? It doesn't make any difference what you call it. It is tax cuts for the rich which is suppose to allow them to produce a greater supply of goods and services at a lower price to benefit the consumers. Of course, since the consumers wages have been stagnant for years, and people are out of work, and the minimum wage is too low to support one person, let alone a family those purchases are not being made, and since the rich have taken their tax cuts and moved them off shore anyway and not created any jobs, guess it doesn't matter does it. The main thing republicans want is for the people at the top to do ok. Just like making sure the doc fix for medicare was slipped into the new budget, but nothing has been done about unemployment insurance. Take care of those Drs, but the middle and low income worker, who cares.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh boy.....KPG thinks she's got the upper hand again......so now she'll be more annoying than ever......But it won't make her less of a moron.....And it won't take long for someone to burst her psychotic bubble.......


So true, Nussa. I think she's feeling especially jolly because no one picked up on her error yesterday (she claimed the final deadline to get health insurance was in 2-3 weeks). Really, such a happenstance must feel like a reprieve from the gods to her.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The better and _only_ question is why doesn't Obama and the Democratic Party Congressmen want all Americans to have health insurance and care. Those nitwits are the ones responsible for canceling the insurance policies of millions of Americans with the near guarantee that millions more will lose their health insurance in 2014. Not to mention the rest of the problems the Dumbocrats created for our Nation.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> BTW: Thanks for helping me off the floor. Still smiling  well laughing. Might throw a party to celebrate the Liar-of-the-Year Award recently awarded to our President.
> 
> I love a good party!


I LOVE a good party, too!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, rocky 1991, you will find that KPG only preaches her Christianity when she's loosing the argument. Then she falls back on her, "you all are big meanies and being bad Christians"...But right now she thinks she's bit the fat hog in the arse, so all her Christianity has flown out the window, but don't worry.....she will soon be singing the "You are being mean to me blues), soon enough. :thumbup: 
.......LOLenougha


rocky1991 said:


> Unbelievably nasty. Have you read your bible today? You should have your soul scrubbed. You have swallowed Republican ideology hook, line and sinker, without any questioning. Critical thinking is not one of your strong points, either is being a Christian.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Nussa. I think she's feeling especially jolly because no one picked up on her error yesterday (she claimed the final deadline to get health insurance was in 2-3 weeks). Really, such a happenstance must feel like a reprieve from the gods to her.


That fact that you cannot comprehend what I write and understand the facts in evidence doesn't make my words wrong.

The point of my entire post was about the PAYING enrollees as was the topic being discussed wherein the Obama Admin's deadline was Dec 31/Jan 1 as well.

Enjoy your misery which is always in season for you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> That fact that you cannot comprehend what I write and understand the facts in evidence doesn't make make my words wrong. Enjoy your misery.


Do you really want me to repost your exact words? I guarantee they will embarrass you.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Do you really want me to repost your exact words? I guarantee they will embarrass you.


Don't bother Shemal; everyone knows what I wrote as do I.

Nothing you can do affects me.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't bother Shemal; everyone knows what I wrote as do I.
> 
> Nothing you can do affects me.


It doesn't sound like you do remember--time for a little refresher.

KPG: If the 365,000 who selected a plan DO PAY, then only 18% of those needed have joined and paid and *there is what, approximately two-three weeks left to the final sign-up deadline? *


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Definitely not what the Republicans do. right? Just say NO to anything and everything Obama wants.


The Democrats voted for the bill. They should have read what was in the bill before passing a bill that would affect 6% our our economy. Had they done that, we wouldn't be in such a situation.

Your harping on what the Republicans do/don't do does not bother me. I am not a Republican and see just as much fault in that Party as you do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It doesn't sound like you do remember--time for a little refresher.
> 
> KPG: If the 365,000 who selected a plan DO PAY, then only 18% of those needed have joined and paid and there is what, approximately two-three weeks left to the final sign-up deadline?


I'm SOOOOO happy you continue to embarrass yourself in any and every attempt to defame and attack me.

THE ENTIRE CONTENT of my post and those I replied to in the discussion was about the PAYING ENROLLEES, the percentage of PAYING ENROLLEES and the SIGN-UP/PAY DEADLINE for same that was even part of the same sentence!

(I've highlighted in red  my exact words that you re-quoted yet don't understand and note you did not bother to requote the entire context of my post either.)

You never fail to quote anyone properly or twist everyone's words and take everything out of context.

Your posts are irrevelent, and you need to learn to comprehend what you read.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I hate to tell you, but I believe your fear is true. They will tout Clinton's economy and fail to admit that it was started by Regan's economic policies.


Not only was it a residual of Reagan's economy but Clinton was held accountable by a Republican congress. Remember Gingrich and 1994?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm SOOOOO happy you continue to embarrass yourself in any and ever attempt to defame and attack me.
> 
> THE ENTIRE CONTENT of my post and those I replied to in conversation was about the PAYING ENROLLEES, the percentage of PAYING ENROLLEES and the SIGN-UP/PAY DEADLINE for same.
> 
> ...


*Wiggle wiggle*--you are predictable!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The final sign-up is Dec 23, if the coverage is to start on Jan 1, 2014. The dead line of March 31, 2014 is to avoid the penalty to be paid with tax return for 2014.


We all know she is a complete and absolute idiot. I cannot believe I even read her post, I now remember what I don't miss by ignoring her posts.

Every editorial about the ACA deadlines and sign-up dates, Kathleen S, and Obama himself are all concerned about the Dec deadline and *who* is signing up and *paying*, which was part of my discussion with you about the testimony by KS in front of the Committee yesterday, but Susan is only interested in making herself look the fool she is.

At least susan does a good job of that! :-D


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We all know she is a complete and absolute idiot. I cannot believe I even read her post, I now remember what I don't miss by ignoring her posts.
> 
> Every editorial, Kathleen S, and Obama himself are all concerned about the Dec deadline, but Susan is only interested in making herself look the fool she is.


Wow--such name calling and abuse...always a sign that you're getting rattled.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder if anyone one on the liberal side is big enough to admit it when they are wrong.


Why would they? They will be rewarded with a trophy for being the biggest loser, the biggest liar or the biggest fool! They're not about to give that up since it is coming to them. (translation: entitled to them, after all, yet the irony is they earned it!)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why would they? They will be rewarded with a trophy for being the biggest loser, the biggest liar, or the biggest fool!


Nah--I think you have those categories locked up, KPG.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They are drinking the Koolaid and eating the laced-with-rhetoric crackers just like they bought Obama's lies about the ACA.
> 
> Hate to tell them but there is no cure for stupidity so they are all out-of-luck.


Another day and more changes to Obamacare. The deadline is extended again. The administration now wants insurance companies to cover people whether or not they have paid the premium, and want those that lost their insurance to still be covered as well until they get new coverage.

Apparently among the many pages of the ACA bill, the insurance companies have a bridge (bailout) written in the ACA that will protect them from losing money (they can thank their lobbyists). We will have to see if the insurance companies go along with the administration's latest strong arm tactics, I mean "wishes". That poses the question: will the doctors and hospitals will go along as well? This doesn't necessarily follow just because the insurance companies agree. Interesting times ahead for sure.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> BTW: Thanks for helping me off the floor. Still smiling  well laughing. Might throw a party to celebrate the Liar-of-the-Year Award recently awarded to our President.
> 
> I love a good party!


I hope he puts the award next to the Nobel Peace Prize on his mantel. They would certainly look great together.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I am certainly not in any type of misery.....Didn't you look at the wonderful site I posted on page 21? It was full of love and good cheer.....here it is. Take a listen.....it has nothing whatever to do with politics....you might find it refreshing.....

http://www.uptv.com/blog/uplifting-video-cloverton-leonard-cohen-hallelujah-song

Oops....I thought I'd post what you have under your posts... I'd suggest you practice what you preach. You wouldn't want people to think you were a hypocrite.

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16  For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16



knitpresentgifts said:


> That fact that you cannot comprehend what I write and understand the facts in evidence doesn't make my words wrong.
> 
> The point of my entire post was about the PAYING enrollees as was the topic being discussed wherein the Obama Admin's deadline was Dec 31/Jan 1 as well.
> 
> Enjoy your misery which is always in season for you.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I hope he puts the award next to the Nobel Peace Prize on his mantel. They would certainly look great together.


Nobel Peace Prize for NOTHING! He should be ashamed!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Think about it.......if you are going to look up any political figure, or political statement, on any website, are you going to find it to be unbiased? I don't think so. At this point, the way politics are being used by politicians and their big money supporters, I don't feel I can believe anything that is printed on most sites. I prefer to wait until things, such as the ACA have been up and running more than 2 months, before I make a decision on whether or not I believe it is working. I like to see the outcome for myself. Not take as gospel, any particular website at this point. Can you understand that? I want to choose for myself. I don't want you or your websites to choose for me, what I should think. I'd say that is pretty clear, isn't it?
> I will watch the news like everyone else. I will follow how things are going in our government. And I will pray that both sides can come together for our country and do what's right for the people. I believe this has explained to you that no matter how many times you ask me what website I believe in, you'll know that answer is NONE!


You could have saved yourself a whole lot of unnecessary squirming around in twisted knickers if you just stated that in the beginning.


----------



## loribelle (Sep 16, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, please. Trickle down Economics, "*was devised by Democrats* in the 1980s as a way to attack President Reagans economic policy combination of tax rate cuts and some relaxation of federal regulations. They needed a catchy, easy-to-remember zinger to fire at Reagan; a line that would keep their voting base angry.
> 
> Sneering that Reagans policies amounted to cutting taxes on the rich in hopes that some small amount of that money would eventually trickle down into the pockets of workers was perfect. It painted Reagan and other advocates of tax reduction as friends of the rich who would cruelly deprive the government of the money it needed to help the poor and middle class.
> 
> ...


OK, Ive watched everyone go back and forth at one another.

Now let me tell yall about those Reagan cuts. I was 16, my daddy had been hurt on the job. We were fighting Workers Comp at the time so daddy was getting Social Security Disability. While daddy was in the hospital recovering from yet another surgery, a letter comes from Social Security stating that daddy was fine and was able to go back to work and would not be receiving anymore benefits. Effective immediately. We were caught in the Reagan sweeps. No one had visited or talked to my daddy or his many doctors, someone just decided enough. So what do you do when you have nothing coming in? Not a lot. We were able to get foods stamps because I was the remaining child at home. My daddy was a hardworking man and this just about killed him. I did have him for 13 more years before he died at the age of 63  I was 29. Im still not over his death. I dont think I will ever.

So dont talk to me about how great Reagan was. He started this mess and it hasnt stopped yet.

Slogan my @@@


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

loribelle said:


> OK, Ive watched everyone go back and forth at one another.
> 
> Now let me tell yall about those Reagan cuts. I was 16, my daddy had been hurt on the job. We were fighting Workers Comp at the time so daddy was getting Social Security Disability. While daddy was in the hospital recovering from yet another surgery, a letter comes from Social Security stating that daddy was fine and was able to go back to work and would not be receiving anymore benefits. Effective immediately. We were caught in the Reagan sweeps. No one had visited or talked to my daddy or his many doctors, someone just decided enough. So what do you do when you have nothing coming in? Not a lot. We were able to get foods stamps because I was the remaining child at home. My daddy was a hardworking man and this just about killed him. I did have him for 13 more years before he died at the age of 63  I was 29. Im still not over his death. I dont think I will ever.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I did......But you seem to have a brain encased in rock, as no matter how many times I repeated that same statement, you kept coming back with the same idiotic post. It isn't my fault you're slow on the up take.....I thought I was pretty generous, considering you were stalking me over a stupid post, and were quite obviously not bright enough to understand the ONE post I kept repeating over and over. So, I'd say YOU could have saved yourself a whole lot of unnecessary squirming inside your twisted knickers, if you had only learned to read properly..... I mean, it was written in plain English... :roll:


soloweygirl said:


> You could have saved yourself a whole lot of unnecessary squirming around in twisted knickers if you just stated that in the beginning.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Not only was it a residual of Reagan's economy but Clinton was held accountable by a Republican congress. Remember Gingrich and 1994?


Ya I remember something about Gingrich. Wasn't there something about ethics violation and I believe there was something about a fine too. What was all that about?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

KPG was so excited, I think she peed her pants.....LOL.



knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG  can't breathe . ROFLMBO . :XD: :XD: :XD: .
> 
> can someone (who isn't a Lib/Leftie) help me off the floor .
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Ya I remember something about Gingrich. Wasn't there something about ethics violation and I believe there was something about a fine too. What was all that about?


Compared to what followed (Clinton, et al) Gingrich is a boy scout!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Compared to what followed (Clinton, et al) Gingrich is a boy scout!


Oh, come now, I don't want to have to put my boots on, but it is getting pretty deep.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

loribelle said:


> OK, Ive watched everyone go back and forth at one another.
> 
> Now let me tell yall about those Reagan cuts. I was 16, my daddy had been hurt on the job. We were fighting Workers Comp at the time so daddy was getting Social Security Disability. While daddy was in the hospital recovering from yet another surgery, a letter comes from Social Security stating that daddy was fine and was able to go back to work and would not be receiving anymore benefits. Effective immediately. We were caught in the Reagan sweeps. No one had visited or talked to my daddy or his many doctors, someone just decided enough. So what do you do when you have nothing coming in? Not a lot. We were able to get foods stamps because I was the remaining child at home. My daddy was a hardworking man and this just about killed him. I did have him for 13 more years before he died at the age of 63  I was 29. Im still not over his death. I dont think I will ever.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry about what happened to your dad, but Workers Comp. is a state regulated agency. When people were laid off during Reagan's term (my DH was one of them, after 18 yrs of employment), many were able to find jobs because the economy was booming. It's not that way now. There are no jobs. You cannot blame that on Bush, let alone on Reagan.


----------



## loribelle (Sep 16, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I'm sorry about what happened to your dad, but Workers Comp. is a state regulated agency. When people were laid off during Reagan's term (my DH was one of them, after 18 yrs of employment), many were able to find jobs because the economy was booming. It's not that way now. There are no jobs. You cannot blame that on Bush, let alone on Reagan.


Apparently you did not read what I wrote. My daddy was HURT ON THE JOB. He was NOT laid off, which Workers Comp has nothing to do with. Yes, it is state, but we were fighting for benefits from them. I didn't mention W's name anywhere.

Now listen, I'll slow it down for you --- Daddywaaaaas geeeeeting SSI durrrrrring thaaaaaaaaaat tiiiiiiime. SSI waaaaaaaaaaaaas stooooooooooooopped whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile Daddy waaaaaaaaaaaas iiiiiiiin theeeeeeeeee hosssssssspitaaaaaaaal reeeeeecoooooooveriiiiiiiing froooooom suuuuuuuurgerrrrrrry. Theeeeeee leeeeetterrrr saaaaaid thaaaaat Daddy waaaaaas aaaaaabllllllle tooooo gooooo baaaaaack tooooo woooooork. Heeeeeeeee coooould nooooooot woooooork beeeeeecaaaaause heeeee waaaaaaaas stiiiiiiiiiil iiiiiinjurrrrred.

Is that slow enough? You weren't in my shoes. You know nothing about my life and the hell we went through for almost a year. The only reason we could get some assistance was because I was under 18 and still in highschool. Without me, I don't know what daddy would have done.

You have no idea what it is like to be poor --- unable (*NOT DID NOT WANT TO WORK*) to work = $0; $0 incomes = really really poor.

Go back to your little Reagan statue and give praise. He was a horrible man with horrible ideas. I'm done here!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I did......But you seem to have a brain encased in rock, as no matter how many times I repeated that same statement, you kept coming back with the same idiotic post. It isn't my fault you're slow on the up take.....I thought I was pretty generous, considering you were stalking me over a stupid post, and were quite obviously not bright enough to understand the ONE post I kept repeating over and over. So, I'd say YOU could have saved yourself a whole lot of unnecessary squirming inside your twisted knickers, if you had only learned to read properly..... I mean, it was written in plain English... :roll:


Really? If that's what you want to believe now, okay.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I'm sorry about what happened to your dad, but Workers Comp. is a state regulated agency. When people were laid off during Reagan's term (my DH was one of them, after 18 yrs of employment), many were able to find jobs because the economy was booming. It's not that way now. There are no jobs. You cannot blame that on Bush, let alone on Reagan.


I can too blame that on Bush and I do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

loribelle said:


> Apparently you did not read what I wrote. My daddy was HURT ON THE JOB. He was NOT laid off, which Workers Comp has nothing to do with. Yes, it is state, but we were fighting for benefits from them. I didn't mention W's name anywhere.
> 
> You have no idea what it is like to be poor --- unable (*NOT DID NOT WANT TO WORK*) to work = $0; $0 incomes = really really poor.
> 
> Go back to your little Reagan statue and give praise. He was a horrible man with horrible ideas. I'm done here!


1) I'm sorry what happened to your dad, but it had nothing to do with the made-up rhetoric by the Dems of trickle-down economics which is what you correlated your Dad's problem to.

2) Workmen's Comp is EXACTLY and ONLY for compensation to an employed individual who was injured or suffered a loss while ON THE JOB, which is what you said happened. Workmen's Comp has little to do with SSDI or TDE yet you again attempted to place blame there. I assume your dad did receive Work's Comp, was entitled, but don't understand your connection placed on Reagan's shoulders as it is regulated by the state, (as Jokim suggested) not by any President.

3) No one, but you, was discussing Reagan's tax cuts, the discussion was the TDE theory; so not sure why you would introduce your opinion of SSDI under Reagan as its a different topic altogether. Did your dad expect to receive or did he receive both WC and SS Disability compensation? SS disability insurance pays only for a complete disability, not a short-term, partial or temporary injury and wouldn't be paid along with your dad also receiving Work's Comp benefits.

4) Either you are very confused or didn't properly explain the circumstances but your problems were not related to the notion of a named theory.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

loribelle said:


> Apparently you did not read what I wrote. My daddy was HURT ON THE JOB. He was NOT laid off, which Workers Comp has nothing to do with. Yes, it is state, but we were fighting for benefits from them. I didn't mention W's name anywhere.
> 
> Now listen, I'll slow it down for you --- Daddywaaaaas geeeeeting SSI durrrrrring thaaaaaaaaaat tiiiiiiime. SSI waaaaaaaaaaaaas stooooooooooooopped whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile Daddy waaaaaaaaaaaas iiiiiiiin theeeeeeeeee hosssssssspitaaaaaaaal reeeeeecoooooooveriiiiiiiing froooooom suuuuuuuurgerrrrrrry. Theeeeeee leeeeetterrrr saaaaaid thaaaaat Daddy waaaaaas aaaaaabllllllle tooooo gooooo baaaaaack tooooo woooooork. Heeeeeeeee coooould nooooooot woooooork beeeeeecaaaaause heeeee waaaaaaaas stiiiiiiiiiil iiiiiinjurrrrred.
> 
> ...


I'll try not to react emotionally. It serves no purpose. You know nothing about my background, nor my economic circumstances, so please, refrain from judging me. I have been poorer than you ever will be but I never thought of myself as a victim nor felt sorry for my condition.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Gingrich had a plan and he followed through with it. He did resign because of the ethics violation. Something the liberal politicians would never think of doing now, no matter how many times they are caught in a lie.
> 
> If you remember Nixon resigned because he lied. Obama would never think of resigning no matter how many lies he tells. Nixon was more of a MAN than Obama could ever think of being.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I'm sorry what happened to your dad, but it had nothing to do with the made-up rhetoric by the Dems of trickle-down economics which is what you correlated your Dad's problem to.
> 
> 2) Workmen's Comp is EXACTLY and ONLY for compensation to an employed individual who was injured or suffered a loss while ON THE JOB, which is what you said happened. Workmen's Comp has little to do with SSDI or TDE yet you again attempted to place blame there. I assume your dad did receive Work's Comp, was entitled, but don't understand your connection placed on Reagan's shoulders as it is regulated by the state, (as Jokim suggested) not by any President.
> 
> ...


You broke it down point-by-point very well, KPG! :thumbup: Kudos :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Nobel Peace Prize for NOTHING! He should be ashamed!


 :thumbup: He has sewn more discourse and polarized our country more than any other person or issue, has ever done, in the last 80 years. Where's the peace?


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I'm sorry what happened to your dad, but it had nothing to do with the made-up rhetoric by the Dems of trickle-down economics which is what you correlated your Dad's problem to.
> 
> 2) Workmen's Comp is EXACTLY and ONLY for compensation to an employed individual who was injured or suffered a loss while ON THE JOB, which is what you said happened. Workmen's Comp has little to do with SSDI or TDE yet you again attempted to place blame there. I assume your dad did receive Work's Comp, was entitled, but don't understand your connection placed on Reagan's shoulders as it is regulated by the state, (as Jokim suggested) not by any President.
> 
> ...


Your Exactly Right KPG, all Inc's pay for Workers Comp Ins. before the first person goes on payroll. If an accident should happen the paper work is started, takes about 2 weeks to collect if paperwork is in order.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is not "Health Care." Actual health care is between you and your doctor.
> 
> Obamacare is redistribution of wealth and government control.


No matter what kind of insurance we have, there are people who do not have insurance and those people will use the emergency room for their care. Emergency room medical care is the most expensive form of healthcare. Therefore the hospitals charge those who do have insurance more money to make up for the deficit. So we all pay more those people who are not insured. Is it your wish that those uninsured people do not seek medical care and just die to save you money? What form of care do you want those uninsured people to have?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is not "Health Care." Actual health care is between you and your doctor.
> 
> Obamacare is redistribution of wealth and government control.


Actually we have already had a redistribution of wealth for the middle class to the wealthy,the 1%. I am glad that you are in the 1%, but not everyone is.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


and you are the Queen of STUPID. also LL.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The better and _only_ question is why doesn't Obama and the Democratic Party Congressmen want all Americans to have health insurance and care. Those nitwits are the ones responsible for canceling the insurance policies of millions of Americans with the near guarantee that millions more will lose their health insurance in 2014. Not to mention the rest of the problems the Dumbocrats created for our Nation.


Can you write a sentence without being insulting? Good Christian that you are.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Gingrich had a plan and he followed through with it. He did resign because of the ethics violation. Something the liberal politicians would never think of doing now, no matter how many times they are caught in a lie.
> 
> If you remember Nixon resigned because he lied. Obama would never think of resigning no matter how many lies he tells. Nixon was more of a MAN than Obama could ever think of being.


Bush never thought of resigning no mater how many lies he told and he told some whoppers. Got over 4000 Americans killed, let alone all the Iraq military and civilians.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> it is a conservative website, no use reading it.


Good to see you here again. It may be of some use to read a consercative and/or liberal website to "know what the enemy is doing". We don't have to enjoy this, but we might find it useful.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't bother Shemal; everyone knows what I wrote as do I.
> 
> Nothing you can do affects me.


Not even Jesus would affect you, apparently.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats voted for the bill. They should have read what was in the bill before passing a bill that would affect 6% our our economy. Had they done that, we wouldn't be in such a situation.
> 
> Your harping on what the Republicans do/don't do does not bother me. I am not a Republican and see just as much fault in that Party as you do.


I think you are a Republican, hiding under the guise of an Independent.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm SOOOOO happy you continue to embarrass yourself in any and every attempt to defame and attack me.
> 
> THE ENTIRE CONTENT of my post and those I replied to in the discussion was about the PAYING ENROLLEES, the percentage of PAYING ENROLLEES and the SIGN-UP/PAY DEADLINE for same that was even part of the same sentence!
> 
> ...


Hate the truth, the truth shall set you free.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We all know she is a complete and absolute idiot. I cannot believe I even read her post, I now remember what I don't miss by ignoring her posts.
> 
> Every editorial about the ACA deadlines and sign-up dates, Kathleen S, and Obama himself are all concerned about the Dec deadline and *who* is signing up and *paying*, which was part of my discussion with you about the testimony by KS in front of the Committee yesterday, but Susan is only interested in making herself look the fool she is.
> 
> At least susan does a good job of that! :-D


Not a nice word comes from your mouth. I can predict coal for Xmas.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why would they? They will be rewarded with a trophy for being the biggest loser, the biggest liar or the biggest fool! They're not about to give that up since it is coming to them. (translation: entitled to them, after all, yet the irony is they earned it!)


Are we ever wrong? Hell no!! Way to go Progressives.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Actually we have already had a redistribution of wealth for the middle class to the wealthy,the 1%. I am glad that you are in the 1%, but not everyone is.


You are so right Rocky. I have posted a chart several times showing how the income for the top 1% has continued to rise and the income for the rest has been stagnant and they just don't get it. The 1% can keep their money, no one is asking them to share what they earn. But they fight the minimum wage increase, they want to get rid of unions so there is no one to speak for the rest of us, they want to take away voting rights so they can elect someone whose a-- they can kiss so they get what they want. Besides all the people who use to be in the middle class and are now in the poor class. They still don't get it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Besides all this crap there has been another shooting in Colorado.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Nobel Peace Prize for NOTHING! He should be ashamed!


LL do you think he gave it to himself?


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Are we ever wrong? Hell no!! Way to go Progresso.
> 
> I like the tomato basil.....


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

loribelle said:


> OK, Ive watched everyone go back and forth at one another.
> 
> Now let me tell yall about those Reagan cuts. I was 16, my daddy had been hurt on the job. We were fighting Workers Comp at the time so daddy was getting Social Security Disability. While daddy was in the hospital recovering from yet another surgery, a letter comes from Social Security stating that daddy was fine and was able to go back to work and would not be receiving anymore benefits. Effective immediately. We were caught in the Reagan sweeps. No one had visited or talked to my daddy or his many doctors, someone just decided enough. So what do you do when you have nothing coming in? Not a lot. We were able to get foods stamps because I was the remaining child at home. My daddy was a hardworking man and this just about killed him. I did have him for 13 more years before he died at the age of 63  I was 29. Im still not over his death. I dont think I will ever.
> 
> ...


I am so sorry. But you'll not get any solace from these RW ladies.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Compared to what followed (Clinton, et al) Gingrich is a boy scout!


Just because Clinton got a "Blow Job". I never felt it was any of my business. I always believed that Hillary was the one who it effected. 
Didn't hurt our economy did it? But he did "lie" under oath didn't he? I never held that against him either, because I believe that he was "set up".


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Nixon not only lied he was complicit in the break in. He tried to cover it up.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


He WAS going to be impeached they had more than enough evidence to impeach him.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good to see you here again. It may be of some use to read a consercative and/or liberal website to "know what the enemy is doing". We don't have to enjoy this, but we might find it useful.


I do read conservative websites, know thy enemy, either I am seething with anger or laughing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Can't believe Boehner grew a pair and stood up to the right wing groups-people that were not elected to office who should not be setting policy anyway. Wonder how long it will last and really wonder why it took him so long.


I think the difference between Boehner's responses about the compromise budget now and the big circus that led to the government shutdown is all about attention. Yes, after all the Teahaddist absurdities, the fact that letting their opinions about a passable budget block the acceptance of any budget proved that a budget compromise had to be worked out queitly, not secretely, but without a huge amount of media attention.

Any one of us who wanted to know what was happening could have found information from many sources. If any one of us didn't keep up with what was happening to create a budget that both Dems and Reps could accept have only ourselves to blame. Much as I hate to say it, this could mean that the Republican Party has finally realized that their lunatic fringe has to remain just that, a lunatic fringe. I'm sure the Dems have the same problem.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Are we ever wrong? Hell no!! Way to go Progresso.
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

galinipper said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Are we ever wrong? Hell no!! Way to go Progresso.
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Not sure he grew a pair, maybe borrowed them from someone :shock:


I think Boehner remembered his position, the power that comes with it, and the location of his "pair". I can just picture Boehner whipping the lunatic fringe of his party into behaving themselves and keeping their mouths shut as much as possible. After all, the fact that budget negotiations were humming along out of intense public scrutiny shows just how much power the RWJ's don't have.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had health insurance. But why did Obamacare take it away from so many that had it? Even if when it will take effect there will be more people without insurance than there are now. Most of these will be the ones that will not able to pay for the new requirements.
> 
> You mention the emergency room. Do you think the use of the emergency room will decrease? I doubt it. Especially those on Medicaid that have free medical care, it is a habit to go to the emergency room. They will not change unless it costs them something.


So far, the net result of those who will have health insurance under the regulations and laws of Obamacare is a LOSS - more people will be without health insurance than before the stupid law was even passed by the Dems, and only the Dems.

AND every American will be paying more for less! How stupid is that? Way to go Dems!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Trainwreck: White House Issues More Frantic Obamacare Deadline Extensions
> 
> The Obama administration moved Thursday to protect some of the sickest patients in the country from the possibility that they would lose health insurance on New Years Day.


Don't worry, Joey, Susanmos said everyone can sign up until the end of March 2014, and, I, for one, put my trust and faith in her every word. NOT :-D



joeysomma said:


> On a conference call, an HHS spokeswoman emphasized: We are just proposing it as an option and were encouraging issuers. There is no requirement.
> 
> *Translation: HHS has a huge mess on its hands and it hopes that by getting ahead of this news, it can foist the blame for the problems on insurers. *
> 
> Of course, for insurers who have spent years designing plans to comply with the law, this would present huge and unreasonable logistical hurdles. HHS also announced there would be a "special enrollment period" for people who tried to purchase insurance by Dec. 23 but couldn't because of a "system error."


Hmm, I'm wondering why Obama is re-writing this law again, thereby breaking the law again, to allow an extended sign-up period if none is necessary and Susan was correct. Oh, that's right, she was wrong.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks, Nussa. We all could benefit from waiting for concrete results instead of speculating too soon about the ACA's success. And that doesn't mean waiting for a year or anything like that at all. We might have to wait until March of 2014, but I highly doubt it.


Nussa said:


> Think about it.......if you are going to look up any political figure, or political statement, on any website, are you going to find it to be unbiased? I don't think so. At this point, the way politics are being used by politicians and their big money supporters, I don't feel I can believe anything that is printed on most sites. I prefer to wait until things, such as the ACA have been up and running more than 2 months, before I make a decision on whether or not I believe it is working. I like to see the outcome for myself. Not take as gospel, any particular website at this point. Can you understand that? I want to choose for myself. I don't want you or your websites to choose for me, what I should think. I'd say that is pretty clear, isn't it?
> I will watch the news like everyone else. I will follow how things are going in our government. And I will pray that both sides can come together for our country and do what's right for the people. I believe this has explained to you that no matter how many times you ask me what website I believe in, you'll know that answer is NONE!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had health insurance. But why did Obamacare take it away from so many that had it? Even if when it will take effect there will be more people without insurance than there are now. Most of these will be the ones that will not able to pay for the new requirements.
> 
> You mention the emergency room. Do you think the use of the emergency room will decrease? I doubt it. Especially those on Medicaid that have free medical care, it is a habit to go to the emergency room. They will not change unless it costs them something.


I don't think he took it away, those insurance policies did not meet the ACA standards. Basically they were not good policies. I am hoping that the people who use the ER and now have health insurance they will learn to go to their doctor.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is taking from the middle class, with the outrageous premiums. Do you think the 1% will care what the insurance premiums are? What is $1000 a month for them? Where someone making $95,000 a year, $1000 a month is a big deal. Some premiums are much more than $1000.
> 
> For some the insurance premium is more than their rent or mortgage.


I have heard that a lot of premiums have been going down. Yes there will some premiums that will go up, but remember insurance companies also raised premiums and dropped people.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Your story is important. It should remind all of us that people who qualify for any given, life-saving, bone-deep neccessary benefits still aren't safe from government stupidity.Thanks for telling your story here.


loribelle said:


> Apparently you did not read what I wrote. My daddy was HURT ON THE JOB. He was NOT laid off, which Workers Comp has nothing to do with. Yes, it is state, but we were fighting for benefits from them. I didn't mention W's name anywhere.
> 
> Now listen, I'll slow it down for you --- Daddywaaaaas geeeeeting SSI durrrrrring thaaaaaaaaaat tiiiiiiime. SSI waaaaaaaaaaaaas stooooooooooooopped whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiile Daddy waaaaaaaaaaaas iiiiiiiin theeeeeeeeee hosssssssspitaaaaaaaal reeeeeecoooooooveriiiiiiiing froooooom suuuuuuuurgerrrrrrry. Theeeeeee leeeeetterrrr saaaaaid thaaaaat Daddy waaaaaas aaaaaabllllllle tooooo gooooo baaaaaack tooooo woooooork. Heeeeeeeee coooould nooooooot woooooork beeeeeecaaaaause heeeee waaaaaaaas stiiiiiiiiiil iiiiiinjurrrrred.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I'll try not to react emotionally. It serves no purpose. You know nothing about my background, nor my economic circumstances, so please, refrain from judging me. I have been poorer than you ever will be but I never thought of myself as a victim nor felt sorry for my condition.


It looks like the person severely over-reacted. I admire your reply.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: He has sewn more discourse and polarized our country more than any other person or issue, has ever done, in the last 80 years. Where's the peace?


You could not have said it better, Jokim!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> and you are the Queen of STUPID. also LL.


You know me not.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

deleted my comment, I don't want to play these games


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You know me not.


Unfortunately you represent yourself on this forum, and not as the brightest bulb in the pack


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hmm, I'm wondering why Obama is re-writing this law again, thereby breaking the law again, to allow an extended sign-up period if none is necessary and Susan was correct. Oh, that's right, she was wrong.


Still twisting and squirming, eh KPG? Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that, once again, you made a mistake?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trickle-down_economics
> 
> http://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/trickledowntheory.asp
> 
> ...


You bet it was Reagan -- this is from the Wikipedia entry:

* David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory."*


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Still twisting and squirming, eh KPG? Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that, once again, you made a mistake?


Do you ever make mistakes? I assume not. I assume you think you are perfect.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitry said:


> You bet it was Reagan -- this is from the Wikipedia entry:
> 
> * David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory."*


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD:

Amazing that those who said it was not Reagan ignored those links, or at least did not refute them. Well, not so amazing now that I think about it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You know me not.


I rephrase:

Thou knowest me not.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Do you ever make mistakes? I assume not. I assume you think you are perfect.


Of course not. But it's a lot simpler to admit a mistake and rectify it rather than try to bluff and lie one's way out, as KPG is so fond of doing.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You cannot be serious or that dumb. IT NEVER WORKED? :shock: (it worked perfectly on you!) "It" doesn't exist, "it" is nothing but words; *Democratic Party rhetoric*!
> 
> It was a SLOGAN to have the Dems get and stay angry at Reagan's tax cutting plan and to be used by Dems to repeat like parrots against him exactly as you are now doing.
> 
> Polly want a cracker along with your bowl of Koolaid?


Oh, Polly yourself. Let me share this with YOU, personally. From Wikipedia:

* David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory." *

So, are you REALLY wanting to call her dumb? Really? It most certainly DID exist, per Regan's own budget director.

I begin to understand why the likes of Fox News and other rightwing propaganda outfits feed you all such an unrelenting, constant diet of pure lies and deceit: you never, ever bother to check up on them or challenge them, which gives them the cover of your massive, gleeful ignorance. You never, ever seem to care that you're being fed pure malarky -- in part because you never allow yourselves to know it. Hey, some of what they feed you makes you feel massively better about yourslves, because it allows you to feel superior to others (another lie, actually, but go ahead and believe that if you like -- no skin off my nose).

It's breathtaking, and the sales job is so complete that it lets absolutely no light in. You are captured hook, line and sinker -- and will probably die as ill-informed and snookered as you all are right now.

One thing for sure: *DON'T EVER, EVER CALL ANY OF US OR ANY DEMOCRATS LIARS.* You have demonstrated over and over gain, convincingly, that you simply do not have the capacity to KNOW what is and what is not a lie.

And that brings me to Obama's "lie." I've left the charges alone because I haven't wanted to expend the energy to defend his misguided claim, but it's worth saying:

He didn't so much "lie" as he grossly mis-stated the truth, which he had no business doing. That's a fine distinction, one barely worth pressing forward, but I'm going to do it anyway because while he had ONE mis-statement, your people lie all the freaking time and no one lifts an eyebrow. I'm sick of it.

I'll say it again: he had no business doing that. What he and his political advisors got wrong was that their one terrible exaggeration would be so blown out of proportion. The TRUTH is that those who might have lost their insurance are only a small proportion of those who were individually, privately insured -- bought their insurance themselves. Most of them are eligible for ACA and some will even be eligible for Medicaid, so the "damage" isn't nearly as catastrophic as the right wing would have everyone believe. BUT, the beat goes on. He shouldn't have said it, period, and has hopefully learned that he can't make intemperate "promises" like this without reaping the whirlwind. I do not defend his STUPID decision to listen to his advisors on the matter, or his naive "trust" in his adversaries and the media.

But the fact remains: the whole thing has been grossly exaggerate and overwrought -- and flat out lied about, repeatedly.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Have you noticed that the Republicans in congress have given up the fight against Obamacare? Some reps have said that parts of it will actually work. Why do you want to see it fail? Don't you want people to have healthcare coverage? Or do you want the insurance companies to dictate healthcare at their discretion?


LOL. Not only that, but I've read that Fox News is starting to refer to it as the ACA, not "Obamacare," just as Obama himself had predicted.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I only believe the truth...and since I'm the one who wrote it.......hummm...let me think......Ummm.....Yep, it's the truth, so that's what I believe..... :thumbup:


soloweygirl said:


> Really? If that's what you want to believe now, okay.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Can't believe Boehner grew a pair and stood up to the right wing groups-people that were not elected to office who should not be setting policy anyway. Wonder how long it will last and really wonder why it took him so long.


That was something to behold, wasn't it?

"Are you KIDDING me??"he screamed. I absolutely loved it. Maybe he'll start acting like a Speaker of the House instead of a toady.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe joeysomma is one of those uninsured persons. That's why she's fighting ACA so hard,....Doesn't want to pay her fair share.....She wants the rest of us to pay for her.


rocky1991 said:


> No matter what kind of insurance we have, there are people who do not have insurance and those people will use the emergency room for their care. Emergency room medical care is the most expensive form of healthcare. Therefore the hospitals charge those who do have insurance more money to make up for the deficit. So we all pay more those people who are not insured. Is it your wish that those uninsured people do not seek medical care and just die to save you money? What form of care do you want those uninsured people to have?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is not "Health Care." Actual health care is between you and your doctor.
> 
> Obamacare is redistribution of wealth and government control.


Right. In the exact same way any and all taxation is redistribution of wealth, and all regulations that apply to any industry are -- no more, no less.

Or are you really proposing a complete lack of regulation and taxation? Would you like a one-way ticket to Somalia?

Clue phone: Wherever you picked up those talking points, they were purposely using loaded words and inflammatory rhetoric to elicit a particular response. They clearly succeeded. But did you get the truth? No -- you got a huge but delicious dose or propaganda.

Tip: Learn to think through some of these talking points. Ask yourself how that works, what the various terms (redistribution of wealth, government control) really mean and exactly how they apply to the matter at hand. How is the ACA "redistribution of wealth" and how is it "government control?" Try to get an accurate picture or idea that fleshes out and describes the claim, instead of just repeating it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Do you ever make mistakes? I assume not. I assume you think you are perfect.


She has a complex problem LL and believes she finds and points out mistakes I've made. She hasn't yet unless it was a typo that I admittedly make just like everyone else does. (frankly who cares about those except the LWNs on this thread)

My arguments in my posts are on target, make my point, and I'd admit if I made a mistake or lied, but I haven't done so because I haven't done so!

How boring of a life does susanmos have to spend her time attempting to disprove something that doesn't exist or never happened?

She needs a job, a life and some reading comprehension and logic courses.

Other than that, she's just swell.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, Polly yourself. Let me share this with YOU, personally. From Wikipedia:
> 
> * David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory." *
> 
> ...


*

So am I, Nussa. It bothers me to no end that KPG (in particular) has the gall to condemn Obama as a liar while spreading the untruths as far and wide as she can. The word 'hypocrisy' is too kind a term for her actions--frankly, I think the good lady has some serious issues.*


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You know me not.


But she thinks she knows us all making her a know nothing-at-all.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course not. But it's a lot simpler to admit a mistake and rectify it rather than try to bluff and lie one's way out, as KPG is so fond of doing.


KPG does not do that. I do not think you take what we say seriously (or bother to contemplate what we are saying).


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think I gave her that title quite a few pages ago...lol... :thumbup:


rocky1991 said:


> and you are the Queen of STUPID. also LL.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She has a complex problem LL and believes she finds and points out mistakes I've made. She hasn't yet unless it was a typo that I admittedly make just like everyone else does. (frankly who cares about those except the LWNs on this thread)
> 
> My arguments in my posts are on target, make my point, and I'd admit if I made a mistake or lied, but I haven't done so because I haven't done so!
> 
> ...


I completely agree with what you say. There is definitely a problem. Not apparent to the writer, but it is a deep problem. I completely understand what you are saying.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> to susanmos2000: *Do you ever make mistakes?* I assume not. I assume you think you are perfect.





susanmos2000 said:


> *Of course not. *But it's a lot simpler to admit a mistake and rectify it rather than try to bluff and lie one's way out, as KPG is so fond of doing.


Well, look here LukeLucy! Susanmos answered your question by admitting she is perfect and therefore, never makes a mistake. Perhaps I shall start reading her posts again so I can point out all _ her _ errors.

On second thought; could not care less what she has to say.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She has a complex problem LL and believes she finds and points out mistakes I've made. She hasn't yet unless it was a typo that I admittedly make just like everyone else does. (frankly who cares about those except the LWNs on this thread)
> 
> My arguments in my posts are on target, make my point, and I'd admit if I made a mistake or lied, but I haven't done so because I haven't done so!


Of course you have--and how foolish to try to lie your way out this latest one in front of Joey, who, as a professional tax preparer, is presumably aware of all the ACA deadlines and when they went into effect.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

loribelle said:


> OK, Ive watched everyone go back and forth at one another.
> 
> Now let me tell yall about those Reagan cuts. I was 16, my daddy had been hurt on the job. We were fighting Workers Comp at the time so daddy was getting Social Security Disability. While daddy was in the hospital recovering from yet another surgery, a letter comes from Social Security stating that daddy was fine and was able to go back to work and would not be receiving anymore benefits. Effective immediately. We were caught in the Reagan sweeps. No one had visited or talked to my daddy or his many doctors, someone just decided enough. So what do you do when you have nothing coming in? Not a lot. We were able to get foods stamps because I was the remaining child at home. My daddy was a hardworking man and this just about killed him. I did have him for 13 more years before he died at the age of 63  I was 29. Im still not over his death. I dont think I will ever.
> 
> ...


One of the most heartless Presidents we've ever had, smiling affably all the while.

I'm very sorry this happened to you, and I'm very sorry for all the millions of others harmed by Reagan as well.

I've thought to myself many times that a LOT of the problems we've had over the years were the direct result of letting a whole generation of youngsters grow up under 12 years of Republican rule. Bah! (Not to mention Reaganomics.)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I'll try not to react emotionally. It serves no purpose. You know nothing about my background, nor my economic circumstances, so please, refrain from judging me. I have been poorer than you ever will be but I never thought of myself as a victim nor felt sorry for my condition.


Jokim, very good of you to answer so politely to the body slam against you. Don't let any loon get to you. I admire and support you!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, look here LukeLucy! Susanmos answered your question by admitting she is perfect and therefore, never makes a mistake. Perhaps I shall start reading her posts again so I can point out all _ her _ errors.
> 
> On second thought; could not care less what she has to say.


KPG,

I absolutely could not care less about what they write/say. It is of no interest to me. What you write has far more interest. As I wrote before, I do not read their posts. My life is much more important, and I do not want to waste my precious time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, very good of you to answer so politely to the body slam against you. Don't let any loon get to you. I admire and support you!


Jokim is to be greatly admired! She is a solid human being with strong values. Easy to see.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

What a wonderful display of heartfelt compassion. I'm simply astonished.

But not at all surprised.



knitpresentgifts said:


> 1) I'm sorry what happened to your dad, but it had nothing to do with the made-up rhetoric by the Dems of trickle-down economics which is what you correlated your Dad's problem to.
> 
> 2) Workmen's Comp is EXACTLY and ONLY for compensation to an employed individual who was injured or suffered a loss while ON THE JOB, which is what you said happened. Workmen's Comp has little to do with SSDI or TDE yet you again attempted to place blame there. I assume your dad did receive Work's Comp, was entitled, but don't understand your connection placed on Reagan's shoulders as it is regulated by the state, (as Jokim suggested) not by any President.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, look here LukeLucy! Susanmos answered your question by admitting she is perfect and therefore, never makes a mistake.


You just told another untruth, KPG. How many does that make today?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I completely agree with what you say. There is definitely a problem. Not apparent to the writer, but it is a deep problem. I completely understand what you are saying.


 :thumbup: It isn't our problem to worry about.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The better and _only_ question is why doesn't Obama and the Democratic Party Congressmen want all Americans to have health insurance and care.


Like the Republicans do, you mean?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: He has sewn more discourse and polarized our country more than any other person or issue, has ever done, in the last 80 years. Where's the peace?


You know, it's a funny thing.

When I was very young, and not very well-informed (nor very interested in either history or current events), one thing I noted about Martin Luther King, Jr. in the several years before he was killed:

It seemed that violence and unrest seemed to follow him wherever he went. I noticed that and wondered why, not totally blaming him in my mind but never (until too many years later) quite figuring the whole thing out.

It seems Obama is "polarizing" in the very same way -- or shall I say for the very same reasons.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I have to say Knitry, I really enjoy reading your posts. You are very knowledgeable, and are very informative. I've learned a lot. And it makes sense, unlike some other peoples posts...They're posts are often a muddled mess.....and inaccurate.......I'm not going to say who's posts they are. 
Keep up the good work Knitry! :thumbup:


Knitry said:


> Right. In the exact same way any and all taxation is redistribution of wealth, and all regulations that apply to any industry are -- no more, no less.
> 
> Or are you really proposing a complete lack of regulation and taxation? Would you like a one-way ticket to Somalia?
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Actually we have already had a redistribution of wealth for the middle class to the wealthy,the 1%. I am glad that you are in the 1%, but not everyone is.


Thank you for pointing that out.

Here are just a couple of ways that works: The 1% continue to enjoy their tax cuts, while desperately needed food stamps are cut for the underprivileged, and unemployment benefits ended for the long-term unemployed. Both foodstamps and unemployment compensation go DIRECTLY into the local economy, helping that local community economically.

The middle class pays taxes but corporations like Wal-Mart and fast food industry can pay their employees not enough for them to feed themselves so the taxpayer has to step forward and subsidize their workers. And the 6 Wal-Mart family members have more wealth the Poorest 90 Million Americans 
http://www.allgov.com/Top_Stories/ViewNews/6_Members_of_WalMart_Family_Have_More_Money_than_Poorest_90_Million_Americans_111212

while each Wal-Mart store costs taxpayers $420,000 in food stamps for its workers 
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/20/1101630/-ATTN-GOP-SENATORS-Walmart-Is-The-Largest-Food-Stamp

A good numbeer of our largest corporations make billions of dollars and pay ZERO taxes on their income. 26 Major Corporations Paid No Corporate Income Tax For The Last Four Years, Despite Making Billions In Profits
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2012/04/09/460519/

Yep, massive redistribution of wealth upwards. Funny thing -- it's only a "class war" when the lower classes start objecting.

Another funny thing: "When I give food to the poor, they call me a saint. When I ask why the poor have no food, they call me a Communist." (Or a socialist or marxist.) - Bishop Dom Hélder Câmara


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

She's headed for another melt down....she does it pretty regularly....Usually when she's made or said something really stupid, or someone has made her feel stupid. You'll find it interesting.


rocky1991 said:


> Not a nice word comes from your mouth. I can predict coal for Xmas.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh dear.........she's peed her pants again....... 


knitpresentgifts said:


> ROFLMBO again today! Oh, happy day! :XD: :XD: :XD:       :XD: :XD: :XD: :-D :-D :-D    :XD: :XD: :XD: :-D :-D :-D


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think the difference between Boehner's responses about the compromise budget now and the big circus that led to the government shutdown is all about attention. Yes, after all the Teahaddist absurdities, the fact that letting their opinions about a passable budget block the acceptance of any budget proved that a budget compromise had to be worked out queitly, not secretely, but without a huge amount of media attention.
> 
> Any one of us who wanted to know what was happening could have found information from many sources. If any one of us didn't keep up with what was happening to create a budget that both Dems and Reps could accept have only ourselves to blame. Much as I hate to say it, this could mean that the Republican Party has finally realized that their lunatic fringe has to remain just that, a lunatic fringe. I'm sure the Dems have the same problem.


I'm sure the Dems do not. Or at least, if there IS a "lunatic fringe," two things: (1) I don't know anything about it and far more importantly, it has absolutely NO power whatsoever over the party. None. In fact, the liberal Democratic base is barely tolerated by the official party. Obama's handlers have treated it with outright, open contempt in the past, forgetting completely that they were beholden to us for their election.

THIS year Elizabeth Warren is stirring things up, and not just a little. Official Democratic Washington is shaking in their boots. But sill -- she's no lunatic, and what else they're finding out is she's far from fringe. She's what the base has been craving and asking for for years and years.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:
 

> Hmm, I'm wondering why Obama is re-writing this law again, thereby breaking the law again, to allow an extended sign-up period if none is necessary and Susan was correct. Oh, that's right, she was wrong.


I think you're confusing "law" with agency regulations and rules and guidelines. If some of these things you're so concerned with were actually part of the ACA law, they could only be changed by Congress. And the Republicans would be up in arms about them. I haven't heard a single tweet from them. So I think you're imagining things, or perhaps being fed another line of bull by --- wherever it is you get your news.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I have to say Knitry, I really enjoy reading your posts. You are very knowledgeable, and are very informative. I've learned a lot. And it makes sense, unlike some other peoples posts...They're posts are often a muddled mess.....and inaccurate.......I'm not going to say who's posts they are.
> Keep up the good work Knitry! :thumbup:


Thank you. I enjoy yours too -- and the others as well. Each of you has a certain flair and personality. Very enjoyable.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then I guess you have no idea of what is in the law. When the Republicans wanted to change the law to make what Obama did legal. Obama shut the government down.


Whats' the name of your alternate universe, and can you tell me how I can visit it, should I ever want to (which is doubtful)?

I don't think I've ever read so few words that were as outrageously inaccurate and wrong.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I hear so much of the 1%'s tax cuts. Please list one that is not available to anyone (individual) else that knows taxes. Also give a website.
> 
> I bet you are unable to find one!


Sorry, I don't know anything about taxes, nor do I have to to be critical of tax cuts that benefit only the very wealthy.

And that's the clue: I imagine that these tax cuts apply to anyone at all -- as long as your income is at those levels. I guess you'd call that equitable and egalitarian, eh? "You too can have these tax cuts, if only you earn enough to qualify."


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Whats' the name of your alternate universe, and can you tell me how I can visit it, should I ever want to (which is doubtful)?
> 
> I don't think I've ever read so few words that were as outrageously inaccurate and wrong.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, very good of you to answer so politely to the body slam against you. Don't let any loon get to you. I admire and support you!


Me too.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> *FYI: "Government control" is the government deciding what kind of insurance you have to have and if you don't you pay a tax (penalty). They are also deciding what the doctor will be reimbursed for your care. Many doctors are opting out and going to a cash only practice.*
> 
> Oh, like deciding what kind of car insurance you have to have -- what the limits are, what the coverages are, what the uninsured motorist requirements are? Is that what you mean?
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I am certainly not in any type of misery.....Didn't you look at the wonderful site I posted on page 21? It was full of love and good cheer.....here it is. Take a listen.....it has nothing whatever to do with politics....you might find it refreshing.....
> 
> http://www.uptv.com/blog/uplifting-video-cloverton-leonard-cohen-hallelujah-song


I really enjoyed that, btw. And thought I'd share something I came across yesterday that I also enjoyed very much --

http://www.godvine.com/What-a-Choir-of-Silent-Monks-Does-Will-Make-You-Laugh-2484.html

Enjoy!!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, there are *no* tax cuts for wealthy individuals.
> 
> You are confusing corporations with their owners.


Okay, let me rephrase that, then, for the picky, picky. Their rates went down -- that's a tax CUT.

If you're in the highest tax bracket, you pay less in taxes than you did or would have before George Bush's tax cuts for the rich.

Wkipedia again:

Before the tax cuts, the highest marginal income tax rate was 39.6 percent. After the cuts, the highest rate was 35 percent. Once the cuts were eliminated for high income levels (single people making $400,000+ per year and couples making $450,000+ per year), the top income tax rate returned to 39.6 percent.

...According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, the expiration of the Bush income tax rates (i.e., returning to Clinton-era rates) would have affected higher income families more than lower income families. The Bush tax cuts reduced income taxes for those earning over $1 million by $110,000 per year on average during the 2004-2012 period. The tax cuts made the tax system less progressive. From 2004 through 2012, the tax cuts increased the after-tax income of the highest-income taxpayers by a far larger percentage than they did for middle- and low-income taxpayers. During 2010 for example, the tax cuts increased the after-tax income of people making over $1 million by more than 7.3%, but increased the after-tax income of the middle 20% of households by just 2.8%[58]


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You said the same thing to me....."couldn't care less what you say," I'm not going to pay any attention to what you say," But like I said the last time.....You can't help yourself.....You're just a glutton for punishment. Do you like when people prove you wrong? And that in and of itself wouldn't be so bad, but you will defend your mistake to the bitter end. A rational person admits when they're wrong....an irrational one will start spinning yarns (get the pun? :thumbup: ) and start telling lie upon lie, trying to get out of the first lie they told, or mistake they made. I have dealt people like you....so I'm well aware of how it's done. I have found in life, that it is best to be 100% positive about something before you post it, or say it, unless you first let people know it's just speculation. No one wants to come off looking or sounding like a fool.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Well, look here LukeLucy! Susanmos answered your question by admitting she is perfect and therefore, never makes a mistake. Perhaps I shall start reading her posts again so I can point out all _ her _ errors.
> 
> On second thought; could not care less what she has to say.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Jokim said:


> :thumbup: He has sewn more discourse and polarized our country more than any other person or issue, has ever done, in the last 80 years. Where's the peace?


Ask the Republicans. 99.9% of all the polarization has been fomented by them. Even before Obama officially took office they were vowing to obstruct anything he tried to do. Even things that they themselves originated became things to obstruct when our president took them up.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: "Government control" is the government deciding what kind of insurance you have to have and if you don't you pay a tax (penalty). They are also deciding what the doctor will be reimbursed for your care. Many doctors are opting out and going to a cash only practice.


Guess what--currently insurance companies decide what your doctor will be paid, and what you will pay and what your premium and deductible will be.

Also, take what you here about doctors opting out with a grain of salt. Recently Faux News was spouting that "7 out of 8" California doctors were opting out. Investigation by a L.A> Times reporter showed that in fact 80% of doctors are currently opting IN, and that the number would probably be higher after the ACA gets going in the new year.



> "Redistribution of wealth" is making young people pay more for insurance that probably will never need so older people will not have to pay as much for insurance that they do need. If we are a free country, we should be responsible for ourselves.
> 
> My sociology teacher in College recommended that as young people starting out in a career, and money was tight, health insurance was one thing that could be last in a budget. Actually insurance is nothing more than taking a gamble. The insurance company is the odds maker.


The thing about assuming that young people will never need insurance, is that accidents happen. Illnesses can and do happen. Without insurance the rest of us end up paying for their care...and medical costs for the rest of us keep going up to compensate. Having insurance _is_ being responsible for oneself.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Cute....and funny......LOL. Thanks for posting.


Knitry said:


> I really enjoyed that, btw. And thought I'd share something I came across yesterday that I also enjoyed very much --
> 
> http://www.godvine.com/What-a-Choir-of-Silent-Monks-Does-Will-Make-You-Laugh-2484.html
> 
> Enjoy!!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jokim, very good of you to answer so politely to the body slam against you. Don't let any loon get to you. I admire and support you!


Thank you KPG. :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Isn't that something? The Republicans were willing to throw the whole country to the wolves, rather than let a Democrat be president. And left our country stagnate for so long, just because they didn't get their own way. President Obama was voted into office by a vote of the people. But the Republicans acted like babies. They lost the fight, but couldn't deal with it. They didn't have to agree with the President, but he was their President, and they should have shown him the respect that all Presidents deserve. But they couldn't do it, they had to fight him on everything, to the detriment of our country. I can see now why KPG, LL, joeysomma & Jokim act the way they do.......they are clones of the Republican party.


sumpleby said:


> Ask the Republicans. 99.9% of all the polarization has been fomented by them. Even before Obama officially took office they were vowing to obstruct anything he tried to do. Even things that they themselves originated became things to obstruct when our president took them up.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It looks like the person severely over-reacted. I admire your reply.


Thank you, LL. :thumbup: 
Emotional reactions very often are irrational.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I rephrase:
> 
> Thou knowest me not.


LL, are you perchance an Elizabethan literature aficionado? Sweet...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> *Obama raised them with Obamacare.*


Oh, you know what? There ARE tax increases in the ACA.

But I sure don't see a restoration of the Bush Tax Cuts. But I'm really glad you brought this up because the search provided some really good information on how reasonable this whole thing really is -- how little the individual "penalty" really is, for example, and how generous the subsidies to businesses for getting their employees ensured. And how minimal all the other taxes are.

Of course, I'm not allergic to taxes; I think they're part of our civic duty as Americans. These all seem extremely reasonable and measured to me. YMMV.

Here's one article: 
*Full List of Obamacare Tax Hikes Complied by Americans for Tax Reform* This is Republican Jeff uncan of S.C.'s website. (I'm pretty sure they mean COMPILED by Americans for Tax Reform) http://jeffduncan.house.gov/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes

*Full List of All Taxes in ObamaCare / All Taxes in the Affordable Care Act* 
http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-taxes.php


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG does not do that. I do not think you take what we say seriously (or bother to contemplate what we are saying).


I believe you're right, LL. They do not contemplate what we say.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I absolutely could not care less about what they write/say. It is of no interest to me. What you write has far more interest. As I wrote before, I do not read their posts. My life is much more important, and I do not want to waste my precious time.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Isn't that something? The Republicans were willing to throw the whole country to the wolves, rather than let a Democrat be president. And left our country stagnate for so long, just because they didn't get their own way. President Obama was voted into office by a vote of the people. But the Republicans acted like babies. They lost the fight, but couldn't deal with it. They didn't have to agree with the President, but he was their President, and they should have shown him the respect that all Presidents deserve. But they couldn't do it, they had to fight him on everything, to the detriment of our country. I can see now why KPG, LL, joeysomma & Jokim act the way they do.......they are clones of the Republican party.


Let's be really clear. Yes, they wanted to obstruct a Democratic President, but they were -- and still are -- absolutely rabid about a _black_ Democratic President.

That seething, full-throated resentment you see everywhere, surrounding and undergirding absolutely everything?? It's been my observation that it almost always accompanies deeply entrenched bigotry -- racism, sexism, homophobia. The resentment colors everything, and is based on nothing (well, nothing they can give voice to in public).


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You know, it's a funny thing.
> 
> When I was very young, and not very well-informed (nor very interested in either history or current events), one thing I noted about Martin Luther King, Jr. in the several years before he was killed:
> 
> ...


Not 'for the very same reasons' nor 'in the same way', Martin Luther King, Jr. was an honorable man.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

A really interesting and illuminating article for my friends on the Left, talking about Fox News and stuff. Fortunately, I know the righties aren't going to bother, but I hope the others will -- it's worth it all the way to the end:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/12/1260331/-Hey-MSNBC-Remember-that-47-thing-that-boosted-your-ratings


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The article is a joke. Presidents before Clinton did attend the National Boy Scout Jamboree and address the scouts in person. I believe George Bush 43 did also.
> But Obama could not be bothered.


Very telling, isn't it, Joey? :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Very telling, isn't it, Joey? :thumbup:


Sure is. The little monkeys ("Me too!" "Me three!" ) have returned to their nit picking.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Just because Clinton got a "Blow Job". I never felt it was any of my business. I always believed that Hillary was the one who it effected.
> Didn't hurt our economy did it? But he did "lie" under oath didn't he? I never held that against him either, because I believe that he was "set up".


I agree, and no one died. How many people died because of Bush?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hmm, I'm wondering why Obama is re-writing this law again, thereby breaking the law again, to allow an extended sign-up period if none is necessary and Susan was correct. Oh, that's right, she was wrong.


The period of time during which individuals who are eligible to enroll in a Qualified Health Plan can enroll in a plan in the Marketplace. For coverage starting in 2014, the Open Enrollment Period is October 1, 2013March 31, 2014. For coverage starting in 2015, the Open Enrollment Period is November 15, 2014January 15, 2015.

The extension of the time till March is old news. Shows how much you pay attention and how much you know.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I have heard that a lot of premiums have been going down. Yes there will some premiums that will go up, but remember insurance companies also raised premiums and dropped people.


And remember insurance companies are still insurance companies. They are still going to make money, any way they can. My daughter just had an x-ray on her knee today. Her Dr had ordered an MRI, but her insurance said no, they would do an x-ray and physical therapy. The reason her Dr wanted an MRI is because when the Dr was examining her knee and turned it a certain way, her foot went numb. So of course the x-ray showed nothing. She will talk to her Dr again on Monday. They should not have the right to do that, get in between patient and Dr, but they do. Now don't get you tinsel in a tangle, it is not Obamacare. This is the insurance she already had, through her husbands employer.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I'll try not to react emotionally. It serves no purpose. You know nothing about my background, nor my economic circumstances, so please, refrain from judging me. I have been poorer than you ever will be but I never thought of myself as a victim nor felt sorry for my condition.


" I have been poorer than you ever will be"

Now you have no way of knowing that. That is a guess on your part.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are right about the open enrollment period. But if you want the health coverage to start Jan 1, 2014 you were to have enrolled and paid before Dec 23, 2013. Unless you can figure out the mess that has been made in the last few days.
> 
> Normally you need to enroll and pay before you have insurance. It doesn't seem that Obama is aware of that, since he wants the insurance companies to pay for care, even if people to not have policies.


AND the only point of my post that susan and now NJG *completely* misrepresent, choose to ignore or are too stupid to understand was about ONLY those enrollees who had or would *pay* their premiums in order to have the coverage they chose as of Jan 1, 2014.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obamacare is taking from the middle class, with the outrageous premiums. Do you think the 1% will care what the insurance premiums are? What is $1000 a month for them? Where someone making $95,000 a year, $1000 a month is a big deal. Some premiums are much more than $1000.
> 
> For some the insurance premium is more than their rent or mortgage.


If there is anyone out there in the top 1% that did not have insurance it is now fault but their own. I doubt the ACA affects them at all.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> AND the only point of my post that susan and now NJG *completely* misrepresent, choose to ignore or are too stupid to understand was about ONLY those enrollees who had or would *pay* their premiums in order to have the coverage they chose as of Jan 1, 2014.


*wiggle wiggle*


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You bet it was Reagan -- this is from the Wikipedia entry:
> 
> * David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory."*


Thank you Knitry. KPG will still try to wiggle her way out of her statements like she always does, but we know she is wrong. Even if she calls it triple down economics again, she is still wrong, and it was Reagans idea, no matter what she wants to call it, not the democrats idea.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So that's the type of people that KPG, LL, joeysomma & Jokim get all their information. Well, not LL & KPG so much. They just mimic the other two..Seems they were quoting a lot of crazy, Obama bashing people word for word most of time...... I KNEW IT! 
Oh....but it's a shame they can't think for themselves. But from what I read.....people who believe this tripe, are weak minded. It explains so much about that type of person. 
It truly is a kind of cult. Scary when you think so many people choose to believe this. I fear for this world if that way of thinking ever takes hold......Thanks for sharing Knitry.... :thumbup:


Knitry said:


> A really interesting and illuminating article for my friends on the Left, talking about Fox News and stuff. Fortunately, I know the righties aren't going to bother, but I hope the others will -- it's worth it all the way to the end:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/12/1260331/-Hey-MSNBC-Remember-that-47-thing-that-boosted-your-ratings


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Funny :XD:


NJG said:


> Thank you Knitry. KPG will still try to wiggle her way out of her statements like she always does, but we know she is wrong. Even if she calls it triple down economics again, she is still wrong.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She has a complex problem LL and believes she finds and points out mistakes I've made. She hasn't yet unless it was a typo that I admittedly make just like everyone else does. (frankly who cares about those except the LWNs on this thread)
> 
> My arguments in my posts are on target, make my point, and I'd admit if I made a mistake or lied, but I haven't done so because I haven't done so!
> 
> ...


You just lied again by saying you you would admit it if you did. You would probably do better if you just shut up. This constant trying to convince yourself you don't lie is silly. We all know you do and you will never convince us so just shut up.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh no!.......A whole bunch of boy scouts have been traumatized for life because you say President Obama couldn't be there to talk to them in person.......I'm sure that's the worst thing any President has ever done......Oh no, wait........President G.W. Bush got a whole lot of grown up boy/girl scouts killed.....They were called soldiers...You have to stop posting such childish nonsense.......you obviously don't realize how lame that post was. You're a Foxcultist....It's a shame they don't have a cure for it. I'm just glad it doesn't effect the intelligent. Again I have to ask......REALLY!!!!


joeysomma said:


> The article is a joke. Presidents before Clinton did attend the National Boy Scout Jamboree and address the scouts in person. I believe George Bush 43 did also.
> But Obama could not be bothered.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, Polly yourself. Let me share this with YOU, personally. From Wikipedia:
> 
> * David Stockman, who as Reagan's budget director championed these cuts at first but then became skeptical of them, told journalist William Greider that the "supply-side economics" is the trickle-down idea: "It's kind of hard to sell 'trickle down,' so the supply-side formula was the only way to get a tax policy that was really 'trickle down.' Supply-side is 'trickle-down' theory." *
> 
> ...


The republicans also have no business with the constant sabotage of the ACA. They set up false web sites, they spent millions trying to tell young people they don't need insurance and not to get it. Why would someone have so little empathy for their fellow human beings that they would do that? All the horror stories on Fox News, that when they were checked out were not true. The father who didn't include his 4th child, The couple who complained about their small business couldn't put any one at full time, because of Obamacare. They only had 4 employees, so the ACA doesn't affect them. Did Fox check it out so they weren't putting out false information? Of course not. They know they have a lot of low information voters watching so let them believe the lies. Disgusting.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

The idea of FAIR PLAY, and REPUBLICAN'S doesn't exist in this world.


NJG said:


> The republicans also have no business with the constant sabotage of the ACA. They set up false web sites, they spent millions trying to tell young people they don't need insurance and not to get it. Why would someone have so little empathy for their fellow human beings that they would do that? All the horror stories on Fox News, that when they were checked out were not true. The father who didn't include his 4th child, The couple who complained about their small business couldn't put any one at full time, because of Obamacare. They only had 4 employees, so the ACA doesn't affect them. Did Fox check it out so they weren't putting out false information? Of course not. They know they have a lot of low information voters watching so let them believe the lies. Disgusting.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: "Government control" is the government deciding what kind of insurance you have to have and if you don't you pay a tax (penalty). They are also deciding what the doctor will be reimbursed for your care. Many doctors are opting out and going to a cash only practice.
> 
> "Redistribution of wealth" is making young people pay more for insurance that probably will never need so older people will not have to pay as much for insurance that they do need. If we are a free country, we should be responsible for ourselves.
> 
> My sociology teacher in College recommended that as young people starting out in a career, and money was tight, health insurance was one thing that could be last in a budget. Actually insurance is nothing more than taking a gamble. The insurance company is the odds maker.


I am sure that was many many years ago. Any sociology teacher of today, with the current cost of a hospitalization after, say a car accident, would never recommend someone be without health insurance. Yes we should be responsible for ourselves. But how responsible would it be for a young person to be without health insurance, get sick or injured and bankrupt his parents? You are not too smart it appears.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Thank you for pointing that out.
> 
> Here are just a couple of ways that works: The 1% continue to enjoy their tax cuts, while desperately needed food stamps are cut for the underprivileged, and unemployment benefits ended for the long-term unemployed. Both foodstamps and unemployment compensation go DIRECTLY into the local economy, helping that local community economically.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You said the same thing to me....."couldn't care less what you say," I'm not going to pay any attention to what you say," But like I said the last time.....You can't help yourself.....You're just a glutton for punishment. Do you like when people prove you wrong? And that in and of itself wouldn't be so bad, but you will defend your mistake to the bitter end. A rational person admits when they're wrong....an irrational one will start spinning yarns (get the pun? :thumbup: ) and start telling lie upon lie, trying to get out of the first lie they told, or mistake they made. I have dealt people like you....so I'm well aware of how it's done. I have found in life, that it is best to be 100% positive about something before you post it, or say it, unless you first let people know it's just speculation. No one wants to come off looking or sounding like a fool.


That is right Nussa, but it is too late for KPG.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> A really interesting and illuminating article for my friends on the Left, talking about Fox News and stuff. Fortunately, I know the righties aren't going to bother, but I hope the others will -- it's worth it all the way to the end:
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/12/12/1260331/-Hey-MSNBC-Remember-that-47-thing-that-boosted-your-ratings


Very good article. Love Daily Kos


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm afraid so......To late for all of them really. I'm just amazed at how illogical some people can be. How do you go through life and believe only one thing? If you don't have an open mind, you can't think logically.
I just feel pity for people like them.


NJG said:


> That is right Nussa, but it is too late for KPG.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right about the open enrollment period. But if you want the health coverage to start Jan 1, 2014 you were to have enrolled and paid before Dec 23, 2013. Unless you can figure out the mess that has been made in the last few days.
> 
> Normally you need to enroll and pay before you have insurance. It doesn't seem that Obama is aware of that, since he wants the insurance companies to pay for care, even if people to not have policies.


Wake up. He does not expect them to be covered if they do not have a policy. If they enroll after 01/01/14, their coverage will probably start the first of the next month after they enroll and pay. 
What a stupid statement.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> AND the only point of my post that susan and now NJG *completely* misrepresent, choose to ignore or are too stupid to understand was about ONLY those enrollees who had or would *pay* their premiums in order to have the coverage they chose as of Jan 1, 2014.


I commented on the statement Joey made, and it was a pretty stupid statement. A little common sense goes a long way.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh no!.......A whole bunch of boy scouts have been traumatized for life because you say President Obama couldn't be there to talk to them in person.......I'm sure that's the worst thing any President has ever done......Oh no, wait........President G.W. Bush got a whole lot of grown up boy/girl scouts killed.....They were called soldiers...You have to stop posting such childish nonsense.......you obviously don't realize how lame that post was. You're a Foxcultist....It's a shame they don't have a cure for it. I'm just glad it doesn't effect the intelligent. Again I have to ask......REALLY!!!!


I am flattered that you copied my 'cultist' comments. I will try to come up with something else for you to copy.

Clinton had a body bag list. And that list did not even include the dead on the USS Cole, the first bombing of The Towers, the people at the aspirin factory that Clinton bombed during the vote for his impeachment. And the failure to take OBL which caused the deaths of 9/11

Obama has his own body bag count, starting with Benghazi. Obama has a habit of disrespect. Obama was in the Richmond area when the earthquake hit the town 15 miles away he ignored them. That town lost the High School,an Elementary School, business and scores of homes and he would not take 20 min to even do a fly over to assess the damage. How many days did it take him to acknowledge the Gulf Oil Spill. He blamed our bad economy on a tsunami. How was it that out of 37 people that read the Gettysburg Address, he read the draft that did not have the word God in it? (So he didn't even have the respect to read the address, he did the draft). He has time to laugh and take a selfie at a Memorial Service, but not the time to have meetings to fix the Obamacare website. He is the number one liar for 2013.

I am sure that there are so many other examples of disrespect or maybe a better term is also arrogant. And if you are also a Hilarycultist, you must believe that blaming Bush is not important................it happened so long ago in the past.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> CBO stuns! 'Rich' pay 106% of income taxes
> 
> Refutes longtime Obama claim that wealthy don't pay 'fair share'
> 
> ...


Thank you Joeys. You always back up with proof of what you are saying. I have learned a lot from you. :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am flattered that you copied my 'cultist' comments. I will try to come up with something else for you to copy.
> 
> Clinton had a body bag list. And that list did not even include the dead on the USS Cole, the first bombing of The Towers, the people at the aspirin factory that Clinton bombed during the vote for his impeachment. And the failure to take OBL which caused the deaths of 9/11
> 
> Obama has his own body bag count, starting with Benghazi. Obama has a habit of disrespect. Obama was in the Richmond area when the earthquake hit the town 15 miles away he ignored them. That town lost the High School,an Elementary School, business and scores of homes and he would not take 20 min to even do a fly over to assess the damage. How many days did it take him to acknowledge the Gulf Oil Spill. He blamed our bad economy on a tsunami. How was it that out of 37 people that read the Gettysburg Address, he read the draft that did not have the word God in it? (So he didn't even have the respect to read the address, he did the draft). He has time to laugh and take a selfie at a Memorial Service, but not the time to have meetings to fix the Obamacare website. He is the number one liar for 2013.


I'm afraid I'd have to nominate KPG for that position. She's told so many fibs in the last seventy-two hours that it's impossible to keep count. Her snake imitation is precious...even Santa might be taken in. Who knows? Maybe he'll pop her in a sack, slap on a bow, and place her beneath Cruz's X-mas tree.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> He WAS going to be impeached they had more than enough evidence to impeach him.


Yes, inded. Old Tricky Dick was going to be impeached, and if he had been, he bwouild have ben gound guilty, and he probably would have faced further legal action against him that might have been serious enough to land him in jail. Hence his resignation from the Presidency. It has to be pretty bad when being the only President to resign is an attractive alternative to impeachment.

Some of you think that President Obama is a traitor and liar, and a lot of other ugly things. If this was true, there would be a serious, puiblic atempt to impeach him. Those who remember Watergate and Nixon's administration can probably compare Nixon and Obama and clearly see that Obama is squeaky clean by comparison. Heck, even Clinton was squeaky clean compared to Nixon.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yes, inded. Old Tricky Dick was going to be impeached, and if he had been, he bwouild have ben gound guilty, and he probably would have faced further legal action against him that might have been serious enough to land him in jail. Hence his resignation from the Presidency. It has to be pretty bad when being the only President to resign is an attractive alternative to impeachment.
> 
> Some of you think that President Obama is a traitor and liar, and a lot of other ugly things. If this was true, there would be a serious, puiblic atempt to impeach him. Those who remember Watergate and Nixon's administration can probably compare Nixon and Obama and clearly see that Obama is squeaky clean by comparison. Heck, even Clinton was squeaky clean compared to Nixon.


So true, Maid. The fact that some forty of Nixon's aids and associates wound up in jail pretty well sums up what would have happened to him, had he not resigned. The man was the lowest of the low.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim is to be greatly admired! She is a solid human being with strong values. Easy to see.


LL have you ever had an original thought? Or do you just agree with your cohorts?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then I guess you have no idea of what is in the law. When the Republicans wanted to change the law to make what Obama did legal. Obama shut the government down.
> 
> I guess they decided to let Obama get his way, since it would hurt to many people (government shut down)if he did not get his way. Now Obama is hurting far more people.


How is your alternate reality working for you?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-deductions-favor-rich

-1.aspx


Knitry said:


> Sorry, I don't know anything about taxes, nor do I have to to be critical of tax cuts that benefit only the very wealthy.
> 
> And that's the clue: I imagine that these tax cuts apply to anyone at all -- as long as your income is at those levels. I guess you'd call that equitable and egalitarian, eh? "You too can have these tax cuts, if only you earn enough to qualify."


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, there are *no* tax cuts for wealthy individuals.
> 
> You are confusing corporations with their owners.


http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-deductions-favor-rich-1.aspx


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

*joeysomma wrote:*


> Then I guess you have no idea of what is in the law. When the Republicans wanted to change the law to make what Obama did legal. Obama shut the government down.
> 
> I guess they decided to let Obama get his way, since it would hurt to many people (government shut down)if he did not get his way. Now Obama is hurting far more people.


*Rocky1991 wrote:*


> How is your alternate reality working for you?


Alternate reality is right! It's amazing how the right will do something and then try to put it off on the Democrats or Obama. And followers buy it. Just as they buy the balderdash that the ACA isn't "legal." Amazing.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> I am sure that was many many years ago. Any sociology teacher of today, with the current cost of a hospitalization after, say a car accident, would never recommend someone be without health insurance. Yes we should be responsible for ourselves. But how responsible would it be for a young person to be without health insurance, get sick or injured and bankrupt his parents? You are not too smart it appears.


Joey, do you know how much it costs to be hospitalized for severe trauma from an auto accident? The first hour alone could be $200,000 dollars and intensive care adds enormously each day. Young people are not immunized to auto accidents, it is up to them to be responsible for their bills. Unfortunately we have a generation of "young" adults who have been so indulged that they do not take responsibility.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The article is a joke. Presidents before Clinton did attend the National Boy Scout Jamboree and address the scouts in person. I believe George Bush 43 did also.
> But Obama could not be bothered.


You weren't supposed to read it. BUT, since you did -- way to go, missing the whole entire point. Love it. (And I continue to learn more of the mechanics about how the right wing base gets and keeps themselves completely snookered.)

Beyond that, your response isn't worth bothering with, so I won't.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I rephrase:Thou knowest me not.


LL, sure, we don't know you as the complete person you are in "real" life. Unfortunately, we do know you here on KP and you're the one who is defining yourself. Same goes for the rest of us.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-deductions-favor-rich
> 
> -1.aspx


Ohh, thanks for posting that. So true, and some things I hadn't thought about in quite that way.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> That was something to behold, wasn't it?
> 
> "Are you KIDDING me??"he screamed. I absolutely loved it. Maybe he'll start acting like a Speaker of the House instead of a toady.


I'm sticking with my belief that Boehner finally realized the lunatic fringe of his party had to be stopped from defining the Republican Party and that he shouldn't give them more weight in the creaqtion of a compromise budget than they warranted, which was pretty small. I was amazed by the "Are you KIDDING me!" remark, but am impressed by it at the same time.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You are absolutely right rocky 1991. The youth of today have been mollycoddled by their parents and told they're always right, and Mom & Dad will be there to make everything better. So all of us have to pay when they grow up to be incapable of taking care of themselves. Then what happens when Mom and Dad have passed? Who's going to pay their bills then? They haven't learned how to deal with the real world. They are a the "GENERATION OF THE ENTITLED!" And you know who's fault it is? Not the children. How were they supposed to know how to live in the real world when Mom & Dad didn't let them grow up in it? And these are the people who will some day run our country. Sad state of affairs I'd say...


rocky1991 said:


> Joey, do you know how much it costs to be hospitalized for sever trauma from an auto accident? The first hour alone could be $200,000 dollars and intensive care adds enormously each day. Young people are not immunized to auto accidents, it is up to then to be responsible for their bills. Unfortunately we have a generation of "young" adults who have been so indulged that they do not take responsibility.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree, and no one died. How many people died because of Bush?


What about the 'suicide' at Ft. Marcy?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> CBO stuns! 'Rich' pay 106% of income taxes
> 
> Refutes longtime Obama claim that wealthy don't pay 'fair share'
> 
> The Congressional Budget Office study, The Distribution of Household Income and Federal Taxes, 2010,  shows that the top 40 percent of households, based on pre-tax income, paid a remarkable 106.2 percent of the nations income tax in 2010. Meanwhile, households in the bottom 40 percent paid negative income tax, receiving an average of $18,950 in government transfer payments while paying no federal income tax.


There's a fix for that: Pay people enough so that they earn enough so that they qualify for paying income taxes instead of the Earned Income Tax Credit. And isn't it just a little mean-spirited to resent those people who qualify for and take advantage of what the law provides for them?? I think it is. Here's what the EITC is all about:



> EITC, the Earned Income Tax Credit, sometimes called EIC is a tax credit to help you keep more of what you earned. It is a refundable federal income tax credit for low to moderate income working individuals and families. Congress originally approved the tax credit legislation in 1975 in part to offset the burden of social security taxes and to provide an incentive to work. When EITC exceeds the amount of taxes owed, it results in a tax refund to those who claim and qualify for the credit.
> 
> To qualify, you must meet certain requirements and file a tax return, even if you do not owe any tax or are not required to file.
> 
> *To qualify for EITC you must have earned income from employment, self-employment or another source* and meet certain rules. Also, you must either meet the additional rules for workers without a qualifying child or have a child that meets all the qualifying child rules for you.


also see this cool video: *Debunking Myths About Who Pays No Federal Income Tax * 




And complaints about who's paying the federal income tax (or not) are misleading in another key way:



> These figures cover only the federal income tax and ignore the substantial amounts of other federal taxes  especially the payroll tax  that many of these households pay. As a result, these figures greatly overstate the share of households that do not pay federal taxes. Tax Policy Center data show that *only about 17 percent of households did not pay any federal income tax or payroll tax in 2009*, despite the high unemployment and temporary tax cuts that marked that year. In 2007, a more typical year, the figure was 14 percent. This percentage would be even lower if it reflected other federal taxes that households pay, including excise taxes on gasoline and other items.
> 
> http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=3505


Also:



> ...*(W)hy don't 49 percent of Americans owe any federal income tax on April 15th? There are two main reasons: income level and tax benefits.* The tax system in the United States is designed to be progressive, meaning that higher incomes are asked to pay a larger percentage in taxes. If your income level is relatively low, standard deductions and exemptions can quickly lower your tax burden to zero. According to the Tax Policy Center, a non-partisan research center, a family of four earning $26,400 a year will pay no taxes because the $11,600 standard deduction plus four exemptions of $3,700 each will lower their taxable income to zero.
> 
> Roughly half of Americans who pay no Federal income tax do so because they simply don't earn enough money. The other half doesn't pay taxes because of special provisions in the tax code that benefit certain taxpayers, notably the elderly and working families with children. For example, the tax code excludes a portion of Social Security income and gives larger standard deductions and tax credits to the elderly. And many working families with children qualify for both the child credit and the earned income tax credit. Together, the elderly and working families with children account for 74 percent of all nontaxable households that aren't excluded by income level alone.
> http://www.howstuffworks.com/only-53-percent-pay-income-tax.htm


More ways to fix what SOME feel is not enough people paying federal income tax: Raise the minimum wage, and create lots more jobs by passing a real jobs bill, and quit trying to destroy unions, which have the effect of helping create a middle class and raising incomes for all workers.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> CBO stuns! 'Rich' pay 106% of income taxes
> 
> Refutes longtime Obama claim that wealthy don't pay 'fair share'
> 
> ...


Joey, it's a well-known fact that a significantly small (rich)minority pays most of the taxes in this country. Yet, the left hates the rich, while at the same time lives off their taxes and hard work, and exploits them for their purposes, all along fomenting hatred against them. Note how many of the super-rich contribute to leftist causes? 'Every Marx has his Engels'


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Oops -- I forgot to include two of the infographics I found:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

galinipper said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Are we ever wrong? Hell no!! Way to go Progresso.
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Yes, it would be wonderful if everyone had health insurance. But why did Obamacare take it away from so many that had it? Even if when it will take effect there will be more people without insurance than there are now. Most of these will be the ones that will not able to pay for the new requirements.
> 
> You mention the emergency room. Do you think the use of the emergency room will decrease? I doubt it. Especially those on Medicaid that have free medical care, it is a habit to go to the emergency room. They will not change unless it costs them something.


This doesn't even address all the policy holders that will have deductibles so high, they cannot afford to go to the doctor and will be forced to use the ER. The middle class is holding on now, add to their finances a 12K deductible and higher co-pays and increased costs of medications and see how often then seek medical treatment. This is a disastrous ripple effect for the middle class.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I asked Knitry to state one tax break that was available to the wealthy individual that was not available to anyone else.
> 
> None are in the site. Everything stated just says the wealthy get a larger deduction, and many taxes have been increased or added just for the wealthy since the article was for 2011 and 2012.
> 
> * There are NO tax breaks for the wealthy*


Give me a break. Federal tax deductions on mortgages, the relatively low (15%, I believe) tax on long-term capital gains, the step-up in basis rule for inherited assets, and tax-deferred retirement plans all favor the wealthy. How many poor people are paying off a mortgage, own stocks and bonds, can expect to inherit anything substantial, and are saving for retirement?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Thank you for pointing that out.
> 
> Here are just a couple of ways that works: The 1% continue to enjoy their tax cuts, while desperately needed food stamps are cut for the underprivileged, and unemployment benefits ended for the long-term unemployed. Both foodstamps and unemployment compensation go DIRECTLY into the local economy, helping that local community economically.
> 
> ...


How long should unemployment benefits last? It's up to 99 weeks now, how much longer should it be permitted? European countries keep their time for benefits on a short leash and find that people will find a job before the benefits run out.

It seems you adhere to Nancy Pelosi's statement that unemployment is good for the economy. If the unemployed had a job, that money would also go DIRECTLY into the local community. Then again, having a job would be counter productive to government control of its citizens.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Maid. The fact that some forty of Nixon's aids and associates wound up in jail pretty well sums up what would have happened to him, had he not resigned. The man was the lowest of the low.


If I remember correctly I think we need to add that he was pardoned by Gerald Ford before he could be charged!!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thank you Joeys. You always back up with proof of what you are saying. I have learned a lot from you. :thumbup:


Joey, We all learn a lot from you. Thank you!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Politics and Policy

Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site

Flaws Include Missing Customers and Inaccurate Eligibility Determinations

By Christopher Weaver

Updated Dec. 13, 2013 7:42 p.m. ET

Thousands of web applicants above have received inaccurate assignments. Associated Press

Insurers and federal officials sifting through insurance applications under the health-care law have identified a raft of errors, including missing customers and inaccurate eligibility determinations that mean people may be enrolled in the wrong coverage.

Thousands of insurance applicants from HealthCare.govat least one in five at the height of the problems by one estimatehave received inaccurate assignments to Medicaid or to the marketplace for private plans, or have received incorrect denials, people familiar with the matter said. Eligibility determinations are an early step in the application process, before consumers choose plans.

In some cases described by a state official with knowledge of the matter, legal immigrants who aren't yet eligible for Medicaid in Illinoisit takes five years of residence to join the state-run programs for low-income peoplewere nevertheless told they would be enrolled.

The risk that consumers could remain in limbo as the health law's coverage expansion begins in January has been a continual political threat to the Obama administration, which has addressed flawsranging from a malfunctioning website to the cancellation of health policies that don't meet the law's requirementswith a patchwork of last-minute fixes.

The Department of Health and Human Services on Thursday urged insurers to help avoid Jan. 1 mix-ups by loosening coverage rules. Officials asked companies to cover people retroactively who miss the Jan. 1 deadline to pay premiums and pay for drugs next month, even for customers who haven't yet fully enrolled.

But insurance-industry executives warn that some of these data problems will only emerge once customers begin seeking care in January at physicians' offices, pharmacies and hospitals. The result could be bureaucratic chaos as doctors and patients storm insurers' phone banks and federal officials work to clean up the inaccuracies.

There will be "eligibles lost in the ether," said Mark Bertolini, chief executive of Aetna Inc., AET -0.18% in an interview. In some cases, children who are meant to be .

"The big moment of truth is 12 a.m. Jan. 1, when a mother is standing at a pharmacy with a baby in her arms trying to get a script filled," Mr. Bertolini told investors Thursday.

HHS spokeswoman Joanne Peters said, "HealthCare.gov is making accurate determinations for nearly all users," though she acknowledged that applicants with "complicated family and tax situations" have faced problems.

"As part of the technical enhancements to HealthCare.gov, we have fixed several issues related to eligibility determinations, and we are working to implement additional fixes soon for bugs that are impacting a limited number of people," she said.

Administration officials urged customers to contact the companies they believe will cover them to verify their enrollment, or call state Medicaid agencies to confirm that they are in fact eligible for those programs. People who believe they have received inaccurate eligibility determinations can appeal the decisions, HHS officials have said.

To correct inaccuracies, some people may have to delete accounts and start over now that some glitches have been repaired, people familiar with the matter said.

Insurers have been working for months to clean up other data problems, such as missing data fields and children reported as spouses, in enrollment files they receive from the federal exchange. The Obama administration has said about one-quarter of enrollment filesknown in the industry as 834swere flawed initially, but repair efforts have reduced the error rates to one in 10.

"We certainly want to make sure that [for] anyone who thinks that they've enrolled with us, actually the information has gone to the planso that when the person shows up in January to get health care, you all will know who they are," Gary Cohen, a top official in the HHS agency overseeing the law, told a health-plan industry conference on Thursday.

As insurers start to match up federal data files against the roster of enrollees known to them, some companies say they are finding discrepancies they must still sort out with three weeks to go before policies must go into effect.

But the flawed eligibility determinations raise the prospect that insurers could face a scramble that stretches deeper into January.

"We are able to resolve the errors that we do find in our data," said Merit Smith, chief strategy officer of FirstCare Health Plans, based in Austin, Texas. "We can't look back up the pipeline and see what's up there" that hasn't yet emerged, he said.

The eligibility determination errors are the result of software malfunctions in a system meant to assign people to Medicaid or the insurance marketplaces, the two main arms of the law's coverage expansion. The software filters people based on things like immigration status and income based on about 200 rules.

Errors can lead to people who earn too much being enrolled in state Medicaid programs for which they aren't actually eligible, or citizens being incorrectly barred from the marketplaces.

Federal officials and the contractor that developed HealthCare.gov, CGI Group Inc., GIB.A.T -0.25% have identified dozens of scenarios in which the eligibility software produces inaccurate determinations. Many were fixed amid a broader push in November to cure the site's faults.

One glitch separates applicants who are members of the same family into separate households when some or all members of the familysuch as childrendon't file taxes in some cases. That can result in some members being inaccurately assigned to Medicaid or denied coverage when they should be steered toward private plans.

The glitches mostly afflict the most complicated family arrangements. For instance, a record of tests performed on the system reviewed by The Wall Street Journal shows fourteen separate scenarios in which a couple, a child, and a former spouse all file as members of the same household.

CGI said it couldn't comment on client matters.

Few applicants appeared to be aware of the miscalculations. Only about 1,400 have appealed determinations, a person familiar with the matter said. HHS decline to comment on the number of appeals.

In Idaho, some single adults with incomes above the Medicaid threshold have told state officials that HealthCare.gov said they were likely eligible for Medicaid. State officials think some determinations are wrong, but "we don't have the data to verify," said Tom Shanahan, a spokesman for the state's health agency.

The 36 states that participate in the federally run exchange are only just beginning to receive Medicaid enrollment data from HHS, and some officials said they expect to identify more eligibility problems soon.

The problems with inaccurate eligibility problems reach back to before the launch of the troubled federal marketplace, The Wall Street Journal reported in September.

Louise Radnofsky and Spencer Ante contributed to this article.

One Of Our Favorite Liberals, Kirsten Powers, Has Her Health Insurance Cancelled Because Of ObamaCare


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is so true. How many of the 5+ million will not have health insurance on Jan 1, 2014?
> 
> I guess we, the taxpayers, will be paying for their medical care in the Emergency room.


Obamacare is a failure. It has made this country a mess and BO has divided us. Terrible.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Walmart has tax deferred retirement plans available to anyone meeting the minimum working requirement. Also profit sharing.
> Also a stock purchasing plan available for anyone. For example: If you buy $10 worth of stock per pay day they will add $2 or $3 more of stock. It can be sold at any time. At $10 a payday and if it is not sold, the value will increase as the value of stock in the stock market increases. Also it can lose, like any other stock on the stock market. It will pay dividends, if they are qualified dividends there will be no capital gains taxes for the majority of walmart employees.
> 
> *All breaks available to everyone. *


...but, by design, the majority of Americans cannot take advantage of them.

Very fair--not.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I am flattered that you copied my 'cultist' comments. I will try to come up with something else for you to copy.
> 
> Clinton had a body bag list. And that list did not even include the dead on the USS Cole, the first bombing of The Towers, the people at the aspirin factory that Clinton bombed during the vote for his impeachment. And the failure to take OBL which caused the deaths of 9/11
> 
> ...


You are such an idiot. There were 13 embassies attacked during the Bush administrations, well over 80 people killed, and the republicans never utter a word about them. Plus 4486 American soldiers killed in Iraq. Those all fall on the shoulders of the Bush administration.
As far as the Gettysburg address Ken Burns specifically asked the president to read from the Nicolay Version, which was written before the phrase under God was added. That is old news and here you are still talking about something that isn't true. The president didn't ask to read that version. You make yourself sound so stupid when you repeat this crap. You can research this and find many many stories about it, and yet you choose to tell a lie. I won't comment on all the other things you posted as most of them are too ridiculous to even get into. What is this with all the lies you republicans repeat and repeat. When you get together with your families do you tell all the lies like you do on this forum. Damm, that is one hell of a way to raise children. You should all be ashamed.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A married couple making $17,000 with 3 children (living with them) under 17 and filing married filing jointly will pay no income tax and get a refund of about $8,000. Why would they care if they pay a payroll tax of 7% since they have a refund of almost half of their earnings?
> 
> Then they are probably on Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and energy assistance. I think they are living very well.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A married couple making $17,000 with 3 children (living with them) under 17 and filing married filing jointly will pay no income tax and get a refund of about $8,000. Why would they care if they pay a payroll tax of 7% since they have a refund of almost half of their earnings?
> 
> Then they are probably on Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and energy assistance. I think they are living very well.


They are well below the poverty line. Since they make $17,000, someone must be paying taxes. 'And yes they probably have Medicaid, because they cannot afford medical insurance, and yes they probably get food stamps, to buy lobster, steak, caviar etc, and get assistance to heat their mansion. Talk about being a Grinch, you would probably deny them any assistance. Pull yourself by your boot staps, while we place a boot on your neck.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> What about the 'suicide' at Ft. Marcy?


Vince Foster committed suicide. It was ruled a suicide by multiple official investigations. If you have a conspiracy theory I don't care. They are a dime a dozen.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Walmart has tax deferred retirement plans available to anyone meeting the minimum working requirement. Also profit sharing.
> Also a stock purchasing plan available for anyone. For example: If you buy $10 worth of stock per pay day they will add $2 or $3 more of stock. It can be sold at any time. At $10 a payday and if it is not sold, the value will increase as the value of stock in the stock market increases. Also it can lose, like any other stock on the stock market. It will pay dividends, if they are qualified dividends there will be no capital gains taxes for the majority of walmart employees.
> 
> *All breaks available to everyone. *
> ...


Why are so many Walmart employees on assistance? Why did a Walmart put up bins so employees could help out other employees for Thanksgiving?
http://www.ilsr.org/new-study-finds-walmarts-miserly-wages-cost-taxpayers/


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare is a failure. It has made this country a mess and BO has divided us. Terrible.


Isn't that what you wanted? You want to see the ACA fail. So if it fails the Emergency Room will be in full swing and you will be paying even more for healthcare. You want to be proven right and see many more people suffer, than you can wish for it's failure. I hope for it's success so that people will not suffer. Way to go Joey and others, hoping for failure at any cost, even human lives and human suffering.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Are you saying that President Clinton ordered the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole? It was a terrorist attack by al-Qaeda. President Clinton killed no one. Are you saying President Clinton was responsible for the 1993 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center that killed 6 people and injured over 1,000? You must be referring to the Muslim terrorists who took responsibility for that attack. 
As for the aspirin plant...Opps...misinformation lead President Clinton to bomb and kill millions of innocent aspirin tablets....... But when you compare it to Bush starting a WAR that killed 189,000, not including civilians, by mistakenly believing (warmonger) that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which by the way, were never found. I'd say those aspirin got off pretty 
easy.

As for President Obama and the attack in Benghazi. If you want that argument to hold water, you'll first have to explain the 12 attacks that happened in Benghazi while Bush was president. In total, killing 60 people & wounding 64.

As for the rest of your garbage....Ohhh.... Boo-Hoo.....President Obama couldn't be at the site of all the floods, tsunamis, earthquakes & forest fires, and numerous other ACTS OF GOD! Sorry, can't blame him for that. The oil spill? Huh? Didn't you see it on TV? It was in all the news. I'm sure you didn't need the President to tell you about it. It's not like he was out there pouring oil in the ocean....That argument is pretty lame.

Well, it's official......President Obama didn't read the word GOD, when he was reading the Gettysburg Address.....So now we American's are all going to Hell!!! And had he read the word God, you would be complaining that he is forcing his religion on people.

The Nelson Mandela memorial was a celebration. You would have to condemn everyone who took part in it because they were dancing and singing and laughing... Would have looked pretty stupid if President Obama sat there staring at his hands looking solemn. President Mandela wanted his memorial to be a celebration. President Obama did nothing wrong.

To little to late on having meetings to get together to work on ACA. The Republicans have had years to do that with him, but avoided him like the plague, trying to stop it completely So, stop whining.

So it's okay to blame President Obama........but not Bush because his presidency was so long ago.....How forgiving you are with the Republicans....

No....you needn't bother posting anymore of your examples. Because like I said.....they are all biased.....It's apparent you don't nor have you ever had all the facts.....



lovethelake said:


> I am flattered that you copied my 'cultist' comments. I will try to come up with something else for you to copy.
> 
> Clinton had a body bag list. And that list did not even include the dead on the USS Cole, the first bombing of The Towers, the people at the aspirin factory that Clinton bombed during the vote for his impeachment. And the failure to take OBL which caused the deaths of 9/11
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Walmart has tax deferred retirement plans available to anyone meeting the minimum working requirement. Also profit sharing.
> Also a stock purchasing plan available for anyone. For example: If you buy $10 worth of stock per pay day they will add $2 or $3 more of stock. It can be sold at any time. At $10 a payday and if it is not sold, the value will increase as the value of stock in the stock market increases. Also it can lose, like any other stock on the stock market. It will pay dividends, if they are qualified dividends there will be no capital gains taxes for the majority of walmart employees.
> 
> *All breaks available to everyone. *
> ...


Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'

They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.

Mortgage deductions, retirement plans and savings, employer 401(K) plans, buying stocks and bonds are programs and transactions participated in and tools used by average Americans; not primarily the wealthy as Susanmos2000 stated.

No wonder the Libs hate anyone who has achieved the American dream!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oops....they must have conveniently forgotten that part... 


Cindy S said:


> If I remember correctly I think we need to add that he was pardoned by Gerald Ford before he could be charged!!!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'
> 
> They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.
> 
> ...


http://www.businessinsider.com/proof-republicans-really-are-dumber-than-democrats-2012-5


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

You have to say what exactly and precisely what you think the link betwen racial violence and unrest and MLK was. Then you have to expain how, exactly, the President is creating what you think is the same kind of polarizarion. While you're doing that you'll have to be sure you aren't up to your neck in raicist rhetoric. The fact that you didn't include your understanding of the link between MLK and racial violence that you developed many years later hints that you are just one more racist. There's nothing funy about your youthfil ignorance.


Knitry said:


> You know, it's a funny thing.
> 
> When I was very young, and not very well-informed (nor very interested in either history or current events), one thing I noted about Martin Luther King, Jr. in the several years before he was killed:
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I looked up Christopher Weaver, who wrote your article. Here's what I found. The only Date on it was Sept. 19, but with no year. The post he had before this one was Dec. 12, 2012. Don't want anyone saying I'm telling old news. I'm just pointing out what side of the fence he sits on.

Christopher Weaver says:
After much deliberation, and inside baseball with the speaker of the House's office...and with out permission from my family or dog, I have decided to run for the US Senate. Not that I can win, but I can split the conservative vote (along w/ the other drafted candidates and prompted NC senate benchwarmers) and clear the path for the Establishment Republicans.

Unbiased info? I think not. No shenanigans going on with the Republican's right? :thumbdown:



Lukelucy said:


> Politics and Policy
> 
> Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site
> 
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'
> 
> They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.
> 
> ...


KPG - You got it. I have thought that all along. I called them "gimmies". Thank you for your insight. That is exactly what they are.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Did you read that everybody?.....According to KPG, all libs are upset because we are poor and uneducated and envious of the average American. 
I have said before that I am an independent voter, and vote for the person I believe to be the most honest. 
I also told them that We own (outright), our own home, and vehicles, and 7 acres of land. And had our house built 15 yrs ago. My husband makes very good money. He works a blue collar job. And not a dime was ever given to us. We have what we have on our own merits. Does that sound like someone who is jealous of you???
You know what they said to me? Oh, you are just bragging. But they were the ones who accused me earlier of being jealous. I was just proving them wrong. I guess they have short memories.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'
> 
> They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Walmart has tax deferred retirement plans available to anyone meeting the minimum working requirement. Also profit sharing.
> Also a stock purchasing plan available for anyone. For example: If you buy $10 worth of stock per pay day they will add $2 or $3 more of stock. It can be sold at any time. At $10 a payday and if it is not sold, the value will increase as the value of stock in the stock market increases. Also it can lose, like any other stock on the stock market. It will pay dividends, if they are qualified dividends there will be no capital gains taxes for the majority of walmart employees.
> 
> *All breaks available to everyone. *
> ...


Actually, the breaks are not for everyone and often against the wealthy. For example, the estate tax and the limit on the amount you can deduct in mortgage interest. Then the gift tax, luxury taxes, etc.

Good thing the Libs on this thread aren't wealthy enough to hate themselves for losing out on paying those taxes that are only hits on the wealthy!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is so true. How many of the 5+ million will not have health insurance on Jan 1, 2014?
> 
> I guess we, the taxpayers, will be paying for their medical care in the Emergency room.


Na, uh. Susan says we all have until the end of March.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are right! In order to take advantage of the tax breaks, they need to WORK, and LEARN how to use their money wisely.
> 
> These are not for people, who are receiving Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and earned income credit. But why should they care they are not paying any tax.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You are right! In order to take advantage of the tax breaks, they need to WORK, and LEARN how to use their money wisely.
> 
> These are not for people, who are receiving Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and earned income credit. But why should they care they are not paying any tax.


Yep. Just as I know nothing from experience about Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and earned income credits, the wackadoodles no nothing from experience about all the things they are without (retirement and savings, stock/bonds, investments, business ownership, asset wealth, 401(K), estate taxes and home ownership, etc.)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Na, uh. Susan says we all have until the end of March.


*wiggle wiggle*

(Day 2)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Since about 50% of the people pay any tax, Only these people will be able to use the tax breaks. But why would you need a tax break to reduce a tax you don't pay.


I know, huh? Some people are just never pleased with what they have or are given.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

*Snicker-snicker*......


susanmos2000 said:


> *wiggle wiggle*
> And it's gotten so bad, they'll only post to each other, and not even respond to the truths in other posts....that's desperation.....lol.
> (Day 2)


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Then if you want to make it fair. Everyone pay 10%.
> No tax credits. No refundable tax credits.
> You complain about the minimum wage not being enough to live on. Lets make the tax fair and everyone pay 17%. 10% income tax and 7% payroll tax.
> 
> ...


That is exactly right. Life is not fair. The government is not there to take care of you. YOU are there to take care of YOU. Good post, Joey.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Actually, the breaks are not for everyone and often against the wealthy. For example, the estate tax and the limit on the amount you can deduct in mortgage interest. Then the gift tax, luxury taxes, etc.
> 
> Good thing the Libs on this thread aren't wealthy enough to hate themselves for losing out on paying those taxes that are only hits on the wealthy!


KPG, 
They are definitely jealous. It is so easy to see.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> *Snicker-snicker*......


Well, we have to get our ho-ho-ho's from somewhere...

'Tis the season!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, at least they have each other.....don't know if you'd call that a plus or a minus......but I think in their case they can't afford to be fussy..... :lol:


susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we have to get our ho-ho-ho's from somewhere...
> 
> 'Tis the season!


----------



## BluesChanteuse (Oct 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> If you don't think my information is correct, find a website that says what you think it should be. Please post it. I wonder what else we will find in Obamacare that will be a surprise.
> 
> Obamacare was sold as helping those who did not have insurance to get insurance. Then "good health care". It seems that instead of anyone having "good health care," we all may have "some health care."


It was not just sold as helping those who do not have insurance. It was also sold as something that would help people get away from "scam plans". You know, those kinds of plans that have high deductibles and co-pays and are seemingly catastrophic insurance. Except, when people go to use the insurance in a catastrophe, they find that they keep getting denied coverage that they THOUGHT they had and in order to get paid you have to spend months and months jumping through hoops, only to STILL find out that they won't pay out.

These are predatory insurance companies that prey on the relatively poor and lower middle class and then use all kinds of tricks and red tape to keep from ever paying out on ANYTHING.

There's nothing in Obamacare that is a surprise if people actually paid attention.

The only "plans" that have been VOLUNTARILY canceled by the insurance companies are the scam plans that in 2014 would have to stop scamming people under Obamacare and ACTUALLY have to start paying out.

So, actually the "surprise" was not from Obamacare, it was by the scam insurance companies.

Those plans were supposed to be "grandfathered" out. In other words, those insurance companies that cancelled them THIS year, WERE NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO this year. Their cancellation THIS year had nothing to do with Obamacare.

Those scam plans COULD'VE been sold this year, but it's the INSURANCE companies that preemptively cancelled them for no good reason.


----------



## BluesChanteuse (Oct 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> That is exactly right. Life is not fair. The government is not there to take care of you. YOU are there to take care of YOU. Good post, Joey.


Actually not quite true. The country has made a moral decision that if people need health care, they can go to the emergency room and get it and they can not be denied.

So, the only question is whether we have a system where people are charged 100,000 (or MUCH more) dollars from the emergency room for a relatively accident or illness, that they obviously can not pay, and therefore have to file for bankruptcy and therefore WE have to pay that $100,000 (or MUCH more). ...

or will we set up a system where most people can afford some modicum of health insurance (_which from US requires only pennies on the dollar in subsidies_), or will we be paying the $100,000 bankruptcy bill.

People don't seem to understand _we're already paying for other people's healthcare_. It's just that if people don't have health insurance it's much MORE expensive for US, than if they DID have health insurance.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ah......a voice of reason......THANK YOU!

Great Bette Davis avatar!


BluesChanteuse said:


> Actually not quite true. The country has made a moral decision that if people need health care, they can go to the emergency room and get it and they can not be denied.
> 
> So, the only question is whether we have a system where people are charged 100,000 (or MUCH more) dollars from the emergency room for a relatively accident or illness, that they obviously can not pay, and therefore have to file for bankruptcy and therefore WE have to pay that $100,000 (or MUCH more). ...
> 
> ...


----------



## BluesChanteuse (Oct 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Did you read that everybody?.....According to KPG, all libs are upset because we are poor and uneducated and envious of the average American.
> I have said before that I am an independent voter, and vote for the person I believe to be the most honest.
> I also told them that We own (outright), our own home, and vehicles, and 7 acres of land. And had our house built 15 yrs ago. My husband makes very good money. He works a blue collar job. And not a dime was ever given to us. We have what we have on our own merits. Does that sound like someone who is jealous of you???
> You know what they said to me? Oh, you are just bragging. But they were the ones who accused me earlier of being jealous. I was just proving them wrong. I guess they have short memories.


Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.

They don't seem to recognize, that if that's the case, they're not "average Americans", they're part of "the needy" they like to pretend they're separate from and "above".

I have always found that people who pontificate about work ethic, tend to be the laziest workers, and the one's that gripe the most about the "takers" ... are the very ones that have a HUGE chunk of gummint cheese in their rickety refrigerator.

I guarantee you, if we could get an HONEST assessment of who here depends the most on the government for their needs, it's the one's that whine about "the takers", that have suckled off the government teet more than anyone else.

Teapartiers are just one example of a group who complain about "the takers", but are mostly made up of a generation that benefited the MOST from governmental programs. Few have suckled more off the government teet than the average teapartier.

So whenever you see someone here talking about "the takers", picture them chewing on their gummint cheese, with "double wide" beehinds on smelly couch filled with cigarette burns, having not worked in YEARS and counting their food stamps, because the odds are, _they're_ the very ones that are on the gummint dole more than anyone else and are the very cliche's they foist upon everyone else and make Archie Bunker seem like a sophisticate in comparison.

In the meantime, I will continue on with my "yarn snobbery" and knit with quality yarns for charity even though I know it's these hypocrites that will be the ones that will most likely benefit from my "snobby" generosity.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm afraid I'd have to nominate KPG for that position. She's told so many fibs in the last seventy-two hours that it's impossible to keep count. Her snake imitation is precious...even Santa might be taken in. Who knows? Maybe he'll pop her in a sack, slap on a bow, and place her beneath Cruz's X-mas tree.


I do not believe that is even close to being true, but as a Dem you want to always associate with liars like Obama and Clinton.

Sad when 70% thinks our president is a liar. He lies over and over again. Benghazi murders were based on a Youtube video, economic problems because of a tsunami, there will be consequences for stepping over the red line, Al-Qaida is on the run, you can keep your doctor PERIOD, I'll check into the NSA scandal, I only read about the IRS scandal in the paper this morning, I will have the most transparent administration EVER,.......................


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Get some new material.......You're starting to repeat yourself.... That's the first sign of senility you know.


lovethelake said:


> I do not believe that is even close to being true, but as a Dem you want to always associate with liars like Obama and Clinton.
> 
> Sad when 70% thinks our president is a liar. He lies over and over again. Benghazi murders were based on a Youtube video, economic problems because of a tsunami, there will be consequences for stepping over the red line, Al-Qaida is on the run, you can keep your doctor PERIOD, I'll check into the NSA scandal, I only read about the IRS scandal in the paper this morning, I will have the most transparent administration EVER,.......................


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Are you saying that President Clinton ordered the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole? It was a terrorist attack by al-Qaeda. President Clinton killed no one. Are you saying President Clinton was responsible for the 1993 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center that killed 6 people and injured over 1,000? You must be referring to the Muslim terrorists who took responsibility for that attack.
> As for the aspirin plant...Opps...misinformation lead President Clinton to bomb and kill millions of innocent aspirin tablets....... But when you compare it to Bush starting a WAR that killed 189,000, not including civilians, by mistakenly believing (warmonger) that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which by the way, were never found. I'd say those aspirin got off pretty
> easy.
> 
> ...


Because the terrorists saw that Clinton was weak on defense and preoccupied with his sex scandal, yes I believe he was a huge reason we were attacked.

Bush did not lie and say that the dead in Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video, and he did not take a nap to get ready for a fund raiser as the ambassador was being murdered.

Considering how many times Obama praises Lincoln, one would think he would know the difference between a draft and the actual speech. Gosh for such a smart man, how could 36 other people get it right, and only he got it wrong? One would think someone on his brilliant staff would not have left that mistake happen. But I guess like the Obamacare mandate, he had to read the Gettysburg Address to know what is in the Gettysburg Address.

A celebration of life does not mean you act like a man child and take selfies of yourself. Sad when Michelle had to pull him out of that 'photo op'. When one celebrates a life you don't act like a frat boy and look like a fool. A celebration of a life should also be respectful

You assumed I was talking about meetings with Republicans, he hasn't done it in the past so had no false idea he would now. I was talking about Kathleen S. I guess a meeting a year is good enough.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

My bad BluesChanteuse ....You'll find joeysomma insists on having your name rank and web site if you are going to prove anything to her. But don't worry about it. She changes the rules to suit her needs......so no matter what you post, she'll find a reason why it isn't acceptable....
By the way joeysomma......it's a free country, BluesChanteuse can post on any subject she wants......not just yours.



joeysomma said:


> We were talking about taxes not insurance.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are right! In order to take advantage of the tax breaks, they need to WORK, and LEARN how to use their money wisely.
> 
> These are not for people, who are receiving Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and earned income credit. But why should they care they are not paying any tax.


They do pay taxes........if they have a job they pay tax, if they buy anything they pay tax.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Did you read that everybody?.....According to KPG, all libs are upset because we are poor and uneducated and envious of the average American.
> I have said before that I am an independent voter, and vote for the person I believe to be the most honest.
> I also told them that We own (outright), our own home, and vehicles, and 7 acres of land. And had our house built 15 yrs ago. My husband makes very good money. He works a blue collar job. And not a dime was ever given to us. We have what we have on our own merits. Does that sound like someone who is jealous of you???
> You know what they said to me? Oh, you are just bragging. But they were the ones who accused me earlier of being jealous. I was just proving them wrong. I guess they have short memories.


How dare you achieve anything, you are a Liberal/Independent, therefore by the RW decree you can not achieve the American dream.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> That is exactly right. Life is not fair. The government is not there to take care of you. YOU are there to take care of YOU. Good post, Joey.


As a Christian isn't it up to us to take care of people in need? Would you deny people food, clothing, shelter, healthcare? What should we do with the poor, homeless, struggling people in this country, through them in the trash? How about a jobs bill? How about putting people to work? the job creators are not creating enough jobs in this country, They are wealthier than ever, but the middle class suffers. If private companies will not put people to work, then let the government do it. It worked during the Depression.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, lucky for me I didn't know joeysomma, lovethelake, knitpresentgifts, & Jokim earlier in my life, or I may have ended up like them. Dependent on others, and just a bunch of angry posters, waiting for someone to give them theirs. Sorry to tell those of you posted above, but if you haven't gotten yours by your mid 50's, it probably won't happen, unless you win the lottery. The time to get ahead was when you were fresh out of high school. That's what my DH and I did. Save your nickles and dimes, and you'll be surprised at how much you end up with when you're heading for retirement. And the most important words to live by!......"If you can't pay for it......then don't buy it."


rocky1991 said:


> How dare you achieve anything, you are a Liberal/Independent, therefore by the RW decree you can not achieve the American dream.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BluesChanteuse said:


> Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.
> 
> They don't seem to recognize, that if that's the case, they're not "average Americans", they're part of "the needy" they like to pretend they're separate from and "above".
> 
> ...


Well said. I really enjoyed reading a sane comment. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why didn't you read the conversation before you made a comment?


Why don't you, for that matter. There are two or three conversations going on in this thread. Today I'm even seeing replies to posts made on page 6.


----------



## Carole Murphy (Sep 17, 2013)

BluesChanteuse said:


> Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.
> .


I never thought about the idea that I use acrylic because the other costs 50 cents more. I use it because I like it and have had hundreds of skeins donated to our charity (collection or what ever you call it ) work. Until I got onto this KP site I never had heard that acrylic was crappy.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's ok Joey......I was responding to something someone else had said.....I wasn't talking about taxes at all. All I was saying is that if I've learned anything useful in this life, it's that if you want to enjoy your later years, you need to save every dime so that some day you can afford to own your own home, and not be in debt. And IMO if you haven't accomplished this by your mid 50's, in this day and age, there prob. isn't a lot of time left to earn it. And I'm grateful that I don't have to worry about it. My husband and I have accomplished this, and don't have to worry about how we are going to make it through our old age. And I'm grateful to God and my husband for getting us there.

P.S. Well, good for you! I hate traveling...would rather stay at home and enjoy my family.



joeysomma said:


> I have no idea of who you are talking about in their 50's.
> 
> The conversation was about the under 50% that actually do not pay any income tax and get a refund. Then there are slightly more than 50 % that do pay income tax and are able to get tax breaks, but that there are no tax breaks for wealthy individuals that are not available to anyone else.
> 
> FYI: We were totally out of debt including having our home paid for and traveling the world by the time I was 40.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: We were totally out of debt including having our home paid for and traveling the world by the time I was 40.


 :thumbup: I like the way you think and live your life.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Politics and Policy
> 
> Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site
> 
> ...


Thank you, LL. As always, your post is very informative and eye-opening for those who are willing to see. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> You are such an idiot. There were 13 embassies attacked during the Bush administrations, well over 80 people killed, and the republicans never utter a word about them. Plus 4486 American soldiers killed in Iraq. Those all fall on the shoulders of the Bush administration.
> As far as the Gettysburg address Ken Burns specifically asked the president to read from the Nicolay Version, which was written before the phrase under God was added. That is old news and here you are still talking about something that isn't true. The president didn't ask to read that version. You make yourself sound so stupid when you repeat this crap. You can research this and find many many stories about it, and yet you choose to tell a lie. I won't comment on all the other things you posted as most of them are too ridiculous to even get into. What is this with all the lies you republicans repeat and repeat. When you get together with your families do you tell all the lies like you do on this forum. Damm, that is one hell of a way to raise children. You should all be ashamed.[/quote
> 
> Manners?..... language?..... hmm .......


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.

Are you saying that President Clinton ordered the terrorist bombing of the USS Cole? It was a terrorist attack by al-Qaeda. President Clinton killed no one. Are you saying President Clinton was responsible for the 1993 terrorist attack on the World Trade Center that killed 6 people and injured over 1,000? You must be referring to the Muslim terrorists who took responsibility for that attack.
As for the aspirin plant...Opps...misinformation lead President Clinton to bomb and kill millions of innocent aspirin tablets....... But when you compare it to Bush starting a WAR that killed 189,000, not including civilians, by mistakenly believing (warmonger) that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, which by the way, were never found. I'd say those aspirin got off pretty
easy.

As for President Obama and the attack in Benghazi. If you want that argument to hold water, you'll first have to explain the 12 attacks that happened in Benghazi while Bush was president. In total, killing 60 people & wounding 64.

As for the rest of your garbage....Ohhh.... Boo-Hoo.....President Obama couldn't be at the site of all the floods, tsunamis, earthquakes & forest fires, and numerous other ACTS OF GOD! Sorry, can't blame him for that. The oil spill? Huh? Didn't you see it on TV? It was in all the news. I'm sure you didn't need the President to tell you about it. It's not like he was out there pouring oil in the ocean....That argument is pretty lame.

Well, it's official......President Obama didn't read the word GOD, when he was reading the Gettysburg Address.....So now we American's are all going to Hell!!! And had he read the word God, you would be complaining that he is forcing his religion on people.

The Nelson Mandela memorial was a celebration. You would have to condemn everyone who took part in it because they were dancing and singing and laughing... Would have looked pretty stupid if President Obama sat there staring at his hands looking solemn. President Mandela wanted his memorial to be a celebration. President Obama did nothing wrong.

To little to late on having meetings to get together to work on ACA. The Republicans have had years to do that with him, but avoided him like the plague, trying to stop it completely So, stop whining.

So it's okay to blame President Obama........but not Bush because his presidency was so long ago.....How forgiving you are with the Republicans....

No....you needn't bother posting anymore of your examples. Because like I said.....they are all biased.....It's apparent you don't nor have you ever had all the facts.....



lovethelake said:


> Because the terrorists saw that Clinton was weak on defense and preoccupied with his sex scandal, yes I believe he was a huge reason we were attacked.
> 
> Bush did not lie and say that the dead in Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video, and he did not take a nap to get ready for a fund raiser as the ambassador was being murdered.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Politics and Policy
> 
> Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site
> 
> ...


Yes, I heard Kirsten Powers had her insurance cancelled, and I also heard her say that she is a Christian, with her extreme liberal views and all.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Vince Foster committed suicide. It was ruled a suicide by multiple official investigations. If you have a conspiracy theory I don't care. They are a dime a dozen.


We'll never know for sure, will we? :hunf:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'
> 
> They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.
> 
> ...


Seems that the left appeals to the baser instincts of human nature (hate, envy, etc.) to motivate and achieve their goals.
:thumbdown:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
If you don't think my information is correct, find a website that says what you think it should be. Please post it. I wonder what else we will find in Obamacare that will be a surprise.

Obamacare was sold as helping those who did not have insurance to get insurance. Then "good health care". It seems that instead of anyone having "good health care," we all may have "some health care."

It was not just sold as helping those who do not have insurance. It was also sold as something that would help people get away from "scam plans". You know, those kinds of plans that have high deductibles and co-pays and are seemingly catastrophic insurance. Except, when people go to use the insurance in a catastrophe, they find that they keep getting denied coverage that they THOUGHT they had and in order to get paid you have to spend months and months jumping through hoops, only to STILL find out that they won't pay out.

These are predatory insurance companies that prey on the relatively poor and lower middle class and then use all kinds of tricks and red tape to keep from ever paying out on ANYTHING.

There's nothing in Obamacare that is a surprise if people actually paid attention.

The only "plans" that have been VOLUNTARILY canceled by the insurance companies are the scam plans that in 2014 would have to stop scamming people under Obamacare and ACTUALLY have to start paying out.

So, actually the "surprise" was not from Obamacare, it was by the scam insurance companies.

Those plans were supposed to be "grandfathered" out. In other words, those insurance companies that cancelled them THIS year, WERE NOT REQUIRED TO DO SO this year. Their cancellation THIS year had nothing to do with Obamacare.

Those scam plans COULD'VE been sold this year, but it's the INSURANCE companies that preemptively cancelled them for no good reason.


Jokim said:


> Yes, I heard Kirsten Powers had her insurance cancelled, and I also heard her say that she is a Christian, with her liberal views and all.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That is exactly right. Life is not fair. The government is not there to take care of you. YOU are there to take care of YOU. Good post, Joey.

Actually not quite true. The country has made a moral decision that if people need health care, they can go to the emergency room and get it and they can not be denied.

So, the only question is whether we have a system where people are charged 100,000 (or MUCH more) dollars from the emergency room for a relatively accident or illness, that they obviously can not pay, and therefore have to file for bankruptcy and therefore WE have to pay that $100,000 (or MUCH more). ...

or will we set up a system where most people can afford some modicum of health insurance (which from US requires only pennies on the dollar in subsidies), or will we be paying the $100,000 bankruptcy bill.

People don't seem to understand we're already paying for other people's healthcare. It's just that if people don't have health insurance it's much MORE expensive for US, than if they DID have health insurance.


Nussa said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> If you don't think my information is correct, find a website that says what you think it should be. Please post it. I wonder what else we will find in Obamacare that will be a surprise.
> 
> Obamacare was sold as helping those who did not have insurance to get insurance. Then "good health care". It seems that instead of anyone having "good health care," we all may have "some health care."
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Seems that the left appeals to the baser instincts of human nature (hate, envy, etc.) to motivate and achieve their goals.
> :thumbdown:


I don't think they have goals, and if they do, don't achieve many if any of them. That would explain their bitterness, envy and ugliness.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

THANK YOU FOR NOTICING!!!! :thumbup:


joeysomma said:


> Good cut and paste! Two times even.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> 
> No I am not, and the only reason that I am replying is because if I did not your comment would have validity.
> 
> Making such an untrue accusation without proof is wrong and reveals your true lack of character in my opinion. But I guess you have to throw the 'race card' out there because you are so frustrated and exhausted at attempting to support an administration that is so flawed, corrupt and inept.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Could This New Congressional Resolution Lead to Impeachment of Obama?
> 
> _At the first of December the House Judiciary Committee held hearings about whether or not Barack Obama has upheld his oath of office by following and enforcing the laws of the land. It seems clear from that hearing that Obama has indeed broken his oath. South Carolina Congressman Trey Gowdy (R) asked pertinent questions with regard to the issue at hand. Now, his colleague, South Carolina Representative Tom Rice (R), is set to file a resolution to direct Congress to bring a civil action for declaratory or injunctive relief to challenge certain policies and actions taken by the executive branch. This could inevitably lead to impeachment of Barack Obama
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, lucky for me I didn't know joeysomma, lovethelake, knitpresentgifts, & Jokim earlier in my life, or I may have ended up like them. Dependent on others, and just a bunch of angry posters, waiting for someone to give them theirs. Sorry to tell those of you posted above, but if you haven't gotten yours by your mid 50's, it probably won't happen, unless you win the lottery. The time to get ahead was when you were fresh out of high school. That's what my DH and I did. Save your nickles and dimes, and you'll be surprised at how much you end up with when you're heading for retirement. And the most important words to live by!......"If you can't pay for it......then don't buy it."


Most of us here have saved for our later years. But what we do have is a gift from God we on this earth own nothing.It was a gift from God. He owns it all not us. If you are blessed like you say you are you owe thanks to God that he gave you the wisdom to do that. You come on this earth with nothing and you leave this earth with nothing. What you are given in between is your blessing from God. Not because of what you do or don't do.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> ...


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

BluesChanteuse said:


> Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.
> 
> They don't seem to recognize, that if that's the case, they're not "average Americans", they're part of "the needy" they like to pretend they're separate from and "above".
> 
> ...


Wow crappy yarn who made you the judge? Most people on here can not afford your richy yarn. But God Bless them even with out the money one needs to afford yarn they still think of others and make things for charity. They give with their hearts not with money. God Bless them. 
Crappy yarn and spending 50 cents more. Unless on sale most better yarns cost a lot more. I am blessed that I can afford more expensive yarns. Does not make me better then those who can only buy what you call crappy yarn. no no no.

Also most charitys ask you to use that crappy yarn as you call it. 
As to using goverment for ones needs, I have notice that a few on the left use and need goverment help. They have to as they have had illness that have cause them to need help so does that mean they are living off the dole? You mouth the words of one who thinks she is above all and knows it all. 
You who have been blessed have no right or left to judge what people need.

It's called a help up not a hand out. There are many in this nation who live on the dole. But there are many who need a hand up. So you feel the need to judge all with your post. If this government would go through and check the needs of those who need help and don't I think you would find that there are more living off the government than have too. If they did I would think then we would have enough to take care of those who truly need help.

But I do love that you think only people on the right are living on the dole. Most people on here right or left take care of themselves and do not expect the government to care for them. 
I do recieve SS, but after working and putting my money into what you deem the dole? I work for it it is mine and I do expect to recieve it back. Wonder how many died before they even see all the money they have put in to SS.

Glad you can live on the throne and judge all. Good luck with that.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God. Hebrews 13:16 For God so loved the world, He gave his only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. John 3:16


you do not know what others give.

It also says in the bible you quote. Judge not less yea be judged.

I hope you are living the words you quote.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Seems a few of you should have been in church with me where the sermon was about people with a holier than thou attitude.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's unfathomable that you won't admit that much of the criticism leveled at Obama is due to the fact that he happens to be African-American. Take a few moments to scan the comments beneath those ultra-right wing articles you gals love to site--how often are the words "ghetto trash" "********" and "n-gger" employed? Are these really examples of hating the policies but not the man?


Oh not again with the racist remarks. It all stems from the fact that he and his policys have been a lie and wrong. It has nothing to do with what race he is.

I don't care what color a person is but I do expect The man who holds the high office of President to be honest and help this country not divide it. 
None and I mean none who have been elected to be President have done the right thing all of the time. But this man has repeatedly lied than to cover one lie to save face lies again. He does not take responsibillty for what he has done wrong . He blames anyone or anything for it.

He announces at a press conference that the buck stop with him for all that went wrong with the ACA. Then goes to a politcal rally and says it is all the other party's fault. That to me is lieing.

Who ever it was how started the racist quote has to be the dumbist person there ever was. Then to have others join in the racist theme is beyond me. 
I am not saying there are not racist in this world. But to blame the whole party for a few who are, is simply the stupidist statement I have ever heard.
I think if one would truly look at all parties one could find racist on both sides.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Actually it's the other way around. If you reply, and you have, to an acusation that's only an opinion, you lower yourself to the supossed level of the person who made the accusation and give it the validity it didn't have before you replied.


lovethelake said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I am not saying there are not racist in this world. But to blame the whole party for a few who are, is simply the stupidist statement I have ever heard.


A few? Either that handful gets around on the Internet or there are far more than you're willing to admit--there hasn't been one of those wacky articles sited (Obama the pimp, Obama the drug user, Obama in a gay tryst) that isn't followed by a comments that would make a real Christian blush. Doesn't it trouble you that your political agenda is the same as those who refer to Michelle and her girls as "n-gger b-tches"?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> A few? Either that handful gets around on the Internet or there are far more than you're willing to admit--there hasn't been one of those wacky articles sited (Obama the pimp, Obama the drug user, Obama in a gay tryst) that isn't followed by a comments that would make a real Christian blush. Doesn't it trouble you that your political agenda is the same as those who refer to Michelle and her girls as "n-gger b-tches"?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## jazzyjude123 (Dec 14, 2011)

What happened to knitting? Helping each other,and tolerance.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!

http://12daysofcongress.tumblr.com/


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Most of us here have saved for our later years. But what we do have is a gift from God we on this earth own nothing.It was a gift from God. He owns it all not us. If you are blessed like you say you are you owe thanks to God that he gave you the wisdom to do that. You come on this earth with nothing and you leave this earth with nothing. What you are given in between is your blessing from God. Not because of what you do or don't do.


Amen!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh not again with the racist remarks. It all stems from the fact that he and his policys have been a lie and wrong. It has nothing to do with what race he is.
> 
> I don't care what color a person is but I do expect The man who holds the high office of President to be honest and help this country not divide it.
> None and I mean none who have been elected to be President have done the right thing all of the time. But this man has repeatedly lied than to cover one lie to save face lies again. He does not take responsibillty for what he has done wrong . He blames anyone or anything for it.
> ...


 :thumbup: That is the Libs/Progs' agenda; when you're down and out, failing and wrong; cry racism and hope it sticks.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Last week the United States Taxpayers purchased helicopters from Russia to give to the Afgan Security Force. We nolonger need to just send our jobs overseas. Our Government just shops and drops. Does the trist between Boeing and this administration ring a bell? Looks like ObamaClause came early for Russia and Afganistan. Merry christmas


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Cindy S said:
> 
> 
> > Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!
> ...


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!
> 
> http://12daysofcongress.tumblr.com/


 :-D


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Where is the website to back your claim? I have not heard of your claims? scam insurance???


Joey it must be wonderful living in your alternate universe. Never hearing about insurance policies that in effect cover nothing. being dropped because you havecost the insurance company too much money. Your benefits run out. You have a deductible of $10,000. Your world seems so much nicer than reality.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Why didn't you read the conversation before you made a comment?


I do, but you change the parameters at your will. You leave a narrow margin of what you will accept or regject.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

galinipper said:


> Last week the United States Taxpayers purchased helicopters from Russia to give to the Afgan Security Force. We nolonger need to just send our jobs overseas. Our Government just shops and drops. Does the trist between Boeing and this administration ring a bell? Looks like ObamaClause came early for Russia and Afganistan. Merry christmas


The Cost... $1 billion...fresh of the press.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't think they have goals, and if they do, don't achieve many if any of them. That would explain their bitterness, envy and ugliness.


Ridiculous comment. Such a gross exaggeration. Nothing is ever 100%. Don't let reality ruin your day.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!
> 
> http://12daysofcongress.tumblr.com/


Great!!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Cindy S said:
> 
> 
> > Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!
> ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Most of us here have saved for our later years. But what we do have is a gift from God we on this earth own nothing.It was a gift from God. He owns it all not us. If you are blessed like you say you are you owe thanks to God that he gave you the wisdom to do that. You come on this earth with nothing and you leave this earth with nothing. What you are given in between is your blessing from God. Not because of what you do or don't do.


You are so right, Yarnie! :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Seems a few of you should have been in church with me where the sermon was about people with a holier than thou attitude.


Or maybe they should come over to my place for hot beverages and cookies this afternoon.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Could you please send a few strong guys over to help me off the floor? I am ROFLMBO from this AND the Repub version, not to mention the silent monks.:XD: :XD:


galinipper said:


> Cindy S said:
> 
> 
> > Enjoy (at least some of you) Merry Christmas!!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> More ways to fix what SOME feel is not enough people paying federal income tax: Raise the minimum wage, and create lots more jobs by passing a real jobs bill, and quit trying to destroy unions, which have the effect of helping create a middle class and raising incomes for all workers.


Those are "fixes" that do nothing for the for the worker but give them the false sense that they are improving their lot in life. You are calling for other people to do something for them, instead of them doing for themselves. It's just the same old same old of don't worry the government and the unions will take care of you. God forbid they should actually do something to improve their own lives. All you are advocating is for them to wait for their ship to come in, while you throw them ice cubes and call that a life saver.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is the first time I have seen some of the words you used on KP.


What a nasty and vulgar person she is speaking those words that no one but her used. A pig has more manners.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I have a great fondness for hymns, and this is one of my favorites. Wish I knew how to include the tune.Maybe there's a video on youtube...

In Christ there is no East or West

In Christ there is no East or West,
In Him no South or North;
But one great fellowship of love
Throughout the whole wide earth.

In Him shall true hearts everywhere
Their high communion find;
His service is the golden cord,
Close binding humankind.

Join hands, then, members of the faith,
Whatever your race may be!
Who serves my Father as His child
Is surely kin to me.

In Christ now meet both East and West,
In Him meet North and South;
All Christly souls are one in Him
Throughout the whole wide earth.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> A few? Either that handful gets around on the Internet or there are far more than you're willing to admit--there hasn't been one of those wacky articles sited (Obama the pimp, Obama the drug user, Obama in a gay tryst) that isn't followed by a comments that would make a real Christian blush. Doesn't it trouble you that your political agenda is the same as those who refer to Michelle and her girls as "n-gger b-tches"?


I've never heard o referred to in the terms you describe, nor his wife or daughters. What do you read that you are exposed to such trash? I suppose your side is innocent of such comments about leaders on the right.
:thumbdown:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare is a failure. It has made this country a mess and BO has divided us. Terrible.


This has nothing to do with healthcare. The republicans have divided us because of their hatred of Barack Obama and their desire to make him fail with no regards for this country. If there is a mess, it is their doing, not Barack Obama's.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I've never heard o referred to in the terms you describe, nor his wife or daughters. What do you read that you are exposed to such trash? I suppose your side is innocent of such comments about leaders on the right.
> :thumbdown:


Neither me. She just likes to incite.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

In this day and age, you think a family of 5 living on $17,000, regardless of the assistance they get, is living pretty well. Are you insane? These kind of statements only prove your ignorance. OMG


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> As a Christian isn't it up to us to take care of people in need? Would you deny people food, clothing, shelter, healthcare? What should we do with the poor, homeless, struggling people in this country, through them in the trash? How about a jobs bill? How about putting people to work? the job creators are not creating enough jobs in this country, They are wealthier than ever, but the middle class suffers. If private companies will not put people to work, then let the government do it. It worked during the Depression.


What would be in a jobs bill if you wrote one? How would you create jobs?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

BluesChanteuse said:


> Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.
> 
> They don't seem to recognize, that if that's the case, they're not "average Americans", they're part of "the needy" they like to pretend they're separate from and "above".
> 
> ...


Just what this thread was missing - bringing yarn PREFERENCES into the definition of social responsibility and political affiliation :!:

Not all acrylics and blends are cheap - some are quite a bit more expensive than wool. Man made fibers can be as soft or softer than natural fibers. Some people are sensitive to wool (anywhere from a mild itch to severe exzema) and some are sensitive to man made fibers. We all make choices based on what suits our budgets, purposes, and end use of the project.

Your negative and mean spirited attitude says a lot more about how you look at the world around you than slamming people who use their hands to create something useful from their hearts.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, lucky for me I didn't know joeysomma, lovethelake, knitpresentgifts, & Jokim earlier in my life, or I may have ended up like them. Dependent on others, and just a bunch of angry posters, waiting for someone to give them theirs. Sorry to tell those of you posted above, but if you haven't gotten yours by your mid 50's, it probably won't happen, unless you win the lottery. The time to get ahead was when you were fresh out of high school. That's what my DH and I did. Save your nickles and dimes, and you'll be surprised at how much you end up with when you're heading for retirement. And the most important words to live by!......"If you can't pay for it......then don't buy it."


If you would stop pounding your chest for a bit, you would have learned that that is exactly what those ladies have done. They worked for what they have, as have I, and now you have admitted working for what you have as well. All in all, you are not that different than us.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Carole Murphy said:


> I never thought about the idea that I use acrylic because the other costs 50 cents more. I use it because I like it and have had hundreds of skeins donated to our charity (collection or what ever you call it ) work. Until I got onto this KP site I never had heard that acrylic was crappy.


Most acrylic isn't crappy at all and I think most people are very grateful to receive the items your charity makes


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I watched some more of the questioning of Kathleen Sebelius that was done last Wed. Again you can tell weather a person is democrat or republican just by how nasty and rude they are. The republicans show no respect to anyone that doesn't believe as they do. One rep from Kentucky asked her how many pages of regulations there were in the ACA. She said she didn't have that information with her, but she would get it for him. He said well, can you estimate. She said she didn't want to do that, but she would get the info for him. He said can you estimate from 0 to ? how many there are. Again she said I will get that information for you. He said can you give me a range that you think it is in. Again she said no, I will get that information for you. I wanted her to stand up and say, What part of no don't you understand, or better yet, what the hell is wrong with you. She didn't, she was very courteous to him. 

Another complained that the bill was passed in the "dead of night" and that they were not allowed to add any amendments to it from the floor of the house, which of course wasn't a question, just talking points. After he was done, a democrat was able to speak and said when the Part D drug plan was passed, they were not allowed to add any amendments to it from the floor of the house, and after it was voted on and he left the building the sun was coming up, so guess what it was passed in the "dead of night," which brings up my favorite word for republicans, HYPOCRITE.
It is ok when they do it, but no one else had better try.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If you would stop pounding your chest for a bit, you would have learned that that is exactly what those ladies have done. They worked for what they have, as have I, and now you have admitted working for what you have as well. All in all, you are not that different than us.


Actually, I bought my first (new) house at 26 when single and sold it after I think about eight years and got $40K back at closing even though the housing market was in the tank and I sold it for less than I paid for it. I understand how to properly pre-pay a mortgage and not pay all the thousands of $ in interest that a buyer promises to pay.

Besides, who knows what one's compensation is, the house cost purchased, the equity and $ in one's savings/retirements/bank/investments accounts, the assets possessed, etc. Frankly, who cares either?

In my adult life, I've never depended on anyone other than myself for the things I've been blessed with during my lifetime thus far.

Someone's net worth isn't a reason to celebrate or brag.

The character of a person to earn and work for what they possess and do with her life is what should be complimented and admired.

P.S. Nussa's 'most important words to live by' have a lot to be desired. Life is not all about the almighty $ and material possessions.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a nasty and vulgar person she is speaking those words that no one but her used. A pig has more manners.


So sad, isn't it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Seems a few of you should have been in church with me where the sermon was about people with a holier than thou attitude.


And some just go to church to impress others.

Some don't attend church and have more faith then those who seem to have all the answers and don't even understand the meaning of Christ words.

Faith has nothing to do with the church faith is the belief that God is God and Christ did die for our sins. The Holy Spirit is the one who leads us to that faith. Unless the minister of said church is led by the Bible he is preaching empty words.

So one can sit in a church and be empty and preach how others should be or one can go by faith and see what others really are.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG - You got it. I have thought that all along. I called them "gimmies". Thank you for your insight. That is exactly what they are.


You got it wrong again. The rich farmers that "take" subsidies from the federal government, are they partaking in the 'gimmies." The big oil companies taking subsidies, are they partaking in the "gimmies." The republican representatives and senators that voted no for Sandy relief, then sat with their hands out when their state experienced a natural disaster, are they taking "gimmies." You think republicans don't take advantage of every tax break, legal or not, that they can. Sounds like "gimmies."

You are sitting on your "Holier Than Thow Perch," looking down your nose at your fellow Americans because why, you think you are better than the rest? Some day you will have a rude awaking to find out you are not. A good Christian you definitely are NOT.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> And some just go to church to impress others.
> 
> Some don't attend church and have more faith then those who seem to have all the answers and don't even understand the meaning of Christ words.
> 
> ...


And your response is not preaching??? You worship your way and I will worship my way, okay?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> I watched some more of the questioning of Kathleen Sebelius that was done last Wed. Again you can tell weather a person is democrat or republican just by how nasty and rude they are. The republicans show no respect to anyone that doesn't believe as they do. One rep from Kentucky asked her how many pages of regulations there were in the ACA. She said she didn't have that information with her, but she would get it for him. He said well, can you estimate. She said she didn't want to do that, but she would get the info for him. He said can you estimate from 0 to ? how many there are. Again she said I will get that information for you. He said can you give me a range that you think it is in. Again she said no, I will get that information for you. I wanted her to stand up and say, What part of no don't you understand, or better yet, what the hell is wrong with you. She didn't, she was very courteous to him.
> 
> Another complained that the bill was passed in the "dead of night" and that they were not allowed to add any amendments to it from the floor of the house, which of course wasn't a question, just talking points. After he was done, a democrat was able to speak and said when the Part D drug plan was passed, they were not allowed to add any amendments to it from the floor of the house, and after it was voted on and he left the building the sun was coming up, so guess what it was passed in the "dead of night," which brings up my favorite word for republicans, HYPOCRITE.
> It is ok when they do it, but no one else had better try.


That's the go to reply for any "official" in this administration. Present in any of the hearings lately. I don't have that information and will get back to you. Give it a rest. She, or at least her office, should know how many regulations are in the ACA and that info should be readily available. Her office is responsible for implementing them.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Did you read that everybody?.....According to KPG, all libs are upset because we are poor and uneducated and envious of the average American.
> I have said before that I am an independent voter, and vote for the person I believe to be the most honest.
> I also told them that We own (outright), our own home, and vehicles, and 7 acres of land. And had our house built 15 yrs ago. My husband makes very good money. He works a blue collar job. And not a dime was ever given to us. We have what we have on our own merits. Does that sound like someone who is jealous of you???
> You know what they said to me? Oh, you are just bragging. But they were the ones who accused me earlier of being jealous. I was just proving them wrong. I guess they have short memories.


They have no memory unless it benefits them and makes them look good. They do not pay attention to the truth, as it usually doesn't show them in a good light. The truth usually shows them as hypocrites and non christian.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep. Just as I know nothing from experience about Medicaid, food stamps, rent assistance, and earned income credits, the wackadoodles no nothing from experience about all the things they are without (retirement and savings, stock/bonds, investments, business ownership, asset wealth, 401(K), estate taxes and home ownership, etc.)


There you go again bragging about how important and smart you think you are. Just show how insecure you are.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> And your response is not preaching??? You worship your way and I will worship my way, okay?


no more than when you preach that one should be in your church listening to your minster.

So I can have my say as well. :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> no more than when you preach that one should be in your church listening to your minster.
> 
> So I can have my say as well. :thumbup:


They are twisting the facts again. Such negative, inaccurate perception!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BluesChanteuse said:


> Don't worry. Some of these people are the very same people who say they have to knit with really cheap crappy yarn for charities because they can't afford to spend 50cents more for a higher quality of yarn for the needy.
> 
> They don't seem to recognize, that if that's the case, they're not "average Americans", they're part of "the needy" they like to pretend they're separate from and "above".
> 
> ...


You are so right. So many of the complainers about the government hand outs and now run a business or have somehow "made it' so to speak, are also the ones who received government loans or grants in getting their business started, but now seem to forget that. We heard a lot of that during the re-election campaign. Republicans need to think before they speak, or they may get bit in the butt.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Just what this thread was missing - bringing yarn PREFERENCES into the definition of social responsibility and political affiliation :!:


 :-D Here we go again ...


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :-D Here we go again ...


I think racism could make it into the mix also.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Or did it already, long over due if not.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I have proof.......all anyone has to do is go back and read your posts, and put 2 & 2 together. And the only thing that counts in my post, is MY opinion.....


lovethelake said:


> Nussa said:
> 
> 
> > It's official in my eyes.....YOU ARE A RACIST....Some one had told me that earlier....but I like to decide those things for myself.....I've decided.
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Doesn't your neck ever get sore from crawling behind your friends with your head so far up their butts???? 
You have no real thoughts of your own do you???


knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: To what you said and :thumbdown: to whatever she said.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

If you go back and re-read my post, you will see that I did thank God & my husband for everything we have. 
And you're right. In truth, we are only being allowed to use this earth to live on. We never really own anything. When we die, the only thing we have left is our faith in God. Nothing else will matter.



theyarnlady said:


> Most of us here have saved for our later years. But what we do have is a gift from God we on this earth own nothing.It was a gift from God. He owns it all not us. If you are blessed like you say you are you owe thanks to God that he gave you the wisdom to do that. You come on this earth with nothing and you leave this earth with nothing. What you are given in between is your blessing from God. Not because of what you do or don't do.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Most acrylic isn't crappy at all and I think most people are very grateful to receive the items your charity makes


Acrylic yarn comes in so many forms (feels) not to mention prices, that the people on the receiving end do quite well by receiving quality items made with love.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> That is exactly right. Life is not fair. The government is not there to take care of you. YOU are there to take care of YOU. Good post, Joey.
> 
> Actually not quite true. The country has made a moral decision that if people need health care, they can go to the emergency room and get it and they can not be denied.
> 
> ...


Not the country but the democrats made the choice of health care.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You don't need to use any of those words to be a racist. I said I came to that conclusion after having reviewed her posts. She may not come right out and say it, but in my opinion, it's implied. I don't expect anyone else to take my word as gospel. I was making a personal observation. Everyone should know, that what you say, defines who you are. Yes, we all say stupid things at times. But I am just saying that she is so dead set on persecuting President Obama, and by the posts she has used, and words she has said, I believe she is upset because he is a black man. Again I will say......this is just my opinion. Which I believe I'm allowed by the Constitution to have.


susanmos2000 said:


> It's unfathomable that you won't admit that much of the criticism leveled at Obama is due to the fact that he happens to be African-American. Take a few moments to scan the comments beneath those ultra-right wing articles you gals love to site--how often are the words "ghetto trash" "********" and "n-gger" employed? Are these really examples of hating the policies but not the man?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So if that family of 5 has rent assistance, food stamps, Medicaid and maybe energy assistance and $8000 in federal tax refund in addition to the $17,000 What else do they need money for?
> 
> Maybe $400 for rent, $300 electricity, heat, and house phone per month. That still leaves $1300 a month. Oh, but I forgot they *need* cable TV, internet, I- phones, Brand name clothes and shoes, wide screen HD TV's just to live. *NOT!!!*
> 
> I did forget the vehicle and gas for work.


It's unbelievable that you believe that $17,000 for a family of five is doable even though they get assistance. Not everyone has an I Phone, cable TV, or wide screen TV. You generalize too much.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

LTL said: Considering how many times Obama praises Lincoln, one would think he would know the difference between a draft and the actual speech. Gosh for such a smart man, how could 36 other people get it right, and only he got it wrong? One would think someone on his brilliant staff would not have left that mistake happen. But I guess like the Obamacare mandate, he had to read the Gettysburg Address to know what is in the Gettysburg Address.

I guess republicans need to read the Gettysburg Address to know what is in the Gettysburg Address, especially the original that is held by the Library of Congress.
Are you unable to read or are you just ignorant or both? He was asked to read, by Ken Burns, the Nicolay Version, which was written before the phrase under God was added. There are 5 versions of the address and 2 of them do not have the words "under God" in them. 

On November 19, right-wing radio host Chris Plante accused Obama of omitting the phrase "under God" from his recitation of the Gettysburg Address. Other conservative media outlets like the Drudge Report, The Daily Caller, and National Review Online's The Corner promptly ran with the story. The right-wing media's rush to hysteria and ignorance of the facts in this case is ironic: Burns' project is called LEARN THE ADDRESS. The Daily Caller acknowledged the error in an update to its original post, and National Review Online's The Corner also published an update to its original post. 

The remaining version that omits "under God" is the Hay Copy, which the Gettysburg Foundation pegs as probably the closest in phrasing to what Lincoln actually said. It was either written down just before or just after the speech itself. Many of the Burns project's participants, however, read from the Bliss copy, which is undoubtedly the most popular of the five. That copy is in the Lincoln Bedroom. 


Maybe the republicans need to do just that, LEARN THE ADDRESS, before they do so much complaining and show their ignorance.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Kind of hard to take seriously anyone who uses the word (wackadoodles) to describe someone she doesn't agree with.


NJG said:


> There you go again bragging about how important and smart you think you are. Just show how insecure you are.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> As a Christian isn't it up to us to take care of people in need? Would you deny people food, clothing, shelter, healthcare? What should we do with the poor, homeless, struggling people in this country, through them in the trash? How about a jobs bill? How about putting people to work? the job creators are not creating enough jobs in this country, They are wealthier than ever, but the middle class suffers. If private companies will not put people to work, then let the government do it. It worked during the Depression.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Kind of hard to take seriously anyone who uses the word (wackadoodles) to describe someone she doesn't agree with.


I think it's a pretty innocuous word to describe someone we don't agree with. It shows restraint and civility and is better than using mean and nasty names.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have no idea of who you are talking about in their 50's.
> 
> The conversation was about the under 50% that actually do not pay any income tax and get a refund. Then there are slightly more than 50 % that do pay income tax and are able to get tax breaks, but that there are no tax breaks for wealthy individuals that are not available to anyone else.
> 
> FYI: We were totally out of debt including having our home paid for and traveling the world by the time I was 40.


Well, lets all do the happy dance, another bragging republican.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I think it's a pretty innocuous word to describe someone we don't agree with. It shows restraint and civility and is better than using mean and nasty names.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not crappy. It is wonderful for charity work. The recipients may not know how to take care of the more expensive yarns. Wouldn't it be terrible to go through the trouble and expense to make a wool/alpaca hat and have someone wash it in hot water and then have it thrown away if it shrinks. Acrylics may be a little rough to work with, but they wear like iron and get softer with washing.
> 
> Please ignore and continue knitting. There are many needy people that are looking for a hat or scarf that only you can make.


Showing a little snobbery there Joey--It is wonderful for charity work!!!!! It is wonderful for more than charity work. I have ordered some 100% wool that was described as soft, but was very harsh. Also you know "those people" won't know how to take of the more expensive yarns. If you put care instructions with it, even "those people" can take care of it. You don't need to assume anything else about people in need.

Sometimes you have to read between the lines with these conservatives to get their true meaning.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> NJG said:
> 
> 
> > You are such an idiot. There were 13 embassies attacked during the Bush administrations, well over 80 people killed, and the republicans never utter a word about them. Plus 4486 American soldiers killed in Iraq. Those all fall on the shoulders of the Bush administration.
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> We'll never know for sure, will we? :hunf:


Hear are some more questions we will never know have answered. These are some GOOD questions.

1) If Republicans are so fiscally responsible, why was President Eisenhower (in the 1950′s) the last Republican president to balance the budget?

2) If President Reagan was such a fiscally conservative hero, why did he quadruple our national debt during his eight years in the White House?

3) If tax breaks are the main driving force behind job creation, how would we create jobs once tax rates were reduced to practically zero?

4) If socialized health care is so awful, why does every country that leads the world in life expectancy have socialized health care?

5) If you support the freedom of religion (as per our Constitution), and my church recognizes gay marriage, isnt your support for the banning of same-sex marriage an attack on my religions First Amendment rights?

6) Whats more realistic? 1) That an entire region of the United States that supported slavery in the late-1800′s and support segregation in the 1950′s and 60′s suddenly stopped being racist, or 2) The racist southern Democrats in the south became Republicans during the 50′s and 60′s when the Republican party shifted toward an idea called the Southern Strategy, where the GOP appealed to the racism in southern whites who didnt like African Americans voting for Democrats.

7) If taxes are at some of their lowest levels in history, and the wealthiest in this country are richer than ever, why hasnt the growth in the wealth of the middle class matched that of the top 2%?

8) If our Founding Fathers wanted this nation to be based on Christianity, why dont the words Christian or Christianity appear even once in our Constitution?

9) If a Republican president reduced massive job losses in the midst of the worst recession in nearly a century by more than 50% in his first 4 months in office; presided over 44 consecutive months of private-sector job growth creating nearly 8 million jobs; killed Osama bin Ladin; saw stock markets reach all-time highs; saved the American auto industry; increased domestic oil production to highs not seen since the late-90′s and championed the largest year-to-year deficit reductions since World War II, would your party not be calling him a hero and a legend?

10) If Jesus spent his life helping the poor and the needy, how does it make sense that a party which claims to be for Christian values continues to cut funding for programs that help the poor and the needy?

Oh I found some more questions. Could you answer these too please.

Republicans say that the public sector cant create jobs. If so, who created so many of the jobs at Boeing, Lockheed, and Caterpillar? The tooth fairy?
Republicans claim the way to a better economy is through more tax cuts to the wealthy job creators. The Bush tax cuts amount to $60 billion in tax cuts a year. Where are the jobs?
You say Obama is cutting $500 billion in Medicare for seniors. What specifically are those cuts?
Why do we need insurance companies?
We understand the need for doctors, drugs, and hospitals; but what do insurance companies do for healthcare? We are the only nation on earth that allows a profit on people getting sick.
How do we expect our children to compete with Asian students, when their children go to school over 220 days a year while Missouris children go a national low of 174?
Japanese children go 235 days a year. This means Japanese children graduate from high school with an equivalent of 4 years more education than our children.
You complain constantly about people who wont work, but instead choose to be on welfare. If welfare recipients are doing that, they are breaking the law. What is your plan to prosecute these law breakers?
The US Supreme Court has ruled state governments can age discriminate against state employees. In additon, they are not bound to pay overtime or the federal minimum wage. Do you agree with the court?
Former Republican National Committee head, Michael Steele, said only private industry can create jobs. In addition to insulting teachers, policemen, librarians, and firemen, does that mean the people at Boeing and Emerson Electric, working on defense contracts, are not worthy?
America uses 26 percent of the world oil production, while we only have 2.2 percent of the worlds known reserves. How does the Republican plan of drill baby drill meet our needs?
In Representative Paul Ryans (R-WI) budget, the Republican made drastic changes to Medicare by privatizing it and charging every future recipient $6,500 a year or more for Medicare coverage. Republicans then boldly told Americans it was a better plan. If it was a better plan, why werent current Medicare recipients offered this new better plan?
Why do you allow payday loan scam artists to charge Missourians up to 1950 percent interest? Congress had to step in and mandate our soldiers could not be charged more than 36 percent. Yet, Republicans have blocked legislation to cap interest at 36 percent for the rest of Missourians. Seventeen other states have a 36 percent cap on all loans. Why not Missouri?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't think they have goals, and if they do, don't achieve many if any of them. That would explain their bitterness, envy and ugliness.


There you go again, sitting on your Holier Than Thow perch and looking down you nose at rest of society. Shame on you, you are not a christian.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You're a bit behind the times Loloweygirl. (Back on page 39) I was the first one to tell this post what, and how my family worked hard to earn what we have. And that I was proud of what we had attained in our 50 some years. And I was told by, your......ummm....I'm sorry, but I can not in good consensus call them "ladies", that I was BRAGGING. Then I'm told by Joey that she has owned her own home since the age of 40, and travels all the time....So she's telling me she's well off. And did I call her a braggart, no, I said "Good for you." And I meant it sincerely. 
I wasn't one of those going around telling everyone, "Oh, your just jealous of us, because you're poor, and don't have what we have." 
So soloweygirl.....get your facts straight before you put your foot in our mouth again. 
The only people here who have been pounding their chests are your, "whatever they are." (I'm still looking for the proper word to use for them that would suit their dispositions.) All they do is spew lies, hate and poison.

And I would say I am quite a bit diff. from you and your friends as I don't put the blame for the problems in this world on one party and one President. Most of the government is responsible for the mess we're in. But some more than others. You choose who you think it is, and I'll choose to think that if the Republicans had cooperated and tried to help with the running of our country, and not boycotted their duties, we all could have avoided the mess there is now. And NO, I'm not talking about ACA. I'm talking about how our government was almost shut down, and how the Tea Party almost took over this country. Thank God that didn't happen!



soloweygirl said:


> If you would stop pounding your chest for a bit, you would have learned that that is exactly what those ladies have done. They worked for what they have, as have I, and now you have admitted working for what you have as well. All in all, you are not that different than us.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Brilliant!.....I can hardly wait to hear what THEY have to say. 
I think I can about tell you how it will go. They will either ignore your post completely, or will start out by saying, "Ok, but why did the dems,.....yada-yada-yada." Or they will spend a few hours trying to look up things to counter what you've written. I don't think it's ever occurred the them that you don't counter a personal question, you answer it, but I'm sure they'll try, because they won't know what else to do. 
:lol:



NJG said:


> Hear are some more questions we will never know have answered. These are some GOOD questions.
> 
> 1) If Republicans are so fiscally responsible, why was President Eisenhower (in the 1950′s) the last Republican president to balance the budget?
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Innocuous yes, but childish as well. Not something you expect from a grown adult, with an adult mind. If you haven't anything useful or informative to say on a subject being discussed, then wait until you do. But I know she just doesn't want to be left out of your group.....So we'll just forgive her that one.... 
;-)


Jokim said:


> I think it's a pretty innocuous word to describe someone we don't agree with. It shows restraint and civility and is better than using mean and nasty names.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Not the country but the democrats made the choice of health care.


What is so bad about healthcare for all?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Their you go again LL........Not one original comment,


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> Showing a little snobbery there Joey--It is wonderful for charity work!!!!! It is wonderful for more than charity work. I have ordered some 100% wool that was described as soft, but was very harsh. Also you know "those people" won't know how to take of the more expensive yarns. If you put care instructions with it, even "those people" can take care of it. You don't need to assume anything else about people in need.
> 
> Sometimes you have to read between the lines with these conservatives to get their true meaning.


A friend of mine showed me some charity work from her country. The country is Argentina and the women knitted for the poor, I have never seen such beautiful and complex knitting done for the poor in this country. Apparently their generosity is truly to do G-d's work, not to show how generous they are.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh not again with the racist remarks. It all stems from the fact that he and his policys have been a lie and wrong. It has nothing to do with what race he is.


While not all of Obama's critics/opposers are racist, it can't be ignored that the fact that he is black--half-black anyway--is and has always been a huge part of the anger at his election. He hadn't been in office two minutes before right-wing cartoons & pictures featuring him as a gorilla or eating watermelon began appearing. He has been referred to as "shucking & jiving" and "lazy" among other things. A white president would never be asked to prove they are American and told to produce a birth certificate.

Like it or not, race is a BIG factor here.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

John McCain not only had to produce his Birth Cert. he was also investgated by a Congressional panel to determine if he was a natural born citizen due to his birth on a military base.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

galinipper said:


> John McCain not only had to produce his Birth Cert. he was also investgated by a Congressional panel to determine if he was a natural born citizen due to his birth on a military base.


Anyone seeking the office of President is vetted which includes providing a birth certificate.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

galinipper said:


> John McCain not only had to produce his Birth Cert. he was also investgated by a Congressional panel to determine if he was a natural born citizen due to his birth on a military base.


The only reason his certificate was brought up was because such a fuss was being made about Obama's.

And here is the thing that all Birthers seem unable to grasp: even if Obama hadn't been born in Hawaii (which he was), he would still be an American citizen because his mother is a citizen. It doesn't matter where you were born--if one or both of your parents is an AMerican citizen, so are you.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> While not all of Obama's critics/opposers are racist, it can't be ignored that the fact that he is black--half-black anyway--is and has always been a huge part of the anger at his election. He hadn't been in office two minutes before right-wing cartoons & pictures featuring him as a gorilla or eating watermelon began appearing. He has been referred to as "shucking & jiving" and "lazy" among other things. A white president would never be asked to prove they are American and told to produce a birth certificate.
> 
> Like it or not, race is a BIG factor here.


The cartoons of "W" also decorated the internet from the beginning of his term. The website of the 100 Bush names is an interesting read, and I'm not a Bush Family groupy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I agree with your observations.



Nussa said:


> You don't need to use any of those words to be a racist. I said I came to that conclusion after having reviewed her posts. She may not come right out and say it, but in my opinion, it's implied. I don't expect anyone else to take my word as gospel. I was making a personal observation. Everyone should know, that what you say, defines who you are. Yes, we all say stupid things at times. But I am just saying that she is so dead set on persecuting President Obama, and by the posts she has used, and words she has said, I believe she is upset because he is a black man. Again I will say......this is just my opinion. Which I believe I'm allowed by the Constitution to have.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> It's unbelievable that you believe that $17,000 for a family of five is doable even though they get assistance. Not everyone has an I Phone, cable TV, or wide screen TV. You generalize too much.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well, lets all do the happy dance, another bragging republican.


 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Snobbery. I'm better than 'they' are. That's what I see here, and it offends me.



NJG said:


> Showing a little snobbery there Joey--It is wonderful for charity work!!!!! It is wonderful for more than charity work. I have ordered some 100% wool that was described as soft, but was very harsh. Also you know "those people" won't know how to take of the more expensive yarns. If you put care instructions with it, even "those people" can take care of it. You don't need to assume anything else about people in need.
> 
> Sometimes you have to read between the lines with these conservatives to get their true meaning.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> The only reason his certificate was brought up was because such a fuss was being made about Obama's.
> 
> And here is the thing that all Birthers seem unable to grasp: even if Obama hadn't been born in Hawaii (which he was), he would still be an American citizen because his mother is a citizen. It doesn't matter where you were born--if one or both of your parents is an AMerican citizen, so are you.


My reply has nothing to do with "birthers." My reply was to your statement about Obama BC verses a caucasion BC. You said it would never happen, I said it all ready did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I will watch with baited breath for answers, or at least debate about these questions. Start counting.



NJG said:


> Hear are some more questions we will never know have answered. These are some GOOD questions.
> 
> 1) If Republicans are so fiscally responsible, why was President Eisenhower (in the 1950′s) the last Republican president to balance the budget?
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I doubt he/she/it is even human.



NJG said:


> There you go again, sitting on your Holier Than Thow perch and looking down you nose at rest of society. Shame on you, you are not a christian.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo!



Nussa said:


> You're a bit behind the times Loloweygirl. (Back on page 39) I was the first one to tell this post what, and how my family worked hard to earn what we have. And that I was proud of what we had attained in our 50 some years. And I was told by, your......ummm....I'm sorry, but I can not in good consensus call them "ladies", that I was BRAGGING. Then I'm told by Joey that she has owned her own home since the age of 40, and travels all the time....So she's telling me she's well off. And did I call her a braggart, no, I said "Good for you." And I meant it sincerely.
> I wasn't one of those going around telling everyone, "Oh, your just jealous of us, because you're poor, and don't have what we have."
> So soloweygirl.....get your facts straight before you put your foot in our mouth again.
> The only people here who have been pounding their chests are your, "whatever they are." (I'm still looking for the proper word to use for them that would suit their dispositions.) All they do is spew lies, hate and poison.
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

McCain Campaign Investigated, Dismissed Obama Citizenship Rumors.
Well, it's that odd? Look who accused President Obama of not having been born in the US. 
I'll bet McCain was surprised when they tried to prove the same about him..... 
And from what I found, it looks like anyone who wants to run for any kind of political office goes through the same thing.

http://washingtonindependent.com/52474/mccain-campaign-investigated-dismissed-obama-citizenship-rumors

By David Weigel
Friday, July 24, 2009 at 8:38 am

In the final months of the 2008 presidential race, Sen. John McCains (R-Ariz.) campaign learned of a lawsuit filed in Pennsylvania that asked the state to strip Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) of the Democratic nomination on suspicion that he was not an American citizen.



galinipper said:


> John McCain not only had to produce his Birth Cert. he was also investgated by a Congressional panel to determine if he was a natural born citizen due to his birth on a military base.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Prove it! By using a non-biased site, not one of your Obama bashers.
Bet you can't.



joeysomma said:


> Where is Obama's? The only one provided has been proven a total fraud.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So if that family of 5 has rent assistance, food stamps, Medicaid and maybe energy assistance and $8000 in federal tax refund in addition to the $17,000 What else do they need money for?
> 
> Maybe $400 for rent, $300 electricity, heat, and house phone per month. That still leaves $1300 a month. Oh, but I forgot they *need* cable TV, internet, I- phones, Brand name clothes and shoes, wide screen HD TV's just to live. *NOT!!!*
> 
> I did forget the vehicle and gas for work.


Ya know Joey it makes me very sad to hear you talk that way about poor people. I had a whole paragraph written about my income and expenses compared to the 17,000 and I took it out as it is none of your business and I knew you would not understand, because you are not capable of understanding. You have no compassion. Why do you feel you have the right and the knowledge to talk about other people like that? You can't group all people together, and then act like you have all the answers. It's that superior attitude that I see so much on this forum, the superior attitude that is always coming from republicans. Why is that? Do you think you sit at the right hand of God and that somehow makes you privileged so you can talk about people as you wish. You talk about people you do not know, and all you do is put them down. What is that saying, there but for the grace of God, go I. Do you ever let that thought enter your mind, or do you feel so special that you think that, that could never happen to you? You know I go to church too and I have never heard that kind of talk in the Methodist church. I come from a family of farmers, all hard working people, all very giving people, and I married into the same kind of family, and now my daughter has been fortunate enough to marry into that kind of family too. None of us talk that way. I never heard that kind of stuff growing up and we didn't have much, no did my husband and I when we first married, but never ever felt superior like you seem to . 
Maybe you should try to be a little more forgiving of other people, since you really don't know how they got to where they are, or what their daily struggles are. As time goes on, you may have a lot more struggles than you planned on. My son-in-law is a republican, but absolutely nothing like the people posting on this forum, thank God. It would break my heart if he ever talked like you and raised my grandchildren that way. He is a very compassionate man and an awesome Daddy to my grandchildren. I guess what I am saying is I hope the republicans that post on this forum are not the majority, and thank God the ones I know are not like you.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Where is Obama's? The only one provided has been proven a total fraud.


FYI, my brother was born at the same hospital as Obama, 2 days later and, lo and behold, his birth certificate looks identical to Obamas, go figure, I guess his must be a fraud as well. This birther stuff is just plain crap.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then WHY would he be acting as President of USA?



joeysomma said:


> Where is Obama's? The only one provided has been proven a total fraud.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That's the go to reply for any "official" in this administration. Present in any of the hearings lately. I don't have that information and will get back to you. Give it a rest. She, or at least her office, should know how many regulations are in the ACA and that info should be readily available. Her office is responsible for implementing them.


I am sure she will get the information for him like she said she would. He didn't have to be nasty and mean spirited. He is after all suppose to be an adult, but he didn't act like it. I am sure she has a lot more important number in her head than then that one. Give it a rest.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Michelle says o is born in Kenya.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M7Rp_Ghv6k


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

o says it too.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5zvGF6u9g


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bull feathers. Pay Day loans.



joeysomma said:


> The maximum interest that can be charged to an active duty military member is 6%.
> 
> 1950% interest would be illegal, loan sharks!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I haven't seen any attempts to address Nussa's long series of very pertinent questions. Have you?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Thank you NJG for sharing what you did. 
I did write that paragraph you talk about, and like I said, I was then told I was bragging. I learned then not to be open with them, as they were looking for any excuse to ridicule you. So I'm glad you didn't. 
But I'd like you to know that your life has gone very much as mine has. Husbands dad a farmer. And my husband would love to farm, but in the 70's at the age of 17 when he graduated, they weren't just handing them out, so he worked hard, and became a lineman for a utility company. We have never wanted for anything that we really needed. And never wasted money on things we really didn't.
We are also Methodist. )

Yes, if all Republican's are like the ones we've met on this site....Heaven help us all.



NJG said:


> Ya know Joey it makes me very sad to hear you talk that way about poor people. I had a whole paragraph written about my income and expenses compared to the 17,000 and I took it out as it is none of your business and I knew you would not understand, because you are not capable of understanding. You have no compassion. Why do you feel you have the right and the knowledge to talk about other people like that? You can't group all people together, and then act like you have all the answers. It's that superior attitude that I see so much on this forum, the superior attitude that is always coming from republicans. Why is that? Do you think you sit at the right hand of God and that somehow makes you privileged so you can talk about people as you wish. You talk about people you do not know, and all you do is put them down. What is that saying, there but for the grace of God, go I. Do you ever let that thought enter your mind, or do you feel so special that you think that, that could never happen to you? You know I go to church too and I have never heard that kind of talk in the Methodist church. I come from a family of farmers, all hard working people, all very giving people, and I married into the same kind of family, and now my daughter has been fortunate enough to marry into that kind of family too. None of us talk that way. I never heard that kind of stuff growing up and we didn't have much, no did my husband and I when we first married, but never ever felt superior like you seem to .
> Maybe you should try to be a little more forgiving of other people, since you really don't know how they got to where they are, or what their daily struggles are. As time goes on, you may have a lot more struggles than you planned on. My son-in-law is a republican, but absolutely nothing like the people posting on this forum, thank God. It would break my heart if he ever talked like you and raised my grandchildren that way. He is a very compassionate man and an awesome Daddy to my grandchildren. I guess what I am saying is I hope the republicans that post on this forum are not the majority, and thank God the ones I know are not.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> While not all of Obama's critics/opposers are racist, it can't be ignored that the fact that he is black--half-black anyway--is and has always been a huge part of the anger at his election. He hadn't been in office two minutes before right-wing cartoons & pictures featuring him as a gorilla or eating watermelon began appearing. He has been referred to as "shucking & jiving" and "lazy" among other things. A white president would never be asked to prove they are American and told to produce a birth certificate.
> 
> Like it or not, race is a BIG factor here.


You are very right.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I rather felt they wouldn't. I guess I stumped them.....Nice not to see the insults though isn't it?


damemary said:


> I haven't seen any attempts to address Nussa's long series of very pertinent questions. Have you?


 :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> You know, it's a funny thing.
> 
> When I was very young, and not very well-informed (nor very interested in either history or current events), one thing I noted about Martin Luther King, Jr. in the several years before he was killed:
> 
> ...


And I asked you a little while ago to explain what you "figured out" about the relationship between MLK and the violence and unrest that seemed, to you, to follow him wherever he went. I'd also like to have some more in-depth remarks from you about how that resembles the "polarizing" Obama may or may not be doing "for the very same reasons".

Your posts usually contain good sources to back them up. I don't recall you ever saying you "figured" something out.

If you didn't figure out that MLK, a sincere proponent of non-violence, wasn't followed by racial violence but met it bravely because it existed wherever he went then you have come to an incredibly incorrect understanding.

Go ahead and ignore me. Don't explain how you figured out whatever you figured out about MLK. If you can't or won't explain yourself to me here, I can only conclude that you are a racist pig whose every word posted here to date is suspect. :thumbdown: :thumbup: :hunf: :hunf: Oink, Oink.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's unfathomable that you won't admit that much of the criticism leveled at Obama is due to the fact that he happens to be African-American. Take a few moments to scan the comments beneath those ultra-right wing articles you gals love to site--how often are the words "ghetto trash" "********" and "n-gger" employed? Are these really examples of hating the policies but not the man?


It is unfathomable that you can not comprehend that for me (and none of my friends here) I do not disapprove of Obama because of his mixed race. I do not approve of any of his policies. Nothing more, nothing less. I have not posted any links that uses those disgusting words that you felt a need to list. They are not part of my language, and I have never heard of the term 'ghetto trash'. And 'colored' was only use in my presence by my grandmother when I was a very very very young child. And I was under the impression that the use of ******** was equal to the term whites. I never ever remembered using that term.

If Hilary runs for president and I disapprove of her policies does that make me a woman hater?

What 5 things has Obama done in the past 6 months that I could be proud of? Honestly I can think of nothing.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> o says it too.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5zvGF6u9g


Funny, funny, funny. He was being sarcastic and you know it. The majority of republicans know it too, or else they would be impeaching him. Grow up.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Don't forget they will have $25,000 with that extra $8000 non taxable from us, the taxpayer. If they don't have the extras they should do quite well.
> 
> My son and DIL do OK on much less than that.


Bull feathers.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

NJG said:


> LTL said: Considering how many times Obama praises Lincoln, one would think he would know the difference between a draft and the actual speech. Gosh for such a smart man, how could 36 other people get it right, and only he got it wrong? One would think someone on his brilliant staff would not have left that mistake happen. But I guess like the Obamacare mandate, he had to read the Gettysburg Address to know what is in the Gettysburg Address.
> 
> I guess republicans need to read the Gettysburg Address to know what is in the Gettysburg Address, especially the original that is held by the Library of Congress.
> Are you unable to read or are you just ignorant or both? He was asked to read, by Ken Burns, the Nicolay Version, which was written before the phrase under God was added. There are 5 versions of the address and 2 of them do not have the words "under God" in them.
> ...


I did when visiting the Lincoln Memorial and visiting Gettysburg. I just find it impossible to believe that ONLY Obama read a different version than everyone else. And if Obama wanted to read what most people believe what was said, he would have. So I conclude that he chose to pick the Godless version. You may find this trivial, and on its own, I could see your point. But for me it is just another example of his arrogance and disrespect for our Founding Founders


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Where is Obama's? The only one provided has been proven a total fraud.


Un freaking believable, Joey climb up from the quagmire you live in.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> o says it too.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se5zvGF6u9g


Well, after that posting and the previous I have to say that the name you use here is very appropriate. Funny, I hadn't thought that of you before.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=country%20bumpkin


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> While not all of Obama's critics/opposers are racist, it can't be ignored that the fact that he is black--half-black anyway--is and has always been a huge part of the anger at his election. He hadn't been in office two minutes before right-wing cartoons & pictures featuring him as a gorilla or eating watermelon began appearing. He has been referred to as "shucking & jiving" and "lazy" among other things. A white president would never be asked to prove they are American and told to produce a birth certificate.
> 
> Like it or not, race is a BIG factor here.


I never saw those cartoons that you refer to, I guess I do not visit those types of sites like you do.

Oh and when McCain was running for president he had to prove that he was an American, because he was not born in the states because of his father's deployment. So unless I am mistaken, I think McCain is 'white'


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> then you are blind or not looking


Show me some answers to her questions, I can't find any.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Funny, funny, funny. He was being sarcastic and you know it. The majority of republicans know it too, or else they would be impeaching him. Grow up.


Excuse me? I only put the link on for you. What about the video that Michelle said he was from Kenya? Was she being sarcastic too?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well, after that posting and the previous I have to say that the name you use here is very appropriate. Funny, I hadn't thought that of you before.
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=country%20bumpkin


God Bless you Susan.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> God Bless you Susan.


Who the heck is Susan?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Take your pick
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/09/video-sheriff-joes-obama-investigator-mike-zullo-there-never-was-a-birth-in-hawaii-2467154.html
> 
> ...


Joey, why is he still President? If it was actually proven that he was born in Kenya, where is the Republican outrage to get him out of the White House or are they part of the conspiracy?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Take your pick
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/09/video-sheriff-joes-obama-investigator-mike-zullo-there-never-was-a-birth-in-hawaii-2467154.html
> 
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I did when visiting the Lincoln Memorial and visiting Gettysburg. I just find it impossible to believe that ONLY Obama read a different version than everyone else. And if Obama wanted to read what most people believe what was said, he would have. So I conclude that he chose to pick the Godless version. You may find this trivial, and on its own, I could see your point. But for me it is just another example of his arrogance and disrespect for our Founding Founders


I didn't realize that Lincoln was a founding father.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well, after that posting and the previous I have to say that the name you use here is very appropriate. Funny, I hadn't thought that of you before.
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=country%20bumpkin


I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I answered one.


Which one?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If all you can do is call me names, I must be right!
> 
> Thank you.


Amen to that! :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If all you can do is call me names, I must be right!
> 
> Thank you.


What was the name I called you?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Amen to that! :thumbup:


What was the name I called you? I don't see a name. I didn't call you anything.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> What was the name I called you? I don't see a name. I didn't call you anything.


No you didn't call me a name. I was saying amen to being called names when someone doesn't like what is being said.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


Awww, but it is a great place to be!!!! Keeps me near all you guys!!!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> What was the name I called you? I don't see a name. I didn't call you anything.


I would love to know what people think about the idea floated by Republicans about dumping Medicare. I am thinking that perhaps it is a good one. 
Just think of the drain all of those 95 year olds are on the US economy. 
What do you all think?
Is Newt Gingrich (and his fellow GOTPers) correct?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


 :wink: :wink: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I did when visiting the Lincoln Memorial and visiting Gettysburg. I just find it impossible to believe that ONLY Obama read a different version than everyone else. And if Obama wanted to read what most people believe what was said, he would have. So I conclude that he chose to pick the Godless version. You may find this trivial, and on its own, I could see your point. But for me it is just another example of his arrogance and disrespect for our Founding Founders


He was asked to read it by film maker Ken Burns. He is the president and was asked to read the first and original copy, the Nicolay version. If you don't want to know the truth, that is your problem. You go ahead and repeat the lie. You repeat that lie to your children and grand children and some day they will know what a great dis-service you did to them. Some day your grand children will know what a liar you are. If that is the way you choose to live your life, more power to you, but I thought you profess to be a Christian. You prove that wrong every time you open your mouth.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How long should unemployment benefits last?


Now that you mention it, if it were up to me, it would last until the recipient got a job. I can assure you of one thing: the notion that people would prefer to collect unemployment instead of go back to work is as ridiculous as it is contemptuously insulting. Nor are the benefits that generous.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I asked Knitry to state one tax break that was available to the wealthy individual that was not available to anyone else.
> 
> None are in the site. Everything stated just says the wealthy get a larger deduction, and many taxes have been increased or added just for the wealthy since the article was for 2011 and 2012.
> 
> * There are NO tax breaks for the wealthy*


For many of the tax breaks, you have to be in the higher tax brackets. ANYONE is eligible, as long as you're wealthy. Get it??


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Politics and Policy
> 
> Errors Continue to Plague Government Health Site
> 
> ...


Link?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
> 
> Thanks to Obama the so called wealthy (more than $200,000 or $250,000) will be paying much, much more. Its the little guys earning under $120,000 that will have the most tax breaks.
> 
> If you don't believe me, you find the proof and post it here.


I think that is fair. This what Forbes had to sayu're Rich. How Much More Tax Will You Pay In 2013?

If that title piqued your interest, youre probably rich. And if so, it hasnt been the greatest year for you: Obamacare upheld. No snow in Aspen. Romney lost. J.R. Ewing died. And to cap it all off, in the waning moments of 2012, Congress approved a fiscal cliff deal that is sure to lead to some uneasy moments in cavernous mansions all across the country.

Formally named the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, the fiscal cliff deal preserved the tax rates, deductions, and credits for the Homers and Marges of the world, but it wasnt so kind to the Monte Burnses. So how much will the tax liability of high-earners actually increase in 2013?

As a reminder, three provisions of the ATRA and two of the previously enacted Affordable Health Care Act (Obamacare) take aim squarely at the wealthy this year:

ATRA (Fiscal Cliff) Increases

The maximum tax rates on ordinary income has increased from 35% to 39.6% on taxable income in excess of $450,000 (if MFJ, $400,000 if single);
Similarly, the maximum rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends has increased from 15% to 20% on taxpayers with taxable income in excess of those same thresholds;
The phase-out of itemized deductions and personal exemptions have returned; limiting the benefit of those reductions to taxable income for taxpayers with adjusted gross income in excess of $300,000 (if MFJ, $250,000 if single).

AHCA (ObamaCare) Increases

Wage earners and self-employed taxpayers will pay an additional 0.9% tax on their earned income in excess of $250,000 (if MFJ, $200,000 if single); and
Taxpayers with modified adjusted gross income in excess of $250,000 (if MFJ, $200,000 if single) will pay an additional 3.8% tax on their net investment income, i.e., dividends, interest, royalties, rents, other passive income and certain gains.

So what does it all mean? The mad scientists at the Tax Policy Center have done what they do best, crunching the numbers to determine just how hard high-earners will be hit in 2013. If we assume that those taxpayers with taxable income in excess of $450,000 represent the top 1% of the population, then compared to a baseline where

All of the 2012 tax rates were extended,
The 2% payroll tax cut was extended, and
The two additional Obamacare taxes were never enacted

these taxpayers will pay, on average, an additional $73,633 in tax in 2013 when compared to 2012, or roughly the amount Allen Iverson spends every eight days:

The increases break down like so:

Increased payroll tax burden: $2,542
Increases resulting from the additional 3.8% tax on net investment income: $20,583
Increases resulting from the rise in the maximum rate on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends to 20%: $11,280
Increases resulting from the rise in the maximum rate on ordinary income to 39.6%: $38,033

Mo money, mo problems, indeed.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Walmart has tax deferred retirement plans *available to anyone meeting the minimum working requirement.* Also profit sharing.
> Also a stock purchasing plan available for anyone. For example: If you buy $10 worth of stock per pay day they will add $2 or $3 more of stock. It can be sold at any time. At $10 a payday and if it is not sold, the value will increase as the value of stock in the stock market increases. Also it can lose, like any other stock on the stock market. It will pay dividends, if they are qualified dividends there will be no capital gains taxes for the majority of walmart employees.
> 
> *All breaks available to everyone. *


Everyone? or only those who meet the work requirements? Typically, those types of benefits go to fulltime employees and Wal-Mart is notorious for keeping their fulltime rolls as low as possible.



> Would you rather have a "flat tax?" Everyone pays 10%, then everyone is equal.
> 
> The rich pay much more than their "fair share."
> 
> But I wonder why I should take my time to educate anyone on here when you hate the right and the rich so much.


The rich do NOT pay their fair share. The top 1% own 40+% of all wealth in the U.S. and the bottom HALF own just 1%. Most of the income distribution 'gains' have all gone to the top 1%.

But you go right on believing that the rich are being treated unfairly. They won't give any more of a damn about you than they do now.

That's what always amuses me. Those who are sycophants and supporters and defenders of the vast wealth and privilege of the top 1-10% are just as meaningless to them as the rest of us. Oh, they need you, don't get me wrong. But there are an endless stream of "you" (and their propaganda is exceedingly strong), so you can -- and will -- be thrown over whenever it gets convenient for them to do so.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare is a failure. It has made this country a mess and BO has divided us. Terrible.


You divided yourselves, gleefully.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_Assistance_SCRA.asp
> 
> As a person who makes loans to people based on a probable tax return, we cannot make a loan to active duty military since the rate is 36%.
> 
> http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_Assistance_SCRA.asp


Interest for active duty is suppose to be no more than 6%, so I am thinking it was probably or maybe a missprint, ya think?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I chose them all. I think I've just proven to you that no matter what site you post, and no matter what side you're on, each one of us can find something that substantiates our view. If I were you, I'd leave it alone now. I've proven my point.

Website.......Beforeitsnews: Review

The site is censored to anyone not promoting the current Before Its News agenda driven propaganda. BIN got an extra star for information exposure, unfortunately it's been censored. "Sorry, Your Account Is Blocked" is what one gets when facts are presented contrary to the current BIN propaganda.
They also said something about a UFO in the Seattle tunnel...Huh?

Website...... News.yahoo: Courts have rebuffed lawsuits over the issue.
The Arizona Democratic Party said in a statement that Arpaio's investigation is intended to draw attention away from problems within his own agency, such as hundreds of sex-crime cases that the sheriff's office failed to adequately investigate over a three-year period.

Freedom Outpost » Tea Party Community - Tea Party Hub
Statement made on their post:
Barack Obama  The Muslim-in-Chief - Freedom Outpost

Sonorannews.com:
Cave Creeks Sonoran News is facing lawsuit by couple.

Fellowshipoftheminds:
Run by - 
East West Services, Inc.

East West Services, Inc. is a privately-owned company. Its media division features the work of seasoned professional journalists and publishes:



joeysomma said:


> Take your pick
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/09/video-sheriff-joes-obama-investigator-mike-zullo-there-never-was-a-birth-in-hawaii-2467154.html
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I think you just called most of the people on this site "Little Guys." 
How do all you LITTLE GUYS like that?

Looks like joey must be one of the WEALTHY. Because she would have never used that term to describe herself. No wonder she's so upset about the wealthy having to pay more taxes.....Her tax breaks will go down the toilet.....



joeysomma said:


> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
> 
> Thanks to Obama the so called wealthy (more than $200,000 or $250,000) will be paying much, much more. Its the little guys earning under $120,000 that will have the most tax breaks.
> 
> If you don't believe me, you find the proof and post it here.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Excuse me? I only put the link on for you. What about the video that Michelle said he was from Kenya? Was she being sarcastic too?


I didn't bother to watch it, but I am sure it was the one where she was talking about aids and she called Kenya the home country. It is old news and again you know exactly what she meant. Get a life.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> The rich do NOT pay their fair share. The top 1% own 40+% of all wealth in the U.S. and the bottom HALF own just 1%. Most of the income distribution 'gains' have all gone to the top 1%.
> 
> But you go right on believing that the rich are being treated unfairly. They won't give any more of a damn about you than they do now.
> 
> That's what always amuses me. Those who are sycophants and supporters and defenders of the vast wealth and privilege of the top 1-10% are just as meaningless to them as the rest of us. Oh, they need you, don't get me wrong. But there are an endless stream of "you" (and their propaganda is exceedingly strong), so you can -- and will -- be thrown over whenever it gets convenient for them to do so.


Is Joey actually trying to convince you that Walmart is giving a 20 to 30 percent gift to anyone who buys stock who works for them? Honestly?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I think you just called most of the people on this site "Little Guys."
> How do all you LITTLE GUYS like that?
> 
> Looks like joey must be one of the WEALTHY. Because she would have never used that term to describe herself. No wonder she's so upset about the wealthy having to pay more taxes.....Her tax breaks will go down the toilet.....


Ya Joey and Martha, only Martha calls us the little people and Joey calls us the little guys. Same difference.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Finally, after 6 pages in this thread, the Libs get to the heart of the 'problem.'
> 
> They are poor, uneducated and envious of the average American.
> 
> ...


Well, I'm certainly not uneducated. Poor? Not exactly, but not as well off as at an earlier time in my life, but I've fortunately long since reached an age where money and "things" are all that important to me.

Here's something you're missing, though, and that is that the financial goodies you mention aren't "tools used by average Americans," but tools used by MIDDLE CLASS Americans, a category which is being decimated by the greed of the 1- 10% and the corruption of the banksters.

In fact, here's a news item from CBS News:



> 80 percent of U.S. adults face near-poverty, unemployment, survey finds
> Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near-poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.
> 
> Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor, and the loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.
> ...


The middle class has been decimated, and it looks like Reaganomics along with Bushanomics has been the cause along with the misguided "austerity" forced on the country by the Republicans:



> What does all this tell us about how the American economic model has worked for the middle class and the poor?
> 
> In many ways, the years since the median household income peaked back in 1999 have a something quite rare in economic analysisa natural experiment testing an economic hypothesis such as these:
> 
> ...


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I would love to know what people think about the idea floated by Republicans about dumping Medicare. I am thinking that perhaps it is a good one.
> Just think of the drain all of those 95 year olds are on the US economy.
> What do you all think?
> Is Newt Gingrich (and his fellow GOTPers) correct?


Well, what I actually think would probably get me kicked off KP so I won't say it, but ya know it might be a good idea for the republicans to try that in 2014. Have you ever seen a bunch of grandpas and grandmas riot? The 95 year olds may have to stay home and man the phones, but I am sure the rest of us could take care of those sniveling whipper snappers. I would like to get my hands on Senator Grassley myself. That could be a lot of fun.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You have to say what exactly and precisely what you think the link betwen racial violence and unrest and MLK was. Then you have to expain how, exactly, the President is creating what you think is the same kind of polarizarion. While you're doing that you'll have to be sure you aren't up to your neck in raicist rhetoric. The fact that you didn't include your understanding of the link between MLK and racial violence that you developed many years later hints that you are just one more racist. There's nothing funy about your youthfil ignorance.


Nor is there anything funny about your rather grotesque misreading -- or ultra-willingness to read the worst about me in those subtle words.

In truth, I was a little concerned that my very subtle point was going to be missed. And I am not in the least surprised by the fact that YOU were the one who missed it.

How very tedious to have to explain it, but I will.

On second thought, no I won't. If you can't have read my various posts in these threads and realize I am not a racist, then pax on you (please note the spelling!! else that may be too subtle for you too). Believe what you want. I don't have time for such nonsense.

on THIRD thought, what I will do is leave you with one of my all-time favorite quotes. MAYBE you'll "get it" from pondering that, especially if you happen to know who the author is (or could conceivably take it upon yourself to google him):

*Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has and it never will. *-- Frederick Douglass

That's the main gist of it, and the part most often quoted, though there is more to the quote which I'll leave you to research -- or not.

Should you ever figure all this out, I'll anticipate -- though not expect -- an apology.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I agree Knitry, and with fewer and fewer people in the middle class, and more and more people considered to be poor, just who do they think is going to buy all the goods and services the rich are trying to sell. You know us poor people won't have much money to buy all those goodies, and there are so many more of us than there are of them, they will have to produce cheaper and cheaper goods and services. Then they won't make as much. You would think it would benefit them to want more and more people in the middle class and moving up. Do they just not get it? The middle class with money is what they want, but that is not what they are getting, is it?


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I did when visiting the Lincoln Memorial and visiting Gettysburg. I just find it impossible to believe that ONLY Obama read a different version than everyone else. And if Obama wanted to read what most people believe what was said, he would have. So I conclude that he chose to pick the Godless version. You may find this trivial, and on its own, I could see your point. But for me it is just another example of his arrogance and disrespect for our Founding Founders


Oh for pity's sake. Ken Burn's *asked* Obama to read the Nicolay (1st draft) version. Burns wanted it included in order to show that there are more than one version (in fact several more) versions of the Gettysburg Address. Lincoln wrote it...so are you now going to say that Lincoln was "godless?"


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I do not believe that is even close to being true, but as a Dem you want to always associate with liars like Obama and Clinton.
> 
> Sad when 70% thinks our president is a liar. .


Yeah, that's bad, but not as bad as having a President who 100% KNOW lied -- and thousands of Americans died along with hundreds of thousands of innocent people in Iraq.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And with the middle class now also poor, it looks like the rich are going to have to take care of us. Because if those of you who think the Republicans will, you are sadly mistaken. And when the rich are broke.....all that will left, will be Wealthy politicians...who will all starve to death because there won't be anyone to do the work to feed, clothe, and take care of them......End of the world I guess. Then....life will start over. We'll all start out as amoebas....and joey and her cohort amoebas, will be the only ones trying to cause a riot within the amoeba community. Yep....that sounds about right.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

joey must have run off to find us some more useless website facts.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Could This New Congressional Resolution Lead to Impeachment of Obama?


Oh, I HOPE so. It did wonders for Clinton's popularity, resulted in the founding of MoveOn which has been quite a force for leftwing politics over the years, and many other good things. The Republicans took quite a hit too since the American people understood very well that it was all just an ugly grudge, with no real "there" there.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> For many of the tax breaks, you have to be in the higher tax brackets. ANYONE is eligible, as long as you're wealthy. Get it??


It's loopholes Joey. Ever heard that word before? Here are some I found and there must be many more available.

Capital gains tax rate

The current 15 percent capital gains tax rate for most investors and zero percent rate for lower income taxpayers are part of the much ballyhooed George W. Bush-era tax cuts. The idea behind the lower capital gains tax is that it encourages investment, which helps create new companies that hire more people -- and we're all fat and happy thanks to this tax-subsidized investment chain. Think again.

This tax loophole is estimated by the Joint Committee on Taxation to cost the U.S. Treasury nearly $457 billion between 2011 and 2015.

And it's a huge reason why the wealthy, such as financier Warren Buffett, are able to pay substantially lower overall tax rates. Buffett's oft-repeated confession that his tax rate is lower than his secretary's sparked the latest political debate on the fairness of low tax rates on investment profits.

Ordinary taxpayers pay tax on their earnings at ordinary income tax rates up to 35 percent. The really rich, however, are different from you and me in that they tend to make most of their money via investments instead of standard paychecks -- meaning most of their money is taxed at 15 percent.

But what about the wonderful zero tax rate for investors in the 10 percent and 15 percent income tax brackets? Really? Most folks at those tax levels don't have a lot, if any, cash left over to invest after paying their bills. But by giving them the option, members of Congress felt better about voting for a tax break that benefits primarily the rich.
Home mortgage interest deduction

If you've ever bought a house, one of the first things your real estate agent and mortgage broker probably pointed out was that you get to deduct your home loan's mortgage interest on your taxes.

What they didn't tell you was that your deduction is underwritten by the vast majority of homeowners who don't get this tax break.

The home mortgage interest deduction is the largest individual taxpayer cost to the U.S. Treasury. Uncle Sam will lose an estimated $464 billion between 2011 and 2015. And that amount is racked up by just the third of American taxpayers who itemize.

Even worse, say economists, the tax deduction probably isn't necessary. Most other industrialized nations worldwide don't offer their residents a tax break for buying a house, yet those folks buy homes. And the reality is that no one ever bought, or didn't buy, a house based on the tax law.

What the home mortgage interest deduction really does, say economists, is encourage more financially well-off individuals to buy bigger houses. The July 2011 Reason Foundation study, "Unmasking the Mortgage Interest Deduction," found that the annual average tax saving of the mortgage deduction for a taxpayer making $50,000 to $75,000 was $179, and that only about one-third in this group claim the deduction. At the upper income level, however, homeowners with incomes exceeding $200,000 get an annual tax benefit of more than $2,200, and almost three-quarters claim the deduction.

The mortgage interest deduction benefits also are geographically disproportionate. Just as high-income taxpayers get more out of it, so do metropolitan areas with high incomes, taxes and housing prices. That historically has tended to be locales in California and the Northeast.

So the next time you visit your cousin at his new house in New Jersey, make sure he thanks you for your help with his purchase.

Read more: http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-loopholes-mainly-benefit-rich-1.aspx#ixzz2nbOsCQNm


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Remember joey.......let SHE who is without sin cast the first stone.......You've been casting like you've got a dump truck load in your backyard.........


Knitry said:


> Oh, I HOPE so. It did wonders for Clinton's popularity, resulted in the founding of MoveOn which has been quite a force for leftwing politics over the years, and many other good things. The Republicans took quite a hit too since the American people understood very well that it was all just an ugly grudge, with no real "there" there.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Wow crappy yarn who made you the judge? Most people on here can not afford your richy yarn. But God Bless them even with out the money one needs to afford yarn they still think of others and make things for charity. They give with their hearts not with money. God Bless them.
> snip
> Glad you can live on the throne and judge all. Good luck with that.


Oh, how funny. Filled with judgment about everyone else, just until the moment someone expresses a little disapproval of crappy yarn. How truly, truly hilarious. But the kind of judgment that hurts people? No problem! Bring it on. More, more, more.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Actually it's the other way around. If you reply, and you have, to an acusation that's only an opinion, you lower yourself to the supossed level of the person who made the accusation and give it the validity it didn't have before you replied.


Hmm, I wonder how you'll peg the response I posted in response to you. But nevermind, just a passing thought on my part, no real interest.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Here's a link to "In Christ There is No East or West". I'll be heretical enough to say that I believe we are all of one kin, in Christ or otherwise. Hope you like the music. 






MaidInBedlam said:


> I have a great fondness for hymns, and this is one of my favorites. Wish I knew how to include the tune.Maybe there's a video on youtube...
> 
> In Christ there is no East or West
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh not again with the racist remarks.
> snip
> 
> I am not saying there are not racist in this world. But to blame the whole party for a few who are, is simply the stupidist statement I have ever heard.
> I think if one would truly look at all parties one could find racist on both sides.


Here's the difference: the racism in the Republican Party is endemic, systemic, and always, always, always allowed and enabled and indulged. There are never any more responsible members of the party standing up and saying, "No, that's not right."

SILENCE CONDONES.

Silence condones. Those who stay silent in the face of clear, obvious, outright racism (or other bigotry, or other wrongdoing) are condoning and enabling that bigotry and wrongdoing, pure and simple.

Are there racists in the Democratic party? Yeah, probably. They're less likely to hold office, though, and definitely far less likely to be allowed to express their racism outright and get away with it.

So you see, the Republican Party has gotten branded as the party of racisgts only because they earned it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
> 
> Thanks to Obama the so called wealthy (more than $200,000 or $250,000) will be paying much, much more. Its the little guys earning under $120,000 that will have the most tax breaks.
> 
> If you don't believe me, you find the proof and post it here.


What it all boils down to is the rich have become too greedy. The more money they had to stick in their pocket, they more they wanted. They thought, we will get rid of the unions, so the worker bees won't have anyone to stand up for them. They will just have to do their job and take the pay we give them. We won't raise the minimum wage and will get rid of it if we can. Food stamps will be a thing of the past. If you don't work, you don't eat, and if there aren't enough jobs available, well that will just eliminate the weaker ones first. Lets also curtail all those people from voting. Ya know, its just "those people" and who cares if they have a voice. They are uneducated and ignorant so it doesn't matter what they think. They don't need to vote. This is a white Christian country and we want it back. That is the way it should be, don't ya think.

Can't you just see republicans sitting in a meeting plotting all this.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Here's the difference: the racism in the Republican Party is endemic, systemic, and always, always, always allowed and enabled and indulged. There are never any more responsible members of the party standing up and saying, "No, that's not right."
> 
> SILENCE CONDONES.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Exactly


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> In this day and age, you think a family of 5 living on $17,000, regardless of the assistance they get, is living pretty well. Are you insane? These kind of statements only prove your ignorance. OMG


It's ghastly, isn't it? It's difficult to imagine that -- even if they've never lived in poverty themselves -- that they lack that much imagination and empathy themselves. Like Romney and his 47% comment. It's just incomprehensible.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I'm sorry my numbers were outdated. That must have been the amount from 1997-2002 when my son worked there.
> 
> _"Wal-Mart matches employee stock purchases by 15% on the first $1,800 worth of shares bought each year. If you work at the company and write a check to buy $1,800 worth of the stock, the company is going to give you another $270 to buy shares completely free. That results in an automatic 15% return before youve collected your first dividend. On top of that, the company matches 100% on the first 6% of salary contributed to a 401(k) plan."_


You mean on $7.25 an hour, you can purchase $1800 worth of shares a year. Wow!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

NJG said:


> Showing a little snobbery there Joey--It is wonderful for charity work!!!!! It is wonderful for more than charity work. I have ordered some 100% wool that was described as soft, but was very harsh. Also you know "those people" won't know how to take of the more expensive yarns. If you put care instructions with it, even "those people" can take care of it. You don't need to assume anything else about people in need.
> 
> Sometimes you have to read between the lines with these conservatives to get their true meaning.


You and a couple of your friends were the ones who were quick to jump on Blue's bandwagon criticizing use of acrylics for charity projects. Twisting Joey's words for your own purposes just shows how prepared you are to find fault with anything and everything she says


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

More loopholes


CEO private security. A common corporate tax trick, according to the New York Times, is corporate boards paying for private jets and other perks for their CEOs under the guise of security. As Steven Davidoff reported, typically CEOs would have to pay taxes on these benefits, but if the benefit is classified as necessary for security purposes, the chief executive will pay a reduced tax bill or sometimes no tax at all.

Florida cow scam. In Florida, wealthy developers, lawmakers and even some corporations game the tax code by placing cows on their land for a limited amount of time each year, thereby qualifying for agricultural tax breaks. Sen. Ben Nelson (D-FL) has benefited from this absurd loophole for years, as has Disney World. But Florida isnt the only offender. From rock stars in New Jersey to movie stars in Colorado, tax breaks meant for farmers get gamed by the most privileged, using everything from sheep to beehives.

Facebook stock options. The social media giant Facebook made more than $1 billion in profits last year, but paid no corporate tax thanks to a huge write-off after its initial public offering. In fact, the company received a refund of $451 million. As Citizens for Tax Justice, explained, Facebooks income tax refunds stem from the companys use of a single tax break, the tax deductibility of executive stock options. This loophole will also allow Facebook to avoid more than $2 billion in taxes in future years. LinkedIn used the same gimmick to pay no federal taxes for the last three years.

Bluegrass boondoggle. This tax break, created by Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Kentucky) in 2008, gives wealthy horse owners a break worth $126 million over 10 years by allowing faster depreciation (quicker tax write-offs) of race horses. McConnell has defended the break by claiming it helps Kentuckys farm economy.

Sheryl Crow loophole. Low tax rates on investment income are one of the main reasons the wealthy are able to pay lower taxes than those in the middle-class (and are also a prime driver of income inequality). Lawmakers from Americas heartland felt it was necessary to let super-wealthy musicians get in on the action, and so passed a law allowing songwriters to avoid income taxes and sell their publishing catalogs at capital gains rates. As San Francisco Weeklys Chris Parker noted, Three years later, Sheryl Crow sold her publishing rights to one of Australia's largest banks for nearly $10 million. Her estimated savings courtesy of this congressional giveaway: $2 million.

NASCAR tax break. Thanks to a provision in the 2008 bank bailout, owners of NASCAR tracks are able to write off the costs of their facilities over seven years, rather than over the 39 years that the government estimates it will take for the tracks to depreciate. This particular loophole costs the government $40 million per year, but Congress reauthorizes it over and over again.

John Edwards/Newt Gingrich loophole. Both the former presidential candidate and the former Speaker of the House have taken advantage of a provision allowing them to dodge payroll taxes. By forming S corporations, Edwards and Gingrich are able to classify the money they receive from various ventures as business profits, rather than payments for services rendered, which exempts that money from the payroll tax. This loophole is regularly abused by lawyers, doctors and accountants, who can count the work they do every day as part of operating a small business that consists only of themselves. As tax expert Seth Hanlon noted, Regular wage-earners cant do this, and neither can the owners of other kinds of small businesses.

Tax breaks for vacation homes and yachts. The mortgage interest deduction, which is supposed to boost homeownership, can be used on second homes, or even yachts, so long as they are large enough to accommodate a bathroom, along with a cooking and sleeping space. Limiting the deduction to primary residences would raise $1 billion per year in revenue.

Double Irish and Dutch Sandwich. Many companies, from Google to Amazon to Starbucks, use offshore tax havens to drive down their corporate tax rates, sometimes down into the single digits. Some of the inventive strategies theyve used include routing profits through Ireland, the Netherlands, Bermuda, or Luxembourg, using tax tricks with cheeky names like the Double Irish and the Dutch sandwich. European countries have recently attempted to crack down on some of the more flagrant abuses.

Large SUVs. Weve already discussed the yacht tax break, but going out and purchasing a large SUV will get a member of the 1 percent another write-off. As Bloomberg News noted, the tax codes restrictions on write-offs for luxury vehicles dont apply to those rated at 6,000 pounds unloaded gross vehicle weight or more. This means that purchasing a large SUV often provides faster writeoffs than similar but smaller vehicles.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> What it all boils down to is the rich have become too greedy. The more money they had to stick in their pocket, they more they wanted. They thought, we will get rid of the unions, so the worker bees won't have anyone to stand up for them. They will just have to do their job and take the pay we give them. We won't raise the minimum wage and will get rid of it if we can. Food stamps will be a thing of the past. If you don't work, you don't eat, and if there aren't enough jobs available, well that will just eliminate the weaker ones first. Lets also curtail all those people from voting. Ya know, its just "those people" and who cares if they have a voice. They are uneducated and ignorant so it doesn't matter what they think. They don't need to vote. This is a white Christian country and we want it back. That is the way it should be, don't ya think.
> 
> Can't you just see republicans sitting in a meeting plotting all this.


And, of course, it isn't that those who pay taxes that are a bit higher are paying lots more... we pay that tiny little percentage on the income OVER the 200K not on the full amount of income and that is adjusted income, of course.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


Wasn't A. Lincoln considered a 'country bumpkin' by the 19th century Northeastern establishment eggheads? Who's immortalized in history?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Another Loophole---Do you think tax avoidance is a bigger problem at the top or the bottom of the income ladder? 

Lots of attention has been paid to the freeloading 47-percenters  the 47% of Americans who pay no federal income taxes.

But what about the tax-ducking 0.004 percenters?

Associated Press
Red McCombs

An article by Bloombergs Jesse Drucker details a lucrative tax loophole used by the wealthy to defer or avoid taxes. Its known as unrealized appreciation or a variable pre-paid forward contract, the strategy has allowed billionaires like Billy Joe Red McCombs and others to earn hundreds of millions of dollars without having the money classified as taxable income.

McCombs, co-founder of Clear Channel Communications Inc., for instance, reported a $9.8 million loss on his tax return, but failed to include about $259 million from a lucrative stock transaction, according to the article. The IRS ordered him to pay $44.7 million in back taxes and hes since settled for about half the amount. (He declined comment to Bloomberg and couldnt immediately be reached for additional comment).

The loophole works like this: A stockholder lends shares to an investment bank with a promise to turn over the shares years later. In return, the shareholder receives money  $228 million in the case of Dole Food Co.s David Murdock, according to the article. The taxes are deferred until the time of delivery. The taxpayers argue that the share loans dont amount to transfers or sales and therefore shouldnt be subject to capital gains.

Whats the solution?

Attorney David S. Miller proposes a mark-to-market system to tax the annual appreciation in the stock holdings of the top 1/10th of 1% of taxpayers. That would essentially tax gains in a given year regardless of whether the shares are sold. In a 2005 article in the journal Tax Notes, Miller estimated this approach would raise between $490 billion and $750 billion over a decade.

That may close one loophole. But there are loads of other tax loopholes used by the wealthy and their highly paid accountants. More than 10,000 Americans who earned more than $200,000 in 2007 paid no incomes taxes.

Its all perfectly legal, in most cases. But it just shows that there are non-taxpayers on all rungs of the income ladder.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> A friend of mine showed me some charity work from her country. The country is Argentina and the women knitted for the poor, I have never seen such beautiful and complex knitting done for the poor in this country. Apparently their generosity is truly to do G-d's work, not to show how generous they are.


I've seen many beautiful examples of charity knitting on KP - fair isle, cables, intricate afghans. Knitters and crocheters in my community have also done beautiful work for the women's shelter, children's programs, nursing homes. And yes, many were done in acrylic, nylon or blends


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Here's the difference: the racism in the Republican Party is endemic, systemic, and always, always, always allowed and enabled and indulged. There are never any more responsible members of the party standing up and saying, "No, that's not right."
> 
> SILENCE CONDONES.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That Walmart must be in some other country that doesn't exist....But then I do know that the employees, have to work the hours Walmart wants them to, with no regard for their families...and over time? They may work it, but the don't always get paid for it......A wealthy company's loophole I suppose. joey must think she's the only one who knows people who work at Walmart.


NJG said:


> You mean on $7.25 an hour, you can purchase $1800 worth of shares a year. Wow!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Wasn't A. Lincoln considered a 'country bumpkin' by the 19th century Northeastern establishment eggheads? Who's immortalized in history?


I think in this day and age with TV, internet, news 24/7, it's a lot easier to be informed than in Lincoln's day. So being a country bumpkin is not really a positive characterization. Education is the key to success.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


many of them resort to name calling when there is no logical debate for them to put forward


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I've seen many beautiful examples of charity knitting on KP - fair isle, cables, intricate afghans. Knitters and crocheters in my community have also done beautiful work for the women's shelter, children's programs, nursing homes. And yes, many were done in acrylic, nylon or blends


These were done with fine wools.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> many of them resort to name calling when there is no logical debate for them to put forward


As if your side doesn't name call. BTW what was the name she was called?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> While not all of Obama's critics/opposers are racist, it can't be ignored that the fact that he is black--half-black anyway--is and has always been a huge part of the anger at his election. He hadn't been in office two minutes before right-wing cartoons & pictures featuring him as a gorilla or eating watermelon began appearing. He has been referred to as "shucking & jiving" and "lazy" among other things. A white president would never be asked to prove they are American and told to produce a birth certificate.
> 
> Like it or not, race is a BIG factor here.


Perfectly stated.

And there's more: They just couldn't stand the idea that a BLACK man had been elected President! PRESIDENT!! (It didn't help the Republican pollsters all thought Romney was going to win.) Democrat was bad enough, but a BLACK Democrat was all the worse. That was a major part of what was/is behind all that birth certificate nonsense, especially since the very subject drove home his blackness (Kenya and all, dontcha know?).

(Aside: with Ted Cruz's Presidential aspirations, you don't hear a word about HIS birth certificate or eligibility to run. Funny, huh?)


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

joey.......I've been waiting for you to respond to the sites you sent for me to check over. You know, the ones that say President Obama wasn't born in the USA? 

I responded to you when you asked me to......Are you hiding from me? I thought you were the one with all the answers. 

You say that you make out taxes for a living. I guess knowing math doesn't always give you all the answers does it?

Here, let me re-post them for you in case you missed them:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Website.......Beforeitsnews: Review

The site is censored to anyone not promoting the current Before Its News agenda driven propaganda. BIN got an extra star for information exposure, unfortunately it's been censored. "Sorry, Your Account Is Blocked" is what one gets when facts are presented contrary to the current BIN propaganda.
They also said something about a UFO in the Seattle tunnel...Huh?

Website...... News.yahoo: Courts have rebuffed lawsuits over the issue.
The Arizona Democratic Party said in a statement that Arpaio's investigation is intended to draw attention away from problems within his own agency, such as hundreds of sex-crime cases that the sheriff's office failed to adequately investigate over a three-year period.

Freedom Outpost » Tea Party Community - Tea Party Hub
Statement made on their post:
Barack Obama  The Muslim-in-Chief - Freedom Outpost

Sonorannews.com:
Cave Creeks Sonoran News is facing lawsuit by couple.

Fellowshipoftheminds:
Run by -
East West Services, Inc.

East West Services, Inc. is a privately-owned company. Its media division features the work of seasoned professional journalists and publishes: (Nothing biased about this one huh?)


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> And I asked you a little while ago to explain what you "figured out" about the relationship between MLK and the violence and unrest that seemed, to you, to follow him wherever he went. I'd also like to have some more in-depth remarks from you about how that resembles the "polarizing" Obama may or may not be doing "for the very same reasons".
> 
> Your posts usually contain good sources to back them up. I don't recall you ever saying you "figured" something out.
> 
> ...


Yes, I am going to ignore you. You can read what I've written with considerably more thought and analysis and come up with the RIGHT analysis -- or not. Your choice.

Edited to add: No matter what else, I won't EVER forget that you called me a pig.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> many of them resort to name calling when there is no logical debate for them to put forward


I know. God help them I pray.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
> 
> Thanks to Obama the so called wealthy (more than $200,000 or $250,000) will be paying much, much more. Its the little guys earning under $120,000 that will have the most tax breaks.
> 
> If you don't believe me, you find the proof and post it here.


No, hon. If you want to contradict me, YOU find the proof. You'e the one who says you know so much about taxes -- so prove it, some of those IRS links should do.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> These were done with fine wools.


which is great if that works for them --- Argentina produces some wonderful wool and blended yarns. Reminder that there are many acrylics and blends that cost more than wool, the fiber content alone is NOT an indicator of generosity.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, lookie what I found.......
Is Ted Cruz, born in Canada, eligible to run for president?
Can Ted Cruz run for president if he was born in Canada?

The Republican senator from Texas says he can. And just to be sure, hes taking the extra step of renouncing the Canadian citizenship he says he didnt even know he had.

Here's the website I got it from....wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of lying.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2013/aug/20/ted-cruz-born-canada-eligible-run-president/



Knitry said:


> Perfectly stated.
> 
> And there's more: They just couldn't stand the idea that a BLACK man had been elected President! PRESIDENT!! (It didn't help the Republican pollsters all thought Romney was going to win.) Democrat was bad enough, but a BLACK Democrat was all the worse. That was a major part of what was/is behind all that birth certificate nonsense, especially since the very subject drove home his blackness (Kenya and all, dontcha know?).
> 
> (Aside: with Ted Cruz's Presidential aspirations, you don't hear a word about HIS birth certificate or eligibility to run. Funny, huh?)


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> I agree Knitry, and with fewer and fewer people in the middle class, and more and more people considered to be poor, just who do they think is going to buy all the goods and services the rich are trying to sell. You know us poor people won't have much money to buy all those goodies, and there are so many more of us than there are of them, they will have to produce cheaper and cheaper goods and services. Then they won't make as much. You would think it would benefit them to want more and more people in the middle class and moving up. Do they just not get it? The middle class with money is what they want, but that is not what they are getting, is it?


Unfortunately, they have massive markets in China and India. They (think) they don't need us any more and would prefer to bring back feudalism, making us all serfs again. Unfortunately, we're well on our way.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: Using Bush's tax cuts, for a period of 6years we paid no federal income tax on an income of less than $30,000. no children, married filing jointly. no Social Security.


And your point is?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm too old to bother with subtleties any more. I pay attention to plain, straightforward language. The rest is just decoration. If what you say is important enough to you, you'll cut the subtlety and just say your say. Your supposed very subtle post I originally responded to was very unlike your usual plain and well thought out writing. You might want to stick to your usual style and give up that subtlety jazz. And, yes, I remember my Latin.

Here's a longer quote of what FD said and from which you extracted a very small crumb.

"Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims, have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."

"This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. *Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.* Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. In the light of these ideas, ******* will be hunted at the North, and held and flogged at the South so long as they submit to those devilish outrages, and make no resistance, either moral or physical. Men may not get all they pay for in this world; but they must certainly pay for all they get. If we ever get free from the oppressions and wrongs heaped upon us, we must pay for their removal. We must do this by labor, by suffering, by sacrifice, and if needs be, by our lives and the lives of others." --Frederick Douglass, 1857

It surprises me that you would expect to ever get an apology from me. I think I'd rather you apologize to me for your useless subtlety, and your snotty attitude. Looks like neither of us should hold our breaths waiting for apologies. it does seem that you aren't a racist pig. It looks like you are much younger than me, if you were too young to be concerned with link between MLK and racial unrest. The age gap between us would hint that you are an ageist pig instead.


Knitry said:


> Nor is there anything funny about your rather grotesque misreading -- or ultra-willingness to read the worst about me in those subtle words.
> 
> In truth, I was a little concerned that my very subtle point was going to be missed. And I am not in the least surprised by the fact that YOU were the one who missed it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It surprises me that you would expect to ever get an apology from me. I think I'd rather you apologize to me for your useless subtlety, and your snotty attitude. Looks like neither of us should hold our breaths waiting for apologies.


I think I've seen everything.

I should apologize to YOU because you can't figure it the hell out? YOUR inadequacies and unwillingness to give it a little brainpower should be a source of MY apology to YOU?

YOUR ugly, totally erroneous insults and charges of me should merit an APOLOGY FROM *ME?*

You misjudge me and viciously charge me with racism and *I* should apologize?

You'll get NOTHING from me other than snotty attitude from now on -- whether you apologize or not.

Get real.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> You and a couple of your friends were the ones who were quick to jump on Blue's bandwagon criticizing use of acrylics for charity projects. Twisting Joey's words for your own purposes just shows how prepared you are to find fault with anything and everything she says


Hey, that is easy to do. I have read many many of her posts and all you have to do is read between the lines and know that she doesn't always say what she means. She tries to say it so it sounds nicer than it really is. No twisting was done. It wasn't necessary.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> These are corporations, totally different tax codes. I am only talking about individuals.


Well I am talking about individuals and corporations. Corporations are some of the biggest offenders.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Remember joey.......let SHE who is without sin cast the first stone.......You've been casting like you've got a dump truck load in your backyard.........


You are awesome Nussa, just awesome.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Go back and read my post from which you quoted a couple of sentences. I updated it to be sure I was as clear as I could possibly be.


Knitry said:


> I think I've seen everything.
> 
> I should apologize to YOU because you can't figure it the hell out? YOUR inadequacies and unwillingness to give it a little brainpower should be a source of MY apology to YOU?
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yep joey,.....it's just like I said....you have yours and I have mine......why should I believe yours when I believe mine? And as I pointed out.....the sites you choose to go to are corrupt. I went to each one, and found that corruption. The internet websites are used by people to find info on certain things. But that doesn't mean it is the complete truth. Your sites gave certain peoples truth.....But there's no guarantee that it's accurate......And I think it's rather naive of anyone to take it as seriously as you do. It's like you think you're quoting the Bible.....It amazes me to see the lengths you'll go to, just to prove your opinion is the only one. 
I've heard it's called, having a superiority complex. You have to feel you are the best, and most importantly of all.....you have to have the last word. All I've ever asked of you is some rationality. But you don't seem to know how to reason without putting someone down because you feel threatened. It's such a shame, because you don't seem like an unintelligent person. You just don't seem to know how to use your intelligence. Oh well......(Shrug)...Whatchya gonna do? 

P.S. If there was the slightest shred of truth that President Obama wasn't a natural born Citizen, you can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn't have made it through his first term as president, much less have been elected to a second term. There just wasn't any, legal proof.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You can find it yourself, I'm tired of talking to a brick wall.

joeysomma

Irritating as H _ _ _ isn't it??????


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

NJG said:


> Hey, that is easy to do. I have read many many of her posts and all you have to do is read between the lines and know that she doesn't always say what she means. She tries to say it so it sounds nicer than it really is. No twisting was done. It wasn't necessary.


I'm sorry that you carry so much anger and resentment


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You are so blind that you haven't even noticed that I have never taken a staunch stand on either side. That's what makes you and me so completely diff. in our views. 
My eyes are wide open about what's going on in the world. But you believe only one thing can save it, and that's a republican run government. I don't care what side our President is from, as long as it's an good honest President. But we both know there is no such animal. The corruption is so wide spread that I don't think it can be reined in anymore. It's gone to far. But you unquestionably stick to that ONE side. To devote yourself so blindly to one thing would be no diff than the Germans who followed Hitler. 
You have nothing that I want to learn. Your whole attitude has a real creepy factor. You are way to far into the conspiracy theory's. Right now, the Republican party is so corrupt that it borders on treason. They will literally do anything to get rid of the Democrats, even if it means selling out to the Tea Party. I cannot go along with that. I will always choose the better person, and if neither is that great a person, I will always choose the lesser of the two evils.

Yes, it is very sad for your sheeples as well.....



joeysomma said:


> If it wasn't so sad that you are unwilling to learn what is going on around you, you would be funny!
> 
> There will come a time that the world will see that everything Obama stands for is nothing but a sham. You ask why people will not stand up and pursue this farther. People that get to close to exposing the truth die. Of course, that is not reported either, because if they did, they might die also.
> 
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Oh for pity's sake. Ken Burn's *asked* Obama to read the Nicolay (1st draft) version. Burns wanted it included in order to show that there are more than one version (in fact several more) versions of the Gettysburg Address. Lincoln wrote it...so are you now going to say that Lincoln was "godless?"


Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.

Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like to think it's only SOME Republicans who demonstrate such a lack of empathy for the rest of the world. Tea Party seems to have brought out the worst. May they rest in peace soon.



Nussa said:


> Thank you NJG for sharing what you did.
> I did write that paragraph you talk about, and like I said, I was then told I was bragging. I learned then not to be open with them, as they were looking for any excuse to ridicule you. So I'm glad you didn't.
> But I'd like you to know that your life has gone very much as mine has. Husbands dad a farmer. And my husband would love to farm, but in the 70's at the age of 17 when he graduated, they weren't just handing them out, so he worked hard, and became a lineman for a utility company. We have never wanted for anything that we really needed. And never wasted money on things we really didn't.
> We are also Methodist. )
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your thoughtful questions seem to have worked in that way. Thank you.



Nussa said:


> I rather felt they wouldn't. I guess I stumped them.....Nice not to see the insults though isn't it?
> 
> :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey, kindly address the issue at hand, Nussa's list of thoughtful questions, preferably one at a time.

Name calling means nothing to me or to anyone else.



joeysomma said:


> then you are blind or not looking


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> And I asked you a little while ago to explain what you "figured out" about the relationship between MLK and the violence and unrest that seemed, to you, to follow him wherever he went. I'd also like to have some more in-depth remarks from you about how that resembles the "polarizing" Obama may or may not be doing "for the very same reasons".
> 
> Your posts usually contain good sources to back them up. I don't recall you ever saying you "figured" something out.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :hunf:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> I like to think it's only SOME Republicans who demonstrate such a lack of empathy for the rest of the world. Tea Party seems to have brought out the worst. May they rest in peace soon.


Are you planning to murder them? Sounds like a threat to me.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.
> 
> Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


 :thumbup: Good Morning Lakes, I want to wish you a Merry christmas, have a safe Holiday and happy spinning.
Your Friend in Liberty,
Gali


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Living in AZ I have heard much of Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his posse for many years.

Maricopa County has spent millions paying off suits against the Sheriff's department. The Federal Justice Department has had to install a 'watch-dog' to enforce Racial Profiling. And the list goes on.

And, yes, such facts cast doubt on anything associated with them. Do you understand? If not, I will provide a sentence to write 5,000 times to help.



joeysomma said:


> Take your pick
> 
> http://beforeitsnews.com/obama-birthplace-controversy/2013/09/video-sheriff-joes-obama-investigator-mike-zullo-there-never-was-a-birth-in-hawaii-2467154.html
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see that you believe what you say. Do you understand that others see something different in what you say? Do you ever wonder why?



lovethelake said:


> It is unfathomable that you can not comprehend that for me (and none of my friends here) I do not disapprove of Obama because of his mixed race. I do not approve of any of his policies. Nothing more, nothing less. I have not posted any links that uses those disgusting words that you felt a need to list. They are not part of my language, and I have never heard of the term 'ghetto trash'. And 'colored' was only use in my presence by my grandmother when I was a very very very young child. And I was under the impression that the use of ******** was equal to the term whites. I never ever remembered using that term.
> 
> If Hilary runs for president and I disapprove of her policies does that make me a woman hater?
> 
> What 5 things has Obama done in the past 6 months that I could be proud of? Honestly I can think of nothing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When did this start Ms Tax Expert?



joeysomma said:


> http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_Assistance_SCRA.asp
> 
> As a person who makes loans to people based on a probable tax return, we cannot make a loan to active duty military since the rate is 36%.
> 
> http://www.uscg.mil/legal/la/Legal_Assistance_SCRA.asp


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Didn't see it. Maybe you could cut and paste? And there were many pertinent questions. How about them?



joeysomma said:


> I answered one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Joey, why is he still President? If it was actually proven that he was born in Kenya, where is the Republican outrage to get him out of the White House or are they part of the conspiracy?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How do you figure that? I see it the opposite way.



joeysomma said:


> If all you can do is call me names, I must be right!
> 
> Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wouldn't 'a block short of insanity' leave her on the sane side?
So does this mean you'd rather be a Country Bumpkin than sane?



Country Bumpkins said:


> I would rather be a Country Bumpkin than a block short of insanity!!! God Bless you again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like a way to stir up a war.



jelun2 said:


> I would love to know what people think about the idea floated by Republicans about dumping Medicare. I am thinking that perhaps it is a good one.
> Just think of the drain all of those 95 year olds are on the US economy.
> What do you all think?
> Is Newt Gingrich (and his fellow GOTPers) correct?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Now that you mention it, if it were up to me, it would last until the recipient got a job. I can assure you of one thing: the notion that people would prefer to collect unemployment instead of go back to work is as ridiculous as it is contemptuously insulting. Nor are the benefits that generous.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Rocky. Pertinent quote from Forbes, a conservative source.



rocky1991 said:


> I think that is fair. This what Forbes had to sayu're Rich. How Much More Tax Will You Pay In 2013?
> 
> If that title piqued your interest, youre probably rich. And if so, it hasnt been the greatest year for you: Obamacare upheld. No snow in Aspen. Romney lost. J.R. Ewing died. And to cap it all off, in the waning moments of 2012, Congress approved a fiscal cliff deal that is sure to lead to some uneasy moments in cavernous mansions all across the country.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> The rich do NOT pay their fair share. The top 1% own 40+% of all wealth in the U.S. and the bottom HALF own just 1%. Most of the income distribution 'gains' have all gone to the top 1%.
> 
> But you go right on believing that the rich are being treated unfairly. They won't give any more of a damn about you than they do now.
> 
> That's what always amuses me. Those who are sycophants and supporters and defenders of the vast wealth and privilege of the top 1-10% are just as meaningless to them as the rest of us. Oh, they need you, don't get me wrong. But there are an endless stream of "you" (and their propaganda is exceedingly strong), so you can -- and will -- be thrown over whenever it gets convenient for them to do so.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I think you just called most of the people on this site "Little Guys."
> How do all you LITTLE GUYS like that?
> 
> Looks like joey must be one of the WEALTHY. Because she would have never used that term to describe herself. No wonder she's so upset about the wealthy having to pay more taxes.....Her tax breaks will go down the toilet.....


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You say you want a rev-a-loo-tion? Come on GOP. It will be an eye-opener.



NJG said:


> Well, what I actually think would probably get me kicked off KP so I won't say it, but ya know it might be a good idea for the republicans to try that in 2014. Have you ever seen a bunch of grandpas and grandmas riot? The 95 year olds may have to stay home and man the phones, but I am sure the rest of us could take care of those sniveling whipper snappers. I would like to get my hands on Senator Grassley myself. That could be a lot of fun.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Oh, I HOPE so. It did wonders for Clinton's popularity, resulted in the founding of MoveOn which has been quite a force for leftwing politics over the years, and many other good things. The Republicans took quite a hit too since the American people understood very well that it was all just an ugly grudge, with no real "there" there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> It's ghastly, isn't it? It's difficult to imagine that -- even if they've never lived in poverty themselves -- that they lack that much imagination and empathy themselves. Like Romney and his 47% comment. It's just incomprehensible.


     Sad but so true.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Intelligent comment.....NOT.



joeysomma said:


> *100%? NOT*


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I bet that happens all the time. Right.



NJG said:


> You mean on $7.25 an hour, you can purchase $1800 worth of shares a year. Wow!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> More loopholes
> 
> CEO private security. A common corporate tax trick, according to the New York Times, is corporate boards paying for private jets and other perks for their CEOs under the guise of security. As Steven Davidoff reported, typically CEOs would have to pay taxes on these benefits, but if the benefit is classified as necessary for security purposes, the chief executive will pay a reduced tax bill or sometimes no tax at all.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the pertinent examples. Any justifications joey? Any answers on the questions from Nussa many pages ago? Let's stick to the topic at hand.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good point.



jelun2 said:


> And, of course, it isn't that those who pay taxes that are a bit higher are paying lots more... we pay that tiny little percentage on the income OVER the 200K not on the full amount of income and that is adjusted income, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You ignore the point. Some abuse the tax code by forming corporations only to reap huge tax benefits. Do you understand the point?



joeysomma said:


> These are corporations, totally different tax codes. I am only talking about individuals.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I think in this day and age with TV, internet, news 24/7, it's a lot easier to be informed than in Lincoln's day. So being a country bumpkin is not really a positive characterization. Education is the key to success.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Perfectly stated.
> 
> And there's more: They just couldn't stand the idea that a BLACK man had been elected President! PRESIDENT!! (It didn't help the Republican pollsters all thought Romney was going to win.) Democrat was bad enough, but a BLACK Democrat was all the worse. That was a major part of what was/is behind all that birth certificate nonsense, especially since the very subject drove home his blackness (Kenya and all, dontcha know?).
> 
> (Aside: with Ted Cruz's Presidential aspirations, you don't hear a word about HIS birth certificate or eligibility to run. Funny, huh?)


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh, they will if he runs. Won't last long. Too easy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Nussa. You deserve answers. If they have none, they should say so.



Nussa said:


> joey.......I've been waiting for you to respond to the sites you sent for me to check over. You know, the ones that say President Obama wasn't born in the USA?
> 
> I responded to you when you asked me to......Are you hiding from me? I thought you were the one with all the answers.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Many feel that providing washable products is most important.



west coast kitty said:


> which is great if that works for them --- Argentina produces some wonderful wool and blended yarns. Reminder that there are many acrylics and blends that cost more than wool, the fiber content alone is NOT an indicator of generosity.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Because you have no justification.



joeysomma said:


> You can talk about corporations with someone else.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Yep joey,.....it's just like I said....you have yours and I have mine......why should I believe yours when I believe mine? And as I pointed out.....the sites you choose to go to are corrupt. I went to each one, and found that corruption. The internet websites are used by people to find info on certain things. But that doesn't mean it is the complete truth. Your sites gave certain peoples truth.....But there's no guarantee that it's accurate......And I think it's rather naive of anyone to take it as seriously as you do. It's like you think you're quoting the Bible.....It amazes me to see the lengths you'll go to, just to prove your opinion is the only one.
> I've heard it's called, having a superiority complex. You have to feel you are the best, and most importantly of all.....you have to have the last word. All I've ever asked of you is some rationality. But you don't seem to know how to reason without putting someone down because you feel threatened. It's such a shame, because you don't seem like an unintelligent person. You just don't seem to know how to use your intelligence. Oh well......(Shrug)...Whatchya gonna do?
> 
> P.S. If there was the slightest shred of truth that President Obama wasn't a natural born Citizen, you can bet your bottom dollar he wouldn't have made it through his first term as president, much less have been elected to a second term. There just wasn't any, legal proof.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And truth?



west coast kitty said:


> I'm sorry that you carry so much anger and resentment


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are delusional. Get thee to a mental health facility asap.



joeysomma said:


> If it wasn't so sad that you are unwilling to learn what is going on around you, you would be funny!
> 
> There will come a time that the world will see that everything Obama stands for is nothing but a sham. You ask why people will not stand up and pursue this farther. People that get to close to exposing the truth die. Of course, that is not reported either, because if they did, they might die also.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wouldn't 'a block short of insanity' leave her on the sane side?
> So does this mean you'd rather be a Country Bumpkin than sane?


 :wink:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.
> 
> Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


Well, tell us, LTL: why do you believe Obama chose that particular version of the Gettysburg Address? This issue obviously has some special significance for you--why does it matter so much?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Hilarious! All the Libs are asking for answers to "Nussa's" questions while it was NJG who enumerated the list of questions!

Talk about the dumbness of sheep; all the Libs followed *right* along (including Nussa I bet)!

Baaa .. baah . baa!

:XD: :XD: :XD:    :-D :-D :-D


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hilarious! All the Libs are asking for answers to "Nussa's" questions while it was NJG who enumerated the list of questions!
> 
> Talk about the dumbness of sheep; all the Libs followed right along!
> 
> ...


My, someone's full of the holiday spirit!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hilarious! All the Libs are asking for answers to "Nussa's" questions while it was NJG who enumerated the list of questions!
> 
> Talk about the dumbness of sheep; all the Libs followed *right* along (including Nussa I bet)!
> 
> ...


All sarcasm aside, those sheep are pretty cute. I've always thought goats (particularly the baby ones with their mamas) were awfully sweet as well.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You are so blind that you haven't even noticed that I have never taken a staunch stand on either side. That's what makes you and me so completely diff. in our views.
> My eyes are wide open about what's going on in the world. But you believe only one thing can save it, and that's a republican run government.*I don't care what side our President is from, as long as it's an good honest President.* But we both know there is no such animal. The corruption is so wide spread that I don't think it can be reined in anymore. It's gone to far. But you unquestionably stick to that ONE side. To devote yourself so blindly to one thing would be no diff than the Germans who followed Hitler.
> You have nothing that I want to learn. Your whole attitude has a real creepy factor. You are way to far into the conspiracy theory's. Right now, the Republican party is so corrupt that it borders on treason. They will literally do anything to get rid of the Democrats, even if it means selling out to the Tea Party. I cannot go along with that. I will always choose the better person, and if neither is that great a person, I will always choose the lesser of the two evils.


You know who I'd like to see a lot more of on the Republican side? John Huntsman.

(The bolded part is what I wanted to respond to, but the rest of that was so good I couldn't bear to delete it!! LOL.)


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You do know LTL.......your obsession with this inane subject Is doing nothing but show everyone that you can't have an intelligent adult conversation. You pick a subject that requires no real thought, and rag on it because you can't take on anything that might actually take some thought. Find a new subject.......you are boring people to death........Or maybe that is your strategy?
Oh, but no.........President Obama in your opinion (SHOULD HAVE KNOWN) that reading that particular draft was going to cause problems......REALLY???? Believe it or not.....he has a real life, unlike you, who has nothing better to do than think stupid......I think it's time you buried that dead horse. And you wonder why people think you're laughable. :roll: 


lovethelake said:


> Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.
> 
> Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> You ignore the point. Some abuse the tax code by forming corporations only to reap huge tax benefits. Do you understand the point?


And that's not the only abuse.

Probably most people here know that Subchapter S Corporations were created for very small businesses, offering certain legal protections while not forcing the small business to jump through quite so many hoops like big corporations.

9quote0The S corporation is often more attractive to small-business owners than a standard (or C) corporation. That's because *an S corporation has some appealing tax benefits and still provides business owners with the liability protection of a corporation*. With an S corporation, income and losses are passed through to shareholders and included on their individual tax returns. As a result, there's just one level of federal tax to pay.

A corporation must meet certain conditions to be eligible for a subchapter S election. First, the corporation must have no more than 75 shareholders. In calculating the 75-shareholder limit, a husband and wife count as one shareholder. Also, only the following entities may be shareholders: individuals, estates, certain trusts, certain partnerships, tax-exempt charitable organizations, and other S corporations (but only if the other S corporation is the sole shareholder). http://www.entrepreneur.com/encyclopedia/subchapter-s-corporation [/quote]

Well, the next time you hear John Boehner or any other Republican talk about how important this or that is for "small businesses," he's NOT likely to be talking about the corner pizzeria or even the local McDonald's franchise. He's talking about the Koch brothers, two of the wealthiest people in the United States who run their business as a "small business." I'm sure the Koch Brothers aren't the only ones abusing the system, but they're most likely the most egregious offenders.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think in this day and age with TV, internet, news 24/7, it's a lot easier to be informed than in Lincoln's day. So being a country bumpkin is not really a positive characterization. Education is the key to success.


Being informed is one thing, but being brainwashed by today's mass media is totally different, and unless one is educated in, among other things, logical thinking, the latter passes for truth. In Lincoln's day the dissemination of information was of appropriate speed (newpapers, telegraph,etc.), but they were also well grounded in Judeo-Christian principles, found in the Bible, and had a deep respect for ancient Greek and Roman philosphers/orators. Those 'country bumpkins', those living outside of large cities and on farms, then and now, knew/know the difference between right and wrong because their consciences were formed on solid principles. That, ultimately, is all you need to be well informed.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

KPG,

I find what you write very intelligent, informative and right on the mark. Thank you for all you do here.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Being informed is one thing, but being brainwashed by today's mass media is totally different, and unless one is educated in, among other things, logical thinking, the latter passes for truth. In Lincoln's day the dissemination of information was of appropriate speed (newpapers, telegraph,etc.), but they were also well grounded in Judeo-Christian principles, found in the Bible, and had a deep respect for ancient Greek and Roman philosphers/orators. Those 'country bumpkins', those living outside of large cities and on farms, then and now, knew/know the difference between right and wrong because their consciences were formed on solid principles. That, ultimately, is all you need to be well informed.


Jokim,

You are so wise. Thank you for this great post.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Being informed is one thing, but being brainwashed by today's mass media is totally different, and unless one is educated in, among other things, logical thinking, the latter passes for truth. In Lincoln's day the dissemination of information was of appropriate speed (newpapers, telegraph,etc.), but they were also well grounded in Judeo-Christian principles, found in the Bible, and had a deep respect for ancient Greek and Roman philosphers/orators. Those 'country bumpkins', those living outside of large cities and on farms, then and now, knew/know the difference between right and wrong because their consciences were formed on solid principles. That, ultimately, is all you need to be well informed.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I find what you write very intelligent, informative and right on the mark. Thank you for all you do here.


Me too.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Go back and read my post from which you quoted a couple of sentences. I updated it to be sure I was as clear as I could possibly be.


Is this what you wanted me to be sure and see:


MaidInBedlam said:


> It surprises me that you would expect to ever get an apology from me. I think I'd rather you apologize to me for your useless subtlety, and your snotty attitude. Looks like neither of us should hold our breaths waiting for apologies. it does seem that you aren't a racist pig. It looks like you are much younger than me, if you were too young to be concerned with link between MLK and racial unrest. The age gap between us would hint that you are an ageist pig instead.


Well, first, I specifically said I did NOT "expect" an apology from you.

So, you want me to know that you now consider me an ageist instead of a racist? But that you still don't apologize for the racist part?

I see. Okay, duly noted. I'm so glad you forced me to see that.

Before I go, let me help you with a little more reading comprehension. "Be concerned with" isn't necessarily the same as "understanding the causes of." If one is aware of and pondering an issue, that alone demonstrates at least a small level of "concern," wouldn't you say? Having the wherewithal to figure out cause and effect and the various socio-cultural dynamics is an entirely different matter, especially for someone "young and foolish and not very interested in or aware of current events or history."

But I dunno, all that may be too subtle for you.

I'd tell you my age if (1) I gave a damn what you think at this point and (2) didn't think you'd probably just accuse me of lying.

Edited to add: Just in case you respond to this, do NOT expect me to be at your beck and call to respond. I expect to be away from the computer all day.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I find what you write very intelligent, informative and right on the mark. Thank you for all you do here.


Yes, LL is right. Your posts, KPG, are always on the mark! Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Awe.........KPG's answer to every legitimate question, because she's not intelligent enough to form a grown up answer....
Pretty-pretty pictures.... Did you color this one all by yourself? Oh...you did such a good job! Now you go back to your room, and get your colors and make us another pretty-pretty picture...

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:



knitpresentgifts said:


> Hilarious! All the Libs are asking for answers to "Nussa's" questions while it was NJG who enumerated the list of questions!
> 
> Talk about the dumbness of sheep; all the Libs followed *right* along (including Nussa I bet)!
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I see all KPG's friends have finally gotten here to bolster her ego...Really? Just the fact that you agree with her foolishness is very telling....But you keep up the good work. I know she needs the support. I do understand that she has problems. And she really does need the support. But if you were really her friends, you wouldn't be dragging her down the "stupid hole" right behind you. If you were good friends, you leave her alone. She doesn't need your kind of help....


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry, in response to your post to me on page 54, racism is endemic and systematic, throughout the US. It cuts across all party lines and a lot of social lines as well. It is also so deeply ingrained that many people don't and can't think about whether it's allowed, enabled or indulged. Most Americans can't dissect their racism deeply enough to even find it. 

Sure, if there is an example of clear, obvious, outright racism (or other bigotry, or other wrongdoing) some Americans will stand up and yell "That's not right!" Some of them will be Democrats, some Republicans. Those who stand up will be as diverse as the population of this country. They also won't add up to anything approaching a majority of Americans. 

The catch is defining a "clear, obvious, outright racism (or other bigotry, or other wrongdoing)" That's the big downside to the fact that racism and bigotry are too deeply ingrained to be understood by the very people who are trying to figure out if they are even seeing a clear example of racism or bigotry, etc. Add in the couch potatoes, who spend their time plopped in front of the TV or their Playstations or iPhones and all that other junk all the time that they can't even realize there's more to this world than the narrow rut they live in, and the silence becomes deafening. It will be a cold day in a very hot place before the brain dead couch potatoes wake up and see the greater world around them.

I don't think most people want to condone any injustice by remaining silent. I think there is too much silence in the face of injustices because too many people don't realize their definition of injustice is sorely limited.

In response to your post to me on this page, I looked up your profile and we are almost the same age. This tells me you might not ne an ageist, but I don't know what your developmental age is. As I said above, racism is too deeply ingrained in too many Americans for them to even find it. I think I'll consign you to that majority. 

Being aware of something and understanding the causes of something doesn't mean concern follows automatically. People are really good at ignoring what they don't want to be concerned with no matter how great their awareness. 

Both of us are in luck today. I'm heading to the kitchen to do a bunch of baking, the living room to do a bunch of tree decorating and the list goes on. 'Tis the season to be busy away from the computer.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I see all KPG's friends have finally gotten here to bolster her ego...Really? Just the fact that you agree with her foolishness is very telling....But you keep up the good work. I know she needs the support. I do understand that she has problems. And she really does need the support. But if you were really her friends, you wouldn't be dragging her down the "stupid hole" right behind you. If you were good friends, you leave her alone. She doesn't need your kind of help....


You are right, she does not need our help. But being good friends, we would never leave her alone - as you suggest. I detect anger here and jealousy on your part. I wish you would leave us alone.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, she does not need our help. But being good friends, we would never leave her alone - as you suggest. I detect anger here and jealousy on your part. I wish you would leave us alone.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Here we go with the jealousy again.... :roll: That's your fall back line. 
I was just trying to be subtle. What I am saying is, stop using her. She follows you like you are gods, and wants so badly to believe you are right. I don't want to see her drug down your delusional path...She has her own problems and doesn't need to be ostracized by everyone else because of people like you. I personally believe she is a good person at heart, but tends to latch on to the first person who is nice to her and would follow them into the depths of Hell, just to be a part of the group. I'm concerned for HER..... I could care less about you and the others. It's called compassion.....you may not know that word. Look it up.


Lukelucy said:


> You are right, she does not need our help. But being good friends, we would never leave her alone - as you suggest. I detect anger here and jealousy on your part. I wish you would leave us alone.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

There are liberal threads you can go to that we are not there. That way you don't have to read our opinions and love for each other. I don't think any of us post there anymore. POv or something and LOLL. I am sure you can blast us there if you like. Blessing and peace to you this Christmas.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you want to comment on the information in the websites I have posted on Obama's birth certificate, or lack thereof, I will comment.
> The copies of the birth certificates mentioned in the article are on the website.
> 
> Sheriff Joe: 'Show me the microfilm!'
> ...


Unfortunately you are serious...........mind boggling. Why is Obama still President if he was not born in this country? His mother was an American, just because his father was a Kenyan,it still makes him an American. Do you believe anything other than RW claptrap?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Unfortunately you are serious...........mind boggling. Why is Obama still President if he was not born in this country? His mother was an American, just because his father was a Kenyan,it still makes him an American. Do you believe anything other than RW claptrap?


Stunning--the ultra-conservatives aren't going to let this one go until the day Obama leaves office.
What always amazes me is how little faith these GOPers have in their chosen leaders. They truly must believe that Boehner and the others have been duped, blackmailed, or bribed into letting Obama remain in the White House.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If it wasn't so sad that you are unwilling to learn what is going on around you, you would be funny!
> 
> There will come a time that the world will see that everything Obama stands for is nothing but a sham. You ask why people will not stand up and pursue this farther. People that get to close to exposing the truth die. Of course, that is not reported either, because if they did, they might die also.
> 
> ...


Your alternate reality world is your protection from the real world. I am amazed that you are so insulated from what is really happening in the real world. It astounds me that you still believe that Obama is not an American. Do you lack faith in your Republican party that they would not have proven that he is an illegally elected President? You and the Birthers totally irrational.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.
> 
> Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


I could care less that he left out G-d in the address, who cares? Just because you use the words doesn't mean anything, unless you live the words. From what I see on this forum, few of you live the words.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, she does not need our help. But being good friends, we would never leave her alone - as you suggest. I detect anger here and jealousy on your part. I wish you would leave us alone.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Are you planning to murder them? Sounds like a threat to me.


Project much? How on earth do you interpret "MURDER" from what what was actually written?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Stunning--the ultra-conservatives aren't going to let this one go until the day Obama leaves office.
> What always amazes me is how little faith these GOPers have in their chosen leaders. They truly must believe that Boehner and the others have been duped, blackmailed, or bribed into letting Obama remain in the White House.


Perhaps it will be after o leaves office that the truth about his birthplace will finally be known.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Being informed is one thing, but being brainwashed by today's mass media is totally different, and unless one is educated in, among other things, logical thinking, the latter passes for truth. In Lincoln's day the dissemination of information was of appropriate speed (newpapers, telegraph,etc.), but they were also well grounded in Judeo-Christian principles, found in the Bible, and had a deep respect for ancient Greek and Roman philosphers/orators. Those 'country bumpkins', those living outside of large cities and on farms, then and now, knew/know the difference between right and wrong because their consciences were formed on solid principles. That, ultimately, is all you need to be well informed.


Really? You make everyone back them so well eucated. I think not so much. Not everyone was an intellectual back then or are they now.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Perhaps it will be after o leaves office that the truth about his birthplace will finally be known.


Why on earth would your GOP leaders want to wait so long? Don't you think they'd rather have Obama tossed out of office straight away rather than engage in three more years of gridlock?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Perhaps it will be after o leaves office that the truth about his birthplace will finally be known.


Idiocy is running rampant. Gotta love someone who holds on to fairy tales well into their adult years.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Really? You make everyone back them so well eucated. I think not so much. Not everyone was an intellectual back then or are they now.


So true, Rocky. Somehow I can't imagine Jed Clampett being well-grounded in Plato, Virgil, or Ovid.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why on earth would your GOP leaders want to wait so long? Don't you think they'd rather have Obama tossed out of office straight away rather than engage in three more years of gridlock?


Truth will always come out. How quickly? Depends on who allows it to come to light.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Truth will always come out. How quickly? Depends on who allows it to come to light.


Dream on...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I find what you write very intelligent, informative and right on the mark. Thank you for all you do here.


Ha! I don't know what brought on this praise, but just know your Christmas bonus for a job well done is in the mail! :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> You are so wise. Thank you for this great post.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too.


Oh, man, this is gonna cost me big  your Christmas Bonus is in the mail on its way to you too.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ha! I don't know what brought on this praise, but just know your Christmas bonus for a job well done is in the mail! :-D


Thank you!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Yes, LL is right. Your posts, KPG, are always on the mark! Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


Ok - enough! Not sure what started the prostration of praise of me just to get me to pay back in kind?

I know it sounds cliche, but the check is in the mail for your kindness Jokim!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Perhaps it will be after o leaves office that the truth about his birthplace will finally be known.


I agree - and a whole lot more. Perhaps Obama will want to go back to home-sweet-home and Chicago be forgotten?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree - and a whole lot more. Perhaps Obama will want to go back to home-sweet-home and Chicago be forgotten?


It's asking too much. Hope he goes far, far away.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Really? You make everyone back them so well eucated. I think not so much. Not everyone was an intellectual back then or are they now.


Not everyone was an intellectual, but most had a solid grounding in morality, something that is woefully lacking today.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It's asking too much. Hope he goes far, far away.


LL and KPG, the truth always comes out in the end. It might take more time, it might take less time, but it comes out. Can't run away from it.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ha! I don't know what brought on this praise, but just know your Christmas bonus for a job well done is in the mail! :-D


I'm donating mine to charity! :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> You're a bit behind the times Loloweygirl. (Back on page 39) I was the first one to tell this post what, and how my family worked hard to earn what we have. And that I was proud of what we had attained in our 50 some years. And I was told by, your......ummm....I'm sorry, but I can not in good consensus call them "ladies", that I was BRAGGING. Then I'm told by Joey that she has owned her own home since the age of 40, and travels all the time....So she's telling me she's well off. And did I call her a braggart, no, I said "Good for you." And I meant it sincerely.
> I wasn't one of those going around telling everyone, "Oh, your just jealous of us, because you're poor, and don't have what we have."
> So soloweygirl.....get your facts straight before you put your foot in our mouth again.
> The only people here who have been pounding their chests are your, "whatever they are." (I'm still looking for the proper word to use for them that would suit their dispositions.) All they do is spew lies, hate and poison.
> ...


I have my facts straight and am not behind the times at all. This topic has come up several times before within these political threads, you weren't the first to offer some personal history.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I will watch with baited breath for answers, or at least debate about these questions. Start counting.


Why hold your breath? Why not respond to some of the questions?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I have my facts straight and am not behind the times at all. This topic has come up several times before within these political threads, you weren't the first to offer some personal history.


I read the quote that your quote above refers to, Solo. It is full of hate, you can feel it seeping from every letter of every word of hers. And as far as blaming the president, who was it that blamed, AND IS STILL BLAMING, Pres. Bush for everything that went wrong in this country? Bravo Solo, for stating the truth and setting them straight! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL and KPG, the truth always comes out in the end. It might take more time, it might take less time, but it comes out. Can't run away from it.


I'll be happy when it does. Jokim, do you think the truth comes out for EVERYTHING??


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> What it all boils down to is the rich have become too greedy. The more money they had to stick in their pocket, they more they wanted. They thought, we will get rid of the unions, so the worker bees won't have anyone to stand up for them. They will just have to do their job and take the pay we give them. We won't raise the minimum wage and will get rid of it if we can. Food stamps will be a thing of the past. If you don't work, you don't eat, and if there aren't enough jobs available, well that will just eliminate the weaker ones first. Lets also curtail all those people from voting. Ya know, its just "those people" and who cares if they have a voice. They are uneducated and ignorant so it doesn't matter what they think. They don't need to vote. This is a white Christian country and we want it back. That is the way it should be, don't ya think.
> 
> Can't you just see republicans sitting in a meeting plotting all this.


Sifting through all your BS is seems clear that you think only Republicans are rich and want to keep their money. Sorry to disappoint, but there are quite a number of Democrats that are rich and fit into your little category nicely as well. I bet when you looked into that meeting, you couldn't begin to tell who is who in the room.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sifting through all your BS is seems clear that you think only Republicans are rich and want to keep their money. Sorry to disappoint, but there are quite a number of Democrats that are rich and fit into your little category nicely as well. I bet when you looked into that meeting, you couldn't begin to tell who is who in the room.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I think in this day and age with TV, internet, news 24/7, it's a lot easier to be informed than in Lincoln's day. So being a country bumpkin is not really a positive characterization. Education is the key to success.


If you and your liberal friends think that education is indeed the key to success, why don't you want the minimum wage earners to get a better education? Why do you just want to increase their wage, not their skills or education? Why do you want them to stay where they are? This sentiment has been broadcast loud and clear from you and your friends in these threads for a long time.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL 

READ THIS:


ObamaCare's Troubles Are Only Beginning

Be prepared for eligibility, payment and information protection debaclesand longer waits for care.

By Michael J. Boskin 

Dec. 15, 2013 6:24 p.m. ET

The White House is claiming that the Healthcare.gov website is mostly fixed, that the millions of Americans whose health plans were canceled thanks to government rules may be able to keep them for another year, and that in any event these people will get better plans through ObamaCare exchanges. Whatever the truth of these assertions, those who expect better days ahead for the Affordable Care Act are in for a rude awakening. The shockseconomic and politicalwill get much worse next year and beyond. Here's why:

The "sticker shock" that many buyers of new, ACA-compliant health plans have experiencedwith premiums 30% higher, or more, than their previous coveragehas only begun. The costs borne by individuals will be even more obvious next year as more people start having to pay higher deductibles and copays. 

If, as many predict, too few healthy young people sign up for insurance that is overpriced in order to subsidize older, sicker people, the insurance market will unravel in a "death spiral" of ever-higher premiums and fewer signups. The government, through taxpayer-funded "risk corridors," is on the hook for billions of dollars of potential insurance-company losses. This will be about as politically popular as bank bailouts. 

This December 3, 2013 photo shows a message indicating that a connection cannot be established with the HealthCare.gov insurance marketplace internet site. Bloomberg News 

The "I can't keep my doctor" shock will also hit more and more people in coming months. To keep prices to consumers as low as possiblegiven cost pressures generated by the government's rules, controls and coverage mandatesinsurance companies in many cases are offering plans that have very restrictive networks, with lower-cost providers that exclude some of the best physicians and hospitals. 

Next year, millions must choose among unfamiliar physicians and hospitals, or paying more for preferred providers who are not part of their insurance network. Some health outcomes will deteriorate from a less familiar doctor-patient relationship. 

More IT failures are likely. People looking for health plans on ObamaCare exchanges may be able to fill out their applications with more ease. But the far more complex back-office side of the websitewhere the information in their application is checked against government databases to determine the premium subsidies and prices they will be charged, and where the applications are forwarded to insurance companiesis still under construction. Be prepared for eligibility, coverage gap, billing, claims, insurer payment and patient information-protection debacles.

The next shock will come when the scores of millions outside the individual marketpeople who are covered by employers, in union plans, or on Medicare and Medicaidexperience the downsides of ObamaCare. There will be longer waits for hospital visits, doctors' appointments and specialist treatment, as more people crowd fewer providers. 

Those with means can respond to the government-driven waiting lines by making side payments to providers or seeking care through doctors who do not participate in insurance plans. But this will be difficult for most people. 

Next, the Congressional Budget Office's estimated 25% expansion of Medicaid under ObamaCare will exert pressure on state Medicaid spending (although the pressure will be delayed for a few years by federal subsidies). This pressure on state budgets means less money on education and transportation, and higher state taxes. 

The "Cadillac tax" on health plans to help pay for ObamaCare starts four years from this Jan. 1. It will fall heavily on unions whose plans are expensive due to generous health benefits. 

In the nearer term, a political iceberg looms next year. Insurance companies usually submit proposed pricing to regulators in the summer, and the open enrollment period begins in the fall for plans starting Jan. 1. Businesses of all sizes that currently provide health care will have to offer ObamaCare's expensive, mandated benefits, or drop their plans andexcept the smallest firmspay a fine. Tens of millions of Americans with employer-provided health plans risk paying more for less, and losing their policies and doctors to more restrictive networks. The administration is desperately trying to delay employer-plan problems beyond the 2014 election to avoid this shock. 

Meanwhile, ObamaCare will lead to more part-time workers in some industries, as hours are cut back to conform to arbitrary definitions in the law of what constitutes full-time employment. Many small businesses will be cautious about hiring more than 50 full-time employees, which would subject them to the law's employer insurance mandate. 

On the supply side, medicine will become a far less attractive career for talented young people. More doctors will restrict practice or retire early rather than accept lower incomes and work conditions they did not anticipate. Already, many practices are closed to Medicaid recipients, some also to Medicare. The pace of innovation in drugs, medical devices and delivery is expected to slow significantly, as higher taxes and even rationing set in.

The repeated assertions by the law's supporters that nobody but the rich would be worse off was based on a beyond-implausible claim that one could expand by millions the number of people with health insurance, lower health-care costs without rationing, and improve quality. The reality is that any squeezing of insurance-company profits, or reduction in uncompensated emergency-room care amounts to a tiny fraction of the trillions of dollars extracted from those people overpaying for insurance, or redistributed from taxpayers. 

The Affordable Care Act's disastrous debut sent the president's approval ratings into a tailspin and congressional Democrats in competitive districts fleeing for cover. If the law's continuing unpopularity enables Republicans to regain the Senate in 2014, the president will be forced to veto repeated attempts to repeal the law or to negotiate major changes. 

The risk of a complete repeal if a Republican takes the White House in 2016 will put enormous pressure on Democratic candidatesand on Republicansto articulate a compelling alternative to the cost and coverage problems that beset health care. A good start would be sliding-scale subsidies to help people buy a low-cost catastrophic plan, purchasable across state lines, equalized tax treatment of those buying insurance on their own with those on employer plans, and expanded high-risk pools.

 Mr. Boskin, an economics professor at Stanford University and senior fellow at the Hoover Institution, was chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers under President George H.W. Bush.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thank you for the pertinent examples. Any justifications joey? Any answers on the questions from Nussa many pages ago? Let's stick to the topic at hand.


Why are you harping on Joey to answer Nussa's questions? When I did that to Nussa, she promptly told me to mind my own business. Now I'll say it to you. Mind your own business.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Being informed is one thing, but being brainwashed by today's mass media is totally different, and unless one is educated in, among other things, logical thinking, the latter passes for truth. In Lincoln's day the dissemination of information was of appropriate speed (newpapers, telegraph,etc.), but they were also well grounded in Judeo-Christian principles, found in the Bible, and had a deep respect for ancient Greek and Roman philosphers/orators. Those 'country bumpkins', those living outside of large cities and on farms, then and now, knew/know the difference between right and wrong because their consciences were formed on solid principles. That, ultimately, is all you need to be well informed.


Thank you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS:
> 
> ...


The trouble just doesn't seem to stop. The latest delays and exceptions that are intended to assist customers who were prevented from signing up by the website may also cause more confusion and complicate the process even more.

WH is urging insurance companies to accept payments beyond 1.1.14. HHS is asking insurers to allow customers to temporarily continue filling prescriptions covered by a previous plan. Government also requested insurers treat out-of-network providers as in-network providers in emergency cases. HHS wants people who have had trouble signing up through federal or state exchanges will be allowed to enroll AFTER the deadline and still qualify for coverage effective 1/1/14. HHS also wants to give consumers more time to pay their premiums.

The SHOP application- which allows small businesses to sigh up for insurance - on the Federal exchange has also been delayed. It has been delayed on year. The spanish language function will also be delayed, as it is months behind schedule.

I'm sure there will be more.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Not everyone was an intellectual, but most had a solid grounding in morality, something that is woefully lacking today.


Slavery, Jim Crow, blatant discrimination against women and various minority groups--yup, our predecessors were reliable moral compasses.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> ObamaCare's Troubles Are Only Beginning
> 
> The Affordable Care Act's disastrous debut sent the president's approval ratings into a tailspin and congressional Democrats in competitive districts fleeing for cover. *If the law's continuing unpopularity enables Republicans to regain the Senate in 2014, the president will be forced to veto repeated attempts to repeal the law or to negotiate major changes. *


I'm looking forward to watching this play out.



Lukelucy said:


> The risk of a complete repeal if a Republican takes the White House in 2016 will put enormous pressure on Democratic candidatesand on Republicansto articulate a compelling alternative to the cost and coverage problems that beset health care.


Perhaps, now, the Repubs will begin speaking louder and clearer about their proposals and the Dems will shut up and listen for once.



Lukelucy said:


> A good start would be sliding-scale subsidies to help people buy a low-cost catastrophic plan, purchasable across state lines, equalized tax treatment of those buying insurance on their own with those on employer plans, and expanded high-risk pools.


Some of the Repub's ideas already put forth ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes, I was watching all about it on TV today, and it looks like the Republican's are slowly sliding back into reality. They are starting to meet with more of the Democrats. And before you start: This is what I heard on TV, spoken from some announcers mouths.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Some of the Repub's ideas already put forth ...


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I'll be happy when it does. Jokim, do you think the truth comes out for EVERYTHING??


If there is someone left alive with a tale to tell, it will come out. Sometimes it comes out 'post mortem'. There will always be people demanding the truth and people eager to tell it, for whatever reason.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Not everyone was an intellectual, but most had a solid grounding in morality, something that is woefully lacking today.


You are so wrong. But far be it for me to burst your bubble.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I read the quote that your quote above refers to, Solo. It is full of hate, you can feel it seeping from every letter of every word of hers. And as far as blaming the president, who was it that blamed, AND IS STILL BLAMING, Pres. Bush for everything that went wrong in this country? Bravo Solo, for stating the truth and setting them straight! :thumbup: :thumbup:


it was Bush's fault. And then the Republicans made it even more difficult for Obama by being obstructionists. Nothing new here,


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If you and your liberal friends think that education is indeed the key to success, why don't you want the minimum wage earners to get a better education? Why do you just want to increase their wage, not their skills or education? Why do you want them to stay where they are? This sentiment has been broadcast loud and clear from you and your friends in these threads for a long time.


I hope they do seek more education, but by keeping the minimum wage so low, do they have a choice. food, shelter,take precedence. It's hard to think about education when you can't pay for food, or shelter. Just meeting the basic necessities is difficult.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sifting through all your BS is seems clear that you think only Republicans are rich and want to keep their money. Sorry to disappoint, but there are quite a number of Democrats that are rich and fit into your little category nicely as well. I bet when you looked into that meeting, you couldn't begin to tell who is who in the room.


Great job, Solo!
How full of hate they must be to write such trash, Solo. They are brainwashed robots, programmed to say and feel only one thing: hate. They do not want to hear or see reason and logic. They don't know what reason, logic and civility are. What they say gives us an insight into their minds and MO.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> FROM THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
> 
> READ THIS:
> 
> ...


More doom and gloom, are you gleefully rubbing your hands together. YAY Obamacare is failing!! Way to go RW!!


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see that you believe what you say. Do you understand that others see something different in what you say? Do you ever wonder why?


If you answered my question to list 5 positive things Obama accomplished in 2013 you might just give me food for thought


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, tell us, LTL: why do you believe Obama chose that particular version of the Gettysburg Address? This issue obviously has some special significance for you--why does it matter so much?


It bothers me that out of 37 people he was the only one to read the draft without God. If he truly cared to honor the Gettysburg Address he would not have dishonored the Address, the one on the Lincoln Memorial. Besides that, why would he do such a thing except to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself. Either way shows no class.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

sorry, it was a double post


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> It bothers me that out of 37 people he was the only one to read the draft without God. If he truly cared to honor the Gettysburg Address he would not have dishonored the Address, the one on the Lincoln Memorial. Besides that, why would he do such a thing except to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself. Either way shows no class.


I do not think it was to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself, I suppose he either did it because it was the copy he was given or to upset the severely religious people of the Knitting Paradise Forum.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You're right susanmos2000.....The Republican's have failed miserably, but it's something the Repubs on this site just can't comprehend. They will fight to the death, their right to try to convince you all, that President Obama hasn't been our duly elected president for one term, or that he will be allowed to stay for the rest of his second term. They think that by posting all the propaganda they have found online, and convincing others to believe it, they will save the country from what they believe is a menace. Oh....some will believe, but not enough people will believe so as to push a Republican into office. The Republican's have disgraced themselves, and aren't even smart enough to understand what they've done......They're like a litter of puppies who keep pooping in the same corner of the living room, & no matter how many times they get their noses rubbed in it, they keep going back and pooping in that same corner. And that seems to be how the Republican supporters on this post are acting. Well, if you want to keep getting your noses rubbed in it, that's okay with me?


susanmos2000 said:


> Stunning--the ultra-conservatives aren't going to let this one go until the day Obama leaves office.
> What always amazes me is how little faith these GOPers have in their chosen leaders. They truly must believe that Boehner and the others have been duped, blackmailed, or bribed into letting Obama remain in the White House.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Some of the Repub's ideas already put forth ...


Obamacare must go - along with BO.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm sorry that you carry so much anger and resentment


No anger and resentment, just see it for what it is.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If it wasn't so sad that you are unwilling to learn what is going on around you, you would be funny!
> 
> There will come a time that the world will see that everything Obama stands for is nothing but a sham. You ask why people will not stand up and pursue this farther. People that get to close to exposing the truth die. Of course, that is not reported either, because if they did, they might die also.
> 
> ...


Who died?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, you name 5 good things the Republican's have done in 2013.......Oh that's right......Nothing......they kept congress tied up all year so NOTHING could get done.....I don't think you or any Republican is qualified to ask that question.....


lovethelake said:


> If you answered my question to list 5 positive things Obama accomplished in 2013 you might just give me food for thought


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, you name 5 good things the Republican's have done in 2013.......Oh that's right......Nothing......they kept congress tied up all year so NOTHING could get done.....I don't think you or any Republican is qualified to ask that question.....


One good thing they did was try to stop Obamacare! Yea for them!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I suggest you hold your breath until that happens okay? We'll let you know when it's happened so you can start breathing again.....Oh dear...that won't work at all will it. You'll be six feet under.......Oh well......don't you let that stop you.... :lol:


Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare must go - along with BO.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I don't think we can count that one, as they failed miserably. Try again???


Lukelucy said:


> One good thing they did was try to stop Obamacare! Yea for them!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe it is the reason he didn't take the 20 minute helicopter flight to honor the 150th anniversary of the Gettysburg Address. Maybe he was trying to sign up for Obamacare , the website was down, and he didn't have the time. Oh wait, he exempted himself from his 'Signature Legislation' so maybe he was practicing another fundraising speech or taking a nap. Or maybe he just likes reading drafts and that is the reason he lied about Obamacare.
> 
> Regardless of the reason, he should have known that reading that draft would cause him problems. If he is as smart as he wants us to believe, shouldn't he have done the real Gettysburg Address, the one Lincoln gave? With all the problems with the IRS, NSA, Benghazi, Red Lines, Obamacare, why intentionally do something to draw more criticism to himself? If Ken Burns asked him to jump off a bridge would he do it? Maybe he is just a puppet and can only do what he is told to do by the teleprompter.


Face it, no matter what he did it would be wrong, so why do you complain so much. You don't expect him to do anything the right way to please you so why not just STFU.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, I don't think we can count that one, as they failed miserably. Try again???


It's not over yet... Obamacare will kill itself.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Slavery, Jim Crow, blatant discrimination against women and various minority groups--yup, our predecessors were reliable moral compasses.


Solid grounding in Judeo-Christian based morality defeated slavery, and Jim Crow laws, etc... True freedom is found in God's law not in man's theory.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Solid grounding in Judeo-Christian based morality defeated slavery, and Jim Crow laws, etc... True freedom is found in God's law not in man's theory.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Then why talk about it? Tell you what, If ACA should fail, you can come back and tell us I told you so Okay? Otherwise hows about you do what NJG said. 


Lukelucy said:


> It's not over yet... Obamacare will kill itself.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> It bothers me that out of 37 people he was the only one to read the draft without God. If he truly cared to honor the Gettysburg Address he would not have dishonored the Address, the one on the Lincoln Memorial. Besides that, why would he do such a thing except to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself. Either way shows no class.


Hmm...well, I very much doubt Obama wanted to dishonor Lincoln's memory or show him any disrespect as he, Lincoln, was instrumental in restoring the Union and freeing the slaves.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> It's not over yet... Obamacare will kill itself.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Solid grounding in Judeo-Christian based morality defeated slavery, and Jim Crow laws, etc... True freedom is found in God's law not in man's theory.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Good people defeated slavery.....Not just one person. It took many compassionate people to end it. So you two can stop preaching to people....unless you are ordained ministers. In that case get yourself a church to preach in. I already have a church and preacher.


Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Solid grounding in Judeo-Christian based morality defeated slavery, and Jim Crow laws, etc... True freedom is found in God's law not in man's theory.


Sorry, I believe you need to brush up on the history of the Civil Rights movement. The South was desegregated at federal gunpoint. Without that kind of intervention there's no telling how long segregation would have lasted--the Southerners (Christian or otherwise) absolutely refused to abolish it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Good people defeated slavery.....Not just one person. It took many compassionate people to end it. So you two can stop preaching to people....unless you are ordained ministers. In that case get yourself a church to preach in. I already have a church and preacher.


Thank you but no.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't need a church to spread the gospel in.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't need a church to spread the gospel in.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Good people defeated slavery.....Not just one person. It took many compassionate people to end it. So you two can stop preaching to people....unless you are ordained ministers. In that case get yourself a church to preach in. I already have a church and preacher.


You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.

It took a LEADER to _abolish_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So what you're doing is asking us to leave a public posting site? You must think we have a Republic president.....sorry, if you don't like us here, you can leave....believe me, no ones feelings will be hurt....


Country Bumpkins said:


> There are liberal threads you can go to that we are not there. That way you don't have to read our opinions and love for each other. I don't think any of us post there anymore. POv or something and LOLL. I am sure you can blast us there if you like. Blessing and peace to you this Christmas.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, you name 5 good things the Republican's have done in 2013.......Oh that's right......Nothing......they kept congress tied up all year so NOTHING could get done.....I don't think you or any Republican is qualified to ask that question.....


I was right, he did accomplish nothing, except to be the conductor on the Obamacare train wreck choo choo. But the fact that Dems control the WH and the Senate, and he still accomplished nothing, can't be Bush's fault. Maybe the fact that almost 70% of the country don't want Obamacare, or his approval ratings are in the tank, and he won the number one liar award, Edward Snowden, Benghazi, Red Lines, NSH IRS, Obamacare website crashing all the time, selfies.......had something to do with his lack of accomplishments.

He would have had so much more respect if he had kept his eye on Obamacare, admit that there were horrific problems (and still are) with the website, not excluded Federal employees and himself, unions, corporations and postpone implementation for a year. Unfortunately for the country, his arrogant ego got in the way, and was incapable of admitting what a disaster Obamacare is in its present form. A real leader would have admitted Obamacare's problems and sought to delay it so that when launched it would work.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was right, he did accomplish nothing, except to be the conductor on the Obamacare train wreck choo choo. But the fact that Dems control the WH and the Senate, and he still accomplished nothing, can't be Bush's fault. Maybe the fact that almost 70% of the country don't want Obamacare, or his approval ratings are in the tank, and he won the number one liar award, Edward Snowden, Benghazi, Red Lines, NSH IRS, Obamacare website crashing all the time, selfies.......had something to do with his lack of accomplishments.
> 
> He would have had so much more respect if he had kept his eye on Obamacare, admit that there were horrific problems (and still are) with the website, not excluded Federal employees and himself, unions, corporations and postpone implementation for a year. Unfortunately for the country, his arrogant ego got in the way, and was incapable of admitting what a disaster Obamacare is in its present form. A real leader would have admitted Obamacare's problems and sought to delay it so that when launched it would work.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I heard today that there are 5 lawsuits brought against that Couch kid that killed those 4 people while driving drunk. His parents and his fathers company are included. They have done such a horrible job raising that kid, the only way to make them all understand is in the pocketbook. Maybe when he gets out of rehab he and his parents won't be quite as rich as they are now. His parents are divorced and his father gifted him the house he lived in alone. It sounded like it may have been the family home. As soon as the accident Ethan was boasting to his friends to stick with him and he would get them all out of it cause he was Ethan Couch. Sounds like he never had to answer for anything in his life, just did whatever he wanted. Wonder if this will make his parents understand where they went wrong. Hope the judge is taken off the bench. She does not deserve to be a judge.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I never said any of that. I said I go to church where I listen to my minister preach.....so why are you so miffed? I didn't use any bad words. All I suggested was you refer back to another post. I haven't shown any hate to anyone. I may have insinuated that some people behave very moronically.....
And you are saying not a single republican supporter has not used derogatory words to others? If you are, that would be a lie. 
It takes people to build a church. You used the word Christians I believe. There are a lot of Christians out in the world. And there are a lot of people who claim to be Christian who don't act it. You have broadcast your self centered Christianity to everyone on this site. I have not once proclaimed to be anything but someone who strives to be a good Christian. I don't trust self proclaimed Christians. If you have to try to convince people you are a Christian, then you must have many doubts about it yourself. 
That's the diff. between you and me. I post an opinion, and you can take it or leave it. YOU preach your opinion and then run off at the mouth prophesying of their damnation when they don't believe as you preach....GREAT BIG DIFFERENCE I say.


knitpresentgifts said:


> You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.
> 
> It took a LEADER to _end_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach anyone here or anywhere.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh, they will if he runs. Won't last long. Too easy.


It will come back to haunt him soon. I don't think a lot of republicans like Teddy. They blame him for the government shut down, although they all followed him like little sheeple.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Because you have no justification.


She is proud of all the dirty tricks they pull.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> 
> You are so wise. Thank you for this great post.


Don't you sheeple get tired of kissing each others behinds?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I was right, he did accomplish nothing, except to be the conductor on the Obamacare train wreck choo choo. But the fact that Dems control the WH and the Senate, and he still accomplished nothing, can't be Bush's fault. Maybe the fact that almost 70% of the country don't want Obamacare, or his approval ratings are in the tank, and he won the number one liar award, Edward Snowden, Benghazi, Red Lines, NSH IRS, Obamacare website crashing all the time, selfies.......had something to do with his lack of accomplishments.
> 
> He would have had so much more respect if he had kept his eye on Obamacare, admit that there were horrific problems (and still are) with the website, not excluded Federal employees and himself, unions, corporations and postpone implementation for a year.


Unfortunately, a twelve-month postponement of the ACA would have meant another twelve months of the Republicans in Congress spending all their working hours trying to repeal it--and very little else. Government gridlock, shutdowns, world leaders sweating buckets out of fear for their own economies--would we really want to go through all that again?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I could care less that he left out G-d in the address, who cares? Just because you use the words doesn't mean anything, unless you live the words. From what I see on this forum, few of you live the words.


He didn't leave it out and they know that. They just like slamming him and believing that God likes them talking that way. Saying the word over and over means nothing unless you live with God in your life. We know that's not happening by the way you talk and show so little respect for our president. Someday they will find out. It will be so hot where they are going.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Really? You make everyone back them so well eucated. I think not so much. Not everyone was an intellectual back then or are they now.


Brainwashed is a good word for the repubs on this forum. All they do is kiss each others butt and tell each other how wonderful and awesome they are. When you feel so insecure , I guess it helps to keep going if someone is telling you those kind of things, even though they are lies.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I never said any of that. I said I go to church where I listen to my minister preach.....so why are you so miffed?





nussa said:


> In that case *get* yourself *a church to preach in.* I already *have a church and preacher*.


Oh, yes, I forgot to say you cannot remember what nor admit what you write nor comprehend that which you read but you do lie really well. Better skedaddle to _your _church and get preached _to._ Repent and ask for forgiveness while you are there on bended knees so you don't waste your trip before your fall.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> He didn't leave it out and they know that. They just like slamming him and believing that God likes them talking that way.


I agree with you, NJG. The conservative flap over Obama's reading of the Gettysburg address is possibly the silliest attack ever. I believe they initially weren't aware that there were five different versions and that Obama simply read the one that was handed him--now they know, but they'll never admit they were wrong.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It's asking too much. Hope he goes far, far away.


I'll bet he won't be going away like Bush has. Have you noticed, he isn't in the news since he left office. None of the rep candidates in 2012 asked him to campaign for them. They don't want anything to do with him. Even his Mother thinks we have had enough of the Bushes. She sounds like the only one in the family with at least half a brain.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I read the quote that your quote above refers to, Solo. It is full of hate, you can feel it seeping from every letter of every word of hers. And as far as blaming the president, who was it that blamed, AND IS STILL BLAMING, Pres. Bush for everything that went wrong in this country? Bravo Solo, for stating the truth and setting them straight! :thumbup: :thumbup:


Bush was blamed because he is guilty. President Obama has not been able to pass things because of the republicans, so Bush and thee republicans are still to blame.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sifting through all your BS is seems clear that you think only Republicans are rich and want to keep their money. Sorry to disappoint, but there are quite a number of Democrats that are rich and fit into your little category nicely as well. I bet when you looked into that meeting, you couldn't begin to tell who is who in the room.


The democrats will not be talking the way the republicans do. These are the ones at the first meeting and who knows how many meetings there have been since then.

According to Draper, the guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If you and your liberal friends think that education is indeed the key to success, why don't you want the minimum wage earners to get a better education? Why do you just want to increase their wage, not their skills or education? Why do you want them to stay where they are? This sentiment has been broadcast loud and clear from you and your friends in these threads for a long time.


No, it is you saying that is what we think. You always do that, think you are smart enough to tell us what we think.. Sorry to burst your bubble, but you're not. You have no clue. How many times have we said they need money to go to college or technical school or whatever they desire. They are not going to live and save for college on 7.25 per hour. You just don't listen or comprehend, not sure which it is.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> It bothers me that out of 37 people he was the only one to read the draft without God. If he truly cared to honor the Gettysburg Address he would not have dishonored the Address, the one on the Lincoln Memorial. Besides that, why would he do such a thing except to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself. Either way shows no class.


Your problem is you know know nothing about God so this is just your lame excuse to slam the president again and try to make yourself look like Christians. It's not working. Everyone important knows the truth and the rest of you don't matter. People who care about this country have moved on from your lies, so give it a rest.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I do not think it was to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself, I suppose he either did it because it was the copy he was given or to upset the severely religious people of the Knitting Paradise Forum.


Also several of the right wing webb sites have corrected the mistake they made about this. But not you sheeple, just continue with the lie Oh I would love to see you pay the price for the things you say and believe. It will not be pretty. Judgement day is coming sheeple. Get ready.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> You're right susanmos2000.....The Republican's have failed miserably, but it's something the Repubs on this site just can't comprehend. They will fight to the death, their right to try to convince you all, that President Obama hasn't been our duly elected president for one term, or that he will be allowed to stay for the rest of his second term. They think that by posting all the propaganda they have found online, and convincing others to believe it, they will save the country from what they believe is a menace. Oh....some will believe, but not enough people will believe so as to push a Republican into office. The Republican's have disgraced themselves, and aren't even smart enough to understand what they've done......They're like a litter of puppies who keep pooping in the same corner of the living room, & no matter how many times they get their noses rubbed in it, they keep going back and pooping in that same corner. And that seems to be how the Republican supporters on this post are acting. Well, if you want to keep getting your noses rubbed in it, that's okay with me?


Good one Nussa, that pooping in the corner thing. How many times have they said they need to learn how to talk to women, not talk about rape, work on immigration reform. What happened to that autopsy the republican party was suppose to have? It is still needed.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> One good thing they did was try to stop Obamacare! Yea for them!


The key word there is try. They were not successful.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, I believe you need to brush up on the history of the Civil Rights movement. The South was desegregated at federal gunpoint. Without that kind of intervention there's no telling how long segregation would have lasted--the Southerners (Christian or otherwise) absolutely refused to abolish it.


And there are many in the south and these republicans on this forum would love it to come back.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.
> 
> It took a LEADER to _abolish_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere.


quote: you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere

And neither do you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Good one Nussa, that pooping in the corner thing. How many times have they said they need to learn how to talk to women, not talk about rape, work on immigration reform. What happened to that autopsy the republican party was suppose to have? It is still needed.


How about this analogy from the National Journal?

"For Democrats, the tea party is the gift that keeps on giving. For Republicans, the group is something akin to a flesh-eating virus that threatens to chomp away at the GOP."

Pretty funny!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How about this analogy from the National Journal?
> 
> "For Democrats, the tea party is the gift that keeps on giving. For Republicans, the group is something akin to a flesh-eating virus that threatens to chomp away at the GOP."
> 
> Pretty funny!


 :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:  :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

A letter to Megyn Kelly concerning her comments on Santa Claus and Jesus. 

Dear Ms. Kelly:

As a scholar with two doctorates in the field of early Christianity (specializing in the Christian East), I was appalled to hear your remarks about the presumed race of both Santa Claus and Jesus.

You correctly stated that the mythical figure of Santa Claus is based on an historical figure, St. Nicholas. St. Nicholas was the bishop of Myra, a city near the southern coast of Asia Minor (modern-day Turkey). First of all, modern categories of black and white are just that  modern  whereas race was understood differently in the ancient world. St. Nicholas was not white if by white you mean European. He most certainly was not a pale-skinned, red-cheeked, obese, married man, as Santa Claus is typically portrayed in contemporary American culture. Rather, St. Nicholas was an unmarried, ascetic (i.e., thin through fasting), Mediterranean/Middle Eastern bishop, so the notion of the contemporary Santa Claus being black is no further removed from the historical reality than his being fat, married, and white.

Even more disconcerting was your equally inaccurate assertion that Jesus was white. Jesus was, of course, Jewish, and so was racially Semitic, at a time when there was very little intermarriage of Jews with non-Jews. This means that Jesus would have had black or very dark brown hair, dark brown eyes, and olive skin, with Middle Eastern facial features, including probably a large nose. He was most certainly not a white European. The portraits of Jesus that I have seen in Protestant churches and homes throughout the country depicting him with light brown or even blue eyes, light brown (almost blond) hair, and clearly European facial features is as historically inaccurate as any black/African Jesus.

Ironically, then, It appears that you are as concerned to make important figures such as Jesus and St. Nicholas/Santa Claus similar to your own cultural and racial identity as is Aisha Harris. Perhaps you should be more sympathetic to her position.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry....we don't kneel....


knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, yes, I forgot to say you cannot remember what nor admit what you write nor comprehend that which you read but you do lie really well. Better skedaddle to _your _church and get preached _to._ Repent and ask for forgiveness while you are there on bended knees so you don't waste your trip before your fall.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Awe soloweygirl hasn't been back to refute your evidence. She must be working her bony fingers to the nub trying to find something to post so she can get back at you.....that's their MO you know...
:lol:


NJG said:


> The democrats will not be talking the way the republicans do. These are the ones at the first meeting and who knows how many meetings there have been since then.
> 
> According to Draper, the guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Sorry....we don't kneel....


Of course, _ you _ don't because you only go to a church. All Christians and believers kneel.

Romans 14:11

_As surely as I live says the Lord, "Every knee will bow before me and every tongue confess and acknowledge God." _


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Knitry, in response to your post to me on page 54, racism is endemic and systematic, throughout the US. It cuts across all party lines and a lot of social lines as well. It is also so deeply ingrained that many people don't and can't think about whether it's allowed, enabled or indulged. Most Americans can't dissect their racism deeply enough to even find it.
> 
> Sure, if there is an example of clear, obvious, outright racism (or other bigotry, or other wrongdoing) some Americans will stand up and yell "That's not right!" Some of them will be Democrats, some Republicans. Those who stand up will be as diverse as the population of this country. They also won't add up to anything approaching a majority of Americans.
> 
> ...


I'm baffled. Do you imagine that I am somehow interested in what you have to say about this -- or anything? Or that I would be in any way interested in engaging in a conversation about this (or anything) with you? If so, you are as wrong about that as you are about everything else (that I know of) about me. Further, how amusing that you think you have anything to teach or enlighten me about regarding racism. Unless you are a person of color yourself, or the mother (or perhaps grandmother) of one, that's not likely to be the case (especially judging from what you've written here and elsewhere in this thread). It's not that I think I know it all -- any white person almost always has more to learn -- just that you've proven you don't have a clue about what I do know.



> In response to your post to me on this page, I looked up your profile and we are almost the same age. This tells me you might not ne an ageist, but I don't know what your developmental age is.


And you might not be an idiot. But then again, you might.

Your mention of developmental age causes me to wonder about what might be the developmental age of someone so unable to admit error that she can't even bring herself to apologize to someone she mistakenly and unfairly lobbed an unfair, ill-advised, misguided and thoroughly inaccurate ad hominem attack against. But nevermind. Merely a rhetorical question.



> As I said above, racism is too deeply ingrained in too many Americans for them to even find it. I think I'll consign you to that majority.


Such a "consignment" would be entirely consistent with the level of intellectual laziness (and possibly intellectual dishonesty) and absence of rigor you've already amply demonstrated.

One final thing: let me again disabuse you of the notion that I am in any way interested in what you have to say about ANYthing. So we're done here. I'll have nothing more to say to you.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How about this analogy from the National Journal?
> 
> "For Democrats, the tea party is the gift that keeps on giving. For Republicans, the group is something akin to a flesh-eating virus that threatens to chomp away at the GOP."
> 
> Pretty funny!


LOL. That IS funny. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you, NJG. The conservative flap over Obama's reading of the Gettysburg address is possibly the silliest attack ever. I believe they initially weren't aware that there were five different versions and that Obama simply read the one that was handed him--now they know, but they'll never admit they were wrong.


Further proof, should you or anyone need it, of something I think I've said several times: to them a lie is as good as the truth and they can't really tell the difference anyway.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh Ye of the abundant stupidity......thou must be the greatest heathen in all the land........Believe it or not, I am allowed to worship any way I please. Which makes you a raciest against my chosen religion.

How dare you presume to be God........I believe in our one true God.....But the bible was written by man.....it's basically a manual to live your life by. Do I believe every word written in it? NO, because MAN is flawed, which you prove every time you open your mouth. I believe in GOD. So you can take your Holier than thou Bible quotes and shove them where the sun don't shine. 


knitpresentgifts said:


> Of course, _ you _ don't because you only go to a church. All Christians and believers kneel.
> 
> Romans 14:11
> 
> _As surely as I live says the Lord, "Every knee will bow before me and every tongue confess and acknowledge God." _


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.
> 
> It took a LEADER to _abolish_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere.


And where, pray tell, is your love and compassion during this season of Advent? Can you ever stop telling people what a Christian you are and then in the next sentence call people names, denigrate them, call them liars and fools. Practice what you preach. It's pretty easy to be kind to those who lick your boots, but not so easy for you to be kind to people who disagree with you. Please stop giving Christians a bad name.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, I believe you need to brush up on the history of the Civil Rights movement. The South was desegregated at federal gunpoint. Without that kind of intervention there's no telling how long segregation would have lasted--the Southerners (Christian or otherwise) absolutely refused to abolish it.


There wouldn't have been any desegregation, at gunpoint or otherwise, if it were not for Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. and others, people of the cloth included.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Good people defeated slavery.....Not just one person. It took many compassionate people to end it. So you two can stop preaching to people....unless you are ordained ministers. In that case get yourself a church to preach in. I already have a church and preacher.


I don't presume to preach to any one, just stating the facts.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Good people defeated slavery.....Not just one person. It took many compassionate people to end it. So you two can stop preaching to people....unless you are ordained ministers. In that case get yourself a church to preach in. I already have a church and preacher.


Good people, well-grounded in Judeo-Christian morality, defeated slavery.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.
> 
> It took a LEADER to _abolish_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere.


Bravo, KPG! :thumbup: 
Your description of Christians is very fitting, and you're right, the Church is not a building but a body of people in communion of praise and thanksgiving to God!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, you may not realize it, but you do.


Jokim said:


> I don't presume to preach to any one, just stating the facts.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> Bush was blamed because he is guilty. President Obama has not been able to pass things because of the republicans, so Bush and thee republicans are still to blame.


He gets things done by executive fiat, or by having the Senate change the rules to suit the dems. when they are losing. Don't blame the Republicans for blocking him when his party controls 66.67% of the government.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I don't think either of you knows what a real Christian is.....Neither of you IME are a true Christian. You are Christian wannabes. The more you preach......the more of your true selves you show....Keep up the good work....Everyone should know who and what you are. You two aren't even smart enough to be false prophets.....Intelligent people don't believe in people like you. But being a Christian myself, which I'm sure you will debate as you know everything, I feel sorry for those that do believe you. Maybe you need to go and read that Bible that KPG is always quoting from......not that you'd understand it.....because the Republican's didn't write it.


Jokim said:


> Bravo, KPG! :thumbup:
> Your description of Christians is very fitting, and you're right, the Church is not a building but a body of people in communion of praise and thanksgiving to God!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Such a "consignment" would be entirely consistent with the level of intellectual laziness (and possibly intellectual dishonesty) and absence of rigor you've already amply demonstrated.
> 
> One final thing: let me again disabuse you of the notion that I am in any way interested in what you have to say about ANYthing. So we're done here. I'll have nothing more to say to you.


Thank God for small favors. You're a real piece of work.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jokim said:


> He gets things done by executive fiat, or by having the Senate change the rules to suit the dems. when they are losing. Don't blame the Republicans for blocking him when his party controls 66.67% of the government.


What? Does the president have a vote when it comes to enacting laws? Please enlighten me.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obamacare must go - along with BO.


Broken record, anything new LL?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> One good thing they did was try to stop Obamacare! Yea for them!


Did they succeed? Did they waste time and money, for sure.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Solid grounding in Judeo-Christian based morality defeated slavery, and Jim Crow laws, etc... True freedom is found in God's law not in man's theory.


In the name of G-ed many lives have been lost. I have no use for a G-d like that. However since men declare war in the name of G-d I can not blame her.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have nothing but hate for all humanity with whom you do not agree. You don't have a clue what being a Christian means. I've been told you said your words define you. Well, if I you, I'd be shaking in my boots with your disgusting words that I read in the past and the vile statements along with your support of all your vulgar-mouthed Liberal buddies.
> 
> It took a LEADER to _abolish_ slavery - it wasn't "defeated." Christians _ are _ the Church, it isn't a building they go to or 'have' as you stated. Because you enter, doesn't make you or keep you one of the Faithful any more than entering McDonald's makes you a Cheeseburger. Christians don't go anywhere to be 'preached' to, don't 'have' preachers, and you don't have the Faith, Compassion or Knowledge to reach or teach anyone here or anywhere.


Touched a nerve..............BAAAAAAD Liberals!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What? Does the president have a vote when it comes to enacting laws? Please enlighten me.


He has changed the O'care law several time by dictate.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Jokim said:


> He has changed the O'care law several time by dictate.


I guess he can. Let's put the ACA for now.
But tell me more. The Dems control 66% of the government? Is that why so much good legislation has come out of Congress? Do they control the Judicial branch of the government too?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You mean like the when the House Republicans Changed The Rules So A Majority Vote Couldn't Stop The Government Shutdown?

In its effort to extract concessions from Democrats in exchange for opening the government, the GOP has faced a fundamental strategic obstacle: They don't have the votes. A majority of the members of the House have gone on record saying that if they were given the opportunity to vote, they would support what's known as a "clean" continuing resolution to fund the government.

So House Republican leaders made sure no such vote could happen.

In the hours working up to the government shutdown on Sept. 30, Republican members of the House Rules Committee were developing a strategy to keep a clean CR off the floor, guaranteeing the government would remain shut down.

Though at least 28 House Republicans have publicly said they would support a clean CR if it were brought to the floor -- enough votes for the government to reopen when combined with Democratic support -- a House rule passed just before the shutdown essentially prevents that vote from taking place.

Sorry, but after that stunt you and any republican have lost the right to whine about anything that you think is unethical....


Jokim said:


> He has changed the O'care law several time by dictate.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've reviewed back to page 40 and didn't see answers to Nussa's questions. I guess that's an answer in itself. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> You do know LTL.......your obsession with this inane subject Is doing nothing but show everyone that you can't have an intelligent adult conversation. You pick a subject that requires no real thought, and rag on it because you can't take on anything that might actually take some thought. Find a new subject.......you are boring people to death........Or maybe that is your strategy?
> Oh, but no.........President Obama in your opinion (SHOULD HAVE KNOWN) that reading that particular draft was going to cause problems......REALLY???? Believe it or not.....he has a real life, unlike you, who has nothing better to do than think stupid......I think it's time you buried that dead horse. And you wonder why people think you're laughable. :roll:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Pretty deep in here.



Lukelucy said:


> KPG,
> 
> I find what you write very intelligent, informative and right on the mark. Thank you for all you do here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And maybe her friends can all take turns telling her what a great artist she is.



Nussa said:


> Awe.........KPG's answer to every legitimate question, because she's not intelligent enough to form a grown up answer....
> Pretty-pretty pictures.... Did you color this one all by yourself? Oh...you did such a good job! Now you go back to your room, and get your colors and make us another pretty-pretty picture...
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I see all KPG's friends have finally gotten here to bolster her ego...Really? Just the fact that you agree with her foolishness is very telling....But you keep up the good work. I know she needs the support. I do understand that she has problems. And she really does need the support. But if you were really her friends, you wouldn't be dragging her down the "stupid hole" right behind you. If you were good friends, you leave her alone. She doesn't need your kind of help....


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We were hoping the very same thing of you. Looks like none of us are going to get our wish. At times you are amusing, many times just sad.



Lukelucy said:


> You are right, she does not need our help. But being good friends, we would never leave her alone - as you suggest. I detect anger here and jealousy on your part. I wish you would leave us alone.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And if Cruz is the GOP nominee..........they'll get it pushed in their faces. Blimey hypocrites.



susanmos2000 said:


> Stunning--the ultra-conservatives aren't going to let this one go until the day Obama leaves office.
> What always amazes me is how little faith these GOPers have in their chosen leaders. They truly must believe that Boehner and the others have been duped, blackmailed, or bribed into letting Obama remain in the White House.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Your alternate reality world is your protection from the real world. I am amazed that you are so insulated from what is really happening in the real world. It astounds me that you still believe that Obama is not an American. Do you lack faith in your Republican party that they would not have proven that he is an illegally elected President? You and the Birthers totally irrational.


And delusional.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now, if you say "you must die," that is a clear threat and we haven't forgotten.



rocky1991 said:


> Project much? How on earth do you interpret "MURDER" from what what was actually written?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

And they tend to disappear when they hit a tough question that they can't answer. Or someone, "one ups" them. Then they come back with a whole new subject they have looked up on a website. But they seem to forget that.....believe it or not, WE CAN GO TO WEBSITES TOO!! :shock: So it doesn't take long to shoot their credibility out of the water....I'd have to vote for SAD.....they are pathetic more often than amusing....



damemary said:


> We were hoping the very same thing of you. Looks like none of us are going to get our wish. At times you are amusing, many times just sad.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's asinine. It has been thoroughly investigated by both parties. There is NO WAY he would be in office for 5 years with 3 more to go if there were reasonable doubt. Give it up unless you have nothing else to add. Then go ahead.



Jokim said:


> Perhaps it will be after o leaves office that the truth about his birthplace will finally be known.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Santa Claus is coming to town.



rocky1991 said:


> Idiocy is running rampant. Gotta love someone who holds on to fairy tales well into their adult years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> So true, Rocky. Somehow I can't imagine Jed Clampett being well-grounded in Plato, Virgil, or Ovid.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh we Democrats are powerful. Don't dare to oppose us. We're just getting started. A true liberal agenda for next time.



Jokim said:


> Truth will always come out. How quickly? Depends on who allows it to come to light.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And perhaps Hillary Rodham Clinton will decide to run on a true liberal health care agenda. Perhaps someone else will be nominated.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I agree - and a whole lot more. Perhaps Obama will want to go back to home-sweet-home and Chicago be forgotten?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And you and your kith and kin have neither intellect or moral grounding. Shameful.



Jokim said:


> Not everyone was an intellectual, but most had a solid grounding in morality, something that is woefully lacking today.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Baited breath is not holding your breath, dimwit. You are confused. Go back to sleep.



soloweygirl said:


> Why hold your breath? Why not respond to some of the questions?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You people are foolish.....not worth noticing. It's just fun to chase an insect sometimes.



Jokim said:


> I read the quote that your quote above refers to, Solo. It is full of hate, you can feel it seeping from every letter of every word of hers. And as far as blaming the president, who was it that blamed, AND IS STILL BLAMING, Pres. Bush for everything that went wrong in this country? Bravo Solo, for stating the truth and setting them straight! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And your point is....?????? We know there are many rich liberals. The difference is in their attitude to their fellow man. Start with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, for example. You have no idea what you're trying to do.

You can always go offend women or minorities some more. More votes for our side. Thanks.



soloweygirl said:


> Sifting through all your BS is seems clear that you think only Republicans are rich and want to keep their money. Sorry to disappoint, but there are quite a number of Democrats that are rich and fit into your little category nicely as well. I bet when you looked into that meeting, you couldn't begin to tell who is who in the room.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Silly solo. Never heard that one before. It's the GOP that wants to cut Head Start etc. You've lost your way.



soloweygirl said:


> If you and your liberal friends think that education is indeed the key to success, why don't you want the minimum wage earners to get a better education? Why do you just want to increase their wage, not their skills or education? Why do you want them to stay where they are? This sentiment has been broadcast loud and clear from you and your friends in these threads for a long time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Free country. I think I'll do as I please. Thank you.



soloweygirl said:


> Why are you harping on Joey to answer Nussa's questions? When I did that to Nussa, she promptly told me to mind my own business. Now I'll say it to you. Mind your own business.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Slavery, Jim Crow, blatant discrimination against women and various minority groups--yup, our predecessors were reliable moral compasses.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: They just jump in and drown in their own manure.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> it was Bush's fault. And then the Republicans made it even more difficult for Obama by being obstructionists. Nothing new here,


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can't think your way out of the outhouse.



lovethelake said:


> If you answered my question to list 5 positive things Obama accomplished in 2013 you might just give me food for thought


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Works for me.



rocky1991 said:


> I do not think it was to dishonor Lincoln's address or to call attention to himself, I suppose he either did it because it was the copy he was given or to upset the severely religious people of the Knitting Paradise Forum.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Works for me too. We've tried truth and logic & gotten nowhere.



Nussa said:


> You're right susanmos2000.....The Republican's have failed miserably, but it's something the Repubs on this site just can't comprehend. They will fight to the death, their right to try to convince you all, that President Obama hasn't been our duly elected president for one term, or that he will be allowed to stay for the rest of his second term. They think that by posting all the propaganda they have found online, and convincing others to believe it, they will save the country from what they believe is a menace. Oh....some will believe, but not enough people will believe so as to push a Republican into office. The Republican's have disgraced themselves, and aren't even smart enough to understand what they've done......They're like a litter of puppies who keep pooping in the same corner of the living room, & no matter how many times they get their noses rubbed in it, they keep going back and pooping in that same corner. And that seems to be how the Republican supporters on this post are acting. Well, if you want to keep getting your noses rubbed in it, that's okay with me?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's because she thought the hole was the way out....


damemary said:


> You can't think your way out of the outhouse.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That has been found to be a very bad move on their part. It is widely acknowledged to have been smarter to let the law rise or fail on its own. And cheaper too.

-


Lukelucy said:


> One good thing they did was try to stop Obamacare! Yea for them!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, I believe you need to brush up on the history of the Civil Rights movement. The South was desegregated at federal gunpoint. Without that kind of intervention there's no telling how long segregation would have lasted--the Southerners (Christian or otherwise) absolutely refused to abolish it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tomato Tomatoe.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Of course, _ you _ don't because you only go to a church. All Christians and believers kneel.
> 
> Romans 14:11
> 
> _As surely as I live says the Lord, "Every knee will bow before me and every tongue confess and acknowledge God." _


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great!!!!



susanmos2000 said:


> How about this analogy from the National Journal?
> 
> "For Democrats, the tea party is the gift that keeps on giving. For Republicans, the group is something akin to a flesh-eating virus that threatens to chomp away at the GOP."
> 
> Pretty funny!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ROFL I'm laughing out loud.



Nussa said:


> That's because she thought the hole was the way out....
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, you may not realize it, but you do.


No she does not. Another twist of the truth.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Broken record, anything new LL?


It cannot be said enough.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Did they succeed? Did they waste time and money, for sure.


They spoke volumes. Let the truth be known.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

damemary said:


> We were hoping the very same thing of you. Looks like none of us are going to get our wish. At times you are amusing, many times just sad.


I really do not care what you think.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> They spoke volumes. Let the truth be known.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're the ones twisting in the wind.



Lukelucy said:


> No she does not. Another twist of the truth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what is this cryptic message supposed to mean? Please don't bother trying unless you can compose a complete thought. Maybe you can all get together and try. Or give up and have a Tea Party without bothering others.



Lukelucy said:


> It cannot be said enough.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The truth is known. The GOP wasted time, effort and money to try, try again to derail ACA. It was found by all polls to be unpopular with most of the country, Republicans and Democrats alike.

No, no, no is not an adequate response.



Lukelucy said:


> They spoke volumes. Let the truth be known.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't bother me a bit.



Lukelucy said:


> I really do not care what you think.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Just popping in real quick to drop an F-bomb, I'll call it, since Fracking has been a subject here. Some of you will no doubt find this a hunky dory idea. I'm hoping those of you who DON'T will be ready to take steps against it if the half-baked idea gets any farther than this conference.



> *Fracking as the way to dispose of nuclear waste*
> SAN FRANCISCO  Nuclear waste could one day be disposed of by injecting it into fracking boreholes in the Earth, at least if one scientist's idea takes hold.
> The method, presented here Monday at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union, would mix nuclear waste with other heavy materials, and inject it a few miles below the Earth's surface into drilled holes. The key is that, unlike fluids used in most hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," the nuclear slurry would be heavier than the rock in which it is injected.
> "It's basic physics here  if it's heavier than rock, the fracture will propagate down," said study co-author Leonid Germanovich, a physicist and civil and environmental engineer at the Georgia Institute of Technology. In theory, then, the nuclear waste would inch downward, going deeper into the Earth over time.
> ...


I sure as heck hope it doesn't take an "expert" to think "there are too many practical and safety concerns for the scheme" to be a good idea, never mind working or not.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, this place is full of twisted truths isn't it. And if you are the good Christian person you claim to be you will have to admit that your side twists it just as much as any other.
Think hard before you answer, remember # 9, Thou shalt not bare false witness against they neighbor.....


Lukelucy said:


> No she does not. Another twist of the truth.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, this place is full of twisted truths isn't it. And if you are the good Christian person you claim to be you will have to admit that your side twists it just as much as any other.
> Think hard before you answer, remember # 9, Thou shalt not bare false witness against they neighbor.....


I have never written that I was a good or bad Christian. You are twisting words again. I am tired of you and your posts. You will not hear from me again as I will not read your "twisting of words" any more. What a huge waste of time you are.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Good people, well-grounded in Judeo-Christian morality, defeated slavery.


I don't think that's all it took. It was also an economic war.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It cannot be said enough.


You don't say anything enlightening just agree with anything your cohorts say. You bring nothing to the conversation.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They spoke volumes. Let the truth be known.


What has the volumes they spoke do?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have never written that I was a good or bad Christian. You are twisting words again. I am tired of you and your posts. You will not hear from me again as I will not read your "twisting of words" any more. What a huge waste of time you are.


Won't be missed. You have nothing of interest to add to this or any other conversation.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have never written that I was a good or bad Christian. You are twisting words again. I am tired of you and your posts. You will not hear from me again as I will not read your "twisting of words" any more. What a huge waste of time you are.


LL, I'm sure your time is much more important than to waste it on reading their comments.
:lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I don't think that's all it took. It was also an economic war.


If it was an economic war, slavery would still be alive and well. Perhaps, with the advent of technology, it would have gone the way of the buggy whip. No, it was a war of moral values, and Judeo-Christian values won! :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Anyone care to read this:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/17/it-s-conservatives-who-really-want-christ-out-of-christmas.html

I found it interesting.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> If it was an economic war, slavery would still be alive and well. Perhaps, with the advent of technology, it would have gone the way of the buggy whip. No, it was a war of moral values, and Judeo-Christian values won! :thumbup:


You simplify too much. It was also an economic war.
http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> If it was an economic war, slavery would still be alive and well. Perhaps, with the advent of technology, it would have gone the way of the buggy whip. No, it was a war of moral values, and Judeo-Christian values won! :thumbup:


Give me a break. The Bible _condones_ slavery:

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Awe soloweygirl hasn't been back to refute your evidence. She must be working her bony fingers to the nub trying to find something to post so she can get back at you.....that's their MO you know...
> :lol:


And now the republicans are attacking each other, which do them a lot of good, don't ya think. The Senate Conservatives Fund, Heritage Action and Club for Growth and Freedomworks have been attacking Boehner and McConnell, comparing them to the IRS. Those groups are now backing the tea party candidates running against them. Ryan is still kissing on both sides so have to see how long he is able to do that.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Of course, _ you _ don't because you only go to a church. All Christians and believers kneel.
> 
> Romans 14:11
> 
> _As surely as I live says the Lord, "Every knee will bow before me and every tongue confess and acknowledge God." _


Weather you kneel or not has nothing to do with being a Christian. Being a Christian has whole lot more to do with how you live your life, the things you say and do. Too many so called Christians like you, seem to think if they show up at church, that somehow makes them better and makes them Christians. It's just not true. My minister told a group of ladies that one day because they were complaining about someone coming to church in jeans. He said if you are looking at what people are wearing, you are here for the wrong reason. I'll bet that is exactly what you do in church, sit there and look down your nose at all they people who are not good enough for you. I can see it now.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL, I'm sure your time is much more important than to waste it on reading their comments.
> :lol: :thumbup:


 :thumbup: Love you Lukelucy! Thanks for starting this thread. Too bad there are so many name callers on it with no respect for human beings. They just pretend they care about people. If they cared so much they wouldn't treat others the way they do.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Weather you kneel or not has nothing to do with being a Christian. Being a Christian has whole lot more to do with how you live your life, the things you say and do. Too many so called Christians like you, seem to think if they show up at church, that somehow makes them better and makes them Christians. It's just not true. My minister told a group of ladies that one day because they were complaining about someone coming to church in jeans. He said if you are looking at what people are wearing, you are here for the wrong reason. I'll bet that is exactly what you do in church, sit there and look down your nose at all they people who are not good enough for you. I can see it now.


The scripture says EVERY knee will bow. Christians or not will one day. So prepare yourself.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Jokim said:


> He gets things done by executive fiat, or by having the Senate change the rules to suit the dems. when they are losing. Don't blame the Republicans for blocking him when his party controls 66.67% of the government.


Actually they don't, because the republicans control the house and the republicans control the senate except on appointments because of the rules change. Don't forget, the republicans control the senate with the filibuster. Wonder if they will filibuster the budget. They have another chance yet to destroy this country.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Actually they don't, because the republicans control the house and the republicans control the senate except on appointments because of the rules change. Don't forget, the republicans control the senate with the filibuster. Wonder if they will filibuster the budget. They have another chance yet to destroy this country.


Actually, things seem to be going smoothly in that area--the budget bill is expected to reach Obama's desk by tomorrow. Guess the GOP learned a little lesson there about holding the national and world economies hostage to try to get their way. :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Give me a break. The Bible _condones_ slavery:
> 
> However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)


Jesus came to perfect the Old Testament Law, His Church is the new Isreal: no slavery.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Great job, Solo!
> How full of hate they must be to write such trash, Solo. They are brainwashed robots, programmed to say and feel only one thing: hate. They do not want to hear or see reason and logic. They don't know what reason, logic and civility are. What they say gives us an insight into their minds and MO.


It is so true that they are one dimensional in their thinking, no not thinking, in what they say. They are just good little soldiers parroting what is on their propaganda pamphlets. They are the ones that have been told one thing for so long that they do indeed believe it to be true.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Tomato Tomatoe.


What exactly is it you're doing around here? Looks to me like you drop in and make a string of pointless, short remarks, signifying nothing but a desire to take up some space on these pages. Seems pretty pointless. Are you having fun?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Santa Claus is coming to town.


And for any bofus who believe certain things, we get to say "Happy Birthday, Jesus!!" What;s the difference?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Anyone care to read this:
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/17/it-s-conservatives-who-really-want-christ-out-of-christmas.html
> 
> I found it interesting.


Thank you Rocky, very interesting and so true.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The scripture says EVERY knee will bow. Christians or not will one day. So prepare yourself.


The scripture says a lot of things, like what Susan posted above about slavery. Do you believe that too?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Jesus came to perfect the Old Testament Law, His Church is the new Isreal: no slavery.


No slaves from among those in His church (Christians and Jews), perhaps--but what about the rest of the world? In fact, that was one of the rationalizations for the international slave trade--it was OK to snatch up and enslave people from African because, after all, they were neither Christian nor Jewish.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Bravo, KPG! :thumbup:
> Your description of Christians is very fitting, and you're right, the Church is not a building but a body of people in communion of praise and thanksgiving to God!


So true. This has been proven over and over when churches have been destroyed by fire or acts of nature and the people still get together to pray where the building use to stand. Or they use another parish's (is that the correct term?) church to hold their services. It's not the building, it's the people and their faith.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Please tell me this is a promise!!!!!
By the way Lukelucy......(BACK ATCHYA!)
You will not hear from me again as I will not read your "twisting of words" any more. What a huge waste of time you are.[Lukelucy/quote]



Lukelucy said:


> I have never written that I was a good or bad Christian. You are twisting words again. I am tired of you and your posts. You will not hear from me again as I will not read your "twisting of words" any more. What a huge waste of time you are.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

What was it someone once said? Bud out? Oh yeah.........I had to correct them......the term is "BUTT OUT!".... so I suggest you do that.....


Lukelucy said:


> No she does not. Another twist of the truth.


 :lol:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes you do......snicker-snicker!


Lukelucy said:


> I really do not care what you think.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Now, if you say "you must die," that is a clear threat and we haven't forgotten.


It's just that kind of crap, blowing an answer to one or your (collective) questions out of proportion, that screams to us why bother? No matter what we answer, you and your friends take it to extremes.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Fracking is working for the oil companies and those getting rich off of it, but destroying irreplaceable land. Fracking is BAD. I know.......I live in a state that is using Fracking to extract oil.


Knitry said:


> Just popping in real quick to drop an F-bomb, I'll call it, since Fracking has been a subject here. Some of you will no doubt find this a hunky dory idea. I'm hoping those of you who DON'T will be ready to take steps against it if the half-baked idea gets any farther than this conference.
> 
> I sure as heck hope it doesn't take an "expert" to think "there are too many practical and safety concerns for the scheme" to be a good idea, never mind working or not.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> And they tend to disappear when they hit a tough question that they can't answer. Or someone, "one ups" them. Then they come back with a whole new subject they have looked up on a website. But they seem to forget that.....believe it or not, WE CAN GO TO WEBSITES TOO!! :shock: So it doesn't take long to shoot their credibility out of the water....I'd have to vote for SAD.....they are pathetic more often than amusing....


Everything you just said can be used to describe you. I, too, vote for SAD and totally not amusing.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You must have been quoting the wrong passage....That's one is referring to Republicans......That's their MO.


joeysomma said:


> _"Liberals like to push conservatives around, call them vicious names, threaten them, etc. Then, they expect the Conservatives to follow Christian moral values. BS!!! If liberals want tolerance and respect, they have to return the same and follow the same moral values they put conservatives on."_ by rc0213


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Deny deny deny......But that won't make it any less true of you and yours.....


soloweygirl said:


> Everything you just said can be used to describe you. I, too, vote for SAD and totally not amusing.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Yes, I agree with Jokim......stop wasting OUR time here.....


Jokim said:


> LL, I'm sure your time is much more important than to waste it on reading their comments.
> :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Judeo-Christian values......Hmmmm. You sure do mention that particular hyphenated word a lot.


Jokim said:


> If it was an economic war, slavery would still be alive and well. Perhaps, with the advent of technology, it would have gone the way of the buggy whip. No, it was a war of moral values, and Judeo-Christian values won! :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Silly solo. Never heard that one before. It's the GOP that wants to cut Head Start etc. You've lost your way.


Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Got this from Elizabeth Warren today.

Much of America  hard-working, bill-paying America  has a damaged credit rating.

There are a lot of different reasons, but a lot of people just caught a bad break. They got sick. Their husband left or their wife died. They lost their job.

Problems only got worse after the financial crisis. Shrinking home prices made it impossible to sell or refinance a home. People lost their small businesses. Smaller savings left people without much cushion to ride out the tough times. People missed a payment or went into debt.

Most people recognize that bad credit means they will have trouble borrowing money or they will pay more to borrow. But many don't realize that a damaged credit rating can also block access to a job.

It was once thought that credit history would provide insight into someone's character, and many companies routinely require credit reports from job applicants. But research has shown that an individual's credit rating has little or no correlation with his ability to succeed at work. A bad credit rating is far more often the result of unexpected personal crisis or economic downturn than a reflection of someone's abilities.

Today, along with Senators Blumenthal, Brown, Leahy, Markey, Shaheen, and Whitehouse, I am introducing a bill to stop employers from requiring prospective employees to disclose their credit history or disqualifying applicants based on a poor credit rating.

Let's be honest: This is one more way the game is rigged against the middle class. A rich person who loses a job or gets divorced or faces a family illness is unlikely to suffer from a drop in his or her credit rating. But for millions of hard-working families, a hard personal blow translates into a hard financial blow that will show up for years in a credit report.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


Link to something that said Head Start wasn't working?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The scripture says EVERY knee will bow. Christians or not will one day. So prepare yourself.


Fear and intimidation is the credo of your G-d. How sad.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Sounds like they're turning on each other like a pack of wild dogs........Not completely unexpected. And Boehner has been sweating bullets since he had to cave after the failed attempt to shut down (takeover) the US government..... Looks like his health might be failing. He looks positively sick all the time.



NJG said:


> And now the republicans are attacking each other, which do them a lot of good, don't ya think. The Senate Conservatives Fund, Heritage Action and Club for Growth and Freedomworks have been attacking Boehner and McConnell, comparing them to the IRS. Those groups are now backing the tea party candidates running against them. Ryan is still kissing on both sides so have to see how long he is able to do that.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Jesus came to perfect the Old Testament Law, His Church is the new Isreal: no slavery.


Not according to the Jews, the Messiah has not yet come.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so true that they are one dimensional in their thinking, no not thinking, in what they say. They are just good little soldiers parroting what is on their propaganda pamphlets. They are the ones that have been told one thing for so long that they do indeed believe it to be true.


Sounds like you doesn't it?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Actually they don't, because the republicans control the house and the republicans control the senate except on appointments because of the rules change. Don't forget, the republicans control the senate with the filibuster. Wonder if they will filibuster the budget. They have another chance yet to destroy this country.


The Democrats are doing a fine job all on their own.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

NJG said:


> The scripture says a lot of things, like what Susan posted above about slavery. Do you believe that too?


Don't you have to believe every word in the Bible?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


Who said head start wasn't working? The republican agenda is the one that has been cutting education and wants to do away with the Dept of Education. Look at republican controlled states. They would love to privatize education. I can see it now. The rich would have great schools and those less fortunate would have schools, well, not so great. That way the divide in this country of the have and have nots would really increase.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Ooops.....she must have missed that part of the Bible. I guess it works for you if you only believe the parts you like, and ignore that parts that don't suit your purposes....


NJG said:


> The scripture says a lot of things, like what Susan posted above about slavery. Do you believe that too?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What exactly is it you're doing around here? Looks to me like you drop in and make a string of pointless, short remarks, signifying nothing but a desire to take up some space on these pages. Seems pretty pointless. Are you having fun?


I have said that about her a few times. It 's good to know that someone else has noticed. See, we can find some common ground after all.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Maybe that's because all your questions come in an accusatory manner.... Have you ever tried to be polite? I haven't seen it yet...


soloweygirl said:


> It's just that kind of crap, blowing an answer to one or your (collective) questions out of proportion, that screams to us why bother? No matter what we answer, you and your friends take it to extremes.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Don't you have to believe every word in the Bible?


Well, ya, I'm sure they do, but for something like slavery, it is not politically correct to admit you like that. I think you just pretend you don't know that, that is there, and pick out the parts that make you look more Christian.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Democrats are doing a fine job all on their own.


Oh no you don't. The republicans shut down the government and have used the filibuster a record setting number of times. They get a huge amount of credit for the harm they do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup: Love you Lukelucy! Thanks for starting this thread. Too bad there are so many name callers on it with no respect for human beings. They just pretend they care about people. If they cared so much they wouldn't treat others the way they do.


So true CB! Most disgusting, hate-filled people I've ever encountered.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Sounds like they're turning on each other like a pack of wild dogs........Not completely unexpected. And Boehner has been sweating bullets since he had to cave after the failed attempt to shut down (takeover) the US government..... Looks like his health might be failing. He looks positively sick all the time.


My daughter calls him Oompa Loompa. Says he usually looks kind of orange, but lately he hasn't looked quite so orange. Maybe he just hasn't had enough time for tanning or applying his self tanner.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Who said head start wasn't working? The republican agenda is the one that has been cutting education and wants to do away with the Dept of Education. Look at republican controlled states. They would love to privatize education. I can see it now. The rich would have great schools and those less fortunate would have schools, well, not so great. That way the divide in this country of the have and have nots would really increase.


No question that it's an effective program. From Reuters:

"One question the HHS study does answer definitively is whether Head Start does its job. The program gets at-risk children ready for kindergarten in every aspect the study measured. After one year in Head Start, children showed gains in vocabulary, letter-word identification, mathematics and social-emotional development compared with peers. In addition, parents involved with the program used more appropriate discipline and spent more time engaging in literacy activities with their children."

The only problem is that the cut-off age is five--we need more programs like these for older children.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So true CB! Most disgusting, hate-filled people I've ever encountered.


Yes you republicans are the most disgusting, hate-filled people I've ever encountered.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The scripture says EVERY knee will bow. Christians or not will one day. So prepare yourself.


NJG and Nussa have shown their ignorance about what it means to be a Christian, yet they claim to be one and none of the Libs in this thread know the history, context and meaning of the words they quote from the Bible. I'm not surprised; they are consumed with hate and ignorance and deaf ears.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Jesus came to perfect the Old Testament Law, His Church is the new Isreal: no slavery.


Susan doesn't have a clue about the background/history and meaning of those verses. Just like her to quote the Bible when she knows nothing of it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No question that it's an effective program. From Reuters:
> 
> "One question the HHS study does answer definitively is whether Head Start does its job. The program gets at-risk children ready for kindergarten in every aspect the study measured. After one year in Head Start, children showed gains in vocabulary, letter-word identification, mathematics and social-emotional development compared with peers. In addition, parents involved with the program used more appropriate discipline and spent more time engaging in literacy activities with their children."
> 
> The only problem is that the cut-off age is five--we need more programs like these for older children.


Yes, that requires more money into education. Now the republicans will give subsidies to rich farmers and big tax cuts to BP and Chevron and those guys, but education. Not so much. Kind of twisted thinking, isn't it?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Got this from Elizabeth Warren today.
> 
> Much of America  hard-working, bill-paying America  has a damaged credit rating.
> 
> ...


It wasn't only bad luck. What about abusing credit card use, buying homes they knew they couldn't afford the payments on, using what equity they had in their homes to buy things they really didn't need? And the list goes on. Money is probably the biggest reason marriages fail. One's credit rating can indicate the kind of person the job applicant is. Businesses want to know that before investing in training a new employee. Often what one does in their personal life is reflected in their professional life.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> LL, I'm sure your time is much more important than to waste it on reading their comments.
> :lol: :thumbup:


Jokim, such rudeness. Terrible.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> :thumbup: Love you Lukelucy! Thanks for starting this thread. Too bad there are so many name callers on it with no respect for human beings. They just pretend they care about people. If they cared so much they wouldn't treat others the way they do.


Love you, too CB. Thanks for your message. They really have no respect for human beings. Frightening.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


How true Solo! Yet, they don't even realize how they have hurt one other and themselves with their actions.

Wait for it, the Libs will want to throw more $ at it.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> NJG and Nussa have shown their ignorance about what it means to be a Christian, yet they claim to be one and none of the Libs in this thread know the history, context and meaning of the words they quote from the Bible. I'm not surprised; they are consumed with hate and ignorance and deaf ears.


You may have wore out your knees getting down on them but it has not made you a Christian. A woman scrubbing floors somewhere to make a living is more of a christian than you are because you on your knees are such a phony.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> My daughter calls him Oompa Loompa. Says he usually looks kind of orange, but lately he hasn't looked quite so orange. Maybe he just hasn't had enough time for tanning or applying his self tanner.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I have said that about her a few times. It 's good to know that someone else has noticed. See, we can find some common ground after all.


I've noticed that long ago but don't read her posts because I remember they were all meaningless and stupid. I also remember she posts when no one else is on-line so she must be afraid to enter into conversation or have personal interactions with others.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It wasn't only bad luck. What about abusing credit card use, buying homes they knew they couldn't afford the payments on, using what equity they had in their homes to buy things they really didn't need? And the list goes on. Money is probably the biggest reason marriages fail. One's credit rating can indicate the kind of person the job applicant is. Businesses want to know that before investing in training a new employee. Often what one does in their personal life is reflected in their professional life.


Yes! It wasn't bad luck, in the majority of the cases, it was buying too many material possessions and a house they couldn't afford so they went broke. Then when they couldn't afford their mortgage payments, because they HAD to HAVE every electronic gadget, new vehicle, $200 sneakers and jeans, etc., under the sun, they removed all their toys AND fixtures from their homes they walked away from them and filed for bankruptcy. Then they applied for taxpayer assistance and support, Medicaid and SNAP until they can do it all over again. Thank you Barney/Dodd.

Fifteen years ago the average credit card debt for an American was $17,000 (NOT for a car loan or mortgage) just STUFF!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susan doesn't have a clue about the background/history and meaning of those verses. Just like her to quote the Bible when she knows nothing of it.


Oh? Then put that magnificent brain of yours to work on this: if slavery is the antithesis of Christianity then Satan himself must have been leading Jokim's beloved Confederacy--slavery was its very backbone.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It wasn't only bad luck. What about abusing credit card use, buying homes they knew they couldn't afford the payments on, using what equity they had in their homes to buy things they really didn't need? And the list goes on. Money is probably the biggest reason marriages fail. One's credit rating can indicate the kind of person the job applicant is. Businesses want to know that before investing in training a new employee. Often what one does in their personal life is reflected in their professional life.


Of course it isn't only bad luck. Like anything else there are many different stories, because there are many different people, but leave it to a republican to make it sound like it will be only "those people" that will benefit from this bill, and because it is "those people" it has to be their own fault. 
Their credit rating has nothing to do with the kind of job they will do. If they have made some mistakes weather it be the economy or something they did themselves, and are working to make things better and get their bills paid then you are saying sorry you screwed up so no second chance. What the hell kind of human being are you?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! It wasn't bad luck, in the majority of the cases, it was buying too many material possessions and a house they couldn't afford so they went broke. Then when they couldn't afford their mortgage payments, because they HAD to HAVE every electronic gadget, new vehicle, $200 sneakers and jeans, etc., under the sun, they removed all their toys AND fixture from their homes they walked away from and file for bankruptcy. Then applied for taxpayer assistance and support until they can do it all over again. Thank you Barney/Dodd.
> 
> Five years ago the average credit card debt for an American was $17,000 (NOT for a car loan or mortgage) just STUFF!


Of course, no empathy from you republicans. Group all "those people" together and no second chances. Do it right the first time or you are done. You expect them to be a perfect as you are, because of course you have never made a mistake!!!!!!!! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted: 
:evil: :twisted: You are such nasty idiots.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Of course it isn't only bad luck. Like anything else there are many different stories, because there are many different people, but leave it to a republican to make it sound like it will be only "those people" that will benefit from this bill, and because it is "those people" it has to be their own fault.
> Their credit rating has nothing to do with the kind of job they will do. If they have made some mistakes weather it be the economy or something they did themselves, and are working to make things better and get their bills paid then you are saying sorry you screwed up so no second chance. What the hell kind of human being are you?


Hmm...I guess Tony Sutton (former chairman of the Minnesota GOP Party) must be one of "those" people as he filed for bankruptcy this year...Donald Trump as well--his companies filed for bankruptcy four times.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

NJG said:


> Got this from Elizabeth Warren today.
> 
> Much of America  hard-working, bill-paying America  has a damaged credit rating.
> 
> ...


I would also want to know if they owe back child support and if so, are they making payments to correct it before I would hire someone. If they are just letting that slide then I as an employer could train and then lose them to time in jail or revoked driving licenses for non-payment and no way to work. When you look at people standing in line for the lastest iphone, trample one and other for sneakers then complain they are broke and can't make their payments, sympathy on my part runs very thin. They can pass all the bills they want, it will just narrow the search for the best employee for the job.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Of course it isn't only bad luck. Like anything else there are many different stories, because there are many different people, but leave it to a republican to make it sound like it will be only "those people" that will benefit from this bill, and because it is "those people" it has to be their own fault.
> Their credit rating has nothing to do with the kind of job they will do. If they have made some mistakes weather it be the economy or something they did themselves, and are working to make things better and get their bills paid then you are saying sorry you screwed up so no second chance. What the hell kind of human being are you?


No what I am saying is that businesses have the right to do a credit check on applicants. They can then make the decision to hire the person based on that information and an interview. If it's a good fit they will be hired. I didn't expect another response from you other than twisting my words into your way of thinking. I don't have to wonder what the hell kind of human being you are.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> Of course, no empathy from you republicans. Group all "those people" together and no second chances. Do it right the first time or you are done. You expect them to be a perfect as you are, because of course you have never made a mistake!!!!!!!! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
> :evil: :twisted: You are such nasty idiots.


It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


Don't you do the same in regard to Democrats, especially Obama?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That can't possibly be true, with your nasty disposition, you must know thousands of people you feel are the most disgusting, hate-filled people you've ever encountered... Don't sell yourself short..


knitpresentgifts said:


> So true CB! Most disgusting, hate-filled people I've ever encountered.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

FUNNY........ :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 


NJG said:


> My daughter calls him Oompa Loompa. Says he usually looks kind of orange, but lately he hasn't looked quite so orange. Maybe he just hasn't had enough time for tanning or applying his self tanner.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I consider myself to be a Christian, but unlike you , I will leave that judgement for the good Lord to decide as to just how good a Christian I have been. Unlike you and your friends who praise each others holiness. I don't need your type of Christian history to help me decide what I believe. I use my own good judgement. I believe that God gave us a brains to use, and a conscience to decide how to treat others. He wants us to use them, not be robots who will follow anyone with a Bible in his hand, or someone spouting the scriptures. When my time comes, I will welcome my meeting with the Lord. 
P.S. Any snide remarks you make after reading this post would put you in the, not being a very good Christian category. :wink: .


knitpresentgifts said:


> NJG and Nussa have shown their ignorance about what it means to be a Christian, yet they claim to be one and none of the Libs in this thread know the history, context and meaning of the words they quote from the Bible. I'm not surprised; they are consumed with hate and ignorance and deaf ears.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So true. This has been proven over and over when churches have been destroyed by fire or acts of nature and the people still get together to pray where the building use to stand. Or they use another parish's (is that the correct term?) church to hold their services. It's not the building, it's the people and their faith.


It is what you say Solo, and more. When we pray we join with other throughout the world in prayer and thanksgiving. Our hearts are united with others. We are never alone when we pray to God.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh? Then put that magnificent brain of yours to work on this: if slavery is the antithesis of Christianity then Satan himself must have been leading Jokim's beloved Confederacy--slavery was its very backbone.


Don't twist my words! Where did I indicate that I favored the Confederacy? It was the people of the cloth in the North, the Quakers and the Abolitionists preachers, who were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susan doesn't have a clue about the background/history and meaning of those verses. Just like her to quote the Bible when she knows nothing of it.


Perhaps she learned something.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> Perhaps she learned something.


Nope. She doesn't understand the verse from Leviticus she quoted. She makes crap up as she goes along and then wants us to explain why her statements are false (as she just did to you).

Ignore - ignore - ignore.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


But why do you assume that they have all done something wrong? How do you know they bought items they couldn't afford? We are talking about middle America here, everyday working class people and also executives, managers and bankers. Did they do something wrong too. How hard is it for a 59 year old person, man or woman to find a job? Do you have any idea how many people lost their jobs? Do you realize that there are 3 people for every job. Do you see the long lines on tv when they talk about a new company opening or someone is hiring and they line up for blocks and blocks. You have no empathy for people and yet want us to believe you are a Christian. You never give anyone the benefit of the doubt. They are always wrong and you know it all. Remember, There but for the grace of God, go I. Your day is coming.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Fear and intimidation is the credo of your G-d. How sad.


Just the fact! You can prepare too.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I guess Tony Sutton (former chairman of the Minnesota GOP Party) must be one of "those" people as he filed for bankruptcy this year...Donald Trump as well--his companies filed for bankruptcy four times.


Well if they are republicans, then I am sure Solo and KPG would want to help them out again, because I am sure they didn't buy anything they shouldn't have. If The Donald bought one building too many, I'm sure he didn't mean to. Bankruptcy, well that will wipe out their debts and they will be as good as new and all set to buy those items again. Solo and KPG are such hypocrites.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


Solo, their nastiness is so extreme! Wow! Scary!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Don't twist my words! Where did I indicate that I favored the Confederacy? It was the people of the cloth in the North, the Quakers and the Abolitionists preachers, who were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement.


Jokim,
They can't help but twist things. I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world. I stay away from such people like the plague.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope. She doesn't understand the verse from Leviticus she quoted. She makes crap up as she goes along and then wants us to explain why her statements are false (as she just did to you).
> 
> Ignore - ignore - ignore.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Don't twist my words! Where did I indicate that I favored the Confederacy? It was the people of the cloth in the North, the Quakers and the Abolitionists preachers, who were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement.


Sorry, Jokim--some of your political cohorts have a sentimental attachment to the Confederacy, and I thought you were among them.

The point remains, though, that it's a mistake to tie anti-slavery sentiments exclusively to the presence and teachings of Jesus. Not only is it erroneous, it leads one to conclude that all slaveholders (including our Founding Fathers) must have been very bad Christians.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> If it was an economic war, slavery would still be alive and well. Perhaps, with the advent of technology, it would have gone the way of the buggy whip. No, it was a war of moral values, and Judeo-Christian values won! :thumbup:


How do you square that claim with the FACT that it was the Judeo-Christian BIBLE -- with its defense of slavery -- that slavery holders used to justify their own slavery?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> How do you square that claim with the FACT that it was the Judeo-Christian BIBLE -- with its defense of slavery -- that slavery holders used to justify their own slavery?


Exactly right, Knitry. Southern slave owners were notorious for reading carefully chosen portions aloud to their human chattel--Cain and Abel, Paul sending a runaway slave back to his master, Ephesians 6--to convince them (and probably themselves as well) that God approved of slavery. People have never been shy about finding just those verses that support their position and ignoring all the rest.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually, things seem to be going smoothly in that area--the budget bill is expected to reach Obama's desk by tomorrow. Guess the GOP learned a little lesson there about holding the national and world economies hostage to try to get their way. :thumbup:


Well, I was optimistic too. In fact, I rather appeciated some of what Paul Ryan was saying in his praise and thanks for Sen. Murray, and his praise of their process.

His good behavior lasted all of one day. The very next day after their press conference together announcing their budget deal, he's sitting in the chair with one of his rightwing pundits promising that he and other members of the Republican caucus would meet to determine what they would extort from the Democrats and the administration when the debt limit fight rolls around again:



> We, as a caucus, along with our Senate counterparts, are going to meet and discuss what it is we want to get out of the debt limit, Mr. Ryan said on Fox News Sunday. We dont want nothing out of the debt limit. Were going to decide what it is we can accomplish out of this debt limit fight.
> http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/12/15/ryan-says-gop-to-make-debt-ceiling-demands-in-early-14/


Snake in the grass Ryan hasn't learned a thing, apparently.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Fracking is working for the oil companies and those getting rich off of it, but destroying irreplaceable land. Fracking is BAD. I know.......I live in a state that is using Fracking to extract oil.


Irreplaceable land and even MORE irreplaceable water. I'm frankly hysterical about the issue.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Snake in the grass Ryan hasn't learned a thing, apparently.


I guess not--darn it!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Irreplaceable land and even MORE irreplaceable water.
> 
> ...and leaving gigantic fracking holes to be stuffed with nuclear waste. Really, the bozos pushing for this must have lost their minds.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> Who said head start wasn't working? The republican agenda is the one that has been cutting education and wants to do away with the Dept of Education. Look at republican controlled states. They would love to privatize education. I can see it now. The rich would have great schools and those less fortunate would have schools, well, not so great. That way the divide in this country of the have and have nots would really increase.


Ahhh, apparently they've started in on the Head Start program now. When I googled "success of head start" I got quite a few naysaying articles on the right. Surprise, surprise.

For anyone interested, this article documents and debunks the rightwing lies:



> Media outlets cherry-picked facts from a recent Health and Human Services report on the Head Start education program to promote the myth that the program is a failure. However, neither the HHS report nor other studies confirm those claims, and reports actually show the program has had a positive impact both early on and later in students' lives.
> 
> http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/01/16/media-cherry-pick-facts-to-falsely-label-head-s/192284


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

How could anyone NOT believe that Head Start is successful? It's common knowledge that kids thrive academically when the adults around them show some interest in their education--supervising homework, trips to the library, reading aloud, participation in school events.

My feeling is that Head Start's success is the conservatives' worst nightmare. It's proof positive that children really can do well if they get the programs they require--and that means more money out of the GOPers' pockets. No Republican worth his or her salt is going to go along with that.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


In an economy like ours, under your rules, NO ONE COULD AFFORD ANYTHING because you never know when the floor will drop out from under you in such a way that what you had been able to afford is no loner "affordable."

People can be sailing along doing just fine, having no problems paying their bills and suddenly have a very serious, very expensive medical situation. Even for those who had medical insurance, are you aware that the vast majority of all bankruptcy cases are because of medical bills of the INSURED? (Of course, ACA is in the process of changing all that, but there are plenty of people out there who were hit with this problem.)

You also don't have a lot of control on your job leaving the U.S. Again, plenty of people hurt with that, unexpectedly. And companies these days delight in keeping younger, less-well-paid employees and finding ways to let the older more expensive workers go. It's tough to find ANY jobs when you're in your 50s -- and there are a lot of people right here at KP who can tell you about that issue. These problems have been especially difficult in the whole tech sector, which once offered an abundance of wonderful, high-paying middle class jobs. They started off-shoring -- and getting tax breaks for doing so!! -- and lying about their need to import H1B Visa employees who were young and willing (and able) to work for far less, which ended up decimating the whole tech sector employment platform.

There's no way to predict the future or plan well enough to know that some things you're doing right now -- buying a perfectly affordable house, taking a perfectly affordable vacation, putting a few perfectly affordable clothes and stuff on your credit cards -- won't be "affordable" when suddenly, without notice, your plum job curls up and dies.

And when the economy as a whole tanks. it's going to catch a lot of people who were living quite responsibly in a decent economy.

The ONLY way to "prepare" for such things is to live a life so Spartan and ascetic that it's not a life at all.

It's unconscionable to me that you do not have the capacity -- or imagination -- to comprehend that things happen to people that can't be predicted or prevented or planned for or even fully or adequately saved/insured for.

My hope for you -- and some would quite reasonably consider it mean of me -- is that someday you'll have the opportunity to find out first hand.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I'm sorry that you carry so much anger and resentment


Anger created by injustice is a wonderful motivator. Those of us who have learned that will change the world.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly right, Knitry. Southern slave owners were notorious for reading carefully chosen portions aloud to their human chattel--Cain and Abel, Paul sending a runaway slave back to his master, Ephesians 6--to convince them (and probably themselves as well) that God approved of slavery. People have never been shy about finding just those verses that support their position and ignoring all the rest.


Egggsackly.

As a matter of fact, it's still being done -- maybe not for "slavery" but to continue to justify the racism that undergirded slavery.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> They can't help but twist things. I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world. I stay away from such people like the plague.


Thank you for the reminder, LL. :thumbup: I don't think they will ever be satisfied with an answer because there is no correct answer that they want to hear.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> In an economy like ours, under your rules, NO ONE COULD AFFORD ANYTHING because you never know when the floor will drop out from under you in such a way that what you had been able to afford is no loner "affordable."
> 
> People can be sailing along doing just fine, having no problems paying their bills and suddenly have a very serious, very expensive medical situation. Even for those who had medical insurance, are you aware that the vast majority of all bankruptcy cases are because of medical bills of the INSURED? (Of course, ACA is in the process of changing all that, but there are plenty of people out there who were hit with this problem.)
> 
> ...


And even that would backfire if enough people did it. Our 21st century economy depends heavily on the sale of consumer goods and the good old charge card--which is why the government handed out free money and commanded the recipients to spend it a few years back. If every American cut up his or her credit cards the economy would crash--no question.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry, Jokim--some of your political cohorts have a sentimental attachment to the Confederacy, and I thought you were among them.
> 
> The point remains, though, that it's a mistake to tie anti-slavery sentiments exclusively to the presence and teachings of Jesus. Not only is it erroneous, it leads one to conclude that all slaveholders (including our Founding Fathers) must have been very bad Christians.


It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for the reminder, LL. :thumbup: I don't think they will ever be satisfied with an answer because there is no correct answer that they want to hear.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


How does that play with present day slavery that we all know is there and involves children being raped repeatedly as well as other lesser violations of human rights? 
Pointing at one small bit of ownership being resolved and closing our eyes to millions of others being held and tortured over the years doesn't say much for putting it all on God. 
There but by the grace of God... is a mighty handy little phrase.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


 :thumbup: Free indeed!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How could anyone NOT believe that Head Start is successful? It's common knowledge that kids thrive academically when the adults around them show some interest in their education--supervising homework, trips to the library, reading aloud, participation in school events.
> 
> My feeling is that Head Start's success is the conservatives' worst nightmare. It's proof positive that children really can do well if they get the programs they require--and that means more money out of the GOPers' pockets. No Republican worth his or her salt is going to go along with that.


It is their worst nightmare because they don't care if "those kids" do well or not, just as long as they don't require any extra money to do it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


Obviously one can't judge our forebears by modern standards--I don't consider Washington and Jefferson fiends because they held slaves. In the 18th century it was perfectly acceptable (unfortunately).

But I still can't agree that Jesus and His teachings were at the heart of the anti-slavery movement. Jesus was probably lived between 5 BC and 28 AD, and the New Testament was more or less complete just a century later--but the anti-slavery movement took another 1600 years to develop. People simply didn't know it was wrong, and religion obviously failed to enlighten them.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously one can't judge our forebears by modern standards--I don't consider Washington and Jefferson fiends because they held slaves. In the 18th century it was perfectly acceptable (unfortunately).
> 
> But I still can't agree that Jesus and His teachings were at the heart of the anti-slavery movement. Jesus was probably lived between 5 BC and 28 AD, and the New Testament was more or less complete just a century later--but the anti-slavery movement took another 1600 years to develop. People simply didn't know it was wrong, and religion obviously failed to enlighten them.


Why are you always bringing up slavery? The topic is present. ocare.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously one can't judge our forebears by modern standards--I don't consider Washington and Jefferson fiends because they held slaves. In the 18th century it was perfectly acceptable (unfortunately).
> 
> But I still can't agree that Jesus and His teachings were at the heart of the anti-slavery movement. Jesus was probably lived between 5 BC and 28 AD, and the New Testament was more or less complete just a century later--but the anti-slavery movement took another 1600 years to develop. People simply didn't know it was wrong, and religion obviously failed to enlighten them.


Sorry, Susan, that explanation just doesn't cut it. 
If people didn't realize that slavery was wrong why were whites indentured for a limited amount of time and Africans in slavery for life? 
The whole 3/5th solution was a cop out in the time of the confederation. Those men knew it was wrong, they just didn't care. 
http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/learning_history/revolution/revolution_slavery.cfm


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How could anyone NOT believe that Head Start is successful? It's common knowledge that kids thrive academically when the adults around them show some interest in their education--supervising homework, trips to the library, reading aloud, participation in school events.
> 
> My feeling is that Head Start's success is the conservatives' worst nightmare. It's proof positive that children really can do well if they get the programs they require--and that means more money out of the GOPers' pockets. No Republican worth his or her salt is going to go along with that.


Well, there's actually more to it than just that, but I think that's part of it too.

You may have noticed that the Republicans have gone after just about every possible thing they can do to enhance their electoral success -- they've gerrymandered districts to the nth degree to ensure success at the ballots. They're trying hard to seriously undermine the vote of elements of the electorate that are not known to be big Republican voters -- the poor, the elderly, and especially minorities. Now, in Texas, they're even going after the women's vote since they have a brazen hussy of a firebrand Democratic state senator (Wendy Davis) running for governor.

Their gerrymandering is so bad (or they would say good or at least thorough, I suppose) that it literally takes more Democratic votes to win seats than it takes republican votes. THAT is anti-democracy, and anti-American to boot.

(*Republicans Win Fewer Votes, but More Seats than Democrats* http://library.cqpress.com/elections/document.php?id=rcookltr-1527-84193-2523552 )

And they also do everything they can to suppress Democratic votes on election day, such as reducing the number of voting machines in heavily Dem districts, moving precincts with no notice and hardly any indication of the new location, putting out flyers saying election day is a different day than it is, robocalling doing the same thing plus other tricks, on and on.

Everything they can think of, everything they know, they do to win (or try to) when their policies and agenda won't.

But there's one more really important thing they are doing as well, and I've not seen this talked about nearly as much as the more obvious. But mark my words, this is part of their longterm electoral strategy too.

They're going after education. Why? For a perfectly good reason: the smarter -- or rather more educated -- you are, the more likely you are to vote Democratic.



> *Proof: Republicans Really Are Dumber Than Democrats* The more college graduates, the more Democratic (and especially more liberal) the state. The fewer college graduates, the more Republican and (and especially more conservative) the state.
> 
> Anyway, take that for what it is worth. The charts essentially tell you what you already knew: liberal states like New York and Massachusetts invest more in educating their kids. Conservative states like Kansas and Texas spend less on it, and consequently have fewer people with bachelor's degrees.
> 
> Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/proof-republicans-really-are-dumber-than-democrats-2012-5#ixzz2nmWW90cV


They also like decimating our education system so that they can reward their corporate friends who build charter schools. And a wonderful side benefit is getting rid of teachers unions -- unions typically work for Dems and their members usually vote Dem.

So you see, they've got every avenue covered.

And they still keep losing. And THAT's because Abraham Lincoln was right: you CAN'T fool all of the people all of the time.

Shhh, don't tell them that the secret of winning elections -- actually, _honestly_ winning, not cheating to win -- is simple though not necessarily easy: craft policies and an agenda that people actually want.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> They also like decimating our education system so that they can reward their corporate friends who build charter schools. And a wonderful side benefit is getting rid of teachers unions -- unions typically work for Dems and their members usually vote Dem.
> 
> So you see, they've got every avenue covered.
> 
> ...


There is that direction as well as the side benefits reaped by those parents who have children enrolled in HeadStart, the parents learn LOTS and make connections that increase the status of the whole family and affect neighborhoods as well.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I just read an article saying Lara Logan was due to come back to CBS 60 Minutes, probably the first of the year. A little leave of absence and slap on the wrist, but not much compared to what happened to Dan Rather. The story ended with a statement that makes a lot of sense to me. 

It just goes to show you, it's not what you do, but who you do it to (or about).


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry, Susan, that explanation just doesn't cut it.
> *If people didn't realize that slavery was wrong why were whites indentured for a limited amount of time and Africans in slavery for life?*
> The whole 3/5th solution was a cop out in the time of the confederation. Those men knew it was wrong, they just didn't care.
> http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/learning_history/revolution/revolution_slavery.cfm


I don't want to weigh in on your comment one way or the other, except to point out that indentured servitude was intrinsically different from slavery (though no doubt shared many features) in that for the most part, indentured servants entered into the agreement (a contract) willingly and often in order to get passage to the New World whereas slaves were abducted against their will and never had the benefit of a contract.



> Indentured servitude was a form of debt bondage, established in the early years of the American colonies and elsewhere. It was most used as a way for poor teenagers in Britain and the German states to get free passage to the American colonies. They would work for a fixed number of years, then be free to work on their own. The employer purchased the indenture from the sea captain who brought the youths over; he did so because he needed labor. Most worked as farmers or helpers for farm wives, while some were apprenticed to craftsmen. Both sides were legally obligated to meet the terms, which were enforced by local American courts. Runaways were sought out and returned. About half of the white immigrants to the American colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries were indentured. Living conditions were similar to children of the employer, but the death rate was higher because of exposure to new diseases.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indentured_servant


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Egggsackly.
> 
> As a matter of fact, it's still being done -- maybe not for "slavery" but to continue to justify the racism that undergirded slavery.


Two sides of the same coin, IMHO. Slavery has existed from the dawn of time, but the American version was absolutely bizarre--and devastating. In Europe slaves were generally the victims of unfortunate circumstances--children sold by indigent parents, those captured in war, etc. Only in America (as far as I know) did one's status depend on a single physical characteristic--skin color. Those with the unlucky DNA were enslaved from the moment of conception, and it was for a life.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitry says:
I don't want to weigh in on your comment one way or the other, except to point out that indentured servitude was intrinsically different from slavery (though no doubt shared many features) in that for the most part, indentured servants entered into the agreement (a contract) willingly and often in order to get passage to the New World whereas slaves were abducted against their will and never had the benefit of a contract.

And we don't want to get that far off track, I agree. 
However, your point is pretty much THE point. 
Kidnapping and servitude was not unknown, I think I have read that a third of sailors were kidnap victims. 
Same thing, really... the whites are temporarily in custody, the blacks are in for life, pretty similar to today's corrections systems. 
Caucasions could have just as easily been sold by those they owed money to, nobody woud have asked a single question in many cases. It didn't happen.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry, Susan, that explanation just doesn't cut it.
> If people didn't realize that slavery was wrong why were whites indentured for a limited amount of time and Africans in slavery for life?


Hmm...possibly because the owners of "white" slaves (both here and in Europe) knew that it might prove impossible to hold their human chattel for life. Caucasian slaves--poor children, war captives--were indistinguishable from those around them. If they could manage to flee to another village or town they'd blend right in, and it would be tough for their owners to track them down and drag them back. In comparison, African-American slaves were in desperate straits as their entire race was enslaved--there was simply no way to outrun their DNA.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Sorry, Susan, that explanation just doesn't cut it.
> If people didn't realize that slavery was wrong why were whites indentured for a limited amount of time and Africans in slavery for life?
> The whole 3/5th solution was a cop out in the time of the confederation. Those men knew it was wrong, they just didn't care.


I think we're talking about two different time periods and two different parts of the world. By the 19th century there's no doubt that many if not most American slave owners knew it was wrong to hold a whole race of people in captivity. As I mentioned in an earlier post, they depended on those portions of the Bible that seem to support slavery to convince not only the slaves but themselves that God approved.

But before that I'm less certain. Slavery (slavery of European whites) simply WAS, just as we have wage slaves today. It certainly existed in Jesus' time, and there's nothing in the Bible to show that people found it particularly abhorrent. Poor people were desperate--selling one's children into slavery might at least guarantee their survival if the parents were unable to provide for them. And European slaves always had the option of running away--since they looked like their fellows it wasn't particularly difficult for them to leave the area and start a new, free life somewhere else.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


Way back on page 72 at 13:36:00 I asked for a link to back up your claim that Head Start wasn't working. Now I am willing to think that maybe you missed that request, so I am again asking for a link to support your statement please.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry:
I don't want to weigh in on your comment one way or the other, except to point out that indentured servitude was intrinsically different from slavery (though no doubt shared many features) in that for the most part, indentured servants entered into the agreement (a contract) willingly and often in order to get passage to the New World whereas slaves were abducted against their will and never had the benefit of a contract."

You are 100% correct, Knitry--and in fact, this was the reasoning of the earliest abolitionists. Rather than using the Bible as proof that slavery was wrong, they argued that it was fine for someone to voluntarily give up rights and personal freedom (as indentured servants and apprentices did) in exchange for something else, but that slaves and their descendants had never had any say in the matter and therefore could not be held against their will.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Just the fact! You can prepare too.


You can't prepare to be a good Christian, unless you practice what you preach.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A good portion of the Bible is history. The history of His people, how when His people worshiped God, their life was good. When they disobeyed, they were taken into captivity and made slaves, simply.
> 
> After Moses led the people in the wilderness the forty years, Joshua led them into the promised land. God's orders were to destroy all the people and animals and treasures, when the people disobeyed and made slaves of the people, they made trouble for themselves, since what they did displeased God.
> 
> So just because it says something in the Bible, it does not mean it is meant for you to do. Parts of two verses: "Judas went out and hung himself," and "go ye therefore and do likewise."


Stories told to "children", to make them follow the rules. Using fear and intimidation to make them meek and good followers.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Anger created by injustice is a wonderful motivator. Those of us who have learned that will change the world.


Well said.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you for the reminder, LL. :thumbup: I don't think they will ever be satisfied with an answer because there is no correct answer that they want to hear.


Do you think any of our answers are correct? Not just NO but HELL NO! when you talk about others, it reveals a lot about you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


I'm certain Jews also were part of the ant-slavery movement and they did not need Jesus to tell them what was right and wrong. You do know there are other religions in this world?


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> How does that play with present day slavery that we all know is there and involves children being raped repeatedly as well as other lesser violations of human rights?
> Pointing at one small bit of ownership being resolved and closing our eyes to millions of others being held and tortured over the years doesn't say much for putting it all on God.
> There but by the grace of God... is a mighty handy little phrase.


When did you switch centuries? Slavery has so many facets.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

No you don't!!!.....You thrive on it and you know it. And you are the only one doing the TWIST on this site. You're the one who's always bringing it up. So at least we now know what makes you tick, and why you twist. Quote - ( I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world.)-Unquote..... You just described yourself to a T.



Lukelucy said:


> Jokim,
> They can't help but twist things. I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world. I stay away from such people like the plague.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Nussa said:


> No you don't!!!.....You thrive on it and you know it. And you are the only one doing the TWIST on this site. You're the one who's always bringing it up. So at least we now know what makes you tick, and why you twist. Quote - ( I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world.)-Unquote..... You just described yourself to a T.


Way to ho LL. That sounds like a description of all you right wing rhetoric. All orthodoxy reacts the same way. Deny, deny, deny and twist things to their own perspective.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


Then to ME the bible is NOT TRUE. It is a story, not a history.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously one can't judge our forebears by modern standards--I don't consider Washington and Jefferson fiends because they held slaves. In the 18th century it was perfectly acceptable (unfortunately).
> 
> But I still can't agree that Jesus and His teachings were at the heart of the anti-slavery movement. Jesus was probably lived between 5 BC and 28 AD, and the New Testament was more or less complete just a century later--but the anti-slavery movement took another 1600 years to develop. People simply didn't know it was wrong, and religion obviously failed to enlighten them.


There were always people who fought slavery throughout history. They didn't always win. But then, there are so many facets of slavery/bondage.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

I check this thread a couple times a day and catch up on everything, but it just dawned on me........when do you guys have time to knit????? LOL


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Anger created by injustice is a wonderful motivator. Those of us who have learned that will change the world.


Sometimes what results is hate not anger. Don't confuse the two.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I'm certain Jews also were part of the ant-slavery movement and they did not need Jesus to tell them what was right and wrong. You do know there are other religions in this world?


Read my posts, please. I refer to the values as Judeo-Christian values. There probably were all religions and nationalities fighting slavery, and also fighting for it. The treasury sec'y of the CSA was Judah Benjamin, a man of Jewish ethnicity.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

This is what you wrote, sorry I didn't see anything about the Jews.

It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.



Jokim said:


> Read my posts, please. I refer to the values as Judeo-Christian values. There probably were all religions and nationalities fighting slavery, and also fighting for it. The treasury sec'y of the CSA was Judah Benjamin, a man of Jewish ethnicity.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well now, isn't that an interesting development? Now I understand why Jokim continually brings up the Judeo-Christian Bible.....Hummmm Very very interesting......


Knitry said:


> How do you square that claim with the FACT that it was the Judeo-Christian BIBLE -- with its defense of slavery -- that slavery holders used to justify their own slavery?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> When did you switch centuries? Slavery has so many facets.


Slavery does NOT have so many facets, it has people who are powerful OWNING and denying human rights to people who have none (unless you count the dehumanizing of both in small acts of rebellion).
The sort of debasement is irrelevent. Being a good slave owner is not better than being a nasty owner.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

One seems to lead to the other......


Jokim said:


> Sometimes what results is hate not anger. Don't confuse the two.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Not true....If you are as intelligent and as smart as you want us to believe, You will know that the Bible was not written by Jesus....it was written by many diff men. Men who chose what should and should not be in the Bible. Many things were left out. So there is no logical way that everything in there is 100% correct. It is just that.....a history book. I will say once again. I believe in God. But cannot blindly believe everything I read or am told. I choose to decide for myself. So, I choose to believe the parts of the Bible I feel are logical, but not others. My prerogative I believe. 


joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> This is what you wrote, sorry I didn't see anything about the Jews.
> 
> It is best not to judge the past by the standards of the present. Suffice it to say that the anti-slavery forces appealed to a higher value, namely God (Jesus) and His freeing us from the slavery of sin, by His death on the cross, and projecting it to the struggle to free a people also in slavery. That, by itself, was the greatest motivation.


Jesus was a ............. Jew.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Seems to be the very argument regarding Christian values in talk and in practice that we keep discussing. Interested to hear viewpoints of all. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays



rocky1991 said:


> Anyone care to read this:
> 
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/12/17/it-s-conservatives-who-really-want-christ-out-of-christmas.html
> 
> I found it interesting.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And how many angels dance on the head of a pin?



NJG said:


> Weather you kneel or not has nothing to do with being a Christian. Being a Christian has whole lot more to do with how you live your life, the things you say and do. Too many so called Christians like you, seem to think if they show up at church, that somehow makes them better and makes them Christians. It's just not true. My minister told a group of ladies that one day because they were complaining about someone coming to church in jeans. He said if you are looking at what people are wearing, you are here for the wrong reason. I'll bet that is exactly what you do in church, sit there and look down your nose at all they people who are not good enough for you. I can see it now.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No comment to your criticism.



MaidInBedlam said:


> What exactly is it you're doing around here? Looks to me like you drop in and make a string of pointless, short remarks, signifying nothing but a desire to take up some space on these pages. Seems pretty pointless. Are you having fun?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


In all my years of hearing the gospel and teachings about or from the Bible, I have never heard a child or adult be intimidated or made to cower or feel threatened by the Bible's teachings.

Where do these Libs on this thread learn these ridiculous theories? No wonder none of them are Christians, I wouldn't be a follower either if God and Jesus wanted me to follow what the loons say is Biblical and the Truth and the Way. (Their ideas are NOT in the Bible nor are they taught in the Christian environments where I've been lead.)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


 :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Slavery does NOT have so many facets, it has people who are powerful OWNING and denying human rights to people who have none (unless you count the dehumanizing of both in small acts of rebellion).
> The sort of debasement is irrelevent. Being a good slave owner is not better than being a nasty owner.


In the 20th and 21st centuries slavery exists under a different form: slaves of the state.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Then to ME the bible is NOT TRUE. It is a story, not a history.


Then you are wrong so stop talking about what you don't know or understand. BTW: learn to spell _God_.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I beg to differ. You attempt to explain your way around blatant threats. It never works. Someone will remind you.



soloweygirl said:


> It's just that kind of crap, blowing an answer to one or your (collective) questions out of proportion, that screams to us why bother? No matter what we answer, you and your friends take it to extremes.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Slavery does NOT have so many facets, it has people who are powerful OWNING and denying human rights to people who have none (unless you count the dehumanizing of both in small acts of rebellion).
> The sort of debasement is irrelevent. Being a good slave owner is not better than being a nasty owner.


Many of the slaves in the early Biblical times were in bondage and held until their debts were repaid. They were also before the time Jesus walked the earth. It wasn't about ownership, it was about repayment of a debt yet it was still wrong. Much like those who are enslaved to the Democratic entitlements programs of today. The Govt doesn't own people, but the people are in debt to the govt yet they do not owe the govt anything do they?

There are so many examples of things in the Bible that are not pleasing to God but happened just the same because Man is a sinner and fell from Grace. You'll not find perfection in the Bible or in any man.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> In all my years of hearing the gospel and teachings about or from the Bible, I have never heard a child or adult be intimidated or made to cower or feel threatened by the Bible's teachings.
> 
> Where do these Libs on this thread learn these ridiculous theories? No wonder none of them are Christians, I wouldn't be a follower either if God and Jesus wanted me to follow what the loons say is Biblical and the Truth and the Way. (Their ideas are NOT in the Bible nor are they taught in the Christian environments where I've been lead.)


St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians would be apropos reading, don't you think, KPG?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Head Start has provided many children with valuable preschool lessons giving them a HEAD START on learning that helps them all their lives. Haven't you heard of it?



soloweygirl said:


> Because Head start wasn't working. But don't let those details get in the way. It was after the liberal agenda took over education in this country that it went downhill fast. When compared to other countries, all we can do is barely hold our own. Thanks liberals, you are doing a bang up job. That's the best way to keep the masses down and out.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The so-called slaves in the early Biblical times were in bondage and held to pay their debts. It wasn't about ownership, it was about repayment of a debt. Much like those who are enslaved to the Democratic entitlements programs of today. The Govt doesn't actually own people, but the people are in debt to the govt.


Bingo! :thumbup: 
Gov't dictates the lifestyle of its subjects.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Charter schools and For-Profit Schools in general do a poor job of educating any students. They do generally make money for their corporations....for a time at least. I contend that education and health care are two industries that do not fit the profit model.



NJG said:


> Who said head start wasn't working? The republican agenda is the one that has been cutting education and wants to do away with the Dept of Education. Look at republican controlled states. They would love to privatize education. I can see it now. The rich would have great schools and those less fortunate would have schools, well, not so great. That way the divide in this country of the have and have nots would really increase.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Jokim said:


> St. Paul's letter to the Corinthians would be apropos reading, don't you think, KPG?


I'd put up a link to the _Bible_ but not one of these Libs/Progs would read it or understand it in context and would say it is biased, so why bother?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Then you are wrong so stop talking about what you don't know or understand. BTW: learn to spell _God_.


I have no idea what Rocky's religious affiliation is, but Jews do NOT spell out God, but use G_d or G-d.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Head Start has provided many children with valuable preschool lessons giving them a HEAD START on learning that helps them all their lives. Haven't you heard of it?


Guess you haven't heard: Head Start has been a failure for awhile now ACCORDING TO YOUR PRESIDENT's ADMINISTRATION TOO: go figure you don't know that: excerpt from the Cato Institute;

_Head Start: A Tragic Waste of Money_

By Andrew J. Coulson

This article appeared in the New York Post on January 28, 2010.
Head Start, the most sacrosanct federal education program, doesnt work.

*Thats the finding of a sophisticated study just released by President Obamas Department of Health and Human Services.*

Created in 1965, the comprehensive preschool program for 3- and 4-year olds and their parents is meant to narrow the education gap between low-income students and their middle- and upper-income peers. Forty-five years and $166 billion later, * it has been proven a failure.*


Instead of throwing more dollars at this proven failure, President Obama might consider throwing his weight behind proven successes.

The bad news came in the study released this month: It found that, by the end of the first grade, children who attended Head Start are essentially indistinguishable from a control group of students who didnt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you claiming (again) that you know all about everything and practice none of it? Oh, I guess the 'practice' part of it is too truthful for you. You're full of hot air.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Susan doesn't have a clue about the background/history and meaning of those verses. Just like her to quote the Bible when she knows nothing of it.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> I have no idea what Rocky's religious affiliation is, but Jews do NOT spell out God, but use G_d or G-d.


I thought it was the word Ya___h that they refrained from using.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just remember when election time comes around again. They are hoping for short memories in the voting class.



NJG said:


> Yes, that requires more money into education. Now the republicans will give subsidies to rich farmers and big tax cuts to BP and Chevron and those guys, but education. Not so much. Kind of twisted thinking, isn't it?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Jokim said:


> I thought it was the word Ya___h that they refrained from using.


That as well, but mostly that would be Orthodox Jews.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Watching me again? Can't resist, can you? Are you still reading through thousands of old posts looking for information? Not much of a life.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I've noticed that long ago but don't read her posts because I remember they were all meaningless and stupid. I also remember she posts when no one else is on-line so she must be afraid to enter into conversation or have personal interactions with others.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> I have no idea what Rocky's religious affiliation is, but Jews do NOT spell out God, but use G_d or G-d.


She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word. Talk about fear from the teachings of your Faith.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You can't prepare to be a good Christian, unless you practice what you preach.


Every knee shall bow. I am ready. I am a born again believer . I only had to ask Jesus to save me. The rest was done at the Cross.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Like Prada?



knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! It wasn't bad luck, in the majority of the cases, it was buying too many material possessions and a house they couldn't afford so they went broke. Then when they couldn't afford their mortgage payments, because they HAD to HAVE every electronic gadget, new vehicle, $200 sneakers and jeans, etc., under the sun, they removed all their toys AND fixtures from their homes they walked away from them and filed for bankruptcy. Then they applied for taxpayer assistance and support, Medicaid and SNAP until they can do it all over again. Thank you Barney/Dodd.
> 
> Fifteen years ago the average credit card debt for an American was $17,000 (NOT for a car loan or mortgage) just STUFF!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word.


If that is true, then their Rabbi would be telling them they are showing disrespect. Call a Rabbi in your area and ask him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jokim said:


> In the 20th and 21st centuries slavery exists under a different form: slaves of the state.


It is hopeless to attempt to have a reasonable discussion with you, I remember now why I avoided your posts. 
Have some happy holidays now, God bless.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> If that is true, then their Rabbi would be telling them they are showing disrespect. Call a Rabbi in your area and ask him.


I don't care what fairy tale she thinks would happen to her for typing a word. That is her problem, not mine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A retraction and apology for the lie about Head Start would be classy. I think hell is safe as toasty warm.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't care what rubbish of fairy tale they think would happen to them for typing a word. That is her problem, not mine.


If you expect someone to respect your religious beliefs you should show respect for theirs.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Waiting with baited breath. Fat chance.



Cindy S said:


> Way back on page 72 at 13:36:00 I asked for a link to back up your claim that Head Start wasn't working. Now I am willing to think that maybe you missed that request, so I am again asking for a link to support your statement please.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> Waiting with baited breath. Fat chance.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> If you expect someone to respect your religious beliefs you should show respect for theirs.


She regularly defames, mocks and refutes my religion that she doesn't understand and only respects her religion.

I know what she is doing. Jews are not supposed to spell out the name of God if written in a permanent fashion where it could be defaced. That does not include on-line websites which are permanently stored making them unable to be edited. If someone were to print out her posts, they would not be defacing what she posted or created but what they printed. She shows no respect for Christianity yet I do not disrespect her religion.

Christians should be italicizing the word _Bible_ and _God_ but you don't see me criticizing others for not doing so do you?

Respect is earned and she does not have mine.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Charter schools and For-Profit Schools in general do a poor job of educating any students. They do generally make money for their corporations....for a time at least. I contend that education and health care are two industries that do not fit the profit model.


You aren't kidding, Dame.

My son attends a K-8 charter school and, while we like the emphasis on Spanish as a second language, the rest of the curriculum is dictated by whichever corporation is providing the grants: oceanography (multiple field trips to the beach to study the tide pools plus dozens of local fisherman coming to the school with stinky buckets of live fish and squid), organic agriculture (the parents were drafted into ripping up two acres of grass and sod behind the portables and laying out a garden), and now a daily class with the lofty name of "Design Tech" (the kids spend fifty minutes a day designing little machines out of toothpicks, rubber bands, and paper cups).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


How many believe that either the entire Bible is true of none of it is true? Who believes all of it is true? I'd like to see an unofficial poll among all members.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word. Talk about fear from the teachings of your Faith.


You aren't knocking her religious beliefs, are you?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> How many believe that either the entire Bible is true of none of it is true? Who believes all of it is true? I'd like to see an unofficial poll among all members.


As a Catholic I was taught that some of the stories in the Bible were symbolic, using words and imagery that people of those early times could understand. So no, I don't believe it's all literally true.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Personally I see the Bible was written by many men. I don't see truth everywhere so I vote no on Bible as ultimate proof of everything. Keep the votes coming.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> If that is true, then their Rabbi would be telling them they are showing disrespect. Call a Rabbi in your area and ask him.


You're right, Cindy. Another member on a different thread wrote of getting a flood of hate mail when she wrote G-d instead of God. People saw that, didn't understand, and believed she was being disrespectful.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's about respect and cultural tradition. Didn't you know that?



knitpresentgifts said:


> She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word. Talk about fear from the teachings of your Faith.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm here to thank God for not leading me to whatever Christian environments you have been lead to....It sounds a bit backwards to me. I'm half expecting you to tell us all about your snake handling. I'm much happier sitting in my church, listening to the good words of God. I get the feeling you were raised on Fire & Brimstone.


knitpresentgifts said:


> In all my years of hearing the gospel and teachings about or from the Bible, I have never heard a child or adult be intimidated or made to cower or feel threatened by the Bible's teachings.
> 
> Where do these Libs on this thread learn these ridiculous theories? No wonder none of them are Christians, I wouldn't be a follower either if God and Jesus wanted me to follow what the loons say is Biblical and the Truth and the Way. (Their ideas are NOT in the Bible nor are they taught in the Christian environments where I've been lead.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You prove the point. Thanks Susan.



susanmos2000 said:


> You aren't kidding, Dame.
> 
> My son attends a K-8 charter school and, while we like the emphasis on Spanish as a second language, the rest of the curriculum is dictated by whichever is providing the grants: oceanography (multiple field trips to the beach to study the tide pools plus dozens of local fisherman coming to the school with stinky buckets of live fish and squid), organic agriculture (the parents were drafted into ripping up two acres of grass and sod behind the portables and laying out a garden), and now a daily class with the lofty name of "Design Tech" (the kids spend fifty minutes a day designing little machines out of toothpicks, rubber bands, and paper cups).


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Personally I see the Bible was written by many men. I don't see truth everywhere so I vote no on Bible as ultimate proof of everything. Keep the votes coming.


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> You prove the point. Thanks Susan.


No problem. I'd lack to add too that the position of the non-union teachers of the school is pitiful. Roughly 25% of the staff is sacked each year--it's a revolving door. Unions might protect a relatively few incompetent members, but for the majority they provide the time and the job security teachers need to do a really good job with the kids.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> It's about respect and cultural tradition. Didn't you know that?


Well that figures, she backs herself into a corner and then disappears!

:roll:

Good night all, this old lady is going to bed!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Well that figures, she backs herself into a corner and then disappears!
> 
> :roll:
> 
> Good night all, this old lady is going to bed!!!


Same, Cindy. It's been a LONG day!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Awe come on.....I don't know anyone who is Jewish... Right now, you are putting down that particular belief because it isn't like yours. Are you in any way schooled in the Jewish religion? If not, which I'm sure you aren't.....because it would be like you were cheating on YOUR religion, then just shut up when you know nothing about what is being discussed. 
And as usual you are back peddling, trying to down play your stupidity. 
I personally know very little about the Jewish religion. I come from the upper Midwest, and we are made up mostly of Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans & Methodists. So it's a faith I'm not very familiar with. But then I don't go around telling everyone how they should be worshiping.
And if all you have in your life, is a skewed idea of what it is to be a Christian, you are really a sad case. What I really find hard to believe, is how you have the nerve to tell us we aren't good enough because we don't follow your religion. That is so narrow minded. 
I think your are probably the most ignorant person I've ever come across. 


knitpresentgifts said:


> She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word. Talk about fear from the teachings of your Faith.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Jokim said:


> I thought it was the word Ya___h that they refrained from using.


It is G-d. I have never heard anyone use Yawweh.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> That as well, but mostly that would be Orthodox Jews.


I was raised in an orthodox home, no one said Yaweh.
Perhaps the ultra orthodox use it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is Jewish. What is the purpose of that? It is a word. All the Jews I know are not afraid to type a word. Talk about fear from the teachings of your Faith.


I believe it is an old habit, nothing more.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Every knee shall bow. I am ready. I am a born again believer . I only had to ask Jesus to save me. The rest was done at the Cross.


BS it means you can be a miserable Christian all week and be saved each Sunday.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't care what fairy tale she thinks would happen to her for typing a word. That is her problem, not mine.


I have no problem....God God God....see I,m not scared just respectful, something you aren,t.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't care what fairy tale she thinks would happen to her for typing a word. That is her problem, not mine.


Then why bring it up? What difference should it make to you whether she wants to spell it G-d or god or even dog? (And no, I'm not lying by being here; I just decided to see what was going on and you popped up.)


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She regularly defames, mocks and refutes my religion that she doesn't understand and only respects her religion.
> 
> I know what she is doing. Jews are not supposed to spell out the name of God if written in a permanent fashion where it could be defaced. That does not include on-line websites which are permanently stored making them unable to be edited. If someone were to print out her posts, they would not be defacing what she posted or created but what they printed. She shows no respect for Christianity yet I do not disrespect her religion.
> 
> ...


Actually I have no respect for any organized religion. But I have been married to two Christian men, I do know the difference between a good Christian and you professed Christians on this forum. If I believed in Hell you would all be there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> How many believe that either the entire Bible is true of none of it is true? Who believes all of it is true? I'd like to see an unofficial poll among all members.


Of course one can pick and choose which parts to believe. I, for one, don't believe the part written in Greek. And much as I like a good story, that apple and serpent one is a bit over the top.

I think Joey's problem is that since she can't use logic to decide what is or is not credible, she has to believe it all, since that's what she's been told.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

KPGs wrote.....Christians should be italicizing the word Bible and God but you don't see me criticizing others for not doing so do you?

Just how old are you? Are you Baptist? I'm trying to figure out just what kind of religion you come from. You have such old fashioned ideas. I know the Baptist's are all about Hell fire and Damnation. And you sound like you come from that category. 
I don't know what religion you belong to, but it sure makes me glad I'm a Methodist. We are a much more forgiving and accepting Church. Yours is much to harsh. But that does explain why you are so fanatical about the subjects you get all fanatical about. I'm surprised your aren't calling us all witches and demanding we all be burned at the stake.

P.S. You don't have a God given right to criticize anyone for the way they choose to write what you consider religious words, or names. So don't act so self righteous.......


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> It is G-d. I have never heard anyone use Yawweh.


One could argue that "God," being spelled out in the Latin alphabet, could not be the name of the deity. The Hebrew letters that supposedly are used to spell his name might be pronounced Yawweh, but they might be pronounced some other way (sounds like a pun); biblical Hebrew was not written with vowels, so though we know the consonants, we don't know the pronunciation.

But shouldn't we really be talking about what we believe rather than how we spell it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I was raised in an orthodox home, no one said Yaweh.
> Perhaps the ultra orthodox use it.


No, the ultra-orthodox not only *do not* use it; they no longer even use the traditional words except when reciting blessings and prayers. Instead, they use a Hebrew word (_Hashem_) that means simply "the name."

It was more likely scholars (not of religion but of history) who came up with that pronunciation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

No one could accuse you of preaching to the choir. :lol: :lol: :lol:


Nussa said:


> KPGs wrote.....Christians should be italicizing the word Bible and God but you don't see me criticizing others for not doing so do you?
> 
> Just how old are you? Are you Baptist? I'm trying to figure out just what kind of religion you come from. You have such old fashioned ideas. I know the Baptist's are all about Hell fire and Damnation. And you sound like you come from that category.
> I don't know what religion you belong to, but it sure makes me glad I'm a Methodist. We are a much more forgiving and accepting Church. Yours is much to harsh. But that does explain why you are so fanatical about the subjects you get all fanatical about. I'm surprised your aren't calling us all witches and demanding we all be burned at the stake.
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Awe come on.....I don't think you know anyone who is Jewish... Right now, you are putting down that particular belief because it isn't like yours. Are you in any way schooled in the Jewish religion? If not, which I'm sure you aren't.....because it would be like you were cheating on YOUR religion, then just shut up when you know nothing about what is being discussed.
> And as usual you are back peddling, trying to down play your stupidity.
> I personally know very little about the Jewish religion. I come from the upper Midwest, and we are made up mostly of Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans & Methodists. So it's a faith I'm not very familiar with. But then I don't go around telling everyone how they should be worshiping.
> And if all you have in your life, is a skewed idea of what it is to be a Christian, you are really a sad case. What I really find hard to believe, is how you have the nerve to tell us we aren't good enough because we don't follow your religion. That is so narrow minded.
> I think your are probably the most ignorant person I've ever come across.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Charlton Heston in the Ten Commandments?



rocky1991 said:


> It is G-d. I have never heard anyone use Yawweh.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I have no problem....God God God....see I,m not scared just respectful, something you aren,t.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I consider myself to be a Christian, but unlike you , I will leave that judgement for the good Lord to decide as to just how good a Christian I have been. Unlike you and your friends who praise each others holiness. I don't need your type of Christian history to help me decide what I believe. I use my own good judgement. I believe that God gave us a brains to use, and a conscience to decide how to treat others. He wants us to use them, not be robots who will follow anyone with a Bible in his hand, or someone spouting the scriptures. When my time comes, I will welcome my meeting with the Lord.
> P.S. Any snide remarks you make after reading this post would put you in the, not being a very good Christian category. :wink: .


What you describe is Relativism, which Pope Benedict has condemned for years. I personally find it sad when people have this self centered form of religion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism

Benedict XVI' comments

In April 2005, in his homily[16] during Mass prior to the conclave which would elect him as Pope, then Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger talked about the world "moving towards a dictatorship of relativism":
How many winds of doctrine we have known in recent decades, how many ideological currents, how many ways of thinking. The small boat of thought of many Christians has often been tossed about by these waves ¬ thrown from one extreme to the other: from Marxism to liberalism, even to libertinism; from collectivism to radical individualism; from atheism to a vague religious mysticism; from agnosticism to syncretism, and so forth. Every day new sects are created and what Saint Paul says about human trickery comes true, with cunning which tries to draw those into error (cf Ephesians 4, 14). Having a clear Faith, based on the Creed of the Church, is often labeled today as a fundamentalism. Whereas, relativism, which is letting oneself be tossed and "swept along by every wind of teaching", looks like the only attitude acceptable to today's standards. We are moving towards a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as certain and which has as its highest goal one's own ego and one's own desires. However, we have a different goal: the Son of God, true man. He is the measure of true humanism. Being an "Adult" means having a faith which does not follow the waves of today's fashions or the latest novelties. A faith which is deeply rooted in friendship with Christ is adult and mature. It is this friendship which opens us up to all that is good and gives us the knowledge to judge true from false, and deceit from truth.
On June 6, 2005, Pope Benedict XVI told educators:

Today, a particularly insidious obstacle to the task of education is the massive presence in our society and culture of that relativism which, recognizing nothing as definitive, leaves as the ultimate criterion only the self with its desires. And under the semblance of freedom it becomes a prison for each one, for it separates people from one another, locking each person into his or her own 'ego'.[17]

Then during the World Youth Day in August 2005, he also traced to relativism the problems produced by the communist and sexual revolutions, and provided a counter-counter argument.[18]
In the last century we experienced revolutions with a common programmeexpecting nothing more from God, they assumed total responsibility for the cause of the world in order to change it. And this, as we saw, meant that a human and partial point of view was always taken as an absolute guiding principle. Absolutizing what is not absolute but relative is called totalitarianism. It does not liberate man, but takes away his dignity and enslaves him. It is not ideologies that save the world, but only a return to the living God, our Creator, the Guarantor of our freedom, the Guarantor of what is really good and true.
Criticisms[edit]


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> No you don't!!!.....You thrive on it and you know it. And you are the only one doing the TWIST on this site. You're the one who's always bringing it up. So at least we now know what makes you tick, and why you twist. Quote - ( I have learned that people with severe problems do that. It is a defense mechanism. They are so easily shattered that anything that does not fit their thinking is twisted to fit their world.)-Unquote..... You just described yourself to a T.


 :lol: :lol: Looks like you're upset. I guess I hit a nerve dead center.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Way to ho LL. That sounds like a description of all you right wing rhetoric. All orthodoxy reacts the same way. Deny, deny, deny and twist things to their own perspective.


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Tis the season for the ho ho ho's


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> BS it means you can be a miserable Christian all week and be saved each Sunday.


My salvation is not BS. I live it everyday. That is why you don't like me. Someone already said I need a pulpit so it must mean I am showing it. I am a very happy Christian. I have JOY! I love you JESUS. I love Yahweh too. I even love the Holy Spirit. Amen


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I was raised in an orthodox home, no one said Yaweh.
> Perhaps the ultra orthodox use it.


Yahweh


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My salvation is not BS. I live it everyday. That is why you don't like me. Someone already said I need a pulpit so it must mean I am showing it. I am a very happy Christian. I have JOY! I love you JESUS. I love Yahweh too. I even love the Holy Spirit. Amen


I have a ton of respect for you CB. It is easy to see that you are a very "centered" person.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have a ton of respect for you CB. It is easy to see that you are a very "centered" person.


Thank you! XX


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

he Names of God in the Old Testament

Introduction
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
El Elyon (The Most High God)
Adonai (Lord, Master)
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)
Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord That Heals)
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)
El Olam (The Everlasting God)
Elohim (God)
Qanna (Jealous)
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)

Introduction

"Let them praise the name of the LORD: for his name alone is excellent; his glory [is] above the earth and heaven." Psa 148:13

In the Old Testament times, a name was not only identification, but an identity as well. Many times a special meaning was attached to the name. Names had, among other purposes, an explanatory purpose (e.g., Nabal, whose name means "fool," is the target of Abigail's explanation to David: "For as his name is, so is he; Nabal is his name, and folly is with him:" - 1Sa 25:25). Throughout Scripture God reveals Himself to us through His names. When we study these names that He reveals to us in the Bible, we will better understand who God really is. The meanings behind God's names reveal the central personality and nature of the One who bears them.

Who is God to you?

Is He your Most High God, All sufficient One, Master, Lord of Peace, the Lord Who Will Provide? Is He your Father? We must be careful not to make God into an "it" or a "thing" to which we pray. He is our Jehovah Raah, the Lord our Shepherd. God knows us by our name, shouldn't we know Him by His?

Hallowed be Your name?

To hallow a thing is to make it holy or to set it apart to be exalted as being worthy of absolute devotion. To hallow the name of God is to regard Him with complete devotion and loving admiration. God's name is of the utmost importance (Neh 9:5); therefore we ought reserve it a position of grave significance in our minds and hearts. We should never take His name lightly (Exd 20:7; Lev 22:32), but always rejoice in it and think deeply upon its true meaning.
El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)

(el shad-di')
All-Sufficient One, Lord God Almighty

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament El Shaddai occurs 7 times. El Shaddai is first used in Gen 17:1.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 2333

Strong's Reference: H7706

El Shaddai in the Septuagint: theou saddai - God Shaddai; pantokratôr (for Shaddai) - the Almighty

Meaning and Derivation: El is another name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Another word much like Shaddai, and from which many believe it derived, is shad meaning "breast" in Hebrew (some other scholars believe that the name is derived from an Akkadian word adu, meaning "mountain," suggesting strength and power). This refers to God completely nourishing, satisfying, and supplying His people with all their needs as a mother would her child. Connected with the word for God, El, this denotes a God who freely gives nourishment and blessing, He is our sustainer.

Further references of the name El Shaddai in the Old Testament: Gen 17:1; Gen 28:3; Gen 35:11; Gen 43:14; Gen 48:3
El Elyon (The Most High God)

(el el-yone')
The Most High God

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament El Elyon occurs 28 times. It occurs 19 times in Psalms. El Elyon is first used in Gen 14:18.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 1624g, 1624h

Strong's Reference: H5945

El Elyon in the Septuagint: ho theos ho hupsistos - the God most high

Meaning and Derivation: El is another name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Elyon literally means "Most High" and is used both adjectivally and substantivally throughout the Old Testament. It expresses the extreme sovereignty and majesty of God and His highest preeminence. When the two words are combined - El Elyon - it can be translated as "the most exalted God."(Psa 57:2)

Further references of the name El Elyon in the Old Testament: Gen 14:18; Gen 14:19; Gen 14:20; Gen 14:22; Psa 57:2; Psa 78:35
Adonai (Lord, Master)

(ad-o-noy')
Lord, Master

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Adonai occurs 434 times. There are heavy uses of Adonai in Isaiah (e.g., Adonai Jehovah). It occurs 200 times in Ezekiel alone and appears 11 times in Daniel Chapter 9. Adonai is first used in Gen 15:2.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 27b

Strong's Reference: H136

Adonai in the Septuagint: kurios - Lord, Master

Meaning and Derivation: Adonai is the verbal parallel to Yahweh and Jehovah. Adonai is plural; the singular is adon. In reference to God the plural Adonai is used. When the singular adon is used, it usually refers to a human lord. Adon is used 215 times to refer to men. Occasionally in Scripture and predominantly in the Psalms, the singular adon is used to refer to God as well (cf. Exd 34:23). To avoid contravening the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" (Exd 20:7), sometimes Adonai was used as a substitute for Yahweh (YHWH). Adonai can be translated literally as, "my lords' " (both plural and possessive).

Further references of the name Adonai in the Old Testament: Complete list available here.
Yahweh (Lord, Jehovah)

(yah-weh)
Lord, Jehovah

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Yahweh occurs 6,519 times. This name is used more than any other name of God. Yahweh is first used in Gen 2:4.

Variant spellings: YHWH, Jehovah

TWOT Reference: 484a

Strong's Reference: H3068

Yahwehin the Septuagint: kurios - Lord, Master
despotês - Lord, Master, denoting the omnipotence of God (TDNT), despot, absolute ruler

Meaning and Derivation: Yahweh is the promised name of God. This name of God which (by Jewish tradition) is too holy to voice, is actually spelled "YHWH" without vowels. YHWH is referred to as the Tetragrammaton (which simply means "the four letters"). YHWH comes from the Hebrew letters: Yud, Hay, Vav, Hay. While YHWH is first used in Genesis 2, God did not reveal Himself as YHWH until Exodus 3. The modern spelling as "Yahweh" includes vowels to assist in pronunciation. Many pronounce YHWH as "Yahweh" or "Jehovah." We no longer know for certain the exact pronunciation. During the third century A.D., the Jewish people stopped saying this name in fear of contravening the commandment "Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain" (Exd 20:7). As a result of this, Adonai is occasionally a substitute for YHWH. The following compound names which start with "YHWH" have been shown using "Jehovah." This is due to the common usage of "Jehovah" in the English of these compound names in the early English translations of the Bible (e.g., the Geneva Bible, the King James Version, etc.).

Further references of the name Yahweh in the Old Testament: Complete list available here.
Jehovah Nissi (The Lord My Banner)

(yeh-ho-vaw' nis-see')
The Lord My Banner, The Lord My Miracle

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah-Nissi occurs only once in Exd 17:15.

Variant spellings: Jehovah Nisi; Jehovahnissi

TWOT Reference: None

Strong's Reference: H3071

Jehovah Nissi in the Septuagint: kurios kataphugê mou - the Lord is my refuge

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Nes (nês), from which Nissi derived, means "banner" in Hebrew. In Exd 17:15, Moses, recognizing that the Lord was Israel's banner under which they defeated the Amalekites, builds an altar named Jehovah-Nissi (the Lord our Banner). Nes is sometimes translated as a pole with an insignia attached. In battle opposing nations would fly their own flag on a pole at each of their respective front lines. This was to give their soldiers a feeling of hope and a focal point. This is what God is to us: a banner of encouragement to give us hope and a focal point.

Further references of the name Jehovah Nissi in the Old Testament: Exd 17:15
Jehovah-Raah (The Lord My Shepherd)

(yeh-ho-vaw' raw-aw')
The Lord My Shepherd

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah-Raah (The Lord my Shepherd) is used in Psalm 23.

Variant spellings: Jehovah Rohi; Jehovah Ro'eh

TWOT Reference: 2185, 2186

Strong's Reference: H7462

Jehovah-Raah in the Septuagint: kurios poimainei me - the Lord shepherds me

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Rô'eh from which Raah derived, means "shepherd" in Hebrew. A shepherd is one who feeds or leads his flock to pasture (Eze 34:11-15). An extend translation of this word, rea', is "friend" or "companion." This indicates the intimacy God desires between Himself and His people. When the two words are combined - Jehovah Raah - it can be translated as "The Lord my Friend."

Further references of the name Jehovah-Raah in the Old Testament: Gen 48:15; Gen 49:24; Psa 23:1; Psa 80:1
Jehovah Rapha (The Lord Who Heals)

(yeh-ho-vaw' raw-faw')
The Lord That Heals

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah-Rapha (The Lord that Heals) is used in Exd 15:26.

Variant spellings: Jehovah-Rophe; Jehovah Rophecha; Jehovah Raphah

TWOT Reference: 2196

Strong's Reference: H7495

Jehovah Rapha in the Septuagint: kurios ho iômenos se - the Lord your healer

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Rapha (râpâ') means "to restore", "to heal" or "to make healthful" in Hebrew. When the two words are combined - Jehovah Rapha - it can be translated as "Jehovah Who Heals." (cf. Jer 30:17; Jer 3:22; Isa 30:26; Isa 61:1; Psa 103:3). Jehovah is the Great Physician who heals the physical and emotional needs of His people.

Further references of the name Jehovah Rapha in the Old Testament: Exd 15:26
Jehovah Shammah (The Lord Is There)

(yeh-ho-vaw' shawm'-maw)
The Lord Is There

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah Shammah occurs only once in Ezekiel 48:35.

Variant spellings: Jehovah Samma

TWOT Reference: None

Strong's Reference: H3074

Jehovah Shammah in the Septuagint: estai to onoma autês - the name thereof

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Shammah is derived from the Hebrew word sham, which can be translated as "there." Jehovah Shammah is a symbolic name for the earthly Jerusalem. The name indicates that God has not abandoned Jerusalem, leaving it in ruins, but that there will be a restoration.

Further references of the name Jehovah Shammah in the Old Testament: Eze 48:35
Jehovah Tsidkenu (The Lord Our Righteousness)

(yeh-ho-vaw' tsid-kay'-noo)
The Lord Our Righteousness

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah Tsidkenu occurs 2 times. Jehovah Tsidkenu is first used in Jer 23:6.

Variant spellings: Jehovah Tzidkaynu; Jehovah Tsidqenuw

TWOT Reference: None

Strong's Reference: H3072

Jehovah Tsidkenu in the Septuagint: kuriou tou theou hêmôn elalêsen pros hêmas - the Lord our God spoke to us

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Tsedek (tseh'-dek), from which Tsidkenu derived, means "to be stiff," "to be straight," or "righteous" in Hebrew. When the two words are combined - Jehovah Tsidkenu - it can be translated as "The Lord Who is our Righteousness."

Further references of the name Jehovah Tsidkenu in the Old Testament: Jer 23:6; Jer 33:16
Jehovah Mekoddishkem (The Lord Who Sanctifies You)

(yeh-ho-vaw' M-qadash)
The Lord Who Sanctifies You, The Lord Who Makes Holy

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah Mekoddishkem occurs 2 times. Jehovah Mekoddishkem is first used in Exd 31:13.

Variant spellings: Jehovah M'kaddesh

TWOT Reference: 1990

Strong's Reference: H6942

Jehovah Mekoddishkem in the Septuagint: kurios ho hagiazôn humas - the Lord that sanctifies you

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Mekoddishkem derives from the Hebrew word qâdash meaning "sanctify," "holy," or "dedicate." Sanctification is the separation of an object or person to the dedication of the Holy. When the two words are combined - Jehovah Mekoddishkem - it can be translated as "The Lord who sets you apart."

Further references of the name Jehovah Mekoddishkem in the Old Testament: Exd 31:13; Lev 20:8
El Olam (The Everlasting God)

(el o-lawm')
The Everlasting God, The God of Eternity, The God of the Universe, The God of Ancient Days

Use in the Bible: El Olam is first used in Gen 21:33.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 1631a

Strong's Reference: H5769

El Olamin the Septuagint: [ho] theos [ho] aiônios - the everlasting God

Meaning and Derivation: El is another name that is translated as "God" and can be used in conjunction with other words to designate various aspects of God's character. Olam derives from the root word 'lm (which means "eternity"). Olam literally means "forever," "eternity," or "everlasting". When the two words are combined - El Olam - it can be translated as "The Eternal God."

Further references of the name El Olam in the Old Testament: Gen 21:33; Jer 10:10; Isa 26:4
Elohim (God)

(el-o-heem')
God, Judge, Creator

Use in the Bible: : In the Old Testament Elohim occurs over 2000 times. Elohim is first used in Gen 1:1.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 93c

Strong's Reference: H430

Elohim in the Septuagint: theos - the standard Greek word for god, "a transcendent being who exercises extraordinary control in human affairs or is responsible for bestowal of unusual benefits" (BDAG). It specifically refers to the monotheistic God of Israel.

Meaning and Derivation: Elohim is translated as "God." The derivation of the name Elohim is debatable to most scholars. Some believe it derived from 'êl which, in turn, originates from the root word, 'wl (which means "strong"). Others think that Elohim is derived from another two roots: 'lh (which means "god") in conjunction with 'elôah (which means "fear"). And still others presume that both 'êl and Elohim come from 'eloah.

Further references of the name Elohim in the Old Testament: Complete list available here.
Qanna (Jealous)

(kan-naw')
Jealous, Zealous

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Qanna occurs 6 times. Qanna is first used in Exd 20:5.

Variant spellings: Kanna

TWOT Reference: 2038b

Strong's Reference: H7067

Qanna in the Septuagint: zêlôtês - jealous

Meaning and Derivation: Qanna is translated as "jealous," "zealous," or "envy." The fundamental meaning relates to a marriage relationship. God is depicted as Israel's husband; He is a jealous God, wanting all our praise for Himself and no one else. (cf. Exd 34:14)

Further references of the name Qanna in the Old Testament: Exd 20:5; Exd 34:14; Deu 4:24; Deu 5:9; Deu 6:15
Jehovah Jireh (The Lord Will Provide)

(yeh-ho-vaw' yir-eh')
The Lord Will Provide

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah-Jireh occurs only once in Gen 22:14.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: None

Strong's Reference: H3070

Jehovah Jireh in the Septuagint: kurios eiden - the Lord has seen

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Jehovah-Jireh is a symbolic name given to Mount Moriah by Abraham to memorialize the intercession of God in the sacrifice of Isaac by providing a substitute for the imminent sacrifice of his son.

Further references of the name Jehovah Jireh in the Old Testament: Gen 22:14
Jehovah Shalom (The Lord Is Peace)

(yeh-ho-vaw' shaw-lome')
The Lord Is Peace

Use in the Bible: In the Old Testament Jehovah-Shalom occurs only once in Jdg 6:24.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: None

Strong's Reference: H3073

Jehovah-Shalom in the Septuagint: eirênê kuriou - peace of the Lord

Meaning and Derivation: Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Shalom is a derivative of shâlêm (which means "be complete" or "sound") Shalom is translated as "peace" or "absence from strife." Jehovah-Shalom is the name of an altar built by Gideon in Ophrah.

Further references of the name Jehovah-Shalom in the Old Testament: Jdg 6:24
Jehovah Sabaoth (The Lord of Hosts)

(yeh-ho-vaw' se ba'ôt)
The Lord of Hosts, The Lord of Powers

Use in the Bible: Jehovah and Elohim occur with Sabaoth over 285 times. It is most frequently used in Jeremiah and Isaiah. Jehovah Sabaoth is first used in 1Sa 1:3.

Variant spellings: None

TWOT Reference: 1865a, 1865b

Strong's Reference: H6635

Jehovah Sabaoth in the Septuagint: kurios sabaôth - the Lord of hosts (sabaôth: Gr. transliteration of Heb. "hosts")

Meaning and Derivation: Jehovah is translated as "The Existing One" or "Lord." The chief meaning of Jehovah is derived from the Hebrew word Havah meaning "to be" or "to exist." It also suggests "to become" or specifically "to become known" - this denotes a God who reveals Himself unceasingly. Sabaoth (se bâ'ôt) means "armies" or "hosts." Jehovah Sabaoth can be translated as "The Lord of Armies" (1Sa 1:3). This name denotes His universal sovereignty over every army, both spiritual and earthly. The Lord of Hosts is the king of all heaven and earth. (Psa 24:9-10; Psa 84:3; Isa 6:5).

Further references of the name Jehovah Sabaoth in the Old Testament: 1Sa 1:11; 1Sa 17:45; 2Sa 6:18; 2Sa 7:27; 1Ki 19:14; 2Ki 3:14; 1Ch 11:9; Psa 24:10; Psa 48:8; Psa 80:4; Psa 80:19; Psa 84:3; Isa 1:24; Isa 3:15; Isa 5:16; Isa 6:5; Isa 9:19; Isa 10:26; Isa 14:22; Jer 9:15; Jer 48:1; Hsa 12:5; Amo 3:13; Mic 4:4; Nah 3:5; Hag 2:6; Zec 1:3; Mal 1:6; Hab 2:13; Zep 2:9


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Being a Christian means 24/7/52.


 :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Faith is a personal issue. The Pope of the Roman Catholic Church has little authority outside the Church.



lovethelake said:


> What you describe is Relativism, which Pope Benedict has condemned for years. I personally find it sad when people have this self centered form of religion
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have a ton of respect for you CB. It is easy to see that you are a very "centered" person.


'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


I don't have to be perfect. I am forgiven. That is why I am satisfied. Jesus can be your salvation too Susan. Just ask Him to forgive you of your sins like I have. Maybe you can have Joy like me!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


Here is a song for your troubled spirit.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwwcsSH5bI


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What you describe is Relativism, which Pope Benedict has condemned for years. I personally find it sad when people have this self centered form of religion
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting this excellent article, LTL. God guarantees us freedom! The framers of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers phrased it as we are endowed with unalienable rights given to us by the Creator. Kudos! :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Faith is a personal issue. The Pope of the Roman Catholic Church has little authority outside the Church.


Yes, but he has a large following! :thumbup: 
The answer to Stalin's question: 'How many divisions does the Pope have?', came in 1981, when Pope John Paul II giving impetus to Solidarity and with the backing of Pres. Reagan, by his election to the Papacy, encouraged a nation (Poland) to rise up and abolish its slavish, socialist government and in the process, bring down Stalin's empire.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Well that figures, she backs herself into a corner and then disappears!
> 
> :roll:
> 
> Good night all, this old lady is going to bed!!!


I did not do either. I left KP to enjoy my family and work as I don't waste my time reading or responding to the idiots in this thread who were on KP at the time I logged off (I'm not referring to you BTW). I didn't back into any corner.


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> he Names of God in the Old Testament
> 
> Introduction
> El Shaddai (Lord God Almighty)
> ...


Thank you, CB, for posting this excellent and very informative article. Other things that are present in the Old Testament, esp. prominent this time of the year (Advent), are the O Antiphons. They are quotes from the OT that refer to Jesus, the Messiah to come in the NT.; O Wisdom..., O Key of David..., etc.
Great Job, CB! :thumbup: :thumbup: 
BTW, O bama... is not among them.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I believe it is an old habit, nothing more.


You don't even know the traditions and teachings of your own faith.

Yet you are willing to tell me about mine.

What arrogance!


----------



## Jokim (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


No one said they were perfect. Seeking perfection with God's help, yes.
That is a lifelong issue.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My salvation is not BS. I live it everyday. That is why you don't like me. Someone already said I need a pulpit so it must mean I am showing it. I am a very happy Christian. I have JOY! I love you JESUS. I love Yahweh too. I even love the Holy Spirit. Amen


 :thumbup: She is a terrible person. She is disrespectful to any KP poster she doesn't like or agree with and Christians and doesn't even understand her own Faith not that she believes or practices it.

I love all my non-believer, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish friends both in my life and here on KP. My friends know what they represent and we all respect one another.

We don't use anger and vulgarity to speak to one another and we acknowledge, understand and respects each's beliefs and traditions.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


You are reading it all wrong.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you, CB, for posting this excellent and very informative article. Other things that are present in the Old Testament, esp. prominent this time of the year (Advent), are the O Antiphons. They are quotes from the OT that refer to Jesus, the Messiah to come in the NT.; O Wisdom..., O Key of David..., etc.
> Great Job, CB! :thumbup: :thumbup:
> BTW, O bama... is not among them.


No o is not! :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Charter schools and For-Profit Schools in general do a poor job of educating any students. They do generally make money for their corporations....for a time at least.* I contend that education and health care are two industries that do not fit the profit model.*


You are entirely correct, IMO: Education -- public education, not specialized or religious education -- is properly a function of government and should not be privatized. Many believe the same is or should be true of healthcare, and I am one as well.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Christians should be italicizing the word _Bible_ and _God_ but you don't see me criticizing others for not doing so do you?


Where'dja get that harebrained idea?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> 'Centered', yes--on herself and her state of spiritual perfection, as are you all. Frankly, I've never seen such a group of smug, self-satisfied Christians in my life. You gals are the limit.


Seems to me that CB provided a glimpse into the reason for the smugness:



Country Bumpkins said:


> *I don't have to be perfect. I am forgiven. That is why I am satisfied.* Jesus can be your salvation too Susan. Just ask Him to forgive you of your sins like I have. Maybe you can have Joy like me!


I don't notice all that much joy but I do understand that judging others (and finding them wanting as Christians and as citizens and God knows what else) can be a pretty heady experience. I think they tend to mistake that for joy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Being a Christian means 24/7/52.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> You are reading it all wrong.


She can read?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> In all my years of hearing the gospel and teachings about or from the Bible, I have never heard a child or adult be intimidated or made to cower or feel threatened by the Bible's teachings.
> 
> Where do these Libs on this thread learn these ridiculous theories? No wonder none of them are Christians, I wouldn't be a follower either if God and Jesus wanted me to follow what the loons say is Biblical and the Truth and the Way. (Their ideas are NOT in the Bible nor are they taught in the Christian environments where I've been lead.)


You must live a very sheltered life. Unfortunately, just ONE example of the "spiritual abuse" that comes from your version of Christianity and is responsible for much suffering in the world is teaching people -- especially young people -- NOT that they made a mistake, but that they ARE a mistake (borrowing John Bradshaw's illuminating phrase) because they are gay. One result of this is a higher suicide rate among teens who are gay than those who are not. NO teen should ever feel suicide is the best "option" for whatever they're facing, but it's especially tragic for gay and lesbian teens because it's such a lie and thus so preventable.

Another form of spiritual abuse, and the cause of great suffering all over the globe ad something which leads to the death of many each and every day is the teaching that women are in any way inferior. Of course, Christianity is not the only patriarchal religion that teaches that, but Christianity has done -- and continues to do -- its damage globally, and with a vengeance. It's pure, unadulterated misogyny, and it's wrong, and real people suffer every day because the belief has infected our entire culture.

That's just two of the ways people are threatened and made to cower because of either what is in the Bible, or what people say is in the Bible.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I don't notice all that much joy but I do understand that judging others (and finding them wanting as Christians and as citizens and God knows what else) can be a pretty heady experience. I think they tend to mistake that for joy.


I think you are thinking the wrong thought. Is seems to me that the libs are the ones doing all the judging. You just judged me.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

No, actually I was quite pleased If anything, I may have been a little over excited to once again be able to show everyone what she is. But if it makes you happy to think that it upset me.......Then consider it my Christmas gift to you...... :thumbup: .....


Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: Looks like you're upset. I guess I hit a nerve dead center.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well aren't you the most grown up little Christian??? 
Now you are resorting to "Sticks and stones??"


Country Bumpkins said:


> Yahweh


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well aren't you the most grown up little Christian???
> Now you are resorting to "Sticks and stones??"


What?????


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I've never had a credit card, and plan to die without ever having one. I think they're an invention of the devil, figuratively speaking. Coupled with the gobs of advertising on the boob tube, that tell us we really need 27 pairs of new shoes every 3 months, and all the other ads that tell us about everything we absolutely must have, there's the recipe for the huge disaster of the massive credit card debt problem in this country.

Wow, we can spend and spend and spend on credit and die in debt surrounded by all those must-have possessions. What is wrong with living within one's means? What's wrong with classifying most of the must-have possessions as luxuries and saving up to buy the ones you really want? Why do people want to become wage slaves, one of the things they get to be if they have that old credit card debt on their backs?

Oh, rant, rave, gripe and groan. This is a subject that gets me right on my soap box.


knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! It wasn't bad luck, in the majority of the cases, it was buying too many material possessions and a house they couldn't afford so they went broke. Then when they couldn't afford their mortgage payments, because they HAD to HAVE every electronic gadget, new vehicle, $200 sneakers and jeans, etc., under the sun, they removed all their toys AND fixtures from their homes they walked away from them and filed for bankruptcy. Then they applied for taxpayer assistance and support, Medicaid and SNAP until they can do it all over again. Thank you Barney/Dodd.
> 
> Fifteen years ago the average credit card debt for an American was $17,000 (NOT for a car loan or mortgage) just STUFF!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Of course, no empathy from you republicans. Group all "those people" together and no second chances. Do it right the first time or you are done. You expect them to be a perfect as you are, because of course you have never made a mistake!!!!!!!! :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:
> :evil: :twisted: You are such nasty idiots.


Since I'm not a Republican, so I guess I have some empathy. I don't expect anyone to be perfect and think most of us have had some second chances that taught us something important and saved our hides, too. What bothers me is the deeply materialistic society we seem to have made for ourselves. Surely there's something better than materialism to base our lives on. I bet we'd all be better off if we threw away our TVs so we couldn't be so easily brainwashed by the masses of advertising telling us what we have to have to live a socially acceptable life.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I completely agree with you on the evils of credit cards. They were at one time a good tool to have, so as not to need to carry cash. But then the credit card companies started giving them out to anyone and everyone, because they knew they could make a haul on the high interest rates they charge. How many of us have heard stories of babies getting credit card applications in the mail? 
And yes.....it seems a great deal of the population think it's free money. I have one credit card. I don't use it but once a month. And wouldn't do that except they cancel your card if you don't use it at least once a month. We have it because if you want to reserve a motel room, you need to have a credit card #. And when the bill comes, it is paid off in full, immediately. I believe it all comes down to using common sense.


MaidInBedlam said:


> I've never had a credit card, and plan to die without ever having one. I think they're an invention of the devil, figuratively speaking. Coupled with the gobs of advertising on the boob tube, that tell us we really need 27 pairs of new shoes every 3 months, and all the other ads that tell us about everything we absolutely must have, there's the recipe for the huge disaster of the massive credit card debt problem in this country.
> 
> Wow, we can spend and spend and spend on credit and die in debt surrounded by all those must-have possessions. What is wrong with living within one's means? What's wrong with classifying most of the must-have possessions as luxuries and saving up to buy the ones you really want? Why do people want to become wage slaves, one of the things they get to be if they have that old credit card debt on their backs?
> 
> Oh, rant, rave, gripe and groan. This is a subject that gets me right on my soap box.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since I'm not a Republican, so I guess I have some empathy. I don't expect anyone to be perfect and think most of us have had some second chances that taught us something important and saved our hides, too. What bothers me is the deeply materialistic society we seem to have made for ourselves. Surely there's something better than materialism to base our lives on. I bet we'd all be better off if we threw away our TVs so we couldn't be so easily brainwashed by the masses of advertising telling us what we have to have to live a socially acceptable life.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Only you would drag the Pope into Politics. He's in the business of saving souls, not bolstering your Republican fanaticism....


Jokim said:


> Yes, but he has a large following! :thumbup:
> The answer to Stalin's question: 'How many divisions does the Pope have?', came in 1981, when Pope John Paul II giving impetus to Solidarity and with the backing of Pres. Reagan, by his election to the Papacy, encouraged a nation (Poland) to rise up and abolish its slavish, socialist government and in the process, bring down Stalin's empire.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It is so sad that you won't see people for what they actually have done. They have no one to blame for their behavior but themselves. No one made them buy items they could not afford, they went shopping knowing they couldn't afford the items. You just keep giving them a free pass and blame the Republicans for everything that has happened.


There really is something to blame for how people use their money. We swim in a sea of advertising that tells us what we have to have. Messages are repeated over and over and over again until many people really believe they an'tlive without the latest gadget or shoes or clothes or furniture or, or , or. Advertising is just another form of brainwashing.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh, you do it all the time.....I'll bet you sit there biting your nails wondering if you might have taken it just a bit to far.......Then you come back later with amnesia about the whole subject. Frankly it's become a running joke around here.



knitpresentgifts said:


> I did not do either. I left KP to enjoy my family and work as I don't waste my time reading or responding to the idiots in this thread who were on KP at the time I logged off (I'm not referring to you BTW). I didn't back into any corner.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think you are thinking the wrong thought. Is seems to me that the libs are the ones doing all the judging. You just judged me.


God gave us a free will to do as we think is right. He did not make us to all have the same thoughts or what would we be like.

To not agree with others does not mean or make us least of a Chrisitan. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We ask for forgiveness every hour of every day. We are not Christ like yet. That will only happen when we stand before God and he shows us are sins and forgive us.

For all who say we celebrate what use to be a pagan holiday. You are right but that is why the Christian thought to change that day to mean for Christ and yes I know Christ was not born on Dec.25th , but We still celebrate his birth.

So to all may you have a blessed Christmas and may the New Year grant you peace health and love.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My salvation is not BS. I live it everyday. That is why you don't like me. Someone already said I need a pulpit so it must mean I am showing it. I am a very happy Christian. I have JOY! I love you JESUS. I love Yahweh too. I even love the Holy Spirit. Amen


Hard to see Love in your writings.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yahweh


for crying out tears, a spelling lesson. Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Being a Christian means 24/7/52.


Try acting like one then.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> for crying out tears, a spelling lesson. Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh Yahweh


sad


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jokim said:


> Don't twist my words! Where did I indicate that I favored the Confederacy? It was the people of the cloth in the North, the Quakers and the Abolitionists preachers, who were at the forefront of the anti-slavery movement.


Don't forget John Brown, one of the few abolitionists who actually lived around black people. He found support in the Bible for his violent form of abolition. I don't approve of the violence he perpetrated, but I sure do admire the fact that he did what most abolitionists could never bring themselves to do, to invite blacks into their lives and to work alongside them.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You don't even know the traditions and teachings of your own faith.
> 
> Yet you are willing to tell me about mine.
> 
> What arrogance!


I choose not to dwell on fairy tales, rules, and gave up living in fear a long time ago. Care to test me on my knowledge of Judaism? Actually, I prefer the teachings of Kabbalah.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I have never heard of this term. But as you seemed to know right where to find it's meaning, you must have been practicing it for some time now. But I believe in everyone's right to choose how they worship......so you go right ahead and worship in this Relativism manner......From what I've read of you here in these posts, you seem to think of yourself as some kind of God! With all that preaching you do. I think God would look less favorably on someone like you, who idolizes themselves, & tries to lead others astray...Shame.....
  :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: 


lovethelake said:


> What you describe is Relativism, which Pope Benedict has condemned for years. I personally find it sad when people have this self centered form of religion
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

There go KPG's bony little fingers again......trying to figure out how to one up you......
You sure are giving her a run for her money. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: rocky1991


rocky1991 said:


> I choose not to dwell on fairy tales, rules, and gave up living in fear a long time ago. Care to test me on my knowledge of Judaism? Actually, I prefer the teachings of Kabbalah.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: She is a terrible person. She is disrespectful to any KP poster she doesn't like or agree with and Christians and doesn't even understand her own Faith not that she believes or practices it.
> 
> I love all my non-believer, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and Jewish friends both in my life and here on KP. My friends know what they represent and we all respect one another.
> 
> We don't use anger and vulgarity to speak to one another and we acknowledge, understand and respects each's beliefs and traditions.


You are one of the most judgmental people I have met in a long time. I have always attracted bible beaters, and have dealt with them accordingly......ignored. Religion, if you do not question, keeps you isolated, within your own group, and living in fear of judgment. Therefore if anyone challenges your belief system you attack them. Stop telling people how to behave and how to believe, act the way Jesus would want you to. I do not believe He had an unkind judgment of any group of people. I may not believe he is the Messiah, but I believe his teachings are to be followed.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Jokim said:


> No one said they were perfect. Seeking perfection with God's help, yes.
> That is a lifelong issue.


Of course--but it seems a bit odd that the self-proclaimed Christians in the thread are still (one week before Christmas) riveted on themselves and their spiritual development and not on the One who makes it possible. Salvation is a wondrous gift, to be sure--but they can't tear their eyes off the package long enough to even look up at the Giver.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> God gave us a free will to do as we think is right. He did not make us to all have the same thoughts or what would we be like.
> 
> To not agree with others does not mean or make us least of a Chrisitan. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We ask for forgiveness every hour of every day. We are not Christ like yet. That will only happen when we stand before God and he shows us are sins and forgive us.
> 
> ...


Nice, Yarnie. Thanks.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Anyone who preaches hate & Separatism the way you do must be a very unhappy desperate person...... It really is unnatural to go though all the effort you go though to sway people's opinion. And look who you've persuaded......the lunatic fringe. But that's no better than you deserve.



Jokim said:


> Thank you, CB, for posting this excellent and very informative article. Other things that are present in the Old Testament, esp. prominent this time of the year (Advent), are the O Antiphons. They are quotes from the OT that refer to Jesus, the Messiah to come in the NT.; O Wisdom..., O Key of David..., etc.
> Great Job, CB! :thumbup: :thumbup:
> BTW, O bama... is not among them.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> sad


That's what I used to do when I taught school, misspelled words had to be written 10x, I thought you,d appreciated that after all you did correct me.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Hard to see Love in your writings.


Not much love--but there certainly are a lot of "I's".


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That's what I used to do when I taught school, misspelled words had to be written 10x, I thought you,d appreciated that after all you did correct me.


I think it is just sad. I only wrote the right spelling. I didn't know you would flip out.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's not saying much for your class of friends.... No XX........ :lol:


Country Bumpkins said:


> Thank you! XX


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Being a Christian means 24/7/52.


Don't you mean 24/7/365? What you wrote makes you a Christian one day a week.

Being a human is also 24/7.

Edited to admit that I made a mistake above. But why take it to weeks? 52x7 = 364. Do you get to skip a day? Or two in leap years?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> No, it is history! You cannot pick and choose what you want to believe. Either the entire Bible is True or None of it is True!


So how many slaves do you own Joey?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> That's not saying much for your class of friends.... No XX........ :lol:


It makes me sad that you have so many issues. If you are a Christian and so am I aren't we sisters? Why so angry? I love all kinds of people. Black one, white ones, mean ones bad ones sweet ones gruel ones, rich ones, poor ones, homeless. They are all my friends. Have lots of them. All classes. I get along with just about everyone I have ever known.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't have to be perfect. I am forgiven. That is why I am satisfied. Jesus can be your salvation too Susan. Just ask Him to forgive you of your sins like I have. Maybe you can have Joy like me!


I've always wondered how you actually know you're forgiven. I realize you've been told that your entire life, and it's written, but a lot of things are written that you seem not to believe (like the Sermon on the Mount). So how do you *know* it's true? Doesn't such certainty have to wait until you're dead?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Here is a song for your troubled spirit.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCwwcsSH5bI


I don't think it's Susan whose spirit is troubled. She doesn't have to live with contradictions all day.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't forget John Brown, one of the few abolitionists who actually lived around black people. He found support in the Bible for his violent form of abolition. I don't approve of the violence he perpetrated, but I sure do admire the fact that he did what most abolitionists could never bring themselves to do, to invite blacks into their lives and to work alongside them.


Yes, the violence was wrong--but he was no armchair warrior in that he was willing to give up his own life for what he believed was right. Admirable.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jokim said:


> Thank you, CB, for posting this excellent and very informative article. Other things that are present in the Old Testament, esp. prominent this time of the year (Advent), are the O Antiphons. They are quotes from the OT that refer to Jesus, the Messiah to come in the NT.; O Wisdom..., O Key of David..., etc.
> Great Job, CB! :thumbup: :thumbup:
> BTW, O bama... is not among them.


There is not a single thing in what you call the OT, but is more properly called the Hebrew Bible, that refers to Jesus.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I don't notice all that much joy but I do understand that judging others (and finding them wanting as Christians and as citizens and God knows what else) can be a pretty heady experience. I think they tend to mistake that for joy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You must live a very sheltered life. Unfortunately, just ONE example of the "spiritual abuse" that comes from your version of Christianity and is responsible for much suffering in the world is teaching people -- especially young people -- NOT that they made a mistake, but that they ARE a mistake (borrowing John Bradshaw's illuminating phrase) because they are gay. One result of this is a higher suicide rate among teens who are gay than those who are not. NO teen should ever feel suicide is the best "option" for whatever they're facing, but it's especially tragic for gay and lesbian teens because it's such a lie and thus so preventable.
> 
> Another form of spiritual abuse, and the cause of great suffering all over the globe ad something which leads to the death of many each and every day is the teaching that women are in any way inferior. Of course, Christianity is not the only patriarchal religion that teaches that, but Christianity has done -- and continues to do -- its damage globally, and with a vengeance. It's pure, unadulterated misogyny, and it's wrong, and real people suffer every day because the belief has infected our entire culture.
> 
> That's just two of the ways people are threatened and made to cower because of either what is in the Bible, or what people say is in the Bible.


And what's the point of Hell if it's not a threat?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've always wondered how you actually know you're forgiven. I realize you've been told that your entire life, and it's written, but a lot of things are written that you seem not to believe (like the Sermon on the Mount). So how do you *know* it's true? Doesn't such certainty have to wait until you're dead?


When I was 15 I came to the knowledge that I was a sinner. The conviction of the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was lost. I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins. So I became born again. It is very simple. My flesh is still sinful but my spirit is saved from the death of hell. I became a new creation. It is by faith I know I am saved thru Grace and the Blood of Jesus. Why would you say I don't believe the Sermon on the Mount?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've always wondered how you actually know you're forgiven. I realize you've been told that your entire life, and it's written, but a lot of things are written that you seem not to believe (like the Sermon on the Mount). So how do you *know* it's true? Doesn't such certainty have to wait until you're dead?


No idea--but I've also wondered about that state commonly referred to as "being saved". It certainly doesn't appear to be permanent--some Christian talk of falling in and out of grace in the blink of an eye.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There is not a single thing in what you call the OT, but is more properly called the Hebrew Bible, that refers to Jesus.


Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled
44 Prophecies of the Messiah Fulfilled in Jesus Christ

By Mary Fairchild
Ads:

Resurrection of Jesus
Jesus Christ Scriptures
Jesus Pray
Why Jesus Is not Messiah
Jesus Praying to God

"Crucifixion of Jesus Christ"

The crucifixion was prophesied in Scripture 1,000 years before Jesus Christ was born.
Photo: Getty Images	
The books of the Old Testament contain many passages about the Messiahall prophecies Jesus Christ fulfilled. For instance, the crucifixion of Jesus was foretold in Psalm 22:16-18 approximately 1,000 years before Christ was born, long before this method of execution was even practiced.

Some Bible scholars suggest there are more than 300 prophetic Scriptures completed in the life of Jesus.

Although this list is not exhaustive, you'll find 44 messianic predictions clearly fulfilled in Jesus Christ, along with supporting references from the Old and New Testament.
Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled
44 Prophecies Jesus Christ Fulfilled
Prophecies About Jesus	Old Testament
Scripture	New Testament
Fulfillment
1	Messiah would be born of a woman.	Genesis 3:15	Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4
2	Messiah would be born in Bethlehem.	Micah 5:2	Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6
3	Messiah would be born of a virgin.	Isaiah 7:14	Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31
4	Messiah would come from the line of Abraham.	Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18	Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5
5	Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac.	Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12	Luke 3:34
6	Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob.	Numbers 24:17	Matthew 1:2
7	Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah.	Genesis 49:10	Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14
8	Messiah would be heir to King David's throne.	2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7	Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3
9	Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal.	Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44	Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12
10	Messiah would be called Immanuel.	Isaiah 7:14	Matthew 1:23
11	Messiah would spend a season in Egypt.	Hosea 11:1	Matthew 2:14-15
12	A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace.	Jeremiah 31:15	Matthew 2:16-18
13	A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah	Isaiah 40:3-5	Luke 3:3-6
14	Messiah would be rejected by his own people.	Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3	John 1:11
John 7:5
15	Messiah would be a prophet.	Deuteronomy 18:15	Acts 3:20-22
16	Messiah would be preceded by Elijah.	Malachi 4:5-6	Matthew 11:13-14
17	Messiah would be declared the Son of God.	Psalm 2:7	Matthew 3:16-17
18	Messiah would be called a Nazarene.	Isaiah 11:1	Matthew 2:23
19	Messiah would bring light to Galilee.	Isaiah 9:1-2	Matthew 4:13-16
20	Messiah would speak in parables.	Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10	Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35
21	Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted.	Isaiah 61:1-2	Luke 4:18-19
22	Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek.	Psalm 110:4	Hebrews 5:5-6
23	Messiah would be called King.	Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9	Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11
24	Messiah would be praised by little children.	Psalm 8:2	Matthew 21:16
25	Messiah would be betrayed.	Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13	Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-16
26	Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field.	Zechariah 11:12-13	Matthew 27:9-10
27	Messiah would be falsely accused.	Psalm 35:11	Mark 14:57-58
28	Messiah would be silent before his accusers.	Isaiah 53:7	Mark 15:4-5
29	Messiah would be spat upon and struck.	Isaiah 50:6	Matthew 26:67
30	Messiah would be hated without cause.	Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4	John 15:24-25
31	Messiah would be crucified with criminals.	Isaiah 53:12	Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28
32	Messiah would be given vinegar to drink.	Psalm 69:21	Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30
33	Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced.	Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10	John 20:25-27
34	Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed.	Psalm 22:7-8	Luke 23:35
35	Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments.	Psalm 22:18	Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-36
36	Messiah's bones would not be broken.	Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20	John 19:33-36
37	Messiah would be forsaken by God.	Psalm 22:1	Matthew 27:46
38	Messiah would pray for his enemies.	Psalm 109:4	Luke 23:34
39	Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side.	Zechariah 12:10	John 19:34
40	Messiah would be buried with the rich.	Isaiah 53:9	Matthew 27:57-60
41	Messiah would resurrect from the dead.	Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15	Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32
42	Messiah would ascend to heaven.	Psalm 24:7-10	Mark 16:19
Luke 24:51
43	Messiah would be seated at God's right hand.	Psalm 68:18
Psalm 110:1	Mark 16:19
Matthew 22:44
44	Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin.	Isaiah 53:5-12	Romans 5:6-8
Ads

Christ at Christmas;billygraham.org/DownloadTodaybring the meaning of Advent to life w/this beautiful Christmas reading.

How To Remove Age Spotsconsumersguides.comA Weird Trick To Remove Age Spots Without A Doctor

Want To Publish A Book?www.iuniverse.comLearn How To Get Published Today With Our Free Guide To Publishing.
More Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled

Prophetic Books of the Bible
What is the Rapture?
Profile of Jesus Christ

More About Jesus Christ

Names of God and Jesus
Seven Last Words of Jesus
The Genealogy of Jesus

Bible Facts and Lists

Bible Numerology
Hebrews 11 - Heroes of Faith
Biblical Names of God
20 Bible Facts About God

Mary Fairchild

Mary Fairchild
About.com Christianity

Sign up for My Newsletter

Headlines
Forum

Ads

Master of Divinity (MDiv)onlinetheologydegree.lru.eduPrepare to become a ministry leader Luther Rice Seminary. 100% Online

Signs of The End Timeswww.rcg.orgBible Prophecy in the End Times. Know Whats ComingRead Now.

The Bible as a Timelinewww.bibletimeline.netEasily see 6000 years of Bible and World History together!

Advertisement
See More About

biblical prophecy
jesus christ
the birth of jesus
crucifixion
the resurrection

Ads

Save on Knitting Yarncraftsy.com/KnittingUp to 50% off Knitting Yarns. Lion Brand, Cascade & More.

Advent Wreathswww.inhisname.comOver 40 styles of Advent Wreaths for your family's Advent devotions.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm sorry CB if my way of thinking makes you sad....We ALL here have "So many issues." I have no problem getting along with anyone. But I do know how to be polite, and considerate. It's the proper way to be. But you have to admit, that is not going on here. There are some extremists here. And heaven forbid they get a foot hold on this country. Why can't everyone just get along? I don't know. I didn't start this post, but I can not abide the ignorance and false information that is being spread on this site. You and I both know it was started to stir up trouble. Well it has....And I don't know if you remember who started it, but I do......and believe me......she was the dimmest bulb in the box. And I'm surprised that so many, seemingly intelligent people have taken her side. But, It is, what it is.


Country Bumpkins said:


> It makes me sad that you have so many issues. If you are a Christian and so am I aren't we sisters? Why so angry? I love all kinds of people. Black one, white ones, mean ones bad ones sweet ones gruel ones, rich ones, poor ones, homeless. They are all my friends. Have lots of them. All classes. I get along with just about everyone I have ever known.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No idea--but I've also wondered about that state commonly referred to as "being saved". It certainly doesn't appear to be permanent--some Christian talk of falling in and out of grace in the blink of an eye.


What Christian talks of falling out of Grace? Parallel Verses
New International Version
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

New Living Translation
God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can't take credit for this; it is a gift from God.

English Standard Version
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

New American Standard Bible
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

King James Bible
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God's gift--

International Standard Version
For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God

NET Bible
For by grace you are saved through faith, and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For it is by his grace that we have been saved through faith, and this faith was not from you, but it is the gift of God,

GOD'S WORD® Translation
God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God.

Jubilee Bible 2000
For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God,

King James 2000 Bible
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

American King James Version
For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

American Standard Version
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Douay-Rheims Bible
For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, for it is the gift of God;

Darby Bible Translation
For ye are saved by grace, through faith; and this not of yourselves; it is God's gift:

English Revised Version
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Webster's Bible Translation
For by grace are ye saved, through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Weymouth New Testament
For it is by grace that you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves. It is God's gift, and is not on the ground of merit--

World English Bible
for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Young's Literal Translation
for by grace ye are having been saved, through faith, and this not of you -- of God the gift,
Parallel Commentaries
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary

2:1-10 Sin is the death of the soul. A man dead in trespasses and sins has no desire for spiritual pleasures. When we look upon a corpse, it gives an awful feeling. A never-dying spirit is now fled, and has left nothing but the ruins of a man. But if we viewed things aright, we should be far more affected by the thought of a dead soul, a lost, fallen spirit. A state of sin is a state of conformity to this world. Wicked men are slaves to Satan. Satan is the author of that proud, carnal disposition which there is in ungodly men; he rules in the hearts of men. From Scripture it is clear, that whether men have been most prone to sensual or to spiritual wickedness, all men, being naturally children of disobedience, are also by nature children of wrath. What reason have sinners, then, to seek earnestly for that grace which will make them, of children of wrath, children of God and heirs of glory! God's eternal love or good-will toward his creatures, is the fountain whence all his mercies flow to us; and that love of God is great love, and that mercy is rich mercy. And every converted sinner is a saved sinner; delivered from sin and wrath. The grace that saves is the free, undeserved goodness and favour of God; and he saves, not by the works of the law, but through faith in Christ Jesus. Grace in the soul is a new life in the soul. A regenerated sinner becomes a living soul; he lives a life of holiness, being born of God: he lives, being delivered from the guilt of sin, by pardoning and justifying grace. Sinners roll themselves in the dust; sanctified souls sit in heavenly places, are raised above this world, by Christ's grace. The goodness of God in converting and saving sinners heretofore, encourages others in after-time, to hope in his grace and mercy. Our faith, our conversion, and our eternal salvation, are not of works, lest any man should boast. These things are not brought to pass by any thing done by us, therefore all boasting is shut out. All is the free gift of God, and the effect of being quickened by his power. It was his purpose, to which he prepared us, by blessing us with the knowledge of his will, and his Holy Spirit producing such a change in us, that we should glorify God by our good conversation, and perseverance in holiness. None can from Scripture abuse this doctrine, or accuse it of any tendency to evil. All who do so, are without excuse.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 8. - For by grace have ye been saved, through faith. He repeats what he had said parenthetically (ver. 5), in order to open the subject up more fully. On the part of God, salvation is by grace; on the part of man, it is through faith. It does not come to us by an involuntary act, as light falls on our eyes, sounds on our ears, or air enters our lungs. When we are so far enlightened as to understand about it, there must be a personal reception of salvation by us, and that is by faith. Faith at once believes the good news of a free salvation through Christ, and accepts Christ as the Savior. We commit ourselves to him, trust ourselves to him for that salvation of which he is the Author. In the act of thus entrusting ourselves to him for his salvation, we receive the benefit, and are saved. It is not that faith is accepted by God in place of works, but because faith indicates that attitude of men towards Christ in which it pleases God to save them, transferring to him all their guilt, imputing to them all his merit. And that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God. Which of the two things is meant - salvation or faith? The grammatical structure and the analogy of the passage favor the former view, "Your salvation is not of yourselves," though many able men have taken the latter. The apostle is so anxious to bring out the great distinguishing doctrine of grace that he puts it in all lights, affirms it positively, contrasts it with its opposite, and emphasizes it by repetition. It is a gift, not a purchase; a free gift, without money and without price; what would never have been yours, but for the generosity of God. It is very usual in the New Testament thus to represent salvation; cf. our Lord's words to Nicodemus (John 3:16); to the woman of Samaria (John 4:14); St. Paul's "Thanks be to God for his unspeakable gift" (2 Corinthians 9:15); "The gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23); and 1 John 5:11, "God gave unto us eternal life, and the life is in his Son." This usage confirms the view that it is not merely faith, but the whole work and person of Christ which faith receives, that is meant here as the "gift of God."

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

For by grace are ye saved,.... This is to be understood, not of temporal salvation, nor of preservation in Christ, nor of providential salvation in order to calling, and much less of being put in a way of salvation, or only in a salvable state; but of spiritual salvation, and that actual; for salvation was not only resolved upon, contrived and secured in the covenant of grace, for the persons here spoken to, but it was actually obtained and wrought out for them by Christ, and was actually applied unto them by the Spirit; and even as to the full enjoyment of it, they had it in faith and hope; and because of the certainty of it, they are said to be already saved; and besides, were representatively possessed of it in Christ their head: those interested in this salvation, are not all mankind, but particular persons; and such who were by nature children of wrath, and sinners of the Gentiles; and it is a salvation from sin, Satan, the law, its curse and condemnation, and from eternal death, and wrath to come; and includes all the blessings of grace and glory; and is entirely owing to free grace: for by grace is not meant the Gospel, nor gifts of grace, nor grace infused; but the free favour of God, to which salvation in all its branches is ascribed; as election, redemption, justification, pardon, adoption, regeneration, and eternal glory: the Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions read, "by his grace", and so some copies; and it may refer to the grace of all the three Persons; for men are saved by the grace of the Father, who drew the plan of salvation, appointed men to it, made a covenant with his Son, in which it is provided and secured, and sent him into the world to obtain it; and by the grace of the Son, who engaged as a surety to effect it, assumed human nature, obeyed and suffered in it for that purpose, and has procured it; and by the grace of the Spirit, who makes men sensible of their need of it, brings it near, sets it before them, and applies it to them, and gives them faith and hope in it: hence it follows,

through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; salvation is through faith, not as a cause or condition of salvation, or as what adds anything to the blessing itself; but it is the way, or means, or instrument, which God has appointed, for the receiving and enjoying it, that so it might appear to be all of grace; and this faith is not the produce of man's free will and power, but it is the free gift of God; and therefore salvation through it is consistent with salvation by grace; since that itself is of grace, lies entirely in receiving grace and gives all the glory to the grace of God: the sense of this last clause may be, that salvation is not of ourselves; it is not of our desiring nor of our deserving, nor of our performing, but is of the free grace of God: though faith is elsewhere represented as the gift of God, John 6:65 and it is called the special gift of faith, in the Apocrypha:

"And blessed is the eunuch, which with his hands hath wrought no iniquity, nor imagined wicked things against God: for unto him shall be given the "special gift of faith", and an inheritance in the temple of the Lord more acceptable to his mind.'' (Wisdom 3:14)

----- (I asked the following question from a Greek and Hebrew professor:

"In this verse, to what does the word "that" refer to? Adam Clarke, Wesley & company say that it is neuter plural and "Faith" is feminine hence it cannot refer to faith, (Such an admission would destroy their theological system.) However "Grace" is also feminine as is "Salvation".''

His reply was:

"Here you ask a wonderful theological/exegetical question to which I can only give an opinion, and not a definitive answer. The problem is that there is NO precise referent. Grace is feminine. Faith is feminine. And even Salvation (as a noun) is feminine. Yet it must be one of these three at least, and maybe more than one, or all three in conjunction. Since all three come from God and not from man, the latter might seem the more likely. However, it is a tautology to say salvation and grace are "nor of yourselves," and in that case it certainly looks more like the passage is really pointing out that man cannot even take credit for his own act of faith, but that faith was itself created by God and implanted in us that we might believe (i.e. the normal Calvinistic position). In which regard the whole theological issue of "regeneration preceding faith" comes into play. So, that is basically my opinion, though others obviously disagree strenuously, but from an exegetical standpoint, the other positions have to explain away the matter of the tautology.''

Whether you accept the reply or not, it is sufficient to show that the Greek is not as definitive in this verse as some scholars would have you believe. Editor)

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary

8. Forillustrating "the exceeding riches of His grace in kindness." Translate as in Eph 2:5, "Ye are in a saved state."

through faiththe effect of the power of Christ's resurrection (Eph 1:19, 20; Php 3:10) whereby we are "raised together" with Him (Eph 2:6; Col 2:12). Some of the oldest manuscripts read, "through your (literally, 'the') faith." The instrument or mean of salvation on the part of the person saved; Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

and thatnamely, the act of believing, or "faith." "Of yourselves" stands in opposition to, "it is the gift of God" (Php 1:29). "That which I have said, 'through faith,' I do not wish to be understood so as if I excepted faith itself from grace" [Estius]. "God justifies the believing man, not for the worthiness of his belief, but for the worthiness of Him in whom he believes" [Hooker]. The initiation, as well as the increase, of faith, is from the Spirit of God, not only by an external proposal of the word, but by internal illumination in the soul [Pearson]. Yet "faith" cometh by the means which man must avail himself of, namely, "hearing the word of God" (Ro 10:17), and prayer (Lu 11:13), though the blessing is wholly of God (1Co 3:6, 7).

Ephesians 2:8 Additional Commentaries
Context
Alive with Christ
7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Cross References
John 4:10
Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

Acts 15:11
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."

Romans 3:24
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Ephesians 2:5
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved.

Hebrews 6:4
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

1 Peter 1:5
who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

by. See on ver.

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, has quickened us together with Christ, 

Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is 

2 Thessalonians 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence 

through.

Mark 16:16 He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes 

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Your faith has saved you; go in peace.

John 3:14-18,36 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must 

John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, He that hears my word, and believes on 

John 6:27-29,35,40 Labor not for the meat which perishes, but for that meat which endures 

Acts 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which 

Acts 15:7-9 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said to 

Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you shall be 

Romans 3:22-26 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ to 

Romans 4:5,16 But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the 

Romans 10:9,10 That if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and shall 

Galatians 3:14,22 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ

1 John 5:10-12 He that believes on the Son of God has the witness in himself: he 

that.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, 

Ephesians 1:19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, 

Matthew 16:17 And Jesus answered and said to him, Blessed are you, Simon Barjona: 

John 1:12,13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the 

John 6:37,44,65 All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes 

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they 

Acts 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city 

Romans 10:14,17 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and 

Philippians 1:29 For to you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe 

Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also you are risen with him 

James 1:16-18 Do not err, my beloved brothers


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> When I was 15 I came to the knowledge that I was a sinner. The conviction of the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was lost. I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins. So I became born again. It is very simple. My flesh is still sinful but my spirit is saved from the death of hell. I became a new creation. It is by faith I know I am saved thru Grace and the Blood of Jesus. Why would you say I don't believe the Sermon on the Mount?


But how could you go for fifteen years without knowing that you were a sinner? Kids in religious households (which I assume yours was) seem to understand that pretty quickly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I choose not to dwell on fairy tales, rules, and gave up living in fear a long time ago. Care to test me on my knowledge of Judaism? Actually, I prefer the teachings of Kabbalah.


Which pretty much really are fairy tales.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think it is just sad. I only wrote the right spelling. I didn't know you would flip out.


Not flipping out........how id you get flipping out of writing Yahweh 10x?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> How many believe that either the entire Bible is true of none of it is true? Who believes all of it is true? I'd like to see an unofficial poll among all members.


I do not believe all of it is true.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It makes me sad that you have so many issues. If you are a Christian and so am I aren't we sisters? Why so angry? I love all kinds of people. Black one, white ones, mean ones bad ones sweet ones gruel ones, rich ones, poor ones, homeless. They are all my friends. Have lots of them. All classes. I get along with just about everyone I have ever known.


You love "one" black? What about all the others?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What Christian talks of falling out of Grace? Parallel Verses
> New International Version
> For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--
> 
> ...


Well, some Christians probably need to hear this. I occasionally hear folks talk of falling out of a state of grace and having to be rebaptized one or more times--it's never made much sense to me, frankly.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There is not a single thing in what you call the OT, but is more properly called the Hebrew Bible, that refers to Jesus.


I went to a christian bible study group, where they reinterpreted the OT all the time, they called it Prophecy, I called it nonsense.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think it is just sad. I only wrote the right spelling. I didn't know you would flip out.


The right spelling? The right spelling is י-ה-ו-ה .


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> But how could you go for fifteen years without knowing that you were a sinner? Kids in religious households (which I assume yours was) seem to understand that pretty quickly.


I think I was wondering for about a year then came to the knowledge I was not saved. You don't have to be a certain age to come to the knowledge you are lost. My neighbor was 69. He got saved 2 months before he died of cancer. He said he never felt so free and unburdened. My 11 year old gs has been raised in church but thinks that being saved is because we didn't have a wreck when I ran out in front of the truck. But he will know one day when it is time.The Holy Spirit has to draw you .


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course--but it seems a bit odd that the self-proclaimed Christians in the thread are still (one week before Christmas) riveted on themselves and their spiritual development and not on the One who makes it possible. Salvation is a wondrous gift, to be sure--but they can't tear their eyes off the package long enough to even look up at the Giver.


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think you know what one is!
> 
> I am just a sinner saved by Grace. No more, no less.
> 
> 24 hours a day/ 7days a week/ 52 weeks a year, every year.


What about Leap Year? (kidding, of course)


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The right spelling? The right spelling is י-ה-ו-ה .


Thank you. I didn't know that. :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You love "one" black? What about all the others?


No not just one black. Silly.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I think I was wondering for about a year then came to the knowledge I was not saved. You don't have to be a certain age to come to the knowledge you are lost. My neighbor was 69. He got saved 2 months before he died of cancer. He said he never felt so free and unburdened. My 11 year old gs has been raised in church but thinks that being saved is because we didn't have a wreck when I ran out in front of the truck. But he will know one day when it is time.The Holy Spirit has to draw you .


Hmmm...so your baptism (the physical act of sprinkling or dunking) didn't happen until after you were saved?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No not just one black. Silly.


I go to a church with a black pastor and many black members. A lot of black friends.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmmm...so your baptism (the physical act of sprinkling or dunking) didn't happen until after you were saved?


Yes. I was dunked. But it was the burying my dead man. The outward sign I was buried with Christ. Salvation came first with the asking for forgiveness of my sins.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> When I was 15 I came to the knowledge that I was a sinner. The conviction of the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was lost. I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins. So I became born again. It is very simple. My flesh is still sinful but my spirit is saved from the death of hell. I became a new creation. It is by faith I know I am saved thru Grace and the Blood of Jesus. Why would you say I don't believe the Sermon on the Mount?


I have never thought of myself as a sinner. I do not feel lost. I don't believe in Hell. What's wrong with me? I try not to hurt people in any way, I give what I am able, I have not killed anyone. I like lots of people and animals. I love my children and grandchildren. I am friendly (sometimes). I am a human and have faults. I really try not to make value judgments. It happens. but I don't fear the wrath of G-d. I try to be moral, I am nice to people who wish me a "Merry Christmas". I did get upset when a very religious neighbor, tried to convert my 7 year old daughter to becoming a Baptist and taught her some awful things from the bible. Which cost me thousands of dollars and psychotherapy for a 7 year old. I knew that he was misguided, but she had to pay the consequences. I forgave. I still don't care for any organized religion.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled
> 44 Prophecies of the Messiah Fulfilled in Jesus Christ
> 
> By Mary Fairchild
> ...


Totally speculative and misinterpreted.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I don't think you know what one is!
> 
> I am just a sinner saved by Grace. No more, no less.
> 
> 24 hours a day/ 7days a week/ 52 weeks a year, every year.


Then be a sinner, be a victim. Do not take responsibility for your actions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> When I was 15 I came to the knowledge that I was a sinner. The conviction of the Holy Spirit revealed to me I was lost. I asked Jesus to forgive me of my sins. So I became born again. It is very simple. My flesh is still sinful but my spirit is saved from the death of hell. I became a new creation. It is by faith I know I am saved thru Grace and the Blood of Jesus. Why would you say I don't believe the Sermon on the Mount?


What you say about your knowledge could just as easily be said by any psychotic person. As for the Sermon on the Mount, isn't that where Jesus tells you to give to the needy? and to keep your faith to yourself rather than speak it out in public in order to gain praise for it? And where he says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."? Your messages to others often contradict the words of your own Bible.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not a threat, it is a promise! Everyone is destined to hell, except those who have accepted Jesus as his/her personal Saviour, and each has to make a personal choice.
> 
> John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." NKJV


Your religion makes you a victim.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I have never thought of myself as a sinner. I do not feel lost. I don't believe in Hell. What's wrong with me? I try not to hurt people in any way, I give what I am able, I have not killed anyone. I like lots of people and animals. I love my children and grandchildren. I am friendly (sometimes). I am a human and have faults. I really try not to make value judgments. It happens. but I don't fear the wrath of G-d. I try to be moral, I am nice to people who wish me a "Merry Christmas". I did get upset when a very religious neighbor, tried to convert my 7 year old daughter to becoming a Baptist and taught her some awful things from the bible. Which cost me thousands of dollars and psychotherapy for a 7 year old. I knew that he was misguided, but she had to pay the consequences. I forgave. I still don't care for any organized religion.


I know how that goes. When I was six or seven my siblings and I ducked into a booth at the county fair called The Gingerbread House (no kidding), and the woman in charge preached a sermon, prayed over us, then said we couldn't leave until we announced that we were saved. Can't remember how we escaped, but I do recall bursting into tears and my older sister trying to comfort me. Ugh!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

PRAISE THE LORD! HALLELUJAH ! AMEN!

That is a perfect explanation.....Thank you!!!


Poor Purl said:


> What you say about your knowledge could just as easily be said by any psychotic person. As for the Sermon on the Mount, isn't that where Jesus tells you to give to the needy? and to keep your faith to yourself rather than speak it out in public in order to gain praise for it? And where he says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."? Your messages to others often contradict the words of your own Bible.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I have never thought of myself as a sinner. I do not feel lost. I don't believe in Hell. What's wrong with me? I try not to hurt people in any way, I give what I am able, I have not killed anyone. I like lots of people and animals. I love my children and grandchildren. I am friendly (sometimes). I am a human and have faults. I really try not to make value judgments. It happens. but I don't fear the wrath of G-d. I try to be moral, I am nice to people who wish me a "Merry Christmas". I did get upset when a very religious neighbor, tried to convert my 7 year old daughter to becoming a Baptist and taught her some awful things from the bible. Which cost me thousands of dollars and psychotherapy for a 7 year old. I knew that he was misguided, but she had to pay the consequences. I forgave. I still don't care for any organized religion.


I remember you telling that about your daughter. I am sure the neighbor meant well just went about it the wrong way. I have been around some obnoxious Christians myself. People are all the same if they are Christians are not. Everyone messes up. We are not perfect. The only thing is we are forgiven. It is not anything we can do to deserve being good. I am sure you are a loving person with many friends and your family loves you. So does God. He sent Jesus for me and you. We can't be perfect or even good. It is just not in us. We can't keep the 10 commandments. We break one and we break them all. No one has been able to keep them. It was the reason God sent His Son to pay for our sins with His Blood on the Cross. He is the only Perfect One. Without Him we are lost.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Prophecies Jesus Fulfilled
> 44 Prophecies of the Messiah Fulfilled in Jesus Christ
> 
> By Mary Fairchild <snip>
> ...


Yeah, I've seen things like this before. Many of them depend on mistranslations of the Hebrew. And given the will and the time, you could probably use the same material to predict the coming of Kevin Bacon, or you, or anyone else you choose.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I remember you telling that about your daughter. I am sure the neighbor meant well just went about it the wrong way. I have been around some obnoxious Christians myself. People are all the same if they are Christians are not. Everyone messes up. We are not perfect. The only thing is we are forgiven. It is not anything we can do to deserve being good. I am sure you are a loving person with many friends and your family loves you. So does God. He sent Jesus for me and you. We can't be perfect or even good. It is just not in us. We can't keep the 10 commandments. We break one and we break them all. No one has been able to keep them. It was the reason God sent His Son to pay for our sins with His Blood on the Cross. He is the only Perfect One. Without Him we are lost.


I don't believe that. That's my whole point. Not one Jew, believes that Jesus is the Messiah. You can believe that fairy tale, but I do not.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes. I was dunked. But it was the burying my dead man. The outward sign I was buried with Christ. Salvation came first with the asking for forgiveness of my sins.


Interesting! So at this point could you fall out of grace and have to ask for forgiveness again? (forgiveness for being a sinner, not for any specific recent act of sin, I mean)


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Yeah, I've seen things like this before. Many of them depend on mistranslations of the Hebrew. And given the will and the time, you could probably use the same material to predict the coming of Kevin Bacon, or you, or anyone else you choose.


Not one Jew believes in these prophesies.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am not a victim! I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
> 
> I know I will be in Heaven when I die. I do not fear death. I know He is building a mansion for me in Heaven.


Good luck!!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She can read?


 :lol:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What you say about your knowledge could just as easily be said by any psychotic person. As for the Sermon on the Mount, isn't that where Jesus tells you to give to the needy? and to keep your faith to yourself rather than speak it out in public in order to gain praise for it? And where he says "Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you."? Your messages to others often contradict the words of your own Bible.


Please tell me where I contradicted my words from the Bible. I will set myself straight. I do give to the needy. I help anyone that I can. Have done it often. I have taken in many kids . I have told this before. I don't try to get praise for anything. It is my commission to spread the Good News. I can't stop doing that. I agree if I judge you I will be judged. But sin is destruction of the soul. Works do not get you to Heaven . Faith does.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

CountryBumpkins said:


> It makes me sad that you have so many issues. If you are a Christian and so am I aren't we sisters? Why so angry? I love all kinds of people. Black one, white ones, mean ones bad ones sweet ones gruel ones, rich ones, poor ones, homeless. They are all my friends. Have lots of them. All classes. I get along with just about everyone I have ever known.





rocky1991 said:


> You love "one" black? What about all the others?


Not fair to pick on a typing error. I, on the other hand, think that "gruel ones" is a statement of her belief in what should constitute school lunches.

Anyone who gets along with "just about everyone" she's ever known probably doesn't expect much from the people she deals with.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Head Start has provided many children with valuable preschool lessons giving them a HEAD START on learning that helps them all their lives. Haven't you heard of it?


And it works so well that the US standing in education has fallen year after year. What kind of learning did they receive that they are only capable of getting low wage, low skilled jobs? A real success story.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I don't believe that. That's my whole point. Not one Jew, believes that Jesus is the Messiah. You can believe that fairy tale, but I do not.


There are Jews that believe in Jesus as there Messiah. We give to the Christian Jews.http://www.youtube.com/user/JewsForJesus


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Totally speculative and misinterpreted.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Since I'm not a Republican, so I guess I have some empathy. I don't expect anyone to be perfect and think most of us have had some second chances that taught us something important and saved our hides, too. What bothers me is the deeply materialistic society we seem to have made for ourselves. Surely there's something better than materialism to base our lives on. I bet we'd all be better off if we threw away our TVs so we couldn't be so easily brainwashed by the masses of advertising telling us what we have to have to live a socially acceptable life.


Well I like my tv, gives me a lot of good entertainment. I agree there is too much credit card use and it is so easy for someone to get caught up in using it. Credit card companies pray on college kids and get them hooked at a young age. If they don't get the guidance from parents, they can be in real trouble plus having college loans. Just because someone lost their home, doesn't mean they are at fault. There were many jobs lost and if you lost your job and then your home, you don't need to hear from these idiots that you area a bad person and it is all your fault. They are just so critical of others that they don't even know. 
My Grandmother always said, of someone with a long nose, that they must spend a lot of time looking down their nose at others. There are a few on here like Solo and Kpg that must have real looooooooong noses.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not a threat, it is a promise! Everyone is destined to hell, except those who have accepted Jesus as his/her personal Saviour, and each has to make a personal choice.
> 
> John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." NKJV


Jews don't have a hell, so it's neither a threat nor a promise to me.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is not a threat, it is a promise! Everyone is destined to hell, except those who have accepted Jesus as his/her personal Saviour, and each has to make a personal choice.
> 
> John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." NKJV


But what about folks who lived before Christ or simply have never been exposed to Christianity, like the Native Americans before Columbus? Not at all fair to cast them into hell, in my opinion.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> God gave us a free will to do as we think is right. He did not make us to all have the same thoughts or what would we be like.
> 
> To not agree with others does not mean or make us least of a Chrisitan. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We ask for forgiveness every hour of every day. We are not Christ like yet. That will only happen when we stand before God and he shows us are sins and forgive us.
> 
> ...


I often disagree with what you post here, as I'm sure you know. I really like this particular post of yours. I'm deeply involved in getting ready for Christmas and especially glad that this means I'm preparing for what is really a birthday party. On the 25th I'll be saying, at heart, "Happy Birthday, Jesus". I hope your Christmas will be all you wish it to be.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know how that goes. When I was six or seven my siblings and I ducked into a booth at the county fair called The Gingerbread House (no kidding), and the woman in charge preached a sermon, prayed over us, then said we couldn't leave until we announced that we were saved. Can't remember how we escaped, but I do recall bursting into tears and my older sister trying to comfort me. Ugh!


At least she didn't wash you "in the blood of the lamb."


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not fair to pick on a typing error. I, on the other hand, think that "gruel ones" is a statement of her belief in what should constitute school lunches.
> 
> Anyone who gets along with "just about everyone" she's ever known probably doesn't expect much from the people she deals with.


What did I say about a school lunch? Please tell me what you are talking about.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am not a victim! I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
> 
> I know I will be in Heaven when I die. I do not fear death. I know He is building a mansion for me in Heaven.


Once again, an example of logical thinking.

Who's going to decorate your mansion?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Totally speculative and misinterpreted.


How is that?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I often disagree with what you post here, as I'm sure you know. I really like this particular post of yours. I'm deeply involved in getting ready for Christmas and especially glad that this means I'm preparing for what is really a birthday party. On the 25th I'll be saying, at heart, "Happy Birthday, Jesus". I hope your Christmas will be all you wish it to be.


I agree with you, Maid. Yarnie's post sums up the meaning of Christmas perfectly.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> But what about folks who lived before Christ or simply have never been exposed to Christianity, like the Native Americans before Columbus? Not at all fair to cast them into hell, in my opinion.


When we get into deep theologial argument, we are told that Christ died for ALL those who died before He died, ALL people who were alive at when He died, and all who would live after His death. And He didn't die ONLY for the lives on this tiny dust mote called Earth. He died to redeem the entire cosmos. Pretty cool, eh?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> You are reading it all wrong.


LL, she's not reading it wrong. She's twisting it around to fit her agenda.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Please tell me where I contradicted my words from the Bible. I will set myself straight. I do give to the needy. I help anyone that I can. Have done it often. I have taken in many kids . I have told this before. I don't try to get praise for anything. It is my commission to spread the Good News. I can't stop doing that. I agree if I judge you I will be judged. But sin is destruction of the soul. Works do not get you to Heaven . Faith does.


First, you seem to count yourself among those who believe the "needy" should not be helped through public funds. And I haven't seen anyone else who proclaims her belief as loudly or as often as you.

And don't try to convince a Jew that Faith rather than Works will get you into Heaven. In fact, every year on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) we are told that "prayer, charity, and good works" are what atone for sin.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> There are Jews that believe in Jesus as there Messiah. We give to the Christian Jews.http://www.youtube.com/user/JewsForJesus


 Those, perhaps, are people who were born as Jews and perhaps even raised as Jews, but the minute they accepted Christianity they were no longer Jews. Besides which, I know some people who were never Jewish but claim to be Jews for Jesus. I have another name for them: Christians.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> First, you seem to count yourself among those who believe the "needy" should not be helped through public funds. And I haven't seen anyone else who proclaims her belief as loudly or as often as you.
> 
> And don't try to convince a Jew that Faith rather than Works will get you into Heaven. In fact, every year on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) we are told that "prayer, charity, and good works" are what atone for sin.


Where did I say that? Thank you I am happy you see that I proclaim the gospel. I am doing my job then. Believe what you want. It is your right to do so. You are God's chosen so be happy.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks, Susan. It cheers my heart to know someone other than myself understands the depth of Brown's committment to the abolition of slavery.


susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, the violence was wrong--but he was no armchair warrior in that he was willing to give up his own life for what he believed was right. Admirable.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not fair to pick on a typing error. I, on the other hand, think that "gruel ones" is a statement of her belief in what should constitute school lunches.
> 
> Anyone who gets along with "just about everyone" she's ever known probably doesn't expect much from the people she deals with.


Why can they pick on my spelling errors?(Whining)


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


Thank You CB, you are a loving person.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Where did I say that? Thank you I am happy you see that I proclaim the gospel. I am doing my job then. Believe what you want. It is your right to do so. You are God's chosen so be happy.


You don't understand what is meant when Jews are referred to as "God's chosen." It's not meant to make us happy.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Why can they pick on my spelling errors?(Whining)


Ok I am sorry. I just saw it spelled wrong. Are we okay now?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> There are Jews that believe in Jesus as there Messiah. We give to the Christian Jews.http://www.youtube.com/user/JewsForJesus


That is an oxymoron..........a Jew who believes in Jesus is not a Jew, he (she) is a Christian, Therefore not a Jew.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There have been many Jews that have become Christians.


Therefore they are no longer Jews.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You don't understand what is meant when Jews are referred to as "God's chosen." It's not meant to make us happy.


Whatever ,you are the Jew. I just love the Jews so forgive me. I don't know why that would not make you happy.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> When we get into deep theologial argument, we are told that Christ died for ALL those who died before He died, ALL people who were alive at when He died, and all who would live after His death. And He didn't die ONLY for the lives on this tiny dust mote called Earth. He died to redeem the entire cosmos. Pretty cool, eh?


Very. It never crossed my mind that He must be the redeemer of the entire universe and whatever life exists in it, but I suppose that's true. If God created the cosmos then all of it is his domain.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> And it works so well that the US standing in education has fallen year after year. What kind of learning did they receive that they are only capable of getting low wage, low skilled jobs? A real success story.


How can you assume that the us standing in education has fallen because head start isn't working? There you go talking about "those people" again. Stop it, you can't group everyone together. You are saying all those head start kids are working at McDonalds and WalMart. You do such a disservice to so many people.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> That is an oxymoron..........a Jew who believes in Jesus is not a Jew, he (she) is a Christian, Therefore not a Jew.


Ok thank you for setting me straight.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There really is something to blame for how people use their money. We swim in a sea of advertising that tells us what we have to have. Messages are repeated over and over and over again until many people really believe they an'tlive without the latest gadget or shoes or clothes or furniture or, or , or. Advertising is just another form of brainwashing.


You see it all the time with the "IN" toy of the year. After the parents go through all kinds of twisting and bending to purchase the toy, 2 months later the kid looses interest in playing with it. (If it even takes that long.) Yet the parents are still paying for it 6 months later. This applies to all age levels, with the prices of "toys" increasing with the age of the individual. It's a sure fire way to stay in debt.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> How is that?


Not any Jewish scholasr believes that the OT is a prophecy for the NT. Does not compute with the Jewish religion.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> When we get into deep theologial argument, we are told that Christ died for ALL those who died before He died, ALL people who were alive at when He died, and all who would live after His death. And He didn't die ONLY for the lives on this tiny dust mote called Earth. He died to redeem the entire cosmos. Pretty cool, eh?


Pretty convenient, eh?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone that jokes or calls names because I am a Christian is fine with me. You are rejecting Him not me. I only want anyone to know the Love I have . I would not want my worst enemy to go to Hell. It is out of love that I try to tell you of a Savior. It is up to you if you don't want Him. You will find out for yourself one day. I won't be held accountable for not telling you . I pray the Holy Spirit show all of you the way.God is Good and His Mercy endures forever. Merry Christmas.


Happy holidays.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Those, perhaps, are people who were born as Jews and perhaps even raised as Jews, but the minute they accepted Christianity they were no longer Jews. Besides which, I know some people who were never Jewish but claim to be Jews for Jesus. I have another name for them: Christians.[/quote They call themselves Messianic Jews


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Happy holidays.


Thank you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Those, perhaps, are people who were born as Jews and perhaps even raised as Jews, but the minute they accepted Christianity they were no longer Jews. Besides which, I know some people who were never Jewish but claim to be Jews for Jesus. I have another name for them: Christians.


HA HA!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not any Jewish scholar believes that the OT is a prophecy for the NT. Does not compute with the Jewish religion.


Thank you.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ok I am sorry. I just saw it spelled wrong. Are we okay now?


sure, I am a forgiving person.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You see it all the time with the "IN" toy of the year. After the parents go through all kinds of twisting and bending to purchase the toy, 2 months later the kid looses interest in playing with it. (If it even takes that long.) Yet the parents are still paying for it 6 months later. This applies to all age levels, with the prices of "toys" increasing with the age of the individual. It's a sure fire way to stay in debt.


No kidding--my eleven year-old son is clamoring for an Iphone. I told him to start saving--no way I'm shelling out hundreds of dollars for that.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Whatever ,you are the Jew. I just love the Jews so forgive me. I don't know why that would not make you happy.


Why do you love the Jews? I find that a bit strange.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ok thank you for setting me straight.


Someone had to.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> Well I like my tv, gives me a lot of good entertainment. I agree there is too much credit card use and it is so easy for someone to get caught up in using it. Credit card companies pray on college kids and get them hooked at a young age. If they don't get the guidance from parents, they can be in real trouble plus having college loans.Just because someone lost their home, doesn't mean they are at fault. There were many jobs lost and if you lost your job and then your home, you don't need to hear from these idiots that you area a bad person and it is all your fault. They are just so critical of others that they don't even know.
> My Grandmother always said, of someone with a long nose, that they must spend a lot of time looking down their nose at others. There are a few on here like Solo and Kpg that must have real looooooooong noses.


I confess I enjoy my TV. My parents got one in 1952, and my Dad talked endelessly at the commercials to train us to ignore them. This means I was brainwashed to ignore all that nonsense so I can watch my soaps in peace.

I wonder how nonconvenient those long noses are. Probably really a nuisance when one has a cold... :XD: :XD:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > Those, perhaps, are people who were born as Jews and perhaps even raised as Jews, but the minute they accepted Christianity they were no longer Jews. Besides which, I know some people who were never Jewish but claim to be Jews for Jesus. I have another name for them: Christians.[/quote They call themselves Messianic Jews
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I'm sorry CB if my way of thinking makes you sad....We ALL here have "So many issues." I have no problem getting along with anyone. But I do know how to be polite, and considerate. It's the proper way to be. But you have to admit, that is not going on here. There are some extremists here. And heaven forbid they get a foot hold on this country. Why can't everyone just get along? I don't know. I didn't start this post, but I can not abide the ignorance and false information that is being spread on this site. You and I both know it was started to stir up trouble. Well it has....And I don't know if you remember who started it, but I do......and believe me......she was the dimmest bulb in the box. And I'm surprised that so many, seemingly intelligent people have taken her side. But, It is, what it is.


That's quite a bunch of BS Nussa. It is some of your best stuff.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I choose not to dwell on fairy tales, rules, and gave up living in fear a long time ago. Care to test me on my knowledge of Judaism? Actually, I prefer the teachings of Kabbalah.


You already failed the first, simplest test by not knowing why you do what you do. I think I'll further my education of Judaism elsewhere since you know so little about it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> God gave us a free will to do as we think is right. He did not make us to all have the same thoughts or what would we be like.
> 
> To not agree with others does not mean or make us least of a Chrisitan. We all sin and fall short of the glory of God. We ask for forgiveness every hour of every day. We are not Christ like yet. That will only happen when we stand before God and he shows us are sins and forgive us.
> 
> ...


Thank you Yarnie; great message!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> sad


very sad, indeed.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I confess I enjoy my TV. My parents got one in 1952, and my Dad talked endelessly at the commercials to train us to ignore them. This means I was brainwashed to ignore all that nonsense so I can watch my soaps in peace.


I was completely hooked on TV--before I got married. Now my husband and son have taken over the set and I barely watch. Used to love All My Children, though--and it turned into a family addiction (with sister, grandmother, aunt, and one brother all enmeshed) during the Natalie/Janet era.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I believe you will go to Heaven too. I believe everyone does. I believe Hell is on Earth. We will all be forgiven, and enlightened. I don't believe in mansions in Heaven. I believe Heaven will be what you believe it to be. It will be what makes your soul happiest. I don't think I've ever feared death......because I don't see it as the end of existence. It's a start of a better existence.


joeysomma said:


> I am not a victim! I am saved by the blood of Jesus Christ.
> 
> I know I will be in Heaven when I die. I do not fear death. I know He is building a mansion for me in Heaven.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

What do you mean it's a bunch of BS. I was being sincere.....please explain to me why you said what you just said about me???? Because if you can't, your remark holds no merit...


soloweygirl said:


> That's quite a bunch of BS Nussa. It is some of your best stuff.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh my.........KPG.....you are just bound and determined to shove that foot of yours all the way down your throat aren't you?


knitpresentgifts said:


> You already failed the first, simplest test by not knowing why you do what you do. I think I'll further my education of Judaism elsewhere since you know so little about it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I believe you will go to Heaven too. I believe everyone does. I believe Hell is on Earth. We will all be forgiven, and enlightened. I don't believe in mansions in Heaven. I believe Heaven will be what you believe it to be. It will be what makes your soul happiest. I don't think I've ever feared death......because I don't see it as the end of existence. It's a start of a better existence.


Even though I don't believe it, I've always liked the Muslim version of Heaven. As I understand it, it's pretty much like a rich person's earth minus all the strife and suffering: enormous shops (with everything free, of course), beautiful beaches, great food--nothing to do but lounge around and enjoy.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What did I say about a school lunch? Please tell me what you are talking about.


She making fun of a typo. You typed gruel instead of cruel.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> She making fun of a typo. You typed gruel instead of cruel.


Actually that's a pretty funny typo. Freudian slip? (no offense, CB)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> You are one of the most judgmental people I have met in a long time.


You've never met me, and I am not judgmental.



rocky1991 said:


> I have always attracted bible beaters, and have dealt with them accordingly......ignored.


I'm not a _Bible_ beater and you never ignore my posts. You respond nearly to every single one I write. I've ignored most of yours accordingly.



rocky1991 said:


> Religion, if you do not question, keeps you isolated, within your own group, and living in fear of judgment. Therefore if anyone challenges your belief system you attack them. Stop telling people how to behave and how to believe, act the way Jesus would want you to.


I question lots yet I do not live in fear of your judgment or anyone else's as I've written prior. I have Jews, Buddhists, Hinduists, Christians and non-believers in my life. I haven't told you or others how to believe, yet you slam all Christians, non-Libs and non-Jews. Jesus was a Jew and yet you don't even follow his teachings and call his words "fairy tales."

Sounds to me it is you who can only deal with and live with 'those of your beliefs and group.' Is that what Jesus would do?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What did I say about a school lunch? Please tell me what you are talking about.


That was a joke. You typed "gruel" when you clearly meant "cruel," but I treated it as gruel, which is what the kids in _Oliver_ were fed. It would make a very cheap but dull school lunch.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's if you believe the Bible word for word. Remember? It was written by men, and they chose the words to use, not God. My mansion will be a little log cabin by a beautiful lake, with wild flowers all around it, where I can sit and enjoy the beauty of nature to my hearts content. Is it ok if my mansion in Heaven is a cabin?


joeysomma said:


> John 14:1-3 Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Fathers house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. " NKJV


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> How can you assume that the us standing in education has fallen because head start isn't working? There you go talking about "those people" again. Stop it, you can't group everyone together. You are saying all those head start kids are working at McDonalds and WalMart. You do such a disservice to so many people.


It's OK for you to group them together, but not anyone else. I was talking about the program and what it has NOT done for those that were enrolled in it. You're the one that always brings up "those people". It's you that has the problem and are doing "those people' a disservice by not wanting anything better for them than what the government deems appropriate. I have said that I think they can do better, you say they can do no more than what they have done. Who is actually doing the disservice here? It's you and your kind.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've always wondered how you actually know you're forgiven. I realize you've been told that your entire life, and it's written, but a lot of things are written that you seem not to believe (like the Sermon on the Mount). So how do you *know* it's true? Doesn't such certainty have to wait until you're dead?


We know by our Faith. Do you have any Faith?

What you don't know, is we are *not * told that our entire lives; where do you get these ridiculous ideas?

CB and Christians believe in the Sermon on the Mount; another of your ridiculous thoughts.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There is not a single thing in what you call the OT, but is more properly called the Hebrew Bible, that refers to Jesus.


You are completely and 100% wrong. I suggest you stick to your Faith and leave the Christian one to Christians or those who understand and seek the Truth.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You already failed the first, simplest test by not knowing why you do what you do. I think I'll further my education of Judaism elsewhere since you know so little about it.


I do what I do because I learned it at home.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl, I'm still waiting for you to answer my post.......you know, This one: 
I'm sorry CB if my way of thinking makes you sad....We ALL here have "So many issues." I have no problem getting along with anyone. But I do know how to be polite, and considerate. It's the proper way to be. But you have to admit, that is not going on here. There are some extremists here. And heaven forbid they get a foot hold on this country. Why can't everyone just get along? I don't know. I didn't start this post, but I can not abide the ignorance and false information that is being spread on this site. You and I both know it was started to stir up trouble. Well it has....And I don't know if you remember who started it, but I do......and believe me......she was the dimmest bulb in the box. And I'm surprised that so many, seemingly intelligent people have taken her side. But, It is, what it is.

That's quite a bunch of BS Nussa. It is some of your best stuff.

I asked you to explain what you meant by that. Are you going to answer, or back peddle? Come on.......you called it BS. Explain the BS part to me.... :?:



soloweygirl said:


> It's OK for you to group them together, but not anyone else. I was talking about the program and what it has NOT done for those that were enrolled in it. You're the one that always brings up "those people". It's you that has the problem and are doing "those people' a disservice by not wanting anything better for them than what the government deems appropriate. I have said that I think they can do better, you say they can do no more than what they have done. Who is actually doing the disservice here? It's you and your kind.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I thought being a Jew was both heritage and religion?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And what's the point of Hell if it's not a threat?


Are you threatened by Sheol?

Hell isn't a threat, it is eternal damnation for those who are not saved. Do you qualify; if so, it serves your purpose of fear, correct?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Being Jewish is my heritage. Historically I am Jewish, I don't follow the religion. I don't believe in organized religion. I shall always be a Jew.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> That's if you believe the Bible word for word. Remember? It was written by men, and they chose the words to use, not God. My mansion will be a little log cabin by a beautiful lake, with wild flowers all around it, where I can sit and enjoy the beauty of nature to my hearts content. Is it ok if my mansion in Heaven is a cabin?


I'm not one for nature, but one thing I'd enjoy would be the definitive answers to all those pesky historical questions: was Oswald really acting alone? Did any of the Romanovs survive? What happened to Amelia Earhart?

It's pleasant, though, to be able to strike two of those questions off the list: was Anna Anderson really Anastasia Romanov? (DNA tests now say no), and how did the Egyptians get those massive stone blocks that make up the pyramids into place? (inclines, ropes, and tens of thousands of slaves)


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh, but of course KPG is omnipotent, and knows all......she labels everyone by her standards. And her standards really suck. 
KPG, I think you need to go join a club for the self centered. Boy that would be something to see. All those self centered people in one room trying to get all the others to do things their way......they'd end up killing each other.....lol. Because you know......there can only be one God......And KPG has already tried to claim that spot....


rocky1991 said:


> I do what I do because I learned it at home.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I love history.......and yes, if given the opportunity to get answers to all the questions I've had in life, I may not get to spend much time at that cabin....lol.


susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not one for nature, but one thing I'd enjoy would be the definitive answers to all those pesky historical questions: was Oswald really acting alone? Did any of the Romanovs survive? What happened to Amelia Earhart?
> 
> It's pleasant, though, to be able to strike two of those questions off the list: was Anna Anderson really Anastasia Romanov? (DNA tests now say no), and how did the Egyptians get those massive stone blocks that make up the pyramids into place? (inclines, ropes, and tens of thousands of slaves)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I went to a christian bible study group, where they reinterpreted the OT all the time, they called it Prophecy, I called it nonsense.


So you are _G-d_? I know you are a Jew, but don't believe in fairy tales. So, how do you know what is the Truth and what is correctly interpreted? The original text was in Hebrew, but you don't believe that either. Now you say you don't believe the translations from the Hebrew.

Judaism and the translations from the original Hebrew and languages of the _Bible_ are a 'living' faith and language constantly changing its beliefs, translations and teachings, yet you know better and what is absolute.

I'd like to meet _God_ face-to-face here on earth. When are you available to talk nonsense?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Whatever ,you are the Jew. I just love the Jews so forgive me. I don't know why that would not make you happy.


The word "love" doesn't mean the same thing to you that it does to me. If I were to "love" everyone, or even all Jews, that "love" would necessarily be spread so thin it would be meaningless.

The legend is that God offered the Torah (first five books of the Bible) to various nations, and they all turned it down because they didn't like some of the laws in it: not eating pork, not coveting your neighbor's wife, not stealing, the list goes on. Finally, after all this frustration, God went to a nation so small that he had ignored them until now. But to make sure he could finally stop asking nations, before he offered the Torah to the Hebrews, he lifted up a mountain and held it over their heads. They chose to accept it rather than be buried under the mountain, as any rational people would. And that's how God made his choice. Not one to instill happiness in the chosen.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are completely and 100% wrong. I suggest you stick to your Faith and leave the Christian one to Christians or those who understand and seek the Truth.


Wow. This sort of remark borders on antisemitism. You might want to consider pulling back, KPG.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We know by our Faith. Do you have any Faith?
> 
> What you don't know, is we are *not * told that our entire lives; where do you get these ridiculous ideas?
> 
> CB and Christians believe in the Sermon on the Mount; another of your ridiculous thoughts.


If they're so ridiculous, why waste your precious time on them?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> What do you mean it's a bunch of BS. I was being sincere.....please explain to me why you said what you just said about me???? Because if you can't, your remark holds no merit...


If the proper way to be is being polite and considerate, then why not do it all the time and apply it to everyone? Why make excuses for your behavior and what you say in your posts? It shouldn't matter who started it - that is grade school reasoning. You have repeatedly not been either. That would make it insincere. Therefore, I find your post a bunch of BS.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I have never thought of myself as a sinner. I do not feel lost. I don't believe in Hell. What's wrong with me? I try not to hurt people in any way ...


There is so much wrong, in these your few words, I give up. You don't want answers you want to brag and put yourself on a pedestal and tell others off.

May God bless you even though you don't need Him (according to you.)

I have forgiven your vulgar words to me, but _God_ won't forgive you for your eternal life until you ask Him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Not any Jewish scholasr believes that the OT is a prophecy for the NT. Does not compute with the Jewish religion.


Not any Jewish scholar calls it the Old Testament. That's a label that implies it was superseded by the new one.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Totally speculative and misinterpreted.


Prove it. You have only misinterpreted.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I guess you don't realize it, so I'll tell you.......That rant you just went on made no sense at all.....I think you should stick to whatever religion you believe in and leave the others alone......your stupidity is showing....


knitpresentgifts said:


> So you are _G-d_? I know you are a Jew, but don't believe in fairy tales. So, how do you know what is the Truth and what is correctly interpreted? The original text was in Hebrew, but you don't believe that either. Now you say you don't believe the translations from the Hebrew.
> 
> Judaism and the translations from the original Hebrew and languages of the _Bible_ are a 'living' faith and language constantly changing its beliefs, translations and teachings, yet you know better and what is absolute.
> 
> I'd like to meet _God_ face-to-face here on earth. When are you available to talk nonsense?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> They call themselves Messianic Jews


They can call themselves what they want, but they're not Jews. I can call myself Scarlett Johannsen, but that doesn't make it so.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Why do you love the Jews? I find that a bit strange.


What she means by "love" is not what you or I mean by it. I certainly don't _love_ people I've never met (except maybe George Clooney). But if this is how all Christians are, then KPG must love you to death.

So to speak.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I love history.......and yes, if given the opportunity to get answers to all the questions I've had in life, I may not get to spend much time at that cabin....lol.


Same here...there'd better be a massive library situated between Joey's mansions or I won't stay.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You already failed the first, simplest test by not knowing why you do what you do. I think I'll further my education of Judaism elsewhere since you know so little about it.


How does she not know why she does what she does?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Since the thread is about Obamacare, I thought I'd share another good example of how those "canceled insurance policies" are working:



> *Obamacare's Unlikely Winners*
> Sue Spanke of Missoula, Mont., was highly displeased this fall when she learned her health insurance had been canceled.
> 
> "I got so mad that I went to my phone and started calling all the political people and giving them what for," Spanke told The Billings Gazette. That was before she learned she was eligible for a policy at a much lower cost.
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Since the thread is about Obamacare, I thought I'd share another good example of how those "canceled insurance policies" are working:


Change of subject...much appreciated, Knitry. 
:thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

LOL......If she finds out we like it, she'll make sure there isn't a book in Heaven......LOL.


susanmos2000 said:


> Same here...there'd better be a massive library situated between Joey's mansions or I won't stay.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> At least she didn't wash you "in the blood of the lamb."


You are sick. Don't you observe or believe in the Passover or is that a joke to you as well?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There have been many Jews that have become Christians.


 :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Nussa said:


> LOL......If she finds out we like it, she'll make sure there isn't a book in Heaven......LOL.


Hmm...a library with empty shelves. The inner ring of hell.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I thought being a Jew was both heritage and religion?


It is both. If a person was born to a Jewish mother, then Jewish law says that person is Jewish.* But if that person renounces Judaism and/or its beliefs (one of which is that there's only one God, no children, no spirits or ghosts), then s/he's cut her/himself off from the Jewish people and is no longer Jewish.

* A joke from Ben Stiller, whose mother is not Jewish: 
"Jewish law tells me I'm not Jewish, but my nose tells me I am."


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> That is an oxymoron..........a Jew who believes in Jesus is not a Jew, he (she) is a Christian, Therefore not a Jew.


A Jew who believes in Jesus, is a person who believes Jesus walked the earth as He did. No one is a Christian because they believe in Jesus. That is your fairy tale and lack of true knowledge.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That's great! I guess it just takes time and patients go get things sorted out.


Knitry said:


> Since the thread is about Obamacare, I thought I'd share another good example of how those "canceled insurance policies" are working:


 :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I was completely hooked on TV--before I got married. Now my husband and son have taken over the set and I barely watch. Used to love All My Children, though--and it turned into a family addiction (with sister, grandmother, aunt, and one brother all enmeshed) during the Natalie/Janet era.


I live with two (at least temporarily, I hope) men who never watch TV - DS, who is 39, used to watch Mr. Rogers as a child, but nothing since then. And I only watch what I can download onto my computer.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Even though I don't believe it, I've always liked the Muslim version of Heaven. As I understand it, it's pretty much like a rich person's earth minus all the strife and suffering: enormous shops (with everything free, of course), beautiful beaches, great food--nothing to do but lounge around and enjoy.


Don't forget all those virgins.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That's quite a bunch of BS Nussa. It is some of your best stuff.


 :thumbup: :XD: OMG . I _have_ to force myself to read her posts again; I think I'm missing some good laughs!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I thought being a Jew was both heritage and religion?


I thought the same. But G-d will set us straight, I'm sure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are completely and 100% wrong. I suggest you stick to your Faith and leave the Christian one to Christians or those who understand and seek the Truth.


Then tell them not to mess around with the Jewish Bible.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh for HEAVENS SAKE KPG.........You ARE an Oxymoron! Let it go already....Do you have some kind of condition that causes you to pick up a subject and not be able to let go of it? This is not a contest to see who knows more about the Jewish religion......It's just an opinion on your part, For the love of God, you aren't even Jewish. You're like a comma patient trying to teach someone how to swim.....sink already and let it go!


knitpresentgifts said:


> A Jew who believes in Jesus, is a person who believes Jesus walked the earth as He did. No one is a Christian because they believe in Jesus. That is your fairy tale and lack of true knowledge.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Are you threatened by Sheol?
> 
> Hell isn't a threat, it is eternal damnation for those who are not saved. Do you qualify; if so, it serves your purpose of fear, correct?


And that's not a threat?

Sheol is simply a shadowy place where the dead are supposed to hang around waiting for the World to Come. It doesn't scare me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not one for nature, but one thing I'd enjoy would be the definitive answers to all those pesky historical questions: was Oswald really acting alone? Did any of the Romanovs survive? What happened to Amelia Earhart?
> 
> It's pleasant, though, to be able to strike two of those questions off the list: was Anna Anderson really Anastasia Romanov? (DNA tests now say no), and how did the Egyptians get those massive stone blocks that make up the pyramids into place? (inclines, ropes, and tens of thousands of slaves)


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You be go ahead and read it, then maybe soloweygirl can explain to you how it is BS. Because as usual, her big mouth can never back up what she says. But then in her case ignorance is bliss....


knitpresentgifts said:


> :thumbup: :XD: OMG . I _have_ to force myself to read her posts again; I think I'm missing some good laughs!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I assume that's purgatory?

Sheol is simply a shadowy place where the dead are supposed to hang around waiting for the World to Come. It doesn't scare me.[/quote]


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> So you are _G-d_? I know you are a Jew, but don't believe in fairy tales. So, how do you know what is the Truth and what is correctly interpreted? The original text was in Hebrew, but you don't believe that either. Now you say you don't believe the translations from the Hebrew.
> 
> Judaism and the translations from the original Hebrew and languages of the _Bible_ are a 'living' faith and language constantly changing its beliefs, translations and teachings, yet you know better and what is absolute.
> 
> I'd like to meet _God_ face-to-face here on earth. When are you available to talk nonsense?


Boy, you must really, really love her.

And your middle paragraph is 100% wrong.

One of the truly interesting things about Judaism - and I've heard this said by Orthodox rabbis - is that you can be a perfectly good Jew without believing in God. Faith has nothing to do with it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

He sure as H _ _ _ will, if you get my meaning... :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


knitpresentgifts said:


> I thought the same. But G-d will set us straight, I'm sure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow. This sort of remark borders on antisemitism. You might want to consider pulling back, KPG.


I don't think she's antisemitic; I think she's simply dumb and doesn't know how to argue intelligently. So she simply says other people are all wrong and have no right to speak.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I do what I do because I learned it at home.


Fine by me in your mindless actions. I prefer to question and understand that which I do rather than just mimic others blindly.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

ANOTHER good report:



> *Getting an earful on Obamacare*
> . Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-3rd (Indiana), had asked for input on the Affordable Care Act during an open house Monday at his office in the E. Ross Adair Federal Building, and he got it
> 
> Lee Albright, owner of the south-side meat market carrying his last name, doesnt want the Affordable Care Act repealed, which Stutzman and the Republican-controlled House have voted to do numerous times. Albright told his congressman that his monthly payment for family health coverage will drop from $3,800 to $1,700 by enrolling in a plan offered through the much-maligned law.
> ...


Kewl, huh?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If they're so ridiculous, why waste your precious time on them?


I don't; you do. They are your ideas, not mine, or those of Christians.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are sick. Don't you observe or believe in the Passover or is that a joke to you as well?


What on earth are you talking about?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How does she not know why she does what she does?


I don't know; ask her. Rocky said she doesn't know why she did as she did, but was taught that way at home.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then tell them not to mess around with the Jewish Bible.


"We don't." We study and believe in the translated Testaments.

The _Bible_ is the Word of God. Jesus was a Jew. Therefore, Christians believe in the translated Jewish Bible as you call it along with the rest of the _Bible_ that I believe you ignore.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I assume that's purgatory?
> 
> Sheol is simply a shadowy place where the dead are supposed to hang around waiting for the World to Come. It doesn't scare me.


[/quote]
Not exactly. There's no punishment going on. Maybe it's more like limbo (though without the dancing).

That last was a joke, for the humor-challenged.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't; you do. They are your ideas, not mine, or those of Christians.


But you're the one who called them ridiculous, not me. I'm not wasting my time.

Can you follow reasoning that goes further than one sentence?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, I have never heard of this term. But as you seemed to know right where to find it's meaning, you must have been practicing it for some time now. But I believe in everyone's right to choose how they worship......so you go right ahead and worship in this Relativism manner......From what I've read of you here in these posts, you seem to think of yourself as some kind of God! With all that preaching you do. I think God would look less favorably on someone like you, who idolizes themselves, & tries to lead others astray...Shame.....
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Well there you go again. I do not believe in Relativism, it goes totally against my belief system. I have never thought myself as a god, that is what Obamacultists think about Obama. I do not idolize anyone or anything, that is for the godless to do. I do not lead people, I am trying to live my life according to the doctrine of my Church. I enjoy the company of others that are also on a similar path. Nothing more nothing less.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't know; ask her. Rocky said *she doesn't know why she did as she did,* but was taught that way at home.


See the words I put in boldface? Rocky didn't say them; you did.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And that's not a threat?
> 
> Sheol is simply a shadowy place where the dead are supposed to hang around waiting for the World to Come. It doesn't scare me.


Hell is not a threat for a believer/saved Christian so, therefore, death has no sting or associated fear.

At least there is a term limit <12 months, I believe to you in your afterlife in Sheol. So no cause for concern I guess for you.

Christians believe in an eternal afterlife, either in Heaven or Hell. I understand Jews do not concern themselves with an afterlife.

That is your prerogative but you do not properly understand the Christian Faith (or at least you didn't properly explain it in your posts).


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not exactly. There's no punishment going on. Maybe it's more like limbo (though without the dancing).
> 
> That last was a joke, for the humor-challenged.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> "We don't." We study and believe in the translated Testaments.
> 
> The _Bible_ is the Word of God. Jesus was a Jew. Therefore, Christians believe in the translated Jewish Bible as you call it along with the rest of the _Bible_ that I believe you ignore.


Then all those proofs that the Jewish Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah are based on translations? Because if they're based on the Hebrew, they're (1) inaccurate, and (2) messing around with the Jewish Bible.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think she's antisemitic; I think she's simply dumb and doesn't know how to argue intelligently. So she simply says other people are all wrong and have no right to speak.


I distrust those who tell others what to do because they are too dumb to know any better.

Too bad none of the Libs/Progs on this thread can discuss anything intelligently for they know not what they do.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I will ask again.....WHAT RELIGION ARE YOU! Or do you just make it a habit of going around defining what each religion should be?


knitpresentgifts said:


> Hell is not a threat for a believer/saved Christian so, therefore, death has no sting or associated fear.
> 
> At least there is a term limit <12 months, I believe to you in your afterlife in Sheol. So no cause for concern I guess for you.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What on earth are you talking about?


You made a joke about the "blood of the lamb" but apparently you are too stupid to remember your own poor taste, idiocy and Jewish history.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

So in your words, we should believe absolutely nothing you say, because all you've done since some idiot started this topic is literally tell others what to do, because you are to dumb to know better?
Well, it's about time you got something right...


knitpresentgifts said:


> I distrust those who tell others what to do because they are too dumb to know any better.
> 
> Too bad none of the Libs/Progs on this thread can discuss anything intelligently for they know not what they do.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> <snip> I have never thought myself as a god, that is what Obamacultists think about Obama. <snip>


Then you have a lot of nerve referring to anyone here as an "Obamacultist." You have no idea what the left thinks of him, but we certainly don't think of him as a god. Who made up that word, anyway?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh boy......it's WIGGLE-WIGGLE time again......


knitpresentgifts said:


> You made a joke about the "blood of the lamb" but apparently you are too stupid to remember your own poor taste, idiocy and Jewish history.


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But you're the one who called them ridiculous, not me. I'm not wasting my time.
> 
> Can you follow reasoning that goes further than one sentence?


I called YOUR thoughts ridiculous because they ARE. Joke is and on you! :-D I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic.

Nice try attempting to force your ideas into someone else's head. Too bad you failed.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

A Republicultist on this topic I guess....... :XD:


Poor Purl said:


> Then you have a lot of nerve referring to anyone here as an "Obamacultist." You have no idea what the left thinks of him, but we certainly don't think of him as a god. Who made up that word, anyway?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What on earth are you talking about?


What's your problem? Cannot follow the logic further than a page or two?

I'll leave you alone so as not to confuse you.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Here it comes.......Snicker-snicker.... :XD: She's starting to fall apart.


knitpresentgifts said:


> I called YOUR thoughts ridiculous because they ARE. Joke is and on you! :-D I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic.
> 
> Nice try attempting to force your ideas into someone else's head. Too bad you failed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl wrote:
How does she not know why she does what she does?

KPG wrote:
I don't know; ask her. Rocky said *she doesn't know why she did as she did,* but was taught that way at home.



Poor Purl said:


> See the words I put in boldface? Rocky didn't say them; you did.


See these words I changed to boldface? They are Rocky's _exact_ words;



rocky1991 said:


> *I do what I do because I learned it at home.*


Happy now? Can you follow?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> LL, she's not reading it wrong. She's twisting it around to fit her agenda.


Same old thing. Only dysfunctional people do such things.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Hell is not a threat for a believer/saved Christian so, therefore, death has no sting or associated fear.
> 
> At least there is a term limit <12 months, I believe to you in your afterlife in Sheol. So no cause for concern I guess for you.
> 
> ...


There's that certainty you Christians have that you're all forgiven and going to heaven. Is there not one of you who thinks maybe there's more to it than that?

I haven't heard Sheol mentioned since high school, and that was more than 50 years ago, so no, there's no cause for concern.

As for what Christians believe, there's more than one Christian faith, and even you guys don't know all there is to know about all of them. What I do know is that Paul said the laws have changed; you don't have to stick to what's laid out in the Jewish Bible; the coming of Jesus has erased the need for all those foolish requirements and restrictions.

In other words, God was only fooling before, or he changed his mind - neither of which is credible to me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then all those proofs that the Jewish Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus as the Messiah are based on translations? Because if they're based on the Hebrew, they're (1) inaccurate, and (2) messing around with the Jewish Bible.


Don't know what your obsession with the Jewish Bible is or why you think the Christians have that same obsession because we don't. The _Bible_ is a whole lot more than the first five or so chapters that *you* call the Jewish Bible.

BTW: Your first sentence is not comprehensible since it isn't even a sentence.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I distrust those who tell others what to do because they are too dumb to know any better.
> 
> Too bad none of the Libs/Progs on this thread can discuss anything intelligently for they know not what they do.


Your first sentence is irrelevant to the posts it purports to respond to. Your second sentence is just another instance of pot calling kettle black.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> "We don't." We study and believe in the translated Testaments.
> 
> The _Bible_ is the Word of God. Jesus was a Jew. Therefore, Christians believe in the translated Jewish Bible as you call it along with the rest of the _Bible_ that I believe you ignore.


Hmm...you forgot to italicize the word 'God' there, KPG.

(1)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's that certainty you Christians have that you're all forgiven and going to heaven. Is there not one of you who thinks maybe there's more to it than that?
> 
> I haven't heard Sheol mentioned since high school, and that was more than 50 years ago, so no, there's no cause for concern.
> 
> ...


You need help; you didn't comprehend anything I wrote. God Bless You.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You need help; you didn't comprehend anything I wrote. God Bless You.


(2)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You made a joke about the "blood of the lamb" but apparently you are too stupid to remember your own poor taste, idiocy and Jewish history.


Aha. There used to be a comedy duo called, I believe, Wayne and Shuster, who did a routine involving an old Jewish man (Shuster) wanting to convert to Christianity. The Christian (Wayne, a real Christian) keeps asking him "Have you been washed in the blood of the lamb?" but the Jew keeps missing what he says. Finally, the Christian asks it very slowly, and the Jew says "Ooh, that sounds disgusting." It may be poor taste, but it wasn't exclusively mine, and it always got a big laugh from whoever was in the audience.

In the good old days it was possible to joke about religion without getting killed - or even just called names.

I guess when it comes to stupidity, it takes one to know one. As well for poor taste and idiocy. If by "history" you're referring to the paschal lamb sacrifice, I remember it, in the sense of having heard of it many times. I have no problem joking about it.

And so you don't forget what you yourself said, I'm going to copy and paste your words: " apparently you are too stupid to remember your own poor taste, idiocy and Jewish history." If you knew anything about psychology, you would know that memory and stupidity are very different things.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I called YOUR thoughts ridiculous because they ARE. Joke is and on you! :-D I'm sorry you couldn't follow the logic.
> 
> Nice try attempting to force your ideas into someone else's head. Too bad you failed.


Oh, I followed the "logic." You called my ideas ridiculous, but continued the message.

knitpresentgifts wrote:
We know by our Faith. Do you have any Faith?

What you don't know, is we are not told that our entire lives; where do you get these ridiculous ideas?

CB and Christians believe in the Sermon on the Mount; another of your ridiculous thoughts.

Poor Purl wrote:
If they're so ridiculous, why waste your precious time on them?

Your answer: I don't; you do. They are your ideas, not mine, or those of Christians.

If I don't think they're ridiculous, my time thinking about them isn't wasted. However, if my ideas are ridiculous _to you_, why would _you_ waste time on them?

Oh, well, maybe I should have left breadcrumbs for you to follow, bc I know you're going to misconstrue this yet again.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Then you have a lot of nerve referring to anyone here as an "Obamacultist." You have no idea what the left thinks of him, but we certainly don't think of him as a god. Who made up that word, anyway?


I did months ago.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What's your problem? Cannot follow the logic further than a page or two?
> 
> I'll leave you alone so as not to confuse you.


Thank you. I will consider that your Christmas gift to me. I can follow what you call "the logic," but all those twists and turns exhaust me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> How does she not know why she does what she does?
> 
> KPG wrote:
> ...


Isn't that a perfectly good reason for doing things that way? She absolutely knows why she does what she does.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, I followed the "logic." You called my ideas ridiculous, but continued the message.
> 
> knitpresentgifts wrote:
> We know by our Faith. Do you have any Faith?
> ...


No use, Purl--the flock of little birdies fluttering madly about her head would just gobble them up.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Firs to all you don't ask questions, you dictate, and you haven't understood a thing since you came to this topic. But that gos pretty well with your mindless chatter.....
But I will credit you with one thing.....You get the medal for spewing the most BS on this post.....Did you learn it while you were growing up, or does it come naturally???


knitpresentgifts said:


> Fine by me in your mindless actions. I prefer to question and understand that which I do rather than just mimic others blindly.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I knew it was some major idiot....


lovethelake said:


> I did months ago.


 :roll:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't know what your obsession with the Jewish Bible is or why you think the Christians have that same obsession because we don't. The _Bible_ is a whole lot more than the first five or so chapters that *you* call the Jewish Bible.
> 
> BTW: Your first sentence is not comprehensible since it isn't even a sentence.


Because it begins with "then"? It was just following what you said; literate people may refer to it as style.

What you think is an "obsession" with the Jewish Bible is simply my repeating the phrase so that I don't use the insulting term "Old Testament." The first five books are called the Torah; the Jewish Bible consists of much more, which I won't list (it can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible#The_Hebrew_Bible )

Did I not make that clear? Sorry. I thought you scholars knew the difference between the Torah and the Hebrew Bible.

BTW, if you look at the quote box, you will note that your first sentence doesn't even have a subject (as in subject and predicate) and is therefore just a fragment. If you don't know grammar, please don't complain about mine.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Your first sentence is irrelevant to the posts it purports to respond to. Your second sentence is just another instance of pot calling kettle black.


The first sentence is a spoof on your 2nd signature line. Too bad you don't have any sense of humor or self.


----------



## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

This is an automated notice.

This topic was split up because it reached high page count.
Please feel free to continue the conversation in the new topic that was automatically created here:

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-224026-1.html

Sorry for any inconvenience.


----------

