# Socks with Strong heel



## BigIslandKnitter (Jul 28, 2012)

My favorite sock pattern (so far) has been top down on 9 inch circulars. I've probably made a half dozen pairs, but am never very happy with how the heel looks where I pick up the stitches. So I am always looking for alternate methods and came across a pattern for the Strong heel. I really liked how easy it was to knit but I'm not sure I'm totally happy with the appearance. Seems like the ankle is really BIG, but this was my first try and maybe next time I can improve upon my beginning effort. I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences with the Strong heel.

The yarn used in this pair was Knitpicks Felici Sock Yarn which, by the way, just became available again.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Oh I like those ones!!


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## Elin (Sep 17, 2011)

Love those identical twins! Great colors, too. Sorry I can't guide you regarding your ankles and heels; I've only made a few pairs with eye of partridge heel.


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## deemail (Jan 25, 2011)

first, lovely socks....I make all my heels with the old fashioned flap because it looks great, fits well and is strong. I use 1.5 strands (I cut off 5 yards of yarn from the other end of the ball, split it in two just like you do with needlepoint threads, bend in middle, untwist a bit, separate out 2 plies that want to be together and pull from that point, don't untwist the plies, just hold one end of the yarn loosely in your left hand and use your right hand to pull 2 strands THRU the yarn....then turn and pull the same 2 strands thru the other end....5 yards will be enough to strengthen both heel and toe of one sock, and now you have the other 5 yd pc (2 strands) to do the other sock, as well.

As for fitting the heel....I go to 3/4" ABOVE the 1st heel flap row, find center back st(sts) (the one straight up from the hanging cast on thread). Knit to 4 sts before center, k2tog 4 times (2 times on one side of ctr, 2 on the other). You have taken 8 sts and made them 4, creating a tiny 'pinch' right at the smallest part of your ankle. This keeps my heel sitting in the right place, and it never rides down into the shoe. You would do this 3/4" AFTER making the heel if doing toe up. It really is worth trying it is comfy and simple.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


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## 81brighteyes (Feb 17, 2011)

If they are comfortable on your feet, I would not worry about the appearance of the heel. No one will see it except you. They are very pretty.


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## chubs (Nov 5, 2011)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


Picking up gusset stitches is hardest part for me on doing socks. then once I get that done and do my decreases I feel like I have won a battle.....


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## romagica (Jul 30, 2014)

FLK Heel. I only use the FLK heel.


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## alliep (Nov 6, 2014)

Hi I just got a new sock pattern that has a slightly different Strong heel. It's called Vanilla is the New Black and it's available on Ravelry.
The back of the heel has a chevron pattern to it and it looks very nice. And because of the Strong heel it can be worn inside out or right side out.
Can't wait to try it! you might take a look at it.
Cindy


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

Great socks!


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

Enjoy your socks!
I made a pair of socks out of Felici yarn I was so please how they wash up. I wish I could order the yarn whenever.


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## Irish knitter (Mar 29, 2011)

Guess....what....???? I am getting some felici RAINBOW........I am one happy dudette.......that color sure looks nice also......hummmm.....
I read that strong sock post but half way through I thought......I'm gonna have to print this out. Thank You I think that heel looks nice and I need some strong heels for the Grandkidlets socks.....

Personally I think Felici should be a regular AND bring back the lollipop!


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## tdorminey (Mar 22, 2011)

grandmann said:


> Enjoy your socks!
> I made a pair of socks out of Felici yarn I was so please how they wash up. I wish I could order the yarn whenever.


Check out on Knit Picks website - Felici is back!


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## romagica (Jul 30, 2014)

What's so great about Felici?


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Irish knitter said:


> ...I need some strong heels for the Grandkidlets socks.....!


Just a little factoid - they're called strong heels because the designer's last name was Strong. So they won't be any more durable than another heel.


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## tdorminey (Mar 22, 2011)

jvallas said:


> Just a little factoid - they're called strong heels because the designer's last name was Strong. So they won't be any more durable than another heel.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Howdi95 (Apr 17, 2011)

Lovely socks. Tried imagining how to knit the Strong Heel described - without much luck! and will carry on with my usual heel. None of my heels are showing signs of wear and I've got it off pat now, so I'll stick with what I know.


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## Marcelley (Oct 5, 2015)

WHat a lovely pair of socks. JUst mastered my first pair so I will definitely try the Strong heel method in time


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## slmhuffman (Apr 15, 2015)

I have enjoyed this conversation about socks. I have my first pair which I started years ago, got to the heel, and couldn't figure it out and they are still waiting for me. Will get to them soon (I hope). Other projects just seem to get in the way!! Again, thanks for the info.


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## NanaMc (Sep 22, 2014)

Great socks! I made a pair of socks a couple of years ago with the Felici.


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## marywallis (Mar 18, 2012)

May I ask also, what is so special about knitpicks felicity sock yarn? Thinking about ordering this yarn. Thank you, mw


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## sophie11 (Nov 22, 2011)

Felici, Great yarn from knit picks. Wonderful colors and so soft. Makes great sox or anything else you want to make with it. Has long colorways so you can put a simple pattern in them if you want to. Knit picks only has it a couple times a year and I always order way to much when available.


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## LindaH (Feb 1, 2011)

Very nice work!!


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## yooperdooper (Jan 3, 2013)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I'm very interested and would love to have that pattern


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## jan26 (Mar 23, 2013)

(Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.)

I would be interested in the heel pattern also. Thanks in advance.


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## carmicv (Mar 21, 2014)

tdorminey said:


> Check out on Knit Picks website - Felici is back!


How many balls do I need for a pair of ladies socks. It states 50g but no yardage.


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## betty boivin (Sep 12, 2012)

I have also bought the vanill is the new black pattern, will try it this summer at campground, but i am in the process of knitting a pair of socks with cat bordhi sweet tomoato heel, fun, no stitches to pick up either!!! When i knit socks, say i start out with 68 sts. Knit the cuff, then decrease 4sts. Knit the leg length desired, then decrease 4sts again. They fit snug! Have fun!


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## Debiknit (Jul 7, 2011)

The important issue here I think, is how do they fit? I think they look great. What size needle did you do them with?


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## PammySue (Jan 17, 2016)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I'd also be interested.


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## Julek5p5 (Feb 24, 2015)

Beautiful socks and love the colors! Thanks for sharing.


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## Julek5p5 (Feb 24, 2015)

Beautiful socks and love the colors! Thanks for sharing.


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## cableaway (Aug 1, 2013)

Great socks, love the color.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Naughty Knitter (Apr 1, 2011)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I would love to try your faux heel flap. No picking up stitches sounds really good to me. Thanks


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## pyfairy (Dec 7, 2013)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I am always interested in a new method or technique. Please include me if you have enough time and interest in putting it down on paper.


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## tami_ohio (Mar 22, 2011)

carmicv said:


> How many balls do I need for a pair of ladies socks. It states 50g but no yardage.


Usually 2 50g balls are enough for a pair of ladies socks. Yardage us 218 yds per 50g ball

Copied from Knit Picks web site:

fiber Content: 75% Superwash Merino Wool, 25% Nylon
Weight: Fingering Weight
Knitting Gauge: 7 - 8 sts = 1" on #1 - 3 needles (2.25mm-3.25mm)
Crochet Gauge: 21 - 32 sc = 4'' on B - E hooks (2.25mm-3.5mm)
Yards: 218
Grams: 50
Put Up: ball
Care: Machine Washable/Tumble Dry Low


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## marty1136 (Aug 2, 2011)

I just finished socks useing the pattern vanilla is the new black and I love the heel it's easy to work and very confortableits my new go to heel


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## feltit (Sep 27, 2012)

I love the Strong Heel. It's great if you don't like to pick up stitches. I find it fits great.


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## Mabonko (Dec 31, 2013)

They look fine to me... They hide in the shoe anyway, so it's just a thing between you & the sock you made.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Pretty sock, but yes the ankles are a bit fat. Where this you fined the pattern for the strong heel?


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

jan26 said:


> (Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.)
> 
> I would be interested in the heel pattern also. Thanks in advance.


OK. Now I'm wondering what I've gotten myself into. :sm09: It isn't a pattern. I'll try to write it out so it makes sense. Basically it's working the faux heel flap from Liat Gat's pattern in reverse. I'll try to get it done today and post my little hope it makes sense how to.


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## RavinRed (Apr 18, 2011)

Thanks for the pattern....I just put it in my favorites on Ravelry....looks really interesting...cannot wait to try it!



alliep said:


> Hi I just got a new sock pattern that has a slightly different Strong heel. It's called Vanilla is the New Black and it's available on Ravelry.
> The back of the heel has a chevron pattern to it and it looks very nice. And because of the Strong heel it can be worn inside out or right side out.
> Can't wait to try it! you might take a look at it.
> Cindy


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## catherine nehse (Jun 4, 2015)

I'm not a sock knitter so can't comment on technique, but they're beautiful


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## 33141 (Aug 24, 2011)

BigIslandKnitter said:


> My favorite sock pattern (so far) has been top down on 9 inch circulars..... Seems like the ankle is really BIG, but this was my first try and maybe next time I can improve upon my beginning effort.....


Hi, I wonder if when you reached the ankle area, if you could go down a needle size, then when you are past that area that seemed too big, go back to the original needle size. That way you don't have to do decreases, then increases. I've seen designer's use this trick for waist shaping when they didn't want a line of decreases in the garment. One's eye tends to overlook the slight change in stitch size.


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## Shellydee (Mar 30, 2016)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


Would love to know more about this pattern.


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## rkr (Aug 15, 2012)

I've always wondered this - as my feet/legs seem to be oddballs: Is the 'ankle area' considered to be the center back of the heel (at the farthest most point outward) diagonally up to the front center where the foot becomes the leg? Or is it horizontally around the true ankle and just above?
I ask because I seem to need a wider (horizontal) ankle and a much narrower/shorter heel than is given for each standard size measurement. So I have to design a blend of 2 different sock theories for mine. i welcome input on a patt w/these features as component elements.


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## priscillapaisley (Jul 29, 2015)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


Very interested, thank you. Priscilla


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

deemail said:


> first, lovely socks....I make all my heels with the old fashioned flap because it looks great, fits well and is strong. I use 1.5 strands (I cut off 5 yards of yarn from the other end of the ball, split it in two just like you do with needlepoint threads, bend in middle, untwist a bit, separate out 2 plies that want to be together and pull from that point, don't untwist the plies, just hold one end of the yarn loosely in your left hand and use your right hand to pull 2 strands THRU the yarn....then turn and pull the same 2 strands thru the other end....5 yards will be enough to strengthen both heel and toe of one sock, and now you have the other 5 yd pc (2 strands) to do the other sock, as well.
> 
> As for fitting the heel....I go to 3/4" ABOVE the 1st heel flap row, find center back st(sts) (the one straight up from the hanging cast on thread). Knit to 4 sts before center, k2tog 4 times (2 times on one side of ctr, 2 on the other). You have taken 8 sts and made them 4, creating a tiny 'pinch' right at the smallest part of your ankle. This keeps my heel sitting in the right place, and it never rides down into the shoe. You would do this 3/4" AFTER making the heel if doing toe up. It really is worth trying it is comfy and simple.


I don't knit socks much anymore, but when I do make any, I have saved your post so I will be able to refer to it.
Great tips and clearly expressed!


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## Bulldog (Mar 25, 2011)

I use the FLK heel. It fits my heel snugly. I had a knitting guru say that she feared the strength of this heel and felt it was structurally weak. I haven't had a problem.


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## Grandma Jo (Feb 18, 2011)

I always use the old fashioned flap heel for my socks and see no reason to change.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

For those many people asking for the Strong heel, here is her Ravelry page: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/basic-strong-heel-socks
And a PDF: http://www.knittinguniverse.com/downloads/strongsocks/conservative.pdf?Accept=%20%20Accept


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## blawler (Feb 20, 2012)

Great job of matching!!! These are truly identical twins. Aloha... Bev


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

top down grafting toe--not my thing. Nice looking heel though without the flap look.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Ask4j said:


> top down grafting toe--not my thing. Nice looking heel though without the flap look.


Just in case you ever want to do top down, there are other toes - star toe, round toe, the kind you draw together, some people do 3-needle bindoff (that doesn't sound comfy to me), and I think you'll find more with a search.

A couple here: http://www.knittingdaily.com/blogs/knitting-daily/the-humble-sock/


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Ask4j said:


> top down grafting toe--not my thing. Nice looking heel though without the flap look.


To many of us, there is nothing wrong with "the flap look." The topdown flap heel sock with grafted toe can be done very well.
The flap heel works well for me because it's easy to adjust for my high instep.
Let us all be respectful of each other's choices. (????=not saying this in a snarky manner.)


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## craft crazy (Mar 13, 2012)

GrumpyGramma said:



> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I would definitely be interested in your heel method!
Thanks
Karen


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

they are great socks


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## Beatrix1957 (Jun 1, 2016)

I would love to know how you did that please.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

rkr said:


> I've always wondered this - as my feet/legs seem to be oddballs: Is the 'ankle area' considered to be the center back of the heel (at the farthest most point outward) diagonally up to the front center where the foot becomes the leg? Or is it horizontally around the true ankle and just above?
> I ask because I seem to need a wider (horizontal) ankle and a much narrower/shorter heel than is given for each standard size measurement. So I have to design a blend of 2 different sock theories for mine. i welcome input on a patt w/these features as component elements.


I just found this. Might be helpful. It shows myriad measurements. What I saw once and never found again was how to measure for the instep. I think mine is "normal" but because of the way I like 'em snug I seem to need a high or very high instep gusset. Custom fit is the only reason I knit socks. That and I go through withdrawal whenever I finish a pair and don't have another going.
http://appleleeffarm.com/PDFs/cstmsck1.pdf

ETA Oh, wow! This has the heel diagonal included. Maybe that's what I've been looking for for the instep dilemma. I solved my dilemma actually by figuring out what works for me. https://sockclub.bluemoonfiberarts.com/sites/default/files/Size%20Matters_updaterequest&findings_20121203.pdf


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## starrz-delight (Dec 5, 2011)

tdorminey said:


> Check out on Knit Picks website - Felici is back!


It is incredibly soft, and supple and easy to knit with, and the colors are awesome, and and can't say enough good aBOUT IT


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

GrumpyGramma said:


> I just found this. Might be helpful. It shows myriad measurements. What I saw once and never found again was how to measure for the instep. I think mine is "normal" but because of the way I like 'em snug I seem to need a high or very high instep gusset. Custom fit is the only reason I knit socks. That and I go through withdrawal whenever I finish a pair and don't have another going.
> http://appleleeffarm.com/PDFs/cstmsck1.pdf
> 
> ETA Oh, wow! This has the heel diagonal included. Maybe that's what I've been looking for for the instep dilemma. I solved my dilemma actually by figuring out what works for me. https://sockclub.bluemoonfiberarts.com/sites/default/files/Size%20Matters_updaterequest&findings_20121203.pdf


Very informative links - thank you :sm01:


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## sevolnam (Jul 16, 2012)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


I am! PM me when you've gotten it all together... Looking forward it!


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## rkr (Aug 15, 2012)

GrumpyGramma said:


> I just found this. Might be helpful. It shows myriad measurements.


Thx GG! I've not seen either of these sites before. The 2nd actually lists Heel-diagonal! I'll read through this more thoroughly tonight - it may be the answers I'm looking for.
This past winter I didn't actually wear socks, due to 10 places where my spine was 'hard-wired' (fusion) late winter '15 and I cannot bend over far enough to get socks on. (Those dressing aids aren't that much more helpful.) So I used leg warmers and dropped them down to cover my ankles & heels. But I'm ever hopeful that my agility may improve-lol!!


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## binkister (Dec 1, 2014)

GrumpyGramma wrote:
Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.

I am pm me please also. Thanks Myra


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## spoppers (Nov 12, 2013)

I have made 3 pairs of socks with the 
Strong heel and love it. For self patterning yarn it is ideal. I hate picking up yarn at end of a heel turn and this eliminates that. It does require a very long heel turn, but at the end you are ready to be back working with the same number of stitches for top of foot and insole. I also am a magic loop sock knitter. I estimate that the Strong heel saves me two to three hours of work.


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## gsxr (Jul 23, 2014)

Definitely interested!


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## Bubba24 (Jan 2, 2012)

I love your socks. I've never heard of the strong heel.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

GrumpyGramma said:


> Working a Strong heel is still in my future so I can't comment there. I can however tell you how I did a top down sock with a faux heel flap and not a single picked up stitch. Interested? Trying to write it out so it makes sense to anybody other than me is time consuming so I'll wait to see if anyone wants to know about it.


Please keep us informed :sm01: It is always interesting to find out how people create socks and get them to fit!


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## tami_ohio (Mar 22, 2011)

rkr said:


> I've always wondered this - as my feet/legs seem to be oddballs: Is the 'ankle area' considered to be the center back of the heel (at the farthest most point outward) diagonally up to the front center where the foot becomes the leg? Or is it horizontally around the true ankle and just above?
> I ask because I seem to need a wider (horizontal) ankle and a much narrower/shorter heel than is given for each standard size measurement. So I have to design a blend of 2 different sock theories for mine. i welcome input on a patt w/these features as component elements.


I have always figured that the ankle was the horizontal ankle. I need to make my socks (I am quite fluffy) 72 stitches cuff down until just before the ankle, which I decrease gradually to 64 stitches. I usually do my heel flap 2 1/2 inches long, and my foot continues at 64 stitches. My DH on the other hand, has a very high instep, and needs his heel flap between 3 and 3 1/2 inches to fit well. I do all my socks magic loop on size US2 needles. I started with a basic sock pattern 15 years ago. I prefer cuff down, but have done a few toe up for someone I wasn't sure of fit wise. Once I knew how many stitches I needed where, and how long the heel flap needed to be, I did any further pair for them top down. You might try doing a simple short sneaker type sock using just a basic sock pattern, casting on the needed stitches for your ankle and knitting for about 1 1/2 inches in ribbing. Then do your heel, and here I would measure from your ankle bone to the floor for an idea of how long to make the heel flap. Then finish your heel and foot as you normally would, or even just part of the foot, to get an idea of how the sock fits. You can always make a sock with fewer stitches in the cuff, increase to the needed stitches for your ankle, then do you heel and foot as needed. I seldom put any design stitches in my socks, so it is easy for me to make adjustments. Hope this helps.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

rkr said:


> Thx GG! I've not seen either of these sites before. The 2nd actually lists Heel-diagonal! I'll read through this more thoroughly tonight - it may be the answers I'm looking for.
> This past winter I didn't actually wear socks, due to 10 places where my spine was 'hard-wired' (fusion) late winter '15 and I cannot bend over far enough to get socks on. (Those dressing aids aren't that much more helpful.) So I used leg warmers and dropped them down to cover my ankles & heels. But I'm ever hopeful that my agility may improve-lol!!


I sure hope things improve for you. That's no fun. :sm26:

I looked again at the 2nd link and didn't see much help really. If someone else can glean something from it, wonderful.


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## PauletteB (Mar 10, 2011)

I was having problems with my heal also. I was doing the short row. I went to the Knit Picks tutorials and found different heals, now my favorite heel is the s1,k1 . it is very strong. Do not remember the name right now.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

tami_ohio said:


> I have always figured that the ankle was the horizontal ankle. I need to make my socks (I am quite fluffy) 72 stitches cuff down until just before the ankle, which I decrease gradually to 64 stitches. I usually do my heel flap 2 1/2 inches long, and my foot continues at 64 stitches. My DH on the other hand, has a very high instep, and needs his heel flap between 3 and 3 1/2 inches to fit well. I do all my socks magic loop on size US2 needles. I started with a basic sock pattern 15 years ago. I prefer cuff down, but have done a few toe up for someone I wasn't sure of fit wise. Once I knew how many stitches I needed where, and how long the heel flap needed to be, I did any further pair for them top down. You might try doing a simple short sneaker type sock using just a basic sock pattern, casting on the needed stitches for your ankle and knitting for about 1 1/2 inches in ribbing. Then do your heel, and here I would measure from your ankle bone to the floor for an idea of how long to make the heel flap. Then finish your heel and foot as you normally would, or even just part of the foot, to get an idea of how the sock fits. You can always make a sock with fewer stitches in the cuff, increase to the needed stitches for your ankle, then do you heel and foot as needed. I seldom put any design stitches in my socks, so it is easy for me to make adjustments. Hope this helps.


Help me understand why the length of the heel flap is important for a high instep. Mine is high so I'd like to know how to use this whenever I start knitting socks. I did a pair about 10 years ago with an instructor who had me use heavy worsted cotton yarn and they felt like steel grates under my feet. I hated them and haven't knit a pair of socks since. Obviously, I later learned that finer yarn makes all the difference in the world, so I'd like to try again.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

jvallas said:


> For those many people asking for the Strong heel, here is her Ravelry page: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/basic-strong-heel-socks
> And a PDF: http://www.knittinguniverse.com/downloads/strongsocks/conservative.pdf?Accept=%20%20Accept


Thank you, jvallas. I saw that there is an errata link on Ravelry. Does the pattern download that you attached have the correction?


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Nitting_More said:


> Help me understand why the length of the heel flap is important for a high instep. Mine is high so I'd like to know how to use this whenever I start knitting socks. I did a pair about 10 years ago with an instructor who had me use heavy worsted cotton yarn and they felt like steel grates under my feet. I hated them and haven't knit a pair of socks since. Obviously, I later learned that finer yarn makes all the difference in the world, so I'd like to try again.


Because if you make a longer heel flap, then you will have to pick up more stitches on each side of it. More stitches in that area means more room in the instep.
That's why, even though I don't knit many socks, I use a "formula" type pattern that is easily adjustable.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Because if you make a longer heel flap, then you will have to pick up more stitches on each side of it. More stitches in that area means more room in the instep.
> That's why, even though I don't knit many socks, I use a "formula" type pattern that is easily adjustable.


That makes perfect sense. Thank you for the explanation.
Have a great day!


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Nitting_More said:


> Help me understand why the length of the heel flap is important for a high instep. Mine is high so I'd like to know how to use this whenever I start knitting socks. I did a pair about 10 years ago with an instructor who had me use heavy worsted cotton yarn and they felt like steel grates under my feet. I hated them and haven't knit a pair of socks since. Obviously, I later learned that finer yarn makes all the difference in the world, so I'd like to try again.


It's amazing how much difference the yarn used makes, isn't it? I don't care for short row heels without a gusset because for me they just plain don't fit. If you work toe up you can make the gusset first and then decrease the added stitches out after you turn the heel. Nitting_More's explanation is good for top down.


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## tami_ohio (Mar 22, 2011)

Nitting_More said:


> Help me understand why the length of the heel flap is important for a high instep. Mine is high so I'd like to know how to use this whenever I start knitting socks. I did a pair about 10 years ago with an instructor who had me use heavy worsted cotton yarn and they felt like steel grates under my feet. I hated them and haven't knit a pair of socks since. Obviously, I later learned that finer yarn makes all the difference in the world, so I'd like to try again.


The longer heel flap gives room for the instep to fit into the sock. If you follow the usual basic (or other sock patters, for that matter) that use a slip one, knit one across for one row, and slip one, purl across repeated for X number of rows, it fits an average foot. Who's foot is average? Not anyone's that I know! When I started knitting socks (my second project when I learned to knit!) the pattern I used was Ann Norling's Basic Adult Socks pattern. It is written for 3 different weights of yarn. As I need the extra room in the top of the sock, my instructor told me to cast on extra stitches in multiples of 4 until I found a number that worked well for me. I can't tell you what number I used the first time, as that was 14 or 15 years ago. Anyway, the pattern does tell you how many rows to knit the heel flap, but I don't remember that either! I would have to find the pattern. I have it memorized to fit those I knit socks for. I think it was something like a total of 36 rows? Which ends up for me to be about 2 1/2 inches. When I made my DH's first pair, because he has a high instep, she told me if he needed the extra room to get his foot into the sock with out having it too loose on his foot, to make the heel flap longer. It just means you have to decrease a few more times to get back to the original number of stitches, but the sock fits very well. You have to experiment a little to get it to fit just right (keep notes!), but once you do, you can make all of your socks custom fit to your feet! If you use a thicker yarn, you will need fewer stitches cast on for cuff and foot, so you will have to experiment again.

I use sock or fingering yarn (same thing) which can also be called a #2 weight yarn.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

marywallis said:


> May I ask also, what is so special about knitpicks felicity sock yarn? Thinking about ordering this yarn. Thank you, mw


I made my hubby a pair of socks with Felici, it took two skeins. The two skeins worked well for me because I knit socks with two circulars. When I was done I didn't have any left-overs. The yarn was so smooth to work with when I was knitting. I washed the socks twice and the socks come out after the washings like the first day I knitted them. Oh so very soft and kept their shape.


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## BigIslandKnitter (Jul 28, 2012)

Thanks everyone for your responses. I found the pattern for the Strong heel in the book, "The Sock Knitter's Handbook", by Charlene Schurch and Beth Parrott. I may have to try the Vanilla is the New Black heel....looks interesting. I'd also like to know more about GrumpyGramma's faux heel flap. As others have mentioned, Felici yarn is very soft and comes in lovely colors and I especially appreciate the long repeats. That makes it much easier to match the socks.


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## sanditoes48 (Feb 6, 2013)

deemail said:


> first, lovely socks....I make all my heels with the old fashioned flap because it looks great, fits well and is strong. I use 1.5 strands (I cut off 5 yards of yarn from the other end of the ball, split it in two just like you do with needlepoint threads, bend in middle, untwist a bit, separate out 2 plies that want to be together and pull from that point, don't untwist the plies, just hold one end of the yarn loosely in your left hand and use your right hand to pull 2 strands THRU the yarn....then turn and pull the same 2 strands thru the other end....5 yards will be enough to strengthen both heel and toe of one sock, and now you have the other 5 yd pc (2 strands) to do the other sock, as well.
> 
> As for fitting the heel....I go to 3/4" ABOVE the 1st heel flap row, find center back st(sts) (the one straight up from the hanging cast on thread). Knit to 4 sts before center, k2tog 4 times (2 times on one side of ctr, 2 on the other). You have taken 8 sts and made them 4, creating a tiny 'pinch' right at the smallest part of your ankle. This keeps my heel sitting in the right place, and it never rides down into the shoe. You would do this 3/4" AFTER making the heel if doing toe up. It really is worth trying it is comfy and simple.


Thanks for these tips :sm17: I've bookmarked this and will give it a try..


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

BigIslandKnitter said:


> Thanks everyone for your responses. I found the pattern for the Strong heel in the book, "The Sock Knitter's Handbook", by Charlene Schurch and Beth Parrott. I may have to try the Vanilla is the New Black heel....looks interesting. I'd also like to know more about GrumpyGramma's faux heel flap. As others have mentioned, Felici yarn is very soft and comes in lovely colors and I especially appreciate the long repeats. That makes it much easier to match the socks.


For good or ill I started a thread for explaining how I did it. Lets just hope I can do it again and explain what I'm doing at the same time. All comments and questions are welcome. Please understand that _it is not a pattern_. It's me attempting to explain what I'm doing.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-410479-1.html


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

Nitting_More said:


> Thank you, jvallas. I saw that there is an errata link on Ravelry. Does the pattern download that you attached have the correction?


I don't actually know. You'd probably need to compare the errata page to the pattern.


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## Nitting_More (Nov 8, 2011)

tami_ohio said:


> The longer heel flap gives room for the instep to fit into the sock. If you follow the usual basic (or other sock patters, for that matter) that use a slip one, knit one across for one row, and slip one, purl across repeated for X number of rows, it fits an average foot. Who's foot is average? Not anyone's that I know! When I started knitting socks (my second project when I learned to knit!) the pattern I used was Ann Norling's Basic Adult Socks pattern. It is written for 3 different weights of yarn. As I need the extra room in the top of the sock, my instructor told me to cast on extra stitches in multiples of 4 until I found a number that worked well for me. I can't tell you what number I used the first time, as that was 14 or 15 years ago. Anyway, the pattern does tell you how many rows to knit the heel flap, but I don't remember that either! I would have to find the pattern. I have it memorized to fit those I knit socks for. I think it was something like a total of 36 rows? Which ends up for me to be about 2 1/2 inches. When I made my DH's first pair, because he has a high instep, she told me if he needed the extra room to get his foot into the sock with out having it too loose on his foot, to make the heel flap longer. It just means you have to decrease a few more times to get back to the original number of stitches, but the sock fits very well. You have to experiment a little to get it to fit just right (keep notes!), but once you do, you can make all of your socks custom fit to your feet! If you use a thicker yarn, you will need fewer stitches cast on for cuff and foot, so you will have to experiment again.
> 
> I use sock or fingering yarn (same thing) which can also be called a #2 weight yarn.


I've been reading about socks for years now and there are just so many little tips to learn to make them fit 'right' or 'better.' This is one I hadn't heard about before and I think it's one of the more important ones. Thank you for elaborating on it for me.


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## tami_ohio (Mar 22, 2011)

Nitting_More said:


> I've been reading about socks for years now and there are just so many little tips to learn to make them fit 'right' or 'better.' This is one I hadn't heard about before and I think it's one of the more important ones. Thank you for elaborating on it for me.


You are welcome.


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