# OMG! Yarn prices



## pavasa

I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


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## BobnDejasMom

You would also need to have better knitting skills than mine.


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## Intheknow

I think I'll pass on these.


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## blessedinMO

No joke! It is no longer an inexpensive hobby. I have to think twice if I can afford to knit a cuddly cardigan which I could buy off the rack at 1/2 the money.


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## grannybell

Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


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## kwright

I don't use the really expensive stuff. I use Red Heart, but even it is also going up. It runs $3.99 at the Red Heart website. I used a 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby and got a skein for $1.99. I know that does not compare to anything that you do, but for what it is worth, all I knit is given away.


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## Knitcrazydeborah

pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


Yup - the nicer stuff is "knock your socks off expensive". 
I check my Tuesday Morning store regularly and snuggle up to my favorite clerk and purrrrrr :
"Do ya'll happen to know when the next big yarn sale will be?" 
She often gives me a tip, and I make sure I'm there when the store opens up. Sometimes they get really REALLY nice yarn. I recently found some truly wonderful merino/angora/silk by KFI for half price. By calling the 800 number for TM I found several more skeins & have enough to knit my DH a sweater for Christmas.
If you have a Tuesday Morning in San Antonio, check out their yarn. Sometimes you get a real deal.


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## kiwiannie

Regardless of how well you do or don't knit, I don't think any yarn is worth that amount of money.


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## In Memory of Scottybear

kiwiannie said:


> Regardless of how well you do or don't knit, I don't think any yarn is worth that amount of money.


 :thumbup: I agree. I think twice about paying the price for our Patons wool. It has to be for my DH otherwise I'm afraid charity knitting gets the cheaper yarn.


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## AuntVay

I agree!! I just ordered supplies for a sweater for Christmas requested by my daughter for her fiance. He's a big man. Lots of yards. Lots of skeins. Found Wool Ease for under $4 per skein, so I'm feeling lucky. I don't want to put a lot of work into a sweater or afghan and use unsatisfactory materials. Gone are the days when you knit (or sewed) your own clothing in order to save money. It is truly a hobby now.


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## Mary Su 2

As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time. 
http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


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## South Africa

Now in South Africa with the exchange rate you need to multiply that amount by 10 for dallars and by 16 for pounds.
R600 for one skein of wool, I spend that on groceries for a week or two.
The most I can afford is $6 dollars for a ball of sock wool, $2.50 for a ball of cotton yarn and $2.50 for synthetic.


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## suzy-kate

In my case some of the more expensive yarns are just for looking at, or for making an item out of a single ball. I often buy discontinued yarns on line at less than half the normal cost and will often see them still at the full price for months after in my LYS, can't blame them when they've obtained them prior to being discontinued.


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## AnnemariesKnitting

I order most of my wool in England and is a lot cheaper.


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## islandgirl81

I was just noticing the prices too. Even if I did have the money to splurge, I always think of the what ifs......what if I made a mistake and didn't notice it until it was too late, what if something spilled on it that wouldn't come out in the wash, what if......................
Free shipping with the purchase of only one skein!!
I wonder what that yarn "feels" like.
Can you imagine how many skeins of other yarn you could buy with that much money?


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## seedstitch

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


..and before you raise the sheep, etc., you must have the land, the fencing, the shelter, the feed, the time to tend the animals. I prefer to just knit the yarn someone else labored for. But right now I'm longing for $$$s for yarn for a new warm wool sweater.


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## cbjlinda

Those prices will remain only as long as there are people silly enough to pay them.


pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


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## Valanteen

And a Shrink. That's nuts!


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## cydneyjo

Went to that site, Marysue, and it looks amazing. Does anyone know what "cobweb weight" yarn is?


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## Sagarika

In Indid (where I live, I have to multiply it by 60 . So you can imagine my plight. I find KNIT PICKS yarn VERY GOOD. I used their ALOFT (3threads) and also their sport wt BABY ALPACA . Produced excellent garments.


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## Sagarika

I live in INDIA. Sorry for the printing error.


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## past

Last winter I helped a woman that I met knit a hat with musk ox yarn she picked up while vacationing in Alaska. She said that normally she would never spend that kind of money on yarn, but felt it would be a great keepsake from her trip. It was so luxurious knitting with it. I felt like my hands were getting softer with each stitch. The pattern she bought used 2 ounces of yarn. The pattern and yarn to make the hat cost her $85.


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## Bucketknitter

Yarn can be very expensive. I have decided that the hunt for bargains is going to become a fun part of the process, just like the hunt for the perfect pattern, or the neatest stitch markers, tools, and storage for everything that I have accumulated due to my knitting and crocheting addiction.

When my SO and I were on vacation in Canada, I splurged on some alpaca yarn in a small shop in Quebec City. On the way home we were going to be within about 50 miles of the big WEBS store in Northhampton, Massachusetts. We made that side trip and after drooling about all the gorgeous yarn in the front of the store, I discovered the warehouse with their close out section. 
I found some gorgeous yarns for $2.00 to $3.00 per skein with 200 to 300 yards each. I bought a lot! I smile now when I know that this great Pi shawl that I made of wonderfully soft merino wool cost me $8.00 for the approximately 800 yards that I used.

So, the bargain searches are on!!

Karen


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## Bucketknitter

cydneyjo said:


> Went to that site, Marysue, and it looks amazing. Does anyone know what "cobweb weight" yarn is?


It's a very thin lace weight yarn, smaller in circumference than regular size 00 lace weight.

Karen


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## cydneyjo

Yes, Bucketknitter, WEBS is amazing. It wasn't there when I went to school in a neighboring town, but now, when I visit my daughter in Albany, we always make a trip.


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## cydneyjo

Bucketknitter said:


> It's a very thin lace weight yarn, smaller in circumference than regular size 00 lace weight.
> 
> Karen


Wow!. Have you made anything with it? Is it difficult to knit with? I've got all these lovely bamboo interchangeables, but wonder what size needle it would take.


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## pstabach

Yep! Some yarn prices are just out of reach. Most everything I buy has been deeply discounted before I even consider buying it.


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## gwennieh68

I agree with what everyone says and yet I've always had a longing to make a sweater for myself out of truly luxurious, expensive yarn. Haven't yet and probably never will, but it still sits there in the back of my mind, then I too think of "what if's." What if it got thrown in the washer and dryer by mistake!!


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## nuclearfinz

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


Lots of work and time. Buying the yarn would be cheaper. Spinning is wonderful and you get a one of a kind yarn but it is a very expensive hobby. There is a reason some of those yarns are expensive.


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## peachy51

Craftsy does have some expensive yarns, but they also have some incredible sales.

I just bought 20 balls of Crystal Palace Monaco from them for $1.37 per ball ... Jimmy Beans Wool regularly has it for $7.60 a ball and they have it on sale right now for $3.80 a ball. So I got it from Craftsy for less than half of Jimmy Beans' sale price!


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## betty boivin

Have you tried DBNY..they have a virtual bargain basement.. I bought some beautiful yarn..normally priced at 13$/ ball for 2$....am now waiting on another order for suri lace. Mohair..reg 26/skein for 13$.. Beautiful handpainted mohair. Worth looking at!


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## Bucketknitter

cydneyjo said:


> Wow!. Have you made anything with it? Is it difficult to knit with? I've got all these lovely bamboo interchangeables, but wonder what size needle it would take.


I haven't used it, yet. Most patterns that I see call for a size 0 needle, but if the stitches are to be blocked aggressively as in some shawls to give a REALLY
lacy stitch definition, I have seen sizes up to a five used.

Karen


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## aquaciser1

MarySu I just checked out colourmart!! I looked at the bargains. I can't wait to come up with a project now!!! Have you knit with the yarn yet and if not when you do can you let us all know how you liked working with it.

Thanks for the site.


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## dgoll

I sign up at all the yarn websites, then I get an email when they have sales (which is often)! Sometimes they have flash sales as well. Knitting becomes very affordable this way. My apologies to the LYS, but the closest to me is quite a ways away!


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## Kathymacau

Mary Su 2 said:


> As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time.
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


Wow, this site is great, prices are including postage and metreage are clear to see. Thanks.


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## pheonas

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Yup - the nicer stuff is "knock your socks off expensive".
> I check my Tuesday Morning store regularly and snuggle up to my favorite clerk and purrrrrr :
> "Do ya'll happen to know when the next big yarn sale will be?"
> She often gives me a tip, and I make sure I'm there when the store opens up. Sometimes they get really REALLY nice yarn. I recently found some truly wonderful merino/angora/silk by KFI for half price. By calling the 800 number for TM I found several more skeins & have enough to knit my DH a sweater for Christmas.
> If you have a Tuesday Morning in San Antonio, check out their yarn. Sometimes you get a real deal.


I found that same yarn at Tuesday Morning in Ponte Vedra and another in Jacksonville, never would have paid retail price. It really is lovely.


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## Sagarika

I agree with Gwennieh68. I too want to knit a beautiful sweater or coat with a REALLY LUXURIOUS yarn for my granddaughter. I am 76 so entitled to some splurge. Has anyone tried ARTYARN's cashmere?


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## Bucketknitter

Sagarika said:


> I agree with Gwennieh68. I too want to knit a beautiful sweater or coat with a REALLY LUXURIOUS yarn for my granddaughter. I am 76 so entitled to some splurge. Has anyone tried ARTYARN's cashmere?


I haven't tried it, but I have been drooling over it. One day I am going to get some, but not until my stash gets a bit more 'busted', LOL!!

Karen


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## Brianna9301

Now, I like nice yarn, but this is just way too expensive, unless if it was a skein of like, 1,000 yards then maybe. But just 150 yards, that is just too much money in my opinion.....


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## AmyKnits

I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page). 

Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.

I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.

I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.

Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can. 

If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


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## courier770

Producing luxury yarns is no "cheap" endeavor. Let's take Alpaca for instance. You must have the land before you can have the animals, then there is the cost of the animals AND the cost to maintain them (not just food but veterinary care). Shearing is a labor intensive job and usually involves bringing in shearers, then there is the cleaning and processing of the fleece (another job this is most generally contracted out). Next comes the carding, followed by spinning. At this point quite a bit of expense has been involved and not one yard of yarn has been sold.

The cost of and maintaining commercial machinery to actually spin the yarn is quite high. Labels for the yarn must be purchased. Next comes the cost of shipping the yarn to retail locations. Again at this point no yarn has actually been sold but a lot of people have put labor and $$ into the process....this is how they make their living.

On other threads I've heard people say they will only pay so many "pennies" per yard. Really? Do you work for pennies?

Yes yarn can be expensive, depending upon the fiber involved, the dye process, WHERE it is manufactured and by who. All figure into the equation of price. 

To those who think yarn is overpriced, I suggest you invest in a spinning wheel yourself (they are expensive) and try your hand at spinning your own yarn. It's not easy and more importantly it's not cheap.


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## peachy51

I was sitting here thinking that I wish I had a WEBS close to me. And then the thought hit me that I'm probably pretty fortunate that I don't ... I would probably be in the poor house pretty quickly. 

I just bought several balls of alpaca from them last night. Found some pretty good prices and their shipping is quite reasonable. I love the alpaca for gloves and socks and it doesn't take much of it to make those small items.


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## Lizruork

Kathymacau said:


> Wow, this site is great, prices are including postage and metreage are clear to see. Thanks.


i buy from colourmart often... i got 3000 yards of italian fingering weight cashmere for 2 commission projects last year for 160.00 .shipped to my door.... susan and richard are lovely and wil send samples of yarns if you are looking for something very particular....

you have to read the website carefully... their yarns come from european mills who spin yarn for the garment industry.... some for knitting some more suited for weaving.... all arrive with mill oil still on them.... so when you open the package looking for luscious yarn you get something that looks like string lol.... dont despair... swatch and soak in hot hot water and suitable detergent (i use shampoo often or even dishwashing liquid ) and out comes the revealed and beautiful yarn you dreamed of...

the other challenge is that you can ask them to take finer weight yarns and twist them together for heavier weights... so if you are looking for a fingering weight yarn they will twist up 2 laceweight 2 ply yarns for you... they made up an aran weight yarn for me from 2 strands of fingering and 2 strands of laceweight.....

here is their explanation pf what they can do
http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options

and last challenge... they are currently moving form one website colourmart to another colourmart2 and i am not sure how long it will take to complete the operation lol....
i usually look at both sites to try and find what i need...

you can get onto the email notifications... when new yarns, especially exciting colours, arrive the stocks get whisked into shopping baskets v quickly....

well that i smy testimonial...

aas to the craftsy yarns... the really expensive one seems to be this miss babs.... and they dont seem on first sight that much different form a lot of hand dyed yarns available at much better prices..... is there supposed to be something v special about them????


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## dgoll

Also, check the yardage. Some yarns look cheap but have little yardage. Others look expensive but have tons of yardage, which is great for projects where you don't want to join yarn.


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## zebe

courier770 said:


> Producing luxury yarns is no "cheap" endeavor. Let's take Alpaca for instance. You must have the land before you can have the animals, then there is the cost of the animals AND the cost to maintain them (not just food but veterinary care). Shearing is a labor intensive job and usually involves bringing in shearers, then there is the cleaning and processing of the fleece (another job this is most generally contracted out). Next comes the carding, followed by spinning. At this point quite a bit of expense has been involved and not one yard of yarn has been sold.
> 
> The cost of and maintaining commercial machinery to actually spin the yarn is quite high. Labels for the yarn must be purchased. Next comes the cost of shipping the yarn to retail locations. Again at this point no yarn has actually been sold but a lot of people have put labor and $$ into the process....this is how they make their living.
> 
> On other threads I've heard people say they will only pay so many "pennies" per yard. Really? Do you work for pennies?
> 
> Yes yarn can be expensive, depending upon the fiber involved, the dye process, WHERE it is manufactured and by who. All figure into the equation of price.
> 
> To those who think yarn is overpriced, I suggest you invest in a spinning wheel yourself (they are expensive) and try your hand at spinning your own yarn. It's not easy and more importantly it's not cheap.


 :thumbup:


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## dachsmom

Lizruork said:


> i buy from colourmart often... i got 3000 yards of italian fingering weight cashmere for 2 commission projects last year for 160.00 .shipped to my door.... susan and richard are lovely and wil send samples of yarns if you are looking for something very particular....
> 
> you have to read the website carefully... their yarns come from european mills who spin yarn for the garment industry.... some for knitting some more suited for weaving.... all arrive with mill oil still on them.... so when you open the package looking for luscious yarn you get something that looks like string lol.... dont despair... swatch and soak in hot hot water and suitable detergent (i use shampoo often or even dishwashing liquid ) and out comes the revealed and beautiful yarn you dreamed of...
> 
> the other challenge is that you can ask them to take finer weight yarns and twist them together for heavier weights... so if you are looking for a fingering weight yarn they will twist up 2 laceweight 2 ply yarns for you... they made up an aran weight yarn for me from 2 strands of fingering and 2 strands of laceweight.....
> 
> here is their explanation pf what they can do
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options
> 
> and last challenge... they are currently moving form one website colourmart to another colourmart2 and i am not sure how long it will take to complete the operation lol....
> i usually look at both sites to try and find what i need...
> 
> you can get onto the email notifications... when new yarns, especially exciting colours, arrive the stocks get whisked into shopping baskets v quickly....
> 
> well that i smy testimonial...
> 
> aas to the craftsy yarns... the really expensive one seems to be this miss babs.... and they dont seem on first sight that much different form a lot of hand dyed yarns available at much better prices..... is there supposed to be something v special about them????


Miss babs is wonderful yarn! Very soft and gorgeous colors. Hers is priced like the small individual dyers on etsy, more expensive but not mass produced in quantity like the big companies


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## mperrone

Not everything pricey is always the best. I don't think I'd ever, ever pay that for a skein of yarn.


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## jangail719

AmyKnits said:


> I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page).
> 
> Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.
> 
> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.
> 
> Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can.
> 
> If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


Your thoughts about giving items made with more expensive yarn to charity are very noble. I am too practical, I guess, and I can't bear the thought of something I've made living on someone's floor, stepped on, used for rags, etc. I am thinking of my daughter's family and I would never give them anything made from an expensive yarn.


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## Angelsmom1

kwright said:


> I don't use the really expensive stuff. I use Red Heart, but even it is also going up. It runs $3.99 at the Red Heart website. I used a 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby and got a skein for $1.99. I know that does not compare to anything that you do, but for what it is worth, all I knit is given away.


The Red Heart store is high then you add shipping. I found a site that carries alot of Red Heart yarns is www.cutratecrafts.com They have quite a selection.


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## tamarque

betty boivin said:


> Have you tried DBNY..they have a virtual bargain basement.. I bought some beautiful yarn..normally priced at 13$/ ball for 2$....am now waiting on another order for suri lace. Mohair..reg 26/skein for 13$.. Beautiful handpainted mohair. Worth looking at!


Ah yes, the Suri Lace. I drooled over that a couple of days but knew stopping at the Springfield, Ma fiber fair was going to cost me--and it did! Even buying discount items there, I blew more money than I want to think about.


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## tamarque

Sagarika said:


> I agree with Gwennieh68. I too want to knit a beautiful sweater or coat with a REALLY LUXURIOUS yarn for my granddaughter. I am 76 so entitled to some splurge. Has anyone tried ARTYARN's cashmere?


I sniffed it in (LOL)


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## Doubledee

jangail719 said:


> Your thoughts about giving items made with more expensive yarn to charity are very noble. I am too practical, I guess, and I can't bear the thought of something I've made living on someone's floor, stepped on, used for rags, etc. I am thinking of my daughter's family and I would never give them anything made from an expensive yarn.


I agree with you. Most expensive yarns require special washing or care instructions. That expensively made donated item may get ruined the first time they wash it!


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## tamarque

The main problem with yarn prices is that cost of production continues to rise but our incomes do not. This whole discussion can be put under the title "An example of the consequences of increasing income disparity."


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## Linda6885

You may have misread some of the prices stated. Their prices are for kits and more than one skein. I found some yarn sold by the skein, but reasonably priced. I may have missed some, I only did a quick look.


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## Happycamper

I agree with all! While I love to look at and touch those expensive yarns, they are out of MY pocketbook's reach! I always find what I need at Walmart or Hobby Lobby. But even those prices have gone up....


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## dijewe

peachy51 said:


> I was sitting here thinking that I wish I had a WEBS close to me. And then the thought hit me that I'm probably pretty fortunate that I don't ... I would probably be in the poor house pretty quickly.


LOL, I was thinking the same thing. I love that store so much


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## thumper5316

It's getting ridiculous. I've gotten to the point that I'm diving into my stash more and more often. I'm glad that I've built up a good one. It'll keep me happily knitting for years.


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## Special Things

I would like to add that most of what you were looking at was probably hand spun/hand dyed yarn. One really needs to know the process that the yarn goes through to get to what you see. A lot is called art or fun yarn. It is not meant to make a whole garment. I purchased a hank of this type of yarn and used part of it to add interest to a scarf and trim around a jacket. Of course there is the cashmere and yak and a couple of other yarns that are pricey. But even though they also can be used for small luxury items. You can get several from one hank. Dianne L


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## Melodypop

Thank you, I was happy to register for their news letter.



Mary Su 2 said:


> As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time.
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


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## AmyKnits

Doubledee said:


> I agree with you. Most expensive yarns require special washing or care instructions. That expensively made donated item may get ruined the first time they wash it!


I must disagree... Firstly, I knit hats for our patients who are going through chemo. I knit them with the finest yarns I can find that will be soft, warm and breathable. I include a sample of Eucalan along with washing instructions.

IF I were knitting for homeless or such more "needy" individuals, I can use superwash wools which are JUST as easy care as acrylic which does NOT provide adequate warmth. I am understanding that homeless people spend a quantity of time outdoors, so a warmer donated item makes more sense.

There are hundreds of quality yarns that are just as easy care as "cheap" yarns.

Again, the item I donate to a homeless person may be the nicest thing they own and likely all they have to give warmth and comfort. It MAY get lost, it MAY get ruined, it MAY be stolen. If I did worry about what happens to items I donate to charity, I would write a check instead.

I have no control over those things. I can control what I consider CHARITY. I would never expect anyone to wear something I wouldn't wear myself.


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## Pishi

I am so lucky that I live fairly close to the SWTC warehouse. I found it just as I was branching into nicer yarns. I have purchased both on regular days and on terrific sales. I now have a small stash.


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## AmyKnits

tamarque said:


> The main problem with yarn prices is that cost of production continues to rise but our incomes do not. This whole discussion can be put under the title "An example of the consequences of increasing income disparity."


One of the reasons that costs of production goes up is because wages go up! I know the minimum wage is going up here again, so it is all relative.... Part of living in a free economy.

We could complain, OR take advantage of the many resources available to find great yarn at bargain prices!


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## Ronie

I just don't know how they justify the cost or how much of it they actually sell... I guess it depends on your budget! my budget is .... what ever I can save up for... LOL sometimes thats a $4.00 skein some times its $10.00... but never $60.00 I can feed my family for days on that kind of money 

I do know that when I upgraded from only using SuperSaver(still use it..just not exclusively) and started buying other yarns and other fibers I was thrilled.. but I'm a penny pincher so I still keep the cost down and look for great sales  its not hard... some company's practically give the yarn away.


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## birdgirl

I started spinning my own yarn to save money. I dont buy yarn any more. Spinning is expensive also, but makes me happier than paying hi prices for yarn. Make your own if ya can, more fun!


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## vikicooks

I use Red Heart yarn- it is a nice yarn for the purpose I'm using it for; afghans for the ladies at the local nursing home. They will love them because I made them - they won't care that I used an inexpensive yarn. My LYS gives us a free skein after buying 12, which is not hard to do!. I also buy Brava from knitpicks. I just can't afford anything more expensive than that; I knit and crochet for the love of It and buy what I can afford so I can keep doing it.


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## LadyRN49

I don't even look at yarn at craftsy. To expensive and no color choice. But I love the classes.


----------



## comebackknitter

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Yup - the nicer stuff is "knock your socks off expensive".
> I check my Tuesday Morning store regularly and snuggle up to my favorite clerk and purrrrrr :
> "Do ya'll happen to know when the next big yarn sale will be?"
> She often gives me a tip, and I make sure I'm there when the store opens up. Sometimes they get really REALLY nice yarn. I recently found some truly wonderful merino/angora/silk by KFI for half price. By calling the 800 number for TM I found several more skeins & have enough to knit my DH a sweater for Christmas.
> If you have a Tuesday Morning in San Antonio, check out their yarn. Sometimes you get a real deal.


I have gotten several balls of yarn at Tuesday Morning. One for socks, which I made, and other decorative yarn, but dont know what to make with it. Never can find enough for a project other than socks.


----------



## retirednelda

My favorite place to shop is online... Little Knits.. I purchase almost all my yarn from there, the prices are the best I have found anywhere but you better buy when you can because a lot of the cheapest priced yarn is discontinued. I have loved everything I have bought from there and they have great service!


----------



## Bucketknitter

dgoll said:


> Also, check the yardage. Some yarns look cheap but have little yardage. Others look expensive but have tons of yardage, which is great for projects where you don't want to join yarn.


This is so true. I buy fingering weight yarns at $15.00 to $25.00 a skein when I want to make a special shawl for a special person--but the skein has usually between 400 and 500 yards, so I only need one to make the type of shawl that I like to make. I can even add lots of beads for another $10.00. That way I can wind up with a beaded wool, cashmere, silk blend shawl for $25.00 to $35.00. I wouldn't be able to buy a ready-made one for anything close to that price, plus I have had the fun of making it.


----------



## tamarque

AmyKnits said:


> One of the reasons that costs of production goes up is because wages go up! I know the minimum wage is going up here again, so it is all relative.... Part of living in a free economy.
> 
> We could complain, OR take advantage of the many resources available to find great yarn at bargain prices!


Must strongly disagree with you Amy. When corporate execs make 500% more than their cheapest labor, your are dealing with pure greed. That inequity has caused more problems in this country than you can begin to imagine. These corporate heads are proving themselves to be more and more sociopathic toward the very people responsible for making those lucrative profits. Just read an article by an ex-corporate exec who was suggesting putting a limit on the incomes of the top earners. Did you know that the top 1% in the US own 46% of the wealth? The next 9% own 40% of the wealth. That leaves only 14% to be shared by the 90% of the people. And this disparity is resulting in a level of cold-heartedness that thinks it ok to reduce SNAP benefits by a months worth of meals for a family.


----------



## Dsynr

No, dear. You COULD NOT buy the sweater you hand knit off the rack. The quality and care of the cardigan that you have knit is far and away better than the one you could buy for half the price of the yarn. Trust me on this. I'm 73 and have knitted for over 65 years in starts and stops!
That said, yarn prices have risen so much that it has become a very expensive hobby, even without the "luxury" yarns when even good ol' Red Heart is $5 and up for 3-1/2 ounces.


blessedinMO said:


> No joke! It is no longer an inexpensive hobby. I have to think twice if I can afford to knit a cuddly cardigan which I could buy off the rack at 1/2 the money.


----------



## bcdado

Agree with you 100% re income inequality in the US. I always look for AmyKnits replies to all knitting questions - she has a wealth of knowledge re everything knitting.


----------



## Coopwire

The most expensive yarn I have ever purchased was $36 for a hank. I used it to make a hat for charity. I feel like it was a gift for me as well as the recipient because it was so lovely to work with. It's hard to find that perfect balance of quality vs. price. I want quality, even though I am donating all of my work, but it has to be affordable, too. Fortunately for me, I knit mostly baby and child things for charity and then a big bunch of hats each fall to donate in November, so I don't need as much yarn as I would if I were knitting adult-sized sweaters and shawls and things.


----------



## Patp

I'm old, short on focus with poor vision but hate to stop knitting-----so every time I see a "One Skein" pattern I get all excited-----usually large needles, bulky yarn. Then I find it's about 30 yards for #35.00 Very disappointing. While I'm at it can anyone suggest a brand that has bulky or super bulky, with good yardage? Something besides Lion Brand ?


----------



## Jokim

Coupons are the only way to go for me. Unless I happen to wander into a huge sale, I never pay more than 60% of the asking price. Even at 50% off, the store is making a profit.
Keep on clipping!


----------



## Dsynr

AmyKnits said:


> I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page).
> 
> Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.
> 
> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.
> 
> Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can.
> 
> If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


"I do not agree with what you say; but I will defend to the death your right to say it." So you do not like to use the cheaper yarns. That is your opinion, and your opinion and $2.50 in exact change will get you a ride and a transfer on a New York city bus, any day of the week.
Personally, I have used the yarns you seem to disdain for many years. I have found Good Ole Red Heart to be a workhorse yarn that satisfies my family's needs and I feel that it will satisfy another family's needs as well.
Homeless persons WILL NOT HAVE READY ACCESS to laundering facilities and the beating that Red Heart yarns will take in those instances make it a good choice for certain donatable projects. That is my opinion, and the addition of "$2.50 in exact change", etc. for me as well.


----------



## thumper5316

tamarque said:


> Must strongly disagree with you Amy. When corporate execs make 500% more than their cheapest labor, your are dealing with pure greed. That inequity has caused more problems in this country than you can begin to imagine. These corporate heads are proving themselves to be more and more sociopathic toward the very people responsible for making those lucrative profits. Just read an article by an ex-corporate exec who was suggesting putting a limit on the incomes of the top earners. Did you know that the top 1% in the US own 46% of the wealth? The next 9% own 40% of the wealth. That leaves only 14% to be shared by the 90% of the people. And this disparity is resulting in a level of cold-heartedness that thinks it ok to reduce SNAP benefits by a months worth of meals for a family.


Keep your political rhetoric for the appropriate threads. This is not one of them.


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## Ciyona

On a lighter note here I have a friend who is rasing alpaca's he has promised to send me some skeins as he has never seen the finished product of the animals wool. He is the son of a lady that watched out of my family while my mom worked. She just turned 80 herself and while at her birthday party I was knitting a scarf and was asked if I had ever worked with alpaca and I told him no that it was too expensive for me. He then told me that he raised them and his story of never seeing the finished product being a garment of some kind I then told him to send me ten skeins and I would make something for his shop. I really need to get with him again and find out if he still wants me to make something for him. BTW he is out in Texas.


----------



## purdyme

I have been ordering from regular Chinese yarn outlets on ebay. If you buy in 10+ skeins the discount is tremendous. $2.87 a 145 yd. skein. The yarn is quality, as I have tested it. I use it for both hand and machine knitting. It can withstand a med. gauge knitting machine much better than any US acrylic yarns. Most of it is cashmere/ milk cotton nylon blends which is very expensive here in the US. They manufacture for all labels, but you can get their standard fare, standard colors for cheap. 
Cottons are of very high quality. Natural blended fibers are their calling card. I doubted at first, but am now a believer.


----------



## cheri49

What I call the fun yarns! better hand dyed, from LYS always have been out for me. I like to make baby hats and purses . If you make a large bag it takes 4 - 6 skeins of yarn.. I could perhaps make one a year.. It gets very depressing. That,s one of the reason this site and ravelry are so important to me is that I get to see the "good" stuff... I'm not knocking quality for patrons it's all I use. When on sale, but otherwise I drool over the yarn in the screen


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## cheri49

What I call the fun yarns! better hand dyed, from LYS always have been out for me. I like to make baby hats and purses . If you make a large bag it takes 4 - 6 skeins of yarn.. I could perhaps make one a year.. It gets very depressing. That,s one of the reason this site and ravelry are so important to me is that I get to see the "good" stuff... I'm not knocking quality for patrons it's all I use. When on sale, but otherwise I drool over the yarn in the screen


----------



## rocketmom

I was just lamenting this to DH. I want to make a coat for myself and it takes 2200 yards. Ouch. I am tall and big boned so I must always get more yarn to make the larger sizes and adjust length and sleeves, LOL! It is a Debbie Bliss pattern for a garter stitch coat that I just love. Now I am trying to decide on the yarn to use. We summer up in Michigan as we go south to Texas for the winter and I would most likely just use it to walk the puppies in the morning chill. Not a lot of use in the winter months in Texas. I don't have a "stash" yarn with 2200 yards!


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## Sperson

I have to admit that I am a yarn snob and really go for the unusual yarns and hand spun and/or dyed yarns. I try to remember that it is the process, not the product that is important. Most of my items turn out well and I love the feel of using top quality yarns. Knitting is my main hobby and compared to my husband's hobbies of golf and hunting, I do have a nice product to show for the expense and time. I also do some charity knitting for our church and go to lesser expensive yarns for those items.


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## rotarian1

This is why my stash is getting out of hand ! When I see a yarn on sale that I love and I think I will use, I grab it and add it to the stash. Recently Hobby Lobby had a fantastic clearance on sock yarn and I have enough now to knit for a few years. However, I know that won't stop me from buying again the next time I see a great sale price.....


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## sanchezs

You must have seen the Tillie Tomas or the Art Yarns they are just crazy expensive.
Wait until Craftsy has some of their super sales. I have gotten some top quality yarn for as little as $1.92 a ball. In fact I ordered this great Cascade Tweed on a Saturday and on Monday it went even lower and they gave me a credit back to my charge card. I ended up with ten skeins of this beautiful yarn costing less than $25.00


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## IrishPaula

I discovered Deramores out of the UK. I found Rowan yarn for $4.00 less than my local shop was asking. Free shipping over $50.00 and most times if you buy nine skeins you get a 10th one free. Also, got my order in less than 10 days which surprised me! Check them out!


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## Condia

That is why knitters contact me and have me spin the yarn for them. Most times much cheaper than buying the yarn from a store not to mention you get a great quality yarn from hand spin.


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## pammash

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one-give me Red Heart any time!! Yes, I've noticed their skeins have gotten smaller over the years-their Super Savers are now only7 and 14 oz. but again, it's very easy care-throw it in the washer/dryer. Stuff lasts forever. RED HEART!!


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## CandyMT1

I live just down the road from Webs. Yes, they have some fabulous yarns and they do have a back room where they sell close-outs. I was there two weeks ago and bought some Universal Yarn C;assic Worsted Tapestry for my granddaughter's sweater this Christmas (Grandson's is already done). They yarn was half price. When i saw the price I ended up buying their sweater yarn for next year as well. 

I do go to Webs, but like another poster, I buy a lot of yarn from KnitPicks. They have extremely good quality yarn at very reasonable prices. In fact, I have never been disappointed with anything I purchased from KP. Their yans are all fabulous to work with and their needles are terrific. 

Caron Simply Soft yarn is very nice - a bit "splitty" but quite nice to work with and has a lovely sheen. I can usually find it at Michaels or WalMart. 

Michael's has a brand of their own - Loops and Threads - and that yarn is also very good. Soft, warm, nice to work with and reasonably priced. 

The more expensive yarns also in many cases require a lot of care. I knot for grandkids, great grandkids, and for charity. What mom has the time to hand wash a child's sweater and lay flat to dry? I would rather use an acrylic or acrylic blend that is easy care and have it be worn! I don't want the kids and their moms to fret about getting something dirty and how it has to be washed! 

As an aside on Webs, the people there are very helpful and they have wonderful classes, but when i mention that I prefer to work with acrylic yarns they tend to turn into "yarn snobs" and point out that real quality yans make a much better finished product. I counter with "maybe, but i want my knitted gifts to be WORN and LOVED - not sit in a drawer!


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## vjh1530

Lizruork said:


> i buy from colourmart often... i got 3000 yards of italian fingering weight cashmere for 2 commission projects last year for 160.00 .shipped to my door.... susan and richard are lovely and wil send samples of yarns if you are looking for something very particular....
> 
> you have to read the website carefully... their yarns come from european mills who spin yarn for the garment industry.... some for knitting some more suited for weaving.... all arrive with mill oil still on them.... so when you open the package looking for luscious yarn you get something that looks like string lol.... dont despair... swatch and soak in hot hot water and suitable detergent (i use shampoo often or even dishwashing liquid ) and out comes the revealed and beautiful yarn you dreamed of...
> 
> the other challenge is that you can ask them to take finer weight yarns and twist them together for heavier weights... so if you are looking for a fingering weight yarn they will twist up 2 laceweight 2 ply yarns for you... they made up an aran weight yarn for me from 2 strands of fingering and 2 strands of laceweight.....
> 
> here is their explanation pf what they can do
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options
> 
> and last challenge... they are currently moving form one website colourmart to another colourmart2 and i am not sure how long it will take to complete the operation lol....
> i usually look at both sites to try and find what i need...
> 
> you can get onto the email notifications... when new yarns, especially exciting colours, arrive the stocks get whisked into shopping baskets v quickly....
> 
> well that i smy testimonial...
> 
> aas to the craftsy yarns... the really expensive one seems to be this miss babs.... and they dont seem on first sight that much different form a lot of hand dyed yarns available at much better prices..... is there supposed to be something v special about them????


Great information, thanks! I had seen their site, but haven't purchased from them yet. It's good to know more about them.


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## mlsolcz

But the ones you buy off the rack are usually not wool and made in China. I'd rather have one or two of my handmade sweaters that will last for years.


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## CandyMT1

purdyme said:


> I have been ordering from regular Chinese yarn outlets on ebay. If you buy in 10+ skeins the discount is tremendous. $2.87 a 145 yd. skein. The yarn is quality, as I have tested it. I use it for both hand and machine knitting. It can withstand a med. gauge knitting machine much better than any US acrylic yarns. Most of it is cashmere/ milk cotton nylon blends which is very expensive here in the US. They manufacture for all labels, but you can get their standard fare, standard colors for cheap.
> Cottons are of very high quality. Natural blended fibers are their calling card. I doubted at first, but am now a believer.


Can you share a link? I haven't shopped on ebay for yarns except for Berrocco Comfort, since I know it is excellent and soft... Knit Picks "Comfy" is a great comparison but they don't have the colorways and I do love working with patterned yarns!

I also do love working with Plymouth Encore (but I only buy it when it's on sale)...


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## rohohappy

With some yarns you get what you pay for. You can find a GOOD wool blend that is cheap as apposed to Red Heart which is all acrylic(plastic). Try knitting with a wool blend and you will never go back. Totally different feeling in your hands and it doesn't squeak when you knit with it and you come out with a much nicer piece. Happy Knitting


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## pattyp413

go to ice yarns website I bought some beautiful yarn 8 large skeins for $20 + shipping was $10


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## Pandora

Knitcrazydeborah. Thanks ever so much for the tip on Tuesday Morning. We actually have one in nearby San Rafael. I hadn't been over there in years, and THIS tip ensures that little doggie and I will take the 10 minute drive. AT the time I used them wasn't looking at yarn Or for it!


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## vjh1530

purdyme said:


> I have been ordering from regular Chinese yarn outlets on ebay. If you buy in 10+ skeins the discount is tremendous. $2.87 a 145 yd. skein. The yarn is quality, as I have tested it. I use it for both hand and machine knitting. It can withstand a med. gauge knitting machine much better than any US acrylic yarns. Most of it is cashmere/ milk cotton nylon blends which is very expensive here in the US. They manufacture for all labels, but you can get their standard fare, standard colors for cheap.
> Cottons are of very high quality. Natural blended fibers are their calling card. I doubted at first, but am now a believer.


I have gotten very nice yarns from China on Ebay, too. Suntek sells lovely 100% cashmere for around $5 -6 for 400yds. It is lace weight, so I just use as many strands as I need to make the weight I want. 100% Cashmere is machine washable and dryable since it doesn't felt. I made some wonderful lace scarves and some luxury baby booties using two strands. When they were finished I just put them in a lingerie bag and tossed them in the washer and dryer. Yum! The yarn bloomed into a beautiful soft fabric! There are other companies that sell beautiful baby yarns as well, and if you watch you can get them very reasonably priced. They are amazingly soft. If anyone is interested PM me and I'll send you the names.


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## Rachael88

Way to rich for my blood...lol!


----------



## AmyKnits

retirednelda said:


> My favorite place to shop is online... Little Knits.. I purchase almost all my yarn from there, the prices are the best I have found anywhere but you better buy when you can because a lot of the cheapest priced yarn is discontinued. I have loved everything I have bought from there and they have great service!


That's why I love/hate KP! Thanks for the tip about Little Knits.... First time I have heard of them and I can now add Little Knits to my "favorites"! Wonderful products and great prices. I thank you but my wallet does not! Lol

Kidding aside... Thanks for the tip!


----------



## scotjud

Try ICE yarns. Very inexpensive, and the ones I've ordered have been very nice. They do have acrylic mixed with most of their natural fibers. The shipping is the most expensive part.
Also, KnitPicks is reasonable. Craftsy does have a close-out section.


----------



## patm

AmyKnits said:


> I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page).
> 
> Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.
> 
> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.
> 
> Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can.
> 
> If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


Ten homeless people lined up on the sidewalk needing a meal. Do I feed one of them a steak dinner with veggies and potatoes or take all of them to the burger joint? Just saying, sometimes it really is about the numbers.
I am just lucky to live near the Spinrite outlet and can find deals on yarn, for which I am thankful.


----------



## Howdi95

Mary Su 2 said:


> As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time.
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


I use Colourmart yarns. They are lovely quality but you have to take what is there as they buy from mills (end of stock, etc). I've just knitted myself a Holden Shawlette in 50% cashmere/ 50% merino wool and it's like gossamer, beautifully soft. I'll post a photo.


----------



## mopgenorth

AmyKnits said:


> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.....


I see that arrogance is alive and well on KP (and running rampant)


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## javalinarose

I was just vacationing in Alaska and bought ONE OUNCE of muskox wool....$99!!!!!!! It did make an awesome scarf. Those little muskox babies were sure adorable.


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## mswine

I just don't buy yarn at full price anymore. It can be crazy expensive.


----------



## Bea 465

I would love to shop at Web's warehouse sales. Too bad I'm 3,000 miles away!


----------



## Bea 465

AmyKnits said:


> ....I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.......


Amy, a lot of those "good yarns" require special care like washing by hand, laying flat to dry, etc. The person who receives a lovely sweater, cap, scarf in "good yarn" wants to be able to throw it in the washing machine and dryer to clean it. If they do that, its usually ruined. They don't have time or perhaps even room to take care of such garments. By using the cheaper yarns, they are provided with warm clothing that is easy to keep clean.


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## CandyMT1

Bea 465 said:


> I would love to shop at Web's warehouse sales. Too bad I'm 3,000 miles away!


Sign up for their email newsletter. They accept phone and online orders and their shipping is reasonable.


----------



## AmyKnits

patm said:


> Ten homeless people lined up on the sidewalk needing a meal. Do I feed one of them a steak dinner with veggies and potatoes or take all of them to the burger joint? Just saying, sometimes it really is about the numbers.
> I am just lucky to live near the Spinrite outlet and can find deals on yarn, for which I am thankful.


I make sure they get something healthy and nourishing to eat... That doesn't equal a steak dinner.... Steak isn't necessary the most nutritious meal, but a healthy meal would be better than a burger and it often costs less than a burger!

If you can only afford to give a burger, than you should.... I just don't see how it makes you feel good to GIVE a burger to someone in need and treat yourself to a steak on your way home.

Like I said... I know I look at charity very different than most.


----------



## patm

AmyKnits said:


> I make sure they get something healthy and nourishing to eat... That doesn't equal a steak dinner.... Steak isn't necessary the most nutritious meal, but a healthy meal would be better than a burger and it often costs less than a burger!
> 
> If you can only afford to give a burger, than you should.... I just don't see how it makes you feel good to GIVE a burger to someone in need and treat yourself to a steak on your way home.
> 
> Like I said... I know I look at charity very different than most.


I see, you think charity is about making one feel good about themselves. I thought it was about helping those less fortunate.


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## Bea 465

CandyMT1 said:


> Sign up for their email newsletter. They accept phone and online orders and their shipping is reasonable.


Well, I get their emails with the new merchandise and current sales, but I wouldn't call that a newsletter. Is there a newsletter or is that their "Join our email list", which I already have. I love newsletters too.


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## CandyMT1

Sorry - i misspoke. Yes their email list. If you go to their website they actually have a garage sale section that i always enjoy going through. If you have a question about their yarns, just pick up the phone and they are very helpful!


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## Montana Gramma

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


Barter??


----------



## Bucketknitter

IrishPaula said:


> I discovered Deramores out of the UK. I found Rowan yarn for $4.00 less than my local shop was asking. Free shipping over $50.00 and most times if you buy nine skeins you get a 10th one free. Also, got my order in less than 10 days which surprised me! Check them out!


I order several times a year from them and have had great service. In addition to the savings you mention, there is no sales tax added in either. They have a nice selection of yarns--not quite as good as you can get
on WEBS online, but certainly very,very good.

Karen


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## mopgenorth

patm said:


> I see, you think charity is about making one feel good about themselves. I thought it was about helping those less fortunate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: you can't argue with narcissism!


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## janwalla

The best site for cheaper good quality yarns is at ice yarns, the shipping is expensive but when you work it all out to include shipping price the yarn is still a bargain! Sign up cos they have a sale on a Tuesday and they will send you the details http://www.iceyarns.com/promotion


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## tamarque

Montana Gramma said:


> Barter??


Barter works.


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## dialfred

I only buy yarn on sale, unless I'm on vacation & count it as a souvenir. Also, prices online tend to be lower.
I do feel sorry for my LYS, but I live in a tourist area & prices here reflect that.


----------



## thumper5316

tamarque said:


> Barter works.


Absolutely. I've bartered for some of the most amazing things. The one that sticks in my mind was the prenatal and delivery fee for our middle son and also a good chunk of our pediatrician bill.


----------



## Dreamweaver

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> Yup - the nicer stuff is "knock your socks off expensive".
> I check my Tuesday Morning store regularly and snuggle up to my favorite clerk and purrrrrr :
> "Do ya'll happen to know when the next big yarn sale will be?"
> She often gives me a tip, and I make sure I'm there when the store opens up. Sometimes they get really REALLY nice yarn. I recently found some truly wonderful merino/angora/silk by KFI for half price. By calling the 800 number for TM I found several more skeins & have enough to knit my DH a sweater for Christmas.
> If you have a Tuesday Morning in San Antonio, check out their yarn. Sometimes you get a real deal.


i have three Tim's in the area and check them all if trying to get a quantity of something. There are some good buys, but often not enough for a big project. I always look though..


----------



## DollieD

I am so happy to see that others feel as I do.
I have, IMHO, a very large stash, and that is what I am going to knit from for some time.
For whatever reason, my homeowner's insurance and auto insurance doubled in price this year. Yikes! And big surprise!
Of course, I have talked to them! ( not too politely!)
I am shopping around for other companies.
I have been with this company for 44 years, and made TWO claims in all that time.
I have a greater understanding today of why my Daddy would never buy any kind of insurance. He and my family were self insured!


----------



## Dreamweaver

Sagarika said:


> In Indid (where I live, I have to multiply it by 60 . So you can imagine my plight. I find KNIT PICKS yarn VERY GOOD. I used their ALOFT (3threads) and also their sport wt BABY ALPACA . Produced excellent garments.


Yes, I find the, to have good quality at fairly reasonable prices. I do check out my LYS but only buy on sale. long gone are the days of "homemade for economy".


----------



## AmyKnits

patm said:


> Ten homeless people lined up on the sidewalk needing a meal. Do I feed one of them a steak dinner with veggies and potatoes or take all of them to the burger joint? Just saying, sometimes it really is about the numbers.
> I am just lucky to live near the Spinrite outlet and can find deals on yarn, for which I am thankful.


You should do whatever you feel comfortable with!


----------



## tamarque

thumper5316 said:


> Absolutely. I've bartered for some of the most amazing things. The one that sticks in my mind was the prenatal and delivery fee for our middle son and also a good chunk of our pediatrician bill.


You done good there!


----------



## standsalonewolf

go to colour mart


----------



## AmyKnits

Dreamweaver said:


> Yes, I find the, to have good quality at fairly reasonable prices. I do check out my LYS but only buy on sale. long gone are the days of "homemade for economy".


Wonderful to see you!!!!! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## normancha

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?[/quot
> 
> How about feeding them and cleaning them? Vets expenses? that's why yarns are expensive. But I know my limits. No more knitting sweaters with $200 - $400 worth of yarn.


----------



## AmyKnits

patm said:


> I see, you think charity is about making one feel good about themselves. I thought it was about helping those less fortunate.


Just as with anything else in life, we all choose how much we are willing to give, how we give and to whom we give to. YES... I personally feel that women going through chemo deserve the VERY best yarns/materials that I can possibly find/afford to help them feel comfortable and pretty as they face the fight of their lives.

You are correct... I would NOT feel good IF I kept the good yarn for myself and used cheap yarns for others.... For charity, for gifts, for friends and family.... I am allowed to make my own choices based on my own philosophies, right?!

I prefer to knit a hat for a homeless person using superwash wool because it is JUST as easy care as acrylic and will be many times warmer than acrylic. I wouldn't give an item as a gift or to charity that I wouldn't wear myself.

This is how I view my knitting and I don't believe charity is about feeling good about myself.... It is about feeling good about what I am giving.

I am here to share my ideas, thoughts and experiences with other knitters.... Perhaps you disagree, perhaps you will make different choices..... That is why we are here, right?!


----------



## knitnut86

Mary Su 2 said:


> As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time.
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


wow, those are pretty good prices if they include postage. Thanks for the link, I have bookmarked it!!


----------



## Norma B.

kiwiannie said:


> Regardless of how well you do or don't knit, I don't think any yarn is worth that amount of money.


It's worth it if you can afford it!! I can't. In order to make the larger items I do----pullovers, cardigans, an occasional (just one right now) afghan, I have to buy the Turkish yarn from yarn-paradise.com. Their pricing and enormous variety make it possible for me to keep knitting with good yarn. A sweater that would cost from $60 to $100 plus can be done for under $15. Maybe $25 if you look at their more expensive Italian yarns. Shipping brings the price up but it's still FAR less than any I can buy U.S. and it arrives between two and four days after ordering. I don't even know how they do that!! I know there are those who will say I'm terrible for buying foreign and I would NOT if I had unlimited funds. And yes, if I were that wealthy, I would definitely buy the beautiful expensive yarns no matter what they cost. :-D


----------



## kneonknitter

pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


I spent $20 a skein on yarn a number of years ago, but, it was for me. 2 years ago I spent $200 on yarn for my niece/god daughter & never got a 'drop dead' from her never mind 'thank you'. Never again. My children & grands love what I knit for them & will spend good money on good yarn for them. I just don't think anything above $20 is worth it.


----------



## retirednelda

AmyKnits said:


> That's why I love/hate KP! Thanks for the tip about Little Knits.... First time I have heard of them and I can now add Little Knits to my "favorites"! Wonderful products and great prices. I thank you but my wallet does not! Lol
> 
> Kidding aside... Thanks for the tip!


I am so glad you found it handy, I have a mountain of good quality stash to choose from for projects but the sales just keep luring me back.. love shopping there


----------



## retirednelda

Bucketknitter said:


> I order several times a year from them and have had great service. In addition to the savings you mention, there is no sales tax added in either. They have a nice selection of yarns--not quite as good as you can get
> on WEBS online, but certainly very,very good.
> 
> Karen


Thanks for the site but are all of their yarns messy with oil? I think I need to figure out more about yarn so I know what I am ordering before I order from them so I know what I want. do you just wash the whole hank as it comes in the sink? the prices look good but again, I don`t understand the 2/25 yarn numbers yet.


----------



## 1pennies

Woww ee wow wow wow. There were sever things there I could only dream about. I wonder what the shipping cots is. Thanks for the site info. Penny


----------



## 1pennies

SWTC?? what and where? pen


----------



## medusa

tamarque said:


> Must strongly disagree with you Amy. When corporate execs make 500% more than their cheapest labor, your are dealing with pure greed. That inequity has caused more problems in this country than you can begin to imagine. These corporate heads are proving themselves to be more and more sociopathic toward the very people responsible for making those lucrative profits. Just read an article by an ex-corporate exec who was suggesting putting a limit on the incomes of the top earners. Did you know that the top 1% in the US own 46% of the wealth? The next 9% own 40% of the wealth. That leaves only 14% to be shared by the 90% of the people. And this disparity is resulting in a level of cold-heartedness that thinks it ok to reduce SNAP benefits by a months worth of meals for a family.


Excellent post!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## medusa

A great ebay site that sells yarns from China is "suppliescraft". I have purchased everything from 100% bamboo, wool, milk fiber cotton, and some nice mohair. They are not only sellers but are also manufacturers of their yarns and their bamboo knitting needles. They are prompt and have terrific communication with you. I highly recommend them.


----------



## patm

AmyKnits said:


> Just as with anything else in life, we all choose how much we are willing to give, how we give and to whom we give to. YES... I personally feel that women going through chemo deserve the VERY best yarns/materials that I can possibly find/afford to help them feel comfortable and pretty as they face the fight of their lives.
> 
> You are correct... I would NOT feel good IF I kept the good yarn for myself and used cheap yarns for others.... For charity, for gifts, for friends and family.... I am allowed to make my own choices based on my own philosophies, right?!
> 
> I prefer to knit a hat for a homeless person using superwash wool because it is JUST as easy care as acrylic and will be many times warmer than acrylic. I wouldn't give an item as a gift or to charity that I wouldn't wear myself.
> 
> This is how I view my knitting and I don't believe charity is about feeling good about myself.... It is about feeling good about what I am giving.
> 
> I am here to share my ideas, thoughts and experiences with other knitters.... Perhaps you disagree, perhaps you will make different choices..... That is why we are here, right?!


Yes, I guess I do have a different view. I believe the moment a gift is given to charity, it becomes a blessing. Regardless of the motives of the person giving it. There are so many people in need that quantity vs quality is a viable concern, especially for those on a budget. 
I seldom address these posts but every gift given is real charity for the recipient.
I hope you can agree to disagree.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

cbjlinda said:


> Those prices will remain only as long as there are people silly enough to pay them.


There was always cheap yarn and expensive yarn.

It's hardly "silly" to chose based on quality and not _just_ cost when you're able to do so.

I had some knitters on both sides of the family.

The knitters that bothered to use quality stuff, their items were sought after by the family and passed down from generation to generation.

Then there was the aunt that always used the cheap stuff, and pumped out items like a factory.

It was always a joke in the family about who was gonna get "stuck" with that aunt's crappy items. It's hard to know how to react because on one hand, you know that someone put some effort knitting the items in the first place and you don't want to insult that. But then on the other hand, that crap ends up piling up in the back of your closet because no one REALLY wants to wear it.

People who use the crappy stuff think people don't notice, but they do.


----------



## illusionsbydonna

I buy a lot of my yarn at thrift stores. I have a lot I bought at a thrift store that was from an estate sale and have the stickers on them from a pricey LYS.. Some of them are teeny tiny little balls of eyelash yarn with $10 price tags that I would never have paid.. I got them for a buck a piece.. And then she threw in a couple for free too.. Love thrift stores!!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

AmyKnits said:


> I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page).
> 
> Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.
> 
> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.
> 
> Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can.
> 
> If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


I agree with everything you said.

I also don't understand the comments saying that knitting now is more expensive.

The main difference between now and the "good old days" I see is that there's MUCH MORE variety to choose from.

If ANYTHING, I think it's much easier to find higher quality yarns at reasonable prices.

It USED to be that you'd just save up for the higher quality yarns for a "special" project and would rarely find them on sale.

NOW, there's so much competition, you can find some GREAT bargains.


----------



## sanchezs

SWTC is Southwest Trading Company.
They make wonderful yarn.
Here is their link

http://www.soysilk.com/index.html


----------



## BluesChanteuse

patm said:


> Yes, I guess I do have a different view. I believe the moment a gift is given to charity, it becomes a blessing. Regardless of the motives of the person giving it. There are so many people in need that quantity vs quality is a viable concern, especially for those on a budget.
> I seldom address these posts but every gift given is real charity for the recipient.
> I hope you can agree to disagree.


No, I don't agree that there's a "quantity" vs "quality" issue.

The truth is, there's a LOT of crap donated (i.e. Chinese machine made crap) that sometimes even gets thrown away. Saying "every gift give is real charity for the recipient" is another way of saying "beggars can't be choosers" IMO. The truth is, whether it's knitting items or even food charities, sometimes the items donated are so crappy, that the charity organizations spend money trying to figure out a way to dispose of things that even the poorest of people can't use/eat.

Anyone of us could probably find some cheap mittens/hats/scarves etc at the dollar store, buy up a bunch and drop them off at a charity.

What makes HANDKNITTED items valuable, is that, they ARE of higher quality (or should be).

What's really needed is a higher quantity of QUALITY items that ACTUALLY keep people warm and don't put people at risk for much more severe burns if they're caught in a fire.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

courier770 said:


> Producing luxury yarns is no "cheap" endeavor. Let's take Alpaca for instance. You must have the land before you can have the animals, then there is the cost of the animals AND the cost to maintain them (not just food but veterinary care). Shearing is a labor intensive job and usually involves bringing in shearers, then there is the cleaning and processing of the fleece (another job this is most generally contracted out). Next comes the carding, followed by spinning. At this point quite a bit of expense has been involved and not one yard of yarn has been sold.
> 
> The cost of and maintaining commercial machinery to actually spin the yarn is quite high. Labels for the yarn must be purchased. Next comes the cost of shipping the yarn to retail locations. Again at this point no yarn has actually been sold but a lot of people have put labor and $$ into the process....this is how they make their living.
> 
> On other threads I've heard people say they will only pay so many "pennies" per yard. Really? Do you work for pennies?
> 
> Yes yarn can be expensive, depending upon the fiber involved, the dye process, WHERE it is manufactured and by who. All figure into the equation of price.
> 
> To those who think yarn is overpriced, I suggest you invest in a spinning wheel yourself (they are expensive) and try your hand at spinning your own yarn. It's not easy and more importantly it's not cheap.


Well explained. I agree.


----------



## mopgenorth

BluesChanteuse said:


> No, I don't agree that there's a "quantity" vs "quality" issue.
> 
> The truth is, there's a LOT of crap donated (i.e. Chinese machine made crap) that sometimes even gets thrown away. Saying "every gift give is real charity for the recipient" is another way of saying "beggars can't be choosers" IMO. The truth is, whether it's knitting items or even food charities, sometimes the items donated are so crappy, that the charity organizations spend money trying to figure out a way to dispose of things that even the poorest of people can't use/eat.
> 
> Anyone of us could probably find some cheap mittens/hats/scarves etc at the dollar store, buy up a bunch and drop them off at a charity.
> 
> What makes HANDKNITTED items valuable, is that, they ARE of higher quality (or should be).
> 
> What's really needed is a higher quantity of QUALITY items that ACTUALLY keep people warm and don't put people at risk for much more severe burns if they're caught in a fire.


wow - you managed to top even Amy in the arrogance department - in fact you left her in your dust!


----------



## seedstitch

gwennieh68 said:


> I agree with what everyone says and yet I've always had a longing to make a sweater for myself out of truly luxurious, expensive yarn. Haven't yet and probably never will, but it still sits there in the back of my mind, then I too think of "what if's." What if it got thrown in the washer and dryer by mistake!!


... or got eaten by moths in the summer time. yks.


----------



## Norma B.

seedstitch said:


> ... or got eaten by moths in the summer time. yks.


Or what if you got to wear it and enjoy it immensely without worrying about all the "what if's" that might never happen? Wouldn't that be nice! :thumbup:


----------



## vikicooks

Buy what you can afford and don't feel bad about not being able to use expensive yarn or needles. Having inexpensive yarns available to us keeps more people knitting and crocheting- epsecially those of us on fixed incomes. I do not feel that I am wasting my time by making things from red Heart yarn.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

mopgenorth said:


> wow - you managed to top even Amy in the arrogance department - in fact you left her in your dust!


Amy is a wise and intelligent woman, thank you for comparing me to her.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Norma B. said:


> Or what if you got to wear it and enjoy it immensely without worrying about all the "what if's" that might never happen? Wouldn't that be nice! :thumbup:


Oh, the ARROGANCE of positive thinking!!


----------



## Bucketknitter

This is in reply to the question about Deramores--I forgot to include the original post and can't add it through editing my post--Sorry! 

Deramores has brand name yarns--no oils--no need to wash before using, just Google their website and you can browse yarns by brand, fiber, weight, etc., just as you can on the WEBS site (yarn.com)

Karen


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> Buy what you can afford and don't feel bad about not being able to use expensive yarn or needles.


I don't think anyone, anywhere here has ever said people should buy what they can't afford.

Just that if you care about quality, you can do so affordably and that perhaps and it's kind of a BS excuse to buy crappy yarn for charity.

You can find affordable quality yarn if you give a damn.

I wish I could find the story online, but I remember reading about a small city in a cold climate (I don't even know if it was in the US, or perhaps Switzerland or something)...

Anyway, the charities in the city required natural fibers for donated cold whether knitted items, and that very year, the amount of emergency room frostbite cases were cut by MORE THAN HALF.

If you're knitting for charity, you should think about the actual NEEDS of the recipients.


----------



## brain56

medusa said:


> A great ebay site that sells yarns from China is "suppliescraft". I have purchased everything from 100% bamboo, wool, milk fiber cotton, and some nice mohair. They are not only sellers but are also manufacturers of their yarns and their bamboo knitting needles. They are prompt and have terrific communication with you. I highly recommend them.


sockit2me, here on KP, "introduced" me to them. 
I'm knitting gifts with some of the yarn I bought.


----------



## Dreamweaver

Love natural fibers and do go out of my way to find affordable yarns. There are many available from Hobby Lobby to KnitPicks, Deramores, and on and on. The bottom line is that you must match your yarn to your budget, the recipient and the purpose of the object and the ease of care you think necessary. there are some yarns that are just too rough and I don't enjoy the process.. There are others that are just out of my price range... But there sure are a lot in the middle and nothing like finding a bargain on the yarn of my choice.... Try to always include a label, regardless of type of yarn, so that the recipient knows how to care for the item. Just keep those needles clicking, whatever your personal choice...


----------



## RosieC

AuntVay said:


> I agree!! I just ordered supplies for a sweater for Christmas requested by my daughter for her fiance. He's a big man. Lots of yards. Lots of skeins. Found Wool Ease for under $4 per skein, so I'm feeling lucky. I don't want to put a lot of work into a sweater or afghan and use unsatisfactory materials. Gone are the days when you knit (or sewed) your own clothing in order to save money. It is truly a hobby now.


I was just telling my new DIL that I used to sew my entire wardrobe ! she couldn't get over it.....especially when I told her I never bought maternity clothes either - made them myself and shared them with others


----------



## medusa

brain56 said:


> sockit2me, here on KP, "introduced" me to them.
> I'm knitting gifts with some of the yarn I bought.


I am glad that you like their products, too. I couldn't believe their wonderful customer service!!! I tell everyone I know about them.


----------



## vikicooks

I do give a damn--- about staying within my means! It would be nice to sometimes be able to spend more, but can't right now. I am not going to quit making afghans for the ladies just because I can only afford a certain yarn. Most of them used to knit or crochet with red heart also. They enjoy seeing a familiar yarn. I'm pretty sure you didn't intend to come off sounding the way I took your remarks- we can only do what we can do.


----------



## courier770

I truly respect those who stay within their budgets..don't misunderstand me at all. We have become a society that has outsourced our labor to countries that pay pennies per hour, that use child and forced/slave labor because it saves us dollars...but at what cost? 

In the long run, these choices have cost us more actually. Our manufacturing base has been moving to third world countries for many years now and yes corporate greed is often the motivation. With the loss of jobs came the need for more social programs to aid those whose employment was sent somewhere else. We are now seeing a cut in the food stamp program. I disagree with this cut but no doubt the cut is being made in an effort to clean up our budget problems...again at what cost? Taking food out of the mouths who most need it, while providing massive foreign aid and almost inviting companies to move their manufacturing to countries where labor is "cheap" seems to be robbing from Peter and never paying Paul. This is what we have bought into when we decided to buy "more" and "more" and "more". 

The prices of some yarns have risen but I dare say that corporate greed it not the root cause. Transportation costs have risen and risen and continue to rise. Everything involved in the process of manufacturing yarn, involves transportation costs.

Let's look at this realistically, the price of feed for the animals has risen..as has the cost of producing the feed and transporting it. Sending the raw material to be processed has risen, again due to rising transportation costs......it's a viscous cycle that never seems to end. 

If you compare the rise in the price of Coffee over the past 30 years and you compare the rise in prices of yarn, you'll find that yarn has not risen nearly as much (percentage wise) as coffee and don't even get me started on the price of toilet paper! Though maybe we should, we accept the massive rise in the cost of toilet paper over the past 30 years for an item that is used once and "discarded" while we complain about the rising price of yarn...which gives us hours of entertainment, results in products that are used and enjoyed by many...yarn is still a better deal than toilet paper! *tongue in cheek*


----------



## Apbarr

I didn't know about Colourmart.com but now I do! lol I will have to order from them the next time I can. I just placed an order with Knittingwarehouse.com


----------



## Knitcrazydeborah

Mary Su 2 said:


> As I was reading and agreeing with all your comments, an ad popped up for close-out yarns. I looked at a few. One that caught my eye was a cashmere lace weight yarn, and yes it was $38.00 BUT that was for a 150g cone with 2,300 yards of yarn, and shipping is included in the price!! There are limited colours and quantities, but it would be worth bookmarking and checking out from time to time.
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/


Careful with that coned yarn. I've bought it from Colourmart (great company, good customer service, knowledgable staff) before. 2,300 yards in 150gm is very, very fine (thin) yarn. It's what lace knitters refer to as "cobweb" or "wedding ring" lace yarn. Wedding ring shawls are so fine, you can pull the entire shawl through a ladies wedding ring. I hope that paints the picture regarding the weight.


----------



## vikicooks

I agree with you- we are lucky we can pay for fuel to keep our home warm in the winter and fill our gas tanks. We don't travel anymore, or go out to eat. I buy the yarn I can afford so I can keep doing something I enjoy. To have someone say ' you could find an affordable better quality yarn if you gave a damn' was just a bit harsh. . P.s. I stopped buying expensive toilet paper because it kept clogging the septic system- now I use Aldi's brand because it woks just fine!


----------



## SouthernGirl

It's a lot for yarn.


----------



## courier770

I think the deeper question is "where is our money going?". Is it going to corporations that have moved manufacturing "off shore" to enjoy the benefits of paying workers low/slave wages or is it going to pay to provide a "living wage"..there's a lot of disparity between the two. I'll pay more...a LOT more for an yarn that is produced in 
America than I will ever pay for a yarn produced in China or Turkey. In fact 99% of the time I'll put that Chinese yarn or Turkish yarn, right back on the shelf and opt for a yarn produced in the US or a "fair trade" country. I will NOT knit on the back of child labor or forced/slave labor. It's a bone of contention with me and please don't tell me that it's better for 6 year old children to be working than starving. NO 6 year old should be working to support their family, in this country or any other country.

While I like saving a dollar or two I will NEVER do it on the back of a child. I'll knit less or I'll knit slower but I'll never be a part of labor abuse.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> I agree with you- we are lucky we can pay for fuel to keep our home warm in the winter and fill our gas tanks. We don't travel anymore, or go out to eat. I buy the yarn I can afford so I can keep doing something I enjoy. To have someone say ' you could find an affordable better quality yarn if you gave a damn' was just a bit harsh. . P.s. I stopped buying expensive toilet paper because it kept clogging the septic system- now I use Aldi's brand because it woks just fine!


I agree, it's a little harsh.

But then again, is knitting acrylic items for charity for babies when they know, if those baby's get caught in a fire, the difference between natural fibers and plastic acrylic can make the difference between life and death.

IMO, it's a pretty "harsh" thing to do.


----------



## courier770

NO it's not harsh. I had a family member who was horribly burned in a home accident..while wearing a synthetic shirt. He spent months in a burn unit, underwent painful skin grafts and truly never recovered. He died this past July 4th weekend. You see he had become so accustomed to the pain across his chest (from the horrific burns he suffered) that he did not question it...he had developed lung cancer and died within 2 weeks of being diagnosed. People, especially children, low income children are more at risk for being burned and maimed in a home fire.

Here in the US we just ended "day light savings time"...a day when batteries are generally replaced in smoke detectors...IF you can afford to do so! 

Most families are fortune enough to never spend a moments time in a burn unit..but those of us who have...we can tell you stories. Stories that will make you run for t he nearest toilet bowl. How our family members had to have "gobs" of melted synthetics cut from their bodies. How they had to endure skin graphs and how they were scared for life. 

The day that my brother in law was burned, was the day I changed my choices in fibers. I never again knitted my children acrylic sweaters (or other garments)...I never again knitted or crocheted an afghan from acrylic yarn. I became very aware of fiber choices in not only what went onto the backs of our children but the fibers used in the "decor" of our home. 

These things always seem to happen to "someone else"...well my brother in law was someone else. Yes he was..he was the youngest child of my in laws...the baby brother of my husband, the beloved uncle to his nieces and nephews..he was someone and I'd hate to think the lesson our family learned that day is lost on others. 

Hope you had a peaceful "flight" Matt, I still miss you!


----------



## vikicooks

My goodness! I am glad that I don't knit for charity-I could not handle the responsibility.


----------



## courier770

I'm sorry that you think this is a "responsibility" but as a family member who saw the havoc that was wreaked on the body of a loved one...all I can say is that I hope you never have to witness this...or listen to the screams as a molten synthetic blob is cut from the body of someone you love. It's so easy to be critical isn't it? It's so easy to talk about saving a few cents..when another family is faced with massive medical bills, isn't it?

As I said I gave up acrylics when I saw first hand what happens to them in a fire...something i hope you never have to witness or have a family member go through. 

It all seems to be so much "drama" until it's a family member of YOURS that is harmed, doesn't it?.

You get what you pay for in this life. Cutting corners usually doesn't cause much harm but there are cases when cutting corners...are downright dangerous. 

Just think would we be having this conversation if someone was opting to buy and out of date child safety seat for an infant? I'd venture to say "NO".

I won't put a child of mine in danger, a grandchild and I certainly wouldn't put a child or grandchild of one of my neighbors in danger..it's just not worth my saving a few pennies...perhaps you think differently, if you do..I feel sorry for you.


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## Ritacakes

That truly is a terrible story! I had never thought about acrylics as dangerous, but after reading your post, it makes perfect sense!


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## grandmatimestwo

Too expensive for me! I buy a lot of my yarn at Webs, because of the discount.


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## AmyKnits

Ritacakes said:


> That truly is a terrible story! I had never thought about acrylics as dangerous, but after reading your post, it makes perfect sense!


I agree. The reason I joined KP and continue to participate is to learn. I want to learn all I can about knitting AND fibers to improve my work and my life.

I learned a VERY valuable lesson the day I heard Matt's story. I am greatful that Courier was brave enough to share and cares enough to continue to do so.... For others like myself who did not realize the dangers. I no longer use acrylic yarns and would NEVER consider acrylic for a baby blanket or sweater.

My daughter and I conducted a "burn test" last spring.... I am the type that needs to prove things for myself.... We placed a pile of wool, a pile of superwash wool and a pile of acrylic yarn on a cookie sheet and held a lighter over each pile for ten seconds....

I have shown this photo several times and knitters continue to insist that acrylic is the BEST fiber for knitting baby items, children's blankets and clothes! Not me... No baby or child I love will ever be wrapped in or wear ANY item made with acrylic!


----------



## vjh1530

AmyKnits said:


> I make sure they get something healthy and nourishing to eat... That doesn't equal a steak dinner.... Steak isn't necessary the most nutritious meal, but a healthy meal would be better than a burger and it often costs less than a burger!
> 
> If you can only afford to give a burger, than you should.... I just don't see how it makes you feel good to GIVE a burger to someone in need and treat yourself to a steak on your way home.
> 
> Like I said... I know I look at charity very different than most.


This will probably finish off what little "friendship" you and I had left, but I am tired of comments like, If it was made in decent yarn it would have been breathtaking, or something to that effect. Wow, do you have any idea what a nasty comment that is to the people here who post photos of their work? And you became judge and jury - when? I must have missed that day. There are plenty of us here who probably don't always agree with the yarn choices you have made for some of the projects you have posted, but how would you feel is someone said something like that to you after all your hard work?

Yes, you do look at charity very differently than most, and I say, Thank God most people have a better understanding of what it really means to be in need. And what does "steak isn't the most nutritious meal" have to do about anything? Did you entirely miss what she was saying?

No where did I see her say she was going to have a steak for herself on the way home. You knit for your doctor's patients because you WANT to, not because they NEED it. Ask yourself, do you use great yarns because THEY need it or because they will tell you how wonderful you are to make such a pretty, fancy hat for them. That is NOT charity knitting. That is gift-giving. They are not living on street corners, or homeless shelters, or tiny apartments without hot water and housing 4 families. You have obviously not spent much time with a real homeless person. They don't even wipe themselves after they poop, because toilet paper is a luxury they can't afford. If you don't believe me, get close to one and the smell will convince you. They don't wash anything properly, much less a wool hat made from fancy yarn. The best that happens is the homeless shelter where they stop in for a meal once a month told them they have to shower to get a meal, and while they are in the shower their clothes are tossed into the shelter's washer with hot water, then into a hot dryer. So goodbye fancy hat.

That is the most hard-core example of homeless. There are many levels and I think most people here who really knit for charity have that figured out. The people in need may all have different needs, but none of them need "fancy" as much as they need function. A cheap skein of washable wool yarn makes one baby sweater for maybe $10. A simple acrylic yarn like Pound of Love by Lion Brand is durable and soft for that same amount of money or less. It will make 4 sweaters of the same yardage. So go ahead - tell that one mother that her baby will be getting a really nice sweater, then you can tell the other 3 mothers that are standing there, sorry, your baby doesn't get a sweater because I wanted that one to be the best quality. So now you have one warm baby in a fancy sweater and three cold babies with nothing.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.

Most charity knitters I know are not rich, nor do they have bottomless budgets, so the amount of money they can spend on the yarn they use for their donations is not real big. When that yarn is gone, there are no more knitting donations until they can afford to buy more. They wouldn't be going home with their bellies full of steak, they would be going home hungry, or with just a burger for themselves as well.

Where are all the photos of these chemo hats you make for people who enjoy them but don't have to go around bald if they don't have one; I'd love to see them all. I see the pictures of sweaters, shawls, and socks you make for gifts and for yourself, though. So before you get on your high horse and put down the people who are actually doing the work using the yarn that they can afford, and allows them to make as many items to help as many people as possible for that budget, find out what REAL charity knitting is really about. Those wonderful people like Donnie K don't knit for fancy, they knit for others - from their hearts. And the people who are lucky enough to get something knitted by them know they just got something special.


----------



## gin-red

dwernars said:


> LOL, I was thinking the same thing. I love that store so much


They have a web site. I buy sale yarn there frequently.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> My goodness! I am glad that I don't knit for charity-I could not handle the responsibility.


The "responsibility" of thinking?

It's really not rocket science.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Ritacakes said:


> That truly is a terrible story! I had never thought about acrylics as dangerous, but after reading your post, it makes perfect sense!


People forget that acrylic yarn IS PLASTIC. And it melts as such.


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## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> This will probably finish off what little "friendship" you and I had left, but I am tired of comments like, If it was made in decent yarn it would have been breathtaking, or something to that effect. Wow, do you have any idea what a nasty comment that is to the people here who post photos of their work? And you became judge and jury - when? ...


When did you "judge" that it was ok to put poorer children at risk with plastic yarn, or that poor people don't deserve ACTUAL _warm_ knitted garments?

What you don't seem to get is that it's NASTY to do those things to disenfranchised people.



> You have obviously not spent much time with a real homeless person. They don't even wipe themselves after they poop, because toilet paper is a luxury they can't afford. If you don't believe me, get close to one and the smell will convince you. They don't wash anything properly, much less a wool hat made from fancy yarn.


No one here EVER said it was necessary to use "fancy" yarn. Just yarn that is actually warm and isn't dangerous.

And I have worked in many the homeless shelters, and homeless people run the gamut, and that you describe them all as stinking of poop is a grossly disrespectful, ignorant and incomplete stereotype.

Yes, there are some homeless people, especially those with mental illnesses that can't even do the bare minimum to care for themselves.

But, they are still human beings that deserve a WARM pair of mittens/gloves/scarf/hat etc... that won't melt to their skin.

Superwash wool isn't "fancy" yarn, it's not cheap plastic that won't keep anyone adequately warm.


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## vjh1530

Dreamweaver said:


> Love natural fibers and do go out of my way to find affordable yarns. There are many available from Hobby Lobby to KnitPicks, Deramores, and on and on. The bottom line is that you must match your yarn to your budget, the recipient and the purpose of the object and the ease of care you think necessary. there are some yarns that are just too rough and I don't enjoy the process.. There are others that are just out of my price range... But there sure are a lot in the middle and nothing like finding a bargain on the yarn of my choice.... Try to always include a label, regardless of type of yarn, so that the recipient knows how to care for the item. Just keep those needles clicking, whatever your personal choice...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## AmyKnits

Vicky, I really don't wish to reply to your comments, but since you like to quote me, I would simply like to say that this is an open forum where we share ideas and information. 

We all have the right to our own opinions and choices. I choose to knit with what I do with the fibers I choose to and for whom I choose to and that is my right.

I, however, will refrain from name calling, making conclusions and judging you for your choices. As I said... I am here to learn and share.... Being nasty, name calling and making assumptions on what others think, believe or do is just rude. If it makes you feel better about yourself, then so be it. Just please don't expect me to behave in the same manner.

The chemo hats I made I put in a basket at the Dr. Office for patients to take. We have patients on public assistance as well as wealthy patients.... They are all welcome to take a chemo hat. They are ALL knitted for chemo patients... I HAVE shared photos here on KP of them. If you don't feel that qualifies as "charity", I respect that, however, that is what I choose to do.

If you think others who knit for OTHER charities are "better" or "more giving" than myself, than that is fine with me. I don't know you, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. I choose not to judge you or insult you simply because you and I don't see "charity" knitting the same way!

If you choose to knit blankets and sweaters for babies using acrylic, I will not insult you, however I will point out the dangers of doing so.... Just as several knitters educated me. That is the purpose of being a member of a forum, After all.



Enjoy your evening and your knitting!


----------



## vjh1530

BluesChanteuse said:


> When did you "judge" that it was ok to put poorer children at risk with plastic yarn, or that poor people don't deserve ACTUAL warn knitted garments?
> 
> What you don't seem to get is that it's NASTY to do those things to disenfranchised people.


Sure do love to take words out of context and re-work for your own purpose, don't you? I never said any of those things.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> Where are all the photos of these chemo hats you make for people who enjoy them but don't have to go around bald if they don't have one; I'd love to see them all. I see the pictures of sweaters, shawls, and socks you make for gifts and for yourself, though.


I personally wouldn't show pictures of my charity knitting either. I'm not in the habit of "showing off" that I knit for charity.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> Sure do love to take words out of context and re-work for your own purpose, don't you? I never said any of those things.


Of course you don't SAY it literally. But, that's what happens when one uses cheap yarn for poor people.

They've, by default, made the judgement that they're not "worth" the extra buck or two for superwash wool.

And YOU DID stereotype homeless people with your unwiped poop anecdote.

MY feeling is, if someone is in such a bad situation that they can't even afford toilet paper to wipe themselves, then they're probably are the ones that need QUALITY knitted pieces THE MOST.


----------



## galaxycraft

vjh1530 said:


> This will probably finish off what little "friendship" you and I had left, but I am tired of comments like, If it was made in decent yarn it would have been breathtaking, or something to that effect. Wow, do you have any idea what a nasty comment that is to the people here who post photos of their work? And you became judge and jury - when? I must have missed that day. There are plenty of us here who probably don't always agree with the yarn choices you have made for some of the projects you have posted, but how would you feel is someone said something like that to you after all your hard work?
> 
> Yes, you do look at charity very differently than most, and I say, Thank God most people have a better understanding of what it really means to be in need. And what does "steak isn't the most nutritious meal" have to do about anything? Did you entirely miss what she was saying?
> 
> No where did I see her say she was going to have a steak for herself on the way home. You knit for your doctor's patients because you WANT to, not because they NEED it. Ask yourself, do you use great yarns because THEY need it or because they will tell you how wonderful you are to make such a pretty, fancy hat for them. That is NOT charity knitting. That is gift-giving. They are not living on street corners, or homeless shelters, or tiny apartments without hot water and housing 4 families. You have obviously not spent much time with a real homeless person. They don't even wipe themselves after they poop, because toilet paper is a luxury they can't afford. If you don't believe me, get close to one and the smell will convince you. They don't wash anything properly, much less a wool hat made from fancy yarn. The best that happens is the homeless shelter where they stop in for a meal once a month told them they have to shower to get a meal, and while they are in the shower their clothes are tossed into the shelter's washer with hot water, then into a hot dryer. So goodbye fancy hat.
> 
> That is the most hard-core example of homeless. There are many levels and I think most people here who really knit for charity have that figured out. The people in need may all have different needs, but none of them need "fancy" as much as they need function. A cheap skein of washable wool yarn makes one baby sweater for maybe $10. A simple acrylic yarn like Pound of Love by Lion Brand is durable and soft for that same amount of money or less. It will make 4 sweaters of the same yardage. So go ahead - tell that one mother that her baby will be getting a really nice sweater, then you can tell the other 3 mothers that are standing there, sorry, your baby doesn't get a sweater because I wanted that one to be the best quality. So now you have one warm baby in a fancy sweater and three cold babies with nothing.
> 
> Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> Most charity knitters I know are not rich, nor do they have bottomless budgets, so the amount of money they can spend on the yarn they use for their donations is not real big. When that yarn is gone, there are no more knitting donations until they can afford to buy more. They wouldn't be going home with their bellies full of steak, they would be going home hungry, or with just a burger for themselves as well.
> 
> Where are all the photos of these chemo hats you make for people who enjoy them but don't have to go around bald if they don't have one; I'd love to see them all. I see the pictures of sweaters, shawls, and socks you make for gifts and for yourself, though. So before you get on your high horse and put down the people who are actually doing the work using the yarn that they can afford, and allows them to make as many items to help as many people as possible for that budget, find out what REAL charity knitting is really about. Those wonderful people like Donnie K don't knit for fancy, they knit for others - from their hearts. And the people who are lucky enough to get something knitted by them know they just got something special.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: You said what I was thinking and feeling. :thumbup: :thumbup: 
I know what is in my heart and soul. So I am confident in what I use for my crafts and for whom they go to.
I am not going to let a few accidents force me to reject my giving nature.
Especially when one happened with a store bought synthetic.
I am not going to be forced or bullied into a bubble. Accidents happen.
I have been hurt deeply by what some say about charity crafting and giving recently here on this forum.
All I can say is ... so heartless to imply that my crafted items are "useless" or "dog blankets" or any of the other cruel remarks.
It is MY money, NOT yours. I will scrimp and scrounge, and pinch those 2 pennies tightly (I have been doing it all of my life), to save up for my yarn stash.
I will continue with my donations with what the Charity Organization's guidelines are (not yours).
By asking a "few" hospitals, does not constitute the overall rules of the world.
An added note, you do not know of my life experiences (be it triumph or tragedy); 
so please do not say the majority of folks here do not know of what you speak (no matter what the topic).


----------



## vjh1530

AmyKnits said:


> Vicky, I really don't wish to reply to your comments, but since you like to quote me, I would simply like to say that this is an open forum where we share ideas and information.
> 
> We all have the right to our own opinions and choices. I choose to knit with what I do with the fibers I choose to and for whom I choose to for many reasons and I hope you do the same.
> 
> I, however, will refrain from name calling, making conclusions and judging you for your choices. As I said... I am here to learn and share.... Being nasty, name calling and making assumptions on what others think, believe or do is just rude. If it makes you feel better about yourself, then so be it. Just please don't expect me to behave in the same manner.
> 
> The chemo hats I made I put in a basket at the Dr. Office for patients to take. We have patients on public assistance as well as wealthy patients.... They are all welcome to take a chemo hat. They are ALL knitted for chemo patients... I HAVE shared photos here on KP of them. If you think others who knit for homeless people are "better" or "more giving" than myself, than that is fine with me. I don't know you, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. I choose not to judge you or insult you simply because you and I don't see "charity" knitting the same way!
> 
> Enjoy your evening and your knitting!


I never called you a name, but you are free to interpret however you choose. You love to preach respect and other's being entitled to their opinions - as long as those opinions are the same as your opinions. If they aren't, you post after post after post about how wrong that person is. And I do find many of your comments of late to be "nasty" and "rude" as well, so I guess we're even.

I will enjoy both my knitting and my evening. It sure won't be on this thread having pointless conversations.


----------



## courier770

I think that the message Amy and I are trying to send has been taken out of context..though Amy has been a huge supporter of mine ever since she heard of Matt's "saga". Matt was so much more than merely a "brother in law"..he and I were so close in age. He quit being the baby brother when I married his big brother..though our birthday's were just a few months apart. He was the "slightly older" big brother I always wanted...the perfect uncle to my son....and my step son. Losing him was difficult but watching him suffer was horrific. He was the kind of uncle that would have suffered every pain for his nephews...and on that fateful day...he did exactly that. 

The lesson was one that I alone learned...our entire family learned about fibers and flamability. 

I think that there are great bonds in burn units..bonds that others rarely others understand.

One memory I have of this entire mess..is being encouraged to bring Matt beer! Oh lord how he loved the stuff and a body healing from burns goes through so many calories that I think only burn units welcome a nice 6 pack of microwbrew. 
I miss Matt. His impact on my life was great. 

Deep burns are a horrific thing to suffer. We'd like to think they happen to other people..but they happen to people like Matt...good guys who were terrific uncles to their nephews and pretty awesome to their "little sisters in law". 

What bothers me most is that he missed the signs of lung cancer due to the horrific burns he suffered as a young man. Those telltale signs of "tightening of the chest" he attributed to the horrific burns he suffered as a young man. 

Matt got two weeks from diagnosis to grave..he had so much more to give..but for the sake of a synthetic shirt.


----------



## mopgenorth

AmyKnits said:


> Vicky, I really don't wish to reply to your comments, but since you like to quote me, I would simply like to say that this is an open forum where we share ideas and information.
> 
> We all have the right to our own opinions and choices. I choose to knit with what I do with the fibers I choose to and for whom I choose to and that is my right.
> 
> I, however, will refrain from name calling, making conclusions and judging you for your choices. As I said... I am here to learn and share.... Being nasty, name calling and making assumptions on what others think, believe or do is just rude. If it makes you feel better about yourself, then so be it. Just please don't expect me to behave in the same manner.
> 
> The chemo hats I made I put in a basket at the Dr. Office for patients to take. We have patients on public assistance as well as wealthy patients.... They are all welcome to take a chemo hat. They are ALL knitted for chemo patients... I HAVE shared photos here on KP of them. If you don't feel that qualifies as "charity", I respect that, however, that is what I choose to do.
> 
> If you think others who knit for OTHER charities are "better" or "more giving" than myself, than that is fine with me. I don't know you, you are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. I choose not to judge you or insult you simply because you and I don't see "charity" knitting the same way!
> 
> If you choose to knit blankets and sweaters for babies using acrylic, I will not insult you, however I will point out the dangers of doing so.... Just as several knitters educated me. That is the purpose of being a member of a forum, After all.
> 
> Enjoy your evening and your knitting!


Nope - I was wrong... Amy wins - hands down - once again she has proven she is indeed the queen when it comes to pompousness, pretentiousness and idiocy.


----------



## courier770

My mother became a chemo patient when I was 12 years old. I was a late in life baby for her and my father. AT some level I feel "cheated" out of having parents for longer than I should have. Though on another level I will never forget my mother asking me to to help her find a fiber to cover her bald head in the final months of her life. By the time I was 16 years old she had had a radical mastectomy and underwent a lobectomy to remove part of a cancerous lung. All I wanted was to have my "Mom" around for a few more years...she was gone before my son entered kindergarten. I was still in my 20's.

Quite frankly I never felt so alone in my life. That was nearly 40 years ago and I still feel the same. There's just times when you want to scream "I want more time"...but no matter how much time we get..it's never enough. *sigh*


----------



## AmyKnits

galaxycraft said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: You said what I was thinking and feeling. :thumbup: :thumbup:
> I know what is in my heart and soul. So I am confident in what I use for my crafts and for whom they go to.
> I am not going to let a few accidents force me to reject my giving nature.
> Especially when one happened with a store bought synthetic.
> I am not going to be forced or bullied into a bubble. Accidents happen.
> I have been hurt deeply by what some say about charity crafting and giving recently here on this forum.
> All I can say is ... so heartless to imply that my crafted items are "useless" or "dog blankets" or any of the other cruel remarks.
> It is MY money, NOT yours. I will scrimp and scrounge, and pinch those 2 pennies tightly (I have been doing it all of my life), to save up for my yarn stash.
> I will continue with my donations with what the Charity Organization's guidelines are (not yours).
> By asking a "few" hospitals, does not constitute the overall rules of the world.


No one can tell you what to do. You have your own choice as to what you want to knit, who you want to knit for and what fibers you choose to use.

I choose to use superwash wool for the mission hats and mittens because it is warmer than acrylic and that is what I choose to use and make.... Could I make more if I used less expensive yarn, absolutely not... My time is limited. But I don't think I should be criticized for my choices or made to feel I am "wrong" for not making more....

I choose to use luxury fibers to knit chemo hats for patients because that is my choice. Apparently donating chemo hats at my Dr. Office is not considered "charity" knitting to some... It doesn't change the fact that I choose to knit them!

This is simply a choice. I choose to knit baby items with wool. You may choose something else. I am an adult. It doesn't upset me or hurt my feelings that you may not agree with my choices....

What I fail to understand is why anyone would be insulted or upset because my views and choices are different than theirs.

I am neither upset, hurt, offended or insulted that your choices are different than mine. Why would I be?!?! It makes no sense.

The comment I made was that I think differently than many knitters who explain they use expensive yarns for themselves and cheaper yarns for charity knitting. I would prefer to use the less expensive yarn for myself and save the better yarn for charity knitting..... Why would this comment upset or offend anyone?! It is my choice AND the charity is getting something nicer than I would wear.... I already said that most people don't agree... I am ok with that...


----------



## vikicooks

Wow, Vicki- I thought all that was aimed at me until I realized there is another Viki! I only joined a few days ago and already am being told I am a irresponsible , uncaring person who is risking horrible harm to people due to my yarn choices. Not one person here knows my life, or any of the things that have happened to me or my family. I could match story for story, but I won't .i feel bad for the OP - she was just saying it's too bad some yarns are out of reach for many of us. Bet she never expected all this reaction! Not sure if this is the place for me- I just want to meet people who like to knit. I am way too old to be lectured and talked at by a couple of well- meaning people.


----------



## mopgenorth

vikicooks said:


> Wow, Vicki- I thought all that was aimed at me until I realized there is another Viki! I only joined a few days ago and already am being told I am a irresponsible , uncaring person who is risking horrible harm to people due to my yarn choices. Not one person here knows my life, or any of the things that have happened to me or my family. I could match story for story, but I won't .i feel bad for the OP - she was just saying it's too bad some yarns are out of reach for many of us. Bet she never expected all this reaction! Not sure if this is the place for me- I just want to meet people who like to knit. I am way too old to be lectured and talked at by a couple of well- meaning people.


Rest assured that the handful of superfluous, self-righteous and self-absorbed proliferative posters do not represent the majority. You are in good hands and whatever you care to contribute or share is always welcome. I'm so glad you stepped forward - welcome!


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## vjh1530

vikicooks said:


> Wow, Vicki- I thought all that was aimed at me until I realized there is another Viki! I only joined a few days ago and already am being told I am a irresponsible , uncaring person who is risking horrible harm to people due to my yarn choices. Not one person here knows my life, or any of the things that have happened to me or my family. I could match story for story, but I won't .i feel bad for the OP - she was just saying it's too bad some yarns are out of reach for many of us. Bet she never expected all this reaction! Not sure if this is the place for me- I just want to meet people who like to knit. I am way too old to be lectured and talked at by a couple of well- meaning people.


Love your name, lol!!

Nope, it's me who is the evil one, Bwwwhhhaaaaa!! This foolishness rolls off my back, life is too short.

Please give the forum a little time before you decide to leave. Most of the people here are wonderful and helpful, there are just a few who wish to be Queen. Ignore them and enjoy the benefits of KP. I think you will learn a lot, and get great ideas for new projects. There are many creative knitters here.


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## vikicooks

I will stay away from this subject, and enjoy all the other topics! I have so much to learn- this is a wonderful place to do just that. Thank you.


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## peachy51

vikicooks said:


> Wow, Vicki- I thought all that was aimed at me until I realized there is another Viki! I only joined a few days ago and already am being told I am a irresponsible , uncaring person who is risking horrible harm to people due to my yarn choices. Not one person here knows my life, or any of the things that have happened to me or my family. I could match story for story, but I won't .i feel bad for the OP - she was just saying it's too bad some yarns are out of reach for many of us. Bet she never expected all this reaction! Not sure if this is the place for me- I just want to meet people who like to knit. I am way too old to be lectured and talked at by a couple of well- meaning people.


Please don't leave. This is a great site and there are many wonderful people here ... but we are a community and as with any community from time to time we have some drama.

There is a lot of great info given and received on a daily basis on this site. And, talking about choices, we have the choice to jump into or not jump into the drama


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## rohohappy

Well, you enjoy your red heart yarn....I feel sorry you cant afford a few more $ to buy a wool blend that wont melt if your receipient gets to close to a heater, radiator or fireplace. yes acrylic will melt to the wearer if to close to heat source. I will pray for your wearers.


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## Bummy

Sorry, wrong post


----------



## Bummy

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


Been there, done that! Vet bills, hay, grain! Hard to get a sheep sitter to be able to go on vacation! Sheep are dumber than a box of rocks..however..those sweet little wooly faces....


----------



## galaxycraft

rohohappy said:


> Well, you enjoy your red heart yarn....I feel sorry you cant afford a few more $ to buy a wool blend
> that wont melt if your receipient gets to close to a heater, *radiator* or fireplace.
> yes acrylic will melt to the wearer *if to close to heat source*.
> I will pray for your wearers.


:lol: :lol: :XD: 
Sorry, some go into a hot dryer without setting the house on fire. :lol: 
The same can be said for a store bought blanket.
Oh geezzz...let's not forget the sheet that falls off the bed.
The potholder too close to the gas stove flame when cooking.
The paper plate that gets set on the electric stove burner thinking it was cooled down completely.
Don't hang those Christmas stockings too close to the flames in the fireplace. :mrgreen: 
Many people place store bought clothing on the grates in front of the fireplace to dry - also on radiators.

I am sure the recipients will welcome your prayers for better times in their lives.
BTW - I use more than Red Heart, and my acrylic content (whatever %) knitting doesn't "squeak".

And don't feel sorry for me. I am a humbled person who is grateful for what I have.
There are millions less fortunate than me.


----------



## blessedinMO

rohohappy said:


> Well, you enjoy your red heart yarn....I feel sorry you cant afford a few more $ to buy a wool blend that wont melt if your receipient gets to close to a heater, radiator or fireplace. yes acrylic will melt to the wearer if to close to heat source. I will pray for your wearers.


I am not understanding something here. The sweaters we buy at Walmart - are they all wool blend fiber?


----------



## vikicooks

Good night, everyone! Thank you for the words of welcome and encouragement. I will look forward to seeing my face on a wanted poster. Thank you for the prayers- we all need as many as we can get!


----------



## Knitcrazydeborah

blessedinMO said:


> I am not understanding something here. The sweaters we buy at Walmart - are they all wool blend fiber?


Pretty much none of them, and all the baby clothes and blankets too. I wish it were differnt but it's not. During the entire Polio epidemic in the 1050's 3,150 children died in the US. During the exact same time period more than 12,000 children burned to death in home fires. But they didn't get a vaccine or all the attention. They were mostly poor kids from poor beighborhoods. I'd better shut up, I'm starting to rant! 🙋 Sorry!


----------



## Jaymacphe

Just looked at that site and found "Cobweb" weight yarn....the mere thought gives me the shudders. I must admit it looked absolutely beautiful though. Jay


----------



## Ciyona

I am sorry for your loss Courier770. That is what plastic does and it is so sad. As a cancer patient myself I think of all the chemo hats that are made and how many are made of acrylics. When we have wigs we are told about the fire hazzards and to keep them away from a hot stove. the same goes for yarns that are acrylic. I sure wouldn't want it to catch fire and melt on my head. Many people are so unaware of the dangers. I couldn't imagine a child getting warm by a fire wearing acrylic yarns and accidently get too close. Anyway you get the point.
Again I will keep you in my prayers that you may find peace and healing from your loss.


----------



## Sagarika

What started as a simple statement has grown into a nasty vituperative war of words. It is sad. Let us accept that exposing unsuspecting innocent children to fire hazards due to misplaced notions of charity is NOT IN.Let us leave it at that.


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## Sagarika

That is NOT a nice statement


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## Sagarika

Sorry, wrong post


----------



## mousepotato

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


If you think yarn is expensive now, trust me, this is more expensive. Right now sheep feed is running about $15 for a 50 lb sack.


----------



## dijewe

gin-red said:


> They have a web site. I buy sale yarn there frequently.


Yes I know since I am a frequent flyer on that website


----------



## dijewe

AmyKnits said:


> No one can tell you what to do. You have your own choice as to what you want to knit, who you want to knit for and what fibers you choose to use.
> 
> I choose to use superwash wool for the mission hats and mittens because it is warmer than acrylic and that is what I choose to use and make.... Could I make more if I used less expensive yarn, absolutely not... My time is limited. But I don't think I should be criticized for my choices or made to feel I am "wrong" for not making more....
> 
> I choose to use luxury fibers to knit chemo hats for patients because that is my choice. Apparently donating chemo hats at my Dr. Office is not considered "charity" knitting to some... It doesn't change the fact that I choose to knit them!
> 
> This is simply a choice. I choose to knit baby items with wool. You may choose something else. I am an adult. It doesn't upset me or hurt my feelings that you may not agree with my choices....
> 
> What I fail to understand is why anyone would be insulted or upset because my views and choices are different than theirs.
> 
> I am neither upset, hurt, offended or insulted that your choices are different than mine. Why would I be?!?! It makes no sense.
> 
> The comment I made was that I think differently than many knitters who explain they use expensive yarns for themselves and cheaper yarns for charity knitting. I would prefer to use the less expensive yarn for myself and save the better yarn for charity knitting..... Why would this comment upset or offend anyone?! It is my choice AND the charity is getting something nicer than I would wear.... I already said that most people don't agree... I am ok with that...


Well I for one appreciate your posts on this topic - you keep me on the straight and narrow so to speak. Each time I consider using acrylic yarn for anything, I think about your point of view on using wool instead. It makes sense to me and since I have followed this advice numerous times, I also know that it isn't going to cost an arm and a leg to
purchase wool instead of acrylic. In fact I just ordered superwash wool from WEBS for $3.19 a ball.


----------



## AmyKnits

"This will probably finish off what little "friendship" you and I had left, but I am tired of comments like, If it was made in decent yarn it would have been breathtaking, or something to that effect. Wow, do you have any idea what a nasty comment that is to the people here who post photos of their work? And you became judge and jury - when? I must have missed that day. There are plenty of us here who probably don't always agree with the yarn choices you have made for some of the projects you have posted, but how would you feel is someone said something like that to you after all your hard work?"



I am confused. When I look at an item and think to myself that I believe that item is OK, but would be AMAZING looking in a different yarn.... how could that be hurting anyone? That is not a nasty comment, but a note to myself that I would knit the same item, possibly differently.

Isn't the whole purpose of posting photos to show others what you have done so they can also look. IF I were to make a comment directly to the poster commenting on a specific item saying that it would be better in another fiber, THAT would be hurtful. I have never done that.

Are you in denial that you LOVE each and every project that is posted here on KP and you wouldn't change a thing? It is not "judge and jury" when I look at items every day and think that If I were to knit them I would do things differently.... different fibers, different colors, different trim, etc. 

So it is wrong... according to some... that I look at photos and THINK that they would be more beautiful in a different fiber? The fact that I share my thought that SOME projects, in my opinion would be better in another fiber is hurting who? How? Unless you can read my mind... I don't understand your point!!!! 

I believe that is the entire reason we show photos... I could be wrong....


----------



## AmyKnits

"You knit for your doctor's patients because you WANT to, not because they NEED it. Ask yourself, do you use great yarns because THEY need it or because they will tell you how wonderful you are to make such a pretty, fancy hat for them. That is NOT charity knitting. That is gift-giving. They are not living on street corners, or homeless shelters, or tiny apartments without hot water and housing 4 families."


I knit hats for MY patients that are going through chemo. I also have knitted a basket of hats that are delivered to a Cancer treatment center in our area by my husband. 

I spoke to the office manager once on the phone to ask permission to knit the hats and deliver them. I have no idea who receives the hats and no one has any idea who has knitted them... so I don't get the glory that you would ASSUME I am looking for. 

I consider giving beautiful hats to women who are going through the toughest battle of their lives as charity. I am giving them something that makes them feel beautiful and gives them comfort no matter how much money they have. Whether it IS charity to some is debatable, but I will continue to knit them hats.

I gave a donation to a Breast Cancer Awareness charity last week.... is this NOT a CHARITY because they are not giving the money to homeless, destitute people, but to cancer research? I guess my definition of "Charity" is to help anyone in need..... not only homeless and destitute.


----------



## AmyKnits

"That is the most hard-core example of homeless. There are many levels and I think most people here who really knit for charity have that figured out. The people in need may all have different needs, but none of them need "fancy" as much as they need function. A cheap skein of washable wool yarn makes one baby sweater for maybe $10. A simple acrylic yarn like Pound of Love by Lion Brand is durable and soft for that same amount of money or less. It will make 4 sweaters of the same yardage. So go ahead - tell that one mother that her baby will be getting a really nice sweater, then you can tell the other 3 mothers that are standing there, sorry, your baby doesn't get a sweater because I wanted that one to be the best quality. So now you have one warm baby in a fancy sweater and three cold babies with nothing."


This is all a mute point. I, personally only have limited time to knit. I can only knit one sweater, not four. MY personal choice is to knit EVERY item I knit with the BEST yarn I can afford and the BEST yarn for the project... no matter WHO I am knitting for.

Because I personally knit one sweater with superwash wool and donate it doesn't mean anyone else is going without. I don't have the luxury or option to knit 4 more with less expensive yarn. IF I DID have enough time to knit four sweaters, I would still knit them with the BEST yarn I could find for the job.

Your point makes no sense. I choose to knit as many items as I can in the BEST fibers I can find. This will never mean anyone will be going "without" because of my personal choice in fibers.

You need to realize that despite what you think, your preconceived ideas about me and your assumptions about why YOU THINK I do things.... you don't know me at all. To make these kinds of comments about who I am and how I live my life without even having met me or had a conversation with me really makes you look like a pretty judgmental and nasty person. I am sure that wasn't your intent, but perhaps you should do some thinking and ask some questions about it before making assumptions about why I do the things I do.

To explain how homeless people live really hits the matter home. Do you have any idea how much knowledge I do or do not have about the homeless? Yet you need to educate me on the fact that they don't use toilet tissue and stink. Do you know that I have spent 20 years working in a homeless shelter? You have no idea.... what I know or don't know and what my background is. Your tone is condescending for no reason on earth as you don't know me at all.

The bottom line is that your opinion of me has no bearing on the decisions I make because you don't know me and I do not know you... therefore your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me personally.


----------



## pheonas

What in the world happened with this post?? It started out so innocuous on page one.


----------



## AmyKnits

"Where are all the photos of these chemo hats you make for people who enjoy them but don't have to go around bald if they don't have one; I'd love to see them all. I see the pictures of sweaters, shawls, and socks you make for gifts and for yourself, though".



Are you suggesting that I am lying about the hats I give to the chemo patients OR that when I post them I am "supposed to.... according to Vicki" post that these are specifically for chemo patients?!?!?!

I am one of the most productive knitters I have met on KP. I knit very quickly and post MANY of my items to share with others.... when I have knitted an item I like to add photos and links to patterns along with my modifications and fibers used to show others what I like about my projects and what I would do differently IF I were to knit the same project again.

So, in order to qualify my work to be considered "charity"... I need to label all my work as a "chemo hat"? Sorry... that will never happen. I share as much information as I feel will help others be successful as knitters and it is not my intention to specify what projects I make and give to friends, family, keep for myself or give as charity. I don't see why that is necessary... to PROVE I have knitted for charity?! I don't need to PROVE anything to anyone here on KP or anywhere else.... that is not how I live my life.


----------



## rohohappy

Im happy for all of you that can settle for less than what you deserve. Me for one doesn't want something plastic next to my skin or anyone else I love. Happy Knitting


----------



## mopgenorth

AmyKnits said:


> This is all a mute point.


Mute point and moot point is a commonly misunderstood phrase. Mute means to silence or quiet. Moot means impractical or irrelevant. A moot point means that the issue isn't up for debate and is irrelevant as the outcome has already been determined. There is no phrase of mute point. The correct terminology is moot point.

Some people say this thinking it means, Lets put the mute button on and cease any discussion on this.

Wouldnt it be funny if the term evolves this way to become correct? After all, with the ubiquity of remote controls and mute buttons, a mute point may make more sense than a moot point to someone whos not a lawyer.

Although, wouldn't it be grand if there was a mute button on KP? it would certainly cut down on the number of pages consumed by silly redundancy.


----------



## galaxycraft

rohohappy said:


> Im happy for all of you that can settle for less than what you deserve.


I think we each as individuals determine what we "deserve" in life.
And there are people in the world that take it to the extreme (the give me, give me person).
As for me, as long as I have a roof over my head (could be a shack for all I care), food in my stomach, and other basic needs; I am thankful to be alive each day.
There is more to life than the material things and who has more of what mentality.

BTW - how's your Alpaca farm??
Comfy, cozy living, huh?!


----------



## Fun knits

mopgenorth said:


> Mute point and moot point is a commonly misunderstood phrase. Mute means to silence or quiet. Moot means impractical or irrelevant. A moot point means that the issue isn't up for debate and is irrelevant as the outcome has already been determined. There is no phrase of mute point. The correct terminology is moot point.
> 
> Some people say this thinking it means, Lets put the mute button on and cease any discussion on this.
> 
> Wouldnt it be funny if the term evolves this way to become correct? After all, with the ubiquity of remote controls and mute buttons, a mute point may make more sense than a moot point to someone whos not a lawyer.
> 
> Although, wouldn't it be grand if there was a mute button on KP? it would certainly cut down on the number of pages consumed by silly redundancy.


Apparently you are lacking in the common decency department as WELL as the computer literacy department...

It would take far too long to explain how rude, nasty and inconsiderate you are as a human being, but I CAN educate you on how to use a FORUM....

We DO HAVE a mute button on KP. Click on UNWATCH and you are free to only spread your nastiness, insults, ignorance and more than OBVIOUS JEALOUSY where you feel it is MOST valuable!

You are not obligated to participate in or comment on ANY topics that do not interest you.... however the rest of us are free to discuss any knitting and/or knitting related topics as long as Admin. allow us to.... not when YOU personally feel that the information is redundant.

Apparently you feel that topics are only worthy of being discussed if YOU deem them so... or as long as YOU personally feel they are worth reading?!

What is the word you used?! Narcissist?! I agree..... you are just that!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

The bottom line is that acrylic items don't keep the people who NEED the warmth the most warm and they're dangerous to boot.

Caring about _that_, instead of whining about being insulted is what demonstrates to people what one's true motivations are.

People can whine about "rudeness" all they want, but it still remains that acrylic doesn't adequately keep people (_who need it the most_) warm and it is dangerous to a group of people who's at higher risk of being caught in a fire, especially children.

Pissing and moaning about how I or anyone else didn't say it politely enough, doesn't change that basic reality.

Other than it only further evinces someone's tendency for self-interest over the legitimate needs of the needy.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

mopgenorth said:


> Mute point and moot point is a commonly misunderstood phrase.


Grammar and spelling nazis are always the asses of every forum.

When someone resorts to that, it shows they're essentially losing the argument.

I'm very confident that Amy knows the difference between moot and mute. Sometimes we all are just tired or are typing quickly and fail to spell-check etc. I myself tend to type phonetically, as I will often spell things out how they sound in my head. I think perhaps it's just a habit I picked up from a phonetics class I took in college


----------



## BluesChanteuse

mopgenorth said:


> Rest assured that the handful of superfluous, self-righteous and self-absorbed proliferative posters do not represent the majority. You are in good hands and whatever you care to contribute or share is always welcome. I'm so glad you stepped forward - welcome!


I agree. I think that MOST people actually CARE about the people they're knitting for and aren't as superfluous, self-righteous and self-absorbed "proliferative" as those who are more worried about their wittle feewins being hurt than they are about the needy for whom they're supposedly knitting.


----------



## suzy-kate

Hope no one takes this the wrong way don't really want to stir up any more arguments, but there are flame resistant acrylic yarns, often used in mixed fibre yarns as well as man made, modacrylic being one form. They are designed to char on the outside so they don't burst into flame or melt and stick to the skin. I only know this because I spent a couple of weeks temping at a company that supplied it a couple of years ago.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> Hope no one takes this the wrong way don't really want to stir up any more arguments, but there are flame resistant acrylic yarns, often used in mixed fibre yarns as well as man made, modacrylic being one form. They are designed to char on the outside so they don't burst into flame or melt and stick to the skin. I only know this because I spent a couple of weeks temping at a company that supplied it a couple of years ago.


Thank you. Good points.

Regarding the modacrylics I'm not sure they won't stick to the skin _eventually_ though. But it's true that it takes longer to burst into flames and it's designed to self-extinguish. But, in a serious fire, I think they can still melt and cause more harm.

The modacrylics are more flame retardant, but they do pill and mat quite a bit and can shrink etc. But, yes, that's certainly a better alternative, however, it's not easy to find in your typical yarn store skein scenario.


----------



## heather.kearins

grannybell said:


> Maybe we need to raise our own sheep, llamas, yaks or some such. What do you think? Shearing, carding, spinning anyone?


GREAT IDEA!!!


----------



## suzy-kate

BluesChanteuse said:


> Thank you. Good points.
> 
> Regarding the modacrylics I'm not sure they won't stick to the skin _eventually_ though. But it's true that it takes longer to burst into flames and it's designed to self-extinguish. But, in a serious fire, I think they can still melt and cause more harm.
> 
> The modacrylics are more flame retardant, but they do pill and mat quite a bit and can shrink etc. But, yes, that's certainly a better alternative, however, it's not easy to find in your typical yarn store skein scenario.


There are more, just can't remember the names, I know they supplied both sirdar and james c brett with materials, I remember seeing one of their promotional videos and the stuff just would not burn, it eventually fell to bits.


----------



## galaxycraft

suzy-kate said:


> Hope no one takes this the wrong way don't really want to stir up any more arguments, but there are flame resistant acrylic yarns, often used in mixed fibre yarns as well as man made, modacrylic being one form. They are designed to char on the outside so they don't burst into flame or melt and stick to the skin. I only know this because I spent a couple of weeks temping at a company that supplied it a couple of years ago.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank You! :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## mousepotato

cydneyjo said:


> Went to that site, Marysue, and it looks amazing. Does anyone know what "cobweb weight" yarn is?


Think sewing thread. I have some in my collection, been there for quite a long time and will stay there just a bit longer.


----------



## mousepotato

dgoll said:


> Also, check the yardage. Some yarns look cheap but have little yardage. Others look expensive but have tons of yardage, which is great for projects where you don't want to join yarn.


This is my biggest issue with KnitPick's yarns. The prices look fabulous until you check the yardage on many of them and do the math for your project. When they get to the 200+ yard stuff it's pretty much the same cost as an LYS.


----------



## Irene P

islandgirl81 said:


> I was just noticing the prices too. Even if I did have the money to splurge, I always think of the what ifs......what if I made a mistake and didn't notice it until it was too late, what if something spilled on it that wouldn't come out in the wash, what if......................
> Free shipping with the purchase of only one skein!!
> I wonder what that yarn "feels" like.
> Can you imagine how many skeins of other yarn you could buy with that much money?


It's funny - I was just thinking about how many skeins I could buy for that price, also. Imagine how many with low yardage would be needed to knit a vest or even just a winter scarf?


----------



## rohohappy

I don't own an alpaca farm....I am living on disability, my husband is a disabled vet and yes I like nice things in my life. I look for bargains too. You Can buy nice yarn of wool and wool blends that is as much or slightly more than your "cheap" red heart.


----------



## galaxycraft

rohohappy said:


> I don't own an alpaca farm....I am living on disability, my husband is a disabled vet and yes I like nice things in my life. I look for bargains too.
> You Can buy nice yarn of wool and wool blends that is as much or slightly more than your "cheap" red heart.


Changed your profile to read "Husband works Alpaca Farm", from We Own Alpaca Farm.
But, it is your story, you can tell it however you please.:wink:
Earlier this year you posted " I am the biggest yarn snob ever. " -- just sayin'.
And excuse me, you do not know what is in my stash.


----------



## rohohappy

my husband no longer works on the farm due to his disabilities. And yes I am a yarn snob...I refuse to knit with plastic. If you don't like get over it . To each his own. I just hope your happy giving the things you knit and that you can live with it....I don't care what is in your stash..as long as you can live with it.


----------



## mopgenorth

galaxycraft said:


> Changed your profile to read "Husband works Alpaca Farm", from We Own Alpaca Farm.
> But, it is your story, you can tell it however you please.:wink:
> Earlier this year you posted " I am the biggest yarn snob ever. " -- just sayin'.
> And excuse me, you do not know what is in my stash.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Revan

"Cobweight" yarn is very thin, like a cobweb. It is used a lot in lace knitting, it seems to be thinner then lace weight yarn. If you Google the name, it will give you a bettern description.


----------



## Revan

Depends on what the pattern calls for, but I wouldn't be surprised if a Size 0 or 1 for cobweight yarn.


----------



## Revan

thumper5316 said:


> Keep your political rhetoric for the appropriate threads. This is not one of them.


If other people can talk about "political rhetoric" she has a right to say what she wants to. Everyone on this forum is equal and no one is above anyone unless one is a yarn snob, then of course they will look down on those who don't use a particular yarn, etc.....


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> There are more, just can't remember the names, I know they supplied both sirdar and james c brett with materials, I remember seeing one of their promotional videos and the stuff just would not burn, it eventually fell to bits.


Great information. As long as we pay attention and are willing to learn, we can make informed choices!

Do you know which james c brett/sidar yarn uses the modacrylics and are they pure or are they mixed with polyester and the such?

I'm unaware of any pure "modacrylic".


----------



## heather.kearins

zebe said:


> :thumbup:


I totally agree. If you look at nice natural yarns and complain about the price, please stop and think about the costs that have to be met before these yarns have even been put on the shelves for sale. Most times it is not the fibre producer or the retailer making too much money. The middle man gets quite a chunk. However, think about how each of these steps, needs to make a profit so they can either produce, manufacture or restock that end product that we all want for our end results.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

mopgenorth said:


> galaxycraft said:
> 
> 
> 
> Changed your profile to read "Husband works Alpaca Farm", from We Own Alpaca Farm.
> But, it is your story, you can tell it however you please.:wink:
> Earlier this year you posted " I am the biggest yarn snob ever. " -- just sayin'.
> And excuse me, you do not know what is in my stash.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Click to expand...

Insulting rohohappy doesn't changes the facts.

It's still true that Acrylic is plastic that doesn't keep anyone warm and is relatively dangerous.

If you're using it for charity, you're not really helping them. Period.

That remains true whether you personally attack people on disability or not.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Revan said:


> If other people can talk about "political rhetoric" she has a right to say what she wants to. Everyone on this forum is equal and no one is above anyone unless one is a yarn snob, then of course they will look down on those who don't use a particular yarn, etc.....


Agreed. Besides it's not "political rhetoric", it's just a simple fact that acrylic yarn is not warm and causes great harm if worn and caught in a fire.

Given that poorer people are at higher fire risk not to mention colder temperatures, it's simply not particularly thoughtful to knit for them with acrylic.

That's not "political", it's just reality.


----------



## heather.kearins

spinlouet said:


> That is why knitters contact me and have me spin the yarn for them. Most times much cheaper than buying the yarn from a store not to mention you get a great quality yarn from hand spin.


I certainly agree with you spinlouet. I too spin a lot for orders. I haven't bought yarn for years, but I do have my own commercial angora yarns (from my years of being in business). I certainly don't want to always use angora so when I or others need yarn for projects, I spin and dye it. I am lucky that we have our own sheep and wool as well as my angora rabbits, but I also have the opportunity to get many other fibres so my need to buy yarns are very rare.


----------



## Revan

You apprently don't know what I was referring to. Start at the beginning and read each comment. There was a person who talked "political rhetoric", not "plastic" yarn, and I was just stating every person has a right to say what they want when others do the same. Some people can say things and get away with it on this forum and other can not.

Yarn is not "political" to me, it is something one makes something out of. 

I just don't understand why people, mainly from the US, have to put down those who knit with Red Heart SS or any other acrylic yarn. The way I see it these people have issues.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Revan said:


> You apprently don't know what I was referring to. Start at the beginning and read each comment. There was a person who talked "political rhetoric", not "plastic" yarn, and I was just stating every person has a right to say what they want when others do the same. Some people can say things and get away with it on this forum and other can not.


You haven't said anything here that indicates how I was wrong about what you're referring to.



Revan said:


> Yarn is not "political" to me, it is something one makes something out of.
> 
> I just don't understand why people, mainly from the US, have to put down those who knit with Red Heart SS or any other acrylic yarn. The way I see it these people have issues.


Because the acrylic is dangerous and doesn't keep anyone warm.

And the people who "have issues" would be the ones who knit with that yarn to give it to "charity" as if they're doing them a favor.

They're not.

There's nothing wrong with using Red Heart and the such for perhaps some crafty projects if that's your choice.

The argument here isn't about criticizing people for using less expensive yarn. If that's what you thought it was, you need to re-read the thread.

But, why would anyone knit mittens that don't keep the charity recipients warm and put them in danger as well?

It's just plain impractical and not particularly thoughtful.


----------



## galaxycraft

BluesChanteuse said:


> Because the acrylic is dangerous and doesn't keep anyone warm.
> 
> And the people who "have issues" would be the ones who knit with that yarn to give it to "charity" as if they're doing them a favor.
> 
> They're not.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with using Red Heart and the such for perhaps some crafty projects if that's your choice.
> 
> The argument here isn't about criticizing people for using less expensive yarn for certain projects.
> 
> But, why would anyone knit mittens that don't keep the charity recipients warm and put them in danger as well?
> 
> It's just plain impractical and not particularly thoughtful.


Has anyone actually said what they make, to make you think that some are making 100% acrylic mittens?
Sorry, but I make them using wool fiber content.

And you all are making it sound like "charity" items are only 100% acrylic and for the homeless type of people.
Get real.
There is too much speculation going on as to what each and every one of us have in our stash, 
or what items we actually make, and from what fiber content, and WHO the recipient is.

What about the family that has just lost their home and staying in a shelter?
Sleeping on a cot or a floor mat on a tiled cement floor in a gymnasium.
There are alot of scenarios as to the WHY and WHO.


----------



## peachy51

I have watched this thread for 16 pages in utter amazement at all the drama ... drama over what kind of yarn an individual chooses to use in their knitting ... yarn that is purely an individual choice.

I honestly can't believe the personal attacks because someone doesn't use or does use a yarn another person doesn't think is suitable.

I use whatever pleases me for the project and person I am knitting the item for. I have some quite expensive, luscious wool and alpaca yarn and I have some lower priced acrylic. In my opinion, they all have their place. For example, I just used a good bit of Red Heart (which I normally never buy because I hate it and the feel of it), but it was the perfect choice for the Christmas Stockings I just made.

As far as the safety issue ... OMG ... how many of you use a sugar substitute? Totally unsafe. How many of you have a gas range? Children can turn them on and gas everyone in the house, not to mention the open flame as a fire hazard. Do you have a swimming pool ... how many children drown every year in back yard pools. And if you really want to talk safety, then you certainly don't want to EVER take your vehicle out of your garage. I would venture to say that more children are injured, maimed and killed every year in vehicle accidents than are injured by acrylic yarn in several decades.

I'm certain that with EVERY food item and every product on the market, someone, somewhere has been injured by that food or product. Personally, I have never known or heard of anyone being injured by acrylic yarn (until I heard about Courier's brother-in-law and my heart goes out to them). 

As far as charity is concerned, there are many charity organizations and hospitals that require knitted items to be acrylic yarn. And then there is the issue of people who have wool allergies.

As far as the warmth issue and those saying that acrylic does not provide any warmth, I beg to differ with you. Where I live it doesn't get nearly as cold as where some of you live, but usually in the winter a long sleeve sweater is all we need. Most of the time, if I were to wear wool I would burn up. That's not saying I don't wear my fetish collection of cashmere sweaters because I do on those rare days that we do have some real cold. But most of the time, the acrylic sweaters I have fit the bill perfectly ... and they are warm. 

But the bottom line here is that every individual who knits has the right to choose the yarn he or she wishes to knit with. Heaven help us if the Government starts telling us what we can knit with ... they already infringe upon our choices way too much.

And for any person to personally attack another person for their yarn choices is just down right nasty and spiteful.

We should never judge another person until we have walked in their shoes. We need to be on this site to learn and share and not to berate other members for their choices.


----------



## galaxycraft

peachy51 said:


> I have watched this thread for 16 pages in utter amazement at all the drama ... drama over what kind of yarn an individual chooses to use in their knitting ... yarn that is purely an individual choice.
> 
> I honestly can't believe the personal attacks because someone doesn't use or does use a yarn another person doesn't think is suitable.
> 
> I use whatever pleases me for the project and person I am knitting the item for. I have some quite expensive, luscious wool and alpaca yarn and I have some lower priced acrylic. In my opinion, they all have their place. For example, I just used a good bit of Red Heart (which I normally never buy because I hate it and the feel of it), but it was the perfect choice for the Christmas Stockings I just made.
> 
> As far as the safety issue ... OMG ... how many of you use a sugar substitute? Totally unsafe. How many of you have a gas range? Children can turn them on and gas everyone in the house, not to mention the open flame as a fire hazard. Do you have a swimming pool ... how many children drown every year in back yard pools. And if you really want to talk safety, then you certainly don't want to EVER take your vehicle out of your garage. I would venture to say that more children are injured, maimed and killed every year in vehicle accidents than are injured by acrylic yarn in several decades.
> 
> I'm certain that with EVERY food item and every product on the market, someone, somewhere has been injured by that food or product. Personally, I have never known or heard of anyone being injured by acrylic yarn (until I heard about Courier's brother-in-law and my heart goes out to them).
> 
> As far as charity is concerned, there are many charity organizations and hospitals that require knitted items to be acrylic yarn. And then there is the issue of people who have wool allergies.
> 
> As far as the warmth issue and those saying that acrylic does not provide any warmth, I beg to differ with you. Where I live it doesn't get nearly as cold as where some of you live, but usually in the winter a long sleeve sweater is all we need. Most of the time, if I were to wear wool I would burn up. That's not saying I don't wear my fetish collection of cashmere sweaters because I do on those rare days that we do have some real cold. But most of the time, the acrylic sweaters I have fit the bill perfectly ... and they are warm.
> 
> But the bottom line here is that every individual who knits has the right to choose the yarn he or she wishes to knit with. Heaven help us if the Government starts telling us what we can knit with ... they already infringe upon our choices way too much.
> 
> And for any person to personally attack another person for their yarn choices is just down right nasty and spiteful.
> 
> We should never judge another person until we have walked in their shoes. We need to be on this site to learn and share and not to berate other members for their choices.


Very well said. I applaud you. :thumbup:


----------



## Mary Su 2

BluesChanteuse said:


> Insulting rohohappy doesn't changes the facts.
> 
> It's still true that Acrylic is plastic that doesn't keep anyone warm and is relatively dangerous.
> 
> If you're using it for charity, you're not really helping them. Period.
> 
> That remains true whether you personally attack people on disability or not.


People seem to keep missing the point that it is actually THE FIRE that is dangerous! The acrylic may melt and cause a more serious burn, but it alone is NOT the cause of the injury, the fire is!!! Most people that die as the result of a fire, die from inhaling too much smoke whether they suffer any burns or not!! 
And as far as acrylic not keeping a person warm, I have many acrylic sweaters, both handmade and purchased that do keep me warm!! And my everyday winter hat is fleece, which as everyone knows is made from recycled plastic bottles!! It keeps me very warm!! I agree, wool may be a better choice, but I would rather be wearing a hat or gloves made of acrylic than go out without a hat or gloves at all!!! And it does get cold in the winter way up here in Canada!!! 
It's all a matter of degrees. Wool is better than acrylic, but acrylic is better than nothing!!!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

galaxycraft said:


> Has anyone actually said what they make, to make you think that some are making 100% acrylic mittens?
> Sorry, but I make them using wool.


That's what the discussion is.

If you make them using wool, then good choice!

However, if you peruse the board there's quite a few people that have indicated they use the cheapest yarn possible for charity knitting and balk at the suggestion that using acrylic is not the best idea.

If they agree, what are the balking at?

If you have a source of natural fiber yarn at 50cents a 100gram skein, more power to ya!

Thats the whole point. We've been saying you CAN get natural fiber yarn "on the cheap" and there's no reason to use acrylic for charity knitting.

No one is saying you have to use fancy, expensive yarn.

But, with Red Heart, whether it's 100% acrylic or 30% acrylic, the acrylic could STILL melt onto a child's skin if they were caught in a fire and take the burns from survivable to life threatening.


----------



## blessedinMO

Thank you peachy. Wool blends are not available to me where I live both by location and by my income. I knit Red Heart for my family, but I can not knit hats and mittens for the homeless according to the advising experts. Is this possible?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> I have watched this thread for 16 pages in utter amazement at all the drama ... drama over what kind of yarn an individual chooses to use in their knitting ... yarn that is purely an individual choice.


\

You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.

It's not about what someone personally chooses.

The argument is about charity knitting and that acrylic yarn

1) isn't warm
2) is dangerous.

Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.

But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.

If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

galaxycraft said:


> Very well said. I applaud you. :thumbup:


Of course, it has nothing to do with the argument that's been going on. But, if one likes pointless "verbage", it's a great post!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Thank you peachy. Wool blends are not available to me where I live both by location and by my income. I knit Red Heart for my family, but I can not knit hats and mittens for the homeless according to the advising experts. Is this possible?


Of course you CAN.

It's just not particularly helpful to the needy (not very warm) and it endangers them.

And it's not "expertise", it's very simple factual information.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

peachy51, I agree, well said. 
And it gets cold where I live, but I wear both acrylic and wool. Even when it's cold, wool is sometimes too hot. So is acrylic, especially when clothes are layered. And I really believe in layering.
I lived where it was colder, and I had to wear rabbit fur mittens and hat to go to work. Just wool alone wasn't enough.


----------



## heather.kearins

peachy51 said:


> I have watched this thread for 16 pages in utter amazement at all the drama ... drama over what kind of yarn an individual chooses to use in their knitting ... yarn that is purely an individual choice.
> 
> I honestly can't believe the personal attacks because someone doesn't use or does use a yarn another person doesn't think is suitable.
> 
> I use whatever pleases me for the project and person I am knitting the item for. I have some quite expensive, luscious wool and alpaca yarn and I have some lower priced acrylic. In my opinion, they all have their place. For example, I just used a good bit of Red Heart (which I normally never buy because I hate it and the feel of it), but it was the perfect choice for the Christmas Stockings I just made.
> 
> As far as the safety issue ... OMG ... how many of you use a sugar substitute? Totally unsafe. How many of you have a gas range? Children can turn them on and gas everyone in the house, not to mention the open flame as a fire hazard. Do you have a swimming pool ... how many children drown every year in back yard pools. And if you really want to talk safety, then you certainly don't want to EVER take your vehicle out of your garage. I would venture to say that more children are injured, maimed and killed every year in vehicle accidents than are injured by acrylic yarn in several decades.
> 
> I'm certain that with EVERY food item and every product on the market, someone, somewhere has been injured by that food or product. Personally, I have never known or heard of anyone being injured by acrylic yarn (until I heard about Courier's brother-in-law and my heart goes out to them).
> 
> As far as charity is concerned, there are many charity organizations and hospitals that require knitted items to be acrylic yarn. And then there is the issue of people who have wool allergies.
> 
> As far as the warmth issue and those saying that acrylic does not provide any warmth, I beg to differ with you. Where I live it doesn't get nearly as cold as where some of you live, but usually in the winter a long sleeve sweater is all we need. Most of the time, if I were to wear wool I would burn up. That's not saying I don't wear my fetish collection of cashmere sweaters because I do on those rare days that we do have some real cold. But most of the time, the acrylic sweaters I have fit the bill perfectly ... and they are warm.
> 
> But the bottom line here is that every individual who knits has the right to choose the yarn he or she wishes to knit with. Heaven help us if the Government starts telling us what we can knit with ... they already infringe upon our choices way too much.
> 
> And for any person to personally attack another person for their yarn choices is just down right nasty and spiteful.
> 
> We should never judge another person until we have walked in their shoes. We need to be on this site to learn and share and not to berate other members for their choices.


I totally agree!


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> \
> 
> You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.


LOL ... so now you are going to attack me, huh? I can read and have read EVERY post in this thread, including what some have inferred to without actually saying it. I have perfect skills at comprehending what I read.



> It's not about what someone personally chooses.
> 
> The argument is about charity knitting and that acrylic yarn
> 
> 1) isn't warm
> 2) is dangerous.
> 
> Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.
> 
> But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.
> 
> If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.


That, ma'am is your opinion and you are entitled to it


----------



## rohohappy

I appreciate everyones comments on my thoughts of acrylic yarn. As such they are my thoughts and I guess I should have kept them to myself. I was just thinking that for roughly the same price one could get wool or wool blends and make wonderful items that would be warm yet breathable. Acrylic does not breath and will be very hot and make one sweaty. Wool breaths and allows the wearers skin to wick away the the moisture thus keeping the body warm. And yes, knitting for the homeless with acrylic does put them in danger as they are often near open flames to try and keep warm. If they get too close to a heat source and it melts, it will give 2nd and 3rd degree burns. Being retired from medicine I have seen this first hand. Yes I am a yarn snob. I do prefer natural fibers next to my skin.I do not wear synthetic sweaters.


----------



## galaxycraft

BluesChanteuse said:


> You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.
> 
> It's not about what someone personally chooses.
> 
> The argument is about charity knitting and that acrylic yarn
> 
> 1) isn't warm
> 2) is dangerous.
> 
> Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.
> 
> But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.
> 
> If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.


http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-209754-9.html#4182126

It is interesting to note that this is what you had to say just 2 weeks ago.


BluesChanteuse said:


> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items.
> *If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... *
> if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> 
> However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn.
> (_Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy"._)


----------



## suzy-kate

BluesChanteuse said:


> Great information. As long as we pay attention and are willing to learn, we can make informed choices!
> 
> Do you know which james c brett/sidar yarn uses the modacrylics and are they pure or are they mixed with polyester and the such?
> 
> I'm unaware of any pure "modacrylic".


The company was just the supplier, so I only knew who they supplied, not what the customer did with it. All of the materials they supplied, and there were a lot of them, were fire retardant or flame resistant, I was told that a lot of there stuff was mixed with cotton, linen, bamboo to stop them flairing up, something to do with decreasing the oxygen level. Must say I was shocked at how fast some of the natural fibers flame up when ignited.


----------



## medusa

galaxycraft said:


> Very well said. I applaud you. :thumbup:


Ditto!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## rohohappy

Try on line buying


----------



## rohohappy

Then get over it!!!!! Go on with your knitting and be happy


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## rohohappy

Natural fibers such as wool, alpaca, yak, etc will not flame up. They turn to dust when burned, Try it in an ashtray. Lite natural fiber and then lite acrylic. The natural will turn to dust and the acrylic turns to a hard ball of plastic.


----------



## Irene P

rohohappy said:


> I don't own an alpaca farm....I am living on disability, my husband is a disabled vet and yes I like nice things in my life. I look for bargains too. You Can buy nice yarn of wool and wool blends that is as much or slightly more than your "cheap" red heart.


Red Heart is not a cheap yarn, but a fairly good yarn. In the past, I have used expensive yarns that do not meet quality standards. But, I guess we all have our own levels of quality. Keep in mind, that some people are allergic to wool, and newborn children should NOT wearing it due to some side affects it gives them.


----------



## suzy-kate

rohohappy said:


> Natural fibers such as wool, alpaca, yak, etc will not flame up. They turn to dust when burned, Try it in an ashtray. Lite natural fiber and then lite acrylic. The natural will turn to dust and the acrylic turns to a hard ball of plastic.


Then set fire to cotton, linen, bamboo they're all natural fibers and unless treated burn with a very hot flame, think of candle wicks. My GS's can't wear a lot of wools, they come out in a rash, so we've been trying various mixed yarns which they tolerate far better. Rather than argue with each other perhaps we should petition the manufacturers to let us know the burn/melting rates etc of their yarns. At the end of the day many bought clothing/blankets are just or far more flammable than hand knitted items.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... so now you are going to attack me, huh? I can read and have read EVERY post in this thread, including what some have inferred to without actually saying it. I have perfect skills at comprehending what I read


Then the third option is that you were willfully misconstruing what was said.

And you don't have to worry about me inferring, I come right out and say it.



peachy51 said:


> That, ma'am is your opinion and you are entitled to it


No ma'am, those are scientific facts. You are entitled to your own opinions by you're not entitled to your own "facts".

It's is simply factual that acrylic is more dangerous and not particularly warm for the very people who need warmth the most.


----------



## Knitcrazydeborah

I use Superwash wool for charity projects whenever I can. A few years ago, when knitting for Alaskan Eskimo children, the agency politely asked for wool, alpaca, or blends because the acrylics just "are not warm enough". They were exceedingly polite about it, and we complied. Since then, I try to think about where my knitting will end up, and attempt to buy yarn that suits it's destination. In the case of the kids who lived so far out in the wilderness that the Air National Guard air lifted our gifts and dropped them out of the plane,I was pretty sure the hats and mittens might not get washed "in the gentle cycle"!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

rohohappy said:


> I appreciate everyones comments on my thoughts of acrylic yarn. As such they are my thoughts and I guess I should have kept them to myself. I was just thinking that for roughly the same price one could get wool or wool blends and make wonderful items that would be warm yet breathable. Acrylic does not breath and will be very hot and make one sweaty. Wool breaths and allows the wearers skin to wick away the the moisture thus keeping the body warm. And yes, knitting for the homeless with acrylic does put them in danger as they are often near open flames to try and keep warm. If they get too close to a heat source and it melts, it will give 2nd and 3rd degree burns. Being retired from medicine I have seen this first hand. Yes I am a yarn snob. I do prefer natural fibers next to my skin.I do not wear synthetic sweaters.


Agreed. As I said before, (and damn it, I can't seem to find the article on google but I remember the story pretty clearly)...

There was a city that required that charity knitting be of natural fibers only, and that very year, the occurrence of frostbite in emergency rooms were cut in half.

These effects are very real.

I think some people, who can only see the world through their own lens, keep coming up with anecdotes about how "their family" has done fine with acrylics.

Well, fine, but then again, unless your family is homeless and trying to keep warm by rickety heaters and bon fires or have to sleep at night in literally freezing weather, then what your family goes through is NOT an applicable anecdote.

Of course, although the risk is less, ANYONE can get caught in a fire, and I don't know about you, but if my kids/grandkids were wearing something acrylic I'd knitted them and either died or severely scarred because of it, I don't know if I could ever forgive myself.

So, I don't "choose" to take that risk.

But quite literally, a homeless person trying to sleep in freezing temperatures would be better off going through the garbage and finding someone's old cotton underwear to wrap around their hands/feet than wearing acrylic gloves socks.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> Then set fire to cotton, linen, bamboo they're all natural fibers and unless treated burn with a very hot flame, think of candle wicks.


Part of the problem here is that some are arguing against things that were never said or claimed.

Of course natural fibers catch on fire. Just about EVERYTHING can catch on fire given specific circumstances.

The argument is what harm it's likely to cause to the body IF caught in a fire and how quickly it flames up/extinguishes.

Wool is absolutely the safest and cotton/bamboo etc will extinguish quicker and won't stick to the burns.

Acrylic is literally dangerous and will take burns that would've been relatively minor had someone been wearing wool/cotton and make the injuries much more severe with deep scarring and sometimes literally life threatening.

It's just absolutely true that plastic melting on one's skin is a MUCH more dangerous situation.



suzy-kate said:


> My GS's can't wear a lot of wools, they come out in a rash, so we've been trying various mixed yarns which they tolerate far better. Rather than argue with each other perhaps we should petition the manufacturers to let us know the burn/melting rates etc of their yarns. At the end of the day many bought clothing/blankets are just or far more flammable than hand knitted items.


We already know the melting rate of pure acrylic and the argument HERE is that some people just don't care about it. So, I'm not sure what petitioning the manufacturers would do in the context of the specific argument that's going on here.

And OF COURSE, if your GS's ACTUALLY come out in a rash, then OF COURSE, you need to find other options. There is not one single person here that's arguing otherwise.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> I use Superwash wool for charity projects whenever I can. A few years ago, when knitting for Alaskan Eskimo children, the agency politely asked for wool, alpaca, or blends because the acrylics just "are not warm enough". They were exceedingly polite about it, and we complied. Since then, I try to think about where my knitting will end up, and attempt to buy yarn that suits it's destination. In the case of the kids who lived so far out in the wilderness that the Air National Guard air lifted our gifts and dropped them out of the plane,I was pretty sure the hats and mittens might not get washed "in the gentle cycle"!


Actually, you might be surprised as some people just don't have the money to go to or don't even have access to laundries and those items may end up washed by hand anyway.

And for me, I've washed superwash items in the regular cycle by mistake and they come out ok. It's not recommended as the items probably won't last as long, but those items often survive "rough" washing.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> I use Superwash wool for charity projects whenever I can. A few years ago, when knitting for Alaskan Eskimo children, the agency politely asked for wool, alpaca, or blends because the acrylics just "are not warm enough". They were exceedingly polite about it, and we complied. Since then, I try to think about where my knitting will end up, and attempt to buy yarn that suits it's destination. In the case of the kids who lived so far out in the wilderness that the Air National Guard air lifted our gifts and dropped them out of the plane,I was pretty sure the hats and mittens might not get washed "in the gentle cycle"!


Exactly, that's all many have been saying here. Just be thoughtful towards those you are knitting for.

Is that REALLY such an "insulting" thing to suggest?


----------



## Irene P

suzy-kate said:


> Then set fire to cotton, linen, bamboo they're all natural fibers and unless treated burn with a very hot flame, think of candle wicks. My GS's can't wear a lot of wools, they come out in a rash, so we've been trying various mixed yarns which they tolerate far better. Rather than argue with each other perhaps we should petition the manufacturers to let us know the burn/melting rates etc of their yarns. At the end of the day many bought clothing/blankets are just or far more flammable than hand knitted items.


I definitely agree. Any yarn that has given a bad experience should be reported to its manufacturer. If we don't tell them, they won't know.


----------



## dijewe

I don't get why knitters jump to the defense when this whole topic of acrylics vs wool etc comes up.......which happens to be quite often really. Are people that small minded that they get testy about facts that have been proven over and over again?
1. Wool is warmer than acrylic, even when wet. Surely if one is concerned about the warmth of less fortunate people, you consider using warm wool.
2. Wool does not melt onto the skin in the event of fire - considering that many of those who need these garments also seek warmth from open fires or electric heaters, one considers that acrylic is hazardous in this case.

What I find is regardless of how many point out that you can buy wool quite often for less than acrylic - for some reason people feel the need to jump forward to justify this preference. I don't understand why they won't even try something different. 

Then there are those who declare that they only have Walmarts to shop at. Once again, numerous tips on where to buy online have been given. If you can browse the internet, you can shop online too IMO.

I won't even get into the whole issue about what constitutes charity because I almost fell off my chair reading one asinine reply to someone who knits quality chemo hats for her patients, clearly a loving gesture to people she sees suffering almost daily. Those bitter remarks only served to point out a less charitable spirit.


----------



## Condia

Many years ago we were shopping around Christmas time and my son (aged 7 at that time and also a spinner) saw a lady with a shopping cart full of yarn. He looked at her, looked at me, then asked "why is she buying that "PRETEND" yarn" why doesn't she just go home and spin some up. Since all my children grew up in a home where we made our own soap, candles, felt, yarn, and canned they didn't know most people just don't "go home and spin some yarn up" lol. I, like you, start from the beginning and do the whole process. Just sold the last of my angora rabbits about a month ago, but still have plenty of their wool to use for myself. We were lucky too in that I raised sheep, goats, llamas, alpaca, and guanacos, angora rabbits so my supply didn't run low. Panic attacks if there is less than 50 pounds of fiber stored away, lol.



heather.kearins said:


> I certainly agree with you spinlouet. I too spin a lot for orders. I haven't bought yarn for years, but I do have my own commercial angora yarns (from my years of being in business). I certainly don't want to always use angora so when I or others need yarn for projects, I spin and dye it. I am lucky that we have our own sheep and wool as well as my angora rabbits, but I also have the opportunity to get many other fibres so my need to buy yarns are very rare.


----------



## tvarnas

Bucketknitter said:


> Yarn can be very expensive. I have decided that the hunt for bargains is going to become a fun part of the process, just like the hunt for the perfect pattern, or the neatest stitch markers, tools, and storage for everything that I have accumulated due to my knitting and crocheting addiction.
> 
> When my SO and I were on vacation in Canada, I splurged on some alpaca yarn in a small shop in Quebec City. On the way home we were going to be within about 50 miles of the big WEBS store in Northhampton, Massachusetts. We made that side trip and after drooling about all the gorgeous yarn in the front of the store, I discovered the warehouse with their close out section.
> I found some gorgeous yarns for $2.00 to $3.00 per skein with 200 to 300 yards each. I bought a lot! I smile now when I know that this great Pi shawl that I made of wonderfully soft merino wool cost me $8.00 for the approximately 800 yards that I used.
> 
> So, the bargain searches are on!!
> 
> Karen


 :thumbup: The hunt is half the fun!


----------



## tvarnas

AmyKnits said:


> I must disagree... Firstly, I knit hats for our patients who are going through chemo. I knit them with the finest yarns I can find that will be soft, warm and breathable. I include a sample of Eucalan along with washing instructions.
> 
> IF I were knitting for homeless or such more "needy" individuals, I can use superwash wools which are JUST as easy care as acrylic which does NOT provide adequate warmth. I am understanding that homeless people spend a quantity of time outdoors, so a warmer donated item makes more sense.
> 
> There are hundreds of quality yarns that are just as easy care as "cheap" yarns.
> 
> Again, the item I donate to a homeless person may be the nicest thing they own and likely all they have to give warmth and comfort. It MAY get lost, it MAY get ruined, it MAY be stolen. If I did worry about what happens to items I donate to charity, I would write a check instead.
> 
> I have no control over those things. I can control what I consider CHARITY. I would never expect anyone to wear something I wouldn't wear myself.


Amyknits I agree with you. A couple years ago my son gave out things to the homeless late at night during the holidays. I made hats and scarves from wools and blends that were washable. I scoured online sales,(that's when I found DBNY!) and Tuesday Morning. It was important to me the items would be very warm (forgot to say....Chicago) in addition to being wash/dryable. Plus I wanted the items to be special.


----------



## rohohappy

Allergies to wool or natural fibers are VERY rare. Rashes form natural fibers are just irritation on the skin because the wool may be rough. Wool and other natural fibers do have different degrees of softness depending on where it comes off of the animal from. Acrylic is not a good yarn and never will be I guess some peoples taste is all in their mouths. I hope everyone has fun with their knitting and enjoy whatever they do. Personally I enjoy knitting for others too and I only knit with natural fibers as I only buy natural fiber clothing...I do not buy anything with acrylic in. It takes a bit of hunting buy if you cant find it in the store you can find it on line. I will sign off now as all this pettiness is too much stress and it should not be this way. I guess some folks just like to pick fights. I was just making a comment on acrylic vs. natural fibers. Sorry to all if you were offended


----------



## blessedinMO

Thank you all for your comments. You have convinced me I will be doing more harm than good.


----------



## tvarnas

comebackknitter said:


> I have gotten several balls of yarn at Tuesday Morning. One for socks, which I made, and other decorative yarn, but dont know what to make with it. Never can find enough for a project other than socks.


You have to get there early! Get on their mailing list so you get the flyer BEFORE the yarn arrives. I've gotten very lucky by getting there the first morning.


----------



## tvarnas

peachy51 said:


> Please don't leave. This is a great site and there are many wonderful people here ... but we are a community and as with any community from time to time we have some drama.
> 
> There is a lot of great info given and received on a daily basis on this site. And, talking about choices, we have the choice to jump into or not jump into the drama


Very well said,I agree. Welcome Viki and please don't leave.


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## tvarnas

heather.kearins said:


> I certainly agree with you spinlouet. I too spin a lot for orders. I haven't bought yarn for years, but I do have my own commercial angora yarns (from my years of being in business). I certainly don't want to always use angora so when I or others need yarn for projects, I spin and dye it. I am lucky that we have our own sheep and wool as well as my angora rabbits, but I also have the opportunity to get many other fibres so my need to buy yarns are very rare.


OMG, I just looked closer at your avatar. ( I use a Kindle...small screen!) That bunny is huge and absolutely gorgeous! How I would love to cuddle.


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## Knitcrazydeborah

peachy51 said:


> Craftsy does have some expensive yarns, but they also have some incredible sales.
> 
> I just bought 20 balls of Crystal Palace Monaco from them for $1.37 per ball ... Jimmy Beans Wool regularly has it for $7.60 a ball and they have it on sale right now for $3.80 a ball. So I got it from Craftsy for less than half of Jimmy Beans' sale price!


Ooo lucky girl! I'm green....


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## rohohappy

I spin too and just love it. I get a cria coat every spring and process it for spinning. It makes the best yarn. As for buying yarn. I just saw on Knitpicks that if someone wants to get away from the acrylic yarn and just try wool yarns to see how wonderful the difference can be they have Wool of the Andes Superwash 100% superwash wool 110yds/50g balls for $3.49 solid color or $3.69 heathered colors.
They really are worth the try. And they can be cheaper than acrylic.


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## kwright

Angelsmom1 said:


> The Red Heart store is high then you add shipping. I found a site that carries alot of Red Heart yarns is www.cutratecrafts.com They have quite a selection.


Thank you so much , Angelsmom1. I appreciate the information.


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## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Thank you all for your comments. You have convinced me I will be doing more harm than good.


Phew. Less children and other vulnerable people at risk from serious burns!


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## blessedinMO

BluesChanteuse said:


> Phew. Less children and other vulnerable people at risk from serious burns!


Oh yes, indeed. I knew you would be relieved.


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## kwright

Someone may have mentioned, but here goes. I have knitted with Red Heart for 45 years. It is what I use. Wool makes me itch, even yarn. I've tried. Do you have any options to the 4 ply worsted weight of the Red Heart? 

I appreciate the education. I called my son, a safety engineer, who said that the plastic of the acrylic would melt and stick to the skin faster then it would burn 'fire.' Melting at a temperature that is hot enough to burn skin. Leaving some nasty burns. He did not know anything about the natural fibers.


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## kwright

What is superwash?


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## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Oh yes, indeed. I knew you would be relieved.


It's the needy who should be quite relieved. One less person putting them at risk unnecessarily.


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## damemary

There are very, very fine yarns available for much less. I always look at the price per yard too. Too crazy for me....even if I had billions....and I LOVE yarn. I haven't lost all of my mind yet.



pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


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## suzy-kate

OK so we know 100% acrylic will melt and 100% wool is hard to even set fire to but what about the blends? Do we know or just assume that if it's got wool in it it's ok? And does the spining/manufacturing process have any affect? 

I've a cone of a modacrylic, acrylic, cotton blend, that's used for making airline blankets, it's marked flame resistant. But the details are only marked on it because it was being sold to industry not the general public.


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## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> OK so we know 100% acrylic will melt and 100% wool is hard to even set fire to but what about the blends? Do we know or just assume that if it's got wool in it it's ok? And does the spining/manufacturing process have any affect?
> 
> I've a cone of a modacrylic, acrylic, cotton blend, that's used for making airline blankets, it's marked flame resistant. But the details are only marked on it because it was being sold to industry not the general public.


Well, intuitively, if there's an acrylic blend, there'd be less acrylic to melt into the skin, but it will still melt. Which, to me means, there's more risk of SERIOUS burn with it than without it.

It's a matter of asking if you're willing to risk a LOT of plastic melting into skin or less plastic melting into skin.

Still an unnecessary risk, IMO. At least for people who are more at risk at being caught in fire.


----------



## kwright

I wrote a post to Red Heart on their company website asking about alternatives to the acrylic and their suggestions for a natural fiber alternative to the 4 ply worsted weight. I have not knowledge about the other yarn as Red Heart Super Saver is basically all I have ever used. 

My claim to fame is house shoes that I knit for cancer patients or people who are sick. I don't knit hats or mittens. My sole knowledge about the yarn is the acrylic. I understand your concerns. The people I make house shoes for are unlikely to come in contact with an open flame. 

I will take it in to consideration the next time I purchase yarn. Do you have a recommendation for the 4 ply worsted weight of the Red Heart Super Saver?


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## rohohappy

rugs


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## Rosenz

Here in New Zealand, the land of sheep and wool it is very expensive. Sometimes I find it cheaper to shop online and buy overseas which is probably made from New Zealand wool anyway. All cotton yarn is imported as we can't grow cotton here.


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## Irene P

tvarnas said:


> :thumbup: The hunt is half the fun!


I agree! "Hunting prices" is a good and positive challenge. Just think of the number of coupons that help reduce the costs and allow you to buy more (than you need - OH! All of those future projects!).


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## katyboom

BluesChanteuse said:


> \
> 
> You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.
> 
> It's not about what someone personally chooses.
> 
> The argument is about charity knitting and that acrylic yarn
> 
> 1) isn't warm
> 2) is dangerous.
> 
> Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.
> 
> But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.
> 
> If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.


OMG.... Really???!!!!!

IMHO. 
1/. An acrylic knitted hat is so much warmer than a bare head or hands.

2/. If said head/hands is/are soooooo close to a fire that the acrylic (warmer than bare head/hands) hat/mittens is going to cause harm to the one wearing said hat/mittens then the fibre contained in said hat/mittens is NOT the issue.

Again IMHO a homeless person may be very happy with hat/mittens period that the could care less about what the yarn content is. They have covering for a cold head or cold hands. That is what matters ladies and gentlemen. Not the fibre content of the yarn used.

I didn't believe there was such a thing as yarn snobs. But I know now.


----------



## Irene P

katyboom said:


> OMG.... Really???!!!!!
> 
> IMHO.
> 1/. An acrylic knitted hat is so much warmer than a bare head or hands.
> 
> 2/. If said head/hands is/are soooooo close to a fire that the acrylic (warmer than bare head/hands) hat/mittens is going to cause harm to the one wearing said hat/mittens then the fibre contained in said hat/mittens is NOT the issue.
> 
> Again IMHO a homeless person may be very happy with hat/mittens period that the could care less about what the yarn content is. They have covering for a cold head or cold hands. That is what matters ladies and gentlemen. Not the fibre content of the yarn used.
> 
> I didn't believe there was such a thing as yarn snobs. But I know now.


PLEASE! Let's not be picky! Everyone does things they are comfortable with and using what they can afford. Let's not discourage anyone from what they do with what they use.


----------



## rohohappy

Read the statistics on acrylic. It does not breath, which makes the person sweat, and not evaporate that sweat because acrylic does not breath. Getting close to a fire is the only way some homeless people can get warm and if you can live with someone getting burned and having that acrylic melt to them then go for it. I for one could not live with myself if I were to cause harm to another human being.


----------



## knitnut86

vjh1530 said:


> This will probably finish off what little "friendship" you and I had left, but I am tired of comments like, If it was made in decent yarn it would have been breathtaking, or something to that effect. Wow, do you have any idea what a nasty comment that is to the people here who post photos of their work? And you became judge and jury - when? I must have missed that day. There are plenty of us here who probably don't always agree with the yarn choices you have made for some of the projects you have posted, but how would you feel is someone said something like that to you after all your hard work?
> 
> Yes, you do look at charity very differently than most, and I say, Thank God most people have a better understanding of what it really means to be in need. And what does "steak isn't the most nutritious meal" have to do about anything? Did you entirely miss what she was saying?
> 
> No where did I see her say she was going to have a steak for herself on the way home. You knit for your doctor's patients because you WANT to, not because they NEED it. Ask yourself, do you use great yarns because THEY need it or because they will tell you how wonderful you are to make such a pretty, fancy hat for them. That is NOT charity knitting. That is gift-giving. They are not living on street corners, or homeless shelters, or tiny apartments without hot water and housing 4 families. You have obviously not spent much time with a real homeless person. They don't even wipe themselves after they poop, because toilet paper is a luxury they can't afford. If you don't believe me, get close to one and the smell will convince you. They don't wash anything properly, much less a wool hat made from fancy yarn. The best that happens is the homeless shelter where they stop in for a meal once a month told them they have to shower to get a meal, and while they are in the shower their clothes are tossed into the shelter's washer with hot water, then into a hot dryer. So goodbye fancy hat.
> 
> That is the most hard-core example of homeless. There are many levels and I think most people here who really knit for charity have that figured out. The people in need may all have different needs, but none of them need "fancy" as much as they need function. A cheap skein of washable wool yarn makes one baby sweater for maybe $10. A simple acrylic yarn like Pound of Love by Lion Brand is durable and soft for that same amount of money or less. It will make 4 sweaters of the same yardage. So go ahead - tell that one mother that her baby will be getting a really nice sweater, then you can tell the other 3 mothers that are standing there, sorry, your baby doesn't get a sweater because I wanted that one to be the best quality. So now you have one warm baby in a fancy sweater and three cold babies with nothing.
> 
> Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me.
> 
> Most charity knitters I know are not rich, nor do they have bottomless budgets, so the amount of money they can spend on the yarn they use for their donations is not real big. When that yarn is gone, there are no more knitting donations until they can afford to buy more. They wouldn't be going home with their bellies full of steak, they would be going home hungry, or with just a burger for themselves as well.
> 
> Where are all the photos of these chemo hats you make for people who enjoy them but don't have to go around bald if they don't have one; I'd love to see them all. I see the pictures of sweaters, shawls, and socks you make for gifts and for yourself, though. So before you get on your high horse and put down the people who are actually doing the work using the yarn that they can afford, and allows them to make as many items to help as many people as possible for that budget, find out what REAL charity knitting is really about. Those wonderful people like Donnie K don't knit for fancy, they knit for others - from their hearts. And the people who are lucky enough to get something knitted by them know they just got something special.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## mwatpon

Great response.



peachy51 said:


> I have watched this thread for 16 pages in utter amazement at all the drama ... drama over what kind of yarn an individual chooses to use in their knitting ... yarn that is purely an individual choice.
> 
> I honestly can't believe the personal attacks because someone doesn't use or does use a yarn another person doesn't think is suitable.
> 
> I use whatever pleases me for the project and person I am knitting the item for. I have some quite expensive, luscious wool and alpaca yarn and I have some lower priced acrylic. In my opinion, they all have their place. For example, I just used a good bit of Red Heart (which I normally never buy because I hate it and the feel of it), but it was the perfect choice for the Christmas Stockings I just made.
> 
> As far as the safety issue ... OMG ... how many of you use a sugar substitute? Totally unsafe. How many of you have a gas range? Children can turn them on and gas everyone in the house, not to mention the open flame as a fire hazard. Do you have a swimming pool ... how many children drown every year in back yard pools. And if you really want to talk safety, then you certainly don't want to EVER take your vehicle out of your garage. I would venture to say that more children are injured, maimed and killed every year in vehicle accidents than are injured by acrylic yarn in several decades.
> 
> I'm certain that with EVERY food item and every product on the market, someone, somewhere has been injured by that food or product. Personally, I have never known or heard of anyone being injured by acrylic yarn (until I heard about Courier's brother-in-law and my heart goes out to them).
> 
> As far as charity is concerned, there are many charity organizations and hospitals that require knitted items to be acrylic yarn. And then there is the issue of people who have wool allergies.
> 
> As far as the warmth issue and those saying that acrylic does not provide any warmth, I beg to differ with you. Where I live it doesn't get nearly as cold as where some of you live, but usually in the winter a long sleeve sweater is all we need. Most of the time, if I were to wear wool I would burn up. That's not saying I don't wear my fetish collection of cashmere sweaters because I do on those rare days that we do have some real cold. But most of the time, the acrylic sweaters I have fit the bill perfectly ... and they are warm.
> 
> But the bottom line here is that every individual who knits has the right to choose the yarn he or she wishes to knit with. Heaven help us if the Government starts telling us what we can knit with ... they already infringe upon our choices way too much.
> 
> And for any person to personally attack another person for their yarn choices is just down right nasty and spiteful.
> 
> We should never judge another person until we have walked in their shoes. We need to be on this site to learn and share and not to berate other members for their choices.


----------



## mwatpon

You really are being a bit dramatic like AmyKnits.



BluesChanteuse said:


> Agreed. As I said before, (and damn it, I can't seem to find the article on google but I remember the story pretty clearly)...
> 
> There was a city that required that charity knitting be of natural fibers only, and that very year, the occurrence of frostbite in emergency rooms were cut in half.
> 
> These effects are very real.
> 
> I think some people, who can only see the world through their own lens, keep coming up with anecdotes about how "their family" has done fine with acrylics.
> 
> Well, fine, but then again, unless your family is homeless and trying to keep warm by rickety heaters and bon fires or have to sleep at night in literally freezing weather, then what your family goes through is NOT an applicable anecdote.
> 
> Of course, although the risk is less, ANYONE can get caught in a fire, and I don't know about you, but if my kids/grandkids were wearing something acrylic I'd knitted them and either died or severely scarred because of it, I don't know if I could ever forgive myself.
> 
> So, I don't "choose" to take that risk.
> 
> But quite literally, a homeless person trying to sleep in freezing temperatures would be better off going through the garbage and finding someone's old cotton underwear to wrap around their hands/feet than wearing acrylic gloves socks.


----------



## mwatpon

And I disagree.

I disagree with the nasty way that she responds.



tvarnas said:


> Amyknits I agree with you. A couple years ago my son gave out things to the homeless late at night during the holidays. I made hats and scarves from wools and blends that were washable. I scoured online sales,(that's when I found DBNY!) and Tuesday Morning. It was important to me the items would be very warm (forgot to say....Chicago) in addition to being wash/dryable. Plus I wanted the items to be special.


----------



## mwatpon

Yes, this is a great response.



mwatpon said:


> Great response.


----------



## mwatpon

I agree.



katyboom said:


> OMG.... Really???!!!!!
> 
> IMHO.
> 1/. An acrylic knitted hat is so much warmer than a bare head or hands.
> 
> 2/. If said head/hands is/are soooooo close to a fire that the acrylic (warmer than bare head/hands) hat/mittens is going to cause harm to the one wearing said hat/mittens then the fibre contained in said hat/mittens is NOT the issue.
> 
> Again IMHO a homeless person may be very happy with hat/mittens period that the could care less about what the yarn content is. They have covering for a cold head or cold hands. That is what matters ladies and gentlemen. Not the fibre content of the yarn used.
> 
> I didn't believe there was such a thing as yarn snobs. But I know now.


----------



## threekidsmom

vikicooks said:


> My goodness! I am glad that I don't knit for charity-I could not handle the responsibility.


No kidding! I'm glad I don't, either! My kids are happy with the stuff I make, whatever I make it from! I made fisherman knit crocheted afghans many years ago from Red Heart Aran color yarn. I made one for each of my 3 sisters, and myself. My mom asked me to make her one, too. I thought they were beautiful, and I was proud of them. My sisters all cherished them, as did my mom. Two of my sisters (all that remain) still cherish their cheap assed yarn afghans, and I still have the one I made for my mother, who died almost 14 years ago. They are warm, and still beautiful and wash wonderfully without having to be blocked, and they always retain their shape! nuff said!


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## courier770

I make yarn purchases based on the safety of the item...no acrylics for children or babies as it's too dangerous. I also won't use bamboo yarns because of the amount of "caustic chemicals" that are used to process it from raw fiber into yarn....I'm an environmentalist. We all make choices that are important and dear to us.

I won't purchase yarn that is produced in countries where child or forced/slave labor is utilized in their textile industry. While I love a good deal on yarn...it won't come on the backs of children or forced/slave labor.

I realize that these things are NOT important to others but they are important to me and please let me explain.

As a young child I got a quick lesson in the work/death camps of Nazi Germany. I grew up on Long Island and many of my friends parents had tattoo's on their arms. I didn't understand why these numbers were on the arms of my friends parents..until I learned of the "death camps" these people survived (against all odds). In essence they were slave labor and I'll never, ever support slave labor or child labor.

As a child I had a very pronounced speech impediment...another classmate of mine was in the same therapy group as I was...and one day I spotted the telltale tattoo on his mothers arm...I knew what that tattoo meant. It meant his mother was a death camp survivor. Her son Cliff stood up for me when I was just a little girl with a horrid problem...no one stood up for his mother..she simply survived but managed to teach her little boy to stand up for others.

I'm now approaching my 60th year of life and I'll never forget my classmate Cliff. He stood up for me, when no one else would...Bravo Cliff and thank you!

If you think that yarn should be priced lower, you need to take up spinning to understand how labor intensive producing yarn is.

From the back of the animal to your knitting needles is a very labor intensive process that involves intensive labor. From the sheep/alpaca/etc. herder to your needles involves the labor of many people...all who need to be paid for the work they do.


----------



## katyboom

BluesChanteuse said:


> I think some people, who can only see the world through their own lens,
> 
> So, I don't "choose" to take that risk.
> 
> But quite literally, a homeless person trying to sleep in freezing temperatures would be better off going through the garbage and finding someone's old cotton underwear to wrap around their hands/feet than wearing acrylic gloves socks.


Perhaps some here should adjust their own lens......

Again the point is "choice"

From the news stories and pics shown on the news it seems that homeless people trying to sleep in freezing temperatures could give rat's patoot if the hat he/she was wearing was acrylic, alpaca, wool or emu.

The fact that someone cared enough to take the time to knit, crochet something to be given to them would probably be in their thoughts not "oh just look at this beautiful super wash wool hat I have. Now I don't have to worry about it melting on my head... If I get too close to he drum fire".

Really? Honestly. Really?

If someone wants to knit things from whatever yarn they wish. 
It is THEIR CHOICE.

So all the snarky backhand things that are being said are truly discouraging.

Fellow knitters come here for advice , encouragement ideas and such. Not to be attacked because they have a different view on things.


----------



## Designer1234

AmyKnits said:


> I must disagree... Firstly, I knit hats for our patients who are going through chemo. I knit them with the finest yarns I can find that will be soft, warm and breathable. I include a sample of Eucalan along with washing instructions.
> 
> IF I were knitting for homeless or such more "needy" individuals, I can use superwash wools which are JUST as easy care as acrylic which does NOT provide adequate warmth. I am understanding that homeless people spend a quantity of time outdoors, so a warmer donated item makes more sense. I have stated on other discussions like this to those who say acrylic yarn is not warm, I live in a cold climate and have been knitting winter wear for years and years- the work is warm - and wears well and is long lasting.
> 
> There are hundreds of quality yarns that are just as easy care as "cheap" yarns.
> 
> Again, the item I donate to a homeless person may be the nicest thing they own and likely all they have to give warmth and comfort. It MAY get lost, it MAY get ruined, it MAY be stolen. If I did worry about what happens to items I donate to charity, I would write a check instead.
> 
> I have no control over those things. I can control what I consider CHARITY. I would never expect anyone to wear something I wouldn't wear myself.


I think there are a lot of us who, even though we can possibly afford expensive, 'fine' 'wonderful' yarn, we are a lot more realistic about using yarn that will be able to resist heavy wear, and can be washed. especially for charity objects. It is not meant as a put down for those who need it -- it is just a practical way of giving people something that will last.

I see things made with what you consider ' cheaper 'yarn that are absolutely outstanding on KP - I never look at the fact they used a cheap or expensive yarn. It is not wasted workmanship if the person who makes it gets pleasure and the person who receives it realizes the love that is included in the knitting. Many of us don't even think about how much better it would be in an expensive yarn. Certainly I don't. I have used both and I really enjoy knitting with less expensive yarns if it is the right pattern, just as much as the pricy yarn My money can be well used for other things - this is just my opinion.

You say you don't worry whether it shrinks or is not useful for the person who receives it -- that is where you and I differ. I prefer to give pretty (often beautiful) \projects which will last, and be useful for a long time (those that can be washed and still look like new - rather than something that can only be worn once or twice or will shrink or show wear. jmo.


----------



## knitnut86

well said!!


Designer1234 said:


> I think there are a lot of us who, even though we can possibly afford expensive, 'fine' 'wonderful' yarn, we are a lot more realistic about using yarn that will be able to resist heavy wear, and can be washed. especially for charity objects. It is not meant as a put down for those who need it -- it is just a practical way of giving people something that will last.
> 
> I see things made with what you consider ' cheaper 'yarn that are absolutely outstanding on KP - I never look at the fact they used a cheap or expensive yarn. It is not wasted workmanship if the person who makes it gets pleasure and the person who receives it realizes the love that is included in the knitting. Many of us don't even think about how much better it would be in an expensive yarn. Certainly I don't. I have used both and I really enjoy knitting with less expensive yarns if it is the right pattern, just as much as the pricy yarn My money can be well used for other things - this is just my opinion.
> 
> You say you don't worry whether it shrinks or is not useful for the person who receives it -- that is where you and I differ. I prefer to give pretty (often beautiful) \projects which will last, and be useful for a long time (those that can be washed and still look like new - rather than something that can only be worn once or twice or will shrink or show wear. jmo.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

rohohappy said:


> Read the statistics on acrylic. It does not breath, which makes the person sweat, and not evaporate that sweat because acrylic does not breath. Getting close to a fire is the only way some homeless people can get warm and if you can live with someone getting burned and having that acrylic melt to them then go for it. I for one could not live with myself if I were to cause harm to another human being.


I have been knitting for 50 years and have never heard of anyone catching fire because of the yarn. If they are in a fire anything and everything they wear will be burning. Wool catches fire too.


----------



## Designer1234

mwatpon said:


> You really are being a bit dramatic like AmyKnits.


I was going to add to this but I have lost track. don't like the way they only quote the last post rather than the original post so you can lose track of what is being said.


----------



## Designer1234

I think it is a matter of each of us doing our own thing without judging other peoples way of doing their own thing. 

Personally I think that it is better to give something that is wearable, washable and usable than something that is impractical and beautiful until it is necessary to wash it. 

It is just a difference in outlook. It is a shame however for one person to post as if her way is the only right way. I think that is what this whole thread is about. different opinions and different ideas of what knitting for those in need means. I just find those who say 'I am right and everyone else is wrong gets my back up and others too. the more you argue the more they dig their heels in. 

best to let them have their opinion -- but it would be much nicer if they gave an inch instead of being so uninterested in reading other opinions. just my opinion and I don't plan on posting any more on this thread as it all has been said, including my thoughts on the subject. I do know that some minds will never be changed and other opinions will never be considered. sad though.


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Well, intuitively, if there's an acrylic blend, there'd be less acrylic to melt into the skin, but it will still melt. Which, to me means, there's more risk of SERIOUS burn with it than without it.
> 
> It's a matter of asking if you're willing to risk a LOT of plastic melting into skin or less plastic melting into skin.
> 
> Still an unnecessary risk, IMO. At least for people who are more at risk at being caught in fire.


---
Once again, I have never heard of an acrylic knitted article caused any more burns than other yarns. so I have a problem with the above post which to me scares people unnecessarily.


----------



## Rosette

America sounds like such a dangerous place. Next time I visit my friends there I will take great care not to pack anything acrylic in case I get burned! Seriously people - how many Americans were burned though wearing garments made from acrylic yarn and how many died from being shot by their fellow Americans? You want to ban charity items made from acrylic yarn but you don't want to ban guns! Can we please keep this yarn discussion in perspective. Happy knitting


----------



## AmyKnits

Designer1234 said:


> I think there are a lot of us who, even though we can possibly afford expensive, 'fine' 'wonderful' yarn, we are a lot more realistic about using yarn that will be able to resist heavy wear, and can be washed. especially for charity objects. It is not meant as a put down for those who need it -- it is just a practical way of giving people something that will last.
> 
> I see things made with what you consider ' cheaper 'yarn that are absolutely outstanding on KP - I never look at the fact they used a cheap or expensive yarn. It is not wasted workmanship if the person who makes it gets pleasure and the person who receives it realizes the love that is included in the knitting. Many of us don't even think about how much better it would be in an expensive yarn. Certainly I don't. I have used both and I really enjoy knitting with less expensive yarns if it is the right pattern, just as much as the pricy yarn My money can be well used for other things - this is just my opinion.
> 
> You say you don't worry whether it shrinks or is not useful for the person who receives it -- that is where you and I differ. I prefer to give pretty (often beautiful) \projects which will last, and be useful for a long time (those that can be washed and still look like new - rather than something that can only be worn once or twice or will shrink or show wear. jmo.


Wow! I clicked off this topic DAYS ago. Someone sent me a PM saying that I am being quoted and no one noticed I have been gone for days?!?!? WOW!

There seems to be some confusion.... I stated that I hear comments every day from knitters who say that they buy expensive yarn for themselves and use cheaper yarn for charity knitting. If you have been here longer than a few days, you will hear the same comment.

I said that I am well aware I think differently than most, but I prefer to knit with the finer yarns for my chemo hats and use the less expensive yarn for myself. I would like these ladies to have something BETTER than I have because I want them to feel pretty through their fight. I include washing instruction and packetts of Eucalan with each hat.

I also mentioned that I choose to knit with superwash wools for the mission hats I knit. It is a fact that wool is warmer than many other fibers including cotton and acrylic, bamboo and soy to name a few and JUST as easy to care for if not EASIER. I know alpaca is even warmer than wool, but choose NOT to use Alpaca for donated items for many reasons.. One being that it is likely to felt.

I live outside Buffalo and what they say IS true... FEET of snow and below freezing temps. Hats and mittens for the city mission NEED to be warm to prevent frostbite. I CHOOSE to use wool. I no longer use acrylic fibers... That is also my choice.

There is nothing offensive in either of these statements. It's my choice and I shared my choice...

Nowhere did I say or imply that anyone else needs to make the same choices as I do....(OBVIOUSLY!!!!!!! .. I SAID I AM in the minority, so that would say that I do NOT EXPECT others to make the same choices I have/do!!!!!) It is impossible to force anyone to knit with anything other than what they choose to and quite frankly, it's not my business what YOU knit with. I can't control that.... And don't want to.

Every time we have these heated yarn arguments people get upset and if I live to be 150 years old I will NEVER understand this OR be upset over anyone else's choice.

We are all free to make what ever choice we want. I simply shared MY OWN personal choice and added REASONS why I make those choices.

As I said... I am not the least bit offended if you don't agree... So much so that I have unwatched this thread.

I don't need to JUSTIFY my yarn and spending choices to anyone. Especially not complete strangers on the Internet.

I am simply sharing MY point of view and reasons for making the choices I do. You are free to disagree and debate and learn from each other... That is the reason we are all here.

Knit with what YOU want and let ME knit with what I want.

Perhaps some of you who are still debating this after how many pages now should consider WHY you are still upset.... (It appears upset with ME). I am not upset and have not participated in several days... Instead I spent my time knitting this sweater that I am very proud of! Maybe knitting would help a few of you others to relax and move on... Life is short!


----------



## knittinz

My Uncle Bob would have called this a S**t flinging contest. Sometimes it's not what you say it's how you say it. People are forgetting their manners and not treating others with respect. The original post was about the price of some yarns, how it turned into this mess is amazing.


----------



## Frogsong

Well, I'm on disability and I can't afford the high quality natural fiber yarns. I get yarn where I can for as little as possible. So I guess I won't be knitting for charity since it's not good enough. You can tell the poor people who would love those acrylic items, because it's better than nothing, why they can't have it.

Must be nice to be rich and arrogant.


----------



## knitnut86

My sentiments exactly!!



Rosette said:


> America sounds like such a dangerous place. Next time I visit my friends there I will take great care not to pack anything acrylic in case I get burned! Seriously people - how many Americans were burned though wearing garments made from acrylic yarn and how many died from being shot by their fellow Americans? You want to ban charity items made from acrylic yarn but you don't want to ban guns! Can we please keep this yarn discussion in perspective. Happy knitting


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## gypsie

I've been reading this and I'm chuckling to myself. Those who don't use acrylic for their own personal various reasons, such as not breathing... I can't help but wonder what their panties are made of or if they wear tights, stockings, or pantie hose. Have they never purchased any ready made clothes and if so did they make sure they were natural fibers. What about their shoes,,,,no man made fibers in those to prevent their feet from breathing? As for prices of yarn and refusing to purchase things made from "slave labor" or whatever it was called,,,,can't help but wonder if those people are wearing diamonds? Did they make sure their diamond did not come from slave labor? No one was killed in the process of mining that diamond? What about the tires on their vehicles? The wiring in their homes? The insulation in their walls and attics? This entire thread is bull shit! You hens have made your point and should stop. Agree to disagree, one will only use natural fibers, another cannot afford it, just agree to disagree and shutup!


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## mwatpon

AmyKnits,

I don't believe for a minute that you really clicked off of this. I think you were feeling the consequences of how badly you talk to people on here.

Yes, we all know when you're not on because there is no instigation going on. You incite people to argue.

You cause people to argue. You are the start of all the arguments on here.

So why don't you stop being condescending and rude and belittling to others. You have things to offer to this forum.

You just need to word your comments nicely.

Take a class in communication if necessary but do something.

We are all tired of your nastiness.



AmyKnits said:


> Wow! I clicked off this topic DAYS ago. Someone sent me a PM saying that I am being quoted and no one noticed I have been gone for days?!?!? WOW!
> 
> There seems to be some confusion.... I stated that I hear comments every day from knitters who say that they buy expensive yarn for themselves and use cheaper yarn for charity knitting. If you have been here longer than a few days, you will hear the same comment.
> 
> I said that I am well aware I think differently than most, but I prefer to knit with the finer yarns for my chemo hats and use the less expensive yarn for myself. I would like these ladies to have something BETTER than I have because I want them to feel pretty through their fight. I include washing instruction and packetts of Eucalan with each hat.
> 
> I also mentioned that I choose to knit with superwash wools for the mission hats I knit. It is a fact that wool is warmer than many other fibers including cotton and acrylic, bamboo and soy to name a few and JUST as easy to care for if not EASIER. I know alpaca is even warmer than wool, but choose NOT to use Alpaca for donated items for many reasons.. One being that it is likely to felt.
> 
> There is nothing offensive in either of these statements. It's my choice and I shared my choice...
> 
> Nowhere did I say or imply that anyone else needs to make the same choices as I do....(ONVIOUSLY... I SAID I AM in the minority, so that would say that I do NOT EXPECT others to make the same choices I have/do!!!!!) It is impossible to force anyone to knit with anything other than what they choose to and quite frankly, it's not my business what YOU knit with. I can't control that.... And don't want to.
> 
> Every time we have these heated yarn arguments people get upset and if I live to be 150 years old I will NEVER understand this OR be upset over anyone else's choice.
> 
> We are all free to make what ever choice we want. I simply shared MY OWN personal choice and added REASONS why I make those choices.
> 
> As I said... I am not the least bit offended if you don't agree... So much so that I have unwatched this thread.
> 
> I don't need to JUSTIFY my yarn and spending choices to anyone. Especially not complete strangers on the Internet.
> 
> I am simply sharing MY point of view and reasons for making the choices I do. You are free to disagree and debate and learn from each other... That is the reason we are all here.
> 
> Knit with what YOU want and let ME knit with what I want.
> 
> Perhaps some of you who are still debating this after how many pages now should consider WHY you are still upset.... (It appears upset with ME). I am not upset and have not participated in several days... Instead I spent my time knitting this sweater that I am very proud of! Maybe knitting would help a few of you others to relax and move on... Life is short!


----------



## mopgenorth

Rosette said:


> America sounds like such a dangerous place. Next time I visit my friends there I will take great care not to pack anything acrylic in case I get burned! Seriously people - how many Americans were burned though wearing garments made from acrylic yarn and how many died from being shot by their fellow Americans? You want to ban charity items made from acrylic yarn but you don't want to ban guns! Can we please keep this yarn discussion in perspective. Happy knitting


I find it interesting that the person who speaks loudest against acrylic bragged about sending her son off to college with a blanket/afghan she knit for him using 6 POUNDS of ACRYLIC YARN.

Then recently, for some odd reason that escapes me, she posted this on a KNITTING thread (not political, chitchat, or otherwise) :

"Funny story.... My daughter was home from school on Monday (eye thing) so she rode with me to the gun center to buy my new "carry pistol". We then rode downtown to register the gun and then back to the gun center to pick up the pistol. (That is how it is done in NYS). My daughter told one of her friends how she spent her afternoon and her friend exclaimed "Your MOM carries a gun?!?!" Daughter said yes... She carries it with her at all times. When I saw the friend the next day I said "I betcha you didn't realize that this Mom is a tough, pistol packin mama!"

What seems crazier and more dangerous to you - knitting with and sharing items made of synthetic materials or bragging to teenagers that you own and carry a concealed weapon?


----------



## saarlt

Rosette said:


> America sounds like such a dangerous place. Next time I visit my friends there I will take great care not to pack anything acrylic in case I get burned! Seriously people - how many Americans were burned though wearing garments made from acrylic yarn and how many died from being shot by their fellow Americans? You want to ban charity items made from acrylic yarn but you don't want to ban guns! Can we please keep this yarn discussion in perspective. Happy knitting


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## mmorris

I was in an upscale knit shop last summer and picked out some yarn that was $125.00 (one skein).


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## peachy51

knittinz said:


> My Uncle Bob would have called this a S**t flinging contest. Sometimes it's not what you say it's how you say it. People are forgetting their manners and not treating others with respect. The original post was about the price of some yarns, how it turned into this mess is amazing.


I had to chuckle when I read this as your Uncle Bob and my Mom would have gotten along well ... she used to say "The more you stir sh!t, the more it stinks!"  And we've had more than 20 pages of stirring on this thread so far.


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## gypsie

peachy51 said:


> I had to chuckle when I read this as your Uncle Bob and my Mom would have gotten along well ... she used to say "The more you stir sh!t, the more it stinks!"  And we've had more than 20 pages of stirring on this thread so far.


Well said!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## jmewin

Fortunately, there is plenty of high quality yarn that won't bankrupt you.


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## courier770

You can do a little experiment on your own to see how wool burns vs how acrylic yarn "combusts". Acrylic when set on fire supports burning and turns into a molten mass t hat welds itself into the flesh of the wearer. This actually compounds the burns. 

Many times I have spoken of my recently late brother in law Matt. Matt was severely burned over 35 years ago when his synthetic shirt caught fire and became a "molten" blob under his left arm and across his chest. A natural fiber would not have done this. Matt underwent a painful process to have this molten "blob" cut from his body and skin grafts. he spent many months in a burn unit. Matt died the weekend of July 4th, 2013. He grew used to a tightening feeling in his chest over the past 35+ years and had no clue that he had developed fatal lung cancer...he was so used to the pain that those long ago burns caused him. 

The homeless are more likely to hover around a fire than people with homes and they are also more likely to be burned. The homeless do NOT have access to washing machines and dryers, most of their clothing is simply washed out in basins of gas station rest rooms than thrown into a washer or dryer. Face it when you are homeless who has cash for a $2.00 load of laundry. Our homeless live on the streets, they deserve the warmest fibers possible.

Acrylic yarns provide little if any protection against the cold of winter..in fact acrylic can be downright dangerous for them. Yes it is cheap..but you get what you pay for. If y ou really care about the homeless, invest in fibers hat will truly protect them from the elements...which may cost you more...but if you really care and want to help, the added cost is not t hat great. 

Quit telling homeless people that they don't deserve truly warm fibers!


----------



## ladysjk

I have ignored you and ignored you...I no longer can.

I support your right to do as you chose and to use what you use and to make your voice heard on what YOU think .

I do NOT support your horror stories! There is no picture of me on this sight and never will be! Wanna know why...I have scars on my right face,neck and shoulder!! From what....pulling a drunk friend out of a bonfire when I was a teenager....was I drunk no...she fell into the fire and I went in to pull her out...how dare you. I went through hell for that, and bottled myself away, and considered myself a monster...I am now 58 years old, and have donated my life to helping others, and someone decided that horror is the best lesson for others....YOU are a sad, miserable unhappy woman, bitter, hurtful, angry, ....try to justify to yourself how your words have hurt someone else!!! Wake up and smell the roses, before your own spirit rots, like a cancer!

Would I change what I did that day??? Hell no! The fabric I had on that day...cotton 100% pure cotton..did my clothes melt, no they burned INTO my skin...

I will go back to ignoring you, but will ask that the power that is, lets your black heart heal...and I forgive you for your ignorance!



courier770 said:


> You can do a little experiment on your own to see how wool burns vs how acrylic yarn "combusts". Acrylic when set on fire supports burning and turns into a molten mass t hat welds itself into the flesh of the wearer. This actually compounds the burns.
> 
> Many times I have spoken of my recently late brother in law Matt. Matt was severely burned over 35 years ago when his synthetic shirt caught fire and became a "molten" blob under his left arm and across his chest. A natural fiber would not have done this. Matt underwent a painful process to have this molten "blob" cut from his body and skin grafts. he spent many months in a burn unit. Matt died the weekend of July 4th, 2013. He grew used to a tightening feeling in his chest over the past 35+ years and had no clue that he had developed fatal lung cancer...he was so used to the pain that those long ago burns caused him.
> 
> The homeless are more likely to hover around a fire than people with homes and they are also more likely to be burned. The homeless do NOT have access to washing machines and dryers, most of their clothing is simply washed out in basins of gas station rest rooms than thrown into a washer or dryer. Face it when you are homeless who has cash for a $2.00 load of laundry. Our homeless live on the streets, they deserve the warmest fibers possible.
> 
> Acrylic yarns provide little if any protection against the cold of winter..in fact acrylic can be downright dangerous for them. Yes it is cheap..but you get what you pay for. If y ou really care about the homeless, invest in fibers hat will truly protect them from the elements...which may cost you more...but if you really care and want to help, the added cost is not t hat great.
> 
> Quit telling homeless people that they don't deserve truly warm fibers!


----------



## FLStephanie

I just need to stick with less expensive yarns JoAnne - preferably using coupons. Love the LYS but mostly they're out of my price comort range.


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## FLStephanie

I just need to stick with less expensive yarns JoAnne - preferably using coupons. Love the LYS but mostly they're out of my price comort range.


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## ladysjk

After thought I am not reading any more of this crap, enough is enough..and baby this is enough!


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## gypsie

ladysjk said:


> I have ignored you and ignored you...I no longer can.
> 
> I support your right to do as you chose and to use what you use and to make your voice heard on what YOU think .
> 
> I do NOT support your horror stories! There is no picture of me on this sight and never will be! Wanna know why...I have scars on my right face,neck and shoulder!! From what....pulling a drunk friend out of a bonfire when I was a teenager....was I drunk no...she fell into the fire and I went in to pull her out...how dare you. I went through hell for that, and bottled myself away, and considered myself a monster...I am now 58 years old, and have donated my life to helping others, and someone decided that horror is the best lesson for others....YOU are a sad, miserable unhappy woman, bitter, hurtful, angry, ....try to justify to yourself how your words have hurt someone else!!! Wake up and smell the roses, before your own spirit rots, like a cancer!
> 
> Would I change what I did that day??? Hell no! The fabric I had on that day...cotton 100% pure cotton..did my clothes melt, no they burned INTO my skin...
> 
> I will go back to ignoring you, but will ask that the power that is, lets your black heart heal...and I forgive you for your ignorance!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## peachy51

ladysjk said:


> I have ignored you and ignored you...I no longer can.
> 
> I support your right to do as you chose and to use what you use and to make your voice heard on what YOU think .
> 
> I do NOT support your horror stories! There is no picture of me on this sight and never will be! Wanna know why...I have scars on my right face,neck and shoulder!! From what....pulling a drunk friend out of a bonfire when I was a teenager....was I drunk no...she fell into the fire and I went in to pull her out...how dare you. I went through hell for that, and bottled myself away, and considered myself a monster...I am now 58 years old, and have donated my life to helping others, and someone decided that horror is the best lesson for others....YOU are a sad, miserable unhappy woman, bitter, hurtful, angry, ....try to justify to yourself how your words have hurt someone else!!! Wake up and smell the roses, before your own spirit rots, like a cancer!
> 
> Would I change what I did that day??? Hell no! The fabric I had on that day...cotton 100% pure cotton..did my clothes melt, no they burned INTO my skin...
> 
> I will go back to ignoring you, but will ask that the power that is, lets your black heart heal...and I forgive you for your ignorance!


What a wonderful, unselfish act you did for your friend! I'm certain you will be grandly rewarded for that and for the burden of the scars you have carried with you since. God bless.


----------



## blessedinMO

Frogsong said:


> Well, I'm on disability and I can't afford the high quality natural fiber yarns. I get yarn where I can for as little as possible. So I guess I won't be knitting for charity since it's not good enough. You can tell the poor people who would love those acrylic items, because it's better than nothing, why they can't have it.
> 
> Must be nice to be rich and arrogant.


Exactly the situation. You said it best!


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## courier770

There seems to be a mentality here where people opt to use the cheapest possible yarns to knit for charity. Amy and I have both, for a long time tried to point out the danger of using acrylic yarns..they melt into the skin of the wearer when exposed to fire, causing more severe burns. I don't dispute the fact that natural fibers can also catch fire but synthetics cause more severe burns. They simply "melt" and "weld" into the skin of the wearer.

I stopped knitting with synthetics when my brother in law was so severely burned years ago. His synthetic shirt turned into a molten, liquid mass that welded to his body under his arm and across his chest. No amount of skin grafts ever restored his range of motion. He passed away this past 4th of July...almost 35 years to t he day he was burned. He developed lung cancer and missed all the typical signs because his old burns still caused him so much pain. 

I'll never forget the day that Matt was burned..I was there. I grabbed my then 2 year old son and hid behind the garage. My former husband "tackled" his little brother and suffered burns himself. From that day forward I quit using acrylic yarn to knit with. No one should have to hide behind a garage and hold their baby while a family member suffers life changing burns. NO one!

While I can tell you about what happened that day..I cannot describe how our family was changed, how we changed our shopping habits based on what happened in the blink of an eye. Not one of us ever went into a JCPenney, a KMart, WalMart or Target without looking at the fiber content of a garment. We all think these things happen to "someone else"...guess what..Matt was the "someone else". He never truly recovered from his burns and he never forgot what happened to him on that fateful day the summer of 1977.


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## rohohappy

Really, being covered is more important than the what the yarn is made of.....you must be a show me person...one that needs prove that acrylic will melt and burn. Try it yourself. See if you can live with the burns that result. Acrylic does not breath, it makes you sweat more. Wool and other natural fibers breath, wicking away the moisture thus keeping you warmer. If you are wet, you will get colder the wetter you get. Try wearing a hat you made yourself with acrylic, your head will sweat and then start to itch. Your hair will be wet and smell. Folks that are homeless need to be warm. Not sweaty and wet and cold.
Wool and wool blends can be found on line. Try knit picks or patternworks. They have really good sales. God bless the people you knit for if you continue to use acrylic.


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## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> I have ignored you and ignored you...I no longer can.
> 
> I support your right to do as you chose and to use what you use and to make your voice heard on what YOU think .
> 
> I do NOT support your horror stories! There is no picture of me on this sight and never will be! Wanna know why...I have scars on my right face,neck and shoulder!! From what....pulling a drunk friend out of a bonfire when I was a teenager....was I drunk no...she fell into the fire and I went in to pull her out...how dare you. I went through hell for that, and bottled myself away, and considered myself a monster...I am now 58 years old, and have donated my life to helping others, and someone decided that horror is the best lesson for others....YOU are a sad, miserable unhappy woman, bitter, hurtful, angry, ....try to justify to yourself how your words have hurt someone else!!! Wake up and smell the roses, before your own spirit rots, like a cancer!
> 
> Would I change what I did that day??? Hell no! The fabric I had on that day...cotton 100% pure cotton..did my clothes melt, no they burned INTO my skin...
> 
> I will go back to ignoring you, but will ask that the power that is, lets your black heart heal...and I forgive you for your ignorance!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Applause, applause! :thumbup: :thumbup:
I salute you for what you had done. A true hero.

And I also agree with what you say. :wink:


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## rohohappy

My heart goes out to you and your family God Bless all of you.


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## blessedinMO

You have had terrible experiences, but at some point you have to let go. If you can not let go, at least do not try to indoctrinate the rest of the us to your past. I know your concerns are real to you, but we all come from different pasts.


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## rohohappy

I will pray for you and if you continue to use acrylic then you have to live with the fact that someone may end up burned like you. And yes, I do know what it is like. My sister was burned in a fire and all the acrylic she was wearing melted into her skin.


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## LizAnne

ladysjk, you are my hero! And an amazing friend.


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## ladysjk

rohohappy said:


> I will pray for you and if you continue to use acrylic then you have to live with the fact that someone may end up burned like you. And yes, I do know what it is like. My sister was burned in a fire and all the acrylic she was wearing melted into her skin.


I want so bad to tell you what a lady should never say!!YOU and people like YOU do NOT know when to back off!! I hate this place any more...no one should be forced and have you stuff things down their throat...eventually this will all come home to haunt you and the others like you....I really really hope that life is better in the future for you, than it has been in the past. I would so much rather have had something MELT on my skin, than have had my skin dug out...I would soooo rather have had synthetics melt on me, than have the bones in my face have to be rebuilt..I soooo do not want another surgery, because once again, my body is rejecting the bone grafts.....I sooooo want to just be happy, and know that I am truly blessed, loved, respected, that the people I take care of are going to do just fine....and that is what I try to do everyday...and sometimes I succeed, and then there are people like you, and you break my heart, and make me relive the past over and over, and that breaks my heart.....and people like you, you don't really care about anyone..it is about you being right....well...goody for you, you lose and I win, you do not know how to feel for someone else, you climb up on you I am right box, and try to change everyone else, and make them feel they are less valuable than you are...that their work is inferior to yours, because they do not have a bottomless purse full of cash,..you make them feel as if their charity items are wothless, because they use acrylics...let me tell you....when you need milk in your house for your children and you see someone in the middle of a rain storm who has no shoes, or socks on his feet, and you make the choice to buy him socks and shoes, instead of milk for your own kids..that is charity, when you find someone that has laid on the floor for 4 days, who has been living with no heat, no food for God knows how long, and they are taken to the hospital and are going to be placed in a home, and YOU dig down deep in your own pocket to buy them gowns and slippers so they have something...that is charity...when you brag about what you spend on the yarn you use to knit for the needy...that is b. s.

I am taking a break from KP , maybe you and people like you will eventually learn to play nice with others, probably not, but one can always hope.....by the way, when your cap is dug out of someones head...or not...live with it!! Pray for yourself, and not for me, for God and I are very close friends....and he KNOWS what is in my heart..not YOU! I did not ask for your prayers and do not need them....you on the other hand may ask for peace in your life.

Where there is life there is hope...if there is to be peace let it start with me...I am not your judge nor your jury...a gift from the heart and not the purse means more..it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven....Be still and KNOW that I am God...may light shine to guide you on your path in life, and may the joy you bring others be your legacy...not I bought nothing but 100% natural fibers....sigh...Peace out...


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## blessedinMO

OMG! What will it take for this abuse to stop? You are in my prayers ladysjk.


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## mmorris

We're getting off the subject folks! The subject is yarn and the $$ of it--not about someone's terrible injuries.


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## blessedinMO

We got off the subject of the price of yarn when the bully-pulpit took over some twenty pages ago. I have lost all interest in the subject. I will just go and mind my own business.


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## galaxycraft

mmorris said:


> We're getting off the subject folks! The subject is yarn and the $$ of it--not about someone's terrible injuries.


It is apparent that we can no longer discuss any topic that has to do with any type of yarn.
Because these egotistical maniacs will hijack the topic each and every time. :thumbdown:


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## mmorris

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Condia

Very sad all this bickering between members " I am right, you are wrong stuff" Is this how you people treat people you talk to in person? It is causing several people to consider leaving or state they ARE leaving the group just because of the bullying and the holier than thou attitude. Sad. So many of us are hear to share, play nice, be respectful and to learn. Thank goodness most of the KP members are nice, considerate of others and not condescending to others that have different opinions. Knitting is enjoyable no matter what type of yarn you use, we all have different likes and dislikes that does not make one person right and the other person wrong. I personally think knitting for charity is wonderful, kind, generous, and loving. I think the homeless and others in need appreciate whatever kind of article of clothing they are given, no matter what the material is made of. Giving so you can get credit is not given in the right spirit. Giving to help others without reward for yourself is. We should all be able to post on KP without being afraid of being "attacked" by the bullies. If you can't say something nice don't post anything. Shame on the bullies, you are hurting this sight and it surly is not something the new people should be subjected to since they will leave before getting to know there are nice, friendly, helpful, encouraging people here too.


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## bwtyer

omg - what is all this fuss? I personally like the easy care of acrylics - I do treat my self to a really nice yarn every now and again- it is up to the person, their preference and their budget as what they enjoy knitting with. And none of you have the right to tell anyone they should change. Some have stated their preference nicely, others are really rude with their remarks! - the rest of us do not enjoy it. This past 3 months, I have seen more arguments on KP than ever - come on -- think before you type.


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## galaxycraft

That is the problem ... they are incapable of thinking through all that rage (or they can only hear their ego).
And they are reaching "troll" status very quickly.
But in my eyes they achieved that long ago.


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## blessedinMO

In real life they would be referred to as control freaks or manipulators. They enjoy life to center around them, and they hear no voice other than their own.


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## galaxycraft

And that's putting it mildly. :wink:


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## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> And that's putting it mildly. :wink:


Thank you, Galaxy :thumbup: :lol:


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## painthoss

tamarque said:


> Barter works.


Count me in for spinning.


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## knitnut86

I so agree with you!!! This site is about friendship and sharing, and respect for one another and their opinions. i have enjoyed this site up until this thread. Lets get back to being nice and stick to the topic of knitting, etc.


spinlouet said:


> Very sad all this bickering between members " I am right, you are wrong stuff" Is this how you people treat people you talk to in person? It is causing several people to consider leaving or state they ARE leaving the group just because of the bullying and the holier than thou attitude. Sad. So many of us are hear to share, play nice, be respectful and to learn. Thank goodness most of the KP members are nice, considerate of others and not condescending to others that have different opinions. Knitting is enjoyable no matter what type of yarn you use, we all have different likes and dislikes that does not make one person right and the other person wrong. I personally think knitting for charity is wonderful, kind, generous, and loving. I think the homeless and others in need appreciate whatever kind of article of clothing they are given, no matter what the material is made of. Giving so you can get credit is not given in the right spirit. Giving to help others without reward for yourself is. We should all be able to post on KP without being afraid of being "attacked" by the bullies. If you can't say something nice don't post anything. Shame on the bullies, you are hurting this sight and it surly is not something the new people should be subjected to since they will leave before getting to know there are nice, friendly, helpful, encouraging people here too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> I so agree with you!!! This site is about friendship and sharing, and respect for one another and their opinions. i have enjoyed this site up until this thread. Lets get back to being nice and stick to the topic of knitting, etc.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Amen to that!


----------



## rohohappy

galaxycraft said:


> It is apparent that we can no longer discuss any topic that has to do with any type of yarn.
> Because these egotistical maniacs will hijack the topic each and every time. :thumbdown:


You are a very narrow minded person who would knit with acrylic yarn and then give it to someone who is a bad way and give them something that would make them worse off.
get a life


----------



## galaxycraft

I'm So Happy! I'm So Happy! -- What's that song? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

rohohappy said:


> You are a very narrow minded person who would knit with acrylic yarn and then give it to someone who is a bad way and give them something that would make them worse off.
> get a life


How can you make a comment like that, and call someone else narrow minded????? How do you know that EVERY acrylic item given to a needy person will make them worse off???? You make it sound like acrylic automatically ignites as soon as it touches a homeless person!!!!


----------



## rohohappy

You are one very sick human being.....apparently you thrive on hurting other people.....God has a place for people like you and it wontl be heaven..


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> I'm So Happy! I'm So Happy! -- What's that song? :lol: :lol: :lol:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Jokim

Bea 465 said:


> I would love to shop at Web's warehouse sales. Too bad I'm 3,000 miles away!


They ship and have online sales. Check 'em out!


----------



## Mary Su 2

rohohappy said:


> You are one very sick human being.....apparently you thrive on hurting other people.....God has a place for people like you and it wontl be heaven..


Are you referring to me??? I am 'a very sick human being' for calling you narrow minded??? But it's OK when you do it to others??? You have no idea who I am and what good or harm I have done in my life, and now you claim to be speaking for God??? Whether you were referring to me or someone else, you have no say in what God has in store for anyone!!!! God knows what each of us has done, and it is up to God, and God alone to decide where our place is!!! I don't believe any of us have read the memo that made you his spokesperson!!!!


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Mary Su 2 said:


> Are you referring to me??? I am 'a very sick human being' for calling you narrow minded??? But it's OK when you do it to others??? You have no idea who I am and what good or harm I have done in my life, and now you claim to be speaking for God??? Whether you were referring to me or someone else, you have no say in what God has in store for anyone!!!! God knows what each of us has done, and it is up to God, and God alone to decide where our place is!!! I don't believe any of us have read the memo that made you his spokesperson!!!!


I believe she meant to tell you that you were going to hell. That is pretty sick behavior.


----------



## Jokim

AmyKnits said:


> I agree that there are wonderful bargains to be found. I shop at Tuesday Morning, scour the Internet and part of the process and fun of knitting IS the "hunt" for beautiful yarns at a great price (as someone else said on previous page).
> 
> Once you have had the pleasure of working with and wearing "quality" fibers, it is VERY difficult to go back! (Although I have never purchased or used Red Heart yarns OR Lion Fishermans Wool and others because I can tell by look and feel that it is not something I would enjoy working with or wearing/giving) The yarn you choose can (and almost always does) effect the success and outcome of the project. Just as I have RARELY (if EVER) used the recommended yarn for the project, I RARELY pay full price for my yarn.
> 
> I see items posted every day and I think to myself "such nice work.... This OK item would have been BREATHTAKING done in a decent fiber". I didn't SEE the difference myself when I was a new knitter and had not branched out to try all kinds of fibers and learning which is best for which project.
> 
> I also read every day that many knitters "keep the good yarns for myself" and use inexpensive fibers for charity. I know I am in the minority, but I would MUCH prefer to skimp on something for MYSELF and use the finer yarns for someone in need.... This just makes more sense as I wish to actually provide warmth and comfort to those that need it. It's not REALLY doing something nice for another if you save the GOOD or expensive materials for yourself and give cheap items to those who have less than you?! To me, that's not REALLY charity at all.
> 
> Great bargains are out there and EASY to find if you want to improve your knitting and enjoy working with, wearing and giving the best projects you can.
> 
> If you become educated/informed, there is no need to be alarmed by or actually pay "sticker" price for the beautiful yarns you see at prices out of your reach... A bargain on the same or similar yarn is just a "click" away.......


Amy, I admire you for what you do. The Golden Rule should apply in everything we do. Kudos!


----------



## Mary Su 2

BobnDejasMom said:


> I believe she meant to tell you that you were going to hell. That is pretty sick behavior.


Oh I knew that that was what she meant!!! I just wasn't sure if she was referring to me or one of the others that dared to disagree with her!! And I still want to know who told her that she knows what God is thinking!!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

I think I am having a nightmare. I'd better get back to bed so I can wake up.


----------



## Jokim

BluesChanteuse said:


> Amy is a wise and intelligent woman, thank you for comparing me to her.


Good for you!  Not only is Amy wise and intelligent, she is also extremely helpful to all.


----------



## misellen

mopgenorth said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: you can't argue with narcissism!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> I think I am having a nightmare. I'd better get back to bed so I can wake up.


I agree with you on that!! But there are about 3 or 4 people who have turned this simple topic into a 's**t flinging match', as someone said earlier, and have appointed themselves as the only ones that have any idea of what they are doing and have decided that we must all do as they say or else we are cruel and inhumane!!! 
Not only do they know what's best as far as knitting and charity goes, one even claims to know what God is thinking!!!


----------



## Jokim

BluesChanteuse said:


> People forget that acrylic yarn IS PLASTIC. And it melts as such.


Fumes from burning/melting plastic in the environment, not just yarn, cause many deaths, also. Why argue such points to the extent of causing rifts among friends?


----------



## gypsie

rohohappy said:


> You are a very narrow minded person who would knit with acrylic yarn and then give it to someone who is a bad way and give them something that would make them worse off.
> get a life


I cannot believe how childish this is getting. A person is narrow minded for giving an acrylic hat to a homeless person? I guess I have a pea brain because I have worn acrylic hats my entire life! Am I suppose to consider myself worse off for it? What is wrong with you people?


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I agree with you on that!! But there are about 3 or 4 people who have turned this simple topic into a 's**t flinging match', as someone said earlier, and have appointed themselves as the only ones that have any idea of what they are doing and have decided that we must all do as they say or else we are cruel and inhumane!!!
> Not only do they know what's best as far as knitting and charity goes, one even claims to know what God is thinking!!!


Not to mention we are all condemned to H**L.
Oh My! :lol:


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> I agree with you on that!! But there are about 3 or 4 people who have turned this simple topic into a 's**t flinging match', as someone said earlier, and have appointed themselves as the only ones that have any idea of what they are doing and have decided that we must all do as they say or else we are cruel and inhumane!!!
> Not only do they know what's best as far as knitting and charity goes, one even claims to know what God is thinking!!!


That is the sad part. They don't even care what the subject is, they just come in, take over, and preach their agenda. This was a good thread. I was at the beginning of it.


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> That is the sad part. They don't even care what the subject is, they just come in, take over, and preach their agenda. This was a good thread. I was at the beginning of it.


Yup. Typical troll behavior ... get it started, back out for a bit; come back just to start all over again.


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Yup. Typical troll behavior ... get it started, back out for a bit; come back just to start all over again.


Thanks for explaining it. This has been a new experience, but I'm beginning to recognize it. Thanks a lot.


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> Not to mention we are all condemned to H**L.
> Oh My! :lol:


Well, I guess you, 'blessedinMO' and I, plus any of the other 'sinners' can all have a great party when we meet there!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> Well, I guess you, 'blessedinMO' and I, plus any of the other 'sinners' can all have a great party when we meet there!!!


I'll bring the margarita, you bring the ice. :lol:
Or do you want me to bring the ice?


----------



## BobnDejasMom

We shouldn't defend ourselves. We should just ignore them and post as if their comments did not exist.
I bought some Vanna White acrylic and Red Heart Stardust at our Shopko store on sale the other day. I was happy to find the on sale yarn because I thought they would be getting new yarns. I was really disappointed yesterday when I saw they had restocked those shelves with their plastic dollar sale kitchen junk.


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> I'll bring the margarita, you bring the ice. :lol:
> Or do you want me to bring the ice?


Well, I'll try to bring the ice, but where we're going I think we may have to drink our margaritas warm!!! Lol


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> Well, I'll try to bring the ice, but where we're going I think we may have to drink our margaritas warm!!! Lol


We will have to drink them fast then, huh?
Then we could slay the savage beast ... Hey, we would be doing God's work. What an honor! :thumbup:
Hope I am not offending.


----------



## sumnerusa

BluesChanteuse said:


> There was always cheap yarn and expensive yarn.
> 
> It's hardly "silly" to chose based on quality and not _just_ cost when you're able to do so.
> 
> I had some knitters on both sides of the family.
> 
> The knitters that bothered to use quality stuff, their items were sought after by the family and passed down from generation to generation.
> 
> Then there was the aunt that always used the cheap stuff, and pumped out items like a factory.
> 
> It was always a joke in the family about who was gonna get "stuck" with that aunt's crappy items. It's hard to know how to react because on one hand, you know that someone put some effort knitting the items in the first place and you don't want to insult that. But then on the other hand, that crap ends up piling up in the back of your closet because no one REALLY wants to wear it.
> 
> People who use the crappy stuff think people don't notice, but they do.


Wow! You are the nastiest yet. Not all of us have the ability to pay for expensive yarns. Many of us are on a limited income. I guess our friends and family will just have to be happy with the "crap" we make.


----------



## Mary Su 2

Well I think that BluesChanteuse certainly has the right picture for her avatar!!! She is channelling Joan Crawford at her bitchiest!!


----------



## galaxycraft

:lol: :lol: margarita time


----------



## mwatpon

You are one misguided individual if you cannot see the terrible rudeness and condescending ways of AmyKnits.

She is at the beginning of all problems on this forum. Go to any topic that has become a spitting match and you will find her starting it. Go to page 3 of this topic.

Amy also makes the statement that stockinette will not roll. She doesn't know what she's talking about.

Amy also criticizes people who will not use 12 inch circulars to knit with.

And someone in this post, someone said that AmyKnits carries a gun. That is a chilling thought.

She is mean to people. If you support her, then you are the same.

Think about it.



Jokim said:


> Amy, I admire you for what you do. The Golden Rule should apply in everything we do. Kudos!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

sumnerusa said:


> Wow! You are the nastiest yet. Not all of us have the ability to pay for expensive yarns. Many of us are on a limited income. I guess our friends and family will just have to be happy with the "crap" we make.


If you're gonna wade into the water at least bring in some facts.

It's simply a lie or a nescient that you can't afford to buy natural fibers to knit with. You can find quality yarn on sale for the same or near same price as acrylic.

If you don't mind putting your children/family at risk for serious, life threatening burns, that's your choice, but I personally find THAT "nasty".

Whatever you think of me, the facts are facts and ignoring them doesn't make your family or recipients of charity any safer or warmer.


----------



## mwatpon

Yeah? Amy will tell you a way to stop stockinette from rolling. And you probably think she's right.

Amy is hurtful to more people than she helps. She provides inaccurate information.



Jokim said:


> Good for you!  Not only is Amy wise and intelligent, she is also extremely helpful to all.


----------



## Mary Su 2

mwatpon said:


> You are one misguided individual if you cannot see the terrible rudeness and condescending ways of AmyKnits.
> 
> She is at the beginning of all problems on this forum. Go to any topic that has become a spitting match and you will find her starting it. Go to page 3 of this topic.
> 
> Amy also makes the statement that stockinette will not roll. She doesn't know what she's talking about.
> 
> Amy also criticizes people who will not use 12 inch circulars to knit with.
> 
> And someone in this post, someone said that AmyKnits carries a gun. That is a chilling thought.
> 
> She is mean to people. If you support her, then you are the same.
> 
> Think about it.


I agree with everything you say!!
:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Irene-KnittingParadise.com said:


> PLEASE! Let's not be picky! Everyone does things they are comfortable with and using what they can afford. Let's not discourage anyone from what they do with what they use.


It's not "picky" to point out that people are genuinely put at risk when someone uses plastic yarn for charity knitting.

This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mary Su 2 said:


> Well I think that BluesChanteuse certainly has the right picture for her avatar!!! She is channelling Joan Crawford at her bitchiest!!


And I think that you believing that's Joan Crawford keeps your streak of being WRONG and misinformed on even the simplest of things -- consistent.


----------



## peachy51

...


----------



## bwtyer

BluesChanteuse said:


> It's not "picky" to point out that people are genuinely put at risk when someone uses plastic yarn for charity knitting.
> 
> This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT.


Please - you are very rude- your inappropiate language in a previous post was uncalled for- if you can't take the heat like an adult without reverting to childish foul lanquage, then get out of the fire. You are entitled to your opinion but that does NOT MAKE YOU RIGHT.


----------



## vjh1530

courier770 said:


> There seems to be a mentality here where people opt to use the cheapest possible yarns to knit for charity. Amy and I have both, for a long time tried to point out the danger of using acrylic yarns..they melt into the skin of the wearer when exposed to fire, causing more severe burns. I don't dispute the fact that natural fibers can also catch fire but synthetics cause more severe burns. They simply "melt" and "weld" into the skin of the wearer.
> 
> I stopped knitting with synthetics when my brother in law was so severely burned years ago. His synthetic shirt turned into a molten, liquid mass that welded to his body under his arm and across his chest. No amount of skin grafts ever restored his range of motion. He passed away this past 4th of July...almost 35 years to t he day he was burned. He developed lung cancer and missed all the typical signs because his old burns still caused him so much pain.
> 
> I'll never forget the day that Matt was burned..I was there. I grabbed my then 2 year old son and hid behind the garage. My former husband "tackled" his little brother and suffered burns himself. From that day forward I quit using acrylic yarn to knit with. No one should have to hide behind a garage and hold their baby while a family member suffers life changing burns. NO one!
> 
> While I can tell you about what happened that day..I cannot describe how our family was changed, how we changed our shopping habits based on what happened in the blink of an eye. Not one of us ever went into a JCPenney, a KMart, WalMart or Target without looking at the fiber content of a garment. We all think these things happen to "someone else"...guess what..Matt was the "someone else". He never truly recovered from his burns and he never forgot what happened to him on that fateful day the summer of 1977.


So instead of putting the baby in a safe spot and helping your "beloved" Matt, you ran away and left him to burn to death? So glad you hate me, lol! Who needs that kind of "love"! And your answer is to now knit with wool? Wow. Maybe if you HAD helped your BIL, as any true caring person would have, he might still be alive. At least he certainly would have lived a better life. A poster earlier described how she threw herself into a bonfire to save her friend - you couldn't even bother to grab a blanket or something and try? You just walked away. I'm sure you will blame it on keeping your baby safe, but you could have done that easily and still saved your "beloved" Matt. Your story disgusts me. You should be ashamed. I can't believe you are so arrogant to even post that you committed such an inhumane act. It's like being proud of committing murder, because that is what you did by leaving him there alone. You have the nerve to say that "no one should have to hide behind a garage while someone burns" Oh right - this was all about your trauma, not his. OMG! I can't imagine the terror he felt when he saw you leave him there!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

mwatpon said:


> You are one misguided individual if you cannot see the terrible rudeness and condescending ways of AmyKnits..


AmyKnits is perfectly polite and respectful in the way she expresses her opinions. All she's EVER done is provide truthful information, and for some reason that pisses some of the ignorant off. They don't like hearing inconvenient truths so they go after the messenger. Typical of cowards.

In fact, her tolerance in responding to even the most idiotic posts is quite impressive. She practically has the patience of a saint.

Me on the other hand, I'm not as willing to put up with crap and will push back.


----------



## pavasa

WHY are people putting all the blame on Amy Knits!! It is BluesChantuse who has been stirring up all the commotion!!! AND BTW her Avatar is pic of Betty Davis and not Joan Crawford. 
I cannot believe our Administrator has allowed this to go on for so long!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

BluesChanteuse said:


> And I think that you believing that's Joan Crawford keeps your streak of being WRONG and misinformed on even the simplest of things -- consistent.
> 
> What 'streak of being WRONG'??? I haven't posted enough opinions to be considered 'consistent' in anything!!!


----------



## ladysjk

BluesChanteuse said:


> And I think that you believing that's Joan Crawford keeps your streak of being WRONG and misinformed on even the simplest of things -- consistent.


I am here, with no apology for anyone....this is way way out there now, to where people and now saying vulgarity in their postings, and after an hour with my sister, and best friend..here is what I want to say..

I was all wrong, all of us and those of you who use nothing but natural fiber and better yarns are absolutely right. I am a useless piece of garbage, because I made poor choices in my life, and decided that my money could be put to better use....College for GS, prom dress for Gd..this list goes on...I was so so wrong....

Now I have admitted that I am an idiot and that the rest of you are much more educated than I am....This whole post is one big joke...

I am inviting all of you that are having margaritas, with Galaxy to leave this to those who are so much more intelligent and giving than anyone else....

Ladies, it is time to do the right thing, even if it is the hardest thing...quit, just quit.....do not feed them...they will suck the life out of you...they put me in a horrible place...I have now been pulled up by my boot heels, and reminded that the only power that anyone holds on us, is the power we give them..take back our power, lets all find a quiet happier place.

Please for the love of everything good...leave this topic and hope it dies a natural death...and not one caused by fire....blessings and so much love to those who hold their heads high and do the best they can do...care to join me is kissing this topic goodbye....


----------



## Mary Su 2

pavasa said:



> WHY are people putting all the blame on Amy Knits!! It is BluesChantuse who has been stirring up all the commotion!!! AND BTW her Avatar is pic of Betty Davis and not Joan Crawford.
> I cannot believe our Administrator has allowed this to go on for so long!!


Yes, you are right about the avatar!! Thank you pavasa for correcting my mistake instead of simply criticizing it!! I knew which movie that picture was from, but in my haste, I named the wrong actress! I am willing to admit when I am wrong, unlike some people!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> I am here, with no apology for anyone....this is way way out there now, to where people and now saying vulgarity in their postings, and after an hour with my sister, and best friend..here is what I want to say..
> 
> I was all wrong, all of us and those of you who use nothing but natural fiber and better yarns are absolutely right. I am a useless piece of garbage, because I made poor choices in my life, and decided that my money could be put to better use....College for GS, prom dress for Gd..this list goes on...I was so so wrong....
> 
> Now I have admitted that I am an idiot and that the rest of you are much more educated than I am....This whole post is one big joke...
> 
> I am inviting all of you that are having margaritas, with Galaxy to leave this to those who are so much more intelligent and giving than anyone else....
> 
> Ladies, it is time to do the right thing, even if it is the hardest thing...quit, just quit.....do not feed them...they will suck the life out of you...they put me in a horrible place...I have now been pulled up by my boot heels, and reminded that the only power that anyone holds on us, is the power we give them..take back our power, lets all find a quiet happier place.
> 
> Please for the love of everything good...leave this topic and hope it dies a natural death...and not one caused by fire....blessings and so much love to those who hold their heads high and do the best they can do...care to join me is kissing this topic goodbye....


I agree with every word, and I'm right behind you!!


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Go to the bottom and find Report Issue. Tell admin what you think. I did.


----------



## bwtyer

agreed, ladysjk - I too made miserable choices, working for 40 years , raising kids, putting them through college, taking care of my DH who is a heart patient and then having the nerve to get ill myself- very poor planning on my part- I'll bring the ice and my cheap acrylic yarn!


----------



## galaxycraft

Okay, I got the margarita mix.
The ice is covered, the yarn is on the way; let me dig out the pattern books and extra needles.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mary Su 2 said:


> BluesChanteuse said:
> 
> 
> 
> And I think that you believing that's Joan Crawford keeps your streak of being WRONG and misinformed on even the simplest of things -- consistent.
> 
> 
> 
> What 'streak of being WRONG'??? I haven't posted enough opinions to be considered 'consistent' in anything!!!
Click to expand...

Nice job with the board code. 

And 231 isn't "enough" posts? Or did you think that people aren't able to read your other posts in other threads?


----------



## mopgenorth

vjh1530 said:


> So instead of putting the baby in a safe spot and helping your "beloved" Matt, you ran away and left him to burn to death? So glad you hate me, lol! Who needs that kind of "love"! And your answer is to now knit with wool? Wow. Maybe if you HAD helped your BIL, as any true caring person would have, he might still be alive. At least he certainly would have lived a better life. A poster earlier described how she threw herself into a bonfire to save her friend - you couldn't even bother to grab a blanket or something and try? You just walked away. I'm sure you will blame it on keeping your baby safe, but you could have done that easily and still saved your "beloved" Matt. Your story disgusts me. You should be ashamed. I can't believe you are so arrogant to even post that you committed such an inhumane act. It's like being proud of committing murder, because that is what you did by leaving him there alone. You have the nerve to say that "no one should have to hide behind a garage while someone burns" Oh right - this was all about your trauma, not his. OMG! I can't imagine the terror he felt when he saw you leave him there!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

ladysjk said:


> I am here, with no apology for anyone....this is way way out there now, to where people and now saying vulgarity in their postings, and after an hour with my sister, and best friend..here is what I want to say...


The poor and the indigent don't care about vulgarities, they care about being warm and they care about not having plastic melted into their skin in a fire.

Again, focusing on hurt feelings and feigned affront on a knitting board rather than considering the needs of the needy, reveals a serious lack of moral perspective.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mary Su 2 said:


> I am willing to admit when I am wrong, unlike some people!


Wow, that would keep you occupied 24/7!! How would you ever find time for knitting?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

BobnDejasMom said:


> Go to the bottom and find Report Issue. Tell admin what you think. I did.


OH THE HORROR!

You people have been stalking and attacking AmyKnits for how long... and as soon as someone gives you a taste of your own medicine you go running home to tell mommy someone isn't being nice to you?

Boo hoo.









It still won't change the facts that Acrylic yarn is not warm and endangers the needy and if that's what you're knitting for them, you're either thoughtless and selfish, or a simpleton.

But, all YOU care about is if someone was rude to you on a knitting board?

Keep showing your true colors.


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Wow, that would keep you occupied 24/7!! How would you ever find time for knitting?


Was that really necessary? I suppose you are never wrong?


----------



## kwright

I want to thank you all for your support. I feel better. Just to let you know, Ive had my B-12 shot, and I guess it is working. I was absolutely not expecting all the support that I received from all of you. I did my homework. I understand the concerns of all those who are worried about the flammability of acrylic yarn. I researched it, and what I found was that it has to be over 500°F for it to flame. If heated, it forms a bead, pulls away from the heat source, and forms a ball. There is it sticks to the skin. In any case, it is a burn. I get it, but I dont think it was designed as a fabric to be harmful; possibly, a new thread/yarn for making clothing more inexpensive.

As to the homeless, when you have nothing, anything that will make your life easier, is a good thing. Im not setting them up to be a human torch. I am simply trying to help in the only way that I can, and know that I tried. I buy them food. I know facial expressions for thankfulness, and the feeling of a giving heart. God knows my heart and intentions. However, most of what I make goes to cancer patients, and people who are ill. If you give to those that are infirm, acrylic is the yarn of choice unless you have eczema. It tends to irritate the eczema. 

Maybe it will calm you down. However, I am still going to use my yarn of choice and continue making my 'toe burners!!!' Have a wonderful night, sleep well, and God bless you. He who has not sinned, be the one to throw the first stone.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> Was that really necessary? I suppose you are never wrong?


No more necessary than her insults.


----------



## saarlt

kwright said:


> I want to thank you all for your support. I feel better. Just to let you know, Ive had my B-12 shot, and I guess it is working. I was absolutely not expecting all the support that I received from all of you. I did my homework. I understand the concerns of all those who are worried about the flammability of acrylic yarn. I researched it, and what I found was that it has to be over 500°F for it to flame. If heated, it forms a bead, pulls away from the heat source, and forms a ball. There is it sticks to the skin. In any case, it is a burn. I get it, but I dont think it was designed as a fabric to be harmful; possibly, a new thread/yarn for making clothing more inexpensive.
> 
> As to the homeless, when you have nothing, anything that will make your life easier, is a good thing. Im not setting them up to be a human torch. I am simply trying to help in the only way that I can, and know that I tried. I buy them food. I know facial expressions for thankfulness, and the feeling of a giving heart. God knows my heart and intentions. However, most of what I make goes to cancer patients, and people who are ill. If you give to those that are infirm, acrylic is the yarn of choice unless you have eczema. It tends to irritate the eczema.
> 
> Maybe it will calm you down. However, I am still going to use my yarn of choice and continue making my 'toe burners!!!' Have a wonderful night, sleep well, and God bless you. He who has not sinned, be the one to throw the first stone.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and again I say......an angel in our group


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> agreed, ladysjk - I too made miserable choices, working for 40 years , raising kids, putting them through college, taking care of my DH who is a heart patient and then having the nerve to get ill myself- very poor planning on my part- I'll bring the ice and my cheap acrylic yarn!


Sorry those things happened to you.

What does that have to do with knitting with acrylic yarn for the needy when you could knit with safer yarn at the same price?


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Sorry those things happened to you.
> 
> What does that have to do with knitting with acrylic yarn for the needy when you could knit with safer yarn at the same price?


And what does the acrylic yarn debate have to do with the original post in this thread?

Since you are famous for quoting facts, the fact is that you and a few others have totally hijacked the OP's thread to the tune of 20 some pages.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

galaxycraft said:


> Okay, I got the margarita mix.
> The ice is covered, the yarn is on the way; let me dig out the pattern books and extra needles.


Oh, me thinks the "_Let's knit plastic mittens for at risk children_" ilk have been hitting the hooch all along.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

I have never attacked AmyKnits.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

saarlt said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: and again I say......an angel in our group


She may be an angel, but she's wrong.

The plastic yarn when melted gets imbedded into the skin and causes what would've been relatively minor burns to extremely scarring and/or life-threatening burns.

It doesn't "roll away" into a ball somewhere.

And the flashpoint of acrylic is MUCH quicker than any natural fiber.


----------



## bwtyer

BluesChanteuse said:


> Sorry those things happened to you.
> 
> What does that have to do with knitting with acrylic yarn for the needy when you could knit with safer yarn at the same price?


I am in a warm climate- don't need to worry about open fires in the winter time here -the homeless don't need them. Acrylic and acrylic blends are fine here - and actually are recommended by some of the shelters because they are so easy to wash and dry. Wool is too warm for here.


----------



## kwright

FYI The price of Red Heart Super Saver is $1.99 with a 40% off coupon at the LYS when I buy one skein. Regular price runs $3.99. 

Wool makes me itch. I was given a skein of wool as a gift, and gave it to someone as I could not use it. When you physically cannot use one type of yarn, find one you can.


----------



## Frogsong

rohohappy said:


> You are a very narrow minded person who would knit with acrylic yarn and then give it to someone who is a bad way and give them something that would make them worse off.
> get a life


Or maybe you're narrow minded for giving things to people "who are in a bad way", made of high maintenance materials that need hand washing. Do you really believe a sick person feels like hand washing everything just to make you feel better about yourself?


----------



## Frogsong

rohohappy said:


> You are one very sick human being.....apparently you thrive on hurting other people.....God has a place for people like you and it wontl be heaven..


Good grief! Okay, I'm giving up on you. You obviously need professional help. :/


----------



## peachy51

Frogsong said:


> Good grief! Okay, I'm giving up on you. You obviously need professional help. :/


HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Love it :thumbup:


----------



## Frogsong

Reading comprehension one oh one could be your friend!



> katyboom wrote:
> OMG.... Really???!!!!!
> 
> IMHO.
> 1/. An acrylic knitted hat is so much warmer than a bare head or hands.
> 
> There are scientific measuring standards that measure the warmth retained by various fibers.
> 
> It's a scientific FACT that wool is warmer. (Just because acrylic doesn't let your skin breath and you sweat is not an indication that you're warmer), not an "opinion".
> 
> It's pretty much a "knitting 101" understood FACT.
> 
> It's one thing to argue that in certain circumstances "warmth" isn't that important, but to argue that wool isn't warmer is either willfully obtuse, or just plain ol' ignorance.
> 
> As I pointed out before, There was a city in a cold climate (I THINK it was somewhere in Canada), that requred that charity knitting be made of wool ... and that year the number of frostbite cased was cut in half.
> 
> It's not a matter of "opinion". Wool is warmer.


What she SAID WAS.... Acrylic is warmer than a bare head or hands. NOT that it is warmer than wool.

And just for your education... not everyone lives in frigid areas. I live in California. We don't need wool here! Acrylic is fine and appreciated.


----------



## Frogsong

BluesChanteuse said:


> It's not "picky" to point out that people are genuinely put at risk when someone uses plastic yarn for charity knitting.
> 
> This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT.


Some people are allergic to wool. How are you going to feel when your wool hat causes someone to go into anaphylactic shock? It could happen, so your wool charity items are evil! Evil I say! And you are trying to murder innocent people!!


----------



## Bonnie7591

javalinarose said:


> I was just vacationing in Alaska and bought ONE OUNCE of muskox wool....$99!!!!!!! It did make an awesome scarf. Those little muskox babies were sure adorable.


I think you got taken at a tourist place. I saw it at Banff for $85, came home & looked on ebay& paid $28 from a place in Quebec. It sure is beautiful yarn, my feet are aways freezing & it is supposed to be 8 times warmer than wool so bought enough for a pair of socks. They are very warm & I save them for the coldest weather.


----------



## suzy-kate

BluesChanteuse said:


> Well, intuitively, if there's an acrylic blend, there'd be less acrylic to melt into the skin, but it will still melt. Which, to me means, there's more risk of SERIOUS burn with it than without it.
> 
> It's a matter of asking if you're willing to risk a LOT of plastic melting into skin or less plastic melting into skin.
> 
> Still an unnecessary risk, IMO. At least for people who are more at risk at being caught in fire.


The cotton modacrylic acrylic blend I have just does not catch fire or melt, it chars a little next to the flame, but that's it. The modacrylic in it stops even the cotton from burning. So this got me wondering if wool in a blend might have a similar affect, couldn't find any info on the internet (published burn info is on 100% materials and just says that blended materials will not react the same). So looks like I need to experiment to find out.


----------



## Cyber Granny

I classify myself as disadvantaged, living on a fixed pension. Will all these knitters, who's mouths are bigger than purse or stash, knit me a jersey in their best wool, I am a size 44, I thank you in advance.


----------



## kwright

There is a time and a season for all things. It is too hot for wool in South and Southeast Texas. It seldom if ever snows. We can wear shorts on Christmas day. I am glad that I have a practical alternative to wool, acrylic and cotton. I am so sorry that some find it so distasteful.


----------



## Cyber Granny

I to live in a climate that doesn't realy get cold, I too knit with acrylic totally, and knit for charity alone, its my pleasure. You have nothing to be sorry for, keep doing what you are doing and never mind the rest. Obviously some people have never been in a position to be grateful for what they receive. I have just been given 35 cones of 500g each of acrylic wool, and I know I can make hundreds of slippers and knee blankets from that wool.


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> :lol: :lol: margarita time


Burp  :thumbup:


----------



## Condia

In this day and age of excessive law suits ...If acrylic yarn was so terrible and maimed or killed so many people it would no longer be in the market and their would be MULTIPLE law suits from it. Please stop this bickering and be nice to others on KP. This site if for learning, helping, sharing and encouraging. We are all entitled to use whatever yarn we choose. Not to mention the topic of this post was about the increasing cost of yarn not about the dangers of acrylic VS natural fibers. NO MORE OF THIS NASTINESS to others please.


----------



## Cyber Granny

Management should step in and close this topic


----------



## sumnerusa

BluesChanteuse said:


> OH THE HORROR!
> 
> You people have been stalking and attacking AmyKnits for how long... and as soon as someone gives you a taste of your own medicine you go running home to tell mommy someone isn't being nice to you?
> 
> Boo hoo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It still won't change the facts that Acrylic yarn is not warm and endangers the needy and if that's what you're knitting for them, you're either thoughtless and selfish, or a simpleton.
> 
> But, all YOU care about is if someone was rude to you on a knitting board?
> 
> Keep showing your true colors.


May I just point out one thing...unless your sofa and chairs are made from leather or cotton (rarely done), the furniture on which you sit is made from petroleum.....as are some drapes and many mattresses and the car seats in your car. Unfortunately, we cannot protect everyone, including ourselves, all the time. I, personally have not heard of a homeless person being harmed by fire while wearing acrylic and that's not to say it hasn't or can't happen. All we can do is the best we can to provide them shelter and warmth.....each of us has a different way of doing that and should never be criticized for our acts of kindness. Amy and Blue chanteuse, you are obviously in a better financial situation than many people on this forum....some of which are house bound and strapped financially. Their acts of kindness are just as valuable as yours no matter what kind of yarn they use.


----------



## Lori Putz

CandyMT1 said:


> I live just down the road from Webs. Yes, they have some fabulous yarns and they do have a back room where they sell close-outs. I was there two weeks ago and bought some Universal Yarn C;assic Worsted Tapestry for my granddaughter's sweater this Christmas (Grandson's is already done). They yarn was half price. When i saw the price I ended up buying their sweater yarn for next year as well.
> 
> I do go to Webs, but like another poster, I buy a lot of yarn from KnitPicks. They have extremely good quality yarn at very reasonable prices. In fact, I have never been disappointed with anything I purchased from KP. Their yans are all fabulous to work with and their needles are terrific.
> 
> Caron Simply Soft yarn is very nice - a bit "splitty" but quite nice to work with and has a lovely sheen. I can usually find it at Michaels or WalMart.
> 
> Michael's has a brand of their own - Loops and Threads - and that yarn is also very good. Soft, warm, nice to work with and reasonably priced.
> 
> The more expensive yarns also in many cases require a lot of care. I knot for grandkids, great grandkids, and for charity. What mom has the time to hand wash a child's sweater and lay flat to dry? I would rather use an acrylic or acrylic blend that is easy care and have it be worn! I don't want the kids and their moms to fret about getting something dirty and how it has to be washed!
> 
> As an aside on Webs, the people there are very helpful and they have wonderful classes, but when i mention that I prefer to work with acrylic yarns they tend to turn into "yarn snobs" and point out that real quality yans make a much better finished product. I counter with "maybe, but i want my knitted gifts to be WORN and LOVED - not sit in a drawer!


I too buy KnitPicks for sock yarns and special items, but I watch for sales and such. Joann's is another place that often has coupons. I simply can't afford to pay full price for items. I have found many bulky yarns as well from Caron, Lionbrand, and Red Heart that often work nicely for the patterns I want to work on. 
My son, who is now an adult, use to go with me to the stores and stick his hand in a pile of yarn and tell me if it "felt good". I decided that was the way to test it. I am attracted first to color and then test the texture. If I like it and can afford it, we move from there.
When I started making my sons' socks, I knew when they went away to college and beyond they would NOT wash and hang to dry, so I had to step up to washable wools. I do not judge on the "quality" of the yarn because in most cases, no one knows the brand but me. But if I can afford it, they love the color, and it looks nice, then it is worth the effort.

No one should judge anyone else since this is a site to SUPPORT, not to judge, ridicule, or make those who have to make choices based on their budgets. Why do we come here if we can't SUPPORT.


----------



## Yarnstormer

We have some lovely yarn shops within a 10 mile radius of our town. Two shops that have been in business for several years have now closed their doors. It is very sad to see. Pricing has gone out of sight I agree. The Internet shopping has hurt many a business. Believe me I am all for a good deal these days. If you want to knit or quilt you have to hunt for quality merchandise at a price that suits your budget.


----------



## PaKnitter

maryann1701 said:


> I classify myself as disadvantaged, living on a fixed pension. Will all these knitters, who's mouths are bigger than purse or stash, knit me a jersey in their best wool, I am a size 44, I thank you in advance.


You made me giggle...


----------



## Cyber Granny

Nobody has offered yet, the postage will cost more than the jersey, I live in South Africa


----------



## Lablover

All this talk of charity. Some of the posters should be more charitable to their fellow KPer's and not try so hard to impress everyone with their opinion. When you are correct you need not repeat your opinion so harshly and with belittling comments to others. No one here is stupid. Charity begins at home.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> I am in a warm climate- don't need to worry about open fires in the winter time here -the homeless don't need them. Acrylic and acrylic blends are fine here - and actually are recommended by some of the shelters because they are so easy to wash and dry. Wool is too warm for here.


Again, another example of people living in their "bubbles" and not paying attention to how some other people live.

If it's cold enough where people would _need_ mittens/hats/scarves etc then it's cold enough for an open fire and rickety space heaters. Not as frequently as in colder climates, but certainly many parts of Texas are known for their very cold nights.

Actually, acrylic is even MORE bothersome in _warmer_ weather because skin can't breath and people sweat underneath (even though they don't feel warm. They get that cold, clammy feeling) the plastic stays wet instead of absorbing the moisture and it's very uncomfortable and people get "the chills"

Cotton would be a perfect natural fiber for warmer climates. Not as "hot" as wool, but it allows your skin to breath and absorbs moisture.

Again, If there's a need for mittens sometimes there are open fires, or people are sleeping right next to a heater in their homes.... therefore they're at risk for catching on fire.

Certainly not _as often_ as in colder climates, but the are more at risk for that than the average person. But it happens.

I love how people "_play the odds_" with other people's safety and lives.

Hey, but if one can save .50￠ on a skein, then their lives and safety are worth it I guess.

And we've already been through this "easy to wash and dry" crap.

Superwash wool/cotton is perfectly easy to wash and dry.

Yes, I'm sure there are some shelters who "recommend" acrylic. Sometimes the people running the shelters are clueless and ignorant too.


----------



## lorraine 55

The first post was about the price of yarn. Nothing was said about charity knitting , natural fibers versus acrylic etc. People who want to post should stick to the topic !


----------



## Cyber Granny

Lorraine; well said


----------



## tbforest

This thread is what I imagine a session of congress to be like..... 

To the original poster. I agree but think of other things you buy. The price of everything is going up up up! I stood in the grocery store looking at a shelf in shock while I looked at all the items, thinking, there must be a mistake! My daughter was waiting for me in another aisle and asked what took me so long.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

lorraine 55 said:


> The first post was about the price of yarn. Nothing was said about charity knitting , natural fibers versus acrylic etc. People who want to post should stick to the topic !


And from that umpteen people told their stories of how they use the cheapest yarn possible for charity and the topic evolved from there.

That's what happens in discussions, they evolve.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

maryann1701 said:


> I classify myself as disadvantaged, living on a fixed pension. Will all these knitters, who's mouths are bigger than purse or stash, knit me a jersey in their best wool, I am a size 44, I thank you in advance.


Or you could stop buying the plastic yarn and buy superwash wool on sale for about the same price.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

kwright said:


> FYI The price of Red Heart Super Saver is $1.99 with a 40% off coupon at the LYS when I buy one skein. Regular price runs $3.99.
> 
> Wool makes me itch. I was given a skein of wool as a gift, and gave it to someone as I could not use it. When you physically cannot use one type of yarn, find one you can.


What I've found is that 9 times out of 10, people who say "wool makes them itch", are surprised when their told a soft sweater they're wearing is made of wool.

The wool today is not your great grandmother's wool and allergies to wool are relatively rare.

Some people THINK they're made itchy by wool, but most of the time it's Psychosomatic.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> Or maybe you're narrow minded for giving things to people "who are in a bad way", made of high maintenance materials that need hand washing. Do you really believe a sick person feels like hand washing everything just to make you feel better about yourself?


Who here EVER said that people should be knitting something that should be hand washed?

NO ONE.

Or are you so behind the times that you're not aware of "superwash"???


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> Good grief! Okay, I'm giving up on you. You obviously need professional help. :/


Good grief, YOU"RE the one that was foolish enough to think that _anyone_ is knitting fine wool pieces that needs to be handwashed.

How about reading the thread or taking some reading comprehension classes before you chime in?


----------



## Cyber Granny

Blueschanteuse; why are you being nasty to me, are you one of them that should be knitting me a jersey ?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> Reading comprehension one oh one could be your friend!
> 
> What she SAID WAS.... Acrylic is warmer than a bare head or hands. NOT that it is warmer than wool.


Well, that's stupid. Because if anyone is clueless enough to think that a shelter can run to the dollar store and find a bunch of acrylic mittens for 50 cents a piece. Hell, often these dollar stores will donate them.

No poor person NEEEEDS an acrylic HANDKNIT mitten.

No indigent person goes without mittens, there are plenty to be found and given if the "low bar" is cheap acrylic mittens (_usually produces with Chinese slave labor_)

The question is whether they're going to actually have WARM mittens or not. The question is whether they're going to be wearing DANGEROUS mittens or not.


----------



## Frogsong

BluesChanteuse said:


> Good grief, YOU"RE the one that was foolish enough to think that _anyone_ is knitting fine wool pieces that needs to be handwashed.
> 
> How about reading the thread or taking some reading comprehension classes before you chime in?


LOL... Listen lady. People like you don't bother me. You're just a blather. Why don't you give it a rest? You're sounding more and more insecure as the thread goes on.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> Some people are allergic to wool. How are you going to feel when your wool hat causes someone to go into anaphylactic shock? It could happen, so your wool charity items are evil! Evil I say! And you are trying to murder innocent people!!


Please go back and read the thread. You're rehashing bullcrap that's already been debunked.

VERY few people are actually allergic to wool VERY VERY VERY few. That's bull crap and ignorant. If it was common people would be going into prophylactic constantly because lanolin is so prevalent in so many products.

However, when a Canadian city regulated the charity knitwear in their town and insisted on only natural fibers, the incidents of frostbite in the emergency was CUT IN HALF.

SOME people can have "sensitive skin" to wool, but even THAT is relatively rare given that wool isn't produced as it used to be. Today's wool is not your grandmother's wool and is RARELY irritating to the skin.

Most people who CLAIM their skin is sensitive, are really more often psychosomatic than anything else.


----------



## misellen

I think it is time for people to stop responding to someone who obviously has mental health problems. You are aggravating an existing condition and nothing will be resolved by it.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lablover said:


> All this talk of charity. Some of the posters should be more charitable to their fellow KPer's and not try so hard to impress everyone with their opinion. When you are correct you need not repeat your opinion so harshly and with belittling comments to others. No one here is stupid. Charity begins at home.


Do you feel better now that you've added YOUR post that was made to impress everyone with YOUR opinion, or is hypocrisy comfortable for you?


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Good grief, YOU"RE the one that was foolish enough to think that _anyone_ is knitting fine wool pieces that needs to be handwashed.
> 
> How about reading the thread or taking some reading comprehension classes before you chime in?


I'm thinking you are the one who is having a hard time comprehending the fact that everyone does not want to knit with wool. What about that don't you understand?

I knit myself a perfectly lovely sweater last year out of some wonderful superwash. I love it, but it is HOT! About the only time I will be able to wear it is maybe February.

You have posted ad nauseam about the dangers of acrylic and your preferences. You seem to think that the KP members can't read and comprehend what you post, so you keep posting the same thoughts over and over and over ... how many times so far on this very thread?

You have made your opinion and preferences quite clear so there is no need to keep beating the dead horse. We all know how you feel and we will all make our own choices as to how and what we knit. You cannot force or guilt anyone to come to your way of thinking.

You are a fairly new member here and maybe you don't know how this forum works, but is for learning and support. If we have something to share, we share it ... then we don't try to browbeat all the members to think like we do. Do you do that IRL too? I can only imagine.

And then when someone disagrees with you you turn to nastiness and name calling. Like on the third grade playground. Maybe it's time for you to take a time out.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> LOL... Listen lady. People like you don't bother me. You're just a blather. Why don't you give it a rest? You're sounding more and more insecure as the thread goes on.


When you've actually READ the thread and learned some facts, let us know.

I might blather, but I blather facts.

You just blather ignorance not only to the content of the previous discussion on this thread but basic facts on these fibers.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> I'm thinking you are the one who is having a hard time comprehending the fact that everyone does not want to knit with wool. What about that don't you understand?


Oh, I understand that some don't want to knit with wool.

Just letting ya all know that when you knit for "charity" with plastic yarn, you're not doing the needy any favors, if anything you're endangering them.

Either you CARE about the needs of the recipients of your "charity" _or you don't._

Those who'd prefer to make this about ME are making it very clear that the latter is true.

I might be the "witch" of this board, but even someone as "nasty" as I would NEVER subject poor people to plastic yarn. As rotten as you think I am, at least I'm not THAT rotten. Even I won't cross THAT selfish, thoughtless line.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> You have made your opinion and preferences quite clear so there is no need to keep beating the dead horse.


Then stop responding and then I won't feel the need to respond to your ignorant statements.

Easy peasy.


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Then stop responding and then I won't feel the need to respond to your ignorant statements.
> 
> Easy peasy.


Done! You aren't worth my time.

And BTW, we have yet to see any documentation from you as to the frequency of these horrible burns that people sustain from the acrylic yarns. If you are that passionate about it, then give us some REAL facts and instances to look at. How often has it happened? How frequently? Do you know anyone it has happened to? (except for Courier's BIL I, personally have never heard of it happening to anyone) Have you interviewed the recipients of the charity knitting to see if they would rather go with nothing than to chance the horrid acrylic yarn?

Rather than coming on here and alienating most of the members of KP, you might think about backing yourself up with real documented facts.


----------



## knitnut86

peachy51 said:


> I'm thinking you are the one who is having a hard time comprehending the fact that everyone does not want to knit with wool. What about that don't you understand?
> 
> I knit myself a perfectly lovely sweater last year out of some wonderful superwash. I love it, but it is HOT! About the only time I will be able to wear it is maybe February.
> 
> You have post ad nauseam about the dangers of acrylic and your preferences. You seem to think that the KP members can't read and comprehend what you post, so you keep posting the same thoughts over and over and over ... how many times so far on this very thread?
> 
> You have made your opinion and preferences quite clear so there is no need to keep beating the dead horse. We all know how you feel and we will all make our own choices as to how and what we knit. You cannot force or guilt anyone to come to your way of thinking.
> 
> You are a fairly new member here and maybe you don't know how this forum works, but is for learning and support. If we have something to share, we share it ... then we don't try to browbeat all the members to think like we do. Do you do that IRL too? I can only imagine.
> 
> And then when someone disagrees with you you turn to nastiness and name calling. Like on the third grade playground. Maybe it's time for you to take a time out.


very well said and I'm sure agreed by most on this thread!!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## courier770

The price of yarn is directly related to the fiber from which it is spun from. Acrylic is generally the least expensive but as has been pointed out, this can be a poor choice (safety wise).

The process of turning "natural fibers" into yarn is labor intensive and everyone involved in the process should be paid fairly for their work.

Not all natural fibers have to be hand washed. One of the most expensive yarns you can purchase is spun from Bison down but it is very easy care. Another myth bites the dust! 

Everyone has to live within their budget but I also believe in getting the most "bang for your buck". Natural fibers offer more warmth in cold climates and they also offer more "breath ability" in warmer climates. I'm not going to waste money knitting an item that's going to sit in a drawer or closet and not used because it doesn't provide the wearer what they need.

Most homeless people never use a washing machine, they simply don't have access to them and homeless shelters generally do not offer laundry service. A bed, yes! A meal, yes! Laundry service, NO! So the laundering needs of the homeless are really not an issue. Providing them with clothing that protects them from the elements is though. Providing items for causes is great and I am fully aware that budget constraints are to be taken into consideration.

The price of yarn, natural of synthetic, includes approximately a 100% retail mark up. That means if you purchase a skein of yarn for $4.00, the retailer paid $2.00 for it..that's the norm in the retail industry. Specialty retailers (like yarn shops) generally have a lower percentage of mark up. You pay the shop less and the producer(s) a little more.

So let's think about this. High volume producers (let's pick Red Heart) are able to purchase their "raw materials" at a lower price because they purchase in massive volume. While smaller producers pay a higher price for their raw materials and are likely NOT to have their yarns in "big box" stores because their profit margin is thinner and they cannot offer "volume discounting". 

Meanwhile those big box stores have driven many small business out of business.

Personally I'd prefer to support the smaller business'. These tend to be smaller operations (either retail or manufacturing), and yes you will pay a little more to purchase their products or frequent their stores. I'd rather do that than see low wage employees being forced to seek assistance to feed their families...just my take on the whole thing. You don't have to agree with me.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> Done! You aren't worth my time.


And there you are... responding AGAIN!!

Not only that... but you're blathering on even MORE::::



peachy51 said:


> And BTW, we have yet to see any documentation from you as to the frequency of these horrible burns that people sustain from the acrylic yarns.


First of all, that was already done by another poster. Not to mention there's been videos posted of how the plastic yarn flares up and melts.

This is not some sort of "contested" scientific theory.

Arguing this with you is akin with "proving" to you that water is wet.

Which gets back to my original comments about the clueless expecting to be spoonfed.

What you seem to be arguing is that it's ok to "gamble" with poor people's safety.

You want to know the specific numbers so you can see just how you want to put their safety at risk?

What, are you gonna hand them the plastic mittens and say _"Oh, I've done the research, and there's only an 14% chance you'll get caught in a fire, and I didn't want to spend an extra 50 cents on yarn, so I decided, you're only a poor person, and the 50cents was "worth it" rather than knit you 99% safer mittens_."

Holy God. The selfish manner some people "reason" is shocking sometimes.

Again, call me nasty all you want, but I'm not so nasty as to play that sort of "numbers game" with the needy's safety.

Here's some tests though if you're ACTUALLY interested in learning


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> First of all, that was already done by another poster. Not to mention there's been videos posted of how the plastic yarn flares up and melts.
> 
> This is not some sort of "contested" scientific theory.
> 
> Arguing this with you is akin with "proving" to you that water is wet.
> 
> Which gets back to my original comments about the clueless expecting to be spoonfed.
> 
> What you seem to be arguing is that it's ok to "gamble" with poor people's safety.
> 
> You want to know the specific numbers so you can see just how you want to put their safety at risk?
> 
> What, are you gonna hand them the plastic mittens and say _"Oh, I've done the research, and there's only an 14% chance you'll get caught in a fire, and I didn't want to spend an extra 50 cents on yarn, so I decided, you're only a poor person, and the 50cents was "worth it" rather than knit you 99% safer mittens_."
> 
> Holy God. The selfish manner some people "reason" is shocking sometimes.
> 
> Again, call me nasty all you want, but I'm not so nasty as to play that sort of "numbers game" with the needy's safety.
> 
> Here's some tests though if you're ACTUALLY interested in learning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I need to slap myself for responding to you again, but here it is ... did you read my post? did you comprehend what it said?
> 
> No one is arguing that acrylic burns ... duh? As does most other fiber. Because you know, most everything except metal burns and I'm sure you don't live in and use EVERYTHING metal.
> 
> The facts and documentation I asked you to provide is referring to people being injured because of wearing the acrylic yarn. Do you have any links, documentation, facts at all of any instances of this occurrence? How frequently it has happened. Have you actually researched this happening? Have you spoken to Fire Depts. about how many times they have encountered this? (This one I have done and so far, nada).
> 
> So back up your scare tactics with actual facts and statistics showing injuries received.


----------



## Frogsong

What a drama queen! LOL


----------



## blessedinMO

Frogsong said:


> What a drama queen! LOL


I sadly think it is more than that....


----------



## Frogsong

blessedinMO said:


> I sadly think it is more than that....


I agree, and I can't, in all honesty, continue to argue with someone who so obviously isn't all there.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.

However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> I sadly think it is more than that....


I think you're right. I have been thinking that for a while now and have even brought it up in a post, but no one responded. Also sadly, we have a couple of the pro-acrylic people who are not much better or they would let it go.


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Or you could stop buying the plastic yarn and buy superwash wool on sale for about the same price.


I choose my own yarn - you and Courier are really enjoying mixing it up!. I won't fight with you. I will use what I want to use and I would suggest the more you rant and rave about it the less we wlll listen to you.


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> I think you're right. I have been thinking that for a while now and have even brought it up in a post, but no one responded. Also sadly, we have a couple of the pro-acrylic people who are not much better or they would let it go.


I think I have become somewhat familiar with some of the names, so that when they start their thing, I just move on.


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Who here EVER said that people should be knitting something that should be hand washed?
> 
> NO ONE.
> 
> Or are you so behind the times that you're not aware of "superwash"???


you have made your point --please let it go.


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Well, that's stupid. Because if anyone is clueless enough to think that a shelter can run to the dollar store and find a bunch of acrylic mittens for 50 cents a piece. Hell, often these dollar stores will donate them.
> 
> No poor person NEEEEDS an acrylic HANDKNIT mitten.
> 
> No indigent person goes without mittens, there are plenty to be found and given if the "low bar" is cheap acrylic mittens (_usually produces with Chinese slave labor_)
> 
> The question is whether they're going to actually have WARM mittens or not. The question is whether they're going to be wearing DANGEROUS mittens or not.


I have lived in a cold climate nearly all my life. I have been making cold weather wear for people for years. I have used acrylic for a lot of my donations as that is what is requested because of the easy way it can be kept clean without shrinkage. I wear acrylic mittens, hats, scarves, socks and cowls as much as I wear wool based yarns -- both keep me warm . My mittens are very warm. you really don't know what you are talking about. you are welcome to use whatever yarn you wish -- but all we ask is that you don't attack us for using the yarn WE like. It really is not your business what yarn any other people use and you are managing to antagonize lots of people -- is that your intention?? lets let it go.


----------



## peachy51

misellen said:


> I think you're right. I have been thinking that for a while now and have even brought it up in a post, but no one responded. Also sadly, we have a couple of the pro-acrylic people who are not much better or they would let it go.


I think she's right too.

And, just for the record, I am not pro anything ... I love all yarn and use wool, alpaca, cotton, linen, acrylic ... whatever I think will be the ideal for the pattern I am making ... which is what I think most of us do.  For example, right now I am knitting a luscious pair of alpaca gloves for a friend who did some work for me, but these gloves would also be nice with acrylic yarn.


----------



## courier770

I work outside, all year long, in Colorado, previously in the Chicago area. Let me tell you acrylic clothing items do NOT keep you warm in winter, not if you have to spend a 10 hour day outdoors. Most of our homeless spend the majority of their day outdoors. 

There's a big difference between going out for a few hours and shopping in the cold and spending the entire day outside. 

I used to think differently when I was a stay at home wife and mom. For the past 15 years, I've spent every winter outside, all day long. The first winter I lost the feeling in my feet more times than I care to remember...because I had inferior socks and boots. I found out the hard way that investing in the right fibers for winter wear is very important.


----------



## courier770

I AM the sister in law of a man who was severely burned when his acrylic shirt caught fire in a home fire. 

What happened was the hem edge of his shirt caught fire and quickly melted t he shirt into a liquid mass that welded into his armpit area. I was there that day. The EMT's were one scene quickly but as quick as they were..the shirt melted into his skin. I'll never forget his horrific screams in the ER as that mass of molten Acrylic was removed. He underwent several painful skin grafts and never regained full use of that arm. 

If you are looking for websites that will give you specific information...well good luck, I'm not sure that they exist. Though burn tests on fibers can be looked up.

As for my brother in law..he lost his life, not due to the burns but due to the fact t hat he was so used to the "tightness" of his underarm and chest, he missed the signs of lung cancer and passed away just a couple weeks after diagnosis.

Talk to those who work in burn units, talk to family members, like me. When Matt was hospitalized in the burn unit he was NOT the most severely burned patient in the unit...a 3 year old little girl was. She didn't survive her burns.

I changed my knitting habits the day Matt was burned and that happened in 1977!


----------



## Jokim

mwatpon said:


> You are one misguided individual if you cannot see the terrible rudeness and condescending ways of AmyKnits.
> 
> She is at the beginning of all problems on this forum. Go to any topic that has become a spitting match and you will find her starting it. Go to page 3 of this topic.
> 
> Amy also makes the statement that stockinette will not roll. She doesn't know what she's talking about.
> 
> Amy also criticizes people who will not use 12 inch circulars to knit with.
> 
> And someone in this post, someone said that AmyKnits carries a gun. That is a chilling thought.
> 
> She is mean to people. If you support her, then you are the same.
> 
> Think about it.


Obviously, you don't subscribe to the 'Golden Rule"; do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Carrying a gun is legal, with a permit in certain states. Amyknits has posted many, many informative and very well researched issues on KP. I have learned much about improving my knitting from her and I support Amyknits' right to state her opinion. I do not waste my time arguing over small, less important issues. One has to pick one's battles wisely.


----------



## Designer1234

courier770 said:


> I work outside, all year long, in Colorado, previously in the Chicago area. Let me tell you acrylic clothing items do NOT keep you warm in winter, not if you have to spend a 10 hour day outdoors. Most of our homeless spend the majority of their day outdoors.
> 
> There's a big difference between going out for a few hours and shopping in the cold and spending the entire day outside.
> 
> I used to think differently when I was a stay at home wife and mom. For the past 15 years, I've spent every winter outside, all day long. The first winter I lost the feeling in my feet more times than I care to remember...because I had inferior socks and boots. I found out the hard way that investing in the right fibers for winter wear is very important.


I beg to differ I have lived in Alberta - born and raised here -- and my mittens both acrylic and partial wool do keep me and my family and friends warm. Certainly for those who work outside they need work weather clothes. I don't work outside all day, and neither do a lot of other people. We have donated heavy winter gear to the drop in center and other places where the homeless drop in for meals and warmth. I buy the fur lined hats like policemen wear and donate them. It keeps them warm an dry. Wool gets very wet and freezes -ask me how I know -- years and years of living in Alblerta.- I knitted wool hats for my kids and they asked me not to bother as the snow melts or sticks to the wool. they wear acrylic hats under their ski helmets - others wear wool. personal choice.

I am not going to argue any more with you. you just get angrier and angrier and I am not interested. Use your wool no one is suggesting you use that terrible 'stuff' 
just quit being so darned overbearing about it. Courier, why do you feel it necessary to 'take on so many people about so many things-- you seem to enjoy the fight. Well I don't, and a lot of the rest of us don't so leave it alone, Okay??


----------



## peachy51

courier770 said:


> I AM the sister in law of a man who was severely burned when his acrylic shirt caught fire in a home fire.
> 
> What happened was the hem edge of his shirt caught fire and quickly melted t he shirt into a liquid mass that welded into his armpit area. I was there that day. The EMT's were one scene quickly but as quick as they were..the shirt melted into his skin. I'll never forget his horrific screams in the ER as that mass of molten Acrylic was removed. He underwent several painful skin grafts and never regained full use of that arm.
> 
> If you are looking for websites that will give you specific information...well good luck, I'm not sure that they exist. Though burn tests on fibers can be looked up.
> 
> As for my brother in law..he lost his life, not due to the burns but due to the fact t hat he was so used to the "tightness" of his underarm and chest, he missed the signs of lung cancer and passed away just a couple weeks after diagnosis.
> 
> Talk to those who work in burn units, talk to family members, like me. When Matt was hospitalized in the burn unit he was NOT the most severely burned patient in the unit...a 3 year old little girl was. She didn't survive her burns.
> 
> I changed my knitting habits the day Matt was burned and that happened in 1977!


Courier, as I have said before, yours is the only instance of this occurrence I have heard of. And my condolences go out to you and your family.

But I do not believe this is a frequent occurrence and even tho you changed your knitting habits that day, did you also go through your wardrobe and discard all items made from any acrylic fiber? I would imagine that every one of us has in our closet and drawers some acrylic garments.

As I also said before, there is not a product on the market that at least one person has not had a mishap with. If we removed from the market every product that someone has been injured by, we wouldn't have any products out there to buy.

Almost every one of us gets into a vehicle every day ... even tho there were more than 25,000 fatalities last year due to vehicle accidents. That doesn't include the hundreds of thousands of injuries. But we still use our vehicles and put ourselves and everyone else on the road in danger every day.

And if I avoided eating everything that is said to be harmful to our health, I would starve!

As far as the lung cancer ... even tho I have never heard of anyone being burned by the acrylics, I do have much experience with family and friends and lung cancer. Most of those with lung cancer are so far along before they have any inkling that there is a problem, that they are beyond treatment. That is just the nature of lung cancer. So even if your BIL had not been burned and had the scarring, the outcome might not have been any different. That is one of those things we will never know.

So, we all do things and use products that *could* be dangerous every day. Each of us chooses what we will and will not use. It's an individual choice. No one should be chastised because of their choices of the products they buy.

As far as charity knitting is concerned, I still submit that if I had nothing I would be happy to receive anything, regardless of the fabric. It has been intimated on this thread that those who use acrylic to knit with and then donate that knitting to charity are out to kill off all the needy. That is just plain absurd.


----------



## PaKnitter

Designer1234 said:


> I beg to differ I have lived in Alberta - born and raised here -- and my mittens both acrylic and partial wool do keep me and my family and friends warm. Certainly for those who work outside they need work weather clothes. I don't work outside all day, and neither do a lot of other people. I am not going to argue any more with you. you just get angrier and angrier and I am not interested. Use your wool no one is suggesting you use that terrible 'stuff'
> just quit being so darned overbearing about it. Courier, why do you feel it necessary to 'take on so many people about so many things-- you seem to enjoy the fight. Well I don't, and a lot of the rest of us don't so leave it alone, Okay??


We sometimes work out in the cold as long as it is above freezing because we have a small survey business and I wear acrylics and truthfully have never noticed much difference when I wear wool which I have tons of. I get cold in both in the same amount of time so I turn a deaf ear to the choir. 
And I have yet to melt, burn or blow up sitting in the jeep to warm up.
I think Courier is a drama queen who needs to tell her story over and over.
Amyknits has so much to offer but once in awhile she needs to double check herself.
And at the end of the day what does it matter...none of us is going to change our ways for some stranger in cyberspace.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it and who gives a darn really...no one but me.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogsong said:


> What a drama queen! LOL


Call me a drama queen all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that you quite obviously hadn't bothered to read the thread before you chimed in.


----------



## Designer1234

PaKnitter said:


> We sometimes work out in the cold as long as it is above freezing because we have a small survey business and I wear acrylics and truthfully have never noticed much difference when I wear wool which I have tons of. I get cold in both in the same amount of time so I turn a deaf ear to the choir.
> And I have yet to melt, burn or blow up sitting in the jeep to warm up.
> I think Courier is a drama queen who needs to tell her story over and over.
> Amyknits has so much to offer but once in awhile she needs to double check herself.
> And at the end of the day what does it matter...none of us is going to change our ways for some stranger in cyberspace.
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it and who gives a darn really...no one but me.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

You expressed it much better than I did in half the words. 
!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

Last one out, turn out the lights and shut the door!


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Oh, I understand that some don't want to knit with wool.
> 
> Just letting ya all know that when you knit for "charity" with plastic yarn, you're not doing the needy any favors, if anything you're endangering them.
> 
> Either you CARE about the needs of the recipients of your "charity" _or you don't._
> 
> Those who'd prefer to make this about ME are making it very clear that the latter is true.
> 
> I might be the "witch" of this board, but even someone as "nasty" as I would NEVER subject poor people to plastic yarn. As rotten as you think I am, at least I'm not THAT rotten. Even I won't cross THAT selfish, thoughtless line.


I started to answer and then realized that is exactly what you want us to do -- no more rises out of me . thanks anyway


----------



## galaxycraft

margarita night again


----------



## Designer1234

galaxycraft said:


> margarita night again


Pour me one too - I think quite a few of us could use one. 
I get so mad at myself when I let them bait me.

think I will have a nice quiet glass of wine with my honey, and then read a book. good bye everyone!!


----------



## knitnut86

galaxycraft said:


> margarita night again


 :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> margarita night again


Well, thank you, don't mind if I do. I was just halfway out the door.....


----------



## galaxycraft

Designer1234 said:


> Pour me one too - I think quite a few of us could use one.
> I get so mad at myself when I let them bait me.
> 
> think I will have a nice quiet glass of wine with my honey, and then read a book. good bye everyone!!


Have yourself a quiet enjoyable night. :wink:


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> Well, thank you, don't mind if I do. I was just halfway out the door.....


Head on out. We'll meet up somewhere else.


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> I get so mad at myself when I let them bait me.


Me too ... but, alas, sometimes I just *have* to respond when I see someone post something so absurd that I can't stand it. 

I don't even drink, but I think I'll have one with y'all tonight


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Head on out. We'll meet up somewhere else.


I'll just have a Margarita first..burp..thanks & good night!


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> Me too ... but, alas, sometimes I just *have* to respond when I see someone post something so absurd that I can't stand it.
> 
> I don't even drink, but I think I'll have one with y'all tonight


The last wine I had was on my birthday on August 25th! but tonight is a good night for one. Although a margerita sounds better -- (shades of our winters in Arizona when we were snowbirds.) lots of fun :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> The last wine I had was on my birthday on August 25th! but tonight is a good night for one. Although a margerita sounds better -- (shades of our winters in Arizona when we were snowbirds.) lots of fun :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :thumbup:


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Please buy tequila that does not have a worm in the bottom of the bottle. ick


----------



## blessedinMO

No worm! :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> I think she's right too.
> 
> And, just for the record, I am not pro anything ... I love all yarn and use wool, alpaca, cotton, linen, acrylic ... whatever I think will be the ideal for the pattern I am making ... which is what I think most of us do.  For example, right now I am knitting a luscious pair of alpaca gloves for a friend who did some work for me, but these gloves would also be nice with acrylic yarn.


Peachy- that is what I am trying to explain to both of them. they won't listen so I think we should just leave -I just made a cowl in beautiful alpaca wool and it is soft and lovely but I have to be careful of it so wear it on special outings-- the others I wear to the mall or out and about.

in my life I use both - I don't buy on line but the lys is only l0 minutes from here. right now I am felting a cowl, which requires WOOL. I have also this past month knit 4 pairs of felted slippers which require Wool too. I just don't like being lectured to by those who never listen back -- they just rant and rave. Nice to talk to you.


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> The last wine I had was on my birthday on August 25th! but tonight is a good night for one. Although a margerita sounds better -- (shades of our winters in Arizona when we were snowbirds.) lots of fun :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Designer, I knew you were a good egg! My mother's birthday was August 25 too and she was the kindest, sweetest person I ever knew ... everyone loved her.


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Call me a drama queen all you want, but it doesn't erase the fact that you quite obviously hadn't bothered to read the thread before you chimed in.


He or she read it - we all read it - we just don't like being lectured to - okay - there are other people who know a few things too - so let it go


----------



## Dot700

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> You expressed it much better than I did in half the words.
> !!!


I live in the same city as designer1234 and as I look out of my window all I can see is snow and the temperature is 10 degrees below zero. It is cold here and we are in need of mittens and I could care less what they are made of - O just want to stay comfortable.


----------



## Designer1234

blessedinMO said:


> No worm! :thumbup:


definitely no worm and not much salt on the rim either. I used to like Strawberry margaritas but only one! soo good going down but boy one is enough for a none regular drinker.


----------



## Designer1234

Dot700 said:


> I live in the same city as designer1234 and as I look out of my window all I can see is snow and the temperature is 10 degrees below zero. It is cold here and we are in need of mittens and I could care less what they are made of - O just want to stay comfortable.


exactly - suddenly this frustrating thread has turned into a nice place to be - thanks girls, I was really getting my knickers in a knot and that is what they want us to do.

Yes dot -- it is pretty much like winter tonight here. sounds as if we are going to get more this next week. I guess we can't avoid it in this part of the world.

Nice to see someone from home -- actually there are quite a few of us - some get together at the farmer's market once a month -- other end of town from me though but i hope to make it one of these days.

We were going to go to the Cenotaph or the service at the museum but I think we will watch Memorial day services at home . I think it is going to be very chilly.

Were you bothered by the floods? I hope not


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> definitely no worm and not much salt on the rim either. I used to like Strawberry margaritas but only one! soo good going down but boy one is enough for a none regular drinker.


You are so right!. I lived near the Mexican border for 20 yrs. so fond memories!


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> exactly - suddenly this frustrating thread has turned into a nice place to be - thanks girls, I was really getting my knickers in a knot and that is what they want us to do.


We all did. It is just so frustrating. But all's well that ends well....Sweet dreams! Bless


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> Designer, I knew you were a good egg! My mother's birthday was August 25 too and she was the kindest, sweetest person I ever knew ... everyone loved her.


It has been my birthday for more years than I like to acknowledge but I can still get dragged into threads like this one. I just believe and have lived my life feeling that we are individuals and adults and I don't like to be lectured to b y those who think they are experts - when they are likey much younger and know a lot less than we do. grin.


----------



## painthoss

rohohappy said:


> You are one very sick human being.....apparently you thrive on hurting other people.....God has a place for people like you and it wontl be heaven..


[Never mind. Words are useless here.]


----------



## galaxycraft

Designer1234 said:


> It has been my birthday for more years than I like to acknowledge but I can still get dragged into threads like this one. I just believe and have lived my life feeling that we are individuals and adults and I don't like to be lectured to b y those who think they are experts - when they are likey much younger and know a lot less than we do. grin.


Anyone can read and memorize lines from a book, but it is comprehension of the context that counts. :wink:


----------



## knitnut86

Designer1234 said:


> It has been my birthday for more years than I like to acknowledge but I can still get dragged into threads like this one. I just believe and have lived my life feeling that we are individuals and adults and I don't like to be lectured to b y those who think they are experts - when they are likey much younger and know a lot less than we do. grin.


yeah, I feel the same way Designer, I think we have both been knitting longer than some have been breathing!!! LOL And I think it gets colder here than ANYWHERE, last winter it was minus 47 for many days and that is COLD!!! 
:thumbup: :idea:


----------



## Designer1234

blessedinMO said:


> You are so right!. I lived near the Mexican border for 20 yrs. so fond memories!


That sounds interesting - I think the summers might have been a bit hot for this Canadian, but I sure do like the Arizona winters. many good friends and happy memories from Mesa and Yuma


----------



## knitnut86

Designer1234 said:


> That sounds interesting - I think the summers might have been a bit hot for this Canadian, but I sure do like the Arizona winters. many good friends and happy memories from Mesa and Yuma


We go to Yuma in the winter,, in fact leaving on Tuesday for 5 months!! :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

knitnut86 said:


> yeah, I feel the same way Designer, I think we have both been knitting longer than some have been breathing!!! LOL And I think it gets colder here than ANYWHERE, last winter it was minus 47 for many days and that is COLD!!!
> :thumbup: :idea:


Where are you from Knitknut- we didn't get much that cold last year but we have been there done that lots of times over the years. oh I see - Manitoba -- they call it one of the coldest places sometimes -- I only spent one winter there and thought I was coming home to the tropics - grin -- Lived in Winnipeg for the winter when dh was stationed there with the army -- brr- such a cold wind. Edmonton is just about as bad when the wind comes down from the north -- We get the Chinook Winds which give us a break sometimes. Nice to finally talk to you i have seen your posts often.
That is what ticks me off - they don't know what they are talking about a lot of the time. and it is the immovability(???) that gets to me. They never accept anyone elses opinions but their own and they treat others like children. I haven't been a child for a long long time and I bet I could have babysat them. oh well.  :shock: :shock:


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> I think I have become somewhat familiar with some of the names, so that when they start their thing, I just move on.


I'm the same, I recognize some of them. This is the first time I have run into the Blue person but I will remember her in future. It's best to avoid their posts. Sick minds.


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> That sounds interesting - I think the summers might have been a bit hot for this Canadian, but I sure do like the Arizona winters. many good friends and happy memories from Mesa and Yuma


Yes. We used to go to Yuma to feel 'the heat'. I lived in SD for 20 years.


----------



## Irene P

misellen said:


> I'm the same, I recognize some of them. This is the first time I have run into the Blue person but I will remember her in future. It's best to avoid their posts. Sick minds.


I cannot help but wonder who she really is mad at.


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> It has been my birthday for more years than I like to acknowledge but I can still get dragged into threads like this one. I just believe and have lived my life feeling that we are individuals and adults and I don't like to be lectured to b y those who think they are experts - when they are likey much younger and know a lot less than we do. grin.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> I'm the same, I recognize some of them. This is the first time I have run into the Blue person but I will remember her in future. It's best to avoid their posts. Sick minds.


Yes. Very.


----------



## misellen

This has simply become downright silly now. All of you need to give it a rest.

I'm gone.


----------



## blessedinMO

Irene-KnittingParadise.com said:


> I cannot help but wonder who she really is mad at.


I think she has some serious problems.


----------



## knitnut86

Designer, 

I live north of Wpg Manitoba and it gets plenty cold here... last year we went south on Boxing day and when we left our driveway the van was registering the temp outside at minus 38 degrees , needless to say, we were glad to be heading down south. Last year was a TERRIBLE winter here, lots of snow and COLD!!! Hopefully all with have a better winter here this year. We leave on Tuesday to head down south, just hope we have good weather on the way down.


----------



## Designer1234

misellen said:


> I'm the same, I recognize some of them. This is the first time I have run into the Blue person but I will remember her in future. It's best to avoid their posts. Sick minds.


I usually do too but a woman nearly left KP because of the posts here and I came and read and before i knew it was right in the middle of it. Usually I don't allow myself to 'bite' but it was the superior attitude that gets to me --

I will add her to my list to avoid unless someone is hurt by their posts once again . I don't believe in letting them bully without making sure that new people don't have to pay attention to those who 'know everything'. I am still learning and doing - and mainly learning through my work with the workshops -- so many talented peoples who share their knowledge rather than talk down to people. oh well. It has been nice to have a visit with you - and now I have met new friends. Shirley


----------



## courier770

I'm sorry if you dont understand my late brother in laws story. He was horrifically burned and suffered life long pain, pain that was not recognized as being due to lung cancer because of the horrible burns he suffered that day, as a young man. I don't expect most people to understand or even feel a bit of compassion but I had hoped that sharing my family story might make a difference. How silly of me.

You may not care what happened to Matt, you may not care what happened to the people in theburn unit with him..but I do and I don't want to see these things happen to anyone else..especially YOUR family members. Many of us take the time to share these heatbreaking stores in the hope that others will lean from them. If you chose to close your eyes...your business.


----------



## knitnut86

courier770 said:


> I'm sorry if you dont understand my late brother in laws story. He was horrifically burned and suffered life long pain, pain that was not recognized as being due to lung cancer because of the horrible burns he suffered that day, as a young man. I don't expect most people to understand or even feel a bit of compassion but I had hoped that sharing my family story might make a difference. How silly of me.
> 
> You may not care what happened to Matt, you may not care what happened to the people in theburn unit with him..but I do and I don't want to see these things happen to anyone else..especially YOUR family members. Many of us take the time to share these heatbreaking stores in the hope that others will lean from them. If you chose to close your eyes...your business.


Sorry for you loss but we have heard this story, over and over again at least 3 times in detail on this thread, PLEASE give it a rest already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> I usually do too but a woman nearly left KP because of the posts here and I came and read and before i knew it was right in the middle of it. Usually I don't allow myself to 'bite' but it was the superior attitude that gets to me --
> 
> I will add her to my list to avoid unless someone is hurt by their posts once again . I don't believe in letting them bully without making sure that new people don't have to pay attention to those who 'know everything'. I am still learning and doing - and mainly learning through my work with the workshops -- so many talented peoples who share their knowledge rather than talk down to people. oh well. It has been nice to have a visit with you - and now I have met new friends. Shirley


Good Night Designer. Good Night everyone! Sweet Dreams!


----------



## courier770

So those who have been severely injured are just another "sad story"? Thanks and Ill remember that in the future. It's a shame that the Per yard price of yarn doesn't include the horror stories...but then again if it doesn't affect you..no sleep lost right?


----------



## knitnut86

courier770 said:


> So those who have been severely injured are just another "sad story"? Thanks and Ill remember that in the future. It's a shame that the Per yard price of yarn doesn't include the horror stories...but then again if it doesn't affect you..no sleep lost right?


I didn't say that, it is just that you have ALREADY relayed the story, THREE times in fact, on this same thread, I think everyone has heard it, why do you keep repeating it????? WE that have been on this thread have ALL HEARD IT so let it go!!!!


----------



## painthoss

BobnDejasMom said:


> Please buy tequila that does not have a worm in the bottom of the bottle. ick


They're very flammable. Most people don't appreciate that.

[running and ducking]


----------



## galaxycraft

You just want us to say Oh I am so sorry.............
Not going to get it here.
We have not done anything wrong.
You have played the sympathy card over and over since you have joined and we are tired of the ridicule and belittling and shouting matches.
As we have told folks before that goes on these rants.....
once or twice is enough....we heard you.
Repeating one's self 5,6,7,8 times in one thread; with each one with more and more anger and frustration is indeed a bit over the top.

Own up to your own involvement in the situations, and you and you alone own these responses due to your words.

BTW - your bil was injured at a BBQ, not a home fire as you now make it to seem.


----------



## knitnut86

painthoss said:


> They're very flammable. Most people don't appreciate that.
> 
> [running and ducking]


----------



## courier770

So look at where the "cheap" yarn is being produced...countries like Turkey that utilize child or forced/slave labor...are you proud that you purchase yarn that utilizes child/slave labor? Sorry but cheap yarn will never excuse enslavement..unless you want YOUR grandchildren forced into slave labor...we seem to have a double standard in this county. If the price is cheap enough we don't care if children are forced to work for pennies a day..as long as it's not OUR children or grandchildren.


----------



## blessedinMO

Wowzie.


----------



## peachy51

courier770 said:


> I'm sorry if you dont understand my late brother in laws story. He was horrifically burned and suffered life long pain, pain that was not recognized as being due to lung cancer because of the horrible burns he suffered that day, as a young man. I don't expect most people to understand or even feel a bit of compassion but I had hoped that sharing my family story might make a difference. How silly of me.
> 
> You may not care what happened to Matt, you may not care what happened to the people in theburn unit with him..but I do and I don't want to see these things happen to anyone else..especially YOUR family members. Many of us take the time to share these heatbreaking stores in the hope that others will lean from them. If you chose to close your eyes...your business.


But we DO understand your story ... we have understood it the many times you have told it ... go back and read my response to your post before this one.

That's the way it is!


----------



## galaxycraft

And other one of your rants.
If you want to change the world in what you suspect is unfair child labor, 
I suggest you go to the governmental officials, or better yet go in front of Congress and preach there.
You may create change there.
This is not the place to make changes - nothing we can do but boycott ALL imports.
Not going to happen.
What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
NOT ALL imports are created by force child slavery.
And the ones that have been identified as such, changes are already being made.


----------



## painthoss

blessedinMO said:


> Wowzie.[/q
> 
> Just because we don't fall into lockstep doesn't meant we didn't understand what you wrote, C770.
> 
> Please give that some reflection.


----------



## courier770

I think many of you have closed yo0ur eyes to the labor abuses that go on in other countries. Child labor and forced/slave labor h as long been outlawed in this country. We do not expect young children to carry heavy bales of cotton for pennies a day to support our "craft" habit. Look into this subject..it's appauling that small children are expected to do manual labor to support our "hobby". The photographs are heart breaking. Would you want your grandchildren to live this lifestyle of slavery. I dont care if your are a mother or grandmother in America, Costa Rica or Turkey..it's totally uncecptable. If you cannot afford to knit there are other hobbies that are more affordable...I can point you in the direction of a few.


----------



## Dot700

No, I was not affected by the floods at all. I live in Canyon Meadows and it was like the flood did not happen. For those of you who do not know Calgary had the worst flooding in 100 years at a cost of billions of dollars in June of this year and there are still people out of their homes.


----------



## galaxycraft

courier770 - "If you cannot afford to knit there are other hobbies that are more affordable...I can point you in the direction of a few."
..........
So now you want us to give up our yarn crafts because we do not use locally American grown and produced yarns.


----------



## Dot700

galaxycraft said:


> courier770 - "If you cannot afford to knit there are other hobbies that are more affordable...I can point you in the direction of a few."
> ..........
> So now you want us to give up our yarn crafts because we do not use locally American grown and produced yarns.


Please do not give her the satisfaction of a reply. I cannot imagine what it must be like to live your life wanting to confront people all the time.


----------



## Mary Su 2

courier770 said:


> I think many of you have closed yo0ur eyes to the labor abuses that go on in other countries. Child labor and forced/slave labor h as long been outlawed in this country. We do not expect young children to carry heavy bales of cotton for pennies a day to support our "craft" habit. Look into this subject..it's appauling that small children are expected to do manual labor to support our "hobby". The photographs are heart breaking. Would you want your grandchildren to live this lifestyle of slavery. I dont care if your are a mother or grandmother in America, Costa Rica or Turkey..it's totally uncecptable. If you cannot afford to knit there are other hobbies that are more affordable...I can point you in the direction of a few.


Many of us know about and do care about these children, but we are not the ones enslaving them!! How about what is going on in your own back yard??? How many young people, mainly girls are brought from Costa Rica or Turkey or any of the Eastern European countries or Philippines or Asia and taken from a life of poverty and promised a better life in your country or mine, only to be brought here and kept in worse conditions than many farmers keep their cattle!!! They are forced to work as sex slaves right here in America and Canada, or any of the 'developed nations'!! Or do you stop caring what happens to these 'poor children' as soon as they hit the shores of North America!!!


----------



## courier770

I['ve been knitting for nearly 50 years now and I've taken great chances on unique yarns...always worth the price! FYI, I'm very involved on the local level. Don't assume that everyone isn't up on these issues. Given that I am actively involed with out local police, I'mvery aware of sex crimes i my area...are you?


----------



## knitnut86

courier770 said:


> I['ve been knitting for nearly 50 years now and I've taken great chances on unique yarns...always worth the price! FYI, I'm very involved on the local level. Don't assume that everyone isn't up on these issues.


Well, if you have been knitting for that long, you would think you would be old enough to know how to behave on a KNITTING forum and how to show respect to other people and not try and cram your idealism down everyone's throats. this forum isn't about "slave children, etc,." it is about knitting and friendship between knitters, neither of which you are promoting with your constant rants.


----------



## knitnut86

Hey Mary Su, what is your latest knitting project???


----------



## Mary Su 2

knitnut86 said:


> Hey Mary Su, what is your latest knitting project???


Probably some hats for the grandchildren of a close friend of mine. And then maybe a sweater for my silly poodle!


----------



## knitnut86

I've been knitting doll clothes lately. I really enjoy those, size 2 needles and fine yarn!!! I did a bunch of infinity scarves and mitt sets for a craft sale here a couple of weeks ago and sold them before the sale!! :lol:


----------



## BobnDejasMom

blessedinMO said:


> Yes. We used to go to Yuma to feel 'the heat'. I lived in SD for 20 years.


Where in SD? I have lived all over the state.


----------



## Mary Su 2

courier770 said:


> I['ve been knitting for nearly 50 years now and I've taken great chances on unique yarns...always worth the price! FYI, I'm very involved on the local level. Don't assume that everyone isn't up on these issues. Given that I am actively involed with out local police, I'mvery aware of sex crimes i my area...are you?


DUH!!! I'm the one that brought the issue of the sex slaves in our countries!!! How could I do that if I wasn't 'aware' of them???? 
Man, some people just want to keep repeating their own stories over and over again, but they never really read or understand what anyone else says!!!


----------



## courier770

I suppose those of you who never had a family member horrifically burned can easily discount how horrid it is to go through such and ordeal and I pray you never will have to live thorugh such an ordeal..it's always easier to hear about someone else going through it than having to live thourgh it yourself. Matt's horrific burns had a true effect on me but obviously it had no effect on others..such a shame. He was the kindest and gentlest of souls. I'm sorry y9ou never got to meet him.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

knitnut86 said:


> I've been knitting doll clothes lately. I really enjoy those, size 2 needles and fine yarn!!! I did a bunch of infinity scarves and mitt sets for a craft sale here a couple of weeks ago and sold them before the sale!! :lol:


Do you use dpn or circulars, or do you knit the pieces flat and seam them? I have never made doll clothes. I'm not a fan of small needles or fine yarn. It seems so hard to work with.


----------



## courier770

OH my how my brother in law was disfigured is now a bone of contention...you have to be kidding me. He was horribly disfigured in 1978 and the exact details are not all that important but thank you for for your condolences on how badly he was burned, how his life was changed forever. I miss him every day. You may not give a damn about what happend to him but is story is a common one. I'm so sorry that you lack simple compassion.


----------



## blessedinMO

BobnDejasMom said:


> Where in SD? I have lived all over the state.


North County SD, Poway, kids lived in Rancho Bernardo


----------



## knitnut86

I use small dp and some are knit in pieces and sewn but some are in one piece. I like working with the small needles, I just use the small short sock type needles, they are easier to handle for me.


----------



## knitnut86

blessedinMO said:


> North County SD, Poway, kids lived in Rancho Bernardo


is that anywhere near Mitchell or Murdo???


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> is that anywhere near Mitchell or Murdo???


No. Way South.


----------



## Mary Su 2

knitnut86 said:


> I've been knitting doll clothes lately. I really enjoy those, size 2 needles and fine yarn!!! I did a bunch of infinity scarves and mitt sets for a craft sale here a couple of weeks ago and sold them before the sale!! :lol:


I just moved into a new home about 5 weeks ago, so between the packing there and unpacking here, I haven't really done very much knitting for quite a while!! Anytime now I'm going to get through enough of these boxes to get down to some serious knitting!! I have always loved lacy patterns, and knit most of my sweaters that way. Now I can't wait until I have a nice little cozy spot all ready for me to sit and really concentrate on one of those beautiful lace shawls!! One of the good things about moving was finding some really nice yarns in my stash that I had forgotten about!! But the one large cone of cotton that I had sitting right where I would always know where it was, so I could make something with it first was thrown in the dumpster ON PURPOSE by my SIL!!! I saw her pick it up twice, and twice I told her to PUT THAT DOWN, but there were 3 of them there and after they left I noticed that the cotton was gone!! I got up early the next morning to see if I could get it out of the dumpster before it was picked up, and I found 3 never used leather purses, a crystal candle holder, and a few other things, but not the yarn!! It was buried too deep under the things that did belong in the dumpster. It was a sports weight cotton in a cone that was at least 1 1/2 to 2 pounds!!! And it was the most gorgeous fuchsia colour!!! It still breaks my heart to lose it!! I can't afford to replace it! But then it gets better!!! About a week later my DB and his wife convinced me to call the 'Got-Junk' people to take away more things, including my old couch. There were about a dozen pillow on that couch that I put into 2 baskets and told the guys to NOT take them!! 8 of them were hand embroidered by me or my Mom. When I wasn't paying attention, my SIL had them thrown out with the junk!!! 
Well, you'll think twice about asking me a simple question again, won't you??? Lol I can go off on a rant sometimes!! I'll feel better when I get to work on that first shawl!!!
I love working with fine yarns!! But I really haven't done anything to sell, except when someone sees me wearing something they like and give me money for it!!


----------



## ladysjk

Sorry if I let my fellow knitters down by stooping to enter this conversation, I swear I tried, I even sat on my own hands.....

Courier, courier courier.....I am the one who lived through it, you lived it 2nd hand..I have worked in burn units, I have seen what fire does, and Of course it effected you, but really, who are you to think that no one has lived through it or watched someone else go through it....Look we all have something...all of us, an emotional scar,mental or physical..we all have something.

What is different, is most of us look for the good in life, not the bad. We do not sit and dwell on things we can not change...we accept, what life has given us. This is what I am trying to say...You can choose to make things horrible for your self..or..to learn whatever lesson there was in whatever experience you had, and try to do better, be better, and rise above it...

You are stuck on this, stuck, I have seen so many of your posts that you throw some kind of poor me in, that it really doesn't hold value anymore. I have seen your hurtful posts and ignored you, until I you hit me in the face....but you know what I realized life is a lesson, and the lesson I learned from this...is I should feel pity for you, not because of what you have experienced, but because you are so stuck in yesterday, that you can not live today.

I am now leaving again, but you will not win this battle, you will only continue to alienate people. I will not be baited by you, or the others on here, ever again. I will though stick my nose in to stand up for those you attack. Only I hope I can do it with more dignity and grace.


----------



## knitnut86

ouch, sorry to hear about your cotton yarn.... i would have cried... that is a LOT of yarn!!! I currently have about 45 Rubbermaid totes in the garage storage room full of yarn, some 100% wool, so alpaca and some mohair blends and of course acrylics. I have it inventoried as to what is in what bin but i am determined to use a lot of it this winter, I want to knit some baby layettes etc. as I am in the summer market here and thought they might sell well.


----------



## peachy51

ladysjk said:


> Sorry if I let my fellow knitters down by stooping to enter this conversation, I swear I tried, I even sat on my own hands.....
> 
> Courier, courier courier.....I am the one who lived through it, you lived it 2nd hand..I have worked in burn units, I have seen what fire does, and Of course it effected you, but really, who are you to think that no one has lived through it or watched someone else go through it....Look we all have something...all of us, an emotional scar,mental or physical..we all have something.
> 
> What is different, is most of us look for the good in life, not the bad. We do not sit and dwell on things we can not change...we accept, what life has given us. This is what I am trying to say...You can choose to make things horrible for your self..or..to learn whatever lesson there was in whatever experience you had, and try to do better, be better, and rise above it...
> 
> You are stuck on this, stuck, I have seen so many of your posts that you throw some kind of poor me in, that it really doesn't hold value anymore. I have seen your hurtful posts and ignored you, until I you hit me in the face....but you know what I realized life is a lesson, and the lesson I learned from this...is I should feel pity for you, not because of what you have experienced, but because you are so stuck in yesterday, that you can not live today.
> 
> I am now leaving again, but you will not win this battle, you will only continue to alienate people. I will not be baited by you, or the others on here, ever again. I will though stick my nose in to stand up for those you attack. Only I hope I can do it with more dignity and grace.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Mary Su 2

courier770 said:


> I suppose those of you who never had a family member horrifically burned can easily discount how horrid it is to go through such and ordeal and I pray you never will have to live thorugh such an ordeal..it's always easier to hear about someone else going through it than having to live thourgh it yourself. Matt's horrific burns had a true effect on me but obviously it had no effect on others..such a shame. He was the kindest and gentlest of souls. I'm sorry y9ou never got to meet him.


I was 15 years old when I got my first job bringing meals to patients in a hospital. Those of us who were still teenagers liked to work in the children's ward. I remember well a boy about 12 or 13 who came in and had severe burns down on one side and down the leg, because he had some firecrackers in his pocket and someone thought it would be funny to throw a lit match at him!!! So don't assume that none of us have any experience with burn victims!!! You are not the only one!!! I wish I could remember the name of the lady who answered you the other day, who herself had been badly disfigured because she was brave enough to get her friend out of a bonfire!!! 
I think it has been said many times, WE ALL FEEL TERRIBLE FOR WHAT HAPPENED TO YOUR BROTHER IN LAW!!! And as a result to your whole family!!!But at this point you are just milking it to get sympathy for yourself!! And I believe you are dishonouring his memory by using it that way!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 and others,
We should NOT be bullied into revealing our own personal knowledge or tragedies just to satisfy someone's ego or self-pity.
How the other member was taunted into revealing intimate details was so heartbreaking for alot of us to handle.
Enough said for right now - 
Do No Cave To Cyber-Bullying.
If they need to find out more about statistics, this is NOT the place to find them.


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Mary Su 2 and others,
> We should NOT be bullied into revealing our own personal knowledge or tragedies just to satisfy someone's ego or self-pity.
> How the other member was taunted into revealing intimate details was so heartbreaking for alot of us to handle.
> Enough said for right now -
> Do No Cave To Cyber-Bullying.
> If they need to find out more about statistics, this is NOT the place to find them.


I think you just have to let her wind herself down, that's all we can do.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

blessedinMO said:


> North County SD, Poway, kids lived in Rancho Bernardo


Are we both talking about South Dakota?


----------



## sumnerusa

courier770 said:


> I think many of you have closed yo0ur eyes to the labor abuses that go on in other countries. Child labor and forced/slave labor h as long been outlawed in this country. We do not expect young children to carry heavy bales of cotton for pennies a day to support our "craft" habit. Look into this subject..it's appauling that small children are expected to do manual labor to support our "hobby". The photographs are heart breaking. Would you want your grandchildren to live this lifestyle of slavery. I dont care if your are a mother or grandmother in America, Costa Rica or Turkey..it's totally uncecptable. If you cannot afford to knit there are other hobbies that are more affordable...I can point you in the direction of a few.


It's quite apparent that you just like to scrap. Now you are off on another tangent. I think you are the one that needs a drink. You need to calm down.


----------



## galaxycraft

True.


----------



## blessedinMO

BTW I just woke up from a nap. Boy, that Margarita gave me vicious headache. Have to watch that cactus juice.


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> BTW I just woke up from a nap. Boy, that Margarita gave me vicious headache. Have to watch that cactus juice.


Thanks for the giggle through the tears.


----------



## threekidsmom

BobnDejasMom said:


> Do you use dpn or circulars, or do you knit the pieces flat and seam them? I have never made doll clothes. I'm not a fan of small needles or fine yarn. It seems so hard to work with.


It takes some practice to use the smaller needles and finer yarns, but they aren't hard, once you get used to them! Try them, and you might be surprised! :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

BobnDejasMom said:


> Are we both talking about South Dakota?


No. San Diego. San Diego is South of everything in CA.


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Thanks for the giggle through the tears.


Hey, that's what we're here for, after all. :thumbup:


----------



## sumnerusa

knitnut86 said:


> I use small dp and some are knit in pieces and sewn but some are in one piece. I like working with the small needles, I just use the small short sock type needles, they are easier to handle for me.


I admire anyone who can use dpn's. I can knit the smallest of iCord but can't get a pair of socks started to save my soul!


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> BTW I just woke up from a nap. Boy, that Margarita gave me vicious headache. Have to watch that cactus juice.


Unfortunately, there are some here who can't understand what a joke is around here. After we were kidding around yesterday about who was bringing the margaritas and the ice, there were some left behind here (I won't mention names) who really thought that the reason we dared to disagree with them was because we really were drinking!!! I myself haven't had a real drink in around 25 years, but I will have a symbolic drink on-line with you ladies anytime!!!


----------



## knitnut86

sumnerusa said:


> I admire anyone who can use dpn's. I can knit the smallest of iCord but can't get a pair of socks started to save my soul!


You only work on 2 at a time!! :-D they take some getting used to but once you master them I'm sure you'd like them, just have perseverence and don't give up, try them again and take you time, after the first few rows they just sail along like nothing!!


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> Unfortunately, there are some here who can't understand what a joke is around here. After we were kidding around yesterday about who was bringing the margaritas and the ice, there were some left behind here (I won't mention names) who really thought that the reason we dared to disagree with them was because we really were drinking!!! I myself haven't had a real drink in around 25 years, but I will have a symbolic drink on-line with you ladies anytime!!!


LOL. I only WISH the headache was from a real Margarita.


----------



## blessedinMO

Sometimes, when things get strange, Galaxy will announce Margarita time. And we all take an imaginary Margarita break.


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> LOL. I only WISH the headache was from a real Margarita.


I know exactly what you mean!!! And I will say again, that I will join you all for that imaginary Margarita anytime!!! In fact, I was a bartender for many years, so I'm mixing the next batch!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> Unfortunately, there are some here who can't understand what a joke is around here.
> After we were kidding around yesterday about who was bringing the margaritas and the ice, there were some left behind here (I won't mention names)
> who really thought that the reason we dared to disagree with them was because we really were drinking!!!
> I myself haven't had a real drink in around 25 years, but I will have a symbolic drink on-line with you ladies anytime!!!


Really? I missed that part. Now that is hilarious!:XD: :XD: 
I too don't drink. I may have 1 New Year's drink, but that is about it.


----------



## knitnut86

count me in for the Margaurita!!! I don't drink either, never, but a virtual one while on this thread some times would be great!! 
I'll bring the muchies!! :-D


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Really? I missed that part. Now that is hilarious!:XD: :XD:
> I too don't drink. I may have 1 New Year's drink, but that is about it.


Neither do I! But I think Margaritas are a real pretty drink!


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> Really? I missed that part. Now that is hilarious!:XD: :XD:
> I too don't drink. I may have 1 New Year's drink, but that is about it.


I think you can easily guess who that was without me giving you any more hints!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I think you can easily guess who that was without me giving you any more hints!!!


I think so, that is what makes it so hilarious. :lol:


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> I think you can easily guess who that was without me giving you any more hints!!!


When things get as crazy as it got here, ANYTHING will be a reason for havoc. It could just as easily be 'pass the salt'.


----------



## knitnut86

blessedinMO said:


> When things get as crazy as it got here, ANYTHING will be a reason for havoc. It could just as easily be 'pass the salt'.


 :thumbup: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Cyber Granny

Thanks but no thanks, I'll just have tea, too early in the morning for me, 5.20am


----------



## ladysjk

Psst..Psst ..over here,lurking in the shadow...are we still going to drink or not??? I don't drink either, but sometimes I wish I did....and again, keep the salt, pass me the bottle and a lime....and then we can dance on the tables and shoot out the lights!


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> Neither do I! But I think Margaritas are a real pretty drink!


I agree!! It's all in the presentation!!! The salted rim, the wedge of lime on the side of the glass, and don't forget the little umbrella!!!
OOPS!!! Maybe we should forget the little umbrella!!! After all, would we want to be responsible for someone poking themselves in the eye with it and getting hurt???? Lol


----------



## Cyber Granny

Looks like a few have passed out, very quiet on the front


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Psst..Psst ..over here,lurking in the shadow...are we still going to drink or not??? I don't drink either, but sometimes I wish I did....and again, keep the salt, pass me the bottle and a lime....and then we can dance on the tables and shoot out the lights!


LOLOLOL. I think we might be coming around back to normal. :thumbup:


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> Psst..Psst ..over here,lurking in the shadow...are we still going to drink or not??? I don't drink either, but sometimes I wish I did....and again, keep the salt, pass me the bottle and a lime....and then we can dance on the tables and shoot out the lights!


:XD: Thanks, I just choked on my coffee. But you are forgiven. :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

maryann1701 said:


> Thanks but no thanks, I'll just have tea, too early in the morning for me, 5.20am


It's never too early to 'pretend'!!! Live a little!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> :XD: Thanks, I just choked on my coffee. But you are forgiven. :lol:


Oh, golly! Haven't laughed this hard in a couple of days! Thanks all!


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I agree!! It's all in the presentation!!! The salted rim, the wedge of lime on the side of the glass, and don't forget the little umbrella!!!
> OOPS!!!
> Maybe we should forget the little umbrella!!! After all, would we want to be responsible for someone poking themselves in the eye with it and getting hurt???? Lol


We could knit an umbrella - acrylic yarn for easy washing.


----------



## ladysjk

I know we can drink on line, but Hey Galaxy, I don't know if we can cyber CPR..don't choke!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> We could knit an umbrella - acrylic yarn for easy washing.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Cyber Granny

You right, I'll have a double thanks, no umbrella


----------



## ladysjk

I have to have the little umbrella, to keep from sunburning my lips. That's what they're for right???


----------



## blessedinMO

What a nice end to a horrific day. Or two.


----------



## galaxycraft

I'm fine no CPR needed. :wink:


----------



## knitnut86

Make mine a strawberry one.... want to be "healthy" and what the heck, through in the unbrella, I'll live dangerously!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> We could knit an umbrella - acrylic yarn for easy washing.


Now that got me laughing so loud my poor dog was looking at me like I was nuts!!! 
I don't know!! Do you thing it is safe for any of us to be handling 2 pointy sticks, not to mention such a dangerous thing as acrylic yarn, while we are drinking????


----------



## ladysjk

Good, had me worried about ya there for a minute...yes it is a good end to a couple of rough days. In the end, we are surrounded with good friends, and funny lines. It don't get no better than that. I know that is a double negative, but I think it will be forgiven too..I mean hey if Galaxy can forgive me for making her choke, this is forgivable too.


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> Now that got me laughing so loud my poor dog was looking at me like I was nuts!!!
> I don't know!! Do you thing it is safe for any of us to be handling 2 pointy sticks, not to mention such a dangerous thing as acrylic yarn, while we are drinking????


The Transit Authority doesn't think so.....


----------



## ladysjk

I am going to file the ends of my needles, what if I get so good I knit fast and the friction causes my yarn to catch on fire???


----------



## Cyber Granny

After a good few doubles who cares if it is acrylic or wool, right now it all looks the same


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Just so no one uses a swizzle stick. You could put an eye out.


----------



## knitnut86

ladysjk said:


> I am going to file the ends of my needles, what if I get so good I knit fast and the friction causes my yarn to catch on fire???


now THAT made me laugh out loud!!!!!!! :thumbup:


----------



## ladysjk

Knitnut, you may have a strawberry one, or two or twelve..


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> I am going to file the ends of my needles, what if I get so good I knit fast and the friction causes my yarn to catch on fire???


LOLOL. OH the fire! Now you have me choking on my tea!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> I have to have the little umbrella, to keep from sunburning my lips. That's what they're for right???


In all my years of bartending, I never knew that!!! See, we do have so much we can learn on this forum!!! Lol


----------



## ladysjk

BobnDejasMom said:


> Just so no one uses a swizzle stick. You could put an eye out.


I can't even say swizzle stick, let alone find my eye.


----------



## blessedinMO

Thank you all. Life is good!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> I am going to file the ends of my needles, what if I get so good I knit fast and the friction causes my yarn to catch on fire???


Just make sure there are no homeless people near you when that happens!!! Lol


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> Just make sure there are no homeless people near you when that happens!!! Lol


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ladysjk

BlessingMo, you only think that's tea you choked on...


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> BlessingMo, you only think that's tea you choked on...


LOLOL. Who knows anymore! All I know is acrylic is bad.....


----------



## ladysjk

Mary Su 2 said:


> Just make sure there are no homeless people near you when that happens!!! Lol


I am laughing out loud, you are to to funny!!!!


----------



## ladysjk

blessedinMO said:


> LOLOL. Who knows anymore! All I know is acrylic is bad.....


Acrylic..bad...pointy sticks bad...ugh, I don't understand, can repeat that over and over and over again...


----------



## knitnut86

blessedinMO said:


> LOLOL. Who knows anymore! All I know is acrylic is bad.....


  :-D I haven't laughed this much in a while.... it is good for the soul!!! :lol: :lol:


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> :-D I haven't laughed this much in a while.... it is good for the soul!!! :lol: :lol:


Oh, I know! Especially after all this heartburn going on all day.. :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Acrylic..bad...pointy sticks bad...ugh, I don't understand, can repeat that over and over and over again...


LOLOL. I can't stop laughing!


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> Acrylic..bad...pointy sticks bad...ugh, I don't understand, can repeat that over and over and over again...


And don't forget - we are bad.


----------



## kwright

May I come and join the party? My needles are hot from friction and knitting so fast.


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> And don't forget - we are bad.


The worst! Disfiguring the homeless, supporting child brutality..


----------



## knitnut86

Hey, who wants to knit little glass "stockings" to keep our drinks from sweating?????? LOL :-D


----------



## ladysjk

knitnut86 said:


> :-D I haven't laughed this much in a while.... it is good for the soul!!! :lol: :lol:


It is good for the soul, and if you laugh till you cry, the tears may put out the flames. Or are those flammable too??


----------



## Mary Su 2

knitnut86 said:


> :-D I haven't laughed this much in a while.... it is good for the soul!!! :lol: :lol:


We should all get together for margaritas more often!! 
By the way, BlessedinMO, I told you it was all in the presentation!!! What are you doing drinking your margaritas out of a tea cup???


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> I am going to file the ends of my needles, what if I get so good I knit fast and the friction causes my yarn to catch on fire???


Sorry-playing catch up -had to use the rest room
Sure you can file the ends, there is always some who is willing to replace them with our money.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> It is good for the soul, and if you laugh till you cry, the tears may put out the flames. Or are those flammable too??


 :lol: :lol: :lol: OOOH, it hurts!


----------



## knitnut86

They have to be 100% wool though to wick that moisture away!!! :roll:


----------



## ladysjk

kwright said:


> May I come and join the party? My needles are hot from friction and knitting so fast.


that depends...can you hold your liquor,standing on one foot, knitting with acrylic yarn, chanting we are bad we are bad???


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> It is good for the soul, and if you laugh till you cry, the tears may put out the flames. Or are those flammable too??


I guess that depends on how much tequila you've had!!


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> that depends...can you hold your liquor,standing on one foot, knitting with acrylic yarn, chanting we are bad we are bad???


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> that depends...can you hold your liquor,standing on one foot, knitting with acrylic yarn, chanting we are bad we are bad???


Now that's what I call a talented knitter!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> that depends...can you hold your liquor,standing on one foot, knitting with acrylic yarn, chanting we are bad we are bad???


I know I can.
Bottle strapped to my chest with a long straw, and needles clicking away.
Though I may have to have the other foot resting on a chair for balance.


----------



## ladysjk

Mary Su 2 said:


> I guess that depends on how much tequila you've had!!


Ohh, forgot that. Sorry, now mixing alcohol which we know is combustible, with friction from my yarn, gosh excuse me, I'm just gonna grab the fire extinguisher out of the kitchen just to be on the safe side.


----------



## kwright

I'll try, but my computer is over heated from all the alcohol it's ingested, and I can't keep my balance. The needles are getting hotter, and the acrylic yarn is warming up.


----------



## knitnut86

I'm sorry, but the visual of that isn't pretty, especial if I did it.... LOL :XD:


----------



## blessedinMO

This has been the best time I've had in quite a while. Thank you friends, for the stress relief and the wonderful gift of laughter. :thumbup:


----------



## ladysjk

galaxycraft said:


> I know I can.
> Bottle strapped to my chest with a long straw, and needles clicking away.
> Though I may have to have the other foot resting on a chair for balance.


After a few more margaritas, it won't matter if you have a foot on a chair for balance.


----------



## Cyber Granny

Use the ice blocks from the drink to cool everything down.


----------



## knitnut86

Don't forget any hot flashes that may happen with those menopausal!!! LOL


----------



## ladysjk

blessedinMO said:


> This has been the best time I've had in quite a while. Thank you friends, for the stress relief and the wonderful gift of laughter. :thumbup:


Are we drunk enough to sing yet???


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> After a few more margaritas, it won't matter if you have a foot on a chair for balance.


Nope ... Can't feel either foot now.
Drinking through a straw DOES affect you more. Who would have thunk?


----------



## kwright

Y'all have been wonderful. I appreciate it.


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> Don't forget any hot flashes that may happen with those menopausal!!! LOL


Yeah, but they could cause burns, don't you know?????


----------



## knitnut86

WHO was it that had the fire extinquisher??? I'm heating up!!!


----------



## ladysjk

I have the fire extinguisher, now if I can just find the instruction manual.


----------



## galaxycraft

knitnut86 said:


> Don't forget any hot flashes that may happen with those menopausal!!! LOL


You mean it is menopause sweat and not caused by this acrylic hat I am wearing?
Oh Man!


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> You mean it is menopause sweat and not caused by this acrylic hat I am wearing?
> Oh Man!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ladysjk

I am still stuck on you have feet....Kwright will knit you some nice acrylic toe burners as she calls them.


----------



## knitnut86

galaxycraft said:


> You mean it is menopause sweat and not caused by this acrylic hat I am wearing?
> Oh Man!


Now THIS one really cracked me up, hard to type I am laughing so hard I'm crying.

Yeah, glaxcy, it just might be that darn acrylic hat!!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> Now THIS one really cracked me up, hard to type I am laughing so hard I'm crying.
> 
> Yeah, glaxcy, it just might be that darn acrylic hat!!!!


See? You had to wear that acrylic hat. You caused all the trouble here!


----------



## Cyber Granny

What happened to OMG! Yarn prices, who cares what the damn yarn costs right now


----------



## kwright

galaxycraft said:


> You mean it is menopause sweat and not caused by this acrylic hat I am wearing?
> Oh Man!


Oh, I need to take off my acrylic winter coat. We had a cold front Friday. It's 55 degrees, and I'm not used to the cold.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> I need to slap myself for responding to you again, but here it is ... did you read my post? did you comprehend what it said?
> 
> No one is arguing that acrylic burns ... duh? As does most other fiber. Because you know, most everything except metal burns and I'm sure you don't live in and use EVERYTHING metal.
> 
> The facts and documentation I asked you to provide is referring to people being injured because of wearing the acrylic yarn.


Again, which is why I asked "_You want to know the specific numbers so you can see just how you want to put their safety at risk_?"

Now you're arguing that acrylic magically only burns when it's OFF someone's body?

Or is that that you don't believe that indigent people are more at risk for fire?

I mean seriously, anyone with two braincells to rub together understands that this is a genuine danger especially for the indigent who are more likely to be around open fires and rickety space heaters in order to keep warm.

You REALLY are asking if this is a real circumstance?

I bet you're one of those people who thinks we didn't really land on the moon either and want more "proof" that we did.

Really, when there are debates, we all usually start out with premises and argue from there. If I tell you that hot water can scald, you don't start saying you won't believe it until I offer you statistics on whether water is wet or not. ... or if you do, you're either an idiot or purposely trying to divert the conversation.

That's what this is akin to. I've told you that it's not a good idea to give scalding hot water to the indigent to drink and YOU argue "_well water is hydrating and scalding water is better than no water ... besides PROVE to me that hot water can scald the poor... give me the numbers_!"

Like I said, there comes a point where the clueless start asking you to spoon-feed them and "prove" that water is wet.

And you just proved that to be true.

Screw that, I'm not playing your mindless games.



> No one is arguing that acrylic burns ... duh? As does most other fiber.


And there's ANOTHER stupid comment from you. Acrylic does not burn _AS OTHER FIBERS DO_... it burns DIFFERENTLY that is self-evidently more dangerous.

There's no doubt that not only does it flare up, it maintains it's flame even when it's removed from the original flame source. There's is no question that the plastic melts and get's into the crevasses of skin and sticks to the skin and burns deeper and deeper even when the "flame" out out.

_This is obvious information that shouldn't HAVE to be proven to you anymore than it should have to be proven that water is wet._

So stop playing your games and deal with truths. You're just seeming more uninformed in even the most basic of ways when you ask such rudimentary questions.


----------



## Mary Su 2

knitnut86 said:


> Don't forget any hot flashes that may happen with those menopausal!!! LOL


I unfortunately skipped those!!! I could use a few this time of year. My body has a heck of a time adjusting from summer weather to the cold!! 
But then just yesterday someone did condemn me to H**L. I guess I wouldn't complain about being cold there!!


----------



## knitnut86

maryann1701 said:


> What happened to OMG! Yarn prices, who cares what the damn yarn costs right now


yarn, were we talking about yarn????? :lol:


----------



## blessedinMO

kwright said:


> Oh, I need to take off my acrylic winter coat. We had a cold front Friday. It's 55 degrees, and I'm not used to the cold.


OMG!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ladysjk

Uh Oh!! We are getting our hands slapped...quick grab the bottle and run!


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Uh Oh!! We are getting our hands slapped...quick grab the bottle and run!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I unfortunately skipped those!!! I could use a few this time of year. My body has a heck of a time adjusting from summer weather to the cold!!
> But then just yesterday someone did condemn me to H**L. I guess I wouldn't complain about being cold there!!


I bet our needles are banned there, enough flames as is.


----------



## ladysjk

seriously...IT"S BACK!!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> I have the fire extinguisher, now if I can just find the instruction manual.


I think the question is 'can you still read the instruction manual'??


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> seriously...IT"S BACK!!!


I know. I"m ignoring.


----------



## knitnut86

galaxycraft said:


> I know. I"m ignoring.


Me too, the only way!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> seriously...IT"S BACK!!!


I KNOW!!!!!. well if it moves and speaks, I'm going to bed to read some Jane Austen.


----------



## ladysjk

Hell has flames?? OH, so that's where I was, well if that is true, then I will not have to go back, been there, done that, got some nice acrylic yarn..a t shirt and left.


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I think the question is 'can you still read the instruction manual'??


Maybe between all of us we can figure it out.
Anyone read Chinese?


----------



## kwright

Do we need to pick our toys up and go home?


----------



## knitnut86

ladysjk said:


> Hell has flames?? OH, so that's where I was, well if that is true, then I will not have to go back, been there, done that, got some nice acrylic yarn..a t shirt and left.


   :lol: :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> Maybe between all of us we can figure it out.
> Anyone read Chinese?


Neah. Not chinese..


----------



## ladysjk

blessedinMO said:


> I KNOW!!!!!. well if it moves and speaks, I'm going to bed to read some Jane Austen.


It can move and speak, I just don't want to step in it. These are new 100% pure acrylic slippers and we know how expensive acrylic is


----------



## knitnut86

galaxycraft said:


> Maybe between all of us we can figure it out.
> Anyone read Chinese?


Oh, NO..... don't tell me that extinguisher was filled by KIDS!!!!!!! :roll:


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> It can move and speak, I just don't want to step in it. These are new 100% pure acrylic slippers and we know how expensive acrylic is


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> Neah. Not chinese..


Then it must be in English.
Oh I know what my problem is, I don't have my glasses on.


----------



## blessedinMO

Galaxy is right. Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## ladysjk

kwright said:


> Do we need to pick our toys up and go home?


i can not bend over without falling, so I am just going to stay, and leave my toys in the floor.


----------



## kwright

It depends on where you buy it.


----------



## Cyber Granny

Ignor it


----------



## ladysjk

Blessed did you just call me ignorant.. I already admitted that once this week!


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> i can not bend over without falling, so I am just going to stay, and leave my toys in the floor.


We'll hold you up and sing Kumbaya.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Blessed did you just call me ignorant.. I already admitted that once this week!


only if you love acrylic..


----------



## ladysjk

Fire extinguisher, oh yeah, duh must be the tequila. Remind me again why we need the fire what ever, extinguisher is just to hard to spell.


----------



## kwright

Did anyone bring any Rum? I really like it when I am pretending to drink. But, I forgot, my sister could not get over why I never go a hangover that one time she took me drinking. I just went to sleep. That was a hundred years ago.


----------



## galaxycraft

It's off line. :mrgreen:


----------



## galaxycraft

kwright said:


> Did anyone bring any Rum? I really like it when I am pretending to drink. But, I forgot, my sister could not get over why I never go a hangover that one time she took me drinking. I just went to sleep. That was a hundred years ago.


I got some Rum. How do you take it?


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> It's off line. :mrgreen:


Thank Heavens!


----------



## ladysjk

Oh Kumbaya!! or how about, Disco Inferno??


----------



## knitnut86

galaxycraft said:


> It's off line. :mrgreen:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## kwright

Rum and diet coke will do me just fine! Thank you very much.


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> Oh Kumbaya!! or how about, Disco Inferno??


Footloose.


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> Uh Oh!! We are getting our hands slapped...quick grab the bottle and run!


You lead the way!!! We followed you to safety once, we will follow again!!! Let's all meet at the other place!!


----------



## galaxycraft

kwright said:


> Rum and diet coke will do me just fine! Thank you very much.


Comin' right up.


----------



## kwright

Bring the rum...


----------



## ladysjk

Mary Su 2 said:


> You lead the way!!! We followed you to safety once, we will follow again!!! Let's all meet at the other place!!


Galaxy in her magical way, which never ceases to amaze me, has told us it is gone, we are safe, and drinking I don't think we should try going anywhere, give me your keys.


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> You lead the way!!! We followed you to safety once, we will follow again!!! Let's all meet at the other place!!


No need. Left it behind. We are ahead.


----------



## ladysjk

Hello are gone to the other place???


----------



## kwright

Okay, I'll sit on the floor and knit until I fall asleep.


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> Galaxy in her magical way, which never ceases to amaze me, has told us it is gone, we are safe, and drinking I don't think we should try going anywhere, give me your keys.


I must type a lot slower than I think!!! Probably all this tequila! Every time I type anything I come back and notice I've missed a bunch of stuff!! Here are the keys!!


----------



## ladysjk

Oh Thank God you didn't go to the other place, I was afraid to be by myself, I know I am bad, but gosh, I didn't want to go to the other place...hell right??


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> I must type a lot slower than I think!!! Probably all this tequila! Every time I type anything I come back and notice I've missed a bunch of stuff!! Here are the keys!!


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## galaxycraft

Still here. Had to find this.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Oh Thank God you didn't go to the other place, I was afraid to be by myself, I know I am bad, but gosh, I didn't want to go to the other place...hell right??


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## ladysjk

Mary Su 2 said:


> I must type a lot slower than I think!!! Probably all this tequila! Every time I type anything I come back and notice I've missed a bunch of stuff!! Here are the keys!!


It would be worse if thought slower than you type


----------



## kwright

It is a shame Gillie's Bar is closed in Pasadena. I think I'll enjoy there that picture is...


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> No need. Left it behind. We are ahead.


I told you!! Some people can't handle fun!!! Too bad we didn't try this a couple of days ago!!!

Ladysjk, we can sing now! Can I suggest we start with the song from the Wizard of Oz?? Ding Dong the witch is dead.


----------



## ladysjk

Footloose, footloose,gotta be footloose...or is that not the words? I know the words to There's a Bathroom on the Right...or maybe it's There's a Bad Moon on the Rise???


----------



## blessedinMO

I think it will be (no pun intended) a cold day in the other place before someone starts another OMG the price of yarn.


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> I told you!! Some people can't handle fun!!! Too bad we didn't try this a couple of days ago!!!
> 
> Ladysjk, we can sing now! Can I suggest we start with the song from the Wizard of Oz?? Ding Dong the witch is dead.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: but tomorrow it may rise again?


----------



## ladysjk

Or...If I Only had a brain??


----------



## blessedinMO

The witch, I mean.


----------



## galaxycraft

Mary Su 2 said:


> I told you!! Some people can't handle fun!!! Too bad we didn't try this a couple of days ago!!!
> 
> Ladysjk, we can sing now! Can I suggest we start with the song from the Wizard of Oz?? Ding Dong the witch is dead.


:thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Or...If I Only had a brain??


What's a brain?


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> Oh Thank God you didn't go to the other place, I was afraid to be by myself, I know I am bad, but gosh, I didn't want to go to the other place...hell right??


Not that 'other place' silly!! Who has your keys???


----------



## knitnut86

But if we take the same approach and ignore, I think it will eventually give up, no attention, no reason to be here! :roll:


----------



## blessedinMO

I only ask because I knit acrylic.


----------



## ladysjk

Not if we all kindly make her something from our wonderful acrylic yarn and send it to her...imagine the horror that would cause!


----------



## kwright

Next y'all have a party, send me a PM, and I'll bring the Rum and Whiskey.


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: but tomorrow it may rise again?


Then it must be The Vampire From Cyberspace.


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: but tomorrow it may rise again?


OK, so we improvise! Ding dong the witch is gone!!


----------



## ladysjk

MarySu2, I gave my keys to charity..


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> But if we take the same approach and ignore, I think it will eventually give up, no attention, no reason to be here! :roll:


I think you are right on the money. Just that it's so hard for me to keep my mouth shut! :hunf:


----------



## kwright

I have the water.


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> It would be worse if thought slower than you type


Too many people doing that already!!! I wouldn't dare add to that!!!


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> MarySu2, I gave my keys to charity..


You donated your Rolls Royce?


----------



## ladysjk

blessedinMO said:


> I think you are right on the money. Just that it's so hard for me to keep my mouth shut! :hunf:


don't keep your mouth shut, just turn it into a positive, and pass out some glasses...


----------



## blessedinMO

galaxycraft said:


> You donated your Rolls Royce?


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: with the Cashmere steering wheel cover?


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> Or...If I Only had a brain??


No, that would be too depressing! It would remind us of those that don't have one!!!


----------



## knitnut86

ladysjk said:


> don't keep your mouth shut, just turn it into a positive, and pass out some glasses...


if we have a magarita party everytime this happens, I may have to end up at "virtual" AA!!! :roll:


----------



## ladysjk

Oh no dear, not the Rolls, the Lamborghini, why would I give my inexpensive Rolls to charity, and keep the more expensive Lamborghini for my self?? 


galaxycraft said:


> You donated your Rolls Royce?


----------



## kwright

I like to party. It is much more fun even if I am a step behind.


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> Oh no dear, not the Rolls, the Lamborghini, why would I give my inexpensive Rolls to charity, and keep the more expensive Lamborghini for my self??


Of course. How silly of me.


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> if we have a magarita party everytime this happens, I may have to end up at "virtual" AA!!! :roll:


Totally excellent ideal. Let's do that. That should drive them batty.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Oh no dear, not the Rolls, the Lamborghini, why would I give my inexpensive Rolls to charity, and keep the more expensive Lamborghini for my self??


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: How stupid of me!


----------



## knitnut86

blessedinMO said:


> Totally excellent ideal. Let's do that. That should drive them batty.


I'm in!!!!!!!!


----------



## ladysjk

On a sad note, I must leave the party early. I have to work tomorrow, that's right I have a job, I am not independently wealthy! I know hard to imagine, but I am not, it is one of those things I have to put up with to survive.


----------



## kwright

Me, too, for the party. I'll go lerk somewhere else. Post a few compliments for a few people.


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> On a sad note, I must leave the party early. I have to work tomorrow, that's right I have a job, I am not independently wealthy! I know hard to imagine, but I am not, it is one of those things I have to put up with to survive.


Sleep well and sweet dreams.


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> Totally excellent ideal. Let's do that. That should drive them batty.


OK, ladysjk wanted to start singing, you just gave me the idea for the perfect song!!
Tequila!!!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

I cannot thank you guys enough for the best evening ever! What a wonderful end to a gruesome day! Thank you and bless. See you tomorrow, and have a great tomorrow.


----------



## knitnut86

ladysjk said:


> On a sad note, I must leave the party early. I have to work tomorrow, that's right I have a job, I am not independently wealthy! I know hard to imagine, but I am not, it is one of those things I have to put up with to survive.


Good night my friend..... don't forget to take of that acrylic cap before you go to bed, wouldn't want to get all sweaty .... take care... see you on here soon!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> On a sad note, I must leave the party early. I have to work tomorrow, that's right I have a job, I am not independently wealthy! I know hard to imagine, but I am not, it is one of those things I have to put up with to survive.


Well Goodnight!!! We'll save the sing-a-long for the next party!!!


----------



## ladysjk

blessedinMO said:


> Totally excellent ideal. Let's do that. That should drive them batty.


I'm in, as long we are joking and laughing and drinking I will hook up with you all anytime. It should do one of two things, make us the Kp drunks, or drive them batty..er.


----------



## knitnut86

ladysjk said:


> I'm in, as long we are joking and laughing and drinking I will hook up with you all anytime. It should do one of two things, make us the Kp drunks, or drive them batty..er.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ladysjk

Night ladies, and a pleasure being n your company. I have to sober up, so I can go forth, heal the sick and counsel the dying. And thanks..


----------



## galaxycraft

ladysjk said:


> Night ladies, and a pleasure being n your company. I have to sober up, so I can go forth, heal the sick and counsel the dying. And thanks..


Good night.


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> I cannot thank you guys enough for the best evening ever! What a wonderful end to a gruesome day! Thank you and bless. See you tomorrow, and have a great tomorrow.


It was a great time!!
Before you go, I love your dog!!! Is that a Pom??? I have to ask because I have mistakenly called some long haired Chihuahuas Poms, and they didn't like it!!! We had a few Poms, and they were my Mom's favorites!! But my niece and nephew fell in love with this tiny poodle and convinced their Mom, my SIL, that they should get her for Mom and me for Christmas. Suzy is all of 10 lbs. She was only 3.5 lbs. when we got her for Christmas almost 5 years ago! What is your dog's name??


----------



## Mary Su 2

galaxycraft said:


> Good night.


Goodnight!!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

ladysjk said:


> I'm in, as long we are joking and laughing and drinking I will hook up with you all anytime. It should do one of two things, make us the Kp drunks, or drive them batty..er.


I think we can accomplish both at the same time!! We are after all, a talented bunch!!


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Everyone loves a happy drunk.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Night ladies, and a pleasure being n your company. I have to sober up, so I can go forth, heal the sick and counsel the dying. And thanks..


Good night, and thanks again. Bless.


----------



## vjh1530

Mary Su 2 said:


> I just moved into a new home about 5 weeks ago, so between the packing there and unpacking here, I haven't really done very much knitting for quite a while!! Anytime now I'm going to get through enough of these boxes to get down to some serious knitting!! I have always loved lacy patterns, and knit most of my sweaters that way. Now I can't wait until I have a nice little cozy spot all ready for me to sit and really concentrate on one of those beautiful lace shawls!! One of the good things about moving was finding some really nice yarns in my stash that I had forgotten about!! But the one large cone of cotton that I had sitting right where I would always know where it was, so I could make something with it first was thrown in the dumpster ON PURPOSE by my SIL!!! I saw her pick it up twice, and twice I told her to PUT THAT DOWN, but there were 3 of them there and after they left I noticed that the cotton was gone!! I got up early the next morning to see if I could get it out of the dumpster before it was picked up, and I found 3 never used leather purses, a crystal candle holder, and a few other things, but not the yarn!! It was buried too deep under the things that did belong in the dumpster. It was a sports weight cotton in a cone that was at least 1 1/2 to 2 pounds!!! And it was the most gorgeous fuchsia colour!!! It still breaks my heart to lose it!! I can't afford to replace it! But then it gets better!!! About a week later my DB and his wife convinced me to call the 'Got-Junk' people to take away more things, including my old couch. There were about a dozen pillow on that couch that I put into 2 baskets and told the guys to NOT take them!! 8 of them were hand embroidered by me or my Mom. When I wasn't paying attention, my SIL had them thrown out with the junk!!!
> Well, you'll think twice about asking me a simple question again, won't you??? Lol I can go off on a rant sometimes!! I'll feel better when I get to work on that first shawl!!!
> I love working with fine yarns!! But I really haven't done anything to sell, except when someone sees me wearing something they like and give me money for it!!


First off, guys, :thumbdown: is my new "code" for "your posts are dumb, but I am not giving you more words to argue against, I just want you to know I don't like what you are saying".

Second - wow does your SIL hate you or something? I wouldn't let her in my house!!! That is amazing!


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> It was a great time!!
> Before you go, I love your dog!!! Is that a Pom??? I have to ask because I have mistakenly called some long haired Chihuahuas Poms, and they didn't like it!!! We had a few Poms, and they were my Mom's favorites!! But my niece and nephew fell in love with this tiny poodle and convinced their Mom, my SIL, that they should get her for Mom and me for Christmas. Suzy is all of 10 lbs. She was only 3.5 lbs. when we got her for Christmas almost 5 years ago! What is your dog's name??


She is a Chi/Pom getting on in years. She was a rescue from near the Mexican border. Wonderful little girl. Her name is Jesse, but she has always been Jazubie to me.


----------



## knitnut86

Good night all, have a wonderful day tomorrow and we'll talk later!


----------



## blessedinMO

knitnut86 said:


> Good night all, have a wonderful day tomorrow and we'll talk later!


 :thumbup: Sweet dreams.


----------



## Janeway

Thanks for "one" entertaining evening as read all 50 pages but last 5-6 the best! You ladies are cool!

Nighty, night, sleep tight don't let the "bed" bugs bite!


----------



## sumnerusa

knitnut86 said:


> now THAT made me laugh out loud!!!!!!! :thumbup:


Oh my gosh, me too! :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

vjh1530 said:


> First off, guys, :thumbdown: is my new "code" for "your posts are dumb, but I am not giving you more words to argue against, I just want you to know I don't like what you are saying".
> 
> Second - wow does your SIL hate you or something? I wouldn't let her in my house!!! That is amazing!


As it turns out, yes she does!!! I had been caregiver for my parents for well over 10 years, as well as dealing with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome myself. Thank goodness, not a really severe case, but enough to make me feel like I'm moving in slow motion. 
Anyway, when my Dad died 2 years ago, she and my DB were trying to rush me to the lawyers directly from the cemetery the day of the funeral!!! They couldn't wait to sell the house and get their share of the money!! It took me a long time to try to clean out a cluttered house while trying to keep my own things, including my yarn. It was a big stash, because every time I bought some, I had to buy an equal amount for Mom, and it all added up over the years. By June they got very impatient to put the house on the market and came over to 'help' while yelling at me the whole time!! It was then that I found out how she really felt about me and my Mother. Oh, it's midnight! That makes it Mom's birthday! November 11. She passed away 4 years ago, and I still miss her every day!! She accused my Mom and later me, of being in 'serious need of psychiatric help!!! She then told me that I MIGHT be OK if I just got off the drugs that I'm on!!! I asked which drugs did she mean. The 2 I take for my high blood pressure or the 1 I take for my underactive thyroid. She was so shocked that she didn't answer. The house was put up for sale and was sold. I didn't hear from her until the day I moved in here. I got the most foul e-mail from her you can imagine!!! I never answered it!! I didn't hear from my brother for almost 2 weeks, late in the evening on Thanksgiving. It was pleasant enough, but after what had been said by him over the last 2 years, I still didn't answer him. I haven't heard from him since!! And for my own piece of mind, I don't intend to have any contact with either one of them!!! I do miss their children though! Well, they aren't so much children anymore. The daughter is 20 and the son 17 and 6'4"!! Unless he's grown in the last few months!! 
So now it's just me and Suzy (my avatar)!! And very soon, I get back to some really serious knitting!! I have only done a few small projects the last couple of years because of all the work I had to do!! The good thing about moving, I have found some wonderful yarns that I had forgotten I had!!! I plan to hibernate all winter with just my dog and my yarn!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

sumnerusa said:


> Oh my gosh, me too! :lol:


Oh, you betcha!. Wowee!


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> As it turns out, yes she does!!! I had been caregiver for my parents for well over 10 years, as well as dealing with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome myself. Thank goodness, not a really severe case, but enough to make me feel like I'm moving in slow motion.
> Anyway, when my Dad died 2 years ago, she and my DB were trying to rush me to the lawyers directly from the cemetery the day of the funeral!!! They couldn't wait to sell the house and get their share of the money!! It took me a long time to try to clean out a cluttered house while trying to keep my own things, including my yarn. It was a big stash, because every time I bought some, I had to buy an equal amount for Mom, and it all added up over the years. By June they got very impatient to put the house on the market and came over to 'help' while yelling at me the whole time!! It was then that I found out how she really felt about me and my Mother. Oh, it's midnight! That makes it Mom's birthday! November 11. She passed away 4 years ago, and I still miss her every day!! She accused my Mom and later me, of being in 'serious need of psychiatric help!!! She then told me that I MIGHT be OK if I just got off the drugs that I'm on!!! I asked which drugs did she mean. The 2 I take for my high blood pressure or the 1 I take for my underactive thyroid. She was so shocked that she didn't answer. The house was put up for sale and was sold. I didn't hear from her until the day I moved in here. I got the most foul e-mail from her you can imagine!!! I never answered it!! I didn't hear from my brother for almost 2 weeks, late in the evening on Thanksgiving. It was pleasant enough, but after what had been said by him over the last 2 years, I still didn't answer him. I haven't heard from him since!! And for my own piece of mind, I don't intend to have any contact with either one of them!!! I do miss their children though! Well, they aren't so much children anymore. The daughter is 20 and the son 17 and 6'4"!! Unless he's grown in the last few months!!
> So now it's just me and Suzy (my avatar)!! And very soon, I get back to some really serious knitting!! I have only done a few small projects the last couple of years because of all the work I had to do!! The good thing about moving, I have found some wonderful yarns that I had forgotten I had!!! I plan to hibernate all winter with just my dog and my yarn!!!


You know where to look if you want company!


----------



## peachy51

Dang, I go take a shower and go to CVS and Taco Bell and y'all have a 10-page party without me! 

And, judging from what I'm reading, I'm thinking most of ya'll need a designated knitter tonight 

Glad to see you had a good night after all.


----------



## sumnerusa

Mary Su 2 said:


> I unfortunately skipped those!!! I could use a few this time of year. My body has a heck of a time adjusting from summer weather to the cold!!
> But then just yesterday someone did condemn me to H**L. I guess I wouldn't complain about being cold there!!


Just make sure you don't wear anything acrylic!!!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

peachy51 said:


> Dang, I go take a shower and go to CVS and Taco Bell and y'all have a 10-page party without me!
> 
> And, judging from what I'm reading, I'm thinking most of ya'll need a designated knitter tonight
> 
> Glad to see you had a good night after all.


it was all virtual booze...but we had a load of fun!


----------



## peachy51

blessedinMO said:


> it was all virtual booze...but we had a load of fun!


LOL ... I see that you did! I'm gonna go eat my tacos now and try to finish these gloves I'm working on.

Good night


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> She is a Chi/Pom getting on in years. She was a rescue from near the Mexican border. Wonderful little girl. Her name is Jesse, but she has always been Jazubie to me.


She is beautiful!! My last dog was a Pom/ Cocker Spaniel mix. I found that out totally by accident, long story!! She looked Pom, but had bigger ears that didn't stand up and had the 'spaniel' eyes. She suffered with arthritis in her legs and feet for a few years and had to be carried up and down stairs. Other than that, she still had her occasional 'puppy' moments. She got very sick, very quickly and had to be put down a month before she turned 19. I couldn't imagine living without a dog!! I was born with a dog in the house, and I will have them as long as I can care for them and myself!! They are a little blessing!!
Good night!! See you at the next 'tequila party'!!!


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> She is beautiful!! My last dog was a Pom/ Cocker Spaniel mix. I found that out totally by accident, long story!! She looked Pom, but had bigger ears that didn't stand up and had the 'spaniel' eyes. She suffered with arthritis in her legs and feet for a few years and had to be carried up and down stairs. Other than that, she still had her occasional 'puppy' moments. She got very sick, very quickly and had to be put down a month before she turned 19. I couldn't imagine living without a dog!! I was born with a dog in the house, and I will have them as long as I can care for them and myself!! They are a little blessing!!
> Good night!! See you at the next 'tequila party'!!!


yes, do join us. Jazubie at her advanced age still has her puppy moments - hard to believe she can do them...love of my life and a blessing. Good night!


----------



## Mary Su 2

Janeway said:


> Thanks for "one" entertaining evening as read all 50 pages but last 5-6 the best! You ladies are cool!
> 
> Nighty, night, sleep tight don't let the "bed" bugs bite!


Well, you must come to the next party!!! I love the prayer you posted!!! It's too late for some of those things, but I have some hope on the rest!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

peachy51 said:


> Dang, I go take a shower and go to CVS and Taco Bell and y'all have a 10-page party without me!
> 
> And, judging from what I'm reading, I'm thinking most of ya'll need a designated knitter tonight
> 
> Glad to see you had a good night after all.


I thought you were still there when we started!!! You left too soon!! Are you offering to be the 'designated knitter'???


----------



## blessedinMO

Mary Su 2 said:


> I thought you were still there when we started!!! You left too soon!! Are you offering to be the 'designated knitter'???


But only if you promise not to knit wool


----------



## Country Bumpkins

maryann1701 said:


> What happened to OMG! Yarn prices, who cares what the damn yarn costs right now


Oh girls! I thought it was OMG this is the Jerry Springer Show. lol Thanks for turning a bad situation into fun. :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

Country Bumpkins said:


> Oh girls! I thought it was OMG this is the Jerry Springer Show. lol Thanks for turning a bad situation into fun. :thumbup:


Oh, please! It made Jerry Springer look like Sesame Street at times. At some point sanity had to take over.


----------



## Country Bumpkins

ladysjk said:


> Hell has flames?? OH, so that's where I was, well if that is true, then I will not have to go back, been there, done that, got some nice acrylic yarn..a t shirt and left.


  :-D :lol:


----------



## Mary Su 2

blessedinMO said:


> You know where to look if you want company!


Yes, and I'm glad I was here tonight!!! My Suzy is asleep in my lap!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins

blessedinMO said:


> Oh, please! It made Jerry Springer look like Sesame Street at times. At some point sanity had to take over.


That's true. lolll


----------



## blessedinMO

But we did have a good time. Once we were rid of the brimstone.


----------



## peachy51

Mary Su 2 said:


> I thought you were still there when we started!!! You left too soon!! Are you offering to be the 'designated knitter'???


I'm sorry I missed it ... sure I'll be the virtual designated knitter tonight since you all are virtually drunk


----------



## peachy51

Oh, wait! I need to go dig some acrylic out of my stash because I have actually been knitting with "real" wool tonight


----------



## blessedinMO

A couple of months ago a lady started a post which amused me greatly, but only today I understand the impact of her point. Her opening line (and I paraphrase) "I am one of the Acrylic knitting Phyllistines. It cracked me up, but I had no idea how deep this thing really is.


----------



## suzy-kate

I was baby sitting last night and went straight to bed when I got in, woke up this morning to DH bringing me a cup of tea in bed so my day started off well, only to find I missed the party. Ah well, perhaps I'll get to the next one, bound to be one soon.


----------



## blessedinMO

suzy-kate said:


> I was baby sitting last night and went straight to bed when I got in, woke up this morning to DH bringing me a cup of tea in bed so my day started off well, only to find I missed the party. Ah well, perhaps I'll get to the next one, bound to be one soon.


And a swell party it was. You'll be sure to be at the next one!


----------



## suzy-kate

blessedinMO said:


> And a swell party it was. You'll be sure to be at the next one!


Do we need a password? You know like I'm currently knitting with...... in my case 100% wool (aran coat for GD) and wool acrylic mix (cowl for DS).


----------



## misellen

galaxycraft said:


> And don't forget - we are bad.


Not bad. I thought evil was the term.

Sorry folks, I couldn't resist, I had unwatched this thread yesterday but just had to check it this morning to see if you had all burnt up or exploded or, perhaps, gone sailing off into the fiery pit. LOL :XD:


----------



## misellen

galaxycraft said:


> You mean it is menopause sweat and not caused by this acrylic hat I am wearing?
> Oh Man!


It couldn't be the acrylic hat. Acrylic isn't warm remember? At least not before the sparks from the knitting friction fly up and touch it. Then we will all get out the marshmallows to enjoy with the bonfire.


----------



## galaxycraft

misellen said:


> It couldn't be the acrylic hat. Acrylic isn't warm remember? At least not before the sparks from the knitting friction fly up and touch it.
> Then we will all get out the marshmallows to enjoy with the bonfire.


:lol:


----------



## Janeway

Mary Su 2 said:


> Well, you must come to the next party!!! I love the prayer you posted!!! It's too late for some of those things, but I have some hope on the rest!!


Thanks as it sounds like fun! You ladies are wonderful, but I won't mention "yarn type" just enjoy your company & the party!

Do you need chocolate & graham crackers for those marshmallows?


----------



## Lostie

Well done chaps. I was horrified by this thread yesterday, and couldn't believe how long it had got today. Couldn't resist having a peek from between my fingers .Yayy .... you made it a party. Good for you :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## normancha

blessedinMO said:


> No. San Diego. San Diego is South of everything in CA.


San Ysidro, the crossing point, is south of San Diego.


----------



## blessedinMO

normancha said:


> San Ysidro, the crossing point, is south of San Diego.


Oh yes. San Ysidro. Loved that part of SD. Also Eastward to Santa Isabel. Great country.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

PaKnitter said:


> We sometimes work out in the cold as long as it is above freezing because we have a small survey business and I wear acrylics and truthfully have never noticed much difference when I wear wool which I have tons of. I get cold in both in the same amount of time so I turn a deaf ear to the choir.
> And I have yet to melt, burn or blow up sitting in the jeep to warm up.


Again, the viewing the world from relatively affluent bubble is myopic. And yes, I would agree that you turn a "deaf ear" because your "selective hearing" is clearly contributing to your ignorance.

It's simply a scientific fact that wool is much warmer than acrylic to the point where it can make the difference between loosing one's fingers to frostbite or not.

And that YOU haven't caught on fire has nothing to do with the people who may have to sleep by an open fire or have rickety space heaters in their home in a desperate attempt to stay warm that catch on fire.

THESE are the circumstances that someone as relatively affluent as you don't have to worry about.

And applying YOUR circumstances to the disenfranchised is simply ... well ... stupid.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

PaKnitter said:


> And at the end of the day what does it matter...none of us is going to change our ways for some stranger in cyberspace.
> That's my story and I'm sticking to it and who gives a darn really...no one but me.


No one's asking you to change your was for some stranger in cyberspace, they're asking people to be more considerate of and not endanger vulnerable people.

If being selfish is your story and your sticking to it, that's you're choice.... but your myopic selfishness can have consequences.

Some people are cheapskates _and there's nothing wrong with that_. But when you don't care about providing ACTUAL warmth for people in need or potentially putting them in harms way because you wanted to save yourself 50 cents a skein, then your choices move beyond "cheapskatery" and moves into the blind selfishness category.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

....


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> Courier, as I have said before, yours is the only instance of this occurrence I have heard of.


Given how myopic you've been, it's not surprising you're not aware of other circumstances. That's the problem with self-centered people, they don't see others around them.



peachy51 said:


> As far as charity knitting is concerned, I still submit that if I had nothing I would be happy to receive anything, regardless of the fabric. It has been intimated on this thread that those who use acrylic to knit with and then donate that knitting to charity are out to kill off all the needy. That is just plain absurd.


Again, this "beggars can't be choosers" attitude is insulting and dehumanizing.

Taking advantage of people who have nothing and reasoning that you can give them CRAP things that DON'T keep them sufficiently warm and put them in danger is just plain selfish thinking.

Why don't you just argue that when you spit on homeless people you're doing them a favor because you're providing them with hydration?

The indigent and needy are HUMAN BEINGS who are often stuck with CRAP items that no one else would keep BECAUSE they're crap.

Sorry, but don't call it "charity" when you knit crap plastic items that don't adequately do what they're supposed to do (_keep people warm without endangering them_)

It's not charity when you do that, it's nothing but vainglory. You do it ... to keep yourself busy or to brag to your friends that you "knit for charity" or some other selfish reason --- because you think it makes you sound like a good person.

If you ACTUALLY cared about the people you're knitting for, when someone tells you your items aren't keeping people warm and might endanger them you say "Oh, I hadn't realized that, I'll knit with superwash natural fiber yarn from now on."... you don't attack the messenger, you don't focus on whether the person/people who informed you and start whiinge about how they didn't tell you politely enough.. you don't put up your hackles and fight back at the "snobbery". People who react that way are just confirming that all they do is think of themselves.

IF you're SINCERELY trying to do good things for the needy You just do what's best for the people you're supposedly knitting for.

So really people...

You can complain about me or anyone else that's pointed out that plastic yarn isn't a good choice for the needy ... but the more you do, the more you confirm that you think it's ALL ABOUT YOU, and you're not thinking of the needy.

And yes, I put it out there bluntly. But reading through Amyknits posts, she's always presented her POV with kindness and wisdom, and many of you seem to piss and moan about her too.

It seems like no matter HOW you're told, politely or bluntly, you care more about attacking the messenger then thinking about the needy.


----------



## blessedinMO

OK, so it's Margaritas at sunset, then! Ciao!


----------



## painthoss

blessedinMO said:


> OK, so it's Margaritas at sunset, then! Ciao!


I'd join you but I need to spend a little time checking out the yarn resources people suggested throughout this thread. Useful info!


----------



## bwtyer

here we go again - you are back, I see to hurtle more insults.
As far as the nasty response you gave me a few days ago- the shelters here prefer acrylic because they wash clothing and help the street people- for you to say they don't know what they are talking about proves your narrow mindness and ignorance. 
And yes some places in Texas get cold but not where I am and I donate locally as well as volunteer locally. I think I know better about my area than you - you won't even put where you live- I see you are a singer- how about singing a farewell song and come back when you have learned some manners??


----------



## Rosette

I am now very concerned about a darling jacket I am making for a friend's 4 year old daughter. The yarn is Sirdar Snowflake and is as soft as baby kittens, but it is 100% polyester. It is a man-made fibre, as is acrylic. Does that mean it is too dangerous for her to wear? I am so confused!


----------



## bwtyer

here is a guides to burning of fibers. Cotton is the least safe, Rayon is next in line for flammability. 
Polyester and acrylic are in the middle, right under wool and silk.
They are not considered unsafe. - some people prefer wool, some don't - just knit what you like and ignore those who think they know better than anybody.

http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm


----------



## Designer1234

Rosette said:


> I am now very concerned about a darling jacket I am making for a friend's 4 year old daughter. The yarn is Sirdar Snowflake and is as soft as baby kittens, but it is 100% polyester. It is a man-made fibre, as is acrylic. Does that mean it is too dangerous for her to wear? I am so confused!


In my opinion it is not the least bit dangerous. I have been knitting with acrylic or polyester. I am sorry you have been frightened by the posts by two people on this thread -

for years for all my baby outfits.

Many of us don't use anything else but these types of yarns - especially as they are easy to care for which makes a huge difference - they can be machine washed.

I guess you can read the two posters who over ride everyone else-- If it were me I would certainly never use natural wools for a child -- many have allergies and they will be ruined if they are put in a washing machine by mistake.


----------



## Designer1234

bwtyer said:


> here is a guides to burning of fibers. Cotton is the least safe, Rayon is next in line for flammability.
> Polyester and acrylic are in the middle, right under wool and silk.
> They are not considered unsafe. - some people prefer wool, some don't - just knit what you like and ignore those who think they know better than anybody.
> 
> http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm


100% in agreement


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Again, this "beggars can't be choosers" attitude is insulting and dehumanizing.
> 
> Taking advantage of people who have nothing and reasoning that you can give them CRAP things that DON'T keep them sufficiently warm and put them in danger is just plain selfish thinking.
> 
> Why don't you just argue that when you spit on homeless people you're doing them a favor because you're providing them with hydration?
> 
> The indigent and needy are HUMAN BEINGS who are often stuck with CRAP items that no one else would keep BECAUSE they're crap.
> 
> Sorry, but don't call it "charity" when you knit crap plastic items that don't adequately do what they're supposed to do (_keep people warm without endangering them_)
> 
> It's not charity when you do that, it's nothing but vainglory. You do it ... to keep yourself busy or to brag to your friends that you "knit for charity" or some other selfish reason --- because you think it makes you sound like a good person.
> 
> If you ACTUALLY cared about the people you're knitting for, when someone tells you your items aren't keeping people warm and might endanger them you say "Oh, I hadn't realized that, I'll knit with superwash natural fiber yarn from now on."... you don't attack the messenger, you don't focus on whether the person/people who informed you and start whiinge about how they didn't tell you politely enough.. you don't put up your hackles and fight back at the "snobbery". People who react that way are just confirming that all they do is think of themselves.
> 
> IF you're SINCERELY trying to do good things for the needy You just do what's best for the people you're supposedly knitting for.
> 
> So really people...
> 
> You can complain about me or anyone else that's pointed out that plastic yarn isn't a good choice for the needy ... but the more you do, the more you confirm that you think it's ALL ABOUT YOU, and you're not thinking of the needy.
> 
> And yes, I put it out there bluntly. But reading through Amyknits posts, she's always presented her POV with kindness and wisdom, and many of you seem to piss and moan about her too.
> 
> It seems like no matter HOW you're told, politely or bluntly, you care more about attacking the messenger then thinking about the needy.


====================
---
There are only two people on this thread that are insulting and dehumanizing - 
I am going to follow my new motto

*Let's embrace our differences - and ignore nasty posts* -- I won't answer your nasty posts any more ever. I hope others who agree with me will also decide to do the same thing.


----------



## Frogger

Rosette said:


> I am now very concerned about a darling jacket I am making for a friend's 4 year old daughter. The yarn is Sirdar Snowflake and is as soft as baby kittens, but it is 100% polyester. It is a man-made fibre, as is acrylic. Does that mean it is too dangerous for her to wear? I am so confused!


Thousands of babies are wearing outfits knit in this by loving knitters and have not had a problem..................knit on and enjoy!!


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> ====================
> ---
> There are only two people on this thread that are insulting and dehumanizing -
> I am going to follow my new motto
> 
> *Let's embrace our differences - and ignore nasty posts* -- I won't answer your nasty posts any more ever. I hope others who agree with me will also decide to do the same thing.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: That's right! Let's not be baited today


----------



## bwtyer

Designer1234 said:


> ====================
> ---
> There are only two people on this thread that are insulting and dehumanizing -
> I am going to follow my new motto
> 
> *Let's embrace our differences - and ignore nasty posts* -- I won't answer your nasty posts any more ever. I hope others who agree with me will also decide to do the same thing.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I agree - I am finished as well - like talking to a brick wall anyway.


----------



## Designer1234

galaxycraft said:


> And other one of your rants.
> If you want to change the world in what you suspect is unfair child labor,
> I suggest you go to the governmental officials, or better yet go in front of Congress and preach there.
> You may create change there.
> This is not the place to make changes - nothing we can do but boycott ALL imports.
> Not going to happen.
> What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
> NOT ALL imports are created by force child slavery.
> And the ones that have been identified as such, changes are already being made.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## peachy51

bwtyer said:


> here we go again - you are back, I see to hurtle more insults.
> As far as the nasty response you gave me a few days ago- the shelters here prefer acrylic because they wash clothing and help the street people- for you to say they don't know what they are talking about proves your narrow mindess and ignorance.
> And yes some places in Texas get cold but not where I am and I donate locally as well as volunteer locally. I think I know better about my area than you - you won't even put where you live- I see you are a singer- how about singing a farewell song and come back when you have learned some manners??


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234

BluesChanteuse said:


> Again, this "beggars can't be choosers" attitude is insulting and dehumanizing.
> 
> Taking advantage of people who have nothing and reasoning that you can give them CRAP things that DON'T keep them sufficiently warm and put them in danger is just plain selfish thinking.
> 
> Why don't you just argue that when you spit on homeless people you're doing them a favor because you're providing them with hydration?
> 
> The indigent and needy are HUMAN BEINGS who are often stuck with CRAP items that no one else would keep BECAUSE they're crap.
> 
> Sorry, but don't call it "charity" when you knit crap plastic items that don't adequately do what they're supposed to do (_keep people warm without endangering them_)
> 
> It's not charity when you do that, it's nothing but vainglory. You do it ... to keep yourself busy or to brag to your friends that you "knit for charity" or some other selfish reason --- because you think it makes you sound like a good person.
> 
> If you ACTUALLY cared about the people you're knitting for, when someone tells you your items aren't keeping people warm and might endanger them you say "Oh, I hadn't realized that, I'll knit with superwash natural fiber yarn from now on."... you don't attack the messenger, you don't focus on whether the person/people who informed you and start whiinge about how they didn't tell you politely enough.. you don't put up your hackles and fight back at the "snobbery". People who react that way are just confirming that all they do is think of themselves.
> 
> IF you're SINCERELY trying to do good things for the needy You just do what's best for the people you're supposedly knitting for.
> 
> So really people...
> 
> You can complain about me or anyone else that's pointed out that plastic yarn isn't a good choice for the needy ... but the more you do, the more you confirm that you think it's ALL ABOUT YOU, and you're not thinking of the needy.
> 
> And yes, I put it out there bluntly. But reading through Amyknits posts, she's always presented her POV with kindness and wisdom, and many of you seem to piss and moan about her too.
> 
> It seems like no matter HOW you're told, politely or bluntly, you care more about attacking the messenger then thinking about the needy.


You are very welcome to your opinion - it is your method of insulting those who don't agree with you that we find disturbing. We don't all agree with you --


----------



## Rosette

Rosette said:


> America sounds like such a dangerous place. Next time I visit my friends there I will take great care not to pack anything acrylic in case I get burned! Seriously people - how many Americans were burned though wearing garments made from acrylic yarn and how many died from being shot by their fellow Americans? You want to ban charity items made from acrylic yarn but you don't want to ban guns! Can we please keep this yarn discussion in perspective. Happy knitting


I notice BluesChanteuse has not replied to my post. Although she joined only last month, she seems to know an awful lot about how people in America die from wearing acrylic hand knits, so I am interested in her view as to which is more likely to cause death; guns or acrylic clothing. You see, here in UK we get to hear about US citizens shooting and killing each other, but nothing so far about a single fire/acrylic garment death. I am so confused! It is a shame I can't watch Nancy Grace over here. I am sure she could find the statistics as it obvious a nation-wide concern.


----------



## Designer1234

vikicooks said:


> I use Red Heart yarn- it is a nice yarn for the purpose I'm using it for; afghans for the ladies at the local nursing home. They will love them because I made them - they won't care that I used an inexpensive yarn. My LYS gives us a free skein after buying 12, which is not hard to do!. I also buy Brava from knitpicks. I just can't afford anything more expensive than that; I knit and crochet for the love of It and buy what I can afford so I can keep doing it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## peachy51

Rosette said:


> I notice BluesChanteuse has not replied to my post. Although she joined only last month, she seems to know an awful lot about how people in America die from wearing acrylic hand knits, so I am interested in her view as to which is more likely to cause death; guns or acrylic clothing. You see, here in UK we get to hear about US citizens shooting and killing each other, but nothing so far about a single fire/acrylic garment death. I am so confused! It is a shame I can't watch Nancy Grace over here. I am sure she could find the statistics as it obvious a nation-wide concern.


LOL ... well I keep my guns locked in the closet, but I think I'm going to take all my acrylic yarn out of my stash and pile it in my entryway to scare off any intruders I may have


----------



## Designer1234

bwtyer said:


> here we go again - you are back, I see to hurtle more insults.
> As far as the nasty response you gave me a few days ago- the shelters here prefer acrylic because they wash clothing and help the street people- for you to say they don't know what they are talking about proves your narrow mindess and ignorance.
> And yes some places in Texas get cold but not where I am and I donate locally as well as volunteer locally. I think I know better about my area than you - you won't even put where you live- I see you are a singer- how about singing a farewell song and come back when you have learned some manners??


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jokim

blessedinMO said:


> Oh yes. San Ysidro. Loved that part of SD. Also Eastward to Santa Isabel. Great country.


Dudley's Bakery, the best pies, and bread, in SD County!


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> I'm sorry I missed it ... sure I'll be the virtual designated knitter tonight since you all are virtually drunk


I can remain sober with one Margarita -- it is the second one that really puts me under!! (Aug.25 was a long time ago for my last glass of wine)


----------



## blessedinMO

Jokim said:


> Dudley's Bakery, the best pies, and bread, in SD County!


Oh, I loved those trips out to Dudlley's. So peaceful! I hear they are under new management and doing great!.
Oh, and pies! They were better than Julian Pies.


----------



## bwtyer

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... well I keep my guns locked in the closet, but I think I'm going to take all my acrylic yarn out of my stash and pile it in my entryway to scare off any intruders I may have


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Our guns are in a safe except for the ones DH took hunting but you are right- I am going pull out all that acrylic yarn and start piling it up right now!


----------



## Designer1234

Janeway said:


> Thanks as it sounds like fun! You ladies are wonderful, but I won't mention "yarn type" just enjoy your company & the party!
> 
> Do you need chocolate & graham crackers for those marshmallows?


I will cut the switches for our marshmallows from our willow in the back yard. haven't had a marshmallow roasted for a long time. It is -6 below here so we might need another margarita. Welcome Janeway!


----------



## Jokim

blessedinMO said:


> Oh, I loved those trips out to Dudlley's. So peaceful! I hear they are under new management and doing great!.
> Oh, and pies! They were better than Julian Pies.


When did they come under new management? Was there this past March and things were as great as always. Their apple-walnut-caramel pie is to die for! Had both pies, and Julian's doesn't even come close. It is a nice place to visit and have lunch though.


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> I will cut the switches for our marshmallows from our willow in the back yard. haven't had a marshmallow roasted for a long time. It is -6 below here so we might need another margarita. Welcome Janeway!


Wow ... -6 below ... brrrrrrrr ... it is 72 here, but I am going out in a bit and move all my potted patio plants to the greenhouse because they are predicting 27 tomorrow night


----------



## blessedinMO

Jokim said:


> When did they come under new management? Was there this past March and things were as great as always. Their apple-walnut-caramel pie is to die for!


I left SD Nov 8 last year, and they were closing. I just heard about a month ago, that they transited from one owner to the other with no break.


----------



## Bombshellknits

I have to say that I did buy some Feza Alp Oriental. It makes a really cool rounded triangle shawl. I made myself one. I wear it as a scarf and get compliments galore. I have made a few for gifts. It is expensive. No doubt about it. But, the gif tees are so excited I was happy. I don't often spend that much


----------



## blessedinMO

blessedinMO said:


> I left SD Nov 8 last year, and they were closing. I just heard about a month ago, that they transited from one owner to the other with no break.


and there is no bakery in a 50 mi radius here. I so miss good bread.


----------



## Rosette

Apple-walnut-caramel pie? I have never heard of such a thing but am now desperate to make one! Recipe please!


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... I see that you did! I'm gonna go eat my tacos now and try to finish these gloves I'm working on.
> 
> Good night


virtual booze is the only kind I have -- It is just as much fun
as the real 'stuff' no hangover either. much better for rare drinkers (one glass of wine about every 3 months). Nice to meet you peachy-- see you around again


----------



## Designer1234

Rosette said:


> I notice BluesChanteuse has not replied to my post. Although she joined only last month, she seems to know an awful lot about how people in America die from wearing acrylic hand knits, so I am interested in her view as to which is more likely to cause death; guns or acrylic clothing. You see, here in UK we get to hear about US citizens shooting and killing each other, but nothing so far about a single fire/acrylic garment death. I am so confused! It is a shame I can't watch Nancy Grace over here. I am sure she could find the statistics as it obvious a nation-wide concern.


Yeah!!!!!


----------



## Jokim

blessedinMO said:


> I left SD Nov 8 last year, and they were closing. I just heard about a month ago, that they transited from one owner to the other with no break.


They obviously transited without any changes or with changes for the better. They are one of the major reasons to make trips that way.


----------



## blessedinMO

Jokim said:


> They obviously transited without any changes or with changes for the better. They are one of the major reasons to make trips that way.


My friends say that you can not tell the difference.


----------



## Designer1234

Frogger said:


> Thousands of babies are wearing outfits knit in this by loving knitters and have not had a problem..................knit on and enjoy!!


she is pulling our leg -- love the British humor. welcome to our bonfire Collette!


----------



## Designer1234

blessedinMO said:


> Totally excellent ideal. Let's do that. That should drive them batty.


What can we name ourselves -- lets have our names available so when someone becomes nasty we all visit and have a bonfire?? (actually it isn't such a bad idea- lots of fun too. Actually I think I am serious about keeping in touch and 'visiting nasty threads -- but then we have to (seriously) hit only those who are really nasty and abusive like our friends today -- not mild differences of opinion. hmmm


----------



## blessedinMO

Hmm should be something to do with bats, maybe?


----------



## suzy-kate

Did you know that many washable 100% wools are highly flammable? No? I didn't either, I've been trying to find out if mixed fibres were less dangerous than 100% acrylic, but was finding little data. So I went to my old uni library and came across some info there. Washable wools are made by either: -

Using chemicals, or bleach and enzymes to strip the outer cells off the wool, this alters the structure making the resulting yarn softer, stops it from felting which in turn makes it washable. Depending on what chemicals/bleach/enzymes are used it can also make it more dense (so it's less warm), less likely to hold dye (so the colours fade), and may become combustible.

Or

Wool is soaked in a solution polymer or resin which gives a protective coating (yes man made), and depending on what's used it can make it flammable and some coatings may melt. 

Other washable wools are made from mixed fibers, but it looks like the manufacturing process as well as the mix of fibers may affect how or if they melt or burn. So far I've tried to set three wool/acrylic yarns alight but barr a little scorching they've not actually gone on fire, but neither have they melted.

I've contacted three major suppliers, but so far only one has replied, there is no requirement by law to carry out testing on the flammability or melt temperatures on yarns unless they are recommended for childrens night clothes or for use in the kitchen. Though companies may test a new material or the resulting yarn from a new manufacturing process, chances are you'll only read about it if it's published in an academic paper.

When was the last time that you saw a manufacturer recommend a yarn to make a pot holder?

I'm also told that unless a manufacturer undertakes the full manufacturing process themselves, they may not know how it was made, they just purchased the fibers.

I've a nasty feeling that I may of opened a can of worms, as I seem to be coming up with more questions than answers, so if anyone's got any ideas on investigating this further get in touch.

And yes I knit with anything.


----------



## Jokim

Rosette said:


> Apple-walnut-caramel pie? I have never heard of such a thing but am now desperate to make one! Recipe please!


I'm sorry for having whetted your appetite without being able to provide a recipe for this pie. I can tell you that it has a crumb topping with apples and walnuts in the pie with melted caramel swirled all over the top. The pie is approx. 2"+ deep. The apple chunks are good size and the walnuts are large enough to be recognizable as such. Mild cinnamon is the only other flavor in this pie.


----------



## blessedinMO

Jokim said:


> I'm sorry for having whetted your appetite without being able to provide a recipe for this pie. I can tell you that it has a crumb topping with apples and walnuts in the pie with melted caramel swirled all over the top. The pie is approx. 2"+ deep. The apple chunks are good size and the walnuts are large enough to be recognizable as such. Mild cinnamon is the only other flavor in this pie.


This particular pie recipe belongs to Dudley's Bakery in Santa Ysabel, CA


----------



## Rosette

I expect I can find a recipe online, but thank you for the info. We have had a bumper crop of cooking apples this year. I think you call them sour apples. It is always good to try a new recipe. I think I will have a large blueberry tea with my pie, but I will have to find a recipe for that too!


----------



## peachy51

Rosette said:


> Apple-walnut-caramel pie? I have never heard of such a thing but am now desperate to make one! Recipe please!


I'm sure the place you all are talking about has a different pie, but here is one recipe:

http://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/caramel-apple-walnut-pie


----------



## blessedinMO

peachy51 said:


> I'm sure the place you all are talking about has a different pie, but here is one recipe:
> 
> http://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/caramel-apple-walnut-pie


Thank you ever so much!!! I'll make it and and make believe I was at Dudley's!


----------



## peachy51

blessedinMO said:


> Thank you ever so much!!! I'll make it and and make believe I was at Dudley's!


Ok! And you can send me a piece to try


----------



## Rosette

Sounds delicious and I have book marked the recipe. It is low calorie, right?


----------



## blessedinMO

peachy51 said:


> Ok! And you can send me a piece to try


for sure!


----------



## WaterFall

yes gone expensive .


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Frogger said:


> Thousands of babies are wearing outfits knit in this by loving knitters and have not had a problem..................knit on and enjoy!!


Until they're not....

Of course if you like risking YOUR children that way, that's, as you say your choice...

at least you would've saved 50 cents a skein!


----------



## Rosette

Why have you commented on everyone else's post but not mine? 
Do you really believe more Americans die from fire/acrylic accidents than from being shot? Are you anti British as well as anti acrylic?


----------



## blessedinMO

Well, whoever gets to Dudley's first save a table and order coffee and pastry! We're on our way!


----------



## Rosette

Buy me a ticket and I will come over and join you!


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Until they're not....
> 
> Of course if you like risking YOUR children that way, that's, as you say your choice...
> 
> at least you would've saved 50 cents a skein!


OMG! Do you even have children? Do you ever put them in a vehicle? You are risking them a thousand times more doing that than with any fabric you could dress them in.

Give it up already!


----------



## blessedinMO

Rosette said:


> Buy me a ticket and I will come over and join you!


 :thumbup: best bakery in the universe


----------



## peachy51

Rosette said:


> Why have you commented on everyone else's post but not mine?
> Do you really believe more Americans die from fire/acrylic accidents than from being shot? Are you anti British as well as anti acrylic?


LOL ... she's just fixated on browbeating us with this ONE issue ... she has issues.


----------



## Rosette

Rosette said:


> I notice BluesChanteuse has not replied to my post. Although she joined only last month, she seems to know an awful lot about how people in America die from wearing acrylic hand knits, so I am interested in her view as to which is more likely to cause death; guns or acrylic clothing. You see, here in UK we get to hear about US citizens shooting and killing each other, but nothing so far about a single fire/acrylic garment death. I am so confused! It is a shame I can't watch Nancy Grace over here. I am sure she could find the statistics as it obvious a nation-wide concern.


I see you are on line. 
Why won't you reply to my post? Are you intimidated by my superior intellect? Bring it on girl - I can't wait for your opinion on this one!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> Why have you commented on everyone else's post but not mine?
> Do you really believe more Americans die from fire/acrylic accidents than from being shot? Are you anti British as well as anti acrylic?


The point is why one would choose to play a "numbers game" like that when you don't have to?

ANYONE could get into a car accident at any time and a fire starts and your acrylic sweater melting to your skin creating DEEPER more serious burns could literally mean the difference between life and death.

It's one thing if you make that choice for yourself, but to put other people in danger is just selfish. Period.


----------



## Kimmielu

I want pie. Lots of pie. But instead will go finish knitting a hat with acrylic [or plastic] thread for my son. Because he likes them.


----------



## Rosette

BluesChanteuse said:


> The point is why one would choose to play a "numbers game" like that when you don't have to?
> 
> ANYONE could get into a car accident at any time and a fire starts and your acrylic sweater melting to your skin creating DEEPER more serious burns could literally mean the difference between life and death.
> 
> It's one thing if you make that choice for yourself, but to put other people in danger is just selfish. Period.


I think anyone involved in a car accident with a fire would die from smoke inhalation way before the flames reached their clothes. I win! I win! I win! I win! I win! I win!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Kimmielu said:


> I want pie. Lots of pie. But instead will go finish knitting a hat with acrylic (or plastic) thread for my son. Because he likes them.


I'm sure your son will enjoy that pie as the doctors are ripping the plastic out of the deep crevices in his skin if caught in a fire.

I'm sure as people stare at him because his face was so distorted by scars from the melting plastic that dripped from his head onto his face he'll be saying "_Well at least my mother makes lot's of pie_".

That's of course, if he didn't die from the serious burns YOU caused.

But, don't worry, your son's death will have been worth it because you told off that [w]itch from the KP forum!!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> I think anyone involved in a car accident with a fire would die from smoke inhalation way before the flames reached their clothes. I win! I win! I win! I win! I win! I win!


You think wrong.

People are serious burned or burned to death every day without being killed off by fumes first.

And whether they die or not they still have to deal with the GRAVE scars created by the plastic.

And that you think it's a "game" AGAIN shows your SERIOUS lack of perspective and selfish thinking.

You'd rather win and tell the [w]itch from KP off, than do the RIGHT thing.


----------



## Rosette

BluesChanteuse said:


> I'm sure your son will enjoy that pie as the doctors are ripping the plastic out of the deep crevices in his skin if caught in a fire.
> 
> I'm sure as people stare at him because his face was so distorted by scars from the melting plastic that dripped from his head onto his face he'll be saying "_Well at least my mother makes lot's of pie_".
> 
> That's of course, if he didn't die from the serious burns YOU caused.
> 
> But, don't worry, your son's death will have been worth it because you told off that [w]itch from the KP forum!!


To quote your avatar, 'I could tell you what I think of you, but in polite society it aint used outside of a kennel'!
I win! I win! I win!


----------



## bwtyer

I know a good psychiatrist (my cousin) if you would like his name. He could help you with your fear of acrylics.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> To quote your avatar, 'I could tell you what I think of you, but in polite society it aint used outside of a kennel'!
> I win! I win! I win!


Haven't learned to use the quote function on the board yet I see. Too complicated for you?

So you admit you live in a kennel? Figures.

Again, you can hate me all you want, but it still remains that you don't give a shit about putting the indigent and needy at risk.

I may be a [w]itch, but at least I'm not THAT rotten!

I'd rather be a [w]itch who tells the truth than someone who's thinks it's OK to put the needy at risk.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> I know a good psychiatrist (my cousin) if you would like his name. He could help you with your fear of acrylics.


He'd be better suited dealing with his selfish sadist cousin. It's a MUCH MUCH MUCH more serious problem.

I'm sure there's a short bus you usually take that'll take you to his office.


----------



## BoogieCat

suzy-kate said:


> Did you know that many washable 100% wools are highly flammable? No? I didn't either, I've been trying to find out if mixed fibres were less dangerous than 100% acrylic, but was finding little data. So I went to my old uni library and came across some info there. Washable wools are made by either: -
> 
> Using chemicals, or bleach and enzymes to strip the outer cells off the wool, this alters the structure making the resulting yarn softer, stops it from felting which in turn makes it washable. Depending on what chemicals/bleach/enzymes are used it can also make it more dense (so it's less warm), less likely to hold dye (so the colours fade), and may become combustible.
> 
> Or
> 
> Wool is soaked in a solution polymer or resin which gives a protective coating (yes man made), and depending on what's used it can make it flammable and some coatings may melt.
> 
> Other washable wools are made from mixed fibers, but it looks like the manufacturing process as well as the mix of fibers may affect how or if they melt or burn. So far I've tried to set three wool/acrylic yarns alight but barr a little scorching they've not actually gone on fire, but neither have they melted.
> 
> I've contacted three major suppliers, but so far only one has replied, there is no requirement by law to carry out testing on the flammability or melt temperatures on yarns unless they are recommended for childrens night clothes or for use in the kitchen. Though companies may test a new material or the resulting yarn from a new manufacturing process, chances are you'll only read about it if it's published in an academic paper.
> 
> When was the last time that you saw a manufacturer recommend a yarn to make a pot holder?
> 
> I'm also told that unless a manufacturer undertakes the full manufacturing process themselves, they may not know how it was made, they just purchased the fibers.
> 
> I've a nasty feeling that I may of opened a can of worms, as I seem to be coming up with more questions than answers, so if anyone's got any ideas on investigating this further get in touch.
> 
> And yes I knit with anything.


Suzy-Kate, very good info. After I researched washable wools I wondered about this very thing. And the ones that are coated with polymer or resin - I've really been curious as to how this affects the flammablity. Please post further info as you come across it - I'm very curious as to the process of making wool yarn into superwash.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

ladams123 said:


> Suzy-Kate, very good info. After I researched washable wools I wondered about this very thing. And the ones that are coated with polymer or resin - I've really been curious as to how this affects the flammablity. Please post further info as you come across it - I'm very curious as to the process of making wool yarn into superwash.


I enjoyed Suzy's post too. We should all take in consider such information.

I like when people actually THINK about information instead of getting into knee-jerk martyrdom whining that their feelings were hurt.

Of course, wool doesn't catch fire as quickly as acrylic, it stops burning on it's own when removed from the flame and it doesn't melt into the skin turning relatively minor burns that would heal well into DEEP scars or even life threatening.

But, I like that she's thinking out of the box and not whining!


----------



## Rosette

You obviously did not get the reference. I thought your avatar meant you were a Bette Davis fan.
I did not say nor admit I lived in a kennel. I don't hate you, I pity you. I have said nothing about not caring about the safety and well-being of others. 
Why do you put the w for witch in parenthesis but type the word shit in full?
Why have you not commented on the fact that so many of your fellow Americans die by being shot by their fellow citizens? Don't you care about all those poor, murdered children and their families? Are you in the pro-gun lobby? You seem like a very unhappy person and I feel sorry for you. I will keep you in my prayers.


----------



## Kimmielu

since my son has made it to the ripe old age of 33 and has promised me that the first thing he will do around fire is take off his hat, I think I will chance it. And my pies are fabulous. Truely fabulous, as is my knitting, no matter what kind of yarn I use. Troll, go back in your cave. You can not win, because you do not matter. Do you have fun in junior high? That is where your arguement level is at.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> You obviously did not get the reference. I thought your avatar meant you were a Bette Davis fan.


I got it that it's a Betty Davis quote.

I also think it's funny that you would choose a quote that pointed out you live in a kennel. A "Freudian slip" of sorts.


----------



## suzy-kate

Ok so which is worse, making something in acrylic or an acrylic mix, the wearer knows it's acrylic so takes care near open flames, or making something in superwash wool which the wearer believes being wool will not catch fire, so doesn't take care and then gets burnt because the process turning it into washable wool made it flammable.

You can't tell which process is used for superwash as both types are.


----------



## bwtyer

he's too busy with people like you who are all mouth and no ears. 
No one here has told you that you were wrong - what they have told you is that they disagree with how you say it- 
Obviously, you can't take what you like to dish out. 

You could have said why you prefer wools but no - you have to accuse everyone of trying to destroy mankind- I feel sorry for you - you must be an unhappy person.


----------



## Mercygirl76

Blues Chanteuse, you mentioned Amyknits earlier on this forum. You are so correct in that when she states her POV she doesn't berate nor does she get into serious arguments with her POV. She simply states what she thinks and then moves on. She is helpful, courteous, self-deprecating and humorous. She often shares information she has found out about this craft. Most importantly, she is respectful of others, even if she disagrees with them, even if she is being attacked for her opinions and she is standing up for herself. This is where you and she differ.

It is obvious that you are very passionate with your beliefs. I, too, choose not to knit with pure acrylics for a variety of reasons. Just because that is the choice I make doesn't mean that everyone else is WRONG. People make choices for many different reasons, all of which are important to them.

There is no reason and nothing to gain from disrespecting other people. You will absolutely not convince anyone that your beliefs are "right." There is no "right," only choices and preferences. Just like you have a right to your opinion, others have a right to theirs.

Your posts are so over the top, I am sure that now you are just responding out of anger. You probably feel like you have been goaded by others on this forum. Perhaps. BUT you continue to bring this upon yourself. Several posters nicely told you that they didn't agree with you, Designer1234 stands out in my mind, but that they respect your choices, and to give it a rest. You keep coming on the attack/defense.

Please know that nothing you post will change anyone's mind. You are now becoming entertainment and are not being taken seriously. The pot just keeps getting stirred up. Please, just let it go. This fight is just not worth it. There shouldn't even be a fight. We should all be knitting. Maybe that will calm everybody down.


----------



## blessedinMO

This is better than watching a tennis match.


----------



## carrottop71

Rosette said:


> Apple-walnut-caramel pie? I have never heard of such a thing but am now desperate to make one! Recipe please!


It's the best.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Kimmielu said:


> since my son has made it to the ripe old age of 33 and has promised me that the first thing he will do around fire is take off his hat,


Right, if only everyone caught in a fire "thought" to take their hat off first.

As the car he's in rolling down an embankment, I'm sure his cheap plastic hat will be the first think he thinks about before his car catches on fire!

BRILLIANT THINKING!!









But if he survives it, at least you can bring him pie in the hospital and feed him the pie as he screams from the pain of having your plastic hat dug out of his wounds! Everytime he screams you can just shove a piece of pie in his mouth to shut him up.

What a wonderful mother!


----------



## Rosette

No, silly! In the film, Bette was calling the other girl a bitch, not saying that she was one herself. You need to pay attention! It was certainly not a slip of any kind.
And no reply as to the murdered children. Do you not care for them unless they die by fire/acrylic garment accidents? You certainly are a strange little person. I will keep you in my prayers, as I do for all troubled souls. God bless.


----------



## blessedinMO

Truly bizarre.


----------



## Mercygirl76

P.S. I had promised myself I wouldn't post to this thread, but just couldn't help myself. Blue Chanteuse, believe me, I do feel your pain; but so much of it you have brought on yourself. This is just not worth the fight.

With that, peace everybody! I'm going to go look at some knitting pictures!


----------



## blessedinMO

Mercygirl76 said:


> P.S. I had promised myself I wouldn't post to this thread, but just couldn't help myself. Blue Chanteuse, believe me, I do feel your pain; but so much of it you have brought on yourself. This is just not worth the fight.
> 
> With that, peace everybody! I'm going to go look at some knitting pictures!


good move Mercy. Bless


----------



## carrottop71

Rosette said:


> I expect I can find a recipe online, but thank you for the info. We have had a bumper crop of cooking apples this year. I think you call them sour apples. It is always good to try a new recipe. I think I will have a large blueberry tea with my pie, but I will have to find a recipe for that too!


I don't have a recipe for the pie either, but I have a really good apple, walnut cake with caramel icing recipe.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> No, silly! .


No silly, if you have any reading comprehension, she's saying she's in a kennel and can't use swearwords outside of it.

If SHE'S in the kennel, then she's a [w]itch too. Get it?

Besides, as I said earlier:



> Again, you can hate me all you want, but it still remains that you don't give a shit about putting the indigent and needy at risk.
> 
> I may be a witch, but at least I'm not THAT rotten!
> 
> I'd rather be a witch who tells the truth than someone who's thinks it's OK to put the needy at risk.
> 
> You can complain about me or anyone else that's pointed out that plastic yarn isn't a good choice for the needy ... but the more you do, the more you confirm that you think it's ALL ABOUT YOU, and you're not thinking of the needy.
> 
> It seems like no matter HOW you're told, politely or bluntly, *you care more about attacking the messenger then thinking about the needy*.


So, the more you attack me the more you prove my point that your moral priorities are ackbasswards!


----------



## Country Bumpkins

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... well I keep my guns locked in the closet, but I think I'm going to take all my acrylic yarn out of my stash and pile it in my entryway to scare off any intruders I may have


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Kimmielu

Yes, thank you! I am a wonderful mother! Do you sit at the prep table in junior high? Do you talk about everyone else's clothes?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mercygirl76 said:


> P.S. I had promised myself I wouldn't post to this thread, but just couldn't help myself. Blue Chanteuse, believe me, I do feel your pain; but so much of it you have brought on yourself. This is just not worth the fight.
> 
> With that, peace everybody! I'm going to go look at some knitting pictures!


Thanks for your sympathy, but I'm doing fine.

It's not in my nature to seek the approval of people who don't care about doing the right thing for the needy.

Those who don't care about the needy think they're fooling people into thinking they're charitable when they knit plastic for charities. They hate it when they realize that people actually recognize they selfishness.

So, the more they have a hissy fit, the more "on point" I know I am.

If they ACTUALLY cared about the needy, what I or Amyknits or any "acrylic-resistant" knitters point out wouldn't bother them, they wouldn't hyper-react the way they do.

They want to knit their plastic mittens and the needy DON'T MATTER. That's why they're acting the way they are.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Kimmielu said:


> Yes, thank you! I am a wonderful mother! Do you sit at the prep table in junior high? Do you talk about everyone else's clothes?


Nice job with the quoting function, STILL don't know how to manage that code on this board?

If not caring about your child's safety makes a "good mother", then I guess you are!

If I did at the prep table in JR high and make fun of people, I'd draw the line at putting people at risk by knitting them plastic knitwear.

I wouldn't be so low as to not care about their safety even if I did think they were "nerds".


----------



## BobnDejasMom

This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.

However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


----------



## bwtyer

Kimmielu said:


> Yes, thank you! I am a wonderful mother! Do you sit at the prep table in junior high? Do you talk about everyone else's clothes?


Kimmielu, I am quiet sure she does- she probably has the girls in tears, then turns on the moms for destroying their kids' lives by letting them wear manmade fibers- then when she finishes with them, she'll notice the drapes on the stage are also man made and go harp at the principal. While she is doing that, she will notice his suit is not wool and go find his mother and start on her-- on and on and on , kind of like the energizer bunny - keeps going and going and going.......


----------



## BluesChanteuse

BobnDejasMom said:


> This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
> Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> 
> However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


I don't use plastic for knit _*WEAR*_. I may use acrylic for say placemats or some Xmas holiday items etc...

and I CERTAINLY don't use acrylic for POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE they're "just those poor people".

THIS discussion took off when some people said they use the cheapest yarn possible for CHARITY.

No, I have NEVER knit plastic knitWEAR for charity, only natural fiber yarns that I believe with keep people warm and safe.


----------



## blessedinMO

BobnDejasMom said:


> This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
> Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> 
> However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


I actually remember that interaction..Thanks for digging it out!


----------



## bwtyer

BobnDejasMom said:


> This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
> Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> 
> However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


so - BluesChanteuse - you do knit with acylic - and here we thought you didn't! So what are you arguing about?


----------



## Designer1234

peachy51 said:


> Ok! And you can send me a piece to try


better make two pies as we will all want a piece! nice to know you all. Say hello to me when you see me. we should try to keep in touch -- I will try too. I run into so many people on the workshops I might miss you . not intentially though.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Everday use, as in hats? Heirloom placemats?
I didn't know the poor had a need for heirloom hats.

This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.

However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


----------



## Designer1234

blessedinMO said:


> good move Mercy. Bless


Ithink I will too. I am busy making a *wool Russian Wedding Band cowl to felt*


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> I actually remember that interaction..Thanks for digging it out!


I don't use plastic for knit _*WEAR*_. I may use acrylic for say placemats or some Xmas holiday items etc...

I also will use acrylic yarn to practice stitch patterns etc... That's because I consider the yarn expendable.

and I CERTAINLY don't use acrylic for POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE they're "just those poor people".

THIS discussion took off when some people said they use the cheapest yarn possible for CHARITY.

No, I have NEVER knit plastic knitWEAR for charity, only natural fiber yarns that I believe with keep people warm and safe.


----------



## Rosette

Ok, it is 11pm here and I am off to bed. The fact that a person obsesses over one small detail and refuses to acknowledge all the facts means that having a balanced discussion on any topic is out of the question.
Good night and God bless, my fellow KP people.


----------



## blessedinMO

Designer1234 said:


> Ithink I will too. I am busy making a *wool Russian Wedding Band cowl to felt*


Would that make a tire?


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Blaa Blaa Blaa... I like to repeat things too. Sorry. You said it. Hats for the poor are not heirlooms.
This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.

However, I often just pick based on how I think it will feel tactically and color and/or how that stitch patterns will look with that particular yarn. (Will the stitch design stand out, or will it be more "fuzzy".)


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> Ok, it is 11pm here and I am off to bed. The fact that a person obsesses over one small detail and refuses to acknowledge all the facts means that having a balanced discussion on any topic is out of the question.
> Good night and God bless, my fellow KP people.


Yes, why WOULD you ignore the FACT that plastic yarn doesn't keep poor people warm and endangers them.

Why obsess over a (w)itch on a knitting forum instead of doing the RIGHT thing?


----------



## bwtyer

BobnDejasMom said:


> Blaa Blaa Blaa... I like to repeat things too. Sorry. You said it. Hats for the poor are not heirlooms.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

BobnDejasMom said:


> Blaa Blaa Blaa... I like to repeat things too.


I don't use plastic for knit WEAR. I may use acrylic for say placemats or some Xmas holiday items etc...

I also will use acrylic yarn to practice stitch patterns etc... That's because I consider the yarn expendable.

and I CERTAINLY don't use acrylic for POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE they're "just those poor people".

THIS discussion took off when some people said they use the cheapest yarn possible for CHARITY.

No, I have NEVER knit plastic knitWEAR for charity, only natural fiber yarns that I believe with keep people warm and safe.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


I don't use plastic for knit WEAR. I may use acrylic for say placemats or some Xmas holiday items etc...

I also will use acrylic yarn to practice stitch patterns etc... That's because I consider the yarn expendable.

and I CERTAINLY don't use acrylic for POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE they're "just those poor people".

THIS discussion took off when some people said they use the cheapest yarn possible for CHARITY.

No, I have NEVER knit plastic knitWEAR for charity, only natural fiber yarns that I believe with keep people warm and safe.


----------



## Janeway

blessedinMO said:


> good move Mercy. Bless


I love pictures & this fits this thread!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Nice job with the quote feature again.

Somehow I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who can't figure out the quote feature are also too stupid to understand why plastic yarn is dangerous to knit for the indigent.


----------



## blessedinMO

Does a tree make a sound if it falls in the woods and nobody is there?


----------



## BobnDejasMom

I'm so stupid I'm drooling into my heirloom hat. 

This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Kimmielu

bwtyer said:


> Kimmielu, I am quiet sure she does- she probably has the girls in tears, then turns on the moms for destroying their kids' lives by letting them wear manmade fibers- then when she finishes with them, she'll notice the drapes on the stage are also man made and go harp at the principal. While she is doing that, she will notice his suit is not wool and go find his mother and start on her-- on and on and on , kind of like the energizer bunny - keeps going and going and going.......


 :lol: She can keep going on and on and on. My daughter has a girl in junior high who tells her she is too tall, until my daughter pointed out that all super models are at least 5'9". Hmmmmm.....anyway,her problems are her problems, not mine. Going on like this makes her ridiculous. I have my wonderful kids, food on the table and knitting. Yay me!


----------



## blessedinMO

BobnDejasMom said:


> I'm so stupid I'm drooling into my heirloom hat.
> 
> This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
> Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Janeway

blessedinMO said:


> Does a tree make a sound if it falls in the woods and nobody is there?


Yes, according to TV, as it says 'oh boy, oh boy, here I go, oh, no, hum,' & the tree falls!

Another one: Do you ride a bicycle to work or bring your lunch?


----------



## blessedinMO

BobnDejasMom said:


> I'm so stupid I'm drooling into my heirloom hat.
> 
> This is a post by BluesChanteuse:
> Main -> Inexpensive yarn VS expensive (go to message) Oct 24, 13 20:34:58
> It depends on your budget of course, but when you're able to use more expensive yarn, I do so for "special" items. If there are things that will get "everyday" use, I'll used acrylic... if I'm making something I hope to be an "heirloom" I'll use more expensive yarn.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


you quoting her might have done the trick.


----------



## BobnDejasMom

Gotta go to the grocery store. I'll return for more abuse and redundancy later.


----------



## bwtyer

BluesChanteuse said:


> Nice job with the quote feature again.
> 
> Somehow I don't think it's a coincidence that the people who can't figure out the quote feature are also too stupid to understand why plastic yarn is dangerous to knit for the indigent.


 I can't figure out why people are too dumb to understand why wool is not preferred in some places. Garments and hats knitted from acrylic yarn are light and soft, and wick away moisture. In addition, they will not be eaten by moths or suffer from mildew damage. I follow the guidelines set forth by my charities. Lets see, you have continously called people stupid, uncaring, bad mothers, selfish, hmmm - what are you?


----------



## vikicooks

BluesChanteuse said:


> I don't use plastic for knit WEAR. I may use acrylic for say placemats or some Xmas holiday items etc...
> 
> I also will use acrylic yarn to practice stitch patterns etc... That's because I consider the yarn expendable.
> 
> and I CERTAINLY don't use acrylic for POOR PEOPLE BECAUSE they're "just those poor people".
> 
> THIS discussion took off when some people said they use the cheapest yarn possible
> 
> No, I have NEVER knit plastic knitWEAR for charity, only natural fiber yarns that I believe with keep people warm and safe.


I hate it when people text or talk on a cell phone while driving, drinking and driving, smoking around non- smokers- all things that I used to express my opinion on all the time. Because, after all- I was right. Then, over time as I got older I realized that the louder I got, the less anyone heard. I wasn't getting my point across because they had stopped listening. Your first posts appeared right after I stated that I used a yarn I could afford. I never said that I knitted for charity, never said I used the cheapest yarn possible. You have lost track of what was said. You are passionate about this subject, that is very commendable.


----------



## Designer1234

bwtyer said:


> so - BluesChanteuse - you do knit with acylic - and here we thought you didn't! So what are you arguing about?


unbelievable - so all this was just a rant to get us going! you can't get away with that type of thing here - people can read your posts from day one. So you don't do what you say you do and either that or your are lying. wonder which.

Let's embrace our differences - but not to people who deliberately cause hurt to people.


----------



## Kimmielu

bwtyer said:


> I can't figure out why people are too dumb to understand why wool is not preferred in some places. Garments and hats knitted from acrylic yarn are light and soft, and wick away moisture. In addition, they will not be eaten by moths or suffer from mildew damage. I follow the guidelines set forth by my charities. Lets see, you have continously called people stupid, uncaring, bad mothers, selfish, hmmm - what are you?


[Waving hand wildly] I know! I know! Pick me! Pick me!


----------



## misellen

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... well I keep my guns locked in the closet, but I think I'm going to take all my acrylic yarn out of my stash and pile it in my entryway to scare off any intruders I may have


I keep my gun in a drawer by my bed. But I keep a good stash of acrylic yarn between me and the door. I figure that will keep me safe enough that I won't need to use the gun.


----------



## Kimmielu

Designer1234 said:


> unbelievable - so all this was just a rant to get us going! you can't get away with that type of thing here - people can read your posts from day one. So you don't do what you say you do and either that or your are lying. wonder which.
> 
> Let's embrace our differences - but not to people who deliberately cause hurt to people.


  It is getting me going-to the kitchen to cook dinner, have a clean up and sit and knit a Jayne Cobb hat pattern I got off Ravelry. Thank you for inspiring me. You are gracious.


----------



## blessedinMO

Think we're done? At least for now?


----------



## galaxycraft

blessedinMO said:


> Think we're done? At least for now?


Only if some don't fall for the bait. 
They are contributing to the problem.
Here I am trying to stop it and we have folks just needing to respond to the creep.
*Remember -- A Troll, is A Troll, is A Troll !!!*

:shock:  :evil: :evil:


----------



## blessedinMO

I think the echoes of her own words might have helped.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> Well, whoever gets to Dudley's first save a table and order coffee and pastry! We're on our way!


Save a spot for me too. I'll be there as soon as I get my broom warmed up. I'm smelling an odd odor here, perhaps the smoke from the burning acrylic. sniff sniff


----------



## blessedinMO

:lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## misellen

Kimmielu said:


> since my son has made it to the ripe old age of 33 and has promised me that the first thing he will do around fire is take off his hat, I think I will chance it. And my pies are fabulous. Truely fabulous, as is my knitting, no matter what kind of yarn I use. Troll, go back in your cave. You can not win, because you do not matter. Do you have fun in junior high? That is where your arguement level is at.


Please stop insulting the intelligence and maturity of junior high students. Every once in a while *they* make sense.


----------



## Kimmielu

misellen said:


> Please stop insulting the intelligence and maturity of junior high students. Every once in a while *they* make sense.


  You have a point. Sorry junior highers!


----------



## bwtyer

galaxycraft said:


> Only if some don't fall for the bait.
> They are contributing to the problem.
> Here I am trying to stop it and we have folks just needing to respond to the creep.
> *Remember -- A Troll, is A Troll, is A Troll !!!*
> 
> :shock:  :evil: :evil:


But it's sooooo hard to ignore when she is being so mean --- I know, I'm stopping, I promise.. going knit now. with acrylic! :twisted:


----------



## blessedinMO

I think it goes deeper than being mean.


----------



## Kimmielu

bwtyer said:


> But it's sooooo hard to ignore when she is being so mean --- I know, I'm stopping, I promise.. giong knit now. with acrylic! :twisted:


Uhoh. That's what I said. You know what happened next! It does keep my hands from eating pie tho.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> I think it goes deeper than being mean.


Definitely deeper. She needs help but I don't know if she has anyone to make sure she gets it. Sad.


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> Definitely deeper. She needs help but I don't know if she has anyone to make sure she gets it. Sad.


Indeed. Very sad.


----------



## misellen

Well, things seem to have calmed down for a while. I think I will go knit. I'm making flowers to be added to a prayer shawl that my group is making for a member with cancer. sshhh it's acrylic sshhh,


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> Well, things seem to have calmed down for a while. I think I will go knit. I'm making flowers to be added to a prayer shawl that my group is making for a member with cancer. sshhh it's acrylic sshhh,


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## kwright

I guess I can go back to the ten pairs of house shoes that I am knitting for the nurses at the hospital.


----------



## blessedinMO

kwright said:


> I guess I can go back to the ten pairs of house shoes that I am knitting for the nurses at the hospital.


we will meet up here again soon, no doubt. Have a great evening. See you soon again!


----------



## carrottop71

kwright said:


> I guess I can go back to the ten pairs of house shoes that I am knitting for the nurses at the hospital.


I've been trying to stay out of this, but I offered a lady an apple walnut cake with caramel icing recipe and started to get all the notices in my email. I really was trying to stay out of the loony tunes tonight so I think I will go barf and pile my yarn at the 5 doorways in my house. Between the yarn and the alarm system I should feel very safe unless a fire breaks out and then I'm a goner.


----------



## blessedinMO

carrottop71 said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this, but I offered a lady an apple walnut cake with caramel icing recipe and started to get all the notices in my email. I really was trying to stay out of the loony tunes tonight so I think I will go barf and pile my yarn at the 5 doorways in my house. Between the yarn and the alarm system I should feel very safe unless a fire breaks out and then I'm a goner.


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: You have absolutely topped my night!. Gave a great night. We'll meet up again soon, I'm sure.


----------



## kwright

I have enough yarn for a bon fire, but I don't think it is cold enough here yet. I may need to change my info, since obviously, I've all ready posted that I'm in Texas several times. It doesn't get that cold here. Once in a blue moon it might snow, but we can wear shorts sometimes at Christmas.


----------



## Kimmielu

kwright said:


> I have enough yarn for a bon fire, but I don't think it is cold enough here yet. I may need to change my info, since obviously, I've all ready posted that I'm in Texas several times. It doesn't get that cold here. Once in a blue moon it might snow, but we can wear shorts sometimes at Christmas.


Jealous, but not enough to move, yet. Good bonfire weather here though!


----------



## painthoss

bwtyer said:


> But it's sooooo hard to ignore when she is being so mean --- I know, I'm stopping, I promise.. going knit now. with acrylic! :twisted:


 :shock: It takes practice. I have 57 years of it. She's just like my mother.


----------



## sumnerusa

BluesChanteuse said:


> I'm sure your son will enjoy that pie as the doctors are ripping the plastic out of the deep crevices in his skin if caught in a fire.
> 
> I'm sure as people stare at him because his face was so distorted by scars from the melting plastic that dripped from his head onto his face he'll be saying "_Well at least my mother makes lot's of pie_".
> 
> That's of course, if he didn't die from the serious burns YOU caused.
> 
> But, don't worry, your son's death will have been worth it because you told off that [w]itch from the KP forum!!


You know, everyone here has tried to go on by changing the direction of this thread. I swore I wasn't going to add any more fuel to the fire but you really do have to give it up as there are a lot of credible arguments against your opinion. You are a born agitator. Pity those who have to share a daily space with you.


----------



## sumnerusa

Rosette said:


> Ok, it is 11pm here and I am off to bed. The fact that a person obsesses over one small detail and refuses to acknowledge all the facts means that having a balanced discussion on any topic is out of the question.
> Good night and God bless, my fellow KP people.


Good night, Rosette.


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> :shock: It takes practice. I have 57 years of it. She's just like my mother.


Ooo you have my sympathy!


----------



## pavasa

Janeway said:


> I love pictures & this fits this thread!


Same here, Janeway.


----------



## katyboom

I honestly can't believe that this has gone on and on and on for 62 pages....

I used to tell my boys that when they are confronted by a bully just don't answer back. As hard as it is just don't say anything. You cannot play catch if you don't throw the ball back.

Remember the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit? He got caught by the old "shave and a haircut........." He couldn't resist the "two bits"

Some ppl need to be right all the time and all the words in the world are not going to change them. 

I am done.


----------



## galaxycraft

katyboom said:


> I honestly can't believe that this has gone on and on and on for 62 pages....
> 
> I used to tell my boys that when they are confronted by a bully just don't answer back. As hard as it is just don't say anything. You cannot play catch if you don't throw the ball back.
> 
> Remember the movie Who Framed Roger Rabbit? He got caught by the old "shave and a haircut........." He couldn't resist the "two bits"
> 
> Some ppl need to be right all the time and all the words in the world are not going to change them.
> 
> I am done.


I am done too.
I have tried my best to educate people here about trolls and how to handle them and how this forum works with the report button.
Some want to still be a part of this BS.
So I am out of here and off line.
Happy Crafting you all....see you in the afterlife.


----------



## Designer1234

suzy-kate said:


> Did you know that many washable 100% wools are highly flammable? No? I didn't either, I've been trying to find out if mixed fibres were less dangerous than 100% acrylic, but was finding little data. So I went to my old uni library and came across some info there. Washable wools are made by either: -
> 
> Using chemicals, or bleach and enzymes to strip the outer cells off the wool, this alters the structure making the resulting yarn softer, stops it from felting which in turn makes it washable. Depending on what chemicals/bleach/enzymes are used it can also make it more dense (so it's less warm), less likely to hold dye (so the colours fade), and may become combustible.
> 
> Or
> 
> Wool is soaked in a solution polymer or resin which gives a protective coating (yes man made), and depending on what's used it can make it flammable and some coatings may melt.
> 
> Other washable wools are made from mixed fibers, but it looks like the manufacturing process as well as the mix of fibers may affect how or if they melt or burn. So far I've tried to set three wool/acrylic yarns alight but barr a little scorching they've not actually gone on fire, but neither have they melted.
> 
> I've contacted three major suppliers, but so far only one has replied, there is no requirement by law to carry out testing on the flammability or melt temperatures on yarns unless they are recommended for childrens night clothes or for use in the kitchen. Though companies may test a new material or the resulting yarn from a new manufacturing process, chances are you'll only read about it if it's published in an academic paper.
> 
> When was the last time that you saw a manufacturer recommend a yarn to make a pot holder?
> 
> I'm also told that unless a manufacturer undertakes the full manufacturing process themselves, they may not know how it was made, they just purchased the fibers.
> 
> I've a nasty feeling that I may of opened a can of worms, as I seem to be coming up with more questions than answers, so if anyone's got any ideas on investigating this further get in touch.
> 
> And yes I knit with anything.


It is nice to read that all I have knitted over the years for my kids and for charity and afghans for my parents and kids were not any more dangerous than other yarns.

I thank you for the information. Designer1234


----------



## Designer1234

carrottop71 said:


> I've been trying to stay out of this, but I offered a lady an apple walnut cake with caramel icing recipe and started to get all the notices in my email. I really was trying to stay out of the loony tunes tonight so I think I will go barf and pile my yarn at the 5 doorways in my house. Between the yarn and the alarm system I should feel very safe unless a fire breaks out and then I'm a goner.


 :wink: :shock:


----------



## Designer1234

galaxycraft said:


> I am done too.
> I have tried my best to educate people here about trolls and how to handle them and how this forum works with the report button.
> Some want to still be a part of this BS.
> So I am out of here and off line.
> Happy Crafting you all....see you in the afterlife.


Galaxy craft -- the last pages were a group of us kidding - one woman got some good information. We were not dealing with the troublemaker. I thought you were kidding too. we were actually having some fun together. please don't take it too seriously. hate for you to leave KP over someone like that. she might have been a troll, likely was. hope to see you posting here again -- and please try not to take things too seriously. there are some great people on this forum.


----------



## galaxycraft

Designer1234 said:


> Galaxy craft -- the last pages were a group of us kidding - one woman got some good information. We were not dealing with the troublemaker. I thought you were kidding too. we were actually having some fun together. please don't take it too seriously. hate for you to leave KP over someone like that. she might have been a troll, likely was. hope to see you posting here again -- and please try not to take things too seriously. there are some great people on this forum.


It isn't you folks that are having fun.
It is the others who are quoting the trolls posts and continuing.
Yet they have posted on the other threads about ignoring.

Besides we can no longer ask a simply question about any yarn.
Doesn't matter the fiber or the innocence of the question.
The trolls will hijack the thread for their own thrills or own self-righteousness/ego.
I am done when we are being forced to limit what we talk about.
And be on the constant guard and lookout.

My heart is breaking because so many are being taunted to such extremes.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Bye, maybe I'll take a year off.


----------



## knitnut86

what???? No tequila party tonight???? :-(


----------



## Designer1234

I think it is important to not take ourselves or others too seriously. I know my motives -- I prefer to be a free spirit and allow others to make their own choices too, even thought I don't agree with them.

We are adults and if we can't decide on what yarn we want -- we might as well throw in the towel/ I am sorry that galaxycraft is so bothered that she lets others drive her out. It isn't my way- no one will ever drive me out of KP. there are too many wonderful people here. 

I went out for dinner tonight and had another glass of wine. I have to watch myself!! two nights in a row. 

Anyway -- I am weary tonight - went to bed last night and I relived the thread - tonight I am going to sleep instead. 

I hope to see you all in many places on many topics in KP. I also hope you will consider joining or teaching a workshop -- they are really worthwhile. we have control of what is said and posted there so you are in a safe environnment. I hope to see you all later -- make sure you say hello to me. Shirley


----------



## Kimmielu

Designer1234 said:


> I think it is important to not take ourselves or others too seriously. I know my motives -- I prefer to be a free spirit and allow others to make their own choices too, even thought I don't agree with them.
> 
> We are adults and if we can't decide on what yarn we want -- we might as well throw in the towel/ I am sorry that galaxycraft is so bothered that she lets others drive her out. It isn't my way- no one will ever drive me out of KP. there are too many wonderful people here.
> 
> I went out for dinner tonight and had another glass of wine. I have to watch myself!! two nights in a row.
> 
> Anyway -- I am weary tonight - went to bed last night and I relived the thread - tonight I am going to sleep instead.
> 
> I hope to see you all in many places on many topics in KP. I also hope you will consider joining or teaching a workshop -- they are really worthwhile. we have control of what is said and posted there so you are in a safe environnment. I hope to see you all later -- make sure you say hello to me. Shirley


 :lol: I went to other threads. Laughed at the jokes, was inspired by the finished work, and went thruthe seeking help posts. It reminded me of why I started on KP in the first place.


----------



## vjh1530

Actually, she's becoming a little scary. For real creepy. Almost psychotic. Then she disappears for the night. What happens - lights out at the institution? Computer privileges over at prison? She starts trashing her apartment? I'm not being a smart mouth, I am serious. This is not normal behavior. All that nasty stuff about the burned kid? She needs to go.


----------



## AngieR

Designer1234 said:


> I think it is important to not take ourselves or others too seriously. I know my motives -- I prefer to be a free spirit and allow others to make their own choices too, even thought I don't agree with them.
> 
> We are adults and if we can't decide on what yarn we want -- we might as well throw in the towel/ I am sorry that galaxycraft is so bothered that she lets others drive her out. It isn't my way- no one will ever drive me out of KP. there are too many wonderful people here.
> 
> I went out for dinner tonight and had another glass of wine. I have to watch myself!! two nights in a row.
> 
> Anyway -- I am weary tonight - went to bed last night and I relived the thread - tonight I am going to sleep instead.
> 
> I hope to see you all in many places on many topics in KP. I also hope you will consider joining or teaching a workshop -- they are really worthwhile. we have control of what is said and posted there so you are in a safe environnment. I hope to see you all later -- make sure you say hello to me. Shirley


You are right, Shirley. We can make our own choices for our own reasons. I hope that Galaxy changes her mind and just stays away from unpleasant threads, although we never know when an innocuous thread will turn unpleasant. I enjoyed the bantering on these last few pages as it seems all (almost) were having fun. I was trying to play catch up so I could make a comment without being too far behind. I finally caught up and agree with your last comment. hmmmm, enjoy your wine?


----------



## peachy51

Designer1234 said:


> I think it is important to not take ourselves or others too seriously. I know my motives -- I prefer to be a free spirit and allow others to make their own choices too, even thought I don't agree with them.
> 
> We are adults and if we can't decide on what yarn we want -- we might as well throw in the towel/ I am sorry that galaxycraft is so bothered that she lets others drive her out. It isn't my way- no one will ever drive me out of KP. there are too many wonderful people here.
> 
> I went out for dinner tonight and had another glass of wine. I have to watch myself!! two nights in a row.
> 
> Anyway -- I am weary tonight - went to bed last night and I relived the thread - tonight I am going to sleep instead.
> 
> I hope to see you all in many places on many topics in KP. I also hope you will consider joining or teaching a workshop -- they are really worthwhile. we have control of what is said and posted there so you are in a safe environnment. I hope to see you all later -- make sure you say hello to me. Shirley


Shirley, I have so enjoyed getting to know you and the other members here and I totally agree with you ... it will be a cold day before a Troll like this drives me from the site. And I have vowed tonight to not ever respond to her again ... I really believe that's what we all need to do ... just ignore her depraved posts.

I would so hate that this wonderful site would lose good members because of a Troll. And I have been as guilty as some in feeding the Troll. Not anymore! I promise 

Have a good night and Happy Knitting.


----------



## suzy-kate

Well at least I didn't miss another party.

I posted the info on superwash/washable wool, to show that, whilst some may think that they are using the safest warmest yarn to knit for the needy, they may inadvertantly be using wool where the manufacturing process has changed it's structure so that it goes from an inert material to flammable. What's more that process may cover said wool in a protective film of man made material which like acrylic, could be termed as being like wearing plastic next to the skin. Yes acrylic does melt, but then so do other man made materials.

Should hairdressers be made responsible if their clients after having products including hairspray put in their hair to hold the style, which can then make it very flammable, accidentally have their hair set on fire. 

Think about it, it's far more dangerous to wear a material you think is safe when it isn't, than to wear one that you know requires you to be prudent.

OK lecture over.


----------



## Bombshellknits

Mercygirl76 said:


> Blues Chanteuse, you mentioned Amyknits earlier on this forum. You are so correct in that when she states her POV she doesn't berate nor does she get into serious arguments with her POV. She simply states what she thinks and then moves on. She is helpful, courteous, self-deprecating and humorous. She often shares information she has found out about this craft. Most importantly, she is respectful of others, even if she disagrees with them, even if she is being attacked for her opinions and she is standing up for herself. This is where you and she differ.
> 
> It is obvious that you are very passionate with your beliefs. I, too, choose not to knit with pure acrylics for a variety of reasons. Just because that is the choice I make doesn't mean that everyone else is WRONG. People make choices for many different reasons, all of which are important to them.
> 
> There is no reason and nothing to gain from disrespecting other people. You will absolutely not convince anyone that your beliefs are "right." There is no "right," only choices and preferences. Just like you have a right to your opinion, others have a right to theirs.
> 
> Your posts are so over the top, I am sure that now you are just responding out of anger. You probably feel like you have been goaded by others on this forum. Perhaps. BUT you continue to bring this upon yourself. Several posters nicely told you that they didn't agree with you, Designer1234 stands out in my mind, but that they respect your choices, and to give it a rest. You keep coming on the attack/defense.
> 
> Please know that nothing you post will change anyone's mind. You are now becoming entertainment and are not being taken seriously. The pot just keeps getting stirred up. Please, just let it go. This fight is just not worth it. There shouldn't even be a fight. We should all be knitting. Maybe that will calm everybody down.


Well put!


----------



## Bombshellknits

I have been reading this post, which started out as yarn prices and turned into a middle school #itch fest. Honestly. But, I do have a few comments, and really don't care about any feed back.

*The pie sounds great. I make an apple cranberry. Yummy!

*The discussion over acrylic vs wool is just so ridiculous. I personally don't give a $*&T who knits with what. I may or may not use superwash wool for myself. Hubby hates it. Says it itches. He buys wool sox for winter, but has to wear liners. They're silk. As are the long underwear he prefers. I am actually making him sox. Cotton blend. The man loves cotton. 

I cannot believe the $itchy comments about acrylic vs non acrylic. Seriously? I'll say it again. Seriously? We have nothing better to do than to judge who uses what fiber? You are kidding, right? I am always curious as to who uses what fiber and why. But, I know one thing: MY LYS sells all kinds of fibers, so, they yarn police must not care who uses what. 

And further, if I said HALF the rude stuff that cross my mind I would be so miserable. I'm a substitute teacher, and I'm not on here correcting spelling or finding ways to make people feel miserable. 

Mom got it right, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. And that pertains to no one other than ME! 
Those of you that are bickering, keep it up, it's pretty darn entertaining. When I get tired of that I'll go watch the Democrats and Republicans.
Anyone ever heard of TOLERANCE?


----------



## Rosette

Apple and cranberry pie sounds delicious! Does it use fresh cranberries and could you please share the recipe? Many thanks.


----------



## painthoss

misellen said:


> Ooo you have my sympathy!


You made me laugh out loud this morning, misellen!! thank you for the bouquet and the sympathy.


----------



## peachy51

Bombshellknits said:


> I have been reading this post, which started out as yarn prices and turned into a middle school #itch fest. Honestly. But, I do have a few comments, and really don't care about any feed back.
> 
> *The pie sounds great. I make an apple cranberry. Yummy!
> 
> *The discussion over acrylic vs wool is just so ridiculous. I personally don't give a $*&T who knits with what. I may or may not use superwash wool for myself. Hubby hates it. Says it itches. He buys wool sox for winter, but has to wear liners. They're silk. As are the long underwear he prefers. I am actually making him sox. Cotton blend. The man loves cotton.
> 
> I cannot believe the $itchy comments about acrylic vs non acrylic. Seriously? I'll say it again. Seriously? We have nothing better to do than to judge who uses what fiber? You are kidding, right? I am always curious as to who uses what fiber and why. But, I know one thing: MY LYS sells all kinds of fibers, so, they yarn police must not care who uses what.
> 
> And further, if I said HALF the rude stuff that cross my mind I would be so miserable. I'm a substitute teacher, and I'm not on here correcting spelling or finding ways to make people feel miserable.
> 
> Mom got it right, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. And that pertains to no one other than ME!
> Those of you that are bickering, keep it up, it's pretty darn entertaining. When I get tired of that I'll go watch the Democrats and Republicans.
> Anyone ever heard of TOLERANCE?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

I've been told that there is a group here that likes to gang up and attack people they don't like or agree with and that I'm just your latest target.

I can certainly see how that's the case as I've seen you attack Amyknits even though she's perfectly polite and thoughtful in her posts and is not antagonistic at all.

I understand that I'm openly antagonistic to those types and it keeps the fires burning, so to speak...

But, I'm well aware that the bunch of you have done this to other posters that have come here and you've forced them to leave and I'm just your latest target.

That's OK, doesn't bother me a bit.

But, you should know that others are onto your game too and you're not fooling anyone with two braincells to rub together.

And it still remains that those who CHOOSE to knit plastic knitwear for the need are doing it thoughtlessly and it has NOTHING to do with helping the needy or with charity in your heart.

*So, you can gang-bang me all you want, but the fact still remains that however bad you make ME out to be, I'm still MILES above you as I would NEVER put poor people and children at risk with plastic knitwear once I learned of the facts.*

As "bad" as I may be, I'm still not as rotten as to do take advantage of the needy and children. I CARE if my knitwear would melt into little children's burns or if my knitwear lacks the warmth to protect their little fingers from turning black with frost bite.

If you don't care, then just remember, everytime you insult ME, you're by default worse.


----------



## painthoss

So I've been checking these websites and so far haven't found anything I'm ready to order. There are a couple bags of yarn in the closet, so I guess I'll work those down before I buy any more. I should make it my motto to shop my own stash first.


----------



## blessedinMO

painthoss said:


> So I've been checking these websites and so far haven't found anything I'm ready to order. There are a couple bags of yarn in the closet, so I guess I'll work those down before I buy any more. I should make it my motto to shop my own stash first.


I agree with you. So tempted to buy some new yarn, but stash need to be weeded out.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mercygirl76 said:


> Blues Chanteuse, you mentioned Amyknits earlier on this forum. You are so correct in that when she states her POV she doesn't berate nor does she get into serious arguments with her POV. She simply states what she thinks and then moves on. She is helpful, courteous, self-deprecating and humorous. She often shares information she has found out about this craft. Most importantly, she is respectful of others, even if she disagrees with them, even if she is being attacked for her opinions and she is standing up for herself. This is where you and she differ.
> 
> It is obvious that you are very passionate with your beliefs. I, too, choose not to knit with pure acrylics for a variety of reasons. Just because that is the choice I make doesn't mean that everyone else is WRONG. People make choices for many different reasons, all of which are important to them.
> 
> There is no reason and nothing to gain from disrespecting other people. You will absolutely not convince anyone that your beliefs are "right." There is no "right," only choices and preferences. Just like you have a right to your opinion, others have a right to theirs.
> 
> Your posts are so over the top, I am sure that now you are just responding out of anger. You probably feel like you have been goaded by others on this forum. Perhaps. BUT you continue to bring this upon yourself. Several posters nicely told you that they didn't agree with you, Designer1234 stands out in my mind, but that they respect your choices, and to give it a rest. You keep coming on the attack/defense.
> 
> Please know that nothing you post will change anyone's mind. You are now becoming entertainment and are not being taken seriously. The pot just keeps getting stirred up. Please, just let it go. This fight is just not worth it. There shouldn't even be a fight. We should all be knitting. Maybe that will calm everybody down.


Thank you Mercygirl76, very well said.

It should be noted though, that even though Amyknits when she states her POV she doesn't berate nor does she get into serious arguments with her POV ...

The same group of people going after me here have gone after HER with the same gusto.

I'm just the one who's been willing to push back at their bullying that has been happening on the board LONG before I ever showed up.

So, while I agree with you that my posts have been "over the top", it's only been in response to the same group of bullies that have been going after Amyknits for months, if not years.

I admit to responding antagonistically, and I don't expect the willfully ignorant to change their minds. Just giving the bullies a taste of their own medicine.

The next thing I expect, like all true cowardly bullies do, they'll go home crying to "Mama".

I understand that most people's technique of dealing with bullies is to "let them be and move on", but I don't necessarily agree with that.

If it's not Amyknits, it's me, when it's not me, it'll be someone else. It's the same ol' group that keeps doing this to anyone who comes along and says something they disagree with.

When I stop, they'll just move on to their next victim.

It's who they are.


----------



## blessedinMO

Rosette said:


> Apple and cranberry pie sounds delicious! Does it use fresh cranberries and could you please share the recipe? Many thanks.


I will find it for you. But I think the best one is on allfreerecipe.com. I use it a lot.


----------



## Rosette

Same here. I was looking through my stash for a certain yarn and discovered three bags of wool together with the intended patterns. That's me sorted for the next couple of months


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Here's an idea.

For those people who say they can't "afford" to knit anything but plastic for the needy..

Take some of the superwash wool in your "stash" that's gotten so large, you don't know how to keep it organized and knit some mittens for the needy.


----------



## Rosette

blessedinMO said:


> I will find it for you. But I think the best one is on allfreerecipe.com. I use it a lot.


Thanks for the info. I will have a good look at that site later. I love to try new recipes


----------



## blessedinMO

Rosette said:


> Thanks for the info. I will have a good look at that site later. I love to try new recipes


That is a great site. I have a recipe card box there, and it has virtually replaced most of my hardcopy cookbooks.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Rosette said:


> Thanks for the info. I will have a good look at that site later. I love to try new recipes


Me too, I love to cook. Making some chicken pot pies tonight! Just seems like a great "fall weather" meal.


----------



## painthoss

Rosette said:


> Same here. I was looking through my stash for a certain yarn and discovered three bags of wool together with the intended patterns. That's me sorted for the next couple of months


There you go. Between the knitting I want to start, the knitting I've already started, the spinning projects both planned and in the project books, plus the felting I want to try, that's ME sorted too.


----------



## blessedinMO

Yes. My neighbor brought over some homemade vegetable soup, so it is a nice afternoon to curl up with a bowl of soup and my fur babies and knit.


----------



## blessedinMO

painthoss said:


> There you go. Between the knitting I want to start, the knitting I've already started, the spinning projects both planned and in the project books, plus the felting I want to try, that's ME sorted too.


Spinning is something that really interests me, but I have so many things to do, I don't think I can justify the expense of starting a new hobby....but I sure would love to.


----------



## Rosette

The only item I have felted was a lovely bag made with Noro yarn in orange, brown and other autumn colours. It turned out really good and my daughter took it back with her the following week! At least she still uses it; it was several years ago.


----------



## painthoss

blessedinMO said:


> Spinning is something that really interests me, but I have so many things to do, I don't think I can justify the expense of starting a new hobby....but I sure would love to.


It's not that expensive, if you start with a hand spindle. LostArts explained on another thread that starting with a supported spindle is much easier, as well. I did it the hard way and taught myself with a drop spindle, from a book, way back before the interwebs.

Keep it on your list, who knows when it will work its way to the top.


----------



## painthoss

Rosette said:


> The only item I have felted was a lovely bag made with Noro yarn in orange, brown and other autumn colours. It turned out really good and my daughter took it back with her the following week! At least she still uses it; it was several years ago.


I bet it's gorgeous. The colors sound wonderful.


----------



## blessedinMO

painthoss said:


> It's not that expensive, if you start with a hand spindle. LostArts explained on another thread that starting with a supported spindle is much easier, as well. I did it the hard way and taught myself with a drop spindle, from a book, way back before the interwebs.
> 
> Keep it on your list, who knows when it will work its way to the top.


Oh, I would start with the most basic basic. I do with all my crafts..I need to know the very basic bottom line that makes it all tick.


----------



## Frogger

Tried a drop spindle this past summer--- while they made it look easy I am sort of fumbly but it was a nice sense to see it pulling out into yarn! But for now I will hold off---if I add a sheep or alpaca to my stash hubby will really take note!! LOL!!


----------



## blessedinMO

I remember watching my Grandma...she made it look so easy.


----------



## mmorris

Well said! Well said! :thumbup:


----------



## mmorris

Mercygirl: Well said! Can't agree more!


----------



## kwright

Hey, y'all, one of the guys is sending me some acrylic yarn for my house shoes. Isn't that neat. More yarn for me to use. I really appreciate the gift. It was some that he had and did not currently need. I think it is so nice of him.


----------



## Condia

That is very nice indeed. Happy knitting!



kwright said:


> Hey, y'all, one of the guys is sending me some acrylic yarn for my house shoes. Isn't that neat. More yarn for me to use. I really appreciate the gift. It was some that he had and did not currently need. I think it is so nice of him.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Oh, I would start with the most basic basic. I do with all my crafts..I need to know the very basic bottom line that makes it all tick.


I'm that way too! I like to know the "old school" of doing things before I move on to "new school" techniques.

I think that's a good philosophy for almost anything you do.

In cooking of course I love to use my food processor, but I have good knife skills too. I don't think I'd feel like a complete "cook" if I didn't know how to use a knife well.

It's like if you don't know how to use your knife, then when you use the food processor ... it's like "cheating". But if you DO have knife skills, then the food processor is just one technique of many you can use depending on the situation.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

kwright said:


> Hey, y'all, one of the guys is sending me some acrylic yarn for my house shoes. Isn't that neat. More yarn for me to use. I really appreciate the gift. It was some that he had and did not currently need. I think it is so nice of him.


What a coincidence one of my guys just sent me some yarn too. 6 skeins of Stroll Hand Painted Sock Yarn. He did it because one of the colors is called "Dolly" and sometimes he calls me that as a nickname.


----------



## dijewe

maryann1701 said:


> Nobody has offered yet, the postage will cost more than the jersey, I live in South Africa


 :roll:


----------



## AngieR

Frogger said:


> Tried a drop spindle this past summer--- while they made it look easy I am sort of fumbly but it was a nice sense to see it pulling out into yarn! But for now I will hold off---if I add a sheep or alpaca to my stash hubby will really take note!! LOL!!


Ha, Frogger, I really did laugh loudly with your adding a sheep or alpaca to your stash. I was getting a visual of you hiding them with your yarns "unnoticed". hahahaha


----------



## kwright

BluesChanteuse said:


> What a coincidence one of my guys just sent me some yarn too. 6 skeins of Stroll Hand Painted Sock Yarn. He did it because one of the colors is called "Dolly" and sometimes he calls me that as a nickname.


I hope you enjoy knitting socks with it.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> What a coincidence one of my guys just sent me some yarn too. 6 skeins of Stroll Hand Painted Sock Yarn. He did it because one of the colors is called "Dolly" and sometimes he calls me that as a nickname.


My sisters name was "Dolly". But she didn't knit.


----------



## Janeway

We'll, ladies, I think I'll shave my legs & go to bed. Night all.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

kwright said:


> I hope you enjoy knitting socks with it.


Thanks, it should be fun. I love knitting socks. I'm sure I'll probably pop some of them off for charity, but I'll probably keep a couple for myself/family too!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Janeway said:


> We'll, ladies, I think I'll shave my legs & go to bed. Night all.


LOL! Love that cartoon!

Looks like the person depicted could save some have that LONG hair to be spun if they wanted!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> My sisters name was "Dolly". But she didn't knit.


Ah, but then maybe should could've worn something made with the "Dolly" yarn!!


----------



## impala

When knitting for Charity.
Here is some good info.http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/


----------



## PaKnitter

impala said:


> When knitting for Charity.
> Here is some good info.http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/


It was good to read this again and refresh my memory.


----------



## blessedinMO

PaKnitter said:


> It was good to read this again and refresh my memory.


Frankly, it will be a very long time before I get into this subject again...perhaps even longer than that. :lol:


----------



## bwtyer

blessedinMO said:


> Frankly, it will be a very long time before I get into this subject again...perhaps even longer than that. :lol:


totally agree!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

impala said:


> When knitting for Charity.
> Here is some good info.http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/


It's really sad that some charities:



> 2. Depending on the project guidelines given by individual charities, most recommend that you use only soft, acrylic or other machine washable yarns.


It's really based out of ignorance and a lack of thoughtfulness.

Charity organizations are like people some are good, some are not so much.


----------



## Jokim

impala said:


> When knitting for Charity.
> Here is some good info.http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/


Thank you so much for the tips. I will follow them from now on when knitting items for charity.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Frankly, it will be a very long time before I get into this subject again...perhaps even longer than that. :lol:


To be clear the _nature_ of the discussion began (long before I ever came along) when some people were attacked for _merely_ pointing out that acrylic yarn doesn't really do a good job of keeping people warm and actually endangers them.

Why people would take umbrage at that in the first place is more revealing than some know.


----------



## suzy-kate

BluesChanteuse said:


> It's really based out of ignorance and a lack of thoughtfulness.
> 
> Charity organizations are like people some are good, some are not so much.


And some know that wool is not always a good thing, I've knitted and crocheted baby clothes for the prem baby units that my twins stayed in. Then as now they do not take wool items, be they washable or not, simply because they dare not take the risk of a reaction against their skin.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> And some know that wool is not always a good thing, I've knitted and crocheted baby clothes for the prem baby units that my twins stayed in. Then as now they do not take wool items, be they washable or not, simply because they dare not take the risk of a reaction against their skin.


And some know that, for the most part is bullcrap. "Reactions" against their skin is not common and easily preemptively discoverable. (_And BTW, there can be allergic contact dermatitis to acrylic as well in babies_) And the risk of it being a severe reaction is even rarer.


----------



## suzy-kate

BluesChanteuse said:


> And some know that, for the most part is bullcrap. "Reactions" against their skin is not common and easily preemptively discoverable. (_And BTW, there can be allergic contact dermatitis to acrylic as well in babies_) And the risk of it being a severe reaction is even rarer.


I didn't say they used acrylic either, though they do take acrylic cotton type mixed fibers but wool tends to make skin itch, and with prems they just don't take the risk, especially as prems have a high occurance of eczema.

I'm more likely to have skin trouble with 100% wool than with any other yarn.


----------



## kwright

Thank you, Suzy-Kate, I know where you are coming from. I was a 25 week preemie. My doctor would not even let them put a diaper on me for days. I came home at 57 days. I still can not wear wool.

Back to the original post; I have found 3.5 ozs. of Red Heart Classic for $1.60 a skein at Joann's online. It is not much of a savings, but any amount helps.


----------



## suzy-kate

kwright said:


> Thank you, Suzy-Kate, I know where you are coming from. I was a 25 week preemie. My doctor would not even let them put a diaper on me for days. I came home at 57 days. I still can not wear wool.
> 
> Back to the original post; I have found 3.5 ozs. of Red Heart Classic for $1.60 a skein at Joann's online. It is not much of a savings, but any amount helps.[/
> 
> My boys were 28, they were big 3lb 2oz and 3lb 4oz, they too didn't wear a diaper (nappy over here) till they were about a month old, I'd forgotten about that.


----------



## kwright

I weighed 2 lbs. and 4 ozs. and 14 1/2 inches long. I had eye brows and eye lashes. Daddy said I looked like a skinned squirrel.

My youngest was 9 days late, he weighed 9 lbs. 10 ozs. He's 27.


----------



## suzy-kate

kwright said:


> I weighed 2 lbs. and 4 ozs. and 14 1/2 inches long. I had eye brows and eye lashes. Daddy said I looked like a skinned squirrel.
> 
> My youngest was 9 days late, he weighed 9 lbs. 10 ozs. He's 27.


The twins are now 29, not quite a year later a had their baby sister who at almost 12lb weighed almost as much as the twins and their older sister put together. Glad I didn't have her first.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> I didn't say they used acrylic either, though they do take acrylic cotton type mixed fibers but wool tends to make skin itch, and with prems they just don't take the risk, especially as prems have a high occurance of eczema.
> 
> I'm more likely to have skin trouble with 100% wool than with any other yarn.


1), I didn't advocate wool for preemies, just natural fibers.

2) I never said allergies don't exist, just that it's relatively rare. I completely understand that some people react to the lanolin in wool. You should know that anecdotal stories don't prove anything other than it happened to that individual.

This is a problem in this thread. You people keep arguing against points that were never made.

Three words:_ Loose Superwash Cotton_. And at least it won't melt into their skin if God forbid a fire occur.

Synthetic fibers (_even in cotton blends_) don't let the skin sufficiently breath and preemies can end up with heat rashes because of it. Some have actually been bad enough to cause blistering, which get infections that their little bodies can't fight and the babies die because of it.

Again, some can be pissed at me all they want, but the argument is merely about choosing the best materiel for the charity recipients and not putting them at UNNECESSARY risk just so some can save 50 -$2 or so a skein. (_And I've noticed that many of the same people saying that they can't "afford" it have/are post{ed}ing in other thread about having such a big yarn stash, they can't manage it_)

There's hardly any circumstance where synthetics are a the better choice for the disenfranchised and vulnerable.

They're chosen because they're a good choice for the knitter who isn't thinking about the true needs of the recipient... and that's all.


----------



## charliesaunt

Scary, scary....watch out for the HOT water.


----------



## kwright

The poor dead horse has been put down, it just needs to be buried. The fence post still doesn't talk back, but some people expect it to, and keep talking on the same subject. 

To the original post: I use acrylic as my preference. I have nearly always used acrylic yarn, and will continue to use it as my choice. It is basically all I buy. I don't knit for the homeless, I knit for the ill and infirm. I feed the homeless. I buy my yarn, Red Heart Super Saver, when I can get it on sale. I like Red Heart yarn. I am retired. I am over 21, and I am free to do as I please.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

kwright said:


> The poor dead horse has been put down, it just needs to be buried.


And yet here you are with your own stick instead of the shovel. Do as I say, not as I do hypocrisy.



kwright said:


> I am over 21, and I am free to do as I please.


And there it is... it's about pleasing the knitter, not actually helping the recipient. As long as you're pleasing yourself, that's all that matters evidently.

And no one said you weren't "free" to do as you please. _Another_ counterpoint to an argument that was never made.


----------



## misellen

Has everyone taken their meds today?


----------



## kwright

I'm fine. I think she just has to have the last word to feel okay. I'm done. It's a shame that the thread did not stick to the original post.

There are coupons that can be used for free shipping from Joann's if anyone is still interested.


----------



## vikicooks

in keeping with the original post, while looking for inexpensive yarns at other sires, did you see that Yarn Paradise has closed down?


----------



## vikicooks

sites, not sires!


----------



## mmorris

The best shop in the Asheville area closed because the manager has health problems. We'd all hoped that there would be a buyer.
Biltmore Plaza won't be the same.


----------



## vikicooks

it' sad how many shops can't make it today; high rent, wages, mark-ups so they can try to make a profit- internet is wonderful, but I miss being able to touch the yarn.


----------



## PaKnitter

vikicooks said:


> in keeping with the original post, while looking for inexpensive yarns at other sires, did you see that Yarn Paradise has closed down?


No, I didn't know.


----------



## peachy51

vikicooks said:


> in keeping with the original post, while looking for inexpensive yarns at other sires, did you see that Yarn Paradise has closed down?


Wow, I just got an e-mail from them Nov. 11 (2 days ago) and their website is still up and running.


----------



## misellen

vikicooks said:


> sites, not sires!


 :thumbdown:


----------



## vikicooks

peachy51 said:


> Wow, I just got an e-mail from them Nov. 11 (2 days ago) and their website is still up and running.


they had a message a few days ago saying that they were closing Nov 3. I never even got to buy anything from them!


----------



## blessedinMO

Hey! Is it safe to come in?


----------



## Jokim

blessedinMO said:


> Hey! Is it safe to come in?


Hmm.... .. . . .


----------



## blessedinMO

So how's every little stitch? Quiet afternoon,I see.


----------



## painthoss

blessedinMO said:


> Hey! Is it safe to come in?


Always!


----------



## blessedinMO

Hmm..not bad...just like I remember the place.


----------



## peachy51

vikicooks said:


> they had a message a few days ago saying that they were closing Nov 3. I never even got to buy anything from them!


Ok, I think we are talking about two different places. When I just put in yarnparadise.com I see that they have closed. I have never bought from them.

This is the place I get regular e-mails from: http://www.yarn-paradise.com/promotion/o/4 And they have a big sale every Tuesday.

Sorry I misunderstood where you were referring to.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> it' sad how many shops can't make it today; high rent, wages, mark-ups so they can try to make a profit- internet is wonderful, but I miss being able to touch the yarn.


That's another reason why all this whining about having to pay an extra 50 cents for superwash cotton/wool etc.. is "too expensive" is ridiculous.

The Chinese plastic yarns are making it impossible for LYS to make a profit.

When you have a people in a country that so often value saving 25 cents over quality and craftsmanship, you end up with crap "superstores" and crap products.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Hey! Is it safe to come in?


It's always been safe unless one thinks that truth, honesty and decency are "dangerous".


----------



## CaroleD53

peachy51 said:


> Wow, I just got an e-mail from them Nov. 11 (2 days ago) and their website is still up and running.


There is a yarn shop in the US called Yarn Paradise which has closed. It is not the huge concern in Turkey which ships worldwide. It is still in business.


----------



## Rosette

My new favourite is Flutterby by James Brett. Arrived in the the post yesterday. It is 100% polyester, chenille type yarn knitted on 6mm needles. I paid £3.40 for 100g in Barbie pink and I am making a blanket for a large doll, who belongs to the 4 year old daughter of a friend. It is so very soft. I am using stocking stitch and plan to crochet an edging in either a different shade of pink, or purple, as those are her favourite colours!


----------



## Irene P

impala said:


> When knitting for Charity.
> Here is some good info.http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/


You brought up some important information about donating knits. Thank you for passing this information along. I was not aware of the problem with the color yellow. And I agree, smokers need to take into consideration how their smoking affects the knit and crocheted items. This gives a great reason for giving up smoking! Again, thanks for sharing it.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

user101439 said:


> You brought up some important information about donating knits. Thank you for passing this information along. I was not aware of the problem with the color yellow. And I agree, smokers need to take into consideration how their smoking affects the knit and crocheted items. This gives a great reason for giving up smoking! Again, thanks for sharing it.


Agree there's some good information in that piece.

It's just sad that even some of the charity organizations are so ignorant about acrylic.


----------



## Tennessee.Gal

ladysjk said:


> I want so bad to tell you what a lady should never say!!YOU and people like YOU do NOT know when to back off!! I hate this place any more...no one should be forced and have you stuff things down their throat...eventually this will all come home to haunt you and the others like you....I really really hope that life is better in the future for you, than it has been in the past. I would so much rather have had something MELT on my skin, than have had my skin dug out...I would soooo rather have had synthetics melt on me, than have the bones in my face have to be rebuilt..I soooo do not want another surgery, because once again, my body is rejecting the bone grafts.....I sooooo want to just be happy, and know that I am truly blessed, loved, respected, that the people I take care of are going to do just fine....and that is what I try to do everyday...and sometimes I succeed, and then there are people like you, and you break my heart, and make me relive the past over and over, and that breaks my heart.....and people like you, you don't really care about anyone..it is about you being right....well...goody for you, you lose and I win, you do not know how to feel for someone else, you climb up on you I am right box, and try to change everyone else, and make them feel they are less valuable than you are...that their work is inferior to yours, because they do not have a bottomless purse full of cash,..you make them feel as if their charity items are wothless, because they use acrylics...let me tell you....when you need milk in your house for your children and you see someone in the middle of a rain storm who has no shoes, or socks on his feet, and you make the choice to buy him socks and shoes, instead of milk for your own kids..that is charity, when you find someone that has laid on the floor for 4 days, who has been living with no heat, no food for God knows how long, and they are taken to the hospital and are going to be placed in a home, and YOU dig down deep in your own pocket to buy them gowns and slippers so they have something...that is charity...when you brag about what you spend on the yarn you use to knit for the needy...that is b. s.
> 
> I am taking a break from KP , maybe you and people like you will eventually learn to play nice with others, probably not, but one can always hope.....by the way, when your cap is dug out of someones head...or not...live with it!! Pray for yourself, and not for me, for God and I are very close friends....and he KNOWS what is in my heart..not YOU! I did not ask for your prayers and do not need them....you on the other hand may ask for peace in your life.
> 
> Where there is life there is hope...if there is to be peace let it start with me...I am not your judge nor your jury...a gift from the heart and not the purse means more..it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven....Be still and KNOW that I am God...may light shine to guide you on your path in life, and may the joy you bring others be your legacy...not I bought nothing but 100% natural fibers....sigh...Peace out...


But you didn't take a break -- you were posting again the next day.


----------



## peachy51

For what reason are we still stirring this pot?


----------



## misellen

peachy51 said:


> For what reason are we still stirring this pot?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Some dogs just can't let go of a bone.


----------



## PaKnitter

peachy51 said:


> For what reason are we still stirring this pot?


Because there's nothing on tv?


----------



## Fun knits

Tennessee.Gal said:


> But you didn't take a break -- you were posting again the next day.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Milocat

I agree, some yarn prices are outrageous, the quality is simply not there. I have always wondered how they get away with charging such high prices for inferior quality yarns. I order online from Bendigo, beautiful WOOL at reasonable prices. I have just received an order, I paid $12 for a 200g ball which is $3 for a regular 50g. Ball. Local postage is free if you spend $50. I know that it costs a bit more to mail to other countries. But it is worth checking out because the yarn is such good quality, and no, I have no financial interest. They will send you a colour sample card and it arrives on your doorstep.


----------



## threekidsmom

PaKnitter said:


> Because there's nothing on tv?


ha, ha, ha!


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: Some dogs just can't let go of a bone.


Hiya Peach, long time!. I thought they buried the bone with the dead horse?


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> Hiya Peach, long time!. I thought they buried the bone with the dead horse?


I guess they dug him up. I knew we should have poured a concrete slab over him.


----------



## bwtyer

I am mixing up the cement right now - no way should this start again!


----------



## blessedinMO

bwtyer said:


> I am mixing up the cement right now - no way should this start again!


Big slab. No dig.


----------



## vikicooks

Following this thread has become my guilty pleasure!


----------



## Lostie

vikicooks said:


> Following this thread has become my guilty pleasure!


Me too 
:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

Lostie said:


> Me too
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


And me :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Tennessee.Gal said:


> But you didn't take a break -- you were posting again the next day.


Gee, I guess things weren't as devastating as was so dramatically portrayed! Some people are quick healers I suppose.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> For what reason are we still stirring this pot?


For what reason are you participating in stirring the pot?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: Some dogs just can't let go of a bone.


... as you display your lockjaw.


----------



## katyboom

Oh my. (Scratching her head wondering what the average age of the pot stirrers is)

It is amazing what one can learn by researching and reading the posts of others on whatever subjects they have commented on.... Quite a repetitive pattern presents itself. Interesting reading. I must say.


----------



## bwtyer

For those of you looking for good deals on yarn, I did drop by a Tuesday Morning this morning- cashmere was $19.99 (drool)
I touched but did not buy- did not care for the color. Beautiful wools , mohairs and mixes were anywhere from $4.99 to $8.99. And yes, BlueChanteuse - I bought some really pretty 100% wool to knit a hat or a scarf. If you would be so kind as to post a link for a charity that wants and accepts 100% wool items, I will make sure this hat goes where it can be used. I have gone back over the pages and can not seem to find where you posted any place that prefers wool. Thank you in advance.


----------



## peachy51

bwtyer said:


> For those of you looking for good deals on yarn, I did drop by a Tuesday Morning this morning- cashmere was $19.99 (drool)
> I touched but did not buy- did not care for the color. Beautiful wools , mohairs and mixes were anywhere from $4.99 to $8.99. And yes, BlueChanteuse - I bought some really pretty 100% wool to knit a hat or a scarf. If you would be so kind as to post a link for a charity that wants and accepts 100% wool items, I will make sure this hat goes where it can be used. I have gone back over the pages and can not seem to find where you posted any place that prefers wool. Thank you in advance.


Craftsy is also having a huge yarn sale (some as much as 80% off), but I was good and didn't buy any ... just looked


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> For those of you looking for good deals on yarn, I did drop by a Tuesday Morning this morning- cashmere was $19.99 (drool)
> I touched but did not buy- did not care for the color. Beautiful wools , mohairs and mixes were anywhere from $4.99 to $8.99. And yes, BlueChanteuse - I bought some really pretty 100% wool to knit a hat or a scarf. If you would be so kind as to post a link for a charity that wants and accepts 100% wool items, I will make sure this hat goes where it can be used. I have gone back over the pages and can not seem to find where you posted any place that prefers wool. Thank you in advance.


Is it superwash wool?

Most military charities not only accept 100% natural fibers, but require it for their helmet caps and socks as quite predictably, our men and women are at risk for being involved in a fire.

But, The best thing to do is perhaps call your local hospital or other charity organizations.

As has been said by some here it's true that there are some charities that will request acrylic items as there is sadly short sightedness and ignorance out there. People really seem to be unaware that there's superwash wool/cottons and exaggerate the "risks" of allergies to wool. They also don't seem to know that cotton is warmer than acrylic. People think of it as a "summer" fabric. And while it's not as warm as wool, it's still better than acrylic. Acrylic doesn't let the skin breath and it leads to sweating that _gives the IMPRESSION of warmth_, but actually, because of the moisture created, it leaves fingers and toes more vulnerable to frostbite. Acrylic is also known to irritate eczema.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> ... as you display your lockjaw.


????????????????


----------



## bwtyer

BluesChanteuse said:


> Is it superwash wool?
> 
> Most military charities not only accept 100% natural fibers, but require it.


It is 100% sheeps wool, hand wash lay flat to dry. The military one I found stopped accepting caps - had too many . I assumed from your posts that you knitted for charity with wool so I thought you may know of some. I'll find one.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> It is 100% sheeps wool, hand wash lay flat to dry. The military one I found stopped accepting caps - had too many . I assumed from your posts that you knitted for charity with wool so I thought you may know of some. I'll find one.


I'm not from Texas, I typically knit for local organizations.


----------



## Milocat

Oops, only read the beginning of this thread. Didn't realise that it contained a lot of comments on other things. Silly me


----------



## BluesChanteuse

bwtyer said:


> It is 100% sheeps wool, hand wash lay flat to dry. The military one I found stopped accepting caps - had too many . I assumed from your posts that you knitted for charity with wool so I thought you may know of some. I'll find one.


If you actually read through the thread everyone agreed that charities generally want washable fibers.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Milocat said:


> Oops, only read the beginning of this thread. Didn't realise that it contained a lot of comments on other things. Silly me


Just like most other threads that last for more than 15 seconds. That's what often happens on forums of all types and topics of all kinds. Discussions typically evolve (_or devolve as the case may be_).

But nothing preventing you from replying to what is of interest to you.


----------



## teresep6

question: What are "chinese plastic yarns"?


----------



## In Memory of Scottybear

teresep6 said:


> question: What are "chinese plastic yarns"?


I think she/he means acrylic yarns that come from Turkey or China.


----------



## blessedinMO

BluesChanteuse said:


> ... as you display your lockjaw.


lockjaw - would that be as in rabies or tetanus? Because I can personally guarantee that misellen is not infected.


----------



## mmorris

Milocat: Your Siamese is gorgeous! We have 3 and learned that we don't own them--they own us!


----------



## In Memory of Scottybear

blessedinMO said:


> lockjaw - would that be as in rabies?


Lockjaw is also known as Tetanus. Not sure about rabies.


----------



## sumnerusa

teresep6 said:


> question: What are "chinese plastic yarns"?


There is no such thing.


----------



## ladysjk

BluesChanteuse said:


> Gee, I guess things weren't as devastating as was so dramatically portrayed! Some people are quick healers I suppose.


Not at all..I spoke to my sister, and friend and realized I would be cutting my nose off to spite my face. I like KP most of the time. I am sorry, that I said I was leaving. I am not going to post any snotty, rude or cruel remarks here anymore. I am over it. I wish you all the best....and blessed be.


----------



## ladysjk

Tennessee.Gal said:


> But you didn't take a break -- you were posting again the next day.


Yes, I was. I explained that my sister and friend convinced me not to cut my nose off to spite my face. I am rarely posting though, and mostly back to just looking. I am sorry if I bothered/upset you. Blessed be.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> Yes, I was. I explained that my sister and friend convinced me not to cut my nose off to spite my face. I am rarely posting though, and mostly back to just looking. I am sorry if I bothered/upset you. Blessed be.


Lady, you've been good company for a long while. Don't get driven away.


----------



## vjh1530

bwtyer said:


> For those of you looking for good deals on yarn, I did drop by a Tuesday Morning this morning- cashmere was $19.99 (drool)
> I touched but did not buy- did not care for the color. Beautiful wools , mohairs and mixes were anywhere from $4.99 to $8.99. And yes, BlueChanteuse - I bought some really pretty 100% wool to knit a hat or a scarf. If you would be so kind as to post a link for a charity that wants and accepts 100% wool items, I will make sure this hat goes where it can be used. I have gone back over the pages and can not seem to find where you posted any place that prefers wool. Thank you in advance.


I know! She can post the places where SHE sends all the stuff SHE makes for charity - oh, wait, she can't because she spends all her spare time posting crap on KP. No time left to knit.


----------



## vjh1530

blessedinMO said:


> Lady, you've been good company for a long while. Don't get driven away.


Don't let the fools win!


----------



## vjh1530

katyboom said:


> Oh my. (Scratching her head wondering what the average age of the pot stirrers is)
> 
> It is amazing what one can learn by researching and reading the posts of others on whatever subjects they have commented on.... Quite a repetitive pattern presents itself. Interesting reading. I must say.


Age has nothing to do with stupid.


----------



## blessedinMO

vjh1530 said:


> I know! She can post the places where SHE sends all the stuff SHE makes for charity - oh, wait, she can't because she spends all her spare time posting crap on KP. No time left to knit.


LOL. I don't think knitting is her first passion in life....


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> I know! She can post the places where SHE sends all the stuff SHE makes for charity - oh, wait, she can't because she spends all her spare time posting crap on KP. No time left to knit.


Nope, I'm just good at multi-tasking.

Again, you can attack me all you want, but it remains that at least I'm not so selfish and thoughtless as to put vulnerable people at risk by knitting them acrylic knitwear.

The more y'all focus on me, the more you prove my point that you care more about yourselves than you do the poor and vulnerable ... which is why you claim you knit them items that not only fail to keep them adequately warm but put them in unnecessary danger as well.

Whatever I am, I'm not so rotten as to do that.


----------



## blessedinMO

There is nobody attacking you, Ma'am


----------



## Milocat

mmorris said:


> Milocat: Your Siamese is gorgeous! We have 3 and learned that we don't own them--they own us!


So true, but Milo is gorgeous. He also has a lovely nature.


----------



## blessedinMO

Milocat said:


> So true, but Milo is gorgeous. He also has a lovely nature.


I had an almost carbon copy of Milo...Lost her 2 years ago Thanksgiving. My life has never been the same.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> There is nobody attacking you, Ma'am


Riiiiight.


----------



## vjh1530

BluesChanteuse said:


> Nope, I'm just good at multi-tasking.
> 
> Again, you can attack me all you want, but it remains that at least I'm not so selfish and thoughtless as to put vulnerable people at risk by knitting them acrylic knitwear.
> 
> The more y'all focus on me, the more you prove my point that you care more about yourselves than you do the poor and vulnerable ... which is why you claim you knit them items that not only fail to keep them adequately warm but put them in unnecessary danger as well.
> 
> Whatever I am, I'm not so rotten as to do that.


Once again, she never actually said she knits anything. She just attacks. Such a silly woman! What a waste of time she is, but it is so much fun to push her buttons - and so easy!! Better than TV! Like a Charlie Sheen who claims to knit.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> Once again, she never actually said she knits anything. She just attacks. Such a silly woman! What a waste of time she is, but it is so much fun to push her buttons - and so easy!! Better than TV!


I already said I knit for local charities.

And no, I'm not so stupid as some as to reveal my whereabouts on the internet.

And even if I hadn't knit for any charities, it's STILL better than sending them dangerous items that don't keep their wearers warm.


----------



## blessedinMO

Milocat said:


> So true, but Milo is gorgeous. He also has a lovely nature.


My Siamese was Shyloh..the love of my life.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> My Siamese was Shyloh..the love of my life.


My Siamese over the years were Ching, Ming, Ruby Fu and Nina. They are fantastic cats.


----------



## vjh1530

BluesChanteuse said:


> I already said I knit for local charities.
> 
> And no, I'm not so stupid as some as to reveal my whereabouts on the internet.
> 
> And even if I hadn't knit for any charities, it's STILL better than sending them dangerous items that don't keep their wearers warm.


Why, because we'd bother to care about where you live? No, it's because you are a big fake and a liar. You don't knit anything, esp not for anyone else. You show your self-centeredness and selfishness with every word you write.


----------



## blessedinMO

None better. I wish I could have another one, but I wouldn't survive her, and no way would I leave an orphan.


----------



## vjh1530

blessedinMO said:


> None better. I wish I could have another one, but I wouldn't survive her, and no way would I leave an orphan.


That's a hard decision to make, but a kind one. Kudos to you for thinking of that.
We have a parrot that we have had for over 20 years. She could live for up to another 50+ years, many do. So we have had to plan for where she will go when we pass.


----------



## blessedinMO

vjh1530 said:


> That's a hard decision to make, but a kind one. Kudos to you for thinking of that.
> We have a parrot that we have had for over 20 years. She could live for up to another 50+ years, many do. So we have had to plan for where she will go when we pass.


Yes indeed. My last one was truly like a child, and I could not leave another one an orphan. My DGD has vowed to adopt her, but it is just not the same. I SO wish to have one, but I just can't.


----------



## Milocat

Yes, I know what you mean. It is one of my worries, I have made plans for Milo, he loves my GD so he would be well loved . In the meantime we just happily live together.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> lockjaw - would that be as in rabies or tetanus? Because I can personally guarantee that misellen is not infected.


Thank you BlessedinMO, I was rather confused by that one. ;-)


----------



## misellen

ladysjk said:


> Not at all..I spoke to my sister, and friend and realized I would be cutting my nose off to spite my face. I like KP most of the time. I am sorry, that I said I was leaving. I am not going to post any snotty, rude or cruel remarks here anymore. I am over it. I wish you all the best....and blessed be.


I am glad you are not leaving. There are some truly nice and helpful people here on KP. This particular thread has just evolved into a fun thing. Good for entertainment and laughs.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> LOL. I don't think knitting is her first passion in life....


Amen to that!


----------



## misellen

vjh1530 said:


> That's a hard decision to make, but a kind one. Kudos to you for thinking of that.
> We have a parrot that we have had for over 20 years. She could live for up to another 50+ years, many do. So we have had to plan for where she will go when we pass.


Pets can be life savers. Over 20 years ago I went through a period of severe depression. I was considering suicide (actually planning it) but began worrying about how to make sure my black lab would be properly cared for and treated well. Thinking about him and his welfare caused me to realize what was happening to me. I went and got the help I needed. I have said ever since that Bingo saved my life.


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> Pets can be life savers. Over 20 years ago I went through a period of severe depression. I was considering suicide (actually planning it) but began worrying about how to make sure my black lab would be properly cared for and treated well. Thinking about him and his welfare caused me to realize what was happening to me. I went and got the help I needed. I have said ever since that Bingo saved my life.


Been there. My 'girls' are my life now...well, now it's only one girl.


----------



## Tennessee.Gal

PaKnitter said:


> Because there's nothing on tv?


Because my Netflix movies haven't arrived.


----------



## mopgenorth

vjh1530 said:


> Why, because we'd bother to care about where you live? No, it's because you are a big fake and a liar. You don't knit anything, esp not for anyone else. You show your self-centeredness and selfishness with every word you write.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Condia

The more you comment the more you prove your own point of how nasty, self centered, holier than thou, selfish, and bullying you are to everyone else. You seem to work very hard at it. Why do you expend so much energy trying to have the last word when it has already been established that everyone has a right to use whatever yarn they choose? Is there a point to it? If acrylic yarn was so dangerous there would be MULTITUDES of law suits and it would be taken off the market. It is no worse than other items that are in our environment and homes that are used everyday. Do you realize how utterly stupid you are making yourself look? So glad I don't personally know people like you. The only reason people do this type of bullying is to make themselves feel important and to make others feel bad. May you find peace in your heart at some point and stop trying to make others feel inferior so that you feel superior.



BluesChanteuse said:


> Nope, I'm just good at multi-tasking.
> 
> Again, you can attack me all you want, but it remains that at least I'm not so selfish and thoughtless as to put vulnerable people at risk by knitting them acrylic knitwear.
> 
> The more y'all focus on me, the more you prove my point that you care more about yourselves than you do the poor and vulnerable ... which is why you claim you knit them items that not only fail to keep them adequately warm but put them in unnecessary danger as well.
> 
> Whatever I am, I'm not so rotten as to do that.


----------



## vjh1530

mopgenorth said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you!


----------



## vjh1530

spinlouet said:


> The more you comment the more you prove your own point of how nasty, self centered, holier than thou, selfish, and bullying you are to everyone else. You seem to work very hard at it. Why do you expend so much energy trying to have the last word when it has already been established that everyone has a right to use whatever yarn they choose? Is there a point to it? If acrylic yarn was so dangerous there would be MULTITUDES of law suits and it would be taken off the market. It is no worse than other items that are in our environment and homes that are used everyday. Do you realize how utterly stupid you are making yourself look? So glad I don't personally know people like you. The only reason people do this type of bullying is to make themselves feel important and to make others feel bad. May you find peace in your heart at some point and stop trying to make others feel inferior so that you feel superior.


Well said! For the most part I try to ignore her,which I know is the best way to handle "children" like her, but her attacks on ladysjk was just too much. Rarely have I seen anyone here who is so inherently poisonous as BC. She reminds me of those kids who decided to pick up a gun and shoot up their high school. There is something wrong with her mentally. If you notice she seems to post in the same time frame every day. And no matter what the provocation, she goes offline around the same time each day. Maybe it is bed time at the institution or prison? Or Mommie turns off the lights? I purposely baited her last night just to see what would happen, and she was responding, then poof! she's offline.

Whatever, she/he is not the usually self-centered bully we get here. They may get nasty, but they don't ever cross the line with the types of comments BC makes. That whole exchange about someone's son's face melting while getting pie shoved in his mouth is one case in point. And those comments about "knife skills" was also meant to be creepy. Maybe a troll like her here reinforces the point about being careful about posting personal info and location on a forum. You don't want her type showing up at your door one night to show you her "knife skills" because she doesn't like what you said about her online.

All that said, I have enjoyed the other interactions here. Like Viki said, it has become a "guilty pleasure". I am still hoping for a post of the recipe for that pie, lol!


----------



## misellen

vjh1530 said:


> Well said! For the most part I try to ignore her,which I know is the best way to handle "children" like her, but her attacks on ladysjk was just too much. Rarely have I seen anyone here who is so inherently poisonous as BC. She reminds me of those kids who decided to pick up a gun and shoot up their high school. There is something wrong with her mentally. If you notice she seems to post in the same time frame every day. And no matter what the provocation, she goes offline around the same time each day. Maybe it is bed time at the institution or prison? Or Mommie turns off the lights? I purposely baited her last night just to see what would happen, and she was responding, then poof! she's offline.
> 
> Whatever, she/he is not the usually self-centered bully we get here. They may get nasty, but they don't ever cross the line with the types of comments BC makes. That whole exchange about someone's son's face melting while getting pie shoved in his mouth is one case in point. And those comments about "knife skills" was also meant to be creepy. Maybe a troll like her here reinforces the point about being careful about posting personal info and location on a forum. You don't want her type showing up at your door one night to show you her "knife skills" because she doesn't like what you said about her online.
> 
> All that said, I have enjoyed the other interactions here. Like Viki said, it has become a "guilty pleasure". I am still hoping for a post of the recipe for that pie, lol!


I see I have to go back an find posts that I must have missed. OH no, I just remembered, I just didn't read several of BCx posts. I'm kind of ashamed to admit that I have started using her tirades a comedy relief. She has dropped too many bricks from her load to take her seriously.

You may be close to right about her timing. It may me that her husband or a parent arrives home about that time.

It is sad and it's not nice to bait her but I have done it too. Sometimes it is just too much to resist.


----------



## Designer1234

A group of us who were first dragged into this discussion made a vow that we would no longer answer or acknowledge the person's here who insist on arguing and being extremely insulting. We vowed that if someone is trying to cause problems, we would ignore them, and leave the site - and if someone is being attacked we will pm support to the person being attacked.

Slowly people are starting to place this statement under all their posts and when we leave a nasty thread we post 

EMBRACE OUR DIFFERENCES - (and I always add) be kind 

and we leave. I didnt realize this thread was being carried on by the same people and that so many were being dragged into answering her. I know it seems rather funny- but people were hurt by her at the beginning. 

Please consider joining us. so I say 

Embrace our differences - and be kind.


----------



## Frogger

HAHAHAHA!!! This has been sooooo funny!! That one person is hilarious!! Is it real??? No one can be that strange and be allowed out can they??? Hopefully they have a caregiver if they are a real person!! Thank you all for continually baiting her (him) when nothing is on TV (as is most days) I know that I can always find something entertaining here!!


----------



## misellen

Frogger said:


> HAHAHAHA!!! This has been sooooo funny!! That one person is hilarious!! Is it real??? No one can be that strange and be allowed out can they??? Hopefully they have a caregiver if they are a real person!! Thank you all for continually baiting her (him) when nothing is on TV (as is most days) I know that I can always find something entertaining here!!


The person you refer to is obviously mentally ill and I am ashamed that I have baited her just to see her reaction. As I said, I am ashamed of that and NO I will not do it again.


----------



## threekidsmom

This entire post saddens me...isn't there enough strife in the world, already? Seriously. I love KP for the tips and different ideas. I have learned so much. This type of stuff grieves me and stresses me out. It is like a trainwreck. It is horrifying, and yet, you can't look away.


----------



## bwtyer

I think it really needs to end. She has been more polite in some responses and is very nice on other topics. Need to let the cement dry over the poor kicked dead horse. Nobody has changed their opinions and I am quiet certain nobody will. I added Designer1234's saying - just hoping I can stick to it.


----------



## katyboom

vjh1530 said:


> Age has nothing to do with stupid.


No but age is usually associated with maturity.


----------



## Designer1234

bwtyer said:


> I think it really needs to end. She has been more polite in some responses and is very nice on other topics. Need to let the cement dry over the poor kicked dead horse. Nobody has changed their opinions and I am quiet certain nobody will. I added Designer1234's saying - just hoping I can stick to it.


Thanks so much bwtyer -- I read it every time I post to remind myself. I have been guilty of being pulled into these 'discussions too'
Please everyone leave it go and write the message under your posts.

we are hoping it will expand and many many of us will resolve to avoid this kind of thread instead of carrying it on.

I would love to see more and more of us reminding ourselves to avoid nasty threads. We can recognize each other if we join this endeavour.

Embrace our differences - be kind


----------



## Jokim

threekidsmom said:


> This entire post saddens me...isn't there enough strife in the world, already? Seriously. I love KP for the tips and different ideas. I have learned so much. This type of stuff grieves me and stresses me out. It is like a trainwreck. It is horrifying, and yet, you can't look away.


It is sad, but perhaps it's a sign of the times we live in: divisive. Hang in there, and ignore the negatives.


----------



## blessedinMO

Jokim said:


> It is sad, but perhaps it's a sign of the times we live in: divisive. Hang in there, and ignore the negatives.


That is what some of us are doing. Hanging in, not baiting, and trying to defuse...I refuse to allow the forums be taken hostage..


----------



## katyboom

vjh1530 said:


> Well said! For the most part I try to ignore her,which I know is the best way to handle "children" like her, but her attacks on ladysjk was just too much. Rarely have I seen anyone here who is so inherently poisonous as BC. She reminds me of those kids who decided to pick up a gun and shoot up their high school. There is something wrong with her mentally. If you notice she seems to post in the same time frame every day. And no matter what the provocation, she goes offline around the same time each day. Maybe it is bed time at the institution or prison? Or Mommie turns off the lights? I purposely baited her last night just to see what would happen, and she was responding, then poof! she's offline.
> 
> Whatever, she/he is not the usually self-centered bully we get here. They may get nasty, but they don't ever cross the line with the types of comments BC makes. That whole exchange about someone's son's face melting while getting pie shoved in his mouth is one case in point. And those comments about "knife skills" was also meant to be creepy. Maybe a troll like her here reinforces the point about being careful about posting personal info and location on a forum. You don't want her type showing up at your door one night to show you her "knife skills" because she doesn't like what you said about her online.
> 
> All that said, I have enjoyed the other interactions here. Like Viki said, it has become a "guilty pleasure". I am still hoping for a post of the recipe for that pie, lol!


I cannot understand how you can sling it at another and yet not see that you yourself are doing what you have accused her of doing...

You have taken things out of context and applied things that have been said to something completely different.

Go back and find the post about "knife skills" and see that it was mentioned in a post about cooking!!!!!! And using a food processor!!!!!!
Nothing creepy about that. Not that I can see at least.

Perfect example of stirring the pot. Sure you have a big enough stick.

I am ashamed of you all....


----------



## vjh1530

The "baiting" was to see if she would stay on line to respond or would disappear again like she does every night. It tells me that she is not free to keep going until she feels she is done, that there is an outside influence that keeps her on a schedule. That helps figure out what and who she is. It is obvious she has deep issues, and ignoring her doesn't stop her. She just pops up somewhere else and starts again. If we are going to be expected to police ourselves here, and obviously we are since this vitriol from her has been going on for several days without Admin stopping her attacks (as was done the other day when another thread was deleted after someone posted an unflattering altered photo of a KPer) then it helps to know what makes the bully tick. If ignoring bullies was the answer, then all those kids who are being bullied in schools and don't fight back with be safe - only they aren't, are they? 

What rolls off your back may not roll off someone else's back. Each of us is at a different place in our lives, and some here are more fragile that others. Words like hers can cause real harm to someone who is at a difficult time of life. Look at what she was saying to one person here about her son burning. How do we know how that will affect that person? To those who say, you are just as bad if you confront her - what if we all sat back and let her talk like that to you about your child and no one stepped in to defend you? How would you feel? Deserted and alone that no one came to stand up for you? Then suppose that you are battling a severe depression or have just lost a child and she talks like that to you. 

Not ONE of us here has done what she has done, there is NO comparison. If you think it is then you have not read the entire thread, esp the last few pages. If you have and you still think so then I am ashamed of you. Telling someone we don't accept their unacceptable behavior is not confrontational, it is setting limits.


----------



## Irene P

I always look for the sale yarn and coupons. I would use expensive yarns if on sale, but only for myself or my immediate family. I could not knit one that costs a lot of money and have to worry about how it is being taken care of, especially if the person receiving it has a bad track record.


----------



## blessedinMO

Irene P said:


> I always look for the sale yarn and coupons. I would use expensive yarns if on sale, but only for myself or my immediate family. I could not knit one that costs a lot of money and have to worry about how it is being taken care of, especially if the person receiving it has a bad track record.


Exactly. They abuse the sweater you knit for them by shrinking it in the machine and then concluding that your work is poor!!!!!


----------



## misellen

katyboom said:


> I cannot understand how you can sling it at another and yet not see that you yourself are doing what you have accused her of doing...
> 
> You have taken things out of context and applied things that have been said to something completely different.
> 
> Go back and find the post about "knife skills" and see that it was mentioned in a post about cooking!!!!!! And using a food processor!!!!!!
> Nothing creepy about that. Not that I can see at least.
> 
> Perfect example of stirring the pot. Sure you have a big enough stick.
> 
> I am ashamed of you all....


Thank you for clarifying the knife skills. I had actually stopped reading her posts and so I missed any reference to knife skills. I read another post that referred to it and was wondering about it. I really did not want to have to go back and read through everything to find it in order to understand what was said.

I have to add though. This person reads posts that have nothing to do with her and takes whatever is said onto herself and then decides she has been vilified. What are we supposed to do whe she jumps into any conversation and takes it over?

When she wrote a reasonable response to a post, I answered her in a friendly manner. The next thing I knew, she was ripping into me over something I said that wasn't even meant for her.


----------



## misellen

Irene P said:


> I always look for the sale yarn and coupons. I would use expensive yarns if on sale, but only for myself or my immediate family. I could not knit one that costs a lot of money and have to worry about how it is being taken care of, especially if the person receiving it has a bad track record.


I can't afford to knit with those yarns even for myself or family, let alone to give it away. Especially when the charities I knit for don't even want it.


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> I can't afford to knit with those yarns even for myself or family, let alone to give it away. Especially when the charities I knit for don't even want it.


LOL. Believe it or not, that is exactly how this forum started out last week, exactly on this subject. And then it got hijacked. But you are right. Yarn has become so expensive that it is hardly an affordable hobby anymore.


----------



## vikicooks

misellen said:


> I can't afford to knit with those yarns even for myself or family, let alone to give it away. Especially when the charities I knit for don't even want it.


Oh, oh. The innocent words that started a war! But, this time it wasn't me who said them.I love you guys!


----------



## blessedinMO

vikicooks said:


> Oh, oh. The innocent words that started a war! But, this time it wasn't me who said them.I love you guys!


Oh, no, of course not. But by tomorrow, this place will be on fire again. But in the meantime it can be a pleasant place to chat.


----------



## lupines

Do we need to share our margaritas first?


----------



## misellen

vikicooks said:


> Oh, oh. The innocent words that started a war! But, this time it wasn't me who said them.I love you guys!


It has become difficult to know what it is OK to say any more. You can make a perfectly innocent remark and find that you have offended someone. What are we supposed to do?


----------



## misellen

lupines said:


> Do we need to share our margaritas first?


I think I would rather save them for a more stressful time. I have to be very sparing in my drinking. LOL :mrgreen:


----------



## vikicooks

lupines said:


> Do we need to share our margaritas first?


There was a time when I would have soothed myself with Ben& Jerry's vanilla Carmel fudge ice cream, but I have switched to knitting and crocheting for that evening boost. And I've lost 41 pounds.


----------



## peachy51

vikicooks said:


> There was a time when I would have soothed myself with Ben& Jerry's vanilla Carmel fudge ice cream, but I have switched to knitting and crocheting for that evening boost. And I've lost 41 pounds.


And I think I've gained your 41 pounds! When I was at the doctor a couple weeks ago, I couldn't believe it when she said I weighed 141 :shock:

Problem is that I knit/crochet and snack at the same time ... have to stop that :|


----------



## pavasa

blessedinMO said:


> Oh, no, of course not. But by tomorrow, this place will be on fire again. But in the meantime it can be a pleasant place to chat.


If this thread had just been left to die having a brand new topic started ELSEWHERE this thread would never have gone on for so long. New people checking the list of "main topics" seeing the usual high number pages can't help but be curious and check it out. (Even I'm still doing it to see what else has cropped up. :-( )...But they aren't reading what the ORIGINAL topic was all about, yet they chime in anyway and it continues on, and on, and on!
KP truly is a pleasant place to chat, but it needs to be switched to using a different topic.


----------



## pavasa

Oops! That should have been "unusual high numbers"


----------



## blessedinMO

No! There are a few who watch this site..LOL. It's become like a game. I think it's just that everyone is busy on a Sat. You'll see a bit of action tomorrow.


----------



## lorraine 55

pavasa said:


> If this thread had just been left to die having a brand new topic started ELSEWHERE this thread would never have gone on for so long. New people checking the list of "main topics" seeing the usual high number pages can't help but be curious and check it out. (Even I'm still doing it to see what else has cropped up. :-( )...But they aren't reading what the ORIGINAL topic was all about, yet they chime in anyway and it continues on, and on, and on!
> KP truly is a pleasant place to chat, but it needs to be switched to using a different topic.


I agree .I posted long ago that people should stick to the topic and was told that people were having a discussion that had evolved !


----------



## blessedinMO

lorraine 55 said:


> I agree .I posted long ago that people should stick to the topic and was told that people were having a discussion that had evolved !


There are among us some who are primarily social activists rather than knitters and crocheters, and when they find a forum that can be turned into fertile ground, they descend and do their destruction.


----------



## PaKnitter

lorraine 55 said:


> I agree .I posted long ago that people should stick to the topic and was told that people were having a discussion that had evolved !


I agree...I was so excited when I found the forum and people who enjoy knitting as much as I do, and maybe learn a new thing or two, but now it's kind of hard posting anything without the post being high jacked or someone getting nasty about it.


----------



## vjh1530

pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


Wow! I wonder how many of them they sell? I love luxury, but I try to be sensible, too. And where do you wear a $500 sweater? Would look great with my $15 jeans, right, lol?


----------



## vjh1530

vikicooks said:


> There was a time when I would have soothed myself with Ben& Jerry's vanilla Carmel fudge ice cream, but I have switched to knitting and crocheting for that evening boost. And I've lost 41 pounds.


Congrats! Good for you! That is difficult to do, you should be very proud!

I ate a dish of Ben & Jerry's the night before my cholesterol lab tests once. My results were incredibly high and my internist had a fit! The next time I was due I ate carefully the night before and my results dropped dramatically. He was so happy, patting me on the back and telling me what a good job I had done. I didn't have the heart to tell him the only difference was one dish of ice cream.


----------



## PaKnitter

vjh1530 said:


> Congrats! Good for you! That is difficult to do, you should be very proud!
> 
> I ate a dish of Ben & Jerry's the night before my cholesterol lab tests once. My results were incredibly high and my internist had a fit! The next time I was due I ate carefully the night before and my results dropped dramatically. He was so happy, patting me on the back and telling me what a good job I had done. I didn't have the heart to tell him the only difference was one dish of ice cream.


Isn't that something that eating one wrong food before test can make so much difference in the results.


----------



## Diane from California

I agree I frquently monitor my Tuesday Morning.


----------



## pammash

I'll stick to my Red Heart!! My fav for 50 yrs!!


----------



## Irene P

vikicooks said:


> There was a time when I would have soothed myself with Ben& Jerry's vanilla Carmel fudge ice cream, but I have switched to knitting and crocheting for that evening boost. And I've lost 41 pounds.


GOOD FOR YOU!! When I started crocheting, I gave up smoking -cold turkey! I have never regretted this!!


----------



## vikicooks

I think we should all be proud of ourselves- as a reward, we get to buy more yarn!!!!!


----------



## Jokim

blessedinMO said:


> There are among us some who are primarily social activists rather than knitters and crocheters, and when they find a forum that can be turned into fertile ground, they descend and do their destruction.


Exactly right! Thank you for bringing it to the attention of the KP audience. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Irene P

Jokim said:


> Exactly right! Thank you for bringing it to the attention of the KP audience. :thumbup: :thumbup:


I don't think they'll be doing any good in our group. We're smarter than that. Maybe they should take up knitting or crocheting and learn how to relax!


----------



## vikicooks

pammash said:


> I'll stick to my Red Heart!! My fav for 50 yrs!!


I sent an email to Red Heart, explaining that a skein I purchased had six ends. They sent me three free replacement skeins. I have to say, the yarn they sent was so much softer than the ones I purchased at the shop. Same brand, same color- don't know why that would be, but it it really soft and squishy! I love red Heart; the customer service is awesome!


----------



## blessedinMO

vikicooks said:


> I sent an email to Red Heart, explaining that a skein I purchased had six ends. They sent me three free replacement skeins. I have to say, the yarn they sent was so much softer than the ones I purchased at the shop. Same brand, same color- don't know why that would be, but it it really soft and squishy! I love red Heart; the customer service is awesome!


So wonderful to hear. Red Heart has been my staple for years. Caron Simply Soft also at times.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> So wonderful to hear. Red Heart has been my staple for years. Caron Simply Soft also at times.


I haven't been using Red Heart because it seemed scratchy, but I recently bought a skein of the RH Soft and it was really nice. I expect I will buy more of that. Simply Soft is my usual 'go to' yarn.


----------



## peachy51

As far as acrylics go, I have not found any I like better than the KnitPicks Brava for the quality and the way it looks and feels and knits up.

And I also love their Comfy which is 75% cotton, 25% acrylic. It feels wonderful and has great stitch definition.

Both are regularly priced at $2.99 a ball.


----------



## vikicooks

peachy51 said:


> As far as acrylics go, I have not found any I like better than the KnitPicks Brava for the quality and the way it looks and feels and knits up.
> 
> And I also love their Comfy which is 75% cotton, 25% acrylic. It feels wonderful and has great stitch definition.
> 
> Both are regularly priced at $2.99 a ball.


I like the Brava, also. I am using it right now to make scarves and cowls for Christmas gifts. When I use a size 15 (US) needle, it comes out so soft and lacy.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vjh1530 said:


> Why, because we'd bother to care about where you live? No, it's because you are a big fake and a liar. You don't knit anything, esp not for anyone else. You show your self-centeredness and selfishness with every word you write.


Not true, but attacking the messenger as you are doing is indicative of guilty feelings and those of low character will lash out at others instead of looking within. Your post is self-evidently a display of psychological projection and quite hilarious.

I'm just not stupid enough to let crazy strangers know my whereabouts. Especially when they're of the ilk of mistreating poor children and the disenfranchised. Then again, you've chosen to live in Phoenix of all places, not a place known for it's decency/compassion towards others or educational standards. It's come in dead last on a list of "smartest" states.

Your post certainly does nothing to dispel that perception of Arizona and if anything, bolsters it.

It still remains true that plastic yarn does a poor job at keeping the disenfranchised warm and puts them at greater risk.

No matter how you continue to attack me... that remains true.


----------



## blessedinMO

Is anyone else getting interference on this channel?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> None better. I wish I could have another one, but I wouldn't survive her, and no way would I leave an orphan.


I know of a dog who I believe died of heart break within days of her "Mommy" having died. People don't often think of pet's needs in this way. That's very loving of you.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> As far as acrylics go, I have not found any I like better than the KnitPicks Brava for the quality and the way it looks and feels and knits up.
> 
> And I also love their Comfy which is 75% cotton, 25% acrylic. It feels wonderful and has great stitch definition.
> 
> Both are regularly priced at $2.99 a ball.


Oh, goodness knows, there's lots of nice feeling acrylic yarns out there. But when one knits for the needy, we really should actually consider their needs and be responsible towards them.

Knitting things that are not adequately warm and/or put the vulnerable at further risk than they already are, just seems irresponsible to me.

There is still YET a valid reason to do so posited here.


----------



## Mary Su 2

BluesChanteuse said:


> Oh, goodness knows, there's lots of nice feeling acrylic yarns out there. But when one knits for the needy, we really should actually consider their needs and be responsible towards them.
> 
> Knitting things that are not adequately warm and/or put the vulnerable at further risk than they already are, just seems irresponsible to me.
> 
> There is still YET a valid reason to do so posited here.


Did she say she was knitting for the needy???? Are we not allowed to knit for ourselves or anyone other than the needy????


----------



## blessedinMO

I knit for mostly to give away to others, that I'm the needy now. I need sweater, hat, mitts, socks, cowls...no, wake up, stop dreaming here....


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Mary Su 2 said:


> Did she say she was knitting for the needy???? Are we not allowed to knit for ourselves or anyone other than the needy????


Of course.

Just pointing out that no one ever said that acrylic can't be soft.


----------



## peachy51

BluesChanteuse said:


> Oh, goodness knows, there's lots of nice feeling acrylic yarns out there. But when one knits for the needy, we really should actually consider their needs and be responsible towards them.
> 
> Knitting things that are not adequately warm and/or put the vulnerable at further risk than they already are, just seems irresponsible to me.
> 
> There is still YET a valid reason to do so posited here.


Well, I don't knit for the needy because I smoke, so you see, I'm being much more considerate of them than you may think. I help the needy in other ways than knitting. So I can buy whatever yarn I want for me


----------



## vikicooks

I live in a cold, snowy place. During wintertime, it is often below zero. I own nothing but acrylic mittens and have found them to be very warm. My husband always wore acrylic gloves, hats and scarves when working outside. I have had wool items also, so I do know the difference. What affects the warmth, in my opinion, is how tight the knit is. Anyone can of course disagree with me, but no one can speak about my personal experience except me.


----------



## misellen

vikicooks said:


> I like the Brava, also. I am using it right now to make scarves and cowls for Christmas gifts. When I use a size 15 (US) needle, it comes out so soft and lacy.


I've never tried Brava. I an getting ready to knit some scarves for Veterans so Maybe I will give it a try.


----------



## misellen

blessedinMO said:


> Is anyone else getting interference on this channel?


I think the mental ward is on furlough.


----------



## vikicooks

misellen said:


> I've never tried Brava. I an getting ready to knit some scarves for Veterans so Maybe I will give it a try.


I think you will like it- it has a little bit of a fuzz to it andit feel so soft !


----------



## vikicooks

misellen said:


> I think the mental ward is on furlough.


Hahaha


----------



## peachy51

misellen said:


> I've never tried Brava. I an getting ready to knit some scarves for Veterans so Maybe I will give it a try.


You won't be sorry ... I've used quite a bit of the worsted and bulky and never have been disappointed in the quality or the vibrancy of the colors.


----------



## PaKnitter

vikicooks said:


> I live in a cold, snowy place. During wintertime, it is often below zero. I own nothing but acrylic mittens and have found them to be very warm. My husband always wore acrylic gloves, hats and scarves when working outside. I have had wool items also, so I do know the difference. What affects the warmth, in my opinion, is how tight the knit is. Anyone can of course disagree with me, but no one can speak about my personal experience except me.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

We work out in the cold as long as it's above freezing for the survey equipment to work and you know what we wear...acrylics even though we have wool. It's all about the tight weave and layering.
And for all those who toot their horns about wool I can tell you my fingers are no warmer wearing wool than acrylics holding the prism pole.


----------



## Knitcrazydeborah

PaKnitter said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> We work out in the cold as long as it's above freezing for the survey equipment to work and you know what we wear...acrylics even though we have wool. It's all about the tight weave and layering.
> And for all those who toot their horns about wool I can tell you my fingers are no warmer wearing wool than acrylics holding the prism pole.


I'm just curious, not contradicting you so please don't be offended. This is an honest to goodness question: I've always been told that acrylic and wool offer equal warmth if the density of the fiber is the same. What supposedly differs is the warmth of acrylic vs wool once they become wet. Have you been able to tell the difference between acrylic & wool when it's wet? Once again, I would honestly like to hear from someone like yourself - with real time experience- if the claim that wool is warm when wet is accurate.


----------



## vikicooks

Knitcrazydeborah said:


> I'm just curious, not contradicting you so please don't be offended. This is an honest to goodness question: I've always been told that acrylic and wool offer equal warmth if the density of the fiber is the same. What supposedly differs is the warmth of acrylic vs wool once they become wet. Have you been able to tell the difference between acrylic & wool when it's wet? Once again, I would honestly like to hear from someone like yourself - with real time experience- if the claim that wool is warm when wet is accurate.


My father always wore gloves that were leather " outers" with wool liners. He had to carry extra liners because when they got wet he would have to change them or freeze his hands. My husband just said he has used both wool and acrylic for his gloves and socks for outside work- said he's never seen a difference in the warmth . Both are awful when they get wet! Again, I believe that what matters is how well the item is made; a nice tight knit is best.


----------



## PaKnitter

vikicooks said:


> My father always wore gloves that were leather " outers" with wool liners. He had to carry extra liners because when they got wet he would have to change them or freeze his hands. My husband just said he has used both wool and acrylic for his gloves and socks for outside work- said he's never seen a difference in the warmth . Both are awful when they get wet! Again, I believe that what matters is how well the item is made; a nice tight knit is best.


I don't think there is much difference between wool and acrylics when they get wet either. I wear gore-tex work boot so wet feet aren't a problem. I wear acrylic socks next to my skin with an acrylic/wool blend on top. Same with mittens...acrylics next to my skin and I change the different weight of mittens on top. It doesn't matter what I'm wearing when carrying the prism pole...metal is cold.
Remember you will sweat in all wool and be cold anyway unless there's wicking in the fabric to draw the wet away from your body.
I think this whole thread about wools vs. acrylics is for the birds and not worth the insults.


----------



## misellen

PaKnitter said:


> I think this whole thread about wools vs. acrylics is for the birds and not worth the insults.


You are right about this. However, there has been a problem for a while now. If a poster rights in with a question or a comment, and happens to mention acrylic, the post is taken over and turned into just what we have here.

There is a small group of people that, for whatever reason, have become fanatical about wool vs acrylic. They make comments and accusations that irritate others and the argument is on.


----------



## vikicooks

BobnDejasMom said:


> You would also need to have better knitting skills than mine.


I love your avatar! very cute cats- I have four rescues.


----------



## PaKnitter

misellen said:


> You are right about this. However, there has been a problem for a while now. If a poster rights in with a question or a comment, and happens to mention acrylic, the post is taken over and turned into just what we have here.
> 
> There is a small group of people that, for whatever reason, have become fanatical about wool vs acrylic. They make comments and accusations that irritate others and the argument is on.


I know...this and 'copyrights' seems to put a handful over the edge every time. I just say...here we go again. :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## misellen

PaKnitter said:


> I know...this and 'copyrights' seems to put a handful over the edge every time. I just say...here we go again. :roll: :roll: :roll:


OMG! dont even mention the word copyright!!!!! :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## vjh1530

blessedinMO said:


> Is anyone else getting interference on this channel?


Love this!!!!


----------



## Kahlua

Wow....that is an excellent price...and free shipping too....last year I went on a wool site & put an order in for around 45.00 Cdn...the site was located in NY & when I went to check out the shipping was $84.00 US....I cancelled that order toute suite...

Barbara12


----------



## vjh1530

Vikicooks, are those scarves in your avatar? I love the colors, esp the blue one.


----------



## vikicooks

vjh1530 said:


> Vikicooks, are those scarves in your avatar? I love the colors, esp the blue one.


Yes, I just finished them tonight!!!and did the last square of the eighth afghan for the ladies. I am tired. The yarn is the Brava worsted using US size 15 needles. The blue is called Sky. It's lighter in real life.


----------



## vjh1530

vikicooks said:


> Yes, I just finished them tonight!!!and did the last square of the eighth afghan for the ladies. I am tired. The yarn is the Brava worsted using US size 15 needles. The blue is called Sky. It's lighter in real life.


I've never tried Brava, thanks for the tip! Is the size 15 needle to give the lacy look? I hope you will post the afghan when it is finished. Would love to see it!


----------



## vikicooks

vjh1530 said:


> I've never tried Brava, thanks for the tip! Is the size 15 needle to give the lacy look? I hope you will post the afghan when it is finished. Would love to see it!


I used the big needles because I am so lazy and knew I maybe would finish if I used them. Then , I really loved how light and airy the first cowl turned out. One skein makes a perfect size.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> Well, I don't knit for the needy because I smoke, so you see, I'm being much more considerate of them than you may think. I help the needy in other ways than knitting. So I can buy whatever yarn I want for me


Yes that is thoughtful for you not to subject them to stinky knitted items.

And yup, no-one, nowhere here in this thread ever even tried to argue that you couldn't buy whatever yarn you wanted.

They argued why it's not such a bright idea... but nope, no one is arguing with the "right" to make poor choices for one's self.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> I live in a cold, snowy place. During wintertime, it is often below zero. I own nothing but acrylic mittens and have found them to be very warm. My husband always wore acrylic gloves, hats and scarves when working outside. I have had wool items also, so I do know the difference. What affects the warmth, in my opinion, is how tight the knit is. Anyone can of course disagree with me, but no one can speak about my personal experience except me.


It's not about "disagreement", there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things.

Secondly, anecdotal stories (_i.e. personal experience_) that are not honestly reflective of how many in the disenfranchised community live (_as your's and your husband's was not_), really does not add any useful information to the debate.

I'm happy that acrylic is warm enough for you and your husband even in a relatively cold climate, but it really has little to nothing to do with what it's like to be a disenfranchised person in a cold climate. People really need to learn to think outside their own life experiences and put themselves in other people's shoes -- _if true compassion is a goal_.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

PaKnitter said:


> Remember you will sweat in all wool and be cold anyway unless there's wicking in the fabric to draw the wet away from your body.
> I think this whole thread about wools vs. acrylics is for the birds and not worth the insults.


Actually it's the lack of the skin's inability to breath that creates sweat when wearing acrylic, wool does wick when acrylic doesn't.

And I think the discussion is "worth it" because I care about the vulnerable's needs.

What's just "silly details" to you, can be life and death to the vulnerable.

It's not "worth it" because you're not the one at risk and don't think much beyond that.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> You are right about this. However, there has been a problem for a while now. If a poster rights in with a question or a comment, and happens to mention acrylic, the post is taken over and turned into just what we have here.
> 
> There is a small group of people that, for whatever reason, have become fanatical about wool vs acrylic. They make comments and accusations that irritate others and the argument is on.


Actually, what happens is that someone merely MENTIONS the benefits of wool over acrylics and the same group of people that I describe in my signature have hissy fits and attack the poster for merely pointing those benefits out by calling them "snobs" etc...

What's been happening in this thread is merely push back at that bullying.

And yes, we get it. Some people think the poor are of little import so why get in a huff about these things? It's exactly that attitude that serves as such a disservice to the charity recipients who get stuck with knitwear that in inadequately warm and particularly dangerous to those who are at higher risk of being hurt by fire.


----------



## peachy51

...


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> ...


----------



## misellen

peachy51 said:


> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: call out the cement brigade


----------



## bwtyer

Can't understand why that cement is cracking - mixing up another layer.


----------



## painthoss

vikicooks said:


> Yes, I just finished them tonight!!!and did the last square of the eighth afghan for the ladies. I am tired. The yarn is the Brava worsted using US size 15 needles. The blue is called Sky. It's lighter in real life.


They're beautiful, vikicooks, love the colors. The pattern looks like it would work well for a project I have in mind for this winter, a cowl from handspun alpaca. Can you share or is it proprietary?

thanks.


----------



## vikicooks

BluesChanteuse said:


> It's not about "disagreement", there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things.
> 
> Secondly, anecdotal stories (_i.e. personal experience_) that are not honestly reflective of how many in the disenfranchised community live (_as your's and your husband's was not_), really does not add any useful information to the debate.
> 
> I'm happy that acrylic is warm enough for you and your husband even in a relatively cold climate, but it really has little to nothing to do with what it's like to be a disenfranchised person in a cold climate. People really need to learn to think outside their own life experiences and put themselves in other people's shoes -- _if true compassion is a goal_.


I realize this is crazy to try and answer you back, but I have to ask you why a man working on the bob/ luge run , standing on ice in below zero weather for 12 hours a day, Or making snow at the mountain at 2 am when it's -20 is not the same cold experience as a homeless person? My husband did both of those jobs- was he warmer because he was getting paid? I really don't understand your reasoning. And, to keep the record straight- it was you and two others who said unkind things about the fact that I said I use acrylic yarn. Maybe you need to read back through your posts, because it was You who said I could find better yarn " if I gave a damn". That turned it personal. My post did add to the discussion regarding wearing wool vs acrylic outside- did your response? Tell us Your experience wearing one or the other- that was the question.


----------



## vjh1530

BluesChanteuse said:


> Not true, but attacking the messenger as you are doing is indicative of guilty feelings and those of low character will lash out at others instead of looking within. Your post is self-evidently a display of psychological projection and quite hilarious.
> 
> I'm just not stupid enough to let crazy strangers know my whereabouts. Especially when they're of the ilk of mistreating poor children and the disenfranchised. Then again, you've chosen to live in Phoenix of all places, not a place known for it's decency/compassion towards others or educational standards. It's come in dead last on a list of "smartest" states.
> 
> Your post certainly does nothing to dispel that perception of Arizona and if anything, bolsters it.
> 
> It still remains true that plastic yarn does a poor job at keeping the disenfranchised warm and puts them at greater risk.
> 
> No matter how you continue to attack me... that remains true.


Well, you should know all about crazy strangers . . . . . since you are one . . . .

How do you know where I live? Google maps with satellite features are a wonderful tool to set up a false address and persona. You can talk about the neighborhood you claim to live in because you can pull up the satellite pics and describe what you see. You can talk about local businesses by googling "yarn shops in Phoenix" - and many of the shop sites come with photos of the store as well. I can go to facebook and find a photo for my avatar. Choose a career and go to the professional website to pick up some of the vocabulary so you can talk about it intelligently. I could go on but you get the picture.

Thing is, when you describe yourself as "in hiding", people look for clues in your posts as to where you live. If you post a fake location they think they know so they don't bother to look.

Find a new word for "disenfranchised" by the way, you use it in every post. It's getting boring.

And no one is attacking you. They are simply stating their opinions. I guess if it makes you feel important to believe we care enough about you to attack you, go for it.


----------



## vjh1530

vikicooks said:


> I used the big needles because I am so lazy and knew I maybe would finish if I used them. Then , I really loved how light and airy the first cowl turned out. One skein makes a perfect size.


I like the idea of a lacy cowl. Some days it isn't cold enough for a heavy thick one, but they look so pretty as a fashion statement. Did you get the pattern at Knitpicks?


----------



## katyboom

vjh1530 said:


> *Well, you should know all about crazy strangers . . . . . since you are one . . . . *
> 
> *And no one is attacking you. *They are simply stating their opinions. I guess if it makes you feel important to believe we care enough about you to attack you, go for it.


Really???

Explain......

How is your post any different???


----------



## vikicooks

vjh1530 said:


> I like the idea of a lacy cowl. Some days it isn't cold enough for a heavy thick one, but they look so pretty as a fashion statement. Did you get the pattern at Knitpicks?


I can't remember where I found the pattern- copied it down from somewhere: rows 1-4 are knit
Row 5- knit 2 ( yarn over, knit two together) repeat those middle steps until the last two stitches, knit them. 
Repeat the five rows until desired length. For a scarf I end with four knit rows. For a cowl, I end with one knit row instead of four so there isn't eight knit rows together. I have been using one full skein of the Brava for each. They are lovely!oh- I forgot to say cast on 36.


----------



## PaKnitter

Both the colors and the pattern make this an especially pretty cowl.


----------



## painthoss

vikicooks said:


> I can't remember where I found the pattern- copied it down from somewhere: rows 1-4 are knit
> Row 5- knit 2 ( yarn over, knit two together) repeat those middle steps until the last two stitches, knit them.
> Repeat the five rows until desired length. For a scarf I end with four knit rows. For a cowl, I end with one knit row instead of four so there isn't eight knit rows together. I have been using one full skein of the Brava for each. They are lovely!oh- I forgot to say cast on 36.


Thank you!! I will try this, it's a very attractive, un-fussy design.

The Knitty wrap pattern called Wisp has blocks of 9 consecutive rows of your row 5, alternating with blocks of garter stitch. Same as your design, but different.

:lol:


----------



## vikicooks

painthoss said:


> Thank you!! I will try this, it's a very attractive, un-fussy design.
> 
> The Knitty wrap pattern called Wisp has blocks of 9 consecutive rows of your row 5, alternating with blocks of garter stitch. Same as your design, but different.
> 
> :lol:


I need a better way to organize my patterns- I have them in too many places- can never find the same one twice!


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> It's not about "disagreement", there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things.
> 
> Secondly, anecdotal stories (_i.e. personal experience_) that are not honestly reflective of how many in the disenfranchised community live (_as your's and your husband's was not_), really does not add any useful information to the debate.
> 
> I'm happy that acrylic is warm enough for you and your husband even in a relatively cold climate, but it really has little to nothing to do with what it's like to be a disenfranchised person in a cold climate. People really need to learn to think outside their own life experiences and put themselves in other people's shoes -- _if true compassion is a goal_.


Oh good grief, the broken record just yammers on :thumbdown: 
go take your meds and calm down.


----------



## misellen

vikicooks said:


> I realize this is crazy to try and answer you back, but I have to ask you why a man working on the bob/ luge run , standing on ice in below zero weather for 12 hours a day, Or making snow at the mountain at 2 am when it's -20 is not the same cold experience as a homeless person? My husband did both of those jobs- was he warmer because he was getting paid? I really don't understand your reasoning. And, to keep the record straight- it was you and two others who said unkind things about the fact that I said I use acrylic yarn. Maybe you need to read back through your posts, because it was You who said I could find better yarn " if I gave a damn". That turned it personal. My post did add to the discussion regarding wearing wool vs acrylic outside- did your response? Tell us Your experience wearing one or the other- that was the question.


You don't understand. She is NOT reasoning, she is incapable of it.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> I realize this is crazy to try and answer you back, but I have to ask you why a man working on the bob/ luge run , standing on ice in below zero weather for 12 hours a day, Or making snow at the mountain at 2 am when it's -20 is not the same cold experience as a homeless person?


Because you know darn well, when he's cold enough, there's a place for him to go be it a running car/truck or trailer nearby --- (_and if he doesn't you should speak to a lawyer and sue for illegal workplace conditions_) and therefore he'd never have to subject himself to the point of frostbite. Not to mention he can probably afford to layer and he can change items when they get too wet.

Secondly, you can tell your BS "_acrylic keeps my snowman of a husband warm enough_" story all you want, but science is science, not anecdotal stories invented and/or tweaked to win an argument on a discussion board.

It's simply a scientific fact that wool is MUCH warmer than acrylic.

If your husband working in those conditions never needed to change outerwear or go into a heated area to warm up while wearing one layer of acrylics either he's got "superman's" regulatory system, or the "story" that's being told isn't the full story.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> Maybe you need to read back through your posts, because it was You who said I could find better yarn " if I gave a damn". That turned it personal. My post did add to the discussion regarding wearing wool vs acrylic outside- did your response? Tell us Your experience wearing one or the other- that was the question.


Maybe you need to read back through various threads here (where the world doesn't not revolve around JUST you) and not that this is just the latest circumstance where someone "dared" to point out why acrylic yarn wasn't a wise choice and then the same group as in other threads start having the hissy fits and throwing the "yarn snob" term around.

It is THEN when people sometimes respond IN KIND.


----------



## vikicooks

My husband, the snowman- said for me to stop trying to reason with someone who has never been outside in those conditions. He has enjoyed your remarks and says women are so mean to each other. I hope that's not true. I am going to prove him wrong by shutting up now.


----------



## Irene P

Mary Su 2 said:


> Did she say she was knitting for the needy???? Are we not allowed to knit for ourselves or anyone other than the needy????


I guess we all are NEEDY to some extent - We NEED to knit, and we NEED to satisfy the urge to give to others. This surely does leave a special feeling and no one should be denied their efforts.


----------



## Irene P

vikicooks said:


> I need a better way to organize my patterns- I have them in too many places- can never find the same one twice!


Put the ones you like on your computer. Set up a file for knitting and another for crocheting or what other crafts you do. I've done this and found it so easy to find a pattern that I designed myself or found - no going crazy looking for it!


----------



## vikicooks

Irene P said:


> Put the ones you like on your computer. Set up a file for knitting and another for crocheting or what other crafts you do. I've done this and found it so easy to find a pattern that I designed myself or found - no going crazy looking for it!


Collecting the patterns is very addictive. I have a hard cover binder that is full, many stored in IBooks on my IPad and more linked to my homepage! I am trying to print them all out, because i really like having that paper copy in front of me( my age is showing). do you print your's out?


----------



## Irene P

vikicooks said:


> Collecting the patterns is very addictive. I have a hard cover binder that is full, many stored in IBooks on my IPad and more linked to my homepage! I am trying to print them all out, because i really like having that paper copy in front of me( my age is showing). do you print your's out?


Yes, I do. This works fine when I want to make some changes in a pattern that I designed. I print it, do whatever I would like to have, and make some changes in what I have on the computer and save it using a different name. I then have two different patterns - that I may want to "recreate" another time (imagination works wonders!). Sometimes, I see a printed pattern but want to make an alteration for my own personal use. By printing it, I again can make the changes and log them. Give it a try.


----------



## vikicooks

Irene P said:


> Yes, I do. This works fine when I want to make some changes in a pattern that I designed. I print it, do whatever I would like to have, and make some changes in what I have on the computer and save it using a different name. I then have two different patterns - that I may want to "recreate" another time (imagination works wonders!). Sometimes, I see a printed pattern but want to make an alteration for my own personal use. By printing it, I again can make the changes and log them. Give it a try.


Thanks! I'm going to try and condense them all into a neat , organized file.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> My husband, the snowman- said for me to stop trying to reason with someone who has never been outside in those conditions. He has enjoyed your remarks and says women are so mean to each other. I hope that's not true. I am going to prove him wrong by shutting up now.


He has little to no idea what conditions I've been in. As a matter of fact, neither of you even know whether I'm a man or a woman.

Just some more statements made from complete mis/dis/incomplete information.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Irene P said:


> I guess we all are NEEDY to some extent - We NEED to knit, and we NEED to satisfy the urge to give to others. This surely does leave a special feeling and no one should be denied their efforts.


Actually I think people who are knitting insufficiently warm and potentially dangerous items probably SHOULD be denied their "efforts".


----------



## misellen

Irene P said:


> Put the ones you like on your computer. Set up a file for knitting and another for crocheting or what other crafts you do. I've done this and found it so easy to find a pattern that I designed myself or found - no going crazy looking for it!


I have all of mine on the computer divided this way and then further categorized into hats, socks, sweaters etc etc.

It works well.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> He has little to no idea what conditions I've been in. As a matter of fact, neither of you even know whether I'm a man or a woman.
> 
> Just some more statements made from complete mis/dis/incomplete information.


Whatever you are, you need psychiatric help.


----------



## PaKnitter

vikicooks said:


> My husband, the snowman- said for me to stop trying to reason with someone who has never been outside in those conditions. He has enjoyed your remarks and says women are so mean to each other. I hope that's not true. I am going to prove him wrong by shutting up now.


Smart man...I think your husband is correct. Men may be stronger physcially but women can stir up a whole lot of crap and keep it going for ever which suggest the distrubed person is a woman to.

I think this is just going back and forth because all of us feel safe behind our user's name. In real life we would cross the street to get away from this disturbed person and not want to get involved.

She is using us for her entertainment. Disturbed people are not stupid just crazy. (just my thoughts which mean nothing to anyone but me)

I am already collecting knitting ideas for 2014 and use an old fashion filing cabinet and have my paper patterns sorted into folders as crochet, knitting, plastic canvas, holiday decorating ideas and separate folders for dishcloths, because I'm a dishcloth junkie, and one for my charity work broken down into babies, children, teens, women and men.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> Whatever you are, you need psychiatric help.


Classic psychological projection:



> Psychological projection: a defense mechanism in which a person unconsciously rejects his or *her own unacceptable attributes *by ascribing them to others. For example, a person who is in need of psychiatric help will accuse others of needing it.


Again. All I and others did was merely point out that plastic yarn is not the most thoughtful choice when it comes to gifting loved ones and especially charitable gifts.

1) People whose motivations are pure, would've taken the information and said "Oh, maybe I need to rethink using acrylic as I want the vulnerable people I'm knitting for to be safe and to give them the best chance possible at staying warm in extraordinary circumstances.

2) Those whose motivations are selfish, will buck back at the information because they don't REALLY care about the people they're knitting for, they care more about giving the APPEARANCE of benevolence.

Each time one makes insulting comments to me and others who merely wanted to provide some honest food for thought, prove, in their response that it is the latter scenario that is most reflective of their TRUE motivations.

It's demonstrably more important to accuse me of being crazy, than it is to just be thoughtful towards the vulnerable and disenfranchised.


----------



## vikicooks

PaKnitter said:


> Smart man...I think your husband is correct. Men may be stronger physcially but women can stir up a whole lot of crap and keep it going for ever which suggest the distrubed person is a woman to.
> 
> I think this is just going back and forth because all of us feel safe behind our user's name. In real life we would cross the street to get away from this disturbed person and not want to get involved.
> 
> She is using us for her entertainment. Disturbed people are not stupid just crazy. (just my thoughts which mean nothing to anyone but me)
> 
> I am already collecting knitting ideas for 2014 and use an old fashion filing cabinet and have my paper patterns sorted into folders as crochet, knitting, plastic canvas, holiday decorating ideas and separate folders for dishcloths, because I'm a dishcloth junkie, and one for my charity work broken down into babies, children, teens, women and men.


Maybe that will be my New Year's promise: get organized and Stay organized! 
I also plan to really learn how to knit; not just the simple things I can do, but more complicated things I want to do. I am going to do some of the workshops.


----------



## vikicooks

PaKnitter said:


> Smart man...I think your husband is correct. Men may be stronger physcially but women can stir up a whole lot of crap and keep it going for ever which suggest the distrubed person is a woman to.
> 
> I think this is just going back and forth because all of us feel safe behind our user's name. In real life we would cross the street to get away from this disturbed person and not want to get involved.
> 
> She is using us for her entertainment. Disturbed people are not stupid just crazy. (just my thoughts which mean nothing to anyone but me)
> 
> I am already collecting knitting ideas for 2014 and use an old fashion filing cabinet and have my paper patterns sorted into folders as crochet, knitting, plastic canvas, holiday decorating ideas and separate folders for dishcloths, because I'm a dishcloth junkie, and one for my charity work broken down into babies, children, teens, women and men.


Maybe that will be my New Year's promise: get organized and Stay organized! 
I also plan to really learn how to knit; not just the simple things I can do, but more complicated things I want to do. I am going to do some of the workshops.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

PaKnitter said:


> Smart man...I think your husband is correct. Men may be stronger physcially but women can stir up a whole lot of crap and keep it going for ever which suggest the distrubed person is a woman to.
> 
> I think this is just going back and forth because all of us feel safe behind our user's name. In real life we would cross the street to get away from this disturbed person and not want to get involved.
> 
> She is using us for her entertainment. Disturbed people are not stupid just crazy. (just my thoughts which mean nothing to anyone but me)
> 
> I am already collecting knitting ideas for 2014 and use an old fashion filing cabinet and have my paper patterns sorted into folders as crochet, knitting, plastic canvas, holiday decorating ideas and separate folders for dishcloths, because I'm a dishcloth junkie, and one for my charity work broken down into babies, children, teens, women and men.


I agree, in "real life" I don't think many would be so blatant in defending the "right" to put poor people at risk with plastic yarn. Looking people in the eye when you're being thoughtless and selfish is difficult in person.

It's much easier to call people crazy on a bulletin board than to just do the right thing.

Again, calling me crazy reveals what more important to you.

Call me a crazy biatch all you want.

But, I'm STILL not so ignorant and selfish as to foist plastic yarn off onto the needy _under the pretense_ of altruism. It seems the motivations are as fake as the yarn itself.

I'm just a crazy biatch who _at least_ knows that it's more important to worry about the needs of the poor than it is to defend the use of plastic yarn.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> Maybe that will be my New Year's promise: get organized and Stay organized!
> I also plan to really learn how to knit; not just the simple things I can do, but more complicated things I want to do. I am going to do some of the workshops.





vikicooks said:


> Maybe that will be my New Year's promise: get organized and Stay organized!
> I also plan to really learn how to knit; not just the simple things I can do, but more complicated things I want to do. I am going to do some of the workshops.


Say it again?


----------



## ptober

I would only pay those prices if:

I had already made the pattern and loved it

I made the pattern and it fit

I was not tired of the pattern 

I could justify the expense


----------



## vikicooks

There is a wonderful lady at the nursing home who is 101 years old. Her dementia is getting worse; she sits across the room and yells " you are a liar! You son - of - a- #####.stop talking about me! I will get my gun and shoot you" she does this for 12 hours a day, unless someone talks directly to her. Then, she is very quiet and won't say a word. The other ladies are very understanding of her, but after so many hours of listening to the rants, they get sick of it. The daughter has no idea what goes on, because the lady is an angel when she's there. But, the minute she leaves and the other ladies start talking about anything, C starts screaming " shut up! You're talking about me! Stop abusing me!" . She really is sweet, but I feel bad about my mom having to hear that all day and night. Today I am checking to see if she has a computer in her room, because this is starting to sound familiar. See you on the other threads, friends!


----------



## Irene P

BluesChanteuse said:


> Actually I think people who are knitting insufficiently warm and potentially dangerous items probably SHOULD be denied their "efforts".


You are entitled to your opinion. I feel sorry for you. Please stop feeling angry. It's not healthy.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> Again. All I and others did was merely point out that plastic yarn is not the most thoughtful choice when it comes to gifting loved ones and especially charitable gifts.
> 
> .


It's interesting how you put yourself first in this remark. In fact, the others pointed out their objections to acrylic and then went about their business like reasonable people. You are the one who came later and took it up as an obsession. Sign of a sick mind, You Need Help.

I am not responding to the rest of your rant because it is not worth my time.

Go Get Help.


----------



## knittinz

BluesChanteuse said:


> Again.
> All I and others did was merely point out that plastic yarn is not the most thoughtful choice when it comes to gifting loved ones and especially charitable gifts.
> 
> If only that was the extent of it! If only you had 'merely' stated your opinion and moved on. Your argument was not only aggressive but you were incredibly rude to the very people you were trying to convert. There are ways and means of getting a point across and what you have done is quite the opposite. People have now lost interest in your argument, and unfortunately only see you as a source of amusement. You could have tried dealing with the issue in a positive way, i.e. recommending wool that you have seen at good prices. At the very least you could have provided data to show why acrylic is so very bad perhaps then, people would have taken you seriously. It's a real shame that you continue on with rudeness and personal attacks. It is time for this to stop.


----------



## Kahlua

Not everyone that loves knitting can afford to pay for anything but acrylic....it really has nothing to do with their choice of yarn....I knit both acrylic & various types of wool...I will knit what I can afford.....being critical of what other people are doing for either their loved ones or donating to charity has nothing to do with anyone else.

Barbara12...female...& a senior...that has no problem divulging who, what & where I am.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

vikicooks said:


> There is a wonderful lady at the nursing home who is 101 years old. Her dementia is getting worse; she sits across the room and yells " you are a liar! You son - of - a- #####.stop talking about me! I will get my gun and shoot you" she does this for 12 hours a day, unless someone talks directly to her. Then, she is very quiet and won't say a word. The other ladies are very understanding of her, but after so many hours of listening to the rants, they get sick of it. The daughter has no idea what goes on, because the lady is an angel when she's there. But, the minute she leaves and the other ladies start talking about anything, C starts screaming " shut up! You're talking about me! Stop abusing me!" . She really is sweet, but I feel bad about my mom having to hear that all day and night. Today I am checking to see if she has a computer in her room, because this is starting to sound familiar. See you on the other threads, friends!


Then there are those people in nursing homes who abuse the elderly patients . Those nursing homes need to check if people are using their computers as the temperament of the abusers who care nothing for the needy and then whine that THEY are the victims, is all too familiar in this thread.

Again, all I am is someone who is sticking to facts. It seems to me it's those who insists on casting themselves as victims because someone DARED to mention that plastic thread is not a loving/thoughtful choice when knitting for the needy that have the TRUE unbalanced pathology here.

Whatever I am, at least I'm not so rotten as to take advantage of the needy so that I can create the APPEARANCE of altruism.

The more you attack me, the more you prove my point that you just want to keep on mistreating the needy for your own benefit.

It's not about ME, it's about the needy and what is best for them.
Either you care about those recipients or you don't. The more you buck against this very basic information, the more you prove my point for me.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Irene P said:


> You are entitled to your opinion. I feel sorry for you. Please stop feeling angry. It's not healthy.


Again, it's not an opinion, it's a scientific fact.

Plastic yarn is for LOOKS not for warmth... and it's dangerous to those who are already vulnerable to being caught in fires.

Either you care about the recipients of that charity or you care about sniping back at me.

Clearly, you too, have chosen the latter.


----------



## misellen

Time for the sane people to head for Martgueritaville.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Barbara12 said:


> Not everyone that loves knitting can afford to pay for anything but acrylic....it really has nothing to do with their choice of yarn....I knit both acrylic & various types of wool...I will knit what I can afford.....being critical of what other people are doing for either their loved ones or donating to charity has nothing to do with anyone else.
> 
> Barbara12...female...& a senior...that has no problem divulging who, what & where I am.


You can get superwash wool/cotton for the same price as most acrylic yarn. So this argument is basically a lie.

Again, this argument is mostly BS. Many of the people here that are making this argument can be found in other threads discussing how they can't manage their yarn stash because it's gotten too big.

BluesChanteuse -- not one of those stupid naive people who puts themselves at risk to crazy strangers on the internet by divulging my identity and where I am.

(_I know someone on another knitting board (Ravelry), who had a stalker calling her boss at work and complaining about her. He found her info by merely reading her past posts. He knew where her kids went to school and was able to take the Exif data off a photo she posted that had GPS information in it. You'd be surprised how quickly someone can find out who/where you are_)

I like Canada though! Great country.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> Time for the sane people to head for Martgueritaville.


Martgueritaville? You're slurring your words!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

double post


----------



## BluesChanteuse

knittinz said:


> At the very least you could have provided data to show why acrylic is so very bad perhaps then, people would have taken you seriously.


If you were actually following the progression of this problem, (which existed before I even joined this board) you would know that when a number of people who are MUCH kinder, more polite and gentler than I, posted the data, they were attacked in the same way, which is, in fact, what prompted me to respond.

The gang bullying of a number of people who were perfectly polite and FULL of factual data did NOTHING to convince these people to behave civilly. It's a habitual problem that politeness really has not solved.

So, the time came, IMO, to push back by speaking THEIR language.

Now they may now better absorb the information, or they may continue in their spiteful ignorance, but at least they've been called out on their behavior and treated in the same manner they've been treating others all along.

*The truth is, the providing data in a kind and reasonable way did NOTHING to stop these people from going on the attack.*

I came in DEFENSE of others who were trying the method you're suggesting to no avail.



knittinz said:


> People have now lost interest in your argument, and unfortunately only see you as a source of amusement.


If they've lost interest, they can move on, if they're amused, the feeling has been mutual.

Secondly, my PM box has filled up with "attagirl" support comments. So, not everyone is as "offended" by me as you think. Mostly what I'm getting is "thank you"s for being willing to challenge the bullies who existed here LONG before I came here. So, really, it has nothing to do with me

It still remains that plastic yarn is not a thoughtful choice for people who NEED warmth and it's a dangerous choice for the very people who at higher risk for being caught in fire.

Either you/they care about managing my caustic personality, or you care about factual information and the needs of the charity recipients.

Those who choose to focus on me, are showing their true motivations.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Barbara12 said:


> Not everyone that loves knitting can afford to pay for anything but acrylic....it really has nothing to do with their choice of yarn....I knit both acrylic & various types of wool...I will knit what I can afford.....being critical of what other people are doing for either their loved ones or donating to charity has nothing to do with anyone else.
> 
> Barbara12...female...& a senior...that has no problem divulging who, what & where I am.


BTW, for those asking for data, here's something one can look up regarding acrylic amide if they wish:



> Acrylamide intake and brain cancer risk. Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2009;18:1663−1666. Hogervorst JG, Schouten LJ, Konings EJ, Goldbohm RA, van den Brandt PA
> 
> Acrylamide Hemoglobin Adduct Levels and Ovarian Cancer Risk: A Nested CaseControl Study
> 
> Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev April 2013 22:653-660; Published OnlineFirst February 15, 2013; doi:10.1158/1055-9965.EPI-12-1387
> 
> A Prospective Study on Dietary Acrylamide Intake and the Risk for Breast, Endometrial, and Ovarian Cancers
> 
> Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev October 2010 19:2503-2515; Published OnlineFirst August 6, 2010; doi:10.1158/1055-9965.EPI-10-0391


----------



## RIO

Yes, the really good yarn is EXPENSIVE, but, CRATSY does HAVE SALES quite often, and you can get some great yarn during their sales. I did, I purchased 6 skeins for $12.00.



pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


----------



## threekidsmom

Just saying this and it is my take on the whole mess...if I was hungry, I would appreciate a peanut butter sandwich, boiled egg, anything would be better than nothing! If I were homeless...and never say never...there is none so mighty they can't fall...I would adore a warm hat made out of anything! Anything would keep me warmer than nothing. Anything is better than nothing. The End.


----------



## katyboom

knittinz said:


> BluesChanteuse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.
> All I and others did was merely point out that plastic yarn is not the most thoughtful choice when it comes to gifting loved ones and especially charitable gifts.
> 
> If only that was the extent of it! If only you had 'merely' stated your opinion and moved on. Your argument was not only aggressive but you were incredibly rude to the very people you were trying to convert. There are ways and means of getting a point across and what you have done is quite the opposite. People have now lost interest in your argument, and unfortunately only see you as a source of amusement. You could have tried dealing with the issue in a positive way, i.e. recommending wool that you have seen at good prices. *At the very least you could have provided data to show why acrylic is so very bad perhaps then, people would have taken you seriously.* It's a real shame that you continue on with rudeness and personal attacks. It is time for this to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> *http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp*
> 
> Flammability of Fabrics
> 
> All fabrics will burn with some being more combustible than others. Untreated fabrics such as cotton, linen and silk burn more easily than wool, which is more difficult to ignite and burns with a low flame velocity.
> 
> The weave and weight of the material will affect how readily the fabric will ignite and burn. Recommended fabrics are materials with a tight weave. Heavy, tight weave fabrics will burn slower than loose weave, light fabrics of the same material. The texture of the fabric also affects flammability. Fabrics with loose, long, fluffy pile or a brushed nap will ignite easier than fabrics with a tight, hard surface, and in cases will result in flames flashing across the fabric surface.
> 
> Most synthetic fabric, such as nylon, acrylic or polyester resist ignition. However, once ignited, the fabrics will melt. This sticky, hot, melted substance will cause localized and very severe burns. When natural and synthetic fibers are blended, the hazard may increase due to the combination of a high rate of burning and melting usually will result in serious burns. In some cases, the hazard may be greater than that of either fabric individually.
> 
> Draperies, Curtains, and other fabrics in the home can have their burning rates reduced with flame retardants applied through chemical treatment. Such flame retardant treatment after manufacturing is not recommended for clothing.
> 
> In terms of flammability, silk may have the worst burning rate, which may be increased with dyes and other additives for colors.
> 
> Linen and Cotton also have a high burning rate which can be reduced by the application of flame retardant chemical additives.
> 
> Triacetate and Acetate are as flammable or mildly less flammable than cotton. However, they can be made flame-retardant with chemical treatment.
> 
> Polyester, Nylon and acrylic tend to be slow to ignite but once ignited, melting and dripping will occur.
> 
> Wool is comparatively flame retardant. If ignited, it usually has a low burn rate and may extinguish on its own.
> 
> Moacrylic and Glass fibers and are almost flame resistant. They are designed and manufactured to possess flame retardant characteristics.
> 
> *http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml*
> 
> Fabrics variations matter
> 
> The main thing is that fiber content vastly influences a fabric's behavior when it burns. Roughly, there are 3 categories of fibers, and which one makes a huge difference in a fire:
> 
> Plant fibers: cotton, linen, hemp etc. Also to some extent rayon types, which are derived from wood (brand names: Viscose, Tencel). These catch fire quickly and brutally, flame energetically, apread fast. On the other hand, they have an excellent quality in clothes: they tend to fall away from the body. The residue is just ashes. Rayon tends to be the most flammable.
> 
> *Animal fibers: wool, alpaca, mohair, silk etc. These have a tendency to smolder, so that a fire that one thought was out comes up again. But they don't catch fire easily, in fact wool is probably the best fire-resistant fiber ever. They don't flame much, and they also fall away when burning.*
> 
> *Synthetic fibers: nylon, polyester, etc. *These are nominally fire-resistant, which is a good thing, ie they delay the catching on fire when exposed to an open flame. But they smolder much more than animal fibers, and armchair can burst in flames after hours of nurturing a cigarette butt. *And they have a heinous problem: they melt as they burn, and they stick, particularly to skin. Another very nasty thing is that they produce thick toxic smoke which kills people from axphyxiation when present in relatively small quantity. *Polyester is a bit more fire-resistant than nylon.
> Eeck. Worse is that textiles tend to add up the properties of their components. That's why you find stuff that's made from a hodge-podge of ingredients: the hope is to find the perfect balance of softness and drape and washability and so on at an affordable price, sometimes with ridiculous extremes of 10% of everything. Unfortunately, this adding up of properties also applies to behavior while burning. So the very worst fabric to wear in a fire is the staple of our 70s youth: the polyester-cotton blend. It flames vigorously and sticks to you. Makes you wonder whethere it's not better to pick your poison and stick to one kind of fiber...
> 
> Then there's the fire-retardant controversy. Much of the flannel I buy for pyjamas is labeled "not suitable for children's sleepwear", from a law brought about in the 70s when many babies died in a carapace of melted synthetics. Alas, the fire retardants used almost exclusively are PBDEs, chemicals now implicated in massive food-chain pollution and which have long been known to mess with thyroid hormones in a big way. A more natural alternative is the one found in my mattress, a strong borax solution. Alas, this washes off quickly in clothes so works best for items like drapes and mattresses. So what's a mother to do? Personally, I'd start with a pure wool blanket.
> 
> It should also be noted that another component of textile flammability is their texture, beyond the fiber content. Between two otherwise equal textiles, the one with the fuzziest texture will catch fire more easily. Which makes sense: a dense book will resist fire better than a single sheet of paper. This why fuzzy rayon yarn catches on fire with a vengeance, worse than flat rayon fabric. And why eyelash yarn in general is more vulnerable than the plain variety.
> 
> So if you think you might be in a fire, be sure to dress like Katherine Hepburn, in wool gabardine, and in pants so you can leap easily over obstacles . Top if off in winter with a scarf made from Iceland! Seriously, places such as The Crucible which teaches many fire arts have policies telling students to wear natural fabrics (and leather shoes). This seems an excellent idea, since torches set things on fire very efficiently, overriding the slight fire-retardant advantage of synthetics. Minimizing injuries should be the emphasis for the inevitable accidents.
> 
> So I've taken to wearing wool as much as possible while working with glass. I was totally horrified when my teacher told me the story of "watching the flames spread over his whole chest" when his own sweater caught on fire once. But in retrospect he can't swear to wearing an entirely wool sweater... Yes, the fuzzies in theory could spread flames. But driven by a sick curiosity, excuse me a spirit of fearless scientific experimentation, I took my (definitely 100%) wool sweater off and passed it right through the torch flame a few times, in a way I hope never happens with my body in it! Nada. A smell that overpowered the whole block, the fuzzies got fried off a bit, but no actual burning (not a result possible with cotton). I've several times since been alerted to a stray blob of glass smoldering on my wooly lap by the smell, but nothing has ever caught on fire even when I was slow on the uptake. I'm investing in tropical wool for summer pants, and trawling the thrift shops for silk shirts...
> 
> Just my two cents......
Click to expand...


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> Martgueritaville? You're slurring your words!


I figgered that was the onee way you would unnerstand it.


----------



## Kahlua

You'd better tell me where you shop then...-)...I would love to buy wool for the same price as acrylic....yes Canada is a great country.....but then I'm abit biased about that.

Barbara 12


----------



## lorraine 55

knittinz said:


> BluesChanteuse said:
> 
> 
> 
> Again.
> All I and others did was merely point out that plastic yarn is not the most thoughtful choice when it comes to gifting loved ones and especially charitable gifts.
> 
> If only that was the extent of it! If only you had 'merely' stated your opinion and moved on. Your argument was not only aggressive but you were incredibly rude to the very people you were trying to convert. There are ways and means of getting a point across and what you have done is quite the opposite. People have now lost interest in your argument, and unfortunately only see you as a source of amusement. You could have tried dealing with the issue in a positive way, i.e. recommending wool that you have seen at good prices. At the very least you could have provided data to show why acrylic is so very bad perhaps then, people would have taken you seriously. It's a real shame that you continue on with rudeness and personal attacks. It is time for this to stop.
> 
> 
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Click to expand...


----------



## misellen

Barbara12 said:


> You'd better tell me where you shop then...-)...I would love to buy wool for the same price as acrylic....yes Canada is a great country.....but then I'm abit biased about that.
> 
> Barbara 12


I think people should be a bit biased about their countries. I know I am about USA.


----------



## painthoss

threekidsmom said:


> Just saying this and it is my take on the whole mess...if I was hungry, I would appreciate a peanut butter sandwich, boiled egg, anything would be better than nothing! If I were homeless...and never say never...there is none so mighty they can't fall...I would adore a warm hat made out of anything! Anything would keep me warmer than nothing. Anything is better than nothing. The End.


Per BC's "data", she thinks the poor and needy are eating acrylic, not sandwiches. That source that was cited is about the effects of dietary acrylic. Do you know what acrylate smells like?

Fish.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

threekidsmom said:


> Just saying this and it is my take on the whole mess...if I was hungry, I would appreciate a peanut butter sandwich, boiled egg, anything would be better than nothing! If I were homeless...and never say never...there is none so mighty they can't fall...I would adore a warm hat made out of anything! Anything would keep me warmer than nothing. Anything is better than nothing. The End.


I think the idea that they're "just poor people" who should be thankful for anything that's thrown at them, is a dehumanizing, disrespectful insulting perspective.

Just because people are desperate for anything _*doesn't mean they should be taken advantage of*_ by having crappy plastic items that don't keep them adequately warm and put them at further risk to severe burns.

We're not talking about not giving them anything. Knitting from superwash wool/cotton can be just as inexpensive as plastic yarn.

So the whole "_something is better than nothing_" is a completely disingenuous argument.

THE END.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

katyboom said:


> *http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp*
> 
> Flammability of Fabrics
> 
> All fabrics will burn with some being more combustible than others. Untreated fabrics such as cotton, linen and silk burn more easily than wool, which is more difficult to ignite and burns with a low flame velocity.
> 
> The weave and weight of the material will affect how readily the fabric will ignite and burn. Recommended fabrics are materials with a tight weave. Heavy, tight weave fabrics will burn slower than loose weave, light fabrics of the same material. The texture of the fabric also affects flammability. Fabrics with loose, long, fluffy pile or a brushed nap will ignite easier than fabrics with a tight, hard surface, and in cases will result in flames flashing across the fabric surface.
> 
> Most synthetic fabric, such as nylon, acrylic or polyester resist ignition. However, once ignited, the fabrics will melt. This sticky, hot, melted substance will cause localized and very severe burns. When natural and synthetic fibers are blended, the hazard may increase due to the combination of a high rate of burning and melting usually will result in serious burns. In some cases, the hazard may be greater than that of either fabric individually.
> 
> Draperies, Curtains, and other fabrics in the home can have their burning rates reduced with flame retardants applied through chemical treatment. Such flame retardant treatment after manufacturing is not recommended for clothing.
> 
> In terms of flammability, silk may have the worst burning rate, which may be increased with dyes and other additives for colors.
> 
> Linen and Cotton also have a high burning rate which can be reduced by the application of flame retardant chemical additives.
> 
> Triacetate and Acetate are as flammable or mildly less flammable than cotton. However, they can be made flame-retardant with chemical treatment.
> 
> Polyester, Nylon and acrylic tend to be slow to ignite but once ignited, melting and dripping will occur.
> 
> Wool is comparatively flame retardant. If ignited, it usually has a low burn rate and may extinguish on its own.
> 
> Moacrylic and Glass fibers and are almost flame resistant. They are designed and manufactured to possess flame retardant characteristics.
> 
> *http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml*
> 
> Fabrics variations matter
> 
> The main thing is that fiber content vastly influences a fabric's behavior when it burns. Roughly, there are 3 categories of fibers, and which one makes a huge difference in a fire:
> 
> Plant fibers: cotton, linen, hemp etc. Also to some extent rayon types, which are derived from wood (brand names: Viscose, Tencel). These catch fire quickly and brutally, flame energetically, apread fast. On the other hand, they have an excellent quality in clothes: they tend to fall away from the body. The residue is just ashes. Rayon tends to be the most flammable.
> 
> *Animal fibers: wool, alpaca, mohair, silk etc. These have a tendency to smolder, so that a fire that one thought was out comes up again. But they don't catch fire easily, in fact wool is probably the best fire-resistant fiber ever. They don't flame much, and they also fall away when burning.*
> 
> *Synthetic fibers: nylon, polyester, etc. *These are nominally fire-resistant, which is a good thing, ie they delay the catching on fire when exposed to an open flame. But they smolder much more than animal fibers, and armchair can burst in flames after hours of nurturing a cigarette butt. *And they have a heinous problem: they melt as they burn, and they stick, particularly to skin. Another very nasty thing is that they produce thick toxic smoke which kills people from axphyxiation when present in relatively small quantity. *Polyester is a bit more fire-resistant than nylon.
> Eeck. Worse is that textiles tend to add up the properties of their components. That's why you find stuff that's made from a hodge-podge of ingredients: the hope is to find the perfect balance of softness and drape and washability and so on at an affordable price, sometimes with ridiculous extremes of 10% of everything. Unfortunately, this adding up of properties also applies to behavior while burning. So the very worst fabric to wear in a fire is the staple of our 70s youth: the polyester-cotton blend. It flames vigorously and sticks to you. Makes you wonder whethere it's not better to pick your poison and stick to one kind of fiber...
> 
> Then there's the fire-retardant controversy. Much of the flannel I buy for pyjamas is labeled "not suitable for children's sleepwear", from a law brought about in the 70s when many babies died in a carapace of melted synthetics. Alas, the fire retardants used almost exclusively are PBDEs, chemicals now implicated in massive food-chain pollution and which have long been known to mess with thyroid hormones in a big way. A more natural alternative is the one found in my mattress, a strong borax solution. Alas, this washes off quickly in clothes so works best for items like drapes and mattresses. So what's a mother to do? Personally, I'd start with a pure wool blanket.
> 
> It should also be noted that another component of textile flammability is their texture, beyond the fiber content. Between two otherwise equal textiles, the one with the fuzziest texture will catch fire more easily. Which makes sense: a dense book will resist fire better than a single sheet of paper. This why fuzzy rayon yarn catches on fire with a vengeance, worse than flat rayon fabric. And why eyelash yarn in general is more vulnerable than the plain variety.
> 
> So if you think you might be in a fire, be sure to dress like Katherine Hepburn, in wool gabardine, and in pants so you can leap easily over obstacles . Top if off in winter with a scarf made from Iceland! Seriously, places such as The Crucible which teaches many fire arts have policies telling students to wear natural fabrics (and leather shoes). This seems an excellent idea, since torches set things on fire very efficiently, overriding the slight fire-retardant advantage of synthetics. Minimizing injuries should be the emphasis for the inevitable accidents.
> 
> So I've taken to wearing wool as much as possible while working with glass. I was totally horrified when my teacher told me the story of "watching the flames spread over his whole chest" when his own sweater caught on fire once. But in retrospect he can't swear to wearing an entirely wool sweater... Yes, the fuzzies in theory could spread flames. But driven by a sick curiosity, excuse me a spirit of fearless scientific experimentation, I took my (definitely 100%) wool sweater off and passed it right through the torch flame a few times, in a way I hope never happens with my body in it! Nada. A smell that overpowered the whole block, the fuzzies got fried off a bit, but no actual burning (not a result possible with cotton). I've several times since been alerted to a stray blob of glass smoldering on my wooly lap by the smell, but nothing has ever caught on fire even when I was slow on the uptake. I'm investing in tropical wool for summer pants, and trawling the thrift shops for silk shirts...
> 
> Just my two cents......


Yup. It's not just about the flammability, it's the fact that acrylic melts into the burns and can make a 2nd degree burn into a DEADLY burn.

It can literally mean the difference between life and death.

And the "_Oh, the poor people will/should be thankful for whatever they get_" argument, is IMO, degrading.

It's literally taking advantage of a desperate person's vulnerability so that you don't have to spend an extra 50 cents??

The yarn may be crappy, but that kind indifference towards the ACTUAL need of the disenfranchised may be just as crappy.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> I figgered that was the onee way you would unnerstand it.


Riiiiight.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Barbara12 said:


> You'd better tell me where you shop then...-)...I would love to buy wool for the same price as acrylic....yes Canada is a great country.....but then I'm abit biased about that.
> 
> Barbara 12


Maybe after you finally get rid of the 17 balls of eyelash yarn you have so much of you're "donating" (i.e practically BEGGING people here to take it from you for free):

http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4302230&t=215202

As I said, all these claims about being "too poor" to buy superwash wool/cotton is total BS 99% of the time as these same people are maintaining a yarn stash so large they can't even figure out how to organize and manage it.

It's a crappy, dishonest argument.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

painthoss said:


> Per BC's "data", she thinks the poor and needy are eating acrylic, not sandwiches. That source that was cited is about the effects of dietary acrylic. Do you know what acrylate smells like?
> 
> Fish.


"*acrylonitrile enters our bodies through skin absorption*, _as well as_ inhalation and _ingestion_"

Breast cancer and acrylic fibers



> But also lets look at the fibers themselves. The key ingredient of acrylic fiber is acrylonitrile, (also called vinyl *cyanide*). It is a carcinogen (_brain_, lung and bowel cancers) and a mutagen, targeting the central nervous system. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, acrylonitrile enters our bodies through skin absorption, as well as inhalation and ingestion. So could the acrylic fibers in our acrylic fabrics be a contributing factor to these results?


Hey, but they're just poor people.... they will be thankful to have SOMETHING (carcinogenic) than nothing.









The End.


----------



## painthoss

Does anybody else hear a droning, buzzing sound?


----------



## adili

BluesChanteuse said:


> I think the idea that they're "just poor people" who should be thankful for anything that's thrown at them, is a dehumanizing, disrespectful insulting perspective.
> 
> Just because people are desperate for anything _*doesn't mean they should be taken advantage of*_ by having crappy plastic items that don't keep them adequately warm and put them at further risk to severe burns.
> 
> We're not talking about not giving them anything. Knitting from superwash wool/cotton can be just as inexpensive as plastic yarn.
> 
> So the whole "_something is better than nothing_" is a completely disingenuous argument.
> 
> THE END.


Hi,

I'm new here so pardon me for diving in head first.

But honestly, even though I think you're rude at times, I see where you're coming from here.

As a new person coming in, it seems to me that some people took offense to being informed that acrylic yarn is not particularly helpful to charity recipients because they want to knit what they want to knit and aren't really thinking about the needs of the people they're knitting for.

And when you pointed that out to them, albeit rudely at times, they totally went on the attack.

It does come down to wondering why people, after being told of the detriments of acrylic yarn for poor people are insisting it's 'good enough" for people who have very little.

I agree that at it's core that's an awful way to think of the needy and I can see WHY your fighting FOR them.

I don't think they're gonna hear what you have to say though, because their original goals don't seem to earnestly be to HELP the needy. So whether you tell them nicely, or tell them rudely, they're going to lash back at you.

So why bother?


----------



## adili

painthoss said:


> Does anybody else hear a droning, buzzing sound?


See, even when Blueschanteuse offers flat facts, you've just proven that you're not interested in dealing with the reality of the situation.

She offers facts, you insult, she gets rude, you insult.

Bottom line is, she's made lots of valid points, IMO.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

adili said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new here so pardon me for diving in head first.
> 
> But honestly, even though I think you're rude at times, I see where you're coming from here.
> 
> As a new person coming in, it seems to me that some people took offense to being informed that acrylic yarn is not particularly helpful to charity recipients because they want to knit what they want to knit and aren't really thinking about the needs of the people they're knitting for.
> 
> And when you pointed that out to them, albeit rudely at times, they totally went on the attack.
> 
> It does come down to wondering why people, after being told of the detriments of acrylic yarn for poor people are insisting it's 'good enough" for people who have very little.
> 
> I agree that at it's core that's an awful way to think of the needy and I can see WHY your fighting FOR them.
> 
> I don't think they're gonna hear what you have to say though, because their original goals don't seem to earnestly be to HELP the needy. So whether you tell them nicely, or tell them rudely, they're going to lash back at you.
> 
> So why bother?


Thank you for your advice, and thanks for seeing through the fog. You're essentially right re: both sides.


----------



## painthoss

adili said:


> See, even when Blueschanteuse offers flat facts, you've just proven that you're not interested in dealing with the reality of the situation.
> 
> She offers facts, you insult, she gets rude, you insult.
> 
> Bottom line is, she's made lots of valid points, IMO.


But she has offered no facts. Have you read the sources she's offered after 19 or so pages ? They are not relevant or valid.


----------



## vjh1530

katyboom said:


> *http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp*
> 
> Flammability of Fabrics
> 
> All fabrics will burn with some being more combustible than others. Untreated fabrics such as cotton, linen and silk burn more easily than wool, which is more difficult to ignite and burns with a low flame velocity.
> 
> The weave and weight of the material will affect how readily the fabric will ignite and burn. Recommended fabrics are materials with a tight weave. Heavy, tight weave fabrics will burn slower than loose weave, light fabrics of the same material. The texture of the fabric also affects flammability. Fabrics with loose, long, fluffy pile or a brushed nap will ignite easier than fabrics with a tight, hard surface, and in cases will result in flames flashing across the fabric surface.
> 
> Most synthetic fabric, such as nylon, acrylic or polyester resist ignition. However, once ignited, the fabrics will melt. This sticky, hot, melted substance will cause localized and very severe burns. When natural and synthetic fibers are blended, the hazard may increase due to the combination of a high rate of burning and melting usually will result in serious burns. In some cases, the hazard may be greater than that of either fabric individually.
> 
> Draperies, Curtains, and other fabrics in the home can have their burning rates reduced with flame retardants applied through chemical treatment. Such flame retardant treatment after manufacturing is not recommended for clothing.
> 
> In terms of flammability, silk may have the worst burning rate, which may be increased with dyes and other additives for colors.
> 
> Linen and Cotton also have a high burning rate which can be reduced by the application of flame retardant chemical additives.
> 
> Triacetate and Acetate are as flammable or mildly less flammable than cotton. However, they can be made flame-retardant with chemical treatment.
> 
> Polyester, Nylon and acrylic tend to be slow to ignite but once ignited, melting and dripping will occur.
> 
> Wool is comparatively flame retardant. If ignited, it usually has a low burn rate and may extinguish on its own.
> 
> Moacrylic and Glass fibers and are almost flame resistant. They are designed and manufactured to possess flame retardant characteristics.
> 
> *http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml*
> 
> Fabrics variations matter
> 
> The main thing is that fiber content vastly influences a fabric's behavior when it burns. Roughly, there are 3 categories of fibers, and which one makes a huge difference in a fire:
> 
> Plant fibers: cotton, linen, hemp etc. Also to some extent rayon types, which are derived from wood (brand names: Viscose, Tencel). These catch fire quickly and brutally, flame energetically, apread fast. On the other hand, they have an excellent quality in clothes: they tend to fall away from the body. The residue is just ashes. Rayon tends to be the most flammable.
> 
> *Animal fibers: wool, alpaca, mohair, silk etc. These have a tendency to smolder, so that a fire that one thought was out comes up again. But they don't catch fire easily, in fact wool is probably the best fire-resistant fiber ever. They don't flame much, and they also fall away when burning.*
> 
> *Synthetic fibers: nylon, polyester, etc. *These are nominally fire-resistant, which is a good thing, ie they delay the catching on fire when exposed to an open flame. But they smolder much more than animal fibers, and armchair can burst in flames after hours of nurturing a cigarette butt. *And they have a heinous problem: they melt as they burn, and they stick, particularly to skin. Another very nasty thing is that they produce thick toxic smoke which kills people from axphyxiation when present in relatively small quantity. *Polyester is a bit more fire-resistant than nylon.
> Eeck. Worse is that textiles tend to add up the properties of their components. That's why you find stuff that's made from a hodge-podge of ingredients: the hope is to find the perfect balance of softness and drape and washability and so on at an affordable price, sometimes with ridiculous extremes of 10% of everything. Unfortunately, this adding up of properties also applies to behavior while burning. So the very worst fabric to wear in a fire is the staple of our 70s youth: the polyester-cotton blend. It flames vigorously and sticks to you. Makes you wonder whethere it's not better to pick your poison and stick to one kind of fiber...
> 
> Then there's the fire-retardant controversy. Much of the flannel I buy for pyjamas is labeled "not suitable for children's sleepwear", from a law brought about in the 70s when many babies died in a carapace of melted synthetics. Alas, the fire retardants used almost exclusively are PBDEs, chemicals now implicated in massive food-chain pollution and which have long been known to mess with thyroid hormones in a big way. A more natural alternative is the one found in my mattress, a strong borax solution. Alas, this washes off quickly in clothes so works best for items like drapes and mattresses. So what's a mother to do? Personally, I'd start with a pure wool blanket.
> 
> It should also be noted that another component of textile flammability is their texture, beyond the fiber content. Between two otherwise equal textiles, the one with the fuzziest texture will catch fire more easily. Which makes sense: a dense book will resist fire better than a single sheet of paper. This why fuzzy rayon yarn catches on fire with a vengeance, worse than flat rayon fabric. And why eyelash yarn in general is more vulnerable than the plain variety.
> 
> So if you think you might be in a fire, be sure to dress like Katherine Hepburn, in wool gabardine, and in pants so you can leap easily over obstacles . Top if off in winter with a scarf made from Iceland! Seriously, places such as The Crucible which teaches many fire arts have policies telling students to wear natural fabrics (and leather shoes). This seems an excellent idea, since torches set things on fire very efficiently, overriding the slight fire-retardant advantage of synthetics. Minimizing injuries should be the emphasis for the inevitable accidents.
> 
> So I've taken to wearing wool as much as possible while working with glass. I was totally horrified when my teacher told me the story of "watching the flames spread over his whole chest" when his own sweater caught on fire once. But in retrospect he can't swear to wearing an entirely wool sweater... Yes, the fuzzies in theory could spread flames. But driven by a sick curiosity, excuse me a spirit of fearless scientific experimentation, I took my (definitely 100%) wool sweater off and passed it right through the torch flame a few times, in a way I hope never happens with my body in it! Nada. A smell that overpowered the whole block, the fuzzies got fried off a bit, but no actual burning (not a result possible with cotton). I've several times since been alerted to a stray blob of glass smoldering on my wooly lap by the smell, but nothing has ever caught on fire even when I was slow on the uptake. I'm investing in tropical wool for summer pants, and trawling the thrift shops for silk shirts...
> 
> Just my two cents......


These are NOT scientific articles, by the way - one is a blogger with no scientific background, she is just stating her opinions, and the other is a wallpaper and fabric store. Neither place you cited is a researched scientific source. The blogger is using blowtorches - I'd wear a lot more protection that a wool sweater! That said, no one has said that there isn't a difference between acrylic and wool, only that the differences are being blown out of proportion to the risk to feed some people's desire to argue. This whole thing isn't about flammability, it is about Blue Chanteuses' rudeness and outrageous comments.


----------



## suzy-kate

vjh1530 said:


> These are NOT scientific articles, by the way - one is a blogger with no scientific background, she is just stating her opinions, and the other is a wallpaper and fabric store. Neither place you cited is a researched scientific source. The blogger is using blowtorches - I'd wear a lot more protection that a wool sweater! That said, no one has said that there isn't a difference between acrylic and wool, only that the differences are being blown out of proportion to the risk to feed some people's desire to argue. This whole thing isn't about flammability, it is about Blue Chanteuses' rudeness and outrageous comments.


I love the way Blue Canteuses disregards peoples accounts on their use of wool/acrylic by saying it's anecdotal, not based on scientific fact and therefore has no place in a discussion. I have an allergy to some wools, fact I've been tested. In 2005 the NHS reported that in England and Wales 16.4% of children between the age of 8 and 13 have ecezma of those arround 97% tested positive to skin reactions to wool, allergic reactions to wool including hives, nasal congestion, shortness of breath, watering eyes etc. is 7% of the population of which 78% are severe. These figures were based purely on patients tested in a five year period. In regards to allergies to acrylic there are no figures for clothing just for industrial use which were less than .1%


----------



## PaKnitter

Those who have less and are given vouchers or chosen to go shopping to buy winter gear are walking into Dick's, Sear's, Penny's, Wal-Mart and buying acrylics so why beat up on those who choose to give for the types of yarns they are using.

Lobby Red Heart yarns, or go to the newspaper, local tv channel to state your concerns and educate people about the dangers. But stop kicking the azzes of those who are trying to make a difference.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> Riiiiight.


Thank you for including a picture of yourself.


----------



## misellen

BluesChanteuse said:


> Hey, but they're just poor people.... they will be thankful to have SOMETHING (carcinogenic) than nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The End.


Yaawwwnnn zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz go get some rest Bluch.


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> Does anybody else hear a droning, buzzing sound?


That must be what is putting me to sleep! But then, senseless repetition does that too.


----------



## misellen

adili said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'm new here so pardon me for diving in head first.
> 
> But honestly, even though I think you're rude at times, I see where you're coming from here.
> 
> As a new person coming in, it seems to me that some people took offense to being informed that acrylic yarn is not particularly helpful to charity recipients because they want to knit what they want to knit and aren't really thinking about the needs of the people they're knitting for.
> 
> And when you pointed that out to them, albeit rudely at times, they totally went on the attack.
> 
> It does come down to wondering why people, after being told of the detriments of acrylic yarn for poor people are insisting it's 'good enough" for people who have very little.
> 
> I agree that at it's core that's an awful way to think of the needy and I can see WHY your fighting FOR them.
> 
> I don't think they're gonna hear what you have to say though, because their original goals don't seem to earnestly be to HELP the needy. So whether you tell them nicely, or tell them rudely, they're going to lash back at you.
> 
> So why bother?


As you say, you are knew here so you don't know the background. The same group of people have hijacked and destroyed countless posts on this forum. Others have simply grown tired of it and have started retaliating. Everyone should have the right to use whatever yarn they choose and ask questions or submit comments without having to be subjected to a lecture that has been overworked all ready. IE beating a dead horse.

Those of us who knit for charity use the yarn that the charity requires. We should not have to be castigated for doing so.


----------



## katyboom

http://www.cityofpasadena.net/Fire/Flammable_Fabrics/

From the Pasadena FD FACT SHEET


----------



## vjh1530

adili said:


> See, even when Blueschanteuse offers flat facts, you've just proven that you're not interested in dealing with the reality of the situation.
> 
> She offers facts, you insult, she gets rude, you insult.
> 
> Bottom line is, she's made lots of valid points, IMO.


First, let me welcome you to KP. It is always nice to meet new knitters.

Because you are new here you don't know that many of these comments also reflect the history of the posts of that person, not just what you have read in the last few pages here. I suggest you go to the User List and type her name in and read all her posts, not just the last few you have seen here. I also suggest you read here around page 56 and on to see some of her posts and if you think that telling someone you hope their son dies a horrible death from burning is acceptable rudeness, then that is sad. You will also notice that when she isn't posting everyone is getting along just fine and enjoying themselves, then when she jumps in with her vitriol things get ugly.

Just because she says something you think you might agree with doesn't make it "fact". What is written in blogs is not "fact." It is "opinion". Facts are scientifically proven statements backed up by research. She has not provided any facts that show that people, who wear hats and gloves that are not wool, in their everyday life, are being maimed and killed. It goes to follow that if were fact, we should not be wearing any item of clothing that is not wool, down to and including our underwear. If acrylic yarn is so combustible, then anything made out of acrylic will have the same response, not just hand knitted items. But we wear or use acrylic/plastic every day in our lives and we are not bursting into flames or being maimed by melted plastic. How many people do you know? Hundreds? How many of them have died from wearing hats or gloves made from acrylic yarn, or scarred from their acrylic hats melting into their heads?

And I am not sure why you think her being rude is acceptable and anyone else's is not. Because she said those not agreeing with her are bullies and attacking her? That does not make it fact. Read the entire topic before you make a decision.

No one is saying that there is not a difference between flammability of different fibers. We are objecting to being called names and taunted because we use the acrylic yarns that the charities we knit for request. If you make those charities items out of pure cashmere, or quivot, or whatever you think is the most luxurious of yarns, they will say, thanks, but then tell you they can't use them and give them back to you. So why would you waste your time knitting with yarns they aren't going to use? That helps no one.


----------



## katyboom

http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm

FACT SHEET from the University of Missouri


----------



## vjh1530

katyboom said:


> http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm
> 
> FACT SHEET from the University of Missouri


"When exposed to a flame". How many times a day are you exposed to an open flame? The clothing you wear while cooking on your gas stove is always wool? I doubt it. Read the labels in your clothing. Many have acrylic or one of it's cousins as part of the fiber. Have you caught on fire? Anyone you know been maimed or killed by their shirt bursting into flame? I doubt it.

The point that myself and others are trying to make is that 99.9% of people are never in a situation where what they are wearing is inherently dangerous. After reading your fact sheet are you going into your closets and throwing out all your clothing, bedding, shoes, that aren't 100% wool? Even most homeless are not huddling around open fires - have you seen or read about any open fires that authorities are having to put out on a regular basis? I've lived in big cities - they huddle on the steam grates or in corners of buildings. And those fact sheets are about what happens when the flame STAYS in contact with the fiber, not makes contact and then pulls away.

Again, no one is arguing that different fibers react to fire differently. We are saying that in everyday life of the people who receive donated items (and they are not all homeless by any means) acrylic can be a safe, acceptable fiber. Do YOU knit only with 100% wool for everyone you knit for? Why should they be less safe? Have you ever knitted or bought your kids or grandkids an article of clothing that was acrylic? If yes, than in BC's way of thinking that makes you a child abuser. Have you donated clothing to places like GoodWill? Have any of those clothing items been made of acrylic or polyester? It isn't only knitted things that burn. So then you don't care about the safety of the people who would wear what you donated?

And again, if the charities will only take acrylics, then what is the point of making them items of anything else? How does that help anyone? I thought helping others was the whole point of knitting for the less fortunate.

BC is not posting in an effort to help others, she is posting to create discord. Do you think you would see Donnie K, or Dreamweaver, for example, telling anyone they hoped their child's hat burned and melted into the child's face, and while the doctors were pulling out the melted fabric you could be shoving pie into the child's mouth? The only point statements like that make are about the poster's sick mind, not about knitting for babies.


----------



## suzy-kate

No one is saying that acrylic's don't melt and can cause worse injuries when in contact with skin than say burns from cotton. There are dangers in smoking, drinking, eating too much fat, driving etc. etc. and in some cases wearing wool. Instead of saying that charities are ill informed when they accept acrylic garments, find out why first.


----------



## suzy-kate

vjh1530 said:


> "When exposed to a flame". How many times a day are you exposed to an open flame? The clothing you wear while cooking on your gas stove is always wool? I doubt it. Read the labels in your clothing. Many have acrylic or one of it's cousins as part of the fiber. Have you caught on fire? Anyone you know been maimed or killed by their shirt bursting into flame? I doubt it.
> 
> The point that myself and others are trying to make is that 99.9% of people are never in a situation where what they are wearing is inherently dangerous. After reading your fact sheet are you going into your closets and throwing out all your clothing, bedding, shoes, that aren't 100% wool? Even most homeless are not huddling around open fires - have you seen or read about any open fires that authorities are having to put out on a regular basis? I've lived in big cities - they huddle on the steam grates or in corners of buildings. And those fact sheets are about what happens when the flame STAYS in contact with the fiber, not makes contact and then pulls away.
> 
> Again, no one is arguing that different fibers react to fire differently. We are saying that in everyday life of the people who receive donated items (and they are not all homeless by any means) acrylic can be a safe, acceptable fiber. Do YOU knit only with 100% wool for everyone you knit for? Why should they be less safe? Have you ever knitted or bought your kids or grandkids an article of clothing that was acrylic? If yes, than in BC's way of thinking that makes you a child abuser. Have you donated clothing to places like GoodWill? Have any of those clothing items been made of acrylic or polyester? It isn't only knitted things that burn. So then you don't care about the safety of the people who would wear what you donated?
> 
> And again, if the charities will only take acrylics, then what is the point of making them items of anything else? How does that help anyone? I thought helping others was the whole point of knitting for the less fortunate.
> 
> BC is not posting in an effort to help others, she is posting to create discord. Do you think you would see Donnie K, or Dreamweaver, for example, telling anyone they hoped their child's hat burned and melted into the child's face, and while the doctors were pulling out the melted fabric you could be shoving pie into the child's mouth? The only point statements like that make are about the poster's sick mind, not about knitting for babies.


 You said it better than I did.


----------



## vjh1530

suzy-kate said:


> No one is saying that acrylic's don't melt and can cause worse injuries when in contact with skin than say burns from cotton. There are dangers in smoking, drinking, eating too much fat, driving etc. etc. and in some cases wearing wool. Instead of saying that charities are ill informed when they accept acrylic garments, find out why first.


Well said.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Can someone post the scientific studies that show wool to be warmer than acrylic? I've heard this before but nevers actually seen the studies. I've only seen people writing blogs and suchs saying, "scientific studies show...." but not foot noting the article. I'm interesting in reading the actual studies, not just opinion pieces or people eluding to studies that can't be verified (yes I have read this post waiting for actual studies but haven't actually seen them posted, but if they have been can you please point them out?)


----------



## suzy-kate

Lkholcomb said:


> Can someone post the scientific studies that show wool to be warmer than acrylic? I've heard this before but nevers actually seen the studies. I've only seen people writing blogs and suchs saying, "scientific studies show...." but not foot noting the article. I'm interesting in reading the actual studies, not just opinion pieces or people eluding to studies that can't be verified (yes I have read this post waiting for actual studies but haven't actually seen them posted, but if they have been can you please point them out?)


You'll love this, I've been looking for weeks and all studies are slanted towards whoever requested/paid for the study examples

http://www.peta.org/living/fashion/cruelty-free-clothing-guide/cruelty-free-clothing-guide-introduction/

http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc

From everything I've read acrylic keeps you as warm as wool, but it does make you sweat, wool keeps you warm even when wet, wicks away any sweat (only a few acrylics do this) but takes a long time to dry.

I've read a lot of scientific papers, but these either aren't available on line, or I haven't found them, had to read them at my old uni.


----------



## painthoss

Result of a search of PubMed using search terms "Wool acrylic fabric" I loves me some PubMed.

Int J Occup Med Environ Health. 2009;22(3):215-26. doi: 10.2478/v10001-009-0021-8.
Influence of different kind of clothing material on selected cardiovascular, respiratory and psychomotor parameters during moderate physical exercise.
Ciesielska I, Mokwiński M, Orłowska-Majdak M.
Source
Institute of Architecture of Textiles, Technical University of Łódź
Abstract
OBJECTIVES:
The aim of the experiment was to analyze the influence that the clothing material may have on human physiology and thermal comfort both at rest and physical effort to answer the question which fabric is better, a natural or a synthetic one.
MATERIALS AND METHODS:
We measured some psychomotor parameters: critical flicker frequency (CFF), reaction time to auditory/visual stimuli (RT), concentration of attention (CA); cardiovascular parameters: blood pressure (BP), heart rate (HR) and respiratory parameters: tidal volume (VT), minute ventilation (VE), oxygen consumption (VO2), carbon dioxide output (VCO2), respiratory exchange ratio (RER) in human volunteers before, during and after physical effort. The subjects performed a 15-min treadmill test on treadmill wearing clothes made of two different materials: 100% coarse wool and 100% acrylic. An interview was conducted directly before the exercise test to assess the subjects' general mood and wellbeing on that day. Besides, before and after the test, the subjects in their own words described the sensation they felt with respect to the physiological comfort of particular clothing.
RESULTS:
The results showed that wearing clothes made of different fabrics had some influence on the cardiovascular and respiratory parameters during physical effort but it did not have any effect on the psychomotor skills. The perception of physiological comfort by the subjects wearing coarse wool or acrylic depended on their physiological state and differed at rest and after the physical effort.
CONCLUSIONS:
The course of physiological processes depends on the kind of clothing a given person is wearing. It is not possible to clearly define which of the two clothing materials: natural - wool, or synthetic - acrylic is better. Each of them exerts a different effect on the human organism. The usefulness of a given type of clothing material seems to depend on the human physiological state and the related thermoregulatory processes.
PMID: 19887365 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text


----------



## painthoss

Another one, not exactly on topic but related. Do not want anybody to accuse us of wanting those less fortunate than us to get sunburned.

Also from PubMed. 

Photodermatol Photoimmunol Photomed. 1990 Feb;7(1):32-4.
Textiles and sun protection.
Robson J, Diffey BL.
Source
Regional Medical Physics Department, Drybum Hospital, Durham, United Kingdom.
Abstract
The spectral transmission of ultraviolet radiation was measured through natural textiles (cotton, wool, silk) and human-made textiles (acrylic, viscose, polyester). Each textile exhibited a characteristic spectral transmission curve, but the protection afforded by a given fabric depended more on the nature of the weave than on the particular type of textile.


----------



## Kahlua

Firstly I didn't beg anyone to take the eyelash wool...I donated because I personally don't like knitting with it...I know there are other people who do....it was all said with tongue in cheek, something that you don't seem to understand...you have turned just about everything that someone has posted on this topic into a critical account of how wrong they are & how right you are....give me a break...you need to talk to Dr. Phil to see why you have such an anger problem.

Barbara


----------



## painthoss

Here's another one. I am not selecting only certain results, I am selecting all articles that compare natural fibers to synthetic, by the way. So far, no difference.

Work. 2013 Oct 14. [Epub ahead of print]
Comfort and performance of power line maintainers' gloves during electrical utility work in the cold.
Hunt S, Boyle C, Wells R.
Source
Electrical and Utilities Safety Association, Mississauga, Canada.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Electrical utility workers wear thick rubber gloves and often work in the cold.
OBJECTIVE:
To document the challenge of working in the cold and the effectiveness of different glove/liner combinations in keeping workers' hands warm.
METHODS:
Ten experienced male electrical utility employees worked in a controlled temperature walk-in chamber at -20°C for 45 minutes for each of five glove conditions: standard five-finger rubber gloves with cotton liners and gauntlets, mitten style gloves, a prototype wool liner, and two heating options; glove or torso. Dependent measures were maximum grip force, skin temperatures, finger dexterity and sensitivity to touch, ratings of perceived effort and a rating of thermal sensation.
RESULTS:
Participants' hand skin temperatures decreased, they perceived their hands to be much colder, their finger sensitivity decreased and their ratings of perceived exertion increased, however their performance did not degrade over the 45 minute trials. The mitten-style gloves showed a smaller drop in skin temperature for the 3rd and 5th digits (p< 0.05) than the other glove conditions.
CONCLUSIONS:
Mitten style gloves kept workers' hands warmer than the standard five finger glove.


----------



## painthoss

Whoa, who'd have thunk it. Acrylic beats wool in evaporative cooling, which is to say, it does indeed breathe. Or should I say, it DOES breathe. :wink: Let me know when you get tired of this, researching scientific literature is actually part of my job and I love it.

Scand J Med Sci Sports. 2013 Aug 27. doi: 10.1111/sms.12117. [Epub ahead of print]
Real evaporative cooling efficiency of one-layer tight-fitting sportswear in a hot environment.
Wang F, Annaheim S, Morrissey M, Rossi RM.
Source
Laboratory for Protection and Physiology, EMPA-Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Science and Technology, St. Gallen, Switzerland.
Abstract
Real evaporative cooling efficiency, the ratio of real evaporative heat loss to evaporative cooling potential, is an important parameter to characterize the real cooling benefit for the human body. Previous studies on protective clothing showed that the cooling efficiency decreases with increasing distance between the evaporation locations and the human skin. However, it is still unclear how evaporative cooling efficiency decreases as the moisture is transported from the skin to the clothing layer. In this study, we performed experiments with a sweating torso manikin to mimic three different phases of moisture absorption in one-layer tight-fitting sportswear. Clothing materials Coolmax® (CM; INVISTA, Wichita, Kansas, USA; 100%, profiled cross-section polyester fiber), merino wool (MW; 100%), sports wool (SW; 50% wool, 50% polyester), and cotton (CO; 100%) were selected for the study. The results demonstrated that, for the sportswear materials tested, the real evaporative cooling efficiency linearly decreases with the increasing ratio of moisture being transported away from skin surface to clothing layer (adjusted R2 >0.97). In addition, clothing fabric thickness has a negative effect on the real evaporative cooling efficiency. Clothing CM and SW showed a good ability in maintaining evaporative cooling efficiency. In contrast, clothing MW made from thicker fabric had the worst performance in maintaining evaporative cooling efficiency. It is thus suggested that thin fabric materials such as CM and SW should be used to manufacture one-layer tight-fitting sportswear.
© 2013 John Wiley & Sons A/S. Published by John Wiley & Sons Ltd.


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> Can someone post the scientific studies that show wool to be warmer than acrylic? I've heard this before but nevers actually seen the studies. I've only seen people writing blogs and suchs saying, "scientific studies show...." but not foot noting the article. I'm interesting in reading the actual studies, not just opinion pieces or people eluding to studies that can't be verified (yes I have read this post waiting for actual studies but haven't actually seen them posted, but if they have been can you please point them out?)


I ran across an article comparing glove liners for telephone linemen to wear under their mandatory rubber gloves. They compared cotton, a synthetic, wool, and mittens.

Mittens won. As in other studies, and our shared experience, structure of the garment is at least as important as the fiber choice. Words to live by.


----------



## painthoss

painthoss said:


> I ran across an article comparing glove liners for telephone linemen to wear under their mandatory rubber gloves. They compared cotton, a synthetic, wool, and mittens.
> 
> Mittens won. As in other studies, and our shared experience, structure of the garment is at least as important as the fiber choice. Words to live by.


Never mind, I did cite it above. Sorry for the double post.


----------



## PaKnitter

painthoss said:


> Never mind, I did cite it above. Sorry for the double post.


I know my mittens keep my hands and fingers warmer than any glove.


----------



## suzy-kate

PaKnitter said:


> I know my mittens keep my hands and fingers warmer than any glove.


And they're easier to put on children.


----------



## painthoss

suzy-kate said:


> And they're easier to put on children.


Bless the little children all the world over. May they always be warm, may their little tummies be full, and may they be nurtured and brought up to be thinking, feeling men and women.


----------



## adili

painthoss said:


> Whoa, who'd have thunk it. Acrylic beats wool in evaporative cooling, which is to say, it does indeed breathe. Or should I say, it DOES breathe. :wink: Let me know when you get tired of this, researching scientific literature is actually part of my job and I love it.


Yeah, too bad there's no acrylic in that study:



> Coolmax® (CM; INVISTA, Wichita, Kansas, USA; 100%, profiled cross-section polyester fiber), merino wool (MW; 100%), sports wool (SW; 50% wool, 50% polyester), and cotton (CO; 100%) were selected for the study.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

> Yeah, too bad there's no acrylic in that study:


Oooopsie!









So, now there's apparently no difference between polyester and acrylic.

And in order to make the polyester efficient, it either has to be SPECIALLY designed and produced (Coolmax) or has to be blended with wool.

And I'm SURE all those plastic knitters have been knitting with "Coolmax" yarn all this time ... because ya know... it's just as cheap as the plastic acrylic yarn and comes in dk and worsted weight.... right?


----------



## adili

painthoss said:


> Here's another one. I am not selecting only certain results, I am selecting all articles that compare natural fibers to synthetic, by the way. So far, no difference.


Yeah, except that study DOESN'T compare natural to synthetic fibers.

It comapres mittens vs gloves, in which BOTH have natural fiber linings (cotton and wool)

Seriously girl, if reading scientific literature is your day job, I think it's time to quit and find something you're better qualified for.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

adili said:


> Yeah, except that study DOESN'T compare natural to synthetic fibers.
> 
> It compares mittens vs gloves, in which BOTH have natural fiber linings (cotton and wool).
> 
> Seriously girl, if reading scientific literature is your day job, I think it's time to quit and find something you're better qualified for.


Holy moly.

So basically, the study proved that mittens were warmer than gloves when worn under rubber.

Ewwkay.

So now we know... if you're gonna throw plastic yarn at people make sure they have rubber mittens to match on the outside.

Well, I gotta give 'em some credit now though. After 20 something pages in this thread and years of other's telling them about the benefits of natural fibers --- at least they're TRYING to deal with facts instead of whining and going on the attack.

Maybe they're posting studies that aren't in the least bit applicable... but hey... it's an effort, right?

I say Kudos!!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Now .... WHY go through all that, just to justify using plastic yarn, which at the VERY least has questionable warmth, melts into burn wounds and may be carcinogenic ...

instead of putting in the effort to search for some sale prices and/or spend 50cents more on a skein of natural fibers ... I don't understand the rationale for that.

But I do applaud the effort to look into it at least.


----------



## Lkholcomb

suzy-kate said:


> You'll love this, I've been looking for weeks and all studies are slanted towards whoever requested/paid for the study examples
> 
> http://www.peta.org/living/fashion/cruelty-free-clothing-guide/cruelty-free-clothing-guide-introduction/
> 
> http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc
> 
> From everything I've read acrylic keeps you as warm as wool, but it does make you sweat, wool keeps you warm even when wet, wicks away any sweat (only a few acrylics do this) but takes a long time to dry.
> 
> I've read a lot of scientific papers, but these either aren't available on line, or I haven't found them, had to read them at my old uni.


Thank you!


----------



## Lkholcomb

painthoss said:


> Result of a search of PubMed using search terms "Wool acrylic fabric" I loves me some PubMed.
> 
> Int J Occup Med Environ Health. 2009;22(3):215-26. doi: 10.2478/v10001-009-0021-8.
> Influence of different kind of clothing material on selected cardiovascular, respiratory and psychomotor parameters during moderate physical exercise.
> Ciesielska I, Mokwiński M, Orłowska-Majdak M.
> Source
> Institute of Architecture of Textiles, Technical University of Łódź
> Abstract
> OBJECTIVES:
> The aim of the experiment was to analyze the influence that the clothing material may have on human physiology and thermal comfort both at rest and physical effort to answer the question which fabric is better, a natural or a synthetic one.
> MATERIALS AND METHODS:
> We measured some psychomotor parameters: critical flicker frequency (CFF), reaction time to auditory/visual stimuli (RT), concentration of attention (CA); cardiovascular parameters: blood pressure (BP), heart rate (HR) and respiratory parameters: tidal volume (VT), minute ventilation (VE), oxygen consumption (VO2), carbon dioxide output (VCO2), respiratory exchange ratio (RER) in human volunteers before, during and after physical effort. The subjects performed a 15-min treadmill test on treadmill wearing clothes made of two different materials: 100% coarse wool and 100% acrylic. An interview was conducted directly before the exercise test to assess the subjects' general mood and wellbeing on that day. Besides, before and after the test, the subjects in their own words described the sensation they felt with respect to the physiological comfort of particular clothing.
> RESULTS:
> The results showed that wearing clothes made of different fabrics had some influence on the cardiovascular and respiratory parameters during physical effort but it did not have any effect on the psychomotor skills. The perception of physiological comfort by the subjects wearing coarse wool or acrylic depended on their physiological state and differed at rest and after the physical effort.
> CONCLUSIONS:
> The course of physiological processes depends on the kind of clothing a given person is wearing. It is not possible to clearly define which of the two clothing materials: natural - wool, or synthetic - acrylic is better. Each of them exerts a different effect on the human organism. The usefulness of a given type of clothing material seems to depend on the human physiological state and the related thermoregulatory processes.
> PMID: 19887365 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE] Free full text


Thank you! I thought about looking on pubmed, but then thought, "nah they wouldn't have anything about how warm the different things are". Lol. Just goes to show how awesome pubmed is!


----------



## ladysjk

adili, honey you are new here,and I welcome you...and hope you enjoy KP...but I must ask, why oh why is this the only topic you have chosen to comment on?? I am not trying to be rude, and certainly hope I don't come across that way, but I just can not imagine why in the world this is the topic you chose to speak on? Please go to more enjoyable topics, there are so many truly gifted,talented people on Kp, don't get caught up in the sad posts, or quarrelsome topics. I made that mistake, and was deeply hurt by it, now, I just do not want to hurt, negate or injure others..look for the nice topics...and as you said, and I agree....why bother..blessed be


----------



## Lkholcomb

painthoss said:


> Whoa, who'd have thunk it. Acrylic beats wool in evaporative cooling, which is to say, it does indeed breathe. Or should I say, it DOES breathe. :wink: Let me know when you get tired of this, researching scientific literature is actually part of my job and I love it.


Not likely to get tired of it, lol. When I was researching in college I actually broke my parents printer because I had it printing so much, lol.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Cool max is made from 97% recycled plastic bottles, per their website. Can you explain to me why this would make it no longer acrylic. Is their something in the recycling process that transforms it from acrylic? That would be so cool! I would love to read more about it! Can you post for me your sources it is not acrylic so I can read that fascinating process??

http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Oooopsie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, now there's apparently no difference between polyester and acrylic.
> 
> And in order to make the polyester efficient, it either has to be SPECIALLY designed and produced (Coolmax) or has to be blended with wool.
> 
> And I'm SURE all those plastic knitters have been knitting with "Coolmax" yarn all this time ... because ya know... it's just as cheap as the plastic acrylic yarn and comes in dk and worsted weight.... right?


I'll ask you the same question I asked the previous poster:

Cool max is made from 97% recycled plastic bottles, per their website. Can you explain to me why this would make it no longer acrylic. Is their something in the recycling process that transforms it from acrylic? That would be so cool! I would love to read more about it! Can you post for me your sources it is not acrylic so I can read that fascinating process??

http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Now .... WHY go through all that, just to justify using plastic yarn, which at the VERY least has questionable warmth, melts into burn wounds and may be carcinogenic ...
> 
> instead of putting in the effort to search for some sale prices and/or spend 50cents more on a skein of natural fibers ... I don't understand the rationale for that.
> 
> But I do applaud the effort to look into it at least.


I've noticed that you seem to be one of those who has read the scientific studies that show wool to be warmer than acrylic, as you have referenced them numerous times. Can you share those scientific studies with me by posting them? I have seen blogs and opinion pieces that reference them, but with no footnoting so I can't read the actual study. I'm interested to learn.


----------



## adili

ladysjk said:


> adili, honey you are new here,and I welcome you...and hope you enjoy KP...but I must ask, why oh why is this the only topic you have chosen to comment on?? I am not trying to be rude, and certainly hope I don't come across that way, but I just can not imagine why in the world this is the topic you chose to speak on? Please go to more enjoyable topics, there are so many truly gifted,talented people on Kp, don't get caught up in the sad posts, or quarrelsome topics. I made that mistake, and was deeply hurt by it, now, I just do not want to hurt, negate or injure others..look for the nice topics...and as you said, and I agree....why bother..blessed be


1) It's not the first or only topic I've posted in.

2) It was towards the top of the list each time I visited.

3) If you're so bothered by this topic, why are you in here?

I understand that some people are too "timid" to participate in contentious discussions but trying to manage other people's personalities seems like a futile endeavor. Bottom line is I look at the information contained within posts, don't take things personally and don't believe it's my or anyone's business for that matter, to be the "polite police". As long as someone isn't being cruel, I think it's ridiculous to try and police strangers behaviors on forums such as this.

Either respond to the points being posited, or ignore or avoid the topic altogether.

It's no one's business to tell people how they should act and speak. Your meeker style is no more valid than someone's irascible style.


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> Cool max is made from 97% recycled plastic bottles, per their website. Can you explain to me why this would make it no longer acrylic. Is their something in the recycling process that transforms it from acrylic? That would be so cool! I would love to read more about it! Can you post for me your sources it is not acrylic so I can read that fascinating process??
> 
> http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html


Well now, look at that: a person who can think. And connect more than two thoughts in a row. Thanks.

I honestly didn't think facts would go for much with some people here but I owed it to those of you who grew a brain along with your typing fingers to post them.


----------



## lorraine 55

adili said:


> See, even when Blueschanteuse offers flat facts, you've just proven that you're not interested in dealing with the reality of the situation.
> 
> She offers facts, you insult, she gets rude, you insult.
> 
> Bottom line is, she's made lots of valid points, IMO.


BC was nasty to people who said nothing wrong !!!


----------



## painthoss

BluesChanteuse said:


> Oooopsie!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, now there's apparently no difference between polyester and acrylic.
> 
> And in order to make the polyester efficient, it either has to be SPECIALLY designed and produced (Coolmax) or has to be blended with wool.
> 
> And I'm SURE all those plastic knitters have been knitting with "Coolmax" yarn all this time ... because ya know... it's just as cheap as the plastic acrylic yarn and comes in dk and worsted weight.... right?


You poor thing.


----------



## lorraine 55

katyboom said:


> http://www.cityofpasadena.net/Fire/Flammable_Fabrics/
> 
> From the Pasadena FD FACT SHEET


This is interesting because I'm sure I read on here that acrylic ignites faster and is safer when blended with natural fibers .


----------



## lorraine 55

vjh1530 said:


> First, let me welcome you to KP. It is always nice to meet new knitters.
> 
> Because you are new here you don't know that many of these comments also reflect the history of the posts of that person, not just what you have read in the last few pages here. I suggest you go to the User List and type her name in and read all her posts, not just the last few you have seen here. I also suggest you read here around page 56 and on to see some of her posts and if you think that telling someone you hope their son dies a horrible death from burning is acceptable rudeness, then that is sad. You will also notice that when she isn't posting everyone is getting along just fine and enjoying themselves, then when she jumps in with her vitriol things get ugly.
> 
> Just because she says something you think you might agree with doesn't make it "fact". What is written in blogs is not "fact." It is "opinion". Facts are scientifically proven statements backed up by research. She has not provided any facts that show that people, who wear hats and gloves that are not wool, in their everyday life, are being maimed and killed. It goes to follow that if were fact, we should not be wearing any item of clothing that is not wool, down to and including our underwear. If acrylic yarn is so combustible, then anything made out of acrylic will have the same response, not just hand knitted items. But we wear or use acrylic/plastic every day in our lives and we are not bursting into flames or being maimed by melted plastic. How many people do you know? Hundreds? How many of them have died from wearing hats or gloves made from acrylic yarn, or scarred from their acrylic hats melting into their heads?
> 
> And I am not sure why you think her being rude is acceptable and anyone else's is not. Because she said those not agreeing with her are bullies and attacking her? That does not make it fact. Read the entire topic before you make a decision.
> 
> No one is saying that there is not a difference between flammability of different fibers. We are objecting to being called names and taunted because we use the acrylic yarns that the charities we knit for request. If you make those charities items out of pure cashmere, or quivot, or whatever you think is the most luxurious of yarns, they will say, thanks, but then tell you they can't use them and give them back to you. So why would you waste your time knitting with yarns they aren't going to use? That helps no one.


I was also wondering whether she had read the very disturbing posts that were made earlier .


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> I've noticed that you seem to be one of those who has read the scientific studies that show wool to be warmer than acrylic, as you have referenced them numerous times. Can you share those scientific studies with me by posting them? I have seen blogs and opinion pieces that reference them, but with no footnoting so I can't read the actual study. I'm interested to learn.


I just got through posting a couple of studies related to acrylic as a carcinogen, and that too has been responded to with an attack.

I've also already pointed out that others have posted those studies in other areas of the forum only for them to be ignored and attacked anyway, often by the same group of detractors.

_The bottom line for me is, I don't believe even ONE "pro-plastic" person here ever did "research" to make sure the plastic was warm and safe for it's recipients._ It was bought because it was relatively cheap and sometimes pretty

NOW what is happening is certain people are randomly searching articles for the words wool and synthetic and posting them even if they dont apply to the situation whatsoever.

I'm not continuing down that BS lane. You all know that wool is warmer than synthetics and that plastic melts. Cherry picking and distorting information from studies that don't even apply is just more willful dishonesty and game playing.

People have posted MUCH information about acrylic melting into people wounds etc... which shouldn't even take a study for someone to understand is real. Plastic melts, and if you don't have the common sense to understand that, then you may not have the intellectual capacity to earnestly participate in this discussion.

Even if acrylic WERE warm enough, I still don't understand why people would knit items for people who are at higher risk for being around open fires and shoddy dangerous space heater (to keep warm) ... that would melt into their wounds if they're caught in a fire.

People can blah blah blah about the odds and risks about certain groups ever being caught in a fire, but ...

... *I don't think it's appropriate to be playing that sort of numbers game with other people's (especially poor children's) safety* when the very simple and relatively inexpensive solution is to just knit with natural superwashed fibers and you don't have to worry about plastic melting into wounds.


----------



## lorraine 55

painthoss said:


> Bless the little children all the world over. May they always be warm, may their little tummies be full, and may they be nurtured and brought up to be thinking, feeling men and women.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lorraine 55

adili said:


> 1) It's not the first or only topic I've posted in.
> 
> 2) It was towards the top of the list each time I visited.
> 
> 3) If you're so bothered by this topic, why are you in here?
> 
> I understand that some people are too "timid" to participate in contentious discussions but trying to manage other people's personalities seems like a futile endeavor. Bottom line is I look at the information contained within posts, don't take things personally and don't believe it's my or anyone's business for that matter, to be the "polite police". As long as someone isn't being cruel, I think it's ridiculous to try and police strangers behaviors on forums such as this.
> 
> Either respond to the points being posited, or ignore or avoid the topic altogether.
> 
> It's no one's business to tell people how they should act and speak. Your meeker style is no more valid than someone's irascible style.


There have been many cruel remarks made and the first post was about the price of yarn so how is that responding to the points being posted .


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> I'll ask you the same question I asked the previous poster:
> 
> Cool max is made from 97% recycled plastic bottles, per their website. Can you explain to me why this would make it no longer acrylic. Is their something in the recycling process that transforms it from acrylic? That would be so cool! I would love to read more about it! Can you post for me your sources it is not acrylic so I can read that fascinating process??
> 
> http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html


Not all plastic is the same.

Coolmax is specially engineered polyester.

Even if it WERE Acrylic, it has to be SPECIALLY ENGINEERED to make it ACT like natural fibers.

So, why are we talking about a yarn no one here has ever used to knit for charity and has NOTHING to do with the actual discussion about the CHEAP acrylic yarn that's being used?

If you knit from Coolmax and have discovered it won't melt into wounds, I say GOOD FOR YOU for bothering to think about your charity recipients.

That's all I've ever suggested be done!


----------



## adili

lorraine 55 said:


> There have been many cruel remarks made and the first post was about the price of yarn so how is that responding to the points being posted


I've perused the thread and I see no cruel remarks.

I see rude, impolite and some insulting remarks coming from ALL sides, but nothing cruel.

I think some may be a bit hypersensitive and take things too personally, but that is their issue. It's unreasonable to expect the world to bend to your personality preferences.

Edit:

*I also want to note that I've received some backstabbing remarks via PM which I believe to be quite petty. Much of what was said about BC were outright lies after I researched the thread.

But thanks for the PM(s) as it gives me a good idea now of what BC was dealing with.


----------



## misellen

Is anyone else noticing how very similar the rants of two certain people (not worth naming) sound. It sort of sounds like two parts of the same whole.


----------



## misellen

adili said:


> I've perused the thread and I see no cruel remarks.
> 
> I see rude, impolite and some insulting remarks coming from ALL sides, but nothing cruel.
> 
> I think some may be a bit hypersensitive and take things too personally, but that is their issue. It's unreasonable to expect the world to bend to your personality preferences.
> 
> Edit:
> 
> *I also want to note that I've received some backstabbing remarks via PM which I believe to be quite petty. Much of what was said about BC were outright lies after I researched the thread.
> 
> But thanks for the PM(s) as it gives me a good idea now of what BC was dealing with.


Adi, if you have perused this thread without seeing cruel remarks, then you need to take a course in reading comprehension.

I find it odd that a person would join a knitting forum but never get involved in any of the discussions about --knitting. Strange, Join, Introduce Self, Leap straight into hostility. Something wrong with this plan. Oh! I get it, collusion ha ha ha
How pathetic.


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Not all plastic is the same.
> 
> Coolmax is specially engineered polyester.
> 
> Even if it WERE Acrylic, it has to be SPECIALLY ENGINEERED to make it ACT like natural fibers.
> 
> So, why are we talking about a yarn no one here has ever used to knit for charity and has NOTHING to do with the actual discussion about the CHEAP acrylic yarn that's being used?
> 
> If you knit from Coolmax and have discovered it won't melt into wounds, I say GOOD FOR YOU for bothering to think about your charity recipients.
> 
> That's all I've ever suggested be done!


I never said anything about knitting for charity or about it melting. I was only asking about the warmth of acrylic vs knitting since that has been mentioned many times.


----------



## ladysjk

adili said:


> 1) It's not the first or only topic I've posted in.
> 
> 2) It was towards the top of the list each time I visited.
> 
> 3) If you're so bothered by this topic, why are you in here?
> 
> I understand that some people are too "timid" to participate in contentious discussions but trying to manage other people's personalities seems like a futile endeavor. Bottom line is I look at the information contained within posts, don't take things personally and don't believe it's my or anyone's business for that matter, to be the "polite police". As long as someone isn't being cruel, I think it's ridiculous to try and police strangers behaviors on forums such as this.
> 
> Either respond to the points being posited, or ignore or avoid the topic altogether.
> 
> It's no one's business to tell people how they should act and speak. Your meeker style is no more valid than someone's irascible style.


I am by no means timid, trust me...I just try, and I say try because I can be as bad as, or worse than some...to be kind, that is how I choose to live. I was not trying to be "the polite police", I just knew you were new here and wanted to invite you to nicer posts...I am sorry if that in any way insulted you.

I clicked on your user name right after I read your posts here. Actually, other than your introduction, you have on posted on this topic , and paid a compliment to another KPer about her afghan...

I am not going to respond on the points being, or attempted to being posted here..because it is futile.

People are who they are, and no one is going to change that, no matter how some try.

I am not meek....honey, I have a rattlesnake tongue, and an alligator ass...so never afraid of anyone, the only thing that scares me.....IS ME!!!

Hope you enjoy this forum, and good luck in your relationship to BC...never confuse silence for ignorance....


----------



## misellen

A trolling we will go. Hi Ho the Merryo, A trolling we will go.


----------



## threekidsmom

BluesChanteuse said:


> I think the idea that they're "just poor people" who should be thankful for anything that's thrown at them, is a dehumanizing, disrespectful insulting perspective.
> 
> Just because people are desperate for anything _*doesn't mean they should be taken advantage of*_ by having crappy plastic items that don't keep them adequately warm and put them at further risk to severe burns.
> 
> We're not talking about not giving them anything. Knitting from superwash wool/cotton can be just as inexpensive as plastic yarn.
> 
> So the whole "_something is better than nothing_" is a completely disingenuous argument.
> 
> THE END.


I NEVER said they were "just poor people". Where did you come up with that??? I personally don't have time to knit for charities, because I work and my time is very limited. I do, however, give money to the needy. Money! I guess you'll find fault with that, too. Anyone that would care to knit for me....I love hand knitted stuff....not picky about what the fiber content is, either!


----------



## blessedinMO

misellen said:


> Is anyone else noticing how very similar the rants of two certain people (not worth naming) sound. It sort of sounds like two parts of the same whole.


or an echo? Oh boy, the price of yarn!


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> I just got through posting a couple of studies related to acrylic as a carcinogen, and that too has been responded to with an attack.
> 
> I've also already pointed out that others have posted those studies in other areas of the forum only for them to be ignored and attacked anyway, often by the same group of detractors.
> 
> _The bottom line for me is, I don't believe even ONE "pro-plastic" person here ever did "research" to make sure the plastic was warm and safe for it's recipients._ It was bought because it was relatively cheap and sometimes pretty
> 
> NOW what is happening is certain people are randomly searching articles for the words wool and synthetic and posting them even if they dont apply to the situation whatsoever.
> 
> I'm not continuing down that BS lane. You all know that wool is warmer than synthetics and that plastic melts. Cherry picking and distorting information from studies that don't even apply is just more willful dishonesty and game playing.
> 
> People have posted MUCH information about acrylic melting into people wounds etc... which shouldn't even take a study for someone to understand is real. Plastic melts, and if you don't have the common sense to understand that, then you may not have the intellectual capacity to earnestly participate in this discussion.
> 
> Even if acrylic WERE warm enough, I still don't understand why people would knit items for people who are at higher risk for being around open fires and shoddy dangerous space heater (to keep warm) ... that would melt into their wounds if they're caught in a fire.
> 
> People can blah blah blah about the odds and risks about certain groups ever being caught in a fire, but ...
> 
> ... *I don't think it's appropriate to be playing that sort of numbers game with other people's (especially poor children's) safety* when the very simple and relatively inexpensive solution is to just knit with natural superwashed fibers and you don't have to worry about plastic melting into wounds.


I was and am not asking about the cancer risk or melting of acrylic. I was specifically asking about your statements that wool was warmer than acrylic or that acrylic isn't warm. I would like to read those studies and since you have spoken of then several times I had thought you may have actually read the study and could provide them to me.

I wanted to be sure that I had remembered correctly that you had said these things so I re-read the thread. I copied your posts here so in case you didn't remember they could refresh your memory. I included the page numbers so it could also be verified in context in case anybody wants to check.

Comments about science studies or facts regarding wool being warmer than acrylic or acrylic not being warm:

"No ma'am, those are * scientific facts. * You are entitled to your own opinions by you're not entitled to your own "facts".

It's is * simply factual that acrylic is more dangerous and not particularly warm * for the very people who need warmth the most."
~page 18

"Again, the viewing the world from relatively affluent bubble is myopic. And yes, I would agree that you turn a "deaf ear" because your "selective hearing" is clearly contributing to your ignorance.

* It's simply a scientific fact that wool is much warmer than acrylic * to the point where it can make the difference between loosing one's fingers to frostbite or not.

And that YOU haven't caught on fire has nothing to do with the people who may have to sleep by an open fire or have rickety space heaters in their home in a desperate attempt to stay warm that catch on fire.

THESE are the circumstances that someone as relatively affluent as you don't have to worry about.

And applying YOUR circumstances to the disenfranchised is simply ... well ... stupid."
~page52

"It's not about "disagreement", * there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things. *

Secondly, anecdotal stories (i.e. personal experience) that are not honestly reflective of how many in the disenfranchised community live (as your's and your husband's was not), really does not add any useful information to the debate.

I'm happy that acrylic is warm enough for you and your husband even in a relatively cold climate, but it really has little to nothing to do with what it's like to be a disenfranchised person in a cold climate. People really need to learn to think outside their own life experiences and put themselves in other people's shoes -- if true compassion is a goal."
~ page 77

"Because you know darn well, when he's cold enough, there's a place for him to go be it a running car/truck or trailer nearby --- (and if he doesn't you should speak to a lawyer and sue for illegal workplace conditions) and therefore he'd never have to subject himself to the point of frostbite. Not to mention he can probably afford to layer and he can change items when they get too wet.

Secondly, you can tell your BS "acrylic keeps my snowman of a husband warm enough" story all you want, but science is science, not anecdotal stories invented and/or tweaked to win an argument on a discussion board.

* It's simply a scientific fact that wool is MUCH warmer than acrylic. *

If your husband working in those conditions never needed to change outerwear or go into a heated area to warm up while wearing one layer of acrylics either he's got "superman's" regulatory system, or the "story" that's being told isn't the full story."
~page 78

*"Again, it's not an opinion, it's a scientific fact.

Plastic yarn is for LOOKS not for warmth * ... and it's dangerous to those who are already vulnerable to being caught in fires.

Either you care about the recipients of that charity or you care about sniping back at me.

Clearly, you too, have chosen the latter. "
~ page 80

Here are a few where, while not mentioning science, you do state that acrylic is not warm:

* "The bottom line is that acrylic items don't keep the people who NEED the warmth the most warm * and they're dangerous to boot.

Caring about that, instead of whining about being insulted is what demonstrates to people what one's true motivations are.

People can whine about "rudeness" all they want, but it still remains that acrylic doesn't adequately keep people (who need it the most) warm and it is dangerous to a group of people who's at higher risk of being caught in a fire, especially children.

Pissing and moaning about how I or anyone else didn't say it politely enough, doesn't change that basic reality.

Other than it only further evinces someone's tendency for self-interest over the legitimate needs of the needy."
~page 15

"Insulting rohohappy doesn't changes the facts.

It's still true that * Acrylic is plastic that doesn't keep anyone warm * and is relatively dangerous.

If you're using it for charity, you're not really helping them. Period.

That remains true whether you personally attack people on disability or not."
~page 16

"You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.

It's not about what someone personally chooses.

The argument is about charity knitting and that * acrylic yarn

1) isn't warm *
2) is dangerous.

Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.

But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.

If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.
~page 17

It's not "picky" to point out that people are genuinely put at risk when someone uses plastic yarn for charity knitting.

* This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT." *
~page 26

"OH THE HORROR!

You people have been stalking and attacking AmyKnits for how long... and as soon as someone gives you a taste of your own medicine you go running home to tell mommy someone isn't being nice to you?

Boo hoo.

It still won't change the * facts that Acrylic yarn is not warm * and endangers the needy and if that's what you're knitting for them, you're either thoughtless and selfish, or a simpleton.

But, all YOU care about is if someone was rude to you on a knitting board?

Keep showing your true colors."
~page 27

"Yes, why WOULD you ignore the * FACT that plastic yarn doesn't keep poor people warm * and endangers them.

Why obsess over a (w)itch on a knitting forum instead of doing the RIGHT thing?"
~page 59

So again, I am respectfully requesting the studies you reference. I find scientific studies enlightening and would love to add these to my knowledge base.


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Not all plastic is the same.
> 
> Coolmax is specially engineered polyester.
> 
> Even if it WERE Acrylic, it has to be SPECIALLY ENGINEERED to make it ACT like natural fibers.
> 
> So, why are we talking about a yarn no one here has ever used to knit for charity and has NOTHING to do with the actual discussion about the CHEAP acrylic yarn that's being used?
> 
> If you knit from Coolmax and have discovered it won't melt into wounds, I say GOOD FOR YOU for bothering to think about your charity recipients.
> 
> That's all I've ever suggested be done!


This is so interesting! So they can specially engineer the plastic recycled bottle to make it act like natural fibers, even though it is still acrylic? This makes me wonder why they can't do that with acrylic yarn. I wonder if there is some acrylic yarn like this out there.

And again, I'm not discussing the whole melting thing. I'm only curious about the warmth factor at the moment. I'm quite familiar with the flammable process, my husband having been a volunteer firefight for about 10 years and myself being a nurse. I think that is why I am interested in the scientific studies supporting the claim that wool is warmer than acrylic.

I look forward to reading those studies!


----------



## peachy51

misellen said:


> Is anyone else noticing how very similar the rants of two certain people (not worth naming) sound. It sort of sounds like two parts of the same whole.


You know, I was just sitting here thinking similar thoughts. And of course, she can't read the really offensive posts that BC made because Admin cleaned them up before she joined.

As for BC, have you all not noticed that she is going to continue her rant over and over and over like a broken record? You won't be able to fix that broken record, no matter how hard you try. It's too broken.


----------



## blessedinMO

peachy51 said:


> You know, I was just sitting here thinking similar thoughts. And of course, she can't read the really offensive posts that BC made because Admin cleaned them up before she joined.
> 
> As for BC, have you all not noticed that she is going to continue her rant over and over and over like a broken record? You won't be able to fix that broken record, no matter how hard you try. It's too broken.


It's been broken a long time....sad to say.


----------



## ladysjk

I agree, I believe there is some relationship to these two posters..never confuse silence for ignorance...also notice the times they are on, and the time between posts made by them...and the times they are off line...this is not paranoia as I am predicting this will be the next defense they use....it is what it is...don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out...I have been watching for this, I figured this was going to occur...my sister and I are now laughing hysterically as I even told her,"Just watch, she will have a 2nd identity soon, that will plead her case and take up arms"...I don't care what anyone says on this topic, I just had to watch for this to happen..ha ha ha ....leaving this topic now, and unwatching...had to see if I was right.


----------



## blessedinMO

ladysjk said:


> I agree, I believe there is some relationship to these two posters..never confuse silence for ignorance...also notice the times they are on, and the time between posts made by them...and the times they are off line...this is not paranoia as I am predicting this will be the next defense they use....it is what it is...don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out...I have been watching for this, I figured this was going to occur...my sister and I are now laughing hysterically as I even told her,"Just watch, she will have a 2nd identity soon, that will plead her case and take up arms"...I don't care what anyone says on this topic, I just had to watch for this to happen..ha ha ha ....leaving this topic now, and unwatching...had to see if I was right.


This has been a topic of conversation on PM's all evening :!:


----------



## adili

misellen said:


> Is anyone else noticing how very similar the rants of two certain people (not worth naming) sound. It sort of sounds like two parts of the same whole.


Wow So now merely defending BC makes me worthy of suspicions and my posts are called "rants"?

I've been perfectly polite yet now the guns will apparently be turned on me. Which is of course, how it started with BC as she dared to defend someone else that many of you were attacking at the time.

Which, of course, pretty much confirms BC's version of things.


----------



## adili

misellen said:


> Adi, if you have perused this thread without seeing cruel remarks, then you need to take a course in reading comprehension.
> 
> I find it odd that a person would join a knitting forum but never get involved in any of the discussions about --knitting. Strange, Join, Introduce Self, Leap straight into hostility. Something wrong with this plan. Oh! I get it, collusion ha ha ha How pathetic.


I'm well educated and my reading comprehension is fine. Just able to distinguish between rudeness and cruelty.

Paranoia and taking things much too personally are not healthy states of mind.

I truly hope you find peace. But if you're gonna get all upset over someone being rude on a knitting board, I would advise you take a mental health break. The world is filled with all kinds of people, and if you get so distressed because people don't act like you think they should, you're probably going to be in a constant state of tizzy.

It's not worth it. If you don't like what she says or how she says it, ignore her. It's that simple.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

threekidsmom said:


> I NEVER said they were "just poor people". Where did you come up with that??? I personally don't have time to knit for charities, because I work and my time is very limited. I do, however, give money to the needy. Money! I guess you'll find fault with that, too. Anyone that would care to knit for me....I love hand knitted stuff....not picky about what the fiber content is, either!


If you posit the idea that because people are desperate they'll be thankful for anything, that IS a way of saying, they're "just poor people".

And for the record, choosing yarn that will do a better job at keeping poor people warm and won't put the vulnerable at even MORE risk of harm during a fire, is not "being picky" ... it's the LEAST one can do, it's just being moderately THOUGHTFUL about those one is knitting for.

And no, I don't find fault with you giving money as long as you don't do something like infuse it with small pox and then go hand it to them personally arguing you're just trying to put them out of their own misery.

Or is that just being "picky"?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

ladysjk said:


> I agree, I believe there is some relationship to these two posters..never confuse silence for ignorance...also notice the times they are on, and the time between posts made by them...and the times they are off line...this is not paranoia as I am predicting this will be the next defense they use....it is what it is...don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out...I have been watching for this, I figured this was going to occur...my sister and I are now laughing hysterically as I even told her,"Just watch, she will have a 2nd identity soon, that will plead her case and take up arms"...I don't care what anyone says on this topic, I just had to watch for this to happen..ha ha ha ....leaving this topic now, and unwatching...had to see if I was right.


LOL.

Yup, Adilli is over there by the grassy knoll, and I think she was responsible for starting HAARP to help the government send mind controlling radio waves.... oh, and she's really Elvis!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

peachy51 said:


> As for BC, have you all not noticed that she is going to continue her rant over and over and over like a broken record?


Only in response to your broken record.

Which is of course AGAIN, to focus on ME rather than facts.


----------



## blessedinMO

Smoke and mirrors work on some people.


----------



## Lostie

blessedinMO said:


> Smoke and mirrors work on some people.


 and two persona writing in the exact same style and use of vocabulary don't.


----------



## blessedinMO

Lostie said:


> and two persona writing in the exact same style and use of vocabulary don't.


Maybe the evil twin :?:


----------



## mwatpon

Ladies ladies ladies,

It is quite obvious that BlueChanteuse and Adili are made up names. Maybe AmyKnits and Sockit2me are using those aliases. Or AmyKnits is the one using both. This is not a fact. It is only my opinion. If you evaluate the style of writing and the opinions, it matches both of them.

BlueChanteuse joined on 10/14/13 and Adili joined on 11/20/13 both within one of the many times that both AmyKnits and Sockit2me caused a lot of bad feelings about acrylic yarn.

So if you respond to them, you are just arguing with people who use these pretend names to cause problems and to be mean. That way they can vent without getting reported and without seeming to be mean.

What they don't realize is that they are both ill to resort to an alias as a way of being nasty.

I suggest everyone stop giving them attention by responding to them at all. 

All yarns are wonderful to knit with. People should make their own choices without having to deal with deranged individuals.

Shame on both of them whomever they are. They should be utterly ashamed to be so mean to a nice group of people and they should be ashamed to even use their real names after what they've done.

Mary


----------



## Glenlady

lorraine 55 said:


> BC was nasty to people who said nothing wrong !!!


Pity trolls can't be banished, we don't like them :roll:


----------



## carrottop71

Glenlady said:


> Pity trolls can't be banished, we don't like them :roll:


I wasn't going to post to this mess, but have been reading the crazy stuff. At one point when it was mentioned about knowing where everyone lives and how easy it was to get info from our accounts, I found that scary. But I also remember someone wondering what would happen if this went over 100 pages, and if it would branch off. I think that is what everyone is trying to do at this point and I'm not glad that I will be adding to this, but if you don't want it to go further, quit now. No one is paying attention to the original post anyway so that post is lost.


----------



## Glenlady

carrottop71 said:


> I wasn't going to post to this mess, but have been reading the crazy stuff. At one point when it was mentioned about knowing where everyone lives and how easy it was to get info from our accounts, I found that scary. But I also remember someone wondering what would happen if this went over 100 pages, and if it would branch off. I think that is what everyone is trying to do at this point and I'm not glad that I will be adding to this, but if you don't want it to go further, quit now. No one is paying attention to the original post anyway so that post is lost.


Absolutely, lets just ignore them and hope they go away :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

At 100 pages I think the sky falls.


----------



## katyboom

I honestly cannot believe that this thread has been going on for over 2 weeks.

It started quite innocently with a comment re: the cost of yarns. 
After a comment re: the content of yarn used for charity knitting the rudeness and sarcasm started along with the stories re: personal situations accompanied with vivid details. No doubt being burned and surviving, going thru the healing process was/is a horrendous ordeal.

HOWEVER.....
Having a different point of view does not give ANY person the right to gang up on another in real life, on a message board or anywhere else. I believe there is something called "*freedom of speech*". One way that one learns is to be tolerant and do one's own investigation to confirm or deny the statements made.

Paranoia and a bullying mentality is what made this thread go on and on. Some of you just commented so you can join in the *entertainment* because "nothing was on TV".

Did any of you *think* of *what* was being said rather than how it was said or who was saying it...
Or was the *important thing* to get back at BC and later adili because they differed in opinion and were not afraid to speak out??? And then accuse them of being one and the same person??? Really?

If you had really wanted to stop this thread then do not answer back. 
*Where there is no fuel the fire goes out.*

I for one have done *my* research and based on my findings will endeavour to use wool or wool blends rather than 100% acrylic yarn. Not because of BC or anyone else's comments alone but because I have looked and made my mind up on the results.

I expected more from grown men and women..


----------



## Glenlady

ladysjk said:


> I agree, I believe there is some relationship to these two posters..never confuse silence for ignorance...also notice the times they are on, and the time between posts made by them...and the times they are off line...this is not paranoia as I am predicting this will be the next defense they use....it is what it is...don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out...I have been watching for this, I figured this was going to occur...my sister and I are now laughing hysterically as I even told her,"Just watch, she will have a 2nd identity soon, that will plead her case and take up arms"...I don't care what anyone says on this topic, I just had to watch for this to happen..ha ha ha ....leaving this topic now, and unwatching...had to see if I was right.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## blessedinMO

Yes, Katyboom, I was there. Can you believe what you have learned here from all these very smart "political Neurologists" You can lecture us and we will obey, But it is the social activists who sweep through and disrupt good forums. And you know who they are.


----------



## katyboom

mwatpon said:


> Ladies ladies ladies,
> 
> It is quite obvious that BlueChanteuse and Adili are made up names. Maybe AmyKnits and Sockit2me are using those aliases. Or AmyKnits is the one using both. This is not a fact. It is only my opinion. If you evaluate the style of writing and the opinions, it matches both of them.
> 
> BlueChanteuse joined on 10/14/13 and Adili joined on 11/20/13 both within one of the many times that both AmyKnits and Sockit2me caused a lot of bad feelings about acrylic yarn.
> 
> So if you respond to them, you are just arguing with people who use these pretend names to cause problems and to be mean. That way they can vent without getting reported and without seeming to be mean.
> 
> What they don't realize is that they are both ill to resort to an alias as a way of being nasty.
> 
> I suggest everyone stop giving them attention by responding to them at all.
> 
> All yarns are wonderful to knit with. People should make their own choices without having to deal with deranged individuals.
> 
> Shame on both of them whomever they are. They should be utterly ashamed to be so mean to a nice group of people and they should be ashamed to even use their real names after what they've done.
> 
> Mary


My case in point. Attack. Accuse. All because one thinks it is so... And offer an opinion.... Sad really.


----------



## PaKnitter

blessedinMO said:


> At 100 pages I think the sky falls.


More like the sky will crash and hit all of us on the heads!

You know...I was just waiting for someone to blame the President for all of this crap.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

The conspiracy theory paranoia is _hilarious_ to watch.

Then again, whether it's conspiracy theories or the willful denials of the inadequacies and dangers of plastic yarn, it takes some really small minds to "think" in that manner, so it's not surprising.

OK, people if you want to believe that I, AmyKnits, Adilli and Sockit2me are all the same people, it's certainly no skin of my back.

Unless of course I was wearing one of your knitted plastic yarn garments and caught in a fire... then it quite literally would be skin off my back ...

but I digress.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

katyboom said:


> I honestly cannot believe that this thread has been going on for over 2 weeks.
> 
> It started quite innocently with a comment re: the cost of yarns.
> After a comment re: the content of yarn used for charity knitting the rudeness and sarcasm started along with the stories re: personal situations accompanied with vivid details. No doubt being burned and surviving, going thru the healing process was/is a horrendous ordeal.
> 
> HOWEVER.....
> Having a different point of view does not give ANY person the right to gang up on another in real life, on a message board or anywhere else. I believe there is something called "*freedom of speech*". One way that one learns is to be tolerant and do one's own investigation to confirm or deny the statements made.
> 
> Paranoia and a bullying mentality is what made this thread go on and on. Some of you just commented so you can join in the *entertainment* because "nothing was on TV".
> 
> Did any of you *think* of *what* was being said rather than how it was said or who was saying it...
> Or was the *important thing* to get back at BC and later adili because they differed in opinion and were not afraid to speak out??? And then accuse them of being one and the same person??? Really?
> 
> If you had really wanted to stop this thread then do not answer back.
> *Where there is no fuel the fire goes out.*
> 
> I for one have done *my* research and based on my findings will endeavour to use wool or wool blends rather than 100% acrylic yarn. Not because of BC or anyone else's comments alone but because I have looked and made my mind up on the results.
> 
> I expected more from grown men and women..


Well said!


----------



## BluesChanteuse

blessedinMO said:


> Yes, Katyboom, I was there. Can you believe what you have learned here from all these very smart "political Neurologists" You can lecture us and we will obey, But it is the social activists who sweep through and disrupt good forums. And you know who they are.


OK, you got me!

I will be honest enough to admit that I and the other so called "political Neurologists" are working undercover for the NSA as additional information about a second shooter in the Kennedy assassination revealed he or she WAS A KNITTER OF PLASTIC YARN!

Evidently there was this conspiracy to kill Kennedy by knitting him Aran sweaters of plastic yarn, and then taking a Cuban cigar while he slept and setting him on fire, knowing that the plastic melting into his skin would likely make it impossible for him to survive.

It didn't work however, because Kennedy, a proud Irishman never would wear anything but Irish wool .. so it never came to fruition.

But we're... _errr ahh_, they're (the NSA, CIA, MI6 etc) still after the culprit and are busy trolling knitting boards trying to identify the plastic cheapskate doltish knitters in hopes of one day FINALLY finding the second gunman on the grassy knoll.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Glenlady said:


> Absolutely, lets just ignore them and hope they go away :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Promise this time? Cuz, that's what y'all said 50 pages or so ago.


----------



## Lkholcomb

katyboom said:


> I honestly cannot believe that this thread has been going on for over 2 weeks.
> 
> It started quite innocently with a comment re: the cost of yarns.
> After a comment re: the content of yarn used for charity knitting the rudeness and sarcasm started along with the stories re: personal situations accompanied with vivid details. No doubt being burned and surviving, going thru the healing process was/is a horrendous ordeal.
> 
> HOWEVER.....
> Having a different point of view does not give ANY person the right to gang up on another in real life, on a message board or anywhere else. I believe there is something called "*freedom of speech*". One way that one learns is to be tolerant and do one's own investigation to confirm or deny the statements made.
> 
> Paranoia and a bullying mentality is what made this thread go on and on. Some of you just commented so you can join in the *entertainment* because "nothing was on TV".
> 
> Did any of you *think* of *what* was being said rather than how it was said or who was saying it...
> Or was the *important thing* to get back at BC and later adili because they differed in opinion and were not afraid to speak out??? And then accuse them of being one and the same person??? Really?
> 
> If you had really wanted to stop this thread then do not answer back.
> *Where there is no fuel the fire goes out.*
> 
> I for one have done *my* research and based on my findings will endeavour to use wool or wool blends rather than 100% acrylic yarn. Not because of BC or anyone else's comments alone but because I have looked and made my mind up on the results.
> 
> I expected more from grown men and women..


I joined the conversation for information. I have done some research on acrylic yarn. However I could not find information regarding acrylic being warmer than wool. Since BC (sorry I can't remember how to spell the name, and I don't want to insult by misspelling) had mentioned many, many times about the "scientific fact" of wool being warmer than acrylic, I asked. Respectfully and politely. However I have not yet been provided with any scientific studies showing that "fact", studies, not blogs or opinion pieces.

Since I have gotten no response and no scientific studies have turned up in my research I must conclude that there are indeed no scientific studies that prove wool warmer than acrylic. Of course this could lead one to question much of what a person says who claims knowledge of studies that do not, indeed, exist.

I shall now retire from this post, with the assurity that there is no study proving wool warmer than acrylic. Thank you for that knowledge. I shall remember it for future questions people have regarding the warmth of wool vs. acrylic.

Have a pleasant night.


----------



## Hilary4

Lkholcomb said:


> I joined the conversation for information. I have done some research on acrylic yarn. However I could not find information regarding acrylic being warmer than wool. Since BC (sorry I can't remember how to spell the name, and I don't want to insult by misspelling) had mentioned many, many times about the "scientific fact" of wool being warmer than acrylic, I asked. Respectfully and politely. However I have not yet been provided with any scientific studies showing that "fact", studies, not blogs or opinion pieces.
> 
> Since I have gotten no response and no scientific studies have turned up in my research I must conclude that there are indeed no scientific studies that prove wool warmer than acrylic. Of course this could lead one to question much of what a person says who claims knowledge of studies that do not, indeed, exist.
> 
> I shall now retire from this post, with the assurity that there is no study proving wool warmer than acrylic. Thank you for that knowledge. I shall remember it for future questions people have regarding the warmth of wool vs. acrylic.
> 
> Have a pleasant night.


You might find this an interesting read then - that wool is both warmer and cooler than acrylic - although the article is about bedding rather than yarn, but it does cite its information sources.
http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc


----------



## suzy-kate

Lkholcomb said:


> I joined the conversation for information. I have done some research on acrylic yarn. However I could not find information regarding acrylic being warmer than wool. Since BC (sorry I can't remember how to spell the name, and I don't want to insult by misspelling) had mentioned many, many times about the "scientific fact" of wool being warmer than acrylic, I asked. Respectfully and politely. However I have not yet been provided with any scientific studies showing that "fact", studies, not blogs or opinion pieces.
> 
> Since I have gotten no response and no scientific studies have turned up in my research I must conclude that there are indeed no scientific studies that prove wool warmer than acrylic. Of course this could lead one to question much of what a person says who claims knowledge of studies that do not, indeed, exist.
> 
> I shall now retire from this post, with the assurity that there is no study proving wool warmer than acrylic. Thank you for that knowledge. I shall remember it for future questions people have regarding the warmth of wool vs. acrylic.
> 
> Have a pleasant night.


Hope you do check back, text book in uni by Mary Humpheries full of great information, and being a text book refs all data. Info below.

Anyway just like some wools are warmer than others the same is true for acrylic it's all down to the loft, and just as the tests in the wool v acrylic blankets (posted earlier) showed, acrylic can be warmer or as warm as wool. The thin hard original type is the least warm, though it's still warmer than cotton.

http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Reference-Edition-Mary-Humphries/dp/0131588222


----------



## suzy-kate

Hilary4 said:


> You might find this an interesting read then - that wool is both warmer and cooler than acrylic - although the article is about bedding rather than yarn, but it does cite its information sources.
> http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc


I've read the full study, what it found was that at lower temperatures both groups were comfortable under both acrylic and wool, however under warmer temperatures those under wool were still comfortable but those under acrylic were less so, breathing/heart rate increased and subjects clothing had a higher humidity, they sweated more. The only temperatures monitored were of the room environment itself not the subjects. The conclusion was that it was more comfortable to sleep on and under wool rather than acrylic, there's a similar study for wool v down, which concludes that down is better than wool. I found a lot of studies very interesting, more so when I looked and found the same data being used to support opposing ends of the same argument in articles that are really only advertisments, and yes I bought the down/feather duvet and pad to sleep on/under.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Hilary4 said:


> You might find this an interesting read then - that wool is both warmer and cooler than acrylic - although the article is about bedding rather than yarn, but it does cite its information sources.
> http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc


But in the article, sixth paragraph down it states:

"The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort."

I am familiar with the attributes of consisten humidity under wool. But I have had several people in my life, who wear both acrylic and wool, tell me the acrylic was hotter.

Thank you for showing me an article with footnotes 

Now I know that acrylic really is warmer, from scientific studies, that wool.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> I shall now retire from this post, with the assurity that there is no study proving wool warmer than acrylic. Thank you for that knowledge. I shall remember it for future questions people have regarding the warmth of wool vs. acrylic.
> 
> Have a pleasant night.


You're not being truthful.

Scientific studies were provided. And it's been pointed out that they were provided in other threads on this topic as well. INCLUDING the person who _THOUGHT_ they were providing studies that said the opposite, but indeed showed that wool/cotton had to be used under rubber gloves to provide the kind of wicking and warmth needed for electrical workers working in the cold.

It's a well established fact that wool is warmer than acrylic, and after you're "retired" from this topic, I'm sure you'll go on to another thread asking people to provide studies that prove water is wet, the world is round and that gravity exists, and then irrationally conclude the opposite because people don't get involved in spoonfeeding the obvious to the obtuse.

BTW, it's interesting how you ignore the PLASTIC MELTS into wounds and acrylic is potentially carcinogenic parts of this discussion.

Even if one were to pretend that the warmth of acrylic was sufficient ...

Do you give a damn about the other risks, or is it "OK" to play numbers games with poor people's lives?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> Now I know that acrylic really is warmer, from scientific studies, that wool.


You need to re-read the study as your assessment is incorrect.

It's difficult to have a thorough discussion with people who don't have the capacity to understand the information provided, or willfully ignore what they don't WANT to be true.



Lkholcomb said:


> But I have had several people in my life, who wear both acrylic and wool, tell me the acrylic was hotter.


Did you really just get through complaining about not having studies to provide you with the information you wanted and then reply anecdotally by saying you know a couple of people who wear acrylic and think it's hotter?










For the record, if you'd actually read through the thread you would understand that yes, acrylic can FEEL warmer to people at a certain point because it's making them sweat because their skin can't breath. That's not the same thing as actually providing the kind of warmth that will keep people from getting frostbite in extended freezing temperatures.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

suzy-kate said:


> I've read the full study, what it found was that at lower temperatures both groups were comfortable under both acrylic and wool, however under warmer temperatures those under wool were still comfortable but those under acrylic were less so, breathing/heart rate increased and subjects clothing had a higher humidity, they sweated more. The only temperatures monitored were of the room environment itself not the subjects. The conclusion was that it was more comfortable to sleep on and under wool rather than acrylic, there's a similar study for wool v down, which concludes that down is better than wool. I found a lot of studies very interesting, more so when I looked and found the same data being used to support opposing ends of the same argument in articles that are really only advertisments, and yes I bought the down/feather duvet and pad to sleep on/under.


My understanding of the study is similar to yours.

Basically in confirms the WELL KNOWN fact that wool is a natural fiber that is warmer than acrylics. Acrylic yarn is made from plastics. It traps the heat of your body and makes you sweat a lot while *not really keeping you warm from winter winds*. But it gives you the FALSE sense of warmth for a short period of time which becomes uncomfortable pretty quickly and miserably. Wool is a natural insulator. It keeps you warm while allowing the skin to breathe. It wicks moisture away from your body. Wool keeps your skin warm even when wet. Acrylic makes you wet from sweat and then doesn't keep one sufficiently warm and can even CONTRIBUTE to causing frostbite under extended cold temperatures with wind.

But Lkholcomb says she's got a couple pals who told her otherwise... so that is that!









And then of course, there's the ignoring of the fact that the disenfranchised that charity knitting is typically for, are more at risk for being caught in fires and the acrylic is bound to cause more serious injury if not death.

Or babies, who's body temperature regulation is not as adept to adjustments and the acrylic can make them quite miserable, if not put them in danger if sick.


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> You're not being truthful.
> 
> Scientific studies were provided. And it's been pointed out that they were provided in other threads on this topic as well. INCLUDING the person who _THOUGHT_ they were providing studies that said the opposite, but indeed showed that wool/cotton had to be used under rubber gloves to provide the kind of wicking and warmth needed for electrical workers working in the cold.
> 
> It's a well established fact that wool is warmer than acrylic, and after you're "retired" from this topic, I'm sure you'll go on to another thread asking people to provide studies that prove water is wet, the world is round and that gravity exists, and then irrationally conclude the opposite because people don't get involved in spoonfeeding the obvious to the obtuse.
> 
> BTW, it's interesting how you ignore the PLASTIC MELTS into wounds and acrylic is potentially carcinogenic parts of this discussion.
> 
> Even if one were to pretend that the warmth of acrylic was sufficient ...
> 
> Do you give a damn about the other risks, or is it "OK" to play numbers games with poor people's lives?


I have actually read the studies provided on this thread. I am, actually, a nurse who reads scientific studies rather regularly, if only to satisfy my own thirst for knowledge. I have been doing this since I was a teenager.

I was not and am not looking for proof that wool is warm, but would like to verify that is is WARMER than acrylic. Quite a simple concept really. It is like someone saying that tap water is cold, but another saying that ice water is COLDER. No verification needs to be made of if they feel cold to the individuals, that is a subjective view. However the claim that one is colder SCIENTIFICALLY is not subjective, is objective. It can then be measured, recorded, and compared.

I do not regularly go around asking for people to provide me with studies for fact checking. If I doubt the veracity of a statement, I then research myself first (one can always be wrong and I choose to correct any incorrect objective data I have stored in my knowledge base). However if a research has then turned up no change in my thoughts I will ask for studies from the one who made the statement. Not in a way to embarrass another, but in a polite request, as my request was. I do this to glean new knowledge from the one who holds it. I would guess that you would also choose this course. I am sure at one point someone pointed out the "fact" that wool was warmer than acrylic. I am sure that, as most rational people would, you checked up on those studies yourself not believing only another person's stated belief. I was and simply am asking for those same studies that you have read. I would like to correct any incorrect knowledge I may have, but I have only been given studies that state the opposite, I even went to the degree of quoting the particular paragraph (six) that contained the opposite statement.

It was only through those people, such as I, who because of our love of knowledge, QUESTIONED the statement of "the earth is flat", that we discovered opposite. Many people ridiculed those who questioned this and asked for proof it was flat. In turn those who were ridiculed, since no science had been provided only word of mouth, decided to try to find it out themselves by "touch and feel", if you will. Quite courageous people really, to not let those who ridiculed them and persecuted them stop them from their undying love of the truth.

Why, I can almost hear it now, those flat earthers who felt it beneath them to share their "true knowledge" in place of ridicule and harassment, "Next thing you know they'll be asking us to prove that water is wet!"

I cannot speak to what was contained in previous threads, as I am involved in this thread. However, I am not asking for more opinions, I am asking for the studies. I would think that someone so fluent in the science would be able to bring some up (after all for it to be science it must be repeatable as well so there must be more than one). Apparently I need to correct my incorrect knowledge that you have read the studies yourself. However I would be more than happy to change that conclusion and admit I held a wrong opinion if you could provide me with some studies (not opinion pieces or blogs, or works without proper footnotes).

I do not "ignore" the other issues related to the use of acrylic material. However this statement, of wool being warmer than acrylic, I have been unable to verify with research. That is why I am discussing only that issue at this time.


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Did you really just get through complaining about not having studies to provide you with the information you wanted and then reply anecdotally by saying you know a couple of people who wear acrylic and think it's hotter?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For the record, if you'd actually read through the thread you would understand that yes, acrylic can FEEL warmer to people at a certain point because it's making them sweat because their skin can't breath. That's not the same thing as actually providing the kind of warmth that will keep people from getting frostbite in extended freezing temperatures.


Oh my dear! I do think you do not understand my purpose in stating the subjective comment. I was looking for scientific verification of a subjective claim. Not once did I attempt to put forth that subjective claim as an objective scientific fact. I do apologize for this misunderstanding. This was the reason I was looking for scientific studies, so that such misunderstanding does not occur.

As is common with scientific research, one starts with a subjective claim. The one finds research written or does research themselves (that is repeatable) to show objectively the fact.

And for those curious as to the context, here is my full post regarding this:



Lkholcomb said:


> But in the article, sixth paragraph down it states:
> 
> "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort."
> 
> I am familiar with the attributes of consisten humidity under wool. But I have had several people in my life, who wear both acrylic and wool, tell me the acrylic was hotter.
> 
> Thank you for showing me an article with footnotes
> 
> Now I know that acrylic really is warmer, from scientific studies, that wool.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Lkholcomb said:


> I was and am not asking about the cancer risk or melting of acrylic. I was specifically asking about your statements that wool was warmer than acrylic or that acrylic isn't warm. I would like to read those studies and since you have spoken of then several times I had thought you may have actually read the study and could provide them to me.
> 
> I wanted to be sure that I had remembered correctly that you had said these things so I re-read the thread. I copied your posts here so in case you didn't remember they could refresh your memory. I included the page numbers so it could also be verified in context in case anybody wants to check.
> 
> Comments about science studies or facts regarding wool being warmer than acrylic or acrylic not being warm:
> 
> "No ma'am, those are * scientific facts. * You are entitled to your own opinions by you're not entitled to your own "facts".
> 
> It's is * simply factual that acrylic is more dangerous and not particularly warm * for the very people who need warmth the most."
> ~page 18
> 
> "Again, the viewing the world from relatively affluent bubble is myopic. And yes, I would agree that you turn a "deaf ear" because your "selective hearing" is clearly contributing to your ignorance.
> 
> * It's simply a scientific fact that wool is much warmer than acrylic * to the point where it can make the difference between loosing one's fingers to frostbite or not.
> 
> And that YOU haven't caught on fire has nothing to do with the people who may have to sleep by an open fire or have rickety space heaters in their home in a desperate attempt to stay warm that catch on fire.
> 
> THESE are the circumstances that someone as relatively affluent as you don't have to worry about.
> 
> And applying YOUR circumstances to the disenfranchised is simply ... well ... stupid."
> ~page52
> 
> "It's not about "disagreement", * there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things. *
> 
> Secondly, anecdotal stories (i.e. personal experience) that are not honestly reflective of how many in the disenfranchised community live (as your's and your husband's was not), really does not add any useful information to the debate.
> 
> I'm happy that acrylic is warm enough for you and your husband even in a relatively cold climate, but it really has little to nothing to do with what it's like to be a disenfranchised person in a cold climate. People really need to learn to think outside their own life experiences and put themselves in other people's shoes -- if true compassion is a goal."
> ~ page 77
> 
> "Because you know darn well, when he's cold enough, there's a place for him to go be it a running car/truck or trailer nearby --- (and if he doesn't you should speak to a lawyer and sue for illegal workplace conditions) and therefore he'd never have to subject himself to the point of frostbite. Not to mention he can probably afford to layer and he can change items when they get too wet.
> 
> Secondly, you can tell your BS "acrylic keeps my snowman of a husband warm enough" story all you want, but science is science, not anecdotal stories invented and/or tweaked to win an argument on a discussion board.
> 
> * It's simply a scientific fact that wool is MUCH warmer than acrylic. *
> 
> If your husband working in those conditions never needed to change outerwear or go into a heated area to warm up while wearing one layer of acrylics either he's got "superman's" regulatory system, or the "story" that's being told isn't the full story."
> ~page 78
> 
> *"Again, it's not an opinion, it's a scientific fact.
> 
> Plastic yarn is for LOOKS not for warmth * ... and it's dangerous to those who are already vulnerable to being caught in fires.
> 
> Either you care about the recipients of that charity or you care about sniping back at me.
> 
> Clearly, you too, have chosen the latter. "
> ~ page 80
> 
> Here are a few where, while not mentioning science, you do state that acrylic is not warm:
> 
> * "The bottom line is that acrylic items don't keep the people who NEED the warmth the most warm * and they're dangerous to boot.
> 
> Caring about that, instead of whining about being insulted is what demonstrates to people what one's true motivations are.
> 
> People can whine about "rudeness" all they want, but it still remains that acrylic doesn't adequately keep people (who need it the most) warm and it is dangerous to a group of people who's at higher risk of being caught in a fire, especially children.
> 
> Pissing and moaning about how I or anyone else didn't say it politely enough, doesn't change that basic reality.
> 
> Other than it only further evinces someone's tendency for self-interest over the legitimate needs of the needy."
> ~page 15
> 
> "Insulting rohohappy doesn't changes the facts.
> 
> It's still true that * Acrylic is plastic that doesn't keep anyone warm * and is relatively dangerous.
> 
> If you're using it for charity, you're not really helping them. Period.
> 
> That remains true whether you personally attack people on disability or not."
> ~page 16
> 
> "You either need to read again or take some reading comprehension classes.
> 
> It's not about what someone personally chooses.
> 
> The argument is about charity knitting and that * acrylic yarn
> 
> 1) isn't warm *
> 2) is dangerous.
> 
> Now everyone, obviously has a right to make their choice.
> 
> But those who choose to use acrylic are not knitting things that are warm and are putting people who are already disenfranchised and at risk, at further risk.
> 
> If that's what you "choose" to do, there's no law against it. But, let's not pretend it's a thoughtful/wise choice to make.
> ~page 17
> 
> It's not "picky" to point out that people are genuinely put at risk when someone uses plastic yarn for charity knitting.
> 
> * This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT." *
> ~page 26
> 
> "OH THE HORROR!
> 
> You people have been stalking and attacking AmyKnits for how long... and as soon as someone gives you a taste of your own medicine you go running home to tell mommy someone isn't being nice to you?
> 
> Boo hoo.
> 
> It still won't change the * facts that Acrylic yarn is not warm * and endangers the needy and if that's what you're knitting for them, you're either thoughtless and selfish, or a simpleton.
> 
> But, all YOU care about is if someone was rude to you on a knitting board?
> 
> Keep showing your true colors."
> ~page 27
> 
> "Yes, why WOULD you ignore the * FACT that plastic yarn doesn't keep poor people warm * and endangers them.
> 
> Why obsess over a (w)itch on a knitting forum instead of doing the RIGHT thing?"
> ~page 59
> 
> So again, I am respectfully requesting the studies you reference. I find scientific studies enlightening and would love to add these to my knowledge base.


Should anybody be in doubt as to the "scientific fact" comments to which I am referring. I have included the entire posts made by the original poster in addition to the page numbers so people could reference those pages should there be any question as to context.


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> Should anybody be in doubt as to the "scientific fact" comments to which I am referring. I have included the entire posts made by the original poster in addition to the page numbers so people could reference those pages should there be any question as to context.


Thanks for going to all this trouble, LKHolcomb, I don't think anyone can doubt that these are the person in question's posts. It will be very easy to check, if there's doubt.


----------



## adili

suzy-kate said:


> Hope you do check back, text book in uni by Mary Humpheries full of great information, and being a text book refs all data. Info below.
> 
> Anyway just like some wools are warmer than others the same is true for acrylic it's all down to the loft, and just as the tests in the wool v acrylic blankets (posted earlier) showed, acrylic can be warmer or as warm as wool. The thin hard original type is the least warm, though it's still warmer than cotton.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Reference-Edition-Mary-Humphries/dp/0131588222


No, the tests posted earlier did NOT show that acrylic can be warmer or as warm as wool. With science, you compare like to like. Of course if you wear 4 acrylic mittens and compare them to ONE wool mitten, they MIGHT be warmer (_as well as even MORE suffocating to your skin_).

But the HONEST discussion is about when you compare like to like.

Wearing acrylic with a "higher loft" does not fix the problem of how acrylic suffocates your skin, in fact, it exacerbates the problem.

So, no, it's not accurate to make those sorts of false equivalences re: loft and layering etc...

You might knit with bulky acrylic yarn with a tighter gauge and that will likely make it warmer than worsted weight acrylic with a looser gauge.

It STILL will not be as warm as the equally COMPARABLE natural fiber yarn.

The reason fabrics like CoolMax had to be created in the first place was that because they were trying to fix the PROBLEM that existed with synthetic fibers. They were trying to MIMIC natural fibers.

For a synthetic fiber to do what a natural fiber does naturally, they have to specially manipulate it and they often have to add chemicals in order to do so, which adds a whole other set of problems.

So, if someone isn't into delving into studies and interpreting scientific verbiage, the fact that the textile industry is constantly trying to MIMIC natural fibers, should, if using common sense, tell you what you need to know.

I'm not even get into the question of Mary Humphries being in the textile industry and the extent to which she may depend on biased studies.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

painthoss said:


> Thanks for going to all this trouble, LKHolcomb, I don't think anyone can doubt that these are the person in question's posts. It will be very easy to check, if there's doubt.


And yet all of the studies provided prove that natural fibers are warmer than synthetic.

This is part of the problem, even when studies are provided, you don't seem capable of deciphering them or understanding them.

The only time synthetic is warmer is when it's physically manipulated, or chemically treated. That's what even the studies by the "pro-plastic" ilk said. Even the rubber gloves/mittens used by electricians NEEDED a cotton or wool liner in order to sufficiently wick moisture away.

Again, you all are more focused on ME than you are in actually trying to UNDERSTAND the information posted.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> Should anybody be in doubt as to the "scientific fact" comments to which I am referring. I have included the entire posts made by the original poster in addition to the page numbers so people could reference those pages should there be any question as to context.


No one ever denied I claimed that natural fibers are scientifically proven to be warmer.

But, WOW, quite the obsessive stalker, aren't you?

Here's the thing.

ALL of the studies posted so far prove that natural fibers are warmer, even the ones posted that someone THOUGHT proved otherwise.

So you'd be better off boning up on scientific reading comprehension skills than obsessively stalking ... that is if you were ACTUALLY interested in facts.

And for the record ALL the statements you dug up REMAIN TRUE, and all the studies posted so far support these statements:

So, I'm going to repeat all the things you quoted because they REMAIN TRUE:



> "No ma'am, those are scientific facts. You are entitled to your own opinions by you're not entitled to your own "facts".
> 
> "It's is simply factual that acrylic is more dangerous and not particularly warm for the very people who need warmth the most."
> 
> "It's simply a scientific fact that wool is much warmer than acrylic to the point where it can make the difference between loosing one's fingers to frostbite or not."
> 
> "It's not about "disagreement", there's this thing called science which can measure these sorts of things. "
> 
> "It's simply a scientific fact that wool is MUCH warmer than acrylic. "
> 
> "Again, it's not an opinion, it's a scientific fact."
> 
> "Plastic yarn is for LOOKS not for warmth ... and it's dangerous to those who are already vulnerable to being caught in fires."
> 
> "The bottom line is that acrylic items don't keep the people who NEED the warmth the most warm and they're dangerous to boot."
> 
> "It's still true that Acrylic is plastic that doesn't keep anyone warm and is relatively dangerous."
> 
> "The argument is about charity knitting and that acrylic yarn
> 
> 1) isn't warm
> 2) is dangerous."
> 
> "This isn't about "quality' of yarn, this argument is about the safety and warmth natural fibers provide and that plastic yarn DOES NOT."
> 
> "It still won't change the facts that Acrylic yarn is not warm and endangers the needy and if that's what you're knitting for them, you're either thoughtless and selfish, or a simpleton."
> 
> "Yes, why WOULD you ignore the FACT that plastic yarn doesn't keep poor people warm and endangers them."


Again, there isn't ONE STUDY posted here that makes any of the statements above untrue or inaccurate.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

painthoss said:


> Thanks for going to all this trouble, LKHolcomb, I don't think anyone can doubt that these are the person in question's posts. It will be very easy to check, if there's doubt.


There is no doubt, I said those things, never denied those things and now that the studies posted SUPPORT those things... I stand by those things, because I was absolutely accurate.


----------



## Lostie

my kmits are rarely moy foy ,yielfs delves butt horoyhr
eiroinh wear it goes. othrerfs.

otnerd


----------



## Lostie

oops, didn'y mewn post that.My oromorph workinh hid good?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

> Oh my dear! I do think you do not understand my purpose in stating the subjective comment. I was looking for scientific verification of a subjective claim. Not once did I attempt to put forth that subjective claim as an objective scientific fact.


Sure you did. You just put forth the argument that your "friends" have worn acrylic and find it to be warm.

Either you were offering that as "proof" of your preconcieved notions, or you thought for some strange reason people here were just DYING to know what your friends wear.

Besides, one apparently can't understand the studies that PROVED the subjective claim, or one is willfully distorting them.

Studies have been posted which prove my claims true, yet you keep asking for them as if they weren't posted.

Now, I'm not sure if that's because they're just going over your head or you're being willfully obtuse. But the facts are the facts.

*Scientifically, it's been proven over and over again that wool is warmer than acrylic when compared like for like. All those quotes of mine that have been so "meticulously" dug up, have been proven completely ACCURATE.*

Sweating because your skin can't breath is not true warmth. If you're prone to not understand the CONTEXT of this sentence: "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort." then you will misinterpret it's meaning, AS YOU HAVE.

Either that, or you willfully cherry picked the sentence to be intentionally misleading.

But what it is saying is that acrylic created a damp, clammy feeling will never be experienced with wool. THAT'S NOT WARMTH, but it's sometime EXPERIENCED as ""too hot", because for a BRIEF TIME, the body has trouble regulating. That's because instead of the body regulating the microclimate, the wool acclimatises the body in a way that acrylic can and does NOT.

It's wool's unique insulating properties especially when compared with synthetic fibers that make a huge difference.. It ensures that temperature changes are slow and gradual. Rapid changes in heat loss or gain would hinder temperature and humidity regulation.

THAT'S what we mean by warm. The people are not only warm enough, but are CONSISTENTLY warm enough and not uncomfortable and clammy.

Now that you seem to want to argue over semantics and that "clammy" conditions are sufficiently "warm" for those lowly poor people is part of what makes us believe that some people's moral priorities are deficient... to put it as nicely as possible.

My point is, the very studies you seem to think are supporting your POV... ARE NOT. You either don't understand them in their full context, or are willfully twisting the information.

(_such as posting a sentence like "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort.", as if it supports your POV_)


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> oops, didn'y mewn post that.My oromorph workinh hid good?


OO m'laedee yu maed a rite bo boo dare   :thumbup:


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Glenlady said:


> OO m'laedee yu maed a rite bo boo dare   :thumbup:


Drunk again?


----------



## Lostie

I dearliest wish I were. lots more funn than droolinhdg from onro morth


----------



## adili

BluesChanteuse said:


> Again, you all are more focused on ME than you are in actually trying to UNDERSTAND the information posted.


That's because they're not the least bit interested in truth, as they apparently aren't the least bit interested in doing what's best for the poor or even their own family members.

There's no point in dealing with those who want to stubbornly defend their "right" to crappy items. Which is of course their right.

Some people just aren't detail oriented and are not interested in quality or even making the extra effort to be thoughtful. Their only concern is to maintain the pretense that they do/are. And when someone lifts the veil on that pretense, they freak out.

That's all we're seeing here in their reaction to you, and so they've decided you're their enemy.

Nothing you're gonna be able to do about that.

I'd just back off at this point. Some people are just stubborn about their "right" to be ignorant.


----------



## misellen

adili said:


> That's because they're not the least bit interested in truth, as they apparently aren't the least bit interested in doing what's best for the poor or even their own family members.
> 
> There's no point in dealing with those who want to stubbornly defend their "right" to crappy items. Which is of course their right.
> 
> Some people just aren't detail oriented and are not interested in quality or even making the extra effort to be thoughtful. Their only concern is to maintain the pretense that they do/are. And when someone lifts the veil on that pretense, they freak out.
> 
> That's all we're seeing here in their reaction to you, and so they've decided you're their enemy.
> 
> Nothing you're gonna be able to do about that.
> 
> I'd just back off at this point. Some people are just stubborn about their "right" to be ignorant.


You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you on the behind.

Go get a life and stop showing your ignorance.


----------



## Glenlady

they say ignorance is bliss, so this lot must be very blissful, I say they're more to be pitied than scorned, little do they know what idiots they're making of themselves, a laughing stock indeed and the sooner you stop all this clap trap the better. :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> Sure you did. You just put forth the argument that your "friends" have worn acrylic and find it to be warm.
> 
> Either you were offering that as "proof" of your preconcieved notions, or you thought for some strange reason people here were just DYING to know what your friends wear.
> 
> Besides, one apparently can't understand the studies that PROVED the subjective claim, or one is willfully distorting them.
> 
> Studies have been posted which prove my claims true, yet you keep asking for them as if they weren't posted.
> 
> Now, I'm not sure if that's because they're just going over your head or you're being willfully obtuse. But the facts are the facts.
> 
> *Scientifically, it's been proven over and over again that wool is warmer than acrylic when compared like for like. All those quotes of mine that have been so "meticulously" dug up, have been proven completely ACCURATE.*
> 
> Sweating because your skin can't breath is not true warmth. If you're prone to not understand the CONTEXT of this sentence: "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort." then you will misinterpret it's meaning, AS YOU HAVE.
> 
> Either that, or you willfully cherry picked the sentence to be intentionally misleading.
> 
> But what it is saying is that acrylic created a damp, clammy feeling will never be experienced with wool. THAT'S NOT WARMTH, but it's sometime EXPERIENCED as ""too hot", because for a BRIEF TIME, the body has trouble regulating. That's because instead of the body regulating the microclimate, the wool acclimatises the body in a way that acrylic can and does NOT.
> 
> It's wool's unique insulating properties especially when compared with synthetic fibers that make a huge difference.. It ensures that temperature changes are slow and gradual. Rapid changes in heat loss or gain would hinder temperature and humidity regulation.
> 
> THAT'S what we mean by warm. The people are not only warm enough, but are CONSISTENTLY warm enough and not uncomfortable and clammy.
> 
> Now that you seem to want to argue over semantics and that "clammy" conditions are sufficiently "warm" for those lowly poor people is part of what makes us believe that some people's moral priorities are deficient... to put it as nicely as possible.
> 
> My point is, the very studies you seem to think are supporting your POV... ARE NOT. You either don't understand them in their full context, or are willfully twisting the information.
> 
> (_such as posting a sentence like "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort.", as if it supports your POV_)


As for whether I put forth the "proof" of my friends stating that acrylic was warmer that wool. If you note, I stated first that they stated this, as that was part of what piqued my curiosity as to the warmth of acrylic vs. wool. Then I stated the conclusion of my research and the research provided.

Perhaps, in addition to the process of scientific research (that one starts with the subjective claim to move to discover the objective claim), I should have explained research etiquette as well.

When a research study is written up, it is written in a specific order. First the reason for the study is written (subjective or theoretical claim), then after that is the conclusion of the research (objective). As you can see in my full post, that is how I put it in the post. Subjective claim I was trying to prove (wool is warmer than acrylic) followed by the results of research and review of research studies provided. Here is my full quote, as you can see I am following this format.



Lkholcomb said:


> But in the article, sixth paragraph down it states:
> 
> "The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort."
> 
> I am familiar with the attributes of consisten humidity under wool. But I have had several people in my life, who wear both acrylic and wool, tell me the acrylic was hotter.
> 
> Thank you for showing me an article with footnotes
> 
> Now I know that acrylic really is warmer, from scientific studies, that wool.


I do apologize for not making that research etiquette readily explainable, for anybody unfamiliar with research studies. I can provide generic research studies for anybody still unsure about the etiquette involved or one could go to www.pubmed.com for an indexing of studies. They are studies that have been published in peer reviewed journals (as is required before can declare it a "fact" as it allows others to copy the result and obtain the same or different results, thus validating the study or invalidating it. Peer review is very important for scientific studies, just a fun little aside).

Below you will find the article which I foolish only quoted a sentence from (the sixth paragraph down) instead of copying the entire article and highlighting the sentence.

Please, explain to me what it is that I am misinterpreting. I shall highlight the sentence, and any other that seem to support my conclusion that acrylic is warmer than wool, but that wool is a better regulator of humidity. Please remember I am only wondering about the superior to be warmer than acrylic. I am not looking for information regarding thermophysical comfort, humidity, or flammability. As I have stated many times previous.

"Wool  The Miracle Fibre

Comfort, Coolness, Resilience, Wrinkle Recovery, Absorption, Drape, Elasticity, Style,

Texture, Tenacity, Warmth

Wool has it all  naturally

Try as they may, scientists have not been able to produce a single fibre to match the properties of wool

There is a common misconception that wool is best suited exclusively for warmth in cool conditions. Scientific tests however negate this concept and consistently show that wool is ideal for apparel and bedding in hot, humid, dry, cold or wet conditions.

Wool has unique attributes, which give it superior performance to other fibres in a number of ways. Our bodies continually produce heat at a rate dependant on our activity level, this heat must be dissipated to the surroundings in the form of perspiration, at the same rate at which it is produced, to keep the body temperature constant1. When used in bedding wool creates a microclimate that assists in regulating body temperature and humidity. The degree to which body temperature and humidity is regulated is known as thermophysical comfort, that is, a state in which the individual is free from thermal stress.

Freedom from thermal stress is directly related to degree of rest. There are a number of thermophysical responses that can be measured to indicate how well rested a person is at any given time. Several studies examining and comparing the performance of wool blankets have consistently shown that in hot and cold conditions wool provides comfort and a more restful sleep than any other fibre type.

Umbach from the Holstein Institute in Germany, designed and undertook a series of studies to determine the measured responses which are most indicative of a rested nights sleep2. He found that first and foremost that the heart rate is the most accurate indicator. A person with a slow and regular heart beat is far more relaxed than a person with a fast pace and/or irregular heart beat. Two factors, which will be reflected in the heart rate, are the temperature and humidity of the bed microclimate. It is a well-known fact that in order for the major organs of the human body to function efficiently, the core temperature must be maintained at or near 37oC.

Using the thermophysical responses related to sleep behaviour, Umbach monitored several body and climate functions to compare the performance of wool versus acrylic blankets3. Subjects were monitored in environment controlled (temperature, humidity and airflow) rooms. It was found that the pulse rate of sleepers under wool blanket was normal at 60 beats per minute, where as it rose erratically up to 80 beats per minute under the acrylic blanket, indicating greater stress on the sleeping person. This was easily explained by Umbachs other observations: the wool blanket absorbed 50% more perspiration than the acrylic blanket, and cotton pyjamas worn by the participant remained drier while they were under wool blankets. * The microclimate under the acrylic blanket was too hot and humid for comfort. *

The Ergonomics Unit at the Polytechnic of Wales compared comfort properties and sleep patterns of subjects sleeping under duvets rather than blankets4, again in an environment controlled room. When the bedroom was at 16oC, all sleepers were comfortable although the humidity under the wool duvet was lower. Interestingly, pulse rates under the wool filled duvets were again found to be lower than under the polyester filled duvets.

* However, at 22oC the results were statistically discounted because the subjects under the polyester bedding exposed their limbs for periods of time in an effort to cool down. * This response was poor substitute for the thermophysically controlled microclimate as found under the wool duvet.

A third trial designed by P.R Dickson used the subjects own room and bed as a control. Time-lapse photography monitored movement during the night to determine the sleep quality5. Dickson found statistically significant differences in the number of immobile periods, immobile sequences, and the percentage of the total time spent sleeping with the wool blanket compared with the acrylic surface. Again the wool blanket was proven to be the most restful surface to sleep upon.

The positive health effect of sleeping with wool is best illustrated by a study by Scott et al6 of low birthweigth babies. This study found that babies nursed on lambs wool consistently showed a significant improvement in weight gain over and above those nursed by conventional methods using cotton.

Wools comfort advantages have traditionally been attributed to the capacity of the fibre to absorb a significant proportion of its own mass as watera7. Researchers agree that more than simply absorb, wool fibres have the ability to buffer by reacting to the humidity level within the particular environment. As the humidity rises, wool will absorb and store moisture as required. When the level decreases, the fibre releases the moisture thus regulating the microclimate. This property ensures that a damp, clammy feeling will never be experienced with wool. In this way, instead of the body regulating the microclimate, the wool bedding acclimatizes the body, ensuring a healthier rest with an even heart rate and blood pressure.

Another advantage of wool over other fibres is its outstanding insulating properties especially when compared with synthetic fibres8. The unique three-dimensional form of wool allows it to trap small pockets of air, thus giving it an insulating property. This property ensures that temperature changes are slow and gradual so that the beds microclimate has time to equilibrate. Rapid changes in heat loss or gain would hinder temperature and humidity regulation.

Wools natural resilience, is another property which aids comfort. The pile of an underlay will reduce pressure points and cushion the body. Tests using underlays with elderly and bedridden patients in hospitals have shown dramatic differences between the performance of wool and polyester bedpads. The following results clearly identify the advantages of wool.

Patients on wool had significant fewer skin problems than those on polyester pads. 77% of those on wool had no problems compared to 38% on polyester. Of those with debcutis, only 8% had a problem for more than one month while 38% on polyester had problems for a period for more than one month. In addition, no patients on wool pads had renewal of skin irritation once the initial problem had cleared up, while 14% had repetitive periods of irritation on polyesterb9. The health aspects of sleeping on wool continually outrank similar synthetic products.
________________________________________
a Wool can absorb 33.9% of its weight in water compared with synthetics at 0-4%, cotton 8%
b Sample space of twenty-six on wool underlays and twenty-one on polyester

An additional benefit to using wool products for bedding is the peace of mind in knowing wool is naturally resistant to ignition and is self-extinguishing. Perhaps the most dramatic demonstration of this was a trial developed to evaluate wool and polyester overlays to the British Standard B.S 7175. The ignition sources were, from one to six; a cigarette, 3 butane flames (the smallest of which represents a burning match) and 4 wooden cribs of various weights.

Results showed that the mattress assembly containing the wool underlay was capable of resisting ignition source 5, (wooden crib 16g) with no evidence of progressing smoldering. The polyester overlay however, when tested with a simulated match (ignition source 2) was found to act as a secondary source of ignition requiring extinguishing after eight minutes10. The ignition sources are numbered relative to their propensity to ignite the test material.

Wool with its unique physical properties is the ideal fibre for bedding applications, it has been subjectively and scientifically proven from a number of perspectives that wool has the advantage over other fibre types. Irrespective of whether wool is used for protection or comfort, its applications are suitable for conditions ranging from hot and humid tropics to the harsh and freezing Antarctic.

* Wool has it all:-
- superior insulation
- resilience
- moisture absorption
- moisture buffering
- flame resistance
- therapeutic value *
On wool, natures miracle fibre, you will rest comfortably, safely and rest assured.

_______________________________________________________________
Bibliography

1 Wool  Why is it comfortable?, B.Holcombe, Proceedings of the 8th Int. Wool Text. Res. Conf., Vol V., Fibre 
assemblies and product Properties, ed G.H Cranshaw (WRONZ) 1990, 205-214.
2 Comparative Thermophysical tests on Blankets Made From Wool and Acrylic-Fibre-Cotton Blends, K.H.Umbach, 
J.Text. Inst., 1986, No.3.
3 Comparative Thermophysical Tests on Blankets Made From Wool and Acrylic-Fibre-Cotton Blends, K.H.Umbach, 
J.Text. Inst., 1986, No.3.
4 An Ergonomic Comparison of Wool and Polyester-Filled Quilts , Polytechnic of Wales, Ergonomics Unit,
published in IWS Technical Letter Number 26.
5 Effect of a fleecy woollen underlay on sleep, P.R.Dickson, The medical Journal of Australia, January 21, 1984,
p87-89
6 Weight Gain and movement patterns of Very Low Birthweight Babies Nursed on Lambswool, S.Scott, P.Lucas, . 
T.Cole and M.Richards, Child care and development Group University of Cambridge and the MRC Dunn Nutrition 
Unit Cambridge, Oct 1980-Sept 1981.
7 W.E Morton and J.W.S Hearle, Physical Properties of Fibre, The Textile Institute Manchester, 1986 Edition
8 W.E Morton and J.W.S Hearle, Physical Properties of Fibre, The Textile Institute Manchester 1986 Edition.
9 Wool Pile Sliver Knit Bedpan Evaluation at Franklin Park Nursing Home, L.R.Mizell, W.H.Marsden and V.Butler, 
Summary report by New Market Outlet Section,IWS November 1974.
10 CPB-99 The Flammability Performance of Wool and Polyester Mattress Overlays, R.Woolin, J.LWebb, IWS
Technical Information Bulletin, 29 June 1987. "

Please note that my last highlighted area did not state that one of wool illustrious properties was "greater warmth". If it was indeed warmer than acrylic, and indeed that was what the study proved, it would be stated in the conclusion as one of its numerous qualities in the list provided.

And yet again, I am not discussing knitting for the poor. To my knowledge I have not as yet even mentioned if I have knitted for the poor or plan to. This is strictly about correcting any untruth I may have, by replacing them with the scientific data, as it seems to be there is an abundance of that hidden from my searching and closely guarded by those who hold it.

I shall also re-read the entire thread in search of those studies. I have no problem reading it a fourth time if it results in a blossom of new truth, much as a flower results in a blossom. Both are beautiful things, no?


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> And yet again, I am not discussing knitting for the poor.


But, I _WAS_ discussing the poor and you were often responding to me. Even your quoting my posts you bolded the parts you wanted to address while you failed to bold the parts you wanted to avoid.

That's called "cherry picking" and it's a dishonest form of argument to purposely leave out the context of an argument, and then you did the same with the study, _so this seems to be a habitual problem_ with your responses.

*It still remains that the studies reveal that acrylic is not sufficiently warm compared like for like to acrylic.* I was right, the studies confirm it. Even the study that you thought debunked it.

The acrylic does not REALLY provide warmth in so much as it makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the body self-regulate. After a brief period of the body sweating due to the lack of the skin's inability to breath, people are left cold and clammy.

That acrylic does that is ESPECIALLY problematic when it comes to babies because their bodies are already not as efficient as adult bodies to self-regulate. Putting acrylic on babies (poor or rich or in-between) is also, not the wisest of choices.

In addition, acrylic is not a wise choice for the poor _OR ANY family member/friend_ because of the increased dangers the melting plastic would have on injuries caused by fire. But it's especially rotten when these items are given to the disenfranchised, because they are at higher risk of being the victim of fires.

And as I pointed out in past posts.... if one WISHES to play that kind or numbers game with the safety of the poor OR family members, I certainly have never claimed you don't have the right to do that.

I merely explained why it's not a particularly thoughtful or caring choice for either the poor OR one's family/friends.

_*And the studies have confirmed my contentions.*_


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> But, I _WAS_ discussing the poor and you were often responding to me. Even your quoting my posts you bolded the parts you wanted to address while you failed to bold the parts you wanted to avoid.
> 
> That's called "cherry picking" and it's a dishonest form of argument to purposely leave out the context of an argument, and then you did the same with the study, _so this seems to be a habitual problem_ with your responses.
> 
> *It still remains that the studies reveal that acrylic is not sufficiently warm compared like for like to acrylic.* I was right, the studies confirm it. Even the study that you thought debunked it.
> 
> The acrylic does not REALLY provide warmth in so much as it makes it difficult, if not impossible, for the body self-regulate. After a brief period of the body sweating due to the lack of the skin's inability to breath, people are left cold and clammy.
> 
> That acrylic does that is ESPECIALLY problematic when it comes to babies because their bodies are already not as efficient as adult bodies to self-regulate. Putting acrylic on babies (poor or rich or in-between) is also, not the wisest of choices.
> 
> In addition, acrylic is not a wise choice for the poor _OR ANY family member/friend_ because of the increased dangers the melting plastic would have on injuries caused by fire. But it's especially rotten when these items are given to the disenfranchised, because they are at higher risk of being the victim of fires.
> 
> And as I pointed out in past posts.... if one WISHES to play that kind or numbers game with the safety of the poor OR family members, I certainly have never claimed you don't have the right to do that.
> 
> I merely explained why it's not a particularly thoughtful or caring choice for either the poor OR one's family/friends.
> 
> _*And the studies have confirmed my contentions.*_


As I stated before I am asking the question re the warmth of wool vs acrylic because I have been unable to find the studies supporting it. As I said in a previous post I research the issues separately and if I find information in line with what is stated I do not ask for studies. That would be silly, asking for studies so easily available with a little research. It would be demanding studies I already have.

It would be akin to you stating the sky is blue and me demanding proof, even though I already have my proof. I do not waste my time asking for studies I already have. That would be pointless and frivolous.

I have specifically "cherry picked" because that is a scientific claim that should be verifiable. All scientific claims are verifiable by scientific studies, with an adequate control and experimental group, published, peer reviewed, and repeatable (with the same results). As you can see it is more than just saying it is science or a blogger saying that "scientific studies" say something without foot noting the study for verification.

As for the issue this thread did not even begin with a discussion of acrylic vs wool for warmth. It started as a topic of the price of yarn, but as usually happens in a discussion it progressed.

In fact the conversation started with the price of yarn and then the progression happened:

Pg 3 it was brought up regarding charity knitting and expensive yarn vs inexpensive

Pg 4 The discussion progressed to "charity knitting" chemotherapy patients and homeless (or as you would so eloquently say "poor people" )

Pg 9 The discussion started about warmth of wool vs acrylic

Pg 10 The discussion was quality of yarn, one mention of warmth of wool

Pg 11 The mention of flammability of acrylic

Pg 12 The conversation turned to whether the "poor people" (so eloquently put) deserved wool or acrylic

As you can see the flammability properties if acrylic was not mentioned until page 11. The discussion of what those less fortunate "deserved" did not begin until page 12.

So as you can see, the conversation first moved to the warmth of wool before veering off. I did not respond immediately partly because I was actually looking for studies to verify the claims. Instead of wasting time arguing or demanding studies immediately, I did research. This was partly the reason I did not post until the pages were in the 80's. So I was responding to the first claims and still am. Claims you have strongly defended, while stating knowledge of closely guarded scientific studies.

I am still not done reading the post again in its entirety as I want to take my time in examining all the studies and links provided. However it did remind me how the conversation progresses.

I have copied the entire article, with the scientific studies footnoted, perhaps you would be generous enough to show me the parts that negate my conclusion of the article? You could always do as I did and bold the parts that show me the truth, you seem to be extraordinarily gifted with highlighting things.

I must say, though, that the article was rather informative on the properties of the wool regulating the humidity, instead of the body regulating it as with the acrylic.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> As I stated before I am asking the question re the warmth of wool vs acrylic because I have been unable to find the studies supporting it.


Bull, studies were posted both before and after I came here. You just conveniently ignored them. And when you couldn't ignore them, you "misread" them.



Lkholcomb said:


> So as you can see, the conversation first moved to the warmth of wool before veering off.


No, you hyper-focused obsessively on me in particular, cherry picked and then asked the intellectual equivalent of "_prove water is wet or that the world isn't flat_" in order to deflect and cause trouble.

Regardless -- everything I said turned out to be true.

And it still remains that I and others were perfectly justified in stating what we did, and people had conniption fits simply because they didn't LIKE the truth and attacked the messengers.

When they were responded to IN KIND, then they whined like babies.

It's still true that once you understand that acrylic is not a particularly thoughtful choice, and then you CONTINUE to knit with it for poor people and "loved ones" anyway, then you've made a certain KIND of decision, that doesn't, quite frankly, include much kindness.


----------



## misellen

We seem to have a number of frustrated authors on this thread. I just cannot decide if they want to write serious magazine articles or not-so-serious fiction short stories.


----------



## suzy-kate

misellen said:


> We seem to have a number of frustrated authors on this thread. I just cannot decide if they want to write serious magazine articles or not-so-serious fiction short stories.


LOL


----------



## Glenlady

suzy-kate said:


> LOL


LOL :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

BluesChanteuse said:


> No, you hyper-focused obsessively on me in particular, cherry picked and then asked the intellectual equivalent of "_prove water is wet or that the world isn't flat_" in order to deflect and cause trouble.
> 
> Regardless -- everything I said turned out to be true.
> 
> And it still remains that I and others were perfectly justified in stating what we did, and people had conniption fits simply because they didn't LIKE the truth and attacked the messengers.
> 
> When they were responded to IN KIND, then they whined like babies.
> 
> It's still true that once you understand that acrylic is not a particularly thoughtful choice, and then you CONTINUE to knit with it for poor people and "loved ones" anyway, then you've made a certain KIND of decision, that doesn't, quite frankly, include much kindness.


Oh my, if I were a stalker or obsessive I must be quite inexperienced as My first post (page 83) was not addressed to anyone, just a general request for studies proving wool warmer than acrylic. To this 2 people other than you responded and I responded back to them. You responded to a post regarding coolmax (from a study that had been provided when I asked for them) not being acrylic. I then shared information I had gleaned from the website regarding it being 97% recycled plastic bottles. I then addressed you, since I had noted in my reading of the post that you stated wool warmer than acrylic, and asked for the studies you had obviously seen.


----------



## Lkholcomb

I have indeed re-read the entire post as i stated i would. I made sure to take notes regarding the links and studies provided so as to be sure I was thorough. I was hopeful I would find those studies proving wool warmer than acrylic, but yet again that hope was dashed. I have included those notes, for reference, should anybody be interested. Should anybody have any scientific studies with an adequate control and experimental group, repeatable, peer reviewed, and published I would be highly interested to read them. If you do not have them, please feel free to not reply to this post.

My notes:

Pg 1 - no studies, only link to a store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 2 - No links or studies

Pg 3 - no studies, only links to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 4- no studies, only links to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 5- no studies or links

Pg 6- no studies, only link to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options

Pg 7- no studies, only link to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 8- no studies, only link to store

http://www.iceyarns.com/promotion

Pg 9- no studies, only link to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 10- no studies, only link in posts were to store

http://www.soysilk.com/index.html

Pg 11- no studies, only link to store

http://www.colourmart.com/eng/

Pg 12- no studies (someone showed a picture of a burn test, but no study), no links

Pg 13- 16 no studies or links

Pg 17- no studies, only link to KP post

Pg 18-30 no studies or links

Pg 31- no studies, only one link to a youtube video regarding flammability of acrylic






Pg 32-52 no studies or links

Pg 53- no studies, only link to guide to burning of fibers

http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm

Pg 54- no studies, on link to pie recipe

http://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/caramel-apple-walnut-pie

Pg 55-Pg 64 no studies or links

Pg 65- no studies only link to a website with tips for those making charity items

http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/

Pg 66- no studies only link to website with tips for those making charity items

http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/

Pg 67- no studies, only links to store and tips for those making charity items

http://www.yarn-paradise.com/promotion/o/4

http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/

Pg 68-Pg 79 no studies or links

Pg 80- no links, one listing of 5 studies regarding acrylic amide and cancer risk associated in last post on the page

Pg 81- links to articles regarding flammability of fabrics (not footnoted), fabric variations (not footnoted), another KP post regarding eyelash yarn, an article regarding breast cancer and acrylic fibers (footnoted) respectively

http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp
http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml
http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4302230&t=215202
http://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/breast-cancer-and-acrylic-fibers/

Pg 82- 4 links to articles regarding flammability of fabrics (not footnoted), fabric variations (not footnoted), link to pasadena fact sheet (not footnoted), and an article about flammability of fabrics (adapted from another publication, but the website it used as a reference with the information turned up no such publication when searched)

http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp
http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml
http://www.cityofpasadena.net/Fire/Flammable_Fabrics/
http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm

Pg 83- links provided first a PETA website (not footnoted), then the hotly contested article (with footnotes),

http://www.peta.org/living/fashion/cruelty-free-clothing-guide/cruelty-free-clothing-guide-introduction/
http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc

Studies provided:

Influence of different kind of clothing material on selected cardiovascular, respiratory and psychomotor parameters during moderate physical exercise. Ciesielska I, Mokwiński M, Orłowska-Majdak M. (conclusion is The course of physiological processes depends on the kind of clothing a given person is wearing. It is not possible to clearly define which of the two clothing materials: natural - wool, or synthetic - acrylic is better. Each of them exerts a different effect on the human organism. The usefulness of a given type of clothing material seems to depend on the human physiological state and the related thermoregulatory processes.)

Textiles and sun protection.
Robson J, Diffey BL.

Comfort and performance of power line maintainers' gloves during electrical utility work in the cold. Hunt S, Boyle C, Wells R.

Real evaporative cooling efficiency of one-layer tight-fitting sportswear in a hot environment. Wang F, Annaheim S, Morrissey M, Rossi RM

Pg 84- study in quotes from previous page, 2 links in quotes from previous page, 1 link to coolmax website

http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html

Pg 85- no studies, only link in quotes from previous page

Pg 86- no studies or links

Pg 87-no studies, links to the much contested article (with footnotes) again, and fabric referenced book

http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc
http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Reference-Edition-Mary-Humphries/dp/0131588222

Pg 88- no studies, only links in quotes from previous pages

Pg 89- no links, however the contested article was quoted in its entirety, including footnotes


----------



## misellen

Lkholcomb said:


> I have indeed re-read the entire post as i stated i would. I made sure to take notes regarding the links and studies provided so as to be sure I was thorough. I was hopeful I would find those studies proving wool warmer than acrylic, but yet again that hope was dashed. I have included those notes, for reference, should anybody be interested. Should anybody have any scientific studies with an adequate control and experimental group, repeatable, peer reviewed, and published I would be highly interested to read them. If you do not have them, please feel free to not reply to this post.
> 
> My notes:
> 
> Pg 1 - no studies, only link to a store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 2 - No links or studies
> 
> Pg 3 - no studies, only links to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 4- no studies, only links to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 5- no studies or links
> 
> Pg 6- no studies, only link to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/patterns_samples_extras/patterns_samples_twisting_options/samples_yarn_winding_twisting_options/twisting_winding_options
> 
> Pg 7- no studies, only link to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 8- no studies, only link to store
> 
> http://www.iceyarns.com/promotion
> 
> Pg 9- no studies, only link to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 10- no studies, only link in posts were to store
> 
> http://www.soysilk.com/index.html
> 
> Pg 11- no studies, only link to store
> 
> http://www.colourmart.com/eng/
> 
> Pg 12- no studies (someone showed a picture of a burn test, but no study), no links
> 
> Pg 13- 16 no studies or links
> 
> Pg 17- no studies, only link to KP post
> 
> Pg 18-30 no studies or links
> 
> Pg 31- no studies, only one link to a youtube video regarding flammability of acrylic
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pg 32-52 no studies or links
> 
> Pg 53- no studies, only link to guide to burning of fibers
> 
> http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm
> 
> Pg 54- no studies, on link to pie recipe
> 
> http://www.tasteofhome.com/recipes/caramel-apple-walnut-pie
> 
> Pg 55-Pg 64 no studies or links
> 
> Pg 65- no studies only link to a website with tips for those making charity items
> 
> http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/
> 
> Pg 66- no studies only link to website with tips for those making charity items
> 
> http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/
> 
> Pg 67- no studies, only links to store and tips for those making charity items
> 
> http://www.yarn-paradise.com/promotion/o/4
> 
> http://thefamily.com/2011/12/13/charity-knitting-and-crocheting-ideas-and-tips-bev-qualheim/
> 
> Pg 68-Pg 79 no studies or links
> 
> Pg 80- no links, one listing of 5 studies regarding acrylic amide and cancer risk associated in last post on the page
> 
> Pg 81- links to articles regarding flammability of fabrics (not footnoted), fabric variations (not footnoted), another KP post regarding eyelash yarn, an article regarding breast cancer and acrylic fibers (footnoted) respectively
> 
> http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp
> http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/tpr?p=4302230&t=215202
> http://oecotextiles.wordpress.com/2010/09/16/breast-cancer-and-acrylic-fibers/
> 
> Pg 82- 4 links to articles regarding flammability of fabrics (not footnoted), fabric variations (not footnoted), link to pasadena fact sheet (not footnoted), and an article about flammability of fabrics (adapted from another publication, but the website it used as a reference with the information turned up no such publication when searched)
> 
> http://www.resistflamefinishing.com/flammability_of_fabrics.asp
> http://www.fuzzygalore.biz/articles/flammability.shtml
> http://www.cityofpasadena.net/Fire/Flammable_Fabrics/
> http://missourifamilies.org/features/materialarticles/feature7.htm
> 
> Pg 83- links provided first a PETA website (not footnoted), then the hotly contested article (with footnotes),
> 
> http://www.peta.org/living/fashion/cruelty-free-clothing-guide/cruelty-free-clothing-guide-introduction/
> http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc
> 
> Studies provided:
> 
> Influence of different kind of clothing material on selected cardiovascular, respiratory and psychomotor parameters during moderate physical exercise. Ciesielska I, Mokwiński M, Orłowska-Majdak M. (conclusion is The course of physiological processes depends on the kind of clothing a given person is wearing. It is not possible to clearly define which of the two clothing materials: natural - wool, or synthetic - acrylic is better. Each of them exerts a different effect on the human organism. The usefulness of a given type of clothing material seems to depend on the human physiological state and the related thermoregulatory processes.)
> 
> Textiles and sun protection.
> Robson J, Diffey BL.
> 
> Comfort and performance of power line maintainers' gloves during electrical utility work in the cold. Hunt S, Boyle C, Wells R.
> 
> Real evaporative cooling efficiency of one-layer tight-fitting sportswear in a hot environment. Wang F, Annaheim S, Morrissey M, Rossi RM
> 
> Pg 84- study in quotes from previous page, 2 links in quotes from previous page, 1 link to coolmax website
> 
> http://www.invista.com/en/news/pr-coolmax_expands_leagwear_press_release.html
> 
> Pg 85- no studies, only link in quotes from previous page
> 
> Pg 86- no studies or links
> 
> Pg 87-no studies, links to the much contested article (with footnotes) again, and fabric referenced book
> 
> http://www.fleeceproducts.com/Send%20data/Wool%20the%20Miracle%20Fibre.doc
> http://www.amazon.com/Fabric-Reference-Edition-Mary-Humphries/dp/0131588222
> 
> Pg 88- no studies, only links in quotes from previous pages
> 
> Pg 89- no links, however the contested article was quoted in its entirety, including footnotes


What is the purpose of this?


----------



## painthoss

misellen said:


> What is the purpose of this?


misellen, LKHolcomb is proving that the links and studies that BC has claimed repeated to have posted here, have not in fact been posted here.


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> misellen, LKHolcomb is proving that the links and studies that BC has claimed repeated to have posted here, have not in fact been posted here.


So she is trying to prove something to someone who is incapable of understanding (or accepting) that proof?


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> So she is trying to prove something to someone who is incapable of understanding (or accepting) that proof?


think I'll go and bake some cup cakes to cheer myself up, it's a cold day so I shall wear my acrylic cardigan whilst I'm in my cold kitchen, gotta save on heating bills.


----------



## painthoss

misellen said:


> So she is trying to prove something to someone who is incapable of understanding (or accepting) that proof?


LKH is intelligent and thoughtful. I feel sure she has a plan. Plus, her clear, elegant writing style is a pleasure to read. That's what keeps me reading here right now.


----------



## Mary Su 2

painthoss said:


> LKH is intelligent and thoughtful. I feel sure she has a plan. Plus, her clear, elegant writing style is a pleasure to read. That's what keeps me reading here right now.


I completely agree with you on this point. However, I also agree with misellen that LKH is trying to prove something to someone who is either incapable or simply refuses to accept that proof!


----------



## katyboom

And you ladies keep complaining about certain ones and their badness and here you are flogging a dead horse just so someone will notice and make a comment and then bang the "entertainment" starts again..

Flatter one and bash another and surmise that because an opinion is shared then they are obviously one and the same person. Heck they could even be four ppl...

As I said before age does not mean maturity exists....

Are you trying to hit 100 pages to see what happens????


----------



## Lkholcomb

I posted my last post regarding looking for the scientific studies to show it is fact for four reasons:

(1) to demonstrate that in proving something you must provide your research (not only a yes/no back and forth) as there seems to be come misunderstanding of what Is required for a study

(2) to list my sources (again, done with reliable scientific studies and papers) so others may check for themselves

(3) for others to be able to repeat my research, with the same result using the parameters included

(4) and in (what I had hoped WOULD happen, but did not) case of me actually being able to find the studies it would have been simple to show it to others as well, instead of asking others to take my word on a scientific fact.

The problem, and I believe why many do not understand my reasoning, is that I believe than many people today in the world confuse "I know/feel/believe" something to be the same as "scientific fact". Why just here, people missed that I was simply only doing what I asked another to do, in proving their point. I would have been greatly remiss to have asked for proof but then provided none myself of the missing studies. Tsk, Tsk, next time I shall maybe posted a "forward" on my post.

I am simply on the search for scentific fact, no matter where it takes me.

For example I had been under the mistaken impression that alpaca yarn was proven warmer than wool. However, because of not wanting to pass on incorrect information I looked for said studies. I do not wish to propagate anything as fact unless it is. So from now on, should I feel that alpaca is warmer than wool or acrylic, I shall phrase it as, "I * feel * that alpaca is warmer than wool/acrylic". It is as simple as that, subjective claims need no verification.

I cannot in good consciousness pass on the "fact" that wool is warmer than acrylic, unless I know it to be verifiable, I just as I cannot pass on the "fact" that alpaca is warmer than wool. "Fact" simply cannot be proven by "looking around."

Btw I could read it in a relatively short time because of something called speed reading. Those of us who have been reading a very long time and who do it all the time get rather adept at it. I'm surprised so many have not heard of it.

Again, should someone have the said studies regarding wool being warmer than acrylic then please reply, if not, again, feel free to not respond.


----------



## vjh1530

katyboom said:


> And you ladies keep complaining about certain ones and their badness and here you are flogging a dead horse just so someone will notice and make a comment and then bang the "entertainment" starts again..
> 
> Flatter one and bash another and surmise that because an opinion is shared then they are obviously one and the same person. Heck they could even be four ppl...
> 
> As I said before age does not mean maturity exists....
> 
> Are you trying to hit 100 pages to see what happens????


Maybe you should try your own advice. If you dislike it so much, stop posting yourself. You do nothing but bash the good guys to the point I am thinking you are nothing but another version of BC. I seriously doubt YOUR maturity. If you don't like what is being said, click unwatch. No one is forcing you to read anything here, and you have never added an iota of worth to the conversation except to whine. I had promised myself I was done here, but you are on my last nerve.


----------



## Angela W

What amazingly, incredibly, beautifully marked tabby cats! I miss our darling old Poppy (tabby) so much... but we both feel we're too old to get another cat, even an elderly one... though we did always each have a clause in our Will as to who was going to care for Poppy "if".... and she had a bank account to go with her too to pay for vet bills etc


----------



## Angela W

I recently saw/touched balls of ALPACA yarn... even softer than cashmere.... and even more expensive!!!


----------



## Lkholcomb

Angela W said:


> I recently saw/touched balls of ALPACA yarn... even softer than cashmere.... and even more expensive!!!


They are! Especially the baby (cria) first sheerings. That felt decidedly heavenly. I spin myself and enjoy that entire process.


----------



## Glenlady

Angela W said:


> What amazingly, incredibly, beautifully marked tabby cats! I miss our darling old Poppy (tabby) so much... but we both feel we're too old to get another cat, even an elderly one... though we did always each have a clause in our Will as to who was going to care for Poppy "if".... and she had a bank account to go with her too to pay for vet bills etc


I have a beautiful black cat (avatar) he's from a rescue centre, also another black cat who has adopted me, he lives in an upturned barrel on the roof of my small shed with blankets I knitted for him of course, I can't allow him in the house because 'BORIS' who is a house cat would not accept him, he 's well fed and quite happy with this arrangment
 He does sometimes sneaks into my next door neighbours house, she loves him too. :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

Glenlady said:


> I have a beautiful black cat (avatar) he's from a rescue centre, also another black cat who has adopted me, he lives in an upturned barrel on the roof of my small shed with blankets I knitted for him of course, I can't allow him in the house because 'BORIS' who is a house cat would not accept him, he 's well fed and quite happy with this arrangment
> He does sometimes sneaks into my next door neighbours house, she loves him too. :thumbup:


We have 5 rescue cats from a shelter. Two tabby/ orange ones (mine and my son's), two twin grey/black/white tabbies, and one a black and white one. Then we have an outside cat that was a stray that my in laws tried to domesticate, but it didn't work, lol. He was outside/indoor but hated any inside time and after biting/scratching he is now outside only. He is so much happier.

My son had a black cat before and we still miss him, he was our only black cat thus far.

Cats are wonderful creatures!


----------



## katyboom

vjh1530 said:


> Maybe you should try your own advice. If you dislike it so much, stop posting yourself. You do nothing but bash the good guys to the point I am thinking you are nothing but another version of BC. I seriously doubt YOUR maturity. If you don't like what is being said, click unwatch. No one is forcing you to read anything here, and you have never added an iota of worth to the conversation except to whine. I had promised myself I was done here, but you are on my last nerve.


Please. Tell me. Whom have I bashed? And I don't recall whining? I have made statements. Tried to add to the intelligent conversation. Perhaps you should reread the posts.


----------



## painthoss

katyboom said:


> And you ladies keep complaining about certain ones and their badness and here you are flogging a dead horse just so someone will notice and make a comment and then bang the "entertainment" starts again..
> 
> Flatter one and bash another and surmise that because an opinion is shared then they are obviously one and the same person. Heck they could even be four ppl...
> 
> As I said before age does not mean maturity exists....
> 
> Are you trying to hit 100 pages to see what happens????


Katyboom, why are you reading if you don't like it? I'm sorry yOu find our conversations, interests, and maturity level not to your expectation, but there is an easy cure. Go read elsewhere. I hope you find someplace where you enjoy what you find.


----------



## painthoss

Glenlady said:


> think I'll go and bake some cup cakes to cheer myself up, it's a cold day so I shall wear my acrylic cardigan whilst I'm in my cold kitchen, gotta save on heating bills.


I'm avoiding sugar myself but I love to bake. can I hang with you and help?


----------



## Glenlady

Lkholcomb said:


> We have 5 rescue cats from a shelter. Two tabby/ orange ones (mine and my son's), two twin grey/black/white tabbies, and one a black and white one. Then we have an outside cat that was a stray that my in laws tried to domesticate, but it didn't work, lol. He was outside/indoor but hated any inside time and after biting/scratching he is now outside only. He is so much happier.
> 
> My son had a black cat before and we still miss him, he was our only black cat thus far.
> 
> Cats are wonderful creatures!


The problem I find when I visit an animal shelter is-- they all seem to look at you and say please choose me!Had I thought at the time I got Boris I would have chosen another, too late now because I know he would feel as if his nose was put out of joint. Yes you are right,cats are wonderful, I love all animals, we have always had dogs but now that I'm getting older, I couldn't give it the excersise it would need, so I'll just be happy with Boris
 :thumbup:


----------



## mmorris

I have 3 Siamese and learned quickly that 'you don't own them--they own you.'  :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> The problem I find when I visit an animal shelter is-- they all seem to look at you and say please choose me!Had I thought at the time I got Boris I would have chosen another, too late now because I know he would feel as if his nose was put out of joint. Yes you are right,cats are wonderful, I love all animals, we have always had dogs but now that I'm getting older, I couldn't give it the excersise it would need, so I'll just be happy with Boris
> :thumbup:


I know what you mean. I don't dare go to a shelter because I would want to come home with all of them. And my pleasure in the one I adopted would be dimmed by the sadness I felt at leaving others behind.

Most of my cats havd been strays that I took in off the street or that were abandoned by people who just didn't want them.

Punky (my current owner) was born to a stray under the corner of my house. Momma Kat disappeared when the kittens were three weeks old so I took them in. One died as a kitten but I raised the other two. Scamp died two years ago but I still have Punky (or rather he still has me) and he is fifteen years old.


----------



## pammash

:thumbup:


----------



## vjh1530

I am so allergic to cats, so I envy you guys your beautiful pets. I've never had one, but have enjoyed playing with them at friends' houses. They are so different from dogs, much more playful. I love my dogs, but would enjoy a pretty kitty to cuddle!


----------



## Glenlady

I've read somewhere , you don't own a cat it owns you, they are so independant arent they, and certainly have minds of their own  -- Just have to say 'Isn't it lovely to have a decent conversation ?'' even if it is only about cats !! :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

vjh1530 said:


> I am so allergic to cats, so I envy you guys your beautiful pets. I've never had one, but have enjoyed playing with them at friends' houses. They are so different from dogs, much more playful. I love my dogs, but would enjoy a pretty kitty to cuddle!


I had a friend who was allergic to cats (severe asthma) but she found she was not bothered by the black and whites (tuxedo cats). One of them adopted her and she ended up with the cat sleeping on the bed with her and no problems. But if she got around any other type of cat she would have an asthma attack.


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> I had a friend who was allergic to cats (severe asthma) but she found she was not bothered by the black and whites (tuxedo cats). One of them adopted her and she ended up with the cat sleeping on the bed with her and no problems. But if she got around any other type of cat she would have an asthma attack.


That is lovely to know she found a kitty that didn't affect her :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> That is lovely to know she found a kitty that didn't affect her :thumbup:


It was nice because she loved cats but had never been able to have one.

Funny thing too. She used to feed several strays outside. Another black and white from the neighborhood started coming around at feeding time and she found she could hold and pet him with no problem also. But not any of the others. Apparently their is something different about the black and whites and they didn't have the allergen that effected her.


----------



## Lostie

misellen said:


> It was nice because she loved cats but had never been able to have one.
> 
> Funny thing too. She used to feed several strays outside. Another black and white from the neighborhood started coming around at feeding time and she found she could hold and pet him with no problem also. But not any of the others. Apparently their is something different about the black and whites and they didn't have the allergen that effected her.


I love cats too, but am allergic to them - they make my eyes look like fried eggs. But not the black and white ones ....
I have a cousin who gets terrible asthma with dogs - but not poodles. Strange, isn't it ?


----------



## whitknits

I have a feeling that some of these really high-priced yarns are made into smaller accessories.


----------



## Lostie

whitknits said:


> I have a feeling that some of these really high-priced yarns are made into smaller accessories.


I'm sure they must be - for me, anyway. I love the shawl in your avatar by the way
:thumbup:


----------



## misellen

whitknits said:


> I have a feeling that some of these really high-priced yarns are made into smaller accessories.


I think so too. Not many could pay those prices for large things like sweaters. And if you did, you would be afraid to wear it.

I have been thinking about getting some cashmere or alpaca to make a shawlette or scarf.


----------



## Lostie

misellen said:


> I think so too. Not many could pay those prices for large things like sweaters. And if you did, you would be afraid to wear it.
> 
> I have been thinking about getting some cashmere or alpaca to make a shawlette or scarf.


the good thing, if you want to treat yourself, is that a little cashmere can go a long way


----------



## misellen

Lostie said:


> the good thing, if you want to treat yourself, is that a little cashmere can go a long way


Also, I wonder how it would look in a hat. Not one of those beenie things but one with a little more style. OR one of the hooded scarfs. That would just wrap your head in luxury wouldn't it?


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> Also, I wonder how it would look in a hat. Not one of those beenie things but one with a little more style. OR one of the hooded scarfs. That would just wrap your head in luxury wouldn't it?


oh yes missellen go for it, treat yourself :thumbup:


----------



## painthoss

misellen said:


> Also, I wonder how it would look in a hat. Not one of those beenie things but one with a little more style. OR one of the hooded scarfs. That would just wrap your head in luxury wouldn't it?


What a nice image, misellen! I bought 8 oz of pure alpaca at the New Jersey Fiber Festival, and am collecting patterns and ideas for small articles to make. Then I'll spend the winter spinning the alpaca and knitting the items. It really gives me a lot to look forward to, instead of seasonal depression.


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> oh yes missellen go for it, treat yourself :thumbup:


You talked me into it! Ice yarn has cashmere yarn at good prices. I think I will check them out.


----------



## Glenlady

painthoss said:


> What a nice image, misellen! I bought 8 oz of pure alpaca at the New Jersey Fiber Festival, and am collecting patterns and ideas for small articles to make. Then I'll spend the winter spinning the alpaca and knitting the items. It really gives me a lot to look forward to, instead of seasonal depression.


You are so going to enjoy yourself painthoss :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> What a nice image, misellen! I bought 8 oz of pure alpaca at the New Jersey Fiber Festival, and am collecting patterns and ideas for small articles to make. Then I'll spend the winter spinning the alpaca and knitting the items. It really gives me a lot to look forward to, instead of seasonal depression.


You'll have to let us know what you make and post pictures.


----------



## painthoss

Glenlady said:


> oh yes missellen go for it, treat yourself :thumbup:


You definitely should, go for it.


----------



## painthoss

misellen said:


> You talked me into it! Ice yarn has cashmere yarn at good prices. I think I will check them out.


Good for you!! Keep us in the loop as you choose your yarn and your project.


----------



## painthoss

Thank you both, misellen and Glenlady. There was a cowl somebody posted a couple weeks ago, I'll see if I can show you the pattern.

Here's the link

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/irish-mesh-cowl


----------



## HandyFamily

pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


%50 for 130m thread?
It must be Pt...


----------



## Lostie

painthoss said:


> Thank you both, misellen and Glenlady. There was a cowl somebody posted a couple weeks ago, I'll see if I can show you the pattern.
> 
> Here's the link
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/irish-mesh-cowl


that's a pretty pattern. Thank you


----------



## painthoss

Lostie said:


> that's a pretty pattern. Thank you


Isn't it? I hope the alpaca will show enough stitch definition.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Lkholcomb said:


> Oh my, if I were a stalker or obsessive I must be quite inexperienced ..


Well, I do declare! No you jumped right in at the deep end of the pool and it's clear to anyone with two brain cells to rub together what game you're playing.

The doe-eyed batting eyelash feigned innocence with a breathless Scarlett O'Hara voice doesn't fool as many people as you think it does.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

misellen said:


> We seem to have a number of frustrated authors on this thread. I just cannot decide if they want to write serious magazine articles or not-so-serious fiction short stories.


I agree, Lkholcomb's posts have been quite excessive.

What we really seem to have though is some frustrated grifters who thought that their claims of "charity" to the needy was being bought hook, line and sinker, and then the inevitable freak out when their true motivations were revealed as thoughtless and insincere.


----------



## BluesChanteuse

Wow. It's amazing, many of those people who'd been whining about how they can't afford to spend an extra 50 cents a skein for superwash yarn are now going hog wild buying cashmere at good prices!

Good for you! Seems like y'all are starting to catch on.

You're welcome.


----------



## Lostie

BluesChanteuse said:


> Wow. It's amazing, many of those people who'd been whining about how they can't afford to spend an extra 50 cents a skein for superwash yarn are now going hog wild buying cashmere at good prices!
> 
> Good for you! Seems like y'all are starting to catch on.
> 
> You're welcome.


many?


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> many?


how many?


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> how many?


Many many.

If you consider one to be many, which just might be the case.


----------



## Glenlady

Catch on to what?


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> Catch on to what?


Don't worry about it Glenlady, Many people don't really care if they make any sense, as long as they can keep talking. They can't help themselves.


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> Don't worry about it Glenlady, Many people don't really care if they make any sense, as long as they can keep talking. They can't help themselves.


thankyou missellen,I can sleep easy now :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

misellen said:


> Many many.
> 
> If you consider one to be many, which just might be the case.


Many? How many what? Skeins to make a sweater with high priced yarn? I make my own alpaca yarn for my "luxury" items (and other items too), and my skeins can vary in size, lol. So I really just go, "well that looks like more than enough" (and it usually is because I overestimate, lol). And then the rest I use for gifts, charity, ect. Just whatever.

So no idea how many ordinary skeins.

I heard the wind a little bit ago, anybody else, or was it just me?


----------



## vjh1530

misellen said:


> I had a friend who was allergic to cats (severe asthma) but she found she was not bothered by the black and whites (tuxedo cats). One of them adopted her and she ended up with the cat sleeping on the bed with her and no problems. But if she got around any other type of cat she would have an asthma attack.


Really?! I'll have to look into that, thanks! I wonder why?


----------



## vjh1530

Lostie said:


> I love cats too, but am allergic to them - they make my eyes look like fried eggs. But not the black and white ones ....
> I have a cousin who gets terrible asthma with dogs - but not poodles. Strange, isn't it ?


I know that poodles have hair, not fur, so that is why we had one as a kid. I have Morkies now for the same reason.


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> Many? How many what? Skeins to make a sweater with high priced yarn? I make my own alpaca yarn for my "luxury" items (and other items too), and my skeins can vary in size, lol. So I really just go, "well that looks like more than enough" (and it usually is because I overestimate, lol). And then the rest I use for gifts, charity, ect. Just whatever.
> 
> So no idea how many ordinary skeins.
> 
> I heard the wind a little bit ago, anybody else, or was it just me?


No, I think I heard it kick up a bit. Expected to get worse, and then go away entirely.

A college friend of mine reported the weather forecast as "Shattered scours, followed by roaring pain." I told him about my substituting "Nudist buns" for "Buddhist nuns" a while ago, and he nearly gusted a butt.

Does the alpaca need a particular spinning technique, LKH? As I mentioned earlier, I bought a half a pound of beastie to spin.

This thread is very informative.


----------



## misellen

Lkholcomb said:


> Many? How many what? Skeins to make a sweater with high priced yarn? I make my own alpaca yarn for my "luxury" items (and other items too), and my skeins can vary in size, lol. So I really just go, "well that looks like more than enough" (and it usually is because I overestimate, lol). And then the rest I use for gifts, charity, ect. Just whatever.
> 
> So no idea how many ordinary skeins.
> 
> I heard the wind a little bit ago, anybody else, or was it just me?


I heard that too. I don't want to embarrass anyone but there was a rather strong odor that came with it.


----------



## misellen

vjh1530 said:


> Really?! I'll have to look into that, thanks! I wonder why?


I don't know but I heard of another case the same way and with the same type of cat - the black and white "tuxedo" cats. Maybe their dander is different from other cats?


----------



## painthoss

vjh1530 said:


> I know that poodles have hair, not fur, so that is why we had one as a kid. I have Morkies now for the same reason.


I've read that too, that their coat is different from other dog breeds and that makes them a good candidate for allergic people.

OK, I give, what's a Morkie? I bet it's cute as the dickens, whatever it is.


----------



## Mary Su 2

I don't know what a Morkie is, but my guess would be a cross between a Yorkie and a Maltese. Am I close?? 
Some people are just allergic no matter what. I have a little poodle, and my niece is allergic to her, too. Maybe if I bathed the dog and vacuumed all the upholstery before she came over it might help. I have heard that for people with cat allergies one solution is to get a kitten and get it used to having a bath. If you bathe them weekly, it's supposed to cut down on the dander enough that it isn't a problem for many with cat allergies. I don't know how much truth there is to that, besides, how many people are brave enough to bathe a cat??? Especially, weekly??


----------



## painthoss

Mary Su 2 said:


> I don't know what a Morkie is, but my guess would be a cross between a Yorkie and a Maltese. Am I close??
> Some people are just allergic no matter what. I have a little poodle, and my niece is allergic to her, too. Maybe if I bathed the dog and vacuumed all the upholstery before she came over it might help. I have heard that for people with cat allergies one solution is to get a kitten and get it used to having a bath. If you bathe them weekly, it's supposed to cut down on the dander enough that it isn't a problem for many with cat allergies. I don't know how much truth there is to that, besides, how many people are brave enough to bathe a cat??? Especially, weekly??


I bet you're right, Maltese and Yorkie, and killer cute. Thanks, Mary Su 2.

My cat will let me bathe her with a pad of paper towel or terrycloth dampened with water. She'll let me go over her whole body, but it doesn't do anything for her, it actually is bad for her. She always gets mats and knots in her long coat after I do that, so I stopped. Cat spit is what keeps her in good shape.

I am so grateful I am not allergic to animals, because I do love them. It's always good news when some allergic person reports they've found an animal that doesn't trigger them.


----------



## Knittingrox

For some interest for all involved

hopefully this is click-able if not can copy and paste

http://www.mvstylenaturals.com/natural-fabric.php

Ran across the original post this evening......


----------



## Lkholcomb

painthoss said:


> No, I think I heard it kick up a bit. Expected to get worse, and then go away entirely.
> 
> A college friend of mine reported the weather forecast as "Shattered scours, followed by roaring pain." I told him about my substituting "Nudist buns" for "Buddhist nuns" a while ago, and he nearly gusted a butt.
> 
> Does the alpaca need a particular spinning technique, LKH? As I mentioned earlier, I bought a half a pound of beastie to spin.
> 
> This thread is very informative.


I was taught the same way to spin as people do with wool. I haven't spun sheep's wool though. But I use a hand spindle, which makes it portable. I have a spinning wheel, but I don't think it's very usable, it's an antique too. I know there is someone around here who restores them, but every time I think we can spring for the money for it something happens, lol. But my hand spindle works lovely.

You can find info on YouTube about doing it. I learned by YouTube and Internet,lol. I talk myself how to knit from a book when I was 15. Having videos is so much easier because you can actually see it!

Good luck with your half a beast  you may end up like me and buying more, lol.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Mary Su 2 said:


> I don't know what a Morkie is, but my guess would be a cross between a Yorkie and a Maltese. Am I close??
> Some people are just allergic no matter what. I have a little poodle, and my niece is allergic to her, too. Maybe if I bathed the dog and vacuumed all the upholstery before she came over it might help. I have heard that for people with cat allergies one solution is to get a kitten and get it used to having a bath. If you bathe them weekly, it's supposed to cut down on the dander enough that it isn't a problem for many with cat allergies. I don't know how much truth there is to that, besides, how many people are brave enough to bathe a cat??? Especially, weekly??


We had to bathe the cats twice when they had flees (we had an infestation from hell, had to removed everything cloth!). First time my husband got hit and ended up with cellulitis. Second time we put the cats in those collars (they couldn't turn to bite us) and it took three people. We would lather one up, stick it in the bathroom with the door closed, then grab another and lather it up, switch with the one that had been setting in the bathroom (it needed to set for the fleas), and then rinse that one and dry it. It took 2 to put it in the sink, one grabbing its front legs, one grabbing the back, lol. We had to do that with 5 cats.

Then they hated us, and got mad when we laughed at their funny wet hair look (sometimes you just can't help it!). No way would I want to do it every week!!!!


----------



## Mary Su 2

Lkholcomb said:


> We had to bathe the cats twice when they had flees (we had an infestation from hell, had to removed everything cloth!). First time my husband got hit and ended up with cellulitis. Second time we put the cats in those collars (they couldn't turn to bite us) and it took three people. We would lather one up, stick it in the bathroom with the door closed, then grab another and lather it up, switch with the one that had been setting in the bathroom (it needed to set for the fleas), and then rinse that one and dry it. It took 2 to put it in the sink, one grabbing its front legs, one grabbing the back, lol. We had to do that with 5 cats.
> 
> Then they hated us, and got mad when we laughed at their funny wet hair look (sometimes you just can't help it!). No way would I want to do it every week!!!!


Sounds like you had a heck of a time!! An experience like that once in a lifetime is enough!! I'm sure it's funny looking back, but wasn't at the time!! But I did hear that if you started bathing a kitten when they were young enough, they could get used to it. Personally, I just prefer the personalities of dogs. I love cats! If I go to someone's house and they have a cat, the cat is always on my lap! But I just prefer to live with dogs.


----------



## Lkholcomb

Mary Su 2 said:


> Sounds like you had a heck of a time!! An experience like that once in a lifetime is enough!! I'm sure it's funny looking back, but wasn't at the time!! But I did hear that if you started bathing a kitten when they were young enough, they could get used to it. Personally, I just prefer the personalities of dogs. I love cats! If I go to someone's house and they have a cat, the cat is always on my lap! But I just prefer to live with dogs.


We have a dog too. A yellow lab. They are easier to bathe, but boy do you get soaked! My husband did it a while ago and I sat a good distance away laugh, lol.


----------



## Glenlady

We're getting cold harsh winds creeping in,the dark clouds rolled away but it looks quite stormy again and they're back blowing and whining round the hills, where has the sunshine gone, it's cold  The only good thing is that my cat snuggles up to me and keeps me warm :thumbup:


----------



## suzy-kate

You lot talking about cats and dogs, now all the pop up ads are for flea powder, lol.


----------



## Lostie

suzy-kate said:


> You lot talking about cats and dogs, now all the pop up ads are for flea powder, lol.


lol, I never turn the pop ups on KP off because they follow our conversations and make me laugh.

I have now worked out the mystery of my non-allergy to my mum's black and white cat. From a kitten, and without encouragement, it would get in the bath with us and hang around the kitchen sink. Once it got knocked down a hill by a feral cat, and came in covered in sheep and seagull poo. He went straight to the sink and sat there glaring at us to hurry up and give him a soak ...


----------



## suzy-kate

We had cats when I was growing up, one used to love to jump into the bath and slide up and down, till the day he jumped in and it was still full of water, he never did it again.


----------



## Lostie

suzy-kate said:


> We had cats when I was growing up, one used to love to jump into the bath and slide up and down, till the day he jumped in and it was still full of water, he never did it again.


lol, I realise my cat was one in a million. If only my dog was ......


----------



## misellen

Lkholcomb said:


> We had to bathe the cats twice when they had flees (we had an infestation from hell, had to removed everything cloth!). First time my husband got hit and ended up with cellulitis. Second time we put the cats in those collars (they couldn't turn to bite us) and it took three people. We would lather one up, stick it in the bathroom with the door closed, then grab another and lather it up, switch with the one that had been setting in the bathroom (it needed to set for the fleas), and then rinse that one and dry it. It took 2 to put it in the sink, one grabbing its front legs, one grabbing the back, lol. We had to do that with 5 cats.
> 
> Then they hated us, and got mad when we laughed at their funny wet hair look (sometimes you just can't help it!). No way would I want to do it every week!!!!


If this problem arises again, check this out for a solution. It works.

http://www.amazon.com/Queen-City-Animals-Nitenpyram-Flavored/dp/B008NXB32A/ref=pd_bxgy_petsupplies_text_y


----------



## vjh1530

painthoss said:


> I've read that too, that their coat is different from other dog breeds and that makes them a good candidate for allergic people.
> 
> OK, I give, what's a Morkie? I bet it's cute as the dickens, whatever it is.


It's half Yorkie, half Maltese. Cute, only gets to around 10 lbs, not too much hair, don't shed, love to be cuddled. Except since they are a terrier they love to yap at everything that invades their territory. We have big grasshoppers here and I saw the dogs go nuts chasing one like it was a bird, so funny! I have two - one is a real lap dog,bouncy, happy-go-lucky, loves to take a walk so she can sniff EVERYTHING!! The other one unfortunately has Leggs-Perth-Calf disease in her hip (the name of the doctors who discovered it, not the parts of the body) which is a hereditary Yorkie trait. And she has an anxious personality, probably partly from being careful of her hip, part is just her. She was much more reserved and wary of others since she was a little pup, before she developed the disease. She is on Prozac now and doing much better. She gets it in cheese, which she loves, so if I forget to give her her medication she spins in circles at my feet until I remember.

They are both characters and I love them dearly!


----------



## vjh1530

Mary Su 2 said:


> I don't know what a Morkie is, but my guess would be a cross between a Yorkie and a Maltese. Am I close??
> Some people are just allergic no matter what. I have a little poodle, and my niece is allergic to her, too. Maybe if I bathed the dog and vacuumed all the upholstery before she came over it might help. I have heard that for people with cat allergies one solution is to get a kitten and get it used to having a bath. If you bathe them weekly, it's supposed to cut down on the dander enough that it isn't a problem for many with cat allergies. I don't know how much truth there is to that, besides, how many people are brave enough to bathe a cat??? Especially, weekly??


You are correct!

My DGDs got a lovely kitten they loved, but within a month they were breaking out in hives from it. Cats are considered the animal most people are allergic to, I read. They were heartbroken when they had to take it back to the shelter. I will have to investigate the black and white cat allergy thing. Thanks for the info.


----------



## vjh1530

Lkholcomb said:


> We had to bathe the cats twice when they had flees (we had an infestation from hell, had to removed everything cloth!). First time my husband got hit and ended up with cellulitis. Second time we put the cats in those collars (they couldn't turn to bite us) and it took three people. We would lather one up, stick it in the bathroom with the door closed, then grab another and lather it up, switch with the one that had been setting in the bathroom (it needed to set for the fleas), and then rinse that one and dry it. It took 2 to put it in the sink, one grabbing its front legs, one grabbing the back, lol. We had to do that with 5 cats.
> 
> Then they hated us, and got mad when we laughed at their funny wet hair look (sometimes you just can't help it!). No way would I want to do it every week!!!!


Wow, that sounds like fun - not! Sure is a lot easier to wash dogs, at least little ones. I used to have a 45 lb Chinese Shar Pei. She hated baths, but they are so oily and have so many skin issues with the folds, so they need to be bathed often. When I would try to carry her into the bathroom to put her in the tub she would extend her legs and her nails so she could grab the molding on the door frame so I couldn't get into the bathroom. She looked like those Garfield dolls people used to put on their car windows, lol! I would have to turn around and back us into the room. Then getting into the tub was a trip because she would start pedaling her feet which resulted in her rolling around when I put her down. But once she got wet and soaped and I started rubbing her to wash her, she was in heaven. Then she didn't want to get out, lol! Once I finally was able to lift her out of the tub, as soon as I sat her down she would shake off the 50 gallons of water on her coat. What a mess it would make - I would have to wash down everything in the bathroom. Shar Peis can be wonderful dogs if you can get a gentle one, but they are a lot of work and medical bills!


----------



## vjh1530

Lostie said:


> lol, I never turn the pop ups on KP off because they follow our conversations and make me laugh.
> 
> I have now worked out the mystery of my non-allergy to my mum's black and white cat. From a kitten, and without encouragement, it would get in the bath with us and hang around the kitchen sink. Once it got knocked down a hill by a feral cat, and came in covered in sheep and seagull poo. He went straight to the sink and sat there glaring at us to hurry up and give him a soak ...


I never had cats, but that is very unusual, right?


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> I was taught the same way to spin as people do with wool. I haven't spun sheep's wool though. But I use a hand spindle, which makes it portable. I have a spinning wheel, but I don't think it's very usable, it's an antique too. I know there is someone around here who restores them, but every time I think we can spring for the money for it something happens, lol. But my hand spindle works lovely.
> 
> You can find info on YouTube about doing it. I learned by YouTube and Internet,lol. I talk myself how to knit from a book when I was 15. Having videos is so much easier because you can actually see it!
> 
> Good luck with your half a beast  you may end up like me and buying more, lol.


Thanks for the information, I will give my Pack 'O Paca a try with my new Lendrum.


----------



## painthoss

Lkholcomb said:


> We had to bathe the cats twice when they had flees (we had an infestation from hell, had to removed everything cloth!). First time my husband got hit and ended up with cellulitis. Second time we put the cats in those collars (they couldn't turn to bite us) and it took three people. We would lather one up, stick it in the bathroom with the door closed, then grab another and lather it up, switch with the one that had been setting in the bathroom (it needed to set for the fleas), and then rinse that one and dry it. It took 2 to put it in the sink, one grabbing its front legs, one grabbing the back, lol. We had to do that with 5 cats.
> 
> Then they hated us, and got mad when we laughed at their funny wet hair look (sometimes you just can't help it!). No way would I want to do it every week!!!!


Oh my. That does sound like a process. You're lucky you ended up with all your fingers and eyeballs.


----------



## painthoss

I'm enjoying catching up on everyone's animal tales! Thanks for sharing them. 

Happy Thanksgiving to every one of you, and your 4-leggeds too.


----------



## Glenlady

vjh1530 said:


> I never had cats, but that is very unusual, right?


I think some cats like water despite the myth that says they don't , mine gets on the laundry basket and sits by the wash basin in the bathroom waiting for me to turn the tap on, then dabbles his front paws in it.


----------



## misellen

Mine will walk past his bowl of clean water and go to a bucket of water. He will stand with his front paws on the edge and dip his paw in the water and then lick it off his foot.


----------



## Lostie

Glenlady said:


> I think some cats like water despite the myth that says they don't , mine gets on the laundry basket and sits by the wash basin in the bathroom waiting for me to turn the tap on, then dabbles his front paws in it.


my dog hates water, but since I've given in and let me in bed with him, he does put up with a paw wash and tooth cean before bedtime

:thumbup:


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> my dog hates water, but since I've given in and let me in bed with him, he does put up with a paw wash and tooth cean before bedtime
> 
> :thumbup:


LOL gud ole bloo :thumbup:


----------



## Dsynr

Sometimes, I think they overprice yarn just to force us to BUY that overpriced, mediocre junk made in factories with underage, underpaid, and overworked "employees".

How much can it cost to raise an animal that eats GRASS that God provides for free?


----------



## Lostie

By law, here, if your dog goes into a field and "worries" the sheep, the farmer can shoot it on the spot. I love dogs, and always keep them on a lead anywhere near sheep. I would, of course, be heartbroken if my dog were shot - but not be angry, because that is the farmer's livelihood


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> By law, here, if your dog goes into a field and "worries" the sheep, the farmer can shoot it on the spot. I love dogs, and always keep them on a lead anywhere near sheep. I would, of course, be heartbroken if my dog were shot - but not be angry, because that is the farmer's livelihood


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

Lostie said:


> By law, here, if your dog goes into a field and "worries" the sheep, the farmer can shoot it on the spot. I love dogs, and always keep them on a lead anywhere near sheep. I would, of course, be heartbroken if my dog were shot - but not be angry, because that is the farmer's livelihood


What exactly is "worries" a sheep? I have heard that before but never asked. Is it just getting them riled up or making them run crazy?


----------



## Lostie

Lkholcomb said:


> What exactly is "worries" a sheep? I have heard that before but never asked. Is it just getting them riled up or making them run crazy?


it's just the general word for a dog chasing them, scaring them, maybe attacking lambs or causing an early labour.


----------



## CaroleD53

Lkholcomb said:


> What exactly is "worries" a sheep? I have heard that before but never asked. Is it just getting them riled up or making them run crazy?


Yes, annoys it.


----------



## Glenlady

Lkholcomb said:


> What exactly is "worries" a sheep? I have heard that before but never asked. Is it just getting them riled up or making them run crazy?


Basically it's chasing the sheep and worrying-- them poor things do not know where to run for safety, and if there are pregnant ewes it can make them abort :thumbdown:


----------



## Loniegal

Lostie said:


> By law, here, if your dog goes into a field and "worries" the sheep, the farmer can shoot it on the spot. I love dogs, and always keep them on a lead anywhere near sheep. I would, of course, be heartbroken if my dog were shot - but not be angry, because that is the farmer's livelihood


Everyone who owns a dog must know about that law. So if they let the dog run loose, he/she has only him/herself to blame. And I feel sorry for a dog that gets an owner like that because the dog ultimately pays the price.


----------



## Glenlady

Loniegal said:


> Everyone who owns a dog must know about that law. So if they let the dog run loose, he/she has only him/herself to blame. And I feel sorry for a dog that gets an owner like that because the dog ultimately pays the price.


Very true :thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

Well thank you all for the explanation. Now I know what worries a sheep is. Now I can't wait to use it in a conversation, lol.


----------



## suzy-kate

Lkholcomb said:


> Well thank you all for the explanation. Now I know what worries a sheep is. Now I can't wait to use it in a conversation, lol.


I'm sure you'll work it in fine, just don't expect everyone to understand what you're talking about, or is that the idea?


----------



## Kimmielu

suzy-kate said:


> I'm sure you'll work it in fine, just don't expect everyone to understand what you're talking about, or is that the idea?


When my husband used to go on and on about things I would tell him to quit worrying me about it.


----------



## Lostie

Lkholcomb said:


> Well thank you all for the explanation. Now I know what worries a sheep is. Now I can't wait to use it in a conversation, lol.


There is a joke:
Q: How do you worry a sheep?
A: Shout "mint sauce"

Sorry


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> There is a joke:
> Q: How do you worry a sheep?
> A: Shout "mint sauce"
> 
> Sorry


hehehehehehe
:thumbup:


----------



## Lkholcomb

suzy-kate said:


> I'm sure you'll work it in fine, just don't expect everyone to understand what you're talking about, or is that the idea?


No, just for fun. Worrying the sheep just sounds cool, lol. I would definately explain what it was


----------



## Lkholcomb

Lostie said:


> There is a joke:
> Q: How do you worry a sheep?
> A: Shout "mint sauce"
> 
> Sorry


Lol!


----------



## Lkholcomb

I just told my husband he has to stop "worrying" me, lol? Then I told him what we had been discussing, lol. I can't wait to try it with the kids!


----------



## vjh1530

Loniegal said:


> Everyone who owns a dog must know about that law. So if they let the dog run loose, he/she has only him/herself to blame. And I feel sorry for a dog that gets an owner like that because the dog ultimately pays the price.


So true!


----------



## pammash

Lkholcomb said:


> Lol!


 :thumbup:


----------



## Irene P

Lkholcomb said:


> I laughed out loud at this!


This reminds me of the two dogs I used to have. (I'd like to think they both are in "Doggie Heaven"). Come time for their bath, my husband would run water in the sink in our garage. When they saw him coming for them, they knew - and took off! They didn't like swimming either. When they would be put in our pool, they would swim out and not come near us for the rest of the day!


----------



## vjh1530

Irene P said:


> This reminds me of the two dogs I used to have. (I'd like to think they both are in "Doggie Heaven"). Come time for their bath, my husband would run water in the sink in our garage. When they saw him coming for them, they knew - and took off! They didn't like swimming either. When they would be put in our pool, they would swim out and not come near us for the rest of the day!


So funny!!


----------



## suzy-kate

We had a dog that ran after trains, if he heard a train coming when the door was open he'd be off, trying to race it to the station, he wait till everyone got off (seeing if one of us was on it) then he'd run all the way back. Thankfully there were no roads to cross just a 500 yard footpath next to the railway line.


----------



## Glenlady

suzy-kate said:


> We had a dog that ran after trains, if he heard a train coming when the door was open he'd be off, trying to race it to the station, he wait till everyone got off (seeing if one of us was on it) then he'd run all the way back. Thankfully there were no roads to cross just a 500 yard footpath next to the railway line.


Aw bless him, I bet he was lovely


----------



## suzy-kate

Glenlady said:


> Aw bless him, I bet he was lovely


He was an Irish red setter, and was nuts, fantastic dog with kids but as soon as you got outside he just wanted to run. He was a rescue dog so full grown when we got him, first winter we had a couple of foot of snow so it was hard to run with him, DH had the great idea to wear his fishing waders so the snow didn't go down his boots, take him to the tennis courts and let him run wild in there. It was a good idea till DH got to the steps by the courts, which he fell over because he couldn't see them, the dog pulled him through the snow and DH didn't want to let go in case the dog ran off. DH came back with snow down his coat, in his waders and even in his underware, he didn't try it again.

Should say this was 30 odd years ago, DH was my boyfriend at the time and he's never wanted a dog.


----------



## Glenlady

suzy-kate said:


> He was an Irish red setter, and was nuts, fantastic dog with kids but as soon as you got outside he just wanted to run. He was a rescue dog so full grown when we got him, first winter we had a couple of foot of snow so it was hard to run with him, DH had the great idea to wear his fishing waders so the snow didn't go down his boots, take him to the tennis courts and let him run wild in there. It was a good idea till DH got to the steps by the courts, which he fell over because he couldn't see them, the dog pulled him through the snow and DH didn't want to let go in case the dog ran off. DH came back with snow down his coat, in his waders and even in his underware, he didn't try it again.
> 
> Should say this was 30 odd years ago, DH was my boyfriend at the time and he's never wanted a dog.


My friend had a red setter, crazy as coot, I laughed at the wader story, it's no wonder Dh never wanted a dog since LOL


----------



## Lostie

Glenlady said:


> Aw bless him, I bet he was lovely


I love Irish Red Setters, but they are just sooo energetic.

When I lived in the Scottish Highlands, we had a Cairn Terrier who would - on his own- get on the ferry to the Isle of Skye, have a good sniff around, mark it as his territory, then catch the ferry back.

:thumbup:


----------



## Glenlady

Lostie said:


> I love Irish Red Setters, but they are just sooo energetic.
> 
> When I lived in the Scottish Highlands, we had a Cairn Terrier who would - on his own- get on the ferry to the Isle of Skye, have a good sniff around, mark it as his territory, then catch the ferry back.
> 
> :thumbup:


 :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

Lostie said:


> I love Irish Red Setters, but they are just sooo energetic.
> 
> When I lived in the Scottish Highlands, we had a Cairn Terrier who would - on his own- get on the ferry to the Isle of Skye, have a good sniff around, mark it as his territory, then catch the ferry back.
> 
> :thumbup:


 :thumbup: LOL Its a big job keeping your territory safe.


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> :thumbup: LOL Its a big job keeping your territory safe.


LOL think ouwer territories sayfe inn da hattik :thumbup:


----------



## Glenlady

Glenlady said:


> LOL think ouwer territories sayfe inn da hattik :thumbup:


ooer wrong topic


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> ooer wrong topic


Oops. :shock:


----------



## Glenlady

misellen said:


> Oops. :shock:


LOL :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## jmewin

I was just on the Craftsy site myself. You are so right. The prices are extremely high. I'll shop at my LYS. Keep my money in this area.


----------



## vjh1530

Lostie said:


> I love Irish Red Setters, but they are just sooo energetic.
> 
> When I lived in the Scottish Highlands, we had a Cairn Terrier who would - on his own- get on the ferry to the Isle of Skye, have a good sniff around, mark it as his territory, then catch the ferry back.
> 
> :thumbup:


That is amazing! What a smart dog! He must have been quite a character.


----------



## vjh1530

jmewin said:


> I was just on the Craftsy site myself. You are so right. The prices are extremely high. I'll shop at my LYS. Keep my money in this area.


This weekend they have all classes on sale for $20. They are usually quite detailed in how they cover the topic and most instructors are good. I would stay away from the Stephanie Japel classes, though. I have taken two by her and she rambles too much about silly things too much. It gets annoying.
I have a back injury that prevents me from sitting in an in-person class, so these types of classes are great for me.


----------



## vjh1530

suzy-kate said:


> We had a dog that ran after trains, if he heard a train coming when the door was open he'd be off, trying to race it to the station, he wait till everyone got off (seeing if one of us was on it) then he'd run all the way back. Thankfully there were no roads to cross just a 500 yard footpath next to the railway line.


Another character, lol! He sounds like a cutie!


----------



## Irene P

suzy-kate said:


> We had a dog that ran after trains, if he heard a train coming when the door was open he'd be off, trying to race it to the station, he wait till everyone got off (seeing if one of us was on it) then he'd run all the way back. Thankfully there were no roads to cross just a 500 yard footpath next to the railway line.


One of the dogs we had (that I had mentioned earlier about being bathed -before she had the puppies) ran into a street after a cat and was hit by a car. Luckily, she only had a minor cut. My husband stitched her up (he grew up on a farm and knew how to do this). After this happened, our dog would go to the curb and LOOK BOTH WAYS!! (I'm not kidding - she did do this!) What's the phrase - "Experience is the best teacher".


----------



## Lkholcomb

Irene P said:


> One of the dogs we had (that I had mentioned earlier about being bathed -before she had the puppies) ran into a street after a cat and was hit by a car. Luckily, she only had a minor cut. My husband stitched her up (he grew up on a farm and knew how to do this). After this happened, our dog would go to the curb and LOOK BOTH WAYS!! (I'm not kidding - she did do this!) What's the phrase - "Experience is the best teacher".


Lol! How cute!


----------



## Lkholcomb

Have you guys heard of the places that spin cat and dog hair? The one I'm thinking of they take the dead cat's hair and spin it (I can remember exactly where it was, but it was in us). I'm not sure how I feel about that. A live animal maybe, but the thought of shearing the dead one?


----------



## peachy51

Lkholcomb said:


> Have you guys heard of the places that spin cat and dog hair? The one I'm thinking of they take the dead cat's hair and spin it (I can remember exactly where it was, but it was in us). I'm not sure how I feel about that. A live animal maybe, but the thought of shearing the dead one?


LOL ... I'm not sure it could be any more creepy than this place :shock:

http://www.lifegem.com/


----------



## Lkholcomb

peachy51 said:


> LOL ... I'm not sure it could be any more creepy than this place :shock:
> 
> http://www.lifegem.com/


I had to look. Ewwwww! I don't mind the hair of lock so much, but the ASHES! Ewwwwwww!

I told my husband and we were having a bit of morbid fun. Say you lost it what do you say? "I lost my husband....... Again".

What if you dropped the ring of your husband down the sink? "I flushed my husband away!


----------



## Lostie

Lkholcomb said:


> I had to look. Ewwwww! I don't mind the hair of lock so much, but the ASHES! Ewwwwwww!
> 
> I told my husband and we were having a bit of morbid fun. Say you lost it what do you say? "I lost my husband....... Again".
> 
> What if you dropped the ring of your husband down the sink? "I flushed my husband away!


I got rid of 180 lbs of ugly unwanted fat when he divorced me .....


----------



## suzy-kate

Lostie said:


> I got rid of 180 lbs of ugly unwanted fat when he divorced me .....


LOL, youngest DD says of one ex boyfriend he was solid bone from his forehead to the back and eldest DD uses an expression in welsh that translates as a waste of a certain part of a man's anatomy.


----------



## suzy-kate

Lkholcomb said:


> I had to look. Ewwwww! I don't mind the hair of lock so much, but the ASHES! Ewwwwwww!
> 
> I told my husband and we were having a bit of morbid fun. Say you lost it what do you say? "I lost my husband....... Again".
> 
> What if you dropped the ring of your husband down the sink? "I flushed my husband away!


Somewhere I've got a victorian mourning brooch with hair in it, not something I'd ever wear but it belonged to my Great Great Grandmother.


----------



## Lkholcomb

suzy-kate said:


> Somewhere I've got a victorian mourning brooch with hair in it, not something I'd ever wear but it belonged to my Great Great Grandmother.


We have hair, but not in a jewelry piece. I did always think those wreaths they made with the hair of those passed was kinda cool. Not that I'd want to hang over my bed or anything, lol.


----------



## misellen

Lkholcomb said:


> Have you guys heard of the places that spin cat and dog hair? The one I'm thinking of they take the dead cat's hair and spin it (I can remember exactly where it was, but it was in us). I'm not sure how I feel about that. A live animal maybe, but the thought of shearing the dead one?


I don't think I could do that. Once the poor thing is dead, let it keep its coat.


----------



## Irene P

Lkholcomb said:


> Have you guys heard of the places that spin cat and dog hair? The one I'm thinking of they take the dead cat's hair and spin it (I can remember exactly where it was, but it was in us). I'm not sure how I feel about that. A live animal maybe, but the thought of shearing the dead one?


A while back, a woman wrote a book about knitting with dog hair. I'm sorry, but I don't remember the name of the book, but it can probably be found in google.


----------



## vjh1530

I saw one today at Barnes and Nobles about crafting with cat hair. Talk about having too much time on your hands, lol!


----------



## suzy-kate

I'd heard about using poodle hair, I suppose the hair is more like a fleece and at least the yarn is made from cut hair rather than brushings. I don't care how they treat it I'd be expecting the smell of wet dog every time you got it damp.

I suppose you could use it to make new dog coats, lol.


----------



## Condia

Lkholcomb said:


> Have you guys heard of the places that spin cat and dog hair? The one I'm thinking of they take the dead cat's hair and spin it (I can remember exactly where it was, but it was in us). I'm not sure how I feel about that. A live animal maybe, but the thought of shearing the dead one?


OMGosh, are you kidding!! I am a spinner and I spin dog and cat but they are from live pets that are shedding. The yarn is wonderful and makes a great keepsake.


----------



## Irene P

spinlouet said:


> OMGosh, are you kidding!! I am a spinner and I spin dog and cat but they are from live pets that are shedding. The yarn is wonderful and makes a great keepsake.


I have not done any spinning, but have seen it done sometimes. It would be very interesting if you would explain how long it takes you to obtain enough dog and cat hair for spinning and having enough to knit with.


----------



## Lkholcomb

spinlouet said:


> OMGosh, are you kidding!! I am a spinner and I spin dog and cat but they are from live pets that are shedding. The yarn is wonderful and makes a great keepsake.


Yes, it did give me the creeps. I'm considering trying to spin some of our dog or cat hair, as they have so much they shed. I'm interested too as to how long it takes to collect.


----------



## Knitish

Saw some in town, had the = reaction and it was patiently explained that this is so because these have different lengths of different beautiful varied yarns and colors so the effect is self-striping in awesome variations. Was explained to me, that 'they were VERY economical because you only had to buy ONE skein of yarn instead of a DOZEN!'


----------



## Sampymom

This thread is like a car wreck. I can't quit looking.  It's just surprising how petty and mean-spirited people can be to each other. After reading WAY too many posts, I'm going to bed. I love this forum, but not this thread. It makes me sad.


----------



## Sampymom

I only read the first 30 or so pages of this. Don't know what was said after that.


----------



## HandyFamily

pavasa said:


> I was just on Crafty site looking at the yarns they are offering for sale. Saw skeins in the $40, 50, and $60 range PER skein! With some having under 150 yards. Zowee! What it would cost to make a sweater! Would sure have to be for yourself, or for someone VERY, very special.


 :shock:

No, these prices are simply absurd.


----------



## amortje

kiwiannie said:


> Regardless of how well you do or don't knit, I don't think any yarn is worth that amount of money.


 :thumbup:


----------



## mmorris

There is a Knit Shop in the NC mts. close to Asheville. the lowest price for a skein is $50.00. My sil found some beautiful hand dyed yarn for a shawl. She splurged on it and is so glad that she did. $1,500.00 is expensive but it will last for years. :thumbup:


----------



## Angela W

I cannot believe that anybody anywhere would pay $40 (and more) for ANY yarn!


----------



## judbert

mmorris said:


> There is a Knit Shop in the NC mts. close to Asheville. the lowest price for a skein is $50.00. My sil found some beautiful hand dyed yarn for a shawl. She splurged on it and is so glad that she did. $1,500.00 is expensive but it will last for years. :thumbup:


Yikes! Is that $1,500.00 purchase price a typo by any chance?


----------



## Angela W

I would hope so!!! (And by the way your dog is sweet, and your cat adorable... just want to hug them both!)


----------



## misellen

judbert said:


> Yikes! Is that $1,500.00 purchase price a typo by any chance?


I hope so cause I would sure want a whole lot more than a shawl for $1,500.00.


----------



## painthoss

Me too, I'd want a good-lookin' guy in a breechclout to wrap me up in it.


misellen said:


> I hope so cause I would sure want a whole lot more than a shawl for $1,500.00.


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> Me too, I'd want a good-lookin' guy in a breechclout to wrap me up in it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Glenlady

afraid a breechclout wouldn't wrap you up in comfort young lady


----------



## painthoss

Glenlady said:


> afraid a breechclout wouldn't wrap you up in comfort young lady


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sure would like to try and find out, she said wistfully...


----------



## Glenlady

painthoss said:


> :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Sure would like to try and find out, she said wistfully...


    :thumbup:


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> afraid a breechclout wouldn't wrap you up in comfort young lady


Maybe not, but the good looking guy could LOL


----------



## GrumpyGramma

rohohappy said:


> Well, you enjoy your red heart yarn....I feel sorry you cant afford a few more $ to buy a wool blend that wont melt if your receipient gets to close to a heater, radiator or fireplace. yes acrylic will melt to the wearer if to close to heat source. I will pray for your wearers.


Cut out the sanctimonious crap please. Accidents happen and it's tragic. You really don't need to use it as an excuse to show off your holier than thou side. If it were really that dangerous acrylic yarn wouldn't come out of the dryer still looking like a knitted or crocheted item, it would be a big melted lump. Save your energy to pray for yourself. I'm sure those you feel led and called upon to pray for really don't want to put you out anyhow. We'd hate to add to your overwhelming burden.


----------



## mmorris

The total price for the yarn is $1,500. (My sil always has had wonderful taste).


----------



## mmorris

No mistake about the price! It's hand dyed yarn. The price is unbelievable, but the shawl will last for years.


----------



## GrumpyGramma

Revan said:


> You apprently don't know what I was referring to. Start at the beginning and read each comment. There was a person who talked "political rhetoric", not "plastic" yarn, and I was just stating every person has a right to say what they want when others do the same. Some people can say things and get away with it on this forum and other can not.
> 
> Yarn is not "political" to me, it is something one makes something out of.
> 
> I just don't understand why people, mainly from the US, have to put down those who knit with Red Heart SS or any other acrylic yarn. The way I see it these people have issues.


 :thumbup:

I say, knit what you want with whatever you want and don't let anyone tell you different.


----------



## GrumpyGramma

BluesChanteuse said:


> No ma'am, those are scientific facts. You are entitled to your own opinions by you're not entitled to your own "facts".
> 
> It's is simply factual that acrylic is more dangerous and not particularly warm for the very people who need warmth the most.


Cite references please.
Many of us find acrylic garments to be very warm.


----------



## Mary Su 2

I can't believe this thread has been revived after a year and a half!! BluesChanteuse and others keep saying how "dangerous" acrylic is. So can someone please explain why there aren't 'warning labels' on every single acrylic item?? There are such ridiculous warning labels on so many items to protect the manufacturers against lawsuit, such as a warning to "not iron clothes while wearing" and letting people know that a take-out coffee is "hot" because of one lady suing McDonald's after being scalded by a coffee she bought there. If any person had ever been seriously injured by 'melted acrylic' because they wore it too close to a source of heat, there would have been a lawsuit, and warning labels would be on every single acrylic item sold whether it was a ball of yarn or a finished product!! And if acrylic was as serious a threat to safety, there would have been protests to have it banned!!!


----------



## Angela W

I make many baby blankets (for my favourite animal charity to sell to help raise funds) and I use acrylic yarn... mothers really appreciate the ease of washing/drying it. If you use pure wool on baby things you probably have (or need) a full time nanny to handle all the laundry - hand washing, etc.


----------



## painthoss

Indeed, indeed!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol:



misellen said:


> Maybe not, but the good looking guy could LOL


----------



## painthoss

By the way, to new readers on this thread, Blues Chanteuse was a troll whose responses were intended to incite anger and nasty retorts rather than informative, useful discussion. If you read the thread from that perspective, you can learn a lot about human psychology and your own hot buttons, so as to recognize trolls and their strategies, and avoid being sucked in to a demoralizing, anger-making situation. 

I believe she got kicked off the forum.


----------



## Glenlady

painthoss said:


> Indeed, indeed!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Now then you two gals, listen to your auntie, take a cool shower and go get on with your knitting


----------



## painthoss

Misellen, Auntie Glen doesn't want us to have any fun!



Glenlady said:


> Now then you two gals, listen to your auntie, take a cool shower and go get on with your knitting


----------



## misellen

Glenlady said:


> Now then you two gals, listen to your auntie, take a cool shower and go get on with your knitting


kill joy


----------



## misellen

painthoss said:


> Misellen, Auntie Glen doesn't want us to have any fun!


I'm not listening to her, are you?


----------



## Angela W

Whatever anybody says (good advice from auntie or anything else) $40 plus is a RIDICULOUS price to pay for ANY yarn... even if it came with gold filigree worked into it, and was spun from the main of a magical unicorn!!! If you have $40 to spare, I'll gladly take it and give it to my fave animal sanctuary!


----------



## painthoss

Nope. Fingers in my ears and hands over my eyes. :evil: :evil: :evil:



misellen said:


> I'm not listening to her, are you?


----------



## dauntiekay

oops


----------



## books

Angela W said:


> Whatever anybody says (good advice from auntie or anything else) $40 plus is a RIDICULOUS price to pay for ANY yarn... even if it came with gold filigree worked into it, and was spun from the main of a magical unicorn!!! If you have $40 to spare, I'll gladly take it and give it to my fave animal sanctuary!


I know this is an old thread, but I agree with this post. $40 is a big chunk of money, even for yarn. (And I love yarn just like everybody else) I also love used stuff, used books, used clothes, (Hey, it's new to me) and used yarn..... love goodwill and ebay.


----------



## Karenknitstoo

I stick to the basics or watch for very deep discounts. I'm sure there are knitters who indulge in the most expensive yarns---they can justify it as being cheaper than therapy


----------



## carmenl

peachy51 said:


> I need to slap myself for responding to you again, but here it is ... did you read my post? did you comprehend what it said?
> 
> No one is arguing that acrylic burns ... duh? As does most other fiber. Because you know, most everything except metal burns and I'm sure you don't live in and use EVERYTHING metal.
> 
> The facts and documentation I asked you to provide is referring to people being injured because of wearing the acrylic yarn. Do you have any links, documentation, facts at all of any instances of this occurrence? How frequently it has happened. Have you actually researched this happening? Have you spoken to Fire Depts. about how many times they have encountered this? (This one I have done and so far, nada).
> 
> So back up your scare tactics with actual facts and statistics showing injuries received.


Why do you think it is not recommended to wear synthetics when you fly? Some one must know some thing about the danger don't you think?


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## painthoss

I did warn them. :?

Now, getting back to that there breechclout.... 

Do you suppose it's pronounced as spelled, or like riding breeches which is correctly pronounced britches? In this neck of the woods, anyway.


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## dauntiekay

Angela W said:


> Whatever anybody says (good advice from auntie or anything else) $40 plus is a RIDICULOUS price to pay for ANY yarn... even if it came with gold filigree worked into it, and was spun from the main of a magical unicorn!!! If you have $40 to spare, I'll gladly take it and give it to my fave animal sanctuary!


Hey, hey, wait a minute, if it is all pure gold at that price I might consider buying it and melting it down and selling it--I would not be knitting with it for sure.


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## dauntiekay

painthoss said:


> By the way, to new readers on this thread, Blues Chanteuse was a troll whose responses were intended to incite anger and nasty retorts rather than informative, useful discussion. If you read the thread from that perspective, you can learn a lot about human psychology and your own hot buttons, so as to recognize trolls and their strategies, and avoid being sucked in to a demoralizing, anger-making situation.
> I believe she got kicked off the forum.


Mary Su put it best:

"Ladysjk, we can sing now! Can I suggest we start with the song from the Wizard of Oz?? Ding Dong the witch is dead." Mary Su 2 P.47


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## misellen

painthoss said:


> I did warn them. :?
> 
> Now, getting back to that there breechclout....
> 
> Do you suppose it's pronounced as spelled, or like riding breeches which is correctly pronounced britches? In this neck of the woods, anyway.


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## Glenlady

misellen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx-G25UlDlE


Oh, so we don't sound the 'T' so lets call it a loin cloth shall we, as long as it covers his bits, it doesn't matter
---- , DOES IT ?


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## Angela W

I'd be right there melting it with you!!!


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## Glenlady

Angela W said:


> I'd be right there melting it with you!!!


Think you'll have to fight misellen to be first in the queue


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## Angela W

When it comes to gold (or any other precious metal, or blue white diamons/sapphires/emerals/rubies) I'll fight anyone for my place in the queue!!


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## Glenlady

Angela W said:


> When it comes to gold (or any other precious metal, or blue white diamons/sapphires/emerals/rubies) I'll fight anyone for my place in the queue!!


LOLOL but I thought we were talking about a guy in a breechclout, never mind diamonds etc. etc. lol


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## Glenlady

Glenlady said:


> LOLOL but I thought we were talking about a guy in a breechclout, never mind diamonds etc. etc. lol


and what that has to do with the price of yarn is beyond me


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## Angela W

Oh well, I wouldn't discount a handsome guy...too.... but I must've been replying to what I thought was someone else's comment


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## misellen

LOLOL I really like the turn this thread has taken LOLOL


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## Glenlady

Angela W said:


> Oh well, I wouldn't discount a handsome guy...too.... but I must've been replying to what I thought was someone else's comment


Angela, you'll have to take your turn, this thread about price of yarn has reaally got so funny, come and join us


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## jmewin

Ridiculous isn't it. There is such high quality yarn available for reasonable prices.


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## Angela W

misellen said:


> LOLOL I really like the turn this thread has taken LOLOL


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## dauntiekay

Angela W said:


> Oh well, I wouldn't discount a handsome guy...too.... but I must've been replying to what I thought was someone else's comment


Handsome or not if he doesn't do anything and is lazy I'll take the gold and all the other valuables included and I will run with it any day. lol


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## Angela W

That's probably a better bet anyhow, any day!!!!!!!!!!


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## painthoss

Hang a few diamonds and such where they are most effective....


Glenlady said:


> LOLOL but I thought we were talking about a guy in a breechclout, never mind diamonds etc. etc. lol


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## painthoss

He's not lazy, he wraps you up in the shawl, or does whatever it takes to make sure you are nice and warm. 'andsome is as 'andsome does, as Eliza Doolittle always used to say. 


dauntiekay said:


> Handsome or not if he doesn't do anything and is lazy I'll take the gold and all the other valuables included and I will run with it any day. lol


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## painthoss

Wonderful, isn't it, how even bad things can turn to good? Don't you love KP? 


misellen said:


> LOLOL I really like the turn this thread has taken LOLOL


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## dauntiekay

painthoss said:


> He's not lazy, he wraps you up in the shawl, or does whatever it takes to make sure you are nice and warm. 'andsome is as 'andsome does, as Eliza Doolittle always used to say.


This may take some time--probably why I am not married it took too long.lol


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## painthoss

Loin cloth, breechclout, fig leaf, whatever works. they do say that overheating of the bits can be dangerous...


Glenlady said:


> Oh, so we don't sound the 'T' so lets call it a loin cloth shall we, as long as it covers his bits, it doesn't matter
> ---- , DOES IT ?


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## Loistec

.


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## barbarafletcher

Yes I agree it is getting expensive..

Remember the days when it was cheaper to knit than buy knitted goods ..
Now it's to be a designer piece ......

Also, when camping and caravanning was a cheaper option for going on holiday! Now you need a larger sized motor engine to pull the caravan, also the cost of caravan ..on top if all the equipment...it's around £50,000 car and outfit on the cheaper side ( new option)..

And the fees on camping sites are in the region of £30+ for just two people using their own outfits....!


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## arwenian

I love yarn re-sales. I get the high quality at a price I can afford. And it never goes bad as long as it is reasonably protected.


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## Jessica-Jean

arwenian said:


> I love yarn re-sales. I get the high quality at a price I can afford. And it never goes bad as long as it is reasonably protected.


I like that term - yarn re-sales! Unfortunately, what you say is all too true. That's how/why my stash has grown so overwhelming!


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## HandyFamily

O, wow.
I think the most I had payed (uf, misspelled?..) is like $16 - !18, something like that (w/o shipping) - but that would be for stuff like mulberry silk, sugar cone (and mostly because the yarn is very hard to find and I'm out of a specific color for a tunic that is nearly ready), yak... raccoon... mink ... dogs of different breeds - I mean, really specific fibers that I wanted to touch and that are really hard to harvest and the animals only shred so much, so... they are expensive - objectively. I can't imagine what would be $60 or so, unless thee were silver or gold threads in it...  Or it was hand-made for charity or something.


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## NatalieF26

[No message]


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