# I didn't really like you before and I really don't like you now.



## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

I was down in town I and I happen to pass by a Lys that I don't particularly care for. She had a sweater in the window that I really liked. So against better judgement, I went in. She informed me that it was not for sale, you had to take a class at an exorbitant price to get the pattern. I have been knitting for 35+ years, I am not sitting through a class I can probably teach just to get a pattern and on top of that I probably won't like the yarn you chose. I like to choose my own. If you are not selling the pattern why is it in the window? Learned my lesson, I will never darken her doorstep again.


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## Ellemck (Mar 7, 2011)

Good for you!


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I have found classes are extremely expensive. Hard to pay those prices when I can find out what I need to know on Paradise and the internet. I suppose she is doing everything she can to make money to keep her shop open.


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

In defense of the LYS the owner should have displayed a small sign along side the sweater indicating the pattern was sold with a class. 
I'm still in the learning phase of knitting & have taken a few classes at my LYS & I don't think the prices are out of line at all. I need the hands on help with certain things & my LYS delivers.
Sorry to hear you don't have a positive experience with yours.


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## barcar (Jun 16, 2011)

Do you have a picture of the sweater?


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## crispie (Dec 17, 2011)

I agree; she should have had a sign giving you the info on that sweater, purchase of pattern, etc. Unfortunately she just lost a potential customer!


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## cindye6556 (Apr 6, 2011)

jinx said:


> I have found classes are extremely expensive. Hard to pay those prices when I can find out what I need to know on Paradise and the internet. I suppose she is doing everything she can to make money to keep her shop open.


I agree. One of the LYS wanted $125 for 4 1hour sock knitting classes, plus all supplies had to be purchased from them...yarn, needles and pattern. So when all was said and done you were looking at $175. To rich for my blood.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

klrober said:


> In defense of the LYS the owner should have displayed a small sign along side the sweater indicating the pattern was sold with a class.
> I'm still in the learning phase of knitting & have taken a few classes at my LYS & I don't think the prices are out of line at all. I need the hands on help with certain things & my LYS delivers.
> Sorry to hear you don't have a positive experience with yours.


I took plenty classes when I was learning and I would not be at the level I am at had it not been for the help of several wonderful Lys owners who very patiently showed me the ropes. I just feel this woman's main concern is making money and she doesn't consider the customer.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

barcar said:


> Do you have a picture of the sweater?


No, I could not get one.


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> I was down in town I and I happen to pass by a Lys that I don't particularly care for. She had a sweater in the window that I really liked. So against better judgement, I went in. She informed me that it was not for sale, you had to take a class at an exorbitant price to get the pattern. I have been knitting for 35+ years, I am not sitting through a class I can probably teach just to get a pattern and on top of that I probably won't like the yarn you chose. I like to choose my own. If you are not selling the pattern why is it in the window? Learned my lesson, I will never darken her doorstep again.


At least she spoke to you. I know a yarn store who doesn't give you the time of day.


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## misslucille40 (Aug 9, 2013)

cindye6556 said:


> I agree. One of the LYS wanted $125 for 4 1hour sock knitting classes, plus all supplies had to be purchased from them...yarn, needles and pattern. So when all was said and done you were looking at $175. To rich for my blood.


Yeah, hubby has a problem with socks that cost me $18/ pair to make. He's probably divorce me over a pair that cost $175 !


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

I don't blame you!

And what makes it worse is the class instructors don't get paid that much. It depends on how many take the class. The yarn store is the one that really comes out ahead.


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## GrumpyGramma (Oct 20, 2014)

Yes, get a picture of it if you can. It might not be that hard to reverse engineer. Then you could go back to the shop and make sure she sees you wearing your own creation.

There is no LYS for me. The one in my town closed out years ago. I might consider a class if it were an option.


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## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. I was a single mom with two kids in high school. Not a lot of money left for me. Now that I'm retired, I can better afford some things, and I'm pretty much stuck, locally, with Jo Ann, Michael's and the occasional find at Walmart. There's a Hobby Lobby here, but I don't do business with them. There's a yarn store not too far from here, in Aiken, SC, but the reviews I've seen of it make it sound like yours, Laura. More than one said the staff were rude. I'm not driving across the river for that.

I appreciate that yarn stores are at best a niche market and at worst a dying breed, and it's hard to have financial success. However, every business textbook you'll see will tell you to be nice to your customers. Courtesy is dirt cheap, and will help you to keep interest up among your clientele. There's no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to work with the public.


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## teenie25 (Jun 24, 2016)

Can you not get a sneaky photo, pretending to send text or something. Or over shoulder as if you are taking photo across the road. You could then do an image search in google and see if you can find a pattern. Just a thought.


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## rujam (Aug 19, 2011)

Good idea. I wanted some variegated orange yarn years ago which was in the shop window, the assistant refused to get it as it was part of their display, I asked for the manager and lo and behold I got it. I remember I made my daughter a poncho and a pixie hood with it.


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## Myrle (Mar 15, 2012)

Have you tried Ravelry for the pattern.


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## susieq1948 (Jun 15, 2011)

It really is a wonder that some businesses remain open with attitudes like that. The sweater should have had a label/sign on with all the relevant information.


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## gloxsk8 (Aug 12, 2011)

We had a yarn store here that would only sell her patterns if you bought her yarn. She only carried expensive and overpriced yarn... The store is gone.


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## Maplelkknitter (Dec 19, 2013)

Bravo!


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## Byrney (Nov 9, 2015)

I'm sure that if something is on public display, such as a shop window, you are perfectly within your rights to take a photograph. I'd do that, post the picture here and people will look for a similar pattern for you, or give you ideas of how to make it without a pattern.


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## Marylou12 (Dec 11, 2011)

If it's in her window, you should be able to easily get a picture from the outside


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## gmomgil (Feb 11, 2015)

Many years ago I used to visit a local shop and loved it. The owner was the nicest person and very helpful. Even tho at the time I really couldn't afford it I would on occasion purchase yarn from her. Why people have to be so rude I'll never know. You can't be having a bad day all the time.


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## mombr4 (Apr 21, 2011)

That's to bad you have to take a class to get the pattern.

We don't have many LYS's any longer, the last one closed and surprised they lasted as long as they did.
I went in for buttons at one time, totally ignored. Saw a baby jacket on display and wanted to make it for a friend's daughter. They told me I had to by the yarn to get the pattern. I did since it only took 2 balls of a super chunky yarn. The pattern was on a piece of paper with their store letter head. Found out about a year later the pattern wasn't theirs but was a Plymouth yarn pattern. Came across it while on their site looking for something for a friend.
So I had to buy yarn from them to get a pattern that wasn't even their pattern, did contact Plymouth yarn.

I would go when the store is closed and take a picture if that is possible, don't know how close the store is to you but if they are closed they wouldn't even know.


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## judyr (Feb 20, 2011)

That is one reason I do not go to the local LYS store. She sends out a newsletter and tells the prices, times,etc. Also if you take the class you have to buy her products. So I never go there. I like to pick out my own yarn and equipment. Thank you KPers for your opinion. I have been quiet on this subject for a long time thinking that I was a yarn snob, but I am in good company and that is all that matters here.


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## pzoe (Mar 17, 2011)

How do these kind of shops stay in business??


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## momwhofan (Nov 29, 2015)

You can grab a photo of the sweater after-hours and post it here for KPers and their wonderful detective work. The owner will not know and she can't do anything about it, anyway. There is no law against taking a photo of a store window display!

However, in defense of LYS and classes, they do have to make a profit in order to survive, which is why so many have gone under. I have taken classes in the past and learned lots of tidbits from both the teacher and students. Usually, if you don't like the yarn the teacher suggests for the project, the store will allow a substitution, as long as you purchase the yarn from said store.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Joy Marshall said:


> At least she spoke to you. I know a yarn store who doesn't give you the time of day.


I have a LYS that gives me a lift home with all my grocery shopping.


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## kubbo (Aug 25, 2013)

I worked at a LYS for several years and we just closed our doors for good. 
We offered classes for 80.00 dollars for 4 two hour classes plus we had free couch time three days a week to help with problems. 
We also offered private lessons for 30.00 dollars for an hour and a half. The boss was always giving away free patterns when we got them free, we just asked for a purchase of any kind to help pay for the printing. The main reason we closed was because people would come in, look at the yarn take down the name and color # and then order on line.
We were always polite and willing to help but we still had people say we were rude. That was because we usually only had one person working at a time (to keep costs down) and some very important people would not want wait their turn or did not like our return policy. I really will miss the shop we had many lovely customers and I will miss them too.


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## susanmjackson (Feb 7, 2011)

run4fittness said:


> I don't blame you!
> 
> And what makes it worse is the class instructors don't get paid that much. It depends on how many take the class. The yarn store is the one that really comes out ahead.


I think that depends are the shop owner. I used to teach at a lys and was paid very well for my classes. Yes, I got paid per student, but 90% of the class fee came to me. Students did have to purchase their supplies from the shop, which is how they profited from classes.


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## carlacrn (Jan 20, 2015)

cindye6556 said:


> I agree. One of the LYS wanted $125 for 4 1hour sock knitting classes, plus all supplies had to be purchased from them...yarn, needles and pattern. So when all was said and done you were looking at $175. To rich for my blood.


That's a very expensive pair of socks!


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## Diane45458 (Jun 22, 2016)

If it's on display in a storefront window, then it's public, and you may snap photos at will.


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## 86571 (Feb 16, 2013)

CBB said:


> I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. I was a single mom with two kids in high school. Not a lot of money left for me. Now that I'm retired, I can better afford some things, and I'm pretty much stuck, locally, with Jo Ann, Michael's and the occasional find at Walmart. There's a Hobby Lobby here, but I don't do business with them. There's a yarn store not too far from here, in Aiken, SC, but the reviews I've seen of it make it sound like yours, Laura. More than one said the staff were rude. I'm not driving across the river for that.
> 
> I appreciate that yarn stores are at best a niche market and at worst a dying breed, and it's hard to have financial success. However, every business textbook you'll see will tell you to be nice to your customers. Courtesy is dirt cheap, and will help you to keep interest up among your clientele. There's no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to work with the public.


CBB, check out EatSleepKnit.com. They are located in Smyrna but sell online also. I know ordering isn't as good as seeing and touching the yarn, but I have had great luck with them and they have a great selection.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

teenie25 said:


> Can you not get a sneaky photo, pretending to send text or something. Or over shoulder as if you are taking photo across the road. You could then do an image search in google and see if you can find a pattern. Just a thought.


That's a great idea getting a photo of it maybe from outside the store. Might be one from Raverly. I know my LYS uses alot of their patterns in her store. But she will tell you if it is.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

Her loss not yours.


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## cbjllinda (Mar 6, 2016)

this is common in other fields as well its a way for the merchant to increase their classes. I see nothing wrong with it. but I agree with one of the other members that said she could have put a sign in the window which would have saved you the time of walking in and out of her shop.


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## salmonmac (Apr 18, 2012)

Why is it that some yarn store owners and staff are so stand-offish and plain rude? I don't experience it in other stores. What's so different about the LYS? All the ones near me are quite friendly and customer oriented but I've certainly been in an infamous one in DC (now closed) that was intent on driving away knitters.


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## dmbt (Jan 15, 2013)

CBB said:


> I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. I was a single mom with two kids in high school. Not a lot of money left for me. Now that I'm retired, I can better afford some things, and I'm pretty much stuck, locally, with Jo Ann, Michael's and the occasional find at Walmart. There's a Hobby Lobby here, but I don't do business with them. There's a yarn store not too far from here, in Aiken, SC, but the reviews I've seen of it make it sound like yours, Laura. More than one said the staff were rude. I'm not driving across the river for that.
> 
> I appreciate that yarn stores are at best a niche market and at worst a dying breed, and it's hard to have financial success. However, every business textbook you'll see will tell you to be nice to your customers. Courtesy is dirt cheap, and will help you to keep interest up among your clientele. There's no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to work with the public.


I have been using nothing but Baby Bee Sweet Delight (DK) yarn (comes in many, many colors not just baby colors) from Hobby Lobby since they moved into town. I love that yarn because I was spending big bucks for decent yarn and giving everything away. We also have a Joann's, a Michaels and a Walmart here, but since trying this yarn, its all I use, unless I make myself a sweater then I drive 22 miles for the LYS. 
The thing I respect Hobby Lobby for, is that they close on Sunday. I was told that's because its owned by a devout Christian. I'm not sure if this is true, but they are very good to the help.


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## Irene1 (Oct 23, 2013)

Yes, there are shops that charge exorbitant prices. I do want to come to the defense of some of our local small businesses, though. There are some people who think that they should get free or very low cost classes and not pay more than the actual cost of an item. A business owner needs to pay rent, utilities, state and local taxes, and all of those other lovely taxes municipalities charge for business licenses. That is all before paying for stock, which is more cost until it is sold. Even the cash register and charge machine cost the owner money. It takes a lot of sales just to stay even with that, before the first penny of profit is made! My husband is a small business owner, and it's tough. Also, small businesses do not get the incentives or tax breaks that the big chains like Walmart get.

Sorry to vent at some people here, but asking for personal service and wonderful wool yarn at the same price as acrylic from a "big box" store isn't going to happen. 

My LYS, before it moved to another town, gave great service and sold yarn for a very fair price. I felt very bad every time a customer came in, looked at a lovely hand dyed skein of sock yarn, and said, "I wouldn't pay more than $3.79 for that" or "I saw this for 50 cents a skein less on the Internet." That is why our LYS's are closing.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

A few years ago I went with my daughter, who also knits, to a LYS in the Cincinnati area. It was a small shop, and when we went in, there were 5 women sitting at a round table, knitting. No one spoke to us. They just exchanged little glances with each other. We stayed a few minutes, but didn't buy anything. 

It was like these ladies had their own private little knitting club, and nobody else could join it. My daughter and I exchanged our own little glances and walked out. It was a mystery to us how they stayed in business. What is the point of having a shop if they treat you like that?


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## taborhills (Sep 8, 2012)

If you have no LYS, go online for WEBS yarns, loveknitting, Deramore's, jimmybeans. Also Crazy for Ewe, Churchmouse Yarns, KnitWild. Frequent sales are a huge help. 
You will see more options of quality yarns than you can use!

For classes, you do know about Craftsy, right?


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## cathysmith97 (Jul 3, 2013)

When I first started taking classes at my LYS, I wanted to buy my own yarn elsewhere for the class, but was told, "No, you have to buy the yarn here, for the class." This irked me. However, I went along with it. I started to enjoy the classes and really profit from the expertise of the LYS Owner. Yes, I could do these projects on my own, but it is more fun taking the class, and being with other knitters. I don't resent the prices now. The LYS owner has to make a living. At least two Knitting Stores near me have gone out of business.


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## ilmacheryl (Feb 3, 2013)

teenie25 said:


> Can you not get a sneaky photo, pretending to send text or something. Or over shoulder as if you are taking photo across the road. You could then do an image search in google and see if you can find a pattern. Just a thought.


I would just stand on the sidewalk & take a picture. She can't tell you what to do on the public sidewalk.


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## lakewaydell (Sep 30, 2011)

A new ys opened close to me and I was thrilled. I went in to check it out and the owner explained she did most of her business on line. I picked up a skein in a lovely color to touch and feel. She took it out of my hand and put it back in its spot on the shelf and told me I could tell her how many I wanted and she would get them out of the back. I asked if I could feel it first and she stared like I was a misbehaving child. I saw she carried brands that other shops further away don't. But frankly I would never order from her on live either. I will drive much farther or order elsewhere on line. Some people just shouldn't have a lys.


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## brendakbb (Jan 27, 2011)

I used to shop at a LYS here, where I live. The owner charges for "help" after you've spent an exhorbitant amount of money for yarn. She doesn't like anyone to whisper in her shop, unless she knows what the conversation is about. She doesn't like you to help anyone. She is a very greedy person.


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## jemima (Mar 26, 2011)

How sad this shop is . I belong to a local knitting group and any body new who can`t knit and wants to learn we always are willing to teach them. There is never any question of charge to learn.


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## jasknits (Mar 3, 2015)

One LYS near me charges for the class but you don't have to buy yarn and supplies from them. For the sock class you can use the needles required but do not have to buy them at the end of class. Most of the classes call for a specific weight of yarn and appropriate needles but you bring your own or you can purchase them at the shop before class. Another LYS gives a10% discount if you buy the yarn from them for the class. It seems to mostly depend on the owner's attitude and desire to keep repeat customers.


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## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

Good for you for walking away. Not only did she lose you as a potential customer but everyone else that might have wanted to buy pattern and the yarn.


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## margaretinoregon (Mar 31, 2013)

We once had a new yarn shop open in our town. Being a knitter, and curious, I went in and browsed. After being ignored for some time (there was no on else in the shop at the time) I asked the manager about a lovely sweater on display. I wanted to buy the pattern, I was told it was ONLY on sale if I purchased the material from her! What gall! I left the store, never to return. Incidently, the shop was gone a couple of months later. Wonder why?


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## cindyclark (Jul 25, 2013)

One thing to think about though. Most of us wish the LYS's were still in business and available to us. We miss the attention, teaching, etc. that we do not get at the bigger "craft" stores. While those prices are high, these shops need to stay in business. Seems like they could make some changes in their policies, and we could try to be more understanding of how difficult it is to stock a small shop, wait on customers, teach people who stop in for help, etc. and keep the shop open for business.


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## sharmend (Feb 14, 2012)

I am surprised she has lasted in business with that attitude! I have seen different yarn stores that have attitudes like that not last very long in business.


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## cindye6556 (Apr 6, 2011)

There are several shops here in the Springs, but the one that wanted ~$175 for the sock class will never have me darken it's door again. The employees are rude, they offer no assistance, and are more concerned with the latest gossip than they are with helping potential customers. The last time I was there (after a 40 mile drive) I was asked if I had an appointment!?! Who knew you needed such just to purchase yarn!


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## Bubba24 (Jan 2, 2012)

I was thinking about taking a sock knitting class (I already knit socks) just so I could meet other knitters. But with the cost of the class and purchase the yarn from LYS it was just too much money.


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## brendakbb (Jan 27, 2011)

I went in my LYS Christmas Eve, to wish her Merry Christmas, and she told me to get the hell out of her shop and never come back! This was because I helped some one who was having a problem with the socks she was making, and I had been teaching the sock class! I haven't been back, and I don't miss it at all!


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## Chriis (May 26, 2016)

I'm guessing they do have a Christian owner. When I heard the same music in Hobby Lobby that I hear in church I thought it was confirmed!????


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## Krykit (Dec 10, 2014)

LAURA C said:


> I was down in town I and I happen to pass by a Lys that I don't particularly care for. She had a sweater in the window that I really liked. So against better judgement, I went in. She informed me that it was not for sale, you had to take a class at an exorbitant price to get the pattern. I have been knitting for 35+ years, I am not sitting through a class I can probably teach just to get a pattern and on top of that I probably won't like the yarn you chose. I like to choose my own. If you are not selling the pattern why is it in the window? Learned my lesson, I will never darken her doorstep again.


I used to own a small yarn shop (closed it 4 years ago) and would hold classes. If a class was for a specific item, such as the sweater in this LYS window, I would place a sign next to the item (my display was in the store itself, not in the window) that advertised the class and a note that said the "pattern only" would be available for purchase after whatever the date of the class was. I did this so experienced knitters such as yourself would not be denied the pattern just because they did not need the instruction. I did not, however, want it available before the class was held. The price of classes was very reasonable ($15-$25 depending on the project and complexity of instruction) and did include the pattern in the price. I allowed the patron to bring their own yarn (as long as it was the proper weight for the project), or to buy the yarn in my shop. The vast majority of the time the yarn was purchased in my shop, but everyone really appreciated this option. I had a few patrons who were on an extremely tight budget and they found it financially easier to buy a more basic yarn. I had no problem with this, as I valued them highly and was sympathetic to their situation (they did pay for the class and would come in and buy yarn when sales were held). There would also be those who bought yarn in the past, usually from my shop, "just because they loved it" and were just waiting for a project to come along (who hasn't done that!). It sounds to me that the owner of this LYS you went to really needs to brush up on her customer service skills, and come up with solutions that benefit all. Instead of gaining a customer, she lost one ~ not good business at all.


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## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

LAURA C said:


> I was down in town I and I happen to pass by a Lys that I don't particularly care for. She had a sweater in the window that I really liked. So against better judgement, I went in. She informed me that it was not for sale, you had to take a class at an exorbitant price to get the pattern. I have been knitting for 35+ years, I am not sitting through a class I can probably teach just to get a pattern and on top of that I probably won't like the yarn you chose. I like to choose my own. If you are not selling the pattern why is it in the window? Learned my lesson, I will never darken her doorstep again.


This entire situation might have been avoided if a small sign below the sweater , with something along the lines of... " This sweater is part of our xyz design collection and only available as part of the class taught by Beth on this day/time. Step inside for more info about this fabulous class and be sure to ask Gladys about the class bundles"...

This is not the first thread about rudeness in LYS. Everyone understands businesses need to make a profit, pay the rent, taxes, overhead, etc. Rude is not the way to do it.

There is really nothing new under the sun. Get a picture, as several have suggested. Wait until the store is closed, if you like, and post it here on KP. I am almost certain several knitters can help you identify the pattern, or another very close to it. It may already be available on Ravelry, for free or not. I don't mind paying a designer for a well-written pattern and appreciate the opportunity to ask the same designer questions about the pattern if I have questions.

Like you, I would rather choose my own yarn. Some of the yarn in my stash has been waiting patiently for me to introduce the right pattern. :sm01: :sm01: :sm01: :sm01:


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## Chriis (May 26, 2016)

Since I've retired, I've really been bitten by the knitting bug. During that time there were a total of 12 LYS (not all in business at the same time) within a 40 mile distance for me. Presently, there are 5 that remain open. FORTUNATELY for me, my very favorite, SHEEP THRILLS, is only about 5-6 miles away. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that I have encountered at that shop has been nothing but friendly and helpful. It is VERY rare that I shop anywhere else but there, mostly because I just WANT to support them. I have experienced the "rude", off-putting behavior at other shops, as others have mentioned. NOT HERE, by any stretch of the imagination. Just LOVE my home away from home. I consider myself very lucky.


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## hobbyknit (Jun 23, 2013)

So just go on line they have THOUSANDS of books and patterns.Amazon Prime gives you points and you can use your points to get a book or whatever, and if you use the points sometimes you get the book for free.


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## Chriis (May 26, 2016)

Since I've retired, I've really been bitten by the knitting bug. During that time there were a total of 12 LYS (not all in business at the same time) within a 40 mile distance for me. Presently, there are 5 that remain open. FORTUNATELY for me, my very favorite, SHEEP THRILLS, is only about 5-6 miles away. EVERY SINGLE PERSON that I have encountered at that shop has been nothing but friendly and helpful. It is VERY rare that I shop anywhere else but there, mostly because I just WANT to support them. I have experienced the "rude", off-putting behavior at other shops, as others have mentioned. NOT HERE, by any stretch of the imagination. Just LOVE my home away from home. I consider myself very lucky.


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## onegrannygoose (May 13, 2011)

in your town do you have a senior center? Even if you are not a senior you would e welcome at the center in our town as long as you were knitting or crocheting and lately we have a few woman that are cross stitching. We have no instructor everyone helps everyone else. It is a wonderful place to be perhaps you could check into something like that in your town. If there is not one you could perhaps start one.


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## ptober (Mar 24, 2011)

Ai have taken one lesson at a lys and was extremely disappointed. The instructor could not explain short rows and did not seem to know the pattern at all. I still have the unfinished project!


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## JCF (Aug 3, 2012)

Joy Marshall said:


> At least she spoke to you. I know a yarn store who doesn't give you the time of day.


Have experienced the same. As soon as the employee found out where I lived, she wouldn't have anything to do with me. Go figure. This area can be rather snobbish.


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

CBB said:


> I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. I was a single mom with two kids in high school. Not a lot of money left for me. Now that I'm retired, I can better afford some things, and I'm pretty much stuck, locally, with Jo Ann, Michael's and the occasional find at Walmart. There's a Hobby Lobby here, but I don't do business with them. There's a yarn store not too far from here, in Aiken, SC, but the reviews I've seen of it make it sound like yours, Laura. More than one said the staff were rude. I'm not driving across the river for that.
> 
> I appreciate that yarn stores are at best a niche market and at worst a dying breed, and it's hard to have financial success. However, every business textbook you'll see will tell you to be nice to your customers. Courtesy is dirt cheap, and will help you to keep interest up among your clientele. There's no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to work with the public.


For many years now I have bought all my yarn on line. I have had excellent and courteous service from all the websites I have used.


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## gardenpoet (Jun 24, 2016)

Hi! I am a newbie to knitting and this is my first post in this fun and interesting forum. I really appreciate all of the advice and helpfulness of everyone here, and the spirit of generosity in which it is given. I would like to add to that here. Like all of you, I make every attempt to enjoy my hobby as in expensively as possible, learning online from videos and forums such as this, searching out places to buy yarns cheaper, etc., That being said, I also understand what it is to run a small business. It is really hard! So many customers treat it as if it were the owner's hobby instead of way to earn a living. I can guarantee you she doesn't make much. After paying the rent, there are local and federal taxes, payroll taxes, employee payroll, costs for utilities, professional fees for CPA or bookkeeper, costs of buying yarns and goods sold plus taxes for those that the retailer has to cover, business licenses, employee benefits, advertising and promotions, shipping costs, garbage costs, cleaning costs, costs for fixing up the space to add shelving etc., bank fees and credit card fees, and probably many other costs I am not even thinking of. And, all of these have to paid every month whether she sells anything or not! So, even though $x for a skein of yarn seems like a lot, she probably only makes a profit of a couple of dollars per skein at most. For even just her rent, say $2,000 a month (and it is likely more), she would have to sell 1,000 skeins of yarn! And that doesn't even touch the rest of her costs, nor does she get to take home anything for herself to live on or save for any future. This is why all the LYSs go out of business, and why we wind up complaining that there is nothing in town but the cold, unhelpful big box stores or that we have to buy online where we cannot touch and feel the yarn before choosing. I am grateful to my local retailers and make a point of sometimes buying from them (the corner hardware store, the little bookstore, the grocery up the block) even though I can usually get things cheaper online just so they will stay in business and make my life easier and happier when I need them. And, while I am lecturing, please let me encourage all of us to not bad mouth a local retailer even when we don't get what we want at a price we want, because doing that will make her go out of business. And then what would go into her space? Probably another bank. I really hope this has helped provide a different view, and that we can all support our local retailers and LYSs--if not by buying there, at least by appreciating their struggles and encouraging others to treat them well. Thank you all for your kind support and teaching me, even though you don't know I am reading your good posts. : )


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## luci2792 (Jan 29, 2014)

What a joy a LYS would be. Having said that I have taken some courses at LYS's when there were such places. I loved the "hands on-ness" and all of the helpfulness of the people running the stores and those taking the courses.

Those days appear to be gone forever. Now we have KP and that does help a lot.

So sorry to read that you had such a difficult experience recently.


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## hildar (Mar 30, 2016)

that's pretty awful. I am a yarn shop owner. I charge $5.00 for 1 1/2 to two hours. beginner classes. now it's turned into a knitting yakking session. don't charge anymore. don't think I'm meant to get rich.


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## northwool (Jun 10, 2013)

I visited a LYS in Maine where the owner was chatty, asking what I was looking for and who I was knitting for (before I knew it, she was my new best friend), had tons of featured samples with free patterns, had a great sale bin with lots of leftovers of dye lots, and even encouraged me to browse her extensive stock room. I purchased both yarn and patterns that day. She even
checked all my yarn to make sure the dye lots matched. Loved the experience and am sad that I was only visiting the area. If anyone wants to know who and where it was, pm me.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

There is a great LYS in Columbus, OH, where I used to live, on the north side of Arlington. It was doing a thriving business partly because the owners and employees were so helpful and just plain nice. There was another shop, Knitter's Emporium (I think that was the name.), but I think it closed. They were very nice, also. No snobbery in either one.
Now in SC I discovered The Village Knittery in Summerville. It's not very large, but they make up for it in pleasant customer service.


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## dmbt (Jan 15, 2013)

northwool said:


> I visited a LYS in Maine where the owner was chatty, asking what I was looking for and who I was knitting for (before I knew it, she was my new best friend), had tons of featured samples with free patterns, had a great sale bin with lots of leftovers of dye lots, and even encouraged me to browse her extensive stock room. I purchased both yarn and patterns that day. She even
> checked all my yarn to make sure the dye lots matched. Loved the experience and am sad that I was only visiting the area. If anyone wants to know who and where it was, pm me.


Sounds exciting, may I ask what town in Maine? ( If you will share, you may private msg me if you don't want to put it in public) I frequented on in northern NH, the best shop and owners in the world, but the country's economy forced them to close. We had a Fri night knitting around the table" session each week and I gained many new friends, I really miss them.


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## northwool (Jun 10, 2013)

I don't know if I am allowed to be specific--might be advertising--but It was The Yardgoods Center in Waterville. Wonderful place and also has sewing materials and loads of buttons.


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

We have two LYS' near by-one being Webs, so I know I am spoiled. I had not been to the other one in years because of two bad experiences there. One time ignored by staff sitting and knitting around a table, and another trying to purchase a book and standing forever at the counter until a clerk came up to me and said that book wasn't for sale because it was the last one. I recently met in a knitting group a woman who works there part time and told me the place now had a new owner and new staff and give it another try. I did and was very pleased. I have no problem paying full price for yarn I really want and enjoy being able to support a local business.


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

northwool said:


> I visited a LYS in Maine where the owner was chatty, asking what I was looking for and who I was knitting for (before I knew it, she was my new best friend), had tons of featured samples with free patterns, had a great sale bin with lots of leftovers of dye lots, and even encouraged me to browse her extensive stock room. I purchased both yarn and patterns that day. She even
> checked all my yarn to make sure the dye lots matched. Loved the experience and am sad that I was only visiting the area. If anyone wants to know who and where it was, pm me.


You are very lucky. Many people, including myself, have had really upsetting experiences with local knitting stores. Including withering remarks. I have told this story a couple of times before on KP. Back when we had very little money, I made myself an intricate two piece dress in acrylic. I was wearing it one day when we were in San Francisco. I walked into a yarn shop and the woman, I presume to be the owner, looked me up and down then said, "Nice outfit. Too bad you didn't use good yarn." I thanked her and walked out of the store without looking at any of her goods.
That said, I don't go into a yarn shop closer to home because the owner does not greet you at all and acts as though you are interrupting her own knitting, which she ie doing constantly. Is it any wonder I buy online?


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## Sunny70 (Jul 25, 2014)

I have so many stories about LYS that I could fill a book! Some about wonderful stores and others about awful ones. It's too bad there isn't a school to just teach how to treat customers! There is a store for sale in my area, I just wish I was younger and could buy it.


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## Patty Sutter (Apr 17, 2012)

LAURA C said:


> I was down in town I and I happen to pass by a Lys that I don't particularly care for. She had a sweater in the window that I really liked. So against better judgement, I went in. She informed me that it was not for sale, you had to take a class at an exorbitant price to get the pattern. I have been knitting for 35+ years, I am not sitting through a class I can probably teach just to get a pattern and on top of that I probably won't like the yarn you chose. I like to choose my own. If you are not selling the pattern why is it in the window? Learned my lesson, I will never darken her doorstep again.


Had a similar experience. It was a lace scarf. 
I wrote down the name of the scarf and found the pattern on ravelry. Free!
She will never see me again.


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## vsigsheba (Aug 15, 2011)

misslucille40 said:


> Yeah, hubby has a problem with socks that cost me $18/ pair to make. He's probably divorce me over a pair that cost $175 !


Agree ... I'm sure even HRM Queen Elizabeth doesn't have socks that cost that much!! These yarns shops really need to examine all the details!! Our LYS also charges an arm & a leg for their classes ....the owner even has a poncho she knit for sale for $375. .... now I ask you ... how difficult is a poncho to knit (& the yarn is nothing special!!). I am a knitting addict & have shared my experience with newbies ... rewards always come & not in $$!!


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## EstherOne (Jan 25, 2016)

CBB said:


> I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. ...snip...


I had been convinced there was only one yarn shop "near" me - about 20 minutes driving. 
Then, searching for a specific brand name on the internet one day, I discovered there are two more, one only five minutes away, the other one about 15 minutes away. With that experience in mind, I did a search for your town, and came up with two: 
One is called "In Stitches", the other one "Knit Together"
Now, I have no idea of the geography of Georgia, but they could just be some LYS' in neighbouring towns that may be easily accessible for you, have a look here:
http://yarnshop.sweaterbabe.com/directory_local_yarn_shops_Georgia.htm


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## jean-bean (Jun 22, 2012)

At least you had a chance of getting the pattern. On holiday with a friend she saw a cardigan in the lys window she liked. Not only did they not have the pattern for sale they didn't even sell the yarn it was knitted in!we did comment to the lady in the shop what a con this was , but she didn't care. Needless to say we didn't buy anything!


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## 86571 (Feb 16, 2013)

Unfortunately this list is outdated. Several on here are closed. Make sure you call before going.


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## Jean Keith (Feb 17, 2011)

If you keep your eyes peeled, you can find yarn and patterns offered by some of the KP folks. I've found patterns and some lovely yarn for very reasonable prices. Watch the Classifieds here every day.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

Joy Marshall said:


> At least she spoke to you. I know a yarn store who doesn't give you the time of day.


The one that is so close and convenient to me has a shop owner who is so abrupt she is nearly rude. She also knew very little about yarns (which she sold). She misinformed me about the yarn needed for a pattern I received from her. So I understand about unfriendly shop owners. I went there a few times, but between the rudeness and the misinformation, I never went back. Her yarns were very expensive anyway. I understand she if out of business now. Too bad you can't have a LYS that is convenient with friendly people. If that pattern is still on display in the shop window, she could go back and just take a picture of it through the window without even going inside, and post it. One of us might recognize it.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

I'm the same way that only offer their designs as part of a kit. I have over 100 gallons (probably 150 gallons!!!) of totes full of yarn. I don't want more yarn unless I buy it specifically. And since most "designer yarns" are way beyond my means these days, the kits are usually at an outrageous price. But it's the same with Mary Maxim or other catalogs that specialize in kits. I want to use up my stash, not add to it. Besides, sooner or later I usually find the pattern elsewhere for free, or I find one I like as well or better. 

And no, I wouldn't have taken the class, either.


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## Julie's Mom (Feb 22, 2015)

That is insane! I could understand it if she wanted you to buy the yarn from her in order to get the pattern, but to require you to take a class is ridiculous! I never take these classes; I don't have time or money for them, and can pretty much figure out what I need to know on my own.


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## Reinharv (Apr 8, 2016)

My LYS has classes but the person(s) teaching classes is not affiliated with the shop. You buy the yarn from the shop and the teacher gets the tuition part. There isn't a whole lot of profit for the shop. 

My LYS often is staffed with volunteers who just want to get out now and then and help other knitters. There is one person who is rude sometimes but most of them are nice.

These shops won't stay open if they can't find a way to make money. If I take a class to knit socks and have to pay the fee I bet I'll really know how to make socks really well instead of cursing my way through it.


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

cindye6556 said:


> I agree. One of the LYS wanted $125 for 4 1hour sock knitting classes, plus all supplies had to be purchased from them...yarn, needles and pattern. So when all was said and done you were looking at $175. To rich for my blood.


I know its not the same as hand knitted socks, but, can you imagine how many store bought ones you could buy for $175!


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## Bea 465 (Mar 27, 2011)

My LYS, Yarn Del Sol is marvelous. When she holds classes she does require that you purchase the yarn for the project from her store, but not your needles, etc. I've taken classes from her because they were things I knew I would need help knitting and the instructors I've had have been great. She has a lot of upkeep, rent, utilities, etc. but I don't consider her fees outrageous. Also she carries yarn in a price range I think to suit all her customers. If I were able, I would still take classes from her. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.


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## JudieG (Jul 8, 2011)

That reminds me of years ago I had seen some red curtains with white ball fringes and loved them. It was only when I went to pay for them that I found out the ball fringe an was add on and did not come with the curtains. Why would anyone do that? To sell the curtains, I guess. I never went back to that store.


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## tmvasquez (May 7, 2013)

cindye6556 said:


> I agree. One of the LYS wanted $125 for 4 1hour sock knitting classes, plus all supplies had to be purchased from them...yarn, needles and pattern. So when all was said and done you were looking at $175. To rich for my blood.


Yikes! That is rediculous. Who can afford that? Think of all the yarn you could buy.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

I go to our LYS for a color fix, sometimes buy on sale yarn which is still pretty costly when I think about the stash I have. They are friendly even though I seldom buy. They have added xstitch and needlepoint to the shop but that is also very expensive, guess I started all my handcrafts when things were a little more reasonable. 
Years ago I had a stitchery/ gift shop, no yarn. People would come in looking for a freebie for bowling banquets, fund raisers, charities etc. one group of car racers said they would gladly advertise for me when I told them I only gave to charities or children's activities, they quickly added, negative advertising. I told them to do as they felt their conscience could handle. How many customers I lost because I would not give banquet prizes to that group, I do not know. My other customers were very loyal and still miss the shop. I closed the shop because they sold the building and could not find any reasonable rent anywhere else. There will always be people who want to spend less, not get it free, I am one of them. If it is a great need I buy it, if I really want it I buy it but rarely break my better be on sale rule. We want a lot but don't need what we want at this stage of our existence.


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## cindye6556 (Apr 6, 2011)

scumbugusa said:


> I know its not the same as hand knitted socks, but, can you imagine how many store bought ones you could buy for $175!


Oh yeah. Enough of the Hanes or No Nonsense to last the remainder of my life.


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## addictedtoknitting (Feb 2, 2012)

I am surprised that this LYS is still in business if the clerk doesn't want to give you the time of day. That's usually how they make their money. If anything, that Store clerk should have sold you the pattern if you would at least purchase some yarn for that particular pattern. That would seem fair.

As for prices for classes, the reason some of the LYS are charging so high is because they are having a hard time competing with the internet. If you googled videos on how to knit, there are many, many videos of people showing you how to knit/crochet for the beginner and FOR FREE!! So if the LYS needs to stay in business, they need to charge a bit more just to stay afloat with the internet competition.

I too have a LYS and we have an evening picked out where we can gather and chit chat and do our knitting/crocheting and yes, there are people taking classes at the same time. The table is pretty small compared to the people with experience in knitting/crocheting. Also in today's generation, people sometimes don't have time to do these beautiful crafts. So they purchase it from the store or Flea Market.

Just my thought is all.

Angie (addictedtoknitting)


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

can you call this store and say" I was passing by and saw your sweater displayed in the window. What is the name of it? Don't tell them your name, just see what they have to say about this pattern. jmo


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Another thought: google the LYS store that you saw the sweater in the window and see if it shows in your search this particular sweater displayed. You could also ask when you call who the designer is. 
What is the town & state this LYS store is in? Maybe someone else can get some information for you.


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## Isuel (Sep 27, 2011)

Politeness and manners don't cost money. I don't know when people lost theirs but I wish it could be found again. It is very sad. I guess people just don't care anymore and those that do I commend you!


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

teenie25 said:


> Can you not get a sneaky photo, pretending to send text or something. Or over shoulder as if you are taking photo across the road. You could then do an image search in google and see if you can find a pattern. Just a thought.


Now that's my kind of thinking....I'm sure there's a similar pattern out there somewhere or create it.

LAURA C - That's pretty much what many shops are all about these days. If you aren't a RB, which most of us aren't, we just cannot afford to even enter these shops. Their prices are sky high, they promote tiny balls of yarn, less than 100 yards, and slap a huge price on it. Then there's the backroom whispering and wine lunches which obviously doesn't include me, the one shopping for reasonably priced yarn. To me this is not a way to keep your doors open--it's a way of promoting exclusive social standing that keeps the "rif-raf" out (the majority of us). If you really want to take a class or knit along with others, best to form your own groups (or choose a friendlier shop) or spring for an on-line Craftsy class (around $20). Supporting your local yarn shop is one thing but when they become snob shops I'm gone.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

mombr4 said:


> That's to bad you have to take a class to get the pattern.
> 
> We don't have many LYS's any longer, the last one closed and surprised they lasted as long as they did.
> I went in for buttons at one time, totally ignored. Saw a baby jacket on display and wanted to make it for a friend's daughter. They told me I had to by the yarn to get the pattern. I did since it only took 2 balls of a super chunky yarn. The pattern was on a piece of paper with their store letter head. Found out about a year later the pattern wasn't theirs but was a Plymouth yarn pattern. Came across it while on their site looking for something for a friend.
> ...


Great idea, I want to get a picture but was afraid I would get caught. Never thought to go when she is closed. You are a ingenious!


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

LAURA C said:


> Great idea, I want to get a picture but was afraid I would get caught. Never thought to go when she is closed. You are a ingenious!


Does it matter if you got caught? Is it against the law to take a picture? You are not invading someone's privacy. It is on public display, isn't it?


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Ask4j said:


> Now that's my kind of thinking....I'm sure there's a similar pattern out there somewhere or create it.
> 
> LAURA C - That's pretty much what many shops are all about these days. If you aren't a RB, which most of us aren't, we just cannot afford to even enter these shops. Their prices are sky high, they promote tiny balls of yarn, less than 100 yards, and slap a huge price on it. Then there's the backroom whispering and wine lunches which obviously doesn't include me, the one shopping for reasonably priced yarn. To me this is not a way to keep your doors open--it's a way of promoting exclusive social standing that keeps the "rif-raf" out (the majority of us). If you really want to take a class or knit along with others, best to form your own groups (or choose a friendlier shop) or spring for an on-line Craftsy class (around $20). Supporting your local yarn shop is one thing but when they become snob shops I'm gone.


For all the shops I have been in all over the U.S. I see this scenario as in the minority. My rich friends don't shun other knitters, all receive the newsletters, your choice to go if you want to participate in after hour activities. I don't go to wine nights because I don't drink and drive not because I figure they figure they are better than the average customer. Some prices are way beyond me but I still like to see what is out there and owners choice to cater to whatever price range they deem works. If the door is open to public purchases I doubt they are trying to create an exclusive club. But of course they can invite whomever they chose to their gatherings, it is their store. I disagree that the rest of us are riffraff, we just have different needs and pocketbooks. The individual groups that meet and knit here seem to set their own group rules or whatever you want to call it, the store owner doesn't dictate what they do when they meet there except that they not be overly noisy, friendly to whomever stops in and hopefully share hints and tips.


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## RedLilly (Jun 17, 2016)

being somewhat unknowing, what is LYS? please


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## nannalois47 (Apr 12, 2016)

Some people should not be in a business where they deal with people. To bad she doesn't realize she is cutting her business by being so rude and u pleasant. I'd not shop there either.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

Krykit said:


> I used to own a small yarn shop (closed it 4 years ago) and would hold classes. If a class was for a specific item, such as the sweater in this LYS window, I would place a sign next to the item (my display was in the store itself, not in the window) that advertised the class and a note that said the "pattern only" would be available for purchase after whatever the date of the class was. I did this so experienced knitters such as yourself would not be denied the pattern just because they did not need the instruction. I did not, however, want it available before the class was held. The price of classes was very reasonable ($15-$25 depending on the project and complexity of instruction) and did include the pattern in the price. I allowed the patron to bring their own yarn (as long as it was the proper weight for the project), or to buy the yarn in my shop. The vast majority of the time the yarn was purchased in my shop, but everyone really appreciated this option. I had a few patrons who were on an extremely tight budget and they found it financially easier to buy a more basic yarn. I had no problem with this, as I valued them highly and was sympathetic to their situation (they did pay for the class and would come in and buy yarn when sales were held). There would also be those who bought yarn in the past, usually from my shop, "just because they loved it" and were just waiting for a project to come along (who hasn't done that!). It sounds to me that the owner of this LYS you went to really needs to brush up on her customer service skills, and come up with solutions that benefit all. Instead of gaining a customer, she lost one ~ not good business at all.


I understand that yarn shops are a business and if they don't make money they go belly up, not good for owner or client. I could have lived with the pattern not being available until after the class. I can see selling it as a kit. I can't see being told I had to pay $225 for the class I did not need and materials. Needles were not I included. This is the second shop she opened. I do not understand how she stays in business.


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

dmbt said:


> I have been using nothing but Baby Bee Sweet Delight (DK) yarn (comes in many, many colors not just baby colors) from Hobby Lobby since they moved into town. I love that yarn because I was spending big bucks for decent yarn and giving everything away. We also have a Joann's, a Michaels and a Walmart here, but since trying this yarn, its all I use, unless I make myself a sweater then I drive 22 miles for the LYS.
> The thing I respect Hobby Lobby for, is that they close on Sunday. I was told that's because its owned by a devout Christian. I'm not sure if this is true, but they are very good to the help.


Here's the rub: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/laura-chapin/2014/07/14/hobby-lobby-contraception-decision-isnt-just-wrong-its-insulting


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## carlacrn (Jan 20, 2015)

RedLilly said:


> being somewhat unknowing, what is LYS? please


Local Yarn Store/Shop


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## Sftflannelnjeans (Mar 11, 2016)

I got very fortunate, in my learning the finer points of knitting. I had two older friends at church who knitted, one back in Mississippi, and one here in Michigan, who were able to answer most anything I asked them about.....all at no cost, and one left me all her knitting things when she's passed away.


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## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

I recently saw a FABULOUS Fair Isle beret in my LYS . I wish I could take the class in knitting it . I could probably do it myself but it's nice to knit with others and share crafting secrets etc .
I took a lace knitting class at that store and enjoyed it very much . The yarn there is expensive ,I have to admit that ,still we pay for quality .


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

kubbo said:


> I worked at a LYS for several years and we just closed our doors for good.
> We offered classes for 80.00 dollars for 4 two hour classes plus we had free couch time three days a week to help with problems.
> We also offered private lessons for 30.00 dollars for an hour and a half. The boss was always giving away free patterns when we got them free, we just asked for a purchase of any kind to help pay for the printing. The main reason we closed was because people would come in, look at the yarn take down the name and color # and then order on line.
> We were always polite and willing to help but we still had people say we were rude. That was because we usually only had one person working at a time (to keep costs down) and some very important people would not want wait their turn or did not like our return policy. I really will miss the shop we had many lovely customers and I will miss them too.


Really sorry to hear this....sounds like you gave it your best by far. Some people do need one-on-one coaching and where else can you get it.

The furniture business had been in the same boat when it comes to on-line shopping--however, that has been addressed and has changed. But back in the 1980's when TV selling direct was the in-thing, I would have customers come to our store get free interior design help in selecting fabrics, given prices on their selections and then just leave and never come back--when called they just said they ordered direct. The fault is with the manufacturers--they are selling directly and cutting off all retail outlets--they actually encouraged people to go to local stores, telling who carried their products, to get free help choosing fabrics. This kind of underhandedness leaves them with no retail outlets carrying their products and they are out of business. Same with yarn manufacturers, why would they undercut their retail outlets, not including the shops that add 10% or more to their prices? Places like Webs (Yarn.com) are not the manufacturer but instead have many their own yarns created for them exclusively so not the same thing and you won't find their product in retail stores (I haven't checked their branded products for price). But on-line outlets that sell branded yarns & supplies are getting a special deal from the manufacturers so they can undercut shop prices--shame on the manufacturers because retail is live with employees and store over-head costs, direct interaction with customers and offer personal service whereas on-line is just a convenience. (Sometimes I shop on-line then check out my lys to see if they have it to avoid shipping costs.)


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## kdpa07734 (Nov 10, 2015)

Would it be illegal to take a photo through the shop window? It does face the road, does it not? If she fusses, tell her you want to show hubby what you want the money for (just not from her, but you don't tell her that).


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Ask4j said:


> Here's the rub: http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/laura-chapin/2014/07/14/hobby-lobby-contraception-decision-isnt-just-wrong-its-insulting


If they would just tailor insurance to need, a lot would not be being fought over. I pay for birthing, not needed, birth control, not needed, male troubles, not needed and on and on. 
As far as companies being made to pay for things, why do we travel into the realm of someone must pay for everything? If it is not a medical problem , then my thought is pay for anything personal yourself, okay I will not be debating birth control. There are plenty of free places that can be procured, or give up a latte, a tattoo , the best phone and take care of yourself. Entitlement drives me nuts. The Constitution may state we are all created equal, but that does not envelope economic status, we are free to earn that status ourselves. And there too there are plenty of generous people to help those who need it. Be it female discrimination or not, expectations of free has led up to these insurance scenarios, IMHO. Sorry this has gotten off the trail of LYS.


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## tami_ohio (Mar 22, 2011)

misslucille40 said:


> Yeah, hubby has a problem with socks that cost me $18/ pair to make. He's probably divorce me over a pair that cost $175 !


Ask your hubby how many pair of socks he has had to buy in the time you have had those $18/pair socks? Break it down to how often you wear each pair and how long you have had them. My first pair cost me $18 15 years ago. I have worn them once a week every year from September to May. That is 504 wearings in 15 years. That becomes $0.0556 per wearing. I gauruntee that your hubby can't say that about any pair of his because none of his have ever lasted 15 years! I have finally had to repair them this year because I caught the bottom of a heel on a screw in the carpet mounding.


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## ChristmasTree (Nov 28, 2011)

I hope you will take a picture and post it here. Now I'm curious! It had to come from somewhere and I bet someone here could find it. That was a very sensible idea one person/shop owner had to offer the pattern after the class.


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## susanrs1 (Mar 21, 2011)

I agree with you - I'm sure you could teach the class. Sounds like yet another snobby store of which there seems to be no shortage. When the hell did knitting get to be like this? I remember when I used to buy yarn in a grocery store, yes, that's right a grocery store.


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## JJSteiner (May 12, 2014)

look online for the pattern.. try Moogly.com, I believe the site is..


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

CBB said:


> I live in the second-largest city in Georgia, and there is no local yarn store. There was a small one when we first moved here, high prices, limited selection. I was a single mom with two kids in high school. Not a lot of money left for me. Now that I'm retired, I can better afford some things, and I'm pretty much stuck, locally, with Jo Ann, Michael's and the occasional find at Walmart. There's a Hobby Lobby here, but I don't do business with them. There's a yarn store not too far from here, in Aiken, SC, but the reviews I've seen of it make it sound like yours, Laura. More than one said the staff were rude. I'm not driving across the river for that.
> 
> I appreciate that yarn stores are at best a niche market and at worst a dying breed, and it's hard to have financial success. However, every business textbook you'll see will tell you to be nice to your customers. Courtesy is dirt cheap, and will help you to keep interest up among your clientele. There's no excuse for rudeness. Unfortunately, not everyone is cut out to work with the public.


There is a lovely lys in the downtown area of Chatanooga, TN. The yarn is well organized and the owner and employee were most helpful even though both knew I was from out of town (long way to West TX). They were also helpful and very polite to my husband who was insisting on ordering skeins of yarn I wanted but thought were too pricey. They took time to listen and suggest yarn for my project. Maybe too far from you also though maybe worth a drive. I have fond memories of them and their pleasant store. Oh and they had a good selection of well displayed patterns!


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## hildar (Mar 30, 2016)

local yarn shop.


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## 4578 (Feb 2, 2011)

jinx said:


> I have found classes are extremely expensive. Hard to pay those prices when I can find out what I need to know on Paradise and the internet. I suppose she is doing everything she can to make money to keep her shop open.


Not only did I travel 350 miles to a yarn store to take a class on fair isle knitting (plus food and hotel), but I paid $35 for the class only to have the instuctor sit and knit on her own project. Now $35 is not a lot of money though I did expect to learn something from the instructor. She would stand up occassionally, demonstrate a technique then sit back down.


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## 5th Angel (Jul 16, 2012)

Isn't it funny how LYS atmosphere and customer service differ from one to another. I was recently on a road trip with my husband and made him stop at three different shops on the trip. The first one had a somewhat helpful owner and some cute knitted patterns. The second had a wonderful helper, covering for the owner. She made me feel so welcome and talked to me like I was a long lost friend. Store had cute knitted patterns and a wide variety of different yarns. The third store, the owner was cold as ice. Very non-communicative and I felt like I was really bothering her (asking questions), being in the store. Guess, which one I will be returning to, the next chance I can get there.


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## Valanteen (Sep 28, 2011)

What horrible manners! I have not heard too many nice things about that store so I will not shop there. When I shop and the salespeople are ill mannered my dollar will spend elswhere. I was brought up that manners defines what lass you belong to. Poor manners equal...white trash and to stay away from them.


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

RedLilly said:


> being somewhat unknowing, what is LYS? please


local yarn shop


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## LAURA C (Jan 21, 2013)

Joy Marshall said:


> Does it matter if you got caught? Is it against the law to take a picture? You are not invading someone's privacy. It is on public display, isn't it?


I've been told it is only illegal if you get caught, so I will go when she is closed and avoid any confrontation.


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## bp42168 (Jul 29, 2011)

Can't wait to see a picture. YOU GO GIRL!!!!!!!!


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## Daushalynn1 (Oct 14, 2014)

That happened to me before. I also had been knitting for years and just wanted to purchase the pattern and the lady said if you take a class, you will get the pattern free. Sorry I did not need a class. I never liked the woman and still do not like her either. Unfortunately, she is the only one that has a yarn shop in our city so I go to Michaels to purchase my products not that they have all the yarn I like but I will not support her store.

Daushalynn


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## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

CL said:


> CBB, check out EatSleepKnit.com. They are located in Smyrna but sell online also. I know ordering isn't as good as seeing and touching the yarn, but I have had great luck with them and they have a great selection.


I'll take a look at it online. Smyrna is about 160 miles from where I live. Thanks for the tip.


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## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

EstherOne said:


> I had been convinced there was only one yarn shop "near" me - about 20 minutes driving.
> Then, searching for a specific brand name on the internet one day, I discovered there are two more, one only five minutes away, the other one about 15 minutes away. With that experience in mind, I did a search for your town, and came up with two:
> One is called "In Stitches", the other one "Knit Together"
> Now, I have no idea of the geography of Georgia, but they could just be some LYS' in neighbouring towns that may be easily accessible for you, have a look here:
> http://yarnshop.sweaterbabe.com/directory_local_yarn_shops_Georgia.htm


In Stitches is an embroidery shop. I've looked high and low for Knit Together. The address given is in a shopping plaza not far from where I live, but I cannot find the store. They've either moved or gone out of business.


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## Runner Girl (Mar 27, 2013)

Ellemck said:


> Good for you!


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## Joy Marshall (Apr 6, 2011)

All this brings to mind something that occurred to me over 30 years ago. I had moved to a new neighbourhood and knew there was a yarn shop there. I was knitting a sweater with a "lozence" pattern. Which meant that there were several sets of "lozenges", or ovals, with each row of lozenges in a different colour. All were separated by a solid colour. I had a couple of the colours for the lozenges in my stash but needed a couple more.
I went into this shop that was new to me and was browsing the different colours. A man and wife owned the store and finally the man asked me what I was looking for.
I explained what I wanted and his wife produced the pattern. He looked at it and said to me, "It won't work, you know." I said, "what won't work?" He replied, "You can't mix yarn you already have in a sweater with a different yarn." 
Since I had been knitting since before he was born, I went to the door and my parting shot was, "Well, I am going to make it work." And I did. Needless to say I did not become one of their customers.
I still have that sweater which looks kind of dated to me now, but I still wear it around the house.


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## Cdambro (Dec 30, 2013)

gardenpoet said:


> Hi! I am a newbie to knitting and this is my first post in this fun and interesting forum. I really appreciate all of the advice and helpfulness of everyone here, and the spirit of generosity in which it is given. I would like to add to that here. Like all of you, I make every attempt to enjoy my hobby as in expensively as possible, learning online from videos and forums such as this, searching out places to buy yarns cheaper, etc., That being said, I also understand what it is to run a small business. It is really hard! So many customers treat it as if it were the owner's hobby instead of way to earn a living. I can guarantee you she doesn't make much. After paying the rent, there are local and federal taxes, payroll taxes, employee payroll, costs for utilities, professional fees for CPA or bookkeeper, costs of buying yarns and goods sold plus taxes for those that the retailer has to cover, business licenses, employee benefits, advertising and promotions, shipping costs, garbage costs, cleaning costs, costs for fixing up the space to add shelving etc., bank fees and credit card fees, and probably many other costs I am not even thinking of. And, all of these have to paid every month whether she sells anything or not! So, even though $x for a skein of yarn seems like a lot, she probably only makes a profit of a couple of dollars per skein at most. For even just her rent, say $2,000 a month (and it is likely more), she would have to sell 1,000 skeins of yarn! And that doesn't even touch the rest of her costs, nor does she get to take home anything for herself to live on or save for any future. This is why all the LYSs go out of business, and why we wind up complaining that there is nothing in town but the cold, unhelpful big box stores or that we have to buy online where we cannot touch and feel the yarn before choosing. I am grateful to my local retailers and make a point of sometimes buying from them (the corner hardware store, the little bookstore, the grocery up the block) even though I can usually get things cheaper online just so they will stay in business and make my life easier and happier when I need them. And, while I am lecturing, please let me encourage all of us to not bad mouth a local retailer even when we don't get what we want at a price we want, because doing that will make her go out of business. And then what would go into her space? Probably another bank. I really hope this has helped provide a different view, and that we can all support our local retailers and LYSs--if not by buying there, at least by appreciating their struggles and encouraging others to treat them well. Thank you all for your kind support and teaching me, even though you don't know I am reading your good posts. : )


First, let me say welcome. I agree with your post. My LYS has very nice yarn and much is out of my price range but they also have sale yarn and from what I see, for instance, they have sock yard very comparable to the box stores. They have a larger skein while I am noticing that the box stores sell smaller balls so you need 2-3 for a pair of socks. Ends up costing more in the long run. My LYS will have a 'project' on display and on the little tag, it specifically says it is a pattern taught in a class. Or they have a sign. The little tags on the display items tell you what yarn was used and what pattern. Perhaps that was just missed by the OP.

I know my LYS is paying salaries, lease, utilities, taxes, etc, etc. they cannot compete with the Walmarts in life so by all means shop there or the internet but there is no way the local stores can sell at the same price. I don't understand getting mad about that and expecting Internet prices. I have taken one class and was it worth the money, yes. I grew up in a small town and still live in one and try to support local. Or, they will be empty with no choice other than Walmart.


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> If they would just tailor insurance to need, a lot would not be being fought over. I pay for birthing, not needed, birth control, not needed, male troubles, not needed and on and on.
> As far as companies being made to pay for things, why do we travel into the realm of someone must pay for everything? If it is not a medical problem , then my thought is pay for anything personal yourself, okay I will not be debating birth control. There are plenty of free places that can be procured, or give up a latte, a tattoo , the best phone and take care of yourself. Entitlement drives me nuts. The Constitution may state we are all created equal, but that does not envelope economic status, we are free to earn that status ourselves. And there too there are plenty of generous people to help those who need it. Be it female discrimination or not, expectations of free has led up to these insurance scenarios, IMHO. Sorry this has gotten off the trail of LYS.


 insurance is insurance hobbyloppy is controlling what the insurance covers to promote their religious beliefs.


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## caseykey (Jun 14, 2013)

Thanks for your posting from your experience. Yes, I live in SW Florida and we have one of those "Pricey" little yarn shops about 12 miles north of me. They show completed projects in the store and window and you must attend a class and buy their yarn. It is nice but some of it is outrageous in price. The local shop in town gets little business which is sad.


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## Lorikeet (Jan 15, 2016)

Staying away sounds like a good decision. :sm24:


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## oannejay (Apr 12, 2012)

I'm posting because I want to see the picture of the sweater. Good luck with the off hours approach. I bet someone on KP has made it or has seen it. Advise and helping each other is what this site is about.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Ask4j said:


> insurance is insurance hobbyloppy is controlling what the insurance covers to promote their religious beliefs.


My point, I thought was fairly clear, was that insurance can be different and people need to pay for their own non medical items.


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## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

I understand she needs to do what she can to keep her shop viable but I don't understand why she can't sell the patterns without the classes... She would likely keep more happy customers that way, who would return and possibly spend more $ in her shop... I wonder how many others like you, have been bothered by the same thing and refuse to return? :sm19: :sm19: :sm19:


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## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

Byrney said:


> I'm sure that if something is on public display, such as a shop window, you are perfectly within your rights to take a photograph. I'd do that, post the picture here and people will look for a similar pattern for you, or give you ideas of how to make it without a pattern.


I did this in Venice but the shop owner didn't like it and came outside and watched me! I think he thought I was planning a robbery, I was photographing his gorgeous sapphire jewellery... :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


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## seeka (Jun 9, 2016)

hahaha, that is funny, Laura! I would be angry too.


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## Lorikeet (Jan 15, 2016)

The owner of my LYS said she thought the previous owner was stupid because she stocked a number of non-knitting products, including embroidery cottons. I said most shops needed to diversify to attract more customers. A few months later and after a negative change in the exchange rate, her shop had to close.

Clearly the shop owner mentioned by the KPer here was hoping to make $$$$$ from the classes.


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

I love the main LYS that I frequent - has a great range of yarns in a variety of price bands and the staff are lovely - more than willing to help, which I seldom need, unless it is to order in more of a given colourway if necessary.

A colleague who hasn't knitted for eons went to another one in town and was disgusted. The woman had a look at the pattern Carole had printed off the internet and huffed and said "Oh it's American - I don't know what is going to work for that!"

The pattern was for a baby blanket and used worsted weight which we don't have, but 10ply is a very close equivalent and she does stock that. Even using 8ply and adding 2 stitches per 20 cast on would work to achieve size - not rocket science, but she preferred to lose a sale than to put in a little effort. I doubt the shop was frantically busy, based on the times I've been in there!

But she is an employee, not an owner - 'nuff said!


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## swampygirl (Nov 1, 2011)

It's in the window so people just as you did will go and enquire. And those not so experienced will more than not sign up for the classes. Also while in there maybe make a purchase. 
Why do you think supermarkets put confectionery at the check out. So the kids will see them and badger their the poor exhausted mum into buying some just to shut them up.
There is always a reason.


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## SandraM (Jul 23, 2011)

Take a picture when the shop is closed - just a thought.


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## sam0767 (Jun 20, 2012)

LAURA C said:


> Great idea, I want to get a picture but was afraid I would get caught. Never thought to go when she is closed. You are a ingenious!


You shouldn't have to wait until the shop is closed to get a photo. You are on a public sidewalk and its displayed for people to view it from the street. She can't stop you from taking a photo from the street. If that's the case then she should display it inside the shop where you have to enter the shop to see it.


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## northwool (Jun 10, 2013)

That is why I also stopped shopping at Hobby Lobby. A business is a business. Religious faith is religious faith. If anyone wants to operate a business, that is a secular activity and employees who are not of the owners' faith should not have to abide by the owners particular slant on behavior when they are not at work.


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

northwool said:


> That is why I also stopped shopping at Hobby Lobby. A business is a business. Religious faith is religious faith. If anyone wants to operate a business, that is a secular activity and employees who are not of the owners' faith should not have to abide by the owners particular slant on behavior when they are not at work.


The employer is not controlling their employees' behaviour - they are just not funding the forms of contraception that terminate a pregnancy.


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## janeafennell (Dec 11, 2011)

When I took knitting classes at Sears, Roebuck and Company 49 years ago, I didn't have to pay anything for the class... I just bought the yarn, needles, and beginner's note book there and that was it.....My how things have changed...


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## ginnysandel (Mar 27, 2013)

In the beginning I took classes.....but the prices were a LOT more reasonable (can't remember how much-too many years ago) ..... My LYS now .... seems like they charge about $50 for a 4 week class and you get a discount on ANY yarn you buy while enrolled in the class. Not a bad deal ..... but I haven't found anything recently that I need a class for. Both yarn stores in area (Mesa & Tempe, AZ) will give any help you need for free if you purchase the yarn from them...so that is what I do.


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## CBB (Sep 12, 2014)

Hilary4 said:


> The employer is not controlling their employees' behaviour - they are just not funding the forms of contraception that terminate a pregnancy.


Hobby Lobby controls how many hours their employees work, and where, and how they dress. They don't provide uniforms, mind you, they just dictate their version of what 'business casual' is supposed to be, so if your clothes don't suit them, you have to buy ones that do. My niece worked for them for quite a while. She was a good worker, and they often sent her out on new store sets, away from home. The money was good, so she complied, for a while. On the last one, however, she and her husband, who has his own career, and can't just pick up and move, were living apart for almost a year. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for her.

Pregnancy termination is not their only objection. They won't provide coverage for contraception for women of childbearing age, either. That's an entirely different thing.


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## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

gardenpoet said:


> Hi! I am a newbie to knitting and this is my first post in this fun and interesting forum. I really appreciate all of the advice and helpfulness of everyone here, and the spirit of generosity in which it is given. I would like to add to that here. Like all of you, I make every attempt to enjoy my hobby as in expensively as possible, learning online from videos and forums such as this, searching out places to buy yarns cheaper, etc., That being said, I also understand what it is to run a small business. It is really hard! So many customers treat it as if it were the owner's hobby instead of way to earn a living. I can guarantee you she doesn't make much. After paying the rent, there are local and federal taxes, payroll taxes, employee payroll, costs for utilities, professional fees for CPA or bookkeeper, costs of buying yarns and goods sold plus taxes for those that the retailer has to cover, business licenses, employee benefits, advertising and promotions, shipping costs, garbage costs, cleaning costs, costs for fixing up the space to add shelving etc., bank fees and credit card fees, and probably many other costs I am not even thinking of. And, all of these have to paid every month whether she sells anything or not! So, even though $x for a skein of yarn seems like a lot, she probably only makes a profit of a couple of dollars per skein at most. For even just her rent, say $2,000 a month (and it is likely more), she would have to sell 1,000 skeins of yarn! And that doesn't even touch the rest of her costs, nor does she get to take home anything for herself to live on or save for any future. This is why all the LYSs go out of business, and why we wind up complaining that there is nothing in town but the cold, unhelpful big box stores or that we have to buy online where we cannot touch and feel the yarn before choosing. I am grateful to my local retailers and make a point of sometimes buying from them (the corner hardware store, the little bookstore, the grocery up the block) even though I can usually get things cheaper online just so they will stay in business and make my life easier and happier when I need them. And, while I am lecturing, please let me encourage all of us to not bad mouth a local retailer even when we don't get what we want at a price we want, because doing that will make her go out of business. And then what would go into her space? Probably another bank. I really hope this has helped provide a different view, and that we can all support our local retailers and LYSs--if not by buying there, at least by appreciating their struggles and encouraging others to treat them well. Thank you all for your kind support and teaching me, even though you don't know I am reading your good posts. : )


If you will reread the original post in this thread, I believe you will understand why your reply completely missed the entire point.

This is not about the price of yarn, the trials and tribulations of owning _any_ business, or the reluctance of those who choose not to enrich the local economy by supporting small businesses.

This topic resurfaces almost like clockwork, and it is about the inability of some shop owners to understand the direct link between good customer service and profit... that happy jingling sound the cash register used to make when a customer made a purchase.

I reserve the right to leave any establishment and take my pocket book with me if I am not treated with respect.

If the unhappy owner chooses to whine and complain, blame it on the economy, the cost of everything, the hours, the bunions, the awful people who show up and expect personal service for the privilege of spending their money on luxury items that cost less online... yeah, that's why shops close.

I grew up in a neighborhood family grocery store, I saw good customer service happen in real time, every day, and recognize it when I see it.

Bad mouth local retailers ? If it happened, it happened. The truth is not bad mouthing, and if several people are having the same experience, the owner needs to look in the mirror and take a long hard look at their own personal inventory... that set of personality traits that make a trip to their establishment unpleasant and ultimately avoidable.

When I visit big box stores, most of the employees are pleasant and helpful. Cold ? I can honestly say this has never been my experience. On the other hand, I have had exactly one bad experience in each of three LYS that are now closed, and I can only imagine others have had the same experiences.

When I shop for yarn , it is always online, and at the same 3 retailers. They consistently give me good service, fast, courteous and go the extra mile to make sure I am happy and enjoy my purchase. The very opposite of cold, sarcastic, and rude LYS drama. I have spent $60/skein for some beautiful luxury yarn and did not regret it a single minute. For me this was extravagant, and I imagine most knitters would agree. The purchase experience was every bit as delightful as the yarn. And I would do it again.


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

CBB said:


> Hobby Lobby controls how many hours their employees work, and where, and how they dress. They don't provide uniforms, mind you, they just dictate their version of what 'business casual' is supposed to be, so if your clothes don't suit them, you have to buy ones that do. My niece worked for them for quite a while. She was a good worker, and they often sent her out on new store sets, away from home. The money was good, so she complied, for a while. On the last one, however, she and her husband, who has his own career, and can't just pick up and move, were living apart for almost a year. That was the straw that broke the camel's back for her.
> 
> Pregnancy termination is not their only objection. They won't provide coverage for contraception for women of childbearing age, either. That's an entirely different thing.


Many, many employers have a dress standard they expect to be upheld - both of mine do. I doubt anyone who has just had a breast cancer diagnosis (for example) wants to talk to one of our supportive care staff with her real boobs half falling out.

And don't come to work in NZ and expect your employer to pay for anything to do with your sex life - that is the individual's responsibility, as it should be. Or your healthcare for that matter.


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## Julie's Mom (Feb 22, 2015)

I'm with northwools.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

janeafennell said:


> When I took knitting classes at Sears, Roebuck and Company 49 years ago, I didn't have to pay anything for the class... I just bought the yarn, needles, and beginner's note book there and that was it.....My how things have changed...


I was having trouble with an afghan , MPLs area, Daytons in fact ,and the instructor told me , how would I know why you have a ridge on the back of stst ? So much for buying their service! Now I chuckle about it because obviously she did not like her job or knew nothing about it. I don't think any of the big stores even sell yarn anymore. But I put that project down and did no more knitting for about 12 years. Xstitch took its place. That sweater is still in pieces and would fit my GD and I best finish and sew it up.


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## Geraldine04 (May 15, 2015)

run4fittness said:


> I don't blame you!
> 
> And what makes it worse is the class instructors don't get paid that much. It depends on how many take the class. The yarn store is the one that really comes out ahead.


Well said you! Why not take a photo of the pattern displayed in her window and put it on here, we may be able to help identify it and then she can wear it passing by her shop! What a surprise for her....Geraldine xx


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## misslucille40 (Aug 9, 2013)

scumbugusa said:


> I know its not the same as hand knitted socks, but, can you imagine how many store bought ones you could buy for $175!


Haha! That's just what hubby always says ! Of course, he loves the ones I make for him.


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## northwool (Jun 10, 2013)

I disagree. They are not wanting to fund contraceptive prescriptions. In other words, if an employee wants to avoid pregnancy, they do not want this medication paid for by their company insurance policy. A way to save them money and also to promote their way of thinking about the female body--women should not have the right to make their own decisions about their health care and individual life situations. I believe these decisions are personal and none of the business of an employer.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

northwool said:


> I disagree. They are not wanting to fund contraceptive prescriptions. In other words, if an employee wants to avoid pregnancy, they do not want this medication paid for by their company insurance policy. A way to save them money and also to promote their way of thinking about the female body--women should not have the right to make their own decisions about their health care and individual life situations. I believe these decisions are personal and none of the business of an employer.


I agree about these decisions being personal, that is why when it is not a medical problem, ie dangerous to health to be pregnant, then they can pay for them themselves or go to an agency that does. Premiums would be a lot different if people took responsibility for their own bodies as we all want. We older folks will be getting shut out of replacements , life saving preventative procedures etc. at a certain age so why bleed the system dry of things that can be taken care of personally. We all did when we had huge deductibles, paying our own way and doing without luxuries to so do. Do not want to sound like sour grapes. Take a poll, our insurances never paid for birth control years ago, lobbying has gotten us into deep entitlement for all our personal needs, and those who actually worked hard for retirement etc. still help foot the bill. But no more, this thread was robbed once again by Hobby Lobby comments, it has been ridden hard and and none of us will be changing the others mind any time soon. No hard feelings created I hope as we are all entitled to our opinion.
Now back to the op, our LYS gives free beginner lessons for crochet and knitting if you buy the supplies there.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

Montana Gramma said:


> I agree about these decisions being personal, that is why when it is not a medical problem, ie dangerous to health to be pregnant, then they can pay for them themselves or go to an agency that does. Premiums would be a lot different if people took responsibility for their own bodies as we all want. We older folks will be getting shut out of replacements , life saving preventative procedures etc. at a certain age so why bleed the system dry of things that can be taken care of personally. We all did when we had huge deductibles, paying our own way and doing without luxuries to so do. Do not want to sound like sour grapes. Take a poll, our insurances never paid for birth control years ago, lobbying has gotten us into deep entitlement for all our personal needs, and those who actually worked hard for retirement etc. still help foot the bill. But no more, this thread was robbed once again by Hobby Lobby comments, it has been ridden hard and and none of us will be changing the others mind any time soon. No hard feelings created I hope as we are all entitled to our opinion.
> Now back to the op, our LYS gives free beginner lessons for crochet and knitting if you buy the supplies there.


I consider it (birth control) a kind of "recreational drug." Are we going to, next, have to pay for peoples liquor? I do believe medical pot is, but I'm not sure if the treatment isn't worse than the disease. I think under some dire circumstances, abortion could be covered under insurance. But not just as a convenient method of birth control. I do believe fetuses are babies, but there are a few gray areas.
That is an interesting twist. If we allow governments to dispense birth control, euthanasia, abortions, we are in dangerous territory, because with that one out of Pandora's box, then when will they start making things mandatory, and people lose all control over their own decisions? Never thought of that before.


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## bp42168 (Jul 29, 2011)

Are you going to take a picture?


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## Reinharv (Apr 8, 2016)

If you want to take a picture of the item do so and if anyone says something, all you need to say is you are taking a picture to send to a friend who wants to see the final product before committing to buying the yarn and pattern.


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## rubyglass (Aug 28, 2015)

Please take a photo! I am so curious after so much discussion about it.


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## barbarafletcher (Apr 2, 2012)

Take a photo and put it on knitters paradise...somebody might know of it...

Good luck..


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