# P.O.V. Liberal #2



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for the news from Wisconsin and the update on Scott Walker, Al. Maybe we should check out activity in some other states as well. Any Liberal Ladies want to report on what is happening in your part of the country or your home state in particular? We should be aware of what is happening locally as well as on the national level.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you for these anecdotes, Cheeky. I usually associate unions with "benevolent" in my mind because the actions of unions in those times and in those places were for the good of the people.


All the more reason to bring Unions back. Too many people think only of Jimmy Hoffa and his Mob connections. The Mob infiltrated any place they could where they saw a place they could make money. We all know what happened to him. Well I guess we don't really but we know somebody did make him disappear. Hoffa gave Unions a bad name and you and I both know that the vast majority of Unions did a lot of good for millions of workers and their families because they were a group of organized citizens who could speak truth to power who would have otherwise ignored them and for many years did. My grandfathers were already working for the mining companies and railroad at a time when strike breakers were brought in and these men were hired henchmen with questionable pasts who thought nothing of beating up and on some occasions shooting and killing miners and threatening not only them but their wives and children. I have relatives who are represented by a wide variety of Unions today and I have been a Union member myself and I know that as an individual I would not have gotten the pay and benefits that I received and as you pointed out all workers have rights that were fought for and won by Unions and they should be thanking them for these things they take for granted today.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> All the more reason to bring Unions back. Too many people think only of Jimmy Hoffa and his Mob connections. The mob infiltrated any place they could where they saw a place they could make money. We all know what happened to him. Well I guess we don't really but we know somebody did make him disappear. Hoffa gave Unions a bad name and you and I both know that the vast majority of Unions did a lot of good for millions of workers and their families because they were a group of organized citizens who could speak truth to power who would have otherwise ignored them and for many years did. My grandfathers were already working for the mining companies and railroad at time when strike breakers where brought in and these men were hired henchmen with questionable pasts who thought nothing of beating up and on some occasions shooting and killing miners and threatening not only them but their wives and children. I have relatives who are represented by a wide variety of Unions today and I have been a Union member myself and I know that as an individual I would not have gotten the pay and benefits that I have received and as you pointed out all workers have rights that were fought for and won by Unions and they should be thanking them for these things they take for granted today.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> He is also owned by the Koch Brothers. Interesting article I found.
> 
> http://www.polluterwatch.com/koch-industries


No surprise there!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The poll also found that:
> 
> _Nearly two-thirds of respondents felt that state government is run for the benefit of big interests, rather than the benefit of the people, and that state government can only be trusted to do the right thing some of the time.
> _


This quote is particularly interesting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least the bold and colored print make it easier to identify what NOT TO READ. 

So many important and interesting topics out there. I'm enjoying this thread and LOLL so very much.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think this may be the best part of being a grandmother today. We can enjoy the individuality in each child rather than fitting them into a mold. Each so different. Each so perfect.



jelun2 said:


> alcameron wrote:
> I didn't mean to slight this little blondie. I somehow missed this one! He's very cute as well as the little girl. Equal time given!
> 
> Susanmos2000
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Patty. And thank YOU Mary Kenney O'Sullivan.



BrattyPatty said:


> Here is another woman who helped organize in the labor force.
> Mary Kenney O'Sullivan was from a working-class Irish background who became a dressmaker and then worked in a printing and binding factory in Missouri, and several binderies in Chicago. She helped organize the Chicago Women's Bindery Workers' Union, finding support for the union at Hull-House.
> 
> In 1892 the American Federation of Labor (AFL) appointed her the first woman general organizer. That same year she joined Mary Kehew in forming the Union for Industrial Progress to help study factory working conditions. After her 1894 marriage to the Boston Globe labor editor, she moved to Boston where she organized rubber makers, shoe workers, laundry workers and garment workers.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I assume the shop is long gone. If not, maybe Ingried and I could pay them a visit.



BrattyPatty said:


> Sounds like the first jewelry shop I worked in. One of my coworker's mother passed away. The owner made her come back to work right after the funeral.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is a link to read about the Lowell Mill Girls
> 
> http://www.nps.gov/lowe/planyourvisit/upload/mill%20girls.pdf


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Lots to learn about determination here...and everywhere.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Scott Walker Approval Rating Not So Hot: Poll (published 9/04/13
> 
> MILWAUKEE  A majority of Wisconsin residents disapprove of Republican Gov. Scott Walker's performance and are dissatisfied with the way things are going in the state, according to a new poll released Wednesday.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: A different view than what was entered by the opposition. Good illustration that they are not trustworthy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well I will start with Minnesota. The union has talked employees of 15 WalMart stores around the country stage major walk outs to protest below cost of living wages and no benefits. A store in Minneapolis is one of them. 

http://washingtonexaminer.com/union-orchestrating-walmart-walkout-for-thursday/article/2535116


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

One thing I find disturbing is how the GOP has set what is moral aside and now have no qualms living by the "New Golden Rule" which is; "If it is legal do it." Scott Walker is just one of many Republicans along with people like the Koch Brothers who have absolutely no moral fiber and only worship at the altar of their new god; the "Almighty Dollar". People be damned! What good is it to amass a fortune when it is not used to do good? Money in and of itself is not evil but like anything else it is how one uses it and the big dogs like the Koch brothers or the mom and pop operations on Etsy who import so called hand made items or sell hand made items actually made in the U.S. and pay these workers virtually nothing for their time and provide absolutely no benefits. They lean back and relax and keep profiting off the hard work of others and they travel around the globe and write off their trips and luxury vacations as "business expenses". I guess if one has no moral compass people like these can pride themselves on being very clever and having a lot of business savvy. My moral compass tells me that as Scrooge learned from Marley and the three spirits who visited him on Christmas Eve; my business should have been about mankind. My parents read this beautiful story to us every Christmas Eve for as long as I can remember and the tradition is still carried on in the family. This was one of the ways they instilled moral values in us. What ever happened to people like Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and so many others who's new religion is the Church of the Almighty Tea Party. I doubt that most of them really understand their goddess Ayn Rand and what she really represented. It isn't at all admirable. I fervently hope that these new young Republicans will wake up to what is important in life, which is living each day for the good of the American people and all mankind and not be concerned with what is material and measured by the size of one's bank account. Just as we will leave this world so will they and all the riches in the world do no one any good unless used thoughtfully and with the good of mankind being foremost. Although this is a Christmas story it is true every day of the year and has been a guide for me and my family as to what is truly important in this life and if I learned nothing else, money while it can make one more comfortable, has nothing to do with it.


One of the most moving statements in this Christmas tale is by Marley's Ghost when despairing over "life's opportunities misused." Scrooge, trembling with fear and beginning to share in Marley's guilt, says: "But you were always a good man of business, Jacob." Upon which the Ghost cried out in anguish:

Business! Mankind was my business. The common welfare was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were all my business. The dealings of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!
These words stand as an eloquent expression of our grand human purpose, suggesting that it is our inner thoughts and feelings, our motives, our priorities, which contribute to making our lives an emptiness or a fullness. What we are in our whole being is so much grander than anything we can measure by surface values. In Goethe's words, "We are shaped and fashioned by what we love." The "comprehensive ocean" brings to mind the vast spiritual resources in ourselves, that ocean of truth within, that we are just beginning to discover. From this standpoint our routine activities in themselves are but a "drop of water" compared to our total duty or "business" as innately caring and responsible human beings.

How easy it is to be caught in a narrow circle of thought, magnify its importance, and through such preoccupation become blinded to matters that need our full attention; or, through a mental block of prejudice or hostility, prevent a mutually happy exchange that might otherwise be possible. In the case of Jacob Marley and Ebenezer Scrooge, it was as if they had closed off all sunlight from the small, cold island of isolation each had created. Scrooge receives his first awakening when he learns from Marley's Ghost that the steel chain encumbering him -- made of cashboxes, padlocks, heavy purses and the like -- is wrought from his material and covetous thoughts. The Ghost further alerts Scrooge that he too must have acquired a chain equally if not more ponderous. We do indeed forge of our own free will every link in the chain of effects that binds us to this earth, and only we can lessen the burden as we awaken to the needs of others with greater sensitivity and understanding. This is part of the evolutionary process we are continuously undergoing.

The genius of Dickens lies in dramatizing Scrooge's gradual inner transformation through the exchange of observations and questionings with Marley's Ghost and the Spirits of Christmas Past, Present, and To Come. The characteristics of these all-wise Spirits resemble in certain respects the experiences some undergo in intense crises. Sometimes when Scrooge reacts to a situation, the light of the Spirit in attendance grows brighter, as when he feels nostalgia for his "former self" of his youthful days before the girl he loved was displaced by his love of gold, and when with Mr. Fezziwig he was helpful and happy in his work, and entertained "nobler aspirations." The three Spirits visit Scrooge in turn and show him his past, what he is building in the present, and the bleak and friendless future ahead of him if he continues in the direction he is going. He is reminded often of lost opportunities to show charity and love; for instance, for the Cratchit family who so courageously face their deprivations and Tiny Tim's frailty, while the warmth and joy of family sharing more than compensate for their troubles and the leanness of their holiday feast. He is deeply touched by Tiny Tim and asks the Ghost of Christmas Present "with an interest he never felt before," if Tiny Tim will live. "Not if these shadows remain unaltered by the Future," is the answer he receives. He visits everywhere with this Spirit: in almshouses, hospitals, jails; "in misery's every refuge," learning as he goes. Scrooge's conscience is gradually aroused, and his bitterness toward life becomes transmuted into understanding. Aware that people's courses will determine "certain ends," he begs the Ghost of Christmas Yet To Come to allow him to change the shadows of the future by a changed life: "Hear me! I am not the man I was. I will not be the man I must have been but for this intercourse. . . . I will honor Christmas in my heart, and try to keep it all the year. I will live in the Past, the Present, and the Future. The Spirits of all three shall strive within me." And as Scrooge said these words, the Spirit's "kind hand trembled."

The crowning point is, of course, Scrooge's triumph. He makes good his promises, helps the Cratchit family and others in need, and he and Tiny Tim become the best of friends. From this moment he sees everything with new eyes for his heart is filled with joy, and wherever he goes on the familiar streets he derives particular pleasure especially on Christmas day!

A Christmas Carol arouses our sympathies and gives hope for humankind. It belongs to this sacred birthtime of the year, a time of beginnings and opportunities, when all things -- and people too -- are touched by the tide of renewal. As Scrooge's nephew said when his uncle formerly dismissed Christmas and its joyous significance with the words, Bah! Humbug!:

I have always thought of Christmas time, when it has come around apart from the veneration due to its sacred name and origin, if anything belonging to it can be apart from that -- as a good time; a kind, forgiving, charitable, pleasant time; the only time I know of the long calendar of the year, when men and women seem by one consent to open their shut-up hearts freely, and to think of people . . . as if they were fellow-passengers. . . .
Although commercialized and sometimes a superficial observance, this holiday time with its mounting spirit of goodwill and open-hearted sharing is bound to have its effect in the world and on individual lives. A global family of evolving souls, we are linked together, "fellow-passengers" on an endless journey toward an ever broader awareness of our responsibilities to life and to one another. Perhaps the greatest appeal of this masterpiece of Dickens lies in the intuitive perception it awakens in us that compassionate involvement with all humankind has been and will always be our "business."

(From Sunrise magazine, December 1985/January 1986; copyright © 1985 Theosophical University Press)


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for the news from Wisconsin and the update on Scott Walker, Al. Maybe we should check out activity in some other states as well. Any Liberal Ladies want to report on what is happening in your part of the country or your home state in particular? We should be aware of what is happening locally as well as on the national level.


The latest in Iowa and Braindead is he was in a state car driven by an Iowa trooper and it was speeding. Larry Hedlund, a DCI agent, saw it and reported it to a trooper who followed the car and then realized it was a state trooper driving and backed off. The car was clocked doing 84. Larry Hedlund was suspended two days after he filed a formal complaint with his bosses that talked about his own failure to do more to stop Branstad's speeding vehicle on April 26. Hedlund had no previous discipline on his record, but 2 days later he was suspended, and later was fired and of course they say it had nothing to do with the Gov speeding. So then the Gov appointed a special investigator, a retired conservative state supreme court justice, appointed by Branstad. I bet you can guess his response--nothing was done wrong. Needless to say Hedlund, a 25 year veteran of the bureau has decided to sue.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> I missed it if there was an Occupy newslink. I'd love to enter it with my favorites. Thanks.


Check out RSN at: 
readersupportednews.org/
You can get their feed by signing up. I couldn't go a day without it. They also offer great archives and invite readers to write on topics of concern. If a reader sends in suggestions for coverage, the editor does listen and you will often see immediate follow. RSN is reader funded!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> One thing I find disturbing is how the GOP has set what is moral aside and now have no qualms living by the "New Golden Rule" which is; "If it is legal do it." Scott Walker is just one of many Republicans along with people like the Koch Brothers who have absolutely no moral fiber and only worship at the altar of their new god; the "Almighty Dollar". People be damned! What good is it to amass a fortune when it is not used to do good? Money in and of itself is not evil but like anything else it is how one uses it and the big dogs like the Koch brothers or the mom and pop operations on Etsy who import so called hand made items or sell hand made items actually made in the U.S. and pay these workers virtually nothing for their time and provide absolutely no benefits. They lean back and relax and keep profiting off the hard work of others and they travel around the globe and write off their trips and luxury vacations as "business expenses". I guess if one has no moral compass people like these can pride themselves on being very clever and having a lot of business savvy. My moral compass tells me that as Scrooge learned from Marley and the three spirits who visited him on Christmas Eve; my business should have been about mankind. My parents read this beautiful story to us every Christmas Eve for as long as I can remember and the tradition is still carried on in the family. This was one of the ways they instilled moral values in us. What ever happened to people like Scott Walker, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, Marco Rubio and so many others who's new religion is the Church of the Almighty Tea Party. I doubt that most of them really understand their goddess Ayn Rand and what she really represented. Although this is a Christmas story it is true every day of the year and has been a guide for me and my family as to what is truly important in this life and money has nothing to do with it.
> 
> One of the most moving statements in this Christmas tale is by Marley's Ghost when despairing over "life's opportunities misused." Scrooge, trembling with fear and beginning to share in Marley's guilt, says: "But you were always a good man of business, Jacob." Upon which the Ghost cried out in anguish:
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And may right prevail for Mr. Hedlund.



NJG said:


> The latest in Iowa and Braindead is he was in a state car driven by an Iowa trooper and it was speeding. Larry Hedlund, a DCI agent, saw it and reported it to a trooper who followed the car and then realized it was a state trooper driving and backed off. The car was clocked doing 84. Larry Hedlund was suspended two days after he filed a formal complaint with his bosses that talked about his own failure to do more to stop Branstad's speeding vehicle on April 26. Hedlund had no previous discipline on his record, but 2 days later he was suspended, and later was fired and of course they say it had nothing to do with the Gov speeding. So then the Gov appointed a special investigator, a retired conservative state supreme court justice, appointed by Branstad. I bet you can guess his response--nothing was done wrong. Needless to say Hedlund, a 25 year veteran of the bureau has decided to sue.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

It's so reassuring to read the posts regarding Koch Industries. They are certainly the flagship of corporate greed and manipulation nowadays. I've marched with posters encouraging folks to boycott the Koch-topus for a couple of years now, but often feel like I'm trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon. But it's beginning to catch on... I will look on line for a list of Koch entities I have on file; I have been boycotting them for some time. Am delighted that they were unable to buy the LA Times.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Sorry.... I'm bogarding the thread today... This is the best overview of the Koch-topus to date: 
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
Jane Mayer is a brilliant writer and a very gutsy lady; when I heard her interviewed by Terry Gross (Fresh Air) after this article was published, I was worried that the next day's headline was going to be "New Yorker columnist killed in auto accident". Great lady!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Brilliant analysis. Good example of how people are manipulated. And is this why people vote against their own self-interest?



midwegian said:


> Sorry.... I'm bogarding the thread today... This is the best overview of the Koch-topus to date:
> http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/08/30/100830fa_fact_mayer
> Jane Mayer is a brilliant writer and a very gutsy lady; when I heard her interviewed by Terry Gross (Fresh Air) after this article was published, I was worried that the next day's headline was going to be "New Yorker columnist killed in auto accident". Great lady!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why I'm a Democrat.



BrattyPatty said:


> !


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/approval-ratings-for-scott-walker-barack-obama-dip-below-50-in-state-b9959840z1-216585271.html?ipad=y

From July of this year


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Fron today's ReaderSupportedNews...
http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/277-75/19254-watching-scotty-walker-blow
The Wisconsin iron mines are mentioned.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


BrattyPattey
Republicans vs. Democrats:
This is the finest example of our differences ever posted as well as the most accurate. 
Makes me proud to be not a Republican.
A thank you going your way.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


BrattyPatty
Republicans vs. Democrats
I love to read this over and over again. Seldom does one see something in print anymore which is truthful.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Joey, I am checking on the Scott Walker story. You have raised valid points.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Some one is being deceptive.
> 
> When you go to Huffington Post website and search: "Scott Walker Approval Rating Not So Hot"
> you get this:
> ...


I apologize for this error. Joey is absolutely correct. I glanced at the 2013 in the article above the one I posted.
I am sorry for the confusion. It was not meant to be deceptive.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> BrattyPattey
> Republicans vs. Democrats:
> This is the finest example of our differences ever posted as well as the most accurate.
> Makes me proud to be not a Republican.
> A thank you going your way.


Isnt that just the truth, Huck?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Thank you alcameron.
> I try to post accurate information and give the website where I found it, I expect others to do the same. It is always possible the website has wrong information.


Approval ratings for Scott Walker, Barack Obama dip below 50% in state
In the interest of fairness, this is dated July 23, 2013
Politics

In the countdown to his 2014 re-election campaign, one poll conducted in the middle of summer won't make or break Republican Gov. Scott Walker, or even alter his political course.

But there were a few fascinating data points buried in the latest Marquette University Law School Poll, which showed Walker's job approval rating slipping below 50% for only the third time in 11 polls since the June 2012 recall election.

The headline numbers from Tuesday's release showed 48% of those polled in July approved of Walker's job performance, while 46% disapproved.

In May, 51% approved Walker's handling of his job and 45% disapproved.

Walker's dip was almost exactly the same as the one experienced by President Barack Obama, a Democrat who also slipped below 50% job approval in the state.

In July, Obama's job approval was 47% and disapproval was 47%. In May, 50% approved of Obama's job performance and 45% disapproved.

Obama is doing better in Wisconsin than he is nationally. A McClatchy-Marist poll released this week showed only 41% approved of Obama's job performance and 48% disapproved.

The Marquette poll came in the wake of Walker signing a two-year budget that included $651 million in tax cuts.

"There is a modest shift," said poll director Charles Franklin. "I don't want to overplay that. On the other hand, Walker has only rarely been below 50% in our polling since the recall. A little bit of movement is worth nothing. Whether it is permanent or it is a trend, we don't know yet."

Franklin pointed to some interesting numbers in the poll.

People calling themselves Democrats or Republicans slipped by 4% from May to July, with each party dropping by 2%.

"There's just a little bit of a hint after such intense partisan combat both here in the state and nationally, maybe people are feeling tired of it," Franklin said.

The job approval-disapproval figures for Walker and Obama showed a gender gap. Women approved of Obama by 51%-42% compared with 43%-51% for Walker.

It was the opposite among men, who approved of Walker by 54%-39% compared with 43%-52% for Obama.

"Men really like Scott Walker," Franklin said.

Opinions on jobs

In recent months, Franklin has homed in on how job approval ratings are linked to voters' views on job creation.

The latest poll showed 48% of voters see Wisconsin lagging behind other states in job creation, 35% at about the same rate and 8% faster than other states.

Republicans viewed job creation in Wisconsin far more favorably than others, with 67% of Republicans thinking Wisconsin was creating jobs faster than or at the same rate as other states, compared with only 23% of Democrats and 44% of independents.

Republicans who saw the state lagging behind on jobs gave Walker an approval rating of 63%, compared with 87% approval by those who said the state was holding its own or doing better on jobs.

Independents who saw the state lagging behind on jobs gave Walker a 27% approval rating, compared with a 79% approval rating among those who saw a better jobs picture.

On the economy, 29% of those polled said it has gotten better in the past year, 29% said it was worse and 41% said it has stayed about the same. In May, there was slightly more optimism expressed.

Overall, Republicans approved of Walker by 81% to 12%, while Democrats disapproved of Walker by 12% to 82%.

Democrats approved of Obama by 90% to 8%, while Republicans disapproved of him by 10% to 86%.

Obama receives high job approval numbers in the city of Milwaukee (71%) and Madison (54%) television market, with steep drop-offs in the western and northern parts of the state (45%), the Green Bay-Appleton media market (42%) and in the Milwaukee media market outside the city (41%).

It's the reverse for Walker, who receives approval ratings of 55% in the Green Bay-Appleton media market and 56% in the west and northern parts of the state. Meanwhile, only 30% approve of Walker's job performance in the city of Milwaukee, and 36% in the Madison TV market.

Outside the city, Walker's approval jumps to 52% in the Milwaukee TV market.

Those polled also expressed skepticism about government, including 87% who strongly agreed or somewhat agreed that "people in government waste a lot of money we pay in taxes."

Franklin said the"level of cynicism" about government can be a political advantage for "proponents of smaller government."

The poll of 713 registered Wisconsin voters was conducted by landline and cellphone, July 15 to 18. The margin of error for the poll is plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Some one is being deceptive.
> 
> When you go to Huffington Post website and search: "Scott Walker Approval Rating Not So Hot"
> you get this:
> ...


Joey - No one was trying to be deceptive in posting that other news link. Both dates were in the link and Al merely saw the more recent one where Huff Post had reprinted it. Lets look at the current one. Below is the article in it's entirety you quoted from the Milwaukee Sentinel;

As I read it Obama has a disapproval rating of 47% in WI and Walker has a disapproval rating of 46%. Since there is a 3.7% margin of error either way. This 1.0% difference is really not significant since it is within the margin of error. 
It is also not relevant to compare a Governor who may be running for President in the future and a President who will not be running again and it appears that areas in the state that are stronger for Obama aren't as strong for Walker and those stronger for Walker not strong for Obama.
Please explain what the relevance of your post is. I don't see what significance it has to you so maybe I am missing what you are seeing. 
Thanks.

In the countdown to his 2014 re-election campaign, one poll conducted in the middle of summer won't make or break Republican Gov. Scott Walker, or even alter his political course.

But there were a few fascinating data points buried in the latest Marquette University Law School Poll, which showed Walker's job approval rating slipping below 50% for only the third time in 11 polls since the June 2012 recall election.

The headline numbers from Tuesday's release showed 48% of those polled in July approved of Walker's job performance, while 46% disapproved.

In May, 51% approved Walker's handling of his job and 45% disapproved.

Walker's dip was almost exactly the same as the one experienced by President Barack Obama, a Democrat who also slipped below 50% job approval in the state.

In July, Obama's job approval was 47% and disapproval was 47%. In May, 50% approved of Obama's job performance and 45% disapproved.

Obama is doing better in Wisconsin than he is nationally. A McClatchy-Marist poll released this week showed only 41% approved of Obama's job performance and 48% disapproved.

The Marquette poll came in the wake of Walker signing a two-year budget that included $651 million in tax cuts.

"There is a modest shift," said poll director Charles Franklin. "I don't want to overplay that. On the other hand, Walker has only rarely been below 50% in our polling since the recall. A little bit of movement is worth nothing. Whether it is permanent or it is a trend, we don't know yet."

Franklin pointed to some interesting numbers in the poll.

People calling themselves Democrats or Republicans slipped by 4% from May to July, with each party dropping by 2%.

"There's just a little bit of a hint after such intense partisan combat both here in the state and nationally, maybe people are feeling tired of it," Franklin said.

The job approval-disapproval figures for Walker and Obama showed a gender gap. Women approved of Obama by 51%-42% compared with 43%-51% for Walker.

It was the opposite among men, who approved of Walker by 54%-39% compared with 43%-52% for Obama.

"Men really like Scott Walker," Franklin said.

Opinions on jobs

In recent months, Franklin has homed in on how job approval ratings are linked to voters' views on job creation.

The latest poll showed 48% of voters see Wisconsin lagging behind other states in job creation, 35% at about the same rate and 8% faster than other states.

Republicans viewed job creation in Wisconsin far more favorably than others, with 67% of Republicans thinking Wisconsin was creating jobs faster than or at the same rate as other states, compared with only 23% of Democrats and 44% of independents.

Republicans who saw the state lagging behind on jobs gave Walker an approval rating of 63%, compared with 87% approval by those who said the state was holding its own or doing better on jobs.

Independents who saw the state lagging behind on jobs gave Walker a 27% approval rating, compared with a 79% approval rating among those who saw a better jobs picture.

On the economy, 29% of those polled said it has gotten better in the past year, 29% said it was worse and 41% said it has stayed about the same. In May, there was slightly more optimism expressed.

Overall, Republicans approved of Walker by 81% to 12%, while Democrats disapproved of Walker by 12% to 82%.

Democrats approved of Obama by 90% to 8%, while Republicans disapproved of him by 10% to 86%.

Obama receives high job approval numbers in the city of Milwaukee (71%) and Madison (54%) television market, with steep drop-offs in the western and northern parts of the state (45%), the Green Bay-Appleton media market (42%) and in the Milwaukee media market outside the city (41%).

It's the reverse for Walker, who receives approval ratings of 55% in the Green Bay-Appleton media market and 56% in the west and northern parts of the state. Meanwhile, only 30% approve of Walker's job performance in the city of Milwaukee, and 36% in the Madison TV market.

Outside the city, Walker's approval jumps to 52% in the Milwaukee TV market.

Those polled also expressed skepticism about government, including 87% who strongly agreed or somewhat agreed that "people in government waste a lot of money we pay in taxes."

Franklin said the"level of cynicism" about government can be a political advantage for "proponents of smaller government."

The poll of 713 registered Wisconsin voters was conducted by landline and cellphone, July 15 to 18. The margin of error for the poll is plus or minus 3.7 percentage points.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wow Al, & Cheeky. Great minds do think alike!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow Al, & Cheeky. Great minds do think alike!


Had to be made right!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Had to be made right!


Thanks, Al no one thought you were trying to be deceptive. It was an honest mistake. No harm, no foul. :thumbup:


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, by the standards of the time your GGF was doing the right thing, just as Catholic priests were applauded for rounding up Native Americans and forcing them to live in the missions.
> 
> Now, of course, we know better--but after so many years it's difficult for both African- and Native Americans to pick up the pieces up their shattered cultures and try to fit them back together again.
> 
> ...


I think it would be a enormous task to help AA find their roots, but in lieu of reparations, I think it would be a healing gesture. I was questioned once by a co-worker, who relentlessly questioned me as to why Blacks call themselves African Americans. He ascertained that Africa is a continent and that he wanted to know from me, what part of the continent was my family from. He himself called himself Italian. I asked him what was the name of the street in Italy that his family lived on. He admitted that he had never been to Italy, and thought that my question was unfair. I told him that my question was just as fair as the one he posed to me.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Now here is a twist. Someone bought an old established Enterprise and found out that a Secretary (female) was being paid MUCH more than a number of Men in positions more valuable to the company than hers. In addition she had benefits the Men did not have like being off Saturdays and Mondays and on the other days never came in before 10 AM. Solution, pay was adjusted for the Men and her hours were changed. Now I call that equality and fairness. We all should have such bosses.


In the 70's I was hired as a bus driver for Greyhound Lines. I was among one of the first females hired during that time period. The company later admitted that they hired me (a college grad) because they thought that I was planted by the government to win a discrimination suit (I was not). Because there had been no female drivers in New York City, there were no overnight accommodations for me. The company had a underground dormitory for the men, but would put me up at a hotel. The men complained that it was unfair (believe me the hotel was no 5 star). The company ended up designating 2 of the dorm rooms for women and building a separate shower for us. I can't tell you how many times I went to shower and found a naked man there!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Uyvonne said:


> In the 70's I was hired as a bus driver for Greyhound Lines. I was among one of the first females hired during that time period. The company later admitted that they hired me (a college grad) because they thought that I was planted by the government to win a discrimination suit (I was not). Because there had been no female drivers in New York City, there were no overnight accommodations for me. The company had a underground dormitory for the men, but would put me up at a hotel. The men complained that it was unfair (believe me the hotel was no 5 star). The company ended up designating 2 of the dorm rooms for women and building a separate shower for us. I can't tell you how many times I went to shower and found a naked man there!


Similar to the harassment women firefighters, police officers, and other non female traditional jobs experienced in the 70's and later.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Similar to the harassment women firefighters, police officers, and other non female traditional jobs experienced in the 70's and later.


Exactly what I was going to say, Peacegoddess. Besides the "nuisance factor" of having to construct separate locker rooms and dormitories, I suspect there's deeply rooted misogyny at work too. One get the impression that these places are still seen as Bastions of Masculinity by some of their male inhabitants--having to admit women seems as ludicrous to them as Wilma and Betty trying to crash the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

NoLabels is an organization which is trying to encourage legislators to work across the aisle in a constructive manner. So far, it's only at the national level. This is not a Grover Norquist style 'pledge' but an forum for better governing habits... 

This sounds like a movement that has the intelligence to move in the right directions. All sides do have good and bad points. It is like solving a math problem, you may present the problem differently, ie, 5+5, 9+1, 2+8 or 6+4, but there is only one answer, 10. If they could only focus on what is the 'right' answer for the people, not the party answer, we would be on or way.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


amen


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Similar to the harassment women firefighters, police officers, and other non female traditional jobs experienced in the 70's and later.


Yes, exactly. We knew we were on the front lines of a very important transition. It was no walk in the park. For every guy that despised the presence of women, there were others that were eager to help in any way. I am retired now, but meet for breakfast once a month with many of those male drivers.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Uyvonne said:


> Yes, exactly. We knew we were on the front lines of a very important transition. It was no walk in the park. For every guy that despised the presence of women, there were others that were eager to help in any way. I am retired now, but meet for breakfast once a month with many of those male drivers.


We made history one day at a time.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> NoLabels is an organization which is trying to encourage legislators to work across the aisle in a constructive manner. So far, it's only at the national level. This is not a Grover Norquist style 'pledge' but an forum for better governing habits...
> 
> This sounds like a movement that has the intelligence to move in the right directions. All sides do have good and bad points. It is like solving a math problem, you may present the problem differently, ie, 5+5, 9+1, 2+8 or 6+4, but there is only one answer, 10. If they could only focus on what is the 'right' answer for the people, not the party answer, we would be on or way.


Great analogy, Uyvonne. We can only hope, right?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I think it would be a enormous task to help AA find their roots, but in lieu of reparations, I think it would be a healing gesture. I was questioned once by a co-worker, who relentlessly questioned me as to why Blacks call themselves African Americans. He ascertained that Africa is a continent and that he wanted to know from me, what part of the continent was my family from. He himself called himself Italian. I asked him what was the name of the street in Italy that his family lived on. He admitted that he had never been to Italy, and thought that my question was unfair. I told him that my question was just as fair as the one he posed to me.


I can see where tracing ancestry would be very difficult for you. I made it back to 1845 on my father's side and 1902 on my mother's side. Ellis Island did a number of name changes. If your ancestors were slaves it would be almost impossible to find which country from Africa they are from.

I like your answer to your co worker. If he was born here than he is American, just like you and I.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Similar to the harassment women firefighters, police officers, and other non female traditional jobs experienced in the 70's and later.


Read the book Class Action about women working in the mines.


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## Colorado knits (Jul 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> from a poster via Cheeky:
> 
> Look to whom they are fed-Shawn Hannity, Rush Limbaugh, the Republican House, to name only a few. My husband reads ALL the books written about Corporate America, Lobbyists, I can't think of much, but he is well rehearsed in what is going on. These ladies are believing what the upper crust feed them. They just really don't know anything. They watch Fox News. I can't watch that show even 5 minutes without getting angry. Most of Fox News isn't based on any truth. To me the worst of this is these people call themselves Christians and I just don't see Christianity in any of them. I see hate. They are holier than thou with little or no love for those less fortunate. I believe when we are much younger, we are being formed in how we fit in and view the world around us. Even in my own family this exists. Most of my living family is Republican. They admire people like Michelle Bachmann and Mitt Romney. I think the Republicans now remind me of those who persecuted Jesus. They have something deeply wrong inside. They are not normal. They are fed lies and they believe them. I just don't get it. I never will get it, because I don't have that in me and neither do you. Jesus said the first will be last and the last will be first. I think he meant those who struggled will be first. I see Jesus as a man filled with love, not a man who will get you at Heaven's Door. God is Love. I do so want to love these ladies, but they aren't lovable; however, John Lewis is much more Christ like and that's why I love the man.


Thank you for an excellent post. There's a great quote in one of my favorite books, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ by Jon Krakauer: "Organized religion is hate masquerading as love."

Sadly, this thread drips with evidence of it.

I've been away for a few days and had company; I'm not sure I will have time to get through the 100+ pages.

We are made in God's image by all being an energy force.


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## Colorado knits (Jul 6, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I am sorry if you were offended by "old white men" however that is what Congress was pretty much at the time that DOMA was passed into law. It may have become a bit younger recently. A lot of these angry white guys who are now in public service seem to be younger.
> If you have a more accurate description of the American Congress let me know and I will take it under consideration.


Congress still is mostly old white men. Unfortunately.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

As we have talked/posted about history many times, I want to recommend a book. Road to Valor. It is a short biography about Gino Bartali, the Italian cyclist who won the Tour de France twice (ten years apart due to WWII) and helped aid numerous Italian Jews during the German occupation of Italy.

Awe inspiring.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron apologized for her mistake on reading and posting the wrong date. If the article was read and the reader knew about Wisconsin Politics, they would have know that date was wrong.
> 
> I was upset about old news being posted as new news. I wonder how many other articles are posted giving the reader the wrong idea.
> 
> Something else that is not in the MJS article, that has been in recent Wisconsin News. The Democrats have not put forth any bills to rescind what Walker accomplished in Act 10 in 2011.


So do you think the Wisconsin Democratas should be wasting their time trying to repeal Act 10 like the republicans in Washington are doing with the affordable care act? Sounds to me like the Democrats in Wisconsin have a few brain cells working.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Why is it that Republicans want to cut food stamps that offer assistance to those in need, but at the same time won't raise the minimum wage to help those that need assistance to get off of food stamps?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Why is it that Republicans want to cut food stamps that offer assistance to those in need, but at the same time won't raise the minimum wage to help those that need assistance to get off of food stamps?


Because they are a very self serving group of people., I would say.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> So do you think the Wisconsin Democratas should be wasting their time trying to repeal Act 10 like the republicans in Washington are doing with the affordable care act? Sounds to me like the Democrats in Wisconsin have a few brain cells working.


Ironic,isn't it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly what I was going to say, Peacegoddess. Besides the "nuisance factor" of having to construct separate locker rooms and dormitories, I suspect there's deeply rooted misogyny at work too. One get the impression that these places are still seen as Bastions of Masculinity by some of their male inhabitants--having to admit women seems as ludicrous to them as Wilma and Betty trying to crash the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.


Susan my son is a full time firefighter in St. Paul. They not only take care of all fires but also are paramedics who respond to all calls for ambulances in the city. They live at the station for 24 hrs and they have had women for nearly 20 years at his station and the 3 women on his crew can do everything any of the guys can do. All fire fighters have to be able to make sure that they can not only fight a fire, save victims and if needed and also make sure they all come out alive and may have to save another firefighter. As a fire fighter's mother I would not want it any other way. Women have proved that they can do these jobs and do them well. There are also women captains which is wonderful. Some of the older guys were not too happy to see women come into this world of theirs but they have been much more readily welcomed by the guys 50 and under. My son is 42 and he trusts all these woman to save his life if that situation ever occurred. First it was acceptance of black men back in the 60's and now women. The fire department finally represents the people in the community. It took a while but they have come far. Their have been two black fire chiefs who moved up through the ranks and someday I'm sure there will be a woman as chief. Our neighboring city of Minneapolis has a woman police chief who is openly gay. I am proud that qualified people have finally been able to advance. There still is racism in the twin cities but we are moving in the right direction. I can only speak for this area but I am proud of all these people who serve their communities with such courage and bravery.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan my son is a full time firefighter in St. Paul. They not only take care of all fires but also are paramedics who respond to all calls for ambulances in the city. They live at the station for 24 hrs and they have had women for nearly 20 years at his station and the 3 women on his crew can do everything any of the guys can do. All fire fighters have to be able to make sure that they can not only fight a fire, save victims and if needed and also make sure they all come out alive and may have to save another firefighter. As a fire fighter's mother I would not want it any other way. Women have proved that they can do these jobs and do them well. There are also women captains which is wonderful. Some of the older guys were not too happy to see women come into this world of theirs but they have been much more readily welcomed by the guys 50 and under. My son is 42 and he trusts all these woman to save his life if that situation ever occurred. First it was acceptance of black men back in the 60's and now women. The fire department finally represents the people in the community. It took a while but they have come far. Their have been two black fire chiefs who moved up through the ranks and someday I'm sure there will be a woman as chief. Our neighboring city of Minneapolis has a woman police chief who is openly gay. I am proud that qualified people have finally been able to advance. There still is a lot of racism in the twin cities but we are moving in the right direction. I can only speak for this area but I am proud of all these people who serve their communities with such courage and bravery.


So true, Cheeky. People can change--integrating the military didn't break it to bits, nor did admitting gays. Women need to challenge sexist attitudes and take their rightful place in all areas of society--not an easy task, but it's crucial that we do so.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, Ladies. Bazinga!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night, Ladies. Bazinga!


Bye Cheeky!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm sure what you say was true in a many areas during the polio epidemic. Great acts and relationships were forged in many places, just like the examples you give. Between that and the signing of the ADA there is also a long history of disabled people being warehoused in institurions and nursing homes, or confined to back bedrooms in their parents' homes because that was what the parents had to do to afford taking care of them, and their ultimate rebellion and fight to become first class citizens.

I personally knew the people who changed the condition of disabled people on this entire planet and especially here in the US. I'm really not exaggerating. There is a chunk of the history of the Disabled Rights Movement from about 1965-1976 that started as a grassroots movement at the University of California at Berkeley when one man, Ed Roberts, a post-polio respo-quad, which mens all 4 of his limbs abd his lungs were paralyzed. He intended to go to college and made damned sure he did. The University was forced to give him a replacement for dormitory housing in the University's campus hospital.

From that hospital "dorm" Ed and a few other severely physically disabled people founded the Physically Disabled Students' Program at Cal, and the PDSP went on to form the Center for Independent Living in Berkeley as people graduated from the U and wanted to live and work in their communities. Many of these noble pioneers are dead, but the truth that I'm telling here is not.

Even today the goals those pioneers hope for haven't been fully realized. For example, only 30% of employable blind people have jobs. it is a point of pride for those who are employed to be "one of the 30".

See, you got another of my soapbox lectures. We both are talking about a large and complex history and what we both know to be true is part of a greater picture. I really enjopued reading your post and hope you enjoy what I've said here.


Cheeky Blighter said:


> I tend to agree with jelun and Andrea on this issue MIB. I grew up on the Iron Range as Andrea did. I remember very well people coming down with polio and having to be in "iron lungs" to breath, becoming crippled and dying from this terrible disease. These were friends and relatives and it was the Unions along with cooperation of the mining companies too who got help and assistance that people needed for those people disabled by polio or other illnesses or accidents. The Disability Act wasn't signed until 1990 by President Bush and this was 40 years earlier. Since whole families moved to this very isolated place the workers and mining companies began to get along much better with each other and we took care of our own for the mutual benefit of everyone and when families of upper management moved to these towns relationships got even better and more cooperative. My kindergarten teacher could not walk up the stairs in the school as she became crippled and had to walk with two canes. The mining company provided the materials and union men built a mechanical lift so this teacher could easily get access in and out of the school. Another teacher was in an iron lung for a time and recovered but was wheel chair bound so a ramp was built for him at the high school so he had access and could return to his teaching job. He was also provided with special equipment in the classroom to make it easier for him to do his job. The company also provided materials to the local churches as the aging population started to need access to their buildings and church members did the construction. This contributed to a feeling of good will between both sides so at least in these communities we had already dealt with a lot of these issues. I also remember men who had come back from WWII and Korea with missing limbs and other physical limitations who were given jobs that they could do given the limitations they had and also special accommodations so they could access work sites. I think when you are in communities like this you know everyone and realize all people want to be useful and a part of their community and Unions saw to it that people got what they needed and they could do so because they were an organized group of people taking care of each other so if anything these towns were ahead of the curve in helping people with disabilities. Granted I think it would be much easier to do in small towns versus a large urban area but I would like to give credit where credit is due.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Uyvonne. I loved your analogy. Hope it made him think.



Uyvonne said:


> I think it would be a enormous task to help AA find their roots, but in lieu of reparations, I think it would be a healing gesture. I was questioned once by a co-worker, who relentlessly questioned me as to why Blacks call themselves African Americans. He ascertained that Africa is a continent and that he wanted to know from me, what part of the continent was my family from. He himself called himself Italian. I asked him what was the name of the street in Italy that his family lived on. He admitted that he had never been to Italy, and thought that my question was unfair. I told him that my question was just as fair as the one he posed to me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Exactly what I was going to say, Peacegoddess. Besides the "nuisance factor" of having to construct separate locker rooms and dormitories, I suspect there's deeply rooted misogyny at work too. One get the impression that these places are still seen as Bastions of Masculinity by some of their male inhabitants--having to admit women seems as ludicrous to them as Wilma and Betty trying to crash the Loyal Order of Water Buffaloes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Uyvonne said:


> Yes, exactly. We knew we were on the front lines of a very important transition. It was no walk in the park. For every guy that despised the presence of women, there were others that were eager to help in any way. I am retired now, but meet for breakfast once a month with many of those male drivers.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Organized religion is hate masquerading as love." Great quote.



Colorado knits said:


> Thank you for an excellent post. There's a great quote in one of my favorite books, _Under the Banner of Heaven_ by Jon Krakauer: "Organized religion is hate masquerading as love."
> 
> Sadly, this thread drips with evidence of it.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> Why is it that Republicans want to cut food stamps that offer assistance to those in need, but at the same time won't raise the minimum wage to help those that need assistance to get off of food stamps?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You must be reading my mind. 
What a life those girls, and they were girls, had when they went searching for a bit of adventure and chance to be independent.



BrattyPatty said:


> Here is a link to read about the Lowell Mill Girls
> 
> http://www.nps.gov/lowe/planyourvisit/upload/mill%20girls.pdf


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Those were the days,MIB, when as the saying went "As California goes so goes the nation". 
That is still true in many respects though it seems to me that the development of pockets of regressives in California have slowed that to some extent. 
After all, Cali is a huge segment of our economy and can be a driving force in many ways. The development of a floor for the civil rights for individuals with handicaps was definitely bottom up, with citizens recognizing and driving the need for fairness.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm sure what you say was true in a many areas during the polio epidemic. Great acts and relationships were forged in many places, just like the examples you give. Between that and the signing of the ADA there is also a long history of disabled people being warehoused in institurions and nursing homes, or confined to back bedrooms in their parents' homes because that was what the parents had to do to afford taking care of them, and their ultimate rebellion and fight to become first class citizens.
> 
> I personally knew the people who changed the condition of disabled people on this entire planet and especially here in the US. I'm really not exaggerating. There is a chunk of the history of the Disabled Rights Movement from about 1965-1976 that started as a grassroots movement at the University of California at Berkeley when one man, Ed Roberts, a post-polio respo-quad, which mens all 4 of his limbs abd his lungs were paralyzed. He intended to go to college and made damned sure he did. The University was forced to give him a replacement for dormitory housing in the University's campus hospital.
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I find that polls are not really worth much. Having been polled and having done polls, as I am sure most of you have, the situation is almost always skewed by the form the question takes. 
We don't need to go any further back than the last presidential election and the FOX Noise predictions to see evidence of that.



alcameron said:


> Approval ratings for Scott Walker, Barack Obama dip below 50% in state
> In the interest of fairness, this is dated July 23, 2013
> Politics
> 
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So well expressed, Cheeky!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> All the more reason to bring Unions back. Too many people think only of Jimmy Hoffa and his Mob connections. The Mob infiltrated any place they could where they saw a place they could make money. We all know what happened to him. Well I guess we don't really but we know somebody did make him disappear. Hoffa gave Unions a bad name and you and I both know that the vast majority of Unions did a lot of good for millions of workers and their families because they were a group of organized citizens who could speak truth to power who would have otherwise ignored them and for many years did. My grandfathers were already working for the mining companies and railroad at a time when strike breakers were brought in and these men were hired henchmen with questionable pasts who thought nothing of beating up and on some occasions shooting and killing miners and threatening not only them but their wives and children. I have relatives who are represented by a wide variety of Unions today and I have been a Union member myself and I know that as an individual I would not have gotten the pay and benefits that I received and as you pointed out all workers have rights that were fought for and won by Unions and they should be thanking them for these things they take for granted today.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> Bravo Uyvonne. I loved your analogy. Hope it made him think.


damemary
Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
My Accent attracts some strange characters.
The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


I doubt that it is your accent that attracts strange characters. My guess that you attract strange people everywhere, because people with similar quirks attract each other


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


Other countries react to Americans too as think we are stupid because we don't know their ways so get off your soap box if people are so stupid here then why do you continue to live here? Why don't you return to your homeland?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


A foreign accent is an attention grabber, no question. My husband's Serbian accent is still very distinct and, in the wine industry in which he works, it's a definite plus. But people can never quite pin down which part of Europe he's from--the guesses ('Finland!') often make us laugh.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Those were the days,MIB, when as the saying went "As California goes so goes the nation".
> That is still true in many respects though it seems to me that the development of pockets of regressives in California have slowed that to some extent.
> After all, Cali is a huge segment of our economy and can be a driving force in many ways. The development of a floor for the civil rights for individuals with handicaps was definitely bottom up, with citizens recognizing and driving the need for fairness.


That's very true, jelum. I wouldn't say the situation is California is idyllic by any means, but for such a racially diverse state we have surprisingly few overt problems. It's been many years since I've heard anyone cut down publicly for being Latino--in fact, it's now almost impossible to imagine such a thing.

Still, you don't have to go far--only about twenty miles in fact, to the strawberry and artichoke fields that lie north and east of us--to see that a lot of problems remain. It's sobering to pass by and see Hispanic people working like machines in the fields, seven days a week.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> So well expressed, Cheeky!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No way can we allow unions to die out, or be reduced to shadows of their former selves. Now is the time to support unions even more than some have done lately. Complacency and lack of knowledge about the history of unionization in this country have to be counteracted. Unions may have to modify how they keep themselves alive to meet the present threats to their success, but it's sitll a matter of SOLIDARITY FOREVER. :!: :!: :-D


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No way can we allow unions to die out, or be reduced to shadows of their former selves. Now is the time to support unions even more than some have done lately. Complacency and lack of knowledge about the history of unionization in this country have to be counteracted. Unions may have to modify how they keep themselves alive to meet the present threats to their success, but it's sitll a matter of SOLIDARITY FOREVER. :!: :!: :-D


I cannot believe you are still on KP after the way you slammed DonnieK who is a very sweet person. Shame on you as you are your usual hateful self.

I don't read your posts any longer, but had to comment on your ugly words to DonnieK as people are supporting her in hoards. You should leave KP!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


My guess is that it's easier to repeat superstition than to learn.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No way can we allow unions to die out, or be reduced to shadows of their former selves. Now is the time to support unions even more than some have done lately. Complacency and lack of knowledge about the history of unionization in this country have to be counteracted. Unions may have to modify how they keep themselves alive to meet the present threats to their success, but it's sitll a matter of SOLIDARITY FOREVER. :!: :!: :-D


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No way can we allow unions to die out, or be reduced to shadows of their former selves. Now is the time to support unions even more than some have done lately. Complacency and lack of knowledge about the history of unionization in this country have to be counteracted. Unions may have to modify how they keep themselves alive to meet the present threats to their success, but it's sitll a matter of SOLIDARITY FOREVER. :!: :!: :-D


Absolutely. One real problem is that lifelong union members are aging--in 2011 23.3 percent were 55 years of age or older. These folks know better than anyone else how hard unions have had to fight for higher wages and better working conditions, and as they gradually leave the workforce the knowledge is lost with them.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Here is something to think about: Hiroshima 68 years after the bomb & Detroit 68 years later too!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely. One real problem is that lifelong union members are aging--in 2011 23.3 percent were 55 years of age or older. These folks know better than anyone else how hard unions have had to fight for higher wages and better working conditions, and as they gradually leave the workforce the knowledge is lost with them.


I know what you mean. My brother is 57. His particular union has a larger number of younger members than you cite, but it's still a union with a very noticeable aging membership.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I doubt that it is your accent that attracts strange characters. My guess that you attract strange people everywhere, because people with similar quirks attract each other


 :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :!:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> "Organized religion is hate masquerading as love." Great quote.


damemary
A fabulous observation it is and finally someone is brave enough to speak it out loud.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

damemary said:


> My guess is that it's easier to repeat superstition than to learn.


damemary
you see it is the limitations some have which I sometimes encounter. 
Often quite interesting but incredibly stupid.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's very true, jelum. I wouldn't say the situation is California is idyllic by any means, but for such a racially diverse state we have surprisingly few overt problems. It's been many years since I've heard anyone cut down publicly for being Latino--in fact, it's now almost impossible to imagine such a thing.
> 
> Still, you don't have to go far--only about twenty miles in fact, to the strawberry and artichoke fields that lie north and east of us--to see that a lot of problems remain. It's sobering to pass by and see Hispanic people working like machines in the fields, seven days a week.


susanmos2000
It is these workers who keep us in fresh food and their Masters who push hard against Immigration reform.
Keep these people in these working conditions to continue to enrich their Keepers.
Modern day Slavery. What and who attracted these People to come here?
It was not the working population.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Here is something to think about: Hiroshima 68 years after the bomb & Detroit 68 years later too!


Janeway
Excellent example how much progress can be made when a Nation unites and how it falls apart when it is divided.
May I applaud you for pointing this out.
I have seen such situations first hand again during my recent trip to Europe and it is heartbreaking to see what is happening here.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I doubt that it is your accent that attracts strange characters. My guess that you attract strange people everywhere, because people with similar quirks attract each other


(lovethelake's ugly attitude towards others)
Sorry Janeway that this person speaks ugly about others who speak with an Accent; mine is less than that of many of your Native American People.
Janeway also offends many KP Members from other Lands.
I wish to tell those that we Americans are fine People and are just suffering some Fools as lovethelake.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

I went to college at The University of Detroit in the early 70's. It was a very wealth city at that time. Recently I had to return to go to the funeral of one of my college pals and was appalled at how dilapidated the city had become. I could not even get a taxi to take me to the neighborhood where my friend's family lived. It was really scary!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Ingried said:


> (lovethelake's ugly attitude towards others)
> Sorry Janeway that this person speaks ugly about others who speak with an Accent; mine is less than that of many of your Native American People.
> Janeway also offends many KP Members from other Lands.
> I wish to tell those that we Americans are fine People and are just suffering some Fools as lovethelake.


Good morning, Ingried. I happen to think accents are quite charming. People who have learned the language but have an accent are quite accomplished. I lived in France many years ago and was quite fluent in French. People used to love my accent and could never guess what kind it was. I would hear "tres charmante" all the time.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm home for a few days and we're supposed to get pretty warm weather in the san Francisco Bay Area today. I'll be making this for dinner tonight. Just ask Al for an endorsement. :thumbup: 

The grand name comes from a friend who cant get enough of this salad. We always have it for lunch in hot weather when we get together at her place.

Camilles Absolutely Heavenly Watermelon Salad
(Makes a full meal for 4. Serve with a good french bread and butter.)

1. 2 cups finely shredded lettuce
2. 3/4 cups diced green onions
3. 3/4 cups diced cucumber
4. 1 small can sliced black olives
5, 3/4 cup finely crumbled Feta cheese
6. 3/4 cup chopped pecans
7. 1 ½ cup cooked chicken
8. 3 cups diced watermelon
9. Sprinkle about ½ tsp each of onion granules, garlic granules and 1 tsp crushed dried basil
10, Vinaigrette dressing to taste

The story about putting this together:
This salad might sound a little strange when you read the list of ingredients, but it works really well. So far everyone Ive served it to didnt believe it would be good when they just knew what went into it. After the first bite they were hooked. I often make it if Im having lunch with friends. 

Reduce or increase amounts of ingredients depending on how many people youll be serving. . 

Use your favorite lettuce, or spinach, or a combination of both. Ingredients 1-3 make up the green part of the salad. I prefer English or Persian cukes because you dont have to peel them and they are burpless.

This salad can be put together a while before you serve it, but dont put the watermelon in until its time to put the vinaigrette on and serve the salad.

This salad gives you a combination of many flavors, and is really entertaining for your tongue. Dicing the ingredients fairly finely, a little less that 1/2 inch, makes it possible to get most of the ingredients onto your fork at once.

I use dried herbs and spices a lot because I dont know what Ill make for lunch and dinner for my mother until pretty close to the time I fix them and the dried kind are easiest to use. I have a good source of excellent dried herbs and spices so I can get these things and know theyll taste very close to fresh. They also seem to work best with this salad.

Kens Light Balsamic Vinaigrette works well with this salad. Maybe I just like it because I used it the first time I made this and have just been too lazy to make my own or try another brand. Balsamic vinegar is definitely called for, however.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> We're supposed to get pretty warm weather in the san Francisco Bay Area today. Here's a recipe for a salad that serves 4. Just ask Al for an endorsement. :thumbup:
> 
> The grand name comes from a friend who cant get enough of this salad. We always have it for lunch in hot weather when we get together at her place.
> 
> ...


It is excellent!!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I went to college at The University of Detroit in the early 70's. It was a very wealth city at that time. Recently I had to return to go to the funeral of one of my college pals and was appalled at how dilapidated the city had become. I could not even get a taxi to take me to the neighborhood where my friend's family lived. It was really scary!


I know what you mean, Uyvonne. Downtown Vallejo took a major hit when the naval base on Mare Island closed in the 90s. It was positively depressing walking down that once thriving main street and seeing block after block of boarded-up shops. I don't believe there were more than three or four places in the whole area still open for business--it was like a plague had struck and carried everyone off.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> Excellent example how much progress can be made when a Nation unites and how it falls apart when it is divided.
> May I applaud you for pointing this out.
> I have seen such situations first hand again during my recent trip to Europe and it is heartbreaking to see what is happening here.


Guess you don't know anything about Detroit, you being a foreigner and all.

Detroit isn't a city divided; it has been under the management and control of one party rule for decades. Detroit has been governed and run solely by the Democrats for the past *sixty* years. The Democrats and unions are to blame for the failure of that city.

Very pertinent information to this thread since the recent discussion or at least what I've just read recently is about unions and their demise and failure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-leadership/wp/2013/07/19/what-killed-detroit-lets-not-forget-the-who/

BTW: Chicago and Pittsburg aren't far behind

Detroit is a great study for POV Liberal!!!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

quote from MIB
I'm sure what you say was true in a many areas during the polio epidemic. Great acts and relationships were forged in many places, just like the examples you give. Between that and the signing of the ADA there is also a long history of disabled people being warehoused in institurions and nursing homes, or confined to back bedrooms in their parents' homes because that was what the parents had to do to afford taking care of them, and their ultimate rebellion and fight to become first class citizens.

I personally knew the people who changed the condition of disabled people on this entire planet and especially here in the US. I'm really not exaggerating. There is a chunk of the history of the Disabled Rights Movement from about 1965-1976 that started as a grassroots movement at the University of California at Berkeley when one man, Ed Roberts, a post-polio respo-quad, which mens all 4 of his limbs abd his lungs were paralyzed. He intended to go to college and made damned sure he did. The University was forced to give him a replacement for dormitory housing in the University's campus hospital.

From that hospital "dorm" Ed and a few other severely physically disabled people founded the Physically Disabled Students' Program at Cal, and the PDSP went on to form the Center for Independent Living in Berkeley as people graduated from the U and wanted to live and work in their communities. Many of these noble pioneers are dead, but the truth that I'm telling here is not. 

Even today the goals those pioneers hope for haven't been fully realized. For example, only 30% of employable blind people have jobs. it is a point of pride for those who are employed to be "one of the 30".

See, you got another of my soapbox lectures. We both are talking about a large and complex history and what we both know to be true is part of a greater picture. I really enjopued reading your post and hope you enjoy what I've said here.


MIB I totally agree with all you have said and I know it is true. Also, you are correct that this is still a huge problem for many people who would love to be in the work force but are still not given the opportunity to be there. I worked for two years in a sheltered workshop doing payroll and taxes and one of my responsibilities was to explain paychecks to employees on paydays. It was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done. Some of our employees eventually learned how to read their check and spot if there was an error and others came to the office every payday and we would begin again at square one. I developed a lot more patience and people skills and it got to be something I looked forward to every other Friday. Things that most of us regard as normal presented big obstacles for a lot of these people. Even though they worked and had a job many of them still wanted to be out in an environment where they were not "sheltered" or seen as different. I know for some of these people even coming to the payroll office was fun to be on their own for a short time and taking care of their own business and there they were just another employee. So little to ask but sometimes so hard to get. Thanks for the great input MIB. Another area where we still have a ways to go.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> Excellent example how much progress can be made when a Nation unites and how it falls apart when it is divided.
> May I applaud you for pointing this out.
> I have seen such situations first hand again during my recent trip to Europe and it is heartbreaking to see what is happening here.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried said:


> (lovethelake's ugly attitude towards others)
> Sorry Janeway that this person speaks ugly about others who speak with an Accent; mine is less than that of many of your Native American People.
> Janeway also offends many KP Members from other Lands.
> I wish to tell those that we Americans are fine People and are just suffering some Fools as lovethelake.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, this kind of an aside to your post in reply to what I had to say about the history of the Disabled Rights Movement.

I worked at Williams-Sonoma in 1979 and 1980 when they had onlu 6 retail stores. I started in Order Processing during the '79 Christmas rush. Our file clerk was slightly mentally retarded and capable of filing huge piles of invoices in perfect numerical order. She was proud of herself. She was one of us, and do one acted like she was "different" in any way. It was rather the opposite. We almost worshipped her filing skills because we never had a problem finding an invoice. She left because she was going to have a baby. The filing was never done as well after she left.

This saddens and angers me because I believe ther's a place for many people with a variety of skills. I believe everyone is entitled to a job they can do well and can take pride in.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: No way can we allow unions to die out, or be reduced to shadows of their former selves. Now is the time to support unions even more than some have done lately. Complacency and lack of knowledge about the history of unionization in this country have to be counteracted. Unions may have to modify how they keep themselves alive to meet the present threats to their success, but it's sitll a matter of SOLIDARITY FOREVER. :!: :!: :-D


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's a version of the same throughout the area. The auto industry's history has been up and down, now trending up again. Why isn't there investment in the grand old cities?

Tell us your experience in the grand old cities, then and now. Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Buffalo, Syracuse......



Uyvonne said:


> I went to college at The University of Detroit in the early 70's. It was a very wealth city at that time. Recently I had to return to go to the funeral of one of my college pals and was appalled at how dilapidated the city had become. I could not even get a taxi to take me to the neighborhood where my friend's family lived. It was really scary!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds delicious on a hot day. Thanks for sharing.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm home for a few days and we're supposed to get pretty warm weather in the san Francisco Bay Area today. I'll be making this for dinner tonight. Just ask Al for an endorsement. :thumbup:
> 
> The grand name comes from a friend who cant get enough of this salad. We always have it for lunch in hot weather when we get together at her place.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same for many lovely areas in the 'Rust Belt' in the 1980's. It makes it obvious that the 'labor shift' has been going on a long time....as if families and whole communities move or lose all hope and try to stay in the homes they own and love.



susanmos2000 said:


> I know what you mean, Uyvonne. Downtown Vallejo took a major hit when the naval base on Mare Island closed in the 90s. It was positively depressing walking down that once thriving main street and seeing block after block of boarded-up shops. I don't believe there were more than three or four places in the whole area still open for business--it was like a plague had struck and carried everyone off.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And thank both Cheeky & MIB for sharing their personal experiences. This is how we all learn.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> quote from MIB
> I'm sure what you say was true in a many areas during the polio epidemic. Great acts and relationships were forged in many places, just like the examples you give. Between that and the signing of the ADA there is also a long history of disabled people being warehoused in institurions and nursing homes, or confined to back bedrooms in their parents' homes because that was what the parents had to do to afford taking care of them, and their ultimate rebellion and fight to become first class citizens.
> 
> I personally knew the people who changed the condition of disabled people on this entire planet and especially here in the US. I'm really not exaggerating. There is a chunk of the history of the Disabled Rights Movement from about 1965-1976 that started as a grassroots movement at the University of California at Berkeley when one man, Ed Roberts, a post-polio respo-quad, which mens all 4 of his limbs abd his lungs were paralyzed. He intended to go to college and made damned sure he did. The University was forced to give him a replacement for dormitory housing in the University's campus hospital.
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


Ingried, you are one of the brightest, best educated women I have ever had the pleasure to know. Ignorant people by there actions show that lack of education sadly often goes with people fearing and disliking what they don't understand and rather than learning and having a healthy curiosity that cause an inquiring mind to want to get to know people different from themselves they become bigots. I find this all to common in many Americans who see themselves as superior to all others. It is so much easier to label and mock what is different. To know you is to love and respect you and it is their loss that they do not know you and I say Vive la Difference, Es lebe die Differenz!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, this kind of an aside to your post in reply to what I had to say about the history of the Disabled Rights Movement.
> 
> I worked at Williams-Sonoma in 1979 and 1980 when they had onlu 6 retail stores. I started in Order Processing during the '79 Christmas rush. Our file clerk was slightly mentally retarded and capable of filing huge piles of invoices in perfect numerical order. She was proud of herself. She was one of us, and do one acted like she was "different" in any way. It was rather the opposite. We almost worshipped her filing skills because we never had a problem finding an invoice. She left because she was going to have a baby. The filing was never done as well after she left.
> 
> This saddens and angers me because I believe ther's a place for many people with a variety of skills. I believe everyone is entitled to a job they can do well and can take pride in.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I believe the same. Such pride enriches us all.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Sounds delicious on a hot day. Thanks for sharing.


There are a few cooking secrets I keep to myself, but I enjoy sharing too much to have very many secrets. A friend of mine says I can make a home out of whatever place I'm in, and that includes good food. That's a treasured compliment, too. Lucky me.:-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, this kind of an aside to your post in reply to what I had to say about the history of the Disabled Rights Movement.
> 
> I worked at Williams-Sonoma in 1979 and 1980 when they had onlu 6 retail stores. I started in Order Processing during the '79 Christmas rush. Our file clerk was slightly mentally retarded and capable of filing huge piles of invoices in perfect numerical order. She was proud of herself. She was one of us, and do one acted like she was "different" in any way. It was rather the opposite. We almost worshipped her filing skills because we never had a problem finding an invoice. She left because she was going to have a baby. The filing was never done as well after she left.
> 
> This saddens and angers me because I believe ther's a place for many people with a variety of skills. I believe everyone is entitled to a job they can do well and can take pride in.


So true MIB. We will finally be equal when we learn there is a place for everyone in our society and look at all others truly as we want others to see us as just another human being like we are and leave the labels at the door.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> It's a version of the same throughout the area. The auto industry's history has been up and down, now trending up again. Why isn't there investment in the grand old cities?
> 
> Tell us your experience in the grand old cities, then and now. Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Buffalo, Syracuse......


May I add my thoughts? I think one reason is that there is a turn in manufacturing. Detroit, Philadelphia and Cleveland were heavy into manufacturing. Plants have closed and some have relocated to less expensive locations.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you have any ideas for good cooking for one?



MaidInBedlam said:


> There are a few cooking secrets I keep to myself, but I enjoy sharing too much to have very many secrets. A friend of mine says I can make a home out of whatever place I'm in, and that includes good food. That's a treasured compliment, too. Lucky me.:-D


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Regional accents as well as international ones draw attention, some of it jingoistic. I think there's strong 'friend/foe', or 'them/us' wiring in our primitive brain that continually looks at others for signs of difference, in an effort to forestall some unknown attack. What they see in their mirrors is 'self' and therefore safe. People mock or attack what they fear or don't understand, and they can be quite ruthless about it. Somewhat on the same topic: I'm reading a book called:
AMERICAN NATIONS, by journalist Colin Woodward, which discusses the very different cultural nations within the North American family. Absolutely excellent! Stayed up till 2AM this morning starting a new knitting project am pretty foggy today. The first thing this AM, I ran in to see if it was still pretty... oh my, yes! Thank you Debbie Bliss!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sure, but didn't our uber-capitalist government provide tax incentives? What incentives came to the communities? Perhaps they did and I don't know about them or they weren't helpful. Why haven't corporations stepped in to take advantage of interstate highway connections?



GWPlver said:


> May I add my thoughts? I think one reason is that there is a turn in manufacturing. Detroit, Philadelphia and Cleveland were heavy into manufacturing. Plants have closed and some have relocated to less expensive locations.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sure, but didn't our uber-capitalist government provide tax incentives? What incentives came to the communities? Perhaps they did and I don't know about them or they weren't helpful. Why haven't corporations stepped in to take advantage of interstate highway connections?





damemary said:


> It's a version of the same throughout the area. The auto industry's history has been up and down, now trending up again. Why isn't there investment in the grand old cities?


You should invest in Detroit and Chicago - they need your funding.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Other countries react to Americans too as think we are stupid because we don't know their ways so get off your soap box if people are so stupid here then why do you continue to live here? Why don't you return to your homeland?


Janeway
I know you are unhappy about this but I am an American and am fortunate to be surrounded by Fellow Americans who are kind, caring, considerate, humane.
My issue is with people who absolutely refuse to widen their horizon and instead try to tear down others.
That is the very reason that some of us are not liked all too well in other lands because they are grandstanding with Sand under their feet.
Not a solid ground to stand on.

THIS IS MY COUNTRY - LAND THAT I LOVE.
Will always love my Country of birth.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Good morning, Ingried. I happen to think accents are quite charming. People who have learned the language but have an accent are quite accomplished. I lived in France many years ago and was quite fluent in French. People used to love my accent and could never guess what kind it was. I would hear "tres charmante" all the time.


alcameron
Those who have learned or would love to learn another tongue are always complimentary, those who are void of those skills or desires are a different story.
My Accent does not identify my place of origin since it is a mixture of a number of languages.
A certain Gender is usualy intrigued with the Accent, the other one often shows jealousy.
Not my problem.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> alcameron
> Those who have learned or would love to learn another tongue are always complimentary, those who are void of those skills or desires are a different story.
> My Accent does not identify my place of origin since it is a mixture of a number of languages.
> A certain Gender is usualy intrigued with the Accent, the other one often shows jealousy.
> Not my problem.


Good God, your humility, amazes.

BTW: your accent may not ID your place of origin but your words certainly do. Not my problem, yours though.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Perhaps real estate?? Probably some good opportunities out there.

Or why not relocate your businesses there.

Why doesn't o give Chicago a shot in the rear and spend a vacation there.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You should invest in Detroit and Chicago - they need your funding.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good God, your humility, amazes.
> 
> BTW: your accent may not ID your place of origin but your words certainly do. Not my problem, yours though.


I'm not sure what your second point means, but for goodness' sake take the beam out of your own eye regarding humility.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> BrattyPattey
> Republicans vs. Democrats:
> This is the finest example of our differences ever posted as well as the most accurate.
> Makes me proud to be not a Republican.
> A thank you going your way.


Since you used to be a Republican and you used to be a foreigner, you should see this best example of differences and more importantly, the truth in reporting.
You're very welcome.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ingried, you are one of the brightest, best educated women I have ever had the pleasure to know. Ignorant people by there actions show that lack of education sadly often goes with people fearing and disliking what they don't understand and rather than learning and having a healthy curiosity that cause an inquiring mind to want to get to know people different from themselves they become bigots. I find this all to common in many Americans who see themselves as superior to all others. It is so much easier to label and mock what is different. To know you is to love and respect you and it is their loss that they do not know you and I say Vive la Difference, Es lebe die Differenz!


Well, if Ingried is well educated then what about all of her hateful one liners as she posts a lot of them to others on KP?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Perhaps real estate?? Probably some good opportunities out there.
> 
> Or why not relocate your businesses there.
> 
> Why doesn't o give Chicago a shot in the rear and spend a vacation there.


Or better still, Obama should sell his Chicago home as he never goes there. He likes Martha's Vineyard and Hawaii better. Dame could buy Obama's family home and make it her own!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> I know you are unhappy about this but I am an American and am fortunate to be surrounded by Fellow Americans who are kind, caring, considerate, humane.
> My issue is with people who absolutely refuse to widen their horizon and instead try to tear down others.
> That is the very reason that some of us are not liked all too well in other lands because they are grandstanding with Sand under their feet.
> ...


When did you become a US citizen? As just a short tine ago you were not a citizen, but were enjoying all of the great perks of living in the US.

I don't stand on sand so you are wrong as this is just another one of your silly slurs so just zip it! I was born here which you were not.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Good God, your humility, amazes.
> 
> BTW: your accent may not ID your place of origin but your words certainly do. Not my problem, yours though.


knitpresentgifts
,,,,,,"thou shallt not call my name in vain". 
Check your Bible.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Or better still, Obama should sell his Chicago home as he never goes there. He likes Martha's Vineyard and Hawaii better. Dame could buy Obama's family home and make it her own!


Excellent idea as I feel he won't ever return to Chicago. I feel sorry for the people of Detroit as there are families who are struck there with no place for them to go as it is their home. The Democrats should be ashamed for not helping the city dwellers as they need help. Did I hear where the city filed for bankruptcy? It was once a thriving city where people were proud to call it home--but today--shame.

Talk about the homeless--they desperately need help.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> ,,,,,,"thou shallt not call my name in vain".
> Check your Bible.


False prophet:
check your comprehension Huck - you ain't got any

Thought you gave up believing years ago, well, that is what you posted anyway.

P.S. shallt = shallots? :XD:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> When did you become a US citizen? As just a short tine ago you were not a citizen, but were enjoying all of the great perks of living in the US.
> 
> I don't stand on sand so you are wrong as this is just another one of your silly slurs so just zip it! I was born here which you were not.


Janeway
Long, long before you changed your Heritage.
You have never known nor will ever know when I PROUDLY became a United States Citizen.
You are correct on one point, I was not born here. 
Freedom of speech is everyone's right, which you do not like I know.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> ,,,,,,"thou shallt not call my name in vain".
> Check your Bible.


She did not call your name in vain--you need glasses--magnifying ones at that! She does read the Bible daily--what do you do?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> False prophet:
> check your comprehension Huck - you ain't got any
> 
> Thought you gave up believing years ago, well, that is what your posted anyway.
> ...


knitpresentgifts
ancorau ludas infanajn ludoj


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> Long, long before you changed your Heritage.
> You have never known nor will ever know when I PROUDLY became a United States Citizen.
> You are correct on one point, I was not born here.
> Freedom of speech is everyone's right, which you do not like I know.


I never changed my heritage--just did not admit to being full blooded American Indian so if you mention it again, I will report you to Admin as you were kicked off once & I don't know how you weaseled you way back!

You are a racist!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> She did not call your name in vain--you need glasses--magnifying ones at that! She does read the Bible daily--what do you do?


She was born in Germany - is a naturalized citizen, learned English from a Russian. That is IF you can believe anything she posts.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> She did not call your name in vain--you need glasses--magnifying ones at that! She does read the Bible daily--what do you do?


Janeway
You need language and Bible lessons, it seems.
She posted: "Good God", go back and check.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresentgifts
> ancorau ludas infanajn ludoj


Oh, yes, dear Huck I forgot who you were on KP. I will google your words & if you are cursing I'll report you!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> You need language and Bible lessons, it seems.
> She posted: "Good God", go back and check.


That is a saying that nearly everyone uses--you are not up on the American lingo. You must catch-up if you are going to stay in the Us.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> False prophet:
> check your comprehension Huck - you ain't got any
> 
> Thought you gave up believing years ago, well, that is what your posted anyway.
> ...


knitpresengifts
I believe, just not in your messy Christianity.
There are over 300 Religions in this World you should know.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She was born in Germany - is a naturalized citizen, learned English from a Russian. That is IF you can believe anything she posts.


Yes, when Huck joined, Dame even said welcome back as I do know who you really are--so it is Ingried in hiding.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ingried, we have forgotten what we all promised.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> That is a saying that nearly everyone uses--you are not up on the American lingo. You must catch-up if you are going to stay in the Us.


Janeway
Strange way to excuse ill adherence to the Bible.
Am I staying in the US?
Take a guess.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> knitpresengifts
> I believe, just not in your messy Christianity.
> There are over 300 Religions in this World you should know.


Well, then you should select one religion & stick to their teachings & you will become a better person.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

The best answer to ignorance is silance. Please, lets not answer them. It accomplishes nothing.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Ingried, we have forgotten what we all promised.


Hello, what did she promise? Looks as if she completely forgot. How are you these days? Still on here posting but what are on your needles?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> Janeway
> You need language and Bible lessons, it seems.
> She posted: "Good God", go back and check.


God _ is _ good - always! :thumbup: Go back and read your Bible.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> The best answer to ignorance is silance. Please, lets not answer them. It accomplishes nothing.


Sounds good to me when do we start not answering them?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

It's amusing that today's GOP is so sadly lacking in any leadership that they don't even have one viable candidate to run for President in the next election only a motley assortment of Tea Party wanna be's and it would be laughable if it weren't so sad that they try to claim Dr. King as there own. In a speech made by Dr. King he said he was neither a Republican nor a Democrat. Please refrain from publishing lies on this thread. Lying only reflects badly on the person doing so and they already have a very bad reputation on all of KP. Word to the wise, sometimes it is better to quit while you are ahead alas the liar is not wise so will be our cross to bear on this thread. Please refrain from feeding the animals. They may bite.


NO MARTIN LUTHER KING,JR WAS NOT A REPUBLICAN, BUT HERE IS WHAT HE THOUGHT OF THEM

BY JUDD LEGUM ON AUGUST 28, 2013 AT 9:59 AM
Think Progress.com

Most people dont talk about the fact that Martin Luther King was a Republican.
Thats a quote from Ada Fisher, a Republican National Committeewoman from North Carolina, that was published without qualification or correction this week by ABC News.
Fisher is wrong on two fronts. First, many people talk about the fact that King was a Republican. It is asserted incessantly by conservatives on Twitter and elsewhere on the internet, especially in the lead up to todays 50th anniversary of the March on Washington. The claim is most prominently advanced by Kings niece, Republican activist Alveda King. Over the years, conservative groups have purchased billboards making the claim.
Second, Martin Luther King Jr. was not a Republican. Or a Democrat.
King was not a partisan and never endorsed any political candidate. In a 1958 interview, King said I dont think the Republican party is a party full of the almighty God nor is the Democratic party. They both have weaknesses  And Im not inextricably bound to either party.
King did, however, weigh in on the Republican party during his lifetime. In Chapter 23 of his autobiography, King writes this about the 1964 Republican National Convention:
The Republican Party geared its appeal and program to racism, reaction, and extremism. All people of goodwill viewed with alarm and concern the frenzied wedding at the Cow Palace of the KKK with the radical right. The best man at this ceremony was a senator whose voting record, philosophy, and program were anathema to all the hard-won achievements of the past decade.
Senator Goldwater had neither the concern nor the comprehension necessary to grapple with this problem of poverty in the fashion that the historical moment dictated. On the urgent issue of civil rights, Senator Goldwater represented a philosophy that was morally indefensible and socially suicidal. While not himself a racist, Mr. Goldwater articulated a philosophy which gave aid and comfort to the racist. His candidacy and philosophy would serve as an umbrella under which extremists of all stripes would stand. In the light of these facts and because of my love for America, I had no alternative but to urge every ***** and white person of goodwill to vote against Mr. Goldwater and to withdraw support from any Republican candidate that did not publicly disassociate himself from Senator Goldwater and his philosophy.
King barnstormed the country on behalf on Johnson in 1964, maintaining only a thin veneer of nonpartisanship, according to biographer Nick Kotz. King called Johnsons win a great victory for the forces of progress and a defeat for the forces of retrogress.
Here is what King had to say about Ronald Reagan, the hero of modern Republicans:
When a Hollywood performer, lacking distinction even as an actor can become a leading war hawk candidate for the Presidency, only the irrationalities induced by a war psychosis can explain such a melancholy turn of events.
David Garrow, who wrote a Pulitzer Prize winning biography of King, stated Its simply incorrect to call Dr. King a Republican.
King, according to Garrow, did hold some Republicans  including Richard Nixon and Nelson Rockefeller  in high regard. He also was harshly critical of Lyndon Johnsons escalation of the Vietnam War.
In 2008, Kings son Martin Luther King III said It is disingenuous to imply that my father was a Republican. He never endorsed any presidential candidate, and there is certainly no evidence that he ever even voted for a Republican. Garrow claimed there is little doubt King voted for Kennedy in 1960 and


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, dear Huck I forgot who you were on KP. I will google your words & if you are cursing I'll report you!


She's not ...


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> knitpresengifts
> I believe, just not in your messy Christianity.
> There are over 300 Religions in this World you should know.


There is only one Faith I follow and only one God I should know. I know of multiple other religions and have even studied several of them and visited their historical places of worship around the world. Alas, I have no desire to know or follow those teachings. I'll leave those all to you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Ingried said:


> knitpresengifts
> I believe, just not in your messy Christianity.
> There are over 300 Religions in this World you should know.


Well, Duesseldorf! You are darn right criminal, lying in the name of God as you just did here.

Here's your post back in Jan 2012. Glad to hear you're back on track or at least trying to be.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Hello, what did she promise? Looks as if she completely forgot. How are you these days? Still on here posting but what are on your needles?


She never promised anything - it is beneath and beyond her.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

The GOP has turned its back on Reagan and Lincoln Republican heroes of yesteryear would be personas non grata in today's increasingly radical party By Paul Brandus | January 28, 2013

The Week.com

Paul Brandus T
o borrow the name of one of the better movies of the '90s, the Republican Party needs a few good men (and women) who can tell the truth about today's GOP. But for many rank-and-file Republicans, engaging with reality may be very difficult. As the tough-as-nails Marine colonel (played to perfection by Jack Nicholson) bellowed: "You can't handle the truth!"

Indeed, the Republican Party is now so badly out of touch with the majority of voters, and so far to the right with most of its policies, that it can no longer be considered the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower, Nixon, Reagan, and the first George Bush. In some respects, it has even moved beyond George W. In doing so, it has shunned its rich past and dismissed the legacies of its greatest heroes. All of those Republican presidents did things, reasonable things, that would render them toxic and unelectable with today's unreasonable, untethered-from-reality brand of Republicans.

Here's some truth: In November, Republicans lost women by 11 points, voters between 18 and 29 by 23 points, and voters between 30 and 44 by 7 points. Who did the GOP win? Those closest to death. They won the 45 to 64 group by 4 points and those 65 and older by 12.

In an age in which education is more important for securing decent employment than ever before, Republicans generally did best among voters with the least education, and poorest among those with the most. They won conservative voters by an overwhelming margin, but that's only one-third of the electorate. They lost the other two-thirds  moderates and liberals  by wide margins. They cruised among people who go to church at least once a week, but that group is just two-fifths of the electorate; it wasn't close among the other three-fifths. They lost the youngest, and fastest-growing, voter bloc  Latinos  by 44 points, even worse than the 36-point embarrassment of 2008.

Demographics are moving against Republicans, and conservatives are going to have to change their tune if they want to better identify with the citizenry of tomorrow.

Republicans: Pick up a history book. Study the centrist, level-headed, cooperative inclusiveness of past GOP presidents. If you can handle the truth, here are some of the things they did that endeared them to voters:

* Ronald Reagan supported an assault weapons ban, the Brady Bill on background checks and, in 1986, signed the Firearm Owners Protection Act, which was hailed by gun rights activists for its numerous protections for gun owners. But it also banned ownership of any fully automatic rifles that weren't already registered on the day the law was signed.

* Reagan was the first cap-and-trade president, using the concept to attack unleaded gasoline and pollutants that cause acid rain.

* Reagan's 1986 Tax Reform Act cut taxes for individuals (by shifting the burden to businesses) to the tune, in 2012 dollars, of $750 billion. He also signed off on higher gasoline taxes and jacked up taxes on investment income. What a socialist!

* Richard Nixon, one of Reagan's mentors, signed off on the 1969 Tax Reform Act, which cut taxes for the vast majority of Americans, but also created the dreaded Alternative Minimum Tax, designed to make sure that rich folks pay, as Barack Obama says, their fair share.

* Nixon created the Environmental Protection Agency, which has worked for 40 years to  egads!  make sure the water you drink and air you breathe are clean.

* Dwight Eisenhower supported big government spending on infrastructure programs, notably the interstate highway system.

* The former five-star general, who led the D-Day invasion of France, also warned in his last speech to the nation in 1961 that military spending was too big and threatened the health of the U.S. economy.

* Abraham Lincoln asked Congress for the first-ever income tax in 1861  a 3 percent tax on income  to help finance the Civil War. Lincoln believed that Americans should pay for their wars as they fought them. What a concept.

None of these ideas would pass muster in today's Republican Party. Today's GOP, inexplicably, has turned its back on these heroes, denied its own history, buried its collective head in the sand. This isn't your grandfather's Republican Party. It's not even your father's Republican Party. It's something else entirely, and should have a new name: perhaps the "Know-Nothing Party" of the 1850s fits the bill. The Know-Nothing Party was formed to oppose immigration and to guard against what was perceived in the day as a threat to the economic and political security of white-Protestant America. Sound familiar?

Unfortunately, next to no one in the Republican Party (or whatever it should be called today) is speaking these truths. Bobby Jindal, the Oxford-educated Louisiana governor, dipped a toe in the water last week when he said the GOP "must stop being the stupid party." He added: "The Republican Party does not need to change our principles  but we might need to change just about everything else we do."

Finally, some truth. But in a broader sense Jindal's criticism was muted: "I am not one of those who believe we should moderate, equivocate, or otherwise abandon our principles," he said. Jindal's comments can be seen as trying to nudge, as opposed to shove, a chastened party toward the center, where elections are won.

But can Republicans accept even this mild rebuke from one of their own? Many seem to live in an alternative universe, consuming content from only a handful of media outlets that tell them only what they want to hear. This meets the classic definition of bias, yet it's everything else that's slanted in their world view. Facts don't matter. Data and science? Irrelevant.

It is this detachment from reality that is killing the party of Lincoln, Eisenhower, and Reagan. If the GOP is to survive, its leaders must not only handle the truth  but act on it.


***********************************************

WED MAR 13, 2013 AT 08:01 AM PDT
Republicans turned down invite to screen Lincoln at White House with Obama and Spielberg
byJed LewisonFollow Daily Kos

Watch Lincoln at White House with Steven Spielberg, President Obama, and Daniel Day-Lewis? Ewww! Gross!
Look, I'm sick and tired of the cynical skepticism coming from people outside of Washington, D.C. about the impact of President Barack Obama's charm offensive. Here's the fact: It really is a big deal that Obama is finally at long last reaching out to Republicans on Capitol Hill. After monthsyears, actuallyof doing nothing except farting in their general direction, he's finally willing to treat them like human beings and have a conservation with them about why he should do things their way now that he's won the election.
It's either that, or:

For all the attention to President Obamas new campaign of outreach to Republicans, it was four months ago  on the eve of bipartisan budget talks  that he secretly invited five of them to the White House for a movie screening with the stars of Lincoln, the film about that presidents courtship of Congress to pass a significant measure.
None accepted.

Hmm. And why did none of them accept?
The five Republicans invitees, including Mr. Boehner and Mr. McConnell, sent regrets; aides cited the lateness of the invitation and the leaders commitments on Capitol Hill.
The invite wasn't too late, however, for all but one of the five Democrats who were invited. And given the special guests who attended the screening, it's not hard to see why:
Four of the five Democrats who were invited, including both party leaders  Senator Harry Reid of Nevada and Representative Nancy Pelosi of California  did make it, joining not only Mr. Obama but the films director, Steven Spielberg; its screenwriter, Tony Kushner; and the actors Daniel Day-Lewis, Sally Field, Tommy Lee Jones and James Spader.
So to put this in perspective, President Obama invited five Republicans to a White House screening of Lincoln attended by Steven Spielberg, Daniel Day-Lewis, Sally Field, Tommy Lee Jones, and James Spaderand not a single one of them accepted his invitation.
Clearly, the big question here is this: How in the world did President Barack Obama become such an a--h--- that Republicans couldn't even bring themselves to accept an invitation like that?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> WED MAR 13, 2013 AT 08:01 AM PDT
> Republicans turned down invite to screen Lincoln at White House with Obama and Spielberg
> byJed LewisonFollow Daily Kos
> 
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
thank you for your postings. Do we really care anymore how they behave? They have exposed their bad behavior to the whole World.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

... "Dr. King believed that everybody was capable of enjoying God's redemptive powers. He did not attack his enemies. Like Abraham Lincoln, he believed that the best way to destroy your enemy is to make him your friend. 

And Dr. King was motivated by the best traditions of the black community, in that he believed that personal conduct was important. But we saw the decline of the black community occur precisely at a time when we had the greatest opportunity. "


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Hello, what did she promise? Looks as if she completely forgot. How are you these days? Still on here posting but what are on your needles?


Hello Janeway, thank you for asking. The promise is unimportant, the body is not great, and I've just started for the umpteenth time a cashmere sweater for a friend. I hope your health is holding up.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

It should come as no surprise that Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican. 

In that era, almost all black Americans were Republicans. Why? From its founding in 1854 as the anti-slavery party until today, the Republican Party has championed freedom and civil rights for blacks. 
And as one pundit so succinctly stated, the Democrat Party is as it always has been, the party of the four Ss: slavery, secession, segregation and now socialism.

It was the Democrats who fought to keep blacks in slavery and passed the discriminatory Black Codes and Jim Crow laws. The Democrats started the Ku Klux Klan to lynch and terrorize blacks. The Democrats fought to prevent the passage of every civil rights law beginning with the civil rights laws of the 1860s, and continuing with the civil rights laws of the 1950s and 1960s.

During the civil rights era of the 1960s, Dr. King was fighting the Democrats who stood in the school house doors, turned skin-burning fire hoses on blacks and let loose vicious dogs. It was Republican President Dwight Eisenhower who pushed to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1957 and sent troops to Arkansas to desegregate schools. President Eisenhower also appointed Chief Justice Earl Warren to the U.S. Supreme Court, which resulted in the 1954 Brown v. Board of Education decision ending school segregation. 

Given the circumstances of that era, it is understandable why Dr. King was a Republican. It was the Republicans who fought to free blacks from slavery and amended the Constitution to grant blacks freedom (13th Amendment), citizenship (14th Amendment) and the right to vote (15th Amendment). Republicans passed the civil rights laws of the 1860s, including the Civil Rights Act of 1866 and the Reconstruction Act of 1867 that was designed to establish a new government system in the Democrat-controlled South, one that was fair to blacks. 

Republicans also started the NAACP and affirmative action with Republican President Richard Nixons 1969 Philadelphia Plan (crafted by black Republican Art Fletcher) that set the nations fist goals and timetables. Although affirmative action now has been turned by the Democrats into an unfair quota system, affirmative action was begun by Nixon to counter the harm caused to blacks when Democrat President Woodrow Wilson in 1912 kicked all of the blacks out of federal government jobs.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's amusing that today's GOP is so sadly lacking in any leadership that they don't even have one viable candidate to run for President in the next election only a motley assortment of Tea Party wanna be's and it would be laughable if it weren't so sad that they try to claim Dr. King as there own. In a speech made by Dr. King he said he was neither a Republican nor a Democrat.


Thanks, Cheeky, for posting the facts.

One interesting point: I wonder if some people are confusing MLK with his father, Martin Luther King _ senior _ [born Michael King]? The senior King was in fact a staunch Republican for many years. He only changed his party affiliation in 1960, when Robert Kennedy helped secure his son's release from jail after a sit-in.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Actually King senior was a very great man in his own right. Two tales related by his son:

In his autobiography, King Jr. remembered his father leaving a shoe shop because he and his son were asked to change seats. "This was the first time I had seen Dad so furious. That experience revealed to me at a very early age that my father had not adjusted to the system, and he played a great part in shaping my conscience. I still remember walking down the street beside him as he muttered, 'I don't care how long I have to live with this system, I will never accept it.'

Another story related by Martin Luther King, Jr. was that once the car his father was driving was stopped by a police officer, and the officer addressed the senior King as "boy". King pointed to his son, saying "This is a boy, I'm a man; until you call me one, I will not listen to you."


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Do not engage...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter
I rely on you for certain and correct information.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Hi everyone -- I thought there was some hope of ignoring the nastiness on this thread-- I have been off line except for the workshops for the past 3 or 4 days due to an unexpected medical problem and have just caught up reading .

It was a good idea -- but the nastiness and personal insults are still pervasive. I guess the promises made were not realistic and certainly fell by the wayside. 

Have a great day everyone -- Janeway will continue threatening to report people, Knitting presents will continue to insult -- people on the left will answer the insults by insulting replies and nothing changes. 

I wish you well., Cheeky -- you tried - it just wasn't meant to be I guess. 

Carry on! and Goodbye


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> thank you for your postings. Do we really care anymore how they behave? They have exposed their bad behavior to the whole World.


What you say is true. It is best to ignore ill mannered people. All others know who they are and that they are just troublesome interlopers on the thread. I feel sorry for them. As Sheldon would describe them, "Needy babies, Greedy babies" and to think they are grown women. 
This has been a Public Service Announcement. Cheeky Blighter
(any comments or concerns please feel free to send a PM c/o
Cheeky Blighter)


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Extinction is the most effective way to eliminate undesirable behavior, although it is not the easiest way to deal with problem behaviors. Punishment is the old fall back position, but rather than eliminating the behavior, it drives it underground, to pop up whenever the punisher is gone or removed.

Extinction requires ignoring or redirecting the target behavior. Research has shown it to be the most effective and permanent way to change problem behavior.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- I thought there was some hope of ignoring the nastiness -- I have been off line except for the workshops for the past 3 or 4 days, and have just caught up.
> 
> It was a good idea -- but the nastiness and personal insults are still pervasive. I guess the promises made were not realistic and certainly not followed.
> 
> ...


I am with you Shirley. I can take only so much of it and then have to stay away.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

So sorry to see this fascinating thread misdirected by a need to defend against ridiculous postings. They win, we lose when we engage. How sad is that?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- I thought there was some hope of ignoring the nastiness -- I have been off line except for the workshops for the past 3 or 4 days, and have just caught up.
> 
> It was a good idea -- but the nastiness and personal insults are still pervasive. I guess the promises made were not realistic and certainly not followed.
> 
> ...


Thanks for stopping by Shirley. You see all the usual suspects and it is sad that we are being bombarded by the right who have no desire to have any friendly interaction. There have been a couple of sincere attempts from both sides but the same characters keep trying to destroy the thread and all we can do is try to ignore the negative rhetoric. It's sad it has to be this way but it is what it is and we will carry on as best we can. For the most part we are having very nice informative conversations but this morning a certain group have decided to carpet bomb the site. It is like the London Blitz by the Nazi air force and the people of London hung in there and saved their city and we will save this thread for all the people of good faith. They will never destroy us. I understand your feelings and respect you very much dear and we will all try to do the best we can. Cheeky


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

midwegian said:


> So sorry to see this fascinating thread misdirected by a need to defend against ridiculous postings. They win, we lose when we engage. How sad is that?


I apologize for the double post. I agree with you that it is sooo sad-- it was a great idea -- but everyone has to be involved --some are not interested in giving up the nastiness - on both sides. anyway-- for those who really tried, I applaud you, for those who ignored the hope of this thread -- it is sad. so,, as I said before, Carry on and keep on fighting. There will be lots of nastiness coming your way so enjoy the battle.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

midwegian said:


> So sorry to see this fascinating thread misdirected by a need to defend against ridiculous postings. They win, we lose when we engage. How sad is that?


midwegian - you are right and I hope people can ignore the ridiculous posts. Sometimes people can be overwhelmed by the pointless attacks that are being posted and I ask all once again to not even acknowledge any of this. I am not leaving and I hope the rest of you will stay. A handful of folks want to seize control of this thread and if you must do battle with them take it else where. I ask this of all parties, left or right. We do not want any bad behavior from anyone here. Thanks, Cheeky


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for stopping by Shirley. You see all the usual suspects and it is sad that we are being bombarded by the right who have no desire to have any friendly interaction. There have been a couple of sincere attempts from both sides but the same characters keep trying to destroy the thread and all we can do is try to ignore the negative rhetoric. It's sad it has to be this way but it is what it is and we will carry on as best we can. For the most part we are having very nice informative conversations but this morning a certain group have decided to carpet bomb the site. It is like the London Blitz by the Nazi air force and the people of London hung in there and saved their city and we will save this thread for all the people of good faith. They will never destroy us. I understand your feelings and respect you very much dear and we will all try to do the best we can. Cheeky


The thing is that the nasty posts can be ignored -- but it has to be by everyone- one or two people sink this thread because one or two people won't ignore their nastiness. 
They win, you lose -- soo sad. I wish you well.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I apologize for the double post. I agree with you that it is sooo sad-- it was a great idea -- but everyone has to be involved --some are not interested in giving up the nastiness - on both sides. anyway-- for those who really tried, I applaud you, for those who ignored the hope of this thread -- it is sad. so,, as I said before, Carry on and keep on fighting. There will be lots of nastiness coming your way so enjoy the battle.


Shirley - I respect and understand your feelings and I have respectfully asked all to leave the thread who do not want to have civil discussions and for those of us who stay to ignore the nastiness around us. There is no reason to abandon this thread to those who wish to destroy it. They are no better than any other tyrants and people should not let such people have their way. Where would the world be if we all gave up. I appreciate your effort but as you know the only people who even attempted to "get along" were from the left and one from the right. We are just a microcosm of the world around us and we all know what a mess that is in. We will carry on not because we can but because we must and I will do so as kindly as I can and letting go of the rest.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Shirley - I respect and understand your feelings and I have respectfully asked all to leave the thread who do not want to have civil discussions and for those of us who stay to ignore the nastiness around us. There is no reason to abandon this thread to those who wish to destroy it. They are no better than any other tyrants and people should not let such people have their way. Where would the world be if we all gave up. I appreciate your effort but as you know the only people who even attempted to "get along" were from the left and one from the right. We are just a microcosm of the world around us and we all know what a mess that is in. We will carry on not because we can but because we must and I will do so as kindly as I can and letting go of the rest.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh yes, the glorious Reagan years.



damemary said:


> Same for many lovely areas in the 'Rust Belt' in the 1980's. It makes it obvious that the 'labor shift' has been going on a long time....as if families and whole communities move or lose all hope and try to stay in the homes they own and love.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

2013 Encyclopædia Britannica

The Democratic Party

Slavery and the Emergence of the Bipartisan System

From 1828 to 1856 the Democrats won all but two presidential elections (1840 and 1848). During the 1840s and 50s, however, the Democratic Party, as it officially named itself in 1844, suffered serious internal strains over the issue of extending slavery to the Western territories. Southern Democrats, led by Jefferson Davis, wanted to allow slavery in all the territories, while Northern Democrats, led by Stephen A. Douglas, proposed that each territory should decide the question for itself through referendum. The issue split the Democrats at their 1860 presidential convention, where Southern Democrats nominated John C. Breckinridge and Northern Democrats nominated Douglas. The 1860 election also included John Bell, the nominee of the Constitutional Union Party, and Abraham Lincoln, the candidate of the newly established (1854) antislavery Republican Party (which was unrelated to Jeffersons Republican Party of decades earlier). With the Democrats hopelessly split, Lincoln was elected president with only about 40 percent of the national vote; in contrast, Douglas and Breckinridge won 29 percent and 18 percent of the vote, respectively.

The election of 1860 is regarded by most political observers as the first of the countrys three critical electionscontests that produced sharp yet enduring changes in party loyalties across the country. (Some scholars also identify the 1824 election as a critical election.) It established the Democratic and Republican parties as the major parties in what was ostensibly a two-party system. In federal elections from the 1870s to the 1890s, the parties were in rough balanceexcept in the South, where the Democrats dominated because most whites blamed the Republican Party for both the American Civil War (186165) and the Reconstruction (186577) that followed; the two parties controlled Congress for almost equal periods through the rest of the 19th century, though the Democratic Party held the presidency only during the two terms of Grover Cleveland (188589 and 189397). Repressive legislation and physical intimidation designed to prevent newly enfranchised African Americans from votingdespite passage of the Fifteenth Amendmentensured that the South would remain staunchly Democratic for nearly a century (see black code). During Clevelands second term, however, the United States sank into an economic depression. The party at this time was basically conservative and agrarian-oriented, opposing the interests of big business (especially protective tariffs) and favouring cheap-money policies, which were aimed at maintaining low interest rates.

A Difficult Transition to Progressivism

In the countrys second critical election, in 1896, the Democrats split disastrously over the free-silver and Populist program of their presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan. Bryan lost by a wide margin to Republican William McKinley, a conservative who supported high tariffs and money based only on gold. From 1896 to 1932 the Democrats held the presidency only during the two terms of Woodrow Wilson (191321), and even Wilsons presidency was considered somewhat of a fluke. Wilson won in 1912 because the Republican vote was divided between President William Howard Taft (the official party nominee) and former Republican president Theodore Roosevelt, the candidate of the new Bull Moose Party. Wilson championed various progressive economic reforms, including the breaking up of business monopolies and broader federal regulation of banking and industry. Although he led the United States into World War I to make the world safe for democracy, Wilsons brand of idealism and internationalism proved less attractive to voters during the spectacular prosperity of the 1920s than the Republicans frank embrace of big business. The Democrats lost decisively the presidential elections of 1920, 1924, and 1928.

The New Deal Coalition

The countrys third critical election, in 1932, took place in the wake of the stock market crash of 1929 and in the midst of the Great Depression. Led by Franklin D. Roosevelt, the Democrats not only regained the presidency but also replaced the Republicans as the majority party throughout the countryin the North as well as the South. Through his political skills and his sweeping New Deal social programs, such as social security and the statutory minimum wage, Roosevelt forged a broad coalitionincluding small farmers, Northern city dwellers, organized labour, European immigrants, liberals, intellectuals, and reformersthat enabled the Democratic Party to retain the presidency until 1952 and to control both houses of Congress for most of the period from the 1930s to the mid-1990s. Roosevelt was reelected in 1936, 1940, and 1944; he was the only president to be elected to more than two terms. Upon his death in 1945 he was succeeded by his vice president, Harry S. Truman, who was narrowly elected in 1948.

The Civil Rights Era

Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower, the supreme Allied commander during World War II, won overwhelming victories against Democrat Adlai E. Stevenson in the presidential elections of 1952 and 1956. The Democrats regained the White House in the election of 1960, when John F. Kennedy narrowly defeated Eisenhowers vice president, Richard M. Nixon. The Democrats championing of civil rights and racial desegregation under Truman, Kennedy, and especially Lyndon B. Johnsonwho secured passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965cost the party the traditional allegiance of many of its Southern supporters. Although Johnson defeated Republican Barry M. Goldwater by a landslide in 1964, his national support waned because of bitter opposition to the Vietnam War, and he chose not to run for reelection. Following the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy in 1968, the party nominated Johnsons vice president, Hubert H. Humphrey, at a fractious convention in Chicago that was marred by violence outside the hall between police and protesters. Meanwhile, many Southern Democrats supported the candidacy of Alabama Governor George C. Wallace, an opponent of federally mandated racial integration. In the 1968 election Humphrey was soundly defeated by Nixon in the electoral college (among Southern states Humphrey carried only Texas), though he lost the popular vote by only a narrow margin.

From Watergate to a New Millennium

From 1972 to 1988 the Democrats lost four of five presidential elections. In 1972 the party nominated antiwar candidate George S. McGovern, who lost to Nixon in one of the biggest landslides in U.S. electoral history. Two years later the Watergate scandal forced Nixons resignation, enabling Jimmy Carter, then the Democratic governor of Georgia, to defeat Gerald R. Ford, Nixons successor, in 1976. Although Carter orchestrated the Camp David Accords between Egypt and Israel, his presidency was plagued by a sluggish economy and by the crisis over the kidnapping and prolonged captivity of U.S. diplomats in Iran following the Islamic revolution there in 1979. Carter was defeated in 1980 by conservative Republican Ronald W. Reagan, who was easily reelected in 1984 against Carters vice president, Walter F. Mondale. Mondales running mate, Geraldine A. Ferraro, was the first female candidate on a major-party ticket. Reagans vice president, George Bush, defeated Massachusetts Governor Michael S. Dukakis in 1988. Despite its losses in the presidential elections of the 1970s and 80s, the Democratic Party continued to control both houses of Congress for most of the period (although the Republicans controlled the Senate from 1981 to 1987).

In 1992 Arkansas Governor Bill Clinton recaptured the White House for the Democrats by defeating Bush and third-party candidate Ross Perot. Clintons support of international trade agreements (e.g., the North American Free Trade Agreement) and his willingness to cut spending on social programs to reduce budget deficits alienated the left wing of his party and many traditional supporters in organized labour. In 1994 the Democrats lost control of both houses of Congress, in part because of public disenchantment with Clintons health care plan. During Clintons second term the country experienced a period of prosperity not seen since the 1920s, but a scandal involving Clintons relationship with a White House intern led to his impeachment by the House of Representatives in 1998; he was acquitted by the Senate in 1999. Al Gore, Clintons vice president, easily won the Democratic presidential nomination in 2000. In the general election, Gore won 500,000 more popular votes than Republican George W. Bush but narrowly lost in the electoral college after the Supreme Court of the United States ordered a halt to the manual recounting of disputed ballots in Florida. The partys nominee in 2004, John Kerry, was narrowly defeated by Bush in the popular and electoral vote.

Aided by the growing opposition to the Iraq War (200311), the Democrats regained control of the Senate and the House following the 2006 midterm elections. This marked the first time in some 12 years that the Democrats held a majority in both houses of Congress. In the general election of 2008 the partys presidential nominee, Barack Obama, defeated Republican John McCain, thereby becoming the first African American to be elected president of the United States. The Democrats also increased their majority in the Senate and the House. The party scored another victory in mid-2009, when an eight-month legal battle over one of Minnesotas Senate seats concluded with the election of Al Franken, a member of the states Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party. With Franken in office, Democrats in the Senate (supported by the chambers two independents) would be able to exercise a filibuster-proof 6040 majority. In January 2010 the Democrats lost this filibuster-proof majority when the Democratic candidate lost the special election to fill the unexpired term of Ted Kennedy following his death.

The Democrats dominance of Congress proved short-lived, as a swing of some 60 seats (the largest since 1948) returned control of the House to the Republicans in the 2010 midterm election. The Democrats held on to their majority in the Senate, though that majority also was dramatically reduced. Many of the Democrats who had come into office in the 2006 and 2010 elections were defeated, but so too were a number of longtime officeholders; incumbents felt the sting of an electorate that was anxious about the struggling economy and high unemployment. The election also was widely seen as a referendum on the policies of the Obama administration, which were vehemently opposed by a populist upsurge in and around the Republican Party known as the Tea Party movement.

The Democratic Party fared better in the 2012 general election, with Obama defeating his Republican opponent, Mitt Romney. The 2012 election did not change significantly the distribution of power between the two main parties in Congress. While the Democrats retained their majority in the Senate, they were unable to retake the House of Representatives.


Policy and Structure

Despite tracing its roots to Thomas Jeffersonwho advocated a less-powerful, more-decentralized federal governmentthe modern Democratic Party generally supports a strong federal government with powers to regulate business and industry in the public interest; federally financed social services and benefits for the poor, the unemployed, the aged, and other groups; and the protection of civil rights. Most Democrats also endorse a strong separation of church and state, and they generally oppose government regulation of the private, noneconomic lives of citizens. Regarding foreign policy, Democrats tend to prefer internationalism and multilateralismi.e., the execution of foreign policy through international institutions such as the United Nationsover isolationism and unilateralism. However, because the party is highly decentralized (as is the Republican Party), it encompasses a wide variety of opinion on certain issues. Although most Democrats favour affirmative action and gun control, for example, some moderate and conservative Democrats oppose those policies or give them only qualified support.



Both the Democratic Party and the Republican Party formulate their platforms quadrennially at national conventions, which are held to nominate the parties presidential candidates. The conventions take place in the summer of each presidential election year; by tradition, the incumbent party holds its convention second. The Democratic National Convention is typically attended by some 4,000 delegates, most of whom are selected during the preceding winter and spring. So-called superdelegates, which include members of the Democratic National Committee (the partys formal governing body) as well as Democratic governors and members of Congress, also participate.

Until the 1970s, few nationwide rules governed the selection of delegates to the Democratic National Convention. After the 1968 convention, during which Humphrey was able to secure the Democratic nomination without having won a single primary election or caucus, the party imposed strict rules requiring that states select delegates through primaries or caucuses and that delegates vote on the first ballot for the candidate to whom they are pledged, thus eliminating the direct election of candidates by the conventions. More than 40 states now select delegates to the Democratic convention through primary elections. Virtually all Democratic primaries allocate delegates on a proportional basis, so that the proportion of delegates awarded to a candidate in a state is roughly the same as the proportion of the vote he receives in that state (provided that he receives at least 15 percent). In contrast, almost all Republican presidential primaries award all delegates to the candidate who receives the most votes. Thus, candidates running for the Democratic nomination tend to win at least some delegates in each primary, resulting generally in closer and longer nominating contests. Nevertheless, one candidate usually captures a majority of delegates before the summer nominating convention, leaving the convention simply to ratify the winner.

In addition to confirming the party nominee and adopting the party platform, the national convention formally chooses a national committee to organize the next convention and to govern the party until the next convention is held. The Democratic National Committee (DNC) consists of about 400 party leaders representing all U.S. states and territories. Its chairman is typically named by the partys presidential nominee and then formally elected by the committee. The DNC has little power, because it lacks direct authority over party members in Congress and even in the states. Democratic members of the House and the Senate organize themselves into party conferences that elect the party leaders of each chamber. In keeping with the decentralized nature of the party, each chamber also creates separate committees to raise and disburse funds for House and Senate election campaigns.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

2013 Encyclopædia Britannica

The Republican Party

History

Republican Party, by name Grand Old Party (GOP), in the United States, one of the two major political parties, the other being the Democratic Party. During the 19th century the Republican Party stood against the extension of slavery to the countrys new territories and, ultimately, for slaverys complete abolition. During the 20th and 21st centuries the party came to be associated with laissez-faire capitalism, low taxes, and conservative social policies. The party acquired the acronym GOP, widely understood as Grand Old Party, in the 1870s. The partys official logo, the elephant, is derived from a cartoon by Thomas Nast and also dates from the 1870s.

Although Jeffersons political philosophy is consistent with the outlook of the modern Republican Party, his faction, which soon became known as the Democratic-Republican Party, ironically evolved by the 1830s into the Democratic Party, the modern Republican Partys chief rival.

The Republican Party traces its roots to the 1850s, when antislavery leaders (including former members of the Democratic, Whig, and Free-Soil parties) joined forces to oppose the extension of slavery into the Kansas and Nebraska territories by the proposed Kansas-Nebraska Act. At meetings in Ripon, Wisconsin (May 1854), and Jackson, Michigan (July 1854), they recommended forming a new party, which was duly established at the political convention in Jackson.

At their first presidential nominating convention in 1856, the Republicans nominated John C. Frémont on a platform that called on Congress to abolish slavery in the territories, reflecting a widely held view in the North. Although ultimately unsuccessful in his presidential bid, Frémont carried 11 Northern states and received nearly two-fifths of the electoral vote. During the first four years of its existence, the party rapidly displaced the Whigs as the main opposition to the dominant Democratic Party. In 1860 the Democrats split over the slavery issue, as the Northern and Southern wings of the party nominated different candidates (Stephen A. Douglas and John C. Breckinridge, respectively); the election that year also included John Bell, the nominee of the Constitutional Union Party. Thus, the Republican candidate, Abraham Lincoln, was able to capture the presidency, winning 18 Northern states and receiving 60 percent of the electoral vote but only 40 percent of the popular vote. By the time of Lincolns inauguration as president, however, seven Southern states had seceded from the Union, and the country soon descended into the American Civil War (186165).

In 1863 Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation, which declared slaves in rebelling states to be forever free and welcomed them to join the Unions armed forces. The abolition of slavery would, in 1865, be formally entrenched in the Constitution of the United States with the adoption of the Thirteenth Amendment. Because the historical role played by Lincoln and the Republican Party in the abolition of slavery came to be regarded as their greatest legacy, the Republican Party is sometimes referred to as the party of Lincoln.

The prolonged agony of the Civil War weakened Lincolns prospects for reelection in 1864. To broaden his support, he chose as his vice presidential candidate Andrew Johnson, a pro-Union Democratic senator from Tennessee, and the Lincoln-Johnson ticket subsequently won a landslide victory over Democrat George B. McClellan and his running mate George Pendleton. Following Lincolns assassination at the end of the war, Johnson favoured Lincolns moderate program for the Reconstruction of the South over the more punitive plan backed by the Radical Republican members of Congress. Stymied for a time by Johnsons vetoes, the Radical Republicans won overwhelming control of Congress in the 1866 elections and engineered Johnsons impeachment in the House of Representatives. Although the Senate fell one vote short of convicting and removing Johnson, the Radical Republicans managed to implement their Reconstruction program, which made the party anathema across the former Confederacy. In the North the partys close identification with the Union victory secured it the allegiance of most farmers, and its support of protective tariffs and of the interests of big business eventually gained it the backing of powerful industrial and financial circles.

The 1860 election is today regarded by most political observers as the first of three critical elections in the United Statescontests that produced sharp and enduring changes in party loyalties across the country (although some analysts consider the election of 1824 to be the first critical election). After 1860 the Democratic and Republican parties became the major parties in a largely two-party system. In federal elections from the 1870s to the 1890s, the parties were in rough balanceexcept in the South, which became solidly Democratic. The two parties controlled Congress for almost equal periods, though the Democrats held the presidency only during the two terms of Grover Cleveland (188589 and 189397).

In the countrys second critical election, in 1896, the Republicans won the presidency and control of both houses of Congress, and the Republican Party became the majority party in most states outside the South. The Republican presidential nominee that year was William McKinley, a conservative who favoured high tariffs on foreign goods and sound money tied to the value of gold. The Democrats, already burdened by the economic depression that began under President Cleveland, nominated William Jennings Bryan, who advocated cheap money (money available at low interest rates) based on both gold and silver.

The assassination of President McKinley in 1901 elevated to the presidency Theodore Roosevelt, leader of the partys progressive wing. Roosevelt opposed monopolistic and exploitative business practices, adopted a more conciliatory attitude toward labour, and urged the conservation of natural resources. He was reelected in 1904 but declined to run in 1908, deferring to his secretary of war and friend, William Howard Taft, who won handily. Subsequently disenchanted with Tafts conservative policies, Roosevelt unsuccessfully challenged him for the Republican nomination in 1912. Roosevelt then bolted the Republican Party to form the Progressive Party (Bull Moose Party) and ran for president against Taft and the Democratic candidate, Woodrow Wilson. With the Republican vote divided, Wilson won the presidency, and he was reelected in 1916. During the spectacular prosperity of the 1920s, the Republicans conservative and probusiness policies proved more attractive to voters than Wilsons brand of idealism and internationalism. The Republicans easily won the presidential elections of 1920, 1924, and 1928.

The stock market crash of 1929 and the Great Depression that followed had severe consequences for the Republicans, largely because of their unwillingness to combat the effects of the depression through direct government intervention in the economy. In the election of 1932, considered the countrys third critical election, Republican incumbent President Herbert Hoover was overwhelmingly defeated by Democrat Franklin D. Roosevelt, and the Republicans were relegated to the status of a minority party. Roosevelts three reelections (he was the only president to serve more than two terms), the succession of Harry S. Truman to the presidency on Roosevelts death in 1945, and Trumans narrow election over New York Governor Thomas E. Dewey in 1948 kept the Republicans out of the White House for two decades. Although most Republicans in the 1930s vehemently opposed Roosevelts New Deal social programs, by the 1950s the party had largely accepted the federal governments expanded role and regulatory powers.

In 1952 the Republican Party nominated as its presidential candidate World War II supreme Allied commander Dwight D. Eisenhower, who easily defeated Democrat Adlai E. Stevenson in the general election. Despite Eisenhowers centrist views, the Republican platform was essentially conservative, calling for a strong anticommunist stance in foreign affairs, reductions in government regulation of the economy, lower taxes for the wealthy, and resistance to federal civil rights legislation (though Eisenhower did dispatch federal troops to Arkansas in 1957 to enforce the court-ordered racial integration of a high school in Little Rock; he also signed the Civil Rights Acts of 1957 and 1960). The party retained the traditional support of both big and small business and gained new support from growing numbers of middle-class suburbanites andperhaps most significantlywhite Southerners, who were upset by the prointegration policies of leading Democrats, including President Truman, who had ordered the integration of the military. Eisenhower was reelected in 1956, but in 1960 Richard M. Nixon, Eisenhowers vice president, lost narrowly to Democrat John F. Kennedy.

The Republicans were in severe turmoil at their 1964 convention, where moderates and conservatives battled for control of the party. Ultimately, the conservatives secured the nomination of Senator Barry M. Goldwater, who lost by a landslide to President Lyndon B. Johnson, Kennedys vice president and successor. By 1968 the partys moderate faction regained control and again nominated Nixon, who narrowly won the popular vote over Hubert H. Humphrey, Johnsons vice president. Many Southern Democrats abandoned the party to vote for the anti-integration candidate George C. Wallace. Importantly, the 1964 and 1968 elections signaled the death of the Democratic Solid South, as both Goldwater and Nixon made significant inroads there. In 1964, 5 of the 6 states won by Goldwater were in the South; in 1968, 11 Southern states voted for Nixon and only 1 voted for Humphrey.

Although Nixon was reelected by a landslide in 1972, Republicans made few gains in congressional, state, and local elections and failed to win control of Congress. In the wake of the Watergate scandal, Nixon resigned the presidency in August 1974 and was succeeded in office by Gerald R. Ford, the first appointed vice president to become president. Ford lost narrowly to Southern Democrat Jimmy Carter in 1976. In 1980 Ronald W. Reagan, the charismatic leader of the Republican Partys conservative wing, defeated Carter and helped the Republicans to regain control of the Senate, which they held until 1987.

Reagan introduced deep tax cuts and launched a massive buildup of U.S. military forces. His personal popularity and an economic recovery contributed to his 49-state victory over Democrat Walter F. Mondale in 1984. His vice president, George Bush, continued the Republicans presidential success by handily defeating Democrat Michael S. Dukakis in 1988. During Bushs term, the Cold War came to an end after communism collapsed in the Soviet Union and eastern Europe. In 1991 Bush led an international coalition that drove Iraqi armies out of Kuwait in the Persian Gulf War. Congress continued to be controlled by the Democrats, however, and Bush lost his bid for reelection in 1992 to another Southern Democrat, Bill Clinton. Partly because of Clintons declining popularity in 199394, the Republicans won victories in the 1994 midterm elections that gave them control of both houses of Congress for the first time since 1954. They promptly undertook efforts to overhaul the countrys welfare system and to reduce the budget deficit, but their uncompromising and confrontational style led many voters to blame them for a budget impasse in 199596 that resulted in two partial government shutdowns. Clinton was reelected in 1996, though the Republicans retained control of Congress.

In 2000 Texas Governor George W. Bush, son of the former president, recaptured the presidency for the Republicans, receiving 500,000 fewer popular votes than Democrat Al Gore but narrowly winning a majority of the electoral vote (271266) after the Supreme Court of the United States ordered a halt to the manual recounting of disputed ballots in Florida. Bush was only the second son of a president to assume the nations highest office. The Republicans also won a majority in both chambers of Congress (though the Democrats gained effective control of the Senate in 2001 following the decision of Republican Senator Jim Jeffords of Vermont to became an independent). A surge in Bushs popularity following the September 11 attacks of 2001 enabled the Republicans to recapture the Senate and to make gains in the House of Representatives in 2002. In 2004 Bush was narrowly reelected, winning both the popular and electoral vote, and the Republicans kept control of both houses of Congress. In the 2006 midterm elections, however, the Republicans fared poorly, hindered largely by the growing opposition to the Iraq War, and the Democrats regained control of both the House and the Senate. In the general election of 2008 the Republican presidential nominee, John McCain, was defeated by Democrat Barack Obama, and the Democrats increased their majority in both houses of Congress. The following year the Republican National Committee elected Michael Steele as its first African American chairman.

With a gain of some 60 seats, a swing not registered since 1948, Republicans recaptured control of the House and dramatically reduced the Democrats majority in the Senate in the 2010 midterm election. The election, which was widely seen as a referendum on the Obama administrations policy agenda, was marked by anxiety over the struggling economy (especially the high unemployment rate) and by the upsurge of the Tea Partya populist movement whose adherents generally opposed excessive taxation and big government. Tea Party candidates, some of whom had displaced candidates favoured by the Republican establishment during the primaries, had mixed success in the general election.

In the 2012 general election, the Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney was unable to unseat Obama. The situation in Congress remained relatively unchanged, with Republicans retaining their hold on the House of Representatives and Democrats successfully defending their majority in the Senate.

Policy and Structure

Although its founders refused to recognize the right of states and territories to practice slavery, the modern Republican Party supports states rights against the power of the federal government in most cases, and it opposes the federal regulation of traditionally state and local matters, such as policing and education. Because the party is highly decentralized (as is the Democratic Party), it encompasses a wide variety of opinion on certain issues, though it is ideologically more unified at the national level than the Democratic Party is. The Republicans advocate reduced taxes as a means of stimulating the economy


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I hope everyone is watching Advancing The Dream on MSNBC tonight with Rev Sharapton. It will be replayed again at 9:00 central time if you missed it. He had on Cory Booker, Stevie Wonder, Magic Johnson, Condi Rice and others. Very inspiring.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I hope everyone is watching Advancing The Dream on MSNBC tonight with Rev Sharapton. It will be replayed again at 9:00 central time if you missed it. He had on Cory Booker, Stevie Wonder, Magic Johnson, Condi Rice and others. Very inspiring.


Just wanted to let all of you know that I am still with you and I am ignoring anything that even smacks of snarkiness . Really enjoying the history lessons


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Just wanted to let all of you know that I am still with you and I am ignoring anything that even smacks of snarkiness . Really enjoying the history lessons


Same, Mia. This thread is a blessing--let's keep it going.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Just wanted to let all of you know that I am still with you and I am ignoring anything that even smacks of snarkiness . Really enjoying the history lessons


That's the thing to do Miata. We can't stop them from posting in here, but we certainly don't have to acknowledge them.
Glad to see you will still be around.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> I hope everyone is watching Advancing The Dream on MSNBC tonight with Rev Sharapton. It will be replayed again at 9:00 central time if you missed it. He had on Cory Booker, Stevie Wonder, Magic Johnson, Condi Rice and others. Very inspiring.


I have it on right now, NJG. Thanks for the reminder.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> I am with you Shirley. I can take only so much of it and then have to stay away.


What happened as this one you replied to is different than the one Designer actually posted--how did that happen as my name & KGP's name must have been added as an after thought.

Designer just had to take a stab--I have not said anything bad to her nor has KGP, so this was not necessary!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's the thing to do Miata. We can't stop them from posting in here, but we certainly don't have to acknowledge them.
> Glad to see you will still be around.


We do have freedom of speech!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Hello Janeway, thank you for asking. The promise is unimportant, the body is not great, and I've just started for the umpteenth time a cashmere sweater for a friend. I hope your health is holding up.


I have not had the pleasure to knit with cashmere so is it easy or difficult to work with?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

NJG said:


> I hope everyone is watching Advancing The Dream on MSNBC tonight with Rev Sharapton. It will be replayed again at 9:00 central time if you missed it. He had on Cory Booker, Stevie Wonder, Magic Johnson, Condi Rice and others. Very inspiring.


Don't you ever watch anything else except Rev. Sharapton? There is an entire world of other things to watch. I do enjoy Stevie Wonders music & Magic Johnson, but won't waste my time watching the others.

No wonder your head is in the sand.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> Just wanted to let all of you know that I am still with you and I am ignoring anything that even smacks of snarkiness . Really enjoying the history lessons


Yes, but the history about the Democrats happens to be biased by what you want to believe. I'll stay here as long as the Republican Party is slammed. I'm truthful not Sharky.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Does anybody remember this doll?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

When things get ugly, just remember the night we all spent around the campfire and all of the laughter we shared.


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## diane647 (Sep 25, 2011)

Every ones deserves to be judged by the content of their character.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

diane647 said:


> Every ones deserves to be judged by the content of their character.


Judge not lest ye be judged.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Does anybody remember this doll?


I'd say from the length of the skirts that it dates from the 1960s--OK, a wild guess: a Chatty Cathy? (do I get the doll if I guess right?  )


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'd say from the length of the skirts that it dates from the 1960s--OK, a wild guess: a Chatty Cathy? (do I get the doll if I guess right?  )


That was my guess, too, but it was way after my "time."


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> That was my guess, too, but it was way after my "time."


I had a Chatty Cathy too! This one is Patty Play Pal. She was my fav. I am trying to find one on ebay for Brynn.
I used to dress the doll in my clothes.One night my grandmother was cooking. I had put one of my dresses on the doll and stood her in the kitchen with her back to my grandmother. 
My grandmother must have told the doll (thinking it was me) 5 times to get out of the kitchen. (I was hiding under the table). Finally she swatted the doll on the butt and the doll went flying across the dining room. I was giggling and she found me hiding. I got a good spanking that night. I almost gave her a heart attack.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I had a Chatty Cathy too! This one is Patty Play Pal. She was my fav. I am trying to find one on ebay for Brynn.
> I used to dress the doll in my clothes.One night my grandmother was cooking. I had put one of my dresses on the doll and stood her in the kitchen with her back to my grandmother.
> My grandmother must have told the doll (thinking it was me) 5 times to get out of the kitchen. (I was hiding under the table). Finally she swatted the doll on the butt and the doll went flying across the dining room. I was giggling and she found me hiding. I got a good spanking that night. I almost gave her a heart attack.


You poor things--both of you!
Ah, childhood dolls...in the 70s my sister and I both had Baby Tenderloves. Anyone remember those? They were one-piece non-jointed rubber jobs that could take a lot of wear and tear...which they definitely got with two older brothers in the family!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, thanks for posting the info from the 2013 Britannica in re polititcal parties. My mind snags on the mention of Hubert Humphrey. Sometimes a presidential candidate will choose a running mate to dead-end that person's political career. This is what happened to Humphrey. He was made to look like a clown in the '68 election when he was in fact a great supporter of civil rights and other issues that were controversial then.

He gave a speech in 1964 that deeply affected my political orientation, and I still feel a debt of gratitude to him. 

Humphrey was side tracked and derailed because he was a threat to the existing power structure. I'm sure someone (perhaps I should someones) will ask me to prove what I've said. 

I've thought a lot about how often people here are asked to prove what they say, and how some people resent it when they're told to do their own research.

At the age of 64, I have a broad variety of experience and study, I think anyone who doubts the truth of what I say can do the work to prove I'm wrong. I know what I know, and I say what I know, which is derived from my experience and my study of several subjects, instead of saying what I could pretend is true. I don't think I'm alone in that.

Of course I don't know everything about everything. Anyone who wants to accuse me of pretending that's the case is sadlymisguided. Instead of that, I'd rather read what others here have to say about Humphrey and the general subject of derailing a potential President by making him a Vice President. I wonder if that's the case with Biden.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

I remember one year getting a doll and a buggy, I think it was about 1950. The first thing I did was run the buggy into the wall. I don't think my doll had a special name or anything, she was just a baby doll. I gave her a hair cut, and it wasn't a very good one, and then I got a hold of some red nail polish and I polished her finger nails, not very well I might add, and then I used it to give her some lip stick. She didn't look too good after that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> That was my guess, too, but it was way after my "time."


i was just barely young enough to have one Barbie doll that I lost interest in very quickly as the time for playing with dolls came soon after I got that Barbie. What I remember from the years I played with dolls was my Betsy Wetsy doll and my Betsy McCall doll, Same first name, very different dolls. Stories about Betsy McCall were featured in McCall's magazine and she had the coolest clothese without the grossly deformed body of the Barbie dolls. She was a girl like the girls who played with dolls.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> I remember one year getting a doll and a buggy, I think it was about 1950. The first thing I did was run the buggy into the wall. I don't think my doll had a special name or anything, she was just a baby doll. I gave her a hair cut, and it wasn't a very good one, and then I got a hold of some red nail polish and I polished her finger nails, not very well I might add, and then I used it to give her some lip stick. She didn't look too good after that.


Did you ever make doll beds out of Quaker Oats boxes? That was a big deal in my early days of playing with dolls.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> I remember one year getting a doll and a buggy, I think it was about 1950. The first thing I did was run the buggy into the wall. I don't think my doll had a special name or anything, she was just a baby doll. I gave her a hair cut, and it wasn't a very good one, and then I got a hold of some red nail polish and I polished her finger nails, not very well I might add, and then I used it to give her some lip stick. She didn't look too good after that.


Wow! it's a good thing dolls can't talk. Mine, like yours, would have had plenty to complain about: bad haircuts, serving as a bat in my brothers' baseball games, "force feedings" of ten or more bottles in an hour, then being left in wet panties for days after the water dribbled out the backside, being gnawed on by the family dog etc etc.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> i was just barely young enough to have one Barbie doll that I lost interest in very quickly as the time for playing with dolls came soon after I got that Barbie. What I remember from the years I played with dolls was my Betsy Wetsy doll and my Betsy McCall doll, Same first name, very different dolls. Stories about Betsy McCall were featured in McCall's magazine and she had the coolest clothese without the grossly deformed body of the Barbie dolls. She was a girl like the girls who played with dolls.


I too never cared much for Barbies--after the Baby Tenderlove era I got a dollhouse for Christmas and focused pretty much on that. My sister and I were completely captivated by the "Little House" books, so the dollhouse and everything that went in it had an old-fashioned pioneer theme. Somehow Barbie wouldn't have looked quite churning butter in the dollhouse kitchen or snuggling with Ken in a six inch long brass bed!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Condi told a story tonight of when her parents wanted to register to vote. Her moter, was a teacher so they asked her who the first president was and of course she said George Washington. Her father was then asked to guess how many jelly beans were in a jar, which would be next to impossible, so of course he was wrong. He was very upset and talked to someone about it and this person said I have a friend who will let anyone register as long as they say they are republican, so that is what he did. He said I am a republican, so they let him register and he voted republican from then on. Seems kind of crooked to me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> Condi told a story tonight of when her parents wanted to register to vote. Her moter, was a teacher so they asked her who the first president was and of course she said George Washington. Her father was then asked to guess how many jelly beans were in a jar, which would be next to impossible, so of course he was wrong. He was very upset and talked to someone about it and this person said I have a friend who will let anyone register as long as they say they are republican, so that is what he did. He said I am a republican, so they let him register and he voted republican from then on. Seems kind of crooked to me.


Kind of? I'd say--absolutely! I hope this didn't happen recently!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Kind of? I'd say--absolutely! I hope this didn't happen recently!


No it was parents of Condi Rice, back in the Jim Crow era.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

NJG said:


> No it was parents of Condi Rice, back in the Jim Crow era.


Whew! I should have realized, of course, that that was part of Jim Crow insanity. According to Ask.com:

Examples of questions asked of Blacks in Alabama included: naming all sixty-seven county judges in the state, naming the date on which Oklahoma was admitted to the Union, and declaring how many bubbles are in a bar of soap.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love America. And I love Ingried too. And everything you both stand for.



Ingried said:


> Janeway
> I know you are unhappy about this but I am an American and am fortunate to be surrounded by Fellow Americans who are kind, caring, considerate, humane.
> My issue is with people who absolutely refuse to widen their horizon and instead try to tear down others.
> That is the very reason that some of us are not liked all too well in other lands because they are grandstanding with Sand under their feet.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried said:


> alcameron
> Those who have learned or would love to learn another tongue are always complimentary, those who are void of those skills or desires are a different story.
> My Accent does not identify my place of origin since it is a mixture of a number of languages.
> A certain Gender is usualy intrigued with the Accent, the other one often shows jealousy.
> Not my problem.


I know you are much too wise to judge us all alike.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Kind of? I'd say--absolutely! I hope this didn't happen recently!


susanmos2000
why should we even now have to claim a Party to vote as is required in some States in order to register. Change in order.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Kind of? I'd say--absolutely! I hope this didn't happen recently!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

but it's a private vote. I hope he votes in his favor.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> why should we even now have to claim a Party to vote as is required in some States in order to register. Change in order.


It truly is, Huck. Any party that feels it can win only by keeping certain folks from casting their votes needs to take a good hard look at itself.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, I'm off to bed. Bazinga, ladies!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Where are you ladies posting? Are you on this thread or roaming around? I got caught up watching TV and lost track of the time. I am already getting so much campaign email it is overwhelming. Are the rest of you being bombarded too? Already rolling into the midterms and then 2016.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hey tail end of a donkey, I always say 'welcome' to people. And I mean it....wherever they were born....whatever the color of their skin...wherever the went to school....or didn't go to school.

The only ones I do not welcome are ones who feel a need to put others down to make themselves feel better.....and claim imagined slights if that doesn't work.....and band into gangs behind a person intent on disruption.

I'm not saying this to janeway. I am compelled to say this to the many open minded people who read here. I hope we will all discourage this bullying.



Janeway said:


> Yes, when Huck joined, Dame even said welcome back as I do know who you really are--so it is Ingried in hiding.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And many have forgotten the stated principles of this thread in a blatant attempt to derail this thread. I hope we can band together to make their attempts unsuccessful.



aw9358 said:


> Ingried, we have forgotten what we all promised.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In this great nation, people are free to worship as they wish. And they are free to change their beliefs, as they see fit. And no one has a right to infringe on any others' beliefs. Keep this in mind.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You give up too easily.



Designer1234 said:


> Hi everyone -- I thought there was some hope of ignoring the nastiness on this thread-- I have been off line except for the workshops for the past 3 or 4 days due to an unexpected medical problem and have just caught up reading .
> 
> It was a good idea -- but the nastiness and personal insults are still pervasive. I guess the promises made were not realistic and certainly fell by the wayside.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What you say is true. It is best to ignore ill mannered people. All others know who they are and that they are just troublesome interlopers on the thread. I feel sorry for them. As Sheldon would describe them, "Needy babies, Greedy babies" and to think they are grown women.
> This has been a Public Service Announcement. Cheeky Blighter
> (any comments or concerns please feel free to send a PM c/o
> Cheeky Blighter)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Needy babies, greedy babies indeed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll try again and again.



alcameron said:


> Extinction is the most effective way to eliminate undesirable behavior, although it is not the easiest way to deal with problem behaviors. Punishment is the old fall back position, but rather than eliminating the behavior, it drives it underground, to pop up whenever the punisher is gone or removed.
> 
> Extinction requires ignoring or redirecting the target behavior. Research has shown it to be the most effective and permanent way to change problem behavior.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

midwegian said:


> So sorry to see this fascinating thread misdirected by a need to defend against ridiculous postings. They win, we lose when we engage. How sad is that?


      Sad and disgusting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for stopping by Shirley. You see all the usual suspects and it is sad that we are being bombarded by the right who have no desire to have any friendly interaction. There have been a couple of sincere attempts from both sides but the same characters keep trying to destroy the thread and all we can do is try to ignore the negative rhetoric. It's sad it has to be this way but it is what it is and we will carry on as best we can. For the most part we are having very nice informative conversations but this morning a certain group have decided to carpet bomb the site. It is like the London Blitz by the Nazi air force and the people of London hung in there and saved their city and we will save this thread for all the people of good faith. They will never destroy us. I understand your feelings and respect you very much dear and we will all try to do the best we can. Cheeky


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cowards turn away from what they believe. If that is what you choose, so be it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> midwegian - you are right and I hope people can ignore the ridiculous posts. Sometimes people can be overwhelmed by the pointless attacks that are being posted and I ask all once again to not even acknowledge any of this. I am not leaving and I hope the rest of you will stay. A handful of folks want to seize control of this thread and if you must do battle with them take it else where. I ask this of all parties, left or right. We do not want any bad behavior from anyone here. Thanks, Cheeky


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Cheeky, you've done a great job here. The attacks seem directed at you. l'm sorry for the hatred and ignorance. They are deliberately coming where they are not wanted in order to disrupt honest discourse. I wish KP had enough backbone to stand up to this.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am very disappointed.



Designer1234 said:


> The thing is that the nasty posts can be ignored -- but it has to be by everyone- one or two people sink this thread because one or two people won't ignore their nastiness.
> They win, you lose -- soo sad. I wish you well.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A poor actor of limited intelligence.



jelun2 said:


> Oh yes, the glorious Reagan years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo!



miatalover66 said:


> Just wanted to let all of you know that I am still with you and I am ignoring anything that even smacks of snarkiness . Really enjoying the history lessons


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm real close to escaping to the woods. You showed me how to deal with the bears.

Here it's snakes in the grass.



BrattyPatty said:


> When things get ugly, just remember the night we all spent around the campfire and all of the laughter we shared.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amen.



diane647 said:


> Every ones deserves to be judged by the content of their character.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Personally, I don't think Biden will ever be President....except for one horrendous possibility I will not put into print. Bush Sr made his administration a joke by running with Dan Quayle, although I would certainly not call that derailing Quayle....at least he disappeared, mostly.Humphrey was indeed derailed. And the Taft/Roosevelt election and administration still encourages conspiracy theories of the assassination of Taft. Politics.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Cheeky, thanks for posting the info from the 2013 Britannica in re polititcal parties. My mind snags on the mention of Hubert Humphrey. Sometimes a presidential candidate will choose a running mate to dead-end that person's political career. This is what happened to Humphrey. He was made to look like a clown in the '68 election when he was in fact a great supporter of civil rights and other issues that were controversial then.
> 
> He gave a speech in 1964 that deeply affected my political orientation, and I still feel a debt of gratitude to him.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I loved paper dolls. I even used to design clothes.



MaidInBedlam said:


> i was just barely young enough to have one Barbie doll that I lost interest in very quickly as the time for playing with dolls came soon after I got that Barbie. What I remember from the years I played with dolls was my Betsy Wetsy doll and my Betsy McCall doll, Same first name, very different dolls. Stories about Betsy McCall were featured in McCall's magazine and she had the coolest clothese without the grossly deformed body of the Barbie dolls. She was a girl like the girls who played with dolls.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm caught up. Bazinga.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I too never cared much for Barbies--after the Baby Tenderlove era I got a dollhouse for Christmas and focused pretty much on that. My sister and I were completely captivated by the "Little House" books, so the dollhouse and everything that went in it had an old-fashioned pioneer theme. Somehow Barbie wouldn't have looked quite churning butter in the dollhouse kitchen or snuggling with Ken in a six inch long brass bed!


My mother never let me have a Barbie doll - she didn't like the way it portrayed women and she felt that it would be in my best interests as a young girl not to have one. I was never really a doll person, but I was a MAJOR stuffed animl lover. I did go to my friends' houses and they had "extra" Barbies for me to use. I just never really enjoyed playing with them or other dolls- I was more interested in designing and hand--sewing these "gorgeous creations" for my animals! Oy Vey - I was NEVER a talented seamstress but a few years later I learned to knit and made some nice "skirts and ponchos for my teddies


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can count me in the anti-Barbie group. As a child I preferred baby dolls. As an adult I disliked what Barbie said about women. I never bought a Barbie for my children or grandchildren. Mattel made its money elsewhere.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I have not had the pleasure to knit with cashmere so is it easy or difficult to work with?


It's lovely but it doesn't have the "memory" of wool, so it doesn't make very stretchy ribbing. I might run some invisible elastic inside the ribbed parts. There's nothing like it for softness, and I only wish I could afford to make something for myself with it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Personally, I don't think Biden will ever be President....except for one horrendous possibility I will not put into print. Bush Sr made his administration a joke by running with Dan Quayle, although I would certainly not call that derailing Quayle....at least he disappeared, mostly.Humphrey was indeed derailed. And the Taft/Roosevelt election and administration still encourages conspiracy theories of the assassination of Taft. Politics.


Personally the last twenty years or so has taught me never to bet on the probable outcome of political contests. Bush the father/Bush the son both assuming the office of President? A man of African-American descent? The wife of a former President even being considered as a serious candidate? It all seems utterly fantastic to me--never would have imagined such doings in a million years.


----------



## bcdado (May 27, 2013)

http://truth-out.org/news/item/18442-flow-chart-exposes-common-cores-myriad-corporate-connections

I remember someone mentioning Common Core on this site - interesting read on them.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

diane647 said:


> Every ones deserves to be judged by the content of their character.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D :-D


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> why should we even now have to claim a Party to vote as is required in some States in order to register. Change in order.


That seems particularly absurd to me. In California we have to pick a party affiliation to vote in Presidential primaries. It seems so obvious that "the American way" should be to lust all candidates in any election and ditch the whole idea of having to state a party affiliation ever. Seems like a bunch of horsefeathers to me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> And many have forgotten the stated principles of this thread in a blatant attempt to derail this thread. I hope we can band together to make their attempts unsuccessful.


I agree. The up side is IMHO, we can actually say this is a thread with lots of real discussion and a sprinkling of arguments intended to drail the topic. S&O certainly is the opposite, and I am very happy that I've "unwatched" it and a couple of other topics.

Sure, we could do a bit better. I'll bet lots of the people who are here to discuss issues in keeping with the stated principles of this topic are working on sticking to those principles. I think Cheeky started an oasis and it's starting to look better and better, and becoming more and more refreshing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I am very disappointed.


From past experience, I repect what Designer1234 has said about the downside of this thread. I think of her as an early warning system, and she encourages me to work hard at ignoring any and all BS. I'll never be perfect, but I hope to getas good as I can about reacting to our detractors.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> It's lovely but it doesn't have the "memory" of wool, so it doesn't make very stretchy ribbing. I might run some invisible elastic inside the ribbed parts. There's nothing like it for softness, and I only wish I could afford to make something for myself with it.


aw9358
I frequently knit fine elastic into the wasteband and cuffs. Sometimes I even double the elastic. It keeps its shape for a very long time. If it loses its stretch after some time I thread new elastic through.
At other times I knit a VERY fine matching yarn with stretch alongside the main yarn. I borrow some from machine knitting Friends.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wonderful ideas. Thanks for sharing.



Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> I frequently knit fine elastic into the wasteband and cuffs. Sometimes I even double the elastic. It keeps its shape for a very long time. If it loses its stretch after some time I thread new elastic through.
> At other times I knit a VERY fine matching yarn with stretch alongside the main yarn. I borrow some from machine knitting Friends.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Whew! I should have realized, of course, that that was part of Jim Crow insanity. According to Ask.com:
> 
> Examples of questions asked of Blacks in Alabama included: naming all sixty-seven county judges in the state, naming the date on which Oklahoma was admitted to the Union, and declaring how many bubbles are in a bar of soap.


Wow, that was insanity, but you know if given a chance there are people out there willing to do that again.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Hey tail end of a donkey, I always say 'welcome' to people. And I mean it....wherever they were born....whatever the color of their skin...wherever the went to school....or didn't go to school.
> 
> The only ones I do not welcome are ones who feel a need to put others down to make themselves feel better.....and claim imagined slights if that doesn't work.....and band into gangs behind a person intent on disruption.
> 
> I'm not saying this to janeway. I am compelled to say this to the many open minded people who read here. I hope we will all discourage this bullying.


WOW, how many times can one lie in a post? I think you really need to find out the definition of a vow.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> From past experience, I repect what Designer1234 has said about the downside of this thread. I think of her as an early warning system, and she encourages me to work hard at ignoring any and all BS. I'll never be perfect, but I hope to getas good as I can about reacting to our detractors.


Amen


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.

But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections

What is the matter with people. Things that are common sense to most people they don't get. Some additional reading.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/07/west-texas-aftermath-regulation-laws

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/west-fertilizer_n_3134202.html


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.
> 
> But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections
> 
> ...


 And they never will. I used to think otherwise. I am now 66 years old, watched upheaval of the 60's, 70's and even 80's. at the time thought the changes were for good and permanent but the pendulum has been swinging the other way. Feminism and liberalism are seen as derogatory terms and criticized , not embraced as valid positions. We lived through long lines at the gas pumps only to buying bigger and bigger gas guzzlers. Women are seen as attractive only if dressed in skin tight very short outfits with 5 inch heels.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.
> 
> But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections
> 
> ...


NJG
Nothing like protecting the criminals. Money before Lives.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary
A poor actor of limited intelligence. 

jelun2 wrote:
Oh yes, the glorious Reagan years.


Remember the saying during his campaign "Jane Wyman was right"?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

medusa said:


> My mother never let me have a Barbie doll - she didn't like the way it portrayed women and she felt that it would be in my best interests as a young girl not to have one. I was never really a doll person, but I was a MAJOR stuffed animl lover. I did go to my friends' houses and they had "extra" Barbies for me to use. I just never really enjoyed playing with them or other dolls- I was more interested in designing and hand--sewing these "gorgeous creations" for my animals! Oy Vey - I was NEVER a talented seamstress but a few years later I learned to knit and made some nice "skirts and ponchos for my teddies


A next door neighbor gave my almost 2 year old daughter her old case of Barbies and clothes one day when my daughter was playing with the neighbor's son. My daughter came home and opened the case and pulled out a nude Barbis and she immediately put the exposed breast in her mouth. I was still nursing her in the mornings and evenings. I got the biggest laugh from that. A two year old truly knows what breasts are for!


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> A next door neighbor gave my almost 2 year old daughter her old case of Barbies and clothes one day when my daughter was playing with the neighbor's son. My daughter came home and opened the case and pulled out a nude Barbis and she immediately put the exposed breast in her mouth. I was still nursing her in the mornings and evenings. I got the biggest laugh from that. A two year old truly knows what breasts are for!


I am smiling at this, PeaceGoddess!   

I can't believe I did that -sorry about the misquote!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hey tail end of a donkey, I always say 'welcome' to people. And I mean it....wherever they were born....whatever the color of their skin...wherever the went to school....or didn't go to school.
> 
> The only ones I do not welcome are ones who feel a need to put others down to make themselves feel better.....and claim imagined slights if that doesn't work.....and band into gangs behind a person intent on disruption.
> 
> I'm not saying this to janeway. I am compelled to say this to the many open minded people who read here. I hope we will all discourage this bullying.


Now you are stating that the truth is bullying--cannot handle the truth when actual facts are given!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

medusa said:


> I am smiling at this, Cheeky!


And she remains chheeky to this day!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> I frequently knit fine elastic into the wasteband and cuffs. Sometimes I even double the elastic. It keeps its shape for a very long time. If it loses its stretch after some time I thread new elastic through.
> At other times I knit a VERY fine matching yarn with stretch alongside the main yarn. I borrow some from machine knitting Friends.


Thanks as now I know what to do if I ever knit with cashmere.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

medusa said:


> My mother never let me have a Barbie doll - she didn't like the way it portrayed women and she felt that it would be in my best interests as a young girl not to have one. I was never really a doll person, but I was a MAJOR stuffed animl lover. I did go to my friends' houses and they had "extra" Barbies for me to use. I just never really enjoyed playing with them or other dolls- I was more interested in designing and hand--sewing these "gorgeous creations" for my animals! Oy Vey - I was NEVER a talented seamstress but a few years later I learned to knit and made some nice "skirts and ponchos for my teddies


Same with my mom. I only had "baby dolls". I destroyed many by bathing ones that had stuffing inside, giving them haircuts and trying to make them look beautiful with my tiny tubes of lipstick the Avon lady gave me when she came through the neigborhood once a month. I gradually learned better mothering skills and I guess I didn't really miss not having Barbie. I had a nurse, a ballerina and a bride so I was pretty busy with them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> And she remains chheeky to this day!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> And many have forgotten the stated principles of this thread in a blatant attempt to derail this thread. I hope we can band together to make their attempts unsuccessful.


No one is trying to derail this thread; however, your cronies are not telling the truth as you are only slamming us because we tell the truth. You continue to slam the Republican Party with your own untruths from your mouths as you cannot provide sources.

Here is a fact about Obocare!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm thinking of running for office.



soloweygirl said:


> WOW, how many times can one lie in a post? I think you really need to find out the definition of a vow.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Same here, I don't remember my daughter getting one as a hand me down either. 
I suppose they have provided good wages for someone, though, along the line. 
I think that the only popular doll I succumbed to getting for her was a Cabbage Patch doll the first year those were all the rage. 
I have to go read about whatever nuttiness Michelle (I am not a witch either) Bachmann had to preach about this week. BBS.



damemary said:


> You can count me in the anti-Barbie group. As a child I preferred baby dolls. As an adult I disliked what Barbie said about women. I never bought a Barbie for my children or grandchildren. Mattel made its money elsewhere.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.
> 
> But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections
> 
> ...


NJG you know how all that government regulation is making it impossible for small businesses to stay afloat. What's a little explosion every now and then and a few bags of toxic chemicals laying around? Lost lives every now and again are just one of the costs of doing business.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A strong OSHA with full funding and enforcement power.... would be nice. A strong union with others to back them up. A strike with picket signs that no one will cross. How's it sound to you ?



NJG said:


> It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.
> 
> But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections
> 
> ...


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Welcome back, LizAnne. For the most part we have a lot of friends and other KP people who are trying to enjoy this new thread and we are getting a lot of positive feedback. I have respectfully asked KPG and Love the Lake to not post here as it is very evident to all other posters that they only want to destroy this thread. That is their only reason to be here. I have even suggested they start their own thread which I am sure will interest some KP people and then everyone can be happy. As you pointed out you can tell who the loving and caring people are by their deeds so lets pray they will do everyone a good deed today and depart. We will all thank them for it.


Cheeky, you are one piece of work as you continue to slam the Republican Party with your lies without references so your words are just words out of your hatred!

I won't ever leave this thread as someone must tell the truth about your so called Democratic "friends" who just want to spew your lies & then laugh about the fact that you got away with your evil.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Jane Wyman was right.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm thinking of running for office.


damemary
You shall get my vote. Just think you immediately will have the 47% that Romney threw away. Add to it that you will show 10 years of Tax Returns and winning is a no brainer. Go Girl.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> You shall get my vote. Just think you immediately will have the 47% that Romney threw away. Add to it that you will show 10 years of Tax Returns and winning is a no brainer. Go Girl.


I will donate :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A wise child and patient mother (I only lasted one year when she started unbuttoning my blouse in the grocery check out line.)



peacegoddess said:


> A next door neighbor gave my almost 2 year old daughter her old case of Barbies and clothes one day when my daughter was playing with the neighbor's son. My daughter came home and opened the case and pulled out a nude Barbis and she immediately put the exposed breast in her mouth. I was still nursing her in the mornings and evenings. I got the biggest laugh from that. A two year old truly knows what breasts are for!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now we can't even talk to each other without the butinskis.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> NJG you know how all that government regulation is making it impossible for small businesses to stay afloat. What's a little explosion every now and then and a few bags of toxic chemicals laying around? Lost lives every now and again are just one of the costs of doing business.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: The righties are so predictable. This sounds like them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

HAHAHAHA, I will keep trying too. LOL, that is how I made my living for over 30 years, but, what the heck. 
Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone too much with my acronym in that other thread. I apologize to you, the ones whose opinions matter to me if it did. You know who you are.



damemary said:


> I'll try again and again.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm thinking of running for office.


I think you should damemary. Just be prepared for all the s__t that will be flying in your direction from the loyal opposition. I doubt they even know what that means. That will go flying right over their heads. They aren't too swift on the uptake so if the wind is blowing in the right direction they will be hit by their own poo. :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've always liked you. What are you talking about ? You're fine.



jelun2 said:


> HAHAHAHA, I will keep trying too. LOL, that is how I made my living for over 30 years, but, what the heck.
> Anyway, I hope I didn't offend anyone too much with my acronym in that other thread. I apologize to you, the ones whose opinions matter to me if it did. You know who you are.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shoo poo poo.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think you should damemary. Just be prepared for all the s__t that will be flying in your direction from the loyal opposition. I doubt they even know what that means. That will go flying right over their heads. They aren't too swift on the uptake so if the wind is blowing in the right direction they will be hit by their own poo. :twisted:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, watch your language!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think you should damemary. Just be prepared for all the s__t that will be flying in your direction from the loyal opposition. I doubt they even know what that means. That will go flying right over their heads. They aren't too swift on the uptake so if the wind is blowing in the right direction they will be hit by their own poo. :twisted:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Same here, I don't remember my daughter getting one as a hand me down either.
> I suppose they have provided good wages for someone, though, along the line.
> I think that the only popular doll I succumbed to getting for her was a Cabbage Patch doll the first year those were all the rage.
> I have to go read about whatever nuttiness Michelle (I am not a witch either) Bachmann had to preach about this week. BBS.


Did you hear Bachmann is going to be going to court for improper use of campaign funds. It couldn't happen to a more devout, honest Christian. Pardon my snorting, I can't stop laughing. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, I indicated that someone should (ahem) shut the heck up. The whiner went to the admin.



damemary said:


> I've always liked you. What are you talking about ? You're fine.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Has that been decided? 
If she is one of the best the GOP has to offer... smh.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Did you hear Bachmann is going to be going to court for improper use of campaign funds. It couldn't happen to a more devout, honest Christian. Pardon my snorting, I can't stop laughing. :lol: :lol:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> A strong OSHA with full funding and enforcement power.... would be nice. A strong union with others to back them up. A strike with picket signs that no one will cross. How's it sound to you ?


Sounding better and better damemary.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh Cheeky, I LOVE that avatar. 
Yes to damemary running for office, let's call Emily's List today!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think you should damemary. Just be prepared for all the s__t that will be flying in your direction from the loyal opposition. I doubt they even know what that means. That will go flying right over their heads. They aren't too swift on the uptake so if the wind is blowing in the right direction they will be hit by their own poo. :twisted:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

bcdado said:


> http://truth-out.org/news/item/18442-flow-chart-exposes-common-cores-myriad-corporate-connections
> 
> I remember someone mentioning Common Core on this site - interesting read on them.


Thanks so much, I have never investigated that enough. Maybe one cannot.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Has that been decided?
> If she is one of the best the GOP has to offer... smh.


Not yet, She hasn't gone to court yet. I'll check it out. Then her being in the "Intelligence Committee". What a perfect example of an oxymoron!

All the make up she wears and hairspray? Well you can see what it makes her look like.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Dinner time. See you later. Bazinga!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Enjoy!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Dinner time. See you later. Bazinga!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Oh Cheeky, I LOVE that avatar.
> Yes to damemary running for office, let's call Emily's List today!


We will have to have a fund raiser for her. Thanks, I always have plenty on hand. You never know when a special one may be needed.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm thinking of running for office.


Really? What office? So exciting!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Isn't she loverly?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Not yet, She hasn't gone to court yet. I'll check it out. Then her being in the "Intelligence Committee". What a perfect example of an oxymoron!
> 
> All the make up she wears and hairspray? Well you can see what it makes her look like.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

There is absolutely no excuse to be spreading lies about the Affortable Care Act. You just have to be able to read and have half a brain. It will soon take affect and the republicans are scared to death that the American people will love it as they have learned to love social security and Medicare. Just give it a chance. One of these links tells who exactly is exempt, and Jane as a member oa an American Indian Tribe, you are exempt.

http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/14/20021898-congress-isnt-exempt-from-obamacare?lite

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114284/congress-exempt-obamacare-latest-lie-wont-die

http://obamacarefacts.com/obamacare-mandate-exemption-penalty.php

http://www.snopes.com/politics/medical/exemptions.asp

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/item/16210-congress-to-receive-obamacare-exemption

http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/08/28/white-house-publishes-final-regulations-for-obamacares-individual-mandate-seven-things-you-need-to-know/

http://www.cchfreedom.org/pr/ObamacareMandate-9Exemptions.pdf


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry to have to cancel, but I was just being a smarty pants. I'm too blunt to run for office. Thanks for the cheers from you guys though.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> We will have to have a fund raiser for her. Thanks, I always have plenty on hand. You never know when a special one may be needed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Smarty pants, that's me. Sorry. Thanks though.



peacegoddess said:


> Really? What office? So exciting!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad you like my new avatar.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Not yet, She hasn't gone to court yet. I'll check it out. Then her being in the "Intelligence Committee". What a perfect example of an oxymoron!
> 
> All the make up she wears and hairspray? Well you can see what it makes her look like.


Cheeky Blighter
Now she needs a hairdresser to turn her into a blond. The dumb she has proven already over and over again.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Now she needs a hairdresser to turn her into a blond. The dumb she has proven already over and over again.


 :lol:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sorry to have to cancel, but I was just being a smarty pants. I'm too blunt to run for office. Thanks for the cheers from you guys though.


How about your local school board? Local politics needs independent thinkers and we all know what a state our schools are in!


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Jane Mayer has written a book called LANDSLIDE which covers Reagan's 2nd term. The best written on the Iran/Contra affair and very eye-opening on the President's mental status at the time... his Alzheimer's was beginning to be obvious and the staff was facing difficult decisions.

_Do not engage..._


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is something that I really don't understand. 
If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?

Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Here is something that I really don't understand.
> If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?
> 
> Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


You are speaking to two very prevalent thoughts of mine... I love the extra crunch in the peanut butter so much... Such a simple joy!

I have struggled with the fact that I have a lot less time left on earth than I ever have, and that I'm not going to get out of here alive. Lately, I realized my life is just the undercard for the main event: What happens after death. My mother, sisters and I made a pact just before she died that she would let us know if what we've believed about the afterlife was true... she chose a specific emblem which she would send to us after she passed a way. My 2 sisters got their emblems before the funeral...mine came months later but was staggeringly clear. So now, I truly try to live these remaining years in training for the BIG EVENT! I want to die the best way I know how, which can only be done by living the best life I can now!

Do not engage...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't like mine this crunchy. LOL, I want a bit of space between my nuggets.

Thank you so much for sharing your family's resolve.



midwegian said:


> You are speaking to two very prevalent thoughts of mine... I love the extra crunch in the peanut butter so much... Such a simple joy!
> 
> I have struggled with the fact that I have a lot less time left on earth than I ever have, and that I'm not going to get out of here alive. Lately, I realized my life is just the undercard for the main event: What happens after death. My mother, sisters and I made a pact just before she died that she would let us know if what we've believed about the afterlife was true... she chose a specific emblem which she would send to us after she passed a way. My 2 sisters got their emblems before the funeral...mine came months later but was staggeringly clear. So now, I truly try to live these remaining years in training for the BIG EVENT! I want to die the best way I know how, which can only be done by living the best life I can now!


----------



## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

midwegian said:


> You are speaking to two very prevalent thoughts of mine... I love the extra crunch in the peanut butter so much... Such a simple joy!
> 
> I have struggled with the fact that I have a lot less time left on earth than I ever have, and that I'm not going to get out of here alive. Lately, I realized my life is just the undercard for the main event: What happens after death. My mother, sisters and I made a pact just before she died that she would let us know if what we've believed about the afterlife was true... she chose a specific emblem which she would send to us after she passed a way. My 2 sisters got their emblems before the funeral...mine came months later but was staggeringly clear. So now, I truly try to live these remaining years in training for the BIG EVENT! I want to die the best way I know how, which can only be done by living the best life I can now!


I so much hope you are right. My husband died last month, and neither of us has believed in Heaven. I would be so happy not to think he is completely gone.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Here is something that I really don't understand.
> If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?
> 
> Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


I recently had a discussion with one of my clients about end of life decisions. I cat sit for them, but their elderly mother who lives in an apt unit below their home is quite frail and often talks about being tired of living. So, in addition to caring for the cats I check in on her mother and make sure she is eating and moving around and being active (for her age and strength level). We have interesting talks, she was a teen interned at Manzanar during WWII.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am so sorry for your loss, Queenmum, whichever way it may be your husband is not "completely" gone. He lives in your memories. Please wrap that around yourself and feel soothed.



Queenmum said:


> I so much hope you are right. My husband died last month, and neither of us has believed in Heaven. I would be so happy not to think he is completely gone.


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Queenmum said:


> I so much hope you are right. My husband died last month, and neither of us has believed in Heaven. I would be so happy not to think he is completely gone.


I don't believe anything or anyone is just 'gone'... This universe is so abundantly thrifty (is that the word I want? It'll do) Nothing is wasted, all is connected...our belief is not necessary; only our willingness to be amazed. My condolences on the loss of your husband, dear lady.

Do not engage...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am happy for you and your enjoyment of the time you spend and the lessons you learn with this woman. 
I still wonder why, if she is tired of living, folks don't just allow her to wind down? 
Losing energy and appetite is the most natural way to go, IMHO, and according to hospice.



peacegoddess said:


> I recently had a discussion with one of my clients about end of life decisions. I cat sit for them, but their elderly mother who lives in an apt unit below their home is quite frail and often talks about being tired of living. So, in addition to caring for the cats I check in on her mother and make sure she is eating and moving around and being active (for her age and strength level). We have interesting talks, she was a teen interned at Manzanar during WWII.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am not sure I could sit still while reading about that man. Ugh.



midwegian said:


> Jane Mayer has written a book called LANDSLIDE which covers Reagan's 2nd term. The best written on the Iran/Contra affair and very eye-opening on the President's mental status at the time... his Alzheimer's was beginning to be obvious and the staff was facing difficult decisions.
> 
> _Do not engage..._


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am happy for you and your enjoyment of the time you spend and the lessons you learn with this woman.
> I still wonder why, if she is tired of living, folks don't just allow her to wind down?
> Losing energy and appetite is the most natural way to go, IMHO, and according to hospice.


I agree. They are not convinced she means it and I am not the one to make any decisions.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> I don't believe anything or anyone is just 'gone'... This universe is so abundantly thrifty (is that the word I want? It'll do) Nothing is wasted, all is connected...our belief is not necessary; only our willingness to be amazed. My condolences on the loss of your husband, dear lady.
> 
> Do not engage...


i agree, I think there is much we do not know about the other end of the life "spectrum" and should not be fearful of the unknown.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Life is a break from boring Eternity. We return to where we came from.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Isn't it especially nice that we can give "hints" about what we believe, understand that it is supremely personal, accept what the others think or what we think they think and not go down the "I know the one true way, anyone else is wrong" road. I guess that merits a ??


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Just found this collection of maps on my RSS: 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/12/40-maps-that-explain-the-world/?wpisrc=nl_pulse
Absolutely fascinating... Every once in a while a trove of maps or graphs come along that sum up so much... definitely worth a bookmark!

Do not engage...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Night, Folks.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Goodnight, sweet jelun!


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Isn't it especially nice that we can give "hints" about what we believe, understand that it is supremely personal, accept what the others think or what we think they think and not go down the "I know the one true way, anyone else is wrong" road. I guess that merits a ??


Yes,it is. That is why I like it here.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am not sure I could sit still while reading about that man. Ugh.


It is refreshing to hear you say that. People around here think he is so special. I never listened to him the entire time he was in office, always changed channels or turned off the tv. I always thought he was a little demented.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hello,Mia!
We are a group of diverse women in color and beliefs. Glad you are a part of us.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hello,Mia!
> We are a group of diverse women in color and beliefs. Glad you are a part of us.


Hello back at you


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> There is absolutely no excuse to be spreading lies about the Affortable Care Act. You just have to be able to read and have half a brain. It will soon take affect and the republicans are scared to death that the American people will love it as they have learned to love social security and Medicare. Just give it a chance. One of these links tells who exactly is exempt, and Jane as a member oa an American Indian Tribe, you are exempt.
> 
> http://maddowblog.msnbc.com/_news/2013/08/14/20021898-congress-isnt-exempt-from-obamacare?lite
> 
> ...


NJG MN will have the best rates of any state with MNSure and a lot of our GOP neighbors are reluctantly admitting they were wrong about ACA. It will be nice to have that extra money to put in the savings account and coverage will even be better than what I had. Yes, I am sure the Pubs will learn to love ACA just like they love their SS checks and Medicare that they fought against. Always amazes me what a stink they make but when anything is being given out they are always first in line with hand out to collect. Strange bunch that they are.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> It is refreshing to hear you say that. People around here think he is so special. I never listened to him the entire time he was in office, always changed channels or turned off the tv. I always thought he was a little demented.


Do any of you remember how Nancy complained about the table linens and china just after they entered the White House? Well my daughter, then five years old, and I sent off a hand tatted lace tablecloth (found in a thrisft store, but in exquesite shape) to Nancy and Ronnie. We called up the local NBC news and they came out to our home and did a short piece on how Nancy was fretting over the linens and Ronnie was cutting benefits to college students and food stamps etc. It was fabulous guerilla political commentary.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Now she needs a hairdresser to turn her into a blond. The dumb she has proven already over and over again.


And dumb just comes naturally to her. She doesn't even have to try. She proved brunettes can be dumb too.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Night, jelun. Have a nice evening. :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Queenmum said:


> I so much hope you are right. My husband died last month, and neither of us has believed in Heaven. I would be so happy not to think he is completely gone.


Queenmum, I am so sorry about your husband .He is out of pain and no longer suffering.I am sending you virtual hugs and I hope these gray days grow brighter each day for you.

Hugs,
Patty


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And dumb just comes naturally to her. She doesn't even have to try. She proved brunettes can be dumb too.


I haven't been following her case, Cheeky. I have had enough of her. It will be interesting how things turn out. I wonder if she and Marcus will flee to Switzerland.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Did you hear Bachmann is going to be going to court for improper use of campaign funds. It couldn't happen to a more devout, honest Christian. Pardon my snorting, I can't stop laughing. :lol: :lol:


What about Weiner! Sexting.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Do any of you remember how Nancy complained about the table linens and china just after they entered the White House? Well my daughter, then five years old, and I sent off a hand tatted lace tablecloth (found in a thrisft store, but in exquesite shape) to Nancy and Ronnie. We called up the local NBC news and they came out to our home and did a short piece on how Nancy was fretting over the linens and Ronnie was cutting benefits to college students and food stamps etc. It was fabulous guerilla political commentary.


Oh, I would love to see the documentation on this story. Bet you have none!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone. 
So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, I would love to see the documentation on this story. Bet you have none!


Well I am not sure if the local TV has tapes on the net of stories made over 30 years ago. Why would you doubt that I would do something so fun and politically on topic?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


Enjoy the game, al. I am just reading and peeking in and out tonight. Good night to be inside. It's hot and humid outside.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Enjoy the game, al. I am just reading and peeking in and out tonight. Good night to be inside. It's hot and humid outside.


We're having a heat wave, too. We have no AC, but at night we have to have the fans going. It hasn't been humid, though.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway, Have you ever made a political statement in public on an issue near and dear to you? (not talking about KP, but real out there public) I know I have asked you in the past about boycotting a business that was discriminatory to Native Americans (wheather you would do it) with no answer.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


Thanks for your candor, Al! I must admit that I have become a football fan over the last year, but I blame it on my knitting. A football game gives me a wonderful excuse to sit & knit. I then get caught up in the game and make a fool of myself, here in front of my dogs and cats. When Travathon dropped the ball just before the end zone in the Ravens/Broncos game at Denver the neighbors probably thought my house was being invaded! The dogs went to the bedroom until I settled down. But I did get 4 gorgeous inches of a beautiful navy merino/camel sweater front done (thank you Debbie Bliss)!

When football ends, there's basketball. Not nearly so interesting since the players started wearing culottes.

_DO NOT ENGAGE...._


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

LOL mia, now that you mentioned it, they do look like coulottes!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Queenmum said:


> I so much hope you are right. My husband died last month, and neither of us has believed in Heaven. I would be so happy not to think he is completely gone.


Sorry for your loss, Queenmum. I believe we do go on beyond this life and in recent years I have started to believe as many of the eastern religions do in reincarnation. As someone else just mentioned here I think there is a life force that everything living is a part of and I also think of it as being recycled over and over again until we finally "get it" or really understand what our purpose is here and we interact with all life forms in harmony. I think we still exist and I'm not sure what is next but I believe nature, our creator, or God, whatever we call it does take care of that so we don't have to worry about it. We just do the very best we can in the time we are given. I don't worry about the past anymore or the future. Mindfulness makes the most sense to me because the present is all we can be sure of. I think life is a lot less complicated than we make it and the simpler we live the happier we are. I am also making an effort to get rid of any non essential personal belongings so when I do move on the material stuff will not be a burden for my family unless it is something they could use or want to keep as a momento of me. When my mother died it hit me really hard and that was three years ago and I still think of her everyday and communicate with her. I lost other relatives but when she left this plain of existence I really knew it was going to happen to me too as I couldn't imagine my mother not being here. I miss her but I am happy and I know she is happy too and I will see her again so no worries. Queenmum, I believe your husband is just on that other plain and he is waiting for you to join him when the time comes. Be happy and live this part of your journey to the fullest. He is OK and wouldn't want you to be sad. This is just one of the transitions we all go through. I know I could be wrong but I trust that the bigger forces will guide us along to our next destination at just the right time and someday all of it will make sense to us.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> It is refreshing to hear you say that. People around here think he is so special. I never listened to him the entire time he was in office, always changed channels or turned off the tv. I always thought he was a little demented.


W is the one I could not listen to. I had to mute him or switch channels. At least now he has had the good sense to keep quiet. Wish Rummy & Cheney would do the same. Rummy said athe other day about the President, "He just needs to suck it up and take responsibility." My mouth dropped open, amazed that he had the ba--- to say that. What a jerk. He has never taken reesponsibility for his actions.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sorry for your loss, Queenmum. I believe we do go on beyond this life and in recent years I have started to believe as many of the eastern religions do in reincarnation. As someone else just mentioned here I think there is a life force that everything living is a part of and I also think of it as being recycled over and over again until we finally "get it" or really understand what our purpose is here and we interact with all life forms in harmony. I think we still exist and I'm not sure what is next but I believe nature, our creator, or God, whatever we call it does take care of that so we don't have to worry about it. We just do the very best we can in the time we are given. I don't worry about the past anymore or the future. Mindfulness makes the most sense to me because the present is all we can be sure of. I think life is a lot less complicated than we make it and the simpler we live the happier we are. I am also making an effort to get rid of any non essential personal belongings so when I do move on the material stuff will not be a burden for my family unless it is something they could use or want to keep as a momento of me. When my mother died it hit me really hard and that was three years ago and I still think of her everyday and communicate with her. I lost other relatives but when she left this plain of existence I really knew it was going to happen to me too as I couldn't imagine my mother not being here. I miss her but I am happy and I know she is happy too and I will see her again so no worries. Queenmum, I believe your husband is just on that other plain and he is waiting for you to join him when the time comes. Be happy and live this part of your journey to the fullest. He is OK and wouldn't want you to be sad. This is just one of the transitions we all go through. I know I could be wrong but I trust that the bigger forces will guide us along to our next destination at just the right time and someday all of it will make sense to us.


Beautifully said, Cheeky! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We are all on this trip together, even when our connections are as tenuous as those we have through this electronic medium... I do believe everything is part of a greater Whole, and each life is vital to that greater Whole.

_Do Not Engage..._


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Some good quotes from Mark Twain:

Never argue with an Idiot  it will drag you down to it's level and beat you with experience.

Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.

Patriot: the person who can holler the loudest without knowing what he is hollering about.

Be careful about reading health books. You may die of a misprint


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

NJG said:


> W is the one I could not listen to. I had to mute him or switch channels. At least now he has had the good sense to keep quiet. Wish Rummy & Cheney would do the same. Rummy said athe other day about the President, "He just needs to suck it up and take responsibility." My mouth dropped open, amazed that he had the ba--- to say that. What a jerk. He has never taken reesponsibility for his actions.


Definitely a known truth, NJG. I think you all would enjoy LANDSLIDE because it sheds light on what was going on in the background of White House as the President was less and less able to comprehend and the staff scrambled to keep his condition under wraps and the executive branch between the rails. They had to discuss whether they had grounds to remove him from office. Doubt if Pat saw that in the stars...

Do Not Engage...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


I too love football. Watch my Iowa Hawkeyes, they won today, and will watch most any Big 10 game and then also the Bears. Try to keep up with all the Hawkeyes that have moved on to the NFL.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> It is refreshing to hear you say that. People around here think he is so special. I never listened to him the entire time he was in office, always changed channels or turned off the tv. I always thought he was a little demented.


miatalover66
you thought right, his mental problems started long before he announced suffering from it. His Son confirmed it. It was so obvious that something was wrong, Nancy freqently finished his sentences. All he really was is a Puppet. Probably a nice Man in private.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Enjoy the game, al. I am just reading and peeking in and out tonight. Good night to be inside. It's hot and humid outside.


Patty, Al really is a jock. I think back in the day if they had competitive women's athletics she would have been out there with the best of them. I think she would have been a good basketball player. It is good she does vent this way as the rest of us are a lot safer so I thank you for that, Al. I would have been a jock in high school had any sports existed for girls. Probably, would have played softball and run sprints in track. I was pretty fast back in my youth and played a lot of baseball with the boys growing up and I could hold my own.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> W is the one I could not listen to. I had to mute him or switch channels. At least now he has had the good sense to keep quiet. Wish Rummy & Cheney would do the same. Rummy said athe other day about the President, "He just needs to suck it up and take responsibility." My mouth dropped open, amazed that he had the ba--- to say that. What a jerk. He has never taken reesponsibility for his actions.


I could not stand him either, between him and Ronnie I did not watch tv much during those sixteen years. It was the only way I could survive.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


alcameron
may your team play well. Enjoy.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Enjoy the game, al. I am just reading and peeking in and out tonight. Good night to be inside. It's hot and humid outside.


It is really hot an humid here too Patty. I don't know how we survived without central air growing up. Had a lot of restless nights on the floor sharing a small oscillating fan with my three siblings.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Are the leaves falling yet down there, Cheeky? I'm afraid we won't have the beautiful fall color this year.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> W is the one I could not listen to. I had to mute him or switch channels. At least now he has had the good sense to keep quiet. Wish Rummy & Cheney would do the same. Rummy said athe other day about the President, "He just needs to suck it up and take responsibility." My mouth dropped open, amazed that he had the ba--- to say that. What a jerk. He has never taken reesponsibility for his actions.


Cheney, Bush and Rummy should have all been tried for war crimes. Cheney made a fortune in the Middle East. WMD's my eye. It was all about the money and oil. The GOP conveniently doesn't mention the Bush family is a member of the world's oil cartel and they accused Obama of bowing to the House of Saud! George and Dick did a lot more for them than bow. Many in our Armed Forces came back from the Middle East, including my son, saying we weren't over there fighting for freedom we were mercenaries for the Oil Cartel and nothing more.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Beautifully said, Cheeky! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. We are all on this trip together, even when our connections are as tenuous as those we have through this electronic medium... I do believe everything is part of a greater Whole, and each life is vital to that greater Whole.
> 
> _Do Not Engage..._


Exactly, midwegian. That's why we take care of each other and everything else on the planet. We are all moving through space together and have to do our best to keep everything gliding along in harmony. I wouldn't want to have to try and live on another planet. I really like mother earth just fine.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Exactly, midwegian. That's why we take care of each other and everything else on the planet. We are all moving through space together and have to do our best to keep everything gliding along in harmony. I wouldn't want to have to try and live on another planet. I really like mother earth just fine.


Have you heard of people that have had their loved ones "come to accompany them?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> I too love football. Watch my Iowa Hawkeyes, they won today, and will watch most any Big 10 game and then also the Bears. Try to keep up with all the Hawkeyes that have moved on to the NFL.


We couldn't even watch the MN Gophers here today. Seems like every other college game was on but U of M. One of my nieces is a Hawkeye NJG. We have so much competition going on in the family with the different alma maters it is hard to know who to cheer for sometimes. Really gets difficult at the end of the college football season. I just keep my mouth shut and knit.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We couldn't even watch the MN Gophers here today. Seems like every other college game was on but U of M. One of my nieces is a Hawkeye NJG. We have so much competition going on in the family with the different alma maters it is hard to know who to cheer for sometimes. Really gets difficult at the end of the college football season. I just keep my mouth shut and knit.


DH was looking for the Gophers today, too, Cheeky. We ended up watching part of the Gator's game.I needed a haircut, so we shut of the TV and ventured out.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheney, Bush and Rummy should have all been tried for war crimes. Cheney made a fortune in the Middle East. WMD's my eye. It was all about the money and oil. The GOP conveniently doesn't mention the Bush family is a member of the world's oil cartel and they accused Obama of bowing to the House of Saud! George and Dick did a lot more for them than bow. Many in our Armed Forces came back from the Middle East, including my son, saying we weren't over there fighting for freedom we were mercenaries for the Oil Cartel and nothing more.


In my best dreams the Hauge brings them up on charges!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> In my best dreams the Hauge brings them up on charges!


What is taking them so long?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> What is taking them so long?


Fear?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheney, Bush and Rummy should have all been tried for war crimes. Cheney made a fortune in the Middle East. WMD's my eye. It was all about the money and oil. The GOP conveniently doesn't mention the Bush family is a member of the world's oil cartel and they accused Obama of bowing to the House of Saud! George and Dick did a lot more for them than bow. Many in our Armed Forces came back from the Middle East, including my son, saying we weren't over there fighting for freedom we were mercenaries for the Oil Cartel and nothing more.


Cheeky Blighter
That is what angers me so much, the greed of some cost thousands their Life and tens of thousand suffering for the of their lives. So right, they should be tried for War Crimes. Despicable individuals they are.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> That is what angers me so much, the greed of some cost thousands their Life and tens of thousand suffering for the of their lives. So right, they should be been tried for War Crimes. Despicable individuals they are.


I am in complete agreement here. 
Hi Huck!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> DH was looking for the Gophers today, too, Cheeky. We ended up watching part of the Gator's game.I needed a haircut, so we shut of the TV and ventured out.


I think you could have watched the Gophers online like I did. It's almost over, or it may be by now. Gophers won, but it wasn't a Big 10 game. or is it Big 12 by now? Next up: our Netflix movie, and tomorrow morning I have to suffer through Christian Ponder and the Vikings. Things don't bode well for the Vikes unless Christian has finally improved.
Nighty night Cheeky, Patty, Peace, Huck, NJG, and the new ladies. 
(Despite what Cheeky says, I really am not a jock!)
Good night John-boy. Couldn't resist.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am in complete agreement here.
> Hi Huck!


Me too


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am in complete agreement here.
> Hi Huck!


Bratty Patty
Hi Patty. These Monsters still put their faces in the news as Experts. Some guts they have but then it is Faux News who is parading them. Next they will have Bachmann on board. What a crew Palin and Bachmann. That will set Women back hundreds of years and that is by design. The male superiors want to show how stupid Women are to keep them under foot. Nothing is concidence. Would love to have an ear on the board Room Walls.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Arizona is very, very conservative. Think Barry Goldwater with too-tight shoes.



peacegoddess said:


> How about your local school board? Local politics needs independent thinkers and we all know what a state our schools are in!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is really hot an humid here too Patty. I don't know how we survived without central air growing up. Had a lot of restless nights on the floor sharing a small oscillating fan with my three siblings.


Cheeky Blighter
It is interesting to drive through older neighborhoods and see every house with a Front Porch which in years past was used for sleeping on hot summer nights. How times have changed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Isn't it especially nice that we can give "hints" about what we believe, understand that it is supremely personal, accept what the others think or what we think they think and not go down the "I know the one true way, anyone else is wrong" road. I guess that merits a ??


It really is nice that we can express ourselves and have mutual respect for each other. I would never want to impose my beliefs on anyone else or have them do that to me. I feel sorry for people who believe that only a select few who ever lived on the planet know the "truth". I can remember asking my mom about this in grade school when some kids at school were saying who was going to "heaven" and who wasn't. I was one of them that wasn't going to make it. She asked me what I thought was going to happen. I told her I believed if God loved everyone he would include all of us and it didn't make sense what these kids said. Mom said God gave you a brain to use and if it doesn't make sense it probably is not so. That satisfied me and I have continued to make decisions based on that principal. I also have learned that circumstances can change along the way and sometimes you have to make adjustments to your belief system as you acquire more knowledge and that is OK too. It is like being on a raft and floating down a river and sometimes as the current changes you have to make some minor adjustments to the course you are on.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds interesting. I'll look it up. Thanks.

Do not engage.



midwegian said:


> Jane Mayer has written a book called LANDSLIDE which covers Reagan's 2nd term. The best written on the Iran/Contra affair and very eye-opening on the President's mental status at the time... his Alzheimer's was beginning to be obvious and the staff was facing difficult decisions.
> 
> _Do not engage..._


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

This is like we are all sitting around the living room knitting and solving the world's problems, except I'm not getting much knitting done! Love it anyway!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your question is valid, especially for any religious person who believes in life after death.

My husband eats most of the peanut butter around here, and he likes creamy.

I'm at a loss for words. (Do I hear cheering?)



jelun2 said:


> Here is something that I really don't understand.
> If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?
> 
> Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It really is nice that we can express ourselves and have mutual respect for each other. I would never want to impose my beliefs on anyone else or have them do that to me. I feel sorry for people who believe that only a select few who ever lived on the planet know the "truth". I can remember asking my mom about this in grade school when some kids at school were saying who was going to "heaven" and who wasn't. I was one of them that wasn't going to make it. She asked me what I thought was going to happen. I told her I believed if God loved everyone he would include all of us and it didn't make sense what these kids said. Mom said God gave you a brain to use and if it doesn't make sense it probably is not so. That satisfied me and I have continued to make decisions based on that principal. I also have learned that circumstances can change along the way and sometimes you have to make adjustments to your belief system as you acquire more knowledge and that is OK too. It is like being on a raft and floating down a river and sometimes as the current changes you have to make some minor adjustments to the course you are on.


Cheeky Blighter
Thank you. Our Parents always told us, you have a brain, use it, think for yourself. And as we move on in Life, the experience we gain does sculpt our opinions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

midwegian said:


> You are speaking to two very prevalent thoughts of mine... I love the extra crunch in the peanut butter so much... Such a simple joy!
> 
> I have struggled with the fact that I have a lot less time left on earth than I ever have, and that I'm not going to get out of here alive. Lately, I realized my life is just the undercard for the main event: What happens after death. My mother, sisters and I made a pact just before she died that she would let us know if what we've believed about the afterlife was true... she chose a specific emblem which she would send to us after she passed a way. My 2 sisters got their emblems before the funeral...mine came months later but was staggeringly clear. So now, I truly try to live these remaining years in training for the BIG EVENT! I want to die the best way I know how, which can only be done by living the best life I can now!
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are the leaves falling yet down there, Cheeky? I'm afraid we won't have the beautiful fall color this year.


There are some leaves changing but I think it is because they are dying for lack of rain and they aren't the vibrant colors we had last year. I guess we need lots of rain and cool nights for the best color and we aren't getting either one. Hope that changes. We did have 9 wild turkeys in here this morning and that was a first. I wonder if that is any indication of what the fall and winter will be like? We have tons of cones in our pine trees and that is supposed to mean a cold winter.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I recently had a discussion with one of my clients about end of life decisions. I cat sit for them, but their elderly mother who lives in an apt unit below their home is quite frail and often talks about being tired of living. So, in addition to caring for the cats I check in on her mother and make sure she is eating and moving around and being active (for her age and strength level). We have interesting talks, she was a teen interned at Manzanar during WWII.


You are very kind to undertake this challenge, and I feel quite sure you will find it rewarding.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 is right of course. Memories never leave us.....unless it's what I did with the car keys.

My heartfelt condolences, queenmum.



jelun2 said:


> I am so sorry for your loss, Queenmum, whichever way it may be your husband is not "completely" gone. He lives in your memories. Please wrap that around yourself and feel soothed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Thank you. Our Parents always told us, you have a brain, use it, think for yourself. And as we move on in Life, the experience we gain does sculpt our opinions.


It sure does, Huck. All the more reason for good public schools for all children too. A good education is the greatest gift we can give our kids.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Here is something that I really don't understand.
> If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?
> 
> Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


jelun2
Outstanding question. That thought hit me when being in the presence of a Priest who was not well and he had great fear of dying. Go figure.

Peanut Butter: the crunchier the better. Anything crunchy is to my liking.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Isn't it especially nice that we can give "hints" about what we believe, understand that it is supremely personal, accept what the others think or what we think they think and not go down the "I know the one true way, anyone else is wrong" road. I guess that merits a ??


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I think we must all find our own way, and we must respect others' beliefs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> This is like we are all sitting around the living room knitting and solving the world's problems, except I'm not getting much knitting done! Love it anyway!


Mia I just read your post and was thinking the same thing. Just having a nice relaxing chat with friends. This is how it should be. I haven't mastered typing while knitting either but now this is what I need. I do hope we will have many more times like this. I too am loving it. Now if I had some tea and cookies I would be totally content.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It sure does, Huck. All the more reason for good public schools for all children too. A good education is the greatest gift we can give our kids.


Cheeky Blighter
Those who set the standards for our Schools need to be replaced. Teachers need to be in charge not some Paper Pusher who has no clue about teaching. Most of the so-called Experts have never taught, not even for an hour. Every job needs to be learned from the ground up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love Steeler games. Good workout. hugs



alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

NJG said:


> It has been five months since a fertilizer plant exploded in West, Texaskilling 14 people and injuring 200. The plant stored explosive ammonium nitratebut had no alarms, no automatic shutoff system, no firewall and no sprinkler system. And it was across the street from a school.
> 
> But when Texas fire inspectors attempted to step up its enforcement, five chemical plants simply denied them access. And nothing under Texas law mandates that they allow such inspections
> 
> ...


What really gets me about what happened in West, TX, is that they and other such businesses have regulations to follow, but they are allowed to be self-reporting, and it the number of federal inspectors is minute so plants like the one in TX can go merrily about their business with almost no fear whatsoever that they will ever be inspected. Self-reporting, ha! Like businesses that aren't following the regulations that apply to them are going to report what they're doing. :thumbdown: :!: :hunf:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I wonder if it is really a fear of dying or the fear of the unknown? In my younger years I was afraid of death. You couldn't get me to a funeral. But I think as life goes on and you have a better sense of who you are and what you believe, then the fear ebbs. 
I don't believe that it all ends at death. My Grandmother was talking to her sister. This particular sister died 3 mos earlier. We didn't tell my GM because the Parkinsons was taking it's toll on her. Her words were "I didn't know you passed, Ethel. I'm ready to come with you now." She was staring at the wall behind my mother.
She also talked to several sisters who preceded her in death. She passed within an hour of those conversations. She was completely at peace before she died.
I hope that my loved ones will come to meet me when it's time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That dropping the ball short of the end zone upset a lot of people. I hope he got chewed out royally, although he must have been embarrassed already. Too late smart.



midwegian said:


> Thanks for your candor, Al! I must admit that I have become a football fan over the last year, but I blame it on my knitting. A football game gives me a wonderful excuse to sit & knit. I then get caught up in the game and make a fool of myself, here in front of my dogs and cats. When Travathon dropped the ball just before the end zone in the Ravens/Broncos game at Denver the neighbors probably thought my house was being invaded! The dogs went to the bedroom until I settled down. But I did get 4 gorgeous inches of a beautiful navy merino/camel sweater front done (thank you Debbie Bliss)!
> 
> When football ends, there's basketball. Not nearly so interesting since the players started wearing culottes.
> 
> _DO NOT ENGAGE...._


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As the poster says, 'Jane Wyman was right.'



Huckleberry said:


> miatalover66
> you thought right, his mental problems started long before he announced suffering from it. His Son confirmed it. It was so obvious that something was wrong, Nancy freqently finished his sentences. All he really was is a Puppet. Probably a nice Man in private.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wouldn't it be loverly?



peacegoddess said:


> In my best dreams the Hauge brings them up on charges!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Money.



peacegoddess said:


> Fear?


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I wonder if it is really a fear of dying or the fear of the unknown? In my younger years I was afraid of death. You couldn't get me to a funeral. But I think as life goes on and you have a better sense of who you are and what you believe, then the fear ebbs.
> I don't believe that it all ends at death. My Grandmother was talking to her sister. This particular sister died 3 mos earlier. We didn't tell my GM because the Parkinsons was taking it's toll on her. Her words were "I didn't know you passed, Ethel. I'm ready to come with you now." She was staring at the wall behind my mother.
> She also talked to several sisters who preceded her in death. She passed within an hour of those conversations. She was completely at peace before she died.
> I hope that my loved ones will come to meet me when it's time.


What a lovely story, and I mean that in a good way. A friend died last week and she was just a month younger than me. She loved to knit but had to give it up, her arthritis got too bad. She left behind a wonderful husband and three daughters, one expecting her third child in about a month. It was so sudden and I feel such sadness for her family.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't forget me. Sleep well.



alcameron said:


> I think you could have watched the Gophers online like I did. It's almost over, or it may be by now. Gophers won, but it wasn't a Big 10 game. or is it Big 12 by now? Next up: our Netflix movie, and tomorrow morning I have to suffer through Christian Ponder and the Vikings. Things don't bode well for the Vikes unless Christian has finally improved.
> Nighty night Cheeky, Patty, Peace, Huck, NJG, and the new ladies.
> (Despite what Cheeky says, I really am not a jock!)
> Good night John-boy. Couldn't resist.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> This is like we are all sitting around the living room knitting and solving the world's problems, except I'm not getting much knitting done! Love it anyway!


it is difficult to knit when it is too warm. And it seldom gets too warm in SF, but today is too warm to knit.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Speaks volumes about the folks who will mindlessly watch them.



Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Hi Patty. These Monsters still put their faces in the news as Experts. Some guts they have but then it is Faux News who is parading them. Next they will have Bachmann on board. What a crew Palin and Bachmann. That will set Women back hundreds of years and that is by design. The male superiors want to show how stupid Women are to keep them under foot. Nothing is concidence. Would love to have an ear on the board Room Walls.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It really is nice that we can express ourselves and have mutual respect for each other. I would never want to impose my beliefs on anyone else or have them do that to me. I feel sorry for people who believe that only a select few who ever lived on the planet know the "truth". I can remember asking my mom about this in grade school when some kids at school were saying who was going to "heaven" and who wasn't. I was one of them that wasn't going to make it. She asked me what I thought was going to happen. I told her I believed if God loved everyone he would include all of us and it didn't make sense what these kids said. Mom said God gave you a brain to use and if it doesn't make sense it probably is not so. That satisfied me and I have continued to make decisions based on that principal. I also have learned that circumstances can change along the way and sometimes you have to make adjustments to your belief system as you acquire more knowledge and that is OK too. It is like being on a raft and floating down a river and sometimes as the current changes you have to make some minor adjustments to the course you are on.


     Thanks Mom.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It was 91 dg in my part of Minnesota, Peace. Now it's 71, but still very humid. I know how you feel!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> Thank you. Our Parents always told us, you have a brain, use it, think for yourself. And as we move on in Life, the experience we gain does sculpt our opinions.


 :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D Onward from moment to moment.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Well, people are capable of believing many contradictory things. I'll happily take another 64 years in the hope that I can act on some of the things I'm just beginning to understand. In the grand scheme of things, if there's a Heaven, 64 years is a mere moment, and I don't feel like I'm idling in some waiting room wishing I hadn't forgotten to bring a book.

Crunchy peanut butter is being improved. It's one little thing that's getting better instead of worse. The thing that amazed me recently was buying 3 Musskeyeers bar and discovering it had a chocolate filing that had enough chocolate in that I could see and taste the difference.


jelun2 said:


> Here is something that I really don't understand.
> If life on earth is supposed to be the waiting room, so to speak, for going to Heaven why is it that people resist the end of life, both for themselves and those they love, with so much vigor?
> 
> Second question: Do you notice how much more crunch they put in crunchy peanut butter these days?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Hi Patty. These Monsters still put their faces in the news as Experts. Some guts they have but then it is Faux News who is parading them. Next they will have Bachmann on board. What a crew Palin and Bachmann. That will set Women back hundreds of years and that is by design. The male superiors want to show how stupid Women are to keep them under foot. Nothing is concidence. Would love to have an ear on the board Room Walls.


I think Bachmann's political career is over, Huck. Unless she takes a run for Prez again. Pailn is in my opinion, well , nothing but a quitter. Fox can parade them around, but it doesn't give more quality to the "merchandise".


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ladies, it's been fun, but I am sleepy and off to meet the sandman. Have a great night!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tea Party! How I resent that they almost spoiled that phrase.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Mia I just read your post and was thinking the same thing. Just having a nice relaxing chat with friends. This is how it should be. I haven't mastered typing while knitting either but now this is what I need. I do hope we will have many more times like this. I too am loving it. Now if I had some tea and cookies I would be totally content.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What really gets me about what happened in West, TX, is that they and other such businesses have regulations to follow, but they are allowed to be self-reporting, and it the number of federal inspectors is minute so plants like the one in TX can go merrily about their business with almost no fear whatsoever that they will ever be inspected. Self-reporting, ha! Like businesses that aren't following the regulations that apply to them are going to report what they're doing. :thumbdown: :!: :hunf:


And we let them get away with it.

:hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We're having a heat wave, too. We have no AC, but at night we have to have the fans going. It hasn't been humid, though.


The what's been something else, hasn't it? We had watermelon salad last night and tomight it was potato salad, cold turkey with a lime and honey drizzle, and mango jello with crushed nectarines and watermelon in it. It's supposed to be a little cooler tomorrow so I'll dare to be outside for awhile and go to the Y after Mass.

I'm staying up a while longer than usual so I can keep the doors and windows open. I think I can feel a tiny bit of ocean damp in the air.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let's not talk about the weather. Today was the first day under 100 degrees in months. Not good for the knitting. Bazinga.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I was just listening to this hymn while catching up with this topic. I've always like these kinds of hymns, and the idea of just crossing over Jordan, or going to Canaan's Land as some have it. I don't mind if there's a Heaven or not. It can't be proved, and is a matter of belief and faith. I don't mind finding comsolation in hymns while I'm in this world, though.

This hymn was used in the movie "Cold Mountain" and was something that would be sung then along with many similar hymns. It dates back to the early 19th century as far as anyone can pin it down.

Wayfaring Stranger

I'm just a poor wayfaring stranger
I'm traveling through this world of woe
Yet there's no sickness, toil nor danger
In that bright land to which I go
I'm going there to see my mother/father
I'm going there no more to roam
I'm only going over Jordan
I'm only going over home

I know dark clouds will gather 'round me
I know my way is rough and steep
Yet golden fields lie just before me
Where God's redeemed shall ever sleep
I'm going there to see my father/mother
S/he said he'd/she'd meet me when I come
I'm only going over Jordan
I'm only going over home

I want to wear a crown of glory
When I get home to that good land
I want to shout salvation's story
In concert with the blood-washed band
I'm going there to meet my Saviour
To sing his praise forever more
I'm just a-going over Jordan
I'm just a-going over home


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was 91 dg in my part of Minnesota, Peace. Now it's 71, but still very humid. I know how you feel!


I still have the rug for my friend to finish and I just cannot knit on something that is very thick and very long in weather that is in the 80's. i need a snow storm to finish it!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey MIB - Here is my story about HHH. Back in 1970 I was going to the Guthrie theater with a friend of mine. We both happened to be pregnant and quite huge at the time. As we were walking up the stairs out in front of the theater my girlfriend turned back to see where I was and she got a huge smile on her face and said quite loudly, "Hubert". I turned around and right behind me was Mr. Humphrey. Ann walked down the steps towards him and he gave her a big hug and started talking to her. She matter of factly turned towards me and introduced me to him and he gave me a big hug too. He asked us about ourselves and he absolutely glowed. I had heard about people having auras and he had one. We chatted a bit and then he walked up the steps with us and into the lobby and said if we ever needed anything to just give him a call. We were thrilled. Humphrey was a legend in my Union family and I could hardly wait to tell everyone about our meeting him. He was as wonderful as I had thought he would be and I think he would have made a great president but it wasn't to be. He is buried in the same cemetery as my in-laws and we always visit his grave when we go there. 
I just smile and say "Hi Mr. Humphrey". He really took good care of the people of Minnesota and was very loved by the people of the state. Hope my story puts a little smile on your face too. Cheeky


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We couldn't even watch the MN Gophers here today. Seems like every other college game was on but U of M. One of my nieces is a Hawkeye NJG. We have so much competition going on in the family with the different alma maters it is hard to know who to cheer for sometimes. Really gets difficult at the end of the college football season. I just keep my mouth shut and knit.


Sometimes that is best. My son in law is a Packer Backer and I have always disliked the Packers, so I try to keep quiet and act interested. Some people can really be offended if you go against their team.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I was just listening to this hymn while catching up with this topic. I've always like these kinds of hymns, and the idea of just crossing over Jordan, or going to Canaan's Land as some have it. I don't mind if there's a Heaven or not. It can't be proved, and is a matter of belief and faith. I don't mind finding comsolation in hymns while I'm in this world, though.
> 
> This hymn was used in the movie "Cold Mountain" and was something that would be sung then along with many similar hymns. It dates back to the early 19th century as far as anyone can pin it down.
> 
> ...


Beautiful song, MIB. Thanks for sharing it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Well Ladies, I am off to bed. Sweet dreams and a restful sleep. Hope to see you all again very soon. Bazinga!


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> And we let them get away with it.
> 
> :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


And I think they only have scheduled inspections when they have them. They have time to get ready for those.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Good night everyone.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Your story puts a big smile on my face and a tear in my eye. HHH was very well thought of in my Union family, too. I'm sure he had an aura. I'm sure he was charismastic and also a decent man, a rarity in politics. My Dad was the one who discussed the phenomenon of putting someone in the Vice Presidency as a way to keep them from the Presidency which they deserved but who scared too many establismhent politicians. Thanks for the wonderful story.:thumbup: :thumbup:


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hey MIB - Here is my story about HHH. Back in 1970 I was going to the Guthrie theater with a friend of mine. We both happened to be pregnant and quite huge at the time. As we were walking up the stairs out in front of the theater my girlfriend turned back to see where I was and she got a huge smile on her face and said quite loudly, "Hubert". I turned around and right behind me was Mr. Humphrey. Ann walked down the steps towards him and he gave her a big hug and started talking to her. She matter of factly turned towards me and introduced me to him and he gave me a big hug too. He asked us about ourselves and he absolutely glowed. I had heard about people having auras and he had one. We chatted a bit and then he walked up the steps with us and into the lobby and said if we ever needed anything to just give him a call. We were thrilled. Humphrey was a legend in my Union family and I could hardly wait to tell everyone about our meeting him. He was as wonderful as I had thought he would be and I think he would have made a great president but it wasn't to be. He is buried in the same cemetery as my in-laws and we always visit his grave when we go there.
> I just smile and say "Hi Mr. Humphrey". He really took good care of the people of Minnesota and was very loved by the people of the state. Hope my story puts a little smile on your face too. Cheeky


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thinking about Syria, war in general and what I believe, I needed to listen to this somg by Bob Dylan.

Masters of War

Come you masters of war
You that build the big guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs

You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy

You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Well like a Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe

But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
And then you sit back and watch
When the death count gets higher

And you hide in your mansion
All the young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world

Oh for threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know?
Oh to talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned

But there's a one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Well let me ask you one question
Is your money that good?
Oh will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could?

I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death will come soon
I'll follow your casket
By the pale afternoon

And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
Till I'm sure that you're dead


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Just as a last post I must admit to a guilty pleasure, while at other people's homes I watch TV and have become enamoured by the show Longmire. Some strange romantic involvement with the idealism of cowboys/girls and the great outdoors and wildwest. And the best craziness is the character (male) that I like the most is Ferg.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, maybe that is what I need. I could become a big football fan. My daughter who lives here is, and the urge to smack some nitwit is probably why. However, she likes all sports, I think, even those semi-sports in which they drive vehicles that only make left turns.

Oh, I hear the pitter patter of little feet over my head. Heaven.



alcameron said:


> Good evening, ladies. I'm on a 10minute half-time break from watching my alma mater play New Mexico State on my iPad. I always tell people right up front that I'm a big football fan and let them decide if they still want to interact with me. I'm really not a big jock. My friends will vouch for me. I think I watch to get the violent streak out of me. Better than choking someone.
> So I'll peek in from time to time to see what's going on.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I understand that so many were duped into going to Iraq. I am not sure why anyone ever thought it was for freedom. What I don't understand is why we cannot go now for humanitarian reasons. Not that I want to, I want to believe that we can go in and out, it either works (though, I am not sure what works means) or not. 
Air strikes, period, is what I would like to see. 
I don't really understand what money has to do with it. That just proves that I am a raving lib, I guess.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheney, Bush and Rummy should have all been tried for war crimes. Cheney made a fortune in the Middle East. WMD's my eye. It was all about the money and oil. The GOP conveniently doesn't mention the Bush family is a member of the world's oil cartel and they accused Obama of bowing to the House of Saud! George and Dick did a lot more for them than bow. Many in our Armed Forces came back from the Middle East, including my son, saying we weren't over there fighting for freedom we were mercenaries for the Oil Cartel and nothing more.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

G'night, NJG.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I understand that so many were duped into going to Iraq. I am not sure why anyone ever thought it was for freedom. What I don't understand is why we cannot go now for humanitarian reasons. Not that I want to, I want to believe that we can go in and out, it either works (though, I am not sure what works means) or not.
> Air strikes, period, is what I would like to see.
> I don't really understand what money has to do with it. That just proves that I am a raving lib, I guess.


How about we do a massive air lift of women and children out of Syria?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Some good quotes from Mark Twain:
> 
> Never argue with an Idiot  it will drag you down to it's level and beat you with experience.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: 
Smart man, that Samuel Clemens.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Mia I just read your post and was thinking the same thing. Just having a nice relaxing chat with friends. This is how it should be. I haven't mastered typing while knitting either but now this is what I need. I do hope we will have many more times like this. I too am loving it. Now if I had some tea and cookies I would be totally content.


I am also having a really hard time with knitting while working. Sheesh! I think I am going to get so much done and the next thing I know the day is over and I have done 2 rows, I am working on an afghan for my littlest pal as he has transitioned to a toddler bed... it may be ready by next July!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That works for me, and would ultimately be less expensive as well, I imagine. 
Detroit?



peacegoddess said:


> How about we do a massive air lift of women and children out of Syria?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I always preferred this to Dylan. 
Originally drafted by Pete Seeger in response to the actions of those donkeys on the House UnAmerican Activities Committee.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, "donkeys" I sound like my mother who had a much nicer mouth than her daughter does. At least she did until she decided that she was old enough to say any darn thing she wanted. She loved saying "bastages".


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I heard today that tomorrow's war will not be over oil but over water. So many places on earth are facing dwindling fresh water supplies. We can live without oil but we cannot live without fresh water


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

OMG. If we had months of over 100 degree weather I would not be wondering any longer about any questions of recycling of the soul. Though, it may be coming to a NE state near me. 
I may have to beg the Canadian branch of my mother's family to take me in.



damemary said:


> Let's not talk about the weather. Today was the first day under 100 degrees in months. Not good for the knitting. Bazinga.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I heard today that tomorrow's war will not be over oil but over water. So many places on earth are facing dwindling fresh water supplies. We can live without oil but we cannot live without fresh water


I have a "friend" on FB who posts some very interesting articles. Most of what she posts has at least some validity, some is easily (word retrieval issue here) denied, shown to be false. 
She posted a piece claiming that the civil war in Syria, how did that happen BTW?, is really based on water shortages.
I don't think this is the article that I saw on FB, it poses the question concerning those views that water may be our next oil, I think.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/06/drought-helped-spark-syrias-civil-war-is-it-the-first-of-many-climate-wars-to-come/

This link addresses some of my questions of how Syria seemed to go from what seemed to be peaceful demonstrations to civil war in moments. 
http://thebulletin.org/climate-change-and-syrian-uprising


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Great anecdote, Cheeky. Hubert Humphrey was not one to look to see if the cameras were running or not before interacting with people. He was genuine and a man of great character. Wish we had a Humphrey dynasty instead of a Bush one. Our middle class would be in a better place, and I believe our economy would be too.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hey MIB - Here is my story about HHH. Back in 1970 I was going to the Guthrie theater with a friend of mine. We both happened to be pregnant and quite huge at the time. As we were walking up the stairs out in front of the theater my girlfriend turned back to see where I was and she got a huge smile on her face and said quite loudly, "Hubert". I turned around and right behind me was Mr. Humphrey. Ann walked down the steps towards him and he gave her a big hug and started talking to her. She matter of factly turned towards me and introduced me to him and he gave me a big hug too. He asked us about ourselves and he absolutely glowed. I had heard about people having auras and he had one. We chatted a bit and then he walked up the steps with us and into the lobby and said if we ever needed anything to just give him a call. We were thrilled. Humphrey was a legend in my Union family and I could hardly wait to tell everyone about our meeting him. He was as wonderful as I had thought he would be and I think he would have made a great president but it wasn't to be. He is buried in the same cemetery as my in-laws and we always visit his grave when we go there.
> I just smile and say "Hi Mr. Humphrey". He really took good care of the people of Minnesota and was very loved by the people of the state. Hope my story puts a little smile on your face too. Cheeky


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've illustrated the power of Bob Dylan's poetry several times and also illustrated the thought behind hymns. Keep it coming. I agree that music touches us in many ways. I'm delighted to have all the words I've missed over the years. Thank you.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Thinking about Syria, war in general and what I believe, I needed to listen to this somg by Bob Dylan.
> 
> Masters of War
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So happy for you. Enjoy the family. It's a precious time.



jelun2 said:


> Oh, maybe that is what I need. I could become a big football fan. My daughter who lives here is, and the urge to smack some nitwit is probably why. However, she likes all sports, I think, even those semi-sports in which they drive vehicles that only make left turns.
> 
> Oh, I hear the pitter patter of little feet over my head. Heaven.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I understand that so many were duped into going to Iraq. I am not sure why anyone ever thought it was for freedom. What I don't understand is why we cannot go now for humanitarian reasons. Not that I want to, I want to believe that we can go in and out, it either works (though, I am not sure what works means) or not.
> Air strikes, period, is what I would like to see.
> I don't really understand what money has to do with it. That just proves that I am a raving lib, I guess.


Me too. Well put. I also feel that President Obama has earned our support. He knows the details and has a careful, deliberate mind. He's not dashing in to make money for the oil industry and all his friends. I see the world trying to avoid war as in pre-WWII. If we let innocents be murdered without action, when do we act? For oil? For influence? America has lost it's moral compass. IMNO


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It would be better than waiting until Assad and his merry men put on rags and head for the refugee centers. Shows what we're up against.



peacegoddess said:


> How about we do a massive air lift of women and children out of Syria?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know. Between the heat and interruptions, my knitting is suffering too. Maybe a little fall weather in the air?



jelun2 said:


> I am also having a really hard time with knitting while working. Sheesh! I think I am going to get so much done and the next thing I know the day is over and I have done 2 rows, I am working on an afghan for my littlest pal as he has transitioned to a toddler bed... it may be ready by next July!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're touching my heart. Thanks. 
'


jelun2 said:


> I always preferred this to Dylan.
> Originally drafted by Pete Seeger in response to the actions of those donkeys on the House UnAmerican Activities Committee.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OOOOOO OOOOO how old do I have to be until I can say anything I want? Do you get a 'get out of jail free card' for your birthday first?



jelun2 said:


> LOL, "donkeys" I sound like my mother who had a much nicer mouth than her daughter does. At least she did until she decided that she was old enough to say any darn thing she wanted. She loved saying "bastages".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I live in the dry Southwest and we have been struggling with this dilemma for many years. Conservation is a start, but by no means the entire answer.



EveMCooke said:


> I heard today that tomorrow's war will not be over oil but over water. So many places on earth are facing dwindling fresh water supplies. We can live without oil but we cannot live without fresh water


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gets my mind off the heat.



jelun2 said:


> OMG. If we had months of over 100 degree weather I would not be wondering any longer about any questions of recycling of the soul. Though, it may be coming to a NE state near me.
> I may have to beg the Canadian branch of my mother's family to take me in.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Morning, ladies. Sorry I missed you yesterday--got sucked into an argument on another thread regarding tax rates for the wealthy, then abandoned the site for the day out of disgust.

Frankly I feel there's far too much talk on the right about how a decent yearly income is incentive for all Americans to "get ahead". No one will deny the justice of fair day's pay for a good day's work--but the sums generated by the wealthy have become entirely divorced from reality. George Washington was arguably the richest man in colonial America (net worth 550 million in modern dollars), but modern well-to-do Americans make him look like a piker.

I took the liberty of checking Forbes' list of the richest people in American, then did some calculations. Based on their average yearly income,

Ross Perot could put a space shuttle into orbit (775 M)

Ted Turner could build one (2B)

Ralph Lauren could foot the bill for the entire Civil War (7B)

Warren Buffett could feed every hungry man, woman, and child in the world for a period of two weeks (46B)

Bill Gates could give a crisp new dollar bill (a day's wages in many countries) to _every person who ever existed!_ (66B)

Kind of a shocker, isn't it?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I have a "friend" on FB who posts some very interesting articles. Most of what she posts has at least some validity, some is easily (word retrieval issue here) denied, shown to be false.
> She posted a piece claiming that the civil war in Syria, how did that happen BTW?, is really based on water shortages.
> I don't think this is the article that I saw on FB, it poses the question concerning those views that water may be our next oil, I think.
> 
> ...


There is credibility to the idea that drought is a precoursor to social upheavel. Crops fail, prices for food rise, poor people feel more threatened, rich people feel threatened and perhaps defensive, the list goes on.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I hope you're eating some chocolate while watching TV. It cancels out the guilty part of harmless guilty pleasures. My mother and I have become addicted to "The Big Bang Theory". It's a lovely break from reality, in our humble opinions.


peacegoddess said:


> Just as a last post I must admit to a guilty pleasure, while at other people's homes I watch TV and have become enamoured by the show Longmire. Some strange romantic involvement with the idealism of cowboys/girls and the great outdoors and wildwest. And the best craziness is the character (male) that I like the most is Ferg.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I hope you're eating some chocolate while watching TV. It cancels out the guilty part of harmless guilty pleasures. My mother and I have become addicted to "The Big Bang Theory". It's a lovely break from reality, in our humble opinions.


I'm not much of a TV watcher these days (son and husband commandeered the tube long ago), but I've seen some fascinating programs.

Has anyone ever seen BBC's End Day? In a highly dramatic fashion it shows half a dozen or so ways in which the world might end--absolutely the creepiest show ever! the stuff of nightmares, really.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sounds good to me. maybe we should drop massive amounts of food, water and medical items, too. Blanket the areas that need it so no greedy authorities can hoard it and no one has to fight over a bag of rice because there isn't enough to go around.

When we invaded Iraq I thouight the soldiers and their equipment should be followed by hug lines of tanker sull of water and milk, and trucks full of whatever food the Iraq's actually eat (no MREs!!). I had this great picture of that in my mind. Oh, and part of the military invaders should have been headed for the museums, libraries, hospitals, schools, power plants and any other necessary or fragile parts of any given area. I feel the same way about other places where we have had or still have a large military presence.


peacegoddess said:


> How about we do a massive air lift of women and children out of Syria?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Dame, I wish I could include the tune themselves, but as far as I know it isn't possible to attach an mp3 to a post. Maybe I can find some links elsewhere, like youtube.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It is a bit of a shocker. At least Gates is very involoved in philanthropy. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the others you listed are philanthropists. Something people may or may not know/r4emember is that George Washington financed a great deal of the American Revolution. A good example of putting one's money where one's mouth is.


susanmos2000 said:


> Morning, ladies. Sorry I missed you yesterday--got sucked into an argument on another thread regarding tax rates for the wealthy, then abandoned the site for the day out of disgust.
> 
> Frankly I feel there's far too much talk on the right about how a decent yearly income is incentive for all Americans to "get ahead". No one will deny the justice of fair day's pay for a good day's work--but the sums generated by the wealthy have become entirely divorced from reality. George Washington was arguably the richest man in colonial America (net worth 550 million in modern dollars), but modern well-to-do Americans make him look like a piker.
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Good morning, sunshines!
First, I apologize to everyone I left out in my sign-off last night. I guess those Lumosity brain activities haven't added too many neural pathways.
Once again, Robert Reich makes incredible sense for me. In all my years on earth, I have avoided anything that smacks of economics. It's just so boring and unappealing to me. Today he explains what our economy needs and doesn't need. It sounds so simple when he says it. How can our economy thrive when workers don't have any buying power? And how can they gain buying power if employers don't increase wages? The middle class is the key to improving the economy, not the wealthy "job creators" who are plopping their money in offshore Meccas. He makes so much sense to me. I love him to death!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It is a bit of a shocker. At least Gates is very involoved in philanthropy. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the others you listed are philanthropists. Something people may or may not know/r4emember is that George Washington financed a great deal of the American Revolution. A good example of putting one's money where one's mouth is.


Yes, Gates has given 28B+ to charity--a philanthropist by anyone's definition. I wasn't aware of how much Washington contributed financially to the Revolution--a noble gesture (I guess), but kind of sickening to think of all that money being spent on war and destruction.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Good morning, sunshines!
> First, I apologize to everyone I left out in my sign-off last night. I guess those Lumosity brain activities haven't added too many neural pathways.
> Once again, Robert Reich makes incredible sense for me. In all my years on earth, I have avoided anything that smacks of economics. It's just so boring and unappealing to me. Today he explains what our economy needs and doesn't need. It sounds so simple when he says it. How can our economy thrive when workers don't have any buying power? And how can they gain buying power if employers don't increase wages? The middle class is the key to improving the economy, not the wealthy "job creators" who are plopping their money in offshore Meccas. He makes so much sense to me. I love him to death!


The man knows wherin he speaks. The fact that people need to buy in order to keep the economy strong is one thing we learned from the Great Depression. The government seems to be catching on as well--remember those $500 checks everyone got some ten years back? The instructions accompanying them were explicit: don't squirrel this money away--SPEND it!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good morning, sunshines!
> First, I apologize to everyone I left out in my sign-off last night. I guess those Lumosity brain activities haven't added too many neural pathways.
> Once again, Robert Reich makes incredible sense for me. In all my years on earth, I have avoided anything that smacks of economics. It's just so boring and unappealing to me. Today he explains what our economy needs and doesn't need. It sounds so simple when he says it. How can our economy thrive when workers don't have any buying power? And how can they gain buying power if employers don't increase wages? The middle class is the key to improving the economy, not the wealthy "job creators" who are plopping their money in offshore Meccas. He makes so much sense to me. I love him to death!


Just finished his article. Always right on point.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/07/the_gates_foundations_leverage.html

This is an interesting article on the Gates Foundation.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, Gates has given 28B+ to charity--a philanthropist by anyone's definition. I wasn't aware of how much Washington contributed financially to the Revolution--a noble gesture (I guess), but kind of sickening to think of all that money being spent on war and destruction.


At least Washington wasn't just a cash cow or a merely a warrior. He didn't want to be President, but he was pretty good at it. He was generally considered a voice of reason throughout our early political history.

Still, if the Revolution was a noble endeavour, then Washington made a noble gesture. The Revoltion is so enshrined as a noble endeavour that it isn't easy to question whether it was noble or not. I'm not even sure where to begin researching that. It would probably involve reading a huge amount of material about what both sides did and why.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess we should do a current value of a dollar calculation to be completely accurate. Comparing the average wage as a ratio to the richest in both time periods would be interesting too.

The gist remains. The rich have gotten incredibly wealthy, while the average man has lost buying power. The reason this is important is.....how many cars can you buy? How many appliances? These are the types of purchases that provide manufacturing jobs. The rest of society is where the numbers are. In the last long recession, people lost homes, struggled to feed their families, and more. They drove used cars for decades.

What kind of society do we wish to be? Decide and then we must make our tax system encourage this by discouraging corporations from moving overseas. Tax overseas investment by wealthy individuals.



susanmos2000 said:


> Morning, ladies. Sorry I missed you yesterday--got sucked into an argument on another thread regarding tax rates for the wealthy, then abandoned the site for the day out of disgust.
> 
> Frankly I feel there's far too much talk on the right about how a decent yearly income is incentive for all Americans to "get ahead". No one will deny the justice of fair day's pay for a good day's work--but the sums generated by the wealthy have become entirely divorced from reality. George Washington was arguably the richest man in colonial America (net worth 550 million in modern dollars), but modern well-to-do Americans make him look like a piker.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Penny...knock....Penny...knock...Penny...knock.

We love that show too. IMHO the writing is brilliant. It brings life to a wild assortment of characters and makes the interaction funny.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I hope you're eating some chocolate while watching TV. It cancels out the guilty part of harmless guilty pleasures. My mother and I have become addicted to "The Big Bang Theory". It's a lovely break from reality, in our humble opinions.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have too many things to worry about now. Worry gene runs in the family. Give me Downton Abbey, The Big Bang, Burn Unit.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not much of a TV watcher these days (son and husband commandeered the tube long ago), but I've seen some fascinating programs.
> 
> Has anyone ever seen BBC's End Day? In a highly dramatic fashion it shows half a dozen or so ways in which the world might end--absolutely the creepiest show ever! the stuff of nightmares, really.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> I guess we should do a current value of a dollar calculation to be completely accurate. Comparing the average wage as a ratio to the richest in both time periods would be interesting too.
> 
> The gist remains. The rich have gotten incredibly wealthy, while the average man has lost buying power. The reason this is important is.....how many cars can you buy? How many appliances? These are the types of purchases that provide manufacturing jobs. The rest of society is where the numbers are. In the last long recession, people lost homes, struggled to feed their families, and more. They drove used cars for decades.
> 
> What kind of society do we wish to be? Decide and then we must make our tax system encourage this by discouraging corporations from moving overseas. Tax overseas investment by wealthy individuals.


And we're right back to those in the House that don't do anything. No legislation, and particularly no legislation that raises taxes. The wealthy have the power, and they've bought the House and convinced the public into voting for things that aren't in their best interests. I go so far as to say it's unpatriotic for corporations and wealthy individuals to hide their money offshore rather than using it to renew our economy. I know it sounds naive, but . . . .


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You know the history. The lyrics are poetry. And the music would be a treat, especially when we aren't familiar with the tunes. So nice of you. Thanks.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Dame, I wish I could include the tune themselves, but as far as I know it isn't possible to attach an mp3 to a post. Maybe I can find some links elsewhere, like youtube.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

And now it's football time!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Warren Buffet is giving most of his wealth to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

In the 'old day' many were philanthropists. Andrew Carnegie, lots of Rockefeller money, Mellons and on and on. Why isn't it happening as much now? Bootstrap philosophy abounds.



MaidInBedlam said:


> It is a bit of a shocker. At least Gates is very involoved in philanthropy. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the others you listed are philanthropists. Something people may or may not know/r4emember is that George Washington financed a great deal of the American Revolution. A good example of putting one's money where one's mouth is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Good morning, sunshines!
> First, I apologize to everyone I left out in my sign-off last night. I guess those Lumosity brain activities haven't added too many neural pathways.
> Once again, Robert Reich makes incredible sense for me. In all my years on earth, I have avoided anything that smacks of economics. It's just so boring and unappealing to me. Today he explains what our economy needs and doesn't need. It sounds so simple when he says it. How can our economy thrive when workers don't have any buying power? And how can they gain buying power if employers don't increase wages? The middle class is the key to improving the economy, not the wealthy "job creators" who are plopping their money in offshore Meccas. He makes so much sense to me. I love him to death!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I didn't know I had such illustrious backup. Thanks Robert Reich. And thanks Al.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And we're right back to those in the House that don't do anything. No legislation, and particularly no legislation that raises taxes. The wealthy have the power, and they've bought the House and convinced the public into voting for things that aren't in their best interests. I go so far as to say it's unpatriotic for corporations and wealthy individuals to hide their money offshore rather than using it to renew our economy. I know it sounds naive, but . . . .


So true, Al. Folks moan about those receiving government being beholden to the government...well, what about the super rich? They're dependent on legislation that will allow them to build and protect their fortunes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But without it, there would be no United States of America. I hate war too, but you have to be careful what you choose to go to war for. Freedom & liberty. To stop the Holocaust.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, Gates has given 28B+ to charity--a philanthropist by anyone's definition. I wasn't aware of how much Washington contributed financially to the Revolution--a noble gesture (I guess), but kind of sickening to think of all that money being spent on war and destruction.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> But without it, there would be no United States of America. I hate war too, but you have to be careful what you choose to go to war for. Freedom & liberty. To stop the Holocaust.


damemary
lately it seems that we only go into conflict if lots of money is in it for some (Oil and Weapons manufacturing) and no longer for humanitarian reasons. About 1400 poisoned, over 300 hundred of those children. Do we care? If not, why not?


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Just as a last post I must admit to a guilty pleasure, while at other people's homes I watch TV and have become enamoured by the show Longmire. Some strange romantic involvement with the idealism of cowboys/girls and the great outdoors and wildwest. And the best craziness is the character (male) that I like the most is Ferg.


I watch it too and love it. So sad that it is over for the season. It is a great show.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> At least Washington wasn't just a cash cow or a merely a warrior. He didn't want to be President, but he was pretty good at it. He was generally considered a voice of reason throughout our early political history.
> 
> Still, if the Revolution was a noble endeavour, then Washington made a noble gesture. The Revoltion is so enshrined as a noble endeavour that it isn't easy to question whether it was noble or not. I'm not even sure where to begin researching that. It would probably involve reading a huge amount of material about what both sides did and why.


One thing we can really credit Washington for is steering the nation away from the frills and foppery traditionally associated with European monarchy. When he was sworn in people were expecting peacock feathers and ermine robes--apparently he was against all that insisted on a solemn but low-key ceremony.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Does anyone watch Who Do You Think You Are? It is on Tues nights at 8:00 on TLC. Jim Parsons form Big Bang Theory will be on there this week. They spend the hour looking into a celebrity's family history. It is usually pretty interesting.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Worry genes run on both sides of my family. It is a miracle that I don't bite my fingernails anymore. I will take any healthy escapism possible, however. Cuts down on how much chocolate I allow myself, but I can feel ever so noble instead. A friend of mine used to call whatever she was kinitting a "nervous habit".


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> lately it seems that we only go into conflict if lots of money is in it for some (Oil and Weapons manufacturing) and no longer for humanitarian reasons. About 1400 poisoned, over 300 hundred of those children. Do we care? If not, why not?


We SEEM to care, but I'm not so sure. The news I've watched didn't show as much of the carnage as they could have, and what they did show was still too much for me. Makes it so, so easy to support military action to see someone in the throes of the effects of the gas and rows of cloth-wrapped bodies... Are our heart strings being played to get us to support whatever the President decides to do? It wouldn't be the first time.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> One thing we can really credit Washington for is steering the nation away from the frills and foppery traditionally associated with European monarchy. When he was sworn in people were expecting peacock feathers and ermine robes--apparently he was against all that insisted on a solemn but low-key ceremony.


Interestingly enough, Washington was a bit of a clothes horse. He designed his uniforms and was inclined to go for the fanciest things he could get. Still, he didn't step over the line to wearing monarchical garb.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This is a link to "A Maid In Bedlam" that inspired my change of user name.
.




Same singers 25 years earlier singing "Brightest and Best", a hymn I like




Here'e a link to "Union Maid" This one has kind of a long spoken introduction by Arlo Guthrie, but that's OK. His Dad, Woody, wrote it. 





This is from the soundtrack of the movie "Cold Mountain" and is one of my favorite hymns. My friends say that I sing the gtimmest songs I know when I'm at my happiest. The style of singing is called "fasola", shape-note" and "Sacred Harp Singing" The singers first run through the song using the syllables of the notes, and then sing the words. This style of singing is not a performance. It is a group act of worship and fellowship.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Morning, ladies. Sorry I missed you yesterday--got sucked into an argument on another thread regarding tax rates for the wealthy, then abandoned the site for the day out of disgust.
> 
> Frankly I feel there's far too much talk on the right about how a decent yearly income is incentive for all Americans to "get ahead". No one will deny the justice of fair day's pay for a good day's work--but the sums generated by the wealthy have become entirely divorced from reality. George Washington was arguably the richest man in colonial America (net worth 550 million in modern dollars), but modern well-to-do Americans make him look like a piker.
> 
> ...


The numbers are shocking Susan but I know that Warren Buffett's foundation will give 85% of his wealth to charity and Bill and Melinda Gates are giving all their money to charity through their foundation. I do not know about any of the others. I read an article last year claiming that the poorest Anglican parish in London gave the highest per capita to charity than any other Anglican church in the city managing to pay for the digging of two wells in Africa so two villages would have their own source of drinking water and not have to continue to walk several miles back and forth daily to get clean water. It's amazing what people can do for each other when they get their priorities in order. I believe in karma that what you give you get back and if we all did that the world would be in balance and harmony and no one would be left wanting for anything.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It is a bit of a shocker. At least Gates is very involoved in philanthropy. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the others you listed are philanthropists. Something people may or may not know/r4emember is that George Washington financed a great deal of the American Revolution. A good example of putting one's money where one's mouth is.


Yeah, George Washington! Too bad Bush's family and the oil cartel didn't finance their wars. Now they start them to make money as Chaney made millions and the cartel used the military to protect their oil wells. Worked out real well for them, not so good for all the soldiers and civilians who died.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Penny...knock....Penny...knock...Penny...knock.
> 
> We love that show too. IMHO the writing is brilliant. It brings life to a wild assortment of characters and makes the interaction funny.


Sheldon and the Big Bang gang always leave me smiling. Sometimes we all need a good laugh to lighten up this very serious world be live in.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Penny...knock....Penny...knock...Penny...knock.
> 
> We love that show too. IMHO the writing is brilliant. It brings life to a wild assortment of characters and makes the interaction funny.


I just got the Penny knock thing damemary. One of my favorite Sheldon oddities. BBC is still one of my favorites. I'll have to check that show featuring Jim Parsons. Maybe he really is from another planet? I love aliens.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And we're right back to those in the House that don't do anything. No legislation, and particularly no legislation that raises taxes. The wealthy have the power, and they've bought the House and convinced the public into voting for things that aren't in their best interests. I go so far as to say it's unpatriotic for corporations and wealthy individuals to hide their money offshore rather than using it to renew our economy. I know it sounds naive, but . . . .


Then I am naive too, Al. I don't see what is so great about capitalism either. It doesn't seem to be bringing out the best in people, just the beast.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The numbers are shocking Susan but I know that Warren Buffett's foundation will give 85% of his wealth to charity and Bill and Melinda Gates are giving all their money to charity through their foundation. I do not know about any of the others. I read an article last year claiming that the poorest Anglican parish in London gave the highest per capita to charity than any other Anglican church in the city managing to pay for the digging of two wells in Africa so two villages would have their own source of drinking water and not have to continue to walk several miles back and forth daily to get clean water. It's amazing what people can do for each other when they get their priorities in order. I believe in karma that what you give you get back and if we all did that the world would be in balance and harmony and no one would be left wanting for anything.


An excellent point, Cheeky--in the right hands money can be put to very good use. My concern is more about what sort of system we live in in which such eye-popping sums can be generated by any one individual. Money is often called the great equalizer--if this is so we as a nation are in serious trouble. There can't be equality on any level with so much going into so few hands.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Warren Buffet is giving most of his wealth to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.
> 
> In the 'old day' many were philanthropists. Andrew Carnegie, lots of Rockefeller money, Mellons and on and on. Why isn't it happening as much now? Bootstrap philosophy abounds.


I wouldn't even call it "bootstrap philosophy" Who is giving people a hand up anymore? It's I've got mine and to h--- with you! Some of the biggest screamers are those with inherited money who never worked a day in their lives. MN has several philanthropic families who have been great for the state and still carry on this tradition of giving back to their communities.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> An excellent point, Cheeky--in the right hands money can be put to very good use. My concern is more about what sort of system we live in in which such eye-popping sums can be generated by any one individual. Money is often called the great equalizer--if this is so we as a nation are in serious trouble. There can't be equality on any level with so much going into so few hands.


I totally agree. I know even a poor man can be greedy but you would have to be a fool to see that over the last several years everything has been geared to "trickle up" to the wealthy. It was a conscious decision made by a lot of people in conjunction with a lot of politicians to change the rules to favor the uber wealthy. I am very comfortable and I do have to ask myself how much money does one person need? It seems the amassing of wealth is the be all and end all of so many and a lot of people in the middle class have ignorantly signed on to this philosophy. Sometimes I think that somehow magically the "wealth" is going to rub off on them. They play into people's greed and this obsessive fear that someone , God forbid, is going to get something they are not. I am also sick and tired of all the nonsense that Obama is "buying" the vote with free cell phones and other such stupid enticements. Really? Then they say they love poor people and minorities while speaking out the other side of their face and pretty much saying that these people are so stupid they can enticed by a phone. Pleaseeeee! Not having a job or a roof over your head is not fun for anybody and people who think that that "is living the high life are idiots at best and bigots at worst. The icing on the cake is the new "Prosperity Christianity". There are huge protestant churches popping up all over the country preaching this new religion. God wants us to be rich. Really? The only ones getting rich are the people peddling this BS. Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and wonder how people can be so gullible.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I totally agree. I know even a poor man can be greedy but you would have to be a fool to see that over the last several years everything has been geared to "trickle up" to the wealthy. It was a conscious decision made by a lot of people in conjunction with a lot of politicians to change the rules to favor the uber wealthy. I am very comfortable and I do have to ask myself how much money does one person need? It seems the amassing of wealth is the be all and end all of so many and a lot of people in the middle class have ignorantly signed on to this philosophy. Sometimes I think that somehow magically the "wealth" is going to rub off on them. They play into people's greed and this obsessive fear that someone , God forbid, is going to get something they are not. I am also sick and tired of all the nonsense that Obama is "buying" the vote with free cell phones and other such stupid enticements. Really? Then they say they love poor people and minorities while speaking out the other side of their face and pretty much saying that these people are so stupid they can enticed by a phone. Pleaseeeee! Not having a job or a roof over your head is not fun for anybody and people who think that that "is living the high life are idiots at best and bigots at worst. The icing on the cake is the new "Prosperity Christianity". There are huge protestant churches popping up all over the country preaching this new religion. God wants us to be rich. Really? The only ones getting rich are the people peddling this BS. Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and wonder how people can be so gullible.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If we backed those other wars and we ignore this one, I will be so ashamed. Also, what will any President's word ever mean to the world in the future.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> lately it seems that we only go into conflict if lots of money is in it for some (Oil and Weapons manufacturing) and no longer for humanitarian reasons. About 1400 poisoned, over 300 hundred of those children. Do we care? If not, why not?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When you see Jim Parsons interviewed, he does not have the voice or mannerisms of the character. He is a very talented man.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I just got the Penny knock thing damemary. One of my favorite Sheldon oddities. BBC is still one of my favorites. I'll have to check that show featuring Jim Parsons. Maybe he really is from another planet? I love aliens.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I totally agree. I know even a poor man can be greedy but you would have to be a fool to see that over the last several years everything has been geared to "trickle up" to the wealthy. It was a conscious decision made by a lot of people in conjunction with a lot of politicians to change the rules to favor the uber wealthy. I am very comfortable and I do have to ask myself how much money does one person need? It seems the amassing of wealth is the be all and end all of so many and a lot of people in the middle class have ignorantly signed on to this philosophy. Sometimes I think that somehow magically the "wealth" is going to rub off on them. They play into people's greed and this obsessive fear that someone , God forbid, is going to get something they are not. I am also sick and tired of all the nonsense that Obama is "buying" the vote with free cell phones and other such stupid enticements. Really? Then they say they love poor people and minorities while speaking out the other side of their face and pretty much saying that these people are so stupid they can enticed by a phone. Pleaseeeee! Not having a job or a roof over your head is not fun for anybody and people who think that that "is living the high life are idiots at best and bigots at worst. The icing on the cake is the new "Prosperity Christianity". There are huge protestant churches popping up all over the country preaching this new religion. God wants us to be rich. Really? The only ones getting rich are the people peddling this BS. Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and wonder how people can be so gullible.


Cheeky, don't you mean how can people be so stupid?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Cheeky, don't you mean how can people be so stupid?


Nothing new there, unfortunately. John Steinbeck wrote that, during the Great Depression, the staunchest upholder of the system was usually a shop clerk with a drawerful of debts.


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## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It is a bit of a shocker. At least Gates is very involoved in philanthropy. Unfortunately, I don't know to what extent the others you listed are philanthropists. Something people may or may not know/r4emember is that George Washington financed a great deal of the American Revolution. A good example of putting one's money where one's mouth is.


Probably some of you know more about this than I do, but it's my understanding that Buffet said, in effect, I know a whole lot about making money but I don't know a thing about running a foundation. Bill Gates does, so I'll give a boatload of money to him. :wink:


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## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

Queenmum said:


> Probably some of you know more about this than I do, but it's my understanding that Buffet said, in effect, I know a whole lot about making money but I don't know a thing about running a foundation. Bill Gates does, so I'll give a boatload of money to him. :wink:


Sorry, hadn't seen Dame Mary's post before I wrote,


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I went to the Farmers market today and got some wonderful melons and heirloom tomatoes. Also basil and strawberries. While there, i bought an empanada. It was so tasty! While eating it I reflected that empanadas are very similar to samosas, which I also love. So I was wondering how many ethnic foods have stuffed savory pastry? Indian, Peruvian, Eastern European (perogies, what country claims them?) Would Sheppards pie qualify? And is it English or Irish?

Help me out ladies.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I totally agree. I know even a poor man can be greedy but you would have to be a fool to see that over the last several years everything has been geared to "trickle up" to the wealthy. It was a conscious decision made by a lot of people in conjunction with a lot of politicians to change the rules to favor the uber wealthy. I am very comfortable and I do have to ask myself how much money does one person need? It seems the amassing of wealth is the be all and end all of so many and a lot of people in the middle class have ignorantly signed on to this philosophy. Sometimes I think that somehow magically the "wealth" is going to rub off on them. They play into people's greed and this obsessive fear that someone , God forbid, is going to get something they are not. I am also sick and tired of all the nonsense that Obama is "buying" the vote with free cell phones and other such stupid enticements. Really? Then they say they love poor people and minorities while speaking out the other side of their face and pretty much saying that these people are so stupid they can enticed by a phone. Pleaseeeee! Not having a job or a roof over your head is not fun for anybody and people who think that that "is living the high life are idiots at best and bigots at worst. The icing on the cake is the new "Prosperity Christianity". There are huge protestant churches popping up all over the country preaching this new religion. God wants us to be rich. Really? The only ones getting rich are the people peddling this BS. Sometimes all I can do is shake my head and wonder how people can be so gullible.


Cheeky Blighter
Right you are. Prosperity Christianity, very lucrative for those who preach it. Ever notice the competition in size of Churches? Now you can find "Walmart Churches" competing for the Souls of smaller ones. Give me that little Chapel where the Preacher, to get my attention, still rings the Bell hanging by a rope. His Sermons are simple, he makes no promises and points no fingers. He lives a simple life and asks us to care for each other nothing else.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I went to the Farmers market today and got some wonderful melons and heirloom tomatoes. Also basil and strawberries. While there, i bought an empanada. It was so tasty! While eating it I reflected that empanadas are very similar to samosas, which I also love. So I was wondering how many ethnic foods have stuffed savory pastry? Indian, Peruvian, Eastern European (perogies, what country claims them?) Would Sheppards pie qualify? And is it English or Irish?
> 
> Help me out ladies.


What about pasties? They're meat stuffed pouches eaten quite often in Michigan (or so I've heard) and apparently hail from Cornwall. I have a couple of recipes but they require beef suet, which I've always been too lazy to try to find.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

has anyone here heard of Global Fund for Women? Check it out on the web.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Just in from running my pup with a friend's 2 dogs...we let them play while catching the first part of tonight's 60 Minutes show... 
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50154583n
Talk about depressing. All about how robotics really are taking over jobs; and how robotic jobs are coming back to the US from low labor cost countries because robots are even cheaper then 3rd world workers. Obviously, there are fewer jobs available for human workers at many levels. OK, what now? Few jobs, fewer in the future, and we keep churning out little people who will need jobs to survive.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Just in from running my pup with a friend's 2 dogs...we let them play while catching the first part of tonight's 60 Minutes show...
> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50154583n
> Talk about depressing. All about how robotics really are taking over jobs; and how robotic jobs are coming back to the US from low labor cost countries because robots are even cheaper then 3rd world workers. Obviously, there are fewer jobs available for human workers at many levels. OK, what now? Few jobs, fewer in the future, and we keep churning out little people who will need jobs to survive.


Sad, but true. Did they have any suggestions for jobs for humans?


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Sad, but true. Did they have any suggestions for jobs for humans?


No, it was pretty much 'read it and weep' ...


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I went to the Farmers market today and got some wonderful melons and heirloom tomatoes. Also basil and strawberries. While there, i bought an empanada. It was so tasty! While eating it I reflected that empanadas are very similar to samosas, which I also love. So I was wondering how many ethnic foods have stuffed savory pastry? Indian, Peruvian, Eastern European (perogies, what country claims them?) Would Sheppards pie qualify? And is it English or Irish?
> 
> Help me out ladies.


There was a restaurant here that served bierachs, or something like it (not sure of the spelling). It was wonderful, but the restaurant didn't make it through the recession. Filled with ground beef and I believe sauerkraut .

 :!:


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> There was a restaurant here that served bierachs, or something like it (not sure of the spelling). It was wonderful, but the restaurant didn't make it through the recession. Filled with ground beef and I believe sauerkraut .
> 
> :!:


I just looked it up on google, spelled bierocks.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Please remember that people have to make and service the robots, program them, all of that. 
This is why we need to find an adequate response to the donkeys who keep repeating that fast food work is not meant to support a family. Whatever it was meant to do it is now supporting families. 
I have been chastened. I cannot say what that phrase brings to mind. GGGggggrrrrr!!



midwegian said:


> Just in from running my pup with a friend's 2 dogs...we let them play while catching the first part of tonight's 60 Minutes show...
> http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50154583n
> Talk about depressing. All about how robotics really are taking over jobs; and how robotic jobs are coming back to the US from low labor cost countries because robots are even cheaper then 3rd world workers. Obviously, there are fewer jobs available for human workers at many levels. OK, what now? Few jobs, fewer in the future, and we keep churning out little people who will need jobs to survive.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> I just looked it up on google, spelled bierocks.


It is so fasinating to me the endless varities of staple type foods that all/most cultures have. In addition to a baked or fried savory pastry, most cultures have a flat bread also.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It is so fasinating to me the endless varities of staple type foods that all/most cultures have. In addition to a baked or fried savory pastry, most cultures have a flat bread also.


It really is fascinating.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> It really is fascinating.


What are your three favorite ethnic foods? Indian, Middle Eastern, and Italian for me.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Please remember that people have to make and service the robots, program them, all of that.
> This is why we need to find an adequate response to the donkeys who keep repeating that fast food work is not meant to support a family. Whatever it was meant to do it is now supporting families.
> I have been chastened. I cannot say what that phrase brings to mind. GGGggggrrrrr!!


More and more people trying to get on a smaller and smaller ice floe... and average monthly gain of 184,000 job seekers... I have to think about something else or I'll get the blues!

Do not engage...


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What are your three favorite ethnic foods? Indian, Middle Eastern, and Italian for me.


Love Thai, Mexican, Italian, Chinese not so much here. It is much better back east. I work with an Indian physician and she occasionally brings tasty things. There are some pretty good Indian restaurants because there is quite a large Indian community here.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> Love Thai, Mexican, Italian, Chinese not so much here. It is much better back east. I work with an Indian physician and she occasionally brings tasty things. There are some pretty good Indian restaurants because there is quite a large Indian community here.


I choose to think about food! Besides good local cooking, I'll walk way out of my way for Chinese, Mexican and Greek fare.

Do not engage...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

midwegian said:


> I choose to think about food! Besides good local cooking, I'll walk way out of my way for Chinese, Mexican and Greek fare.
> 
> Do not engage...


I have tried so many ethnic foods that I don't really have a favorite. I haven't liked everything I ever tasted but I have found tasty food everywhere. Variety is the spice of life and I love new experiences and new treats for my tummy will gladly be tested.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Love love love the MoveOn.Org anti Obama's War commercial.

Don't blame the Republicans the Lefties are derailing Obama's War


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Love love love the MoveOn.Org anti Obama's War commercial.
> 
> Don't blame the Republicans the Lefties are derailing Obama's War


The anti military strikers are across the political spectrum.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The anti military strikers are across the political spectrum.


What are anti military "STRIKERS"? Are they Socialists aka the workers?

There are more leftist anti Obama's War than those on the Right. Maybe if Obama had answered questions about Benghazi Americans would trust him. He lied about Benghazi and the YouTube video. He ignored the Republicans for 5 years; then all of a sudden Obama invites some Republicans for a spaghetti dinner because he needs them. If he had not been so arrogant and chose to snub Republicans for years, they might believe him

He needs to answer the questions regarding Benghazi. If he cared, he would defund and delay Obamacare and the IRS and put that money into the military's budget. Because if our military were not so destroyed by Obama's military cuts and his sequestration the world would be more apt to fear a military strike from us. That deterrent would save lives. If Ronald Reagan was in office, with his military strength we would not be in this situation


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheer up, whip makers and blacksmiths felt the same way when the automobile industry took off. 
The difficult part is that manufacturing jobs have been for those who chose not to indulge in further education immediately after high school, good jobs at good wages are going to be hard to come by for them for a while longer.



midwegian said:


> More and more people trying to get on a smaller and smaller ice floe... and average monthly gain of 184,000 job seekers... I have to think about something else or I'll get the blues!
> 
> Do not engage...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Cheer up, whip makers and blacksmiths felt the same way when the automobile industry took off.
> The difficult part is that manufacturing jobs have been for those who chose not to indulge in further education immediately after high school, good jobs at good wages are going to be hard to come by for them for a while longer.


jelun2
Automobiles replaced public transportation and now we need to get back to it. Sombebody has to design and build the Robots and service their breakdowns. Smart Societies always adjust to changes.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Automobiles replaced public transportation and now we need to get back to it. Somebody has to design and build the Robots and service their breakdowns. Smart Societies always adjust to changes.


I wonder if the shift in types of jobs cited on the 60 Minutes piece will be as simple as retraining potential workers, or will there be a large number of people who are unable to make the transition at all.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

There are always some folks who miss being exposed to innovation, don't you think? Either through socioeconomic issues and less opporunity, lack of curiosity, or lack of ability some people will miss seeing the needs of the future. 
There are so many facets of the alterations we are making, it seems that there should still be a place for everyone. 
One of the opportunities that will continue to grow will be in care for those people who are born very prematurely. They are going to need training and updating on the machines that assist them in daily living as well as assistance in the tasks to maintain a home. 
Isn't there a saying about necessity being the mother of invention?



MaidInBedlam said:


> I wonder if the shift in types of jobs cited on the 60 Minutes piece will be as simple as retraining potential workers, or will there be a large number of people who are unable to make the transition at all.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jelun2, I agree with what you postd about jobs shifting due to robotics as discussed last night on 60 Minutes. I only thought that the interviewees were pessimistic about the creation of new jobs if their projected use of robotics becomes a reality. 

Fortuneately, a lot of people are inventive, especially when that's the only answer to a problem. It should be interesting to see how new technologies affect our lives. I wish I were a little younger and would have the chance to see more of how our society in general will change.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I wonder if the shift in types of jobs cited on the 60 Minutes piece will be as simple as retraining potential workers, or will there be a large number of people who are unable to make the transition at all.


MaidInBedlam
I did not see 60 Minutes. I know that plenty of trainable people will be at hand and the others will do other jobs as always.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I agree that we need to develop public transportation. I have never lived in an area where it was truly accessible. Spotty bus service and train service to Boston is as close as we come around here to public transportation. 
Just an impromptu observation, the bus line that serves my community runs way out of town to the Walmart and yet doesn't even head up the street past the busiest regional supermarket that has great pricing. Buses also run out the mall and to Target and Kohl's, a person can get the bus to stop at the more expensive mulitnational supermarkets. It just seems odd to me.
Walmart is now building a super maxi super super store next to that regional market. I cannot help but wonder if the bus lines will now head out that way. 
Isn't city transportation much better than this?



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Automobiles replaced public transportation and now we need to get back to it. Sombebody has to design and build the Robots and service their breakdowns. Smart Societies always adjust to changes.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I missed 60 Minutes. As I miss most of what is on TV, my son monopolizes it and, for some reason, my family ignores that I have a perfectly serviceable television in my room if only someone would drill a hole and give me access to the FIOS. LOL. It is my SIL's daughter's room that the line needs to come through and I don't want to breach her privacy or I would do it myself.

We will always have closeminded, depressed and depressing personalities with us (as we see evidenced every day here on these threads) those people just cannot manage to evolve. It is sad, but, like the great mammoths they will become extinct and those who are adaptable will pass on our good genes and survive.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Jelun2, I agree with what you postd about jobs shifting due to robotics as discussed last night on 60 Minutes. I only thought that the interviewees were pessimistic about the creation of new jobs if their projected use of robotics becomes a reality.
> 
> Fortuneately, a lot of people are inventive, especially when that's the only answer to a problem. It should be interesting to see how new technologies affect our lives. I wish I were a little younger and would have the chance to see more of how our society in general will change.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I did not see 60 Minutes. I know that plenty of trainable people will be at hand and the others will do other jobs as always.


I think people can adjust to most innovations when they really want to. Proof of that is the dawning of the computer age--how many seniors on this site felt that they could never master the intricacies of the Internet?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I missed 60 Minutes. As I miss most of what is on TV, my son monopolizes it and, for some reason, my family ignores that I have a perfectly serviceable television in my room if only someone would drill a hole and give me access to the FIOS.


I'm in the same boat with an additional hole-- only one TV and two family members who are absolutely addicted to the thing.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, indeed. 
I am an old AOLer, it always amazed me that so many people my age, this was probably a dozen and more years ago) couldn't cut and paste or do the simplest of functions like clearing their cache without step by step reminders every time. 
Lack of curiosity?



susanmos2000 said:


> I think people can adjust to most innovations when they really want to. Proof of that is the dawning of the computer age--how many seniors on this site felt that they could never master the intricacies of the Internet?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As a person who has almost always used public transportation to get around, I'd love to see more of it. I had a job that required having a car, learned to drive, got a license, and used my vehicle for a year. After that, i was back to public transportation,

I live near San Francisco and our light rail system goes out to many suburbs that are fairly far away from the cities with the greatest number of commuters, but the system of connecting buses gets worse and worse the farther away you get from the those cities. So some people are damed if they do and damned if they don't. Parking is difficult at some of the outlying train stations, too, so those who would be happy to drive only from home to their closest train station are limited there as well.

Bus systems that serve the areas with the most commuters have made successive cut backs, in the last few years, on service due to costs. A lot of commuters aren't in the psoition to or happy to have to wait for the bus that gets them home when it only comes once an hour.

More and more, the bus systems are considered the province of the poor. That's pretty accurate at certain times of day but prejudice against buses seems counter productive. Public transportation is cheaper than using a personal vehicle. It creates less pollution. You can consider me to be in a constant state of prayer for more public transportation. I loathed driving and can't imagine ever doing it again.


jelun2 said:


> I agree that we need to develop public transportation. I have never lived in an area where it was truly accessible. Spotty bus service and train service to Boston is as close as we come around here to public transportation.
> Just an impromptu observation, the bus line that serves my community runs way out of town to the Walmart and yet doesn't even head up the street past the busiest regional supermarket that has great pricing. Buses also run out the mall and to Target and Kohl's, a person can get the bus to stop at the more expensive mulitnational supermarkets. It just seems odd to me.
> Walmart is now building a super maxi super super store next to that regional market. I cannot help but wonder if the bus lines will now head out that way.
> Isn't city transportation much better than this?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here is another example of those who will have to be brought along kicking and screaming into the real world. <smh>

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/government-not-god-pac-obama-shouldve-been-removed-office-his-socialist-islamist-and-pro-hom

Just the beginning...
William Murrays Government Is Not God PAC is predictably upset that the Treasury Department and the IRS, in accordance with the Supreme Courts decision that struck down the federal component of DOMA, will recognize legally married same-sex couples. The conservative group said the decision was just more proof that Obama is a tyrant, lamenting that in more rational times, he would already have been impeached and removed from office for pursuing his socialist, Islamist, and pro-homosexual agendas. It should come as no surprise that Obama has just exceeded his authority to redefine marriage under federal law. The U.S. Department of Treasury and the IRS, as well as the Department of Health and Human Services are going to recognize homosexual marriages even in states that define marriage as a one-man, one-woman union. According to Ryan Anderson, with The Heritage Foundation: The agencies announced that they will recognize same-sex couples as married provided that they were married in states that have redefined marriage, even if they now reside in states that retain the historical definition of marriage. As Treasury and IRS put it, The ruling applies regardless of whether the couple lives in a jurisdiction that recognizes same-sex marriage or a jurisdiction that does not recognize same-sex marriage.

If you don't like same sex marriage, don't marry someone of the same sex.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Luckily I am more addicted to the computer than TV so it works out for the most part. I would like to listen to it, though.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm in the same boat with an additional hole-- only one TV and two family members who are absolutely addicted to the thing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Here is another example of those who will have to be brought along kicking and screaming into the real world. <smh>
> 
> http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/government-not-god-pac-obama-shouldve-been-removed-office-his-socialist-islamist-and-pro-hom
> 
> ...


And there you are.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I missed 60 Minutes. As I miss most of what is on TV, my son monopolizes it and, for some reason, my family ignores that I have a perfectly serviceable television in my room if only someone would drill a hole and give me access to the FIOS. LOL. It is my SIL's daughter's room that the line needs to come through and I don't want to breach her privacy or I would do it myself.
> 
> We will always have closeminded, depressed and depressing personalities with us (as we see evidenced every day here on these threads) those people just cannot manage to evolve. It is sad, but, like the great mammoths they will become extinct and those who are adaptable will pass on our good genes and survive.


Simple one-time fix; pay FIOS personnel to give your TV access otherwise your extinction will become complete.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

For those who are worried about another war? It seems to be in the great American tradition.

http://www.upworthy.com/daymn-how-many-years-has-america-been-at-war-since-1776


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Here's the celebrated queen of the RWNs congratulating the Egyptian military for killing their citizens. No wonder the right wingers are quiet about intervention in Syria.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/heres-michele-bachmann-thanking-the-egyptian-military-for-the-coup-and-crackdowns/


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Here's the celebrated queen of the RWNs congratulating the Egyptian military for killing their citizens. No wonder the right wingers are quiet about intervention in Syria.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/heres-michele-bachmann-thanking-the-egyptian-military-for-the-coup-and-crackdowns/


I wish I knew where to find it online but there was an excellent article in the Sunday paper about the pros and cons of military action in Syria. Basically, it's a damned if we do and damned if we don't scenario. There isn't much middle ground with this situation.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I honestly don't know where to fall on this one. Not that my opinion means much anyway. To be perfectly honest, it may feel better than with Afghanistan and especially Iraq when it didn't feel right to stay past a few weeks or to invade at all and have the powers that be do what they wanted. At least this way I don't have a clue about what might turn out right.



GWPlver said:


> I wish I knew where to find it online but there was an excellent article in the Sunday paper about the pros and cons of military action in Syria. Basically, it's a damned if we do and damned if we don't scenario. There isn't much middle ground with this situation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The anti military strikers are across the political spectrum.


I saw the "Pink Ladies" at the hearings last night. I am so glad they got good seats and visibility. They showed pictures of protesters outside too and at other sites in the country. Assad is a slippery one. It will be interesting to see how congress will vote. The only poll I have responded to was Bernie Sander's last night and it was 2/3rds to not intervene, 1/3 to go in. Polls can change and be unreliable and if more information comes out who knows which way things will go. I some quarters it doesn't matter what Obama does. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but it's been that way since he took office. It makes me laugh when people see him as a liberal. He is far from it. I think we should give aid to the refugees and to the countries who are taking them in. I feel sorry for the people who are trapped in the country and have no where to go where they can be safe.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I saw the "Pink Ladies" at the hearings last night. I am so glad they got good seats and visibility. They showed pictures of protesters outside too and at other sites in the country. Assad is a slippery one. It will be interesting to see how congress will vote. The only poll I have responded to was Bernie Sander's last night and it was 2/3rds to not intervene, 1/3 to go in. Polls can change and be unreliable and if more information comes out who knows which way things will go. I some quarters it doesn't matter what Obama does. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but it's been that way since he took office. It makes me laugh when people see him as a liberal. He is far from it. I think we should give aid to the refugees and to the countries who are taking them in. I feel sorry for the people who are trapped in the country and have no where to go where they can be safe.


 :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It has been suggested by certain low information persons that there has been no input as to the Benghazi situation other than from rightwing websites. 
It is not really an issue I have taken much interest in since I saw an article or two that people had been identified as involved and were going to be apprehended soon. 
Today, due to that statement I did a very quick search. It would seem that someone didn't really want to find anything out about progress in that incident as it took one phrase to pull up pages of information. That phrase was "arrest made in Benghazi killings", here is the result.

I used TinyURL as the initial response had 132 characters. Here ya go!

http://tinyurl.com/od979ec


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> It has been suggested by certain low information persons that there has been no input as to the Benghazi situation other than from rightwing websites.
> It is not really an issue I have taken much interest in since I saw an article or two that people had been identified as involved and were going to be apprehended soon.
> Today, due to that statement I did a very quick search. It would seem that someone didn't really want to find anything out about progress in that incident as it took one phrase to pull up pages of information.


So it seems your extinction is already complete. Your low-information post is evidence of the fact you know nothing about Benghazi as your url leads to year-old stories on Lib sites that have since been retracted or proven inaccurate.

To date, no one has been held accountable for the crimes (murders of four Americans) on Obama's and Hillary's watch (available in real-time video) even though known who was responsible.

Remember Benghazi!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I agree that we need to develop public transportation. I have never lived in an area where it was truly accessible. Spotty bus service and train service to Boston is as close as we come around here to public transportation.
> Just an impromptu observation, the bus line that serves my community runs way out of town to the Walmart and yet doesn't even head up the street past the busiest regional supermarket that has great pricing. Buses also run out the mall and to Target and Kohl's, a person can get the bus to stop at the more expensive mulitnational supermarkets. It just seems odd to me.
> Walmart is now building a super maxi super super store next to that regional market. I cannot help but wonder if the bus lines will now head out that way.
> Isn't city transportation much better than this?


Other parts of the world are so much further ahead than most parts of the U.S. when it comes to moving people around cheaply and quickly. They have far superior train service and in most cities you have no need for a car at all. In England their are train stations even in very small towns with daily service. Just hop on a train and you are off. Our major cities are OK. I think Seattle had the best public transit I have seen and most of it is free. I can get around easily in Chicago and D.C. also but I am a lot more familiar with them too.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It would seem that the low information members of the new "Know Nothing Party" are as stupid and lazy as they are are ignorant. They are unable to do any sorting or heavy lifting at all.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/6/u-s-files-criminalchargesinbenghaziattackmediareports.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-first-charges-filed-benghazi-attack-004746125.html

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-first-charges-filed-benghazi-attack-004746125.html

While I understand that it can be tedious to seperate the wheat from the chaff. 
That is why certain people who study up on sites such as wizbang are known as low information nutjobs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It has been suggested by certain low information persons that there has been no input as to the Benghazi situation other than from rightwing websites.
> It is not really an issue I have taken much interest in since I saw an article or two that people had been identified as involved and were going to be apprehended soon.
> Today, due to that statement I did a very quick search. It would seem that someone didn't really want to find anything out about progress in that incident as it took one phrase to pull up pages of information. That phrase was "arrest made in Benghazi killings", here is the result.
> 
> ...


Thanks, jelun. I guess when you have nothing new or relevant to say you just keep pulling out the same old red herrings like Benghazi. I say remember Bazinga! It's just as useful and so much more positive. Screaming these same old platitudes isn't going to bring one person back. I wish the right would bring something constructive to the table. Seems like they are still the "do nothing" party and are totally out of steam. I guess we can't expect much from people who have done nothing for so many years. It's who they are and it's so deeply ingrained they are set on autopilot until maybe they find a new leader or something. So sad isn't it?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for the acknowledgement, Cheeky. 
I much prefer to think that I am helping others keep abreast of just a bit of what is going on in the world as others who I know do for me. It is impossible to keep up with all that is happening. 
Time for some of that "too crunchy for me" peanut butter.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, jelun. I guess when you have nothing new or relevant to say you just keep pulling out the same old red herrings like Benghazi. I say remember Bazinga! It's just as useful and so much more positive. Screaming these same old platitudes isn't going to bring one person back. I wish the right would bring something constructive to the table. Seems like they are still the "do nothing" party and are totally out of steam. I guess we can't expect much from people who have done nothing for so many years. It's who they are and it's so deeply ingrained they are set on autopilot until maybe they find a new leader or something. So sad isn't it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> It would seem that the low information members of the new "Know Nothing Party" are as stupid and lazy as they are are ignorant. They are unable to do any sorting or heavy lifting at all.
> 
> http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/6/u-s-files-criminalchargesinbenghaziattackmediareports.html
> 
> ...


Just telling it like it is. Not an original thought out of anyone of them. They make me shake my head and laugh. If I didn't I would cry and they call themselves patriots and say they love our country and yet they sit by and watch as the country falls apart around them all in their self proclaimed jihad to destroy one man who they fear. I guess that is what is meant by cutting off your nose to spite your face. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for the acknowledgement, Cheeky.
> I much prefer to think that I am helping others keep abreast of just a bit of what is going on in the world as others who I know do for me. It is impossible to keep up with all that is happening.
> Time for some of that "too crunchy for me" peanut butter.


Enjoy, jelun! As for me, I prefer the creamy. :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This is pretty interesting as well.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html

If he didn't think it was appropriate to kill children I might pity him the trauma he is experiencing now. 
Ask anyone who has killed another human being what that is like. Hell, is what they will tell you. Sheer hell.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is pretty interesting as well.
> 
> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html
> 
> ...


Isn't it wonderful that these well-balanced people can carry guns?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> This is pretty interesting as well.
> 
> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html
> 
> ...


As it should be. This is a lesson for all those John Wayne wannabees who don't seem to realize that the person you shoot isn't going to be back on his feet by the next scene.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I cannot forget that Mrs. George Zimmerman is an acknowledged liar, though. 
The little Mrs. stayed with that killer and lived by using the donations sent to Mr. Zimmerman all this time. She has no honor.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I cannot forget that Mrs. George Zimmerman is an acknowledged liar, though.
> The little Mrs. stayed with that killer and lived by using the donations sent to Mr. Zimmerman all this time. She has no honor.


I hadn't read that, but somehow I'm not surprised--who else would marry such a man? Besides everything else he's an idiot--the Feds can still decide to prosecute, and I have no doubt he's facing a string of civil suits from Martin's relatives. Keeping his nose clean was his one hope of avoiding further trouble, and apparently he can't manage even that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

She recently went to court to plead guilty, I believe, over that business in the beginning about claiming that they had no funds for bail. 
SYG may prevent the family from suing civilly, what a shame that would be. Not that he has anything for them to be able to set up a foundation or anything,but, the vindication would feel mighty sweet, I think. 
I don't know how those family members have survived this. I just cannot imagine it.



susanmos2000 said:


> I hadn't read that, but somehow I'm not surprised--who else would marry such a man? Besides everything else he's an idiot--the Feds can still decide to prosecute, and I have no doubt he's facing a string of civil suits from Martin's relatives. Keeping his nose clean was his one hope of avoiding further trouble, and apparently he can't manage even that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> She recently went to court to plead guilty, I believe, over that business in the beginning about claiming that they had no funds for bail.
> SYG may prevent the family from suing civilly, what a shame that would be. Not that he has anything for them to be able to set up a foundation or anything,but, the vindication would feel mighty sweet, I think.
> I don't know how those family members have survived this. I just cannot imagine it.


No, neither can I...and we're going to being seeing a lot more of these horrible kinds of cases, I'm afraid. More guns = more murders, plus all the agony that comes afterwards.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, you mentioned the "Pink Ladies" and I have a strange feeling you're talking about Code Pink. i hope you won't be too bothered by what I'm going to say. Here goes:

One day a couple of yeat=rs ago I went out to have sushi for lunch, my big monthly treat. The Marines had recently opened a recruiting office across the street from the restaurant I was headed for. By chance, I had to walk through the Code Pink's group of demonstrators gathered outside that recruiting office. As i approached the group of picketers, the first one to spot me engaged me in conversation as if I was a long-lost friend. It happens that I have a very negative opinion of the Code Pink group. 

I commenced to rip the hide off this woman in no uncertain terms. My points were that as long as the recruiting station was a duly constituted organization who were doing business legally (which they were...) it was wrong to picket them. Sure, I would rather there weren't any military recruiters around but I also think if someone wants to join any branch of the military they'll find a way to do it. Well, we screamed and yelled and went around and around arguing until I got sick of it, pretty quickly because I wanted ny sushi, and I disengaged from the fight and walked on. 

There were two police officers on the other end of the picketing group and I stopped and asked them what, if anything could be done to get rid of these pink idiots. I mentioed right away that my grandfather had been a police officer from 1915-16 in the same department they belonged to, and then he had become a member of that city's fire department in 1917, retiring in 1952.

The police officers I was talking to immediately treated me as one the "family" because of my family history. After a little discussion, one of the offers said, "Ma'm, you're wearing a pink shirt." I have no sense of style and had completely forgotten my shirt was pink. The officers and I had a good laugh and I made tracks for that sushi, wondering how in the world I could have forgotten what I was wearing.

All of which is to say it isn't always easy to tell what someone beliec=ves in just bu looking at them. In the case of Code Pink, my opiion is that they're wierdo fringies and it's best to steer clear of them.

I've probably offended somebody or other wuth what I've said, Sorry about any tactlessness on my own part. the Code Pink group started near where I lived, and at their peak of membership were all too difficult to ignore.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Try this link to view the CBS '60 Minutes' segment on robotics.... 
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50154583n
Did anyone see the news clip about the child who walked up to a state trooper, pulled the trigger of his holstered gun, shooting the trooper in the leg? The trooper was giving a talk at the school, and the gun, they said, had no safety, which sounds fishy to me. Apparently he didn't notice the kiddo closing in on weapon, holstered at eye-level.

Do Not Engage...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Uh huh, which is why I am especially proud that my older daughter is very involved in Moms Demand Action and the battle against domestic violence.



susanmos2000 said:


> No, neither can I...and we're going to being seeing a lot more of these horrible kinds of cases, I'm afraid. More guns = more murders, plus all the agony that comes afterwards.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sometimes it seems that groups such as Code Pink or Act Up go too far for those of us in the mainstream. Just maybe that is what helps us look like the mainstream. It isn't for me, but, it does draw attention to issues. You know what they say about advertising, it doesn't matter whether the memory is positive or negative it matters that one remembers.



MaidInBedlam said:


> One day I went out to have sushi for lunch, my big monthly treat. The Marines had recently opened a recruiting office across the street from the restaurant I was headed for. By chance, I had to walk through the Code Pink's group of demonstrators gathered outside that recruiting office. As i approached the group of picketers, the first one to spot me engaged me in conversation as if I was a long-lost friend. It happens that I have a very negative opinion of the Code Pink group.
> 
> I commenced to rip the hide off this woman in no uncertain terms. My points were that as long as the recruiting station was a duly constituted organization who were doing business legally (which they were...) it was wrong to picket them. Sure, I would rather there weren't any military recruiters around but I also think if someone wants to join any branch of the military they'll find a way to do it. Well, we screamed and yelled and went around and around arguing until I got sick of it, pretty quickly because I wanted ny sushi, and I disengaged from the fight and walked on.
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Sometimes it seems that groups such as Code Pink or Act Up go too far for those of us in the mainstream. Just maybe that is what helps us look like the mainstream. It isn't for me, but, it does draw attention to issues. You know what they say about advertising, it doesn't matter whether the memory is positive or negative it matters that one remembers.


I agree that some protest groups help some people look at issues differently. What's scary is that I'm pretty far to the left. Not only is any publicity considered good, but that sometimes, if someone doesn't get positive attention, they'll worj hard to get negative attention. Dogs invented that.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

If you are wondering where anti-war Hollywood has been as Obama proves he's not Bush, but only by rushing into a Middle East war with no international coalition and United Nations backing, Ed Asner has the explanation: "A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," Asner explained to the Hollywood Reporter.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ed Asner certainly had much to say.

"We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find. Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?" asks Asner. "We've been so God-damned stung in this country by false wars, repeatedly, that, how can you believe in any just war with the history we have had?"

He hit the nail on the head there, in my opinion.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you for that, susanmos2K



susanmos2000 said:


> Ed Asner certainly had much to say.
> 
> "We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find. Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?" asks Asner. "We've been so God-damned stung in this country by false wars, repeatedly, that, how can you believe in any just war with the history we have had?"
> 
> He hit the nail on the head there, in my opinion.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Less than 30 years with no war within. How sad. 
Those darned ol' "others" are lying about being peaceful, tho.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ed Asner certainly had much to say.
> 
> "We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find. Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?" asks Asner. "We've been so God-damned stung in this country by false wars, repeatedly, that, how can you believe in any just war with the history we have had?"
> 
> He hit the nail on the head there, in my opinion.


Bush had Congressional approval and a multinational coalition. Millions have phoned and emailed their representatives (some people do not have the time to take off work or the money to chant in the streets) against the action. It is clear that Americans do not want military action.

So is Asner afraid to speak against Obama because he does not want to be labeled (wrongly) a racist? Is he afraid to stand up for his anti war beliefs? If all the Hollywood lefties are against war, they should be screaming at the top of their lungs about this one. But that would take courage, not having as many air time, and God forbid not get invited to any of the Obama Fund Raisers. Horrors, what would they do with all those Gala gowns and pretty sparklies when Obama blacklists them?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Why not ask Ed Asner rather than asking Susanmos2000? Unless you think that she is he, it is pointless to ask her to respond for him.



lovethelake said:


> Bush had Congressional approval and a multinational coalition. Millions have phoned and emailed their representatives (some people do not have the time to take off work or the money to chant in the streets) against the action. It is clear that Americans do not want military action.
> 
> So is Asner afraid to speak against Obama because he does not want to be labeled (wrongly) a racist? Is he afraid to stand up for his anti war beliefs? If all the Hollywood lefties are against war, they should be screaming at the top of their lungs about this one. But that would take courage, not having as many air time, and God forbid not get invited to any of the Obama Fund Raisers. Horrors, what would they do with all those Gala gowns and pretty sparklies when Obama blacklists them?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Why not ask Ed Asner rather than asking Susanmos2000? Unless you think that she is he, it is pointless to ask her to respond for him.


Heehee, you never know!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Obamas Coalition Half the Size of George W. Bushs
AP


BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
September 9, 2013 5:00 pm

The Obama administrations international coalition for Syrian intervention is only half the size of the Bush administrations 2003 coalition of the willing.

The White House released a list on Monday of 25 countries that signed a treaty calling for military intervention in Syria against the Assad regime for its use of chemical weapons. Most of the countries who signed the joint statement are still debating whether they will send their own troops to Syria.

The Bush administration released a similar statement in March 2003 listing 49 countries that supported the United States efforts to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction and liberate the Iraqi people from one of the worst tyrants and most brutal regimes on earth.

The United Kingdom, one of Americas most prominent allies in Iraq, voted against sending British military forces into Syria, although Prime Minister David Cameron does support the U.S. militarys intervention. Other supporters of Syrian intervention who allied with the United States in Iraq include Australia, Italy, Hungary, Honduras, Latvia, Spain, South Korea, Romania, Lithuania, and Estonia
**********************************************
President Bush had twice as many nations signed on, he also told more than twice as many lies. Funny how those Presidents with the last name of Bush had no problem setting up liars to convince the American people to go to war.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Here's the celebrated queen of the RWNs congratulating the Egyptian military for killing their citizens. No wonder the right wingers are quiet about intervention in Syria.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/heres-michele-bachmann-thanking-the-egyptian-military-for-the-coup-and-crackdowns/


jelun2
How princely of King and Gohmert to let a dumb woman speak. They probably think it does not make them look so bad while Bachmann feels honored.. What a Trio.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ed Asner certainly had much to say.
> 
> "We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find. Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?" asks Asner. "We've been so God-damned stung in this country by false wars, repeatedly, that, how can you believe in any just war with the history we have had?"
> 
> He hit the nail on the head there, in my opinion.


susanmos2000
Bush's XXXX lies will haunt us for a long, long time. Too bad innocent people will have to suffer because of it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am not so sure anyone can shut that whinebag.



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> How princely of King and Gohmert to let a dumb woman speak. They probably think it does not make them look so bad while Bachmann feels honored.. What a Trio.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

The entire article:

Ed Asner: Hollywood Mum on Syria Over Fears of Appearing Racist
Sunday, 08 Sep 2013 09:47 AM
By Sandy Fitzgerald

Liberals in Hollywood are not speaking out against President Barack Obama's call for military strikes against the Syrian government because they fear being called racists, veteran actor Ed Asner says.

"A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," Asner told The Hollywood Reporter.

But the fear of being labeled as racists is not the only reason actors aren't mobilizing to protest potential action in Syria the way they protested the Iraq War, which began under Republican George W. Bush's presidency, said Asner and fellow liberal activist Mike Farrell, of "M*A*S*H" fame.

And even though Hollywood isn't organizing for protests against strikes in Syria, that doesn't mean there aren't plenty of actors against a military strike, said the actors, who both admit they're disappointed in the president they helped elect.

Urgent: Should U.S. Strike Syria? Vote Here

Back in 2003, just ahead of the U.S. attack on Iraq, Hollywood's anti-war movement included online petitions signed by Asner, and letters to Bush from stars like Matt Damon, Tim Robbins, Barbra Streisand and Alec Baldwin. Farrell himself fronted multiple press conferences in which celebrities denounced the war championed by Bush, who was highly unpopular in Hollywood.

This time around, conservatives are wondering where all the stars and their impassioned speeches are, reports Breitbart.

But Farrell told The Hollywood Reporter that the all-out war in Iraq was much more serious than potential missile strikes under Obama's direction.

Asner, now 83 and Farrell, 74, say Obama should be advocating legal action against Syrian President Bashar Assad, not military strikes.

"What he is talking about in Syria is a potential war crime," Farrell said. "It will be illegal, and if citizens are killed it certainly could be considered a war crime."

And even if there is irrefutable evidence that Assad used chemical weapons against his own citizens, "this administration ought to insist that the international community charge [Assad] with a war crime and prosecute him, and in so doing Obama would be following the law instead of flaunting the law," Farrell said.

Calling for military strikes is "incredibly improper," Farrell continued. But he doesn't think there will be an organized effort to protest the strikes in Hollywood because "we're talking about the difference between an invasion in Iraq and a limited action in response to the use of chemical weapons in Syria."

Asner, though, said that in addition to Hollywood insiders fearing looking like racists for speaking out against Obama, there is a matter of timing involved. Bush took months to make the case for war, while Obama is pushing for swift action.

"It will be a done deal before Hollywood is mobilized," Asner said. "This country will either bomb the hell out of Syria or not before Hollywood gets off its ass."

Asner said that activists are also feeling complacent because their efforts to stop the war in Iraq didn't work.

"We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find," said Asner. "Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?"

But both stars said they are disappointed in Obama, although they had supported him for president.

"I voted for him, but I'm not proud," Asner said. "He hasn't thrown himself on the funeral pyre. I wanted him to sacrifice himself. Instead, he has proved himself to be a corporatist, and as long as he's a corporatist, he's not my president."

Farrell also said he's "deeply disappointed" in Obama's foreign policy, including his "war-making, his reliance on military rather than diplomatic responses, his use of drones, continued allowance of the Guantanamo prison. He's a disappointment to me and other people I know."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Maybe Asner is getting senile. 
Assad has been poisoning the people of Syria for months. 
Acting fast? PpppffffTttt!



peacegoddess said:


> The entire article:
> 
> Ed Asner: Hollywood Mum on Syria Over Fears of Appearing Racist
> Sunday, 08 Sep 2013 09:47 AM
> ...


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Obamas Coalition Half the Size of George W. Bushs
> AP
> 
> BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
> ...


 One questions why one president was so believable yet not our current president. I'm certainly not in favor of another Middle East confrontation, but how can we not act. Do we take ourselves back to the extermination of Jews, and other groups not acceptable to Hitler? We knew much more of what went on there after the war than when it was actually happening.I do think we need proof not rhetoric before acting.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I cannot forget that Mrs. George Zimmerman is an acknowledged liar, though.
> The little Mrs. stayed with that killer and lived by using the donations sent to Mr. Zimmerman all this time. She has no honor.


Yes, She is going to court and she has also filed for divorce. I think they deserve each other.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ed Asner certainly had much to say.
> 
> "We had a million people in the streets, for Christ's sake, protesting Iraq, which was about as illegal as you could find. Did it matter? Is George Bush being tried in the high courts of justice?" asks Asner. "We've been so God-damned stung in this country by false wars, repeatedly, that, how can you believe in any just war with the history we have had?"
> 
> He hit the nail on the head there, in my opinion.


Ed does make a point. Really when was the last war we really had to start or get involved in? We haven't fought for anyone's 
right's or freedom for years. It's all about "protecting our interests" and then so what if there is "collateral damage" that lovely harmless term the U.S. Defense Department made popular back in Vietnam. My we should be so proud. What's a few human lives here and there.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am thinking that it had more to do with the confidence the nation had in General Powell than in the Bush Administration.



miatalover66 said:


> One questions why one president was so believable yet not our current president. I'm certainly not in favor of another Middle East confrontation, but how can we not act. Do we take ourselves back to the extermination of Jews, and other groups not acceptable to Hitler? We knew much more of what went on there after the war than when it was actually happening.I do think we need proof not rhetoric before acting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

There may not be any strikes on Syria. If they give up their chemical weapons, and Russia is pushing hard for Syria to do this, then a strike may not be necessary.
Assad will be taken care of. If his own people don't kill him, the rebels will.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Let's not forget that Bush lied to Congress to get his war.
And the Patriot Act. They will never admit to that even though the evidence is clear as can be.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee, you never know!


So I guess by some people's logic as long as you can get the whole gang to agree to "jump off the bridge" together, presto chango it is the right thing to do. No wonder the GOP is going down the crapper with that type of thinking. 
I had my suspicions about you susan and now that laugh. Is there something you are hiding?


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Let's not forget that Bush lied to Congress to get his war.
> And the Patriot Act. They will never admit to that even though the evidence is clear as can be.


That he did and our children are paying the price.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There may not be any strikes on Syria. If they give up their chemical weapons, and Russia is pushing hard for Syria to do this, then a strike may not be necessary.
> Assad will be taken care of. If his own people don't kill him, the rebels will.


Saying one huge prayer here. Wouldn't it be odd if Russia helped us to avoid a massive mess? 
Would that mean that we have to forgive them this anti-gay BS they are into?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If you are wondering where anti-war Hollywood has been as Obama proves he's not Bush, but only by rushing into a Middle East war with no international coalition and United Nations backing, Ed Asner has the explanation: "A lot of people don't want to feel anti-black by being opposed to Obama," Asner explained to the Hollywood Reporter.


No, we are not wondering. What war did Obama rush into?
We are not in any war that Obama started.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Obamas Coalition Half the Size of George W. Bushs
> AP
> 
> BY: Washington Free Beacon Staff
> ...


They are wonderful liars. Remember daddy Bush was the head of the CIA. I wonder how many people he murdered when he had that job. By the time he got to the White House it was second nature. Baby Bush had Cheney to lead him around and run things for him. Good old evil Dick! I think he died and is just a robot now. His brain is been kept in a cooler like Walt Disney's so it can be attached to a body when they figure out how to do that. The best line out of that family came from mama Barbara when she visited the hurricane victims in the stadium in New Orleans and the first words out of her mouth were, "My aren't we living large!" and she had a big smile on her face when she said it. Yes, I'm sure those people look fondly on those wonderful days of no sanitation, lack of food, water no clean clothes. I know where the "nasty" comes from in that family.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am thinking that it had more to do with the confidence the nation had in General Powell than in the Bush Administration.


jelun2
the very reason Gen. Powell was being "used". Despicable.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, we are not wondering. What war did Obama rush into?
> We are not in any war that Obama started.


BrattyPatty
ain't these folks amazing?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Saying one huge prayer here. Wouldn't it be odd if Russia helped us to avoid a massive mess?
> Would that mean that we have to forgive them this anti-gay BS they are into?


jelun2
really nothing odd about it, Putin is no fool. Everything he does is carefully calculated and the gay issue will be resolved when it will be beneficial for him. Time will tell.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

miatalover66 said:


> That he did and our children are paying the price.


miatalover66
and generations to come.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> ain't these folks amazing?


I had to ask Huck. I just thought I missed something today.

Keeping fingers crossed that Syria will comply.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So I guess by some people's logic as long as you can get the whole gang to agree to "jump off the bridge" together, presto chango it is the right thing to do. No wonder the GOP is going down the crapper with that type of thinking.
> I had my suspicions about you susan and now that laugh. Is there something you are hiding?


Three guesses--winner gets a bag of yarn from my stash!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There may not be any strikes on Syria. If they give up their chemical weapons, and Russia is pushing hard for Syria to do this, then a strike may not be necessary.
> Assad will be taken care of. If his own people don't kill him, the rebels will.


BrattyPatty
Assad is an obstacle and to be kept in check until those who suffered most under him will repay him. His time is running out.


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

One note before turning in... I started a boucle` scarf this evening. I've fought this yarn for over a year, and thanks to the help of you all on KP, I've gotten what I needed to proceed... Larger size bamboo needles and keep it simple.... Thanks for all the thoughtful posts you have shared! Much food for thought and what a nice feeling of community going out over the web! Oh, yeah... bazinga!

Do not engage...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ed does make a point. Really when was the last war we really had to start or get involved in? We haven't fought for anyone's
> right's or freedom for years. It's all about "protecting our interests" and then so what if there is "collateral damage" that lovely harmless term the U.S. Defense Department made popular back in Vietnam. My we should be so proud. What's a few human lives here and there.


As far as I'm concerned, the last legal war the US was involved in was WWII, and we didn't get into that until Pearl Harbor, 2 years after the countries we allied ourselves with were dragged into the fight.

Korea was called a police action. By the time we got into serious fighting and sending large numbers of our men to die in Vietnam we called it a war but we had only been involved in an increasingly sticky, messy debacle. Ho Chi Minh turned to the Communists for support after many years of seeking support for a democratic Vietnam, but many in this country either don't know or don't care about that.

I'm sorry to say, I believe the majority of people in this country who thought Ho Chi Minh was The Big Bad Villian were unaware of history they ought to have known. Heck, the majority of people in this country are more concerned about the newest product McDonald's will offer them than anpart of our history.

To date, no President has gone to Congress for the approval to wage war since WWII. No matter how much I support Obama, I think he will not go to Congress and seek its support to wage a legal war. He was born in 1961, for goodness sake. He has no tangible examples to follow. He was 13 when Nixon resigned. No matter how much he has studied the history of how and why the US has been involved in what we pretend are legal wars, our President only knows what's printed on the dead pages of books.

All of which is to say that I feel in my bones that we're about to take an irrevocable, final step using violence. As far as I am concerned there isn't any difference in an attack made by the US on Syria as the Syrian's use of chemical weapons on their own people, many of whom were women and children. Stay tuned to any channel you like. Coverage of WWIII will start all too soon.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Breaking from Newsmax.com

Hillary: WMD Handover 'Important Step'

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton says any move by Syria to surrender its chemical weapons to international control would be an "important step" to avert a U.S. military strike.

"But this cannot be another excuse for delay or obstruction, she said, adding that Russia, which proposed the action, has to support the international community's efforts sincerely or be held to account."

Clinton spoke at the White House on Monday after meeting with President Barack Obama.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night midwegian. Good night MIB.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night midwegian. Good night MIB.


Are you leaving or are they?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

midwegian said:


> One note before turning in... I started a boucle` scarf this evening. I've fought this yarn for over a year, and thanks to the help of you all on KP, I've gotten what I needed to proceed... Larger size bamboo needles and keep it simple.... Thanks for all the thoughtful posts you have shared! Much food for thought and what a nice feeling of community going out over the web! Oh, yeah... bazinga!
> 
> Do not engage...


Sweet dreams to you! I have always had problems with boucle. Larger needles are indeed the ticket.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I hope the statement from Russia means we won't have a military strike on Syria.
Lawrence O'Donnell is having an interesting interview right now with Anthony Weiner.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sweet dreams to you! I have always had problems with boucle. Larger needles are indeed the ticket.


I too have had that issue with boucle and am working on a simple shawl with a gorgious colored fuchia that was a gift to me.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Are you leaving or are they?


They left. You can't get rid of me that easily. :-D


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They left. You can't get rid of me that easily. :-D


ok girl let loose with something cheeky! i have a really simple but yum pasta salad. Basil, tomatoes, garlic, mozzerilla cheese, and small pasta. I added diced zucchini with evoo.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night midwegian. Good night MIB.


MIB you are back. I thought you has left for the evening.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

It just occured to me that while the mean girls are occupied with derailing Outrageous acts, we could divert the discussion here? And people think booze freezes the brain.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> ok girl let loose with something cheeky! i have a really simple but yum pasta salad. Basil, tomatoes, garlic, mozzerilla cheese, and small pasta. I added diced zucchini with evoo.


Now I want a salad. I will have to go check what is in the fridge but I think we threw together the leftover Chinese take out and threw some almonds on top so maybe some apples to munch on.
I'll be back. I wonder if crazy knitter answered my questions about sex over on the other thread. I may have been doing some awful things to my poor unsuspecting husband all these years and didn't even know it. Yikes! Why does food make me think of sex? Yikes!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sweet dreams to you! I have always had problems with boucle. Larger needles are indeed the ticket.


Good to know I am not the only one who had trouble with that stuff. I thought it was just a "Cheeky" problem.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Ok girls I am out of here. I have a new Louise Penny mystery to start. Sweet dreams to all and to all a good night.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good night peacegoddess! Enjoy the book. I am halfway through with the last Vince Flynn novel and then on to
"I am Nujood, Age 10 and Divorced" by Nujood Ali. I read the first couple of pages and it looks very good! True story.
Sweet Dreams!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OMG. Why doesn't someone stop that idiot?



jelun2 said:


> Here's the celebrated queen of the RWNs congratulating the Egyptian military for killing their citizens. No wonder the right wingers are quiet about intervention in Syria.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/09/07/heres-michele-bachmann-thanking-the-egyptian-military-for-the-coup-and-crackdowns/


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We need help from our 'friends.'



GWPlver said:


> I wish I knew where to find it online but there was an excellent article in the Sunday paper about the pros and cons of military action in Syria. Basically, it's a damned if we do and damned if we don't scenario. There isn't much middle ground with this situation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I saw the "Pink Ladies" at the hearings last night. I am so glad they got good seats and visibility. They showed pictures of protesters outside too and at other sites in the country. Assad is a slippery one. It will be interesting to see how congress will vote. The only poll I have responded to was Bernie Sander's last night and it was 2/3rds to not intervene, 1/3 to go in. Polls can change and be unreliable and if more information comes out who knows which way things will go. I some quarters it doesn't matter what Obama does. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but it's been that way since he took office. It makes me laugh when people see him as a liberal. He is far from it. I think we should give aid to the refugees and to the countries who are taking them in. I feel sorry for the people who are trapped in the country and have no where to go where they can be safe.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They don't want to know anything. They just want to use a buzzword and run. I hope they keep going. Everyone with a brain sees them for what they are.



jelun2 said:


> It would seem that the low information members of the new "Know Nothing Party" are as stupid and lazy as they are are ignorant. They are unable to do any sorting or heavy lifting at all.
> 
> http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/8/6/u-s-files-criminalchargesinbenghaziattackmediareports.html
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They are also naïve as to intelligence. Benghazi was essentially a CIA operation....necessary and risky. Everyone there knew that.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, jelun. I guess when you have nothing new or relevant to say you just keep pulling out the same old red herrings like Benghazi. I say remember Bazinga! It's just as useful and so much more positive. Screaming these same old platitudes isn't going to bring one person back. I wish the right would bring something constructive to the table. Seems like they are still the "do nothing" party and are totally out of steam. I guess we can't expect much from people who have done nothing for so many years. It's who they are and it's so deeply ingrained they are set on autopilot until maybe they find a new leader or something. So sad isn't it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Dame! I love your new avatar!I am signing out or now.
Hugs! see you tomorrow.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have a book waiting for me too. Just trying to catch up first. Sweet dreams. Later.



peacegoddess said:


> Ok girls I am out of here. I have a new Louise Penny mystery to start. Sweet dreams to all and to all a good night.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night Patty and Damemary. Sweet dreams. Bazinga!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love that avatar too. Favorite next to Audrey Hepburn. hugs.



BrattyPatty said:


> Dame! I love your new avatar!I am signing out or now.
> Hugs! see you tomorrow.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga Cheeky and all the white hats.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night Patty and Damemary. Sweet dreams. Bazinga!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> OMG. Why doesn't someone stop that idiot?


I saw that clip on Rachel tonight. That was absolutely ridiculous. Why did Bachmann think she could go running off to Egypt and talk about the Muslim Brotherhood? She should be put on a leash.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or left there without a credit card.



alcameron said:


> I saw that clip on Rachel tonight. That was absolutely ridiculous. Why did Bachmann think she could go running off to Egypt and talk about the Muslim Brotherhood? She should be put on a leash.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Or left there without a credit card.


damemary
nothing like showing the whole World that you are an Idiot. It will be a pleasure to be rid of Bachmann. And then there are her equals. Who elects such Clowns?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, and that is the reason that there was no requirement to have heavy security and why the mercenaries were there.



damemary said:


> They are also naïve as to intelligence. Benghazi was essentially a CIA operation....necessary and risky. Everyone there knew that.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Does you city or town have a composting program? Sf does and it is supposed to apply to all residences and businesses, but my apt house (five units) does not and the biggest hold out to haveing a compost bin is one of the neighbors who insists that the green bins (color of compost bin) attract rats. (not due to the color so I do not confuse anyone on his "logic") Now this neighbor is a bit mean and on this issue I cannot challenge him, as he has been known to say things that get people in trouble with the property agent. but my thought is how do the green bins attrat rats and the regular trash bins (with compostable stuff in them) does not? does anyone else see the way stupidness of his arguement?

I put my compostables in the green bin next door and that takes care of my desire to compost.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sounds like a great solution, PG.



peacegoddess said:


> Does you city or town have a composting program? Sf does and it is supposed to apply to all residences and businesses, but my apt house (five units) does not and the biggest hold out to haveing a compost bin is one of the neighbors who insists that the green bins (color of compost bin) attract rats. (not due to the color so I do not confuse anyone on his "logic") Now this neighbor is a bit mean and on this issue I cannot challenge him, as he has been known to say things that get people in trouble with the property agent. but my thought is how do the green bins attrat rats and the regular trash bins (with compostable stuff in them) does not? does anyone else see the way stupidness of his arguement?
> 
> I put my compostables in the green bin next door and that takes care of my desire to compost.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Does you city or town have a composting program? Sf does and it is supposed to apply to all residences and businesses, but my apt house (five units) does not and the biggest hold out to haveing a compost bin is one of the neighbors who insists that the green bins (color of compost bin) attract rats. (not due to the color so I do not confuse anyone on his "logic") Now this neighbor is a bit mean and on this issue I cannot challenge him, as he has been known to say things that get people in trouble with the property agent. but my thought is how do the green bins attrat rats and the regular trash bins (with compostable stuff in them) does not? does anyone else see the way stupidness of his arguement?
> 
> I put my compostables in the green bin next door and that takes care of my desire to compost.


We have a composting program run by the city. They gather the green and have a huge composting plot. You can also bring trailer loads of stuff to the compost plot in trailers if you have more than your green bin can hold, they check to make sure that what you brought is OK to compost and in it goes. Then when compost material becomes available they post that information in the local paper and any city resident can bring their own containers or trailer and get compost free. Seems to work very well for everyone and at very little cost. I have never heard about rat problems being associated with the composting. I would imagine their are some rats in the landfill area.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> They are also naïve as to intelligence. Benghazi was essentially a CIA operation....necessary and risky. Everyone there knew that.


I'm still amazed that there are people who think liberals, etc. (anybody who disagrees with the far right good speak) have forgotten Benghazi. We may disagree on how and what happened, but I don't think most people have forgotten the outcome, or lost the desire to make sure something like that doesn't happen again to whatever extent that's possible.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Or left there without a credit card.


Good one!:mrgreen: I'll bet she isn't bending to custom and wearing the headscarf and generally modest clothing, either. Bareheaded and sans credit card. Now tha's something I'd rather not risk.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> nothing like showing the whole World that you are an Idiot. It will be a pleasure to be rid of Bachmann. And then there are her equals. Who elects such Clowns?


People who are and who love clowns?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Sounds like a great solution, PG.


Yes, great solution, PG. We're dedicated recyclers where I live and have 3 bins for different recyclables, including the green one. The rats will go anywhere they possibly can.

When I lived in Seattle we were allowed to put out pretty any amount of yard waste like grass clippings, sutff that'd been pruned off whatever, etc. During the heavy gardening season we put out about 6 cans a week as did several of our neighbors. Seattle also raised their garbage rates radically when the recycling effort was firmly established and working really well. To take some of the sting out of the high rates they introduced a half size (25 gallons) garbage can. I had that, and even with a household of five we didn't have an overflow.

Go Recyvling :!: :!: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I think we should all start ending our posts with "Remember West Texas" (fertilizer plant explosion)


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I think we should all start ending our posts with "Remember West Texas" (fertilizer plant explosion)


Excellent idea. There are already lots of people who end their posts with "Remember Benghazi!" so I think that base is well-covered. Remember West, TX!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, jelun. I guess when you have nothing new or relevant to say you just keep pulling out the same old red herrings like Benghazi. I say remember Bazinga! It's just as useful and so much more positive. Screaming these same old platitudes isn't going to bring one person back. I wish the right would bring something constructive to the table. Seems like they are still the "do nothing" party and are totally out of steam. I guess we can't expect much from people who have done nothing for so many years. It's who they are and it's so deeply ingrained they are set on autopilot until maybe they find a new leader or something. So sad isn't it?


Same old red herrings like blaming Bush for everything. This President can't take responsibility for anything he has done in his 5 years in office. What constructive issues have the liberals brought to the table? What have the liberals done to make it easier on the Middle Class during the last 5 years? The rich need to pay their fair share, doesn't cut it and never will. Although you refuse to see it, the Democrats are just as ingrained in their way of thinking as the Republicans. This is the reason nothing gets done in government. Both sides are to blame.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> This is pretty interesting as well.
> 
> http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html
> 
> ...


You also have to remember that the Zimmermans are going through a divorce now, so anything probably goes. Divorces can be nasty, even if there isn't a lot of money involved.

Trayvon Martin was not an innocent child. He was involved in his fair share of violent encounters with a record to back that up.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, neither can I...and we're going to being seeing a lot more of these horrible kinds of cases, I'm afraid. More guns = more murders, plus all the agony that comes afterwards.


It's too bad you show no sympathy for all the victims of the violence in Chicago, Detroit, NYC and NO. All the agony those family members go through on a daily basis. Is it only perceived white on black crime that is bothersome to you?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am just starting the latest Jean Aeul book Land Of the Painted Cave. I have really enjoyed the series, all that prehistoric information that has been coming out in the past few decades incorporated in her writing. HUGE books, though.



BrattyPatty said:


> Good night peacegoddess! Enjoy the book. I am halfway through with the last Vince Flynn novel and then on to
> "I am Nujood, Age 10 and Divorced" by Nujood Ali. I read the first couple of pages and it looks very good! True story.
> Sweet Dreams!


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Does you city or town have a composting program? Sf does and it is supposed to apply to all residences and businesses, but my apt house (five units) does not and the biggest hold out to haveing a compost bin is one of the neighbors who insists that the green bins (color of compost bin) attract rats. (not due to the color so I do not confuse anyone on his "logic") *Now this neighbor is a bit mean and on this issue I cannot challenge him, as he has been known to say things that get people in trouble with the property agent.* but my thought is how do the green bins attrat rats and the regular trash bins (with compostable stuff in them) does not? does anyone else see the way stupidness of his arguement?
> 
> I put my compostables in the green bin next door and that takes care of my desire to compost.


On, no, Peacegoodess! KPG lives next to you?! Oh, no!

Do not engage...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

midwegian said:


> On, no, Peacegoodess! KPG lives next to you?! Oh, no!
> 
> Do not engage...


You made me laugh soooooo loud!


----------



## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

With Bachmann in Egypt and Rodman in No. Korea, I can see we have some work to do on our image abroad... Their arrogance is breath taking! 

Remember West, Texas...

Do not engage...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good one!:mrgreen: I'll bet she isn't bending to custom and wearing the headscarf and generally modest clothing, either. Bareheaded and sans credit card. Now tha's something I'd rather not risk.


Not to mention all the make up she wears. You would need a paint scraper to get that stuff off.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> People who are and who love clowns?


That's who they would be, MIB. I live right outside her district and she has caused so much harm to young people in her district who are GLBT. Sadly, there are a lot of people living there who totally agree that these kids are all going to hell and teach their children it is OK to beat them up and abuse them in school and on the bus. That was my deciding factor to join up with Vote No and OutFront MN to try to stop the insanity and hopefully spare some of these kids and their families what the GLBT people have had to endure for so many years. We even made it on to network TV and Anderson Cooper on CNN because of Bachmann's stand against these kids and then her husbands' Pray Away the Gay. We had kids as young as nine committing suicide because of the cruelty and even sympathetic teachers were intimidated and told to keep silent when they saw these kids being abused. We now have given the GLBT community equal rights that straight couples have always enjoyed and the hours so many people put in were some of the most worthwhile I have ever spent in volunteering and I am so happy that people can marry who they love just as I was able to do.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The LGBT communities everywhere are filled with some very tough cookies and they welcome the support of people who may be "straight but not narrow". It's great to hear you've been able to work as a coalition. I sure you know how precious all the volunteer hours that went ito the No and Outfront MN, and that the struggle isn't over. Party some and then back to the trenches, yes?

I happen to have a wide range of frienda, and know enough people from the LGBT commmunities is a few big US cities to have a pretty good sense that we're talking about a bunch of people who are no less valuable or less worthy of validation than anybody else you could point to. I've been the "Mom" to two transgendered people and it was pretty cool. Easy" No, not always. Worth it? For sure.

If you haven't already worked with PFLAG, thery're anoither bunch of people who know what the LGBT struggle is about.

Remember West, TX!


Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's who they would be, MIB. I live right outside her district and she has caused so much harm to young people in her district who are GLBT. Sadly, there are a lot of people living there who totally agree that these kids are all going to hell and teach their children it is OK to beat them up and abuse them in school and on the bus. That was my deciding factor to join up with Vote No and OutFront MN to try to stop the insanity and hopefully spare some of these kids and their families what the GLBT people have had to endure for so many years. We even made it on to network TV and Anderson Cooper on CNN because of Bachmann's stand against these kids and then her husbands' Pray Away the Gay. We had kids as young as nine committing suicide because of the cruelty and even sympathetic teachers were intimidated and told to keep silent when they saw these kids being abused. We now have given the GLBT community equal rights that straight couples have always enjoyed and the hours so many people put in were some of the most worthwhile I have ever spent in volunteering and I am so happy that people can marry who they love just as I was able to do.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

midwegian said:


> On, no, Peacegoodess! KPG lives next to you?! Oh, no!
> 
> Do not engage...


midwegian
that would be the ultimate punishment.

Remember West, Texas.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You made me laugh soooooo loud!


I thought the very same thing!  :-D :-D


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's who they would be, MIB. I live right outside her district and she has caused so much harm to young people in her district who are GLBT. Sadly, there are a lot of people living there who totally agree that these kids are all going to hell and teach their children it is OK to beat them up and abuse them in school and on the bus. That was my deciding factor to join up with Vote No and OutFront MN to try to stop the insanity and hopefully spare some of these kids and their families what the GLBT people have had to endure for so many years. We even made it on to network TV and Anderson Cooper on CNN because of Bachmann's stand against these kids and then her husbands' Pray Away the Gay. We had kids as young as nine committing suicide because of the cruelty and even sympathetic teachers were intimidated and told to keep silent when they saw these kids being abused. We now have given the GLBT community equal rights that straight couples have always enjoyed and the hours so many people put in were some of the most worthwhile I have ever spent in volunteering and I am so happy that people can marry who they love just as I was able to do.


maybe there needs to be a "Pray Away the Clinic" vigil in front of the clinic in that city. Or how about a massive phone in for fake appointments?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

midwegian said:


> With Bachmann in Egypt and Rodman in No. Korea, I can see we have some work to do on our image abroad... Their arrogance is breath taking!
> 
> Remember West, Texas...
> 
> Do not engage...


midwegian
Only the most stupid will behave as they do. What a mixture of
misfits the GOP has collected. Very sad. It once was a decent Party. To clean up the mess they are in now will take decades.

Remember West, Texas.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Report the idiot to a friendly tree-hugger in city government asking to remain anonymous.

Remember West Texas.



peacegoddess said:


> Does you city or town have a composting program? Sf does and it is supposed to apply to all residences and businesses, but my apt house (five units) does not and the biggest hold out to haveing a compost bin is one of the neighbors who insists that the green bins (color of compost bin) attract rats. (not due to the color so I do not confuse anyone on his "logic") Now this neighbor is a bit mean and on this issue I cannot challenge him, as he has been known to say things that get people in trouble with the property agent. but my thought is how do the green bins attrat rats and the regular trash bins (with compostable stuff in them) does not? does anyone else see the way stupidness of his arguement?
> 
> I put my compostables in the green bin next door and that takes care of my desire to compost.


 :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm still amazed that there are people who think liberals, etc. (anybody who disagrees with the far right good speak) have forgotten Benghazi. We may disagree on how and what happened, but I don't think most people have forgotten the outcome, or lost the desire to make sure something like that doesn't happen again to whatever extent that's possible.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember West Texas Explosion. New battlecry to keep the fertilizer company explosion in memory.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> maybe there needs to be a "Pray Away the Clinic" vigil in front of the clinic in that city. Or how about a massive phone in for fake appointments?


Sounds good. Non illigitimati carborundum est!! Remember Mike Seeger (hence my change of avatar) who did more good for old time music than anyone else! Remember West, TX.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love that series.....and I agree with the size of the hard covers. I keep bonking myself in the nose with them when I fall asleep.



jelun2 said:


> I am just starting the latest Jean Aeul book Land Of the Painted Cave. I have really enjoyed the series, all that prehistoric information that has been coming out in the past few decades incorporated in her writing. HUGE books, though.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This infuriates me.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's who they would be, MIB. I live right outside her district and she has caused so much harm to young people in her district who are GLBT. Sadly, there are a lot of people living there who totally agree that these kids are all going to hell and teach their children it is OK to beat them up and abuse them in school and on the bus. That was my deciding factor to join up with Vote No and OutFront MN to try to stop the insanity and hopefully spare some of these kids and their families what the GLBT people have had to endure for so many years. We even made it on to network TV and Anderson Cooper on CNN because of Bachmann's stand against these kids and then her husbands' Pray Away the Gay. We had kids as young as nine committing suicide because of the cruelty and even sympathetic teachers were intimidated and told to keep silent when they saw these kids being abused. We now have given the GLBT community equal rights that straight couples have always enjoyed and the hours so many people put in were some of the most worthwhile I have ever spent in volunteering and I am so happy that people can marry who they love just as I was able to do.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> This infuriates me.


So much of what the LGBT community goes and has gone through is infuriating, along with a bunch of other things. No more bullying, no more hate crimes, no more bans on same-sex marriage, etc. Remember West, TX.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> So much of what the LGBT community goes and has gone through is infuriating, along with a bunch of other things. No more bullying, no more hate crimes, no more bans on same-sex marriage, etc. Remember West, TX.


And Uganda. I wish they would think before talking about "abhorrent" practices. Would anyone choose to be gay in a country where it gets you lawfully killed?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> And Uganda. I wish they would think before talking about "abhorrent" practices. Would anyone choose to be gay in a country where it gets you lawfully killed?


Where do the examples that prove people don't "choose" to be L, G, B, or T end? Maybe nowhere, maybe never, but I hope most people who are either L, G, B, or T are accepted in as many places as possible. The positive things that are happening in this country are encouraging but we still have a long way to go.

Remember Brandon Teena! Remember Matthew Sheppard!! Remember West, TX!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> maybe there needs to be a "Pray Away the Clinic" vigil in front of the clinic in that city. Or how about a massive phone in for fake appointments?


peacegoddess
count me in.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> maybe there needs to be a "Pray Away the Clinic" vigil in front of the clinic in that city. Or how about a massive phone in for fake appointments?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Now why didn't I think of that? Too funny.!!!!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I saw that clip on Rachel tonight. That was absolutely ridiculous. Why did Bachmann think she could go running off to Egypt and talk about the Muslim Brotherhood? She should be put on a leash.


A leash with a muzzle! What a piece of work! :roll:


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

I just watched President Obamas speech, he addressed my personal concern for taking action but makes a compelling argument for why we need to. I am relieved that Syria sounds like they are taking this seriously. I think Assad needs to be brought before The Hague for war crimes.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have a list about 13 miles long of people who should be tried for war crimes. In fact, I think you are on it!  
I do hope that this diplomatic solution works. 
12 years today. I keep thinking at each anniversary that I will not mourn this year, then I do.



miatalover66 said:


> I just watched President Obamas speech, he addressed my personal concern for taking action but makes a compelling argument for why we need to. I am relieved that Syria sounds like they are taking this seriously. I think Assad needs to be brought before The Hague for war crimes.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Could someone please let me know if they have managed to find some magic words to assist overtly religious people in turning off the "I must prosthelytize" button in their brains. 

I am sick to death of people telling me that I do have a religion since I believe in God. 
I will share my dirty little secret. I believe that there is an entity. I give it the name God. It does almost nothing. It has impacted nothing other than my life , I don't need for it to do anything but the one thing I know it does which is to love me. It is not going to reward me after I pass out of this life, it will not punish me for the many mistakes I have made. The end. Religionists vacuum great areas of woolen carpeting.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Could someone please let me know if they have managed to find some magic words to assist overtly religious people in turning off the "I must prosthelytize" button in their brains.
> 
> I am sick to death of people telling me that I do have a religion since I believe in God.
> I will share my dirty little secret. I believe that there is an entity. I give it the name God. It does almost nothing. It has impacted nothing other than my life , I don't need for it to do anything but the one thing I know it does which is to love me. It is not going to reward me after I pass out of this life, it will not punish me for the many mistakes I have made. The end. Religionists vacuum great areas of woolen carpeting.


jelun2
Erase feature, wouldn't that be heavenly. But you know, deleting any program permanently is very difficult. And those Souls have been programmed to never escape. It must be Hell to always live in fear.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Erase feature, wouldn't that be heavenly. But you know, deleting any program permanently is very difficult. And those Souls have been programmed to never escape. It must be Hell to always live in fear.


Just think of all the Catholics who went to hell for eating meat on Friday. The Vatican changed the "law" and I wonder if those poor souls are still in hell or got a free pass out.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It WILL be a lovely day, I am going to go out and smile at the first 9 people I see and give the next person a $20. bill. 
Hope I can find a mirror right after that 9th!



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Erase feature, wouldn't that be heavenly. But you know, deleting any program permanently is very difficult. And those Souls have been programmed to never escape. It must be Hell to always live in fear.


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

Horrors, what did I do to deserve being on your list?


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## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I have a list about 13 miles long of people who should be tried for war crimes. In fact, I think you are on it!
> I do hope that this diplomatic solution works.
> 12 years today. I keep thinking at each anniversary that I will not mourn this year, then I do.


Horrors! What did I do to deserve being on your list?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I know, isn't the thought of living that way, just so suffocating? 
I never quite understood my good friend's view of Heaven. It was based on the idea that we each get what we want though, I guess. She passed recently. I do hope that she got what she wanted. She had no fear, though, we were both pretty sure that it was what she wanted or nothing.



Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> Erase feature, wouldn't that be heavenly. But you know, deleting any program permanently is very difficult. And those Souls have been programmed to never escape. It must be Hell to always live in fear.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Obama needs your Support!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

medusa said:


> A leash with a muzzle! What a piece of work! :roll:


HI Medusa!! Is your computer up and running? We have missed you! I don't know why they sent Bachmann. She would fit in over there being that she believes that women should be submissive to men.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I don't think any button like the one you want will ever exist. Too many religions consider evangelism and proselizing a necessay part of their religious practice, and that God demands those things of them.


jelun2 said:


> Could someone please let me know if they have managed to find some magic words to assist overtly religious people in turning off the "I must prosthelytize" button in their brains.
> I am sick to death of people telling me that I do have a religion since I believe in God.
> I will share my dirty little secret. I believe that there is an entity. I give it the name God. It does almost nothing. It has impacted nothing other than my life , I don't need for it to do anything but the one thing I know it does which is to love me. It is not going to reward me after I pass out of this life, it will not punish me for the many mistakes I have made. The end. Religionists vacuum great areas of woolen carpeting.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I will have to just try blinders, then.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think any button like the one you want will ever exist. Too many religions consider evangelism and proselizing a necessay part of their religious practice, and that God demands those things of them.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

To add to what I aleady said, I believe there is more to developing the spiritual aspect of ourselves than organized religion. I have been told numerous times on KP that I am the spawn of Satan, will burn in hell, and will find out too late that my beliefs won't get me into Heaven. If I have to be scared into believing certain things, how valid is my belief? When religion is a straightjacket, it isn't the fortune many Christians say it is.

No, I can't imagine living in a narrow spiritual way. That scares me more than some supposed place like Hell. I guess some of us have to put our blinders on, and not only about religion, but for other things as well. That doesn't mean we have no knowledge of what leads us to pick up the blinders or that we haven't done anything to effect positive change, it just means we don't need to see any more to have a full understanding of something we can't hope to change.


jelun2 said:


> Could someone please let me know if they have managed to find some magic words to assist overtly religious people in turning off the "I must prosthelytize" button in their brains.
> 
> I am sick to death of people telling me that I do have a religion since I believe in God.
> I will share my dirty little secret. I believe that there is an entity. I give it the name God. It does almost nothing. It has impacted nothing other than my life , I don't need for it to do anything but the one thing I know it does which is to love me. It is not going to reward me after I pass out of this life, it will not punish me for the many mistakes I have made. The end. Religionists vacuum great areas of woolen carpeting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> No, I can't imagine living in a narrow spiritual way. That scares me more than some supposed place like Hell.


Who knows, maybe that IS Hell!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Who knows, maybe that IS Hell!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

The die hards have a hopelessly tangled mix of religion and politics and they are our own homegrown theocrats. They don't have a clue how repugnant they are to other Americans as they see them selves as "the chosen". They are so misguided. Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Quite simply Jesus was saying keep your politics out of your religion. They are so inward looking they have blinded themselves to all that is true and don't even follow Christ any longer. They have no humility, no compassion, nothing Christlike about them and it is that thinking that allows them to believe that it is OK to conduct themselves like the ill mannered and ill informed people that they are. They want to impose Christian theocracy on America and are so puffed up and vain they believe it is their right to do so. They hate Muslim theocrats who do the same thing. There is only one difference and that is their choice of religion that they want to shove down people's throats. They are no better or worse than any other theocrats. I pray that the GOP will be resorted to sanity and they will realize they are only despots trying to force their own ideology on people who don't care about what they believe. They are like a bunch of gnats or ants who show up uninvited on your blanket and pinic table and every time they show up they are unwittingly furthering our cause and not there own. You are all doing a marvelous job Liberal Ladies and be proud of your contributions here and on the other new threads that you have started. "Normal" folks would see the error of their ways and the futility of their actions but these are not normal people we are dealing with. We know they have no self control and will return but carry on as brilliantly as you have been doing. We can only hope they will someday tire of us but we hold a fascination for them so wear it as a badge of honor that they hold us in such high esteem. As the sun rises in the east and sets in the west they will return just like clock work. They are our cross to bear so bear it we must. Just turn away and carry on. Nothing to see there but a bad car wreck and who needs that except them, I guess. 
On the anniversary of 9/11, please remember all the Americans and first responders who died. Also remember all who died in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan so needlessly on both sides and hopefully give our leaders the ability to do what is best in Syria. What is the moral thing and not what is politically expedient. Let us always seek the moral high ground.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/ - 35k - Cached - Similar pages


----------



## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam - is that Mike Seeger in your avatar? If so, let me know. He came to my neck of the woods and brought Moran "Dock" Boggs out of retirement in the 60's. We have an annual Dock Boggs and Kate Peters Sturgill Festival here every year. In fact, it is this weekend. Mike Seeger came for the 40th anniversary a couple of years ago.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So wrong you are. You will find the truth when it is to late. You will not have the excuse that no one told me,


And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence. --Bertrand Russell.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

shayfaye said:


> MaidInBedlam - is that Mike Seeger in your avatar? If so, let me know. He came to my neck of the woods and brought Moran "Dock" Boggs out of retirement in the 60's. We have an annual Dock Boggs and Kate Peters Sturgill Festival here every year. In fact, it is this weekend. Mike Seeger came for the 40th anniversary a couple of years ago.


That is indeed Mike Seeger as my avatar. I just finished reading a biography about him called Music from the True Vine by Bill C. Malone, which is pretty good. Dock Boggs was one of Mike's favorite musicians. When Mike died in August, 2009, we really lost someone incredibly important in the world of old timey music. What a nice coincidence that you come from the same area as Dock Boggs and recognize Mike, too. Despite his labors, Mike was often overshadowed by how many people were familiar with Pete Seeger.

I first heard The New Lost City Ramblers on vinyl in the fall of 1962. I was a teen-age volunteer at the Berkeley Folk Music Festival in the nid-late 60's. My teen girlfriends and I were almost as gaga for the NLCR as our contemporaries were for the Beatles. LOL. I even celebrated my 21st birthday at a show they gave where liqour was served and you HAD to be 21 to go in there. I think I sipped a little beer, but I was really too busy listening and watching. Mike and the Ramblers spent some time in Seattle, too, and hung out with some of us former Berkeley crazies who owned a pizza shop that supported our commune. We were all string band enthusiasts and evolved into square and contra-dancers over the years. If you go to the Dock Boggs/Kate Peters Sturgill Festival I hope you have a great time. :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thanks for all you said here. It seems that once a person becomes a fundamentalist and fanatical adherent of any religion, they view everyone outside their belief system to be worthless, or even worth killing off. Holy Wars, Crusades, ethnic cleansing. All aimed at different religions. Heck of a world, isn't it?


Cheeky Blighter said:


> The die hards have a hopelessly tangled mix of religion and politics and they are our own homegrown theocrats. They don't have a clue how repugnant they are to other Americans as they see them selves as "the chosen". They are so misguided. Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Quite simply Jesus was saying keep your politics out of your religion. They are so inward looking they have blinded themselves to all that is true and don't even follow Christ any longer. They have no humility, no compassion, nothing Christlike about them and it is that thinking that allows them to believe that it is OK to conduct themselves like the ill mannered and ill informed people that they are. They want to impose Christian theocracy on America and are so puffed up and vain they believe it is their right to do so. They hate Muslim theocrats who do the same thing. There is only one difference and that is their choice of religion that they want to shove down people's throats. They are no better or worse than any other theocrats. I pray that the GOP will be resorted to sanity and they will realize they are only despots trying to force their own ideology on people who don't care about what they believe. They are like a bunch of gnats or ants who show up uninvited on your blanket and pinic table and every time they show up they are unwittingly furthering our cause and not there own. You are all doing a marvelous job Liberal Ladies and be proud of your contributions here and on the other new threads that you have started. "Normal" folks would see the error of their ways and the futility of their actions but these are not normal people we are dealing with. We know they have no self control and will return but carry on as brilliantly as you have been doing. We can only hope they will someday tire of us but we hold a fascination for them so wear it as a badge of honor that they hold us in such high esteem. As the sun rises in the east and sets in the west they will return just like clock work. They are our cross to bear so bear it we must. Just turn away and carry on. Nothing to see there but a bad car wreck and who needs that except them, I guess.
> On the anniversary of 9/11, please remember all the Americans and first responders who died. Also remember all who died in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan so needlessly on both sides and hopefully give our leaders the ability to do what is best in Syria. What is the moral thing and not what is politically expedient. Let us always seek the moral high ground.
> 
> http://www.theocracywatch.org/ - 35k - Cached - Similar pages


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence. --Bertrand Russell.


I think Bertrand was on to something. Let the message be spread around as much as possible.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence. --Bertrand Russell.


So true susan. The zealots make me laugh proclaiming the "truth" as they see it. If they were so sure of what they believe why must they keep shouting it out in every public venue they can intrude upon. Where is their confidence? I know what I believe and am not compelled to shout it from the rooftops. Is this how they are trying to convert unbelievers by acting as if they are insane? Oh yes sign me up for that. Really? Maybe that thing called the rapture already happened and they are all still here with the rest of us? Oh, oh! I know who created me and I have that "blessed assurance" and not a care in the world. Where is that "faith" they claim to have? Sure are a bunch of frightened people for folks who claim they are saved and have all the answers and so freely tell all others they are going to hell. If heaven is filled with people like them nobody would want to go. They give God such a bad name. Now let's watch while they complain about how everyone persecutes them and then they will tell us to go to hell. They are a strange bunch.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sitting here with my knitting taking a short break from the rest of my life. Bernie Sanders is on the Ed Show talking so much sense that I want to stand up and cheer!! He is saying that the President needs to stop pussy-footing around Washington trying to do business with radical right Congressmen and take a cue from Franklin Roosevelt. Yay!! Some of us have been saying this for 3-4 years. He can't be afraid of angering millionaires and billionaires, but he needs to address the American people and speak very bluntly about what needs to be done with jobs, infrastructure, health care, and education and to put the blame for the inactivity getting these things done right where it belongs----on the jerks in the House! The republicans said they wouldn't vote for the military strike on Syria because that's the will of the American people. Well, guess what? They sure don't respond to what's good for the people in any other area, do they? Has there been one piece of legislation that has come out of this Congress that does anything for the majority of the American public? Can you hear me screaming? I'm sick to death of the nothingness that is our current Congress. I think I need to withhold my tax money that goes to pay their salaries because they're doing NADA!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks for citing that!



susanmos2000 said:


> And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence. --Bertrand Russell.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Thanks for citing that!


No problem, Jelun. Russell was quite a guy, wasn't he?

"Russell was a prominent anti-war activist; he championed anti-imperialism and went to prison for his pacifism during World War I. Later, he campaigned against Adolf Hitler, then criticised Stalinist totalitarianism, attacked the involvement of the United States of America in the Vietnam War, and was an outspoken proponent of nuclear disarmament. In 1950 Russell was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature "in recognition of his varied and significant writings in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought."[wikipedia]


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No problem, Jelun. Russell was quite a guy, wasn't he?


He certainly was.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thank you so much for expressing that so thoroughly and succinctly. 
I think that you are correct about the mainstream Americans viewing the evangelist fundamentalists as, how do I put this nicely, outside the norm. 
For that matter the few evangelists that I spent time with because of work might offer what they saw as a solution for some issue in a person's life, when told "NO" they respected that response and the subject was dropped. Recruitment was not raised in every discussion.

So far as politics are concerned, I think that rational conservatives will recognize that the ubers take them way too far, that they cannot win elections when they put them on the ballot so they feel disenfranchised. It could play either way I suppose. We could have a civil war/revolution.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> The die hards have a hopelessly tangled mix of religion and politics and they are our own homegrown theocrats. They don't have a clue how repugnant they are to other Americans as they see them selves as "the chosen". They are so misguided. Jesus said to render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and render unto God what is God's. Quite simply Jesus was saying keep your politics out of your religion. They are so inward looking they have blinded themselves to all that is true and don't even follow Christ any longer. They have no humility, no compassion, nothing Christlike about them and it is that thinking that allows them to believe that it is OK to conduct themselves like the ill mannered and ill informed people that they are. They want to impose Christian theocracy on America and are so puffed up and vain they believe it is their right to do so. They hate Muslim theocrats who do the same thing. There is only one difference and that is their choice of religion that they want to shove down people's throats. They are no better or worse than any other theocrats. I pray that the GOP will be resorted to sanity and they will realize they are only despots trying to force their own ideology on people who don't care about what they believe. They are like a bunch of gnats or ants who show up uninvited on your blanket and pinic table and every time they show up they are unwittingly furthering our cause and not there own. You are all doing a marvelous job Liberal Ladies and be proud of your contributions here and on the other new threads that you have started. "Normal" folks would see the error of their ways and the futility of their actions but these are not normal people we are dealing with. We know they have no self control and will return but carry on as brilliantly as you have been doing. We can only hope they will someday tire of us but we hold a fascination for them so wear it as a badge of honor that they hold us in such high esteem. As the sun rises in the east and sets in the west they will return just like clock work. They are our cross to bear so bear it we must. Just turn away and carry on. Nothing to see there but a bad car wreck and who needs that except them, I guess.
> On the anniversary of 9/11, please remember all the Americans and first responders who died. Also remember all who died in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan so needlessly on both sides and hopefully give our leaders the ability to do what is best in Syria. What is the moral thing and not what is politically expedient. Let us always seek the moral high ground.
> 
> http://www.theocracywatch.org/ - 35k - Cached - Similar pages


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Susanmos - seems you got out of your Catholic religion right quick like even though you are God Blessing others on the thread you began seeking and accepting others' prayers. Guess you only claim Jesus and God's grace when it suits your purposes.

Good luck with that. Perhaps Russell can help you achieve and get you to Nirvana.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susanmos - seems you got out of your Catholic religion right quick like even though you are God Blessing others on the thread you began seeking and accepting others' prayers. Guess you only claim Jesus and God's grace when it suits your purposes.
> 
> Good luck with that. Perhaps Russell can help you.


Don't know what you mean, KPG--is that perhaps a reference to my terminally ill brother?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Mr. Russell gives us another reason(or several) to recognize just how correct Rick Santorum, failed Republican Presidential hopeful, was when he reminded us that extreme conservatives would never have elite, smart people on their side... he was incorrect about the reasons, but he was on to something.



aw9358 said:


> He certainly was.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susanmos - seems you got out of your Catholic religion right quick like even though you are God Blessing others on the thread you began seeking and accepting others' prayers. Guess you only claim Jesus and God's grace when it suits your purposes.
> 
> Good luck with that. Perhaps Russell can help you achieve and get you to Nirvana.


Unspeakable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Who knows, maybe that IS Hell!


susanmos2000
I am quite sure you are right. Why would these folks otherwise be so angry ALL THE TIME.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I bet you're right. I hadn't thought of that.



Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> I am quite sure you are right. Why would these folks otherwise always be so angry ALL THE TIME.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susanmos - seems you got out of your Catholic religion right quick like even though you are God Blessing others on the thread you began seeking and accepting others' prayers. Guess you only claim Jesus and God's grace when it suits your purposes.
> 
> Good luck with that. Perhaps Russell can help you achieve and get you to Nirvana.


KPG
you MAY have had a chance to get to your Heaven. No longer, your despiscable behavior can never be forgiven. You satanic spewings are so poisonous that it would take a new Religion to rid you of it. Any existing one is insufficient to ever cleanse you.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No problem, Jelun. Russell was quite a guy, wasn't he?
> 
> "Russell was a prominent anti-war activist; he championed anti-imperialism and went to prison for his pacifism during World War I. Later, he campaigned against Adolf Hitler, then criticised Stalinist totalitarianism, attacked the involvement of the United States of America in the Vietnam War, and was an outspoken proponent of nuclear disarmament. In 1950 Russell was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature "in recognition of his varied and significant writings in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought."[wikipedia]


Advocate for women's rights also.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Susanmos - seems you got out of your Catholic religion right quick like even though you are God Blessing others on the thread you began seeking and accepting others' prayers. Guess you only claim Jesus and God's grace when it suits your purposes.
> 
> Good luck with that. Perhaps Russell can help you achieve and get you to Nirvana.


susanmos2000
the Hearts many of us here are with you and your Family. KPG is just trying to make sure that the World gets to see her despicable behavior while regularly quoting HER Bible. She has a great need to be on the top. In which manner reallly does not matter and since it is so easy for her to be nasty, she has chosen to become the Empress of that trait.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I LOVE LOVE LOVE Bernie Sanders. My last surviving aunt lives in VT and loves to tease me on the rare occasions that we talk about the fact that she gets to send an avowed socialist to DC. 
One of these days Americans will figure out that we have that section about "general welfare" to take care of.



alcameron said:


> I am sitting here with my knitting taking a short break from the rest of my life. Bernie Sanders is on the Ed Show talking so much sense that I want to stand up and cheer!! He is saying that the President needs to stop pussy-footing around Washington trying to do business with radical right Congressmen and take a cue from Franklin Roosevelt. Yay!! Some of us have been saying this for 3-4 years. He can't be afraid of angering millionaires and billionaires, but he needs to address the American people and speak very bluntly about what needs to be done with jobs, infrastructure, health care, and education and to put the blame for the inactivity getting these things done right where it belongs----on the jerks in the House! The republicans said they wouldn't vote for the military strike on Syria because that's the will of the American people. Well, guess what? They sure don't respond to what's good for the people in any other area, do they? Has there been one piece of legislation that has come out of this Congress that does anything for the majority of the American public? Can you hear me screaming? I'm sick to death of the nothingness that is our current Congress. I think I need to withhold my tax money that goes to pay their salaries because they're doing NADA!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Some good news

Published on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 by Common Dreams
Despite Big Bank Threats, City Approves 'Eminent Domain for the People'
Richmond, Calif. approves measure to seize 'underwater homes' in order to write-down mortgages and save homeowners

- Jon Queally, staff writer
The city council of Richmond, California on Wednesday approved a bold plan to use the authority of the municipal government's 'eminent domain' laws to help underwater homeowners.

Bucking the threat of lawsuits from large banks and other financial interests, approval of the measure is a victory for the city's progressive-minded Green Party Mayor Gayle McLaughlin, not to mention the city residents struggling with homes that lost a majority of their value in the wake of the financial collapse of 2008.

According to Reuters:

Richmond can now invoke eminent domain if trusts for more than 620 delinquent and performing "underwater" mortgages reject offers made by the city to buy the loans at deep discount pegged to their properties' current appraised prices to refinance them and reduce their principal.

A mortgage is under water when its unpaid balance is greater than its property's market value.

MRP has failed to get similar plans approved by local governments elsewhere - most recently in North Las Vegas, Nevada and earlier this year in San Bernardino County in Southern California - as the mortgage industry and local real estate businesses rallied against them.
Though the city council's approval will come as a positive step by housing and economic justice advocates in California and elsewhere, the legal challenges will likely be intense. As Reuters continues:

...the Federal Housing Finance Agency recently said it would press Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to limit or cease its business where such proposals get approved, effectively closing off most mortgage financing there.

Investors holding the mortgages targeted by Richmond [...] have sued through trustees Wells Fargo & Co and Deutsche Bank AG in U.S. District Court to block the plan, which they say relies on them swallowing losses. The two sides square off in court in person for the first time on Thursday.
However, the fight is one that many upset about the way the housing crisis has been addressed by both state and federal authorities seem willing to have. As Common Dreams previously reported:

Big banks have been slammed for their damaging mortgage loan policies that target poor and working class people and communities of color with high risk loans, policies that have had a profound impact on Richmond, which has large latino, African American, and low-income communities.

Eminent domain laws also have a painful history in Richmond, but housing justice advocates are hopeful about this new twist on the seizure law.

"For years we have seen cases where eminent domain was used in a harmful way, and it really hurts low-income communities of color," David Sharples, local director for Contra Costa Alliance of Californians for Community Empowerment, told Common Dreams. "People here in Richmond talk about when they built the big 580 Freeway, and people had their houses taken and were displaced."

"But we see this as a way eminent domain is finally being used to help keep families in their homes," he added. "It is finally a way for it to be used in a good way."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> the Hearts many of us here are with you and your Family. KPG is just trying to make sure that the World gets to see her despicable behavior while regularly quoting HER Bible. She has a great need to be on the top. In which manner reallly does not matter and since it is so easy for her to be nasty, she has chosen to become the Empress of that trait.


Thanks, Huck--seems I was wise to share Tim's story with only you and the other liberal ladies until today. The KP members who posted on the other thread have also been wonderfully supportive, but I can't say much for the one here who responded with jeers and taunts. Seems she needs help--desperately.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I think it is beyond help, Susan. But, you know that we are all sending love, bright thoughts, prayers and all we can do to make this time less difficult for you and your family.
Just ignore it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think it is beyond help, Susan. But, you know that we are all sending love, bright thoughts, prayers and all we can do to make this time less difficult for you and your family.
> Just ignore it.


Absolutely, Patty. Frankly I don't give a sh-t anymore what certain people have to say. How could a few insults hurt after what's already transpired?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks susan for posting the Russell quote. Love it.



susanmos2000 said:


> No problem, Jelun. Russell was quite a guy, wasn't he?
> 
> "Russell was a prominent anti-war activist; he championed anti-imperialism and went to prison for his pacifism during World War I. Later, he campaigned against Adolf Hitler, then criticised Stalinist totalitarianism, attacked the involvement of the United States of America in the Vietnam War, and was an outspoken proponent of nuclear disarmament. In 1950 Russell was awarded the Nobel Prize in Literature "in recognition of his varied and significant writings in which he champions humanitarian ideals and freedom of thought."[wikipedia]


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OMG. Susan, I'm so sorry KPG is such an insufferable idiot.

To everyone besides me who thinks this is way out of line, please take a moment to post your thoughts.

Susan's brother has been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, but he is fighting valiantly and well. You may imagine what a difficult time this is for a loving family. Such horrid words don't make it easier. Some people don't let decency interfere with a sharp tongue.



susanmos2000 said:


> Don't know what you mean, KPG--is that perhaps a reference to my terminally ill brother?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The only help she/he/it's getting from me is a kick in the can.



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Huck--seems I was wise to share Tim's story with only you and the other liberal ladies until today. The KP members who posted on the other thread have also been wonderfully supportive, but I can't say much for the one here who responded with jeers and taunts. Seems she needs help--desperately.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> OMG. Susan, I'm so sorry KPG is such an insufferable idiot.
> 
> To everyone besides me who thinks this is way out of line, please take a moment to post your thoughts.
> 
> Susan's brother has been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, but he is fighting valiantly and well. You may imagine what a difficult time this is for a loving family. Such horrid words don't make it easier. Some people don't let decency interfere with a sharp tongue.


Just when you think it can't get any lower, it does. 
It was very out of line, but what else is new? It has no class whatsoever. You were too kind, dame.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just when you think it can't get any lower, it does.
> It was very out of line, but what else is new? It has no class whatsoever. You were too kind, dame.


Friends
whatever wayward Religion KPG belongs to, it will never bring her Peace nor rest beyond this Life. It has poisoned her to the core and there is no antidote to reverse her condition.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000
the nastiness of some can never overshadow the kindness of so many. Kindness will triumph by a wide margin. The majority of my fellow Americans are very decent people. Let us celebrate them and pity the rest. Huck


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I LOVE LOVE LOVE Bernie Sanders. My last surviving aunt lives in VT and loves to tease me on the rare occasions that we talk about the fact that she gets to send an avowed socialist to DC.
> One of these days Americans will figure out that we have that section about "general welfare" to take care of.


Bernie is my favorite senator, jelun and one of the best people D.C. He has his finger on the pulse of America and really understands we the people. I only wish that I could vote for him. I wish all senators and congress people would do surveys as he does and keep in such close communication with the folks back home. He is so intelligent and combined with his practicality and common sense he really accomplishes a lot. We could use a lot more doers like him and fewer obstructionists and get the country moving again.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bernie is my favorite senator, jelun and one of the best people D.C. He has his finger on the pulse of America and really understands we the people. I only wish that I could vote for him. I wish all senators and congress people would do surveys as he does and keep in such close communication with the folks back home. He is so intelligent and combined with his practicality and common sense he really accomplishes a lot. We could use a lot more doers like him and fewer obstructionists and get the country moving again.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

"But we see this as a way eminent domain is finally being used to help keep families in their homes," he added. "It is finally a way for it to be used in a good way."

If you want peace, work for justice.

Great idea and I hope others will try it. Thanks for sharing that peacegoddess.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm off to dreamland Ladies. See you tomorrow.

Bazinga!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sweet Dreams Cheeky!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Nighty-night


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Good night all--thank you everyone for your prayers and words of support. Love you all!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

KPG is so low that she doesn't deserve even one tiny direct insult. She'll just gloat over any she and finger them in the darkness of her heart as if they were precious jewels. For those of you who are familiar with the Lord of The Rings, she's just like Gollum.

Hang in there, Susan, and know you've got a bunch of folks here who care about you.


damemary said:


> OMG. Susan, I'm so sorry KPG is such an insufferable idiot.
> 
> To everyone besides me who thinks this is way out of line, please take a moment to post your thoughts.
> 
> Susan's brother has been diagnosed with stage 4 cancer, but he is fighting valiantly and well. You may imagine what a difficult time this is for a loving family. Such horrid words don't make it easier. Some people don't let decency interfere with a sharp tongue.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> KPG is so low that she doesn't deserve even one tiny direct insult. She'll just gloat over any she and finger them in the darkness of her heart as if they were precious jewels. For those of you who are familiar with the Lord of The Rings, she's just like Gollum.


You have a wonderful way with words, but I'll never get that image out of my head now.

I'm adding my best wishes to Susan too, but absolutely no prayers.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Don't know what you mean, KPG--is that perhaps a reference to my terminally ill brother?


Nope - never mentioned anyone but you. You mention your religion, accept and receive prayers, bless others and then blame your religious beliefs. Meanwhile you regularly condemn others.

Within minutes or hours of you stating you are a Christian on one thread, you immediately condemned Christianity (your religion) and agreed and praised a man's words (Russell) about why he isn't a Christian on another thread (this one).

You're the very definition of a hypocrite. I've pointed out the real you so those who may have believed you to be a Christian know the truth.

The Truth always prevails. BTW: I did not respond with jeers and taunts. I've made a comment about how you mocked your alleged religion and only claim it when it suits your purpose. In this case, your religion carried you for minutes only before you denied and mocked it yet again.

I have and continue to pray for your soul.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It certainly sounds good on the face of it, makes good sense as well, too bad they and many other municipalities couldn't have done this several years ago. 
I hope it doesn't cost the city too much in suits.



peacegoddess said:


> Some good news
> 
> Published on Wednesday, September 11, 2013 by Common Dreams
> Despite Big Bank Threats, City Approves 'Eminent Domain for the People'
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So sorry to hear about your brother, Susanmos2000, grab every bit of love you can. My prayers go out to you and yours.



susanmos2000 said:


> Don't know what you mean, KPG--is that perhaps a reference to my terminally ill brother?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Maybe Obama should be thanking the Catholics for the Putin Plan. There was a National Day of Prayer Saturday for a peaceful solution. Then on Monday the Russians save the day.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Happy Thursday Morning. 
I am reading today about lying "Christian" ladies and the wisdom of those who have come before us. I much prefer the latter. 
What are you reading about?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - never mentioned anyone but you. You mention your religion, accept and receive prayers, bless others and then blame your religious beliefs. Meanwhile you regularly condemn others.
> 
> Within minutes or hours of you stating you are a Christian on one thread, you immediately condemned Christianity (your religion) and agreed and praised a man's words about why he isn't a Christian on another thread (this one).
> 
> ...


Well stated


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - never mentioned anyone but you. You mention your religion, accept and receive prayers, bless others and then blame your religious beliefs. Meanwhile you regularly condemn others.
> 
> Within minutes or hours of you stating you are a Christian on one thread, you immediately condemned Christianity (your religion) and agreed and praised a man's words (Russell) about why he isn't a Christian on another thread (this one).
> 
> ...


You are the lowest of the low, KPG. It wouldn't have believed my regard for you could have dropped any lower but, incredibly, it has. No doubt cackling over my and my family's misfortune has warmed that vile little heart of yours. Save your prayers--considering the source they are worth less than nothing.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You are the lowest of the low, KPG. It wouldn't have believed my regard for you could have dropped any lower but, incredibly, it has. No doubt cackling over my and my family's misfortune has warmed that vile little heart of yours. Save your prayers--considering the source they are worth less than nothing.


Try as you may, you cannot speak for me nor put the words you'd like in my mouth so you can portray me as you would like to. As I've stated prior, I spoke only about you and your denial of your religion.

As I've also stated recently, I'll continue to pray for you and your soul.


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Susan,
Ignore KPG.
Too many others are sending good wishes and prayers for peace your way. Please let this override any spark KPG may incite in your heart. There is only room in there for your family at the moment, as there should be. 
How sad that people have to use such meanness as a way to try and exert the smallest measure of power over others. Shows you just how little they have in their lives, doesn't it?
You are loved, respected and prayed for on this site.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Maybe Obama should be thanking the Catholics for the Putin Plan. There was a National Day of Prayer Saturday for a peaceful solution. Then on Monday the Russians save the day.


Of course. It works every time.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

shayfaye said:


> Susan,
> Ignore KPG.
> Too many others are sending good wishes and prayers for peace your way. Please let this override any spark KPG may incite in your heart. There is only room in there for your family at the moment, as there should be.
> How sad that people have to use such meanness as a way to try and exert the smallest measure of power over others. Shows you just how little they have in their lives, doesn't it?
> You are loved, respected and prayed for on this site.


Thanks, Shayfaye. Thankfully one person's unpleasantness hasn't been enough to lesson the comfort I take from such an outpouring of warmth and support. Up to now I've been pretty tight-lipped about Tim's story, but in the last few days the tension and stress I've been experiencing became too much for me to deal with by myself. That's one of the terrible things about a crisis involving multiple family members--we don't want to burden those we're closest to with our anguish as they're experiencing the very same emotions themselves. Thank God for support groups and sites like these.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> It certainly sounds good on the face of it, makes good sense as well, too bad they and many other municipalities couldn't have done this several years ago.
> I hope it doesn't cost the city too much in suits.


The sad part here is that Obama has given the feds the go ahead to oppose the effort.

I am not disappointed in his presidency, (because I had no expectations) I am offened by his policies, like opposing this effort to assist people. but I knew from the beginning he was a centrist and am so glad I do not have to feel I wasted my vote on him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

When it turns out that this plan that has been discussed for a year doesn't turn out well and makes people (taxpaying people) squeal will those folks take all the blame, do you suppose?



aw9358 said:


> Of course. It works every time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> You have a wonderful way with words, but I'll never get that image out of my head now.
> I'm adding my best wishes to Susan too, but absolutely no prayers.


I hope that image doesn't make you feel nauseated or anything like that. Maybe it will make it easier to ignore our personal Gollum. Maybe you could think of all of our detractore as Gollum.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we love you too. Hang in there.



susanmos2000 said:


> Good night all--thank you everyone for your prayers and words of support. Love you all!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

shayfaye said:


> Susan,
> Ignore KPG.
> Too many others are sending good wishes and prayers for peace your way. Please let this override any spark KPG may incite in your heart. There is only room in there for your family at the moment, as there should be.
> How sad that people have to use such meanness as a way to try and exert the smallest measure of power over others. Shows you just how little they have in their lives, doesn't it?
> You are loved, respected and prayed for on this site.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I should think we all appreciate peace....no matter the source. I do.



aw9358 said:


> Of course. It works every time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Try as you may, you cannot speak for me nor put the words you'd like in my mouth so you can portray me as you would like to. As I've stated prior, I spoke only about you and your denial of your religion.
> 
> As I've also stated recently, I'll continue to pray for you and your soul.


Ordinarily I would ignore you completely, but you've attacked someone I care about, and I can't let that pass without speaking to you directly. Since this isn't the time to critisize Susan about her religion and what she may say about it here and on other topics, yes, you've used the occassion of her personal tragedy to lecture her about supposedly denying her religion. Christian charity and kindness should be more important to you than kicking someone when they're down, no matter who that is.

You every word proves you are incapable of understanding that some people practice a religion and have a variety of other attitudes that may seem contradictory to you. You are in the unfortunate position to have frozen your religion so you never have to question anything about it. I pity you for not having a living, growing, evolving relationship with God.

I know you will attack me, probably at length. You will be wasting your time. While you say your prayers, it might be a good idea to ask to be forgiven for your spectacular lack of charity and kindness.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

What the City of Richmond is doing is a bold, new way to look at emminent domain. As I understand it there may be some huge pitfalls ahead of them. If they succeed, they will set an important precedent. I live near enough to Richmond to know what the City is up against in a variety of ways. I'm hoping what they're doing will succeed. They deserve it.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

damemary said:


> OMG. Susan, I'm so sorry KPG is such an insufferable idiot.
> 
> To everyone besides me who thinks this is way out of line, please take a moment to post your thoughts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ordinarily I would ignore you completely, but you've attacked someone I care about, and I can't let that pass without speaking to you directly. Since this isn't the time to critisize Susan about her religion and what she may say about it here and on other topics, yes, you've used the occassion of her personal tragedy to lecture her about supposedly denying her religion. Christian charity and kindness should be more important to you than kicking someone when they're down, no matter who that is.
> 
> You every word proves you are incapable of understanding that some people practice a religion and have a variety of other attitudes that may seem contradictory to you. You are in the unfortunate position to have frozen your religion so you never have to question anything about it. I pity you for not having a living, growing, evolving relationship with God.
> 
> I know you will attack me, probably at length. You will be wasting your time. While you say your prayers, it might be a good idea to ask to be forgiven for your spectacular lack of charity and kindness.


YAY! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Maybe we could give Susan a little humorous support by changing our avatars to pictures of ladies in hats. It's a little thing. It's a little silly, too. Sometimes, in the midst of tragedy, someone can use a little sillyness.

I googled "pictures of women's hats" and found my new avatar in mere moments. Susan, I hope you like it. I dearly hope you can spend as much time as possible with your brother.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It seems that if municipalities can take property of individual families in order to accommodate business that the reverse should be true, who knows in this day of cocky Kochs.



MaidInBedlam said:


> What the City of Richmond is doing is a bold, new way to look at emminent domain. As I understand it there may be some huge pitfalls ahead of them. If they succeed, they will set an important precedent. I live near enough to Richmond to know what the City is up against in a variety of ways. I'm hoping what they're doing will succeed. They deserve it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So long as it needn't be red or black.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe we could give Susan a little humorous support by changing our avatars to pictures of ladies in hats. It's a little thing. It's a little silly, too. Sometimes, in the midst of tragedy, someone can use a little sillyness.
> 
> I googled "pictures of women's hats" and found my new avatar in mere moments. Susan, I hope you like it. I dearly hope you can spend as much time as possible with your brother.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ordinarily I would ignore you completely, but you've attacked someone I care about, and I can't let that pass without speaking to you directly.
> 
> I know you will attack me, probably at length. You will be wasting your time. While you say your prayers, it might be a good idea to ask to be forgiven for your spectacular lack of charity and kindness.


The words in this PM you sent to DonnieK are yours, correct? I want to be sure I'm reading only what you, yourself wrote and posted.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-197762-1.html



maidinbedlam said:


> If I haven't made myself clear, that's your problem. Stay far, far away from me. I know what you are, and have said so. And for the sake of our Redeemer, don't even mention what you pretend to believe as a supposed Christian. You aren't a Christian and if you want to be one, I suggest you spend the rest of your life on your knees begging for the mercy of God in all three of his manifestations, especially if your life is quickly running out.
> 
> I have extensive experience of the ways true and fake Christians express themselves, so your suggestion that I re-read your posts is useless. I have read into your posts what is true, whether you like it or not.


Thankfully, my Redeemer Lives!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It does seem that the reverse should be true, but nobody's done it before. Eminent domain is taken to mean only the province of municipalities to take individual's property. Richmond's efforts are going to be well worth watching.


jelun2 said:


> It seems that if municipalities can take property of individual families in order to accommodate business that the reverse should be true, who knows in this day of cocky Kochs.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> So long as it needn't be red or black.


 Of course, you should pick something that appeals to you if you decide to change your avatar. I like Dame's fierce tiger, too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

A HOME REMEDY FOR ALLERGY SORE THROAT

Would any of you kind ladies have something that will relieve this darned sore throat? It has progressed from "hurts when I swallow" to irritated all the time. 
I cannot take many of the OTC type remedies as I have thyroid issues and, frankly, I am too darned lazy to seek out any that might be acceptable. 

Yup, I do know tea and honey... it only soothes for such a short time... 
Thanks in advance. j


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Using eminent domain in the way Richmond proposes to do is a radical departure from all it's previous uses. As I said, if Richmond succeeds, it will set a precedent. I should have said it will set a HUGE, HAIRY precedent with GIANT implications for further use of eminent domain in a new way, hence the President's support for federal opposition to Richmond's plan.

I'm not disappointed in Obama's Presidency either. There are things he's done I don't agree with. I'm sure there are things he'll do that I won't agree with. I can't imagine agreeing or approving of everything any President does.


peacegoddess said:


> The sad part here is that Obama has given the feds the go ahead to oppose the effort.
> 
> I am not disappointed in his presidency, (because I had no expectations) I am offened by his policies, like opposing this effort to assist people. but I knew from the beginning he was a centrist and am so glad I do not have to feel I wasted my vote on him.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thankfully, my Redeemer Lives!


I've never denied what I said in my PM to DonnieK. Since he posted it, anyone can read it and form their own opinion. After reading many of his posts to get a sense of what kind of person he is, I saw he has the same frozen religion as you. You've frozen your Redeemer as well as your heart. I see you attacked me in record time, Gollum.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Using eminent domain in the way Richmond proposes to do is a radical departure from all it's previous uses. As I said, if Richmond succeeds, it will set a precedent. I should have said it will set a HUGE, HAIRY precedent with GIANT implications for further use of eminent domain in a new way, hence the President's support for federal opposition to Richmond's plan.
> 
> I'm not disappointed in Obama's Presidency either. There are things he's done I don't agree with. I'm sure there are things he'll do that I won't agree with. I can't imagine agreeing or approving of everything any President does.


I am no more disappointed in Barrack Obama's presidency than in any other and less than many. 
Look what he has had to work with. 
Nancy Pelosi has been a trooper, hasn't she?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - never mentioned anyone but you. You mention your religion, accept and receive prayers, bless others and then blame your religious beliefs. Meanwhile you regularly condemn others.
> 
> Within minutes or hours of you stating you are a Christian on one thread, you immediately condemned Christianity (your religion) and agreed and praised a man's words (Russell) about why he isn't a Christian on another thread (this one).
> 
> ...


KPG
you just cannot get way from hatred, can you. You and Truth are ions apart and Soul and Heart have left you long ago. Just an empty shell present. It is folks like you who entice others to turn away from Religion. Speak of mockery with you always Bible in hand and poison on your tongue. Wonder which part of your Bible has made you so bitter.


----------



## miatalover66 (Jun 14, 2013)

So sorry about your brother, sending comforting thoughts your way. As for the other unpleasant entries, just skip over, that's what I am doing. They can try to fuel a fire but I can just as easily put it out.



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Shayfaye. Thankfully one person's unpleasantness hasn't been enough to lesson the comfort I take from such an outpouring of warmth and support. Up to now I've been pretty tight-lipped about Tim's story, but in the last few days the tension and stress I've been experiencing became too much for me to deal with by myself. That's one of the terrible things about a crisis involving multiple family members--we don't want to burden those we're closest to with our anguish as they're experiencing the very same emotions themselves. Thank God for support groups and sites like these.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I must have missed something in the 93000 times I have seen it. 
Other than saying I will report you to admin. which someone did to me my second day back, I don't see what the big deal is supposed to be. 
Where is the threat?



MaidInBedlam said:


> I've never denied what I said in my PM to DonnieK. Since he posted it, anyone can read it and form their own opinion. After reading many of his posts to get a sense of what kind of person he is, I saw he has the same frozen religion as you. You've frozen your Redeemer as well as your heart. I see you attacked me in record time, Gollum.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Pelosi sure has been a trooper. I'm proud to say I'm a Californian, just like her.


jelun2 said:


> I am no more disappointed in Barrack Obama's presidency than in any other and less than many.
> Look what he has had to work with.
> Nancy Pelosi has been a trooper, hasn't she?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> I am no more disappointed in Barrack Obama's presidency than in any other and less than many.
> Look what he has had to work with.
> Nancy Pelosi has been a trooper, hasn't she?


jelun2
can we recall ANY President having had to deal with so many enormous problems as President Obama and then have to deal with it with NO help from the GOP? 
2 idiotic Wars would have been more than enough but then there are many other monstrous problems.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Pelosi sure has been a trooper. I'm proud to say I'm a Californian, just like her.


MaidInBedlam
How lucky we Democrats are to have a number of intelligent ad strong women in our midst. No Clowns like Bachmann. Boehner sure learned nothing from Nancy Pelosi even though he wanted the Speaker's job for a long time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> I must have missed something in the 93000 times I have seen it.
> Other than saying I will report you to admin. which someone did to me my second day back, I don't see what the big deal is supposed to be.
> Where is the threat?


I chewed real hard on DonnieK because he is the same kind of religious hypocrite Gollum (KPG) is. There are always some people who live to make a big deal out of anything they possibly can. D reported me to Admin and posted the reply he got, which was to ignore me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yup, I saw that as well. 
Stupidity reigns.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I chewed real hard on DonnieK because he is the same kind of religious hypocrite Gollum (KPG) is. There are always some people whi live to make a big deal out of anything they possibly can. D reported me to Admin and posted the reply he got, which was to ignore me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> KPG
> you just cannot get way from hatred, can you. You and Truth are ions apart and Soul and Heart have left you long ago. Just an empty shell present. It is folks like you who entice others to turn away from Religion. Speak of mockery with you always Bible in hand and poison on your tongue. Wonder which part of your Bible has made you so bitter.


Right on the money, Huck. I can't imagine what it must be like to live so far from Truth and to use religion and the Bible as weapons. I think it's time to call a spade a spade. Let's just call KPG and her so-called Christian buddies Gollum. They're all the same anyway.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Right on the money, Huck. I can't imagine what it must be like to live so far from Truth and to use religion and the Bible as weapons. I think it's time to call a spade a spade. Let's just call KPG and her so-called Christian buddies Gollum. They're all the same anyway.


Isn't "golem" a bogey-man type of thing in Jewish writing, too? Maybe that's where the word came from originally.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe we could give Susan a little humorous support by changing our avatars to pictures of ladies in hats. It's a little thing. It's a little silly, too. Sometimes, in the midst of tragedy, someone can use a little sillyness.
> 
> I googled "pictures of women's hats" and found my new avatar in mere moments. Susan, I hope you like it. I dearly hope you can spend as much time as possible with your brother.


Thanks, Maid--I do the love the hats, and you're 100% correct about humor being at least a temporary release in a grim situation.

Tim has discovered that too...he has some very close friends who reacted to his diagnosis with all the shock and horror one can imagine--when he'd spoken to them over the phone and their fear and anguish was almost palatable. He knew the first face-to-face meeting was going to be rough, so when he heard their step at the front door he slapped a Bozo-the-clown-type wig on his head. They entered, did a shocked double take...then burst out laughing!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> And we love you too. Hang in there.


Dame, I think your avatar is Richard Parker. I watched Life of Pi before I fell asleep last night.


----------



## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

midwegian said:


> damemary said:
> 
> 
> > OMG. Susan, I'm so sorry KPG is such an insufferable idiot.
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

miatalover66 said:


> So sorry about your brother, sending comforting thoughts your way. As for the other unpleasant entries, just skip over, that's what I am doing. They can try to fuel a fire but I can just as easily put it out.


Thanks, Mia. You're right, of course--it's easy enough to bypass the mean comments from the one and frankly, I find I don't care much anyway. When one's life has been rocked to the foundations, the whine of an angry mosquito seems pitifully insignificant.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Isn't "golem" a bogey-man type of thing in Jewish writing, too? Maybe that's where the word came from originally.


Maybe. I'm referring to a specific character in J. R. R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings who is called Gollum because he makes a sound like that in his throat. He's a slimey little rat sort of creature who spent a long time living on an island in a dark lake far underground and possessed the Ring that Tolkien's book is all about for a long time. He spent a lot of time with it, worshipping it and calling it his "precious". I hope I'm not telling you something you already know. If so, sorry about that.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Queenmum said:


> Susan, Dear Heart, I ache for you. Wrap yourself in how much you love your brother and how much he loves you, and be with him. Nothing will make it not hurt, but the love will sustain you. I know because I lost my beloved husband one month ago, and it sustains me through the pain. Remember the last quoted sentence: Keep yourself safe and strong for your brother.
> 
> Love,
> Ann


Queenmum, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how hard this period is for you--a month is such a short time! I remember how it was when I lost my parents and my other brother--each time I felt like I'd been left stranded in a crater on the moon. It can take so long to pick one's way back to the surface! You must be a very strong woman.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Maid--I do the love the hats, and you're 100% correct about humor being at least a temporary release in a grim situation.
> 
> Tim has discovered that too...he has some very close friends who reacted to his diagnosis with all the shock and horror one can imagine--when he'd spoken to them over the phone and their fear and anguish was almost palatable. He knew the first face-to-face meeting was going to be rough, so when he heard their step at the front door he slapped a Bozo-the-clown-type wig on his head. They entered, did a shocked double take...then burst out laughing!


Good for him! It heartens me to hear he did that. I happened to call a very, very dear friend of mine just after he had been diagnosed with a tumor between the lower lobes of his lungs. It was a hard conversation for both of us but we got to spend a great deal of time together in the two years he fought hard and his son and I were the ones who were with him when he died.

I'm sure I've told this story way too many times but will repeat it anyway. When Jack went into hospice he swore there would be a party in his room for every day he was in hospice. He succeeded. He didn't want a memorial because he daid the guest of honor never gets to attend. There was a 43 day party in his room and I was priviledged to spend 30 of them with him. At least 200 people came to visit from all over the country, and a few from foreign lands. The docs and the rest of the staff in his hospice said his room was the happiest on the floor.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe. I'm referring to a specific character in J. R. R. Tolkien's Lord of the Rings who is called Gollum because he makes a sound like that in his throat. He's a slimey little rat sort of creature who spent a long time living on an island in a dark lake far underground and possessed the Ring that Tolkien's book is all about for a long time. He spent a lot of time with it, worshipping it and calling it his "precious". I hope I'm not telling you something you already know. If so, sorry about that.


I actually looked it up on Wikipedia--gollums figure in an amazing amount of literature, some of it ancient. I was surprised--the only one I was familiar with was Tolkien's. Historically a gollum has been an figure formed with mud or clay, then animated by supernatural forces to do the bidding of its master. Inevitably, something goes wrong and the gollum proceeds to run amuck--kind of like Frankenstein's monster, I guess.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm sure I've told this story way too many times but will repeat it anyway. When Jack went into hospice he swore there would be a party in his room for every day he was in hospice. He succeeded. He didn't want a memorial because he daid the guest of honor never gets to attend. There was a 43 day party in his room and I was priviledged to spend 30 of them with him. At least 200 people came to visit from all over the country, and a few from foreign lands. The docs and the rest of the staff in his hospice said his room was the happiest on the floor.


Isn't it odd how often the sufferers of serious illness set the tone for how others react? I've noticed that with Tim as well--he's accepted things with an amazing amount of good will and grit, and it feels natural to match his good-natured cheer when I see him or speak with him over the phone. If he was crying I have no doubt I and others would also being crying--buckets, I'm sure. It's truly amazing how we mirror the moods and attitudes of those around us.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Fantastic explanation of Obama and his policies in clear and concise words:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10151589575091161&set=vb.119170888262710&type=2&theater


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What the City of Richmond is doing is a bold, new way to look at emminent domain. As I understand it there may be some huge pitfalls ahead of them. If they succeed, they will set an important precedent. I live near enough to Richmond to know what the City is up against in a variety of ways. I'm hoping what they're doing will succeed. They deserve it.


As of today's news, they still need a majority on the city council for the ultimate go ahead. There is a real nasty obstructionist (read Chevron backed) on the city council who is leading the opposition.

All cities deserve to have creative thinkers as their politicians to assist in recovery and maintinance of community and families.

Remember West, Texas and Bhopal, India


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I actually looked it up on Wikipedia--gollums figure in an amazing amount of literature, some of it ancient. I was surprised--the only one I was familiar with was Tolkien's. Historically a gollum has been an figure formed with mud or clay, then animated by supernatural forces to do the bidding of its master. Inevitably, something goes wrong and the gollum proceeds to run amuck--kind of like Frankenstein's monster, I guess.


Read Marge Piercy's He, She, and It for a very modern interpretation of the golem. Read it for other reasons too. Great book.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Nope - never mentioned anyone but you. You mention your religion, accept and receive prayers, bless others and then blame your religious beliefs. Meanwhile you regularly condemn others.
> 
> Within minutes or hours of you stating you are a Christian on one thread, you immediately condemned Christianity (your religion) and agreed and praised a man's words (Russell) about why he isn't a Christian on another thread (this one).
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
I see you are still your ugly self. 
Why is it so important for you to focus on People who are suffering?
You must be getting pleasure out of inflicting pain.
A special place in Hell has been reserved for you Cherf.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That stuff is just a son of a gun, isn't it? I made one item with it and never again!



midwegian said:


> One note before turning in... I started a boucle` scarf this evening. I've fought this yarn for over a year, and thanks to the help of you all on KP, I've gotten what I needed to proceed... Larger size bamboo needles and keep it simple.... Thanks for all the thoughtful posts you have shared! Much food for thought and what a nice feeling of community going out over the web! Oh, yeah... bazinga!
> 
> Do not engage...


----------



## Queenmum (Dec 3, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Queenmum, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how hard this period is for you--a month is such a short time! I remember how it was when I lost my parents and my other brother--each time I felt like I'd been left stranded in a crater on the moon. It can take so long to pick one's way back to the surface! You must be a very strong woman.


"Stranded in a crater on the moon." That's it exactly. Thank you for a perfect description.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> As of today's news, they still need a majority on the city council for the ultimate go ahead. There is a real nasty obstructionist (read Chevron backed) on the city council who is leading the opposition.
> 
> All cities deserve to have creative thinkers as their politicians to assist in recovery and maintinance of community and families.
> 
> Remember West, Texas and Bhopal, India


Do you have any idea how approval of the plan would affect the economy, the housing market and the availability of loans in that community and in the future that state? Apparently you do not as evidenced by your stated support. I'm all in favor of creative thinkers but not of ideas that are known to destroy constitutional rights, legal contracts and communities of people.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Queenmum, I'm so sorry for your loss. I can only imagine how hard this period is for you--a month is such a short time! I remember how it was when I lost my parents and my other brother--each time I felt like I'd been left stranded in a crater on the moon. It can take so long to pick one's way back to the surface! You must be a very strong woman.


Susan,

Keeping you and your family in my thoughts. I shall be shining on you all.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Susan,
> 
> Keeping you and your family in my thoughts. I shall be shining on you all.


Thanks, GW! :thumbup:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you have any idea how approval of the plan would affect the economy, the housing market and the availability of loans in that community and in the future that state? Apparently you do not as evidenced by your stated support. I'm all in favor of creative thinkers but not of ideas that are known to destroy constitutional rights, legal contracts and communities of people.


I did not expect we would agree on this, looks like you and President Obama do though.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not expect we would agree on this, looks like you and President Obama do though.


Yes, I do agree with Obama if he believes the city mayor's idea is a not a good one. I don't know what Obama thinks of this issue. I also have no idea why you chose to point out a person with whom I do agree assuming your statement is true. I think for myself and don't follow someone blindly just because I may agree or not to his particular beliefs.

My question was to you, however, as you were the one to bring this concern to my attention by several of your posts.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, I do agree with Obama if he believes the city mayor's idea is a not a good one. I don't know what Obama thinks of this issue. I also have no idea why you chose to point out a person with whom I do agree assuming your statement is true. I think for myself and don't follow someone blindly just because I may agree or not to his particular beliefs.
> 
> My question was to you, however, as you were the one to bring this concern to my attention by several of your posts.


Just as you and I disagree on the mayor's idea, so do various economists and legal scholars.

I am curious though what information you base your opinion that our president is a Muslim?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

KPG One of your posts on FF denim and pearls



The more I learn about Obama, I'd have to agree he is a Muslim and not a Christian as he professes. I do not know enough about the Brotherhood to agree he is a member of them though.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Just as you and I disagree on the mayor's idea, so do various economists and legal scholars.
> 
> I am curious though what information you base your opinion that our president is a Muslim?


Funny, everything I read cited how the policy will fail the county and state, hence why so much opposition to the proposal. Please provide links of those economists and legal scholars who support the proposal.

Do you understand how it will affect the county and community and loans statewide and probably investors through our country if passed?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> KPG One of your posts on FF denim and pearls
> 
> The more I learn about Obama, I'd have to agree he is a Muslim and not a Christian as he professes. I do not know enough about the Brotherhood to agree he is a member of them though.


As you read this quoted post on another thread, so, too, can you read my other posts there and ascertain why I think as I do.

Or better yet, ask your questions on this topic on that thread.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> As you read this quoted post on another thread, so, too, can you read my other posts and ascertain why I think as I do. You'll find my reasons in the same thread where the original post was written.


I saw the youtube that was posted. Lame


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Funny, everything I read cited how the policy will fail the county and state, hence why so much opposition to the proposal. Please provide links of those economists and legal scholars who support the proposal.
> 
> Do you understand how it will affect the county and community and loans statewide?


You are a capable researcher.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I saw the youtube that was posted. Lame


I've never made a Utube video of my beliefs nor posted same. You are lame to judge anyone or me based on what others may say about us as you just have done.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You are a capable researcher.


How obvious. No proof = lies.

You must not be a capable researcher I guess.

Is that the Liberal Point-of-View as this thread is titled?

Make statements, pass them off as the truth, and when challenged, do not and cannot provide any source or facts, change the topic and allow the lies to be forgotten or dismissed.

Got it - thanks for the lesson in Liberalism.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How obvious. No proof = lies.
> 
> You must not be a capable researcher I guess.
> 
> ...


And then we go to the game of you not approving of my sources because they are progressives. I am comfortable with you thinking me a liar.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've never made a Utube video of my beliefs nor posted same. You are lame to judge anyone or me based on what others may say about us as you just have done.


I did not say that you made the youtube video. The youtube video was lame. I did not say you were lame. If you took it that way then I am not responsible for your reaction.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> And then we go to the game of you not approving of my sources because they are progressives. I am comfortable with you thinking me a liar.


I've not mentioned your sources other than asking for them. I would have read them and decided for myself whether or not they are credible.

Instead, I'll go ahead and assume there are no sources and hence your opinion only which is not credible.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I've not mentioned your sources other than asking for them. I would have read them and decided for myself whether or not they are credible.
> 
> Instead, I'll go ahead and assume there are no sources and hence your opinion only which is not credible.


Ok.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not say that you made the youtube video. The youtube video was lame. I did not say you were lame. If you took it that way then I am not responsible for your reaction.


Your response to me after I told you where you could read my opinions already posted, was to the effect of 'the video you posted was lame.' BTW: the video you referenced has zero to do with the topic you asked me about.

You'd be best to do more comprehensive reading exercises before trying to engage others in another discussion. Of course, in my opinion.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I did not say that you made the youtube video. The youtube video was lame. I did not say you were lame. If you took it that way then I am not responsible for your reaction.


peacegoddess
Her unending anger always gets in the way of proper comprehension. I suspect a constant battle at home which carries over to here. What a lousy existence that is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks. I love it. Such a fitting switch from regal, aloof tiger to grouchy tiger. I'll still look for a hat for susan.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Of course, you should pick something that appeals to you if you decide to change your avatar. I like Dame's fierce tiger, too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hate to suggest it, but you may want to have the doctor take a look. Hugs.



jelun2 said:


> A HOME REMEDY FOR ALLERGY SORE THROAT
> 
> Would any of you kind ladies have something that will relieve this darned sore throat? It has progressed from "hurts when I swallow" to irritated all the time.
> I cannot take many of the OTC type remedies as I have thyroid issues and, frankly, I am too darned lazy to seek out any that might be acceptable.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In the mind of a deranged lunatic?



jelun2 said:


> I must have missed something in the 93000 times I have seen it.
> Other than saying I will report you to admin. which someone did to me my second day back, I don't see what the big deal is supposed to be.
> Where is the threat?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> can we recall ANY President having had to deal with so many enormous problems as President Obama and then have to deal with it with NO help from the GOP?
> 2 idiotic Wars would have been more than enough but then there are many other monstrous problems.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good fit, no?



alcameron said:


> Dame, I think your avatar is Richard Parker. I watched Life of Pi before I fell asleep last night.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your response to me after I told you where you could read my opinions already posted, was to the effect of 'the video you posted was lame.' BTW: the video you referenced has zero to do with the topic you asked me about.
> 
> You'd be best to do more comprehensive reading exercises before trying to engage others in another discussion. Of course, in my opinion.


What we have are not discussions they are verbal sparring that demonstrates how little respect we have for one another.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What we have are not discussions they are verbal sparring that demonstrates how little respect we have for one another.


Your call. I answered your question, asked one of you along with a request for your sources. Instead of responding and providing your sources, you asked about another topic completely and refused to cite sources or discuss the first topic further. Your loss and inability to keep a discussion going, not mine.

Oh, well. I'm sure you'll engage your next victim soon and treat them much in the same way. I earn my respect. I suggest you do the same.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your call. I answered your question, asked one of you along with a request for your sources. Instead of responding and providing your sources, you asked about another topic completely and refused to cite sources or discuss the first topic further. Your loss and inability to keep a discussion going, not mine.
> 
> Oh, well. I'm sure you'll engage your next victim soon and treat them much in the same way. I earn my respect. I suggest you do the same.


You have not earned mine. From various of your posts to and about me, you do not respect me either.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Is that like look up the research you want about emminent domain your own lazy self?



knitpresentgifts said:


> As you read this quoted post on another thread, so, too, can you read my other posts there and ascertain why I think as I do.
> 
> Or better yet, ask your questions on this topic on that thread.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

They will make me get some prescription that is at the top tier and barely help. LOL, been there, done that.



damemary said:


> I hate to suggest it, but you may want to have the doctor take a look. Hugs.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

My understanding is that when a municipality seizes property a fair market value is assessed. I am not sure why that would negatively impact on the community.

As I double check my facts...
http://www.eminentdomainlaw.net/handbook3_3.php



peacegoddess said:


> I did not expect we would agree on this, looks like you and President Obama do though.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Your fierce tiger was a great avatar.. We all need a fierce tiger sometimes. Your hat choice is a real wowzer! Those odd British hats are really something else, and ever so popular with those who can afford them.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> Her unending anger always gets in the way of proper comprehension. I suspect a constant battle at home which carries over to here. What a lousy existence that is.


The good part is that we can go back to ignoring Gollum and her buddies and talk about important things like hats. LOL. Dig your hat, too.:thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess and jelun2

I love your Avatars. Both pieces of fine Art


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

OMG!! That hat is out of this world. I am humbled by your amazing choice. :mrgreen:: -D Your hat research shows no sign of laziness.


jelun2 said:


> Is that like look up the research you want about emminent domain your own lazy self?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

However, the reason I extended my stay was to share this, it gave me a giggle. At least they had plenty of water for all, I guess.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/conservative-groups-host-justice-benghazi-rally-only-handful-protestors-show?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+opposingviews%2Fmain+%28Opposing+Views+-+Issues%2C+Experts%2C+Answers%29&flv=1#

Conservative Groups Host 'Justice for Benghazi' Rally; Only a Handful of Protestors Show Up

.By Emily Smith, Thu, September 12, 2013

A handful of conservative protestors attended Capitol Hill Wednesday during a Justice for Benghazi rally, though disappointed organizers expected as many as 5,000 people.

Patriots4America and Special Operations Speak were two groups that urged GOP leadership to investigate further into the Sept. 11, 2012 attack on Benghazi, which they believe was handled poorly by the Obama administration.

Sharron Angle, former Tea Party-backed GOP candidate for U.S. Senate in Nevada, and Rob Maness, current GOP Senate candidate in Louisiana, also attended the event.

Angle and Maness will both play a role in further investigations into Benghazi, though those rules have yet to be defined.

Both groups hope that House Speaker John Boehner, especially, will continue an investigation.

SOS recently launched a petition and billboard campaign pressuring Boehner to act.

Boehners stonewalling is helping Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Susan Rice and the rest of Obamas corrupt administration get away with the deadliest scandal in American history, an SOS email promoting the petition read.

Boehner, however, has refused to act despite multiple calls for action from his own party to create a special investigative committee.

H. Michael Hervey, chairman of Conservative Party USA, said the Benghazi affair had never been cleared up, and that the group seeks a kind of closure.

Sources: The Huffington Post, Think Progress

And yes, I know that the URL is ridiculous, apparently, we are no longer allowed to use TinyURL. :roll:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> My understanding is that when a municipality seizes property a fair market value is assessed. I am not sure why that would negatively impact on the community.
> 
> As I double check my facts...
> http://www.eminentdomainlaw.net/handbook3_3.php


There are varying opinions on this issue. Traditionalists are against its use in this manner. From what I have read on both sides, success will come down to if it is allowed to go forward and if they do not run into massive law suits that would derail it from its outset.

Bill Moyers did an article on it, among others on both sides.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

TY. TY. I hope that Susan enjoys them.



Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess and jelun2
> 
> I love your Avatars. Both pieces of fine Art


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Well, yeah, the lawsuits would impact negatively on the economic issue. I was only commenting on the actual effect on the community of the action. It would seem to be nil, at least to the negative.



peacegoddess said:


> There are varying opinions on this issue. Traditionalists are against its use in this manner. From what I have read on both sides, success will come down to if it is allowed to go forward and if they do not run into massive law suits that would derail it from its outset.
> 
> Bill Moyers did an article on it, among others on both sides.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> Well, yeah, the lawsuits would impact negatively on the economic issue. I was only commenting on the actual effect on the community of the action. It would seem to be nil, at least to the negative.


The residents of the houses bought stay in their homes, continue working, living, and paying taxes in the community as opposed to moving away. that sounds like a real plus for the community. Also, generally speaking, homeowners are more involved in their communities than are renters.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> What we have are not discussions they are verbal sparring that demonstrates how little respect we have for one another.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Atta Girl.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your call. I answered your question, asked one of you along with a request for your sources. Instead of responding and providing your sources, you asked about another topic completely and refused to cite sources or discuss the first topic further. Your loss and inability to keep a discussion going, not mine.
> 
> Oh, well. I'm sure you'll engage your next victim soon and treat them much in the same way. I earn my respect. I suggest you do the same.


See avatar. It's all for you except the hearts. I'm back on the wagon. Couldn't resist.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I just worry about strep throat.



jelun2 said:


> They will make me get some prescription that is at the top tier and barely help. LOL, been there, done that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember West Texas.



jelun2 said:


> However, the reason I extended my stay was to share this, it gave me a giggle. At least they had plenty of water for all, I guess.
> 
> http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/conservative-groups-host-justice-benghazi-rally-only-handful-protestors-show?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+opposingviews%2Fmain+%28Opposing+Views+-+Issues%2C+Experts%2C+Answers%29&flv=1#
> 
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Your fierce tiger was a great avatar.. We all need a fierce tiger sometimes. Your hat choice is a real wowzer! Those odd British hats are really something else, and ever so popular with those who can afford them.


MaidInBedlam
I buy hats from a local Milliner as well as through the VICTORIA and VICTORIAN TRADING CO. Catalogues. Some are quite affordable. Sometimes I buy the simplest one and embellish it according to the attire I wear with it. I love to visit some of the Churches frequented primarily by black People. Gorgeous Hats can be seen. I am truly a hat Gal. None too small and none too big. Just not always comfortable while driving.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Truthfully, I never got used to wearing hats.



Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I buy hats from a local Milliner as well as through the VICTORIA and VICTORIAN TRADING CO. Catalogues. Some are quite affordable. Sometimes I buy the simplest one and embellish it according to the attire I wear with it. I love to visit some of the Churches frequented primarily by black People. Gorgeous Hats can be seen. I am truly a hat Gal. None too small and none too big. Just not always comfortable while driving.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I just worry about strep throat.


damemary
I gargle with Salt Water whenever I feel a sore throat coming on.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Truthfully, I never got used to wearing hats.


damemary
I started very early wearing hats. Veils and all. Still have some veiled ones and wear them but the Veil over the top now. Used to have to wear one to Church. Now that I found to be ridiculous - that HAVE TO part I mean. Crazy customs Men invented. Never saw Jesus with a Hat nor the many Women in his Life.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We had to wear hats to church when I was a kid. Mantillas, veils, I never felt right in it. Guess I ditched it as soon as I could. I like a turned up brim with a ribbon band or something. So uncomfortable in a car or chair....and it gives you such a cute hairdo underneath. Fugget about it.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I started very early wearing hats. Veils and all. Still have some veiled ones and wear them but the Veil over the top now. Used to have to wear one to Church. Now that I found to be ridiculous - that HAVE TO part I mean. Crazy customs Men invented. Never saw Jesus with a Hat nor the many Women in his Life.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Love all of the quirky hats, ladies!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Your response to me after I told you where you could read my opinions already posted, was to the effect of 'the video you posted was lame.' BTW: the video you referenced has zero to do with the topic you asked me about.
> 
> You'd be best to do more comprehensive reading exercises before trying to engage others in another discussion. Of course, in my opinion.


pffffftttt!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am tired of the flatus KPG leaves behind when she posts in here. Has she no pride? 
Again, she spreads all over the site how "Bad" we are ,but lo and behold here she is again!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am tired of the flatus KPG leaves behind when she posts in here. Has she no pride?
> Again, she spreads all over the site how "Bad" we are ,but lo and behold here she is again!


Bratty Patty
she is totally addicted to us and very lonely. Her friends on D&P are too mild for her. She cannot get nasty with them so she doubles up here and elsewhere. Conflict is her regular diet. Just wonder who wins at home. My guess is it is not her and that angers her and she compensates for it here.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Bratty Patty
Your Hat I want. Got the outfit to go with it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> Your Hat I want. Got the outfit to go with it.


It's all yours, Huck!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The only hat I wear is a black fedora.



damemary said:


> We had to wear hats to church when I was a kid. Mantillas, veils, I never felt right in it. Guess I ditched it as soon as I could. I like a turned up brim with a ribbon band or something. So uncomfortable in a car or chair....and it gives you such a cute hairdo underneath. Fugget about it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

OMG, that hat is SO outrageous!

I am sick of a whole lot of them, I came pretty darned close to reporting that self identified crazy on the "secrets" thread tonight. 
The charges she is making are really sick. Then my compassionate side kicks in and think about what it would mean to some of these women if they were removed from the site.



BrattyPatty said:


> I am tired of the flatus KPG leaves behind when she posts in here. Has she no pride?
> Again, she spreads all over the site how "Bad" we are ,but lo and behold here she is again!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> OMG, that hat is SO outrageous!
> 
> I am sick of a whole lot of them, I came pretty darned close to reporting that self identified crazy on the "secrets" thread tonight.
> The charges she is making are really sick. Then my compassionate side kicks in and think about what it would mean to some of these women if they were removed from the site.


Maybe it would open their eyes ,jelun.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I didn't know they were quirky. Now I like them even better. REAL Tea Party.



BrattyPatty said:


> Love all of the quirky hats, ladies!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's my 'guess' too, Huck.



Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> she is totally addicted to us and very lonely. Her friends on D&P are too mild for her. She cannot get nasty with them so she doubles up here and elsewhere. Conflict is her regular diet. Just wonder who wins at home. My guess is it is not her and that angers her and she compensates for it here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the Admin is too busy with 101,000 users to bother to try to interfere.



jelun2 said:


> OMG, that hat is SO outrageous!
> 
> I am sick of a whole lot of them, I came pretty darned close to reporting that self identified crazy on the "secrets" thread tonight.
> The charges she is making are really sick. Then my compassionate side kicks in and think about what it would mean to some of these women if they were removed from the site.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

LOL, there it is that hat!

Yes, lions and tigers and bears, oh my!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Your fierce tiger was a great avatar.. We all need a fierce tiger sometimes. Your hat choice is a real wowzer! Those odd British hats are really something else, and ever so popular with those who can afford them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

That could be, the message I got was "watch your language". 
That man, DonnieK received a very terse message indicated to ignore the other. 
I am not sure what the story is, when I was checking out the management of the site when it first openned it turned out to be a "front" claiming to be a publishing company that was nonexistent. 
I read somewhere that it changed hands. I wonder if they just altered some info.



damemary said:


> I think the Admin is too busy with 101,000 users to bother to try to interfere.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is a winner hat. Jelun is Queen for the Day. She will pass on her title when she determines someone has earned it. Hail Queen Jelun in the marvelous chapeau.

Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!



jelun2 said:


> LOL, there it is that hat!
> 
> Yes, lions and tigers and bears, oh my!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting. Arte Johnson. Keep digging.



jelun2 said:


> That could be, the message I got was "watch your language".
> That man, DonnieK received a very terse message indicated to ignore the other.
> I am not sure what the story is, when I was checking out the management of the site when it first openned it turned out to be a "front" claiming to be a publishing company that was nonexistent.
> I read somewhere that it changed hands. I wonder if they just altered some info.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Jelun2, I second seeing a doc for the "better safe than sorry" reason. Your doc can suggest you take a prescription medication, but you don't have to accept it unless you want to take it. Meanwhile, I find Fisherman's Friend Coughdrops and/or Altoids helpful. Gargling with hot salt water is helpful when you hava an infection, and might help you even if you don't have one. Mullien tea is a good remedy fpr a cough, and you can add peppermint to if so there's some flavor.

A friend of mine had dreadful allergies and was cured by acupuncture. That might be good for you since, if you don't have allergies to start with, you probably won't get a sore throat from them.

The above is all anecdotal and brought to you by Mother MIB , one of the many facets of my personality. :thumbup: :-D Have fun gargling and googling.:-D


damemary said:


> I hate to suggest it, but you may want to have the doctor take a look. Hugs.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
Now that one fit in at the Derby. Love it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> The only hat I wear is a black fedora.


jelun2
Now that is a staple.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I remember when we had to dress up to go just about anywhere, like the doc, the dentist, shopping, visiting, lunching, etc. I am eternally grateful that, as a youthful hippy living away from home, I could ditch all that. I've come to think of dressing up as putting on a costume. If I go out to eat, it is guaranteed that I will spill something down the front of what I'm wearing as soon as is humanly possible, sigh. 


damemary said:


> We had to wear hats to church when I was a kid. Mantillas, veils, I never felt right in it. Guess I ditched it as soon as I could. I like a turned up brim with a ribbon band or something. So uncomfortable in a car or chair....and it gives you such a cute hairdo underneath. Fugget about it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

IMHO, Gollum and the majority of her buddies seem to be in the same situation. Even if they have lots of family and friends around, and use religion as a consolation, there's something missing that leaves them envious and lonely. We don't know what to do about it, and the best response to these unfortunate people is to ignore them. Whatever their personal void is, they're the only ones who can find what they need to fill it. Much as I dislike stumbling over Gollum and friends when they visit this topic, at heart I pity them.


Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> she is totally addicted to us and very lonely. Her friends on D&P are too mild for her. She cannot get nasty with them so she doubles up here and elsewhere. Conflict is her regular diet. Just wonder who wins at home. My guess is it is not her and that angers her and she compensates for it here.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam
I like your Royal Hats display. It is fun to have fun.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Bratty, I would actually get dressed up if I had the hat you're using for your avatar. It's beautiful. I was sick of Princess Beatrice's hat before I changed my avatar. Now I have an acceptable (to me) Princess Beatrice hat, but I'll be googling women's hats for something wonderful.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As Reverend Narcissus of Oakland, CA says "It's nice to be nice." Thiis is a good companion aphorism to go along with "iI is fun to have fun."


Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I like your Royal Hats display. It is fun to have fun.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the tips, Mom. Great joyful hat on Beatrice.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Jelun2, I second seeing a doc for the "better safe than sorry" reason. Your doc can suggest you take a prescription medication, but you don't have to accept it unless you want to take it. Meanwhile, I find Fisherman's Friend Coughdrops and/or Altoids helpful. Gargling with hot salt water is helpful when you hava an infection, and might help you even if you don't have one. Mullien tea is a good remedy fpr a cough, and you can add peppermint to if so there's some flavor.
> 
> A friend of mine had dreadful allergies and was cured by acupuncture. That might be good for you since, if you don't have allergies to start with, you probably won't get a sore throat from them.
> 
> The above is all anecdotal and brought to you by Mother MIB , one of the many facets of my personality. :thumbup: :-D Have fun gargling and googling.:-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're the same era and degree of clumsiness. Also avoidance of formality.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I remember when we had to dress up to go just about anywhere, like the doc, the dentist, shopping, visiting, lunching, etc. I am eternally grateful that, as a youthful hippy living away from home, I could ditch all that. I've come to think of dressing up as putting on a costume. If I go out to eat, it is guaranteed that I will spill something down the front of what I'm wearing as soon as is humanly possible, sigh.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Hello Friends.
All is under wraps. Trucks on the way to the new Home.
Will see how Island living feels.
I am staying in a Hotel until my things are in place.
Will be looking in now and then.
Wish you an exiting day.
Ingried


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> We're the same era and degree of clumsiness. Also avoidance of formality.


The only thing I rarely have done, and only when I was a LOT younger, is leave the house without a bra. I can't bear to jiggle in public.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

You can't make this stuff up. The GOP is collapsing in upon itself and they are doing it all by themselves.

THURSDAY, SEP 12, 2013 02:07 PM CDT
Ted Cruzs war on the GOP accelerates
Texas senator is the inheritor of the Jesse Helms scorched-earth legacy -- and leading his party's ongoing collapse
BY BRIAN BEUTLER SALON.com
102 130 0 
more

TOPICS: JESSE HELMS, TED CRUZ, OBAMACARE, AFFORDABLE CARE ACT, GOVERNMENT SHUTDOWN, MIKE LEE, THE NEW REPUBLIC, KIM JONG-IL, POLITICS NEWS

Ted Cruz, Jesse Helms (Credit: AP/David J. Phillip/Reuters)
If youve been reading this space, you know that the Republican Party has a huge mess on its hands thanks to the rights kamikaze-like Obamacare strategy.

While that mess spread in the House yesterday, Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, was busy giving the Heritage Foundations annual Helms lecture, named in honor of the unrepentant racist Sen. Jesse Helms, R-N.C., who left Congress in 2003 and died in 2008.

The willingness to say all those crazy things is a rare, rare characteristic in this town, and you know what? Its every bit as true now as it was then, Cruz said. We need a hundred more like Jesse Helms in the U.S. Senate.

These two facts might seem disconnected, but theyre actually tightly linked. The latter is a symptom of the same problem that caused the former.

If you think theres no connection between the fact that Ted Cruz admires Jesse Helms, and that Cruz is also waging war against the GOP establishment from the right, you dont know much about Ted Cruz or Jesse Helms.

Some of the crazy things Helms said underscored the fact that he was a rube. In January 1995, according to the New Republic, the then-newly crowned chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee denounced the malfeasance of North Korean President Kim Jong Il by referring to him as Kim Jong Two  [H]is staffers flinched in embarrassment. In scripting Helmss statements for the following day, they helpfully spelled the North Korean leaders name phonetically: Kim Jong Ill. Imagine their chagrin when it came time for Helms to testify. If this is not a treaty and it is not an executive agreement, what the heck is it?We are entitled to know the nature of President Clintons commitment to North Korean dictator Kim Jong the Third.

But Helms was also a practitioner of the same sorts of scorched-earth political and procedural tactics that have marked Cruzs brief tenure in the Senate. Cruz is much, much smarter and more sophisticated than Helms, but in many key ways hes the inheritor of Helms legacy.

When the conservative movement was ascendant the right could deploy those tactics against minorities, the poor, liberal elites, whomever else they wanted. In decline, it deploys them inward.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

From the LATimes, 1993
More on Jesse Helms, Hero of Teddy-Boy Cruz
Helms Sings a Song of 'Dixie'; Moseley-Braun Looks Away

WASHINGTON  The way Sen. Carol Moseley-Braun relates the story, Sen. Jesse Helms entered the Senate elevator, saw her, and began singing, "I wish I was in the land of cotton. . . . "

Helms, a Republican from North Carolina, recalled his brief encounter with the Senate's only black member differently and described it as "a good-natured exchange," an aide said.

Moseley-Braun, a Democrat from Illinois, told the story at the National Urban League annual dinner Wednesday night, about two weeks after another tangle with Helms in which she defeated his move to renew a patent on the Confederate flag insignia.

The incident happened Tuesday, she said. When Helms stepped into the elevator, "he saw me standing there, and he started to sing, 'I wish I was in the land of cotton . . . ' And he looked at Sen. Hatch and said, 'I'm going to make her cry. I'm going to sing 'Dixie' until she cries.'

"And I looked at him and said, 'Sen. Helms, your singing would make me cry if you sang 'Rock of Ages,' " Moseley-Braun said.

Her press secretary, Lynnette Moten, who attended the dinner and heard the speech, confirmed a Washington Post account of the speech. "She relayed a story," Moten said. "It displays something about her, something about him and it speaks for itself."

Helms' press aide Eric Lundgren said, "I'm not sure that report's entirely correct," referring to Moseley-Braun's recollection of the exchange. But Lundgren would not say specifically how Helms' recollection differed.

Last month, Moseley-Braun successfully led a fight on the Senate floor to defeat an amendment by Helms to renew the United Daughters of the Confederacy's patent on the Confederate flag insignia.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

More of the Young Guns of the Republican Party: Part Two
1
BY PATRICK PITTSIN AMERICAS · EUROPE · UNITED STATES  10 AUG, 2013
The continuation of our eagerly anticipated series on the future of the Republican Party. (Read Part one here)


Illustration by L Jonathan Mo for The Typewriter

Chris Christie

Ironically the Republican who many see as being responsible for Obamas re-election in 2012, is perhaps in the best position out of our young guns to win in 2016. Chris Christie, governor of the state of New Jersey, epitomizes the phrase man of the people. He brings a potent combination brewed with his ability to raise massive campaign funds and all the while maintain his Joe the plumber likability factor to the GOP platform.

Yet Governor Christie, who has worked fiscal miracles in New Jersey, has an added boost on every other political opponent in the arena: his humanity. In October of 2012, superstorm Sandy devastated north-eastern United States, causing an estimated $65 billion in damages and leaving millions of people without power or shelter for weeks on end. Days before the election, Governor Christie did something remarkable in this day and age of polarized politics: he thanked President Obama for his effective and rapid mobilisation of the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA).

A Republican heavyweight offering thanks and support to a Democrat hours before the polls open in a heavily contested election is almost sounds unheard of. Christie is a human first, and a politician second; coupled with his affability, it is no surprise Andrew Davis at PolicyMic described him as the only potential Republican presidential candidate with the crucial combination of big donor backing, establishment clout, and broad popular support necessary for securing the White House in 2016&#8242;. With a 52% national approval rating, Chris Christie could prove to be one of the most popular contestants standing in the 2016 elections.

Marco Rubio

The Latin American Poster boy of the GOP, has seen his star shine brighter and brighter over the past few years and is seen by many as a future potential Vice Presidential nominee on the election ticket.

This unabashed effort to woo Latino voters is symptomatic of the GOPs attempt to rebrand the party as of the people. For many, Marco Rubio symbolises the America of today and the new Republican Party. This Cuban  American Senator for Florida won a surprising three way contest for his seat in 2010; a race he was initially trailing far behind in. Rubio being another man of the Tea Party, unlike Ryan, will be around for another three years until he faces re-election.

Together with Ryan, they represent the far right wing element of the Republicans; if that elements particular conservative ideology prevails, it will mean continued prominence for this young gun. Rest assured, there wont be any calls for Rubios birth certificate to be prove his US birth any time soon. Elected to the House of Representatives at 28, promising seems to be an understatement. Whilst the Democrats are often said to have a problem attracting white men, the GOP faces problems attracting ethnic minorities and appealing to more varied social groups.

Pro life, pro Patriot, pro Israel and pro oil, he is the standard Tea Party Republican package. What makes him different, though, and a potential future leader is his oratory and race. Having come at a time where his party are looking for a way to penetrate the Latino vote, he is positioning himself as the Hispanic Republican Obama without being obvious about it. Perhaps not as extreme in some issues such as Ryan, the party is desperate to shake of its white homogenous image.

Therefore, there is no doubt that Rubio will remain a leading voice in the Republican camp. In my ever so humble opinion, the GOP would be better off with George P Bush - if you can get past his surname of course.

Note: This is co-written by Patrick Pitts and Nadeem Shad





Email


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Chris Christie on Education


NJ AFL-CIO claims Chris Christie cut education funding by $1.6B while giving out $2B in corporate tax breaks


New Jersey State AFL-CIO on Tuesday, April 30th, 2013 in a Facebook page post

The attack ad game for New Jerseys gubernatorial contest in November has a new player.

Enter the state AFL-CIO, which has a meme on its Facebook page that links Gov. Chris Christie to big business and paints him as an enemy of education. A meme is an idea or concept shared via social media.

The meme declares, "New Jersey's governor cut $1.6 billion from public education while handing out $2.1 billion in corporate tax breaks, more than the entire previous decade," with a prominent picture of a dazed-looking Christie in the middle.

The picture may not be the most flattering, but the claims in it are hard facts: New Jerseys governor did cut education by a significant amount, and his actions have resulted in tax break largesse for businesses.

Lets begin by reviewing the education funding claim.

Christie cut education funding, but not by $1.6 billion.

The governor made two cuts to education in 2010 totaling about $1 billion to help close significant budget gaps. The New Jersey Education Law Center, a Newark-based school advocacy group, sued, claiming the cuts violated the law for giving aid to school districts, and put at-risk and poor students at an increased disadvantage.

Ultimately, a judge agreed with the Education Law Centers challenge. The judge also found that New Jersey would have needed $1.6 billion to fully fund education in New Jersey in accordance with the states funding law, and ordered the state to spend an additional $500 million on public education in poor districts the next year.

Bottom line? Christies cuts totaled $1 billion.

Next, lets review the claim about corporate tax breaks.

New Jersey Policy Perspective, a liberal think tank, released a report in April that the state has given $2.1 billion in tax breaks and grants to companies during the past three years that Christies been in office. That exceeds the $1.2 billion in corporate tax breaks given the entire previous decade, according to figures from the state Economic Development Authority.

At the time of the reports release, Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak said the group is "simply not credible," and that figures from the EDA show that incentives have created more than 100,000 jobs since 1996.

What Drewniak didnt do, however, was question the accuracy of the numbers in the report.

Its also worth noting that a month before the report came out, Christie told a commercial real estate group that his administration was on target to deliver $2.3 billion in business tax breaks and supports legislation reauthorizing corporate incentives.

NJPP used EDA numbers for its study, Deputy Director Jon Whiten said in an e-mail..

Neither Drewniak nor Christie spokesman Kevin Roberts responded to requests for comment.

Our ruling

A meme on the state AFL-CIO Facebook page claims, "New Jersey's governor cut $1.6 billion from public education while handing out $2.1 billion in corporate tax breaks, more than the entire previous decade."

Christie actually cut $1 billion in state aid from education, not $1.6 billion.

As for corporate tax breaks, Christie himself has said his administration is on target to deliver $2.3 billion in benefits for business  and thats nearly double what was handed out in tax breaks in the decade before he took office.

We rate the memes claim Mostly True.

To comment on this story, go to NJ.com.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Thanks, guys ( a NE thing for those of you don't know) 
I actually have quite a lot of trouble with allergies, the spring time seems to just be pollen to the eyes related. 
I had spent several years living away from nature so when I moved to be close to my grandbaby this discomfort came as a shock. 
He is well worth it!
I do think that it is getting better after just a few days, here's hoping...



MaidInBedlam said:


> Jelun2, I second seeing a doc for the "better safe than sorry" reason. Your doc can suggest you take a prescription medication, but you don't have to accept it unless you want to take it. Meanwhile, I find Fisherman's Friend Coughdrops and/or Altoids helpful. Gargling with hot salt water is helpful when you hava an infection, and might help you even if you don't have one. Mullien tea is a good remedy fpr a cough, and you can add peppermint to if so there's some flavor.
> 
> A friend of mine had dreadful allergies and was cured by acupuncture. That might be good for you since, if you don't have allergies to start with, you probably won't get a sore throat from them.
> 
> The above is all anecdotal and brought to you by Mother MIB , one of the many facets of my personality. :thumbup: :-D Have fun gargling and googling.:-D


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Ingried

I was away when this thread was started and didn't know about it until today. I started on page 1 and got all the way to page 5 when the insults began, and for some unknown reason you were the target. Sorry about that. My parents were immigrants but never had to put up with the abuse I just saw directed at you. I apologize on behalf of the decent people of this country.


Ingried said:


> damemary
> Being an Immigrant I run into all sorts of situtations with People of great ignorance.
> My Accent attracts some strange characters.
> The dark ages are still the surroundings of many and that in the information age.
> How can People go through Life so poorly educated.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Hope all goes well.



Ingried said:


> Hello Friends.
> All is under wraps. Trucks on the way to the new Home.
> Will see how Island living feels.
> I am staying in a Hotel until my things are in place.
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Aaarrrrgggghhh!!!! :hunf: A hundred more like Jesse Helms? Yup, the Republican party seems to like circling the drain. What absolute insanity! They seem to have taken to eating their young. We no longer have a two-party system. We have one party that tries to get some work done and another that spend its time doing the most insane things they can think of. Heck of a way to run the Legislature of the US. Republican members of Congress are the greatest patriots ever. NOT, NOT, NOT. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ingried
> 
> I was away when this thread was started and didn't know about it until today. I started on page 1 and got all the way to page 5 when the insults began, and for some unknown reason you were the target. Sorry about that. My parents were immigrants but never had to put up with the abuse I just saw directed at you. I apologize on behalf of the decent people of this country.


Welcome to the POV thread Purl. Ingried is a dear friend here and highly regarded. Unfortunately, the new right believes they should silence Ingried as an outsider who knows nothing about this country. Ingried knows more about the U.S. than her detractors and she also is well aware of how other countries view us. These people only know the party line they are fed and don't use even common sense. Many of us here share a lot of the same values but we all have our own P.O.V., point of view, and disagree about a lot of issues and speak our mind to our legislators and President when we are pleased or displeased with their actions. Because they are so brainwashed they never admit to any mistake the right makes and almost never mention any of their leaders by name. They see President Obama as a dictator who makes all the decisions concerning everything that happens in this country up to and including what happens in their own city and county governments. They are so illiterate when it comes to who does what at all levels of government it is shocking to say the least. It is sadly ignorant people who hurl insults, tell others they are ignorant, proclaim they have all the answers to everything in the world and on top of all that tell us if we don't agree with them and their religion/politics we are all going to hell. So Purl you are fore warned that you are joining up with some dangerous women like Ingried and the rest of the Liberal Ladies on this thread.
I welcome you, Purl. Please enjoy the thread! :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Being from Mass I am pretty darned happy so I will borrow TX and their biggest ******hat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/11/ted-cruz-jesse-helms_n_3909610.html



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for the news from Wisconsin and the update on Scott Walker, Al. Maybe we should check out activity in some other states as well. Any Liberal Ladies want to report on what is happening in your part of the country or your home state in particular? We should be aware of what is happening locally as well as on the national level.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oops, I see I need to find a new one. 
LOL, what a raving pistachio this guy is.

On a happier note, someone mentioned a hat being Derby worthy so I couldn't resist sharing.Pages and pages worth...

http://search.aol.com/aol/image?q=images+of+kentucky+derby+hats&v_t=keyword_rollover



MaidInBedlam said:


> Aaarrrrgggghhh!!!! :hunf: A hundred more like Jesse Helms? Yup, the Republican party seems to like circling the drain. What absolute insanity! They seem to have taken to eating their young. We no longer have a two-party system. We have one party that tries to get some work done and another that spend its time doing the most insane things they can think of. Heck of a way to run the Legislature of the US. Republican members of Congress are the greatest patriots ever. NOT, NOT, NOT. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

If only Cruz were important enough to dump like Trent Lott was.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> You can't make this stuff up. The GOP is collapsing in upon itself and they are doing it all by themselves.
> 
> THURSDAY, SEP 12, 2013 02:07 PM CDT
> Ted Cruzs war on the GOP accelerates
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Rand Paul, another GOP Young Gun
Like I said you can't make this up. TBBC

Daily Kos editors
ProfileDiaries (list)
WED SEP 11, 2013 AT 10:35 AM PDT
Rand Paul asks Americans to form alliance with Assad regime
byJed LewisonFollowforDaily Kos

There are countless good reasons to oppose a U.S. military strike in Syria, but apparently the good reasons aren't enough to satisfy U.S. senator and 2016 GOP hopeful Rand Paul, who responded to President Obama's speech last night with this ridiculous claim:
Twelve years after we were attacked by Al Qaeda, 12 years after 3,000 Americans were killed by Al Qaeda, President Obama now asks us to be allies with Al Qaeda.
Aside from the fact that Rand Paul apparently didn't listen to the president's speech before responding to itthe only new thing President Obama said in his speech last night was that he asked Congress to postpone a vote on supporting military action to give diplomacy a chancethe logical conclusion of Paul's claim is that he must support forming an alliance with Syria's Bashar al-Assad.
Obviously, that would be a ridiculous thing to say (even though Assad makes the same argument as Paul), but it's no more ridiculous than what Rand Paul said.

It's one thing to argue that striking Syria would be counterproductive and not in America's national interest, but claiming that the President of the United States is trying to forge an alliance with al Qaeda is just about the least convincing argument you can make against military strikes in Syria. It's every bit as dumb and inaccurate as John Kerry's "Munich moment" remark, except Paul is fortunate that most people don't pay much attention to him, because he's just a senator filled with hot air.

Still, the next time Paul claims that President Obama is trying to forge an alliance with the people who attacked us on 9/11, there's one question I'd like to see someone ask him: Does he think Osama bin Laden agrees?

ORIGINALLY POSTED TO DAILY KOS ON WED SEP 11, 2013 AT 10:35 AM PDT.

ALSO REPUBLISHED BY MY OLD KENTUCKY KOS.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The only thing I rarely have done, and only when I was a LOT younger, is leave the house without a bra. I can't bear to jiggle in public.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I walked around the neighborhood today with that grandbaby in his stroller to get him to sleep for his afternoon nap; I was sans brassiere. It seemed really odd, that doesn't happen often.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

If only Cruz were important enough to dump like Trent Lott was.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> You can't make this stuff up. The GOP is collapsing in upon itself and they are doing it all by themselves.
> 
> Don't worry jelun maybe Cruz will be embarrassed by some unseemly scandal like so many other politicians like Larry Craig, R-ID in the men's room. He just accidentally grabbed a man's leg in the next stall who happened to be a cop. I have heard the term "cop a f--l" but poor Larry took it quite literally. :hunf:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Hypocrites in public life often get found out in embarassing ways. YIPPEE!




Cheeky Blighter said:


> If only Cruz were important enough to dump like Trent Lott was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> I walked around the neighborhood today with that grandbaby in his stroller to get him to sleep for his afternoon nap; I was sans brassiere. It seemed really odd, that doesn't happen often.


But what a free feeling! It was a men who created all these uncomfortable undergarments we women wear. They should have had to wear them around themselves for at least a month before they imposed such nonsense on us.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

See you later, ladies. Bazinga!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

The way the obesity issue is going many should be wearing them full time.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> But what a free feeling! It was a men who created all these uncomfortable undergarments we women wear. They should have had to wear them around themselves for at least a month before they imposed such nonsense on us.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Rand Paul, another GOP Young Gun
> Like I said you can't make this up. TBBC
> 
> Daily Kos editors
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
and we thought that his Father was weird. He is trying to outdo him for sure.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

And these are the "rising stars" of the Reublican Party?
Oh my, that is really pathetic.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> The way the obesity issue is going many should be wearing them full time.


jelun2
I vote for certain sizes wearing them full time. There are some horrible girls exhibited now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

After reading the above posted articles about Paul, Rubio , and Cruz, I was inclined to look up the John Birch Society and compare it to the Tea Party of today. I see where knit crazy got her ideas about liberals being communists came from. It is a long article, but you will see several members on the right on KP must be without a doubt members of this orginization.

http://www.researchforprogress.us/rwpop/jbs.html


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I haven't worn a bra since high school.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I haven't worn a bra since high school.


Youl lucky woman. I was 'blessed' with bazooms. After I had my kids they went way down in size, but once I turned 50 it's like these 2 melons appeared on my chest overnight. I'm in a bra 24/7. I would rather be a 36XX than a 36 long anyday.
One good thing about the big bazooms is that when I change bras the weight from my girls pull the wrinkles right out of my face!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I haven't worn a bra since high school.


Some of us have to.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

My daughter just made a real push to get into shape, she now needs no bra. Her mother definitely does, though I love those things that I think of as sports bra light; there are no seams no hooks broader straps, they are so much more comfy than underwires and molded cups.



peacegoddess said:


> I haven't worn a bra since high school.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> My daughter just made a real push to get into shape, she now needs no bra. Her mother definitely does, though I love those things that I think of as sports bra light; there are no seams no hooks broader straps, they are so much more comfy than underwires and molded cups.


Tell me about it!........


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> After reading the above posted articles about Paul, Rubio , and Cruz, I was inclined to look up the John Birch Society and compare it to the Tea Party of today. I see where knit crazy got her ideas about liberals being communists came from. It is a long article, but you will see several members on the right on KP must be without a doubt members of this orginization.
> 
> http://www.researchforprogress.us/rwpop/jbs.html


Bratty Patty
I have no doubt. It just so fits with what they keep saying. Some years ago some recruiting dude thought he could get me to some of the JBS meetings and get me hooked. I of course went, nosy as I am and quickly saw the hook they were trying to get into everyone present who was new. They became very uncomfortale when I questioned things that were said. Those folks are scary.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Yes they are Huck, and many far right wing are members today. I wiuld love to get my hands on the "Blue Book".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope to hear from you when you're settled in your new home.


Ingried said:


> Hello Friends.
> All is under wraps. Trucks on the way to the new Home.
> Will see how Island living feels.
> I am staying in a Hotel until my things are in place.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I take the fifth.



MaidInBedlam said:


> The only thing I rarely have done, and only when I was a LOT younger, is leave the house without a bra. I can't bear to jiggle in public.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huh?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> You can't make this stuff up. The GOP is collapsing in upon itself and they are doing it all by themselves.
> 
> THURSDAY, SEP 12, 2013 02:07 PM CDT
> Ted Cruzs war on the GOP accelerates
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> If only Cruz were important enough to dump like Trent Lott was.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aaarrrrgggghhh!!!! :hunf: A hundred more like Jesse Helms? Yup, the Republican party seems to like circling the drain. What absolute insanity! They seem to have taken to eating their young. We no longer have a two-party system. We have one party that tries to get some work done and another that spend its time doing the most insane things they can think of. Heck of a way to run the Legislature of the US. Republican members of Congress are the greatest patriots ever. NOT, NOT, NOT. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Let's not forget Florida and Louisiana! Governors are popular in the presidential races. Oh Oh, those sharp thorny things, too, from the northern states... WI and MI. 
I just cannot wait for the Republican debates, it is too bad they learned their lesson from the last swing through and won't have so many this time around.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> what I like about Cruz is that the Republicans keep telling him that he is very intelligent. He believes that and goes out on every limb he can find to shout his nonsense. In time he will do himself in. Look at those who where the Poster Boys like Governor Ultrasaound. Time takes its toll on these big shots. Their Ego always attracts those who get them in trouble.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NO. It's wonderful. It's marvelous.



BrattyPatty said:


> And these are the "rising stars" of the Reublican Party?
> Oh my, that is really pathetic.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I waited until I retired. So liberating.



peacegoddess said:


> I haven't worn a bra since high school.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Someone decided to scare a skunk, seems like the perfect time to bury my nose in a pillow! Nite, folks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> Someone decided to scare a skunk, seems like the perfect time to bury my nose in a pillow! Nite, folks.


LOL Sweet dreams, jelun!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BAZINGA TOO!!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I waited until I retired. So liberating.


I actually have two kinds of bras: the stretched-out comfortable kind that I wear around the house, and the numbers with underwires, stiff straps, and everything else necessary to look "presentable". My mother and sister both had small bosoms, but I wasn't as fortunate!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Anti-science Religious Right leaders in Texas are once again trying to get creationism placed in the states science textbooks and undermine the teaching of evolution.
The Texas State Board of Education needs to be know that science belongs in science textbooks, not religion.
Theres a hearing of the State Board of Education on TUESDAY 9/17/13 in Austin, and state officials know the whole country is watching.
Because of the way Texas chooses its textbooks and the massive size of the states market, what Texas requires in its textbooks has national implications, because the textbook publishers sell the same textbooks nationwide.
Not only have evolution deniers been placed on the official review teams for biology textbooks they are:
	Insisting that "creation science based on Biblical principles should be incorporated into every biology book that is up for adoption."
	Complaining that a textbook "neglects to tell students that no transitional fossils have been discovered."
	And pushing wildly inaccurate claims that deny the science of climate change. PFAW.org

http://humanorigins.si.edu/ - 67k Smithsonian Institution

http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence - 35k Smithsonian Institution


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Anti-science Religious Right leaders in Texas are once again trying to get creationism placed in the states science textbooks and undermine the teaching of evolution.
> The Texas State Board of Education needs to be know that science belongs in science textbooks, not religion.
> Theres a hearing of the State Board of Education on TUESDAY 9/17/13 in Austin, and state officials know the whole country is watching.
> Because of the way Texas chooses its textbooks and the massive size of the states market, what Texas requires in its textbooks has national implications, because the textbook publishers sell the same textbooks nationwide.
> ...


I wonder how the Christian creationists would feel if textbooks gave equal time to other religions' views on how the world came into being? Fair is fair--why should the beliefs of one religious group be allowed to squeeze out all the rest?

Buddhists--believe that the world was not created once upon a time, but that the world has been created millions of times every second and will continue to do so by itself and will break away by itself. According to Buddhism, world systems always appear and disappear in the universe.

Hindus--Hindu scriptures hold that Lord Vishnu, the protector and caretaker of all creation, sleeps in the middle of a vast ocean on the giant snake Sheshnaga or ananta (which means un-ending or infinity. When the cycle begins, Lord Brahma is born out of the 'Anda', an allusion to the egg which is the origin of all life. This 'Anda' comes out of the navel of Lord Vishnu. The first sound of Lord Brahma is Om, the origin of all creation.

Taoists--Yin (dark side) is the breath that formed the earth. Yang (light side) is the breath that formed the heavens. They symbolize pairs of opposites which are seen throughout the universe, such as good and evil, light and dark, male and female. Intervention by human civilization upsets the balances of Yin and Yang.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wonder how the Christian creationists would feel if textbooks gave equal time to other religions' views on how the world came into being? Fair is fair--why should the beliefs of one religious group be allowed to squeeze out all the rest?
> 
> Buddhists--believe that the world was not created once upon a time, but that the world has been created millions of times every second and will continue to do so by itself and will break away by itself. According to Buddhism, world systems always appear and disappear in the universe.
> 
> ...


Makes perfect sense to me. They are so insecure and rather than consider the possibilities they cling to this like a baby clings to it's mother and they hide their face in her chest. Sad way to live when the whole of creation is out there to explore. I love a good adventure. Bazinga!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Night Cheeky!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

As a Buddhist one of my favourite saying attributed to Buddha is 

I am not a God, do not look to me for divine intervention, and do not take my word as gospel, but question everything I say.

I say 'attributed to Buddha' because Buddha did not write anything down, his followers did that. Just as Jesus did not leave a written record, his followers did that.

I also strongly believe in the cyclical nature of the universe. Every golden age is followed by a dark age, in a cyclic fashion. Each golden age is a little brighter than the previous and each dark age is a little less dark than the previous.

Buddhist beliefs are based on Hindu beliefs as they grew out of them. The cyclic nature of the universe you write about is really Hindu belief. The main difference Buddha brought was the philosophy regarding the Hindu caste system.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Anti-science Religious Right leaders in Texas are once again trying to get creationism placed in the states science textbooks and undermine the teaching of evolution.
> The Texas State Board of Education needs to be know that science belongs in science textbooks, not religion.
> Theres a hearing of the State Board of Education on TUESDAY 9/17/13 in Austin, and state officials know the whole country is watching.
> Because of the way Texas chooses its textbooks and the massive size of the states market, what Texas requires in its textbooks has national implications, because the textbook publishers sell the same textbooks nationwide.
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
I admire you knowledge and your homework. Thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> As a Buddhist one of my favourite saying attributed to Buddha is
> 
> I am not a God, do not look to me for divine intervention, and do not take my word as gospel, but question everything I say.
> 
> ...


EveMCooke
Thank you very much. Enjoy reading your postings.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wonder how the Christian creationists would feel if textbooks gave equal time to other religions' views on how the world came into being? Fair is fair--why should the beliefs of one religious group be allowed to squeeze out all the rest?
> 
> Buddhists--believe that the world was not created once upon a time, but that the world has been created millions of times every second and will continue to do so by itself and will break away by itself. According to Buddhism, world systems always appear and disappear in the universe.
> 
> ...


susanmos2000
if Religion is to be woven into Science Books, we MUST insist that ALL Religions are represented. That would result in either no Science will be taught or no time left to teach anything else.
What a mess. I am almost ready to go for the introduction of all Religions into Science Books, it would open the eyes of our Youngsters to things they would never learn otherwise. They would get a very multifaceted education and could no longer be brainwashed that Christianity is the only thing to believe in.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Good morning Susan. I've thought of several posts to make but they're all too harsh so, after writing them, I've deleted them. That first cup of coffee may help me wake up, but the enjoyment seems to mellow me a bit.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> if Religion is to be woven into Science Books, we MUST insist that ALL Religions are represented. That would result in either no Science will be taught or no time left to teach anything else.


Yes--I'd be amazed if the students got past the first chapter. But fair is fair--I've always felt that those communities that hang a copy of the Ten Commandments in their public buildings should also be required to hang up portions of the Torah, the Koran, the Sutras etc etc.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Much better suggestion. Leave evolution out. If they ask how the world began have the children ask their religious leader.


To not teach young people the science of evolution--whether they accept it or not--would leave a huge gap in their education, especially on an international level. Although we in America continue to use the English system of measurements (inches, feet, miles) it's crucial to have at least some knowledge of metrics, the system most of the rest of the world relies on.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good morning Susan. I've thought of several posts to make but they're all too harsh so, after writing them, I've deleted them. That first cup of coffee may help me wake up, but the enjoyment seems to mellow me a bit.


I know what you mean, Maid. It's not even 8 and I'm already feeling slightly frantic at the willful deliberate ignorance expressed in some of these posts.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Someone decided to scare a skunk, seems like the perfect time to bury my nose in a pillow! Nite, folks.


One night as I was reading in bed I heard a little "yik, yik" kind of sound. I looked out my window and saw the shadows of four little critters. I looked down at the ground below my window and saw 4 baby skunks frolicking. Mom was close by watching. I shut my window very slowly and quietly on the assumption that baby skunks might not have the best control over their odor release systems, or Mom might think there was some sort of threat. Many a night I have had to close my window because there are skunks around where I live. I'm pretty sure that odor can wake the dead. It can certainly wake me when I'm in the deepest depths of sleep. The whine of a mosquito does the same.

We had a fire in our apartment building in 2006, started in the apartment above us. All the water poured down into our apartment. Both apartments had to be completely rebuilt from the framing out because they were old enough to be completely out of code.

One of my cats wigged out to the extent of disappearing. After a day or two I found she was hiding under a neighbor's gardening shed. Couldn't catch her to save my life, so I rented a humane trap from the local SPCA. I set it up near her hiding place, which wasn't very well-lit, with a dish of enticing cat food as the bait. First time I checked the trap there was something in it, which I almost started to carry home until it turned around in the trap and I saw that white stripe.

I levitated from standing by the trap to a distance of about 30 feet away. Then I called Animal Control. The nice officer who came out asked if I wanted the skunk taken away or released. Of course, I voted for release and that was done. She was so pleased that she lent me one of her humane traps because she said the one I had rented wasn't very good. Wow! a trusting city employee! Another one of the miracles of this story.

I reset the trap and came back a couple of hours later, This time I had caught a cat. unfortunately, it wasn't my cat. I opened the trap to release it and learned just how fast a cat can explode from a place it doesn't want to be in. Speed of light was achieved by that cat, I think. That cat had its fur all puffed out to an extent I had never seen before, and all its teeth bared, It was a large cat. It had large teeth. Its canines were particularly impressive. I was glad that the sole item on its agenda was escape and that it didn't want to pause and shred me.

I reset the trap a thrid time, came back a couple of hours again, and there was my dear little Stella, well and truly caught. I carried her to our temporary digs in the trap because she would have gotten away again if i'd let her out.

I spent the longest three blocks of my life walking to our temporary home as Stella sang Klingon Opera all the way as loudly as she could. I was in dread that troups of neighbors would pop out of their houses and berate me for animal cruelty. This didn't happen and I am still glad it didn't. When I got home I let Stella out near the food and water already put out for her. She ate and drank and that was that. She was home and all as well in her world.

I hope this little stories give you folks a little chuckle.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> One night as I was reading in bed I heard a little "yik, yik" kind of sound. I looked out my window and saw the shadows of four little critters. I looked down at the ground below my window and saw 4 baby skunks frolicking. Mom was close by watching. I shut my window very slowly and quietly on the assumption that baby skunks might not have the best control over their odor release systems, or Mom might think there was some sort of threat. Many a night I have had to close my window because there are skunks around where I live. I'm pretty sure that odor can wake the dead. It can certainly wake me when I'm in the deepest depths of sleep. The whine of a mosquito does the same.
> 
> We had a fire in our apartment building in 2006, started in the apartment above us. All the water poured down into our apartment. Both apartments had to be completely rebuilt from the framing out because they were old enough to be completely out of code.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I loved reading your story. cats can be so independent if they choose. But where would we be without their love and affection.

Please continue to post these warm stories for us to read.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Much better suggestion. Leave evolution out. If they ask how the world began have the children ask their religious leader.


joeysomma
why is the real World so threatening to you?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Thanks, I loved reading your story. cats can be so independent if they choose. But where would we be without their love and affection.
> Please continue to post these warm stories for us to read.


Those two stories got here because I couldn't think of anything nice to say about most of the things posted since I last looked in. I bet that'll happen again. I'm glad you enjoyed the stories. I enjoy your posts.

How do you like my new hat? I googled unusual women's hats and there it was, just lurking for me to pick.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> One night as I was reading in bed I heard a little "yik, yik" kind of sound. I looked out my window and saw the shadows of four little critters. I looked down at the ground below my window and saw 4 baby skunks frolicking. Mom was close by watching. I shut my window very slowly and quietly on the assumption that baby skunks might not have the best control over their odor release systems, or Mom might think there was some sort of threat. Many a night I have had to close my window because there are skunks around where I live. I'm pretty sure that odor can wake the dead. It can certainly wake me when I'm in the deepest depths of sleep. The whine of a mosquito does the same.
> 
> We had a fire in our apartment building in 2006, started in the apartment above us. All the water poured down into our apartment. Both apartments had to be completely rebuilt from the framing out because they were old enough to be completely out of code.
> 
> ...


Thank you MIB
lovely story. Thank you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam
love your new Hat.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

A little News: 4 Native American Tribes are recognizing same sex marriages.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I am not a big Governor Brown fan, but he is trying on this issue.

California, China to link climate-change efforts
Joe Garofoli

With international agreements to control climate change hard to achieve, environmentalists hope an innovative new link between California and the Chinese government to cooperate on a range of low-carbon economic ventures jump-starts other ways to tackle the problem.

On Friday, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a memorandum of understanding with China's lead international climate negotiator, Xie Zhenhua, the country's vice chair of its National Development and Reform Commission, the agency that oversees economic development in the country.

The agreement - in which the countries pledged to work together on sharing low-carbon strategies and create joint-ventures on clean technologies - is believed to be the only such connection between a state and the Chinese government over climate change.

Environmentalists and political leaders hope a tighter relationship between California - the world's eighth-largest economy and where per-capita electricity use has remained flat for 30 years - and China, the world's fastest-growing economy and leading emissions producer, will spark innovation after scientists, academics and business leaders trade ideas to curb climate change.

On Friday, Brown called climate change "the greatest problem mankind has ever faced," and hoped that California "can be the catalyst that shifts national policy and international policy."

Pressing China on the importance of tackling climate change was a major part of Brown's trade mission there in April and part of his discussion with China's President Xi Jinping in June in the U.S. Pollution is choking major cities like Beijing.

Friday's agreement is rooted in a belief that trends that start in California can spread across the U.S. - and likewise across China.

Brown said the agreement doesn't affect U.S. policy on climate change. He has been in touch with President Obama, Secretary of State John Kerry and Chinese leaders about Friday's agreement "and they are all on board."

"It is a model agreement. We have a lot to learn from China, just as they have a lot they can learn from us," said Derek Walker, a climate and energy expert with the Environmental Defense Fund.

Regional partnerships such as the one signed Friday can only go so far in the absence of international agreements.

"It's a step in the right direction, but it's not a solution in any way," said Max Auffhammer, a professor of economics and the environment at UC Berkeley.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I am not a big Governor Brown fan, but he is trying on this issue.
> 
> California, China to link climate-change efforts
> Joe Garofoli
> ...


peacegoddess
it looks like Gov. Brown is on the right track on a number of issues. Sure doing much better than Arnold did. I do not think that Californians want him back.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Arnold is a not a nice man.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> As a Buddhist one of my favourite saying attributed to Buddha is
> 
> I am not a God, do not look to me for divine intervention, and do not take my word as gospel, but question everything I say.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your knowledge Eve. I have much to learn on this adventure through this life. Everyday begins anew for me and it is open to so many possibilities. Namaste


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Those two stories got here because I couldn't think of anything nice to say about most of the things posted since I last looked in. I bet that'll happen again. I'm glad you enjoyed the stories. I enjoy your posts.
> 
> How do you like my new hat? I googled unusual women's hats and there it was, just lurking for me to pick.


MIB, love the hat. Those are the MN Vikings colors. Go Vikings!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Happy Saturday ladies! I am starting a new sweater for GD so will be on and off today. It's dreary, chilly and damp today. Just the weather I needed to get my knitting started again. I frogged the previous one. it turned out that the Mohair blend collar would have been too itchy on her little chin and neck.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Those two stories got here because I couldn't think of anything nice to say about most of the things posted since I last looked in. I bet that'll happen again. I'm glad you enjoyed the stories. I enjoy your posts.
> 
> How do you like my new hat? I googled unusual women's hats and there it was, just lurking for me to pick.


Love the hat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, my dear, you are fortunate. Be proud....but comfortable too.



susanmos2000 said:


> I actually have two kinds of bras: the stretched-out comfortable kind that I wear around the house, and the numbers with underwires, stiff straps, and everything else necessary to look "presentable". My mother and sister both had small bosoms, but I wasn't as fortunate!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

This week, we learned that the income gap between the rich and the rest of us is greater than it's been since the 1920's. The 1% are pulling in profits hand over fist while most Americans struggle to make ends meet. It's unacceptable and we need change now. Congress could alleviate some of the economic pain and close the gap by raising the minimum wage, but we all know that the Republicans would never let that happen. 

But that doesn't mean that progress needs to wait. Multi-billion dollar corporations like McDonald's could improve the lives of millions of working Americans tomorrow by paying their employees a living wage instead of locking them in near the minimum wage. McDonald's workers went on strike recently to demand better pay, but they can't win this fight alone. McDonald's won't change unless the American public stands behind these workers and demands it. 

Let's tell McDonald's that you've had enough - no working American deserves to live in poverty. Pay your employees a living wage. 

Last year, McDonald's brought in $5.5 billion dollars in profits - and tripled its CEO's salary. But the majority of its employees make less than $16,000 a year. Many of these workers are adults caring for ailing parents or young children, and a salary that low makes it nearly impossible for them to survive. Most of them have to hold down multiple jobs. Many frequently go hungry. 

McDonald's has responded to public pressure to make positive change happen before. Decades ago, environmentalists turned up the heat on McDonald's over the use of plastic foam packaging, which isn't biodegradable. The corporation resisted at first, but after the environmentalists educated and rallied the public McDonald's listened to the people and introduced more eco-friendly packaging. 

They've listened before. Let's make them listen again.

Let's all tell McDonald's to pay their employees a living wage now. 

Thank you for standing up for workers. Cheeky

Solidarity forever! Say Yes to Organized Labor and bring back the Unions! (the biggest boogey man of the corporations!)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have signed a national petition to say that I deplore the idea of religion masquerading as science. Religion should teach religion. Science teach science. Individuals may judge for themselves, but not for others.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Anti-science Religious Right leaders in Texas are once again trying to get creationism placed in the states science textbooks and undermine the teaching of evolution.
> The Texas State Board of Education needs to be know that science belongs in science textbooks, not religion.
> Theres a hearing of the State Board of Education on TUESDAY 9/17/13 in Austin, and state officials know the whole country is watching.
> Because of the way Texas chooses its textbooks and the massive size of the states market, what Texas requires in its textbooks has national implications, because the textbook publishers sell the same textbooks nationwide.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How would religionists feel if science taught their views on religion's tenets?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have signed a national petition to say that I deplore the idea of religion masquerading as science. Religion should teach religion. Science teach science. Individuals may judge for themselves, but not for others.


Another example or the religious right trying to force their beliefs on us all into supporting their form of government, Christian theocracy. It just isn't going to happen and the pushier that get the more people are going to push back and say not in my country folks. They are their own worst enemies and they just can't see it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My dear, would you like science teachers to teach Christianity? What about other faiths' opinions? Evolution is important to know for educated people to know. You live in a small world, and you wish to leave children to nothing else. Fortunately, there are many people who will fight you on this. This is the wrong thread to argue against evolution.



joeysomma said:


> Much better suggestion. Leave evolution out. If they ask how the world began have the children ask their religious leader.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--I'd be amazed if the students got past the first chapter. But fair is fair--I've always felt that those communities that hang a copy of the Ten Commandments in their public buildings should also be required to hang up portions of the Torah, the Koran, the Sutras etc etc.


And Darwin's Theory of Evolution.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bless your heart or God bless you.

Just a word to the wise. In recent days some of the Christian right have been saying "bless you heart" or "God bless you" to myself and others on the left. I was told from a reliable source and then researched it online also and found out that this is what these "devout" folks are really telling you;

1. This is a term used by the people of the southern United States to express to someone that they are an idiot without saying such harsh words. 

2. "You are an idiot but I like you and care about you so I don't 
want to hurt your feelings."

I saw other sources about what this means in the south but they are not fit to print here. As church lady says; "Now isn't that special?"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps it is time for all good folks to come to the aid of the party. This thread is "POV Liberal." It is not the place to debate evolution. Comments, please.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm amused and charmed.



MaidInBedlam said:


> One night as I was reading in bed I heard a little "yik, yik" kind of sound. I looked out my window and saw the shadows of four little critters. I looked down at the ground below my window and saw 4 baby skunks frolicking. Mom was close by watching. I shut my window very slowly and quietly on the assumption that baby skunks might not have the best control over their odor release systems, or Mom might think there was some sort of threat. Many a night I have had to close my window because there are skunks around where I live. I'm pretty sure that odor can wake the dead. It can certainly wake me when I'm in the deepest depths of sleep. The whine of a mosquito does the same.
> 
> We had a fire in our apartment building in 2006, started in the apartment above us. All the water poured down into our apartment. Both apartments had to be completely rebuilt from the framing out because they were old enough to be completely out of code.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Perhaps it is time for all good folks to come to the aid of the party. This thread is "POV Liberal." It is not the place to debate evolution. Comments, please.


Right you are Damemary. I started this thread and stated it is to be a place of civil discussion for Liberal ladies and Gents if they are out there. If you are not Liberal or not civil please do not post here. I have already asked this many times but a rebellious and vocal minority don't comprehend things too well so damemary let's just tip toe around their inane filibusters and as our dear friends the Brits say; Keep Calm and Carry On! They made it through the Blitz and we will put up with their minor annoyances. Perhaps Patty will have to get out the RAID again. I do hate the smell of that stuff. Perhaps I should brush up on my Latin and perform an exorcism. :hunf:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky, I say 'try it all.' I love what you've done and I abhor jousting with the flat earth crew. I'll do anything....except give up.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Right you are Damemary. I started this thread and stated it is to be a place of civil discussion for Liberal ladies and Gents if they are out there. If you are not Liberal or not civil please do not post here. I have already asked this many times but a rebellious and vocal minority don't comprehend things too well so damemary let's just tip toe around their inane filibusters and as our dear friends the Brits say; Keep Calm and Carry On! They made it through the Blitz and we will put up with their minor annoyances. Perhaps Patty will have to get out the RAID again. I do hate the smell of that stuff. Perhaps I should brush up on my Latin and perform an exorcism. :hunf:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> After reading the above posted articles about Paul, Rubio , and Cruz, I was inclined to look up the John Birch Society and compare it to the Tea Party of today. I see where knit crazy got her ideas about liberals being communists came from. It is a long article, but you will see several members on the right on KP must be without a doubt members of this organization.
> 
> http://www.researchforprogress.us/rwpop/jbs.html


Thanks for the link, Patty. I remember the Bircher's from when I was a kid. I saw on another thread that knit crazy pooped all over a thread where people were discussing medical conditions and asking for advice and she brought up ACA and went into hysterics about stock piling meds and how everyone needs to be prepared when Jan 1 hits and we will all be up the creek without a paddle. Several posters asked her to stop but she is so rude she kept picking away. I guess she will c--p on any thread. She is a real piece of work and she has a few stitches missing from her knitting needles if you get my drift. I wonder how they would like it if we all piled on to K&P at one time with our political and religious ideas. The impact would send all the water out of their backyard pond. Oh happy day!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I received this PM today and am posting it with the consent of both people who made comments to each other in it. Unlike others, I would never post another's PM without their consent. When you send any one on KP a Private Message that is exactly what the sender trusts that it will be. Sadly, once again this is being done by the right wing extremists on KP who also claim they are Christians. You all know who I am talking about. I totally expect that these same people will show up and say I made this up but sadly I did not. Their disgusting behavior is being felt all over KP and they are getting a very bad reputation. That is one reason our Liberal group is growing because people are tired of them. I have been angry with them, felt sorry for them and laughed at them. Soon I will feel absolutely nothing for them. Personally, I would rather have someone feel some emotion towards me than to no longer care but that is the direction I am heading in. Unless a miracle occurs and they realize that the rest of the human race is out here and they are not running the show I wash my hands of them just as I do with dirt. They brought it all down on themselves.

This is what the original PM said and the reply. The person who sent this to me. When she says to laugh because it is a joke this is in reply to the friend.

Yes, I am a wimp because I am not game enough to post this on the open forum, but it is a joke so please laugh. 

I have always said I was not going to heaven because I have seen the mob who reckon they have been assured a place there and to spend eternity with them would be pure hell.
-- just sent me a PM after reading Country Bumpkin's latest post. 
The PM reads
Hang on girl, I am packing my bags and coming with you. You are not leaving me in heaven for all eternity with that mob.

--Wow, I think that would stir up the hornet's nest.

This part of the PM was said to me;
You may be game enough to post the PM from --, you are much braver than I am. --


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This week, we learned that the income gap between the rich and the rest of us is greater than it's been since the 1920's. The 1% are pulling in profits hand over fist while most Americans struggle to make ends meet. It's unacceptable and we need change now. Congress could alleviate some of the economic pain and close the gap by raising the minimum wage, but we all know that the Republicans would never let that happen.
> 
> But that doesn't mean that progress needs to wait. Multi-billion dollar corporations like McDonald's could improve the lives of millions of working Americans tomorrow by paying their employees a living wage instead of locking them in near the minimum wage. McDonald's workers went on strike recently to demand better pay, but they can't win this fight alone. McDonald's won't change unless the American public stands behind these workers and demands it.
> 
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
thank you. Solidarity forever. Workers around the Globe are fighting, marching, striking for higher wages. We will get there.
Time that every worker gets paid a decent wage. Time to do away with the cheap labor some folks get rich and richer on. Time to make the Unions more powerful once again while keeping an eye on their governing of course. Some have not done so well in that arena in the past. Glad to still have the News Stand (actually a store) where we can get News from all over the World. His business is booming glad to see.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I received this PM today and am posting it with the consent of both people who made comments to each other in it. Unlike others, I would never post another's PM without their consent. When you send any one on KP a Private Message that is exactly what the sender trusts that it will be. Sadly, once again this is being done by the right wing extremists on KP who also claim they are Christians. You all know who I am talking about. I totally expect that these same people will show up and say I made this up but sadly I did not. Their disgusting behavior is being felt all over KP and they are getting a very bad reputation. That is one reason our Liberal group is growing because people are tired of them. I have been angry with them, felt sorry for them and laughed at them. Soon I will feel absolutely nothing for them. Personally, I would rather have someone feel some emotion towards me than to no longer care but that is the direction I am heading in. Unless a miracle occurs and they realize that the rest of the human race is out here and they are not running the show I wash my hands of them just as I do with dirt. They brought it all down on themselves.
> 
> This is what the original PM said and the reply. The person who sent this to me. When she says to laugh because it is a joke this is in reply to the friend.
> 
> ...


Cheeky Blighter
isn't it a pleasure to know that after this life we will be joining likeminded people where-ever and shall celebrate good company?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Bratty Patty and Friends

we had a most pleasant Lunch with dear longtime neighbors. We look out for each other, helped raising their children and took care of their animals and they of ours when any of us went away. They are good Christians and I want to underline good. They know how we view Religion and they NEVER EVER mention Christianity, God, Hell, Heaven or Devil. Isn't that how it should be? No shouting, flaunting one's godliness and simply accepting other views with grace. We love them.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Sounds like quite an exciting time. I will stick to hiding in bed.



MaidInBedlam said:


> One night as I was reading in bed I heard a little "yik, yik" kind of sound. I looked out my window and saw the shadows of four little critters. I looked down at the ground below my window and saw 4 baby skunks frolicking. Mom was close by watching. I shut my window very slowly and quietly on the assumption that baby skunks might not have the best control over their odor release systems, or Mom might think there was some sort of threat. Many a night I have had to close my window because there are skunks around where I live. I'm pretty sure that odor can wake the dead. It can certainly wake me when I'm in the deepest depths of sleep. The whine of a mosquito does the same.
> 
> We had a fire in our apartment building in 2006, started in the apartment above us. All the water poured down into our apartment. Both apartments had to be completely rebuilt from the framing out because they were old enough to be completely out of code.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You may note that I am in the process of adopting the practice. It is so sweet to say "God bless".



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bless your heart or God bless you.
> 
> Just a word to the wise. In recent days some of the Christian right have been saying "bless you heart" or "God bless you" to myself and others on the left. I was told from a reliable source and then researched it online also and found out that this is what these "devout" folks are really telling you;
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

jelun2 said:


> You may note that I am in the process of adopting the practice. It is so sweet to say "God bless".


jelun2
amazing how many meanings these few words have.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

They aren't that sweet or that religious. Crazy, yes.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> You may note that I am in the process of adopting the practice. It is so sweet to say "God bless".


Especially fitting for this bunch, jelun. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

In the past few weeks, the press has started reporting something outrageous about this fall's budget negotiations: "The [Republican] party's top priority is to cut safety-net programs like Social Security and Medicare."
John Boehner and extremist Republicans are about to take our economy hostage again. He's demanding extreme cuts in exchange for simply agreeing to raise the debt ceiling -- i.e. paying the bills Congress already accumulated.
Many people havent heard much about Republican threats to cut Social Security lately. That is by design.
This is a dangerous fight, and it's going to play out over the next month -- when Republicans would love nothing more than for the public to focus on international affairs instead of deeply unpopular cuts to this program that we should be expanding.
Just two years ago, Boehner made the same reckless demand, almost destroying our already fragile economic recovery and causing our nation's debt rating to be downgraded. And earlier this year, he threatened the same thing once again -- but progressives stood up and prevented Republicans from throwing our economy off a cliff.
On the other side, radical conservatives will be bankrolled by seven-figure checks from wealthy extremists and corporate interests. 
Millions of hardworking Americans depend on Social Security. It is the most successful anti-poverty program in our nation's history. What John Boehner is promising to do is extreme, and it is dangerous. We can't let him get away with it.

Progressives United.org


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Definition of a fundamentalist for the fundamentalists who don't know that is what they are.

fun·da·men·tal·ism (fnd-mntl-zm)
n.
1. A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism.
2.
a. often Fundamentalism An organized, militant Evangelical movement originating in the United States in the late 19th and early 20th century in opposition to Protestant Liberalism and secularism, insisting on the inerrancy of Scripture.
b. Adherence to the theology of this movement.

1
a often capitalized : a movement in 20th century Protestantism emphasizing the literally interpreted Bible as fundamental to Christian life and teaching
b : the beliefs of this movement
c : adherence to such beliefs
2
: a movement or attitude stressing strict and literal adherence to a set of basic principles <Islamic fundamentalism> <political fundamentalism>
 fun·da·men·tal·ist noun
 fundamentalist or fun·da·men·tal·is·tic adjective
First Known Use of FUNDAMENTALISM

1922

fundamentalism
Syllabification: (fun·da·men·tal·ism)
Pronunciation: /ˌfəndəˈmentlˌizəm/

noun
a form of a religion, especially Islam or Protestant Christianity, that upholds belief in the strict, literal interpretation of scripture.
strict adherence to the basic principles of any subject or discipline:
free-market fundamentalism
Modern Christian fundamentalism arose from American millenarian sects of the 19th century and has become associated with reaction against social and political liberalism, and with the rejection of the theory of evolution. Islamic fundamentalism appeared in the 18th and 19th centuries as a reaction to the disintegration of Islamic political and economic power, asserting that Islam is central to both state and society and advocating strict adherence to the Koran (Quran) and to Islamic law (sharia)

Derivatives

fundamentalist
noun & adjective
fundamentalism in other Oxford dictionaries

Definition of fundamentalism in the British & World English dictionary


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Meet the Secret $256 Million Bank for Right Wing Causes

Posted on Sep 13, 2013


Sergio Vassio (CC BY 2.0)
Everybody knows that wealthy conservatives, led by the infamous Koch brothers, have been funneling oceans of cash into the political process. Now, Politico reports, we have a sense of how much, and how it works.

The political news site got its hands on an IRS filing by the shadowy Freedom Partners group that reveals the nonprofit organizationuntil now known only to a few Washington insidersdoled out $236 million last year to shape political and policy debate nationwide.

The 38-page IRS filing amounts to the Rosetta Stone of the vast web of conservative groups  some prominent, some obscurethat spend time, money and resources to influence public debate, especially over Obamacare.

The group has about 200 donors, each paying at least $100,000 in annual dues. It raised $256 million in the year after its creation in November 2011, the document shows. And it made grants of $236 millionmeaning a totally unknown group was the largest sugar daddy for conservative groups in the last election, second in total spending only to Karl Roves American Crossroads and Crossroads GPS, which together spent about $300 million.

Charles and David Koch, the billionaire industrialists who have been spending their pocket change trying to steer the nation to the political right, are the glue of the organization, but its clearly more than them. Look at it as a MoveOn.org for the 1/100th percent crowd.

And the money does matter. The group dropped $130 million on two organizations trying to shut down the Affordable Care Act; $32.3 million on the politically active Americans for Prosperity group; $13.6 million on Iowas American Future Fund, which flooded airwaves there with Mitt Romney ads; and far down the list, grants of less than $1 million each to a series of state-level tea party groups.

Of course, the wealth that is flowing into these groups begins mostly with consumer spending. Koch Industries, for instance, owns such diverse entities as Georgia-Pacific (think Brawny paper towels), INVISTA (Stainmaster carpet) and Koch Fertilizer, which helps grow some of the veggies you eat every day.

The pervasiveness of the corporations in both daily life and American politics is unsettling, as is the knowledge that dollars people spend on consumer items help fuel political agendas they oppose. One sliver of good news: Theres an app for that.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Anti-science Religious Right leaders in Texas are once again trying to get creationism placed in the states science textbooks and undermine the teaching of evolution.
> The Texas State Board of Education needs to be know that science belongs in science textbooks, not religion.
> Theres a hearing of the State Board of Education on TUESDAY 9/17/13 in Austin, and state officials know the whole country is watching.


Saw this in our newspaper. Ahhhh....drives me nuts!! Why do people feel the need to control what others learn.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Much better suggestion. Leave evolution out. If they ask how the world began have the children ask their religious leader.


Good thought, but what if a child doesn't have a "religious" leader?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Those two stories got here because I couldn't think of anything nice to say about most of the things posted since I last looked in. I bet that'll happen again. I'm glad you enjoyed the stories. I enjoy your posts.
> 
> How do you like my new hat? I googled unusual women's hats and there it was, just lurking for me to pick.


I googled 'crazy hats' and saw one that is an ice cream cone, lying sideways, but at the moment I cannot seem to transfer it to the site to use as an avatar. I am using the ipad and some functions still escape me. I prefer the PC but use the ipad because it is safer. No hard drive to download any nasty virus.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I googled 'crazy hats' and saw one that is an ice cream cone, lying sideways, but at the moment I cannot seem to transfer it to the site to use as an avatar. I am using the ipad and some functions still escape me. I prefer the PC but use the ipad because it is safer. No hard drive to download any nasty virus.


I wish I could help, Eve but I am not familiar with using an ipad. I know alcameron has one and she may be able to help you or some other lady on the thread.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Arnold is a not a nice man.


Arnie is just another pretty face with a big you-now-what in his trousers. He's always done his thinking with his little head. The big one is just for show.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm signing off for tonight, ladies. See you all tomorrow.
Bazinga!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Right you are Damemary. I started this thread and stated it is to be a place of civil discussion for Liberal ladies and Gents if they are out there. If you are not Liberal or not civil please do not post here. I have already asked this many times but a rebellious and vocal minority don't comprehend things too well so damemary let's just tip toe around their inane filibusters and as our dear friends the Brits say; Keep Calm and Carry On! They made it through the Blitz and we will put up with their minor annoyances. Perhaps Patty will have to get out the RAID again. I do hate the smell of that stuff. Perhaps I should brush up on my Latin and perform an exorcism. :hunf:


What I find amusing is people chastise you and post "you only say that because you are hiding behind an internet site. you would not say that if you were talking face to face." Now that is entirely correct. If I posted what I would say in a face to face situation, using the local vernacular, I would be permanently banned from this site and my words would probably make your hair curl. Let me see........poyic, yargmts, jyraaib. Those are not words they are the first letters of words. yes, like my fellow countrymen, I can use colourful language, and often do.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> How would religionists feel if science taught their views on religion's tenets?


Religionists don't feel, unless they've checked their Bibles first. They don't have any views unless they are validated by the same outside source. People who really value spititual development don't act like they're about to melt away if they dare to consider any other point of view than the Bible. You folks remember the Bible? That's a popular book that's been translated into so many languages nobody knows what it means anymore.

Yeah, yeah, I'm some sort of Christian or other, but I wouldn't give house room to some of the nutjobs who hide behind their Bibles here on KP. I'd rather keep my toes warm in Hell.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> jelun2
> amazing how many meanings these few words have.


Have you watched the episode of Mrs Brown's boys, the one where she keeps saying "thats nice". The one where her husband gave her elocution lessons for her birthday present. So funny but true. So we could all reply with "thats nice". it is on youtube.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

It is the rigid and intolerant attitudes of some Christians I have read on KP that I find difficult to deal with. There is never a neutral area and no desire to finding something to agree on.

I wonder if some were my neighbors if I could be myself without fear of their holy retribution raining down.


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bless your heart or God bless you.
> 
> Just a word to the wise. In recent days some of the Christian right have been saying "bless you heart" or "God bless you" to myself and others on the left. I was told from a reliable source and then researched it online also and found out that this is what these "devout" folks are really telling you;
> 
> ...


Now that's funny, Cheeky!!! I'm born and raised in the South and have lived here all my life, and you are so right!
"Bless your heart" covers so many things, as do others like "Well I swan" and "As I live and breathe" or "Do tell" and "Well, I never".... they just kind of keep the conversation jogging along without ruffling any one's feathers, in hopes of getting better data later.

DO NOT ENGAGE...
Remember West, Texas
Notre Dame defeats Purdue tonight...


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## midwegian (Apr 26, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Meet the Secret $256 Million Bank for Right Wing Causes
> 
> Posted on Sep 13, 2013
> 
> ...


Many thanks for the article, Al! I do boycott all Koch products and, believe me, that shortens my grocery list drastically. I've switched to cotton rags, Scott Tissue, 2nd hand clothing, a 24 year old car, and clean w/ vinegar, borax, fels naptha I am so determined to not line Koch pockets.

Do Not Engage...
Remember West, Texas...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

midwegian said:


> Many thanks for the article, Al! I do boycott all Koch products and, believe me, that shortens my grocery list drastically. I've switched to cotton rags, Scott Tissue, 2nd hand clothing, a 24 year old car, and clean w/ vinegar, borax, fels naptha I am so determined to not line Koch pockets.
> 
> Do Not Engage...
> Remember West, Texas...


Such a propaganda machine!
BTW, I live with a Purdue grad, but he doesn't really follow them that much anymore.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Cheeky.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I received this PM today and am posting it with the consent of both people who made comments to each other in it. Unlike others, I would never post another's PM without their consent. When you send any one on KP a Private Message that is exactly what the sender trusts that it will be. Sadly, once again this is being done by the right wing extremists on KP who also claim they are Christians. You all know who I am talking about. I totally expect that these same people will show up and say I made this up but sadly I did not. Their disgusting behavior is being felt all over KP and they are getting a very bad reputation. That is one reason our Liberal group is growing because people are tired of them. I have been angry with them, felt sorry for them and laughed at them. Soon I will feel absolutely nothing for them. Personally, I would rather have someone feel some emotion towards me than to no longer care but that is the direction I am heading in. Unless a miracle occurs and they realize that the rest of the human race is out here and they are not running the show I wash my hands of them just as I do with dirt. They brought it all down on themselves.
> 
> This is what the original PM said and the reply. The person who sent this to me. When she says to laugh because it is a joke this is in reply to the friend.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Indeed. I wouldn't wish for anything else.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> isn't it a pleasure to know that after this life we will be joining likeminded people where-ever and shall celebrate good company?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's a friend(s) respect.



Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty and Friends
> 
> we had a most pleasant Lunch with dear longtime neighbors. We look out for each other, helped raising their children and took care of their animals and they of ours when any of us went away. They are good Christians and I want to underline good. They know how we view Religion and they NEVER EVER mention Christianity, God, Hell, Heaven or Devil. Isn't that how it should be? No shouting, flaunting one's godliness and simply accepting other views with grace. We love them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Political suicide with a little help from their friends. Prepare to speak out and flood Washington with signed petitions. 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Cheeky Blighter said:


> In the past few weeks, the press has started reporting something outrageous about this fall's budget negotiations: "The [Republican] party's top priority is to cut safety-net programs like Social Security and Medicare."
> John Boehner and extremist Republicans are about to take our economy hostage again. He's demanding extreme cuts in exchange for simply agreeing to raise the debt ceiling -- i.e. paying the bills Congress already accumulated.
> Many people havent heard much about Republican threats to cut Social Security lately. That is by design.
> This is a dangerous fight, and it's going to play out over the next month -- when Republicans would love nothing more than for the public to focus on international affairs instead of deeply unpopular cuts to this program that we should be expanding.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it would be good to boycott all such consumer products. First step would be a complete list of products to avoid. Maybe we can make a dent in their pocket change.



alcameron said:


> Meet the Secret $256 Million Bank for Right Wing Causes
> 
> Posted on Sep 13, 2013
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They are just that kind of folks.



GWPlver said:


> Saw this in our newspaper. Ahhhh....drives me nuts!! Why do people feel the need to control what others learn.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They will send the child to their church, of course.



GWPlver said:


> Good thought, but what if a child doesn't have a "religious" leader?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too, Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> What I find amusing is people chastise you and post "you only say that because you are hiding behind an internet site. you would not say that if you were talking face to face." Now that is entirely correct. If I posted what I would say in a face to face situation, using the local vernacular, I would be permanently banned from this site and my words would probably make your hair curl. Let me see........poyic, yargmts, jyraaib. Those are not words they are the first letters of words. yes, like my fellow countrymen, I can use colourful language, and often do.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

midwegian said:


> Now that's funny, Cheeky!!! I'm born and raised in the South and have lived here all my life, and you are so right!
> "Bless your heart" covers so many things, as do others like "Well I swan" and "As I live and breathe" or "Do tell" and "Well, I never".... they just kind of keep the conversation jogging along without ruffling any one's feathers, in hopes of getting better data later.
> 
> DO NOT ENGAGE...
> ...


My mother's soul is happy. Notre Dame won.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

midwegian said:


> Many thanks for the article, Al! I do boycott all Koch products and, believe me, that shortens my grocery list drastically. I've switched to cotton rags, Scott Tissue, 2nd hand clothing, a 24 year old car, and clean w/ vinegar, borax, fels naptha I am so determined to not line Koch pockets.
> 
> Do Not Engage...
> Remember West, Texas...


alcameron
Ever wondered why the Koch Brothers are being so secretive about their Religion? SUPER SECRETIVE in fact. Perhaps they worship the new global economy GREED and nothing else. Quite plausible looking at their behavior.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

For me, it probably wouldn't mean a change of language. which would become very colorful face to face. I might also have to wave my hands around and would be temprted to jump up and down, too.

Looks like you got your ice cream hat set up as your avatar. I saw that one when I googled unusual women's hats. There are some pretty unusual hatsout there.


EveMCooke said:


> What I find amusing is people chastise you and post "you only say that because you are hiding behind an internet site. you would not say that if you were talking face to face." Now that is entirely correct. If I posted what I would say in a face to face situation, using the local vernacular, I would be permanently banned from this site and my words would probably make your hair curl. Let me see........poyic, yargmts, jyraaib. Those are not words they are the first letters of words. yes, like my fellow countrymen, I can use colourful language, and often do.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Hello Friends.
I am enjoying my travels towards my new Home. Going places I normally would not visit.
It is a pleasure not to be on a time restraint.
Everything will be in place when I get home. 
Lovely to take my meals whenever and where-ever.
Choosing Hotels with a lovely view and close to culture.
Meeting lots of very nice People.
Hotels are well occupied.

Going for a stroll now to have no guilt when going for Lunch.

Have a nice day.
See you sometime soon again.
Ingried


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> For me, it probably wouldn't mean a change in language, only which would become very colorful face to face. I might also have to wave my hands around and would be temprted to jump up and down, too.
> 
> Looks like you got your ice cream hat set up as your avatar. I saw that one when I googled unusual women's hats. There are some pretty unusual hatsout there.


Love your new avatar, Maid.

And a long-overdue thanks, too, to all the lefty ladies and their beautiful hats! The show of support warms my heart.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Hello Friends.
> I am enjoying my travels towards my new Home. Going places I normally would not visit.
> It is a pleasure not to be on a time restraint.
> Everything will be in place when I get home.
> ...


I'm green with envy, Ingried--sounds like you're having a wonderful time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Yay, Eve! Beautiful, nummy yummy hat!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Love your new avatar, Maid.
> And a long-overdue thanks, too, to all the lefty ladies and their beautiful hats! The show of support warms my heart.


Glad you like my new hat. If you google "unusual women's hats" you will see some real doozies.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Glad you like my new hat. If you google "unusual women's hats" you will see some real doozies.


Thanks Maid, I will check it out. Time for a change!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Yay, Eve! Beautiful, nummy yummy hat!


Love yours too. Way to go girl, you look great.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Glad you like my new hat. If you google "unusual women's hats" you will see some real doozies.


Love the hat, but be careful you are not henpecked or become a bird brain. joking of course.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like a lovely respite. Renew yourself after this time of stress and you'll be off like a rocket.



Ingried said:


> Hello Friends.
> I am enjoying my travels towards my new Home. Going places I normally would not visit.
> It is a pleasure not to be on a time restraint.
> Everything will be in place when I get home.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was worried about odd-shaped spots on your shoulder.



EveMCooke said:


> Love the hat, but be careful you are not henpecked or become a bird brain. joking of course.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I was worried about odd-shaped spots on your shoulder.


So far, so good. The bird is stuffed, so very quiet. Since I live with my mother, I suppose you could say I'm henpecked. I prefer to say I am but her humble slave, though I have been vacationing and travelling for about four (five?) weeks, and am starting my slow progress home.

I will be passing regally through various cities and towns. The peasants have been alerted and will be out to cheer me on. i may not have enough Mardi Gras beads to throw. I'll have to keep an eye on the supply. I will also have to get a more impressive hat.

The best, more long term good news is that my mother is using a walker all the time now and is feeling and actually is a lot safer. She and my brother are figuring out where some grab bars should go so, all in all, I am very encouraged.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Today is the 50th Anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, AL.

Remember: 
Addie Mae Collins, 14
Cynthia Wesley, 14
Carole Robertson, 14
Denise McNair, 11


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad you're enjoying your progress. Glad to hear about your Mom too.



MaidInBedlam said:


> So far, so good. The bird is stuffed, so very quiet. Since I live with my mother, I suppose you could say I'm henpecked. I prefer to say I am but her humble slave, though I have been vacationing and travelling for about four (five?) weeks, and am starting my slow progress home.
> 
> I will be passing regally through various cities and towns. The peasants have been alerted and will be out to cheer me on. i may not have enough Mardi Gras beads to throw. I'll have to keep an eye on the supply. I will also have to get a more impressive hat.
> 
> The best, more long term good news is that my mother is using a walker all the time now and is feeling and actually is a lot safer. She and my brother are figuring out where some grab bars should go so, all in all, I am very encouraged.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This bombing should always remind us how horrible man can become.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Today is the 50th Anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, AL.
> 
> Remember:
> Addie Mae Collins, 14
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> This bombing should always remind us how horrible man can become.


damemary
where was God? These were innocent children.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Today is the 50th Anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing in Birmingham, AL.
> 
> Remember:
> Addie Mae Collins, 14
> ...


MaidInBedlam
Thank you for the pictures of the murdered children. Much worse than Benghazi will ever be. Murdered by our hateful Citizens and they would love to go back to those days. Just listen to Ted Cruz, he says it loud and clear be endorsing Jesse Helms and would like to have 100 more like him in Washington.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> Thank you for the pictures of the murdered children. Much worse than Benghazi will ever be. Murdered by our hateful Citizens and they would love to go back to those days. Just listen to Ted Cruz, he says it loud and clear be endorsing Jesse Helms and would like to have 100 more like him in Washington.


What else could be the connection between Ted Cruz and Jesse Helms? Other than something insane.

Which reminds me. Please let's continue this conversation and pay no mind to the lunatic above.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What else could be the connection between Ted Cruz and Jesse Helms? Other than something insane.
> 
> Which reminds me. Please let's continue this conversation and pay no mind to the lunatic above.


Do you ever notice how the radical right is afraid to expose themselves to main stream media? They're afraid they might get swayed by facts. What in the heck is "westernjournalism?" I looked it up. There is no journalism there.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Ever wondered why the Koch Brothers are being so secretive about their Religion? SUPER SECRETIVE in fact. Perhaps they worship the new global economy GREED and nothing else. Quite plausible looking at their behavior.


The only thing I could find about their religion is that "some of them" reported being Catholic.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What else could be the connection between Ted Cruz and Jesse Helms? Other than something insane.
> 
> Which reminds me. Please let's continue this conversation and pay no mind to the lunatic above.


Poor Purl
Yes, let us continue to expose the simple minds. Thank you for being on board. We have come a long way and have far to go and cannot step back even an inch. Too many People suffered for all too long and many gave their Life and we can never forget that. There are supposed to be hundreds of Gods, where are they and what are they up to? Nothing good obviously or there would not be so much carnage in the World. By the way lunatic is so fitting. Watch when there is a full Moon, it gets "better". Huck


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's my favorite guy again
I really like what he says a DECENT society would do.
Robert Reich

Syria and the Reality at Home in America
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2013
While all eyes are on Syria and Americas response, the real economy in which most Americans live is sputtering.

More than four years after the recession officially ended, 11.5 million Americans are unemployed, many of them for years. Nearly 4 million have given up looking for work altogether. If they were actively looking, todays unemployment rate would be 9.5 percent instead of 7.3 percent.

The share of the population working or seeking a job is the lowest in thirty-five years. The unemployment rate among high-school dropouts is 11 percent; for blacks, 12.6 percent. More than one in five American children face hunger, according to new data from the U.S. Department of Agriculture. 

And the median wage keeps dropping, adjusted for inflation. Incomes for all but the top 1 percent are below where they were at the start of the economic recovery in 2009.

A decent society would put people to work  even if this required more government spending on roads, bridges, ports, pipelines, parks and schools.

A decent society would lift the minimum wage, expand the Earned Income Tax Credit (a wage subsidy), and provide food stamps and housing assistance, so that no family with a full-time worker has to live in poverty.

We can afford this minimal level of decency.

Deficit hawks in both parties dont want you to know this but the federal deficit as a proportion of the total economy is shrinking fast: Its on track to be only 4 percent by the end of September, when the fiscal year ends. The non-partisan Congressional Budget Office predicts it will be only 3.4 percent in the fiscal year starting October 1.

To put this into perspective, consider that the average ratio of the deficit to the GDP over the past 30 years has been 3.3 percent. So the deficit is barely a problem at all. (Were still projected to have large deficits starting 10 years from now because of all the aging boomers needing health care.) 

Yet while attention is focused on Syria, food stamps for the nations poor are being cut. House Republicans would eliminate food stamps for more than 800,000 Americans who now receive them but still do not get enough to eat or have only a barely adequate diet. 

Even if the Democrats prevent these draconian cuts, food stamp benefits will still be reduced in November, when a provision in the 2009 stimulus bill expires.

While attention is focused on Syria, funds for the nations poorest schools are being slashed. Teachers are still being let go. Classrooms are more crowded than ever. The sequester will drain even more funds after October 1. 

While attention is focused on Syria, low-income housing is disappearing. Funding for housing vouchers has already been cut by $854 million this year, with the result that half of all public housing authorities have stopped issuing new vouchers  even though the percentage of households most in need of assistance has grown by 19 percent since 2009. The cuts scheduled to begin October 1 will be even more severe.

While attention is focused on Syria, Americas rich are growing even richer. A single years income of one of the ten richest Americans could buy housing for every homeless person in America for an entire year. (This calculation is based on a typical day last winter, when over 633,000 people were homeless, and the typical monthly rental cost of a unit with single room occupancy of $558 per month.)

But we are not talking about any of this. We are not debating whats happening to our nation. We are not creating jobs for the long-term unemployed. We are not raising the minimum wage, expanding the EITC, or providing enough food stamps to feed Americas poor children or keep working Americans out of poverty. We are not improving the nations poorest schools or providing enough low-income housing to keep destitute families off the nations streets.

We are not reforming our tax code or making college more affordable or reforming our brutal immigration system. We are not addressing the widening gap between a few at the top who are doing better than ever and a larger number below who are sinking. We are not getting big money out of politics.

We are paralyzed at home  as we turn our attention to a potential quagmire abroad. This is the great tragedy of our time.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> On September 1, Egypts largest newspaper had a screaming headline: OBAMA IS A MEMBER OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD!
> 
> The article goes on to say that Khairat El-Shater, the number two man in the Muslim Brotherhood hierarchynow in custody by the Egyptian militaryhas evidence that will put Obama is prison.
> 
> ...


joeysomma
you forgot to mention the Guillotines the White House ordered to be ready for the sxxx you keep inventing. Your sources of information are getting weirder by the hour. Are they spiking the Communion Wine with LSD? Something out of the ordinary is taking place. Oh, perhaps fear is being driven into you by those who want an other buck for your ride to Heaven. The collection plates must be brimming with green backs.

Remember 4 children murdered 50 years ago by US Citizens just because they were black. 
Remember also the horrible Jesse Helms who Ted Cruz idolizes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you ever notice how the radical right is afraid to expose themselves to main stream media? They're afraid they might get swayed by facts. What in the heck is "westernjournalism?" I looked it up. There is no journalism there.


I've noticed that frequently. The stories they believe about Benghazi came from an anonymous chain email with a forged signature - clearly a reliable source.

Out of curiosity, bc I'd never looked there, I read a few msgs on Denim and Pearls or whatever it's called. After a few pats on each other's backs, the subject of Obama came up, and none of them could figure out where his money came from. Not from being a community organizer, not from his parents, etc. Not one of them could come up with the obvious source: two incredibly popular best-sellers and a Nobel Prize that paid almost a million and a half. These probably never were mentioned in those strange publications they seem to read. I guess they thought he was a very successful crack dealer.

And now I never need to look at D&P again.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> alcameron
> Ever wondered why the Koch Brothers are being so secretive about their Religion? SUPER SECRETIVE in fact. Perhaps they worship the new global economy GREED and nothing else. Quite plausible looking at their behavior.


I have a friend who gave me a can of spray paint and a stencil of the word GREED for a birthday present. We went out one night and stenciled it on the pavement of a Shell gas station. Just a few days after the Valdeze wreck in Alaska. More of my outrageous behavior.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've noticed that frequently. The stories they believe about Benghazi came from an anonymous chain email with a forged signature - clearly a reliable source.
> 
> Out of curiosity, bc I'd never looked there, I read a few msgs on Denim and Pearls or whatever it's called. After a few pats on each other's backs, the subject of Obama came up, and none of them could figure out where his money came from. Not from being a community organizer, not from his parents, etc. Not one of them could come up with the obvious source: two incredibly popular best-sellers and a Nobel Prize that paid almost a million and a half. These probably never were mentioned in those strange publications they seem to read. I guess they thought he was a very successful crack dealer.
> 
> And now I never need to look at D&P again.


Poor Purl
since I do not have a Childcare License I cannot legally go into D&P but from what others report, the Kids are in dire need of adult instructors. I do wish them some happiness while lingering on Earth because that promised place ain't going to provide it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I have a friend who gave me a can of spray paint and a stencil of the word GREED for a birthday present. We went out one night and stenciled it on the pavement of a Shell gas station. Just a few days after the Valdeze wreck in Alaska. More of my outrageous behavior.


peacegoddess
next time you venture out, give me a ring I shall be with you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I have a friend who gave me a can of spray paint and a stencil of the word GREED for a birthday present. We went out one night and stenciled it on the pavement of a Shell gas station. Just a few days after the Valdeze wreck in Alaska. More of my outrageous behavior.


Heehee, that's hilarious! Your friends sure know you well!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> next time you venture out, give me a ring I shall be with you.


It is a date as soon as i can find the stencil. I will make a new one!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's my favorite guy again
> I really like what he says a DECENT society would do.
> 
> Syria and the Reality at Home in America
> FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 6, 2013


Yes, Robert Reich, who appears to be a very decent person.

The hat in your avatar looks like a Hannukah Menorah, San Francisco style. Interesting concept.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What else could be the connection between Ted Cruz and Jesse Helms? Other than something insane.
> 
> Which reminds me. Please let's continue this conversation and pay no mind to the lunatic above.


I agree, Purl. It staggers the mind to see people really buy into such outrageous ideas but hatred is a powerful thing and the fuel that is used to keep these fires burning. The new GOP are a bunch of fanatics and nothing more and I hope they will be stopped from doing even more damage to our country.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> since I do not have a Childcare License I cannot legally go into D&P but from what others report, the Kids are in dire need of adult instructors. I do wish them some happiness while lingering on Earth because that promised place ain't going to provide it.


Huckleberry,
I actually *do* have a Childcare License - not exactly, but the State of New York has checked me out twice and determined that I have never been accused of child abuse. But I'm never going to that place again, at least not without the PeptoBismol. I am very easily nauseated.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

These were not adults who chose jobs putting them in harm's way. These were children going to Sunday school.

Someone hated the color of their skin so much that they felt justified in murdering them. Many never repented this hatred. And the GOP is considering nominating a man for President 50 years later who proclaims we need 100 more like Jesse Helms.

Shame GOP. Shame those who support you.



Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> Thank you for the pictures of the murdered children. Much worse than Benghazi will ever be. Murdered by our hateful Citizens and they would love to go back to those days. Just listen to Ted Cruz, he says it loud and clear be endorsing Jesse Helms and would like to have 100 more like him in Washington.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good God. Have you no shame?



joeysomma said:


> On September 1, Egypts largest newspaper had a screaming headline: OBAMA IS A MEMBER OF THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD!
> 
> The article goes on to say that Khairat El-Shater, the number two man in the Muslim Brotherhood hierarchynow in custody by the Egyptian militaryhas evidence that will put Obama is prison.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the reminder Purl. Back on the wagon. Ain't easy.



Poor Purl said:


> What else could be the connection between Ted Cruz and Jesse Helms? Other than something insane.
> 
> Which reminds me. Please let's continue this conversation and pay no mind to the lunatic above.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I agree, Purl. It staggers the mind to see people really buy into such outrageous ideas but hatred is a powerful thing and the fuel that is used to keep these fires burning. The new GOP are a bunch of fanatics and nothing more and I hope they will be stopped from doing even more damage to our country.


Cheeky, hatred is powerful among those who know (or at least believe) that they are hated. Unfortunately, these people have enough money to make them hard to stop. While we worry about poverty, hunger, racism, and other pleasant things, they are simply running around moving the goal-posts so that they can win elections. It's been working for the most part.

PS - your current hat is very creepy. I hope that's the effect you're looking for.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey Al this was the Friday show on Democracy Now. With our guy Robert.
FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2013 
Inequality for All: Robert Reich Warns Record Income Gap Is Undermining Our Democracy

The American Way of Poverty: As Inequality Hits Record High, Sasha Abramsky on the Forgotten Poor

"We Need to Make a Ruckus": Robert Reich Hails Occupy for Exposing Concentration of Wealth and Power

Five years ago this weekend, the Wall Street giant Lehman Brothers collapsed triggering the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. Today, the divide between the 1 percent and the 99 percent is as great as ever. According to one recent study, the top 1 percent has captured about 95 percent of the income gains since the recession ended. Since the recovery, almost all of the gains have gone to the very, very top. People who are in the top 1 percent are doing even better than they did before the Great Recession, better than they have done since 1928, says former Labor Secretary Robert Reich. Most Americans are on a downward escalator. Median wage in the United States, adjusted for inflation, keeps on dropping. Reich is the focus of the new film, Inequality for All. In this interview, he also talks about Syria, the second anniversary of Occupy Wall Street on September 17, Obamas healthcare plan and Milton Friedmans connection to the Pinochet dictatorship in Chile.

TRANSCRIPT

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AMY GOODMAN: Five years ago this weekend, the Wall Street giant Lehman Brothers collapsed, triggering the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression. At the time, Lehman was the fourth-largest bank on Wall Street. It collapsed under the weight of subprime, mortgage back securities tied to the crumbling U.S. housing market. Five years after the financial crisis began, millions are still suffering, but Wall Street is not. While next week marks the second anniversary of occupy Wall Street, the divide between the 1% and the 99% is as great as ever. According to one recent study, the top 1% has captured about 95% of the income gains since the recession ended. Meanwhile, the top 10% of earners last year to more than half the countries total income, the highest level recorded since the government began collecting relevant data a century ago. Today were joined by former Secretary of labor and renowned economist Robert Reich. He is the focus of a new film called, "Inequality for All."

ROBERT REICH: The thing you ought to know about this Mini-Cooper, it is small. Me and my car. We are in proportion. My name is Robert Reich. I was secretary of labor under Bill Clinton, before that, the Carter Administration, before that, I was a special assistant to Abraham Lincoln. Of all developed nations, The United States has the most unequal distribution of income. Were surging toward even greater inequality. 1928 and 2007 become the peak years for income concentration. It looks like a suspension bridge.
INTERVIEWEE: Last year we made $36,000.
INTERVIEWEE: I probably make $50,000 a year working 70 hours a week.
ROBERT REICH: The middle class is struggling. The people occasionally say to me, what nation does it better? The answer is, the United States. After World War II, the economy boomed. You had very low inequality.
BILL OREILLY: You know Robert Reich?
FOX NEWS GUEST: I do indeed.
BILL OREILLY: He is a communist.
ROBERT REICH: When I was a kid the bigger boys would pick on me. I think it changed my life. I had to protect people from the people who would beat them up economically. Who is actually looking out for the American worker? The answer is nobody. Workers dont have a power if they dont have a voice. Their wages and benefits start eroding. We are losing equal opportunity in America. Anyone of you who feels cynical, just consider where we have been.

AMY GOODMAN: The trailer for the new film "Inequality for All" featuring Robert Reich. It opens in theaters September 27th. Robert Reich joins us here in New York. He served as labor secretary under President Lincoln  under President Clinton and now is a professor at the University of California, Berkeley. Time Magazine named him one of the most ten most effective cabinet secretaries of the last century. He has written twelve books including "Aftershock: The Next Economy & Americas Future" and "Beyond Outrage." Expanded edition, what has gone wrong with our economy and our democracy and how to fix it. Welcome back to _Democracy Now! _

ROBERT REICH: Hi Amy. You know, I am getting so old that my students really do believe I was a special assistant to Abraham Lincoln. Those were tough years, I tell them, and they have stopped getting the joke.

AMY GOODMAN: They have heard of Abraham Lincoln.

ROBERT REICH: They have heard of Abraham Lincoln. Thats right.

AMY GOODMAN: So, youre a good teacher, then.

ROBERT REICH: But look, they dont have  my students, who are very idealistic, and they do want to change the world, they, in their lives dont have very much of a memory of government or even of a society that we are a part of expanding equal opportunity, changing the structure of power. They dont remember as I do the 1960s.

AMY GOODMAN: Lets talk about this fifth anniversary of the collapse of Lehman Brothers, the beginning of the recession and who has profited in this last five years. It has certainly not been bad for everyone.

&#729;*ROBERT REICH:* Oh, no. In fact, Emmanuel Saez, my colleague at Berkeley who has really done the pioneering work on determining who has got what and looked at income tax records, hes just came out with a new study showing that since the recovery, almost all the gains have gone to the very, very top. People who are in the top 1% are doing better than they did even before the great recession, better than they have done since 1928. Remember what happened after 1928, we had a great crash. Remember after 2007, which was the last peak in terms of inequality, we had another crash. We can get back to why there is a relationship there, but most Americans are on a downward escalator. The median wage in the United States adjusted for inflation keeps on dropping.

AMY GOODMAN: You use the image of a suspension bridge to talk about inequality in the film.

ROBERT REICH: Because, up until this new study, shows that to 2012 actually is the new peak. The old peaks were 1928 and 2007. Which is interesting because in 1929 and 2008 we had crashes. And I think it is not coincidental. Because when so much of the income and wealth go to the top, the rest simply dont have the purchasing power to keep the economy going at full employment.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about whats happened to everyone else.

ROBERT REICH: Whats happening to everybody else is not only wages eroding and a very large number of discouraged workers, who basically, are never going to be able to find jobs, but economic insecurity. Most Americans today, even if they have jobs, even if the jobs pay fairly well, are much more insecure than Americans have ever been at work before, at least in living memory. Because we have a huge number of contingent workers, huge number of part-time workers, huge number of workers who cant know what their paychecks are going to be because theyre paid on a contingency fee, bonuses, working hours, billable hours. That means they cannot plan and have to live, to some extent, from paycheck to paycheck. That insecurity, coupled with declining wages, coupled with more and more concentration of income and wealth at the top, has led to an economy that is very vulnerable and a democracy that is also very vulnerable, because all of that money at the top is being transformed into political power every day.

AMY GOODMAN: Political power. I want to refer to Syria right now. It is something you also have written about, Syria and the reality at home in America. Aside from the moral and strategic arguments against the war or a strike on Syria by the United States, can easily talk about what the cost of war mean?

ROBERT REICH: Every time the United States has got into this tinderbox in the Middle East, for reasons that we can debate, whether it is good or not, there have been ancillary, lets call them, ancillary consequences. Civilians are killed. You cant prevent civilians from being killed. There is a rise in anti-American sentiment. There is a rise in terrorism. We deflect attention from what is going on here in the United States in terms of widening inequality, what needs to be done here in America. We use resources that could otherwise be used on our poor on infrastructure, on education. I am old enough to remember Lyndon Johnsons and the great society ending on the shoals of Vietnam, another Civil War, in effect, where we were told exactly what, ironically, what John Kerry is saying about Syria. American resolve is at stake, our credibility is at stake. If we dont do this, our enemies are going to be emboldened. He is using the same words, ironically, that were used by McNamara in the 1960s when John Kerry was 

AMY GOODMAN: The former secretary of defense under Lyndon Johnson.

ROBERT REICH: The former Secretary of Defense, when John Kerry was protesting the Vietnam War. I hope this irony is not lost on Kerry or anybody else.

AMY GOODMAN: Chuck Hagel, who opposed the Iraq war, our current Defense Secretary, when asked what will be the cost of these strikes, because very few people are talking about the actual economic costs. He said something like tens of millions of dollars.

ROBERT REICH: Look, these things tend to escalate out of control. We know that. We have been there before. I mean in living memory of most of us. What Assad has apparently done, and Im assuming Assad was responsible for the chemical  the use of chemical weapons, is abhorrent, absolutely abhorrent. There has to be some world response. But, to assume that the United States is the only worlds policeman and that missiles are going to actually be the best response as opposed to economic sanctions or freezing assets or doing any number of things, the most powerful economic force in the world can do, that is the United States, I think is the height of folly at this particular point in time.

AMY GOODMAN: We are talking to former Labor Secretary Robert Reich. Now, when you were the Secretary of Labor under President Clinton, interestingly, especially in light of the NSA scandal today and how the Obama administration is reeling from all of the leaks around U.S. government spying on Americans, you proposed cutting the CIA budget in half and giving the money to inner-city schools.

ROBERT REICH: I did, and I was making a kind of play on the notion of U.S. intelligence because I just sat through a briefing where the CIA and the intelligence committee said they needed more money, and I said  and I was slightly tongue-in-cheek, but I was quite serious, Amy. I said, if were really concerned about U.S. intelligence, the most important intelligence we have are the brains and capacities of our kids as they face their adulthood and their futures, and we need better schools, particularly in poor communities, and we need to spend a lot of money and were spending far more on the wrong kind of intelligence. I didnt get a very positive response, lets put it that way.

AMY GOODMAN: Were talking to Robert Reich. He is the subject of a new film. Its called "Inequality for All." He teaches, now, economics at the University of California Berkeley. Was the Labor Secretary under President Clinton. We will be back with him in a minute.

AMY GOODMAN: Former Labor Secretary Robert Reich is our guest today. I want to turn to another clip from the new film, "Inequality for All" which will be released around the country September 27th. Here Bob Reich explains how he got interested in issues of economic justice.

ROBERT REICH: When I was a kid, the bigger boys would pick on me. That is what you did. Thats what is done. So I got an idea that I would make alliances with older boys. Just one or two who would be my protectors. The summer when I was about ten, one of the older boys who I depended on to kind of be a protector whose name was Michael Schwerner, in the summer of 1964, I learned that Mickey had been in Mississippi registering voters and he and two other people who had been with him registering voters were tortured and murdered. And when I heard that my protector had been murdered by the real bullies, I think it changed my life. I had to protect people from the bullies, the people who would beat them up economically or the people who would subject them and their families to real harm. Because if you dont have a voice, if you dont have power, if youre vulnerable economically in society, you dont have anybody to protect you.
AMY GOODMAN: Thats Robert Reich featured in "Inequality for All" talking about what inspires you. This is the 50th anniversary, of course, of the 1963 March on Washington as well. Talk more about your experience.

ROBERT REICH: Well, like many people who are my age, the 1960s were the formative era. 
We were involved in the Civil Rights Movement, even peripherally, the anti-Vietnam War movement. I spent a lot of time organizing young people for Eugene McCarthy; went clean for Gene in 1968. But, out of all of that came a sense of efficacy, a sense that we really could change the world. There had been a civil rights act, a voting rights act, we ended the Vietnam War and there was also an assumption that I shared with many people that, of course, you would spend much of your life working to improve society. Even if that was not going to be your official vocation or your job. Still, that was part of your work, part of your lifes work. It wasnt just me. There were really millions of us. I think that assumption may be different now. One of the great victories of the right, particularly the radical right, has been to spread such cynicism about the capacity of the country to change and generate social justice that many people just have given up. They basically I dont want anything to do with politics, it is all corrupt, I dont want anything to do with that kind of focus on social movements at that scale. They will go nowhere. But that, you see, that kind of cynicism about our politics and our government cedes everything, cedes control to the money interests. And that is exactly what they want.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what has just happened in California? Governor Brown says he will sign this legislation around increasing the minimum wage. It will be the highest in the country, and yet the backlash that we have seen?

ROBERT REICH: Well, look, 85% of Americans support a minimum wage increase. If you just kept the minimum wage we had a 1968 steady, adjusted for inflation, it would be $10.40 right now. If you adjusted the minimum wage or the productivity improvements we have had since the late 1960s, the minimum wage would be over $15 an hour. Martin Luther King in 1963, that was a march for jobs and justice, and one of the planks was moving the minimum wage to two dollars an hour, which, todays dollars, would be well over $14, in fact, by some measure about $15 and hour. So, this is not out of our tradition. This is not a radical notion. This is what it would be, all other things being equal, and if you put more money peoples pockets, they can turn around and buy stuff, which means more jobs, not fewer jobs.

AMY GOODMAN: Lets go back to another clip of "Inequality for All." The focus here is problems of American workers today.

ROBERT REICH: Contrary to popular mythology, mobilization and technology havent really reduced the number of jobs available to Americans. These transformations reduced their pay. It is not just that wages are stagnating, but, when you take into consideration rising cost, the rising costs of rents or homes dramatically increasing costs of health care. The rising costs of childcare and also the rising costs of higher education, rising much faster than inflation. Take all of these into consideration and you find it is much worse than just stagnating wages, it is basically middle-class families, often with two wage earners, working harder and harder and harder and getting nowhere.
AMY GOODMAN: An excerpt of "Inequality for All," which is being released in two weeks. Bob Reich, what about health care? What about the costs of health care? What about the costs of Obamacare, the cost of what Medicare for all would be, the cost of the system we have today?

ROBERT REICH: Well, look, it is the most inefficient and costly system that any advanced country has, yet we have the highest infant mortality, the lowest level of  even in terms of lifespans we dont do as well as many other countries. We ought to have a single payer plan. We will eventually have a single payer. It is the only rational direction to go in. Everybody admits this. Even doctors and medical professionals and heads of medical institutions I sit with and talk with, privately they say, yes, were going to have to go to single-payer. They just dont say it publicly. The fact we didnt even have a public option in the Affordable Care Act is absurd. On the other hand, though, Amy, the Affordable Care Act is a beginning. Lets be clear. This is something that Bill Clinton couldnt get, Franklin D. Roosevelt couldnt get, Harry Truman couldnt get, John F. Kennedy couldnt get. I mean, it is at least a major step in the right direction. And the Republicans are apoplectic about it. Theyre threatening to not even to raise the debt ceiling unless we roll back or unless they get rid of and repeal the Affordable Care Act. I think most Americans, once they see the act working and once they enjoy the benefits, will be incredibly supportive, which is exactly what the opponents are worried about.

AMY GOODMAN: Why do you think the media has not been  I mean the media is supposed to be separate from the Government, from the insurance industry has not been able to convey what these costs are and to actually show exactly where the U.S. stands in the world so people could make a rational decision.

ROBERT REICH: Well, you say the media is supposed to be separate from the private sector and separate from the insurance industries and everything else. I wish I could say with a straight face that Americas news media and news outlets were not influenced at all by advertisers or by insurance companies and drug companies. Drug companies advertise like mad. Im not sure that is the case. I think that Americans have not really had and been given a clear idea of the absurdities and unnecessary costs of our health care system. I mean prevention is and should be the rule of game. But, it is all a matter of fee-for-service and everyone is inside living off that fee-for-service likes that way, but weve got to move to a system that awards healthy outcomes.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to another anniversary. Next Tuesday marks the second anniversary of Occupy Wall Street. Im playing a clip now of Robert Reich addressing and occupy demonstration in California at the University of Berkeley in 2011.

ROBERT REICH: Because of Occupy L.A. and the Occupy Movement around America, this country is beginning to discuss an issue and a set of issues it has avoided discussing for years. And that is the increasing concentration of income and wealth and political power at the very top of this country, and what that has sent to the economy and what it has done to our democracy.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Bob Reich speaking in California two years ago. What about the significance of the Occupy Movement, the coining of the term 99%, and where are we today?

ROBERT REICH: Well, on the positive side, the Occupy Movement has had a huge effect, putting this issue front and center; page one. A lot of discussion, reframing the debate so that people understand that it is not the middle class against the poor, it is basically a small group of Americans at the very top, the 400 richest Americans  400 of them have more wealth than the bottom 150 million of us put together. The heirs of Walmart, just the Walmart heirs who own a huge chunk of Walmarts stock, they have more wealth than the bottom 40% of Americans put together. This is mind-boggling, and the Occupy Movement showed America what was happening. Unfortunately, on the negative side, Occupy did not organize itself and discipline itself and develop politically strategic ways of effectuating many of the objections it had. And so that once the mayors and universities began clearing out these encampments, there was not the kind of organization thats needed for a sustained, long-term social movement. And one thing we have learned over the years, Amy, whether it is the Labor Movement or the Womens Movement or the Civil Rights Movement or any other movement, it takes a long time, it takes a great discipline, it takes strategy, it takes politics, and it takes patience.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to read a critique of your theories put forward by Paul Roderick Gregory of the Hoover Institution who recently wrote an article for Forbes called "Robert Reichs F Minus in Economics: False Facts, False Theories." In it, Gregory writes, "Reich, a former Labor Secretary displays a glaring ignorance of how markets work, even labor markets. In his world, big corporations convene behind closed doors to decide how much they deign to give to their workers after they have taken their often obscene profits. He does not understand that wages are generally set in markets, not in smoke filled corporate board rooms. He displays and even greater lack of appreciation of profits as signals to guide resource allocation as sources of investment finance. To Reich, profits seem always to be too high, wages too low. I would like to ask him how many workers would be employed if businesses earned no profit and labor got everything?" Well, respond, Robert Reich.

ROBERT REICH: Well, thats the typical right-wing argument. The Hoover Institute, where this fellow is, and Forbes Magazine, that calls itself a capitalist tool, I mean, theyre putting out this stuff and have put it out for years. This is not new. The fact of the matter is, is that one of the major ways in which an American corporations have shown huge profits over the last two years is by keeping payroll down, by squeezing wages. This is well documented. I dont have  this is not my own personal view, Amy. This is  we know it. There is abundant evidence and abundant proof of this. And this is why, in part, the top 1% has done so well because they are the ones who get a lot of their income out of the stock market, where as everybody else, the only assets that most other people have, if they have any assets at all, is the value of their homes. And home values are the things that really took a huge hit after 2008. They are slowly beginning to come back. But, many people are still underwater. So, if you dont look at this reality, if you dont look at the asset base of the wealthy versus the asset base of most other people, you can begin to be convinced by these propaganda  this propaganda.

AMY GOODMAN: I was just watching Steve Ratner this morning, right, who is the American financier who led the presidential task force on the auto industry for the Obama administration, when talking about the California increase in the minimum wage bill, talked about how, for example, at fast food restaurants, yeah, he said maybe minimum wage should be increased, but you are talking living wage, when these people want $15 an hour, that is not with these fast food restaurants are about. What is your response to that?

ROBERT REICH: Well, first of all, were not talking about individual mom and pop operations so much as we are talking about the Walmarts, the very large chains, retail, restaurant, hotel, hospital. Walmart is the largest employer in the United States right now. McDonalds and others, if they raise their minimum-wage to $15 an hour, that would have several positive effects. It would, as I noted a moment ago, give people more money with which they could then turn around and buy stuff, which is going to keep other people employed. It would, secondly, enable these people to live without the dependence on food stamps and other safety nets that we are all paying for. We are all subsidizing Walmart and McDonalds and others. These are not any longer  their employees are not any longer teenagers. I mean, these are mostly adults. The typical Walmart worker the typical even fast food worker at one of these big chains, is earning at least half of family income. And if they are not going to pay their workers enough, the rest of us are going to have to subsidize their workers, even the earned income tax credit is a subsidy to these companies so their workers are not impoverished. And thats just  thats not fair. That is not economical. That gives these companies a competitive advantage that is simply unwarranted.

AMY GOODMAN: Janet Sparks, a Walmart employee was recently speaking at a protest and comparing the wages of Walmart workers to the CEO of Walmart, which was something like $20.7 million.

ROBERT REICH: The gap between CEO pay and the pay of the typical workers  you dont even have to go to the low-wage workers  is now at a record 350 times. So, anybody who says somehow these companies cant afford it, is not looking at their profit loss statements, is not looking at their extraordinary corporate profits overall, the share values which has been risen  has risen dramatically since the great recession, relative to what is happened to wages. If you look at the economy as a whole, the share of the economy going to wages is at the lowest level we have seen in about five decades. The share going to profits is at the highest level we have seen in decades. This is not rocket science. This is not abstruse economics. This is just  these are data available to everybody and have been well reported.

AMY GOODMAN: So, what can the Obama Administration do? What can President Obama do to address this greatest gap in wealth in this country that we have ever seen?

ROBERT REICH: Well, number one, introduced a bill to raise the minimum wage. He says that he is going to do it; still has not done it. His minimum wage bill was very modest. I think it ought to be a minimum wage that is higher than nine dollars and whatever I cant remember what it is, $9.20 or $9.50. But, secondly, I think that the president and other members of administration out to be out there campaigning for better wages because even as people start to get new jobs back, those new jobs are paying less than the jobs that were lost during the great recession. Which means that the median wage  Im not talking about average wage. Shaquille ONeal, the basket ball player, and I have an average height of 61". Do you get my point? Im pretty short. I mean, every time you say average, watch your wallet, because the people at the top are bringing up the average. But if you look at the median, which is really half way there, that gives you a pretty good snapshot of where the middle class, and certainly the poor, are. That median wage keeps on dropping, adjusted for inflation. Which means that more and more families are being squeezed to a greater and greater and greater extent. This economy is not working for everyone. And one of the points we make in the film, which I have been writing about, but the wonderful thing about the film is that you can dramatize something, is that the economy is not something out there, it is not kind of a state of nature, the economy is a set of rules. It is based upon, basically, rules that are decided upon by our democracy. And if our rules are generating outcomes that are unfair, that dont work very well, that dont spread enough of the gains of economic growth to enough people, we change the rules.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk, finally, about the significance of who will head the Federal Reserve? What that means in this country? Now we have got the battle between Janet Yellen and Larry Summers. You have a long history with Larry Summers. President Obama is rumored to be supporting Larry Summers. Talk about the significance of what that means considering this five years, the Lehman Brothers anniversary, is all tied up with Larry Summers and his ideology.

ROBERT REICH: The Fed does two things. The most of our attention is on the bond buying program, that is, is it keeping interest rates down and who benefits from those low interest rates. The other thing, though, that the Fed is charged with is a great deal of regulatory oversight of Wall Street. More now than before, although, Dodd Frank is still not fully effectuated. I mean, the big banks have pushed back very hard. The so-called Volcker rule, remember that?

AMY GOODMAN: Explain.

ROBERT REICH: It is supposed to be the watered-down version of Glass-Steagall, separating commercial from investment banking. Still not there. The banks have been so powerful in their lobbying and political contributions that they have not even allow the Volcker Rule to be applied. But, the next Fed chair is going to have a very important responsibility with regard to oversight of Wall Street.

AMY GOODMAN: And what does it mean that Larry Summers is reportedly President Obamas top candidate?

ROBERT REICH: Well, I am in an awkward position here because I know Janet Yellen well. She is very close friend and Larry Summers and I are friends. Ive been working with him for thirty years, and so if youre asking me, who do 

AMY GOODMAN: Well, aside from the friend part, you know Larry Summers, Robert Rubin, what they represent in what were talking about, this huge income gap in the country that continues to grow.

ROBERT REICH: Let me just be clear. In the late 1990s,1999, Bob Rubin, Larry Summers, others in the administration, did agree to support Republican bills to get rid of the Glass-Steagall act, which as I said, had separated investment from commercial banking. They also opposed the move a by the Commodity Futures Trading Corporation to regulate derivatives. That is what got us into trouble, the lack of oversight from derivative trading. These are bets on bets. Wall Street was making a fortune on them, certainly by 2007. And those bets were out of control. So, lets just put it this way. Bob Rubin is also a friend, but I spent a lot of time in the administration battling Bob Rubin because, Bob, again I like him, his view of the economy is through the eyes of Wall Street. Those eyes  the Wall Streets view of America, is not where most people live. It is just not  it doesnt take account of the problems, the challenges, the realities faced by most people. It views the economy as sort of a bunch of assets to be moved around wherever they can get the highest use and best use. And people are not simply assets.

AMY GOODMAN: Were going to take break and then when we come back, I want to play for you a clip of another colleague, though he was at University of California Berkeley years ago, the Chilean economist Manfred Max-Neef and I would like to get your response. He is calling for a global economic war crimes tribunal. This is Democracy Now! We will be back with Robert Reich in a minute.

AMY GOODMAN: Our guest for the hour is Robert Reich, the former Labor Secretary, now Professor of E at University of California, Berkeley, and the subject of a new film called, Inequality for All. We are going to talk more about that in a minute. But first, I want to turn to another economist, Chilean economist Manfred Max-Neef, who has advocated for the idea of an economics crimes tribunal. I interviewed him over Independence Day weekend when he was attending a meeting of Right Livelihood Award Laureates in Bogotá, Colombia. He won their Right Livelihood Award after his publication of his book, "Outside Looking In: Experiences in Barefoot Economics." I asked him what he was talking about with this economic crimes tribunal, why he felt one was needed.

MANFRED MAX NEEF: Well, we know that everything that has happened now in these last years, and we know that many, or practically all, of the big problems: environment, assassinations of leaders, in the Amazon and other places, and unemployment, and desperation, and all of the suicides that are increasing dramatically in Spain and other places of the worldwe know all these, in the end, until now, are the origin of what I call an evilan absolutely evileconomic model that is dominating the world.
This economy cannot go on no longer because it has become absolutely criminal. I was last year in the Zermatt meeting in Switzerland, with about 400 people participating, all high-level people from different countries of the world, and I gave the opening speech. In the speech I said, well, Im going to start with a very brutal statement. The statement is that this economic model is killing more people in the world than all the armies put together. And this is people who die of hunger or of other diseases that would not be happening now if there was a more just, and I would even say decent, economic model.
What we are working on now is really a humane process. I am now one of the members appointed by the King of Bhutan, the General Assembly, one of the 60 national experts, who are designing a new economic paradigm and developing a paradigm for the world, which is based on well-being and happiness and ecological sustainability and adequate distribution of wealth and intelligent use of natural resources. But the main component is well-being and human happiness.
Along the lines of what was said by your wonderful, magnificent, and forgotten father of your country, Thomas Jefferson, the only one who wrote a political document in which happiness, the pursuit of happiness, is an inalienable right.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Manfred Max-Neef. He also was a professor at University of California, Berkeley, an economics professor, now in South Chile. Particularly poignant to hear his words today, on this week, thats the Fortieth Anniversary of the coup in Chile on September 11th, the other September 11, 1973. Salvador Allende died in the Palace as the Pinochet forces rose to powerPinochet ruling for seventeen years, killing thousands of Chileans. But that idea that Manfred Max-Neef puts forward, Robert Reich, of economics crimes tribunal. What do you think?

ROBERT REICH: It is very interesting to examine who the great economic criminals are. It is interesting you mentioned the Pinochet coup because two years after that, Milton Friedman came down to Chile to meet with Pinochet to urge economic reforms that were basically quite brutal and brutalized a great number of people. Milton Friedman was not necessarily a supporter of Pinochet, but certainly hated Allende, was very supportive of what Kissinger and Nixon had both done and that is helped Pinochet take over eventually

AMY GOODMAN: Interestingly, this week, Kerry met with Kissinger to get advice on Syria, on September 11th.

ROBERT REICH: On September 11th. There are these unfortunate parallels. So in defining an economic criminal, I think it would be interesting to see the interactions between economics and politics. The criminal actions to me, around the world, particularly in the United States, are the underminings of democracy. That is, if we cannot have a democracy that controls, that limits the excesses of capitalism, the brutality of capitalism, then we dont have any hope of a just economy. And the people who are making it difficult for our democracy or any democracy to functionagain, very poignantly reflected in this Fortieth anniversary of the coup in Chileare those people who could very well be defined as economic criminals.

AMY GOODMAN: Robert Reich, finally, the film is coming out, the film about you, Inequality for All, in two weeks, and it will air around the country, it will play in theaters around the country. You famously say in this film, as you even said on the show, we make the rules of the economy and we have the power to change these rules. What do you hope to accomplish with this film?

ROBERT REICH: First of all, it is not about me. It is about the economy, it is about inequality, it is about our democracy. I am a vehicle. I helped prepare the film and it is based on some of my work and writings. But we hope that the film is going to open a lot of peoples eyes who dont understand what is going on. Theres a lot of confusion about inequality. People know that inequality is surging. Many people have a feeling the game is rigged. But they dont really understand why, how its happened and why it is dangerous. Or what they can do about it.

This film also provides a kind of guide to people. Theres a social action movement that is connected to the film. We hope that the film really spurs not just a different discussion in this country, but also a movement to take back our economy and democracy,

AMY GOODMAN: Where do you think we start?

ROBERT REICH: We start  it has to start with people, citizens, organizing, and mobilizing and energizing. Nothing starts in Washington. It starts at the grassroots. We know this. Those of us who have been involved in social movements before know this. But in order to start it, you have to have the right understanding. You have to have the right framework. That is what this movie is about.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you, Rob Reich, for joining us: Rob Reich, former Labor Secretary under President Clinton. Hes featured in the new film, "Inequality for All." Its being released on September 27th. He has written twelve books including, "Aftershock, and Beyond Outrage.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, Robert Reich, who appears to be a very decent person.
> 
> The hat in your avatar looks like a Hannukah Menorah, San Francisco style. Interesting concept.


The hat is one of the outrageous creations from "Beach Blanket Babylon,"a San Francisco comedy/revue, and it holds the city.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks for the transcript, Peace. I had already read part of it, and I hope everyone takes the opportunity to read it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why is our once-great nation not great any more? Our nation is in decline for the reasons stated. I'm ashamed.



alcameron said:


> Here's my favorite guy again
> I really like what he says a DECENT society would do.
> Robert Reich
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> These were not adults who chose jobs putting them in harm's way. These were children going to Sunday school.
> 
> Someone hated the color of their skin so much that they felt justified in murdering them. Many never repented this hatred. And the GOP is considering nominating a man for President 50 years later who proclaims we need 100 more like Jesse Helms.
> 
> Shame GOP. Shame those who support you.


They'd have to amend the Constitution for Cruz; he was born in Canada. But he can still be a major PITA without being president.

The murder of children is to my mind the worst crime one can commit. Yet I bet these killers managed to sleep at night.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Heehee, that's hilarious! Your friends sure know you well!


Hey I know how to have a good time and be political at the same time.

Someday I will tell you about my Valentine's Day and birth control caper.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's what I've found in Denim & Pearls too. Why don't they all go scurry over there and leave us to discuss?



Poor Purl said:


> I've noticed that frequently. The stories they believe about Benghazi came from an anonymous chain email with a forged signature - clearly a reliable source.
> 
> Out of curiosity, bc I'd never looked there, I read a few msgs on Denim and Pearls or whatever it's called. After a few pats on each other's backs, the subject of Obama came up, and none of them could figure out where his money came from. Not from being a community organizer, not from his parents, etc. Not one of them could come up with the obvious source: two incredibly popular best-sellers and a Nobel Prize that paid almost a million and a half. These probably never were mentioned in those strange publications they seem to read. I guess they thought he was a very successful crack dealer.
> 
> And now I never need to look at D&P again.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo. Good example of prophetic free speech.



peacegoddess said:


> I have a friend who gave me a can of spray paint and a stencil of the word GREED for a birthday present. We went out one night and stenciled it on the pavement of a Shell gas station. Just a few days after the Valdeze wreck in Alaska. More of my outrageous behavior.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Do you ever notice how the radical right is afraid to expose themselves to main stream media? They're afraid they might get swayed by facts. What in the heck is "westernjournalism?" I looked it up. There is no journalism there.


It's way out there on the edge of sanity in right wing crazy land. They may even be more out there than the Blaze. That's some fun reading.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> This bombing should always remind us how horrible man can become.


There are innumerable things that should always remind is how horrible man can become. Right now, as I write this, thousand of injustices, both large and small, are taking place.

We can't give all our time to remembering. We need to give our time to effecting change, and to being the best we each can be.

That's my sermon, short but probably not sweet.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheky Blighter
did you crochet that fabulous Hat? That is really neat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I read it and I am depressed and ashamed.



alcameron said:


> Thanks for the transcript, Peace. I had already read part of it, and I hope everyone takes the opportunity to read it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thanks for the reminder Purl. Back on the wagon. Ain't easy.


I think from now on, if I respond to one of their messages, I'll simply say "Boo!" and hope they run away.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please tell us. I really, really need a laugh.



peacegoddess said:


> Hey I know how to have a good time and be political at the same time.
> 
> Someday I will tell you about my Valentine's Day and birth control caper.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There are innumerable things that should always remind is how horrible man can become. Right now, as I write this, thousand of injustices, both large and small, are taking place.
> 
> We can't give all our time to remembering. We need to give our time to effecting change, and to being the best we each can be.
> 
> That's my sermon, short but probably not sweet.


MIB when I see those little girls it makes me so sad that they never even got to grow up and have a life of their own. I have been hearing a lot lately about "the new civil rights movement".
You are correct that we have much to do and I will gather some items about this and post it. Hopefully, all of us can get involved in our communities, states or on a federal level to bring about peaceful change that helps our fellow citizens to have a better life. I have always found that this involvement is so rewarding and I have met so many interesting people and had opportunities I would never have had otherwise. I know a lot of our Ladies are already very active doing a lot of good work and I thank them for it. So much needs to be done.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> did you crochet that fabulous Hat? That is really neat.


No, I wish I did. I saw it out on Pinterest. It would really be fun to just let your creativity lead you and see what you end up with. You are good at that, Huck.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Please tell us. I really, really need a laugh.


Because you insisted.

About 12 years ago, I was living in a small college town in Ohio that was VERY conservative and the local Planned Parenthood was getting picketed regularly and the clinic was very gun shy of the local religious fanatics. They did not do abortions, it was birth control and women's health services only.

Anyway I had read where a PP in New York was selling pink and red condoms for Valentine's Day as a fundraiser and safe sex campaign. To make a long story short, I organized some women from my book club and we bought $300.00 worth of pink and red condums and spent two hours at the local college distributing them at the student center and the dorms. Of course we called the press before so we had TV and newspaper coverage.

The letters to the editor after the story ran was full of how we were promoting and endorsing promiscuity. But the students were very receptive to the distribution and it was a success.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> and guilty of vandalism.


What do you think the Boston Tea Party was? I am carrying on the tradition of the founders of our country.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What do you think the Boston Tea Party was? I am carrying on the tradition of the founders of our country.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Because you insisted.
> 
> About 12 years ago, I was living in a small college town in Ohio that was VERY conservative and the local Planned Parenthood was getting picketed regularly and the clinic was very gun shy of the local religious fanatics. They did not do abortions, it was birth control and women's health services only.
> 
> ...


peacegoddess
fabulous.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What do you think the Boston Tea Party was? I am carrying on the tradition of the founders of our country.


peacegoddess
you see, anything these folks do is justified and if it is lynching.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Because you insisted.
> 
> About 12 years ago, I was living in a small college town in Ohio that was VERY conservative and the local Planned Parenthood was getting picketed regularly and the clinic was very gun shy of the local religious fanatics. They did not do abortions, it was birth control and women's health services only.
> 
> ...


Good for you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No, I wish I did. I saw it out on Pinterest. It would really be fun to just let your creativity lead you and see what you end up with. You are good at that, Huck.


Cheeky Blighter
You had to dare me, well kind of, didn't you. I see what I can come up with. I made the one in my Avatar. Won 1st Prize at a Golf Event. It was more luxurious then, it had Pearl Necklace wound up on it and Diamond Brooch. I am always game for any fun. Remember? It seems so long since we vacationed, doesn't it. By the way, our recent Alascan Cruise was so great that we are planning an other one combined with a Train Trip through Canada and visit to Glacier Bay National Park.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I love riding on trains. So civilized and comfortable. Wouldn't you love to ride the Orient Express?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Keeping people ignorant and short on critical thinking skills helps deepen the oligarchy. The business folks will cast these ignorant fundies out with the baptismal waters as soon as they have used them all up in their dirty schemes. 
That is the other side of the belief fallacy for these folks is that they have faith that if they pray enough, believe enough, are fundamental enough they will follow in the footsteps of these business folks. 
I have actually had people who are vendors in the same flea market as I tell me that if I please God by believing enough that I will be rewarded by making money, not making money is a sign that a person does not possess a strong enough belief. 
What the what??!! Not making money at a flea market as with any other venue means that your stock is not what people want. LOL. period, the end. 
The thing that galls me about this is that this is a man who is nearly 80 and is working he claims because he must to supplement his income. You can bet your royal bippy that I won't be working at his age, at least not because I NEED to.



GWPlver said:


> Saw this in our newspaper. Ahhhh....drives me nuts!! Why do people feel the need to control what others learn.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Yes, let us continue to expose the simple minds. Thank you for being on board. We have come a long way and have far to go and cannot step back even an inch. Too many People suffered for all too long and many gave their Life and we can never forget that. There are supposed to be hundreds of Gods, where are they and what are they up to? Nothing good obviously or there would not be so much carnage in the World. By the way lunatic is so fitting. Watch when there is a full Moon, it gets "better". Huck


Huck, I don't think it's so much a matter of where the Gods or God is at any particular time, but what we choose. We have free will, after all, and if we choose evil, evil will be done. We aren't always saved from ourselves.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

For the past many days while reading the tripe posted by the conservs and their "heroes" I have thought off and on about Molly Ivins. So here is Molly!


 What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority.

 Think of something to make the ridiculous look ridiculous.

 The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion.

 Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful.

 There are two kinds of humor. One kind that makes us chuckle about our foibles and our shared humanity -- like what Garrison Keillor does. The other kind holds people up to public contempt and ridicule -- that's what I do. Satire is traditionally the weapon of the powerless against the powerful. I only aim at the powerful. When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel -- it's vulgar.

 I believe that ignorance is the root of all evil. And that no one knows the truth.

 You can't ignore politics, no matter how much you'd like to.

 It is possible to read the history of this country as one long struggle to extend the liberties established in our Constitution to everyone in America.

 What stuns me most about contemporary politics is not even that the system has been so badly corrupted by money. It is that so few people get the connection between their lives and what the bozos do in Washington and our state capitols.

Politics is not a picture on a wall or a television sitcom that you can decide you don't much care for.

 There's never been a law yet that didn't have a ridiculous consequence in some unusual situation; there's probably never been a government program that didn't accidentally benefit someone it wasn't intended to. Most people who work in government understand that what you do about it is fix the problem -- you don't just attack the whole government.

 I believe in practicing prudence at least once every two or three years.

 One function of the income gap is that the people at the top of the heap have a hard time even seeing those at the bottom. They practically need a telescope. The pharaohs of ancient Egypt probably didn't waste a lot of time thinking about the people who built their pyramids, either. OK, so it's not that bad yet -- but it's getting that bad.

 In the real world, there are only two ways to deal with corporate misbehavior: One is through government regulation and the other is by taking them to court. What has happened over 20 years of free-market proselytizing is that we have dangerously weakened both forms of restraint, first through the craze for "deregulation" and second through endless rounds of "tort reform," all of which have the effect of cutting off citizens' access to the courts. By legally bribing politicians with campaign contributions, the corporations have bought themselves immunity from lawsuits on many levels.

 I am not anti-gun. I'm pro-knife. Consider the merits of the knife. In the first place, you have to catch up with someone in order to stab him. A general substitution of knives for guns would promote physical fitness. We'd turn into a whole nation of great runners. Plus, knives don't ricochet. And people are seldom killed while cleaning their knives.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I have a friend who gave me a can of spray paint and a stencil of the word GREED for a birthday present. We went out one night and stenciled it on the pavement of a Shell gas station. Just a few days after the Valdeze wreck in Alaska. More of my outrageous behavior.


Keep up the good work! :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Hey I know how to have a good time and be political at the same time.
> 
> Someday I will tell you about my Valentine's Day and birth control caper.


Ask me about the early days of security screening at airports and what happened with my diaphram sometime.:mrgreen:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I am in stitches already!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I love riding on trains. So civilized and comfortable. Wouldn't you love to ride the Orient Express?


I'll pass, thanks. I've ridden many trains through the Southwest, and it drives me crazy to whoosh through tiny interesting towns that I'd love to explore in detail.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> You had to dare me, well kind of, didn't you. I see what I can come up with. I made the one in my Avatar. Won 1st Prize at a Golf Event. It was more luxurious then, it had Pearl Necklace wound up on it and Diamond Brooch. I am always game for any fun. Remember? It seems so long since we vacationed, doesn't it. By the way, our recent Alaskan Cruise was so great that we are planning an other one combined with a Train Trip through Canada and visit to Glacier Bay National Park.


I have seen your handiwork, Huck. Your hats are beautiful. I'm sure you could come up with something very special either knitted or crocheted. Maybe we should have a contest and see if anyone else is interested. That would be fun.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I love riding on trains. So civilized and comfortable. Wouldn't you love to ride the Orient Express?


peacegoddess
taking the Orient Express has been a dream of mine for as long as I can remember. Hal Linden, his wife and their two Afghan Dogs took that YEARS ago. All decked out in period attire and that hooked me even more. We love Trains. We pretty regularly take a Dinner Train. Have taken the high speed Trains in Europe. What luxury and so quiet. We should have had those here long ago. It would get Seniors to travel much more and entice many more foreigners to visit our beautiful Country. Air travel is the pits now.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have seen your handiwork, Huck. Your hats are beautiful. I'm sure you could come up with something very special either knitted or crocheted. Maybe we should have a contest and see if anyone else is interested. That would be fun.


Cheeky Blighter
I am more of a knitter than a crocheter. I usually crochet to finish something knitted. I would love to have others create with me a funky Hat or something else out of the ordinary. Who is game?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> I am more of a knitter than a crocheter. I usually crochet to finish something knitted. I would love to have others create with me a funky Hat or something else out of the ordinary. Who is game?


I'm in Huck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are a creative, liberal soul. I'll follow you anywhere.

Thank you. Thank you.



peacegoddess said:


> Because you insisted.
> 
> About 12 years ago, I was living in a small college town in Ohio that was VERY conservative and the local Planned Parenthood was getting picketed regularly and the clinic was very gun shy of the local religious fanatics. They did not do abortions, it was birth control and women's health services only.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And liberty and humor for all.



peacegoddess said:


> What do you think the Boston Tea Party was? I am carrying on the tradition of the founders of our country.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> you see, anything these folks do is justified and if it is lynching.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Sarcasm appreciated.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least send lots of postcards. I plaster the refrigerator with them beside GC's pictures. hugs



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> You had to dare me, well kind of, didn't you. I see what I can come up with. I made the one in my Avatar. Won 1st Prize at a Golf Event. It was more luxurious then, it had Pearl Necklace wound up on it and Diamond Brooch. I am always game for any fun. Remember? It seems so long since we vacationed, doesn't it. By the way, our recent Alascan Cruise was so great that we are planning an other one combined with a Train Trip through Canada and visit to Glacier Bay National Park.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or across the Canadian Rockies?



peacegoddess said:


> I love riding on trains. So civilized and comfortable. Wouldn't you love to ride the Orient Express?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jelun2 said:


> Keeping people ignorant and short on critical thinking skills helps deepen the oligarchy. The business folks will cast these ignorant fundies out with the baptismal waters as soon as they have used them all up in their dirty schemes.
> That is the other side of the belief fallacy for these folks is that they have faith that if they pray enough, believe enough, are fundamental enough they will follow in the footsteps of these business folks.
> I have actually had people who are vendors in the same flea market as I tell me that if I please God by believing enough that I will be rewarded by making money, not making money is a sign that a person does not possess a strong enough belief.
> What the what??!! Not making money at a flea market as with any other venue means that your stock is not what people want. LOL. period, the end.
> The thing that galls me about this is that this is a man who is nearly 80 and is working he claims because he must to supplement his income. You can bet your royal bippy that I won't be working at his age, at least not because I NEED to.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I miss Molly so much. A great mind, a sharp tongue and a brave heart.



peacegoddess said:


> For the past many days while reading the tripe posted by the conservs and their "heroes" I have thought off and on about Molly Ivins. So here is Molly!
> 
>  What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

PLEASE!!!!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Ask me about the early days of security screening at airports and what happened with my diaphram sometime.:mrgreen:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Huck, I don't think it's so much a matter of where the Gods or God is at any particular time, but what we choose. We have free will, after all, and if we choose evil, evil will be done. We aren't always saved from ourselves.


MaidInBedlam
I agree with you about choosing but where is the Shepherd when we go so astray?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> For the past many days while reading the tripe posted by the conservs and their "heroes" I have thought off and on about Molly Ivins. So here is Molly!
> 
>  What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority.
> 
> ...


peacegoddess
THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I am enjoying this immensely.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

duplicate post - sorry


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Molly Ivins was a true hero: she never gave up and she never gave in, which in Texas I believe is a rarity.


peacegoddess said:


> For the past many days while reading the tripe posted by the conservs and their "heroes" I have thought off and on about Molly Ivins. So here is Molly!
> 
> ................... snip snip snip snip ....................
> 
> When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel -- it's vulgar.


So right, but too many people (even here, on KP) seem not to understand this.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> You had to dare me, well kind of, didn't you. I see what I can come up with. I made the one in my Avatar. Won 1st Prize at a Golf Event. It was more luxurious then, it had Pearl Necklace wound up on it and Diamond Brooch. I am always game for any fun. Remember? It seems so long since we vacationed, doesn't it. By the way, our recent Alascan Cruise was so great that we are planning an other one combined with a Train Trip through Canada and visit to Glacier Bay National Park.


How about a hat inspired by one of yor trips?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Texas will never be the same without her and Ann Richards. Molly Ivans was such a unique writer, always laying low the pompous with insight and good humor with books such as "Molly Ivans Can't Say That, Can She?." And the columns were scathing.



Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I am enjoying this immensely.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we look at power in a different way. I do respect your POV.



Poor Purl said:


> Molly Ivins was a true hero: she never gave up and she never gave in, which in Texas I believe is a rarity.So right, but too many people (even here, on KP) seem not to understand this.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think we look at power in a different way. I do respect your POV.


I don't think I understand this. Not sure what I said about power. I was commenting on one quote from Molly Ivins.

[Pause] Okay, I went back to read my whole message, and I think I understand now. What I really was commenting on was this:


Molly Ivins said:


> When satire is aimed at the powerless, it is not only cruel -- it's vulgar


I first got involved in political messaging on KP when someone posted a "joke" that portrayed people on welfare as dogs. This was picked up as a thread planning wonderful things the dogs and their owners would do if they were entitled to collect government payments for the pets. Some people, including me, found these jokes unacceptable, but the majority of people who enjoyed them simply told us we "had no sense of humor," "it was just a joke," and essentially "go away and stop spoiling our fun."

It was that incident that I was reminded of when I read Ivins's quote. I don't recall whether you were involved in that, but I think we would have been on the same side of the argument.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I agree with you about choosing but where is the Shepherd when we go so astray?


Someone will probably post something about how wrong I am about this, but as I understand it, He's always with us. We, being naturally imperfect, don't always accept Him and/or act accordingly, and sometimes he doesn't intervene on our behalf. Those two things being the case, we can easily get into masses of trouble. Saint Augustine managed to reconcile the fact that God is omniscient and omnipresent with the fact that we have free will, but I'm not awake enough yet to restate his reasoning.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> PLEASE!!!!


I was in O'Hare Airport one day in 1980, and they put peoples' small bags and purses through an x-ray machine. I put my knapsack on the conveyor belt. A young man was monitoring the screen, and saw the metal spring that forms the edge of a diaphragm and asked me to take it out and show him what I had. I did and told him what it was and how it worked. He had never heard of such a thing and asked me to show it to him. As I opened the case, it sort of jumped out at him, he jumped back like he'd been burned, and the line of people behind me all started laughing at him. Unable to speak, he waved me through so I could head for my departure gate. I went on my way bogled by yet another example of human ignorance.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I was in O'Hare Airport one day in 1980, and they put peoples' small bags and purses through an x-ray machine. I put my knapsack on the conveyor belt. A young man was monitoring the screen, and saw the metal spring that forms the edge of a diaphragm and asked me to take it out and show him what I had. I did and told him what it was and how it worked. He had never heard of such a thing and asked me to show it to him. As I opened the case, it sort of jumped out at him, he jumped back like he'd been burned, and the line of people behind me all started laughing at him. Unable to speak, he waved me through so I could head for my departure gate. I went on my way bogled by yet another example of human ignorance.


good one!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> good one!


I wish I could tell that story well enough. It was really pretty funny.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I was in O'Hare Airport one day in 1980, and they put peoples' small bags and purses through an x-ray machine. I put my knapsack on the conveyor belt. A young man was monitoring the screen, and saw the metal spring that forms the edge of a diaphragm and asked me to take it out and show him what I had. I did and told him what it was and how it worked. He had never heard of such a thing and asked me to show it to him. As I opened the case, it sort of jumped out at him, he jumped back like he'd been burned, and the line of people behind me all started laughing at him. Unable to speak, he waved me through so I could head for my departure gate. I went on my way bogled by yet another example of human ignorance.


MaidInBedlam
love that story. I am sure it will be the center of some of his conversations for a long time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry Purl. I was thinking of the powerless fighting back. I view the Tea Partiers as misusing power. Of lying to manipulate the electorate. Maybe I just need a nap.



Poor Purl said:


> I first got involved in political messaging on KP when someone posted a "joke" that portrayed people on welfare as dogs. This was picked up as a thread planning wonderful things the dogs and their owners would do if they were entitled to collect government payments for the pets. Some people, including me, found these jokes unacceptable, but the majority of people who enjoyed them simply told us we "had no sense of humor," "it was just a joke," and essentially "go away and stop spoiling our fun."
> 
> It was that incident that I was reminded of when I read Ivins's quote. I don't recall whether you were involved in that, but I think we would have been on the same side of the argument.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well he learned about the birds and the bees that day. Love it.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I was in O'Hare Airport one day in 1980, and they put peoples' small bags and purses through an x-ray machine. I put my knapsack on the conveyor belt. A young man was monitoring the screen, and saw the metal spring that forms the edge of a diaphragm and asked me to take it out and show him what I had. I did and told him what it was and how it worked. He had never heard of such a thing and asked me to show it to him. As I opened the case, it sort of jumped out at him, he jumped back like he'd been burned, and the line of people behind me all started laughing at him. Unable to speak, he waved me through so I could head for my departure gate. I went on my way bogled by yet another example of human ignorance.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

From Democracy Now

Noam Chomsky: Instead of "Illegal" Threat to Syria, U.S. Should Back Chemical Weapons Ban in All Nations

AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about President Obamas speech and the crisis in Syria, were joined by the world-renowned political dissident, linguist, author, MIT Professor Noam Chomsky. He has authored numerous books. His latest is On Western Terrorism: From Hiroshima to Drone Warfare, thats out next week. He joins us via Democracy Now! video stream from his home in Massachusetts.

Noam, welcome to Democracy Now! First, lets get your response to President Obama announcing last night in a nationwide address, which Im sure was watched worldwide, that for the moment there would be no strike on Syria, as the U.S. supports the Russian plan to deal with the chemical weapons stockpile of Syria? 

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, the Russian plan is a godsend for Obama. It saves him from what would look like a very serious political defeat. He has not been able to obtain virtually any international support for thisthe action hes contemplating. Even Britain wouldnt support it. And it looked as though Congress wasnt going to support it either, which would leave him completely out on a limb. This leaves him a way out.

He can maintain the threat of force, which incidentally is a crime under international law, that we should bear in mind that the core principle of the United Nations Charter bars the threat or use of force, threat or use of force. So all of this is criminal, to begin with, but hell continue with that. The United States is a rogue state. It doesnt pay any attention to international law.

Heit was kind of interesting what he didnt say. This would be a perfect opportunity to ban chemical weapons, to impose the chemical weapons convention on the Middle East. The convention, contrary to what Obama said, does not specifically refer just to use of chemical weapons; it refers to production, storage or use of chemical weapons. Thats banned by the international norm that Obama likes to preach about. Well, there is a country which happens to behappens to have illegally annexed part of Syrian territory, which has chemical weapons and is in violation of the chemical weapons convention and has refused even to ratify itnamely, Israel. So heres an opportunity to eliminate chemical weapons from the region, to impose the chemical weapons convention as its actually formulated. But Obama was very careful not to say that hefor reasons which are too obvious to go intoheand that gap is highly significant. Of course, chemical weapons should be eliminated everywhere, but certainly in that region.

The other things that he said were not unusual, but nevertheless kind of shocking to anyone not familiar with U.S. political discourse, at least. So he described the Unitedhe said that for seven decades the United States has been "the anchor of global security." Really? Seven decades? That includes, for example, just 40 years ago today, when the United States played a major role in overthrowing the parliamentary democracy of Chile and imposing a brutal dictatorship, called "the first 9/11" in Latin America. Go back earlier years, overthrowing the parliamentary system in Iran, imposing a dictatorship; same in Guatemala a year later; attacking Indochina, the worst crime in the postwar period, killing millions of people; attacking Central America; killinginvolved in killingin imposing a dictatorship in the Congo; and invading Iraqon and on. Thats stability? I mean, that a Harvard Law School graduate can pronounce those words is pretty amazing, as is the fact that theyre accepted without comment.

So what he said is Im going to lie like a trooper about history; Im going to suppress the U.S. role, the actual U.S. role, for the last seven decades; Im going to maintain the threat of force, which is of course illegal; and Im going to ensure that the chemical weapons convention is not imposed on the region, because our ally, Israel, would be subjected to it. And I think those are some of the main points of his address. 

AMY GOODMAN: Noam Chomsky. Noam Chomsky, the world-renowned linguist, political dissident. Were going to go to break and then spend the hour with him on President Obamas policy and whats happening in the Middle East. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, The War and Peace Report. Back in a minute.

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: My fellow Americans, for nearly seven decades, the United States has been the anchor of global security. This has meant doing more than forging international agreements; it has meant enforcing them. The burdens of leadership are often heavy, but the world is a better place because we have borne them. And so, to my friends on the right, I ask you to reconcile your commitment to Americas military might with a failure to act when a cause is so plainly just; to my friends on the left, I ask you to reconcile your belief in freedom and dignity for all people with those images of children writhing in pain and going still on a cold hospital floorfor sometimes resolutions and statements of condemnation are simply not enough. Indeed, Id ask every member of Congress and those of you watching at home tonight to view those videos of the attack and then ask: What kind of world will we live in if the United States of America sees a dictator brazenly violate international law with poison gas and we choose to look the other way? 
AMY GOODMAN: That was President Obama addressing the nation last night. Professor Noam Chomsky, your response to his description of those who oppose military strike against Syria for a chemical weapons attack? 

NOAM CHOMSKY: Well, once again, whats particularly interesting is what he didnt say. So, yes, a good idea to look at the videos of the gas attack in Syria. But then we could also look at the photos of deformed fetuses in Saigon hospitals still appearing decades after John F. Kennedy launched a major chemical warfare attack against South Vietnam, 1961, dousing the country with poisonous dioxin-laced Agent Orange. Dioxin is one of the major carcinogens. The attack was aimed at food crops, in an effortand at ground cover, part of a general assault against the countrya huge number of atrocities, millions of people killed. The chemicalthe effects of chemical warfare are felt until today, partially by American soldiers, too. Or we could look at the photos of other deformed fetuses coming regularly in Fallujah, attacked by U.S. Marines in November 2004, killing several thousand people, destroying much of the town, using weapons whichof unknown character, but which left radiation levels that epidemiologists have estimated are comparable to Hiroshima. And the effects of that on high cancer rates, on deformed fetuses, on children devastated by horrifying deformities, that we could look at, too. Now, those are the ways in which the U.S. has broughthas been the anchor for global security for seven decades. Can run through the record, if there were time, but everyone should know it. These, of coursethats not said.

The U.S.the idea that the U.S. has introduced and imposed principles of international law, thats hardly even a joke. The United States has even gone so far as to veto Security Council resolutions calling on all states to observe international law. That was in the 1980s under Reagan. No state was mentioned, but it was evident that the intention was to request the United States to observe international law, after it had rejected a World Court judgment condemning it for what was called unlawful use of forceit means international terrorismagainst Nicaragua. In fact, the U.S. has been a rogue state, the leading rogue state, radically violating international law, refusing to accept international conventions. Theres hardly any international conventions that the U.S. has accepted, and those few that it has accepted are conditioned so as to be inapplicable to the United States. Thats true even of the genocide convention. The United States is self-authorized to commit genocide. In fact, that was accepted by the International Court of Justice. In the case of Yugoslavia v. NATO, one of the charges was genocide. The U.S. appealed to the court, saying that, by law, the United States is immune to the charge of genocide, self-immunized, and the court accepted that, so the case proceeded against the other NATO powers but not against the United States. In fact, the United States, when it joined the World Courtit helped introduce the modern World Court in 1946, and joined the World Court, but with a reservation. The reservation is that international agreements, laws, do not apply to the United States. So the U.N. Charter, the charter of the Organization of American States, the U.S. is immune to theirself-immunized to their requirements against the threat and use of force, intervention and so on.

Its kind of astonishing. I mean, by now its hard to be astonished, but it should be astonishing that a president of the United States, who is furthermore a constitutional lawyer or a graduate of Harvard Law School, can say things like this, in the full knowledge that the facts are exactly the opposite, radically the opposite. And there are millions and millions of victims who can testify to that. Right today ishappens to be an important date, the 40th anniversary of the overthrow of the parliamentary democracy of Chile, with substantial U.S. aid, because we insisted on having a vicious dictatorship, which became a major international terror center with our support, rather than allowing a Democratic Socialist government. Well, thatsthese are some of the realities of the world. Now, the picture that the president presented isit doesnt even merit the name fairy tale. 

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Professor Noam Chomsky, why do you think that the U.S. so quickly started to push for military strikes? And what do you think the U.S. or the international community should do to deal with this alleged use of chemical weapons in Syria? What do you think the appropriate response would be? 

NOAM CHOMSKY: The appropriate response would be to call for imposing the chemical weapons convention in the Middle Eastin fact beyond, but well keep to the Middle Eastwhich would mean that any country that is in violation of that convention, whether it has accepted it or not, would be compelled to eliminate its chemical weapons stores. Just maintaining those stores, producing chemical weapons, all of thats in violation of the convention, and now is a perfect opportunity to do that. Of course, that would require that U.S. ally Israel give up its chemical weapons and permit international inspections. Incidentally, this should extend to nuclear weapons, as well. The further step would be to move towards the kinds of negotiations, Geneva negotiations, that the U.N. negotiator, Lakhdar Brahimi, has been calling for, with Russian support and with the United States kind of dragging its feet. Obama misstated that, too, last night. Thats the one thin hope, and its pretty thin, for some way to allow Syria to escape what is in fact a plunged, virtual suicide. 

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And why do you think the U.S. started to push for military action so swiftly? 

NOAM CHOMSKY: As it always does. The United States is a violent military state. Its been involved in military action all over the place. It invaded South Vietnam, practically destroyed Indochina, invaded Iraq, elicited a Sunni-Shia conflict, which is now tearing the region to shreds. I dont have to run through the rest of the record. But the United States moves very quickly to military action, unilaterally. It cansometimes can get some allies to go along. In this case, it cant even do that. And its just a routine. The United States is self-immunized from international law, which bans the threat or use of force. And this is taken for granted here. So, for example, when President Obama repeatedly says all options are open with regard to Iran, thats a violation of fundamental international law. It says we are using the threat of force, in violation of international law, to which we are self-immunized. Theres nothing new about this. Can you think of any other country thats used military force internationally on anything remotely like the scale of the United States during these seven decades when, according to Obama, weve been the anchor of global security? 

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Noam Chomsky, supporters of the U.S. plan say that the only reason that Assad agreed to hand over, relinquish control over chemical weapons was because of the threat of military force, of U.S. military force. And what interest does the U.S. have in striking Syria militarily? 

NOAM CHOMSKY: The first comment is correct. The threat and use of force can be effective. So, for example, Russia was able to control Eastern Europe for 50 years with the threat and occasional use of force. Hitler was able to take over Czechoslovakia with the threat of force. Yes, it often works, no doubt. Thats one of the reasons its banned under internationalunder international law.

The reasonthe pretexts for imposingfor carrying out a forceful act have generally declined, to the point that even the British government hasnt accepted them, and the Congress was apparently going to reject them, and the United States, the government, resorted to thewhat is usually the lastthe last resort, when everything else fails, saying our credibility is at stake. Thats correct. U.S. credibility is at stake. Obama issued an edict, and it has to be enforced. Thats a familiar doctrine. Its one of the leading doctrines of world affairs. Credibility of powerful, violent states must be maintained. Itsoccasionally called it the Mafia doctrine. Its essentially the doctrine by which the godfather rules his domains within the Mafia system. Thats one of the leading principles of world order: Credibility has to be maintained.

But that has many variants. Sometimes its called the domino theory. If we dont impose our will here, the dominos will start to fall, others will begin to be disobedient. In the case of Chile 40 years ago, to go back to that, what Latin Americans called the first 9/11, Henry Kissinger explained that Chile, under Allende, he said, is a virus that might spread contagion elsewhere, all the way to southern Europe. And he wasnt saying that Chilean troops were going to land in Rome. He was concerned, rightly, that the model of peaceful, parliamentary democracy might spread, in which case the contagion would spread beyond, and the U.S. system of domination would erode.

Just earlier on the program, you had an interview with Saul Landau, the late Saul Landau, with regard to [Cuba], and exactly the same doctrine applies there. The U.S. carried outinvaded Cuba, Bay of Pigs invasion. When that failed, Kennedy launched an enormous terrorist campaign, murderous terrorist campaign. The goal was to bring "the terrors of the earth" to Cuba, as Arthur Schlesinger described it, Kennedys adviser, Latin American adviser. It was in the hands of Robert Kennedy, and it was no joke. It was very serious. Now, thats been followed by 50 years of economic warfare, very harsh economic warfare, all unilateral. The world was overwhelmingly opposed to it. But it doesnt matter: We, as a rogue state, we do what we like. And the reasons are explicit in the internal record. The reasons, you go back to the early '60s, the internal government record explains that Castro is guilty of what they called "successful defiance" of the U.S. principles going back to the Monroe Doctrine, 1823no Russians, just the Monroe Doctrine, which established, in principle, our right to dominate the hemisphere. The U.S. wasn't powerful enough to do it then, but that was the principle, and Castro is carrying out "successful defiance" of that principle, therefore he mustCuba must be subjected to massive terrorism, economic warfare and strangulation. Thats been going on for 50 years. Same principle, the Mafia principle.

The same was true in Vietnam. The primary motive for the Indochina wars, going back to the early 1950s, was presented here as the domino theory. But what that meant was, if you read the internal records, that there was a fear, a justified fear, that successful independent development in Vietnam might spread through the region, might spread contagion through the region. Others would attempt the same path, that itself was of no great significance, but it might spread as far as Indonesia, which has rich resources, and there, too, there might be a move towards independent development, independent of U.S. domination. And it was even feared that that might bring in Japan. John Dower, the famous Asia historian, described Japan as the "superdomino." The U.S. was concerned, deeply concerned, that if Southeast Asia moved toward independent development, Japan would "accommodate," the word that was used, to East and Southeastern Asia, becoming its technological industrial center and creating a system, an Asian system, from which the U.S. would maybe not be excluded, but at least which it wouldnt control. Now, the U.S. had fought the Second World War to prevent that. Thats Japans new order, and it was in danger of being reconstituted if Indochina gained independence. Thats the domino theory. And that was understood. McGeorge Bundy, Kennedy-Johnson national security adviser, in retrospect, observed that the Vietnam Warthe United States should have called off the Vietnam War in 1965. Why 1965? Well, because in 1965 a U.S.-backed military coup took place in Indonesia, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of people, wiping out the only mass-based political party and instituting a regime of torture and terror, but opening the country up to Western exploitation, with its rich resources, and that meant that the Vietnam War was essentially over. The U.S. had won its main objectives. It was pointless to continue it.

Now, this policy isthese are major principles of world affairs, and theyre understandable, and theyre understood. So, go back to Cuba again. When Kennedy came into office, he was concerned with changing Latin American policy. He developed theset up a Latin American research commission. It was headed by Arthur Schlesinger, his historian who was his adviser, and they came out with a report. It was presented by Schlesinger to the president. And in it, Schlesinger described the problem of Cuba. He said the problem of Cuba is the Castro idea of taking matters into your own hands, an idea which may have resonance in other parts of Latin America, where the mass of the population is subjected to the same kind of harsh repression that they are in Cuba. And if this idea spreads, the U.S. system of control erodes. Well, going back to the Middle East, its the same. 

AMY GOODMAN: Noam, were going to go back to the Middle East just when we come back from break. We want to ask you about Syria in the larger Middle East context, particularly looking at Iran and looking at Israel. And, of course, as you point out, this is major date in history. Forty years ago today, September 11, 1973, in Chile, Salvador Allende died in the palace as the Pinochet forces rose to power. And it is also the 12th anniversary of the September 11th attacks. This is Democracy Now! Well be back in a moment.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thank you for the transcript, Peacegoddess.

As we reel in shock and sadness, witnessing one gun massacre after another, is there any reason whatsoever to fail to pass stricter Federal gun control laws of every type?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Thank you for the transcript, Peacegoddess.
> 
> As we reel in shock and sadness, witnessing one gun massacre after another, is there any reason whatsoever to fail to pass stricter Federal gun control laws of every type?


The reason is people are too stubborn to change. So sad.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> The reason is people are too stubborn to change. So sad.


That's not good enough. There's no reason good enough. US citizens are killing each other. What's more important than trying to stop that? And I don't care what the NRA and the gun-toters have to say. Congressmen need to grow a spine and buck those influences---even if it costs them NRA dollars and fewer votes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Al, you and I both know that isn't going to happen in this country for the foreseeable future. If a class of kindergarteners and brave teachers murdered in cold blood couldn't do it, nothing will.

I'm pragmatic. Stay out of crowds. Be alert always. And live your life.

Dona is done tilting at windmills.



alcameron said:


> That's not good enough. There's no reason good enough. US citizens are killing each other. What's more important than trying to stop that? And I don't care what the NRA and the gun-toters have to say. Congressmen need to grow a spine and buck those influences---even if it costs them NRA dollars and fewer votes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> That's not good enough. There's no reason good enough. US citizens are killing each other. What's more important than trying to stop that? And I don't care what the NRA and the gun-toters have to say. Congressmen need to grow a spine and buck those influences---even if it costs them NRA dollars and fewer votes.


The odd thing is that NRA dollars last year seemed to make very little difference - most NRA-supported candidates lost their elections (at least according to Rachel Madow). BUT the gun manufacturers don't want gun control, and they're the ones who will get what they want. The Tea Party Congress will never turn their backs on the industries that own them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Will More Gun Control Reduce Murder Rates? Harvard Study Says No
> 
> http://forgottenliberty.com/will-gun-control-reduce-murder-rates-harvard-study-says/
> 
> criminals dont obey gun laws


Please do me a favor and zip it. I'm no longer interested in hearing any more of your nonsense.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

In case you need something else to worry about, several states allow blind people to have gun permits, and to own firearms. Not just for self-defense, but also for hunting.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> The reason is people are too stubborn to change. So sad.


I see the problem as being the gun toting Bible toting religious right who are bringing this all down on our country. Their answer for everything is as they say, in the Bible. If that doesn't fix the problem then you take out your gun and start shooting at it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Gun Control is Why Chicago Murder Rates Are Skyrocketing (article written 8 months ago)
> 
> Any gun deaths are a tragedy, but restricting gun possession does not prevent them. John Lotts seminal work More Guns, Less Crime found that allowing law-abiding citizens to posses firearms reduces violent crime and causes criminals to turn to crimes which do not involve as much confrontation, such as break-ins. While most proponents of gun control are well intentioned, they are wrong to call for limitations on the possession of weapons by law-abiding citizens.
> 
> http://www.policymic.com/articles/22622/gun-control-is-why-chicago-murder-rates-are-skyrocketing


And here she is again. My, my, some people just don't seem to understand plain English, do they?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thought I'd throw this one in. It's a sobering statistic, and no doubt some will say it's not true.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Well all that is only falling on deaf ears and most people, like myself, wish they would work towards peace and honoring the laws so we can rejoin the rest of the civilized world. I heard last night and this morning to our friends abroad and once again they asked,"what is happening to America."


I know. The proliferation of guns in our country and the mindless senseless acts of violence they create make me ashamed. I'm not sure why in "the greatest country on earth" so many folks feel they need to arm themselves just to make a trip to the grocery store, but it's an absolute disgrace. Somehow we seem to be moving back through time--if we're once more living in the Wild West, then the mindset of the Middle Ages and punishments like drawing and quartering can't be far behind.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thought I'd throw this one in. It's a sobering statistic, and no doubt some will say it's not true.


It is, Aw. Sometimes we need face the cold hard facts by viewing the grim statistics. Thanks for sharing that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> And here she is again. My, my, some people just don't seem to understand plain English, do they?


Joey has no new ideas about anything and certainly no real understanding of what is going on in Chicago or anywhere else in her own country. From everything I have read on the FF thread they don't care one bit about black on black crime. If it is black on white that is a whole different matter. I haven't heard of mass murders being carried out by gangs since Al Capone and they were white as I recall. The mass murders happening continuously in our country are being committed almost entirely by young white males who used legally purchased guns that they either bought themselves or got from a relative. Many of these people, as was true of yesterday's shooter had serious mental health issues but he was still able to legally purchase guns and use them to kill another group of innocent people. I don't believe joey understands that blacks in Chicago gangs are not causing these mass murders. They are two entirely separate situations and both are tragic. Unless, she can show some connection that we are not aware of I will assume she hasn't a clue what she is talking about.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> And here she is again. My, my, some people just don't seem to understand plain English, do they?


I wonder if joey has an answer for why we are the most violent country in the world and why we have the most murders in the U.S. than any other civilized country? Gun control is the most lax in this country and the countries with tight gun control don't have all these deaths. Please tell us why this is joey? Your argument about Chicago and strict gun laws doesn't hold water. Do you even grasp the difference between what is happening in Chicago is not the same as this increasing phenomenon of mass murders. I don't think you do.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thought I'd throw this one in. It's a sobering statistic, and no doubt some will say it's not true.


I'll throw this one in.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I'll throw this one in.


Do tell us oh wise one. Why did Clinton do this. I need a good laugh and you probably would be able to provide it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I'll throw this one in.


I see one of the alter-egos has carried out another hit and run. My isn't she the brave one.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if joey has an answer for why we are the most violent country in the world and why we have the most murders in the U.S. than any other civilized country?


No doubt she does, Cheeky--can you wait a week or so to hear it?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Please do me a favor and zip it. I'm no longer interested in hearing any more of your nonsense.


The same could be said for you. Awfully unAmerican of you to try to bully someone into silence because you disagree with them. Just choose not to read the post


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Can we find some point of common ground on the gun violence issue.........Please?
From Harvaed Public health 

Public Health Approach

HSPH FEATURES

Educational strategy
$12.5 million establishes Transforming Public Health Education Initiative Fund

Hazard assessment
Pursuing safer workplaces


1-3 The public health approach emphasizes prevention and focuses not only on the gun user but also the instrument of violence and the environment.

These articles summarize the public health problems caused by firearms, and the public health approach to reducing firearm injuries.

Hemenway, David; Miller, Matthew. Public health approach to the prevention of gun violence. New England Journal of Medicine. 2013; 368:2033-35.

Hemenway, David. A public health approach to firearms policy in Mechanic, David; Rogut, Lynn B; Colby, David C; Knickman, James R. eds. Policy Challenges in Modern Health Care. New Brunswick, NJ: Rutgers U Press, 2005. pp. 85-98.

Hemenway, David. The public health approach to reducing injury and violence. Stanford Law and Policy Review. 2006, 17:635-56.



4-5. We can learn from the successes in other public health arenas.

The public health approach to reduce the problems of motor vehicles, tobacco and alcohol is applied to firearms policy. Manufacturers try to focus prevention efforts on the user rather than the product. Public health efforts emphasize systematic data collection and a multi-faceted policy approach that includes modifying the product and the environment.

Mozaffarian, Dariush; Hemenway, David; Ludwig, David S. Curbing gun violence: lessons from public health successes. JAMA. 2013; 309:551-52.

Hemenway, David. The public health approach to motor vehicles, tobacco, and alcohol, with applications to firearms policy. Journal of Public Health Policy. 2001; 22:381-402.



6. Many sensible policies can reduce our firearm problem

A chapter in the book focuses on future success stories and includes a summary of policies aimed at reducing firearm injury.

Hemenway, David. Future Successes. In: While We Were Sleeping: Success Stories in Injury and Violence Prevention. University of California Press; May 2009.



7. Changing social norms is also an effective way to reduce firearm violence

This viewpoint discusses social norms hat could be changed to reduce suicide, gun trafficking, accidents and interpersonal violence, with examples of successes in norm changes from other fields.

Hemenway, David. Preventing gun violence by changing social norms. JAMA-Internal Medicine. 2013, published ahead of print.



8. Physicians should be allowed to ask their patients about firearm availability

This commentary discusses the serious problems with the Florida law making it an offense for pediatricians and other doctors to discuss firearms with their patients under many circumstances.

Murtagh, Lindsey; Miller, Matthew. Censorship of the patient-physician relationship: a new Florida law. JAMA. 2011; 306:1131-32.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I see the problem as being the gun toting Bible toting religious right who are bringing this all down on our country. Their answer for everything is as they say, in the Bible. If that doesn't fix the problem then you take out your gun and start shooting at it.


How right you are, Cheeky.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Gun control: Five reasons why it wont work


YAWN (five times)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> YAWN (five times)


Has she ever named as a source something that everyone might read, rather than strange blogs and websites? It does get tedious reading all this made-up nonsense.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Joeysomma,

Do you have a suggestion how to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Has she ever named as a source something that everyone might read, rather than strange blogs and websites? It does get tedious reading all this made-up nonsense.


Oh yes, she's often posted links to her sources. I've clicked on a few, then watched my computer be transported to another dimension. Some of the right-wing sites are unbelievable. It's enough to make one burst out laughing if only it wasn't so painfully obvious that a few folks take this stuff ("Did Obama Just Waive the Ban On Arming Terrorist Suspects?" "Here's How Tattoo-Wearing, Gun-Toting Solider Miss Kansas Did at the Miss America Pageant" ) very seriously indeed.


----------



## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Do tell us oh wise one. Why did Clinton do this. I need a good laugh and you probably would be able to provide it.


Thank you for the compliment, I don't see anything to laugh about, but have at it. If you want to know why Clinton did this then research it. It is important that you educate Yourself, not for me to help you.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

If the figures for violent crime in England and Wales come from the Daily Mail (Mail Online), they deserve more scrutiny. Are you seriously comparing England and Wales with South Africa, where even the Mail concedes that South Africa has more than 20,000 murders each year, compared with UK's 921 in 2007? An affray in England & Wales is recorded as a violent crime, even when no-one is injured. And, I thought this debate was about gun crime.

No-one with any sense should take notice of the Mail. This is a rag with a very definite agenda - it is right wing and misogynistic, and, by the way, was an enthusiastic supporter of Hitler in the 1930s.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I see one of the alter-egos has carried out another hit and run. My isn't she the brave one.


Actually, Cheeks of A Blighter, I am brave. Again thank you for another compliment.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Any gun deaths are a tragedy, but restricting gun possession does not prevent them. John Lotts seminal work More Guns, Less Crime


Ah, yes, John Lott. Admitted faker. From his Wikipedia article:

*Disputed survey*

In the course of a dispute with Otis Dudley Duncan in 19992000,[56][57] Lott claimed to have undertaken a national survey of 2,424 respondents in 1997, the results of which were the source for claims he had made beginning in 1997.[58] However, in 2000 Lott was unable to produce the data, or any records showing that the survey had been undertaken. He said the 1997 hard drive crash that had affected several projects with co-authors had destroyed his survey data set,[59] the original tally sheets had been abandoned with other personal property in his move from Chicago to Yale, and he could not recall the names of any of the students who he said had worked on it. Critics alleged that the survey had never taken place,[60] but Lott defends the survey's existence and accuracy, quoting on his website colleagues who lost data in the hard drive crash.[61][self-published source?]

The least of his fakery is described in Wikipedia:

*Mary Rosh persona*

In response to the dispute surrounding the missing survey, Lott created and used "Mary Rosh" as a sock puppet to defend his own works on Usenet and elsewhere. After investigative work by blogger Julian Sanchez, Lott admitted to use of the Mary Rosh persona.[60] Sanchez also pointed out that Lott, posing as Rosh, not only praised his own academic writing, but also called himself "the best professor I ever had".

Many commentators and academics accused Lott of violating academic integrity, noting that he praised himself while posing as one of his former students,[69][70] and that "Rosh" was used to post a favorable review of More Guns, Less Crime on Amazon.com. Lott has claimed that the "Rosh" review was written by his son and wife.[70][broken citation]

"I probably shouldn't have done itI know I shouldn't have done itbut it's hard to think of any big advantage I got except to be able to comment fictitiously," Lott told the Washington Post in 2003.[70][broken citation]


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ah, yes, John Lott. Admitted faker. From his Wikipedia article:
> 
> *Disputed survey*
> 
> ...


Wow--this is really something! Thanks for posting it, Purl.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> In the late 1990s, England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban of all handguns and many types of long guns. Hundreds of thousands of guns were confiscated from those owners law abiding enough to turn them in to authorities. Without suggesting this caused violence, the bans ineffectiveness was such that by the year 2000 violent crime had so in creased that England and Wales had Europes highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States.


Joey you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I do. You are either lying or your sources are making up a bunch of C--P and then you are eating it up just like all the other C--P you have been devouring and then you come on the Liberal home thread and vomit up that same disgusting partially digested C--P here. I have many friends in England and have been there many times and just last night I got emails and facebook messages from several of them once again asking what is going on in the U.S. I would suggest you go over there and try to break into a farmhouse in rural England. You will promptly be blown away by a hunting rifle. They learned after Dunblane that things had to change. I have walked the streets of London at 2:00am and have no harm come to me and it is one of the largest cities in the world. People there do not feel the need to be armed to the hilt and they do not feel their government has taken away their rights. You are simply imposing your own very perverted view of this country and the world on others and you are wrong! Their may be a bit of increase in certain types of crimes but they are not crimes of pointless murder and mass murder. What is wrong with you that you cannot grasp that? Joey you are a babbling fool for posting such trash and nobody even believes you anymore. I used to see some intelligent posts from you and could interact with you with respect but you are so into you own delusions you can't even carry on an intelligent conversation any more and I feel very sorry for you. Please stop these posts, joey. You are fighting windmills and accomplishing absolutely nothing. Put down your sword and take a break. Your misguided religious zeal is really taking a toll on you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh yes, she's often posted links to her sources. I've clicked on a few, then watched my computer be transported to another dimension. Some of the right-wing sites are unbelievable. It's enough to make one burst out laughing if only it wasn't so painfully obvious that a few folks take this stuff ("Did Obama Just Waive the Ban On Arming Terrorist Suspects?" "Here's How Tattoo-Wearing, Gun-Toting Solider Miss Kansas Did at the Miss America Pageant" ) very seriously indeed.


Aren't they fun to read? I hope most of them have comics.

But I meant I've never seen references to The Washington Post or AP or even USA Today. They're always one of these outer-dimensional sites.

Speaking of which, was Miss Kansas a soldier, or was she really "solider" (more 3-dimensional, so to speak), as the quote has her?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't care right now what any study says. We have to do something, and the logical place to start is with some type of gun control laws. Who would it hurt? Why would anyone complain about background checks? If a check catches one person who shouldn't have a gun, it's worth it. Why does anyone need an assault weapon? Why does anyone need an automatic weapon? We just can't go on like this, and if we can reduce the violence by .005%, it's worth it.

What would Jesus do? No rationalizing, all you Christians out there. I suppose someone will tell me that Noah was armed in the ark. Or Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple with an Uzi.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> If the figures for violent crime in England and Wales come from the Daily Mail (Mail Online), they deserve more scrutiny. Are you seriously comparing England and Wales with South Africa, where even the Mail concedes that South Africa has more than 20,000 murders each year, compared with UK's 921 in 2007? An affray in England & Wales is recorded as a violent crime, even when no-one is injured. And, I thought this debate was about gun crime.
> 
> No-one with any sense should take notice of the Mail. This is a rag with a very definite agenda - it is right wing and misogynistic, and, by the way, was an enthusiastic supporter of Hitler in the 1930s.


Anne as you see the holy rollers will even tell you what is going on in your own country. They don't even comprehend the damage they are doing here to the U.S. They are a sorry lot. I was inundated with messages from England concerning the latest mass shooting once again asking why this is happening here and all I know is the bible carrying right also believes everyone should have access to as many guns and ammo as they can get there hands on and then out the other side of their mouths comes it is the fault of too much gun control and too many laws and laws that are not being enforced. They don't even realize that they continually contradict their own beliefs and reasons. They are determined to drag us back to the days of guns and lawlessness. They are scared to death of gangs shooting and yet that is exactly what they are asking for so they can have their own armed gangs. To what end? A race war? another civil war? and to what end? So the south can rise again and we return to the rule of those good old boys and girls? They are insane, totally insane. How many more people must dies before the right comes back to it's senses?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> President Obama waived a provision designed to prevent the supply of arms to terrorist groups to... President Obama waived a provision of federal law designed to prevent the supply of arms to terrorist groups to clear the way for the U.S. to provide military assistance to "vetted" opposition groups fighting Syrian dictator Bashar Assad.
> Some elements of the Syrian opposition are associated with radical Islamic terrorist groups, including al Qaeda, which was responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks in New York, Washington, D.C., and Shanksville, Pa., in 2001. Assad's regime is backed by Iran and Hezbollah.
> The president, citing his authority under the Arms Export Control Act, announced today that he would "waive the prohibitions in sections 40 and 40A of the AECA related to such a transaction."
> Those two sections prohibit sending weaponry to countries described in section 40(d): "The prohibitions contained in this section apply with respect to a country if the Secretary of State determines that the government of that country has repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism," Congress stated in the Arms Control Export Act.
> ...


YAWN


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't know if you are right or wrong. I do have to wonder though, if S/He is always with us what kind of SOB is always there and lets those beautiful babies in Newtown or any other town suffer pain because we make bad choices?
In my mind, God is there, S/he did her/his thing, put existence in motion and is now simply an observer. 
It makes no sense to me that the beneficent God I acknowledge would hurt people if S/he could prevent it. 
It certainly doesn't make any sense that S/he allows those doozies on Wall Street to live better and stressfree lives while others are killing themselves working and having to hear some judgmental jerk talk about their bad choices. 
I don't know, I will never know while I remain on this earth. Belief isn't logical, is it?



MaidInBedlam said:


> Someone will probably post something about how wrong I am about this, but as I understand it, He's always with us. We, being naturally imperfect, don't always accept Him and/or act accordingly, and sometimes he doesn't intervene on our behalf. Those two things being the case, we can easily get into masses of trouble. Saint Augustine managed to reconcile the fact that God is omniscient and omnipresent with the fact that we have free will, but I'm not awake enough yet to restate his reasoning.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Get them treatment? Then like most of the rest of us they won't want a gun.



peacegoddess said:


> Joeysomma,
> 
> Do you have a suggestion how to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill people?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Anne as you see the holy rollers will even tell you what is going on in your own country. They don't even comprehend the damage they are doing here to the U.S. They are a sorry lot. I was inundated with messages from England concerning the latest mass shooting once again asking why this is happening here and all I know is the bible carrying right also believes everyone should have access to as many guns and ammo as they can get there hands on and then out the other side of their mouths comes it is the fault of too much gun control and too many laws and laws that are not being enforced. They don't even realize that they continually contradict their own beliefs and reasons. They are determined to drag us back to the days of guns and lawlessness. They are scared to death of gangs shooting and yet that is exactly what they are asking for so they can have their own armed gangs. To what end? A race war? another civil war? and to what end? So the south can rise again and we return to the rule of those good old boys and girls? They are insane, totally insane. How many more people must dies before the right comes back to it's senses?


Cheeky, I have to admit that I was a little taken aback by the post. Actually, taken aback doesn't quite cover my reaction to what I read. I believe you colonials are fond of saying something along the lines of "that's like comparing apples and oranges". I thought of another comparison but unfortunately it's not printable in this ladylike company.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why not arm the deer and bunnies?



Poor Purl said:


> In case you need something else to worry about, several states allow blind people to have gun permits, and to own firearms. Not just for self-defense, but also for hunting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If the revolution comes about again, we may as well be ready too.



susanmos2000 said:


> I know. The proliferation of guns in our country and the mindless senseless acts of violence they create make me ashamed. I'm not sure why in "the greatest country on earth" so many folks feel they need to arm themselves just to make a trip to the grocery store, but it's an absolute disgrace. Somehow we seem to be moving back through time--if we're once more living in the Wild West, then the mindset of the Middle Ages and punishments like drawing and quartering can't be far behind.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Joey has no new ideas about anything and certainly no real understanding of what is going on in Chicago or anywhere else in her own country. From everything I have read on the FF thread they don't care one bit about black on black crime. If it is black on white that is a whole different matter. I haven't heard of mass murders being carried out by gangs since Al Capone and they were white as I recall. The mass murders happening continuously in our country are being committed almost entirely by young white males who used legally purchased guns that they either bought themselves or got from a relative. Many of these people, as was true of yesterday's shooter had serious mental health issues but he was still able to legally purchase guns and use them to kill another group of innocent people. I don't believe joey understands that blacks in Chicago gangs are not causing these mass murders. They are two entirely separate situations and both are tragic. Unless, she can show some connection that we are not aware of I will assume she hasn't a clue what she is talking about.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky, they have no desire to understand anything about gun violence....or any other problem. They're just looking for a jingle to use to rally the other idiots.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if joey has an answer for why we are the most violent country in the world and why we have the most murders in the U.S. than any other civilized country? Gun control is the most lax in this country and the countries with tight gun control don't have all these deaths. Please tell us why this is joey? Your argument about Chicago and strict gun laws doesn't hold water. Do you even grasp the difference between what is happening in Chicago is not the same as this increasing phenomenon of mass murders. I don't think you do.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Never heard that before. Where did you find it? I'll wait.



joeysomma said:


> In the late 1990s, England moved from stringent controls to a complete ban of all handguns and many types of long guns. Hundreds of thousands of guns were confiscated from those owners law abiding enough to turn them in to authorities. Without suggesting this caused violence, the bans ineffectiveness was such that by the year 2000 violent crime had so in creased that England and Wales had Europes highest violent crime rate, far surpassing even the United States.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you have ANY idea why joey and snakeinthelake are posting in POV Liberal? Trying to join us? I send a black ball.



susanmos2000 said:


> YAWN (five times)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky, I know you're busy. I assume you are too wise to do research on something your mind tells you is a lie. Perhaps we should just say, 'You are lying. Go away.'



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Joey you don't have a clue what you are talking about. I do. You are either lying or your sources are making up a bunch of C--P and then you are eating it up just like all the other C--P you have been devouring and then you come on the Liberal home thread and vomit up that same disgusting partially digested C--P here. I have many friends in England and have been there many times and just last night I got emails and facebook messages from several of them once again asking what is going on in the U.S. I would suggest you go over there and try to break into a farmhouse in rural England. You will promptly be blown away by a hunting rifle. They learned after Dunblane that things had to change. I have walked the streets of London at 2:00am and have no harm come to me and it is one of the largest cities in the world. People there do not feel the need to be armed to the hilt and they do not feel their government has taken away their rights. You are simply imposing your own very perverted view of this country and the world on others and you are wrong! Their may be a bit of increase in certain types of crimes but they are not crimes of pointless murder and mass murder. What is wrong with you that you cannot grasp that? Joey you are a babbling fool for posting such trash and nobody even believes you anymore. I used to see some intelligent posts from you and could interact with you with respect but you are so into you own delusions you can't even carry on an intelligent conversation any more and I feel very sorry for you. Please stop these posts, joey. You are fighting windmills and accomplishing absolutely nothing. Put down your sword and take a break. Your misguided religious zeal is really taking a toll on you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Aren't they fun to read? I hope most of them have comics.
> 
> But I meant I've never seen references to The Washington Post or AP or even USA Today. They're always one of these outer-dimensional sites.
> 
> Speaking of which, was Miss Kansas a soldier, or was she really "solider" (more 3-dimensional, so to speak), as the quote has her?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh Purl, you're a better proof-reader than I. I usually catch them, but I missed that one.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always wanted to open a dealership......SUZI'S UZIS SUZUKIS AND ISUZUS. Something for every patriotic, gun-toting yuppie out there. Good investment?



alcameron said:


> I don't care right now what any study says. We have to do something, and the logical place to start is with some type of gun control laws. Who would it hurt? Why would anyone complain about background checks? If a check catches one person who shouldn't have a gun, it's worth it. Why does anyone need an assault weapon? Why does anyone need an automatic weapon? We just can't go on like this, and if we can reduce the violence by .005%, it's worth it.
> 
> What would Jesus do? No rationalizing, all you Christians out there. I suppose someone will tell me that Noah was armed in the ark. Or Jesus chased the money changers out of the temple with an Uzi.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nap time.



BrattyPatty said:


> YAWN


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Oh Purl, you're a better proof-reader than I. I usually catch them, but I missed that one.


This is my *only* claim to fame. I have been told by several people in publishing that I am an "impeccable" proofreader. High praise, indeed!

My son - who tries to compete with me in matters like that - recently sent me an email showing a photo of a bus with a sign saying that it was going to XXXX Palza. The title of the email: Why proffreading is important.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Never heard that before. Where did you find it? I'll wait.


From the blog Raw Story, source Agence France-Presse:

"But the 2012 murder rate  4.7 murders per 100,000 people  was significantly higher than in most other wealthy nations.

"The comparable rate is 0.4 in Japan, 0.8 in Germany, 1.0 in Australia 1.1 in France and 1.2 in Britain, according to figures compiled by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development.

"Among nations assessed by the Paris-based club of market economies, only Brazil, Estonia, Mexico and Russia had higher murder rates."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I always wanted to open a dealership......SUZI'S UZIS SUZUKIS AND ISUZUS. Something for every patriotic, gun-toting yuppie out there. Good investment?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Abso------lutely.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Well, well, another mass murder in the "greatest Country on Earth".
12 dead again and that is more in one day than some foreign Countries have in several decades.
During my recent visit abroad I was asked over and over again why there is so much violence here.
My answer was Guns, Guns and more Guns.
And a Christian Nation we call ourselves?
I learned that since 2006 more than 200 mass murders have taken place in the USA. 
Not very Christian behavior is it.
My Email is on overload about the shooting of yesterday. 
All I can say that we know how to fix some of the problems but
some Politicians just do not care to do so.

I read the very disturbing threat to the Life of Huckleberry.
Did not those come from Women who claim to be Christians?
I said long ago, that I fear the terror within our Country much more than any from beyond our Borders.
I never imagined however that a threat on the Life of a Person here would ever be made.
Does no-one monitor the activites here?


Once I am settled in my new Home I will become very active for change.
I shall have lots of time to give and will donate it gladly.

I am still on the move and am enjoying every place I visit.
Stay well everybody.
Ingried


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Well, well, another mass murder in the "greatest Country on Earth".
> 12 dead again and that is more in one day than some foreign Countries have in several decades.
> During my recent visit abroad I was asked over and over again why there is so much violence here.
> My answer was Guns, Guns and more Guns.
> ...


Thanks for looking in, Ingried. Yes, the news is horrible--both on the site and in the nation at large. Seems to be a connection: some people will resort to violence and threats of violence to solve their problems--put a gun in their hands and things turn deadly.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> President Obama waived a provision designed to prevent the supply of arms to terrorist groups to... President Obama waived a provision of federal law designed to prevent the supply of arms to terrorist groups to clear the way for the U.S. to provide military assistance to "vetted" opposition groups fighting Syrian dictator Bashar Assad.
> Some elements of the Syrian opposition are associated with radical Islamic terrorist groups, including al Qaeda, which was responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks in New York, Washington, D.C., and Shanksville, Pa., in 2001. Assad's regime is backed by Iran and Hezbollah.
> The president, citing his authority under the Arms Export Control Act, announced today that he would "waive the prohibitions in sections 40 and 40A of the AECA related to such a transaction."
> Those two sections prohibit sending weaponry to countries described in section 40(d): "The prohibitions contained in this section apply with respect to a country if the Secretary of State determines that the government of that country has repeatedly provided support for acts of international terrorism," Congress stated in the Arms Control Export Act.
> ...


Huh?


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

galinipper said:


> Actually, Cheeks of A Blighter, I am brave. Again thank you for another compliment.


Yes you are, and smart


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Yes you are, and smart


 "Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind."--The Upanishads


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> "Abiding in the midst of ignorance, thinking themselves wise and learned, fools go aimlessly hither and thither, like blind led by the blind."--The Upanishads


Yes, very true, Susan. I am surprised she posted in here after her blatant threat to Huck.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I was listening to the news and members of the Tea Party want the government to shut down. And they call themselves Americans? Look at all of the American people this will hurt.
I worry most about seniors who will not receive their SS checks that they depend upon to live. 
Get smart people.Vote those idiots out of office.!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, very true, Susan. I am surprised she posted in here after her blatant threat to Huck.


It does seem strange--a woman so full of hate she posts a death threat, then hangs around the people who witnessed it. Definitely odd.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was listening to the news and members of the Tea Party want the government to shut down. And they call themselves Americans? Look at all of the American people this will hurt.
> I worry most about seniors who will not receive their SS checks that they depend upon to live.


Exactly what I was thinking, Patty. Millions and millions of conservatives receive money from the government--talk about cutting one's nose off to spite one's face!

But what's their motivation for taking this amazing step? Are they trying to force Obama out of office or something?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

My question is why can't we at least have background checks framed in language that highlights mental illness. So I want a gun, I have to fill out a request, the request is filtered through a database that lists people who have a history of mental illness, though some may disagrree, I do not have a history of mental illness so I get to buy a gun (I really do not want one) Another person who as undergone the same process comes up as a registered mental patient, they do not get to have a gun. Now there may very well be some flaws here, but i am betting such a process might have kept a few guns out of the hands of some of the people who perpetuated a few of the killing sprees of the past 20 years.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> My question is why can't we at least have background checks framed in language that highlights mental illness. So I want a gun, I have to fill out a request, the request is filtered through a database that lists people who have a history of mental illness, though some may disagrree, I do not have a history of mental illness so I get to buy a gun (I really do not want one) Another person who as undergone the same process comes up as a registered mental patient, they do not get to have a gun. Now there may very well be some flaws here, but i am betting such a process might have kept a few guns out of the hands of some of the people who perpetuated a few of the killing sprees of the past 20 years.


Of course that's very sensible--so sensible that the NRA won't have a thing to do with it. I suppose they feel that it some kind of "slippery slope" thing--give in on one little thing and soon all the guns will be wrenched from every set of hands.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course that's very sensible--so sensible that the NRA won't have a thing to do with it. I suppose they feel that it some kind of "slippery slope" thing--give in on one little thing and soon all the guns will be wrenched from every set of hands.


Oh right! I forgot about hard nosed people who cannot come to a consensus on the issue that people with mental illnesses are dangerous if they have guns! Pardon my reasonableness!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Oh right! I forgot about hard nosed people who cannot come to a consensus on the issue that people with mental illnesses are dangerous if they have guns! Pardon my reasonableness!


Has no place when discussing gun control (or any issue, for that matter) with the ultra-conservatives! 

Actually I think some states (California among them) do have laws that prevent the mentally ill from owning guns. The problem there is that it's up to each state to decide and, as we all know, most of the gun nuts (whether certifiable or not) have no qualms about owning guns illegally. They buy them from friends, at gun shows, steal them, get the parts and construct them themselves etc etc.

My chosen fix would be to punish HARSHLY any crime that involves use of a gun, with triple the penalties if the gun proves to be illegal.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Hey, ladies--I thought we all could use something to raise our spirits...how about getting together on Saturday for a most elegant affair? Think posh--elaborately coiffed hair, our very nicest dresses, high heels (for those who can stand the pain!), and the jewelry we only wear on ultra-special occasions. Let's put all our energies toward an evening of lighthearted fun--please, check all serious and/or disagreeable subjects at the door. Partners and spouses welcome, and there will be a nanny in attendance for those bringing children and grandchildren!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Saturday night date night to the max.



susanmos2000 said:


> Hey, ladies--I thought we all could use something to raise our spirits...how about getting together on Saturday for a most elegant affair? Think posh--elaborately coiffed hair, our very nicest dresses, high heels (for those who can stand the pain!), and the jewelry we only wear on ultra-special occasions. Let's put all our energies toward an evening of lighthearted fun--please, check all serious and/or disagreeable subjects at the door. Partners and spouses welcome, and there will be a nanny in attendance for those bringing children and grandchildren!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Saturday night date night to the max.


Absolutely! Fine food, stimulating conversation, and an opportunity to dress to the nines...who could ask for more?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sounds as fun as our women's conference was!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

And for those unable to arrange transportation on such short notice....


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Tip him well, ladies!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We need a woman in charge.



peacegoddess said:


> Oh right! I forgot about hard nosed people who cannot come to a consensus on the issue that people with mental illnesses are dangerous if they have guns! Pardon my reasonableness!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hey, ladies--I thought we all could use something to raise our spirits...how about getting together on Saturday for a most elegant affair? Think posh--elaborately coiffed hair, our very nicest dresses, high heels (for those who can stand the pain!), and the jewelry we only wear on ultra-special occasions. Let's put all our energies toward an evening of lighthearted fun--please, check all serious and/or disagreeable subjects at the door. Partners and spouses welcome, and there will be a nanny in attendance for those bringing children and grandchildren!


I would love to come, but please no stretch limo for me. I have only ridden in these vehicles on two occasions. The first to my mother's funeral and the second to my brother-inlaw's funeral, so they have a very sad connection for me.

I will leave the choice of venue to you, but if we are going to Ubud I wold suggest Bridges Restaurant.

I will wear my lead crystals, they do sparkle so and are over 100 years old. Oh, I think I will put some clothes on as well, just in case I dribble food when i eat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Eve, you are my kind of girl. I dribble too. Must be the big front porch.



EveMCooke said:


> I would love to come, but please no stretch limo for me. I have only ridden in these vehicles on two occasions. The first to my mother's funeral and the second to my brother-inlaw's funeral, so they have a very sad connection for me.
> 
> I will leave the choice of venue to you, but if we are going to Ubud I wold suggest Bridges Restaurant.
> 
> I will wear my lead crystals, they do sparkle so and are over 100 years old. Oh, I think I will put some clothes on as well, just in case I dribble food when i eat.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I would love to come, but please no stretch limo for me. I have only ridden in these vehicles on two occasions. The first to my mother's funeral and the second to my brother-inlaw's funeral, so they have a very sad connection for me.


No problem, my dear. How about this? Money is no object on this Night Of Nights.

(I know what you mean about limos. I've only ridden in one once, to my brother's wedding. A happy occasion, but being in a moving vehicle with so many other people gave me the eerie feeling of riding in a paddy wagon).


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No problem, my dear. How about this? Money is no object on this Night Of Nights.
> 
> (I know what you mean about limos. I've only ridden in one once, to my brother's wedding. A happy occasion, but being in a moving vehicle with so many other people gave me the eerie feeling of riding in a paddy wagon).


yes, thank you, that is definetely my style of car. As for the chaufer, can I bring my own? I think Sean Connery is available for the night. I will let him talk and I will go all goose pimply just listening to him.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Eve, you are my kind of girl. I dribble too. Must be the big front porch.


damemary
I have been busy with a "special" friend to assess the threat on my life and am behind on some chores. Just took a minute to look in and your "big front porch" has me in stitches. THANK YOU for such a wonderful description. I am ready for some humor.
I am getting my footing back on solid ground and hope to join the Party. The threat is really disturbing many people and I am getting sound advice. The hate monitors are in place now.
Thank you again everyone for your support. Huck


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hey, ladies--I thought we all could use something to raise our spirits...how about getting together on Saturday for a most elegant affair? Think posh--elaborately coiffed hair, our very nicest dresses, high heels (for those who can stand the pain!), and the jewelry we only wear on ultra-special occasions. Let's put all our energies toward an evening of lighthearted fun--please, check all serious and/or disagreeable subjects at the door. Partners and spouses welcome, and there will be a nanny in attendance for those bringing children and grandchildren!


Sounds too fun! I can't wait to show off my jewelry and newest gown!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I have been busy with a "special" friend to assess the threat on my life and am behind on some chores. Just took a minute to look in and your "big front porch" has me in stitches. THANK YOU for such a wonderful description. I am ready for some humor.
> I am getting my footing back on solid ground and hope to join the Party. The threat is really disturbing many people and I am getting sound advice. The hate monitors are in place now.
> Thank you again everyone for your support. Huck


That's what friends are for Huck!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can count on us as we depend on you. Take care.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I have been busy with a "special" friend to assess the threat on my life and am behind on some chores. Just took a minute to look in and your "big front porch" has me in stitches. THANK YOU for such a wonderful description. I am ready for some humor.
> I am getting my footing back on solid ground and hope to join the Party. The threat is really disturbing many people and I am getting sound advice. The hate monitors are in place now.
> Thank you again everyone for your support. Huck


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hey, ladies--I thought we all could use something to raise our spirits...how about getting together on Saturday for a most elegant affair? Think posh--elaborately coiffed hair, our very nicest dresses, high heels (for those who can stand the pain!), and the jewelry we only wear on ultra-special occasions. Let's put all our energies toward an evening of lighthearted fun--please, check all serious and/or disagreeable subjects at the door. Partners and spouses welcome, and there will be a nanny in attendance for those bringing children and grandchildren!


I'll be there. Sounds wonderful!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I would love to come, but please no stretch limo for me. I have only ridden in these vehicles on two occasions. The first to my mother's funeral and the second to my brother-inlaw's funeral, so they have a very sad connection for me.
> 
> I will leave the choice of venue to you, but if we are going to Ubud I wold suggest Bridges Restaurant.
> 
> I will wear my lead crystals, they do sparkle so and are over 100 years old. Oh, I think I will put some clothes on as well, just in case I dribble food when i eat.


Good one Eve, or we could tie a large linen table napkin around your neck like a bib.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I have been busy with a "special" friend to assess the threat on my life and am behind on some chores. Just took a minute to look in and your "big front porch" has me in stitches. THANK YOU for such a wonderful description. I am ready for some humor.
> I am getting my footing back on solid ground and hope to join the Party. The threat is really disturbing many people and I am getting sound advice. The hate monitors are in place now.
> Thank you again everyone for your support. Huck


You are safe with us Huck. I know how upsetting this is for you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bless them all and those who loved them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

My DH can't make it, so he called this man to escort me to the party.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope he can keep up with you.



BrattyPatty said:


> My DH can't make it, so he called this man to escort me to the party.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I have been busy with a "special" friend to assess the threat on my life and am behind on some chores. Just took a minute to look in and your "big front porch" has me in stitches. THANK YOU for such a wonderful description. I am ready for some humor.
> I am getting my footing back on solid ground and hope to join the Party. The threat is really disturbing many people and I am getting sound advice. The hate monitors are in place now.
> Thank you again everyone for your support. Huck


Really good to hear from you, Huck--scaring you off the site was of course one of the things the righties hoped to accomplish. I'm glad too that you're investigating the legal ramifications of LTL's death threat--having it all there for everyone to see much make the job much much easier.
Take care!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really good to hear from you, Huck--scaring you off the site was of course one of the things the righties hoped to accomplish. I'm glad too that you're investigating the legal ramifications of LTL's death threat--having it all there for everyone to see much make the job much much easier.
> Take care!


susanmos2000
It is a pleasure to see how much support People are giving Huck.
I am enjoying another city right now. Life is good.
Have a nice day.
Ingried


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> My DH can't make it, so he called this man to escort me to the party.


Who is he? He looks familiar, but cannot place a name with the face.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I think my conservative "education" is coming to an end. I have taken a self-imposed course on the Glenn Beck show by listening 3 mornings a week while driving to and from my gym. He's so predictable! I know exactly how he's going to view an issue, and I haven't been wrong yet. One of the core emotions that one needs to have to follow that line of (non)thinking is FEAR. All his beliefs depend on fear:you carry a gun because you're scared of everyone, you obey God because you're afraid of hell and Satan, you're afraid of Obama and Michelle because they're black and from Chicago, you fear HIllary because she belongs to "the elite," you fear evolution because it might go against scripture, you fear textbooks because your kids might be exposed to an idea, you fear sex education because your child might have sex----and on and on it goes. What a way to live! This is how people are brain-washed and "kept in line." When people are surrounded by this kind of propaganda and stay in the same rut with the same friends and the same conservative news sources, they turn into little sheep.
I've had enough of Glen (or Glenn?).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Isn't that Justin Timberlake with a beard?



peacegoddess said:


> Who is he? He looks familiar, but cannot place a name with the face.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Not Justin


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are a braver man than I Gunga Din.



alcameron said:


> Well, I think my conservative "education" is coming to an end. I have taken a self-imposed course on the Glenn Beck show by listening 3 mornings a week while driving to and from my gym. He's so predictable! I know exactly how he's going to view an issue, and I haven't been wrong yet. One of the core emotions that one needs to have to follow that line of (non)thinking is FEAR. All his beliefs depend on fear:you carry a gun because you're scared of everyone, you obey God because you're afraid of hell and Satan, you're afraid of Obama and Michelle because they're black and from Chicago, you fear HIllary because she belongs to "the elite," you fear evolution because it might go against scripture, you fear textbooks because your kids might be exposed to an idea, you fear sex education because your child might have sex----and on and on it goes. What a way to live! This is how people are brain-washed and "kept in line." When people are surrounded by this kind of propaganda and stay in the same rut with the same friends and the same conservative news sources, they turn into little sheep.
> I've had enough of Glen (or Glenn?).


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So Who???



alcameron said:


> Not Justin


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> In case you need something else to worry about, several states allow blind people to have gun permits, and to own firearms. Not just for self-defense, but also for hunting.


Your post shows a profound level of ignorance. One is that the term "blind" covers awide range of visual impairments. Not all people who are considered legally blind are totally blind.

I'm cheered to know that people who are blind can have guns for self-defense and hunting. As citizens, they deserve to reap all the benefits of citizenship and enjoy all the rights given all of us in the Constitution. To oppose gun ownership for the blind is to say that they are second class citizens, and shouldn't enjoy all the rights the Constitution grants to every American citizen.

One of the bigger, far more important issues blind people are fighting for now is adding a way for them to identify the value of paper money with the addition of a tactile identifier. As things stand now, they have to ask what the demoninations of their paper money are, and do an elaborate jo of folding and placing them in their wallets. This is blatant discrimination, and an example of how many ways we force blind people to be dependent.

Think before you make absurd statements about the abilities of blind people, and all kinds of other people who are disabled. If you haven't spent time around a large number of diversely disabled people, you don't have a clue about the abilities they have.

To seek to deny people who are disabled any of the rights granted to all American citizens by the Constitution shows that you are afraid of disabled people and want them to be hidden away, stripped of certain rights, so you don't have to see them in public. There are far better things to be afraid of. You should be ashamed of yourself, to the same extent I am disgusted by the prejudice your post quoted above reveals.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Huckleberry sounds like the little girl at school that keeps pulling another's hair and then runs crying to the teacher when her hair gets pulled.


???

There's a psychological phenomenon known as projection, in which one person, say J, denies her own nasty qualities and claims they are those of another person, say H.

For example, suppose J were to barge in to a group of people who were having a discussion and change the subject to one she preferred. If the group were to ask her to leave, she may complain that she was being picked on, even though she was the cause of their ill feelings, and may actually accuse one of the group of starting the unpleasantness.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know on this one. A pilot with less than perfect vision will not be granted a license because it is deemed dangerous for them to fly. Wouldn't it be dangerous for someone who could not identify the target clearly to fire a weapon? Just asking.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Your post shows a profound level of ignorance. One is that the term "blind" covers awide range of visual impairmens. Not all people who are considered legally blind are totally blind.
> 
> I'm cheered to know that people who are blind can have guns for self-defense and hunting. As citizens, they deserve to reap all the benefits of citizenship and enjoy all the rights given all of us in the Constitution. To oppose gun ownership for the blind is to say that they are second class citizens, and shouldn't enjoy all the rights the Constitution grants to every American citizen.
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Well, I think my conservative "education" is coming to an end. I have taken a self-imposed course on the Glenn Beck show by listening 3 mornings a week while driving to and from my gym. He's so predictable! I know exactly how he's going to view an issue, and I haven't been wrong yet. One of the core emotions that one needs to have to follow that line of (non)thinking is FEAR. All his beliefs depend on fear:you carry a gun because you're scared of everyone, you obey God because you're afraid of hell and Satan, you're afraid of Obama and Michelle because they're black and from Chicago, you fear HIllary because she belongs to "the elite," you fear evolution because it might go against scripture, you fear textbooks because your kids might be exposed to an idea, you fear sex education because your child might have sex----and on and on it goes. What a way to live! This is how people are brain-washed and "kept in line." When people are surrounded by this kind of propaganda and stay in the same rut with the same friends and the same conservative news sources, they turn into little sheep.
> I've had enough of Glen (or Glenn?).


You said it perfectly, Andrea. Sad, for them isn't it?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I don't know on this one. A pilot with less than perfect vision will not be granted a license because it is deemed dangerous for them to fly. Wouldn't it be dangerous for someone who could not identify the target clearly to fire a weapon? Just asking.


Well, then you have the opportunity to educate yourself. Blind people do fly airplanes, soley using instrument control Sure, they probably will be rejected to fly for a big passenger airline, but some can and do own and fly smaller planes.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ???
> 
> There's a psychological phenomenon known as projection, in which one person, say J, denies her own nasty qualities and claims they are those of another person, say H.
> 
> For example, suppose J were to barge in to a group of people who were having a discussion and change the subject to one she preferred. If the group were to ask her to leave, she may complain that she was being picked on, even though she was the cause of their ill feelings, and may actually accuse one of the group of starting the unpleasantness.


You hit the nail on the head, Purl. There is that element of people like J who are good at repeating this type of behavior and I am not going to dignify their inane muttering with a reply. It's a waste of time and breath. Isn't that the definition of Insanity? : Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
But what would Einstein know? J and people like her believe they are superior to all others and only they have all the answers. They can even read other's minds and answer for them. Now isn't that special?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Your post shows a profound level of ignorance. One is that the term "blind" covers awide range of visual impairmens. Not all people who are considered legally blind are totally blind.
> 
> I'm cheered to know that people who are blind can have guns for self-defense and hunting. As citizens, they deserve to reap all the benefits of citizenship and enjoy all the rights given all of us in the Constitution. To oppose gun ownership for the blind is to say that they are second class citizens, and shouldn't enjoy all the rights the Constitution grants to every American citizen.
> 
> ...


Apparently I hit a nerve. You must know someone with vision problems, as I do. My husband of 49-1/2 years has vision in only one eye, and he has refused to learn to drive because he has problems with depth perception, which I think is only sensible. A car can become a weapon in the wrong hands.

Even legally blind people are impaired enough to be imperfect shots, and even fully sighted people have imperfect control over their weapons. I have no objection to a blind person keeping a gun at home for protection (though truthfully if a thief were to come in and be shot, he would be paying a much higher penalty than the law requires for theft). But to allow guns to be used in public, where a child might be mistaken for a bush, or the sound of a sneeze might set off an instinctive pull of a trigger, doesn't make sense to me.

It's not law but nature that makes people unequal. I should be a great singer, making zillions, but my voice isn't that good. And I probably wouldn't even cause harm if I were to sing in public (though there may be some controversy about that).

I have no desire to "hide" people with disabilities; I know some teenage girls who played basketball in the Para-Olympics, and we were all very proud of them. I have a deaf friend who advanced educationally several levels above her hearing sister, and I've always chosen to spend time with the deaf woman because she's so much brighter than her older, hearing sister. (I know, this sounds like "Some of my best friends are *******," but these are just a couple of examples.)

Apparently you think everyone should have a gun, something I believe would send us back to the Law of the Jungle. I would like to see it harder for people to get guns. But right now, nobody is tested before he is given a gun license, as people are tested for a driver's license, and the probability is that some vision-impaired shooters would not have passed such a test.

I may have things to be ashamed of, but not the one you accuse me of.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, then you have the opportunity to educate yourself. Blind people do fly airplanes, soley using instrument control Sure, they probably will be rejected to fly for a big passenger airline, but some can and do own and fly smaller planes.


I am disappointed that you are back in your "teacher going to show you how" and very judgemental mode. MIB. I thought maybe you had moved beyond that road block in your life's journey. You have no idea who any of the rest of us know who are disabled or what our experiences are. All I will say is I don't have the best eyesight in the world and I would hope that if I become a danger to others I will have enough sense to stop driving so I don't hurt others or myself. My dad knew when to call it quits even though it greatly limited his freedom to get around. My mother on the other hand had to be coerced into doing so and before she got off the roads she had caused damage to property but thank God not to life. You have shown great disrespect to the other ladies on the thread and I am asking you to please stop. No one is doing this to you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I just wanted to comment on this point that you make:


MaidInBedlam said:


> One of the bigger, far more important issues blind people are fighting for now is adding a way for them to identify the value of paper money with the addition of a tactile identifier. As things stand now, they have to ask what the demoninations of their paper money are, and do an elaborate jo of folding and placing them in their wallets. This is blatant discrimination, and an example of how many ways we force blind people to be dependent.


In many other countries, the denominations of bills are indicated by their size. I don't know whether this practice continues with the euro, but I always thought it was eminently sensible. We should make our bills easily recognizable by feel.

Who in your circle is vision-impaired? This subject seems to be very important to you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> J and people like her believe they are superior to all others and only they have all the answers. They can even read other's minds and answer for them. Now isn't that special?


It must be a God-given talent, because the rest of us don't seem to have it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently I hit a nerve. You must know someone with vision problems, as I do. My husband of 49-1/2 years has vision in only one eye, and he has refused to learn to drive because he has problems with depth perception, which I think is only sensible. A car can become a weapon in the wrong hands.
> 
> Even legally blind people are impaired enough to be imperfect shots, and even fully sighted people have imperfect control over their weapons. I have no objection to a blind person keeping a gun at home for protection (though truthfully if a thief were to come in and be shot, he would be paying a much higher penalty than the law requires for theft). But to allow guns to be used in public, where a child might be mistaken for a bush, or the sound of a sneeze might set off an instinctive pull of a trigger, doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> ...


Purl, MIB can be a very judgmental woman and this may be the first time you have seen this so don't take it personally. She seemed to have realized a short time ago that she was being offensive and heavy handed to her friends but she seems to have lapsed back into her old ways. This thread was not started for Liberal ladies to attack other Liberal ladies or others who post her who truly desire to have a civil and respectful dialog with others. I don't need to mention any names as you figured out who all the players are already. Enjoy your day.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky, this _is_ the first time I've been spoken to like that on KP (okay, maybe the God Squad try to make me feel like an ignoramus, but it doesn't work when they do it). However:


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Purl, MIB can be a very judgmental woman and this may be the first time you have seen this so don't take it personally. She seemed to have realized a short time ago that she was being offensive and heavy handed to her friends but she seems to have lapsed back into her old ways. This thread was not started for Liberal ladies to attack other Liberal ladies or others who post her who truly desire to have a civil and respectful dialog with others. I don't need to mention any names as you figured out who all the players are already. Enjoy your day.


I hate being called a "lady." Makes me think that I should put on a neat suit with pencil skirt and pearls. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm a woman, not a lady.

But, as I said to her, I think I hit on something very important to MiB. I would encourage her to get it off her chest.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Cheeky, this _is_ the first time I've been spoken to like that on KP (okay, maybe the God Squad try to make me feel like an ignoramus, but it doesn't work when they do it). However:I hate being called a "lady." Makes me think that I should put on a neat suit with pencil skirt and pearls. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm a woman, not a lady.
> 
> But, as I said to her, I think I hit on something very important to MiB. I would encourage her to get it off her chest.


Purl I stand corrected and I respect your request to be addressed as a woman so I will honor that.  Seems like you and MIB can hash things out together and I wish both of you a pleasant day!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Has she ever named as a source something that everyone might read, rather than strange blogs and websites? It does get tedious reading all this made-up nonsense.


Why don't you prove that this is made up? Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim. I'll wait.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> YAWN


You don't think supplying known terrorist groups with weapons is wrong? Supplying terrorists with weapons IS the threat to the US, not Syria's civil war. Maybe we should demand they sign a waiver stating they will not use these weapons against Americans. Maybe do a background check on them and have a waiting period before providing the weapons. After all, Alcameron says we have to start somewhere and why not with background checks for terrorists?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> ???
> 
> There's a psychological phenomenon known as projection, in which one person, say J, denies her own nasty qualities and claims they are those of another person, say H.
> 
> For example, suppose J were to barge in to a group of people who were having a discussion and change the subject to one she preferred. If the group were to ask her to leave, she may complain that she was being picked on, even though she was the cause of their ill feelings, and may actually accuse one of the group of starting the unpleasantness.


Poor Purl
Exactly. They are trying, very hard, aren't they! It won't work. Is it not interesting how some people are getting themselves into hot water trying to resurect others? Not smart at all.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> My question is why can't we at least have background checks framed in language that highlights mental illness. So I want a gun, I have to fill out a request, the request is filtered through a database that lists people who have a history of mental illness, though some may disagrree, I do not have a history of mental illness so I get to buy a gun (I really do not want one) Another person who as undergone the same process comes up as a registered mental patient, they do not get to have a gun. Now there may very well be some flaws here, but i am betting such a process might have kept a few guns out of the hands of some of the people who perpetuated a few of the killing sprees of the past 20 years.


I wouldn't have a problem with that. I do wonder if this background check would actually reveal all people with a mental illness. There are many families out there, on both sides of the political fence, that do their best to hide "family problems of that sort". Should the other family members not be able to have a gun if there is mental illness in the family, on the chance the patient will get their hands on the gun? Will the mental illness be defined, perhaps be broken down to what kind of an illness it is? Who will be the ones to take on this task? If the patient is "cured", does that mean they can have a gun? Quite the undertaking, no?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl

mental illness cured? Wow that is medical progress which has bypassed me. Who has advanced that far , pretty please.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

I listened to another Benghazi hearing this morning. The Republicans sure are not short on Nuts. I love to read their faces when they are very politely get shot out of their saddles. One real grandstander had more than his share of problems keeping Tripoly and Benghazi separated. That is what happens when you have to "buy" someone-else stuff and put it to use. Why are we paying these losers? That is Welfare really wasted.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> 
> mental illness cured? Wow that is medical progress which has bypassed me. Who has advanced that far , pretty please.


As usual your comprehension is non existent. I merely asked the question that if the mental illness is "cured" (note the quotes), would the person be able to get a gun.

Naturally in your haste to criticize me you got it all wrong again. Why am I not surprised?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I don't know on this one. A pilot with less than perfect vision will not be granted a license because it is deemed dangerous for them to fly. Wouldn't it be dangerous for someone who could not identify the target clearly to fire a weapon? Just asking.


Well, I know 2 blind people who own and fly small planes. They do so by using instruments only, which is actually a safer way to go. People sometimes have a hard time seeing that there's somethig wrong about how they're flying. Their eyes play tricks on them. An excellent example of this is JFK, Jr., who throught he could fly his plane without using instruments and paid the highest price for that. If I remember correctly, he wasn't through learning to use instruments solely, and hadn't been approved to fly that way. As I said, a commercial airline probably isn't going to hire any visually impaired pilots, but blind people can and do fly their own small planes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, I know 2 blind people who own and fly small planes. They do so by using instruments only, which is actually a safer way to go. People sometimes have a hard time seeing that there's somethig wrong about how they're flying. Their eyes play tricks on them. An excellent example of this is JFK, Jr., who throught he could fly his plane without using instruments and paid the highest price for that. If I remember correctly, he wasn't through learning to use instruments solely, and hadn't been approved to fly that way. As I said, a commercial airline probably isn't going to hire any visually impaired pilots, but blind people can and do fly their own small planes.


I'm surprised by this. At least vision could be a back-up system if instruments failed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good for them (I think.) I'm still not comfortable with it. Small planes ram into mountains all the time around here, not that they're all blind pilots on instrument control. Not everyone can do everything just to be politically correct. Aviation is one field where perfection is expected. IMHO



MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, then you have the opportunity to educate yourself. Blind people do fly airplanes, soley using instrument control Sure, they probably will be rejected to fly for a big passenger airline, but some can and do own and fly smaller planes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo to Cheeky and Poor Purl. Voices of reason in the wilderness...or the asylum.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> You hit the nail on the head, Purl. There is that element of people like J who are good at repeating this type of behavior and I am not going to dignify their inane muttering with a reply. It's a waste of time and breath. Isn't that the definition of Insanity? : Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)
> US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
> But what would Einstein know? J and people like her believe they are superior to all others and only they have all the answers. They can even read other's minds and answer for them. Now isn't that special?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently I hit a nerve. You must know someone with vision problems, as I do. My husband of 49-1/2 years has vision in only one eye, and he has refused to learn to drive because he has problems with depth perception, which I think is only sensible. A car can become a weapon in the wrong hands.
> 
> Even legally blind people are impaired enough to be imperfect shots, and even fully sighted people have imperfect control over their weapons. I have no objection to a blind person keeping a gun at home for protection (though truthfully if a thief were to come in and be shot, he would be paying a much higher penalty than the law requires for theft). But to allow guns to be used in public, where a child might be mistaken for a bush, or the sound of a sneeze might set off an instinctive pull of a trigger, doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why don't you prove that this is made up? Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim. I'll wait.


 :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-( :-(


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't think supplying known terrorist groups with weapons is wrong? Supplying terrorists with weapons IS the threat to the US, not Syria's civil war. Maybe we should demand they sign a waiver stating they will not use these weapons against Americans. Maybe do a background check on them and have a waiting period before providing the weapons. After all, Alcameron says we have to start somewhere and why not with background checks for terrorists?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SOSO solo



soloweygirl said:


> As usual your comprehension is non existent. I merely asked the question that if the mental illness is "cured" (note the quotes), would the person be able to get a gun.
> 
> Naturally in your haste to criticize me you got it all wrong again. Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why don't you prove that this is made up? Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim. I'll wait.


Say what? Was this supposed to make sense?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Prove a negative? Just trying desperately to engage in something other than "you need to die" from lovethelake to Huck with applause from Cherf.

Weak try.



Poor Purl said:


> Say what? Was this supposed to make sense?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You hit the nail on the head, Purl. There is that element of people like J who are good at repeating this type of behavior and I am not going to dignify their inane muttering with a reply. It's a waste of time and breath. Isn't that the definition of Insanity? : Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
> Albert Einstein, (attributed)
> US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
> But what would Einstein know? J and people like her believe they are superior to all others and only they have all the answers. They can even read other's minds and answer for them. Now isn't that special?


Cheeky Blighter
right, what would Einstein know. Just an extraordinary Scientist. It would be more educational in the eyes of some Simpleton here to read "the book on research that God wrote". Can anyone believe the stuff they put out? No wonder much of the younger Generation is lost. They had no guidance how to function in the REAL World. How sad. I think that is Child abuse.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why don't you prove that this is made up? Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim. I'll wait.


soloweygirl
Am I reading what I am reading? Does anyone understand this crap? I rarely use a 4-letter word but could not find anything more appropriate. Does the Communion Wine now contain additives with week-long side-effects? Mind-numbing stuff I mean. Weird things going on after each Sunday Service. Watch for it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Prove a negative? Just trying desperately to engage in something other than "you need to die" from lovethelake to Huck with applause from Cherf.
> 
> Weak try.


Well, after seeing their stone idol crumble into itty-bitty pieces it appears that Solo and other Cherf worshipers are trying to work a miracle with the glue guns and the scotch tape. Anything to get their personal god back together again and returned to the altar. Bleah.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Double post


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I guess anyone who has the money can buy a gun in VA?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with that. I do wonder if this background check would actually reveal all people with a mental illness. There are many families out there, on both sides of the political fence, that do their best to hide "family problems of that sort". Should the other family members not be able to have a gun if there is mental illness in the family, on the chance the patient will get their hands on the gun? Will the mental illness be defined, perhaps be broken down to what kind of an illness it is? Who will be the ones to take on this task? If the patient is "cured", does that mean they can have a gun? Quite the undertaking, no?


We have to begin somewhere. If we second guess at every turn then we have nothing.....like now. Your questions are worthy of consideration. So when do we begin the difficult task?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Who is he? He looks familiar, but cannot place a name with the face.


He is Gerard Butler, peace


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You don't think supplying known terrorist groups with weapons is wrong? Supplying terrorists with weapons IS the threat to the US, not Syria's civil war. Maybe we should demand they sign a waiver stating they will not use these weapons against Americans. Maybe do a background check on them and have a waiting period before providing the weapons. After all, Alcameron says we have to start somewhere and why not with background checks for terrorists?


Are you lost, solowey?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual your comprehension is non existent. I merely asked the question that if the mental illness is "cured" (note the quotes), would the person be able to get a gun.
> 
> Naturally in your haste to criticize me you got it all wrong again. Why am I not surprised?


Do you ever have words of your own? Is Comprehension the new rightwing word of the month? KPG says it in every post which brings me to the conclusion that she is so crazy nobody can understand her.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He is Gerard Butler, peace


Gerard Butler. I would.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Gerard Butler. I would.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I guess anyone who has the money can buy a gun in VA?


Cheeky Blighter
amazing that the latest mass Murderer had some medical attention for mental problem but no-one thought to follow up on it. How many more of these Murders have to take place before the Gun Nuts return to some sanity? Where is the outcry from the majority, many - incl. myself, Gun owners? Is Greed the only thing that counts any more?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> As usual your comprehension is non existent. I merely asked the question that if the mental illness is "cured" (note the quotes), would the person be able to get a gun.
> 
> Naturally in your haste to criticize me you got it all wrong again. Why am I not surprised?


soloweygirl
are you trying to solve problems in decades to come? We are trying to solve present days problems. Get with it for goodness sakes.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do you ever have words of your own? Is Comprehension the new rightwing word of the month? KPG says it in every post which brings me to the conclusion that she is so crazy nobody can understand her.


Bratty Patty
You see, as time marches on the brain needs more and more exercise and here is how some folks get it: repeat, repeat, repeat after me. In addition, comprehension is an unusually long word for them they have become very proud of.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ain't that the truth?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

He/she can probably borrow the money. No problem. No worries unless you're in the line of fire.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I guess anyone who has the money can buy a gun in VA?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As soon as the NRA is stopped from allowing any discussion.



peacegoddess said:


> We have to begin somewhere. If we second guess at every turn then we have nothing.....like now. Your questions are worthy of consideration. So when do we begin the difficult task?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If only we didn't have to hear her.



BrattyPatty said:


> Do you ever have words of your own? Is Comprehension the new rightwing word of the month? KPG says it in every post which brings me to the conclusion that she is so crazy nobody can understand her.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK. I admit it. I live in a cave. Who's Gerald Butler?



BrattyPatty said:


> He is Gerard Butler, peace


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NRA is a GIANT stumbling block.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> amazing that the latest mass Murderer had some medical attention for mental problem but no-one thought to follow up on it. How many more of these Murders have to take place before the Gun Nuts return to some sanity? Where is the outcry from the majority, many - incl. myself, Gun owners? Is Greed the only thing that counts any more?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Dame, Gerard Butler is an actor who will be my escort to the party! I posted his pic a few pages back.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I think he's Scottish. And very very fit.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I saw it and thought he was almost good enough for you. Unfortunately, I thought it was Justin Timberlake with a beard. I never heard of Gerald Butler and I thought I should know something before I meet him.



BrattyPatty said:


> Dame, Gerard Butler is an actor who will be my escort to the party! I posted his pic a few pages back.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm impressed. Beautiful form. Love to see her dance.



aw9358 said:


> May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


Is that who that is? I noticed it yesterday and assumed it was a member of the Royal Ballet. She's beautiful.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm impressed. Beautiful form. Love to see her dance.


Thank you. She's a natural (having done it since she was three), but she's working in a pub part time at the moment. She graduated from dance school in July and still looking for a proper job.

I've just noticed I caught my yarn in the mouse wheel and it's not cooperating. What a barmpot.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you. She's a natural (having done it since she was three), but she's working in a pub part time at the moment. She graduated from dance school in July and still looking for a proper job.
> 
> I've just noticed I caught my yarn in the mouse wheel and it's not cooperating. What a barmpot.


She looks magnificent; I don't doubt a proper job will come along soon. As for you and your mouse, would you like to borrow my cat? She can get yarn out of anything, and put it anywhere.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thank you for the compliment. She was even better than I thought she was in her end of year show. And thank you for the offer of your cat. None of mine are any good, and I'm afraid I had to break the yarn. It was properly stuck round the damn thing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


aw9358
beautiful, very beautiful. Lots to be proud of.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl
I like your Avatar very much. Very unusual and I like unusual.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


So lovely. Perogotive of moms to annoy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm surprised by this. At least vision could be a back-up system if instruments failed.


Let me repeat. Vision is the least reliable tool when flying a plane. Instruments are far better at showing a pilot his position, and providing real information. If the instrumets fail and the pilot has to rely on vision only, he's in big touble. I know it sounds weird, but it's true.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Gerard Butler. I would.


Sorry but I have never heard of him, but I take it he is a film idol. Not many of the current film idols I fancy these days.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Dame, Gerard Butler is an actor who will be my escort to the party! I posted his pic a few pages back.


But who is he in real life? As I said I have never heard of him, I must also be living in a deep, dark cellar.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> May I point out my very first avatar? It's my beautiful daughter. She'd be more than annoyed if she knew I'd used this picture, but I'm so proud of her...


Wow Anne she looks beautiful and what form. Yes, you should be very proud. Not many mothers have a ballerina for a daughter.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Hey, soloweygirl, are you still waiting? I'm baaaack!



soloweygirl said:


> Why don't you prove that this is made up? Why not make a good case for the gun actually doing the killing and not the individual. Make a case for the mental instability not to be the problem. Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim. I'll wait.


I've decided that for lack of anything useful to do at the moment, I will try to respond to your challenges, at least the ones that make sense to me.

To set the record straight, what I called "made up" was an article joeysomma posted saying that Obama was taking some measure that would give arms to terrorists in Syria. I can't actually "prove" that's made up because I have no sources in high places, and she didn't bother to name her sources, but since no reputable news agency made the same claim, I think we can accept it as made up, like the anonymous email describing the nonexistent horrors in Benghazi. What happened in Benghazi was bad enough without the fictitious genital mutilation and rape.

But you want to talk about guns, fine. You appear in your first challenge to be referring to the NRA slogan "Guns don't kill people; people kill people." For some reason, the NRA never asserts the obvious next line: "But a person with a gun can kill a lot more people than if he had no gun." We'll never wipe out lunacy, but why have we made it so easy for lunatics to get hold of guns? And why do you guys stop any attempts to make it harder?

As for mental instability, I'd never say it wasn't *a* problem; it's just not the only problem. Even in the hands of a sane person, a gun can do a lot of damage.

What I can't do is, as you put it, "Make the case for the criminal instead of the victim." Why on earth would you think I could? Do you really believe I would? If so, then I understand why you believe all the nonsense about Obama being a Muslim or not being American-born or about Obamacare bringing about the end of the world, or whatever it is you believe. If you believe anyone who doesn't agree with you is evil and prefers to support criminals rather than victims, they you simply don't have a full deck to play with.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey Purl - I see solowey must not have heard you hollering for her. When you want them around they are no where to be found and then they show up at the most inconvenient times when we are occupied with something else. What is your new avatar? It's very unusual and pretty. It looks very old.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I like your Avatar very much. Very unusual and I like unusual.


Thank you, Huck. It's an heirloom, a crown from Greece in the 3rd or 4th century BCE.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hey Purl - I see solowey must not have heard you hollering for her. When you want them around they are no where to be found and then they show up at the most inconvenient times when we are occupied with something else. What is your new avatar? It's very unusual and pretty. It looks very old.


It's okay that she's not around. She probably won't be able to read my message to the end (I've discovered that they give up when I send them long messages bombarding them with facts and logic).

As for my avatar, it is about 2400 years old, from Greece. I see you've got a Roman one. It suits you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Hey, soloweygirl, are you still waiting? I'm baaaack!
> 
> I've decided that for lack of anything useful to do at the moment, I will try to respond to your challenges, at least the ones that make sense to me.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Let me repeat. Vision is the least reliable tool when flying a plane. Instruments are far better at showing a pilot his position, and providing real information. If the instrumets fail and the pilot has to rely on vision only, he's in big touble. I know it sounds weird, but it's true.


MIB My uncle was a pilot for many years for United Airlines and my cousin, his son, is a pilot for American Airlines and graduated form the U.S. Air Force Academy where he was trained to fly military aircraft. My aunt was also a licensed pilot and they flew their own private plane for many years. You are not correct about good vision not being important for a pilot as it is very important as is maintaining over all good health. You not only have to have excellent vision but excellent reflexes and very quick reaction time. Instruments can only do so much for a pilot. I don't know who has told you these things but they have misinformed you. I have attached a link to the FAA which explains how important good vision is for a pilot. Many situations that come up in flight can only be detected by a pilot visually and then the pilots doing what is necessary to correct the situation may have to be done in a matter of seconds. Hope this explains things for you.

http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Pilot_Vision.pdf - -


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama Waives Ban on Arming Terrorists
> 
> Tuesday, 17 Sep 2013 11:13 AM
> 
> ...


So? I read this twice (the whole article, not just the headline; I'm having an attack of insomnia tonight and was hoping it would put me to sleep) and saw a few implications but nothing substantive. The president did something the law allows him to do, for reasons that some senators (both Dem and Rep) support, and there are speculations about who the Syrian rebels are. Read it carefully yourself, and you'll see there's no substance. The fact that something is possible doesn't mean it will happen.

Considering that it comes from Newsmax, I'm surprised it was so mild.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Again and again, President Obama is selecting what laws, he will enforce or not enforce. What guarantee the Muslim Brotherhood will not be involved, or al-Qaida or Hamas?


 What guarantee that those groups *will* be involved?


> As President he took an oath to defend the Constitution. But then, He thinks he is the supreme ruler not a president bound by laws.


Here we go again: mind-reading and fortune-telling. Btw, all presidents choose which laws they will or will not enforce. You probably don't remember Bush and all his signing statements.


> Who do you think are "reputable news agencies?"


You finally named a few, but they still haven't said what you imply they've said.

And now to bed; thank you for making me so sleepy I'm afraid I won't be able to get up in the morning.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

This guy speculates.

I read some Root's Rants and his speculation is based on one History professor from Columbia University saying he doesn't remember having Obama in a class. One professor out of 90 history professors.

On August 6, 2012, Root speculated that Barack Obama attended Columbia University as a foreign exchange student, citing his "gut instinct" as evidence. Root was specifically referring to the fact that Obama's childhood years spent with his mother in Indonesia. In response to Senator Harry Reid's speculation about Mitt Romney's tax returns, Root offered speculation on Obama's college records.[21]

Wikipedia on Wayne Allen Root.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama: Con Man Or Madman?
> 
> I keep asking: Why Syria? Why now? No war in America history has ever been opposed by 71 percent of the citizens or by 75 percent of the military. Thats how absurd and unnecessary this war is. Then you realize Barack Obama has so many scandals and failures to hide that war is the perfect cover story to mask the most disastrous record in modern Presidential history. Obama is a desperate man. He has to cover up the truth.


Frankly, I agree with you on this one point, Joey. I don't understand why Syria is of such vital significance, and why Obama feels the need to pursue military action when so many Americans are opposed to it. It would be wonderful to believe that we as a nation were so concerned about basic human rights that we'd jump at the chance to intervene when another country violated them in such a blatant manner as Syria--but I doubt that's true. Unfortunately we have a dismal history of looking away when the rest of the world is begging for our help--it's very hard to believe that our national heart has suddenly doubled in size.

But I doubt too that Obama is so vainglorious that he'd start a war just to cover up what you claim are his person scandals (IRS, Benghazi). Why bother? No one but the ultra-rightists are talking about them anymore--the general American public has the attention span of a gnat, and one can always count on some larger-than-life celebrity scandal to divert it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> At their 30 year class reunion, He could not find any students who remembered Obama.


If the GOP leaders believed the birthers' nonsense they would never have let him assume the office of President. Congress is tied up in knots, and even many Republicans point the finger of blame at the obstructionist policies of the GOP Senators and House members. These men have become laughingstocks and certainly put their political careers on the line--why would they make such sacrifices if there was real poof that Obama was not in fact a US citizen?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> At their 30 year class reunion, He could not find any students who remembered Obama.


How many did he ask out of how many were there? Why is this an issue for you when there are other issues we have on the board here?

I am interested in what you think could be worked out about the mentally unstable having access to guns. it is a legitimate question for discussion on all sides with hopefully reasonable ideas for solving a national epidemic of killings in this country. You asked some questions yesterday, and now I wonder if you are willing to discuss the possible answers.

Is it unreasonable for Americans to have a data base check for all gun permits that filters out applicants with a history of mental illness?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Let me repeat. Vision is the least reliable tool when flying a plane. Instruments are far better at showing a pilot his position, and providing real information. If the instrumets fail and the pilot has to rely on vision only, he's in big touble. I know it sounds weird, but it's true.


MaidInBedlam
a Pilot needs to be able to read the instruments.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> If the GOP leaders believed the birthers' nonsense they would never have let him assume the office of President. Congress is tied up in knots, and even many Republicans point the finger of blame at the obstructionist policies of the GOP Senators and House members. These men have become laughingstocks and certainly put their political careers on the line--why would they make such sacrifices if there was real poof that Obama was not in fact a US citizen?


susanmos2000
how many of us remember many from College? Few or none.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Diversion.



joeysomma said:


> Obama Waives Ban on Arming Terrorists
> 
> Tuesday, 17 Sep 2013 11:13 AM
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So? I read this twice (the whole article, not just the headline; I'm having an attack of insomnia tonight and was hoping it would put me to sleep) and saw a few implications but nothing substantive. The president did something the law allows him to do, for reasons that some senators (both Dem and Rep) support, and there are speculations about who the Syrian rebels are. Read it carefully yourself, and you'll see there's no substance. The fact that something is possible doesn't mean it will happen.
> 
> Considering that it comes from Newsmax, I'm surprised it was so mild.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> How many did he ask out of how many were there? Why is this an issue for you when there are other issues we have on the board here?
> 
> I am interested in what you think could be worked out about the mentally unstable having access to guns. it is a legitimate question for discussion on all sides with hopefully reasonable ideas for solving a national epidemic of killings in this country. You asked some questions yesterday, and now I wonder if you are willing to discuss the possible answers.
> 
> Is it unreasonable for Americans to have a data base check for all gun permits that filters out applicants with a history of mental illness?


Actually some forty or so states do make an attempt to keep firearms out of the hands of the mentally ill. Here's an interesting link:

http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/justice/possession-of-a-firearm-by-the-mentally-ill.aspx


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joey, it should be apparent, even to you, that no one here has the slightest interest in what you are trying to cram down our throats. Your persistence is amusing. Like the ant and the rubber tree plant...................

You've got high hopes. You've got high hopes. You've got high, apple pie in the sky hopes. So any time you're feeling blue, all you have to do is just remember that ant. (I stop here, in your case.)

All together. Cheeky dance is also appropriate.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One can only hope this is a professor who foists his teaching off on Grad Students.



peacegoddess said:


> This guy speculates.
> 
> I read some Root's Rants and his speculation is based on one History professor from Columbia University saying he doesn't remember having Obama in a class. One professor out of 90 history professors.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I personally believe that there are many facts that are not divulged to the general public. I also know we have an intelligent President who cares about the legacy he leaves behind. I don't trust everything, but I do trust this President.



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, I agree with you on this one point, Joey. I don't understand why Syria is of such vital significance, and why Obama feels the need to pursue military action when so many Americans are opposed to it. It would be wonderful to believe that we as a nation were so concerned about basic human rights that we'd jump at the chance to intervene when another country violated them in such a blatant manner as Syria--but I doubt that's true. Unfortunately we have a dismal history of looking away when the rest of the world is begging for our help--it's very hard to believe that our national heart has suddenly doubled in size.
> 
> But I doubt too that Obama is so vainglorious that he'd start a war just to cover up what you claim are his person scandals (IRS, Benghazi). Why bother? No one but the ultra-rightists are talking about them anymore--the general American public has the attention span of a gnat, and one can always count on some larger-than-life celebrity scandal to divert it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now there's his (and her) proof. Not.



joeysomma said:


> At their 30 year class reunion, He could not find any students who remembered Obama.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You have to register for guns now, and a 5 day waiting period for hand guns. This is in Wisconsin, what else do you want?,


National and with teeth.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes I would remember, but again I ask how many were at the reunionand how many at that reunion did Root actually speak with? He does not state those numbers. So as in his own words, he is speculating. 

I actually do not care where President Obama went to college, but I think it interesting that you and others want to spend time on a non issue, rather than dealing with solving today's problems.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What news agencies do you want???????


The ones you had were fine. Let me repeat myself: *They did not say what you think they said.*

And now, allow me to bid you adieu. I'm getting tired of reading your screed closely when you yourself haven't.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> joey, it should be apparent, even to you, that no one here has the slightest interest in what you are trying to cram down our throats. Your persistence is amusing. Like the ant and the rubber tree plant...................
> 
> You've got high hopes. You've got high hopes. You've got high, apple pie in the sky hopes. So any time you're feeling blue, all you have to do is just remember that ant. (I stop here, in your case.)
> 
> All together. Cheeky dance is also appropriate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> National and with teeth.


And with no exceptions, as for gun shows.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have never been to a gun show, but at the auctions where guns are sold, the guns are registered and there is a 5 day wait for handguns.


Background checks are not required for purchases at gun shows. See http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html



> FYI: I have not purchased a gun but have been thinking about doing so.


Thanks for the warning.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have never been to a gun show, but at the auctions where guns are sold, the guns are registered and there is a 5 day wait for handguns.
> 
> Rifles and shot guns can be taken after the registration, Black powder guns, BB, and pellet guns are exempt.
> 
> FYI: I have not purchased a gun but have been thinking about doing so.


I have owned a shotgun. I was once a rather good pheasant hunter. My progressive self channeling an alternate Sarah Palin.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for the warning.


ANY sale of a gun should be subject to background check.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

While I wait for the blind pilot I know best, having gone to junior and senior high school with him, and been friends with ever since, to explain how he flies his small airplane, perhaps you could explain why pages 80-83 are filled with a running argument with joeysomma. I thought we were all going to rise above that sort of thing. It seems I was misinformed about how liberal participants in this topic intended to conduct themselves.

To whatever extent I find I am misinformed about blind pilots of personal aircraft, I will admit it, of course. 


Cheeky Blighter said:


> MIB My uncle was a pilot for many years for United Airlines and my cousin, his son, is a pilot for American Airlines and graduated form the U.S. Air Force Academy where he was trained to fly military aircraft. My aunt was also a licensed pilot and they flew their own private plane for many years. You are not correct about good vision not being important for a pilot as it is very important as is maintaining over all good health. You not only have to have excellent vision but excellent reflexes and very quick reaction time. Instruments can only do so much for a pilot. I don't know who has told you these things but they have misinformed you. I have attached a link to the FAA which explains how important good vision is for a pilot. Many situations that come up in flight can only be detected by a pilot visually and then the pilots doing what is necessary to correct the situation may have to be done in a matter of seconds. Hope this explains things for you.
> 
> http://www.faa.gov/pilots/safety/pilotsafetybrochures/media/Pilot_Vision.pdf - -


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

So, back to background checks. Should be required of all gun sales in all states.

Maybe even a 'booster" background check after a period of 5 or 6 years. Would assist with stolen, but unrepoted, gun losses in a household, at first check undiagnosed or reported mental illness, criminal convictions such as , but not necessarily limited to, domestic violence convictions etc.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Someone on here wanted a national data base. Since there is a registration for the sale of all guns, and there is a waiting period for hand guns; there is a data base.
> 
> As far as background checks, they can be a joke. There was a retired member of the military (20+ years of decorated service). That was denied because of a small problem he had in high school. He had been cleared of all charges in high school.


Then these types of issues get worked out. If someone's record is legitimately expunged then it should not show up on a background check. Also, having "decorated service" does not immediately equal an outstanding person. My father had 20 plus years of decorated service in the Air Force and he was a wife abuser.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> SOSO solo


WOW, another "intelligent" response from you. How much did you pay for it? Do you get them from a gumball machine? The responses certainly go downhill whenever you get online.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So a background check would find all wife abusers??


Not unless there was a registered report and in more and more instances spouses are reporting abuse.

I am not saying any system will be perfect, but we must begin someplace and what is in place now is not working. What do you propose?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> WOW, another "intelligent" response from you. How much did you pay for it? Do you get them from a gumball machine? The responses certainly go downhill whenever you get online.


solowe, if not for nitpicking, why are you in this thread? Your put downs get very old as does the repetition of other poster's words. Have you changed your views to liberal?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> We have to begin somewhere. If we second guess at every turn then we have nothing.....like now. Your questions are worthy of consideration. So when do we begin the difficult task?


I have started by informing my representatives of my ideas on this subject. Mental illness is not the only problem. Violence is a major factor. Not all that inflict harm on others, directly or indirectly, are mentally ill. This is a much larger problem than just the gun alone.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are you lost, solowey?


Not at all. This is what our President is planning on doing. His administration has "vetted" which terrorists will receive the weapons, thus clearing the way to arm the rebel terrorists. Particularly Al Qaeda. Obama has once again circumvented Congress and waived the law that prohibits the US from providing "aid and comfort" to the enemy.

We can only hope the terrorists will not turn around and use those weapons on other Americans. But, Obama and his people have assured us that this will not happen. If only we could believe him.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do you ever have words of your own? Is Comprehension the new rightwing word of the month? KPG says it in every post which brings me to the conclusion that she is so crazy nobody can understand her.


Actually, I was the one that constantly used comprehension when referring to Huckleberry's lack of said ability. Yes, this is MY word. And KPG's use of it means that others have noticed this absence as well.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not at all. This is what our President is planning on doing. His administration has "vetted" which terrorists will receive the weapons, thus clearing the way to arm the rebel terrorists. Particularly Al Qaeda. Obama has once again circumvented Congress and waived the law that prohibits the US from providing "aid and comfort" to the enemy.
> 
> We can only hope the terrorists will not turn around and use those weapons on other Americans. But, Obama and his people have assured us that this will not happen. If only we could believe him.


Yeah, Yeah, yeah..............


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> are you trying to solve problems in decades to come? We are trying to solve present days problems. Get with it for goodness sakes.


Since you still don't know what Peacegoddess and I were discussing ,I will enlighten you. We were discussing background checks for guns and mental illness. During our discussion I brought up this idea as a possible problem.

Why not be truthful and admit you had no idea of what we were discussing and merely replied to get another "put down' under your belt.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Dame, Gerard Butler is an actor who will be my escort to the party! I posted his pic a few pages back.


He has much better taste in women than to choose you. I suppose everyone is entitled to a fantasy or two.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> He has much better taste in women than to choose you. I suppose everyone is entitled to a fantasy or two.


Jealousy gets you nowhere. Just makes you ugly and bitter as usual. :mrgreen:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I have started by informing my representatives of my ideas on this subject. Mental illness is not the only problem. Violence is a major factor. Not all that inflict harm on others, directly or indirectly, are mentally ill. This is a much larger problem than just the gun alone.


I agree. I too let legislators know my opinion on this (and other) issue.

We do need to begin somewhere and mental illness seems to be a reoccuring factor in the past many mass shootings. I am not talking you or me seeing a shrink to resolve anxiety issues, but longterm documented mental instability where violence has been an issue.

I understand there may be concerns for privacy, but in light of what we know about presumption of privacy ( I no longer believe I can trust anypalce including my own home iclassifies as a pesumption of privacy)these days it is not one of my biggest concerns about whether a violent mental patient of former patient's name appears on a background check for a gun.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Hey, soloweygirl, are you still waiting? I'm baaaack!
> 
> I've decided that for lack of anything useful to do at the moment, I will try to respond to your challenges, at least the ones that make sense to me.
> 
> ...


Just for your records, I have never said Obama is a Muslim, or that he was not a US citizen. Nor have I said anyone that doesn't agree with me is evil, or that you support criminals over victims, that is all yours. It sounds more like liberal talking points than anything else, so let's not go there.

Obama has cleared the way to arm the Syrian rebels with weapons, ammo, anti-tank weapons, advanced communications equipment, medical kits and MRE's and I'm sure other items. He has waived the law that prohibits the US from providing "aid and comfort" to the enemy, circumventing Congress once again. We will only be supplying "vetted" terrorists. Whoever they are other than enemies of the US, i.e. Al Qaeda.

I'm glad they will be vetted. This way we can be assured they will not turn those very same weapons on Americans living and working in the area. The administration has said so, so it must be true. What a relief.

The gun all by itself does not kill. It's the person behind the gun that does, of course. Besides mental illness, plain ordinary violence is another factor in the gun "killing" someone. There is definitely a breakdown within our society that has allowed violence to become so prominent. The breakdown of the family structure is a major reason. Gangs as the substitution for the family is another reason. No discipline, lack of morals, lack of education, no restrictions on children, expecting others to take care of one's child or just giving up are also problems. Further restrictions is only a bandaid approach. These other problems go to the core of the violence. The violence is escalating. The violence has to be dealt with first ,IMO, otherwise the population will have no other choice than to be armed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Yes I would remember, but again I ask how many were at the reunionand how many at that reunion did Root actually speak with? He does not state those numbers. So as in his own words, he is speculating.
> 
> I actually do not care where President Obama went to college, but I think it interesting that you and others want to spend time on a non issue, rather than dealing with solving today's problems.


 :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :!:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And a true national database instead of a piecemeal attempt.



Poor Purl said:


> And with no exceptions, as for gun shows.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Adieu.



joeysomma said:


> I still would like to know what news agencies you think are reliable. Then, what did the articles say, and what do you think I wanted them to say?
> 
> I'm confused. I can't read your mind but you think you can read mine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And there is still the issue of mental illnesses to address. We don't want to discourage people from seeking help, but we don't want to overlook dangers.



peacegoddess said:


> So, back to background checks. Should be required of all gun sales in all states.
> 
> Maybe even a 'booster" background check after a period of 5 or 6 years. Would assist with stolen, but unrepoted, gun losses in a household, at first check undiagnosed or reported mental illness, criminal convictions such as , but not necessarily limited to, domestic violence convictions etc.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Looking for friends in all the wrong places?



BrattyPatty said:


> solowe, if not for nitpicking, why are you in this thread? Your put downs get very old as does the repetition of other poster's words. Have you changed your views to liberal?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Again and again, President Obama is selecting what laws, he will enforce or not enforce. What guarantee the Muslim Brotherhood will not be involved, or al-Qaida or Hamas?
> As President he took an oath to defend the Constitution. But then, He thinks he is the supreme ruler not a president bound by laws.
> 
> Who do you think are "reputable news agencies?"


Joey, it is apparent that Obama can do no wrong in their eyes. Supplying arms to our enemies ( these are groups that have declared themselves to be America's enemies ) is no big deal. There is absolutely no way Obama can assure the American people that these "vetted" terrorists will not use the weapons against us. Since he cannot do that, he is breaking his oath (taken twice) to protect the American people. I am surprised they do not think this is so wrong.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You were nitpicking.



soloweygirl said:


> Since you still don't know what Peacegoddess and I were discussing ,I will enlighten you. We were discussing background checks for guns and mental illness. During our discussion I brought up this idea as a possible problem.
> 
> Why not be truthful and admit you had no idea of what we were discussing and merely replied to get another "put down' under your belt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your lies and exaggerations fool no one. Adieu.



soloweygirl said:


> Joey, it is apparent that Obama can do no wrong in their eyes. Supplying arms to our enemies ( these are groups that have declared themselves to be America's enemies ) is no big deal. There is absolutely no way Obama can assure the American people that these "vetted" terrorists will not use the weapons against us. Since he cannot do that, he is breaking his oath (taken twice) to protect the American people. I am surprised they do not think this is so wrong.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I personally believe that there are many facts that are not divulged to the general public. I also know we have an intelligent President who cares about the legacy he leaves behind. I don't trust everything, but I do trust this President.


Doesn't that just say it all. We can all breathe a lot easier now and have a fitful sleep. Damemary trusts this President.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please review the title of the thread you are on. It's called

P.O.V. Liberal

I am a Liberal, so I am in the right place. That is my Point of View, so it is in the right place.

I hope you're lost. Otherwise you're just attempting to stir things up. I guess there is an answer there.



soloweygirl said:


> Doesn't that just say it all. We can all breathe a lot easier now and have a fitful sleep. Damemary trusts this President.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


damemary
Hello damemary, I am glad you read some of the postings since I don't.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Please review the title of the thread you are on. It's called
> 
> P.O.V. Liberal
> 
> ...


damemary
it is comforting to know that we can trust this President isn't it!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Since you still don't know what Peacegoddess and I were discussing ,I will enlighten you. We were discussing background checks for guns and mental illness. During our discussion I brought up this idea as a possible problem.
> 
> Why not be truthful and admit you had no idea of what we were discussing and merely replied to get another "put down' under your belt.


soloweygirl
I referred to your "cured" of mental illness. Tough when you do not even understand your own writing. I am not for put downs, but for pulling ups. Always trying to clarify things for you. Your writings get very murky.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I still would like to know what news agencies you think are reliable. Then, what did the articles say, and what do you think I wanted them to say?
> 
> I'm confused. I can't read your mind but you think you can read mine.


joeysomma
talking to yourself in circles again? Sit down, you are getting very dizzy.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> One can only hope this is a professor who foists his teaching off on Grad Students.


damemary
let us not forget that some among us have gone to little one-room country schools with all cousins as classmates. How could they ever forget them? The rest of us flew the coop and ventured into a World of higher learning sitting in Auditoriums with often hundreds of Students from all over the World. Few Professors remember many of those they taught. They focused on teaching us and remember pretty much only those whose Parents made large contributions to the Institution. Money developes a photographic mind. Know what I mean!


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

There is no "winning" or right side in Syria, in my opinion. They all hate the USA and Israel. Period. Whatever weapons are around, will be used somewhere, sometime. If at us, all the more happy it will make the radical Muslims. The thing that makes me more upset is the fact that we jumped in over there at all (thank you President Bush), stirred up the pot, set this stuff in motion, and had no solutions. Now, it's just a mess altogether. I wonder why we as a country, were never alerted how many Muslims had been radicalized since the 1980's and that they were going to be a big problem. A good educational push would have been money well spent.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> There is no "winning" or right side in Syria, in my opinion. They all hate the USA and Israel. Period. Whatever weapons are around, will be used somewhere, sometime. If at us, all the more happy it will make the radical Muslims. The thing that makes me more upset is the fact that we jumped in over there at all (thank you President Bush), stirred up the pot, set this stuff in motion, and had no solutions. Now, it's just a mess altogether. I wonder why we as a country, were never alerted how many Muslims had been radicalized since the 1980's and that they were going to be a big problem. A good educational push would have been money well spent.


Well, I diasapprove of what the Israeli government ( and our supporting their military with money and arms)is doing in Palestine does that make me a radical Muslim?


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well, I diasapprove of what the Israeli government ( and our supporting their military with money and arms)is doing in Palestine does that make me a radical Muslim?


No it makes you whatever you believe you are. Do some research, and it will be clear to you what the radical Muslims are. It's not for me to limit your education with further elucidation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Under construction. :lol:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> No it makes you whatever you believe you are. Do some research, and it will be clear to you what the radical Muslims are. It's not for me to limit your education with further elucidation.


I was being facetious about being a radical Muslim, but I am serious about my dislike of the Israeli government's policy and actions on Palestine.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I was being facetious about being a radical Muslim, but I am serious about my dislike of the Israeli government's policy and actions on Palestine.


Missed the sense of humor. Sorry. My point was they hate the USA and Israel. I wasn't commenting on Israel per se one way or the other. That is a can of worms as well. No winning that one for sure.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Missed the sense of humor. Sorry. My point was they hate the USA and Israel. I wasn't commenting on Israel per se one way or the other. That is a can of worms as well. No winning that one for sure.


It is difficult to "hear" tone online. I try to not take offense and give another opportunity whenever possible.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> First, there are no Palestinians. They are Arabs. The area in the Middle East was given the name, Palestine, by the Romans. They were not called Palestinians until Arafat became their leader. The land, Israel, belongs to the Jews, the descendants of Jacob. It was given to them by God when Moses led the people to the Jordan River after being held captive in Egypt. Joshua and Caleb led them into the land of Canaan, their promised land.
> 
> Many times they have been conquered and scattered. But the land is still theirs and will always be theirs. Our Country will be blessed as long as we support Israel. If the Country changes and supports the Muslims, we will go down in defeat. It will be from the inside and not an external defeat.
> 
> ...


Joeysomma

Respectfully, we may never agree on this as I do not agree on your most basic premise of there not being a Palestinian people. Whether they were called Palestinians during Roman times or just until the middle to late 20th centuray does not discount the fact that people, families, were and continue to be displaced from their homes because of a decision made after WWI to divide up a land mass and then continue to broker (upto and after WWII) who is going to be recognized as the rightful people to live there.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Joeysomma
> 
> Respectfully, we may never agree on this as I do not agree on your most basic premise of there not being a Palestinian people. Whether they were called Palestinians during Roman times or just until the middle to late 20th centuray does not discount the fact that people, families, were and continue to be displaced from their homes because of a decision made after WWI to divide up a land mass and then continue to broker (upto and after WWII) who is going to be recognized as the rightful people to live there.


I have very mixed feelings about Israel. I disapprove heartily of the way they treat the Palestinians, and I abhor the fact that the country is dominated by orthodox rabbis--living in a religious theocracy is definitely not for me.
Having said that though, I do feel that the Jewish people need a country of their own (or at least a country in which they're the majority). During the Holocaust the European Jews were at the complete mercy of their respective countries' governments--if the government took a stand against anti-Semitism (as in Denmark) they were likely to survive, but in places like Poland--well, we know what happened there.
What a horrible horrible thing to have, as a Jewish person, nowhere to go and no possibility of defending oneself. It's almost inconceivable that the Holocaust could happen again, but if it did--well, at least the Jewish people now have a guaranteed sanctuary. They were persecuted and murdered by the millions in Europe, and we Americans were guilty too for refusing to let them emigrate, and for not making destruction of the concentration camps and the train tracks leading to them the military's #1 priority.
In short I believe the Western world owes them something, and before anyone asks--yes, I would have been in favor of giving them 8,000 square miles of American land if they had been willing to accept.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> First, there are no Palestinians. They are Arabs. The area in the Middle East was given the name, Palestine, by the Romans. They were not called Palestinians until Arafat became their leader. The land, Israel, belongs to the Jews, the descendants of Jacob. It was given to them by God when Moses led the people to the Jordan River after being held captive in Egypt. Joshua and Caleb led them into the land of Canaan, their promised land.
> 
> Many times they have been conquered and scattered. But the land is still theirs and will always be theirs. Our Country will be blessed as long as we support Israel. If the Country changes and supports the Muslims, we will go down in defeat. It will be from the inside and not an external defeat.
> 
> ...


Promised by God? Which God? That doesn't work in this world. It's very late here and I'm tired, but I wanted to show this before the discussion moves on. They are not "so-called" Palestinians. They had a homeland for a long time before it was stolen from them and they became foreigners in their own land. I hope I will be able to return to this when the brain is more functional.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The land belonged to Israel long before 1946. They were allowed to return after WWII.


Then I give up. Cannot argue with anyone who has any god on their side.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Well, I diasapprove of what the Israeli government ( and our supporting their military with money and arms)is doing in Palestine does that make me a radical Muslim?


peacegoddess
I wish the People of Palestine and Israel had true choices then their problems would be solved. Their Governments, particularly Netanyahu like conflicts, it is steady income particularly for Israel.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wonder how the World views us finding out how many impoverished People we really have and that the Republicans are cutting food stamps for the most vulnerable among us, Children, Seniors and jobless while dishing out money left and right to Corporations as Subsidies. Corporations who rake in Millions and frequently Billions in Profits every year. Have Republicans no shame at all?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga. Good thoughts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night. Bazinga!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good night ladies! BAZINGA!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder how the World views us finding out how many impoverished People we really have and that the Republicans are cutting food stamps for the most vulnerable among us, Children, Seniors and jobless while dishing out money left and right to Corporations as Subsidies. Corporations who rake in Millions and frequently Billions in Profits every year. Have Republicans no shame at all?


I think they give us a very low rating, Huck,


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

OK, I made a harsh reply to Poor Purl. I apologize.

What I'd love to know is why are soloweygirl and joeysomma posting all over pages 81-86 and no none is ignoring them, but indulging them instead? What happened to starving the buggers out? Seems like I'm not the only imperfect perom around here.

I'm looking forward to reading how those of you who kept the ball in the air with those two interlopers come up with a positive reason for getting in to it with those two.


----------



## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Good thoughts re Republicans. No. They have no shame and a minority of Tea Partiers has cowed them all now. What an embarrassment. Well, their God (speaking of Gods) Reagan started all of it in California by having the mental institutions closed and putting the people out on the street. Hence, 30 years work slashing social prograams, we have the homeless and hungry mess now in every state. Shamefull in a country that can squander 11 years, how many dead, and how many $$'s, continue doing it and still not feed and clothe our own people. And please remember, when The Shrub took over after President Clinton, this country had it's first surplus in decades of Republican rule. Makes my head hurt.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Good thoughts re Republicans. No. They have no shame and a minority of Tea Partiers has cowed them all now. What an embarrassment. Well, their God (speaking of Gods) Reagan started all of it in California by having the mental institutions closed and putting the people out on the street. Hence, 30 years work slashing social prograams, we have the homeless and hungry mess now in every state. Shamefull in a country that can squander 11 years, how many dead, and how many $$'s, continue doing it and still not feed and clothe our own people. And please remember, when The Shrub took over after President Clinton, this country had it's first surplus in decades of Republican rule. Makes my head hurt.


Ronald Reagan the "gift" that keeps on giving us poverty.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Promised by God? Which God? That doesn't work in this world. It's very late here and I'm tired, but I wanted to show this before the discussion moves on. They are not "so-called" Palestinians. They had a homeland for a long time before it was stolen from them and they became foreigners in their own land. I hope I will be able to return to this when the brain is more functional.


Thank you!


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## shayfaye (May 6, 2011)

Oh, I love the way you two think!!! I told my Boss that 666 was Ronald Wilson Reagan and she just looked at me. She is a Repub but I love her anyway. She has been good to me as I have to her. We just agree to disagree on politics. When I hear people talk about how great Reagan was, I just turn away.


peacegoddess said:


> Ronald Reagan the "gift" that keeps on giving us poverty.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Love that...the gift that keeps on giving. Perfect.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> I referred to your "cured" of mental illness. Tough when you do not even understand your own writing. I am not for put downs, but for pulling ups. Always trying to clarify things for you. Your writings get very murky.


You cannot clarify something of which you do not understand. It only makes you look the fool you are.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Wonder how the World views us finding out how many impoverished People we really have and that the Republicans are cutting food stamps for the most vulnerable among us, Children, Seniors and jobless while dishing out money left and right to Corporations as Subsidies. Corporations who rake in Millions and frequently Billions in Profits every year. Have Republicans no shame at all?


Enough with your over dramatic talking points. The House has voted to cut 40B from the food stamp program. This will tighten eligibility requirements, which were relaxed under the stimulus package in 2009. It will require able bodied adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS to be limited to the amount of time they are enrolled in the food stamp program. Families WITH children are not affected by this bill.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Enough with your over dramatic talking points. The House has voted to cut 40B from the food stamp program. This will tighten eligibility requirements, which were relaxed under the stimulus package in 2009. It will require able bodied adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS to be limited to the amount of time they are enrolled in the food stamp program. Families WITH children are not affected by this bill.


It will also give the states more responsibility for oversight. Think Surfer Dude.........

I was waiting for the wearing of the ash cloths, gnashing of the teeth, clawing at their breasts and wailing at the sky when this came out.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, I made a harsh reply to Poor Purl. I apologize.
> 
> What I'd love to know is why are soloweygirl and joeysomma posting all over pages 81-86 and no none is ignoring them, but indulging them instead? What happened to starving the buggers out? Seems like I'm not the only imperfect perom around here.
> 
> I'm looking forward to reading how those of you who kept the ball in the air with those two interlopers come up with a positive reason for getting in to it with those two.


Seattle I am sure your little grey cells can come up with the answer. Knowing your friends as you do, it really shouldn't take much time.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Enough with your over dramatic talking points. The House has voted to cut 40B from the food stamp program. This will tighten eligibility requirements, which were relaxed under the stimulus package in 2009. It will require able bodied adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS to be limited to the amount of time they are enrolled in the food stamp program. Families WITH children are not affected by this bill.


soloweygirl
our inhumanity has no limits, typical Chinos.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Enough with your over dramatic talking points. The House has voted to cut 40B from the food stamp program. This will tighten eligibility requirements, which were relaxed under the stimulus package in 2009. It will require able bodied adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS to be limited to the amount of time they are enrolled in the food stamp program. Families WITH children are not affected by this bill.


Solowey, nobody is twisting your arm to stay here. What's wrong with your own backyard? Too full of doo?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Solowey, nobody is twisting your arm to stay here. What's wrong with your own backyard? We don't care much for you here.


While no one is twisting her arm, lots of people here are giving her the attention she craves, and came here in the hope of getting. We've got "Smoking and Obamacare" and FF Wearihg Denim and Pearls" and who knows how many other topics that I think of as the TRIPE PAGES. Looks like this topic is turning out to be the same as the rest of 'em. Are we having fun yey?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You cannot clarify something of which you do not understand. It only makes you look the fool you are.


soloweygirl
bless you dear.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Enough with your over dramatic talking points. The House has voted to cut 40B from the food stamp program. This will tighten eligibility requirements, which were relaxed under the stimulus package in 2009. It will require able bodied adults WITHOUT CHILDREN OR DEPENDENTS to be limited to the amount of time they are enrolled in the food stamp program. Families WITH children are not affected by this bill.


soloweygirl
a little tuck on your Heart strings? Sure hope so.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not a bit of shame....but lots of bluster. I'm changing my POV from how nasty the macademias are to how anyone with a brain in their head can vote GOP.



Huckleberry said:


> Wonder how the World views us finding out how many impoverished People we really have and that the Republicans are cutting food stamps for the most vulnerable among us, Children, Seniors and jobless while dishing out money left and right to Corporations as Subsidies. Corporations who rake in Millions and frequently Billions in Profits every year. Have Republicans no shame at all?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> It will also give the states more responsibility for oversight. Think Surfer Dude.........
> 
> I was waiting for the wearing of the ash cloths, gnashing of the teeth, clawing at their breasts and wailing at the sky when this came out.


Really? You Chinos are a very strange cult. Hold your breath while you wait.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Ronald Reagan the "gift" that keeps on giving us poverty.


peacegoddess
poverty and racism all on the upswing since Reagan. What a Prince.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Solowey, nobody is twisting your arm to stay here. What's wrong with your own backyard? Too full of doo?


Bratty Patty
too much dirt in front of her door to get out and smell the neighbor's roses.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> our inhumanity has no limits, typical Chinos.


Correction:

Your inhumanity................................


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really? You Chinos are a very strange cult. Hold your breath while you wait.


Bratty Patty
Cult, you got that right. They had to leave the true Christian Church because they were the Devils trying to destroy it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Solowey, nobody is twisting your arm to stay here. What's wrong with your own backyard? Too full of doo?


You showed up.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> While no one is twisting her arm, lots of people here are giving her the attention she craves, and came here in the hope of getting. We've got "Smoking and Obamacare" and FF Wearihg Denim and Pearls" and who knows how many other topics that I think of as the TRIPE PAGES. Looks like this topic is turning out to be the same as the rest of 'em. Are we having fun yey?


Seattle, you are the one that craves attention. I came to see if this thread would actually have the intelligent discussions that you and your BFF's claim to want. While a discussion can be had with a very few of you, mostly the thread is the same old, same old as the majority of the posters are the same. You (collective) are the reason for the TRIPE PAGES, you never change. One can only conclude you do not want or are not capable of any kind of intelligent discussion.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Correction:
> 
> Your inhumanity................................


It was correct before your edit.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Seattle, you are the one that craves attention. I came to see if this thread would actually have the intelligent discussions that you and your BFF's claim to want. While a discussion can be had with a very few of you, mostly the thread is the same old, same old as the majority of the posters are the same. You (collective) are the reason for the TRIPE PAGES, you never change. One can only conclude you do not want or are not capable of any kind of intelligent discussion.


You came to this page, which used to contain a great deal of well-reasoned discussion conducted by what you call my BFFs. Your agenda is to turn this into another TRIPE PAGE. Looks like you're doing a good job.

This topic changed the tenor of topics dedicated to political discussion. I hope we will return to positive discussion and remember to ignore you and your friends.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You came to this page, which used to contain a great deal of well-reasoned discussion conducted by what you call my BFFs. Your agenda is to turn this into another TRIPE PAGE. Looks like you're doing a good job.
> 
> This topic changed the tenor of topics dedicated to political discussion. I hope we will return to positive discussion and remember to ignore you and your friends.


Wrong, Seattle. I came to this page for discussion only. The only thread I said I would not post on is LOLL and I have kept my word. Too bad you and your FF's do not know how to keep theirs. If attacked I will respond. FYI, if you want positive discussion try having one. Do not put down anyone with a differing opinion than yours or make things up when all else fails. (this post as an example)


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It was correct before your edit.


We have nothing we care to discuss with you or the rest of the CHINOS. How thick is your skull that you can't grasp that? You want to play, go somewhere else. Maybe you have "brain envy", we have them and you and the rest of the CHINOS don't. That must be it. You don't know how to have a discussion you only want to argue and fight. That's what CHINOS do. You only embarrass yourself. You are like a rotten little CHINO rolling around crying "Look at Me!" You are really a pathetic bore go back to D&P or S&O and knock yourself out.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You showed up.


This is POV Liberal dear. Hardly describes you does it? You must have taken a "left" turn by mistaken and gotten yourself lost. Go back to D&P or S&O where you can fight 'till you knock yourself out.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This is POV Liberal dear. Hardly describes you does it? You must have taken a "left" turn by mistaken and gotten yourself lost. Go back to D&P or S&O where you can fight 'till you knock yourself out.


Cheeky dear, if you want to do away with the 1st Amendment, then by all means go through the proper steps and have a go at it. Until then, every thread on a public forum is open to everyone, even those that are not liberals. This sentence should be familiar as the first half was said over and over by you and your BFFs. I was on D&P and to my horror you also showed up after stating that you would not post there again. What is a girl to do? It is so hard to believe anything a so public liar has to say. TTFN


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> We have nothing we care to discuss with you or the rest of the CHINOS. How thick is your skull that you can't grasp that? You want to play, go somewhere else. Maybe you have "brain envy", we have them and you and the rest of the CHINOS don't. That must be it. You don't know how to have a discussion you only want to argue and fight. That's what CHINOS do. You only embarrass yourself. You are like a rotten little CHINO rolling around crying "Look at Me!" You are really a pathetic bore go back to D&P or S&O and knock yourself out.


Brain envy of a bunch of liberal pets ( that's pets like monkeys and rats) that just follow anyone around that says let's do this? What is it you are doing? I'm on "your" thread and all you do is attempt to pick a fight and argue. You wouldn't know an intelligent discussion, let alone a discussion of any kind, if it bit you on your extremely ample ass.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Brain envy of a bunch of liberal pets ( that's pets like monkeys and rats) that just follow anyone around that says let's do this? What is it you are doing? I'm on "your" thread and all you do is attempt to pick a fight and argue. You wouldn't know an intelligent discussion, let alone a discussion of any kind, if it bit you on your extremely ample ass.


Notice how they have to resort to name calling like tweeners in 7th grade?

They make as much sense as Obama when he said that raising the debt ceiling will not increase the debt. Oh that makes sense.....I use my Master Card to pay off my American Express card, then I use my Visa to pay off my Master Card. And then I am only making the minimum payment. If Congress votes for something that costs money it either should have the money or cut something from the budget to pay for it. What a novel idea, to live within their budget like the rest of us have to


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It was correct before your edit.


soloweygirl
I am the Author so I decide what is correct. Your non-caring ways towards the Needy are obvious. Inhumanity as I see it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Notice how they have to resort to name calling like tweeners in 7th grade?
> 
> They make as much sense as Obama when he said that raising the debt ceiling will not increase the debt. Oh that makes sense.....I use my Master Card to pay off my American Express card, then I use my Visa to pay off my Master Card. And then I am only making the minimum payment. If Congress votes for something that costs money it either should have the money or cut something from the budget to pay for it. What a novel idea, to live within their budget like the rest of us have to


lovethelak
I wish to inform you that the World Economy depends on Credit and lots of it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This is POV Liberal dear. Hardly describes you does it? You must have taken a "left" turn by mistaken and gotten yourself lost. Go back to D&P or S&O where you can fight 'till you knock yourself out.


Cheeky Blighter
it is much more interesting in our threads than theirs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> it is much more interesting in our threads than theirs.


They don't even know what "interesting" is Huck. They do not have the mental capacity to think let alone be interesting. They bore me. They must have all been "home schooled" and it sure shows.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> CHINO: from the Urban Dictionary
> 
> In Peru: man of asian origins. Can be used as a gentle insult or a tease (between friends and relatives for example). General way of describing a Peruvian with asian traits.
> 
> ...


She means: Christians in name only, cruel name to call you don't you think?


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

So let's get back to discussions as we started. First, read Paul Krugman's column in Friday's N Y Times re the gang of 30 holding a entire country hostage. The most interesting thing is the figure of the votes in the off election cycle: they did NOT win the popular vote but actually lost by over a million and a half votes. Jerrymandering won. So they are really hijacking the entire system with their extremist views and insanity of shutting down the government and literally illegitimate by popular vote. Will no republicans step up and vote out the extremists who will be coming up for a vote in the next cycle? Boy, what a time in which we find ourselves. Then, secondly, take a read at the new book, "Who Really Killed Kennedy". See where our country was headed then and what we actually have become in these 50 years since.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's the truth. And the smell is much better too.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> it is much more interesting in our threads than theirs.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Racist taunt.



joeysomma said:


> CHINO: from the Urban Dictionary
> 
> In Peru: man of asian origins. Can be used as a gentle insult or a tease (between friends and relatives for example). General way of describing a Peruvian with asian traits.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope. It's TRUE and points out the hypocrisy. UGGG!



lovethelake said:


> She means: Christians in name only, cruel name to call you don't you think?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds interesting. So much reading. So little time. Thanks for the tips.



MindyT said:


> So let's get back to discussions as we started. First, read Paul Krugman's column in Friday's N Y Times re the gang of 30 holding a entire country hostage. The most interesting thing is the figure of the votes in the off election cycle: they did NOT win the popular vote but actually lost by over a million and a half votes. Jerrymandering won. So they are really hijacking the entire system with their extremist views and insanity of shutting down the government and literally illegitimate by popular vote. Will no republicans step up and vote out the extremists who will be coming up for a vote in the next cycle? Boy, what a time in which we find ourselves. Then, secondly, take a read at the new book, "Who Really Killed Kennedy". See where our country was headed then and what we actually have become in these 50 years since.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MindyT said:


> So let's get back to discussions as we started. First, read Paul Krugman's column in Friday's N Y Times re the gang of 30 holding a entire country hostage. The most interesting thing is the figure of the votes in the off election cycle: they did NOT win the popular vote but actually lost by over a million and a half votes. Jerrymandering won. So they are really hijacking the entire system with their extremist views and insanity of shutting down the government and literally illegitimate by popular vote. Will no republicans step up and vote out the extremists who will be coming up for a vote in the next cycle? Boy, what a time in which we find ourselves. Then, secondly, take a read at the new book, "Who Really Killed Kennedy". See where our country was headed then and what we actually have become in these 50 years since.


MindyT
It is extremely sad to see that the decent Republicans have been hijacked by a handful of dreadful Monsters who are terrorizing the decent ones with the help of the Koch Brothers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> CHINO: from the Urban Dictionary
> 
> In Peru: man of asian origins. Can be used as a gentle insult or a tease (between friends and relatives for example). General way of describing a Peruvian with asian traits.
> 
> ...


joeysomma
you must belong to one of the Churches which openly is preaching Racism. You sure sound like it. What a wonderful specimen of a Devil you are.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Wrong, Seattle. I came to this page for discussion only. The only thread I said I would not post on is LOLL and I have kept my word. Too bad you and your FF's do not know how to keep theirs. If attacked I will respond. FYI, if you want positive discussion try having one. Do not put down anyone with a differing opinion than yours or make things up when all else fails. (this post as an example)


Good one, soloweygirl. I like a good laugh as much as anyone. If you feel attacked, please feel free to respond in kind.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I see we've decided to go the way of all the other politial threads and give certain people all the attention they crave.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I am in tears this morning. The past 2 weeks I have been caring for 8 cats one which is very old (16) and is quite feeble and needs medication. She is so sweet, but is slowly wasting away to nothing. If she were mine i would euthanize her as she cries off and on day and night. Last night was particularlly difficult for her. we were up to gether and I spent a long time just petting her head. It hurts her to be touched anywhere else. I realize my emotionsal state is from lack of sleep, but i am so sad for her.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> They don't even know what "interesting" is Huck. They do not have the mental capacity to think let alone be interesting. They bore me. They must have all been "home schooled" and it sure shows.


Cheeky Blighter
would like to meet their Teacher.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Having glorious weather today. Would love to share it with the flood victims in Colorado. They certainly need a Climate change.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Racist taunt.


I guess some don't realize that there can be multiple definitions and meanings for words and our use of the word had nothing to do with our Hispanic sisters and brothers. We would never insult them. Some are only able to see things in a very negative way and this is just another example of how the right wing looks at the world from their very narrow view of it. She was being racist as you pointed out damemary not us.
Your new avatar is lovely.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I guess some don't realize that there can be multiple definitions and meanings for words and our use of the word had nothing to do with our Hispanic sisters and brothers. We would never insult them. Some are only able to see things in a very negative way and this is just another example of how the right wing looks at the world from their very narrow view of it. She was being racist as you pointed out damemary not us.
> Your new avatar is lovely.


And I know that you need to use double meanings because you think it is clever. Pretty pathetic that you do not have the courage to state your opinion without using the Urban Dictionary


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am in tears this morning. The past 2 weeks I have been caring for 8 cats one which is very old (16) and is quite feeble and needs medication. She is so sweet, but is slowly wasting away to nothing. If she were mine i would euthanize her as she cries off and on day and night. Last night was particularlly difficult for her. we were up to gether and I spent a long time just petting her head. It hurts her to be touched anywhere else. I realize my emotionsal state is from lack of sleep, but i am so sad for her.


Peacegoddess I feel so badly for the poor kitty and for you. I am a cat person too and we have rescued many from the humane society who needed homes. Loved them and gone through the sadness of losing them. They are some wonderful, intelligent loving little souls and it is awful to see any pet suffer so. I am sure she knows you are offering her comfort and love and that you know she appreciates your being with her. Bless you both.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Having glorious weather today. Would love to share it with the flood victims in Colorado. They certainly need a Climate change.


It's a beautiful brisk fall day here too, Huck. I sure hope the sun comes out and the people in CO get the help they need to start to get their lives put back together again.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Let's hope that Pope Francis will follow through with his latest remarks and make the church the place Jesus intended it to be beginning with St. Peter, one that takes care of the needs of all it's "lambs".


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> it is much more interesting in our threads than theirs.


If that is true, they why are you always on our threads?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through with the old and ill cat. I have a 15 year old guy who is my best buddy and is also diabetic. I have a great vet, and my guy is in good health as a result of her treatments. I feel incredibly fortunate. 

I have had to put down a couple of past elderly and ill feline friends. It's no picnic, but I have my sense of how much suffering I allow my pets to experience. I wish you were in the position to do what you think best.

I hope you can make the cat you're taking care of as comfortable as possible. A lot of people here are with you, thinking good thoughts for the sake of you and the poor kitty. It isn't much, but I'm adding my own to everyone else's.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If that is true, they why are you always on our threads?


They are obsessed with adoration for you


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I am in tears this morning. The past 2 weeks I have been caring for 8 cats one which is very old (16) and is quite feeble and needs medication. She is so sweet, but is slowly wasting away to nothing. If she were mine i would euthanize her as she cries off and on day and night. Last night was particularlly difficult for her. we were up to gether and I spent a long time just petting her head. It hurts her to be touched anywhere else. I realize my emotionsal state is from lack of sleep, but i am so sad for her.


Is there no way for you to contact the owners and explain what is actually going on with their cat? It is horrible to watch and listen to an animal be in pain. I, too, would euthanize her so she could be at peace and pain free.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> They are obsessed with adoration for you


Thanks LTL.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so sorry. You're in a difficult position. I'm glad she has you.

This brings up an interesting topic. Would you, as a human being, choose to end your own life peacefully when you choose?



peacegoddess said:


> I am in tears this morning. The past 2 weeks I have been caring for 8 cats one which is very old (16) and is quite feeble and needs medication. She is so sweet, but is slowly wasting away to nothing. If she were mine i would euthanize her as she cries off and on day and night. Last night was particularlly difficult for her. we were up to gether and I spent a long time just petting her head. It hurts her to be touched anywhere else. I realize my emotionsal state is from lack of sleep, but i am so sad for her.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If that is true, they why are you always on our threads?


Your threads? I thought they were all open to anyone, as I believe you said very recently.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're a glutton for punishment.



Huckleberry said:


> Cheeky Blighter
> would like to meet their Teacher.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Cheeky. Just ready for a change.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I guess some don't realize that there can be multiple definitions and meanings for words and our use of the word had nothing to do with our Hispanic sisters and brothers. We would never insult them. Some are only able to see things in a very negative way and this is just another example of how the right wing looks at the world from their very narrow view of it. She was being racist as you pointed out damemary not us.
> Your new avatar is lovely.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's just that it does no good to state opinions clearly with logic. So we amuse ourselves.

Please note that this is POV Liberal. Obviously your amusement is trying to upset the apple cart.



lovethelake said:


> And I know that you need to use double meanings because you think it is clever. Pretty pathetic that you do not have the courage to state your opinion without using the Urban Dictionary


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm so sorry. You're in a difficult position. I'm glad she has you.
> 
> This brings up an interesting topic. Would you, as a human being, choose to end your own life peacefully when you choose?


I've thought long and hard about this. People who are in good physical health but are experiencing difficulties in their lives sometimes commit suicide. I have heard and read that this is the result of anger, and a sort of perverse way to have the last word and leave the people a person loves behind and damaged.

Committing suiced near the end of one's life if a lot of suffering is incolved is a whole different subject. I think it's OK to miss the last, ugly part of one's life, like maybe a couple of weeks or months. That's what I'd do. Someone will remind us that this is a sin. I disagree with that idea.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the East is getting hammered with rain now. It's beautiful here. (Any time we break 100 degrees after a summer average of 95 degrees we're into fall.) I'm sending good thoughts to CO too.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> It's a beautiful brisk fall day here too, Huck. I sure hope the sun comes out and the people in CO get the help they need to start to get their lives put back together again.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Paybacks?



soloweygirl said:


> If that is true, they why are you always on our threads?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah. That must be it. Not.



lovethelake said:


> They are obsessed with adoration for you


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request. Aug. 28,2013

Remember West TX
Namaste

This was my first post on P.O.V. Liberal #1 and this thread is for Liberals who want to talk to each other. Obviously, we all know who we are and where we stand. If you are not a Liberal go and post somewhere else. You have your own threads and you know where they are. Yarnlady has a lovely thread she started for you as well. Show everyone on KP that you can behave as civilized adults and leave us alone. I did not go on your thread until KPG and LovetheLake made a death threat to a Liberal. They brought about the invasion by their crass "juvenile teenage boy behavior" and if they have any "Hutzpah" 'definition, unmitigated effrontery or impudence; gall.' they will show everyone what mature adults act like and never come to the liberal sites again. If you want to play like unruly destructive children then you will be treated as such. All you have at stake is your reputations and they are sadly in need of an overhaul and getting back to those Christian values you say you believe in but your behavior is far from Christlike. I will ignore any and all nasty posts made by the right or left directed at each other for the purpose of argument so Liberal ladies DO NOT DIGNIFY THEIR POSTS BY A RESPONSE TO THEM. IGNORE THEM. YOU ARE BETTER THAN THAT. IF YOU MUST REPLY TO THEM DO IT ON S&O NOT HERE. SATAN GET THEE BEHIND US AND OFF OF THIS THREAD ALONG WITH ALL YOUR LEGIONS OF DEMONS! ENOUGH SAID. Have a blessed day!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Paybacks?


Damemary, please don't waste your breath replying to them. I have asked them all to leave and we will see how adult and Christ like they are by their behavior and departure.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Things Republicans Believe

Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

The United States should get out of the United Nations, and our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

Government should relax regulation of Big Business and Big Money but crack down on individuals who use marijuana to relieve the pain of illness.

"Standing Tall for America" means firing your workers and moving their jobs to India.

A woman can't be trusted with decisions about her own body, but multi-national corporations can make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals and Hillary Clinton.

The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

Group sex and drug use are degenerate sins unless you someday run for governor of California as a Republican.

If condoms are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our long-time allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

HMOs and insurance companies have the interest of the public at heart.

Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy. Providing health care to all Americans is socialism.

Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him and a bad guy when Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense. A president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

You support states' rights, which means Attorney General John Ashcroft can tell states what local voter initiatives they have a right to adopt.

What Bill Clinton did in the 1960s is of vital national interest, but what Bush did in the '80s is irrelevant.

Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for spelling it out. No wonder my head has been spinning.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Things Republicans Believe
> 
> Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Peacegoddess, I am so sorry to hear about what you are going through with the old and ill cat. I have a 15 year old guy who is my best buddy and is also diabetic. I have a great vet, and my guy is in good health as a result of her treatments. I feel incredibly fortunate.
> 
> I have had to put down a couple of past elderly and ill feline friends. It's no picnic, but I have my sense of how much suffering I allow my pets to experience. I wish you were in the position to do what you think best.
> 
> I hope you can make the cat you're taking care of as comfortable as possible. A lot of people here are with you, thinking good thoughts for the sake of you and the poor kitty. It isn't much, but I'm adding my own to everyone else's.


Same, Maid. I adore cats and hate to see them suffer. Our senior cat is getting on in years, and I dread the day when he's too ill to find any pleasure in life. Best wishes, peacegoddess.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, none of us is perfect, and most everyone on this thread has indulged in making some unpleasant posts now and then. For a long time POV was primarily filled with liberal ladies who engaged in inteligent discussion. Lately there seems to be some sort of invasion of the conservatives going on here. I agree, don't respond, don't engage them, etc. If they don't get the attention they seem to want so much, maybe we can starve them out.

Thanks for your post about getting back to the original purpose of this thread and back to acting like adults. It's a good reminder, and I, for one, will stay on my best behavior as often as I possibly can. If the conseratives are well advised to stick to their own topics, I can do the same and stay away from them.

Thanks for all you do here, Hang in
there! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I've thought long and hard about this. People who are in good physical health but are experiencing difficulties in their lives sometimes commit suicide. I have heard and read that this is the result of anger, and a sort of perverse way to have the last word and leave the people a person loves behind and damaged.
> 
> Committing suiced near the end of one's life if a lot of suffering is incolved is a whole different subject. I think it's OK to miss the last, ugly part of one's life, like maybe a couple of weeks or months. That's what I'd do. Someone will remind us that this is a sin. I disagree with that idea.


I think the key word is "peaceful". A second cousin blew his brains out with a gun, and the aftermath was an absolute horror. Dying in bed, even by one's own hand, is one thing--forcing one's family to confront a swinging corpse or a headless body is something else again.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think the key word is "peaceful". A second cousin blew his brains out with a gun, and the aftermath was an absolute horror. Dying in bed, even by one's own hand, is one thing--forcing one's family to confront a swinging corpse or a headless body is something else again.


I agree. That's why I tried to say something about people who commit suicide out of what they believe is incurable personal anguish, but what many mental health professionsals condsider is really done out of anger and as the ultimate way to get the last word.

A great way to punish whoever someone believes made their life a living hell is to do it in the messiest way possible. Leaving an indelible picture in the supposed villian's (or villians') mind sure make a powerful statement.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> On the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington we are beginning a new liberal point of view thread. If you share the dream with Dr. King and other non-violent and progressive minded people please join in with us on this thread. I am asking that if your intentions are other than that to please have some self-respect and post elsewhere. Thank for your respecting this request. Aug. 28,2013
> 
> Remember West TX
> Namaste
> ...


Bravo, Cheeky. Let's give it another try. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

P U !


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good, bad or neither. What does the strong market mean long term for the country? Should we be encouraged or discouraged? What is next with so many unknowns on the horizon?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2013/09/18/stocks-sp500-record-high/2830409/ - 58k - Cached - Similar pages


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Think about it.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks for reminding us all of the original purpose. 
I have one more cheeky thing to say today about Saint Ronald Reagan......Nancy Reagan (née Davis) was pregnant when they married. This after the affair with Nancy whist he was still married to Jane Wyman. I don't mind the affair, the pregnancy, the divorce, etc. I loathe the hypocrisy. And the fact that whatever their shortcomings personally, Bill and Hillary stayed together, did the work, stayed married....and still are. And, yet, they are vilified. And Benghazi ..... general Petraious testified in front of the same committee trying to lunch Hillary, that there was no there, there. The committee of crazies just refused to hear that.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Thanks for reminding us all of the original purpose.
> I have one more cheeky thing to say today about Saint Ronald Reagan......Nancy Reagan (née Davis) was pregnant when they married. This after the affair with Nancy whist he was still married to Jane Wyman. I don't mind the affair, the pregnancy, the divorce, etc. I loathe the hypocrisy. And the fact that whatever their shortcomings personally, Bill and Hillary stayed together, did the work, stayed married....and still are. And, yet, they are vilified. And Benghazi ..... general Petraious testified in front of the same committee trying to lunch Hillary, that there was no there, there. The committee of crazies just refused to hear that.


And besides all the Iran-Contra stuff and they still want to kiss his butt. Bill Clinton has done more for the world since he left the presidency than Reagan did in his whole lifetime, and I am looking forward to Hillary as president.


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Living Wage for All.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Thanks for reminding us all of the original purpose.
> I have one more cheeky thing to say today about Saint Ronald Reagan......Nancy Reagan (née Davis) was pregnant when they married. This after the affair with Nancy whist he was still married to Jane Wyman. I don't mind the affair, the pregnancy, the divorce, etc. I loathe the hypocrisy. And the fact that whatever their shortcomings personally, Bill and Hillary stayed together, did the work, stayed married....and still are. And, yet, they are vilified. And Benghazi ..... general Petraious testified in front of the same committee trying to lunch Hillary, that there was no there, there. The committee of crazies just refused to hear that.


And Jane Wyman was right...I mean left. Good post.


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Pres Reagan brought us the 1st 9/11 when the USbacked forces overturned the democratic Pres Allende and replaced him with Pinochet.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> And besides all the Iran-Contra stuff and they still want to kiss his butt. Bill Clinton has done more for the world since he left the presidency than Reagan did in his whole lifetime, and I am looking forward to Hillary as president.


The other 49 and Puerto Rico only experienced him as president Californians had him for 8 years. He wreacked this state. Pat Brown is still rolling in his grave!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Is there no way for you to contact the owners and explain what is actually going on with their cat? It is horrible to watch and listen to an animal be in pain. I, too, would euthanize her so she could be at peace and pain free.


I have E-mailed them, but they wish for her to live until she dies. Their thought is if she is still eating then she is not ready to go.

Thank you everyone. I was being a bit of a big baby, but feel so comforted now.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm so sorry. You're in a difficult position. I'm glad she has you.
> 
> This brings up an interesting topic. Would you, as a human being, choose to end your own life peacefully when you choose?


My daughter has instructions and a list of herbal tinctures that will help me on my way. I think Hospice is a very caring path for the end of life experience. Here in SF we have the Zen Hospice Center and a friend's 98 year old grandmother spent her last week there it was really helpfull and respectful to both Lydia (granny) and those of us who sat with heer for hours and days.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The other 49 and Puerto Rico only experienced him as president Californians had him for 8 years. He wreacked this state. Pat Brown is still rolling in his grave!


Amen, Sister I'm born and raised in Hollywood and remember his governing well. Truly Pat Brown is turning in his grave. The day RR was elected governor, my dear husband, Ron, was getting off a freeway ramp on Cahuenga Blvd. and cried all the way home.

Oh and I meant the committee was trying to lynch Hil not lunch. God bless the iPad automatic spelling changes!! Makes for lots of lol


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MindyT said:


> Thanks for reminding us all of the original purpose.
> I have one more cheeky thing to say today about Saint Ronald Reagan......Nancy Reagan (née Davis) was pregnant when they married. This after the affair with Nancy whist he was still married to Jane Wyman. I don't mind the affair, the pregnancy, the divorce, etc. I loathe the hypocrisy. And the fact that whatever their shortcomings personally, Bill and Hillary stayed together, did the work, stayed married....and still are. And, yet, they are vilified. And Benghazi ..... general Petraious testified in front of the same committee trying to lunch Hillary, that there was no there, there. The committee of crazies just refused to hear that.


I never saw the charm that so many said he had. I liked the old days in some ways and one of them was that what people do in the privacy of their bedroom, marital or otherwise is no one's business. I don't like to know about anyone's intimate life and if someone is unfaithful it's nobodies business to tell them to get a divorce or "stand by" their man or woman. I look to politicians for leadership and how they take care of the American people. 
I will be very happy to vote for Clinton. I can hardly wait to see the debates to see her take on whoever the GOP can come up with. It will also be interesting to see who she will pick for a running mate.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> My daughter has instructions and a list of herbal tinctures that will help me on my way. I think Hospice is a very caring path for the end of life experience. Here in SF we have the Zen Hospice Center and a friend's 98 year old grandmother spent her last week there it was really helpfull and respectful to both Lydia (granny) and those of us who sat with heer for hours and days.


I was really worried about my dad having to make end of life decisions when my mom's body started shutting down and as a lifelong Catholic he did talk to his priest and also his children. He decided to "let go" and I am sure it was the hardest decision he ever made after being married to my mom for 65 years. The facility she was in was wonderful and they made mom comfortable and we all got to say our goodbyes. It was so sad but it was also a beautiful experience for all of us. I don't believe people should be forced to live as long as possible without dignity and we knew that was what she believed too. Just because we have the technology to keep a body going it doesn't mean we should.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitish said:


> Living Wage for All.


I totally agree :thumbup:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Knitish said:


> Pres Reagan brought us the 1st 9/11 when the USbacked forces overturned the democratic Pres Allende and replaced him with Pinochet.


Absolutely. It is not ancient history - it was a terrible crime against a democratically-elected government and a very decent man.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> They are obsessed with adoration for you


lovethelake
just checking if any growing up is happening. Sorry, no progress in sight.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> Paybacks?


In my opinion, your comment sums up how you live your life. Not paying it forward, but punishing people that disagree with you


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There's a very intersting article about President Clinton being a vegan in the latest issue of AARP's magazine. I'm probably the last to know this, but if not, it's a good article.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Every time someone starts to say how wild and weird California is and that we only have hippies and pot I remind them that California gave the nation Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.

"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981

"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California.

The man had such a way with stupidity.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Every time someone starts to say how wild and weird California is and that we only have hippies and pot I remind them that California gave the nation Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.
> 
> "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981
> 
> ...


Just have to post my t-shirt that I've saved all these years


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go God!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> :hunf:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think a strong market is good for our economy and for our country at large. The key is stringent regulation backed by enforcement. Our Treasuries speak volumes all over the world. Our economy supports our defense system. Things start to crumble without a strong economy. IMHO



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good, bad or neither. What does the strong market mean long term for the country? Should we be encouraged or discouraged? What is next with so many unknowns on the horizon?
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2013/09/18/stocks-sp500-record-high/2830409/ - 58k - Cached - Similar pages


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

NJG said:


> And besides all the Iran-Contra stuff and they still want to kiss his butt. Bill Clinton has done more for the world since he left the presidency than Reagan did in his whole lifetime, and I am looking forward to Hillary as president.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: If she's willing to take on the job at this stage of her life.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And stupid people love him. He was a good enough actor to pull the wool over their eyes. And he was a bad movie actor.



peacegoddess said:


> Every time someone starts to say how wild and weird California is and that we only have hippies and pot I remind them that California gave the nation Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.
> 
> "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go back to sleep.



joeysomma said:


> How much? Are they willing to work for it?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

And S I Hayakawa...can anyone forget him? What an embarassament he was!

I'm going to speak my mind because I have nothing to lose.
S. I. Hayakawa 

You guys are both saying the same thing. The only reason you're arguing is because you're using different words.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How much? Are they willing to work for it?


I doubt there is a number, they just throw out phrases to feel good about themselves

Doubt if they are willing to work from the ground up like we all had to do. Too busy hanging on to the cow's udder, sucking the life out of her


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

LTL, your dead fish quote applies to you. You should really leave. The flies are starting to get thick. I'm sure the rest of the CHINO's miss you terribly and we really can do without the smell. Thanks.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I feel terrible for the Colorado flood victims. I can only hope that they can get food and water, clothing, shoes etc ASAP.

In no way am I trying to polticize the tragedy,but I just have to point out that 4 Republican congressmen from Colorado
Mike Coffman, Cory Gardner, Doug Lamborn, and Scott Timpton all have asked for Federal Disaster Relief.

These same four congressman voted *no* for relief for the victims of Hurricane Sandy. Isn't that just the way of this horrible group of people that make up the GOP?

I won't give a dime to help victims of another state, but they damned better vote to help my state.
Sad.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I feel terrible for the Colorado flood victims. I can only hope that they can get food and water, clothing, shoes etc ASAP.
> 
> In no way am I trying to polticize the tragedy,but I just have to point out that 4 Republican congressmen from Colorado
> Mike Coffman, Cory Gardner, Doug Lamborn, and Scott Timpton all have asked for Federal Disaster Relief.
> ...


I hearad that too. They should be ashamed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Just have to post my t-shirt that I've saved all these years


Love the shirt Andrea. Now if we can get Bachmann to move to Alaska and stay there with Palin we would have one less idiot running around in MN.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Go back to sleep.


Go St. Michael and keep Satan and her demons locked in hell!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There's a very intersting article about President Clinton being a vegan in the latest issue of AARP's magazine. I'm probably the last to know this, but if not, it's a good article.


He really got a scare when he had his heart problems. He said he was a fast food junkie and that took it's toll on him. I knew he lost weight and was eating healthier but didn't know he was vegan. I wish I could do it myself but I just am not there yet.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

NJG said:


> I heard that too. They should be ashamed.


I don't think they are capable of feeling shame. They lost that ability the same time they lost compassion for other humans.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> He really got a scare when he had his heart problems. He said he was a fast food junkie and that took it's toll on him. I knew he lost weight and was eating healthier but didn't know he was vegan. I wish I could do it myself but I just am not there yet.


I'd be able to be a vegetarian, but being vegan might be a little harsh for me. I think having a serious health problem gives a person a good scare. Whether or not a person changes his/her diet depends on his/her personality and how afraid of dying s/he is.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I feel terrible for the Colorado flood victims. I can only hope that they can get food and water, clothing, shoes etc ASAP.
> 
> In no way am I trying to polticize the tragedy,but I just have to point out that 4 Republican congressmen from Colorado
> Mike Coffman, Cory Gardner, Doug Lamborn, and Scott Timpton all have asked for Federal Disaster Relief.
> ...


let's lay this out.......
you are a republican who believes in smaller government
you want to lower taxes
the federal government uses taxes to pay for FEMA
you didn't vote to maintain taxes and support federal government
you do not get to ask for FEMA support

I would not support not sending FEMA in, but the citizens of Colorado should look closely at their representatives votes in Congress

Send a check to a local non profit group assisting flood victims, or send a woman's care package with tampons/sanitary napkins, (especially these two as people forget that a woman's system continues to function) undergarments, hand cream, shampoo, tooth brush and paste etc.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Here's a tidbit that probably did not receive national exposure.

Several months ago Yarnel Wildfire in AZ ocurred. The area lost 100 homes in a mountain community. It was sad. Gov Brewer applied for FEMA assistance. She was refused. It was stated that most of the damage was covered by insurance or that the state could easily handle this. She is incensed. She appealed, to no avail. Compare this to the scope of the damage of Katrina or Sandy. That's the GOP. Pork is pork, unless it's a barbeque in their state.



NJG said:


> I hearad that too. They should be ashamed.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Here's a tidbit that probably did not receive national exposure.
> 
> Several months ago Yarnel Wildfire in AZ ocurred. The area lost 100 homes in a mountain community. It was sad. Gov Brewer applied for FEMA assistance. She was refused. It was stated that most of the damage was covered by insurance or that the state could easily handle this. She is incensed. She appealed, to no avail. Compare this to the scope of the damage of Katrina or Sandy. That's the GOP. Pork is pork, unless it's a barbeque in their state.


Wasn't it Brewer who put her finger in the President's face?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> let's lay this out.......
> you are a republican who believes in smaller government
> you want to lower taxes
> the federal government uses taxes to pay for FEMA
> ...


I have some things put together, but I need to contact a Red Cross to find out where to ship them.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I have E-mailed them, but they wish for her to live until she dies. Their thought is if she is still eating then she is not ready to go.
> 
> Thank you everyone. I was being a bit of a big baby, but feel so comforted now.


You're allowed to be "a bit of a big baby" when it comes to caring for animals. If only they spoke like we do and could tell us what they want or where it hurts or how much they like it when you scratch them behind the ears.

Sick Kitty may not be ready to go, since she is still eating. Older cats do get senile sometimes and one component of that is lengthy howling and meowing while wandering around kind of aimlessly.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Every time someone starts to say how wild and weird California is and that we only have hippies and pot I remind them that California gave the nation Ronald Reagan and Richard Nixon.
> 
> "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981
> 
> ...


In the mid-60's, the State Superintendent of Education, a Reagan apointee, (I think I got the title right...) said of my high school in particular that "they only teach sex, drugs and rock'n'roll there.". Quite a few kids went around saying they knew where the sex and rock were, but wanted to know where the drugs were to keep some of the grown-ups busy worrying about an absolutely non-existant flood of drugs on campus. Ah, we were sneaky little buggers.

When Reagan first ran for Governor of Califirnia, a kid in my Russian class got 500 bumper stickers made up that said "Stark Reagan MAD" with the word "mad" printed like it is on Mad Magazine. I never did stick mine on a bumper, and still have it among my keepsakes.

We had some general fun about poltical issues plus taking them seriously. The year before I started high school the school's Young Socialists club managed to sneak an unapproved diatribe into the school's daily paper. They got disbanded for that. When I got there I had the clever idea that we could still have that club if we called it "The Socialism Study Group". Worked like a charm.

My favorite protest against the school's authoritarians was to go barefoot and see how long it took for any of the big cheeses to notice. I usually made it through most of the day before I got sent to the Dean of Girls who would just sigh and tell me to go away. After all, she had lots bigger fish to discipline, like girls who carried razors in their hairdos. I got into wearing ankle length skirts and actually got sent home to change my clothes. Kinda shocked my mother a bit as I had left the house with the wastebands of my long skirts rolled up so she didn't know about the long skirt thing until the first time I got sent home.

I sure enjoyed thinking up ways to be technically disobedient without damaging people or property. Used a quill pen and a bottle of india ink. Knitted in class. Didn't respond to the teachers I didn't think much of, but still got straight A's which really drove 'em crazy. Some kind of "we don't punish the good students as hard as the bad ones" thing going on there.

I was not alone in perpetrating this kind of rebelion. There were about 3,000 students at my high school, and one of the kids my group was a Friend. He wasn't allowed to swear otaths which meant he couldn't say the Pledge of Allegience at assemblies. He got a bunch of flak about that until a couple hundred kids started staying in their seats to show solidarity and support his religious practice. Could it be that those were the good old days? How did I get into posting this ancient history?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

YUP.



BrattyPatty said:


> Wasn't it Brewer who put her finger in the President's face?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I think a strong market is good for our economy and for our country at large. The key is stringent regulation backed by enforcement. Our Treasuries speak volumes all over the world. Our economy supports our defense system. Things start to crumble without a strong economy. IMHO


I do agree with you on this point. That is why it is such a shame our economy is stagnating. There has been no growth to speak of during the last 5 years. With the new regulations coming up, there doesn't look like there will be any growth either.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I doubt there is a number, they just throw out phrases to feel good about themselves
> 
> Doubt if they are willing to work from the ground up like we all had to do. Too busy hanging on to the cow's udder, sucking the life out of her


That number resides next to paying one's fair share. No one will commit to stating what those numbers are, they just like making a point using them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)




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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> let's lay this out.......
> you are a republican who believes in smaller government
> you want to lower taxes
> the federal government uses taxes to pay for FEMA
> ...


When one looks closely at the actual aid from FEMA and the horror stories of the victims attempting to deal with the government's "help", it certainly makes one wonder why FEMA is even in existence. As far as Sandy victims are concerned, they were getting nothing but the run around from FEMA with delay after delay. After a short period of time, the neighborhoods were rallying together and were able to get things done. Out of state family and friends were able to do much more to help than the government. Businesses were also able to help, once they realized no aid or help was getting to the victims.

As for Katrina, the Dem governor didn't ask the federal government for help for days. This is the procedure that has to be followed. New Orleans Democratic mayor didn't ask either. Naturally, Bush was blamed for the slow arrival of help, despite asking the governor directly if he wanted federal help within the first few hours. Katrina and the aftermath was a learning curve for FEMA. It doesn't appear they learned all that much as they seem to be just as clueless as ever with each disaster.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bill Moyers provides information on what is costs families to live today based on family size and where you live in the United States. Expenses are broken out also. Use the calculator and see if you think these are reasonable amounts for your family and where you are. Then compare it to what the Federal poverty guidelines and SNAP qualification levels for assistance and see if they are reasonable or if people are coming up short.

http://billmoyers.com/2013/09/18/why-is-the-federal-poverty-line-so-low/ - 82k -

Federal Poverty Guidelines

http://www.familiesusa.org/resources/tools-for-advocates/guides/federal-poverty-guidelines.html - 51k - C

SNAP or Food Stamp Assisitance Guidelines

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1269 - 45k - Cached -


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I do agree with you on this point. That is why it is such a shame our economy is stagnating. There has been no growth to speak of during the last 5 years. With the new regulations coming up, there doesn't look like there will be any growth either.


How can there be any growth if the middle class and the working poor have no money to spend? I'm sick of subsidizing Walmart's lack of decent wages that enable their employees to qualify for government assistance. Isn't it time for corporations to take some responsibility like the rest of us have had to? They benefit from living here, too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> How can there be any growth if the middle class and the working poor have no money to spend? I'm sick of subsidizing Walmart's lack of decent wages that enable their employees to qualify for government assistance. Isn't it time for corporations to take some responsibility like the rest of us have had to? They benefit from living here, too.


The Walton family has benefited greatly by living in this country and I feel it is wrong that I or any other taxpayer has to subsidize this billionaire family who does not pay their employees enough money to even be able to purchase the health insurance that Walmart offers their employees. When you talk about putting a number on how much is enough pay that might be good place to start. Every place I ever worked, with the exception of A&W when I was in high school offered employees health insurance and virtually all employees purchased it unless their spouse carried it or they were a young employee who felt they didn't need it. I think that is fair don't you?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'd be able to be a vegetarian, but being vegan might be a little harsh for me. I think having a serious health problem gives a person a good scare. Whether or not a person changes his/her diet depends on his/her personality and how afraid of dying s/he is.


In the AARP article, Clinton said he wanted to live to see some grandchildren. You're right, some people need a big scare to change their ways. We have a couple of lacto-ovo vegetarian meals a week at my house because I make a few dishes that way that are favorites. I also do it to economise. I'd do the vegan thing, but I'm cooking for my mother and I and I don't think such a radical change would be good for her.

I don't mean that the vegan diet is unhealthy in any way. At our house, it would mean an adjustment I don't think it's prudent to make. However, I plan to look at the vegan way of eating and try to add one vegan dinner a week to our menu.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> How can there be any growth if the middle class and the working poor have no money to spend? I'm sick of subsidizing Walmart's lack of decent wages that enable their employees to qualify for government assistance. Isn't it time for corporations to take some responsibility like the rest of us have had to? They benefit from living here, too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Has anyone here hearsd of the Institute for Local Self Reliance?
This is just one of their articles. (not complete here)
Aug 21, 2013
Walmarts Latest Buy America Sham
The content that follows was originally published on the Institute for Local Self-Reliance website at http://www.ilsr.org/walmarts-latest-buy-america-sham/
Almost 30 years ago, as the U.S. was bleeding jobs, Walmart launched a Buy America program and started hanging Made in America signs in its 750 stores. It was a marketing success, cementing the retailers popularity in the countrys struggling, blue-collar heartland. A few years later, NBCs Dateline revealed the program to be a sham. Sure, Walmart was willing to buy U.S.-made goods  so long as they were as cheap as imports, which, of course, they werent. Dateline found that Walmarts sourcing was in fact rapidly shifting to Asia.

This year, Walmart is back with a new Buy America program. In January, the company announced that it would purchase an additional $50 billion worth of domestic goods over the next decade. This week, Walmart is convening several hundred suppliers, along with a handful of governors, for a summit on U.S. manufacturing.

This sounds pretty substantial, but in fact its just a more sophisticated and media savvy version of Walmarts hollow 1980s Buy America campaign. For starters, $50 billion over a decade may sound huge at first, but measured against Walmarts galactic size, its not. An additional $5 billion a year amounts to only 1.5 percent of what Walmart currently spends on inventory.

Worse, very little of this small increase in spending on American-made goods will actually result in new U.S. production and jobs. Most of the projected increase will simply be a byproduct of Walmarts continued takeover of the grocery industry. Most grocery products sold in the U.S. are produced here. As Walmart expands its share of U.S. grocery sales  it now captures 25 percent, up from 6 percent in 1998  it will buy more U.S. foods. But this doesnt mean new jobs, because other grocers are losing market share and buying less. What it does mean is lower wages. As I reported earlier this year, Walmarts growing control of the grocery sector is pushing down wages throughout food production.

Groceries now account for 55 percent of Walmarts U.S. revenue, up from 24 percent in 2003. The company is planning to grow that ratio even further, with about 100 Neighborhood Market stores (Walmarts new-ish supermarket format) in the pipeline this year alone, along with 125 new supercenters. So we can expect that at least half of Walmarts new spending on U.S. goods will be for groceries, with no net gain in jobs and, very likely, a further decline in wages.

As for the rest, to a large extent, Walmart is simply taking credit for a shift that has already happened. CONTINUE READING


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Our economy is slowly emerging from the most serious downturn since the Great Depression. The slow growth has prevented rapid inflation, which would have caused many, many more problems.

This is during a time when the Congress has been fighting for points instead of doing what's best for the American people. Regulation is definitely needed. Remember the bank bailout and the housing debacle?



soloweygirl said:


> I do agree with you on this point. That is why it is such a shame our economy is stagnating. There has been no growth to speak of during the last 5 years. With the new regulations coming up, there doesn't look like there will be any growth either.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps the GOP needs its own private disaster.



soloweygirl said:


> When one looks closely at the actual aid from FEMA and the horror stories of the victims attempting to deal with the government's "help", it certainly makes one wonder why FEMA is even in existence. As far as Sandy victims are concerned, they were getting nothing but the run around from FEMA with delay after delay. After a short period of time, the neighborhoods were rallying together and were able to get things done. Out of state family and friends were able to do much more to help than the government. Businesses were also able to help, once they realized no aid or help was getting to the victims.
> 
> As for Katrina, the Dem governor didn't ask the federal government for help for days. This is the procedure that has to be followed. New Orleans Democratic mayor didn't ask either. Naturally, Bush was blamed for the slow arrival of help, despite asking the governor directly if he wanted federal help within the first few hours. Katrina and the aftermath was a learning curve for FEMA. It doesn't appear they learned all that much as they seem to be just as clueless as ever with each disaster.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> How can there be any growth if the middle class and the working poor have no money to spend? I'm sick of subsidizing Walmart's lack of decent wages that enable their employees to qualify for government assistance. Isn't it time for corporations to take some responsibility like the rest of us have had to? They benefit from living here, too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please keep those favorite recipes coming. They have always given me good ideas. Best to you and your Mom.



MaidInBedlam said:


> In the AARP article, Clinton said he wanted to live to see some grandchildren. You're right, some people need a big scare to change their ways. We have a couple of lacto-ovo vegetarian meals a week at my house because I make a few dishes that way that are favorites. I also do it to economise. I'd do the vegan thing, but I'm cooking for my mother and I and I don't think such a radical change would be good for her.
> 
> I don't mean that the vegan diet is unhealthy in any way. At our house, it would mean an adjustment I don't think it's prudent to make. However, I plan to look at the vegan way of eating and try to add one vegan dinner a week to our menu.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I avoid shopping at WalMart on principle.



peacegoddess said:


> Has anyone here hearsd of the Institute for Local Self Reliance?
> This is just one of their articles. (not complete here)
> Aug 21, 2013
> Walmarts Latest Buy America Sham
> ...


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> When one looks closely at the actual aid from FEMA and the horror stories of the victims attempting to deal with the government's "help", it certainly makes one wonder why FEMA is even in existence. As far as Sandy victims are concerned, they were getting nothing but the run around from FEMA with delay after delay. After a short period of time, the neighborhoods were rallying together and were able to get things done. Out of state family and friends were able to do much more to help than the government. Businesses were also able to help, once they realized no aid or help was getting to the victims.
> 
> As for Katrina, the Dem governor didn't ask the federal government for help for days. This is the procedure that has to be followed. New Orleans Democratic mayor didn't ask either. Naturally, Bush was blamed for the slow arrival of help, despite asking the governor directly if he wanted federal help within the first few hours. Katrina and the aftermath was a learning curve for FEMA. It doesn't appear they learned all that much as they seem to be just as clueless as ever with each disaster.


I do not think FEMA is necessarily the cure all, but legislators should not be hypocrits when it comes to such issues as wanting assistance from a tax supported fed program and not supporting the system that taxes.

On the note of Sandyhook, the local Occupy Movement was in the thick of organizing support in the neighborhoods. All those "radical lefty socialists" managed better in some instances than the Red Cross.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> I avoid shopping at WalMart on principle.


I call it Screwmart.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Published on Monday, September 23, 2013 by Common Dreams
Add It Up: The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business
by Paul Buchheit
$6,000.

That's over and above our payments to the big companies for energy and food and housing and health care and all our tech devices. It's $6,000 that no family would have to pay if we truly lived in a competitive but well-regulated free-market economy.

The $6,000 figure is an average, which means that low-income families are paying less. But it also means that families (households) making over $72,000 are paying more than $6,000 to the corporations.

1. $870 for Direct Subsidies and Grants to Companies

The Cato Institute estimates that the U.S. federal government spends $100 billion a year on corporate welfare. That's an average of $870 for each one of America's 115 million families. Cato notes that this includes "cash payments to farmers and research funds to high-tech companies, as well as indirect subsidies, such as funding for overseas promotion of specific U.S. products and industries...It does not include tax preferences or trade restrictions."

It does include payments to 374 individuals on the plush Upper East Side of New York City, and others who own farms, including Bruce Springsteen, Bon Jovi, and Ted Turner. Wealthy heir Mark Rockefeller received $342,000 to NOT farm, to allow his Idaho land to return to its natural state.

It also includes fossil fuel subsidies, which could be anywhere from $10 billion to $41 billion per year for research and development. Yet this may be substantially underestimated. The IMF reports U.S. fossil fuel subsidies of $502 billion, which would be almost $4,400 per U.S. family by taking into account "the effects of energy consumption on global warming [and] on public health through the adverse effects on local pollution." According to Grist, even this is an underestimate.

2. $696 for Business Incentives at the State, County, and City Levels

The subsidies mentioned above are federal subsidies. A New York Times investigation found that states, counties and cities give up over $80 billion each year to companies, with beneficiaries coming from "virtually every corner of the corporate world, encompassing oil and coal conglomerates, technology and entertainment companies, banks and big-box retail chains."

$80 billion a year is $696 for every U.S. family. But the Times notes that "The cost of the awards is certainly far higher."

3. $722 for Interest Rate Subsidies for Banks

According to the Huffington Post, the "U.S. Government Essentially Gives The Banks 3 Cents Of Every Tax Dollar." They cite research that calculates a nearly 1 percent benefit to banks when they borrow, through bonds and customer deposits and other liabilities. This amounts to a taxpayer subsidy of $83 billion, or about $722 from every American family.

The wealthiest five banks -- JPMorgan, Bank of America Corp., Citigroup Inc., Wells Fargo & Co. and Goldman Sachs -- account for three-quarters of the total subsidy. The Huffington Post article notes that without the taxpayer subsidy, those banks would not make a profit. In other words, "the profits they report are essentially transfers from taxpayers to their shareholders."

4. $350 for Retirement Fund Bank Fees

This was a tough one to calculate. Demos reports that over a lifetime, bank fees can "cost a median-income two-earner family nearly $155,000 and consume nearly one-third of their investment returns." Fees are well over one percent a year.

However, the Economic Policy Institute notes that the average middle-quintile retirement account is $34,981. A conservative one percent annual management fee translates to about $350 per family. This, again, is an average; many families have no retirement account. But many families pay much more than 1% in annual fees.

5. $1,268 for Overpriced Medications

According to Dean Baker, "government granted patent monopolies raise the price of prescription drugs by close to $270 billion a year compared to the free market price." This represents an astonishing annual cost of over $2,000 to an average American family.

OECD figures on pharmaceutical expenditures reveal that Americans spend almost twice the OECD average on drugs, an additional $460 per capita. This translates to $1,268 per household.

6. $870 for Corporate Tax Subsidies

We've heard a lot about tax avoidance and tax breaks for the super-rich. With regard to corporations alone, the Tax Foundation has concluded that their "special tax provisions" cost taxpayers over $100 billion per year, or $870 per family. Corporate benefits include items such as Graduated Corporate Income, Inventory Property Sales, Research and Experimentation Tax Credit, Accelerated Depreciation, and Deferred taxes.

Once again, it may be even worse. Citizens for Tax Justice cite a Government Accountability Office report that calculated a loss to the Treasury of $181 billion from corporate tax expenditures. That would be almost $1,600 per family.

7. $1,231 for Revenue Losses from Corporate Tax Havens

U.S. PIRG recently reported that the average 2012 taxpayer paid an extra $1,026 in taxes to make up for the revenue lost from offshore tax havens by corporations and wealthy individuals. With 138 million taxpayers (1.2 per household), that comes to $1,231 per household.

Much More Than an Insult

Overall, American families are paying an annual $6,000 subsidy to corporations that have doubled their profits and cut their taxes in half in ten years while cutting 2.9 million jobs in the U.S. and adding almost as many jobs overseas.

This is more than an insult. It's a devastating attack on the livelihoods of tens of millions of American families. And Congress just lets it happen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Published on Monday, September 23, 2013 by Common Dreams
> Add It Up: The Average American Family Pays $6,000 a Year in Subsidies to Big Business
> by Paul Buchheit
> $6,000.
> ...


            

Shame.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Obamacares strange bedfellows

By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: September 22 E-mail the writer
COLUMBUS, Ohio

It was the last thing the Rev. Tim Ahrens expected to do during a chat in his book-lined office at the historic First Congregational Church here: He expressed admiration for Gov. John Kasich.

Ahrens is a progressive social activist whose house of worship has deep roots in the old Social Gospel movement. He has demonstrated and organized against Ohios conservative governor and, in 2011, even gave a kind of counter State of the State message outside the Capitol while Kasich was presenting his plans inside.

Yet Kasich, a one-time scourge of labor unions who was a top lieutenant in Newt Gingrichs revolution in the 1990s, has endeared himself to liberal and low-income Ohioans by insisting, loudly and incessantly, that his state participate in the Medicaid expansion under Obama­care. An unapologetic conservative is fighting the tea party and his own Republican legislature because he thinks the less privileged people of Ohio deserve health coverage.

Thus Ahrenss surprising confession last week, offered with a rueful smile: One of the things I admire about John Kasich  yes, I did say admire  is that if he connects to an individual who is hurting, he will respond. And having responded on the Medicaid issue, Kasich has gone all in. He has not wavered from that place, said Ahrens, who chairs the Central Ohio Medicaid Expansion Coalition. He has become a crusader. He will not let go of this.

Kasichs witness is important as an expression of his commitment to a form of evangelical Christianity that places a high priority on the poor. The governor told the Wall Street Journal last month of an encounter with a state legislator who disagreed with him on Medicaid. At heavens door, Kasich preached, St. Peter is probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor.

At a moment when the Beltway wing of the GOP is on the verge of shaking the economy to its foundations in an effort to block Obama­care, theres also a political lesson to be drawn from Ohio and from other states where Republican governors have embraced the expansion of Medicaid, which is a central component of the Affordable Care Act.

Just last week, Rick Snyder, Michigans Republican governor, signed a Medicaid expansion bill with an explanation that President Obama himself would endorse. This is about the health of fellow Michiganders, Snyder said. In Pennsylvania, Gov. Tom Corbett once excoriated Obamacare but said hed go along with a modified expansion. Another half-dozen Republican governors have also supported enlarging Medicaid, among them Chris Christie in New Jersey, Jan Brewer in Arizona and Susana Martinez in New Mexico.

These chief executives usually follow the party line in being critical of the health law in principle. But they have responsibilities that the radical ideologues in Washington dont have  to their local hospitals, to their economies and, yes, to their constituents among the working poor who now lack insurance. They understand the difference between Obamacare as a right-wing bogeyman and the Affordable Care Act as a reality.

Here in Ohio, another of Kasichs new allies on Medicaid is Columbus Mayor Michael Coleman. The first African American to lead the city, Coleman proudly describes himself as a pro-business Democrat, a coalition builder and an advocate of school reform. Kasich and I dont agree on too much, Coleman, the 14-year incumbent, told me. But on this one, hes right.

Like many Americans in the middle of the country, the mayor finds Washingtons current antics entirely strange.Hes especially impatient with ideologues whose views are based on a sweeping anti-government philosophy instead of pragmatic thinking about what efficiently run government can achieve.

Those people who talk that way have no real-life experiences, Coleman said. The mayor then issued an invitation to a hypothetical congressional dogmatist  Mr. Philosophizer, he called him  to walk his citys neighborhoods with him to learn about the problems of flesh-and-blood citizens.

Its not clear that Kasich will win his fight on behalf of such citizens. Conservatives in his legislature worry as much about tea-party challenges as congressional Republicans do and could continue to block expansion. If that happens, Ahrens said that advocates of broader Medicaid coverage are preparing to place the issue on Ohios ballot. Current polls suggest it would win.

Tea-party philosophizers in Congress really should accept Colemans invitation. Seen from the ground, expanding health coverage is at once a practical and compassionate goal. Practicality and compassion are both missing in the manufactured rage against the abstraction known as Obamacare.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

13 Republican Congressmen/women who voted to fund their farms with millions of your tax dollars, and voted to cut $40 billion in food stamps and kick four million Americans off the SNAP program: Check them out!

http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/is-your-congressman-one-of-the-13-who-get-federal-farm-subsidies-but-voted-to-cut-food-stamps/politics/2013/09/21/75493


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I avoid shopping at WalMart on principle.


damemary
more and more communities are voting against Walmart coming in. Walmart are requesting long-term Tax abatement, pay their employees pittance and put the small businesses out of business. I support small businesses as much as possible. It is a pleasure to be appreciated and get personal service. I rather pay a little more and have no problem driving a little farther. Can't beat that personal touch.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> 13 Republican Congressmen/women who voted to fund their farms with millions of your tax dollars, and voted to cut $40 billion in food stamps and kick four million Americans off the SNAP program: Check them out!
> 
> http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/is-your-congressman-one-of-the-13-who-get-federal-farm-subsidies-but-voted-to-cut-food-stamps/politics/2013/09/21/75493


NJG
wasn't Michelle Bachmann's Family one of those Farm subsidy recipients? Got to love it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> 13 Republican Congressmen/women who voted to fund their farms with millions of your tax dollars, and voted to cut $40 billion in food stamps and kick four million Americans off the SNAP program: Check them out!
> 
> http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/is-your-congressman-one-of-the-13-who-get-federal-farm-subsidies-but-voted-to-cut-food-stamps/politics/2013/09/21/75493


I can only imagine that Bachmann was one of them.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> NJG
> wasn't Michelle Bachmann's Family one of those Farm subsidy recipients? Got to love it.


Yes she has received money for her family farm which she has part ownership in and husband Marcus received Medicaid money, because you know "he has a responsibility to provide care regardless of the patients ability to pay." I imagine it is expensive to pray away the gay!!!

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/01/michele-bachmann/rep-michele-bachmann-says-shes-never-received-penn/


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

NJG said:


> Yes she has received money for her family farm which she has part ownership in and husband Marcus received Medicaid money, because you know "he has a responsibility to provide care regardless of the patients ability to pay." I imagine it is expensive to pray away the gay!!!
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/01/michele-bachmann/rep-michele-bachmann-says-shes-never-received-penn/


There was a Bye Bye Bachmann party in St Francis a couple of weeks ago. Most people in her district are ecstatic she is leaving. They are both a couple of macadamias.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

NJG said:


> Yes she has received money for her family farm which she has part ownership in and husband Marcus received Medicaid money, because you know "he has a responsibility to provide care regardless of the patients ability to pay." I imagine it is expensive to pray away the gay!!!
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jul/01/michele-bachmann/rep-michele-bachmann-says-shes-never-received-penn/


No freaking way......he accepts Medicaid for trying to "cure" gays?

I am beyond pissed about that! What freaking hypocrites!!!!!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> There was a Bye Bye Bachmann party in St Francis a couple of weeks ago. Most people in her district are ecstatic she is leaving. They are both a couple of macadamias.


I can see people singing and dancing to Bye, Bye Bachmann to the tune of Bye, Bye, Birdie.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> No freaking way......he accepts Medicaid for trying to "cure" gays?
> 
> I am beyond pissed about that! What freaking hypocrites!!!!!!!


Yes they are!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I can see people singing and dancing to Bye, Bye Bachmann to the tune of Bye, Bye, Birdie.


LOL Al, that was my exact thought! I am sure there will be one here in St Cloud when she really is gone.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> No freaking way......he accepts Medicaid for trying to "cure" gays?
> 
> I am beyond pissed about that! What freaking hypocrites!!!!!!![/quote
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

She became "reborn to Christ" right before her presidential campaign. God told her to run for Congress and for the Presidency". She is not tolerated here. In any debate or forum, she was laughed off the stage.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

NJG said:


> peacegoddess said:
> 
> 
> > No freaking way......he accepts Medicaid for trying to "cure" gays?
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lucky for all she had fooled, she has been exposed to be corrupt and a thief. I am waiting to hear how her ethics charge cases turn out. I wonder if she will say that God told her to do it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I do agree with you on this point. That is why it is such a shame our economy is stagnating. There has been no growth to speak of during the last 5 years. With the new regulations coming up, there doesn't look like there will be any growth either.


soloweygirl
you may want to listen to Warren Buffett. No gloom and doom. Have you lived our whole live in a dark chamber?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bazinga for now ladies! Have to finish this sweater before Brynn grows again. Have a good night all!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes they are!


Yes, they are a christian counseling service.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the information. Give me pragmatic any day.



peacegoddess said:


> Obamacares strange bedfellows
> 
> By E.J. Dionne Jr., Published: September 22 E-mail the writer
> COLUMBUS, Ohio
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Conflict of interest much? All report enhancing their income from farm subsidies. Let the children starve.



NJG said:


> 13 Republican Congressmen/women who voted to fund their farms with millions of your tax dollars, and voted to cut $40 billion in food stamps and kick four million Americans off the SNAP program: Check them out!
> 
> http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/is-your-congressman-one-of-the-13-who-get-federal-farm-subsidies-but-voted-to-cut-food-stamps/politics/2013/09/21/75493


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How about 'ding dong the witch is dead?'



BrattyPatty said:


> LOL Al, that was my exact thought! I am sure there will be one here in St Cloud when she really is gone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Looney Tunes.



NJG said:


> peacegoddess said:
> 
> 
> > No freaking way......he accepts Medicaid for trying to "cure" gays?
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Please keep those favorite recipes coming. They have always given me good ideas. Best to you and your Mom.


I'll be home in a few days and one of the things that I'm going to do is get info on good nutrition with a vegan diet. The problem with getting recipes out of me is that I don't measure anything so people who want a recipe from me have to wait until I make whatever they want the recipe for and I measure everything and write it down.

Talking about food makes me wonder if there isn't an interesting discussion to be had about agribussiness, what's in our food, and what may be changing in terms of the choices we have about what to eat. I sure wish I had a place for a vegetable garden and a few chickens for the eggs. It was so much fun when I had those things and I knew exactly how everything had been grown.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'll be home in a few days and one of the things that I'm going to do is get info on good nutrition with a vegan diet. The problem with getting recipes out of me is that I don't measure anything so people who want a recipe from me have to wait until I make whatever they want the recipe for and I measure everything and write it down.
> 
> Talking about food makes me wonder if there isn't an interesting discussion to be had about agribussiness, what's in our food, and what may be changing in terms of the choices we have about what to eat. I sure wish I had a place for a vegetable garden and a few chickens for the eggs. It was so much fun when I had those things and I knew exactly how everything had been grown.


Many vegetables can be grown in containers no deeper than 10 to 12 inches. If you have a terrace or patio that gets good sun for 6 to 8 hours you can grow a nice container veggie garden.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're making me laugh. Some things I measure, like a cup of flour. Even that I don't fuss much with. Everything else is what I think I like. More herbs etc. Just a rough idea is fine with me. I frequently 'adjust' for a single serving because my husband is not adventurous with food.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'll be home in a few days and one of the things that I'm going to do is get info on good nutrition with a vegan diet. The problem with getting recipes out of me is that I don't measure anything so people who want a recipe from me have to wait until I make whatever they want the recipe for and I measure everything and write it down.
> 
> Talking about food makes me wonder if there isn't an interesting discussion to be had about agribussiness, what's in our food, and what may be changing in terms of the choices we have about what to eat. I sure wish I had a place for a vegetable garden and a few chickens for the eggs. It was so much fun when I had those things and I knew exactly how everything had been grown.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

I wish there was a bee keeper among us. I have a friend who keeps bees, maybe I can get some pointers from her. What I do know is the colony collapse going on around the country has to do with the use of pesticides. I have to look up the correct spelling, but it has " nicotine" in the beginning part. They are the death of our little honey makers as it makes the bees confused and they literally can't find their way back to the hive. The Bayer gardening products should not be used ever, and when you buy plants, ask what fertilizer has been used on them, as the mass market nurseries typically use the bad stuff. . Another reason not to go to the big box stores. Stick to local nurseries most now know better. I'll look up that nicotine product.


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

MindyT said:


> I wish there was a bee keeper among us. I have a friend who keeps bees, maybe I can get some pointers from her. What I do know is the colony collapse going on around the country has to do with the use of pesticides. I have to look up the correct spelling, but it has " nicotine" in the beginning part. They are the death of our little honey makers as it makes the bees confused and they literally can't find their way back to the hive. The Bayer gardening products should not be used ever, and when you buy plants, ask what fertilizer has been used on them, as the mass market nurseries typically use the bad stuff. . Another reason not to go to the big box stores. Stick to local nurseries most now know better. I'll look up that nicotine product.


Here is a good link and has the info: 
http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2012/01/bee-killing-pesticides-not-just-corn-fields


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> You're making me laugh. Some things I measure, like a cup of flour. Even that I don't fuss much with. Everything else is what I think I like. More herbs etc. Just a rough idea is fine with me. I frequently 'adjust' for a single serving because my husband is not adventurous with food.


damemary
do I want to be a Pharmacist in my Kitchen? The answer is no. Sure, when I started out to cook I measured but I have progressed to putting nice meals together without scales and measuring spoons. When baking sometimes I do weigh and measure the ingredients. Rule of thumb works splendidly. It seems that Cook Books have become a fad.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Many vegetables can be grown in containers no deeper than 10 to 12 inches. If you have a terrace or patio that gets good sun for 6 to 8 hours you can grow a nice container veggie garden.


Unfortunately, I live in a heavily shaded apartment building. I'd be doing the container thing if I could.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Unfortunately, I live in a heavily shaded apartment building. I'd be doing the container thing if I could.


I understand. I used to have splendid gardens, but the deck at my little place is 2nd level of 3 levels and the sun exposure is very limited. Plus most SF neighborhoods are too foggy most of the year. I wish my little place was in the banana belt.....Mission Potrero Hill, Visitation Valley areas.

Is there a community garden area near you that you can access a plot?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I understand. I used to have splendid gardens, but the deck at my little place is 2nd level of 3 levels and the sun exposure is very limited. Plus most SF neighborhoods are too foggy most of the year. I wish my little place was in the banana belt.....Mission Potrero Hill, Visitation Valley areas.
> 
> Is there a community garden area near you that you can access a plot?


I don't know if there's a community garden nearby. Well, there is the Gill Tract where some bunch of people who are protesting something I don't remember are growing but when I still knew what the issues were I disapproved. Don't want to go there and meet the silly s--ts and listen to bozo ideas. I'd want to argue back and that would be useless.

There are a few vacant lots and I've thought about finding out who owns them and asking if I could grow some veggies there. Seattle has a cools program called Pea Patch were there are lots that you can get a space in to garden. It's been a very successful program. Does this mean I should try to create a program like that where I live? Does that mean I might have to stop being relatively lazy? Yes to both, but it might work. Time to do some reasearch, at the very least.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't know if there's a community garden nearby. Well, there is the Gill Tract where some bunch of people who are protesting something I don't remember are growing but when I still knew what the issues were I disapproved. Don't want to go there and meet the silly s--ts and listen to bozo ideas. I'd want to argue back and that would be useless.
> 
> There are a few vacant lots and I've thought about finding out who owns them and asking if I could grow some veggies there. Seattle has a cools program called Pea Patch were there are lots that you can get a space in to garden. It's been a very successful program. Does this mean I should try to create a program like that where I live? Does that mean I might have to stop being relatively lazy? Yes to both, but it might work. Time to do some reasearch, at the very least.


Any place that has dirt and sun I would be on/in it! Having my hands in the dirt is second only to holding a baby in therapy for me. I have pictures of my first garden 36 years ago where my daughter, then 2, was sitting amongst the zucchini plants munching on a just picked zucchini.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> I wish there was a bee keeper among us. I have a friend who keeps bees, maybe I can get some pointers from her. What I do know is the colony collapse going on around the country has to do with the use of pesticides. I have to look up the correct spelling, but it has " nicotine" in the beginning part. They are the death of our little honey makers as it makes the bees confused and they literally can't find their way back to the hive. The Bayer gardening products should not be used ever, and when you buy plants, ask what fertilizer has been used on them, as the mass market nurseries typically use the bad stuff. . Another reason not to go to the big box stores. Stick to local nurseries most now know better. I'll look up that nicotine product.


Mindy, Are you familiar with the Sunflower Project? I do not think it is limited to the SF area.

www.greatsunflower.org/‎

The Great Sunflower Project, Citizen Science | Scientific American
www.scientificamerican.com/citizen..


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Mindy, Are you familiar with the Sunflower Project? I do not think it is limited to the SF area.
> 
> www.greatsunflower.org/‎
> 
> ...


It is partly about attracting bees.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

This is how the Tea Party says thank you to our men and women who served and are serving this country and to their families who wait for them back home.

Thank You Tea Party.

VoteVets.org

Last week, House Republicans including John Boehner, Rand Paul, Eric Cantor passed a Farm Bill that would kick 170,000 veterans off food assistance. 
Faced with a looming, losing debt ceiling fight, Tea Party Republicans have turned to veterans and the poor as a sacrifice designed to appease their austerity-starved base. 
We've been fighting this battle for a few months, but the stakes are higher than ever this week. 
It's critical that your Senator opposes any legislation that cuts food assistance for veterans and military family members.

http://action.votevets.org/food-assistance

It gets worse...

A Department of Agriculture study last year found that over 5,000 active duty service members receive food assistance. And, in the same year of the study, over $100,000 in food aid was used on military bases. 
Hundreds of veterans have also told us they're currently receiving assistance. We're got to fight for them on this issue. 
Please stand up for them in that effort.

All the best,

Jon Soltz 
@JonSoltz 
Iraq War Veteran and Chairman 
VoteVets.org

The House approved legislation Thursday that would cut $39 billion in funds over the next decade for food stamp programs.
Members approved H.R. 3102, the Nutrition Reform and Work Opportunity Act, in a close 217-210 vote. No Democrats voted for the bill, and 15 Republicans voted against GOP leaders.
The bill would authorize food stamp programs for three years.
The legislation, part of which was developed by Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-Va.), passed in the face of fierce opposition from House Democrats, a White House veto threat and warnings that it is already dead on arrival in the Democratic Senate. 
Several Democrats warned today that cutting $39 billion from the program, formally known as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP), is a cruel step that would only hurt people in need.
The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office estimated that up to 3.8 million people would lose food stamp benefits next year.
The vote was expected to be close, as a few Republicans had said they were undecided on how to vote. Just a day earlier, House Appropriations Committee Chairman Hal Rogers (R-Ky.) said he was looking at it, and two others said they were similarly undecided. 
Rogers waited until the nearly last minute before voting for the measure.
Most of the Republican defections came from the Northeast, including most of the New York GOP delegation.

"I have a lot of families that are struggling. This is a tough economy, and I didn't think it was the right time to be going that deep," said Rep. Pat Meehan (R-Pa.) of his no vote.
Rep. Michael Grimm (R-N.Y.) cited victims of Hurricane Sandy in his district who needed food stamps.

"I just felt the cuts were a little too steep, especially because right now, I have a lot of Sandy victims who have never been on assistance ever in their life," Grimm said. "And a lot of these hard-working families have lost everything, and for the first time, they're needing food stamps. So I didnt want to affect those Sandy victims."
Other Republicans voting against the bill were Reps. Shelly Moore Capito (W.Va.), Mike Fitzpatrick (Pa.), Jeff Fortenberry (Neb.), Chris Gibson (N.Y.), Richard Hanna (N.Y.), Walter Jones (N.C.), Pete King (N.Y.), Frank LoBiondo (N.J.), Gary Miller (Calif.), Chris Smith (N.J.), David Valadao (Calif.), Frank Wolf (Va.) and Don Young (Alaska).
Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), who frequently opposes leadership, waited until near the end before voting yes.

"That was a tough vote, yes," Amash said. "It's got some reforms that are important. I think these issues should be handled by the states, not by the federal government. But it's good to have a method for phasing these in while we transition over to the states."

Republicans stressed that the bill is needed to stop runaway spending in the food stamp program, which has roughly doubled under the Obama administration. They also said the bill is focused on reducing payments to able-bodied adults and focusing payments on more needy populations.
There's no denying that SNAP provides important support for many Americans who are struggling, said House Agriculture Committee Chairman Frank Lucas (R-Okla.). It serves a noble purpose to help you when you hit bottom. But it's not meant to keep you at the bottom.
Democrats criticized the measure.
Cutting the investment is a full assault on the health and economic security of millions of families, said Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.). I know one thing for sure: Every person who votes for this Republican measure is voting to hurt his or her own constituents.
The legislation contains many of the reforms Republicans pushed for earlier this year as part of a larger farm bill, such as limiting automatic eligibility for food stamps. But it also includes language developed by Cantor that would eliminate the option states have of seeking a waiver from rules that require able-bodied adults to work or participate in a job training program in order to receive extended SNAP benefits.
Democratic opponents of the bill have said Republican and Democratic governors have been asking for these waivers, making them something both parties have supported. Opponents also say killing the waiver would leave people with no options for food aid in states where jobs or job training programs don't exist.
But Cantor rejected those criticisms today. There's been a lot of demagoguery around this bill, and unfortunately a lot of misinformation, he said on the floor.
Because the truth is, anyone subjected to the work requirements under this bill who are  able-bodied, under 50, will not be denied benefits if only they are willing to sign up for the opportunity for work, he said. There is no requirement that jobs exist, there are workfare programs; there are options under the bill for community service.
Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) said he hoped passage of the bill would allow the House and Senate to convene a conference committee to finish up a unified farm bill.
Earlier this year, GOP leaders proposed a broader farm bill that included $20 billion in cuts to the food stamp program. But many Republicans demanded deeper cuts in an effort to further trim the rapidly growing program, and the GOP was forced to pass a farm bill without language on food stamps.
But even if a conference committee were assembled, the big differences between the House and Senate bills could pose problems for bicameral effort. One question is how to find agreement between the two chambers on a total level of food stamp spending  the Senate-passed farm bill only makes a $4 billion cut to SNAP.
Another question is whether to synchronize the authorization for commodity and food stamp programs. For years, both have been authorized together under a single five-year farm bill.
The House has tried to separate the two items. Over the summer, it passed a five-year bill dealing with farm commodity programs, but the food stamp bill passed today authorizes SNAP for just three years.
House Republicans pushed for the split in order to more cleanly attack the rising costs of the food stamp program.
Senate Democrats are expected to push to unify the two elements in conference, while many House Republicans are expected to keep up pressure to put the two issues on different timelines.
Food stamps and farm policy should be considered individually and on their own merits, Rep. Marlin Stutzman (R-Ind.) said on the floor today. Stutzman lost his post as an assistant GOP whip after bucking other leaders in his push to split the bill, even though the House now appears to be following his proposal.
It's just common sense, and it's exactly why we are here, he said. 
 Russell Berman contributed

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/323511-house-votes-to-cut-39-billion-from-food-stamp-program#ixzz2fpdRxauH 
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Both sides of the aisle should unite easily on this issue. Hopefully this is an unintended side effect of legislation and it needs correction immediately.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> This is how the Tea Party says thank you to our men and women who served and are serving this country and to their families who wait for them back home.
> 
> Thank You Tea Party.
> 
> ...


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Thank you. I do not. Perhaps there is something on it in Sonoma County. I'll check. Good idea. Deer eat everything, so I have a lot of cat mint, lavender, sage, oregano, rosemary for the bees. I'll check it out now.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MindyT said:


> Thank you. I do not. Perhaps there is something on it in Sonoma County. I'll check. Good idea. Deer eat everything, so I have a lot of cat mint, lavender, sage, oregano, rosemary for the bees. I'll check it out now.


Have you ever tried coyote urine to keep the deer away? you can spray it around the boundry of your garden and it really works!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Have you ever tried coyote urine to keep the deer away? you can spray it around the boundry of your garden and it really works!


I've heard that scent of human hair (collected and put in small mesh bags) repels deer--never tried it myself, though. No deer here, but the racoons are a big problem. They chase the neighborhood cats, topple the trash cans, deposit garbage on the balconies, rip shingles off the roof etc etc.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I've heard that scent of human hair (collected and put in small mesh bags) repels deer--never tried it myself, though. No deer here, but the racoons are a big problem. They chase the neighborhood cats, topple the trash cans, deposit garbage on the balconies, rip shingles off the roof etc etc.


The coyote urine works on racoons also. it comes in liquid, granules, and pellets.

let's send some to the republicans????????????


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

How's the weather in your neck of the woods, damemary? Good I hope. It's is lovely here. Warm during the day and cool at night and we open the windows and get a nice cross breeze. Your avatar is a bit disturbing. I know you are nothing like that creature. She was very different and not in a nice way.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ted Cruz is in his first year in the United States Senate, and this tea party Texan has wasted no time.

In less than a year, he has led an (unsuccessful) effort to derail the bipartisan immigration bill; he stopped the Senate from working on a budget compromise with the House; and now he is spearheading the government shutdown over Obamacare.

The tea party-driven House is out of control. But the Republicans in the Senate are on Cruz control.

And we need them to snap out of it, before the GOP shoves Americas economy over another cliff.

Tell them to turn off their Cruz control, stand up to the tea party, and stop threatening to shut down the government over Obamacare!

With the Senate's #1 and #2 Republicans up for re-election next fall -- Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who faces both a tea party primary and fellow Senator Rand Paul grading his every move, and Minority Whip John Cornyn -- they cannot afford to cross Ted Cruz.

Even Sarah Palin is wading into the debate, hinting that she will campaign for the primary opponents of any Republican who fails to put themselves into Cruz control.

By default, Ted Cruz seems to have become the de facto leader of Senate Republicans.

The centerpiece of the Cruz strategy is defunding Obamacare. Even though the Texas senator and all of his Senate and House colleagues have the best health insurance in America, Cruz and his defunders would deny that same opportunity to millions of uninsured Americans.

Cruz and the tea party say "defund it." But I say "defend it." Will you stand with me?

Tell them to turn off their Cruz control, stand up to the tea party, and stop threatening to shut down the government over Obamacare!

Let me give you five specific reasons why we need to do everything we can to keep Obamacare:

It prohibits insurance companies from denying coverage for children and adults with pre-existing conditions like asthma, diabetes, high blood pressure, or mental illness;
It allows families to keep their kids on their family policies until age 26;
It requires health insurance companies to spend at least 80% of their medical premium dollars on actual medical care rather than advertising or profit-taking;
It creates health insurance exchanges in every state where the uninsured will have choices for health insurance and tax breaks for low-income families to help pay the monthly premiums;
It gives seniors on Medicare free annual physicals and ends the out-of-pocket expenses they face for prescription drugs.
And Ted Cruz and the House Republicans want to end all these protections. Now it's time for you to be heard.

Decaffeinate the tea party. Sink the Cruz-er.

Dick Durbin
U.S. Senator

TAKE ACTION


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:-(


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

:hunf:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Any place that has dirt and sun I would be on/in it! Having my hands in the dirt is second only to holding a baby in therapy for me.  I have pictures of my first garden 36 years ago where my daughter, then 2, was sitting amongst the zucchini plants munching on a just picked zucchini.


I have pictures of the bigget garden my mother and I put in about 40 years ago. It's nice to know someone else has pictures, too. Mine have my cat and my mother avoiding the camera. Got one great shot of her tennis shoes...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah. That point is made. Good morning.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> How's the weather in your neck of the woods, damemary? Good I hope. It's is lovely here. Warm during the day and cool at night and we open the windows and get a nice cross breeze. Your avatar is a bit disturbing. I know you are nothing like that creature. She was very different and not in a nice way.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so embarrassed that he is favored by any.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> :-(


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Let's see...coyote urine. Actually we have coyotes roaming nearby. I love their 'singing' to one another in the night. I haven't tried the urine though. Good idea. I also use liquid fence. It's pretty good. Hair works. Get it from your local beauty parlor or barber shop. Ask them to stick it in a bag for you. I worked for Supercuts corporate hqs. In San Francisco and Marin for 15 years, and the shops used to do that for customers.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I know that some of you watch my heroine Rachel Maddow, PhD. 
Did you all see the piece that she did last night about those citizens born in Mexico being denied citizenship for decades because of some fictitious article in the Mexican Constitution? <smh>


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

jelun2 said:


> I know that some of you watch my heroine Rachel Maddow, PhD.
> Did you all see the piece that she did last night about those citizens born in Mexico being denied citizenship for decades because of some fictitious article in the Mexican Constitution? <smh>


Yes. Unreal!
I love Rachel, too, and wish I were half as bright as she. Of course, I have a steady diet with Ed Schultz, Rachel, and Lawrence.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

You haven't developed a taste yet for my pal, Chris of "All In"? He reminds me a bit of my nerdy SIL. LOL, soooo smart and analytical.



alcameron said:


> Yes. Unreal!
> I love Rachel, too, and wish I were half as bright as she. Of course, I have a steady diet with Ed Schultz, Rachel, and Lawrence.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes. Unreal!
> I love Rachel, too, and wish I were half as bright as she. Of course, I have a steady diet with Ed Schultz, Rachel, and Lawrence.


Me too, and I am glad Ed is on again everyday and if I miss Rachel at 8:00, I can watch her at 11:00. Lawrence is the one that first talked about the IRS changing the wording from exclusive to primarily in their rules, so all those groups got tax exempt status.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes. Unreal!
> I love Rachel, too, and wish I were half as bright as she. Of course, I have a steady diet with Ed Schultz, Rachel, and Lawrence.


I don't have enough time to watch them all, but sometimes I see Chris. I'm not big on Chris Matthews or Reverend Al.

Did I just quote my own reply??. Didn't mean to do that, but you got the message.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :-(


I'm sorry, but I can't believe Ted Cruz graduated from Harvard. I demand he show his diploma!


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