# What does the E mean?



## Schnauzermom (Feb 20, 2012)

I just got a Brother KH 836E. There was no manual with it and I have not been able to find one for that exact model. I found one for the 836 but no mention of the 836E. Does anyone know what the difference is if any?


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## dragonfly7673 (May 13, 2014)

I don't know much about knitting machines but I'm usually pretty good with google, but I've searched and searched... I can't find anything that says a difference between them. 

Perhaps the 836 manual will be close enough to get you started


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## MKEtc.com (Aug 14, 2013)

May be the 'eleganza' model which was no different - only made it blue to celebrate 20th? anniversary


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## dragonfly7673 (May 13, 2014)

MKEtc.com said:


> May be the 'eleganza' model which was no different - only made it blue to celebrate 20th? anniversary


I think you are right!

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-267279-1.html


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## KathMK (Jul 18, 2014)

I wonder if your Brother 836 has a lace carriage = you see there was a time that to reduce the costs of their machines they were shipped without lace carriages as some people did not want to knit lace.

The lace carriage could be bought as a separate accessory if the buyer found they wanted one later.

I think the E might have meant Economy as there was no lace carriage with it when originally sold.

I could be wrong of course.


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## Schnauzermom (Feb 20, 2012)

KathMK My machine did not have a lace carriage when I got it but there was a place in the case where one could have been. I couldn't tell if it had been removed or was never there. I think you have it right though. It also had "Ameno" after the numbers. I am going to go ahead and download the manual I found for the 836. I haven't had time to clean it or check the sponge bar yet. It is very clean but I'm sure it needs a sponge bar.
It will be awhile before I will be concerned about a lace carriage. I am still pretty new to MK but have the bug really bad. 
Thanks everyone for the info.


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## Angela c (Dec 12, 2013)

KathMK said:


> I wonder if your Brother 836 has a lace carriage = you see there was a time that to reduce the costs of their machines they were shipped without lace carriages as some people did not want to knit lace.
> 
> The lace carriage could be bought as a separate accessory if the buyer found they wanted one later.
> 
> ...


My 836 didn't come with a lace carriage and there's no mention of an E any were.


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## ladyleopard3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Elite


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## roseknit (Apr 2, 2011)

Usually E wrap, can,t think of anything else


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## roseknit (Apr 2, 2011)

Oh sorry, just the machine number


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## ladyleopard3 (Oct 17, 2012)

Sorry, "Eleganza", not Elite. I have the 892E. Just specially made that year in a different color, but mine is not blue.
Patty S


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

It is the exact same machine as the one without the name. Just a different color. They did that when they sent them to different countries or had a promotion so you can get the manual for the 836 and download it.


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## lburns93 (Feb 8, 2014)

I'm no expert but with sewing machines it denotes the place/country of manufacture. dunno. perhaps this is true of knitting machines too.


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

I meant without the letter
. I have around 25 machines and do know what it means.
My Brother 260 has an E as do other models.



euvid said:


> It is the exact same machine as the one without the name. Just a different color. They did that when they sent them to different countries or had a promotion so you can get the manual for the 836 and download it.


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## ACR1 (Oct 3, 2012)

KathMK said:


> I wonder if your Brother 836 has a lace carriage = you see there was a time that to reduce the costs of their machines they were shipped without lace carriages as some people did not want to knit lace.
> 
> The lace carriage could be bought as a separate accessory if the buyer found they wanted one later.
> 
> I think the E might have meant Economy as there was no lace carriage with it when originally sold.


I believe the KH836 was the version with the lace carriage included. The one without was the KH830. The same lace carriage fits both. I have no idea what the "E" might have stood for. You'll have to tell us when you find out!


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## randiejg (Oct 29, 2011)

It is definitely the "Eleganza" model produced in a different color for the anniversary year. No other differences from the regular model of the same number.

Not Elite, not Economy.


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## MostlyKnittingMachines (Jan 30, 2014)

The Brother KH830 was sold with a lace carriage and rails as standard.

The KH836 (which was introduced several years later, after the KH840 and KH860 machines) was sold without the lace carriage, rails and lace cams. They were sold separately as a Lace Set, which could be added later if the knitter wanted them. This made the initial cost of the knitting machine more affordable and, of course, some knitters never wanted to knit lace patterns any way. In fact most of the used knitting machines I have had over the years have had lace carriages that look like they have never been used!

The KH836 and KH836E (Eleganza) will be the same model, just different colours, as has already been said in previous replies. So the KH836 User Manual that you have will be the correct one for your KH836E.


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## Schnauzermom (Feb 20, 2012)

I really appreciate the great information. I went ahead and downloaded the manual for the 836 that I found online. so now I have to get to work on getting it ready to go. Can't wait to be able to knit something on it. I'm behind on baby gifts. I just finished a baby blanket using the swirl pattern and instructions on You Tube by Dianna Sullivan on my KX350 Brother machine. That was pretty fun.


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

The 836 was made a long time after the 830 and didn't come with a lace carriage to keep the price down. 

Machines with a E were manufactured as specials for an anniversary, but they were no different apart from the colour


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## KathMK (Jul 18, 2014)

The way the Brother knits lace was the reason I chose the Brother KH820 my first punchcard machine. Up to then I had used a Knitmaster 305 which did patterning with three knobs that you turned to tell the machine what needles over a span of every 8 needles. Knitmasters were sold as Knitkings as well as other names.

My friend had a old Jones/Brother KH588 which was known as the Lacemaker.

When you get a lace carriage - or borrow one - there are two models. One does just what they call True Lace. The Brother Lace carriage merely transfers the sts on selected needles on to the next needle in the direction the carriage is moving. 

Your knit carriage does ALL the knitting. The lace carriage merely selects the needles and transfers stitches chose by the punch card, mylar sheet or electronic wizardry of the newer electronic models.

The original Lace carriage was then updated in order to do two types of lace - you used a switch on the top of the lace carriage to choose the type you wanted.

The second type of lace was called Fine Lace. 

In True Lace what happens is the Lace carriage slides across the bed of needles and first row of the individual selected needles come out. As the lace carriage moves back to the left hand side of the bed all stitches on those needles are transferred leftwards on to the next needle in line while you are moving the lace carriage to the left. If any needles come out as the lace carriages moves to the left - you then continue with the lace carriage and move it back to the right - stitches on the selected needles move rightwards on to the next needle. You continue moving the lace carriage in either direction till at last the carriage is on the left with no new needles selected. You then move the knit carriage and knit two rows with yarn. The empty needles pick up the yarn and the second row knits the loops hanging on the previously empty needles thus leaving a hole like a Yarn Over a needle in hand lace knitting.

Then you move the lace carriage to the right again and back to left and so on till again the carriage is on the left hand side of the bed with no needles selected at all.

If the Lace carriage is set for Fine Lace - the selected stitches are moved to the next needle towards the left (or the right) BUT one side of the transferred stitch remains on the original needle.

This meant a strand or yarn would lie across the hole that would have been formed if the carriage had been set for true lace. 

This was ideal knitted on a slightly looser tension as fabric was made that was lace but was not as transparent.

Knitted with a slightly hairy yarn it could make wonderful stoles and shawls.

The Knitmaster machine knitted a form of lace called Punch Lace on standard carriage without their additional and expensive Lace carriage that knitted and transferred stitches.

Punch lace was knitted with two different yarns threaded in the standard punch card knit carriage. You could use punchcards similarly punched like fairisle cards - the finest (thinnest) knitted on ALL the needles and the thicker yarn knitted the background stitches only stranding across the areas where the thin yarn knitted alone. 

Actually this punch lace could be very effective and you could even - if you wanted to - used nylon transparent thread as the thinner yarn but in garments it could be dodgy if hot cigarette ash was being dropped nearby or you used a warm or hot iron on the fabric without thinking. 

I saw many stoles and party garments using a lurex thread as the second yarn chosen.

Unfortunately the Brother punch card machines could not do the punch lace. I decided to stay with the Brother machines and their true lace and bought the updated lace carriage in order to be able to do the fine lace.


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## Gweneth 1946 (May 20, 2012)

Google is a big help. You have to be patient. The trick is to ask the right question which can be a challenge but as you work through the questions you will see what others are doing and you will eventually figure it out. The "E" is for error but what error are they talking about??


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