# Can you help me, please?



## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

Okay.. I just finished a baby cardigan and matching cap which, in an off guard moment I agreed to make for $50.00. That's insane. So I finally kept track of the hours and, even though I am a fast knitter I was shocked.

I don't want to make these sweaters except for gifts for my friends and family. I knit for The Open Door Mission and the kids at Teen Center and those places are where my heart is.
So I'd like your opinion on what I have written below:
Clear enough? Friendly enough? Businessy enough?
I value your opinions and thank you in advance for your help.

I just finished a boy's cardigan and cap. I am a fast knitter but carefully kept track of the hours. I now know that it take a minimum of 50 hours to complete this set from start to finish. Buttons sewn in, pom pom attached to hat. . Ready to go!
If I have to cut and manipulate the yarn in order to keep the design flowing it will take more as I must unroll much of the yarn in order to find strands that match. This is tedius, labor intensive, time consuming and wastes a lot of yarn. The cost of the yarn and the buttons has not even ben figured in to the final cost of the set yet..

I cannot take on a project that would pay me less that I would make working at Walmart. This sweater set would cost you at least $500.00. 

I could teach you how knit for less than that. My fee for teaching knitting is $20.00 for a one hour class. Three classes should give you the basics, I prefer no more than 5 knitter in a class so that each student gets plenty of individual help.

If you want more information please contact me at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. If I'm not in please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Happy Knitting!

Ann DeGray

Life is good when you are happy, better when those around you are happy, too, and best when those around you are happy because of you.


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## Jalsh (Aug 6, 2012)

Personally, I think it sounds pompous. 
A simple and polite "I'm sorry I can't take it on at this time" or something to that effect is sufficient.


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## Chrissy (May 3, 2011)

It is frightening when you do work out a decent hourly rate for hand-knits!
This is why so many of us either decline or have a set figure (usually cost of yarn and accessories X 3) or just knit for the enjoyment.


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## annweb (Feb 23, 2012)

I think your response is too long .I apologise for being unable to fulfill such a project at this time but should you wish to contact me in the future my charge for such an order would be in the region of $500 .
If the person would not want to pay that amount then the request would not be made .


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## Sjlegrandma (Jan 18, 2013)

I have just been approached to make some of my trellis yarn necklaces for a clothing shop but here is the catch. They not only want them for $6 ea we sell them for $8 at the gallery I donate to but they want them left on consignment. They can't understand why I am not falling over backwards to do them. Personally I can't be bothered with all the carry on.


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## jinx (Feb 12, 2011)

I would just say I do not care to knit for payment. Thanks for asking. If you are truly trying to start a knitting class you could then mention that. Just my opinion.


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## Marge in MI (Mar 5, 2011)

I agree with jinx, just a quick polite decline


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## CathyS (Jan 15, 2011)

Hello Ann -

If you agreed to make the set for $50, I'd think you are stuck with that - unless you know the individual well and they are willing to negotiate. 

The letter is ( InMyHumbleOpinion ) too long and too late in this instance. 

In the future, (if you are willing to do it at all) I'd think you will want to be sure to specify the per hour rate up front, and an approximate number of hours - allow for number of hours to change if needed. Also cost of materials and who provides them. Always get an agreement in writing before starting. 

Since you teach, perhaps you would want your hourly knitting rate to be the same rate as for teaching? Plus double cost of materials? Just a couple of thoughts.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

How about, 
I would really rather dedicate the 50 hours to teaching knitting for a fee as opposed to selling finished items. Please contact me if you are interested. Thankyou for admiring my work and let me help you learn the same.

I certainly make more $ selling potholders at Market than baby sweaters and booties etc. but we have a variety that people love so I do them by choice. 

It is wonderful that you knit for your favourite charities, feels good to give.


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## ANENOME (Apr 15, 2015)

I'm with CathyS on this one, Anne. 
Anything custom made/hand crafted includes hours of painstaking work (and in the event of mistakes, hours of re-doing) that just can't be charged for at an hourly rate. 
The time you spend on any project is a part of your life that will never come back to you. So spend it where your heart is and don't feel guilty about saying 'no'. Took me over 45 years to learn that!


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

No problem. Just say no. No explanation is needed but if you wish, enlarge upon this by saying, "I no longer take commissions because I am devoting my spare time to giving knitting classes."


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

I would just say,i am not taking any more orders from now on i am just knitting for my family,i had that happen to me many years ago and that was my answer.


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

I like Jinx's response best.


If you already agreed to the $50 price, I'm not sure how you can change it for this person. that's sort of like picking up a can of motor oil for $5 at Walmart but when you get to the check out they tell you it's now $100.


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

mirl56 said:


> I like Jinx's response best.
> 
> If you already agreed to the $50 price, I'm not sure how you can change it for this person. that's sort of like picking up a can of motor oil for $5 at Walmart but when you get to the check out they tell you it's now $100.


Exactly. When you have agreed upon a price you need to stick with it. If unhappy don't accept any future requests.


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## gypsysoul (Jun 14, 2015)

If you want honesty, I would say that your response would offend me. Especially if we agreed to $50, and you are now backpedalling. Plus, all the explaining. You said $50, and now want $500. I would feel like I was being ripped off. Secondly, and please don't be offended, but, if you are sending the message you have there, as it is, it is spelled tedious. Which I am pretty sure is just a typo on your part. But...the incorrect spelling invalidates you. 

Again, don't be offended. I have to correct my husband's spelling all the time. He cannot send out a quote to a customer with spelling errors. I am a decent speller, but the word "existing" gets me all the time. 

I am going to unwatch this post because I do not bashed because I noticed a typo. And, you did ask for honesty. As the owner of a construction company, the price we agree on is the price. And, we have lost money. Now, the quotes are specific, and they know if there are extras when they ask for them. 

I am currently making two baby afghans for my friend. Her niece is having twins. She bought the yarn. She is offering to pay me, but, I will not accept it. Of course she did tell me she would pay me 6 cents and hour. . She paid for the yarn. I am good with that. I would knit anyway. I have been wanting to try this pattern, so I am excited to get started. Other than that, I just say no to people. I don't really want the pressure.


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## Bstevensdunn (Dec 29, 2012)

Ann,
I understand your issue. The quote is the quote. In my mind, it's too late to change the price.
When we were little my mom made clothes for people. She did not accept payment but double the amount of material required as her payment. As a direct result, we had clothes made out of material that she couldn't afford.
While doubling the yarn on any project isn't going to compensate you for your time, I would rather get good yarn or material that I would not normally buy.
A case in point, I was knitting a great scarf out of a yarn that cost $16.00 a skein on sale. It was my birthday present to myself. I used 2 skeins. My co-worker saw it, and wanted me to make her one. I told her it would be $75.00 or 4 skeins of the yarn. Her response was, "I can get that at Wal-Mart for less money." Needless to say, she didn't find it at Wal-Mart and I didn't make her one. 
I do sew/knit for other people and I am paid with material and yarn.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

CathyS said:


> Hello Ann -
> 
> If you agreed to make the set for $50, I'd think you are stuck with that - unless you know the individual well and they are willing to negotiate.
> 
> ...


I agreed to do it for $50.00 and I will honor that. There has never been a question about that. And the more I think about it the more I realize that just a polite decline is all I need to do. I am a people pleaser by nature and that gets in my way at times. If I am pressured I will tell them how long it takes to make a set. That should settle it.

I haven't given classes other than individual "I'll show you how to do it" sessions. I don't want to give classes so I'll practice my polite decline on that, too.

Thanks, everyone. I needed that!


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

CathyS said:


> Hello Ann -
> 
> If you agreed to make the set for $50, I'd think you are stuck with that - unless you know the individual well and they are willing to negotiate.
> 
> ...


There was never any question about the set I just made. Of course I will honor that.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> I like Jinx's response best.
> 
> If you already agreed to the $50 price, I'm not sure how you can change it for this person. that's sort of like picking up a can of motor oil for $5 at Walmart but when you get to the check out they tell you it's now $100.


That was not an issue. Of course I will honor that. My concern was in regard to all the other requests but I'm just gonna put on my big girl panties and say, "Mo, thanks for appreciating my work."


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

LizR said:


> Exactly. When you have agreed upon a price you need to stick with it. If unhappy don't accept any future requests.


Please read my other posts. My question was not about the set I just made. Of course I will honor that.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

gypsysoul said:


> If you want honesty, I would say that your response would offend me. Especially if we agreed to $50, and you are now backpedalling. Plus, all the explaining. You said $50, and now want $500. I would feel like I was being ripped off. Secondly, and please don't be offended, but, if you are sending the message you have there, as it is, it is spelled tedious. Which I am pretty sure is just a typo on your part. But...the incorrect spelling invalidates you.
> 
> Again, don't be offended. I have to correct my husband's spelling all the time. He cannot send out a quote to a customer with spelling errors. I am a decent speller, but the word "existing" gets me all the time.
> 
> ...


Please read my original post again or any of my additional posts. There has never been a question about the set I just made. When I began keeping track of the hours spent it even surprised me! So in the future I will politely decline no matter how much I am coaxed. Thanks.


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

A deal is a deal, so if $50 was the agreed upon price then you have to go with it!! In the future, I would determine ahead of time what I thought would be fair to both the knitter and customer. If you can't agree upon a price, then no deal. Perhaps then you can offer the knitting classes!

If you look at many of the beautiful handknits on Etsy, they appear to be pricey, but in no way do the prices reflect the number of hours that have gone into completion of the item; but these knitters chose this "occupation" over working at Walmart (as you suggested).


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## liz morris (Dec 28, 2014)

Having already quoted 50 dollars, I think that you will have to stick with this, but in future, just say that the person who asks couldn't afford the costs but you will teach them to knit at $20 per hour. You can always quote them a (slightly inflated) hourly rate for knitting which will put them off even before you add in the cost of the materials.

I've done this myself, I knitted two very small foxes for someone who offered to pay for them but when I said that each one took one hour to knit and one hour to assemble - at £7 per hour that would be £14 per fox i.e. £28. I did give them as a gift because the lady was a friend.


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

Ann - from your original posting, I don't think it was clear that you were honoring your original $50 price to the one buyer and only looking for what to tell future commissions.

In this case, just go with "I'm sorry, but I don't take commissions any more."


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

You asked for our opinions: Mine is that you come over as negative, unprofessional and really quite rude.

After reading your post a second time I felt like I was being repremanded and given an economics lesson.

I would not call you or leave my number after reading this.

Please do not knit for money again. It is obviously not what you were destined to do


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

Ann DeGray said:


> Please read my other posts. My question was not about the set I just made. Of course I will honor that.


Hi Ann-I did read all your posts and understand how you feel. I'm sorry if you thought my comment was directed to you but I was quoting another posters message. I had already assumed that you were honoring your original agreed upon price as you realized how many hours you were spending after accepting the project.

We tend to digress and go off topic so am very sorry if I offended in any way. 

A number of years ago I accepted a commission-it was for a Christmas set, crib size shawl, bonnet, jacket, booties and mittens for a newborn. I began in November but what with Thanksgiving planning for our family, Christmas Fair for my knitting group, helping out at the library 3 day book sale, baking the Christmas goodies and trying to get all the gifts finished or purchased I thought I was going to have a nervous breakdown with all the stress of too many things needing to be done at the same time. I got the set knitted in time but vowed never to do it again.

Now I just relax and with no time restrictions knit what I enjoy making and hope you will do the same.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

Ellie RD said:


> A deal is a deal, so if $50 was the agreed upon price then you have to go with it!! In the future, I would determine ahead of time what I thought would be fair to both the knitter and customer. If you can't agree upon a price, then no deal. Perhaps then you can offer the knitting classes!
> 
> If you look at many of the beautiful handknits on Etsy, they appear to be pricey, but in no way do the prices reflect the number of hours that have gone into completion of the item; but these knitters chose this "occupation" over working at Walmart (as you suggested).


Please read my post more carefully (also additional replies) The set I just made is not in question. Of course I will honor that.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

liz morris said:


> Having already quoted 50 dollars, I think that you will have to stick with this, but in future, just say that the person who asks couldn't afford the costs but you will teach them to knit at $20 per hour. You can always quote them a (slightly inflated) hourly rate for knitting which will put them off even before you add in the cost of the materials.
> 
> I've done this myself, I knitted two very small foxes for someone who offered to pay for them but when I said that each one took one hour to knit and one hour to assemble - at £7 per hour that would be £14 per fox i.e. £28. I did give them as a gift because the lady was a friend.


Of course I will honor the agreement for the set I just made. There has never been a question about that. I


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> Ann - from your original posting, I don't think it was clear that you were honoring your original $50 price to the one buyer and only looking for what to tell future commissions.
> 
> In this case, just go with "I'm sorry, but I don't take commissions any more."


Sorry, I thought I had made it clear (or maybe I just assumed you would all realize that I would).


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

I never make anything for anyone, but I make things as presents, especially for babies. I am intrigued by your talk of matching threads etc. What yarn are you using, please? I cannot imagine what it could be.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

Rosette said:


> I never make anything for anyone, but I make things as presents, especially for babies. I am intrigued by your talk of matching threads etc. What yarn are you using, please? I cannot imagine what it could be.


When using self patterning yarn (the best was Bernat's Baby Floral Jacquard but that's been discontinued), Baby Design (Ice) I want the colorway to match on the sleeves and often have to cut and then find the matching colorway (like you do when matching a pair of sox). I have to find the exact place the patterns are alike....often it looks like they are alike for a little bit and then oops, no it isn't. It is frustrating, very time consuming but so satisfying when everything matches.


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

I agree about too much pressure. When we feel that way about a craft or talent, we no longer can enjoy it. I would not feel guilty - I would just say that "I no longer accept requests" for knitted items.


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## BethChaya (May 6, 2011)

I think this is a great answer for those who do not take and initial "no, sorry, I only knit for those I love". If someone is really aggressive about it, suggest $500 for the set or $60 to offer to teach them how to do it!


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## gypsysoul (Jun 14, 2015)

Just curious: At $500 for a set, you had 50 hours in it. That must be a beautiful piece. I would love to see a picture of it. baby stuff always takes longer than you think it will.


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

A simple no will work, if they don't accept that answer, reiterate that this is your preference and move on and away.


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

Ann DeGray said:


> Please read my post more carefully (also additional replies) The set I just made is not in question. Of course I will honor that.


I did read your post very carefully and those of the others who posted before me. You obviously thought that you inferred that your question was about subsequent requests for knitting jobs, but clearly I was not alone in thinking that you were referring to the current project.

Your tone in your original posting and in subsequent ones comes across as somewhat harsh as others have mentioned.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 16, 2012)

Ann DeGray said:


> I agreed to do it for $50.00 and I will honor that. There has never been a question about that. And the more I think about it the more I realize that just a polite decline is all I need to do. I am a people pleaser by nature and that gets in my way at times. If I am pressured I will tell them how long it takes to make a set. That should settle it.
> 
> I haven't given classes other than individual "I'll show you how to do it" sessions. I don't want to give classes so I'll practice my polite decline on that, too.
> 
> Thanks, everyone. I needed that!


I feel you. I'm a people pleaser myself and have a hard time saying no. I'm glad you shared your issues because it was a nice reminder to me that I can tell people no. And not just in knitting. I baked a ridiculous amount of treats the past two weeks for my daughter's dance team because I can't tell people no, lol. Seriously - 36 cupcakes last week, 72 cake pops this week. Plus another dozen cupcakes last week for my mom's birthday. I went through 4.5 pounds of icing. 

I totally get why your message was so long. As a people pleaser, we want to justify our reasons for not doing something for someone. It's a hard habit to break.

I also don't think non-crafters understand how much money and time goes into a project. I certainly didn't until I started knitting myself.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

Ellie RD said:


> I did read your post very carefully and those of the others who posted before me. You obviously thought that you inferred that your question was about subsequent requests for knitting jobs, but clearly I was not alone in thinking that you were referring to the current project.
> 
> Your tone in your original posting and in subsequent ones comes across as somewhat harsh as others have mentioned.


Sorry, didn't mean to. It was late at night and we had just come back from a very hectic weekend trip. I see now that I hadn't made it clear that I was doing the set for the original price, I would never raise the price on something we have already agreed to. I guess I just assumed you'd know that.

I was shocked when I realized how long the project took. I had never kept track before and as this to cu garment took more planning, rolling out lengths and lengths of yarn in order to find the exact place to cut. Takes time but it looks nice when it's done.

Anyway, I am simply not gonna do any more consignment knitting. Beside the fact that we knitter will never be able to make money doing what we love to do I'd rather spend my time knitting for the Open Door,a homeless shelter, My DH and I volunteer during the school year at a Teen Center.
There are 125 kids in the program. bussed from their neighborhoods where there are gangs, guns, murder poverty and everything else unsavory to a school in a better area. They get a balanced meal. tutors to help them with their homework and teach them that a good education is the way out. They're all good kids who could go either way....they could be incarcerated tomorrow...or attending college next month. I'm very proud of these kids. Some of them don't have much. I've been making caps for them so 
when the first snowflake falls I can tell the kids, "You want a clean new cap? Just pick one you like and it's my gift to you. No frozen ears for you!"


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Ann DeGray said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to. It was late at night and we had just come back from a very hectic weekend trip. I see now that I hadn't made it clear that I was doing the set for the original price, I would never raise the price on something we have already agreed to. I guess I just assumed you'd know that.
> 
> I was shocked when I realized how long the project took. I had never kept track before and as this to cu garment took more planning, rolling out lengths and lengths of yarn in order to find the exact place to cut. Takes time but it looks nice when it's done.
> 
> ...


Wonderful work you are doing Ann. A few positive minutes can make all the difference in a child's life. Very often compromised as a child an adult speaks of the one person, who said or did the one thing that taught them self worth and helped them go on to feel validated as a person. A crucial moment in their life, a kindness never forgotten. 
I am so blessed to have never had a struggle as a child, as these kids have , apart from the growing up thing everyone copes with and so I think to pay good fortune forward is an absolute. We were not rich monetarily but certainly had safety and love in our life. How do these children cope with the situations they have been dealt? It boggles my mind.
Knit on gal!


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

Thanks for the yarn info Ann. I love self-patterning yarn too and bless you for the work you do with teenagers. Sometimes the words you use in your posts make me think that you have a sharp tongue, but you have a heart of gold.


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## jditlin (Mar 13, 2011)

My standard response is: I knit for my enjoyment and will sell items I have made. I will not knit 'on order' as then my knitting becomes work and it is no longer relaxing.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

Ann DeGray said:


> Okay.. I just finished a baby cardigan and matching cap which, in an off guard moment I agreed to make for $50.00. That's insane. So I finally kept track of the hours and, even though I am a fast knitter I was shocked.
> 
> I don't want to make these sweaters except for gifts for my friends and family. I knit for The Open Door Mission and the kids at Teen Center and those places are where my heart is.
> So I'd like your opinion on what I have written below:
> ...


Who are you actually writing to? Prospective customers or who? I don't think you need to spell it out quite like this. Just don't take on anymore requests. Every craft person knows that their work is too time consuming to price realistically - don't we??


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## Bonidale (Mar 26, 2011)

Skip the explanation, I think it would upset the reader. I too agree with Jinx.


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## pretzelzy (Jan 9, 2015)

It's OK to change your mind about doing a project for a stranger. FOr me, handiwork is a labor of love...done for my loved ones and for charity only. $50 is a ridiculously low price for this work and I see nothing wrong with just saying that you don't have the time to do this. I like your offer to teach for pay though.


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## Ms Sue P (Mar 19, 2011)

I just agreed to knit an afghan for a friend Mother-in-law for her Hubby for Christmas. They had an afghan that he loved dearly and they had a house fire a few years ago and lost everything. So I agreed to make it for $75.00 plus the cost of the yarn. I know this is cheap but just helping them to get back what they have lost.


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## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

Ann - I understand completely how you felt, but the person who asked you to make the sweater had no idea how much angst it would cause you. Since you have a real grasp on what you prefer to do with your knitting time, it probably is a good idea to have a pat answer for future requests, so you don't get surprised into committing another block of your time to an unwanted chore. I would simply say "I just don't have the time it takes for commission work, but I do give classes if you are interested." After repeating this several times, it will roll off your tongue at the mere hint of a commission request! Good luck, and remember that these requests really are an homage to your wonderful work.


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## Galaxy Knitter (Apr 12, 2015)

I learned with Quilting, that it costs too much to earn any money. I made myself 14 quilted vests (no internal batting and the vests were lined with satin), and people begged me to make them one, but I said they take too much time and effort, and I would have to charge $500 to make it worthwhile. They kept quiet after that!!!

When I was younger, I belonged to a pottery co-op, and I put my pottery on consignment at gift stores in Guilford, CT, and around there. I figured out that I was making 10 cents an hour. That ended that!!! I went to college to study electronics and became an electronic engineer. I've been out of work for years now, after having cancer, but I did have a great career.


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## jdwilhelm (Dec 6, 2011)

I would just decline the next offer. Use this on as a learning experience...you cannot charge more than the agreed price.

Should someone insist, tell her you charge XX per hour, plus the yarn. Give estimated cost and go from there,,,


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## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

What a dilemma! It truly is amazing how much time some of our projects take to knit. 

I remember knitting a lacey cap for our young gardener's toddler. When his wife saw me she was so appreciative. Then rather sheepishly told me that her girlfriend wondered if I would make one for her little girl... I smiled and said.. yes, for $75.00. Never heard about it again.


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## Barn-dweller (Nov 12, 2013)

Personally I like your explanation. It explains the costs well and might encourage them to learn knitting. :thumbup:


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## kerrie35094 (Jul 2, 2011)

I have just read through two pages of posts and am surprised at the onumber of people who don't read with understanding. You are being lambasted, Ann, and for that I'm sorry. Please slow down folks and re- read before you go off on someone needlessly.


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## stashcoffin (Jun 20, 2015)

It's so kind of you to want to focus on the charitable knitting, especially since you've worked out how much it costs you! I'm afraid to do the math (slow knitter here).


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## stashcoffin (Jun 20, 2015)

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## stashcoffin (Jun 20, 2015)

My dear Mother used to say "if you're mad at somebody, write it all down but don't give it to them" and, to this day, I find that to be therapeutic. I am admiring the concise, specific way yours is written, but I would have to say take the therapy it gave you, throw the letter out, then gracefully decline any new "offers". 
And yes, I DO hope I'm sounding like my Mother!


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## Shautzie (Jun 9, 2013)

6 cents and hour? Don't you find that insulting?


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## reborn knitter (Apr 7, 2013)

Bluebonnet said:


> I feel you. I'm a people pleaser myself and have a hard time saying no. I'm glad you shared your issues because it was a nice reminder to me that I can tell people no. And not just in knitting. I baked a ridiculous amount of treats the past two weeks for my daughter's dance team because I can't tell people no, lol. Seriously - 36 cupcakes last week, 72 cake pops this week. Plus another dozen cupcakes last week for my mom's birthday. I went through 4.5 pounds of icing.
> 
> I totally get why your message was so long. As a people pleaser, we want to justify our reasons for not doing something for someone. It's a hard habit to break.
> 
> I also don't think non-crafters understand how much money and time goes into a project. I certainly didn't until I started knitting myself.


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## judiostudio (Mar 4, 2014)

I tell folks who ask that I do not knit for payment, but if I love you enough I may surprise you with a knitted gift.


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## betsyknit (Apr 4, 2013)

stashcoffin said:


> My dear Mother used to say "if you're mad at somebody, write it all down but don't give it to them" and, to this day, I find that to be therapeutic. I am admiring the concise, specific way yours is written, but I would have to say take the therapy it gave you, throw the letter out, then gracefully decline any new "offers".
> And yes, I DO hope I'm sounding like my Mother!


I love this response!! Actually writing your thoughts down can be so therapeutic. Most of the time I just do it in my head - have the whole conversation in fact. But there is too much math in this instance. Writing it probably helped. And I am the same Ann. I haven't mastered the simple "No, I can't do that" response. I feel like I have to justify it. But "No" has been a good word to learn!


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## Sewgin (Feb 28, 2013)

LizR said:


> No problem. Just say no. No explanation is needed but if you wish, enlarge upon this by saying, "I no longer take commissions because I am devoting my spare time to giving knitting classes."


 :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

gypsysoul said:


> If you want honesty, I would say that your response would offend me. Especially if we agreed to $50, and you are now backpedalling. Plus, all the explaining. You said $50, and now want $500. I would feel like I was being ripped off. Secondly, and please don't be offended, but, if you are sending the message you have there, as it is, it is spelled tedious. Which I am pretty sure is just a typo on your part. But...the incorrect spelling invalidates you.
> 
> Again, don't be offended. I have to correct my husband's spelling all the time. He cannot send out a quote to a customer with spelling errors. I am a decent speller, but the word "existing" gets me all the time.
> 
> ...


I've made several baby things, some hats, and afghans in the distant past. Whatever I make I put a price on it take it to work and if it sells good to go. If not I take it home and bring it in another when a different crew is on. Sold a baby sweater once and brought a race quilt with me to the lady. She liked it asked the price and paid what I asked. I don't think I made money on my hours but I had money in my pocket to buy more yarn. I use $25/skein yarn for socks. Although I agree with the 3 x the cost of the yarn for payment I doubt anyone would pay $75 for a pair of socks and even at that price the hourly would be nothing. JMHO.


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## Ellie RD (Aug 20, 2011)

Ann, I liked your latest response! I don't think that I ever want to knit for monetary payment, but I love to knit for people who pay me with their appreciation for my work. I am sure that the kids at the Teen Center really appreciate your work and that is your payback!!


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## Kahlua (Aug 7, 2012)

I don't knit for individuals, other than family anymore money and that I do for free..I always undercharged for the items and then would be upset with myself afterwards for not asking for a realistic price.

When I've been to craft fairs I sell my dish cloths for $3.00 each or 2 for $5.00....I've had people say "oh i can get it at Walmart - or wherever - for $ then they quote a price....so I just say "then that's where you should shop.....for me trying to figure out what a reasonable price is takes away the pleasure that I get from donating the proceeds to charity....


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## Rosalie Courtney (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm sorry, but I agree, it sounds cold. One 'never' gets truly pd. for a knitting project. BUT - you do get to 'sit' in the comfort of your own home while doing it, often times watching TV or whatever. Most jobs don't allow that comfort. I feel the fee you chg'd of $50. was more than ample. However, perhaps you'll not take on projects again unless it's for your own gratification. I knit non-stop for family, etc. for Christmas or whatever. I have to keep my fingers busy while watching TV, so it's for my own good I'm doing so. I like to 'share' my abilities and am rewarded always with a smile, which is reward enough for me.
Think about it!


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## AdeleRM (May 20, 2012)

I think some people have misunderstood Ann's post. I don't think she is trying to change the amount for the project she has already done; she is just saying what she will tell people in future.


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## Feather (Feb 23, 2011)

I think you should make it for the price you quoted. Perhaps you should have done your homework before you quoted a price.


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## CdnKnittingNan (Nov 17, 2011)

Very well said! Perfect!!


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## Linda6885 (Feb 13, 2011)

I have done knitting for a couple of major yarn companies, and I have to tell you time is not usually a factor in price. Difficulty, and amount of yardage used is what payment is based on. I think it is because time is relative. Maybe one excellent percise knitter makes a hat in 3 hours and another makes the same hat in 5 hours, but the yardage stays the same. So they pay say .10 or .11 x per yard. More fair for them and for the knitter too. For a adult sweater using 1000 yds. I would have been paid $100. Of course when you are selling your work direct to a custumer, you can add something for your time. Then you can gauge it on the retail market in your area.


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## disgo (Mar 2, 2013)

My Dearest and Most Sweet Lady Anne,

I am so preclempt I had to call up Elizabeth to come over and give me a breeze from the silk fan I got her two years ago after reading of you most unfortunate demise. I was able to sip a little tea from my hand painted porcelain with periwinkle blue flowers that did seem to calm me, according to Elizabeth who I instructed to fan harder and give me a biscuit to nibble on.

To think my sweet regal friend has had to start making infant outfits for the likes of Walmart only goes to show one what levels that company will stoop to at such degree that when the upper class is affected they come swooping in like vultures for the spoils. Harder, Elizabeth! Harder! I'm afraid I am going to stop breathing.

With your devout service to the Crown I am sure they can come up with the difference this time in your endeavors expenditures and write it off to charitable cause of something like that.

In full disclosure I nearly fainted on my freshly waxed hardwood floor thinking about you having to even make your own yarn for someone to burp up on. Where have the standards of civilization or a decent society come to when nobility needs to subsist on the lower classes. Not that I do not care for them as I have never said so in public. What next, a tank top for Onslow? At least my sister, Rose, could use one of your negative ease tops and would share in the profit she might get.

Please, please, please take those delicate fingers on holiday and allow them to recoup from such an ordeal. You know you can rely on me to ask Richard to help in anyway we can during your time of need, so dearest just drop me a hand written note next time and we will all straighten this out for you. I could also ask Sheridan for referrals for those customers in the future so take heart, my dear, as we have your broadside covered. OH! Britannia , Britannia Rules The Waves........

Sincerely yours until next time,
HyacinthD


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## CdnKnittingNan (Nov 17, 2011)

You ARE joking, aren't you??


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## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

Ann DeGray said:


> Okay.. I just finished a baby cardigan and matching cap which, in an off guard moment I agreed to make for $50.00. That's insane. So I finally kept track of the hours and, even though I am a fast knitter I was shocked.
> 
> I don't want to make these sweaters except for gifts for my friends and family. I knit for The Open Door Mission and the kids at Teen Center and those places are where my heart is.
> So I'd like your opinion on what I have written below:
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Just say no.

If they press you, tell them you have too many other projects to take on another one.

If you want to plug your class, give them the class times and location.

Keep it simple and don't bloviate.

I read your initial post twice and apparently several others here came to similar conclusions... you charged $50, then decided, after the fact, that $50 was too low for the amount of work/time to complete the project.

Okay. Sounds simple enough. Been there, done that.

Then you went into a long diatribe about $500. At that point, my eyes became glassy and rolled back into my head.

This is like buyer's remorse in reverse.

Really Ann, it sounds like waffling to me. And whining.

Wal Mart?

FYI... lots of women in developing countries knit to support their families. They get paid very little, and have developed techniques to knit quickly and efficiently. 
It's all about volume. They knit to feed their families and don't get anything like $50 for a baby sweater. Some of their work does end up at Wal Mart and my family came from one of those countries. They would love to get $50 to knit a sweater, and could feed their children for several months for that amount of money.

Your replies to several of the posters here came off as snippy and rude. 
If several posters came to similar conclusions, maybe you should reread your initial post. Maybe the problem is your inability to articulate your point.


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## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

Barn-dweller said:


> Personally I like your explanation. It explains the costs well and might encourage them to learn knitting. :thumbup:


I agree. Plus her initial post was very clear what her intentions were. We should pay more attention when we read a post.


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## mmdunphy (May 23, 2012)

Dear Ann,

Maybe what you can say next time is thank you for your business, and tell them to buy a pair of knitting needles and wool and you'll be delighted to help them along with their knitting should they run across any troubles or questions how to make the baby cardigan and hat.

PS....I kinda think your stuck with the price...............eliminate it as a training day in the world of life.

God Bless


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## AdeleRM (May 20, 2012)

carmenl said:


> I agree. Plus her initial post was very clear what her intentions were. We should pay more attention when we read a post.


AMEN!!!


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## Dangrktty (Feb 22, 2013)

disgo said:


> My Dearest and Most Sweet Lady Anne,
> 
> I am so preclempt I had to call up Elizabeth to come over and give me a breeze from the silk fan I got her two years ago after reading of you most unfortunate demise. I was able to sip a little tea from my hand painted porcelain with periwinkle blue flowers that did seem to calm me, according to Elizabeth who I instructed to fan harder and give me a biscuit to nibble on.
> 
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Boo- KAY residence, lady of the house speaking ...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Love it!


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## tmvasquez (May 7, 2013)

First of all there is no way you will ever make an hourly wage when selling needlework. I usually take the cost of the yarn and double it unless the pattern is difficult or lace pattern I add a little more. If you think you will ever get 500.00 for a baby outfit think again. That is just crazy nonsense. Would you pay that?&#128563;


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## conch72 (May 11, 2012)

Shautzie said:


> 6 cents and hour? Don't you find that insulting?


Yes, very.


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## Kolby (Jan 22, 2011)

It would be nice to acknowledge that they like your work . . . "I am flattered that you like my work and thank you for asking me to make you something. I stay so busy knitting for family but, I could teach you how to knit." Then if they are interested in you teaching them you could add . . . "My fee for teaching knitting is $20.00 for a one hour class. Three classes should give you the basics.

If you want more information please contact me at XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. If I'm not in please leave a message and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.

Happy Knitting!

Ann DeGray



Ann DeGray said:


> Okay.. I just finished a baby cardigan and matching cap which, in an off guard moment I agreed to make for $50.00. That's insane. So I finally kept track of the hours and, even though I am a fast knitter I was shocked.
> 
> I don't want to make these sweaters except for gifts for my friends and family. I knit for The Open Door Mission and the kids at Teen Center and those places are where my heart is.
> So I'd like your opinion on what I have written below:
> ...


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## BARBIE-s (Sep 15, 2014)

Sorry but you quoted a figure. I never go back on my word on anything and feel you may be "stuck" in this instance to stand by your agreed upon fee. Excited for you to offer your gift/talent to others to teach !


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## Palenque1978 (Feb 16, 2011)

stashcoffin said:


> My dear Mother used to say "if you're mad at somebody, write it all down but don't give it to them" and, to this day, I find that to be therapeutic. I am admiring the concise, specific way yours is written, but I would have to say take the therapy it gave you, throw the letter out, then gracefully decline any new "offers".
> And yes, I DO hope I'm sounding like my Mother!


Good advice. Thanks.


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## Crafty Joan (Jan 20, 2013)

LizR said:


> No problem. Just say no. No explanation is needed but if you wish, enlarge upon this by saying, "I no longer take commissions because I am devoting my spare time to giving knitting classes."


I agree with LizR. No explanation needed. But if you have already agreed a price with this person you I feel you really should honour it


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## giltay (Nov 4, 2013)

If you consider it "work," then maybe you shouldn't accept a/the commission. Other wise, if you love to knit, then only accept that which you want or will enjoy knitting - the pleasure of knitting and creating something tangible should help offset some of the "time value calculation." A lot of people consider hand-made inferior to store-bought and would not be willing to pay the "time value" anyway.

You might have been better off never doing the calculation because now you seem to feel underappreciated.


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## Rosalie Courtney (Jul 29, 2012)

I used to sell at craft shows and have had people throw my items back to the table saying they can get it cheaper at KMart. My products aren't for "K Mart customers", I'm more for the Macy's, etc. customers.


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## Laurel Beale (Jan 17, 2014)

That sounds reasonable. Like you I have been asked to knit Norwegian sweaters. I basically said , it would be hundreds of dollars. Then they said maybe a relative in Norway would do it and I saidvthat is a good idea! Ha Ha. I like your suggestion that they learn to knit and do their own sweaters. Probably fat chance that will happen.
Laurelk in S. CA


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## 1953knitter (Mar 30, 2011)

The reply is too lengthy. If someone ask me to knit for them, I tell them, it's more expensive yhan you think & I only knit for myself & family members.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 16, 2012)

kerrie35094 said:


> I have just read through two pages of posts and am surprised at the onumber of people who don't read with understanding. You are being lambasted, Ann, and for that I'm sorry. Please slow down folks and re- read before you go off on someone needlessly.


I feel this bears repeating. A lot of people don't seem to be catching this. She's not changing the $50 fee. She's honoring that. Her message is for future requests.


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

You agreed to make this set for $50 so you should do it and not demand more.

In the future, just say no - I don't want to knit for hire. 

No explanation required


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## ltcmomky (Aug 22, 2013)

That is exactly why I don't knit for pay. If asked I say You wouldn't want to pay me what it's worth to do that.


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## JYannucci (Nov 29, 2011)

I think you have to sell for the price you asked for.

I don't sell my work. A friend asked me to make baby blanket for her. She paid for the yarn. When she said she will send money for my work, I said "no". I love to knit. I either gift my work or will fill a friends request is they pay for the yarn.


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

You can't backpedal since you have already agreed. I would give it to the recipient without comment. If she asks you again, just tell her that you would prefer to teach her to knit and what your rate is. You never know....you may introduce someone to knitting, and she would understand the time factor.


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## jsammy (Jun 25, 2012)

I used to make a hooded, back-zip baby sweater that cost me about 17 hours in time and a few dollars for yarn, buttons and zipper. When asked what I would charge for one, I told people, "I don't sell them. I make them for love and give them away!" I gave many to family members and friends.


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## Bluebonnet (Mar 16, 2012)

JYannucci said:


> I think you have to sell for the price you asked for.
> 
> I don't sell my work. A friend asked me to make baby blanket for her. She paid for the yarn. When she said she will send money for my work, I said "no". I love to knit. I either gift my work or will fill a friends request is they pay for the yarn.


That's what I do. I'll make something for a friend and all I ask is for them to buy the yarn. I'll take any excuse for a new knitting project! 

But to be clear, she's sticking with the agreed upon price, she's not trying to charge more or back pedal or anything. She's honoring that price. She's said that many times. She's just asking for future requests.


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## Irene1 (Oct 23, 2013)

I was once asked to make some scarves (I had given several as gifts) for a friend so that she could give them as Chrustmas presents. She proceeded to tell me that she would be very generous with me and pay me $12 each. Since the price of the yarn was $14 + tax, I also very generously declined her offer but did offer to teach her to knit. That was the last I ever heard from her!

I, too, thank people for the compliment of liking my work so much but politely decline the offer being so backed up on projects.


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## boniellen (Sep 17, 2012)

i charge no less than 3 x's the cost of the yarn. Whether it's 30./skein or 5/skein. period. like it of leave it.


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## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

kerrie35094 said:


> I have just read through two pages of posts and am surprised at the onumber of people who don't read with understanding. You are being lambasted, Ann, and for that I'm sorry. Please slow down folks and re- read before you go off on someone needlessly.


I agree.


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## SallyJ (Oct 13, 2012)

I'd love to see the sweater/hat set that you made.

I only knit for people who are close to me and usually I do not charge them anything (unless they want a special yarn and then they purchase it). Most of my friends know how much time is put into these items and as thank you they will either get me a gift card for a yarn store or to a nice restaurant. That shows me I have some honorable and classy friends.

I'm glad to hear you are going to honor your $50 commitment.


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

Jalsh said:


> Personally, I think it sounds pompous.
> A simple and polite "I'm sorry I can't take it on at this time" or something to that effect is sufficient.


While it may be sufficient, it does nothing to teach the requester the amount of time it takes to make these things. If women would do more of this, then we might get paid a bit more for making the things women generally make. I'm with the OP-- if I can't make about as much as I'd make as a greeter at Wally World, then I'm not doing it. Most of my knitting goes to family or friends, often as a request but only if I really want to knit it.


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## Kansas g-ma (Mar 7, 2014)

mirl56 said:


> I like Jinx's response best.
> 
> If you already agreed to the $50 price, I'm not sure how you can change it for this person. that's sort of like picking up a can of motor oil for $5 at Walmart but when you get to the check out they tell you it's now $100.


Somehow I did NOT read that she was doing this to the original person for the baby boy outfit-- I read it that this would be future goods notice. People still need education on how long it takes to make things-- they are totally clueless.


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

gypsysoul said:


> If you want honesty, I would say that your response would offend me. Especially if we agreed to $50, and you are now backpedalling. Plus, all the explaining. You said $50, and now want $500. I would feel like I was being ripped off. Secondly, and please don't be offended, but, if you are sending the message you have there, as it is, it is spelled tedious. Which I am pretty sure is just a typo on your part. But...the incorrect spelling invalidates you.
> 
> Again, don't be offended. I have to correct my husband's spelling all the time. He cannot send out a quote to a customer with spelling errors. I am a decent speller, but the word "existing" gets me all the time.
> I am going to unwatch this post because I do not bashed because I noticed a typo. And, you did ask for honesty. As the owner of a construction company, the price we agree on is the price. And, we have lost money. Now, the quotes are specific, and they know if there are extras when they ask for them.
> ...


 6 cents and hour? Or 6 cents an hour?


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

boniellen said:


> i charge no less than 3 x's the cost of the yarn. Whether it's 30./skein or 5/skein. period. like it of leave it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

I just say "NO" when asked to knit for pay. 
Persistent people get something like this:
"I appreciate your compliment on my knitting but knitting is not a job for me; and I do not knit for pay for anyone, for any price. I prefer to knit what I please, when I please and no more or less."


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Ann DeGray said:


> I agreed to do it for $50.00 and I will honor that. There has never been a question about that. And the more I think about it the more I realize that just a polite decline is all I need to do. I am a people pleaser by nature and that gets in my way at times. If I am pressured I will tell them how long it takes to make a set. That should settle it.
> 
> I haven't given classes other than individual "I'll show you how to do it" sessions. I don't want to give classes so I'll practice my polite decline on that, too.
> 
> Thanks, everyone. I needed that!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: GRAND Lady!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Ann DeGray said:


> Please read my original post again or any of my additional posts. There has never been a question about the set I just made. When I began keeping track of the hours spent it even surprised me! So in the future I will politely decline no matter how much I am coaxed. Thanks.


Hi, Ann. I have to say that I think many people were very quick to misinterpret your message and I always have a problem with that. I understood it from the beginning and kept going back to reread to see where it was they got the idea you were changing the price on the work you had already done. There was no place in your messages where they could have read that, so..... Perhaps this is just one of those days when folks are quick to criticize? I also get what you wrote initially in the sense that I know you to be direct, honest, and to the point; I am, too. Obviously some would rather sugarcoat, which isn't exactly direct, honest, or to the point. Just sayin'. Carry on ;~D.


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## pamjlee (Mar 11, 2012)

jinx said:


> I would just say I do not care to knit for payment. Thanks for asking. If you are truly trying to start a knitting class you could then mention that. Just my opinion.


I agree with this. Keep it simple.


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Bstevensdunn said:


> Ann,
> I understand your issue. The quote is the quote. In my mind, it's too late to change the price.
> When we were little my mom made clothes for people. She did not accept payment but double the amount of material required as her payment. As a direct result, we had clothes made out of material that she couldn't afford.
> While doubling the yarn on any project isn't going to compensate you for your time, I would rather get good yarn or material that I would not normally buy.
> ...


This has happened to me too, when people like an item I wear, in this case made with Koigu Yarns. When they learn about the price per skein, they always say they can buy it cheaper at Walmart. I always send them to the 99 cents store, maybe they'll find it even cheaper. :lol: :lol: . But my Friend Tina LOVES the Koigu Yarns, and handmade items. She knows how long it takes to knit/crochet something, because her Mother used to do it, and now with arthritis, can't do it anymore. Tina orders the Koigu Yarn online, or goes to LYS in Pasadena, Santa Monica, or Studio City to get it, selects a pattern, and I'll make it for her at no charge. She gets me beautiful silk yarn and silk items when she travels to India with her in-laws, and gives me gift cards to Joan's, Michaels, and several LYS in my area.


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## trish439 (Jan 25, 2015)

I have to agree , if you said $50 and it is already finished, you just have to eat the labor. Next time, if there is one, figure out your hours and charge what you feel appropriate. A deal is a deal


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Ann DeGray said:


> When using self patterning yarn (the best was Bernat's Baby Floral Jacquard but that's been discontinued), Baby Design (Ice) I want the colorway to match on the sleev es and often have to cut and then find the matching colorway (like you do when matching a pair of sox). I have to find the exact place the patterns are alike....often it looks like they are alike for a little bit and then oops, no it isn't. It is frustrating, very time consuming but so satisfying when everything matches.


I agree with You. I do the same with yarns like the 2 You mentioned. And I like the little flowers, or duckies, or whatever, line up at the yoke with the design on the sleeves, etc. Even with plain variegated yarns, I sometimes have to cut and re-attach yarns so the color pattern doesn't get interrupted.


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## nwjasu (Nov 8, 2011)

I like the keep it simple answers like 'I am no longer a contract knitter, but I do have classes'.
Valuing ourselves, our work, our time is the first step in getting others to value us.


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## Rumrunner (Mar 21, 2011)

I am asked all the time to knit items for others. My answer is ' I can't make it for you but I'm happy to teach you how'. This stops them dead in thier steps. If they realize how long it takes, they don't want to put forth the effort. I also always smile when I say this. Some have taken me up on lessons and we both enjoy them.


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

RosieC said:


> I agree about too much pressure. When we feel that way about a craft or talent, we no longer can enjoy it. I would not feel guilty - I would just say that "I no longer accept requests" for knitted items.


I never offer to make something for anybody, but if I'm asked to do it, before I say yes or no, I let them know the price of the yarns they select, and suggest alternative yarns for the project, and an estimate of the time it will take to complete it. If I buy the yarn, I normally double the price of it (And the Owner of one of a LYS where I buy yarn told me that I'm doing a disservice for other Crafters).


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Ann DeGray said:


> Sorry, didn't mean to. It was late at night and we had just come back from a very hectic weekend trip. I see now that I hadn't made it clear that I was doing the set for the original price, I would never raise the price on something we have already agreed to. I guess I just assumed you'd know that.
> 
> I was shocked when I realized how long the project took. I had never kept track before and as this to cu garment took more planning, rolling out lengths and lengths of yarn in order to find the exact place to cut. Takes time but it looks nice when it's done.
> 
> ...


I LOVE this WOMAN!! Beautiful, Classy Lady.


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## normancha (May 27, 2013)

Galaxy Knitter said:


> I learned with Quilting, that it costs too much to earn any money. I made myself 14 quilted vests (no internal batting and the vests were lined with satin), and people begged me to make them one, but I said they take too much time and effort, and I would have to charge $500 to make it worthwhile. They kept quiet after that!!!
> 
> When I was younger, I belonged to a pottery co-op, and I put my pottery on consignment at gift stores in Guilford, CT, and around there. I figured out that I was making 10 cents an hour. That ended that!!! I went to college to study electronics and became an electronic engineer. I've been out of work for years now, after having cancer, but I did have a great career.


From my late 20s to my early 40s, I worked as an electronics technician in the aerospace industry, and I got thyroid cancer, probably due to contamination by the use of thrichloroethane.


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## gypsysoul (Jun 14, 2015)

normancha said:


> 6 cents and hour? Or 6 cents an hour?


An. I am newly blonde.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

normancha said:


> 6 cents and hour? Or 6 cents an hour?


I guess it's okay to correct the spelling of others--if you have proofread your own..... I've given up on that whole thing because it can get risky ;~). I've noticed repeated instances recently of "an" being spelled as "and." I didn't know if it was a new fad or instances of inattention/automatic typing, but I decided not to go there. You're a braver soul than I.


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## Carole Jeanne (Nov 18, 2011)

Ann DeGray said:


> Okay.. I just finished a baby cardigan and matching cap which, in an off guard moment I agreed to make for $50.00. That's insane. So I finally kept track of the hours and, even though I am a fast knitter I was shocked.
> 
> I don't want to make these sweaters except for gifts for my friends and family. I knit for The Open Door Mission and the kids at Teen Center and those places are where my heart is.
> So I'd like your opinion on what I have written below:
> ...


On a brighter note, it helps me figure out what I think to begin writing. By the end, I have a handle on the problem and what precipitated my extreme reaction.

Most of the time I have Said yes when I should have said no on multiple occasions and this is the last straw.

All is not lost. I usually dump the letter or complaint and feel much better for having expressed n identified my thoughts. I can then return to gratitude and a more peaceful day

Hopefully this haas been your experience.


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## carmenl (Jan 30, 2011)

It's interesting how people will jump on the band wagon in the middle of the parade without bothering to get the facts straight. Please read the whole thread before commenting. I thought Ann's post was concise and to the point. She sounds like some one I would like for a friend.


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## Jannette Burke (Nov 21, 2014)

Ooowee. As a knitter, and please don't be offended, I would honestly do it as a gift. I think $50.00 is quite a lot. When I'm asked to do anything, I usually reply "I HAVE MORE THAN I CAN HANDLE". Charging such a fee, people are likely to leave you with the work you've done. Simply ask to give something for your time not less than $10.00.


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## stitch1 (May 16, 2012)

I do like your quote at the end of your plea.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> I guess it's okay to correct the spelling of others--if you have proofread your own..... I've given up on that whole thing because it can get risky ;~). I've noticed repeated instances recently of "an" being spelled as "and." I didn't know if it was a new fad or instances of inattention/automatic typing, but I decided not to go there. You're a braver soul than I.


Busy fingers want to add content.


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## Pollard (Sep 17, 2011)

Re. the latter letter....Who works for 6 cents an hour, l almost consider this an insult. I would ask myself, "is the money really worth all the time and effort" You would feel freer if you were not involved in all that. Good Luck, calm your thoughts and think twice before you jump in the deep end. Winifred.


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Bluebonnet said:


> I feel you. I'm a people pleaser myself and have a hard time saying no. I'm glad you shared your issues because it was a nice reminder to me that I can tell people no. And not just in knitting. I baked a ridiculous amount of treats the past two weeks for my daughter's dance team because I can't tell people no.
> 
> This used to be me, I finally satisfied my need to explain by the generic statement, "I'm sorry I can't, I have a prior commitment." and leave it at that, with no further explanation. Some times that commitment was a promise to teach a health related class, some times it was to pamper myself by spending the afternoon reading. I found virtually everyone accepted that, and for the really pushy people who would persist with alternative requests ( if you can't do A this week can you do B next week) my response was, "With work, school, the kids and their activities. My schedule is full for the foreseeable future, if you will get me a list of what you are going to need in the next few months and if I can fit anything in I'll let you know. No one ever gave me a list.
> 
> Re: OP. How about, "I'm sorry I no longer accept commissions." And leave it at that. If the person persists then you could say, "My last commission was for a baby set that cost me xxx dollars to make and took me xxx hours. To even consider a similar commission I would need to charge $500." That way the pushy hey educated on cost of yarn and time involved.


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## Jeanie L (Sep 27, 2011)

carmenl said:


> It's interesting how people will jump on the band wagon in the middle of the parade without bothering to get the facts straight. Please read the whole thread before commenting. I thought Ann's post was concise and to the point. She sounds like some one I would like for a friend.


I agree..


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## Slambis (Feb 13, 2015)

I am very fortunate to have come from an extremely talented and creative family. My late parents and I all learned a long time ago that people will not pay what your time is worth. 

My father sold some exquisite pieces of woodcraft, but people were always shocked at the price!

We all learned to make things because we enjoy it and to give the items to people who will appreciate them.

Whenever I am asked if I sell the things I make, I simply reply "Never" I make things simply because I can and because I like to create. It's cheaper than therapy!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Busy fingers want to add content.


Good one!! The little buggers have minds of their own!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> Good one!! The little buggers have minds of their own!


And for some reason I always leave the r off of your....


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jeanie L said:


> I agree..


I think Ann is a sweetheart. If you read what she says without rushing through it, you will find that she is very concise and you never have to wonder what she meant or where you stand with her.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And for some reason I always leave the r off of your....


Really? How did I miss that?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> Really? How did I miss that?


Cuz if I see it I correct it. Can't stand misspellings or typos.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Cuz if I see it I correct it. Can't stand misspellings or typos.


As my stepdaughter would say, "Okee-dokee, then."


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> As my stepdaughter would say, "Okee-dokee, then."


I don't comment too often on others but I'm a picky about mine. NUNS I think.


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## ParkerEliz (Mar 21, 2011)

Agreed, just a simple No, I don't have the time to taken on any additional projects. That should be enough said.


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## gypsysoul (Jun 14, 2015)

SAMkewel said:


> I guess it's okay to correct the spelling of others--if you have proofread your own..... I've given up on that whole thing because it can get risky ;~). I've noticed repeated instances recently of "an" being spelled as "and." I didn't know if it was a new fad or instances of inattention/automatic typing, but I decided not to go there. You're a braver soul than I.


I don't care, I want my mistakes pointed out. Generally I proofread my stuff. But, sometimes I am tired, AND don't put on the bifocals when using the tablet. I can't see a thing without them on my tablet. When I was going to Catholic school any type of spelling error, or mistake got things counted wrong. So, if the answer was right, and you spelled something wrong, it was still wrong. Usually I am super attentive, late at night, not so much.


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## gypsysoul (Jun 14, 2015)

Pollard said:


> Re. the latter letter....Who works for 6 cents an hour, l almost consider this an insult. I would ask myself, "is the money really worth all the time and effort" You would feel freer if you were not involved in all that. Good Luck, calm your thoughts and think twice before you jump in the deep end. Winifred.


We have been friends for 40 years. She isn't really paying me 6 cents an hour. She bought the yarn. I'm not letting her pay me at all. But, I will take a bottle of wine.


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## dawnmc1 (Sep 3, 2011)

$500 for a baby's cardigan and hat!!!! must be made of gold!


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## Artbarn (Aug 1, 2014)

kerrie35094 said:


> I have just read through two pages of posts and am surprised at the onumber of people who don't read with understanding. You are being lambasted, Ann, and for that I'm sorry. Please slow down folks and re- read before you go off on someone needlessly.


I agree with Kerrie. I think there are a lot of harsh responses here. I understood your original post, Ann. You agreed to make the set for $50 and realized that you put in way too many hours to charge such a small amount again. The rest of your post is referring how you would respond to future requests.

Your explanation for responding to future requests made perfect sense to me. I don't thing it was too long. I do think that it will save hurt feelings--it's not that you don't want to do it, but you've mapped out the facts that add up to a $500 price tag.

I once made a hand-beaded, 3-inch-wide cuff bracelet of the New York City skyline for myself. It took about 25 hours of beading; at $10 per hour, that's $250 plus about $30 in materials. When a friend told me how much she loved it and could she pay me to make one, I explained this to her. Her eyes got really big and she decided she didn't need that bracelet after all. If I had simply told her I didn't want to make the bracelet for her, I know her feelings would have been hurt.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

stashcoffin said:


> My dear Mother used to say "if you're mad at somebody, write it all down but don't give it to them" and, to this day, I find that to be therapeutic. I am admiring the concise, specific way yours is written, but I would have to say take the therapy it gave you, throw the letter out, then gracefully decline any new "offers".
> And yes, I DO hope I'm sounding like my Mother!


You've done your mother proud!!


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## Moondancermel (Nov 18, 2012)

This is why I never knit for anyone but friends and they have to buy the yarn and allow me to work in my own time. Often they never come back to me because they realse the cost of the yarn is far more than they expected (let alone my time).

I do end up with items that are the results of desiging patterns, which I sell. These usually only fetch the materials plus £1 and hour if I am lucky, which is why I don't take on commissions. Most people will not pay you a living wage to make something. 

Just say no, you owe them no explaination. If they ask tell them it takes 50-60 hours plus the cost of the yarn and yout time is worth minimum wage at least. They will soon work it out.


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## pfoley (Nov 29, 2011)

I would just say: 
I am sorry but I am no longer taking on any additional projects. I am just too busy.


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## Amysue (Apr 23, 2012)

I agree with Jalsh it sounds very rude, I wouldn't want you to knit for me.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Amysue said:


> I agree with Jalsh it sounds very rude, I wouldn't want you to knit for me.


Ann can knit for me any day! Too much as been read wrongly into this thread!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Ann can knit for me any day! Too much as been read wrongly into this thread!


I agree. Some folks just have to sit in judgement of other folks in order to be happy, I guess. If there is some other reason for it, I don't know what it is since it's entirely possible to disagree without being personally judgmental or nasty about it. I've been aware of Ann's presence on this forum for a long time now, and I have no idea why anyone would judge her so harshly in view of her other posts.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I agree. Some folks just have to sit in judgement of other folks in order to be happy, I guess. If there is some other reason for it, I don't know what it is since it's entirely possible to disagree without being personally judgmental or nasty about it. I've been aware of Ann's presence on this forum for a long time now, and I have no idea why anyone would judge her so harshly in view of her other posts.


Look again at how long those negative people have been registered on KP and how many posts they've made - usually not very long and not many. They skim instead of read and miss half the meaning; then they shoot from the hip. Hip-shots have been proven to be quite inaccurate - on Myth Busters anyway.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Rumrunner said:


> I am asked all the time to knit items for others. My answer is 'I can't make it for you but I'm happy to teach you how'. This stops them dead in their steps. If they realize how long it takes, they don't want to put forth the effort. I also always smile when I say this. Some have taken me up on lessons and we both enjoy them.


You've been luckier than I. Not a one has taken me up on my offer of free lessons with free needles and yarn to get started!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

dawnmc1 said:


> $500 for a baby's cardigan and hat!!!! must be made of gold!


Please, tell me how much you would expect to be paid for fifty hours work, _not_ including the materials.

*I* _ask for_ $25/hr.; that was my hourly wage before retirement. In my 61 years of knitting, I've invested heavily in learning how to do what I do with yarn. That investment of time is worth something. To date, no one has been willing to pay that much, and that's just as well. I'd rather knit what I want, for whomever it pleases me, and with whatever yarn I have in stash.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

CdnKnittingNan said:


> You ARE joking, aren't you??


Since you used either 'Reply' or 'Quick Reply', no one has a clue to whom you're responding. Too bad! I could use a joke about now.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Since you used either 'Reply' or 'Quick Reply', no one has a clue to whom you're responding. Too bad! I could use a joke about now.


I could use a joke about now, too. Apparently those of us who have worked for many years have a better idea of what our time is worth than those who may not have. Do you get the feeling that many knitters undervalue their skills as much as many non-knitters? Isn't that called being brainwashed?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I could use a joke about now, too. Apparently those of us who have worked for many years have a better idea of what our time is worth than those who may not have. Do you get the feeling that many knitters undervalue their skills as much as many non-knitters? Isn't that called being brainwashed?


Those who practice *ANY* skill within the home are _always_ undervalued. Homecooking, homecanning, homesewing, homeknitting, homegardening, homedecorating, homecrafting. The identical activity - practiced outside of the family home - gets real PAY. 
So? What _else_ is new under the sun?


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Those who practice *ANY* skill within the home are _always_ undervalued. Homecooking, homecanning, homesewing, homeknitting, homegardening, homedecorating, homecrafting. The identical activity - practiced outside of the family home - gets real PAY.
> So? What _else_ is new under the sun?


I agree; that's the way it has probably always been. But WHY? Is it that women allow themselves to be undervalued in the home and accept being taken for granted, or are there other reasons?


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I agree; that's the way it has probably always been. But WHY? Is it that women allow themselves to be undervalued in the home and accept being taken for granted, or are there other reasons?


Upbringing? 
Girls are told to be quiet. Boys are expected to fight back. Could it be as basic as that?
Now that we have a generation or two of females raised with higher expectations - the result of the Women's Liberation movement, etc. - it seems they are achieving higher goals in greater numbers than in the pre-1970s. Of course, not _all_ are raised in that manner; there are still the quiet ones who underachieve academically, willingly accept lower pay than their male counterparts, and undervalue their products and themselves. Bad example for their daughters _and_ their sons as well; those boys' future wives will suffer for it. :thumbdown:


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Upbringing?
> Girls are told to be quiet. Boys are expected to fight back. Could it be as basic as that?
> Now that we have a generation or two of females raised with higher expectations - the result of the Women's Liberation movement, etc. - it seems they are achieving higher goals in greater numbers than in the pre-1970s. Of course, not _all_ are raised in that manner; there are still the quiet ones who underachieve academically, willingly accept lower pay than their male counterparts, and undervalue their products and themselves. Bad example for their daughters _and_ their sons as well; those boys' future wives will suffer for it. :thumbdown:


While I remained quiet outwardly due to upbringing, I was always looking for a better way for people to live since I was around eight (1947). I was all for women's liberation before it had a name or became organized, and was bullied as much by females as by males as a result. It was/is a terrible example for humanity. Progress is being made, but oh, so slowly.

It's fascinating to me that some of us cave under that kind of upbringing while others rebel against the status quo.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> ... It's fascinating to me that some of us cave under that kind of upbringing while others rebel against the status quo.


But hasn't it always been so? It's just become more prevalent and acceptable than it was. Pray that it continues.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Those who practice *ANY* skill within the home are _always_ undervalued. Homecooking, homecanning, homesewing, homeknitting, homegardening, homedecorating, homecrafting. The identical activity - practiced outside of the family home - gets real PAY.
> So? What _else_ is new under the sun?


And that is why, all the homemaker skills, that the insurance agent will tell a husband to insure his wife to the hilt if they have little kids, no one can do both jobs in the home and in the working sector, easily, cheaply or worry-less, just ask a single parent that tries and is harried and struggling greatly in life! Paying for child care or hiring a nanny is not cheap, and even if the wife worked and these services were provided for, there is now one less income to pay it all.
Always amazes me when people are surprised to learn you carry out all these duties or pleasures , whatever the case, what do they thinks parents do all day?


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> You've been luckier than I. Not a one has taken me up on my offer of free lessons with free needles and yarn to get started!


I need to learn many skills that I believe you likely possess so I will be up ! Well not tomorrow , I must recuperate from the yard sale!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> I need to learn many skills that I believe you likely possess so I will be up ! Well not tomorrow , I must recuperate from the yard sale!


As long as you're not allergic to cats (only one left now), dust-bunnies that have occasionally in the gloaming been mistaken for sleeping cats, and terminal clutter and disorganization, you're welcome any time. I can even clear off a spare bed - single or queen, your choice.
Dishes and clothes are clean; all else is iffy. I'd rather knit than do housework.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> As long as you're not allergic to cats (only one left now), dust-bunnies that have occasionally in the gloaming been mistaken for sleeping cats, and terminal clutter and disorganization, you're welcome any time. I can even clear off a spare bed - single or queen, your choice.
> Dishes and clothes are clean; all else is iffy. I'd rather knit than do housework.


Thanks, flat surfaces are a bane in this house! I would like to know how a clean cupboard can be in disarray by just turning around?!? Not allergic to cats or dust bunnies and half a bed is all I require!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Thanks, flat surfaces are a bane in this house! I would like to know how a clean cupboard can be in disarray by just turning around?!? Not allergic to cats or dust bunnies and half a bed is all I require!


Flat surfaces? The only _clear_ one in this house today is our bed. I refuse to allow anything other than ourselves clutter *it*! However, my youngest sister has told me that she usually only has a half-a-bed on which to sleep - an assortment of clothing (clean and not so much) and a cat or more occupying the rest of her queen-sized bed. 

Growing up, I swore I wouldn't turn into my mother. Now that I've outlived her, I must admit to probably having become her - at least, in things related to housekeeping and piling 'stuff' on every flat surface in sight!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Flat surfaces? The only _clear_ one in this house today is our bed. I refuse to allow anything other than ourselves clutter *it*! However, my youngest sister has told me that she usually only has a half-a-bed on which to sleep - an assortment of clothing (clean and not so much) and a cat or more occupying the rest of her queen-sized bed.
> 
> Growing up, I swore I wouldn't turn into my mother. Now that I've outlived her, I must admit to probably having become her - at least, in things related to housekeeping and piling 'stuff' on every flat surface in sight!


I've kept my vow never to turn into my mother. She was a compulsive clean/neat freak. 'Tis the father I have turned into when it comes to saving things--in plain sight. When I had kids around, I managed not to do that, but now who gives a rip? I can also be extremely frugal like he was if/when it was necessary, but it is not my chosen way of life.

You and I are both down to one cat; I'm also down to two healthy dogs and one not so. He is even more arthritic than I and having trouble getting around.


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## LilgirlCA (Jan 22, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Those who practice *ANY* skill within the home are _always_ undervalued. Homecooking, homecanning, homesewing, homeknitting, homegardening, homedecorating, homecrafting. The identical activity - practiced outside of the family home - gets real PAY.
> So? What _else_ is new under the sun?


This undervaluation of 'homemade' is why many crafters are referring to their creations as 'hand made'.

Crafters who sell their creations generally undervalue their work thinking that they have to compete with Walmart pricing which is impossible.

Hand knit items should be very expensive due to the time it takes - to become proficient at the skills required and the amount of the making the item takes.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Flat surfaces? The only _clear_ one in this house today is our bed. I refuse to allow anything other than ourselves clutter *it*! However, my youngest sister has told me that she usually only has a half-a-bed on which to sleep - an assortment of clothing (clean and not so much) and a cat or more occupying the rest of her queen-sized bed.
> 
> Growing up, I swore I wouldn't turn into my mother. Now that I've outlived her, I must admit to probably having become her - at least, in things related to housekeeping and piling 'stuff' on every flat surface in sight!


My Mum is neat and tidy but how could a person be less when there were always 8 people in our house in the winter and no less than 12 in summer and then add in all kinds of stay over company in a small house! I was extremely tidy when the boys were home to be a good example, got slack but am trying to be tidy again with the Gkids around. They actually say Gramma you have everything put away when they come if I have tidied up the correspondence and handcrafts. I like square corners and will not bake or cook unless the kitchen is clean. The rest is come at least three times so you see the good, the bad, the ugly!


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## SallyJ (Oct 13, 2012)

I'd still love to see a picture of the sweater.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> My Mum is neat and tidy but how could a person be less when there were always 8 people in our house in the winter and no less than 12 in summer and then add in all kinds of stay over company in a small house! I was extremely tidy when the boys were home to be a good example, got slack but am trying to be tidy again with the Gkids around. They actually say Gramma you have everything put away when they come if I have tidied up the correspondence and handcrafts. I like square corners and will not bake or cook unless the kitchen is clean. The rest is come at least three times so you see the good, the bad, the ugly!


I'm with you on the kitchen, and also bathrooms. Otherwise, not so much ;~).


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## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

LilgirlCA said:


> This undervaluation of 'homemade' is why many crafters are referring to their creations as 'hand made'.
> 
> Crafters who sell their creations generally undervalue their work thinking that they have to compete with Walmart pricing which is impossible.
> 
> Hand knit items should be very expensive due to the time it takes - to become proficient at the skills required and the amount of the making the item takes.


Perhaps that would change (slowly) if we ALL stopped using the term, "home made" and started using the term, "hand crafted" exclusively.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

KateLyn11 said:


> Perhaps that would change (slowly) if we ALL stopped using the term, "home made" and started using the term, "hand crafted" exclusively.


I have never used either term for the things I make. I just say that I made it.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

SallyJ said:


> I'd still love to see a picture of the sweater.


I posted pictures today.


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

gypsysoul said:


> Just curious: At $500 for a set, you had 50 hours in it. That must be a beautiful piece. I would love to see a picture of it. baby stuff always takes longer than you think it will.


I posted pictures today.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

I knitted an Aran sweater for a friend. A total stranger asked me to knit one for her. Didn't want to do it so I 'upped the $ ' to $1500.00. Certainly wouldn't do it but I wanted to get rid of her. She left--can't imagine why! :-D


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mmorris said:


> I knitted an Aran sweater for a friend. A total stranger asked me to knit one for her. Didn't want to do it so I 'upped the $ ' to $1500.00. Certainly wouldn't do it but I wanted to get rid of her. She left--can't imagine why! :-D


Adult Aran sweater ... takes _how_ many hours? I've done one - a Mary Maxim kit for my daughter. I did another - becabled cardigan with a dozen different cable patterns, as per my mother's request. If I were to ask for payment for such, $1500.00 wouldn't come even close to what I'd ask! 
I do not understand how they can sell them so cheaply, _even_ though some of them or their parts are done on home knitting machines: http://www.aransweatermarket.com/ladies-knitwear


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