# Obamacare #9



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No. The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy. THEY are responsible for themselves. Others can create wealth for themselves if they choose.


This is too illogical even for you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No. I do not read messages because they are abusive.


I believe I was speaking about LTL, not LL. You often read messages that aren't abusive and follow them with snide comments, which is a form of abuse.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> LOL -- and you MIGHT get corrected on your improper phrasing: "I could care less."
> 
> Or not. Depending on how hypocritical some people are feeling.


I could care less what imperfect people think of my spelling and grammar.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You also need to realize that American's don't want to pay the higher prices for goods made in America. They want everything to be as cheap as possible, we have grown accustomed to that. This new mindset is a very real reason why manufacturing in America is having a hard time restarting. A good case can be made against this reasoning, at the same time, it seems to be a hindrance to manufacturing goods here.


Of course we want our goods to be cheap and plentiful--it's a sacrifice to pay a little more for a toy, a can opener, or a vacuum that was produced here instead of overseas. But it something we all can do, or at least try.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Double post


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Since the subject of racism has been raised again, here's an excerpt of an article I encountered a few days ago that I thought was simply splendid. I know that some here will find it equally laudable and some here, not so much (if they even understand a word of it).
> 
> Enjoy:


Thank you so much, Knitry. 
I can see that the piece has tremendous value. 
I also know that it just won't stick right now. I have it saved offsite. I am not sure if it was his blog or another that I read last week about the same issue.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Absolutely, because part of what makes it so sinister is the implied _continuing_ threat. Always something that can be dangled over your head.


Explain that to solow, would you?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Her implying that KPG and LTL are behind her name change.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I could care less what imperfect people think of my spelling and grammar.


Since you're so perfect?? Love it. Stay classy, Solo.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, CEO's are not blood suckers. They have done a lot of work: being highly educated takes work, making the right decisions for the company to make money takes work. CEO's work, work, work. Not nine to five. If a CEO does not perform - pfffttt - he's gone. So he has to work knowing his risks.


But long before he's gone, he's gotten an iron-clad contract that gives him many millions of dollars in severance, a whole lot of stock, insurance for him and his family for the rest of their lives, you know, the stuff you're going to get when you're fired.

The contract is signed long before the idiot has driven the company into the ground, and they invariably live up to it. But the company can't afford an additional $2/hr for its workers.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Explain that to solow, would you?


Oh hell no.

Sorry -- I'd gladly do most things you asked, but that would be both a waste of my time and pointless. She doesn't/can't/wouldn't/won't get it -- accidentally or on purpose. LOL.

But really, the bottom line for me is that she doesn't deserve an explanation. But it wouldn't stick anyway. So, like I said: waste of time, pointless.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Money is made other than the stock market. People who get rich by investing other's money have the responsibility of producing. If they don't - forget it - they are gone. There is responsibility there.


But first they collect a commission whether their client make money or lose it.

Banks have gotten rich by investing others' money - recently in mortgage-related derivatives. The others lost their money, but the banks came out whole.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> I could care less what imperfect people think of my spelling and grammar.


Well, that's usually the difference between better educated people and others. Having access to quality educational systems is first and foremost, but if people haven't developed intellectual curiosity and care about learning, ... well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

And I am CERTAINLY imperfect with my spelling and grammar. But when mistakes are pointed out to me, I DO care and I try to learn from it. Because I do care.

It's part of that work ethic. Intellectual laziness is as bad as, if not worse than, physical laziness, IMO.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh hell no.
> 
> Sorry -- I'd gladly do most things you asked, but that would be both a waste of my time and pointless. She doesn't/can't/wouldn't/won't get it -- accidentally or on purpose. LOL.
> 
> But really, the bottom line for me is that she doesn't deserve an explanation. But it wouldn't stick anyway. So, like I said: waste of time, pointless.


LOL, where are VocalLisa's emoters when I need them?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

More West Virginia news. This has affected me deeply, I'm afriad, so ya'll will get a few more posts on the subject, as things come to my attention. I'll not be offended if you just skip them.

First, someone posted a short video with someone from the company involved:



> Watched this live here in Charleston
> 
> His full conference was a half-assed apology, followed by this attempt to leave after just minutes.
> 
> ...


Might as well go ahead and tack this on here:



> *The 6 Most Terrifying Facts About the Chemical Spill Contaminating West Virginias Drinking Water
> 1. No one knows when water will be safe to drink again.
> *
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Life just isn't fair, is it? How many people actually inherit a multi-million dollar company? That's why it is important what choices people make. One can chose to become successful and take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals or chose to stay where one is and stagnate, always depending on someone else to do the hard part for them. It is not written anywhere that life will be easy. Part of the journey to success is getting there. This journey has allowed America to become the great country it is and why immigrants wanted to come here. Success equals hard work. Even the rich have to work to stay successful. (Disclaimer, this doesn't apply to 100% of the population.)


What percentage does it apply to?

Success sometimes depends on hard work and sometimes on dumb luck. And that's for ethical people. If you're not bothered by a little ethical lapse, you can be "successful" without having it take up too much of your time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I've been aware of this for a while now -- it's almost too grotesque for me to be _able_ to pay any attention to it. But IMO it most certainly takes the arguments of the anti-abortion crowd to their logical conclusion: women as mere incubators. Doesn't even matter whether they're alive or not, so it's really only women's BODIES as incubators. If science came up with a way to incubate babies from conception right on through, and a way to make blow-up dolls a little more lifelike -- and it's said robots may perform those particular, er, relevant functions in the not too distant future -- women could be erased from the earth and a large swath of the population would celebrate.


I'm not sure how I feel about this one, to be honest. Although I believe abortion is personally wrong for me I can't make that choice for other women--and in this case we can't be absolutely sure what the comatose women would have wanted. Even though she told her husband and parents at least once that she didn't want to be put on life support, she might have felt differently after becoming pregnant. And the baby is so close to viability now--the thought of it slowly suffocating in the womb when the plug is pulled is pretty horrific...the thought of the mother going into labor and giving birth in the act of dying still worse.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> These smilies seem apropos:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I love these. I'd better bookmark this msg. so I can find it again. But there was a raspberry on here, and I thought it came from you. Nuts, back to the archives.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> For crying out loud? You honestly have to ask that?
> Take a peek at Forbes, at any number of business magazines...why do you suppose that there are references to the 1% to the 1/10th of 1%?
> And no, life is not fair. Nobody is looking for a level playing field, we are seeking the chance to avoid complete calamity.
> Until more of the uber affluent start acting like true philanthropists we can never know what day and date the society we have structured will explode into violence.
> ...


They're not coming after me either, honey. I earned what I have and consider myself successful in that regard. I am a far cry from being a 1% 'er. There are all levels of success and being uber rich was not part of my plan. I just think that taking from the 1% what this administration wants to take, although they never defined exactly how much they want to take, is stealing. The gov't is also stealing from the MC and consequently causing its demise. I agree that we are in for some terrible times if this government doesn't get its act together and get the country back on track.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If you're not bothered by a little ethical lapse, you can be "successful" without having it take up too much of your time.


Just ask Chris Christie. 



> *Why wasn't Christie dismissed in the great US Attorney purge of '06? Because he did what he was told
> Christie Showed His Stripes *http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024314997 <<-- more examples posted in thread too
> by BooMan
> Sat Jan 11th, 2014 at 08:28:51 AM EST
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> They're not coming after me either, honey. I earned what I have and consider myself successful in that regard. I am a far cry from being a 1% 'er. There are all levels of success and being uber rich was not part of my plan. I just think that taking from the 1% what this administration wants to take, although they never defined exactly how much they want to take, is stealing. The gov't is also stealing from the MC and consequently causing its demise. I agree that we are in for some terrible times if this government doesn't get its act together and get the country back on track.


Quite honestly, it has nothing to do with the government.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Mail call, Empress.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I could care less what imperfect people think of my spelling and grammar.


Even KPG? Oh, you said imperfect.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Boy, the point of the story went right over your head.
> 
> Whether the clerk recognized her as OPRAH or not _has nothing to do with it_. The issue was that the clerk recognized her as BLACK and has an assumption based on that.
> 
> And it's not "all's well that ends well". The point is that thousands if not millions of black people deal with that BS all the time. If you're not recognized "as Oprah", then you're just gonna be treated the way that clerk happened to treat Oprah on that particular day -- dismissed, demeaned and treated as unworthy and disrespectfully. So, maybe "all's well that ends well" for people who have their heads stuck up their clammy white behinds, but for anyone who cares about decency and fairness, no, it doesn't "end well" at all.


I didn't miss the point at all Cheeky. Not everyone automatically thinks that black people are poor and cannot afford "nice" things. Although you and your friends certainly fall into that category. You are making assumptions about the clerk without knowing anything about her, other than she didn't know who Oprah is. But because Oprah is black the whole situation expanded. Then again, the story came from Oprah in an interview months after the incident. That in and of itself is quite telling. Yes, there are sales clerks out there that have the attitude that if you have to ask the price, then you can't afford the product.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Most people who use their brains and take financial risks are making money by getting it away from other people. That's how the stock market works: it adds *nothing* to the economy but is just a way of taking money from one person's pockets and stuffing it into another's.
> 
> If the people you speak of created new systems, new types of businesses, new cures or inventions, they deserve a good return, and at the same time they would be creating jobs and sharing their wealth. But people who get rich by investing other people's money, no matter how many hours a week they work, are thieves, no more, no less. If you haven't seen _Wall Street_, today might be a good day to get it off Netflix.


Again, I believe that you really you have no knowledge about finance. That the only thing you are a success at is having class envy aka jealous of other people's success.

If I had $1000 and invested in the infant company "Xerox" and made a million dollars off of that investment, who did I take money from? Who did I steal money from? Who was cheated? If Xerox never took off and became a huge corporation and put millions of people to work, I would have lost the money at no others loss other than my own.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, that's usually the difference between better educated people and others. Having access to quality educational systems is first and foremost, but if people haven't developed intellectual curiosity and care about learning, ... well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
> 
> And I am CERTAINLY imperfect with my spelling and grammar. But when mistakes are pointed out to me, I DO care and I try to learn from it. Because I do care.
> 
> It's part of that work ethic. Intellectual laziness is as bad as, if not worse than, physical laziness, IMO.


I used to work with a guy who would say "you can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think." It was really funny the first 3 or 4 times, not so much after that.

As for the rest, :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I would accept that. At any rate, I would like to believe you, if you had ever said anything negative about the Confederate flag being waved in his face or the Facebook pages that call for lynching him. But you don't even see those; you cover your eyes and shout loudly so the sounds don't get to you.


Sorry never saw that photo. Don't have the time or interest to be on facebook, so don't know about those things. That is not covering my eyes, it is I have more important things to do than find and obsess over evil.

No president should be that disrespected.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again, I believe that you really you have no knowledge about finance. That the only thing you are a success at is having class envy aka jealous of other people's success.
> 
> If I had $1000 and invested in the infant company "Xerox" and made a million dollars off of that investment, who did I take money from? Who did I steal money from? Who was cheated? If Xerox never took off and became a huge corporation and put millions of people to work, I would have lost the money at no others loss other than my own.


Xerox was an invention that added a huge amount to the economy. Anyone who invested in that was being prudent and deserved what they made from it. It was a true investment, which the company was able to use for capital expenses.

You not only missed what I meant; you missed what I wrote. As for your first paragraph, blah blah blah.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sorry never saw that photo. Don't have the time or interest to be on facebook, so don't know about those things. That is not covering my eyes, it is I have more important things to do than find and obsess over evil.
> 
> No president should be that disrespected.


Thank you for saying that now, several weeks after the fact.

I didn't see the picture either, but I did see what was written about it (not on Facebook at all).


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for saying that now, several weeks after the fact.
> 
> I didn't see the picture either, but I did see what was written about it (not on Facebook at all).


If I didn't see the picture of see what was written about it, how could I comment? You assume that I find you interesting enough to read everything you or your cultists friends write when on one of your ranting tirades. Talk about Blah blah blah.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I found it, but there was no capital C:
> 
> Jan 9, 14 19:00:17
> lovethelake
> ...


See I told you so, just a typo. Or maybe karma


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Again, I believe that you really you have no knowledge about finance. That the only thing you are a success at is having class envy aka jealous of other people's success.
> 
> If I had $1000 and invested in the infant company "Xerox" and made a million dollars off of that investment, who did I take money from? Who did I steal money from? Who was cheated? If Xerox never took off and became a huge corporation and put millions of people to work, I would have lost the money at no others loss other than my own.


This quote is especially fitting for Poor Purl (who chose an appropriate name AND a self-fulfilling prophecy!) and the other Liberals on this thread who have proven again and again they have no understanding of financial or business matters. They *all* have class envy (and no wealth apparently):

_Envy is an insult to oneself._
Yevgeny Yevtushenko


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> This quote is especially fitting for Poor Purl (who chose an appropriate name AND a self-fulfilling prophecy!) and the other Liberals on this thread who have proven again and again they have no understanding of financial or business matters. They *all* have class envy (and no wealth apparently):
> 
> _Envy is an insult to oneself._
> Yevgeny Yevtushenko


Still making assumptions about people . . . .


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I didn't miss the point at all Cheeky. *Not everyone automatically thinks that black people are poor and cannot afford "nice" things. *[/quote[
> 
> No, but the ones who do who are clerks in expensive boutiques are prone to deny customers a chance to finger the expensive merchandise.
> 
> ...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I used to work with a guy who would say "you can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think." It was really funny the first 3 or 4 times, not so much after that.


Maybe not so much (for some of us) the first time either.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Maybe not so much (for some of us) the first time either.


Mmmm, there have been some very "cultured" whores. 
There are a great many people who have picked their partners for the affluence it would bring them; it happened with royalty all the time. Parents pimped their children out for money and power.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> The thing is what risk are we talking about that is different from the folks at the banks who are willing to pay out billions in profits in order to continue to playing these investment scams.
> 
> If the banks can spend all that money to cover their heinies for past actions, why can't businesses risk some of that money while they are able to borrow for nothing and invest in this nation?


I'm only quoting part of what you said, and I think you make a good point. Banks and businesses HAVE to take some risk for the sake of our country's economy. I think they don't because greed is even more naked and entrenched in the financial and big business sectors of the economy than any other time in the past. I also think greed has bulldozed patriotism in those same sectors of the economy.

When the economy tanked so impressively, we discovered we were all in the same boat, on the same ocean, and that isn't something that will ever change. Remember all those big bailouts? They helped keep the boat afloat. The financial and big business sectors of the economy need to practice "Patriotic Economics" to get and keep our one and only boat in good repair.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure how I feel about this one, to be honest. Although I believe abortion is personally wrong for me I can't make that choice for other women--and in this case we can't be absolutely sure what the comatose women would have wanted. Even though she told her husband and parents at least once that she didn't want to be put on life support, she might have felt differently after becoming pregnant. And the baby is so close to viability now--the thought of it slowly suffocating in the womb when the plug is pulled is pretty horrific...the thought of the mother going into labor and giving birth in the act of dying still worse.


We all know what viability means for a child who has possibly already been deprived of oxygen for up to an hour, though. It means being brought into the world with mulitple needs, physical and intellectual, with a father who has another child under 18 months to care for already. 
So we can start another 2 children on a round of subsistence living. The man is a paramedic, they don't make much money, they work terrible hours... honestly, I don't see that she needed a written statement. He and her parents say she wouldn't have wanted this. Talk about they have suffered enough...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I never claimed that anyone MADE me change my user name. I changed my user name to take my power back.
> It is really sad that you don't have enough capability for introspection or intelligence to be able to relate to that.
> You are the one who claims to have been a teacher, right?
> I thank God my children were not your students.


Don't bother with anyone who thinks you HAD to change your user name. I changed my user name because I felt like it. Admin was very helpful. I made absolutely no secret about choosing a new user name, did it in a way that left all my posts as SeattleSoul accessible under my new user name and still got slammed for making the change. It seems we're not allowed to call ourselves what we want to. Seems pretty weird to me...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm only quoting part of what you said, and I think you make a good point. Banks and businesses HAVE to take some risk for the sake of our country's economy. I think they don't because greed is even more naked and entrenched in the financial and big business sectors of the economy than any other time in the past. I also think greed has bulldozed patriotism in those same sectors of the economy.
> 
> When the economy tanked so impressively, we discovered we were all in the same boat, on the same ocean, and that isn't something that will ever change. Remember all those big bailouts? They helped keep the boat afloat. The financial and big business sectors of the economy need to practice "Patriotic Economics" to get and keep our one and only boat in good repair.


There is some risk and then there is illegal activity and floating money around in order to make money on moving money whether it is necessary or not. 
That wasn't really my point, though, MIB, my point was that if bankers can take risks so can people involved in other businesses, that is what our associates from the right SAY they do; they are not taking risk, though, they are letting their money sit around with the Fed holding it for them without a fee.When they want to play with it they take some and invest it and then let the Fed sit on it again. 
All the while millions of people who could benefit (as they will) from their risk taking are hurt.

I do agree, however, that the investment folks need to help the economy recover just as the others do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Uh, I'm pretty sure she didn't ask the price, just the chance to see it.
> 
> There's no mistaking the racism, unless you're trying to "disappear" (dismiss, deny and trivialize) it -- which is another manifestation of racism.


I feel as if I have spent the most of the day on a river in Egypt.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> I agree with everything you've had to say. Unfortunatly, right now it's the haves, & the have nots...(not the show) And what the Haves don't realize, is things cannot continue to go on the way they have. The Have nots, can't take it forever. The crevasse between the two will become so great, that there may well be a war between the two. Eventually the Have nots will no longer have ANYTHING, literally, left to loose. It will be fight or starve. That will be the time that the Haves will realize that all that paper money they have is worthless. And the rest of what they have will be forceably taken from them. This type of thing has happened many times in the history of the world and it's inhabitants.
> I personally wold like to avoid that outcome. But I don't see the Haves showing any sign that the problem even exisits. So IMO, that is where the world, and this country stands right now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I believe I was speaking about LTL, not LL. You often read messages that aren't abusive and follow them with snide comments, which is a form of abuse.


Well, heck, Empress of the Tower, I thank you for finding that post. I can't track down your post saying that you found it. 
It really didn't seem to me that it was that late during the day, but whatever. As far as I am concerned it is over.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wrong. If KPG truly has some or all of our names then it seems more than likely that there's been a security breach--and we have the right to know. I'm going to contact Admin and find out what the heck is going on.


I think this is something anyone who participates in this topic should do. KPG may be blowing smoke to see what reaction she gets by saying she has other KPers private information, but if she actually does have private information about any of us, including her friends, she needs to be dealt with, quickly and severely.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How can we use these? dumb question, but I'm willing to risk my aplomb.



Poor Purl said:


> I love these. I'd better bookmark this msg. so I can find it again. But there was a raspberry on here, and I thought it came from you. Nuts, back to the archives.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think this is something anyone who participates I this topic should do. KPG may be blowing smoke to see what reaction she gets by saying she has other KPers private information, but if she actually does have private information about any of us, including her friends, she needs to be dealt with, quickly and severely.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A curtsy to you Grand Empress.



Janet Cooke said:


> Mail call, Empress.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If I didn't see the picture of see what was written about it, how could I comment? You assume that I find you interesting enough to read everything you or your cultists friends write when on one of your ranting tirades. Talk about Blah blah blah.


Actually, I know you're not interested in anything I write, as several people have demonstrated in answers written to questions you asked, which you obviously ignored.

I was referring to the first part of the message you answered, asking why you didn't object when the Confederate flag was waved in his face. If there were no racism toward him, why did nobody ever do that to any other (white) president? You once did comment on that, to tell us all how meaningful the Confederate flag was and how northerners didn't understand or some such ass-covering nonsense. No president should have had to put up with that, either, but it sure didn't bother you. That's what my "a few weeks late" or whatever referred to.

Okay, I know this message has gone way beyond your attention span, but I would love to see what of mine you regard as a "ranting tirade."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I used to work with a guy who would say "you can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think." It was really funny the first 3 or 4 times, not so much after that.
> 
> As for the rest, :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: The horticulture remark should only come from a woman IMHO....but it's pretty good.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> See I told you so, just a typo. Or maybe karma


It still looks strange for a typo; certainly not typed in by accident when you wanted to hit enter.

Heavens to Betsy! Do Catholics believe in karma?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> We all know what viability means for a child who has possibly already been deprived of oxygen for up to an hour, though. It means being brought into the world with mulitple needs, physical and intellectual, with a father who has another child under 18 months to care for already.
> So we can start another 2 children on a round of subsistence living. The man is a paramedic, they don't make much money, they work terrible hours... honestly, I don't see that she needed a written statement. He and her parents say she wouldn't have wanted this. Talk about they have suffered enough...


I agree Janet. A decision up to the family and their physician.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree Janet. A decision up to the family and their physician.


Yanno, they may have done me a favor, I like seeing that "Janet".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Still making assumptions about people . . . .


She assumes the "Poor" in "Poor Purl" refers to financial poverty (and thinks she's insulted me by implying that). I wonder whether she thinks the "Loves" in Lovesthelake refers to erotic love.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Uh, I'm pretty sure she didn't ask the price, just the chance to see it.
> 
> There's no mistaking the racism, unless you're trying to "disappear" (dismiss, deny and trivialize) it -- which is another manifestation of racism.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I AGREE 100%. How can we research it? I know she has outed my hometown, supposedly from thousands of old posts.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I think this is something anyone who participates I this topic should do. KPG may be blowing smoke to see what reaction she gets by saying she has other KPers private information, but if she actually does have private information about any of us, including her friends, she needs to be dealt with, quickly and severely.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not all job creators have yachts to sit back and relax on, count their money and see it safely into off shore accounts. Mom and Pop shops generally don't qualify with that bunch. Instead, they have been counting their pennies, deciding if they can afford to keep employees, keep health insurance or expand their businesses. Many of these job creators are in a state of limbo now because of this administration's policies.


Well then, the Mom & Pop shops will have to put themselves in with the, Have nots, or they will never make it either. Their money is also overseas with the big CEO's.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm only quoting part of what you said, and I think you make a good point. Banks and businesses HAVE to take some risk for the sake of our country's economy. I think they don't because greed is even more naked and entrenched in the financial and big business sectors of the economy than any other time in the past. I also think greed has bulldozed patriotism in those same sectors of the economy.
> 
> When the economy tanked so impressively, we discovered we were all in the same boat, on the same ocean, and that isn't something that will ever change. Remember all those big bailouts? They helped keep the boat afloat. The financial and big business sectors of the economy need to practice "Patriotic Economics" to get and keep our one and only boat in good repair.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She assumes the "Poor" in "Poor Purl" refers to financial poverty (and thinks she's insulted me by implying that). I wonder whether she thinks the "Loves" in Lovesthelake refers to erotic love.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Poor Purl does it again! How does that woman do it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I feel as if I have spent the most of the day on a river in Egypt.


HAAHAHAHAAH.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

damemary said:


> I AGREE 100%. How can we research it? I know she has outed my hometown, supposedly from thousands of old posts.


I would love to know too. How would we find out?


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She assumes the "Poor" in "Poor Purl" refers to financial poverty (and thinks she's insulted me by implying that). I wonder whether she thinks the "Loves" in Lovesthelake refers to erotic love.


I nearly spit out what was in my mouth on the computer screen!

:XD: :lol:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There is some risk and then there is illegal activity and floating money around in order to make money on moving money whether it is necessary or not.
> That wasn't really my point, though, MIB, my point was that if bankers can take risks so can people involved in other businesses, that is what our associates from the right SAY they do; they are not taking risk, though, they are letting their money sit around with the Fed holding it for them without a fee.When they want to play with it they take some and invest it and then let the Fed sit on it again.
> All the while millions of people who could benefit (as they will) from their risk taking are hurt.
> 
> I do agree, however, that the investment folks need to help the economy recover just as the others do.


Again with the class envy. It is their money and they can choose to do with it as they choose. My guess is that because of Obama created a nation of regulation it is not profitable to invest money, because if it could be profitable they would do it. Too many new regulations, too many new taxes, Obamacare.......... There is no way I would encourage anyone to do a start up. The bad economy, taxes, regulations, paperwork just does not seem worth it Bet many also think that way.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Sorry never saw that photo. Don't have the time or interest to be on facebook, so don't know about those things. That is not covering my eyes, it is I have more important things to do than find and obsess over evil.
> 
> No president should be that disrespected.


No, it's "No President should be shown that degree of disrespect." "Disrespected" is not a verb, it is a colloquialism.

And, let's all remember that you have said, right here in public, that our current President should be spared certain kinds of disrespect. President Obama is the POTUS and therefore should not be shown a certain degree of disrespect such as having the Confederate flag waved in his face.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I AGREE 100%. How can we research it? I know she has outed my hometown, supposedly from thousands of old posts.


I am something of a technological Neanderthal, so I don't know how to figure out how KPG might have accessed anyone's private information. We need a researcher who knows about hacking. We also need to contact Admin and bring the matter to its attention. I can't imagine any scenario in which the Administrator of this site would tolerate a hacker. If KPG is just trying to get a rise out of some people, that's not acceptable either because she is using a threat that is far too serious to overlook.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> How can we use these? dumb question, but I'm willing to risk my aplomb.


This is my 4th attempt, and I'm about to give up:










Hey, it worked. I had to go to Lisa's message, hit quote reply, and the codes for her smilies showed up. I highlighted one and copied it, then pasted it here, and voila!

My problem is that though I bookmarked the page Lisa's message was on, when I tried to reach it via bookmarks I was sent to the first page of this thread, not the 98th, as I needed.

The point is, if you want to say blah blah, you can show it instead.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I AGREE 100%. How can we research it? I know she has outed my hometown, supposedly from thousands of old posts.


I am not sure that it is even worth it, My Empress, it would be a lot of work and duplication of effort, for what?
LOL, can you just see some warm summer eve as the breeze begins to kick up a wild eyed woman in a frenzy running through the streets calling DAMEMARY! DAMEMARY! I know you are hiding that evil Janet Cooke here somewhere! I insist on taking her to my sweatshop to make whatever product I can't sell at the craft fair in Wilmington in 2014, just like I couldn't in 2013.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Again with the class envy. It is their money and they can choose to do with it as they choose. My guess is that because of Obama created a nation of regulation it is not profitable to invest money, because if it could be profitable they would do it. Too many new regulations, too many new taxes, Obamacare.......... There is no way I would encourage anyone to do a start up. The bad economy, taxes, regulations, paperwork just does not seem worth it Bet many also think that way.


I do and so do all _those_ I know who create wealth. :thumbup: There is 'that' word again the Libs have such a hard time understanding. They can guess how many I'm talking about now. :XD: I'm secure in the fact that you'll understand LTL. :-D


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not sure that it is even worth it, My Empress, it would be a lot of work and duplication of effort, for what?
> LOL, can you just see some warm summer eve as the breeze begins to kick up a wild eyed woman in a frenzy running through the streets calling DAMEMARY! DAMEMARY! I know you are hiding that evil Janet Cooke here somewhere! I insist on taking her to my sweatshop to make whatever product I can't sell at the craft fair in Wilmington in 2014, just like I couldn't in 2013.


Thanks for the image. I have a headache today and you made me laugh!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do and so do all _those_ I know who create wealth. :thumbup: There is 'that' word again the Libs have such a hard time understanding. They can guess how many I'm talking about now. :XD: I'm secure in the fact that you'll understand LTL. :-D


Gee, I sense that you equate success with "making wealth."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This is fun:


















And last, but not least,


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Actually, I know you're not interested in anything I write, as several people have demonstrated in answers written to questions you asked, which you obviously ignored.
> 
> I was referring to the first part of the message you answered, asking why you didn't object when the Confederate flag was waved in his face. If there were no racism toward him, why did nobody ever do that to any other (white) president? You once did comment on that, to tell us all how meaningful the Confederate flag was and how northerners didn't understand or some such ass-covering nonsense. No president should have had to put up with that, either, but it sure didn't bother you. That's what my "a few weeks late" or whatever referred to.
> 
> Okay, I know this message has gone way beyond your attention span, but I would love to see what of mine you regard as a "ranting tirade."


Who knows why individual idiots do stupid things. Of course I do no approve of that behavior. But to continue to talk about such horrific behavior only gives the person that did it more time in the limelight. And hate to say it but it is their right to do so. Maybe they did it to rile people up, nothing more nothing less for kicks. But to assume that because not everyone chose to reflect on the incident shows a better use of their time, and does not make them racists.

But you make it impossible to consider you a civil person to discuss anything with. Just because I do not answer your question, it is probably because I think you are baiting me or I do not want to answer because it does not interest me. But I do find it interesting that your ego can't handle someone not answering what you believe is earthshattering.

Also I would suggest not being so snippy at the end of your posts; because personally I tend to ignore such childish behavior.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Who knows why individual idiots do stupid things. Of course I do no approve of that behavior. But to continue to talk about such horrific behavior only gives the person that did it more time in the limelight. And hate to say it but it is their right to do so. Maybe they did it to rile people up, nothing more nothing less for kicks. But to assume that because not everyone chose to reflect on the incident shows a better use of their time, and does not make them racists.
> 
> But you make it impossible to consider you a civil person to discuss anything with. Just because I do not answer your question, it is probably because I think you are baiting me or I do not want to answer because it does not interest me. But I do find it interesting that your ego can't handle someone not answering what you believe is earthshattering.
> 
> Also I would suggest not being so snippy at the end of your posts; because personally I tend to ignore such childish behavior.


Ignore childish behavior? You display it!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well then, the Mom & Pop shops will have to put themselves in with the, Have nots, or they will never make it either. Their money is also overseas with the big CEO's.


That's where the Mom and Pop shops have been put. They are just another class of people to be exploited, instead of getting the respect they deserve for taking very serious risks. As a former small business owner, I know what some of the risks are, and they boil down to walking a tightrope without a net. Someone will probably say that a successful Mom and Pop shop automatically has a safety net, but they would be wrong.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Life just isn't fair, is it? How many people actually inherit a multi-million dollar company? That's why it is important what choices people make. One can chose to become successful and take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals or chose to stay where one is and stagnate, always depending on someone else to do the hard part for them. It is not written anywhere that life will be easy. Part of the journey to success is getting there. This journey has allowed America to become the great country it is and why immigrants wanted to come here. Success equals hard work. Even the rich have to work to stay successful. (Disclaimer, this doesn't apply to 100% of the population.)


If that hypothesis were true, wouldn't there be an equal amout of rich & poor? When one CEO makes billions of dollars a year, for literlly doing nothing but sit on his yacht, where are the other hard working, rich wannabe's, going to get their millions? Do you now see the problem? There is nothing but corruption in the big business world. It's all back to the Master's & the Slaves. And I don't mean that in an ethnic connotation. The rich (masters) will control the poor (slaves). When you're starving to death, you'll jump through hoops for those rich who are waving that scrap of food over your head. It's like that already. That's why the mimimum wage isn't going up. That yacht sitting CEO can't bare to loose a single billion from his pocket.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: The horticulture remark should only come from a woman IMHO....but it's pretty good.


This was a gay ex-Navy man (he wasn't ex because he was gay), so that's as good as a woman, no?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is fun:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Plebian to the end!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I nearly spit out what was in my mouth on the computer screen!
> 
> :XD: :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Who knows why individual idiots do stupid things. Of course I do no approve of that behavior. But to continue to talk about such horrific behavior only gives the person that did it more time in the limelight. And hate to say it but it is their right to do so. Maybe they did it to rile people up, nothing more nothing less for kicks. But to assume that because not everyone chose to reflect on the incident shows a better use of their time, and does not make them racists.
> 
> But you make it impossible to consider you a civil person to discuss anything with. Just because I do not answer your question, it is probably because I think you are baiting me or I do not want to answer because it does not interest me. But I do find it interesting that your ego can't handle someone not answering what you believe is earthshattering.
> 
> Also I would suggest not being so snippy at the end of your posts; because personally I tend to ignore such childish behavior.


Watch out, Empress Poor Purl. LTL has just told you not to get "uppity".


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again with the class envy. It is their money and they can choose to do with it as they choose. My guess is that because of Obama created a nation of regulation it is not profitable to invest money, because if it could be profitable they would do it. Too many new regulations, too many new taxes, Obamacare.......... There is no way I would encourage anyone to do a start up. The bad economy, taxes, regulations, paperwork just does not seem worth it Bet many also think that way.


Bankers rarely use their own money. And just which regulations are so arduous as to prevent them from trying to make an *honest* buck? I don't think you have the foggiest.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Gee, I sense that you equate success with "making wealth."


Probably not "making" wealth. More like "getting" wealth by whatever means.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Who knows why individual idiots do stupid things. Of course I do no approve of that behavior. But to continue to talk about such horrific behavior only gives the person that did it more time in the limelight. And hate to say it but it is their right to do so. Maybe they did it to rile people up, nothing more nothing less for kicks. But to assume that because not everyone chose to reflect on the incident shows a better use of their time, and does not make them racists.
> 
> But you make it impossible to consider you a civil person to discuss anything with. Just because I do not answer your question, it is probably because I think you are baiting me or I do not want to answer because it does not interest me. But I do find it interesting that your ego can't handle someone not answering what you believe is earthshattering.
> 
> Also I would suggest not being so snippy at the end of your posts; because personally I tend to ignore such childish behavior.


Say what?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That's where the Mom and Pop shops have been put. They are just another class of people to be exploited, instead of getting the respect they deserve for taking very serious risks. As a former small business owner, I know what some of the risks are, and they boil down to walking a tightrope without a net. Someone will probably say that a successful Mom and Pop shop automatically has a safety net, but they would be wrong.


As a former small business owner, Empress MIB, you can probably attest to my assertions that it has always been that way. 
You don't say when you were in business, I have given it a shot three separate times. 
1. I joined the kids' father in his established business as an office assistant. 
2. I ran a service business that went quite well. 
3. the retail thing 
None of the regulations that I dealt with had anything to do with Barack Obama and none of them made it impossible to run the business. If anything those regulations made it easier to be safe in my workplaces.

Didn't you just love the folks who made the assumption that you were wealthy because you "owned" a business?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ignore childish behavior? You display it!


That's why she ignores it.

Okay, I'm not going to quote Robert Burns again, but with these people, the last thing they want is to see themselves as others see them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Watch out, Empress Poor Purl. LTL has just told you not to get "uppity".


I noticed that, and I answered in kind.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is my 4th attempt, and I'm about to give up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The lazy former state worker here uses an email that she then sends to herself to make things easily accessible until such time as she figures out what to do...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> If that hypothesis were true, wouldn't there be an equal amout of rich & poor? When one CEO makes billions of dollars a year, for literlly doing nothing but sit on his yacht, where are the other hard working, rich wannabe's, going to get their millions? Do you now see the problem? There is nothing but corruption in the big business world. It's all back to the Master's & the Slaves. And I don't mean that in an ethnic connotation. The rich (masters) will control the poor (slaves). When you're starving to death, you'll jump through hoops for those rich who are waving that scrap of food over your head. It's like that already. That's why the mimimum wage isn't going up. That yacht sitting CEO can't bare to loose a single billion from his pocket.


I do not see that what you write here is true. Everyone controls their own individual life. It is not master and slaves. The people in big business that I know are honest, hardworking, family oriented, philanthropic, giving, respected, God-fearing, people.

I do believe like people attract like people, so I see what you see and you see what you see...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not sure that it is even worth it, My Empress, it would be a lot of work and duplication of effort, for what?
> LOL, can you just see some warm summer eve as the breeze begins to kick up a wild eyed woman in a frenzy running through the streets calling DAMEMARY! DAMEMARY! I know you are hiding that evil Janet Cooke here somewhere! I insist on taking her to my sweatshop to make whatever product I can't sell at the craft fair in Wilmington in 2014, just like I couldn't in 2013.


 :thumbup: Funny :lol:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)




----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, heck, Empress of the Tower, I thank you for finding that post. I can't track down your post saying that you found it.
> It really didn't seem to me that it was that late during the day, but whatever. As far as I am concerned it is over.


Empress of the Tower? Like Rapunzel. I just got my hair cut yesterday. Now I'll need it back.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is my 4th attempt, and I'm about to give up:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That little cutie isn't saying 'blah blah' though. 
Did you ruin it? (that's what my little guy says) I ruined it, Grammy. Then I have to explain that you cannot ruin Lincoln Logs just by taking them down.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Empress of the Tower? Like Rapunzel. I just got my hair cut yesterday. Now I'll need it back.


HAHAHAA, my timing is ALWAYS off.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The lazy former state worker here uses an email that she then sends to herself to make things easily accessible until such time as she figures out what to do...


Funny thing, I do that with numbers I need to remember, but never thought of it in connection with KP. Thanks, lazy. My cat is named Lazy.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not see that what you write here is true. Everyone controls their own individual life. It is not master and slaves. The people in big business that I know are honest, hardworking, family oriented, philanthropic, giving, respected, God-fearing, people.
> 
> I do believe like people attract like people, so I see what you see and you see what you see...


You are right, like people attract like people. But what I can't understand, is what you see in LTL, soloweygirl & KPG, other than the fact they are presumebly Republicans. 
They are the kind of people I would distance myself from. IMO, they seem to have some pretty warped ideas.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That little cutie isn't saying 'blah blah' though.
> Did you ruin it? (that's what my little guy says) I ruined it, Grammy. Then I have to explain that you cannot ruin Lincoln Logs just by taking them down.


No, the hand next to that cutie is going "blah blah."

But you can ruin the structure you built by taking down the Lincoln Logs (gee, makes me nostalgic; it's so long since I've had to play with them). I think your little guy has a point.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAHAA, my timing is ALWAYS off.


It's okay. I have a wig. I won't tell you how I got it, even though it's a very funny story. Way too long (the story, not the wig).


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> We all know what viability means for a child who has possibly already been deprived of oxygen for up to an hour, though. It means being brought into the world with mulitple needs, physical and intellectual, with a father who has another child under 18 months to care for already.
> So we can start another 2 children on a round of subsistence living. The man is a paramedic, they don't make much money, they work terrible hours... honestly, I don't see that she needed a written statement. He and her parents say she wouldn't have wanted this. Talk about they have suffered enough...


I admit that the thought that the unborn child was severely damaged from oxygen deprivation crossed my mind...The woman's parents and husband do seem very united on the issue, which is unusual. I'm sure they know the child's true medical condition and, yes, if the unborn baby has suffered irreparable damage I don't know how they'll manage. It's always struck me as odd that the anti-abortion forces will do anything to prevent them--except provide more resources for the women and the children in question. If every child was guaranteed adequate food, shelter, education, and medical care, there'd be many fewer abortions in this country.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Bankers rarely use their own money. And just which regulations are so arduous as to prevent them from trying to make an *honest* buck? I don't think you have the foggiest.


I am beginning to wonder if the people we are talking to understand that there is a difference between securities and commercial banking. 
After all, someone thought the other day that Dodd-Frank was in place prior to the bubble imploding. 
It's the only reason I can think of for there being hours of talking at cross purposes.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I admit that the thought that the unborn child was severely damaged from oxygen deprivation crossed my mind...The woman's parents and husband do seem very united on the issue, which is unusual. I'm sure they know the child's true medical condition and, yes, if the unborn baby has suffered irreparable damage I don't know how they'll manage. It's always struck me as odd that the anti-abortion forces will do anything to prevent them--except provide more resources for the women and the children in question. If every child was guaranteed adequate food, shelter, education, and medical care, there'd be many fewer abortions in this country.


Of course, very few women are interested in abortion on demand, using abortion as a form of birth control, who would do that?
This family has been living with this for six weeks now, you figure 14 weeks? They were just breathing that sigh of relief that all was well with the baby. What a shame.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do and so do all _those_ I know who create wealth. :thumbup: There is 'that' word again the Libs have such a hard time understanding. They can guess how many I'm talking about now. :XD: I'm secure in the fact that you'll understand LTL. :-D


Hey 'hacker' your goose is cooked according the cultists.

Personally, I think you used the phrase the goose was cooked, I repeated it to you, and then Karma hit and the Libs went crazy.

Wonder if you ever tell us about a turkey you were going to deep fry, if someone would yell 'fowl' because their name was Fry? Or if you were drinking rosehip tea they would get 'steamed' up because their name was Rose. Or you were baking snicker doodles and they would need a cooling rack because they were burned up because someone's name was cookie. Don't get me started on Whoopie Pies or Blondies..............


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Hey 'hacker' your goose is cooked according the cultists.
> 
> Personally, I think you used the phrase the goose was cooked, I repeated it to you, and then Karma hit and the Libs went crazy.
> 
> Wonder if you ever tell us about a turkey you were going to deep fry, if someone would yell 'fowl' because their name was Fry? Or if you were drinking rosehip tea they would get 'steamed' up because their name was Rose. Or you were baking snicker doodles and they would need a cooling rack because they were burned up because someone's name was cookie. Don't get me started on Whoopie Pies or Blondies..............


You know how people know that someone is telling lies? 
They go into too much detail and do too much explaining.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Of course, very few women are interested in abortion on demand, using abortion as a form of birth control, who would do that?
> This family has been living with this for six weeks now, you figure 14 weeks? They were just breathing that sigh of relief that all was well with the baby. What a shame.


The real tragedy, I suppose, is that this thing has dragged on for so long. I personally have far fewer reservations about first-trimester abortions, as do many...and the right-to-lifers are quick to take advantage of that. They know by forcing a woman who wants an abortion to wait and wait and wait it becomes increasingly difficult to make the arrangements. The cost and the risks involved go way up as well.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> The real tragedy, I suppose, is that this thing has dragged on for so long. I personally have far fewer reservations about first-trimester abortions, as do many...and the right-to-lifers are quick to take advantage of that. They know by forcing a woman who wants an abortion to wait and wait and wait it becomes increasingly difficult to make the arrangements. The cost and the risks involved go way up as well.


It also gets increasingly harder to go through with the procedure when "Mom" starts feeling like it is a person and not tissue.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You know how people know that someone is telling lies?
> They go into too much detail and do too much explaining.


How astonishing that these self-proclaimed Christians have no reservations about telling such whopping fibs. Do they think that their God isn't keeping track?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> How astonishing that these self-proclaimed Christians have no reservations about telling such whopping fibs. Do they think that their God isn't keeping track?


It's more astonishing to me that these people seem to have no awareness of indicators of human behavior and even when someone tips them off to what their "actions" portray, they keep right on doing the same thing. 
Not that it matters, I guess, since "big daddy" doesn't give a darn what they say. 
Maybe the advertisers should be clued in on the weekly discussions about how many people are unhappy with the behavior of folks and the constant talk about people leaving.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I admit that the thought that the unborn child was severely damaged from oxygen deprivation crossed my mind...The woman's parents and husband do seem very united on the issue, which is unusual. I'm sure they know the child's true medical condition and, yes, if the unborn baby has suffered irreparable damage I don't know how they'll manage. It's always struck me as odd that the anti-abortion forces will do anything to prevent them--except provide more resources for the women and the children in question. If every child was guaranteed adequate food, shelter, education, and medical care, there'd be many fewer abortions in this country.


Studies have shown that abortions go down when the economy is such that it supports women better. The Clinton years were such a time.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You know how people know that someone is telling lies?
> They go into too much detail and do too much explaining.


The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

William Shakespeare, _Hamlet_, act III, scene II


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Hey 'hacker' your goose is cooked according the cultists.
> 
> Personally, I think you used the phrase the goose was cooked, I repeated it to you, and then Karma hit and the Libs went crazy.
> 
> Don't get me started on Whoopie Pies or Blondies..............


ROFL! :XD: I have no idea why Janet and her buds blew a gasket. They are forever telling me they loathe me as an omnipotent deity shadowing their every move. Why, then, are they surprised with our powers to see them and know them for who they really are?

Seems to me you and I hold the power, not Ms. Cooke, who "took back her power" because she was forced to change her name, to, well, her name. I presume she didn't like her nickname that only we have the power to give?

Weirdo. Nah  I like the word I coined first on KP long ago  wackadoodle.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> The real tragedy, I suppose, is that this thing has dragged on for so long. I personally have far fewer reservations about first-trimester abortions, as do many...and the right-to-lifers are quick to take advantage of that. They know by forcing a woman who wants an abortion to wait and wait and wait it becomes increasingly difficult to make the arrangements. The cost and the risks involved go way up as well.


There is another lawsuit to happen. If the baby is delivered and the father does not wish extreme measures taken (and any baby born at 24 weeks -the age given in the article for viability testing- requires extreme measures, I worked in a neonatal intensive care unit so I am very familiar with it) and the hospital does not withdraw care then and the baby "survives" but is severely damaged and requires extra care, the family can sue the hopital for damages. It's already been done and the parents won, and of course were then able to pay for the care of their child.

It is extremely cruel to force life on a being when it is trying to die, whether the being is 90 or just born. Forcing the type of injury on this baby, if it is born, is cruel and unusual.

What I haven't heard mentioned yet is the effects of medicine used to try to save the woman. It makes one wonder what lasting effects that will have too.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ROFL! :XD: I have no idea why Janet and her buds blew a gasket. They are forever telling me they loathe me as an omnipotent deity shadowing their every move. Why, then, are they surprised with our powers to see them and know them for who they really are?
> 
> Seems to me you and I hold the power, not Ms. Cooke, who "took back her power" because she was forced to change her name, to, well, her name. I presume she didn't like her nickname that only we have the power to give?
> 
> Weirdo. Nah  I like the word I coined first on KP long ago  wackadoodle.


You need to get the word out to the minions, this AM/early PM the word was that you didn't make me do anything, which of course, you didn't.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> There is another lawsuit to happen. If the baby is delivered and the father does not wish extreme measures taken (and any baby born at 24 weeks -the age given in the article for viability testing- requires extreme measures, I worked in a neonatal intensive care unit so I am very familiar with it) and the hospital does not withdraw care then and the baby "survives" but is severely damaged and requires extra care, the family can sue the hopital for damages. It's already been done and the parents won, and of course were then able to pay for the care of their child.
> 
> It is extremely cruel to force life on a being when it is trying to die, whether the being is 90 or just born. Forcing the type of injury on this baby, if it is born, is cruel and unusual.
> 
> What I haven't heard mentioned yet is the effects of medicine used to try to save the woman. It makes one wonder what lasting effects that will have too.


It is a sad situation all the way around. 
Can you picture, LKholcomb, being a nurse in that section? Can you imagine having to see that day by day?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is a sad situation all the way around.
> Can you picture, LKholcomb, being a nurse in that section? Can you imagine having to see that day by day?


It would be horrible. Ethical considerations regarding the information and choice parents were given regarding possible withdrawal of care were part of the reason I left. Sometimes doing "everything" is just cruel. I saw babies die never having been held or had one touch of gentleness (the unstable ones would code with people just whispering in the room, so just nice touches were impossible), the only touches they got were most jobs with needles, tubes down their throat and nose, ect. But the parents weren't told thar when it got bad they had the option of withdrawing care and holding their baby while they died. A lot of people think its horrible to not be in favor of doing everything and going all out, but then they haven't seen the effects of that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is a sad situation all the way around.
> Can you picture, LKholcomb, being a nurse in that section? Can you imagine having to see that day by day?


It really is--no happy endings here.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> It would be horrible. Ethical considerations regarding the information and choice parents were given regarding possible withdrawal of care were part of the reason I left. Sometimes doing "everything" is just cruel. I saw babies die never having been held or had one touch of gentleness (the unstable ones would code with people just whispering in the room, so just nice touches were impossible), the only touches they got were most jobs with needles, tubes down their throat and nose, ect. But the parents weren't told thar when it got bad they had the option of withdrawing care and holding their baby while they died. A lot of people think its horrible to not be in favor of doing everything and going all out, but then they haven't seen the effects of that.


Right, it is like the abortion issue, they want to go all out at the time of the birth "just because we can" and then provide little or no support to the families who are loving and caring for these children 24/7. Respite care is minimal even in a state such as Mass. It's heart breaking really.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


>


Funny :lol:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Funny :lol:


LOL, was that Christie's exit?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> As a former small business owner, Empress MIB, you can probably attest to my assertions that it has always been that way.
> You don't say when you were in business, I have given it a shot three separate times.
> 1. I joined the kids' father in his established business as an office assistant.
> 2. I ran a service business that went quite well.
> ...


1. I was part owner of a pizza shop from 1969-1972. I had a middle class income.
2.My ex-husband and I owned a small used book store from 1992-99.. We had a middle class income.

You and I both know we're talking about people who don't work 9 to 5. They work as many hours as it takes. Who takes up the slack if an employee is sick? The owner. Who does everything from sweeping floors to paying the taxes? The owner.

The conservatives here like to think liberals don't put their time, energy and education into making a good life for themselves. They like to believe liberals don't make choices that lead to success. Neither of those things is true. All kinds of people own and operate small businesses. Some succeed, some fail. The point is that small businesses are an important part of our entire economic structure.

When I owned a business, I complied with the rules and regulations i was supposed to comply with. I was a good employer, too. I paid my few employees a living wage, not the minimum wage. If you invest in employees by proving you value them enough to pay them a living wage, they reward you many times over the investment you make in them. They come to work on time, they don't steal from you, they don't take a day off just because they feel like it. You can even work with them to arrange vacation times that aren't as strictly controlled as in the 9 to 5 workplace, but meet personal, regulatory and very specifically tailored needs and wishes. There is even, dare I say it, mutual respect.

Oh dear, I am ranting and raving. It has been a long busy day. Now I'm the 64 year old daughter with an 85 year old mother who needs various kinds of assistance. I don't work 9 to 5. I work as many hours as it takes to get the job done. I like what I'm doing and am valued for it as well. I'm taking over my mother's business affairs and have learned that the budgeting I have been doing has added more to her savings than I projected. We are both pleased and live comfortably. Maybe life is a small business all its own.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. I was part owner of a pizza shop from 1969-1972. I had a middle class income.
> 2.My ex-husband and I owned a small used book store from 1992-99.. We had a middle class income.
> 
> You and I both know we're talking about people who don't work 9 to 5. They work as many hours as it takes. Who takes up the slack if an employee is sick? The owner. Who does everything from sweeping floors to paying the taxes? The owner.
> ...


Glad to hear it, Empress, take your brother out for a pizza!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, was that Christie's exit?


I don't know.......I believe it was, but it looks to me like someone has deliberately blocked the exit.....Now who would do such a despicable thing??? Some heartless, scheming, no good......hummm.... That discription sounds very familar. Now where have I just recently heard of someone doing just such a thing???? :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Glad to hear it, Empress, take your brother out for a pizza!


No, no!! He orders the pizza and it gets delivered!! Paper plates, paper napkins. No eating utensils!!! Just a few glasses to wash, and that's all!!! I have had the pleasure of making him a pizza in my shop where we did the whole show and threw the crusts in the air with great finesse. That was a very cool shared moment. :-D :-D :-D :-D :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I don't know.......I believe it was, but it looks to me like someone has deliberately blocked the exit.....Now who would do such a despicable thing??? Some heartless, scheming, no good......hummm.... That discription sounds very familar. Now where have I just recently heard of someone doing just such a thing???? :XD: :XD: :XD:


Not in the great Northeast, for sure.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Wonder if Governor Tomblin's administration was doing its job and was monitoring the waterways? Wonder if they were doing inspections on coal factories?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You need to get the word out to the minions, this AM/early PM the word was that you didn't make me do anything, which of course, you didn't.


Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults, called Yarnie, LTL and/or me liars, not a lady, pig puke, said "You suck", said multiple times I have serious mental health issues, posted swears and other vial nicknames and proposed avatars of me.

You and your bully gang rattled on for page upon page upon page about a conspiracy theory to "out" you, how I personally hacked into KP's data base and how you all would report us/me to Admin for "what we had done to you." (BTW: It was *you* who stated your own first and last names on KP.)

You recently posted that the one who does the most explaining is the liar and another of your gang posted thou protest too much.

Believe it. You were both correct.

Yarnie, LTL and I _combined_ made maybe four posts in this thread during that time. Yet probably fifteen pages of bully posters carried on and remain for everyone to read.

Here's a tip for you and your minions. Rather than trying to insult and pull everyone down to your bottom-feeder level, which hasn't worked and will never succeed; try instead raising yourselves up to the level of those of whom you are envious and admire.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults, called LTL, Yarnie and me liars, not a lady, pig puke, said "You suck", said multiple times I have serious mental health issues, posted swears and other vial nicknames and proposed avatars of us.
> 
> You and your bully gang rattled on for page upon page upon page about a conspiracy theory to "out" you, how I personally hacked into KP's data base and how you all would report us/me to Admin for "what we had done to you."
> 
> ...


What's all this talk about Yarnie, LTL, and the rest? The problem we have is with you, dear. You overstepped the boundaries of common sense and decency and you know it. The fact that even your political cronies are rarely engaging with you now should tell you something.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ROFL! :XD: I have no idea why Janet and her buds blew a gasket. They are forever telling me they loathe me as an omnipotent deity shadowing their every move. Why, then, are they surprised with our powers to see them and know them for who they really are?
> 
> Seems to me you and I hold the power, not Ms. Cooke, who "took back her power" because she was forced to change her name, to, well, her name. I presume she didn't like her nickname that only we have the power to give?
> 
> Weirdo. Nah  I like the word I coined first on KP long ago  wackadoodle.


You said you had the private info about some libs. You are probably joking, but if you aren't, well, you can understand that most anybody would be concerned about that. Think of what would happen to you if you yelled "bomb" in an airport. Stating that you have private info about people here is a lot like that. Not a good thing to joke about. If I said I knew your name and home address, you'd probably be concerned about that.

"Wackadoodle" is a good old word that's been around a long time. I think I first heard it when I was a kid, at least over 50 years ago. You coined it? Nope. Used it here first? Sure, maybe you did.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They are forever telling me they loathe me as an omnipotent deity shadowing their every move. Why, then, are they surprised with our powers to see them and know them for who they really are?


We are surprised by your powers to delude yourself and friends. But dream on.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> It is extremely cruel to force life on a being when it is trying to die, whether the being is 90 or just born. Forcing the type of injury on this baby, if it is born, is cruel and unusual.


That's very well put. I've often thought to myself that the type of extreme medical intervention shown here and in so many other extraordinary cases are NOT those of a life-affirming society but one merely terrified of death. There's a huge difference. Life understands Death as an integral and essential part of itself.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults... blah, blah, blah


Found this for ya, KPG:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> What's all this talk about Yarnie, LTL, and the rest? The problem we have is with you, dear. You overstepped the boundaries of common sense and decency and you know it. The fact that even your political cronies are rarely engaging with you now should tell you something.


Hilarious

Ever heard of PM's, phones or emails?

Again, this is not about you. It is none of your business if or how friends communicate with each other. Some of us have a life outside of KP. We don't sit by our computers waiting in lonely anticipation for others to write something so we can parse their words, ridicule them, call them names, make assumptions, and so on.

Baking (probably burning) brownies, want one?


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> What's all this talk about Yarnie, LTL, and the rest? The problem we have is with you, dear. You overstepped the boundaries of common sense and decency and you know it. The fact that even your political cronies are rarely engaging with you now should tell you something.


'The Fact' is this political cronie has obligations. KP is not on my list of must do's. I do support KGP, Yarnie, Lakes and the rest, just on my schedule. So your fact is wrong.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults, called Yarnie, LTL and/or me liars, not a lady, pig puke, said "You suck", said multiple times I have serious mental health issues, posted swears and other vial nicknames and proposed avatars of me.
> 
> You and your bully gang rattled on for page upon page upon page about a conspiracy theory to "out" you, how I personally hacked into KP's data base and how you all would report us/me to Admin for "what we had done to you." (BTW: It was *you* who stated your own first and last names on KP.)
> 
> ...


Until now, KPG, I've always had a grudging respect for you. I've always believed that you're very intelligent. You're obviously well-traveled and well-read--an excellent writer--witty--have the courage of ten and a fierce loyalty toward your friends that I've always found admirable.

But you lack the ability to step away when the going here gets rough. You can't apologize for or even recognize when you've gone too far. You can't admit a mistake--can't take the most well-intentioned advice--can't even think the words "I was wrong. I'm sorry". Do you even understand what they mean?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Hilarious
> 
> Ever heard of PM's, phones or emails?
> 
> ...


Ain't technology grand? Hope you are enjoying PMs, emails and phone calls. Add Skype and video chatting and you can really be in touch with friends. I speak from experience, having a few old friends who live a ways from me.

If you're feeling a bit nutty, you can have some of my peanut butter/butterscotch chip cookies. Guaranteed unburned. If you're feeling really nutso, you can have a slice of my pecan upside down cake. Cures even the hardest head cases. Hey, these cooking jokes are kinda fun!:-D


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

galinipper said:


> 'The Fact' is this political cronie has obligations. KP is not on my list of must do's. I do support KGP, Yarnie, Lakes and the rest, just on my schedule. So your fact is wrong.


Wow! Those shoes are one of the finest examples of desecrating the American flag I've seen in a long time. It's not supposed to touch the ground, and here you are walking on it. Oh, wait,maybe you're making a statement. That falls under the 1st Amendment. Lucjy for you. :hunf: :hunf:


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! Those shoes are one of the finest examples of desecrating the American flag I've seen in a long time. It's not supposed to touch the ground, and here you are walking on it. Oh, wait,maybe you're making a statement. That falls under the 1st Amendment. Lucjy for you. :hunf: :hunf:


Well Lucjy for you too!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I agree with what you said KGP. What we were blamed for and called names for do not understand. It works both ways, name calling is a all that is going on on this site. To think that you have the ability to know everything and for those to worry and get carry away is a wonder to me.

Don't know if you ladies remember posting a picture which you said was KGP or how you know her web site which she uses to sell her products. How about the one who said she found KGP on facebook? I wonder if you all remember that one of you put my name (first name) on this site? You could have only gotten it from reading back post like you are accusing KGP LTL of doing? 
As to spelling some of you have forgotten how you went after me about the same thing.It was cruel and you know it was. 
this is nonsense about calling a cooked goose as nickname. I have heard worst from both sides.
the thing of calling someone mentally ill is such an awful way to get a point across because you do not agree with what is said. It is just as cruel as what has been done to me. Yes some of it I deserved, but some I did not. 

As to my not being lady like from what I have seen it works both ways.

Do not agree with a lot that is said on here, but to say a nick name was the fault of the three of us. Come on no one knows ones name unless they read it on this site.

I still care and respect KGP,LTL,LL, Slowgirl,and all of the rest on the right.
I also know that all of you on the left feel the same way about the ladies who are on the left. So to say one should not care about said person. Again it works both ways.

have now said what I feel sure you will not like it but that is o.k. you are intitle to your opinion, just as I am mine.

Also just for the record I do not agree with Chrisstie(probably spelled wrong) has done and is doing. I am sure he is a nice person in his own right, but do not think he would be a good candidate for President. That why I am an independant, do not vote party but person.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ain't technology grand? Hope you are enjoying PMs, emails and phone calls. Add Skype and video chatting and you can really be in touch with friends. I speak from experience, having a few old friends who live a ways from me.
> 
> If you're feeling a bit nutty, you can have some of my peanut butter/butterscotch chip cookies. Guaranteed unburned. If you're feeling really nutso, you can have a slice of my pecan upside down cake. Cures even the hardest head cases. Hey, these cooking jokes are kinda fun!:-D


Sounds good to me cookies that is.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! Those shoes are one of the finest examples of desecrating the American flag I've seen in a long time. It's not supposed to touch the ground, and here you are walking on it. Oh, wait,maybe you're making a statement. That falls under the 1st Amendment. Lucjy for you. :hunf: :hunf:


The American "FLAG" is not to touch the ground.

Shoes are meant to.

Learn the difference.

Gali - great shoes!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I agree with what you said KGP. What we were blamed for and called names for do not understand. It works both ways, name calling is a all that is going on on this site. To think that you have the ability to know everything and for those to worry and get carry away is a wonder to me.
> 
> Don't know if you ladies remember posting a picture which you said was KGP or how you know her web site which she uses to sell her products. How about the one who said she found KGP on facebook? I wonder if you all remember that one of you put my name (first name) on this site? You could have only gotten it from reading back post like you are accusing KGP LTL of doing?
> As to spelling some of you have forgotten how you went after me about the same thing.It was cruel and you know it was.
> ...


Thanks for your kind words Yarnie. I don't have a website nor a Facebook page as you stated, yet the Liberals have seen it, me, and know who I am and what I do. Didn't you know? :-D

I am still upset how they trashed the person in the picture either Cheeky Blighter or Bratty Patty, or both, I cannot remember, posted and claimed was a photo of me (it was not). I apologize to whoever it was on behalf of the ugly words by the Liberals on KP who slammed her without reason or cause.

As I stated prior; I entered some of the "hot topics" threads to hear and voice facts and opinions. The Liberals turn them into nothing other than a place for them to personally attack anyone with whom they do not agree.

I have strong shoulders and nothing they have ever called me or compared me as "being" is anything other than a superb Libel lawsuit for me to pursue.

They are laughable, and I a fool to believe they could discuss, present their facts and opinions of any value.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults, called Yarnie, LTL and/or me liars, not a lady, pig puke, said "You suck", said multiple times I have serious mental health issues, posted swears and other vial nicknames and proposed avatars of me.
> 
> You and your bully gang rattled on for page upon page upon page about a conspiracy theory to "out" you, how I personally hacked into KP's data base and how you all would report us/me to Admin for "what we had done to you." (BTW: It was *you* who stated your own first and last names on KP.)
> 
> ...


I've come back to this post a 3rd time because... I can't figure out why you're complaining. Or is it just for effect, to play the victim? Because the treatment you dish out is purposely designed to transform your opponents into enemies, isn't it? I mean really, isn't that what you actively intend?

If NOT, if that's not what you intend, then perhaps you're not the terrific writer you think you are because good writers are well aware of what they want to accomplish via their written words and are overwhelmingly successful at it.

Or if not, perhaps a little self-reflection is in order about your posting style -- IF you're capable of self-reflection and if not, well, it's a skill worth developing.

If it IS what you want after all, then by all means carry on! But kwitcherbitchn when you reap what you sow.

Because, honestly, you have no right whatsoever to complain about any negative treatment you receive here. People will only take so much before they strike back. You are due a bountiful harvest, m'dear.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. I was part owner of a pizza shop from 1969-1972. I had a middle class income.
> 2.My ex-husband and I owned a small used book store from 1992-99.. We had a middle class income.
> 
> You and I both know we're talking about people who don't work 9 to 5. They work as many hours as it takes. Who takes up the slack if an employee is sick? The owner. Who does everything from sweeping floors to paying the taxes? The owner.
> ...


Your post reminds me of the place my husband works for.

My husband works for a business that is growing (started out smaller). They care so much for their employees! He has had to take time off work sometimes for my medical issues and also when his mom was in the hospital. They are so great with just working with him on how to do that, and have been since he was hired. They actually make an effort to give bonuses to employees and other special benefits. They care about the families and make an effort ever year to not only give the kids of the employees money for good grades, but the owner or CEO personally want to meet the kids and tell them they are doing a good job. Nothing much really changed when the ACA kicked in, except now they have 2 health policies to chose from (the new one is the "bare bones" ACA minimum required one).

They have been taking so good care of their employees and truly caring for them that many employees don't mind if schedules need to change (although they are asked, not told) or other issues arise. We all know that if there is an issue that comes up they will do their best to help. Even when we had issues with the HMO a few years ago and my husband called the HR department the company called on his behalf because the HMO had stopped returning our calls (and was refusing to honor the contract that the company had with then for care).

Most bigger companies today don't give a hoot about their employees, unless they are the "important" ones. Smaller businesses, and companies that care, are overlooked in this "money, money, money" society.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The American "FLAG" is not to touch the ground.
> Shoes are meant to.
> Learn the difference.
> Gali - great shoes!


I so admire how consistently contrary you are about anything anyone you don't agree with says. Please, stay the way you are and never spoil your record.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I so admire how consistently contrary you are about anything anyone you don't agree with says. Please, stay the way you are and never spoil your record.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I have strong shoulders and nothing they have ever called me or compared me as "being" is anything other than a superb Libel lawsuit for me to pursue.


To quote Obama: Please proceed, Governor.



> They are laughable, and I a fool to believe they could discuss, present their facts and opinions of any value.


Yeah, you a fool alright, and there you go projecting again.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Your post reminds me of the place my husband works for.
> 
> My husband works for a business that is growing (started out smaller). They care so much for their employees! He has had to take time off work sometimes for my medical issues and also when his mom was in the hospital. They are so great with just working with him on how to do that, and have been since he was hired. They actually make an effort to give bonuses to employees and other special benefits. They care about the families and make an effort ever year to not only give the kids of the employees money for good grades, but the owner or CEO personally want to meet the kids and tell them they are doing a good job. Nothing much really changed when the ACA kicked in, except now they have 2 health policies to chose from (the new one is the "bare bones" ACA minimum required one).
> 
> ...


Thanks for your post. It's encouraging to hear that someone works for a company that cares about its employees.I will always believe that when employers value and respect their employees, they will be rewarded many times over the investment they make.

Ideally, bigger companies would find it more important to concretely show their employees that they are valued. The more money there is, the more an undervalued, faceless employee in a big company will treat their employer the same way they are treated whenever they can get away with it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks for your post. It's encouraging to hear that someone works for a company that cares about its employees.I will always believe that when employers value and respect their employees, they will be rewarded many times over the investment they make.
> 
> Ideally, bigger companies would find it more important to concretely show their employees that they are valued. The more money there is, the more an undervalued, faceless employee in a big company will treat their employer the same way they are treated whenever they can get away with it.


A good employer is a smart employer. 
If you treat your employees with respect, train them well so that when they interact with consumers they feel that they have done well and the consumer feels the same it is a win/win/win. 
Not to mention that it is just plain the right way to act.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> A good employer is a smart employer.
> If you treat your employees with respect, train them well so that when they interact with consumers they feel that they have done well and the consumer feels the same it is a win/win/win.
> Not to mention that it is just plain the right way to act.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree. What I don't understand very well is why there are so many stupid our society are studid. Not very encouraging...


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! Those shoes are one of the finest examples of desecrating the American flag I've seen in a long time. It's not supposed to touch the ground, and here you are walking on it. Oh, wait,maybe you're making a statement. That falls under the 1st Amendment. Lucjy for you. :hunf: :hunf:


Well the flag code of the United States does leave the impression that it is in poor taste, or rather outright says it.

http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree. What I don't understand very well is why there are so many stupid our society are studid. Not very encouraging...


I think it is because of a short sighted mindset. 
In addition to that, people are just so set on having stuff (George Carlin?). 
I suppose in some form it is good for the economy, but, this shop 'til you drop thing is just crazy. People say they need to buy cheap, and I do mean cheap clothing, the reason is because instead of purchasing a couple of nice pieces they buy 15 pieces of crap. 
I bet at least half of us who come to this thread still have items of clothing that we have been wearing for decades. It may be for a different purpose, but we still have them and they still work. I have a Woolrich jacket that I bought in the 80s that is definitely the worse for wear... still great for shoveling and slogging around in the back yard. 
I also have, saved for the same purposes, a jacket that I bought cheap at Kohl's due to a sudden temp. change and it started falling apart as soon as I got it home. 
People accept that, and continue to go back and spend money on clothing made from lousy cloth...appliances made with brittle plastic... I guess what I am trying to say is that we don't hold companies accountable. 
Naturally, they act like the public, American or otherwise, doesn't deserve any better.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Well the flag code of the United States does leave the impression that it is in poor taste, or rather outright says it.
> 
> http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf


Galinipper seems to think her shoes aren't in poor taste. I happen to think they are. An expert on the Flag Code would probably think those shoes are in poor taste. There are probably as many definitions of "poor taste" as there are people in this country old enough to express themselves.

Here I am remarking on someone's shoes.     It must be time for me to head out to the kitfchen and make some pancakes. :thumbup:


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Here I am remarking on someone's shoes.     It must be time for me to head out to the kitfchen and make some pancakes. :thumbup:


lol!


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think it is because of a short sighted mindset.
> In addition to that, people are just so set on having stuff (George Carlin?).
> I suppose in some form it is good for the economy, but, this shop 'til you drop thing is just crazy. People say they need to buy cheap, and I do mean cheap clothing, the reason is because instead of purchasing a couple of nice pieces they buy 15 pieces of crap.
> I bet at least half of us who come to this thread still have items of clothing that we have been wearing for decades. It may be for a different purpose, but we still have them and they still work. I have a Woolrich jacket that I bought in the 80s that is definitely the worse for wear... still great for shoveling and slogging around in the back yard.
> ...


I know a lot of people who buy cheap, but they don't buy 15. I think the not holding accountable for quality, of the companies that makes and sell these things are, for lack of better words, screwing the poor people. Unfortunately there are not second hand shops everywhere, I know that there was only one, maybe two that I knew of when I was younger. Now there are more, but there are way more stores selling cheap things that fall apart.

I prefer to go to second hand shops when I can but unfortunately in our adult sizes there are not many selections. So basically I end up with the cheap things, but not a lot. I have found some cheaper brands that have worked for a while for me.

I agree though, the emphasis in our society is on "stuff" and how much "stuff" you can collect. Sad really.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I know a lot of people who buy cheap, but they don't buy 15. I think the not holding accountable for quality, of the companies that makes and sell these things are, for lack of better words, screwing the poor people. Unfortunately there are not second hand shops everywhere, I know that there was only one, maybe two that I knew of when I was younger. Now there are more, but there are way more stores selling cheap things that fall apart.
> 
> I prefer to go to second hand shops when I can but unfortunately in our adult sizes there are not many selections. So basically I end up with the cheap things, but not a lot. I have found some cheaper brands that have worked for a while for me.
> 
> I agree though, the emphasis in our society is on "stuff" and how much "stuff" you can collect. Sad really.


I chose that 15 out of the air really, I was reading a blog recently and that gentleman wrote of having 50 Tee Shirts. 
Sheesh. And yet, I bet that is the norm, or close to it. Why else do people need so much closet space?
It is without a doubt, LKholcomb, much easier when one can get out on a whim or on sale days at the second hand places ...as well as when that first responsibility is no longer to provide the children with clothes. 
What a different world it is these days.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Keep it up, so low, you just implicated yourself in the childish little conspiracy.


Now you are into conspiracy theories. Oh brother.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks, I like it, too. :wink:
> I probably could have ridden it out and they would have tired of the game in a day or so.
> As with any abusers, though, the activity can begin again at any moment. It just made sense to take that opportunity away.


Let me get this straight: A play on words led you to feel abused and in order to take your power back you put your real nome on a knitting forum.

WOW, that's a slap across the face to anyone that has really been abused.

Let the pity party commence.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Lukelucy wrote:
> No. The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy.
> 
> Really? You REALLY believe this sentence is literally true? I'd like an explanation -- a brief one will do -- of how that works, what the process is. Because I must be too stupid to get it.
> ...


I suppose that has been replaced with sitting on one's ass is hard work and we should just hand the people money so they can become successful. We will also make every excuse for them as well on their journey to success.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose that has been replaced with sitting on one's ass is hard work and we should just hand the people money so they can become successful. We will also make every excuse for them as well on their journey to success.


Touche. Right on.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Oh hell no.
> 
> Sorry -- I'd gladly do most things you asked, but that would be both a waste of my time and pointless. She doesn't/can't/wouldn't/won't get it -- accidentally or on purpose. LOL.
> 
> But really, the bottom line for me is that she doesn't deserve an explanation. But it wouldn't stick anyway. So, like I said: waste of time, pointless.


That would be because I would have to consider the value of the information given. I absolutely hold no value over any information/opinion you would offer, therefore, it would be a waste of my time to read it and yours to give it. Thank you for not wasting my time.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree. What I don't understand very well is why there are so many stupid our society are studid. Not very encouraging...


"What I don't understand very well is why there are so many stupid our society are studid. Not very encouraging..." Now that's a pretty bad and unintelligible sentence i wrote. What i meant was:
"What I don't understand very well is why there are so many stupid employers. Maybe this reflects how many people in our society are stupid. Not very encouraging..."


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, that's usually the difference between better educated people and others. Having access to quality educational systems is first and foremost, but if people haven't developed intellectual curiosity and care about learning, ... well, as they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.
> 
> And I am CERTAINLY imperfect with my spelling and grammar. But when mistakes are pointed out to me, I DO care and I try to learn from it. Because I do care.
> 
> It's part of that work ethic. Intellectual laziness is as bad as, if not worse than, physical laziness, IMO.


The flaw in your "logic" is that you are not better educated. Your (collective) purpose is not to educate, but to ridicule.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Uh  huh. Sure. You and your gang of Liberal bullies made insults, called Yarnie, LTL and/or me liars, not a lady, pig puke, said "You suck", said multiple times I have serious mental health issues, posted swears and other vial nicknames and proposed avatars of me.
> 
> You and your bully gang rattled on for page upon page upon page about a conspiracy theory to "out" you, how I personally hacked into KP's data base and how you all would report us/me to Admin for "what we had done to you." (BTW: It was *you* who stated your own first and last names on KP.)
> 
> ...


Insulting and pulling everyone down to your bottom-feeder level? Well, it sounds more like the posts you have endlessly made. But if we have had to correct your mistakes with a few colorful words, at least WE do it with Finesse :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That would be because I would have to consider the value of the information given. I absolutely hold no value over any information/opinion you would offer, therefore, it would be a waste of my time to read it and yours to give it. Thank you for not wasting my time.


I think it's a good thing when people admit how close-minded and therefore how intent on remaining ignorant they are. Congratulations for that bit of uncharacteristic honesty.

I guess you don't recognize the flaw in your, um, logic -- ?? You're convinced that anything I post is of no value so it would a waste of your time to read it -- yet you read my post and took the time to respond. Doesn't make sense to me, except to say you seem perfectly willing to waste your time after all, despite your claim that you're not.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I think it's a good thing when people admit how close-minded and therefore how intent on remaining ignorant they are. Congratulations for that bit of uncharacteristic honesty.
> 
> I guess you don't recognize the flaw in your, um, logic -- ?? You're convinced that anything I post is of no value so it would a waste of your time to read it -- yet you read my post and took the time to respond. Doesn't make sense to me, except to say you seem perfectly willing to waste your time after all, despite your claim that you're not.


That pretty much sums up the whole mindset, in addition to taking the effort and expending the "thought processes" to pull up posts from 24 hours ago ( I had best say approx. so I don't have to read the stupidity about timelines) in order to refuel what was over and done.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Uh, I'm pretty sure she didn't ask the price, just the chance to see it.
> 
> There's no mistaking the racism, unless you're trying to "disappear" (dismiss, deny and trivialize) it -- which is another manifestation of racism.


You are just assuming it is a racist thing with the store clerk. You know nothing about her or the way she interacts with people, past or present. She is white, so by not showing a black customer the bag, she is automatically a racist.

The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You are just assuming it is a racist thing with the store clerk. You know nothing about her or the way she interacts with people, past or present. She is white, so by not showing a black customer the bag, she is automatically a racist.
> 
> The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.


Of course it was, Oprah has nothing to worry about but the attention of the pissants all over the world. 
Oprah was being interviewed, didn't that show she was getting attention? :roll:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The flaw in your "logic" is that you are not better educated. Your (collective) purpose is not to educate, but to ridicule.


And we know they are not educated. And you are so correct. The uneducated here ridicule.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> And we know they are not educated. And you are so correct. The uneducated here ridicule.


The educated, who apparently hold themselves superior due to the circumstances of their births, riducule while pretending they don't. 
I guess that makes them mean *and* liars.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That's where the Mom and Pop shops have been put. They are just another class of people to be exploited, instead of getting the respect they deserve for taking very serious risks. As a former small business owner, I know what some of the risks are, and they boil down to walking a tightrope without a net. Someone will probably say that a successful Mom and Pop shop automatically has a safety net, but they would be wrong.


This is something we can agree on. It's your "friends" that are having difficultly in grasping that concept. Many Mom and Pop shops are small and are struggling week to week. Most of the liberals are lumping them in with the big bad businesses that do send their money out of the country. MC business owners don't share that luxury.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I've come back to this post a 3rd time because... I can't figure out why you're complaining. Or is it just for effect, to play the victim? Because the treatment you dish out is purposely designed to transform your opponents into enemies, isn't it? I mean really, isn't that what you actively intend?
> 
> If NOT, if that's not what you intend, then perhaps you're not the terrific writer you think you are because good writers are well aware of what they want to accomplish via their written words and are overwhelmingly successful at it.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> This is something we can agree on. It's your "friends" that are having difficultly in grasping that concept. Many Mom and Pop shops are small and are struggling week to week. Most of the liberals are lumping them in with the big bad businesses that do send their money out of the country. MC business owners don't share that luxury.


You have no idea what the liberals who post here think, didn't you just posted today that Knitry is not worth your time?
We do not lump "mom and pop"'s in with big business. 
However, let me clue you in on just one little thing. When I bought new product while I may have been dealing with companies lower on the food chain I was giving my funds indirectly to big business. 
Where do you think that merchandise comes from?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> If that hypothesis were true, wouldn't there be an equal amout of rich & poor? When one CEO makes billions of dollars a year, for literlly doing nothing but sit on his yacht, where are the other hard working, rich wannabe's, going to get their millions? Do you now see the problem? There is nothing but corruption in the big business world. It's all back to the Master's & the Slaves. And I don't mean that in an ethnic connotation. The rich (masters) will control the poor (slaves). When you're starving to death, you'll jump through hoops for those rich who are waving that scrap of food over your head. It's like that already. That's why the mimimum wage isn't going up. That yacht sitting CEO can't bare to loose a single billion from his pocket.


The risk is there for anyone to take. Sitting around waiting for the CEO to throw a scrap will keep them where they are always waiting for another to give them something. There is definitely corruption in the big business world. A person doesn't have to play by someone else's rules though. They are allowed to play by their own rules to get ahead, as long as it's legal.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> This is something we can agree on. It's your "friends" that are having difficultly in grasping that concept. Many Mom and Pop shops are small and are struggling week to week. Most of the liberals are lumping them in with the big bad businesses that do send their money out of the country. MC business owners don't share that luxury.


I'm glad we do agree about this, and it's nice to hear you say so. I appreciate that. I have also gotten some positive responses from my "friends" here as well, though not all of them have responded to what I've said about small businesses. I'm sure there are people here who disagree with me, but I'm not going to try to figure out who they are.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Touche. Right on.


You know Lukelucy....you add SOOOOO much to these discussions....NOT! :roll:


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The flaw in your "logic" is that you are not better educated. Your (collective) purpose is not to educate, but to ridicule.


See, what you are doing right there, is not discussing It's lashing out, and belittling. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when all you do is go back, read old posts, then sit for the next half hour coming back at each post with nasty oneliners?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitry said:


> You're making me blush.
> 
> As for church, I have none. I graduated. :XD:
> 
> ...


Knitry
I too have graduated from leaning on a Crutch to becoming independent.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Nussa said:


> See, what you are doing right there, is not discussing It's lashing out, and belittling. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when all you do is go back, read old posts, then sit for the next half hour coming back at each post with nasty oneliners?


Nussa
Her behavior is a sign of living a life in a vacuum.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The risk is there for anyone to take. Sitting around waiting for the CEO to throw a scrap will keep them where they are always waiting for another to give them something. There is definitely corruption in the big business world. A person doesn't have to play by someone else's rules though. They are allowed to play by their own rules to get ahead, as long as it's legal.


You refuse to get it don't you? I started out trying to explain it to you, but realized it was just a waste of time. The thing with you is, you deleberately refuse to believe there is another side to the story. Your decisions are the only ones that exist in your world. 
Thank God I don't have to live in your world. It would be very mentally limited place.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Now you are into conspiracy theories. Oh brother.


soloweygor;
and you are on what?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitry
> I too have graduated from leaning on a Crutch to becoming independent.


Hey Huck! :mrgreen:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am beginning to wonder if the people we are talking to understand that there is a difference between securities and commercial banking.
> After all, someone thought the other day that Dodd-Frank was in place prior to the bubble imploding.
> It's the only reason I can think of for there being hours of talking at cross purposes.


Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You are just assuming it is a racist thing with the store clerk. You know nothing about her or the way she interacts with people, past or present. She is white, so by not showing a black customer the bag, she is automatically a racist.
> 
> The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.


Can you provide some logical reason for a person refusing to show a potential customer, or even an obvious browser, merchandise?
I have been in plenty of shops that I really couldn't afford to buy anything in unless it was on the clearance rack. Staff may not have fallen all over me, at the same time they didn't ignore any request.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


Gee, you should pull up the old posts of one of your bud's who tried to blame Dodd-Frank for the collapse of the economy. 
I know when Dodd-Frank was voted in, I lobbied against it.

Please, if you are not going to be bothered reading what is said, think twice before you respond.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Wow! Those shoes are one of the finest examples of desecrating the American flag I've seen in a long time. It's not supposed to touch the ground, and here you are walking on it. Oh, wait,maybe you're making a statement. That falls under the 1st Amendment. Lucjy for you. :hunf: :hunf:


How is Gali's avatar any different in desecrating the American Flag as was displayed by your friends over the summer?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> How is Gali's avatar any different in desecrating the American Flag as was displayed by your friends over the summer?


Why don't you show us what it was?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Well the flag code of the United States does leave the impression that it is in poor taste, or rather outright says it.
> 
> http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30243.pdf


You, know, there is probably no actual correlation between Liberals who read and comprehend that which they read and Liberals who read and do not comprehend what they read. However, you certainly fall into the 2nd category like so many on this thread. Sigh  I shall never figure that out.

The Flag code you posted *does not * leave an impression nor does it outright state that wearing a facsimile of "the" Flag is in poor taste.

The Flag Code is explicit in the use of the words "a" and "the" flag.

There is an obvious and distinct difference between taking an actual American Flag and fashioning a piece of apparel to wear than there is in buying fabric with an image of images of a American Flag on it, cutting pieces from it and fashioning the fabric into something to wear.

Said another way: don't wear "an" actual American Flag as your shirt but it perfectly acceptable to wear a shirt with an American Flag represented on that shirt.

The picture avatar used and being discussed was not an actual American Flag made into shoes. The shoes were made using stripes, stars, the colors and design you recognize from our Nation's Flag.

The Flag Code (while voluntary) states to not wear the American Flag nor advertise using an American Flag, "The Colors", or presumably somewhere within the Code it may be called Old Glory (both alternate names for The American Flag).

Not only is it patriotic to wear the colors of the our flag but also is not offense to the rules of regulations of the American Military. If it were, we would all take great offense to see Military Members wearing American Flag pins on their lapels, arm patches or using the colors of our Flag in ribbons on their uniforms, on the side of tanks and planes, etc.. I know of no American who does take such offense. Do you?

You can go to any Military Base Exchange and find thousands of items to purchase with images or the colors which represent the American Flag, yet none are of or made to be worn from an actual American Flag.

Actual American Flags are flown over the Capital and presented to deceased Veterans and other dignitaries as an honor of respect. No offense allowed there either.

This is so incredibly simple to understand and that fact you do not understand what you read in the Flag Code is frankly surprising especially because I learned last night you have family members who served or do serve in the American Uniformed Services. (I believe that was your point although I did not read the detail only skimmed some titles). If you have military service members in your family, give them my thanks please.

Read again the Flag Code you posted and pay particular attention to the words "an", "a" and "the" in regards to how to wear/display/honor _The American Flag_.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Nussa
> Her behavior is a sign of living a life in a vacuum.


This is rich. Here you are responding to Nussa's post about responding with nasty one liners with a nasty one liner.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> How is Gali's avatar any different in desecrating the American Flag as was displayed by your friends over the summer?


Probably not different at all except I don't remember very clearly what my "friends" did with the flag over the summer. I seem to remember avatars with the President's face and faces of other noteworthy people superimposed over the flag. Unfortunately, if they've since changed their avatars, I can't go back and see for myself what was done. Also unfortunately, anyone else's poor taste doesn't turn Gali's avatar into a tasteful one.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> See, what you are doing right there, is not discussing It's lashing out, and belittling. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when all you do is go back, read old posts, then sit for the next half hour coming back at each post with nasty oneliners?


How is anyone supposed to respond to you when all you do or have done is insult, belittle and lash out at anyone you decided you did not like.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> This is something we can agree on. It's your "friends" that are having difficultly in grasping that concept. Many Mom and Pop shops are small and are struggling week to week. Most of the liberals are lumping them in with the big bad businesses that do send their money out of the country. MC business owners don't share that luxury.


No, that's YOUR "friends" schtick.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


 :thumbup: Correct. Yet there is so much more that Clinton did along with his buds Dodd-Frank and that self-named legislation did to begin the housing and subsequent crash of Wall Street and our base economy it could never be properly discussed unless months were dedicated solely to that topic.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


That's not what Dodd-Frank was about. It's about accountability and consumer protection. Only hypocrites or imbiciles would whine about the damage that the LACK of accountability caused our economy and then find fault when that very accountability is put in place.

The only problem with Dodd-Frank is that it's _not enough_ to prevent another financial crisis or more "bail outs". And that is only because conservatives didn't allow it to go far enough.

And the lack of investment capital unavailable is the direct ramification to Bush's financial crisis of 2008.

And the "sluggishness" of the recovery is in direct relation to how deep the damage is that almost 30 years of trickle down-voodoo economics/Reaganomics caused.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Hey! Here's a great idea. Let's get rid of regulations for businesses. And eliminate the Environmental Protection Agency That way, maybe we can have more of this:

*West Virginia chemical spill company was exempt from EPA inspections* 
http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/16321999-west-virginia-chemical-spill-company-was-exempt-from-epa-inspections

That would give us many more FREEDOMS:



> *Freedom Industry* By Aaron Bady
> 
> Gary Southern has had a long day. Freedom means this matters. Gary Southern is thirsty. Freedom means he has water. Human beings need water, constantly, always, and desperately. Without water, people die. Without water to wash in, people become dirty hillbillies, whose water can be poisoned. Freedom means you can tell nine counties in West Virginia not to use their water for a while, not if they want to not drink and wash in poison.
> 
> ...


Ahhhhh, Freedom. In West Virginia these days, it smells quite a bit like licorice.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Gee, you should pull up the old posts of one of your bud's who tried to blame Dodd-Frank for the collapse of the economy.


I was the person who mentioned Dodd-Frank and to quote your recent words posted minutes age, (changed 'liberals' to 'I' and grammar)



Janet Cooke said:


> You have no idea what * I,* who posts here, think


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And we know they are not educated. And you are so correct. The uneducated here ridicule.


Just what do YOU do LL? Do you ever have an original thought, idea or something pertinent to add? Why are you on this forum? Do you just cheer lead for the RWWN?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The educated, who apparently hold themselves superior due to the circumstances of their births, riducule while pretending they don't.
> I guess that makes them mean *and* liars.


"The educated, who apparently hold themselves superior due to circumstances of their birth..."

What does that mean? That educated people are educated because of the circumstances of their birth??? I have no idea what you mean. There are a lot of people out there who came from uneducated, low-income environments. They now hold important positions and make a lot of money. As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens.

Getting back to what you said... it sounds crazy to me. It also sounds like you resent people with education. Which only tells me you are not. No wonder I do not relate to you. You would never be anyone who I would associate with.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> This is rich. Here you are responding to Nussa's post about responding with nasty one liners with a nasty one liner.


 :XD: The circle is complete.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Also unfortunately, anyone else's poor taste doesn't turn Gali's avatar into a tasteful one.


How unfortunate your ignorance about the American Flag doesn't turn you into someone with intellectual understanding and good taste.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> That's not what Dodd-Frank was about. It's about accountability and consumer protection. Only hypocrites or imbiciles would whine about the damage that the LACK of accountability caused our economy and then find fault when that very accountability is put in place.
> 
> The only problem with Dodd-Frank is that it's _not enough_ to prevent another financial crisis or more "bail outs". And that is only because conservatives didn't allow it to go far enough.
> 
> ...


Let the whining begin, oh, wait, it is pouring out already with this post . does that make you a hypocrite or an imbecile (I think that is the term you meant 'cause I don't know what imbiciles are), or both? It appears you have no idea what Dodd-Frank was about or how it impacted our economy. Bottoms Up Cheeks!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> "The educated, who apparently hold themselves superior due to circumstances of their birth..."
> 
> What does that mean? That educated people are educated because of the circumstances of their birth??? I have no idea what you mean. There are a lot of people out there who came from uneducated, low-income environments. They now hold important positions and make a lot of money. As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens.
> 
> Getting back to what you said... it sounds crazy to me. It also sounds like you resent people with education. Which only tells me you are not. No wonder I do not relate to you. You would never be anyone who I would associate with.


Sounds crazy to me too! Be proud and glad you choose not to associate with her. Wise decision.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Let the whining begin, oh, wait, it is pouring out already with this post .


No whining. Just accurately paying attention to history instead of falsely revising it.

You can't fix problems unless you understand where things went wrong.

It's just stupid to try and re-institute the very policies that nearly collapsed our economy (_trickle down economics_), and lack of consumer protections.

Dodd-Frank is far from perfect, but at the very least it identifies and acknowledges where things went wrong, which was lack of accountability and insufficient consumer protections. At least it starts in the right place and heads us in the right direction.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are just assuming it is a racist thing with the store clerk. You know nothing about her or the way she interacts with people, past or present. She is white, so by not showing a black customer the bag, she is automatically a racist.


It's totally unnecessary to know anything about her beyond what is known. What other reason could there be for denying someone the privilege of handling the merchandise than to assume they can't afford it anyway. Black people have been racially profiled and mistreated in some of the better stores in NYC lately, and a similar thing happened to Oprah as well based on the same assumptions. No mystery about what happened and why.



> The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.


Of course it would've been a NON-ISSUE. No one would've known about it at all. This is akin to the idea, "Hey, let's stop noticing and talking about race and racism," as if that will cause it to stop being a problem. No, that merely makes it invisible to those who don't care and don't want to be called on their racist ways. Not talking about it any more causes it to disappear, and not in a good way or for the right reasons. You think Oprah had no right to mention her treatment and criticize her for doing so. All of that is racism.

I know you didn't read it, and may not read it now, but this is an especially potent -- and applicable -- excerpt from that article on racism I posted the other day.



> The problem is that white people see racism as conscious hate, when racism is bigger than that. Racism is a complex system of social and political levers and pulleys set up generations ago to continue working on the behalf of whites at other peoples expense, whether whites know/like it or not. When we see Phil Robertson talking about how happy black people were in the South during a period of time that we all KNOW was politically ratchet for black people, we can all go, Yeah, black people werent really happy about that, and its racist of you to suggest that discrimination wasnt bad.
> 
> ... Yet when we hear about big picture stuff like the disproportionate ratio of blacks in prisons, something short circuits in white folks. Suddenly there are plenty of other reasons why these things might play out that way. *Folks, thats racism too, both the statistic as well as your denial that there might be anything racial about it.*
> http://scottwoodsmakeslists.wordpress.com/2014/01/03/5-things-no-one-is-actually-saying-about-ani-difranco-or-plantations/


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> you have no idea what Dodd-Frank was about or how it impacted our economy. Bottoms Up Cheeks!


Anyone who thinks it was designed to attempt to "_fix the housing crisis_" knows absolutely NOTHING about what it was about. So that puts me WAYYYYY ahead of your ilk in knowledge about it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> No whining. Just accurately paying attention to history instead of falsely revising it.
> 
> You can't fix problems unless you understand where things went wrong.
> 
> ...


Again, what you describe when referring to DF is not accurate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Anyone who thinks it was designed to attempt to "_fix the housing crisis_" knows absolutely NOTHING about what it was about. So that puts me WAYYYYY ahead of your ilk in knowledge about it.


I never said DF was designed to attempt to fix the housing crisis.

Only imbiciles say _that._ DF had very little to do with housing BTW.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Sounds crazy to me too! Be proud and glad you choose not to associate with her. Wise decision.


I guess you and I are both educated...


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

knitry said:


> > The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.
> 
> 
> Of course it would've been a NON-ISSUE. No one would've known about it at all. This is akin to the idea, "Hey, let's stop noticing and talking about race and racism," as if that will cause it to stop being a problem. No, that merely makes it invisible to those who don't care and don't want to be called on their racist ways. Not talking about it any more causes it to disappear, and not in a good way or for the right reasons. You think Oprah had no right to mention her treatment and criticize her for doing so. All of that is racism.
> ...


Well, let's face it. This is how racists talk.

What's she's really saying is that if blacks (even if it's Oprah) just kept their mouths shut and didn't point out racism, "we whites" wouldn't get so upset about it.

What makes her think that when Oprah experiences racism, she's supposed to keep her mouth shut about it? Oher than white people just wish black people would shut the heck up and go away. Blacks should be seen and not heard. Don't be so "uppity" as to point out instances of racism and be thankful for the crumbs that white people throw them.

It's a racist attitude, how DARE Oprah, who we've ALLOWED to make so much money, get so uppity as to complain about a store clerk! She's gotten too uppity for her own good!

I ESPECIALLY love the idea that if Oprah never mentioned it... it would be a "non-issue". Riiiiight. So the hundreds of thousands of blacks (if not millions) who experience similar racism to this AS A DAILY EXPERIENCE, ... it would just be a non-issue if Oprah never mentioned it!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I guess you and I are both educated...


I guess so! :-D

I like the sound of "im-bic-e-lees though"! (Vocal Lisa's word: imbiciles)


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You, know, there is probably no actual correlation between Liberals who read and comprehend that which they read and Liberals who read and do not comprehend what they read. However, you certainly fall into the 2nd category like so many on this thread. Sigh  I shall never figure that out.
> 
> The Flag code you posted *does not * leave an impression nor does it outright state that wearing a facsimile of "the" Flag is in poor taste.
> 
> ...


I am not at all surprised that a person who does such a wonderful job at affecting pseudo patriotism would misinterpret that passage.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I guess so! :-D
> 
> I like the sound of "im-bic-e-lees though"! (Vocal Lisa's word: imbiciles)


Yes indeed, mean and lying. 
I can't help but wonder if LL wants people on the board to begin pointing out spelling errors and lack of knowledge in using a keyboard.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I guess so! :-D
> 
> I like the sound of "im-bic-e-lees though"! (Vocal Lisa's word: imbiciles)


Not my word. Just your average 3rd grade vocabulary word. Why? Does it seem like a "fancy" word to you?


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not at all surprised that a person who does such a wonderful job at affecting pseudo patriotism would misinterpret that passage.


Nope. They do similar things with the U.S. Constitution and the bible as well. Twist the meanings of passages to fit their prejudices. Cherry-picking while willfully ignoring context etc...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I guess so! :-D
> 
> I like the sound of "im-bic-e-lees though"! (Vocal Lisa's word: imbiciles)


I think if I met this person, I would try to get away as soon as possible. I would be repulsed immediately if I was in the same physical vicinity.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Again, what you describe when referring to DF is not accurate.


you left out ...IMHO.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes indeed, mean and lying.
> I can't help but wonder if LL wants people on the board to begin pointing out spelling errors and lack of knowledge in using a keyboard.


If there are any errors, it is because I do not care to correct them. I'd be happy for you to point out one error.

Go ahead - show me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> If there are any errors, it is because I do not care to correct them. I'd be happy for you to point out one error.
> 
> Go ahead - show me.


Thanks for the directive, I think I will just wait for the next one, two, three...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for the directive, I think I will just wait for the next one, two, three...


Ha, ha. Can't find one, can you? What a cop out. You wouldn't know the difference!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I think if I met this person, I would try to get away as soon as possible. I would be repulsed immediately if I was in the same physical vicinity.


She lives in MN; avoid that state and all racists and you'll be fine.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She lives in MN; avoid that state and all racists and you'll be fine.


Thanks. I am relieved! Will never go there.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, let's face it. This is how racists talk.
> 
> What's she's really saying is that if blacks (even if it's Oprah) just kept their mouths shut and didn't point out racism, "we whites" wouldn't get so upset about it.
> 
> ...


Remember how many white people rioted after OJ Simpson's acquittal? Yah, me neither.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Remember how many white people rioted after OJ Simpson's acquittal? Yah, me neither.


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You, know, there is probably no actual correlation between Liberals who read and comprehend that which they read and Liberals who read and do not comprehend what they read. However, you certainly fall into the 2nd category like so many on this thread. Sigh  I shall never figure that out.
> 
> The Flag code you posted *does not * leave an impression nor does it outright state that wearing a facsimile of "the" Flag is in poor taste.
> 
> ...


OK, let's drop the use of the word "desecration". I used it because I *personally* consider many uses of the image of the flag to be forms of desecration.

But, read the Flag Code again yourself (words in bold print formatted by me):
The Flag Code addresses the impropriety of using *the* flag as an article of personal adornment, *a design on items of temporary use, and item of clothing*. The evident purpose of these suggested restraints is to limit the commercial or common usage of the flag and, thus, maintain its dignity. *The 1976 amendments to the Code recognized the wearing of a flag patch or pin on the left side (near the heart) of uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.* The Code also states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. While wearing the colors may be in poor taste and offensive to many, it is important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. It is, at least, questionable whether statutes placing civil or criminal penalties on the wearing of clothing bearing or resembling a flag could be constitutionally enforced in light of Supreme Court decisions in the area of flag desecration.

In the past, the Supreme Court has held that states may restrict use of pictures of the flag on commercial products. There is a federal criminal prohibition on the use of the flag for advertising purposes in the District of Columbia. While commercial speech does not receive the full protection of the First Amendment, the status of these statutes and cases can not be taken for granted 

It looks to me that all those coffee mugs with pictures of the flag on them are in poor taste as they are "*a design on items of temporary use, and item of clothing*"

This from the Code seems to cover what you had to say about wearing lapel pins" "The 1976 amendments to the Code recognized the wearing of a flag patch or pin on the left side (near the heart) of uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations."

Here's where you went astray.The Flag Code addresses the impropriety of using *the* flag as *an* article of personal adornment, *a design on items of temporary use, and item of clothing*." Yes, this addresses turning *THE* flag into a shirt or something else and wearing it. It also addresses using *A DESIGN* of the flag. Seems to me that shoes are pretty temporary.

*Your reading is at fault. You misunderstood what you read about using a design of the flag. You've gotten your "the"s and "a"s mixed up.*

I'm not even going to bother to address the idea that military medals and ribbons appear with the colors of the flag, except to say that *what colors do you thing our country's military medals and ribbons use? The orange, white and green of India?* I'm sure the Flag Code and several military codes address the issue of using the colors on military medals and ribbons. You can go find them.

Ah, here I have responded to you and contradicted you. I'm definitely having an extended senior moment. You needn't bother to disabuse me of what you will say are all my errors in my response here. Everyone else, please forgive me for this post. It's the day of rest. Apparently, my brain is taking a huge rest.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Not my word. Just your average 3rd grade vocabulary word. Why? Does it seem like a "fancy" word to you?


It seems like not a word at all to me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Just what do YOU do LL? Do you ever have an original thought, idea or something pertinent to add? Why are you on this forum? Do you just cheer lead for the RWWN?


Hey, Rocky. Long time, no see.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I agree with what you said KGP. What we were blamed for and called names for do not understand. It works both ways, name calling is a all that is going on on this site. To think that you have the ability to know everything and for those to worry and get carry away is a wonder to me.
> 
> Don't know if you ladies remember posting a picture which you said was KGP or how you know her web site which she uses to sell her products. How about the one who said she found KGP on facebook? I wonder if you all remember that one of you put my name (first name) on this site? You could have only gotten it from reading back post like you are accusing KGP LTL of doing?
> As to spelling some of you have forgotten how you went after me about the same thing.It was cruel and you know it was.
> ...


Yarnie, I would like to apologize for what was said to you. I was sure that you were not using jelun's real name, but I didn't send her a message about it because I was trying to knit and read and I didn't take you seriously enough.

I know you have a good heart and would not go out of your way to do harm to anyone. I wish I could think the same of the other people you hang with on KP.

By the way, I think you're mistaken about Christie being a nice person. The first time I ever saw him (on TV) was during a press conference when a teacher sitting in the front row asked him a question. While he answered her, he decided to take off his jacket. Then he turned his back to her and while putting his jacket over a chair leaned over so much that his rear was practically touching her face. He stayed in that position a lot longer than was necessary. I understand that he often does things like that to people who don't agree with him. I would call it disgusting, not nice.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I think if I met this person, I would try to get away as soon as possible. I would be repulsed immediately if I was in the same physical vicinity.


Then we could have a party to celebrate your absence.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How is anyone supposed to respond to you when all you do or have done is insult, belittle and lash out at anyone you decided you did not like.


I don't dislike anyone. I'm not one of those people who hate, just for the sake of it. In that last sentence I am refering to you, and I guess your friends. I've said it before. You people baffle me with the anger and absolute hate you show twords others, for no other reason than when you say white & we say blue. Then the fight is on. How dare we even presume to think blue, when you have dictated to us it is white? It's bullying clear and simple.

The name of this thread is Obamacare. You and your friends hate and despise ACA, and want it and the President to dissapear from the face of the earth. You have made no secret of that. It's that kind of illogic thinking that makes no sense to me. I don't understand people who cannot control their emotions. People who are so full of hate, that it spills over into every other aspect of their lives. Yet you insist on calling yourselves Christians. No Christian I know would act the way you do. 
You can call me what ever you like. But as long as I use logic to express myself, nothing you say can make me a bad person. 
I don't have that hate in my heart that you spew from yours. 
So it goes....


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, let's drop the use of the word "desecration". I used it because I *personally* consider many uses of the image of the flag to be forms of desecration.
> 
> But, read the Flag Code again yourself (words in bold print formatted by me):
> The Flag Code addresses the impropriety of using *the* flag as an article of personal adornment, *a design on items of temporary use, and item of clothing*. The evident purpose of these suggested restraints is to limit the commercial or common usage of the flag and, thus, maintain its dignity. *The 1976 amendments to the Code recognized the wearing of a flag patch or pin on the left side (near the heart) of uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.* The Code also states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever.
> ...


*Your reading is faulty*. The Code says not to use *THE actual Flag* as a article of clothing, COMMA, meaning understood to also not use *THE actual Flag* as a design, nor *THE ACTUAL FLAG* in temporary use. etc.

The comma punctuates a list or series of ways NOT to use AN ACTUAL FLAG.

I stopped reading after your first ignorant sentence as you are not worthy of my time explaining simple sentence structure and meaning to you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Remember how many white people rioted after OJ Simpson's acquittal? Yah, me neither.


So happy to see that you are not a racist.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol:


Your friend seems to be playing that race card again!!! And you somehow find that funny? I find it pathetic.
So this is the kind of person you want to follow?
You are such good Christian women.....Not at all.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> If there are any errors, it is because I do not care to correct them. I'd be happy for you to point out one error.
> 
> Go ahead - show me.


I will say it again, you are so easily suckered in. Sometimes it's better if you just let it go.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have to ask you all, why are we allowing this woman to control the conversation, such as it is, this way? 
I have had about enough of the foolish tit for tat. 
Is this really the way you want to spend your time? Really?
Being manipulated by the likes of KnitPresentgift is really the way you want to interact in your precious spare time?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I don't dislike anyone. I'm not one of those people who hate, just for the sake of it. In that last sentence I am refering to you, and I guess your friends. I've said it before. You people baffle me with the anger and absolute hate you show twords others, for no other reason than when you say white & we say blue. Then the fight is on. How dare we even presume to think blue, when you have dictated to us it is white? It's bullying clear and simple.
> 
> The name of this thread is Obamacare. You and your friends hate and despise ACA, and want it and the President to dissapear from the face of the earth. You have made no secret of that. It's that kind of illogic thinking that makes no sense to me. I don't understand people who cannot control their emotions. People who are so full of hate, that it spills over into every other aspect of their lives. Yet you insist on calling yourselves Christians. No Christian I know would act the way you do.
> You can call me what ever you like. But as long as I use logic to express myself, nothing you say can make me a bad person.
> ...


Don't you wonder why when you did a shout out recently to take a tally of how many of your Liberal buds believe you or I to be the Liar of the Year on KP, that *not one* of your Liberal buddies responded showing support for you by voting for me rather than you?

You have earned, like Obama did, the *2013 Liar of the Year* title.

Here are a few of your very first posts or excepts to those not of the Liberal political or admitted political party that you support. Remember, these were * your * first unsolicited posts to mainly Conservatives on KP.

Nothing is edited unless for shortening your rude comments or for spelling errors. All are available to anyone bothering to look them up as I did.

1st post to a Conservative Jan 28, 2013 Smoking/Obamacare thread 

Nussa wrote: No more politics please.

Jan 29 1st post response to a Conservative Smoking/Obamacare thread

Nussa wrote: Thumper5316, we had to put up with G.W. Bush for two terms, now its your turn. Please try to do it graciously.

Jan 29 again to Thumper after posts from Alcameron: 

Nussa: I vehemently disliked the Bush years .... But I was respectful about it. I dont see that from you. Show some respect for your country ... Just Saying!

Jan 29 

Nussa: Why do some folks on here feel the need to get so hateful and nasty with people that dont agree with their point of view ... good lord. The sky is not falling and you will survive 4 more years ...

You win ... You are dead set on Obama bashing... Just wanted to make sure thats what it was. You proved it for all of us ... Good luck to you ... Take a deep breath ...dont have a stroke.

Jan 30 

Nussa: I have attacked no one. I called no one names.

Feb 3 response to several Conservative posters:

Nussa: Are you all mad because others are getting government assistance and you cant get any? Have you tried to get on disability and couldnt? And now resent (sic) the system? How many of you HAVE jobs? I figured since so many of you seem to be here bashing the system all day, you are only offline long enough to eat & sleep. And if you dont have jobs, how can you afford computers and the internet? Or do you just plain like to argue? If you dont like our country, you are perfectly free to move to another. Now let the bashing begin ...

 Feb 3 to RUKnitting

Nussa: You can be snotty all you like. Now how about making some sense for a change?

 Jul 29 referring to Courier770 

Nussa: I dont know what possesses anyone to start topics that cause dissension amongst other in the KP forum. Surly she has better things to do with her time than stir up trouble.

Short Quiz thread Aug 13 to Janeway

Nussa: Unfortunately Janeway and many others, who Im assuming are Republicans, have been in a snit since Obama got into office almost 5 yrs ago. And I for one am still amazed at how bitter you all are.

But you do seem to have a bit of an anger issue when it comes to these discussions. I suggest you just ignore what I have to say, as thats what I intend to do with your negative opinions of me.

Sep 8 Outrageous Political thread

Nussa: Why would someone named PEACEGODDESS ask a political question???? It certainly wont promote peace.

First post to LukeLucy after LL posted an article from the Wall Street Journal on Obamacare thread Oct 24, 2013

Nussa: If you keep going on with this tit for tat day after day, youre going to end up giving yourself a heart attack, then you will need ACA.

Obamacare thread Oct 23

Nussa: I see we have gotten down to the Lunatic Fringe.

Obamacare #2 thread Oct 25

Nussa: 107 pages, and still beating that dead horse I see. Tisk-Tisk

Obamacare #2 thread Oct 13 to Country Bumpkin

Nussa: First: Dont call me a leftie, rightie, Dem or Rep ... or any of the other so called political monickers you place on people who dont agree with you. You can keep those snide remarks to yourself. Its a sign of a childish mind.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Ha, ha. Can't find one, can you? What a cop out. You wouldn't know the difference!


Please, I'm begging you....I'm trying to save you from looking stupid. What you just said was so childish. Did you know, if you don't post things like that, people can't think you are stupid. 
And have you ever noticed that when you do post those things, none of your friends ever give you a thumbs up, or any kind of, well you sure shoed them remark. And you know why that is? It's because they are to ashamed to. You don't have to follow a crowd you know. You can be your own person.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Galinipper seems to think her shoes aren't in poor taste. I happen to think they are. An expert on the Flag Code would probably think those shoes are in poor taste. There are probably as many definitions of "poor taste" as there are people in this country old enough to express themselves.
> 
> Here I am remarking on someone's shoes.     It must be time for me to head out to the kitfchen and make some pancakes. :thumbup:


I would say the flag on a pair of hooker shoes is in poor taste. If it's okay on shoes, why not on thongs (and I don't mean the kind you wear on your feet)?

I'm sure your pancakes are in very good taste, and very good-tasting, too.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Please, I'm begging you....I'm trying to save you from looking stupid. What you just said was so childish.


>>>>> See post above with your own words.


Nussa said:


> If you don't post things like that, people can't think you are stupid.


>>>>>See post above with your own words.



Nussa said:


> And have you ever noticed that when you do post those things, none of your friends ever give you a thumbs up, or any kind of, well you sure shoed them remark. And you know why that is? It's because they are to ashamed to. You don't have to follow a crowd you know. You can be your own person.


>>>> See post above and ask yourself why your Liberal gang members never gave you any support, not one of them, when you asked them if you were a Liar or not.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> >>>> See post above and ask yourself why your Liberal gang members never gave you any support, not one of them, when you asked them if you were a Liar or not.


That is pretty funny coming from a woman who was asked the same thing just a few hours ago and suggested, in a rather offensive way, that perhaps the conversation was taking place on another venue. 
Kindly refer to your own wisdom.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I suppose that has been replaced with sitting on one's ass is hard work and we should just hand the people money so they can become successful. We will also make every excuse for them as well on their journey to success.


If, as LL wrote, " The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy," what chance does anyone have who isn't wealthy? Why not just hand them money so they, too, can create wealth?

Of course, I'm kidding here because LL's statement is nonsense. But what you people seem to forget is that there's a condition between wealth and, as you so daintily put it, sitting on one's ass. People do work hard, and the ones who work hardest at physical labor are often the ones paid least. And don't bring up education, training, all the great things you tell other people to do to improve their lives. Not everyone is a good student, but everyone deserves a living wage. Not everyone has time for education because they're working multiple jobs - with a living wage they could find the free time to go to school. Not everyone is young enough to retrain for different kinds of work - after 40 or even 50 years of working at one job, what more would you expect (and sure, after 50 years they must be getting SS, but do you know what that pays? Hardly enough to live on, esp. if you don't get the max.).

I know you people don't like to hear about the poor and insist they're all lazy (and KPG seems to think the word "poor" is an insult or a curse), but they are all over, and if you don't want to have to step over their bodies in the street, you'd better consider giving them more to live on.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't you wonder why when you did a shout out recently to take a tally of how many Liberals buds believe I or you to be the Liar of the Year on KP, that *not one* of your Liberal buddies responded in support of you?
> 
> You have earned, like Obama did, the *2013 Liar of the Year* title.
> 
> ...


That's it????? That's all you have? You went through all those posts, only to find that I was constanly asking why you all were so agnry all the time? If you see nasty or mean or anything other than logic in what I said, you really don't know what logic is. My posts come off sounding like poetry compared to yours. 
Again I will say....LAME, REALLY LAME!!!!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If, as LL wrote, " The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy," what chance does anyone have who isn't wealthy? Why not just hand them money so they, too, can create wealth?
> 
> Of course, I'm kidding here because LL's statement is nonsense. But what you people seem to forget is that there's a condition between wealth and, as you so daintily put it, sitting on one's ass. People do work hard, and the ones who work hardest at physical labor are often the ones paid least. And don't bring up education, training, all the great things you tell other people to do to improve their lives. Not everyone is a good student, but everyone deserves a living wage. Not everyone has time for education because they're working multiple jobs - with a living wage they could find the free time to go to school. Not everyone is young enough to retrain for different kinds of work - after 40 or even 50 years of working at one job, what more would you expect (and sure, after 50 years they must be getting SS, but do you know what that pays? Hardly enough to live on, esp. if you don't get the max.).
> 
> I know you people don't like to hear about the poor and insist they're all lazy (and KPG seems to think the word "poor" is an insult or a curse), but they are all over, and if you don't want to have to step over their bodies in the street, you'd better consider giving them more to live on.


Well put.........It's like they think they can catch being poor if they get to close to someone who is poor. And I don't believe for a minute any one of them is rich. They may have more money than some, and less than others. Having less money doesn't make you a bad person, just like having more money makes you some kind of saint. 
Like 'veI said about them before, when it comes to this subject, and anything to do with ACA & President Obama, all logic goes out the window.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> >>>> See post above and ask yourself why your Liberal gang members never gave you any support, not one of them, when you asked them if you were a Liar or not.


It looks to me like I care more about what happens to Lukelucy than you do. And you are supposed to be her friend. I try to save her from saying things that come off sounding dumb, and you encourage her to say them. You are a sorry excuse for a friend.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The flaw in your "logic" is that you are not better educated. Your (collective) purpose is not to educate, but to ridicule.


How do you know how educated she is or is not?

Actually, our collective purpose (okay, this is only my guess based on my purpose) has been to catch the lies being thrown around about Obamacare and to correct them. People reading this thread deserve to hear the truth.

The fact that you say things to us like what you said above, or


> "As soon as I realized (long ago) how stupid the Libs are on these threads, I first offered some truths and info I have knowledge or expertise in on particular topics. I've since learned they are unteachable but provide amazing entertainment if you can remain long enough on your chair from laughing at them. Bless their empty heads


makes it hard for us to take you seriously. If someone's called "stupid" or "mentally disabled" for correcting what one of you wrongly thinks is correct, what kind of response could you expect?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Hey, Rocky. Long time, no see.


I started this forum. Why are YOU here.

You are not a nice person.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Response to Nussa:


knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't you wonder why when you did a shout out recently to take a tally of how many of your Liberal buds believe you or I to be the Liar of the Year on KP, that *not one* of your Liberal buddies responded showing support for you by voting for me rather than you?


Oh, no no no no no. Nosirreee. No, ma'am!! Nope.

You are not safe in interpreting the lack of responses in that way. Speaking for myself, though suspecting others would agree, you're absolutely 100% wrong, My lack of response meant nothing of the kind. In fact, it meant NOTHING, quite literally. I got distracted and failed to respond, period, and there's absolutely no inference you can draw that has any legitimacy whatsoever.

It's not the first thing you've jumped to thoroughly incorrect conclusions about either. I'm not really following the flag flap, but after a quick skim of one of your posts just now on the subject, uhhhh, I think you've got it wrong. But who cares? Par for the course AFAIC. And not worth my time to discuss


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, let's face it. This is how racists talk.
> 
> What's she's really saying is that if blacks (even if it's Oprah) just kept their mouths shut and didn't point out racism, "we whites" wouldn't get so upset about it.
> 
> ...


Exquisitely said, every single word. Thanks.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Then we could have a party to celebrate your absence.


Janet, I cannot relate to you because of your lack of education and also the fact that you are not a nice person. I will not respond to you again. There is something wrong with you.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Remember how many white people rioted after OJ Simpson's acquittal? Yah, me neither.


I'm trying to figure out how the heck you think that's got anything to do with anything?? What relevance it could possible have? To ANYthing?

Care to explain? 'Cause obviously I'm too stupid to get it. Why not enlighten me?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And we know they are not educated. And you are so correct. The uneducated here ridicule.


I offered to stop being mean to you if you would stop making rude remarks. But apparently you can't help yourself.

You know nothing about how educated people behave, because you know almost nothing about any subject. The only original thought I've seen from you was that KPG is a "great" person, which I can't even imagine how to interpret.

Now go and ask someone smarter than you to explain this message to you.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Please, I'm begging you....I'm trying to save you from looking stupid. What you just said was so childish. Did you know, if you don't post things like that, people can't think you are stupid.
> And have you ever noticed that when you do post those things, none of your friends ever give you a thumbs up, or any kind of, well you sure shoed them remark. And you know why that is? It's because they are to ashamed to. You don't have to follow a crowd you know. You can be your own person.


I am begging you. The above applies to you. I will not read your posts again.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I started this forum. Why are YOU here.
> 
> You are not a nice person.


Honestly, it doesn't matter who posted the first, the third, or the thirtieth post. 
The thread and it's content is that of the owner of the website.
There is also not a requirement that anyone be nice, your presence here makes that obvious.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I offered to stop being mean to you if you would stop making rude remarks. But apparently you can't help yourself.
> 
> You know nothing about how educated people behave, because you know almost nothing about any subject. The only original thought I've seen from you was that KPG is a "great" person, which I can't even imagine how to interpret.
> 
> Now go and ask someone smarter than you to explain this message to you.


This is the last post of yours I will read.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

This thread should have been called, Obamacare...If you don't hate ACA and President Obama and his family, then don't bother to post on this site.

I've always understood that people open a thread to find out others thoughts on the subject. But not in this one I guess. Looks like they got more than they bargened for. Look how many times we've been asked to leave.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> See, what you are doing right there, is not discussing It's lashing out, and belittling. How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when all you do is go back, read old posts, then sit for the next half hour coming back at each post with nasty oneliners?


Oops, you beat me to it.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well put.........It's like they think they can catch being poor if they get to close to someone who is poor. And I don't believe for a minute any one of them is rich. They may have more money than some, and less than others. Having less money doesn't make you a bad person, just like having more money makes you some kind of saint. .


We don't know how much money any of them have, but we do know this:

* they ain't willing to share -- esp. via taxes!!
* they're holding on tight to every penny
* they think they got what they've got all by themselves with no help from anybody or any thing

I'd like to tell them this:

*If you don't want to pay taxes, fine. Please stop using anything that was paid for with taxpayer money.*


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Janet, I cannot relate to you because of your lack of education and also the fact that you are not a nice person. I will not respond to you again. There is something wrong with you.


There are many things wrong with you, when I have some free time I will enumerate them for you. 
To claim that you cannot communicate with someone who lacks education would be one. 
That you accepted that apology from Poor Purl would be another, because you KNOW what you were doing. She may be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for some odd reason, but, you know that you were taunting. 
So dearie, in the world of people who are not nice, you are planes and planes and planes above me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


Dodd-Frank could have been passed in 1910, but until it went into effect, it could have no effect on the economy. And it still hasn't gone into effect: Deadline issues[edit]
"As of the beginning of June 2013, 175 of 279 passed Dodd-Frank deadlines have been missed, while only 104 deadlines have been met with finalized rules. Of the 398 total Dodd-Frank rulemaking requirements, regulators have missed 70.1 percent of rulemaking deadlines and 99.6 percent of 280 rules with specified deadlines. Regulators have yet to release proposals for 64 of the 175 missed rules." (Wikipedia)

And why haven't regulators been meeting deadlines? Because the GOP has been working very hard to keep them from moving ahead - in fact, to keep them from being hired in the first place.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I started this forum.


Forum? Really? You're the founder of Knitting Paradise? I've always wondered who it was. I think it's a great site in many ways and am especially impressed with some of the things the software does.

But I'd sure like to see the basic colors of the place changed. This puke green is an unattractive color to start with, I think, and I've grown really tired of it as well. Whadya think? Reasonable request? Should be relatively easy to do.

Thanks so much.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Probably not different at all except I don't remember very clearly what my "friends" did with the flag over the summer. I seem to remember avatars with the President's face and faces of other noteworthy people superimposed over the flag. Unfortunately, if they've since changed their avatars, I can't go back and see for myself what was done. Also unfortunately, anyone else's poor taste doesn't turn Gali's avatar into a tasteful one.


I bet someone keeps screen shots of this and many other threads. Maybe she could help out.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Then we could have a party to celebrate your absence.


Maybe you've heard this saying? "How can I miss you if you won't go away?"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Just what do YOU do LL? Do you ever have an original thought, idea or something pertinent to add? Why are you on this forum? Do you just cheer lead for the RWWN?


Yup. You got it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> *Your reading is faulty*. The Code says not to use *THE actual Flag* as a article of clothing, COMMA, meaning understood to also not use *THE actual Flag* as a design, nor *THE ACTUAL FLAG* in temporary use. etc.
> 
> The comma punctuates a list or series of ways NOT to use AN ACTUAL FLAG.
> 
> I stopped reading after your first ignorant sentence as you are not worthy of my time explaining simple sentence structure and meaning to you.


Well,your purity is firmly in place. The fact that you didn't understand what you read is also firmly in place. Thank goodness some things in this world are reliable. I hear tell that the sun still rises in the east and sets in the west, too.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> "The educated, who apparently hold themselves superior due to circumstances of their birth..."
> 
> What does that mean? That educated people are educated because of the circumstances of their birth??? I have no idea what you mean. There are a lot of people out there who came from uneducated, low-income environments. They now hold important positions and make a lot of money. As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens.
> 
> Getting back to what you said... it sounds crazy to me. It also sounds like you resent people with education. Which only tells me you are not. No wonder I do not relate to you. You would never be anyone who I would associate with.


Make up your mind. Do you believe what you said earlier, " The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy," or do you believe what you said above, "I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens"? Or do you believe what the last person you heard from told you to say?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Anyone who thinks it was designed to attempt to "_fix the housing crisis_" knows absolutely NOTHING about what it was about. So that puts me WAYYYYY ahead of your ilk in knowledge about it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have to ask you all, why are we allowing this woman to control the conversation, such as it is, this way?
> I have had about enough of the foolish tit for tat.
> Is this really the way you want to spend your time? Really?
> Being manipulated by the likes of KnitPresentgift is really the way you want to interact in your precious spare time?


 I confess, I was weak today. I even noticed it as it was happening and remembered that it was best to ignore her. I responded to KPG. I will do better in the future.    Honestly, I'm embarrassed.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I never said DF was designed to attempt to fix the housing crisis.
> 
> Only imbiciles say _that._ DF had very little to do with housing BTW.


It' not nice to call Soloweygirl an imbecile:


soloweygirl said:


> Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010 as this administration's attempt to fix the housing crisis. In large part, it is responsible for the economy's sluggish recovery, making investment capital unavailable to entrepreneurs and small business growth.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I confess, I was weak today. I even noticed it as it was happening and remembered that it was best to ignore her. I responded to KPG. I will do better in the future.    Honestly, I'm embarrassed.


Well, God knows you are in good company.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, God knows you are in good company.


I think I would rather be in bad company.:twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So happy to see that you are not a racist.


Yeah, me too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

If someone had just shared that those were Sarah Palin's shoes we would all understood the lack of taste, after all she has no education, either.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have to ask you all, why are we allowing this woman to control the conversation, such as it is, this way?
> I have had about enough of the foolish tit for tat.
> Is this really the way you want to spend your time? Really?
> Being manipulated by the likes of KnitPresentgift is really the way you want to interact in your precious spare time?


Not really, but she leaves herself open to so many funny responses, and her self-righteousness and inflated ego are a riot. That's why I've started reading her short messages again. I still can't stomach the long ones, with all the invective and bold type, but I did like the one where she called Solo an imbecile.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Please, I'm begging you....I'm trying to save you from looking stupid. What you just said was so childish. Did you know, if you don't post things like that, people can't think you are stupid.
> And have you ever noticed that when you do post those things, none of your friends ever give you a thumbs up, or any kind of, well you sure shoed them remark. And you know why that is? It's because they are to ashamed to. You don't have to follow a crowd you know. You can be your own person.


Wrong, Nussa. She does have to follow a crowd because she hasn't an original cell in her entire brain.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not really, but she leaves herself open to so many funny responses, and her self-righteousness and inflated ego are a riot. That's why I've started reading her short messages again. I still can't stomach the long ones, with all the invective and bold type, but I did like the one where she called Solo an imbecile.


Please don't make sense, it is giving me a headache. 
I will leave you to figure out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well put.........It's like they think they can catch being poor if they get to close to someone who is poor. And I don't believe for a minute any one of them is rich. They may have more money than some, and less than others. Having less money doesn't make you a bad person, just like having more money makes you some kind of saint.
> Like 'veI said about them before, when it comes to this subject, and anything to do with ACA & President Obama, all logic goes out the window.


Thanks.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> If someone had just shared that those were Sarah Palin's shoes we would all understood the lack of taste, after all she has no education, either.


 Oh, had I only known... Thank you very, very much for putting an end to anything I might have been tempted to say about those d****d shoes.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe you've heard this saying? "How can I miss you if you won't go away?"


Maybe we should just have a party anyway.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I started this forum. Why are YOU here.
> 
> You are not a nice person.


Unless you paid for it, anyone on KP is allowed here.

And I love it when you say "You are not a nice person." Your standards of niceness are so low for some people (on the right) and so high for others (on the left) that you're forever contradicting yourself.

Not to mention that you're not very nice yourself. You're insulting, which may make your friends like you but does _not_ make you nice.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe we should just have a party anyway.


Sounds good to me. An excellent reason for having a party is because you want to have one.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I chose that 15 out of the air really, I was reading a blog recently and that gentleman wrote of having 50 Tee Shirts.
> Sheesh. And yet, I bet that is the norm, or close to it. Why else do people need so much closet space?
> It is without a doubt, LKholcomb, much easier when one can get out on a whim or on sale days at the second hand places ...as well as when that first responsibility is no longer to provide the children with clothes.
> What a different world it is these days.


50 tee shirts! Holy cow! I don't think my kids have that many combined, and they have quite a few because they get hand me down a lot.

I need that much closet space, but it's more for my crafts


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> 50 tee shirts! Holy cow! I don't think my kids have that many combined, and they have quite a few because they get hand me down a lot.
> 
> I need that much closet space, but it's more for my crafts


A much better reason for needing closet space in my estimation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Response to Nussa:
> 
> Oh, no no no no no. Nosirreee. No, ma'am!! Nope.
> 
> ...


I believe I _did_ respond, so someone isn't careful when she reviews messages. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-227896-82.html#4615584


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That pretty much sums up the whole mindset, in addition to taking the effort and expending the "thought processes" to pull up posts from 24 hours ago ( I had best say approx. so I don't have to read the stupidity about timelines) in order to refuel what was over and done.


I pull up posts from 24 hours ago. Course it could be because it was my post that I was being attacked over. Funny thing, once I pulled up my original post to clarify to anybody reading that I didn't really say or do what was accused the attacks stops. Funny that, don't you think?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Janet, I cannot relate to you because of your lack of education and also the fact that you are not a nice person. I will not respond to you again. There is something wrong with you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am begging you. The above applies to you. I will not read your posts again.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You have no idea what the liberals who post here think, didn't you just posted today that Knitry is not worth your time?
> We do not lump "mom and pop"'s in with big business.
> However, let me clue you in on just one little thing. When I bought new product while I may have been dealing with companies lower on the food chain I was giving my funds indirectly to big business.
> Where do you think that merchandise comes from?


 :thumbup:

Funny that anybody would think I don't like small business owners when my grandfather had one as does my brother. I would never wish harm on them. Unfortunately a lot of big businesses are the reason that mom and pop shops close. Just watch what happens and how many businesses close when a Walmart moves into an area.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I believe I _did_ respond, so someone isn't careful when she reviews messages. http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-227896-82.html#4615584


GOOD point. That slipped by me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This is the last post of yours I will read.


But this probably is not the last post of yours I'll respond to. You won't stop being rude and nasty, but you think others should. Phooey on that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This is the last post of yours I will read.


and before I forget,


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> We don't know how much money any of them have, but we do know this:
> 
> * they ain't willing to share -- esp. via taxes!!
> * they're holding on tight to every penny
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There are many things wrong with you, when I have some free time I will enumerate them for you.
> To claim that you cannot communicate with someone who lacks education would be one.
> That you accepted that apology from Poor Purl would be another, because you KNOW what you were doing. She may be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for some odd reason, but, you know that you were taunting.
> So dearie, in the world of people who are not nice, you are planes and planes and planes above me.


(I was trying to stick to smilies from here on in, but you've forced me to use words.) Did I apologize to LL? I don't recall that. I know I admitted to KPG (believe it or not) that I was hard on LL and offered to let up if she stopped sending me rude messages, but she didn't, so I didn't.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There are many things wrong with you, when I have some free time I will enumerate them for you.
> To claim that you cannot communicate with someone who lacks education would be one.
> That you accepted that apology from Poor Purl would be another, because you KNOW what you were doing. She may be willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for some odd reason, but, you know that you were taunting.
> So dearie, in the world of people who are not nice, you are planes and planes and planes above me.


Oh, and 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You, know, there is probably no actual correlation between Liberals who read and comprehend that which they read and Liberals who read and do not comprehend what they read. However, you certainly fall into the 2nd category like so many on this thread. Sigh  I shall never figure that out.
> 
> The Flag code you posted *does not * leave an impression nor does it outright state that wearing a facsimile of "the" Flag is in poor taste.
> 
> ...


Quoted directly from page 17 of the code

"While wearing the * flag colors *may be in poor taste and offensive to others, it is important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely volunteer basis to insure proper respect for the flag."

Had you bothered to read the code you would have found a specific exemption for military personnel, firemen, policemen, ect on page 16.

I never said that it was against the law, we all get here that is is voluntary show of disrespect. My family members who served in the military would have been aghast at such disrespect. I know because two of them were horrified when shows of other disrespect were shown to the flag (as in "artistic" displays). Putting the flag on a pair of shoes is giving the message of stomping on the flag. I am by no means for idolatry of the flag, but outright shows of disrespect I am against.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Forum? Really? You're the founder of Knitting Paradise? I've always wondered who it was. I think it's a great site in many ways and am especially impressed with some of the things the software does.
> 
> But I'd sure like to see the basic colors of the place changed. This puke green is an unattractive color to start with, I think, and I've grown really tired of it as well. Whadya think? Reasonable request? Should be relatively easy to do.
> 
> Thanks so much.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I pull up posts from 24 hours ago. Course it could be because it was my post that I was being attacked over. Funny thing, once I pulled up my original post to clarify to anybody reading that I didn't really say or do what was accused the attacks stops. Funny that, don't you think?


I see a difference between pulling up posts in order to clarify or to continue a conversation and in pulling up posts in order to revive a situation that has died in order to revive the embers. 
That's just me. 
Funny, sad... there is a common phrase stirring around that won't settle long enough for me to ...ah, there it is,
theater of the absurd...


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, let's drop the use of the word "desecration". I used it because I *personally* consider many uses of the image of the flag to be forms of desecration.
> 
> But, read the Flag Code again yourself (words in bold print formatted by me):
> The Flag Code addresses the impropriety of using *the* flag as an article of personal adornment, *a design on items of temporary use, and item of clothing*. The evident purpose of these suggested restraints is to limit the commercial or common usage of the flag and, thus, maintain its dignity. *The 1976 amendments to the Code recognized the wearing of a flag patch or pin on the left side (near the heart) of uniforms of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations.* The Code also states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. While wearing the colors may be in poor taste and offensive to many, it is important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely voluntary basis to insure proper respect for the flag. It is, at least, questionable whether statutes placing civil or criminal penalties on the wearing of clothing bearing or resembling a flag could be constitutionally enforced in light of Supreme Court decisions in the area of flag desecration.
> ...


You beat me to it. I posted my response before reading this post.  Oh well, perhaps in this case repetition may be good? It has been said that to learn something it should be repeated 3 times


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm pleased to hear you and your Mom are doing well.



MaidInBedlam said:


> 1. I was part owner of a pizza shop from 1969-1972. I had a middle class income.
> 2.My ex-husband and I owned a small used book store from 1992-99.. We had a middle class income.
> 
> You and I both know we're talking about people who don't work 9 to 5. They work as many hours as it takes. Who takes up the slack if an employee is sick? The owner. Who does everything from sweeping floors to paying the taxes? The owner.
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Hey, Rocky. Long time, no see.


Hey Maid.....I needed a rest from the squabbling. I see things have not change. I have been auditing this discussion and find you gals, the "pig liberals" to be quite intelligent, witty and so tolerant of the garbage spewed. I am amazed at your patience, and sometimes lack thereof, to spread some truth. Falling on "dead" ears is the major distraction. Apparently, they do not feel that "truth" from liberals is acceptable. I always believed that education was the answer, however now I think it's too late. Their fear and anger is all too pervasive, there really is no common ground.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Quoted directly from page 17 of the code
> 
> "While wearing the * flag colors *may be in poor taste and offensive to others, it is important to remember that the Flag Code is intended as a guide to be followed on a purely volunteer basis to insure proper respect for the flag."
> 
> ...


You realize that if it had been Janet or Knitry who had adopted those shoes as an avatar there would have been a huge outcry from the right. But one of them did it, so the boss has to defend her by telling you you don't know how to read or some other such clever insult.

You clearly know a lot and think a lot and probably read a lot, but unless you say what she wants you to say, you're slime-mold (though I don't think she's ever used such an interesting phrase).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't worry about KPG spoiling her record. Some things never seem to change.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I so admire how consistently contrary you are about anything anyone you don't agree with says. Please, stay the way you are and never spoil your record.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I would say the flag on a pair of hooker shoes is in poor taste. If it's okay on shoes, why not on thongs (and I don't mean the kind you wear on your feet)?
> 
> I'm sure your pancakes are in very good taste, and very good-tasting, too.


Again, I laughed! :lol:


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well put.........It's like they think they can catch being poor if they get to close to someone who is poor. And I don't believe for a minute any one of them is rich. They may have more money than some, and less than others. Having less money doesn't make you a bad person, just like having more money makes you some kind of saint.
> Like 'veI said about them before, when it comes to this subject, and anything to do with ACA & President Obama, all logic goes out the window.


I really think this hate of the poor stems from a deep seated fear of ending up poor. It's like people think they can keep misfortune that may leave them poor by hating those who are poor.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> You beat me to it. I posted my response before reading this post.  Oh well, perhaps in this case repetition may be good? It has been said that to learn something it should be repeated 3 times


It just cracks me up that these shoes belong to Sarah Palin, Queen of the Undereducated, defend away O' Classy Ones.
The hem on the pants looks terrible, too.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa wrote:
Well put.........It's like they think they can catch being poor if they get to close to someone who is poor. And I don't believe for a minute any one of them is rich. They may have more money than some, and less than others. Having less money doesn't make you a bad person, just like having more money makes you some kind of saint. 
Like 'veI said about them before, when it comes to this subject, and anything to do with ACA & President Obama, all logic goes out the window.



Lkholcomb said:


> I really think this hate of the poor stems from a deep seated fear of ending up poor. It's like people think they can keep misfortune that may leave them poor by hating those who are poor.


There is a frame of mind, similar to those who sabotage their relationships, that some exhibit who believe they don't deserve success. That would certainly account for folks who fear those on the lower rungs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I really think this hate of the poor stems from a deep seated fear of ending up poor. It's like people think they can keep misfortune that may leave them poor by hating those who are poor.


It may be that. But I recently read a piece in which the author attributed racism to a fear that after treating African Americans so badly for so long, they would want to take revenge. This reasoning could hold in the case of the poor as well; the Russian Revolution isn't that far in the past. Of course, everything is multidetermined (as one of my former teachers would say at least once a week), even bigotry.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> If someone had just shared that those were Sarah Palin's shoes we would all understood the lack of taste, after all she has no education, either.


Roflmao!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> This is the last post of yours I will read.


Promises, promises, haven't we heard this empty threat before?

:XD:

Edit: I don't often post here, but every couple of days I drop in and read a few pages just because I get a giggle out of the 3+ stooges who have the gall to pass themselves off as far-sighted individuals who have determined the direction this great country must take because they say so........sometimes it isn't a giggle but downright shock at the lack of compassion for their fellow human beings. People like that is why Obama won.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Hey Maid.....I needed a rest from the squabbling. I see things have not change. I have been auditing this discussion and find you gals, the "pig liberals" to be quite intelligent, witty and so tolerant of the garbage spewed. I am amazed at your patience, and sometimes lack thereof, to spread some truth. Falling on "dead" ears is the major distraction. Apparently, they do not feel that "truth" from liberals is acceptable. I always believed that education was the answer, however now I think it's too late. Their fear and anger is all too pervasive, there really is no common ground.


Yet another insightful comment from someone who has a firm grasp of the situation.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You realize that if it had been Janet or Knitry who had adopted those shoes as an avatar there would have been a huge outcry from the right. But one of them did it, so the boss has to defend her by telling you you don't know how to read or some other such clever insult.


I post lot of fun political images on Pinterest with the caption: *Hypocrisy, thy name is Republicon.*

Works here too, doesn't it??

Basically, I'm convinced it works pretty much wherever you find a collection of Republicans.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Promises, promises, haven't we heard this empty threat before?
> 
> :XD:
> 
> Edit: I don't often post here, but every couple of days I drop in and read a few pages just because I get a giggle out of the 3+ stooges who have the gall to pass themselves off as far-sighted individuals who have determined the direction this great country must take because they say so........sometimes it isn't a giggle but downright shock at the lack of compassion for their fellow human beings. People like that is why Obama won.


You may not post here often, but it's clearly a winner when you do.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I post lot of fun political images on Pinterest with the caption: *Hypocrisy, thy name is Republicon.*
> 
> Works here too, doesn't it??
> 
> Basically, I'm convinced it works pretty much wherever you find a collection of Republicans.


But the truly sad thing is that there are Republicans who are not like that. But unfortunately they are not the loudest (or the actual politicians).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I post lot of fun political images on Pinterest with the caption: *Hypocrisy, thy name is Republicon.*
> 
> Works here too, doesn't it??
> 
> Basically, I'm convinced it works pretty much wherever you find a collection of Republicans.


It would have to work; it represents the truth.

I've never looked for political images on Pinterest. In fact, I still haven't figured out what Pinterest is.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> But the truly sad thing is that there are Republicans who are not like that. But unfortunately they are not the loudest (or the actual politicians).


Right, I know lots of Republicans who would be embarassed by what they see here. 
The Republicans who did go to work, go/went to school at night in order to receive training in their chosen fields, are the people I know. 
There are Republicans out there, and we all know them, who we can converse with, who we can have a give and take with, who we can agree to disagree with without being told that we are stooooopid, or can't be spoken to because of a lack of education, those are the people who don't live in a bubble and would never dream of suggesting that Democrats are only interested in sitting home and not working. 
I think the reason for that is because they are Republicans and not some far right nut job. 
There is more to say, but, another time...


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

LukeLucy[quote As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens.
"As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens." You know, she may be onto something here, her description sounds like Romney.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Promises, promises, haven't we heard this empty threat before?
> 
> :XD:
> 
> Edit: I don't often post here, but every couple of days I drop in and read a few pages just because I get a giggle out of the 3+ stooges who have the gall to pass themselves off as far-sighted individuals who have determined the direction this great country must take because they say so........sometimes it isn't a giggle but downright shock at the lack of compassion for their fellow human beings. People like that is why Obama won.


And people like that is why it's impossible for us to criticize him. He's far from perfect, but when he's pictured as evil incarnate, I automatically rush to his defense.

I love this, so I'll repeat it: "I get a giggle out of the 3+ stooges who have the gall to pass themselves off as far-sighted individuals who have determined the direction this great country must take because they say so........sometimes it isn't a giggle but downright shock at the lack of compassion for their fellow human beings."

The lack of compassion is especially shocking because several of them claim to be devout Christians.

It's fun to have you around, Cindy.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I post lot of fun political images on Pinterest with the caption: *Hypocrisy, thy name is Republicon.*
> 
> Works here too, doesn't it??
> 
> Basically, I'm convinced it works pretty much wherever you find a collection of Republicans.


I think the problem may be the "collection" aspect. 
While I find that we can speak our minds and say what we think without it causing much of an uproar, when there are a collection of Republicans even in name only, they act as if they are cornered and can't give an inch.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Thanks Knitry and Poor Purl


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> But the truly sad thing is that there are Republicans who are not like that. But unfortunately they are not the loudest (or the actual politicians).


Remember Jon Huntsman? Neither do most people - even while the clowns were debating, he never got mentioned. He seemed to me to be such a thoughtful person. Instead, we got to hear Herman Cain and la Bachmann, and Newt, etc.

There is so much noise from the far right that the sane ones can't hear themselves think.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think the problem may be the "collection" aspect.
> While I find that we can speak our minds and say what we think without it causing much of an uproar, when there are a collection of Republicans even in name only, they act as if they are cornered and can't give an inch.


And call us bullies. We bully them just by stating an opinion. Well, that's bull.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> LukeLucy[quote As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens.
> "As a matter of fact, I believe that people who come from money and are SPOILED, are least likely to become productive citizens." You know, she may be onto something here, her description sounds like Romney.


Your insights are always appreciated.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Your insights are always appreciated.


Thanks, I don't what went on with the name change, so when I first did not see you signed in as Jelun2, I did an uh oh, glad to see you are still in there slugging.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> You beat me to it. I posted my response before reading this post.  Oh well, perhaps in this case repetition may be good? It has been said that to learn something it should be repeated 3 times


Well, you posted the relevant portion of the Flag Code after I expressed my negative opinion of the flag shoes. I quoted it. KPG quoted it when she told me all about how wrong I was about what the code said, including the part about lapel pins. I think the parts of Page 16 and 17 of the Flag Code certainly were quoted enough times for someone to learn something from it. I think KPG was so busy composing her put-down to me that she turned off her learning channel.

I certainly understand that the Flag Code is a guide, not a law. I'm a thorough product of the 60s and I'm offended by those bleeping shoes. I was offended in the 60s by some of the uses the flag was put to. Whatever influence 60s radicalism had on me, it never caused me to abandon my love of country and sense of patriotism.

I'm still voluntarily offended by Sarah Palin's shoes even though I think she's too stupid to think them offensive. She probably thought she was making a cheerful show of patriotism.

One of my great-uncles served in WWI.My father and several of my uncles served in WWII. One of my dearest friends was a paratrooper during the (so-called) Korean War. There are 5 generations of firefighters on my mother's side of the family. Most of my friends are anywhere from 5-10 years older than me and while most of them served in some military service or other, they missed out on Viet Nam, but enough of the boys who were in my high school graduation class died over there. Geez, I'm a pacifist who prays that there will never be another war while they rage around in various foreign countries. For religious reasons I don't salute the flag or recite the Pledge of Allegiance, but that doesn't subtract from my patriotism. It's a good example of the freedom I have as an American that I can follow my religious beliefs.

KPG won't budge from her opinion. You'll probably get a dressing down from her, too. I agree with you that wearing shoes with an American flag design implies that the wearer is stomping the flag of our country. I voluntarily don't like it at all.

This seems to be my day to write long posts.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, you posted the relevant portion of the Flag Code after I expressed my negative opinion of the flag shoes. I quoted it. KPG quoted it when she told me all about how wrong I was about what the code said, including the part about lapel pins. I think the parts of Page 16 and 17 of the Flag Code certainly were quoted enough times for someone to learn something from it. I think KPG was so busy composing her put-down to me that she turned off her learning channel.
> 
> I certainly understand that the Flag Code is a guide, not a law. I'm a thorough product of the 60s and I'm offended by those bleeping shoes. I was offended in the 60s by some of the uses the flag was put to. Whatever influence 60s radicalism had on me, it never caused me to abandon my love of country and sense of patriotism.
> 
> ...


Oh, believe me, LKholcomb is taking her fair share of KPG'sBS. It just isn't on this thread.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm pleased to hear you and your Mom are doing well.


Thanks. So far, so good, but I'm a little tired today after chasing lots of details around. I've been lounging and lazily following this topic and other things on line. For some reason I have written several lengthy essays and posted them here.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Hey Maid.....I needed a rest from the squabbling. I see things have not change. I have been auditing this discussion and find you gals, the "pig liberals" to be quite intelligent, witty and so tolerant of the garbage spewed. I am amazed at your patience, and sometimes lack thereof, to spread some truth. Falling on "dead" ears is the major distraction. Apparently, they do not feel that "truth" from liberals is acceptable. I always believed that education was the answer, however now I think it's too late. Their fear and anger is all too pervasive, there really is no common ground.


This topic is a very strange little corner of the universe. I wonder at my participation here sometimes. Can't really explain it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks. So far, so good, but I'm a little tired today after chasing lots of details around. I've been lounging and lazily following this topic and other things on line. For some reason I have written several lengthy essays and posted them here.


The format is not really conducive to full explanations of what we are trying to say, I think that is part of the problem with typos and spelling, too many edits while trying to rephrase portions of what we say. 
I prefer length, we are better able to explain what we think.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You realize that if it had been Janet or Knitry who had adopted those shoes as an avatar there would have been a huge outcry from the right. But one of them did it, so the boss has to defend her by telling you you don't know how to read or some other such clever insult.
> 
> You clearly know a lot and think a lot and probably read a lot, but unless you say what she wants you to say, you're slime-mold (though I don't think she's ever used such an interesting phrase).


How funny! When I was in high school my friends and I referred to some of our fellow students as "slime-mold".


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Thanks, I don't what went on with the name change, so when I first did not see you signed in as Jelun2, I did an uh oh, glad to see you are still in there slugging.


Feels more like slogging today... Mama said there'd be days like this!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh, believe me, LKholcomb is taking her fair share of KPG'sBS. It just isn't on this thread.


I've only been following this topic for a while. It's too much to try to endure some of the others.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I've only been following this topic for a while. It's too much to try to endure some of the others.


Believe me, you don't want to.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How funny! When I was in high school my friends and I referred to some of our fellow students as "slime-mold".


We may have, too, though I can't remember that far back.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How funny! When I was in high school my friends and I referred to some of our fellow students as "slime-mold".


Well, Well. Pretty interesting as it turns out.

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32767/title/Slime-Mold-Smarty-Pants/


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am begging you. The above applies to you. I will not read your posts again.


Well, I tried. I don't blame you for the nasty things you have said to me. Because I know you are greatly influenced by others. I'll never understand why some people always choose to travel down the road of evil. Maybe for some, the devil makes it easier for them. 
God bless you LL......


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, Well. Pretty interesting as it turns out.
> 
> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/32767/title/Slime-Mold-Smarty-Pants/


Fascinating. In the video, it looked kind of cute.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> But the truly sad thing is that there are Republicans who are not like that. But unfortunately they are not the loudest (or the actual politicians).


Yeah, I should quallify that for the most part I mean the elected ones and those who advise them. HOWEVER, the rank and file qualify often enough.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Remember Jon Huntsman? Neither do most people - even while the clowns were debating, he never got mentioned. He seemed to me to be such a thoughtful person. Instead, we got to hear Herman Cain and la Bachmann, and Newt, etc.
> 
> There is so much noise from the far right that the sane ones can't hear themselves think.


I really like John Huntsman. His daughter Abbey is one of the anchors on an afternoon MSNBC show. I like her very much as well.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Darn those regulations, they just keep business success down!

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/12/3151421/fourth-day-water-west-virginia/

Chemical Leak Into West Virginia River Far Larger Than Previously Estimated
BY JOANNA M. FOSTER	ON JANUARY 12, 2014 AT 1:28 PM
11,192 987 "Chemical Leak Into West Virginia River Far Larger Than Previously Estimated" Share: Share on facebook Share on google_plusone_share Share on email

An environmental enforcement boat patrols in front of the chemical spill at Freedom Industries.
CREDIT: FOO CONNER/@IWASAROUND
As over 300,000 people in West Virginia face a fourth day without water, state environmental officials are now estimating that as much as 7,500 gallons of a chemical used to process coal  Crude MGHM  may have spilled into the Elk River. That number is a substantial increase from early estimates of 2,000 to 5,000 gallons.
The chemical leak, first reported Thursday, was at a facility owned by Freedom Industries along the Elk River, just 1.5 miles upstream from a major intake used by the largest water utility in the state, West Virginia American Water.
At a press conference Saturday afternoon, Jeff McIntyre, president of West Virginia American Water Company, said that it would likely still be several days before tap water in the nine counties affected would be safe for anything besides flushing toilets.
The U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention has set the standard of 1 part per million as a safe concentration of Crude MGHM in drinking water. Levels of the chemical must remain below this threshold for over 24 hours of testing before the water company can begin flushing the system.
At a press briefing Saturday evening, Gov. Earl Ray Tomblins (D) office released the first results of the now round-the-clock water sampling efforts. While some tests are coming in below the safe threshold, the system is still far from clean. Eight out of 18 recent test results tested above 1 part per million. Some of the earliest tests showed concentrations as high as 3 parts per million.
The reason the numbers are going down is we believe less of the material is getting into the water, said Mike Dorsey, the chief of homeland security and emergency response at the State Department of Environmental Protection. We have cut of the source of the leak, the tank. There is still material under the concrete and the soil. Weve taken aggressive measures on the shore line below the site.
A team from the Chemical Safety Board will arrive in West Virginia on Monday to begin the long process of assessing the cause of the spill. The CSB is an independent federal agency with the authority to investigate industrial chemical accidents. The agency issues recommendations for prevention of future accidents.
To date, FEMA has brought in 1.4 million liters of water for residents. An additional 1.6 million liters are expected to come in over the course of the weekend.
The New York Times reported Saturday that at least 122 people have gone to local hospitals complaining of nausea, vomiting, and skin and eye irritation.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It would have to work; it represents the truth.
> 
> I've never looked for political images on Pinterest. In fact, I still haven't figured out what Pinterest is.


I love Pinterest. It's image-based. Think of bulletin board where you might post images. You can go create as many different "boards" where you post images as you want, and then they get posted to the Pinterest pages (a little like Tweets scroll by on Twitter) and you can grab them and pin them to your own boards, etc. There are ways you can go get lost looking at different images and collections. I can spend hours and hours there so rarely indulge. But I do like to pin images that strike my fancy, especially political messages, and that doesn't require going there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Believe me, you don't want to.


I checked out Fixed Income and it's worse than this. There was one message I thought I should respond to but stopped myself when I realized that would have repercussions. I did get to read that nasty, abusive message about you working for the state. It's like there's no internal censor. There's nothing that makes her stop and ask "How will this make me look to others?" while at the same time she accuses others of I don't even know how to say it. And the things she takes offense at. How dare LK ask Joey if she's a Quaker?

I'm not going to make a habit of looking in there. I see she's already chased away all those people who began the thread.

And here I am talking about her. Well, with me it's professional interest. I wonder if she's always run her own business, because she seems so jealous of people who get pensions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I really like John Huntsman. His daughter Abbey is one of the anchors on an afternoon MSNBC show. I like her very much as well.


Didn't know about his daughter, but he seems so reasonable, and so well-informed. And a Mormon, yet, but without the big deal that came with Romney's Mormonism (though Mitt may not have been to blame for that). There Huntsman sat, with his brain and his handsome face, and we only heard from Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and the other ricks.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Darn those regulations, they just keep business success down!
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2014/01/12/3151421/fourth-day-water-west-virginia/
> 
> ...


I hope Freedom is not going to have to pay for the clean-up. It may not be Exxon or BP, but it's still entitled to its chance at dirtying the country. Talk about entitlements.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Didn't know about his daughter, but he seems so reasonable, and so well-informed. And a Mormon, yet, but without the big deal that came with Romney's Mormonism (though Mitt may not have been to blame for that). There Huntsman sat, with his brain and his handsome face, and we only heard from Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and the other ricks.


Poor Purl, I think you have a typo, you forgot the "p" in front of ricks ..... "the other ricks"

Oops, I probably shouldn't have said that!!!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I checked out Fixed Income and it's worse than this. There was one message I thought I should respond to but stopped myself when I realized that would have repercussions. I did get to read that nasty, abusive message about you working for the state. It's like there's no internal censor. There's nothing that makes her stop and ask "How will this make me look to others?" while at the same time she accuses others of I don't even know how to say it. And the things she takes offense at. How dare LK ask Joey if she's a Quaker?
> 
> I'm not going to make a habit of looking in there. I see she's already chased away all those people who began the thread.
> 
> And here I am talking about her. Well, with me it's professional interest. I wonder if she's always run her own business, because she seems so jealous of people who get pensions.


LOL, as if I didn't understand the pension system, at one stage of being union active I took people in to apply for their pensions and then out to lunch to help them process the information. 
I won't go into her mental status again as it is obvious that none of those over there dare to talk to her about it, or they don't care enough about her to go into it. 
I was going to say that she probably hates to pay that 12+percent, but that is worked into, or out of, the tax burden... as far as being self employed, it is something that I have observed more in men than women, but... lots of people with anger management stuff going on can't work for others. They are forced to be self-employed or go on disability. 
I am sure that you saw more of that than I, that piece for me is more about people that I knew incidentally than through work. 
After all, working with the population I dealt with was not a good match with anger issues. 
LOL, I must be sipping from the same cup as Empress MIB this evening, talk about rambling on. 
It feels good to finally relax, just us girls.

[Over there being Denim and Pearls]


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I love Pinterest. It's image-based. Think of bulletin board where you might post images. You can go create as many different "boards" where you post images as you want, and then they get posted to the Pinterest pages (a little like Tweets scroll by on Twitter) and you can grab them and pin them to your own boards, etc. There are ways you can go get lost looking at different images and collections. I can spend hours and hours there so rarely indulge. But I do like to pin images that strike my fancy, especially political messages, and that doesn't require going there.


But can you specifically search for things you're interested in, not by broad category but specifically. If I wanted to see your stuff, how could I find it?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Poor Purl, I think you have a typo, you forgot the "p" in front of ricks ..... "the other ricks"


HAHAHAA, I did enjoy the snicker from that post.

Edit: well, if this little uneducated dolt got it, I am guessing that all those really, really, smart people did as well.

Oh, and so long as I am going into all of this heady explanatory discusssion. The lack of education is not about not going to school, it is the difference between going to school with the privilege of studying liberal arts and the necessity of studying for a career. 
It seems to me that is one of the major disadvantages we are handing the young folks today is that post secondary education is all about a career and getting out to work. 
It may have some basis in necessity but it has some definite negatives for the whole of our society.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Didn't know about his daughter, but he seems so reasonable, and so well-informed. And a Mormon, yet, but without the big deal that came with Romney's Mormonism (though Mitt may not have been to blame for that). There Huntsman sat, with his brain and his handsome face, and we only heard from Rick Perry, Rick Santorum, and the other ricks.


Poor Purl
Let's face it, it has been the season for the Nuts to show all of their shortcomings. I actually welcome the revelations. We are learning who is sane and who is not and go from there. What a Circus we have been exposed to.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Poor Purl, I think you have a typo, you forgot the "p" in front of ricks ..... "the other ricks"
> 
> Oops, I probably shouldn't have said that!!!!


Well, that's just your interpretation, and a pretty good one. I see Rick as a short form of Richard, and therefore a synonym of Dick.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Let's face it, it has been the season for the Nuts to show all of their shortcomings. I actually welcome the revelations. We are learning who is sane and who is not and go from there. What a Circus we have been exposed to.


But Huck, this has been a very long season. I'm still waiting to find out who's sane.

Must be the season of the witch.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But Huck, this has been a very long season. I'm still waiting to find out who's sane.
> 
> Must be the season of the witch.


I have always loved that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope Freedom is not going to have to pay for the clean-up. It may not be Exxon or BP, but it's still entitled to its chance at dirtying the country. Talk about entitlements.


Just as with the media now being owned by, what?, six corporations, I would guess that fossil fuels are the same. 
If it weren't past my bedtime that would be a fun investigation.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, as if I didn't understand the pension system, at one stage of being union active I took people in to apply for their pensions and then out to lunch to help them process the information.
> I won't go into her mental status again as it is obvious that none of those over there dare to talk to her about it, or they don't care enough about her to go into it.
> I was going to say that she probably hates to pay that 12+percent, but that is worked into, or out of, the tax burden... as far as being self employed, it is something that I have observed more in men than women, but... lots of people with anger management stuff going on can't work for others. They are forced to be self-employed or go on disability.
> I am sure that you saw more of that than I, that piece for me is more about people that I knew incidentally than through work.
> ...


It gets so peaceful here when TV time comes around.

It's not necessarily anger management I dealt with, but I had more than my share of Borderline Personalities. They tend to split their environment in two, whom they see as the good and the bad. The bad have no saving grace at all. The good get all their loyalty, attention, free time until they're disappointed, at which time the good one gets put on the bad pile. I wonder whether they're afraid of her over there, or she's so nice to them that they can't see her objectively. After all, the abusiveness isn't hidden; it's out there for all to see, yet they accuse us of ranting and bullying.

I'm going to close up shop soon. Busy day tomorrow: stove repair guy and then cat to vet. My life is so exciting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAHAA, I did enjoy the snicker from that post.
> 
> Edit: well, if this little uneducated dolt got it, I am guessing that all those really, really, smart people did as well.
> 
> ...


Boy, do I second that! In fact, I've overspent my time at school, but I've learned something important each time. (One of the things I've learned is that you don't have to get a degree every time; but I know a psychiatrist in his late 70s who started taking English lit. classes for fun and is now starting his doctoral dissertation.) There's something uncivilized about an educational system that's largely vocational school.

I'd say goodnight again, but I'm sure I'll soon come upon another post I MUST answer.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It gets so peaceful here when TV time comes around.
> 
> It's not necessarily anger management I dealt with, but I had more than my share of Borderline Personalities. They tend to split their environment in two, whom they see as the good and the bad. The bad have no saving grace at all. The good get all their loyalty, attention, free time until they're disappointed, at which time the good one gets put on the bad pile. I wonder whether they're afraid of her over there, or she's so nice to them that they can't see her objectively. After all, the abusiveness isn't hidden; it's out there for all to see, yet they accuse us of ranting and bullying.
> 
> I'm going to close up shop soon. Busy day tomorrow: stove repair guy and then cat to vet. My life is so exciting.


Two events, you should be proud! So many folks I know get so they can only do one task a day as soon as retirement hits.

People see familial abuse all the time and still want to call the abuser a "nice guy". People don't step in when parents are screaming at their children in public, humiliating them and priming them for abusers later in their lives, why would anyone risk being cut off from their support system over the box where the people being abused are only words on a screen?

That is where we have it all over those other folks, Empress, we will risk the passing displeasure of a member of "the crew" to do what we feel is the right thing, won't we? And it is fine, it is ethical and done in integrity.

PS I like starting sentences with "and".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have always loved that.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Two events, you should be proud! So many folks I know get so they can only do one task a day as soon as retirement hits.
> 
> People see familial abuse all the time and still want to call the abuser a "nice guy". People don't step in when parents are screaming at their children in public, humiliating them and priming them for abusers later in their lives, why would anyone risk being cut off from their support system over the box where the people being abused are only words on a screen?
> 
> ...


So do I. We use it in speech, why not in writing? Even though some pedants say it's against the rules.

Most of us have at times been lectured to by other members. I've had it out with Maid a couple of times, but I still like most of what she says and love having her input. Probably similar things have happened to you (maybe in PMs?). We're complete people who make mistakes and are sometimes thick-headed, but we don't all have the same likes and dislikes or the same opinions. I'm not a socialist, but I see a lot of sense in what you say.

But (another good sentence-starter) I really need to get away from this machine. Bye.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think this is the best poster I have seen about the voting rights issue for a while.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think this is the best poster I have seen about the voting rights issue for a while.


I agree although I am sad to say that Minnesota passed the law to drug test welfare recipients a few weeks ago. 
To me it's just another form of discrimination and a waste of time and money.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She lives in MN; avoid that state and all racists and you'll be fine.


Yes, you and LL make sure you do that. We have very clean air and would like to keep it that way.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree although I am sad to say that Minnesota passed the law to drug test welfare recipients a few weeks ago.
> To me it's just another form of discrimination and a waste of time and money.


In Florida it's turned out to be exactly that. Welfare recipients had about 1/4 the incidence of drug use as the public at large. But it's on the right's list of Racist Things We Can Get Away With by Calling Them Something Else, and a few dozen states are going to pass similar measures. Eccchhh.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> >>>> See post above and ask yourself why your Liberal gang members never gave you any support, not one of them, when you asked them if you were a Liar or not.


Some things we leave to PM's.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitry
> I too have graduated from leaning on a Crutch to becoming independent.


Hello Huck!! Welcome back!!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, you and LL make sure you do that. We have very clean air and would like to keep it that way.


Same goes for ND :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm a firm believer in the benefit of learning Liberal Arts. History gives context and perspective to our understanding of the world today. Written and spoken languages allow us to communicate with others.

It does seem ridiculous to pay $100,000 for a degree that does not help you earn a salary to pay back loans and live a middle class life. Just my opinion.



Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAHAA, I did enjoy the snicker from that post.
> 
> Edit: well, if this little uneducated dolt got it, I am guessing that all those really, really, smart people did as well.
> 
> ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do and so do all _those_ I know who create wealth. :thumbup: There is 'that' word again the Libs have such a hard time understanding. They can guess how many I'm talking about now. :XD: I'm secure in the fact that you'll understand LTL. :-D


What makes you think that we are not wealthy? Because someone chooses to vote Dem does not make them poor.
It makes them HUMAN.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> In Florida it's turned out to be exactly that. Welfare recipients had about 1/4 the incidence of drug use as the public at large. But it's on the right's list of Racist Things We Can Get Away With by Calling Them Something Else, and a few dozen states are going to pass similar measures. Eccchhh.


But when you look at the big picture, most can't afford the drugs. With the all of cocaine that flows through FL I guarantee you it is not the indigent that is buying it. 
I read that that 1% of welfare recipients are believed to use drugs in MN. Can you just imagine an 80 year old to be handed a cup and sent to the men's or ladies room?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What makes you think that we are not wealthy? Because someone chooses to vote Dem does not make them poor.
> It makes them HUMAN.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Truer words......


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What makes you think that we are not wealthy? Because someone chooses to vote Dem does not make them poor.
> It makes them HUMAN.


That was a typical KPG comment wasn't it? I once asked her if she was wealthy. I mean the way she talks about knowing all these rich business owners, you'd think she has breakfast every morning with Donald Trump. 
And since she's just as poor as the next guy...she never did answer my question..... :lol:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You also need to realize that American's don't want to pay the higher prices for goods made in America. They want everything to be as cheap as possible, we have grown accustomed to that. This new mindset is a very real reason why manufacturing in America is having a hard time restarting. A good case can be made against this reasoning, at the same time, it seems to be a hindrance to manufacturing goods here.


Do not speak on behalf of all Americans. Most Americans expect quality goods for their money. Maybe you prefer the cheap crap, but I don't.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> That was a typical KPG comment wasn't it? I once asked her if she was wealthy. I mean the way she talks about knowing all these rich business owners, you'd think she has breakfast every morning with Donald Trump.
> And since she's just as poor as the next guy...she never did answer my question..... :lol:


She doesn't know which answer to use, Nussa. The real one of the fabricated one.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> No true. BUT Obama has taxed the job creators to the breaking point and they can't afford to create new jobs. Obama and his administration have added an overwhelming amount of new regulations that harm small business. So by his actions he has prevented job growth.
> 
> There are 1.5 million less jobs than when he took office. Less people are in the workforce, an all time low since the last low by Jimmy Carter. The jobless rate is down because it does not count the people not looking for jobs. The 18 - 29 year olds have an all time high misery index and Obama is losing their support.
> 
> More people are on food stamps and are in poverty than when he took office. He has had over five years to fix the economy, and he has failed. No more blaming Bush, he owns this economy. His policies have caused it. And just to remind you, if his economy was so robust, he would not be begging for more unemployment benefits because they would not be necessary.


Really, LTL? I would like to see something besides your opinion here. Back it up please with resource.
Business Insider does not take sides.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Our warm weather was a 2 night stand. Back to freezing tomorrow, but still 60 dg warmer than last week. :-D


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> That is because of what our government is doing to prevent this kind of thing. The business owners are too worried about the economy to reinvest. This is what the conservatives have been saying all along. Obamacare is causing businesses to pull back.


That excuse is really old now, LL. Most small business already insure their employees. What does the ACA have to do with that? Nevermind. I don't want to know what your answer is. It will never change.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> "By Friday evening, 737 people had called the West Virginia Poison Center to report concerns or symptoms related to the spill, water company spokeswoman Elizabeth Scharman said.
> 
> Symptoms included nausea, vomiting, dizziness, diarrhea, rashes and reddened skin * "varying from very mild to much more bothersome", * said.
> 
> ...


Yes, but the RWN"S here will tell you how good coal is for our country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. It's gone. I wonder how that happened.


If she didn't correct it herself by editing it (which you can do within an hour, then she asked Admin to delete it.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, you posted the relevant portion of the Flag Code after I expressed my negative opinion of the flag shoes. I quoted it. KPG quoted it when she told me all about how wrong I was about what the code said, including the part about lapel pins. I think the parts of Page 16 and 17 of the Flag Code certainly were quoted enough times for someone to learn something from it. I think KPG was so busy composing her put-down to me that she turned off her learning channel.
> 
> I certainly understand that the Flag Code is a guide, not a law. I'm a thorough product of the 60s and I'm offended by those bleeping shoes. I was offended in the 60s by some of the uses the flag was put to. Whatever influence 60s radicalism had on me, it never caused me to abandon my love of country and sense of patriotism.
> 
> ...


We have had family in The current conflict, gulf war, Vietnam war, WWII, WWI, Civil War, and even the revolutionary war. We have had at 2 generation of volunteer firefighters, and my grandmother was a volunteer firefight during the war. I think if we are using the status of our family's military service as a basis for being able to have an opinion (as has been implied several times in several posts), then you and I have a senior status . I'm also a pacifist, but do support those who follow their own beliefs. I say the pledge of allegiance but leave out "under God" as a show of respect to the author who never wanted it added during the shameful McCarthy years.

I've known lots of people who can't admit they are wrong or even that another's point just might have at least SOME validity. I was taught the care of the flag and the flag code in school and tested on it. Heck, I felt like a rebel when my kids got bathing suits with the colors on it! They did even closely resemble the flag either!

Oh well, guess today was a long post day for me too.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Believe me, you don't want to.


 :thumbup:


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, I tried. I don't blame you for the nasty things you have said to me. Because I know you are greatly influenced by others. I'll never understand why some people always choose to travel down the road of evil. Maybe for some, the devil makes it easier for them.
> God bless you LL......


I do believe that the Bible has something in it about the true road is the hard and narrow and the wrong one the wide and easy. I'm to lazy right now to look it up.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I checked out Fixed Income and it's worse than this. There was one message I thought I should respond to but stopped myself when I realized that would have repercussions. I did get to read that nasty, abusive message about you working for the state. It's like there's no internal censor. There's nothing that makes her stop and ask "How will this make me look to others?" while at the same time she accuses others of I don't even know how to say it. And the things she takes offense at. How dare LK ask Joey if she's a Quaker?
> 
> I'm not going to make a habit of looking in there. I see she's already chased away all those people who began the thread.
> 
> And here I am talking about her. Well, with me it's professional interest. I wonder if she's always run her own business, because she seems so jealous of people who get pensions.


The best part was that I never asked that! I used the Quakers as an example of a group that stood up and lived what they believed, not just talked about it. Lol


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> But when you look at the big picture, most can't afford the drugs. With the all of cocaine that flows through FL I guarantee you it is not the indigent that is buying it.
> I read that that 1% of welfare recipients are believed to use drugs in MN. Can you just imagine an 80 year old to be handed a cup and sent to the men's or ladies room?


That's exactly why the law is a piece of lunacy. Even if the welfare recipients are young, the only way they could afford the drug is by some kind of crime, in which case they wouldn't be applying to any government program.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really, LTL? I would like to see something besides your opinion here. Back it up please with resource.
> Business Insider does not take sides.


During this country's best economic period, tax rates were way higher than they are now (in some periods the top marginal tax rate was around 90%), but the people having to pay the top rates managed without going out of business. In fact, they often put their money back into the business to avoid paying tax, which was good for business and for labor. It's only in the last 30 years, since Reagan taught the country that it was good to be greedy and to cheat labor, that taxes are considered too high, even though they're near the lowest they've ever been.

In other words, the people who have benefited most from living here have become the biggest pigs.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That excuse is really old now, LL. Most small business already insure their employees. What does the ACA have to do with that? Nevermind. I don't want to know what your answer is. It will never change.


Watch out, Patty. She's going to threaten that she won't read your messages any more.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> What makes you think that we are not wealthy? Because someone chooses to vote Dem does not make them poor.
> It makes them HUMAN.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree although I am sad to say that Minnesota passed the law to drug test welfare recipients a few weeks ago.
> To me it's just another form of discrimination and a waste of time and money.


The hope is that the SCOTUS will deem that unconstitutional, it is more of the right instilling that message, poor people are bad people. It is an easy judgment to fall into. I have had to remind my adult children more than once that there was a reason their mother was out there patching the hours of three jobs together at times during their childhood, that it wasn't for love of waking up in a panic wondering where she was supposed to be, what job she was supposed to be at.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In Florida it's turned out to be exactly that. Welfare recipients had about 1/4 the incidence of drug use as the public at large. But it's on the right's list of Racist Things We Can Get Away With by Calling Them Something Else, and a few dozen states are going to pass similar measures. Eccchhh.


It certainly wasn't poor folk lining up in CO for that million dollar day of sales the first day. 
I can't help thinking that a full on underground industry will continue because they have made it too expensive for many. I think I read that it was a 25% tax, give me a break.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's just a reminder from the weather to enjoy the moment.

Spring will be here soon.



BrattyPatty said:


> Our warm weather was a 2 night stand. Back to freezing tomorrow, but still 60 dg warmer than last week. :-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> During this country's best economic period, tax rates were way higher than they are now (in some periods the top marginal tax rate was around 90%), but the people having to pay the top rates managed without going out of business. In fact, they often put their money back into the business to avoid paying tax, which was good for business and for labor. It's only in the last 30 years, since Reagan taught the country that it was good to be greedy and to cheat labor, that taxes are considered too high, even though they're near the lowest they've ever been.
> 
> In other words, the people who have benefited most from living here have become the biggest pigs.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: So sad, but true.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Do not speak on behalf of all Americans. Most Americans expect quality goods for their money. Maybe you prefer the cheap crap, but I don't.


The average person's "nice" is still manufactered in some rathole with tremendously underpaid PEOPLE slaving for way too many hours for way too little money to create the half decent product as well, aren't they. At least as far as I know. 
Though, I did just double check one of my favorite finds and it was made in here in the US, nice fabric so it may not be foreign material shipped here. 
Anyway, most of what we buy in Nordstroms is still not made here or anywhere in N. America, so they are charging 10 times as much as Penney's or Target for 600 thread rather than 300. 
<shrug> 
I don't mean to pick on Nordstrom's in particular, they just came to mind. LOL, I haven't been in a high end retail store in years.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Yes, you got it, this young man's hometown is Sanford, FL. That same sweet town that let Treyvon Martin's killer off the hook with no charges brought. 
His new town is NYC, same sh** just colder.

America is still a deeply racist country

By Chris Arnade, The Guardian
Sunday, January 12, 2014 13:23 EST

Gone is the overt, violent, and legal racism of my childhood in the 1960s. Its been replaced by a subtler, still ugly version

A week after Barack Obama was elected president in 2008, I walked into my old hometown bar in central Florida to hear, Well if a ****** can be president, then I can have another drink. Give me a whiskey straight up.

Only one day in the town and I thought, Damn the south.

I had returned home to bury my father, who had spent much of the 1950s and 60s fighting for civil rights in the south. Consequently, my childhood was defined by race. It was why our car was shot at, why threats were made to burn our down, why some neighbors forbid me to play on their lawn, why I was taunted at school as a ****** lover.

It was nothing compared to what the blacks in town had to endure. I was just residing in the seam of something much uglier.

It is also why I left as soon as I could, exercising an option few others had. I eventually moved to New York City to work on Wall Street.

In the next 15 years I thought less about race. It is possible to live in the northeast as a white liberal and think little about it, to convince yourself that most of the crude past is behind. Outward signs suggest things are different now: I live in an integrated neighborhood, my kids have friends of all colors, and my old office is diverse compared to what I grew up with. As many point out, America even has a black man (technically bi-racial) as president.

Soon after my father passed away, I started to venture beyond my Wall Street life, to explore parts of New York that I had only previously passed through on the way to airports. I did this with my camera, initially as a hobby. I ended up spending three years documenting addiction in the New Yorks Bronx neighborhood of Hunts Point. There I was slapped in the face by the past.

In my Florida hometown, there is a train track that splits the town into two colors. When we passed into the black section of town, even if I were lying in the back of the station wagon, I knew it. The gravel roads would wake me, and I could basically smell poverty through the windows.

Crossing into Hunts Point in New York is the same, complete with a train track. The roads are paved, but feel unpaved. The stench of poverty has not changed much (industrial waste rather than uncollected garbage), nor has its clamor or its destructive power.

Neither has the color of its residents: the poor side of town in New York is still almost entirely dark skinned.

It took me a few months of slow recognition, fighting a thought I did not want to believe: we are still a deeply racist country. The laws on the books claim otherwise, but in Hunts Point (and similar neighborhoods across the country), those laws seem like far away idyllic words that clash with the daily reality: everything is stacked against those who are born black or brown.

We as a nation applaud ourselves for having moved beyond race. We find one or two self-made blacks or Hispanics who succeeded against terrible odds, and we elevate their stories to a higher position, and then we tell them over and over, so we can say, See, we really are a color blind nation.

We tell their stories so we can forget about the others, the ones who couldnt overcome the long odds, the ones born into neighborhoods locked down by the absurd war on drugs, the ones born with almost even odds that their fathers will at some point be in jail, the ones born into neighborhoods that few want to teach in, neighborhoods scarce of resources.

We tell the stories of success and say: see anyone can pull themselves up by their bootstraps, further denigrating those who cant escape poverty. It plays into the false and pernicious narrative that poverty is somehow a fault of desire, a fault of intelligence, a fault of skills. No, poverty is not a failing of the residents of Hunts Point who are just as decent and talented as anyone else. Rather it is a failing our broader society.

It took me seeing one black teen thrown against a bodega wall by cops, for no reason, to erase much of the image of seeing Obama elected. It took the unsolved murder of a 15-year-old Hunts Point girl, a girl my middle daughters age, to make me viscerally understand how lucky my children are. It took watching as one smart child grew from dreaming of college to dealing drugs to viscerally understand how lucky everyone in my old office is.

The barriers between Hunts Point and the rest of New York are not as high as they were between the white and black section of my hometown in the 1960s. People can freely pass over them. Practically, however, they are almost insurmountable.

Gone is the overt, violent, and legal racism of my childhood. It has been replaced by a subtler version.

It is a racism that is easier to ignore, easier to deny, and consequently almost as dangerous.

guardian.co.uk © Guardian News and Media 2014

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/01/12/america-is-still-a-deeply-racist-country/


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Anyone who thinks it was designed to attempt to "_fix the housing crisis_" knows absolutely NOTHING about what it was about. So that puts me WAYYYYY ahead of your ilk in knowledge about it.


Then do explain what you think it is all about. We're listening.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, you got it, this young man's hometown is Sanford, FL. That same sweet town that let Treyvon Martin's killer off the hook with no charges brought.
> His new town is NYC, same sh** just colder.
> 
> America is still a deeply racist country
> ...


What a powerful piece!

The following passage jumped out at me: "It plays into the false and pernicious narrative that poverty is somehow a fault of desire, a fault of intelligence, a fault of skills. No, poverty is not a failing of the residents of Hunts Point who are just as decent and talented as anyone else. Rather it is a failing our broader society." Here is someone who doesn't blame the poor for their own poverty. Here is someone who could have (maybe did) become rich on Wall Street but saw that there was more to life than becoming rich.

Thank you very much for posting this. It taught me a few things I had never considered.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then do explain what you think it is all about. We're listening.


Ask KPG. She called you an imbecile for saying it was about the housing crisis.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, let's face it. This is how racists talk.
> 
> What's she's really saying is that if blacks (even if it's Oprah) just kept their mouths shut and didn't point out racism, "we whites" wouldn't get so upset about it.
> 
> ...


I WAS WRONG, YES WRONG. I thought you couldn't make anymore of an ass of yourself than you already have, but here your are proving it can be done. Well done.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But can you specifically search for things you're interested in, not by broad category but specifically. If I wanted to see your stuff, how could I find it?


Yes, you can search. Just go to http://www.pinterest.com

There are tons of knitting and crocheting and other crafts -- and more food than I frankly care to see.And oh yes, there's a mommy cult. Mostly young LDS females I think, overeager to marry and reproduce and reproduce and reproduce and they post some of the most grotesque photos of nearly nude pregnant women or fully clothed with bellies highlighted who imagine their distended bellies are something pretty to look at and admire. It really is revolting, but fortunately there's not so much of that that it totally ruins the experience. You may not even find any.

Have fun.

Oh -- if you click on an image, you'll get that image enlarged on your screen and you can then click on the "website" button to go to the page featuring this image.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I WAS WRONG, YES WRONG. I thought you couldn't make anymore of an ass of yourself than you already have, but here your are proving it can be done. Well done.


 :-D


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I WAS WRONG, YES WRONG. I thought you couldn't make anymore of an ass of yourself than you already have, but here your are proving it can be done. Well done.


What a gracious admission of a mistake. Talk about making an ass of yourself.

You really were wrong - don't kid yourself.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There's something uncivilized about an educational system that's largely vocational school.


Yeah, pretty much by definition.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Just as with the media now being owned by, what?, six corporations, I would guess that fossil fuels are the same.
> If it weren't past my bedtime that would be a fun investigation.


Well, Janet, you're on the right track. I dunno if you found out already, but Freedom Industries has ties to -- who else? the fascist Koch Brothers.



> *WV: Freedom Industries Has Ties to Koch Brothers*
> From dharmafarmer at Daily Kos:
> Very briefly ...
> If news reports have left you with the impression that Freedom Industries - the company that has contaminated the water supply serving 300,000 people (and who knows how much wildlife) in nine West Virginia counties - is a rinky-dink Charleston operation, that might be because the media isn't mentioning its influential ties.
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But this is still the best:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If, as LL wrote, " The only people who "create" wealth are the people who are wealthy," what chance does anyone have who isn't wealthy? Why not just hand them money so they, too, can create wealth?
> 
> Of course, I'm kidding here because LL's statement is nonsense. But what you people seem to forget is that there's a condition between wealth and, as you so daintily put it, sitting on one's ass. People do work hard, and the ones who work hardest at physical labor are often the ones paid least. And don't bring up education, training, all the great things you tell other people to do to improve their lives. Not everyone is a good student, but everyone deserves a living wage. Not everyone has time for education because they're working multiple jobs - with a living wage they could find the free time to go to school. Not everyone is young enough to retrain for different kinds of work - after 40 or even 50 years of working at one job, what more would you expect (and sure, after 50 years they must be getting SS, but do you know what that pays? Hardly enough to live on, esp. if you don't get the max.).
> 
> I know you people don't like to hear about the poor and insist they're all lazy (and KPG seems to think the word "poor" is an insult or a curse), but they are all over, and if you don't want to have to step over their bodies in the street, you'd better consider giving them more to live on.


I have never insisted the poor are all lazy. Those are YOUR words and YOUR thoughts. I'm talking about choices that people have and the choices they make will affect their future. I never said they have to strive to be multi-millionaires to be successful. That seems to be the liberal talking point. That is a personal decision, one that varies with the individual. Not all good athletes will become a Tiger Woods, a Joe Theisman, a Michael Phelps or a Michael Jordan. That doesn't mean the person can't be successful, they just have to define what success is to them. You liberals don't want the poor to succeed, that requires that they put in the extra % and therefore you lose control of them. This seems to be the biggest fear of Democrats otherwise they wouldn't be promoting taking care of the individual from the cradle to the grave mindset.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Watch out, Patty. She's going to threaten that she won't read your messages any more.


Yes, and that _could_ make you ... yawn. Or maybe giggle. Or both?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I offered to stop being mean to you if you would stop making rude remarks. But apparently you can't help yourself.
> 
> You know nothing about how educated people behave, because you know almost nothing about any subject. The only original thought I've seen from you was that KPG is a "great" person, which I can't even imagine how to interpret.
> 
> Now go and ask someone smarter than you to explain this message to you.


How nice, your offering comes with strings attached. FYI, no one is forcing you to be mean, that is something you are doing freely and are now blaming LL for it. WOW.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAHAA, I did enjoy the snicker from that post.
> 
> Edit: well, if this little uneducated dolt got it, I am guessing that all those really, really, smart people did as well.
> 
> ...


It does seem that the idea of higher education is aimed at getting a job after all that "education" Nurturing an imagination is just as important, IMO. This touches on what some of the righties say about how we can chose to be successful. I don't think we can make certain kinds of choices without being able to image what we might want. Somehow, we have to be able to dream those big dreams before we try to make them real.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> *America is still a deeply racist country*
> By Chris Arnade, The Guardian
> Sunday, January 12, 2014 13:23 EST
> 
> ...


Great read. Thanks for posting it.

The part I re-quoted above outlines precisely why "tokens" are so useful in a society which fully intends to continue to be racist (or sexist, etc.).

There's a terrific book that has a lengthy section that explains racism and so much of how it works -- including tokenism -- just brilliantly. It's called _Homophobia: A Weapon of Sexism_ by Suzanne Pharr. Here's a link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1890759015/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=1890759015&linkCode=as2&tag=homremthawor-20

It's an absolutely superb book. I recommend it highly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

So far I'm not convinced. Rather than a bulletin board, it looks like my desk, with things I may want, but all jumbled together so I can't find them, paper piled on paper, though some are knitting patterns, some are critical articles, some are exercises from my PT. I think you have to be younger than I am to like it there. And I still didn't see a Search box, where I could at least limit what's thrown at me.


Knitry said:


> Yes, you can search. Just go to http://www.pinterest.com
> 
> There are tons of knitting and crocheting and other crafts -- and more food than I frankly care to see.And oh yes, there's a mommy cult. Mostly young LDS females I think, overeager to marry and reproduce and reproduce and reproduce and they post some of the most grotesque photos of nearly nude pregnant women or fully clothed with bellies highlighted who imagine their distended bellies are something pretty to look at and admire. It really is revolting, but fortunately there's not so much of that that it totally ruins the experience. You may not even find any.
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet, I was looking at your avatar and remembering that I wanted to say that I like it and say that mostly none of is self-sufficient. In the largest sense we are all interdependent. Some of the righties seem to believe that people are either dependent or independent which may be true to some extent but ultimately we all have something to contribute and we all need each other. IMO.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I WAS WRONG, YES WRONG. I thought you couldn't make anymore of an ass of yourself than you already have, but here your are proving it can be done. Well done.


She yells in the hopes that it will increase her chances of being believed -- especially that she's not racist.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> :thumbup:
> 
> Funny that anybody would think I don't like small business owners when my grandfather had one as does my brother. I would never wish harm on them. Unfortunately a lot of big businesses are the reason that mom and pop shops close. Just watch what happens and how many businesses close when a Walmart moves into an area.


On the other hand it's important to realize how many people actually want the WalMart to come into the community. On the other hand, let's just blame WalMart for everything it is so much easier.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, Janet, you're on the right track. I dunno if you found out already, but Freedom Industries has ties to -- who else? the fascist Koch Brothers.


Be careful what you say. I think they bought you three weeks ago.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Watch out, Patty. She's going to threaten that she won't read your messages any more.


But she will be lying.... :XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janet Cooke wrote:
Just as with the media now being owned by, what?, six corporations, I would guess that fossil fuels are the same. 
If it weren't past my bedtime that would be a fun investigation.


Well, Janet, you're on the right track. I dunno if you found out already, but Freedom Industries has ties to -- who else? the fascist Koch Brothers.

Quote:
WV: Freedom Industries Has Ties to Koch Brothers
From dharmafarmer at Daily Kos:
Very briefly ...
If news reports have left you with the impression that Freedom Industries - the company that has contaminated the water supply serving 300,000 people (and who knows how much wildlife) in nine West Virginia counties - is a rinky-dink Charleston operation, that might be because the media isn't mentioning its influential ties.
In 2008, Freedom Industries was specially selected by Georgia-Pacific Chemicals as a distributor of G-P's Talon brand mining reagents for West Virginia, Virginia, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Maryland, Minnesota, Kentucky and Michigan.
Georgia-Pacific Chemicals is, of course, a subsidiary of Georgia-Pacific, which was acquired by Koch Industries in 2005.

Knitry

Thanks, I had started on the trail twice and became suddenly distracted! I figured it was not the right time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, goodness. That led me to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This one got me going many mornings:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh, goodness. That led me to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So far I'm not convinced. Rather than a bulletin board, it looks like my desk, with things I may want, but all jumbled together so I can't find them, paper piled on paper, though some are knitting patterns, some are critical articles, some are exercises from my PT. I think you have to be younger than I am to like it there. And I still didn't see a Search box, where I could at least limit what's thrown at me.


Well, the last thing I want to do is encourage you to spend more time there since you seem allergic to my taste or something. However, I just want to point out that there's a Search box at the upper left corner, with helpful examples filled in: *ex: pie recipes, skiing*

I think the knitting and crochet boards -- which go on for miles and miles -- are fabulous. I think it's way more fun than Ravelry in that regard.

You can find anything you're interested in -- photography, jewelry, vacation spots and other destinations, food, food and more food, etc. etc.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I do know that not everyone is as visual as I am. Shrug.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> We have had family in The current conflict, gulf war, Vietnam war, WWII, WWI, Civil War, and even the revolutionary war. We have had at 2 generation of volunteer firefighters, and my grandmother was a volunteer firefight during the war. I think if we are using the status of our family's military service as a basis for being able to have an opinion (as has been implied several times in several posts), then you and I have a senior status . I'm also a pacifist, but do support those who follow their own beliefs. I say the pledge of allegiance but leave out "under God" as a show of respect to the author who never wanted it added during the shameful McCarthy years.
> 
> I've known lots of people who can't admit they are wrong or even that another's point just might have at least SOME validity. I was taught the care of the flag and the flag code in school and tested on it. Heck, I felt like a rebel when my kids got bathing suits with the colors on it! They did even closely resemble the flag either!
> 
> Oh well, guess today was a long post day for me too.


Out of all you've said here, the thing that means the most to me is the fact that you say the Pledge without the "under God" out of respect for the author. I've said, too many times, that those words were added to the Pledge in 1954. They ruin the real point of the Pledge , our indivisibility and our privileges of liberty and justice for all,and ruin the pace of it, too. IMO. I'm very opinionated this morning. :twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I have never insisted the poor are all lazy. Those are YOUR words and YOUR thoughts. I'm talking about choices that people have and the choices they make will affect their future. I never said they have to strive to be multi-millionaires to be successful. That seems to be the liberal talking point. That is a personal decision, one that varies with the individual. Not all good athletes will become a Tiger Woods, a Joe Theisman, a Michael Phelps or a Michael Jordan. That doesn't mean the person can't be successful, they just have to define what success is to them. You liberals don't want the poor to succeed, that requires that they put in the extra % and therefore you lose control of them. This seems to be the biggest fear of Democrats otherwise they wouldn't be promoting taking care of the individual from the cradle to the grave mindset.


I can't read most of this because it's so crowded. A paragraph or two would help.

As I recall, my message was about a living wage, which was clearly way over your head. You managed to miss everything but the last two lines. You claim to have Liberal friends (one of you guys does; maybe it's not you). Is that what they tell you Liberals want? Why would anyone who has a family want to take on the total responsibility for anyone else? We may disagree with you, but we're not imbiciles (as your leader spelled it when writing about you, specifically).

"I have never insisted the poor are all lazy. Those are YOUR words and YOUR thoughts." No, you may use different words, like education and retraining and lack of ambition, but your thoughts read "lazy" in neon. There's lots more, but since I'm using Edit to fill this out, I'll stop here.

Thank you for teaching me a very important thing: You don't know what you're talking about, and you don't want to know, but that will never stop you from talking.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> So far I'm not convinced. Rather than a bulletin board, it looks like my desk, with things I may want, but all jumbled together so I can't find them, paper piled on paper, though some are knitting patterns, some are critical articles, some are exercises from my PT. I think you have to be younger than I am to like it there. And I still didn't see a Search box, where I could at least limit what's thrown at me.


I have never quite got the point myself, just another form of seach engine. Hey, if people enjoy it, that works for them. 
I have people who show pinned items on FB. That's enough for me. I do wish they would stop writing to tell me who has signed up without any effort on my part.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't like this version.
> 
> This one is interesting:
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> On the other hand it's important to realize how many people actually want the WalMart to come into the community. On the other hand, let's just blame WalMart for everything it is so much easier.


Yes, and people can be relied on to eat things that are not good for them, drive too fast and without their seatbelts, and do many, many other things that are bad for them.

There's a lot WalMart can be blamed for -- including depressing wages and killing jobs so that people in the local community HAVE to shop there because that's all they can afford.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This one got me going many mornings:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> I do believe that the Bible has something in it about the true road is the hard and narrow and the wrong one the wide and easy. I'm to lazy right now to look it up.


This is a verse from a hymn I like that paraphrases the Biblical concept you're talking about.

Broad is the road that leads to death
And thousands walk together there
But wisdom shows a narrow path
With here and there a traveler

And a tangential verse form a hymn that I like a lot, too:

What a thoughtless wretch was I
To mourn and murmur and repine
To see the wicked placed on high
In pride and robes of honor shine
But oh, their end, their dreadful end
Thy sanctuary taught me so
On slippery rocks I see them stand 
And fiery billows roll below


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> It certainly wasn't poor folk lining up in CO for that million dollar day of sales the first day.
> I can't help thinking that a full on underground industry will continue because they have made it too expensive for many. I think I read that it was a 25% tax, give me a break.


Oh, let me put a stick in the hornet's nest. CO sucked in a ton of money in taxes on that legal marijuana. I think making marijuana legal with the same kinds of restrictions and regulations on its use like with booze would be a great way to rake in new tax dollars for the whole country. Every step of the process can be taxed, not just the retail end. Think of all that money!! The streets would be paved with gold, etc., etc.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, but the RWN"S here will tell you how good coal is for our country.


It is a good cheap source of energy. Without it our energy bills would skyrocket. But wait, Obama is intent on destroying the industry, so they will. He will destroy this industry without having anything to replace it with. Now that's sound reasoning.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Blah blah blah


I decided to repeat the middle paragraph of my message, the one you seemed not to understand, and I'll type it real sloooow so you can read it. I'll even divide it into paragraphs, so you can just pick out a sentence or two and ignore the rest:

What you people seem to forget is that there's a condition between wealth and, as you so daintily put it, sitting on one's ass. People do work hard, and the ones who work hardest at physical labor are often the ones paid least.

And don't bring up education, training, all the great things you tell other people to do to improve their lives. Not everyone is a good student, but everyone deserves a living wage. Not everyone has time for education because they're working multiple jobs - with a living wage they could find the free time to go to school.

Not everyone is young enough to retrain for different kinds of work - after 40 or even 50 years of working at one job, what more would you expect (and sure, after 50 years they must be getting SS, but do you know what that pays? Hardly enough to live on, esp. if you don't get the max.).


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, you got it, this young man's hometown is Sanford, FL. That same sweet town that let Treyvon Martin's killer off the hook with no charges brought.
> His new town is NYC, same sh** just colder.
> 
> America is still a deeply racist country
> ...


Absolutely, racism now is mostly done in "code" and in willful denials.

You know, the kind of person who thinks that Oprah can't tell the difference between a rude clerk and a racist clerk, because, those black people are hypersensitive and "see racism" whether it's there or not. Or the kind of person who thinks if Oprah just would've kept her mouth shut, all would be well. It's was Oprah's complaining that's the problem, not the racism of the clerk.

The kind of person who argues it's racist to even point out that someone is being racist.

The kind of person who says things like "I don't see color". The kind of person who thinks the way to be is "color blind", or who thinks society should be a melting pot instead of a salad.

THAT'S the kind of racism we have today. The people who deny it's there because it's not as obvious as "strange fruit" hanging from a tree, or the kind of people that thing the REAL racial problem in America to day is "_reverse_ racism". Racism against blacks is practically "over", and blacks and liberals complain too much about it --- but racism against whites... well that crap is REAL!

And one SURE FIRE way to spot a racist? When they use a term like "race card" or "racial grievance industry" or some variation thereof.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How nice, your offering comes with strings attached. FYI, no one is forcing you to be mean, that is something you are doing freely and are now blaming LL for it. WOW.


I answer in kind. I didn't offer her blanket niceness; it would have been tit-for-tat (though I don't like tatting). She made the decision for me.

And I love this. I wish I could keep it on my clipboard forever and keep sending it back to you: FYI, no one is forcing you to be mean, that is something you are doing freely.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I think it is just overwhelming for me, Knitry. I am not a fan of Ravelry either for that matter.



Knitry said:


> Well, the last thing I want to do is encourage you to spend more time there since you seem allergic to my taste or something. However, I just want to point out that there's a Search box at the upper left corner, with helpful examples filled in: *ex: pie recipes, skiing*
> 
> I think the knitting and crochet boards -- which go on for miles and miles -- are fabulous. I think it's way more fun than Ravelry in that regard.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> On the other hand it's important to realize how many people actually want the WalMart to come into the community. On the other hand, let's just blame WalMart for everything it is so much easier.


Just how many hands do you have?

Let's hear it: a big hand for the little lady!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> On the other hand it's important to realize how many people actually want the WalMart to come into the community. On the other hand, let's just blame WalMart for everything it is so much easier.


Why not? You blame President Obama and the Democrats for everything that's gone wrong in your life.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Absolutely, racism now is mostly done in "code" and in willful denials.
> 
> You know, the kind of person who thinks that Oprah can't tell the difference between a rude clerk and a racist clerk, because, those black people are hypersensitive and "see racism" whether it's there or not. Or the kind of person who thinks if Oprah just would've kept her mouth shut, all would be well. It's was Oprah's complaining that's the problem, not the racism of the clerk.
> 
> ...


I have subjected myself to close examination over the years to try to find and root out the deeply ingrained bits of racism that're part of the societal soup we're all swimming in. Sometimes it's surprising to find some little nugget that's still in place. More people should reflect deeply on how racism has become ever so subtly ingrained in them. IMO, again. Must be the season of the witch...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I answer in kind. I didn't offer her blanket niceness; it would have been tit-for-tat (though I don't like tatting). She made the decision for me.
> 
> And I love this. I wish I could keep it on my clipboard forever and keep sending it back to you: FYI, no one is forcing you to be mean, that is something you are doing freely.


Aint it the truth!!!!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitry said:


> We don't know how much money any of them have, but we do know this:
> 
> * they ain't willing to share -- esp. via taxes!!
> * they're holding on tight to every penny
> ...


I do not agree with what you have posted here.

We all pay taxes if we do not then we are either not working for a living or we can not work meaning we have some form of disability. If we did not the IRS would be waiting at our door steps.

No one on here knows how much one does or is willing to do to help the poor, unless they tell it on here. So you can not judge by that standard.

Never have held on to pennies, as my mother said if she had a dime she would spend a quarter meaning me. But I am wise enough when getting older to know that if I spend it all and do not pay what I owe I will be in default. I havae also learned the mean of a penny save is a penny earned.
I and my husband were help along the way by hard work. Even if you do not believe me that is your problem. We started out poor as all young couples do or most. We had to work for what we had. When husband was laid off, I went to work at minimum wage. We did with out a lot of things but we made sure what we did have went into paying bills and caring for our childrens needs. We were blessed with what we had and still shared with others.
We have been blessed through doing hard work and I was never paid above minmiun wages until my last job. I never felt poor nor did my children do with out. My children were expected to work when they reach their teens. Nothing is free in life as I wanted them to learn if you want something you have to work for it too. My oldest purchase his own car and it was paid for by the time he was 14. No he was not allowed to drive it until his learning permit. But was and am now very proud of him. They both were expect to learn and get good grades in school . They are both sucessful in their lives and work hard. My first was my pride and joy, the second was my love and laughter.

I do not mine helping people who deserve help. But what I have seen of some that claim to be poor. This is one example. I am stiing in parking lot. Brand new car pulls up women gets out and had what look like and expensive outfit, and child the same. Next car park next to me older car and women dress as others , not new but worn. Get in line to check out at store. New car lady welfare stamps, not many items that are good for one, off she goes. Lady with worn outfit good foods, and pays cash. I am not saying that all the poor are like that. But would think the goverment could have a way to weed out the really poor, and have more money to use to help them.
I will use the roads ect. as I and all the people I know on the right do also, just as I have seen on the left. 
Hard work never hurts anyone, poor middle class rich. 
You can not lump people into one post as we know we have to work for what we want and have. But darn it all, when I see someone use the system mean't to help the poor, and know that they are able to work, I get upset. Just thi;nk of all the money wasted on people who do not deserve it and could work. There would be so much more money that would really help those in need. 
So please do not lump the right as being uncaring or unkind and only think of themselves. They don't any more then you do.

Have to leave Hubby in a hurry off to garden center to see when to remove branches from apple tree.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I answer in kind. I didn't offer her blanket niceness; it would have been tit-for-tat (though I don't like tatting). She made the decision for me.
> 
> And I love this. I wish I could keep it on my clipboard forever and keep sending it back to you: FYI, no one is forcing you to be mean, that is something you are doing freely.


Spin it anyway you want, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself. Don't turn it around on me either. No one is making you be mean, it is your choice. You shouldn't have to require something from LL in return for not responding with a mean post. Either do it or not, don't blame others for your behavior.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> But she will be lying.... :XD:


and does it matter?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I do not agree with what you have posted here.
> 
> We all pay taxes if we do not then we are either not working for a living or we can not work meaning we have some form of disability. If we did not the IRS would be waiting at our door steps.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have subjected myself to close examination over the years to try to find and root out the deeply ingrained bits of racism that're part of the societal soup we're all swimming in. Sometimes it's surprising to find some little nugget that's still in place. More people should reflect deeply on how racism has become ever so subtly ingrained in them. IMO, again. Must be the season of the witch...


Well said. It's true, hardly, if any, of us escape some racist sentiment in ourselves because we live in such a racist society, some things seem benign because they're done so commonly and casually, but people need to actually be willing to THINK TWICE about things they may say or think or feel in regards to race.

The only way to be essentially (_not totally_) non-racist, is to acknowledge the permeation of racism in our society and how we ourselves can sometimes be unwitting accomplices ...IF we're not willing to pay attention and acknowledge it when it happens, even within ourselves.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, the last thing I want to do is encourage you to spend more time there since you seem allergic to my taste or something. However, I just want to point out that there's a Search box at the upper left corner, with helpful examples filled in: *ex: pie recipes, skiing*
> 
> I think the knitting and crochet boards -- which go on for miles and miles -- are fabulous. I think it's way more fun than Ravelry in that regard.
> 
> ...


Wow. I never thought to look up to the left (some symbolism, eh?). I kept searching for Search on the right, where it usually is.

Thank you. When I have time, I'll give it another chance.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Out of all you've said here, the thing that means the most to me is the fact that you say the Pledge without the "under God" out of respect for the author. I've said, too many times, that those words were added to the Pledge in 1954. They ruin the real point of the Pledge , our indivisibility and our privileges of liberty and justice for all,and ruin the pace of it, too. IMO. I'm very opinionated this morning. :twisted:


Why is this day different from all other days?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have never quite got the point myself, just another form of seach engine. Hey, if people enjoy it, that works for them.
> I have people who show pinned items on FB. That's enough for me. I do wish they would stop writing to tell me who has signed up without any effort on my part.


I have yet to see the point of Facebook, but I have no grandchildren, so maybe I haven't needed it yet. I get the same kinds of messages from Linked in. Who cares?

Actually, I discovered a cousin who lives outside the US on Linked in, so I guess I care.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I do not agree with what you have posted here.
> 
> We all pay taxes if we do not then we are either not working for a living or we can not work meaning we have some form of disability. If we did not the IRS would be waiting at our door steps.
> 
> ...


Would that "not all the poor are like that" be like not all middle class Americans are judgmental, presumptuous, greedy, bigots?
Did it ever occur to you that the woman borrowed someone's car to go shopping because she doesn't have one? Did it ever occur to you that the woman's parents gave her and her child those outfits?
Did it ever occur to you that this woman is married to a man who lost his job and she now has to use SNAP? Or that the woman you saw using cash had maybe spent all of her SNAP benefit for the month so she was using cash?
Did it occur to you that you had better ways to spend your time than to sit in a parking lot watching for "suspects" and then trail them in the store 'til they got to the cash register to spy on them? 
Didn't think so. Sad, sad, sad.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yeah, I watched that one just prior. LOL.
> 
> These songs bring up a lot of memories, but they tend to trigger that grief I'm going through since there's a lot of grief connected to that era.


Sorry. You're still mourning for your dog? My brother died nearly two years ago, and though I'm sad that he's gone, I never cry over him. But my cat who died 5 years ago - I still cry over her. And since her picture is my avatar here and on my email, I have many opportunities to cry.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, let me put a stick in the hornet's nest. CO sucked in a ton of money in taxes on that legal marijuana. I think making marijuana legal with the same kinds of restrictions and regulations on its use like with booze would be a great way to rake in new tax dollars for the whole country. Every step of the process can be taxed, not just the retail end. Think of all that money!! The streets would be paved with gold, etc., etc.


 or with grass.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It is a good cheap source of energy. Without it our energy bills would skyrocket. But wait, Obama is intent on destroying the industry, so they will. He will destroy this industry without having anything to replace it with. Now that's sound reasoning.


If all the mine workers had the ambition to find new work, the coal industry would die of itself. So let's keep wages low in order to keep coal cheap. That's even sounder reasoning.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Why is this day different from all other days?


OK, you got me. It isn't like other days. I am always opinionated. Way lots. Way, way lots. And not "H" about it, either. :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Absolutely, racism now is mostly done in "code" and in willful denials.
> 
> You know, the kind of person who thinks that Oprah can't tell the difference between a rude clerk and a racist clerk, because, those black people are hypersensitive and "see racism" whether it's there or not. Or the kind of person who thinks if Oprah just would've kept her mouth shut, all would be well. It's was Oprah's complaining that's the problem, not the racism of the clerk.
> 
> ...


Do people really say such things? Even here? Heavens to Betsy!
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> or with grass.


That would impact the shoe business. Might not be so good. But we could go barefoot all we wanted because the gardeners would be paid a lot to keep the grass in good condition. And, yes, i am ignoring the other meaning of the word grass for the sake of this silly response.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I have subjected myself to close examination over the years to try to find and root out the deeply ingrained bits of racism that're part of the societal soup we're all swimming in. Sometimes it's surprising to find some little nugget that's still in place. More people should reflect deeply on how racism has become ever so subtly ingrained in them. IMO, again. Must be the season of the witch...


I agree with you, Maid--anyone in our society who claims not to have a racist bone in their body in kidding themselves. We all (well, most of us) recognize that it's wrong and actively fight against those feelings, but they're there nonetheless.

I've noticed that driving--particularly when I'm stressed--brings whatever racist sentiments that linger within me to the surface. A dark-skinned driver cuts me off in traffic, and BOOM--a unpleasant thought about "those people" and the way they drive rises in me. It's almost like a reflex and not something I'm proud of.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

theyarnlady said:


> ....But darn it all, when I see someone use the system mean't to help the poor, and know that they are able to work, I get upset. Just thi;nk of all the money wasted on people who do not deserve it and could work. There would be so much more money that would really help those in need.
> So please do not lump the right as being uncaring or unkind and only think of themselves. They don't any more then you do.
> 
> Have to leave Hubby in a hurry off to garden center to see when to remove branches from apple tree.


Listen. I really get sick and tired of people, even the more needy among us, harping on the people who "scam" the welfare system as if anyone doing so are living like kings off of it.

Yes, sometimes people fraud the system and we should do what we can to weed them out.

But the truth of the matter is, I think it's ridiculous that we don't insist on a LIVING wage in this country, and I think every single person having to subsist on minimum wage is being ripped off and stolen from. I'm concerned about THAT sort of theft (_and yes, I consider it a kind of theft_), more than I am finding fault with those very people for cheating the system to get by.

I'm sorry, buy I HIGHLY doubt that the person in the higher quality clothes was some middle class person jiving the system. It's probably someone who might not QUITE qualify for food stamps, but none-the-less doesn't live very well and barely scrapes by.

And, I'm sorry, with the BILLIONS AND BILLIONS being stolen by various forms of corporate welfare and tax evasion, I just think it's ridiculous to focus so much upon people who are scraping by.

My priorities do not lie with focusing on the already disenfranchised.

When we fix the problems with the Donald Trumps and Mitt Romney's of the world making their money off the backs of regular people by paying near slave wages and/or benefiting from HUGE tax breaks and "iffy" legal loopholes that do not _REALLY_ benefit the economy in return, in that they take more than we receive.

When THOSE crooks get "checked", then maybe I'll worry about the single mother on food stamps who "dared" to buy herself a nice outfit.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I do not mine helping people who deserve help. But what I have seen of some that claim to be poor. This is one example. I am stiing in parking lot. Brand new car pulls up women gets out and had what look like and expensive outfit, and child the same. Next car park next to me older car and women dress as others , not new but worn. Get in line to check out at store. New car lady welfare stamps, not many items that are good for one, off she goes. Lady with worn outfit good foods, and pays cash. I am not saying that all the poor are like that. But would think the goverment could have a way to weed out the really poor, and have more money to use to help them.
> I will use the roads ect. as I and all the people I know on the right do also, just as I have seen on the left.


Some thoughtful comments, Yarnie. Thank for posting.

We can be relatively certain that some recipients of government aid are cheats--but who's to know for certain? I don't believe you can go by outward appearance--the well-dressed woman in the shiny new car may have received the clothes and the car as a gift from her husband, who then ran off with his secretary. Every story is different, and since it's impossible to know them all there doesn't seem to be much point in speculating and passing judgement. Food stamps and subsidized housing don't amount to enough to allow anyone to live well or extravagantly, that much is certain--and I'd rather support a few cheats than cut everyone off and have those in desperate circumstances suffer needlessly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Spin it anyway you want, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself. Don't turn it around on me either. No one is making you be mean, it is your choice. You shouldn't have to require something from LL in return for not responding with a mean post. Either do it or not, don't blame others for your behavior.


Being mean actually makes me feel bad, usually, at least after the fact. But I never saw so much nastiness and name-calling as I've found on some of these threads. In fact, some people call their own disciples "imbeciles." Do you not see how nasty you are? Or is it only Liberals who are mean?

As for LL, she strikes me as not very clever, so I sometimes wonder whether I've crossed a line with her. But then she shows me I haven't. Maybe she's smarter than she seems, so I needn't treat her differently from how I treat you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Spin it anyway you want, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself. Don't turn it around on me either. No one is making you be mean, it is your choice. You shouldn't have to require something from LL in return for not responding with a mean post. Either do it or not, don't blame others for your behavior.


Right back at you, Sweetie Pie.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That would impact the shoe business. Might not be so good. But we could go barefoot all we wanted because the gardeners would be paid a lot to keep the grass in good condition. And, yes, i am ignoring the other meaning of the word grass for the sake of this silly response.


Perfect!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Being mean actually makes me feel bad, usually, at least after the fact. But I never saw so much nastiness and name-calling as I've found on some of these threads. In fact, some people call their own disciples "imbeciles." Do you not see how nasty you are? Or is it only Liberals who are mean?


I noticed that little byplay, PP--good catch!

:thumbup:

That's one of the many drawbacks of using abusive language, I suppose: it's like firing buckshot, which may or may not hit the target but does blast the onlookers gathered around.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Listen. I really get sick and tired of people, even the more needy among us, harping on the people who "scam" the welfare system as if anyone doing so are living like kings off of it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes people fraud the system and we should do what we can to weed them out.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Right back at you, Sweetie Pie.


Yes indeed, you have a nerve expecting respect for respect given.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:



> I noticed that little byplay, PP--good catch!
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> That's one of the many drawbacks of using abusive language, I suppose: it's like firing buckshot, which may or may not hit the target but does blast the onlookers gathered around.


(as Dick Cheney could tell you if he'd admit to it.) It's also one of the drawbacks of shooting first and asking questions later. Neither KPG nor slowey has acknowledged it, which makes me want to keep pointing it out, though it's gotten beyond tedious.

I also saw how nice you were to Yarnie, even while pointing out her errors. Good for you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> (as Dick Cheney could tell you if he'd admit to it.) It's also one of the drawbacks of shooting first and asking questions later. Neither KPG nor slowey has acknowledged it, which makes me want to keep pointing it out, though it's gotten beyond tedious.
> 
> I also saw how nice you were to Yarnie, even while pointing out her errors. Good for you.


Thanks, Purl. I took a break from the thread yesterday and it did put me in a more benign mood--doesn't hurt, of course, that KPG is nowhere to be seen this morning.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Listen. I really get sick and tired of people, even the more needy among us, harping on the people who "scam" the welfare system as if anyone doing so are living like kings off of it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes people fraud the system and we should do what we can to weed them out.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Purl. I took a break from the thread yesterday and it did put me in a more benign mood--doesn't hurt, of course, that KPG is nowhere to be seen this morning.


I guess I picked up the slack with KPG yesterday. I responded to her several times. I took the walk of shame, but am now more strongly resolved to say absolutely nothing to her. I did pretty good for quite w while. Maybe we need a KPGaholics Anonymous (maybe that should be All-to-Non anonymous...) group here.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I do not agree with what you have posted here.


I'm so surprised.

Since you actually seem somewhat thoughtful, I'm going to go ahead and respond to your post. I consider it a test. Or perhaps experiment.



> I do not mine helping people who deserve help.


Well, that's a problem right there. I may come back and say more about it, but if not, let me just drop this thought: You will rarely be in a position to know who "deserves" the help. And that actually could serve as the theme for my whole post, or could even serve AS my whole post.



> But what I have seen of some that claim to be poor. This is one example. I am stiing in parking lot. Brand new car pulls up women gets out and had what look like and expensive outfit, and child the same. Next car park next to me older car and women dress as others , not new but worn. Get in line to check out at store. New car lady welfare stamps, not many items that are good for one, off she goes. Lady with worn outfit good foods, and pays cash. I am not saying that all the poor are like that. But would think the goverment could have a way to weed out the really poor, and have more money to use to help them.


The car may not have been hers. Could've been her boyfriend's, her boss's, her daughter's, a friend's. Could've been hers before she fell on hard times and needed food stamps. Could've been a gift. Could've been where she chose to put what money she does have instead of an apartment. (Sometimes -- not usually - the poor can afford an apartment OR a car, usually an old beat-up car, not both apartment and car.)

Maybe she won it.

Or the food stamps could belong to someone else -- her daughter, a friend, her mother or someone else she's caring for or helping, and she's just running an errand for them.

Or she could be fraudulently using Food Stamps. That happens, tho as with drug testing for welfare recipients, not nearly as often as most people on the right imagine.

But the main point is: YOU can never know for sure.



> But darn it all, when I see someone use the system mean't to help the poor, and know that they are able to work, I get upset. Just thi;nk of all the money wasted on people who do not deserve it and could work. There would be so much more money that would really help those in need.


Do you fret about wasteful and fraudulent defnse spending robbing taxpayers, and how much more money we'd have for the poor if we put a complete stop to that?

Do you condemn corporate tax loopholes that has some of our biggest corporations earning millions and billions in tax cuts while paying 0 taxes themselves? How much money would we have for the poor it that corruption ended?

Why must we so fiercely demonize "the poor" who have enough problems anyway? Trust me, they're not the ones who are the big problem.

Boy, when Reagan injected that "Welfare queen" meme into the public psyche, he (or more likely Lee Atwater) knew what he was doing: appealing to our native racism as a society -- 'cause it always feels so good to look down on others as inferior and therefore less equal --and creating a scapegoat for where to place the blame for just about any and all economic and social problems. And a handy distraction to roll out on an as-needed basis. But I digress.

Again: you cannot *know* if they're "able to work." Traumatic brain injury, for example, is completely invisible as is PTSD. PTSD in particular could be dangerous to the sufferer as well as any coworkers. We have a lot of those two things going around these days thanks to these ridiculous wars.

But there are also many other conditions that allow people look like they're far more "able to work" than they are. I, for example, recently got a handicapped tag. Am I handicapped? Not really, or at least I don't think of myself as handicapped, but I definitely fit one of the categories for getting the tag and I'm darned glad to have it. Even though I look able bodied enough to work (and certainly to walk), I'm not.



> So please do not lump the right as being uncaring or unkind and only think of themselves. They don't any more then you do.


I'm sorry, the people on this thread who identify as being "on the right" have simply proven you wrong, repeatedly. And your last sentence is just delusional.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

When I checked Wikipedia to make sure I had the right Republican in mind (I did), I found this quote from Lee Atwater from an article he wrote toward the end of his life :



> In a February 1991 article for Life magazine, Atwater wrote:
> 
> My illness helped me to see that what was missing in society is what was missing in me: a little heart, a lot of brotherhood. The '80s were about acquiring  acquiring wealth, power, prestige. I know. I acquired more wealth, power, and prestige than most. But you can acquire all you want and still feel empty. What power wouldn't I trade for a little more time with my family? What price wouldn't I pay for an evening with friends? It took a deadly illness to put me eye to eye with that truth, but it is a truth that the country, caught up in its ruthless ambitions and moral decay, can learn on my dime. I don't know who will lead us through the '90s, but they must be made to speak to this spiritual vacuum at the heart of American society, this tumor of the soul.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I'm sorry, the people on this thread who identify as being "on the right" have simply proven you wrong, repeatedly. And your last sentence is just delusional.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I guess I picked up the slack with KPG yesterday. I responded to her several times. I took the walk of shame, but am now more strongly resolved to say absolutely nothing to her. I did pretty good for quite w while. Maybe we need a KPGaholics Anonymous (maybe that should be All-to-Non anonymous...) group here.


Sound promising...in fact, I'll race you to the head of the line. I'm sick to death of the way KPG has managed to dominate the thread with quarrels and arguments about who said what and when and how. It's infuriating--and boring as heck.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> *My priorities do not lie with focusing on the already disenfranchised.*
> 
> When we fix the problems with the Donald Trumps and Mitt Romney's of the world making their money off the backs of regular people by paying near slave wages and/or benefiting from HUGE tax breaks and "iffy" legal loopholes that do not _REALLY_ benefit the economy in return, in that they take more than we receive.
> 
> When THOSE crooks get "checked", then maybe I'll worry about the single mother on food stamps who "dared" to buy herself a nice outfit.


Well said, again, and I particularly loved the sentence I put in bold.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I guess I picked up the slack with KPG yesterday. I responded to her several times. I took the walk of shame, but am now more strongly resolved to say absolutely nothing to her. I did pretty good for quite w while. Maybe we need a KPGaholics Anonymous (maybe that should be All-to-Non anonymous...) group here.


One day at a time, Empress, one day at a time, the warm up team is here now. It reminds me of the comedy club, the lesser talent comes out puts a smile on your face in preparation for the real talent. The only difference is that this works in reverse.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry. You're still mourning for your dog?


It hasn't been a week yet. So, yes, off and on I am still grieving for my beautiful sweet dog.



> My brother died nearly two years ago, and though I'm sad that he's gone, I never cry over him. But my cat who died 5 years ago - I still cry over her. And since her picture is my avatar here and on my email, I have many opportunities to cry.


I'm sorry for both your losses. I love the picture of your cat. She looks like a real sweetie.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Purl. I took a break from the thread yesterday and it did put me in a more benign mood--doesn't hurt, of course, that KPG is nowhere to be seen this morning.


Another good catch for the Empress is that the witching hour is 8 PM. It calms at that point; now there's something to look forward to.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Spin it anyway you want, as long as it makes you feel better about yourself. Don't turn it around on me either. No one is making you be mean, it is your choice. You shouldn't have to require something from LL in return for not responding with a mean post. Either do it or not, don't blame others for your behavior.


Let's be clear. People who don't deserve respect because of the way THEY behave toward others aren't entitled to said respect and not likely to get it. Purl gave LL a chance to be dealt with respectfully again -- she declined.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> One day at a time, Empress, one day at a time, the warm up team is here now. It reminds me of the comedy club, the lesser talent comes out puts a smile on your face in preparation for the real talent. The only difference is that this works in reverse.


Yes, indeed, one day at a time. Sometimes one word of one post at a time. Also, teeny, tiny baby steps.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yes, indeed, one day at a time. Sometimes one word of one post at a time. Also, teeny, tiny baby steps.


Here's


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yes, indeed, one day at a time. Sometimes one word of one post at a time. Also, teeny, tiny baby steps.


hoping.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another good catch for the Empress is that the witching hour is 8 PM. It calms at that point; now there's something to look forward to.


That's often the time I come back on after the AM, and checking in during the day as I check email, etc. It's a little online detour to come here for a few minutes during the day.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another good catch for the Empress is that the witching hour is 8 PM. It calms at that point; now there's something to look forward to.


Thanks for the tip, Janet. Praise be the electronic babysitter!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Listen. I really get sick and tired of people, even the more needy among us, harping on the people who "scam" the welfare system as if anyone doing so are living like kings off of it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes people fraud the system and we should do what we can to weed them out.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Sorry, can't help myself. It's all Purl's fault for dropping me off in Pinterest where I started reading this board:

http://www.pinterest.com/BudleySalterton/just-sayin-politics/

and found this which seemed somehow apropos to this thread for some unfathomable reason. From our old friend Ralph Waldo Emerson.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This gentleman is very interesting. Read for as long as you can bear to.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/garrow-obama-deserves-be-killed-treason

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/jim-garrow-pete-santilli-now-openly-calling-military-coup-against-obama

http://www.examiner.com/article/jim-garrow-obama-is-on-the-edge-of-being-mentally-ill


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'm sorry, the people on this thread who identify as being "on the right" have simply proven you wrong, repeatedly. And your last sentence is just delusional.


wrong quote


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> wrong quote


Happens to all of us, you know what they say... if at first you don't succeed...


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

and another


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> When I checked Wikipedia to make sure I had the right Republican in mind (I did), I found this quote from Lee Atwater from an article he wrote toward the end of his life :


A great quote.

Being rich means many things to many people. To me, being rich, is sitting on the swing with my husband on a warm Summers evening. Just swinging, listening to the birds and the crickes as we watch the sun go down. Now that's a kind of wealth that no amount of money can buy...


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You are just assuming it is a racist thing with the store clerk. You know nothing about her or the way she interacts with people, past or present. She is white, so by not showing a black customer the bag, she is automatically a racist.
> 
> The whole thing would have been a non issue had not Oprah told the story, her side, in an interview months after the fact. Certainly it was a cry for attention from Oprah.


Are you serious? Like Oprah needs attention? What needs attention is how people of different races are treated differently, and I have seen many examples of such treatment. Whatever it is you're smoking, you really need to share it.

Reminds me...on a recent Judge Judy, a plaintiff brought an "expert" witness named Dr. Solowey with her to bolster her case. Judge Judy handed the "expert" witness said witness's
posterior on the proverbial plate. Now, "Solowey" is a rather unusual name. Perchance, are you a chiropractor who is also an "expert" witness?

Karen N.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Are you serious? Like Oprah needs attention? What needs attention is how people of different races are treated differently, and I have seen many examples of such treatment. Whatever it is you're smoking, you really need to share it.
> 
> Reminds me...on a recent Judge Judy, a plaintiff brought an "expert" witness named Dr. Solowey with her to bolster her case. Judge Judy handed the "expert" witness said witness's
> posterior on the proverbial plate. Now, "Solowey" is a rather unusual name. Perchance, are you a chiropractor who is also an "expert" witness?
> ...


Thanks for weighing in, Karen.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> So far I'm not convinced. Rather than a bulletin board, it looks like my desk, with things I may want, but all jumbled together so I can't find them, paper piled on paper, though some are knitting patterns, some are critical articles, some are exercises from my PT. I think you have to be younger than I am to like it there. And I still didn't see a Search box, where I could at least limit what's thrown at me.


I've looked a little on Pintrest, but the problem I had was I would see an awesome picture of something but there would be no pattern or recipe and I would be frustrated! Lol


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> On the other hand it's important to realize how many people actually want the WalMart to come into the community. On the other hand, let's just blame WalMart for everything it is so much easier.


My dear, I don't blame wal-mart for everything, I think this may even be the first time I mentioned them here. I was using them as a well known example of a big business moving into the area and the effect on smaller businesses. Heck, I lived I'm a community that had a new wal- mart open in the area. However a lot of residents were opposed to it, so many it held up the permit approvals by years. A lot of the mom and pops shops had already taken a dive business-wise but it was due to other "big business" chains moving in.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> When I checked Wikipedia to make sure I had the right Republican in mind (I did), I found this quote from Lee Atwater from an article he wrote toward the end of his life :


I recall his change of heart. It seems only we on the left recall it; the right have no interest. Look at Roger Ailes, who was associated with Atwater. As bad as ever.

There was a senator recently who noted that when he had a serious problem (I think his son died, but not sure), Democrats showed him far more concern than members of his own party. Democrats may or may not have warmer hearts, but they have the grace to show empathy. The GOP certainly has colder cash, but their only grace is what their church grants them


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that "not all the poor are like that" be like not all middle class Americans are judgmental, presumptuous, greedy, bigots?
> Did it ever occur to you that the woman borrowed someone's car to go shopping because she doesn't have one? Did it ever occur to you that the woman's parents gave her and her child those outfits?
> Did it ever occur to you that this woman is married to a man who lost his job and she now has to use SNAP? Or that the woman you saw using cash had maybe spent all of her SNAP benefit for the month so she was using cash?
> Did it occur to you that you had better ways to spend your time than to sit in a parking lot watching for "suspects" and then trail them in the store 'til they got to the cash register to spy on them?
> Didn't think so. Sad, sad, sad.


What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.

Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sound promising...in fact, I'll race you to the head of the line. I'm sick to death of the way KPG has managed to dominate the thread with quarrels and arguments about who said what and when and how. It's infuriating--and boring as heck.


That's her worst sin: repetition and tedium. Okay, she has worse sins, but that bothers me most.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Let's be clear. People who don't deserve respect because of the way THEY behave toward others aren't entitled to said respect and not likely to get it. Purl gave LL a chance to be dealt with respectfully again -- she declined.


Thank you. But since she'll never read my messages again, I never have to be respectful to her again.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> hoping.


Oh, wow! HAHAHAHAHAAAAA.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Absolutely, racism now is mostly done in "code" and in willful denials.
> 
> You know, the kind of person who thinks that Oprah can't tell the difference between a rude clerk and a racist clerk, because, those black people are hypersensitive and "see racism" whether it's there or not. Or the kind of person who thinks if Oprah just would've kept her mouth shut, all would be well. It's was Oprah's complaining that's the problem, not the racism of the clerk.
> 
> ...


Well I don't "see color" in people and am not racist. But you know when I do notice it? I notice it when people are being treated differently and I question why and THEN I realize they are of a minority color. I'll never forget my moment of "enlightenment" during the OJ Simpson trials. I heard people talking about it (we didn't watch much tv at the time) and someone mentioned something about him getting off because of his race. I literally had to stop for a moment because I went, "wait he's black?". Lol.

However even though I don't "see color" when looking at people (but it could be partially due to the fact that I had such poor eyesight as a child and didn't wear my glasses all the time so I couldnt see much of anything, lol) I sure as hell see racism. Of course it could be because racism is so glaring and ugly. It doesn't always come in the obvious form either. I won't forget some things, like one person at work talking about a friend of mine and her grandchild who was biracial. She asked me what I thought of biracial people. I just shrugged and said I don't care. She then told me how she didn't agree with it, ect. But to the person's face she was all sweetness and light. She didn't realize we were friends at that point.

Then another person at work who would be "so proud" of her grandchild (a different person) and show pictures to white people made not so nice comments. One she made to me was that he was "Italian" . I was just like, "oh ok," because I didn't even register anything "unusual" about him (come on, who would even want to look at color when there is that cute little baby face!). She then had to explain to me, quietly and shamefully, that it was code for biracial. She then actually made fun of her own freaking grandchild with other people there!

I definately see racism, and it's just pathetic. It's a sad commentary on our society that we allow this to still happen and try to hide it or shove it under the rug.

I don't use terms like reverse racism or the "race card " unless I'm talking about something another person says, usually someone who is sayinging they aren't racist or justifying it.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'm sorry, the people on this thread who identify as being "on the right" have simply proven you wrong, repeatedly. And your last sentence is just delusional.


to answer you with out being unkind .

Why are you surprised? We are not hateful right left or independant about caring for others. 
I have a right to my opinion and did not attack you in any way.

I stand by my words " I do not mine helping people who deserve help." You do not know me or what I do to make sure others who need help are help.

As to what I saw you may be right. But if they were not her food stamps then it is consired a crime. If she was using them to get for a friend or family that is a different matter. But her food choice is a matter. There are cheap and good foods out there that one can purchases. Chips, soda, snack foods ect are not what should have been bought.

I do not like the way our goverement spends or feel that they are allowed to fund any or everything that this country does not need. They think all of them that they are in a candy store and can use it for their own needs, or to appease the people in their state or some lobbist. But I do want my goverment all of them to find away to check who is deserving of help in this country. Not just hand over the money to ones who do not have or need it. You can not tell me that you have not seen or heard of this happening. If so you must not be paying attention.

I have not demonize "THE POOR", I have said I do not want the monies wasted on those who do not need it or are not willing to work for it.

As to just blaming the right for this I have seen both Repub. and Dem's , Indep. look down on the poor. No side is with out fault on that one. Rich and middle class even the poor who do work there will always be some who do not care what happens to the very poor.
But I have also seen, Rich, poor and middle class care more than some want to admit and do help those in need. This country has always had a giving heart. If not why do we also see to helping other countrys who need help too.

Again I did not say anything about who deserves to be help. I am talking about people who use the system to live a life style that they could well work for. That is why I want my goverment to regulate and look into who needs and who doesn't need. When on the news , and I mean national news of people in prison receive welfare that shouldn't or the women who goes out and is collecting welfare and owns more than two houses, and then lives in a mansion. Please where is that a need ??? There has been welfare freud going on since it was started. Why was there not put into place a system to check this. Wouldn't it be better to have had this money go to people who need it???? You can not tell me you have not seen or heard of abuses in the system.

I do not fault you with what you have going on in your life and am glad you were able to abtain help that you needed. But do you not want also to see those who need it recieve that help too.There are so many who deserve that kind of help and do not recieve it. My friend was one of them. She needed that kind of help, but did not recieve it. Why, well I would like to know too. As at that time I live in a small town and I do mean small and I wish you could have seen the ones that did get help. They were lazy, and thought that the world owed them something. 
My friend died before she was able to get the help she needed, and it was happening with a governer who was a Dem. So do not tell me that only the left care for the poor. Not all of them do. If it had not been for the people aaround her and her friend helping her as much as we could she would have am sure ended up homeless. But that is another matter.
As for Iowa and the man who said just black and white. That is his opinion and not mine. Plus it is not just a black and white issue there are people of other nationality who need help too in this country. Seem some forget that.

And I do not agree with you about your picture of just liberal caring about the poor.

Nor do I agree with you that the people who are on the right on this thread do not care about the poor or what is going on in this country any more than I think the ladies on here from the left do not care what happens to the poor or what is going on with our goverment.
So if that makes me delusional, then good for me. I don't see it as you do black and white. There are grey areas too.
We all have to live the best way we can as to what we see, learn ect. Not always right but trying. So yea I take your thinking of me as delusional. I know you meant it as something to be nasty to me. But I would rather be delusional then so angry at one's beliefs that are to me very onesided.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Sorry, can't help myself. It's all Purl's fault for dropping me off in Pinterest where I started reading this board:
> 
> http://www.pinterest.com/BudleySalterton/just-sayin-politics/
> 
> and found this which seemed somehow apropos to this thread for some unfathomable reason. From our old friend Ralph Waldo Emerson.


Very very apropos.

Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted. My respect for Emerson has been growing even stronger. He seems to understand everything that's important* and to state it perfectly.

(*Except when he visited Thoreau in jail and asked how come HDT was there, to which HDT responded by asking how come RWE was not.)


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.
> 
> Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


Oh!......Pardon me!.......I thought you were telling us what it is you do with yourself every day. Then I got to the "I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day." And realized it was you throwing barbs at the decent people of this thread. My bad! You go on back to your long day of finding people and things to write hateful comments about.... :wink:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> This gentleman is very interesting. Read for as long as you can bear to.
> 
> http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/garrow-obama-deserves-be-killed-treason
> 
> ...


Interesting as a train wreck, and I can't take too many of those, either.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> A great quote.
> 
> Being rich means many things to many people. To me, being rich, is sitting on the swing with my husband on a warm Summers evening. Just swinging, listening to the birds and the crickes as we watch the sun go down. Now that's a kind of wealth that no amount of money can buy...


How I envy you. I don't think the 1% could do better.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Are you serious? Like Oprah needs attention? What needs attention is how people of different races are treated differently, and I have seen many examples of such treatment. Whatever it is you're smoking, you really need to share it.
> 
> Reminds me...on a recent Judge Judy, a plaintiff brought an "expert" witness named Dr. Solowey with her to bolster her case. Judge Judy handed the "expert" witness said witness's
> posterior on the proverbial plate. Now, "Solowey" is a rather unusual name. Perchance, are you a chiropractor who is also an "expert" witness?
> ...


Welcome, Karen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.
> 
> Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


"I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day." Seems to me you manage to live like that quite well.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that "not all the poor are like that" be like not all middle class Americans are judgmental, presumptuous, greedy, bigots?
> Did it ever occur to you that the woman borrowed someone's car to go shopping because she doesn't have one? Did it ever occur to you that the woman's parents gave her and her child those outfits?
> Did it ever occur to you that this woman is married to a man who lost his job and she now has to use SNAP? Or that the woman you saw using cash had maybe spent all of her SNAP benefit for the month so she was using cash?
> Did it occur to you that you had better ways to spend your time than to sit in a parking lot watching for "suspects" and then trail them in the store 'til they got to the cash register to spy on them?
> Didn't think so. Sad, sad, sad.


Or they had bought the "new car" at a police auction after it had been confiscated in a drug bust?

Or the woman had lucked out at a second hand shop and had gotten "new" looking clothes?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh!......Pardon me!.......I thought you were telling us what it is you do with yourself every day. Then I got to the "I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day." And realized it was you throwing barbs at the decent people of this thread. My bad! You go on back to your long day of finding people and things to write hateful comments about.... :wink:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> ... feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that ...


You coulda fooled me. Shrug.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> to answer you with out being unkind .
> 
> Why are you surprised? We are not hateful right left or independant about caring for others.
> I have a right to my opinion and did not attack you in any way.
> ...


Of course there are some big-time welfare cheats, and I doubt anyone here supports that sort of thing. People who lie about their income, work under the table, collect under multiple names etc etc, are prosecuted when caught--and that's as it should be.

But you appear seem to be talking a different kind of person who collects government assistance--the man or woman who uses food stamps but nonetheless dresses nicely, owns a cell phone, and so on. If you knew how they acquired those things and all of it was legal (gifts, the remnants of a previously comfortable lifestyle, items from a thrift shop), would it still bother you?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I recall his change of heart. It seems only we on the left recall it; the right have no interest. Look at Roger Ailes, who was associated with Atwater. As bad as ever.
> 
> There was a senator recently who noted that when he had a serious problem (I think his son died, but not sure), Democrats showed him far more concern than members of his own party. Democrats may or may not have warmer hearts, but they have the grace to show empathy. The GOP certainly has colder cash, but their only grace is what their church grants them


I don't ever see anything like that happening to Ailes -- there's no terminal disease terminal enough or disease-ish enough to give him a change of heart.

The Republican you had in mind was James Inhofe:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/22/jim-inhofe-democrats_n_4489794.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I'm sorry, the people on this thread who identify as being "on the right" have simply proven you wrong, repeatedly. And your last sentence is just delusional.


And don't forget that people with serious diseases can had "good days" too. You never know if you are seeing them on the one day a month or even in months that they have been able to get out. It's not really fair to judge them without full knowledge, or just on one single day.

Let's see a list of "invisible illnesses"

Lupus

Multiple sclerosis

Migraines (and not all are simple headaches, some cause people to basically look and act like they are having a stroke, or cause sudden blindness, or cause the legs to suddenly give out, ect)

Epilepsy

These are only four more, and not one is "visible" as other illnesses are (well in advance stages MS can show in the wheelchair use, ect, but most of it is invisible)


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You coulda fooled me. Shrug.


Well, it looks like she's learned something from the things we've been saying. She's learned how decent people talk and act, and has taken that persona as her own. :roll:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Again I did not say anything about who deserves to be help. I am talking about people who use the system to live a life style that they could well work for. That is why I want my goverment to regulate and look into who needs and who doesn't need. When on the news , and I mean national news of people in prison receive welfare that shouldn't or the women who goes out and is collecting welfare and owns more than two houses, and then lives in a mansion. Please where is that a need ??? There has been welfare freud going on since it was started. Why was there not put into place a system to check this. Wouldn't it be better to have had this money go to people who need it???? You can not tell me you have not seen or heard of abuses in the system.


Yes, I have heard of abuses. But it's not likely the lady in the nice dress who's doing it, and it just doesn't consume me. I will NOT stoop so low as to begrudge welfare to all the rest because of the actions of a very few. Nor will I allow myself to get drawn into discussions in my head about whether this or that person really deserves the meager crumbs they might be getting from the wealth and bounty that is this nation (for a while longer, anyway).

And in truth, the real fraud is done by people who make a TON of money off it and they are few and far between.



> So yea I take your thinking of me as delusional. I know you meant it as something to be nasty to me. But I would rather be delusional then so angry at one's beliefs that are to me very onesided.


You misunderstood -- I said this last sentence (of the two I'm requoting here) was delusional:



> So please do not lump the right as being uncaring or unkind and only think of themselves. They don't any more then you do.


I didn't say I thought YOU were delusional about anything else or even all of it. Your last sentence, as I interpreted it, said that the right was no more unkind, uncaring or thinking only of themselves than I or all of us on the left, whichever (and it's not important which). Based on the contents of this thread alone, that is simply demonstrably untrue.

What I will acknowledge is that NOT EVERYONE on the right -- perhaps not including you, for example -- is unkind, uncaring or thinks only of themselves. But I see way too much of that on this thread for my taste.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> But you appear seem to be talking a different kind of person who collects government assistance--the man or woman who uses food stamps but nonetheless dresses nicely, owns a cell phone, and so on. *If you knew how they acquired those things and all of it was legal (gifts, the remnants of a previously comfortable lifestyle, items from a thrift shop), would it still bother you?*


Now THAT's the question: just how much punishment do we want them to endure because they are poor? I've heard rightwing pundits suggesting that because they own TVs and smartphones, have washing machines or microwaves, etc., that they don't deserve food stamps. IOW: these things prevent them from being down-and-out ENOUGH for Republican tastes.

Frankly, I'm thrilled when people who are in or near poverty have a smartphone. Why? Because I've been deeply concerned about "the digital divide," where people didn't own computers, didn't know how to use them, and basically had no way of getting informed on anything because TV sure ain't a good way to learn about what's happening in the world, just a good way to be entertained. Once I understood that they were getting and using smartphones, I stopped worrying quite so much.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> (*Except when he visited Thoreau in jail and asked how come HDT was there, to which HDT responded by asking how come RWE was not.)


Hahah. Thanks for reminding me of that.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.
> 
> Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


Does this woman claim to be a Christian?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, you got it, this young man's hometown is Sanford, FL. That same sweet town that let Treyvon Martin's killer off the hook with no charges brought.
> His new town is NYC, same sh** just colder.
> 
> America is still a deeply racist country
> ...


I'm glad I didn't overlook this while trying to catch up. Thanks for posting. Too bad it won't be read by certain people.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Oh!......Pardon me!.......I thought you were telling us what it is you do with yourself every day. Then I got to the "I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day." And realized it was you throwing barbs at the decent people of this thread. My bad! You go on back to your long day of finding people and things to write hateful comments about.... :wink:


Hey, she implies that she believes that I pray. That's something!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> My dear, I don't blame wal-mart for everything, I think this may even be the first time I mentioned them here. I was using them as a well known example of a big business moving into the area and the effect on smaller businesses. Heck, I lived I'm a community that had a new wal- mart open in the area. However a lot of residents were opposed to it, so many it held up the permit approvals by years. A lot of the mom and pops shops had already taken a dive business-wise but it was due to other "big business" chains moving in.


I think the general term for businesses like Wal-Mart is "big box store", and they often have a negative impact on small businesses in the areas they move into. I've heard a few news stories in the past year or so about neighborhood businesses protesting the possible entrance of a big-box store near them.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> to answer you with out being unkind .
> 
> Why are you surprised? We are not hateful right left or independant about caring for others.
> I have a right to my opinion and did not attack you in any way.
> ...


Well, who could argue with that?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Just how many hands do you have?
> 
> Let's hear it: a big hand for the little lady!


Stop! You're making me giggle and I'm sitting in the doctor's office. Other waitees are looking at me!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Oh!......Pardon me!.......I thought you were telling us what it is you do with yourself every day. Then I got to the "I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day." And realized it was you throwing barbs at the decent people of this thread. My bad! You go on back to your long day of finding people and things to write hateful comments about.... :wink:


Who was it who promised yesterday to never read my posts again? I wish she would pass along the pledge paper.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Ahhh, here's another one that seems applicable to some of the discussions in this thread:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Now THAT's the question: just how much punishment do we want them to endure because they are poor? I've heard rightwing pundits suggesting that because they own TVs and smartphones, have washing machines or microwaves, etc., that they don't deserve food stamps. IOW: these things prevent them from being down-and-out ENOUGH for Republican tastes.


I think you've hit it, Knitry. Some really do want their fellow Americans to live in unimaginable misery rather than accept government assistance. I suppose they feel somehow that it's character building--but I don't buy it, particularly when children are involved. Just from a dollar and cents perspective it's illogical--children who don't eat well do poorly in school. Undernourished women give birth to frail, sickly infants who may require a lifetime of medical intervention and treatment. And one of the lessons learned from the Great Depression was that the economy takes a nosedive when folks cut their spending to a bare minimum and try to live off stale bread and watery soup.

I don't credit even the Democrat leaders with unusually warm generous hearts because they're willing to increase the budget for food stamps and extend unemployment aid. They do it because it makes economic sense.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Here are some more people who've made poor life choices:



> USA Today had an article on how boomers are dropping out of the job market.
> Article made it sound like Boomers were just dropping out because they want to.
> 
> Another friend of mine just got terminated on Thursday. Everyone I know has been terminated.
> ...


Seems her problem-- her poor life choice -- was living as long as she did.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't credit even the Democrats with unusually warm generous hearts because they're willing to increase the budget for food stamps and extend unemployment aid. They do it because it makes economic sense.


Some of them are quite compassionate, others not so much. But hey, whatever works!

In the meantime, another aspect is that the Republicans do not WANT the economy to work, not if it would give any credit whatsoever to Obama. Further, they are perfectly happy to "punish" those people and states who voted for Obama. "You want government to work (at all)? Then don't elect a Democrat. But if you do, make darned sure it's not a half black one."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Here are some more people who've made poor life choices:
> 
> Seems her problem-- her poor life choice -- was living as long as she did.


I'm sure my BIL knows where this woman is coming from--after almost twenty years of service at a bank he got canned after being careless enough to develope prostrate cancer. Seems those pesky operations and chemo treatments hindered his job performance. :hunf:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Some of them are quite compassionate, others not so much. But hey, whatever works!
> 
> In the meantime, another aspect is that the Republicans do not WANT the economy to work, not if it would give any credit whatsoever to Obama. Further, they are perfectly happy to "punish" those people and states who voted for Obama. "You want government to work (at all)? Then don't elect a Democrat. But if you do, make darned sure it's not a half black one."


I know--but those stubborn spoiled children in Congress had better chart a new course for themselves...and soon. Obama won't be President forever, and there's no absolute guarantee that another Democrat will take the White House. If the economy is in utter shambles by 2016 and Christie or someone like that is President, they're going to have a hard time persuading folks that it's all Obama's fault.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Stop! You're making me giggle and I'm sitting in the doctor's office. Other waitees are looking at me!


Oh now, alcameron, you know that is NOT possible. You are really sitting in your lonely bedroom just waiting, no praying, for someone to make you giggle.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Now THAT's the question: just how much punishment do we want them to endure because they are poor? I've heard rightwing pundits suggesting that because they own TVs and smartphones, have washing machines or microwaves, etc., that they don't deserve food stamps. IOW: these things prevent them from being down-and-out ENOUGH for Republican tastes.
> 
> Frankly, I'm thrilled when people who are in or near poverty have a smartphone. Why? Because I've been deeply concerned about "the digital divide," where people didn't own computers, didn't know how to use them, and basically had no way of getting informed on anything because TV sure ain't a good way to learn about what's happening in the world, just a good way to be entertained. Once I understood that they were getting and using smartphones, I stopped worrying quite so much.


The only person I know who has a Lifeline phone only has this little tiny phone. She may have a dataplan. I never asked, because, I don't really think that it my business to ask about her "free phone". Her partner mentioned that she often uses his phone with unlimited service in order to save her minutes. I gotta tell you, you wouldn't want to try to read anything from the internet on that phone.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know--but those stubborn spoiled children in Congress had better chart a new course for themselves...and soon. Obama won't be President forever, and there's no absolute guarantee that another Democrat will take the White House. If the economy is in utter shambles by 2016 and Christie or someone like that is President, they're going to have a hard time persuading folks that it's all Obama's fault.


Say it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I didn't say I thought YOU were delusional about anything else or even all of it. Your last sentence, as I interpreted it, said that the right was no more unkind, uncaring or thinking only of themselves than I or all of us on the left, whichever (and it's not important which). Based on the contents of this thread alone, that is simply demonstrably untrue.
> 
> What I will acknowledge is that NOT EVERYONE on the right -- perhaps not including you, for example -- is unkind, uncaring or thinks only of themselves. But I see way too much of that on this thread for my taste.


Knitry, I think you need to work on your sense of charity. You don't like me because I misunderstood ONE post you wrote and responded to it as if you were serious. As far as I could tell, you immediately classified me as a fool when you read my post. You punched back, I punched back harder and so the thing went.

You seem to have found it easy to criticize what Yarnie has had to say right from word one. She's actually a pretty decent human being, and if the two of you believe different things, so what? Do you really want to keep the dance the KPG so loves alive and well here?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Say it.


?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I have been thinking about this subject for a week or so -- how expensive it is to BE poor -- and am delighted I ran across this article by the author of _Nickled and Dimed_, which was a topic of discussion recently. This is VERY enlightening -- and heartbreaking, IMO.



> *It Is Expensive to Be Poor
> Minimum-wage jobs are physically demanding, have unpredictable schedules, and pay so meagerly that workers can't save up enough to move on.*
> 
> For most women in poverty, in both good times and bad, the shortage of money arises largely from inadequate wages. When I worked on my book, Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America, I took jobs as a waitress, nursing-home aide, hotel housekeeper, Wal-Mart associate, and a maid with a house-cleaning service. I did not choose these jobs because they were low-paying. I chose them because these are the entry-level jobs most readily available to women.
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The only person I know who has a Lifeline phone only has this little tiny phone. She may have a dataplan. I never asked, because, I don't really think that it my business to ask about her "free phone". Her partner mentioned that she often uses his phone with unlimited service in order to save her minutes. I gotta tell you, you wouldn't want to try to read anything from the internet on that phone.


Well, clearly I'm talking about a level of "poor" that's somewhere above that. Thanks for the info.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure my BIL knows where this woman is coming from--after almost twenty years of service at a bank he got canned after being careless enough to develope prostrate cancer. Seems those pesky operations and chemo treatments hindered his job performance. :hunf:


I guess the ricks were not all in the Republican primaries.
I don't think we need a razzzzzzzzzzberry, I think we need a middle finger.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Well, clearly I'm talking about a level of "poor" that's somewhere above that. Thanks for the info.


Oh sorry, I thought that you were talking about the subsidized phones. I won't interrupt again.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> ?


Some might say "amen".


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Could someone explain to me why it seems to be a big deal with some people that Tiger Woods is endorsing Rolex?


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh sorry, I thought that you were talking about the subsidized phones. I won't interrupt again.


Oh, sorry - I guess I wasn't clear and you were NOT interrupting. In fact, what you said was helpful. It's true I wasn't talking about subsidized phones but I think I had a somewhat rosy picture of what the poorest could afford.

Let me explain where I'm coming from better. We had a booth for a while at a flea market in a very rural, VERY poor county outside of Atlanta. I watched the people go through. They were poor, uneducated and in too many cases quite comfortable with their level of poor education.

One of the things that alarmed me was that so many of them did not have computers and had NO INTEREST in getting a computer. None whatsoever. That was inconceivable to me beause I nearly live on the computer, and can't imagine life without it. One of the Scandinavian countries (I think it was) declared internet access a human right. I concur wholeheartedly !! 

So, since I was finding out SO much about our world -- especially politics -- ONLY because I had access to a computer, it alarmed me that these people had absolutely no way to become even moderately informed.

That was a few years ago when smartphones were quite new.

In the meantime, smartphones are quite a bit more common. These people may not have or think they want computers, but they'll never be without their phones! And they're going to want smartphones. Whether they avail themselves of what the internet has to offer or not is another question. But at least they'll have some access.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, we've been discussing the essential differences between attitudes about people on the Left and the Right for weeks now, haven't we? In many cases we were entirely right about the cause of some of those differences. This is a fascinating article I couldn't wait to bring here --



> Kraus and Keltner looked deeper into the connection between social class and social class essentialism by testing participants' belief in a just world, asking them to evaluate such statements as "I feel that people get what they are entitled to have." The psychologist Melvin Lerner developed "just world" theory in the 1960s, arguing that we're motivated to believe that the world is a fair place. The alternative  a universe where bad things happen to good people  is too upsetting. So we engage defense mechanisms such as blaming the victim  "She shouldn't have dressed that way"  or trusting that positive and negative events will be balanced out by karma, a form of magical thinking.
> 
> Kraus and Keltner found that the higher people perceived their social class to be, the more strongly they endorsed just-world beliefs, and that this difference explained their increased social class essentialism: Apparently if you feel that you're doing well, you want to believe success comes to those who deserve it, and therefore those of lower status must not deserve it. (Incidentally, the argument that you "deserve" anything because of your genes is philosophically contentious; none of us earned our genes.)
> 
> ...


I guess I'm just low class. :lol:

There's much more in the article.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I don't ever see anything like that happening to Ailes -- there's no terminal disease terminal enough or disease-ish enough to give him a change of heart.
> 
> The Republican you had in mind was James Inhofe:
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/22/jim-inhofe-democrats_n_4489794.html?ncid=txtlnkushpmg00000037


Right on both counts. Thanks yet again.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Seems her problem-- her poor life choice -- was living as long as she did.


And that actually is a big reason we have a bigger and bigger expense for social security retirement and disability. With medical advances people are living longer and longer and in the process incurring more and more bills between medicine and other health care things. Society and government have yet to catch up with that.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

This may turn out to be a duplicate post. I'm not sure I hit Send before I accidentally closed this tab.



Knitry said:


> I didn't say I thought YOU were delusional about anything else or even all of it. Your last sentence, as I interpreted it, said that the right was no more unkind, uncaring or thinking only of themselves than I or all of us on the left, whichever (and it's not important which). Based on the contents of this thread alone, that is simply demonstrably untrue.
> 
> What I will acknowledge is that NOT EVERYONE on the right -- perhaps not including you, for example -- is unkind, uncaring or thinks only of themselves. But I see way too much of that on this thread for my taste.


This is the perfect intro for Paul Krugman's column in this morning's NYTimes.(http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/13/opinion/krugman-enemies-of-the-poor.html?ref=columnists&_r=0 )

I hope *Theyarnlady* takes the opportunity to read it, too.



> *Enemies of the Poor*
> JAN. 12, 2014
> 
> Paul Krugman
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Does this woman claim to be a Christian?


Not exactly, at least according to the evangelicals. She claims to be a Catholic, a papist, whose ideas are as different from the current Pope's as they are from yours.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh, sorry - I guess I wasn't clear and you were NOT interrupting. In fact, what you said was helpful. It's true I wasn't talking about subsidized phones but I think I had a somewhat rosy picture of what the poorest could afford.
> 
> Let me explain where I'm coming from better. We had a booth for a while at a flea market in a very rural, VERY poor county outside of Atlanta. I watched the people go through. They were poor, uneducated and in too many cases quite comfortable with their level of poor education.
> 
> ...


And in this day and age if you are not computer literate you have a super low chance of most jobs. Using the computers occassionally (if they even have the ability and transportation to get to a library in their increasingly shrinking hours) does not equal computer literate either.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Oh, sorry - I guess I wasn't clear and you were NOT interrupting. In fact, what you said was helpful. It's true I wasn't talking about subsidized phones but I think I had a somewhat rosy picture of what the poorest could afford.
> 
> Let me explain where I'm coming from better. We had a booth for a while at a flea market in a very rural, VERY poor county outside of Atlanta. I watched the people go through. They were poor, uneducated and in too many cases quite comfortable with their level of poor education.
> 
> ...


My experience of poor people in the Southeastern United States, primarily as the result of wandering around with ethnomusicologists making field recordings, has taught me that there are a bunch of poor folks who have ample intelligence and wisdom and their comfort with their poverty often has nothing to do with their level of formal education. I also learned that the poorest people are the quickest to offer you a meal even if it's only cornbread and beans, and are often more hospitable than people who are "better off" than they are. But I was in the fortunate position of meeting people who I knew were experts at something, like fiddle playing or singing the old time hymns. Sometimes, with the way the world seems to be going, I think I'd rather live in the most isolated holler than where i live now. I would still want to keep my smartphone...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Stop! You're making me giggle and I'm sitting in the doctor's office. Other waitees are looking at me!


I'm sorry, but how could I pass up such an opportunity?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not exactly, at least according to the evangelicals. She claims to be a Catholic, a papist, whose ideas are as different from the current Pope's as they are from yours.


That is a shame, most of the Roman Catholics I know are very generous and loving people. Then again, they are Massachusetts Roman Catholics, I do find that makes a difference in so many areas.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Ahhh, here's another one that seems applicable to some of the discussions in this thread:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not exactly, at least according to the evangelicals. She claims to be a Catholic, a papist, whose ideas are as different from the current Pope's as they are from yours.


Catholic....true
Follows Church Doctrine.....true
I agree with the Pope on issues. But I prefer to read the entire text instead of the snippets pulled out of context. Even if I disagree with a phrase or two, if it is Church Doctrine then I follow it. Didn't always agree with everything my parents told me to do, but I did follow their rules.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think you've hit it, Knitry. Some really do want their fellow Americans to live in unimaginable misery rather than accept government assistance. I suppose they feel somehow that it's character building--but I don't buy it, particularly when children are involved. Just from a dollar and cents perspective it's illogical--children who don't eat well do poorly in school. Undernourished women give birth to frail, sickly infants who may require a lifetime of medical intervention and treatment. And one of the lessons learned from the Great Depression was that the economy takes a nosedive when folks cut their spending to a bare minimum and try to live off stale bread and watery soup.
> 
> I don't credit even the Democrat leaders with unusually warm generous hearts because they're willing to increase the budget for food stamps and extend unemployment aid. They do it because it makes economic sense.


Well said. Here is part of the problem. If they're not decent enough to have compassion for their fellow man/woman/child, they also don't seem very good at connecting the dots for even selfish reasons. The truth is, we're ALL better off if we don't allow people to drop into desperate conditions.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could someone explain to me why it seems to be a big deal with some people that Tiger Woods is endorsing Rolex?


Have not heard about it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think you've hit it, Knitry. Some really do want their fellow Americans to live in unimaginable misery rather than accept government assistance. I suppose they feel somehow that it's character building--but I don't buy it, particularly when children are involved. Just from a dollar and cents perspective it's illogical--children who don't eat well do poorly in school. Undernourished women give birth to frail, sickly infants who may require a lifetime of medical intervention and treatment. And one of the lessons learned from the Great Depression was that the economy takes a nosedive when folks cut their spending to a bare minimum and try to live off stale bread and watery soup.
> 
> I don't credit even the Democrat leaders with unusually warm generous hearts because they're willing to increase the budget for food stamps and extend unemployment aid. They do it because it makes economic sense.


Well thought out, Susan.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Here are some more people who've made poor life choices:
> 
> Seems her problem-- her poor life choice -- was living as long as she did.


Geez. These stories never stop. I think Bernie Sanders' website was collecting stories like these at one time. It's heartbreaking, at least for those of us with hearts.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Some of them are quite compassionate, others not so much. But hey, whatever works!
> 
> In the meantime, another aspect is that the Republicans do not WANT the economy to work, not if it would give any credit whatsoever to Obama. Further, they are perfectly happy to "punish" those people and states who voted for Obama. "You want government to work (at all)? Then don't elect a Democrat. But if you do, make darned sure it's not a half black one."


 :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure my BIL knows where this woman is coming from--after almost twenty years of service at a bank he got canned after being careless enough to develope prostrate cancer. Seems those pesky operations and chemo treatments hindered his job performance. :hunf:


 I'm so sorry, Susan.

I had a knitting buddy whose husband was fired from the bank he worked in for about 30 years when it was bought up by another bank. They sold their apartment and moved to Philadelphia, where they have family, just so they and their 3 kids could live a little cheaper. Having lost touch with my friend, I don't know whether he ever got another job. It's not an easy task when you've hit middle age.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The only person I know who has a Lifeline phone only has this little tiny phone. She may have a dataplan. I never asked, because, I don't really think that it my business to ask about her "free phone". Her partner mentioned that she often uses his phone with unlimited service in order to save her minutes. I gotta tell you, you wouldn't want to try to read anything from the internet on that phone.


If the righties had their way, she'd have a princess phone with no screen!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.
> 
> Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


Would that be a baby alpaca, grown?
Do you spin it with internal organs? Does that alpaca actually knit or simply do arm knitting? Help with winding perhaps?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I have been thinking about this subject for a week or so -- how expensive it is to BE poor -- and am delighted I ran across this article by the author of _Nickled and Dimed_, which was a topic of discussion recently. This is VERY enlightening -- and heartbreaking, IMO.


I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed. I may need to stop for a 3-hour TV stint.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course there are some big-time welfare cheats, and I doubt anyone here supports that sort of thing. People who lie about their income, work under the table, collect under multiple names etc etc, are prosecuted when caught--and that's as it should be.
> 
> But you appear seem to be talking a different kind of person who collects government assistance--the man or woman who uses food stamps but nonetheless dresses nicely, owns a cell phone, and so on. If you knew how they acquired those things and all of it was legal (gifts, the remnants of a previously comfortable lifestyle, items from a thrift shop), would it still bother you?


Yesterday, weren't we having heartfelt sympathy for mom and pop corner store type businesses? 
I will have to check this out to see if I can find a back up article, but, I think I read recently that those "outlets" are big time money makers in the SNAP fraud and usage chain.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-12-16/news/fl-food-stamp-fraud-20131216_1_fraud-scheme-ebt-card-grocery-store

http://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2013/02/22/investigation-nearly-20000-mom-and-pop-stores-involved-in-trafficking-food-stamps/

http://www.acfe.com/fraud-examiner.aspx?id=4294971518


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could someone explain to me why it seems to be a big deal with some people that Tiger Woods is endorsing Rolex?


A mixed-race man in an enviable position and talent well beyond the norm? Can't help you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm so sorry, Susan.
> 
> I had a knitting buddy whose husband was fired from the bank he worked in for about 30 years when it was bought up by another bank. They sold their apartment and moved to Philadelphia, where they have family, just so they and their 3 kids could live a little cheaper. Having lost touch with my friend, I don't know whether he ever got another job. It's not an easy task when you've hit middle age.


Thanks, Purl--happily BIL made a full recovery, but his career was over. This was a few years back when the economy tanked--there was no way any company would hire a man who was a cancer survivor, and in his late 50s to boot. He took early retirement and, as my sister earns a good income, things worked out financially--but it's been a major blow to his pride. She works 60+ hours a week, he stays home and manages the house and their two teen-age boys--definitely not an arrangement that uber-conservative man ever expected.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that be a baby alpaca, grown?
> Do you spin it with internal organs? Does that alpaca actually knit or simply do arm knitting? Help with winding perhaps?


It must--else a certain party's Pinocchio nose would get caught in the wheel.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh, sorry - I guess I wasn't clear and you were NOT interrupting. In fact, what you said was helpful. It's true I wasn't talking about subsidized phones but I think I had a somewhat rosy picture of what the poorest could afford.
> 
> Let me explain where I'm coming from better. We had a booth for a while at a flea market in a very rural, VERY poor county outside of Atlanta. I watched the people go through. They were poor, uneducated and in too many cases quite comfortable with their level of poor education.
> 
> ...


Maybe we need a whole new jargon buster. 
I was talking about people who live in poverty, really. 
Poor is so subjective. I refer to myself as poor all the time. which honestly is insulting to those who truly are poor.

The folks you are talking about seem to be poor in spirit. 
I know that a system such as MetroPCS offers plans for as low as $30. a month. I have no idea how good it is. I know that for $50 the plan is unlimited minutes, texts, and internet. It seems reasonable to me, but, may not be doable for someone who has to buy shoes for babies.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is a shame, most of the Roman Catholics I know are very generous and loving people. Then again, they are Massachusetts Roman Catholics, I do find that makes a difference in so many areas.


There's certainly a big difference between Massachusetts and Virginia (though VA has been moving left), but I'd be surprised if she'd be considered a typical Roman Catholic even in VA. I think you need a conscience, for one thing.

Wouldn't you like to be a fly on the wall while she was in the confessional? Sorry, cancel that. Perfect people don't have anything to confess.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I have been thinking about this subject for a week or so -- how expensive it is to BE poor -- and am delighted I ran across this article by the author of _Nickled and Dimed_, which was a topic of discussion recently. This is VERY enlightening -- and heartbreaking, IMO.


Thanks for posting this, Knitry. As a huge Ehrenreich fan I didn't have to heart to read any of her articles and essays after she was diagnosed with breast cancer. Sounds like the treatments were successful!

:thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Catholic....true
> Follows Church Doctrine.....true
> I agree with the Pope on issues. But I prefer to read the entire text instead of the snippets pulled out of context. Even if I disagree with a phrase or two, if it is Church Doctrine then I follow it. Didn't always agree with everything my parents told me to do, but I did follow their rules.


...She stuck in her thumb/ and pulled out a plum/ and said "What a good girl am I."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> And in this day and age if you are not computer literate you have a super low chance of most jobs. Using the computers occassionally (if they even have the ability and transportation to get to a library in their increasingly shrinking hours) does not equal computer literate either.


So true, Lkholcomb. I don't even know how a high school or college student would get through school without a computer and a word processing program. The last paper I ever wrote on a typewriter was my undergraduate thesis. Fifty pages. Sheer agony. I truly don't know how I managed all those years.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that be a baby alpaca, grown?
> Do you spin it with internal organs? Does that alpaca actually knit or simply do arm knitting? Help with winding perhaps?


LOLOLOLOL

Geez Louise.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If the righties had their way, she'd have a princess phone with no screen!


HAHAHAA, we all have a little judgmental streak in us. 
I have to admit it irked me that she collects disability, seems to know every perk available, does this flea market thing and supposedly takes in hundreds every week... then I slap my my forehead and think of her, barely lucid since she took one too many pain killers, and come out of it. 
She is one of those people who made poor life choices. She had the nerve to be on the road at the same time that drunk driver needed her lane as well as his own. How stupid could she be?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that be a baby alpaca, grown?
> Do you spin it with internal organs? Does that alpaca actually knit or simply do arm knitting? Help with winding perhaps?


That's the funniest thing I've seen all day. I can't stop rereading it and laughing loudly again and again.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> LOLOLOLOL
> 
> Geez Louise.


That was what she said, right? 
She went knitting with her friends and her alpaca?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Purl--happily BIL made a full recovery, but his career was over. This was a few years back when the economy tanked--there was no way any company would hire a man who was a cancer survivor, and in his late 50s to boot. He took early retirement and, as my sister earns a good income, things worked out financially--but it's been a major blow to his pride. She works 60+ hours a week, he stays home and manages the house and their two teen-age boys--definitely not an arrangement that uber-conservative man ever expected.


I think men still identify with their work, so it's especially hard when they're sick, the work is gone, and they've had to take household duty. Is he still uber-conservative?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAHAA, we all have a little judgmental streak in us.
> I have to admit it irked me that she collects disability, seems to know every perk available, does this flea market thing and supposedly takes in hundreds every week... then I slap my my forehead and think of her, barely lucid since she took one too many pain killers, and come out of it.
> She is one of those people who made poor life choices. She had the nerve to be on the road at the same time that drunk driver needed her lane as well as his own. How stupid could she be?


If Jamie Dimon and the thieves at Goldman Sachs deserve every cent they make, then so does she, and she can put it to better use than they do.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That was what she said, right?
> She went knitting with her friends and her alpaca?


Yup, her hand-spun alpaca. You got it right.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

This gave me a bit of a chuckle, it also explains why I don't trust polls.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is the perfect intro for Paul Krugman's column in this morning's NYTimes


Most excellent, thanks! I'd heard someone mention it, but hadn't yet seen it. I think you know what a fan of Krugman I am. (Ya think I'm too old to be a Groupie?? Too tired for sure.)

Loved this:



> The point is that a party committed to small government and low taxes on the rich is, more or less necessarily, a party committed to hurting, not helping, the poor.


Reminds me of Bill Maher's insightful commentary on the subject:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If Jamie Dimon and the thieves at Goldman Sachs deserve every cent they make, then so does she, and she can put it to better use than they do.


I have a really hard time when people don't pay their taxes. 
You are absolutely correct, though, there is not a single person I know who could outdo those soulless *******.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Well, we've been discussing the essential differences between attitudes about people on the Left and the Right for weeks now, haven't we? In many cases we were entirely right about the cause of some of those differences. This is a fascinating article I couldn't wait to bring here --
> 
> I guess I'm just low class. :lol:
> 
> There's much more in the article.


Thank you for posting that, I am a little tender (think prime rib) just now, I am definitely going to save it, though. 
LOL, my mail to myself is getting very full.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks so much for posting this Janet. There is still so much that needs to be done. I'm at a loss for words. (That ought to cause people to faint. )



Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, you got it, this young man's hometown is Sanford, FL. That same sweet town that let Treyvon Martin's killer off the hook with no charges brought.
> His new town is NYC, same sh** just colder.
> 
> America is still a deeply racist country
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe we need a whole new jargon buster.
> I was talking about people who live in poverty, really.
> Poor is so subjective. I refer to myself as poor all the time. which honestly is insulting to those who truly are poor.
> 
> ...


Poor in spirit for sure, but pure in reality as well. It's hard to get a handle on it and as I think back to the various people who came by fairly regularly, they were all over the board. A good many of them had jobs -- but none of them paid well, and all were pretty uncertain. Many had not completed high school. On and on. Hard to quantify.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd say the critical skills might be creativity, creative thinking, self-reliance, a solid work ethic, and a genuine interest in the business at hand. I'm sure you can think of many more.



MaidInBedlam said:


> It does seem that the idea of higher education is aimed at getting a job after all that "education" Nurturing an imagination is just as important, IMO. This touches on what some of the righties say about how we can chose to be successful. I don't think we can make certain kinds of choices without being able to image what we might want. Somehow, we have to be able to dream those big dreams before we try to make them real.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think men still identify with their work, so it's especially hard when they're sick, the work is gone, and they've had to take household duty. Is he still uber-conservative?


We have done such negative things in our puritanical ways to both men and women.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No man is an island. John Donne



MaidInBedlam said:


> Janet, I was looking at your avatar and remembering that I wanted to say that I like it and say that mostly none of is self-sufficient. In the largest sense we are all interdependent. Some of the righties seem to believe that people are either dependent or independent which may be true to some extent but ultimately we all have something to contribute and we all need each other. IMO.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm beginning to feel overwhelmed. I may need to stop for a 3-hour TV stint.


I looked at the clock and saw it was 7:59 and thought "oh no" we are going to get hit NOW!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> No man is an island. John Donne


This one? It is the perfect definition of socialism.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think men still identify with their work, so it's especially hard when they're sick, the work is gone, and they've had to take household duty. Is he still uber-conservative?


Oh yes--having his career end didn't change that, in fact made it worse as he tried to extend his control to every corner of the house. Picture a mustachio'd Arnold Schwarzenegger in a housedress ranting about the carpets. Things didn't improve until he took a weekend job driving a limo. He doesn't earn much, of course, but wheeling folks around in a long car seems to satisfy whatever need he has to boss and dominate.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> No man is an island. John Donne


Nor would he want to be, that is part of what I don't understand about not wanting to help and depend on each other.

Perhaps I should have said... "Neither, I...".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No one is so blind except for those who will not see.



VocalLisa said:


> Absolutely, racism now is mostly done in "code" and in willful denials.
> 
> You know, the kind of person who thinks that Oprah can't tell the difference between a rude clerk and a racist clerk, because, those black people are hypersensitive and "see racism" whether it's there or not. Or the kind of person who thinks if Oprah just would've kept her mouth shut, all would be well. It's was Oprah's complaining that's the problem, not the racism of the clerk.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh yes--having his career end didn't change that, in fact made it worse as he tried to extend his control to every corner of the house. Picture a mustachio'd Arnold Schwarzenegger in a housedress ranting about the carpets. Things didn't improve until he took a weekend job driving a limo. He doesn't earn much, of course, but wheeling folks around in a long car seems to satisfy whatever need he has to boss and dominate.


Yet another fine-tuned mental image from you, Susan. The picture of Schwarzenegger in a housedress, with or without mustachio, will ruin my sleep. I'll have to file it with the picture of J. Edgar Hoover in a ball gown.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> We have done such negative things in our puritanical ways to both men and women.


I think in this case it's been men who've done it to themselves and to women.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've noticed something I think is interesting. It seems that the inclination is to judge others harshly without examining our conscience to determine where our pride and prejudice lies. 

Anyone have any thoughts?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judging others before examining personal prejudice.



Janet Cooke said:


> Would that "not all the poor are like that" be like not all middle class Americans are judgmental, presumptuous, greedy, bigots?
> Did it ever occur to you that the woman borrowed someone's car to go shopping because she doesn't have one? Did it ever occur to you that the woman's parents gave her and her child those outfits?
> Did it ever occur to you that this woman is married to a man who lost his job and she now has to use SNAP? Or that the woman you saw using cash had maybe spent all of her SNAP benefit for the month so she was using cash?
> Did it occur to you that you had better ways to spend your time than to sit in a parking lot watching for "suspects" and then trail them in the store 'til they got to the cash register to spy on them?
> Didn't think so. Sad, sad, sad.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> Listen. I really get sick and tired of people, even the more needy among us, harping on the people who "scam" the welfare system as if anyone doing so are living like kings off of it.
> 
> Yes, sometimes people fraud the system and we should do what we can to weed them out.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Reminds me of Bill Maher's insightful commentary on the subject:


I didn't know you were a Krugman groupie. I'm not, but he very often has well-reasoned pieces.

Someone here is a Robert Reich lover. I just received his book _Supercapitalism_ from my favorite bookstore. (I live in - brag - the neighborhood with the highest average IQ in the country outside of university towns. People in my building will often leave piles of books in the mail room when they want to get rid of them. I love shopping through the piles because there's so little junk.)

Oh, it's alcameron who likes Reich. Well, I have dibs on the book, though I can't read it as long as I'm stuck here on KP.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> And that actually is a big reason we have a bigger and bigger expense for social security retirement and disability. With medical advances people are living longer and longer and in the process incurring more and more bills between medicine and other health care things. Society and government have yet to catch up with that.


We, as a society, need to adjust to that. We must either suck it up and pay the bills or do some real changes in the system in collections upfront. 
What was the figure from the other day? 
A person who earns One Million Dollars a year is paying .7% in FICA. I am not sure if there is a cap on Medicare payroll withdrawals. Whats her name lectured me on it, but, since she is a lying sack of doggie dinner I didn't bother to read it. Big surprise, topping out on Medicare payments was never a major concern when I was a working woman.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Yet another fine-tuned mental image from you, Susan. The picture of Schwarzenegger in a housedress, with or without mustachio, will ruin my sleep. I'll have to file it with the picture of J. Edgar Hoover in a ball gown.


Heehee--it's only too accurate, I'm afraid.  
In all honesty, though, I do like the guy--he's about fifteen years my sister's senior and from an older and much more traditional generation. He has a good heart but simply can't change his views about women, politics, religion etc.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'd say the critical skills might be creativity, creative thinking, self-reliance, a solid work ethic, and a genuine interest in the business at hand. I'm sure you can think of many more.


I agree, but these are the skills we learn mainly from our parents, and unfortunately there are too many whose parents don't have those skill themselves.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> This one? It is the perfect definition of socialism.


It's also the perfect image for "You didn't make that," which the right still can't forgive Obama for saying. He was correct, but the right can't see it.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Would that be a baby alpaca, grown?
> Do you spin it with internal organs? Does that alpaca actually knit or simply do arm knitting? Help with winding perhaps?


cute

no I only do that with a cria's fleece


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've noticed something I think is interesting. It seems that the inclination is to judge others harshly without examining our conscience to determine where our pride and prejudice lies.
> 
> Anyone have any thoughts?


HAHHAAA, another surprise. I have LOTS of thoughts. I will only do the abridged version tonight. I think I am getting low on ink. 
I think that it must be linked to some instinctive point, it is instantaneous THEN our thought process kicks in. 
I also think that it some way it must be connected to that bit of us that makes us believe the first teller of a tale.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nor would he want to be, that is part of what I don't understand about not wanting to help and depend on each other.
> 
> Perhaps I should have said... "Neither, I...".


You did it to me again. LOLOLOL

They don't mind the depending; it's the helping they hate. Nobody can run a business without the people who do the sweat work, the dirty work, but if you can get away without paying them, why not?

Speaking of which, have you been reading about the Indian "diplomat"?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You did it to me again. LOLOLOL
> 
> They don't mind the depending; it's the helping they hate. Nobody can run a business without the people who do the sweat work, the dirty work, but if you can get away without paying them, why not?
> 
> Speaking of which, have you been reading about the Indian "diplomat"?


That has whizzed right past my radar, and now that you mention it there is a case here in Mass with a prosecutor who thought he was so wonderful to let the criminals stay our of jail and pay restititution to the victim. Had me grumbling, I have to say. 
Why don't you look up yours and I will look up mine?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Didn't find the case I wanted, here we have the job creators, though.

http://www.mass.gov/ago/news-and-updates/press-releases/2011/couple-cited-for-not-properly-paying-employees.html

And another job creator:

http://www.bizjournals.com/boston/blog/mass_roundup/2011/03/abington-restaurant-fined-150k.html

and another:

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/2010/12/web_of_mass_employer_abuses_of.html

This is exactly what we need to increase the benefit of working hard and well.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> HAHHAAA, another surprise. I have LOTS of thoughts. I will only do the abridged version tonight. I think I am getting low on ink.
> I think that it must be linked to some instinctive point, it is instantaneous THEN our thought process kicks in.
> I also think that it some way it must be connected to that bit of us that makes us believe the first teller of a tale.


This _is_ an interesting subject. I wish I were awake enough for my thought process to kick in. I have to get off this soon. Maybe be back later.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That has whizzed right past my radar, and now that you mention it there is a case here in Mass with a prosecutor who thought he was so wonderful to let the criminals stay our of jail and pay restititution to the victim. Had me grumbling, I have to say.
> Why don't you look up yours and I will look up mine?


Don't you mean that the other way around? (Though it sounds kind of dirty the other way around.) I'm as up as I want to be on the Indian woman, which turned out to involve our government and India's, but I'm just too tired to write it up here. Maybe there's a quick link somewhere.

Here: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/01/09/261106904/indian-diplomat-at-center-of-row-with-u-s-leaves-the-country

It starts with today's news but then gives the whole story.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Didn't find the case I wanted, here we have the job creators, though.
> 
> http://www.mass.gov/ago/news-and-updates/press-releases/2011/couple-cited-for-not-properly-paying-employees.html
> 
> ...


It's all the same story with different casts of characters, your three and my one. I don't know why the right is fighting a higher minimum wage when all these businesses aren't paying their employees anyway.

Sure, people get paid for working hard, except when they don't. I wonder whether Joeysomma or LL knows that.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Yet another fine-tuned mental image from you, Susan. The picture of Schwarzenegger in a housedress, with or without mustachio, will ruin my sleep. I'll have to file it with the picture of J. Edgar Hoover in a ball gown.


Oh, no!! Now MY sleep is ruined.

I saw a little bit of the Golden Globe Awards last night, including Leonardo Di Caprio presenting something or other. And to be honest, I couldn't erase J. Edgar from my mind as I watched him. That role, done perhaps too well, ruined him for me. I hope it doesn't persist.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, no!! Now MY sleep is ruined.
> 
> I saw a little bit of the Golden Globe Awards last night, including Leonardo Di Caprio presenting something or other. And to be honest, I couldn't erase J. Edgar from my mind as I watched him. That role, done perhaps too well, ruined him for me. I hope it doesn't persist.


I haven't seen that movie yet, but I'm sure Di Caprio will soon be in another one. He's such a chameleon, he'll soon wipe out the Hoover image.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh, no!! Now MY sleep is ruined.
> 
> I saw a little bit of the Golden Globe Awards last night, including Leonardo Di Caprio presenting something or other. And to be honest, I couldn't erase J. Edgar from my mind as I watched him. That role, done perhaps too well, ruined him for me. I hope it doesn't persist.


HAHAHAHAAAA, I still haven't recovered from The Great Gatsby.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/rich-people-really-do-think-they-are-superior/2160470

This article is excellent, Knitry. 
We will really have to try to have a group discussion about it. 
It is logical that people would go there. 
Maybe split it into sections and talk about the different aspects that are presented to us. 
Maybe we could also mix in a bit of "I am entitled to good things because I am a true believer".


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Catholic....true
> Follows Church Doctrine.....true
> I agree with the Pope on issues. But I prefer to read the entire text instead of the snippets pulled out of context. Even if I disagree with a phrase or two, if it is Church Doctrine then I follow it. Didn't always agree with everything my parents told me to do, but I did follow their rules.


Interesting take on the infallibility of the Pope.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/rich-people-really-do-think-they-are-superior/2160470
> 
> This article is excellent, Knitry.
> We will really have to try to have a group discussion about it.
> ...


Some really good ideas, Janet. (No surprise there.)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Some really good ideas, Janet. (No surprise there.)


Cute, it really should be interesting, as will a good night's sleep. 5:30 comes mighty early.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't seen that movie yet, but I'm sure Di Caprio will soon be in another one. He's such a chameleon, he'll soon wipe out the Hoover image.


Actually, he's in The Wolf of Wall Street. I haven't seen it. Haven't been to a movie theater for many, many years. We've got one not far from where we moved 2-1/2 years ago, and they have matinees and senior discounts, I just haven't got myself that organized and out of my rut to get there. This conversation helps me remember to start doing something about that.

Oh! Saving Mr. Banks and American Hustle are both showing. Hmmm. Maybe I ought to get right on over there!! I'll pass on Anchorman 2 -- wouldn't even watch that at home for free, probably. I dislike Will Ferrell intensely.

Janet said:


> HAHAHAHAAAA, I still haven't recovered from The Great Gatsby.


I didn't see it. I had wanted to but then read a really terrible review and decided it wasn't for me after all. The review compared it unfavorably with the Robert Redford/Mia Farrow version quite a few years ago which I had seen and liked quite a bit (I mean, c'mon -- REDFORD!!) I still remember how stunned I was that they had so faithfully reproduced the exact scne Fitzgerald described toward the beginning of the book. I mean it matched what I had in my head from reading it EXACTLY. I hadn't thought that extraordinary fidelity was even possible, nor had I thought MY image would match anyone else's. Remarkable.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'd say the critical skills might be creativity, creative thinking, self-reliance, a solid work ethic, and a genuine interest in the business at hand. I'm sure you can think of many more.


I think I would repeat self-reliance a few times, and a sense of self that isn't selfish but supports daring, creativity, critical thinking and a solid work ethic. Idealism rates especially high with me. It is not necessary to sell out to achieve one's idea of success.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh yes--having his career end didn't change that, in fact made it worse as he tried to extend his control to every corner of the house. Picture a mustachio'd Arnold Schwarzenegger in a housedress ranting about the carpets. Things didn't improve until he took a weekend job driving a limo. He doesn't earn much, of course, but wheeling folks around in a long car seems to satisfy whatever need he has to boss and dominate.


That is an incredible image. I'm not sure whether to laugh or hide out. Thank you so much.:-D :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I agree, but these are the skills we learn mainly from our parents, and unfortunately there are too many whose parents don't have those skill themselves.


I think about how who our parents are is completely random, supremely random, and muse on my incredible good luck to have the ones I have.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> http://www.tampabay.com/news/perspective/rich-people-really-do-think-they-are-superior/2160470
> 
> This article is excellent, Knitry.
> We will really have to try to have a group discussion about it.
> ...


That article is quite interesting.

I wonder how much of an impact life's hardships make on that thought process. Like during the depression when millionaires lost their money and were brought down with everybody, I'm sure it led many to suicide. They felt they didn't deserve it anymore, therefore we're bad people (instead of looking as it as a bad situation) and it furthered their depression until it was terminal.

I wonder also if a person had money, then lost it suddenly through no fault of their own and was living in poverty for a while, then they were again raised up, if that thought process would be different? Would be interesting to find out.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

I have heard "solid work ethic" quite a bit in these discussions. I have known many people who are from both the young and the old generation who had good and bad work ethics. But, as a younger person, has that term always been thrown around as a form of blackmail? 

Let me explain. I have seem people, usually senior and from older generations, use the term as a way to control and get way more out of their co-workers by making disparaging remarks about the young generations "poor work ethic". Usually the senior ones would be lazy themselves and not want to do the work and needed someone else to, but because the younger have less seniority they are not inclined to really fight it. I have seen it used to get people to work longer, without putting in for overtime, lest they've accused of having a poor work ethic.

I do have a very strong work ethic and have always been irritated at those comments. I do understand that every generation talks of how much better their generation was or is, but I have noticed the use of this particular phrase to control others being expanded. Has anybody else?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> That article is quite interesting.
> 
> I wonder how much of an impact life's hardships make on that thought process. Like during the depression when millionaires lost their money and were brought down with everybody, I'm sure it led many to suicide. They felt they didn't deserve it anymore, therefore we're bad people (instead of looking as it as a bad situation) and it furthered their depression until it was terminal.
> 
> I wonder also if a person had money, then lost it suddenly through no fault of their own and was living in poverty for a while, then they were again raised up, if that thought process would be different? Would be interesting to find out.


Read Mark Twain's The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson for an interesting view on the sudden loss of privilege with a view of racism from a time we never experienced. It's a book I can't read again as the tragedy is all too tragic. Makes me thing of Bob Dylan's song "The Ballad of Hollis Brown", another thing I can't take anymore.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think about how who our parents are is completely random, supremely random, and muse on my incredible good luck to have the ones I have.


It's not random at all. They are the only pair of people who could have conceived you. Other couples have other children who aren't you. If your parents hadn't raised you as they did, you probably wouldn't be asking yourself these questions.

Of course, the probability that those two people would get together and give rise to you is infinitesimal. I guess that's close to random. But I believe in luck more than in probability, so I think you are incredibly lucky.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not random at all. They are the only pair of people who could have conceived you. Other couples have other children who aren't you. If your parents hadn't raised you as they did, you probably wouldn't be asking yourself these questions.
> 
> Of course, the probability that those two people would get together and give rise to you is infinitesimal. I guess that's close to random. But I believe in luck more than in probability, so I think you are incredibly lucky.


I'll go with incredibly lucky. I was. I am.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I have heard "solid work ethic" quite a bit in these discussions. I have known many people who are from both the young and the old generation who had good and bad work ethics. But, as a younger person, has that term always been thrown around as a form of blackmail?
> 
> Let me explain. I have seem people, usually senior and from older generations, use the term as a way to control and get way more out of their co-workers by making disparaging remarks about the young generations "poor work ethic". Usually the senior ones would be lazy themselves and not want to do the work and needed someone else to, but because the younger have less seniority they are not inclined to really fight it. I have seen it used to get people to work longer, without putting in for overtime, lest they've accused of having a poor work ethic.
> 
> I do have a very strong work ethic and have always been irritated at those comments. I do understand that every generation talks of how much better their generation was or is, but I have noticed the use of this particular phrase to control others being expanded. Has anybody else?


I think it has--it would seem superficially to mean working well at one's job, but current usage seems to involve some sort of raise-yourself-by-your-own-bootstraps ethic, overcoming all obstacles, succeeding in the face of blatant discrimination, and so on.

In my opinion the meaning of the word has been twisted and abused--it goes without saying that anyone in America who holds a job is working well and efficiently. Bosses can hire and fire at will, and anyone whose job performance is unsatisfactory will be out the door--no explanation necessary.

The abuse comes in when people dismiss very legitimate complaints about the poor education many children receive, discrimination in the workplace, and unsafe working conditions on the grounds that people just need to work a little harder to overcome these obstacles and that a good work ethic can overcome all. The work ethic thing can be used as a tool for throwing all the responsibility back into the economically disadvantaged's lap and, too often, it is.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It is crucial to learn them somewhere and the reason for their importance.



Poor Purl said:


> I agree, but these are the skills we learn mainly from our parents, and unfortunately there are too many whose parents don't have those skill themselves.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> That article is quite interesting.
> 
> I wonder how much of an impact life's hardships make on that thought process. Like during the depression when millionaires lost their money and were brought down with everybody, I'm sure it led many to suicide. They felt they didn't deserve it anymore, therefore we're bad people (instead of looking as it as a bad situation) and it furthered their depression until it was terminal.
> 
> I wonder also if a person had money, then lost it suddenly through no fault of their own and was living in poverty for a while, then they were again raised up, if that thought process would be different? Would be interesting to find out.


There were, LKholcomb, some suicides, according to this article not as many as we were led to believe in the generations right after the Depression. 
The lesser reports may have been because people couldn't get a pay out form life insurance if it was suicide. 
Anyway, this is what I found.

http://www.worststockmarketcrashes.com/crash-of-1929/october-1929-stock-market-crash-suicides/


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I didn't see it. I had wanted to but then read a really terrible review and decided it wasn't for me after all. The review compared it unfavorably with the Robert Redford/Mia Farrow version quite a few years ago which I had seen and liked quite a bit (I mean, c'mon -- REDFORD!!) I still remember how stunned I was that they had so faithfully reproduced the exact scne Fitzgerald described toward the beginning of the book. I mean it matched what I had in my head from reading it EXACTLY. I hadn't thought that extraordinary fidelity was even possible, nor had I thought MY image would match anyone else's. Remarkable.


The '70s version was definitely superior so far as story portrayal, I watched that again AFTER the trip to see this latest production. I liked the DiCaprio depiction of a socially maladapted, anxiety ridden and awkward man, however. It added something to my view of the interactions.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I have heard "solid work ethic" quite a bit in these discussions. I have known many people who are from both the young and the old generation who had good and bad work ethics. But, as a younger person, has that term always been thrown around as a form of blackmail?
> 
> Let me explain. I have seem people, usually senior and from older generations, use the term as a way to control and get way more out of their co-workers by making disparaging remarks about the young generations "poor work ethic". Usually the senior ones would be lazy themselves and not want to do the work and needed someone else to, but because the younger have less seniority they are not inclined to really fight it. I have seen it used to get people to work longer, without putting in for overtime, lest they've accused of having a poor work ethic.
> 
> I do have a very strong work ethic and have always been irritated at those comments. I do understand that every generation talks of how much better their generation was or is, but I have noticed the use of this particular phrase to control others being expanded. Has anybody else?


I agree, LKholcomb, I more than agree. It pisses me right off. 
The same thing with derogatory comments about the manners of young folks, that one annoys the daylights out of me as well. 
I think what we see is an adolescent inability to "see" what needs to be done. Heck, I live with two men right now who are still oblivious to what needs to be done around the house. 
I see what I harp on all the time, the people in charge not training staff and consumers who are willing to accept poor service so that they can roll their eyes and talk about a lousy work ethic, maybe. 
I am thinking specifically of the stocking of shelves at one of the supermarkets I go to. On a regular basis, there will be a particular type of a product that one wants that is just not there. The shelves are stocked, the product has been properly rotated, but let's say the coconut flavor is out. This is consistent, management has not taught the employees that it *does* matter to customers that all of the varieties are on display. 
Do we expect a 16 yo to understand that? I doubt that I had developed that view at that age. 
People perform up to the expectations of those around them. If we expect a lot, we get a lot. I think the percentage of people who are not interested in performing with the best they have to give is miniscule.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think I would repeat self-reliance a few times, and a sense of self that isn't selfish but supports daring, creativity, critical thinking and a solid work ethic. Idealism rates especially high with me. It is not necessary to sell out to achieve one's idea of success.


I think, Empress, that most of us who manage to stave off the attacks on our idealism would feel less successful if we "sold out", don't you? 
It feels like you are describing self confidence in the main body of your statement, that sense of self.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think, Empress, that most of us who manage to stave off the attacks on our idealism would feel less successful if we "sold out", don't you?
> It feels like you are describing self confidence in the main body of your statement, that sense of self.


I think most of us would feel less successful if we "sold out", and that sometimes it's up for grabs about selling out. Sometimes we make compromises with our idealism to achieve some dream, if it's the only way to get where we want to be, may well be very temporary, and doesn't mean playing fast and loose with our ideals, but making an occasional, slight modification.

Yes, I think I'm talking about a combination of self-confidence and strength of character. I believe these qualities have a lot of influence on helping us stick with our ideals and dreams. To "follow the path with heart" takes some very hard work sometimes, as well as a very thick skin.

The concept of having a "solid work ethic" is being discussed here. I'm kind of talking about that when I say it takes some very hard work to achieve a particular end. I see this willingness to work hard as a positive aspect of having a "solid work ethic", or maybe an entirely different attitude about working hard. There is a lot of negative weight behind that phrase "solid work ethic".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder how many who were 'ruined' found more important things to live for.....or am I too hopeful? Probably.



Janet Cooke said:


> There were, LKholcomb, some suicides, according to this article not as many as we were led to believe in the generations right after the Depression.
> The lesser reports may have been because people couldn't get a pay out form life insurance if it was suicide.
> Anyway, this is what I found.
> 
> http://www.worststockmarketcrashes.com/crash-of-1929/october-1929-stock-market-crash-suicides/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think, Empress, that most of us who manage to stave off the attacks on our idealism would feel less successful if we "sold out", don't you?
> It feels like you are describing self confidence in the main body of your statement, that sense of self.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: An important point, IMHO


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> I have heard "solid work ethic" quite a bit in these discussions. I have known many people who are from both the young and the old generation who had good and bad work ethics. But, as a younger person, has that term always been thrown around as a form of blackmail?
> 
> Let me explain. I have seem people, usually senior and from older generations, use the term as a way to control and get way more out of their co-workers by making disparaging remarks about the young generations "poor work ethic". Usually the senior ones would be lazy themselves and not want to do the work and needed someone else to, but because the younger have less seniority they are not inclined to really fight it. I have seen it used to get people to work longer, without putting in for overtime, lest they've accused of having a poor work ethic.
> 
> I do have a very strong work ethic and have always been irritated at those comments. I do understand that every generation talks of how much better their generation was or is, but I have noticed the use of this particular phrase to control others being expanded. Has anybody else?


I do think the term "solid work ethic" is used to "blackmail" younger employees who aren't in a position, for many reasons, to stand up to that form of blackmail. I think this term is also used in a negative and nostalgic way by older employees. They talk about "the good old days" that they may not even have been alive for, if those good old days ever really existed. This forms another part of the attack on younger workers. Then there's the fact that we're social animals so we seek to rank ourselves and those around us by whatever beliefs our little corner of human society uses to rank its members. Age is often one of the standards used in this kind of social ranking. Seniority in the workplace means a lot, too.

In my last job before retirement, I saw the opposite of the young and old employees use of having a "solid work ethic". I worked for a large HMO in a department that underwent radical change and expansion. Older employees in very responsible positions were under a lot of pressure to accomplish certain goals. Most of them, myself included, couldn't keep up with the younger employees who were hired as part of this big expansion. More and more in the early months of this expansion younger employees who could do the same highly responsible jobs faster than older workers were hired. Man, they really left some of us in the dust even though we worked very hard to meet the goals set for us. A few of us retired because we could and the others found jobs in other departments that were as responsible as the jobs they had, but were a bit more relaxed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The abuse comes in when people dismiss very legitimate complaints about the poor education many children receive, discrimination in the workplace, and unsafe working conditions on the grounds that people just need to work a little harder to overcome these obstacles and that a good work ethic can overcome all. The work ethic thing can be used as a tool for throwing all the responsibility back into the economically disadvantaged's lap and, too often, it is.


Very true, unfortunately. If you haven't read the Krugman column I posted yesterday, it would be a good adjunct to your message here.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The '70s version was definitely superior so far as story portrayal, I watched that again AFTER the trip to see this latest production. I liked the DiCaprio depiction of a socially maladapted, anxiety ridden and awkward man, however. It added something to my view of the interactions.


I've always had a picture of Jay Gatsby as looking like Robert Ryan but don't ever recall seeing that casting in a movie. This discussion made me look it up: in 1958, before most of you were only a twinkle in daddy's eye, it was broadcast on Playhouse 90, and this is the version that has stayed with me forever. I never even wanted to see another.

Looking at the cast, I see it was a little weird: Jeanne Crain played Daisy, and Ryan was 47 when he played Gatsby, who was a much younger man. Funny what memories stay on and fight to keep their place.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I have heard "solid work ethic" quite a bit in these discussions. I have known many people who are from both the young and the old generation who had good and bad work ethics. But, as a younger person, has that term always been thrown around as a form of blackmail?
> 
> Let me explain. I have seem people, usually senior and from older generations, use the term as a way to control and get way more out of their co-workers by making disparaging remarks about the young generations "poor work ethic". Usually the senior ones would be lazy themselves and not want to do the work and needed someone else to, but because the younger have less seniority they are not inclined to really fight it. I have seen it used to get people to work longer, without putting in for overtime, lest they've accused of having a poor work ethic.
> 
> I do have a very strong work ethic and have always been irritated at those comments. I do understand that every generation talks of how much better their generation was or is, but I have noticed the use of this particular phrase to control others being expanded. Has anybody else?


Well, as one of those very "older generation" members, I've not seen that go on, which is not to say I don't believe you or I think you're wrong.

The only thing I regret about SOME among the younger generations (true of some Millennials and some GenXers) is the unbridled bitter _resentment_ and sense of entitlement because we boomers didn't hand them a perfect world.

Clearly, we were plenty critical of the world we found ourselves inheriting and plenty critical of the generation(s) that came before us who allowed things to develop that way -- but I do NOT remember any of that resentment. We saw what we saw and went to work to change it.

I love the younger generations with their unabashed, unapologetic liberal bent -- anti-bigotry, anti-homophobia, anti-corporatism/fascism, and so much more. I LOVE Occupy Wall Street and what they accomplished along with all the various spin-offs. I LOVE Anonymous and Wikileaks and Edward Snowden.

So I guess I would say that as a generalization, I think their work ethic is probably pretty good, but do not have any first-hand experience with any individuals.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I wonder how many who were 'ruined' found more important things to live for.....or am I too hopeful? Probably.


There were a few charming Hollywood movies on the subject, but they were, after all, just movies.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think what we see is an adolescent inability to "see" what needs to be done. Heck, I live with two men right now who are still oblivious to what needs to be done around the house.


Ah, that ole male privilege strikes again.

A lot of years ago Gloria Steinem pointed out that to have men 'help with the housework' is just a higher form of sexism because that means all the responsibility still falls to us. WE are usually the ones responsible for figuring out what needs to be done and organizing the household and its people to get it done unless we do it ourselves. We're usually the ones who make out the menus and do the grocery shopping (or make the lists). We're the ones who handle or arrange for the child care. You name it relative to domestic issues or what I like to call "life maintenance tasks" and the responsibility is first and foremost women's.

Yard work and home maintenance may be the exception in some cases, but even there a lot gets overlooked that I have to point out and sometimes arrange for (or do!).

I am personally convinced that women will NEVER be fully equal -- not even close -- until that and a few other key indicators change. I look forward to the day, for example, when the verbs "to mother" and "to father" do not have such radically different denotations. And when no little boy (or man for that matter) can feel insulted by being compared to the female of the species. And when pornography isn't seen as some kind of perverted First Amendment Right.

But other than that I have no strong feelings on the subject.

:mrgreen:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Here's a littel good news (depending on which side you're on, I suppose -- and isn't it too bad being on the "American side" isn't enough to enable one to appreciate this news?):



> *United States Notches Record $53 Billion Budget Surplus In December *
> By Alan Pyke
> 
> Revenue exceeded spending by $53 billion in December, a record budget surplus for the month that reflects the U.S. governments success at cutting deficits in recent years.
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Well, as one of those very "older generation" members, I've not seen that go on, which is not to say I don't believe you or I think you're wrong.
> 
> The only thing I regret about SOME among the younger generations (true of some Millennials and some GenXers) is the unbridled bitter _resentment_ and sense of entitlement because we boomers didn't hand them a perfect world.
> 
> ...


It's funny, I must be oblivious to that. Of course, I don't that much contact these days other than with the kids and their friends and they are just not political. They are young mothers and men who drink. My SIL is a knee jerk Republican, I say that simply because he doesn't really pay attention to any details or check into anything he just thinks it's wrong if it appears to be liberal. My son considers himself a libertarian, but, really he isn't political. This daughter votes Dem, I am pretty sure, but doesn't discuss it. 
The older daughter is very active with issues and a lib. 
None of their friends have ever said a political statement around me. They have certainly never said anything about the state of the world. So I see no angst, just LOTS of beer swilling.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I wonder how many who were 'ruined' found more important things to live for.....or am I too hopeful? Probably.


You would like to think they took something positive out of the last time that a lack of ethics almost destroyed the world economy. I doubt it, though.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who didn't know this about Michelle Obama. I just ran across it while looking through the web site, Canadian Living, Inspiring Ideas for Everyday.

http://blogs.ancestry.com/cm/2012/09/12/using-dna-to-trace-michelle-obamas-past/?o_xid=54217&o_lid=54217&o_sch=Content+Marketing


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Here's a littel good news (depending on which side you're on, I suppose -- and isn't it too bad being on the "American side" isn't enough to enable one to appreciate this news?):


Now wouldn't that be a nice way to finance those unemployment checks?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Ah, that ole male privilege strikes again.
> 
> A lot of years ago Gloria Steinem pointed out that to have men 'help with the housework' is just a higher form of sexism because that means all the responsibility still falls to us. WE are usually the ones responsible for figuring out what needs to be done and organizing the household and its people to get it done unless we do it ourselves. We're usually the ones who make out the menus and do the grocery shopping (or make the lists). We're the ones who handle or arrange for the child care. You name it relative to domestic issues or what I like to call "life maintenance tasks" and the responsibility is first and foremost women's.
> 
> ...


The other side of that equation would be that both of my daughters are what they refer to as "surface cleaners", counters clear, sink empty, no toys in the living room... but their mother, the cluttered person is the one who can put her finger on anything around within 30 seconds.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Here's a littel good news (depending on which side you're on, I suppose -- and isn't it too bad being on the "American side" isn't enough to enable one to appreciate this news?):


How much will you bet that the righties will still scream deficit and budget cuts and still refer to Democrats as tax and spend?

_Bring forward the people who are blind but have eyes, also the deaf who have ears._ Isaiah 43:8

_5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see.
6 They have ears, but cannot hear,
noses, but cannot smell._
(These lines are not precisely true. They never stop speaking, and boy do they smell!) Psalms 115:5-6


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How much will you bet that the righties will still scream deficit and budget cuts and still refer to Democrats as tax and spend?
> 
> _Bring forward the people who are blind but have eyes, also the deaf who have ears._ Isaiah 43:8
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You would like to think they took something positive out of the last time that a lack of ethics almost destroyed the world economy. I doubt it, though.


Clearly not. Look at what they did to Glass-Steagall the instant they could.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Clearly not. Look at what they did to Glass-Steagall the instant they could.


Sadly, yes. And as one of my conservative friends pointed out, even Barney Frank would have voted to dump it is they have given him just one little thing that he wanted. 
*&)$#( creeps.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I'm just wondering if I'm the only one who didn't know this about Michelle Obama. I just ran across it while looking through the web site, Canadian Living, Inspiring Ideas for Everyday.
> 
> http://blogs.ancestry.com/cm/2012/09/12/using-dna-to-trace-michelle-obamas-past/?o_xid=54217&o_lid=54217&o_sch=Content+Marketing


What a great story. Thanks for posting.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.
> 
> Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca.


 :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Sadly, yes. And as one of my conservative friends pointed out, even Barney Frank would have voted to dump it is they have given him just one little thing that he wanted.
> *&)$#( creeps.


Was your con friend right? Barney Frank wasn't always predictable. Still, he was fun to have around. Sorry he's gone.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. But since she'll never read my messages again, I never have to be respectful to her again.


 That proves that LukeLucy is the WINNER here. Way to go LL.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


A totally absurd assumption by someone who is invincibly ignorant. No wonder you cheered for it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That proves that LukeLucy is the WINNER here. Way to go LL.


Okay, I'll let her win, though it would be bad parenting.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What a great story. Thanks for posting.


 :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was your con friend right? Barney Frank wasn't always predictable. Still, he was fun to have around. Sorry he's gone.


The discussion began, of course, with him charging that Frank had voted for it and I HAD to prove that he did NOT. 
I have forgetten now what the assertion was about why he voted NO. It seemed reasonable, though, that he might have chosen for that reason to, or he may just have voted NO because it was the right thing to do.

http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/economic-issues/60404-repeal-glass-steagall-bi-partisan.html


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'll let her win, though it would be bad parenting.


She's a winnah all right.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was your con friend right? Barney Frank wasn't always predictable. Still, he was fun to have around. Sorry he's gone.


He sure was, that was one of the bright spots to moving south of Boston, Barney Frank was my rep for a short time. 
And now I have a Kennedy, who would have thought?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know--but those stubborn spoiled children in Congress had better chart a new course for themselves...and soon. Obama won't be President forever, and there's no absolute guarantee that another Democrat will take the White House. If the economy is in utter shambles by 2016 and Christie or someone like that is President, they're going to have a hard time persuading folks that it's all Obama's fault.


If after 8 years the economy is still in utter shambles, then yes it is Obama's fault.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> :thumbup:


I had seen that somewhere, I find the family connections fascinating. 
All that disdain, all of those rapes, all that family...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If after 8 years the economy is still in utter shambles, then yes it is Obama's fault.


You missed Susan's point, but what can one expect from the person KPG called an imbecile?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Knitry, I think you need to work on your sense of charity. You don't like me because I misunderstood ONE post you wrote and responded to it as if you were serious. As far as I could tell, you immediately classified me as a fool when you read my post. You punched back, I punched back harder and so the thing went.
> 
> You seem to have found it easy to criticize what Yarnie has had to say right from word one. She's actually a pretty decent human being, and if the two of you believe different things, so what? Do you really want to keep the dance the KPG so loves alive and well here?


Of course she does. You didn't misunderstand anything, you had a different opinion that's all and were blasted for it. She thinks she is the smartest person in the room and deserves all of the attention that brings with it. Whoever doesn't agree with her, gets blasted. It's as simple as she is.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Of course she does. You didn't misunderstand anything, you had a different opinion that's all and were blasted for it. She thinks she is the smartest person in the room and deserves all of the attention that brings with it. Whoever doesn't agree with her, gets blasted. It's as simple as she is.


She's simply the best-informed; you think she thinks she's the smartest. You're a very bad mind-reader, among other things.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You missed Susan's point, but what can one expect from the person KPG called an imbecile?


Not to mention someone who doesn't know that President Obama has been in office for 5 years. That the economy had not tanked 8 years ago, might be another clue...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Purl--happily BIL made a full recovery, but his career was over. This was a few years back when the economy tanked--there was no way any company would hire a man who was a cancer survivor, and in his late 50s to boot. He took early retirement and, as my sister earns a good income, things worked out financially--but it's been a major blow to his pride. She works 60+ hours a week, he stays home and manages the house and their two teen-age boys--definitely not an arrangement that uber-conservative man ever expected.


What's wrong with the man being a stay-at-home dad? The house and kids are his also. Life changes, adaptions need to be made and thankfully things worked out well for them.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not to mention someone who doesn't know that President Obama has been in office for 5 years. That the economy had not tanked 8 years ago, might be another clue...


Since 2016 was used as the time frame, that would make Obama being in office for 8 years. Maybe one of your friends can help you with your math.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What's wrong with the man being a stay-at-home dad? The house and kids are his also. Life changes, adaptions need to be made and thankfully things worked out well for them.


The statement was that the man didn't expect it. You would probably have to ask him or some other ultra conservative suddenly relegated to washing floors in an apron with his teen sons looking on what is WRONG with it, nobody here said that wrong was at issue.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> There were, LKholcomb, some suicides, according to this article not as many as we were led to believe in the generations right after the Depression.
> The lesser reports may have been because people couldn't get a pay out form life insurance if it was suicide.
> Anyway, this is what I found.
> 
> http://www.worststockmarketcrashes.com/crash-of-1929/october-1929-stock-market-crash-suicides/


I have always thought, and it made more sense to me, that more people of previous wealth killed themselves after the initial date. I thought that they became more desperate when they realized that their wealth was truly gone and they were down with the normal folks. In my experience that doesn't happen until a later date because they still seem to have that "invincibility, can't-touch-me" belief until the creditors really come calling. That's just what I've personally seen.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I agree, LKholcomb, I more than agree. It pisses me right off.
> The same thing with derogatory comments about the manners of young folks, that one annoys the daylights out of me as well.
> I think what we see is an adolescent inability to "see" what needs to be done. Heck, I live with two men right now who are still oblivious to what needs to be done around the house.
> I see what I harp on all the time, the people in charge not training staff and consumers who are willing to accept poor service so that they can roll their eyes and talk about a lousy work ethic, maybe.
> ...


 :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What's wrong with the man being a stay-at-home dad? The house and kids are his also. Life changes, adaptions need to be made and thankfully things worked out well for them.


No problem at all if it's by choice. My point was that a lot of "older" workers--those in their 40s and up--really got the shaft when the economy crashed. They lost their jobs through no fault of their own and now, even though things are better, it's too late for them to resume their careers.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Since 2016 was used as the time frame, that would make Obama being in office for 8 years. Maybe one of your friends can help you with your math.


Oh, then you don't object to our pointing out Bush's responsibility for the current economy? Or do you need one of your friends to help you with your history? (Not that they'd be of any help, since they're so uninformed.)


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think most of us would feel less successful if we "sold out", and that sometimes it's up for grabs about selling out. Sometimes we make compromises with our idealism to achieve some dream, if it's the only way to get where we want to be, may well be very temporary, and doesn't mean playing fast and loose with our ideals, but making an occasional, slight modification.
> 
> Yes, I think I'm talking about a combination of self-confidence and strength of character. I believe these qualities have a lot of influence on helping us stick with our ideals and dreams. To "follow the path with heart" takes some very hard work sometimes, as well as a very thick skin.
> 
> The concept of having a "solid work ethic" is being discussed here. I'm kind of talking about that when I say it takes some very hard work to achieve a particular end. I see this willingness to work hard as a positive aspect of having a "solid work ethic", or maybe an entirely different attitude about working hard. There is a lot of negative weight behind that phrase "solid work ethic".


Just so you know, I wasn't thinking of the way you used solid work ethic. I was only talking about those who used it in the negative way


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I do think the term "solid work ethic" is used to "blackmail" younger employees who aren't in a position, for many reasons, to stand up to that form of blackmail. I think this term is also used in a negative and nostalgic way by older employees. They talk about "the good old days" that they may not even have been alive for, if those good old days ever really existed. This forms another part of the attack on younger workers. Then there's the fact that we're social animals so we seek to rank ourselves and those around us by whatever beliefs our little corner of human society uses to rank its members. Age is often one of the standards used in this kind of social ranking. Seniority in the workplace means a lot, too.
> 
> In my last job before retirement, I saw the opposite of the young and old employees use of having a "solid work ethic". I worked for a large HMO in a department that underwent radical change and expansion. Older employees in very responsible positions were under a lot of pressure to accomplish certain goals. Most of them, myself included, couldn't keep up with the younger employees who were hired as part of this big expansion. More and more in the early months of this expansion younger employees who could do the same highly responsible jobs faster than older workers were hired. Man, they really left some of us in the dust even though we worked very hard to meet the goals set for us. A few of us retired because we could and the others found jobs in other departments that were as responsible as the jobs they had, but were a bit more relaxed.


I would think in the situation of your previous work that it may not have been the younger had "better work ethic" but that they could move faster, and most importantly they could adapt faster. They grew up in the age of computers. In the computer world things change all the time and to stay current, say just on video games, you have to learn completely new skills all the time. I think that priming when we were younger (although we only ever had one computer until I was in high school and it was very outdated very fast, lol) prepared us to change all the time as adults in the job. It was "work ethic" as a moral or personal trait it was a skill we learned outside of our personal ethics. So even when there are older vs younger and the younger "win" in a manner of speaking, it's not that the older are devoid in the work ethic area. Those from older generations have other skills, that should also be utilized in the workplace IMO. Now I have seen those of the older generation who have been overtaken by the younger because of poor work ethic, but those are not the ones I'm speaking of in this post.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No problem at all if it's by choice. My point was that a lot of "older" workers--those in their 40s and up--really got the shaft when the economy crashed. They lost their jobs through no fault of their own and now, even though things are better, it's too late for them to resume their careers.


Wrong!!! Poor life choice, getting cancer treatments. Or if they lose their jobs, all they need do is look for another one. "One can chose to become successful and take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals or chose to stay where one is and stagnate, always depending on someone else to do the hard part for them. It is not written anywhere that life will be easy," says one of the geniuses on the right.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wrong!!! Poor life choice, getting cancer treatments. Or if they lose their jobs, all they need do is look for another one. "One can chose to become successful and take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals or chose to stay where one is and stagnate, always depending on someone else to do the hard part for them. It is not written anywhere that life will be easy," says one of the geniuses on the right.


You're so right, PP. Why didn't I realize it before? Of course BIL should have had his prostrate removed as a young man on a just-in-case business. Sacrificing one's non-essential body parts for the good of the company--now THAT'S what I call a solid work ethic!


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Ah, that ole male privilege strikes again.
> 
> A lot of years ago Gloria Steinem pointed out that to have men 'help with the housework' is just a higher form of sexism because that means all the responsibility still falls to us. WE are usually the ones responsible for figuring out what needs to be done and organizing the household and its people to get it done unless we do it ourselves. We're usually the ones who make out the menus and do the grocery shopping (or make the lists). We're the ones who handle or arrange for the child care. You name it relative to domestic issues or what I like to call "life maintenance tasks" and the responsibility is first and foremost women's.
> 
> ...


My son as a toddler got a toy cleaning kit and a doll when he wanted them and the person who even suggested I was making him "less manly" was promptly put in their place! As my mother used to say, "how can a boy learn to be a parent if they don't have practice?" I think a lot of our culture can go back to the toys and play as a child. Trying to knock it out when we become adults is nearly impossible because it was put in so early and long ago.

They do now have plenty of "for women" pornography, so I don't see it as a completely unequal or "women controlling" thing anymore, Also in many pornography there is a dominant woman, not the woman controlled by the man. It's been a subtle culture shift in pornography that still hasn't happened in our regular culture.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not to mention someone who doesn't know that President Obama has been in office for 5 years. That the economy had not tanked 8 years ago, might be another clue...


Well, I apologize, I didn't pay enough attention to Susanmos2000's point about the 2016 change over. 
Yes, the problem probably will be recorded as President Obama's on the surface. Real historians will cover the obstructionism of the far right wing.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, then you don't object to our pointing out Bush's responsibility for the current economy? Or do you need one of your friends to help you with your history? (Not that they'd be of any help, since they're so uninformed.)


You've been blaming Bush for everything for the last 5 years, plus campaign time. What's new? The WH always chooses the path that leads them to carrying the least blame. I am surprised there are so few black eyes, as there is so much finger pointing going on. Maybe there should be finger pointing control laws, along with gun control laws.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If after 8 years the economy is still in utter shambles, then yes it is Obama's fault.


Well, Bush created the shambles, and the Republican's have followed in his footsteps making sure that President Obama has had to deal with the shambles they're creating. So, Nope, I don't buy it. President Obama is doing the best he can, under the circumstances that he has to deal with from the Republicans. Time to stop the blame game.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> You've been blaming Bush for everything for the last 5 years, plus campaign time. What's new? The WH always chooses the path that leads them to carrying the least blame. I am surprised there are so few black eyes, as there is so much finger pointing going on. Maybe there should be finger pointing control laws, along with gun control laws.


The truth is that most of the blame, again or before, belongs to congress who were the dipsticks to draft (Republicans) and vote for the repeal of Glass-Seagall. 
POTUS Bush couldn't do the stupid stuff that he did without Congress and POTUS Clinton fixing something that wasn't broken.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Well, Bush created the shambles, and the Republican's have followed in his footsteps making sure that President Obama has had to deal with the shambles they're creating. So, Nope, I don't buy it. President Obama is doing the best he can, under the circumstances that he has to deal with from the Republicans. Time to stop the blame game.


Says you, after blaming Bush yet again.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're so right, PP. Why didn't I realize it before? Of course BIL should have had his prostrate removed as a young man on a just-in-case business. Sacrificing one's non-essential body parts for the good of the company--now THAT'S what I call a solid work ethic!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> My son as a toddler got a toy cleaning kit and a doll when he wanted them and the person who even suggested I was making him "less manly" was promptly put in their place! As my mother used to say, "how can a boy learn to be a parent if they don't have practice?" I think a lot of our culture can go back to the toys and play as a child. Trying to knock it out when we become adults is nearly impossible because it was put in so early and long ago.
> 
> They do now have plenty of "for women" pornography, so I don't see it as a completely unequal or "women controlling" thing anymore, Also in many pornography there is a dominant woman, not the woman controlled by the man. It's been a subtle culture shift in pornography that still hasn't happened in our regular culture.


My grandson loves to cook in his little kitchen, one of his favorite gifts for Santa Day was a dish drainer with new plates and utensils. <smh>
And he got the set of broom and cleaning items that was rated in the weirdest toy section...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> My son as a toddler got a toy cleaning kit and a doll when he wanted them and the person who even suggested I was making him "less manly" was promptly put in their place! As my mother used to say, "how can a boy learn to be a parent if they don't have practice?" I think a lot of our culture can go back to the toys and play as a child. Trying to knock it out when we become adults is nearly impossible because it was put in so early and long ago.


Kudos to you and your mother, Lkholcomb! Even in this day and age sexism runs rampant in our society--particularly where children are concerned. It's so good to hear of people successfully bucking the tide.

:thumbup:

We have a son, and the battle over what constitutes appropriate toys and activities for him is never ending in our house. When we were casting around for a sport I wanted my son to take ballet lessons--it's a beautiful art form, and the slow strengthening it requires would have helped his asthma. I won't bother to describe my husband's reaction, but to say he blew a gasket would be an understatement.

Toys: When my son was younger he wanted not dolls but a pink plastic Fisher Price pocketbook he spotted in the toy department. To his joy I purchased it for him--only to see it vanish within hours after returning home. My son was so distraught I had to buy him another and practically stand guard over the thing for weeks and months, until he finally lost interest.

Jewelry too is a problem. My son liked--still does--those rings and baubles kids get out of gum machines. My husband used to wince when my son showed up for breakfast with a ring on each finger and three or four gold-colored plastic chains around his neck. That stuff too had a way of mysteriously vanishing...until I bought my son a small cash box with a key and encouraged him to tuck away his treasures "so they won't get lost".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> My grandson loves to cook in his little kitchen, one of his favorite gifts for Santa Day was a dish drainer with new plates and utensils. <smh>
> And he got the set of broom and cleaning items that was rated in the weirdest toy section...


Send him to my place, Janet. He could use those little brooms and things to his heart's content!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You've been blaming Bush for everything for the last 5 years, plus campaign time. What's new? The WH always chooses the path that leads them to carrying the least blame. I am surprised there are so few black eyes, as there is so much finger pointing going on. Maybe there should be finger pointing control laws, along with gun control laws.


Funnneeee!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The truth is that most of the blame, again or before, belongs to congress who were the dipsticks to draft (Republicans) and vote for the repeal of Glass-Seagall.
> POTUS Bush couldn't do the stupid stuff that he did without Congress and POTUS Clinton fixing something that wasn't broken.


Sad but true.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Kudos to you and your mother, Lkholcomb! Even in this day and age sexism runs rampant in our society--particularly where children are concerned. It's so good to hear of people successfully bucking the tide.
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> ...


When my son was about 3, he used to help me with hand-sewing - buttons, hems, things like that. He would push the needle down where I asked him to, and I would take it from the bottom and push it back up. One day my FIL came in while we were replacing buttons, and he became furious. Boys were not supposed to sew; I was going to ruin this child; etc.

At that time of his life, my FIL worked in a tie factory, sewing in linings by hand.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Send him to my place, Janet. He could use those little brooms and things to his heart's content!


I have first dibs when his uncle moves out. We are moving his little recliner out of his room and into Grammy's space so he can visit better.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Says you, after blaming Bush yet again.


The truth hurts doesn't it :?: :?: :?:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> When my son was about 3, he used to help me with hand-sewing - buttons, hems, things like that. He would push the needle down where I asked him to, and I would take it from the bottom and push it back up. One day my FIL came in while we were replacing buttons, and he became furious. Boys were not supposed to sew; I was going to ruin this child; etc.
> 
> At that time of his life, my FIL worked in a tie factory, sewing in linings by hand.


That's hilarious because of course tailors have traditionally been men!

My son's art teacher taught the kids sewing one trimester, and I was both surprised and pleased when he successfully stitched up a little Christmas tree ornament. He did a beautiful job, and I always love seeing that ornament on the tree each year.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wrong!!! Poor life choice, getting cancer treatments. Or if they lose their jobs, all they need do is look for another one. "One can chose to become successful and take the necessary steps to accomplish their goals or chose to stay where one is and stagnate, always depending on someone else to do the hard part for them. It is not written anywhere that life will be easy," says one of the geniuses on the right.


LOL, young or old if something goes wrong it is personal responsibility, unless it is someone operating under the GRACE of GOD and then it is all on that entity.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> When my son was about 3, he used to help me with hand-sewing - buttons, hems, things like that. He would push the needle down where I asked him to, and I would take it from the bottom and push it back up. One day my FIL came in while we were replacing buttons, and he became furious. Boys were not supposed to sew; I was going to ruin this child; etc.
> 
> At that time of his life, my FIL worked in a tie factory, sewing in linings by hand.


It would seem he just felt like being critical. Was he a conservative?
While I was gone I constructed a golf course. I think it was really mini-golf as he laid railing out along the course, either that or he was building one with handicap accessibility.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I just thought this one was funny.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It would seem he just felt like being critical. Was he a conservative?
> While I was gone I constructed a golf course. I think it was really mini-golf as he laid railing out along the course, either that or he was building one with handicap accessibility.


I don't think he was anything particular as far as politics went. He probably voted Democratic in loyalty to FDR but would vote either party in local elections.

I think it was more that he had never wanted to work in a factory. He was, some years before I knew him, part owner of a furniture store. When his partner ran away with all the money, the best job he could get in a hurry was at the tie factory. There was no unemployment insurance because he hadn't been employed, and a family of 5 can't wait long for money to start coming in. (It would never have occurred to him or anyone else in his circle to apply for help from the govt.)

_That's_ a work ethic, and his story demonstrates why life choices have only partial influence on one's future. The luck of the draw is a lot stronger.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I just thought this one was funny.
> 
> And this one is too true.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD:


I would also think that by now I could post two pics and a few words.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would also think that by now I could post two pics and a few words.


And so you did. The kid one was funny, but the Reagan one was real.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Here's one for LL, even though she'll never see it:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

There's a funny short piece in today's Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/14/1269495/-Hilarious-editorial-by-Star-Ledger-mocks-GOP-What-bridge-scandal-Benghazi-Benghazi-Benghazi?detail=facebook?detail=email


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think he was anything particular as far as politics went. He probably voted Democratic in loyalty to FDR but would vote either party in local elections.
> 
> I think it was more that he had never wanted to work in a factory. He was, some years before I knew him, part owner of a furniture store. When his partner ran away with all the money, the best job he could get in a hurry was at the tie factory. There was no unemployment insurance because he hadn't been employed, and a family of 5 can't wait long for money to start coming in. (It would never have occurred to him or anyone else in his circle to apply for help from the govt.)
> 
> _That's_ a work ethic, and his story demonstrates why life choices have only partial influence on one's future. The luck of the draw is a lot stronger.


I think we have touched on this a bit at some other time, I cannot imagine the pain of having to do work I was not happy in just to earn a living. 
Now that generation may have been the oddest of all, the Depression kids? 
I am trying to think of when my friend's father would have been born. I think he must have been born in 1910 or there abouts. 
Anyway, he came home from WWII wounded, he had lost his toes. So whatever it was that he had been doing he could no longer do, and a store owner in Salem, MA hired him, he was so grateful and had this odd idea that he had contracted to work for a certain amount and never asked for a raise. His boss, it seems, never offered, either. 
They did allow him to take some overflow work, alterations, home so he made some extra cash from that. 
What an odd idea, though. In twenty years no raise to be had.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a funny short piece in today's Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/14/1269495/-Hilarious-editorial-by-Star-Ledger-mocks-GOP-What-bridge-scandal-Benghazi-Benghazi-Benghazi?detail=facebook?detail=email


That is funny! That idiot on the AM show on MSNBC did exactly the same thing this morning. 
I am not sure what those folks don't get about there being no there there.
I have no doubt that LL will see your cartoon, they are reading this just as much as they ever have.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Unemployment vote Fails 55 to 45.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Unemployment vote Fails 55 to 45.


Stupid stupid stupid *****.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Kudos to you and your mother, Lkholcomb! Even in this day and age sexism runs rampant in our society--particularly where children are concerned. It's so good to hear of people successfully bucking the tide.
> 
> :thumbup:
> 
> ...


I never will understand the obsession people have about boys playing with "girl toys" and the reverse. I mean even in the stores the toys that have been traditionally for boys (trucks, tools, ect) they have to make "girlie" with pink colors and market them for girls! Why separate the "girl" and "boy" sections? In my opinion it's just short sighted. If they market all toys to all kids then one would think they would sell more toys across the board.

Initially when I bought the doll for my son my husband winced. But he got over it (didn't have much of a choice, lol, I too would have kept buying them if if disappeared :wink: ). Now my husband lets my daughter put nail polish on his finger and toe nails (she asks me but it's not often she actually can do it since it's impossible to do any crafts with wet nails). My husband has even gone out in public with it and if anybody says anything he tells them his daughter did it. And he seems to be very proud when he does it. He as even allowed her to practice makeup application on him, allow he didn't go out in public with it.

My son does a traditional "girl" sport. He tried ballet but didn't like it. Both of my kids are cheerleaders. It's sad that I've had to warn him that people may make fun of him. But I tell you, this kid has MUSCLES! He's got a freaking six back and biceps rock hard from it, so it can't be too "easy".


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> When my son was about 3, he used to help me with hand-sewing - buttons, hems, things like that. He would push the needle down where I asked him to, and I would take it from the bottom and push it back up. One day my FIL came in while we were replacing buttons, and he became furious. Boys were not supposed to sew; I was going to ruin this child; etc.
> 
> At that time of his life, my FIL worked in a tie factory, sewing in linings by hand.


 :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think we have touched on this a bit at some other time, I cannot imagine the pain of having to do work I was not happy in just to earn a living.
> Now that generation may have been the oddest of all, the Depression kids?
> I am trying to think of when my friend's father would have been born. I think he must have been born in 1910 or there abouts.
> Anyway, he came home from WWII wounded, he had lost his toes. So whatever it was that he had been doing he could no longer do, and a store owner in Salem, MA hired him, he was so grateful and had this odd idea that he had contracted to work for a certain amount and never asked for a raise. His boss, it seems, never offered, either.
> ...


Most (by which I mean more than half) people end up working at jobs they don't like or at jobs that don't pay enough. My FIL did piecework, so he was paid by the piece, and he learned how to eat very fast so that he had more time to sew. That skill lasted to his death; when we had a meal with DH's parents, FIL was almost finished before the rest of us had buttered our bread.

Sad that your friend's dad apparently never thought to ask for a raise and his boss never offered. It's happening again these days, except sometimes if you ask you get "laid off."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I never will understand the obsession people have about boys playing with "girl toys" and the reverse. I mean even in the stores the toys that have been traditionally for boys (trucks, tools, ect) they have to make "girlie" with pink colors and market them for girls! Why separate the "girl" and "boy" sections? In my opinion it's just short sighted. If they market all toys to all kids then one would think they would sell more toys across the board.
> 
> Initially when I bought the doll for my son my husband winced. But he got over it (didn't have much of a choice, lol, I too would have kept buying them if if disappeared :wink: ). Now my husband lets my daughter put nail polish on his finger and toe nails (she asks me but it's not often she actually can do it since it's impossible to do any crafts with wet nails). My husband has even gone out in public with it and if anybody says anything he tells them his daughter did it. And he seems to be very proud when he does it. He as even allowed her to practice makeup application on him, allow he didn't go out in public with it.
> 
> My son does a traditional "girl" sport. He tried ballet but didn't like it. Both of my kids are cheerleaders. It's sad that I've had to warn him that people may make fun of him. But I tell you, this kid has MUSCLES! He's got a freaking six back and biceps rock hard from it, so it can't be too "easy".


George W. Bush was a cheerleader in high school and college. I can say no more.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> George W. Bush was a cheerleader in high school and college. I can say no more.


Don't ruin it for me! Lol

My kids are all-star cheerleaders, which is different from varsity cheerleading (no shouting, and it as more challenging things, like lifting girls with one hand in the older ones).


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> George W. Bush was a cheerleader in high school and college. I can say no more.


HA! One of her children will be president?
Should I say President or maybe Pope?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Don't ruin it for me! Lol
> 
> My kids are all-star cheerleaders, which is different from varsity cheerleading (no shouting, and it as more challenging things, like lifting girls with one hand in the older ones).


My daughter ( I used to say can this really be?) and her team did the football/basketball thing as cheerleaders. In addition they did competitions regionally, there were some pretty complex routines.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I never will understand the obsession people have about boys playing with "girl toys" and the reverse. I mean even in the stores the toys that have been traditionally for boys (trucks, tools, ect) they have to make "girlie" with pink colors and market them for girls! Why separate the "girl" and "boy" sections? In my opinion it's just short sighted. If they market all toys to all kids then one would think they would sell more toys across the board.
> [cut you down to size, sorry]
> 
> There is an illustration floating around on the internet showing a comparison from the '70s to product sold today "to girls". In forty years everything has gone pink, not just LEGO.
> All of the standards, strollers, stoves, fridge, everything you can think of...pink!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> HA! One of her children will be president?
> Should I say President or maybe Pope?


The Pope was once a bouncer.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Don't ruin it for me! Lol
> 
> My kids are all-star cheerleaders, which is different from varsity cheerleading (no shouting, and it as more challenging things, like lifting girls with one hand in the older ones).


I'm sorry. It's one of those facts stuck in the darkest recess of the brain.

I'm sure both of your kids are better than W in all respects.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There is an illustration floating around on the internet showing a comparison from the '70s to product sold today "to girls". In forty years everything has gone pink, not just LEGO.
> All of the standards, strollers, stoves, fridge, everything you can think of...pink!


Did you see one of the knitting threads maybe a year ago where people almost got into fisticuffs because a few knitters didn't like pink. One woman said they must be pathetic if they don't like pink.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Pope was once a bouncer.


Yes, I had heard that.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> My daughter ( I used to say can this really be?) and her team did the football/basketball thing as cheerleaders. In addition they did competitions regionally, there were some pretty complex routines.


Oh varsity is by no means "easy", I'm not trying to insult at all (I hope my kids will do varsity too). If you watch the national championships for varsity and then for all star cheer there is a difference. Probably due in big part to the fact that it is a continuous routine with no "break" for the shouting. I watched both the varsity, college, and all star nationals and they explained the difference so much better.

Edited: I found a bit better explanation http://cheerleading.about.com/od/wheretolearn/a/Understanding-The-Different-Types-Of-Cheerleaders.htm

Basically I think the difference is between the time spent preparing for competitions and practices.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Lkholcomb said:
> 
> 
> > I never will understand the obsession people have about boys playing with "girl toys" and the reverse. I mean even in the stores the toys that have been traditionally for boys (trucks, tools, ect) they have to make "girlie" with pink colors and market them for girls! Why separate the "girl" and "boy" sections? In my opinion it's just short sighted. If they market all toys to all kids then one would think they would sell more toys across the board.
> ...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you see one of the knitting threads maybe a year ago where people almost got into fisticuffs because a few knitters didn't like pink. One woman said they must be pathetic if they don't like pink.


It is pretty interesting that so many around here harp on other people being bullies but cannot tolerate someone having a different opinion. It is generally for really stupid differences. 
Sounds like a marriage. 
So they argue and bicker like that and then get down on anyone else who says something they don't like. 
I must admit I have enjoyed a few entries of "if you can't say anything nice..." 
though I find myself wandering less recently, too many threads to avoid and conversations to ignore.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is pretty interesting that so many around here harp on other people being bullies but cannot tolerate someone having a different opinion. It is generally for really stupid differences.
> Sounds like a marriage.
> So they argue and bicker like that and then get down on anyone else who says something they don't like.
> I must admit I have enjoyed a few entries of "if you can't say anything nice..."
> though I find myself wandering less recently, too many threads to avoid and conversations to ignore.


I haven't read any other KP threads in about a week. Between this on and real life, I haven't had time. And now that my oven's been repaired, I'll have even less time.

What is it that leads to such fights? Who cares what colors one person likes? There's no racism here, but we hate the ones who don't like pink?

I guess I have one knitting subject that could set me off, too, but it's not as trivial as pink.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't read any other KP threads in about a week. Between this on and real life, I haven't had time. And now that my oven's been repaired, I'll have even less time.
> 
> What is it that leads to such fights? Who cares what colors one person likes? There's no racism here, but we hate the ones who don't like pink?
> 
> I guess I have one knitting subject that could set me off, too, but it's not as trivial as pink.


Is brioche a worthwhile stitch?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> And to think many many years ago pink started out as a boy color!


It still can be, back in high school my son realized that the young girls just loved it if he named pink as his favorite color.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Is brioche a worthwhile stitch?


I don't know; I've rarely used it. That's not my subject; is it yours?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know; I've rarely used it. That's not my subject; is it yours?


Nope, not at all. I am thinking about practicing with some inexpensive yarn before I make a cowl with it .


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I haven't read any other KP threads in about a week. Between this on and real life, I haven't had time. And now that my oven's been repaired, I'll have even less time.
> 
> What is it that leads to such fights? Who cares what colors one person likes? There's no racism here, but we hate the ones who don't like pink?
> 
> I guess I have one knitting subject that could set me off, too, but it's not as trivial as pink.


I'm dying of curiosity, Purl -- what is your hot button knitting subject??

I'm glad I missed the pink kerfuffle. What has amazed me is how hostile KPers can get over using acrylic yarn or not. As a result, that's as close as I'll even get to that subject -- barely to mention it's highly controversial.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'm dying of curiosity, Purl -- what is your hot button knitting subject??
> 
> I'm glad I missed the pink kerfuffle. What has amazed me is how hostile KPers can get over using acrylic yarn or not. As a result, that's as close as I'll even get to that subject -- barely to mention it's highly controversial.


There's one person who will spend hours telling you everything that's wrong with acrylic - I think she's made a career of it. She also tells everyone how they can knit better, and she recently mentioned she's been knitting for all of three years. It doesn't take much to become a star on KP.

My subject? Well, I think that combination knitting is the only logical way to knit, and I'm not afraid to say so. Wanna fight?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nope, not at all. I am thinking about practicing with some inexpensive yarn before I make a cowl with it .


Let me know how it comes out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Some of them should be locked up:

"A story from a fake news website has apparently led the Colorado Republican state senator who thinks fried chicken causes black and Latino poverty to file a bill prohibiting the use of food stamps or other government aid at marijuana dispensaries, even to purchase things that could be legally obtained elsewhere with the public assistance. (Food stamps can only be used to buy food, remember.)"

The rest is at http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/13/1269341/-Fake-news-story-apparently-prompts-real-legislation-in-Colorado?detail=email


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Is brioche a worthwhile stitch?


I just did a two color brioche hat. I thought it was interesting. I try to do anything that is not seed stich, I love intricate patterns, such a lace and cables. I made my father a real Irish fisherman's sweater with Irish fisherman yarn years ago. My son-in-law has it now. I was very young and foolish back then, didn't dawn on me how intricate it was.........lol. Now I am hesitating making myself one.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I just did a two color brioche hat. I thought it was interesting. I try to do anything that is not seed stich, I love intricate patterns, such a lace and cables. I made my father a real Irish fisherman's sweater with Irish fisherman yarn years ago. My son-in-law has it now. I was very young and foolish back then, didn't dawn on me how intricate it was.........lol. Now I am hesitating making myself one.


Just what do you have against seed stitch? Bigot!
:evil: :evil:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> I just did a two color brioche hat. I thought it was interesting. I try to do anything that is not seed stich, I love intricate patterns, such a lace and cables. I made my father a real Irish fisherman's sweater with Irish fisherman yarn years ago. My son-in-law has it now. I was very young and foolish back then, didn't dawn on me how intricate it was.........lol. Now I am hesitating making myself one.


I LOVE seed stitch! NaNa


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Just what do you have against seed stitch? Bigot!
> :evil: :evil:


They get stuck in my teeth.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> They get stuck in my teeth.


So how do you feel about bobbles?

Do they go up your nose?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's one person who will spend hours telling you everything that's wrong with acrylic - I think she's made a career of it. She also tells everyone how they can knit better, and she recently mentioned she's been knitting for all of three years. It doesn't take much to become a star on KP.
> 
> My subject? Well, I think that combination knitting is the only logical way to knit, and I'm not afraid to say so. Wanna fight?


At least the one who was the most downright abusive was suspended (I found out because under the name "suspended" was there instead of "regular" or whatever title). Funny thing the two people who had been suspected of being an alias of the same was suspended at the exact same time.

I still avoid conversations about "that" yarn, lol.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> They get stuck in my teeth.


Do perennials grow in your mouth? Or at least cilantro?

Don't


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So how do you feel about bobbles?
> 
> Do they go up your nose?


I always want to call them nipples. That's what they look like.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

I don't do so much fancy stitches now, but am working on thrumming. I only read about it hear and am having fun making thrummed mittens and hats. Anybody here do that?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I'm dying of curiosity, Purl -- what is your hot button knitting subject??
> 
> I'm glad I missed the pink kerfuffle. What has amazed me is how hostile KPers can get over using acrylic yarn or not. As a result, that's as close as I'll even get to that subject -- barely to mention it's highly controversial.


That is a pretty funny one. Yes, indeed. 
I will put it right out there, I can't afford to knit with alpaca, small or large. 
I can't afford and am really not interested in angora. 
I take into consideration who will be wearing a piece, what kind of care they can give it... what is the point, really, in giving people who don't have personal space something they need to be really careful with.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> At least the one who was the most downright abusive was suspended (I found out because under the name "suspended" was there instead of "regular" or whatever title). Funny thing the two people who had been suspected of being an alias of the same was suspended at the exact same time.
> 
> I still avoid conversations about "that" yarn, lol.


This is exciting. Who were they? Were they the ones that somehow Country Bumpkins knew were suspended a couple of weeks ago?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I always want to call them nipples. That's what they look like.


And again you make me nearly choke on the soup I was having and almost spit it on the screen! :lol: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I don't do so much fancy stitches now, but am working on thrumming. I only read about it hear and am having fun making thrummed mittens and hats. Anybody here do that?


OH heck, I remember the term, but, don't remember what it means.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I don't do so much fancy stitches now, but am working on thrumming. I only read about it hear and am having fun making thrummed mittens and hats. Anybody here do that?


No, but I had heard of it long before KP. It hardly ever gets cold enough to need such warm mittens.

And now my brain has started playing "The Little Thrummer Boy." I have to lie down.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is exciting. Who were they? Were they the ones that somehow Country Bumpkins knew were suspended a couple of weeks ago?


I think that this incident was right after CB mentioned that. Or, of course, I could be wrong and it is just that I didn't know about it until the holier than thous had to spend hours saying "if you can't say anything nice..."


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No, but I had heard of it long before KP. It hardly ever gets cold enough to need such warm mittens.
> 
> And now my brain has started playing "The Little Thrummer Boy." I have to lie down.


HAHAHAAA, good one!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> At least the one who was the most downright abusive was suspended (I found out because under the name "suspended" was there instead of "regular" or whatever title). Funny thing the two people who had been suspected of being an alias of the same was suspended at the exact same time.
> 
> I still avoid conversations about "that" yarn, lol.


I think that acrylic thing comes up routinely. 
Why anyone cares what anyone else knits with is beyond me.
That is another item I have been lucky finding at thrift stores, tho.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> OH heck, I remember the term, but, don't remember what it means.


It is knitting in the roving of wool or (in my case) alpaca. It ends up giving it a warm lining. I made my husband a thrummed hat because I figured he needed the extra warmth since he's bald on top


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think that acrylic thing comes up routinely.
> Why anyone cares what anyone else knits with is beyond me.


Yup, that's my opinion too!

I got involved before in the conversation when the one person was actually telling people not to knit and give to charities if it was acrylic. Because that's something we need, LESS people giving to charity.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Yup, that's my opinion too!
> 
> I got involved before in the conversation when the one person was actually telling people not to knit and give to charities if it was acrylic. Because that's something we need, LESS people giving to charity.


Also more people giving to charity items that won't last past the first washing.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> It is knitting in the roving of wool or (in my case) alpaca. It ends up giving it a warm lining. I made my husband a thrummed hat because I figured he needed the extra warmth since he's bald on top


Sounds reasonable, all we ever did was use furniture polish on my dad's head. I think he enjoyed it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Off to do a few rows before falling into bed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Sounds reasonable, all we ever did was use furniture polish on my dad's head. I think he enjoyed it.


HAHAHAHAA

Are you old enough to remember the spray they used to sell on late-night infomercials that was a little fuzzy so it made bald spots look as though they were hairy? (Yeah, right.) Ron Popeil, creator of the pocket fisherman (another phrase that makes me think crazy thoughts), would demonstrate it on himself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm falling into bed without the rows bc I have a rotten backache from sitting at the computer all evening. Goodnight.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Of course she does. You didn't misunderstand anything, you had a different opinion that's all and were blasted for it. She thinks she is the smartest person in the room and deserves all of the attention that brings with it. Whoever doesn't agree with her, gets blasted. It's as simple as she is.


Well, I have to say I think she's the lib version of KPG, your rotten-to-the-core buddy. She supports the Occupy Movement which has been notoriously violent. Violence is evil. Interesting and educational posts don't always come from decent people.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Just so you know, I wasn't thinking of the way you used solid work ethic. I was only talking about those who used it in the negative way


You inspired me to go on a tangent about that solid work ethic thing.:thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> I would think in the situation of your previous work that it may not have been the younger had "better work ethic" but that they could move faster, and most importantly they could adapt faster. They grew up in the age of computers. In the computer world things change all the time and to stay current, say just on video games, you have to learn completely new skills all the time. I think that priming when we were younger (although we only ever had one computer until I was in high school and it was very outdated very fast, lol) prepared us to change all the time as adults in the job. It was "work ethic" as a moral or personal trait it was a skill we learned outside of our personal ethics. So even when there are older vs younger and the younger "win" in a manner of speaking, it's not that the older are devoid in the work ethic area. Those from older generations have other skills, that should also be utilized in the workplace IMO. Now I have seen those of the older generation who have been overtaken by the younger because of poor work ethic, but those are not the ones I'm speaking of in this post.


The younger workers I met definitely were faster at adapting, and had a certain amount of completely physical energy that us geezers didn't quite have. They also seemed to be able to multi-task more intensely. We (us?...) older workers did bring other skills to the table, but in the rush to accomplish major change in a large HMO those skills weren't as important as some of the skills the younger workers had. Once we had been milked for the influence we had with other, older workers throughout the HMO, the fruit of relationships throughout the system, we were pretty much deemed to be dry husks.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Also more people giving to charity items that won't last past the first washing.


I actually agree that it's probably better not to use acrylic for charity. It's one thing for me to use acrylic for myself as I often use those items as "fashion" items more than I depend on them for warmth.

And certainly my superwash and cotton items last as long, if not longer than any acrylic I've used and are just as easy to wash and keep clean. So I don't really understand that.

I also don't understand the comment that somehow, using superwash/cotton would result in less charity knitting. It's not like you can't get perfectly affordable yarns on sale etc.

But, I suppose whatever is allowed by the charity organizations is the way to go. Although I do question why they wouldn't consider the fact that acrylic isn't particularly dependable in terms of actually keeping people warm.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Also more people giving to charity items that won't last past the first washing.


My son does one day a week as a volunteer at the Salvation Army op shop and he said you would not believe the rubbish some people donate. It is only fit for the tip. They actually throw a lot of donated items on the tip. Someone donated several hundred vinyl, LP, records, and they were all taken to the tip by the op shop. People just do not buy the old LP records today and they only clutter up the shop. He said you would be surprised at the number of people do donate aeroplane headphones. I think some people pocket them thinking that they can use them with their ipod etc, but of course you cannot do this as the jack on the end is a twin jack and is only used on aeroplanes. We both have expensive noise cancelling headphones which have this aeroplane jack as a bonus item so we can use our own headphones on the aeroplane.
But he said,some clothing items are so badly stained and worn the shop can only dump them at the tip. It is possibly cheaper and easier to take things to the op shop bin than to take them to the tip.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My son does one day a week as a volunteer at the Salvation Army op shop and he said you would not believe the rubbish some people donate. It is only fit for the tip. They actually throw a lot of donated items on the tip. Someone donated several hundred vinyl, LP, records, and they were all taken to the tip by the op shop. People just do not buy the old LP records today and they only clutter up the shop. He said you would be surprised at the number of people do donate aeroplane headphones. I think some people pocket them thinking that they can use them with their ipod etc, but of course you cannot do this as the jack on the end is a twin jack and is only used on aeroplanes. We both have expensive noise cancelling headphones which have this aeroplane jack as a bonus item so we can use our own headphones on the aeroplane.
> But he said,some clothing items are so badly stained and worn the shop can only dump them at the tip. It is possibly cheaper and easier to take things to the op shop bin than to take them to the tip.


There is a rule of thumb for donating. If it is to ratty or stained for you to wear, then it is too ratty and stained for someone else to wear.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> I actually agree that it's probably better not to use acrylic for charity. It's one thing for me to use acrylic for myself as I often use those items as "fashion" items more than I depend on them for warmth.
> 
> And certainly my superwash and cotton items last as long, if not longer than any acrylic I've used and are just as easy to wash and keep clean. So I don't really understand that.
> 
> ...


That's the nice thing about superwash cotton. You can wash it! Personally, I donate wool hats and scarves because I find that the acrylic is rough and itchy. But that's how it affects me. Another person may find it comfy.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> There is a rule of thumb for donating. If it is to ratty or stained for you to wear, then it is too ratty and stained for someone else to wear.


Right, some things just call out to be used as rags or to go into the trash.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> HAHAHAHAA
> 
> Are you old enough to remember the spray they used to sell on late-night infomercials that was a little fuzzy so it made bald spots look as though they were hairy? (Yeah, right.) Ron Popeil, creator of the pocket fisherman (another phrase that makes me think crazy thoughts), would demonstrate it on himself.


Seems it really wasn't so long ago.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then it must be an easy pass on the budget. This should be fun.



Knitry said:


> Here's a littel good news (depending on which side you're on, I suppose -- and isn't it too bad being on the "American side" isn't enough to enable one to appreciate this news?):


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> How much will you bet that the righties will still scream deficit and budget cuts and still refer to Democrats as tax and spend?
> 
> _Bring forward the people who are blind but have eyes, also the deaf who have ears._ Isaiah 43:8
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> I actually agree that it's probably better not to use acrylic for charity. It's one thing for me to use acrylic for myself as I often use those items as "fashion" items more than I depend on them for warmth.
> 
> And certainly my superwash and cotton items last as long, if not longer than any acrylic I've used and are just as easy to wash and keep clean. So I don't really understand that.
> 
> ...


Everybody has their opinions about what is best, and that's fine. But in your post you were polite and didn't wish harm on people's kids (that happened, but it was removed after by admin I think) or that you told people that if they donated items that were acrylic they were killing those people and thir deaths (or maiming) would be on your head. That is what that one person did. It was horrific and I'm glad that some of those posts were removed.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> My son does one day a week as a volunteer at the Salvation Army op shop and he said you would not believe the rubbish some people donate. It is only fit for the tip. They actually throw a lot of donated items on the tip. Someone donated several hundred vinyl, LP, records, and they were all taken to the tip by the op shop. People just do not buy the old LP records today and they only clutter up the shop. He said you would be surprised at the number of people do donate aeroplane headphones. I think some people pocket them thinking that they can use them with their ipod etc, but of course you cannot do this as the jack on the end is a twin jack and is only used on aeroplanes. We both have expensive noise cancelling headphones which have this aeroplane jack as a bonus item so we can use our own headphones on the aeroplane.
> But he said,some clothing items are so badly stained and worn the shop can only dump them at the tip. It is possibly cheaper and easier to take things to the op shop bin than to take them to the tip.


First a question: was is the "tip"? I don't think we use that term here so I don't know ;-)

I remember being told by someone that people would donate used tea bags to some places (it was a collection for missionaries at the church, and then they only allowed donations of new items which left out my family since we could afford new clothes for us kids).

I donate used things, although mostly our things that are used get past down in the family. But to be honest I think most of what I donate I make, so it would be new.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I don't do so much fancy stitches now, but am working on thrumming. I only read about it hear and am having fun making thrummed mittens and hats. Anybody here do that?


I thrum all the time, so much that dh thinks the radio is on. Uh, no..I meant humming. Drives the man crazy, I tell you.

I've made thrummed mittens. They've always been happily received as gifts.

Karen N.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> I actually agree that it's probably better not to use acrylic for charity. It's one thing for me to use acrylic for myself as I often use those items as "fashion" items more than I depend on them for warmth.
> 
> And certainly my superwash and cotton items last as long, if not longer than any acrylic I've used and are just as easy to wash and keep clean. So I don't really understand that.
> 
> ...


I use anything that doesn't feel nasty. I have a load of nephew and nieces, each with at least two children, so I have to knit stuff that can be easily washed and dried.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My son does one day a week as a volunteer at the Salvation Army op shop and he said you would not believe the rubbish some people donate. It is only fit for the tip. They actually throw a lot of donated items on the tip. Someone donated several hundred vinyl, LP, records, and they were all taken to the tip by the op shop. People just do not buy the old LP records today and they only clutter up the shop. He said you would be surprised at the number of people do donate aeroplane headphones. I think some people pocket them thinking that they can use them with their ipod etc, but of course you cannot do this as the jack on the end is a twin jack and is only used on aeroplanes. We both have expensive noise cancelling headphones which have this aeroplane jack as a bonus item so we can use our own headphones on the aeroplane.
> But he said,some clothing items are so badly stained and worn the shop can only dump them at the tip. It is possibly cheaper and easier to take things to the op shop bin than to take them to the tip.


The part of New York City that has the most thrift shops (I assume that's what op shops are) is also the poshest. I don't know what they throw out, but there's some very lovely stuff for sale. I bought 5 silk scarves last year for $20, still with labels. I've seen junk, too, but nothing so bad as airplane headphones.

Pity the vinyl records can't be shipped overseas - there are shops here that are still selling them. What could people be thinking who bring stained and worn clothing? Is there some kind of tax deduction for such donations (there is here)?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> First a question: was is the "tip"? I don't think we use that term here so I don't know ;-)
> 
> I remember being told by someone that people would donate used tea bags to some places (it was a collection for missionaries at the church, and then they only allowed donations of new items which left out my family since we could afford new clothes for us kids).
> 
> I donate used things, although mostly our things that are used get past down in the family. But to be honest I think most of what I donate I make, so it would be new.


I think a tip is a dumpster. Where the used teabags should have gone.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The part of New York City that has the most thrift shops (I assume that's what op shops are) is also the poshest. I don't know what they throw out, but there's some very lovely stuff for sale. I bought 5 silk scarves last year for $20, still with labels. I've seen junk, too, but nothing so bad as airplane headphones.
> 
> Pity the vinyl records can't be shipped overseas - there are shops here that are still selling them. What could people be thinking who bring stained and worn clothing? Is there some kind of tax deduction for such donations (there is here)?


We are paying a hefty fee of $2.00 per bag for trash pick up these days. Actually, what we pay is $2.00 per bag. so there is certainly an advantage to dropping it into those bins that are outside certain locations as one drives by.

I see people looking through vinyl offerings all the time, it must be a northeast thing; it could be a "I am going to be at Antiques Roadshow and find out one is worth $10K thing", I suppose.

Oh boy, drums at 7:09 AM.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I thrum all the time, so much that dh thinks the radio is on. Uh, no..I meant humming. Drives the man crazy, I tell you.
> 
> I've made thrummed mittens. They've always been happily received as gifts.
> 
> Karen N.


Cute.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's the nice thing about superwash cotton. You can wash it! Personally, I donate wool hats and scarves because I find that the acrylic is rough and itchy. But that's how it affects me. Another person may find it comfy.


There is no such thing as superwash cotton. Cotton is washable it does not felt, might shrink a bit, but not felt. Usually the term 'superwash' is given to wool that has been chemically processed so that it does not shrink or felt. Then it has the feel and a similar look of non-processed wool, but it acts like acrylic.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> There is no such thing as superwash cotton. Cotton is washable it does not felt, might shrink a bit, but not felt. Usually the term 'superwash' is given to wool that has been chemically processed so that it does not shrink or felt. Then it has the feel and a similar look of non-processed wool, but it acts like acrylic.


I think she's referring to a wool/cotton blend. I've never used it, but I imagine it would be great for sweaters.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I generally use natural fibers--cotton for intarsia dishcloths (in ten years' time I expect to have enough for a bedspread), mohair and such for scarves. I do like acrylic for afghans, though. It soften up after a few washingd and wears like iron. I knit one about five years' back using Red Heart Supersaver, and despite a lot of wear and tear from kids and cats it's still in good shape.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> First a question: was is the "tip"? I don't think we use that term here so I don't know ;-)


The tip is the rubbish tip, the place that people and rubbish collectors take the rubbish to. It is sometimes a hole in the ground and sometimes a transfer station where the garbage or rubbish is dumped prior to being burnt in the industrial rubbish disposal furnaces. Commercial operators and builders etc also take their rubbish to a tip.

What do you call the place your household rubbish is taken to in your neck of the woods, please? Do you call it a garbage dump?

I will see if I can get a more precise definition.

From the web: 'The rubbish tip is the place where all of the community rubbish is taken and buried after it is collected from houses and yards.'

I just realised that to people outside Australia the word tip relates to tipping for services. As Australians do not normally tip I did not make the connection. Australians are paid a living wage and do not have to rely on tips to earn a living.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think a tip is a dumpster. Where the used teabags should have gone.


It is more than a dumpster. The dumpster or skip as we call them would be taken to the tip when full. It is the rubbish tip, I think you may call it the garbage dump. It is the great hole in the ground that the councils fill with rubbish or the place the rubbish is taken before it is transferred to the furnaces to be burnt.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

deleted as it was a duplicate post of the one above it.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The tip is the rubbish tip, the place that people and rubbish collectors take the rubbish to. It is sometimes a hole in the ground and sometimes a transfer station where the garbage or rubbish is dumped prior to being burnt in the industrial rubbish disposal furnaces. Commercial operators and builders etc also take their rubbish to a tip.
> 
> What do you call the place your household rubbish is taken to in your neck of the woods, please? Do you call it a garbage dump?
> 
> ...


We could tip the tippers, I suppose. 
We generally call that a dump or landfill.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think she's referring to a wool/cotton blend. I've never used it, but I imagine it would be great for sweaters.


Since she was responding to VocalLisa's post which said superwash/cotton, she may have just omitted the slash. I am waiting with tapping tootsies to find out for sure.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I take into consideration who will be wearing a piece, what kind of care they can give it... what is the point, really, in giving people who don't have personal space something they need to be really careful with.


Another consideration: where I live (Atlanta area), and the WAY I live (hardly ever outdoors except for coming and going, mainly to the car), wool is impractical. It took me quite a few years of living here before I came to my senses and realized it was stupid to buy wool clothing. So knitting with 100% wool is really stupid for me, unless it's sock yarn perhaps.

It's a shame too, because while I'm not a huge fan of winter, I do love winter clothes.

There are people who live here who seem to be fine with wool, and it's definitely still sold in the stores -- this isn't FLorida, after all -- but it's definitely not appropriate for me.

I do like yarn that has some wool content, such as Encore. I saw a cotton and wool yarn the other day (forget what) that looked interesting. But 100% wool is out of the question.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My subject? Well, I think that combination knitting is the only logical way to knit, and I'm not afraid to say so. Wanna fight?


Nope -- can't ague at all with what you find logical.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> It is more than a dumpster. The dumpster or skip as we call them would be taken to the tip when full. It is the rubbish tip, I think you may call it the garbage dump. It is the great hole in the ground that the councils fill with rubbish or the place the rubbish is taken before it is transferred to the furnaces to be burnt.


Think you are referring to the DNC


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I just did a two color brioche hat. I thought it was interesting. I try to do anything that is not seed stich, I love intricate patterns, such a lace and cables. I made my father a real Irish fisherman's sweater with Irish fisherman yarn years ago. My son-in-law has it now. I was very young and foolish back then, didn't dawn on me how intricate it was.........lol. Now I am hesitating making myself one.


I have no idea how to do the brioche stitch, but I do know that back in the early 80s "shaker stitch" sweaters were all the rage, and I got one. And I never got so sick of a sweater in all my life. I still cringe to think of it. Blech. So I'm not really a candidate for doing a brioche stitch anything, because it's basically the same stitch -- or close enough.

HOWEVER, I have to say that as I was looking at Google Images to compare the two, I did see some interesting pattern stitch uses for brioche that may make me think differently about it. For example: http://blog.knittersmercantile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/hosta.jpg


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I always want to call them nipples. That's what they look like.


Well, that _wasn't_ what they used to look like to me!!

But I bet that's all changed now.










LOL.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Another consideration: where I live (Atlanta area), and the WAY I live (hardly ever outdoors except for coming and going, mainly to the car), wool is impractical. It took me quite a few years of living here before I came to my senses and realized it was stupid to buy wool clothing. So knitting with 100% wool is really stupid for me, unless it's sock yarn perhaps.
> 
> It's a shame too, because while I'm not a huge fan of winter, I do love winter clothes.
> 
> ...


Same here, Janet. Here in California, 100% wool is simply too too much. A wool/cotton blend might work, though--that superwash stuff is definitely something I want to check out.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's the nice thing about superwash cotton. You can wash it! Personally, I donate wool hats and scarves because I find that the acrylic is rough and itchy. But that's how it affects me. Another person may find it comfy.


I use acrylics when I'm making something I know will see hard use. After washing, whatever I've made feels soft and is more pliable. However, A lot of Red Heart's "Super Saver" seems to have gone downhill. It's rougher to touch while making something out of it. Makes it kind of unpleasant to work. There are other brand of "super saver" acrylic yarns, though. Also, I'm allergic to wool so I don't knit or crochet with it. I love cotton and yarn made from animals other than sheep.

This reminds me of a topic about yarn snobs that was alive and well on KP for a while. Dare I admit that I like the following crafts in descending order of my personal fun rating. He'es the list, starting with the favorite. Crocheting, embroidery, fancy hand sewing, and knitting.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I use acrylics when I'm making something I know will see hard use. After washing, whatever I've made feels soft and is more pliable. However, A lot of Red Heart's "Super Saver" seems to have gone downhill. It's rougher to touch while making something out of it. Makes it kind of unpleasant to work. There are other brand of "super saver" acrylic yarns, though. Also, I'm allergic to wool so I don't knit or crochet with it. I love cotton and yarn made from animals other than sheep.
> 
> This reminds me of a topic about yarn snobs that was alive and well on KP for a while. Dare I admit that I like the following crafts in descending order of my personal fun rating. He'es the list, starting with the favorite. Crocheting, embroidery, fancy hand sewing, and knitting.


Quite a list! I have one too: knitting, crocheting, cross stitching, tatting. Frankly, I'd love to move crocheting at the top of the list, but it's so difficult for me. I'm a self-taught knitter and that's worked out fine, but learning to crochet from a book is infinitely harder for me. I keep thinking about going down to the LYS and arranging for lessons but so far haven't gotten around to it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> The tip is the rubbish tip, the place that people and rubbish collectors take the rubbish to. It is sometimes a hole in the ground and sometimes a transfer station where the garbage or rubbish is dumped prior to being burnt in the industrial rubbish disposal furnaces. Commercial operators and builders etc also take their rubbish to a tip.
> 
> What do you call the place your household rubbish is taken to in your neck of the woods, please? Do you call it a garbage dump?
> 
> ...


A lot of US cities provide both recycling and garbage pick-up service. I love it! We separate paper, plastic, glass, metal cans and gardening waste like grass clippings which leaves a lot less stuff to put in the garbage. Some cities have recycling bins for food waste, but not where I live.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Quite a list! I have one too: knitting, crocheting, cross stitching, tatting. Frankly, I'd love to move crocheting at the top of the list, but it's so difficult for me. I'm a self-taught knitter and that's worked out fine, but learning to crochet from a book is infinitely harder for me. I keep thinking about going down to the LYS and arranging for lessons but so far haven't gotten around to it.


Knitting uses my hands, arms neck and shoulders in a way that's a lot like typing. I've got a lot of RSIs, tendonitis, and arthritis and find that crocheting uses the same body parts in a different way so I can crochet a lot longer than I can knit


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> A lot of US cities provide both recycling and garbage pick-up service. I love it! We separate paper, plastic, glass, metal cans and gardening waste like grass clippings which leaves a lot less stuff to put in the garbage. Some cities have recycling bins for food waste, but not where I live.


Same, Maid. We're expected to separate the recyclables but, oddly enough, there's no separate container for gardening waste--that goes into the can with the regular garbage. One truck comes along for the garbage and another for the recyclables, where they're hauled to a central collection and sorted.

I remember my childhood city's initial attempts at recycling way back in the 80s. We were given one bin for the glass, one for the metals, one for textiles, one for paper etc etc--every house had seven or eight cans out front on Collection Day, plus an open pile of lawn clippings and garden waste that blew all over the neighborhood.

The garden waste initially proved to be the biggest headache. At first the stuff was hauled away to a giant compost heap on the edge of the city--but after just a few days a horrible stench of rotting vegetation filled the air. People complained, and the city responded by spraying that huge pile with scores of gallons of artificial pine scent. *gag* I'm laughing now, but at the time it wasn't the least bit funny.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Knitting uses my hands, arms neck and shoulders in a way that's a lot like typing. I've got a lot of RSIs, tendonitis, and arthritis and find that crocheting uses the same body parts in a different way so I can crochet a lot longer than I can knit


I like how quickly crocheting works up, and how much yarn from my stash it uses. I actually prefer the look of knitted pieces, but it's definitely a time-consuming craft. Tatting is even slower, which is why I only tat small items like Christmas tree ornaments and the occasionally doily. I've seen patterns for some beautiful tablecloths and such, but I know it would take me at least a decade to finish them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I have no idea how to do the brioche stitch, but I do know that back in the early 80s "shaker stitch" sweaters were all the rage, and I got one. And I never got so sick of a sweater in all my life. I still cringe to think of it. Blech. So I'm not really a candidate for doing a brioche stitch anything, because it's basically the same stitch -- or close enough.
> 
> HOWEVER, I have to say that as I was looking at Google Images to compare the two, I did see some interesting pattern stitch uses for brioche that may make me think differently about it. For example: http://blog.knittersmercantile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/hosta.jpg


Nah, but then I hate hostas.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Same, Maid. We're expected to separate the recyclables but, oddly enough, there's no separate container for gardening waste--that goes into the can with the regular garbage. One truck comes along for the garbage and another for the recyclables, where they're hauled to a central collection and sorted.
> 
> I remember my childhood city's initial attempts at recycling way back in the 80s. We were given one bin for the glass, one for the metals, one for textiles, one for paper etc etc--every house had seven or eight cans out front on Collection Day, plus an open pile of lawn clippings and garden waste that blew all over the neighborhood.
> 
> The garden waste initially proved to be the biggest headache. At first the stuff was hauled away to a giant compost heap on the edge of the city--but after just a few days a horrible stench of rotting vegetation filled the air. People complained, and the city responded by spraying that huge pile with scores of gallons of artificial pine scent. *gag* I'm laughing now, but at the time it wasn't the least bit funny.


I am just guessing that the pine scent defeated the purpose of the compost. 
I much prefer doing my own. Who can trust the neighbors to pay attention to animal fats and such?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Same here, Janet. Here in California, 100% wool is simply too too much. A wool/cotton blend might work, though--that superwash stuff is definitely something I want to check out.


Oh Lord, Susan, you are going to have them talking now! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> We are paying a hefty fee of $2.00 per bag for trash pick up these days. Actually, what we pay is $2.00 per bag. so there is certainly an advantage to dropping it into those bins that are outside certain locations as one drives by.


My guess is that that's what is happening. When we've been in the country for the summer, our only choices were to locate the town dump, which was usually well out of the way and charged for each bag; find a dumpster (this worked if there was a restaurant nearby, otherwise not); or bring our trash into the city and drop it into sidewalk trash cans (against some city ordinance, so we had to do it late). Then we realized that rest stops had large bins for trash. But I never thought to put my trash in a charity bin. Great idea, that.



> I see people looking through vinyl offerings all the time, it must be a northeast thing; it could be a "I am going to be at Antiques Roadshow and find out one is worth $10K thing", I suppose.


The latter sounds likely. Also, people used to put a lot of money into a sound system that had to include a turntable, so they might as well get vinyl. We have two, but nobody knows how to repair them.



> Oh boy, drums at 7:09 AM.


Sounds like you're off to a good start.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> It is more than a dumpster. The dumpster or skip as we call them would be taken to the tip when full. It is the rubbish tip, I think you may call it the garbage dump. It is the great hole in the ground that the councils fill with rubbish or the place the rubbish is taken before it is transferred to the furnaces to be burnt.


Thanks for the correction. The "great hole in the ground" is indeed call the dump."Tip" is a much less ugly word. As "skip" is less ugly than dumpster.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> deleted as it was a duplicate post of the one above it.


But it gives us another chance to look at that beautiful kitten. Is she praying? Is she yours?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Since she was responding to VocalLisa's post which said superwash/cotton, she may have just omitted the slash. I am waiting with tapping tootsies to find out for sure.


I'm not. She's been soundly corrected for that serious mistake.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I just love Bruce Springsteen and am developing quite an appreciation for Jimmy Fallon (so talented!) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM#t=213


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Think you are referring to the DNC


Wow, you made a little jokey. 

It's also an abbreviation for "dilation and curettage." Think that's funny, too?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I just love Bruce Springsteen and am developing quite an appreciation for Jimmy Fallon (so talented!) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM#t=213


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM#t=213

What a hoot!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not. She's been soundly corrected for that serious mistake.


Yep--twenty lashes with a wet strand of yarn!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I have no idea how to do the brioche stitch, but I do know that back in the early 80s "shaker stitch" sweaters were all the rage, and I got one. And I never got so sick of a sweater in all my life. I still cringe to think of it. Blech. So I'm not really a candidate for doing a brioche stitch anything, because it's basically the same stitch -- or close enough.
> 
> HOWEVER, I have to say that as I was looking at Google Images to compare the two, I did see some interesting pattern stitch uses for brioche that may make me think differently about it. For example: http://blog.knittersmercantile.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/hosta.jpg


Ooh, that's very pretty.

In my teens I knit a bolero in shaker or brioche or some kind of rib using some wool and mohair. It was very pretty, until I got home after wearing it a whole day and saw how much it had stretched. Never again.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow, you made a little jokey.
> 
> It's also an abbreviation for "dilation and curettage." Think that's funny, too?


You just wanted an excuse to use that emoti CON.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep--twenty lashes with a wet strand of yarn!


Ah, but it's handspun alpaca yarn from one of the crias.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ah, but it's handspun alpaca yarn from one of the crias.


Heehee--of course!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Think you are referring to the DNC


What is a DNC as I have never heard of this thing?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Same, Maid. We're expected to separate the recyclables but, oddly enough, there's no separate container for gardening waste--that goes into the can with the regular garbage. One truck comes along for the garbage and another for the recyclables, where they're hauled to a central collection and sorted.
> 
> I remember my childhood city's initial attempts at recycling way back in the 80s. We were given one bin for the glass, one for the metals, one for textiles, one for paper etc etc--every house had seven or eight cans out front on Collection Day, plus an open pile of lawn clippings and garden waste that blew all over the neighborhood.
> 
> The garden waste initially proved to be the biggest headache. At first the stuff was hauled away to a giant compost heap on the edge of the city--but after just a few days a horrible stench of rotting vegetation filled the air. People complained, and the city responded by spraying that huge pile with scores of gallons of artificial pine scent. *gag* I'm laughing now, but at the time it wasn't the least bit funny.


I first met recycling on the 80's in Seattle. I think the 80's were the big decade for starting recycling programs. We had 3 bins, don't remember the exact sorting for them but they filled up pretty good. No food waste allowed. We could put out as much gardening waste as we wanted once a month. My landlord lived across the street and we would coordinate to put about 10 old 55 gallon garbage cans out for that. Yes, we collected clippings and trimmings for that pick-up, but, again, nothing that would rot and smell up the place. We both had big yards and liked keeping them looking nice so we generated a lot of stuff. Garden waste went to a city composting operation. I don't recall hearing about any odor problems but i may have forgotten about that.

Seattle also raised the rates for garbage pickup to reflect the real expense of it. The good thing about that was that they added a small can, 30 gallons, that cost less than what we paid for one 55 gallon can. With recycling my household of 5 rarely filled the small can.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKHV0LLvhXM#t=213
> 
> What a hoot!


Funny. Springsteen was funnier than Fallon on that.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But it gives us another chance to look at that beautiful kitten. Is she praying? Is she yours?


She is beautiful, but not mine. It is a picture my son copied from the net and stored on the ipad. That is a favourite pasttime of his, he has a couple of hundred stored images on the ipad, in camera roll.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think crocheting is easier but I love the drape of knit. I switch back and forth, sometimes in the same project.



susanmos2000 said:


> Quite a list! I have one too: knitting, crocheting, cross stitching, tatting. Frankly, I'd love to move crocheting at the top of the list, but it's so difficult for me. I'm a self-taught knitter and that's worked out fine, but learning to crochet from a book is infinitely harder for me. I keep thinking about going down to the LYS and arranging for lessons but so far haven't gotten around to it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I like how quickly crocheting works up, and how much yarn from my stash it uses. I actually prefer the look of knitted pieces, but it's definitely a time-consuming craft. Tatting is even slower, which is why I only tat small items like Christmas tree ornaments and the occasionally doily. I've seen patterns for some beautiful tablecloths and such, but I know it would take me at least a decade to finish them.


I tend to think of knitting as something one does to make clothing. I live in a moderate climate, so sweaters would be done with sport weight yarns, so I get lazy and buy them unless I want something particularly nice. I can knit and crochet some really fancy lace motifs, but they take forever, kind of like tatting I suppose. I made my mother a crocheted shawl for Christmas with a shell pattern, and am working on another for a friend. When I finally get my disposable camera full of pictures and developed I am going to post my first pictures ever on KP. I'm starting an afghan using Lion Brand Homespun to give my brother for his birthday. Another thing to take a picture of...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I first met recycling on the 80's in Seattle. I think the 80's were the big decade for starting recycling programs. We had 3 bins, don't remember the exact sorting for them but they filled up pretty good. No food waste allowed. We could put out as much gardening waste as we wanted once a month. My landlord lived across the street and we would coordinate to put about 10 old 55 gallon garbage cans out for that. Yes, we collected clippings and trimmings for that pick-up, but, again, nothing that would rot and smell up the place. We both had big yards and liked keeping them looking nice so we generated a lot of stuff. Garden waste went to a city composting operation. I don't recall hearing about any odor problems but i may have forgotten about that.
> 
> Seattle also raised the rates for garbage pickup to reflect the real expense of it. The good thing about that was that they added a small can, 30 gallons, that cost less than what we paid for one 55 gallon can. With recycling my household of 5 rarely filled the small can.


Recycling definitely cuts down on the volume of garbage. We share two small "garbage" cans on wheels with three other tenants, and the things almost never fill to the top.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I tend to think of knitting as something one does to make clothing. I live in a moderate climate, so sweaters would be done with sport weight yarns, so I get lazy and buy them unless I want something particularly nice. I can knit and crochet some really fancy lace motifs, but they take forever, kind of like tatting I suppose. I made my mother a crocheted shawl for Christmas with a shell pattern, and am working on another for a friend. When I finally get my disposable camera full of pictures and developed I am going to post my first pictures ever on KP. I'm starting an afghan using Lion Brand Homespun to give my brother for his birthday. Another thing to take a picture of...


An afghan--that's ambitious. I've been working on the same one for ages and simply can't seem to finish it even though I have less than a foot to go.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Here's some more people who made poor life choices. These people -- like so many others -- made the poor life choice not to be born independently wealthy.



> *1,500 Applicants for 50 Jobs? The Reality in America Today*
> In New York last week, 1,500 people lined up for 50 apprenticeship positions as painters and decorators. These are union jobs, and only 500 applications are being accepted. Some hopefuls lined up in front of the District Council 9 office for days in extremely cold weather. If they are able to get the job, they will receive $17.20 an hour during the first year.
> 
> Source : http://www.profitconfidential.com/economic-analysis/1500-applicants-50-jobs-reality-america-today/


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ooh, that's very pretty.
> 
> In my teens I knit a bolero in shaker or brioche or some kind of rib using some wool and mohair. It was very pretty, until I got home after wearing it a whole day and saw how much it had stretched. Never again.


Stretched! Hmmmm, that might have been why I developed such a hatred for that sweater. I don't recall too many details at this point, except that I always ended up feeling really sloppy after I'd worn it for a few hours.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You just wanted an excuse to use that emoti CON.










I don't need excuses, and I'm not a con.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

And this is my last "news excerpt" for this afternoon. Charleston, WV, has been told their water is safe to drink now. Here's what it looks like, an image tweeted by a local resident:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024333694


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> What is a DNC as I have never heard of this thing?


I think LTL was referring to the Democratic National Committee. There is also a brand of embroidery thread called DNC, or maybe it's DMC.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Stretched! Hmmmm, that might have been why I developed such a hatred for that sweater. I don't recall too many details at this point, except that I always ended up feeling really sloppy after I'd worn it for a few hours.


Oh that was definitely it, sleeves 3 inches beyond your fingers...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> She is beautiful, but not mine. It is a picture my son copied from the net and stored on the ipad. That is a favourite pasttime of his, he has a couple of hundred stored images on the ipad, in camera roll.


A pastime for many people. I plan never to get an ipad or anything similar (I don't buy Apple products) because I, too, would end up saving hundreds of pictures, mainly of cats, of course.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think crocheting is easier but I love the drape of knit. I switch back and forth, sometimes in the same project.


I don't like the stiffness of crochet, which needs to be done in very fine yarn or else can be used for a doormat no matter what you think you've made.

Also, I can knit without looking because the next stitch is right there, but with crochet you have to look down to see where it is, which is more work than I'd like.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh that was definitely it, sleeves 3 inches beyond your fingers...


Ouch. My sweaters stretch to amazing dimensions while still on the needles--haven't attempted one since the infamous "bat sweater" of early 2013. Maybe this year, though.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I think LTL was referring to the Democratic National Committee. There is also a brand of embroidery thread called DNC, or maybe it's DMC.


Given the source I thought it stood for Do Not Connect--something to do with integrated circuits.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And this is my last "news excerpt" for this afternoon. Charleston, WV, has been told their water is safe to drink now. Here's what it looks like, an image tweeted by a local resident:
> 
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024333694


That's disgusting. It looks like a kitchen since after washing a load of dishes, combined with - oh, never mind. It's disgusting. Keep watching so you can let us know when the company wins the lawsuit.
:evil: :evil:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ouch. My sweaters stretch to amazing dimensions while still on the needles--haven't attempted one since the infamous "bat sweater" of early 2013. Maybe this year, though.


That's one I'd love to see.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Recycling definitely cuts down on the volume of garbage. We share two small "garbage" cans on wheels with three other tenants, and the things almost never fill to the top.


I share 4 cans with 3 other tenants and we usually fill up one and a half. Hooray for recycling!!:thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's one I'd love to see.


If I could get it away from my cats I'd post a photo. It came out beautifully in almost every respect--but the sleeves could have held Popeye's arms plus a few dozen cans of spinach. I tried to pick out the sewing so I could re-seam the thing and of course cut into the knitted fabric--the whole thing finally wound up in the cat bed. They were pleased, of course, but I was FURIOUS with myself. :evil:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> An afghan--that's ambitious. I've been working on the same one for ages and simply can't seem to finish it even though I have less than a foot to go.


i have 2 weeks, but I crochet and watch my soap operas (guilty confession) and some TV programs after dinner. I justify watching TV because I'm doing something useful at the same time. And the commercial breaks are very long so I do little steps of other jobs during those. My plate is very few now with taking over a bunch of thing for my mother, more house work, more cooking, the list goes on. Lumping with the TV and crocheting is very relaxing.

I'm heading for the couch, the crocheting, cleaning up from breakfast and making lunch during the commercials.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> i have 2 weeks, but I crochet and watch my soap operas (guilty confession) and some TV programs after dinner. I justify watching TV because I'm doing something useful at the same time. And the commercial breaks are very long so I do little steps of other jobs during those. My plate is very few now with taking over a bunch of thing for my mother, more house work, more cooking, the list goes on. Lumping with the TV and crocheting is very relaxing.
> 
> I'm heading for the couch, the crocheting, cleaning up from breakfast and making lunch during the commercials.


Sounds good! Talk to you later.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, I have to say I think she's the lib version of KPG, your rotten-to-the-core buddy. She supports the Occupy Movement which has been notoriously violent. Violence is evil. Interesting and educational posts don't always come from decent people.


This has bothered me most of the night. I don't recall much violence perpetrated by Occupy here. Sure, they annoyed a lot of Wall Street types, and they may have caused traffic to slow down, but most of the violence was on the part of police pushing them away from where they should have been allowed to assemble and taking (and destroying) they're stuff. Andrew Breitbart (RIP) would come by to tell them not to rape, but there was no indication that any rapists were really movement people.

"Notoriously violent"? They weren't the ones who shot pepper spray into the eyes of anyone and everyone who happened to be around, nor did they taze (sp?) anyone who didn't leave fast enough for them.

Unless you live in a notoriously violent area, it sounds as though you're blaming the victim, like Breitbart and Fox News.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Democratic National Committee?



EveMCooke said:


> What is a DNC as I have never heard of this thing?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Democratic National Committee?


Probably. And LTL stands for "little too late," which she usually is.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This has bothered me most of the night. I don't recall much violence perpetrated by Occupy here. Sure, they annoyed a lot of Wall Street types, and they may have caused traffic to slow down, but most of the violence was on the part of police pushing them away from where they should have been allowed to assemble and taking (and destroying) they're stuff. Andrew Breitbart (RIP) would come by to tell them not to rape, but there was no indication that any rapists were really movement people.
> 
> "Notoriously violent"? They weren't the ones who shot pepper spray into the eyes of anyone and everyone who happened to be around, nor did they taze (sp?) anyone who didn't leave fast enough for them.
> 
> Unless you live in a notoriously violent area, it sounds as though you're blaming the victim, like Breitbart and Fox News.


Well, you know how violent one must get to take care of LOTS and LOTS of medical bills for people.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/occupy-wall-street-activists-15m-personal-debt

It's just MIB.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, you know how violent one must get to take care of LOTS and LOTS of medical bills for people.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/occupy-wall-street-activists-15m-personal-debt
> 
> It's just MIB.


I guess that's an excuse. Not a good one, but an excuse.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess that's an excuse. Not a good one, but an excuse.


Well, I do believe I was told at the time that she attacked me that this is just who she is, what she does. 
Most of us are soft and ease up after a few days, Knitry is sticking to her word, I respect that. 
So I guess this is the time to say, I think it is sad that you would say what you consider hurtful things about Knitry, MIB. 
Sooner or later it will drive a wedge between you and the other libs who have honor. 
I won't say that you should apologize, I don't think that you will and I don't know that Knitry would accept. 
You need to at least stop piling it on. janet


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

maysmom said:


> I thrum all the time, so much that dh thinks the radio is on. Uh, no..I meant humming. Drives the man crazy, I tell you.
> 
> I've made thrummed mittens. They've always been happily received as gifts.
> 
> Karen N.


 :lol:


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I generally use natural fibers--cotton for intarsia dishcloths (in ten years' time I expect to have enough for a bedspread), mohair and such for scarves. I do like acrylic for afghans, though. It soften up after a few washingd and wears like iron. I knit one about five years' back using Red Heart Supersaver, and despite a lot of wear and tear from kids and cats it's still in good shape.


I still have the aphgan my grandmother made me about 20 years ago. It was made out of acrylic and is still looking grand!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This has bothered me most of the night. I don't recall much violence perpetrated by Occupy here. Sure, they annoyed a lot of Wall Street types, and they may have caused traffic to slow down, but most of the violence was on the part of police pushing them away from where they should have been allowed to assemble and taking (and destroying) they're stuff. Andrew Breitbart (RIP) would come by to tell them not to rape, but there was no indication that any rapists were really movement people.
> 
> "Notoriously violent"? They weren't the ones who shot pepper spray into the eyes of anyone and everyone who happened to be around, nor did they taze (sp?) anyone who didn't leave fast enough for them.
> 
> Unless you live in a notoriously violent area, it sounds as though you're blaming the victim, like Breitbart and Fox News.


They were quite violent in the two closest larger cities near me. I live in an urban area where 2 big cities and all the little towns in between have grown together over the years, so you have to see a street sign to let you know if you're in one town or another. Whatever inspired the violence I saw, and I am willing to believe that some people joined the Occupy protests so they could get violent without getting caught, I can't support a movement that includes violent protest, whatever the cause. Yes, I'm probably being a snob, or something equally elitist and exclusionary, but that's it for me.

I don't approve of people who support the idea of violent protest. I saw some of the worst of the violent protests for civil rights, against the war in Viet Nam and a couple of other supposedly good causes. I don't condone the actions of the police, either. They seem to get more and more trigger happy as days go by.

I was idly sitting in my front window one day in 1969 enjoying being on a quiet street with big trees when a gang of protesters who had just busted all the windows in a grocery store east of me went storming by headed for one to the west.They were riding on the coattails of a protest that rocked the town I lived in, including bringing a 7pm to 7am curfew, the National Guard, barbed wire in the intersections, and helicopters sweeping over MY town. I hustled my behind out of there and moved to Seattle.

I consider all people who commit violence to be animals until proven otherwise. For example, police officers across the country have proved over and over again that they are brutish animals with no conscience whatsoever when they think it's time to beat some heads or shoot some homeless person who brandishes a used kleenex at them.

As you can see, this subject gets me to rant and rave. Having said the above, I have to wait until I calm down before leaving the house so I don't forget my manners.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The tip is the rubbish tip, the place that people and rubbish collectors take the rubbish to. It is sometimes a hole in the ground and sometimes a transfer station where the garbage or rubbish is dumped prior to being burnt in the industrial rubbish disposal furnaces. Commercial operators and builders etc also take their rubbish to a tip.
> 
> What do you call the place your household rubbish is taken to in your neck of the woods, please? Do you call it a garbage dump?
> 
> ...


Actually our idea of a tip didn't come to mind oddly enough. I have enough oversease friends who use words in different ways or different words that we have just gotten used to just asking. This was after a few conversations where people went away more confused than before, lol.

We used to call it a garbage dump a long time ago, but now we call it a landfill over here.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They were quite violent in the two closest larger cities near me. I live in an urban area where 2 big cities and all the little towns in between have grown together over the years, so you have to see a street sign to let you know if you're in one town or another. Whatever inspired the violence I saw, and I am willing to believe that some people joined the Occupy protests so they could get violent without getting caught, I can't support a movement that includes violent protest, whatever the cause. Yes, I'm probably being a snob, or something equally elitist and exclusionary, but that's it for me.
> 
> I don't approve of people who support the idea of violent protest. I saw some of the worst of the violent protests for civil rights, against the war in Viet Nam and a couple of other supposedly good causes. I don't condone the actions of the police, either. They seem to get more and more trigger happy as days go by.
> 
> ...


There was very little violence in OW, and some that did occur happened because of outsiders that came in to cause trouble. Other claims of violence were invented or exaggerated by Fox News.

IMO, there's much more "violence" perpetuated against human beings by the corporations that OW were protesting about.

So if one is going to get angry about violence perpetuated against people, OW is FAR from the primary threat in that regard.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I use acrylics when I'm making something I know will see hard use. After washing, whatever I've made feels soft and is more pliable. However, A lot of Red Heart's "Super Saver" seems to have gone downhill. It's rougher to touch while making something out of it. Makes it kind of unpleasant to work. There are other brand of "super saver" acrylic yarns, though. Also, I'm allergic to wool so I don't knit or crochet with it. I love cotton and yarn made from animals other than sheep.
> 
> This reminds me of a topic about yarn snobs that was alive and well on KP for a while. Dare I admit that I like the following crafts in descending order of my personal fun rating. He'es the list, starting with the favorite. Crocheting, embroidery, fancy hand sewing, and knitting.


Oo, so do I, and you know MINE'S the best:  knitting, crocheting, spinning, designing new knitting pojects, designing little girls costume dresses, weaving, cross stitch, sewing, (attempts at) tatting, macramé.

There may be a few more my mind forgot, lol. I alternate all of these because sometimes one way might be too much for my body but another thing not.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, you know how violent one must get to take care of LOTS and LOTS of medical bills for people.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/12/occupy-wall-street-activists-15m-personal-debt
> 
> It's just MIB.


That is AWESOME!


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A pastime for many people. I plan never to get an ipad or anything similar (I don't buy Apple products) because I, too, would end up saving hundreds of pictures, mainly of cats, of course.


Now THAT's were Pinterest could be of service. You could "save" them there, leaving your whatever device free and unburdened. And you don't even ever have to look at them again -- unless, of course, you want to.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's disgusting. It looks like a kitchen since after washing a load of dishes, combined with - oh, never mind. It's disgusting. Keep watching so you can let us know when the company wins the lawsuit.
> :evil: :evil:


Oh, you're such an optimist.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So how do you feel about bobbles?
> 
> Do they go up your nose?


I love bobbles!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do perennials grow in your mouth? Or at least cilantro?
> 
> Don't


Cilantro tastes like a dish rag to me. I do not have the cilantro gene


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They were quite violent in the two closest larger cities near me. I live in an urban area where 2 big cities and all the little towns in between have grown together over the years, so you have to see a street sign to let you know if you're in one town or another. Whatever inspired the violence I saw, and I am willing to believe that some people joined the Occupy protests so they could get violent without getting caught, I can't support a movement that includes violent protest, whatever the cause. Yes, I'm probably being a snob, or something equally elitist and exclusionary, but that's it for me.
> 
> I don't approve of people who support the idea of violent protest. I saw some of the worst of the violent protests for civil rights, against the war in Viet Nam and a couple of other supposedly good causes. I don't condone the actions of the police, either. They seem to get more and more trigger happy as days go by.
> 
> ...


The Civil Right Movement was a non violent and passive resistance movement. It was supposed to show that violence and being "animals" were not the reasons that the black population was segregated, but simply on the basis of their skin color. It showed that very, very well.

I was told as a child that even though MLKjr didn't preach violence, it "followed" him, so therefore he was causing it (the textbooks I had growing up also tried to give biblical justification for slavery, so this isn't surprising). What the books left out was that the "violence that followed" was by those trying to continue to force segregation down every bodies throats!

http://mshistory.k12.ms.us/articles/62/the-civil-rights-movement-in-mississippi-on-violence-and-nonviolence

And I'm curious, if a mother was violent because of a perceived danger to her child would you consider her an "animal" until proved innocent? I happen to be a pacifist as well, but classifying someone who is violent as an animal seems to not peaceful in thoughts and intentions. Instead of classifying people who are violent as animals and judging them, I try to examine the situation and discover the root cause of the violence so it may be addressed as to prevent, or at least lessen, others following in the violence. To me it sounds like an excuse to give up on a person because it is an animal's nature to be violent.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> There was very little violence in OW, and some that did occur happened because of outsiders that came in to cause trouble. Other claims of violence were invented or exaggerated by Fox News.
> 
> IMO, there's much more "violence" perpetuated against human beings by the corporations that OW were protesting about.
> 
> So if one is going to get angry about violence perpetuated against people, OW is FAR from the primary threat in that regard.


To cite one source of violence is not to exclude any others. There is far too much violence in our society, our government, our military forces, in the business sector that commits violence by long distance through its greedy policies and practices, in our homes and schools and on our public streets, and on, and on, and on. Then we can stand back and begin to list the amount violence that exists worldwide.

We're the violent species on this planet, and if our social evolution has progressed so far as to lead us to believe violence is wrong, our physical evolution certainly hasn't caught up.

To bring all this back to the microcosm here, KPG is a great example of how one human being, appearing in one, tiny imaginary place on the great big internet can indulge in violent verbal attacks on other members of that tiny place. Most of us have done some of that, but some of us are also better at it and more attached to violence for its own sake and being right instead of being reasonable.

And I an still ranting and raving, so I still have to stay home a little longer until I an in a mroe peaceful state of mind.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> To cite one source of violence is not to exclude any others. There is far too much violence in our society, our government, our military forces, in the business sector that commits violence by long distance through its greedy policies and practices, in our homes and schools and on our public streets, and on, and on, and on. Then we can stand back and begin to list the amount violence that exists worldwide.
> 
> We're the violent species on this planet, and if our social evolution has progressed so far as to lead us to believe violence is wrong, our physical evolution certainly hasn't caught up.
> 
> ...


Sure these facts will calm you down
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2808548/posts


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> They were quite violent in the two closest larger cities near me. I live in an urban area where 2 big cities and all the little towns in between have grown together over the years, so you have to see a street sign to let you know if you're in one town or another. Whatever inspired the violence I saw, and I am willing to believe that some people joined the Occupy protests so they could get violent without getting caught, I can't support a movement that includes violent protest, whatever the cause. Yes, I'm probably being a snob, or something equally elitist and exclusionary, but that's it for me.
> 
> I don't approve of people who support the idea of violent protest. I saw some of the worst of the violent protests for civil rights, against the war in Viet Nam and a couple of other supposedly good causes. I don't condone the actions of the police, either. They seem to get more and more trigger happy as days go by.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. I live in New York City, not considered Politeness Central, yet there was no such behavior here, during Occupy or during the Vietnam War protests.

You realize that what you're doing is judging a large group on the basis of the limited contact you've had with a few. You know what that sounds like, I'm sure.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Cilantro tastes like a dish rag to me. I do not have the cilantro gene


LOL. I do a lot of Indian-type cooking so I can't avoid it. But I have pretty good-tasting dish rags - organic cotton, y'know.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> The Civil Right Movement was a non violent and passive resistance movement. It was supposed to show that violence and being "animals" were not the reasons that the black population was segregated, but simply on the basis of their skin color. It showed that very, very well.
> 
> I was told as a child that even though MLKjr didn't preach violence, it "followed" him, so therefore he was causing it (the textbooks I had growing up also tried to give biblical justification for slavery, so this isn't surprising). What the books left out was that the "violence that followed" was by those trying to continue to force segregation down every bodies throats!


The Civil Rights Movement was in part a nonviolent movement. It indeed proved exactly what you say it was intended to prove about African-Americans. It also had a violent side that did not come from the *********** structure. I remember Malcolm X saying that if the white people in this country didn't accept MLK's style of seeking equal rights for African-American, it would get him instead. I also remember well that MLK was assassinated in 1968, as was Malcolm X in 1965. One of those assassinations is a good example of the *********** structure silencing a huge threat to its power, and the other is a good example of a particular black power structure silencing a threat to a corrupt leader.

I wasn't told much of anything about the Civil Rights Movement. I grew up with the post-WWII part of it right at home with my father's participation. It was the first political movement I understood well enough to be interested in. I saw some of the earliest protest on the West Coast in 1960. I remember a great deal of the events of the Civil Rights Movement including the birth of the Black Power Movement, and many of the tragedies that movement suffered. I'm one of those "people of goodwill" MLK and others spoke about when referring to their white supporters
.


> And I'm curious, if a mother was violent because of a perceived danger to her child would you consider her an "animal" until proved innocent? I happen to be a pacifist as well, but classifying someone who is violent as an animal seems to not peaceful in thoughts and intentions. Instead of classifying people who are violent as animals and judging them, I try to examine the situation and discover the root cause of the violence so it may be addressed as to prevent, or at least lessen, others following in the violence. To me it sounds like an excuse to give up on a person because it is an animal's nature to be violent.


I do think mothers who react violently are animals at the time they act. Mothers are programmed to be the ruthless protectors of their children. What are they guilty of then? This has nothing to do with giving up on anyone because we all are capable of violence. We attempt to control ourselves with outside structures and from within. We don't do a very good job most of the time.

I've given up on some people over the years because it seemed unlikely they would change. That includes some people who participate in this topic.

I am still ranting and raving. Violence? Probably. I still have to stay home until I feel the urge to rant and rave has gone away for the moment.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> The Civil Right Movement was a non violent and passive resistance movement. It was supposed to show that violence and being "animals" were not the reasons that the black population was segregated, but simply on the basis of their skin color. It showed that very, very well.
> 
> I was told as a child that even though MLKjr didn't preach violence, it "followed" him, so therefore he was causing it (the textbooks I had growing up also tried to give biblical justification for slavery, so this isn't surprising). What the books left out was that the "violence that followed" was by those trying to continue to force segregation down every bodies throats!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sure these facts will calm you down
> http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2808548/posts


Hey, LTL, today must be your day to annoy us. Yesterday was obviously Solo's. Who's it gonna be tomorrow?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. I live in New York City, not considered Politeness Central, yet there was no such behavior here, during Occupy or during the Vietnam War protests.
> 
> You realize that what you're doing is judging a large group on the basis of the limited contact you've had with a few. You know what that sounds like, I'm sure.


I don't actually mind you saying something about judging a large number of people by the acts of a few. I'm considering the acts of maybe 20,000 people in a large urban area which is a pretty small number for most demographics. I am also judging some people here on rather thin evidence, especially when you consider we only have words on a screen to tell us anything about each other.

When it comes to the protests against the illegal war in Vietnam, I was kind of at ground zero for both the early non-violent protests, which I participated in 1964 and 1965 as a high school student, and the later violent protests which I did not participate in.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Oo, so do I, and you know MINE'S the best:  knitting, crocheting, spinning, designing new knitting pojects, designing little girls costume dresses, weaving, cross stitch, sewing, (attempts at) tatting, macramé.
> 
> There may be a few more my mind forgot, lol. I alternate all of these because sometimes one way might be too much for my body but another thing not.


Is it blasphemy if I say cooking is one of the greatest crafts, even arts, we humans practice?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it blasphemy if I say cooking is one of the greatest crafts, even arts, we humans practice?


For me it's baking. Especially with yeast, which is one of those magical substances that do so much more than expected (two of the others are baking soda and cat-spit).


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Help me! Help me! I think i just scanned past a link LTL provided me for some sort of calming experience. I hope i was wrong. :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Help me! Help me! I think i just scanned past a link LTL provided me for some sort of calming experience. I hope i was wrong. :twisted:


You weren't imagining it. What you _were_ imagining was that LTL wanted to calm you. Give up that idea, and you'll be fine.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> For me it's baking. Especially with yeast, which is one of those magical substances that do so much more than expected (two of the others are baking soda and cat-spit).


Ah, the art of using yeast. I love making breads, the simpler the better, sometimes because they seem to be more of a challenge.

Cat-spit. Hmm. I think I will have to wait to consider its magical properties until I stop ROTFLMAO. Where are those cool emoticons when I need one???


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You weren't imagining it. What you _were_ imagining was that LTL wanted to calm you. Give up that idea, and you'll be fine.


I think I'm safe. I am resolved not to go back to see what LTL was offering me. I can live with the mystery.:twisted:


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This has bothered me most of the night. I don't recall much violence perpetrated by Occupy here. Sure, they annoyed a lot of Wall Street types, and they may have caused traffic to slow down, but most of the violence was on the part of police pushing them away from where they should have been allowed to assemble and taking (and destroying) .they're stuff. ..


and Lisa's equally excellent post:



VocalLisa said:


> There was very little violence in OW, and some that did occur happened because of outsiders that came in to cause trouble. Other claims of violence were invented or exaggerated by Fox News.
> 
> IMO, there's much more "violence" perpetuated against human beings by the corporations that OW were protesting about.


Occupy Wall Street and its numerous sister organizations across the U.S. and elsewhere in the world was/is an entirely benign, beneficial, self-organizing, leaderless, consensus-driven organization. Leftists -- especially consensus-driven and leaderless leftists -- are not prone to violence. Civil disobedience, yes, because that is THE accepted non-violent path to permanent social change. Violence, no.

Gandhi:
_First they ignore you;
Then they laugh at you;
*Then they fight you;*
Then you win. _

Frederick Douglass:
_Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never has and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress. _

Congressman John Lewis, who marched with Martin Luther King, Jr., could tell you what happens when you try to correct those injustices and wrongs, and make a demand for your rights. It ain't pretty. In a word, Power fights back. Hard. Too many Occupiers could echo that.

Here's who OWS was/is:



> *Occupy Protesters: Professional and Well Educated*
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/12525301
> A new study from CUNYs Joseph A. Murphy Institute for Worker Education and Labor Studies, based largely on a sample of protesters interviewed during a mass May Day rally last year, found that the majority of participants were white and well-educated (76 percent of respondents had a four-year degree). Two-thirds of Occupy protesters had professional jobs, the sociology study found, with nearly a third living in households with incomes of $100,000 or more. Meanwhile, nearly a third of the protesters had been laid off or lost a job and a similar number said they had more than $1,000 in credit card or student loan debt. A significant number of respondents were precariously or underemployed and 10 percent of respondents were unemployed and seeking work.
> 
> ...


I have many, many more links and I'm going to share some of them to show a little more about Occupy, and a lot more about government suppression (the Power fighting back).


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> LOL. I do a lot of Indian-type cooking so I can't avoid it. But I have pretty good-tasting dish rags - organic cotton, y'know.


Not to mention fiber!!

Karen N. (wh's not a cilantro fan either, but what the hey--)


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Cilantro tastes like a dish rag to me. I do not have the cilantro gene


Oh, man. Cilantro is right up there by vanilla for me. Darned near an aphrodisiac. (I said "near," mind you.)

:XD:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You weren't imagining it. What you _were_ imagining was that LTL wanted to calm you. Give up that idea, and you'll be fine.


Actually I _did_ find those figures interesting. I'm rather surprised that in a major urban city like NYC there were only two murders, three incidents of public masturbation, one count of arson, and so on. Tensions and emotions surely ran high among the protestors--it would appear to me that they were remarkably well-behaved as compared to ordinary NYC residents.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Oh, man. Cilantro is right up there by vanilla for me. Darned near an aphrodisiac. (I said "near," mind you.)
> 
> :XD:


I love it too--can't stand sage, though. Those are the two that people seem to either love or hate.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> For me it's baking. Especially with yeast, which is one of those magical substances that do so much more than expected (two of the others are baking soda and cat-spit).


Yeast? Don't get me started! I can make decent homemade bread, but delicate things like cinnamon rolls are definitely beyond me. My son has been wild to try cronuts and, as there's no cronut shop in the area, I decided to make them myself. Big mistake--they were the hardest things ever and could have doubled as charcoal briquettes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I _did_ find those figures interesting. I'm rather surprised that in a major urban city like NYC there were only two murders, three incidents of public masturbation, one count of arson, and so on. Tensions and emotions surely ran high among the protestors--it would appear to me that they were remarkably well-behaved as compared to ordinary NYC residents.


Hey, watch it! I'm an ordinary NYC resident. But those numbers really are low. There are probably more than 3 incidents of public masturbation on the subway every day. I can't guarantee the murders, because we've recently had headlines about 24-hour periods without a single murder. Their rape statistics are undoubtedly made up.

And of course there was no violence among the Tea Partygoers. They were protesting against Democrats, who responded in a civilized way. The TP violence is invisible because it involves withholding medical treatment and unemployment pay, not spraying pepper spray.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Not to mention fiber!!
> 
> Karen N. (wh's not a cilantro fan either, but what the hey--)


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I have many, many more links and I'm going to share some of them to show a little more about Occupy, and a lot more about government suppression (the Power fighting back).


Not to mention the media bias, they surely didn't cover Occupy as they did the "town meetings" that Crossroads funded.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Ah, the art of using yeast. I love making breads, the simpler the better, sometimes because they seem to be more of a challenge.
> 
> Cat-spit. Hmm. I think I will have to wait to consider its magical properties until I stop ROTFLMAO. Where are those cool emoticons when I need one???


Here's the one for rolling on floor:

If you hit quote reply, the code will show up. Just copy the entire code and paste it into your message wherever you want it. When asked whether you can guarantee it will always be available, say yes. Enjoy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Oh, man. Cilantro is right up there by vanilla for me. Darned near an aphrodisiac. (I said "near," mind you.) XD:


VERY, VERY near, especially if we're talking my favorite pork chili verde recipe. Writing the name of that recipe is making me drool... :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: And the tempurature has gone up, too... :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: And I won't even comment on what you said about the purity of the Occupy movement except this sentence which is (wait for it...) OVER. Whoopee!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the one for rolling on floor:
> 
> If you hit quote reply, the code will show up. Just copy the entire code and paste it into your message wherever you want it. When asked whether you can guarantee it will always be available, say yes. Enjoy.


Hmm...let me try.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Success!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yeast? Don't get me started! I can make decent homemade bread, but delicate things like cinnamon rolls are definitely beyond me. My son has been wild to try cronuts and, as there's no cronut shop in the area, I decided to make them myself. Big mistake--they were the hardest things ever and could have doubled as charcoal briquettes.


Charcoal is useful. Our local supermarket sells cronuts at (I think) 2 for $7. Are they worth it?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...let me try.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the one for rolling on floor:
> 
> If you hit quote reply, the code will show up. Just copy the entire code and paste it into your message wherever you want it. When asked whether you can guarantee it will always be available, say yes. Enjoy.


Thank you. It will come in handy, especially when I have to laugh at myself. A good friend of mine, now unfortunately departed, used to actually fall on the floor laughing if someone said something funny enough. It was a great sport among his close friends to work on things to say to see him fall on the fllor. Now that's showing real appreciation.

I'm gone, ladies. My new iPhone just arrived and this technological Neanderthal needs time to cozy up to it. Have a lovely evening.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thank you. It will come in handy, especially when I have to laugh at myself. A good friend of mine, now unfortunately departed, used to actually fall on the floor laughing if someone said something funny enough. It was a great sport among his close friends to work on things to say to see him fall on the fllor. Now that's showing real appreciation.
> 
> I'm gone, ladies. My new iPhone just arrived and this technological Neanderthal needs time to cozy up to it. Have a lovely evening.


Okay, everyone, time to talk about Empress Maid.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yeast? Don't get me started! I can make decent homemade bread, but delicate things like cinnamon rolls are definitely beyond me. My son has been wild to try cronuts and, as there's no cronut shop in the area, I decided to make them myself. Big mistake--they were the hardest things ever and could have doubled as charcoal briquettes.


What are cronuts? I've made cake donuts at home (oh, the sin of deep-frying) but that's as far as I've gone into making anything that could be called a donut or a donut relative.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Charcoal is useful. Our local supermarket sells cronuts at (I think) 2 for $7. Are they worth it?


I'm not sure as I've never tried a decent one. They look like deep-fried rounds of puff pasty in a donut shape--not sure if that's worth three-fifty or not, but people are sure going nuts about them.

One thing: it's wasn't worth the effort of making them myself--even if they _ had _ come out--the dough required endless rounds of rolling out, folding, buttering, and refrigeration to create all those (in my case, anyway) not-so-flaky layers.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.


Yes it was known that it was a terrorist attack with in 15 minutes. No demonstrations. Not caused by a YouTube video. The Obama's State Department and Military were not prepared for the 11th anniversary of 9/11. 4 branches of Al Qaeda were involved. There were security lapses in Libya. Training camps were in in the Benghazi area and the State Department knew it. It could have been prevented because there was poor intelligence and communication between the State Department, the President and the CIA. That the State Department and President lied about the facts.

Parsing whether it was the original Al Qaeda group or its offshoots does not change any of the facts. In my opinion that parsing is a failed attempt to change the focus of the truth. And the truth is the Obama Administration could have prevented the assassinations of 4 Americans. The State Department did not do the its job and know about the threats in the area, communicate these threats to Ambassador Stevens so that he could have made a more informed decision about his security.

And I don't care when it happened, it does matter.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> What are cronuts? I've made cake donuts at home (oh, the sin of deep-frying) but that's as far as I've gone into making anything that could be called a donut or a donut relative.


It's a cross between a donut and croissant: round with a hole in the middle and deep-fried, but with lots of flaky layers as with puff pastry. My son called my attention to them, and they're a big deal it seems in places like LA and SF. The next time we're in either place I'm definitely going to find a shop and try some.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thank you. It will come in handy, especially when I have to laugh at myself. A good friend of mine, now unfortunately departed, used to actually fall on the floor laughing if someone said something funny enough. It was a great sport among his close friends to work on things to say to see him fall on the fllor. Now that's showing real appreciation.
> 
> I'm gone, ladies. My new iPhone just arrived and this technological Neanderthal needs time to cozy up to it. Have a lovely evening.


Congrats and good luck!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:

1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.

Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.
> 
> Yes it was known that it was a terrorist attack with in 15 minutes. No demonstrations. Not caused by a YouTube video. The Obama's State Department and Military were not prepared for the 11th anniversary of 9/11. 4 branches of Al Qaeda were involved. There were security lapses in Libya. Training camps were in in the Benghazi area and the State Department knew it. It could have been prevented because there was poor intelligence and communication between the State Department, the President and the CIA. That the State Department and President lied about the facts.
> 
> ...


*Yawn*


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure as I've never tried a decent one. They look like deep-fried rounds of puff pasty in a donut shape--not sure if that's worth three-fifty or not, but people are sure going nuts about them.
> 
> One thing: it's wasn't worth the effort of making them myself--even if they _ had _ come out--the dough required endless rounds of rolling out, folding, buttering, and refrigeration to create all those (in my case, anyway) not-so-flaky layers.


Sounds like the start of croissants. So they're donuts made from croissant dough? This is almost as bad as Paula Deen's hamburger between two donuts.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:
> 
> 1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.
> 
> Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


What war on women?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Sounds like the start of croissants. So they're donuts made from croissant dough?


Seems like it--in fact, I saw a recipe for "the easiest cronuts ever!" that recommended using canned Pillsbury croissant dough.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> What war on women?


How can they trust the scandalous IRS to be unfair to women when they audit them to determine whether actual rape had occurred?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Seems like it--in fact, I saw a recipe for "the easiest cronuts ever!" that recommended using canned Pillsbury croissant dough.


They must be quite a delicacy.

Well, if you'd like me to mail you a couple, send me a PM.

:lol: :lol:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:
> 
> 1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.
> 
> Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


Disgusting. Still, with the anniversary of Roe vs. Wade coming up next week I'm not surprised that those GOP yoyos are choosing to mark with equally lamebrained bits of legislation.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

*AGENTS PROVOCATEURS*
_An agent provocateur (French for "inciting agent" ) is an undercover agent who acts to entice another person to commit an illegal or rash act or falsely implicate them in partaking in an illegal act. An agent provocateur may be employed by the police or other entity to discredit or harm another group (e.g., peaceful protest or demonstration) by provoking them to commit an act - thus, undermining the protest or demonstration as whole. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur _

*How to Identify an Agent Provocateur* http://takethesquare.net/2011/08/14/how-to-identify-an-agent-provocateur/
_As governments around the world, including our own, face more and more popular resistance, were witnessing a revival of the use of agent provocateurs. An agent provocateur is the well-used tactic of using undercover military or police to join a dissenting group or protest in order to provoke others in the group to carry out illegal actions and violence. The goal is to discredit the group from the inside. Sometimes the group gets discredited with those outside. Other times the group is enticed into internal divisions and collapses.

...In decades past in the U.S., the FBI was exposed for using agent provocateurs to pose as members of right wing (???) groups and the Black Panthers. This was the infamous COINTELPRO program that operated from the 1950s into the 1970s. It was thought to have been shut down in the early 1970s, but another version of it came to light during the Reagan years._

Vietnam era protesters will tell you that they learned that anyone in their group advocating violence or other illegal actions was likely undercover FBI. Times have changed; tactics haven't. Nowadays, they don't just advocate, they go do the deeds themselves if they have to.

It's an incredibly effective tactic. It:
* discredits the movement
* turns law-abiding, peace-loving citizens against the movement even if they agree with the movement's agenda
* gives the police the opportunity and excuse to "strike back" with as much brutality as they like, arresting people helter skelter
* the violent repression against the peaceful protesters (now discredited as "violent" themselves even when they aren't) discourages other would-be protesters from participating in any upcoming protests and 
* discourages others from joining the movement

And, as pointed out in the 2nd article above, their efforts can breed tremendous internal divisions and disharmony which can permanently tear the organization apart. Black Panthers were one such targeted organization.

Here are just a few links -- a few on Occupy, and a few on the G20 protests, one on the DNC (video proved this one, btw).

Oh -- and make a note of this: The Patriot Act (the newer version??), I think it was, gives law enforcement the ability to charge otherwise peaceful protesters as DOMESTIC TERRORISTS which is great because domestic terrorism carries one HELL of a criminal penalty that can put troublemakes like peaceful protesters in prison for a very, very long time. Add the all-seeing eyes of the NSA, and we now have entered -- voila! A Totalitarian Police State. Yes, not only CAN it happen here, it already has. We mostly have the veneer of a functioning democracy. But all that's a subject for another post, and maybe a completely different forum. Mark my words, though. (Thoughtful readers might like to see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism )

23:25 10/9/2011
Conservative Magazine Brags of its Agent Provacateur's Role in Provoking Police Action in D.C.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2084473
link http://spectator.org/archives/2011/10/08/standoff-in-dc/print
and http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/08/1024352/-Conservative-Magazine-Brags-of-its-Agent-Provacateurs-Role-in-Provoking-Police-Action-in-DC-?via=siderec

23:14 11/12/2011
Who's Behind the Mayhem at the Occupy Oakland Protests?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x637769
link http://www.alternet.org/occupywallst/153053/who%27s_behind_the_mayhem_at_the_occupy_oakland_protests

17:50 10/19/2011
Cop disguised as a protester was the loudest person at Citibank.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2145578
LINK http://www.observer.com/2011/10/citibank-protester-talks-about-undercover-infiltration-in-occupy-wall-street

22:14 6/29/2010
EXPOSED! - G20 Police in Black Bloc Anarchist Gear @ 0:45 - Toronto 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x480166#480169
lINK: 




CBC: Police accused of displaying fake G20 weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8667363
Link: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/06/30/g20-weapons.html

Cops can be so dumb. Now that Toronto police protester plants have been revealed, the question is...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8655385
lINK: 




Is this an agent provocateur being removed from the scene at G20?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6630298
Link: 



and: http://rawstory.com/2009/09/video-appears-to-show-us-troops-kidnapping-protester

19:19 11/11/2008
Were Agents Provocateur Used in Denver at the DNC?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4440044
link; http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_10920817

BTW, the DNC is the "Democratic National Committee," which is the Democratic Party national organization. Then there are state chapters. Republicans = RNC.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I _did_ find those figures interesting. I'm rather surprised that in a major urban city like NYC there were only two murders, three incidents of public masturbation, one count of arson, and so on. Tensions and emotions surely ran high among the protestors--it would appear to me that they were remarkably well-behaved as compared to ordinary NYC residents.


Thank you for reminding me of something I was going to add: The cops in NYC would routinely round up homeless and drop them off at Zucotti Park during the Occupy period. Many of them mentally ill, so it was a very meanspirited and potentially dangerous thing to do.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:
> 
> 1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.
> 
> Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


aaargh. Don't you feel like you could just SWIM in the punitive nature of these efforts?

Rush Limbaugh said something very revealing in his Sandra Flue rants -- something I have known was there for any and all who are trying to deny women sovereingty over their own bodies, but it was gratifying to see it explicitly stated. He was exercised that young women like Fluke who wanted their birth control covered were wanting "sex *without repercussions...*"

Can't have that. Women do NOT have the right to be free and equal. No repercussionless sex for you, toots.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Occupy continues to do very good work -- they were heavily involved in helping clean up post Sandy, and they have organized a magnificent Rolling Jubliee which buys up consumer debt for pennies on the dollar and then pays it off, free for nothin'.

All of that is really great and makes my heart sing, but I still hate to see Occupy devolve into merely a charitable organization. Even so, at least they are not dead. They are still doing great work that needs to be done and I applaud them for that.

Here's a small sampling:

20:41 12/27/2013
Homeless Couple Gets A Home On Christmas Eve, Thanks To Innovative Occupy Group http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024235309
Thanks for concrete actions that help people. More than we can hope from most people,
http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2013/12/27/3104771/occupy-madison-homeless/

18:26 12/10/2013
Student Receives Settlement from NYPD (Occupy Wall Street Beating Suit to Cost City $82,000)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014668298
LINK http://www.newschoolfreepress.com/2013/12/10/new-school-student-receives-settlement-from-nypd/

19:41 12/9/2013
San Diego Occupy Movement Helps Homeless as Temperatures Fall http://www.democraticunderground.com/12529203
http://sandiegofreepress.org/2013/12/san-diego-occupy-movement-vets-for-peace-reach-out-to-help-homeless-as-temperatures-fall/

Occupy helped turn Central Florida blue in 2012 -- but...don't tell anyone! http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023685945

19:42 9/19/2013
Memo To Washington: The Occupy Movement Lives http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023696751
http://www.nationofchange.org/memo-washington-occupy-movement-lives-1379598826
Two days ago, September 17, marked the second anniversary of the Occupy movement. When that movement is mentioned at all in Washington, which is rarely, the tone is dismissive. It didnt have coherent goals, someone may say. The movement needed an electoral strategy, someone else will add. No wonder it didnt last.
Thats getting it backwards. The Occupy movement wasnt the foundation for change; it was the reflection of a deeper desire for it. It was the effect, not the cause, and it wont disappear because of the wishful thinking of a few.
Occupy was the product of a deep-seated yearning for economic justice, equality of opportunity, and a return to the kind of economy that lifted people out of poverty and spawned a large and prosperous middle class. It was the fruit of widespread and intense anger at Wall Street and corporate America, and against those in the political class who helped them hijack the economy.
If you dont believe that last part, just ask Larry Summers. MUCH MORE

14:48 8/26/2013
Look at you now! Look how strong we are! V
For the 99%: The Occupy Movement Documented
http://www.shareable.net/blog/99-the-occupy-wall-street-collaborative-film
As we come up on the two-year anniversary of Occupy Wall Street', a number of documentaries serve to reconnect us to the energy and passion that sparked the movement. From the encampments to the arrests, the movement's voices have been captured and collected in films with varying focuses. Here's a rundown:
Occupy: The Movie 




14:05 8/22/2013
Occupy Homes MN Helps Defend Two Minneapolis Families From Foreclosure (see Video) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023510925
http://www.theuptake.org/2013/08/21/occupy-homes-helps-defend-two-minneapolis-families-from-foreclosure/

10:59 8/12/2013
The People's Garden (Greeley Occupy with Al Frente de Lucha) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023442729
http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-Peoples-Garden/620639324617347?hc_location=stream

20:17 7/9/2013
Occupy Homes MN is once again demanding the Sheriff not evict the homeowners. 7/11 at 11:30am. 
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023205302
LINK http://www.facebook.com/events/216521348497098/

21:40 5/21/2013
OCCUPY OKC - Occupy OKC to help with tornado ( Also Occupy Norman) http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022880271
https://www.wepay.com/donations/occupy-ok-tornado-relief-fund_1

23:01 4/11/2013
Occupy Medical-What free universal health care looks like. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12527055
http://www.eugeneweekly.com/20130411/lead-story/occupy-medical

20:26 3/7/2013
Occupy Wall Street Has Raised Enough Money To Abolish $11,236,570 Of Personal Debt http://www.democraticunderground.com/12526187
Occupy Wall Street Has Raised Enough Money To Abolish $11,236,570 Of Personal Debt http://shar.es/jTzf7 via @sharethis
Retweeted by OccupyIreland
http://occupyamerica.crooksandliars.com/diane-sweet/occupy-wall-street-has-raised-enough

19:00 3/1/2013
Occupy Movement Files Lawsuit Against Every Federal Regulator of Wall Street http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022444086
Cross-posted from Occupy Underground.) 
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2013/02/occupy-movement-files-lawsuit-against-every-federal-regulator-of-wall-street/

15:58 12/28/2012
Occupy group is on verge of buying office building for housing for homeless http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084204
link http://www.thedailypage.com/isthmus/article.php?article=38612


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They must be quite a delicacy.
> 
> Well, if you'd like me to mail you a couple, send me a PM.
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Heehee! Thanks for the offer!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> aaargh. Don't you feel like you could just SWIM in the punitive nature of these efforts?
> 
> Rush Limbaugh said something very revealing in his Sandra Flue rants -- something I have known was there for any and all who are trying to deny women sovereingty over their own bodies, but it was gratifying to see it explicitly stated. He was exercised that young women like Fluke who wanted their birth control covered were wanting "sex *without repercussions...*"
> 
> Can't have that. Women do NOT have the right to be free and equal. No repercussionless sex for you, toots.


Wow! that's twisted conservative reasoning on their parts. Imagine equating a newborn with some kind of punishment!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> aaargh. Don't you feel like you could just SWIM in the punitive nature of these efforts?
> 
> Rush Limbaugh said something very revealing in his Sandra Flue rants -- something I have known was there for any and all who are trying to deny women sovereingty over their own bodies, but it was gratifying to see it explicitly stated. He was exercised that young women like Fluke who wanted their birth control covered were wanting "sex *without repercussions...*"
> 
> Can't have that. Women do NOT have the right to be free and equal. No repercussionless sex for you, toots.


...said the man who advocated for prison sentences for drug users who weren't him.

He has no children, has he? I know he's been married a couple of times. I wonder what kinds of repercussions his wives had to endure.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ...said the man who advocated for prison sentences for drug users who weren't him.
> 
> He has no children, has he? I know he's been married a couple of times. I wonder what kinds of repercussions his wives had to endure.


No, he has no children. But word is, he _likes_ children, and not in a good way. On one return from the Dominican Republic where child prostitution is common, he was caught in customs with quite a bit of viagra in a bottle with someone else's name on it. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rush-limbaugh-detained-with-viagra/
and another: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/rush-limbaughs-dominican-stag-party

He also apparently likes Costa Rica, also renowned for its child sex trafficking, so much he considered moving there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> No, he has no children. But word is, he _likes_ children, and not in a good way. On one return from the Dominican Republic where child prostitution is common, he was caught in customs with quite a bit of viagra in a bottle with someone else's name on it. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rush-limbaugh-detained-with-viagra/
> and another: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/rush-limbaughs-dominican-stag-party
> 
> He also apparently likes Costa Rica, also renowned for its child sex trafficking, so much he considered moving there.


There went my entire dinner.

I remember the viagra story. Who are the people who listen to him and believe everything he says? No low-information voter could be that low.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.
> 
> Yes it was known that it was a terrorist attack with in 15 minutes. No demonstrations. Not caused by a YouTube video. The Obama's State Department and Military were not prepared for the 11th anniversary of 9/11. 4 branches of Al Qaeda were involved. There were security lapses in Libya. Training camps were in in the Benghazi area and the State Department knew it. It could have been prevented because there was poor intelligence and communication between the State Department, the President and the CIA. That the State Department and President lied about the facts.
> 
> ...


Don't see any proof. Just an opinion from you. So, I will also go with *Yawn*


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Don't see any proof. Just an opinion from you. So, I will also go with *Yawn*


http://www.bing.com/search?q=benghazi+report&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=ASU2JS

Try this, you can pick from over 8 different news sources.

Yawn, that took at least 3 seconds to find.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.bing.com/search?q=benghazi+report&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=ASU2JS
> 
> Try this, you can pick from over 8 different news sources.
> 
> Yawn, that took at least 3 seconds to find.


*Yawn* indeed--I guess that means you snoozed through the part about the Senate Intelligence Committee laying some of the blame for what happened on Stevens himself.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it blasphemy if I say cooking is one of the greatest crafts, even arts, we humans practice?


Well I wouldn't say THE greatest art, but definately one of the best


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> For me it's baking. Especially with yeast, which is one of those magical substances that do so much more than expected (two of the others are baking soda and cat-spit).


Cat-spit? What magical properties does that have? Should I be harvesting spit from our five cats now? (ugh, that mental image will stay for a while)


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I think I'm safe. I am resolved not to go back to see what LTL was offering me. I can live with the mystery.:twisted:


I made the mistake of looking :roll:


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.
> 
> Yes it was known that it was a terrorist attack with in 15 minutes. No demonstrations. Not caused by a YouTube video. The Obama's State Department and Military were not prepared for the 11th anniversary of 9/11. 4 branches of Al Qaeda were involved. There were security lapses in Libya. Training camps were in in the Benghazi area and the State Department knew it. It could have been prevented because there was poor intelligence and communication between the State Department, the President and the CIA. That the State Department and President lied about the facts.
> 
> ...


I think your link or reference was mistakenly left out. It would be helpful for those of us who like to read the original Democratic statement regarding this.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Cat-spit? What magical properties does that have? Should I be harvesting spit from our five cats now? (ugh, that mental image will stay for a while)


Other than being a great cleaner for cereal bowls?

We used to have a very frilly maidenhair fern, but through neglect it came close to death. At about the same time, we got our first cat. He would lick the fern and chew on the naked stems, and within a couple of weeks it perked up and once again looked like Shirley Temple. I'm certain it was Tintin's tongue that cured the fern.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:
> 
> 1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.
> 
> Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


Oh Lordy! How will they want to prove a woman is raped? Will they require a statement, the pressing of charges, or an actual conviction? Women who are raped are well known not to report it... I almost didn't. And then when they press charges, some times they are told they can charge for "rape". In my case it was "sexual misconduct". I was told that unless violence was involved, and could be proven you stand a zero change of a conviction. The detective even told me that there were cases of the woman having bruises all over but it still couldn't be "proven" it was violent. Basically you need a video. So would it be only cases of rape or would sexual misconduct apply too? Yeah, getting investigators to decide this would be a great use of money, because our veterans don't need more support or care. REALLY?!

And more kids = more money for the economy only works if (1) they survive childhood without being starved to death from lack of food and (2) there are actual jobs for them at 16 or 18. Remind me again, how many people are out of work already?


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> aaargh. Don't you feel like you could just SWIM in the punitive nature of these efforts?
> 
> Rush Limbaugh said something very revealing in his Sandra Flue rants -- something I have known was there for any and all who are trying to deny women sovereingty over their own bodies, but it was gratifying to see it explicitly stated. He was exercised that young women like Fluke who wanted their birth control covered were wanting "sex *without repercussions...*"
> 
> Can't have that. Women do NOT have the right to be free and equal. No repercussionless sex for you, toots.


Oh yes, "sex without repercussions" is only for the men who can walk away and deny their children. Can't have women being equal to men there! They might get those fancy ideas that sex can be enjoyable, they can say no to sex and the man stops, and worse get they are EQUAL to men! Nope, can't have that at all. :roll:


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Other than being a great cleaner for cereal bowls?
> 
> We used to have a very frilly maidenhair fern, but through neglect it came close to death. At about the same time, we got our first cat. He would lick the fern and chew on the naked stems, and within a couple of weeks it perked up and once again looked like Shirley Temple. I'm certain it was Tintin's tongue that cured the fern.


Our cats just eat the plants. I have tried everything, I even put them in wire cages! The one has a fetish for any leaf. If I have cut flowers he slowly steals them one by one. We do have one plant, and African Violet, that has survived so far.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ...said the man who advocated for prison sentences for drug users who weren't him.
> 
> He has no children, has he? I know he's been married a couple of times. I wonder what kinds of repercussions his wives had to endure.


Pass the brain bleach, please...

Karen N.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Benghazi.

I've kept quiet about this because the information is a little out there, and because there's not a LOT of documentation on it, and because I'm rather bored about it all anyway. If there were any "there" to it, all the other news outlets beyond Fox would've been hawking it too, and that's not happened.

But 'm sick and tired of the subject even being raised AS IF there's something to it. There's not. For one thing, where was all the Republican outrage over George W. Bush's 13 embassy bombings?? *13 Benghazis That Occurred on Bush's Watch Without a Peep from Fox News * http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-cesca/13-benghazis-that-occurre_b_3246847.html

And the other thing that's annoying about this latest tired rendition is that OF COURSE it could have been prevented. Just don't have these or any people there. Or if Congress hadn't slashed funds for embassy security everywhere. Or don't do those missions. Etc., etc.

And finally, this is also what that article said: _The report found no evidence of the kind of political coverup that Republicans have long alleged. Much of it recounted now-familiar facts about deteriorating security conditions ... etc. _

Basically, here's what was going down. Benghazi is too small a podunk little place to have a REAL diplomatic mission, but it did have a CIA outpost and Stephens himself was part of that and that CIA unit was involved in some of the type of activities the CIA prefers not to have everybody and her sister know about (arms and stuff to Syria, probably). If you remember, it was the CIA who vetted Rice's remarks at the U.N. It was the CIA that weighed in and said, "We didn't ask for help," and so forth and so on.

So how CLEVER of Chairman Issa, who is out for Obama blood -- preferably during impeachment proceedings -- come hell or high water, to get all these people to testify at his hearings KNOWING FULL WELL that those who knew couldn't talk, and those who didn't know wouldn't have much to say either. No wonder Hillary got exasperated with him and the whole melodrama.

Here are a few links. At LEAST look at the first item. I don't expect anyone to read any of these big collections of links, but the headlines alone are useful, as a rule.



> *CIA 'running arms smuggling team in Benghazi when consulate was attacked'* http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023392394
> Up to 35 CIA operatives were working in the city during the attack last September on the US consulate that resulted in the death of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans, according to CNN.
> The circumstances of the attack are a subject of deep division in the US with some Congressional leaders pressing for a wide-ranging investigation into suspicions that the government has withheld details of its activities in the Libyan city.
> The television network said that a CIA team was working in an annex near the consulate on a project to supply missiles from Libyan armouries to Syrian rebels. At least they weren't running drugs this time.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Pass the brain bleach, please...
> 
> Karen N.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I saw it too. Now that's scary.

Ps I think I'm a pacifist with a violence gene. Look out!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Help me! Help me! I think i just scanned past a link LTL provided me for some sort of calming experience. I hope i was wrong. :twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Benghazi.
> 
> I've kept quiet about this because the information is a little out there, and because there's not a LOT of documentation on it, and because I'm rather bored about it all anyway. If there were any "there" to it, all the other news outlets beyond Fox would've been hawking it too, and that's not happened.
> 
> ...


Boy, Knitry, am I glad you're around to keep things straight. It was a horrible situation, but then it became a slogan, for political reasons. The proof of that is that the pig Issa was involved. The last thing he wants is the truth. I guess Maddow will have something to say tonight. I watch her podcast, so I'll get it soon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

blah blah blah



lovethelake said:


> What a shocker, almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true. And this report came from Democrats.
> 
> Yes it was known that it was a terrorist attack with in 15 minutes. No demonstrations. Not caused by a YouTube video. The Obama's State Department and Military were not prepared for the 11th anniversary of 9/11. 4 branches of Al Qaeda were involved. There were security lapses in Libya. Training camps were in in the Benghazi area and the State Department knew it. It could have been prevented because there was poor intelligence and communication between the State Department, the President and the CIA. That the State Department and President lied about the facts.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Women who are raped are well known not to report it... I almost didn't. And then when they press charges, some times they are told they can charge for "rape". In my case it was "sexual misconduct". I was told that unless violence was involved, and could be proven you stand a zero change of a conviction. The detective even told me that there were cases of the woman having bruises all over but it still couldn't be "proven" it was violent. Basically you need a video. So would it be only cases of rape or would sexual misconduct apply too? Yeah, getting investigators to decide this would be a great use of money, because our veterans don't need more support or care. REALLY?!


Oh Good Grief, I'm SO sorry that happened to you. How terrible, and it sounds like what you went through in reporting it was, just like so many other women, yet another total nightmare.

I'm so sick of all this rampant misogyny in our culture, especially all the violence against women.

Hugs to you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you sure violence isn't the answer?



Poor Purl said:


> I feel as though I'm in some nightmarish dreamland:
> 
> 1. A panel of House Republicans, all of which are men, is advancing a bill that contains far-reaching restrictions on abortion access. The bill, the so-called Rape Audit, H.R. 7, aims to limit access to abortion by making it much more difficult for women to purchase private insurance that covers abortion (as most private plans currently do) with their own money. (Similar laws were passed by seven states last year.) *In addition to increasing taxes on women and small businesses, it would also empower the IRS to conduct audits of rape survivors to ensure theyre not merely pretending to be raped.* Pro-choice legislators and advocates have been pushing back against this assault, including a group of Democratic congresswomen who sternly told the GOP to stop wasting taxpayers time and dollars waging attacks on womens constitutionally protected right to make informed health care decisions about their own bodies.
> 
> Rep. Bob Goodlatte (R-VA), who chairs the Judiciary Committee, claimed *the bill is actually a jobs plan because denying women access to abortions will make them have more children, who will in turn help grow the economy.* Another leading anti-abortion legislator, Rep. Trent Franks (R-AZ), blocked a Democratic effort to amend the bill with legislation that cracks down on workplace discrimination against pregnant women by claiming that *abortion access has nothing do with pregnant women.*(Center for American Progress; emphasis added.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh that's a good idea. I say we let 'em have it.



Janet Cooke said:


> What war on women?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, so cool Purlie Mae!



Poor Purl said:


> Nope.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Knitry said:


> No, he has no children. But word is, he _likes_ children, and not in a good way. On one return from the Dominican Republic where child prostitution is common, he was caught in customs with quite a bit of viagra in a bottle with someone else's name on it. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rush-limbaugh-detained-with-viagra/
> and another: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/rush-limbaughs-dominican-stag-party
> 
> He also apparently likes Costa Rica, also renowned for its child sex trafficking, so much he considered moving there.


I was just about to post that.

Yup, it's a little disconcerting that he was caught with the Viagra (with someone else's name on the prescription) in the child sex trafficking. capital of the world.

Quite frankly, the guy is so obviously creepy. _Regardless of his political ideology_, I don't see how _anyone_ can look and this guy and not see that there's something not right with him.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's really too absurd to consider.



Poor Purl said:


> How can they trust the scandalous IRS to be unfair to women when they audit them to determine whether actual rape had occurred?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> aaargh. Don't you feel like you could just SWIM in the punitive nature of these efforts?
> 
> Rush Limbaugh said something very revealing in his Sandra Flue rants -- something I have known was there for any and all who are trying to deny women sovereingty over their own bodies, but it was gratifying to see it explicitly stated. He was exercised that young women like Fluke who wanted their birth control covered were wanting "sex *without repercussions...*"
> 
> Can't have that. Women do NOT have the right to be free and equal. No repercussionless sex for you, toots.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Don't you DARE enjoy it either.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not feeling well. Can't someone please help this man out of my misery?



Knitry said:


> No, he has no children. But word is, he _likes_ children, and not in a good way. On one return from the Dominican Republic where child prostitution is common, he was caught in customs with quite a bit of viagra in a bottle with someone else's name on it. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/rush-limbaugh-detained-with-viagra/
> and another: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/rush-limbaughs-dominican-stag-party
> 
> He also apparently likes Costa Rica, also renowned for its child sex trafficking, so much he considered moving there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You'd have to care to waste 3 seconds on it. Yawn.



lovethelake said:


> http://www.bing.com/search?q=benghazi+report&form=IE10TR&src=IE10TR&pc=ASU2JS
> 
> Try this, you can pick from over 8 different news sources.
> 
> Yawn, that took at least 3 seconds to find.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That'll teach you. I fell for it once upon a time in the interest of fairness. Nevermore.



Lkholcomb said:


> I made the mistake of looking :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Oh yes, "sex without repercussions" is only for the men who can walk away and deny their children. Can't have women being equal to men there! They might get those fancy ideas that sex can be enjoyable, they can say no to sex and the man stops, and worse get they are EQUAL to men! Nope, can't have that at all. :roll:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Boy, Knitry, am I glad you're around to keep things straight. It was a horrible situation, but then it became a slogan, for political reasons. The proof of that is that the pig Issa was involved. The last thing he wants is the truth. I guess Maddow will have something to say tonight. I watch her podcast, so I'll get it soon.


Yeah, that paragon of virtue, the alleged car thief /suspected arsonist Issa. http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/issa-was-accused-car-theft-misstating-army-record-8134 and http://www.nndb.com/people/294/000028210/

Is her podcast a rebroadcast of her show, or something different?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Benghazi.
> 
> I've kept quiet about this because the information is a little out there, and because there's not a LOT of documentation on it, and because I'm rather bored about it all anyway. If there were any "there" to it, all the other news outlets beyond Fox would've been hawking it too, and that's not happened.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Are you sure violence isn't the answer?


Usually I think the mentally ill should be treated gently, but not with these RWNs. Violence might be a good thing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're on the same page.



Poor Purl said:


> Usually I think the mentally ill should be treated gently, but not with these RWNs. Violence might be a good thing.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm not feeling well. Can't someone please help this man out of my misery?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> blah blah blah


Note the "almost" in "almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true." There's a lot of leeway in that word.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yeah, that paragon of virtue, the alleged car thief /suspected arsonist Issa. http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/issa-was-accused-car-theft-misstating-army-record-8134 and http://www.nndb.com/people/294/000028210/
> 
> Is her podcast a rebroadcast of her show, or something different?


It's the show with commercials removed.

Issa is the voice behind those car alarms that shout things like "Step away from the car." Must have gotten the idea when he was stealing them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How can they trust the scandalous IRS to be unfair to women when they audit them to determine whether actual rape had occurred?


The same way we can always count on the FBI to protect US citizens. 
Yesterday, today, tomorrow...

http://portside.org/2014-01-07/four-points-about-1971-fbi-break


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Don't you DARE enjoy it either.


Well, unless it's rape, according to Republican Clayton Williams who said that "_If it's inevitable,_" women should, "_just relax and enjoy it_"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The same way we can always count on the FBI to protect US citizens.
> Yesterday, today, tomorrow...
> 
> http://portside.org/2014-01-07/four-points-about-1971-fbi-break


The current New Yorker has a piece on this, too. http://www.newyorker.com/talk/comment/2014/01/20/140120taco_talk_talbot


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Knitry said:


> Benghazi.
> 
> I've kept quiet about this because the information is a little out there, and because there's not a LOT of documentation on it, and because I'm rather bored about it all anyway. If there were any "there" to it, all the other news outlets beyond Fox would've been hawking it too, and that's not happened.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, unless it's rape, according to Republican Clayton Williams who said that "_If it's inevitable,_" women should, "_just relax and enjoy it_"


Great joke. If I hit him on the head with a hammer, he should just relax and enjoy it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


>


I love this one. You've totally corrupted me. I used to look down my nose at emoticons.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I love this one. You've totally corrupted me. I used to look down my nose at emoticons.


How can I get those emoticans Purl? You can PM me if you wish.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, unless it's rape, according to Republican Clayton Williams who said that "_If it's inevitable,_" women should, "_just relax and enjoy it_"


He should have been slapped upside the head.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Just a little test. How good are you all at math? I have a mental block when it comes to math, (Those of you who hate me, don't bother with the insults), so me finding the answer was going to take more time than I'm willing to put into it.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He should have been slapped upside the head.


I saw that.....Seems to me Clayton Williams could use a Bobbitt.... :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I came up with 56.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I saw that.....Seems to me he could use a Bobbitt.... :XD:


Slap him around with that!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

You'll find the answer here.

http://wiki.answers.com/.../What_is_7_plus_7_divided_by_7...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Slap him around with that!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :thumbup: :lol: :XD:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Benghazi.
> 
> I've kept quiet about this because the information is a little out there, and because there's not a LOT of documentation on it, and because I'm rather bored about it all anyway. If there were any "there" to it, all the other news outlets beyond Fox would've been hawking it too, and that's not happened.
> 
> ...


Thanks for doing the hard work... :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Thanks for doing the hard work... :thumbup:


And let's not forget that when more security was suggested for that compound, Stevens turned it down.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Well, I post this with some hesitancy, because I really hope I'm overreacting. But -- you never know about such things. If nothing else, this is something everyone should know about and take steps to try to change if possible, so I'm going to go ahead and post it. And then I'm going to bed. I've had enough linkie-poo tonight.



Poor Purl said:


> Usually I think the mentally ill should be treated gently, but not with these RWNs. Violence might be a good thing.


Ya know, I KNOW you and DameMary are joking. I know you're incapable of violence, _really._

But I really feel the need to warn both of you -- and indeed everyone -- not to joke. You're going to have to pretend you're at the airport where you can't joke about the kind of stuff they're looking for. The whole world is now equivalent to the airport.

Despite the government's lies on the subject, ALL -- absolutely all -- of our communications are being scooped up and stored by the NSA, its contractors and/or other agencies. AND/OR the websites themselves (Google, Facebook, others) either give or perhaps sell info to the U.S. Govt.

Not only that, but we have a gazillion government contractors involved in national security -- and they don't have Constitutional constraints! So our government gets THEM to do a lot of surveillance that the government can't, legally, and then lets them use it on our behalf or sell it to them.

The breadth and reach of the surveillance against U.S. citizens and residents and indeed the whole world is literally mind-numbing in its totality.

Here are just a few (somewhat random) facts that I'm always afraid will make me sound like a whacko but which are totally true (and yes, you bet I have links!) --

* Your phone can be used to listen to you and the room you're in _even when it's not on!_. Only removing the battery protects you from being snooped on. And even if your phone is 9 or 10 years old it may have this capability.
* All your whereabouts are tracked by your phone, whether it's on or of. 
* Your new high tech TVs can watch back, as can your computer too. 
* Phone call metadata is saved -- the number (who) you called and how long the call lasts -- but Obama beams when he proudly reassures us that they're not LISTENING to you, just saving the metadata. Well, here's how that works:


> -They know you rang a phone sex service at 2:24 am and spoke for 18 minutes. But they don't know what you talked about.
> -They know you called the suicide prevention hotline from the Golden Gate Bridge. But the topic of the call remains a secret.
> -They know you spoke with an HIV testing service, then your doctor, then your health insurance company in the same hour. But they don't know what was discussed.
> -They know you received a call from the local NRA office while it was having a campaign against gun legislation, and then called your senators and congressional representatives immediately after. But the content of those calls remains safe from government intrusion.
> ...


* Local Law Enforcement organizations are getting in on the act too -- they're collecting facial images, and photos of your cars with license plates and recording where you go and storing all that in databases -- not just local databases but nation-wide databases because basically ALL the various agencies at all levels are sharing data.

* They're also collecting your DNA when they can get away with it -- traffic stops with "voluntary" cheek swabs, for example.

* Drones can be as small as insects and those probably a little larger than that can hover at 10,000 feet and carry cameras so sensitive they can take photos of a card lying on the ground. We're about to get drones everywhere, tons of them. And it's been declared legal and Constitutional for a helicopter to hover over your backyard and spy on you, so why would drones you can't even see be different??

And there's so much more, but the point is: they use powerful algorithms to search through communications for certain keywords. I do NOT think KP is or could be a target. BUT, if you ever get crosswise of the law -- or know someone who s (and that's not totally impossible, even for the best behaved of us), they can crawl through all your online stuff and find things they can use against you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

So I guess slapping Clayton upside the head with a "Bobbit" could put me on the list? Uh oh


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Great joke. If I hit him on the head with a hammer, he should just relax and enjoy it.


I would like to convince/coerce him into the "relax and enjoy" mode for insertion of those lower lip gauges. Have you seen them?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I came up with 56.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Just a little test. How good are you all at math? I have a mental block when it comes to math, (Those of you who hate me, don't bother with the insults), so me finding the answer was going to take more time than I'm willing to put into it.


I'm good at math, but this isn't math. It's a test to see whether you know which signs have priority over which others. Let's see whether I can do this with clarity (and a few parentheses). Also, "My Dear Aunt Sally" is a mnemonic: My=Multiplication, Dear=Division, Aunt=Addition, Sally=Subtraction; this gives the order of operations - mult., div., add., subt.

The string given is 7+7÷7+7×7-7, or 7+(7÷7)+(7×7)-7, since division and multiplication come first.

7÷7=1 and 7×7=49. So the string becomes 7+1+49-7, and I bet even you can finish this. If not, someone else will come up with it, I'm sure. In fact, someone probably already has.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He should have been slapped upside the head.


...with a hammer.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I couldn't resist this little bit of new (to me) data. Please note that it was published in 2012.

http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html

Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice
Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer | January 26, 2012 10:29am ET - See more at: http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html#sthash.hQfALyRA.dpuf

There's no gentle way to put it: People who give in to racism and prejudice may simply be dumb, according to a new study that is bound to stir public controversy.

The research finds that children with low intelligence are more likely to hold prejudiced attitudes as adults. These findings point to a vicious cycle, according to lead researcher Gordon Hodson, a psychologist at Brock University in Ontario. Low-intelligence adults tend to gravitate toward socially conservative ideologies, the study found. Those ideologies, in turn, stress hierarchy and resistance to change, attitudes that can contribute to prejudice, Hodson wrote in an email to LiveScience.

"Prejudice is extremely complex and multifaceted, making it critical that any factors contributing to bias are uncovered and understood," he said.
Controversy ahead

The findings combine three hot-button topics.

"They've pulled off the trifecta of controversial topics," said Brian Nosek, a social and cognitive psychologist at the University of Virginia who was not involved in the study. "When one selects intelligence, political ideology and racism and looks at any of the relationships between those three variables, it's bound to upset somebody."

Polling data and social and political science research do show that prejudice is more common in those who hold right-wing ideals that those of other political persuasions, Nosek told LiveScience. [7 Thoughts That Are Bad For You]

"The unique contribution here is trying to make some progress on the most challenging aspect of this," Nosek said, referring to the new study. "It's not that a relationship like that exists, but why it exists."

Brains and bias

Earlier studies have found links between low levels of education and higher levels of prejudice, Hodson said, so studying intelligence seemed a logical next step. The researchers turned to two studies of citizens in the United Kingdom, one that has followed babies since their births in March 1958, and another that did the same for babies born in April 1970. The children in the studies had their intelligence assessed at age 10 or 11; as adults ages 30 or 33, their levels of social conservatism and racism were measured. [Life's Extremes: Democrat vs. Republican]

In the first study, verbal and nonverbal intelligence was measured using tests that asked people to find similarities and differences between words, shapes and symbols. The second study measured cognitive abilities in four ways, including number recall, shape-drawing tasks, defining words and identifying patterns and similarities among words. Average IQ is set at 100.

Social conservatives were defined as people who agreed with a laundry list of statements such as "Family life suffers if mum is working full-time," and "Schools should teach children to obey authority." Attitudes toward other races were captured by measuring agreement with statements such as "I wouldn't mind working with people from other races." (These questions measured overt prejudiced attitudes, but most people, no matter how egalitarian, do hold unconscious racial biases; Hodson's work can't speak to this "underground" racism.)

As suspected, low intelligence in childhood corresponded with racism in adulthood. But the factor that explained the relationship between these two variables was political: When researchers included social conservatism in the analysis, those ideologies accounted for much of the link between brains and bias.

People with lower cognitive abilities also had less contact with people of other races.

"This finding is consistent with recent research demonstrating that intergroup contact is mentally challenging and cognitively draining, and consistent with findings that contact reduces prejudice," said Hodson, who along with his colleagues published these results online Jan. 5 in the journal Psychological Science.

A study of averages

Hodson was quick to note that the despite the link found between low intelligence and social conservatism, the researchers aren't implying that all liberals are brilliant and all conservatives stupid. The research is a study of averages over large groups, he said.

"There are multiple examples of very bright conservatives and not-so-bright liberals, and many examples of very principled conservatives and very intolerant liberals," Hodson said.

Nosek gave another example to illustrate the dangers of taking the findings too literally.

"We can say definitively men are taller than women on average," he said. "But you can't say if you take a random man and you take a random woman that the man is going to be taller. There's plenty of overlap."

Nonetheless, there is reason to believe that strict right-wing ideology might appeal to those who have trouble grasping the complexity of the world.

"Socially conservative ideologies tend to offer structure and order," Hodson said, explaining why these beliefs might draw those with low intelligence. "Unfortunately, many of these features can also contribute to prejudice."

In another study, this one in the United States, Hodson and Busseri compared 254 people with the same amount of education but different levels of ability in abstract reasoning. They found that what applies to racism may also apply to homophobia. People who were poorer at abstract reasoning were more likely to exhibit prejudice against gays. As in the U.K. citizens, a lack of contact with gays and more acceptance of right-wing authoritarianism explained the link. [5 Myths About Gay People Debunked]

Simple viewpoints

Hodson and Busseri's explanation of their findings is reasonable, Nosek said, but it is correlational. That means the researchers didn't conclusively prove that the low intelligence caused the later prejudice. To do that, you'd have to somehow randomly assign otherwise identical people to be smart or dumb, liberal or conservative. Those sorts of studies obviously aren't possible.

The researchers controlled for factors such as education and socioeconomic status, making their case stronger, Nosek said. But there are other possible explanations that fit the data. For example, Nosek said, a study of left-wing liberals with stereotypically naïve views like "every kid is a genius in his or her own way," might find that people who hold these attitudes are also less bright. In other words, it might not be a particular ideology that is linked to stupidity, but extremist views in general.

"My speculation is that it's not as simple as their model presents it," Nosek said. "I think that lower cognitive capacity can lead to multiple simple ways to represent the world, and one of those can be embodied in a right-wing ideology where 'People I don't know are threats' and 'The world is a dangerous place'. ... Another simple way would be to just assume everybody is wonderful."

Prejudice is of particular interest because understanding the roots of racism and bias could help eliminate them, Hodson said. For example, he said, many anti-prejudice programs encourage participants to see things from another group's point of view. That mental exercise may be too taxing for people of low IQ.

"There may be cognitive limits in the ability to take the perspective of others, particularly foreigners," Hodson said. "Much of the present research literature suggests that our prejudices are primarily emotional in origin rather than cognitive. These two pieces of information suggest that it might be particularly fruitful for researchers to consider strategies to change feelings toward outgroups," rather than thoughts.

You can follow LiveScience senior writer Stephanie Pappas on Twitter @sipappas. Follow LiveScience for the latest in science news and discoveries on Twitter @livescience and on Facebook.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm good at math, but this isn't math. It's a test to see whether you know which signs have priority over which others. Let's see whether I can do this with clarity (and a few parentheses). Also, "My Dear Aunt Sally" is a mnemonic: My=Multiplication, Dear=Division, Aunt=Addition, Sally=Subtraction; this gives the order of operations - mult., div., add., subt.
> 
> The string given is 7+7÷7+7×7-7, or 7+(7÷7)+(7×7)-7, since division and multiplication come first.
> 
> 7÷7=1 and 7×7=49. So the string becomes 7+1+49-7, and I bet even you can finish this. If not, someone else will come up with it, I'm sure. In fact, someone probably already has.


Well, chit.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How can I get those emoticans Purl? You can PM me if you wish.


It's not really a secret. If you hit quote reply to any message that has an emoticon, it shows up as a code. Copy and paste the code into your message, and it comes out as a smilie. Here's one I've used a lot today:
 . Try it yourself.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I saw that.....Seems to me Clayton Williams could use a Bobbitt.... :XD:


That takes me back. Thank you, Nussa.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> !


Yet men are largely ignorant about women's reproductive health.

I never watch TV news.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Another job creator...disclaimer: I can only find this article on blogs, I did NOT look for the local news coverage. The fraud numbers at the end of the article are interesting.

http://iacknowledge.net/millionaire-taco-bell-owner-has-been-stealing-his-dead-mothers-benefits-for-decades/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, I post this with some hesitancy, because I really hope I'm overreacting. But -- you never know about such things. If nothing else, this is something everyone should know about and take steps to try to change if possible, so I'm going to go ahead and post it. And then I'm going to bed. I've had enough linkie-poo tonight.
> 
> * Local Law Enforcement organizations are getting in on the act too -- they're collecting facial images, and photos of your cars with license plates and recording where you go and storing all that in databases -- not just local databases but nation-wide databases because basically ALL the various agencies at all levels are sharing data.
> 
> ...


I can't act on this, even though I have no doubt it's true. I may worry about admin not liking my violent messages, but I have to think there's no percentage in the govt following my communications. They may be crazy, but they're not all that dumb.

Go to sleep. See you tomorrow. I'll let you know when they come to take me away.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would like to convince/coerce him into the "relax and enjoy" mode for insertion of those lower lip gauges. Have you seen them?


That's disgusting. Why do kids want to do such things to themselves?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I couldn't resist this little bit of new (to me) data. Please note that it was published in 2012.
> 
> http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
> 
> ...


So this confirms what we've known all along.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm good at math, but this isn't math. It's a test to see whether you know which signs have priority over which others. Let's see whether I can do this with clarity (and a few parentheses). Also, "My Dear Aunt Sally" is a mnemonic: My=Multiplication, Dear=Division, Aunt=Addition, Sally=Subtraction; this gives the order of operations - mult., div., add., subt.
> 
> The string given is 7+7÷7+7×7-7, or 7+(7÷7)+(7×7)-7, since division and multiplication come first.
> 
> 7÷7=1 and 7×7=49. So the string becomes 7+1+49-7, and I bet even you can finish this. If not, someone else will come up with it, I'm sure. In fact, someone probably already has.


Yes, even I can figure out the 7+1+49-7.... :thumbup: 
I think that's why I never understood math...I always felt as though they were trying to trick me...LOL. I still think so. :wink:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I can't act on this, even though I have no doubt it's true. I may worry about admin not liking my violent messages, but I have to think there's no percentage in the govt following my communications. They may be crazy, but they're not all that dumb.
> 
> Go to sleep. See you tomorrow. I'll let you know when they come to take me away.


I am much more concerned with this than with drones snapping a photo of me picking something out of my teeth at a red light.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/pearl-pearson-police-brutality_n_4603445.html

On Monday we will be observing Martin Luther King Day due to his leadership in the civil rights movement. What kind of civil right is this?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Another job creator...disclaimer: I can only find this article on blogs, I did NOT look for the local news coverage. The fraud numbers at the end of the article are interesting.
> 
> http://iacknowledge.net/millionaire-taco-bell-owner-has-been-stealing-his-dead-mothers-benefits-for-decades/


Waitaminute. Didn't LL insist that rich people work hard for their money and are honest and have all the other Boy Scout virtues? This is hilarious.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Waitaminute. Didn't LL insist that rich people work hard for their money and are honest and have all the other Boy Scout virtues? This is hilarious.


What we put up goes by so quickly I think we miss half of it. I know that I missed that "ad" piece that was SO offensive until I saw you respond. It happens all the time. 
Anyway, I posted a few of these the other day, too. 
Oh, that was about employers stealing wages, etc.

I find them extremely amusing. 
BTW, you were in my dream last night. HAHAHA, I thought that was pretty darned amusing, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am much more concerned with this than with drones snapping a photo of me picking something out of my teeth at a red light.
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/15/pearl-pearson-police-brutality_n_4603445.html
> 
> On Monday we will be observing Martin Luther King Day due to his leadership in the civil rights movement. What kind of civil right is this?


This is really too much for me. I'm shutting my computer and going to bed.

The men who beat him have been suspended *with pay*. They'll enjoy that, no doubt. What a horror.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is really too much for me. I'm shutting my computer and going to bed.
> 
> The men who beat him have been suspended *with pay*. They'll enjoy that, no doubt. What a horror.


Yup, it's enough to make an old lady cry.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> What we put up goes by so quickly I think we miss half of it. I know that I missed that "ad" piece that was SO offensive until I saw you respond. It happens all the time.
> Anyway, I posted a few of these the other day, too.
> Oh, that was about employers stealing wages, etc.
> 
> ...


Did your dream make me look fat?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Waitaminute. Didn't LL insist that rich people work hard for their money and are honest and have all the other Boy Scout virtues? This is hilarious.


Well, I guess you can never be to rich, or to corrupt. I hope they don't decide his punishement should be to pay the money back, and fine him. The only thing the really rich, corrupt people hate more than being poor, is having to do some time in jail. 
This type of thing seems to be typical of the rich these days. :thumbdown:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Great joke. If I hit him on the head with a hammer, he should just relax and enjoy it.


Go a little lower, you'll have 3 separate targets. Spread out that exquisite enjoyment!

Karen N. (who now has the song"If I had a hammer..." reverberating in my head...)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did your dream make me look fat?


Oh no, Ma'am. 
You looked like


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is really too much for me. I'm shutting my computer and going to bed.
> 
> The men who beat him have been suspended *with pay*. They'll enjoy that, no doubt. What a horror.


Yes, it seems the higher your pay the more likely one is to be suspended with pay. Better unions, I guess... 
My folks used to be suspended without pay, we had to go to unemployment and get that for them, funny little thing about them being willing to work and not allowed to.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I would like to convince/coerce him into the "relax and enjoy" mode for insertion of those lower lip gauges. Have you seen them?


Jeez, those are bad enough in the ears. Now in the mouth? Does it interfere with the wearer's ability to speak??

Karen N. (who has piercings, not stretchings, in earlobes)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh no, Ma'am.
> You looked like


Will you please dream about me every night?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm surprised they'd bother to qualify anything. Lies are fine as long as they get the job done.



Poor Purl said:


> Note the "almost" in "almost everything that Conservatives said about Benghazi is true." There's a lot of leeway in that word.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I confess that I put that one out of my mind when I heard it. I stand corrected. Thanks Lisa.



VocalLisa said:


> Well, unless it's rape, according to Republican Clayton Williams who said that "_If it's inevitable,_" women should, "_just relax and enjoy it_"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now you're talking.



Poor Purl said:


> Great joke. If I hit him on the head with a hammer, he should just relax and enjoy it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find myself looking forward to them. They are so cute and cleverly placed. Thanks.



Poor Purl said:


> I love this one. You've totally corrupted me. I used to look down my nose at emoticons.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

shouldn't there be parenthesis indicating order or am I numerically challenged?



Nussa said:


> Just a little test. How good are you all at math? I have a mental block when it comes to math, (Those of you who hate me, don't bother with the insults), so me finding the answer was going to take more time than I'm willing to put into it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, Lorena, you did the world a favor....and inspired many.



Nussa said:


> I saw that.....Seems to me Clayton Williams could use a Bobbitt.... :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Once again Patty, we meet. Glad to see you. I say, 'Let them wonder.'



BrattyPatty said:


> So I guess slapping Clayton upside the head with a "Bobbit" could put me on the list? Uh oh


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now there's a study that confirms my thoughts.



Janet Cooke said:


> I couldn't resist this little bit of new (to me) data. Please note that it was published in 2012.
> 
> http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm willing to chance it too.



Poor Purl said:


> I can't act on this, even though I have no doubt it's true. I may worry about admin not liking my violent messages, but I have to think there's no percentage in the govt following my communications. They may be crazy, but they're not all that dumb.
> 
> Go to sleep. See you tomorrow. I'll let you know when they come to take me away.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I just hope they didn't get a grant to do the study.



Poor Purl said:


> So this confirms what we've known all along.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to try it. A whole new world may open up.

It works. Even for the technologically challenged.

 . Try it yourself.[/quote]


Poor Purl said:


> It's not really a secret. If you hit quote reply to any message that has an emoticon, it shows up as a code. Copy and paste the code into your message, and it comes out as a smilie. Here's one I've used a lot today:
> . Try it yourself.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's disgusting. Why do kids want to do such things to themselves?


Make sure their rebellion shows? Want to make sure they have a reason to use health care insurance? I don't want to look at it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarcastically>>>>And LL is always on the sane side?



Poor Purl said:


> Waitaminute. Didn't LL insist that rich people work hard for their money and are honest and have all the other Boy Scout virtues? This is hilarious.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Oh Good Grief, I'm SO sorry that happened to you. How terrible, and it sounds like what you went through in reporting it was, just like so many other women, yet another total nightmare.
> 
> I'm so sick of all this rampant misogyny in our culture, especially all the violence against women.
> 
> Hugs to you.


Thank you. Yes it was absolute hell. He ended up pleading to a lesser charge. Luckily we have rape counselors at our planned parenthood (the only place in the city) and she was great and sat with me for hours and hours to report it. But it is burned in my head the time we went in and protestors to abortion were out front screaming at me that I was committing murder, and I had my then two year old and husband with me (I was to scared to go anywhere alone at that point). That was a big reason that I developed a very strong dislike for those type of protestors.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Well, unless it's rape, according to Republican Clayton Williams who said that "_If it's inevitable,_" women should, "_just relax and enjoy it_"


And those are the times I need to start chanting to myself, "I am a pacifist. I am a pacifist." over and over.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Just a little test. How good are you all at math? I have a mental block when it comes to math, (Those of you who hate me, don't bother with the insults), so me finding the answer was going to take more time than I'm willing to put into it.


56


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm going to try it. A whole new world may open up.
> 
> It works. Even for the technologically challenged.
> 
> . Try it yourself.


[/quote]



Well, will you look at that........LOL. It really did work. :thumbup:


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:
 

> 56


You will find the answer here, Lkholcomb.

http://wiki.answers.com/.../What_is_7_plus_7_divided_by_7...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Just a little test. How good are you all at math? I have a mental block when it comes to math, (Those of you who hate me, don't bother with the insults), so me finding the answer was going to take more time than I'm willing to put into it.


Easy if you know the rule. If there are parenthesis, do those calculations first then start at the beginning of the equation and complete. Since that had no parenthesis, just do it as it comes, step by step


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so sorry you had this experience this all.



Lkholcomb said:


> Thank you. Yes it was absolute hell. He ended up pleading to a lesser charge. Luckily we have rape counselors at our planned parenthood (the only place in the city) and she was great and sat with me for hours and hours to report it. But it is burned in my head the time we went in and protestors to abortion were out front screaming at me that I was committing murder, and I had my then two year old and husband with me (I was to scared to go anywhere alone at that point). That was a big reason that I developed a very strong dislike for those type of protestors.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what answer did you find?



lovethelake said:


> Easy if you know the rule. If there are parenthesis, do those calculations first then start at the beginning of the equation and complete. Since that had no parenthesis, just do it as it comes, step by step


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Will you please dream about me every night?


I didn't sleep long enough last night to make room for dreams, I will give it a shot tonight though.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

It's 5:00am and I have been up since 3:30 because my mother isn't feeling well and I am on guard duty. Everything is fine now, but...

There's a post a few pages back about the extent to which we are all being watched in many ways, and way too much. Privacy?? What's that?? What surprises me is that no one here has said *"What difference does it make if you're being watched? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." * I don't think this question has any meaning anymore, if it ever did.

The point is that even the most transparent of us still have an interest in having some privacy. I don't know if we have a *right to privacy*. I may technically be awake but my brain isn't really awake. In the best of all possible worlds, I should have some privacy. In this flawed world, I think I need it even more. As far as I can remember, I don't think I have anything to hide, but that is completely irrelevant.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh, lovely. I hear my mother snoring. Maybe I can nod off, too. My eyes keep wanting to close.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, lovely. I hear my mother snoring. Maybe I can nod off, too. My eyes keep wanting to close.


You poor thing! Sounds like it's going to be a very long day--hope you can sneak a little nap in later.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It's 5:00am and I have been up since 3:30 because my mother isn't feeling well and I am on guard duty. Everything is fine now, but...
> 
> There's a post a few pages back about the extent to which we are all being watched in many ways, and way too much. Privacy?? What's that?? What surprises me is that no one here has said *"What difference does it make if you're being watched? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." * I don't think this question has any meaning anymore, if it ever did.
> 
> The point is that even the most transparent of us still have an interest in having some privacy. I don't know if we have a *right to privacy*. I may technically be awake but my brain isn't really awake. In the best of all possible worlds, I should have some privacy. In this flawed world, I think I need it even more. As far as I can remember, I don't think I have anything to hide, but that is completely irrelevant.


You're absolutely right, Maid. I have to admit that the thought of being spied on doesn't really trouble me, for whatever reason--but nonetheless it's important to protect our civil liberties, even on principle.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You poor thing! Sounds like it's going to be a very long day--hope you can sneak a little nap in later.


Thanks, Susan. I think it will be a long day, and the to do list I had for today has changed. I think both my mother and I will be sneaking any and all naps we can, and trying to remain calm. We plan and God laughs, which makes perfectly good sense to me right now.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, I post this with some hesitancy, because I really hope I'm overreacting. But -- you never know about such things. If nothing else, this is something everyone should know about and take steps to try to change if possible, so I'm going to go ahead and post it. And then I'm going to bed. I've had enough linkie-poo tonight.
> 
> * Local Law Enforcement organizations are getting in on the act too -- they're collecting facial images, and photos of your cars with license plates and recording where you go and storing all that in databases -- not just local databases but nation-wide databases because basically ALL the various agencies at all levels are sharing data.
> 
> ...


You're right, Knitry--it's not a joke. It's pretty much a given that our right to privacy flew out the window with the dawn of the Internet age. And, as the spouse of a man who's outspoken in regards to his politics and from an "unfriendly" nation (Serbia, in this case) to boot, it's a given that he, I, and all our contacts have been checked out at least once.

We went through a really weird episode with out landline some ten years ago. Shortly after 9/11 we noticed that whenever we spoke on the phone, every word was echoed back to us in a tinny sort of way after a two-second delay. Other times we'd pick up the phone to make a call and find the line open, with what sounded like a busy office on the other end.

It was maddening, and twice I called the phone company to demand they investigate and fix our "defective" phone line, with no visible results. The problem followed us through two moves and three years, then resolved itself with no explanation.

Who knows? If our line really was being tapped, the poor schnook who had to listen to the tapes must have gotten pretty bored with the endless rehashings of my labor, and of my breathless accounts of the baby's latest accomplishments. Still, the episode was and still is a bit unsettling, and it certainly encouraged my husband to start buttoning his lip in public.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're absolutely right, Maid. I have to admit that the thought of being spied on doesn't really trouble me, for whatever reason--but nonetheless it's important to protect our civil liberties, even on principle.


Maybe especially on principle. Our civil liberties, without trying to measure how much they have eroded, are both a set of idealistic concepts and I think we work harder to guard our deepest dreams and ideals. I'm blithering... and hymns are running through my head that eloquently express how I feel, and which I won't write here. Ah, one of my cats just came in to offer moral support.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope you get some sleep today.



MaidInBedlam said:


> It's 5:00am and I have been up since 3:30 because my mother isn't feeling well and I am on guard duty. Everything is fine now, but...
> 
> There's a post a few pages back about the extent to which we are all being watched in many ways, and way too much. Privacy?? What's that?? What surprises me is that no one here has said *"What difference does it make if you're being watched? If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about." * I don't think this question has any meaning anymore, if it ever did.
> 
> The point is that even the most transparent of us still have an interest in having some privacy. I don't know if we have a *right to privacy*. I may technically be awake but my brain isn't really awake. In the best of all possible worlds, I should have some privacy. In this flawed world, I think I need it even more. As far as I can remember, I don't think I have anything to hide, but that is completely irrelevant.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> And what answer did you find?


The right one of course


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> The right one of course


And the hits keep coming!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> shouldn't there be parenthesis indicating order or am I numerically challenged?


These days only two types of people need parentheses: those who claim not to understand math and mathematicians.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sarcastically>>>>And LL is always on the sane side?


She's sane. It's that other thing we use the brain for that gets in her way (see article Janet posted).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Easy if you know the rule. If there are parenthesis, do those calculations first then start at the beginning of the equation and complete. Since that had no parenthesis, just do it as it comes, step by step


Wrong again.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> And what answer did you find?


The one most people here found, which is not the correct one.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Well, chit.












My sentiments exactly.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I couldn't resist this little bit of new (to me) data. Please note that it was published in 2012.
> 
> Low IQ & Conservative Beliefs Linked to Prejudice
> Stephanie Pappas, LiveScience Senior Writer | January 26, 2012 10:29am ET - See more at: http://www.livescience.com/18132-intelligence-social-conservatism-racism.html#sthash.hQfALyRA.dpuf
> ...


Oh, wow. What a find. How ironic that one of the favorite reasons for their bigotry is that the targeted group is dumb or otherwise genetically inferior.

Remarkable.

Here's another incredibly ironic finding which will change your view of certain things (and people!) -- also not a new study, but it came to my attention again yesterday:



> * New Science Confirms Homophobic Men Have Intense Homosexual Impulses*
> From the article:
> The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of non-homophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies. PMID: 8772014
> Article here: http://www.feelguide.com/2011/06/16/new-science-confirms-homophobic-men-have-intense-homosexual-impulses/


And back to the "dumb" issue -- I saw this (again -- that is, also not new) just this morning. I considered posting the photos but -- just go have a look (but I warn you, this is REAL scary):

*South Carolina Christian School Fourth Grade Science Quiz * 
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/04/26/1205102/-South-Carolina-Christian-School-Fourth-Grade-Science-Test?detail=email


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I can't act on this, even though I have no doubt it's true. I may worry about admin not liking my violent messages, but I have to think there's no percentage in the govt following my communications. They may be crazy, but they're not all that dumb.
> 
> Go to sleep. See you tomorrow. I'll let you know when they come to take me away.


Just so I'm not misunderstood -- they're not "following" it now, they're collecting it so they can "follow" backwards, forwards and sideways whenever -- IF ever -- they choose.

As for not that dumb? Ahhh, surely you jest.

:lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> The right one of course


Not if you did it the way you proposed to.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wrong again.


But oh so consistent. Apology forthcoming? Never, on orders from on 'high?'


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Homophobic men have intense homosexual tendencies? Another long held suspicion confirmed. Protesteth too much? Shakespeare knew it all.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Yes, even I can figure out the 7+1+49-7.... :thumbup:
> I think that's why I never understood math...I always felt as though they were trying to trick me...LOL. I still think so. :wink:












You are CLEARLY vying for Purl's position as Class Standup Comedian.

This discussion reminds me of one of my favorite Pinterest pins:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> But oh so consistent. Apology forthcoming? Never, on orders from on 'high?'


They're all like that - not just the ones here, but the entire right wing. This includes Fox, which has done so much damage by getting so many things wrong, and the party leaders. Never so much as an _oops_.

But let a Democrat say something that's open to interpretation and they scream for apologies, which are never abject enough for them.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Thank you. Yes it was absolute hell. He ended up pleading to a lesser charge. Luckily we have rape counselors at our planned parenthood (the only place in the city) and she was great and sat with me for hours and hours to report it. But it is burned in my head the time we went in and protestors to abortion were out front screaming at me that I was committing murder, and I had my then two year old and husband with me (I was to scared to go anywhere alone at that point). That was a big reason that I developed a very strong dislike for those type of protestors.


PROTESTERS!! OMG, talk about adding insult to injury. Those people ought to put half the energy into doing things for kids who are already born. And it wouldn't hurt if they got a lesson or two on ALL the services Planned Parenthood REALLY offers. Sheesh. I'm with you -- I'm simply enraged by that as well.

NO one should have to go through what you did. But the sad fact is that anyone who is female can be subjected to any/all of that.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Homophobic men have intense homosexual tendencies? Another long held suspicion confirmed. Protesteth too much? Shakespeare knew it all.


Yes, and if you think about it, that's where they (probably) came up with the idea that gay marriage (and indeed anything gay being allowed in society) "threatens" traditional marriage --

BECAUSE IT DOES!

If gay marriage were allowed, then they might be tempted to run with it, so to speak.

I used to think that when homophobes would INSIST that being gay is "a choice," it would set them back and make them think if you asked them "So, when did you choose to be heterosexual?"

But when you understand this as part of the dynamic, you realize some of them are having to choose to be heterosexual again, and again and again, maybe even daily.

Sad, very sad.

As for Shakespeare, yes, yes, yes. Quite the genius. Here's something I didn't know about Shakespeare, and it blows me away (short but fascinating read):

*13 Words You Probably Didn't Know Were Invented By Shakespeare* 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/14/shakespeare-words_n_4590819.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Knitry--it's not a joke. It's pretty much a given that our right to privacy flew out the window with the dawn of the Internet age. And, as the spouse of a man who's outspoken in regards to his politics and from an "unfriendly" nation (Serbia, in this case) to boot, it's a given that he, I, and all our contacts have been checked out at least once.
> 
> We went through a really weird episode with out landline some ten years ago. Shortly after 9/11 we noticed that whenever we spoke on the phone, every word was echoed back to us in a tinny sort of way after a two-second delay. Other times we'd pick up the phone to make a call and find the line open, with what sounded like a busy office on the other end.
> 
> ...


Wow, Susan, what an incredible experience. Thanks for sharing that. I can't believe your apparent wire tapping lasted that long and through relocations. Have you ever considered filing a FOIA request for what the FBI might have on you and/or your husband? LOL -- you might not want to know; I sure don't.

Your example is an excellent one, though. I have no doubt that with a Serbian in the household -- and the phone calls out of country which gives the NSA automatic, warrantless access to all your communications -- your privacy is basically nonexistent.

Now, as you mentioned, all your contacts are also potentially within the surveillance loop. Let's say you and I became friends online but outside KP -- I could become part of your husband's "circle," and all MY contacts as well. Let's say he unwittingly became "good acquaintances" with someone who actually was involved in some political or even international stuff your husband was unaware of and would disapprove of and refuse to be involved. Doesn't matter. All of us -- including me -- could become quite _actively_ of interest to the intelligence community even while being as innocent as the day we were born.

I understand perfectly that many people don't feel personally at risk about this -- even as a potential -- and don't consider themselves paranoid or timid by nature, and just don't think it's such a big deal. One of the whistleblowers -- may have been Snowden himself -- put it perfectly when he described what we currently have as "turnkey totalitarianism." We have a situation where we must rely on the beneficence of the (mostly) men in charge, instead of being able to rely on our laws and Constitution. We have turned that description that we are "a nation of laws, not men" inside out, becoming instead a nation of MEN whose benevolence we are forced to rely on, not laws.

If anyone who's okay with that, they might want to take a really close look at the kinds of things Chris Christie did _routinely_ to get and keep people in line. For anyone not familiar with his storied history, here's a 7:12 video outlining some of his feats: http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/christies-culture-of-being-punitive-111573059905

Or, here's the NYT article referenced in the video:
*NYT article referenced: Stories Add Up as Bully Image Trails Christie* 
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/nyregion/accounts-of-petty-retribution-reinforce-christies-bullying-image.html

All we need is a not-so-benevolent-so-and-so in the White House making all too eager use of the tools at his disposal to REALLY run this country the way it ought to be run, by golly.



> A week ago, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) asked the NSA if it spies on Congress, and the NSA's response that it treats members of Congress no differently than it treats anyone else was a tacit admission that it does. Which should be chilling, at face value. But now consider such an apparatus under a President Chris Christie. If Christie's thugs will shut down a bridge to punish a Democratic mayor for not supporting Christie's re-election, imagine what they would do with access to NSA spying data on Democratic members of Congress.
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/01/10/1268639/-What-the-Chris-Christie-scandal-tells-us-about-the-NSA-spying-scandal


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The one most people here found, which is not the correct one.


You are right. I gave it some thought and remembered how you must multiply, then divide, then add and finally subtract in that order

Good to get the math refresher


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I see the security thing in a bit of a different light, I guess. 
1. It is concerning that anyone can be swept up and be falsely accused and/or imprisoned due to unseen and tangential (if I can use it that way) relationships. [that expresses what I mean, I have no idea if it is technically correct]
Remember that attorney from Seattle, I think, who disappeared for about 9 months? I believed he was shipped over to Saudi Arabia or some other "torture partner" we have/had. 
2. I can't quite see the NSA deciding that any of us would at this stage find ourselves in a position to be duped by terrorists, though you never know, in which case we might be better off in federal custody. 
3. It seems that some probably no more desirable entity will be given the duty of storage of all this stupid metadata. A bit crazy in my estimation, but, so cumbersome as to be useless in a malevolent usage. 
Then again, absolute power corrupts absolutely.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> You are right. I gave it some thought and remembered how you must multiply, then divide, then add and finally subtract in that order
> 
> Good to get the math refresher


But you were so sure of yourself. What made you give it "some thought"?

I never expected to see the words "You are right" in a message from you. I'm glad to have been of help.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I see the security thing in a bit of a different light, I guess.
> 1. It is concerning that anyone can be swept up and be falsely accused and/or imprisoned due to unseen and tangential (if I can use it that way) relationships. [that expresses what I mean, I have no idea if it is technically correct]
> Remember that attorney from Seattle, I think, who disappeared for about 9 months? I believed he was shipped over to Saudi Arabia or some other "torture partner" we have/had.
> 2. I can't quite see the NSA deciding that any of us would at this stage find ourselves in a position to be duped by terrorists, though you never know, in which case we might be better off in federal custody.
> ...


Not very reassuring. It's troubling to see how our constitutional guarantees have been irrevocably eroded during our lifetimes.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not very reassuring. It's troubling to see how our constitutional guarantees have been irrevocably eroded during our lifetimes.


The alternative to that is to avoid going into war mode when someone destroys our financial center and kills a small percentage of the population.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The alternative to that is to avoid going into war mode when someone destroys our financial center and kills a small percentage of the population.


I don't see that happening. We've been in war mode constantly, at least since the 80's, and before that we were simply at war, hot and cold.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't see that happening. We've been in war mode constantly, at least since the 80's, and before that we were simply at war, hot and cold.


Yes, isn't there some chart that shows that we have had something like 10 or 15 with no active war?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, isn't there some chart that shows that we have had something like 10 or 15 with no active war?


There seems to have been a long recess between the world wars (23 years) but no more, since the cold war came with the end of WWII.

What were Operations Determined Falcon and Freedom Falcon? I've never heard of those.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You are CLEARLY vying for Purl's position as Class Standup Comedian.
> 
> This discussion reminds me of one of my favorite Pinterest pins:


You are absolutly right Knitry. X,Y & Z should be used only in words like xylophone...yarn & zephyr.... I had a hard enough time when they started putting decimals in between the numbers...LOL. 
Really, I got off on the worng foot in school when it came to math, and I never could get those numbers to work together. Somehhow I missed that day at school when they handed out the secret to understanding math....lol.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There seems to have been a long recess between the world wars (23 years) but no more, since the cold war came with the end of WWII.
> 
> What were Operations Determined Falcon and Freedom Falcon? I've never heard of those.


Some Christian war, I think

OK, somebody PLEASE post something good soon. I need to stay away from that "slightly irritating" thread.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Some Christian war, I think
> 
> OK, somebody PLEASE post something good soon. I need to stay away from that "slightly irritating" thread.


Right now I'm reading a paper by a professor of linguistics on the subject of gefilte fish. If you like, I can post it here, but I think it's a little off-topic.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Some Christian war, I think
> 
> OK, somebody PLEASE post something good soon. I need to stay away from that "slightly irritating" thread.


Only tangentially correct. Determined Falcon was Kosovo; Freedom Falcon was Libya in 2011.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Right now I'm reading a paper by a professor of linguistics on the subject of gefilte fish. If you like, I can post it here, but I think it's a little off-topic.


Oh, why not. I have ice cream, chocolate syrup and a blender. Milkshakes & gefilte fish, anyone? The past 18 hours of my life have been weird enough that the proposition seems quite reasonable.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Right now I'm reading a paper by a professor of linguistics on the subject of gefilte fish. If you like, I can post it here, but I think it's a little off-topic.


We could discuss the health implications.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Only tangentially correct. Determined Falcon was Kosovo; Freedom Falcon was Libya in 2011.


You forget, my dear, we are a Christian nation.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Knitry--it's not a joke. It's pretty much a given that our right to privacy flew out the window with the dawn of the Internet age. And, as the spouse of a man who's outspoken in regards to his politics and from an "unfriendly" nation (Serbia, in this case) to boot, it's a given that he, I, and all our contacts have been checked out at least once.
> 
> We went through a really weird episode with out landline some ten years ago. Shortly after 9/11 we noticed that whenever we spoke on the phone, every word was echoed back to us in a tinny sort of way after a two-second delay. Other times we'd pick up the phone to make a call and find the line open, with what sounded like a busy office on the other end.
> 
> ...


Totally off topic, but we must have kids around the same age.  I was pregnant on 9/11. I remember a tinny repeated back in the phone, but I can't remember if it was before or afternoon. I feel sorry for anybody who might listen to us because we are quite the boring people in our house, lol.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I see the security thing in a bit of a different light, I guess.
> 1. It is concerning that anyone can be swept up and be falsely accused and/or imprisoned due to unseen and tangential (if I can use it that way) relationships.
> Remember that attorney from Seattle, I think, who disappeared for about 9 months? I believed he was shipped over to Saudi Arabia or some other "torture partner" we have/had.


I remember. Wasn't he from Beaverton, OR? That was truly awful.

You may also know that the U.S. has a number of citizens who are political prisoners. Google Barrett Brown as just one example. He a journalist who was on the track of some of other NSA sins (contractors, actually). Another young internet genius, Aaron Swartz, committed suicide not long ago after being mercilessly hounded and harassed and charged with ridiculous crimes by the FBI. Former Democratic Alabama Governor Don Siegelman is currently in prison on totally, TOTALLY trumped up charges and a journalist blogger who insisted on writing about it is also in jail and has been for a while. Here's a fairly good overview of this story: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024325045

Those are just the ones that come to mind.



> 2. I can't quite see the NSA deciding that any of us would at this stage find ourselves in a position to be duped by terrorists, though you never know, in which case we might be better off in federal custody.


I'll take that last part as sarcasm. No, KP isn't likely to be thought of as a hotbed of anti-American intrigue, but individuals? That could very well be another story. I know I've been loud enough, critical enough and activist enough over the years to probably be a target somewhere.



> 3. It seems that some probably no more desirable entity will be given the duty of storage of all this stupid metadata. A bit crazy in my estimation, but, so cumbersome as to be useless in a malevolent usage.


They've built a million square foot facility in the desert of Utah for the express purpose of storing and parsing all their data.



> James Bamford: Post-September 11, NSA enemies include us
> "Somewhere between Sept. 11 and today, the enemy morphed from a handful of terrorists to the American population at large, leaving us nowhere to run and no place to hide."
> ...Rising in a remote corner of Utah, the agencys gargantuan data storage center will be 1 million square feet, cost nearly $2 billion and likely be capable of eventually holding more than a yottabyte of data  equal to about a septillion (1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000) pages of text." http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022975102
> http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0911/62999.html
> ...


Finally, this may or may not be of interest tgo you but I stumbled over it in my notes and wanted to include it. It's a lengthy but compelling response to the commonly held "I don't have anything to hide" point of view:

__
https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/_/caeb3pl


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The alternative to that is to avoid going into war mode when someone destroys our financial center and kills a small percentage of the population.


I won't go into any real detail here (tho if you want links and stuff, PM me), but basically, we had ALL the information we needed and more to stop that attack on 9/11 before it happened.

So we didn't -- and DON'T -- need more surveillance to stop others. In fact, they finally admitted the other day that -- well, here, I can just copy and paste these links. Basically, it's not that effective. This is more than I intended to post, and I will make this my last post on the subject unless people want to talk about it, but it's important info.



> 14:29 1/13/2014
> WaPo: The NSA counterterrorism program was not essential to preventing attacks www.democraticunderground.com/10024323653
> LINK http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/nsa-phone-record-collection-does-little-to-prevent-terrorist-attacks-group-says/2014/01/12/8aa860aa-77dd-11e3-8963-b4b654bcc9b2_story.html?tid=auto_complete
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Obamacare update and a GREAT idea:



> *Total number of people who have coverage as a direct result of the ACA is 10,000,263*
> 
> Details here: http://obamacaresignups.net/spreadsheet
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Obamacare update and a GREAT idea:


One step at a time. I am so spoiled to be living in Mass.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are things calming down? Have you had your nap? Thinking of you.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, why not. I have ice cream, chocolate syrup and a blender. Milkshakes & gefilte fish, anyone? The past 18 hours of my life have been weird enough that the proposition seems quite reasonable.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, why not. I have ice cream, chocolate syrup and a blender. Milkshakes & gefilte fish, anyone? The past 18 hours of my life have been weird enough that the proposition seems quite reasonable.


As long as you remember that it only _seems_ reasonable. Your suggestion make me thing of the bassomatic from the early years of SNL. That's pretty much what gefilte fish is: ground or chopped fish with seasonings and maybe an egg to hold it all together. Not very appetizing, is it?

Besides, I said the article was by a professor of linguistics. It's about the different names for that dish in various jewish communities of Eastern Europe.

How's your mom? Have things quieted down? You seem quite cheerful now.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Are things calming down? Have you had your nap? Thinking of you.


Thanks for thinking of me. Things are calmer and we have a couple of doctor's appointments set up which should help. Pretty soon I get to zone out and not think about any problems that have happened in the last couple of days. I'm hoping we both sleep through the night.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> We could discuss the health implications.


You could. I just know that every package of it I buy assures me that it's been inspected for worms. It doesn't say whether the worms were disposed of.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You forget, my dear, we are a Christian nation.


I'm sorry - you're right. Mea culpa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Finally, this may or may not be of interest tgo you but I stumbled over it in my notes and wanted to include it. It's a lengthy but compelling response to the commonly held "I don't have anything to hide" point of view:
> 
> __
> https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/comments/1fv4r6/_/caeb3pl%5B
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry, duplicate post.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Siegelman story is truly incredible. I can't understand how he hasn't been released by some appeals court. It's been years, and he's a man with a lot of friends and some power - or was.
> 
> I wasn't aware that Aaron Swartz killed himself because of government harassment. Sad. No, criminal. I'd say this is not the America I grew up in, but apparently it is indeed that America; I (and most people) just weren't aware of it.


Aaron Swartz had battled depression for years, we cannot be too quick to lay it at the feet of the gov't that this beautiful young man failed to foresee the consequences of his actions. I have heard and read that people believe that he was harassed. I have not seen specific evidence of said harassment.

http://money.cnn.com/2013/01/14/technology/swartz-suicide-depression/index.html

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archives/2013/01/15/aaron-swartz-a-culture-of-denial-depression-suicide-in-tech/


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Siegelman story is truly incredible. I can't understand how he hasn't been released by some appeals court. It's been years, and he's a man with a lot of friends and some power - or was.
> 
> I wasn't aware that Aaron Swartz killed himself because of government harassment. Sad. No, criminal. I'd say this is not the America I grew up in, but apparently it is indeed that America; I (and most people) just weren't aware of it.


Sadly, it is the America we grew up in, after all there is proof that the FBI tried to pressure MLK, Jr. into the same action. 
The more things change the more things stay the same?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sorry - you're right. Mea culpa.


Let's see if it works

Yippee!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Let's see if it works
> 
> Yippee!


I hate to disappoint you, Patty, but I think that's my cat that's apologizing, not yours. When I hit quote reply to your message, no code shows up.

Try to paste it in another part of your message, outside of the quote box. This is very important. I need you to become proficient at it so that we always have at least one person who can put silly pictures on messages when we need them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I hate to disappoint you, Patty, but I think that's my cat that's apologizing, not yours. When I hit quote reply to your message, no code shows up.
> 
> Try to paste it in another part of your message, outside of the quote box. This is very important. I need you to become proficient at it so that we always have at least one person who can put silly pictures on messages when we need them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sorry - you're right. Mea culpa.


[/quote]

Testing 1-2-3

By Jove she's got it. Thanks Purly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Testing 1-2-3
> 
> By Jove she's got it. Thanks Purly.


I'm so proud of you. Now that we know how to do what any 9-year-old boy can do, what's next?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm much smarter than a third grader in some areas, not in others.



Poor Purl said:


> I'm so proud of you. Now that we know how to do what any 9-year-old boy can do, what's next?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm much smarter than a third grader in some areas, not in others.


The areas where third graders are smarter than us are unimportant. The fact that they can play music by squeezing one hand under an armpit doesn't make them enviable.

When I said "we," I meant "we," not singling you out. It just struck me as funny that first I, and then a bunch of other adults, all female, wanted to do this. (I have to give credit to VocalLisa, who knew how to do it already.)


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Aaron Swartz had battled depression for years, we cannot be too quick to lay it at the feet of the gov't that this beautiful young man failed to foresee the consequences of his actions. I have heard and read that *people believe that he was harassed. I have not seen specific evidence of said harassment.*


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/eric-holder-aaron-swartz_n_4576570.html

More (and then there's Google, of course): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/aaron-swartz-suicide


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I just had to share these two cartoons that absolutely CRACKED ME UP!!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/eric-holder-aaron-swartz_n_4576570.html
> 
> More (and then there's Google, of course): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/aaron-swartz-suicide


Yet, none of that says harassment. It may say overreach, it may say make an example of yet another hacker. 
Mr. Swartz knew what he was getting himself into when he chose to take the info. He knew that he was clinically depressed and that difficulty would most likely have detrimental effects on his disease. 
Every action has an equal, and often horrific, reaction.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I just had to share these two cartoons that absolutely CRACKED ME UP!!


You brought this on yourself:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I just had to share these two cartoons that absolutely CRACKED ME UP!!


I guess that world wide web gets us all in the end.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yet, none of that says harassment. It may say overreach, it may say make an example of yet another hacker.
> Mr. Swartz knew what he was getting himself into when he chose to take the info. He knew that he was clinically depressed and that difficulty would most likely have detrimental effects on his disease.
> Every action has an equal, and often horrific, reaction.


Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics and you're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I definitely consider the government's actions -- its overreach -- harassment, and I don't think citizens should have to allow for government overreach and abuse. That may actually be appropriate and wise in THIS day and age, but it's not the way things should be and I won't fault those who don't know to do it or for some other reason don't.

Would he have committed suicide without the mental illness piece? No way to ever know, but probably not. However, we can be pretty sure that the government's overreach was what triggered it.

Here we have Eric Holder on the one hand insisting (admittedly after the fact) that the government never intended him to serve "any longer than a three, four, potentially five-month range," http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/eric-holder-aaron-swartz_n_2819161.html yet the prosecutor apparently got irked that there was an online petition on Swartz's behalf or something (he had a LOT of friends), and so doubled down hard, going from 4 to 13 felony counts:



> Each of the charges carries the possibility of a fine and imprisonment of up to 10-20 years per felony. Depending on how many of the counts Swartz is found guilty of, the sentence could conceivably total 50+ years and fine in the area of $4 million. All this over publicly accessed research documents that JSTOR doesn't even feel the need to pursue further than it did.
> 
> http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120917/17393320412/us-government-ups-felony-count-jstoraaron-swartz-case-four-to-thirteen.shtml


A month after his death came this tacit admission that his cause was a worthy one (even if his civil disobedience may have been a crime): *White House Grants Aaron Swartz's Wish: Taxpayer-Funded Research Will Be Free * 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/25/aaron-swartz-white-house-taxpayer-funded-wish_n_2758744.html 
The House and Senate also passed legislation requiring public disclosure of government-funded research after six months.

For a few more details, I can't say it any better than Professor Lessig, one of Swartz's many prominent friends:



> But all this shows is that if the government proved its case, some punishment was appropriate. So what was that appropriate punishment? Was Aaron a terrorist? Or a cracker trying to profit from stolen goods? Or was this something completely different?
> 
> Early on, and to its great credit, JSTOR figured "appropriate" out: They declined to pursue their own action against Aaron, and they asked the government to drop its. MIT, to its great shame, was not as clear, and so the prosecutor had the excuse he needed to continue his war against the "criminal" who we who loved him knew as Aaron.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I am not so sure it is a matter of semantics at all, we all should have at least one cause we are willing to die for in our lives, I think. 
While I am sure that he felt significant pressure I can't imagine that a man as smart as that wasn't aware that he would be unlikely to spend much if any time in jail. 
Now, a felony conviction is a whole different matter. 
Quite honestly, I am a whole lot more concerned about death by cop and the executions that we have, both sanctioned and unsanctioned, by the criminal "justtice" system on an every increasing basis of people who have very few friends in the time that they are alive and after their deaths.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I loved the cartoons and the emoticom. I need laughs. Thanks guys.



Poor Purl said:


> You brought this on yourself:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I really have no idea why I'm not worked up about NSA's monitoring, but I'm not.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I really have no idea why I'm not worked up about NSA's monitoring, but I'm not.


There are just too many issues and alarming actions out there. 
Gotta pick your battles, I guess.

I was just "taken out behind the woodshed" by an old high school friend for posting an irreverent post 1. with a four letter word in it, 2. questioning how Jesus found acolytes with the names, John, Peter,Paul, Simon, ... 
It reminded me why, figuratively, I never went home again after graduating from high school.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hey Janet! You got me now babe. I have a high school friend who emails me pretty regularly. I'm insulted and distressed by every one, and I never reply. Persistent little devil. Those high school friends seemed important at the time. Some never grow up. Others never develop an interesting (to me) thought.

Pffffft! I'd rather have new interesting friends who can figure me out if I'm flummoxed by myself. Thanks buddy. Makes perfect sense. Choose your battles. Excellent mantra.



Janet Cooke said:


> There are just too many issues and alarming actions out there.
> Gotta pick your battles, I guess.
> 
> I was just "taken out behind the woodshed" by an old high school friend for posting an irreverent post 1. with a four letter word in it, 2. questioning how Jesus found acolytes with the names, John, Peter,Paul, Simon, ...
> It reminded me why, figuratively, I never went home again after graduating from high school.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Hey Janet! You got me now babe. I have a high school friend who emails me pretty regularly. I'm insulted and distressed by every one, and I never reply. Persistent little devil. Those high school friends seemed important at the time. Some never grow up. Others never develop an interesting (to me) thought.
> 
> Pffffft! I'd rather have new interesting friends who can figure me out if I'm flummoxed by myself. Thanks buddy. Makes perfect sense. Choose your battles. Excellent mantra.


I wish it didn't have to be that way, Empress, it is just impossible to address all of the ills we know about today. 
At least in the old days, they rolled out in a logical order. Now we have NSA, NRA, Freedom Industries filing bankruptcy (those bastages) freeways, bridges...I am beginning to hear a song coming. 
Well, toddling off to bed, was sleepless until 3 AM last night. 
Rest well. And ask yourself, why didn't Janet's friend just respond that THOSE are Hebrew names?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I really have no idea why I'm not worked up about NSA's monitoring, but I'm not.


I'm not, either. Even the RWNs here don't seem to be (until LL copies another one of her long articles and pastes it here).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I wish it didn't have to be that way, Empress, it is just impossible to address all of the ills we know about today.
> At least in the old days, they rolled out in a logical order. Now we have NSA, NRA, Freedom Industries filing bankruptcy (those bastages) freeways, bridges...I am beginning to hear a song coming.
> Well, toddling off to bed, was sleepless until 3 AM last night.
> Rest well. And ask yourself, why didn't Janet's friend just respond that THOSE are Hebrew names?


But they're not. Okay, John probably was, and Simon, but he changed his name to Peter, which is probably Greek. Paul was originally named Saul, which is certainly Hebrew. Jews are forever changing their names and their noses, even - or maybe especially - when they're no longer Jews.

The tradition continues to this day. I had a friend whose family name was Finkelstein. They had it changed to Fields, but people assumed they had shortened it to Fink, not a name anyone who had the choice would select.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But they're not. Okay, John probably was, and Simon, but he changed his name to Peter, which is probably Greek. Paul was originally named Saul, which is certainly Hebrew. Jews are forever changing their names and their noses, even - or maybe especially - when they're no longer Jews.
> 
> The tradition continues to this day. I had a friend whose family name was Finkelstein. They had it changed to Fields, but people assumed they had shortened it to Fink, not a name anyone who had the choice would select.


I believe your comment is anti-Semitic.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I believe your comment is anti-Semitic.


Which part?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess it's my turn to take the night shift tonight. Maybe I'll manage to fall back to sleep.



Janet Cooke said:


> I wish it didn't have to be that way, Empress, it is just impossible to address all of the ills we know about today.
> At least in the old days, they rolled out in a logical order. Now we have NSA, NRA, Freedom Industries filing bankruptcy (those bastages) freeways, bridges...I am beginning to hear a song coming.
> Well, toddling off to bed, was sleepless until 3 AM last night.
> Rest well. And ask yourself, why didn't Janet's friend just respond that THOSE are Hebrew names?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Improvements" are a dangerous thing. That's why I tend to leave things as they are.



Poor Purl said:


> But they're not. Okay, John probably was, and Simon, but he changed his name to Peter, which is probably Greek. Paul was originally named Saul, which is certainly Hebrew. Jews are forever changing their names and their noses, even - or maybe especially - when they're no longer Jews.
> 
> The tradition continues to this day. I had a friend whose family name was Finkelstein. They had it changed to Fields, but people assumed they had shortened it to Fink, not a name anyone who had the choice would select.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And I think your comment is silly.



lovethelake said:


> I believe your comment is anti-Semitic.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But they're not. Okay, John probably was, and Simon, but he changed his name to Peter, which is probably Greek. Paul was originally named Saul, which is certainly Hebrew. Jews are forever changing their names and their noses, even - or maybe especially - when they're no longer Jews.
> 
> The tradition continues to this day. I had a friend whose family name was Finkelstein. They had it changed to Fields, but people assumed they had shortened it to Fink, not a name anyone who had the choice would select.


Ah, but I stopped short, Empress... we have Matt... LOL, I am no good at this since I dismissed the Bible so long ago I have forgotten the names. 
Judas they left alone, of course. I do think that they are all derived from the Hebrew. What do I know?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Which part?


The part that says, "I have to find some way to break into this conversation with an insulting comment cuz I am an idiot.".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> The part that says, "I have to find some way to break into this conversation with an insulting comment cuz I am an idiot.".


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I believe your comment is anti-Semitic.


Of course you would believe that, and you'd be as wrong as you were about the math problem. I see nothing wrong with one Jew joking about the quirks of a few others. It's when a non-Jew says it - and believes it - that it's anti-Semitic.

Have you never heard any of those jokes about "a priest, a rabbi, and a minister..."? Are those anti-everyone?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> "Improvements" are a dangerous thing. That's why I tend to leave things as they are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> And I think your comment is silly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Ah, but I stopped short, Empress... we have Matt... LOL, I am no good at this since I dismissed the Bible so long ago I have forgotten the names.
> Judas they left alone, of course. I do think that they are all derived from the Hebrew. What do I know?


"Judas," or "Judah," is the name from which the word "Jew" is derived. Matthew is also from the Hebrew, though the Hebrew version is a lot longer. I have know idea where "Luke" came from. <editing: "know" should be "no"; Freudian slip, maybe?>


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The part that says, "I have to find some way to break into this conversation with an insulting comment cuz I am an idiot.".


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


>


Good one Purl. I'm going to try and remember this one.

/emoticons/action_applause_woohoo.gif[/img][/quote]

Rats.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No/know appears to be purposeful. It gives broader meaning to the sentence. I love your use of the language, and that's something coming from an old English major.



Poor Purl said:


> "Judas," or "Judah," is the name from which the word "Jew" is derived. Matthew is also from the Hebrew, though the Hebrew version is a lot longer. I have know idea where "Luke" came from. <editing: "know" should be "no"; Freudian slip, maybe?>


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> "Judas," or "Judah," is the name from which the word "Jew" is derived. Matthew is also from the Hebrew, though the Hebrew version is a lot longer. I have know idea where "Luke" came from. <editing: "know" should be "no"; Freudian slip, maybe?>


I meant because Judas was the "30 pieces of silver" guy that the translators left his name more obviously Jewish, speaking of anti-Semitism. Oh no, no, I must be speaking in error, Christians ALL love and respect Jews...or at least want them around at the time of the Apocolypse.

Oh, and if I recall, Luke is not directly related to the years of Christ. His Gospels are definitely from an oral history passed down from a story teller, I believe.
Anyway, the Luke section is supposedly historical and the ACTS and addendum, I guess.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Rats.


If at first you don't succeed...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I meant because Judas was the "30 pieces of silver" guy that the translators left his name more obviously Jewish, speaking of anti-Semitism. Oh no, no, I must be speaking in error, Christians ALL love and respect Jews...or at least want them around at the time of the Apocolypse.
> 
> Again with the hate-speech. All Catholics and Christians I know respect those of the Jewish faith. Maybe an individual person that is evil they distance themselves from, but that is the person not the religion.
> 
> And your apocalypse comment makes no sense, but no shock there. But if it means that all at the end of the world the Christians and Jews will go to Heaven because they believe in Heaven and have lived a life worthy of Heaven, more would be better on that wondrous and blessed journey


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > I meant because Judas was the "30 pieces of silver" guy that the translators left his name more obviously Jewish, speaking of anti-Semitism. Oh no, no, I must be speaking in error, Christians ALL love and respect Jews...or at least want them around at the time of the Apocolypse.
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Rats.


Here's the whole thing; your message left off a part:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here's the whole thing; your message left off a part:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I meant because Judas was the "30 pieces of silver" guy that the translators left his name more obviously Jewish, speaking of anti-Semitism. Oh no, no, I must be speaking in error, Christians ALL love and respect Jews...or at least want them around at the time of the Apocolypse.
> 
> Oh, and if I recall, Luke is not directly related to the years of Christ. His Gospels are definitely from an oral history passed down from a story teller, I believe.
> Anyway, the Luke section is supposedly historical and the ACTS and addendum, I guess.


I don't think you're right about Judas's name; it's simply a hellenization of the original Hebrew. Peter and Paul had changed their own names in their own lifetimes. Jesus's name is also Hebrew, and they never bothered to change that.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think you're right about Judas's name; it's simply a hellenization of the original Hebrew. Peter and Paul had changed their own names in their own lifetimes. Jesus's name is also Hebrew, and they never bothered to change that.


Jesus changed Peter's name from Simon. Because Peter means rock, and upon this rock I (Jesus) will build my church.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Again with the hate-speech. All Catholics and Christians I know respect those of the Jewish faith. Maybe an individual person that is evil they distance themselves from, but that is the person not the religion.
> 
> And your apocalypse comment makes no sense, but no shock there. But if it means that all at the end of the world the Christians and Jews will go to Heaven because they believe in Heaven and have lived a life worthy of Heaven, more would be better on that wondrous and blessed journey


What hate speech? Skepticism is more like it. And we have not all been universally loved by all Christians. Where was the love during the Spanish Inquisition - in fact, up to the 1960s and Vatican II?

The apocalypse comment makes no sense to you because it's not a Roman Catholic thing: the evangelicals are waiting for the Rapture, when only the true believers will be taken up to heaven while the rest of us (including you) suffer horrible unending punishment here on earth. Jews are loved by those Christians because the Rapture requires that the land of Israel be entirely under Jewish rule and in the condition it was in when the Holy Temple existed. When that happens, the love dies and only the Jews who accept Jesus will go to heaven.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


>


 The beat goes on.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think you're right about Judas's name; it's simply a hellenization of the original Hebrew. Peter and Paul had changed their own names in their own lifetimes. Jesus's name is also Hebrew, and they never bothered to change that.


The "history" you are reciting is from the Bible. 
Sorry, I just plain don't believe it. 
To me that is the same as claiming that the majority of Christians believe that Judaic prophecies include them in the Bible story of the end times.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The "history" you are reciting is from the Bible.
> Sorry, I just plain don't believe it.
> To me that is the same as claiming that the majority of Christians believe that Judaic prophecies include them in the Bible story of the end times.


I guess you're right. I wasn't thinking of it as history but as a story. I love arguing details of stories.

BTW, this semester I'm auditing a course on "Biblical Narratology," dealing with questions like who wrote the Bible and how can you tell? It looks like fun.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess you're right. I wasn't thinking of it as history but as a story. I love arguing details of stories.
> 
> BTW, this semester I'm auditing a course on "Biblical Narratology," dealing with questions like who wrote the Bible and how can you tell? It looks like fun.


Oh, I wish I could go!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What hate speech? Skepticism is more like it. And we have not all been universally loved by all Christians. Where was the love during the Spanish Inquisition - in fact, up to the 1960s and Vatican II?
> 
> The apocalypse comment makes no sense to you because it's not a Roman Catholic thing: the evangelicals are waiting for the Rapture, when only the true believers will be taken up to heaven while the rest of us (including you) suffer horrible unending punishment here on earth. Jews are loved by those Christians because the Rapture requires that the land of Israel be entirely under Jewish rule and in the condition it was in when the Holy Temple existed. When that happens, the love dies and only the Jews who accept Jesus will go to heaven.


Uh huh *Roman* Catholics like to forget that their prior popes have been accused of being the Anti-Christ from time to time.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not so sure it is a matter of semantics at all, we all should have at least one cause we are willing to die for in our lives, I think.


Hmmm, that's noble. What's yours?



> While I am sure that he felt significant pressure I can't imagine that a man as smart as that wasn't aware that he would be unlikely to spend much if any time in jail.


That's just it -- he had absolutely no indication or hope of that, nor did his parents or friends or, most importantly, his lawyers.

Nor was Martha Stewart privileged enough to get off, though that was an entirely different matter.

More to the matter at hand, it's well known that the Feds are particularly keen on prosecuting digital "crimes" and whatever they can transform into a digital / electronic crime. They want to reserve those privileges for themselves I suppose, and definitely discourage other hackers. Do you know, for example, that the hacker who was responsible for finally getting some light shown on the Steubenville rape so we could get a real investigation and a prosecution on that is serving more time by an order of magnitude than the rapists themselves??



> Now, a felony conviction is a whole different matter.


But that's what the charges were. Fifty years worth. What is different? I don't understand this comment.

I guess we could say that in the final analysis, the cause Swartz was willing to die for was not becoming a convicted felon.



> Quite honestly, I am a whole lot more concerned about death by cop and the executions that we have, both sanctioned and unsanctioned, by the criminal "justtice" system on an every increasing basis of people who have very few friends in the time that they are alive and after their deaths.


Well, we definitely share that, though I don't really see all that big a difference except perhaps by degree. Both, IMO, are indicative of the burgeoning police state we live in.

We see this very differently and I suspect never the twain shall meet. And that is perfectly okay. I appreciate the opportunity to discuss it with you because it deepened my own understanding of the debacle.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't think it is noble at all to have something one is willing to die for. My cause broadly defined would be civil rights, more closely defined worker rights. 


We do obviously have to agree to disagree or at least not fully agree. 
I just wish that we could have these discussions in a public thread on the forum so that people could see that people can disagree and not name call or get all pissy.

Oh, I forgot. The piece about the felony was because even with a short "time served" conviction having a felony on his record would be truly detrimental.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> What hate speech? Skepticism is more like it. And we have not all been universally loved by all Christians. Where was the love during the Spanish Inquisition - in fact, up to the 1960s and Vatican II?
> 
> The apocalypse comment makes no sense to you because it's not a Roman Catholic thing: the evangelicals are waiting for the Rapture, when only the true believers will be taken up to heaven while the rest of us (including you) suffer horrible unending punishment here on earth. Jews are loved by those Christians because the Rapture requires that the land of Israel be entirely under Jewish rule and in the condition it was in when the Holy Temple existed. *When that happens, the love dies and only the Jews who accept Jesus will go to heaven.*


And if you listen with just a little discernment to their comments professing love and fidelity to Israel, you'll note that that "love" is really just a good, facile imitation.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh, I forgot. The piece about the felony was because even with a short "time served" conviction having a felony on his record would be truly detrimental.


Yep. As I understand it, that was the whole nub of the matter.

Again, thanks for your comments.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess you're right. I wasn't thinking of it as history but as a story. I love arguing details of stories.
> 
> BTW, this semester I'm auditing a course on "Biblical Narratology," dealing with questions like who wrote the Bible and how can you tell? It looks like fun.


That does sound like fun. LOL -- esp. the "auditing" part.

Somehow that reminds me of my mother. She was not Christian at all, but was fascinated by and very interested in Jesus and that time period, etc. She had quite a few books in her library on the subject -- the Dead Sea Scrolls and bunches more whose titles escape me. She'd have loved such a course as well.

You'll have to share highlights with us. I remember something about a confab of Church big wigs that tore the whole thing apart circa 400 AD or so, got rid of some really juicy things that would make current believers blanche (Jesus MARRIED? and to Mary Magdelene?? Hmmm). But the details escape me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh, I wish I could go!


The odd thing is that classes are limited to 12 students (they're largely seminars), and most of the time they fill up or at least 10 people will have signed up. This class has only 5 signed up so far; I'll be the sixth. Classes start on Jan. 27, so more may come along, but the subject doesn't seem to interest many people.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> And if you listen with just a little discernment to their comments professing love and fidelity to Israel, you'll note that that "love" is really just a good, facile imitation.


But they love me. I'm one of God's chosen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> That does sound like fun. LOL -- esp. the "auditing" part.
> 
> Somehow that reminds me of my mother. She was not Christian at all, but was fascinated by and very interested in Jesus and that time period, etc. She had quite a few books in her library on the subject -- the Dead Sea Scrolls and bunches more whose titles escape me. She'd have loved such a course as well.
> 
> You'll have to share highlights with us. I remember something about a confab of Church big wigs that tore the whole thing apart circa 400 AD or so, got rid of some really juicy things that would make current believers blanche (Jesus MARRIED? and to Mary Magdelene?? Hmmm). But the details escape me.


Bear in mind that this is a literature course, in a graduate English Dept. And it will mainly cover the Hebrew Bible, which appears to have had numerous writers. The New Testament did not. There won't be much about Jesus.

If anything interesting comes up, I'll pass it on. Also, the reading list may be of interest.

I may also take a class on Edith Wharton or Jane Austen. More interested in Austen, but she's easy to read on one's own. The Wharton class comes right after the Bible class, so would be more convenient.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The part that says, "I have to find some way to break into this conversation with an insulting comment cuz I am an idiot.".


Oh......that part! :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Bear in mind that this is a literature course, in a graduate English Dept. And it will mainly cover the Hebrew Bible, which appears to have had numerous writers. The New Testament did not. There won't be much about Jesus.
> 
> If anything interesting comes up, I'll pass it on. Also, the reading list may be of interest.
> 
> I may also take a class on Edith Wharton or Jane Austen. More interested in Austen, but she's easy to read on one's own. The Wharton class comes right after the Bible class, so would be more convenient.


Is your space in the seminar safe at this point? Or woulld you be replaced, even at this late date, if 6 students wanted a spot?

Sadly, Wharton never made my heart go pit a pat. 
I think I looked at Ethan Frome because it was required reading. 
I thought about reading The House of Mirth because my mother read it probably 5 times that I am aware of. I never did get a straight answer about why. Maybe just because it was in the house, who knows? 
I think I started to read a biography and lost interest. Ah well, maybe I will pick something up.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Is your space in the seminar safe at this point? Or woulld you be replaced, even at this late date, if 6 students wanted a spot?


I'm not registered; I asked the professor whether I could sit in, and he said yes. So I'm safe.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not registered; I asked the professor whether I could sit in, and he said yes. So I'm safe.


Oh good, someone you know personally?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh good, someone you know personally?


In this case, yes; I took one of his classes a couple of years ago, and I've since learned that he's the friend of a woman I worked with in the sixties and am still sometimes in touch with. But I've asked perfect strangers for permission to sit in, and for the most part they've been agreeable. It's a really nice way to fill up some of the too-much-spare-time that comes with retirement, if you don't play golf.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> In this case, yes; I took one of his classes a couple of years ago, and I've since learned that he's the friend of a woman I worked with in the sixties and am still sometimes in touch with. But I've asked perfect strangers for permission to sit in, and for the most part they've been agreeable. It's a really nice way to fill up some of the too-much-spare-time that comes with retirement, if you don't play golf.


You're so lucky! I'd like to go back to school after I retire--or sooner, if I happen to win the lottery. 

I have a BA in history, but I'd like to study something else, something completely different--a hard science, like biology or chemistry, or a language I'm completely unfamiliar with, such as Chinese.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In this case, yes; I took one of his classes a couple of years ago, and I've since learned that he's the friend of a woman I worked with in the sixties and am still sometimes in touch with. But I've asked perfect strangers for permission to sit in, and for the most part they've been agreeable. It's a really nice way to fill up some of the too-much-spare-time that comes with retirement, if you don't play golf.


Maybe I should go hang around at Wheaton or Stonehill, see if I can spark up an invite or two.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> I really have no idea why I'm not worked up about NSA's monitoring, but I'm not.


Sigh. What am I going to do with you? And Purl? And Janet?

Just kidding. I truly get it that (a) not everyone can be interested in everything and/or (b) it can be overwhelming even if you are or want to be interested. Sooo, I'll (try to) keep my comments to a minimum or nonexistent here on, but I do want to share a couple of things I hope you will keep in mind while you're busy NOT paying any attention going forward.









I do hope you'll either read it now or come back to it at some time. As a citizen of this country, you really do NEED to know this when you are able to absorb it.

I've been monitoring the subject fairly intensely since the news broke, and believe me, it IS overwhelming at times. I can easily understand why most law-abiding citizens see little or no threat to themselves, and truly believe it's the "terrorists" they're after. The first assumption is likely true enough -- that few here will be threatened directly (esp. in the short term) -- but the 2nd part is not:

*There is far too much surveillance going on at too many levels and of too many people for this to be just about terrorism, while there's been absolutely no indication, no proof that it's been effective against terrorism, despite claims to the contrary.* Further, the tentacles are everywhere and the sheer size and weight of the infrastructure they've built ensures that it will not easily be reformed, let alone dismantled (and dismantling is what a good bit of it sorely needs).

If you think that's okay, that we would have great difficulty dismantling or even reforming it, please understand a few more things:

*EVERYONE is being surveilled -- either in aggregate (records scooped up and "saved" for potential use later), or much more actively for INDIVIDUAL Congressmembers, Supreme Court judges, other governmental officials and various public servants.

They are collecting and saving your credit card transactions, your phone metadata (as well as call contents,), your license plate and facial image, your whereabouts, your DNA when they can get it, your emails, your social media content, and so forth and so on. There is very little about you they cannot know, and in very short order if it's on file, or very little longer if it's not already on file.

Your phones can listen in on you whether they're on or not; your TV and computer can watch you back; there are more and more cameras snapping photos of you and your vehicle wherever you go. They now have the technology to use radio waves to snoop on computers worldwide that aren't connected to the internet, to intercept deliveries of computers to install spyware, and the NSA created and promulgated a flawed formula for generating random numbers to create a "back door" in encryption products which was distributed by one of the most important distributors of that formula. Then don't forget drones which can surveil you from 10,000 feet above and those as small as insects could even potentially enter your home unseen.*

If you're read this far, you either get it why I'm concerned, or have completely zoned out and tuned out.

*All of your information -- whether acquired by the FBI, NSA, CIA, or local law enforcement organizations -- are freely and openly shared with all the other organizations.

We also have some serious privacy concerns relative to private commercial businesses, especially online. THEY collect a lot of information, most of it more or less by permission, some of it what the government is not allowed to collect. BUT the government is free to buy that info, or thinks they are given no law to the contrary, and they DO. *

On and on it goes. Your life is an open book, whether you know it or not, whether you like it or not.

None of this is hyperbole.

So if you're perfectly okay being constantly and totally surveilled, I won't try to talk you out of it. BUT, I would ask you to contemplate and mull over for what earthly purpose our government officials are being actively and individually surveilled?

What business does the NSA have snooping and spying on Justice Alito? Congressman Sanders?

The NSA and parts of the CIA (and probably parts of the FBI as well) have been rogue organizations for quite some time. NSA director James Clapper got up in front of Congress and told a bald-faced lie not long ago -- which he later freely admitted it!. Neither anyone in Congress nor the POTUS lifted an eyebrow.

Obama insists any abuses weren't intentional, and that's baloney. They know exactly what they're doing. Our intelligence community leaders are quite cavalier (and pretty darned arrogant) about ignoring the law, the Constitution, court rulings, etc. They are a law unto themselves. They have ENORMOUS power. HOW ARE THEY USING IT? How will they use it in the future? How would they use it under a Chris Christie administration?

When various court cases arise before various Federal courts or the SCOTUS, how easy would it be to ensure a favorable ruling from one or two key members? Could a little inside knowledge keep Chief Justice Roberts appointing really favorable judges to the secret FISA Court?

What made Obama do a complete 180 re his position on the NSA before versus after his election? Is he that power hungry? Or that afraid of terrorists (even though, as I've said, that is NOT the main focus of NSA)?

There's so much more, but one of the really key things is that instead of surveilling TERRORISTS, the NSA and CIA and FBI and local law enforcement (google "fbi fusion centers" ) spend a lot of time, energy and money surveilling and harassing peaceful dissenters and protesters -- and hooking up with big corporations like Monsanto, JPMorgan Chase and others to do so. Would be one thing if they just kept a watchful eye on them (without the corporate hookup), but instead they've routinely engaged in brutal suppression. Internationally they're focused on industrial espionage -- IOW, spying for corporations. That's wrong too, at least in my book.

These are somewhat lengthy videos (pick one unless you want to view more), but they show how the information garnered by some of that infrastructure -- specifically those hundreds of thousands of government spy contractors -- can use this spiffy software. It's really mindboggling - if you do nothing else, bookmark one or more and have a look when you have time (while knitting??):






or 




or 32:51 




or 37:58 




Please remember what our whistleblowers have said about our current situation: that is the perfect setup for "turnkey totalitarianism."


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Janet Cooke said:
> 
> 
> > I meant because Judas was the "30 pieces of silver" guy that the translators left his name more obviously Jewish, speaking of anti-Semitism. Oh no, no, I must be speaking in error, Christians ALL love and respect Jews...or at least want them around at the time of the Apocolypse.
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're so lucky! I'd like to go back to school after I retire--or sooner, if I happen to win the lottery.
> 
> I have a BA in history, but I'd like to study something else, something completely different--a hard science, like biology or chemistry, or a language I'm completely unfamiliar with, such as Chinese.


It isn't luck. It's DH's idea. Not long after he retired, he started taking classes at various universities in various fields. This semester it's Hegelian philosophy and Victorian poetry. The luck, I guess, comes from the fact that we're surrounded by universities here. DH tends to go to Columbia because it's within walking distance; I choose City University of New York because the happiest time of my life was spent there (though it's moved to different quarters) and it's really cheap.

You're kind of young, though you may have some time available. You can be a non-matric somewhere, if there's a college within reasonable. In fact, that's how I got into mathematics after a BA in English.

I sometimes think I ought to learn to speak Russian, but then I talk myself out of it.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Bear in mind that this is a literature course, in a graduate English Dept. And it will mainly cover the Hebrew Bible, which appears to have had numerous writers. The New Testament did not. There won't be much about Jesus.
> 
> If anything interesting comes up, I'll pass it on. Also, the reading list may be of interest.
> 
> I may also take a class on Edith Wharton or Jane Austen. More interested in Austen, but she's easy to read on one's own. The Wharton class comes right after the Bible class, so would be more convenient.


Well, it may not show, but there was a time when I seriously considered going for graduate degrees and becoming an academic myself. Literary Criticism was my special love, though I remember a class on playwrights post Shakespeare I really enjoyed, but the details escape me and Google didn't offer up any clues. All of that is soooo far behind me, though. Alas, I don't even read any fiction or poetry any more, let alone any classics.

Anyway, I vote Wharton. 

And I'm pretty sure that the New Testament got thoroughly "edited" over the years. Heck, it's my understanding the various translations alone were quite violent enough later on.

How is the Hebrew Bible different from what we think of as the Old Testament? Didn't you say that it's known as the Talmud and includes more books than the Christian Old Testament?? Any other differences?

It really does sound like a fascinating class.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/10/eric-holder-aaron-swartz_n_4576570.html
> 
> More (and then there's Google, of course): http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/aaron-swartz-suicide


I figured you out, at long last. You're a True Believer!!! I get it. I can cut you a skid and leave you to your paranoia. No wonder I thought you were like KPG. You're both True Believers who believe entirely different things are true. Happy maundering to you both.:XD: :XD: :twisted: :twisted: :XD: :XD: :twisted: :twisted: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe I should go hang around at Wheaton or Stonehill, see if I can spark up an invite or two.


You could do that, or you could look at their schedules and send emails. Most colleges have at least a few seats set aside for "lifelong learners."


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> As long as you remember that it only _seems_ reasonable. Your suggestion make me thing of the bassomatic from the early years of SNL. That's pretty much what gefilte fish is: ground or chopped fish with seasonings and maybe an egg to hold it all together. Not very appetizing, is it?
> 
> Besides, I said the article was by a professor of linguistics. It's about the different names for that dish in various jewish communities of Eastern Europe.
> 
> How's your mom? Have things quieted down? You seem quite cheerful now.


Yes, yes. i had entirely forgotten about the bassomatic, though I wasn't proposing blending the gifelte fish and the milkshakes together. And what's in a name if not everything? Variants in language can be fascinating. I know a song called "Rose Connalee" (and variants of that last name) or "The Willow Garden" in which the phrase "burgundy wine" sometimes appears as "burgular's wine" among people in the Appalachians who had never heard of burgundy wine. And that's just one example of so many transformations of words in the old time ballads that took place after the people who knew them came to this country.

Things have finally calmed down enough for me to hang out here and talk like a fool. It's ever so nice.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You could do that, or you could look at their schedules and send emails. Most colleges have at least a few seats set aside for "lifelong learners."


You know you're right. I have kind of written them both off as they don't seem to be interested in the sort of interaction that we are used to from Boston schools. The state schools have programs for 70+...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Well, it may not show, but there was a time when I seriously considered going for graduate degrees and becoming an academic myself. Literary Criticism was my special love, though I remember a class on playwrights post Shakespeare I really enjoyed, but the details escape me and Google didn't offer up any clues.


 The Restoration? There were truly wonderful - clever and funny and risque - plays written then.


> All of that is soooo far behind me, though. Alas, I don't even read any fiction or poetry any more, let alone any classics.
> 
> Anyway, I vote Wharton.
> 
> ...


The difference between the Hebrew Bible and the Old Testament is largely in how it's regarded: as a living document (at least to Jews) or one that's been replaced (to Christians). The contents are the largely the same, with a couple of differences that I don't remember off the top of my head. The Talmud is a whole other work. It was admittedly written by men - and only male men - and not, as believers would have us think, by God.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

O


Poor Purl said:


> What hate speech? Skepticism is more like it. And we have not all been universally loved by all Christians. Where was the love during the Spanish Inquisition - in fact, up to the 1960s and Vatican II?
> 
> The apocalypse comment makes no sense to you because it's not a Roman Catholic thing: the evangelicals are waiting for the Rapture, when only the true believers will be taken up to heaven while the rest of us (including you) suffer horrible unending punishment here on earth. Jews are loved by those Christians because the Rapture requires that the land of Israel be entirely under Jewish rule and in the condition it was in when the Holy Temple existed. When that happens, the love dies and only the Jews who accept Jesus will go to heaven.


Don't forget Hitler. He used the "Christian" thing in his speeches, especially in the beginning, to garner support for the party.

I totally got the apocolypse part, but then I grew up in an evangelical, fundamentalist church.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> What hate speech? Skepticism is more like it. And we have not all been universally loved by all Christians. Where was the love during the Spanish Inquisition - in fact, up to the 1960s and Vatican II?
> 
> The apocalypse comment makes no sense to you because it's not a Roman Catholic thing: the evangelicals are waiting for the Rapture, when only the true believers will be taken up to heaven while the rest of us (including you) suffer horrible unending punishment here on earth. Jews are loved by those Christians because the Rapture requires that the land of Israel be entirely under Jewish rule and in the condition it was in when the Holy Temple existed. When that happens, the love dies and only the Jews who accept Jesus will go to heaven.


You might enjoy Barbara Tuchman's book, Bible and Sword.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> O
> 
> Don't forget Hitler. He used the "Christian" thing in his speeches, especially in the beginning, to garner support for the party.
> 
> I totally got the apocolypse part, but then I grew up in an evangelical, fundamentalist church.


I keep trying to forget Hitler, but it ain't easy. He also killed a lot of Poles, most of whom are Catholic.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You might enjoy Barbara Tuchman's book, Bible and Sword.


I'll look into it. Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Knitry said:


> That does sound like fun. LOL -- esp. the "auditing" part.
> 
> Somehow that reminds me of my mother. She was not Christian at all, but was fascinated by and very interested in Jesus and that time period, etc. She had quite a few books in her library on the subject -- the Dead Sea Scrolls and bunches more whose titles escape me. She'd have loved such a course as well.
> 
> You'll have to share highlights with us. I remember something about a confab of Church big wigs that tore the whole thing apart circa 400 AD or so, got rid of some really juicy things that would make current believers blanche (Jesus MARRIED? and to Mary Magdelene?? Hmmm). But the details escape me.


Nicine counsel, yup, they needed to "approve" what went into "The Bible". Before it was a bunch of different books that people read and studied from. But they grouped all these different writings (probably some never intended to be kept and idolized for hundreds of years) into the one book. Then they declared all the other ones heretical. Some did survive and you can still find some, although it may be missing in parts, they are the gnostic gospels. The very little I have actual read (I bought a gnostic bible years ago, but it reads like the Bible so it needs to be the one thing I focus on at the time and as a mom that doesn't happen often, lol) is very interesting.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> O
> 
> Don't forget Hitler. He used the "Christian" thing in his speeches, especially in the beginning, to garner support for the party.
> 
> I totally got the apocolypse part, but then I grew up in an evangelical, fundamentalist church.


Don't you have to wonder how anyone with a smidgen of curiosity could miss the references right here on this website to what the fringe believe?
Heck, 2 separate times I have seen people suggest that people who don't believe as, um, strict Christian religionists do they (I) should go back where they (I) came from. Not that they were addressing my presence. People assume that I am Christian, generally. 
I think they were talking about Muslims as there seems to be some belief that Muslims come to this country and start trying to change something or everything. 
And hey, maybe they do, somewhere in Oklahoma, isn't that where they passed that anti-Sharia law bill?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Sigh. What am I going to do with you? And Purl? And Janet?
> 
> Just kidding. I truly get it that (a) not everyone can be interested in everything and/or (b) it can be overwhelming even if you are or want to be interested. Sooo, I'll (try to) keep my comments to a minimum or nonexistent here on, but I do want to share a couple of things I hope you will keep in mind while you're busy NOT paying any attention going forward.
> 
> ...


In keeping with whatever level of technology we've had in this country at any given time, there has been too much surveillance of individuals. Even worse is the incredible damage done to people who probably are acting under the assumption that we live in the land of the free.

The sheer wasted effort offends me just as much as the fact that the FBI and State Department have files on me dating from a time when I was in high school, studying a particular language, the study of which was considered controversial.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Knitry. Thanks for taking time to detail your thoughts on the subject. I understand and even share some of them. I do have a problem getting my mind around the sheer volume of data (on everyone?) Quite frankly, it's like conspiracy theories. I just don't see people as that focused or organized. Regardless, it's not a good thing that they have this data on everyone. Don't know how we'd ever get the worms back in the can though.

I think mostly that there are too many other topics I care deeply about. Glad we have you on our side. I'll pitch in if you need me.



Knitry said:


> Sigh. What am I going to do with you? And Purl? And Janet?
> 
> Just kidding. I truly get it that (a) not everyone can be interested in everything and/or (b) it can be overwhelming even if you are or want to be interested. Sooo, I'll (try to) keep my comments to a minimum or nonexistent here on, but I do want to share a couple of things I hope you will keep in mind while you're busy NOT paying any attention going forward.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It isn't luck. It's DH's idea. Not long after he retired, he started taking classes at various universities in various fields. This semester it's Hegelian philosophy and Victorian poetry. The luck, I guess, comes from the fact that we're surrounded by universities here. DH tends to go to Columbia because it's within walking distance; I choose City University of New York because the happiest time of my life was spent there (though it's moved to different quarters) and it's really cheap.
> 
> You're kind of young, though you may have some time available. You can be a non-matric somewhere, if there's a college within reasonable. In fact, that's how I got into mathematics after a BA in English.
> 
> I sometimes think I ought to learn to speak Russian, but then I talk myself out of it.


 What language do you hear when you talk yourself out of it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I loved literary criticism too. If I were stranded somewhere with only one author's works, I would hope to have a complete edition of Shakespeare. Always interesting, exciting and thought provoking. That and some yarn would make me one happy camper.

Anyone else care to share their personal thoughts on this one? I'd love to hear them.



Knitry said:


> Well, it may not show, but there was a time when I seriously considered going for graduate degrees and becoming an academic myself. Literary Criticism was my special love, though I remember a class on playwrights post Shakespeare I really enjoyed, but the details escape me and Google didn't offer up any clues. All of that is soooo far behind me, though. Alas, I don't even read any fiction or poetry any more, let alone any classics.
> 
> Anyway, I vote Wharton.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The rest of the motley fools are hanging about.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Yes, yes. i had entirely forgotten about the bassomatic, though I wasn't proposing blending the gifelte fish and the milkshakes together. And what's in a name if not everything? Variants in language can be fascinating. I know a song called "Rose Connalee" (and variants of that last name) or "The Willow Garden" in which the phrase "burgundy wine" sometimes appears as "burgular's wine" among people in the Appalachians who had never heard of burgundy wine. And that's just one example of so many transformations of words in the old time ballads that took place after the people who knew them came to this country.
> 
> Things have finally calmed down enough for me to hang out here and talk like a fool. It's ever so nice.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> The rest of the motley fools are hanging about.


At the moment if I have managed to rise to the level of being a motley fool, it is an example of how much a person who is close to brain death can accomplish. :twisted: :thumbup: :-D


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

damemary said:


> I loved literary criticism too. If I were stranded somewhere with only one author's works, I would hope to have a complete edition of Shakespeare. Always interesting, exciting and thought provoking. That and some yarn would make me one happy camper.
> 
> Anyone else care to share their personal thoughts on this one? I'd love to hear them.


I never liked Shakespeare, a fact I kept hidden for a long time because whenever I mentioned it I was told it was because I was stupid. I think it had to do with it being forced on me, instead of me finding it and wanting to read it. I've always been well read, I read Jane Eyre in third grade just for fun. So I'm sure that if left alone I would have found Shakespeare and perhaps liked it. But the forcing it on me along with the strict interpretation (basically there was no discussion of what this or that may mean, I was told this IS what it means, no free thinking) just killed it for me.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> What language do you hear when you talk yourself out of it?


HA!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> I never liked Shakespeare, a fact I kept hidden for a long time because whenever I mentioned it I was told it was because I was stupid. I think it had to do with it being forced on me, instead of me finding it and wanting to read it. I've always been well read, I read Jane Eyre in third grade just for fun. So I'm sure that if left alone I would have found Shakespeare and perhaps liked it. But the forcing it on me along with the strict interpretation (basically there was no discussion of what this or that may mean, I was told this IS what it means, no free thinking) just killed it for me.


I found that I started to really like and understand Shakespeare, and a lot of old poetry, when I learned to read the sentences instead of letting the rhyming words trip me up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You have exceptional energy. Go girl.



MaidInBedlam said:


> At the moment if I have managed to rise to the level of being a motley fool, it is an example of how much a person who is close to brain death can accomplish. :twisted: :thumbup: :-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I never liked Shakespeare, a fact I kept hidden for a long time because whenever I mentioned it I was told it was because I was stupid. I think it had to do with it being forced on me, instead of me finding it and wanting to read it. I've always been well read, I read Jane Eyre in third grade just for fun. So I'm sure that if left alone I would have found Shakespeare and perhaps liked it. But the forcing it on me along with the strict interpretation (basically there was no discussion of what this or that may mean, I was told this IS what it means, no free thinking) just killed it for me.


I'm with you, Lkholcomb. I too don't enjoy Shakespeare--Elizabethan English is simply too archaic for me. We studied Macbeth in 9th grade, and I read and understood it--or so I thought, until I stumbled across a book that had the original text on one side of the page and a modern "translation" on the other. Reading that made me realize how much I'd missed--very depressing.

No, if I was packing for a trip to Mars I'd take along the works of Steinbeck, Dreiser, Shirley Jackson, and Clarence Day--also some Betty MacDonald, if there was room enough in the suitcase for light fiction.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I'll have to give travel reading some thought. Check out my Goodreads list, as I will soon be sending out for a new book or two. Remind me not to read two 800 page books back to back again. 
I know that after seeing Philomena that I wanted to read The Lost Son of Philomena Lee, I would like to read something along the lines of the memoir that Twelve Years a Slave was based on, though I am not sure that would really be a good idea. Oh, and there is a book by a woman whose family was prominent in the slave trade and a connection to the Ivy League schools... 
LOL, all subjects to set me off, I had better find something a bit less emotional as well.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Party poopers, taking all the enjoyment out of Shakespeare.

Romeo and Juliet will touch all romantics. King Lear touches on all periods of life, love and trust. Othello shows love turned to jealousy and rage. You will recognize phrases still in common use today....400 years later. So many characters are impossible to forget.

I love it now that I can read what I wish....and it means what it means to me.



Lkholcomb said:


> I never liked Shakespeare, a fact I kept hidden for a long time because whenever I mentioned it I was told it was because I was stupid. I think it had to do with it being forced on me, instead of me finding it and wanting to read it. I've always been well read, I read Jane Eyre in third grade just for fun. So I'm sure that if left alone I would have found Shakespeare and perhaps liked it. But the forcing it on me along with the strict interpretation (basically there was no discussion of what this or that may mean, I was told this IS what it means, no free thinking) just killed it for me.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Party poopers, taking all the enjoyment out of Shakespeare.
> 
> Romeo and Juliet will touch all romantics. King Lear touches on all periods of life, love and trust. Othello shows love turned to jealousy and rage. You will recognize phrases still in common use today....400 years later. So many characters are impossible to forget.
> 
> I love it now that I can read what I wish....and it means what it means to me.


It seems that tonight is a night to discover where our interests diverge as well as our viewpoints that are in common.

Now if one of you could just tell me whether I took that darned cholesterol med or not...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> What language do you hear when you talk yourself out of it?


I speak in tongues. Also, I handle snakes.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Sigh. What am I going to do with you? And Purl? And Janet?
> 
> Just kidding. I truly get it that (a) not everyone can be interested in everything and/or (b) it can be overwhelming even if you are or want to be interested. Sooo, I'll (try to) keep my comments to a minimum or nonexistent here on, but I do want to share a couple of things I hope you will keep in mind while you're busy NOT paying any attention going forward.


Knitry, you already know how much I admire your knowledge about political matters, so I'm not trying to put you down, but (and, yes, it's a big - never mind) this message reminded me of one someone posted a month or two ago listing the locations of all the FEMA camps. I can't remember who it was or even whether she thought they would be used. At this time of my life, I'm more afraid that nobody will pay attention to me than that the government will collect my phone data. You're younger, and you're still interested and possibly active in Liberal politics, and maybe you should worry. As for me, my model is


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I loved literary criticism too. If I were stranded somewhere with only one author's works, I would hope to have a complete edition of Shakespeare. Always interesting, exciting and thought provoking. That and some yarn would make me one happy camper.
> 
> Anyone else care to share their personal thoughts on this one? I'd love to hear them.


I've never enjoyed reading criticism; I'd much rather read and reread the books themselves.

Shakespeare would be at the top of my list, especially the sonnets. People who can make a living reading and writing about Shakespeare are the luckiest people in the world. There's always something new, no matter how often you've read or seen a play.

Jane Austen (I've read Pride and Prejudice at least 5 times and Emma 3).

Herman Melville - I guess what I'm putting on this list are the writers of books that I've read multiple times. I haven't been able to get through everything even once, but Moby Dick is another book that presents something new every time I read it, and Billy Budd is sad and beautiful.

This would be a very long list if I continued, and it's past 3am, so I'll stop.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I never liked Shakespeare, a fact I kept hidden for a long time because whenever I mentioned it I was told it was because I was stupid. I think it had to do with it being forced on me, instead of me finding it and wanting to read it. I've always been well read, I read Jane Eyre in third grade just for fun. So I'm sure that if left alone I would have found Shakespeare and perhaps liked it. But the forcing it on me along with the strict interpretation (basically there was no discussion of what this or that may mean, I was told this IS what it means, no free thinking) just killed it for me.


This is one of the effects our education system has on bright kids: by insisting that teachers teach specific books that they don't really understand, it transmits a negative attitude to children, which can last forever. Better to take the kids to see the play or a movie version and leave the reading for college. I have to admit that I liked Macbeth and Julius Caesar when I read them in high school, but my English teacher then had earlier taught theater at Fisk.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you, Lkholcomb. I too don't enjoy Shakespeare--Elizabethan English is simply too archaic for me. We studied Macbeth in 9th grade, and I read and understood it--or so I thought, until I stumbled across a book that had the original text on one side of the page and a modern "translation" on the other. Reading that made me realize how much I'd missed--very depressing.
> 
> No, if I was packing for a trip to Mars I'd take along the works of Steinbeck, Dreiser, Shirley Jackson, and Clarence Day--also some Betty MacDonald, if there was room enough in the suitcase for light fiction.


That should make for a really fun stay. I went through a period in high school when I read a lot of American writers (not as part of the curriculum) and enjoyed them all. If you're going to Mars, though, you should also bring along Ray Bradbury.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I'll have to give travel reading some thought. Check out my Goodreads list, as I will soon be sending out for a new book or two. Remind me not to read two 800 page books back to back again.
> I know that after seeing Philomena that I wanted to read The Lost Son of Philomena Lee, I would like to read something along the lines of the memoir that Twelve Years a Slave was based on, though I am not sure that would really be a good idea. Oh, and there is a book by a woman whose family was prominent in the slave trade and a connection to the Ivy League schools...
> LOL, all subjects to set me off, I had better find something a bit less emotional as well.


Frederick Douglass was a wonderful writer, the more so because he'd been born into slavery and didn't write until adulthood. And, believe it or not, I recommend Uncle Tom's Cabin, a book I had avoided until a couple of years ago, when it was assigned in a class. I couldn't put it down.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Party poopers, taking all the enjoyment out of Shakespeare.
> 
> Romeo and Juliet will touch all romantics. King Lear touches on all periods of life, love and trust. Othello shows love turned to jealousy and rage. You will recognize phrases still in common use today....400 years later. So many characters are impossible to forget.
> 
> I love it now that I can read what I wish....and it means what it means to me.


They don't take the enjoyment out of Shakespeare. They don't take any enjoyment from Shakespeare, so it's all there for us to take.

I think King Lear is my favorite, especially since I saw the film version with Paul Scofield. Also Much Ado About Nothing among the comedies - pretty much a feminist play.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And, while you're at it, tell me why I'm up and can't get back to sleep.



Janet Cooke said:


> It seems that tonight is a night to discover where our interests diverge as well as our viewpoints that are in common.
> 
> Now if one of you could just tell me whether I took that darned cholesterol med or not...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Frederick Douglass was a wonderful writer, the more so because he'd been born into slavery and didn't write until adulthood. And, believe it or not, I recommend Uncle Tom's Cabin, a book I had avoided until a couple of years ago, when it was assigned in a class. I couldn't put it down.


Uncle Tom's Cabin might not be a bad idea especially in conjunction with one of the memoirs. UTC actually pushed the 12 Years book out of the limelight when it was published just a bit later. 
I did have fun investigating some books on GoodReads last night. 
A couple of them caught my eye. 
There was Flat Broke with Children by Sharon Hays, I Love Yous are for White People also looks pretty interesting. That one was written by Lac Su, it is an immigration story.

I agree about the exposure to much of the literature that high school students are forced into. The system chooses the time, or chose maybe they don't bother anymore, when students are the most oblivious and flighty and try to get them interested in complicated study. I think that you are correct, Empress, about the subject being taught by people who have to teach it to students who have to pretend to study it. 
Anyway, I prefer Dickens.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> And, while you're at it, tell me why I'm up and can't get back to sleep.


I think, My Dear, it is called insomnia. I am sorry you are suffering. I am glad that you are apparently staying away from all those stupid sleep meds, though.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Have you all ever checked out www.goodreads.com?
The piece of it that might just interest you are the discussion groups. the Jane Austen group is pretty active. 
Sorry, Shakespeare not so much.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitry, you already know how much I admire your knowledge about political matters, so I'm not trying to put you down, but (and, yes, it's a big - never mind) this message reminded me of one someone posted a month or two ago listing the locations of all the FEMA camps. I can't remember who it was or even whether she thought they would be used. At this time of my life, I'm more afraid that nobody will pay attention to me than that the government will collect my phone data. You're younger, and you're still interested and possibly active in Liberal politics, and maybe you should worry. As for me, my model is


Hmm...I think I fall in Knitry's camp on the issue of domestic spying. It's easy to dismiss the matter as, here in American, 99.99% of the information the Feds collect is deemed worthless and probably discarded after a suitable interval. After all, how many active terrorists can there be operating on American soil?
But, just as torture is less about wringing information out of suspects and more about keeping the general population in line, collecting data on people paves the way for the most horrible abuses. Luckily, we haven't seen that here and hopefully never will--but it can and does happen in other places.

Before he emmigrated, my husband was the head of a dissident group in Milosevic's Yugoslavia--something he managed to keep from his father, who was fervently pro-government. But when my future husband didn't respond to a draft notice in 1990 the authorities made a beeline for his parents' apartment and proceeded to fill them in. They knew all and told all--right down to stitches he'd taken in his head (courtesy of a bat-wielding Milosevic goon squad) that he'd passed off as a soccer accident.

There was no reason for any of this--my husband had already left the country, which the authorities had to have known. The real point was to sow the seeds of division between family members, to create mistrust, fear, and yes, even hate--so easy to do when authorities have full access to one's personal life.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I'll have to give travel reading some thought. Check out my Goodreads list, as I will soon be sending out for a new book or two. Remind me not to read two 800 page books back to back again.
> I know that after seeing Philomena that I wanted to read The Lost Son of Philomena Lee, I would like to read something along the lines of the memoir that Twelve Years a Slave was based on, though I am not sure that would really be a good idea. Oh, and there is a book by a woman whose family was prominent in the slave trade and a connection to the Ivy League schools...
> LOL, all subjects to set me off, I had better find something a bit less emotional as well.


I am sorry to say that I can't remind you not to read two 800 page books back to back. I like the books I read to last as long as possible, so, after picking a genre or author, I go for length of book. Audio books are great for this, because the humans can only read aloud and do a good job of it if they speak far slower than I can read print. I still go for the books that take more hours rather than less...


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I think I fall in Knitry's camp on the issue of domestic spying. It's easy to dismiss the matter as, here in American, 99.99% of the information the Feds collect is deemed worthless and probably discarded after a suitable interval. After all, how many active terrorists can there be operating on American soil?
> But, just as torture is less about wringing information out of suspects and more about keeping the general population in line, collecting data on people paves the way for the most horrible abuses. Luckily, we haven't seen that here and hopefully never will--but it can and does happen in other places.
> 
> Before he emmigrated, my husband was the head of a dissident group in Milosevic's Yugoslavia--something he managed to keep from his father, who was fervently pro-government. But when my future husband didn't respond to a draft notice in 1990 the authorities made a beeline for his parents' apartment and proceeded to fill them in. They knew all and told all--right down to stitches he'd taken in his head (courtesy of a bat-wielding Milosevic goon squad) that he'd passed off as a soccer accident.
> ...


Here's hoping that it isn't quite that bad, and it is just a hope. 
The security/spying situation is certainly alarming. 
I am just bowled over by people putting forward that computers that are off the internet grid, so to speak, are being tracked or that my phone is reporting on my activity 24/7. 
People do give up this info voluntarily, if folks believe this gov't conspiracy is real then they need to become a bit less dependent on hi tech. It just makes no sense for someone who has said that they spend hours using the web to gather info and categorize it to then warn us that what she is doing is the very activity Big Brother is tracking. So stop, is my thought. 
Just as I think that my phone can be used to provide all the information they want since half the time it is nowhere near me. I go away without it, I leave it in my car and go somewhere. I just cannot be all that concerned about something that, frankly, I cannot do anything about. 
So I will depend on Knitry to take care of Homeland Security and I will try to make a dent in living wage issues. 
As I said the other day, we need to pick our battles. It's probably a good idea to pick an audience of people who have not entered their "golden years" if you want to excite activists.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I am sorry to say that I can't remind you not to read two 800 page books back to back. I like the books I read to last as long as possible, so, after picking a genre or author, I go for length of book. Audio books are great for this, because the humans can only read aloud and do a good job of it if they speak far slower than I can read print. I still go for the books that take more hours rather than less...


I am generally a 3 book at a time reader. I have not been able to do that since I decided to finish this Jean M. Auel series for some reason. I have only read two other books as I have barreled through these.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Here's hoping that it isn't quite that bad, and it is just a hope.
> The security/spying situation is certainly alarming.
> I am just bowled over by people putting forward that computers that are off the internet grid, so to speak, are being tracked or that my phone is reporting on my activity 24/7.
> People do give up this info voluntarily, if folks believe this gov't conspiracy is real then they need to become a bit less dependent on hi tech. It just makes no sense for someone who has said that they spend hours using the web to gather info and categorize it to then warn us that what she is doing is the very activity Big Brother is tracking. So stop, is my thought.
> ...


Touche, Janet. It's true, our generation probably has nothing to fear from domestic spying. Still, I think it's good that there are some folks for whom this is a very big deal and are valiantly fighting it tooth and nail. All of us need to at least keep the issue in the back of our minds and speak up--loudly!--if and when we feel the government has overstepped itself in the area of personal privacy.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's my man, Robert Reich. I love that he is blunt and uses concrete language---easy to read by the ones who don't vote in their best interests. Maybe he should add cartoons for more appeal.

http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/reich/article/The-poor-are-fast-becoming-us-5153514.php


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's my man, Robert Reich. I love that he is blunt and uses concrete language---easy to read by the ones who don't vote in their best interests. Maybe he should add cartoons for more appeal.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/reich/article/The-poor-are-fast-becoming-us-5153514.php


Right on, Al. An updated Dick and Jane primer might also reach the Duck Dynasty crowd--Father smashing around the house after losing his job, Mother selling Avon cosmetics door to door in a pitiful attempt to make ends meet, Dick and Jane cleaning the school lunchroom floor to "pay" for their meal, and Spot being bundled of the local animal shelter after the family runs out of dog food.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I'll have to give travel reading some thought. Check out my Goodreads list, as I will soon be sending out for a new book or two. Remind me not to read two 800 page books back to back again.
> I know that after seeing Philomena that I wanted to read The Lost Son of Philomena Lee, I would like to read something along the lines of the memoir that Twelve Years a Slave was based on, though I am not sure that would really be a good idea. Oh, and there is a book by a woman whose family was prominent in the slave trade and a connection to the Ivy League schools...
> LOL, all subjects to set me off, I had better find something a bit less emotional as well.


Solomon Nortrup's book, Twelve Years A Slave, is a bit easier a read than the movie probably is to watch. I have only seen trailers for the movie and am absolutely convinced I can't take watching it. I'm no good at watching visualized violence. Northrup wrote the autobiography of his experience in 1853. The language reflects the times, and is not quite as graphic present day English, and probably not as horrifying as seeing it portrayed on a giant movie screen. *Nonetheless, it is strong stuff!!* I got the audiobook from Audible.com, and it is narrated by Louis Gossett, Jr. Even though the language is intense to read, Northrup nonetheless tells his story accurately and well. I have found listening as challenging as I can manage to accept. More would send me running out the door screaming. Here's the publisher's blurb for the audiobook:

"*Publisher's Summary*:
In this riveting landmark autobiography which reads like a novel, Academy Award and Emmy winner Louis Gossett, Jr., masterfully transports us to 1840s New York, Washington, D.C., and Louisiana to experience the kidnapping and twelve years of bondage of Solomon Northup, a free man of color. Twelve Years a Slave, published in 1853, was an immediate bombshell in the national debate over slavery leading up to the Civil War.

It validated Harriett Beecher Stowes fictional account of Southern slavery in Uncle Toms Cabin, which had become the best-selling American book in history a few years earlier and significantly changed public opinion in favor of abolition. This audio edition with an accompanying custom map is based on the research of Dr. Sue Eakin, the nationally recognized authority on Solomon Northup who spent a lifetime authenticating his story.

Hard working Solomon Northup, an educated free man of color in 1841, enjoys family life with his wife and three children in Saratoga, New York. He delights his community with his fiddle playing and antic spirit, and has positive expectations of all he meets. When he is deceived by circus promoters to accompany them to a musical gig in the nations capital, his joyful life takes an unimaginable turn. He awakens in shackles to find he has been drugged, kidnapped and bound for the slave block in D.C.

After Solomon is shipped 1,000 miles to New Orleans, he is assigned his slave name and quickly learns that the mere utterance of his true origin or rights as a freeman are certain to bring severe punishment or death. While he endures the brutal life of a slave in Louisianas isolated Bayou Boeuf plantation country, he must learn how to play the system and plot his escape home.

For 12 years, his fine mind captures the reality of slavery in stunning detail, as we learn about the characters that populate plantation society and the intrigues of the bayou  from the collapse of a slave rebellion resulting in mass hangings due to traitorous slave Lew Cheney, to the tragic end of his friend Patsey because of Mrs. Epps jealousy of her husbands sexual exploitation of his pretty young slave.

When Solomon finally finds a sympathizing friend who risks his life to secret a letter to the North, a courageous rescue attempt ensues that could either compound Solomons suffering, or get him back to the arms of his family.

*AUTHENTICATION*: Northups harrowing first-hand account was authenticated from decades of research by Dr. Sue Eakin, who rediscovered the original narrative as a 12-year old in 1931 and made it her lifes work.

For additional audio clips, background info and images, see our website at www.TwelveYearsASlaveBook.com."

PS. While the film is so recent, and people are probably snapping up copies of the book, if it hasn't been reissued, you can probably find a copy of Northrup's book by searching www.bookfinder.com.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitry, you already know how much I admire your knowledge about political matters, so I'm not trying to put you down, but (and, yes, it's a big - never mind) this message reminded me of one someone posted a month or two ago listing the locations of all the FEMA camps. I can't remember who it was or even whether she thought they would be used. At this time of my life, I'm more afraid that nobody will pay attention to me than that the government will collect my phone data. You're younger, and you're still interested and possibly active in Liberal politics, and maybe you should worry. As for me, my model is


My assumption is that, come the Revolution, some of us will be rounded up and sent to the camps in the same way Hitler rounded up Jews and other "subhumans". Some of us will be the ones to build and run the camps, their showers and ovens. Others of us will do the rounding up. Cynical? You betcha! I will be one of those who gets rounded up. Each of you can decide which group I've described that you will belong to. *And no fair opining that anyone other than yourself.*


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Thanks for the reminder, Maid. I remember an intense discussion a few months back over who thought they could or could not sit through such a graphic and intense movie--I still feel it would be too much for me, but I'm definitely going to hunt down a copy of the book. If anyone else is interested, it can be had from Amazon for as little as four-fifty.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am generally a 3 book at a time reader. I have not been able to do that since I decided to finish this Jean M. Auel series for some reason. I have only read two other books as I have barreled through these.


I am also a reader of several books at once, print or audio. It seems like part of the fun of reading. :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My assumption is that, come the Revolution, some of us will be rounded up and sent to the camps in the same way Hitler rounded up Jews and other "subhumans". Some of us will be the ones to build and run the camps, their showers and ovens. Others of us will do the rounding up. Cynical? You betcha! I will be one of those who gets rounded up. Each of you can decide which group I've described that you will belong to. *And no fair opining that anyone other than yourself.*


Hopefully a gray-haired granny (which I expect to be by then) will be overlooked by the authorities! 

It's funny, but my sister shares my interest in personal narratives of the Holocaust, and we've had a few soul-searching discussion on how we would have behaved had we lived in Hitler's Germany (or Poland or Holland or anywhere else the Jewish people were being rounded up). That we would have been against his regime goes without saying--the real question is how far we would have gone to protect those he persecuted.

Sister and I basically agreed that yes, a Jewish friend who came knocking at our door would be taken in at once--it would be impossible to close the door in a face we'd known for years and years. Same for a more casual acquaintance or a stranger sent to us by a organization that we knew and trusted.

The tricky part is deciding how far we would have gone into actively seeking out resistance organizations that battled Hitler's thugs on a day-to-day basis (and were tortured and killed when caught). It's one thing to act heroically in a difficult situation that's thrust upon you--far harder to actively seek out and court danger. I really don't have the answer to this one, unfortunately.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Solomon Nortrup's book, Twelve Years A Slave, is a bit easier a read than the movie probably is to watch. I have only seen trailers for the movie and am absolutely convinced I can't take watching it. I'm no good at watching visualized violence. Northrup wrote the autobiography of his experience in 1853. The language reflects the times, and is not quite as graphic present day English, and probably not as horrifying as seeing it portrayed on a giant movie screen. *Nonetheless, it is strong stuff!!* I got the audiobook from Audible.com, and it is narrated by Louis Gossett, Jr. Even though the language is intense to read, Northrup nonetheless tells his story accurately and well. I have found listening as challenging as I can manage to accept. More would send me running out the door screaming. Here's the publisher's blurb for the audiobook:
> 
> "*Publisher's Summary*:
> In this riveting landmark autobiography which reads like a novel, Academy Award and Emmy winner Louis Gossett, Jr., masterfully transports us to 1840s New York, Washington, D.C., and Louisiana to experience the kidnapping and twelve years of bondage of Solomon Northup, a free man of color. Twelve Years a Slave, published in 1853, was an immediate bombshell in the national debate over slavery leading up to the Civil War.
> ...


You are correct, it was Stowe's book that came out prior to Northrup's. Interesting that his story supported the fiction to bolster the movement to abolish slavery and then the resurgence of 12 Years was during the civil rights movement of the 1960s. 
I wanted to see the movie in the theater, didn't get to go with my son when he went, and he was quite emphatic that it was not a movie that I wanted to see on the big screen.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hopefully a gray-haired granny (which I expect to be by then) will be overlooked by the authorities!
> 
> It's funny, but my sister shares my interest in personal narratives of the Holocaust, and we've had a few soul-searching discussion on how we would have behaved had we lived in Hitler's Germany (or Poland or Holland or anywhere else the Jewish people were being rounded up). That we would have been against his regime goes without saying--the real question is how far we would have gone to protect those he persecuted.
> 
> ...


The government has always done what they could to track and harass "subversives", they just have greater capability now just as we have greater access to their sins against us. 
Write a letter, sign a petition, write another letter...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I think I fall in Knitry's camp on the issue of domestic spying. It's easy to dismiss the matter as, here in American, 99.99% of the information the Feds collect is deemed worthless and probably discarded after a suitable interval. After all, how many active terrorists can there be operating on American soil?
> But, just as torture is less about wringing information out of suspects and more about keeping the general population in line, collecting data on people paves the way for the most horrible abuses. Luckily, we haven't seen that here and hopefully never will--but it can and does happen in other places.
> 
> Before he emmigrated, my husband was the head of a dissident group in Milosevic's Yugoslavia--something he managed to keep from his father, who was fervently pro-government. But when my future husband didn't respond to a draft notice in 1990 the authorities made a beeline for his parents' apartment and proceeded to fill them in. They knew all and told all--right down to stitches he'd taken in his head (courtesy of a bat-wielding Milosevic goon squad) that he'd passed off as a soccer accident.
> ...


Thank you for a picture of life that I've never seen outside of movies. Your husband sounds like a courageous and really smart man.

I have no doubt that this data-gathering (such an innocent-sounding phrase) can easily be put to dangerous uses. If you recall, a few years ago it was discovered that intelligence people listened in on phone calls from military personnel to their spouses in the US, recorded the sex talk, and passed it around. This is creepy, maybe, and not dangerous, but it's a small indication of what they can do when there's nothing to stop them.

Once again, you're much younger than I, and your husband has been through far worse experiences and was smart enough to just get out of there. You have a realistic idea of what can result. I'm old enough that my reality is far different. I simply can't worry about the New American Stasi, at least for myself. I probably ought to be worrying about the fate of this country but instead find myself annoyed at the way the people we trust to protect us have made a shambles of it.

I'm sitting out this dance, but I'll keep watch as you young'uns kick up your heels.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Here's hoping that it isn't quite that bad, and it is just a hope.
> The security/spying situation is certainly alarming.
> I am just bowled over by people putting forward that computers that are off the internet grid, so to speak, are being tracked or that my phone is reporting on my activity 24/7.
> People do give up this info voluntarily, if folks believe this gov't conspiracy is real then they need to become a bit less dependent on hi tech. It just makes no sense for someone who has said that they spend hours using the web to gather info and categorize it to then warn us that what she is doing is the very activity Big Brother is tracking. So stop, is my thought.
> ...


Great minds....


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for the reminder, Maid. I remember an intense discussion a few months back over who thought they could or could not sit through such a graphic and intense movie--I still feel it would be too much for me, but I'm definitely going to hunt down a copy of the book. If anyone else is interested, it can be had from Amazon for as little as four-fifty.


I once went on a first date with a guy I really liked. He took us to see the remake of "Mutiny on the Bounty" with Mel Gibson. The movie starts with graphic scene of Gibson's character getting a nasty beating below decks. The screen is filled with several worsening views of his battered face, ALL the size you'd expect on the big screen. I had to walk out. So much for the potential of whatever with my date!!:roll: :roll: :roll:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My assumption is that, come the Revolution, some of us will be rounded up and sent to the camps in the same way Hitler rounded up Jews and other "subhumans". Some of us will be the ones to build and run the camps, their showers and ovens. Others of us will do the rounding up. Cynical? You betcha! I will be one of those who gets rounded up. Each of you can decide which group I've described that you will belong to. *And no fair opining that anyone other than yourself.*


Wouldn't your place in the roundup depend on which side the Revolution is coming from?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> You are correct, it was Stowe's book that came out prior to Northrup's. Interesting that his story supported the fiction to bolster the movement to abolish slavery and then the resurgence of 12 Years was during the civil rights movement of the 1960s.
> I wanted to see the movie in the theater, didn't get to go with my son when he went, and he was quite emphatic that it was not a movie that I wanted to see on the big screen.


I'm finding the book very touching and heartrending. I think this is tied directly to the kind of polite language the book uses, and which was used in general around the time Northrup wrote his book. It's a form of English I understand, and so I understand all too well the horrific scenes he describes in a way that might seem to some people to down-play what is happening. It has brought tears to my eyes and is making a deep impression on me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hopefully a gray-haired granny (which I expect to be by then) will be overlooked by the authorities!
> 
> It's funny, but my sister shares my interest in personal narratives of the Holocaust, and we've had a few soul-searching discussion on how we would have behaved had we lived in Hitler's Germany (or Poland or Holland or anywhere else the Jewish people were being rounded up). That we would have been against his regime goes without saying--the real question is how far we would have gone to protect those he persecuted.
> 
> ...


The first time my husband and I visited Paris,in the late sixties, one of the areas we had to see was the Marais, a very old section of the city which has always had a lot of Jewish inhabitants. We got into a conversation with a Jewish woman who had lived there under the Nazi occupation. She told us that though the Jewish families had been accepted members of the community, when the round-ups began, some neighbors and supposed friends told the Nazis where to look. The woman said that when she approached her next-door neighbor, whom she had played with as a child, and asked why she was doing this, the neighbor simply shrugged and turned away.

I don't know whether any of us can predict how she'll behave under pressure, but I'm certain you and your sister wouldn't turn anyone in. I think taking someone in and hiding them is a much harder thing to do.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wouldn't your place in the roundup depend on which side the Revolution is coming from?


I'm sure it would, but am cynical enough to think that no revolution would imagine a new world with me in it. I have yet to consistently be a conformist, and I don't think that would speak well of me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hopefully a gray-haired granny (which I expect to be by then) will be overlooked by the authorities!
> 
> It's funny, but my sister shares my interest in personal narratives of the Holocaust, and we've had a few soul-searching discussion on how we would have behaved had we lived in Hitler's Germany (or Poland or Holland or anywhere else the Jewish people were being rounded up). That we would have been against his regime goes without saying--the real question is how far we would have gone to protect those he persecuted.
> 
> ...


I don't know what I would have done during WWII to protect Jews from the Holocaust. That's the kind of judgement that is so hard to make about oneself when compared to one's idealism. I hope I would have done right by the kinds of Jews you describe. Would I have risked my life to fight openly against the Holocaust? Absolutely cannot say.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's my man, Robert Reich. I love that he is blunt and uses concrete language---easy to read by the ones who don't vote in their best interests. Maybe he should add cartoons for more appeal.
> 
> http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/reich/article/The-poor-are-fast-becoming-us-5153514.php


He is the clearest writer on economics we have. I can see why you like him.

As an aside, this - "It was a cunning strategy designed to split the broad coalition that had supported the New Deal and Great Society by using the cleavers of racial prejudice and economic anxiety" - reminded me: the poet Amiri Baraka, born Eldridge Cleaver, died last week. The literary community has been mourning his loss, though I've seen nothing written about him anywhere else. He was one of those rare men not afraid to admit they were wrong.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

So, of course I got side tracked when I went looking for a bit of supporting info...

Weren't some of us just talking about this the other day?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/lego-ad-1981_n_4617704.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So, of course I got side tracked when I went looking for a bit of supporting info...
> 
> Weren't some of us just talking about this the other day?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/lego-ad-1981_n_4617704.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


Isn't it interesting that as women move into the better jobs - e.g., CEO of Yahoo - and are seriously being considered for the highest political office and are outnumbering men in law schools, along comes the advertising industry to put us in our place?

Well, now I know why I hate the color pink.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't it interesting that as women move into the better jobs - e.g., CEO of Yahoo - and are seriously being considered for the highest political office and are outnumbering men in law schools, along comes the advertising industry to put us in our place?
> 
> Well, now I know why I hate the color pink.


Thank some power or other that there are way too many of us these days who will not listen to the main stream regardless of the direction it storms in from.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So, of course I got side tracked when I went looking for a bit of supporting info...
> 
> Weren't some of us just talking about this the other day?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/lego-ad-1981_n_4617704.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


Were we?? I didn't post this, did I?

http://www.businessinsider.com/these-modern-ads-are-even-more-sexist-than-their-mad-men-era-counterparts-2012-4?op=1


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hi Knitry. Thanks for taking time to detail your thoughts on the subject. I understand and even share some of them. I do have a problem getting my mind around the sheer volume of data (on everyone?) Quite frankly, it's like conspiracy theories. I just don't see people as that focused or organized. Regardless, it's not a good thing that they have this data on everyone. Don't know how we'd ever get the worms back in the can though.
> 
> I think mostly that there are too many other topics I care deeply about. Glad we have you on our side. I'll pitch in if you need me.


Yeah, the worms in the can part if probably the biggest piece that concerns me. The infrastructure already built (all those companies getting paid billions and billions, not to mention the data storage facility in Utah, and all the other hardware and stuff....).

Well, we shall see. I just hope we can change the trajectory some. Obama gave me little hope of that Friday. Fortunately, there are Congresspeople on both sides of the aisle who also aren't satisfied.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Knitry, you already know how much I admire your knowledge about political matters, so I'm not trying to put you down, but (and, yes, it's a big - never mind) this message reminded me of one someone posted a month or two ago listing the locations of all the FEMA camps. I can't remember who it was or even whether she thought they would be used. At this time of my life, I'm more afraid that nobody will pay attention to me than that the government will collect my phone data. You're younger, and you're still interested and possibly active in Liberal politics, and maybe you should worry. As for me, my model is


Purl, I think this is the 2nd time you've referenced my age. Just how much younger do you think I am?

Also, I'm not so much worried about ME _personally_, but about this country.

However, the main thing is I just wanted you to be AWARE. Sorta keep it in the back of your mind, and maybe even some of the details. I'm not trying to even convince you, and certainly not recruit you -- just make you aware. After all, it's not like you're going to get all (or even any?) of this on the evening news.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I think I fall in Knitry's camp on the issue of domestic spying. It's easy to dismiss the matter as, *here in American, 99.99% of the information the Feds collect is deemed worthless and probably discarded after a suitable interval. *After all, how many active terrorists can there be operating on American soil?
> But, just as torture is less about wringing information out of suspects and more about keeping the general population in line, collecting data on people paves the way for the most horrible abuses. Luckily, we haven't seen that here and hopefully never will--but it can and does happen in other places.


Thanks so much for sharing more of your story.

I just wanted to point out that one of the problems is, they're NOT discarding any of the information they're collecting (though they say they are). If anything, they're busy finding new and additional ways to GET more data to store.

In fact there've been several direct quotes indicating that they want EVERYTHING the world over. Here's the first I was ablt to put my hands on:

We have learned  that information has time value, he said. The value of any piece of information is only known when you connect it to something else in a further point of time, he said.
That means, Hunt said, the agency is driven into the mode of fundamentally trying to collect everything and hang onto it forever.
http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/cia-says-it-wants-to-know-everything/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Purl, I think this is the 2nd time you've referenced my age. Just how much younger do you think I am?
> 
> Also, I'm not so much worried about ME _personally_, but about this country.
> 
> However, the main thing is I just wanted you to be AWARE. Sorta keep it in the back of your mind, and maybe even some of the details. I'm not trying to even convince you, and certainly not recruit you -- just make you aware. After all, it's not like you're going to get all (or even any?) of this on the evening news.


I'm of pre-World War II vintage (as are most well-crafted items). If you're even in your 50's, I'm old enough to be your mom. But I'm led by your energy. You seem to have a lot of it.

I know you only want to warn us, but just knowing the NSA is watching over us is warning enough.

Seriously, I'm glad someone around here is paying a lot of attention to all this, if not for my sake then for the sakes of - yes, again - younger readers. Just don't waste time trying to convince us oldies; we're convinced but aren't planning to do anything about it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So, of course I got side tracked when I went looking for a bit of supporting info...
> 
> Weren't some of us just talking about this the other day?
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/17/lego-ad-1981_n_4617704.html?utm_hp_ref=mostpopular


Once again the NYTimes has something relevant:

*Google, Tell Me. Is My Son a Genius?*

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/opinion/sunday/google-tell-me-is-my-son-a-genius.html?ref=international&_r=0

I wanted to send the charts but couldn't do it without a manual. But they're worth seeing.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm of pre-World War II vintage (as are most well-crafted items). If you're even in your 50's, I'm old enough to be your mom. But I'm led by your energy. You seem to have a lot of it.
> 
> I know you only want to warn us, but just knowing the NSA is watching over us is warning enough.
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Once again the NYTimes has something relevant:
> 
> *Google, Tell Me. Is My Son a Genius?*
> 
> ...


I don't know about anybody's son being a genius, this article and one highlighted above about soaring costs for medical tx did convince me that many adults are too malleable and are pretty darned stupid.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm a baby boomer. I think, when it comes to some subjects, our ages say a lot about how we approach them, and maybe even a little bit about what we might tend to believe. Our age certainly gives an idea of what national and worldwide events we observed when the actually happened. I confess I am very interested in how old people are. I'm 64, very soon to be 65.


Sounds reasonable to me. I remember sitting in the dark (we had occasional blackouts) listening to FDR on the radio, and he's had a great influence on my political beliefs. The Depression, because of its effect on my parents, had some influence as well. My husband is 5 years older, and his view of politics is different. (He's also better informed about history.) We often disagree about politics, but FDR was never a god to him as he is to me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Were we?? I didn't post this, did I?
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/these-modern-ads-are-even-more-sexist-than-their-mad-men-era-counterparts-2012-4?op=1


We were, but nothing this blatant turned up. Geez!


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Nicine counsel, yup, they needed to "approve" what went into "The Bible". Before it was a bunch of different books that people read and studied from. But they grouped all these different writings (probably some never intended to be kept and idolized for hundreds of years) into the one book. Then they declared all the other ones heretical. Some did survive and you can still find some, although it may be missing in parts, they are the gnostic gospels. The very little I have actual read (I bought a gnostic bible years ago, but it reads like the Bible so it needs to be the one thing I focus on at the time and as a mom that doesn't happen often, lol) is very interesting.


Thanks -- that's exactly what I was referring to.

Boy, my memory is the pits lately!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Thanks -- that's exactly what I was referring to.
> 
> Boy, my memory is the pits lately!


Yes indeed, start reading the gnostic gospels online, see what the watchers make of that!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes indeed, start reading the gnostic gospels online, see what the watchers make of that!


That sounds like fun.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> The security/spying situation is certainly alarming.
> I am just bowled over by people putting forward that computers that are off the internet grid, so to speak, are being tracked or that my phone is reporting on my activity 24/7.
> People do give up this info voluntarily, if folks believe this gov't conspiracy is real then they need to become a bit less dependent on hi tech. It just makes no sense for someone who has said that they spend hours using the web to gather info and categorize it to then warn us that what she is doing is the very activity Big Brother is tracking. So stop, is my thought.
> 
> ...


Did you mean that to be insulting? Because I found it pretty offensive, and ridiculously off-the-mark in terms of what my concerns actually are -- and even in terms of what the appropriate solutions might be.

To the extent I am concerned about myself only, it's far too late to shut up given how long and vociferous my presence online has been, but even way beyond that, shutting down one's dissenting activities -- stifling oneself -- because of government spying is PRECISELY the wrong approach, and exactly what they would want to boot. Somewhere I ran across a list of about 70 words (maybe more) that serve as triggers for government spying filtering algorithms. Clearly, I thought, the best thing to do would be for EVERYONE to include all those words in all their emails all the time, also forum posts, etc.

Were I trying to recruit, I'm actually smart enough to know that KP would be a lousy venue. But I'm not. Excite interest, perhaps, but not necessarily "excite activists." My primary goal, as already stated, was to make those who bother to read my post AWARE. What they do with that awareness is entirely up to them, whether it's find out more, get even more active than that, or do absolutely nothing is not my concern. Others may assume the role of political organizing, not me. I'm a chronicler.

But I don't think I ought to be insulted for my efforts on a fairly wide-reaching political thread.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm of pre-World War II vintage (as are most well-crafted items). If you're even in your 50's, I'm old enough to be your mom. But I'm led by your energy. You seem to have a lot of it.
> 
> I know you only want to warn us, but just knowing the NSA is watching over us is warning enough.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The Restoration? There were truly wonderful - clever and funny and risque - plays written then.


Yes, exactly. That's what I remember as well, though I don't remember any particular titles. And when I googled Restoration I came up with a dreary lot of stuff ... ptooey. Restoration Comedies was more fruitful, but still left me without anything I recognized.

What I do remember is extremely witty repartee, lots of mistaken identities leading to high hilarity, and the like. I do remember Ben Johnson but he was by no means my favorite.

Another class I really enjoyed was Chaucer. We read the original -- I don't know if that's typical or not. One of the things I most enjoyed, since I am also fascinated by linguistics, was seeing the real (dare I say gutteral??) Germanic heart of English tempered by its recent Norman influence. Remarkable stuff.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> Did you mean that to be insulting? Because I found it pretty offensive, and ridiculously off-the-mark in terms of what my concerns actually are -- and even in terms of what the appropriate solutions might be.
> 
> To the extent I am concerned about myself only, it's far too late to shut up given how long and vociferous my presence online has been, but even way beyond that, shutting down one's dissenting activities -- stifling oneself -- because of government spying is PRECISELY the wrong approach, and exactly what they would want to boot. Somewhere I ran across a list of about 70 words (maybe more) that serve as triggers for government spying filtering algorithms. Clearly, I thought, the best thing to do would be for EVERYONE to include all those words in all their emails all the time, also forum posts, etc.
> 
> ...


It is a statement of my thoughts, if you choose to be insulted because people see your activiities differently than you do, there is not much to be done about that, honestly. 
I found your statements when nobody reacted with screaming alarm concerning your assertions a bit offensive myself. 
I thought that we had agreed to disagree about certain subjects. 
If you are a chronicler only, with no agenda, then it seems odd that you would become offended by any response to your info gathering, it would not be personal and there would be no reason to be insulted.
Nowhere did I suggest that you shut up, I just will do as I always do when so many links overwhelm me. I will bypass them. 
Similar to your query about whether you had posted that article on ads, I couldn't respond to you because I had no idea whether you had or not.
I am not interested in negative energy. If that is what you have to bring to the table today, sit at someone else's table, OK?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I was born in 1948. NOW I understand why my disdain for Swing was anathema to you. LOL. So just how vintage are you, Purl??
> 
> My energy is almost entirely in my head, always has been. That's where I live, to the detriment often (and increasingly) of the rest of me.
> 
> I disagree entirely on the activism of older citizens. You and your husband may not be politically active, but I know of MANY my age and older who are very politically engaged.


Go 'way, kid, ya bodder me!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I was born in 1949. I was born and raised in a university town that has seen and continues to see political and other forms of activism on a very large scale. And the activists aren't all young people. If someone is old enough to understand issues and form complex responses, the ones who want to be activists ARE activists. I consider myself very lucky to be exposed to so much information about the world outside my front door.

At the same time, I'm old enough to know that I'm unlikely to live for another 64 years, much as I wish I could. If I'm very,very lucky I might live to see 95 as I have a large number of relatives who have lived that long. The other thing I'm old enough to have learned is that I have to choose my battles, and prioritize what I care about in a way I didn't and couldn't 20 or even 10 years ago.

I'm in good health other than the effects of ordinary wear and tear from 64 years of a busy and physically active life. Still, after I take care of everything I have to take care of, including my 85 year old mother, I have a noticeably limited amount of excess energy and free time. 

Mostly I leave political activism to people who are of an age to be my children and adult grandchildren. Family, friends, personally interesting intellectual subjects, my intensely personal religious and spiritual life, writing poetry, a little daydreaming, and a short list of crafts pretty much claim all of the time I have to do as I please with. 

I'm glad there seems to be no end of people who include a great deal of activism of one kind or another in their lives. If I ever had a torch to pass, I've passed it on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Yes, exactly. That's what I remember as well, though I don't remember any particular titles. And when I googled Restoration I came up with a dreary lot of stuff ... ptooey. Restoration Comedies was more fruitful, but still left me without anything I recognized.
> 
> What I do remember is extremely witty repartee, lots of mistaken identities leading to high hilarity, and the like. I do remember Ben Johnson but he was by no means my favorite.
> 
> Another class I really enjoyed was Chaucer. We read the original -- I don't know if that's typical or not. One of the things I most enjoyed, since I am also fascinated by linguistics, was seeing the real (dare I say gutteral??) Germanic heart of English tempered by its recent Norman influence. Remarkable stuff.


For an English class, Chaucer would typically be read in the original, which is close to modern English but distant enough so that its roots are showing.

I recently read Ben Jonson's The Alchemist, which gets really laugh-out-loud funny toward the end.

Best Restoration play I remember reading was _The Way of the World_ by Congreve. The double entendres whip by at the speed of light. I think I'll give it a rereading soon. (It has a couple in it similar to Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado.) Sheridan's _The Rivals_ gets performed here every once in a while; so does _School for Scandal_. These should be amusing enough for you.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I was born in 1949. I was born and raised in a university town that has seen and continues to see political and other forms of activism on a very large scale. And the activists aren't all young people. If someone is old enough to understand issues and form complex responses, the ones who want to be activists ARE activists. I consider myself very lucky to be exposed to so much information about the world outside my front door.
> 
> At the same time, I'm old enough to know that I'm unlikely to live for another 64 years, much as I wish I could. If I'm very,very lucky I might live to see 95 as I have a large number of relatives who have lived that long. The other thing I'm old enough to have learned is that I have to choose my battles, and prioritize what I care about in a way I didn't and couldn't 20 or even 10 years ago.
> 
> ...


That was pretty much what I thought that some have been saying with the "pick your battles" line for at least a week. 
In another lifetime I was taught that there is a formula for every letter written to a legislator there are number of constituents who hold the same opinion. It is one of the reasons that letter writing campaigns were successful in the past and why our elected representatives have been forced to switch to emails and petitions, that is the voice of the people. 
I guess I will go knit and listen to TED, this is supposed to be fun.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This is one of the effects our education system has on bright kids: by insisting that teachers teach specific books that they don't really understand, it transmits a negative attitude to children, which can last forever. Better to take the kids to see the play or a movie version and leave the reading for college. I have to admit that I liked Macbeth and Julius Caesar when I read them in high school, but my English teacher then had earlier taught theater at Fisk.


See I understood it. I am someone that finds symbolism in things and loves looking for not-so-mainstream interpretations. But the curriculum that I had was very cut and dry, this is the only way that it can be interpreted (not surprising when it was a religious fundamentalist curriculum that didn't allow for "grey" in life either.). I've tried reading Shakespeare since then but just haven't enjoyed it.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for the reminder, Maid. I remember an intense discussion a few months back over who thought they could or could not sit through such a graphic and intense movie--I still feel it would be too much for me, but I'm definitely going to hunt down a copy of the book. If anyone else is interested, it can be had from Amazon for as little as four-fifty.


Barnes and noble has the ebook for free. I haven't started reading it yet, but I'm thinking of seeing if my 12 year old will read it with me and we can discuss it. He's always been more socially minded. In kindergarten he was looking over my shoulder and saw a charity for school things for the "army guys" to handout to kids in Afghanistan. He wanted to do it (no I didn't really prompt him either). So in kindergarten he, and the rest of the family since he couldn't do it all himself, collected things and asked friends and family for the things too. Then we packaged them all up and sent them over. I have a picture somewhere of him doing this.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I have been trying to clear out my "watched topics", can anyone guess who posted this to me?

Pinko commie atheist marxist lib spewer. Patriot bully.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hopefully a gray-haired granny (which I expect to be by then) will be overlooked by the authorities!
> 
> It's funny, but my sister shares my interest in personal narratives of the Holocaust, and we've had a few soul-searching discussion on how we would have behaved had we lived in Hitler's Germany (or Poland or Holland or anywhere else the Jewish people were being rounded up). That we would have been against his regime goes without saying--the real question is how far we would have gone to protect those he persecuted.
> 
> ...


I've thought about this too. In fact I had a slightly different conversation with my son. When the underground railroad exhibit came to town we went and saw it. I asked him what he would do if an exscaped slave came to his door and of course he said he would help, even if he ended up in jail. Then I questioned him further asking him that if he knew that his family would suffer too what would he do. He didn't have an answer. It's much harder when you realize your family may suffer for your beliefs too.

I don't think anybody can really know until they are in that situation. A lot of people say they would help, but I find it really doubtful they would when in our life something small happens with a conflict and they won't go against the flow. But I could be very wrong. I do hope I would be one to tell the nazis to f'off.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Sounds reasonable to me. I remember sitting in the dark (we had occasional blackouts) listening to FDR on the radio, and he's had a great influence on my political beliefs. The Depression, because of its effect on my parents, had some influence as well. My husband is 5 years older, and his view of politics is different. (He's also better informed about history.) We often disagree about politics, but FDR was never a god to him as he is to me.


I was six years old when the first TV we had rolled into the living room. I don't remember ever listening to the radio in the evening. 
That seems sad, it was the first half of the Eisenhower Administration, maybe that's why.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> I've thought about this too. In fact I had a slightly different conversation with my son. When the underground railroad exhibit came to town we went and saw it. I asked him what he would do if an exscaped slave came to his door and of course he said he would help, even if he ended up in jail. Then I questioned him further asking him that if he knew that his family would suffer too what would he do. He didn't have an answer. It's much harder when you realize your family may suffer for your beliefs too.
> 
> I don't think anybody can really know until they are in that situation. A lot of people say they would help, but I find it really doubtful they would when in our life something small happens with a conflict and they won't go against the flow. But I could be very wrong. I do hope I would be one to tell the nazis to f'off.


It would be a difficult decision when a person knows that the people in power know all and are willing to do anything to influence people's behavior. I think it is quite interesting that there are those in Europe who are trying to prepare substitutes to systems owned by US corporations so that rather than having to say F off those places being hacked by the US gov't can just be sidelined. 
Can't it sometimes be more effective to work around the power than to stand in open defiance?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dickens is wonderful. What about Mark Twain?



Janet Cooke said:


> Uncle Tom's Cabin might not be a bad idea especially in conjunction with one of the memoirs. UTC actually pushed the 12 Years book out of the limelight when it was published just a bit later.
> I did have fun investigating some books on GoodReads last night.
> A couple of them caught my eye.
> There was Flat Broke with Children by Sharon Hays, I Love Yous are for White People also looks pretty interesting. That one was written by Lac Su, it is an immigration story.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Fuggertaboutit! I'll take a nap tomorrow if I need to.



Janet Cooke said:


> I think, My Dear, it is called insomnia. I am sorry you are suffering. I am glad that you are apparently staying away from all those stupid sleep meds, though.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I think I fall in Knitry's camp on the issue of domestic spying. It's easy to dismiss the matter as, here in American, 99.99% of the information the Feds collect is deemed worthless and probably discarded after a suitable interval. After all, how many active terrorists can there be operating on American soil?
> But, just as torture is less about wringing information out of suspects and more about keeping the general population in line, collecting data on people paves the way for the most horrible abuses. Luckily, we haven't seen that here and hopefully never will--but it can and does happen in other places.
> 
> Before he emmigrated, my husband was the head of a dissident group in Milosevic's Yugoslavia--something he managed to keep from his father, who was fervently pro-government. But when my future husband didn't respond to a draft notice in 1990 the authorities made a beeline for his parents' apartment and proceeded to fill them in. They knew all and told all--right down to stitches he'd taken in his head (courtesy of a bat-wielding Milosevic goon squad) that he'd passed off as a soccer accident.
> ...


Horrors! So glad your husband is safe now. (We hope.)


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Dickens is wonderful. What about Mark Twain?


That may be a good idea, I have read the typical childhood Twain. That was a long time ago.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It would be a difficult decision when a person knows that the people in power know all and are willing to do anything to influence people's behavior. I think it is quite interesting that there are those in Europe who are trying to prepare substitutes to systems owned by US corporations so that rather than having to say F off those places being hacked by the US gov't can just be sidelined.
> Can't it sometimes be more effective to work around the power than to stand in open defiance?


Yes, it CAN be, but I believe you need all types. You need those who work around the power, but they need a "smoke screen". When people I institute a drastic things, like the nazis, they EXPECT opposition. If they don't get open opposition then they will look further for the opposition, and it will lead them to those who are working around the power. So by having those in outspoken opposition it gives then the "need" of opposition and when they are busy fighting it the others can work quietly around the power and it will sneak up on them. It's one of he strategies of taking the "bad guys" down.

Personally I think diversity in methods can be a good thing, just Luke diversity in causes can be a good thing. With all this talk of government spying and why everybody should be concerned, what I find missing is the equal importance of other causes. Yes, we need those who will push back against government intrusion, but we also need those who will fight against government violence, or government heartlessness, ect. It may seem to be more logical to fight each battle one at a time. Yes it will give a united front if everyone came together, but it would also give the government the chance to put their united front as well. By separating and keeping the different sections of the government busy fighting different groups, it gives the citizens a much better chance of actually raising their group in numbers and influence against the section of the government. So having many different activist groups in a good thing and not everybody needs to be a worked up about everything to the same degree.

Oh well, that's just my two cents.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have been trying to clear out my "watched topics", can anyone guess who posted this to me?
> 
> Pinko commie atheist marxist lib spewer. Patriot bully.


Someone really posted this to you? Publicly or in a PM? If this is a quiz, I'd guess Knitcrazy.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

So what do you all think about the net neutrality thing?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm 65 now. I agree our times shape us, but I wonder about the long-haired radicals of my youth turned Republicans of today. What hoppened?



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm a baby boomer. I think, when it comes to some subjects, our ages say a lot about how we approach them, and maybe even a little bit about what we might tend to believe. Our age certainly gives an idea of what national and worldwide events we observed when the actually happened. I confess I am very interested in how old people are. I'm 64, very soon to be 65.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I respect your viewpoint and your information. Thanks so much for taking time.



Knitry said:


> Did you mean that to be insulting? Because I found it pretty offensive, and ridiculously off-the-mark in terms of what my concerns actually are -- and even in terms of what the appropriate solutions might be.
> 
> To the extent I am concerned about myself only, it's far too late to shut up given how long and vociferous my presence online has been, but even way beyond that, shutting down one's dissenting activities -- stifling oneself -- because of government spying is PRECISELY the wrong approach, and exactly what they would want to boot. Somewhere I ran across a list of about 70 words (maybe more) that serve as triggers for government spying filtering algorithms. Clearly, I thought, the best thing to do would be for EVERYONE to include all those words in all their emails all the time, also forum posts, etc.
> 
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Someone really posted this to you? Publicly or in a PM? If this is a quiz, I'd guess Knitcrazy.


Archie Bunker, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How interesting! We were born the same year and I loved reading Chaucer in the original too. You seem inclined to do more research than I.



Knitry said:


> Yes, exactly. That's what I remember as well, though I don't remember any particular titles. And when I googled Restoration I came up with a dreary lot of stuff ... ptooey. Restoration Comedies was more fruitful, but still left me without anything I recognized.
> 
> What I do remember is extremely witty repartee, lots of mistaken identities leading to high hilarity, and the like. I do remember Ben Johnson but he was by no means my favorite.
> 
> Another class I really enjoyed was Chaucer. We read the original -- I don't know if that's typical or not. One of the things I most enjoyed, since I am also fascinated by linguistics, was seeing the real (dare I say gutteral??) Germanic heart of English tempered by its recent Norman influence. Remarkable stuff.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lordy, I hope it was one of the usual suspects: KPG, lovethelake, solowey, joeysomma etc. I shiver to think it's someone I don't know. Odd, I don't get PM's or watched topics like this. And I would think I attract them as much as anyone.



Janet Cooke said:


> I have been trying to clear out my "watched topics", can anyone guess who posted this to me?
> 
> Pinko commie atheist marxist lib spewer. Patriot bully.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think he ages well, and attracts cynical comedians.



Janet Cooke said:


> That may be a good idea, I have read the typical childhood Twain. That was a long time ago.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm not sure what you mean.



Lkholcomb said:


> So what do you all think about the net neutrality thing?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Horrors! So glad your husband is safe now. (We hope.)


Happily, yes--things have changed for the better in the past twenty years: Milosevic was ousted, DH evaded charges of draft dodging by paying a hefty fine/bribe, and my FIL forgave all after we produced a first-born son.
I often tell my husband that he should record his experiences. Yugoslavia seemed as solid as could be when he was a young--who'd have dreamed that a ten year-old boy in a Pioneer scarf would, in less than a decade, be rowing for his life across the Danube? It would make a great political thriller, I agree--except that too many former Yugoslavs went through the same and worse. That area of the world turned into a virtual killing field when the country broke apart. Absolute hell.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Someone really posted this to you? Publicly or in a PM? If this is a quiz, I'd guess Knitcrazy.


LOL, that would have been a good guess. 
Except that...

jelun2 wrote:
My problem with the "under God" insertion is that it doesn't mean a monotheistic God which from some perspectives is bad enough. It means, at least to many folks, a God that only the majority "owns". 
On one thread recently, a poster stated that those who did not worship her God should not be allowed to come to the US to live. (paraphrasing here) 
People actually agreed with her. This is the type of thing that makes me fear for our nation. It isn't disagreements about policy or how money is spent. The issue that strikes fear in my heart is the "it's my way or the highway of so many who live here".

Oh, I see I am on Holiday Trees. It was probably on this thread that the woman said it. Very few called her on it. 
But hey, I am the troublemaker because I love the inclusiveness symbolized by the Statue of Liberty and not the hate expressed by those who wrap themselves in false patriotism.
Pinko commie atheist marxist lib spewer. Patriot bully.

Without doubt cats are intellectuals who have been, by some mysterious decree of
Providence, deprived of the comfort of the word. - Dame Rebecca West

I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. -- Susan B. Anthony

It was from a little thread called Holiday Trees and Ben Stein. 
Did I recommend that to you?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> So what do you all think about the net neutrality thing?


I think that the fears that the internet will turn into cable TV and access will be limited are probably valid.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is a statement of my thoughts, if you choose to be insulted because people see your activiities differently than you do, there is not much to be done about that, honestly.
> I found your statements when nobody reacted with screaming alarm concerning your assertions a bit offensive myself.
> I thought that we had agreed to disagree about certain subjects.
> If you are a chronicler only, with no agenda, then it seems odd that you would become offended by any response to your info gathering, it would not be personal and there would be no reason to be insulted.
> ...


I wonder to myself: are you being disingenuous, or is that really the way you see it? (Rhetorical question. )

It's not that you see my activities differently, it's that you chose to couch your disagreement in a derogatory and demeaning way. You're certainly free to do that, just as I'm free to call you on it.

If you're not interested in negative energy, then you might want to clean up some of your own. (See how that works -- raising issues or couching them in an inflammatory way?)

So yeah, we can agree to disagree, but I don't agree to sit still for needless, gratuitous insults.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Go 'way, kid, ya bodder me!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> Yes, it CAN be, but I believe you need all types. You need those who work around the power, but they need a "smoke screen". When people I institute a drastic things, like the nazis, they EXPECT opposition. If they don't get open opposition then they will look further for the opposition, and it will lead them to those who are working around the power. So by having those in outspoken opposition it gives then the "need" of opposition and when they are busy fighting it the others can work quietly around the power and it will sneak up on them. It's one of he strategies of taking the "bad guys" down.
> 
> Personally I think diversity in methods can be a good thing, just Luke diversity in causes can be a good thing. With all this talk of government spying and why everybody should be concerned, what I find missing is the equal importance of other causes. Yes, we need those who will push back against government intrusion, but we also need those who will fight against government violence, or government heartlessness, ect. It may seem to be more logical to fight each battle one at a time. Yes it will give a united front if everyone came together, but it would also give the government the chance to put their united front as well. By separating and keeping the different sections of the government busy fighting different groups, it gives the citizens a much better chance of actually raising their group in numbers and influence against the section of the government. So having many different activist groups in a good thing and not everybody needs to be a worked up about everything to the same degree.
> 
> Oh well, that's just my two cents.


Excellent point.(s)


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have been trying to clear out my "watched topics", can anyone guess who posted this to me?
> Pinko commie atheist marxist lib spewer. Patriot bully.


My best guess is that it sounds far worse than something KPG would say, but I don't know who that might be. Haven't read any of Knitcrazy's posts.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> For an English class, Chaucer would typically be read in the original, which is close to modern English but distant enough so that its roots are showing.
> 
> I recently read Ben Jonson's The Alchemist, which gets really laugh-out-loud funny toward the end.
> 
> Best Restoration play I remember reading was _The Way of the World_ by Congreve. The double entendres whip by at the speed of light. I think I'll give it a rereading soon. (It has a couple in it similar to Beatrice and Benedick in Much Ado.) Sheridan's _The Rivals_ gets performed here every once in a while; so does _School for Scandal_. These should be amusing enough for you.


_SCHOOL FOR SCANDAL!_ -- at last a familiar title, though Sheridan and _The Way of the World_ seems to have a ring of familiarity about them.

And yes indeed, I do remember the wild attraction to double entendres.

Thanks for the recommendations. I might check them out again. And what fun to finally be able to put SOME of that back in my brain.

:XD:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I wonder to myself: are you being disingenuous, or is that really the way you see it? (Rhetorical question. )
> 
> It's not that you see my activities differently, it's that you chose to couch your disagreement in a derogatory and demeaning way. You're certainly free to do that, just as I'm free to call you on it.
> 
> ...


You can wonder, rhetorically, about anything you want. 
Just as I can wonder why you choose to carry this discussion out in public and chose to thank me for supporting you in your contretemps with MIB in private. 
Basically, I say, if you want to really wonder why not wonder if I am not a government plant tracking your links and posts?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> So what do you all think about the net neutrality thing?


I'm personally a little hysterical, but sort of waiting to see what happens. I'm hoping someone will kick that Powell kid in the arse to wake him up and make him do what's needed.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> I respect your viewpoint and your information. Thanks so much for taking time.


Thank you, damemary -- and if I run across any petitions and stuff, you'll be the first to know. Scratch that You'll be the ONLY one to know.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Lordy, I hope it was one of the usual suspects: KPG, lovethelake, solowey, joeysomma etc.


Apparently not--and I admit I'm surprised as Jokim and KC have been having a very spirited discussion about what should be done with American "socialists"

Deportation seems to be their solution. Even more surprising. Aren't these the same folks who bemoan the "fact" (their fact and no one else's, of course) that ultra-conservatives are being hustled off to concentration camps by the Feds? If that's as dreadful as they seem to think, why are they so eager to do it to the lefties?


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> How interesting! We were born the same year and I loved reading Chaucer in the original too. You seem inclined to do more research than I.


Yes, I'm a bit of a researcher, but a strange one: only for things I'm interested in. IOW, you probably wouldn't be able to pay me to do research on a subject of little or no interest. Blech.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Happily, yes--things have changed for the better in the past twenty years: Milosevic was ousted, DH evaded charges of draft dodging by paying a hefty fine/bribe, and my FIL forgave all after we produced a first-born son.
> I often tell my husband that he should record his experiences. *Yugoslavia seemed as solid as could be when he was a young--who'd have dreamed that a ten year-old boy in a Pioneer scarf would, in less than a decade, be rowing for his life across the Danube?* It would make a great political thriller, I agree--except that too many former Yugoslavs went through the same and worse. That area of the world turned into a virtual killing field when the country broke apart. Absolute hell.


What a horrifying experience it must have been. He was just 20?? Wow. I also find it rather terrifying to contemplate how quickly and completely things can go tragically and forever wrong.

I salute both of you.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Dickens is wonderful. What about Mark Twain?


Twain is an interesting writer. In his old age he became very bitter. Try Mysterious Stranger and Voyage of the Damned. I've recommended The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson many times around here. Twain had his own prejudices, some of which were of his time and some not. Rereading Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn is pretty good. Roughing It sticks in my head because he describes the Lake Tahoe of the early 1860s and it was much the same in the early 1960s in terms of the condition of the lake itself. The Innocents Abroad, Letters from the Earth, 1601, and many of the short stories can keep a person happily entertained. His autobiography ain't so bad either.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You can wonder, rhetorically, about anything you want.
> Just as I can wonder why you choose to carry this discussion out in public and chose to thank me for supporting you in your contretemps with MIB in private.
> Basically, I say, if you want to really wonder why not wonder if I am not a government plant tracking your links and posts?


You keep wanting to paint me as paranoid, a little or a lot. I'm not. But if it amuses you, by all means be my guest.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm 65 now. I agree our times shape us, but I wonder about the long-haired radicals of my youth turned Republicans of today. What hoppened?


The hair and the radicalism were passing fads. They returned to their default settings.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Happily, yes--things have changed for the better in the past twenty years: Milosevic was ousted, DH evaded charges of draft dodging by paying a hefty fine/bribe, and my FIL forgave all after we produced a first-born son.
> I often tell my husband that he should record his experiences. Yugoslavia seemed as solid as could be when he was a young--who'd have dreamed that a ten year-old boy in a Pioneer scarf would, in less than a decade, be rowing for his life across the Danube? It would make a great political thriller, I agree--except that too many former Yugoslavs went through the same and worse. That area of the world turned into a virtual killing field when the country broke apart. Absolute hell.


And if I recall you have been to visit?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> And if I recall you have been to visit?


Yes, we make it over about every two years--usually a flight directly to Budapest to visit his sister, then a drive across the border into Serbia.
It's a tough place to visit, frankly. There's still a lot of damage from the NATO bombings, and Americans are not looked upon very favorably by a number of folks (although my husband's family has never been anything but gracious to me). Then too there's a lot of blatant discrimination against Gypsies and other minorities--a lot of them live in little shantytowns on the outskirts of Belgrade. All that's explained away by the family by their insistence that Gypsies _choose_ to live that way, and that if you look closely you'll see satellite dishes sprouting from the roofs of those wretched little hovels. Well, I never saw any--the people there just look miserable.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, we make it over about every two years--usually a flight directly to Budapest to visit his sister, then a drive across the border into Serbia.
> It's a tough place to visit, frankly. There's still a lot of damage from the NATO bombings, and Americans are not looked upon very favorably by a number of folks (although my husband's family has never been anything but gracious to me). Then too there's a lot of blatant discrimination against Gypsies and other minorities--a lot of them live in little shantytowns on the outskirts of Belgrade. All that's explained away by the family by their insistence that Gypsies _choose_ to live that way, and that if you look closely you'll see satellite dishes sprouting from the roofs of those wretched little hovels. Well, I never saw any--the people there just look miserable.


Funny that every country seems to have minorities who "choose' to live that way.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Funny that every country seems to have minorities who "choose' to live that way.


I know--bigotry and racism are universal, unfortunately.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Lordy, I hope it was one of the usual suspects: KPG, lovethelake, solowey, joeysomma etc. I shiver to think it's someone I don't know. Odd, I don't get PM's or watched topics like this. And I would think I attract them as much as anyone.


LOL, for the most part I get very pleasant PMs from nice, gentle souls. 
The topic, as I said somewhere was Holiday Trees and Ben Stein. The Empress actually quite rapidly shut down that thread with her joke. I thought it was hilarious.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, for the most part I get very pleasant PMs from nice, gentle souls.
> The topic, as I said somewhere was Holiday Trees and Ben Stein. The Empress actually quite rapidly shut down that thread with her joke. I thought it was hilarious.


Yes, it was--but the topic itself set my teeth on edge. When it was duly pointed out that Ben Stein never made those comments, the general reaction was "So what? Close enough." Argh!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it was--but the topic itself set my teeth on edge. When it was duly pointed out that Ben Stein never said those things, the general reaction was "So what? Close enough." Argh!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

It really annoys me that Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is almost totally ignored in the business world. 
For me the day symbolizes the rise of so much recognition of civil rights for so many folks. 
I would like to see that name changed to Civil Rights Day, I cannot see that happening until after there is nobody left who was alive for his "I have a Dream" speech. 
Oh well, another hope dashed.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It really annoys me that Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is almost totally ignored in the business world.
> For me the day symbolizes the rise of so much recognition of civil rights for so many folks.
> I would like to see that name changed to Civil Rights Day, I cannot see that happening until after there is nobody left who was alive for his "I have a Dream" speech.
> Oh well, another hope dashed.


Outside of Christmas and Thanksgiving, most businesses "ignore" ignore holidays in general (outside of advertising specials). If they didn't they'd be losing work days all through the year.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Apparently not--and I admit I'm surprised as Jokim and KC have been having a very spirited discussion about what should be done with American "socialists"
> 
> Deportation seems to be their solution. Even more surprising. Aren't these the same folks who bemoan the "fact" (their fact and no one else's, of course) that ultra-conservatives are being hustled off to concentration camps by the Feds? If that's as dreadful as they seem to think, why are they so eager to do it to the lefties?


Obviously, they're eager to do it to the lefties because they think it's dreadful.

Do they seriously believe that's going on? Do they know people who know people picked up by the FBI and sent to camps? The way they knew doctors who were forced to retire by the ACA (though since it's gone into effect there's been no mention of those out-of-work doctors). Or is it simply the word of some paranoid blogger that they believe is true?

Here we are discussing American and English literature, and there they are living in a fiction.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I'm personally a little hysterical, but sort of waiting to see what happens. I'm hoping someone will kick that Powell kid in the arse to wake him up and make him do what's needed.


His daddy ought to be the one to kick him.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Outside of Christmas and Thanksgiving, most businesses "ignore" ignore holidays in general (outside of advertising specials). If they didn't they'd be losing work days all through the year.


 I was going by who has days off in my immediate family. They all have pretty liberal time off. That's hospital administration, manufacturing, distribution, and publishing. 
I thought that the reason that there were Presidents' Day sales and Memorial Day sales were because lots of people were out of work.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Twain is an interesting writer. In his old age he became very bitter. Try Mysterious Stranger and Voyage of the Damned. I've recommended The Tragedy of Pudd'nhead Wilson many times around here. Twain had his own prejudices, some of which were of his time and some not. Rereading Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn is pretty good. Roughing It sticks in my head because he describes the Lake Tahoe of the early 1860s and it was much the same in the early 1960s in terms of the condition of the lake itself. The Innocents Abroad, Letters from the Earth, 1601, and many of the short stories can keep a person happily entertained. His autobiography ain't so bad either.


Thanks for this reading list. You once told me about Letters from the Earth, and at the time I knew I wanted to read it, but I forgot (as I forget about so many things). I have a week for freely chosen reading - I'll look for it tom'w.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm not sure what you mean.


There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


I guess the most immediate question is if the FCC doesn't have the authority to regulate broadband internet access who does?


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I guess the most immediate question is if the FCC doesn't have the authority to regulate broadband internet access who does?


Well private, corporate organizations, of course *total sarcasm*


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Well private, corporate organizations, of course *total sarcasm*


And it will be the first time that big business shows us that they don't need gov't regulation, I suppose. 
Hip Hip Hooray!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, for the most part I get very pleasant PMs from nice, gentle souls.
> The topic, as I said somewhere was Holiday Trees and Ben Stein. The Empress actually quite rapidly shut down that thread with her joke. I thought it was hilarious.


Oh boy. It was me. Not Knitcrazy but just plain crazy. And I guess I said all that needed to be said.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


Which I think explains why these folks have been spending billions and billions of dollars snapping up these start ups. I am guessing it was give them greater bargaining power with providers or smaller companies. I think therefore I don't have a clue.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh boy. It was me. Not Knitcrazy but just plain crazy. And I guess I said all that needed to be said.


LOL, it was funny as hell. I suppose hell is not that funny if it actually exists.
That was one of those threads with that Karverr person, I think his wife banned him from the site.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I was going by who has days off in my immediate family. They all have pretty liberal time off. That's hospital administration, manufacturing, distribution, and publishing.
> I thought that the reason that there were Presidents' Day sales and Memorial Day sales were because lots of people were out of work.


I called a doctor's office for an appt. tomorrow and was told the office would be closed. I was surprised but also pleased.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I called a doctor's office for an appt. tomorrow and was told the office would be closed. I was surprised but also pleased.


Is everything OK?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> LOL, it was funny as hell. I suppose hell is not that funny if it actually exists.
> That was one of those threads with that Karverr person, I think his wife banned him from the site.


Heaven seems to be such a humorless place that Hell must be a lot of laughs in comparison.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Is everything OK?


Everything is never okay, but this is nothing serious. It's a followup to something done about a month ago.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Heaven seems to be such a humorless place that Hell must be a lot of laughs in comparison.


That would be a hoot!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Everything is never okay, but this is nothing serious. It's a followup to something done about a month ago.


Yeah, I hear that. I had to call to cancel a MRI that was denied. I am not sure whether to have the doc's office reword the order or go at it from a different direction.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The company from which I retired had a day of service on MLK weekend every year. They donated supplies (paint etc) and we volunteered our time to help non-profits where needed. We also had Monday off.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. I haven't had cable for many years & I've done fine without it. I resent this ruse to prevent us from using the open airways.



Lkholcomb said:


> There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yeah, I hear that. I had to call to cancel a MRI that was denied. I am not sure whether to have the doc's office reword the order or go at it from a different direction.


Wouldn't rewording be the fastest way? If that doesn't work, what else is there to try?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I was going by who has days off in my immediate family. They all have pretty liberal time off. That's hospital administration, manufacturing, distribution, and publishing.
> I thought that the reason that there were Presidents' Day sales and Memorial Day sales were because lots of people were out of work.


Well, at least it's a federal holiday--son's school is closed tomorrow, much to his delight.
I know what you mean about the business world not taking the day entirely seriously--on the other hand, I'd hate to see such an important day commercialized beyond all recognition. In my family, it's a day for talk and reflection--lots of books on the Civil Rights Movement, listening to MLK's "I have a dream" speech, plus a video I can only bear to watch once a year. It was produced by the History Channel and is beautifully done, but oh how hard it is to watch folks getting smashed with police batons, attacked by dogs, sprayed with fire hoses, etc. It absolutely makes my blood boil to see those things.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> It really annoys me that Martin Luther King, Jr. Day is almost totally ignored in the business world.
> For me the day symbolizes the rise of so much recognition of civil rights for so many folks.
> I would like to see that name changed to Civil Rights Day, I cannot see that happening until after there is nobody left who was alive for his "I have a Dream" speech.
> Oh well, another hope dashed.


While I am very grateful Martin Luther King, Jr. was born, accomplished so much and deserves to be memorialized, I would pick August 28th, the day he gave his "I Have A Dream" speech, or April 4th, the day he was most foully assassinated in 1968 to remember him with a national holiday. I lean toward April 4th as the best day to honor his life and remember the incredible shamefulness of that day.

There's been a lot of talk here about the deeply embedded racism in our society. How better to give us time to reflect on that if we memorialize King on the day racism appeared as the giant monstrosity it an be?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks for this reading list. You once told me about Letters from the Earth, and at the time I knew I wanted to read it, but I forgot (as I forget about so many things). I have a week for freely chosen reading - I'll look for it tom'w.


If you, like me, had to read James Fenimore Cooper's The Last of the Mohicans, in school, you will especially enjoy Twain's essay "On James Fenimore Cooper's Prose Style" in Letters from the Earth. I had to read The Last of the Mohicans in 8th grade. When I complained about how dense and boring it was, my father very kindly handed me his copy of Letters from the Earth opened at the first page of Twain's essay. Saved my sanity and helped me discuss Cooper's book in a fine and intellectual way that communicated my disgust with Cooper's prose style in a way that amused my English teacher. This was a good thing because I only read about 40 pages of Cooper's nonsense.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, at least it's a federal holiday--son's school is closed tomorrow, much to his delight.
> I know what you mean about the business world not taking the day entirely seriously--on the other hand, I'd hate to see such an important day commercialized beyond all recognition. In my family, it's a day for talk and reflection--lots of books on the Civil Rights Movement, listening to MLK's "I have a dream" speech, plus a video I can only bear to watch once a year. It was produced by the History Channel and is beautifully done, but oh how hard it is to watch folks getting smashed with police batons, attacked by dogs, sprayed with fire hoses, etc. It absolutely makes my blood boil to see those things.


Spike Lee made a documentary in 2001, called "4 Little Girls" about the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. The bombing took place on September 15, 1963, a mere 19 days after King's "I Have a Dream" speech. I've watched it twice. I don't think I'll ever watch it again even though I recommend that people watch it at least once.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Spike Lee made a documentary in 2001, called "4 Little Girls" about the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. The bombing took place on September 15, 1963, a mere 19 days after King's "I Have a Dream" speech. I've watched it twice. I don't think I'll ever watch it again even though I recommend that people watch it at least once.


I saw that. I was crying the whole time. I watched a documentary not long ago about the civil rights movement and the other folks in it. They had John Lewis in it, and I learned so much. I still haven't on DVD and am going to make my son watch it today.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yeah, I hear that. I had to call to cancel a MRI that was denied. I am not sure whether to have the doc's office reword the order or go at it from a different direction.


Find out the reason it was denied. Sometimes it's because the doctors office didn't give the required documentation and that's an easy fix. Otherwise you can appeal it and once it's done with the appeals process go through the attorney general. But that is a really long process so checking with the doctor's office would be easier.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Wouldn't rewording be the fastest way? If that doesn't work, what else is there to try?


I was thinking of a referral to a different doc. 
It does seem that denials are generally tied to mistaken coding, though. We'll see, at least I received notice that it would not be covered before I went for the service.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> The company from which I retired had a day of service on MLK weekend every year. They donated supplies (paint etc) and we volunteered our time to help non-profits where needed. We also had Monday off.


Yes, that is what the federal gov't has done about the observance, I think, declared it a day of service. That is a good way to balance any push that ever develops to commercialize the day. 
I did find an event going on locally. Maybe I will head down there tonight, make myself feel better about the day.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> Find out the reason it was denied. Sometimes it's because the doctors office didn't give the required documentation and that's an easy fix. Otherwise you can appeal it and once it's done with the appeals process go through the attorney general. But that is a really long process so checking with the doctor's office would be easier.


I do think that this is the case in this instance, the nurse practitioner was 3 weeks out from leave and didn't seem fully engaged.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

What I find interesting is all the hoopla over the NSA, and the deafening silence over the lack of security on the Obamacare website or the Navigators that do not have security clearances.

I don't like the NSA collecting my phone information. But since I hardly use a cell phone and when I do it is usually a very boring conversation (What do you need from the store? I am lost, help with directions........) I do not have any worries. But giving Social Security numbers, medical information, and financial statements on an unsecure website or talking to a Navigator terrifies me. So many of you are worried about cell phone snooping, but have absolutely no concern over Identity Theft.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, at least it's a federal holiday--son's school is closed tomorrow, much to his delight.
> I know what you mean about the business world not taking the day entirely seriously--on the other hand, I'd hate to see such an important day commercialized beyond all recognition. In my family, it's a day for talk and reflection--lots of books on the Civil Rights Movement, listening to MLK's "I have a dream" speech, plus a video I can only bear to watch once a year. It was produced by the History Channel and is beautifully done, but oh how hard it is to watch folks getting smashed with police batons, attacked by dogs, sprayed with fire hoses, etc. It absolutely makes my blood boil to see those things.


I really look forward to an expansion and recognition that the movement that we relate to MLK, Jr. was just the beginning of the opening of rights for those with disabilities, for those with gender issues, for those with learning differences...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What I find interesting is all the hoopla over the NSA, and the deafening silence over the lack of security on the Obamacare website or the Navigators that do not have security clearances.


I would venture to say that it's because the NSA phone-monitoring is real and the lack of security at Obamacare is a figment of your (plural) imagination.

Do you get treated only by doctors with security clearance? Do you even ask whether they're cleared? Of course not. Yet they, too, use computers for record-keeping, including credit card payments. Don't you worry about those?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


Unbridled greed strikes again. :hunf: And here I was, thinking the greedy SOBs were making tons of $$$ WITHOUT attempting to get the FCC to get rid of their net neutrality rules. Nobody needs to respond to this post to tell me how naive and stupid I was to think unbridled greed would accept a bridle, even from the FCC. I already understand the error in my thinking.  :-(


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Unbridled greed strikes again. :hunf: And here I was, thinking the greedy SOBs were making tons of $$$ WITHOUT attempting to get the FCC to get rid of their net neutrality rules. Nobody needs to respond to this post to tell me how naive and stupid I was to think unbridled greed would accept a bridle, even from the FCC. I already understand the error in my thinking.  :-(


We were all hoping, especially after the Congress buried the last devastating bill that would hurt us and help business. All I can think of is SYSOP and I know that isn't correct. 
If oversight should not be with the FCC, that is fine. Congress should have done something to expand their duties or give the job to others.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> What I find interesting is all the hoopla over the NSA, and the deafening silence over the lack of security on the Obamacare website or the Navigators that do not have security clearances.
> 
> I don't like the NSA collecting my phone information. But since I hardly use a cell phone and when I do it is usually a very boring conversation (What do you need from the store? I am lost, help with directions........) I do not have any worries. But giving Social Security numbers, medical information, and financial statements on an unsecure website or talking to a Navigator terrifies me. So many of you are worried about cell phone snooping, but have absolutely no concern over Identity Theft.


Target just gave us a good example of how an operation other than the ACA can be hacked into to snap up our personal information. I believe that even of all of the ACA websites were secure there would still be hackers who would feel obliged to meet the challenge of getting into those websites. The poorer the security of any website, the ACA included, the easier it is for someone to mine it for information they want.

The fact that the lack of security of the ACA web sites hasn't been discussed here may merely be a matter of the subject not being discussed here YET.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Unbridled greed strikes again. :hunf: And here I was, thinking the greedy SOBs were making tons of $$$ WITHOUT attempting to get the FCC to get rid of their net neutrality rules. Nobody needs to respond to this post to tell me how naive and stupid I was to think unbridled greed would accept a bridle, even from the FCC. I already understand the error in my thinking.  :-(


Would those be imperial tons or metric tons? Imperial tons are smaller.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I really look forward to an expansion and recognition that the movement that we relate to MLK, Jr. was just the beginning of the opening of rights for those with disabilities, for those with gender issues, for those with learning differences...


The Civil Rights Movement did indeed give a blueprint for many other movements that followed. Every group that undertook a movement for its rights owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to the Civil Rights Movement, IMO.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> We were all hoping, especially after the Congress buried the last devastating bill that would hurt us and help business. All I can think of is SYSOP and I know that isn't correct.
> If oversight should not be with the FCC, that is fine. Congress should have done something to expand their duties or give the job to others.


I'm not up on all the texting abbreviations. What is SYSOP (other than systems operations...)?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Spike Lee made a documentary in 2001, called "4 Little Girls" about the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing. The bombing took place on September 15, 1963, a mere 19 days after King's "I Have a Dream" speech. I've watched it twice. I don't think I'll ever watch it again even though I recommend that people watch it at least once.


It's hard, isn't it? We've been watching the History Channel's "Voices of Civil Rights"--a montage of personal interviews, newsreel clips, and historical recreations. I was riveted by the section about the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission, a group sanctioned and funded by the Mississippi legislature for the express purpose of fighting desegregation. We've been discussing modern 21st century ways of collecting data and spying on people--but that group did just fine with good old fashioned wiretaps and paid informers. Their records have only just been unsealed--they kept files on eighty-seven thousand people! The commission even made their own propaganda films. I saw a clip from one entitled "A Message From Mississippi". It painstakingly pointed out all the good things about segregation and showed lots of happy "********" who just LOVED it! Unbelievable.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Would those be imperial tons or metric tons? Imperial tons are smaller.


It has to be metric tons. No smaller tons allowed. :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Has anyone seen the statement made by the Lt. Gov. of New Jersey in response to the charges made by the Mayor of Hoboken?
LOL, she could be trying out for a spot in a play. Her emoting is over the top for normal speechifying.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The Civil Rights Movement did indeed give a blueprint for many other movements that followed. Every group that undertook a movement for its rights owes a tremendous debt of gratitude to the Civil Rights Movement, IMO.


Yes, they do. It really did lead to the realization that policies can be changed and attitudes shifted--and that people working together can move mountains.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's hard, isn't it? We've been watching the History Channel's "Voices of Civil Rights"--a montage of personal interviews, newsreel clips, and historical recreations. I was riveted by the section about the Mississippi State Sovereignty Commission, a group sanctioned and funded by the Mississippi legislature for the express purpose of fighting desegregation. We've been discussing modern 21st century ways of collecting data and spying on people--but that group did just fine with good old fashioned wiretaps and paid informers. Their records have only just been unsealed--they kept files on eighty-seven thousand people! The commission even made their own propaganda films. I saw a clip from one entitled "A Message From Mississippi". It painstakingly pointed out all the good things about segregation and showed lots of happy "********" who just LOVED it! Unbelievable.


The first time I saw "Gone with the Wind" was in a movie theatre in Santa Fe, NM. Two nuns sitting behind me remarked on how happy the "*******" in the intro to the film were and wasn't it a shame they aren't that happy nowadays (this was in 1970).


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The first time I saw "Gone with the Wind" was in a movie theatre in Santa Fe, NM. Two nuns sitting behind me remarked on how happy the "*******" in the intro to the film were and wasn't it a shame they aren't that happy nowadays (this was in 1970).


And isn't it a shame we can't all be living in a movie?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The first time I saw "Gone with the Wind" was in a movie theatre in Santa Fe, NM. Two nuns sitting behind me remarked on how happy the "*******" in the intro to the film were and wasn't it a shame they aren't that happy nowadays (this was in 1970).


What is it about nostalgia that sets all the negatives flying off into some region of the brain nobody seems to have access to?
People get the same way about "life in our childhoods" like there were no negatives before the days when the government forced men to be responsible financially for the children they wanted to leave behind, or funding for people to leave their abusive partners? and on and on... life is so much better in many ways today.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The first time I saw "Gone with the Wind" was in a movie theatre in Santa Fe, NM. Two nuns sitting behind me remarked on how happy the "*******" in the intro to the film were and wasn't it a shame they aren't that happy nowadays (this was in 1970).


It's strange, isn't it, how oppressors have to reassure themselves that the people under their boot are really pleased to be there. Seeing that bit from "The Message From Mississippi" made me wild with curiosity--I tried to find the complete version on the Internet, without success. I bet anything all existing prints were hastily shoveled into the furnaces of the Mississippi Legislative buildings (with good reason), and this is all that remains.

http://video.pbs.org/video/2365085766/


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's strange, isn't it, how oppressors have to reassure themselves that the people under their boot are really pleased to be there. Seeing that bit from "The Message From Mississippi" made me wild with curiosity--I tried to find the complete version on the Internet, without success. I bet anything all existing prints were hastily shoveled into the furnaces of the Mississippi Legislative buildings (with good reason), and this is all that remains.
> 
> http://video.pbs.org/video/2365085766/


Odd to see how nicely dressed everyone is in 1960 Mississippi.
Everything seems to turn up sooner or later. FLOTUS' connection to former slave owning families, that family I mentioned who funded the first years of Princeton and others... ah, sunshine.

Of course, it isn't just us, there is the ugly history in India and Africa, imperialism has dreadful roots.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's strange, isn't it, how oppressors have to reassure themselves that the people under their boot are really pleased to be there. Seeing that bit from "The Message From Mississippi" made me wild with curiosity--I tried to find the complete version on the Internet, without success. I bet anything all existing prints were hastily shoveled into the furnaces of the Mississippi Legislative buildings (with good reason), and this is all that remains.
> 
> http://video.pbs.org/video/2365085766/


Maybe you can find it on eBay. I think that "Fahrenheit 451" thing doesn't work there.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Odd to see how nicely dressed everyone is in 1960 Mississippi.


Oh, it was Paradise on Earth. The History Channel snip was a bit longer and showed an African-American in a suit and tie saying that, thanks to segregation, Mississippi had the lowest crime rate in the nation. *gag*


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe you can find it on eBay. I think that "Fahrenheit 451" thing doesn't work there.


Thanks for the suggestion, Maid. I'm definitely going to conduct a concentrated search for this amazing propaganda piece. If anyone turns up some clues, please let me know.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Up with The Union, hurrah!, boys, hurrah!
Up with The Union and down with The Cause
Oh, we'll rally round the flag, boys. we'll rally once again
Shouting the battle cry of "Freedom"!
Yes, we'll rally round the flag, yes, we'll rally once again
Shouting the battle cry of "Freedom"!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Has anyone seen the statement made by the Lt. Gov. of New Jersey in response to the charges made by the Mayor of Hoboken?
> LOL, she could be trying out for a spot in a play. Her emoting is over the top for normal speechifying.


I did, and she wouldn't get the part. She is the worst actor I have ever see.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, Maid. I'm definitely going to conduct a concentrated search for this amazing propaganda piece. If anyone turns up some clues, please let me know.


Do you ever use Dogpile as a search engine?
They pull together hits from several, so rather than go bing, google, yahoo... you can get them all at the same time


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh, it was Paradise on Earth. The History Channel snip was a bit longer and showed an African-American in a suit and tie saying that, thanks to segregation, Mississippi had the lowest crime rate in the nation. *gag*


I was thinking that was probably the pay for acting the part...a nice set of new clothes and ten bucks.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Odd to see how nicely dressed everyone is in 1960 Mississippi.
> Everything seems to turn up sooner or later. FLOTUS' connection to former slave owning families, that family I mentioned who funded the first years of Princeton and others... ah, sunshine.
> 
> Of course, it isn't just us, there is the ugly history in India and Africa, imperialism has dreadful roots.


I saw my first Civil Rights demonstration in 1960. The fact that all the marching ******* were nicely dressed and well-behaved convinced me they were protesting against a real injustice.They were not being hired by businesses in my home town's downtown shopping district that they qualified for. The question that popped into my mind was "How can these nice looking, well behaved people be denied what they are demonstrating for?" My answer was that it was obviously wrong to deny them what they were asking for.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I did, and she wouldn't get the part. She is the worst actor I have ever see.


Yes, her partner has the acting thing down.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I was thinking that was probably the pay for acting the part...a nice set of new clothes and ten bucks.


Why even bother with that? No doubt an order from Sheriff Buford T. Justice to show up for filming dressed in one's Sunday best would be enough.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I saw my first Civil Rights demonstration in 1960. The fact that all the marching ******* were nicely dressed and well-behaved convinced me they were protesting against a real injustice.They were not being hired by businesses in my home town's downtown shopping district that they qualified for. The question that popped into my mind was "How can these nice looking, well behaved people be denied what they are demonstrating for?" My answer was that it was obviously wrong to deny them what they were asking for.


I didn't mean to suggest that many African Americans didn't have nice clothes, a day in town working didn't call for that dress in Mississippi, though. California was a whole different place than the south, which I suppose I don't even have to say. Just erase that.
Or maybe decent, clean, Sunday outfits...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

This HAS to be one of the notable quotes of 2014.

Christie on the bridge fiasco:

So Im going to learn from this. I cant tell you yet what it is Im going to learn. But I am intent on learning from this.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I didn't mean to suggest that many African Americans didn't have nice clothes, a day in town working didn't call for that dress in Mississippi, though.


No, of course not. It's obvious that all the people in the film--both black and white--were decked out in their finest. Did you notice that little white moppet in the supermarket? Wonder how many hours it took her mother to manufacture those Shirley Temple curls exploding from her head?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, of course not. It's obvious that all the people in the film--both black and white--were decked out in their finest. Did you notice that little white moppet in the supermarket? Wonder how many hours it took her mother to manufacture those Shirley Temple curls exploding from her head?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I didn't mean to suggest that many African Americans didn't have nice clothes, a day in town working didn't call for that dress in Mississippi, though. California was a whole different place than the south, which I suppose I don't even have to say. Just erase that.
> Or maybe decent, clean, Sunday outfits...


I didn't think you were suggesting that African-Americans in Mississippi didn't have nice clothes. I was only describing something that I saw that influenced me. Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Do you ever use Dogpile as a search engine?
> They pull together hits from several, so rather than go bing, google, yahoo... you can get them all at the same time


Tried a minute ago and found several sources for my favorite shoes that are no longer made by the company that originally made them. There's going to be a couple of spare pairs in my closet pretty soon! Thanks for mentioning Dogpile. I have it bookmarked now. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Tried a minute ago and found several sources for my favorite shoes that are no longer made by the company that originally made them. There's going to be a couple of spare pairs in my closet pretty soon! Thanks for mentioning Dogpile. I have it bookmarked now. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Yes, I love it, it isn't perfect... kinda like me, it works as well as can be expected. 
LOL, maybe the NSA hasn't discovered them yet.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I didn't think you were suggesting that African-Americans in Mississippi didn't have nice clothes. I was only describing something that I saw that influenced me. Sorry for any confusion.


Confusion is a normal state around here, we would do much better to apologize when we don't need to than to assume someone is insulting us. <shrug>


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ROFL. That man has no understanding.



susanmos2000 said:


> This HAS to be one of the notable quotes of 2014.
> 
> Christie on the bridge fiasco:
> 
> So Im going to learn from this. I cant tell you yet what it is Im going to learn. But I am intent on learning from this.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> ROFL. That man has no understanding.


Perhaps he will learn to stay the heck out of Florida, did you read about the overbright soul who shot HIMSELF during a road rage incident? 
Darwin nominations, here we come.

Addendum: 8-10 inches of snow Tuesday into Wednesday...my daughter is really beginning to regret signing the boy up for an extra day of pre-school.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I would venture to say that it's because the NSA phone-monitoring is real and the lack of security at Obamacare is a figment of your (plural) imagination.
> 
> Do you get treated only by doctors with security clearance? Do you even ask whether they're cleared? Of course not. Yet they, too, use computers for record-keeping, including credit card payments. Don't you worry about those?


Yes, but being local I can pinpoint where the security breach happened. And before I use a new doctor I ask about security and how they screen their employees. I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety.

But the information on Obamacare is 100% not secure according to testimony today in DC. Obamacare knows your income, social security number, medical history and collected by people with no background checks, 8 hours of training, and information being shared between federal agencies, state agencies, and insurance companies. If the hackers can break into the Obamacare website in 15 minutes, how secure is it after the website was allegedly fixed? But do you really want hackers reading about your medical problems, medications, income level so they can rob your home for money or drugs?

What I say on my cell phone is not as important as the mega data that Obamacare collects.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Listen to the bullchit fly, listen to the bullchit fly...how is it that you do not understand that NOTHING is secure?
Companies with the best resources money can buy are being hacked.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Yes, but being local I can pinpoint where the security breach happened. And before I use a new doctor I ask about security and how they screen their employees. I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety.
> 
> But the information on Obamacare is 100% not secure according to testimony today in DC. Obamacare knows your income, social security number, medical history and collected by people with no background checks, 8 hours of training, and information being shared between federal agencies, state agencies, and insurance companies. If the hackers can break into the Obamacare website in 15 minutes, how secure is it after the website was allegedly fixed? But do you really want hackers reading about your medical problems, medications, income level so they can rob your home for money or drugs?
> 
> What I say on my cell phone is not as important as the mega data that Obamacare collects.


I obviously haven't given this all the time you have to study the situation, though I feel certain that security is as safe as it needs to be. Are you serious when you say you question new doctors on how they screen employees? Do you question your insurance company that way, too. Truth is if they can hack into bank records and Target and who knows what else, they can get into your doctor's stuff, too. I won't say you're paranoid; I'll just think it.

I don't think you meant to say "I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety." Why would you want to limit your safety? That's an odd slip. BTW I also use a dedicated credit card for medical expenses *because it makes it very easy to find medical deductions at tax time.*


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Listen to the bullchit fly, listen to the bullchit fly...how is it that you do not understand that NOTHING is secure?
> Companies with the best resources money can buy are being hacked.


But they haven't had LTL available to show them how to really protect themselves.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

I just got this email from Moveon.org:

Shop at Whole Foods? You're going to want to read this.
Inbox
x
Dr. Paul Song [email protected]

6:21 PM (26 minutes ago)

to me

Dear MoveOn member,

I'm Dr. Paul Song of the Courage Campaign, and I started a petition to Whole Foods CEO John Mackey, which says:
Stop spreading misinformation about the Affordable Care Act. Despite the fact that millions of Americans believe a single-payer solution would work better, Obamacare is a FREE MARKET approach to the health care crisisnot a "government takeover," as you claim it is. It is shameful that you would use your business prestige and media influence to actively promote destructive confusion and lies about affordable health care options when the lives of millions of Americans are at stake.

Whole Foods CEO John Mackey has been using his position as head of one of the most respected companies in America to promote anti-Obamacare lies and deter people from signing up for lifesaving health insurance under the Affordable Care Act.

We must fight back against this kind of confusing misinformation, and tell John Mackey to stop misleading Americans. Statements like these confuse people about the law and scare them away from signing up for the coverage they desperately need.

Click here to add your name to this petition, and then pass it along to your friends.

Thanks!

Dr. Paul Song

This petition was created on MoveOn's online petition site, where anyone can start their own online petitions. Courage Campaign didn't pay us to send this emailwe never rent or sell the MoveOn.org list.

Want to support our work? MoveOn Civic Action is entirely funded by our 8 million membersno corporate contributions, no big checks from CEOs. And our tiny staff ensures that small contributions go a long way. Chip in here.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But they haven't had LTL available to show them how to really protect themselves.


I am sure that the advice to keep it local to better control data breaches will get them all excited.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I obviously haven't given this all the time you have to study the situation, though I feel certain that security is as safe as it needs to be. Are you serious when you say you question new doctors on how they screen employees? Do you question your insurance company that way, too. Truth is if they can hack into bank records and Target and who knows what else, they can get into your doctor's stuff, too. I won't say you're paranoid; I'll just think it.
> 
> I don't think you meant to say "I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety." Why would you want to limit your safety? That's an odd slip. BTW I also use a dedicated credit card for medical expenses *because it makes it very easy to find medical deductions at tax time.*


This way it is easier to see if it has been used because I use it so seldomly that any unauthorized charges are easy to spot. I also only use PayPal whenever possible. I am enrolled in a financial alert company that alerts me if there is something out of the ordinary on my cards. American Express is really good about monitoring my account. Can't do everything to keep from identity theft from happening, but I do give it my best shot


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Listen to the bullchit fly, listen to the bullchit fly...how is it that you do not understand that NOTHING is secure?
> Companies with the best resources money can buy are being hacked.


Crass, can't you communicate any other way?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> This way it is easier to see if it has been used because I use it so seldomly that any unauthorized charges are easy to spot. I also only use PayPal whenever possible. I am enrolled in a financial alert company that alerts me if there is something out of the ordinary on my cards. American Express is really good about monitoring my account. Can't do everything to keep from identity theft from happening, but I do give it my best shot


I'm glad you're on top of things.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Crass, can't you communicate any other way?


Not when communicating with people who have such low expectations of the uneducated, no. 
When you take a break from thinking about how clever you are while protecting yourself, please look up (you know, educate yourself) about how data theft works to let thieves thousands of miles away buy your info and how much it costs each of us for the protections banking institutions put in place so that people who have info stolen don't have to pay those costs directly.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Not when communicating with people who have such low expectations of the uneducated, no.
> When you take a break from thinking about how clever you are while protecting yourself, please look up (you know, educate yourself) about how data theft works to let thieves thousands of miles away buy your info and how much it costs each of us for the protections banking institutions put in place so that people who have info stolen don't have to pay those costs directly.


Uneducated does not mean stupid. There are 'book smart' people and 'common sense' people. What do I need to educate myself about? I am very eager to let people know what I do to protect myself. Another thing I do is not to use my ATM card except to get cash so my pin number is safe from storage and wandering eyes.

You appear to be so eager to put someone down to make yourself feel better.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> You appear to be so eager to put someone down to make yourself feel better.


Really? I might have said that about someone who felt it was necessary to post this.

"What I think is sad is a women that sits around all day in a lonely bedroom praying that someone will write something so she can parse their words and feel better about herself by putting other people down. I could not live like that, needing to hurt others to fill my day.

Off to knit with friends with my handspun alpaca."


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> There has been a ruling to get rid off the FCC's net neutrality rules. The quick version is that now your Internet provider can block or limit the bandwith of certain sites. So say you have Verizon. Verizon can strike a deal with Hulu that they will block Netflix sites to their users. The net neutrality rules said they couldn't, but now that has been overturned. So now your provider could get away with charging for Internet like they do for cable. Certain websites could be "premium" and you could pay more, like you do for HBO. So now your kids doing research could potentially be refused certain educational sites because they don't have the money for premium channels. I see this being a big problem for libraries and schools.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57617242-94/why-you-should-care-about-net-neutrality-faq/


I see this being a big problem for ME.

LOL -- but yes, libraries and schools as well altho they might very well get special deals with ISPs.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitry said:


> I see this being a big problem for ME.
> 
> LOL -- but yes, libraries and schools as well altho they might very well get special deals with ISPs.


Well, schools have .edu and munis .gov 
I was thinking that perhaps schools will start handing out the edu to students.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Uneducated does not mean stupid. There are 'book smart' people and 'common sense' people. What do I need to educate myself about? I am very eager to let people know what I do to protect myself. Another thing I do is not to use my ATM card except to get cash so my pin number is safe from storage and wandering eyes.
> 
> You appear to be so eager to put someone down to make yourself feel better.


It's a little old, nothing much has changed, though.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/june/money/credit-card-fraud/overview/index.htm


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I just got this email from Moveon.org:
> 
> Shop at Whole Foods? You're going to want to read this.
> Inbox
> ...


This isn't the first time Whole Foods has been on the wrong end of things. You have to wonder if they're not just another corporate monster. (A little too Monsanto-friendly: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22449.cfm )

Some days it really is just totally overwhelming.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Ran across an interesting article that touched on one of the themes we've discussed here:

*For the Love of Money*
On wealth addiction by a former wealth addict. New York Times
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/opinion/sunday/for-the-love-of-money.html?_r=0


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

I wasn't going to post this but after mulling it over off and on yesterday and today, I've decided I will. Those not interested in the subject can just skip it.

We've discussed the growing inequality and commiserated about our still very poor national economy in various ways through however much of the thread that I've been participating in. This thoughtful brief commentary ties all that together with the NSA \. It's provocative, insightful and I think eye-opening.

Those who do read it will probably find most of the headlines fairly compelling as well.



> *NSA spying and inequality are deeply, inextricably linked.*
> http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024352872
> It is deeply disingenuous to try to argue that they aren't related, or that people focusing on one are ignoring the other.
> They are deeply, intimately connected.
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I just got this email from Moveon.org:
> 
> Shop at Whole Foods? You're going to want to read this.
> Inbox
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Duplicate, sorry.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It's a little old, nothing much has changed, though.
> 
> http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine-archive/2011/june/money/credit-card-fraud/overview/index.htm


Oh, well, to quote Robert Burns (To a Mouse) once more, "The best laid schemes o' mice an' men gang aft agley" (= often go awry). So using an atm card to get cash can be risky? Who would have guessed? I hope LTL bothers to read this (she obviously doesn't bother to read most things, skipping the first 3/4 of a message just to comment on the last 1/4), because keeping it local isn't much help, either.

It's very creepy to think that the buttons you're pushing are someone else's, not the gas station's or the bank's.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> This isn't the first time Whole Foods has been on the wrong end of things. You have to wonder if they're not just another corporate monster. (A little too Monsanto-friendly: http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22449.cfm )
> 
> Some days it really is just totally overwhelming.


Wouldn't it be funny if our national health-food merchant had gm foods on their shelves? Or if not funny, then interesting? Or deplorable?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Whole Foods is definitely suffering from foot in mouth disease recently.
> There was this one...
> 
> http://www.nbcnews.com/business/whole-foods-workers-suspended-over-speaking-spanish-6C10222989
> ...


At least they're consistent.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> .


I wish the President could act on what he said, but this is probably a state thing, and some states are very quick to give teenagers long sentences.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> I wasn't going to post this but after mulling it over off and on yesterday and today, I've decided I will. Those not interested in the subject can just skip it.
> 
> We've discussed the growing inequality and commiserated about our still very poor national economy in various ways through however much of the thread that I've been participating in. This thoughtful brief commentary ties all that together with the NSA \. It's provocative, insightful and I think eye-opening.
> 
> Those who do read it will probably find most of the headlines fairly compelling as well.


Just reading the headlines made my blood pressure go up. The effect that seeing such a long list of things has on me is to make me want to go hide in a closet until the world gets better. I don't know how you do it.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wouldn't it be funny if our national health-food merchant had gm foods on their shelves? Or if not funny, then interesting? Or deplorable?


It would be business as usual. Whole Foods will sell people what they want, and if WF has to fudge a bit on ingredients, they will.

Various agencies of government AND business want to know all sorts of things about all of us, including the most BORING stuff imaginable.

Just because Knitry is paranoid doesn't mean she isn't being followed... Just because LTL has a sense of security doesn't mean she really has one.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitry said:


> I wasn't going to post this but after mulling it over off and on yesterday and today, I've decided I will. Those not interested in the subject can just skip it.
> 
> We've discussed the growing inequality and commiserated about our still very poor national economy in various ways through however much of the thread that I've been participating in. This thoughtful brief commentary ties all that together with the NSA \. It's provocative, insightful and I think eye-opening.
> 
> Those who do read it will probably find most of the headlines fairly compelling as well.


How in the world do you find time to make a list of almost 40 links you believe will educate the participants in this topic? Is there anything else in your life? Do you ever go out into the real world? Do you ever go out to enjoy the sunshine?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It would be business as usual. Whole Foods will sell people what they want, and if WF has to fudge a bit on ingredients, they will. Various agencies of government AND business want to know all sorts of things about all of us, including the most BORING stuff imaginable. Just because Knitry is paranoid doesn't mean she isn't being followed...


You're right. About all of this. Though my jury is still out on whether Knitry is paranoid.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I wish the President could act on what he said, but this is probably a state thing, and some states are very quick to give teenagers long sentences.


I am not sure what the president can do without Congress, states are going for access to marijuana in defiance of federal law, though, I am pretty sure. 
I think that the Dept. of Justice is standing down as states do both the medical piece and the recreational bit. 
I don't remember where things stand right now, but, there is interest in dumping the inequity concerning crack cocaine and powder, backing off those sentences that are triple the length. 
That was a recent number of pardons President Obama handed down recently, about .5 of 1% of what he needs to do.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. About all of this. Though my jury is still out on whether Knitry is paranoid.


There was a time when that "just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me" was a mantra. 
And just because I don't have the attention span to process all that doesn't mean they are not out to track all of us, it all goes back to the behavior background, I guess. I want to see attainable goals.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It would be business as usual. Whole Foods will sell people what they want, and if WF has to fudge a bit on ingredients, they will.
> 
> Various agencies of government AND business want to know all sorts of things about all of us, including the most BORING stuff imaginable.
> 
> Just because Knitry is paranoid doesn't mean she isn't being followed... Just because LTL has a sense of security doesn't mean she really has one.


Most nights as I drive my son to work I listen to "Q" on CBC radio, it's Jion Ghomeshi. He has some facinating guests on. Tonight it was some nerd over movies and an exec from NetFlix. 
They discussed the process they use to recommend various movies to customers. Yes, they use very obscure and boring info to help them key in on how to get more and more of people's money and keep them coming back.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I don't really want to offend anyone for a change. I just feel the need to say something as it strikes at the part of my heart that caused me to work with people how have disabilities each time this comes up. 

There are people in the world, our world, who are not able to leave their homes. If they are able to go out in the world it can be on an intermittent basis. 
A computer can be the lifeline for that person to talk, explore, see the world, learn new things, teach new things, act in a way that so many of the rest of us take for granted every hour of every day. 
Honestly, it is none of our business why people stay glued to a TV, to a pair of knitting needles, to EBay buying yarn and supplies, yakking on KP or anywhere else. That is none of anyone's business any more than what someone's age is. 
We get to share information if we want not because someone is curious or thinks the way we live is odd. 
I repeat, I don't mean to offend. This is just the way I see privacy. 
Have fun, I am having coffee doing a couple more lines and going to bed. 
I enjoy all of you most of the time. Thanks for being in my life.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am not sure what the president can do without Congress, states are going for access to marijuana in defiance of federal law, though, I am pretty sure.
> I think that the Dept. of Justice is standing down as states do both the medical piece and the recreational bit.
> I don't remember where things stand right now, but, there is interest in dumping the inequity concerning crack cocaine and powder, backing off those sentences that are triple the length.
> That was a recent number of pardons President Obama handed down recently, about .5 of 1% of what he needs to do.


Some states are going for access, but others are continuing to carry out over-long mandatory sentencing for possession.

I'll wait and see whether he at least pays lip service to the problem. After all, the private corporations that own or run the prisons would lose a lot of $ if sentences were reduced, and we can't have that.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There was a time when that "just because I am paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me" was a mantra.
> And just because I don't have the attention span to process all that doesn't mean they are not out to track all of us, it all goes back to the behavior background, I guess. I want to see attainable goals.


I know exactly what you mean. I don't think Knitry expects us all to work as hard as she does. She's just putting out the info - lots and lots of it - and we can pick and choose what we want.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I don't really want to offend anyone for a change. I just feel the need to say something as it strikes at the part of my heart that caused me to work with people how have disabilities each time this comes up.
> 
> There are people in the world, our world, who are not able to leave their homes. If they are able to go out in the world it can be on an intermittent basis.
> A computer can be the lifeline for that person to talk, explore, see the world, learn new things, teach new things, act in a way that so many of the rest of us take for granted every hour of every day.
> ...


This was a very sweet, thoughtful message. Why would anyone be offended?

I've also noticed - mainly since I've been reading KP - that so many people have painful physical conditions: fibromyalgia, arthritis, various hand and arm and neck pains, and many that I haven't come across. Who would want to prevent them from having whatever pleasure they can? Oh, right, I forgot about those people (and this time I don't mean the usual suspects).

Sleep well. Happy dreams.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Perhaps he will learn to stay the heck out of Florida, did you read about the overbright soul who shot HIMSELF during a road rage incident?
> Darwin nominations, here we come.
> 
> Addendum: 8-10 inches of snow Tuesday into Wednesday...my daughter is really beginning to regret signing the boy up for an extra day of pre-school.


My oldest has a January birthday. One year we had a birthday party planned and we were afraid no one would come in a blizzard. Everyone had cabin fever. They brought them in sleds. Happy January in the Northeast.

Arizona is in the 70's. I'm a wuss.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sad but true. I'd love to hear the plans.



Janet Cooke said:


> Listen to the bullchit fly, listen to the bullchit fly...how is it that you do not understand that NOTHING is secure?
> Companies with the best resources money can buy are being hacked.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's so easy to outwit her, but you do it so well.



Poor Purl said:


> I obviously haven't given this all the time you have to study the situation, though I feel certain that security is as safe as it needs to be. Are you serious when you say you question new doctors on how they screen employees? Do you question your insurance company that way, too. Truth is if they can hack into bank records and Target and who knows what else, they can get into your doctor's stuff, too. I won't say you're paranoid; I'll just think it.
> 
> I don't think you meant to say "I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety." Why would you want to limit your safety? That's an odd slip. BTW I also use a dedicated credit card for medical expenses *because it makes it very easy to find medical deductions at tax time.*


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've already signed the petition. Whole Foods will not get another cent from me.



Poor Purl said:


> I just got this email from Moveon.org:
> 
> Shop at Whole Foods? You're going to want to read this.
> Inbox
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> My oldest has a January birthday. One year we had a birthday party planned and we were afraid no one would come in a blizzard. Everyone had cabin fever. They brought them in sleds. Happy January in the Northeast.
> 
> Arizona is in the 70's. I'm a wuss.


Yes. Definitely a wuss. I've got fleece-lined boots with deep treads, and I'm ready for anything.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Can't help it when presented with.....



lovethelake said:


> Crass, can't you communicate any other way?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ROFL



lovethelake said:


> Uneducated does not mean stupid. There are 'book smart' people and 'common sense' people. What do I need to educate myself about? I am very eager to let people know what I do to protect myself. Another thing I do is not to use my ATM card except to get cash so my pin number is safe from storage and wandering eyes.
> 
> You appear to be so eager to put someone down to make yourself feel better.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> It's so easy to outwit her, but you do it so well.


She makes it so easy, because she never reads entire messages. I think she reads only one paragraph per message, usually the last one.

Janet posted a piece from Consumer Reports describing what thieves do to steal atm pins, and none of LTLs security measures would save her from them. But she won't read that because a) she thinks CR is a left-wing rag, b) she doesn't want to see anything that will spoil her peaceful mood, and c) she has trouble reading.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Can't help it when presented with.....


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> ROFL


Leave some room for me. I skipped that message before, hadn't seen how funny it was.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This explains a lot. Thank you for posting the article.



Knitry said:


> Ran across an interesting article that touched on one of the themes we've discussed here:
> 
> *For the Love of Money*
> On wealth addiction by a former wealth addict. New York Times
> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/19/opinion/sunday/for-the-love-of-money.html?_r=0


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She makes it so easy, because she never reads entire messages. I think she reads only one paragraph per message, usually the last one.
> 
> Janet posted a piece from Consumer Reports describing what thieves do to steal atm pins, and none of LTLs security measures would save her from them. But she won't read that because a) she thinks CR is a left-wing rag, b) she doesn't want to see anything that will spoil her peaceful mood, and c) she has trouble reading.


I believe it's the latter. Lord knows she can't write either. Snark snark.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I believe it's the latter. Lord knows she can't write either. Snark snark.


Yes, she certainly can snark.

I have to get off, Empress. Sleep well.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just a thought to keep us up all night. I just read an article about Carl Lewis and Chris Christie. 

At the very least, Christie plays politics as a full contact sport. 

Think about this. Say, horror of all horrors, Christie were somehow to become POTUSA, and NSA continued to have ability to gather data. Could you sleep at night knowing what misuse of power Christie could dream up with access to this information?

I've finally found a way to engage myself with NSA question. To me it is not gathering information that troubles me. It is the potential damage from a less ethical President. I don't know why I didn't think of this before.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Unbridled greed strikes again. :hunf: And here I was, thinking the greedy SOBs were making tons of $$$ WITHOUT attempting to get the FCC to get rid of their net neutrality rules. Nobody needs to respond to this post to tell me how naive and stupid I was to think unbridled greed would accept a bridle, even from the FCC. I already understand the error in my thinking.  :-(


I don't call it naive or stupid, I call it a hope in the goodness of man (or possible goodness). Unfortunately that hope can only be dashed so many times...


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Target just gave us a good example of how an operation other than the ACA can be hacked into to snap up our personal information. I believe that even of all of the ACA websites were secure there would still be hackers who would feel obliged to meet the challenge of getting into those websites. The poorer the security of any website, the ACA included, the easier it is for someone to mine it for information they want.
> 
> The fact that the lack of security of the ACA web sites hasn't been discussed here may merely be a matter of the subject not being discussed here YET.


Don't I know it about Target. Our card just got shut down when the bank noticed suspicious activity. Someone stole our info. Thankfully the bank caught it.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I obviously haven't given this all the time you have to study the situation, though I feel certain that security is as safe as it needs to be. Are you serious when you say you question new doctors on how they screen employees? Do you question your insurance company that way, too. Truth is if they can hack into bank records and Target and who knows what else, they can get into your doctor's stuff, too. I won't say you're paranoid; I'll just think it.
> 
> I don't think you meant to say "I also use only one dedicated credit card for medical expenses, which limits my safety." Why would you want to limit your safety? That's an odd slip. BTW I also use a dedicated credit card for medical expenses *because it makes it very easy to find medical deductions at tax time.*


Having seen some of the people hired who have access to medical records, I laugh at the concept of a careful screening. Not to mention, is it checked before ever trip to the blood draw station? How about the actual lab doing the analysis? What about those in medical records in a hospital? Or better yet, are the hospitals in the are all prescreened for all the emergency rooms (considering if it bad and you are unconscious they go to the closest hospital)? What about all the ambulance companies and/or volunteer firemen/emt's? The computerization of medical records does not mean its only at your personal doctor's office. Nowadays it is being uploaded to a bigger database for better continuity of care between emergency rooms and different doctors, as well as making it harder for drug speaking patients to be successful.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I don't really want to offend anyone for a change. I just feel the need to say something as it strikes at the part of my heart that caused me to work with people how have disabilities each time this comes up.
> 
> There are people in the world, our world, who are not able to leave their homes. If they are able to go out in the world it can be on an intermittent basis.
> A computer can be the lifeline for that person to talk, explore, see the world, learn new things, teach new things, act in a way that so many of the rest of us take for granted every hour of every day.
> ...


OMG! Thank you so much! I used to be very active and it kills me now that I'm lucky if I am physically able to get out once a month, due to health problems. The TV and Internet can be my outlet sometimes. I have always hated it when people try to say I need to get out an get a life and not be on the Internet so much. If I would I could! And it can be so very hard to go from 100% and caring for others, working 8-16 hour shifts to suddenly needing to be the one who needs to be taken care of.

Thank you very much for speaking up for those of us who wish we could "have a life".


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lkholcomb said:


> OMG! Thank you so much! I used to be very active and it kills me now that I'm lucky if I am physically able to get out once a month, due to health problems. The TV and Internet can be my outlet sometimes. I have always hated it when people try to say I need to get out an get a life and not be on the Internet so much. If I would I could! And it can be so very hard to go from 100% and caring for others, working 8-16 hour shifts to suddenly needing to be the one who needs to be taken care of.
> 
> Thank you very much for speaking up for those of us who wish we could "have a life".


Of course, too many 16 hour shifts can make people say you need to get a life,too!
There are so many disorders that cause people to be stuck inside. This morning I thought about agoraphobia, we rarely hear that term anymore even though it was in the news in what seemed to be overkill for a bit. Depression... can make it easy to hang inside.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????

There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?

What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right. About all of this. Though my jury is still out on whether Knitry is paranoid.


Perhaps paranoid is too strong a word. Let me say "intensely concerned" instead.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lkholcomb said:


> I don't call it naive or stupid, I call it a hope in the goodness of man (or possible goodness). Unfortunately that hope can only be dashed so many times...


Thanks.I try to stay hopeful, but cynicism and pessimism sometimes get the best of me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????
> 
> There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?
> 
> What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


Hmm...I guess a foot of snow, near blizzard conditions, two thousand canceled flights, and a polar freeze aren't enough in your book to close federal offices along the Eastern seaboard. You must stay awake nights conjuring up things to fret about.

PS: the Office of Personnel Management and its director, John Berry, make the call on whether or not to close District area federal offices.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I guess a foot of snow, near blizzard conditions, two thousand canceled flights, and a polar freeze aren't enough in your book to close federal offices along the Eastern seaboard. You must stay awake nights conjuring up things to fret about.
> 
> PS: the Office of Personnel Management and its director, John Berry, make the call on whether or not to close District area federal offices.


Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


Sorry Toots--as I posted above, the OPM is in charge of the federal offices in the area and makes the decision on whether they will or will not remain open. Why don't you take it up with them?

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2009/12/federal_government_closed_on_m.html

Correction: Katherine Archuleta is now director of the OPA. Take the matter up with _her_.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


How amusing you are. Maybe it isn't snowing right now in DC, but the weather reports are pretty scary about what's probably going to happen. I'd much rather err on the side of caution and give everyone a snow day. Weather and Congress are two very different things. Congress could have prevented the government shutdown Nobody can prevent the weather from doing whatever it's going to do. You made your posts about the government being shut down today for the fun of it, didn't you.






















































































PS. The snow is coming down already. Just heard the weather report on the radio. Flights cancelled all over the East Coast, including DC.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sorry Toots--as I posted above, the OPM is in charge of the federal offices in the area and makes the decision on whether they will or will not remain open. Why don't you take it up with them?
> 
> http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2009/12/federal_government_closed_on_m.html
> 
> Correction: Katherine Archuleta is now director of the OPA. Take the matter up with _her_.


Darlin' isn't Obama in charge of the Federal Government? Doesn't the buck stop at his desk?

Maybe Obama is crafting his new marijuana tolerance policy. Guess coke and marijuana were good enough for him so why not for the rest of Americans?

Still no snow and the government is shut down. Bet the DC sissies will have tomorrow off too. So isn't this total shutdown more harmful than a partial? Guess not in Obamaworld. This I'll pass on the Kool Aide you are passing out.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Darlin' isn't Obama in charge of the Federal Government? Doesn't the buck stop at his desk?
> 
> Maybe Obama is crafting his new marijuana tolerance policy. Guess coke and marijuana were good enough for him so why not for the rest of Americans?
> 
> Still no snow and the government is shut down. Bet the DC sissies will have tomorrow off too. So isn't this total shutdown more harmful than a partial? Guess not in Obamaworld. This I'll pass on the Kool Aide you are passing out.


Roll in the tax revenue. Making marijuana available to the general public if they're old enough to booze it up means huge tax revenues. every single step of marijuan production can be taxed big time. Then we'll have the money to pay for all the things people want but aren't willling to pay for.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Roll in the tax revenue. Making marijuana available to the general public if they're old enough to booze it up means huge tax revenues. every single step of marijuan production can be taxed big time. Then we'll have the money to pay for all the things people want but aren't willling to pay for.


 :lol: :lol: And how is marijuana supposed to be regulated? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Darlin' isn't Obama in charge of the Federal Government? Doesn't the buck stop at his desk?
> 
> Maybe Obama is crafting his new marijuana tolerance policy. Guess coke and marijuana were good enough for him so why not for the rest of Americans?
> 
> Still no snow and the government is shut down. Bet the DC sissies will have tomorrow off too. So isn't this total shutdown more harmful than a partial? Guess not in Obamaworld. This I'll pass on the Kool Aide you are passing out.


You're obviously here to pick a fight, LTL. Guess the relative peace that's reigned over these threads the last few days doesn't suit you.

Frankly, I have to believe that even _you_ can see the difference between a one- or two day closure of some federal offices on the East coast due to bad weather, and the total and complete gridlock we saw last fall.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: And how is marijuana supposed to be regulated? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Exactly the way booze is regulated. No sales to anyone who isn't old enough to drink according to each state's requirement. DUI means "Driving Under the Influence", but it doesn't say what influence. Marijuana users who break traffic laws get treated like any other DUI. License and tax the production of seeds and seedlings. License and tax the growing process, for large commercial operations and the plant someone is growing at home. Limit home growing severely, maybe 4 plants per year. Require costly licenses for each step of the process, for anyone performing any part of production. License and tax any equipment that's only use is to produce marijuana. And tax, tax, tax every steplike the booze and cigarette businesses.

Yes, some underage people will get their hands on some marijuana just like they get into the liquor cabinet and medicine chest at home. Yes, that's not a good thing, but underage people are already getting their hands on anything that will get them high. MAYBE PARENTS SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR SAFETY. It's not the fault of the substances under age people use. It's the fault of inadequate home storage and fake IDs.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Exactly the way booze is regulated. No sales to anyone who isn't old enough to drink according to each state's requirement. DUI means "Driving Under the Influence", but it doesn't say what influence. Marijuana users who break traffic laws get treated like any other DUI. License and tax the production of seeds and seedlings. License and tax the growing process, for large commercial operations and the plant someone is growing at home. Limit home growing severely, maybe 4 plants per year. Require costly licenses for each step of the process, for anyone performing any part of production. License and tax any equipment that's only use is to produce marijuana. And tax, tax, tax every steplike the booze and cigarette businesses.
> 
> Yes, some underage people will get their hands on some marijuana just like they get into the liquor cabinet and medicine chest at home. Yes, that's not a good thing, but underage people are already getting their hands on anything that will get them high. MAYBE PARENTS SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR SAFETY. It's not the fault of the substances under age people use. It's the fault of inadequate home storage and fake IDs.


Absolutely parents should pay more attention to what their children are doing. But, I do not see the stuff being regulated at all. You can get it anywhere. Regulation will not happen.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????
> 
> There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?
> 
> What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


lovethelake
and where is your common sense? Pathetic is an appropriate term for your behavior.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Absolutely parents should pay more attention to what their children are doing. But, I do not see the stuff being regulated at all. You can get it anywhere. Regulation will not happen.


Lukelucy
you must have been an Angel as a child. Did your Parents tie you to them with a rope so that you would not get into any mischief? You poor Soul. I guess it is the no fun growing up that has made you so bitter.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????
> 
> There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?
> 
> What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


Good heavens! You can't make it any clearer how much you despise Barack Obama. Why don't you get off your keister and show everyone what to do?? But don't get in an accident on snowy, icy roads.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> How amusing you are. Maybe it isn't snowing right now in DC, but the weather reports are pretty scary about what's probably going to happen. I'd much rather err on the side of caution and give everyone a snow day. Weather and Congress are two very different things. Congress could have prevented the government shutdown Nobody can prevent the weather from doing whatever it's going to do. You made your posts about the government being shut down today for the fun of it, didn't you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A shutdown is a shutdown. What does airport delays have to do with getting in your car, or bus, or other forms of mass transportation and getting yourself to work? If their jobs were so important they would have to be at work. No snow here, so what is wrong with working for a half day? If they really cared, they would get to their jobs to help the children, at least for a few hours. But maybe Obamacultists think working a half day for the government is a full day. Tomorrow it will probably be too cold for them to get to work. Then Thursday will also be too cold to go to work. Then heck, let them just take Friday off so that they will have another day to recover from the stress of worrying about having to work.

Can't wait to hear how the weather is affecting the Obamacare web site so all those healthy young adults can sign up.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're obviously here to pick a fight, LTL. Guess the relative peace that's reigned over these threads the last few days doesn't suit you.
> 
> Frankly, I have to believe that even _you_ can see the difference between a one- or two day closure of some federal offices on the East coast due to bad weather, and the total and complete gridlock we saw last fall.


Didn't you hear about it? The President is now in charge of the weather. Also, I replied to two of LTL's posts. Oh, those senior moments! How we hope they will occur when we are doing nothing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> A shutdown is a shutdown. What does airport delays have to do with getting in your car, or bus, or other forms of mass transportation and getting yourself to work? If their jobs were so important they would have to be at work. No snow here, so what is wrong with working for a half day? If they really cared, they would get to their jobs to help the children, at least for a few hours. But maybe Obamacultists think working a half day for the government is a full day. Tomorrow it will probably be too cold for them to get to work. Then Thursday will also be too cold to go to work. Then heck, let them just take Friday off so that they will have another day to recover from the stress of worrying about having to work.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how the weather is affecting the Obamacare web site so all those healthy young adults can sign up.


I think you'd best check your teeth fillings, LTL--the radio signals you're receiving through them from Fox News or wherever are definitely more garbled than usual.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


And just when did you ordain President Obama as GOD? According to you, he is in control of every thing that goes on in this world. If the sun rises, it's President Obama's fault. If there's a snow storm, and the government is shut down, it's President Obama's fault. If the sun sets, it's President Obama's fault. Seeing a pattern here? Good, Bad or indifferent......in your book, it's President Obama's fault. You really need to move on.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> A shutdown is a shutdown. What does airport delays have to do with getting in your car, or bus, or other forms of mass transportation and getting yourself to work? If their jobs were so important they would have to be at work. No snow here, so what is wrong with working for a half day? If they really cared, they would get to their jobs to help the children, at least for a few hours. But maybe Obamacultists think working a half day for the government is a full day. Tomorrow it will probably be too cold for them to get to work. Then Thursday will also be too cold to go to work. Then heck, let them just take Friday off so that they will have another day to recover from the stress of worrying about having to work.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how the weather is affecting the Obamacare web site so all those healthy young adults can sign up.


So, are you equally outraged about all the days off Congress takes throughout the year? How about last Fall between Thanksgiving and Christmas when so much had to be done but Baynor kept shaving off the number of days they should come in the work?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Exactly the way booze is regulated. No sales to anyone who isn't old enough to drink according to each state's requirement. DUI means "Driving Under the Influence", but it doesn't say what influence. Marijuana users who break traffic laws get treated like any other DUI. License and tax the production of seeds and seedlings. License and tax the growing process, for large commercial operations and the plant someone is growing at home. Limit home growing severely, maybe 4 plants per year. Require costly licenses for each step of the process, for anyone performing any part of production. License and tax any equipment that's only use is to produce marijuana. And tax, tax, tax every steplike the booze and cigarette businesses.
> 
> Yes, some underage people will get their hands on some marijuana just like they get into the liquor cabinet and medicine chest at home. Yes, that's not a good thing, but underage people are already getting their hands on anything that will get them high. MAYBE PARENTS SHOULD PAY MORE ATTENTION TO THEIR CHILDREN AND THEIR SAFETY. It's not the fault of the substances under age people use. It's the fault of inadequate home storage and fake IDs.


It's hard for parents to pay more attention to their children when they themselves are under the influence of the very substances their children are using. It's good to know people aren't at fault, but home storage and fake ID's are to blame.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> Having seen some of the people hired who have access to medical records, I laugh at the concept of a careful screening. Not to mention, is it checked before ever trip to the blood draw station? How about the actual lab doing the analysis? What about those in medical records in a hospital? Or better yet, are the hospitals in the are all prescreened for all the emergency rooms (considering if it bad and you are unconscious they go to the closest hospital)? What about all the ambulance companies and/or volunteer firemen/emt's? The computerization of medical records does not mean its only at your personal doctor's office. Nowadays it is being uploaded to a bigger database for better continuity of care between emergency rooms and different doctors, as well as making it harder for drug speaking patients to be successful.


But she uses a dedicated credit card, so she's covered.

Considering all the opportunities you just showed us for security breaches, it's comical that they're so concerned about the ACA site!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Absolutely parents should pay more attention to what their children are doing. But, I do not see the stuff being regulated at all. You can get it anywhere. Regulation will not happen.


The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens! You can't make it any clearer how much you despise Barack Obama. Why don't you get off your keister and show everyone what to do?? But don't get in an accident on snowy, icy roads.


2:00 and no snow

Those poor Federal workers not stuck at home because of snow. Well maybe they are helping grow the economy and shopping at the malls. Hope they get wool sweaters, going to be cold tomorrow. Oh dear, maybe too cold for the snow victims to make it to work


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


Better some revenue than none, which is all the government is collecting now. And why would the average person go to the trouble and expense of cultivating huge quantities of pot if they could just pick it up at the store? Most could also grow their own tobacco or concoct some form of alcohol if they wanted to, but it's too much hassle.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????
> 
> There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?
> 
> What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


Now you're concerned? When Congress shut it down for 2 weeks in fine weather, you said nothing. Oops, I lie; you complained about veterans' not being able to go to a park, but you didn't complain to the people who prevented it: the entire Republican membership of the House.

Preparation for snow has to be done in advance; if it had been a blizzard, would you expect phone trees to let everyone know they could stay home? Yes, you probably would, and then complain that so many highly paid govt. employees were being used for idiot work.

You're very comical. It's a pity you don't have a sense of humor to see how you come off.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> 2:00 and no snow
> 
> Those poor Federal workers not stuck at home because of snow. Well maybe they are helping grow the economy and shopping at the malls. Hope they get wool sweaters, going to be cold tomorrow. Oh dear, maybe too cold for the snow victims to make it to work


 It strikes me that if federal workers hadn't been told to stay home today in the face of another epic storm being expected imminently, that you would be kvetching about "Obama" being uncaring about the safety of people in forcing them to work when they should be safely home.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> 2:00 and no snow
> 
> Those poor Federal workers not stuck at home because of snow. Well maybe they are helping grow the economy and shopping at the malls. Hope they get wool sweaters, going to be cold tomorrow. Oh dear, maybe too cold for the snow victims to make it to work


*graak* *groble* *gronk*

Those transmissions are coming in loud and clear now, aren't they LTL?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I guess a foot of snow, near blizzard conditions, two thousand canceled flights, and a polar freeze aren't enough in your book to close federal offices along the Eastern seaboard. You must stay awake nights conjuring up things to fret about.
> 
> PS: the Office of Personnel Management and its director, John Berry, make the call on whether or not to close District area federal offices.


That couldn't be true. It must be Obama because he's the one who makes everything bad happen.

And she doesn't have to conjure anything up. I'm sure the right-wing blogs are all complaining about this.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


No wonder you couldn't get that math problem right. You have trouble counting. Why don't you get some practice by counting the number of days Congress hasn't met at all?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No wonder you couldn't get that math problem right. You have trouble counting. Why don't you get some practice by counting the number of days Congress hasn't met at all?


Not only that, (I am going backward so hope I am not being redundant) having offices in DC closed is NOT having the gov't closed. Even on the east coast federal buildings are open. Boston federal buildings have folks there working. It has absolutely no relationship to a closed government due to lack of funding. 
LOL, I like that mention about the House and Senate being out of DC.

Too bad that people who like to complain unnecessarily about this sort of thing ought to check on opm.gov in order to check if there are or are not procedures in place for snow days, etc.

That must be too much like work though, for those lazy complainers.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Darlin' isn't Obama in charge of the Federal Government? Doesn't the buck stop at his desk?
> 
> Maybe Obama is crafting his new marijuana tolerance policy. Guess coke and marijuana were good enough for him so why not for the rest of Americans?
> 
> Still no snow and the government is shut down. Bet the DC sissies will have tomorrow off too. So isn't this total shutdown more harmful than a partial? Guess not in Obamaworld. This I'll pass on the Kool Aide you are passing out.


Let's make a deal. You admit that Bush/Cheyney et al. were responsible for an unnecessary war that killed 4,000 of our own people and created many more thousands of the veterans you always cry about, and I'll admit that Obama may be responsible for a wasted snow day.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're obviously here to pick a fight, LTL. Guess the relative peace that's reigned over these threads the last few days doesn't suit you.
> 
> Boy, ain't that the truth, it was so pleasant for a few days to read intelligent conversations here.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Let's make a deal. You admit that Bush/Cheyney et al. were responsible for an unnecessary war that killed 4,000 of our own people and created many more thousands of the veterans you always cry about, and I'll admit that Obama may be responsible for a wasted snow day.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> :lol: :lol: And how is marijuana supposed to be regulated? :lol: :lol: :lol:


How is alcohol supposed to be regulated?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


 :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Absolutely parents should pay more attention to what their children are doing. But, I do not see the stuff being regulated at all. You can get it anywhere. Regulation will not happen.


You can't "regulate" it until the law allows its use. Of course *you* don't see it being regulated; you don't really see much of what's out in the world.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think you'd best check your teeth fillings, LTL--the radio signals you're receiving through them from Fox News or wherever are definitely more garbled than usual.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> And just when did you ordain President Obama as GOD? According to you, he is in control of every thing that goes on in this world. If the sun rises, it's President Obama's fault. If there's a snow storm, and the government is shut down, it's President Obama's fault. If the sun sets, it's President Obama's fault. Seeing a pattern here? Good, Bad or indifferent......in your book, it's President Obama's fault. You really need to move on.


Nussa, Nussa, Nussa, when will you learn? They haven't declared him God. He's the Antichrist.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's hard for parents to pay more attention to their children when they themselves are under the influence of the very substances their children are using. It's good to know people aren't at fault, but home storage and fake ID's are to blame.


Exactly what "they themselves" are you referring to?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


I don't suppose that any of those office workers do the work from their home computers.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

I thought that at least one of these people weren't ever going to read anything liberals wrote, ever, ever, again.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Exactly what "they themselves" are you referring to?


The parents.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


Yes, and there are thefts of walnuts in CA since they have tripled in price and people commit murder for pay and people steal expensive cars under contract. 
Let's not have any laws regarding commerce, though, because people will break those laws. 
Do you not understand how sophomoric an argument that is?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The parents.


HAHAHAAAAa, now that is definitely exact. geez louise


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


A lot less dangerous than tobacco subsidies. A lot less of a waste than oil subsidies.

Glad to see you're so well-informed about agriculture.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> 2:00 and no snow
> 
> Those poor Federal workers not stuck at home because of snow. Well maybe they are helping grow the economy and shopping at the malls. Hope they get wool sweaters, going to be cold tomorrow. Oh dear, maybe too cold for the snow victims to make it to work


Is there really nothing more useful you could be doing today? Like walking around in the springlike weather you seem to have?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Better some revenue than none, which is all the government is collecting now. And why would the average person go to the trouble and expense of cultivating huge quantities of pot if they could just pick it up at the store? Most could also grow their own tobacco or concoct some form of alcohol if they wanted to, but it's too much hassle.


Thank you, Susan. It's nice to see some common sense around here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> It strikes me that if federal workers hadn't been told to stay home today in the face of another epic storm being expected imminently, that you would be kvetching about "Obama" being uncaring about the safety of people in forcing them to work when they should be safely home.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> *graak* *groble* *gronk*
> 
> Those transmissions are coming in loud and clear now, aren't they LTL?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I thought that at least one of these people weren't ever going to read anything liberals wrote, ever, ever, again.


They don't have to read. They can just post irrelevant messages covering whatever thoughts pop into their teeny tiny minds. Today it's pot. Tomorrow it could be pot roast.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The parents.


Are you implying that *all* parents are high all the time and can't monitor their children?

Have you ever had children?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, and there are thefts of walnuts in CA since they have tripled in price and people commit murder for pay and people steal expensive cars under contract.
> Let's not have any laws regarding commerce, though, because people will break those laws.
> Do you not understand how sophomoric an argument that is?


This deserves applause, and not just a silly smiley. How right you are!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This deserves applause, and not just a silly smiley. How right you are!


TY, they make it so easy.


----------



## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you implying that *all* parents are high all the time and can't monitor their children?
> 
> Have you ever had children?


I don't know, I've known some children to make their parents want to drink (and probably use pot), lol. :lol:

I think people automatically think of "those people", those people who are also "scamming the system" to pay for a drug habit. But does anybody remember the commercials they used to have that started out talking about how 40% of those using drugs are in the inner city? Then it ended with a shot of two kids with skateboards (I don't knw why, but the skateboards stuck in my head) in a better area and it ended with "guess where the other 60% are"? They are in areas "those people" couldn't afford to drive through!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> I don't know, I've known some children to make their parents want to drink (and probably use pot), lol. :lol:
> 
> I think people automatically think of "those people", those people who are also "scamming the system" to pay for a drug habit. But does anybody remember the commercials they used to have that started out talking about how 40% of those using drugs are in the inner city? Then it ended with a shot of two kids with skateboards (I don't knw why, but the skateboards stuck in my head) in a better area and it ended with "guess where the other 60% are"? They are in areas "those people" couldn't afford to drive through!


Maybe they use skateboards to distinguish the 60% from the 40% who would have been stealing cars. :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It's hard for parents to pay more attention to their children when they themselves are under the influence of the very substances their children are using. It's good to know people aren't at fault, but home storage and fake ID's are to blame.


Oh, that's rich. In case you didn't know, many parents are not under the influence of any drugs or liquor at all. They're too exhausted from working all hours to even remember they HAVE children. They leave the care of their children to the public schools, TV, after school activities, and don't even bother to eat dinner as a family. Think of the recent several school shootings and how easy it is for 12 year olds to get their hands on Mommy and Daddy's guns. Parents are obliged to keep their guns, booze, and prescription medications locked up good and tight so their unsupervised children can't get at them. Same goes for marijuana. You just want to believe marijuana is somehow worse than having guns available to anyone in any particular home. If a kid can get their hands on items at home they have no business touching, and if they can find a way to get a fake ID, their parents are NOT doing their job. Parenthood doesn't end at the moment the kid pops out of the womb. Perhaps that'sanother thing you aren't aware of.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Nussa, Nussa, Nussa, when will you learn? They haven't declared him God. He's the Antichrist.


Oh, that's right......THEY are the RIGHTEOUS and we are the heathens.....So no, they wouldn't consider him God. But yet, how do they explain all these miracles he seems to be able to create. Bad weather, government shut down, getting the needy health care........what a heathen. :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh, that's right......THEY are the RIGHTEOUS and we are the heathens.....So no, they wouldn't consider him God. But yet, how do they explain all these miracles he seems to be able to create. Bad weather, government shut down, getting the needy health care........what a heathen. :XD: :XD: :XD:


Those aren't miracles; they're punishments. Especially the health care one. A work of the devil.

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

How bad is the inequality between the richest and poorest? It's really baaaaad. Worse than I'd thought, that's for sure.



> *85 richest people own as much as bottom half of population, report says * By Jim Puzzanghera
> January 20, 2014
> 
> The 85 richest people on Earth have the same amount of wealth as the bottom half of the population, according to a new report that highlights growing income inequality as political and business leaders gather for the annual World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> and where is your common sense? Pathetic is an appropriate term for your behavior.


Huck, I couldn't agree more.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, and there are thefts of walnuts in CA since they have tripled in price and people commit murder for pay and people steal expensive cars under contract.
> Let's not have any laws regarding commerce, though, because people will break those laws.
> Do you not understand how sophomoric an argument that is?


Uh oh. With all of this gov't spying, do you think I can be arrested for possession of stolen walnuts????


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just a thought to keep us up all night. I just read an article about Carl Lewis and Chris Christie.
> 
> At the very least, Christie plays politics as a full contact sport.
> 
> ...


Me too. Especially when I pointed that out in some of what I shared. LOL. But no matter -- you got it now.

Now, I don't know if this is of importance to you, but it is to me, and I really want to repeat this as well: They (NSA, etc.) are already actively and INDIVIDUALLY spying on Congress -- basically all of it, the Supreme Court Justices (and no doubt other federal judges), and so forth and so on.

WHY?

There is no GOOD reason for any of them to be spied on. They are our public servants! NO indication whatsoever that they are in any way a threat to national security. And yet, they are actively surveilled.

Now -- what would it take to make sure this or that Congressman or Senator, or this or that judge or Justice votes your way, if you're in charge of the NSA or its myriad tentacled parts?

General James Clapper outright lied to Congress in December -- he admitted it!! That's an actionable offense. But neither Congress, nor Eric Holder, nor Barack Obama lifted a finger to prosecute or sanction him. Why???


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Lkholcomb said:


> OMG! Thank you so much! I used to be very active and it kills me now that I'm lucky if I am physically able to get out once a month, due to health problems. The TV and Internet can be my outlet sometimes. I have always hated it when people try to say I need to get out an get a life and not be on the Internet so much. If I would I could! And it can be so very hard to go from 100% and caring for others, working 8-16 hour shifts to suddenly needing to be the one who needs to be taken care of.
> 
> Thank you very much for speaking up for those of us who wish we could "have a life".


Such an eloquent response. Thanks so much for sharing your perspective and experience.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please. Learn to choose your battles. You can't do sarcasm.



lovethelake said:


> Where is the outrage over Obama shutting down the Federal Government??????
> 
> There is not a flake on the ground, the sun is shining, the winds calm. Could they have worked a half day instead of shutting down the government? I would bet more people are not working today than during 'the shutdown'. So are we saying that all those staying at home federal workers are not essential?
> 
> What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> No wonder you couldn't get that math problem right. You have trouble counting. Why don't you get some practice by counting the number of days Congress hasn't met at all?


Here's another one: how many days vacation George Bush took at this point in his 2 terms versus how many Obama has taken thus far.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's not you. It's the world we live in.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks.I try to stay hopeful, but cynicism and pessimism sometimes get the best of me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And blizzard conditions are different than choosing to close the government for spite. I'm sure voters will remember. GOP so good at shooting themselves in the foot.



susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...I guess a foot of snow, near blizzard conditions, two thousand canceled flights, and a polar freeze aren't enough in your book to close federal offices along the Eastern seaboard. You must stay awake nights conjuring up things to fret about.
> 
> PS: the Office of Personnel Management and its director, John Berry, make the call on whether or not to close District area federal offices.


----------



## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > You're obviously here to pick a fight, LTL. Guess the relative peace that's reigned over these threads the last few days doesn't suit you.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You don't know when to quit.



lovethelake said:


> Nope, they could have worked a half day. Still no snow here and the roads have been pretreated, so what is the big deal? With yesterday a Federal holiday, so those essential workers were home, and the Federal government shut down by the Obama administration that is 4 days that the Federal government is shut down. So if it is not a big deal today, then it was not a big deal last year. If a shutdown is horrible and cruel according to the libs, what difference does it make the reason for doing it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Take the Kool Aid, PLEASE.



lovethelake said:


> Darlin' isn't Obama in charge of the Federal Government? Doesn't the buck stop at his desk?
> 
> Maybe Obama is crafting his new marijuana tolerance policy. Guess coke and marijuana were good enough for him so why not for the rest of Americans?
> 
> Still no snow and the government is shut down. Bet the DC sissies will have tomorrow off too. So isn't this total shutdown more harmful than a partial? Guess not in Obamaworld. This I'll pass on the Kool Aide you are passing out.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear Huck, She has no sense, common or otherwise.



Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> and where is your common sense? Pathetic is an appropriate term for your behavior.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Lukelucy
> you must have been an Angel as a child. Did your Parents tie you to them with a rope so that you would not get into any mischief? You poor Soul. I guess it is the no fun growing up that has made you so bitter.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please. Learn to choose your battles. You can't do sarcasm.


No, she can't--and her grasp of American history is pretty weak as well.

LTL: What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic."

Her knowledge is truly pathetic--Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolution, not the Potomac. The Potomac River is the one he supposedly threw a silver dollar across as a young man.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope they're not in an accident in the blizzard without insurance.



lovethelake said:


> A shutdown is a shutdown. What does airport delays have to do with getting in your car, or bus, or other forms of mass transportation and getting yourself to work? If their jobs were so important they would have to be at work. No snow here, so what is wrong with working for a half day? If they really cared, they would get to their jobs to help the children, at least for a few hours. But maybe Obamacultists think working a half day for the government is a full day. Tomorrow it will probably be too cold for them to get to work. Then Thursday will also be too cold to go to work. Then heck, let them just take Friday off so that they will have another day to recover from the stress of worrying about having to work.
> 
> Can't wait to hear how the weather is affecting the Obamacare web site so all those healthy young adults can sign up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or she could keep her thoughts to herself instead of giving me a headache.



Nussa said:


> And just when did you ordain President Obama as GOD? According to you, he is in control of every thing that goes on in this world. If the sun rises, it's President Obama's fault. If there's a snow storm, and the government is shut down, it's President Obama's fault. If the sun sets, it's President Obama's fault. Seeing a pattern here? Good, Bad or indifferent......in your book, it's President Obama's fault. You really need to move on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> So, are you equally outraged about all the days off Congress takes throughout the year? How about last Fall between Thanksgiving and Christmas when so much had to be done but Baynor kept shaving off the number of days they should come in the work?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: BRAVO Well put.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> But she uses a dedicated credit card, so she's covered.
> 
> Considering all the opportunities you just showed us for security breaches, it's comical that they're so concerned about the ACA site!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Now you're concerned? When Congress shut it down for 2 weeks in fine weather, you said nothing. Oops, I lie; you complained about veterans' not being able to go to a park, but you didn't complain to the people who prevented it: the entire Republican membership of the House.
> 
> Preparation for snow has to be done in advance; if it had been a blizzard, would you expect phone trees to let everyone know they could stay home? Yes, you probably would, and then complain that so many highly paid govt. employees were being used for idiot work.
> 
> You're very comical. It's a pity you don't have a sense of humor to see how you come off.


True but we can roll on the floor laughing because we do have a sense of the absurd.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You caught on. Obama bad. Easy peasy?



sumpleby said:


> It strikes me that if federal workers hadn't been told to stay home today in the face of another epic storm being expected imminently, that you would be kvetching about "Obama" being uncaring about the safety of people in forcing them to work when they should be safely home.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> *graak* *groble* *gronk*
> 
> Those transmissions are coming in loud and clear now, aren't they LTL?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Let's make a deal. You admit that Bush/Cheyney et al. were responsible for an unnecessary war that killed 4,000 of our own people and created many more thousands of the veterans you always cry about, and I'll admit that Obama may be responsible for a wasted snow day.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Maybe we should all just agree with her and see if she notices the difference. $5 she doesn't. Who's in?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> You don't know when to quit.


damemary
lovethelake must have had her brain frozen. What a brain child she is, no wonder she never got into any trouble as a child. That Angel has a secure place in that imaginary space - she hopes and we know better.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's hard to keep the characters straight.



Poor Purl said:


> Nussa, Nussa, Nussa, when will you learn? They haven't declared him God. He's the Antichrist.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was so hopeful that they were telling the truth for once. Silly me.



Janet Cooke said:


> I thought that at least one of these people weren't ever going to read anything liberals wrote, ever, ever, again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you think she made it to sophomore year?



Janet Cooke said:


> Yes, and there are thefts of walnuts in CA since they have tripled in price and people commit murder for pay and people steal expensive cars under contract.
> Let's not have any laws regarding commerce, though, because people will break those laws.
> Do you not understand how sophomoric an argument that is?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you implying that *all* parents are high all the time and can't monitor their children?
> 
> Have you ever had children?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Bravo!



MaidInBedlam said:


> Oh, that's rich. In case you didn't know, many parents are not under the influence of any drugs or liquor at all. They're too exhausted from working all hours to even remember they HAVE children. They leave the care of their children to the public schools, TV, after school activities, and don't even bother to eat dinner as a family. Think of the recent several school shootings and how easy it is for 12 year olds to get their hands on Mommy and Daddy's guns. Parents are obliged to keep their guns, booze, and prescription medications locked up good and tight so their unsupervised children can't get at them. Same goes for marijuana. You just want to believe marijuana is somehow worse than having guns available to anyone in any particular home. If a kid can get their hands on items at home they have no business touching, and if they can find a way to get a fake ID, their parents are NOT doing their job. Parenthood doesn't end at the moment the kid pops out of the womb. Perhaps that'sanother thing you aren't aware of.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Uh oh. With all of this gov't spying, do you think I can be arrested for possession of stolen walnuts????


If you are you won't spend nearly as much time in jail as some urban kid with a joint in his pocket.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not until Chris Christie becomes pres.



BrattyPatty said:


> Uh oh. With all of this gov't spying, do you think I can be arrested for possession of stolen walnuts????


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitry said:


> Me too. Especially when I pointed that out in some of what I shared. LOL. But no matter -- you got it now.
> 
> Now, I don't know if this is of importance to you, but it is to me, and I really want to repeat this as well: They (NSA, etc.) are already actively and INDIVIDUALLY spying on Congress -- basically all of it, the Supreme Court Justices (and no doubt other federal judges), and so forth and so on.
> 
> ...


In fiction it would be because the General has something on them. It helps to know where all the bodies are buried.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she can't--and her grasp of American history is pretty weak as well.
> 
> LTL: What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic."
> 
> Her knowledge is truly pathetic--Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolution, not the Potomac. The Potomac River is the one he supposedly threw a silver dollar across as a young man.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Thank you. Thank you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> lovethelake must have had her brain frozen. What a brain child she is, no wonder she never got into any trouble as a child. That Angel has a secure place in that imaginary space - she hopes and we know better.


I need 3 Excedrin. She sucks the life out of me sometimes.


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## Lkholcomb (Aug 25, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she can't--and her grasp of American history is pretty weak as well.
> 
> LTL: What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic."
> 
> Her knowledge is truly pathetic-- * Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolution, not the Potomac. The Potomac River is the one he supposedly threw a silver dollar across as a young man.*


 :XD: :XD: :lol: :lol: :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> In fiction it would be because the General has something on them. It helps to know where all the bodies are buried.


Would the General be working for the government or a corporation?
I am not so sure that it matters who of the "elite" coerces certain votes by our reps in Congress if those votes work against the US resident.


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## Knitry (Dec 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not until Chris Christie becomes pres.












OMG. I'm surrounded by liberal comedians. Too funny.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> 2:00 and no snow
> 
> Those poor Federal workers not stuck at home because of snow. Well maybe they are helping grow the economy and shopping at the malls. Hope they get wool sweaters, going to be cold tomorrow. Oh dear, maybe too cold for the snow victims to make it to work


I'm sure that the President is just sitting in front of his TV with a beer and Doritos cackling at how John Q. Public is being fleeced(no pun intended.) Do you hate state workers as much?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Uh oh. With all of this gov't spying, do you think I can be arrested for possession of stolen walnuts????


Depends on whose walnuts they are, lol. Oh, wait, you mean tree nuts!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Depends on whose walnuts they are, lol. Oh, wait, you mean tree nuts!!


One set of nuts is as good as another.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The kind of regulation Seattle is going for would only cause an underground movement. The growers will not sit by and let every aspect of their "business" be taxed. Let us keep it real. Only a certain amount will be visible for taxation purposes, the rest will be hidden. Even the average person will not stop at just 3-4 plants a year. Where the pot is grown will be very creative, I'm sure. I see pot subsidies in the future. :twisted: :twisted:


Yup, and it'll be rich Republican farmers like Michelle Bachmann's family collecting there. It will be wild in the streets, with stoners, their parents, and their grandparents wreaking havoc. Oops, no, pot users will be asleep or buying noshables. Then come new clothes, etc, as they rapidly outgrow their old ones. Everybody wins!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> One set of nuts is as good as another.


You guys crack me up!! :lol: :lol: :lol: 
Just watched Ultra Sound Bob give a pathetic speech as he leaves office. Funny that the only 2 governors elected in the last big race were O'Donnell and Christie. And both are up to their necks in trouble. Neither is my governor, but I say good riddance to O'Donnell. One macadamia down, many more to go.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Yup, and it'll be rich Republican farmers like Michelle Bachmann's family collecting there. It will be wild in the streets, with stoners, their parents, and their grandparents wreaking havoc. Oops, no, pot users will be asleep or buying noshables. Then come new clothes, etc, as they rapidly outgrow their old ones. Everybody wins!!


Bachmann Is afraid of gays let alone pot smoking straight or gay folks. They can change their clinic's name to "Smoke away the Gay".


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I need 3 Excedrin. She sucks the life out of me sometimes.


I have to wonder what is like for those she lives with. 
Toss those Excedrin over here!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she can't--and her grasp of American history is pretty weak as well.
> 
> LTL: What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic."
> 
> Her knowledge is truly pathetic--Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolution, not the Potomac. The Potomac River is the one he supposedly threw a silver dollar across as a young man.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitry said:


> Me too. Especially when I pointed that out in some of what I shared. LOL. But no matter -- you got it now.
> 
> Now, I don't know if this is of importance to you, but it is to me, and I really want to repeat this as well: They (NSA, etc.) are already actively and INDIVIDUALLY spying on Congress -- basically all of it, the Supreme Court Justices (and no doubt other federal judges), and so forth and so on.
> 
> ...


Sad that both parties while waving American flags as we sent troops to murder Iraqis all voted for this under the Patriot Act. As for some congressmen, I am glad they are being watched. Some of them scare the hell out of me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> If you are you won't spend nearly as much time in jail as some urban kid with a joint in his pocket.


I say let the kid have his joint! No more mandatory minimums on pot possession charges.Looks like Seattle is a little tougher than Colorado on their laws. A person can have up to 12 pot plants at one time in Col. Seattle is 3 or 4 in a year? What fun is that?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I say let the kid have his joint! No more mandatory minimums on pot possession charges.Looks like Seattle is a little tougher than Colorado on their laws. A person can have up to 12 pot plants at one time in Col. Seattle is 3 or 4 in a year? What fun is that?


3 or 4 would be plenty at my house 2 of the 4 adults here have random drug testing at their jobs. One of those two has been tested twice in 2 months.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bachmann Is afraid of gays let alone pot smoking straight or gay folks. They can change their clinic's name to "Smoke away the Gay".


Only if they buy their pot from her family farm--"Smoke Away the Gay," that's a good one. There'd be folks lined up to smoke away their hangnails, what have you. And the cure would only work if the pot came from the Bachmann factory farm.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitry said:


> You know, it almost feels to me like they all went "offline" (off-thread, really), and huddled like a football team and then came swarming back into the game with a new play to try. Almost all of them gone completely, and then almost all of them back all at once. Very odd.


I think they had to hide for a while because of the praise KPG lavished on Christie, which came back to bite her. It's true, though; until today it was no more than one of them on any day; today, three or four?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think they had to hide for a while because of the praise KPG lavished on Christie, which came back to bite her. It's true, though; until today it was no more than one of them on any day; today, three or four?


We are just irresistible.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> You don't know when to quit.


She's all heart.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Oh, and the rest of you folks who like to explore a bit and have not yet found the thread about "the first book you read and loved..." should really go contribute. 
It is a nice thread for reminiscing and being cordial.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Oh, and the rest of you folks who like to explore a bit and have not yet found the thread about "the first book you read and loved..." should really go contribute.
> It is a nice thread for reminiscing and being cordial.


Has the storm hit yet, Empress Purl?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she can't--and her grasp of American history is pretty weak as well.
> 
> LTL: What about the children not being able to access federal programs? What about the veterans that need help? Oh this is horrible that a few flakes are more powerful than the Federal Government? Thank goodness George Washington didn't let a few flakes stop him from crossing the Potomac River during the Revolutionary War. Pathetic."
> 
> Her knowledge is truly pathetic--Washington crossed the Delaware during the Revolution, not the Potomac. The Potomac River is the one he supposedly threw a silver dollar across as a young man.


Susan, you've come through for me again. Thank you for noticing that and correcting it. I didn't, though now that I think of it, the painting is George Washington Crossing the Delaware, not the Potomac.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Or she could keep her thoughts to herself instead of giving me a headache.


Don't let her know it bothers you. That will only make her do it more.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> True but we can roll on the floor laughing because we do have a sense of the absurd.


A sense that's an absolute necessity around here.


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