# Funny, but sad at the same time



## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

I used to sew for various historical groups, every things from very serious business historical recreation to grown ups playing dress up on the weekends.

I had someone commission a large number of simple shirts, plain trousers and belt lengths of hand woven. ( large being more than 30 of each) It's something I've seen before where someone is trying to do very basic outfighting of a group so no red flags went up. I gave him a quote (in writing with stipulations like I had to have EVERYTHING before work started, materials and half the cost up front the rest on delivery) No problems on the first run, aside from having no free time that wasn't used for sewing or weaving.

He's happy first run he gets his loot I get paid no problem, he comes back for another round, bigger (70 of everything this time and a shorter deadline, little bells started going off) and he wants a bulk discount (bells are ringing louder) Rather reluctantly go through the process again and again he gets his loot (with a lot more grouching and complaining) and I get paid.

Six months later he's back wanting 200 of everything in the same time frame as the 70 (four months) I'm going uh no. He keeps badgering (which makes my internal alarms scream louder every time, especially when he doesn't want to pay up on delivery) and eventually he makes a snark about how I'm pricing him out of the market and leaves.

Today I found out why.

A friend (who I didn't know then) brought me a shirt to mend and to have the scratchy tag taken out. Under the tag was the bit of embroidery I used to use to mark my pieces.

The guy was taking my work, putting another label on it and selling it as part of a kit for re-enactors for almost $800 a pop.

explains why after the first run through he started acting off :-/

found myself glad I don't do outside commissions like that anymore.


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## OddBodkin (Nov 18, 2013)

Wow! You must do wonderful work, very quickly. I'd be all worn out! . . . . Is that sort of thing legal?


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

it's legal, but what he was doing was a bit hinky. At the time I was a single college student and had a bit more free time than I do now.

I just find it funny that one of those shirts came back to me 15+ years later and sad that the guy felt he had to lie to get what he wanted.


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## easterisa (Mar 25, 2011)

There is always someone trying to undercut another. I would write an editorial to the paper of his home town to let everyone know how low down this person is. Don't soft soap it, a cheater needs to be exposed.


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

after this much time I doubt he's even still in the same state, but I've warned a few folks to watch out for someone wanting very large orders with very vague details.

I do still do a small amount of commission work, but it's people I know, and folks who don't choke at $60+materials for a basic tunic.


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

I understand your feelings, but he really wasn't doing anything wrong. You got the price you wanted, and plenty of business. So why worry about where it went from there? 

Just wondering what you would tell people to "watch out" for... someone who is enterprising? I fail to see anything low down about that.


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## aparade (Jan 24, 2013)

I'm so sorry to hear you were taken advantage of! I just can't believe how some people can be. On the bright side however, maybe you can continue to make these pieces and overstep grumpy butt and keep all the profits! Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


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## aparade (Jan 24, 2013)

Sewbizgirl said:


> I understand your feelings, but he really wasn't doing anything wrong. You got the price you wanted, and plenty of business. So why worry about where it went from there?
> 
> Just wondering what you would tell people to "watch out" for... someone who is enterprising? I fail to see anything low down about that.


He was using her. She was under the impression he was supplying a theater or something similar, and here he was re-selling her hand made items, with his own label. If he had come out and stated he was reselling, it would be different. In my opinion anyway.

Happy Easter to All!


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

the fact that he lied. If he'd been up front it wouldn't have been an issue.

"I'm doing this for my household" is a good bit different than "I'm looking for a person to sew for my business" I use a different contract use a different form for taxes etc. 

the warning is for folks who don't have money and time to front for 600 pieces. Some one welching on 50% of a $60 item is an fooled me once, 50% on an order of over $2000 (at the time) is the rent for the month and then some. If you can afford to eat that kind of loss more power to you. I just feel if you are going into a situation like that it should be with open eyes and a FULL awareness of the consequences.

it's rather like a small scale nasty we had locally, someone claiming to be collecting items for a neonatal unit and then turning around and reselling them on Ebay. The "theft" in my case is inconsequential I did get paid, however he DID misrepresent things. If he'd told me the truth I could have been prepared, and would have been a bit better prepared for the IRS audit I had for that year. As it was lesson learned.


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

aparade said:


> I'm so sorry to hear you were taken advantage of! I just can't believe how some people can be. On the bright side however, maybe you can continue to make these pieces and overstep grumpy butt and keep all the profits! Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


most people don't want to pay for the time, just like with knitting. That and I've had people look at one of my basic shirts and snort saying they could "do that in 2 hours" (they can't, not even just counting time for actively sewing. I got one last year making that comment and challenged him to prove it. He couldn't and complained I cheated when we were both starting with a cut out pattern and sewing in front of anyone who wanted to watch. It had my husband laughing himself almost sick.)


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

Well, you did get more business than if you were to try and find the customers yourself. Think of him as a middleman, a salesman. Would you have had time to do that and make those connections yourself? Yes, it would have been nice to be told his intentions, but if he paid you what you wanted for your work, I can't see that you've been cheated.

Now, the person collecting handknits in the guise of charity, and then selling them... that's outright FRAUD and illegal. There's been a whole lot of that in the online community (where people can easily pretend to be what they are not) and is why I encourage people to GIVE LOCALLY, rather than send their stuff away into the unknown.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

What a shame.


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

Sewbizgirl said:


> Well, you did get more business than if you were to try and find the customers yourself. Think of him as a middleman, a salesman. Would you have had time to do that and make those connections yourself? Yes, it would have been nice to be told his intentions, but if he paid you what you wanted for your work, I can't see that you've been cheated.
> 
> Now, the person collecting handknits in the guise of charity, and then selling them... that's outright FRAUD and illegal. There's been a whole lot of that in the online community (where people can easily pretend to be what they are not) and is why I encourage people to GIVE LOCALLY, rather than send their stuff away into the unknown.


The big issue is he lied, to me and when I was audited I found he'd lied to the IRS (thus why I was audited) He grumped about using a contract but I don't sew for ANYONE outside immediate family without a contract. and that should have been my first red flag really, looking back on it. He submitted his forms (for order #2)saying he was paying me more than he was (by about $30 an item) I had my originals (and was very glad I'd had them done in front of a Notary) so the auditor could see where he'd whited out things written in something new and faked initials.

First run he didn't, Third run I'm scared to think of how he would have reported things. Something like that IS worth a heads up to people (if only so they can document things if he did it again) He's an entrepreneur/middleman call it what you will, but he LIED.

Most of the folks I gave a heads up to can not afford to front for that kind of thing but might be desperate enough to try. (when you are choosing between food and critical medications, well you can do things you Know are stupid)

And if he's willing to lie about something as trivial as what a lot of shirts is going to and how much he paid for them, what Else is he willing to lie about?


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## OddBodkin (Nov 18, 2013)

Not sure how he could claim that you were pricing him out of business. . . . Great that you are a really good bookkeeper!


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## Sewbizgirl (May 11, 2011)

Mikaiyawa said:


> The big issue is he lied, to me and when I was audited I found he'd lied to the IRS (thus why I was audited) He grumped about using a contract but I don't sew for ANYONE outside immediate family without a contract. and that should have been my first red flag really, looking back on it. He submitted his forms (for order #2)saying he was paying me more than he was (by about $30 an item) I had my originals (and was very glad I'd had them done in front of a Notary) so the auditor could see where he'd whited out things written in something new and faked initials.
> 
> First run he didn't, Third run I'm scared to think of how he would have reported things. Something like that IS worth a heads up to people (if only so they can document things if he did it again) He's an entrepreneur/middleman call it what you will, but he LIED.
> 
> ...


People do lie...unfortunately. It's hard to find an honest person. Just cover yourself, make sure you get your money up front, and don't worry about his problems with the IRS. They are good at taking care of themselves!


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

OddBodkin said:


> Not sure how he could claim that you were pricing him out of business. . . .


given he was paying me about $95 a set (which was for about 15 hours of work each, which at the time was better than minimum wage.) and charging $800 you'd think he could go a good long ways even with the cost to put kits together and haul them around before you were running lean. But who can tell?

I couldn't afford the time for round three even if he hadn't been setting off little warning bells in my head. I wouldn't have had time to eat, sleep or go to class.


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## bwtyer (Oct 31, 2012)

Adding a few things and reselling items happens a lot- I agree with you- being honest with you would have been nice. I am glad you kept good records. Dishonest people usually get what's coming to them in the long run and then wonder "why". On the other hand- see how well made your clothes are- still being worn after 15 years of wearing and washing! :thumbup:


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## JaneyW (Feb 24, 2011)

Several issues here. First off, you were lied to. Never a good feeling, and really nasty in business, because of ramifications with folks like the IRS. Secondly, your work was being passed off as someone (something) else's. That is fraud. Thankfully, YOUR work is the stellar kind, and you can at least be proud of it.
I ran into a somewhat similar problem. I was asked to make some knitted things for a shop, and I bartered for half the cost. The items appeared all dutifully marked up and sold like crazy. I needed a break and said I wouldn't be knitting for a time. Next thing I knew, when I visited that shop, there were very inferior products for sale, bearing MY label. I never knitted for that shop owner again. And made her take MY labels off of everything she was selling. (Fool me once, and I'm out of here!)I still get many orders for the same items, and get a nice price for them selling directly to people. This taught me that I really do NOT need to have a 'middle man' in there!


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## TapestryArtist (Sep 4, 2013)

Some years ago I designed and wove a length of a very complicated fabric that would be made into a guitar strap. It used five colors, had a feather design. I asked - only - $250 for it.... well worth twice or more the price. After delivery - my mistake, it was never paid for. Later I attended an art and craft show and found the couple that had ordered it, and was given two small copies of the woman's paintings.... way down the list of editions. Really not worth the paper they were printed on. She makes thousands from her originals. I mean thousands and thousands. I hope the bastard trips on the belt!


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

TapestryArtist said:


> Some years ago I designed and wove a length of a very complicated fabric that would be made into a guitar strap. It used five colors, had a feather design. I asked - only - $250 for it.... well worth twice or more the price. After delivery - my mistake, it was never paid for. Later I attended an art and craft show and found the couple that had ordered it, and was given two small copies of the woman's paintings.... way down the list of editions. Really not worth the paper they were printed on. She makes thousands from her originals. I mean thousands and thousands. I hope the bastard trips on the belt!


that was the thing I was concerned about, the do all the work then Not get paid for it. Not many folks can afford that kind of Learning Experience.

Something I do find funny is last night at the grocery store I ran into (quite literally) the last IRS auditor I had dealings with. He's retired now and for a wonder actually recognized me (his comment was weren't you blond the last time we talked) Small world  he was here visiting his grandson who goes to UT.


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## DickWorrall (May 9, 2011)

Mikaiyawa said:


> most people don't want to pay for the time, just like with knitting. That and I've had people look at one of my basic shirts and snort saying they could "do that in 2 hours" (they can't, not even just counting time for actively sewing. I got one last year making that comment and challenged him to prove it. He couldn't and complained I cheated when we were both starting with a cut out pattern and sewing in front of anyone who wanted to watch. It had my husband laughing himself almost sick.)


My wife and I used to make straw dolls out of raffia.
We used 2 to 3 yards of lace, a small basket, flowers, buttons, rick rack, fabric, a Styrofoam ball, etc.
We sold them for $9 and then went up to $12. Sometimes we made a profit. But, most it was that we broke even.
You buy glue and things that you use over and over.
The lace was from 25 cents a yard to $1.50 a yard.
We did them for fun and not profit.

Well, this one lady told her friend not to buy ours. She would make it for her.
We knew that it would cost over $20 and a lot of running around to find the materials needed.
When she finished, the lady said how much and the reply was $12.
She never did make another one.

We made macrame plant hangers and people did not want to pay the price we paid for the macrame cord.

We met a lady that made quilts. She had the same problem. People didn't want to pay half of what it cost for material to make them.

Glad that you were able to teach that person a lesson.

I donate a lot to charity. At least, the people who get the things I make appreciate them.
Dick


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## Mikaiyawa (Mar 1, 2013)

He didn't think about prep time, didn't think about the time to pin parts together, didn't think about how much time it takes to do a good seam finish (I've gotten to where I can turn a seam edge under at the machine with a quilt pin as I'm sewing along, very few others around me can.) He didn't think about the time it takes to wash and dry the finished product to get the tailors chalk marks out or even the time it takes to make sure you've clipped all the loose thread tails off.

Individually they are negligible, together they add up quite substantially.

I try and explain to folks Why I charge like I do. The remark of if I can make more asking do you want fries with that? (working as a fast food server) tends to get the point across, most of the time they just don't think about it.

Saturday at practice we had a guy ask how much I'd charge for a "fancy shirt" like I was wearing and he balked when I said $60 + cost of materials. he said he could get a shirt at Wal Mart for under $20.

I about killed myself laughing when one of the other guys at practice asked "and how long will that shirt last? She's been wearing that for almost 20 years." The look on the guys face was Priceless.

This is the shirt, if the picture attaches anyway.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Mikaiyawa said:


> it's legal, but what he was doing was a bit hinky. At the time I was a single college student and had a bit more free time than I do now.
> 
> I just find it funny that one of those shirts came back to me 15+ years later and sad that the guy felt he had to lie to get what he wanted.


that stinks he should of at least given you a commission on what he sold! If he had been smart he would of had 3 or 4 of you all sewing for him.. he wouldn't of lost you and he would of made a small fortune


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## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

OddBodkin said:


> Wow! You must do wonderful work, very quickly. I'd be all worn out! . . . . Is that sort of thing legal?


Sounds like fraud to me. What a no good fink.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Mikaiyawa said:


> The big issue is he lied, to me and when I was audited I found he'd lied to the IRS (thus why I was audited) He grumped about using a contract but I don't sew for ANYONE outside immediate family without a contract. and that should have been my first red flag really, looking back on it. He submitted his forms (for order #2)saying he was paying me more than he was (by about $30 an item) I had my originals (and was very glad I'd had them done in front of a Notary) so the auditor could see where he'd whited out things written in something new and faked initials.
> 
> First run he didn't, Third run I'm scared to think of how he would have reported things. Something like that IS worth a heads up to people (if only so they can document things if he did it again) He's an entrepreneur/middleman call it what you will, but he LIED.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

It seems dishonest to me --- He implied he designed it when he didn't from what I read - he lied about what he paid for them. He 
will lie in lots of other cases too, in my opinion. I wouldn't want to do business with him and I think people should be warned about him. Too much taking advantage in my opinion. I think his business practice is dishonest and he will carry on doing worse and worse if he gets away with it.

I have been making my original thread painted and appliqued landscapes wallhangings for years. Someone took one of my originals, and bought it -- It wasn't copyrighted -- but she covered my signature on the bottom with some thread painted leaves and also put a label on the back with her name on it. My work was well known in the quilting community in my Province-- A friend of mine saw it in a show - and called me -- we went to the town where it was showing - and it was mine. I contacted the head of the quilt show and told her -- we examined it --the person who was 'showing it' under her name as the artist, me, and the head of the Show and the committee- and removed the label - we called the police and she was charged with fraud. It was my work, it wasn't a copy --- If she had tried to copy it and called it her own, she would not have been very open or honest but she would not have broken the law as it wasn't under copyright --

I also sent pictures of the wall hanging to the police registered mail - with a codicile from 3 quilters that they had seen it whileI was making it at a retreat in Sylvan lake - They watched the work in progress and though it wasn't bordered, it was nearly finished. I taught a couple of the people there how to thread paint. .

What is the different from what this person did-- It was her work, he put another label on it and sold it for large amounts of money, which was even worse. My wallhanging was entered in a contest for best art quilt and the committee members showed me that it would have won.

Dishonesty to me. He is a liar and a con artist in my opinion.


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