# Addition of Progressive Womens Group



## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I’m not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a “conservative women’s” viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics. 

My unanswered note to KP administrator:

I’m very disappointed that this Progressive group has been added to KP. Up until now I really enjoyed this forum as a place to discuss knitting and crafts. This progressive forum is just a place for disgruntled people to trash the president. I see no need or place for this group to be on KP. To me it simply exacerbates the political divide in our country. I’m sure there are many other sites online that people can voice their political opinion. I vote that KP return to a neutral forum where people of all persuasions can discuss the crafts we love equally, without being subjected to any political views. 
Respectfully, mkelley


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## cbjllinda (Mar 6, 2016)

I have to agree with you so much of our lives are filled with all this garbage and I for one am really sick of all of it. I like most come here for crafts and not politics.


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## nanad (Mar 9, 2011)

Likewise !


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

Nice effort to send a message to Admin. But I think we all realize by now that Admin isn't adminning at all. 

It's easy enough to just stay out of that section if it doesn't interest you. I have no problem staying out of it and other sections. For instance, I don't subscribe to Loom Knitting as I have little interest in it.


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## Patti110654 (Jun 8, 2011)

I agree it has no place here. . . .but I just won't look at or participate in that section.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


When you say, 'has been added' do you mean you just ran across it recently? Because it has been a part of KP ever since I joined.

There is a conservative section also. The Solarium is not branded as a conservative section, but the KP members who like to hang out there are almost entirely very conservative in perspective, and are for the most part Trump supporters.

There are many other KP sections that are not knitting and crafts related. I see your point about divisiveness being your objection to the PWF, which wouldn't apply to these other sections. However, we can all choose what we wish to read. I find PWF to be a source of news that I wouldn't get a chance to scrounge up myself. And muzzling opinions with which we do not agree is un-American and unpatriotic.

Edited to add: if you do hear from Admin, please let us know. He has been missing in action for a while to the best of my knowledge.


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## MRSTLD (Oct 1, 2012)

I agree! Politics should stay out of KP!


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## maxjones (Aug 2, 2011)

mirl56 said:


> Nice effort to send a message to Admin. But I think we all realize by now that Admin isn't adminning at all.
> 
> It's easy enough to just stay out of that section if it doesn't interest you. I have no problem staying out of it and other sections. For instance, I don't subscribe to Loom Knitting as I have little interest in it.


I agree with mirl56, just ignore and stay away. I skip tons of topics here, because of time restraints.


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## bokemom (Mar 16, 2017)

It doesn't bother me that there is a section for that. There are a lot of sections on kp that I never see because they don't interest me. The problem lately is the mia administrator that doesn't keep things where they belong. When I first started kp if I posted in the wrong section I was sure to hear about it.


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## Ermdog (Apr 24, 2014)

I'm with you. It's distressing enough just walking out the door every day. I stopped watching any form of news coverage long ago because of all the vitriol and wish for a place for relief from any form of that. My heart is weary of the increasing hatred and hate seeing it invade this site. Of course I will avoid that section, I just wish there weren't so many, so eager to turn KP into another place to spew the hatred. But then, I suppose if there is a section dedicated to that, perhaps it won't bleed out into other sections. I wonder. Well, here's hoping.


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## 8536 (Feb 24, 2011)

Thank you for your post to admin and its message.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

I don’t get what difference it makes if there’s a section one doesn’t enjoy. Just don’t ever enter that section. For those of us who read from the site rather than the daily digest, we can just set our preferences to never show that category on our pages.


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## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

I think for the most part you are right. This is a knitting/ crochet forum. Not politics. I think a large majority of people are extremely frustrated with the antics of the present administration. They just need to get it out


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

If you go to your Profile, you will see that you are (by default) subscribed to all sections of KP. If you select unsubscribe, you will not see that section. As an example, I do not wish to see Chit Chat, Other Crafts, Machine Knitting, etc. 

On that note, the Progressive Women's Forum is a place to keep those who are interested, up on the subjects now important to our democracy. There are articles posted that we may not all see. Some have comments and some do not. You could say that it is also a place to speak out and resolve our frustrations with the current administration. If you don't agree, that is your right. No one is forced to endure any part of KP, but it is not all about knitting and crocheting and other crafts. It is a place for questions, answers, opinions, and discussions. 

Just change your settings and enjoy the sections that you want to read.


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## AdeleRM (May 20, 2012)

So, don't subscribe to it!


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

scrapbookbabs said:


> I think for the most part you are right. This is a knitting/ crochet forum. Not politics. I think a large majority of people are extremely frustrated with the antics of the present administration. They just need to get it out


In a way it really _isn't_ a knitting/ crochet forum. It's got all kinds of other things. If the problem is that it's called *knitting* paradise, well then we need to outlaw crochet and "other craft." along with everything else that's non-knitting.

I'd say we need a section called "Things to whine about."


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## smasha12 (Oct 27, 2012)

I have learned to avoid sections that are one-sided, one way or the other. I don’t have anyone on ignore, but I do know whose posts will irritate me (for a variety of reasons) and just skip those too. They don’t know and it saves me from bad moods or high blood pressure!


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Ermdog said:


> I'm with you. It's distressing enough just walking out the door every day. I stopped watching any form of news coverage long ago because of all the vitriol and wish for a place for relief from any form of that. My heart is weary of the increasing hatred and hate seeing it invade this site. Of course I will avoid that section, I just wish there weren't so many, so eager to turn KP into another place to spew the hatred. But then, I suppose if there is a section dedicated to that, perhaps it won't bleed out into other sections. I wonder. Well, here's hoping.


See the other posts that tell you how to unsubscribe from any section you do not wish to see.

With regard to you not watching any form of news coverage, that is also your choice. However, there are numerous current events that are important to all of us. If you don't look for the truth, how can you decide whether you and/or your families are being affected by decisions that being made and when, or if, you need to be involved? EX. The students from Parkland and across the nation who are trying to find a way to keep others safe.


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## katanamama (Mar 9, 2017)

Separate political groups take away from the credibility and integrity of KP. It only emphasizes the division and exclusion of people who otherwise share a common interest. 

IMHO constant negativity and complaining is exhausting, non productive and boring. It's way past time to bring back common courtesy and respect.

I prefer not knowing what others political affiliations are. My parents used to tell us never discuss politics or religion at parties and social gatherings and it's still good advice.


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## knit4ES (Aug 24, 2015)

And the OP posted this in the wrong section... this post is not about knitting and crocheting.
As others have said, unsubscribe from sections you don't care to see ....
If you decide to view some of them occasionally, you can specifically go to it.
Why would you get to decide for the whole Forum that PWF should be deleted?
Admin's site, admin's rules and decisions.


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

I don't go into the Machine Knitting section either, because I don't machine knit, and it doesn't interest me. But I would never complain about it, and ask for it to be removed. People have different interests. If politics isn't your thing, Don't discuss politics then.


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## Paulaross (Feb 3, 2016)

I have been reading complaints about this forum and the administrator for quite some time now and guess I'll add my comment. I joined this forum for knitting and crocheting. Having said that, this is a social media site, free to join. It is owned by the administrator and how they chooses to run the site is really their business, not ours. What sections they choose to have is their business not ours. Our option is to participate in those sections that hold our interest, or not participate. Complaining is a waste of time and effort.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Why are you reading what they have to say. No one is making you read their comments. I do not read many things on KP. I zip right past them. I am also an educated person and know that there will always be those who must voice their option even when there a very few who what to know what it is. No one is making me read them. I am capable of making that choice. You also are not being forced to read them. As far as I am concerned they do no exist.


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## Chesneys (Jan 30, 2015)

The PWG has 835 subscribed members, who obviously do not agree with your wish to tell them what they can do and say. It is not a new addition. If you don't like a particular section of KP, the very first line under the section title says Create New Topic followed by Unsubscribe From Section. Click on that and you will no longer see it on your Digest or your Home list. Scroll by any topic that has the section label. Problem resolved.


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## riversong200 (Apr 20, 2014)

I just read the digest (otherwise I'd be here all day) and only subscribe to the sections that interest me.


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

jmcret05 said:


> See the other posts that tell you how to unsubscribe from any section you do not wish to see.
> 
> With regard to you not watching any form of news coverage, that is also your choice. However, there are numerous current events that are important to all of us. If you don't look for the truth, how can you decide whether you and/or your families are being affected by decisions that being made and when, or if, you need to be involved? EX. The students from Parkland and across the nation who are trying to find a way to keep others safe.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


The PWF has been here since 2015 , that is THREE years!!!!!! , and now you complain???????


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## jvallas (Jul 16, 2013)

katanamama said:


> Separate political groups take away from the credibility and integrity of KP. It only emphasizes the division and exclusion of people who otherwise share a common interest.
> 
> IMHO constant negativity and complaining is exhausting, non productive and boring. It's way past time to bring back common courtesy and respect.
> 
> I prefer not knowing what others political affiliations are. My parents used to tell us never discuss politics or religion at parties and social gatherings and it's still good advice.


There's more than enough complaining and negativity and "I know the best way" within the knitting categories. Politics isn't the problem. Superiority and judgment is.


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## MaggieBelize (Aug 31, 2011)

books said:


> I don't go into the Machine Knitting section either, because I don't machine knit, and it doesn't interest me. But I would never complain about it, and ask for it to be removed. People have different interests. If politics isn't your thing, Don't discuss politics then.


Totally agree! If you don't want to chat politics, or dump cake recipes, or dumpster fires for that matter, just move along - it's as easy as changing the channel on your TV. But don't try to shut down those who do care about such things.


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## Sunny70 (Jul 25, 2014)

I agree too and I don’t need to be told that love has no labels and only be shown two girls! There are many different ways to love and I respect all except man child.


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## ragosto (Jun 25, 2013)

I read KP like I read a newspaper. I don't care for sports, so I put that aside. I look at the business section to see if there is anything interesting and read anything there that interests me. Sometimes I read the comics and sometimes not. On KP, I read almost everything on the Main and Picture sections. I look through the Chit Chat to see what subject are listed. I read what interests me. In my opinion, both the newspaper and the postings here there is something for just about everyone. We can read what interests us and others can read what interests them. Nobody should feel left out, or try to make others feel left out. Have a great day!
Roselyn


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## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

There are lots of forums not related to knitting, crocheting, or spinning on this website. It is up to the individual KP member to choose their topics of interest.

If you don't like the viewpoint or subject matter in a specific forum, unsubscribe from it. Then, you don't have to deal with it.

Just like real life, there are many different people here, from many different religions, countries, political stances. If you would avoid those people in real life, you can avoid them here as well.


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## Jiggs (Jan 21, 2016)

How boring would this world be if we all agreed, liked the same things and only talked about the same things.


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## Ellebelle (Oct 11, 2017)

bokemom said:


> It doesn't bother me that there is a section for that. There are a lot of sections on kp that I never see because they don't interest me. The problem lately is the mia administrator that doesn't keep things where they belong. When I first started kp if I posted in the wrong section I was sure to hear about it.


Happened to me too. It stung, and embarrassed me, but I learned quickly to be cognizant of where I put my posts.


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## Di Colo (Sep 20, 2017)

Right unsubscribe I don't do machine knitting,loom knitting, so I am not interested in reading that part of the forum. Hoever, many KPers do who am I to judge or to complain!


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Ermdog said:


> I'm with you. It's distressing enough just walking out the door every day. I stopped watching any form of news coverage long ago because of all the vitriol and wish for a place for relief from any form of that. My heart is weary of the increasing hatred and hate seeing it invade this site. Of course I will avoid that section, I just wish there weren't so many, so eager to turn KP into another place to spew the hatred. But then, I suppose if there is a section dedicated to that, perhaps it won't bleed out into other sections. I wonder. Well, here's hoping.


Perhaps you are not paying attention to what's going on in this country, if you decry the "vitriol" from news sources. Many people despise trump for many reasons. Singling out the PWF for negative attitudes about the president is odd, considering the mood of pretty much the entire country. This president and his administration are not popular, and since we have free speech in this country, we are all all allowed to voice our opinions.

If some people prefer to keep their blinders firmly attached to their heads, too bad. Events are unfolding now that may see trump disgraced officially. If that happens, will you close your eyes and refuse to acknowledge it even then?


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry but I found the OP Thread annoying. 

How dare you dictate what the owner of the this forum may or may not set up for the users to use or not use? 

We are not children we are adults with our own ability to decided for ourselves if we wish or not to take part in whatever part of the forum that is avialable to us.

As has been said if you don't like one of the sections do not visit it. Simple.

This is like any other forum it has different sections reflecting different aspects of the lives of the Users. 

No one is forcing you to read any section in fact no one is forcing anyone to read anything on this forum.

Can't you just be happy that the Owner has set this forum up so you can choose which parts you wish to join in with?

OP you are wrong and need to consider if this is the forum for you or not.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

Augustgran said:


> The PWF has been here since 2015 , that is THREE years!!!!!! , and now you complain???????


The PWF only appeared on my subscription a few months ago. Subsequently, I thought it was new and hence the complaint. I definitely don't want to inhibit the freedom of anyone to read what they please. I always believed it was a knitting forum, and that made me happy! I have unsubscribed to the PWF, now that I know I can do so.. thanks


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

M30Knitting said:


> The PWF only appeared on my subscription a few months ago. Subsequently, I thought it was new and hence the complaint. I definitely don't want to inhibit the freedom of anyone to read what they please. I always believed it was a knitting forum, and that made me happy! I have unsubscribed to the PWF, now that I know I can do so.. thanks


I'm glad you found an acceptable solution, and I'm glad you are staying on KP.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

I have not singled them out. Merely wonder why a political group is included in the forum. I read 3 newspapers every day and don’t believe this forum can add anything to that. I joined to read about crafts. Period!


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## mirl56 (Dec 20, 2011)

isn't it great that we all have the option to read the sections we like.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. ...


Just for kicks, go look in your Sent PMs and see if Admin has even _read_ your message. Personally, there are several I've sent since January, not one of which has been read.

Admin is not doing the administering of this site as it was done before Christmas 2017.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

Aisles said:


> Sorry but I found the OP Thread annoying.
> 
> How dare you dictate what the owner of the this forum may or may not set up for the users to use or not use?
> 
> ...


If you read my message, you might understand that I believe in free speech & freedom of the press. But this forum is called KNITTING PARADISE, and that's why I joined. How would you like to subscribe to Nature Magazine and find articles about auto mechanics! If this forum wants to change its main goal, it should say so and not try to mimic Reddit where anyone can get on and talk about any subject they want.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

M30Knitting said:


> If you read my message, you might understand that I believe in free speech & freedom of the press. But this forum is called KNITTING PARADISE, and that's why I joined. How would you like to subscribe to Nature Magazine and find articles about auto mechanics! If this forum wants to change its main goal, it should say so and not try to mimic Reddit where anyone can get on and talk about any subject they want.


The Forum is owned by the owner and he can do whatever he wants with it. He could decide to close it tomorrow for all we know, he can add or remove any part of it if he so wishes, he can change it's name if he so wishes. He can banned any one he wants at anytime with no come back from any of us.

If he wants it to 'mimic' anything that's up to him. It is not your forum or my forum or our forum it is the Owners forum and we sign up to his rules when we use it.

Did you look around the forum before signing up to see if it was right for you. It is never good form to join an open forum then complain you did not know it was more than knitting. This is a free forum.

We are not paying for a magazine subscription. If we were I'm sure we would all take some time out to check out if it was the type of magazine we wanted to subscribe too.

I hope you enjoy the bits you want and simply ignore those that are not to your taste.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

It has not been read


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> It has not been read


As I suspected.

May I suggest that you simply unsubscribe from whichever sections do _not_ interest you? It's not difficult. Just go to: http://www.knittingparadise.com/all-section-list, and click on the "Unsubscribe" link next to them. Personally, I'm only subscribed to Main, and - for the most part - it's all about things yarny.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Aisles said:


> The Forum is owned by the owner and he can do whatever he wants with it. He could decide to close it tomorrow for all we know, he can add or remove any part of it if he so wishes, he can change it's name if he so wishes. He can banned any one he wants at anytime with no come back from any of us.
> 
> If he wants it to 'mimic' anything that's up to him. It is not your forum or my forum or our forum it is the Owners forum and we sign up to his rules when we use it.
> 
> ...


Perfectly stated! :sm24:


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Perfectly stated! :sm24:


Thank you Jessica

I worry I might be coming over too hard I hope not as it's not my intent.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Thank you Jessica
> 
> I worry I might be coming over too hard I hope not as it's not my intent.


The old saw about not looking a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.

No, I don't think you're coming over too hard.

For those who prefer strictly governed, no off topic groups, there are other places than KP. I may still be on the books as belonging to the KnitList, CrochetPartners,  the Crochetlist, and a dozen or more others, but I haven't been active on _any_ of them - since I discovered KP.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> The old saw about not looking a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.
> 
> No, I don't think you're coming over to hard.
> 
> For those who prefer strictly governed, no off topic groups, there are other places than KP. I may still be on the books as belonging to the KnitList, CrochetPartners,  the Crochetlist, and a dozen or more others, but I haven't been active on _any_ of them - since I discovered KP.


I've not heard of them and I clicked them and they asked me to sign into yahoo

I do belong to couple of group on googleplus and I do still belong to another knitting forum however I can no longer post photo's as it require 3rd party hosting and photobucket has gone to the dogs.

I only come here now and the craft forum I'm part of the admin team on.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Jessica-Jean said:


> The old saw about not looking a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.
> 
> No, I don't think you're coming over to hard.
> 
> For those who prefer strictly governed, no off topic groups, there are other places than KP. I may still be on the books as belonging to the KnitList, CrochetPartners,  the Crochetlist, and a dozen or more others, but I haven't been active on _any_ of them - since I discovered KP.


The problem, if one considers it a problem, is that we do more than simply post comments. Many times, the comments become part of a real conversation, and like actual face-to-face conversations, can veer off into other subjects. The conversations are about what concerns us, whether good or bad, and sometimes a topic can stray into many subjects, often having little or nothing to do with the original post! The conversations with my face-to-face friends are the same. Give us enough time, and every subject under the sun comes into our conversations! And that's fine with me, as long as everyone remains civilized.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Aisles said:


> I've not heard of them and I clicked them and they asked me to sign into yahoo
> 
> I do belong to couple of group on googleplus and I do still belong to another knitting forum however I can no longer post photo's as it require 3rd party hosting and photobucket has gone to the dogs.
> 
> I only come here now and the craft forum I'm part of the admin team on.


Sorry. Until KP, 99% of my online time was on assorted Yahoo Groups ... after they either joined or was assimilated by Yahoo. At one time, Crochet Partners had its own domain name and e-mail addresses. The KnitList was, so far as I know, the oldest of the lot, having begun as a bulletin board - long before I got online in the late 90s. https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/sources/knitlist/patterns


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## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

jvallas said:


> In a way it really _isn't_ a knitting/ crochet forum. It's got all kinds of other things. If the problem is that it's called *knitting* paradise, well then we need to outlaw crochet and "other craft." along with everything else that's non-knitting.
> 
> I'd say we need a section called "Things to whine about."


If you do not like us on KP, unsubscribe from all of the sections.
There are many nice people here who like discussing things other than knitting and crocheting. They even let me talk about my cross stitch projects (which I do better than knitting or crocheting) and our dog, Naughty Baron.

Most of the political views are in the attic, progressive women's forum and solarium and USUALLY do not appear in the main section.

KP is a group of international friends.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

I don't subscribe to that section. That way when I go to KP and click on "newest topics", none of those topics show because they are the the section that I do not subscribe to and do not wish to see. Very easy to do.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

Lisa BB said:


> If you do not like us on KP, unsubscribe from all of the sections.
> There are many nice people here who like discussing things other than knitting and crocheting. They even let me talk about my cross stitch projects (which I do better than knitting or crocheting) and our dog, Naughty Baron.
> 
> Most of the political views are in the attic, progressive women's forum and solarium and USUALLY do not appear in the main section.
> ...


Who ever said I didn't like you or various topics? Not me. I simply objected to a political topic on an otherwise knitting, crocheting, cooking, sewing, and other crafty topics, including cross stitch. I also love to needlepoint and would love to share my experience with that. There's some very defensive people here who object to my free speech rights! What's up with that?


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## Augustgran (Apr 16, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> Who ever said I didn't like you or various topics? Not me. I simply objected to a political topic on an otherwise knitting, crocheting, cooking, sewing, and other crafty topics, including cross stitch. I also love to needlepoint and would love to share my experience with that. There's some very defensive people here who object to my free speech rights! What's up with that?


No one is objecting to free speech. Your wanting the PFW because YOU don't like it is.
As well as advocating censorship because YOU don't care for the subject contained there.
Btw , this is a free forum and the old saying "you get what you pay for" applies here as well.
Did you ask for the solarium to be deleted?
It is also a very conservative political leaning section.


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> If you read my message, you might understand that I believe in free speech & freedom of the press. But this forum is called KNITTING PARADISE, and that's why I joined. How would you like to subscribe to Nature Magazine and find articles about auto mechanics! If this forum wants to change its main goal, it should say so and not try to mimic Reddit where anyone can get on and talk about any subject they want.


You started out the post with a negative attitude about a free space. The owner of the forum pays for the 'space' with ads and it is a much kinder venue than most sites who are basically 'click bait'. If you look at other 'knitting' forums, they are not as much of as a community as KP. Even Ravelry forums are more specific and much harder to follow along.

This is also an international forum and it gives us an opportunity to connect with those with similar interests from all over. If you truly believe in free speech and are educated and conservative, then you should also believe that any discussion is valuable and should not be stifled. If your objection to the PWF is that it is primarily liberal thinkers, you may like the Solarium, or the Attic more.

We have certainly exhausted this discussion and the general consensus seems to be that anyone who doesn't like any section of KP should just unsubscribe and it will not appear for you. Should you want to join in a discussion on PWF, please do so.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

M30Knitting said:


> Who ever said I didn't like you or various topics? Not me. I simply objected to a political topic on an otherwise knitting, crocheting, cooking, sewing, and other crafty topics, including cross stitch. I also love to needlepoint and would love to share my experience with that. There's some very defensive people here who object to my free speech rights! What's up with that?


Really mmm seems you are detrimmed to deny others the use of parts of the forum that you have deemed not to be acceptable. That is censorship. If you don't like it use your right to either leave or ignore the parts you don't like. Don't force your opinions on others and go demanding to the owner that those part YOU have decided should not be allowed be removed and start a thread moaning about how you think they should removed.

I'm fed up with your it's my free speech well here's my free speech, 'sling your hook if you don't like it here or settle down and be thankfull there is a forum.'

Stop being that ungrateful child.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Sorry everyone I just reached the end of my patience with this user. 

Just a bit fed up with people coming onto the forum and telling us what should be allowed and what should be removed when if they'd bothered to read before hand they would have know what was on the forum and could have avoided any part they didn't feel was for them. 

I also get very fed up with some Americans who say it's my free speech rights in order to censer others. That is not right.


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## M30Knitting (Aug 9, 2012)

Aisles said:


> Really mmm seems you are detrimmed to deny others the use of parts of the forum that you have deemed not to be acceptable. That is censorship. If you don't like it use your right to either leave or ignore the parts you don't like. Don't force your opinions on others and go demanding to the owner that those part YOU have decided should not be allowed be removed and start a thread moaning about how you think they should removed.
> 
> I'm fed up with your it's my free speech well here's my free speech, 'sling your hook if you don't like it here or settle down and be thankfull there is a forum.'
> 
> Stop being that ungrateful child.


Again, I'm not trying to deny anyone anything! And, I never asked it to be removed. I'm disappointed it's there at all for all the reasons I've mentioned. Now that I know I can unsubscribe to that topic, I have done so. I might add it's disappointing to see how my comments have elicited such anger and name calling. Is this an example of acceptance. Where's the love?


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> Again, I'm not trying to deny anyone anything! And, I never asked it to be removed. I'm disappointed it's there at all for all the reasons I've mentioned. Now that I know I can unsubscribe to that topic, I have done so. I might add it's disappointing to see how my comments have elicited such anger and name calling. Is this an example of acceptance. Where's the love?


I think I've read every response and do not remember anyone calling you, or anyone, a name. Please elaborate.

That you have been a member for so long, and PWF and many other sections have been around for a long time, it is curious that you are now 'surprised' that KP is not living up to your idea of a knitting forum. Please remember that it is named Knitting Paradise but it is not just knitting. It is knitting, crocheting, other crafts, chit chat, recipes, instructional classes, pictures of proud accomplishments, classifieds, pattern resources, and more. Yarn Paradise is not just yarn. You take the parts you like and leave the rest for someone else. No problem.

Lastly, the Forum rules: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-1-1.html


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Aisles said:


> ... *I also get very fed up with some Americans who say it's my free speech rights in order to censor others.* That is not right.


I do too, and I'm an American.


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> Again, Iâm not trying to deny anyone anything! And, I never asked it to be removed. Iâm disappointed itâs there at all for all the reasons Iâve mentioned. Now that I know I can unsubscribe to that topic, I have done so. I might add itâs disappointing to see how my comments have elicited such anger and name calling. Is this an example of acceptance. Whereâs the love?


This whole thread is kind of strange to me. I just re-read your note to Admin and it sure sounds like you wanted the section removed. What kind of response were you hoping for from Admin?

Your next post seems to say you didn't realize you could avoid that section, but you know now and have unsubscribed. A simple mistake; problem resolved.

But on and on it goes. In general, I think many humans have very short fuses these days. It is understandable

Take the good. Avoid the bad. It's getting harder to do, but the good far outweighs the bad here on KP.

Oh, and the love? Here it is for me. This is what I am working on today.

Peace all!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mea said:


> ... Oh, and the love? Here it is for me. This is what I am working on today.
> 
> Peace all!


It's beautiful!!! By machine or by hand? Either way, it looks like a _lot_ of work. Kudos!


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> It's beautiful!!! By machine or by hand? Either way, it looks like a _lot_ of work. Kudos!


Thank you! But that is the pattern picture I posted. Here is my WIP. I have been wanting to make this for a long time and finally started last week. So far so good. It is not as bad as I thought it would be :sm01:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mea said:


> Thank you! But that is the pattern picture I posted. Here is my WIP. I have been wanting to make this for a long time and finally started last week. So far so good. It is not as bad as I thought it would be :sm01:


It's looking good. Can you say where one might find the pattern?


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## Ellebelle (Oct 11, 2017)

Yipeee! We're back to knitting!


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Ellebelle said:


> Yipeee! We're back to knitting!


Indeed I'm watching Fast and Furious 7 and knitting. Thing is this scrap yarn mitre corner blanket is getting a wee bit heavy and making me rather hot.


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## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

M30Knitting said:


> I have not singled them out. Merely wonder why a political group is included in the forum. I read 3 newspapers every day and don't believe this forum can add anything to that. I joined to read about crafts. Period!


I agree with you and that is why the OP should have posted this in the section called the "Attic."


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> It's looking good. Can you say where one might find the pattern?


Yes, I will try to find info when I return home. It took a lot to hunt this pattern down. If I recall correctly, it was only available in a book...a pricey book I was not willing to buy, but eventually I got it from a library.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

mea said:


> This whole thread is kind of strange to me. I just re-read your note to Admin and it sure sounds like you wanted the section removed. What kind of response were you hoping for from Admin?
> 
> Your next post seems to say you didn't realize you could avoid that section, but you know now and have unsubscribed. A simple mistake; problem resolved.
> 
> ...


Hey, I gave her some love a couple pages back. For the same reason and in the same spirit as your second paragraph. And I'll give it again. I'm glad OP found a solution and I'm glad she is staying.

OP, I appreciate your open mind and I'm looking forward to seeing what you are up to.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

Evie RM said:


> I agree with you and that is why the OP should have posted this in the section called the "Attic."


But she didn't and we had a good discussion, people learned about other sections and features of KP, and nobody died of it.


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> It's looking good. Can you say where one might find the pattern?


Found it! https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/all-you-knit-is-love-2


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## fortunate1 (Dec 13, 2014)

Wow, thanks for the link to the pillow! It is in my library, can't wait to see yours!


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## AuntyAmy (Feb 12, 2018)

jvallas said:


> There's more than enough complaining and negativity and "I know the best way" within the knitting categories. Politics isn't the problem. Superiority and judgment is.


 :sm24:


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## Cookiecat (Jan 20, 2014)

Yes, it's been around a long time!! Fortunately KP gives us all a choice to subscribe to individual groups as well as the digest...If a particular section irritates, one doesn't have to subscribe...When I first joined I checked out most all of the groups and some I don't subscribe to, for the sake of my blood pressure, LOL


painthoss said:


> When you say, 'has been added' do you mean you just ran across it recently? Because it has been a part of KP ever since I joined.
> 
> There is a conservative section also. The Solarium is not branded as a conservative section, but the KP members who like to hang out there are almost entirely very conservative in perspective, and are for the most part Trump supporters.
> 
> ...


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## Cookiecat (Jan 20, 2014)

Now THIS is a perfect example of a political post. Perhaps it would be welcomed in 1 or 2 sections that are for that purpose. And it contains disparagement of people with different views.


Beachgirl1000 said:


> Perhaps you are not paying attention to what's going on in this country, if you decry the "vitriol" from news sources. Many people despise trump for many reasons. Singling out the PWF for negative attitudes about the president is odd, considering the mood of pretty much the entire country. This president and his administration are not popular, and since we have free speech in this country, we are all all allowed to voice our opinions.
> 
> If some people prefer to keep their blinders firmly attached to their heads, too bad. Events are unfolding now that may see trump disgraced officially. If that happens, will you close your eyes and refuse to acknowledge it even then?


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## KNITTEN NANA (Apr 2, 2011)

When I joined KP it was my go to place to be with people who enjoyed knitting and crocheting and other crafts. That's what it should be. There are too many "right fighters" here they will rake you over the coals if you disagree with them. Talk about what your knitting, talk about your kids and grandkids, show us your finished project ask questions about a pattern problem. Keep your political opinions to yourself. I know someone will make a stink about what I said, but I don't care and will not respond to the negative comments. If you want a fight join another group.


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## KNITTEN NANA (Apr 2, 2011)

katanamama said:


> Separate political groups take away from the credibility and integrity of KP. It only emphasizes the division and exclusion of people who otherwise share a common interest.
> 
> IMHO constant negativity and complaining is exhausting, non productive and boring. It's way past time to bring back common courtesy and respect.
> 
> I prefer not knowing what others political affiliations are. My parents used to tell us never discuss politics or religion at parties and social gatherings and it's still good advice.


I agree with you 100% my grandmother said the same thing about discussing politics too. She always said thats why there is a curtin in voting booths.


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## PatK27 (Oct 13, 2016)

Don't like it. Don't read it. 
I love the knitting areas, other crafts and chit chat. I sometimes venture into other areas. Sometimes I like what,I read, others not so much. I am not forced to read it and neither are you. Don't subscribe to it.


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## Caroline19 (Jun 6, 2011)

We are so blessed in Canada and the US and other countries as well, to have freedom of speech and freedom of choice. Sadly there are many countries that dont. When I joined here it was explained to me that I had a choice on what topics I can tap into and I did just that. I also have the freedom to join in on those topics and give my opinion or advice if requested. I choose to have 5 topics that interest me and I look forward every day to reading them. It's no different than chosen a channel on TV. I have the freedom to watch whatever I want. I change the channel when the news comes on because I am tired of hearing about the political goings on in the White House and so I move on to other programs. At the same time I wish to be informed so that when I'm with my friends and politics is discussed I have the freedom to join in or not. I suggest you pick the topics that really do interest you and ignore the rest. You have the freedom to do just that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Enjoy what you wish and allow others the same courtesy.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> *Enjoy what you wish and allow others the same courtesy.*


Yes!!!

Sadly though, there will always be those who just can't leave well enough alone and who will kvetch just for the sake of kvetching.


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## betty boivin (Sep 12, 2012)

As jm said!


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## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

I totally agree. I also want to add that anyone pm me with other subject than knitting I DO NOT read. I love this site for the enjoyment of communicating with all you nice crafters


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Knitting Paradise has had a diversity of opinions in the General Chit Chit Chat section for years, with the more contentious topics and responses moved to areas like the Attic. Over the years it has added other non-knitting sections such as Spinning and Weaving, Game Cafe and Recipes etc, which many other members have no interest in. Moreover, you can remove the sections you don't wish to see in your profile, or you can just simply ignore the topic, or unwatch it if you have responded to it initially. You can just receive craft related posts if you wish. You can even block people that you know are going to be contentious.

Part of the problem recently is that Admin has not exercised its authority on the forum, particularly by allowing spammers to post, or by removing topics to appropriate sections. Your post is typical of what has been happening. It should not be in the Main section; it should be in General Chit Chat. While I agree with you about the divisive tone and register of the public discourse in the last decade or so, I do not think the answer is to insist that voices that you disapprove of are not allowed to air. That is what happens in modern political conventions because the candidate is preaching to the choir and dissenting voices are not permitted and they will not be allowed in the forum, or if they do get in, they will be removed. It is hypocritical and against the whole philosophy of free speech, and is fairly typical of the attempts by various groups in the last few years to shut down voices they do not approve of. The irony is, whether or not one approves of the current incumbent of the White House, it is very clear that much of his support has been garnered from people who have felt that their voices and concerns have been ignored.

In a democratic system, which I believe Knitting Paradise is, if there is no interest, it will simply disappear.


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## chickenmissie (Mar 11, 2017)

I agree, this is not a place for it. I feel it's a divide to have this group added. Last time I checked knitting has nothing to do with any politacal opinions or ideals.


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## JoLink (Oct 17, 2016)

Totally agree, many times over!!


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## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

chickenmissie said:


> I agree, this is not a place for it. I feel it's a divide to have this group added. Last time I checked knitting has nothing to do with any politacal opinions or ideals.


Oh no! Someone wants to start the whole thing over! ARRRGGGHHHHHH!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Celt Knitter said:


> Knitting Paradise has had a diversity of opinions in the General Chit Chit Chat section for years, with the more contentious topics and responses moved to areas like the Attic. Over the years it has added other non-knitting sections such as Spinning and Weaving, Game Cafe and Recipes etc, which many other members have no interest in. Moreover, you can remove the sections you don't wish to see in your profile, or you can just simply ignore the topic, or unwatch it if you have responded to it initially. You can just receive craft related posts if you wish. You can even block people that you know are going to be contentious.
> 
> Part of the problem recently is that Admin has not exercised its authority on the forum, particularly by allowing spammers to post, or by removing topics to appropriate sections. Your post is typical of what has been happening. It should not be in the Main section; it should be in General Chit Chat. While I agree with you about the divisive tone and register of the public discourse in the last decade or so, I do not think the answer is to insist that voices that you disapprove of are not allowed to air. That is what happens in modern political conventions because the candidate is preaching to the choir and dissenting voices are not permitted and they will not be allowed in the forum, or if they do get in, they will be removed. It is hypocritical and against the whole philosophy of free speech, and is fairly typical of the attempts by various groups in the last few years to shut down voices they do not approve of. The irony is, whether or not one approves of the current incumbent of the White House, it is very clear that much of his support has been garnered from people who have felt that their voices and concerns have been ignored.
> 
> In a democratic system, which I believe Knitting Paradise is, if there is no interest, it will simply disappear.


Very well stated, but I fear it's a wasted effort.


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## mperrone (Mar 14, 2013)

AdeleRM said:


> So, don't subscribe to it!


I agree. Don't read it!


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## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

Hey Jessica Jean - there are usually some discussions about joining yarn instead of knotting it and I have always put my two cents in saying I use the weavers knot....but I got to fiddling the other day and picked up my felting needle.....after twining the unraveled ends together, I gave them a workout with the felting needle. I was very pleased with the result. Now only time will tell. LOL It even worked with acrylic. Not as fast as the knot, but is faster for me than any other method and seemed strong. I am thinking it can only get stronger with washing.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

Sounds good, agree.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Shylinn said:


> Hey Jessica Jean - there are usually some discussions about joining yarn instead of knotting it and I have always put my two cents in saying I use the weavers knot....but I got to fiddling the other day and picked up my felting needle.....after twining the unraveled ends together, I gave them a workout with the felting needle. I was very pleased with the result. Now only time will tell. LOL It even worked with acrylic. Not as fast as the knot, but is faster for me than any other method and seemed strong. I am thinking it can only get stronger with washing.


I think someone else mentioned that some time ago, but I don't often work with wool, don't have a felting needle, and am fearful of accidentally stabbing myself with one were I to get one. (How's _that_ for a run-on sentence?! :sm15: )


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## susanmjackson (Feb 7, 2011)

bokemom said:


> It doesn't bother me that there is a section for that. There are a lot of sections on kp that I never see because they don't interest me. The problem lately is the mia administrator that doesn't keep things where they belong. When I first started kp if I posted in the wrong section I was sure to hear about it.


I agree with you, many sections here that are not fiber related, I just don't go to them.


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## nankat (Oct 17, 2012)

I really do not see the difference between this so called progressive forum to what is included in the attic. I ignore, usually, both.


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## kscott23 (Apr 4, 2012)

Jessica-Jean said:


> The old saw about not looking a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.
> 
> No, I don't think you're coming over too hard.
> 
> For those who prefer strictly governed, no off topic groups, there are other places than KP. I may still be on the books as belonging to the KnitList, CrochetPartners,  the Crochetlist, and a dozen or more others, but I haven't been active on _any_ of them - since I discovered KP.


Thank You Jessica-Jean! and ALL the voices on this Forum... I'm sure we are all capable of clicking to a different section or page or even a different site if a difference of opinion is a problem for us...


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## GranMaLin (Jan 28, 2018)

I haven't been here very long but have found that I enjoy the escape KP offers me. I love reading others' posts especially when someone is looking for help with a pattern or even looking for a pattern and nearly everyone offers assistance (great group of sharing people here!!:sm24: :sm24 I occasionally 'heard' about other sections that weren't showing on my list so decided to investigate and added them to my list of topics. Honestly, I couldn't believe some of the posts I read - really disturbing! :sm25: I quickly removed the topics and vowed to stay away from them. I definitely don't need that anger and hatred in my life!


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## cathy73 (Apr 8, 2013)

I agree with you. I get so tired of politics and the insanity that is our country right now. This was the nice place I visit every morning to relax and read and enjoy talking with people about knitting and crochet. There's enough ugliness out there. Let this be an oasis of people coming together with the common bond of crafting.


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## mammadf (Sep 15, 2016)

Sorry, but I don't see the problem. I can't find anything on this site about Progressive Womens Group except for your post. Although I agree that politics should be left out of this forum, I also think it is easy enough to ignore or not subscribe to posts you don't like. Relax and enjoy the parts you do like.


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## judysbg42 (Jul 10, 2016)

I agree, this is a craft forum, keep politics out of it!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

nankat said:


> I really do not see the difference between this so called progressive forum to what is included in the attic. I ignore, usually, both.


While the topics may be the same, the people aren't always.

*The Attic* is a free-for-all, i.e. anyone can post on any topic - assuming the creator of the topic (the OP) doesn't have the would-be poster on her 'ignore' list.

*The Progressive Women's Group* however is a "managed section". That means that the moderators of that group can (and _do_) deny access to posters they deem more disruptive than not.

*The Solarium* is another "managed section". Having at one time been denied access to it by its moderators, I simply don't bother reading there, even though my access has been restored.

There are many sections to KP. Some are more popular than others, but each serves a purpose.


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## Kadoonya (Nov 4, 2015)

We all skip sections and topics we don’t enjoy or that don’t interest us. Someone likes them so I don’t see any reason to remove them unless they are inappropriate content, such as lewd, bullying or promote violence or racism.


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## Kadoonya (Nov 4, 2015)

This topic is in the wrong section, by the way.


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## charlipayne48 (Oct 2, 2017)

as frustrating as it is, not letting the womens group on the site would probably be another "freedom of speech" problem for KP. It is sad but true "too much freedom" can lead to more problems than not" I understand your frustration and I agree, but since they will not respond .. seems that may be the answer.

Just another KP'er who enjoys the site.


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## RobbiD (Nov 13, 2012)

M30Knitting said:


> Who ever said I didn't like you or various topics? Not me. I simply objected to a political topic on an otherwise knitting, crocheting, cooking, sewing, and other crafty topics, including cross stitch. I also love to needlepoint and would love to share my experience with that. *There's some very defensive people here who object to my free speech rights! What's up with that?*


Maybe because you seem intent on removing the free speech rights of others. If you want your rights to be respected, you must respect those same rights for others. You implied in your original post that you are better than others  "I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen,", so I gather you think that your opinion should carry more weight than anyone else's. Freedom of speech is not a right that is only granted to a select few. If you dish it, be prepared to take it.


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## snowmannut (Apr 17, 2014)

I agree NO POLIICS


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## snowmannut (Apr 17, 2014)

I don't believe that is what she meant She also said she didn't want to see a place to post conservative views also


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## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

I agree...


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Well this forum isn't much different from other forums on the internet. 
It's been set up by the owner 
Set up with defined sections or sub forums
Free to the user.
Ability of every user to decide which areas they wish to view and comment in
Abilty for every user to use an ignore feature.

Yet we still get a number of users who do nothing but complain and gripe.

Let me tell you I belong to a Car Forum which is mainly men and like here it has lots of off topic ie non car related areas.

Even one that is entitled, 'What other hobbies/interests do you enjoy please share.'

And we have men showing off their knitting, painting, gardening, etc etc 

We have another section, 'What's in the News Today' where people are free to discuss the latest News items, political items

No one complains about the extra discussions they see it as getting to know each other better and when they have 
meetings at Car Show's, Race Days, Social and Charity Events, Local, National and International Events people feel they've really got to know other.

They are far more accepting than many on this forum who only want to say I don't like this section it should be removed. 

or I don't think this is ok for a knitting forum. 

Talk about a lot of spoilt entitled children we appear to have on this forum.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Well this forum isn't much different from other forums on the internet.
> It's been set up by the owner
> Set up with defined sections or sub forums
> Free to the user.
> ...


. :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't care if they have any kind of section. I subscribe to what I enjoy and do not subscribe to what I do not enjoy. Very simply. If conservative folks want a place to discuss whatever they discuss - have at it. It's not my cup of tea, so I don't join it. But I would not try to take it away from the folks who do enjoy it. Live and let live is my motto. We're all headed to the same place so we should help each other along the way. Just my humble two cents worth. Hope you all have a great day!


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## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

I don't care if they have any kind of section. I subscribe to what I enjoy and do not subscribe to what I do not enjoy. Very simply. If conservative folks want a place to discuss whatever they discuss - have at it. It's not my cup of tea, so I don't join it. But I would not try to take it away from the folks who do enjoy it. Live and let live is my motto. We're all headed to the same place so we should help each other along the way. Just my humble two cents worth. Hope you all have a great day!


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## LibraryGal (Apr 25, 2016)

Would be lovely to just share what unites us - our love of crafts.


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## korteruckmar (Dec 2, 2011)

MRSTLD said:


> I agree! Politics should stay out of KP!


Yup.


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## BarbaraL (Aug 23, 2011)

I totally agree. Trashing the President or anyone bespeaks volumes of the person doing the trashing and shows a heartless judgmental character. It brings us all down to that level and we are such a compassionate caring group. Poor guy is a total scapegoat for all the disgruntles of these people's lives and it is so demoralizing. How about the good in me looks for and finds the good in you, and helps foster that good, instead of trashing. Thank you for bringing this up.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

mirl56 said:


> It's easy enough to just stay out of that section if it doesn't interest you. I have no problem staying out of it and other sections. For instance, I don't subscribe to Loom Knitting as I have little interest in it.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:

Very well put. We all have this possibility, if we care to take it!! Its a bit like complaining about a TV program, and not changing the channel when it offends....

There are some who would rather complain.....

Have a great day

Andy


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## BarbaraL (Aug 23, 2011)

I love your comment, we are all headed to the same place so we should help each other. What a world that could be instead of the abuse of character assassination and finger pointing. I think it will take about 100 years, its in its infancy stages of awareness of such a concept. Thank you.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

That's it! Avoid progress wherever possible. 

You do NOT have to read it. 

Stop trying to make the world over in your own image.

Feelings hurt? Get over it. Mine are frayed to the edges because of the complacency that got us into this mess.


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## Frandelia (May 24, 2011)

No one is being forced to read a topic on this forum. If you don't like it, don't read it. Others may be interested in it.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

jvallas said:


> In a way it really _isn't_ a knitting/ crochet forum. It's got all kinds of other things. If the problem is that it's called *knitting* paradise, well then we need to outlaw crochet and "other craft." along with everything else that's non-knitting.
> 
> I'd say we need a section called "Things to whine about."


Your whole post is a very refreshing take, that I heartily agree with!! :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:

A very common sense approach.

Many, many thanks

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

MaggieBelize said:


> Totally agree! If you don't want to chat politics, or dump cake recipes, or dumpster fires for that matter, just move along - it's as easy as changing the channel on your TV. But don't try to shut down those who do care about such things.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Fan-Knit (Nov 10, 2015)

mkelley, 
I agree with you wholeheartedly.


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## JTM (Nov 18, 2012)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


There are many topics available on this forum... including some very Left leaning ones... having a Right leaning one is only fair. You do not have to read any topic that does not appeal to you. I rarely read Attic topics, because it does not represent my views. You have the right (and responsibility) to ignore those topics that bother you... be it politics, religion, death and/or taxes.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

Look the other way or don’t subscribe to sections you aren’t interested in.


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## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

jvallas said:


> I don't get what difference it makes if there's a section one doesn't enjoy. Just don't ever enter that section. For those of us who read from the site rather than the daily digest, we can just set our preferences to never show that category on our pages.


I know this section is there but I haven't subscribed to it. I don't see a problem with it being there for others who are interested.


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## victory (Jan 4, 2014)

Thanks for the information.


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

budasha said:


> I know this section is there but I haven't subscribed to it. I don't see a problem with it being there for others who are interested.


I didn't know about this section until the OP brought it to my attention! Entirely up to me whether I subscribe to it or not. Probably not, as I'm not much interested in politics and certainly not those of other countries!


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## Theresarose (Nov 7, 2016)

I agree 100%


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

LibraryGal said:


> Would be lovely to just share what unites us - our love of crafts.


And no one is stopping you from doing that. Subscribe to the sections you enjoy, and ignore the rest. See? Isn't that simple?


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## susandkline (Oct 26, 2015)

I agree with those who advise simply not reading messages that annoy you. My experience has been that I don't need to read very far to determine whether I wish to comment or not. Very easy.


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## PaulaSussexUK (Jul 6, 2014)

Like most folk I only subscribe to those areas that interest me. However, I can quite see that some KPers might well wish to discuss political, religious and other matters in a forum made up of people with whom they at least share some common interest even if it is knitting! They might feel less threatened and free to express their views than the more open social media.


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## skkp (Feb 13, 2011)

They must have escaped from the Attic.


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## notinkansas (Mar 1, 2014)

Nobody is forcing you to read that section. Just ignore it. I'm sure that the people who do read it don't appreciate your attempt at censorship of Knitting Paradise content.


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## Patrice B-Z (Dec 22, 2014)

maxjones said:


> I agree with mirl56, just ignore and stay away. I skip tons of topics here, because of time restraints.


This is the best way to enjoy this site. Matters not how "educated or professional" a person is, just skip subjects you don't like and continue to enjoy the best that this site can now provide. If I had to say, I agree, this is a "crafting" site not a political one, but easy enough to just skip what isn't of interest. Always remember to be kind and respectful.


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## notinkansas (Mar 1, 2014)

cathy73 said:


> I agree with you. I get so tired of politics and the insanity that is our country right now. This was the nice place I visit every morning to relax and read and enjoy talking with people about knitting and crochet. There's enough ugliness out there. Let this be an oasis of people coming together with the common bond of crafting.


This still is a 'nice place I visit every morning'. I read it every day. The recent negativity does not diminish all the good stuff that is here. Just ignore the bad stuff. I keep reading comments about the demise of this site because of the negativity in the political sections. I disagree. The shared information and projects are the core of this forum, and they are just as valuable now as they ever were. IMO.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

skkp said:


> They must have escaped from the Attic.


Only thecomplainers. Maybe they should have their own topic forum...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

It is important to speak out against injustice and corruption otherwise you are condoning it. Blame trump for your discontent with some sections on KP. Without him, KP would be paradise. 

PS. OP - You seem a bit controlling. No one likes to be controlled.


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## notinkansas (Mar 1, 2014)

mea said:


> Found it! https://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/all-you-knit-is-love-2


Looks like that book is not in English?

:sm03:


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## AuntKnitty (Apr 10, 2011)

painthoss said:


> When you say, 'has been added' do you mean you just ran across it recently? Because it has been a part of KP ever since I joined.
> 
> There is a conservative section also. The Solarium is not branded as a conservative section, but the KP members who like to hang out there are almost entirely very conservative in perspective, and are for the most part Trump supporters.
> 
> ...


Thank you painthoss...I was just going to post this information. I will reiterate, if you don't like it, don't read it. It's called freedom of choice. Exercise it.


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## Shylinn (Mar 19, 2014)

I thank admin for allowing me to unwatch a topic! Every time this one looks like it's going to wind down, someone starts it up again.....hmmmm - maybe that's intentional?


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## immunurse (May 2, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


For all the years I have been reading KP, there has been the Chit-Chat forum for all non-needlecraft posts. Then in the last couple of years we've also had the "Attic" and "Solarium" for political posts of both persuasions. I see nothing wrong with having them here. My daily digest doesn't include any that I don't wish to see. And I've never seen any objections, until today, for having a place for these subjects. In which section did you find the progressive subject?

I notice that your post is misplaced in the "Main" forum. Did you mean to put it somewhere else?


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## targa416 (Mar 26, 2017)

Why is this topic being discussed in the MAIN section?


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## Patian (May 10, 2011)

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Likewise, you can enjoy KP but you don't have to read the sections that aren't of interest to you. That's like saying you are a knitter but because you don't also crochet, that section should be eliminated so you don't have to read it. As others have said above, change your settings so the areas you don't like won't even show up when you sign in, easy peasy!


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## sheherazade (Dec 28, 2017)

jvallas said:


> I don't get what difference it makes if there's a section one doesn't enjoy. Just don't ever enter that section. For those of us who read from the site rather than the daily digest, we can just set our preferences to never show that category on our pages.


Couldn't have said it better!

:sm24: :sm24:


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

notinkansas said:


> Looks like that book is not in English?
> 
> :sm03:


Oops, sorry. I googled the author and posted what I saw with the pattern on Ravelry. Whatever book I finally tracked down was in English.


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

notinkansas said:


> This still is a 'nice place I visit every morning'. I read it every day. The recent negativity does not diminish all the good stuff that is here. Just ignore the bad stuff. I keep reading comments about the demise of this site because of the negativity in the political sections. I disagree. The shared information and projects are the core of this forum, and they are just as valuable now as they ever were. IMO.


Hear hear! I agree entirely.


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## jansews (Jan 27, 2015)

MRSTLD said:


> I agree! Politics should stay out of KP!


I agree.


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## ioneodi (Feb 16, 2015)

Voltaire, “I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.” Ione


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## dinnerontime (May 8, 2011)

AdeleRM said:


> So, don't subscribe to it!


I so agree.... I just want to knit!


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

notinkansas said:


> Looks like that book is not in English?
> 
> :sm03:


Me again, all. Sorry to keep interrupting this topic with.....knitting talk...but for those interested in the All You Knit is Love pattern, it can be found in the book "Making Cushions and Pillows" by Nina Granlund Sæther.


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## cattdages (Aug 3, 2011)

We all have the choice to look at posts or not. Personally, I don't look at anything with dolls, you may want to skip the political stuff. I don't think we have to try to control or regulate what people choose to post and discuss, we can just opt out.


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## charlieandrus (Aug 12, 2016)

mirl56 said:


> Nice effort to send a message to Admin. But I think we all realize by now that Admin isn't adminning at all.
> 
> It's easy enough to just stay out of that section if it doesn't interest you. I have no problem staying out of it and other sections. For instance, I don't subscribe to Loom Knitting as I have little interest in it.


Agreed. :sm24:


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

So just ignore that part of the forum.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

It's easy to avoid or opt out of a topic. After several pages of discussion on this particular topic, with many similar posts, I find that my interest has waned. Therefore, I will now "unwatch," and move on to other subjects. Easy. A fairly intelligent rhesus monkey can tap the "unwatch" button, so I know we all can do that as well.


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## triknitter (May 8, 2011)

Don't read what you don't want to read. If people are REALLY patriots, don't they believe in freedom of speech (regardless of whether it is conservative or progressive)? What I like about this site is that I can read what I want to read. If I don't like the topic, I CHOOSE not to read it.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

I look at many subjects, am subscribed to those that are entertaining or educational. 
I rarely respond to political or religious subjects because unless they are just informative, I don't want to argue here, no ones mind will be changed and it escalates into name calling when feelings get hurt.
I have challenged outright lying or woman put downs and been jumped on but by a poster that means nothing anyway in my world and others have been courteous even when disagreeing.
I don't fight with family or friends and neighbours that have different views, why would I waste my special time by arguing in cyberspace that hardly reaches the plateau of a normal relationship! 
Kudos to those that keep their temper, don't demean or sarcastically criticize when disagreeing!


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## carmicv (Mar 21, 2014)

I am rather pleased this topic came up. I didn't know about the different new sections since I joined. I most likely chose the sections I liked and never looked again. There is one on dogs and KALS etc. A whole new world out there. Ha ha.


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

This site has something for everyone. Just because you have found something you dislike does not give you the right to get rid of it or complain of its exsistence. Quit bitching and move on.


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## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

If you aren’t progressive don’t read anything in that topic. The Attic and some other topics were added to keep religious and political rants out of the rest of the forum. You can choose what topics to read and which to ignore. Your views should have been posted in one of those topics, not among the main topics because it has nothing to do with knitting or crochet. You just devalued yourself and your opinions by posting in the knitting and crocheting main section where you say you don’t want to see such topics. You are not as well-rounded as you seem to believe you are.


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## LinJurm (Aug 4, 2011)

I agree with you.


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## suzhuz (Jan 16, 2013)

Simple fix:. Don't subscribe to that particular forum.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


"I'm sure there are many other sites online that people can voice their political opinion."

So, what do you say about other sections on KP that are not for "discussing knitting and crafts"....
1. Game Cafe...there are plenty of other sites for games
2. Encouraging Words...there are plenty of other sites for inspirational messages
3. Happy Thoughts R Us...
4. Gone To The Dogs...
5. Book Club Discussion Group...
6. Paradise Recipes...
7. plus a few more....

What would you like to do with these? Get rid of them too? After all they do not have anything to do with knitting.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


I'm puzzled. The Progressive Women's Group has been on this forum for some time. Since it hasn't drawn general notice until now, it doesn't seem to me to be particularly intrusive. As always, with any part of the forum, simply not clicking on it seems to serve well. I'm always puzzled when anyone tries to initiate major changes in the format of a free forum, which is not set up to cater to a non-paying membership. I don't mean this in a snarky manner, but rather as a pointing out of some facts. I'm not aware of any voting rights on a forum where there is no paying membership. If I'm wrong on that, would you please provide examples?


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

jvallas said:


> I don't get what difference it makes if there's a section one doesn't enjoy. Just don't ever enter that section. For those of us who read from the site rather than the daily digest, we can just set our preferences to never show that category on our pages.


Exactly. These periodic attempts to control the content of someone else's forum are somewhat mind-boggling to me. What's so difficult about not looking? We use selective looking every day (don't look at the dust bunnies in the corner until another day, don't stare at the people who are different from ourselves, etc.). I don't know of anyone who is successful in ordering the world, or even his/her own surroundings, entirely to one's liking. Even if one went to the extent of setting up one's own forum I doubt it would be perfect at all times. We are free to feel however we wish and state/own those feelings, but we are not free to predetermine the feelings of anyone else.


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## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


.

With all due respect, it's quite easy to unsubscribe to that forum, as with the many other forums which may not be of interest to you. I find the PWF helps fill out my understanding of current affairs in your country; I really would be very sorry to see it or the Solarium being removed.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

jvallas said:


> In a way it really _isn't_ a knitting/ crochet forum. It's got all kinds of other things. If the problem is that it's called *knitting* paradise, well then we need to outlaw crochet and "other craft." along with everything else that's non-knitting.
> 
> I'd say we need a section called "Things to whine about."


;~D!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

smasha12 said:


> I have learned to avoid sections that are one-sided, one way or the other. I don't have anyone on ignore, but I do know whose posts will irritate me (for a variety of reasons) and just skip those too. They don't know and it saves me from bad moods or high blood pressure!


I can see you have learned how to win at this game. Good for you.


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## onegrannygoose (May 13, 2011)

You may opt out of the subscription of any part of the forum. Just remove your subscription for that section and you will never see it again. But please don't try to dictate to others who for what ever reason like different sectons than you do.


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## winfree (Jun 28, 2011)

This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

knit4ES said:


> And the OP posted this in the wrong section... this post is not about knitting and crocheting.
> As others have said, unsubscribe from sections you don't care to see ....
> If you decide to view some of them occasionally, you can specifically go to it.
> Why would you get to decide for the whole Forum that PWF should be deleted?
> Admin's site, admin's rules and decisions.


That's a good call. I missed the obvious; OP's kind of a don't do as I do, do as I say thing. I still like to think that there is room for everyone here while being ever mindful of who actually owns the forum. Singling out one group among many doesn't seem appropriate on the part of members.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Paulaross said:


> I have been reading complaints about this forum and the administrator for quite some time now and guess I'll add my comment. I joined this forum for knitting and crocheting. Having said that, this is a social media site, free to join. It is owned by the administrator and how they chooses to run the site is really their business, not ours. What sections they choose to have is their business not ours. Our option is to participate in those sections that hold our interest, or not participate. Complaining is a waste of time and effort.


Well stated.


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## Vwjoan (Mar 6, 2016)

Ditto


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Aisles said:


> The Forum is owned by the owner and he can do whatever he wants with it. He could decide to close it tomorrow for all we know, he can add or remove any part of it if he so wishes, he can change it's name if he so wishes. He can banned any one he wants at anytime with no come back from any of us.
> 
> If he wants it to 'mimic' anything that's up to him. It is not your forum or my forum or our forum it is the Owners forum and we sign up to his rules when we use it.
> 
> ...


Now that you mention the rules, once again I have to wonder how many have ever read them instead of making their own assumptions about this forum and its purpose. I think it behooves all of us to read them when we join and periodically thereafter, since they do change occasionally. You're right on, this is just one of my favorite addendums ;~D.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

You say that you can get all the political news from your news feed...and that's great. But some of us like to have a way to chat and share our views. As others have pointed out, just unsubscribe from any sections that you don't want to associate with. It may be called "Knitting Paradise" but it's not all about just knitting.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Lisa BB said:


> If you do not like us on KP, unsubscribe from all of the sections.
> There are many nice people here who like discussing things other than knitting and crocheting. They even let me talk about my cross stitch projects (which I do better than knitting or crocheting) and our dog, Naughty Baron.
> 
> Most of the political views are in the attic, progressive women's forum and solarium and USUALLY do not appear in the main section.
> ...


Thank you for your last sentence, something I think should be kept in mind at all times by all members. That's the way it is and a huge part of its charm IMO.


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## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

winfree said:


> This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


Yes it is a knit crochet forum. But there are other areas of interest too. It is not right to stifle PWF's freedom of speech(or anyone elses) because you do not like what is said. Do not subscribe to it. Do you want the other political sites free speech stifled?

There are many areas on KP that usually don't do the political stuff.

LBB


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Shylinn said:


> I thank admin for allowing me to unwatch a topic! Every time this one looks like it's going to wind down, someone starts it up again.....hmmmm - maybe that's intentional?


hmmmm.....maybe intentional?? THINK.

Did you possibly even think that people come on here, read the first page or two or three, etc. and then type a response? This new response gets put at the end of all the post.... so, it starts up again. Most don't read ALL the pages before responding.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Evie RM said:


> I agree with you and that is why the OP should have posted this in the section called the "Attic."


I'm sorry you think the Attic is exclusively political. You'd probably be amazed at the other topics discussed there, many of them having to do far more with social issues and other areas of mostly non-crafting parts of life, which make it more realistic as a slice of life in general than being limited to crafting and/or politics only.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Celt Knitter said:


> Knitting Paradise has had a diversity of opinions in the General Chit Chit Chat section for years, with the more contentious topics and responses moved to areas like the Attic. Over the years it has added other non-knitting sections such as Spinning and Weaving, Game Cafe and Recipes etc, which many other members have no interest in. Moreover, you can remove the sections you don't wish to see in your profile, or you can just simply ignore the topic, or unwatch it if you have responded to it initially. You can just receive craft related posts if you wish. You can even block people that you know are going to be contentious.
> 
> Part of the problem recently is that Admin has not exercised its authority on the forum, particularly by allowing spammers to post, or by removing topics to appropriate sections. Your post is typical of what has been happening. It should not be in the Main section; it should be in General Chit Chat. While I agree with you about the divisive tone and register of the public discourse in the last decade or so, I do not think the answer is to insist that voices that you disapprove of are not allowed to air. That is what happens in modern political conventions because the candidate is preaching to the choir and dissenting voices are not permitted and they will not be allowed in the forum, or if they do get in, they will be removed. It is hypocritical and against the whole philosophy of free speech, and is fairly typical of the attempts by various groups in the last few years to shut down voices they do not approve of. The irony is, whether or not one approves of the current incumbent of the White House, it is very clear that much of his support has been garnered from people who have felt that their voices and concerns have been ignored.
> 
> In a democratic system, which I believe Knitting Paradise is, if there is no interest, it will simply disappear.


Thank you for your post; it's fair, realistic, and well stated.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Very well stated, but I fear it's a wasted effort.


Ah, there's where we differ. I don't think any well-intentioned effort is wasted :~).


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## Damiano (Nov 15, 2016)

Where is a MEN'S group on here?


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

LibraryGal said:


> Would be lovely to just share what unites us - our love of crafts.


I understand that some people would prefer this choice. I would be bored to death because I have many, many interests in life.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

imalulu said:


> hmmmm.....maybe intentional?? THINK.
> 
> Did you possibly even think that people come on here, read the first page or two or three, etc. and then type a response? This new response gets put at the end of all the post.... so, it starts up again. Most don't read ALL the pages before responding.


No, and if I had read all responses before typing in my own, I wouldn't have done it...LOL...lesson learned!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

KNITTEN NANA said:


> I agree with you 100% my grandmother said the same thing about discussing politics too. She always said thats why there is a curtin in voting booths.


I'm 79. I'm glad times have changed.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

skkp said:


> They must have escaped from the Attic.


??


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

notinkansas said:


> This still is a 'nice place I visit every morning'. I read it every day. The recent negativity does not diminish all the good stuff that is here. Just ignore the bad stuff. I keep reading comments about the demise of this site because of the negativity in the political sections. I disagree. The shared information and projects are the core of this forum, and they are just as valuable now as they ever were. IMO.


You and I are good at sorting ;~D.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Damiano said:


> Where is a MEN'S group on here?


As far as I know, there is no MEN'S section...not because they don't deserve their own section, but I think it could be that there are just a very few men members. And, if there WERE a men's section, would women be allowed to subscribe and comment there?... :sm19: ...I wouldn't mind having that option as I have no idea just who the male members are except a couple...is that all there are?


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

imalulu said:


> "I'm sure there are many other sites online that people can voice their political opinion."
> 
> So, what do you say about other sections on KP that are not for "discussing knitting and crafts"....
> 1. Game Cafe...there are plenty of other sites for games
> ...


That was an educational list. Perhaps I need to do some exploring..... Please don't get rid of them, anyone.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

imalulu said:


> hmmmm.....maybe intentional?? THINK.
> 
> Did you possibly even think that people come on here, read the first page or two or three, etc. and then type a response? This new response gets put at the end of all the post.... so, it starts up again. Most don't read ALL the pages before responding.


In addition to which, we don't, worldwide, all live in the same time zone.


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## Rosette (Oct 7, 2011)

True. It is 21.40 here in UK.


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## Altice (Oct 22, 2016)

jmcret05 said:


> If you go to your Profile, you will see that you are (by default) subscribed to all sections of KP. If you select unsubscribe, you will not see that section. As an example, I do not wish to see Chit Chat, Other Crafts, Machine Knitting, etc.
> 
> On that note, the Progressive Women's Forum is a place to keep those who are interested, up on the subjects now important to our democracy. There are articles posted that we may not all see. Some have comments and some do not. You could say that it is also a place to speak out and resolve our frustrations with the current administration. If you don't agree, that is your right. No one is forced to endure any part of KP, but it is not all about knitting and crocheting and other crafts. It is a place for questions, answers, opinions, and discussions.
> 
> Just change your settings and enjoy the sections that you want to read.


I unsubscibed to everything not knitting, crochet or cooking. This was after the arguments that sent some KP Members to Ravelry. When it spilled out into Main I went there to look and wasn't interested. I do my political talking on other websites.


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## Altice (Oct 22, 2016)

SAMkewel said:


> ??


Its a forum where people argue a lot. I unsubscribed.


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## PatchesPatches (Sep 12, 2011)

jvallas said:


> I don't get what difference it makes if there's a section one doesn't enjoy. Just don't ever enter that section. For those of us who read from the site rather than the daily digest, we can just set our preferences to never show that category on our pages.


 My thoughts, exactly.


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## pierrette (Jul 18, 2012)

Yes! Well said!


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## lassiegirl (Jan 7, 2018)

I posted a message some time back voicing the same problem and man I got roasted, glad to have other people speak up. Thank you M30Knitting, would like to keep this a safe place, LOL,


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> That was an educational list. Perhaps I need to do some exploring..... Please don't get rid of them, anyone.


http://www.knittingparadise.com/all-section-list


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Phoenix said:


> No, and if I had read all responses before typing in my own, I wouldn't have done it...LOL...lesson learned!


LOL!


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## Chesneys (Jan 30, 2015)

immunurse said:


> For all the years I have been reading KP, there has been the Chit-Chat forum for all non-needlecraft posts. Then in the last couple of years we've also had the "Attic" and "Solarium" for political posts of both persuasions. I see nothing wrong with having them here. My daily digest doesn't include any that I don't wish to see. And I've never seen any objections, until today, for having a place for these subjects. In which section did you find the progressive subject?
> 
> I notice that your post is misplaced in the "Main" forum. Did you mean to put it somewhere else?


Love this response. Looks like immunurse has lots of experience dealing with cranky people. :sm04:


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

jvallas said:


> In a way it really _isn't_ a knitting/ crochet forum. It's got all kinds of other things. If the problem is that it's called *knitting* paradise, well then we need to outlaw crochet and "other craft." along with everything else that's non-knitting.
> 
> I'd say we need a section called "Things to whine about."


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

I must have missed something. I don't see a progressive women's group being added to KP. Where is this group? Does it have its own topic?

Yes, of course this is a knitting, crocheting, weaving, spinning, dyeing group. That's what we talk about in all topics except for Chit-Chat. If a progressive women's group has suddenly appeared in Chit-Chat, and that is upsetting to anyone, then why are you reading Chit-Chat at all? If you want to read only about crafts, then it would be best to read all the other topics instead. And why, may I ask, are you posting something about politics in the Main topic, which is for knitting etc. ONLY? I only read this post because I thought it had something to do with crafts.

Or does this progressive women's group appear in the Attic? If it does, and if that bothers you, why in the world are you reading anything in the Attic?

Frankly, I find it extremely hypocritical to complain about politics in a section of KP that is reserved for the discussion of our crafts.

So please do confine your political rants, be they progressive, conservative, libertarian, communist, fascist, or whatever, to the Chit-Chat section. I have ZERO desire to read what turns out to be a political post in the Main section.

Hazel


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## beachknit (Oct 25, 2011)

Very simple...many topics here for many tastes and interests. Its YOUR choice if you want to read them or not.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

winfree said:


> This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


I do not want to discuss my political views on this forum. However, it is not my right nor yours to dictate what someone else wishes to partake in. You said yourself, we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read.


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## beachknit (Oct 25, 2011)

raindancer said:


> I do not want to discuss my political views on this forum. However, it is not my right nor yours to dictate what someone else wishes to partake in. You said yourself, we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read.


Totally agree!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

imalulu said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/all-section-list


This is interesting; I hadn't taken a peak in years, so thanks for the poke. As always, nothing stays the same forever :~).


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## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> As far as I know, there is no MEN'S section...not because they don't deserve their own section, but I think it could be that there are just a very few men members. And, if there WERE a men's section, would women be allowed to subscribe and comment there?... :sm19: ...I wouldn't mind having that option as I have no idea just who the male members are except a couple...is that all there are?


We have a few men knitters and one who, I believe, doesn't knit or crochet but does read KP and comments from time to time. Sometimes he raises the hackles of some of our knitters.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

budasha said:


> We have a few men knitters and one who, I believe, doesn't knit or crochet but does read KP and comments from time to time. Sometimes he raises the hackles of some of our knitters.


Yes, indeed.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

budasha said:


> We have a few men knitters and one who, I believe, doesn't knit or crochet but does read KP and comments from time to time. Sometimes he raises the hackles of some of our knitters.


Oh yes I know who you mean, I do wonder why he's on here myself.


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## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Oh yes I know who you mean, I do wonder why he's on here myself.


I've wondered too but have never enquired. I thought if he wants to join in, fine as long as he doesn't create too much flack. We used to have a man from England who designed patterns; he did a lot of egg cups cozies. I really enjoyed his comments and miss him.


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## Nanamel14 (Aug 4, 2016)

I just read the posts I like, if something starts getting heated I go to another section


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## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

Agree-politics do not belong here


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

budasha said:


> I've wondered too but have never enquired. I thought if he wants to join in, fine as long as he doesn't create too much flack. We used to have a man from England who designed patterns; he did a lot of egg cups cozies. I really enjoyed his comments and miss him.


However this guy doesn't knit or design or crochet he seems to be here just to tell us ladies what to do. how to do it and what to think.


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## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

Aisles said:


> However this guy doesn't knit or design or crochet he seems to be here just to tell us ladies what to do. how to do it and what to think.


True.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


Administration is the one who gave we Progressive Women our own forum. You are not required to read it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Chesneys said:


> Love this response. Looks like immunurse has lots of experience dealing with cranky people. :sm04:


The Progressive Women's forum was started in 2011 or 2012. Are they just now realizing that a Progressive Forum is here?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Augustgran said:


> The PWF has been here since 2015 , that is THREE years!!!!!! , and now you complain???????


Actuall Auggie, it has been here since 2012.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Sorry but I found the OP Thread annoying.
> 
> How dare you dictate what the owner of the this forum may or may not set up for the users to use or not use?
> 
> ...


Nobody pays a dime to enjoy this site. She is demanding that Admin remove the PWF??
Fat chance. She should be grateful and take advantage of the knitting forums that are here.


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## alidakyle (Dec 20, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


Don't subscribe to the group and ignore...move on. Why should the rest who might enjoy this topic be deprived?


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## alidakyle (Dec 20, 2011)

MRSTLD said:


> I agree! Politics should stay out of KP!


But what if people enjoy the topic???


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## alidakyle (Dec 20, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> If you go to your Profile, you will see that you are (by default) subscribed to all sections of KP. If you select unsubscribe, you will not see that section. As an example, I do not wish to see Chit Chat, Other Crafts, Machine Knitting, etc.
> 
> On that note, the Progressive Women's Forum is a place to keep those who are interested, up on the subjects now important to our democracy. There are articles posted that we may not all see. Some have comments and some do not. You could say that it is also a place to speak out and resolve our frustrations with the current administration. If you don't agree, that is your right. No one is forced to endure any part of KP, but it is not all about knitting and crocheting and other crafts. It is a place for questions, answers, opinions, and discussions.
> 
> Just change your settings and enjoy the sections that you want to read.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Chesneys (Jan 30, 2015)

BrattyPatty said:


> The Progressive Women's forum was started in 2011 or 2012. Are they just now realizing that a Progressive Forum is here?


Yep. But also, look how long this thread is. I don't quite know why, but obviously it is a subject of interest.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

I used to want to open a knitting store. That stopped when I got on here, and found all the "progressives" in knitting circles. It isn't just on KP. Read some of the blogs from various yarn shops around the nation. There are many I used to dream of visiting, but their prices are beyond me anyway, and the appearance of their employees marks them as extreme progressives. Having worked in a bookstore for ten years, you can spot the politics a customer espouses a mile away. I decided to just knit and purchase without joining the blog because I didn't want the grief. It is their right to be who they are, and they don't want to hear my thoughts anymore than I want to deal with theirs. I just buy my yarn on eBay (mostly) and keep my mouth shut. If KP is ever fully taken over by these attitudes, I will leave and never come back.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

winfree said:


> This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


No it is not a blog. It is a *site* with many forums. If you don't like one of the forums, unsubscribe to it. Once again, Admin helped us open that forum. You don't pay a cent to post and read here. Do you really want to tell him what he should and shouldn't do?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> I used to want to open a knitting store. That stopped when I got on here, and found all the "progressives" in knitting circles. It isn't just on KP. Read some of the blogs from various yarn shops around the nation. There are many I used to dream of visiting, but their prices are beyond me anyway, and the appearance of their employees marks them as extreme progressives. Having worked in a bookstore for ten years, you can spot the politics a customer espouses a mile away. I decided to just knit and purchase without joining the blog because I didn't want the grief. It is their right to be who they are, and they don't want to hear my thoughts anymore than I want to deal with theirs. I just buy my yarn on eBay (mostly) and keep my mouth shut. If KP is ever fully taken over by these attitudes, I will leave and never come back.


Oh please..... This is knee deep with BS. You can tell they are Progressive by what they wear? How foolish you sound!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> Who ever said I didn't like you or various topics? Not me. I simply objected to a political topic on an otherwise knitting, crocheting, cooking, sewing, and other crafty topics, including cross stitch. I also love to needlepoint and would love to share my experience with that. There's some very defensive people here who object to my free speech rights! What's up with that?


There is a forum called Other Crafts where some people do needlepoint.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

KNITTEN NANA said:


> I agree with you 100% my grandmother said the same thing about discussing politics too. She always said thats why there is a curtin in voting booths.


You did mean curtain, didn't you? Unsubscribe from what you don't want to read. It's as simple as that.


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## scumbugusa (Oct 10, 2011)

By even mentioning these people, you are giving them the attention they are looking for. I suggest you ignore them and enjoy the sections you like.

Also Admin is awol. Good luck in trying to get him/her/them to reply.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> I must have missed something. I don't see a progressive women's group being added to KP. Where is this group? Does it have its own topic?
> 
> Yes, of course this is a knitting, crocheting, weaving, spinning, dyeing group. That's what we talk about in all topics except for Chit-Chat. If a progressive women's group has suddenly appeared in Chit-Chat, and that is upsetting to anyone, then why are you reading Chit-Chat at all? If you want to read only about crafts, then it would be best to read all the other topics instead. And why, may I ask, are you posting something about politics in the Main topic, which is for knitting etc. ONLY? I only read this post because I thought it had something to do with crafts.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Hazel! I have always liked you!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I should thank M30. We just gained 6 new members in the Progressive Women's Forum!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rosewood11 said:


> I used to want to open a knitting store. That stopped when I got on here, and found all the "progressives" in knitting circles. It isn't just on KP. Read some of the blogs from various yarn shops around the nation. There are many I used to dream of visiting, but their prices are beyond me anyway, and the appearance of their employees marks them as extreme progressives. Having worked in a bookstore for ten years, you can spot the politics a customer espouses a mile away. I decided to just knit and purchase without joining the blog because I didn't want the grief. It is their right to be who they are, and they don't want to hear my thoughts anymore than I want to deal with theirs. I just buy my yarn on eBay (mostly) and keep my mouth shut. If KP is ever fully taken over by these attitudes, I will leave and never come back.


So you are blaming KP for your not following your dreams?

What are the outwardly signs of a progressive?


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## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

SQM said:


> So you are blaming KP for your not following your dreams?
> 
> What are the outwardly signs of a progressive?


The evil eye. Seriously.


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## dhenth (Jul 10, 2013)

SQM said:


> So you are blaming KP for your not following your dreams?
> 
> What are the outwardly signs of a progressive?


The letter "P" branded onto their foreheads! :sm02:


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## jbandsma (Mar 6, 2011)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


#1 Admin no longer exists
#2 Progressive Women's Forum is a moderated section that was given to said moderator when an admin did exist...quite some time ago.
#3 Just like not liking broccoli means I can't tell you you can't eat it, you don't have to put the PWF on your watch list, open the section or read any topics there.


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## Mary Diaz (Mar 30, 2012)

:sm19:


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

budasha said:


> I've wondered too but have never enquired. I thought if he wants to join in, fine as long as he doesn't create too much flack. We used to have a man from England who designed patterns; he did a lot of egg cups cozies. I really enjoyed his comments and miss him.


I think his name was Dave something..... I was sorry when he suddenly left, too. His egg cups were representative of specific countries, done in that country's colors. He got upset when so many took "artistic license" and changed his designs' colors to suit themselves, so he decided not to take fools lightly following a couple of warnings. I call them fools because they could do what they pleased without rubbing his nose in it with photos. I tried and failed at trying to get him to return. He didn't respond to my PM's. I don't know whether anyone learned any lessons on that one, but I did think it was disrespectful when he was providing free patterns. He used to head up the "Tea Party" section--I believe that's what it's called. I haven't been back there since.


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

Altice said:


> I unsubscibed to everything not knitting, crochet or cooking. This was after the arguments that sent some KP Members to Ravelry. When it spilled out into Main I went there to look and wasn't interested. I do my political talking on other websites.


Altice - I do not think the site on Ravelry was started because of any arguments here on KP. Rather it was started - and welcomed all KPers - because Admin was no longer managing this site and we were suddenly subject to spamming and porn. Some members were concerned they would lose track of friends they had made here and used the ravelry site as a defense against that - while also remaining members here.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

hilltopper said:


> Altice - I do not think the site on Ravelry was started because of any arguments here on KP. Rather it was started - and welcomed all KPers because Admin was no longer managing this site and we were suddenly subject to spamming and porn. Some members were concerned they would lose track of friends they had made here and used the ravelry site as a defense against that.


I think you're exactly right. Having been selected by someone unknown to be the recipient of tons of porn on a daily basis for longer than two years, I can testify that it isn't fun. I don't know how that happened or how I was chosen, but I learned to be exceedingly careful about what I click on. I still get occasional porn in my spam four years later; I don't have any idea how often this may happen to others. When any forum member announces the arrival of porn on this forum, I can't recommend strongly enough that folks don't go rushing there to check it out.....


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I think you're exactly right. Having been selected by someone unknown to be the recipient of tons of porn on a daily basis for longer than two years, I can testify that it isn't fun. I don't know how that happened or how I was chosen, but I learned to be exceedingly careful about what I click on. I still get occasional porn in my spam four years later; I don't have any idea how often this may happen to others. When any forum member announces the arrival of porn on this forum, I can't recommend strongly enough that folks don't go rushing there to check it out.....


And this is what I worry about the most here on KP. I can avoid the fighting and nastiness if I choose, but what else is getting in here? It's easy to say "Don't click unknown links" but how can anyone be sure? If one wanted to post a hazardous link, could they not make it look innocent...even include the name Ravelry somehow? I don't know enough but Admin's disregard for us worries me

I checked ugly hedgehog today and Admin's last post there was February so .... so I don't know what to think.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I should thank M30. We just gained 6 new members in the Progressive Women's Forum!!


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> I think you're exactly right. Having been selected by someone unknown to be the recipient of tons of porn on a daily basis for longer than two years, I can testify that it isn't fun. I don't know how that happened or how I was chosen, but I learned to be exceedingly careful about what I click on. I still get occasional porn in my spam four years later; I don't have any idea how often this may happen to others. When any forum member announces the arrival of porn on this forum, I can't recommend strongly enough that folks don't go rushing there to check it out.....


You're no fun.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh please..... This is knee deep with BS. You can tell they are Progressive by what they wear? How foolish you sound!


As always, the Progressive Woman is right!!! Or is that left?

Tell you what: I'll open my shop, call it Diamond & Silk's, and post a Trump 2020 sign in the window. Are you going to wear your pink "pussy hat" and "evil eye gloves" in to buy yarn from me? Didn't think so. I don't want to patronize progressive shops, either--or at least not go in and sit there listening to a conversation I could not respond to. Of course, I don't think they'd care for the pink "Hello, Kitty" gun in my purse, either. Enjoy the Progressive forum, Patty, dear.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

I don’t see a problem with progressive groups or conservative groups on KP. The problem comes when progressives or agitators join a conservative group (or vice versa) to attack the members of that group. This bullying happens on FB and has occurred on KP.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

Agreed, KnitCrazy!!! I don't like the bullying aspect of any "social" media, and that's why I try to avoid being a part of any of these sites. However, if someone wants to come after me, they'll get as good as they gave until I get overly bored. Then I'll just go away, and leave them to stew in their own juices.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rosewood11 said:


> Agreed, KnitCrazy!!! I don't like the bullying aspect of any "social" media, and that's why I try to avoid being a part of any of these sites. However, if someone wants to come after me, they'll get as good as they gave until I get overly bored. Then I'll just go away, and leave them to stew in their own juices.


Pleasant.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Agreed, KnitCrazy!!! I don't like the bullying aspect of any "social" media, and that's why I try to avoid being a part of any of these sites. However, if someone wants to come after me, they'll get as good as they gave until I get overly bored. Then I'll just go away, and leave them to stew in their own juices.


I like you.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> As always, the Progressive Woman is right!!! Or is that left?
> 
> Tell you what: I'll open my shop, call it Diamond & Silk's, and post a Trump 2020 sign in the window. Are you going to wear your pink "pussy hat" and "evil eye gloves" in to buy yarn from me? Didn't think so. I don't want to patronize progressive shops, either--or at least not go in and sit there listening to a conversation I could not respond to. Of course, I don't think they'd care for the pink "Hello, Kitty" gun in my purse, either. Enjoy the Progressive forum, Patty, dear.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> I like you.


Oy! Is this a shiddock?


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! Is this a shiddock?


You'll never know, SQM!!! Besides, I thought Progressives approved of that sort of thing!!!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> Exactly. These periodic attempts to control the content of someone else's forum are somewhat mind-boggling to me. What's so difficult about not looking? We use selective looking every day (don't look at the dust bunnies in the corner until another day, don't stare at the people who are different from ourselves, etc.). I don't know of anyone who is successful in ordering the world, or even his/her own surroundings, entirely to one's liking. Even if one went to the extent of setting up one's own forum I doubt it would be perfect at all times. We are free to feel however we wish and state/own those feelings, but we are not free to predetermine the feelings of anyone else.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> I like you.


Backatcha, kneonknitter!!! AND I LOVE YOUR COFFEE MUG!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rosewood11 said:


> You'll never know, SQM!!! Besides, I thought Progressives approved of that sort of thing!!!


I do not know. I am not a progressive.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> I do not know. I am not a progressive.


Glad to hear that, SQM. God is still working in your life!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Rosewood11 said:


> Glad to hear that, SQM. God is still working in your life!!!


You made me laugh. I don't believe in "god". You sound like Ms. Kathy. Is she still on KP.

I am pro-Israel, anti gun laws and an Independent. I detest trump and the Reps. So don't start your happy dance yet.


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## notinkansas (Mar 1, 2014)

mea said:


> Me again, all. Sorry to keep interrupting this topic with.....knitting talk...but for those interested in the All You Knit is Love pattern, it can be found in the book "Making Cushions and Pillows" by Nina Granlund Sæther.


Thanks much for that. : )


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

imalulu said:


> hmmmm.....maybe intentional?? THINK.
> 
> Did you possibly even think that people come on here, read the first page or two or three, etc. and then type a response? This new response gets put at the end of all the post.... so, it starts up again. *Most don't read ALL the pages before responding.*


Ain't that the truth!!! It's also a great pity, because there are new ideas introduced after the first page or two.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Shylinn said:


> I thank admin for allowing me to unwatch a topic! Every time this one looks like it's going to wind down, someone starts it up again.....hmmmm - maybe that's intentional?


Every time zone - all 24 of them - gets its own version of the daily digest. So, a topic shows up on some digests today and on others the next day. Then again, there are those who religiously save the digest to read when they have time ... sometimes weeks or months later ... and the often resurrect long dormant topics.

The Admin's *ONLY* goal is to have users click. Each click - in whatever section - nets Admin a fractional penny, and those pennies add up to a very nice income for him. I just wish he'd come back to administrating as before Christmas.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

winfree said:


> This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


Umm ... Please, look up the meanings of the words 'blog' and 'forum'. They are not interchangeable. KP was created to _make money for its owner_. He's got at least two other forums for the same reason - one photography focused, and one political. This one seems to be earning more than the either of the other two.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mea said:


> Me again, all. Sorry to keep interrupting this topic with.....knitting talk...but for those interested in the All You Knit is Love pattern, it can be found in the book "Making Cushions and Pillows" by Nina Granlund Sæther.


Maybe someday, but not today, I'll buy it. Someday when I can pick it up stateside, because Amazon Canada gouges unbelievably.
USA: $16.43
Canada: $27.40
Our exchange rate is lousy, but not _that_ much!


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! Is this a shiddock?


.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shidduch
Laughing my head off!!! :sm23: :sm23:


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Damiano said:


> Where is a MEN'S group on here?


Since there doesn't seem to be one, and since Admin is MIA since around Christmastime, why not begin a topic to which you invite those guys you know of? I think I know of maybe a dozen, not including der_f....

From what I've seen, most of the male yarnies on here don't participate in non-yarny discussions - or I'm mistaken and just don't notice who's posting where, always possible.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

budasha said:


> I've wondered too but have never enquired. I thought if he wants to join in, fine as long as he doesn't create too much flack. We used to have a man from England who designed patterns; he did a lot of egg cups cozies. I really enjoyed his comments and miss him.


FireballDave, and yes, I miss his sharp wit.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I should thank M30. We just gained 6 new members in the Progressive Women's Forum!!


Great!


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> So you are blaming KP for your not following your dreams?
> 
> What are the outwardly signs of a progressive?


Let me know if you ever find out.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

hilltopper said:


> Altice - I do not think the site on Ravelry was started because of any arguments here on KP. Rather it was started - and welcomed all KPers - because Admin was no longer managing this site and we were suddenly subject to spamming and porn. Some members were concerned they would lose track of friends they had made here and used the ravelry site as a defense against that - while also remaining members here.


Exactly!!!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! Is this a shiddock?


 :sm09: :sm09: :sm09: :sm09: :sm09: :sm09: :sm09: In the words of Yenta...it's a match made in heaven!!!


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Backatcha, kneonknitter!!! AND I LOVE YOUR COFFEE MUG!!!


Thanks!! You should see the real coffee mug I sent my daughter! :sm09: :sm09:


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> You made me laugh. I don't believe in "god". You sound like Ms. Kathy. Is she still on KP.
> 
> I am pro-Israel, anti gun laws and an Independent. I detest trump and the Reps. So don't start your happy dance yet.


It's all good SQM. I've enjoyed our interactions.


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shidduch
> Laughing my head off!!! :sm23: :sm23:


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## beanscene (Jun 9, 2012)

smasha12 said:


> I have learned to avoid sections that are one-sided, one way or the other. I don't have anyone on ignore, but I do know whose posts will irritate me (for a variety of reasons) and just skip those too. They don't know and it saves me from bad moods or high blood pressure!


????????????


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## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

In the most simplistic terms - do not click on anything that looks suspicious or you do not know for certain it is not something with nefarious code attached to it. I would not even click on something that a member posts for a download - you have no idea what is on their computer or you could be transferring to yours. Your best bet is to pay for a good antivirus software and do not click on anything.


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## dilyspr (May 13, 2016)

I totally agree with you! We crafters enjoy sharing tips, ideas, and just anything "crafty." 

I would greatly appreciate keeping politics and political views off this forum.

Sincerely,
Dianne L. Springer


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## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

dilyspr said:


> I totally agree with you! We crafters enjoy sharing tips, ideas, and just anything "crafty."
> 
> I would greatly appreciate keeping politics and political views off this forum.
> 
> ...


Once again, if you do not like political groups, do not subscribe to them or read their posts. This is a free forum and we cannot dictate what the owner allows nor should be strive to silence others.

I do believe I should stop following this on and practice what I preach. Have a great day!


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

KP did not allow direct downloads at one time. When I posted about the change a few years ago, most people were unconcerned, and some were quite sarcastic. I've had far too many experiences of having to fix computers from sources that I falsely assumed to safe. The majority of those had been attacked in ignorance. Ironically, the majority were from my students at a technical university who considered themselves computer whizz kids. Consequently, I have mine protected like Fort Knox!


CBratt said:


> In the most simplistic terms - do not click on anything that looks suspicious or you do not know for certain it is not something with nefarious code attached to it. I would not even click on something that a member posts for a download - you have no idea what is on their computer or you could be transferring to yours. Your best bet is to pay for a good antivirus software and do not click on anything.


----------



## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

Celt Knitter said:


> KP did not allow direct downloads at one time. When I posted about the change a few years ago, most people were unconcerned, and some were quite sarcastic. I've had far too many experiences of having to fix computers from sources that I falsely assumed to safe. The majority of those had been attacked in ignorance. Ironically, the majority were from my students at a technical university who considered themselves computer whizz kids. Consequently, I have mine protected like Fort Knox!


Amen! Experience is a great teacher!


----------



## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> I think his name was Dave something..... I was sorry when he suddenly left, too. His egg cups were representative of specific countries, done in that country's colors. He got upset when so many took "artistic license" and changed his designs' colors to suit themselves, so he decided not to take fools lightly following a couple of warnings. I call them fools because they could do what they pleased without rubbing his nose in it with photos. I tried and failed at trying to get him to return. He didn't respond to my PM's. I don't know whether anyone learned any lessons on that one, but I did think it was disrespectful when he was providing free patterns. He used to head up the "Tea Party" section--I believe that's what it's called. I haven't been back there since.


Yes, it was Dave and I understand his angst. The Tea Party is still in existence and I am a member. We are a very social group.


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> I used to want to open a knitting store. That stopped when I got on here, and found all the "progressives" in knitting circles. It isn't just on KP. Read some of the blogs from various yarn shops around the nation. There are many I used to dream of visiting, but their prices are beyond me anyway, and the appearance of their employees marks them as extreme progressives. Having worked in a bookstore for ten years, you can spot the politics a customer espouses a mile away. I decided to just knit and purchase without joining the blog because I didn't want the grief. It is their right to be who they are, and they don't want to hear my thoughts anymore than I want to deal with theirs. I just buy my yarn on eBay (mostly) and keep my mouth shut. If KP is ever fully taken over by these attitudes, I will leave and never come back.


What are 'extreme progressives' and how do you know when you see one?? Is it like those that can spot a 'gay person' a mile away? Or is it like identifying a 'person on the dole' because they are look poor and unemployed??

It is probably good that you didn't open a LYS. In business, you really need to consider that people are ALL different and respect that difference just as you want them to respect you.

Just so you don't have to guess, I'm neither liberal, conservative, progressive, independent, alt-right, alt-left or anything else. I'm a citizen that is extremely concerned with the direction of our country and the divisiveness that we are experiencing. Thanks for not opening that store.


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

mea said:


> And this is what I worry about the most here on KP. I can avoid the fighting and nastiness if I choose, but what else is getting in here? It's easy to say "Don't click unknown links" but how can anyone be sure? If one wanted to post a hazardous link, could they not make it look innocent...even include the name Ravelry somehow? I don't know enough but Admin's disregard for us worries me
> 
> I checked ugly hedgehog today and Admin's last post there was February so .... so I don't know what to think.


Perhaps the Admin is hoping that we can read the forum rules, understand instructions, and act like adults? Admin took care of recent spam artist on the same day it appeared. Not totally absent.

Obviously, everyone doesn't realize that they can create a topic in the correct section, omit sections they don't want to see, and actually just knit or crochet, or other craft, or post/not post. Isn't freedom great??


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

budasha said:


> Yes, it was Dave and I understand his angst. The Tea Party is still in existence and I am a member. We are a very social group.


I didn't know that, I will stop in and have a browse around. See, the things we learn if we keep our eyes and ears open. Thank you. What a pity about Dave.


----------



## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> Perhaps the Admin is hoping that we can read the forum rules, understand instructions, and act like adults? Admin took care of recent spam artist on the same day it appeared. Not totally absent.
> 
> Obviously, everyone doesn't realize that they can create a topic in the correct section, omit sections they don't want to see, and actually just knit or crochet, or other craft, or post/not post. Isn't freedom great??


I must have missed that. What spam was removed? It is all still here as far as I can see. And as far as Admin hoping we follow instructions, obviously that isn't working, but regardless, it is an odd way to run a business, unless he doesn't care whether it succeeds. (And yes, I know...his business...his rules..., etc.). KP is failing, IMO. Any extra clicks he gets from allowing an "anything goes" atmosphere will eventually fail also, since many no longer post much.


----------



## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

jmcret05 said:


> Perhaps the Admin is hoping that we can read the forum rules, understand instructions, and act like adults? Admin took care of recent spam artist on the same day it appeared. Not totally absent.
> 
> Obviously, everyone doesn't realize that they can create a topic in the correct section, omit sections they don't want to see, and actually just knit or crochet, or other craft, or post/not post. Isn't freedom great??


Well said Bravo.

I've just come back from stripping wall paper from my craft room walls to enjoy quick break and knit to find there are still people complaining and demanding their own way when they don't pay a subscription and are using a forum someone else has set up free for them to use.

Mind boggling ungratefulness and if I was the owner I know what I would do with such demanding ungrateful individuals.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Well said Bravo.
> 
> I've just come back from stripping wall paper from my craft room walls to enjoy quick break and knit to find there are still people complaining and demanding their own way when they don't pay a subscription and are using a forum someone else has set up free for them to use.
> 
> Mind boggling ungratefulness and if I was the owner I know what I would do with such demanding ungrateful individuals.


;~)!


----------



## hrchannel (Oct 6, 2016)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh please..... This is knee deep with BS. You can tell they are Progressive by what they wear? How foolish you sound!


Well Hell's bells, it's been my progressive clothing that's been giving me away...lol you learn something new on KP every day!


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Are you sure???? I thought it was that habit of putting one foot in front of another to get to where you want! :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


hrchannel said:


> Well Hell's bells, it's been my progressive clothing that's been giving me away...lol you learn something new on KP every day!


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

hrchannel said:


> Well Hell's bells, it's been my progressive clothing that's been giving me away...lol you learn something new on KP every day!


Maybe it's the bright pink kitty hat....


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

mea said:


> I must have missed that. What spam was removed? It is all still here as far as I can see. And as far as Admin hoping we follow instructions, obviously that isn't working, but regardless, it is an odd way to run a business, unless he doesn't care whether it succeeds. (And yes, I know...his business...his rules..., etc.). KP is failing, IMO. Any extra clicks he gets from allowing an "anything goes" atmosphere will eventually fail also, since many no longer post much.


There was recently a (more than likely) robo spam that registered as 'nenci' and in a short span of hours put 236 posts with hundreds of links to buy different drugs at supposed special prices. I put out a warning not to open those posts, informed the admin, and sent an email to the KP office.

Each of us has the ability to monitor ourselves and this forum will only fail if we let it. Just MY opinion.


----------



## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> There was recently a (more than likely) robo spam that registered as 'nenci' and in a short span of hours put 236 posts with hundreds of links to buy different drugs at supposed special prices. I put out a warning not to open those posts, informed the admin, and sent an email to the KP office.
> 
> Each of us has the ability to monitor ourselves and this forum will only fail if we let it. Just MY opinion.


Yes. Here she is. All posts still there


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

dilyspr said:


> I totally agree with you! We crafters enjoy sharing tips, ideas, and just anything "crafty."
> 
> I would greatly appreciate keeping politics and political views off this forum.
> 
> ...


Those who participate in the Progressive Womens Forum (a section of the overall forum) know to post items in the correct place. If you are subscribed to that section you will see it in your "Newest Topics", not to be confused with the Digest received by email. As mentioned multiple times on THIS post, unsubscribe to ANY section you do not wish to see, or participate in.

I could say I don't want to have chit chat on the forum, but that's not my call. 20 pages of opinions and still the answer is the same.


----------



## dilyspr (May 13, 2016)

You are correct. In the future, when something pops up I don't want to see, I will follow your advice. I have no idea how I subscribed to this page to begin with. When I registered with the Knitting Digest I had no idea it was anything but a crafters site.

Have a great day!
Dianne


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

mea said:


> Yes. Here she is. All posts still there


My opinion is that getting rid of computer generated spam is not all that easy. We are adults and should know better than to click on links like that. To each his own. You were warned.


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> My opinion is that getting rid of computer generated spam is not all that easy. We are adults and should know better than to click on links like that. To each his own. You were warned.


Posts like that, and porn images, would have been removed instantly by Admin in the past. We have all been warned and to deny that security on this site is suspect is to deny reality.

I am still here, and have no plans to leave. Just sayin, I am disappointed in Admin who has provided a wonderful site, but no longer seems interested.


----------



## budasha (Aug 10, 2011)

painthoss said:


> I didn't know that, I will stop in and have a browse around. See, the things we learn if we keep our eyes and ears open. Thank you. What a pity about Dave.


You would be welcome. The only things we don't discuss are politics and religion.


----------



## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

judypfennemore said:


> Maybe it's the bright pink kitty hat....


Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.

However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.

Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor old eyes can't read mug. What does it say? Thanks.



kneonknitter said:


> Thanks!! You should see the real coffee mug I sent my daughter! :sm09: :sm09:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. People have opinions. Businesses earn money...hopefully.



jmcret05 said:


> What are 'extreme progressives' and how do you know when you see one?? Is it like those that can spot a 'gay person' a mile away? Or is it like identifying a 'person on the dole' because they are look poor and unemployed??
> 
> It is probably good that you didn't open a LYS. In business, you really need to consider that people are ALL different and respect that difference just as you want them to respect you.
> 
> Just so you don't have to guess, I'm neither liberal, conservative, progressive, independent, alt-right, alt-left or anything else. I'm a citizen that is extremely concerned with the direction of our country and the divisiveness that we are experiencing. Thanks for not opening that store.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

jmcret05 said:


> Perhaps the Admin is hoping that we can read the forum rules, understand instructions, and act like adults? Admin took care of recent spam artist on the same day it appeared. Not totally absent.
> 
> Obviously, everyone doesn't realize that they can create a topic in the correct section, omit sections they don't want to see, and actually just knit or crochet, or other craft, or post/not post. Isn't freedom great??


Freedom is the greatest.


----------



## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

damemary said:


> Poor old eyes can't read mug. What does it say? Thanks.


Kneonknitter's coffee mug reads "Shhhhhhhh....My coffee and I are having a moment. I will deal with you later."

I'll bet the one she sent her daughter was also hysterical!!!


----------



## painthoss (Jul 10, 2012)

budasha said:


> You would be welcome. The only things we don't discuss are politics and religion.


Thank you, Budasha.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> There was recently a (more than likely) robo spam that registered as 'nenci' and in a short span of hours put 236 posts with hundreds of links to buy different drugs at supposed special prices. I put out a warning not to open those posts, informed the admin, and sent an email to the KP office.
> 
> Each of us has the ability to monitor ourselves and this forum will only fail if we let it. Just MY opinion.


I agree wholeheartedly!


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

damemary said:


> Freedom is the greatest.


Absolutely! At one point, the "do it yourself" movement was strong and healthy. Some of us have made it a way of life.....


----------



## tygereye (Sep 1, 2016)

You can simply not subscribe to the section this is in~ or ignore the posts just scroll on by  I hear read and see enough of it too believe me!


----------



## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

winfree said:


> This is a knitting and crochet blog. I agree we all have a choice as to what we want to open and read. I think politics is important. If progressive women want to express their mind that is their choice. But they should form their own blog and express options. Knitting Paradise was created for knitters not would be politicians to express their opinions. So ladies lets keep politics out of one of lifes pleasure and not use the blog to further the oppressive agenda


They did form their own, it's called the Progressive women's forum.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

vikicooks said:


> They did form their own, it's called the Progressive women's forum.


(Once again, someone is confusing a forum with a blog.)

Perhaps they think we should have the Progressive Women's Forum in an alternate universe? I didn't realize it was considered a danger ;~D.

EDIT: Also, apparently there is still confusion over ownership of this forum.....


----------



## Chesneys (Jan 30, 2015)

hrchannel said:


> Well Hell's bells, it's been my progressive clothing that's been giving me away...lol you learn something new on KP every day!


On that subject, it puts me in mind of a lower management type that likes to lord it over his badly damaged sister and her farm-raised, blue-collar husband. One day my DH was over there, in his work clothes, and the snoot was demanding of his father to know who that "scruffy old guy" was that was "hanging around".

Of course, DH cleans up real well, since his very professional job based on his higher education, that makes about four times what the snoot does, requires that.

So much for appearances. :sm16:

That comment says a lot more about the woman's biased perceptions, which are quite clear in her comments, than anyone else.


----------



## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:
> 
> Very well put. We all have this possibility, if we care to take it!! Its a bit like complaining about a TV program, and not changing the channel when it offends....
> 
> ...


I think hell may have frozen over, because I agree with everything you just said !!!!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

vikicooks said:


> I think hell may have frozen over, because I agree with everything you just said !!!!


Um, yes,he does that periodically to throw us off.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> What are 'extreme progressives' and how do you know when you see one?? Is it like those that can spot a 'gay person' a mile away? Or is it like identifying a 'person on the dole' because they are look poor and unemployed??
> 
> It is probably good that you didn't open a LYS. In business, you really need to consider that people are ALL different and respect that difference just as you want them to respect you.
> 
> Just so you don't have to guess, I'm neither liberal, conservative, progressive, independent, alt-right, alt-left or anything else. I'm a citizen that is extremely concerned with the direction of our country and the divisiveness that we are experiencing. Thanks for not opening that store.


The nearest LYS was owned/managed by a woman who obviously wasn't doing it for business purposes. I say that, because every time I entered it, I felt the chill. I get around by bicycle; that means I wear clothing suitable for pedalling, not exactly fancy dress, and no pearls at all. I'd park my bike outside, carry my helmet and knitting bag inside with me. I wasn't permitted to touch any yarn. Her expression when I asked to see the acrylic yarns was akin to a snarl. I had always read to seek information and assistance from a yarn shop (back before internet), but I found her absolutely forbidding and either ignorant or unwilling to share her knowledge. I did buy something, because I'd never seen it elsewhere and wanted it, but I was not a frequent visitor in her shop, and I told every other knitter I met about that shop. Turns out, most of them had already felt the same chill upon entering that store! And most of them dressed in a more 'normal' fashion than I, so it wasn't just _me_. The woman is long gone, and her shop didn't last long thereafter.


----------



## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

mea said:


> Posts like that, and porn images, would have been removed instantly by Admin in the past. We have all been warned and to deny that security on this site is suspect is to deny reality.
> 
> *I am still here, and have no plans to leave. Just sayin, I am disappointed in Admin who has provided a wonderful site, but no longer seems interested.*


Ditto!!


----------



## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

This is the most un-Christian diatribe I have read in some time....haven't you read "Judge not..." from your Bible? If you are referring to to the wedding cake debacle in Northern Ireland, there were no other options. In fact, one of the reasons for the years of conflict there was implacability of fundamentalist Christians! In any case, there are laws about discrimination in most Western countries. Your sneering, snide references to other people's life choices, even though though you add that it is their style choice, about the assaults against half of your God's creation. Of course, you are entitled to your opinions, but don't claim they are based on Christianity.


Rosewood11 said:


> Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.
> 
> However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.
> 
> Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


----------



## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

Evie RM said:


> I agree with you and that is why the OP should have posted this in the section called the "Attic."


I think the OP would feel more comfortable visiting the Solarium, rather than the Attic. She stated that she is Conservative, so that forum would be a better fit.


----------



## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

Ditto to the total lack of a need for a political section for this C-R-A-F-T forum!


----------



## judypfennemore (Feb 28, 2015)

Rosewood11 said:


> Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.
> 
> However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.
> 
> Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


Yes, I'm in total agreement with you; we're on the same page....live and let live!


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

Evie RM said:


> I agree with you and that is why the OP should have posted this in the section called the "Attic."


The person you quoted is the OP.


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

Rosewood11 said:


> I used to want to open a knitting store. That stopped when I got on here, and found all the "progressives" in knitting circles. It isn't just on KP. Read some of the blogs from various yarn shops around the nation. There are many I used to dream of visiting, but their prices are beyond me anyway, and the appearance of their employees marks them as extreme progressives. Having worked in a bookstore for ten years, you can spot the politics a customer espouses a mile away. I decided to just knit and purchase without joining the blog because I didn't want the grief. It is their right to be who they are, and they don't want to hear my thoughts anymore than I want to deal with theirs. I just buy my yarn on eBay (mostly) and keep my mouth shut. If KP is ever fully taken over by these attitudes, I will leave and never come back.


That is interesting that you can tell a person's political leaning just by looking. What do liberals look like? And conservatives- do they dress or shop differently?


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.
> 
> However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.
> 
> Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


I suspect that I should not comment here, but will anyway. You certainly have a right to shop where you want, say and think what you want, but it seems that you feel that if you stick with those that make you comfortable that others should do the same. I actually feel sorry for you and others that see people in descriptive groups instead of an individual with the same needs and dreams that you have. Gays, lesbians, muslims, catholics, christians, blacks, browns, whites, yellows.....what difference do any of those things make?? They have families, friends, ideas, opinions, and dreams like all of us. Please look at their hearts and not at their appearance. You may find that you have much in common.

One other thing... I'm so tired of those who hide behind their religion as an excuse. This is the 21st century and we pass it along to the next generation. I'd like to believe that we can leave it better than we found it.


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

painthoss said:


> The evil eye. Seriously.


I've been hearing a lot about the 'evil eye' lately. Must be the new In thing!


----------



## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

imalulu said:


> hmmmm.....maybe intentional?? THINK.
> 
> Did you possibly even think that people come on here, read the first page or two or three, etc. and then type a response? This new response gets put at the end of all the post.... so, it starts up again. Most don't read ALL the pages before responding.


Most of them seem to read only the first post before replying which brings everything back up to start over again. Because of the high number of replies this topic is probably at the top of the most active topics today so......I have read about half the pages of replies, 12 out of 22, and think I will now unwatch.


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## vikicooks (Nov 1, 2013)

Rosewood11 said:


> Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.
> 
> However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.
> 
> Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


Kid Rock, complete with piercings, tats and long hair, is a Conservative and hard core Trump supporter. So is Ted Nugget.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

Celt Knitter said:


> This is the most un-Christian diatribe I have read in some time...


Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to roll over and play dead, Celt Knitter!!! I didn't condemn anyone to hell. I just know where people are coming from when I see how they present themselves, and at times, what they are reading. It's called DISCERNMENT. Yes, I am a fundamentalist. Put it on a t-shirt, and I'll wear it. (As an aside, if I saw someone come to my store on a bicycle, I wouldn't be snooty with them over their sporting attire. The bike would alert me to the fact that they were involved in exercise at the time. Also, I don't think of sporting/exercising individuals as dirty. I admire them for having the energy and desire to get up and do something healthy.)

I find that most churches that object to the opinions I presented don't have enough of a coherent theology anymore that you can actually disagree with them. However, Jesus didn't say "Go ye into all the world, and agree with everyone so you don't give offense." Christianity has a definite viewpoint, and is exclusive of it's means of salvation. However, because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I have to be ugly. I have served and/or worked with people of many different faiths. We have asked each other questions about the real beliefs of our various denominations/faiths, and since no one has changed faith as a result, I take it that the other person didn't find my presentation anymore convincing than I found theirs. But neither one of us beat each other over the head with our holy book or slit each other's throat. In fact, believe it or not, we're all still friends. If I were unchristian toward people I disagreed with, I wouldn't pass on the Harry Potter customer to a staff member who would tell them what they were obviously wanting to hear. I didn't challenge them or call them a name, nor did I deny my own opinions/biases. That's called being an ADULT. You don't have to agree with me, and you can call me anything you like. What you think of me is none of my business. Better you call me names than someone it would bother.

As for the wedding cake thing, no it was not a case anywhere in Ireland I was referring to. We have such cases here in the US, and there are plenty of options for non-traditional couples to choose. As I mentioned, Scott Wooley is a mega-baker in New York City. Years ago, Mr. Wooley was an actor on one of the soap operas in New York City, and he made a cake for one of the "weddings" on the show. It was so beautiful that one of the actresses, who was getting married in real life, asked him to make her wedding cake. That cake brought him other customers, and in a very short time, he was a full-time baker, and an occasional actor. He also made a lot more money. He wrote a book called The World of Sugar Art which my store sold, and he also teaches his methods by Internet. Perhaps some gay/lesbian people in Ireland will be inspired by his work to give the couples there more options. I'm not opposed to that. It's called free enterprise. And if they are as talented as Mr. Wooley, I guarantee you there will be many traditional couples standing in the long lines for the services they offer. I might even be among them.


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to roll over and play dead, Celt Knitter!!! I didn't condemn anyone to hell. I just know where people are coming from when I see how they present themselves, and at times, what they are reading. It's called DISCERNMENT. Yes, I am a fundamentalist. Put it on a t-shirt, and I'll wear it. (As an aside, if I saw someone come to my store on a bicycle, I wouldn't be snooty with them over their sporting attire. The bike would alert me to the fact that they were involved in exercise at the time. Also, I don't think of sporting/exercising individuals as dirty. I admire them for having the energy and desire to get up and do something healthy.)
> 
> I find that most churches that object to the opinions I presented don't have enough of a coherent theology anymore that you can actually disagree with them. However, Jesus didn't say "Go ye into all the world, and agree with everyone so you don't give offense." Christianity has a definite viewpoint, and is exclusive of it's means of salvation. However, because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I have to be ugly. I have served and/or worked with people of many different faiths. We have asked each other questions about the real beliefs of our various denominations/faiths, and since no one has changed faith as a result, I take it that the other person didn't find my presentation anymore convincing than I found theirs. But neither one of us beat each other over the head with our holy book or slit each other's throat. In fact, believe it or not, we're all still friends. If I were unchristian toward people I disagreed with, I wouldn't pass on the Harry Potter customer to a staff member who would tell them what they were obviously wanting to hear. I didn't challenge them or call them a name, nor did I deny my own opinions/biases. That's called being an ADULT. You don't have to agree with me, and you can call me anything you like. What you think of me is none of my business. Better you call me names than someone it would bother.
> 
> As for the wedding cake thing, no it was not a case anywhere in Ireland I was referring to. We have such cases here in the US, and there are plenty of options for non-traditional couples to choose. As I mentioned, Scott Wooley is a mega-baker in New York City. Years ago, Mr. Wooley was an actor on one of the soap operas in New York City, and he made a cake for one of the "weddings" on the show. It was so beautiful that one of the actresses, who was getting married in real life, asked him to make her wedding cake. That cake brought him other customers, and in a very short time, he was a full-time baker, and an occasional actor. He also made a lot more money. He wrote a book called The World of Sugar Art which my store sold, and he also teaches his methods by Internet. Perhaps some gay/lesbian people in Ireland will be inspired by his work to give the couples there more options. I'm not opposed to that. It's called free enterprise. And if they are as talented as Mr. Wooley, I guarantee you there will be many traditional couples standing in the long lines for the services they offer. I might even be among them.


How sanctimonious of you!! You sound like the white person who goes on about having a 'black friend' so they don't seem bigoted. I grew up in a small town that was WASP and not much else. Most of those who stayed there haven't grown at all and still think they are better than anyone else.

Maybe that is why I like the PWF.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

jmcret05 said:


> How sanctimonious of you!!....Maybe that is why I like the PWF.


Like I said, jmcret05, it's called DISCERNMENT. And your inability to discern that those opinions that differ from yours are just as valid is why I stay away from PWF!!! I sure you're glad of that, but trust me, you're not half as glad as I am to stay out of it!!!

Happy Knitting!!!


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## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Like I said, jmcret05, it's called DISCERNMENT. And your inability to discern that those opinions that differ from yours are just as valid is why I stay away from PWF!!! I sure you're glad of that, but trust me, you're not half as glad as I am to stay out of it!!!
> 
> Happy Knitting!!!


dis·cern·ment
dəˈsərnmənt/Submit
noun
1.
the ability to judge well.
"an astonishing lack of discernment"
2.
(in Christian contexts) perception in the absence of judgment with a view to obtaining spiritual direction and understanding.
"without providing for a time of healing and discernment, there will be no hope of living through this present moment without a shattering of our common life"

I guess I'm just not discerning enough. Thank God!


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

Like I said, jmcret05, happy knitting.


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## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

vikicooks said:


> Kid Rock, complete with piercings, tats and long hair, is a Conservative and hard core Trump supporter. So is Ted Nugget.


Seems like we just had the Ted Nugent conversation.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Poor old eyes can't read mug. What does it say? Thanks.


it says ''Shhhhhh. My coffee & I are having a moment. I will deal with you later.''


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Kneonknitter's coffee mug reads "Shhhhhhhh....My coffee and I are having a moment. I will deal with you later."
> 
> I'll bet the one she sent her daughter was also hysterical!!!


Here ya go.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

judypfennemore said:


> Yes, I'm in total agreement with you; we're on the same page....live and let live!


 :sm24:


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to roll over and play dead, Celt Knitter!!! I didn't condemn anyone to hell. I just know where people are coming from when I see how they present themselves, and at times, what they are reading. It's called DISCERNMENT. Yes, I am a fundamentalist. Put it on a t-shirt, and I'll wear it. (As an aside, if I saw someone come to my store on a bicycle, I wouldn't be snooty with them over their sporting attire. The bike would alert me to the fact that they were involved in exercise at the time. Also, I don't think of sporting/exercising individuals as dirty. I admire them for having the energy and desire to get up and do something healthy.)
> 
> I find that most churches that object to the opinions I presented don't have enough of a coherent theology anymore that you can actually disagree with them. However, Jesus didn't say "Go ye into all the world, and agree with everyone so you don't give offense." Christianity has a definite viewpoint, and is exclusive of it's means of salvation. However, because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I have to be ugly. I have served and/or worked with people of many different faiths. We have asked each other questions about the real beliefs of our various denominations/faiths, and since no one has changed faith as a result, I take it that the other person didn't find my presentation anymore convincing than I found theirs. But neither one of us beat each other over the head with our holy book or slit each other's throat. In fact, believe it or not, we're all still friends. If I were unchristian toward people I disagreed with, I wouldn't pass on the Harry Potter customer to a staff member who would tell them what they were obviously wanting to hear. I didn't challenge them or call them a name, nor did I deny my own opinions/biases. That's called being an ADULT. You don't have to agree with me, and you can call me anything you like. What you think of me is none of my business. Better you call me names than someone it would bother.
> 
> As for the wedding cake thing, no it was not a case anywhere in Ireland I was referring to. We have such cases here in the US, and there are plenty of options for non-traditional couples to choose. As I mentioned, Scott Wooley is a mega-baker in New York City. Years ago, Mr. Wooley was an actor on one of the soap operas in New York City, and he made a cake for one of the "weddings" on the show. It was so beautiful that one of the actresses, who was getting married in real life, asked him to make her wedding cake. That cake brought him other customers, and in a very short time, he was a full-time baker, and an occasional actor. He also made a lot more money. He wrote a book called The World of Sugar Art which my store sold, and he also teaches his methods by Internet. Perhaps some gay/lesbian people in Ireland will be inspired by his work to give the couples there more options. I'm not opposed to that. It's called free enterprise. And if they are as talented as Mr. Wooley, I guarantee you there will be many traditional couples standing in the long lines for the services they offer. I might even be among them.


Yup, now I'm sure I like you.


----------



## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Or the "evil eye gloves," or the hillary t-shirt, or the bright green hair (or other color usually reserved to troll dolls) sitcking out from under their "kitty" hat, or the piercings, or the black fingernail polish....These style choices are up to the wearer, and they have the right to wear whatever they want. It doesn't make them bad, or mean they are unsafe drivers, criminals, or anything of the kind. What it does tell me is that I am unlikely to agree with the wearer on anything besides the desire to breath oxygen. In that case, I say little or nothing about my own preferences, and help the person as a customer however I can.
> 
> However, I feel that I have the right to express my opinion when asked. One customer in my store asked my opinion on "Harry Potter" which was a controversial topic at the time. Since it was a direct question to me personally, I told her that I had read the first book, but as a traditional Christian, I had reservations about it. I also told her that several others on our staff had read the books and loved them. I offered to let her talk to one or more of them in order to get their views. She took me up on it, and bought one of the series. That allowed me to acknowledge my concerns, admit my bias, and made available to my customer someone who gave her an opposing opinion to my own.
> 
> Again, it comes down to respect. I choose not to deal in stores where I'm likely to have an issue with something. Why put myself through it, or risk creating a scene. I just do a little more shopping, and buy elsewhere. It's like the gay wedding cake controversy. There are ever so many gay men involved in confectionery art. Scott Wooley comes to mind. Why would a gay/lesbian couple put themselves through all the angst of a court battle prior to their wedding--already a high stress situation, even for traditional couples--when they could go to a gay/lesbian baker. give support a minority business, and get a gorgeous cake?


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> Absolutely! At one point, the "do it yourself" movement was strong and healthy. Some of us have made it a way of life.....


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Here ya go.


"That's funny. I don't care who you are!!!" (I think that was a Larry the Cable Guy quote)


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> "That's funny. I don't care who you are!!!" (I think that was a Larry the Cable Guy quote)


 :sm24:


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Here ya go.


I've seen that cup before...LOL...one of my friends is a coffee fiend and she'd probably love it!!! :sm09:


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> :sm24:


Oh yeah...Larry the Cable Guy...he's something else... :sm09:


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

Geeezzzzzz - censorship, much ???


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> I've seen that cup before...LOL...one of my friends is a coffee fiend and she'd probably love it!!! :sm09:


 :sm09: I think I got it on Amazon. What don't I get on Amazon?? I'm addicted to it. :sm09: :sm09:


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> :sm09: I think I got it on Amazon. What don't I get on Amazon?? I'm addicted to it. :sm09: :sm09:


Me, too...I don't have Prime but my daughter does so I get Prime stuff on her Amazon.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Me, too...I don't have Prime but my daughter does so I get Prime stuff on her Amazon.


 :sm24:


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Last time I checked, sanctimoniousness was not a a Christian virtue, and you have it in spades. You criticize churches that do not agree with you as not having a coherent theology, but the arguments you use to support your views are both incoherent and illogical. If you knew anything about reading, you would not make make judgments about what people are like from what they read because people read for different purposes. The bike rider may have stolen the machine; he/she may be riding it from necessity to get somewhere; it may be his job to ride. You could apply Occam's razor to your evaluation, but you need more evidence otherwise you are likely to rely on stereotypes, which seems to be your default position. May I suggest Matthew 7:1 and John 8:15 as much better bases for Christianity that yours.


Rosewood11 said:


> Being a Christian doesn't mean you have to roll over and play dead, Celt Knitter!!! I didn't condemn anyone to hell. I just know where people are coming from when I see how they present themselves, and at times, what they are reading. It's called DISCERNMENT. Yes, I am a fundamentalist. Put it on a t-shirt, and I'll wear it. (As an aside, if I saw someone come to my store on a bicycle, I wouldn't be snooty with them over their sporting attire. The bike would alert me to the fact that they were involved in exercise at the time. Also, I don't think of sporting/exercising individuals as dirty. I admire them for having the energy and desire to get up and do something healthy.)
> 
> I find that most churches that object to the opinions I presented don't have enough of a coherent theology anymore that you can actually disagree with them. However, Jesus didn't say "Go ye into all the world, and agree with everyone so you don't give offense." Christianity has a definite viewpoint, and is exclusive of it's means of salvation. However, because I disagree with someone doesn't mean I have to be ugly. I have served and/or worked with people of many different faiths. We have asked each other questions about the real beliefs of our various denominations/faiths, and since no one has changed faith as a result, I take it that the other person didn't find my presentation anymore convincing than I found theirs. But neither one of us beat each other over the head with our holy book or slit each other's throat. In fact, believe it or not, we're all still friends. If I were unchristian toward people I disagreed with, I wouldn't pass on the Harry Potter customer to a staff member who would tell them what they were obviously wanting to hear. I didn't challenge them or call them a name, nor did I deny my own opinions/biases. That's called being an ADULT. You don't have to agree with me, and you can call me anything you like. What you think of me is none of my business. Better you call me names than someone it would bother.
> 
> As for the wedding cake thing, no it was not a case anywhere in Ireland I was referring to. We have such cases here in the US, and there are plenty of options for non-traditional couples to choose. As I mentioned, Scott Wooley is a mega-baker in New York City. Years ago, Mr. Wooley was an actor on one of the soap operas in New York City, and he made a cake for one of the "weddings" on the show. It was so beautiful that one of the actresses, who was getting married in real life, asked him to make her wedding cake. That cake brought him other customers, and in a very short time, he was a full-time baker, and an occasional actor. He also made a lot more money. He wrote a book called The World of Sugar Art which my store sold, and he also teaches his methods by Internet. Perhaps some gay/lesbian people in Ireland will be inspired by his work to give the couples there more options. I'm not opposed to that. It's called free enterprise. And if they are as talented as Mr. Wooley, I guarantee you there will be many traditional couples standing in the long lines for the services they offer. I might even be among them.


----------



## RobbiD (Nov 13, 2012)

jmcret05 said:


> How sanctimonious of you!! You sound like the white person who goes on about having a 'black friend' so they don't seem bigoted. I grew up in a small town that was WASP and not much else. Most of those who stayed there haven't grown at all and still think they are better than anyone else.
> 
> Maybe that is why I like the PWF.


Exactly the impression I got. Maybe she thinks that gay bakers should hang a sign declaring "gay bakery" so there should be no mistakes, and gay people won't walk into a heterosexual bakery? Personally, I tend to interact with people _before_ forming judgments about them. One cannot tell a book by its cover!


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

Celt Knitter said:


> ....(1) If you knew anything about reading, you would not make make judgments about what people are like from what they read because people read for different purposes...
> 
> ...(2) The bike rider may have stolen the machine; he/she may be riding it from necessity to get somewhere; it may be his job to ride.


Quote 1: And if you had ever worked in a bookstore, you'd know that what a person is reading is a pretty good indicator of what they like to read or may need to read about for a class. It helps the salesperson (me) to take them to the area of the store that they are initially looking for. It also tells me what at least some of their interests are. And yet again, clothing does help indicate what a person might be looking for. Unless someone wearing a kippah tells me he's looking for books on Christianity, I'd take him to the Judaica section. In the absence of a direct request by someone wearing sports clothing, I might start them off in sports. Young people dressed in "goth" or "punk" attire tend to start off in straight fiction or graphic novels. They may also be interested in Eastern Religions and other esoteric subjects like Ufology. As I know more about my customers--their job, likes and dislikes, etc.--I could even suggest new books that haven't yet been shelved. All of this comes from paying attention to the signals the customer gives off by their clothing--or their race/gender/sexuality (if applicable). There were black/women's/gay studies sections in my store. In the latter instance particularly, I'm not going to question the buyer about his/her personal preferences before taking him/her to a general section. If we don't initially find what the customer is looking there, I might ask again for the title and author, and search my catalog listings to see if they are in a more specialized section.
Soooooo, I do know a little about reading, and how to use a person's current reading material and other indicators of their interests to steer them to the right book--which also tells me something about their personalities and beliefs, as well. I may not agree with them on something, but I wasn't asked to agree. I was asked to help them find a book.

Quote 2: Obviously, you didn't read the thread, or you'd know the reference to the person on a bike was regarding a person who rode hers to a knitting store, and was given the cold shoulder in response to her appearance--to the point that the shop's owner wouldn't even let her touch the yarn in stock. And talk about pre-judging someone, why would I assume anyone had STOLEN the bike!?! i think you'd best look to your own prejudices, Celt Knitter!!!


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

jmcret05 wrote:
How sanctimonious of you!! You sound like the white person who goes on about having a 'black friend' so they don't seem bigoted.[/quote]



RobbiD said:


> Exactly the impression I got. Maybe she thinks that gay bakers should hang a sign declaring "gay bakery" so there should be no mistakes, and gay people won't walk into a heterosexual bakery? Personally, I tend to interact with people _before_ forming judgments about them. One cannot tell a book by its cover!


And this is another reason why I avoid the PWF and similar forums--liberal, conservative and independent. You will notice who is throwing insults here. I am a sanctimonius, racist, gay-basher to hear these two people tell it. 
Maybe "[o]ne cannot tell a book by its cover!" ladies, but I think I'm reading yours pretty clearly!


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

You attuide explains why one car company rep at a Major Car Deal Show was not interested in my looking at one of their expensive cars as I was dresssed in a pair of shorts and a mans T-shirt. He'd decided I wasn't his customer base. More fool him as I was indeed his customer base. Needless to say he lost my custom.

Never sterotype it can lead to some embrassing situations, egg left on your face or being connned.


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## RobbiD (Nov 13, 2012)

Rosewood11 said:


> jmcret05 wrote:
> How sanctimonious of you!! You sound like the white person who goes on about having a 'black friend' so they don't seem bigoted.


And this is another reason why I avoid the PWF and similar forums--liberal, conservative and independent. You will notice who is throwing insults here. I am a sanctimonius, racist, gay-basher to hear these two people tell it. 
Maybe "[o]ne cannot tell a book by its cover!" ladies, but I think I'm reading yours pretty clearly![/quote]

That appears to be the attitude that you project.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Rosewood11 said:


> Glad to hear that, SQM. God is still working in your life!!!


Roseood11....in your opinion what is A progressive? what is the opposite of a progresive?


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

Sorry to disappoint you, Imalulu. I'm done with this thread.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Wonderful.


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## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

Shouldn't this thread be taken to one of the political areas of KP


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Lisa BB said:


> Shouldn't this thread be taken to one of the political areas of KP


Perhaps it should, but we have no active Admin currently to carry out those chores, so I guess we deal with or overlook misplaced threads.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Rosewood11 said:


> Quote 1: And if you had ever worked in a bookstore, you'd know that what a person is reading is a pretty good indicator of what they like to read or may need to read about for a class. It helps the salesperson (me) to take them to the area of the store that they are initially looking for. It also tells me what at least some of their interests are. And yet again, clothing does help indicate what a person might be looking for. Unless someone wearing a kippah tells me he's looking for books on Christianity, I'd take him to the Judaica section. In the absence of a direct request by someone wearing sports clothing, I might start them off in sports. Young people dressed in "goth" or "punk" attire tend to start off in straight fiction or graphic novels. They may also be interested in Eastern Religions and other esoteric subjects like Ufology. As I know more about my customers--their job, likes and dislikes, etc.--I could even suggest new books that haven't yet been shelved. All of this comes from paying attention to the signals the customer gives off by their clothing--or their race/gender/sexuality (if applicable). There were black/women's/gay studies sections in my store. In the latter instance particularly, I'm not going to question the buyer about his/her personal preferences before taking him/her to a general section. If we don't initially find what the customer is looking there, I might ask again for the title and author, and search my catalog listings to see if they are in a more specialized section.
> Soooooo, I do know a little about reading, and how to use a person's current reading material and other indicators of their interests to steer them to the right book--which also tells me something about their personalities and beliefs, as well. I may not agree with them on something, but I wasn't asked to agree. I was asked to help them find a book.
> 
> Quote 2: Obviously, you didn't read the thread, or you'd know the reference to the person on a bike was regarding a person who rode hers to a knitting store, and was given the cold shoulder in response to her appearance--to the point that the shop's owner wouldn't even let her touch the yarn in stock. And talk about pre-judging someone, why would I assume anyone had STOLEN the bike!?! i think you'd best look to your own prejudices, Celt Knitter!!!


Sooooo....what if your book buying customer is buying for someone else...a homebound parent or a gift for a friend or a neighbor that asked if you could look for so & so, since you are going to the bookstore, anyway..... your discerning judgement goes awry here....oh, that's right, his or her clothes, hair, teeth, shoes,wrinkles will tell you what category to put them in.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

With apologies to those offended, here's an applicable quote by Dame Helen Mirren:

“‘At 70 years old, if I could give my younger self one piece of advice, it would be to use the words ‘f*** off’ much more frequently,” she told the Mail on Sunday.


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

Rosewood11 said:


> "That's funny. I don't care who you are!!!" (I think that was a Larry the Cable Guy quote)





Rosewood11 said:


> Sorry to disappoint you, Imalulu. I'm done with this thread.





Rosewood11 said:


> With apologies to those offended, here's an applicable quote by Dame Helen Mirren: *"At 70 years old, if I could give my younger self one piece of advice, it would be to use the words 'f*** off' much more frequently,"* she told the Mail on Sunday.


*Well, it looks like you weren't "done" soon enough - - you seem to be a closeted "nasty", hypocritically masquerading as a Christian...in quoting Helen Mirren's dropping of the F-bomb, or attaching an image of the mug below - - it doesn't divert one from realizing that the post and the image are representative of what's in your thoughts - - and it doesn't absolve you cuz someone else stated it or provided the photo. C'mon, admit it - -c'mon, that's the REAL you.*


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## Naughty Knitter (Apr 1, 2011)

I am always surprised at the number of women that resent having any other subject than knitting on KP. I belong to two knit groups in my community and when we get together we talk about everything. I think of KP as one big knitting group that includes many cultures, races, countries and so the interests other than knitting are varied. The more we get to know each other, just as in real life, we find other things to talk about to our friends. Since the subjects are placed into different groups, it is so easy to just subscribe to those of interest to you. Why stop other people from enjoying themselves???? 

If you belong to a knit group in your community do you permit talk about other subjects? If yes, why do you want it restricted on KP?


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Naughty Knitter said:


> I am always surprised at the number of women that resent having any other subject than knitting on KP. I belong to two knit groups in my community and when we get together we talk about everything. I think of KP as one big knitting group that includes many cultures, races, countries and so the interests other than knitting are varied. The more we get to know each other, just as in real life, we find other things to talk about to our friends. Since the subjects are placed into different groups, it is so easy to just subscribe to those of interest to you. Why stop other people from enjoying themselves????
> 
> If you belong to a knit group in your community do you permit talk about other subjects? If yes, why do you want it restricted on KP?


Excellent observation and questions.


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## eneira12 (Dec 18, 2013)

Thank you for saying this. I think you can see by the 24 pages of responses that you are in the majority.


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

eneira12 said:


> Thank you for saying this. I think you can see by the 24 pages of responses that you are in the majority.


WHO are you thanking for saying WHAT - - and who is in the majority ??? It would really be so very helpful if you would use Quote Reply to allow everyone to understand just whom you're addressing...
___________


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

KroSha said:


> WHO are you thanking for saying WHAT - - and who is in the majority ??? It would really be so very helpful if you would use Quote Reply to allow everyone to understand just whom you're addressing...
> ___________


I was thinking the same thing....if you're only going by the number of pages and thanking the OP then you'd be wrong...there are a few who agreed with her but the majority are opposed to her statement.


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

Phoenix said:



> I was thinking the same thing....if you're only going by the number of pages and thanking the OP then you'd be wrong...there are a few who agreed with her but the majority are opposed to her statement.


Yes indeed - - seemed like a fair question.

(ps - - love your ellie puppet - - this isn't a puppet, but it is my avatar on another forum...)


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## Caxton (Mar 26, 2013)

M30Knitting said:


> I sent the attached message to the Administrator of KP, but have not received a reply. I'm not a political activator, but was dismayed to see the addition of this topic on KP. I can get this viewpoint on the Huffington Post or any other liberal Progressive website. Why must it be included on a knitting and crochet forum? I am a very highly educated professional woman who considers herself to be fiscally conservative, patriotic, and a loyal tax paying citizen, but at the same time, I do not want a "conservative women's" viewpoint on KP either. I entered this forum to read and learn about a craft I dearly love, not to discuss politics.
> 
> My unanswered note to KP administrator:
> 
> ...


You can still enjoy KP, just dont look at the sections that you dont like. It seems a bit unfair of you to want to take away any section that many others enjoy though.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

KroSha said:


> Yes indeed - - seemed like a fair question.
> 
> (ps - - love your ellie puppet - - this isn't a puppet, but it is my avatar on another forum...)


Awwww....I love elephants, especially baby ones!


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## mea (Jan 21, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> Awwww....I love elephants, especially baby ones!


Did you all see the clip posted here recently of the baby elephant giggling? OMG it is the sweetest!
http://pickle.nine.com.au/2018/04/05/13/04/baby-elephant-giggles-cute


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

mea said:


> Did you all see the clip posted here recently of the baby elephant giggling? OMG it is the sweetest!
> http://pickle.nine.com.au/2018/04/05/13/04/baby-elephant-giggles-cute


It sounded frustrated to me.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

mea said:


> Did you all see the clip posted here recently of the baby elephant giggling? OMG it is the sweetest!
> http://pickle.nine.com.au/2018/04/05/13/04/baby-elephant-giggles-cute


That's cute!.....Actually, I thought the giggling was a real baby.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Rosewood11 said:


> Quote 1: And if you had ever worked in a bookstore, you'd know that what a person is reading is a pretty good indicator of what they like to read or may need to read about for a class. It helps the salesperson (me) to take them to the area of the store that they are initially looking for. It also tells me what at least some of their interests are. And yet again, clothing does help indicate what a person might be looking for. Unless someone wearing a kippah tells me he's looking for books on Christianity, I'd take him to the Judaica section. In the absence of a direct request by someone wearing sports clothing, I might start them off in sports. Young people dressed in "goth" or "punk" attire tend to start off in straight fiction or graphic novels. They may also be interested in Eastern Religions and other esoteric subjects like Ufology. As I know more about my customers--their job, likes and dislikes, etc.--I could even suggest new books that haven't yet been shelved. All of this comes from paying attention to the signals the customer gives off by their clothing--or their race/gender/sexuality (if applicable). There were black/women's/gay studies sections in my store. In the latter instance particularly, I'm not going to question the buyer about his/her personal preferences before taking him/her to a general section. If we don't initially find what the customer is looking there, I might ask again for the title and author, and search my catalog listings to see if they are in a more specialized section.
> Soooooo, I do know a little about reading, and how to use a person's current reading material and other indicators of their interests to steer them to the right book--which also tells me something about their personalities and beliefs, as well. I may not agree with them on something, but I wasn't asked to agree. I was asked to help them find a book.
> 
> Quote 2: Obviously, you didn't read the thread, or you'd know the reference to the person on a bike was regarding a person who rode hers to a knitting store, and was given the cold shoulder in response to her appearance--to the point that the shop's owner wouldn't even let her touch the yarn in stock. And talk about pre-judging someone, why would I assume anyone had STOLEN the bike!?! i think you'd best look to your own prejudices, Celt Knitter!!!


I guess I'm an abnormal book shopper. I wander around and pick whatever takes my fancy that day. It's not always the same genre as I am reading at the moment, and I do the same thing when looking for a book in a public library.

I have always resisted being classed in anyone's preconceived 'file' - _ever_.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Naughty Knitter said:


> I am always surprised at the number of women that resent having any other subject than knitting on KP. I belong to two knit groups in my community and when we get together we talk about everything. I think of KP as one big knitting group that includes many cultures, races, countries and so the interests other than knitting are varied. The more we get to know each other, just as in real life, we find other things to talk about to our friends. Since the subjects are placed into different groups, it is so easy to just subscribe to those of interest to you. Why stop other people from enjoying themselves????
> 
> If you belong to a knit group in your community do you permit talk about other subjects? If yes, why do you want it restricted on KP?


That is the difference between a Knitting Guild and a group of yarn-players. 
Knitting Guild: Robert's Rules of Order, more time spent on such 'business' than on actual interactions between knitters/crocheters, obligation to pay dues, limited number of meetings per year. The Montreal Knitting Guild meets 10 times a year, but not in summer - when the likelihood of bad weather preventing knitters from attending is far less than in winter!

Knitting group: no dues, meetings when, where, and for however long everyone decides, conversations about knitting and anything else that comes to mind. The group I'm most active with meets every Sunday morning, supposedly from 10 o'clock until noon, but the first arrival is closer to 8:30 and the last departure has been as late as 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The management of the food court where we meet has no objections to those who bring their own coffee and eats; many do buy from the market.

There *are* strictly on-topic yarny groups. 
Before KP, I used to haunt them, but there was rarely the sense of community we seem to have on KP. 
Since KP, I don't visit the other groups as often as once a year, though I haven't deleted my membership ... just in case KP ever folds - same reason I joined the KP splinter groups on Ravelry. I would like to stay in contact with many of those I've 'met' on KP.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Naughty Knitter said:


> I am always surprised at the number of women that resent having any other subject than knitting on KP. I belong to two knit groups in my community and when we get together we talk about everything. I think of KP as one big knitting group that includes many cultures, races, countries and so the interests other than knitting are varied. The more we get to know each other, just as in real life, we find other things to talk about to our friends. Since the subjects are placed into different groups, it is so easy to just subscribe to those of interest to you. Why stop other people from enjoying themselves????
> 
> If you belong to a knit group in your community do you permit talk about other subjects? If yes, why do you want it restricted on KP?


My group covers every subject imaginable & then some!! For many of us, Sundays are the only day of the week we get to have a 'hen party' & no subject is taboo. And no, we do not agree on everything, but, we all agree to disagree & after 4 years we all love & respect each other immensely.


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## Hannelore (Oct 26, 2011)

bokemom said:


> It doesn't bother me that there is a section for that. There are a lot of sections on kp that I never see because they don't interest me. The problem lately is the mia administrator that doesn't keep things where they belong. When I first started kp if I posted in the wrong section I was sure to hear about it.


I agree with you. I remember many times admin told me that they had either moved a topic or deleted it because it did not seem appropriate to KP.


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## siegi (Jan 7, 2016)

My view exactly! This is not for placing political views, I think we enjoy seeing a nd hearing about all the many different things that people are knitting, crocheting, and I for one am learning about.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Oh for goodness sake can people not understand they do not dictate what can and can't be on this forum.

It is the Owner of the Forum who decides. If you don't like what the Owner has set up you do not have to use it.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Oh for goodness sake can people not understand they do not dictate what can and can't be on this forum.
> 
> It is the Owner of the Forum who decides. If you don't like what the Owner has set up you do not have to use it.


I think the people who are posting stuff now are just reading the OP's original post and going no further.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> I think the people who are posting stuff now are just reading the OP's original post and going no further.


Exactly. I imagine those are the folks who _only_ access KP from the (useless, in my opinion) daily digest, which some seem to allow to accumulate for weeks or months before they open the e-mail. As a result, they comment very late on topics and seem to never read beyond the initial post.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> Exactly. I imagine those are the folks who _only_ access KP from the (useless, in my opinion) daily digest, which some seem to allow to accumulate for weeks or months before they open the e-mail. As a result, they comment very late on topics and seem to never read beyond the initial post.


I do get the daily digest but I open it a couple of times a day and read the ones I'm interested in. But I do try to read all or most of the topic to get a feel of what's being said. I do try to go deep into the Attic to see what all is being discussed at least once a week.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

Phoenix said:


> I do get the daily digest but I open it a couple of times a day and read the ones I'm interested in. But I do try to read all or most of the topic to get a feel of what's being said. I do try to go deep into the Attic to see what all is beeing discussed at least once a week.


You are the exception to the norm.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

Jessica-Jean said:


> You are the exception to the norm.


Oh, I think there are a few more like me...you are one of them, too!


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## Lisa BB (Jun 28, 2017)

Hannelore said:


> I agree with you. I remember many times admin told me that they had either moved a topic or deleted it because it did not seem appropriate to KP.


When i first joined i was really good at getting things into the wromg area. I was notified immediately.

Hope i am doing better now


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

Aisles said:


> Oh for goodness sake can people not understand they do not dictate what can and can't be on this forum.
> 
> It is the Owner of the Forum who decides. If you don't like what the Owner has set up you do not have to use it.


Exactamundo !!!
__________


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## KroSha (Oct 25, 2013)

Phoenix said:


> I think the people who are posting stuff now are just reading the OP's original post and going no further.


Probably true Phoenix.

Too many pages...
___________


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

KroSha said:


> Probably true Phoenix.
> 
> Too many pages...
> ___________


LOL...Probably, for a lot of people. But I'm retired and handicapped so I have a LOT of time to kill sometimes. And when I do have things to do, I take breaks and come back to the subject and keep reading. I figured out this method awhile back when I actually did post too soon and someone told me to keep reading and find out what else was said. I took that to heart. About the only time I don't read an entire subject is when I'm just too tired to catch up.

Edited to add:....or if there is a lot of someone posting LONG diatribes with lots of red and blue BIG lettered words, spouting the same things over and over and over again!!!....those I either scroll past or just unwatch!


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## LizR (Jan 17, 2015)

Phoenix said:


> LOL...Probably, for a lot of people. But I'm retired and handicapped so I have a LOT of time to kill sometimes. And when I do have things to do, I take breaks and come back to the subject and keep reading. I figured out this method awhile back when I actually did post too soon and someone told me to keep reading and find out what else was said. I took that to heart. About the only time I don't read an entire subject is when I'm just too tired to catch up.
> 
> Edited to add:....or if there is a lot of someone posting LONG diatribes with lots of red and blue BIG lettered words, spouting the same things over and over and over again!!!....those I either scroll past or just unwatch!


Love your edit. Perfectly said.


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## Phoenix (Oct 2, 2011)

LizR said:


> Love your edit. Perfectly said.


 :sm17:


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Phoenix said:


> LOL...Probably, for a lot of people. But I'm retired and handicapped so I have a LOT of time to kill sometimes. And when I do have things to do, I take breaks and come back to the subject and keep reading. I figured out this method awhile back when I actually did post too soon and someone told me to keep reading and find out what else was said. I took that to heart. About the only time I don't read an entire subject is when I'm just too tired to catch up.
> 
> Edited to add:....or if there is a lot of someone posting LONG diatribes with lots of red and blue BIG lettered words, spouting the same things over and over and over again!!!....those I either scroll past or just unwatch!


Yes I think you must be correct.

I do the same thing as you.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> That is the difference between a Knitting Guild and a group of yarn-players.
> Knitting Guild: Robert's Rules of Order, more time spent on such 'business' than on actual interactions between knitters/crocheters, obligation to pay dues, limited number of meetings per year. The Montreal Knitting Guild meets 10 times a year, but not in summer - when the likelihood of bad weather preventing knitters from attending is far less than in winter!
> 
> Knitting group: no dues, meetings when, where, and for however long everyone decides, conversations about knitting and anything else that comes to mind. The group I'm most active with meets every Sunday morning, supposedly from 10 o'clock until noon, but the first arrival is closer to 8:30 and the last departure has been as late as 3 o'clock in the afternoon. The management of the food court where we meet has no objections to those who bring their own coffee and eats; many do buy from the market.
> ...


What/where are the Ravelry splinter groups? I looked the other day, but couldn't find any.


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## Jessica-Jean (Mar 14, 2011)

imalulu said:


> What/where are the Ravelry splinter groups? I looked the other day, but couldn't find any.


First: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/the-attic
Second: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/knitting-and-crocheting-paradise
Third: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/connections-4

If there are others, I'm unaware of them.

All three were knee-jerk reactions to the idea that perhaps KP was going to vanish overnight, and that feeling was/is due to the fact that Admin seems to be doing little - if any - administrating since around Christmastime. 
PMs to Admin never even read.
Misplaced topics never moved to their correct sections.
Porn posted - not deleted.
Pure SPAM posted - not deleted.
Return of previously booted member(s) without rebooting.
Posting of items for sale in the classifieds without the necessary qualifications for posting in that section.
And probably some other markers of innattention that I haven't noticed.


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## imalulu (May 19, 2013)

Jessica-Jean said:


> First: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/the-attic
> Second: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/knitting-and-crocheting-paradise
> Third: https://www.ravelry.com/groups/connections-4
> 
> ...


Oops, sorry was PMing you at same time!!

Thank you


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