# Smoking and Obamacare #10



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> It would be more interesting to know why the IRS did a preemptive apology on a Friday afternoon. Humm, a diversion from Benghazi? Well that certainly backfired on them.
> 
> Wasn't using the IRS against enemies one of charges against Nixon? I am sure it was. Obamagate has a nice ring to it


Use of the IRS against enemies? At this point there is no tying this to the White House Fox Noise says.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm just going to sit back and wait for the wheels of justice to turn even though obama and his cronies are trying to throw wrenches into them to stop the truth from coming out.


Giving up already? Why Thumper, I had you pegged as one of the front runners in the Benghazi Two-Step--you can't fall by the wayside so soon. Up on your feet, girl.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For those who have stated there is no voter fraud; The reason you have not heard much about it is that it takes years to prove, to go through the court system. This case took about 5 years. If the fraud had not been committed Obama would not have been on the primary ballot in Indiana. And Hillary Clinton may have been our President.
> 
> This is only one instance. But when dead people vote, there has to be voter fraud.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/jury-fraud-put-obama-on-08-ballot/


LOL! Our own State Attorney General's personal assistant was found to have a fake name, ID, and voted with it.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> For those who have stated there is no voter fraud; The reason you have not heard much about it is that it takes years to prove, to go through the court system. This case took about 5 years. If the fraud had not been committed Obama would not have been on the primary ballot in Indiana. And Hillary Clinton may have been our President.
> 
> This is only one instance. But when dead people vote, there has to be voter fraud.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/jury-fraud-put-obama-on-08-ballot/


Voter fraud in 2004: Ohio's Secretary of State announced [on December 14, 2007] that a $1.9 million official study shows that "critical security failures" are embedded throughout the voting systems in the state that decided the 2004 election. Those failures, she says, "could impact the integrity of elections in the Buckeye State." They have rendered Ohio's vote counts "vulnerable" to manipulation and theft by "fairly simple techniques."

It happens in every election. I vote we move on.....


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yeah right. Did you ever stop to think that it is none of your business?
> A person shouldn't have to define themselves by color to you or anybody else. We are all proud of our heritage too, but we don't wear it on our sleeves. We are Americans. That should suffice.


 :thumbup:


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yeah right. Did you ever stop to think that it is none of your business?
> A person shouldn't have to define themselves by color to you or anybody else. We are all proud of our heritage too, but we don't wear it on our sleeves. We are Americans. That should suffice.


I just find it strange that you lefties don't want anyone to know your heritage so you must be ashamed. Never said you were not Americans!

You are going in the wrong direction as usual!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ever notice that the people who tell you to calm down are the ones who got you mad in the first place?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I just find it strange that you lefties don't want anyone to know your heritage so you must be ashamed. Never said you were not Americans!
> 
> You are going in the wrong direction as usual!


Why would we be ashamed? Once again it's none of your business!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> It would be more interesting to know why the IRS did a preemptive apology on a Friday afternoon. Humm, a diversion from Benghazi? Well that certainly backfired on them.
> 
> Wasn't using the IRS against enemies one of charges against Nixon? I am sure it was. Obamagate has a nice ring to it


You are correct. One of the impeachment charges against Nixon was his use of the IRS for political purposes. I do see a similarity.

The gov't always lets things happen/slip on a Friday. Why should an apology be any different?

I find it interesting that no liberal or Democratic groups were targeted. Only conservative groups, those groups that focused on government spending, debt, taxes, pro constitution, etc. were targeted.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Time will tell. In the mean time, I'm sure the right will continue trying to stir things up.


The right and independents do stir it up because the left is constantly hiding everything, hoping the low information voters and kool-aid drinkers will not notice. (Which, of course, they don't.)


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Looks like the right is going into panic mood. They are grasping at air and pretty soon they won't even have that. What will they do then?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Looks like the right is going into panic mood. They are grasping at air and pretty soon they won't even have that. What will they do then?


Find something else to nit pick?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yeah right. Did you ever stop to think that it is none of your business?
> A person shouldn't have to define themselves by color to you or anybody else. We are all proud of our heritage too, but we don't wear it on our sleeves. We are Americans. That should suffice.


It does not suffice. We would not need to be African American, Native American, Irish American, Polish American, Italian American, etc. We are labeling ourselves as everything but American first. We, as a country, are wearing our heritage on our sleeves by labeling ourselves in such a manner. It's time for this political correctness to be put to rest and reunite the country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It does not suffice. We would not need to be African American, Native American, Irish American, Polish American, Italian American, etc. We are labeling ourselves as everything but American first. We, as a country, are wearing our heritage on our sleeves by labeling ourselves in such a manner. It's time for this political correctness to be put to rest and reunite the country.


I am an American born and raised. That will suffice. Read my post again. You just said the same thing I did in so many words.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
It would be more interesting to know why the IRS did a preemptive apology on a Friday afternoon. Humm, a diversion from Benghazi? Well that certainly backfired on them.

Wasn't using the IRS against enemies one of charges against Nixon? I am sure it was. Obamagate has a nice ring to it


You are correct. One of the impeachment charges against Nixon was his use of the IRS for political purposes. I do see a similarity.

The gov't always lets things happen/slip on a Friday. Why should an apology be any different?

I find it interesting that no liberal or Democratic groups were targeted. Only conservative groups, those groups that focused on government spending, debt, taxes, pro constitution, etc. were targeted.

soloweygirl




You two and Janie are the best entertainment I have had all day. You are spinning around so fast you don't know which end is up. Janie did you get any sleep last night after the tirade you went on late into the wee hours? Get some rest. 
Are you eating something funny that is growing out in that backyard of your's off and sharing it with solowey? Whatever it is I think it might be toxic. It sure messes up rational thought process for you though doesn't it 'cause you two are making no sense at all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They have not found the link, they did not say there isn't one.


Of course--they haven't had a chance yet to thoroughly search their comic book archive.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It does not suffice. We would not need to be African American, Native American, Irish American, Polish American, Italian American, etc. We are labeling ourselves as everything but American first. We, as a country, are wearing our heritage on our sleeves by labeling ourselves in such a manner. It's time for this political correctness to be put to rest and reunite the country.


I am an American born and raised. That will suffice. Read my post again. You just said the same thing I did in so many words.
Janeway should learn from this.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Here's an interesting link concerning George Bush using the IRS to go after the NAACP in 2004. What do you fair minded folks on the right think about that? You better be very careful about what you say because you don't really know who you may be talking to now do you?

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/1/irs_investigating_naacp_for_criticizing_bush - 58k -


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

The GOP says it wants to be more inclusive and look what the Heritage Foundation put out last week concerning our Latino brothers and sisters and their inability to assimilate. Oh yes I can see so clearly how they want to embrace minorities and they consider our black brothers and sisters even further down the rung of their intelligence/assimilate ladder than Latinos. Where does that leave us Patty? Now they are trying to do the backaway boogie from that big SNAFU but guess what folks we have had your number for a long time now. Feet don't fail me now. Cheeky is doing her happy dance to some old Motown tunes! Can you feel the beat! And now let's do a little Salsa! Oh feet you are moving just fine now swing those hips and put your hands in the air! Cheeky is happy now! Come on and dance with me Patty!

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/co-author-of-controversial-heritage-foundation-report-resigns/ - - Cached - Similar pages
2 days ago ... David Hills/The Heritage Foundation ABC News' Sarah Parnass and ... The report said the increase in Hispanic students choosing to go on to ...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm dancing!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I'm dancing!


Yes, you go girl!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Kermit Grosnell found guilty on 4 counts of first degree murder. There is still one more verdict to come in on the woman who died from overdose of painkillers.
Now that's something to dance about too!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Theories? It's those who have been prevented from telling their stories that are coming out now. If they were unwillingly made pawns by the obama regime's attempt to cover up the truth it's not theory on their part. I always thought that your side loved whistle blowers.
> 
> The absolute disgrace belongs to obama and his cronies.


What is the truth? None of you say anything. It's all rumors and innuendo. Your just like your party you are desperate and you know it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Kermit Grosnell found guilty on 4 counts of first degree murder. There is still one more verdict to come in on the woman who died from overdose of painkillers.
> Now that's something to dance about too!


Yes, justice has been served! Thanks for the update, Patty.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here's an interesting link concerning George Bush using the IRS to go after the NAACP in 2004. What do you fair minded folks on the right think about that? You better be very careful about what you say because you don't really know who you may be talking to now do you?
> 
> http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/1/irs_investigating_naacp_for_criticizing_bush - 58k -


All was said was that three members of Congress were involved in the complaint. No apology was given, and obviously not needed was ever done by the IRS or Bush. So I conclude that there was no merit to their assertions.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bush has a lot to apologize for.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It does not suffice. We would not need to be African American, Native American, Irish American, Polish American, Italian American, etc. We are labeling ourselves as everything but American first. We, as a country, are wearing our heritage on our sleeves by labeling ourselves in such a manner. It's time for this political correctness to be put to rest and reunite the country.


But some people want and like to be know as Irish, Polish, etc., American. It's their right. If someone just wants to be American, then be American. I don't know why this is even an issue.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The GOP says it wants to be more inclusive and look what the Heritage Foundation put out last week concerning our Latino brothers and sisters and their inability to assimilate. Oh yes I can see so clearly how they want to embrace minorities and they consider our black brothers and sisters even further down the rung of their intelligence/assimilate ladder than Latinos. Where does that leave us Patty? Now they are trying to do the backaway boogie from that big SNAFU but guess what folks we have had your number for a long time now. Feet don't fail me now. Cheeky is doing her happy dance to some old Motown tunes! Can you feel the beat! And now let's do a little Salsa! Oh feet you are moving just fine now swing those hips and put your hands in the air! Cheeky is happy now! Come on and dance with me Patty!
> 
> http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/05/co-author-of-controversial-heritage-foundation-report-resigns/ - - Cached - Similar pages
> 2 days ago ... David Hills/The Heritage Foundation ABC News' Sarah Parnass and ... The report said the increase in Hispanic students choosing to go on to ...


I read this too. How very condescending and demeaning.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Kermit Grosnell found guilty on 4 counts of first degree murder. There is still one more verdict to come in on the woman who died from overdose of painkillers.
> Now that's something to dance about too!


It is!!! I think I'll swing dance this time.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> I just find it strange that you lefties don't want anyone to know your heritage so you must be ashamed. Never said you were not Americans!
> 
> You are going in the wrong direction as usual!


I find it strange that you seem to be fixated on this.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I find it strange that you seem to be fixated on this.


Then why reply to it?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Then why reply to it?


Felt like it...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I find it strange that you seem to be fixated on this.


Yes, gay sex and race are two of Janeway's hobbyhorses.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

So joey if you can't get Obama out of office and you can't discredit Clinton is the next step for the right to start a civil war? This is incendiary speech and probably something you should not have posted on KP unless you can explain it. You tried to brush it off by saying it was just something you found interesting but I'm sure you are smart enough to know anyone on KP could read it. Maybe you can tell us what you find interesting about it and why you did put it out here. Maybe this is why the U.S. government is buying up all the ammo so it won't fall into the hands of internal terrorists such as you and your good Christian folks on the right. If you believe this article has validity you have a lot more in common with Muslim terrorists who live in a theocracy and have sharia law than you do with me. I consider you a well educated and well spoken woman so please explain what this means to you and why anyone on the left should not find it a little disturbing. Do we need to be afriad of you? Are you preparing for this war? I don't take anyone suggesting Civil War in my country lightly. Please off2knit don't reply for joey she can do it herself.

Interesting Article: 
Obama Has Won! Is Civil War Inevitable?
Makes one think.

http://clashdaily.com/2013/05/obama-has-won-is-civil-war-inevitable/


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So joey if you can't get Obama out of office and you can't discredit Clinton is the next step for the right to start a civil war? This is incendiary speech and probably something you should not have posted on KP unless you can explain it. You tried to brush it off by saying it was just something you found interesting but I'm sure you are smart enough to know anyone on KP could read it. Maybe you can tell us what you find interesting about it and why you did put it out here. Maybe this is why the U.S. government is buying up all the ammo so it won't fall into the hands of internal terrorists such as you and your good Christian folks on the right. If you believe this article has validity you have a lot more in common with Muslim terrorists who live in a theocracy and have sharia law than you do with me. I consider you a well educated and well spoken woman so please explain what this means to you and why anyone on the left should not find it a little disturbing. Do we need to be afriad of you? Are you preparing for this war? I don't take anyone suggesting Civil War in my country lightly. Please off2knit don't reply for joey she can do it herself.
> 
> Interesting Article:
> Obama Has Won! Is Civil War Inevitable?
> ...


Wow, what a sad article. So much gibberish.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> All was said was that three members of Congress were involved in the complaint. No apology was given, and obviously not needed was ever done by the IRS or Bush. So I conclude that there was no merit to their assertions.


The reason the IRS was called off doing this is because yes the IRS was in fact investigating the NAACP among other groups Bush didn't like. Spinning is one thing but now you can't even read. I guess it's true what they say about the GOP, if you've got nothing then make something up. Nothing original coming out of your brain.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Wow, what a sad article. So much gibberish.


Yes, and yet joey felt it necessary to post it out here. I'll wait and let her explain herself if she can.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The reason the IRS was called off doing this is because yes the IRS was in fact investigating the NAACP among other groups Bush didn't like. Spinning is one thing but now you can't even read. I guess it's true what they say about the GOP, if you've got nothing then make something up. Nothing original coming out of your brain.


I think you are the one with a very small spinning brain. Where was the apology that proves that there was wrong doing? Was the IRS asking for donor lists? no

But I have a Great Wheel in my hallway if you want to borrow it, maybe spinning with that antique your brain cells will grow.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky, do you think you could do us all the great favor of using the "quote reply" option instead of your current confusing method of quoting what you want to respond to? There wouldn't be the "quote reply" option if it didn't serve a useful purpose. Oh, I bet you're mucking around with quotations just to show how impressively creative you are. NOT. :thumbdown:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So joey if you can't get Obama out of office and you can't discredit Clinton is the next step for the right to start a civil war? This is incendiary speech and probably something you should not have posted on KP unless you can explain it. You tried to brush it off by saying it was just something you found interesting but I'm sure you are smart enough to know anyone on KP could read it. Maybe you can tell us what you find interesting about it and why you did put it out here. Maybe this is why the U.S. government is buying up all the ammo so it won't fall into the hands of internal terrorists such as you and your good Christian folks on the right. If you believe this article has validity you have a lot more in common with Muslim terrorists who live in a theocracy and have sharia law than you do with me. I consider you a well educated and well spoken woman so please explain what this means to you and why anyone on the left should not find it a little disturbing. Do we need to be afriad of you? Are you preparing for this war? I don't take anyone suggesting Civil War in my country lightly. Please off2knit don't reply for joey she can do it herself.
> 
> Interesting Article:
> Obama Has Won! Is Civil War Inevitable?
> ...


Absolute gibberish, but the man does make one salient point:

If politics is a game of Chess, then liberals are Bobby Fischer, and conservatives are The Three Stooges. In a cunning game of patience and forethought, conservatives just cant compete.

Truer words never spoken.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolute gibberish, but the man does make one salient point:
> 
> If politics is a game of Chess, then liberals are Bobby Fischer, and conservatives are The Three Stooges. In a cunning game of patience and forethought, conservatives just cant compete.
> 
> Truer words never spoken.


 I can think of three stooges on the right posting out here right now, Susan. I like to think of them as a barrel of monkeys. The Three Stooges at least had some creativity and entertainment value. The right, not so much and no sense of humor ever.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

[quote Stitch Designer]"This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder."
[end quote/]

Oh, so sorry to disappoint you, Stitch Designer, We posted this and celebrated this 2 hours ago.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I think you are the one with a very small spinning brain. Where was the apology that proves that there was wrong doing? Was the IRS asking for donor lists? no
> 
> But I have a Great Wheel in my hallway if you want to borrow it, maybe spinning with that antique your brain cells will grow.


Once again you have proved how out2lunch you are. Your reply doesn't even make sense. Yes they were investigated by the IRS and the NAACP finally got a letter in 2006 that the audit was resolved. The audit was purely political and a waste of time and money. The NAACP did not get an apology from the IRS as I don't believe that is their function but no wrong doing was found on the part of the NAACP. Now shoo off and go take a ride on your wheel or your broom or whatever it is you ride on. You are too funny. Almost as amusing as Jane when she goes off.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> [quote Stitch Designer]"This is going to make the liberals go ape: Gosnell has been convicted on 3 counts of murder."
> [end quote/]
> 
> Oh, so sorry to disappoint you, Stitch Designer, We posted this and celebrated this 2 hours ago.


She's a day late a a dollar short kind of like Seattle running around KP with her junior editor badge on. Both very amusing.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If we've learned anything from the horror of the Gosnell clinic, we should be proactive in getting clinics inspected and regulated. Would the republicans be in favor of this or do they still stand by their mantra of "deregulation."


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Of course clinics of any kind should be inspected and regulated. 
I would have assumed clinics are inspected regularly by health officials. 

Just like restaurant inspections they should be pop in inspections.

Also laws need to enforced about when abortions can be performed. Clinics should not be allowed to refer clients to clinics that knowing don't follow the law.

Are ultrasounds done before an abortion to determine the number of weeks? Or is the word of the mother taken as to how far along she is.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Of course clinics of any kind should be inspected and regulated.
> I would have assumed clinics are inspected regularly by health officials.
> 
> Just like restaurant inspections they should be pop in inspections.
> ...


Call Planned Parenthood and ask.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Of course clinics of any kind should be inspected and regulated.
> I would have assumed clinics are inspected regularly by health officials.
> 
> Just like restaurant inspections they should be pop in inspections.
> ...


I think in Grosnell's case , the only thing done before an abortion was the exchange of money.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I don't know anything about abortions. I believe we have to inspect and regulate the clinics, that's for sure. There are problems with the agencies doing government inspections because these agencies are operating on very small budgets due to deep cuts made by sequestration and before that by Congress trying to control spending. Robert Reich wrote an excellent piece that appeared in our Sunday paper about how programs and agencies that can't be thwarted by being repealed are being defunded so they can't operate effectively. I'll check his blog to see if I can find the column.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Call Planned Parenthood and ask.


That was an honest question, I was just wondering.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The Hollowing Out of Government
SATURDAY, MAY 4, 2013, Robert Reich
The West, Texas chemical and fertilizer plant where at least 15 were killed and more than 200 injured a few weeks ago hadnt been fully inspected by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration since 1985. (A partial inspection in 2011 had resulted in $5,250 in fines.)

OSHA and its state partners have a total of 2,200 inspectors charged with ensuring the safety of over more than 8 million workplaces employing 130 million workers. That comes to about one inspector for every 59,000 American workers.

Theres no way it can do its job with so few resources, but OSHA has been systematically hollowed out for the years under Republican administrations and congresses that have despised the agency since its inception.

In effect, much of our nations worker safety laws and rules have been quietly repealed because there arent enough inspectors to enforce them.

Thats been the Republican strategy in general: When they cant directly repeal laws they dont like, they repeal them indirectly by hollowing them out  denying funds to fully implement them, and reducing funds to enforce them.

Consider taxes. Republicans have been unable to round up enough votes to cut taxes on big corporations and the wealthy as much as theyd like, so what do they do? Theyre hollowing out the IRS. As they cut its enforcement budget  presto!  tax collections decline.

Despite an increasing number of billionaires and multi-millionaires using every tax dodge imaginable  laundering their money through phantom corporations and tax havens (Remember Mitts tax returns?)  the IRSs budget has been cut by 17 percent since 2002, adjusted for inflation.

To manage the $594.5 million in additional cuts required by the sequester, the agency has announced it will furlough each of its more than 89,000 employees for at least five days this year.

This budget stinginess doesnt save the government money. Quite the opposite. Less IRS enforcement means less revenue. Its been estimated that every dollar invested in the IRSs enforcement, modernization and management system reduces the federal budget deficit by $200, and that furloughing 1,800 IRS policemen will cost the Treasury $4.5 billion in lost revenue.

But congressional Republicans arent interested in more revenue. Their goal is to cut taxes on big corporations and the wealthy.

Representative Charles Boustany, the Louisiana Republican who heads the House subcommittee overseeing the IRS, says the IRS sequester cuts should stay in force. He calls for an overhaul of the tax code instead.

In a similar manner, congressional Republicans and their patrons on Wall Street who opposed the Dodd-Frank financial reform law have been hollowing out the law by making sure agencies charged with implementing it dont have the funds they need to do the job.

As a result, much of Dodd-Frank  including the so-called Volcker Rule restrictions on the kind of derivatives trading that got the Street into trouble in the first place  is still on the drawing boards.

Perhaps more than any other law, Republicans hate the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). Yet despite holding more than 33 votes to repeal it, they still havent succeeded.

So what do they do? Try to hollow it out. Congressional Republicans have repeatedly denied funding requests to implement Obamacare, leaving Health and Human Services (the agency charged with designing the rules under the Act and enforcing them) so shorthanded it has to delay much of it.

Even before the sequester, the agency was running on the same budget it had before Obamacare was enacted. Now its lost billions more.

A new insurance marketplace specifically for small business, for example, was supposed to be up and running in January. But officials now say it wont be available until 2015 in the 33 states where the federal government will be running insurance markets known as exchanges.

This is a potentially large blow to Obamacares political support. A major selling point for the legislation had been providing affordable health insurance to small businesses and their employees.

Yes, and eroding political support is exactly what congressional Republicans want. They fear that Obamacare, once fully implemented, will be too popular to dismantle. So theyre out to delay it as long as possible while keeping up a drumbeat about its flaws. 

Repealing laws by hollowing them out  failing to fund their enforcement or implementation  works because the public doesnt know its happening. Enactment of a law attracts attention; de-funding it doesnt.

The strategy also seems to bolster the Republican view that government is incompetent. If government cant do what its supposed to do  keep workplaces safe, ensure that the rich pay taxes they owe, protect small investors, implement Obamacare  why give it any additional responsibility?

The public doesnt know the real reason why the government isnt doing its job is its being hollowed out.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Of course clinics of any kind should be inspected and regulated.
> I would have assumed clinics are inspected regularly by health officials.
> 
> Just like restaurant inspections they should be pop in inspections.
> ...


Eight states require ultrasounds before an abortion, the rest don't. Apparently the machine can't see much in the first trimester unless the technician uses an internal probe.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Minnesota Senate just passed Freedom to Marry. Governor Dayton will sign it into law tomorrow afternoon! :thumbup:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Eight states require ultrasounds before an abortion, the rest don't. Apparently the machine can't see much in the first trimester unless the technician uses an internal probe.


Thanks,

http://www.businessinsider.com/kermit-gosnell-clinic-not-inspected-2013-4

This article talks about abortion clinic inspections in PA. Yes it was a republican governor, Tom Ridge, who is prochoice, according to this article did away with the inspections.

Another article 
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/05/09/a-republican-governor-suspended-pa-abortion-clinic-inspections-after-1993/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Thanks,
> 
> http://www.businessinsider.com/kermit-gosnell-clinic-not-inspected-2013-4
> 
> This article talks about abortion clinic inspections in PA. Yes it was a republican governor, Tom Ridge, who is prochoice, according to this article did away with the inspections.


Inspections be damned, I don't understand why not even one person--a "patient", an employee, someone working in an adjacent office--didn't blow the whistle on this guy long ago.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Inspections be damned, I don't understand why not even one person--a "patient", an employee, someone working in an adjacent office--didn't blow the whistle on this guy long ago.


I agree.

I believe one of the articles I posted talked about grievances against the clinic but nothing was done.

The new governor has since changed things and fired some people.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Inspections be damned, I don't understand why not even one person--a "patient", an employee, someone working in an adjacent office--didn't blow the whistle on this guy long ago.


You'd think somebody would have come forward sooner.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> That was an honest question, I was just wondering.


Yes, a physical is given by a doctor and tests done to determine if the woman is pregnant and how many weeks along the pregnancy is. Doctor will do ultrasound if needed. There are different types of abortions performed depending on the woman's health history and the number of weeks pregnant.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Minnesota Senate just passed Freedom to Marry. Governor Dayton will sign it into law tomorrow afternoon! :thumbup:


I am doing the happy dance! It is being said on fb that Michele Bachmann said she would leave Minnesota if the Freedom to Marry law was passed.
Can I help you pack, Michele?
If only this were true.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sad day in Minnesota!!


 Now how would you know that? Oh, that's right, thumper is probably seeing red right now.
The thousands of gay couples here do not agree with you. Marcus Bachmann might as well close his clinic.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am doing the happy dance! It is being said on fb that Michele Bachmann said she would leave Minnesota if the Freedom to Marry law was passed.
> Can I help you pack, Michele?
> If only this were true.


I wish. Maybe she could be persuaded to move to Belize. (Argentina? Tierra del Fuego? An pioneering colony on the moon?)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wish. Maybe she could be persuaded to move to Belize. (Argentina? Tierra del Fuego? An pioneering colony on the moon?)


Iceland might be nice


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is what it is. What do you think?


Quite honestly I think the author is pulling your leg. Something about the way it's written makes it seem a bit off.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now how would you know that? Oh, that's right, thumper is probably seeing red right now.
> The thousands of gay couples here do not agree with you. Marcus Bachmann might as well close his clinic.


I doubt he's that sensible--most likely he's planning to set up shop outside the court houses.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Iceland might be nice


I'd settle for that...vampire bats hibernate when the temperature drops, don't they?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'd settle for that...vampire bats hibernate when the temperature drops, don't they?


I think Iceland sounds like a nice place with lots of yarn and great people. I don't want Michele to ruin it.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, a physical is given by a doctor and tests done to determine if the woman is pregnant and how many weeks along the pregnancy is. Doctor will do ultrasound if needed. There are different types of abortions performed depending on the woman's health history and the number of weeks pregnant.


Thanks, I figured it had to be more than the women's word as to how far along she is.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> That was an honest question, I was just wondering.


And it was an honest answer.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Minnesota Senate just passed Freedom to Marry. Governor Dayton will sign it into law tomorrow afternoon! :thumbup:


Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
So joey if you can't get Obama out of office and you can't discredit Clinton is the next step for the right to start a civil war? This is incendiary speech and probably something you should not have posted on KP unless you can explain it. You tried to brush it off by saying it was just something you found interesting but I'm sure you are smart enough to know anyone on KP could read it. Maybe you can tell us what you find interesting about it and why you did put it out here. Maybe this is why the U.S. government is buying up all the ammo so it won't fall into the hands of internal terrorists such as you and your good Christian folks on the right. If you believe this article has validity you have a lot more in common with Muslim terrorists who live in a theocracy and have sharia law than you do with me. I consider you a well educated and well spoken woman so please explain what this means to you and why anyone on the left should not find it a little disturbing. Do we need to be afriad of you? Are you preparing for this war? I don't take anyone suggesting Civil War in my country lightly. Please off2knit don't reply for joey she can do it herself.

Interesting Article: 
Obama Has Won! Is Civil War Inevitable?
Makes one think.

http://clashdaily.com/2013/05/obama-has-won-is-civil-war-inevitable/

It is what it is. What do you think?

joeysomma

Just as I thought. Joey ran away like all the rest on the right. I told her what I thought of her post and she can't even explain why she posted it out here or what it means. So much for the right. Another stupid hit and run and they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. :thumbdown:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yes, and we will be at the capital tomorrow when it is signed into law! We worked a long time for this and all our hard work has paid off. We finally have equality before the law for all in my state. :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, and we will be at the capital tomorrow when it is signed into law! We worked a long time for this and all our hard work has paid off. We finally have equality before the law for all in my state. :thumbup:


Yay, Minnesota!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think Iceland sounds like a nice place with lots of yarn and great people. I don't want Michele to ruin it.


Andrea - I have been to Iceland and it is far too nice a place for Bachmann. Maybe the Swiss will take her. She wanted to become a citizen there last year, remember.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea - I have been to Iceland and it is far too nice a place for Bachmann. Maybe the Swiss will take her. She wanted to become a citizen there last year, remember.


No, Switzerland is far too nice for Michele.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now how would you know that? Oh, that's right, thumper is probably seeing red right now.
> The thousands of gay couples here do not agree with you. Marcus Bachmann might as well close his clinic.


Marcus will have to find a new segment of the population "to fix".
Yes, I'm sure thumper will be hopping mad. thumper is a rabbit's name isn't it? or in thumper's case rabid is probably more appropriate.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Marcus will have to find a new segment of the population "to fix".
> Yes, I'm sure thumper will be hopping mad. thumper is a rabbit's name isn't it? or in thumper's case rabid is probably more appropriate.


Let them try living in San Francisco. I don't think his business would do very well!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Let them try living in San Francisco. I don't think his business would do very well!


San Francisco! They probably would be afraid to go there and I don't think the good people of San Francisco would want them moving in.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> San Francisco! They probably would be afraid to go there and I don't think the good people of San Francisco would want them moving in.


But wouldn't that be good penance for them?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is what it is. What do you think?


I think you do not take responsibility for your post either by offering a reason or making it a legitimate point of discussion.

What do you think of ideas such as the type postulated on the site you posted?

Could a group that began a civil insurrection in the name of conservative values be termed terrorist? Why or why not?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just as I thought. Joey ran away like all the rest on the right. I told her what I thought of her post and she can't even explain why she posted it out here or what it means. So much for the right. Another stupid hit and run and they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. :thumbdown:


She's probably off deleting computer files and burning incriminating documents. She posted that link yesterday, and on first reading I was appalled. Read it again today and now smell a rat--I believe it was written by someone pretending to be a wacked-out conservative. Best case scenario--those who sign up to carry arms into Washington and parade them around the Capital are going to find themselves on an ammo manufacturer's mailing list. Worst case--someone out there really wants to know who's insane enough to volunteer for such a demonstration.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I think you do not take responsibility for your post either by offering a reason or making it a legitimate point of discussion.
> 
> What do you think of ideas such as the type postulated on the site you posted?
> 
> Could a group that began a civil insurrection in the name of conservative values be termed terrorist? Why or why not?


The T-word--yes, I believe some organizations would consider this a form of terrorism.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> But wouldn't that be good penance for them?


Yes, you have a good point Andrea. They certainly have both hurt a lot of people.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:

Just as I thought. Joey ran away like all the rest on the right. I told her what I thought of her post and she can't even explain why she posted it out here or what it means. So much for the right. Another stupid hit and run and they wonder why nobody takes them seriously. 


She's probably off deleting computer files and burning incriminating documents. She posted that link yesterday, and on first reading I was appalled. Read it again today and now smell a rat--I believe it was written by someone pretending to be a wacked-out conservative. Best case scenario--those who sign up to carry arms into Washington and parade them around the Capital are going to find themselves on an ammo manufacturer's mailing list. Worst case--someone out there really wants to know who's insane enough to volunteer for such a demonstration.

susanmos2000


I wonder if Joey is going to Washington? She wasn't even able to come back out here and defend her post so she sure as hell wouldn't go to Washington. I think the right are a bunch of talkers but nothing more than that. I guess you just have to call their bluff and they run away. So much for their resolve. Maybe, in the last couple of days they are seeing more clearly the lack of leadership on their side and they are getting a little nervous. It's getting harder and harder for them to defend themselves when they don't have their source of talking points.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The T-word--yes, I believe some organizations would consider this a form of terrorism.


I think that joeys post could very well be considered terrorist and she is walking a fine line. Maybe she will post how to make IED's next.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> No, Switzerland is far too nice for Michele.


How about Stockton, CA? Naaaa we do not want to do that to Stockton.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The T-word--yes, I believe some organizations would consider this a form of terrorism.


I think that joeys post could very well be considered terrorist and she is walking a fine line. Maybe she will post how to make IED's next.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you don't like the message attack the messanger. Normal left wing response.
> 
> It will not make any difference what I say, I will still be attacked.
> 
> Have fun being the bully.


Advocating armed revolution against the government is illegal. Volunteering to parade around the Capital with weapons changes it from talk to action.

What are you up to?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you don't like the message attack the messanger. Normal left wing response.
> 
> It will not make any difference what I say, I will still be attacked.
> 
> Have fun being the bully.


That's what I am asking joey, what is the message? I told you how I felt about it in an adult respectful manner and you can't or won't come out here and explain what the post means to you. No one attacked you. You took off and then when you felt "safe" you came back out to the thread and put this reply about attacking the messenger. Just tell me please how do you explain your post? I thought you were the well spoken, well educated expert on all subjects and yet you can't explain your own post? Why? We on the left don't run away and hide when you on the right start acting shall I say a little less than polite. We can all back up what we say. Is the right going into panic mood? I can certainly understand it if that is the case. Your party is faltering badly and I think you may all be feeling rather uneasy. I guess I gave you more credit than you deserve. If you can't defend what you believe than what kind of beliefs are they? Now is your chance joey.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Advocating armed revolution against the government is illegal. Volunteering to parade around the Capital with weapons changes it from talk to action.
> 
> What are you up to?


Susan the right doesn't have the strength of their convictions. I thought joey could explain herself but I was wrong. Maybe she doesn't even understand the seriousness of what she posted. Maybe she can explain herself over on Denim and Pearls where she first posted the article. She may feel safer out there.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> off2knit wrote:
> It would be more interesting to know why the IRS did a preemptive apology on a Friday afternoon. Humm, a diversion from Benghazi? Well that certainly backfired on them.
> 
> Wasn't using the IRS against enemies one of charges against Nixon? I am sure it was. Obamagate has a nice ring to it
> ...


You are the one who is smoking something as you are always so very hateful with what you think are "cute" remarks! Grow-up!

I don't spin but you are in such whirlwind constantly that you stir up dirt! You have been poisoned by the Democratic Party for so long that you would not know the truth if someone hit you with the truth!

I slept quite well, my dear but it appears that you did not as you certainly are not the sharpest knife in the drawer today!

Soloweygirl is a very wonderful person which you will never achieve in your lifetime. Off2knit is our Supreme empress so she is our leader!

You must be the one growing things in the back yard, just ask Peace as she said she grows herbs to help ladies in trouble (meaning pregnant) to make them abort the fetus!

You lefties are quite the pack of women that have a lot of weird thinking so guess it has been the Democratic Party's fault!

Glad I'm on the right side of everything!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan the right doesn't have the strength of their convictions. I thought joey could explain herself but I was wrong. Maybe she doesn't even understand the seriousness of what she posted. Maybe she can explain herself over on Denim and Pearls where she first posted the article. She may feel safer out there.


Why don't you explain yourself as you "never" explain anything as you only reply with ugly remarks.

Joey is safe here but the rest of you??????


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Susan the right doesn't have the strength of their convictions.


No--thank God! But they're even more foolish than I thought, and apparently the failure of the Benghazi coup has driven some of them completely around the bend. This foolhardy and dangerous march on Washington with loaded weapons is proof of that, and the cherry on the insanity sundae is folks like Joeysmama peddling it far and wide.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's what I am asking joey, what is the message? I told you how I felt about it in an adult respectful manner and you can't or won't come out here and explain what the post means to you. No one attacked you. You took off and then when you felt "safe" you came back out to the thread and put this reply about attacking the messenger. Just tell me please how do you explain your post? I thought you were the well spoken, well educated expert on all subjects and yet you can't explain your own post? Why? We on the left don't run away and hide when you on the right start acting shall I say a little less than polite. We can all back up what we say. Is the right going into panic mood? I can certainly understand it if that is the case. Your party is faltering badly and I think you may all be feeling rather uneasy. I guess I gave you more credit than you deserve. If you can't defend what you believe than what kind of beliefs are they? Now is your chance joey.


Your Avatar certainly fits your personality!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No--thank God! But they're even more foolish than I thought, and apparently the failure of the Benghazi coup has driven some of them completely around the bend. This foolhardy and dangerous march on Washington with loaded weapons is proof of that, and the cherry on the insanity sundae is folks like Joeysmama peddling it far and wide.


Need a cookie?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you don't like the message attack the messanger. Normal left wing response.
> 
> It will not make any difference what I say, I will still be attacked.
> 
> Have fun being the bully.


Joey, they are just spinning as usual so ignore them!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Need a cookie?


Hmm, have you looked at Joey's link, Janeway? You might find it "interesting" (her carefully worded analysis).


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> She's probably off deleting computer files and burning incriminating documents. She posted that link yesterday, and on first reading I was appalled. Read it again today and now smell a rat--I believe it was written by someone pretending to be a wacked-out conservative. Best case scenario--those who sign up to carry arms into Washington and parade them around the Capital are going to find themselves on an ammo manufacturer's mailing list. Worst case--someone out there really wants to know who's insane enough to volunteer for such a demonstration.


No she is not doing any of the wild imagination you lefties are spinning around.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Your Avatar certainly fits your personality!


What is it about my avatar that you want to say, Janie? How does it fit my personality?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> You are the one who is smoking something as you are always so very hateful with what you think are "cute" remarks! Grow-up!
> 
> I don't spin but you are in such whirlwind constantly that you stir up dirt! You have been poisoned by the Democratic Party for so long that you would not know the truth if someone hit you with the truth!
> 
> ...


Janeway, Herbs are used for lots of feminine issues: menopause, fertility, depression, painful menses, regulating menses, and yes bringing on a menses. Being on the right does not mean you are right.

I respect and support a woman's right to control her body. You and your "righties" want to control women and their very personal and private choices all in the name of your religion. One could call your beliefs a conservative christian jihad on women's bodies.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No she is not doing any of the wild imagination you lefties are spinning around.


What are you drinking, smoking or kind of pills are you using tonight Janie? Did Joey and offher rocker send you out her to act silly or is this all your doing like you did last night? Do I have to call Patty out here to get you to leave and go to bed?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No she is not doing any of the wild imagination you lefties are spinning around.


What are you drinking, smoking or kind of pills are you using tonight Janie? Did Joey and offher rocker send you out her to act silly or is this all your doing like you did last night? Do I have to call Patty out here to get you to leave and go to bed?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yay, Minnesota!
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Yes, maybe next people can marry their pets which is just as stupid!

If you want baby chicks, then you must have a Rooster and a Hen! Not two Roosters or two hens, get real.

If they "love" each other, then live together but marriage is between a man and a woman!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Now how would you know that? Oh, that's right, thumper is probably seeing red right now.
> The thousands of gay couples here do not agree with you. Marcus Bachmann might as well close his clinic.


Are you gay? Don't be shy fess up and tell the truth!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Yes, maybe next people can marry their pets which is just as stupid!
> 
> If you want baby chicks, then you must have a Rooster and a Hen! Not two Roosters or two hens, get real.
> 
> If they "love" each other, then live together but marriage is between a man and a woman!


I have an herb for irrationality. i will send some your way.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am doing the happy dance! It is being said on fb that Michele Bachmann said she would leave Minnesota if the Freedom to Marry law was passed.
> Can I help you pack, Michele?
> If only this were true.


No, but I'll help you pack to leave KP! That would be a great day! Yea!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolute gibberish, but the man does make one salient point:
> 
> If politics is a game of Chess, then liberals are Bobby Fischer, and conservatives are The Three Stooges. In a cunning game of patience and forethought, conservatives just cant compete.
> 
> Truer words never spoken.


Well, I wish he had not said that part really.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, and we will be at the capital tomorrow when it is signed into law! We worked a long time for this and all our hard work has paid off. We finally have equality before the law for all in my state. :thumbup:


Ah, you are gay! I knew it, I knew it, thanks for finally admitting the facts!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Minnesota Senate just passed Freedom to Marry. Governor Dayton will sign it into law tomorrow afternoon! :thumbup:


HOORAY!!!!!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am doing the happy dance! It is being said on fb that Michele Bachmann said she would leave Minnesota if the Freedom to Marry law was passed.
> Can I help you pack, Michele?
> If only this were true.


No, there will now be too much work for her husband - what with changing so many people!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Well, I wish he had not said that part really.


Well, the rest of the article balances it out--armed rebellion against the US government, and an invitation to join a civilian brigade of 9000 men to march around the Capital buildings with loaded weapons. Absolutely bizarre.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, the rest of the article balances it out--armed rebellion against the US, and an invitation to join a civilian brigade of 9000 men to march around the Capital buildings with loaded weapons. Absolutely bizarre.


i would pay to watch them do that because that would ensure their idiocy!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> i would pay to watch them do that because that would ensure their idiocy!!!


So would I! Apparently the organizers have still have 6500 slots to fill--guess most people know better, but not the 2500 boneheads who agreed to go.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, maybe next people can marry their pets which is just as stupid!
> 
> If you want baby chicks, then you must have a Rooster and a Hen! Not two Roosters or two hens, get real.
> 
> If they "love" each other, then live together but marriage is between a man and a woman!


How very homophobic of you. Lots of gay couples raise children together. You should be happy that there are more couples who will take care of all of the unwanted children. gay women can get inseminated easily these days.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Are you gay? Don't be shy fess up and tell the truth!


Janeway, why is that and peoples' color so important to you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, but I'll help you pack to leave KP! That would be a great day! Yea!


Aint gonna happen Janey. You are acting the horses arse part again tonite. I am embarassed for you. Go to bed now, Janey.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I am embarrassed for alot of people tonight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> i would pay to watch them do that because that would ensure their idiocy!!!


You got that right, GW. That would be considered a terroristic threat against the President and the Capitol. not to mention the people of Washington DC. What a bunch of fools. The one thing that they don't think about is that the real Americans (army, air force, marines, navy) have much better weapons to scare them off with. Silly boys. tsk tsk


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What are you drinking, smoking or kind of pills are you using tonight Janie? Did Joey and offher rocker send you out her to act silly or is this all your doing like you did last night? Do I have to call Patty out here to get you to leave and go to bed?


No, Patty has changed her clothing into an Orkin Man ready to Kill!

The person who stirs the pot of dung must lick the spoon, so here's your spoon! Now lick!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll: :roll:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Now they are calling the president a mulatto. The term mulatto is tied back to the days of slavery. Native Americans and Africans mated and brought forth the term Mulatto over 300 years ago.
Today, they are called biracial. As Obamas mother was white and his father as Kenyan. His skin is black, so therefore he is called a black man with mixed blood.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, Patty has changed her clothing into an Orkin Man ready to Kill!
> 
> The person who stirs the pot of dung must lick the spoon, so here's your spoon! Now lick!
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll: :roll:


That's disgusting. Stop being so mellodramatic. You look like a fool


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I have an herb for irrationality. i will send some your way.


No thanks, I do not need any of your "wild" herbs!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's disgusting.


Oh, there is a spoon for you too Bratty! Now lick!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Aint gonna happen Janey. You are acting the horses arse part again tonite. I am embarassed for you. Go to bed now, Janey.


You must lick the spoon as you keep stirring the pot of dung!

I'm not sleepy, thanks, but you have my permission to retire as I know you are tired from pot stirring and licking the spoon!
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She's a day late a a dollar short kind of like Seattle running around KP with her junior editor badge on. Both very amusing.


No, that's not a junior editor's badge. That's a full-fledged general's badge and I see you still haven't figured out how to use the "quote reply" option when posting.

This supposed liberal did a happy dance on hearing that Gosnell was convicted of 3 counts of first degree murder. It makes me wonder if abortionists have any obligation to care for a live infant when they botch a late-term abortion, as Gosnell seems to have done. He wasn't supposed to end up with a live infant if he was attempting to kill the fetus.

It also makes me wonder why late-term abortions are legal if the fetus is viable. I can understand they might have to be done to if the health of the mother or the fetus is threatened but otherwise I don't think it should be done by an abortionist who probably doesn't have any kind of system for providing emotional support, etc., to the mother. Since infants are so adoptable, why not replace voluntary late-term abortion with a combination of induced labor and letting the mother sign away her parental rights so the infant can be adopted. The father could be assumed to have no parental rights in that kind of process so there wouldn't have to be any fuss about him also giving up his parental rights. That doesn't sound any worse than a late-term abortion which I assume is pretty unpleasant for the woman no matter how much she wants it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> You must lick the spoon as you keep stirring the pot of dung!
> 
> I'm not sleepy, thanks, but you have my permission to retire as I know you are tired from pot stirring and licking the spoon!
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


You are a very disgusting person. Is this an old family recipe for you, Jane?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Great day for Minnesota. Let's keep the ball rolling until gays are free to marry in every state :!: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Ah, you are gay! I knew it, I knew it, thanks for finally admitting the facts!


Be very careful, Janeway. People get booted form KP for comments like that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Great day for Minnesota. Let's keep the ball rolling until gays are free to marry in every state :!: :thumbup:


38 states to go!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> 38 states to go!


That's too many, but at least the issue of freedom to marry is out there, and people who are gay have one more state they can get married in.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Oh, good news! Gosnell might get the death penalty. I sure hope he does, tunabout being fair play and all that.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Poor Karen, Obama does have the power to allocate money in time of crisis. So if he cared, he would have written an executive order (similar to the one he did in December for the Federal Pay Raises) and provided money. Or ordered the fund from another department. But he chose not too. Hilary chose not to fight for her embassies. They chose to ignore the CIA warnings. They chose to ignore the pleas for more security. They chose not to act and send a rapid response team. They chose to let those men die, without lifting a finger, ignoring phone calls, going to bed while men were under attack...............those were their choices.
> 
> At least Hilary still has a child to celebrate Mother's Day with, but that can not be said for the mothers of the murdered men in Benghazi.


Yes, so sad for the families who lost their loved ones- not just in Benghazi but in protecting our country. We must not allow their loss to be forgotten.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> For those who have stated there is no voter fraud; The reason you have not heard much about it is that it takes years to prove, to go through the court system. This case took about 5 years. If the fraud had not been committed Obama would not have been on the primary ballot in Indiana. And Hillary Clinton may have been our President.
> 
> This is only one instance. But when dead people vote, there has to be voter fraud.
> 
> http://www.wnd.com/2013/04/jury-fraud-put-obama-on-08-ballot/


So correct...but when the truth is uncovered it will likely be too late for any correction.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now we all understand.



Janeway said:


> Yes, maybe next people can marry their pets which is just as stupid!
> 
> If you want baby chicks, then you must have a Rooster and a Hen! Not two Roosters or two hens, get real.
> 
> If they "love" each other, then live together but marriage is between a man and a woman!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You really are strange to ask.



Janeway said:


> Are you gay? Don't be shy fess up and tell the truth!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't waste it. It will disappear in a puff of smoke.



peacegoddess said:


> I have an herb for irrationality. i will send some your way.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't hold your breath.



Janeway said:


> No, but I'll help you pack to leave KP! That would be a great day! Yea!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Jane, you are delusional, as always. Think of it like this, liberals will protest against the burning cross although they are not black.....just because it is wrong and we wish to support all as equals. I know it's too complicated for you to fathom.

Gay rights are supported by many heterosexuals....for the same reason.



Janeway said:


> Ah, you are gay! I knew it, I knew it, thanks for finally admitting the facts!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd like to see them try marching around the Capital buildings with arms. I think it would get peaceful fast when the troups march in. Film at 11:00.



susanmos2000 said:


> Well, the rest of the article balances it out--armed rebellion against the US government, and an invitation to join a civilian brigade of 9000 men to march around the Capital buildings with loaded weapons. Absolutely bizarre.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I imagine the 2500 boneheads have managed to get themselves on the 'no fly list.' At least I hope so.



susanmos2000 said:


> So would I! Apparently the organizers have still have 6500 slots to fill--guess most people know better, but not the 2500 boneheads who agreed to go.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bratty Patty, I love the new avatar.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please stop your inane threats to Patty. They do her no harm.....and you no good.



Janeway said:


> No, Patty has changed her clothing into an Orkin Man ready to Kill!
> 
> The person who stirs the pot of dung must lick the spoon, so here's your spoon! Now lick!
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sad.



Janeway said:


> Oh, there is a spoon for you too Bratty! Now lick!


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Great day for Minnesota. Let's keep the ball rolling until gays are free to marry in every state :!: :thumbup:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow the lefties were nasty last night. But that is to be expected, it is their MO. 

But their rantings are just diversions from the real Obama problems: Benghazi, IRS, and phone tapping reporters. 

So lefties, hope you enjoyed your dancing last night, accusing people of illegal drug use, and general nastiness. The day is still young, and more 'gates' are yet to be opened


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow the lefties were nasty last night. But that is to be expected, it is their MO.
> 
> But their rantings are just diversions from the real Obama problems: Benghazi, IRS, and phone tapping reporters.
> 
> So lefties, hope you enjoyed your dancing last night, accusing people of illegal drug use, and general nastiness. The day is still young, and more 'gates' are yet to be opened


Possibly--but the conservatives have bankrupted themselves by putting all their money on the losing horse named Benghazi. I commented a few days ago that, rights and wrongs aside, it was dull number and unlikely to grab the attention of the American voting public. You righties vehemently denied it--well, how does it compare to the IRS business we're hearing about now? THAT would have been a winning ticket as everyone hates the IRS anyway--too too bad the GOP has already stretched its credibility to the point where most folks have tuned them out.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

I have been out of town for several days and have come back to SOSDD. Still at it duh!!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Jane, you are delusional, as always. Think of it like this, liberals will protest against the burning cross although they are not black.....just because it is wrong and we wish to support all as equals. I know it's too complicated for you to fathom.
> 
> Gay rights are supported by many heterosexuals....for the same reason.


My basic reason for supporting gay marriage is that the more people who believe they are part of our legitimate society, the more stability that society will have. "Outsiders" can easily feel they can attack and damage society, not a very desirable stance.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow the lefties were nasty last night. But that is to be expected, it is their MO.
> 
> But their rantings are just diversions from the real Obama problems: Benghazi, IRS, and phone tapping reporters.
> 
> So lefties, hope you enjoyed your dancing last night, accusing people of illegal drug use, and general nastiness. The day is still young, and more 'gates' are yet to be opened


The only nastiness here was by Janeway.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Now the AP is going after Obama and getting the phone records of their reporters. Sean Smith's mother is slamming Obama and Hilary. And the IRS went after political enemies in other locations too other than Cincinnati (2 in California and one in DC). 

Love the transparency.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow the lefties were nasty last night. But that is to be expected, it is their MO.
> 
> But their rantings are just diversions from the real Obama problems: Benghazi, IRS, and phone tapping reporters.
> 
> So lefties, hope you enjoyed your dancing last night, accusing people of illegal drug use, and general nastiness. The day is still young, and more 'gates' are yet to be opened


That's what you live for.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Now the AP is going after Obama and getting the phone records of their reporters. Sean Smith's mother is slamming Obama and Hilary. And the IRS went after political enemies in other locations too other than Cincinnati (2 in California and one in DC).
> 
> Love the transparency.


Well shame on the IRS. some of them will be losing their jobs. 
They were wrong. But you can't blame Obama for that.
The AP is going after the phone records, not Obama. Can youu ever post anything that has some merit or correctness in it?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And your point is?


That the little man needs to go. He and his corrupt administration.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That the little man needs to go. He and his corrupt administration.


The"little " man is not responsible for anything listed above.
Listen to the news once in a while. You may learn something.
You may try another source besides Fox Noise.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> The"little " man is not responsible for anything listed above.
> Listen to the news once in a while. You may learn something.


And you know this how? We are just beginning the investigations. You should listen youself sometime rather than shooting your mouth off all the time.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That the little man needs to go. He and his corrupt administration.


You mean the President of the United States? How irreverant of you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And you know this how? We are just beginning the investigations. You should listen youself sometime rather than shooting your mouth off all the time.


I do listen and listen objectively. And as far as shooting my mouth off, you hold the crown for that. You hold the title for the most foul mouth around here. You should be very proud of yourself, thumper.
"We are just beginning the investigations? Are you on some investigative team ?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

It was the DOJ(Department of Justice) that went after the AP phone records.
News on that broke last night!

I know from Fox, but AP wrote the story.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/13/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records/

should be an interesting White House briefing.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> It was the DOJ(Department of Justice) that went after the AP phone records.
> News on that broke last night!
> 
> should be an interesting White House briefing.


Yes, I watched that. Thanks for posting something that is true.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> It was the DOJ(Department of Justice) that went after the AP phone records.
> News on that broke last night!
> 
> I know from Fox, but AP wrote the story.
> ...


However I won't check your source for this channel leads the world in half news and exagerated opinions.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well shame on the IRS. some of them will be losing their jobs.
> They were wrong. But you can't blame Obama for that.
> The DOJ is going after the phone records, not Obama. Can youu ever post anything that has some merit or correctness in it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Thanks for correcting my mistake siNJ


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You mean the President of the United States? How irreverant of you.


Not in the least. Treating him with irreverance means that he is generally taken seriously. I've never taken him seriously and if you've been reading and listening to the news lately you'd find that fewer and fewer of his previous supporters are taking him seriously.

Well, they are beginning to take his incompetence to lead seriously and the corruption of his administration seriously. There is hope for our country yet and, with the illegal gathering of the AP phone logs, the media is beginning to turn against him, too.

The truth eventually does come out. However, I'm sure that the truth has begun surfacing sooner than he and his cronies wanted it to.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Interesting article from NPR about coverage for young pregnant women seems their still could be gaps into what is covered and not.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/05/13/183688243/even-after-overhaul-gaps-in-coverage-for-young-pregnant-women
The federal health care overhaul makes some notable improvements in insurance coverage for young adults.

They can now stay on their parents' health plans until they turn 26. Next year they can also look for subsidized coverage on the state-based insurance marketplaces, also called exchanges. And they may qualify for Medicaid, if their income are less than 138 percent of the federal poverty level ($15,856 in 2013).

So far, so good.

But young women who get pregnant may encounter unexpected gaps in coverage. Although the law requires most individual and small group plans to provide maternity and newborn care, large group plans aren't subject to those rules.

Now, that's not a problem for most women because the Pregnancy Discrimination Act of 1978 requires that companies with 15 or more workers that provide health insurance include maternity coverage for employees and their spouses. (Maternity coverage generally refers to prenatal care, labor and delivery, and some postpartum care.)

However, the law doesn't require maternity coverage for dependent children and, according to Dan Priga, who heads the performance audit group at human resources consultant Mercer, roughly 70 percent of large self-funded employers that pay their workers' claims directly don't provide it.

It gets weirder. Under the law, large and small employers alike are required to provide a range of preventive services without any out-of-pocket cost to patients. Among these are preconception and prenatal care, which typically includes tests and screenings to manage risks and help ensure a healthy pregnancy and birth.

The only plans that are excluded are those with grandfathered status under the law.

So a young pregnant woman who's insured as a dependent on her parents' large-group plan might find herself with insurance coverage for office visits and care leading up to childbirth, but no coverage for the actual labor and delivery, where the majority of costs are incurred.

It's too soon to say the extent to which this could be a problem, but patient advocates aren't dismissing it.

"It's certainly possible that employers would choose to cover only the bare minimum," says Adam Sonfield, a policy specialist at the Guttmacher Institute, a reproductive health research and policy organization.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wow the lefties were nasty last night. But that is to be expected, it is their MO.
> 
> But their rantings are just diversions from the real Obama problems: Benghazi, IRS, and phone tapping reporters.
> 
> So lefties, hope you enjoyed your dancing last night, accusing people of illegal drug use, and general nastiness. The day is still young, and more 'gates' are yet to be opened


Yes, they thought they had charge of things until the spoon licking, but it got their goat.

Bratty changed her Avatar into an Orkin man as she does when she would like to exterminate me! Such children as I really enjoyed the evening--good entertainment!

Poor Damemary is sooooo confused about life! Cheeky does not know where to stand anymore as she is soooo out of things---so funny.

Seattle, does not read where the lefties make fun of her but still thinks they are her friends. Don't know why she tries so hard to stay with them as she should leave them quicker than a NY second!

Well, laundry is waiting, sun is shinning so it is a beautiful Lords day for me to enjoy.

Until later my Superior Empress, hugs, Jane.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> The only nastiness here was by Janeway.


It seems as if you cannot read as you posted a picture of a Raid can then deleted it and then ask what can, but my dear, I printed the page before you deleted it! KP Administration might want to see it.

Did you not know everything can be printed? You must need computer training!

Here is your spoon!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> It seems as if you cannot read as you posted a picture of a Raid can then deleted it and then ask what can, but my dear, I printed the page before you deleted it! KP Administration might want to see it.
> 
> Did you not know everything can be printed? You must need computer training!
> 
> Here is your spoon!


You can take your spoon and put it where the sun doesn't shine, Janeway. 
I'm sure Admin wouldn't be offended by a can of Raid. Grow up.But he may be offended by your pile of dung and telling people to eat it. You really are a disgusting person.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> However I won't check your source for this channel leads the world in half news and exagerated opinions.


also from NPRhttp://www.npr.org/2013/05/14/183810320/justice-department-secretly-obtains-ap-phone-records

since I knew how people feel about Fox News,I did clarify the article was written by AP, just published on Fox's site.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well shame on the IRS. some of them will be losing their jobs.
> They were wrong. But you can't blame Obama for that.
> The AP is going after the phone records, not Obama. Can youu ever post anything that has some merit or correctness in it?


Why not blame Obama, his administration knew about the IRS and it's political targeting over a year ago. Think a story was in the NYT last Spring

The AP was not going after the phone records, the Justice Department was, which is part of the Obama Admin. Good grief, get your facts correct.

And

""You can take your spoon and put it where the sun doesn't shine, Janeway. 
I'm sure Admin wouldn't be offended by a can of Raid. Grow up.But he may be offended by your pile of dung and telling people to eat it. You really are a disgusting person.""

Talk about being a disgusting person. Telling someone to shove a spoon up their rectum is very offensive and disgusting. But no one will be surprised that you said that, same old same old MO


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Why not blame Obama, his administration knew about the IRS and it's political targeting over a year ago. Think a story was in the NYT last Spring
> 
> The AP was not going after the phone records, the Justice Department was, which is part of the Obama Admin. Good grief, get your facts correct.
> 
> ...


[Quote off2knit]"Telling someone to shove a spoon up their rectum is very offensive and disgusting" [end quote/]

You said that, off2knit not I. Once again your unusually large probiscus is where it doesn't belong. You have a filthy and very perverse mind. They will read that you said it, not me.
You took a statement and assumed.. Put your donkey mask back on.
I did correct my statement had you bothered to scroll down and read it and thanked sirNJ for bringing it to my attention.
Anything else?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end.


Yes he does ,Andrea and they won't stop trying to sabotage his presidency instead of actually working for their pay. It's ridiculous.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> [Quote off2knit]"Telling someone to shove a spoon up their rectum is very offensive and disgusting" [end quote/]
> 
> You said that, off2knit not I. Once again your unusually large probiscus is where it doesn't belong. You have a filthy and very perverse mind. They will read that you said it, not me.
> You took a statement and assumed.. Put your donkey mask back on.
> ...


Read the whole exchange. Our friend Janeway is the one who deserves credit for the dung and spoon-licking. It may not bother some of you who live on farms, but most of us are disgusted by this.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Should have asked to have it deleted

You seem to go back days to retrieve old posts to slam people about. The worm has turned


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You can take your spoon and put it where the sun doesn't shine, Janeway.
> I'm sure Admin wouldn't be offended by a can of Raid. Grow up.But he may be offended by your pile of dung and telling people to eat it. You really are a disgusting person.


Thanks for the compliment as you think I'm a disgusting person! At least the dung won't exterminate you but only make you sick--yours is worse!

It will be hard to find a place where the sun does not shine as God/Jesus loves me. I will pray for you!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Bye bye Eric Holder. One down.................


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Read the whole exchange. Our friend Janeway is the one who deserves credit for the dung and spoon-licking. It may not bother some of you who live on farms, but most of us are disgusted by this.


I did not intend for the dung to bother you as it was not for you. Others were just being nasty, but cannot tolerate it when someone comes up with something that equals their words.

Why did you not comment on Bratty's picture of the Raid Can? Termination is much worse than licking a spoon with a little dung!

People in the western states burned dried dung for fuel where there were not any trees for wood. People must be resourceful in order to survive!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> It seems as if you cannot read as you posted a picture of a Raid can then deleted it and then ask what can, but my dear, I printed the page before you deleted it! KP Administration might want to see it.
> 
> Did you not know everything can be printed? You must need computer training!
> 
> Here is your spoon!


Let's see how Admin likes your posts and your spoon. A picture of a can of raid is nothing compared to the demented and disgusting things that you and off2knit posted.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks for correcting my mistake siNJ


Must say your Avatar is lovely! Thanks for changing it!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Should have asked to have it deleted
> 
> You seem to go back days to retrieve old posts to slam people about. The worm has turned


Yes, maybe you should have. Now everyone will see it and judge you by it.

Once again you have your cast of characters mixed up. Old posts are just old news.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Jane, I think Miss America has threatened me and you. Maybe she is the "he" she keeps referring to. 

Yippie ready to watch Jay Carney...............more fun than a human being should be allowed to have


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Jane, I think Miss America has threatened me and you. Maybe she is the "he" she keeps referring to.
> 
> Yippie ready to watch Jay Carney...............more fun than a human being should be allowed to have


No, you haven't been threatened by me. You don't think that Admin reads these posts? Guess again. Admin is a man, fool.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I did not intend for the dung to bother you as it was not for you. Others were just being nasty, but cannot tolerate it when someone comes up with something that equals their words.
> 
> Why did you not comment on Bratty's picture of the Raid Can? Termination is much worse than licking a spoon with a little dung!
> 
> People in the western states burned dried dung for fuel where there were not any trees for wood. People must be resourceful in order to survive!


Nothing can justify the disgusting remarks you have made.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Bye bye Eric Holder. One down.................


And you know this how?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, you haven't been threatened by me. You don't think that Admin reads these posts? Guess again. Admin is a man, fool.


Oh dear, again with the name calling. tsk tsk.

Who know what you are other than a person that randomly changes their avatar to odd pictures. One you could be male or female (Patty is a very Irish name for Patrick), you could be lying about your name, you could be lying about the administrator. If 'he' reads them, that is 'his' right and probably 'his' responsibility. I hope that when read 'he' reads them with an open mind. I hope if 'he' asks someone to tone something down, it will be asked of all parties. That seems to be the case which is appreciated, I just wish I had the time to read all the posts on this site.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes he does ,Andrea and they won't stop trying to sabotage his presidency instead of actually working for their pay. It's ridiculous.


If the little man would start acting presidential instead of a king wannabe he wouldn't be in these situations.

But all he knows is lying and corruption and it's his blind followers that are the ones giving him a pass on all of his piggish behavior. You all remind me of a mother of a criminal after his arrest saying to the press, "But he's such a good boy."


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> If the little man would start acting presidential instead of a king wannabe he wouldn't be in these situations.
> 
> But all he knows is lying and corruption and it's his blind followers that are the ones giving him a pass on all of his piggish behavior. You all remind me of a mother of a criminal after his arrest saying to the press, "But he's such a good boy."


and there is as much to say referring to blind haters. are you referring to the IRS 'scandal"? or the Benghazi sideshow? Maybe the AP thing? 
Obama did all that personally in your eyes right?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

After the news conference, believing that the country is becoming untethered. (almost) free at last, free at last, thank God we may be free at last


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> and there is as much to say referring to blind haters.


Yeah, I don't much care for liars and corrupt people. Too bad the libs aren't as discriminating in the company they keep and are willing to follow.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote
> 
> I wonder if Joey is going to Washington? She wasn't even able to come back out here and defend her post so she sure as hell wouldn't go to Washington. I think the right are a bunch of talkers but nothing more than that. I guess you just have to call their bluff and they run away. So much for their resolve. Maybe, in the last couple of days they are seeing more clearly the lack of leadership on their side and they are getting a little nervous. It's getting harder and harder for them to defend themselves when they don't have their source of talking points.


Ah yes, the infamous talking points. Where it takes 12 tries to get them correct. The talking points where all references to Islamic terrorists were taken out. Where the front runner of the talking points was a video that no one in the Middle East ever watched. This crap is getting harder and harder for the liberals to defend. How can the president say it was a terrorist attack from the beginning (his words) and then blame a video the next day for the attack for over 2 weeks? Then the president saying that it was "very clear throughout, that it was not clear what took place", in all the interviews and talk shows he went on: an interview with ABC, The View, David Letterman, UN speech and Univision news network. It was very clear to the people on the ground, the CIA and the president of Libya that it was indeed a terrorist attack. This is just total manipulation by the administration from the beginning. It is a story of a failed foreign policy, one that turned horribly bad.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, I don't much care for liars and corrupt people. Too bad the libs aren't as discriminating in the company they keep and are willing to follow.


When there is proof tying Obama to these scandals, I might think differently, but for now, I'll wait for the investigative reports to come back. The IRS hearing is on Friday.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, again with the name calling. tsk tsk.
> 
> Who know what you are other than a person that randomly changes their avatar to odd pictures. One you could be male or female (Patty is a very Irish name for Patrick), you could be lying about your name, you could be lying about the administrator. If 'he' reads them, that is 'his' right and probably 'his' responsibility. I hope that when read 'he' reads them with an open mind. I hope if 'he' asks someone to tone something down, it will be asked of all parties. That seems to be the case which is appreciated, I just wish I had the time to read all the posts on this site.


This realy bothers you and Janeway doesn't it? LOL


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This realy bothers you and Janeway doesn't it? LOL


From your avatar all I can see is a dirty old woman in rags sitting on a pile of rocks. It says a lot about you


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, I don't much care for liars and corrupt people. Too bad the libs aren't as discriminating in the company they keep and are willing to follow.


Then why are you a Republican?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then why are you a Republican?


I'm an Independant. However, that being said, the Republican party has had it's share of nuts and dishonest people. They get rid of them though. You all just keep making excuses for the democratic ones and let them continue to inflict their damage on the American public.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> So joey if you can't get Obama out of office and you can't discredit Clinton is the next step for the right to start a civil war? This is incendiary speech and probably something you should not have posted on KP unless you can explain it. You tried to brush it off by saying it was just something you found interesting but I'm sure you are smart enough to know anyone on KP could read it. Maybe you can tell us what you find interesting about it and why you did put it out here. Maybe this is why the U.S. government is buying up all the ammo so it won't fall into the hands of internal terrorists such as you and your good Christian folks on the right. If you believe this article has validity you have a lot more in common with Muslim terrorists who live in a theocracy and have sharia law than you do with me. I consider you a well educated and well spoken woman so please explain what this means to you and why anyone on the left should not find it a little disturbing. Do we need to be afriad of you? Are you preparing for this war? I don't take anyone suggesting Civil War in my country lightly. Please off2knit don't reply for joey she can do it herself.
> 
> Interesting Article:
> ...


Where did joeysomma say anything about civil war? Joey did not bring up that fact, you did. It was in the article. Joey also did not bring up marching on Washington DC carrying guns, again you did. Accusing Joey of being an internal terrorist is really off the wall. What is your problem? You are the one losing it. Is this what happens to ones brain when it forces itself to be nice to others? The above is Cheeky's brain on the drug of being nice.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> No, that's not a junior editor's badge. That's a full-fledged general's badge and I see you still haven't figured out how to use the "quote reply" option when posting.
> 
> This supposed liberal did a happy dance on hearing that Gosnell was convicted of 3 counts of first degree murder. It makes me wonder if abortionists have any obligation to care for a live infant when they botch a late-term abortion, as Gosnell seems to have done. He wasn't supposed to end up with a live infant if he was attempting to kill the fetus.
> 
> It also makes me wonder why late-term abortions are legal if the fetus is viable. I can understand they might have to be done to if the health of the mother or the fetus is threatened but otherwise I don't think it should be done by an abortionist who probably doesn't have any kind of system for providing emotional support, etc., to the mother. Since infants are so adoptable, why not replace voluntary late-term abortion with a combination of induced labor and letting the mother sign away her parental rights so the infant can be adopted. The father could be assumed to have no parental rights in that kind of process so there wouldn't have to be any fuss about him also giving up his parental rights. That doesn't sound any worse than a late-term abortion which I assume is pretty unpleasant for the woman no matter how much she wants it.


Another problem for Gosnel is that late term abortions are not legal in PA and he was preforming them.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, again with the name calling. tsk tsk.
> 
> Who know what you are other than a person that randomly changes their avatar to odd pictures. One you could be male or female (Patty is a very Irish name for Patrick), you could be lying about your name, you could be lying about the administrator. If 'he' reads them, that is 'his' right and probably 'his' responsibility. I hope that when read 'he' reads them with an open mind. I hope if 'he' asks someone to tone something down, it will be asked of all parties. That seems to be the case which is appreciated, I just wish I had the time to read all the posts on this site.


Why do you keep posting the same thing over and over again off? You are not making any sense and you are a total bore.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The"little " man is not responsible for anything listed above.
> Listen to the news once in a while. You may learn something.
> You may try another source besides Fox Noise.


You need to turn off MSNBC, their ratings show how uninformed they really are.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> From your avatar all I can see is a dirty old woman in rags sitting on a pile of rocks. It says a lot about you


And all I see from your avatar is the wife of an adulterous, disbarred, sanctioned, lying husband who does not know the definition of the word 'is'. I see a woman that has been screwed by two presidents and probably will never be one. I would rather sit on rocks, wearing rags knitting with dignity than be that woman


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul wrote:
No, that's not a junior editor's badge. That's a full-fledged general's badge and I see you still haven't figured out how to use the "quote reply" option when posting.

This supposed liberal did a happy dance on hearing that Gosnell was convicted of 3 counts of first degree murder. It makes me wonder if abortionists have any obligation to care for a live infant when they botch a late-term abortion, as Gosnell seems to have done. He wasn't supposed to end up with a live infant if he was attempting to kill the fetus. 

It also makes me wonder why late-term abortions are legal if the fetus is viable. I can understand they might have to be done to if the health of the mother or the fetus is threatened but otherwise I don't think it should be done by an abortionist who probably doesn't have any kind of system for providing emotional support, etc., to the mother. Since infants are so adoptable, why not replace voluntary late-term abortion with a combination of induced labor and letting the mother sign away her parental rights so the infant can be adopted. The father could be assumed to have no parental rights in that kind of process so there wouldn't have to be any fuss about him also giving up his parental rights. That doesn't sound any worse than a late-term abortion which I assume is pretty unpleasant for the woman no matter how much she wants it.


Another problem for Gosnel is that late term abortions are not legal in PA and he was preforming them.

soloweygirl


Seattle I will post anyway I prefer to and I am sure I do not need or desire your advice. If I want it I will ask for it. I'm sure no harm was meant on your part. Maybe you are a bit anal retentive to be concerned about such things but that's OK.

Yes, I did do my happy dance when I heard the good news about Gosnel. Are happy dancing and liberal mutually exclusive?
That makes no sense at all.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And all I see from your avatar is the wife of an adulterous, disbarred, sanctioned, lying husband who does not know the definition of the word 'is'. I see a woman that has been screwed by two presidents and probably will never be one. I would rather sit on rocks, wearing rags knitting with dignity than be that woman


You sure are right where you belong off. Sitting in a sand pile in the back yard. You really have to quit eating the stuff you find out there. It seems to be having a very detrimental effect on your cognitive skills. It's sad a grown woman has no higher aspirations for herself than you do but I guess you must know your own limitations so the dirt pile is probably a good option for you. You really do look like that's where you belong. Maybe, you could get Jane to bring over some of her dried dung and the two of you could make a bonfire and snuggle. Cheeky likes to snuggle almost as much as I like to dance. :-D


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who siezed the phone records? " Can youu ever post anything that has some merit or correctness in it?"
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/05/13/justice-department-associated-press-telephone-records/2156521/


If you would have read back Joey, you would have seen my correction and thanks to sirNJ for pointing out my mistake.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who siezed the phone records? " Can youu ever post anything that has some merit or correctness in it?"
> 
> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/05/13/justice-department-associated-press-telephone-records/2156521/


The $50,000 question is can you,joey. You are a fine one to correct anyone else out here when you can't explain why you posted your civil war threat. I'm still waiting, Joey. Clean up your own act before you go after someone else. Are you bringing your gun to the march in Washington, Joey? Do you have your uniform ready?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And all I see from your avatar is the wife of an adulterous, disbarred, sanctioned, lying husband who does not know the definition of the word 'is'. I see a woman that has been screwed by two presidents and probably will never be one. I would rather sit on rocks, wearing rags knitting with dignity than be that woman


Oh my your jealousy is overwhelming! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
Your filthy mind and mouth are SOOOOO ladylike .... NOT


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Another problem for Gosnel is that late term abortions are not legal in PA and he was preforming them.


Where are late term abortions legal, solowey?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You need to turn off MSNBC, their ratings show how uninformed they really are.


I watch CNN .


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my your jealousy is overwhelming! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
> Your filthy mind and mouth are SOOOOO ladylike .... NOT


Hummmm

whatever

Wonder why my quote is different from your post? Curiouser and curiouser


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh my your jealousy is overwhelming! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Yes, Patty off and her buddies are very jealous of a lot of things. Oh, look at their sad little faces. :-( They don't know how to be nice and have fun so Cheeky feels so sorry for them. Bless their poor pitiful little hearts. Their party has let them down and they have no where to go. :-( Cheeky is double sad for you. 
Please why don't you help Jane clean up the smelly mess she made. It's really disgusting. Bye now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hummmm
> 
> whatever
> 
> Wonder why my quote is different from your post? Curiouser and curiouser


As usual, you make no sense.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hummmm
> 
> whatever
> 
> Wonder why my quote is different from your post? Curiouser and curiouser


off you still are talking in circles. You should take a nap. It might help clear your mind and help you focus. You are very confused and sadly still a bore. I guess there is no cure for that. Too bad for you.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, Patty off and her buddies are very jealous of a lot of things. Oh, look at their sad little faces. :-( They don't know how to be nice and have fun so Cheeky feels so sorry for them. Bless their poor pitiful little hearts. Their party has let them down and they have no where to go. :-( Cheeky is double sad for you. Bye now.


Gosh, think this post needs a third grade teacher to edit it, so elementary. But desperate people sometimes do desperate and stupid things. Oh well

Bless your heart too


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Maybe Eric Holder would be a better avatar for you. What a fine role model. Oh wait, he was in charge of 'Fast and Furious' that had a border patrolman killed. Seems like people are always being killed because of people in the Obama admin. Reminds me of the Clinton Administration and his body bag count.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Gosh, think this post needs a third grade teacher to edit it, so elementary. But desperate people sometimes do desperate and stupid things. Oh well
> 
> Bless your heart too


You make me laugh, off. You just keep sitting in your sand pile and spinning. You just can't keep up can you? :-D


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Can everyone just stop now? It's so unedifying.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You make me laugh, off. You just keep sitting in your sand pile and spinning. You just can't keep up can you? :-D


And I feel pity for you. Regardless if I am sitting on a rock or a pile of sand, I have my dignity. Regardless if I am knitting or spinning, I have my dignity. Regardless of what you think about me, it does not have an affect on me, I have my dignity. I will never admire any women that stays, or approves of a woman that stays, with an adulterous man. You admire such a woman. You admire a woman that stayed with an adulterous man because she wanted the power he had. She is a weak coward. As a feminist she should have left him and continued with her career on her own abilities. Now that is a woman I would have admired for her strength of character.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> SeattleSoul wrote:
> No, that's not a junior editor's badge. That's a full-fledged general's badge and I see you still haven't figured out how to use the "quote reply" option when posting.
> 
> This supposed liberal did a happy dance on hearing that Gosnell was convicted of 3 counts of first degree murder. It makes me wonder if abortionists have any obligation to care for a live infant when they botch a late-term abortion, as Gosnell seems to have done. He wasn't supposed to end up with a live infant if he was attempting to kill the fetus.
> ...


Wow! Someone sure is touchy. And to think I did it all with my little editor's badge.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And I feel pity for you. Regardless if I am sitting on a rock or a pile of sand, I have my dignity. Regardless if I am knitting or spinning, I have my dignity. Regardless of what you think about me, it does not have an affect on me, I have my dignity. I will never admire any women that stays, or approves of a woman that stays, with an adulterous man. You admire such a woman. You admire a woman that stayed with an adulterous man because she wanted the power he had. She is a weak coward. As a feminist she should have left him and continued with her career on her own abilities. Now that is a woman I would have admired for her strength of character.


I beg to disagree. It takes strength and courage to forgive as she did and to make the marriage last another 15 years. She didn't need Bill for her political career. She was voted in to the Senate with a very high percentage of the votes. Her family is from big money, so she didn't need him for that.
Come to think of it, she could have dumped him, but she had strenght and courage to move on in their married life. I think it shows a lot of character on her part to save her marriage.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hummmm
> 
> whatever
> 
> Wonder why my quote is different from your post? Curiouser and curiouser


O2K, they are either having fun at our expense or dumb as dirt (I've actually seen more cellular activity in sterilized dirt). Either way they should be completely ignored.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> O2K, they are either having fun at our expense or dumb as dirt (I've actually seen more cellular activity in sterilized dirt). Either way they should be completely ignored.


How are Chosen #1 And Chosen# 2 doing?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I vote, dumb as dirt. Sure forgiveness is a wonderful, though difficult, to give to another person. But stupidity is to stay or think he is going to change or even cares. Poor Chelsea. Think of the humiliation she went through. Think of what she thinks is a healthy marriage is, based on her role models. If I had to explain to my daughter where Chelsea's dad put his cigar, imagine what she went through knowing what he did. I can remember the revulsion on my daughter's face, imagine the revulsion Chelsea was feeling.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How are Chosen #1 And Chosen# 2 doing?


Excellent, thank you very much. Son is still in shock.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Always pick up the heavier twin first. Will save your back


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Wow! Someone sure is touchy. And to think I did it all with my little editor's badge.


If playing kiddie kop on KP is your thing Seattle go ahead and play. I'm just not interested in your antics so please mind your own business in the future. Thank you.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

News out of Florida


Pablo Pantoja Turns Democrat: RNC Florida Hispanic Director Cites GOP 'Intolerance' In Making Party Switch


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I vote, dumb as dirt. Sure forgiveness is a wonderful, though difficult, to give to another person. But stupidity is to stay or think he is going to change or even cares. Poor Chelsea. Think of the humiliation she went through. Think of what she thinks is a healthy marriage is, based on her role models. If I had to explain to my daughter where Chelsea's dad put his cigar, imagine what she went through knowing what he did. I can remember the revulsion on my daughter's face, imagine the revulsion Chelsea was feeling.


You sure have a nasty unclean mind off. You like to get low down and dirty and get all the scum don't you. Don't feel sorry for Chelsea. She doesn't need it. She has two wonderful parents that she is proud of and they love her very much. You are the one who is perverse and revolting even bringing this up. Do you want to go over the transgressions on the right?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Excellent, thank you very much. Son is still in shock.


I'll bet he is lol! Congrats, thumper. It is a true blessing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you mean 'Paddy' as the Irish name? Any why would someone changing their avatar bother you? Are you feeling well?



off2knit said:


> Oh dear, again with the name calling. tsk tsk.
> 
> Who know what you are other than a person that randomly changes their avatar to odd pictures. One you could be male or female (Patty is a very Irish name for Patrick), you could be lying about your name, you could be lying about the administrator. If 'he' reads them, that is 'his' right and probably 'his' responsibility. I hope that when read 'he' reads them with an open mind. I hope if 'he' asks someone to tone something down, it will be asked of all parties. That seems to be the case which is appreciated, I just wish I had the time to read all the posts on this site.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Foolish and manipulative.



soloweygirl said:


> Ah yes, the infamous talking points. Where it takes 12 tries to get them correct. The talking points where all references to Islamic terrorists were taken out. Where the front runner of the talking points was a video that no one in the Middle East ever watched. This crap is getting harder and harder for the liberals to defend. How can the president say it was a terrorist attack from the beginning (his words) and then blame a video the next day for the attack for over 2 weeks? Then the president saying that it was "very clear throughout, that it was not clear what took place", in all the interviews and talk shows he went on: an interview with ABC, The View, David Letterman, UN speech and Univision news network. It was very clear to the people on the ground, the CIA and the president of Libya that it was indeed a terrorist attack. This is just total manipulation by the administration from the beginning. It is a story of a failed foreign policy, one that turned horribly bad.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How are Chosen #1 And Chosen# 2 doing?


Congratulations, Thumper. That is wonderful news for you and your family.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The votes in the election are the ones that count. It must bother you and yours a great deal.



soloweygirl said:


> You need to turn off MSNBC, their ratings show how uninformed they really are.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A very hateful, opinionated thing to say about someone you've never met. So judgmental.



off2knit said:


> And all I see from your avatar is the wife of an adulterous, disbarred, sanctioned, lying husband who does not know the definition of the word 'is'. I see a woman that has been screwed by two presidents and probably will never be one. I would rather sit on rocks, wearing rags knitting with dignity than be that woman


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your dignity is only in your own mind, dear. You need a time out. Sit in the corner and think of what you've done.



off2knit said:


> And I feel pity for you. Regardless if I am sitting on a rock or a pile of sand, I have my dignity. Regardless if I am knitting or spinning, I have my dignity. Regardless of what you think about me, it does not have an affect on me, I have my dignity. I will never admire any women that stays, or approves of a woman that stays, with an adulterous man. You admire such a woman. You admire a woman that stayed with an adulterous man because she wanted the power he had. She is a weak coward. As a feminist she should have left him and continued with her career on her own abilities. Now that is a woman I would have admired for her strength of character.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo! Welcome to all!



peacegoddess said:


> News out of Florida
> 
> Pablo Pantoja Turns Democrat: RNC Florida Hispanic Director Cites GOP 'Intolerance' In Making Party Switch


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> A very hateful, opinionated thing to say about someone you've never met. So judgmental.


But true nevertheless.

It's all common knowledge and been the butt of jokes by comedians for years so why are you acting so shocked?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> I vote, dumb as dirt. Sure forgiveness is a wonderful, though difficult, to give to another person. But stupidity is to stay or think he is going to change or even cares. Poor Chelsea. Think of the humiliation she went through. Think of what she thinks is a healthy marriage is, based on her role models. If I had to explain to my daughter where Chelsea's dad put his cigar, imagine what she went through knowing what he did. I can remember the revulsion on my daughter's face, imagine the revulsion Chelsea was feeling.


Your voyeuristic commentary does not honor your professed christianity. Who is to say what one would do in a similar situation until one is in the situation.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> From your avatar all I can see is a dirty old woman in rags sitting on a pile of rocks. It says a lot about you


Shame on you that could be some of her family which I think it is very nice not ugly like the Orkin Man in your avatar.

So what if Admin is a man--don't you "like" men? There are more than one person in KP's Admin so it shows how much you don't know!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> News out of Florida
> 
> Pablo Pantoja Turns Democrat: RNC Florida Hispanic Director Cites GOP 'Intolerance' In Making Party Switch


Of course they would switch parties as there are more give-a-ways on the Demo side as they looooooooooove to spend our money without regard tomthe future just spent today!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:
 

> Bravo! Welcome to all!


Here's your spoon!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> A very hateful, opinionated thing to say about someone you've never met. So judgmental.


Here's your spoon again! Enjoy,


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, Patty off and her buddies are very jealous of a lot of things. Oh, look at their sad little faces. :-( They don't know how to be nice and have fun so Cheeky feels so sorry for them. Bless their poor pitiful little hearts. Their party has let them down and they have no where to go. :-( Cheeky is double sad for you.
> Please why don't you help Jane clean up the smelly mess she made. It's really disgusting. Bye now.


Remember if you stir up the pot of "Dung" you get to lick the spoon!

Here's your spoon!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> off you still are talking in circles. You should take a nap. It might help clear your mind and help you focus. You are very confused and sadly still a bore. I guess there is no cure for that. Too bad for you.


Cheeky can someone die from constipation? I'm worried about you as you seem to be full of dung from all the spoon licking!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This realy bothers you and Janeway doesn't it? LOL


Oh, Bratty, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch and may your arms be too short to scratch!

Here's your dung spoon! Lick it clean as you continually stir up the pot!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The $50,000 question is can you,joey. You are a fine one to correct anyone else out here when you can't explain why you posted your civil war threat. I'm still waiting, Joey. Clean up your own act before you go after someone else. Are you bringing your gun to the march in Washington, Joey? Do you have your uniform ready?


Oh, dear me those thousand camels are after you! You must be constipated from licking the spoon too much!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, Bratty, may the fleas of a thousand camels infest your crotch and may your arms be too short to scratch!
> 
> Here's your dung spoon! Lick it clean as you continually stir up the pot!


As I said before, you are a disgusting pig.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Excerpt from article on Common Dreams

Fourth Generation Oklahoman Halts Construction On Keystone XL Easement
HUGHES COUNTY, OK - May 13 - Bob Waldrop, 60, fourth generation Oklahoman and prominent Oklahoma City community member walked onto an active construction site for the Keystone XL pipeline in Seminole County and locked himself to an Excavator, a piece of heavy machinery used in the construction of the pipeline. Waldrop took a stand today in defense of the land and the human and non-humans that depend upon it to survive.

Waldrop, as a founding member of the Oscar Romero Catholic Workers House, is a part of Great Plains Tar Sands Resistance, a growing coalition of groups and individuals dedicated to stopping the expansion of Tar Sands infrastructure throughout the Great Plains. His action follows an escalating number of work-stopping actions, of which there were five in April alone, in Oklahoma.

Raised on a farm in rural Oklahoma, Waldrop believes All farmers know that if you dont take care of your land, your land cant take care of you. And Im here today because this pipeline is an enormous attack on the land. Here in Oklahoma and all the way up the Great Plains and into Canada giant earthmoving machines are destroying ecosystems. They are uprooting trees, murdering birds and destroying habitat, killing little critters. They are trampling on the rights of Indigenous people of the area whose treaties are being violated and abrogated by the greed of TransCanada and its stockholders.

Im here in part because of my religious faith. Im a devout Roman Catholic, and Im following in the example of Jesus himself who took a stand against every form of evil. Jesus set a model for all of us when he took a whip and drove the moneychangers out of the temple. Im sure that was against the city ordinances of Jerusalem but he did not hesitate. Im here today to show TransCanada that they cant just run over everybody and the environment. There are people that are willing to stand up for their rights and the rights of the planet.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Of course they would switch parties as there are more give-a-ways on the Demo side as they looooooooooove to spend our money without regard tomthe future just spent today!


Janeway 
It was an individual who switched. Check out the article for enlightenment.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Of course they would switch parties as there are more give-a-ways on the Demo side as they looooooooooove to spend our money without regard tomthe future just spent today!


Janeway,

To make it easy for you, here is the article. 
Less than two months after the Republican National Committee announced a multi-million dollar campaign to improve minority outreach, one of its state Hispanic directors is leaving the Republican Party altogether.

In a letter released by The Florida Nation on Monday, RNC State Director Of Florida Outreach Pablo Pantoja announced that he is changing his political affiliation to the Democratic Party.

"It doesnt take much to see the culture of intolerance surrounding the Republican Party today," he wrote. "I have wondered before about the seemingly harsh undertones about immigrants and others. Look no further; a well-known organization recently confirms the intolerance of that which seems different or strange to them."

Back in March, RNC Chairman Reince Priebus announced that the organization was investing $10 million to send hundreds of workers into Hispanic, black and Asian communities to improve standing with voters. Here in May, questions continue to linger whether a line of amendments proposed by Republican voices will derail immigration reform, and subsequently dampen chances for improving relations with minority voters.

Pantoja is not the first Republican in the Sunshine State to recently change their party affiliation. Back in December, former Florida Gov. Charlie Crist moved over from the GOP to the Democratic Party, hailing how he was "proud and honored" to make the switch. Democrats eked out a 2012 presidential election win in Florida, with President Barack Obama defeating GOP challenger Mitt Romney by less than 75,000 votes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Of course they would switch parties as there are more give-a-ways on the Demo side as they looooooooooove to spend our money without regard tomthe future just spent today!


Who's "they" and who's looking for give-aways? I think your post smacks of bias, Jane. For all you know you could be talking to a Latina.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, dear me those thousand camels are after you! You must be constipated from licking the spoon too much!


Jane, you need a thousand cookies. This language is unbecoming even you!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Jane, you need a thousand cookies. This language is unbecoming even you!


What she needs is a bottle of Tidy Bowl to rinse her mouth out with. Then a 2000 Flushes tablet to chew on.
Notice none of her "friends" are laughing?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> If playing kiddie kop on KP is your thing Seattle go ahead and play. I'm just not interested in your antics so please mind your own business in the future. Thank you.


You'd be the first to say this is a public forum, and anyone can say what they want to, to any other participant. Funny how you seem to have forgotten that and become the big bad wolf who likes to eat anyone who criticizes you in the least. Interesting approach.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> What she needs is a bottle of Tidy Bowl to rinse her mouth out with. Then a 2000 Flushes tablet to chew on.
> Notice none of her "friends" are laughing?


Let's just let her flail herself with nettles like the eccentric monks of old.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Cheeky can someone die from constipation? I'm worried about you as you seem to be full of dung from all the spoon licking!


Jane you have a filthy mouth and you should be ashamed of your terrible behavior. You have got to get more civil or no one is going to want to even be around you. I thought you were a grown woman but you are acting like an awful brat with absolutely no manners.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You'd be the first to say this is a public forum, and anyone can say what they want to, to any other participant. Funny how you seem to have forgotten that and become the big bad wolf who likes to eat anyone who criticizes you in the least. Interesting approach.


Yes it is a public forum and you are being rude. I just made a simple request. Please leave me alone. Thank you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Jane, you need a thousand cookies. This language is unbecoming even you!


Have you read the comments made to me? You did not answer about Bratty's Orkin Man in her Avatar or the constant picture of the Raid Spray!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well, Janeway, that is what you would call pest control.
You just don't get it. You are making a complete fool out of yourself. Nobody is laughing with you, but many are laughing at you.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane you have a filthy mouth and you should be ashamed of your terrible behavior. You have got to get more civil or no one is going to want to even be around you. I thought you were a grown woman but you are acting like an awful brat with absolutely no manners.


Oh, Cheeky, I do love our new Avatar--it is soooooo you!

You have the dirtiest mouth so just enjoy what is being said back to you! You are the brat!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Have you read the comments made to me? You did not answer about Bratty's Orkin Man in her Avatar or the constant picture of the Raid Spray!


Jane you started this crazy stuff. You know Patty isn't going to kill you or anybody else. Settle down.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, Janeway, that is what you would call pest control.
> You just don't get it. You are making a complete fool out of yourself. Nobody is laughing with you, but many are laughing at you.


Oh, good as I love to laugh! Did the camel fleas catch you?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, Cheeky, I do love our new Avatar--it is soooooo you!
> 
> You have the dirtiest mouth so just enjoy what is being said back to you! You are the brat!


Jane I'm glad you like my avatar. It's the real me. Now clean up your nasty mouth and act like an adult.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Jane you started this crazy stuff. You know Patty isn't going to kill you or anybody else. Settle down.


I did not start this but I'm going to finish as yes Patty meant to kill me off with the Raid spray! That was not nice!

Ever notice that the person who tells you to calm down is the one who got you mad in the first place? :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, good as I love to laugh! Did the camel fleas catch you?


I thought you were sick in the head, but not until today did I see how demented and disturbed you really are.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Patty how hot did it get in St. Cloud today? It was sizzling here. Andrea, I didn't get to the capitol but they had a huge turn out. Some of the people I met working on VoteNo will be getting married within the next year or so, so that is really exciting.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I did not start this but I'm going to finish as yes Patty meant to kill me off with the Raid spray! That was not nice!
> 
> Ever notice that the person who tells you to calm down is the one who got you mad in the first place? :thumbup: :thumbup: :roll:


Please! You are really starting to blither. We all know that roach spray can't come through your computer screen and kill you.
Foolish woman.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it is a public forum and you are being rude. I just made a simple request. Please leave me alone. Thank you.


Public is public. Anyone can address any one else. I'd have to try much harder to be rude to you. Rudeness is your trip, and you do seem to trip out a lot.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Patty, I need to borrow the bug spray. There is an annoying little gnat flying around out here. Thanks, that did the trick.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Off to bed. Night Patty.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nite, Cheeky!


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Wow, once again the libs have resorted to pure nastiness. What a sad life they must have to get their jollies from teaming up and attacking people all night, then leave at the same time because they can't stand on their own two feet.

But it must be so frustrating for them to find out all of the Obama 'ifs' are true. Maybe if he told the truth, the country could be happier and finally feel untethered.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I beg to disagree. It takes strength and courage to forgive as she did and to make the marriage last another 15 years. She didn't need Bill for her political career. She was voted in to the Senate with a very high percentage of the votes. Her family is from big money, so she didn't need him for that.
> Come to think of it, she could have dumped him, but she had strenght and courage to move on in their married life. I think it shows a lot of character on her part to save her marriage.


Beg all you want, but a true feminist would not have stayed in that situation to ride his coat tails. Wonder if she needed to stay in that humiliating situation to be with the "inside the beltway crowd" or to tap into the campaign funds? They must have made a lot of money for her to give up her core beliefs and sell her soul to the devil


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Beg all you want, but a true feminist would not have stayed in that situation to ride his coat tails. Wonder if she needed to stay in that humiliating situation to be with the "inside the beltway crowd" or to tap into the campaign funds? They must have made a lot of money for her to give up her core beliefs and sell her soul to the devil


What is a true feminist?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> What is a true feminist?


You were part of the NOW group, I am sure you believe you are far more knowledgeable in giving a definition, so please do so.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> You were part of the NOW group, I am sure you believe you are far more knowledgeable in giving a definition, so please do so.


Not an answer. You used the term you tell me what you think a "true" feminist is.

I would have left the man, but that is me. I do not make other people's decisions for them and i cannot judge her motivations. that is something christians seem to do in abundance...judge others.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Not an answer. You used the term you tell me what you think a "true" feminist is.
> 
> I would have left the man, but that is me. I do not make other people's decisions for them and i cannot judge her motivations. that is something christians seem to do in abundance...judge others.


Oh so now you pull the religion card out of your bag of responses, so predictable. But the NOW gang does judge. If I remember correctly you said that Conservatives did not support their cause (which I think means abortion), so the NOW organization did not help Conservative women when attacked by men. Is that not being judgmental?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Judgmental.



off2knit said:


> Beg all you want, but a true feminist would not have stayed in that situation to ride his coat tails. Wonder if she needed to stay in that humiliating situation to be with the "inside the beltway crowd" or to tap into the campaign funds? They must have made a lot of money for her to give up her core beliefs and sell her soul to the devil


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Judgmental.


No more of a conclusion based on facts. But then again we will never know 'if' she could have won the Senate race had it not been for Bill and his campaign funds and campaign organization. Wish she had the guts to stand on her own two feet, use her education and then try to get elected. But I guess, she didn't think she was capable, and had to stay with him.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Not an answer. You used the term you tell me what you think a "true" feminist is.
> 
> I would have left the man, but that is me. I do not make other people's decisions for them and i cannot judge her motivations. that is something christians seem to do in abundance...judge others.


If you had left the man wouldn't that have made you judgemental. Remember your mantra; judge not.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> If you had left the man wouldn't that have made you judgemental. Remember your mantra; judge not.


Let me be more clear. If I were in a situation where my husband cheated on me I would have left. That is me, not someone else, not making a judgement on someone else's situation. Now if you want to split hairs and say I make a judgement on my spouses actions then I say I make judgements whether to buy spinach or salad mix, I make judgements to wear a heavy sweater instead of a light coat. I will not judge another's choice on a big issue such as divorce, choice to have or not have a child or abortion that is what the small minded do ad nausium.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Since the subject is judgement here is what God says about it. Romans 2: 1-6 . Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for that you judge another , you condemn yourself: for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgement of God rightly falls falls upon those who practice such things. And do you suppose this O man, when you pass judgement upon those who practice such things and do the same yuself that you will escape the judgement of God? Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance. But because of you stubborness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God who WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. And that is not me shouting I just wrote what He said.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Since the subject is judgement here is what God says about it. Romans 2: 1-6 . Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for that you judge another , you condemn yourself: for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgement of God rightly falls falls upon those who practice such things. And do you suppose this O man, when you pass judgement upon those who practice such things and do the same yuself that you will escape the judgement of God? Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance. But because of you stubborness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God who WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. And that is not me shouting I just wrote what He said.


Which version of the bible are you quoting? Whose god are you supposedly quoting? It is a subject of philosophical debate as to whether the bible is the christian god's words.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Let's see if she decides to run in 2016....or throw her influence behind another candidate....one sure to attract even more minority votes. I'm sure you'll be whining again.



off2knit said:


> No more of a conclusion based on facts. But then again we will never know 'if' she could have won the Senate race had it not been for Bill and his campaign funds and campaign organization. Wish she had the guts to stand on her own two feet, use her education and then try to get elected. But I guess, she didn't think she was capable, and had to stay with him.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And what do the other great books have to say on the subject?



Country Bumpkins said:


> Since the subject is judgement here is what God says about it. Romans 2: 1-6 . Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for that you judge another , you condemn yourself: for you who judge practice the same things. And we know that the judgement of God rightly falls falls upon those who practice such things. And do you suppose this O man, when you pass judgement upon those who practice such things and do the same yuself that you will escape the judgement of God? Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and forbearance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance. But because of you stubborness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God who WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS. And that is not me shouting I just wrote what He said.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now there's a deep thought.

Think for ourselves? Delve deeper? Give up all hope? Any other ideas?



joeysomma said:


> If it is not God's word, what hope does anyone have?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> If it is not God's word, what hope does anyone have?


I have hope in people. I do not share your religious views. Not everyone in the world is christian despite all the christian efforts to discredit and demean other religions.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> If it is not God's word, what hope does anyone have?


It's God's word, but was written down by some of us imperfect human beings. There may be some things that were lost in the translation between what God inspired a human to write and what that human actually wrote. I think we do well to accept the Bible as God's word, but keep a sharp eye out to discern where human fallibility has entered in. We still have all the hope we possibly can with the addition of critical thinking about the meaning of God's words.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Which version of the bible are you quoting? Whose god are you supposedly quoting? It is a subject of philosophical debate as to whether the bible is the christian god's words.


New American Standard. You are the one throwing judements around about what Christians believe and judgeing one another. Slamming us with it. This is where our courts get our justice. Ten commandments. If you really want me to answer you question about God I will be more than happy to share Him with you but I will not argue with you about my Father. It is up to the Holy Spirit to show you the answer of who He and His Son are. Maybe one of your Christian democrats are willing but not me as of right now. I am going about my Father's business today. My sil had surgery and I am cooking for her and my brother. You know loving the sick and hungry . Just one of those things us stupid dumb Christians do. Loving one another and all that garbage we believe in.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> New American Standard. You are the one throwing judements around about what Christians believe and judgeing one another. Slamming us with it. This is where our courts get our justice. Ten commandments. If you really want me to answer you question about God I will be more than happy to share Him with you but I will not argue with you about my Father. It is up to the Holy Spirit to show you the answer of who He and His Son are. Maybe one of your Christian democrats are willing but not me as of right now. I am going about my Father's business today. My sil had surgery and I am cooking for her and my brother. You know loving the sick and hungry . Just one of those things us stupid dumb Christians do. Loving one another and all that garbage we believe in.


I did not use the words stupid, dumb, or garbage. My questions regard the attitude that many christians have that your god is the only god and the superior attitude of what is moral and immoral according to your god. I am not interested in knowing your god.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I think you do not take responsibility for your post either by offering a reason or making it a legitimate point of discussion.
> 
> What do you think of ideas such as the type postulated on the site you posted?
> 
> Could a group that began a civil insurrection in the name of conservative values be termed terrorist? Why or why not?


Isn't that what the left has been trying to do to the Tea Party from the beginning? I think so.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

something to think about.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> New American Standard. You are the one throwing judements around about what Christians believe and judgeing one another. Slamming us with it. This is where our courts get our justice. Ten commandments. If you really want me to answer you question about God I will be more than happy to share Him with you but I will not argue with you about my Father. It is up to the Holy Spirit to show you the answer of who He and His Son are. Maybe one of your Christian democrats are willing but not me as of right now. I am going about my Father's business today. My sil had surgery and I am cooking for her and my brother. You know loving the sick and hungry . Just one of those things us stupid dumb Christians do. Loving one another and all that garbage we believe in.


We know you are doing good things like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, etc. Many non-Christians do good deeds as well. Anyone, Christian , atheist, Muslim, Jewish can do good deeds. People either have faith in God or they don't, and I don't feel I need to judge or change their minds, either. Arguing about beliefs that are based on faith doesn't do anyone any good. Loving one another isn't garbage, and people other than Christians can and do love one another. The thing that I have difficulty with is hypocrisy. If we truly are to love one another, the c--p that goes on on this forum shouldn't happen. Disagreement is one thing, telling someone to go eat excrement is another.
Just my opinion.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't that what the left has been trying to do to the Tea Party from the beginning? I think so.


I think you do not take responsibility for your post either by offering a reason or making it a legitimate point of discussion.

What do you think of ideas such as the type postulated on the site you posted?

Could a group that began a civil insurrection in the name of conservative values be termed terrorist? Why or why not?

Isn't that what the left has been trying to do to the Tea Party from the beginning? I think so.

Answer the question I originally asked. 
Also what has the left been doing to the Tea Party? Do you mean the left is calling it a terrorist organization? I do not think it is a terrorist organization, just a really conservative group of people who think they have the ultimate interpretation on what the Constitution says and whose interpretation I disagree with on many counts.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. same ole same ole. Move on, nothing new here. Head still in the sand and the old race card excuse.



alcameron said:


> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I watch CNN .


Nothing to brag about.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Nothing to brag about.


IGNORE


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I bet Obama is in on all this IRS business, but he has covered himself and someone else will take the fall.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> A very hateful, opinionated thing to say about someone you've never met. So judgmental.


Please explain why you are so hateful, opinionated and judgmental towards the conservative and independent women on this site? You have not met any of them, have you?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron wrote:
I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]

Very true, Andrea. It looks like it will continue to go on through every dept of government, wasting our tax dollars and obstructing any important legislation , such as jobs and the economy. They are trying to get Obama in any way they can, but in the mean time Americans are the ones who are losing out because of these ridiculous witch hunts.
If a Latino were to be elected President of the United States, would they do the same thing?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. same ole same ole. Move on, nothing new here. Head still in the sand and the old race card excuse.


Don't try and imitate damemary, solowey. She's way out of your league.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I bet Obama is in on all this IRS business, but he has covered himself and someone else will take the fall.


This all started before he took office. They have been doing this since 1959. 
Check out the Washington Post for full understanding of his matter.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I think you do not take responsibility for your post either by offering a reason or making it a legitimate point of discussion.
> 
> What do you think of ideas such as the type postulated on the site you posted?
> 
> ...


The left has been trying to discredit the Tea Party from the beginning. The Tea Party believes in the Constitution, in a small government, in the ability of the people to be prosperous and handle their everyday lives and businesses with the minimum of legislation and mandates by the government. I am sorry you disagree with the Constitution on many counts. I think it is a document that has served this country well and enabled America to become a great nation.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't try and imitate damemary, solowey. She's way out of your league.


Just going down to her level. It was hard, but doable.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I bet Obama is in on all this IRS business, but he has covered himself and someone else will take the fall.


Yes, you would like to blame him, but read this and inform yourself. It might surprise you to find that the IRS has been doing this since 1959.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/14/lets-back-up-how-is-the-irs-su...


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The left has been trying to discredit the Tea Party from the beginning. The Tea Party believes in the Constitution, in a small government, in the ability of the people to be prosperous and handle their everyday lives and businesses with the minimum of legislation and mandates by the government. I am sorry you disagree with the Constitution on many counts. I think it is a document that has served this country well and enabled America to become a great nation.


I said interpretations I disagree with, not the constitution.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The left has been trying to discredit the Tea Party from the beginning. The Tea Party believes in the Constitution, in a small government, in the ability of the people to be prosperous and handle their everyday lives and businesses with the minimum of legislation and mandates by the government. I am sorry you disagree with the Constitution on many counts. I think it is a document that has served this country well and enabled America to become a great nation.


solowey I don't like the Tea Party and I never have. I don't agree that they believe in what the Constitution says. I believe they have interpreted it to serve their own purposes. Life is a lot more complicated and there are millions more people and the size of the country today is not at all what it was back then. It's like saying you can run a town of 500 citizens the same way you can run New York City. It can't be done. The make up of the population was virtually white and protestant or catholic. Look at the makeup of the diversity of our population today. I really believe we all are equal no matter our color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. but I hear on a daily basis people in the Tea Party saying terrible things about people who are not white christians and they seem to want to go back a couple hundred years in time where things were a lot less complicated. They can't do that and I have to ask myself why would anyone want to except if they wanted to reestablish the days of whites once again in an all white christian society to the exclusion of everyone else. I don't think my observation is wrong.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't try and imitate damemary, solowey. She's way out of your league.


Agreed. I, too, have no idea why solowey would want to stoop that low.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Don't try and imitate damemary, solowey. She's way out of your league.


Agreed, damemary is a woman of class and distinction and I am very proud to know her personally.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I know Dame Ingried those who can do, those who can't are envious. Madge, where are you dear?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just going down to her level. It was hard, but doable.


It should have ben very easy for you if you feel you had to go down.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> solowey I don't like the Tea Party and I never have. I don't agree that they believe in what the Constitution says. I believe they have interpreted it to serve their own purposes. Life is a lot more complicated and there are millions more people and the size of the country today is not at all what it was back then. It's like saying you can run a town of 500 citizens the same way you can run New York City. It can't be done. The make up of the population was virtually white and protestant or catholic. Look at the makeup of the diversity of our population today. I really believe we all are equal no matter our color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. but I hear on a daily basis people in the Tea Party saying terrible things about people who are not white christians and they seem to want to go back a couple hundred years in time where things were a lot less complicated. They can't do that and I have to ask myself why would anyone want to except if they wanted to reestablish the days of whites once again in an all white christian society to the exclusion of everyone else. I don't think my observation is wrong.


I never knew an all white Christian America. As a small child I lived in New York. There were people of every color and nationality there. When my parents moved us to Nevada, same thing. I guess that as a good thing beause it has made me a very racially tolerant person.
I have to agree with your view of the Tea Party. They twist the words of the Constitution around to suit them. My thought is if you don't like the government you have, move somewhere that has a government that suits you. I could never live in a society that hates women, non whites and freedom to choose your own religion.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. same ole same ole. Move on, nothing new here. Head still in the sand and the old race card excuse.[/quote
> 
> Talk about heads in the sand!!!
> It is the same ol', same ol', because it's the truth. The republicans have tried to do everything in their power to squelch this president and anything the Democrats have tried to do to move forward. They are using every tactic they can to shift responsibility for their own ineptitude and their lack of trying to pass good lesgislation. You are being sold a bill of goods by the republicans and because you have a narrow mind you can't even tell. I usually don't tell people they're narrow-minded, but if you can write to me the way you do, I feel justified. Now you try to get your head out of the sand by using your brain and reading something beside the breitbart report! Olympia Snow's new book sounds interesting. Olympia, who left Congress because she couldn't stand it anymore!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The left has been trying to discredit the Tea Party from the beginning. The Tea Party believes in the Constitution, in a small government, in the ability of the people to be prosperous and handle their everyday lives and businesses with the minimum of legislation and mandates by the government. I am sorry you disagree with the Constitution on many counts. I think it is a document that has served this country well and enabled America to become a great nation.


Yeah, and how well has that worked? Mandates by the government may have saved the lives of the 14 people dead from a fertilizer plant in Texas because they would have been inspected more often and thoroughly. Mandates from the government may have saved women and babies from the butcher Gosnell because they would have inspected the clinic. 
I'm going to start calling you ostrich if you don't get your head out of the sand!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We know you are doing good things like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, etc. Many non-Christians do good deeds as well. Anyone, Christian , atheist, Muslim, Jewish can do good deeds. People either have faith in God or they don't, and I don't feel I need to judge or change their minds, either. Arguing about beliefs that are based on faith doesn't do anyone any good. Loving one another isn't garbage, and people other than Christians can and do love one another. The thing that I have difficulty with is hypocrisy. If we truly are to love one another, the c--p that goes on on this forum shouldn't happen. Disagreement is one thing, telling someone to go eat excrement is another.
> Just my opinion.


And a very valid one, at that, Andrea!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> alcameron wrote:
> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]
> 
> Very true, Andrea. It looks like it will continue to go on through every dept of government, wasting our tax dollars and obstructing any important legislation , such as jobs and the economy. They are trying to get Obama in any way they can, but in the mean time Americans are the ones who are losing out because of these ridiculous witch hunts.
> If a Latino were to be elected President of the United States, would they do the same thing?


When that time comes, Patty, and it will in my lifetime, this will all look like a walk in the park.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]

The problem with even trying to read what you say is your name calling (shrub) and your racist attacks.

I am not aware of attacks on embassies during Pres. Bush's term, but I am sure that could have happened in the wake of the 9/11 attacks. One difference is that most of the embassies in hostile areas were guarded by Marines and not the local police as was in Benghazi. Two, no ambassador or consulate staff were murdered under Pres. Bush.

Why do you keep calling Conservatives racists? The only reason why I do not like our current president is because of his policies and lack of leadership. It has nothing to do with his mixed race. I really liked Herman Cain's economic ideas; they were something new, innovated and created based on his business experience, no issue of race was even on my radar screen. The true racist is the NAACP's president that called Tea Party members racists and Taliban terrorists. There is no proof of any of that. I know there were allegations, but there was a $100,000 reward to anyone that could prove those allegations, and no one claimed the money. With all the cell phones around the Tea Party Gatherings, someone would have caught it if it happened.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Very true, Andrea. It looks like it will continue to go on through every dept of government, wasting our tax dollars and obstructing any important legislation , such as jobs and the economy. They are trying to get Obama in any way they can, but in the mean time Americans are the ones who are losing out because of these ridiculous witch hunts.
If a Latino were to be elected President of the United States, would they do the same thing?[/quote]

When that time comes, Patty, and it will in my lifetime, this will all look like a walk in the park.

medusa

After the report the Heritage Foundation put out about the "intellect" of Latino's not being great enough to allow them to assimilate into the American population. I don't think the GOP will be looking to that sector of the population for a candidate anytime soon. No attempt to retract the report has come so they must be standing by what it says. I wonder what Marco Rubio really thinks of the GOP. Pablo Pantoja, RNC Hispanic Director resigned a couple days ago citing GOP intolerance. They seem to keep insulting the very people they say they are trying to bring into the party.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We know you are doing good things like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, etc. Many non-Christians do good deeds as well. Anyone, Christian , atheist, Muslim, Jewish can do good deeds. People either have faith in God or they don't, and I don't feel I need to judge or change their minds, either. Arguing about beliefs that are based on faith doesn't do anyone any good. Loving one another isn't garbage, and people other than Christians can and do love one another. The thing that I have difficulty with is hypocrisy. If we truly are to love one another, the c--p that goes on on this forum shouldn't happen. Disagreement is one thing, telling someone to go eat excrement is another.
> Just my opinion.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]
> 
> The problem with even trying to read what you say is your name calling (shrub) and your racist attacks.
> 
> ...


If you have no idea about embassy attacks during the Bush administration here is a link.

http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13333916-number-of-embassies-attacked-during-the-bush-years-before-benghazi-many


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could it be that IRS agents were genuinely concerned by possible misuse of the code for that section?

I believe it was originally designed for groups like PTA and highly organized groups with lots of accountants and attorneys popped up to organize themselves. They are allowed to skip the step of identifying their donors, enabling the big donors to funnel huge amounts of money....into primarily political groups.....which is not what the law is designed for.

We'll see how it all shakes out.



Lukelucy said:


> I bet Obama is in on all this IRS business, but he has covered himself and someone else will take the fall.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> alcameron wrote:
> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]
> 
> Very true, Andrea. It looks like it will continue to go on through every dept of government, wasting our tax dollars and obstructing any important legislation , such as jobs and the economy. They are trying to get Obama in any way they can, but in the mean time Americans are the ones who are losing out because of these ridiculous witch hunts.
> If a Latino were to be elected President of the United States, would they do the same thing?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks for posting the link rocky. It seems the only ones who aren't aware of the attacks are the rank and file of the GOP. Talk about having your head in the sand.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you. I really didn't know how to respond.



BrattyPatty said:


> Don't try and imitate damemary, solowey. She's way out of your league.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We know you are doing good things like feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, etc. Many non-Christians do good deeds as well. Anyone, Christian , atheist, Muslim, Jewish can do good deeds. People either have faith in God or they don't, and I don't feel I need to judge or change their minds, either. Arguing about beliefs that are based on faith doesn't do anyone any good. Loving one another isn't garbage, and people other than Christians can and do love one another. The thing that I have difficulty with is hypocrisy. If we truly are to love one another, the c--p that goes on on this forum shouldn't happen. Disagreement is one thing, telling someone to go eat excrement is another.
> Just my opinion.


 Where have I been a hypocrite? You addressed my post so you must be talking to me. I can only hold myself accountable. I can not speak for the actions of anyone else.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I know Dame Ingried those who can do, those who can't are envious. Madge, where are you dear?


We don't care if you have imaginary friends.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My friends and I cherish the Constitution at least as much as you do. The Tea Party seeks to twist the Constitution to their wishes, something the Founding Fathers would fight against.

Rant on my dear. We are not convinced.



soloweygirl said:


> The left has been trying to discredit the Tea Party from the beginning. The Tea Party believes in the Constitution, in a small government, in the ability of the people to be prosperous and handle their everyday lives and businesses with the minimum of legislation and mandates by the government. I am sorry you disagree with the Constitution on many counts. I think it is a document that has served this country well and enabled America to become a great nation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like to think that I try hard to get everyone to use their critical thinking processes (if they have any) in intelligent discussions.

I will go as high or low as required. I only seem to meet you on the low end.



soloweygirl said:


> Just going down to her level. It was hard, but doable.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, Cheeky, for your eloquent...and truthful comments.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> solowey I don't like the Tea Party and I never have. I don't agree that they believe in what the Constitution says. I believe they have interpreted it to serve their own purposes. Life is a lot more complicated and there are millions more people and the size of the country today is not at all what it was back then. It's like saying you can run a town of 500 citizens the same way you can run New York City. It can't be done. The make up of the population was virtually white and protestant or catholic. Look at the makeup of the diversity of our population today. I really believe we all are equal no matter our color, religion, sexual orientation, etc. but I hear on a daily basis people in the Tea Party saying terrible things about people who are not white christians and they seem to want to go back a couple hundred years in time where things were a lot less complicated. They can't do that and I have to ask myself why would anyone want to except if they wanted to reestablish the days of whites once again in an all white christian society to the exclusion of everyone else. I don't think my observation is wrong.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What an enlightened way to grow up, Patty! No wonder we respect your comments. Thank you for voicing them. You have much to teach us all.



BrattyPatty said:


> I never knew an all white Christian America. As a small child I lived in New York. There were people of every color and nationality there. When my parents moved us to Nevada, same thing. I guess that as a good thing beause it has made me a very racially tolerant person.
> I have to agree with your view of the Tea Party. They twist the words of the Constitution around to suit them. My thought is if you don't like the government you have, move somewhere that has a government that suits you. I could never live in a society that hates women, non whites and freedom to choose your own religion.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't care if you have imaginary friends.


Thanks, but my friends are just as real as you are.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Another in charge of making the military safe for all soldiers is being charged for rape. Lots of scrambling going on.



alcameron said:


> Yeah, and how well has that worked? Mandates by the government may have saved the lives of the 14 people dead from a fertilizer plant in Texas because they would have been inspected more often and thoroughly. Mandates from the government may have saved women and babies from the butcher Gosnell because they would have inspected the clinic.
> I'm going to start calling you ostrich if you don't get your head out of the sand!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ignorant of fact. Skip and save yourself for important comments.



off2knit said:


> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]
> 
> The problem with even trying to read what you say is your name calling (shrub) and your racist attacks.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Rocky.



rocky1991 said:


> If you have no idea about embassy attacks during the Bush administration here is a link.
> 
> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13333916-number-of-embassies-attacked-during-the-bush-years-before-benghazi-many


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What about......drum roll......INGRIED? She's definitely not imaginary. And you should be careful. Perhaps you don't know everyone's names and nicknames.



Country Bumpkins said:


> We don't care if you have imaginary friends.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would say 'more real,' but that's just me. Onward!



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks, but my friends are just as real as you are.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you mean you will only live in a society that chooses your religion?


I did say that didn't I? I meant to say without the freedom to choose my own religion. You caught me!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes there were attacks during the Bush Administration. Did you also notice these were blamed on terrorists, There were no lies about any being blamed on a movie, when the administration new within a few hours that terrorists were responsible.


Ignored.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I like to think that I try hard to get everyone to use their critical thinking processes (if they have any) in intelligent discussions.
> 
> I will go as high or low as required. I only seem to meet you on the low end.


No sorry, you do not think, your above comment is condescending, I I I I I I I I I I I

And you do meet people on the low end, because that is where you wallow and lurk. Even with my long arms, I could not reach down your pit far enough to get close to you.

Who in their right mind would want to have a conversation with such a self centered narcissist?

After watching the Obama press conference I noticed he said he was outraged. What I did not hear one word from him accepting any responsibility for the problems within his administration. Not one. This gives him maybe 12 hours until all the emails his administration released at 6 PM will comment on those


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> What about......drum roll......INGRIED? She's definitely not imaginary. And you should be careful. Perhaps you don't know everyone's names and nicknames.


I COULD careless! When have I been frightened?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country, she is trying to change the topic away from the three major scandals in DC.

She and her imaginary friend are totally irrelevant, and not worth responding to the bait. The important thing is to learn the truth about Benghazi, The IRS, and the reason why 100 reporters' cell and home phone records were snatched. (Did you notice that even with such an intrusive probe, a leak was still not found or mentioned?)


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Country, she is trying to change the topic away from the three major scandals in DC.
> 
> She and her imaginary friend are totally irrelevant, and not worth responding to the bait. The important thing is to learn the truth about Benghazi, The IRS, and the reason why 100 reporters' cell and home phone records were snatched. (Did you notice that even with such an intrusive probe, a leak was still not found or mentioned?)[/quote :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Country, she is trying to change the topic away from the three major scandals in DC.
> 
> She and her imaginary friend are totally irrelevant, and not worth responding to the bait. The important thing is to learn the truth about Benghazi, The IRS, and the reason why 100 reporters' cell and home phone records were snatched. (Did you notice that even with such an intrusive probe, a leak was still not found or mentioned?)


Boy are you wrong! John McCain new about the leak last year and DEMANDED that an investigation be orchestrated. So an investigation was implemented and no the Repubs are screaming bloody murder.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Who was the leak?

I should have said "the person responsible for the leak has not been mentioned" So you can parse my words, but the reality is that after 100 reporters and their family and friends had their phone records combed through without any results.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Who was the leak?
> 
> I should have said "the person responsible for the leak has not been mentioned" So you can parse my words, but the reality is that after 100 reporters and their family and friends had their phone records combed through without any results.


It is still an ongoing investigation and it did pose a threat to our national security. 
Did you see Eric Holder smack Issa down? It was a classic!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I really wonder if any read the newspapers or watch tv. Did you watch C Span and Holder. Did you see 100 email's release by the White House. Notice not many but enough to throw Hilary under the Bus. 

Did you watch the 5 min. speech by the President? Or did you watch Careys press conference. Well he was also thrown under the bus. He was caught today with emails proving he lied. 

Now even the news media is seeing what can happen to them too.

Oh thats right ignore.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I hope the lies/evidence/emails/whatever go straight up to the top to Barak - where they belong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I hope the lies/evidence/emails/whatever go straight up to the top to Barak - where they belong.


But you don't know that. That is exactly what the republicans want, but first he has to be found guilty of having his hands in these 3 wastes of time and taxpayer's money.
If they fail at these 3 they will keep looking for things that aren't there and blame him anyway.
I don't know how Darrell Issa will juggle 3 congressional hearings at once. He's already showing egg on his face and losing his cool.
Even worse is John Boehner ranting that people should be in jail, before the IG report even came back. The Witch Hunt goes on and on.....


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I think Barak won't be blamed for anything. He will get away with his lies once again.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I think Barak won't be blamed for anything. He will get away with his lies once again.


The question is Are the lies his?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Where have I been a hypocrite? You addressed my post so you must be talking to me. I can only hold myself accountable. I can not speak for the actions of anyone else.


CB
I was not calling you a hypocrite. I addressed your post because I wanted to add that other people besides Christians can be and are loving, caring people. I don't like hypocrites---like people who are in Christian marriages having affairs while their wives are in the hospital suffering from cancer or on chemo---and I don't care which political party they belong to. I did not mean to offend you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am sick to death of the republicans continuing their diversionary tactics instead of working in Congress to get problems solved. They latch on to everything except trying to come with laws that'll put this country into "high gear.' What they're doing is totally counterproductive. They're busy slamming the president with every breath they have rather than doing something constructive. They're digging up things the republicans themselves have done in the past which went without a peep of criticism. Make a big to-do out of Benghazi, but not a word about the 15 to 20 attacks on embassies and consulates during the Shrub administration. It's OK to delve into the workings of the IRS vs. Conservative groups, but gloss over the dealings with the NAACP. It's the old double standard, and the witch hunt is being waged against Obama and Hillary to do nothing but discredit them. They have politicized everything imaginable instead of doing their jobs in Congress. The hatred against Obama is the driving force, and say what you will, but the fact that a black man is living in the White House galls them to no end. [quote/]
> 
> The problem with even trying to read what you say is your name calling (shrub) and your racist attacks.
> 
> ...


Baloney! I had to call Bush "shrub" to make one of you respond and to check to see if you read anything in its totality. You don't like what I have to say, but this whole business of the House wasting my taxpayer dollars on c--p to try to get Obama impeached makes me puke. I'm taking writing lessons from your side now. Don't forget, impeachment doesn't get him out of office. The only one of the trumped up charges that has me concerned is the AP charge. I value the first amendment. The other two "scandals" are not.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> CB
> I was not calling you a hypocrite. I addressed your post because I wanted to add that other people besides Christians can be and are loving, caring people. I don't like hypocrites---like people who are in Christian marriages having affairs while their wives are in the hospital suffering from cancer or on chemo---and I don't care which political party they belong to. I did not mean to offend you.


Thanks Andrea. I don't like hypocrites either. I agree with you. But we are human and not perfect. Christians are just different because we know we are sinners and ask for forgiveness. I don't know why everyone hates Christians we know we are not perfect . Yes I didn't explain myself better. I know that other people can love and help besides Christian. Thank you for setting it straight in the open.XXX


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Thanks Andrea. I don't like hypocrites either. I agree with you. But we are human and not perfect. Christians are just different because we know we are sinners and ask for forgiveness. I don't know why everyone hates Christians we know we are not perfect . Yes I didn't explain myself better. I know that other people can love and help besides Christian. Thank you for setting it straight in the open.XXX


Certain christians are intolerant of any other religion and I get that from some christians on this site. Does asking for forgiveness give christians the permission to continue acting in the manner they asked forgiveness for? I read a lot of posts that appear to be worthy of asking for forgiveness and then some posts later the same behavior.

Name calling of past and present presidents....let's think, is using the term shrub any more disrespectful than ob, the liar, the idiot in the white house etc that some use here? Maybe you personally have not used those terms (I am not going to go through countless posts to find out), but it is a type of name calling none the less.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Certain christians are intolerant of any other religion and I get that from some christians on this site. Does asking for forgiveness give christians the permission to continue acting in the manner they asked forgiveness for? I read a lot of posts that appear to be worthy of asking for forgiveness and then some posts later the same behavior.
> 
> Name calling of past and present presidents....let's think, is using the term shrub any more disrespectful than ob, the liar, the idiot in the white house etc that some use here? Maybe you personally have not used those terms (I am not going to go through countless posts to find out), but it is a type of name calling none the less.


I have never called the president a name I only call him o. Have you ever seen me call anyone names? No. I ask Jesus to forgive me of all my sins. If I feel like I hurt someone I will ask forgiveness from them. I have no problem with that. I can't answer for anyone but myself.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Certain christians are intolerant of any other religion and I get that from some christians on this site. Does asking for forgiveness give christians the permission to continue acting in the manner they asked forgiveness for? I read a lot of posts that appear to be worthy of asking for forgiveness and then some posts later the same behavior.
> 
> Name calling of past and present presidents....let's think, is using the term shrub any more disrespectful than ob, the liar, the idiot in the white house etc that some use here? Maybe you personally have not used those terms (I am not going to go through countless posts to find out), but it is a type of name calling none the less.


peacegoddess - I may be wrong but it is my understanding that once a christian is "saved" they have a get out of jail free card. So if you believe Jesus died for your sins you have no worries. It's a pretty good deal and I guess, yes you can go out hurt someone then say you are sorry and go back out there and do it again and again. So saying awful things about people that may or may not be true is no problem either or ruining someone's reputation as people are trying to do to Obama. I would think breaking all of the 10 commandments would be OK with this kind of logic.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Baloney! I had to call Bush "shrub" to make one of you respond and to check to see if you read anything in its totality. You don't like what I have to say, but this whole business of the House wasting my taxpayer dollars on c--p to try to get Obama impeached makes me puke. I'm taking writing lessons from your side now. Don't forget, impeachment doesn't get him out of office. The only one of the trumped up charges that has me concerned is the AP charge. I value the first amendment. The other two "scandals" are not.

No you did not have to be disrespectful to get my attention. In fact when you talk in such a childish way I tend to find the rest of your content irrelevant and minimizes anything you say.

The AP is not a trumped up charge, if I was wrong they would not be up in arms about it.

Benghazi's truth will come out. Especially now when about 90 emails were released today regarding the talking points and how they were changed. Might seem trite to you, but if he lied about something so simple, what else is he hiding? What was he doing the night of the attack? What does he have to hide? Why did he lie about the video being the reason for murdering 4 Americans? 

IRS, those actions were criminal and an abuse of power. The IRS is not to be trusted overseeing Obamacare, if it can't even do a proper job of granting charity status to conservative groups but fast tracks Obama's stepbrothers questionable charity.

So much for transparency, another lie.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, one of the most important tenets of Christianity is that the only way to practice their religion is the belief that Jesus is the Way to Salvation, and that God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are the only attributes of the one, true God. Why bother to criticize Christian belief when there are thousands of other belief systems that have the same beliefs about their religions? 

There's a hymn I like called "You Must Come in at the Door" that says what I'm trying to say far better than I can. Check out Youtube for Doc Watson singing it. Take a listen to the way he sings "Amazing Gracce" while you're at it. too. Doc is the only reason I can stand to listen to "Amasing Grace" because he sings it from the tradition it originally came from.

I've read a great many of your posts. I have no reason to believe that you will do as I suggest as taking a sugestion from someone who disagrees with you is something you'd rather not do.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Peacegoddess, one of the most important tenets of Christianity is that the only way to practice their religion is the belief that Jesus is the Way to Salvation, and that God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, are the only attributes of the one, true God. Why bother to criticize Christian belief when there are thousands of other belief systems that have the same beliefs about their religions?
> 
> There's a hymn I like called "You Must Come in at the Door" that says what I'm trying to say far better than I can. Check out Youtube for Doc Watson singing it. Take a listen to the way he sings "Amazing Gracce" while you're at it. too. Doc is the only reason I can stand to listen to "Amasing Grace" because he sings it from the tradition it originally came from.
> 
> I've read a great many of your posts. I have no reason to believe that you will do as I suggest as taking a sugestion from someone who disagrees with you is something you'd rather not do.


Go girl! :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Baloney! I had to call Bush "shrub" to make one of you respond and to check to see if you read anything in its totality. You don't like what I have to say, but this whole business of the House wasting my taxpayer dollars on c--p to try to get Obama impeached makes me puke. I'm taking writing lessons from your side now. Don't forget, impeachment doesn't get him out of office. The only one of the trumped up charges that has me concerned is the AP charge. I value the first amendment. The other two "scandals" are not.
> 
> No you did not have to be disrespectful to get my attention. In fact when you talk in such a childish way I tend to find the rest of your content irrelevant and minimizes anything you say.
> 
> ...


What he was doing on the night of the attack is of no subsequence. He couldn't have stopped it. He didn't come with a magic wand. Why do you think he has anything to hide?
You are waiting at the tree with a noose, but nobody to hang.
So now his step brothers are part of the scheme?
Do you think it was Obama who instructed the IRS to do what they did?
Benghazi is a life preserver for republicans which is sinking at a rapid pace. It's been overdone for too long. Yes, it is tragic that 4 people died.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

It is the proselytizing of christians that offends me and which I consider insulting and disrespectful of other religions. So full of arrogance and disrespect for others beliefs. I have never understood the need to convert and convince others. And please do not take this as an invitation to continue the offers. I will end any further comments as I think I have explained myself well enough.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What he was doing on the night of the attack is of no subsequence. He couldn't have stopped it. He didn't come with a magic wand. Why do you think he has anything to hide?
> You are waiting at the tree with a noose, but nobody to hang.
> So now his step brothers are part of the scheme?
> Do you think it was Obama who instructed the IRS to do what they did?
> Benghazi is a life preserver for republicans which is sinking at a rapid pace. It's been overdone for too long. Yes, it is tragic that 4 people died.


It is known that 20 of the 30 people in Benghazi were with CIA including the two seals. Only 10 were State Department. The CIA was calling the shots at the consulate not the State Department. It's not the first time the CIA has hidden in embassies and consulates to carry out their work. It sounds like the location was being used to move weapons. Pointing the finger at anyone may never be done as a matter of National Security. When people scream for the facts they are looking at the situation from a very simplistic view. Our country is involved in a lot of covert activities world wide and depending on the situation the safety of Americans involved be they CIA, military, State Dept, FBI they can't always come out publicly and say what they are doing. I'm all for full disclosure but there are times when it is not possible. All the right wants is Obama and Clinton hung out to dry. They may very well be covering up for Patraeus. I would think even the right would understand sometimes no explanations can be forthcoming.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It is the proselytizing of christians that offends me and which I consider insulting and disrespectful of other religions. So full of arrogance and disrespect for others beliefs. I have never understood the need to convert and convince others. And please do not take this as an invitation to continue the offers. I will end any further comments as I think I have explained myself well enough.


I only addressed you because you were critizing Christians. You called me out when you started slinging mud about Christians judging. You also come to the Christian conservative site talking to us. Sooooo....... I never said anything about anyones religion. You are the one . So who is the arrogant , disrespectful one? The door is still open for you tho. God loves sinners.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I only addressed you because you were critizing Christians. You called me out when you started slinging mud about Christians judging. You also come to the Christian conservative site talking to us. Sooooo....... I never said anything about anyones religion. You are the one . So who is the arrogant , disrespectful one? The door is still open for you tho. God loves sinners.


CB what do you believe happens to the millions of people who lived on the earth before Jesus time. Also, what happens to all the people today and in the future who are not christians. Is god so unkind that he would not love them too?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

God loves everyone.If they believed in God they were righteous before Jesus died. They were under the law. When they died they went to paradise. When Jesus died and went to hell to take the keys of death and hell away from Satan the righteous followed Him out of paradise. After the death of Jesus and his resurrection we are under Grace. Faith and believing in Him and asking for forgiveness for our sins . God loves everyone. He gave Jesus for everyones sins. It is up to everyone to accept or deny Him. Free will to choose. Does that answer your question?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Strike 1- IRS wrong doings were not linked to the White House
but to inneffective management of IRS workers.

Strike 2- Emails requested from White House showed no
interference from the White House regarding the
changing of the "talking points". Obama didn't lie.

Strike 3- Tune in!

So Republicans are batting 0. Even Billo "the Clown" O'Reilly
said that the far right is going too far in these 'scandals.
Yes, he did choke that out.

No Baloney!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I only addressed you because you were critizing Christians. You called me out when you started slinging mud about Christians judging. You also come to the Christian conservative site talking to us. Sooooo....... I never said anything about anyones religion. You are the one . So who is the arrogant , disrespectful one? The door is still open for you tho. God loves sinners.


This site is full of disrespect for other's beliefs. Also this site is not titled "christian conservatives". Maybe you want to change it. Almost every answer to any post ends in an expression of conservative christian pronouncements on politics and social issues. It is the arrogant attitude that christian belief tops any other belief. Also the attitude that others hate christians do not flatter yourselves so much. I do not want or care for the love of your god.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Baloney! I had to call Bush "shrub" to make one of you respond and to check to see if you read anything in its totality. You don't like what I have to say, but this whole business of the House wasting my taxpayer dollars on c--p to try to get Obama impeached makes me puke. I'm taking writing lessons from your side now. Don't forget, impeachment doesn't get him out of office. The only one of the trumped up charges that has me concerned is the AP charge. I value the first amendment. The other two "scandals" are not.
> 
> No you did not have to be disrespectful to get my attention. In fact when you talk in such a childish way I tend to find the rest of your content irrelevant and minimizes anything you say.
> 
> ...


Read carefully. The AP charge is the only one that concerns me. The other two "scandals" I don't believe are "wrong-doings."
In my opinion the IRS ought to be targeting many more groups that profess to be non-profits doing "social goodness." The only error here is that they didn't look into all political "social" non-profits who are mostly into politics---all the Heritage Foundation-type organizations. They ought to be looking into some churches, too. The reason the IRS can't keep up with it is that the republicans have seen to it that any government agencies with mandates to regulate or inspect have been thwarted by lack of funds, again republican instigations to make sure that government doesn't have the chance to do its job.
Benghazi is another trumped up charge.
My cookies have to come out of the oven, which is probably a more productive endeavor, by far.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This site is full of disrespect for other's beliefs. Also this site is not titled "christian conservatives". Maybe you want to change it. Almost every answer to any post ends in an expression of conservative christian pronouncements on politics and social issues. It is the arrogant attitude that christian belief tops any other belief. Also the attitude that others hate christians do not flatter yourselves so much. I do not want or care for the love of your god.


Your loss. You will be bowing right beside me one day like it or not. I was talking about Denim and Pearls being a conservative Christian site. You are always there .Freedom of speech and religion. America is One Nation Under God. Even our money says in God We Trust.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Your loss. You will be bowing right beside me one day like it or not. I was talking about Denim and Pearls being a conservative Christian site. You are always there .Freedom of speech and religion. America is One Nation Under God. Even our money says in God We Trust.


Thanks for proving my point.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This site is full of disrespect for other's beliefs.


 And you are leading the charge. You should be ashamed but I know you're not. You have no shame, none at all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is known that 20 of the 30 people in Benghazi were with CIA including the two seals. Only 10 were State Department. The CIA was calling the shots at the consulate not the State Department. It's not the first time the CIA has hidden in embassies and consulates to carry out their work. It sounds like the location was being used to move weapons. Pointing the finger at anyone may never be done as a matter of National Security. When people scream for the facts they are looking at the situation from a very simplistic view. Our country is involved in a lot of covert activities world wide and depending on the situation the safety of Americans involved be they CIA, military, State Dept, FBI they can't always come out publicly and say what they are doing. I'm all for full disclosure but there are times when it is not possible. All the right wants is Obama and Clinton hung out to dry. They may very well be covering up for Patraeus. I would think even the right would understand sometimes no explanations can be forthcoming.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Re: AP events seem quite similar to me to the charges of Rupert Murdoch's group intercepting emails and phone calls. I understand that this can undercut freedom of the press, and many other things we hold dear. It will get more convoluted before it becomes more clear.



alcameron said:


> Read carefully. The AP charge is the only one that concerns me. The other two "scandals" I don't believe are "wrong-doings."
> In my opinion the IRS ought to be targeting many more groups that profess to be non-profits doing "social goodness." The only error here is that they didn't look into all political "social" non-profits who are mostly into politics---all the Heritage Foundation-type organizations. They ought to be looking into some churches, too. The reason the IRS can't keep up with it is that the republicans have seen to it that any government agencies with mandates to regulate or inspect have been thwarted by lack of funds, again republican instigations to make sure that government doesn't have the chance to do its job.
> Benghazi is another trumped up charge.
> My cookies have to come out of the oven, which is probably a more productive endeavor, by far.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Go girl! :thumbup:


You bet I'll go.:thumbup: The lefties can't understand that I have a wide range of beliefs going from a very liberal point to a very conservative one. Sometimes the righties don't understand this either, but, overall, I have found more acceptance from the Christian folks, whatever topics they post in.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You bet I'll go.:thumbup: The lefties can't understand that I have a wide range of beliefs going from a very liberal point to a very conservative one. Sometimes the righties don't understand this either, but, overall, I have found more acceptance from the Christian folks, whatever topics they post in.


 :lol:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> God loves everyone.If they believed in God they were righteous before Jesus died. They were under the law. When they died they went to paradise. When Jesus died and went to hell to take the keys of death and hell away from Satan the righteous followed Him out of paradise. After the death of Jesus and his resurrection we are under Grace. Faith and believing in Him and asking for forgiveness for our sins . God loves everyone. He gave Jesus for everyones sins. It is up to everyone to accept or deny Him. Free will to choose. Does that answer your question?


Yes, thank you CB.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What he was doing on the night of the attack is of no subsequence. He couldn't have stopped it. He didn't come with a magic wand. Why do you think he has anything to hide?
> You are waiting at the tree with a noose, but nobody to hang.
> So now his step brothers are part of the scheme?
> Do you think it was Obama who instructed the IRS to do what they did?
> Benghazi is a life preserver for republicans which is sinking at a rapid pace. It's been overdone for too long. Yes, it is tragic that 4 people died.


What he was doing at the White House was nothing. If he has nothing to hide, why not tell Americans what he was doing? What is he ashamed of not doing or doing? Not organizing rapid rescue, not securing other embassies or even showing any concern. During the killing of OBL he had photos showing his concern. So he cared more about killing OBL, but could care less about the killing of Americans and the wounding of others

He is responsible for the IRS. Doesn't the buck stop at his desk? Steve Miller is really not resigning. He had planned on leaving in June, and will stay on the job until then. So Obama left the American people with the impression that his resignation was effective immediately, why was that? Again smoke and mirrors. Steve Miller was not even there during this time, he is a false fall guy.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> God loves everyone.If they believed in God they were righteous before Jesus died. They were under the law. When they died they went to paradise. When Jesus died and went to hell to take the keys of death and hell away from Satan the righteous followed Him out of paradise. After the death of Jesus and his resurrection we are under Grace. Faith and believing in Him and asking for forgiveness for our sins . God loves everyone. He gave Jesus for everyones sins. It is up to everyone to accept or deny Him. Free will to choose. Does that answer your question?


Quite the fairytale. If He loved sinners so much, then they can go right on sinning, asking for forgiveness, being forgiven and go right back to sinning. Isn't that what we are seeing in this country right now? Hypocrisy at its best.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Your loss. You will be bowing right beside me one day like it or not. I was talking about Denim and Pearls being a conservative Christian site. You are always there .Freedom of speech and religion. America is One Nation Under God. Even our money says in God We Trust.


Just words. Unnecessary, no meaning. who's G-d?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You bet I'll go.:thumbup: The lefties can't understand that I have a wide range of beliefs going from a very liberal point to a very conservative one. Sometimes the righties don't understand this either, but, overall, I have found more acceptance from the Christian folks, whatever topics they post in.


You are amorphic. Chameleon like. do you not have any of your own ideas or philosophy?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OK, off.

1. The President of the United States of America is not required to tell everyone what he is doing every moment. He is a busy man and also deserves some privacy. Your rant makes you look foolish. Think before you write.

2. You are punishing all in the Administration without any semblance of truth. Save it. It's not working here....or anywhere else. Why are you doing it? I think we know the answers to that, and it doesn't make you look good.



off2knit said:


> What he was doing at the White House was nothing. If he has nothing to hide, why not tell Americans what he was doing? What is he ashamed of not doing or doing? Not organizing rapid rescue, not securing other embassies or even showing any concern. During the killing of OBL he had photos showing his concern. So he cared more about killing OBL, but could care less about the killing of Americans and the wounding of others
> 
> He is responsible for the IRS. Doesn't the buck stop at his desk? Steve Miller is really not resigning. He had planned on leaving in June, and will stay on the job until then. So Obama left the American people with the impression that his resignation was effective immediately, why was that? Again smoke and mirrors. Steve Miller was not even there during this time, he is a false fall guy.


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> OK, off.
> 
> 1. The President of the United States of America is not required to tell everyone what he is doing every moment. He is a busy man and also deserves some privacy. Your rant makes you look foolish. Think before you write.
> 
> ...


1. We do have the right to know what he was doing during a time of crisis. We do have a right to know what he did or did not do to save American lives. We get pictures of him all the time at parties, galas, golf outings..... which has nothing to do with a national crisis,so why hide what he was doing during one? Is he more proud of his dancing and singing abilities than his ability to be a leader, defender of the Constitution and Commander In Chief? As Commander In Chief he has a responsibility to defend American during attacks.

2. Not blaming the entire Administration, so saying that does not make you look good. I am blaming him for his lack of executive abilities regarding management of his Administration.

Also, during his press conference last night he expressed outrage, I would hope so. But what I did not hear is one word about him taking responsibility for what went on in his Administration. He took no responsibility for his lack of leadership or poor choices in administrative appointees.

I also find it very odd that there appeared to be a coordinated effort to flood the airwaves with partial document dumps, holding a press conference and having Eric Holder hold a news conference all within the same hour.

I also find it odd that during his press conference he said that he asked for, received, and accepted the temporary IRS' head administrator's resignation. Big deal. He was going to leave after Memorial Day anyway, and he will be in that job until then. So he gets on camera and accomplishes what? Nothing. The only thing he said is that there will be more regulations. We don't need more regulations, we need enforcement of the ones we already have now.

If he would only be as transparent as he promised, put everything out on the table to be viewed, admit mistakes and then move on. But the constant trickling out of information, photo ops, lies by Carney.......only leave the American public with a lack of confidence in this president and his administration.

The buck stops at his desk, so show us the money.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Does anyone remember My Pet Goat? Now there was a tragedy with no outrage from the masses on the right.
Once again, republicans are running their mouths and spinning their dreams. They're looking for the "I" word and want the black man gone.
Yes, I know, nobody in that group is a racist, are they? Please don't answer.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Does anyone remember My Pet Goat? Now there was a tragedy with no outrage from the masses on the right.


Why should they have complained? It showed at least that the man was literate.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Every time you call him black, it is a racist statement. He is a human being nothing else. Quite complaining about others.


Complain about others? I have read endless diatribes from the conservative side complaining about every single thing Obama has tried to do and all the things he didn't do. The outrage from the neocons about not being racist Means something. You doth protest too much.
Your response makes me laugh! You're all such kind, gentle souls!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why should they have complained? It showed at least that the man was literate.


Barely


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> 1. We do have the right to know what he was doing during a time of crisis. We do have a right to know what he did or did not do to save American lives. We get pictures of him all the time at parties, galas, golf outings..... which has nothing to do with a national crisis,so why hide what he was doing during one? Is he more proud of his dancing and singing abilities than his ability to be a leader, defender of the Constitution and Commander In Chief? As Commander In Chief he has a responsibility to defend American during attacks.
> 
> 2. Not blaming the entire Administration, so saying that does not make you look good. I am blaming him for his lack of executive abilities regarding management of his Administration.
> 
> ...


1. He couldn't have stopped the attack. Hicks said that during his whistleblower testimony. Sorry, but Benghazi is put to rest as far as blaming the President goes.

2.Yes, he did fire the commissioner of the IRS. The regulations you mention are for the IRS, not for you. In this case, the IRS needs new laws to follow and guatanteed implementation of them., and to follow the laws they already have within the Treasury Dept. If you had been really listening, you would have heard that. Keep in mind that these practices have been going on since 1959. Obama said there would be continuing investigation into this.

3. You all wanted the emails and Holder. So you got them. Unfortunately for you, the emails did not implicate Obama. No lies there. The CIA can not be transparent . Covert operations are just that. That's why you may never really know why the CIA wanted it kept quiet.
Holder testified for 4 hours yesterday, answering the same questions over and over again.

4. Not all of the American people feel the way you do. Most Americans want this ridiculous witch hunt stopped so that congress can work on more important things that need to be done like legislation for which they are paid by the taxpayers to do.
So far the Tea party repubs have 2 strikes andi s batting 0.
and for what? To stop this president from doing his job. You want leadership? Write your representatives and tell them to stop wasting our time and money by obstructing everything that the President is trying to do and wasting their time trying to find something in order to impeach him.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> 1. He couldn't have stopped the attack. Hicks said that during his whistleblower testimony. Sorry, but Benghazi is put to rest as far as blaming the President goes.
> 
> 2.Yes, he did fire the commissioner of the IRS. The regulations you mention are for the IRS, not for you. In this case, the IRS needs new laws to follow and guatanteed implementation of them., and to follow the laws they already have within the Treasury Dept. If you had been really listening, you would have heard that. Keep in mind that these practices have been going on since 1959. Obama said there would be continuing investigation into this.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Has anyone read anything about Darrell Issa's less-than-stellar background? That he should be grilling anyone is a joke. Google him. Find out about his glorious background of car theft, lobbying, his deeds with Blackwater, alliance with Wall Street and Goldman-Sachs, and his questionable support of the K Street "family." What a guy!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Has anyone read anything about Darrell Issa's less-than-stellar background? That he should be grilling anyone is a joke. Google him. Find out about his glorious background of car theft, lobbying, his deeds with Blackwater, alliance with Wall Street and Goldman-Sachs, and his questionable support of the K Street "family." What a guy!


I will do that!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I will do that!


Here's a start

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/15/1209435/-Darrell-Issa-Bully-Thief-Oversight-Chairman


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Here's a start
> 
> http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/05/15/1209435/-Darrell-Issa-Bully-Thief-Oversight-Chairman


I read the npr site regarding this. It amazes me how an arsonist and a thief could be running these witch hunts.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I read the npr site regarding this. It amazes me how an arsonist and a thief could be running these witch hunts.


Agree--this guy's personal history is unbelievable. Love how when he wasn't stealing cars he was designing elaborate alarms to safeguard them. Guess he considered those forays into auto theft a form of on-the-job training.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

What does it have to do with what Issa was ? It is about 4 of our Americans being murdered.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What does it have to do with what Issa was ? It is about 4 of our Americans being murdered.


We are saying that this man has no room to point fingers at anybody for wrong doings if they exist.

Benghazi is done. Unless issa wants to go after the CIA.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What does it have to do with what Issa was ? It is about 4 of our Americans being murdered.


He has a lot of misdeeds in his background, and his main function is to get Obama at any cost. He has less concern for dead Americans than for making up a political scandal. Reading his history validates how insincere I believe he is.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> He has a lot of misdeeds in his background, and his main function is to get Obama at any cost. He has less concern for dead Americans than for making up a political scandal. Reading his history validates how insincere I believe he is.


will do read it I mean.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Just words. Unnecessary, no meaning. who's G-d?


But what if you are wrong? 50/50 chance . Eternity is a long time.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> But what if you are wrong? 50/50 chance . Eternity is a long time.


not if one continues to use his name in as away to swear.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> He has a lot of misdeeds in his background, and his main function is to get Obama at any cost. He has less concern for dead Americans than for making up a political scandal. Reading his history validates how insincere I believe he is.


Oh, I believe he's quite sincere. And no one is more qualified to start a political conflagration than guy who already knows how to splash gasoline and strike matches.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What does it have to do with what Issa was ? It is about 4 of our Americans being murdered.


This guy has no business being a member of Congress. Period. He's a criminal.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That seems to be the new criteria for Republican candidates.
Look at Sanford.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Could it be that IRS agents were genuinely concerned by possible misuse of the code for that section?
> 
> We'll see how it all shakes out.


Not genuinely concerned when 7 Democratic Senators wrote a letter to the IRS and pressured the IRS to target the Tea Party groups and other groups that had differing political views. This was in 2012. The Senators are Schumer, Bennet, Whitehouse, Merkley, Udall, Shaheen and Franken.

Senators Bacus, Schumer and Shaheen publicly pressured the IRS to target those groups.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not genuinely concerned when 7 Democratic Senators wrote a letter to the IRS and pressured the IRS to target the Tea Party groups and other groups that had differing political views. This was in 2012. The Senators are Schumer, Bennet, Whitehouse, Merkley, Udall, Shaheen and Franken.
> 
> Senators Bacus, Schumer and Shaheen publicly pressured the IRS to target those groups.


Is it the job of the IRS to target groups suspected of seeking tax exempt status under the guise of "social welfare" when they are channeling money to political candidates or causes? ALL groups suspected of claiming tax-exempt status when they are in fact political organizations should be challenged.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> If you have no idea about embassy attacks during the Bush administration here is a link.
> 
> http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/13333916-number-of-embassies-attacked-during-the-bush-years-before-benghazi-many


That article does not address one thing that was absent from those attacks during Bush's admin. That being this administration's obsession with not labeling a terrorist attack a terrorist attack. Instead, they dreamt up a whole scenario about an anti-Muslim video being the cause of the "spontaneous demonstration" getting out of had. They constantly said that the US had nothing to do with the video, even made their own video, at the cost of 70K, to reassure whoever they thought would listen. A whole lot of nonsense to cover up a failed foreign policy proving no one in this administration has a clue about what is going on around them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Get over it. It's the same old whine, solowey.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

off2knit said:


> No sorry, you do not think, your above comment is condescending, I I I I I I I I I I I
> 
> And you do meet people on the low end, because that is where you wallow and lurk. Even with my long arms, I could not reach down your pit far enough to get close to you.
> 
> ...


Faux outrage is more like it. The admin's MO is to state "we/I didn't know, we just heard about it when you did." Please, even Jon Stewart is calling out Obama on this excuse. He found it odd that Obama wouldn't have found out about the IRS and the DOJ seizing journalists' phone records from someone inside the government. Stewart pointed out that Obama said the same thing about Fast and Furious and about the low flying plane over NYC a few years ago. (The plane was flying low for a photo op.) Stewart joked that "I wouldn't be surprised if President Obama learned Osama bin Laden had been killed when he saw himself announce it on television". :thumbup:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That article does not address one thing that was absent from those attacks during Bush's admin. That being this administration's obsession with not labeling a terrorist attack a terrorist attack. Instead, they dreamt up a whole scenario about an anti-Muslim video being the cause of the "spontaneous demonstration" getting out of had. They constantly said that the US had nothing to do with the video, even made their own video, at the cost of 70K, to reassure whoever they thought would listen. A whole lot of nonsense to cover up a failed foreign policy proving no one in this administration has a clue about what is going on around them.


No dice.

The CIA wrote the original draft of the talking points, then removed references to Al Quaida and played up the role of the demonstrations in Cairo--all without any encouragement from the White House.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What he was doing on the night of the attack is of no subsequence. He couldn't have stopped it. He didn't come with a magic wand. Why do you think he has anything to hide?
> You are waiting at the tree with a noose, but nobody to hang.
> So now his step brothers are part of the scheme?
> Do you think it was Obama who instructed the IRS to do what they did?
> Benghazi is a life preserver for republicans which is sinking at a rapid pace. It's been overdone for too long. Yes, it is tragic that 4 people died.


No he couldn't have stopped it, but he could have shown at least some interest in the fact that our consulate was being attacked. He had one meeting at 5PM and was not heard from again until after the attack.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Anthony Weiner- just a plain sick man that wants to be mayor 
of NYC

Marian Berry- Coke head and more

Bill Clinton- disbarred, fined and adulterous sex addict.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No he couldn't have stopped it, but he could have shown at least some interest in the fact that our consulate was being attacked. He had one meeting at 5PM and was not heard from again until after the attack.


Keep blowing, solowey--your Party's future depends on it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Is it the job of the IRS to target groups suspected of seeking tax exempt status under the guise of "social welfare" when they are channeling money to political candidates or causes? ALL groups suspected of claiming tax-exempt status when they are in fact political organizations should be challenged.


So why were no liberal groups challenged?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Keep blowing, solowey--your Party's future depends on it.[/quote
> 
> An honest question, who are the up and coming Democrats, if Hillary doesn't run, that of course leaves Joe Biden, but if not those two who then?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Patrick Duvall, Martin O'Malley to name a couple


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So why were no liberal groups challenged?


There were liberal groups targeted. Google it


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Patrick Duvall, Martin O'Malley to name a couple


thank you, I know who Patrick Duvall is, will have to research Martin O'Malley


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Faux outrage is more like it. The admin's MO is to state "we/I didn't know, we just heard about it when you did." Please, even Jon Stewart is calling out Obama on this excuse. He found it odd that Obama wouldn't have found out about the IRS and the DOJ seizing journalists' phone records from someone inside the government. Stewart pointed out that Obama said the same thing about Fast and Furious and about the low flying plane over NYC a few years ago. (The plane was flying low for a photo op.) Stewart joked that "I wouldn't be surprised if President Obama learned Osama bin Laden had been killed when he saw himself announce it on television". :thumbup:


And what makes Stewart an authority on this? Just another talk show host.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Anthony Weiner- just a plain sick man that wants to be mayor
> of NYC
> 
> Marian Berry- Coke head and more
> ...


Those people do not hold office. We are talking about the hoods that are in congress now.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And what makes Stewart an authority on this? Just another talk show host.


Never said he was an authority on anything. I liked the way he called Obama out on his excuses. It's time for Obama to take responsibility for what is happening during his administration. Stewart sees it that way also.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Those people do not hold office. We are talking about the hoods that are in congress now.


No, one is adored by libs and would run if he could

One wants to run

One is on DC council


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So why were no liberal groups challenged?


Read again. I said that ALL groups seeking tax-exempt status should be challenged. I did not defend targeting conservative groups. I would like it if they challenged the tax-exempt status of some churches, too. I've said this at least twice. I have no fear of having liberal groups challenged as well, but there aren't enough people employed to do the job. Also, the groups are not putting their applications in to be classified as "social welfare" entities in a timely fashion, so they're being examined two and three years after they've been set up--kind of like asking for permission after the fact.
As an aside, I think if you did a search you'd find a lot more conservative groups than progressive groups in existence.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Anthony Weiner- just a plain sick man that wants to be mayor
> of NYC
> 
> Marian Berry- Coke head and more
> ...


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Never said he was an authority on anything. I liked the way he called Obama out on his excuses. It's time for Obama to take responsibility for what is happening during his administration. Stewart sees it that way also.


But pres. Obama did go on the Jon Stewart show on Oct. 18, 2012 and that wasn't his only appearance.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/10/28/obama.daily.show/index.html


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Those people do not hold office. We are talking about the hoods that are in congress now.


And the voters who put them there.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What the IRS "scandal" is really about---not having to divulge names of big donors

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/behind-the-i-r-s-mess-a-campaign-finance-scandal/?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130516


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What the IRS "scandal" is really about---not having to divulge names of big donors
> 
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/behind-the-i-r-s-mess-a-campaign-finance-scandal/?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130516


Interesting! Thanks for the link.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Another top IRS official leaving. 
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/second-irs-official-to-leave-after-targeting-scandal.php

An internal IRS memo says Joseph Grant, commissioner of the agencys tax exempt and government entities division, will retire June 3. Grant joins Steven Miller, who was forced to resign as acting IRS commissioner on Wednesday.

As part of his duties, Grant oversaw the IRS division that targeted tea party groups for additional scrutiny when they applied for tax-exempt status.

Grant joined the IRS in 2005.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> What the IRS "scandal" is really about---not having to divulge names of big donors
> 
> http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/05/16/behind-the-i-r-s-mess-a-campaign-finance-scandal/?nl=opinion&emc=edit_ty_20130516


About the author of the article, 
Sorry, although it sounds like a good spin, he could be a little bias.

All Posts by Steven Rattner
Steven Rattner, a long-time Wall Street financier, led the restructuring of the auto industry in 2009 as counselor to the Treasury secretary under the Obama administration. His book Overhaul: An Insiders Account of the Obama Administrations Emergency Rescue of the Auto Industry was published in 2010. He is the chairman of Willett Advisors, the investment arm for Mayor Michael R. Bloombergs personal and philanthropic assets, and the economic analyst for MSNBCs Morning Joe. Follow Steven Rattner at twitter.com/SteveRattner

And even more on the author
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2010/12/30/ex-car-czar-steve-rattner-settles-pay-to-play-scandal/

After more than a year of wrangling, obfuscation and name-calling, Steven Rattner has effectively 'fessed up to having done wrong.
The former car czar and private equity boss today agreed to pay $10 million in restitution to the State of New York, for his role in the state's public pension kickback scandal. He also has agreed to refrain from "appearing in any capacity" before any New York pension fund for the next five years.
This follows Rattner's earlier deal with the SEC, under which he agreed to repay $6.2 million and agree to a two-year ban from the securities industry.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No dice.
> 
> The CIA wrote the original draft of the talking points, then removed references to Al Quaida and played up the role of the demonstrations in Cairo--all without any encouragement from the White House.


"All without encouragement from the White House" - That has to be the biggest bunch of BS spewed from you kool aid drinkers to date. It is Obama's failed foreign policy that he is trying to protect. If he had admitted as much from the beginning and took responsibility, Benghazi would not be an issue.

The same can be said of Clinton and Nixon. Admit what you have done, take responsibility for it and leave it with the American people. Taking responsibility goes a long way towards forgiveness than lying over and over again and expecting people to believe you. Sooner or later the lies will be uncovered.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Never said he was an authority on anything. I liked the way he called Obama out on his excuses. It's time for Obama to take responsibility for what is happening during his administration. Stewart sees it that way also.


He is that way with everyone! He is satirist - it's his job.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> He had one meeting at 5PM and was not heard from again until after the attack.


How do you know he wasn't getting intel during that time period?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> How do you know he wasn't getting intel during that time period?


Leon Panetta testified before congress that they briefed him around 5 and after the meeting, they didn't speak to him again that night


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

You know the libs are in deep sneakers when Bob Beckel on The Five" was upset (rightly so) about how the NAACP and other liberals that call Tea Party (and others) racists because of the IRS crisis. He and I both agree this has nothing to do with race, it has to do with one of the most dangerous and powerful governmental agencies with over reaching, and possibly illegally, practices.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> But what if you are wrong? 50/50 chance . Eternity is a long time.


Who cares?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> "All without encouragement from the White House" - That has to be the biggest bunch of BS spewed from you kool aid drinkers to date. It is Obama's failed foreign policy that he is trying to protect. If he had admitted as much from the beginning and took responsibility, Benghazi would not be an issue.
> 
> The same can be said of Clinton and Nixon. Admit what you have done, take responsibility for it and leave it with the American people. Taking responsibility goes a long way towards forgiveness than lying over and over again and expecting people to believe you. Sooner or later the lies will be uncovered.


Amen.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You know the libs are in deep sneakers when Bob Beckel on The Five" was upset (rightly so) about how the NAACP and other liberals that call Tea Party (and others) racists because of the IRS crisis. He and I both agree this has nothing to do with race, it has to do with one of the most dangerous and powerful governmental agencies with over reaching, and possibly illegally, practices.


I saw that! Go Bob!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> How do you know he wasn't getting intel during that time period?


During the hearings, when bureau chiefs were asked if they had any further contact with Obama, they all said no. If he was in contact with them he would surely know that it was an actual terrorist attack (like everyone else did).


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

blah blah blah



off2knit said:


> 1. We do have the right to know what he was doing during a time of crisis. We do have a right to know what he did or did not do to save American lives. We get pictures of him all the time at parties, galas, golf outings..... which has nothing to do with a national crisis,so why hide what he was doing during one? Is he more proud of his dancing and singing abilities than his ability to be a leader, defender of the Constitution and Commander In Chief? As Commander In Chief he has a responsibility to defend American during attacks.
> 
> 2. Not blaming the entire Administration, so saying that does not make you look good. I am blaming him for his lack of executive abilities regarding management of his Administration.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BRAVO!!!!!


BrattyPatty said:


> 1. He couldn't have stopped the attack. Hicks said that during his whistleblower testimony. Sorry, but Benghazi is put to rest as far as blaming the President goes.
> 
> 2.Yes, he did fire the commissioner of the IRS. The regulations you mention are for the IRS, not for you. In this case, the IRS needs new laws to follow and guatanteed implementation of them., and to follow the laws they already have within the Treasury Dept. If you had been really listening, you would have heard that. Keep in mind that these practices have been going on since 1959. Obama said there would be continuing investigation into this.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You know the libs are in deep sneakers when Bob Beckel on The Five" was upset (rightly so) about how the NAACP and other liberals that call Tea Party (and others) racists because of the IRS crisis. He and I both agree this has nothing to do with race, it has to do with one of the most dangerous and powerful governmental agencies with over reaching, and possibly illegally, practices.


No, what it has to do with is that the large donors to all these conservative "social welfare" groups don't want their names divulged, so they have to drum up a scandal. 
I have never seen a bunch of anti-government people in my 72 years of life. That includes most republican rabble-rousers on this site as well as those nut jobs in the House. They are bound and determined that nothing will get done in the 8 years of Obama's presidency, and that is the biggest crime of them all. Taking the American public on a ride, wasting our money trumping up charges, and not doing what they're paid to do. What a bunch to be proud of. I've seen a lot in my lifetime, but today's neocons take the cake!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Easy peasy. He's a republican! (Nice setup Patty. )



BrattyPatty said:


> I read the npr site regarding this. It amazes me how an arsonist and a thief could be running these witch hunts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Weak try....just like the whole witchhunt.



Country Bumpkins said:


> What does it have to do with what Issa was ? It is about 4 of our Americans being murdered.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And wouldn't you LOVE to see Issa go after the CIA. Will they be calling for investigations of Drones?



BrattyPatty said:


> We are saying that this man has no room to point fingers at anybody for wrong doings if they exist.
> 
> Benghazi is done. Unless issa wants to go after the CIA.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Is it the job of the IRS to target groups suspected of seeking tax exempt status under the guise of "social welfare" when they are channeling money to political candidates or causes? ALL groups suspected of claiming tax-exempt status when they are in fact political organizations should be challenged.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> "All without encouragement from the White House" - That has to be the biggest bunch of BS spewed from you kool aid drinkers to date. It is Obama's failed foreign policy that he is trying to protect. If he had admitted as much from the beginning and took responsibility, Benghazi would not be an issue.
> 
> The same can be said of Clinton and Nixon. Admit what you have done, take responsibility for it and leave it with the American people. Taking responsibility goes a long way towards forgiveness than lying over and over again and expecting people to believe you. Sooner or later the lies will be uncovered.


LOL! Keep wishing solowey. He has been cleared in the Benghazi case. Deal with it. Still want to hang the man, don't you? The emails say it all.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You know the libs are in deep sneakers when Bob Beckel on The Five" was upset (rightly so) about how the NAACP and other liberals that call Tea Party (and others) racists because of the IRS crisis. He and I both agree this has nothing to do with race, it has to do with one of the most dangerous and powerful governmental agencies with over reaching, and possibly illegally, practices.


Paranoia sets in.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we should all remember that Jon Stewart's job is to look for a JOKE.



BrattyPatty said:


> And what makes Stewart an authority on this? Just another talk show host.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> During the hearings, when bureau chiefs were asked if they had any further contact with Obama, they all said no. If he was in contact with them he would surely know that it was an actual terrorist attack (like everyone else did).


He called an act of terror the next day.......so? Still trying to put a noose around the man's neck, solowey?


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Do you know that the IRS is in charge of Obama Care. Think about all the medical records they will have and be able to look threw.. That was on the five today to.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It keeps her from playing in the street.



BrattyPatty said:


> He called an act of terror the next day.......so? Still trying to put a noose around the man's neck, solowey?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Anthony Weiner- just a plain sick man that wants to be mayor
> of NYC
> 
> Marian Berry- Coke head and more
> ...


Do you think jesus would want you to judge them?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Even when the proof is right there in front of their faces, they still barf out the rhetoric. 
It's ridiculous. 
Isn't that convenient that Obamacare was brought up by Bachmann right after the President's speech?
She's under scrutiny for ethics violations regarding her campaign money and payoffs to certain senators of the Republican Party to cover up the theft of a list of voters in Iowa.
so one more corrupt one to add to the list.

And one more thing to add. Bachmann is on the intelligence committee. She should have known what was in the emails that the Repubs made such a big fuss about, but never made it known. Hmmm.. sneaky little wench wouldn't you say?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Even when the proof is right tere in front of their faces, they still barf out the rhetoric.
> It's ridiculous.


And revolting. I think the symbol of the Republican Party should be the pelican rather than the elephant--in mythology the mama birds will nourish their offspring with their lifesblood when necessary. Seems to be the case here--Benghazi is the dying GOP chick and the big dumb clucks hovering over it are clacking their bills in distress.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Even when the proof is right there in front of their faces, they still barf out the rhetoric.
> It's ridiculous.
> Isn't that convenient that Obamacare was brought up by Bachmann right after the President's speech?
> She's under scrutiny for ethics violations regarding her campaign money and payoffs to certain senators of the Republican Party to cover up the theft of a list of voters in Iowa.
> ...


This is an old one, but Bachmann on the Intelligence Committee is a real oxymoron.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Do you know that the IRS is in charge of Obama Care. Think about all the medical records they will have and be able to look threw.. That was on the five today to.


I don't know if this is true, but why would the IRS be interested in my medical records?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I don't know if this is true, but why would the IRS be interested in my medical records?


http://www.cnbc.com/id/100711119

Get ready for the Internal Revenue Service to play a dominant role in health care. When Obamacare takes full effect next year, the agency will enforce most of the laws involved in the reformeven deciding who gets included in the health-care mandate.

"The impact of the IRS on health-care reform is huge," said Paul Hamburger, a partner and employee benefits lawyer at Proskauer.

"Other agencies like Social Security will be checking for mistakes, but the IRS is the key enforcer," Hamburger said. "It's also going to help manage who might get health care."

In its 5-4 ruling last year, the Supreme Court upheld the law's mandate that Americans have health insurance, saying that Congress can enforce the mandate under its taxing authority and through the IRS.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100711119
> 
> Get ready for the Internal Revenue Service to play a dominant role in health care. When Obamacare takes full effect next year, the agency will enforce most of the laws involved in the reformeven deciding who gets included in the health-care mandate.
> 
> ...


http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/05/irs-seizes-medical-records-of-60-million-americans/


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thank you, sjr. I think they'll need a few more employees to do the job.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Another interesting article about person in charge
http://abcnews.go.com/politics/t/blogEntry?id=19197239&ref=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2Fftk0aJ77s1


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Do you think jesus would want you to judge them?


Show some respect when posing a question using the name of Jesus, and not use lower case. No one takes you seriously when you purposely are disrespectful, makes you appear ignorant.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This is an old one, but Bachmann on the Intelligence Committee is a real oxymoron.


Moron being more appropriate! I think she can kiss her congressional seat goodbye. Jim Graves is running a very aggressive campaign against her. With all of her shenanigans in her campaign for Prez, she lost a lot of voter confidence.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Show some respect when posing a question using the name of Jesus, and not use lower case. No one takes you seriously when you purposely are disrespectful, makes you appear ignorant.


Take your own advice on the subject of disrespect.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.independentsentinel.com/2013/05/irs-seizes-medical-records-of-60-million-americans/


I read your link CB and the alleged seizure took place over two years ago in March 2011. What has it got to do with what is going on today. Also, the IRS has to have a Federal warrant in order to seize records from any company. You may want to check this out a little more.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100711119
> 
> Get ready for the Internal Revenue Service to play a dominant role in health care. When Obamacare takes full effect next year, the agency will enforce most of the laws involved in the reformeven deciding who gets included in the health-care mandate.
> 
> ...


I read the link you provided. This is not new information. What bothers you about it?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Another interesting article about person in charge
> http://abcnews.go.com/politics/t/blogEntry?id=19197239&ref=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2Fftk0aJ77s1


Once again, what is the big deal? This is nothing new.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Once again, what is the big deal? This is nothing new.


No, but now that the Benghazi circus tent has collapsed over their heads they have to come up with something new--even when it isn't.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Once again, what is the big deal? This is nothing new.


Really, the person in charge of tax exempt groups from 2009 - 2012 is now in charge of enforcing healthcare laws.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Really, the person in charge of tax exempt groups from 2009 - 2012 is now in charge of enforcing healthcare laws.


That may be subject to change.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> That may be subject to change.


And even if it doesn't--well, after this scandal I think that particular department is going to mind its P's and Q's. Unlike Benghazi this is a serious matter, and heads are going to roll.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> And even if it doesn't--well, after this scandal I think that particular department is going to mind its P's and Q's. Unlike Benghazi this is a serious matter, and heads are going to roll.


As they should!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As they should!


Definitely--the GOP really blew it by playing up the Benghazi thing as much as they did. When you put the two side by side you can see there's no comparison. Lots of Demos are upset by this--myself included.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who added the reference to the video. It was not in any of the talking points released yesterday. Someone had to tell Susan Rice about it. And that is what Obama and Hillary talked about for the next few weeks. It sounds like that info came direct from Obama himself. Therefore, something major was changed from the talking points before SR was on the 5 Sunday shows.
> 
> They have just started the investigation into the cover up. Obama is not out of the woods yet.


You know all of that as a fact? Because that's all news to me.
It's an accusation that Repubs have been using since November.
The White House has been cleared of any interference on the talking points of Benghazi. They can investigate for the next 10 years and the emails will still be the same. Obama didn't lie.
I know how much you want that to be true, joey, but it just isn't.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> They have just started the investigation into the cover up. Obama is not out of the woods yet.


No, not as long as the GOP patty rollers refuse to give up.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is something everyone should. It is an article by the editor of the National Review, a conservative online magazine.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348451/scandal-not-agenda-editors


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is something everyone should. It is an article by the editor of the National Review, a conservative online magazine.
> 
> http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348451/scandal-not-agenda-editors


Wow! A conservative who makes at least a little sense. The GOP should listen to this guy--he's hit the nail right on the head.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Health-Overhaul-House-GOP/2013/05/16/id/504945?s=al&promo_code=13856-1


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Health-Overhaul-House-GOP/2013/05/16/id/504945?s=al&promo_code=13856-1


Attempt #37, right? How much is all this costing us?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Like when you refer to the President of the United States as 'o?'



off2knit said:


> Show some respect when posing a question using the name of Jesus, and not use lower case. No one takes you seriously when you purposely are disrespectful, makes you appear ignorant.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

blah, blah, blah.



joeysomma said:


> Who added the reference to the video. It was not in any of the talking points released yesterday. Someone had to tell Susan Rice about it. And that is what Obama and Hillary talked about for the next few weeks. It sounds like that info came direct from Obama himself. Therefore, something major was changed from the talking points before SR was on the 5 Sunday shows.
> 
> They have just started the investigation into the cover up. Obama is not out of the woods yet.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

New mascot for the libs.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You know what your friend says about stirring the pot, don't you?



joeysomma said:


> Did you read the emails? If you did, Please copy the part of the email that was released yesterday that refers to the video and paste it here. I have not found it. If it was not a part of the emails it must have been added by either Susan Rice, Obama, or Hillary since they were the ones talking about it.
> 
> If you have not, why are you commenting about something you have no direct knowledge of?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you read the emails? If you did, Please copy the part of the email that was released yesterday that refers to the video and paste it here. I have not found it. If it was not a part of the emails it must have been added by either Susan Rice, Obama, or Hillary since they were the ones talking about it.
> 
> If you have not, why are you commenting about something you have no direct knowledge of?


joey, be reasonable. they haven;t been posted on line, but every news channel and magazine has found what I posted.
Here is an article that is non partisan,. I looked it up especially for you.

Follow @slate Log in/RegisterNews & Politics Tech Business Arts Life Health & Science Sports Double X Podcasts Photos Video Slatest Blogs MySlate 99+
1231

HOME / Politics : Who's winning, who's losing, and why. I Was Promised a Cover-Up
The White House Benghazi emails reveal a smoking gun. But it wasnt the one that Republicans set out to find.
By John Dickerson|Posted Thursday, May 16, 2013, at 12:54 PM

The White House Benghazi emails show little evidence of a concerted effort to cover up what happened in Libya last September.



> "I was told there was going to be a cover-up. After reading the 100 pages of emails related to the Benghazi media talking points, Im hard-pressed to find evidence for the most damning accusations against the president and his staff. If they were involved, they were once again leading from behind.
> 
> The most incendiary charge aimed at the president is that, in order to insulate himself in an election year, he and his team made up a fake story about a "spontaneous uprising" in Benghazi and downplayed intelligence that it could have been a premeditated attack by known terrorist organizations. There has been so much spinning from the president and his staff in the aftermath of the attack, this storyline seems possiblewhen the public spin is this bad it is easy to imagine deeper rot. The emails help your imagination along. They destroy the impression left last November by White House spokesman Jay Carney that only a single word was changed in the process, which can get your adrenaline up. But when you pull on the thread in search of evidence for the Big Story, your heartbeat slows. The emails show a lot of CIA and State Department action, but comparatively little White House meddling, and certainly nothing near the level of meddling that would be required to put in the big fix.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.foxnews.com/politics/interactive/2013/05/15/white-house-benghazi-documents/
> 
> They were posted on line within an hour of their release.


Fox news, no wonder I didn't see them. I hate fox news and wouldn't normally bother to look there.
Ok, I still didn't see the video brought up. Or any thing implicating a cover up by Obama. These seem to be between the CIA and State Dept. copy and paste for me where it says Obama lied about the youtube video or instructed Susan Rice to use that talking point from the emails.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you read the emails? If you did, Please copy the part of the email that was released yesterday that refers to the video and paste it here. I have not found it. If it was not a part of the emails it must have been added by either Susan Rice, Obama, or Hillary since they were the ones talking about it.
> 
> If you have not, why are you commenting about something you have no direct knowledge of?


Have you yourself looked at the emails, Joey? Here's the link to one page
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2013/05/the-benghazi-emails-what-do-they-show.php

plus the relevant passage from this CIA-generated version:

The CIA said that [t]he currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in Benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the US embassy in Cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the US consulate and subsequently its annex.

The CIA--rightly or wrongly--tied the events in Benghazi to the demonstrations outside the US embassy in Cairo. And there is no question at all that those particular demonstrations in Egypt were in response to the YouTube trailer, as Rice and others knew perfectly well.

Don't like the way the dots were connected? Fine--take it up with the CIA as they were the ones wielding the pencil.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Beat that dead horse. Can't say you're not persistent. Can say you don't deal in fact.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Beat that dead horse. Can't say you're not persistent. Can say you don't deal in fact.


That's for sure! And that horse doesn't have much left on him.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you noticed in the emails, Ben Rhodes is involved in the talking points. he is part of the administration.
> 
> This is his job description: "Ben Rhodes is Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications and Speechwriting, overseeing President Obamas national security communications, speechwriting, and global engagement."
> 
> Therefore, it sounds like he was the President's representative working on the talking points. He must report to the President. He should have reported the first version and the reasons for the changes. So either he did not tell the President or the President didn't want to know. Something seems to be wrong here.


And if you listened to the news you will find that they changed 1 word. From embassy to consulate. I have been listening to different media outlets regarding this. And outside of Fox, and the Republicans in congress of course, they all agree that there is no tie to Obama in these emails. You can keep digging, but even members of congress agreed. 
The Funny thing here is that these emails were released in Feb and they found nothing then. Then in a grandstand, they demanded them again. Nothing changed the 2nd time around either.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go talk to the CIA.



joeysomma said:


> If you noticed in the emails, Ben Rhodes is involved in the talking points. he is part of the administration.
> 
> This is his job description: "Ben Rhodes is Deputy National Security Advisor for Strategic Communications and Speechwriting, overseeing President Obamas national security communications, speechwriting, and global engagement."
> 
> Therefore, it sounds like he was the President's representative working on the talking points. He must report to the President. He should have reported the first version and the reasons for the changes. So either he did not tell the President or the President didn't want to know. Something seems to be wrong here.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Like when you refer to the President of the United States as 'o?'


Never have. If I did it was a typo. But please show me where I have done it, and I will apologize because that would be disrespectful.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Obama = scorpion

Press core (especially the AP) = the frog

Americans = the river


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Show some respect when posing a question using the name of Jesus, and not use lower case. No one takes you seriously when you purposely are disrespectful, makes you appear ignorant.


Could have been a typo, could have been on purpose. Who's to say? Talking about being ignorant is projection on you part. Besides, I am from the same tribe as Jesus and all he was, was a rabbi. Not the Messiah. As far as m concerned he was no more than a hippie. His words and works have been bastardized by so called Christians. If you followed his tenets you wouldn't be as prejudiced as you are.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The documents are in email form and difficult to read onscreen. As I understand it, they have to be redacted and cleaned up so they can be posted online. (Personal email addresses protected, for example.) Some were available yesterday. I see no reason to distrust summaries by major news. Of course, the 'I see a conspiracy' group are still questioning the events of JFK assassination......

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



BrattyPatty said:


> joey, be reasonable. they haven;t been posted on line, but every news channel and magazine has found what I posted.
> Here is an article that is non partisan,. I looked it up especially for you.
> 
> Follow @slate Log in/RegisterNews & Politics Tech Business Arts Life Health & Science Sports Double X Podcasts Photos Video Slatest Blogs MySlate 99+
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A normal person would find it hard to argue with you. Think about it.



rocky1991 said:


> Could have been a typo, could have been on purpose. Who's to say? Talking about being ignorant is projection on you part. Besides, I am from the same tribe as Jesus and all he was, was a rabbi. Not the Messiah. As far as m concerned he was no more than a hippie. His words and works have been bastardized by so called Christians. If you followed his tenets you wouldn't be as prejudiced as you are.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Could have been a typo, could have been on purpose. Who's to say? Talking about being ignorant is projection on you part. Besides, I am from the same tribe as Jesus and all he was, was a rabbi. Not the Messiah. As far as m concerned he was no more than a hippie. His words and works have been bastardized by so called Christians. If you followed his tenets you wouldn't be as prejudiced as you are.


Show me the post. Better yet, show me all the posts that I did that, if you can't please stop with your faulty accusations.

Regardless, of your belief of Jesus, I know of no Jew that would be disrespectful of a rabbi or a prophet (as some believe). I would never be disrespectful of Buddha, Mohammad or other's spiritual guide. (other than satan, just can't go there, just being honest)


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

One important reason in the selection of the tribe of Judah for our Lord's genealogy is the membership of David in that tribe. Jesus, of course, is David's greater Son, and in the mentions of our Lord's lineage it is usually His descent from David that is the point which is emphasized rather His tribal affiliation per se (e.g., Matt.1:1; 9:27; 22:42; Lk.1:32; 1:69; Rom.1:3; 2Tim.2:8; Rev.22:16; cf. also Rev.5:5 where "from the tribe of Judah" is immediately reinforced by "[from] the root of David"). For Jesus is the "Son of David", the One who fulfills the covenant to that great believer wherein he was promised a Son who would reign forever, the Branch who would spring from his root, namely, the Messiah (cf. 2Sam.7:12-16; Is.9:6-7; Jer.23:5-6).


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Could have been a typo, could have been on purpose. Who's to say? Talking about being ignorant is projection on you part. Besides, I am from the same tribe as Jesus and all he was, was a rabbi. Not the Messiah. As far as m concerned he was no more than a hippie. His words and works have been bastardized by so called Christians. If you followed his tenets you wouldn't be as prejudiced as you are.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=284407491660646

This a 50 year old commerical.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Leon Panetta testified before congress that they briefed him around 5 and after the meeting, they didn't speak to him again that night


"They" didn't but that doesn't mean he wasn't keeping informed by other methods.

Anyone else read an article where the State Dept offered more assistance to Stevens and he declined it, twice? I'll see if I can locate it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> A normal person would find it hard to argue with you. Think about it.


A normal person wouldn't bother. You can't force someone to face truth.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> "They" didn't but that doesn't mean he wasn't keeping informed by other methods.
> 
> Anyone else read an article where the State Dept offered more assistance to Stevens and he declined it, twice? I'll see if I can locate it.


I did, here's the link. A major mistake on Stevens' part, all right.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/foreign-policy/war-terror/us-ambassador-chris-stevens-turned-down-us-military-security


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Show me the post. Better yet, show me all the posts that I did that, if you can't please stop with your faulty accusations.
> 
> Regardless, of your belief of Jesus, I know of no Jew that would be disrespectful of a rabbi or a prophet (as some believe). I would never be disrespectful of Buddha, Mohammad or other's spiritual guide. (other than satan, just can't go there, just being honest)


For someone who's so respectful of all these religious leaders, you lack that same charity when speaking to or of their followers. Let your words and actions display your Christianity. Love thy neighbor.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I did, here's the link. A major mistake on Stevens' part, all right.
> 
> http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/foreign-policy/war-terror/us-ambassador-chris-stevens-turned-down-us-military-security


Yep - that was it. Thank you!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Could have been a typo, could have been on purpose. Who's to say? Talking about being ignorant is projection on you part. Besides, I am from the same tribe as Jesus and all he was, was a rabbi. Not the Messiah. As far as m concerned he was no more than a hippie. His words and works have been bastardized by so called Christians. If you followed his tenets you wouldn't be as prejudiced as you are.


Just a hippie? He was not anti government (Pay Caesar what is Caesar's.....) I am not aware him taking drugs to gain insight such as hallucenagens.

And GW, loving one's neighbor does not mean you don't challenge their tolerate evil or wrong actions. You love them as a Child of God as much as you love yourself


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> One important reason in the selection of the tribe of Judah for our Lord's genealogy is the membership of David in that tribe. Jesus, of course, is David's greater Son, and in the mentions of our Lord's lineage it is usually His descent from David that is the point which is emphasized rather His tribal affiliation per se (e.g., Matt.1:1; 9:27; 22:42; Lk.1:32; 1:69; Rom.1:3; 2Tim.2:8; Rev.22:16; cf. also Rev.5:5 where "from the tribe of Judah" is immediately reinforced by "[from] the root of David"). For Jesus is the "Son of David", the One who fulfills the covenant to that great believer wherein he was promised a Son who would reign forever, the Branch who would spring from his root, namely, the Messiah (cf. 2Sam.7:12-16; Is.9:6-7; Jer.23:5-6).


That's interesting, CB!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I know I sound like a broken record, but do you think republicans could be any more slimy or vicious than they are at this time in history? The whole federal government is being shut down and no legislation enacted because of republican and tea party attacks and trumped up charges, all because they hate Obama more than they respect the American people. There are many more issues that could have been legitimate targets. Four people dead in Benghazi and 14 dead in West, Texas. Where is the outrage over the fact that those fertilizer plant deaths could have been avoided had the plant been properly inspected? FOURTEEN people. Republican defunding and deregulation were responsible. Where's the outrage? None because there's no political gain in fighting that fight. At this point in our history, republican politicians and legislators are disgusting. I can't think of one that I can respect right now.
End of epistle


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

P.S.
Let people have their own faith and beliefs. There is no point to argue over issues based on faith----unless the followers of that faith have to be reminded of their behavior.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Texas plant explosion arson has not been ruled out
Yes, it is terrible and whoever is responsible should be held accountable.
so yes they have been inspected and fined even in 2012

I am not giving anyone a pass, they need to find out what caused this and hold them accountable.

I would hate in some ways to think it was arson, as I can't imagine how anyone could be so cruel.

http://www.businessinsider.com/west-texas-explosion-cause-undetermined-2013-5
TEXAS STATE FIRE MARSHAL: Arson Not Ruled Out In Fertilizer Plant Explosion Investigation
Adam Taylor | May 16, 2013, 5:46 PM | 1,426 | 1

The cause of the West, Texas fire that caused a huge explosion

is still "undetermined", State Fire Marshal Chris Connealy told reporters this afternoon.
A number of potential causes have been eliminated, including kindling from prior fires, spontaneous ignition, the storage of ammonium nitrate, smoking at the site, weather, and the 480 volt electrical system.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/west-texas-explosion-cause-undetermined-2013-5#ixzz2TYuR15fu

and from CNN,also saying the cause is still a mystery, 
http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/16/us/texas-explosion-probe/index.html
The West Fertilizer Co., which operated the facility, had been cited by federal regulators twice since 2006.

In 2012, the Transportation Department's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration fined West Fertilizer $5,250 for storing anhydrous ammonia in tanks that lacked the proper warning labels. The agency originally recommended a $10,000 penalty, but it was reduced after the company took corrective action.
In 2006, the EPA fined it $2,300 and told the owners to correct problems that included a failure to file a risk management program plan on time. The Texas Commission on Environmental Quality also investigated a complaint about the lingering smell of ammonia around the plant the same year.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but do you think republicans could be any more slimy or vicious than they are at this time in history? The whole federal government is being shut down and no legislation enacted because of republican and tea party attacks and trumped up charges, all because they hate Obama more than they respect the American people. There are many more issues that could have been legitimate targets. Four people dead in Benghazi and 14 dead in West, Texas. Where is the outrage over the fact that those fertilizer plant deaths could have been avoided had the plant been properly inspected? FOURTEEN people. Republican defunding and deregulation were responsible. Where's the outrage? None because there's no political gain in fighting that fight. At this point in our history, republican politicians and legislators are disgusting. I can't think of one that I can respect right now.End of epistle


I don't think you're acting like a broken record. The fertilizer plant in West, TX had the obligation to self-report amounts of certain fertilizer ingredients, and weren't supposed to have anywhere near the amount of substances on hand that made the explosion so horrific. Self-report. It would be a joke if it hadn't led to such a tragedy. This is an example of deregulation at its worst. How likely do you think it is that anyone who wasn't conforming to the rules and regulations that apply to them are going to SELF-REPORT their non-compliance? That's a rhetorical question, of course, I'll bet most of us would want regulations in place that didn't allow self-reporting at all for many industries but mandate on-site inspection instead.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I don't think you're acting like a broken record. The fertilizer plant in West, TX had the obligation to self-report amounts of certain fertilizer ingredients, and weren't supposed to have anywhere near the amount of substances on hand that made the explosion so horrific. Self-report. It would be a joke if it hadn't led to such a tragedy. This is an example of deregulation at its worst. How likely do you think it is that anyone who wasn't conforming to the rules and regulations that apply to them are going to SELF-REPORT their non-compliance? That's a rhetorical question, of course, I'll bet most of us would want regulations in place that didn't allow self-reporting at all for many industries but mandate on-site inspection instead.


Thank you.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

And GW, loving one's neighbor does not mean you don't challenge their tolerate evil or wrong actions. You love them as a Child of God as much as you love yourself[/quote]

What?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Show me the post. Better yet, show me all the posts that I did that, if you can't please stop with your faulty accusations.
> 
> Regardless, of your belief of Jesus, I know of no Jew that would be disrespectful of a rabbi or a prophet (as some believe). I would never be disrespectful of Buddha, Mohammad or other's spiritual guide. (other than satan, just can't go there, just being honest)


 Neither prophet nor false prophet, since Jesus doesn't say "thus spoke the Lord to me" and since Jewish tradition places the end of prophecy three centuries before his time.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> A normal person wouldn't bother. You can't force someone to face truth.


As inn you? Truth hasn't touched you in years.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> And GW, loving one's neighbor does not mean you don't challenge their tolerate evil or wrong actions. You love them as a Child of God as much as you love yourself


What?[/quote]

GW--I think she was speaking to me. Confusion.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> GW--I think she was speaking to me. Confusion.


Oh good - I had to go back and read what I had written because her comment to me made no sense.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh good - I had to go back and read what I had written because her comment to me made no sense.


She just can't keep all of "the libs" straight, can she?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

alcameron said:


> P.S.
> Let people have their own faith and beliefs. There is no point to argue over issues based on faith----unless the followers of that faith have to be reminded of their behavior.


And there is no hypocrisy in your reserving the right for you to judge the faith and behaviour of others????


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess we all look alike to her.



alcameron said:


> She just can't keep all of "the libs" straight, can she?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Unfortunately, there is too much to be gained by this incessant divisive behavior. Secondary gain.


soloweygirl said:


> It does not suffice. We would not need to be African American, Native American, Irish American, Polish American, Italian American, etc. We are labeling ourselves as everything but American first. We, as a country, are wearing our heritage on our sleeves by labeling ourselves in such a manner. It's time for this political correctness to be put to rest and reunite the country.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> She just can't keep all of "the libs" straight, can she?


True, you all say the same talking points over and over again, nothing you say is original or memorable


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> He called an act of terror the next day.......so? Still trying to put a noose around the man's neck, solowey?


He called an act of terror the next day and then jumped straight on the bandwagon blaming the video and a spontaneous demonstration for the attack for the next 3 weeks. Can't have it both ways. He never planned on stating it was a terrorist attack, it would go against his foreign policy rhetoric during the election.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> He called an act of terror the next day and then jumped straight on the bandwagon blaming the video and a spontaneous demonstration for the attack for the next 3 weeks. Can't have it both ways. He never planned on stating it was a terrorist attack, it would go against his foreign policy rhetoric during the election.


Would you point me to where you read this? Thanks.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You know all of that as a fact? Because that's all news to me.
> It's an accusation that Repubs have been using since November.
> The White House has been cleared of any interference on the talking points of Benghazi. They can investigate for the next 10 years and the emails will still be the same. Obama didn't lie.
> I know how much you want that to be true, joey, but it just isn't.


Who cleared the WH of any interference on the talking points?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

I found this interesting article on MarketWatch. 

"Is this the worst jobs recovery ever? 

Well, its pretty bad. About 18 million people would like to work, but cant find a job. In addition, nearly 8 million are involuntarily working part-time when theyd prefer full-time work. 

But weve seen worse, at least in some respects. Its been 46 months since the recession ended. In that time, nonfarm payrolls have increased by 4.9 million, while the private-sector has added 5.6 million jobs. 

By contrast, in the 46 months after the 2001 recession ended, nonfarm payrolls rose by 3.3 million, and the private-sector added 2.8 million jobs. 

This pathetic recovery has actually created more jobs than the previous jobless recovery. The private sector has created twice as many. 

This is a horrible recovery. But its not the worst in terms of job growth. 
Rex Nutting is a columnist and MarketWatch's international commentary editor, based in Washington."


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> He called an act of terror the next day and then jumped straight on the bandwagon blaming the video and a spontaneous demonstration for the attack for the next 3 weeks. Can't have it both ways. He never planned on stating it was a terrorist attack, it would go against his foreign policy rhetoric during the election.


My, that facts go in one ear and out the other, don't they solowey? Keep checking the emails and shaking the old noggin--we could use a bobblehead centerpiece on the dinner party table.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> They were given to select members of congress and not released to the public in February.
> 
> Here is the page with the edit you mentioned. It was changed by Benjamin Rhodes. Obama said he did it, but Benjamin Rhodes was involved in crafting all of the talking points.


The Libyan "demonstrators" were so "spontaneously inspired" by what happened in Cairo that they started demonstrating and just happen to have military weapons with them. The only reason they had weapons with them was because it was a PLANNED attack.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I did, here's the link. A major mistake on Stevens' part, all right.
> 
> http://www.opposingviews.com/i/politics/foreign-policy/war-terror/us-ambassador-chris-stevens-turned-down-us-military-security


Yes, Stevens was warned and he went anyway. Also 20 of 30 people including the Seals were there working for the CIA, not the State Dept. CIA also took the lead in putting out talking points.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I know I sound like a broken record, but do you think republicans could be any more slimy or vicious than they are at this time in history? The whole federal government is being shut down and no legislation enacted because of republican and tea party attacks and trumped up charges, all because they hate Obama more than they respect the American people. There are many more issues that could have been legitimate targets. Four people dead in Benghazi and 14 dead in West, Texas. Where is the outrage over the fact that those fertilizer plant deaths could have been avoided had the plant been properly inspected? FOURTEEN people. Republican defunding and deregulation were responsible. Where's the outrage? None because there's no political gain in fighting that fight. At this point in our history, republican politicians and legislators are disgusting. I can't think of one that I can respect right now.
> End of epistle


 Don't leave out the obstructionists in the Senate that don't bother to bring anything up for a vote, unless it benefits their agenda. It's not just the Republicans that are stalling Congress. Both parties are doing their fair share of nothing. Both parties need an aggressive house cleaning so Congress can function as required and get the country on the correct track.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Would you point me to where you read this? Thanks.


It was constantly brought up during the campaign in Obama's speeches. His foreign policy was pointing out how much safer the world was with the death of OSL and the fact that Al Queada was on the run.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I found this interesting article on MarketWatch.
> 
> "Is this the worst jobs recovery ever?
> 
> ...


What is the reason for the stagnation? Could it be excessive government spending, regulations and mandates? There is no confidence in the economy.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Neither prophet nor false prophet, since Jesus doesn't say "thus spoke the Lord to me" and since Jewish tradition places the end of prophecy three centuries before his time.


I can only speak for myself and what I believe and it is that G-d knows who I am and what I am and that is all I need to know.
I believe today's "Christians" have perverted and twisted the religion to suit their needs and nothing more. It allows them to treat others with no respect or compassion and to hate anything or anyone they don't understand. They have all the answers to all the questions. Just ask them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> And GW, loving one's neighbor does not mean you don't challenge their tolerate evil or wrong actions. You love them as a Child of God as much as you love yourself


What?[/quote]

What is right, GW.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> As inn you? Truth hasn't touched you in years.


Since when has the truth ever been important to the right, rocky? It just complicates things.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Libyan "demonstrators" were so "spontaneously inspired" by what happened in Cairo that they started demonstrating and just happen to have military weapons with them. The only reason they had weapons with them was because it was a PLANNED attack.


No matter how many times you post nothing is going to change. Why are you doing this? What are you hoping to find. The bushes have been all beaten down to the ground and there is nothing there. You only waste your energy for nothing. You might want to check out the emails that were altered by the GOP concerning "the attack". Maybe, your side has some explaining to do now.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Don't leave out the obstructionists in the Senate that don't bother to bring anything up for a vote, unless it benefits their agenda. It's not just the Republicans that are stalling Congress. Both parties are doing their fair share of nothing. Both parties need an aggressive house cleaning so Congress can function as required and get the country on the correct track.


Open your eyes, Solowey. You and your party are falling apart. I have never seen such a desperate bunch of people.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Open your eyes, Solowey. You and your party are falling apart. I have never seen such a desperate bunch of people.


Do tell...and now one even more pitiful than solowey has crawled out of the woodwork. Check out the new topic Alert For Americans--oops, you can't. Admin already took it down! Good for them, shows how ghastly it was that it lasted all of five minutes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What is the reason for the stagnation? Could it be excessive government spending, regulations and mandates? There is no confidence in the economy.


No, excessive government spending, regulations, and mandates are not making the economy stagnate, it's quite the reverse. Austerity measures don't stimulate the economy. Witness Europe. Big corporations (and republicans) are always crying about regulations. They want us to believe that they'll regulate themselves. Fancy that! We're supposed to trust them---just like that wonderful fertilizer plant in Texas that killed 14 people! Why aren't you trying to get to the bottom of that one? Why isn't there any screaming criticism?
And where are your upper class "job creators?" Why aren't they creating?
Government has a purpose in our society, and when we have a bunch of do-nothing jerks in the House, there is nothing but obstruction going on. Admit it---even they do. In fact, they're proud of themselves! They've shut down government!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What is the reason for the stagnation? Could it be excessive government spending, regulations and mandates? There is no confidence in the economy.


Deficit is down, just read where businesses are not really worried about ACA, economy is growing, but slower than expected. I wouldn't be so fast to deregulate businesses, just look what happened in Texas.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Have you read the emails? Any alterations were by democrats. What name on any of the emails belongs to a republican?


Wrong, Joey. There were emails that the GOP "tampered" with and if you read and watched anything other than Fox news and your ultra conservative trash you would know what your own side is up to. Do your research.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Wrong, Joey. There were emails that the GOP "tampered" with and if you read and watched anything other than Fox news and your ultra conservative trash you would know what your own side is up to. Do your research.[/
> 
> Read that this morning with the alterations. Republicans will sink to any level to try to discredit Obama.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What is the reason for the stagnation? Could it be excessive government spending, regulations and mandates? There is no confidence in the economy.


I see positives in this article. The signs are there but some choose not to see


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Cheeky Blighter said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, Joey. There were emails that the GOP "tampered" with and if you read and watched anything other than Fox news and your ultra conservative trash you would know what your own side is up to. Do your research.[/
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Where is your source? I would like to read them. Please provide your source of the email. Not someones comment on the email.
> 
> All I am referring to is the 100 pages that were released last Friday.


I provided it for you in my post. It isn't an opinion it's a fact. CBS broke the story.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Cheeky Blighter said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong, Joey. There were emails that the GOP "tampered" with and if you read and watched anything other than Fox news and your ultra conservative trash you would know what your own side is up to. Do your research.[/
> ...


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Joey they will never provide proof of their accusations against you. Or their proof will be some obscure blog that has no credibility or a Taliban like newspaper.

I was accused of referring to Obama as 'o', which I never did, or at least not on purpose. I asked for the posts where I did that, nothing. I said if I had done it, it would have been a typo, and was basically accused of lying since they couldn't prove what I said was the truth.

They remind me of a snowball going down a mountain, all gathered up in one big ball of snow, plunging down faster and faster, then finally smashing into the wall of truth at the bottom of a ravine.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> They remind me of a snowball going down a mountain, all gathered up in one big ball of snow, plunging down faster and faster, then finally smashing into the wall of truth at the bottom of a ravine.


How right you are, offknit. In your quest for the truth I'd suggest you start by examining the performers beneath your own Party Big Top--whoever changed those transcripts has made absolute clowns out of all of you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I was accused of referring to Obama as 'o', which I never did, or at least not on purpose. I asked for the posts where I did that, nothing. I said if I had done it, it would have been a typo, and was basically accused of lying since they couldn't prove what I said was the truth.


Frankly I don't think any of us give a darn anymore about what the now-deposed Queen thinks or says. The clown suit your own Party has jammed you into somehow doesn't inspire the same respect as the shiny red Pradas and crown you used to flaunt.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Wrong, Joey. There were emails that the GOP "tampered" with and if you read and watched anything other than Fox news and your ultra conservative trash you would know what your own side is up to. Do your research.


She wants you to do it for her. My husband and I saw that and just had to laugh. The Republican Party is imploding themselves.
Whatever will they try and pull next?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Joey they will never provide proof of their accusations against you. Or their proof will be some obscure blog that has no credibility or a Taliban like newspaper.
> 
> I was accused of referring to Obama as 'o', which I never did, or at least not on purpose. I asked for the posts where I did that, nothing. I said if I had done it, it would have been a typo, and was basically accused of lying since they couldn't prove what I said was the truth.
> 
> They remind me of a snowball going down a mountain, all gathered up in one big ball of snow, plunging down faster and faster, then finally smashing into the wall of truth at the bottom of a ravine.


That reminds me of the Republican Party!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I don't think any of us give a darn anymore about what the now-deposed Queen thinks or says. The clown suit your own Party has jammed you into somehow doesn't inspire the same respect as the shiny red Pradas and crown you used to flaunt.


You know what the British say, The queen is dead, long live the queen. Nobody told off2knit the news yet. I'll just tip toe around the shoes and the crown. That's all that is left. Isn't that what happened when the house landed in OZ?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you say it is true, provide the entire email with the alteration.
> 
> It was not in the 100 emails released to the public.
> 
> What I would look for is the time stamp on the email. If is different, it is another email from the same person. Only if the time stamp is the same, it could have been doctored, but then by whom, that would need more investigation. You can't just say by the GOP.


 They were busted!!! And now it is a bigger side show than before.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Libyan "demonstrators" were so "spontaneously inspired" by what happened in Cairo that they started demonstrating and just happen to have military weapons with them. The only reason they had weapons with them was because it was a PLANNED attack.


Solowey was there, she saw it all take place. That's why she knows so much. NOT


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It was constantly brought up during the campaign in Obama's speeches. His foreign policy was pointing out how much safer the world was with the death of OSL and the fact that Al Queada was on the run.


I am asking for clarification about what he supposedly said and then supposedly recounted. We all know that things said during campaigning may or not come true.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> True, you all say the same talking points over and over again, nothing you say is original or memorable


Really? I think the same about the righties. Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi,................................!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I had to laugh. I saw a clip of Shawn Hannity whining because a Marine was holding an umbrella for President Obama.
Sarah Palin commented "Can't the guy hold his own umbrella?
Next they showed Palin deplaning during her VP campaign with a man holding an umbrella over her head. There were a couple of more clips showing an umbrella held for Clinton and GW Bush.
Where do they find the time to nit pick so much about nothing??


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Solowey was there, she saw it all take place. That's why she knows so much. NOT


I think she maybe a stalker too as she claims to know what Obama is up to 24/7. Can't get anything past her. :lol:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I had to laugh. I saw a clip of Shawn Hannity whining because a Marine was holding an umbrella for President Obama.
> Sarah Palin commented "Can't the guy hold his own umbrella?
> Next they showed Palin deplaning during her VP campaign with a man holding an umbrella over her head. There were a couple of more clips showing an umbrella held for Clinton and GW Bush.
> Where do they find the time to nit pick so much about nothing??


I agree it is nit picking, but it is against Marine policy.

http://k99.com/president-obama-forces-u-s-marines-to-break-their-own-code-by-holding-umbrellas-poll/

According to Marine Corps regulation MCO P1020.34F of the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations  chapter 3, a male Marine is not allowed to carry an umbrella while in uniform. Not even the President of the United States can request a Marine to carry an umbrella without the express consent of the Commandant of the Marine Corps, according the Marine Corps Manual. Section 2806 paragraph 2 of the Marine Corps Manual specifically states The Marine Corps Uniform Regulations, published by the Commandant of the Marine Corps, shall be binding on all Marines. No officer or official shall issue instructions which conflict with, alter, or amend any provision without the approval of the Commandant of the Marine Corps.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I agree it is nit picking, but it is against Marine policy.
> 
> http://k99.com/president-obama-forces-u-s-marines-to-break-their-own-code-by-holding-umbrellas-poll/
> 
> According to Marine Corps regulation MCO P1020.34F of the Marine Corps Uniform Regulations  chapter 3, a male Marine is not allowed to carry an umbrella while in uniform. Not even the President of the United States can request a Marine to carry an umbrella without the express consent of the Commandant of the Marine Corps, according the Marine Corps Manual. Section 2806 paragraph 2 of the Marine Corps Manual specifically states The Marine Corps Uniform Regulations, published by the Commandant of the Marine Corps, shall be binding on all Marines. No officer or official shall issue instructions which conflict with, alter, or amend any provision without the approval of the Commandant of the Marine Corps.


Well, the 8th and I barracks where Marines are quartered in Washington DC is under the direct supervision of The Commandant and has there OWN set of orders that come directly from the Commandant. Also, the Commander in Chief trumps the Commandant :-D Marines consider it a badge of honor to serve in the 8th and I.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, the 8th and I barracks where Marines are quartered in Washington DC is under the direct supervision of The Commandant and has there OWN set of orders that come directly from the commandant. Also, the Commander in Chief trumps the Commandant :-D


Only sjr and Bachmann are concerned with the trivia, Patty. God forbid Bachmann would ever undertake anything of importance I don't know why sjr even sees it as news worthy. To each his own. :lol:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Only sjr and Bachmann are concerned with the trivia, Patty. God forbid Bachmann would ever undertake anything of importance I don't know why sjr even sees it as news worthy. To each his own. :lol:


Ooh, Cheeky and Bratty!! What a duo! I'm so glad you came back. A few months ago I was out here almost alone for awhile. Susan, SS, Peacegoddess, and a few lone voices had to carry the load. I'm glad Suzi and Dame Ingried are back, too. And NJG. I wonder what ever happened to pardoquilts? I think she got sick and tired of the garbage.
Anyway, you're doing a great job!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ooh, Cheeky and Bratty!! What a duo! I'm so glad you came back. A few months ago I was out here almost alone for awhile. Susan, SS, Peacegoddess, and a few lone voices had to carry the load. I'm glad Suzi and Dame Ingried are back, too. And NJG. I wonder what ever happened to pardoquilts? I think she got sick and tired of the garbage.
> Anyway, you're doing a great job!


Andrea, have you heard from Katrinka?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Andrea, have you heard from Katrinka?


Nope. Not a word.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Later, ladies. I'm going to (gasp) knit a stitch or two for awhile!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Later, ladies. I'm going to (gasp) knit a stitch or two for awhile!


I am crocheting right now. I am making Brynn a floppy sun hat.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Later, ladies. I'm going to (gasp) knit a stitch or two for awhile!


I am crocheting right now. I am making Brynn a floppy sun hat.
Good night, Andrea! Sweet dreams.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Later, ladies. I'm going to (gasp) knit a stitch or two for awhile!


Good night Andrea. Sweet dreams.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/obama-touts-al-qaeda-s-demise-32-times-benghazi-attack-0

PS: Al Qaeda is not dead, and they are not afraid of Obama

PSS: Where are the posts that I used "o" instead of Obama? If they existed they would have been posted, but alas once again a lie was told.

SE


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

thanks for the compliment about trivia things! I had heard something mentioned about protocol and the umbrellas, so I looked it up.

Ps. On a side note if the new conference had begun on time, maybe no one would have been caught in the rain. It was 47 minutes late in starting.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-47-minutes-late-for-his-press-conference-leaves-reporters-in-the-rain/article/2529829

This is all nonsense, the IRS mess is really more interesting! Especially after yesterday's testimony, Miller really didn't make any friends on both sides with his non answers!

Even Charile Rangel was not happy!!


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Only sjr and Bachmann are concerned with the trivia, Patty. God forbid Bachmann would ever undertake anything of importance I don't know why sjr even sees it as news worthy. To each his own. :lol:


Patty was the one who brought it up, I was just pointing out although it was nit picking, it did go against Marine rules.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> This is all nonsense, the IRS mess is really more interesting!


Yes, it is. Very few Americans look favorably upon that organization, and frankly I'm ready to believe the worst about them. Seems to be one issue the Demos and the Republicans see eye to eye on.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, it is. Very few Americans look favorably upon that organization, and frankly I'm ready to believe the worst about them. Seems to be one issue the Demos and the Republicans see eye to eye on.


maybe this scandal involcing the IRS will finally get some reform of the tax system going. It's talked about, but nothing much seems to get done. Wouldn't it be great if the agreement between Dems and Reps on this issue led to working together on more issues? Probably won't happen, but one can hope.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Patty was the one who brought it up, I was just pointing out although it was nit picking, it did go against Marine rules.


I admit those two guys looked pretty silly dashing over with the umbrellas--no doubt they took a lot of ribbing back in the barracks. But then too I've always felt that the Marines' dress uniform looks a little hokey--in that getup they'd look silly doing anything but standing at attention.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> maybe this scandal involcing the IRS will finally get some reform of the tax system going. It's talked about, but nothing much seems to get done. Wouldn't it be great if the agreement between Dems and Reps on this issue led to working together on more issues? Probably won't happen, but one can hope.


Yes, hanging that dreadful organization out on the line to dry would be a great bipartisan project! And it would take full cooperation between the two parties to get it done--the IRS is its own little fiefdom and wouldn't take kindly to "outsiders" messing around there.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Patty was the one who brought it up, I was just pointing out although it was nit picking, it did go against Marine rules.


This from the Washington Post:

Marines are always out getting rained on. Thats sort of what we do, said Capt. Eric Flanagan, a Marines spokesman. A request from the president to a Marine who serves at the White House, however, would be an extenuating circumstance, he said.

Frankly I think, as a foreign guest was on hand, it boils down to a matter of good manners and courtesy. Whatever the regulations say it would have been inhospitable to let the Turkish Prime Minister get drenched.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, hanging that dreadful organization out on the line to dry would be a great bipartisan project! And it would take full cooperation between the two parties to get it done--the IRS is its own little fiefdom and wouldn't take kindly to "outsiders" messing around there.


"Fiefdom", indeed. They're like all tax collectors through time, except they don't actually go around and take our cows and corn, etc. They get to grab a bite out of whatever money we make before we even have it in our hands. Pretty neat trick, NOT.:thumbdown:


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> This from the Washington Post:
> 
> Marines are always out getting rained on. Thats sort of what we do, said Capt. Eric Flanagan, a Marines spokesman. A request from the president to a Marine who serves at the White House, however, would be an extenuating circumstance, he said.
> 
> Frankly I think, as a foreign guest was on hand, it boils down to a matter of good manners and courtesy. Whatever the regulations say it would have been inhospitable to let the Turkish Prime Minister get drenched.


Agree.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.businessinsider.com/mike-kelly-rant-irs-scandal-steve-miller-2013-5

If anyone missed it Rep Kelly's rant yesterday that got him applause.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> "Fiefdom", indeed. They're like all tax collectors through time, except they don't actually go around and take our cows and corn, etc. They get to grab a bite out of whatever money we make before we even have it in our hands. Pretty neat trick, NOT.:thumbdown:


Exactly. So far we don't know how far up the chain of command the Sheriff of Nottingham mentality ran, but everyone involved should be sacked without delay. Given the incredible power even the lowest IRS bureaucratic possesses they shouldn't be allowed to get away with blaming their antics on superiors.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Or superiors blaming things on lower level agents. Makes you wonder who is in charge?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Or superiors blaming things on lower level agents. Makes you wonder who is in charge?


Whoever it is won't be for long, I imagine. And shouldn't. And in response to your unspoken question: yes, that includes Obama if he did indeed orchestrate this whole thing. We don't need another Richard Nixon parked in the White House.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm trying to finish a ruffle pinafore for Ellie. She's seen me working on it and she can't wait. She gave me a mantra to keep me going: 'I love Ellie. Almost done.'



alcameron said:


> Later, ladies. I'm going to (gasp) knit a stitch or two for awhile!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm trying to finish a ruffle pinafore for Ellie. She's seen me working on it and she can't wait. She gave me a mantra to keep me going: 'I love Ellie. Almost done.'


"Almost done"--my favorite knitting mantra! That one's not going to work for my new project, though--an afghan that will take me weeks or months to complete. I'm probably going to have to use the donkey and the carrot method to get through it--for each quarter I finish I'll let myself knit a quick project just for fun. Or assign myself a daily quota--20 rows each day or something like that.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Whoever it is won't be for long, I imagine. And shouldn't. And in response to your unspoken question: yes, that includes Obama if he did indeed orchestrate this whole thing. We don't need another Richard Nixon parked in the White House.


Really wasn't even referring to the president. It was questioning who is in charge of agencies. 
Seems they always blame it on lower level people.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Really wasn't even referring to the president. It was questioning who is in charge of agencies.
> Seems they always blame it on lower level people.


They always do, and I'm sure this time will be no exception--but let the pink slips fall where they may.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

With the death or shall we say inheritance tax they have been known to take the cattle and crops of farmers.



SeattleSoul said:


> "Fiefdom", indeed. They're like all tax collectors through time, except they don't actually go around and take our cows and corn, etc. They get to grab a bite out of whatever money we make before we even have it in our hands. Pretty neat trick, NOT.:thumbdown:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> maybe this scandal involcing the IRS will finally get some reform of the tax system going. It's talked about, but nothing much seems to get done. Wouldn't it be great if the agreement between Dems and Reps on this issue led to working together on more issues? Probably won't happen, but one can hope.


Dream on. There won"t be another worthwhile piece of legislation coming out of Washington. For the next 3 years.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I have just been notified that my health care costs are increasing by 10%. That is a HUGE amount of money. I guess I need to help pay for all the people who do not have health insurance - including people who smoke, do not want to work, etc....

And Obama said that costs would not increase. What a liar.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have just been notified that my health care costs are increasing by 10%. That is a HUGE amount of money. I guess I need to help pay for all the people who do not have health insurance - including people who smoke, do not want to work, etc....
> 
> And Obama said that costs would not increase. What a liar.


You pay for those uninsured people anyway each time they turn up in the ER with a major medical crisis. Time to get your head out of the sand.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, this is going to cost more. Those were emergencies. Now, it will be for everything. Get your head out of the sand.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> thanks for the compliment about trivia things! I had heard something mentioned about protocol and the umbrellas, so I looked it up.
> 
> Ps. On a side note if the new conference had begun on time, maybe no one would have been caught in the rain. It was 47 minutes late in starting.
> 
> ...


Isn't that the truth! How long was it seems like about 40 minutes we were waiting on him? What was taking so long?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> This from the Washington Post:
> 
> Marines are always out getting rained on. Thats sort of what we do, said Capt. Eric Flanagan, a Marines spokesman. A request from the president to a Marine who serves at the White House, however, would be an extenuating circumstance, he said.
> 
> Frankly I think, as a foreign guest was on hand, it boils down to a matter of good manners and courtesy. Whatever the regulations say it would have been inhospitable to let the Turkish Prime Minister get drenched.


Why didn't they just have the meeting under the porch? They could have moved everything since he was so late?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, this is going to cost more. Those were emergencies. Now, it will be for everything. Get your head out of the sand.


Emergencies that could have been prevented if uninsured folks had seen a doctor when they needed to. Get the sand out of your head.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why didn't they just have the meeting under the porch? They could have moved everything since he was so late?


My, those nit-picking fingers are really flying today. Hope the little buggers taste good.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Emergencies that could have been prevented if uninsured folks had seen a doctor when they needed to. Get the sand out of your head.


???


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> My, those nit-picking fingers are really flying today. Hope the little buggers taste good.


Pardon? Not underinstanding your slang today. You may need to wait for back up to come online.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Pardon? Not underinstanding your slang today. You may need to wait for back up to come online.


Good idea--you may want to grab a bite to eat in the meantime. Seems like more than one little monkey has been out of sorts since the truckload of bananas promised by Benghazi failed to arrive.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Don't you have a book to finish? Or a call to the FBI or 
CIA? You can't see reality. Your side is losing not mine! It is not over yet. Calling people names is very unbecoming.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy: And Obama said that costs would not increase. What a liar.

I agree with you, CB. The conversation was a relatively civilized one about the IRS until lukelucy came barging in.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I am asking for clarification about what he supposedly said and then supposedly recounted. We all know that things said during campaigning may or not come true.


Then listen to his speeches. It's all there in all its glory.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think she maybe a stalker too as she claims to know what Obama is up to 24/7. Can't get anything past her. :lol:


If that was true, then I would know where Obama was after 5PM and would gladly tell the American people. It would at least clear up one question. No? It might even prove that he was actually working on the problem at hand, not dismissing an actual attack that was taking place. But alas, I have no such crystal ball and the question is still unanswered. So sad.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> This from the Washington Post:
> 
> Marines are always out getting rained on. Thats sort of what we do, said Capt. Eric Flanagan, a Marines spokesman. A request from the president to a Marine who serves at the White House, however, would be an extenuating circumstance, he said.
> 
> Frankly I think, as a foreign guest was on hand, it boils down to a matter of good manners and courtesy. Whatever the regulations say it would have been inhospitable to let the Turkish Prime Minister get drenched.


Or the WH could have used some brains and moved the podiums up to the covered porch. They do get weather reports in the WH.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/26/kathleen-sebelius-obamacare_n_2959227.html

I know me again posting an article with facts. Yes health care costs are going up not down for some.

from the article

A new study released on Tuesday by the nonpartisan Society of Actuaries estimates that individual premiums will rise 32 percent on average nationwide within three years, partly as a result of higher risk pools. Changes would vary by state, from an 80 percent hike in Wisconsin to a 14 percent reduction in New York.

and another one from the Washington Post
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/president-obamas-claim-that-insurance-premiums-will-go-down/2012/08/09/424048f2-e245-11e1-a25e-15067bb31849_blog.html


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Emergencies that could have been prevented if uninsured folks had seen a doctor when they needed to. Get the sand out of your head.


That just assumes they would go before it became urgent. You have no way of knowing if they would seek medical treatment at the onset of symptoms if they had health insurance.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That just assumes they would go before it became urgent. You have no way of knowing if they would seek medical treatment at the onset of symptoms if they had health insurance.


People with no insurance go to the ER for any health ailment, not just for something urgent. They go to the ER like those of us with insurance go to the doctor.
One more word about rising prices. Hasn't anyone had premium increases almost yearly from their health insurance companies? Spiraling cost was the reason to try to get a national healthcare system. Insurance companies have always gotten rich on peoples' illnesses.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Mine is the one going up 80% and it is not from insuranace hike, no it is going up because of Obama Care. So can't blame it all on the insurance industry someone has to pay for Obama care. Just tax increase alone will not get it and if I hear one more time it does not take effect until next year. Then why is there an increase of tax taken out of pay checks. 

80% is a lot of money, but I decide this when it cost that much we can chuck the insurance and go on Obama care. In fact sure a lot of people in this state will that use to be able to afford insurance . Can't pay for what you can't afford .


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yarn Lady,

Thank you for seeing the light. This increase is way over what it has ever been. It is because of Obamacare and people don't see the correlation. 

This country is going down the tubes. People are forgetting what Socialism is like and think it is ok. People need to take care of themselves. The government isn't the one to do the job.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Susan,
She was talking about you, not me...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Mine is the one going up 80% and it is not from insuranace hike, no it is going up because of Obama Care. So can't blame it all on the insurance industry someone has to pay for Obama care. Just tax increase alone will not get it and if I hear one more time it does not take effect until next year. Then why is there an increase of tax taken out of pay checks.
> 
> 80% is a lot of money, but I decide this when it cost that much we can chuck the insurance and go on Obama care. In fact sure a lot of people in this state will that use to be able to afford insurance . Can't pay for what you can't afford .


An 80% hike is ridiculous. How can you be sure it's from Obamacare?? Talk to your insurance company. That's outrageous.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

State Journal newspaper reported it, that was anounce by our state goverment. Our health coop. sent out letters to people that's how. 

May be you can get past it or your state insurance company's are not hiking up your insurance but our's are.

Our coop was always the last to raise prices, and we recieved the best care around. Some one has to pay the piper and in this state it will be us the taxs payers..


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup. Barak at work


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Yes, they are going to go up. Not everyone will qualify for assistance, that the IRS will determine if you get or need.

More things are mandated that need to be covered and I believe people with pre existing conditions can't be charged more( which I believe is a good thing), but this is not going to come without higher premiums for others. 

from the Washington Post article
Heres a summary of the research:
A nationwide study conducted by Milliman Inc. for the Society of Actuaries found that nationwide the premiums in the individual market would increase from 8 to 37 percent in 2014  with a cumulative increase of as much as 122 percent between 2013 and 2017.

Indiana determined the law would boost premiums in the individual market on average by 75 to 95 percent and in the small employer market by 5-10 percent in 2014.

Ohio found rates would go up 55 to 85 percent above current rates, before tax credits.
Minnesota concluded that individual market premiums will increase between 26 to 42 percent

Maine said individual premiums will increase on average by 40 percent and premiums in the small group market are likely to increase 8 to 9 percent. About 20 percent of the individual market would still experience premium increases even after subsidies.

Maryland concluded individual premiums will go up on average by 34 to 36 percent and in the small employer market on average by 2 percent

Wisconsin found that before tax credits, the average premium increase in the individual market will be 30 percent.

Colorado said individual premiums will go up on average 19 percent.

Rhode Island found that before tax subsidies, premiums for individuals will increase on average by 8 percent.
***


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup. Barak at work


I bet you'd feel different if you were getting insurance for the first time. Personally, I think they would have been better off expanding the Medicare system to include everyone, but I guess people would complain even louder about socialized medicine. The Medicare system is already in place and would have been much easier to implement and would have been much easier for us to navigate.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I would never be getting insurance for the first time. I worked hard and being insured was the result.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

a better way that could have been done would be to have regulated the insurance industry, like the goverment did with banks, post office. Oh wait thats right they are all in a mess to.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Any time the government gets their hands on anything - look out.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> a better way that could have been done would be to have regulated the insurance industry, like the goverment did with banks, post office. Oh wait thats right they are all in a mess to.


I agree with you, but republicans are very opposed to any kind of government regulation. They always say that the industry can regulate itself. not! They want government hands off corporations, industry, big business. Look at the fertilizer plant in Texas. Lives could have been saved if there had been timely inspections and regulations.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Any time the government gets their hands on anything - look out.


This isn't necessarily true. There are many things that the government provides that are very needed and that run smoothly---or would run smoothly if there were funds to make things run smoothly. Nobody wants higher taxes, and everyone screams about government waste, but it does take money to run the government. Nobody wants to own up to that fact.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Some regulations are necessary (quality control), but a line must be drawn.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Al it is not just the republians are to blame it is also the Democract,s the independants. All our goverment knows how to do is spend. 

I for one would love to see independant accounting done by people outside of goverment. They could come in and go through the books, get rid of wasteful programs and spending. I would bet that the money they found could be used for the programs needed, and bet our budget would be balanced in no time. 

But that will never happen as all the goverment does is spend more,add unneed programs, and more people to fill the jobs to do it.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

several pages ago I posted links about the Texas explosion. The company was fined in 2012, so it has been inspected. 
More inspections might have helped, I don't disagree, but 
arson has not been ruled out in the cause.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> several pages ago I posted links about the Texas explosion. The company was fined in 2012, so it has been inspected.
> More inspections might have helped, I don't disagree, but
> arson has not been ruled out in the cause.


Yes, but they need more than a fine or slap on the wrist, don't you think?


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

and what else do they do, they fine and maybe a slap on the wrist. 
IF they comply what do you propose?
Close them down. 
How often should they be inspected? 
What do you propose?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> and what else do they do, they fine and maybe a slap on the wrist.
> IF they comply what do you propose?
> Close them down.
> How often should they be inspected?
> What do you propose?


I don't know what should be done, but a fine probably isn't enough. I do know that OSHA has been cut back so that inspections haven't been done regularly because the work force is smaller. I'm getting ready for company, but if I can find the excellent article I read about this,(quickly) I'll post it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's one article, but it isn't the one I was looking for

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/28/where_were_the_regulators_before_the_texas_fertilizer_plant_explosion_partner/


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Here's one article, but it isn't the one I was looking for
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2013/04/28/where_were_the_regulators_before_the_texas_fertilizer_plant_explosion_partner/


I totally agree, they need inspections!! agencies need to look at their budgets, are seminars in exotic places needed instead of hiring more inspectors.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I would never be getting insurance for the first time. I worked hard and being insured was the result.


There are people getting their first jobs and people who don't have insurance offered at their workplace. I think it's kind of dumb to have insurance tied to our job. Even changing companies is a mess, and if a person is laid off, he's out of luck. You seem to think that everyone who works hard gets insurance. That's not the case.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> With the death or shall we say inheritance tax they have been known to take the cattle and crops of farmers.


You are correct. The IRS can seize property from individuals including almost anything of value such as cattle, crops assets of companies, etc. I worked for a company several years ago where the IRS came in unannounced late on a Friday afternoon. The Treasury Agents told us to gather up only our personal belongings and to go stand by the door. We were told not to touch anything else. They looked at what each of us was carrying out and when we were all out in the parking lot they told us the business was seized and we no longer had jobs. They then put chains and padlocks on the door and that was it.
We found out the company had been decreasing our gross pay by Federal tax, SS tax and Medicare from our paychecks but not turning the money in so they owed millions to the IRS. That company did get what they deserved but there are others that were not dealt with fairly by the IRS. The IRS gave us credit for the taxes that the company had not turned over so we all came out OK when we filed our tax returns.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I totally agree, they need inspections!! agencies need to look at their budgets, are seminars in exotic places needed instead of hiring more inspectors.


It's kind of nice to discuss something without all the vitriol, isn't it?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are correct. The IRS can seize property from individuals including almost anything of value such as cattle, crops assets of companies, etc. I worked for a company several years ago where the IRS came in unannounced late on a Friday afternoon. The Treasury Agents told us to gather up only our personal belongings and to go stand by the door. We were told not to touch anything else. They looked at what each of us was carrying out and when we were all out in the parking lot they told us the business was seized and we no longer had jobs. They then put chains and padlocks on the door and that was it.
> We found out the company had been collecting Federal tax, SS tax and Medicare from our paychecks but not turning it in so they owed millions to the government. That company did get what they deserved but there are others that were not dealt with fairly by the IRS.


Geez! What a crooked outfit! And what a quick way to lose your job! That must have been awful.
I need to stop this KP break and get back to my job at hand!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Geez! What a crooked outfit! And what a quick way to lose your job! That must have been awful.
> I need to stop this KP break and get back to my job at hand!


Yes, it was a total surprise but we did get to keep our paychecks we got that morning and I found another job in less than 2 weeks that was actually much better than that one and closer to home. This was before the economy tanked.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I totally agree about inspections. My dh had his accident over a Federal defect in the caboose he fell under. Ladder was broken. It was all covered up before he told what had happened.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> There are people getting their first jobs and people who don't have insurance offered at their workplace. I think it's kind of dumb to have insurance tied to our job. Even changing companies is a mess, and if a person is laid off, he's out of luck. You seem to think that everyone who works hard gets insurance. That's not the case.


I agree. It's bad enough to lose your job but then losing insurance coverage too is a real kick in the butt or to have to work for a company that can't or won't cover employees. That is one reason I am for ACA so I can have my own insurance and not have to worry about what an employer may or may not do.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I totally agree about inspections. My dh had his accident over a Federal defect in the caboose he fell under. Ladder was broken. It was all covered up before he told what had happened.


That is terrible CB. Were you able to take them to court over his accident?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That is terrible CB. Were you able to take them to court over his accident?


Very big mess.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

alcameron said:


> It's kind of nice to discuss something without all the vitriol, isn't it?


Yes it is. 
Enjoy your company.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Totally off subject, there will not be a Triple Crown winner this year. Orb didn't win.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, this is going to cost more. Those were emergencies. Now, it will be for everything. Get your head out of the sand.


Many people have said this about emergency rooms. Having worked in a major hospital central business office for years I can tell you that that is simply NOT TRUE. I guess if people say it enough times then people actually start believing it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Many people have said this about emergency rooms. Having worked in a major hospital central business office for years I can tell you that that is simply NOT TRUE. I guess if people say it enough times then people actually start believing it.


My comment was in response to Susan's comment stating "You pay for those uninsured people anyway each time they turn up in the ER with a major medical crisis. Time to get your head out of the sand." Not Lukelucy's.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/14/obama-student-loans-policy-profit_n_3276428.html

Just think of all the money the government will make and profit from Obamacare? Just think, the shysters involved with the IRS abuses will be in charge of Obamacare. The Administration in charge of student loans is milking the students of tens of thousands of dollars. They can't refinance their loans, because the government won't let them. So how is that helping young Americans? They are paying off extremely loans with high interests rates, so no money for homes or cars. Gotta love Obama, NOT


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you, Thumper for clearing that up. I know you are a nice person and would never say that.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Susan, are you listening to who was on the receiving end of the criticism? YOU!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Many people have said this about emergency rooms. Having worked in a major hospital central business office for years I can tell you that that is simply NOT TRUE. I guess if people say it enough times then people actually start believing it.


I think this depends on where you are. There has been a huge increase in the use of the ER at our local hospital by people without insurance. Ambulances are frequently turned away and/or re-routed to a medical center in a neighboring city. I had to call 911 once when my husband collapsed. They put him in the ambulance and I followed in the car. We got about 4 blocks and the ambulance stopped and was going to take him to another facility. Because he was stable, I put him in the car and drove (speeding, no doubt) to a different hospital where there was not a soul in the ER! He was taken in immediately.
And we got a bill from the ambulance company for $800, which we refused to pay, but that's another story.
I think it would be good if we had more free and low cost clinics around.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry you went through that. I hope your husband is fine now. 
But, who will pay for the "free" clinics? Ultimately, they won't be free.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

No such thing as a free lunch, therefore no such thing as a free clinic


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Offtoknit,

Thank you. So well said. Nothing is for free. BEWARE - if it sounds too good to be true...

Obamacare needs to go. This country needs to find another plan. Something that works. Obama does not care that it works. He only cares that he is "innovative" and can do what no other president could do. Plus, he need to take care of the underdog. He is the worst thing for our democratic nation.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

I still do not understand, why are you not angry with your insurers????

I think that they, as well as your pharmaceutical lobbyists drive a good portion of your medical care.

Believe me, insurers are not not thinking of your health - the bottom line is profit!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think this depends on where you are. There has been a huge increase in the use of the ER at our local hospital by people without insurance. Ambulances are frequently turned away and/or re-routed to a medical center in a neighboring city. I had to call 911 once when my husband collapsed. They put him in the ambulance and I followed in the car. We got about 4 blocks and the ambulance stopped and was going to take him to another facility. Because he was stable, I put him in the car and drove (speeding, no doubt) to a different hospital where there was not a soul in the ER! He was taken in immediately.
> And we got a bill from the ambulance company for $800, which we refused to pay, but that's another story.
> I think it would be good if we had more free and low cost clinics around.


I agree that we need more free and low cost clinics. However, it takes money to run those clinics and that money does come from the paying customers that go to the FFS clinics in that health system. That does not address the comments so easily accepted by some regarding free care in ERs. If one goes to the ER they are billed and collected on by all legal means available. We worked with those who were low income to arrange payments that were affordable, they were offered a sliding fee, and if their income was in the appropriate threshold they were led through the medical assistance process. Nothing is 'given' away for free.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> I still do not understand, why are you not angry with your insurers????
> 
> I think that they, as well as your pharmaceutical lobbyists drive a good portion of your medical care.
> 
> Believe me, insurers are not not thinking of your health - the bottom line is profit!


Momto2 you are so correct but the folks on the right love to hate Obama so much that they blame everything on him no matter what it is. The expression blinded by hate describes many of them to a T. Doesn't have to make sense or be true, just blame Obama. Insurance companies and big Pharma are their friends. They would never do anything to harm the folks on the right. They know who their enemy is. It's the scary black man with the funny name living in the White House. I can hardly wait until they have Clinton to deal with. They will really go nuts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Offtoknit,
> 
> Thank you. So well said. Nothing is for free. BEWARE - if it sounds too good to be true...
> 
> Obamacare needs to go. This country needs to find another plan. Something that works. Obama does not care that it works. He only cares that he is "innovative" and can do what no other president could do. Plus, he need to take care of the underdog. He is the worst thing for our democratic nation.


Lukelucy where do you come up with this crazy stuff? What plan would you suggest we have in the U.S. It's easy to criticize but I haven't seen any ideas coming from the GOP, have you?


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Just as a general question of interst, if someone made $50,000 a year, what portion of that income would be taxed?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Very big mess.


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Lukelucy where do you come up with this crazy stuff? What plan would you suggest we have in the U.S. It's easy to criticize but I haven't seen any ideas coming from the GOP, have you?


At what point, in our history, did health insurance become a 'right'? Separate 'right' from needing healthcare. I'm just curious as someone who has watched and experienced the evolution of healthcare and the insurance product.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Lukelucy where do you come up with this crazy stuff? What plan would you suggest we have in the U.S. It's easy to criticize but I haven't seen any ideas coming from the GOP, have you?


No, and a few saner minds among the GOP are beginning to realize that no agenda (other than obstructing Obama's, of course) means no victory in 2016. I'm not sure it's possible to turn things around at this late date, but I'm curious to see what they come up with.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

So it's a right to own a gun, but do not get sick!!!

Is that the bottom line?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> I still do not understand, why are you not angry with your insurers????
> 
> I think that they, as well as your pharmaceutical lobbyists drive a good portion of your medical care.
> 
> Believe me, insurers are not not thinking of your health - the bottom line is profit!


Everything was fine with my premiums and the moderate rate of increases, so I blame Obamacare for the rise in premiums. I have checked around, and every insurance health insurance company has raised their rates. I have not hit my deductible ever, yet my rates have almost doubled in two years. Only reason is Obamacare.

Where is the promise that my health insurance rates would drop over $2000? All lies by Obama.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> At what point, in our history, did health insurance become a 'right'? Separate 'right' from needing healthcare. I'm just curious as someone who has watched and experienced the evolution of healthcare and the insurance product.


No idea, but like free public education I think it's great.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Momto2 you are so correct but the folks on the right love to hate Obama so much that they blame everything on him no matter what it is. The expression blinded by hate describes many of them to a T. Doesn't have to make sense or be true, just blame Obama. Insurance companies and big Pharma are their friends. They would never do anything to harm the folks on the right. They know who their enemy is. It's the scary black man with the funny name living in the White House. I can hardly wait until they have Clinton to deal with. They will really go nuts.


Your comment sounds racist. he's scary, not because he's black but because of his lack of any kind of presidential worthy experience (even into his second term...geez, you guys will elect anything), his known policies, his unknown policies, his total lack of knowledge of anything not having to do with his golf game, and his complete ineptitude.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> So it's a right to own a gun, but do not get sick!!!
> 
> Is that the bottom line?


Do we have gun insurance?


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thumper why so glib?

My question was an honest one. Why would the health and well being of your citizens be not as important as the need to own a gun?

I do not understand?

In all honesty, I see remarks from people that really begrudge some one going to a clinic who can't afford it, I think that is a very sad commentary in this day and age.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No idea, but like free public education I think it's great.


Sure! I'll let you be the first patient attended by a doc given a degree, not because they possessed expertise in their discipline, but because the institution didn't want to hurt their feelings. Let me know how that works for you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Momto2 you are so correct but the folks on the right love to hate Obama so much that they blame everything on him no matter what it is. The expression blinded by hate describes many of them to a T. Doesn't have to make sense or be true, just blame Obama. Insurance companies and big Pharma are their friends. They would never do anything to harm the folks on the right. They know who their enemy is. It's the scary black man with the funny name living in the White House. I can hardly wait until they have Clinton to deal with. They will really go nuts.


Now, now you were being nice a minute ago.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Why would the health and well being of your citizens be not as important as the need to own a gun?


Because the general populace does not take their health and well being seriously until something is drastically wrong.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sorry to hear that.


Thank you.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I saw something I thought was strange this week. My sil had surgery . Just as she was coming out of recovery still drugged up a nurse came in for her to fill out a form. She had already filled 2 out. She was asked personal question about where she went to school. How much education she had. I could not understand the questions she was asked right out of surgery and what did her accident have to do with her schooling. Odd to me. I would have told them as I was drugged what did it matter where I went to school. Very strange questions to me.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thumper,

Do you think that with "free" systems, all have to pay? I do not think there will be "free systems". 

I still think that the more you give away, the more you take away = a less democratic system.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

CB,

Yes, very strange thing to do. I wonder why. Has to do with Barakcare and what is coming down the line? That equals stupidity.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> No such thing as a free lunch, therefore no such thing as a free clinic


But there are free lunches, and yes, I know somebody pays. My group gives out free lunches every day at my church. There are free and low-cost clinics
Here and there and I wish we had more. We're a rich country but we do a horrible job with our poor and aged.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I am so glad that we have a National Health Service still, free at the point of use. Our minority Conservative government is hell-bent on privatising the best thing this country has ever done for its people, and the US health-care companies are circling like the vultures they are. The arguments you are having are completely alien to me, for which I give thanks to our post-war socialist government.

I cannot imagine anything worse than worrying about how to pay for getting and staying well. Last year I broke my wrist and had two operations. All I had to think about was getting better. I also have long-term problems which won't kill me but are quite painful. I have just completed a ten-session pain management course that cost nothing. There are worse things than "socialised" medicine.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Sure! I'll let you be the first patient attended by a doc given a degree, not because they possessed expertise in their discipline, but because the institution didn't want to hurt their feelings. Let me know how that works for you.


No idea what you're trying to say...my point is that the notion of free public education for children was once considered ridiculous. Parents who couldn't afford a private school were expected as a matter of course to teach their kids themselves or simply put them to work at the tender age of 8 or 10. We expect society to provide much more for us now--safe working conditions, a guaranteed minimum wage--and we are all the better for it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> CB,
> 
> Yes, very strange thing to do. I wonder why. Has to do with Barakcare and what is coming down the line? That equals stupidity.


I don't know why they asked her that. She had to tell all about her religion too. I guess if she needed spirtual help but still way to many personal questions. She was drugged too .


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

CB,

That is nuts for them to do that. But, with Barakcare coming, I suspect that there are going to be a lot of crazy things going on. We'd better hold on for dear life.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Let's be real. There is nothing that is free. I live in a democratic country where I am heavily taxed. I am proud of my country and thankful that I live wher I do.

From the taxes that I pay from my income a portion is allocated to the province, a portion is allocated to the federal level. When I owned a home, I paid City taxes. When I shop I pay taxes again 13%. When I buy gas, liquor and junk food I pay tax.

The taxes I pay goes to my health care, they operate schools, they pay for roads, and infra structures. Nothing is free.

I do not know why you keep saying it's free. 

But I do know I have great health care, my kids have great educations, and I can complain and rant about the taxes I pay because I vote in a democratic society that allows me to do that.

so you are absolutely right nothing is free! I work and work hard, my kids work and will be working hard and at the end of the day if my neighbour who is not working and has to go to the hospital to be looked after it - good for him, because it's important to look after those who can't.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I am so glad that we have a National Health Service still, free at the point of use. Our minority Conservative government is hell-bent on privatising the best thing this country has ever done for its people, and the US health-care companies are circling like the vultures they are. The arguments you are having are completely alien to me, for which I give thanks to our post-war socialist government.
> 
> I cannot imagine anything worse than worrying about how to pay for getting and staying well. Last year I broke my wrist and had two operations. All I had to think about was getting better. I also have long-term problems which won't kill me but are quite painful. I have just completed a ten-session pain management course that cost nothing. There are worse things than "socialised" medicine.


That's true--Americans tend to forget that most of our allies have some form of "socialized" medicine and still have managed to survive as democracies. I haven't seen a hammer and sickle posted on the Eiffel Tower or Buckingham Palace yet.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Let's be real. There is nothing that is free. I live in a democratic country where I am heavily taxed. I am proud of my country and thankful that I live wher I do.
> 
> From the taxes that I pay from my income a portion is allocated to the province, a portion is allocated to the federal level. When I owned a home, I paid City taxes. When I shop I pay taxes again 13%. When I buy gas, liquor and junk food I pay tax.
> 
> ...


Stand up and take a bow, MOM! Outside of the healthcare which is still being worked on, it is the same way here. There are some who think that the gov't here is going to take away their possessions and money and of course the almighty gun.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Our country is based on "freedom". This freedom enables creativity, free enterprise and a system that allows us (in the past) to be innovative. 

I do believe that anytime one has a government (that is what Barak is pushing), innovation, creativity, etc. goes by the wayside. 

America will not be the nation that it has been because of what Barak is pushing. We will be downgraded even more.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I saw something I thought was strange this week. My sil had surgery . Just as she was coming out of recovery still drugged up a nurse came in for her to fill out a form. She had already filled 2 out. She was asked personal question about where she went to school. How much education she had. I could not understand the questions she was asked right out of surgery and what did her accident have to do with her schooling. Odd to me. I would have told them as I was drugged what did it matter where I went to school. Very strange questions to me.


Given what I do I can tell you that the government has been a huge driver in the costs associated with healthcare due to the ever increasing documentation and regulations associated with it. Every 6 months or so the rules are changed and they want more information. When I go to the doctor, do I answer every question asked of me honestly, knowing the information is available to the government? Absolutely not. Nor should you.

To all the nasty gals, I'm not saying that any regulation is wrong. Get over it. However, every government regulation has a cost.

Let's talk about the cost of caring for elderly who had money saved up for their last years and the kids spent it all on themselves. Cars, booze, gambling, trips, etc. As a healthcare worker would you work for free to care for them because their kids were selfish? The majority of them act as if, when they are put in a LTC facility, they're already dead and the money is theirs. It happens more often than you would like to think.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Our country is based on "freedom". This freedom enables creativity, free enterprise and a system that allows us (in the past) to be innovative.
> 
> I do believe that anytime one has a government (that is what Barak is pushing), innovation, creativity, etc. goes by the wayside.
> 
> America will not be the nation that it has been because of what Barak is pushing. We will be downgraded even more.


We have always had a government, you twit.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true--Americans tend to forget that most of our allies have some form of "socialized" medicine and still have managed to survive as democracies. I haven't seen a hammer and sickle posted on the Eiffel Tower or Buckingham Palace yet.


hummmmm. Greece, Portugal, Spain, are perfect examples of how socialism and free health care works.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

[quote thumper}
"To all the nasty gals, I'm not saying that any regulation is wrong. Get over it. However, every government regulation has a cost. 


And has since 1776


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Our country is based on "freedom". This freedom enables creativity, free enterprise and a system that allows us (in the past) to be innovative.
> 
> I do believe that anytime one has a government (that is what Barak is pushing), innovation, creativity, etc. goes by the wayside.
> 
> America will not be the nation that it has been because of what Barak is pushing. We will be downgraded even more.


Sorry, I have no idea what you are talking about. I know I'm foreign, but we do speak a version of English.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You are right, no hammer and sickle. However, where do these countries stand with innovation, world power, creativity, standard of living?

The standard of living in these countries is SO MUCH LOWER THAN OURS. Have you been there, seen it? I could never live there and have their lower standard of living. I have seen it.

All the money those countries you mentioned have a huge tax rate. No personal savings like you have here (except for -probably - the politicians. There is no comparison to our country. 

Please do not think that you can compare our great country with theirs. Not the same. And our country will not be great for much longer the way it is going.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> hummmmm. Greece, Portugal, Spain, are perfect examples of how socialism and free health care works.


So is Canada, and Japan. There health systems are awesome!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true--Americans tend to forget that most of our allies have some form of "socialized" medicine and still have managed to survive as democracies. I haven't seen a hammer and sickle posted on the Eiffel Tower or Buckingham Palace yet.


We are a Republic


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

off2knit said:


> hummmmm. Greece, Portugal, Spain, are perfect examples of how socialism and free health care works.


Do you have any idea what you are talking about?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> We are a Republic


Country, I really wish we were too.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, no hammer and sickle. However, where do these countries stand with innovation, world power, creativity, standard of living?
> 
> The standard of living in these countries is SO MUCH LOWER THAN OURS. Have you been there, seen it? I could never live there and have their lower standard of living. I have seen it.
> 
> ...


I'm going to make a template for "Do you know what you are talking about?"


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, no hammer and sickle. However, where do these countries stand with innovation, world power, creativity, standard of living?
> 
> The standard of living in these countries is SO MUCH LOWER THAN OURS. Have you been there, seen it? I could never live there and have their lower standard of living. I have seen it.
> 
> ...


well, let's see, Germany is way ahead in innovation and a wonderful country to live in. They pay taxes there too, and in return have good jobs, economy and great health care.
Our country will never lose it's greatness. We've been down before and bounced back. It's the Republicans and Tea Party who are stopping any kind of legislature to improve our situation.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

I also have freedoms - I can mary anyone whom I wish, man or woman, I can practice any religious belief I may have.

I can come and go as I wish, I can do everything you can do.

I live in a democracy with social type medicine and am proud of it. 

Oh you hear stories about things that aren't paid and people rushing to the US - but I can honestly say, from what I have seen and from what I've gone through if my medical condition is something that needs to be looked at it is done so and in most cases rapidly.

and I can own a gun if I wish - I just don't do so, because I have faith right or run in the police and armed forces of my country.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There is nothing like a bunch of scavengers, piranhas who want the money of the elderly. Unbelievable. People will do anything (and justify it in their minds) to scoop up whatever they can from the elderly.

My aunt was taken for SO MUCH MONEY from a scavenger like that. Pitiful. 

People prey on the elderly.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Maybe their healthcare systems are great. But they are stealing our ideas. No creativity there. Freedom = innovation and growth. And some people in our country do not understand this.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Let's be real. There is nothing that is free. I live in a democratic country where I am heavily taxed. I am proud of my country and thankful that I live wher I do.
> 
> From the taxes that I pay from my income a portion is allocated to the province, a portion is allocated to the federal level. When I owned a home, I paid City taxes. When I shop I pay taxes again 13%. When I buy gas, liquor and junk food I pay tax.
> 
> ...


I live in Minnesota. I am heavily taxed. I pay city taxes, county taxes, in the city I live I pay a larger sales tax than those in other parts of our state, healthcare tax, property tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, anything that isn't nailed down tax. And yet our state feels that isn't enough and they are coming up with more ways to tax us. My DH an I, after living here all our lives, are investigating leaving the state. It breaks our hearts.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There is nothing like a bunch of scavengers, piranhas who want the money of the elderly. Unbelievable. People will do anything (and justify it in their minds) to scoop up whatever they can from the elderly.
> 
> My aunt was taken for SO MUCH MONEY from a scavenger like that. Pitiful.
> 
> People prey on the elderly.


I suppose President Obama did that too?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Patty don't call Lukelucy names. We were having a nice conversation without name calling. Please?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There is nothing like a bunch of scavengers, piranhas who want the money of the elderly. Unbelievable. People will do anything (and justify it in their minds) to scoop up whatever they can from the elderly.
> 
> My aunt was taken for SO MUCH MONEY from a scavenger like that. Pitiful.
> 
> People prey on the elderly.


A scavenger like what? A private company that cares only about profit?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> hummmmm. Greece, Portugal, Spain, are perfect examples of how socialism and free health care works.


32 out of the 33 so-called developed nations have some form of universal health care--we're the only holdouts. If the countries below have somehow managed to survive I'm sure that we can as well.

Norway 1912	
New Zealand	1938	
Japan 1938	
Germany 1941	
Belgium 1945	
United Kingdom	1948	
Kuwait 1950	
Sweden 1955	
Bahrain 1957	
Brunei 1958	
Canada 1966	
Netherlands	1966	
Austria 1967	
United Arab Emirates	1971	
Finland 1972	
Slovenia 1972	
Denmark 1973	
Luxembourg	1973	
France 1974	
Australia 1975	
Ireland 1977	
Italy 1978	
Portugal 1979	
Cyprus 1980	
Greece 1983	
Spain 1986	
South Korea	1988	
Iceland 1990	
Hong Kong	1993	
Singapore 1993	
Switzerland	1994	
Israel 1995


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I live in Minnesota. I am heavily taxed. I pay city taxes, county taxes, in the city I live I pay a larger sales tax than those in other parts of our state, healthcare tax, property tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, anything that isn't nailed down tax. And yet our state feels that isn't enough and they are coming up with more ways to tax us. My DH an I, after living here all our lives, are investigating leaving the state. It breaks our hearts.


As far as I know they were going to tax clothing over 100.00 and boost the tobacco and liquor taxes. We all pay taxes.
It is what makes our state as great as it is. 
We have low taxes compared to other cities in the US. You may pay a higher sales tax because of your location. I pay a local sales tax of 7 1/2 %


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am sorry that you feel you need to leave the state. But, again, our country needs some fixing. The same is happening here. 

Taxation is only going to get worse under Barak.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Maybe their healthcare systems are great. But they are stealing our ideas. No creativity there. Freedom = innovation and growth. And some people in our country do not understand this.


Again, do you know what you are talking about? What ideas? What creativity? Who invented the internet?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

A private company out for profit is a company that hires people and gives people jobs.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You tell me, who invented the internet?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You tell me, who invented the internet?


Tim Berners-Lee. Brit.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Again, do you know what you are talking about? What ideas? What creativity? Who invented the internet?


She has no clue, Ann. Just a bellyacher and an Obama hater.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> We have always had a government, you twit.


Really, you a-hole?


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?

Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.


Its actually quite frightening how little you know about your allies, your neighbours and others.

It's almost insulting


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Really, you a-hole?


Ah thumper is getting her toilet mouth primed up for the evening.
She feels the need to speak for others in a very foul manner. I wonder what word Granny will teach the twins first?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

And he got his education at MIT - which is in the good old USA. So, he took from here and used it. Hummm.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?
> 
> Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.
> 
> ...


It's frightening how little she knows period.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?
> 
> Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.
> 
> ...


Almost?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And he got his education at MIT - which is in the good old USA. So, he took from here and used it. Hummm.


He also paid for that education. MIT is not free.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

America has been known as a leader. I am very aware that other countries surpass us in many things. They will continue to do so if things keep going the way they are here.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> So is Canada, and Japan. There health systems are awesome!


Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed. I can tell you, having worked for the Fairview system in Minneapolis, we got a fair share of those from Canada that were not able to receive treatment in a timely manner. Need something? I'll put you on my waiting list.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Loans, scholarships???


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?
> 
> Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.
> 
> ...


Not almost...IS.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> And he got his education at MIT - which is in the good old USA. So, he took from here and used it. Hummm.


So he did. And came up with the internet. You are a very young country, so I am willing to give you some leeway.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ah thumper is getting her toilet mouth primed up for the evening.
> She feels the need to speak for others in a very foul manner. I wonder what word Granny will teach the twins first?


I was just following your lead.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Loans, scholarships???


Money???????


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Susan,

Did you read what I said? Many countries surpass us. And they will continue to surpass us in many more ways because of what is happening in our country.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed. I can tell you, having worked for the Fairview system in Minneapolis, we got a fair share of those from Canada that were not able to receive treatment in a timely manner. Need something? I'll put you on my waiting list.


"Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed."

And you know that, how? Really thumper, you really don't know it all.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Loans, scholarships = money from USA.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> Did you read what I said? Many countries surpass us. And they will continue to surpass us in many more ways because of what is happening in our country.


Oh please. I really doubt that one President and his policies can destroy our country. We're not a sandcastle that will be washed away when the tide comes in.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> At what point, in our history, did health insurance become a 'right'? Separate 'right' from needing healthcare. I'm just curious as someone who has watched and experienced the evolution of healthcare and the insurance product.


Just curious, thumper what company did you work for and what have you seen happen over the years. I live in your area and worked for United Healthcare for over 15 years and saw a lot of changes. Some good but not impressed by most. I believe in a civilized society that considers itself a first world nation healthcare should be a right for all. I also believe this because my spiritual belief is that I am my brother's keeper and if I have something I must share it with my brother. I consider it common decency and to do less would be morally wrong. My spiritual beliefs are not from the U.S. constitution. The constitution is a government document and was never intended to be a substitute for moral beliefs. I have always found that when I live by my principals and care for others I have always had enough too. I think karma works that way. Seems like to many people are keeping score and spend their lives worrying about somebody getting more than them or taking away something they think they are entitled to. We come in to the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. My faith is strong and I never have to worry. The creator does provide.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Susan,

I cannot begin to tell you how one person, one administration can change things permanently for the worst. It can happen. You must believe what I say.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Cheeky,

I agree that we are our brother's keepers. But the government has nothing to do with it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I was just following your lead.


Twit is not a foul word thumper. Why don't you sit and have a Tidy Bowl cocktail and cool down.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> I cannot begin to tell you how one person, one administration can change things permanently for the worst. It can happen. You must believe what I say.


I cannot believe how paranoid one person can be. "The sky is falling....."However you may have a point there. We had 8 years of Bush.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> I cannot begin to tell you how one person, one administration can change things permanently for the worst. It can happen. You must believe what I say.


Yes, I know all about Hitler and how he won a more or less democratic election. If that's the direction you're headed in, please stop.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Without government and regulations, what we are seeing in Bangledesh and other third world countries would be the norm.

Big profit for the factory owners at the cost of lives of many young and women. Yes indeed something to wish for.

How our ancestors would be proud of that!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Lukelucy, I have made it a rule not to attack people, just the things they say. You are making this very difficult. 

I find the USA a country of huge paradoxes. On the one hand, you are leaders in innovation of ideas, science and social issues. On the other, it looks like the developing world in terms of intolerance and acknowledgment that other countries actually exist and might be able to teach you something. It must be difficult being the only democratic superpower, probably like the British empire at its height in terms of arrogance, but there are other people out there.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> I agree that we are our brother's keepers. But the government has nothing to do with it.


Actually, the government has a lot to do with it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> I agree that we are our brother's keepers. But the government has nothing to do with it.


Of course it does--Medicaid, Medicare, and MediCal are government programs.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As far as I know they were going to tax clothing over 100.00 and boost the tobacco and liquor taxes. We all pay taxes.
> It is what makes our state as great as it is.
> We have low taxes compared to other cities in the US. You may pay a higher sales tax because of your location. I pay a local sales tax of 7 1/2 %


Our state sucks and is getting worse. How many non-tax paying can those who actually DO pay tax can we support?

Brat, I accept that you are from the hicks of the St. Cloud area (heck, my boys went to St. John's and they disparaged (look it up if you need a definition) the area on a regular basis) so you have no idea what we in the more civilized, metropolitan area experience. So, keep your unknowledgeable mouth to yourself. Given the percentage of those from your city that feed off of state assistance I can appreciate your desire to keep the dollars from us in the Metro area going.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Loans, scholarships = money from USA.


And you know that how?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Our state sucks and is getting worse. How many non-tax paying can those who actually DO pay tax can we support?
> 
> Brat, I accept that you are from the hicks of the St. Cloud area (heck, my boys went to St. John's and they disparaged (look it up if you need a definition) the area on a regular basis) so you have no idea what we in the more civilized, metropolitan area experience. So, keep your unknowledgeable mouth to yourself. Given the percentage of those from your city that feed off of state assistance I can appreciate your desire to keep the dollars from us in the Metro area going.


I laugh at that! :lol: :lol:


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> A scavenger like what? A private company that cares only about profit?


Company??? You work for free taking care of the elderly if that's what you do for a living. We are talking about the relatives of the elderly that STOLE the money they saved for their elder care.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I laugh at that! :lol: :lol:


No surprise. I realize that's all you _can_ do. That's all you have.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Company??? You work for free taking care of the elderly if that's what you do for a living. We are talking about the relatives of the elderly that STOLE the money they saved for their elder care.


Sorry, I misunderstood.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No surprise. I realize that's all you _can_ do. That's all you have.


You know what assuming does, thumper. You nothing about me or what I have and have not. For all you know (which isn't much) I'm surprised to hear you say that St Cloud has more people feeding off state money. Minneapolis is a much larger area with a larger population of needy people. I pay the same amount of state tax as every other Minnesotan. Sorry you were offended by our sales tax.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No surprise. I realize that's all you _can_ do. That's all you have.


Thumper you are so right about Minn. My brother said the same thing. He lived in Rochester.

Also saw last night your state is paying more for gas then the rest of us in the mid . 4.00 plus we are at 3.75 here.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Cheeky,
> 
> I agree that we are our brother's keepers. But the government has nothing to do with it.


Lukelucy why do you believe this? I don't know how old you are but what about Social Security, Medicare and Medicade and Public Education. We the people ARE the Government. Do you think we should do away with them or do we need them? We can only do so much as individuals, churches, etc. We pay taxes for many different things and I like to see my taxes go for caring for the people, infrastructure, education, medical care, the arts, science and many other things that make a country strong and decent. Towards the bottom of my list would be the military. What do you want this country to be remembered for 400 - 500 years from now it's decency or it's military might? We should be concerned about the legacy we are leaving for us and the rest of the world.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> "Not so. You have no real experience other than what you have been fed."
> 
> And you know that, how? Really thumper, you really don't know it all.


Um, because, as I stated I worked in the Fairview Healthcare system here in the non-hick city of Minneapolis?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Maybe you did not read what I wrote before. Other countries now surpass us in many ways. I agree with what you wrote.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Um, because, as I stated I worked in the Fairview Healthcare system here in the non-hick city of Minneapolis?


And my "hick" son from St Cloud works at Fairview University Hospital and lives in Minneapolis. What is your point?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just curious, thumper what company did you work for and what have you seen happen over the years. I live in your area and worked for United Healthcare for over 15 years and saw a lot of changes. Some good but not impressed by most. I believe in a civilized society that considers itself a first world nation healthcare should be a right for all. I also believe this because my spiritual belief is that I am my brother's keeper and if I have something I must share it with my brother. I consider it common decency and to do less would be morally wrong. My spiritual beliefs are not from the U.S. constitution. The constitution is a government document and was never intended to be a substitute for moral beliefs. I have always found that when I live by my principals and care for others I have always had enough too. I think karma works that way. Seems like to many people are keeping score and spend their lives worrying about somebody getting more than them or taking away something they think they are entitled to. We come in to the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. My faith is strong and I never have to worry. The creator does provide.


I openly stated the healthcare system I worked for. Read my posts.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I openly stated the healthcare system I worked for. Read my posts.


We actually try not to.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

The sad truth--sad for the conservatives, anyway--is that "socialized" medicine is already a fact of life in the US. Our uninsured elderly are covered by Medicare, our poor by Medicaid--and all the rest turn to the ER. Thumper is certainly correct in that this care is not free and the recipients will receive a bill for services rendered--whether they can pay it is quite another matter. 42% of the bankruptcies in 2010 were the result of medical crises.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just curious, thumper what company did you work for and what have you seen happen over the years. I live in your area and worked for United Healthcare for over 15 years and saw a lot of changes. Some good but not impressed by most. I believe in a civilized society that considers itself a first world nation healthcare should be a right for all. I also believe this because my spiritual belief is that I am my brother's keeper and if I have something I must share it with my brother. I consider it common decency and to do less would be morally wrong. My spiritual beliefs are not from the U.S. constitution. The constitution is a government document and was never intended to be a substitute for moral beliefs. I have always found that when I live by my principals and care for others I have always had enough too. I think karma works that way. Seems like to many people are keeping score and spend their lives worrying about somebody getting more than them or taking away something they think they are entitled to. We come in to the world with nothing and we leave with nothing. My faith is strong and I never have to worry. The creator does provide.


Again, as I stated, I'll put you on the list receiving care from those providers that were given their degrees, not because they possessed expertise, but because their institutions wanted them to 'feel good'.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am sorry that you feel you need to leave the state. But, again, our country needs some fixing. The same is happening here.
> 
> Taxation is only going to get worse under Barak.


Who is going to pay for what our country needs Lukelucy. Like it or not your government and mine runs on taxes. Do you know which modern day President raised taxes more than any other? I'll give you a clue, it isn't Obama. If you think you are paying too much in taxes complain to your congressman, that's what they are there for in your state and in Washington.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The sad truth--sad for the conservatives, anyway--is that "socialized" medicine is already a fact of life in the US. Our uninsured elderly are covered by Medicare, our poor by Medicaid--and all the rest turn to the ER. Thumper is certainly correct in that this care is not free and the recipients will receive a bill for services rendered--whether they can pay it is quite another matter. 42% of the bankruptcies in 2010 were the result of medical crises.


And many hospitals (at least the hick hospital ) in St Cloud has a charity program for those who can't pay.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You know what assuming does, thumper. You nothing about me or what I have and have not. For all you know (which isn't much) I'm surprised to hear you say that St Cloud has more people feeding off state money. Minneapolis is a much larger area with a larger population of needy people. I pay the same amount of state tax as every other Minnesotan. Sorry you were offended by our sales tax.


I don't need to know anything about you beyond what you post. That tells me everything I need to know about you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Thumper, you said this once before and, quite frankly, I didn't understand it the first time either. What medical schools give out degrees on a pity basis?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Our state sucks and is getting worse. How many non-tax paying can those who actually DO pay tax can we support?
> 
> Brat, I accept that you are from the hicks of the St. Cloud area (heck, my boys went to St. John's and they disparaged (look it up if you need a definition) the area on a regular basis) so you have no idea what we in the more civilized, metropolitan area experience. So, keep your unknowledgeable mouth to yourself. Given the percentage of those from your city that feed off of state assistance I can appreciate your desire to keep the dollars from us in the Metro area going.


Thumper who are all these freeloaders that you are supporting? I live where you do and I don't know who or where these people are.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And many hospitals (at least the hick hospital ) in St Cloud has a charity program for those who can't pay.


And we here in the civilized Metropolitan area pay more to pay for the hicks from there.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I don't need to know anything about you beyond what you post. That tells me everything I need to know about you.


And the same can be said about you, unfortunately.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper who are all these freeloaders that you are supporting? I live where you do and I don't know who or where these people are.


Try taking your head out of the sand and you might see a bit more beyond your cow pasture.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And we here in the civilized Metropolitan area pay more to pay for the hicks from there.


Well I guess anyone north or south of the cities is a hick in your book? Oh my thumper, you are a very angry person. The way you speak, I would put you in Otsego, and not the cultured city of Minneapolis or St Paul, where I did live for 10 years before moving to my current location.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Do you know that the main indicator of happiness of a country as a whole is the narrowness of the gap between rich and poor? I don't expect a response to this - it's late and wine has been taken.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Again, as I stated, I'll put you on the list receiving care from those providers that were given their degrees, not because they possessed expertise, but because their institutions wanted them to 'feel good'.


Thumper what are you saying? Who are the providers you talk about? What degrees? What institutions are you talking about? Your post makes absolutely no sense. Please explain.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Do you know that the main indicator of happiness of a country as a whole is the narrowness of the gap between rich and poor? I don't expect a response to this - it's late and wine has been taken.


Anne, slide a glass my way!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Anne, slide a glass my way!


Oh you. If only I could. I never do exclamation marks. Northern.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Anne, slide a glass my way!


Same here--trying to follow this conversation is already making my head spin!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thumper, you said this once before and, quite frankly, I didn't understand it the first time either. What medical schools give out degrees on a pity basis?


They don't...yet. But you keep talking about the wonderful 'public' school education. Given what I experienced with them they cater to the lowest common denominator. That's not what I want in my engineers, healthcare providers, etc. I want those who have an investment (read personal monetary investment and intellectual hunger) and expectation of reward for what they do. If we don't have that we end up with apathy. I don't want an apathetic doctor. Do you?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper who are all these freeloaders that you are supporting? I live where you do and I don't know who or where these people are.


But I don't live on the Milky Way.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well I guess anyone north or south of the cities is a hick in your book? Oh my thumper, you are a very angry person. The way you speak, I would put you in Otsego, and not the cultured city of Minneapolis or St Paul, where I did live for 10 years before moving to my current location.


Lived here all my life. I used to be proud of it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper what are you saying? Who are the providers you talk about? What degrees? What institutions are you talking about? Your post makes absolutely no sense. Please explain.


Since Thumper won't explain I'll take a stab at it--maybe she's suggesting that with universal healthcare those most qualified to be doctors will instead turn to business or law because the medical profession will no longer be as prestigious? Or that if all Americans have access to healthcare we'll need so many doctors that there won't be enough qualified people to go around?

Frankly I have no idea.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper what are you saying? Who are the providers you talk about? What degrees? What institutions are you talking about? Your post makes absolutely no sense. Please explain.


No


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Since Thumper won't explain I'll take a stab at it--maybe she's suggesting that with universal healthcare those most qualified to be doctors will instead turn to business or law because the medical profession will no longer be as prestigious? Or that if all Americans have access to healthcare we'll need so many doctors that there won't be enough qualified people to go around?
> 
> Frankly I have no idea.


Ah, but you got it! The hicks from small mind and town Minnesota didn't. Kudos to you!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, thanks for explaining what you meant, thumper.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Sure! I'll let you be the first patient attended by a doc given a degree, not because they possessed expertise in their discipline, but because the institution didn't want to hurt their feelings. Let me know how that works for you.


Where are the medical schools who do this thumper and who are the people getting these degrees? Do you know what it takes just to be accepted at any medical school in this country? I doubt it. Medical degrees are earned and not handed out to anyone.
Why are you so angry this evening?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Your comment sounds racist. he's scary, not because he's black but because of his lack of any kind of presidential worthy experience (even into his second term...geez, you guys will elect anything), his known policies, his unknown policies, his total lack of knowledge of anything not having to do with his golf game, and his complete ineptitude.


The racist would be you, thumper. You wear your biases and all your anger towards others on your sleeve. Why so angry?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Where are the medical schools who do this thumper and who are the people getting these degrees? Do you know what it takes just to be accepted at any medical school in this country? I doubt it. Medical degrees are earned and not handed out to anyone.
> Why are you so angry this evening?


Why am I angry? Because you guys are jerks!

In the future when I respond to you hicks I'll draw diagrams and use small words to increase the chances of your understanding what I post. That doesn't apply to you, Susan.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

She doesn't like people from St Cloud. Such a prejudiced person!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Now, now you were being nice a minute ago.


Sorry CB, You might want to ask thumper to be nice too. She is lashing out at everybody and I asked her nicely why.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Why am I angry? Because you guys are jerks!
> 
> In the future when I respond to you hicks I'll draw diagrams and use small words to increase the chances of your understanding what I post. That doesn't apply to you, Susan.


Geez, Cheeky, I think she's talking about us! I don't know how I will ever sleep tonight.
Susan, you're special.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

That's a tad patronizing Thumper, not to say insulting, when some of us just tried to open a line of conversation to understand.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

You see? Again with insults. Ungrammatical, I know, but it never works. Kill with kindness.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Thumper doesn't have a kind bone in her body.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sorry CB, You might want to ask thumper to be nice too. She is lashing out at everybody and I asked her nicely why.


You haven't posted a civil word to anyone beyond your band of thieves since I can remember, twit.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> They don't...yet. But you keep talking about the wonderful 'public' school education. Given what I experienced with them they cater to the lowest common denominator. That's not what I want in my engineers, healthcare providers, etc. I want those who have an investment (read personal monetary investment and intellectual hunger) and expectation of reward for what they do. If we don't have that we end up with apathy. I don't want an apathetic doctor. Do you?


Of course not...but I also don't think I want to be treated by a doctor who went into the profession only because it was prestigious, either.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Given what I do I can tell you that the government has been a huge driver in the costs associated with healthcare due to the ever increasing documentation and regulations associated with it. Every 6 months or so the rules are changed and they want more information. When I go to the doctor, do I answer every question asked of me honestly, knowing the information is available to the government? Absolutely not. Nor should you.
> 
> To all the nasty gals, I'm not saying that any regulation is wrong. Get over it. However, every government regulation has a cost.
> 
> Let's talk about the cost of caring for elderly who had money saved up for their last years and the kids spent it all on themselves. Cars, booze, gambling, trips, etc. As a healthcare worker would you work for free to care for them because their kids were selfish? The majority of them act as if, when they are put in a LTC facility, they're already dead and the money is theirs. It happens more often than you would like to think.


Thumper, who are the "nasty gals"? What's this about kids spending their parent's money? What are you talking about? Did this happen to someone you know?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You haven't posted a civil word to anyone beyond your band of thieves since I can remember, twit.


Thumper learned a CLEAN word tonite!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Our state sucks and is getting worse. How many non-tax paying can those who actually DO pay tax can we support?
> 
> Brat, I accept that you are from the hicks of the St. Cloud area (heck, my boys went to St. John's and they disparaged (look it up if you need a definition) the area on a regular basis) so you have no idea what we in the more civilized, metropolitan area experience. So, keep your unknowledgeable mouth to yourself. Given the percentage of those from your city that feed off of state assistance I can appreciate your desire to keep the dollars from us in the Metro area going.


Thumper I have lived in St. Cloud and now live in the metro area. St. Cloud is every bit as nice as the metro and a lot nicer than some areas here. Why did you let your kids go to school at St. John's if the St. Cloud area is so dangerous? Your sons must have very good jobs if they graduated from St. John's. What were their degrees in? Why would they say bad things about St. Cloud?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And we here in the civilized Metropolitan area pay more to pay for the hicks from there.


Thumper that is not true. If anything more money comes from out state and flows into the metro area. Educate yourself.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

St Cloud is a beautiful area! Lots of lakes around us, St Ben's, St John's and St Cloud State Universities. The Mississippi River,nice theaters, great restaurants and clubs, and some very nice shopping. The crime rate is much lower than the cities. I don't know why anyone would call this a hick town. I think she's from Buffalo or Otsego.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Um, because, as I stated I worked in the Fairview Healthcare system here in the non-hick city of Minneapolis?


What did you do there, Thumper that gave you this vast knowledge of the healthcare system you say you have?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Since Thumper won't explain I'll take a stab at it--maybe she's suggesting that with universal healthcare those most qualified to be doctors will instead turn to business or law because the medical profession will no longer be as prestigious? Or that if all Americans have access to healthcare we'll need so many doctors that there won't be enough qualified people to go around?
> 
> Frankly I have no idea.


I don't know if that's what she meant, but those will be two consequences of obamacare - if it's not repealed, that is.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper I have lived in St. Cloud and now live in the metro area. St. Cloud is every bit as nice as the metro and a lot nicer than some areas here. Why did you let your kids go to school at St. John's if the St. Cloud area is so dangerous? Your sons must have very good jobs if they graduated from St. John's. What were their degrees in? Why would they say bad things about St. Cloud?


I'm sorry. I guess I didn't use small enough words for you when I originally posted. I used the word "disparaged". It's not the same thing as dangerous. Do you need one of us to define it for you? I'm sure any number of us would be happy to lift you out of the illiterate world you live in. Knowledge is empowerment!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

This all is pretty strange--always we split along political lines, this is the first time I've seen any kind of regional division.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course not...but I also don't think I want to be treated by a doctor who went into the profession only because it was prestigious, either.


And how about the intriguing revelation that the woman who was in charge of IRS targeting conservatives is now in charge of our health care. Since I'm pro-life and support the tea party, I guess I'll get the obamapill instead of the operation.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What did you do there, Thumper that gave you this vast knowledge of the healthcare system you say you have?


Geez, how may times do I have to repeat myself for you guys. READ MY POSTS!! I was very explicit (that means clear as to leaving no room for doubt) in what I did and for whom. Let me know if you need illustrations (pictures).


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> And how about the intriguing revelation that the woman who was in charge of IRS targeting conservatives is now in charge of our health care. Since I'm pro-life and support the tea party, I guess I'll get the obamapill instead of the operation.


Whatever trips your trigger!


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Whatever trips your trigger!


Well, that information sure does.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I don't know if that's what she meant, but those will be two consequences of obamacare - if it's not repealed, that is.


It won't get repealed. It won't pass the senate and if by chance it does, the prez has power of the pen to veto. 
However, I wish those boneheads in the Tea Party would get that through their heads and stop wasting our time by trying to repeal it 37 times.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It won't get repealed. It won't pass the senate and if by cahnce it does, the prez has power of the pen to veto.
> However, I wish those boneheads in the Tea Party would get that through their heads and stop wasting our time by trying to repeal it 37 times.


Annoying, isn't it? As annoying as being delayed 23 months in getting tax-exempt status due to illegal discrimination on the basis of political beliefs.

I see your avatar is holding her head. Apparently she is worried that heads will roll.

Signing out.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> And how about the intriguing revelation that the woman who was in charge of IRS targeting conservatives is now in charge of our health care. Since I'm pro-life and support the tea party, I guess I'll get the obamapill instead of the operation.


Believe me, I'm no fan of the IRS--if I had my druthers I'd sack every one of them and start over. But from what I understand their actions weren't motivated by their own political views. And under Obamacare all they're likely to be interested in is your refund check, not your political affiliations.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Look at what the IRS has done to vetertens.http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/05/16677-new-evidence-irs-laundering-money-from-veterans-disability-checks/


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Annoying, isn't it? As annoying as being delayed 23 months in getting tax-exempt status due to illegal discrimination on the basis of political beliefs.
> 
> I see your avatar is holding her head. Apparently she is worried that heads will roll.
> 
> Signing out.


Of course you are. No she is holding her head because she can't believe the nonsense she is reading here


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Do you know that the main indicator of happiness of a country as a whole is the narrowness of the gap between rich and poor? I don't expect a response to this - it's late and wine has been taken.


Hi Anne- My reply to you is that I would agree the smaller the gap the happier everyone is. As you see tonight there are a lot of unhappy Americans, Thumper being the one who is supporting all the nere do wells in the country. She is one angry woman. Sleep well, Anne.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Well, that information sure does.


It's all she knows on the way of details. Anything beyond that would be lost on her.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Anne- My reply to you is that I would agree the smaller the gap the happier everyone is. As you see tonight there are a lot of unhappy Americans, Thumper being the one who is supporting all the nere do wells in the country. She is one angry woman. Sleep well, Anne.


*sigh*. It's ne'er do well. But I'll be patient and understanding given that you're an illiterate hick.

I'm not particularly angry as much as I am fed up with you guys.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Try taking your head out of the sand and you might see a bit more beyond your cow pasture.


I live in a city, no cow pasture here, Thumper. Why so angry this evening?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

CB, If it was a more moderate site I might look at it.
Pretty soon the IRS and Obama will be responsible for tsunamis, earthquakes, and floods and the next swarm of locusts to buzz through the country.
I don't condone by any means what the workers in the IRS have done. They have targeted liberal groups, too. It was unfair to anyone waiting for a tax exemption.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> *sigh*. It's ne'er do well. But I'll be patient and understanding given that you're an illiterate hick.
> 
> I'm not particularly angry as much as I am fed up with you guys.


Well, we are just as fed up with you.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I live in a city, no cow pasture here, Thumper. Why so angry this evening?


Look in the mirror.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Look in the mirror.


Oh my, my. Someone has a bee in her bonnet tonight.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Lived here all my life. I used to be proud of it.


What neighborhood do you live in Thumper? Did you grow up in that neighborhood? I have lived in Minneapolis since 1970 and now live in **** Rapids. Just south of Bachmannville,MN. Maybe you would be happier out there. I think you would be more at home with people who think like you do.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Annoying, isn't it? As annoying as being delayed 23 months in getting tax-exempt status due to illegal discrimination on the basis of political beliefs.
> 
> I see your avatar is holding her head. Apparently she is worried that heads will roll.
> 
> Signing out.


It may be annoying, but these are the facts, Bonnie. Did you personally have to wait 23 months to get tax exempt status?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I'm out of here for the night. I'm tire of dealing with the ninnies. I've better things to do. Peace out...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm out of here for the night. I'm tire of dealing with the ninnies. I've better things to do. Peace out...


Hugs and kisses, thumper


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hugs and kisses, thumper


Up yours.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/05/16677-new-evidence-irs-laundering-money-from-veterans-disability-checks/http://www.mrconservative.com/2013/05/16677-new-evidence-irs-laundering-money-from-veterans-disability-checks/ What about these Patty? My computer was messed up. This the same thing I posted before. Yikes!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Geez, Cheeky, I think she's talking about us! I don't know how I will ever sleep tonight.
> Susan, you're special.


Geez Patty, I think thumper is talking about us! How will we ever recover from this snub. Susan would you give me and Patty lessons so Thumper will like us? Oh Patty, good news! Can you hear the music. It's "Dance to the Music". Come on Patty Cheeky's feet are already moving and my hips are starting to sway to the music. Let's dance, Patty! Come on Anne and Susan and Momto2 we can all dance together. Are you feeling the beat,Patty! Now we are having a party. Hope you all are joining in! Just slide across the floor and feel the music. Any special requests just shout them out.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:    :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Up yours.


Up yours what, Thumper? Poor, Thumper such an unhappy camper you are. What seems to be your problem tonight?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm sorry. I guess I didn't use small enough words for you when I originally posted. I used the word "disparaged". It's not the same thing as dangerous. Do you need one of us to define it for you? I'm sure any number of us would be happy to lift you out of the illiterate world you live in. Knowledge is empowerment!


You are funny thumper. Let me put it this way so you will understand. Why would your well educated, well bred sons "disparage" others unless they were a pair of ill bred bums. Friends and relatives who have attended St. John's have a lot of class and don't carry on like you are doing this evening. It would be beneath them to act so crudely, kind of like how you are behaving out here this evening. Something about you is showing this evening thumper and it really isn't at all attractive. Where do you live anyway?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Geez Patty, I think thumper is talking about us! How will we ever recover from this snub. Susan would you give me and Patty lessons so Thumper will like us? Oh Patty, good news! Can you hear the music. It's "Dance to the Music". Come on Patty Cheeky's feet are already moving and my hips are starting to sway to the music. Let's dance, Patty! Come on Anne and Susan and Momto2 we can all dance together. Are you feeling the beat,Patty! Now we are having a party. Hope you all are joining in! Just slide across the floor and feel the music. Any special requests just shout them out.
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:    :thumbup: :thumbup:


Oh yeah.........


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I think Thumper ran away, Patty. She sure was crabby tonight. I wonder why she wouldn't answer our questions? I hope she is in a better mood tomorrow. I had a great evening. Lots of nice conversation.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I've experienced your health care on land and on sea and the word that describes it, is dismal. Certainly below the level provided in the USA. And once ocare is fully implemented in the USA we will experience superficial, depressed care foreign to our country. I doubt if the average Brit knows what good health care encompasses because they have never experienced it.



aw9358 said:


> I am so glad that we have a National Health Service still, free at the point of use. Our minority Conservative government is hell-bent on privatising the best thing this country has ever done for its people, and the US health-care companies are circling like the vultures they are. The arguments you are having are completely alien to me, for which I give thanks to our post-war socialist government.
> 
> I cannot imagine anything worse than worrying about how to pay for getting and staying well. Last year I broke my wrist and had two operations. All I had to think about was getting better. I also have long-term problems which won't kill me but are quite painful. I have just completed a ten-session pain management course that cost nothing. There are worse things than "socialised" medicine.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Who can say??


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Really?

On a train going from Toronto to Vancouver I met a lady who lived in Canada, had minor surgery (gall stone) and she told me she needed knee replacements and would need to wait 6 months post surgery for her one knee and then a year for the other. She was surprised that I had two knee replacements within 4 months of each other and with no waiting period.

Now isn't that awesome? But I have since learned that the quality and availability of health care in Canada varies from Province to Province. Nova Scotia has better than others.



BrattyPatty said:


> So is Canada, and Japan. There health systems are awesome!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Wasn't it AL Gore?



Lukelucy said:


> You tell me, who invented the internet?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Wasn't it AL Gore?


 :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

This is already happening....the brightest are no longer choosing medicine as a career choice. And the projected need for internists is not currently being met.



susanmos2000 said:


> Since Thumper won't explain I'll take a stab at it--maybe she's suggesting that with universal healthcare those most qualified to be doctors will instead turn to business or law because the medical profession will no longer be as prestigious? Or that if all Americans have access to healthcare we'll need so many doctors that there won't be enough qualified people to go around?
> 
> Frankly I have no idea.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, no hammer and sickle. However, where do these countries stand with innovation, world power, creativity, standard of living?
> 
> The standard of living in these countries is SO MUCH LOWER THAN OURS. Have you been there, seen it? I could never live there and have their lower standard of living. I have seen it.
> 
> ...


How great is a country that treats disabled, elderly, unemployed, uninsured, homeless like we do?? Virtually all civilized countries have free health care that is supported by the taxes their citizwns pay. Don't tell me how awful their socialized medicine is when our infant mortality rate ranks us 34th in that area.
You ladies of the right should toss away your Ayn Rand novels and live your Christianity instead of "me, me, me, me."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Given what I do I can tell you that the government has been a huge driver in the costs associated with healthcare due to the ever increasing documentation and regulations associated with it. Every 6 months or so the rules are changed and they want more information. When I go to the doctor, do I answer every question asked of me honestly, knowing the information is available to the government? Absolutely not. Nor should you.
> 
> To all the nasty gals, I'm not saying that any regulation is wrong. Get over it. However, every government regulation has a cost.
> 
> Let's talk about the cost of caring for elderly who had money saved up for their last years and the kids spent it all on themselves. Cars, booze, gambling, trips, etc. As a healthcare worker would you work for free to care for them because their kids were selfish? The majority of them act as if, when they are put in a LTC facility, they're already dead and the money is theirs. It happens more often than you would like to think.


I for one want government rules and regulations when they pertain to my health care. Hospitals, clinics, health insurance companies don't regulate themselves, do they? I simply don't believe that the government is the primary entity driving up healthcare costs. What about all the for-profit health insurance companies. The last I looked they were raising prices without any help from the government, and their profits were doing just fine.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Are you afraid of conservative sites?


Hardly. They just have the same old conspiracy, Obamacare is killing us, we don't want to pay taxes, I hate Obama, and dooms day vitriol. They actually bore me. I have no problem reading moderate conservative sites. There are some pretty god ideas in them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> [quote thumper}
> "To all the nasty gals, I'm not saying that any regulation is wrong. Get over it. However, every government regulation has a cost.
> 
> And has since 1776


God, Bratty, are you one of the nasty girls?? I can't believe who's talking here!!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I for one want government rules and regulations when they pertain to my health care. Hospitals, clinics, health insurance companies don't regulate themselves, do they? I simply don't believe that the government is the primary entity driving up healthcare costs. What about all the for-profit health insurance companies. The last I looked they were raising prices without any help from the government, and their profits were doing just fine.


Yes, ask Yarnie, she said hers went up 80%.!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> God, Bratty, are you one of the nasty girls?? I can't believe who's talking here!!!


I just gave her a bit of her own medicine tonight. Her mouth really needs to be cleaned out and as Janeway would say
"she was being so hateful". 
Yes I agree, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe she will sleep it off.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> God, Bratty, are you one of the nasty girls?? I can't believe who's talking here!!!


I just gave her a bit of her own medicine tonight. Her mouth really needs to be cleaned out and as Janeway would say
"she was being so hateful". 
Yes I agree, it was like the pot calling the kettle black. Maybe she will sleep it off.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You are right, no hammer and sickle. However, where do these countries stand with innovation, world power, creativity, standard of living?
> 
> The standard of living in these countries is SO MUCH LOWER THAN OURS. Have you been there, seen it? I could never live there and have their lower standard of living. I have seen it.
> 
> ...


I have lived and paid taxes in a country with "socialized medicine." Contrary to your opinion, living in this country was very civilized. We lived very well.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I for one want government rules and regulations when they pertain to my health care. Hospitals, clinics, health insurance companies don't regulate themselves, do they? I simply don't believe that the government is the primary entity driving up healthcare costs. What about all the for-profit health insurance companies. The last I looked they were raising prices without any help from the government, and their profits were doing just fine.


It's just something else to blame the president for. Most don't know what options are out there for them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Do you know that the main indicator of happiness of a country as a whole is the narrowness of the gap between rich and poor? I don't expect a response to this - it's late and wine has been taken.


And we have a gigantic gap between the rich and the poor, and it's growing wider. The rich like it that way. The lower middle class has fallen to a lesser category and the middle class is being strangled. Why middle class people can't see this and keep voting republican against their best interests slays me!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Geez! Our company left and I'm sitting here reading this mess of a conversation. Thumper might be enlightened to know that many people think the whole state of Minnesota is Hicksville. Calling someone a twit isn't the same as calling someone an "a-hole." Once again I'm beginning to believe Thumper is a man who packs heat and talks like a saloon owner.
I think there's some kind of paranoia creeping through the ranks on the right. They're always afraid big, bad government is coming to get them and their money. And they're really afraid of Obama, who for some reason is now known as "Barak." Wake up, ladies of the right. You're fearing the wrong group. The poor aren't trying to subjugate you, it's the wealthy. They want you to get poorer so they can have all the wealth and power for themselves. Then you'll be looking to the government for protection amd help.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Duh...because they have nothing substantive to talk about?



BrattyPatty said:


> I had to laugh. I saw a clip of Shawn Hannity whining because a Marine was holding an umbrella for President Obama.
> Sarah Palin commented "Can't the guy hold his own umbrella?
> Next they showed Palin deplaning during her VP campaign with a man holding an umbrella over her head. There were a couple of more clips showing an umbrella held for Clinton and GW Bush.
> Where do they find the time to nit pick so much about nothing??


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks, Andrea. We had good inspiration from you. Onward!



alcameron said:


> Ooh, Cheeky and Bratty!! What a duo! I'm so glad you came back. A few months ago I was out here almost alone for awhile. Susan, SS, Peacegoddess, and a few lone voices had to carry the load. I'm glad Suzi and Dame Ingried are back, too. And NJG. I wonder what ever happened to pardoquilts? I think she got sick and tired of the garbage.
> Anyway, you're doing a great job!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How about experiencing life?

Health care is a basic need provided by developed nations. USA has most expensive 'free' system and one of the worst outcomes. We are being ripped off by the corporations and middlemen involved in our health care industry. And we're wasting our time blaming the 'gummint.'

Does this seem nutty to anyone but me?



thumper5316 said:


> At what point, in our history, did health insurance become a 'right'? Separate 'right' from needing healthcare. I'm just curious as someone who has watched and experienced the evolution of healthcare and the insurance product.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yup. If you're wounded, go ahead and die.



MOMTO2 said:


> So it's a right to own a gun, but do not get sick!!!
> 
> Is that the bottom line?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the personal information about 'socialized medicine.' I've never understood why it is supposed to be bad. Much better than the mess the USA is in. Small steps don't fix the problems.



aw9358 said:


> I am so glad that we have a National Health Service still, free at the point of use. Our minority Conservative government is hell-bent on privatising the best thing this country has ever done for its people, and the US health-care companies are circling like the vultures they are. The arguments you are having are completely alien to me, for which I give thanks to our post-war socialist government.
> 
> I cannot imagine anything worse than worrying about how to pay for getting and staying well. Last year I broke my wrist and had two operations. All I had to think about was getting better. I also have long-term problems which won't kill me but are quite painful. I have just completed a ten-session pain management course that cost nothing. There are worse things than "socialised" medicine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Al Gore?



Lukelucy said:


> You tell me, who invented the internet?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?
> 
> Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or an ounce of smart?



BrattyPatty said:


> Thumper doesn't have a kind bone in her body.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This must have been a busy evening. I actually tried to read it all to catch up, and found it very hard to follow. 

I did learn some new things. Apparently students are looking for more lucrative majors now that Obamacare is ruining the industry. (I'm so old that I remember when people joined the Health Care industry to help people.)

Minnesota has a wrong side of the tracks, but it's hard to tell what the wrong side is without living there. 

There is a new topic: Tar Sands. Great discussion and information.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She has no clue, Ann. Just a bellyacher and an Obama hater.


.. and a xenaphobe, to boot!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Better topic


Why when Virginia's Board of Health instituted stricter regulations so that abortion clinics are as safe as hospitals, libs went insane? I thought libs love government regulations, especially those that protect women's health.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I've experienced your health care on land and on sea and the word that describes it, is dismal. Certainly below the level provided in the USA. And once ocare is fully implemented in the USA we will experience superficial, depressed care foreign to our country. I doubt if the average Brit knows what good health care encompasses because they have never experienced it.


Greetings from the third world. Thank you so much for your insight into my homeland. I had no idea I have experienced dismal health care for over 50 years.

Seriously though, why did you adopt such a sneering tone? It does nothing for your argument.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I've experienced your health care on land and on sea and the word that describes it, is dismal. Certainly below the level provided in the USA. And once ocare is fully implemented in the USA we will experience superficial, depressed care foreign to our country. I doubt if the average Brit knows what good health care encompasses because they have never experienced it.


Greetings from the third world. Thank you so much for your insight into my homeland. I had no idea I have experienced dismal health care for over 50 years.

Seriously though, why did you adopt such a sneering tone? It does nothing for your argument.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Al Gore?


Oh you are too funny an old joke.
All Al Gore did was make a fortune off people with his gobal warming. then bought his big cars, jet planes, big house, dump the wife, and lived happly ever after.

But still love the old joke.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Greetings from the third world. Thank you so much for your insight into my homeland. I had no idea I have experienced dismal health care for over 50 years.
> 
> Seriously though, why did you adopt such a sneering tone? It does nothing for your argument.


Seems to me it was the other way around. What a bunch of leftie swirl, you live to go off on a tangent.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Still pondering why lefties were so upset about Virginia tightening up health codes for abortion clinics. Regulations to make them as safe as hospitals. And they think we want back alley type abortions. Classic


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Still pondering why lefties were so upset about Virginia tightening up health codes for abortion clinics. Regulations to make them as safe as hospitals. And they think we want back alley type abortions. Classic


Not to worry they swing both ways depending on what they think at the time if at all.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> How about experiencing life?
> 
> Health care is a basic need provided by developed nations. USA has most expensive 'free' system and one of the worst outcomes. We are being ripped off by the corporations and middlemen involved in our health care industry. And we're wasting our time blaming the 'gummint.'
> 
> Does this seem nutty to anyone but me?


You failed to answer my question. Or did you fail reading comprehension in school?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Still pondering why lefties were so upset about Virginia tightening up health codes for abortion clinics. Regulations to make them as safe as hospitals. And they think we want back alley type abortions. Classic


I have no problem with regular inspections, but the architectural demands are something else again. Five-foot-wide public hallways? Bigger janitors closets? Ridiculous.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Seems to me it was the other way around. What a bunch of leftie swirl, you live to go off on a tangent.


Mean and unnecessary and inaccurate.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Better topic
> 
> Why when Virginia's Board of Health instituted stricter regulations so that abortion clinics are as safe as hospitals, libs went insane? I thought libs love government regulations, especially those that protect women's health.


Did the regs include trans-vaginal ultra sounds? Was that to protect women? Tell us about the regs.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> How great is a country that treats disabled, elderly, unemployed, uninsured, homeless like we do?? Virtually all civilized countries have free health care that is supported by the taxes their citizwns pay. Don't tell me how awful their socialized medicine is when our infant mortality rate ranks us 34th in that area.
> You ladies of the right should toss away your Ayn Rand novels and live your Christianity instead of "me, me, me, me."


Our tax dollars are being used for the "obama vacation fund," transportation to important events such as golf games, hobnobbing with the rich and famous, and White House "entertainment events" for the royal family, so we can scarcely afford to pay for health care for the disabled, elderly, unemployed, uninsured, and homeless.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Did the regs include trans-vaginal ultra sounds? Was that to protect women? Tell us about the regs.


No answer--guess the self-proclaimed advocate of women's health can't explain why it's so crucial that every abortion clinic has an awning over the entrance and at least one drinking fountain in the waiting room.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 wrote:
Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?

Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.

Its actually quite frightening how little you know about your allies, your neighbours and others.

It's almost insulting



damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Momto2 and Damemary:

Americans have great admiration for other countries, as seen in our constant efforts to encourage them to visit, to educate their students, to buy their products, to visit their countries, and to learn about and honor their culture.

When the United States has ever prevailed in a conflict, we have forgiven debts owed us - huge debts - and sent financial and humanitarian aid to those who had been doing battle against us.

As for our allies, I'm surprised that you haven't noticed the respect American citizens have for them. In fact, we are committed to help them financially and to fight to the death for them. By that I mean that Americans will go anywhere in the world to fight alongside our allies and to die for their cause. That is as deep a devotion as you will find anywhere in this world.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Thank you OffKnit for shining the spotlight on your home state of Virginia. A little humor is always appreciated, and your Governor wannabe Ken Cuccinelli provides it by the barrel full. Love his "family-friendly" version of the state seal (which covers Virtus' exposed left breast with a shield) and his efforts to deny unemployment benefits to those who don't speak English. Sure explains a lot about some of your more amazing posts.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

bonbf3 I find your post condescending.

There is no question that the Americans have a very strong military. There is no question that you do not help out countries financially. There is no doubt that you jump to the aid of other countries.

How condescening of you to encourage me to visit and educate my students buy your products. How wonderful for me.

However I still stand by what I said, generally speaking most Americans have no clue about my country. I find that sad.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3,

Right on with your answer. The money is already there, but it is going to the politicians, particularly Barak. He sure does like to party.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Our tax dollars are being used for the "obama vacation fund," transportation to important events such as golf games, hobnobbing with the rich and famous, and White House "entertainment events" for the royal family, so we can scarcely afford to pay for health care for the disabled, elderly, unemployed, uninsured, and homeless.


If you really believe that, you are swallowing the right wing propaganda. If everything you said about transportation, vacations, etc. even were true, it wouldn't amount to a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. Wake up before the upper class takes over. They're already leading you around like a blind person.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> MOMTO2 wrote:
> Lukelucy you honestly believe that no other country is as innovative, creative and enjoy a good standard of living?
> 
> Wow, so many other awsome countries besides yours out there in the world.
> ...


We have many great colleges and universities, but our elementary and high schools give our students much less than schools in other countries. Europeans are given a much better general education and know much more about the world than our students.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> bonbf3 I find your post condescending.
> 
> There is no question that the Americans have a very strong military. There is no question that you do not help out countries financially. There is no doubt that you jump to the aid of other countries.
> 
> ...


MOMTO2:

I didn't mean to be condescending at all, and I apologize if it sounded that way. I meant that we welcome students from other countries who want to come here and study. We are glad to have them. We also enjoy meeting people from other countries who come to visit. I meant to convey that we welcome people from other countries, we enjoy having them here, we like meeting them and befriending them and learning about them.

Americans also love to visit other countries to meet the people, see the countryside, and participate in the culture. (Although I'm not a traveler myself but would like to be.) I also meant that we buy a lot of products from other countries because we like those products.

I guess I really missed the mark when I wrote that post. I don't know how I came across so opposite of what I intended. I hope I've cleared up that misunderstanding.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> bonbf3 I find your post condescending.
> 
> There is no question that the Americans have a very strong military. There is no question that you do not help out countries financially. There is no doubt that you jump to the aid of other countries.
> 
> ...


We're the biggest and the best, dontcha know? <sarcasm>


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We have many great colleges and universities, but our elementary and high schools give our students much less than schools in other countries. Europeans are given a much better general education and know much more about the world than our students.


THen they probably are not the ones who want to come here and study.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I have just been notified that my health care costs are increasing by 10%. That is a HUGE amount of money. I guess I need to help pay for all the people who do not have health insurance - including people who smoke, do not want to work, etc....
> 
> And Obama said that costs would not increase. What a liar.


Well mine did not increase. And our company increased their matching portion of our 401K this year as business is doing better.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No we aren't. Especially with this president hurrying us along down the road of ruin.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> We're the biggest and the best, dontcha know? <sarcasm>


Not the biggest and the best, but I do think we're open and welcoming and friendly. Except on KP, of course.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Glad that you will be ok. Many people aren't. This increase will put a big dent on an income that can't take it.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I've spent my Sunday morning defending my country and myself, and now I'm leaving. This topic is not for me. I'm an American - open and welcoming and friendly. Some of the people on here spit in the face of that, so I'm off to greener pastures. I tried to come back, but yuck. I'd forgotten how unhealthy both Smoking AND Obamacare are. I hope you all can find a nicer way to talk to each other and a nicer place to chat. This is not a nice place.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I managed to catch up on the 10 pages of discussion here that I missed because I didn't have time to keep up with this topic. I have to ask, how contradictory can you get? People want better free public education for their children, better health care, more police and firefighters, better roads and sidewalks, ect., but aren't willing to acknowledge those things all come with a pricetag. To improve any of these things, it will cost more. The money comes from our taxes. To get more money for better public services, we're going to have to pay more which means higher taxes.

I appreciate the remarks from those of you who aren't Americans. You come from great countries and seem to understand what it means to have certain nationalized services. The US would do well to imitate some of what your countries have accomplished. 

After a few seconds of polite discussion, I see some of you are back to the old mud-slinging, name calling method of trying to get your points across. How likely do you think it is that anyone will agree with someone whose posts are angry and demeaning? :thumbdown:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I bet you'd feel different if you were getting insurance for the first time. Personally, I think they would have been better off expanding the Medicare system to include everyone, but I guess people would complain even louder about socialized medicine. The Medicare system is already in place and would have been much easier to implement and would have been much easier for us to navigate.


This is exactly what my doctor said - that it would be much cheaper to expand Medicare than require everyone obtain individual health insurance.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

bonbf3,
Sorry to see you go. Your ideas are great. But, I can understand how you cannot tolerate this nastiness any longer.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MOMTO2 said:


> I still do not understand, why are you not angry with your insurers????
> 
> I think that they, as well as your pharmaceutical lobbyists drive a good portion of your medical care.
> 
> Believe me, insurers are not not thinking of your health - the bottom line is profit!


So true!!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Insurers care much more about one's health than the government.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> We have always had a government, you twit.


And....I think the new healthcare issue is innovative - at least it's a step that no one else was willing to take on.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Bonbf3 thank you for clarifying that for me.

I did not comment to spit in your face, in my opinion as a Non-Ameriucan it felt condescending.

I am interested in the world around me, I read newspapers, listen to news of many different areas. It interests me.

In school we were taught many things about America, Europe, and our own country. Our news generally gives us an oversite as to what is going on around the world.

We are all proud of where we come from, and sometimes I find AMericans are very dismissive of those who do not come from the US. I have found in many encounters with Americans that you see Canadians as being lumberjacks and living in igloos. I find it disheartening for I love my country as much as you love yours.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> This is exactly what my doctor said - that it would be much cheaper to expand Medicare than require everyone obtain individual health insurance.


Federal employees also have their own health plan. I thought it might be a good idea to expand that, but it hasn't happened. While I am glad that more people will have access to health care through "Obamacare", it seems unfortunate that another system for delivering health care is being created, instead of expanding Medicare and/or the Federal employees plan.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> This is exactly what my doctor said - that it would be much cheaper to expand Medicare than require everyone obtain individual health insurance.


True, but I get the feeling that Obamacare is far from a done deal. The conservatives have made repealing the thing their #1 priority--if we'd simply expanded Medicare it too might suffer the same fate, and whatever happens we have to provide coverage for seniors.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> well, let's see, Germany is way ahead in innovation and a wonderful country to live in. They pay taxes there too, and in return have good jobs, economy and great health care.
> Our country will never lose it's greatness. We've been down before and bounced back. It's the Republicans and Tea Party who are stopping any kind of legislature to improve our situation.


I agree with your assessment of Germany. I work for a company whose headquarters are in Germany and I recently read that they are a leading country.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> There is nothing like a bunch of scavengers, piranhas who want the money of the elderly. Unbelievable. People will do anything (and justify it in their minds) to scoop up whatever they can from the elderly.
> 
> My aunt was taken for SO MUCH MONEY from a scavenger like that. Pitiful.
> 
> People prey on the elderly.


I'm not sure you the "they" are that you are referring to and I'm not sure what your point is.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> We are all proud of where we come from, and sometimes I find AMericans are very dismissive of those who do not come from the US. I have found in many encounters with Americans that you see Canadians as being lumberjacks and living in igloos. I find it disheartening for I love my country as much as you love yours.


That's true, unfortunately--many Americans do seem to view Canada as a sort of extension of the US, failing to recognize that it's a separate country with its own unique history.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Maybe their healthcare systems are great. But they are stealing our ideas. No creativity there. Freedom = innovation and growth. And some people in our country do not understand this.


Are you kidding? The Japanese are way ahead of us in technology and same with Germany in regard to environmental measures.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I live in Minnesota. I am heavily taxed. I pay city taxes, county taxes, in the city I live I pay a larger sales tax than those in other parts of our state, healthcare tax, property tax, cigarette tax, liquor tax, anything that isn't nailed down tax. And yet our state feels that isn't enough and they are coming up with more ways to tax us. My DH an I, after living here all our lives, are investigating leaving the state. It breaks our hearts.


That's the state government, not the federal. Vote out those politicians!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Not the biggest and the best, but I do think we're open and welcoming and friendly. Except on KP, of course.


Open and friendly, yes--my foreign-born husband has said as much many times. But we're also elitist and condescending toward other nations, and that's a shame.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Patty don't call Lukelucy names. We were having a nice conversation without name calling. Please?


 :thumbup:


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Lukelucy do you honestly believe that your insurere cares more for you than your government?

Your comment surprises me. I would disagree your insurer, bottom line cares about profit they care about the almighty dollar only. 

Did they not just pass a law to take preexisting conditions out of play??? Believe me those conditions are there to protect their bottom line being profit.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> And he got his education at MIT - which is in the good old USA. So, he took from here and used it. Hummm.


And we ALL benefitted. Hooray for immigrants.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Susan,
> 
> Did you read what I said? Many countries surpass us. And they will continue to surpass us in many more ways because of what is happening in our country.


Not because of what is happening in the US, because they have people who are as creative and innovative as Americans. Everyone has something to offer.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Company??? You work for free taking care of the elderly if that's what you do for a living. We are talking about the relatives of the elderly that STOLE the money they saved for their elder care.


Then that is their problem, isn't it? You can't fix that so why go on about it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Lukelucy do you honestly believe that your insurere cares more for you than your government?
> 
> Your comment surprises me. I would disagree your insurer, bottom line cares about profit they care about the almighty dollar only.
> 
> Did they not just pass a law to take preexisting conditions out of play??? Believe me those conditions are there to protect their bottom line being profit.


I'm not sure if she'll respond, but many Americans are scared stiff of their insurance providers. I think the fact that they can yank your coverage pretty much whenever they want to keeps people from speaking up about the abuses that go on. The really have us over a barrel--to a person with chronic health problems being uninsured is an absolute nightmare.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Thumper you are so right about Minn. My brother said the same thing. He lived in Rochester.
> 
> Also saw last night your state is paying more for gas then the rest of us in the mid . 4.00 plus we are at 3.75 here.


$3.43 here.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Maybe you did not read what I wrote before. Other countries now surpass us in many ways. I agree with what you wrote.


It's not a competition. This is now a global economy which we did not experience as much in the past. Fortunately, we can do so now due to travel, internet, etc. We are all in this together.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> $3.43 here.


Lucky! It's over four dollars a gallon here (coastal California).


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> And my "hick" son from St Cloud works at Fairview University Hospital and lives in Minneapolis. What is your point?


Good for you if you can figure it out!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Anne, slide a glass my way!


Me too please!!


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

That is exactly what I don't get Susan.

I work in the insurance industry, not health, and I see what the comanies do here and believe me bottom line is profit. I'm not fooled that they advertise they are going to do it all for me - that's crazy!!! 

I have lupus, it is controlled and I am one of the lucky ones, but I know that when I go to my doctor, or the hospital that I am going to get looked after.

Yes there are delays in some surgeries. However in most cases if it is life threatening you go to the top of the line. I have three friends undergoing various cancer treatments right now and the speed in which they have all been directed to their treatments was second to none.

On the other hand yes, a friend of mine had to wait to have her knee surgery, when my son blew his out playing hockey however because he was young he was dealt with rapidly.

It's not a perfect system but it does work.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are funny thumper. Let me put it this way so you will understand. Why would your well educated, well bred sons "disparage" others unless they were a pair of ill bred bums. Friends and relatives who have attended St. John's have a lot of class and don't carry on like you are doing this evening. It would be beneath them to act so crudely, kind of like how you are behaving out here this evening. Something about you is showing this evening thumper and it really isn't at all attractive. Where do you live anyway?


I wonder if her sons went to public school??


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think Thumper ran away, Patty. She sure was crabby tonight. I wonder why she wouldn't answer our questions? I hope she is in a better mood tomorrow. I had a great evening. Lots of nice conversation.


I hope she makes sense tomorrow. Talk about rambling.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Insurers care much more about one's health than the government.


I disagree on that point. They may act like it but it's really all about the bottom line.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> That is exactly what I don't get Susan.
> 
> I work in the insurance industry, not health, and I see what the comanies do here and believe me bottom line is profit. I'm not fooled that they advertise they are going to do it all for me - that's crazy!!!
> 
> ...


I think as far as delays go with our current systems it's a question of the haves vs the have nots. Folks with good insurance are treated promptly--but it's quite a different story for the 1 in 5 Americans who have no coverage at all. People laugh over panhandling pleas to help pay for this or that operation, but the reality is far from humorous. Almost half of bankruptcies are caused by medical bills--even the insured can spend the rest of lives paying these things off.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Open and friendly, yes--my foreign-born husband has said as much many times. But we're also elitist and condescending toward other nations, and that's a shame.


Americans really love ethnic food, but generally that is about the extent of our embracing different cultures. The name of the American game is assimilate, assimilate and fit it! Really regrettable.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Bonbf3 thank you for clarifying that for me.
> 
> I did not comment to spit in your face, in my opinion as a Non-Ameriucan it felt condescending.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your post. I sent you a PM.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Canadian health care has a lot of benefits, but it is far from perfect (I don't think such a system exists anywhere). Health is a provincial responsibility so there are differences between the provinces (BC is one of the few that charges premiums). If you are seriously injured, have a heart attack or stroke, or anything requiring immediate emergency care and live in or near a major centre, you will likely receive prompt treatment without personal payment. 

But there are serious issues with diagnostics, chronic conditions and preventative health, which is where you see Can. who can afford it going to US. Our legislation does not allow doctors to charge for covered services and I personally know people who have had to wait for more than a year to have knee or hip replacements. 3 years ago I met a couple that returned to Can. after working in the US medical profession for more than 20 years; they are now associated with a Can. business that organizes all aspects of medical treatment for Canadians in US facilities.

Ours is really more of a "medical" system rather than "health care" system. Because doctors are paid a set fee for a particular service, many can't or won't take the time to discuss overall health and wellbeing in one appointment. Many people find it difficult to get a family doctor and many doctors don't accept new patients. This puts more pressure on emergency rooms and at a higher cost. It made national news when a hospital's Tim Hortons had to shut down to accommodate emergency overflow. 

Last year a Can. clinic was established with a $1000 per year "membership fee" that guaranteed patients more time to develop a comprehensive health plan with their doctors. Because it violated "universal free care", they were forced to cancel this service. Some private, fee based clinics offering MRI's and a few procedures have been set up but what can be provided at a fee is strictly regulated. There have been scandals over queue jumping and political interference. 

Scandinavian countries have good tax funded health care, but there are never enough taxes to pay for everything, so conditions and services are ranked. The impact is felt most in neonatal and end of life care because that is where the costs are the highest. Britain and Australia both have hybrid systems with public and private options.

Good friends of ours worked in Houston and New Orleans for several years. Al was covered by a very good employer paid medical and benefits plan that he found much better than what the same corporation provided in Alberta. But he also recognized that many Americans don't have that type of coverage and that people could lose their homes and life savings in a major medical emergency. I would like to think that there is a way of resolving that without polarizing people. Unfortunately your AHC doesn't seem to have accomplished that.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thank you OffKnit for shining the spotlight on your home state of Virginia. A little humor is always appreciated, and your Governor wannabe Ken Cuccinelli provides it by the barrel full. Love his "family-friendly" version of the state seal (which covers Virtus' exposed left breast with a shield) and his efforts to deny unemployment benefits to those who don't speak English. Sure explains a lot about some of your more amazing posts.


Had to go back 5 years to see what law you were talking about. From the Washington Post article, it appears that the law is intended to protect employers that hire people via the internet for jobs that require fluent English skills to be fired if they can't speak English well enough to do the job. For instance if he/she could not speak English and they were hired to work as a waitress and couldn't understand the orders, the employer should be allowed to be let that person go and the employer should not have to pay unemployment to him/her.

Also regarding transvaginal ultra sounds, that was mentioned earlier, they were not invented for the purpose of harassing women getting abortions. They have very necessary medical reasons to be used, and have saved lives with no known side effects. In fact, if there was a medical problem that could only be detected through the vaginal ultra sound, the mother's life could be saved because of this knowledge. Sounds like good medical practice.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Had to go back 5 years to see what law you were talking about. From the Washington Post article, it appears that the law is intended to protect employers that hire people via the internet for jobs that require fluent English skills to be fired if they can't speak English well enough to do the job. For instance if he/she could not speak English and they were hired to work as a waitress and couldn't understand the orders, the employer should be allowed to be let that person go and the employer should not have to pay unemployment to him/her.

What about the original idea of an employer doing live interviews of prospective employees who need to be fluent English speakers?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I wonder if her sons went to public school??


I wonder if you should be talking about someone else's children. Good grief - have you no scruples at all? You should be ashamed of yourselves, acting like that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I wonder if her sons went to public school??


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Open and friendly, yes--my foreign-born husband has said as much many times. But we're also elitist and condescending toward other nations, and that's a shame.


Count me out. I'm not elitist and I'm not condescending toward other countries.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Count me out. I'm not elitist and I'm not condescending toward other countries.


bon - I didn't take your original comment as condescending but as pride in your country. Most people are proud of their countries and usually are interested in learning about other countries and sadly a few people are narrow minded.

I think that when a subject gets heated, people are more sensitive to what is typed and because we can't see each other and it's not a 2 way conversation, it can easily be taken in a way not intended. This forum is a great way to learn more about each others countries and cultures.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Bonbf3 thank you for clarifying that for me.
> 
> I did not comment to spit in your face, in my opinion as a Non-Ameriucan it felt condescending.
> 
> ...


MOMTO2, I know you weren't spitting in my face. I didn't mean you. I was making a general statement about the hostility on this thread. Some of the people on here make it impossible - or a waste of time - to even try to be polite.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Are you kidding? The Japanese are way ahead of us in technology and same with Germany in regard to environmental measures.


 And we are the first to express our admiration of them. We cooperate with both those countries and have good relationships with them. We don't even mention the help we've given to them.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I wonder if her sons went to public school??


Only until high school. Then the two youngest attended a private, all men, JROTC high school. It took three months of after school tutoring to catch them up. They were A/B students in the public schools.

We learned with our oldest that the public high schools were no place for our kids.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> bon - I didn't take your original comment as condescending but as pride in your country. Most people are proud of their countries and usually are interested in learning about other countries and sadly a few people are narrow minded.
> 
> I think that when a subject gets heated, people are more sensitive to what is typed and because we can't see each other and it's not a 2 way conversation, it can easily be taken in a way not intended. This forum is a great way to learn more about each others countries and cultures.


Thank you! I agree that it's easy to give the wrong impressionn when you're showing only the written word. I think Canada is a great country and we're lucky to share a border with them. The free back and forth that we enjoy with Canada is certainly a great benefit to us and, I hope, to them.

I wish we had as good a relationship with Mexico. I've known more Mexicans than Canadians - probably because I live in Georgia and used to live in Tucson. I love the Mexican people - those who live there and those who live here. In my school, we all loved having the Hispanic children in our classes. They were polite and full of life, and their parents were very conscientious. That was first grade.

On another post, there was a picture of someone's daughter - young, maybe six. She was hugging a doll wearing an outfit her mother or grandmother made. She was so happy - big smile. I noticed her fingernails were polished - two different colors. Just like my granddaughter. This little girl is from Australia and mine is from the U.S. - and their fingernails are polished the same. It just made me realize how alike we are. I wish we could remember that. We're so alike in our love for our families, our wish to lead good and meaningful lives, and our need for other people.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> And we are the first to express our admiration of them. We cooperate with both those countries and have good relationships with them. We don't even mention the help we've given to them.


this article may give you more insight into our good relationship and help with Japan

Washington (CNN) -- U.S. troops in Okinawa will now be on curfew after the arrest of two U.S. sailors accused of raping a local woman, the commander of U.S. forces in Japan said Friday.
Lt. Gen. Salvatore Angelella also apologized Friday in a statement announcing the curfew.
"I want to personally apologize for the grief and trauma the victim has endured," the statement said.
Read more: Small U.S. base is giant issue in U.S.-Japan relations
The curfew restricts military personnel to the base, a personal home or hotel between 11 p.m. and 5 a.m.
Civic groups protest the alleged rape.
2008: Japanese to U.S.: Get out
Police in Okinawa identified the detained sailors as U.S. Navy Seaman Christopher Daniel Browning and Petty Officer Skyler Dozierwalker of Naval Air Station Joint Reserve Base Fort Worth in Texas. The two men, both 23, are alleged to have raped a Japanese woman early Tuesday, leaving her with a neck injury, police said. They were taken into custody later that day.
The incident has prompted a women's group in Okinawa to call for more restrictions on what U.S. military personnel can do when off-base.
The issue of violent crimes, especially rapes, by U.S. troops in Japan has divided the two countries for decades. It came to a peak in 1995 when a U.S. sailor and two U.S. Marines were convicted of raping a 12-year-old girl. Tens of thousands of Okinawans took to the streets at the time demanding that the United States leave the island south of Japan's main islands.
In that case, the U.S. military at first refused to turn the suspects over to Japanese authorities. But in the most recent case, the suspects were in Japanese custody almost immediately.
Read more: U.S.-Japan deal withdraws 9,000 Marines from Okinawa
The alleged attack took place two months after a U.S. Marine was arrested, accused of assaulting and molesting a woman in Naha, the capital of Okinawa.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

I just finished watching Bill Moyers's show where he has guests that have done much to make America a better place. My husband thinks that Bill Moyers is a national treasure. I watch him on PBS. I love his show and the knowledge I receive. I was wondering if anyone else watches his show.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> this article may give you more insight into our good relationship and help with Japan
> 
> Washington (CNN) -- U.S. troops in Okinawa will now be on curfew after the arrest of two U.S. sailors accused of raping a local woman, the commander of U.S. forces in Japan said Friday.
> Lt. Gen. Salvatore Angelella also apologized Friday in a statement announcing the curfew.
> ...


I've noticed that you never miss an opportunity to diminish someone's post or to trash your own country. Have you ever considered moving to a place where you would be happier and more approving of the country? Have you ever found that utopia where no one is killed, no one is hurt, no babies are aborted, and everyone is happy?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I've noticed that you never miss an opportunity to diminish someone's post or to trash your own country. Have you ever considered moving to a place where you would be happier and more approving of the country? Have you ever found that utopia where no one is killed, no one is hurt, no babies are aborted, and everyone is happy?


I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.

How do you feel when bad things are done in our name?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Had to go back 5 years to see what law you were talking about. From the Washington Post article, it appears that the law is intended to protect employers that hire people via the internet for jobs that require fluent English skills to be fired if they can't speak English well enough to do the job. For instance if he/she could not speak English and they were hired to work as a waitress and couldn't understand the orders, the employer should be allowed to be let that person go and the employer should not have to pay unemployment to him/her.
> 
> Also regarding transvaginal ultra sounds, that was mentioned earlier, they were not invented for the purpose of harassing women getting abortions. They have very necessary medical reasons to be used, and have saved lives with no known side effects. In fact, if there was a medical problem that could only be detected through the vaginal ultra sound, the mother's life could be saved because of this knowledge. Sounds like good medical practice.


They are also used to detect ovarian cancer - or I should say irregularities that could be indicators and need to be checked out. They're not painful, but they are unpleasant.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Twit is not a foul word thumper. Why don't you sit and have a Tidy Bowl cocktail and cool down.


No, but it was certainly not used as a term of endearment, was it?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.


That appreciation doesn't come through in your posts. I'm glad you feel it, though. There are a lot of law-abiding, kind, generous, and self-sacrificing people in our country.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No, but it was certainly not used as a term of endearment, was it?


Bratty Patty: your name is well-chosen.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> No, but it was certainly not used as a term of endearment, was it?


They're ok if they are the ones doing it.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.
> 
> How do you feel when bad things are done in our name?


I feel very bad when bad things are done. I even feel bad when bad things are done on here. There are a lot of bad things done on here, and that's why I'm trying to stop posting. I fall into the trap of thinking my post is going to change something.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I've experienced your health care on land and on sea and the word that describes it, is dismal. Certainly below the level provided in the USA. And once ocare is fully implemented in the USA we will experience superficial, depressed care foreign to our country. I doubt if the average Brit knows what good health care encompasses because they have never experienced it.


Have you visited or lived in England and been cared for there or are you posting someone's second hand opinion?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That appreciation doesn't come through in your posts. I'm glad you feel it, though. There are a lot of law-abiding, kind, generous, and self-sacrificing people in our country.


I am not a cheer leader. There are plenty here already. There is an old saying if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. The first step to a solution is recognizing there is a problem. We are not always right and we are not universally loved. And the lack of love for us is not because of jealously. We do bad things to other people in other countries.

Could you answer my question?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Do you know that the main indicator of happiness of a country as a whole is the narrowness of the gap between rich and poor? I don't expect a response to this - it's late and wine has been taken.


Ok, so which countries would fall into the happiest places on earth? The US does not (just to get that out of the way).


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We have many great colleges and universities, but our elementary and high schools give our students much less than schools in other countries. Europeans are given a much better general education and know much more about the world than our students.


That is true. Dumbed down the education here. Won't even teach them how to write anymore. My fourth grader hasn't been taught how to write cursive. No history . Math is using calulators.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

Big money has been speaking and controlling the media and government for so long, it is no wonder that sides have been chosen and all this back and forth is going on. The answer in getting to the truth of all that is going on can not be found on Just cable news and the people we trust. Please break away and feed yourself from other sources.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

LizAnne said:


> Big money has been speaking and controlling the media and government for so long, it is no wonder that sides have been chosen and all this back and forth is going on. The answer in getting to the truth of all that is going on can not be found on Just cable news and the people we trust. Please break away and feed yourself from other sources.


Most definitely. Go outside our comfort zones for information and confront our fears, anxieties, and even prejudices when looking for information and answers.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course not...but I also don't think I want to be treated by a doctor who went into the profession only because it was prestigious, either.


Unfortunately you probably have been many times over the years. There are many doctors that actually admit it. I've overhead this kind of conversation many times in hospital cafeterias, from family members and from some doctors themselves. I will admit that it doesn't mean the doctor is not good at what she/he does. It was their reason for going into medicine.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Insurers care much more about one's health than the government.


I don't think so. They care about denying coverage and insuring healthy people so their profits grow and grow and grow---except for the non-profits.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Really?
> 
> On a train going from Toronto to Vancouver I met a lady who lived in Canada, had minor surgery (gall stone) and she told me she needed knee replacements and would need to wait 6 months post surgery for her one knee and then a year for the other. She was surprised that I had two knee replacements within 4 months of each other and with no waiting period.
> 
> Now isn't that awesome? But I have since learned that the quality and availability of health care in Canada varies from Province to Province. Nova Scotia has better than others.


Those are elective surgeries that do not need to be done immediately. I have friends who live in Canada and have traveled there extensively. Yes, there are different levels of care but the care is excellent and when you have an emergency situation or serious health issue you get the care you need immediately. What is the problem with provinces having different levels of care? We have that now in the U.S. Insurance companies have various plans in different states and rates very. Didn't you know that? We are spoiled in this country and a bunch of whiney babies who demand way to much of our health care system. Hospitals have become more like 5 star hotels because we think we need that too. Of course hospitals and insurance companies love this behavior and they are making a fortune off of us for these non essentials. I remember when we had wards in hospitals and the care was just as good but you shared a room. What was wrong with that? Was your health in danger because of it. I have had too replacement surgeries and neither of them needed to be done ASAP. What are you going to lose when ACA kicks in that is critical? At this point no one really knows do they but you sure are having fun playing up the drama.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I feel very bad when bad things are done. I even feel bad when bad things are done on here. There are a lot of bad things done on here, and that's why I'm trying to stop posting. I fall into the trap of thinking my post is going to change something.


While I too fall into argument mode at times, I post a lot of information that may or may not concur with how other folks believe. It is through information both facts and op ed that we broaden our perspective. Only an individual can change their opinion.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> CB, If it was a more moderate site I might look at it.
> Pretty soon the IRS and Obama will be responsible for tsunamis, earthquakes, and floods and the next swarm of locusts to buzz through the country.
> I don't condone by any means what the workers in the IRS have done. They have targeted liberal groups, too. It was unfair to anyone waiting for a tax exemption.


Obama took the lead on that and blamed the slow economy on tsunamis, earthquakes, ATMs, etc.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ok, so which countries would fall into the happiest places on earth? The US does not (just to get that out of the way).


I had a quick look and found two contrasting sets of results, one by Forbes and another from aneki.com. The lists on aneki are fascinating (the US has the second best-educated population, by the way). The Forbes study looked at many different indicators. Anyway, here are the links. I hope they work.

http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries.html

http://www.aneki.com/happiest_countries.html


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is true. Dumbed down the education here. Won't even teach them how to write anymore. My fourth grader hasn't been taught how to write cursive. No history . Math is using calulators.


You have a strong opinion on the state of the education in your area. Local school boards are one of the easiest ways to get involved and make change in a community.

Do you attend the school board meetings in your district? Do you get to know the candidates for school board? Have you thought of supporting a particular school board candidate or run for school board yourself?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And we have a gigantic gap between the rich and the poor, and it's growing wider. The rich like it that way. The lower middle class has fallen to a lesser category and the middle class is being strangled. Why middle class people can't see this and keep voting republican against their best interests slays me!


Possibly because they see what the Democrats have done to and for the poor and don't want to be in that group.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I don't think so. They care about denying coverage and insuring healthy people so their profits grow and grow and grow---except for the non-profits.


What stupid thinking. Do you really think if the insurance companies were that callus and denied coverage, word would get out and they would be out of business. What company can stay in business with that reputation? The only 'business' I can think of that has that type of business plan is the federal government; it takes and gives gives nothing in return. Example, student loans, and the immoral amount of interest money they profit from because of high interest rates?

Second, telling someone to drink a Tidy Bowl Cocktail is telling someone to drink poison and die a painful death. What sweet people those libs are to others.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> You have a strong opinion on the state of the education in your area. Local school boards are one of the easiest ways to get involved and make change in a community.
> 
> Do you attend the school board meetings in your district? Do you get to know the candidates for school board? Have you thought of supporting a particular school board candidate or run for school board yourself?


 Everybody I know that were teachers has quit because of all the mess with Bench mark test. It all about that and not teaching what is important anymore. Thank God my son took my gd out of school in the 9th grade. She was on 6th grade level on math. She is home schooled and is going into the 11th and is caught up with her grade. Public education stinks!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I don't think so. They care about denying coverage and insuring healthy people so their profits grow and grow and grow---except for the non-profits.


And you know this how? I work with insurance every work day. I've seen more denials from Medicare than I have from a private insurer.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Everybody I know that were teachers has quit because of all the mess with Bench mark test. It all about that and not teaching what is important anymore. Thank God my son took my gd out of school in the 9th grade. She was on 6th grade level on math. She is home schooled and is going into the 11th and is caught up with her grade. Public education stinks!


Well one is either part of the problem or part of the solution. Getting involved is part of the solution.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well one is either part of the problem or part of the solution. Getting involved is part of the solution.


 I don't know how I could help. My bil is a Superintendant, my sil is a teacher and my other bil was a jhs principle . They haven't been able to change the school system . How would I change anything?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Canadian health care has a lot of benefits, but it is far from perfect (I don't think such a system exists anywhere). Health is a provincial responsibility so there are differences between the provinces (BC is one of the few that charges premiums). If you are seriously injured, have a heart attack or stroke, or anything requiring immediate emergency care and live in or near a major centre, you will likely receive prompt treatment without personal payment.
> 
> But there are serious issues with diagnostics, chronic conditions and preventative health, which is where you see Can. who can afford it going to US. Our legislation does not allow doctors to charge for covered services and I personally know people who have had to wait for more than a year to have knee or hip replacements. 3 years ago I met a couple that returned to Can. after working in the US medical profession for more than 20 years; they are now associated with a Can. business that organizes all aspects of medical treatment for Canadians in US facilities.
> 
> ...


That you for your post.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I worked (taught) in the public schools more than 24 years. My grandchildren will not go to a public school as long as I can afford to pay their tuition for private school. So far only two have gone to public school for high school (grades 9-12). Since there is not a private school for high school where they live.


Good for you!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Also, because of all the government programs, the poor have no real incentive to reach any potential they otherwise might. Why the liberals can't see this and continue to vote for those that desire to keep the poor that way slays me!



soloweygirl said:


> Possibly because they see what the Democrats have done to and for the poor and don't want to be in that group.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What stupid thinking. Do you really think if the insurance companies were that callus and denied coverage, word would get out and they would be out of business. What company can stay in business with that reputation? The only 'business' I can think of that has that type of business plan is the federal government; it takes and gives gives nothing in return. Example, student loans, and the immoral amount of interest money they profit from because of high interest rates?
> 
> Second, telling someone to drink a Tidy Bowl Cocktail is telling someone to drink poison and die a painful death. What sweet people those libs are to others.


Have you ever heard about people being denied healthcare coverage because of preexisting conditions? It happens every day in the U.S. How can you not possibly know this? I know this because my previous employer laid off most of us and we were able to be on COBRA for 18 months. After COBRA ended I was dropped by my insurance company because I had a knee replacement which is considered a preexisting condition along with hundreds of other medical conditions, surgeries, etc. that people can have. Yes insurance companies are extremely callus and they are for profit and it is all about the bottom line. I had to join MCHA, which is a state plan and the premiums are huge. In October I can sign up for ACA and then select my own coverage through my state's health exchange and no one will be denyed coverage do to preexisting conditions. ACA will begin Jan. 1, 2014. I will be paying less than I am paying now because I will be in a much larger pool of people. I for one welcome ACA.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Yes thanks for your input Westcoastkitty. You are a very smart lady. Enjoy all of your post on both topics.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I had a quick look and found two contrasting sets of results, one by Forbes and another from aneki.com. The lists on aneki are fascinating (the US has the second best-educated population, by the way). The Forbes study looked at many different indicators. Anyway, here are the links. I hope they work.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries.html
> 
> http://www.aneki.com/happiest_countries.html


Anne I read the happiest countries and noticed Mexico being one of them. Why are they coming over our border escaping if it is so happy there? I don't know if you have heard we have a big problem with illegals from there? They must be the unhappy ones. :roll:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't know how I could help. My bil is a Superintendant, my sil is a teacher and my other bil was a jhs principle . They haven't been able to change the school system . How would I change anything?


Superintendent of schools? Wow what a position of influence. It takes a committed group to support change.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I had a quick look and found two contrasting sets of results, one by Forbes and another from aneki.com. The lists on aneki are fascinating (the US has the second best-educated population, by the way). The Forbes study looked at many different indicators. Anyway, here are the links. I hope they work.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries.html
> 
> http://www.aneki.com/happiest_countries.html


Thank you. Interesting articles, with a lot of common goals/ideals between countries.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I had to join MCHA, which is a state plan and the premiums are huge. In October I can sign up for ACA and then select my own coverage through my state's health exchange and no one will be denyed coverage do to preexisting conditions. ACA will begin Jan. 1, 2014. I will be paying less than I am paying now because I will be in a much larger pool of people. I for one welcome ACA.


What I read was that the ACA coverage was going to cost up to about 40% more than what people were currently paying for similar coverage through MCHA. At least that's what the Strib published. We know how reliable they are.

Also, it seems to me that you were not denied coverage as it seems you were able to find it through MCHA.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne I read the happiest countries and noticed Mexico being one of them. Why are they coming over our border escaping if it is so happy there? I don't know if you have heard we have a big problem with illegals from there? They must be the unhappy ones. :roll:


I know, it does seem strange, doesn't it? I have read that whole parts of Mexico are a slaughterhouse because of the drugs gangs. I can't blame people for wanting to escape that.

My stepson is living in Mexico with his girlfriend at the moment and absolutely loves it. They're on the Pacific coast in a beautiful house they're renting from a Canadian couple who only spend the summers there. His dad and I really need to go and visit them before September.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.
> 
> How do you feel when bad things are done in our name?


Crimes should be prosecuted and if guilty, punished -- but these are individuals who could just as easily been from anywhere and any other organization. There have been incidents with NATO troops in Canada and Europe, with sports teams, school/university parties and any other multitude of events. They are all wrong - why isolate American military incidents?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Those are elective surgeries that do not need to be done immediately. I have friends who live in Canada and have traveled there extensively. Yes, there are different levels of care but the care is excellent and when you have an emergency situation or serious health issue you get the care you need immediately. What is the problem with provinces having different levels of care? We have that now in the U.S. Insurance companies have various plans in different states and rates very. Didn't you know that? We are spoiled in this country and a bunch of whiney babies who demand way to much of our health care system. Hospitals have become more like 5 star hotels because we think we need that too. Of course hospitals and insurance companies love this behavior and they are making a fortune off of us for these non essentials. I remember when we had wards in hospitals and the care was just as good but you shared a room. What was wrong with that? Was your health in danger because of it. I have had too replacement surgeries and neither of them needed to be done ASAP. What are you going to lose when ACA kicks in that is critical? At this point no one really knows do they but you sure are having fun playing up the drama.


Cheeky - please read my post on page 62. You are mistaken - these are NOT elective surgeries. They may not be immediately life threatening but they are definitely medical necessities. Your tone is very offensive when I think of my youngest brother who had spinal surgery delayed 3 times before it was finally done more than a year after his accident. Or my 62 year old friend who was almost crippled, needed 2 canes to hobble around and was on strong pain meds that were affecting her liver before she finally had her hip replacement.

While I definitely do not want to move to a fully private system, I agree with many other Canadians who feel our health care needs are not being appropriately met with our current system


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Had to go back 5 years to see what law you were talking about. From the Washington Post article, it appears that the law is intended to protect employers that hire people via the internet for jobs that require fluent English skills to be fired if they can't speak English well enough to do the job. For instance if he/she could not speak English and they were hired to work as a waitress and couldn't understand the orders, the employer should be allowed to be let that person go and the employer should not have to pay unemployment to him/her.
> 
> Also regarding transvaginal ultra sounds, that was mentioned earlier, they were not invented for the purpose of harassing women getting abortions. They have very necessary medical reasons to be used, and have saved lives with no known side effects. In fact, if there was a medical problem that could only be detected through the vaginal ultra sound, the mother's life could be saved because of this knowledge. Sounds like good medical practice.


Trans-vaginal ultrasounds have been around for awhile but to force women who want an abortion to have one offers no medical information for her, it was for the purpose of trying to change the woman's mind. If it was such a valuable procedure, it would be recommended for all pregnancies, right?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What stupid thinking. Do you really think if the insurance companies were that callus and denied coverage, word would get out and they would be out of business. What company can stay in business with that reputation? The only 'business' I can think of that has that type of business plan is the federal government; it takes and gives gives nothing in return. Example, student loans, and the immoral amount of interest money they profit from because of high interest rates?
> 
> Second, telling someone to drink a Tidy Bowl Cocktail is telling someone to drink poison and die a painful death. What sweet people those libs are to others.


You're getting me mixed up with someone. I didn't tell anyone to 
Drink anything. According to you I'm stupid, but you, dear woman have no memory. 
Everyone please remember this post when there's talk about how nasty the liberals are.
I can tell you many anecdotes regarding people having to fight for their insurance to cover one thing or another, one of them personal. You must not associate with very many people outside a select few, because it's really quite common.
Love to you dear Christian lady who probably went to Mass this morning
From Stupid Nasty Girl


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Should have read sailing under the British flag. Sorry.

Not lived but traveled there many times throughout my life and required medical attention on at least 5-7 different occasions on land. My traveling companion twice on land. And once on a ship flying under the British flag with a London trained physician. Their diagnostic workups are poor and I have experienced an obvious deterioration in the delivery of services over the years. Our nurse practitioners do a far better job. That is one person's experience with their system.....granted it is a small sample, however in discussions with Brits many concur. Usually if they have no health issues they think it is as good as plum pudding but those who have found it necessary to utilize the system have many justifiable complaints. And of course we in the USA also are critical of our system. But access and diagnostics should not be a problem in the USA if the individual does their homework and is responsible. Access will become a problem as the shortage of physicians will be a factor.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Have you visited or lived in England and been cared for there or are you posting someone's second hand opinion?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> I had a quick look and found two contrasting sets of results, one by Forbes and another from aneki.com. The lists on aneki are fascinating (the US has the second best-educated population, by the way). The Forbes study looked at many different indicators. Anyway, here are the links. I hope they work.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/2011/01/19/norway-denmark-finland-business-washington-world-happiest-countries.html
> 
> http://www.aneki.com/happiest_countries.html


interesting that the results were so totally different - I guess those results really prove that you have to look at a survey's criteria. I remember seeing a 60 Minutes episode a few years ago where Finland was the happiest country (despite commenting on the fact that no one looked happy).


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Trans-vaginal ultrasounds have been around for awhile but to force women who want an abortion to have one offers no medical information for her, it was for the purpose of trying to change the woman's mind. If it was such a valuable procedure, it would be recommended for all pregnancies, right?


If I were pregnant and having a medical emergency, and they needed it to perform surgery, I would have it without question. You are making assumptions not based on fact. They are having a medical procedure, that can have life threatening consequences. There are no side effects, so what is the harm in checking to make sure the mom will survive the procedure? Don't you care about the women that might have a problem and it can not be seen on an abdominal sonogram? Would you prefer x rays? Don't you care about the mother?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I did not judge whether there was any problem with the different Provinces having different levels of care. Nor would I. That is their business alone.

One of the problems not addressed in ocare was the crossing of state lines to choose which insurance company would be best for the particular individuals needs. For some odd reason this is not permitted although we do it with auto, home owners, life and disability insurance, etc all the time. The Republicans wanted this issue to be assessed. What is your opinion on that?

You do not know me so please refrain from your demeaning attitude. I can tell you I am well versed in health care insurance from many aspects.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Those are elective surgeries that do not need to be done immediately. I have friends who live in Canada and have traveled there extensively. Yes, there are different levels of care but the care is excellent and when you have an emergency situation or serious health issue you get the care you need immediately. What is the problem with provinces having different levels of care? We have that now in the U.S. Insurance companies have various plans in different states and rates very. Didn't you know that? We are spoiled in this country and a bunch of whiney babies who demand way to much of our health care system. Hospitals have become more like 5 star hotels because we think we need that too. Of course hospitals and insurance companies love this behavior and they are making a fortune off of us for these non essentials. I remember when we had wards in hospitals and the care was just as good but you shared a room. What was wrong with that? Was your health in danger because of it. I have had too replacement surgeries and neither of them needed to be done ASAP. What are you going to lose when ACA kicks in that is critical? At this point no one really knows do they but you sure are having fun playing up the drama.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I wonder if you should be talking about someone else's children. Good grief - have you no scruples at all? You should be ashamed of yourselves, acting like that.


It was simple question and was not denigrating the person. You chose to read something else into it and responded accordingly.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You are correct on this point..."no one really knows". I happen to think that for something so important as our health and well being 
we should KNOW. Despite what Nancy Pelosi thinks. What do you think they take us for?



Cheeky Blighter said:


> when ACA kicks in that is critical? At this point no one really knows do they but you sure are having fun playing up the drama.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> bon - I didn't take your original comment as condescending but as pride in your country. Most people are proud of their countries and usually are interested in learning about other countries and sadly a few people are narrow minded.
> 
> I think that when a subject gets heated, people are more sensitive to what is typed and because we can't see each other and it's not a 2 way conversation, it can easily be taken in a way not intended. This forum is a great way to learn more about each others countries and cultures.


I think your comment regarding the written word is quite true - you cannot inflect tone. And I do agree about this forum and learning more about others. I even learn about my own country such as customs that are prevalent to the northern US as opposed to the southern part.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Only until high school. Then the two youngest attended a private, all men, JROTC high school. It took three months of after school tutoring to catch them up. They were A/B students in the public schools.
> 
> We learned with our oldest that the public high schools were no place for our kids.


I really think it might depend upon location in regard to quality of the public schools. For instance, if I had a child, I would not place them in the Dallas Independence school district. However, where I live (a suburb of Dallas), all levels of our schools are exemplary with a 98% graduation rate.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

LizAnne said:


> I just finished watching Bill Moyers's show where he has guests that have done much to make America a better place. My husband thinks that Bill Moyers is a national treasure. I watch him on PBS. I love his show and the knowledge I receive. I was wondering if anyone else watches his show.


I do not but from what you wrote, I may need to watch a segment.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Ok, so which countries would fall into the happiest places on earth? The US does not (just to get that out of the way).


Personally, I would vote first for the US, then Wales because I love that place. Next would be an island somewhere.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I also read that and wondered.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne I read the happiest countries and noticed Mexico being one of them. Why are they coming over our border escaping if it is so happy there? I don't know if you have heard we have a big problem with illegals from there? They must be the unhappy ones. :roll:


  :-D  :thumbup: :thumbup: ;-) ;-)


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is true. Dumbed down the education here. Won't even teach them how to write anymore. My fourth grader hasn't been taught how to write cursive. No history . Math is using calulators.


And while I understand the concern, it's not the same as when we went to school. Calculators and computers are the new wave and we can buy in or step aside.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

LizAnne said:


> Big money has been speaking and controlling the media and government for so long, it is no wonder that sides have been chosen and all this back and forth is going on. The answer in getting to the truth of all that is going on can not be found on Just cable news and the people we trust. Please break away and feed yourself from other sources.


That is exactly what my husband says. It's the "big money" and privileged few who run the US and pull the strings in Congress and the Presidency. The President really is a figurehead anymore.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:



> Obama took the lead on that and blamed the slow economy on tsunamis, earthquakes, ATMs, etc.


What did an ATM machine do???

;-)


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Kitty Thanks for detailing your first hand experiences. Much is what I had heard from fellow travelers in your beautiful country.



west coast kitty said:


> Canadian health care has a lot of benefits, but it is far from perfect (I don't think such a system exists anywhere). Health is a provincial responsibility so there are differences between the provinces (BC is one of the few that charges premiums). If you are seriously injured, have a heart attack or stroke, or anything requiring immediate emergency care and live in or near a major centre, you will likely receive prompt treatment without personal payment.
> 
> But there are serious issues with diagnostics, chronic conditions and preventative health, which is where you see Can. who can afford it going to US. Our legislation does not allow doctors to charge for covered services and I personally know people who have had to wait for more than a year to have knee or hip replacements. 3 years ago I met a couple that returned to Can. after working in the US medical profession for more than 20 years; they are now associated with a Can. business that organizes all aspects of medical treatment for Canadians in US facilities.
> 
> ...


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> What stupid thinking. Do you really think if the insurance companies were that callus and denied coverage, word would get out and they would be out of business. What company can stay in business with that reputation? The only 'business' I can think of that has that type of business plan is the federal government; it takes and gives gives nothing in return. Example, student loans, and the immoral amount of interest money they profit from because of high interest rates?
> 
> Second, telling someone to drink a Tidy Bowl Cocktail is telling someone to drink poison and die a painful death. What sweet people those libs are to others.


They may not deny coverage but they make the process difficult. And yes, I do believe it after having worked once for an insurance company.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Everybody I know that were teachers has quit because of all the mess with Bench mark test. It all about that and not teaching what is important anymore. Thank God my son took my gd out of school in the 9th grade. She was on 6th grade level on math. She is home schooled and is going into the 11th and is caught up with her grade. Public education stinks!


I do agree that too much weight is put on teaching to pass the "test" (we have TAKS here). But it's done to be able to get a certain amount of funding from the federal government because most districts can only raise taxes to a certain level. It's a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Also, because of all the government programs, the poor have no real incentive to reach any potential they otherwise might. Why the liberals can't see this and continue to vote for those that desire to keep the poor that way slays me!


There are definitely those that work the system but there are many that do not. They are people with an unfortunate circumstance and turn to public assistance to survive. Great article in the paper today about the SNAP program in Florida and the majority getting benefits there are retirees.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You're getting me mixed up with someone. I didn't tell anyone to
> Drink anything. According to you I'm stupid, but you, dear woman have no memory.
> Everyone please remember this post when there's talk about how nasty the liberals are.
> I can tell you many anecdotes regarding people having to fight for their insurance to cover one thing or another, one of them personal. You must not associate with very many people outside a select few, because it's really quite common.
> ...


Are you being stupid nasty again?!?!?! Bad girl, bad, bad. Here is some red wine for you!


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> And while I understand the concern, it's not the same as when we went to school. Calculators and computers are the new wave and we can buy in or step aside.


I agree calculators and computers are great tools and entrenched in our society. But unfortunately a growing number of young students don't seem understand the principles behind the tools and that should be a concern. A few months back my Dad wanted a half dozen nuggets from McDonalds - the clerk said sorry, he could only have 6 or 12. A growing number of young people can't do relatively simple math in their head and can't make change other than what the cash register says.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> You are correct on this point..."no one really knows". I happen to think that for something so important as our health and well being
> we should KNOW. Despite what Nancy Pelosi thinks. What do you think they take us for?


I agree on the should know and I have yet to hear any entity that is involved in bringing the ACA into play that agrees on how to implement this program. That said, I still welcome the change.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes thanks for your input Westcoastkitty. You are a very smart lady. Enjoy all of your post on both topics.


We are all smart ladies on this forum. I may not agree with every point mentioned but there is no intelligence lacking.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne I read the happiest countries and noticed Mexico being one of them. Why are they coming over our border escaping if it is so happy there? I don't know if you have heard we have a big problem with illegals from there? They must be the unhappy ones. :roll:


They are.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> I agree calculators and computers are great tools and entrenched in our society. But unfortunately a growing number of young students don't seem understand the principles behind the tools and that should be a concern. A few months back my Dad wanted a half dozen nuggets from McDonalds - the clerk said sorry, he could only have 6 or 12. A growing number of young people can't do relatively simple math in their head and can't make change other than what the cash register says.


With the way technology is going, we won't have to do math in our heads. Sadly, I have never had that talent - have a very difficult time with math - I lean to abstract thinking.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Cheeky - please read my post on page 62. You are mistaken - these are NOT elective surgeries. They may not be immediately life threatening but they are definitely medical necessities. Your tone is very offensive when I think of my youngest brother who had spinal surgery delayed 3 times before it was finally done more than a year after his accident. Or my 62 year old friend who was almost crippled, needed 2 canes to hobble around and was on strong pain meds that were affecting her liver before she finally had her hip replacement.
> 
> While I definitely do not want to move to a fully private system, I agree with many other Canadians who feel our health care needs are not being appropriately met with our current system


West Coast Kitty I do not disagree with you. I think the term elective surgery is the sticking point so I have provided the definition of what it means below. I myself had a hip replacement and a total knee replacement. Both were considered medically necessary but I did not have to go in to the hospital immediately for either procedure therefore they were considered elective because I and my doctor were able to chose the time and hospital that was best for me. If I would not have had them done I would have ended up unable to walk.
I did not mean to offend you or your brother or your friend. I have been through the pain and fear of not being able to rely on my body as I used to when I was young and the pain of rehab after surgery. I am sorry and I hope I have explained myself more clearly. If I haven't please let me know.

What is Elective Surgery:
Elective surgery is non-emergency surgery which is planned, allowing the patient and doctor to determine the best time and place for it. There are a wide range of procedures which could be considered elective, ranging from a hip replacement to a rhinoplasty, and elective surgical procedures are offered at most hospitals. The primary advantage of elective surgery is that it has a much more controllable and predictable outcome, since the variant of chance and emergency circumstances is removed.
Some elective procedures are medically necessary, but not urgent. These types of surgeries are usually discussed at length with a doctor before the surgery takes place, and the patient may seek out second opinions and appointments with other surgeons to find the best surgeon for his or her needs. A lumpectomy to remove a lump from the breast is an example of a medically necessary emergency surgery.

Other elective procedures are considered to be cosmetic in nature, which means that they do not have a direct medical value. For the patient, however, they may be very beneficial to self esteem and social standing. For example, a procedure to remove a port wine stain on the face is an elective cosmetic surgery, but the removal of the port wine stain will make a large difference in the patient's life.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You're getting me mixed up with someone. I didn't tell anyone to
> Drink anything. According to you I'm stupid, but you, dear woman have no memory.
> Everyone please remember this post when there's talk about how nasty the liberals are.
> I can tell you many anecdotes regarding people having to fight for their insurance to cover one thing or another, one of them personal. You must not associate with very many people outside a select few, because it's really quite common.
> ...


Never said it was from you, how arrogant of you again.
But so pleased to see that you finally admit your true character. See the truth did set you free.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You're getting me mixed up with someone. I didn't tell anyone to
> Drink anything. According to you I'm stupid, but you, dear woman have no memory.
> Everyone please remember this post when there's talk about how nasty the liberals are.
> I can tell you many anecdotes regarding people having to fight for their insurance to cover one thing or another, one of them personal. You must not associate with very many people outside a select few, because it's really quite common.
> ...


Andrea don't be so hard on yourself. off2knit frequently gets people confused especially those on the left. I know you are a lovely person who is very kind and nasty and stupid are two words I would never use to describe you. It was very Christian of you to offer off2knit the sign of peace and it would be lovely if she tried to be more careful before she makes false accusations about people. I'm sorry she was not nice to you,Andrea. You sure didn't deserve that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What did an ATM machine do???
> 
> ;-)


Courtesy of Fox News:

President Obama explained to NBC News that the reason companies aren't hiring is not because of his policies, it's because the economy is so automated. ... "There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers. You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don't go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you're using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate."


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Andrea don't be so hard on yourself. off2knit frequently gets people confused especially those on the left. I know you are a lovely person who is very kind and nasty and stupid are two words I would never use to describe you. It was very Christian of you to offer off2knit the sign of peace and it would be lovely if she tried to be more careful before she makes false accusations about people. I'm sorry she was not nice to you,Andrea. You sure didn't deserve that.


No, she didn't. Sorry, Andrea.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> If I were pregnant and having a medical emergency, and they needed it to perform surgery, I would have it without question. You are making assumptions not based on fact. They are having a medical procedure, that can have life threatening consequences. There are no side effects, so what is the harm in checking to make sure the mom will survive the procedure? Don't you care about the women that might have a problem and it can not be seen on an abdominal sonogram? Would you prefer x rays? Don't you care about the mother?


Again, dear person, I just don't believe transvaginal ultrasounds were being pushed because of concern for the pregnant woman. The primary purpose to make it mandatory was to try to guilt the woman into NOT going through with an abortion. If the procedure is so great, every pregnant woman would be scheduled for one. It isn't a routine procedure for anyone. I know what it's about. I have had many.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Possibly because they see what the Democrats have done to and for the poor and don't want to be in that group.


But so many from the right think that being on welfare is wonderful because you get so many freebies!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And you know this how? I work with insurance every work day. I've seen more denials from Medicare than I have from a private insurer.


So?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What stupid thinking. Do you really think if the insurance companies were that callus and denied coverage, word would get out and they would be out of business. What company can stay in business with that reputation? The only 'business' I can think of that has that type of business plan is the federal government; it takes and gives gives nothing in return. Example, student loans, and the immoral amount of interest money they profit from because of high interest rates?
> 
> Second, telling someone to drink a Tidy Bowl Cocktail is telling someone to drink poison and die a painful death. What sweet people those libs are to others.


What a stupid girl. Can't spell "callus." Over your head?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Also, because of all the government programs, the poor have no real incentive to reach any potential they otherwise might. Why the liberals can't see this and continue to vote for those that desire to keep the poor that way slays me!


Poor girl. You don't see straight at all. Can't even explain it to you and no point in trying.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Are you being stupid nasty again?!?!?! Bad girl, bad, bad. Here is some red wine for you!


Ooh, thank you!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is spelled "callous".
> 
> cal·lous [kal-uhs]
> 
> ...


This is the stupid nasty girl checking in. Notice I put the word in quotes because that's how the basket case off2knit spelled it. Don't worry, I know how it's spelled and what it means despite my stupid thinking. I have been royally christened by SE, the basket case.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, she didn't. Sorry, Andrea.


Thank you Susan and Cheeky. I can't let a psycho basket case get me down, particularly because I know what degrees I hold and what my IQ is.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Twit is not a foul word thumper. Why don't you sit and have a Tidy Bowl cocktail and cool down.


Late as this message is because I'm still trying to catch up with yesterday and today's messages, I have to say that, yes, indeed, twit isn't a foul word, but it's still an insulting word. We had a few seconds of rational dialog here and then, poof!, it's back to the same old, same old.

Suggesting that someone sit down and have a Tidy Bowl cocktail is like asking them to sit down and drink a nice glass of Drano. Is it really necessary to say such things?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting
I did not judge whether there was any problem with the different Provinces having different levels of care. Nor would I. That is their business alone.

One of the problems not addressed in ocare was the crossing of state lines to choose which insurance company would be best for the particular individuals needs. For some odd reason this is not permitted although we do it with auto, home owners, life and disability insurance, etc all the time. The Republicans wanted this issue to be assessed. What is your opinion on that?

You do not know me so please refrain from your demeaning attitude. I can tell you I am well versed in health care insurance from many aspects.

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
Those are elective surgeries that do not need to be done immediately. I have friends who live in Canada and have traveled there extensively. Yes, there are different levels of care but the care is excellent and when you have an emergency situation or serious health issue you get the care you need immediately. What is the problem with provinces having different levels of care? We have that now in the U.S. Insurance companies have various plans in different states and rates very. Didn't you know that? We are spoiled in this country and a bunch of whiney babies who demand way to much of our health care system. Hospitals have become more like 5 star hotels because we think we need that too. Of course hospitals and insurance companies love this behavior and they are making a fortune off of us for these non essentials. I remember when we had wards in hospitals and the care was just as good but you shared a room. What was wrong with that? Was your health in danger because of it. I have had too replacement surgeries and neither of them needed to be done ASAP. What are you going to lose when ACA kicks in that is critical? At this point no one really knows do they but you sure are having fun playing up the drama.

RUKnitting


You don't know me either. I never demeaned you. All we are doing is having a discussion.
As to the issue about health insurance being purchased across state lines I found this article from the Tampa Bay Times which you may find interesting. 
It looks as though the Republicans decided not to pursue this even though they could have. What's your take on it?

GOP Pledge-O-Meter

Share this:

Allow purchase of health insurance across state lines

Will "allow individuals to buy health care coverage outside of the state in which they live."

Sources:

GOP Pledge to America

Subjects: Health Care, Regulation, States

Updates:
No progress on Republican bill
Updated: Thursday, November 8th, 2012 | By Molly Moorhead

Republican lawmakers sought to pass a law to allow people to buy insurance outside the state where they live with the idea it would increase competition and drive down prices.

"Republicans support the idea because they believe one reason health care costs are high is that some states impose too stringent regulation on insurers; if their state residents can shop for cheaper coverage from out-of-state insurance, they argue it will promote competition, enhance choice and reduce costs, said Jonathan Oberlander, a health policy professor at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine.

Democrats, on the other hand, take a skeptical view of lower regulation.

"They worry about a race to the bottom; insurers selling inadequate insurance plans that evade state regulations and that skim off the healthiest customers, making everyone else's insurance more expensive, Oberlander said.

Interestingly, the health care law allows sales of insurance across state lines, but it happens only if insurers adhere to stricter regulation.

According to the Urban Institute, a think tank focusing on poverty and social issues, the law "requires all states to comply with a minimum level of insurance regulation, and cross state sales would not be permitted in a state unless that state affirmatively joined a compact with one or more other states.

Oberlander added that it's unclear how many states will choose to set up such compacts.

Meanwhile, Blackburn's bill in the House hasn't moved in more than a year. It was referred to a subcommittee in February 2011 and has withered on the vine.

Allowing the purchase of health insurance across state lines is now the law of the land, at least in the form Democrats favor it. House Republicans have a different version, but they've taken no action on their own bill.

We rate this a Promise Broken.

Sources:

Urban Institute, "Does the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act Permit the Purchase of Health Insurance Across State Lines?

THOMAS, H.R. 371, accessed Nov.2, 2012

Email interview with Jonathan Oberlander of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, Nov. 2, 2012


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The one thing they have done is make more "poor."


Not true at all. The wealthy are trying to hold more and more of the wealth. That leaves less and less for the rest of us.
I had never seen such a display of selfishness until I got to the political threads of KP. When people claim to be Christians and spout this Ayn Rand philosophy, it is absolute hypocrisy. That's why non-Christians give Christians a hard time. They act all holy and spout political c--p. it gives real Christians a bad name.
Open your eyes. Listen to the Word. If you believe Democrats are the ones who are making a bigger class of people living in poverty, you are just plain wrong. Who are the people who don't want to pay taxes? Who are the ones who always want to cut social welfare programs? who are the ones who won't raise the minimum wage? Who are the ones who are opposed for healthcare for all? It ain't the Democrats, my dear.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Again, dear person, I just don't believe transvaginal ultrasounds were being pushed because of concern for the pregnant woman. The primary purpose to make it mandatory was to try to guilt the woman into NOT going through with an abortion. If the procedure is so great, every pregnant woman would be scheduled for one.


Of course. It's just another way of dissuading women from having abortions--makes as much sense as Virginia closing down abortion clinics that fail to put an awning over their front doors.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The one thing they have done is make more "poor."


How, Joey? You sound like you are envious of a lot of people most especially the poor. I guess the GOP has all you true believers buying into the sorry old tale that it is the poor who are robbing you blind. What have they taken that is yours? Would you really want to be on welfare and live such a hard life? Envy, even misguided is very unbecoming. I would rather work for what I have and not be dependent on anyone and I certainly don't begrudge the poor what little they have.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Courtesy of Fox News:
> 
> President Obama explained to NBC News that the reason companies aren't hiring is not because of his policies, it's because the economy is so automated. ... "There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers. You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don't go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you're using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate."


And wait til the robotic era.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Late as this message is because I'm still trying to catch up with yesterday and today's messages, I have to say that, yes, indeed, twit isn't a foul word, but it's still an insulting word. We had a few seconds of rational dialog here and then, poof!, it's back to the same old, same old.
> 
> Suggesting that someone sit down and have a Tidy Bowl cocktail is like asking them to sit down and drink a nice glass of Drano. Is it really necessary to say such things?[/
> 
> I for one have gotten sick of trying to be nice to those on the right. I am generally a rather easy-going person, but I've found out that it doesn't work. If you're nice you're accused of being a stupid idiotic wimp that doesn't have anything worthwhile to say. Turning the other cheek gets old. I find myself having to defend myself from the vicious attacks from the ranks on the right.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you Susan and Cheeky. I can't let a psycho basket case get me down, particularly because I know what degrees I hold and what my IQ is.


No problem. Things have gotten ugly since the conservatives saw Benghazi go down the tubes--obviously their hopes have been dashed and the vitriol is flowing like a river.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How many more are receiving food stamps for one thing.
> There are more who are dependent on the hand outs.
> The poor are not always low on money.
> Poor do not have a good "self worth"
> The poor are not satisfied with what they have, they think they need more to be happy. Money and things will not make them truly happy.


Who the heck authorized you to speak for the poor?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are using the noun as a verb.
> guilt
> [gilt]
> 
> ...


Nice thumb and forefinger action, Joey--those nits are really running for their lives now.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are using the noun as a verb.
> guilt
> [gilt]
> 
> ...


And you are giving me a grammar lesson why?? Yes, I did use guilt as a verb as in your posted definition 4. Would you like to comment further? I have no problem with people using everyday language on forums, and I don't even bother to correct people unless they call me stupid. I used to be a nice person until lately when I've had to defend myself from the likes of people like your SE. Why she's holier than The Lord himself, in her opinion. Hmmmm, I wonder what choice titles I could attach to SE? Any suggestions anyone?


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> West Coast Kitty I do not disagree with you. I think the term elective surgery is the sticking point so I have provided the definition of what it means below. I myself had a hip replacement and a total knee replacement. Both were considered medically necessary but I did not have to go in to the hospital immediately for either procedure therefore they were considered elective because I and my doctor were able to chose the time and hospital that was best for me. If I would not have had them done I would have ended up unable to walk.
> I did not mean to offend you or your brother or your friend. I have been through the pain and fear of not being able to rely on my body as I used to when I was young and the pain of rehab after surgery. I am sorry and I hope I have explained myself more clearly. If I haven't please let me know.
> 
> Thanks for clarifying your comments. I think we can agree on the basic definition of "elective". But the issue we are facing in Canada is that the delays are not the result of consultation or evaluation of the condition but a shortage of resources. When people have to wait 3 to 6 months to see a specialist or have a scan done and wait for more than a year for surgery, it has a profound impact on their health and recovery time. People here have died while waiting for care. There have been cases of people left on gurneys for more than a day, being moved into a store room and as I said into the Tim Horton's coffee shop.
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

There was a brief interlude yesterday on the so-called political topics (including one that originally was apolitical) when everyone said their say in a polite and reasonable way. All too soon, these topics reverted to using name-calling and insults. That really is unacceptable. 

Ive decided that every time one of you indulges in name-calling and insults, Ill hit that old Report Issue option and let Admin know what I think. Of course, this will probably get me kicked off KP for bothering Admin too often, but thats not important. I am sure all of you can be just as articulate without the negativity as you think you are with it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You are correct on this point..."no one really knows". I happen to think that for something so important as our health and well being
> we should KNOW. Despite what Nancy Pelosi thinks. What do you think they take us for?


I think we all need to take responsibility for understanding what our government is doing. Have you contacted your Congress person and asked why they did not read ACA? I thought that was what we sent them to Washington to do, our business. I am fortunate as I have good representation in Washington and in my state who understand their role is to serve and not see that position as something that should become their permanent job. I don't see Republicans holding their people responsible for anything. Why is that?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

How's this? Seems to fit to a T:

Nit (Net, Neit, Neith) was the predynastic goddess of war and weaving, the goddess of the Red Crown of Lower Egypt and the patron goddess of Zau (Sau, Sai, Sais) in the Delta. In later times she was also thought to have been an androgynous demiurge - a creation deity - who had both male and female attributes. She was also often shown carrying a bow and arrows, linking her to hunting and warfare, or a sceptre and sceptre and the ankh sign of life. She was also shown in the form of a cow, though this was very rare.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How's this? Seems to fit to a T:
> 
> Nit (Net, Neit, Neith) was the predynastic goddess of war and weaving, the goddess of the Red Crown of Lower Egypt and the patron goddess of Zau (Sau, Sai, Sais) in the Delta. In later times she was also thought to have been an androgynous demiurge - a creation deity - who had both male and female attributes. She was also often shown carrying a bow and arrows, linking her to hunting and warfare, or a sceptre and sceptre and the ankh sign of life. She was also shown in the form of a cow, though this was very rare.


Ooh, not bad!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ooh, not bad!


Awfully close, isn't it? Almost makes one believe in reincarnation.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> How's this? Seems to fit to a T:
> 
> Nit (Net, Neit, Neith) was the predynastic goddess of war and weaving, the goddess of the Red Crown of Lower Egypt and the patron goddess of Zau (Sau, Sai, Sais) in the Delta. In later times she was also thought to have been an androgynous demiurge - a creation deity - who had both male and female attributes. She was also often shown carrying a bow and arrows, linking her to hunting and warfare, or a sceptre and sceptre and the ankh sign of life. She was also shown in the form of a cow, though this was very rare.


Aw, come on. Is your comment really useful or is it just a fancy way to call someone a cow, even if it means that only rarely? In what way is an androgynous demiurge of any use?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

For Joeysomma
This a good article about poverty in America and what our wonderful Congress is doing about it. I guess you don't believe it's a problem government should try to do anything about, anyway, but you might find it interesting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/congress-poverty_n_3000459.html


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Aw, come on. Is your comment really useful or is it just a fancy way to call someone a cow, even if it means something only rarely?


My bad. Sorry! :-D 
All jokes aside, I'm willing to abide by a truce--but only if everyone else agrees as well. I've learned the hard way that being the only one bound by a vow to watch my mouth makes me an instant target.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Thank you Susan and Cheeky. I can't let a psycho basket case get me down, particularly because I know what degrees I hold and what my IQ is.


Hold your head high dear lady. You owe them no explanation. Probably wouldn't understand it anyway.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> My bad. Sorry! :-D
> All jokes aside, I'm willing to abide by a truce--but only if everyone else agrees as well. I've learned the hard way that being the only one bound by a vow to watch my mouth makes me an instant target.


You are perceived as being weak if you don't match their sharp tongues. I've now learned from experience. And nobody ever apologizes. They only sock it to you more!
I would abide by a truce if I saw evidence from the other side first.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How many more are receiving food stamps for one thing.
> There are more who are dependent on the hand outs.
> The poor are not always low on money.
> Poor do not have a good "self worth"
> ...


Gee, Joey I didn't know you are a mind reader. How nice for you to know what the poor think. The need for food stamps and other benefits should be obvious. People have run out of unemployment and the job creators are not creating enough jobs for everyone who wants to work. Yes, Joey shocking I know but they do want to work and then there are the working poor who put in full time hours but their employers don't pay them a living wage. Also, our military families are getting public assistance because we don't pay enough for their families to even have enough to eat. Thank your good buddies in the GOP for that Joey. There but for the grace of God go I but I guess you wouldn't understand that would you?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Aw, come on. Is your comment really useful or is it just a fancy way to call someone a cow, even if it means that only rarely? In what way is an androgynous demiurge of any use?


I find her comment to be much more useful than I find yours to be. Aren't your Christian buddies waiting for you? Poor SS, the only way she can get attention is to "take people to task" and threaten to report them to Admin.
I say go ahead!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Aw, come on. Is your comment really useful or is it just a fancy way to call someone a cow, even if it means that only rarely? In what way is an androgynous demiurge of any use?


But isn't it fun to say?
Our old French teacher used to say to students with poor pronunciation skills:
Vous parlez Francais come une vache espagnol. This has nothing to do with anything except the reference to cow made me think of it.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> For Joeysomma
> This a good article about poverty in America and what our wonderful Congress is doing about it. I guess you don't believe it's a problem government should try to do anything about, anyway, but you might find it interesting.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/congress-poverty_n_3000459.html


Great article. Balanced and to the point.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What did an ATM machine do???
> 
> ;-)


Atm's were being wiped out by hackers world wide. They got away with over 50 million.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Our tax dollars are being used for the "obama vacation fund," transportation to important events such as golf games, hobnobbing with the rich and famous, and White House "entertainment events" for the royal family, so we can scarcely afford to pay for health care for the disabled, elderly, unemployed, uninsured, and homeless.


Our tax dollars have gone to every other president for the same things.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Had to go back 5 years to see what law you were talking about. From the Washington Post article, it appears that the law is intended to protect employers that hire people via the internet for jobs that require fluent English skills to be fired if they can't speak English well enough to do the job. For instance if he/she could not speak English and they were hired to work as a waitress and couldn't understand the orders, the employer should be allowed to be let that person go and the employer should not have to pay unemployment to him/her.
> 
> Also regarding transvaginal ultra sounds, that was mentioned earlier, they were not invented for the purpose of harassing women getting abortions. They have very necessary medical reasons to be used, and have saved lives with no known side effects. In fact, if there was a medical problem that could only be detected through the vaginal ultra sound, the mother's life could be saved because of this knowledge. Sounds like good medical practice.


Trans vaginal ultra sounds were put in to harass the woman.
If they were so important to the womans health then why aren't they used in normal and wanted pregnancies.
Your comment doesn't cut it.
BTW I was the one who suggested thumper have a Tidy Bowl Cocktail to rinse out her filthy mouth. Get off the poison bus, between you and Janeway.......


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hold your head high dear lady. You owe them no explanation. Probably wouldn't understand it anyway.


hey Cheeky, Was your wonderful son a Boy Scout?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You are using the noun as a verb.
> guilt
> [gilt]
> 
> ...


Well, thanks for that boring waste of space!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hold your head high dear lady. You owe them no explanation. Probably wouldn't understand it anyway.


Oh yes we would you two.

You both have a BS degree in BS


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Was that supposed to be funny? I forgot to laugh.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I did because you called someone stupid. then you spelled it wrong.
> I just wanted to show you, that everyone can make a mistake.


Andrea, joey loves to correct peoples mistakes. :lol: :lol:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I did because you called someone stupid. then you spelled it wrong.
> I just wanted to show you, that everyone can make a mistake.


What did I spell wrong? Guilt? Let me know and I'll fix it.
Why don't you talk to your Supreme Empress. She called me stupid otherwise I wouldn't have used the word at all. And she has done it more than once.
I am not the first person to correct any errors. I would not do it unless somebody was trying to show me how intelligent she is. I would have a ball if I went through the forum correcting errors, believe me. This is a forum not a thesis written in APA style.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.
> ...


You try to live on 20, 000 with three kids. You don't know about medical care and the other "perks."


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.
> ...


I recall a discussion about a thousand pages ago about taxing rich people. Quite a few on here wrote something like "Who are you to tell people how much money they should have?" Does it not work both ways?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I guess I must have left out the double o in stoopid.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I recall a discussion about a thousand pages ago about taxing rich people. Quite a few on here wrote something like "Who are you to tell people how much money they should have?" Does it not work both ways?


Good one! Evidently, it does not work both ways.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How do you know what I know? I said here in Wisconsin. I work with these people. So I know!!
> 
> It isn't $20,000. with the tax refund it is $28,000 and another $2000 from the state and it is $30,000. and there is no tax on the extra $10,000


You said "more than likely" so I assumed you don't know for sure. Your SE assumes what I know all the time.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Cheeky Blighter said:
> 
> 
> > West Coast Kitty I do not disagree with you. I think the term elective surgery is the sticking point so I have provided the definition of what it means below. I myself had a hip replacement and a total knee replacement. Both were considered medically necessary but I did not have to go in to the hospital immediately for either procedure therefore they were considered elective because I and my doctor were able to chose the time and hospital that was best for me. If I would not have had them done I would have ended up unable to walk.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How do you know what I know? I said here in Wisconsin. I work with these people. So I know!!
> 
> It isn't $20,000. with the tax refund it is $28,000 and another $2000 from the state and it is $30,000. and there is no tax on the extra $10,000
> 
> ...


Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.

The last sentence says "more likely than not they have . . . . " I assumed that meant they may or may not receive all those perks, and that those things were not a "given. I was not trying to say anything about your knowledge of the facts---just your statement didn't say those perks were "for sure."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I did because you called someone stupid. then you spelled it wrong.
> I just wanted to show you, that everyone can make a mistake.


Show me so I can fix it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh yes we would you two.
> 
> You both have a BS degree in BS


Oh, go back to church.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How do you know what I know? I said here in Wisconsin. I work with these people. So I know!!
> 
> It isn't $20,000. with the tax refund it is $28,000 and another $2000 from the state and it is $30,000. and there is no tax on the extra $10,000
> 
> ...


Actually it might be easier at 58--how many women that age still have underage children?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.


If they lived in California they probably wouldn't get a dime. Here 20K per year is the cutoff for a family of five--pretty amazing when you consider that we pay about twenty thousand per year just for rent.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If they need more they can go find another job? Sounds "callus." SE's spelling. Must be correct.
I am not doubting that there are some government programs in effect. Why are so many people living at or below the poverty level? Please don't tell me it's because they don't know how to manage money.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> hey Cheeky, Was your wonderful son a Boy Scout?


Cub Scout and I was Den Mother. He got into so many activities Scouts went by the wayside. I wouldn't have let him be in Scouts if I knew then what I know now about how some members of our society are not welcome in that organization.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Patty - I need to borrow the RAID again. Unless you want to do the honors. We should get out the bug zapper and plug it in. I love the noise it makes when it turns them into a crispy critters.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Patty - I need to borrow the RAID again. Unless you want to do the honors. We should get out the bug zapper and plug it in. I love the noise it makes when it turns them into a crispy critter.


How about a good old fashioned fly swatter? Heck, I need some exercise anyway.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cub Scout and I was Den Mother. He got into so many activities Scouts went by the wayside. I wouldn't have let him be in Scouts if I knew then what I know now about how some members of our society are not welcome in that organization.


Well that may all change soon. The Boy Scouts may enter the 21st century. Did you know the Girl Scouts have never had the anti gay issue? There was a great op ed from a gay Eagle Scout about reversing the ban.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Andrea, joey loves to correct peoples mistakes. :lol: :lol:


She says she was a teacher, don't you know? That means she knows everything in the whole world and she can read minds too. Just ask her she will tell you. Her and off2knit both got their degrees from Liberty University. You can get those by filling out a coupon and sending in a dollar and they even ordain you at no extra charge.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.
> ...


Poor Joey she has a bad case of poverty envy and she is pretty far gone.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How do you know what I know? I said here in Wisconsin. I work with these people. So I know!!
> 
> It isn't $20,000. with the tax refund it is $28,000 and another $2000 from the state and it is $30,000. and there is no tax on the extra $10,000
> 
> ...


How many jobs do you have joey. You keep mentioning all the jobs you have what do you really do? You aren't on welfare are you joey?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How about a good old fashioned fly swatter? Heck, I need some exercise anyway.


Thanks, Susan!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

One in each hand--the low tech Orkin fan dance.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Never on welfare. The 4 jobs were when my husband had to take early retirement and we had to live on my income.


Yes, and as college senior I worked 35 hours (three part-time jobs) and carried 18 semester units. Woman of all ages can tote the weary load to a heroic degree, but all that changes when children enter the picture.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What's up?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.
> ...


YAWN same old same old


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Remember I only talked about a married couple with 3 children under 17. Only one needs to work at a time, and then there is child care provided by the state for little to no charge. Public school and head start.


So public schools are now just day care? What a slap in the face for those who can't afford charter schools or parochial schools.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Never on welfare. The 4 jobs were when my husband had to take early retirement and we had to live on my income.


It sounds as if life was a struggle for you and your family. How many children did you have at home at that time?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Isn't it a shame our government hasn't learned to become more efficient from the experience of these businesses? Just think how much cost cutting could be accomplished if they followed this regime rather than expanding.



susanmos2000 said:


> Courtesy of Fox News:
> 
> President Obama explained to NBC News that the reason companies aren't hiring is not because of his policies, it's because the economy is so automated. ... "There are some structural issues with our economy where a lot of businesses have learned to become much more efficient with a lot fewer workers. You see it when you go to a bank and you use an ATM, you don't go to a bank teller, or you go to the airport and you're using a kiosk instead of checking in at the gate."


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Perhaps I was not clear. I was not referring to insurance agents but corporate headquarters of insurance companies. That is why when tragedies happen in one state related to homeowners policies they are actuarily factored in to the insurance company's risk tables. This is not true of health insurance. Someone living in one state needs to purchase health insurance of a company with corporate offices in that state. This prevents a competitive edge. This is not true of government plans such as Tri Care.

I cannot speak for states changing their rules, rates and policies. Our state has a rate setting commission.



joeysomma said:


> Can you give an example of someone getting any insurance from a state which is not your permanent residence.
> I have a cousin who is an insurance agent in Illinois. When I had some difficulties with my auto insurance, I called him and asked questions. He could answer questions but was unable to sell me any insurance since he was not licensed to sell insurance in Wisconsin.
> 
> I did work for Sentry insurance 44 years ago. I worked in fire rating. I calculated the premiums for Homeowner policies. I was able to do the premiums for 7 states while I worked there. Each state had its own rates, rules, and written policies. I don't think anything has been changed as far as each state having their own rules, rates, and polices.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Your 7th post back would indicate something else.

Some things may not be related to degrees or IQ but common sense.



alcameron said:


> Thank you Susan and Cheeky. I can't let a psycho basket case get me down, particularly because I know what degrees I hold and what my IQ is.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No one has read the entire ocare bill. Not even your Congressional representative. And by N Pelosi's admission much of it was not available to read prior to the vote. And much of it has nothing to do with health care.

I wish your people in Congress would put forth a bill for Term Limits if they don't consider it a permanent career.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think we all need to take responsibility for understanding what our government is doing. Have you contacted your Congress person and asked why they did not read ACA? I thought that was what we sent them to Washington to do, our business. I am fortunate as I have good representation in Washington and in my state who understand their role is to serve and not see that position as something that should become their permanent job. I don't see Republicans holding their people responsible for anything. Why is that?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> What I read was that the ACA coverage was going to cost up to about 40% more than what people were currently paying for similar coverage through MCHA. At least that's what the Strib published. We know how reliable they are.
> 
> Also, it seems to me that you were not denied coverage as it seems you were able to find it through MCHA.


Yes, I was denied coverage. That is what MCHA is for, people who cannot get insurance do to a preexisting condition. 
Required documentation was an Insurance "Agent Certification of Health Related Rejection to prove I could not get any other coverage. I also was granted a waiver so I would not have a six-month pre-existing condition limitation applied to my policy. They are granted on a case by case basis and I was fortunate to get that. The premium I am paying is almost as much as my COBRA premium was.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> No one has read the entire ocare bill. Not even your Congressional representative. And by N Pelosi's admission much of it was not available to read prior to the vote. And much of it has nothing to do with health care.
> 
> I wish your people in Congress would put forth a bill for Term Limits if they don't consider it a permanent career.


Do you not have people in congress? They do have term limits.
They are called elections.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

No one has read the entire ocare bill. Not even your Congressional representative. And by N Pelosi's admission much of it was not available to read prior to the vote. And much of it has nothing to do with health care.

I wish your people in Congress would put forth a bill for Term Limits if they don't consider it a permanent career.

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
I think we all need to take responsibility for understanding what our government is doing. Have you contacted your Congress person and asked why they did not read ACA? I thought that was what we sent them to Washington to do, our business. I am fortunate as I have good representation in Washington and in my state who understand their role is to serve and not see that position as something that should become their permanent job. I don't see Republicans holding their people responsible for anything. Why is that?

RUKnitting

You never answered my question and I am sure you do not know anything about my people in Congress. I know they do their job which is a far cry better than any Republicans do which is nothing so why don't you ask them to take up Term limits.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Never on welfare. The 4 jobs were when my husband had to take early retirement and we had to live on my income.


Bully for you. We have all been there and done that and much more.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I know my congresswoman didn't read the ACA either, She's busy trying to repeal it. And she is proud of herself for trying to be the 37th person to write a bill to repeal it. I know I am not represented by her as well as the rest of her district. She is out for the news coverage and nothing more. Such a disappointment, so I correspond with one of my senators instead.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Your 7th post back would indicate something else.
> 
> Some things may not be related to degrees or IQ but common sense.


Ah yes, common sense, something you seem to be lacking. You are going on and on and saying nothing of consequence. You are so desperate you are looking back at someone's "7th post back" to find something post. That's just sad on your part.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ah yes, common sense, something you seem to be lacking. You are going on and on and saying nothing of consequence. You are so desperate you are looking back at someone's "7th post back" to find something post. That's just sad on your part.


Especially when it comes to alcameron. She has more common sense than you could dream of having. Plus she bakes great cookies


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I am not a cheer leader. There are plenty here already. There is an old saying if you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem. The first step to a solution is recognizing there is a problem. We are not always right and we are not universally loved. And the lack of love for us is not because of jealously. We do bad things to other people in other countries.
> 
> Could you answer my question?


 Do you mean this one, which I have already answered?

"peacegoddess wrote:
I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.

How do you feel when bad things are done in our name?

I feel very bad when bad things are done. I even feel bad when bad things are done on here. There are a lot of bad things done on here, and that's why I'm trying to stop posting. I fall into the trap of thinking my post is going to change something."


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bully for you. We have all been there and done that and much more.


Oh please share, can't wait.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bully for you. We have all been there and done that and much more.


Speak for yourself, Cheeky.

I admire your hard work, Joeysomma.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Dan Pfeiffer my new hero


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, I was denied coverage. That is what MCHA is for, people who cannot get insurance do to a preexisting condition.
> Required documentation was an Insurance "Agent Certification of Health Related Rejection to prove I could not get any other coverage. I also was granted a waiver so I would not have a six-month pre-existing condition limitation applied to my policy. They are granted on a case by case basis and I was fortunate to get that. The premium I am paying is almost as much as my COBRA premium was.


How can you say you were denied coverage and say you have coverage in the same breath. It's not what _you wanted_ but it is coverage nonetheless.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> How can you say you were denied coverage and say you have coverage in the same breath. It's not what _you wanted_ but it is coverage nonetheless.


Thumper don't you know that rules and laws are irrelevant to the libs?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Thumper don't you know that rules and laws are irrelevant to the libs?


That's right. A White House senior aide told us that yesterday - right on the tv!!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Do you mean this one, which I have already answered?
> 
> "peacegoddess wrote:
> I do not bury my head in the sand when it comes to what our country does that is negative. I appreciate the good and the beautiful, but refuse to be blind to our faults.
> ...


The original post referred to how well the U S is thought of in Germany and Japan. I inserted an article about citizens on Okinawa and the military rapes and how the citizens do not have a favorable attitude toward the U S. My question is how can you and others maintain that the U S is admired in Japan.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Speak for yourself, Cheeky.
> 
> I admire your hard work, Joeysomma.


I did speak for myself, Bonnie. Apparently, you cannot read.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Good morning Cheeky and Peacegoddess. And you, too, off2knit.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good morning Cheeky and Peacegoddess. And you, too, off2knit.


it is another beautiful day and the birds are signing.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> it is another beautiful day and the birds are signing.


Yes, and I'm not going to let anything or anyone inconsequential spoil it. I'm reading my alternet.com newsletter and drinking coffee before I head to the gym.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I guess Obama's policy of spreading the wealth isn't working. He had 2 years of full control of Congress and he was more interested in Obamacare than the poor.
> He did get his way with the taxes last new years eve. The republicans wanted to reduce some of the credits.
> 
> Here in Wisconsin, if a married family of 5 with 3 children under 17 and they work making between $13,000 and $20,000 earned income. They will pay no income tax and get a refund of over $8000. Yes they do pay about 7.5% in payroll tax. Then they more likely than not, have free medical care, rent assistance, energy assistance, food stamps, and child care if both are working.
> ...


If he had control of Congress, then he would be able to get things done. The fact is, he does not control Congress.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I recall a discussion about a thousand pages ago about taxing rich people. Quite a few on here wrote something like "Who are you to tell people how much money they should have?" Does it not work both ways?


Thank you, I was going to point that out also. Glad you did.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> How do you know what I know? I said here in Wisconsin. I work with these people. So I know!!
> 
> It isn't $20,000. with the tax refund it is $28,000 and another $2000 from the state and it is $30,000. and there is no tax on the extra $10,000
> 
> ...


Maybe they have a special needs child and can't work 4 part-time jobs. Maybe they have a slight disability and cannot work 4 part-time jobs. Maybe you don't know their circumstances and perhaps we should try to understand rather than judge.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good morning Cheeky and Peacegoddess. And you, too, off2knit.


I'm here - bright-eyed and bushy tailed!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> How can you say you were denied coverage and say you have coverage in the same breath. It's not what _you wanted_ but it is coverage nonetheless.


Thumper you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Go online and google MCHA. Can you spell that Thumper? M C H A
Do your homework. You are pretty ill informed. Why am I not surprised.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper you don't have a clue what you are talking about. And you think you know about insurance, go online and google MCHA. Can you spell that Thumper? M C H A
> 
> It explains this is Coverage For People Who Have Been Denied Coverage Do To Preexisting Conditions. Do you know what denied means? Then it gives a brief history. Are you still following, Thumper? Then it explains that in 2014 adults will no longer be denied insurance if you have a preexisting medical condition.
> Keep reading Thumper. You are almost there.
> ...


I know all about MCHA. I know what it is and it's purpose. The fact that you _do_ have coverage remains.

Also, stop talking to me like that. You can make your point without being a jerk about it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I'm here - bright-eyed and bushy tailed!


Good morning to you as well GW. I think I will have some herbal tea. Would anyone else like some?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good morning to you as well GW. I think I will have some herbal tea. Would anyone else like some?


Oh yes, please. I love herbal tea.

So I was making my coffee and looked out the window to see a squirrel hanging upside on the fence with this little paws in the bird feeder. All of a sudden, a blue jay swoops down and pecks him on the back. Didn't deter the squirrel a bit!! I love watching the critters play.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I know all about MCHA. I know what it is and it's purpose. The fact that you _do_ have coverage remains.
> 
> Also, stop talking to me like that. You can make your point without being a jerk about it.


Thumper ,You are the one who either cannot or does not want to come out here and interact with others in a polite and civil exchange. Which is it? You put on a good show out here a couple nights ago. Not at all lady like were you? We are here to have a pleasant and intelligent conversation without your drama.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh yes, please. I love herbal tea.
> 
> So I was making my coffee and looked out the window to see a squirrel hanging upside on the fence with this little paws in the bird feeder. All of a sudden, a blue jay swoops down and pecks him on the back. Didn't deter the squirrel a bit!! I love watching the critters play.


We have blue jays and cardinals and they don't let anyone get the best of them. When my little nieces come to visit the birds dive bomb the girls and drive them into the front yard. They all seem to really enjoy it. Lots of fun things to be seen in one's own back yard if only we stop to look. I'm having Good Earth Sweet and Spicy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Congress cannot even control itself. It's a train wreck.



GWPlver said:


> If he had control of Congress, then he would be able to get things done. The fact is, he does not control Congress.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd love a cup. Sun is shining. Bird feeders need filled. Goldfish in the pond are waiting for me too. Top of the morning.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good morning to you as well GW. I think I will have some herbal tea. Would anyone else like some?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I miss squirrels. I've only seen one regular squirrel in AZ in 20 years. I had a black squirrel in Ohio that used to wait at the sliding door to take a whole nut from my hand.



GWPlver said:


> Oh yes, please. I love herbal tea.
> 
> So I was making my coffee and looked out the window to see a squirrel hanging upside on the fence with this little paws in the bird feeder. All of a sudden, a blue jay swoops down and pecks him on the back. Didn't deter the squirrel a bit!! I love watching the critters play.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The original post referred to how well the U S is thought of in Germany and Japan. I inserted an article about citizens on Okinawa and the military rapes and how the citizens do not have a favorable attitude toward the U S. My question is how can you and others maintain that the U S is admired in Japan.


I saw your article. I never saw that question and never commented on Japan's admiration for us and have no experience on that subject.

My father, who was a World War II pilot, started a business as a photographer after the war. He had a Japanese employee. They got along very well, became friends. He and his wife were very nice. I knew them when I was a child. She was beautiful and so kind. He later opened his own successful business teaching judo! They are the only Japanese people I've ever known. They seemed to like our family, and we liked them.

I have no idea what today's Japanese people think of us. It seems most of the world dislikes us very much. I don't know why, but I think the American citizens who relentlessly denigrate our own country contribute to a lot of the misunderstanding and dislike of Americans around the world.

Most of the Americans I know are patriotic, courageous, kind, friendly, open, generous, and good. I love my country and its people. No one is perfect, but we aren't bad either.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I miss squirrels. I've only seen one regular squirrel in AZ in 20 years. I had a black squirrel in Ohio that used to wait at the sliding door to take a whole nut from my hand.


They are cute. We had a baby squirrel that would come to us for nuts. We sure enjoyed that.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> I miss squirrels. I've only seen one regular squirrel in AZ in 20 years. I had a black squirrel in Ohio that used to wait at the sliding door to take a whole nut from my hand.


I was visiting friends in Crested Butte, Colorado and there were chipmunks that would come to the porch and eat. Cutest things! At first, I thought they were gray squirrels because I haven't seen chipmunks in Texas. I wanted to take some back but hubby said no.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> They are cute. We had a baby squirrel that would come to us for nuts. We sure enjoyed that.


Oh, a baby squirrel - that had to be cute!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Innovative, yes. But, it is in the wrong direction. I think it will cause the problem to be worse instead of better. And we will pay dearly for it.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Mother earth is showing us her glory this morning. Woodpecker on a telephone pole, scrub jays out and assertive with the cats. I saw a Stellar jay the other morning. If I get out early enough in the morning I see lots of critters. 

One house I pet sat at last spring I saw a pregnant doe go into labor. I just sat at the window and watched her pant and breathe...it was so glorious! She had two little fawns. I was really close behind a big picture window that looked out on a naturalized "lawn". I was lucky little Mr. Seamus (the Westie) was occupied with his kibble and not barking.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

How special! I find such joy and peace in nature. That must be why I am so intent on saving the earth.



peacegoddess said:


> Mother earth is showing us her glory this morning. Woodpecker on a telephone pole, scrub jays out and assertive with the cats. I saw a Stellar jay the other morning. If I get out early enough in the morning I see lots of critters.
> 
> One house I pet sat at last spring I saw a pregnant doe go into labor. I just sat at the window and watched her pant and breathe...it was so glorious! She had two little fawns. I was really close behind a big picture window that looked out on a naturalized "lawn". I was lucky little Mr. Seamus (the Westie) was occupied with his kibble and not barking.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

How exciting to see the fawns being born. What a treat? There is so much beauty when we live in the moment.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I saw your article. I never saw that question and never commented on Japan's admiration for us and have no experience on that subject.
> 
> My father, who was a World War II pilot, started a business as a photographer after the war. He had a Japanese employee. They got along very well, became friends. He and his wife were very nice. I knew them when I was a child. She was beautiful and so kind. He later opened his own successful business teaching judo! They are the only Japanese people I've ever known. They seemed to like our family, and we liked them.
> 
> I have no idea what today's Japanese people think of us. It seems most of the world dislikes us very much. I don't know why, but I think the American citizens who denigrate our country to an extreme contribute to a lot of misunderstanding and dislike of Americans around the world. Most of the Americans I know are patriotic, courageous, kind, friendly, open, generous, and good. No one is perfect, but we aren't bad either.


Many people can distinguish between individual Americans and U S policy and actions in other countries. The problem is that our government (both liberal and conservative) and U S based and owned corporations create huge difficulties for citizens of other countries. Military bases like the one in Okinawa have bad reputations with locals. Our foreign policies support repressive governments that grant us space for military bases and lease arable land to oil companies and the companies have no health or safety restrictions so there are horrendous oil spills and pollution of rivers and land that people live on and try to grow crops. Check out what is going on in Nigeria. these are just a few examples. I consider myself a patriot, but I agonize at how we (our government's foreign policies) treat people in other countries. After awhile, I think it may be difficult to separate individual Americans from our policies...and that is the crux of our dilemma.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Many people can distinguish between individual Americans and U S policy and actions in other countries. The problem is that our government (both liberal and conservative) and U S based and owned corporations create huge difficulties for citizens of other countries. Military bases like the one in Okinawa have bad reputations with locals. Our foreign policies support repressive governments that grant us space for military bases and lease arable land to oil companies and the companies have no health or safety restrictions so there are horrendous oil spills and pollution of rivers and land that people live on and try to grow crops. Check out what is going on in Nigeria. these are just a few examples. I consider myself a patriot, but I agonize at how we (our government's foreign policies) treat people in other countries. After awhile, I think it may be difficult to separate individual Americans from our policies...and that is the crux of our dilemma.


Have you ever heard of anything good the United States did for another country? And vice versa?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

My thought is that if the US was more corporate and business friendly they would not be starting business overseas. Take GM Cadillac building Caddies in China instead of here in the US. So much for caring about American workers and caring more for the Chinese


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

American workers don't want to work for a lower wage that comes with certain jobs. So, people in other countries will gladly do it. 

It's time for the American worker to step up and take these jobs. But, they don't want to do it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, the USA rebuilt Japan after exploding two nuclear weapons to end the war. And Japan has been a solid ally ever since.



bonbf3 said:


> Have you ever heard of anything good the United States did for another country? And vice versa?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> American workers don't want to work for a lower wage that comes with certain jobs. So, people in other countries will gladly do it.
> 
> It's time for the American worker to step up and take these jobs. But, they don't want to do it.


How about the corporations stepping up and paying a living wage and adhering to the health and safety regs?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Most do pay a decent wage.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Read this today about the top 5 wealthiest countries. 


No. 3: United States, $51,248 per person
I think most investors will recognize this nation. For all the hits the U.S. economy has taken throughout its slow recovery from the depths of the recession, the average American still lives a remarkably wealthy lifestyle. Falling unemployment, which declined to 7.5% recently, and the country's housing rebound have helped America dig out of the economic doldrums. The IMF expects good things ahead for the U.S., predicting a per-capita GDP of more than $63,000 by 2018. While challenges remain for the U.S., the country's GDP continues on an upward track despite the recent tax increases and implementation of sequestration.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Innovative, yes. But, it is in the wrong direction. I think it will cause the problem to be worse instead of better. And we will pay dearly for it.


To what are you responding?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Mother earth is showing us her glory this morning. Woodpecker on a telephone pole, scrub jays out and assertive with the cats. I saw a Stellar jay the other morning. If I get out early enough in the morning I see lots of critters.
> 
> One house I pet sat at last spring I saw a pregnant doe go into labor. I just sat at the window and watched her pant and breathe...it was so glorious! She had two little fawns. I was really close behind a big picture window that looked out on a naturalized "lawn". I was lucky little Mr. Seamus (the Westie) was occupied with his kibble and not barking.


I would have love to have been able to see the two fawns. Deer are such beautiful creatures.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Have you ever heard of anything good the United States did for another country? And vice versa?


I know of many multi national non profits and church groups that go overseas and do the good works such as helping with both simple and extreme medical issues and assisting with creating small worker owned co ops. if you want to point out some positives I have missed I am open to reading about them.

If we are curious about why citizens of other countries do not have a good opinion of us then we we need to examine our warts. It takes courage to see that we are not always right and great in others eyes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am responding the statement about Obamacare being innovative.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I am responding the statement about Obamacare being innovative.


Okay - thank you for the clarification.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I would have love to have been able to see the two fawns. Deer are such beautiful creatures.


i felt really privileged to be an observer.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am responding the statement about Obamacare being innovative.


Lukelucy - I know you are not fond of ACA but it is innovative. It is a huge undertaking and I think it is a step in the right direction. If we don't at least try to make things better nothing will ever change and I believe our healthcare system needs an overhaul.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Read this today about the top 5 wealthiest countries.
> 
> No. 3: United States, $51,248 per person
> I think most investors will recognize this nation. For all the hits the U.S. economy has taken throughout its slow recovery from the depths of the recession, the average American still lives a remarkably wealthy lifestyle. Falling unemployment, which declined to 7.5% recently, and the country's housing rebound have helped America dig out of the economic doldrums. The IMF expects good things ahead for the U.S., predicting a per-capita GDP of more than $63,000 by 2018. While challenges remain for the U.S., the country's GDP continues on an upward track despite the recent tax increases and implementation of sequestration.


I wonder what effect obamacare will have on that.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not have the answer to improving the health care system. I am just afraid that Obamacare will get in the way of what is good for us. From what I hear from many doctors, the government will be making decisions about my needs - not the doctor.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I know of many multi national non profits and church groups that go overseas and do the good works such as helping with both simple and extreme medical issues and assisting with creating small worker owned co ops. if you want to point out some positives I have missed I am open to reading about them.
> 
> If we are curious about why citizens of other countries do not have a good opinion of us then we we need to examine our warts. It takes courage to see that we are not always right and great in others eyes.


Glad to see you're courageous. It seems you're accentuating the negative for some reason. You have great info on the negatives, not so much on the positives. Your choice, of course.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Most do pay a decent wage.


I think this is a futile discussion, as what I and some others consider a living wage and what you and others consider a living wage differs greatly. The back and forth on this and other similar issues just never comes to a common middle ground and I am unsure how to get to a common ground. It is as if we are speaking different languages in addition to coming from a different philosophical perspective.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not have the answer to improving the health care system. I am just afraid that Obamacare will get in the way of what is good for us. From what I hear from many doctors, the government will be making decisions about my needs - not the doctor.


I haven't spoken to many doctors but from the few I have talked with, they say the insurance companies will be making the decisions not the government.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not have the answer to improving the health care system. I am just afraid that Obamacare will get in the way of what is good for us. From what I hear from many doctors, the government will be making decisions about my needs - not the doctor.


The accountants at the insurance companies already make the decisions to what you are going to get, Lukelucy. They decide what care they will offer you and how much they are going to charge. Doctor's can only give you what the insurance company allows. It is still going to be insurance companies who are involved in ACA.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The accountants at the insurance companies already make the decisions to what you are going to get, Lukelucy. They decide what care they will offer you and how much they are going to charge. Doctor's can only give you what the insurance company allows. It is still going to be insurance companies who are involved in ACA.


It has been that way for a long time and will continue. One of doctors has to change a med for me every so often because insurance will suddenly decide they will no longer support that med. It frustrates him because he prefers certain meds over another. Same with procedures.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> It has been that way for a long time and will continue. One of doctors has to change a med for me every so often because insurance will suddenly decide they will no longer support that med. It frustrates him because he prefers certain meds over another. Same with procedures.


I have had that same situation come up GW. I feel fortunate that I have a good doctor who tries to look out for his patients as best he can.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Glad to see you're courageous. It seems you're accentuating the negative for some reason. You have great info on the negatives, not so much on the positives. Your choice, of course.


Just as I give you information you may or may not have, then so too can you provide me with information. I do not necessarily accentuate the negative as much as recognize it when we as a nation are under great scrutiny by others for our warts. I want to understand why others see us the way they do.

Would you like me to list the good deeds? I think we both know what they are. Good deeds speak for themselves.

Did you know about Nigeria and the oil spills, the problems in Okinawa, and other warts? If so then what do you do to prevent such occurrences? I am an activist by letting my representatives know my opinion, I boycott certain corporations products and let them know I do that. I lessen my dependence on fossil fuels.

Tell me about your knowledge and actions and perhaps we will find we have something in common.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I am an activist by letting my representatives know my opinion, I boycott certain corporations products and let them know I do that. I lessen my dependence on fossil fuels.


How it is being an activist by writing a few letters or not buy a certain soap? Who doesn't want to save money and use less energy? 

Heck I do that, and I don't consider myself an activist, just a good consumer and staying on budget.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I'm here - bright-eyed and bushy tailed!


Good morning, GW


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I haven't spoken to many doctors but from the few I have talked with, they say the insurance companies will be making the decisions not the government.


With the insurance companies, I know my doctor at least had input. He told me he spent a lot of time on the phone arguing with insurance companies.

Obamacare will be just one big government-run, IRS snoop-led insurance company.

AND it wasn't thoroughly read - that was NOT allowed before the vote, AND the American people were against it. There would have been more against it if the government hadn't screwed the Tea Party groups trying to get tax-free status. They would have educated more people as to the dangers.

And if you don't agree with me, I already know what you're going to say. Don't bother. I'm not going to read it. You've expressed your opinion many times.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Good morning, GW


Hello!! Hope you are doing well today!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> With the insurance companies, I know my doctor at least had input. He told me he spent a lot of time on the phone arguing with insurance companies.
> 
> Obamacare will be just one big government-run, IRS snoop-led insurance company.
> 
> ...


So then what is the point of you even being in this thread?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

And now I'm going to vent. 

If Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton had not invented the video story, coerced their underlings to promote it, gone on Libya tv themselves and promoted it and their phony outrage, forced survivors to be quiet, demoted whistleblowers, and deceived the American people in order to keep it quiet, obama wouldn't have won the election.

If the IRS hadn't illegally threatened and oppressed and punished Tea Party groups and Romney contributors, Obama wouldn't have won the election. 

Now it's all coming out. 

If Romney were President, you can bet your bottom dollar we wouldn't have a stinking Benghazi scandal with the a president and secretary of state hiding under their desks and pushing their underlings out to take the heat. 

We wouldn't have an IRS illegally persecuting groups not supporting the president, groups who use the words "conservative" or Tea Party, people who express their displeasure with the way the country is going, and people who supported the losing candidate. Both of these scandals pre-date the election and were done so that obama wouldn't lose the election. 

You wouldn't have a president who gave a wink and a nod to these IRS operatives. 

You wouldn't have a president who punished one man who told the truth about Benghazi and then promoted a woman who was behind the IRS crimes.

You wouldn't have a ponzi scheme for a health care program that actually DOES have death panels (thank you, Sarah Palin) and must go the way of Social Security - too many taking money out (for treatment) and not enough putting money in (buying).

You wouldn't have small businesses denying health care, shortening employees' hours, and going under completely due to government harassment, regulation, and mushrooming health care costs.

I'm sure there's more, but I'm tired. Don't bother to respond. Unless you agree with me, I'm not reading your post. I'm tired of listening to you blather on without thinking. I've already read what you think, I recognize blind allegiance and refusal to look objectively at a situation. I'm tired of the criticism of our country. If it's that bad, find a better place. You're certainly not helping. And if you can't admit to yourself that some terrible things have been done by this administration, then you just aren't allowing yourself to accept it.

This country is in trouble. This administration is corrupt. The truth will come out. Time will tell.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Somebody is having a meltdown!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> So then what is the point of you even being in this thread?


I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails. When will it end? How do we stop this from continuing? This is an assault on our freedom. This is dangerous stuff. Maybe you don't care because they're not attacking you. But they are attacking me. Who's next?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> I am an activist by letting my representatives know my opinion, I boycott certain corporations products and let them know I do that. I lessen my dependence on fossil fuels.
> 
> How it is being an activist by writing a few letters or not buy a certain soap? Who doesn't want to save money and use less energy?
> 
> Heck I do that, and I don't consider myself an activist, just a good consumer and staying on budget.


Perhaps you are an activist and just do not use the term.

I go to demonstrations, I visit my congresspeople at local offices and I write more than a few letters. I do more than not buy a certain soap, I know where and how the products I do use and consume are made. I will not purchase from certain retailers because of their corporate labor and environmental practices and I let them know why. I agitate for creating better fuel sources, I do not own a car. I use public transportation and walk. If I absolutely must use a car, I either borrow one or use a car co op. Just as your Christianity is your religion in practice and belief, so are my efforts on behalf of social, environmental, and economic justice my expression of my belief system. while you appear to do similar things from a perspective of saving money, I do it from a perspective of preserving the earth for future generations. I actually do not always save money by buying products that are produced by companies that have environmentally and socially sound practices.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails. When will it end? How do we stop this from continuing? This is an assault on our freedom. This is dangerous stuff. Maybe you don't care because they're not attacking you. But they are attacking me. Who's next?


I do care - I'm not sure whatever made you think I did not care. I don't care for everything this administration has done - but like every administration there are mistakes. He is elected - it is what it is and I have limited control. I am trying to see the positives and do my best. But I'm not going to allow all this to increase my blood pressure.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Somebody is having a meltdown!


No, I've come to my senses. Goodbye, GWPlver. This is a ridiculous waste of my time. If you like this stuff, fine for you. Enjoy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That is only in your opinion, Bonnie. IF Romney were president we would be even more corrupt. The American people spoke when they did not elect him. He just wasn't trusted to run the country by the majority of voters.
The IRS has been doing this since 1959. Not just during the Obama administration. If he gave a wink and a nod, heads in the IRS wouldn't be rolling. Liberal groups were investigated too. Nobody likes what they did, but you blame Obama for it. Why didn't Bush know about it and stop it?

Obama is in office til 2016. Benghazi is an overplayed poltical point scoring scheme by the Repubs. It is doing them more harm than good. We don't know that it indeed was Obama and Hillary Clinton who created the video story. The CIA was heavily involved too.
If you already have insurance, you don't have to use the ACA. Then the IRS won't be snooping on you and taking away any of your freedom. 
Even before the ACA was introduced, small businesses were already opting out of insurance coverage because of high costs from their insurance companies. Some put the entire cost on their employees if they wanted coverage. 

As for corruption goes, I believe Bush held the title on that one. Iraq, Blackwater, Halliburton, and it goes on and on.
And as for the half-governor, Sarah Palin, I wouldn't take her seriuosly. Death Panels are not part of the plan. She's just like a Glen Beck trying to instill fear and and hate among the TeaParty and Republican Party.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good morning Andrea and GW,


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You summed it up for me. Barak is taking away my freedom. Thank you for putting it into those words.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I found Romney to be very honest. He was too honest. That was his problem. Barak knows how to say what people want to hear and it is not the truth.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good morning Andrea and GW!


Hi lady!!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You summed it up for me. Barak is taking away my freedom. Thank you for putting it into those words.


Yes--you're so oppressed, poor darling. Well, I pity someone who hates the President enough to want a bomb dropped on his head. With your kind of attitude, why don't you pack up your bags and scoot? Better hurry--the ark sails at high tide.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails. When will it end? How do we stop this from continuing? This is an assault on our freedom. This is dangerous stuff. Maybe you don't care because they're not attacking you. But they are attacking me. Who's next?


Whether you read this or not I will respond to some of your points.

I did not vote for Obama and am angered by many of his policies. I let the dems know my feelings and why. So I am not blindly allegiant to the present administration. I agree that the IRS investigations are wrong...so were they wrong when environmental and social justice non profits were examined thusly. I protested then as I have now. Conservative groups and liberal radical groups all deserve their privacy rights ...if they are not abusing tax exemption status and I do not think the Tea Party 
groups were abusing theirs.

As you and other conservatives and liberals see abuses and a break down of things here so do I . Education is threatened, our economy needs a major shot of energy for stimulation there are many things that need fixing. Why is it negative when I point out abuses by us overseas and it is not negative when you point out abuses you see here? i do not expect an answer, but would welcome one.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I am off to care for my sweet Nico. See you all later. Have a wonder filled day.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good morning Andrea and GW,


Hi, Bratty. It's a beautiful day, and my exercise routine is complete. I'm thinking about lunch and it isn't even 11 a.m.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Whether you read this or not I will respond to some of your points.
> 
> I did not vote for Obama and am angered by many of his policies. I let the dems know my feelings and why. So I am not blindly allegiant to the present administration. I agree that the IRS investigations are wrong...so were they wrong when environmental and social justice non profits were examined thusly. I protested then as I have now. Conservative groups and liberal radical groups all deserve their privacy rights ...if they are not abusing tax exemption status and I do not think the Tea Party
> groups were abusing theirs.
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> What a stupid girl. Can't spell "callus." Over your head?


How smart does pointing out a typo make you look? Give your nonsense a rest.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How smart does pointing out a typo make you look? Give your nonsense a rest.


Obviously, you didn't read the pages before that, or you wouldn't have made the comment. Tell me how holy and intelligent the ones who were criticizing were. I had already been corrected and attacked by your friends, Soloweygirl.
Now how does your comment make YOU look?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh, dear! I failed to mind my own rule that nobody of any consequence would spoil my day!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I found Romney to be very honest. He was too honest. That was his problem. Barak knows how to say what people want to hear and it is not the truth.


Alternate reality syndrome.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I have no idea who are the senators or representatives of the Milky Way. My state has two dem (or should that be dam) senators and most of the representatives are also dems. In writing to the senators about health care they reply about other issues and thank you for your inquiry. ?????

How wonderful is that?

If there were term limits they would not be permitted to run again. Just like we have presidential term limits.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> No one has read the entire ocare bill. Not even your Congressional representative. And by N Pelosi's admission much of it was not available to read prior to the vote. And much of it has nothing to do with health care.
> 
> I wish your people in Congress would put forth a bill for Term Limits if they don't consider it a permanent career.
> 
> ...


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Most of the Americans I know are patriotic, courageous, kind, friendly, open, generous, and good. I love my country and its people. No one is perfect, but we aren't bad either.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

They are more beautiful when they are not in my gardens.



GWPlver said:


> I would have love to have been able to see the two fawns. Deer are such beautiful creatures.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I sure hope you are correct and that the TRUTH WILL COME OUT. And might I add that those in this administration WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I wish for nothing more.



bonbf3 said:


> And now I'm going to vent.
> 
> If Barack Obama and Hilary Clinton had not invented the video story, coerced their underlings to promote it, gone on Libya tv themselves and promoted it and their phony outrage, forced survivors to be quiet, demoted whistleblowers, and deceived the American people in order to keep it quiet, obama wouldn't have won the election.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Truly it's a DISGRACE this o administration.



bonbf3 said:


> I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails. When will it end? How do we stop this from continuing? This is an assault on our freedom. This is dangerous stuff. Maybe you don't care because they're not attacking you. But they are attacking me. Who's next?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails. When will it end? How do we stop this from continuing? This is an assault on our freedom. This is dangerous stuff. Maybe you don't care because they're not attacking you. But they are attacking me. Who's next?


This is for you and your friends who obviously don't have a clue how your own government runs. Obama is the President and that is it. In order for him to do all the things you accuse him of he would have to be a dictator. As far as I know there hasn't been an over throw of the government, that's what you Tea Party radicals keep talking about starting. Did it ever occur to you to ask the clowns you sent to Washington what the heck are you doing letting Obama and Hillary get away with all this? If not then why not? They are there to serve you. Seems as though you aren't getting your moneys worth are you? Are they afraid of Obama and Hillary? What's your answer folks on the right? Maybe, just maybe the GOP is on the skids and you finally see it coming. It's sure obvious to a lot of people and you all seem to be the last to know what's going on. The GOP is grasping at straws. There has been wrong doing and we admit it on the left when it happens but the right will stick up for their own no matter how grievous the crime. You let Bush and Chaney kill thousands of our own for nothing! Where is your remorse for those brave Americans. You pick and chose what suits you and ignore the rest. What ever wrong doing has been done will be corrected but nothing big enough to even begin to take down this government is in the cards. 
You were shocked when Obama won first time and you were so sure Mitt would win and he lost! Now Hillary will be the next President and you have nobody. You are just throwing cow pies at the side of the barn and it ain't sticking folks so you might as well take your little cow patties home with you and make some good use of them. They make really good frisbees if you dry them out in the sun. It's good to recycle, go green!

Three Branches of Government

In 1787 leaders of the states gathered to write the Constitution-a set of principles that told how the new nation would be governed.

The leaders of the states wanted a strong and fair national government. But they also wanted to protect individual freedoms and prevent the government from abusing its power. They believed they could do this by having three separate branches of government: the executive, the legislative and the judicial. This separation is described in the first three articles, or sections, of the Constitution.

Legislative Branch

The legislative branch is made up of the two houses of Congressthe Senate and the House of Representatives. The most important duty of the legislative branch is to make laws. Laws are written, discussed and voted on in Congress.

There are 100 senators in the Senate, two from each state. Senators are elected by their states and serve six-year terms. The Vice President of the U.S. is considered the head of the Senate, but does not vote in the Senate unless there is a tie. The Senate approves nominations made by the President to the Cabinet, the Supreme Court, federal courts and other posts. The Senate must ratify all treaties by a two-thirds vote.

There are 435 representatives in the House of Representatives. The number of representatives each state gets is based on its population. For example, California has many more representatives than Rhode Island. When Census figures determine that the population of a state has changed significantly, the number of representatives in that state may shift proportionately. Representatives are elected by their states and serve two-year terms. The Speaker of the House, elected by the representatives, is considered the head of the House.

Both parties in the Senate and the House of Representatives elect leaders. The leader of the party that controls the house is called the majority leader. The other party leader is called the minority leader.

See also: Congress.

Executive Branch

The President is the head of the executive branch, which makes laws official. The President is elected by the entire country and serves a four-year term. The President approves and carries out laws passed by the legislative branch. He appoints or removes cabinet members and officials. He negotiates treaties, and acts as head of state and commander in chief of the armed forces.

The executive branch also includes the Vice President and other officials, such as members of the cabinet. The cabinet is made up of the heads of the 15 major departments of the government. The cabinet gives advice to the President about important matters.

The Cabinet

The Secretary of State
The Secretary of the Treasury
The Secretary of Defense
The Attorney General (Justice Department)
The Secretary of the Interior
The Secretary of Agriculture
The Secretary of Commerce
The Secretary of Labor
The Secretary of Health and Human Services
The Secretary of Homeland Security
The Secretary of Housing and Urban Development
The Secretary of Transportation
The Secretary of Education
The Secretary of Energy
The Secretary of Veterans' Affairs
See also: Presidents.

Judicial Branch

The judicial branch oversees the court system of the U.S. Through court cases, the judicial branch explains the meaning of the Constitution and laws passed by Congress. The Supreme Court is the head of the judicial branch. Unlike a criminal court, the Supreme Court rules whether something is constitutional or unconstitutionalwhether or not it is permitted under the Constitution.

On the Supreme Court there are nine justices, or judges: eight associate justices and one chief justice. The judges are nominated by the President and approved by the Senate. They have no term limits. The Supreme Court is the highest court in the land. Its decisions are final, and no other court can overrule those decisions. Decisions of the Supreme Court set precedentsnew ways of interpreting the law.

Significant Supreme Court Cases

1803 Marbury v. Madison was the first time a law passed by Congress was declared unconstitutional
1857 Dred Scott v. SanfordDeclared that a slave was not a citizen, and that Congress could not outlaw slavery in U.S. territories
1896 Plessy v. FergusonSaid that racial segregation was legal
1954 Brown v. Board of EducationMade racial segregation in schools illegal
1966 Miranda v. Arizona stated that criminal suspects must be informed of their rights before being questioned by the police.
1973 Roe v. WadeMade abortion legal
2003 Grutter v. Bollinger and Gratz v. BollingerRuled that colleges can, under certain conditions, consider race and ethnicity in admissions.
See also: Supreme Court.

Fact Monster/Information Please® Database, © 2008 Pearson Education, Inc. All rights reserved.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Truly it's a DISGRACE this o administration.


Maybe my post above will help you and bonnie and your other friends to understand your government and ask your own party why they aren't doing squat for you in Washington. I guess they turned over all their power in the Legislative branch to Hillary and Obama. If somebody did that to me I would be furious with them, not the other side. Reminds me of when a woman's husband cheats on her and the wife tears out and beats up the other woman when what she should be doing is beating the C--P out of her husband. He's the one who did her wrong. They sure have let you down haven't they.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I'm not watching this thread any more. I'm just fed up with the America-bashing and the blind allegiance to a corrupt administration. Just heard today that the Department of Justice has also illegally read a reporter's emails.


Alas the Department had a court order to read those emails. Not sure what Rosen was up to, but it must have been pretty good.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Maybe this will help you and bonnie and your other friends to understand your government and ask your own party why they aren't doing squat for you. They sure have let you down haven't they.


Yes, the Grand Old Party really has. In a way I understand the ultra-right's frustration--the GOP as good as promised them to sweep Obama out of office. Maybe Bonnie and the others should sue the Republican Party for breach of contract.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Alas the Department had a court order to read those emails. Not sure what Rosen was up to, but it must have been pretty good.


Poor Bonnie she is falling behind on her current events.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, the Grand Old Party really has. In a way I understand the ultra-right's frustration--the GOP as good as promised them to sweep Obama out of office. Maybe Bonnie and the others should sue the Republican Party for breach of contract.


Not a bad idea. They really didn't get their monies worth.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I sure hope you are correct and that the TRUTH WILL COME OUT. And might I add that those in this administration WILL BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. I wish for nothing more.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Dream on. Your party is on it's last legs. What is in need of correction will be done and no Obama will not be impeached or leave office. Then our empress, Hillary, will reign over the land for eight more years and so on and so forth. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Truly it's a DISGRACE this o administration.


The GOP, now that's a disgrace. How could they have let this happen to you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I found Romney to be very honest. He was too honest. That was his problem. Barak knows how to say what people want to hear and it is not the truth.


Lukelucy the GOP hoodwinked you. What were they doing to stop Obama. Did you send a bunch of incompetents to Washington who couldn't hold him back?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes--you're so oppressed, poor darling. Well, I pity someone who hates the President enough to want a bomb dropped on his head. With your kind of attitude, why don't you pack up your bags and scoot? Better hurry--the ark sails at high tide.


It's going to get really crowded when they start loading on the dinosaurs. :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Susan get a new playbook. Bringing up a sarcastic remark from 
months ago is all you have got?

Remember in the dem playbook, divert attention away from the real important stuff, then attack others. Don't want to talk about the IRS, Benghazi, investigating the AP and now a Fox reporter, Fast and Furious, and there is another one about the Obama Administration soliciting funds from corporations to fund Obamacare enrollment. But all of the breaking of laws and ethic violations are irrelevant according to the WH adviser over the weekend. In fact, he made Susan Rice not look as stupid as when she did her 5 shows telling lies.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Susan get a new playbook. Bringing up a sarcastic remark from
> months ago is all you have got?
> 
> Remember in the dem playbook, divert attention away from the real important stuff, then attack others. Don't want to talk about the IRS, Benghazi, investigating the AP and now a Fox reporter, Fast and Furious, and there is another one about the Obama Administration soliciting funds from corporations to fund Obamacare enrollment. But all of the breaking of laws and ethic violations are irrelevant according to the WH adviser over the weekend. In fact, he made Susan Rice not look as stupid as when she did her 5 shows telling lies.


You have it all wrong. Republicans are the ones who are grasping at every little thing trying to impeach Obama. Such stupid thinking!


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Really all this arguing, when people are hurting in OK! 
The truth will come out, but right now, I feel for the people in OK.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Really all this arguing, when people are hurting in OK!
> The truth will come out, but right now, I feel for the people in OK.


me too you all should be praying for them, school hit car's piled up in front of it the town is gone. To heck with the left or the right.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Really all this arguing, when people are hurting in OK!
> The truth will come out, but right now, I feel for the people in OK.


I didn't even know what was going on. I've tuned into the news.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Susan get a new playbook. Bringing up a sarcastic remark from
> months ago is all you have got?


Unfortunately it's the kind of comment that sticks with me--every time lukelucy opens her mouth I'm reminded once again of how deep the hatred of Obama can run. Scary stuff.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I didn't even know what was going on. I've tuned into the news.


Really something--the one that tore through Oklahoma City was a mile wide! No deaths reported though from that twister, which is amazing.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Please do not refer to me again. I do not want to know you or be affiliated with you in any way. I will ignore you in the future, and I am hoping that you will ignore me.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Susan,

From my deepest heart, you are very frightening to me. YOU are SCARY! 

As I said before, I will not respond to you, and PLEASE ignore me. YOU are "scary stuff".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please do not refer to me again. I do not want to know you or be affiliated with you in any way. I will ignore you in the future, and I am hoping that you will ignore me.


Sorry, no dice. As long as you keep posting your inane comments I'll respond at will.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That's fine. From this point on I will ignore you. No problem.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Really something--the one that tore through Oklahoma City was a mile wide! No deaths reported though from that twister, which is amazing.


Oh but they will be reported, as two schools were hit and one was a K thru 6. With cars piled up in front of it . Not Oklahoma city either Moore was the name of the town.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

It is terrible. It seems storms are getting worse. Could it be global warming? We were dead center of Irene and went through a lot. I am sure this is worse.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

There have been deaths. Children in one school are all safe. 
Don't know about the other one.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> There have been deaths. Children in one school are all safe.
> Don't know about the other one.


And they are expecting more storms through there until tomorrow. Those poor people. It must be horrible to be the parents of those children in the elementary school and worrying if they are still allive. One news report a women who lived a cross the street from the school said they were pulling children out from underneath the cars in from of the school.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It is terrible. It seems storms are getting worse. Could it be global warming? We were dead center of Irene and went through a lot. I am sure this is worse.


Glad you are o.k.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yarnlady,

Thank you. Irene was the quietest storm. Absolutely no concern while I was awake. When we woke up, the earth was gone. We were fine, but could not get out for a couple of weeks. Others were far worse. 

One person had a mortgage on land and house. Both land and house disappeared. They still have a mortgage on something that does not exist...


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Hearing bad news from the other school, praying for a miracle. I do hope what they are reporting is wrong.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

P.S. The road is still not fixed - but I must say the state really pulled through by getting major roads fixed quickly. They said to companies, "Just do it and worry about money later."


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Hearing bad news from the other school, praying for a miracle. I do hope what they is reporting are wrong.


A lady who live near the school said she saw them pulling children out from under the cars. There must have been between 20 to 25 cars piled in the opening to the school. Praying for those family's . And really don't care if the so called do not beleive in my God cares, I am Praying for them. Life is hard enough, and prayers get answered more than one would think.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Will pray too.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> P.S. The road is still not fixed - but I must say the state really pulled through by getting major roads fixed quickly. They said to companies, "Just do it and worry about money later."


Then you understand what they went through with Sandy. It must be hard to have to start all over again when you loose so much.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

They are reporting 24 children missing.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am afraid it is just the beginning. Info is just coming in.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I just keep praying, those poor people.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Bydie said:


> They are reporting 24 children missing.


I know, I am praying for a miracle.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> Thank you. Irene was the quietest storm. Absolutely no concern while I was awake. When we woke up, the earth was gone. We were fine, but could not get out for a couple of weeks. Others were far worse.
> 
> One person had a mortgage on land and house. Both land and house disappeared. They still have a mortgage on something that does not exist...


you mean they still expected those poor people to pay off the mortgage. Wow.
Glad you made it through it had to be hard.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, they expected them to pay. She was crying on the radio asking for help. The damage to us is still evident everywhere. Houses cracked in half still are there to look at.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I am off to care for my sweet Nico. See you all later. Have a wonder filled day.


I like that - a wonder filled day. So much better than "Have a great day!" May I borrow the saying?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> They are more beautiful when they are not in my gardens.


Well, there is that. Somewhat like bunnies - so cute but darn they eat a lot of my stuff!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

It's reported that about 65 children have been admitted to hospital with a variety of injuries. It sounds like those trapped in the one school may have drowned.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> I like that - a wonder filled day. So much better than "Have a great day!" May I borrow the saying?


Well sure. No need to ask. I use it with the children I watch and we have wonder filled moments every day!

About the deer have you tried coyote urine as a deterrent? It works for lots of critters and you can get it online.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> It's reported that about 65 children have been admitted to hospital with a variety of injuries. It sounds like those trapped in the one school may have drowned.


Oh no. I heard one high schooler walk 3 miles to get home just to let his parents know he was o.k. They are having trouble getting through with phones as so many are trying to find out if their loved ones or friends are o.k.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> It's reported that about 65 children have been admitted to hospital with a variety of injuries. It sounds like those trapped in the one school may have drowned.


This has really been a year. I remember watching a program in December predicting the many storms because of a weather pattern that had supposedly moved off but was coming back and would affect our weather adversely. Shining on all those in Oklahoma!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I just read a report about the tornado. Really scary for the children and parents must be sick with worry. Natural disasters just seem to keep coming and coming this year. My heart is sore.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, they expected them to pay. She was crying on the radio asking for help. The damage to us is still evident everywhere. Houses cracked in half still are there to look at.


I was reading about folks in West, Texas where the fertilizer plant exploded. A large portion of the money they received from FEMA is going to pay for the cost of hauling off what is left of their homes. A landfill is not close to West so the cost of the fuel and haul off is rather large even though the haul off companies are giving them a discount. Having never been through a disaster on a personal level, I did not stop to think about what happens after. This is a good example of that. Crisis upon crisis.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Andrea since you can't even respect the Administration's rules regarding avatars, how can anyone respect anything you say?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Andrea since you can't even respect the Administration's rules regarding avatars, how can anyone respect anything you say?


What's the rule? I'll have to look it up. I just thought I'd post something to honor stupidity. I knew nothing about the rule.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

By the way, you're always posting vicious things about the current administration so you aren't really one to throw stones, are you?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> What's the rule? I'll have to look it up. I just thought I'd post something to honor stupidity. I knew nothing about the rule.


Speaking of stupidity!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

News report now says 51 dead in Moore, OK, so far 7 children, 120 injured and in hospitals.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Speaking of stupidity!


Welcome back, Bydie! Your friend and successor, off2knit, started this current minor vendetta by insulting my intelligence and attacking everything I say. Since she proclaims herself a good Christian, (and I thought you were, too) I thought her attacks (and yours) were beneath the standard for a good Christian. I was wrong! I had been a very good girl, but now that I'm nasty and don't know anything I've sunk to her (and your) level. Where's CB when you need her?


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Really ladies! People have lost lives! Children are dead!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> News report now says 51 dead in Moore, OK, so far 7 children, 120 injured and in hospitals.


I just heard on radio it is up to 77 now. But we know that it is all still new and may go up or done. So much confussion right now.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> I just heard on radio it is up to 77 now. But we know that it is all still new and may go up or done. So much confussion right now.


I heard they will be using heat sensors to try to locate people. It will be a very long night for all these people!!


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Welcome back, Bydie! Your friend and successor, off2knit, started this current minor vendetta by insulting my intelligence and attacking everything I say. Since she proclaims herself a good Christian, (and I thought you were, too) I thought her attacks (and yours) were beneath the standard for a good Christian. I was wrong! I had been a very good girl, but now that I'm nasty and don't know anything I've sunk to her (and your) level. Where's CB when you need her?


Don't you dare pick on CB, the tornado siren went off by her, she is worried about her daughter too. She went off as soon as the sirens went off.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Speaking of stupidity!


oh oh I mean oh oh :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Don't you dare pick on CB, the tornado siren went off by her, she is worried about her daughter too. She went off as soon as the sirens went off.


Does her daughter live in Oklahoma?? I hope she is all right.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I heard they will be using heat sensors to try to locate people. It will be a very long night for all these people!!


Also the schitzen dogs. (I probably didn't spell that right)


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Does her daughter live in Oklahoma?? I hope she is all right.


No they are in Arkansas which is next in line for the storms they are moving from Oklahoma into Ark. tonight. Just pray for her, this weather is not good for any of them right now and won't be over until after tomorrow if then.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> No they are in Arkansas which is next in line for the storms they are moving from Oklahoma into Ark. tonight. Just pray for her, this weather is not good for any of them right now and won't be over until after tomorrow if then.


I think CB is farther east in Ark. than the tornado path. I HOPE so anyway.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I think CB is farther east in Ark. than the tornado path. I HOPE so anyway.


me too.
wonder when the President will go donw for his photo op.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Andrea since you can't even respect the Administration's rules regarding avatars, how can anyone respect anything you say?


Excuse me, but didn't you use an Obama picture for your avatar in the last few weeks?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Probably after he goes to bed and then he'll stop on his way to Vegas for a campaign rally or fund raiser.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Now Bydie, we all know he isn't running again, because he beat the shorts off Romney in November. 
And your Marine quote does not apply to the the Marines 
who are in the 8th and I. They do hold umbrellas fro their Commander in Chief.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Probably after he goes to bed and then he'll stop on his way to Vegas for a campaign rally or fund raiser.


Oh I forgot that, he is busy isn't he.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I think CB is farther east in Ark. than the tornado path. I HOPE so anyway.


they said the storms are going to reach all of the way up here too. But we are only in the severe watch area.

Got to love the hubby he ask if he should wake me up if the sirens go off tonight.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> they said the storms are going to reach all of the way up here too. But we are only in the severe watch area.
> 
> Got to love the hubby he ask if he should wake me up if the sirens go off tonight.


Sleep with one ear open, Yarnie and stay safe.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Sleep with one ear open, Yarnie and stay safe.


Absolutely--watch out for falling houses.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Sleep with one ear open, Yarnie and stay safe.


Nope I sleep through the storms around here. Thats why he wants to know if he should wake me up. I told him just throw a mattress over me, and tie it down.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Nope I sleep through the storms around here. Thats why he wants to know if he should wake me up. I told him just throw a mattress over me, and tie it down.


IF we don't hear from you tomorrow, we'll follow the yellow brick road until we find you! :lol: :lol:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yarnlady,
> 
> Thank you. Irene was the quietest storm. Absolutely no concern while I was awake. When we woke up, the earth was gone. We were fine, but could not get out for a couple of weeks. Others were far worse.
> 
> One person had a mortgage on land and house. Both land and house disappeared. They still have a mortgage on something that does not exist...


So much destruction and grief. I'm so sad about all those children - and their poor parents just waiting. I taught first grade, and the thought of those dear children dying at school is just too much.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Nope I sleep through the storms around here. Thats why he wants to know if he should wake me up. I told him just throw a mattress over me, and tie it down.


LOL. You're brave, but still I'm praying you stay safe.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> So much destruction and grief. I'm so sad about all those children - and their poor parents just waiting. I taught first grade, and the thought of those dear children dying at school is just too much.


Yes, bonbf, it's heartbreaking. The school was ground zero. Poor parents.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Bydie said:


> IF we don't hear from you tomorrow, we'll follow the yellow brick road until we find you! :lol: :lol:


Don't worry I was thinking how far can it go. With gas prices the way they are it may be a new form of transportian. Who knows a good wind could be the next green energy thingy. I could ask goverment for money to lend me, and it could work. Even if I go bankrupt, no problem, just write it off as a lost on my taxes. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> LOL. You're brave, but still I'm praying you stay safe.


Don't worry am sure we will only have a bad storm, I think those in Ok. will be living through all of what has happen down there for a long time. I just hope the goverment doesn't screw it up for them like they have done with other places.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Susan get a new playbook. Bringing up a sarcastic remark from
> months ago is all you have got?
> 
> Remember in the dem playbook, divert attention away from the real important stuff, then attack others. Don't want to talk about the IRS, Benghazi, investigating the AP and now a Fox reporter, Fast and Furious, and there is another one about the Obama Administration soliciting funds from corporations to fund Obamacare enrollment. But all of the breaking of laws and ethic violations are irrelevant according to the WH adviser over the weekend. In fact, he made Susan Rice not look as stupid as when she did her 5 shows telling lies.


Once again you display what you don't know. Surprise us just once, will you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Truly it's a DISGRACE this o administration.


What is a DISGRACE are the leaders of the Republican Party or should I say what's left of it. Now term limits would really be great for McConnell, Cantor and Boehner, who is so close to losing the speakership. He can't lead his own party in Congress, let alone the entire House of Representatives.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What is a DISGRACE are the leaders of the Republican Party or should I say what's left of it. Now term limits would really be great for McConnell, Cantor and Boehner, who is so close to losing the speakership.


Why bother? No way The Three Stooges will be re-elected. Obstructing Obama may seem like a fine sport to Larry, Curly, and Moe, but it'll count as diddly-squat to the voters in 2016.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Also the schitzen dogs. (I probably didn't spell that right)


The training I think you're referring to is schutzhund training. The only reason I know this is that my son has trained his dog and some others using this method. They use certain breeds which are trained in tracking, obedience, and protection. There are various levels at which the dog can be certified. You can look it up online.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I just read a report about the tornado. Really scary for the children and parents must be sick with worry. Natural disasters just seem to keep coming and coming this year. My heart is sore.


Mine too. My sister is vacationing in Al. She and her boyfriend were staying on the beach. There was a missing 8 yo boy that was missing. They found him floating in the ocean last night. He was autistic and his baby sitter was taking a nap. Then we heard of a missing 14 yo girl in our state was found dead. She had been missing for 2 months. He stepfil killed himself I guess after he killled her and they just found her. Then the Ok tornado. I am heart sick so much misery happpening. Thankful the tornado didn't harm my daughter, 2 grandboys and sil that live on the border of OK and Ar. Only trees down and no power. Thank You Lord for hearing our prayer for her safety.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Mine too. My sister is vacationing in Al. She and her boyfriend were staying on the beach. There was a missing 8 yo boy that was missing. They found him floating in the ocean last night. He was autistic and his baby sitter was taking a nap. Then we heard of a missing 14 yo girl in our state was found dead. She had been missing for 2 months. He stepfil killed himself I guess after he killled her and they just found her. Then the Ok tornado. I am heart sick so much misery happpening. Thankful the tornado didn't harm my daughter, 2 grandboys and sil that live on the border of OK and Ar. Only trees down and no power. Thank You Lord for hearing our prayer for her safety.


I'm glad your family is safe, CB.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why bother? No way The Three Stooges will be re-elected. Obstructing Obama may seem like a fine sport to Larry, Curly, and Moe, but it'll count as diddly-squat to the voters in 2016.


You got that right, Susan!! :lol:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The training I think you're referring to is schutzhund training. The only reason I know this is that my son has trained his dog and some others using this method. They use certain breeds which are trained in tracking, obedience, and protection. There are various levels at which the dog can be certified. You can look it up online.


Just did. What level did your son's dog reach?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Welcome back, Bydie! Your friend and successor, off2knit, started this current minor vendetta by insulting my intelligence and attacking everything I say. Since she proclaims herself a good Christian, (and I thought you were, too) I thought her attacks (and yours) were beneath the standard for a good Christian. I was wrong! I had been a very good girl, but now that I'm nasty and don't know anything I've sunk to her (and your) level. Where's CB when you need her?


I am here Andrea. Did you need me? Sorry I was with my dh at the dr today then on my knees praying for my family and the ones in OK. I have a headache and heartache from all the news today.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You got that right, Susan!! :lol:


Even some of the Republicans are beginning to realize this, it appears. Driving Obama out of office would have been a feather in their caps, but with his approval rating at 53% they seem to be giving up. So then what? Filling their resumes with all the legislation they blocked in the past eight years simply isn't going to cut it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I am here Andrea. Did you need me? Sorry I was with my dh at the dr today then on my knees praying for my family and the ones in OK. I have a headache and heartache from all the news today.


Saw your post on the other thread, CB. Glad your daughter's OK, at least for now.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm glad your family is safe, CB.


Thanks Patty. I am happy too. Now if my youngest son and oldest grandson will get home from working out of town I can truly have peace.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Saw your post on the other thread, CB. Glad your daughter's OK, at least for now.


Thank you


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just did. What level did your son's dog reach?


I can't remember, but I'll ask. It was quite awhile ago, and Desa died last year. She almost reached 17, which is great for a German Shepherd. The training is pretty intense and not all dogs can pass at any level. Desa was a great dog!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I can't remember, but I'll ask. It was quite awhile ago, and Desa died last year. She almost reached 17, which is great for a German Shepherd. The training is pretty intense and not all dogs can pass at any level. Desa was a great dog!


I can imagine! I've had a few dogs over the years, and there's no doubt in my mind that all would have been the Schutzhund class dunces. I guess success depends on the dog as well as the trainer.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Mine too. My sister is vacationing in Al. She and her boyfriend were staying on the beach. There was a missing 8 yo boy that was missing. They found him floating in the ocean last night. He was autistic and his baby sitter was taking a nap. Then we heard of a missing 14 yo girl in our state was found dead. She had been missing for 2 months. He stepfil killed himself I guess after he killled her and they just found her. Then the Ok tornado. I am heart sick so much misery happpening. Thankful the tornado didn't harm my daughter, 2 grandboys and sil that live on the border of OK and Ar. Only trees down and no power. Thank You Lord for hearing our prayer for her safety.


Tragic about the deaths. I'm so glad your daughter and boys are ok.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Andrea since you can't even respect the Administration's rules regarding avatars, how can anyone respect anything you say?


Did you check out Bydies?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That's off2knit for you!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> By the way, you're always posting vicious things about the current administration so you aren't really one to throw stones, are you?


Wrong administration.

From: Admin (all from/all to) 
Subject: Politics 
Please limit politics to GCC section only. That includes avatars.

That was my message, I am sure that you received one as well. The moment I read it, I changed mine and followed the rule.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Absolutely--watch out for falling houses.


Totally unnecessary and cruel


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wrong administration.
> 
> From: Admin (all from/all to)
> Subject: Politics
> ...


Read it again. Doesn't mean you can't have an avatar with political overtones--but those who do are restricted to the General section.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wrong administration.
> 
> From: Admin (all from/all to)
> Subject: Politics
> ...


Haven't received anything and didn't know the rule. I have no problem changing it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I haven't heard anything either. Do we know the rule?



alcameron said:


> Haven't received anything and didn't know the rule. I have no problem changing it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I haven't heard anything either. Do we know the rule?


I only found out about this when, with an avatar depicting Obama and Clinton, I posted on the Main board. I got tons of complimentary PMs from other site members AND one from Admin telling me to either change my avatar or stay in the General section.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Wrong administration.
> 
> From: Admin (all from/all to)
> Subject: Politics
> ...


I received no message and I interpret the rule to mean you should stick to GCC if you use a political photo. 
I did this just to make you deliriously happy, oh SE.
:hunf:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I only found out about this when, with an avatar depicting Obama and Clinton, I posted on the Main board. I got tons of complimentary PMs from other site members AND one from Admin telling me to either change my avatar or stay in the General section.


Is it appropriate for you to use a picture posted by another KP member for your personal avatar as you have? The OP shared a lovely picture, but I didn't see you complimenting her post, at least not publicly.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Hot off the press

Senate Report Says Apple Avoids Billions in Taxes

The tech giant Apple is being accused of a massive tax-dodging scheme that saved it tens of billions of dollars. A bipartisan Senate report says Apple avoided paying U.S. taxes on $44 billion in income between 2009 and 2012. The report describes a massive and unprecedented web of affiliates spanning several continents. The subsidiaries were used to hide the companys profits even in countries where Apple had no employees


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Is it appropriate for you to use a picture posted by another KP member for your personal avatar as you have? The OP shared a lovely picture, but I didn't see you complimenting her post, at least not publicly.


Frankly I see no problem with it as long as the poster didn't create the image herself. But it can't hurt to check--thanks for the reminder.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Actually, given what's going on in the Midwest this avatar seems a lot more appropriate. My thoughts and prayers.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Had one in Ireland with only one token employee.

Doubt it, but do you think Apple will need to pay taxes retroactively? That could help our national debt.



peacegoddess said:


> Hot off the press
> 
> Senate Report Says Apple Avoids Billions in Taxes
> 
> The tech giant Apple is being accused of a massive tax-dodging scheme that saved it tens of billions of dollars. A bipartisan Senate report says Apple avoided paying U.S. taxes on $44 billion in income between 2009 and 2012. The report describes a massive and unprecedented web of affiliates spanning several continents. The subsidiaries were used to hide the companys profits even in countries where Apple had no employees


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Hot off the press
> 
> Senate Report Says Apple Avoids Billions in Taxes
> 
> The tech giant Apple is being accused of a massive tax-dodging scheme that saved it tens of billions of dollars. A bipartisan Senate report says Apple avoided paying U.S. taxes on $44 billion in income between 2009 and 2012. The report describes a massive and unprecedented web of affiliates spanning several continents. The subsidiaries were used to hide the companys profits even in countries where Apple had no employees


They did not do anything illegal, because of the current tax code. Not judging the morality of it, just the legality. No wonder they have such high stock prices.

They also suggested to revise the tax code so they don't have to do business outside the country.

Don't blame Apple, blame the tax code


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> They did not do anything illegal, because of the current tax code. Not judging the morality of it, just the legality. No wonder they have such high stock prices.
> 
> They also suggested to revise the tax code so they don't have to do business outside the country.
> 
> Don't blame Apple, blame the tax code


Why is not ok to judge the morality of a corporation, but is okay to judge the private decision of a woman? Is this a double standard you advocate?


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Since both are not doing something illegal, judging either one according to your views on the issue could be a double standard. Guess it depends on your view of the matter.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Why is not ok to judge the morality of a corporation, but is okay to judge the private decision of a woman? Is this a double standard you advocate?


I don't think Apple has murdered anyone.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Why is not ok to judge the morality of a corporation, but is okay to judge the private decision of a woman? Is this a double standard you advocate?


Peacegoddess, Are you judging Apple? Do you support what Apple has done (legally) or are you against the/any corporate entity? Legality and morality are not the same concern, so your response to another KP member is confusing to me.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> Since both are not doing something illegal, judging either one according to your views on the issue could be a double standard. Guess it depends on your view of the matter.


As I have said before, I do make value judgements and I do not apologize for it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> As I have said before, I do make value judgements and I do not apologize for it.


So you don't support how Apple operates, correct?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Peacegoddess, Are you judging Apple? Do you support what Apple has done (legally) or are you against the/any corporate entity? Legality and morality are not the same concern, so your response to another KP member is confusing to me.


I consider what Apple and other such corporations are doing as morally wrong. Their decisions are not comparable to a woman making a very personal private decision to choose an abortion and the decision by corporate officers to "legally" bilk the government and ultimately the U S populace of tax money that would affect thousands of people. Many may disagree with me, many will agree.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Why is not ok to judge the morality of a corporation, but is okay to judge the private decision of a woman? Is this a double standard you advocate?


Well snap, getting snarky today.

Corporations follow the law, it is not a moral decision. What I meant to question if the law was correct. Apple following the tax law did not murder anyone.

I believe abortion is murder, and since it does involve the killing of another person, (except to save the mother). 
So if standing by my religious beliefs seems like judgement to you, it is what it is.

Just wondering how many libs have iphones and ipads. Seemed like a lot of them being used by the Occupy Wall Street gang


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Help me out here ladies. WHY does a school in the middle of Tornado Alley, built in the 60s, where the town suffered an even worse disaster 13 years ago, NOT have a Shelter in Place Plan and accommodating protection for the children??? 

I'm trying to not be judgmental here. I understand that when you live in ever present danger, you can become fearless and lax. When we lived in Kansas and OK while in the AF, we used to stand on the back deck and watch the tornadoes hop about in the horizon...it was exciting. But when they started to turn in our direction, we headed for the shelter. 

One woman had the good sense to go to the school and get her kids as soon as she heard of the coming disaster. 
It breaks my heart.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Why is not ok to judge the morality of a corporation, but is okay to judge the private decision of a woman? Is this a double standard you advocate?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bydie said:


> I don't think Apple has murdered anyone.


The difference in opinions here is whether one considers abortion murder.....I do not.

I can argue that this type of creative tax evasion creates situations where some in our society are deprived of basic necessities and ultimately harmed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Apple just cost the taxpayers a lot of money and increased the national debt. I guess that's just a couple more things that only bother you at times. Most inconsistent.



Bydie said:


> I don't think Apple has murdered anyone.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Peacegoddess, Are you judging Apple? Do you support what Apple has done (legally) or are you against the/any corporate entity? Legality and morality are not the same concern, so your response to another KP member is confusing to me.


Get use to it, she might be having a possible post hippie senior moment.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Apple just cost the taxpayers a lot of money and increased the national debt. I guess that's just a couple more things that only bother you at times. Most inconsistent.


Obama costs the whole country every morning that he wakes up breathing.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I consider what Apple and other such corporations are doing as morally wrong. Their decisions are not comparable to a woman making a very personal private decision to choose an abortion and the decision by corporate officers to "legally" bilk the government and ultimately the U S populace of tax money that would affect thousands of people. Many may disagree with me, many will agree.


You are very confusing. As you stated, the corporate decisions are not comparable to the abortion decision yet you compared them!

If you believe Apple is morally wrong; I'll assume you don't use Apple products and services nor own any investments in their products and services. No ipad, iphone, computer, monitor, itunes, video feeds, etc., for you I assume.

Otherwise, you are both morally and hopefully legally supporting a corporation of which you believe is ultimately taking advantage of you.

I don't believe many folks will agree with you as you claim.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are very confusing. As you stated, the corporate decisions are not comparable to the abortion decision yet you compared them!
> 
> If you believe Apple is morally wrong; I'll assume you don't use Apple products and services nor own any investments in their products and services. No ipad, iphone, computer, monitor, itunes, video feeds, etc., for you I assume.
> 
> ...


401K????


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Get use to it, she might be having a possible post hippie senior moment.


LOL! I'm just entering the convo and am most confused by her posts.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The difference in opinions here is whether one considers abortion murder.....I do not.
> 
> I can argue that this type of creative tax evasion creates situations where some in our society are deprived of basic necessities and ultimately harmed.


Tax "evasion" is illegal in both our countries, tax "avoidance" is completely legal and is available to individuals, partnerships and corporations so they pay the least amount of tax legally required.

We are fortunate that people who disagree with any law or government process are free to express their opinion and work within legal means to change those rules


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Get use to it, she might be having a possible post hippie senior moment.


What kind of response is this? Can you address the issue?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Bydie said:


> 401K????


You are right I have never spent any money on Apple.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

I think we had the same type of discussion back during the campaign when everyone was hooting about Romney's "off shore" investments. Turns out if you have any kind of investments, 401K, mutual funds, etc, they likely are in a tax shelter "off shore". 
BTW, I hear that Obummer only paid 18% in taxes last year. Hmmmmmmmmmm! Ironic, no???


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

A FLAT or FAIR tax, either, would be better than the current system. I'm guessing that NO ONE on this board has not taken advantage of legal tax deductions or "loop holes".


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You are right I have never spent any money on Apple.


Have you ever worked for or supported any corporation? Ever answered a text message or taken a phone call from someone using their iPhone? If you have, you have supported Apple. It is nearly impossible for you to suggest you don't support Apple or corporations for that matter.

We can safely assume that every corporation uses the U.S. tax code to legally pay only the taxes they are required to.

Take G.E., they paid zero in taxes in past years. I assume you've never supported any GE product, investment or service either?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever worked for or supported any corporation? Ever answered a text message or taken a phone call from someone using their iPhone? If you have, you have supported Apple. It is nearly impossible for you to suggest you don't support Apple or corporations for that matter.
> 
> We can safely assume that every corporation uses the U.S. tax code to legally pay only the taxes they are required to.
> 
> Take G.E., they paid zero in taxes in past years. I assume you've never supported any GE product, investment or service either?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And BTW, GE is subsidized by 'the government"


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Bydie said:


> A FLAT or FAIR tax, either, would be better than the current system. I'm guessing that NO ONE on this board has not taken advantage of legal tax deductions or "loop holes".


It wouldn't make sense for anyone not to take advantage of whatever the tax code offers - that's the whole point of having a tax code. If someone wants to give more money to the government, they can make a gift - nothing stopping them


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you ever worked for or supported any corporation? Ever answered a text message or taken a phone call from someone using their iPhone? If you have, you have supported Apple. It is nearly impossible for you to suggest you don't support Apple or corporations for that matter.
> 
> We can safely assume that every corporation uses the U.S. tax code to legally pay only the taxes they are required to.
> 
> Take G.E., they paid zero in taxes in past years. I assume you've never supported any GE product, investment or service either?


It is difficult to be 100% off the corporate grid. I do as much as I can.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And BTW, GE is subsidized by 'the government"


Yes! Actually, the CEO of GE is President Obama's job advisor; so GE = govt = GE.

How sick is that considering the success of GE and the dismal unemployment rate.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> It wouldn't make sense for anyone not to take advantage of whatever the tax code offers - that's the whole point of having a tax code. If someone wants to give more money to the government, they can make a gift - nothing stopping them


Agreed!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It is difficult to be 100% off the corporate grid. I do as much as I can.


Actually, if you're honest, it is 100% impossible to avoid the corporate grid.

Hospitals, employers, grocery stores, clothing, shelter, etc. - most are corps so you cannot do much without corporations.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Actually, if you're honest, it is 100% impossible to avoid the corporate grid.
> 
> Hospitals, employers, grocery stores, clothing, shelter, etc. - most are corps so you cannot do much without corporations.


I try to keep my life as simple as is possible living in a modern world. I am not a hermit living in a hut in the woods....although it sounds tempting. I do however avoid what is possible and keep myself busy addressing the issues and problems.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! Actually, the CEO of GE is President Obama's job advisor; so GE = govt = GE.
> 
> How sick is that considering the success of GE and the dismal unemployment rate.


I agree with you on that.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Get use to it, she might be having a possible post hippie senior moment.


Rude
Venial sin


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I believe an apple a day keeps the goverment away. ( taking in more money just to spend on usless programs)


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> If you believe Apple is morally wrong; I'll assume you don't use Apple products and services nor own any investments in their products and services. No ipad, iphone, computer, monitor, itunes, video feeds, etc., for you I assume.
> 
> Otherwise, you are both morally and hopefully legally supporting a corporation of which you believe is ultimately taking advantage of you.


True up to a point, but I assume you pay your taxes each year--does that make you a supporter of the IRS? Does using public roads/schools/libraries make you a supporter of the current Administration?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> You are right I have never spent any money on Apple.


Me neither. Or Amazon, after I found out what they are like.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> True up to a point, but I assume you pay your taxes each year--does that make you a supporter of the IRS? Does using public roads/schools/libraries make you a supporter of the current Administration?


Not quite the same, since Peacegoddess indicated that she felt Apple and similar corporations were immoral and she can choose to boycott those corporations. People can't choose to boycott paying their taxes and public services are primarily paid by taxes


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Not quite the same, since Peacegoddess indicated that she felt Apple and similar corporations were immoral and she can choose to boycott those corporations. People can't choose to boycott paying their taxes and public services are primarily paid by taxes


Of course people can refuse to pay their taxes. It's a form of non-violent protest that goes way back. The ancient Egyptian, Roman, and Spanish governments all discovered the hard way that folks won't always part with their money when they really object to something, and in the American colonies England's hated tea tax and people's refusal to pay it was one factor that led to the American Revolution.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course people can refuse to pay their taxes. It's a form of non-violent protest that goes way back. The ancient Egyptian, Roman, and Spanish governments all discovered the hard way that folks won't always part with their money when they really object to something, and in our own country England's hated tea tax and people's refusal to pay it led in part to the American Revolution.


It is more than a protest - it is a criminal offense. Of course people can choose to break the law and if they do so, they should be prepared to pay the consequences


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Well Stated. But I don't think anyone's wishing for the VI.



Bydie said:


> Obama costs the whole country every morning that he wakes up breathing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> It is more than a protest - it is a criminal offense. Of course people can choose to break the law and if they do so, they should be prepared to pay the consequences


I agree completely--tax resisters frequently do go to jail...but they generally are aware of the risk, and many even welcome the added publicity to their cause.

Makes me wonder, as the subject of abortion was touched on, why the anti-abortionists pay THEIR taxes each year. Government money does help support clinics that perform abortions--at least they seem to think so.

And what does Planned Parenthood do with this money? The spokespeople for Big Abortion will tell you that theres no way for public money to go toward abortion, but this is an outright lie. We know that money is fungible; the rent, the staff, the utilities  all of which support abortion procedures, no matter how indirectly  are propped up with our money. Whether we want to or not, were all forced to fund the taking of innocent human lives for profit. (The Daily Caller 3/25/13)

For those who believe abortion is murder, wouldn't it be truly moral not to file with the Feds each year? Aren't you promoting abortion by doing so? What's a little jail time when innocent human life is at stake?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Obama costs the whole country every morning that he wakes up breathing.


More of that scary talk...seems like lukelucy has a twin.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

That's what I always tell my lib friends when they think taxes are not a problem. Just send them a check for what you think is your fair share. I always exceed mine in view of the fact that I disapprove of how my money is being wasted.



west coast kitty said:


> It wouldn't make sense for anyone not to take advantage of whatever the tax code offers - that's the whole point of having a tax code. If someone wants to give more money to the government, they can make a gift - nothing stopping them


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And didn't they take a large part of their operation to China after o gave them that big grant of OUR money? And then to be rewarded with that advisorship. Thanks o.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes! Actually, the CEO of GE is President Obama's job advisor; so GE = govt = GE.
> 
> How sick is that considering the success of GE and the dismal unemployment rate.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I have to come back on here - just to say, "Good job, team!"


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Not quite the same, since Peacegoddess indicated that she felt Apple and similar corporations were immoral and she can choose to boycott those corporations. People can't choose to boycott paying their taxes and public services are primarily paid by taxes


Check out the Tax Resisters league. It is possible as a protest to not pay the % that is designated for whatever you are against. Of course the IRS gets you one way or the other. I kept aside a percentage of my taxes that went to the military and donated it to 
a charity. Then the IRS began a process to garnish my pay checks. I sent them the money in the form of a huge check printed up as an American flag with a peace symbol on it. They cashed it. So you may not be able to get away from the IRS totally, but you can make a statement none the less.

Also, utilizing the library etc is a way of supporting public services, as their % of city and county tax revenue is determined by amount of public use. So if you are not in favor of something, stop utilizing it.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> More of that scary talk...seems like lukelucy has a twin.


 :lol:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Then the IRS began a process to garnish my pay checks. I sent them the money in the form of a huge check printed up as an American flag with a peace symbol on it. They cashed it.


I remember when you mentioned that--hilarious!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

I found this to be of interest:

"In addition to new polls showing that President Obama's approval rating remains above 50 percent after these stories first surfaced, a Washington Post/ABC survey suggests that Republicans are suffering from a focus deficit.

According to the poll, just 33 percent of Americans believe congressional Republicans are mainly concentrating on matters that are personally important to them, while 60 percent say they arent.

By comparison, 51 percent say Obama is mainly focusing on things important to them, versus 44 percent who disagree -- matching his approval rating in the poll

And 43 percent of respondents think congressional Democrats are concentrating on matters of importance, compared with 50 percent who say they're not.

Bottom line: The public believes that Obama and the Democrats are focusing more on the issues they care about than Republicans are."


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> And didn't they take a large part of their operation to China after o gave them that big grant of OUR money? And then to be rewarded with that advisorship. Thanks o.


GE contributed to both presidential candidates, it's called hedging your bets. As I agreed with an earlier post it is a sickening partnership.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> True up to a point, but I assume you pay your taxes each year--does that make you a supporter of the IRS? Does using public roads/schools/libraries make you a supporter of the current Administration?


We were discussing what PeaceGoddess believes; not me.

You assumed correctly; I do pay my taxes each year as legally required to do so; nothing to do with my moral beliefs and all to do with legality.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I remember when you mentioned that--hilarious!


It took a really long time for the IRS to submit the check to the savings and loan association. It was over two months. I think they were trying to figure out how to do it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

It's true--up until now the GOP has had one goal and one goal only: to drive Obama out of office. I think they're beginning to wise up, though--those poll results are pretty shocking.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

west coast kitty said:


> Not quite the same, since Peacegoddess indicated that she felt Apple and similar corporations were immoral and she can choose to boycott those corporations. People can't choose to boycott paying their taxes and public services are primarily paid by taxes


So very correct, West Coast Kitty. Nice to meet you on this side of the border!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> We were discussing what PeaceGoddess believes; not me.
> 
> You assumed correctly; I do pay my taxes each year as legally required to do so; nothing to do with my moral beliefs and all to do with legality.


I believe, like many famous and not famous, people that civil disobedience is a moral stance and is often illegal. I will give you names if interested.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> It took a really long time for the IRS to submit the check to the savings and loan association. It was over two months. I think they were trying to figure out how to do it.


Given what we now know about the IRS I can almost see them gathered around the check-processing machine trying to run it through.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

:thumbup:


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Check out the Tax Resisters league. It is possible as a protest to not pay the % that is designated for whatever you are against. Of course the IRS gets you one way or the other. I kept aside a percentage of my taxes that went to the military and donated it to
> a charity. Then the IRS began a process to garnish my pay checks. I sent them the money in the form of a huge check printed up as an American flag with a peace symbol on it. They cashed it. So you may not be able to get away from the IRS totally, but you can make a statement none the less.
> 
> Also, utilizing the library etc is a way of supporting public services, as their % of city and county tax revenue is determined by amount of public use. So if you are not in favor of something, stop utilizing it.


I hope you never have an immediate need of the military or National Guard since you protested sending a portion of your taxes to support the military as is your LEGAL obligation.

Leave the USA immediately since EVERY military member fought and fights for your right to live in the USA AND fought for your right to protest same.

Since you have already stated you protest against the things you don't wish to support; leave the USA so you don't continue to support those things and the country you don't believe in.

God help the country that 'takes you in.'


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope you never have an immediate of the military or National Guard since you protested sending a portion of your taxes to support the military as is your LEGAL obligation.
> 
> Leave the USA immediately since EVERY military member fought and fights for your right to live in the USA AND fought for your right to protest same.
> 
> ...


But she has a right to protest whatever she chooses and that is what she chose.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> GE contributed to both presidential candidates, it's called hedging your bets. As I agreed with an earlier post it is a sickening partnership.


Equally? Better check your facts while you pack.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> I found this to be of interest:
> 
> "In addition to new polls showing that President Obama's approval rating remains above 50 percent after these stories first surfaced, a Washington Post/ABC survey suggests that Republicans are suffering from a focus deficit.
> 
> ...


Who conducted this poll? According to Rasmussen, he is down below 50%, and Americans trust the GOP on ethics.....
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

Please put your source up, because we have conflicting statistics.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

A 'Nonviolent Army of Love' Rises in North Carolina to Face Down Rightwing's Assault on Progress
Movement gathers around 'Moral Monday' protests aimed at fighting off GOP takeover

- Lauren McCauley, staff writer
"Were going to continue our acts of civil disobedience because the General Assembly has made a cruel attack on the most vulnerable people in this state, declared Rev. William J. Barber II, president of the North Carolina chapter of the NAACP.


Hundreds rally outside the North Carolina General Assembly building for 'Moral Mondays.' (Photo: @NCStudentPower / Twitter)
A crowd of hundreds assembled outside the state's General Assembly building in Raleigh on Monday evening in a massive act of civil disobediencethe fourth consecutive week of demonstrations dubbed 'Moral Mondays,' spearheaded by the civil rights group.

"What started with tens of supporters and 17 arrests," reports the Associated Press, "has attracted hundreds of people of different age groups, races and professions to protest the policies of the General Assembly."

The number of those being arrested has grown each week as well, with 57 protesters arrested during Monday's action bringing the total number to 153.

Individuals are risking arrest to draw attention to the policies of GOP Governor Pat McCrory and the conservative-run General Assemblyincluding cuts to social programs, education reforms, a rejection of federal funding to expand Medicaid coverage, and changes to voting lawswhich protesters call "an assault" on the state's poor and unemployed.

In response, the NAACP has amassed, what Barber refers to as, a growing "nonviolent volunteer army of love" to stand up against the "escalating Republican assault," writes local journalist, Bob Geary.

"We hope that, through civil disobedience, they will change, they will repent, they will turn around," Barber said, of the state's Republican majority. "But if they don't, we will assure that what they do will not be done in the dark."

"The people getting arrested in waves at the General Assembly are carrying a message from many thousands of North Carolinians," said an editorial Charlotte Observer. "They represent not only those who need government services, but those who believe the legislature is breaking the traditions and reversing the gains of a great and enlightened state."

"In the peoples house, such messengers ought not be arrested," it continues. "They should be heard and heeded."

According to Barber, who spoke with BET, the NAACP plans to escalate the actions in the coming weeks and have outlined a 25-county tour to raise awareness of the discriminatory policies.

We have to continue this, Barber said. This is a movement, not just a one-day event. Were going to work to guarantee that this state knows how regressive this legislature is. That way, when 2014 comes, the people of this state can vote in an appropriate way.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It took a really long time for the IRS to submit the check to the savings and loan association. It was over two months. I think they were trying to figure out how to do it.


Wow, you don't understand why it took so long?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe, like many famous and not famous, people that civil disobedience is a moral stance and is often illegal. I will give you names if interested.


I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in criminals and their activities.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Who conducted this poll? According to Rasmussen, he is down below 50%, and Americans trust the GOP on ethics.....
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/
> 
> Please put your source up, because we have conflicting statistics.


http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/21/18400647-the-gops-focus-deficit?lite


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I know of no one who wants o out of office with the VI lurking. He's the lesser of two evils.



susanmos2000 said:


> It's true--up until now the GOP has had one goal and one goal only: to drive Obama out of office. I think they're beginning to wise up, though--those poll results are pretty shocking.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> But she has a right to protest whatever she chooses and that is what she chose.


Never said otherwise. If you understood my message, obviously you did not, she ONLY has the right to protest BECAUSE of the US military that granted her that very right.

Peacegoddess does not support the US military nor her country so following her own admissions and moral beliefs, she needs to live NOT in the USA.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hope you never have an immediate of the military or National Guard since you protested sending a portion of your taxes to support the military as is your LEGAL obligation.
> 
> Leave the USA immediately since EVERY military member fought and fights for your right to live in the USA AND fought for your right to protest same.
> 
> ...


You have very little understanding of protest. As I have stated before the past many wars the military has fought were not in defense of free speech or any other part of the Constitution. The Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars are wars based on desire for control of land and resources in those countries. Now I realize you don't agree, but I am not alone in my opinion, and many who share my opinion are veterans of each of these wars.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in criminals and their activities.


I thought you might be curious and want to reach for information outside of your comfort zone.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You have very little understanding of protest. As I have stated before the past many wars the military has fought were not in defense of free speech or any other part of the Constitution. The Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars are wars based on desire for control of land and resources in those countries. Now I realize you don't agree, but I am not alone in my opinion, and many who share my opinion are veterans of each of these wars.


You have little to no understanding of USA history, the military, or the economy. YOU stated you don't support what you don't agree with if you can avoid such support. Well, you can leave the country you apologize for and don't support morally nor legally.

You do not support the USA nor the USA military. So leavel I've not mentioned the reasons for wars nor did you until this recent post. You cannot justify your beliefs; I'm not surprised.

Most un-educated, apologetic Americans are this way.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Equally? Better check your facts while you pack.


General Electric: All Recipients
Among Federal Candidates, 2012 Cycle
Total: $2,610,615

Source of Funds:	
Party Split:

Individuals PACs Dems Repubs
Select Cycle:

Sort by:

Filter by State:

Chamber/Party:

Page: 1 2 3 4 5
Name	Office	Total Contributions
Romney, Mitt (R) Pres	$332,875
Obama, Barack (D) Pres	$139,386

I only posted the presidential candidates. This is from a 5 page report.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have little to no understanding of USA history, the military, or the economy. YOU stated you don't support what you don't agree with if you can avoid such support. Well, you can leave the country you apologize for and don't support morally nor legally.
> 
> You do not support the USA nor the USA military. So leavel I've not mentioned the reasons for wars nor did you until this recent post. You cannot justify your beliefs; I'm not surprised.
> 
> Most un-educated, apologetic Americans are this way.


People who are opposed to war have every right to their beliefs. Peacegoddess is definitely not uneducated and quite possibly is very well versed in history. You don't know her and you're making a big leap from what you do know to your accusations. .


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Never said otherwise. If you understood my message, obviously you did not, she ONLY has the right to protest BECAUSE of the US military that granted her that very right.
> 
> Not really.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Wow, you don't understand why it took so long?


Please tell me what you think.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> You have very little understanding of protest. As I have stated before the past many wars the military has fought were not in defense of free speech or any other part of the Constitution. The Korean, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan wars are wars based on desire for control of land and resources in those countries. Now I realize you don't agree, but I am not alone in my opinion, and many who share my opinion are veterans of each of these wars.


Actually, I agree with you. These wars were not fought for freedom and were more of a military action rather than a "war".


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have little to no understanding of USA history, the military, or the economy. YOU stated you don't support what you don't agree with if you can avoid such support. Well, you can leave the country you apologize for and don't support morally nor legally.
> 
> You do not support the USA nor the USA military. So leavel I've not mentioned the reasons for wars nor did you until this recent post. You cannot justify your beliefs; I'm not surprised.
> 
> Most un-educated, apologetic Americans are this way.


Oh how funny - I was about to post the same thing about you!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Oh how funny - I was about to post the same thing about you!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/21/18400647-the-gops-focus-deficit?lite


Read the poll. Found this interesting regarding the demographics of those polled.
33% Dem
22% Repub
38% Undecided
7% or whatever/n.o

So according to these statistics, the polls was not balanced or fair and balanced


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Well, well, well. Obozo's IRS STOOGE Lois Lerner has pleaded....NO! NOT the 5th? Let's see....who does that? Ummm....Gangsters like Capone, Luciano and oh yeah, Eric HOLDER!!!! You're in good company there LOIS! Congratulations, you sweetheart you!

BTW, did you know that 1/3 of ALL the BIPARTISAN sub-committees in Congress are involved in investigating wrong doing by Obozo and his Chicago hoodlum cronies? Of course, we all know that he had NOTHING to do with any of it and KNOWS nothing about it, right?????? I think we should start calling him KnowNoBozo.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I thought you might be curious and want to reach for information outside of your comfort zone.


I'm most curious about everything and have experienced much. However, while I remain fully capable and willing to speak to criminals and learn from them, you haven't piqued my interest in hearing about your criminal pursuits and weaknesses.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> knitpresentgifts said:
> 
> 
> > Never said otherwise. If you understood my message, obviously you did not, she ONLY has the right to protest BECAUSE of the US military that granted her that very right.
> ...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You have little to no understanding of USA history, the military, or the economy. YOU stated you don't support what you don't agree with if you can avoid such support. Well, you can leave the country you apologize for and don't support morally nor legally.
> 
> You do not support the USA nor the USA military. So leavel I've not mentioned the reasons for wars nor did you until this recent post. You cannot justify your beliefs; I'm not surprised.
> 
> Most un-educated, apologetic Americans are this way.


Your knee jerk reaction of thinking I am uneducated and unaware of history is a feeble argument. The military does not grant rights. The constitution and amendments grant rights. As I said, civil disobedience has a proud place in history. Without civil disobedience the Constitution might not have been written. Study your history.....unless you continue to not be interested in what criminals do.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Please tell me what you think.


It takes a little time to be able to garnish a person's wages. The IRS doesn't work in a vacuum nor all that efficiently. You must know that.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

:XD:  

I have to learn to use these: funny Bydie!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It takes a little time to be able to garnish a persons wages. The IRS doesn't work in a vacuum nor all that efficiently. You must know that.


Yes, and it gives you a real warm and cozy feeling knowing that those same dunderheads are going to be in charge of your health care, right? :thumbup:


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD:
> 
> I have to learn to use these: funny Bydie!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: You done good! :thumbup:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I couldn't care less. I'm not interested in criminals and their activities.


I have never been prosecuted....therefore I am not a criminal.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Your knee jerk reaction of thinking I am uneducated and unaware of history is a feeble argument. The military does not grant rights. The constitution and amendments grant rights. As I said, civil disobedience has a proud place in history. Without civil disobedience the Constitution might not have been written. Study your history.....unless you continue to not be interested in what criminals do.


Don't waste too much of your time on this gang of bullies. They have a penchant for faulty reasoning and think they're guided by religion. The real SE is trying to depose the interim one.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

"When logic fails, resort to name calling".


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Your knee jerk reaction of thinking I am uneducated and unaware of history is a feeble argument. The military does not grant rights. The constitution and amendments grant rights. As I said, civil disobedience has a proud place in history. Without civil disobedience the Constitution might not have been written. Study your history.....unless you continue to not be interested in what criminals do.


I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth; that is MY freedom of speech on which you are trampling. I didn't post you were un-educated; re-read my post.

I assumed you knew where your rights come from and it didn't need to be stated. However, had Americans not fight for YOUR rights, you would NOT have the right to protest your beliefs.

The US military is not criminal and defends all Americans, you included.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Yes, and it gives you a real warm and cozy feeling knowing that those same dunderheads are going to be in charge of your health care, right? :thumbup:


You betcha! God help us.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: You done good! :thumbup:


Thank you! I like your avatar and must learn to change the line of text following my ID. I'm assuming you do support the military, correct?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth; that is MY freedom of speech on which you are trampling. I didn't post you were un-educated; re-read my post.
> 
> I assumed you knew where your rights come from and it didn't need to be stated. However, had Americans not fight for YOUR rights, you would NOT have the right to protest your beliefs.
> 
> The US military is not criminal and defends all Americans, you included.


Reread your posts.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I have never been prosecuted....therefore I am not a criminal.


Innocent until proven guilty is another Right you received along with your American citizenship.

Yet, garnishing your wages _ is _ a legal form of punishment - so I guess you were "guilty" as charged .... cha ching!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Don't waste too much of your time on this gang of bullies. They have a penchant for faulty reasoning and think they're guided by religion. The real SE is trying to depose the interim one.


Huh? Weird post ....


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Read the poll. Found this interesting regarding the demographics of those polled.
> 33% Dem
> 22% Repub
> 38% Undecided
> ...


And according to the news a few minutes ago 60% think Obama bungled Benghazi

Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you! I like your avatar and must learn to change the line of text following my ID. I'm assuming you do support the military, correct?


Absolutely support the military though I'm concerned about Bozo's attack on, and current decimation of it and especially his disregard for our veterans. He digusts me!

To change your text following your ID, go to your profile and where it says "signature" write whatever you want. :O)


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I do not appreciate you putting words in my mouth; that is MY freedom of speech on which you are trampling. I didn't post you were un-educated; re-read my post.
> 
> I assumed you knew where your rights come from and it didn't need to be stated. However, had Americans not fight for YOUR rights, you would NOT have the right to protest your beliefs.
> 
> The US military is not criminal and defends all Americans, you included.


There are many criminal acts committed by members of the military. Rape, sexual harassment, mass killing of villagers in Vietnam...and others. And no not all military people are criminals, I grew up in the military. Again you might want to read what Veterans against War say about their experiences.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Reread your posts.


Good


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> And according to the news a few minutes ago 60% think Obama bungled Benghazi
> 
> Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment


<Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment>

SO glad I have my Depends on. Snort!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> There are many criminal acts committed by members of the military. Rape, sexual harassment, mass killing of villagers in Vietnam...and others. And no not all military people are criminals, I grew up in the military. Again you might want to read what Veterans against War say about their experiences.


You mean that liar John Kerry?????


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Absolutely support the military though I'm concerned about Bozo's attack on, and current decimation of it and especially his disregard for our veterans. He digusts me!
> 
> To change your text following your ID, go to your profile and where it says "signature" write whatever you want. :O)


Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.

My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> There are many criminal acts committed by members of the military. Rape, sexual harassment, mass killing of villagers in Vietnam...and others. And no not all military people are criminals, I grew up in the military. Again you might want to read what Veterans against War say about their experiences.


You should seek counsel since you are so angry with the United States military and 'grew up' in the military. Veterans would be appalled to hear what you think of them after they fought for your freedoms. I know first hand. Again, leave the USA and go where you believe it is better and where you can support and speak words of gratitude for your country and its beliefs instead of against it.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No disgust doesn't come close to how disrespectful he is. There may not be any word to describe my outrage for his behaviour.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Thank you. I agree, President Obama is a menace not only to the military but also to all citizens and America.
> 
> My heart bleeds for what happened to those in Benghazi under his watch, his lack of action and justice and how our veterans are treated. Disgust seems to be an appropriate word!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You should seek counsel since you are so angry with the United States military and 'grew up' in the military. Veterans would be appalled to hear what you think of them after they fought for your freedoms. I know first hand. Again, leave the USA and go where you believe it is better and where you can support and speak words of gratitude for your country and its beliefs instead of against it.


For your edification
Our Mission
Welcome to Veterans For Peace

Veterans For Peace is a global organization of Military Veterans and allies whose collective efforts are to build a culture of peace by using our experiences and lifting our voices. We inform the public of the true causes of war and the enormous costs of wars, with an obligation to heal the wounds of wars. Our network is comprised of over 140 chapters worldwide whose work includes: educating the public, advocating for a dismantling of the war economy, providing services that assist veterans and victims of war, and most significantly, working to end all wars.

Statement of Purpose

We, having dutifully served our nation, do hereby affirm our greater responsibility to serve the cause of world peace. To this end we will work, with others

To increase public awareness of the costs of war
To restrain our government from intervening, overtly and covertly, in the internal affairs of other nations
To end the arms race and to reduce and eventually eliminate nuclear weapons
To seek justice for veterans and victims of war
To abolish war as an instrument of national policy.
To achieve these goals, members of Veterans For Peace pledge to use non-violent means and to maintain an organization that is both democratic and open with the understanding that all members are trusted to act in the best interests of the group for the larger purpose of world peace.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Thank you for posting that, Peace. It is worth reading.

No one knows the horrors and costs of war more than the military. Unfortunately, until all evil men are gone from the face of the earth, it is merely a pipe dream that if heeded will only cause good and righteous men to become slaves.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?


You mean, kinda like after Hurricane Sandy?????


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Just read about The Who's Who of Veterans For Peace.

http://www.veteransforpeace.org/who-we-are/member-highlights/

Scroll down, it only gets better and better. No sadder and sadder


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Just read about The Who's Who of Veterans For Peace.
> 
> http://www.veteransforpeace.org/who-we-are/member-highlights/
> 
> Scroll down, it only gets better and better. No sadder and sadder


Hey! It's a Hippy Reunion!!!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Just read about The Who's Who of Veterans For Peace.
> 
> http://www.veteransforpeace.org/who-we-are/member-highlights/
> 
> Scroll down, it only gets better and better. No sadder and sadder


What is your point?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I especially like the ones about Veterans for Palestine, Cuban trips, and the hunger strikes. I never understood the purpose of a hunger strike, other than to lose weight. You want to purposely starve yourself, go for it. Sounds like suicide to me, but I wouldn't want to be 'judgmental'.

Anyone a gardener? Have a need to toss flowers in the air, flowers in my hair, flowers everywhere................sounds like a song to me , snort


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hey! It's a Hippy Reunion!!!


Wow, such disrespect. Aren't these the same folks who fought and died to defend your freedom?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't understand the starving strike either. It is just self infliction. Only you feel the pain. Kinda crazy if you ask me.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

RUKnitting said:


> That's what I always tell my lib friends when they think taxes are not a problem. Just send them a check for what you think is your fair share. I always exceed mine in view of the fact that I disapprove of how my money is being wasted.


Do you get an answer from your friends? My friends and family to the left end up agreeing that we prefer to choose which charities and non-profits we want to contribute to. I don't know of anyone that has ever made a gift to the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency)


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I especially like the ones about Veterans for Palestine, Cuban trips, and the hunger strikes. I never understood the purpose of a hunger strike, other than to lose weight. You want to purposely starve yourself, go for it. Sounds like suicide to me, but I wouldn't want to be 'judgmental'.
> 
> Anyone a gardener? Have a need to toss flowers in the air, flowers in my hair, flowers everywhere................sounds like a song to me , snort


Weird post


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Just read that my idol, Mia Love is making another run for Congress. Hip Hip Hurray!!!!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't understand the starving strike either. It is just self infliction. Only you feel the pain. Kinda crazy if you ask me.


I wish they'd take it a bit more seriously at GITMO. It would save us a bunch of tax dollars.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I love Mia.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh, Obama isn't going to Oklahoma because he doesn't want to be a distraction. I think I have heard that thinking before............wait for it...............Isn't that why President Bush only did a flyover after Katrina? He didn't want to add to the drama and have first responders diverted from their work to provide for his security. Wasn't he slammed in the press for not putting boots on the ground? Wonder if Obama will get the same scrutiny?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Weird post


The whole thread has taken on a weird tone since two new *cough* members jumped in. Nothing to do but sit back and wait, I suppose. Piranhas have been know to strip each other to the bones, particularly when they come in pairs. Should be interesting.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I love Mia.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Me too!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Bydie said:


> I wish they'd take it a bit more seriously at GITMO. It would save us a bunch of tax dollars.


Oh my, can't breathe because I am laughing so hard, that is too funny


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh, Obama isn't going to Oklahoma because he doesn't want to be a distraction. I think I have heard that thinking before............wait for it...............Isn't that why President Bush only did a flyover after Katrina? He didn't want to add to the drama and have first responders diverted from their work to provide for his security. Wasn't he slammed in the press for not putting boots on the ground? Wonder if Obama will get the same scrutiny?


Hey, the election is over! No need to go and kiss up!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh my, can't breathe because I am laughing so hard, that is too funny


Turn about is fair play! :O)


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> What is your point?


Consider the source; it's the recently deposed empress. She still doesn't have a clue, just the same old chatter. It's the same old gang of stooges who love war. It's their meat and potatoes. They are living large on their military pensions. Maybe they will do everyone a favor and move to Costa Rica like so many of their lunatic fringe have done. They can play soldier down in the jungle.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't understand the starving strike either. It is just self infliction. Only you feel the pain. Kinda crazy if you ask me.


Another form of protest used by men and women to overcome oppression. Many of them agitated and worked both outside and within the system for rights we as women enjoy today. Anyone know Alice Paul?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Hey, the election is over! No need to go and kiss up!


Yes, did you hear that off2knit. Bydie knows the score and your side lost which is no surprise since they are all a bunch of losers. Did you get kicked off Ravelry? Who is the new queen on Denim and Pearls or are the two of you girls going to share the throne? Should be fun watching you reestablish your little queendom.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Consider the source; it's the recently deposed empress. She still doesn't have a clue, just the same old chatter. It's the same old gang of stooges who love war. It's their meat and potatoes. They are living large on their military pensions. Maybe they will do everyone a favor and move to Costa Rica like so many of their lunatic fringe have done. They can play soldier down in the jungle.


True, but they'd have to put into titanium carriers before being loaded on the barge--otherwise they'd gnaw through the hull.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe, like many famous and not famous, people that civil disobedience is a moral stance and is often illegal. I will give you names if interested.


Whether I agree with the cause or not, I respect civil disobedience or protest movements when they are conducted in a non-harmful manner that does not create the potential to hurt people, damage public or private property and does not incite people to violence. Unfortunately, what some have called civil disobedience has result in death or injury to people and damage to property and that I found totally unacceptable


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Another form of protest used by men and women to overcome oppression. Many of them agitated and worked both outside and within the system for rights we as women enjoy today. Anyone know Alice Paul?


It is as stupid as cutting yourself. I can't feel their pain. Who has starved for me? No I don't know Alice Paul. Doesn't make sense. I would never ask someone to starve themselve for me. It is like sucide is against the law. Who is going to arrest you after you are dead? No sense.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Whether I agree with the cause or not, I respect civil disobedience or protest movements when they are conducted in a non-harmful manner that does not create the potential to hurt people, damage public or private property and does not incite people to violence.


You're right, nothing put civil rights more into the spotlight than watching peacefully demonstrating African-Americans being set upon by dogs, knocked down by fire hoses, and so on. It can be very effective.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.

Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is as stupid as cutting yourself. I can't feel their pain. Who has starved for me? No I don't know Alice Paul. Doesn't make sense. I would never ask someone to starve themselve for me. It is like sucide is against the law. Who is going to arrest you after you are dead? No sense.


Of course it makes sense under certain circumstances. Women who fought for the right to vote had very few options available to them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.
> 
> Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


Is it Bydie or Byrdie? Personally I prefer the latter.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course it makes sense under certain circumstances. Women who fought for the right to vote had very few options available to them.


No it doesn't.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Oh dear, the mean girls are back. Notice that they get so nasty, ie: gnawing through hulls..... typical M.O.'s. Guess they can't defend Obama, so they attack.
> 
> Cheeky didn't even get your point Byrdie, that Obama wasn't going to a Republican state because he didn't need the votes. I guess she still needs remedial classes to finalize her B.S. degree.


REPEAT- when logic fails, resort to name calling!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> No it doesn't.


If it has some chance of success and hurts no one but the protester then it's a reasonable choice. Some people are willing to risk their lives for what they believe in--Ghandi was one of them.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> REPEAT- when logic fails, resort to name calling!


You're chanting your own mantra, Byrdie.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> For your edification
> Our Mission
> Welcome to Veterans For Peace
> 
> ...


Please explain to me the true cause of the war and why the US military defended itself when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor?

Explain to me why America was attacked in New York on Sept 11th, how the US could have avoided going to war for a peaceful outcome, and who is to blame for the military having to defend the USA?

Explain why the Boston Marathon attack happened who was responsible for it happening and what your group felt was the proper way to apprehend those responsible and the punishment for same? Should the surviving bomber have received Miranda rights and should he be tried in a military tribunal or Federal Criminal Court?

I believe your group does not wish to be part of the United Nations as that entity takes part in the internal affairs and decisions of other nations, correct?

Please tell me how those killed and attacked received justice as the victims of the violence against Americans in Benghazi especially after Hillary and President Obama swept the murders under the rug and Hillary said, "What does it matter"?

Does your group believe Obama is supportive of your groups' beliefs? I.E. sending in drones when trying to end or avoid war?

I could go on and on but won't. Please enlighten the public on how your group is effective or at best, has had an impact or success in furthering their mission as compared to the military structure you despise.

Do you believe a world can be at peace without war?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Of course it makes sense under certain circumstances. Women who fought for the right to vote had very few options available to them.


under Wilson a democrat.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is as stupid as cutting yourself. I can't feel their pain. Who has starved for me? No I don't know Alice Paul. Doesn't make sense. I would never ask someone to starve themselve for me. It is like sucide is against the law. Who is going to arrest you after you are dead? No sense.


People who cut themselves are ill. People who go on a hunger strike are doing it to bring attention to something that they believe is very wrong or to emphasize how they feel about an issue. You don't ask anyone to starve themselves for you. Those people do it for a cause. Anyone who is a Christian should understand the act of suffering. Think about it.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, nothing put civil rights more into the spotlight than watching peacefully demonstrating African-Americans being set upon by dogs, knocked down by fire hoses, and so on. It can be very effective.


under johnson a democrat


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Did anyone find it strange that we had photos of Obama talking to his cabinet regarding Oklahoma (rightly so), but no photos of him working on Benghazi?


Now that you mention it, no. There is no future election for him so no need to push anything off the radar screen.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you believe a world can be at peace without war?


At this point, no (unfortunately). But I respect people who are searching for other ways to resolve international conflicts.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bydie said:


> under Wilson a democrat.


You must be joking. The Seneca Falls Convention of 1848 was the official beginning the the struggle for women's suffrage. Took some seventy years for women to win the right to vote, and in that time we had both Republican and Democratic Presidents.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is as stupid as cutting yourself. I can't feel their pain. Who has starved for me? No I don't know Alice Paul. Doesn't make sense. I would never ask someone to starve themselve for me. It is like sucide is against the law. Who is going to arrest you after you are dead? No sense.


Do you vote? Many women used civil disobedience to achieve votes for women. Alice Paul was one. Remarkable stories of these women is available for reading.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Some people are willing to risk their lives for what they believe in--Ghandi was one of them.


EVERY one of the service members in the US military are willing to risk his life for what they believe in and do it for all Americans.

Perhaps you can explain that to the "Peace" goddess.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EVERY one of the service members in the US military are willing to risk his life for what they believe in and do it for all Americans.
> 
> Perhaps you can explain that to the "Peace" goddess.


Please explain how fighting a war in Iraq protected freedoms for Americans. What was the purpose of that war?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> People who cut themselves are ill. People who go on a hunger strike are doing it to bring attention to something that they believe is very wrong or to emphasize how they feel about an issue. You don't ask anyone to starve themselves for you. Those people do it for a cause. Anyone who is a Christian should understand the act of suffering. Think about it.


So you think if we starve ourselves so that we understand the act of suffering is a sign of a healthy mind? People are starving and suffering not by choice. What good are you to the world if you purposely starve yourself and die? If their cause/goal is not accomplished do they stop eating and then die? Or do they give in, eat and admit defeat?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you vote? Many women used civil disobedience to achieve votes for women. Alice Paul was one. Remarkable stories of these women is available for reading.


I know about her. It's surprising that one woman could play such a central role in both the British and the American suffrage movement. It's nice too that she lived until 1977 and was able to see so many changes for the better.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So you think if we starve ourselves so that we understand the act of suffering is a sign of a healthy mind? People are starving and suffering not by choice. What good are you to the world if you purposely starve yourself and die? If their cause/goal is not accomplished do they stop eating and then die? Or do they give in, eat and admit defeat?


I'm sure the women who went on hunger strikes in the early 20th century had healthy minds--unlike the men in power, who told them they were crazy for wanting to vote.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree wholeheartedly with peacegoddess. There are more on the other side than you imagine.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You are very confusing. As you stated, the corporate decisions are not comparable to the abortion decision yet you compared them!
> 
> If you believe Apple is morally wrong; I'll assume you don't use Apple products and services nor own any investments in their products and services. No ipad, iphone, computer, monitor, itunes, video feeds, etc., for you I assume.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Haven't we met before?



knitpresentgifts said:


> LOL! I'm just entering the convo and am most confused by her posts.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Anyone heard these words lately? I know nothing.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Does this sound familar? I know nothing.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anyone heard these words lately? I know nothing.


Oh I know the answer to that one, Also every person working under the President.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Haven't we met before?


Probably. As someone commented elsewhere we now have a couple of retreads on our hands. I admit I'm disappointed--after just a couple of spins around the block they seem ready to blow their sidewalls.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh I know the answer to that one, Also every person working under the President.


Yay Yarnie you win the prize! :thumbup:


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

damemary said:


> I agree wholeheartedly with peacegoddess. There are more on the other side than you imagine.


I believe you are mistaken - most people believe the tax code should be followed - it would be foolish for them to believe that a person or corporation would voluntarily pay more tax than legally required.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country, maybe we should refer to the Obama Administration as "Hogan's Heroes". If you think about it, the similarities are frightening.

Another thought, why do libs live in the past? What is so endearing about the 1950's and 60's? Why can't they give us examples of how starving yourself helps today? I think it is called anorexia. 

Oh and it looks like they are trying to start a book club, is it because they have nothing new to say?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rasmussen is in a right-wing Tea Party class by itself. The 'statistics' are always conflicting....and I'm sure you know it. You're not winning any points, but that isn't your goal. You just like to hear yourselves talk.



off2knit said:


> Who conducted this poll? According to Rasmussen, he is down below 50%, and Americans trust the GOP on ethics.....
> http://www.rasmussenreports.com/
> 
> Please put your source up, because we have conflicting statistics.


----------



## jannetie (May 30, 2012)

Janeway said:


> I just find it strange that you lefties don't want anyone to know your heritage so you must be ashamed. Never said you were not Americans!
> 
> You are going in the wrong direction as usual!


Ah, but left IS the right direction..


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> EVERY one of the service members in the US military are willing to risk his life for what they believe in and do it for all Americans.
> 
> Perhaps you can explain that to the "Peace" goddess.


Many young men and women I speak to that are considering enlisting in the military do it because they think they will get an education paid for and believe their job prospects are dim (which is true). Few mention protecting America or freedom. I talk to numerous teens and young adults in my guise of Peacegoddess.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What a rude response, knit! I am appalled by your name-calling. And, as I've said before, there are many citizens who thoroughly disagree with you....but they use facts to base their opinions.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You have little to no understanding of USA history, the military, or the economy. YOU stated you don't support what you don't agree with if you can avoid such support. Well, you can leave the country you apologize for and don't support morally nor legally.
> 
> You do not support the USA nor the USA military. So leavel I've not mentioned the reasons for wars nor did you until this recent post. You cannot justify your beliefs; I'm not surprised.
> 
> Most un-educated, apologetic Americans are this way.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh peace! If only they were looking for facts.



peacegoddess said:


> General Electric: All Recipients
> Among Federal Candidates, 2012 Cycle
> Total: $2,610,615
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They don't think. . . just repeat the party line which is bound to lead them to more losses. IMHO



peacegoddess said:


> Please tell me what you think.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> So you think if we starve ourselves so that we understand the act of suffering is a sign of a healthy mind? People are starving and suffering not by choice. What good are you to the world if you purposely starve yourself and die? If their cause/goal is not accomplished do they stop eating and then die? Or do they give in, eat and admit defeat?


Most hunger strikers who are in jail are force-fed to keep them alive. Hunger strikes have a very long history and have achieved much.

As I often say on this thread, go outside your comfort zone and read something new to you. In short, educate yourself on something different.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yay Yarnie you win the prize! :thumbup:


Yep, an Iron Cross for Yarnie. John Banner (Srgt. Schultz) was an Austrian Jewish refugee who escaped the Nazis by the skin of his teeth in 1938. Not a bad role model, particularly for our first African-American President.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knit, did you really just join today?



knitpresentgifts said:


> :XD:
> 
> I have to learn to use these: funny Bydie!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder how the IRS will feel about being called 'dunderheads.' Not nice birdie.



Bydie said:


> Yes, and it gives you a real warm and cozy feeling knowing that those same dunderheads are going to be in charge of your health care, right? :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know it works for you and your minions. We prefer logic.



Bydie said:


> "When logic fails, resort to name calling".


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yep, an Iron Cross for Yarnie. John Banner (Srgt. Schultz) was an Austrian Jewish refugee who escaped the Nazis by the skin of his teeth in 1938. Not a bad role model, particularly for our first African-American President.


Oh please do me a favor call in the FBI or the CIA What the heck are you talking about. Please read before you post use your brain.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Watch our! The Boogie Man is coming.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You betcha! God help us.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> I know it works for you and your minions. We prefer logic.


What year was that? I have yet to see it from most of you.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Most hunger strikers who are in jail are force-fed to keep them alive. Hunger strikes have a very long history and have achieved much.
> 
> As I often say on this thread, go outside your comfort zone and read something new to you. In short, educate yourself on something different.


Maybe you should stop saying it, because you have no idea what I read. And please your redundant comment about going outside my comfort zone is annoying. If you have a need to be uncomfortable, knock your self out, I don't need to add drama to my life.

In short,
psalm 46:11


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dream on.



off2knit said:


> And according to the news a few minutes ago 60% think Obama bungled Benghazi
> 
> Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gee, are you caught up in the 1970's?



knitpresentgifts said:


> You should seek counsel since you are so angry with the United States military and 'grew up' in the military. Veterans would be appalled to hear what you think of them after they fought for your freedoms. I know first hand. Again, leave the USA and go where you believe it is better and where you can support and speak words of gratitude for your country and its beliefs instead of against it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh please do me a favor call in the FBI or the CIA What the heck are you talking about. Please read before you post use your brain.


Why Yarnie, have you been listening to the little byrdie tweeting in the trees? ("When logic fails, resort to name calling" )


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well, the French Revolution was a different approach, and quite effective.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't understand the starving strike either. It is just self infliction. Only you feel the pain. Kinda crazy if you ask me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Weird people.



alcameron said:


> Weird post


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Read the poll. Found this interesting regarding the demographics of those polled.
> 33% Dem
> 22% Repub
> 38% Undecided
> ...


There are so many polls and they are like the stock market - up and down depending upon who, what, where. In hindsight, it was probably a mistake to post that because holes can be shot in any poll.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Maybe you should stop saying it, because you have no idea what I read. And please your redundant comment about going outside my comfort zone is annoying. If you have a need to be uncomfortable, knock your self out, I don't need to add drama to my life.
> 
> In short,
> psalm 46:11


No I do not know for sure, but from the comments you post I do not think you read anything remotely progressive. However if you do, then share. I enjoy surprises. I have read that fictional book called the Bible


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> Well, well, well. Obozo's IRS STOOGE Lois Lerner has pleaded....NO! NOT the 5th? Let's see....who does that? Ummm....Gangsters like Capone, Luciano and oh yeah, Eric HOLDER!!!! You're in good company there LOIS! Congratulations, you sweetheart you!
> 
> BTW, did you know that 1/3 of ALL the BIPARTISAN sub-committees in Congress are involved in investigating wrong doing by Obozo and his Chicago hoodlum cronies? Of course, we all know that he had NOTHING to do with any of it and KNOWS nothing about it, right?????? I think we should start calling him KnowNoBozo.


When you post items such as this, it doesn't weigh in your favor. I tend to discount posts such as this because they are clouded with personal negativity rather objective thought. Not worthy of discussion at all.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Please explain?


No need to do so.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess you'll still be laughing when the GITMO hunger strikes prompt more retaliation against the USA. Personally, I find that tasteless and counter-productive. But to each his own.



off2knit said:


> Oh my, can't breathe because I am laughing so hard, that is too funny


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Well, the French Revolution was a different approach, and quite effective.


Do you think Madame de Farge was based on a real character?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is that why you guys are so bitter.....because the election is over and you lost?



Bydie said:


> Hey, the election is over! No need to go and kiss up!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Bydie said:


> <Beginning to feel more and more un-tethered every moment>
> 
> SO glad I have my Depends on. Snort!


As are we all........


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why Yarnie, have you been listening to the little byrdie tweeting in the trees? ("When logic fails, resort to name calling" )


Not any more than you do. You love to point out everyones mistakes, but yet you enjoy making them and name calling and lieing are the best you can do. You should apply for a job with the white house. You would fit right in.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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