# Changing needle sizes when knitting socks



## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

This subject has come up several times here on KP. Many knitters think it is a good idea to knit the cuff on a larger needle, then switch to a smaller needle to knit the foot.

Common sense tells me to maintain gauge throughout the project and I prefer to add or subtract stitches for the cuff if necessary. Lace cuffs, color work, cables, etc. will pull the sock in (making it more narrow and tighter in the areas that have the lace, cables or color work. When I knit socks, I adjust stitches to adjust for increases and decreases in size along the leg. When I knit a sweater sleeve and want it to be smaller at the wrist, I decrease evenly from the upper arm to the cuff.... This is exactly what I do for a sock.

I was told by a "more experienced" knitter that my fair isle work is "beginner" level and once I learn to do "more advanced" color work.... It is more important to maintain pattern by changing needle sizes rather than adjusting my stitches.

Well, when I made the comment, I was in the process of knitting fair isle socks... My FAVORITE to knit.

I realized that even though I am doing "beginner" work, my method does work best.... Look at the photos below.. These are knee socks and I adjusted the fit by using increases and decreases (instead of switching needle sizes as I was told by a "more experienced" knitter).

Maintaining gauge and consistency is actually MORE important when you are doing more complicated work... Had I changed needle size instead of adding and subtracting stitches.... The entire pattern would have become "off" because of changing needle sizes! When you change needle sizes, you change gauge.... This will result in your stitches being larger and smaller and your pattern will NOT line up properly.

Just wanted to share my "learning experiences" as it may be useful to others who think changing needle sizes is a good idea when knitting socks.... You might find yourself with a mess by cutting corners (changing needle sizes instead of adjusting your stitches. Your color work will likely not line up, your cables and lace will also become crooked!

Link to one of the recent discussions on this subject....

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-252673-1.html


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## crispie (Dec 17, 2011)

thank you


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## Simpson (Mar 30, 2014)

Great job. The pattern and socks good great. Looks like a very experienced knitter did these.


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Perhaps it's that blonde thing again.

If what you are doing works for you that is just fine, but gradually changing needles size up and/or down does NOT affect any pattern. The changes are so gradual it in inconceivable to the naked eye (when done CORRECTLY that is). A lot of the expertise shared on KP has come from a hit and miss angle, has had the bugs worked out, and is actually great advice. 

Just because the adjustments you make work for you does not mean other methods will not work just as well. Every knitter has their own preferences and knows what works best for them. 

As you become more experienced with your knitting and learn the different and varied ways of finding solutions to different problems you may even come to appreciate the experiences of other knitters without the need to criticize. 

If your experience with changing needle size has not worked for you, perhaps you need to take a look at what went wrong in your experience instead of dismissing the method that works well for so many others as a whole - OR you could just simply say that this is the say I do it and it works great for me. You have much to offer Amy, but the ability to follow a chart does not an expert make. It would be great if you could at least show some respect for others who have a different way of doing things. Just sayin...


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## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

Amy, if you are a novice with fair isle knitting - I can't wait to see what you will produce in about five years time....they are fantastic...


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## Hohjocello (Jul 7, 2011)

Your mentor may be a "more experienced" knitter, but you are a better mathemetician, and this will serve you well as you continue to perfect your designs in the future. BTW, if the rest of your socks look this good, it seems that you are well on the way toward master knitter status!


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## Stitchtogether (Jan 22, 2012)

thanks for sharing this information


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Hohjocello said:


> Your mentor may be a "more experienced" knitter, but you are a better mathemetician, and this will serve you well as you continue to perfect your designs in the future. BTW, if the rest of your socks look this good, it seems that you are well on the way toward master knitter status!


Thank you. I had to prove it to myself and worked the pattern by increasing the needle size instead of increasing the stitches.... The larger stitches did not line up and it threw the whole pattern off.... I went back to adjusting the chart to maintain gauge and the pattern lined up correctly once again.


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## marilyngf (Nov 5, 2011)

I admire your tips and your finished projects Amy and I have been knitting for years. Keep up the good work.


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## gaseniorgal (Oct 29, 2011)

Awesome job and beautiful pattern. You did so good.


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Thank you. I had to prove it to myself and worked the pattern by increasing the needle size instead of increasing the stitches.... The larger stitches did not line up and it threw the whole pattern off.... I went back to adjusting the chart to maintain gauge and the pattern lined up correctly once again.


When you wear the socks the different parts of the foot, ankle, leg/calf distort the pattern by virtue of stretch - so in the end it really doesn't make any difference - when worn the pattern will always be distorted to a certain degree. Personally, I have NEVER had a problem with distortion when by changing needle size - if I did, I would do something different - but it works for me and my knitting. I do take my time and increase very gradually so perhaps that is the difference - I'm not in a red hot hurry to git her done - but again - whatever works for the individual knitter - no one knitter knits exactly like another. The beauty of a forum like KP is the platform to share what works for us and to learn and grow.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Mopgenorth ---- I'm with Amy on this one....whatever works and generates as wonderful of projects as hers always are is all right by me. Let's not make this a forum of rating (or berating) the work of others. If we were making things to be sent into a Guild of Experts for grades or a certification, then maybe some other rules may need to be followed, but on here I applaud and celebrate that there can be many different ways to achieve creativity. I definitely am a novice at doing stranded work and will keep these tips handy to see which way works best for me---it's nice to know that there are options.



mopgenorth said:


> you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Perhaps it's that blonde thing again.
> 
> If what you are doing works for you that is just fine, but gradually changing needles size up and/or down does NOT affect any pattern. The changes are so gradual it in inconceivable to the naked eye (when done CORRECTLY that is). A lot of the expertise shared on KP has come from a hit and miss angle, has had the bugs worked out, and is actually great advice.
> 
> ...


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## Buttons (Feb 11, 2011)

Most of the people in Knitting Paradise do think you are a very experienced knitter. We all envy you as you do such a great job. You share your patterns and knowledge with most experienced knitter do not. Don't let no one bully you about being an experience knitter, You're almost, in my eye, expert knitter.I wish I could knit like you. I would think that i am an advanced beginner but that is all. This is a hobby that we all love. I do not judge people on how experienced the are. If I like there item and I can make it, I do. If a free pattern, at this time.


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## KnittingNerd (Mar 28, 2012)

Thank you Amy  I have followed you through your sock knitting journey. I've been following right behind you and you've helped me greatly. I decided to follow your advice once again


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## sockit2me (Jan 26, 2013)

mopgenorth: Amy always shows us her work and explains her process and learning. You seem to criticize her at every turn...yet we have yet to SEE your work that would give you any right to be such a critic. Why the constant harshness and scolding??


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

I believe any knitter who has knitted more than one project on more than one size needle is aware that changing the size of your needle changes the size of your stitches.

We can all agree that for some projects this may not be noticeable. For patterns such as fair isle, ONE single stitch being off will distort the entire pattern. I only changed one needle size and could see I was off by a stitch and a half on the next round.... This is just a fact, not my opinion. 

If you are ok with how you do things and are fine with your fair isle being off a stitch or a few or your cable row being crooked, that is certainly your perogative. For me, it is not about what is quickest or easiest.. I have never been in a knitting race..... If that WERE the case, I would buy my socks at the store.

I strive to be a better knitter with each project. I will never stop learning if I live to be 200! 

If differences in your stitches are negligible and your socks will stretch and the pattern being off won't show anyways then this post is not for you. If you don't worry about your sock patterns lining up because they will be in your shoe and won't be seen after all...... and "nothing in life is perfect" anyways, then this post is clearly not for you.


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## Patsy Ruth (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Amy. I don't know what others are seeing but I am seeing "Expert Knitting" every time you post one of your beautiful projects. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## chickkie (Oct 26, 2011)

I am one that changes needle sizes on the way up the cuff. It doesn't seem to change anything except make the stitch a bit looser, and that is the purpose of changing the needle size for me.

Everyone does things different and I don't believe that one person has THE only way to do things. I have been knitting socks for many years, but have never done the fairisle work on socks that Amy does. That doesn't make me any less of a knitter if my product suits my purpose.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

chickkie said:


> I am one that changes needle sizes on the way up the cuff. It doesn't seem to change anything except make the stitch a bit looser, and that is the purpose of changing the needle size for me.
> 
> Everyone does things different and I don't believe that one person has THE only way to do things. I have been knitting socks for many years, but have never done the fairisle work on socks that Amy does. That doesn't make me any less of a knitter if my product suits my purpose.


I don't believe I (or anyone else) said there is "A" or THE way to do things. As I said in my post.... For many projects such as socks in stockinette or even ribbing, a change in gauge may not be obvious or unacceptable to some knitters.

The larger problem occurs when you add a lace pattern, color work or cable to your socks.... They will not line up properly as the stitches are different sizes. Think of a toddler lining up blocks... Then lining up some larger or smaller blocks... The same number of blocks will not line up the same.... the same goes for your stitches knitted on different needles.... They will not line up. For fair isle, this will cause your entire pattern to be off... Some knitters don't care about this..... I do.

I don't believe anyone said or implied that you are less of a knitter. The purpose of my post is to explain that should you attempt cables, color work or lace, you may want to reconsider how you work your sock increases.


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## purplelady (Aug 23, 2012)

I likee the way you are keeping your cool, Amy.
and the sox ain't bad neither, ;o]]
a fav color to meeeee..
bet


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## String Queen (Apr 9, 2012)

Beautiful socks Amy!!! 
Someday maybe I will have fair isle socks to go to the fair. This year they just have a bit of Lacey diamonds on the top. 
Thanks for sharing your beautiful work and insite

Robin


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## Shelgid (Feb 19, 2013)

I have only been knitting for a little over a year and thanks to Amy and Eric I can knit socks and I love doing them. I for one listen to all their ideas and hints and it helps so much. There will always be naysayers. Amy keep on telling us what you do. I never change needle size I do as you say and I love the socks I make. My goal next is to do fair isle, yours are beautiful.


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## guen12 (Jul 28, 2011)

My first sock attempt was done by following the instructions you shared. After 3 attempts, and 3 different sizes, and familiarizing myself with what the instructions are "trying" to tell me, I find your info and suggestions very helpful. I have never tried a "toe up" sock because, for the time being, the cuff down works fine for me. And I often tell myself "If it isn't broke don't fix it". Keep sharing your very helpful info. Works for me.


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## Jeannie2009 (Mar 8, 2013)

Those are some lovely socks. Personally, I usually use size 1 or 1.5 needles when working a pair of sox. But I switch to size zero for the toe and heel. For whatever reason, the heel area turns out larger than I like. Someone in our knitting club made this suggestion and it works for me. I would not suggest these size needles for worstered weight socks nor for other parts of the sock.


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## silversurfer (Nov 25, 2013)

This is one of the situations where there is no right or wrong way. We can all knit our socks the way we want.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

sockit2me said:


> mopgenorth: Amy always shows us her work and explains her process and learning. You seem to criticize her at every turn...yet we have yet to SEE your work that would give you any right to be such a critic. Why the constant harshness and scolding??


Wow!!!!! I totally agree!!! Amy does beautiful work. I always enjoy seeing what she has made. Amy I really hope you take the negative comments and just brush them off your shoulder. It is what wirks for you. There us nothing written in stone that says you have to do it exactly the way a pattern is written. Keep up the good work.oh and by the way.. Amy was just explaining what worked for her, and what was explained to het how to do it. Stop being so rude mopgenorth.


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## Teriwm (Jun 18, 2012)

I think that other knitter must be jealous, your work is beautiful!


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

purplelady said:


> I likee the way you are keeping your cool, Amy.
> and the sox ain't bad neither, ;o]]
> a fav color to meeeee..
> bet


 :thumbup:


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## betty boivin (Sep 12, 2012)

Mopgenorth..was it really necessary to throw rhat remark in?  You are entitled to your opinion but respect of others would be nice! I think that one should try to learn as many ways as possible then choose one v you like.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

mopgenorth said:


> When you wear the socks the different parts of the foot, ankle, leg/calf distort the pattern by virtue of stretch - so in the end it really doesn't make any difference - when worn the pattern will always be distorted to a certain degree. Personally, I have NEVER had a problem with distortion when by changing needle size - if I did, I would do something different - but it works for me and my knitting. I do take my time and increase very gradually so perhaps that is the difference - I'm not in a red hot hurry to git her done - but again - whatever works for the individual knitter - no one knitter knits exactly like another. The beauty of a forum like KP is the platform to share what works for us and to learn and grow.


I sincerly hope you live by your own words... "no one knittet knits exactly like another". Because you seem to get on Amy pretty harshly. Can we see some of your work? Are you jelious of Amy's accomplishnents?
I really hope you live by your own words....by saying " no one knitter knits exactly


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## LBush1144 (Jan 23, 2011)

If that is beginner work, I can't wait for the advanced! But, I will be so jealous. I haven't done sock using anything other than different stitch patterns using the same yarn -- but I have liked them very much. You sock looks like a lot of work and focus -- a great job.


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## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

bettyirene said:


> Amy, if you are a novice with fair isle knitting - I can't wait to see what you will produce in about five years time....they are fantastic...


Totally agree with you, Betty!!

:thumbup:


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## cindyclark (Jul 25, 2013)

Very Beautiful work you "beginner" you! :roll: You can make socks for me anytime!!


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## irenecov (Apr 22, 2014)

Very nicely said. Thanks


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

"you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Perhaps it's that blonde thing again.
If what you are doing works for you that is just fine, but gradually changing needles size up and/or down does NOT affect any pattern. The changes are so gradual it in inconceivable to the naked eye (when done CORRECTLY that is). A lot of the expertise shared on KP has come from a hit and miss angle, has had the bugs worked out, and is actually great advice.
Just because the adjustments you make work for you does not mean other methods will not work just as well. Every knitter has their own preferences and knows what works best for them.
As you become more experienced with your knitting and learn the different and varied ways of finding solutions to different problems you may even come to appreciate the experiences of other knitters without the need to criticize.
If your experience with changing needle size has not worked for you, perhaps you need to take a look at what went wrong in your experience instead of dismissing the method that works well for so many others as a whole - OR you could just simply say that this is the say I do it and it works great for me. You have much to offer Amy, but the ability to follow a chart does not an expert make. It would be great if you could at least show some respect for others who have a different way of doing things. Just sayin..."



What a nasty piece of work you must be to refer to Amy being blonde in that manner. You are insulting every blonde including myself. Amy is one of the nicest, kindest and helpful person here on KP and if I could knit half as good as Amy can, I would be so proud. Just sayin...


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## irenecov (Apr 22, 2014)

Amy your work is beautiful. However, what works for you is not the same for everyone. But again, your work is beautyful.


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## gheitz (Apr 14, 2011)

oh my goodness.....I was shocked to read the negative remarks on this forum!!!!
Amy, I love your work and your advice.
We have conflicts in our world, our country, our communities..tornadoes all over, please.....let this forum be a positive place to be!!!!!!!!


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## Aimee'smom (Nov 24, 2013)

I'm with Amy on preferring decreases to changing needle size. With my knitting, changing needle size is more obvious than reducing the number of stitches - sometimes even when using solid colors.


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## cathy73 (Apr 8, 2013)

I have tried changing needle size but even changing size gradually my eyes always notice the different size stitches on the finished work. Your way works far better for me too. Knitting is an art and we all have our own way of expressing that art. 
Those socks are very beautiful!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

mopgenorth said:


> you couldn't be more incorrect if you tried. Perhaps it's that blonde thing again.
> 
> If what you are doing works for you that is just fine, but gradually changing needles size up and/or down does NOT affect any pattern. The changes are so gradual it in inconceivable to the naked eye (when done CORRECTLY that is). A lot of the expertise shared on KP has come from a hit and miss angle, has had the bugs worked out, and is actually great advice.
> 
> ...


Mop - your tone seemed hostile. Certainly you should save your strong feelings for something more important than needle changing. Amy is an incredible knitter and a generous person. And enough with the dumb blonde insinuations. Tired, very tired.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

irenecov said:


> Amy your work is beautiful. However, what works for you is not the same for everyone. But again, your work is beautyful.


Thank you. What works for one does NOT work for another... Especially when knitting different techniques or patterns... That is exactly why I posted this... To let others know that changing needle sizes does not always work out well.


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## gracemd (Aug 6, 2011)

Amy, what beautiful socks. Your talent is outstanding.


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## LindaLu (Mar 9, 2011)

I have read three pages of this thread. At first I was not in agreement with Amy. I knit 2 x 2 ribbed cuff socks, top down. found that using size one needle took too long,so I use ones for the foot (a snugger fit). The cuff I do in size two. In reading Amy,s comments I can see that in using patterns such as cable, lace, etc., that changing needle size would create problems. 
Amy has been so generous in sharing her knitting experiences and patterns that I will always think about what she says.
I was appalled by the rude comment posted which was clearly a personal attack.


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## Libbeth (Nov 8, 2013)

Beautiful..no beginner there! But, where did you do your decreases? I can't see them?!!


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## mjo (Jul 21, 2012)

Gosh what a gorgeous sock.....I am so glad you shared it with us. 
I agree with you about needle size in a sock. I use 1 or 0's for my socks and use the same needle throughout. 
I have seen some beautiful sweaters made by varying the needle size though. I think a person should use what works for them. Sometimes I think replies sound harsher than intended on the computer and just hate that what should be an education read about technique turns into a he Haida she said battle.
Maybe we can see some more pictures of socks and a pattern or two for each technique I would like to try both.


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## ga447 (Apr 16, 2013)

Your knitting is outstanding and very experience.


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## ykreeves (Jul 9, 2012)

Let's get this right, Amy, you are not a beginner. Really, now, How long have you been knitting? I think your work is fantastic, not a beginner, not experience, you are an expert! Thanks for sharing.


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## Kathie (Mar 29, 2011)

Somehow Amy, that doesn't look like the work of an inexperienced knitter. I'm not sure why anyone cares what method people use if it works for them. Your work is beautiful and I would do whatever works for me. Love your socks.


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## cydneyjo (Aug 5, 2011)

Amy, "experienced" does not necessarily refer to the length of time one has been knitting. In your case, it refers to your willingness to "step out of the boat" and take on new challenges, and then mastering them. I don't deviate from patterns (it would make me too anxious) but am envious of those who do, and who by so doing, find new ways. The socks are gorgeous and look perfectly lined-up.


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## DLB (Jan 3, 2012)

Amy thank you so much for sharing the lessons you have learned while knitting, I love the joy that you approach this with. I learned to knit and pearl while sick in bed as a child. While I liked to knit I did not have any more instruction so have mostly been self taught until recently. Because of my self-criticism it was hard for me to advance to a "expert knitter". If someone had spoken to me like the criticism you receive from "fellow knitters" I would have put my needles down and never picked them up again. While I am not sure what all goes into being an expert knitter, if it includes being rude to others than I am not interested in being an expert. Please keep sharing your love of knitting and your experiences along the way. Your socks are lovely, I don't knit socks and have no desire to do so, but yours are magnificent.


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## OddBodkin (Nov 18, 2013)

I love the socks and look forward to the day I might produce such beautiful work. Whatever techniques you are using clearly produce results many of us admire. Thank you for sharing your tips.


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## Brilingra (Jul 7, 2012)

Amy - where does it say that there is a "right" or "wrong" way of doing things that work out best for you? You are experienced, and have provided us with many outstanding pictures of your efforts, as well as wise suggestions. Just pat yourself on your back for your excellent knitting and contributions, and keep your head up and move on. You are doing great!


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## clickerMLL (Aug 14, 2013)

Do what works best for YOU! There are always people who will scoff and belittle and criticize. There are quite a few ways to accomplish your goal, and it is helpful to know several of them so you can choose what works best for you and for the particular item you happen to be knitting.


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## jumbleburt (Mar 10, 2011)

DLB said:


> Amy thank you so much for sharing the lessons you have learned while knitting, I love the joy that you approach this with... I would have put my needles down and never picked them up again. While I am not sure what all goes into being an expert knitter, if it includes being rude to others than I am not interested in being an expert. Please keep sharing your love of knitting and your experiences along the way.....
> 
> 
> > :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## kayrein (Aug 24, 2011)

Your socks are beautiful. The "right" way to do anything in knitting is to do it the way the knitter wants to do it! You are obviously an advanced enough knitter to decide on your own how you want to knit things. It sounds like your "advice" was given by someone who either is insecure or is on an ego trip!! 
Just my opinion.


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

I love the socks and your advice. I've been told I'm a redhead who probably has blonde roots. So there you go. I have tried a little fair isle, but mostly something I just made up as I go. I don't live near any shops other than JoAnns and the like, so getting the plain sock yarn would require traveling or buying online. I do plan a trip to a shop down south of me in the near future and I will be getting some plain sock yarn to give this a try. Thanks for the tips. I will be trying both your idea and the needle change to see which works for me. Thanks for posting.


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## tweeter (Dec 22, 2012)

thank you Amy for the information. Your socks are very nice. Your knitting always look so bea


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## tweeter (Dec 22, 2012)

thank you Amy for the information. Your socks are very nice. Your knitting always look so beautiful


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## guitarlady (Mar 21, 2013)

I think you are an exellent knitter Amy and how nice of you to take the time to share your experiences with this group. I have made three pairs of short Village Socks because of your sharing that idea. I have been knitting forty years, and love that method more than circulars and double points. I am very disappointed to read the unkind comments that were made. Fortunately most people on this blog are helpful and supportive. Happy knitting. I am making another Panda. That has been fun too.


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## guitarlady (Mar 21, 2013)

I think you are an exellent knitter Amy and how nice of you to take the time to share your experiences with this group. I have made three pairs of short Village Socks because of your sharing that idea. I have been knitting forty years, and love that method more than circulars and double points. I am very disappointed to read the unkind comments that were made. Fortunately most people on this blog are helpful and supportive. Happy knitting. I am making another Panda. That has been fun too.


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## rosespun (May 27, 2012)

Those are lovely Amyknits. Ignore mopgenorth, she has appointed herself one of the knitting police. It was very rudely said and uncalled for.


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## JanieSue (Nov 30, 2011)

I guess I only do beginner Fair Isle also but I prefer the look of 2 or 3 colors to having a lot of colors going on, I think the pattern shows up better using only a couple colors. Once you learn how to knit Fair Isle you can knit any pattern you want by following a chart. 

I have only knit a few pairs of socks but so far I haven't found it necessary to change needle size even on the pair I made for my DH and he has a real wide foot. 

Amy & Mopgenorth both do beautiful work and are very helpful to everyone on this site. Not sure why there has to be so much bickering. It is just knitting and all the different hints are helpful even when you have been knitting for 50yrs. I am still learning and that is what keeps knitting interesting.


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## Ermdog (Apr 24, 2014)

Amy, I'm with DLB here, she took the words right out of my mouth. Some of us are timid about showing our progress because we are so fearful of the kind of harshness that some can dish out. This site has been an encouragement to me, and I'm sorry for the one bad apple. Your socks made my eyes pop, and my teeth fall out on the floor. Don't know if I'll ever have the courage to attempt fair Isle knitting, but if I do I will remember you socks and your advice.


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## Clarey (Aug 19, 2013)

Amy, I have admired your work and comments, instructions, patterns, etc. since I first joined. You not only make beautiful socks, but your sweaters, ponchos, etc. certainly would be classified as "expert knitter". I very much appreciate and look forward to all of your pictures and comments on knitting. I, for one, take heed and hopefully improve my own knitting because of you. I have done Fair Isle on sweaters, but never thought to do it on socks...too much tangling of yarn in too small an area. So, again, kudos to you for attempting and creating such exquisite work. I think, mathematically, you are correct about changing needle (stitch) size on a pattern. This would also be true on a larger project...the slanting of pattern would be noticeable. I see you are a perfectionist (as am I) and it would certainly bother you, even if no one else noticed it.


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## Susam (Apr 1, 2013)

Amy, I totally agree with you. You were not criticizing but offering sound a advice. Your work is always beautiful and expertly done. That saying I will always use your suggestions before others that only offer critisism.. Thank you!


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## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

gheitz said:


> oh my goodness.....I was shocked to read the negative remarks on this forum!!!!
> Amy, I love your work and your advice.
> We have conflicts in our world, our country, our communities..tornadoes all over, please.....let this forum be a positive place to be!!!!!!!!


I agree. Thought it was very harsh. That can be the problem with the written word, unfortunately.


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> mopgenorth: Amy always shows us her work and explains her process and learning. You seem to criticize her at every turn...yet we have yet to SEE your work that would give you any right to be such a critic. Why the constant harshness and scolding??


 :thumbup:


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

Amy those socks are amazing! I love red and white.. and I am doing my first Fair Isle now. It is not good but I hope with some blocking and constructing it into a pillow that the flaws won't show that much ... I was wondering how you changed your stitch count and still kept your pattern sequence?
Is there a part in the sock pattern that is more plain and allows you to adjust it? I am seriously going to do more Fair Isle it is becoming my new knitting 'addiction'  Your work is always so pretty.. thanks for sharing ..


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

Amy, I don't see anywhere on your pic where I can tell you increased/decreased within your stitch pattern - could you point out a few?

More importantly, I don't know who called you a beginner, they clearly are not looking at your work!!!

I think both ways are good - adding stitches or changing needle size. If you change needle size, you still have one stitch flowing into one stitch, it's just a slightly bigger stitch. I don't think it would distort the pattern. Adding stitches to the pattern - this will require more thought & math and is definitely not for the faint of heart! 

Amy, you did a great job. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knittingrox (Sep 13, 2013)

Oh my goodness, Amy, thank you kindly, again, for sharing your knowledge and experience with your projects.... this sock is stunning and beautifully worked...... may I take a moment to say how much you sharing your tips on various things is appreciated and you have moved me along in my quest to master the art of knitting. So very good of you to take your time to share with us your experiences and what has worked for you . I love that we do not have to be put in a box of only one way to do things, that is what art is all about


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## grandma- joyce (Apr 28, 2014)

I have read, enjoyed, learned, the whole gamut especially re knitting, since I have not been knitting for long. Socks are a dream of mine to make, haven't started yet, but I try to absorb and note as many "helps" as I can. When I read the notes by AmyKnits this morning, I was definitely interested..all the while realizing that there are many ways to do it. Then I stumbled across Mopgenorth's coarse reply and was really disappointed with the usage of her space here to help. I'm sorry for her! Wonder if she is happy? Thanks for the forum for us beginners!


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## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

Normally I wouldn't say anything but I was extremely annoyed by your response to Amy's posting. That blonde thing was totally uncalled for! You can disagree without being insulting or perhaps you can't but you could at least try to respond in a pleasant manner. You don't have to agree with her but you should respect her.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

It seems to me that what works is correct.

You're both having to deal with the same problem, which is that the number of color changes in a round makes a difference in your gauge. 

You're adding more stitches where your gauge is tighter to keep the same circumference. She's fixing her gauge by substituting a different size needle. There's a third solution, and that would be to learn to knit it all at the same gauge, which she's obviously not "experienced" enough to be able to do.

Both are valid solutions. I've used both those solutions in different places when knitting.

I doubt that her solution is "more experienced" than yours, just different. And if she thinks there's only one solution to a problem, she's probably far less experienced at life. When I find a solution to a problem, I usually don't go looking for more solutions, but that doesn't mean they're not out there. And telling you that a perfectly workable solution is "wrong" shows clearly that she hasn't learned to deal with human beings, and that her mind is closed to new ideas.

Or maybe it just shows a different way of looking at the universe. She's learned one thing, and then closed her mind. She'll never invent anything. And she'll never continue to learn with that right and wrong attitude.

You just keep being yourself, Amy. Keep on being creative and finding your own solutions!


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## mlsolcz (Feb 16, 2012)

Amy, your work is marvelous and I always enjoy your posts. You do your research and it shows. Never listen to the trolls because they aren't worth our time.


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## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

AmyKnits said:


> Thank you. What works for one does NOT work for another... Especially when knitting different techniques or patterns... That is exactly why I posted this... To let others know that changing needle sizes does not always work out well.


Kudos to you, Amy, for taking the higher ground here and not commenting in any negative way to the "not pleasant" posting. There is no need for that type of post on this site. You were only trying to suggest another way of doing things. Please don't stop your posts. They are both informative and interesting.


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## Mercygirl76 (Dec 30, 2012)

RookieRetiree said:


> Mopgenorth ---- I'm with Amy on this one....whatever works and generates as wonderful of projects as hers always are is all right by me. Let's not make this a forum of rating (or berating) the work of others. If we were making things to be sent into a Guild of Experts for grades or a certification, then maybe some other rules may need to be followed, but on here I applaud and celebrate that there can be many different ways to achieve creativity. I definitely am a novice at doing stranded work and will keep these tips handy to see which way works best for me---it's nice to know that there are options.


Rookie, I've got to agree with you. I haven't done any stranded colorwork yet (taking a KAL on May 1 - YAY), but if it works for someone and makes sense to them, that's what matters. I just think that berating or denigrating someone's work or comments is unnecessary. Everyone has tips and ideas that work for them and when they share them, it may help someone else. The usage of math to determine shaping just seems to make sense to me, especially if you are working in a colorwork pattern. It would seem that keeping your stitches all the same size would be very important. If you can accomplish that with going up and down in needle size, then great, that's the method for you.


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## prismaticr (Nov 17, 2011)

Amy - I cant believe reading this, that you still refer to yourself as 'a beginner' Length of time knitting does not an expert make. For that matter those knitting f-o-r-e-v-e-r... still have new tricks to learn!

I teach what I learn and learn new stuff all the time. I surpassed my 'guru' on day 60 something, just because she gave me all the tools to do that! IE where to go to learn new and easier ways to do things... KP is one of those places!

Just adding my support that you are seriously NOT a beginner anything! KNIT ON!


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## Jepjohn (Nov 27, 2011)

Amy, you of all people should know by now that knitting is a very personalized thing. If it works for you great! that doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Do whatever works for you, but that doesn't mean it is the ONLY right way.


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## missysmommy (Jun 30, 2012)

Wow! If you are a "beginner" I don't even know how far down to cast myself. You're work is beautiful, and thank you for reminding us that the so-called experienced/experts don't always know best.
I love your posts, thank you so much for the inspiration.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Ronie said:


> Amy those socks are amazing! I love red and white.. and I am doing my first Fair Isle now. It is not good but I hope with some blocking and constructing it into a pillow that the flaws won't show that much ... I was wondering how you changed your stitch count and still kept your pattern sequence?
> Is there a part in the sock pattern that is more plain and allows you to adjust it? I am seriously going to do more Fair Isle it is becoming my new knitting 'addiction'  Your work is always so pretty.. thanks for sharing ..


Thank you for the compliments. I did the increases and decreases equally on either side of the middle "spine" on these socks. If you look closely, the pattern changes several times up and down the length of the sock.

It's not really difficult at all to do this... Simply knit two stitches together and eliminate one stitch in the pattern on either side. To increase, just add a stitch to each side as if you were knitting another repeat.

Thank you all for your kind words and SUPPORT. There are more ways than one to do most things in knitting... I love to share my experiences, trials and errors and never mind showing my work (whether it is my best or not) if it helps someone learn!


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## Sumacsew (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm disappointed by the tone of this thread. Amy, thanks for your perspective. People who change needles, thanks for your perspective. Blonde stereotypes have no place here, and really, who demonstrates that better than DR. Amyknits? I don't think there is anyplace in knitting for "always" or "never" or "You're wrong". What works for one, may work for another. Might be worth trying.
And what's wrong with beginner knitters? Of course, they don't tackle the tricky stuff, but it doesn't matter how long you have been knitting, just what your frustration threshold is.


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## Moe C (Jul 31, 2011)

Sigh (after six pages). Amy is not an inexperienced beginner and wasn't implying she was. She put those descriptions, from a self-described expert, in quotation marks.

It's all well and good to say do whatever works for you, but there are objective ways to judge the results, and some results are better than others. Amy tried that pattern by changing needles and it didn't work. I'd like to see the same sock done by someone else who changed needle size. My money's on Amy's method looking better.

I just finished a pair of toe-up self-striping socks that began with a foot of 64sts and ended with a fat upper calf of 84sts. I increased the number of stitches, not the size of the stitches. If I had gained the equivalent of 20sts by using larger needles, I'd have a sloppy mess.


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## IndigoSpinner (Jul 9, 2011)

I think the beginner viewpoint shows a certain mindset, and it's good in some ways.

I knitted for 32 years and never could do color work at all. I tried many times and wound up with a total mess. Then, one day, I read an article by Meg Swanson explaining how to keep the gauge constant on colorwork, it all clicked, and I started doing it.

At that point, despite knitting for 32 years, for colorwork, I was a beginner.

No matter how much you know, there is _always something new to learn._ Maybe it's something someone else teaches you, maybe it's something that you invent (or unvent) for yourself.

But the minute you decide that you know it all, at that moment, you stop learning. How could you possibly learn something when you already know everything?

_And that's the death of learning and creativity._

If I live to over 100, I will _never_ learn or invent everything there is to do or learn in knitting, nevermind in everything else! Someone else always has something new to me to teach me. I intend to continue to learn (and pass on what I learn) until the day I die.

And I do mean that _everyone_ has something to teach me. Around the time my daughter was three years old, she started having her own opinions and expressing them. We'd debate on various subjects, and frequently she was right. Even at the age of 3, she taught me a lot, just by having an open mind.


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## ramram0003 (Nov 7, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## soc (Apr 21, 2011)

I'm afraid that other than the last two rows before the heel I don't see the changes. 

I appreciate that this is a posting of a particular technique for a particular sock, but if there is going to be categorical statements that a different technique looks worse or causes odd looking consequences, then the other technique shown with the same yarns and the needles being discussed would be most helpful.
I don't understand how changing a needle size up or down with the small needles would change the pattern that much.
Can't visualize it, can't even follow the discussion.


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

AmyKnits said:


> Thank you for the compliments. I did the increases and decreases equally on either side of the middle "spine" on these socks. If you look closely, the pattern changes several times up and down the length of the sock.
> 
> It's not really difficult at all to do this... Simply knit two stitches together and eliminate one stitch in the pattern on either side. To increase, just add a stitch to each side as if you were knitting another repeat.


Thanks for pointing that out, Amy; I can see it now. At first I thought you meant you were adding stitches throughout a row and I just couldn't image how that didn't mess with the charted pattern!

Yes, I agree this is a good method. I've seen many sock patterns, especially knee highs, that have increased stitches along the center back seam.


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## ramram0003 (Nov 7, 2011)

:thumbup:


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## ramram0003 (Nov 7, 2011)

I think there is a problem here with people being VERY critical and judgemental. We are all knitters/crocheters and here for the tips and patterns and fellowship via/computer. I thank God that we are all different because our world (that is going down in a spiral whorlwind) would be very boring. If we all thought, acted, spoke, dressed,etc. (I am sure you got the idea) we wouldn't have anything to ponder on. Or step outside of the box, so to speak. 
If it was something that was going to hurt someone then I could see speaking out. But, REALLY!!!!? 
I don't like to see dissention in the ranks. 
Oh, and I too am a blonde and I too have several moments and I am PROUD of everyone of them. BECAUSE I made someone laugh. Best medicine and it is free!!!!
I just wish that these adults (???????) would just read this and if you don't like it just pass it up and go to the next thing. 
This is getting way out of hand. I wonder if Mop would have said it to Amy face to face? BE honest with yourself. 
WWJD?


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## knitnshirl (Jan 6, 2013)

I've used both methods for making the calf size larger on socks. When I used gradual increasing needle sizes the stitches looked and felt sloppy towards the top (toe up socks), although they did fit the wearer. When worn, the lacy pattern stretched out across the calf and looked distorted. 

When I used the increased stitches method the pattern held its integrity much better. And it looked nicer when worn. 

I believe that the end product should be something the knitter is proud of and the recipient is happy to wear. If it means being innovative or experimental with how you get that result, so much the better. 

Knitting is a creative art. Damn the rules!


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## Diane Schillo (Aug 26, 2012)

You do beautiful work..keep doing it your way..it works


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## yanagi (Jul 7, 2013)

Who ever said that was very rude. Your work is beautiful and, if changing the stitch count works for you, go for it.


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## Janana (Jan 30, 2013)

Amyknits, I think your work is fantastic. While I don't do fair isle or socks I can see both ways of increasing and decreasing. But to add or subtract stitches and still create these patterns is quite genius.


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## blawler (Feb 20, 2012)

Your Fair Isle work is beautiful, Amy. I, too, appreciate your sharing your experiences with all of us. It helps a lot. Please keep it up. These knee socks are spectacular. I hope you're not affected by the negativity of some of the comments. I hear you sharing your experience, not saying that your way is THE way. Aloha... Bev


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## Milocat (Sep 5, 2012)

Hi Amy, I think your socks are stunning, not just the current pair, but all your socks. What thickness yarn do you use, I have a feeling that it is a slightly heavier weight than I use. This of course is because in Australia generally it does not get really cold.
Regarding changing needles, I do agree with you about this, I knit cuff down, so it is important to pay attention to the cast on method and learn one of the super stretch methods. I find that I use a pretty standard 64 sts for women, and 72 for men. I use 2.5 needles, but have used 2.75 sometimes. That .25 makes a big difference in the size of the sock, because when you multiply .25 times 4 you get one whole cm. and that is quite a lot in a sock. So I recommend that you decide which needle to use and stick with it for the whole sock. This also varies with your individual knitting style. I am fairly tight knitter, so this produces a nice even fabric, but this does not suit everyone. It is important to know your gauge and use the correct needle.
Colour work or fair isle is generally a bit tighter because of the volume(thickness of the yarn) so I also would use larger needles, and perhaps increase stitches. I don't do that for lace, because I want the lace to show when the sock is worn. 
This of course is just MY solution to these problems, others have found their own, and I am always interested to read and try different things. That of course is the whole benefit of KP, sharing ideas. So Amy keep evolving And sharing your journey, vive la difference.


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## kimmyz (May 9, 2011)

Doesn't look like a beginner to me, Amy! You're a pro. Lovely work.


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## Quincy's Mom (Sep 3, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> mopgenorth: Amy always shows us her work and explains her process and learning. You seem to criticize her at every turn...yet we have yet to SEE your work that would give you any right to be such a critic. Why the constant harshness and scolding??


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Kitchenergal (Nov 13, 2013)

Let's all follow Amy's example and not comment!! It's the classy thing to do. Just sayin'


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## MsKathy (May 25, 2013)

Amy, I love your sweet spirit and the sharing that you do in the knitting. As a beginner to sock knitting, and a greatgrandmother, I would have probably given up without your Village Sock pattern, an Eric's pattern. Such an inspiration both of you have been to me. I loooove that "giggle, giggle",,,,,,and hey......you're not too bad looking. In fact, when you look like you do, Amy, and are smart too, somebody's GOT to get a little "testy". You go, girl!!


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## hajra (Sep 5, 2011)

sockit2me said:


> mopgenorth: Amy always shows us her work and explains her process and learning. You seem to criticize her at every turn...yet we have yet to SEE your work that would give you any right to be such a critic. Why the constant harshness and scolding??


Ditto!
Amy, once again you have done a great job, love the socks.


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## AmyKnits (Aug 20, 2011)

Milocat said:


> Hi Amy, I think your socks are stunning, not just the current pair, but all your socks. What thickness yarn do you use, I have a feeling that it is a slightly heavier weight than I use. This of course is because in Australia generally it does not get really cold.
> Regarding changing needles, I do agree with you about this, I knit cuff down, so it is important to pay attention to the cast on method and learn one of the super stretch methods. I find that I use a pretty standard 64 sts for women, and 72 for men. I use 2.5 needles, but have used 2.75 sometimes. That .25 makes a big difference in the size of the sock, because when you multiply .25 times 4 you get one whole cm. and that is quite a lot in a sock. So I recommend that you decide which needle to use and stick with it for the whole sock. This also varies with your individual knitting style. I am fairly tight knitter, so this produces a nice even fabric, but this does not suit everyone. It is important to know your gauge and use the correct needle.
> Colour work or fair isle is generally a bit tighter because of the volume(thickness of the yarn) so I also would use larger needles, and perhaps increase stitches. I don't do that for lace, because I want the lace to show when the sock is worn.
> This of course is just MY solution to these problems, others have found their own, and I am always interested to read and try different things. That of course is the whole benefit of KP, sharing ideas. So Amy keep evolving And sharing your journey, vive la difference.


So nice to hear from you! As one of my original sock knitting teachers (Zoe, AuntKnitty, you and several others all participated on the thread in which I learned to knit my first sock... Last summer) I really appreciate your comments.

Thank you, again for helping me learn to knit socks! KP friends are wonderful!


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Hi Amy: I do have a question for you regarding decreases or increases. When following a chart lets say of your Pretty pink socks you shared with us . The Fair isle chart is 32 stitches to be doubled. Making it a total of a 64 stitches per line.

How do you adjust for this to make your fair isle flower come together correctly ? Can you give a formula for this?
Now that's when or if you decrease or increase your sock at this point.

Thanks 
Cheryl J.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Amy, I appreciate your thought process and willingness to explain your experience with us here at KP. Your words are thought out and make so much sense to me.
You then show us all what you are knitting and explain your theories. For All for of this I thank you.
For anyone who differs with your generous sharing I say this: 
Everyone has a method that works for them. Great! But, rather than condem those whose method is different I say to them, show us your work and your theory for this.
But none of us need your ridicule. jmo


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## Jennpwilliams (Dec 3, 2012)

Mopgenorth - you are being unnecessarily critical. Amy shares a lot of great information willingly and makes us all smarter as a result. Her work is beautiful as well! There is a way to nicely point out a difference of opinion, but you don't have that ability.


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## barbhb (May 18, 2013)

Jennpwilliams said:


> Mopgenorth - you are being unnecessarily critical. Amy shares a lot of great information willingly and makes us all smarter as a result. Her work is beautiful as well! There is a way to nicely point out a difference of opinion, but you don't have that ability.


What's wrong, folks? Have things been too peaceful lately on the K-P forum?


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## irenecov (Apr 22, 2014)

Let's leave it be. Amy is awsome. And I do not think Mopgenorth was trying to be mean, she was also just sharing an opinion and it came out a little wrong. I am new here and have hated reading this mess all day.


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## Knittin' in Georgia (Jun 27, 2013)

barbhb said:


> What's wrong, folks? Have things been too peaceful lately on the K-P forum?


It surely makes one hesitate to post anything for fear of being ridiculed, especially those of us who don't have the confidence and/or expertise of some. There are respectful ways to disagree, which was not done in this case.


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## Mayberry Gal (Apr 6, 2011)

Amy, I always love to see your work! You knit beautifully and I appreciate the time you take sharing your knowledge with others. And the fact that you've only been knitting for a few years blows my mind! Please continue sharing your knitting with us!


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## knitter2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Amy,
As usual your work is beautiful. I have learned so much from you and I'm sure others feel the same way. Thanks for your helpful hint.

Jane


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

cydneyjo said:


> Amy, "experienced" does not necessarily refer to the length of time one has been knitting. In your case, it refers to your willingness to "step out of the boat" and take on new challenges, and then mastering them. I don't deviate from patterns (it would make me too anxious) but am envious of those who do, and who by so doing, find new ways. The socks are gorgeous and look perfectly lined-up.


Agreed. Amy, your originality and creativity are inspiring - thank you - PLEASE continue your helpful and thoughtful posts, as well as your kind and tolerant responses.


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## kiwirose (Aug 19, 2011)

Amy, thank you for sharing hints and conclusions you have made from the knitting you have done. You may not have been knitting very long but you are a talented and expert knitter, in my opinion. I, for one, always read what you have written about your discoveries along the way and have picked up some helpful hints from you. Whether one has been knitting a long time, or a short time, is not always relevant because there is always something new one can learn, no matter how much one thinks one knows.

I believe your comments in this case make very good sense. I have several knitting patterns for fair isle socks and stockings, most of them based on vintage patterns which have been knitted by many generations of knitters. In all cases the socks/stockings are shaped by decreasing and increasing stitches rather than changing needle sizes. I am not saying that one should always stick slavishly to a pattern, but I do think that these tried and true designs are probably the best way of achieving the desired outcome.

Anyway, Amy, I hope you will continue to share photos of your beautiful knitting and helpful hints that you have discovered work well for you. The results you are getting speak for themselves and surely what you have to say is helpful to many people.

The condescending tone of your "experienced" knitter made me wince.....


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## Gabriell (Sep 13, 2011)

Amy, I always love seeing your work and find it outstanding.To read that you have been knitting a relatively short time amazes. I've knitted socks for many years but I've never tried to do anything like the socks you've just posted. Reading the explanations you give and the encouragement you give has made me think I may branch out and try the fair isle. I appreciate your helpful attitude. This summer I intend to knit your poncho pattern.Continue to contribute your advice.


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## GroodleMom (Feb 27, 2011)

silversurfer said:


> This is one of the situations where there is no right or wrong way. We can all knit our socks the way we want.


Thank you Silver surfer!
Amy's socks are lovely but I am not sure why it was so important to reopen the subject of how we increase the leg size on socks. Or for that matter to keep putting down acrylic yarn or to continually dispute when a member states that they find wool itchy, etc.
I guess we all like win arguments but one of the lovely things about this forum is respecting each others experiences and opinions.
For instance, I hate dpns, very small circular needles, straight needles and cuff down, and love Magic Loop, two at time, toe up for socks but I am in awe of those who have mastered dpns (I am just too uncoordinated with my arthitic fingers)
I dont believe there is only one correct way to knit socks or anything else for that matter and I have learned so much from others' techniques.


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## RNLinda (Dec 14, 2012)

Amy, as usual, a beautiful finished product. You put in such work to each project, and it shows in the results. I would take your word about any knitting process and feel confident that it has been thoroughly researched. I don't understand why some people always have to criticize the work of others, especially such a great piece of workmanship, I am totally envious. Maybe some people are so jealous they can't stand to see anyone else succeed, and have others admire it. Again, gorgeous work. I believe that we can all learn from each other.


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## horsenut1948 (Mar 3, 2013)

Mopgenorth - it is very unprofessional & downright rude to make comments such as "the blonde thing" I am blonde as well & take exception to such comments. Every one of us has ways of doing things that work for us & to berate someone such as you have done it unacceptable!
Amy - you do great work - don't let someone put you down!!


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