# Funding for Obama Care?



## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

the bill says this "3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income of high-income taxpayers which could apply to proceeds from the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income, depending on your individual circumstances and any capital gains tax exclusions.

It says that it could apply but not definitely will apply. If it did apply it would not bother me a bit. I know that the health care bill funding has to come from somewhere. If a person sells a house for $400,000.00 and has to pay $13,200.00 in taxes, no big deal. They already pay a commission of 6% to realtors (which is $24,000.00). A seller can negotiate a lower commission so that part of that tax could be offset. In the end out of the $400,000. the seller still takes home a big chunk of change. 

The baby boomers are the ones that need the health care the most, they are the ones with the homes, they are the ones that the funding should fall on their shoulders. Everyone cannot get a free ride!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Actually, I have yet to meet ANY realtor that will negotiate commission. The commission is "split" with the listing broker getting the largest piece of the pie, the selling agent getting a cut and the agent of t he buyer getting a cut. Since brokers cannot call the shots on everyone's piece of the pie, they don't negotiate on this. 

Capital gains on real estate sales are NOT taxed if the gain is used to purchase another primary residence home. In the case of a home sale due to an "estate" (death of the owner where there are heirs) unless the amount of each heir exceeds the threshold of inheritance, no taxes are paid on the "gain".

So I wouldn't assume that much is actually going to come from real estate sales to fund Obamacare. Most homes lost value in the past 5 - 8 years. Many a seller had to bring money to the closing because what was owed on the home was more than the value/selling price. Those people walked away with nothing.

I bought my condo about 5.5 years ago. It was 18 - 22 months old. The original buyer paid X for it then added 10k because they wanted an end unit and added another 30k in upgrades. Sadly they mortgaged nearly all of the total price. They jumped on my offer that was 10k less than the original asking price and another 40k less the end unit price bump and upgrades...they lost 50k on the deal.

My son and his wife just purchased a home in a fairly "high rent" area. The sellers lost nearly 200k due to declining values.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

At this point in our life's we should all remember that is time for the ones without health insurance to start paying. Our medical bills, emergency room, and medications are so expensive because we are the ones pay extra to cover for those who refuses to have insurance. Just like car insurance, part of our money goes to cover for uninsured drivers. All my life I work and pay for health insurance, I do think is time we tell congress to do what's right, each of us have pay to have health insurance, and I should not have to pay so other people can have medical treatment.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

I have purchased about 25 properties in my lifetime, and yes I have negotiated real estate commissions, some time up, some time down. I have even used a sell yourself agent and paid flat fee (way bellow 6% commission. If you talk to knowledgeable RE agents or brokers, they will tell you that this is not unheard of.


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

There's a lot of confusion about this funding issue. One of my FB friends passed along this Snopes.com page that helps clarify some of the issues.

The amount charged on the sale of a home will not be based on the price of the house, but on the income of the people selling the house -- a couple with a joint income of $250K is the bottom line.

Here's the link, which starts out with some of the mis-information that's going around, then states the actual provisions of the legislation.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Tell ya what send this to Obama and others in DC..ask how much more they can get when this is gone. Cause thats all I have left if even.


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## take2needles (Sep 15, 2011)

cathy47 said:


> Tell ya what send this to Obama and others in DC..ask how much more they can get when this is gone. Cause thats all I have left if even.


Amen, sister!


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## cathy47 (Jun 6, 2011)

Anymore taxes on taxes on taxes..I am sending in a bag each of lemons and turnips and tell them if they can get money from them they are welcome to it. I am so tired of thinking I am going to make it and those idiots reach back in and take more and more.. I am tired also of these clowns saying how they grew up poor or some hit a nerve with the poor saying and to watch how they spend and throw away money like its nothing. Their words don't match the actions.


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## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

I would not have a problem with this home sale law IF the government will use the money specifically for health care. The problem is that the proceeds go to other bills that the government has. They "borrow" the funds and when it's time to pay for the original bill the money is gone, hence the current state of Social Security.


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## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

The tax proposed is for second or more homes, not the first. 
I don't know many people in my age group or income bracket (we are both educators) who can afford a second home, so not too worried about this part.
There have been changes to the capital gains laws though that also help.For instance, if you sell your house and don't want to purchase another right away, you can invest it in a retirement fund and if later you change your mind there is a one time allowance, thus avoiding that "tax". My husband and I are planning to sell our large house within the next three years and retire at 60 but just aren't sure if we want to own again so our dear friend, who just happens to be an investor, showed us the options.
The Affordable Health Care Act has made it possible for both of our sons to remain on our insurance until they were established in their jobs instead of risking no coverage and no way to pay for the monthly medications. Also no insurance can turn them away because they have been on this med/pre-existing condition prior. I am willing to find ways to work out the kinks.


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## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

One other note that I find important. I teach in a poverty school district (over 70%) and many of my students are on our state "Badgercare". Their parents do earn low incomes, although I am not sure what they get is spent wisely, however, the children need care or we have long term issues that will really take us down. I have had students wait two weeks to get into a dentist to get root canal done because so few will work for Badgercare (this is primarily for children). Can you imagine their physical pain? 
I have maintained that I am lucky and while it is expensive, I will pay for my insurance; but the two groups who should be protected and insured are the children and the elderly. The first has no voice and the latter earned in their lifetime already.


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## GrannyDeb (Oct 14, 2011)

Right on 



Lori Putz said:


> One other note that I find important. I teach in a poverty school district (over 70%) and many of my students are on our state "Badgercare". Their parents do earn low incomes, although I am not sure what they get is spent wisely, however, the children need care or we have long term issues that will really take us down. I have had students wait two weeks to get into a dentist to get root canal done because so few will work for Badgercare (this is primarily for children). Can you imagine their physical pain?
> I have maintained that I am lucky and while it is expensive, I will pay for my insurance; but the two groups who should be protected and insured are the children and the elderly. The first has no voice and the latter earned in their lifetime already.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


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## annygranny (Jun 15, 2011)

think we have joined the silly club as well. taxes, taxes, and more taxes, fuel and food going through the roof, hospitals that are closing down, we are going backwards instead of forwards.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Absolutely. Our health care under Obama is going to mean we all don't live as long.


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## laurie kinnunen (Mar 15, 2011)

It will fail. The very rich always have loopholes and ways to hide their money. The burden will again fall on the middle class and we can not sustain it. It will collapse. It is not the healthy uninsured that choose not to purchase Heath insurance. It is the able bodied people who gave gotten used to using the system to get it for nothing and use the hospitals as doctor's offices.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama must go.


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## Lynnav (Feb 4, 2011)

Please remember while you are slamming Obama - the Obamacare health plan is not dissimilar to the Massachusetts health plan - and you know who devised that plan... the other guy!!!
Think hard before you vote :-0


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## westies (Jan 25, 2011)

Fellow KPers, 
I thought this was a forum to focus on our art/craft related to fiber arts. I find this discussion distressing. Do I support a particular party/candidate - YES! Will I vote- YES! Am I angry at the performance of some of our elected officals - YES! However I encourage all of us to express our perference by voting for our favorite candidate. I also think that it is imoportant to have THE ACCURATE FACTS relating to each candidate! The hate/venom/misstatements that are bombarding us at every turn do not do us or our country any good. 
Pat aka westies


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That was then. This is now. People have the right to learn and change their minds. I do all the time. Nothing is worse than Barak O.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Quote: "If a person sells a house for $400,000.00 and has to pay $13,200.00 in taxes, no big deal. "

NO BIG DEAL? This is stealing my money. Money I earned, and used all those years to pay the mortgage and maintain the house, and now the government wants to get it's "fair share." Furthermore, that money will likely come out of my grandkids' inheritance, and you call it NO BIG DEAL?!! I didn't work and save all these years so I can wind up footing the healthcare bill for some bum living under a bridge, or a 24 year old kid still living with his parents. Leave my money alone. Socialist Europe is going broke, in case you missed it, because of people who believe they are entitled to free everything. NO BIG DEAL? Maybe not to you, but it is to me.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This is all speculation of course and unless "capital gains taxes" are changed, it won't happen. The $13,200.00 in taxes would come out of one's "equity" in that $400,000.00 - unless all investments were equally taxed on growth/gain it would be very lopsided and favor the wealthy to invest in ways to avoid such taxation. That's not going to fly.

On the other hand, most bums living under bridges are suffering from mental illness. It's not a matter of laziness that has landed them there. You are already paying for completely healthy people who choose not to work and live in government subsidized housing and receive massive amounts of financial assistance...please note I am NOT talking about those who truly are unable to work. Some families have been on this type of assistance for generations! Those are the people who are costing you the most right now and have been for a very long time.

Obama care will NOT be free, how affordable it will be, remains to be seen though. Enforcing the "penalty/tax" for not purchasing it, is going to be a disaster.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Socialism takes away the desire to work and be creative. Obama will take us there. I do not believe that everyone has the right to health care. Sorry. Especially those who smoke, have poor diet habits. Why should I take care of them. What next? Everyone deserves housing? Everyone deserves food to be provided? 

Obama needs to go.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

To lukelucy, think who got us in financial trouble, with wars, (billins spent and we had to walk away owing money to China) with banks, lending money to people who could not pay the loans, etec, etc. back then I vote for the republicans and I have regretted ever since. As a politician to live one year with the exact ammonites as most of us and they will not even respond. My taxes pays for every single thing that they own. I will support a bill that helps uninsured people so when I go to emergency I don't have to take a mortgage on my house. Remember, politicians tells us what we want to hear.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama needs to go.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

If you, lukelucy, was bushwhacked as I was, loosing a very large chunck of money, on bush promises, then you would think twice, before you vote again.


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## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

Many in the early 1960 believed that Medicare was socialism and even then Gov Reagan made commercials against it. Few would tolerate its dissolving now.

For ALL who want to know the real facts and make their judgements BASED on those facts, I say the same here as I told my own two sons as they reached adulthood, and my students who ask me for answers that is not appropriate for me to give:
Go to www.politifact.org OR www.factcheck.org.

These non-partisan sites evaluate performance and factual evidence based on the actual statistical evidence instead of political rhetoric.

PLEASE while we all struggle to understand and make our lives enjoyable, campaigning for or against ANY candidate is NOT what this site is for and I would hate to see it evolve into one of the already numerous places that lost focus on the joys of crafts and sharing with each other.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I have purchased about 25 properties in my lifetime, and yes I have negotiated real estate commissions, some time up, some time down. I have even used a sell yourself agent and paid flat fee (way bellow 6% commission. If you talk to knowledgeable RE agents or brokers, they will tell you that this is not unheard of.


Real Estate commissions are negotiated all the time.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama needs to go.


Yes, he needs to go into the White House for an other 4 years.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Socialism takes away the desire to work and be creative. Obama will take us there. I do not believe that everyone has the right to health care. Sorry. Especially those who smoke, have poor diet habits. Why should I take care of them. What next? Everyone deserves housing? Everyone deserves food to be provided?
> 
> Obama needs to go.


Lukelucy
If you only knew what Socialism is, you would keep quiet.
It is all around you and has served you and the rest of us well.
ANY developed Country has some Socialism. Quit repeating yourself and study the subject, you will look so much better.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

There but for the grace of God . . . .
I can't believe how greedy and "me, me, me" some of the responders sound. What about doing something for the common good of the American people?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am sorry that you went through that. But there is danger in generalizing. Obama will do worse for you. Think of the person and not the party. 

You will loose a lot more with him.


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## GrammyLinda (Oct 14, 2011)

I think we should have a health care plan that everybody would have to use and that means Congress and The Senate(?) cannot spell today. I think they should be on SS also, and not on their penison plan. If they serve even one them, they have the penison plan, and isn't it easy to vote no raises for ss, and vote to "borrow" from SS, and let SS pay for whatever, when it will not affect you. Change everybody to SS, and see how fast they fix to problems. And that is for either party.


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## lecafecrochet (Jun 20, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


Amen sister! He MUST go!


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

Wait and see how well we' be in 4 years with a republican president and republican congress. Only the rich will get richer and the rest of us end up in the bread line. I'm so ashamed of what politician have done to us and how easy it is for them buy their way into the white house.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Socialism takes away the desire to work and be creative. Obama will take us there. I do not believe that everyone has the right to health care. Sorry. Especially those who smoke, have poor diet habits. Why should I take care of them. What next? Everyone deserves housing? Everyone deserves food to be provided?
> ...


Obama and his gang of thugs need to get voted out of office.

We are in socialism now heading straight into communism, MARXISM.

The money that is paying for ObamaNOTcare is coming from defense cuts of $608B over the first part if this decade. The military has has ongoing RIFs since 2011, so far 8,700 federal civilian workers will have lost jobs or been displaced.

Congress has not decided on the 2013 Defense Budget.

Then end result would be as high as a total of military and cilivian military jobs
as high as 2.14M. Yes million.

The other part of the plan is to cut Medicare over $500B beginning in year 2014.

Ask yourself if you think the new healthcare plan will help or hurt your own finances. There are some 21 taxes involved. What the maximum amount you can afford to pay for someone else's health insurance?

Obviously Ingried is here from the Progressives, let's see how long before the other Progressive women land in to stir the pot on subjects we have bashed in the 3 other progressive chats!


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Peoline said:


> Wait and see how well we' be in 4 years with a republican president and republican congress. Only the rich will get richer and the rest of us end up in the bread line. I'm so ashamed of what politician have done to us and how easy it is for them buy their way into the white house.


Now I know of no other administration other than Jimmy Carter's that the elderly had to eat cat food.

Are you poor right now? You will be poorer if you vote for Obama.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

Figure out the taxes on the life of a car that is sold and resold. 

I honestly don't know anyone who does not have health care because it is a choice. People without health care are abused in every situation of care. They are also abused in money. My aunt did not have health care and they called the ambulance. If she had health care, it would have cost $70 and she didn't so it cost $700. In hospital she applied for Medicaid and they paid after $7,000 so she owed $7,000. She was in the hospital 4 times before she died and her portion was total $28,000. Does this sound like a choice? Her husband is paying some each month, but if there were money available, they would not have qualified for Medicaid. Medicaid makes sure you have nothing before they even try to help you and with your nothing you are expected to pay a big chunk. If this sounds in any way like something anyone would choose to do, I'm missing something.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

Also, New York State added $1,000.00 tax to each bill. So they tax you for being in the hospital.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

alcameron said:


> There but for the grace of God . . . .
> I can't believe how greedy and "me, me, me" some of the responders sound. What about doing something for the common good of the American people?


What is the maximum amount you will spend to support some else's health insurance so it doesn't take necessary money away from your own families.
3/4 of businesses in the US provide more jobs than corporations. Those are ones that make $250,000 a year. So jobs are scarce now, what happens when small businesses are put out of business because they can't pay government imposed taxes? People lose jobs.


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## Shdy990 (Mar 10, 2011)

agree totally - the health care bill exempts the president and congress, the Amish, and many others. If it is good enough for the citizens of the US, it should be good enough for everyone (agree with Amish because they pay cash for their stuff). 

I know this is a knitting/crochet forum, but this is a situation where something is being forced by keeping everyone in the dark. Also, the shame is we cannot rely on either side to tell the truth. The only ammunition we have is to vote. So many countries have people dying to gain a vote, and in this country we don't vote.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

I will say this, if the elections where today I would not vote, this will be the first in over 60 years. Politics and politicians have left me with next to nothing, and meanwhile we pay for their trips on private jets, for their houses, food, vacations, and whatever else they desire. And what do I get? Absolutely nothing. One can not live on promises alone.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Also, if the company you are working for decides to take the penalty instead of supplying health insurance, that cost is going to you. You will be responsible for paying for your own health care and that will come out of your AFTER tax dollars. While the company pays for it and you pay your share, it is before tax dollars. Big difference here.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Here's something I've been tracking a few weeks only to awake to several Marine brigades being assigned as terror unit to combat terror in US:

For three years, the Administration has worked to destroy the private sector and destabilize the value of the dollar. It has injected race and class into every argument, setting the stage for summer riots organized by Regime operatives. And when economic calamity and civil unrest are at their zenith, a false flag event against Obama or his family, something that will outrage black America  will be crafted, its purpose, to evoke the ugliest of reactions and create racial chaos in this country that will make the Watts riots, 1968 and the Rodney King riots pale in comparison.

That paragraph was not written by me but a Canadian conservative of the Canadian Free Press. So please don't jump all over me for posting it here. 

Let's hope it never never happens.!


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## Yarnie.One (Jul 13, 2012)

Hi, Pat, aka Westies --

Yes, this IS knitting forum, but this particular section is for general chat. This particular discussion, though, is getting upsetting to me, too, because there is so much lack of knowledge showing in the comments that it's kind of embarrassing. Some of them are pretty knee-jerk and jingoistic.

We here need to realize that this is a world-wide forum, though, and a huge number of the readers don't really care about the particulars of our US politics.

AND -- did any of you who are making all kinds of negative comments even read the link that I submitted earlier that explains the actual mechanics of the bill?

I will repeat my earlier post -- the one that has facts in it --

=================

There's a lot of confusion about this funding issue. One of my FB friends passed along this Snopes.com page that helps clarify some of the issues.

The amount charged on the sale of a home will not be based on the price of the house, but on the income of the people selling the house -- a couple with a joint income of $250K is the bottom line.

Here's the link, which starts out with some of the mis-information that's going around, then states the actual provisions of the legislation.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Yarnie.One said:


> Hi, Pat, aka Westies --
> 
> Yes, this IS knitting forum, but this particular section is for general chat. This particular discussion, though, is getting upsetting to me, too, because there is so much lack of knowledge showing in the comments that it's kind of embarrassing. Some of them are pretty knee-jerk and jingoistic.
> 
> ...


Now there is no confusion on the funding bill, the Department of Defense is cutting $608B and although this administration said in a TV news interview shortly before he was elected he would not raid the Medicare trust fund. He went againt his word has and he is to the tune of over $500B beginning in 2014.

I love Medicare and want it to stay as it is but it can't if it keep getting defunded when it is already going bankrupt.

All those other taxes are small potatoes.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not want to fund health care. I have taken care of myself. I do not want to pay out for people who do not take care of their bodies.


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## Murff (Nov 11, 2011)

IMHO, I don't think politics is "General Chit Chat" because it is such a polarized and devisive topic here, in the USA. Most of the '"Chit Chat" on KP has united us in a caring way.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Leave it to Romney and the death panels will really kick in. They have no plan and really don't care about anyone but the rich.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Please look up the true meaning of Socialism before you post nonsense


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

That is not true. Obama only cares about himself. You are going to pay for health care for everyone. As I said before, the USA cannot support good healthcare for everyone. There aren't enough doctors, nurses, etc. So, health care will become less effective and overall health of people will decline. It is just common sense. 

Health care is going to be run by the gov't. That means grinding wheels and poor judgement. Come on. Think logically!


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## mr2 (Feb 19, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Absolutely. Our health care under Obama is going to mean we all don't live as long.


If the healthcare is so great why do Canadians and Europeans flock to the US for care. It's time for "O" to go


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## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

Couldn't agree more. What a bunch of liars we have in DC!!!


cathy47 said:


> Anymore taxes on taxes on taxes..I am sending in a bag each of lemons and turnips and tell them if they can get money from them they are welcome to it. I am so tired of thinking I am going to make it and those idiots reach back in and take more and more.. I am tired also of these clowns saying how they grew up poor or some hit a nerve with the poor saying and to watch how they spend and throw away money like its nothing. Their words don't match the actions.


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## mr2 (Feb 19, 2011)

Murff said:


> IMHO, I don't think politics is "General Chit Chat" because it is such a polarized and devisive topic here, in the USA. Most of the '"Chit Chat" on KP has united us in a caring way.


I agree


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

I couldn't pass this up without replying. Obama's health care plan is a GODSEND to health care companies. It gives the health care companies more paying customers! The Governent is not givinig FREE health care, it is the health care companies giving health care. 

The bill itself is giving untold millions of dollars in subsidies to health care companies and drug companies. If you want to know why health care is SO HIGH, prescriptions SO HIGH, medicine SO HIGH because you LIVE IN A CAPATIALISTIC SOCIETY!!!!! The companies can charge whatever they want. These health care companies have death panels. They can make a financial decision to KILL you and walk away.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Peoline said:


> At this point in our life's we should all remember that is time for the ones without health insurance to start paying. Our medical bills, emergency room, and medications are so expensive because we are the ones pay extra to cover for those who refuses to have insurance. Just like car insurance, part of our money goes to cover for uninsured drivers. All my life I work and pay for health insurance, I do think is time we tell congress to do what's right, each of us have pay to have health insurance, and I should not have to pay so other people can have medical treatment.


Are you blaming the poor for what a company chooses to make the most profit. These companies answer firstly to share holders. Your purpose in life to them is to give them money for a service they don't want to give.

Many people can not afford health insurance because of a stupid mathematical calculation! You are fortunate to have a job that offers health insurance. What if YOU lost your JOB and LOST your health insurance, what would YOU say then when you had to go to the hospital????????


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You made a great comment. Thank you! The USA has the best health care in the world. It will not be that way if Obama gets his way.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


Are you SO SURE it is President Obama? And, not the CORPORATE empires that RULE politics, not your representative that is paid and lines his pockets daily, but by lobbyists for the corporations.!!! Wake up and smell the coffee, look for the truth, not just what YOUR politicans want you to believe!!!


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Please look up the true meaning of Socialism before you post nonsense[/
> 
> If you think I'm posting nonsense, please describe the difference between 4 types of government, socialism, communism, Marxism, fascism, and capitalizism?
> 
> ...


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

mr2 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Absolutely. Our health care under Obama is going to mean we all don't live as long.
> ...


I hope no one takes offense by this question...none is intended. I've been meaning to research the differences between Obama care and the Canadian health care system, but my big family and yarn-ish type projects havent had the time. So...please weigh in Canadians. Do you like or not like your system? 
My sister lives on the US/Canadian border and is able to pay her mortgage each month with money she makes by letting out rooms to Canadians who have come to the States for medical care. Why is this?
Also, I do a lot of volunteer work at an Independent Living Center ....take the ladies to the Goodwill, SA, etc to look for yarn and also transport them to and from Dr. app'ts. I'm seeing more and more signs going up in Dr. offices saying that the office is no longer accepting Medicare patients. It won't matter how wonderful Obama Care is if there are no medical personnel willing to work in the profession. Thoughts?


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Yarnie.one, thanks for posting that link. It explains the tax clearly. I get so tires of people who repeat mis-information and love when someone forwards the truth.

Since Obama has been in office, it has been the most prosperous years of my life. I am so lucky (translate 'the harder I work the luckier I get'). I think that the climent is ripe for creative thinkers and ambitious entrepreneurs (sp?). I wish that more Americans would look at this as a great time of opportunity and not divisiveness. 

Whether the victor is Romney or Obama, just make a pledge to support whoever the American people chooses to lead us into the future of America.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Leave it to Romney and the death panels will really kick in. They have no plan and really don't care about anyone but the rich.


Think you have Romney and Obama mixed up.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Uyvonne said:


> Yarnie.one, thanks for posting that link. It explains the tax clearly. I get so tires of people who repeat mis-information and love when someone forwards the truth.
> 
> Since Obama has been in office, it has been the most prosperous years of my life. I am so lucky (translate 'the harder I work the luckier I get'). I think that the climent is ripe for creative thinkers and ambitious eJntrepreneurs (sp?). I wish that more Americans would look at this as a great time of opportunity and not divisiveness.
> 
> Whether the victor is Romney or Obama, just make a pledge to support whoever the American people chooses to lead us into the future of America.


I'm very glad you have had these great years. Are these years directly related to Obama, or is it because of the hard work you did to precipitate the rewards you reaped? Are you an entrepreneur? If not, you have a great employer. Obama does not want small businesses to succeed. My daughter owns a small business of 250 employees and currently pays most of their health insurance in a group plan. She worries that any other insurer will want more than the company can afford and knows there are higher taxes looming. This will result in having to cancel insurance on many of her employees, Kproducing extreme hardship on them. Her business has been doing well until the healthcare thing came along with increased taxes.


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## billb1946 (Nov 23, 2011)

If you are a senior and think Obama is on your side think again. They Stole Billions from medicare to help fund Obamacare. That's a fact. Just like they stole the Social Security funds in the 70's to cover up their spending then. Populations given money don't know how to use that money wisely they just spend everything we are forced to give them and borrow the rest. If we the people don't stop them with our votes we will end up just like Grease. Spain and the other European countries that are going broke.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not want to fund health care. I have taken care of myself. I do not want to pay out for people who do not take care of their bodies.


I sure hope you aren't faced with a sudden, unexpected diagnosis of anything. People who eat healthy diets, exercise, watch their weight, etc., still get sick, you know. And I hope your job or source of income doesn't stop.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

billb1946 said:


> If you are a senior and think Obama is on your side think again. They Stole Billions from medicare to help fund Obamacare. That's a fact. Just like they stole the Social Security funds in the 70's to cover up their spending then. Populations given money don't know how to use that money wisely they just spend everything we are forced to give them and borrow the rest. If we the people don't stop them with our votes we will end up just like Grease. Spain and the other European countries that are going broke.


Three thumbs up to you! Most of the socialist european countries are in grave danger because of their debt. If the Euro goes, it is teetering, there will be a huge global financial crisis.


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## HudsonNana (Mar 13, 2011)

And the baby boomers are the ones who have been paying Medicare for a very very long time. And we are still paying for insurance every month. They take it out of our SS check, so we aren't getting medical care for FREE. It's not like the governement didn't know the baby boomers were coming of age and would need medical care (but that money was spent) for other things through out the years. So please don't think Seniors are getting a free medical ride cause it ain't so, my dear.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> Peoline said:
> 
> 
> > At this point in our life's we should all remember that is time for the ones without health insurance to start paying. Our medical bills, emergency room, and medications are so expensive because we are the ones pay extra to cover for those who refuses to have insurance. Just like car insurance, part of our money goes to cover for uninsured drivers. All my life I work and pay for health insurance, I do think is time we tell congress to do what's right, each of us have pay to have health insurance, and I should not have to pay so other people can have medical treatment.
> ...


If you go to the hospital they will not deny you treatment. You will get treated sent a bill, you receive the bill, pay $10 a month, and eventually the hospital writes it off the books as a bad debt. If you are disabled, apply for SSDI, and I know our states have free health clinics.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

The USA is 25th in the world in healthcare.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> The USA is 25th in the world in healthcare.


According to whom....W.H.O.? Can hardly believe that!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Grammaollie
Oi weh!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Explain how Obama is a socialist.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie 
You missed a lot of pertinent information.
We are also 2nd in Infant Mortality. Shameful.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > The USA is 25th in the world in healthcare.
> ...


From the WSJ....
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125608054324397621.html


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

What is the Romney plan for healthcare for Americans? I haven't heard him say, perhaps you have is ear and can tell us all.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Please look up where the $500 T went.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991

Anyone using the term Socialist immediately exposes their poor
knowledge of such a term.

This is just a term being used when an intelligent answer cannot be brought forth.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

WSJ...two words: Rupert Murdoch


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Actually hospitals do NOT write those bad debts off, they raise prices to cover losses. This costs insurance companies more and those who actually pay their bills more. Why do you think credit card companies charge such high interest rates? That's due to people who do not pay their bills. When you shop in stores, part of the price you pay for goods also covers retail theft.

SSDI is only available to those who have paid into the Social Security System over the course of their career.

If you were a stay at home mother/housewife and rarely worked outside the home, you won't be eligible for SSDI payments.

By the way, advising people to not pay their bills doesn't exactly make you look like a responsible person...just saying.


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## GrammyLinda (Oct 14, 2011)

Unless you have a stroke, and can't move, or multi limbs removed, disibility is a nightmare. You apply, and get turned down (99%) then you appeal and get turned down again. Then you get a lawyer (at least a year and a half has gone by). The lawyer appeals it again, and you go before a panel. Your appointment for the panel is anywhere from 2 -2 1/2 years. Finally you get approved, and you don't get medical for 2 years. Really, do you think you don't need medical if you have a disibility? By the time my DH received his disibility, we had spend everything in our 401K, that the market hadn't lost. Now he has medicaid, and we are in the "donut" by May. They have paid 2000, for medicine, and until we spend 4500, we pay for it. Then they start paying again. The first 2000, isn't 2000 that they spend, but the first 2000 spent, they count what we pay each month also. I don't even want to think of what will happen when his kidneys fail, and he goes on dialises. This is no time to be retired. We worked hard all our lives and paid into SS, and now the government has played around and wasted most of the money. I don't know if Romney can do any better, but Obama sure didn't help. I love how he threatened SS when they couldn't vote on a budget. Why not stop paying Congress or the Senate, or fire some or Michelle's staff of 26. I don't know how the other First Ladies managed with a staff of only one or two. Maybe they could stop taking so many vacations.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't believe any of them. Obama is socialist in my mind.


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## Araciel (Apr 2, 2011)

Lukelucy, since you seems to think that Obama is the problem please explain to me how is it possible that everything fell appart as soon as he got in office? How is possible that the banks collapse as soon as he got into office, same for real state, car industry, job market. Remember it was bush who told the banks to keep giving loans, that it didn't matter if people could pay back, tha was his way of keeping a healthy economy. Now we all are paying for his brilliant ideas. Of course he still has his millions and oil rigs. I believe that no matter how healthy you stay soon enough is your genes that will determine how long you live and how sick you may be.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> WSJ...two words: Rupert Murdoch


MSNBC: Two Words (or would that be three according to Joe Biden) Ed Schultz (?)


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Peoline said:


> Lukelucy, since you seems to think that Obama is the problem please explain to me how is it possible that everything fell appart as soon as he got in office? How is possible that the banks collapse as soon as he got into office, same for real state, car industry, job market. Remember it was bush who told the banks to keep giving loans, that it didn't matter if people could pay back, tha was his way of keeping a healthy economy. Now we all are paying for his brilliant ideas. Of course he still has his millions and oil rigs. I believe that no matter how healthy you stay soon enough is your genes that will determine how long you live and how sick you may be.


Ahhhh....I think it was the Dodd/Frank Bill that told the banks to "keep giving loans".


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > Peoline said:
> ...


Now we know who is the one not paying the bill in full ever.
No wonder these Folks want the old guard back.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Listen to Fox News much? Ever fact check any of their rhetoric?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Dodd-Frank hasn't be totally implemented yet.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> rocky1991
> 
> Anyone using the term Socialist immediately exposes their poor
> knowledge of such a term.
> ...


Good grief Ingried you say in other posts we are socialized, can't have it both ways!


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

RitaMarie said:


> "Remember it was bush who told the banks to keep giving loans, that it didn't matter if people could pay back"
> 
> President Bush frequently questioned Dorky Dodd and Freaky Frank about the loans and was assured everything was just fine.
> 
> We have too many career politicians in DC.


And at the same time he was told that the dems had complete control of the Congress.

It was Congress who orchestrated the subprime mortgage debacle, Barney Frank's was in charge of that.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Why use demeaning language?


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Oh real estate started tanking long before Obama was elected.

What I'm really wondering about is, how will health care be handled regarding undocumented aliens? A good many of them do not file tax returns, so accessing the penalty/tax against them will be impossible and if they show up at a hospital they cannot be turned away.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Bydie said:


> mr2 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Not only that, Bydie, but Congress want to cut Doctors Medicare fees by 27%. Doctors have already been fleeing their practices.


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## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Re Bydie's request for Canadian opinion --our system isn't perfect (I don't think such a system exists anywhere) but I think most people in Can. receive quite good care for trauma, major illness & emergency. Health is a provincial responsibility so there are differences between the provices (BC is one of the few provinces that charges health care premiums and a good chunk of taxes goes towards health care). If you are seriously injured in an accident, have a heart attack or stroke, some forms of cancer, or anything requiring immediate emergency care and live in or near a major centre, you will likely receive prompt treatment without personal payment. I find it distressing to read that some Americans can lose their homes and life savings because of a medical emergency. 

There are issues with chronic conditions and preventative health, which is where you see Canadians who can afford it going to US for treatment. Our legislation does not allow doctors to charge for covered services and I know peope who have had to wait for more than a year to have knee or hip replacements. I met a couple that returned to Canada after working in the US medical profession for much of their lives; they are now assoicated with a Canadian business that organizes all aspects of medical treatment for Canadians in US facilities.

Ours is really more of a "medical" system rather than "health care" system. Because doctors are paid a set fee for a particular service, many can't or won't take the time to dicuss overall health and wellbeing in one appointment. Many peope find it difficult to get a family doctor and many doctors don't accept new patients. This puts more pressure on emergency rooms and at a higher cost. Last year a Can. clinic was established with a $1000 per year membership fee that guaranteed patients more time to develop a comprehensive "health" plan with their doctors. They were forced to cancel this service and return to the usual system.

Friends with relatives in Scandavian countries have told me that the health care services there are very good and also covered through taxes. But there are never enough taxes to pay for everything for everyone so medical conditions and services provided are ranked. The impact is felt most in neo-natal and end of life care because that is where the costs are the highest. 

I think there is a lot of room for improvement in both our systems. I also agree that many politicians of all parties on both side of the border have perks and benefits that the rest of us can only dream of.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Dodd-Frank hasn't be totally implemented yet.


The Dodd-Frank financial reform act of 2010 took aim at the deceptive and unsound lending practices that roped borrowers into risky, high-cost loans they could not understand or afford

The DoddFrank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Act (Pub.L. 111-203, H.R. 4173) is a federal statute in the United States that was signed into law by President Barack Obama on July 21, 2010


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, your genes dictate, but people destroy their bodies and that has nothing to do with genes.

I am looking at what Obama has done/not done while in office. I am not going to make a list, but he does what he wants, no matter if he skirts the constitution. He has socialist tendencies that I think are extremely destructive. 

Obama needs to go.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm getting tired of this. Obama has been destructive.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> You made a great comment. Thank you! The USA has the best health care in the world. It will not be that way if Obama gets his way.


ACTUALLY, America ranks #37, not #1, according to the World Health Organization!!!!!! France is #1!!! America DOES NOT
have the best health care in the world.

Also, for those who do not like Obama Care should also remember "ROMEY CARE"!!!!!!!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

links??? to his socialistic tendencies


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The Financial collapse had its beginnings in the mid 60s.
Had not so many made so much money with this Ponzi scheme, it would have collapsed long ago. Where do People think all of the Millionaires came from?
They did not come from Mom and Pop Stores.
Dodd/Frank tried to put a lid on the abusive practices but it was much, much too late.
Initially the papers could be traced but when new Truth in Lending Laws went into effect, the scoundrels found ways to get around them.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Oh real estate started tanking long before Obama was elected.
> 
> What I'm really wondering about is, how will health care be handled regarding undocumented aliens? A good many of them do not file tax returns, so accessing the penalty/tax against them will be impossible and if they show up at a hospital they cannot be turned away.[/
> 
> ...


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Absolutely. Our health care under Obama is going to mean we all don't live as long.


Excuse me, but HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN or KNOW about the HEALTH Insurance DEATH PANELS???? They DECIDE whether YOU live or DIE, not President Obama!!!! Did you know about "ROMNEY CARE"""" Find the facts of truth, don't just listen to news stations or people paid off by health companies!

Do you really THINK the insurance company has YOUR BEST INTEREST at heart when it comes to health??????

I DON'T THINK SO....!!!!!!!!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

links to skirting the constitution


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Ingried said:


> The Financial collapse had its beginnings in the mid 60s.
> Had not so many made so much money with this Ponzi scheme, it would have collapsed long ago. Where do People think all of the Millionaires came from?
> They did not come from Mom and Pop Stores.
> Dodd/Frank tried to put a lid on the abusive practices but it was much, much too late.
> Initially the papers could be traced but when new Truth in Lending Laws went into effect, the scoundrels found ways to get around them.


RIGHT ON

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > You made a great comment. Thank you! The USA has the best health care in the world. It will not be that way if Obama gets his way.
> ...


The article you got #37 from is a propaganda article for dems to argue in favor of the healthcare program.


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > The Financial collapse had its beginnings in the mid 60s.
> ...


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

ACA (Affordable Care Act) also known as Health Care Reform is
very much like what the Swiss used long ago as the basis for their Health Care System and they truly have the finest in the World. Theirs has been revised many times and is in revision at the present time once again. That is how developed Countries take care of things properly.
All People in Switzerland have preventive Care and excellent Health Care from the Cradle to the Grave as it should be in any progressive Society. Call it socialized Medicine at its very best.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Lukelucy, while you point out how people destroy their bodies, please realize that there's a long list of genetic problems that contribute to one's overall health. The "addictive personality" is believed to have a genetic link and this covers ALL addictions: alcohol, drugs and tobacco!

Sometimes it takes several generations to realize that a problem is genetic...take epilepsy for instance. Most people don't realize that it can be a genetic disorder. It happens to run in my family but that wasn't known for a long time. One of my cousins was placed in a mental institution and misdiagnosed with a mental disorder..her problem turned out to be epilepsy. 

People also destroy their bodies in other ways..eating disorders...morbid obesity, anorexia to name just two. Others think that they have to have a "healthy tan" and end up with melanomas. Those who engage in "risky" behavior can contract STD's that require lifetime treatment.

So do you propose that only those who live "healthy" lifestyles have access to affordable care? We've tried that and it doesn't work!

Ingried, not all of us espouse "socialist" agendas and programs, perhaps you do but many American's do not. One side of my family fled communism, which started out as socialism, from eastern Europe. Socialism is not a perfect model for society.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I give a hoot what the article says, it started in the 60s.
Remember some of the Financial World Scandals in the 70s
and the disappearance of certain types of Lenders? 
The infamous Savings and Loans? O, I know it well, very well.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

go to fact check


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Again I read the asinine statement about foreigners flocking to the USA for Health Care. 
Really?
Another one of those continously circulating pieces of nonsense.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Again I read the asinine statement about foreigners flocking to the USA for Health Care.
> Really?
> Another one of those continously circulating pieces of nonsense.


RIGHT ON :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

All one has to do is fact check information....however if you believe talking points and partisan politics you never learn the truth


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

When did I ever support a socialist agenda? I never have.
All I am doing again and again is pointing out that in any developed Society there are Social programs and should be in order to take care of everyone and for example a well functioning Infrastructure as well.

What is our Military, educationsl system, Police, Firemen,
Highways, Bridges, Dams, SS, SSI, Medicare, Medicaid and on and on and on? All of these are social programs. None of these would exist if private Enterprise would have to put out for it.
And if we get back some of the money we paid in Taxes in such manner, we deserve it.

How often does one have to spell out what Socialist means?


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Any form of "lending" is a risky business. Weren't they referred to as "money changers" in the bible?

The whole idea of lending and credit is to "lend" money to people who don't have it and then have them repay the loan to the lender with a "return" (interest) so that the lender makes money from his/her money.

The "money changers" have been making money since the first humans figured out that some had more than others and those who had more could exploit those who had less. 

Now you can try to run the lineage of this problem back to certain acts, or certain people but the problem really stems from the old adage of having "eye's bigger than the belly"...people who simply borrow too much or extend themselves too far.

I'll give you an example of this that most can understand. I do NOT have a text program on my cell phone. I have a "bare bones" cell phone program...a dumb phone, not a smart phone and only use it for "emergency communication". It's cheap. Meanwhile I bank what a fancier cell program would cost me. Every year I take that money and make an additional payment on my mortgage that is purely applied to the principal. I'm shortening my mortgage and in the end I will pay less interest with one very small and doable sacrifice. 

My friends laugh when I complain if they send me a text and I don't respond. I tell them "call me and leave a message, that doesn't cost me anything while a text costs me 20 cents!". 

Little by little we have become a society that won't do without a single thing and then find ourselves over extended and in debt. Our own actions have helped dig this hole we are in.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

courier770

You are so on target re. overspending by a large segment of Society. 
I thought I did not hear right when I heard for the first time "buy the Home and pay interest only".
Well, Folks did because Math was not something they had paid attention to in School and now here they are homeless.
I am not speaking of People who always worked hard, bought a home, lost their jobs(s) and lost their home. I am speaking of the spekulators who got in cahouts with Builders and Mortgage Lenders.
Cell phone, ours is being used for Emergencies exclusively.
For years the regular phone did well for us and we have a great need for time to think and therefore continue the old fashioned way.

"Buy on time" only good if no interest is being charged and the
bill paid before any interest sets in. Otherwise it is good for the
business not the customer.


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## justcrafty (Jun 30, 2012)

sorry to read that all is not well in your country.we can only hope that world peace is near as i know that you do so much towards it, and many of your fine young men are lost to the cause.may be then more can be achieved in settling all the problem you are having .Australia too have many issues that need to be address and many feel that our polititions ar not doing their job properly, just scoring votes.seams we are all in the same boat and no one really knows how to fix all the leaks


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Again I read the asinine statement about foreigners flocking to the USA for Health Care.
> Really?
> Another one of those continously circulating pieces of nonsense.


Ingried, you are not to judge what is nonsense and what is not? You could have said 'that's a possibility', what do they come here for?

The savings and loan crisis started in the early 1980s and continued for over a decade.

Just made strawberry shortcake. If you lived closer you could come over for some! 😃


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Any form of "lending" is a risky business. Weren't they referred to as "money changers" in the bible?
> 
> The whole idea of lending and credit is to "lend" money to people who don't have it and then have them repay the loan to the lender with a "return" (interest) so that the lender makes money from his/her money.
> 
> ...


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

22:22 22/07/2012
Syrian Army pushes rebels out of Damascus and Aleppo
Two hours for Syrian chemical weapons to reach Lebanon. Four armies prepared DEBKAfile Exclusive Report July 22, 2012, 10:47 PM (GMT+02:00) Tags:  Israel   Syria   Hizballah   chemical weapons   missiles   Binyamin Netanyahu  
Syrian WMD-capable missiles
Israeli, Turkish and Jordanian armies and US Middle East forces were on the ready Sunday, July 22, in case Syrian chemical weapons moved toward Lebanon, DEBKAfile reports. Acting in unison, those armies are watching out for the slightest movement, because it would take just two hours to cover the distance from Syria to the Hizballah-controlled Bakaa Valley of Lebanon. Their arrival there would mean a war. So the IDF prefers to stop the arsenal in its tracks before it reaches the Lebanese border.
Read more


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Grammaollie

I stated that it all began in the 60s and will forever stand by it.
Some problems surfaced later, went underground again and 
then the stuff hit the fan and we will suffer from it for some time to come.
Got some extra money? Tremendous Real Estate bargains to be had in Hawaii.

I love Strawberries in any form. Thank you for the invitation.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

OK so it escapes me why someone would repost what I posted without a comment. 

Can you please explain the purpose in this?

Ingried be specific about how problems "went underground". do you mean that some people stuck their heads in the sand and kept borrowing money without the ability to pay it back?


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> I stated that it all began in the 60s and will forever stand by it.
> Some problems surfaced later, went underground again and
> then the stuff hit the fan.


You can stand by it all you want but you are incorrect. Look at the numbers!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Courier770

by "went underground" I mean that the old ways were revised to escape detection and more money was made until it all came to the surface and collapsed.
That is the very reason that it will take years to even figure out who owns which Real Estate. The Mortgage Papers are all over the landscape


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> I stated that it all began in the 60s and will forever stand by it.
> Some problems surfaced later, went underground again and
> then the stuff hit the fan and we will suffer from it for some time to come.
> Got some extra money? Tremendous Real Estate bargains to be had in Hawaii.
> ...


I put blueberries in with the strawberries, the shortcake has a lb of butter it and I make it with rich pastry flour, just caught my husband taking bites of the shortcake while it was cooling. he probably took a bite out of the middle! Of course I only use real whipping cream out of an ISO dispenser to top it off.

Bye for now, off to Shortcake and Scrabble!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

How in the heck do you consider Police and Firefighters "social programs"? Those fall under public safety NOT social programs. They only become social programs when people use those agencies to solve personal problems..like calling the police because your children won't behave or 911 because they didn't give you enough McNuggets at the drive through window!

Mortgage papers are not all "over the landscape"! Title insurance is required to close on any property, anything found amiss must be clarified before the deal is closed. Who have you been using on real estate matters "Cracker Jack and Son"?

Ignorant consumers are just that, ignorant.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Courier
I think she probably means that we all pay taxes for these services for the common good.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

That doesn't make police and fire protection "social services" they fall under public safety.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

courier770 said:


> How in the heck do you consider Police and Firefighters "social programs"? Those fall under public safety NOT social programs. They only become social programs when people use those agencies to solve personal problems..like calling the police because your children won't behave or 911 because they didn't give you enough McNuggets at the drive through window!
> 
> Mortgage papers are not all "over the landscape"! Title insurance is required to close on any property, anything found amiss must be clarified before the deal is closed. Who have you been using on real estate matters "Cracker Jack and Son"?
> 
> Ignorant consumers are just that, ignorant.


Check it out yourself and you may become well informed.
Of course it takes the proper sources for valid information.

Who do you think pays for the Police and Firefighters?
Santa Claus? Your Banker? Fox News? Rush Limburger?
I know it must be tough to be confronted with such
issues and to learn that past statements make no sense.


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## threekidsmom (Feb 8, 2012)

I agree, totally. The fact that they insisted on passing it before anyone got to know what was even in it spoke volumes. The parts I have read are terrifying!


Lukelucy said:


> You made a great comment. Thank you! The USA has the best health care in the world. It will not be that way if Obama gets his way.


----------



## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Yarnie.One said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, Pat, aka Westies --
> ...


PLEASE!!! Re-read the proposal and then go to politfact.org and research carefully! They are NOT proposing to cut YOUR benefits, but to streamline the process. There is too much red tape that can be eliminated to ensure faster better care for less money. NO ONE'S BENEFITS ARE ON THE TABLE TO BE CUT.

And according to my brother, who is a high ranking Colonel in the Air Force, the spending in the military SHOULD be reduced because the wars are de-escalating. We shouldn't be spending at duo war levels when there isn't one. The downsizing has been going on now for almost two years.


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## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

AMEN!


Murff said:


> IMHO, I don't think politics is "General Chit Chat" because it is such a polarized and devisive topic here, in the USA. Most of the '"Chit Chat" on KP has united us in a caring way.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

threekidsmom

It pays to read how long it took for all who had to sign on
to put it all together. By the time the program was ready to
put into Law it could be repeated by Heart word for word by everyone involved. If they state they did not know what was in it, they should get fired because they just did not care and we employ them to work for us.
There was nothing in it at the very end that was an unknown to anyone.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lori Putz

If we just eliminate waste in the Military, we will save a fortune.
Much money has been made while Soldiers had to do without
essentials to stay alive.

Future Wars will be so different from the ones we fought in the past and a reduction in Military funding will have no ill effect on
how it all ends. We are now way overspending for what is
necessary for even the greatest conflict that we could be faced with.
I want a strong Military. And that we will always have since all
of our Military Forces are extremely dedicated to our Country.
I Salut them on my knees.


----------



## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

LOL!!! Have a wonderful time with the outcome of your COOKING CRAFT! Think I will go have some dessert and a dishcloth myself.


grammaollie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > I stated that it all began in the 60s and will forever stand by it.
> ...


----------



## Lori Putz (Jul 13, 2011)

You miss the point. When a war is reduced, the number of soldiers is reduced and the amount to support them. Of course I support the troops as I have two brothers who are career military. And when my Col/brother retires after 35years in the air force, his pension will be over 100,000 a year (the number of zeros are correct) and I will take home in retirement as a teacher of 35 year less than half of that. We seem to support many of our military very well.


Ingried said:


> Lori Putz
> 
> If we just eliminate waste in the Military, we will save a fortune.
> Much money has been made while Soldiers had to do without
> ...


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Police, Firefights and EMT's are supported by local tax dollars. These aren't a "social service" these are public safety services that we pay for.

since I come from a long line of both police officer and firemen, some who have lost their lives in the line of duty, I fully understand the funding.

Maybe the next time your house catches fire you can put it out with a garden hose, or if you need EMT's you can just give yourself resuscitation and when you need a cop because there's a bad guy with a gun...call a local talk show radio host!

Ingreid, maybe you should spend your time researching things instead of insulting people and making assumptions. 
On 9-11 my cousin Tim rushed into the twin towers with the purpose of saving lives, he lost his in the process..where were you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am sorry that you went through that. But there is danger in generalizing. Obama will do worse for you. Think of the person and not the party.
> 
> You will loose a lot more with him.[/qu
> 
> You must be perfect that you think nothing bad could ever happen to you. Do you live in a void where no one matters but you! That's why this country is going in the crapper because of people like you. What do you do for a living, perform miracles and heal yourself?


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> threekidsmom
> 
> It pays to read how long it took for all who had to sign on
> to put it all together. By the time the program was ready to
> ...


Ingried, how many days from the time the bill went into committee until it was signed by the President and released to THE public? The original bill with all the markups was 2500 + - 100 or 200 pages longs. I don't yet know myself but am researching it. It went like a tornado out of the committee and threw congress to get signed.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> threekidsmom
> 
> It pays to read how long it took for all who had to sign on
> to put it all together. By the time the program was ready to
> ...


Ingried, how many days from the time the bill went into committee until it was signed by the President and released to THE public? The original bill with all the markups was 2500 + - 100 or 200 pages longs. I don't yet know myself but am researching it. It went like a tornado out of the committee and threw congress to get signed.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Ingried said:


> threekidsmom
> 
> It pays to read how long it took for all who had to sign on
> to put it all together. By the time the program was ready to
> ...


Ingried, how many days from the time the bill went into committee until it was signed by the President and released to THE public? The original bill with all the markups was 2500 + - 100 or 200 pages longs. I don't yet know myself but am researching it. It went like a tornado out of the committee and threw congress to get signed.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have read most of these 10 pages. This thread started with the 3.8% Medicare tax. I found several errors in the statements made.
> 
> First it is NOT a medicare tax. It is a tax on investment income, which COULD be realized from selling a house. If you sell your main residence and you have owned and lived in it at least 2 of the last 5 years (this is required). You do not pay tax on any gain of up to $250,000 if single or $500,000 if married filing joint.
> This the gain (selling price minus purchase price, improvements, and cost of sale).
> ...


Get out your calculator and give us the numbers! You are too funny! :thumbup:


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

courier770 said:


> OK so it escapes me why someone would repost what I posted without a comment.
> 
> Can you please explain the purpose in this?
> 
> Ingried be specific about how problems "went underground". do you mean that some people stuck their heads in the sand and kept borrowing money without the ability to pay it back?


Courier770,

I had replied to your statement. My message is in the text of yours. I had stated the American economy is based on consumer consumption. Building the economy back up is for people to buy. Unfortunately, too many people are not able to buy anything let alone food and medicine.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> That was then. This is now. People have the right to learn and change their minds. I do all the time. Nothing is worse than Barak O.


Are YOU so SURE??


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Peoline said:


> To lukelucy, think who got us in financial trouble, with wars, (billins spent and we had to walk away owing money to China) with banks, lending money to people who could not pay the loans, etec, etc. back then I vote for the republicans and I have regretted ever since. As a politician to live one year with the exact ammonites as most of us and they will not even respond. My taxes pays for every single thing that they own. I will support a bill that helps uninsured people so when I go to emergency I don't have to take a mortgage on my house. Remember, politicians tells us what we want to hear.


You are so right.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Peoline said:
> 
> 
> > Wait and see how well we' be in 4 years with a republican president and republican congress. Only the rich will get richer and the rest of us end up in the bread line. I'm so ashamed of what politician have done to us and how easy it is for them buy their way into the white house.
> ...


You know, YOU and LUKELUCY seem to be living on so many lies that it is pathetic. What evidence do you have? I mean REAL evidence, not what FOX news or similar conservatives say, but based on scientific and mathematical facts. You and her are very HATEFUL, shame on you as a knitter.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't believe any of them. Obama is socialist in my mind.


Explain what President Obama has done that you would describe him as a socialist? Be sure and not go to Bachman's or Palin's site to find the answer, because they are both chronic liars!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Thanks Revan - Americans like Lukelucy can't bear the thought that America is no longer #1. not just in medicine but in many other ways too we have fallen far off the pedestals we put ourselves on. 
I have travelled abroad and talked to regular people in England and elsewhere. Our allies admire Obama and think Bush was terrible and did a lot to tarnish our image around the world. We were the laughing stock of the World thanks to George Jr. who was too busy off fighting totally unnecessary manufactured wars that were produced so that Evil Dick Cheney and his buddies could make tons and tons of money creating huge jobs projects to rebuild what we destroyed in the Middle East. Does the name Halliburtin ring a bell? George and Dick could care less about spreading democracy. What a joke. We also lost a lot of American soldiers over there for nothing and our allies lost soldiers too. For what? Those wars were started so big bucks could be made. The Bush family is also a member of the worlds oil cartel. Guess whose butts George Bush kisses. The Saudi royal families who's law is Sharia. You know that thing all the holy rollers in the US are so afraid is going to take over America. You better turn around and see who is putting the screws to you. It isn't Obama it's the same old gang that ran the circus when baby George was the Puppet in Chief. They will be pulling Mitt's strings too. Wake up before we all fall into the abyss. You blame the poor for everything too. The welfare we give to the rich every year makes benefits for the poor look like chump change and the rich look at us and laugh because we are the chumps who believe they really give a damn about us. What will Mitt Romney and the Republicans do for you? We are not the carrying compassionate country that others looked to with respect. We have become a bunch of miserly, self-centered bigots who are afraid of our own shadow and we want to destroy anyone and anything we don't understand. Wake up fools before it's too late! 


Revan said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > You made a great comment. Thank you! The USA has the best health care in the world. It will not be that way if Obama gets his way.
> ...


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Revan - Americans like Lukelucy can't bear the thought that America is no longer #1. not just in medicine but in many other ways too we have fallen far off the pedestals we put ourselves on.
> ...


It was a sign of respect! You must understand that customs in other countries are different than from the way you were 
raised and grew up in.

Remember Bush in Japan? Presidents have a protocol on how to relate and act with leaders of other countries.


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## lfitzie (Apr 4, 2011)

If Obamacare was a good bill why are Congress, Washington elites, public sector unions and thousands of other special interest groups exempted. When they have to have Obamacare then I'll support it, not until then.


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## aquarius (Sep 16, 2011)

I agree Obama should go.He should have not been there in the first place. Made promises to people without a clue how it all works. sad to people who believed in him.


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## theriv17 (Jun 15, 2011)

Thanks to yarnie one for her advice for everyone to check out the real, impartial, and true facts on Snopes.com. I'm becoming quite disheartened with a lot of the 'flaming' rhetoric from some of the contributors here. Much of it is hearsay, misunderstood, or slanted along the lines of some hysterical (I hesitate to say right-wing extremist) polemicist. I'm going to skip the general chat from now on. I didn't join KP to read all this. I know it's my choice, but I agree with all the others who are not happy about this turning into a forum for political views.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course millionaires came from mom and pop stores at the beginning. It takes hard work and it's done. 
I have a friend IN Great Britain who coordinates patient with home after a hospital stay. She said an American's health will deteriorate if Obamacare comes here. She told me some gruesome stories about her experiences. One patient whose death was imminent had to go home. My friend fought for her to stay and die in the hospital (meds were needed; she needed to stay in the hospital).

Also, health care is not equal in Britain. It depends where you live (the richer have better health care there. I have another British friend that says that those that get better health care pay under the table.

Why is it that people from all over the world come here for medical help?


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

People from all over the world come to the US for medical help because we have SOME of the best specialists in the world. Though I find it interesting that many of these specialists are not actually people who were born or educated in America.

I am under the care of one of the top hand surgeons in my area, who happens to be from the UK. During one visit I asked him why he was not practicing in the UK or Europe. He told me he didn't like working under a socialized health care system (money perhaps?).

So in addition to people from all over the world coming here for heath care, health care professionals from all over the world come here to practice.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course it's money. And that is ok. That is the American way. Everyone is free to pursue money. It seems that people who don't make it dislike people that do. Why don't they go out and get going - take risks and work in fields that do instead of getting jealous. 

To the person who said that I cannot face American and the way it is - I do. Don't be a mind reader - because you are off base.


----------



## KEgan (Feb 15, 2012)

courier770 said:


> Actually, I have yet to meet ANY realtor that will negotiate commission. The commission is "split" with the listing broker getting the largest piece of the pie, the selling agent getting a cut and the agent of t he buyer getting a cut. Since brokers cannot call the shots on everyone's piece of the pie, they don't negotiate on this.
> 
> Capital gains on real estate sales are NOT taxed if the gain is used to purchase another primary residence home. In the case of a home sale due to an "estate" (death of the owner where there are heirs) unless the amount of each heir exceeds the threshold of inheritance, no taxes are paid on the "gain".
> 
> ...


Really? We've negotiated with our realtor to 4%, when we sold our house.


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Perhaps in some areas, realtors are more willing to negotiate. Where I live now, if you negotiate a lower commission, agents not connected to the broker you are using will not show your home because they get less too. So you end up losing showings and potential buyers.

A town home in my complex was for sale at a very reasonable price and it seemed like no-one came to look at it. When I asked a realtor agent friend of mine why, she explained that it was a negotiated commission contract. Agents representing buyers were loathe to show it due to the reduced commission. It took 3 years to sell that unit and the price was dropped twice. Other comparable units sold in far less time. So was it really worth negotiating that commission down? I don't think so.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Courier 770

You speak of "price fixing" and that is illegal.
I know that what you speak of happens but should be exposed.
No-one will hold me hostage for commission when I want to sell.
And in a weak market one has some leverage actually on both sides. Too many Realtors are hungry.

Years ago one could also never find out what any property sold for. Only Realtors had books which came out monthly that showed the Sale Price. Got that fixed, didn't we!


----------



## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Yes realtors are hungry..but they don't make their money like most of us. They don't have a set salary or hourly wage. when the real estate market is "down", it can be tough for them. I do try to look at things from both sides of the fence.

My friend who is the real estate agent..started out being my agent (as a buyer)..it was a "long distance" deal and she went far and beyond anything I ever had an agent do. I was in Chicago and she was out here in Colorado. She came out to this condo in the middle of a blizzard to take photos of specific areas that I asked for. She met my son late at night in this condo to show it to him, she spent hours and hours faxing and emailing me and when I arrived here she took me out to lunch and introduced me to people she knew who knitted! She helped me find a new insurance agent, a reasonably priced person to do an inspection that included all the mechanicals and appliances. She earned every penny of the small commission she got on this sale.

In the past 5.5 years she's called me in tears when tragedy has struck her family and I have called her when it's hit mine.

I don't mind paying people a fair price for a job well done.


----------



## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Courier, you stated that "Actually, I have yet to meet ANY realtor that will negotiate commission". Now you are saying that you know of a case of this negotiation that went bad. Obviously one of these statements is not true! I would think that one would never leave a property on the market for 3 years. That is crazy. When you negotiate a reduced commission, it is a risk that you take that the realtor may not be "motivated" to show your property. If your property is in the higher price bracket, say anything over $500,000., it is easier to get a good agent to reduce the commission and show the property. 4% of 500K is still $20K. I would be motivated to show a property for that kind of commission.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Courier 770

3 years on the Market? A lot of questions I have about this
property if other properties in the area sold.
In business, nothing is chiseled in Granite. Everything is negotiable.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

There is no "not true" statement here...I personally have not met a realtor who will negotiate commission but had it explained to me why this is not particularly popular.

Homes in the 500k and up price range may be more prevalent in some area's than others. Where I currently live they are more of a rarity than the norm. Still that 4% doesn't all go to one person. The broker takes the largest slice, the selling agent gets some and the buyers agent gets some. Unless the sale goes through the broker alone, no one is going to walk away with a 20k commission.

The broker on this particular town home (where the original price was in the 300k area), didn't "work" the property very well. She sat back hoping others would do the work for her, with very little reward. She did such a poor job on the unit that our homeowners association took sanctions against her (for several reasons).

Yes it was 3 years on the market and no excuse for it. The seller had to keep paying HOA fees (on two occasions fell behind). By the time the unit sold, the seller accepted a very "low ball" offer. So much for negotiation. It cost them more to "negotiate" in the long run.

I've negotiated in real estate before, nothing is etched in stone unless you sign an agreement that favors someone else over yourself.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Peoline said:
> ...


Because you are calling us names, you do not have any arguments left! Lukelucy and I win! Yea! You lose! Yea


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Lori Putz said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Yarnie.One said:
> ...


Your brothers retirement benefits are on the table to be slashed! Depending on the slot he is in, he will likely be RIFed. Check the Air Force Times. It's called reduction in force (RIF). Where do you thinks the Defense cuts are coming from? All the services are going through it, have been since 2011. Just google air force RIF 2012, then 2013, then 2014.
Factcheck is another place to check. But usually Defense Department documents are pretty accurate.

Check back a few of my posts and see my post.

And that bill is only a red herring! There is much more at work.

I do not listen or watch any TV news. I'm smart enough to see and understand what is going on without someone TELLING me what is going on.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I don't think that any solution is going to please everyone. For the most part I am NOT going to complain about the taxes I pay...gasp, shock! I really mean that though.

Some states are more "frugal" than others and get more bang for their buck. As for the federal level, all I have to say is I look at what I earn, look at what I pay in the long run and look at how far what I pay in has to go and really folks I'm not going to complain very much.

I work with a woman who gets herself into such an uproar that finally one day I asked "how many nights do you have to camp on the toilet over these issues"...she confessed that they were far too many.

DO I think that everything is fair? No. Do I agree with everyone? Of course not. Is everyone going to agree with me? Again, of course not.

We live in trying times and if the best we can do is to reach down and help someone below us..that's OK with me..I've been the guy below more than a few times in my life. What I have learned in life, is that when you are the guy above, take a moment to pull the one below you up, when you are the guy below..reach back and pull the next one up.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

courier770 said:


> I don't think that any solution is going to please everyone. For the most part I am NOT going to complain about the taxes I pay...gasp, shock! I really mean that though.
> 
> Some states are more "frugal" than others and get more bang for their buck. As for the federal level, all I have to say is I look at what I earn, look at what I pay in the long run and look at how far what I pay in has to go and really folks I'm not going to complain very much.
> 
> ...


 Very good thought!


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## theriv17 (Jun 15, 2011)

Thank you, Grandma Ollie. You are a mensch, a good human being!!! If we all started to contribute in a useful way to others instead of whining and bitching, our America 2012 would be a much better place to live. As a by the way, my parents never ate cat food during the Carter administration and they were older seniors (in their 70s) then. And they were in the tax bracket that they didn't have to file income tax (low income). We helped each other.
I just violated my earlier statement that I wasn't going to read this anymore. But KP keeps sending me updates. Oh well.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Today in New York Times:

You just can't miss this:

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/health/diseasesconditionsandhealthtopics/health_insurance_and_managed_care/health_care_reform/index.html


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## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

I use a felon (state prison for 4 years) for odd jobs, who do you use?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Re Bydie's request for Canadian opinion --our system isn't perfect (I don't think such a system exists anywhere) but I think most people in Can. receive quite good care for trauma, major illness & emergency. Health is a provincial responsibility so there are differences between the provices (BC is one of the few provinces that charges health care premiums and a good chunk of taxes goes towards health care). If you are seriously injured in an accident, have a heart attack or stroke, some forms of cancer, or anything requiring immediate emergency care and live in or near a major centre, you will likely receive prompt treatment without personal payment. I find it distressing to read that some Americans can lose their homes and life savings because of a medical emergency.
> 
> There are issues with chronic conditions and preventative health, which is where you see Canadians who can afford it going to US for treatment. Our legislation does not allow doctors to charge for covered services and I know peope who have had to wait for more than a year to have knee or hip replacements. I met a couple that returned to Canada after working in the US medical profession for much of their lives; they are now assoicated with a Canadian business that organizes all aspects of medical treatment for Canadians in US facilities.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your reply. It is one of the best I've read describing your system, without the political leaning.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Look, President Obama was in his country! And, who did YOU listen to that it was disrespectful that he touched Queen Elizabeth? How many times in a day do YOU DO SOMETHING that is viewed wrong by others?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Respect

Something that unfortunately is very foreign to many People these days.
There are diplomatic Protocols all World Leaders follow and perhaps they should be learned in our Country.

It is arrogant to think that we are the only Nation in the World that counts and everyone should admire us.
Now that is snobbery on a grand scale.

But I do not expect too much from too many since just simple manners are not shown much anymore anywhere.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > courier770 said:
> ...


I am a professional Social Worker. I have both my Bachelor's and Master's degrees in Social Work.

Social work is for the betterment of society, which includes "general public safety." If a LCSW (Licensed Clinical Social Worker) is helping an individual with ideations of killing both himself and others (society, people he does not know), than I consider the therapist is not only helping the individual by keeping himself safe and "society". Social Services are paid by counties, as well as the Federal Government (regarding paying foster parents who take care of foster children).

Social workers help the needs of children, youth, families, elderly, development disabled, mentally challenged, I would consider the "safety" of society. Also, poverty and income security, mental health, substance abuse, and developmental disabilities and other areas many people do not know.

"The profession of social work was born from the need to ensure that a cadre of professionals armed with an understanding of human behavior, awareness of how social organizations function, and sensitivity to the effects of the environment as determinant of individual growth and development would emerge as society's first line of remediation." (Book, Social Work and Social Welfare An Introduction)


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > grammaollie said:
> ...


I did not call you a name! I asked if you were a Teabagger? Read the words as they say not what you want to see! Oh, I have many arguments left! You and Lukelucy DID NOT WIN! I WON because I look for the truth and facts, something apparently you and her do not do! So YOU DID NOT WIN!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

LillyK,

I know the USA is not #1. I can list so many ways it is not. I can face that fact easily. Please do not try to read my mind.
But, health care in other countries is not what you think. Someone said we rank #37. I'd still rather be treated here.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Revan said:
> ...


You called us pathetic and hateful! We win! When you can only fling insults you lose!

LUKELUCY WON, I WON, YOU LOST LOST LOST!

We don't need TV news to tell us what to think. We can figure that for ourselves by seeing the amount of money we are going to have to pay in tax hikes.

WE WON WE WON WE WON. YEA YEA YEA

Oh by the way, it's 'You and she',


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

You sound like a 7-year old.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No body is winning here. Obama is changing our constitution. Neither candidate is great. Obama is just worse. 

I must end this because it is just too much. I am not winning anything!

We will be in worse shape with Obama.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> LillyK,
> 
> I know the USA is not #1. I can list so many ways it is not. I can face that fact easily. Please do not try to read my mind.
> But, health care in other countries is not what you think. Someone said we rank #37. I'd still rather be treated here.


That number #37 was used in a propaganda article trying to tell people how much the healthcare bill is needed.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Hate to say, I agree. I'm not part of any winning.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The #37 was a ranking by WHO from 2000 and you have to be careful interpreting the numbers. You need to read about the criteria.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I bet it is propaganda. Sent out by Obama.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I agree again.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh, pul-lease. You actually think the president is sitting around sending out healthcare rankings?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No I do not think Obama is sitting around doing that. I was just being sarcastic. You took me literally.


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > grammaollie said:
> ...


You can thank George W. Bush for all the debt you have to pay back, and that does not include how he walked over the Constitution to make a buck.

If you want to be the BULLY on the playground go ahead. I choose to be the adult and say that we agree to disagree.
I have a master's degree so don't tell me I can not write correct English.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Revan said:
> ...


A masters degree does not excuse your lack of English.

Hey, you started with telling us we were liars, you bullied. I stood up for myself. I don't know which Constitutional violations Bush committed, but I do know Obama has committed several. So it's ok that Obama has trampled the Constitution, but it is not ok for George Bush?


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## illusionsbydonna (Mar 24, 2012)

Uyvonne said:


> I have purchased about 25 properties in my lifetime, and yes I have negotiated real estate commissions, some time up, some time down. I have even used a sell yourself agent and paid flat fee (way bellow 6% commission. If you talk to knowledgeable RE agents or brokers, they will tell you that this is not unheard of.


It might be different state by state.. Here the commission is split 50/50 (7% fee) with the listing agent and selling agent..The selling agent IS the buyers agent..There is no third party split of the commission..However, both of these agents are assumed to be working for the seller and sometimes buyers will pay out of pocket a different fee for a buyers agent that specifically represents their interest..It all gets very complicated.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

annygranny said:


> think we have joined the silly club as well. taxes, taxes, and more taxes, fuel and food going through the roof, hospitals that are closing down, we are going backwards instead of forwards.


Isn't increasing the value of a home far beyond it's worth a form if tax increase? This is what happened the first decade of this century and the economy rapidly declined as a result. If anything we(the average tax payer) have seen a decrease in taxes in the last 3.5 years, which wasn't an easy thing--many of us lost our homes. Also choosing a group like baby boomers to be targeted is silly because we have all levels of incomes--actually it is the generation before the baby boomers that lived in luxury, were free to travel all over the world and own a second home and benefited greatly because the baby boomer were paying in. Personally I suffered immeasurably because of Reagon years. Lost a once successful business of 20 years followed by not being able to work--it has widely been accepted that no one employs anyone over the age of 50 and age discrimination laws have melted into a puddle leaving you broken if you fight it. Plus the IRA's have declined not increased--so wisely saving hasn't worked--yes the baby boomers are paying through the nose during this really bad economy. A better target would be those who have benefited from all the deregulation and tax loop holes allowed to creep back into the system during the last five, make that six, decades. Pointing a finger at any one thing is not reality--it's a blaming game.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't see how increasing home value a tax. That one passes me by.


----------



## Ms Sue P (Mar 19, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


AMEN


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't see how increasing home value a tax. That one passes me by.


You must not pay property tax.....property tax is based on the value of your home.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

Revan said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Revan said:
> ...


I'm not the bully, your comments to me speak for themselves. You call me hateful, pathetic, and a liar. If you had a Masters Degree I think you could express yourself in a more diplomatic way. As I've said many times when people can no longer provide valid arguments they resort to name calling and smearing. Those tactics only reflect on yourself.

Because you brought it back into play, show me how you and her is better grammar than you and she.

About presidential debt, Obama raised the ante with a couple of billion dollar stimulis packages. Do you know where the money was suppose to go? It has stimulated zilch. On top of that he is chopping military and non defence military jobs right and left.

Obama went to war without congressional approval, and has kept zero of his campaign promises. Well he kept one that we don't know about and that was not to tell the people about shaping this republic into Marxism.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

The topic of this thread was funding healthcare. The administration has been very transparent that the bill will be paid for by cuts in the Department of Defense ($608B) and Medicare ($500B). Just those cuts alone are going to make minimally upwards of 500M people losing jobs over the time until Obamacare is in full effect. In 2012, 87,000 non military workers have or will have lost their jobs over 80 military sites. The 2013 Defense Budget has not been finalized. 

There is truth in numbers, and the numbers come straight from the Department of Defense.

The reason why Obama wants the George Bush tax cuts to stay in place for this year is because if and when Obama reverts back to 1998 rates it will dramatically effect those yearly taxes on all income levels. The democratic Senate has been very adamant about raising the taxes on everyone.

You can look up the difference yourself.

Yes he is targeting $200-250 thousand dollars a year money makers. I've always thought the 'rich' were at least millionaires.

We will have to wait and see how the next few months plan out. If it looks like Romney will win, you will see class warfare.

If you read the article that was published in the NY Times today, you will understand how the healthcare bill is constantly changing faces. It is a great deal of flux, deciding who will get waivers, etc. It is a real eye opener!

The Healthcare bill will effect your state taxes, how could it not?

Ask yourself what is your bottom line you will pay to support the healthcare bill until it effects your finances just to support your own family.

The original cost of the healthcare bill was $900B, now is upwards of $2T. Your taxes are going up up up.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No body is winning here. Obama is changing our constitution. Neither candidate is great. Obama is just worse.
> 
> I must end this because it is just too much. I am not winning anything!
> 
> We will be in worse shape with Obama.


Oi weh, oi weh, oi weh.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> Revan said:
> 
> 
> > grammaollie said:
> ...


Obama is right. The Republicans have nothing to offer


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> LillyK,
> 
> I know the USA is not #1. I can list so many ways it is not. I can face that fact easily. Please do not try to read my mind.
> But, health care in other countries is not what you think. Someone said we rank #37. I'd still rather be treated here.


What other countires have you been to that provide healthcare to all their citizens. I have been to hospitals in countries that provide care to all their people and they do very nicely. They are apalled in these countries that we are so far behind and can't understand why when you lose your job you get the double blow of losing your healthcare too. We should be ashamed.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I lived in France for almost three years. I had my baby in a French hospital with a wonderful French ob/gyn and sage-femme. When the baby came home from the hospital and caught a cold, the pediatrician made a house visit! We didn't even have to go out to get the medicine. I don't know what the system is like today, but we had wonderful, free medical care while we were there.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

There is an interesting site progessives can go to now. The other chat cafes have been closed. But they have opened a new forum that they can erased the conservationss and call the conservative names. LittlyK and Engried are the leaders if anyone is interested in it. Very elite.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ACA will provide good health care for you grammaollie.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> There is an interesting site progessives can go to now. The other chat cafes have been closed. But they have opened a new forum that they can erased the conservationss and call the conservative names. LittlyK and Engried are the leaders if anyone is interested in it. Very elite.


Thanks Country Bumpkins - We asked Admin to lock the two Progressive threads because people like you were 
cr_ p all over it. You are to lazy to set up your own so you park your butt in somebody else's backyard and let it rip. Real classy. Admin suggested we start our own managed site so we can keep the conversation civil and intelligent. Sorry, you didn't make the cut, and yes we are very special women who now and understand what is going on in the world. We don't watch FAUX news and listen to the oxycontin junkie on the radio.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Wouldn't be on it in a million years.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> The topic of this thread was funding healthcare. The administration has been very transparent that the bill will be paid for by cuts in the Department of Defense ($608B) and Medicare ($500B). Just those cuts alone are going to make minimally upwards of 500M people losing jobs over the time until Obamacare is in full effect. In 2012, 87,000 non military workers have or will have lost their jobs over 80 military sites. The 2013 Defense Budget has not been finalized.
> 
> There is truth in numbers, and the numbers come straight from the Department of Defense.
> 
> ...


You better recheck your numbers. I put a new battery in your calculator.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ask4j said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


In this case is was an increase to replace the federal taxes that were with drawn to fund the wars.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I lived in France for almost three years. I had my baby in a French hospital with a wonderful French ob/gyn and sage-femme. When the baby came home from the hospital and caught a cold, the pediatrician made a house visit! We didn't even have to go out to get the medicine. I don't know what the system is like today, but we had wonderful, free medical care while we were there.


alcameraon

Doctors still make housecalls in the western european Countries. The care is still extraordinary and there are no waiting periods except now and then for elective surgery.
They also have varied Ambulances. For life threatening cases a Physician is on board. They call them blue light Ambulance.

We in the USA are far behind many, many Countries when it comes to Health Care for everyone.
ACA (Affordable Health Care) represents the biggest step into the future we have taken in over 1/2 a Century.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Ingried said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I lived in France for almost three years. I had my baby in a French hospital with a wonderful French ob/gyn and sage-femme. When the baby came home from the hospital and caught a cold, the pediatrician made a house visit! We didn't even have to go out to get the medicine. I don't know what the system is like today, but we had wonderful, free medical care while we were there.
> ...


Yes, if only more of us could understand that. We are a nation of people and even just one person suffering is too much (not talking about those who "use" the system). Norway has been considered the "best place to live". But they work hard to get to a position where everyone has the same opportunities and they pay high taxes to achieve it--their oil income is managed in an entirely different way than ours, of course,--here we "supplement" the oil industry to "keep gas prices low". Since we are many times the size of Norway, our taxes would not reach the level theirs has but increase it will then we would all have quality health care and no more price gauging medications and the elderly taken care of without exploitive care costs. They also provide child care for working parents. They live comfortably and wisely but not in huge mansions dominating the landscapes. Instead they live to appreciate nature and all living things.


----------



## grammaollie (Jul 18, 2012)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > There is an interesting site progessives can go to now. The other chat cafes have been closed. But they have opened a new forum that they can erased the conservationss and call the conservative names. LittlyK and Engried are the leaders if anyone is interested in it. Very elite.
> ...


Real nice talk for snobbish elitists. We don't watch Fox news, we can think for ourselves! But for those who don't think for themselves, they glue themselves to MSNBC, Racheal Maddow and Bill Mahr to get their (your) brain fed with anti government propaganda. You know it always amazes me to see and read holier than thou folks think they can put down anyone they want. It always comes back to bite them. ALWAYS


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > There is an interesting site progessives can go to now. The other chat cafes have been closed. But they have opened a new forum that they can erased the conservationss and call the conservative names. LittlyK and Engried are the leaders if anyone is interested in it. Very elite.
> ...


Very classy! I'm embarassed for you. And BTW, you are an intellectual light-weight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


At least she has intelligence, Bydie


----------



## theriv17 (Jun 15, 2011)

What has happened to all of you? Name-calling, insults, unbelievable behavior coming from supposed adults. I wish Admin would discontinue any general chat pertaining to politics, religion, race, gender, etc. This is simply not the forum for it. I'm really disgusted with everyone. And yes -- I'm a Liberal Progressive Obama supporter, work actively on his campaign, have read the Healthcare Act and the Supreme Courts decision, and wish you'd all just shut up!


----------



## ragdoll03 (Sep 17, 2011)

Revan said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Revan said:
> ...


Revan, YES, it is VERY disrespectful to touch the Queen at anytime anywhere. No one can/should talk to her palace guards either. It has been this way for years. My source is my grandfather who is from England. One does not bow to any king in any shape or form. It does not matter where O was, it still should not be done. Again, O does what he wants when he wants and gets away with it.


----------



## Jamey (Jul 24, 2012)

theriv17 said:


> What has happened to all of you? Name-calling, insults, unbelievable behavior coming from supposed adults. I wish Admin would discontinue any general chat pertaining to politics, religion, race, gender, etc. This is simply not the forum for it. I'm really disgusted with everyone. And yes -- I'm a Liberal Progressive Obama supporter, work actively on his campaign, have read the Healthcare Act and the Supreme Courts decision, and wish you'd all just shut up!


theriv17,
Very excellent point! I am with you all the way. I also wish Admin would sanction any one who steeps so low as to bad mouthing others. Based on what
I have read, it appears that Lilly is the meanest one...regardless whatever she 
believes in...it is very difficult for me to understand what that is...perhaps, she 
has a difficult time expressing herself...but, as you so rightfully say, name calling and insults are not adult behavior. A solution would be for Admin to suspend for a period of time...in her case at least a month.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Lilly.

Aren't you the potty mouth! An intelligent person who be able to address the political issues...truthfully and with accuracy.

Your remarks are there for all to see. You and your gang--Ingried, Nortwoods Gal, MaryMargaret, et cetera--you all lost in an open debate. The best you could do was to SMEAR your opponents. This did not give you debating points...as a matter of fact they lost you points. Unfortunately, for you and your gang,
you were unable to address the issues and demonstrate that you knew what you were talking about.

We pointed out the formula that you rigidly practiced...to SMEAR your opponents and to AVOID the issue at all costs. Your continued use of this approach cost you Progressive Cafe Forum.
Admin locked it down and Progressive Cafe Forum 11 was started. 

The same thing was happening all over again except now you were just not barely losing points...you were being smashed!

The record of both debates are there for all to see. As a result you and your elitists gang started a safe haven, called Womens Progressive Cafe. You were able to message each others egos...
others like Country Bumpkins, Grammaollie, Joeysomma, etc...to myself were excluded. You could have continued on this thread with the serenity to express to each other your political beliefs.
Some how this allowed you to work up the courage to once again
enter open debate...in Pro Cafe 11.

Unfortunately, you regressed back to the same old formula from the first debate...and not only SMEARED your opponents by name calling and insults...now you were using obscenities. Admin locked up this debate because it was getting totally out of hand...you and your gang were completely outclassed in debating issues. Again, the record is there for all to see.

Apparently, in the future...if you dare...we will see you once again.

But, I do not believe Admin is going to tolerate potty mouth language. I advise that you forego name calling and insults and present your opinions and facts with appropriate citations.
We want to learn from each other...and not be putdown by vile personal insults. After all this is the American way...and we have friends here from other countries.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

LillyK said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > The topic of this thread was funding healthcare. The administration has been very transparent that the bill will be paid for by cuts in the Department of Defense ($608B) and Medicare ($500B). Just those cuts alone are going to make minimally upwards of 500M people losing jobs over the time until Obamacare is in full effect. In 2012, 87,000 non military workers have or will have lost their jobs over 80 military sites. The 2013 Defense Budget has not been finalized.
> ...


sarcasm and insults again, Lilly?


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


Northwoods gal,
sarcasm and insults, again.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There you go. So it really has nothing to do with gov't getting our money. Plus, I would assume it would be state money anyway. Not federal.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ask4j said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


You miss-understand I never said that property tax went towards Federal government spending. I said that property taxes had to increase in order to cover funds that were previously coming from Federal funding. Remember the slogans "let the local communities support themselves" or something to that affect. Education was cut drastically, for example, and something most of us are not aware of, many rural communities have had to either close schools or cut back to four days of school per week. We need to know just how all these campaign slogans are going to affect us and just what exactly they are covering up or aiming at--the real truth, that is, before it hits us. If you have looked at home listings recently, looking at the property tax records (which only gives the amounts), values hit the ceiling and taxes along with it. Then the home values began dropping drastically but in many cases not the taxes. Aside from property tax we now have multiple sales tax--each time a stadium is built a new tax is added but never repealed--we still have a tax going towards the metro dome which "they" now want to destroy. Try analyzing just what sales tax goes towards what, nearly impossible because of the hidden agendas. Merchants within the city of Minneapolis are suffering the most because of all the sales taxes, city, county and state. Taxes are acceptable if it goes towards community and benefit the people that pay them but not okay when private pockets are filled.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

theriv17 said:


> What has happened to all of you? Name-calling, insults, unbelievable behavior coming from supposed adults. I wish Admin would discontinue any general chat pertaining to politics, religion, race, gender, etc. This is simply not the forum for it. I'm really disgusted with everyone. And yes -- I'm a Liberal Progressive Obama supporter, work actively on his campaign, have read the Healthcare Act and the Supreme Courts decision, and wish you'd all just shut up!


I haven't read every comment but so far have not seen any name calling--which as you say is childish in the first place. Just now property tax was being discussed. It helps to discuss and bring forth what we all may experience and know from personal dealings. Using labels like liberal or conservative are creating anger and misunderstandings and avoiding the real issues. And again you are right political issues are best left for another site--but this is an election year and a good rational discussion shouldn't hurt us and hopefully we all go back to our knitting with more understanding of why yarn costs so much or something like that.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Could you give me at least one example of how Obama has changed theContitution?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He decided (please forgive, I forgot what it was but it was recent and I'll come up with it). He was voted down, but somehow it went through. He got his way by just ignoring his checks and balances. 

I am sorry, but I cannot remember what it was. I'll keep thinking. It was written in the Wall Street Journal. Big article. 

I just asked my husband to remember. He can't either, but he said there were a "whole bunch of things" that Obama did that he should not have done and he got away with it even though he should not have. I'll try to think hard and ask around.

It was a big article. I'll try to goole it.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Ask4j

It is so nice ot meet someone who knows something beyond the borders of our Country.
May I add that Sweden has the highest Taxes in that part of Europe BUT also the HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING.
I take that exchange any day.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

But, there are other countries that have higher taxes than US and their standard does not compare to ours. 
There must be other factors that make it succeed.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He decided (please forgive, I forgot what it was but it was recent and I'll come up with it). He was voted down, but somehow it went through. He got his way by just ignoring his checks and balances.
> 
> I am sorry, but I cannot remember what it was. I'll keep thinking. It was written in the Wall Street Journal. Big article.
> 
> ...


This is a typical example of someone, sometime, someplace said something, I don't know exactly what but here it is!!!!
Are we not all too familiar with this scenario?

President Obama is a Constitutional Scholar - eat your Heart out.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Oh, my. He is manipulative. Yes, as a lawyer, he knows how to manipulate. I cannot help but shake my head in dismay. Just because he is a "scholar" does not make him qualified for the job. He is simply a politician. Nothing more. He does not know business and how to budget.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Oh my. Romney sure knows how to buget so that Management gets irch and Employees lose their jobs and with that Home and everything. 

I am proud that our President, President Obama, is highly intelligent, a Scholar, decent, humane, fair and caring and
well liked around the Globe so unlike his Predecessor.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry to say, I don't think he is well-liked. This whole country is based on capitalism. Why shouldn't he make money. So what. You can too, if you wanted. People who are not as rich are simply jealous. Let them make money, too. Good for Romney. That is the American way.

Do you think Obama is poor??? He is loaded.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Ingried said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I lived in France for almost three years. I had my baby in a French hospital with a wonderful French ob/gyn and sage-femme. When the baby came home from the hospital and caught a cold, the pediatrician made a house visit! We didn't even have to go out to get the medicine. I don't know what the system is like today, but we had wonderful, free medical care while we were there.
> ...


----------



## Northernrobin (Dec 12, 2011)

You do know, don't you, that we could afford health care for all, if we had not thrown billions upon billions away on these wars?....that is the real source of our economic woes.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Ask4j
> 
> It is so nice ot meet someone who knows something beyond the borders of our Country.
> May I add that Sweden has the highest Taxes in that part of Europe BUT also the HIGHEST STANDARD OF LIVING.
> I take that exchange any day.


Dear Ingried,

Why are you still here...it may be off topic...just following up on your statement that you would move to Sweden "any day."

Please answer this question...your "gang" may want to join you.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Northernrobin said:


> You do know, don't you, that we could afford health care for all, if we had not thrown billions upon billions away on these wars?....that is the real source of our economic woes.


I am with 100%. Why didn't Obama bring all the troops home at the moment he took office...all that was stopping him was his own desire to do it.....but he did nothing. He stated he wanted healthcare for all...enjoyed a plurality in Congress...all he had to do was to pass the legislation...but as has been said he did nothing. Why oh why?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My post about care I received in France was just meant as an anecdote--just my experience with a European healthcare system for which we paid our taxes and no "health insurance preniums." Can't we share our experiences?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Please do and let me know. It is very difficult to change the Constitution.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The reason is easy. He wanted to be re-elected. He does nothing for the country that does not benefit him. He waits until the election. 

That is the view of him from other countries.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Let me reword. He does not change the constitution. He ignores it and does what he wants. He has done this many times. 

There was a hugh uproar a couple of weeks ago about this.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, that's not it. But, he has done it several (many) times.

He does not work with people.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I just read yesterday's Wall Street Journal artical titled:
"The Latest News on Tax Fairness"

Google it if you can. July 23rd. It talks all about Obama and his rhetoric and how people who make more money really do pay more taxes. People with lower income pay far less. Also, it talks about how higher incomes get tax breaks. Well, guess what, so do lower incomes.

It give facts.

Hope you find it. Obama must go.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I just googled the article and found it. Google: Wall Street Journal The latest News on Tax Fairness

You will see how Obama works in this article.

Obama loves money and is very rich, too.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Please do and let me know. It is very difficult to change the Constitution.
> ...


joey, thank goodness this is a treaty and would need to be approved by 2/3 of the Senate in order to be passed. I don't think they would have enough votes, but just to make sure, it's another reason we need to clean (not just the White) house in November.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

LillyK said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > The topic of this thread was funding healthcare. The administration has been very transparent that the bill will be paid for by cuts in the Department of Defense ($608B) and Medicare ($500B). Just those cuts alone are going to make minimally upwards of 500M people losing jobs over the time until Obamacare is in full effect. In 2012, 87,000 non military workers have or will have lost their jobs over 80 military sites. The 2013 Defense Budget has not been finalized.
> ...


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Arley said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > grammaollie said:
> ...


Dear,
Liily
What numbers did you get?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you for saying clean out the White House. They need to go.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Northernrobin

You are so on target. Wars and special interests have been draining us.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron

Your efforts to explain things to some are fruitless unfortunately.

They will never understand what straight thinking, well informed People are saying because these Folks have exhausted their reservoir
of knowledge long ago and really have no intentions on
stimulating their brain cells to learn something new.

I count my blessings each and every day to have had an
excellent education and the opportunity to study and live in different Countries.
I came here to learn and learn I did. Still much to absorb but I am working on it on a regular basis.


----------



## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

On my original post I was concerned about this RE tax bill which is why I made the post. Being a RE investor myself it did concern me. Early on, a post was made explaining the bill and it was nothing like the propaganda that was sent to me. It made it clear to me that you must educate yourself before making wild claims and accusations. No one can debate without having information. If they do, it only leads to crazy talk.

Here's the link, which starts out with some of the mis-information that's going around, then states the actual provisions of the legislation.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/realestate.asp


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > There is an interesting site progessives can go to now. The other chat cafes have been closed. But they have opened a new forum that they can erased the conservationss and call the conservative names. LittlyK and Engried are the leaders if anyone is interested in it. Very elite.
> ...


It's a very special place where Rachel Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Matthews, who still gets a quiver when Obama speaks, and all the liberal alphabet stations, not to mention the comedians that think they know all, all reside. Oi weh, thinking people are taking what comedians have to say as factual. Really boggles the mind.


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Arley said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Ask4j
> ...


Please note my name is included with a statement I did not make and please drop it--this conversation will just go no where.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Arley

Is there anything even simple that you understand?
Holy Cow are you dense.
Perhaps it your you age - I hope and nothing else.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


soloweygirl

Everything boggles your mind, we know, you do not need to underline that.
Go to Faux Entertainment that is your speed no doubt.


----------



## Arley (Jul 20, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Arley
> 
> Is there anything even simple that you understand?
> Holy Cow are you dense.
> Perhaps it your you age - I hope and nothing else.


Dear Ingried,
Once again name calling and insults...how did you miss the message that 
SMEARING tactic is not acceptable to most of the KPer on this threat as well as Admin. Lilly has been so egregious that it has even been suggestioned she be 
given a one month suspension...possibly more...your name also been mentioned along with Lilly 's...you may want to stay in your safe haven that been established for your gang...but even there you must speak politely about your fellow KPers.

Do you have a comment reference the topic of this thread?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

What uproar? Please explain. I have no idea how he skirted the constitution and just what he did. I am always willing to learn.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He decided (please forgive, I forgot what it was but it was recent and I'll come up with it). He was voted down, but somehow it went through. He got his way by just ignoring his checks and balances.
> 
> I am sorry, but I cannot remember what it was. I'll keep thinking. It was written in the Wall Street Journal. Big article.
> 
> ...


No big surprise there. Any time proof is asked for, nobody on the right has it. Obama is a constitutional law scholar. I'm sure he knows what he can and cannot do according to the law of the land. Your answer is so typical of someone who speaks only hearsay. "A Whole Bunch of Things" does'nt cover it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

If you google Obama Constitution you will see all kinds of articles on this topic. There are too many.

See for yourself.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> What uproar? Please explain. I have no idea how he skirted the constitution and just what he did. I am always willing to learn.


There was a witch hunt started by a republican congressman named Issa. He wanted to imprison the Attorney General of the US for withholding documents on a gun walking tracking scheme that was started in the Bush admin. Certain documents were not turned over to the witch hunters because ATF officers undercover id's would have been exposed. Plus the Dept of Justice doesn't really don't have to cowtow to congress. It turned out to be a big to do over nothing. Just another Republican congressman trying to make waves during an election year. Like Michele Bachmann who somehow was appointed to an intelligence (oxymoron there) committee. She is saying that the halls of Washington are infiltrated with members of the Muslim Brotherhood She also named Hilary Clinton's aide as being affilliated with this group. 
Her own party members are saying enough is enough. John Boehner, Speaker of the House, said that her (Bachmann's ) statements are dangerous. John McCain in a 20 min stint in the Senate really slapped her around and more of her party is speaking against her. Now, why all of this nonsense on her part?
Publicity. This woman has put a family's lives in danger for publicity.Clinton's aide and her family have been receiving death threats and now require 24 hour police protection.
Nancy Pelosi isn't a threat anymore to Bachmann so she goes after the next woman with higher office, Hilary Clinton.
What bothers me about all of this is that intelligence is supposed to be top secret and here is this dunderhead running around stirring up fear as usual, but cannot answer any of the questions asked of her concerning the Muslim Brotherhood because itis classified info. Just another way far right wing nut making waves in the election year.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> If you google Obama Constitution you will see all kinds of articles on this topic. There are too many.
> 
> See for yourself.


Ah ,yes there may be, but how many are true and not some right wing conspiracy theory? After viewing the first 3 pages, 
all of that info is coming from blogs of Obama haters, and far right wing sites. This is no personal slam to you Lucy, just being observant.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The biggest problem some Folks have is to sort out Facts from Lies.
Don't we see the truth being twisted on a daily basis and paid for with big money? That is why some "dear" People think it must be the truth.
In addition some Folks have only one Radio and one TV Station to listen to and watch.
All other knobs are dysfunctional.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There are NY Times articles. I'm not talking about blogs. You can find them. Pick the legitimate ones.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I understand. How can you know what is truth and what is a lie. But, Obama is doing the same thing. His ad campaigns are not true. So, what is one to do? 

There needs to be a change in gov't. Obama needs to go.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I understand. How can you know what is truth and what is a lie. But, Obama is doing the same thing. His ad campaigns are not true. So, what is one to do?
> 
> There needs to be a change in gov't. Obama needs to go.


Do you honestly think that Wilard Romney is telling the truth? I really wished the repubs would have picked a more formidable and honest candidate. This man flip flops so much I cant see where he stands on any issues. And he never answers a question. He side steps around the issues and just goes on slamming President Obama. That's his campaign?
As far as a change goes, why not the 112th Congress who has blocked this president at every turn on anything he wants to accomplish? I really think the blame is being misplaced.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


It boggles my mind that you think we depend on comediens to supply our knowledge. But it is a blissful place where idiocy is left at the door before entering, where we can exchange ideas on how we contribute to these upcoming elections. Actually, it's a really awesome place :-D


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Arley said:


> Northernrobin said:
> 
> 
> > You do know, don't you, that we could afford health care for all, if we had not thrown billions upon billions away on these wars?....that is the real source of our economic woes.
> ...


Obama stated that he would bring our troops home from Iraq.
Not Afghanistan>


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Sorry to say, I don't think he is well-liked. This whole country is based on capitalism. Why shouldn't he make money. So what. You can too, if you wanted. People who are not as rich are simply jealous. Let them make money, too. Good for Romney. That is the American way.
> 
> Do you think Obama is poor??? He is loaded.


Lucy, no one is stating that we don't want people to make money. Of course we all have to make money just to live. But do you think it smart that a presidential candidate will not hand over his tax forms? If there was nothing to hide he would turn them over. And do you think it sets a good example to hide money in accounts around the world to not pay taxes on it?
We need taxes. we need them to support our infrastructure, our armed forces, our schools etc. My taxes were at 30% and Romney was at 15%. Do you see a fairness there? Romney has invested his money in businesses overseas, not here at home. He has outsourced more jobs than he has created.
Of course the Obamas have money.Michelle is a very good lawyer and so was he when he was elected senator of Illinois.
Ifyou listen to him on this matter you will hear him say that he doesn't need the Bush tax breaks.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't think that were any good candidates out there in the first place. 
Obama slams Romney, too. 
In my mind, if Obama was a good leader, he wouldn't be having the trouble he is having. I think there is more going on behind the scenes. He is no angel. 

I defend Romney not because he is a great man. I only do it because we need a change in government. Obama needs to go. Then maybe Romney needs to go.

Our country is suffering too much.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

grammaollie said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Who is smearing now?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Who is the source for saying Romney has money overseas? Back in the time he was outsourcing, everyone was doing it. Obama didn't because he was a lawyer. Plus, I think many Americans don't want to do the grunt work. So, they went elsewhere.

Obama has his skeletons, too. He's not lilly white. I'd like to see a change in gov. Then if Romney fails, he needs to go.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No body is winning here. Obama is changing our constitution. Neither candidate is great. Obama is just worse.
> 
> I must end this because it is just too much. I am not winning anything!
> 
> We will be in worse shape with Obama.


Lucy Obama cannot change the constitution! The Supremes have to do that. Maybe he can pull out his magic wand and poof it's changed? Doesn't happen that way.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Why does Obama have to go? What do you expect a President to do? What about the Congress, the House of Representatives who have done nothing but block any kind of legislation or jobs programs?

Can a President do it on his own? What would you have liked him to do? What do you want Romney to do?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Revan said:


> grammaollie said:
> 
> 
> > Revan said:
> ...


The correct words should have been 'you mst be a member of the tea party." Teabagger has a whole different meaning and I know you know what it is.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't like the health care business. I have worked hard for my coverage (recently retired) and I don't want the gov't taking over. I know our health care system isn't working, but it is worse with gov't getting involved. The system needs change, but not Obama's way.

Next, I feel that Obama is not doing what positive to get our country on its feet. Romney, as a businessman might be able to do this. 

Next, from all my readings, I don't trust Obama. My source is the Wall Street Journal. Lots of things said there. 

I also believe that I don't know everything. That really who knows the truth. I feel as if I am as unknowledgeable as anyone else. 

But, I am very upset about my health care changing. I have friends involved overseas (Britain) with socialized medicine and they just shake their heads at how bad it is. 
I have also talked to doctors. They say that they want their patients to have much needed test and they are denied right now because of what has already been put in place by Obama. Doctors are very upset and frustrated over providing good care.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

A Swiss Bank Account is to best proof of Tax evasion.
Case closed.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Who said that? Where did that idea come from?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Why does Obama have to go? What do you expect a President to do? What about the Congress, the House of Representatives who have done nothing but block any kind of legislation or jobs programs?
> 
> Can a President do it on his own? What would you have liked him to do? What do you want Romney to do?


The House has passed over 30 economic/ stimulus /jobs bills. They are sitting dead in the water in the Democrat controlled Senate.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I read with great interest statements about having Friends in
Countries with Health Care which covers everybody and how those Citizens complain.
Really? I have come upon such People frequently in person
and have been pushing them to give me direct information in order to confirm and so to assist with dire needs. All disappears at that point.
Nothing but inventions.
I have direct access to Health Care Systems in a number of Countries and am sad to have to report, that ours is a shame
and in dire need of revision as ACA finally is.
It is getting very old and growing Mold listening to the same old fabricated stories being told against ACA.

As to a businessman doing a good job. Sure!!!!! Both Father and Son Bush were big business Man und as far as I know never
bankrupted any businesses (as Bain did) or caused layoffs. What does that tell us clearly?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

First, my friend is the person who coordinates hosptial and patient discharge. So, she is the one directly involved with the person's care in England. She has told me stories that are unbelievable. She wanted to actually take a patient home to her house so she could die, but knew it was not the right thing. It was a terrible story. The hospital wanted the patient out. So my source is not anecdotal. It is first hand knowledge.

I am sorry, but I just don't like what is happening here.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

P.S.

As I have said, Romney was not at Bain at the time he was being accused of all his wrongdoing. He was working with the Olympics. That is all rubbish.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyone figured out yet where Willard stands on Pro-Life/
Pro-Choice?

If anyone is clear on that, tell HIM because he has not decided yet.

And that is just one issue.

Everything he ever stated has been overturned by him
or is still in need of clarification. Wonder who is really running
and who will be on the ballot in November for the GOP.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He is prolife. He was a minister or something and that was what he supported.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> First, my friend is the person who coordinates hosptial and patient discharge. So, she is the one directly involved with the person's care in England. She has told me stories that are unbelievable. She wanted to actually take a patient home to her house so she could die, but knew it was not the right thing. It was a terrible story. The hospital wanted the patient out. So my source is not anecdotal. It is first hand knowledge.
> 
> I am sorry, but I just don't like what is happening here.


There are times when a Hospital is no longer the place for a
dying to stay. But I assure you that there are choices. either a Patient can go to a Palliative Care Facility or Home. The Hospital is for Patients to get well, not to die when death is near.
That is something we have actually learned from the Europeans.
They have been way ahead of us with end of Life Care Facilities and Rehab. Places.

I can also report that here in the USA we have Hospitals who
are notorious for
transporting Patients who are near death elsewhere just to keep their Death Statistics low.

No system is ever perfect but ours so far has been outrageous.
ACA is just the beginning to a better tomorrow for all of us.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This person was not being transported anywhere where she could get help. This is first hand experience.

Yes, we need help, but not Obama's way.

Sorry.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He is prolife. He was a minister or something and that was what he supported.


When he was running for Governor In Mass. in 1994 he was pro life. You can youtube it.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > A Swiss Bank Account is to best proof of Tax evasion.
> ...


I'm sure that if there were any issues with Romney's taxes the IRS would have had him on the carpet long ago. He's released what he needs to: he was vetted in 2008 when he ran. If I were him, I'd tell Obama, "I'll release one additional year of my returns for each of the following: your records from high school, Occidental, Harvard, your SS info (from Connecticut?????) your passport records, and on and on."
That should shut some people up.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > He is prolife. He was a minister or something and that was what he supported.
> ...


I saw last Night the many turns Romney has taken on this issue since he first ran for Governor. Hard to keep up with this Man. I think that by now he himself does not know where he stands on anything.


----------



## ragdoll03 (Sep 17, 2011)

Bydie said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Bydie, right on the spot!

For you lefties Romney has not officially been nominated so he does not have to show anything to anyone. There are many questions concerning our now so called president. He and his rat pack want Romney to show whatever they feel should be shown as a way in trying to get back but get back at what? It is so childish. As stated Romney is not nominated yet. Many of us do not understand what Obama does not understand of not coming forward with his papers. He is the one that was elected.

Obama sure slams Romney in anyway possible (that he thinks). It is not working. As far as the poles, Romney is ahead of O in many categories. O does not like that. He should have thought of that before he pulled so many wrong doings (our soldiers not home, healthcare, taxes etc).

Northwoods Gal: 112th Congress to change things? The ones that blocked O on every turn of what he wanted to accomplish? He does not have any accomplishments. All he is causing is pure misery for all of us. Then there are 32 bills sitting by Reid. Something is off kilter.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring. 

As for being well liked around the world, that's dillusional. He's looked up as a weak, ineffectual putz. I'm sure Bashar al-Assad, Putin, Achmedinijah (sp), China, No. Korea and on and on are just shaking in their boots when he stands before the podium. IF he's liked it's only because he provides comic relief and is looked upon as the court jester.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring.
> 
> As for being well liked around the world, that's dillusional. He's looked up as a weak, ineffectual putz. I'm sure Bashar al-Assad, Putin, Achmedinijah (sp), China, No. Korea and on and on are just shaking in their boots when he stands before the podium. IF he's liked it's only because he provides comic relief and is looked upon as the court jester.


Bydie
Did you not say that your husband is or was Military?
What was he involved in? Killings as I remember the conflict he
was part of.
You may not like he Person in the White House as our President but I abhor your disrespect for the Office.

President Obama is extremely well liked around the World and this is the thorn in your side after Bush.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring.
> ...


Very proudly, yes. He was never involved in INTENSIONALLY killing innocent civilians. Nor were those in command.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > He is prolife. He was a minister or something and that was what he supported.
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal
> 
> "We need taxes. we need them to support our infrastructure, our armed forces, our schools etc. My taxes were at 30% and Romney was at 15%."
> 
> If your Federal effective tax rate is 30% you are making some big money probably over $200,000. If you are making enough to pay 30% you are close to Obama's Rich people. He wants to raise your taxes.(IRS Pub 17).


Not even close!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


You are kidding right? Who then killed all the Civilians?
They killed themselves?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


On the money they could find, you mean?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal
Let's face it, 
t is tough to have an intelligent conversation with People
who have no clue what they are talking about.

Swiss Account and reporting Interest on their Taxes?
I shall laugh about this for days to come. This is one for the
Comedians.
A fun way to end the day at least.

Oi weh, oi weh, oi weh.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Oh, and I forgot to add that even the Clintons think that he's a fool!


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Northwoods Gal
> Let's face it,
> t is tough to have an intelligent conversation with People
> who have no clue what they are talking about.
> ...


And with that, the discussion is ended???? How convenient!


----------



## ragdoll03 (Sep 17, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring.
> 
> As for being well liked around the world, that's dillusional. He's looked up as a weak, ineffectual putz. I'm sure Bashar al-Assad, Putin, Achmedinijah (sp), China, No. Korea and on and on are just shaking in their boots when he stands before the podium. IF he's liked it's only because he provides comic relief and is looked upon as the court jester.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## ragdoll03 (Sep 17, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring.
> 
> As for being well liked around the world, that's dillusional. He's looked up as a weak, ineffectual putz. I'm sure Bashar al-Assad, Putin, Achmedinijah (sp), China, No. Korea and on and on are just shaking in their boots when he stands before the podium. IF he's liked it's only because he provides comic relief and is looked upon as the court jester.


Bydie, Isn't this what you are talking about? It is a joke!

I am proud that our President, President Obama, is highly intelligent, a Scholar, decent, humane, fair and caring and
well liked around the Globe so unlike his Predecessor.

Ingried


----------



## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

ragdoll03 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Don't remember who, but someone on this thread mentioned that Obama was "decent, humane, fair and caring". You're joking, right? He calls waterboarding "inhumane" and then uses drones to annhilate innocent women and children in Afghanistan? That's a bizarre definition of decent, humane, fair and caring.
> ...


then you have little knowledge of the rest of the wold


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Oh, and I forgot to add that even the Clintons think that he's a fool!


And you know this how? Like it or not he is your President and mine. Did Hilary email you or something? Because I know tht Bill speaks very highly of him.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Bydie
Did you not say that your husband is or was Military?
What was he involved in? Killings as I remember the conflict he
was part of.>

Please do not throw the barb back at me. We were discussing how fair, kind, humane, yada yada the president is. Kindly explain how he can possibly justify the unmanned drone strikes on innocent civilians in Afghanistan.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Not Jobs Bills............same old stuff from Gop......cut taxes on the wealthy/job creators and jobs will flow like water. Yeah sure.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Leave


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

It is the wealthy that supply jobs to everyone. Everyone has every opportunity in this country to make money and be who they want to be. That is the American way. Obama wants to take it away.

I repeat, the wealthy pay more taxes. Yes, there are loopholes, but the poor have loopholes, too. 

To say that the wealthy pay less tax is an Obama tactic.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

How do the wealthy supply jobs?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The wealthy have closed up large factories resulting in many now for years unemployed and it is Mom and Pop Stores and Food chaines keeping People employed as best they can.

As to large Dept. Stores, go shopping and try to find someone to assist you. They figure they are saving by having fewer Employees vs. shoplifting. That is how Capitalists look at things.
People no longer matter. Very short term outlook and very unhealthy for the Country.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Think about it. Do poor people supply jobs? The wealthy are in position to hire just about anyone. For anything. If they have a business, they hire. If they need lawncare, housekeeping, etc. they hire. It goes on and on. Poor people don't hire for services, jobs in business, etc.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Times are tough for anyone. People are not working, so services are not there.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course factories, businesses have closed up. Those people are loosing money:

They cannot afford to hire! 

That is my point. People with money hire. When they loose money they cannot hire. So, people are laid off. It is just common sense.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I get a kick out of People who always answer and never really say anything.
I guess they just have lived in a World so different from where I have walked.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> How do the wealthy supply jobs?


rocky1991
My question as well.
However they do create jobs abroad but not here any longer.
I guess that is good enough for some People. 
I care about MY PEOPLE first and then take care of others.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I know people who are creating jobs here and helping Americans. They are the ones with money. I do my own housekeeping because I cannot afford to hire someone. I know people who have all kinds of services for their home. They have the money to hire. 

Many Americans don't want to do the grunt work. So it is farmed out to other countries.

What I say is basic. I am offended by the person who said I was not saying anything. I guess you don't understand.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know if you are asking me what I am saying, but I'll answer.
I guess I hear a lot of people condemning rich people. It bothers me because American is based on capitalism. If you want to make money, start a business, be what you want to be, you can do it. Many rich people come from nothing and work their way up. Rich people hire. Why should they be condemned? If you don't like the capitalist system, then this country is not for you. Not all rich people are bad people. 

JFK was rich. He was idolized back in his day not condemned. Having money has nothing to do with being a good president or not.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Then why aren't jobs being created? They are sitting on their money. trillions of it. The middle class is the job creator. Under attack by the Republicans, tax the poor and middle class and give tax breaks to the wealthy. How does that make sense? Are the wealthy hiring? What jobs are available?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Jobs aren't being created because everyone is affected. People are scared and holding on to their money. Goods and services are not being used.

Jobs are not made my the middle class. They can't afford to provide jobs!
Also, the rich are taxed more than other classes. As I said before, they have loopholes and so do the poor! The rich pay more taxes than the poor and middle class.

Taxes are paid on a sliding scale. The more money you make, the more you pay in taxes. If anyone says differently, it just isn't true! Read the Wall Street Journal - Monday issue. It has all the facts about taxes and who is paying. The rich pay more tax!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

It is actually about supply and demand. The middle class can not afford to buy...no demand. No demand, no jobs. Why create jobs when there is no demand?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This is correct. Middle class doesn't buy, business let staff go and it is a vicious cycle.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

If you google Wall Street Journal The Latest News on Tax Fairness you should find the article that states the rich pay more in taxes. This article explains it all.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The rich pay more because they make/have more. The really really rich don't make their money in salary or wages like most people; they sit there and watch their money grow. They pay capital gains taxes. When you look at percentages of taxes paid, it's a different story. To say that the poor have "loopholes" is nonsense. They don't have much of an income to tax.The tax burden is on the middle and lower economic classes.
About jobs: rich people don't create the jobs, do they? Where are they? We're not talking about jobs like serving the wealthy--like maid service, gardening, etc. Where are the good jobs that enable people with families to make it in this life. The philosophy of work hard and you get ahead is gone. Just my opinion.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Obviously Math and Language are hard subjects to understand.

Why do I need to write a story when a sentence will do?
Why are percentages so hard to figure out for some?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<We were discussing how fair, kind, humane, yada yada Obama is. Kindly explain how he can possibly justify the unmanned drone strikes on innocent civilians in Afghanistan.>

I still haven't gotten a response.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course the rich creat jobs. A gardener, housekeeper, etc. are jobs. And they can make good money. Someone who owns a business needs to hire workers.

The rich work. Of course they do. That is how most got their wealth! Of course, some are retired and don't work any more. The rich are not idle people!

There are loopholes for poor people, too. Let's take away their loopholes too! Yes! Fair is fair.

Please read the article that I suggested.

This is all common sense.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The President

is intelligent, fair, humane, kind, caring and a Diplomat so unlike this Predecessor.

President Obama ended the War in Iraq to the shagrin of some Republicans, is ending the War in a proper manner in Afghanistan
and ended the Life of not only Osama Bin Laden but 22 of his
Troopers.

I applaud the Commander in Chief and so do just about all foreign Leaders.

I wonder a great deal why some individuals who made the Military a Carrier - which unfortunately involves killing of
Innocents in time of War - are so distant from their own Life's
involvements in terrible conflicts but want to point to others
who take less gruesome ways to solve problems.
Puzzling to say the least.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

I don't believe they are targeted......unfortunately war is not fair at all.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Do you actually believe that menial jobs are the way to go?
That's all we should aspire to? Sounds like Newt and janitorial jobs for poor children. Your level of aspiration must be very low.
Is clipping stock coupons work? Gee must be tough work.LMAO


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

You said some nice things about Obama. I look at him as incompetent, politically manipulative, and does not have my best interests at heart


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Well the wealthy do employ and love bad times. They let their
longtime help go who was paid $ 25.oo/hr and hire a poor Sucker to do the same work for $ 15.oo and you should hear how proud they are of such dealings.

If someone has the nerv to ask for a raise, they are subject to immediate dismissal. Raises have become a dream only.
What is worse than all this is the disrespect shown to People who do the dirty Work.

Instead of two and three Gardeners, one has to take care of everything and almost has to kiss the feet of the Person handing them their pay.
That is the unkind real World these days.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Gee, I know people who treat their help very well. They are nice to them. Service people make good money. 

I absolutely don't know what you are talking about. Letting people go and all that. If people can't afford it (i.e. the economy has effected them and they do not have the money) of course they must let people go. Situations change and services are not needed. I had to have help for my elderly father. When he died, I did not need elder care in the house any more. What would you prefer - to keep elder care in the house when there are no elderly? Let the person just hang out?

I feel your perspective has nothing to do with reality.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right. Everyone should pay taxes based on a sliding scale according to their income.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you for the article.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Northwoods Gal said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


Tsk, Tsk, if only you would keep your word. Big sigh.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<I wonder a great deal why some individuals who made the Military a Carrier - which unfortunately involves killing of
Innocents in time of War - are so distant from their own Life's
involvements in terrible conflicts but want to point to others
who take less gruesome ways to solve problems.

HUH?

Obama touts the moral high road but he's a hypocrit. 

It is not necessary to defend the military or those who choose it as a career. It would be wonderful if the world were full of kind hearted, well meaning, lovable and "fair" leaders and figureheads. Unfortunately there are many Jerry Sanduskys, Hitlers, Bashar Al-Assads, Sadam Husseins and Maos in the world. 

Who does the playground bully pick on? Not the fellow who stands 6 inches taller and weighs 20 lbs. more. He picks on the weak, the vulnerable, and the compromised. The only way to make sure the bully is not successful is to be vigilant, informed, bigger and better. Obama has shoved us into the former category.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Michelle Bachmann did not say the the"halls of Congress were being infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood". She was questioning the security clearance given to known associates of the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist organizations. Hillary Clinton's aide's late father and brother are members of the Muslim Brotherhood and her mother a member of the Muslim Sisterhood. Bachmann was questioning the aide's receiving her level of security clearance due to the associations of members of her family. 

Secretary Clinton's intervention allowed Muslim Brotherhood leader Tariq Ramaden to enter the US engaging in "civilized jihad", the recruitment, indoctrination and fundraising, etc ., for terrorist groups. Clinton's waiver of Congressional restrictions allowed 170M in US foreign aid to the terrorist organizations Humas and Fatah. Source NYT

It seems political correctness is saying Bachmann is wrong, the facts are saying otherwise. 530 out of 535 Congressmen and women are unwilling to investigate the claims.

There is also the matter of the Muslim Brotherhood member that recently was allowed a meeting with the National Security Council, where he requested the release of the mastermind of the 1993 World Trade Center bombing. Why was this man allowed into our country at all? Come on people, there is a real problem going on and Michelle Bachmann is doing her job, protecting the people while the other 530 sit back on their duffs and do nothing because it isn't politically correct.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

WSJ about as far Right as you can get. Do some fact checking


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky 1991

The right is full of nothing but cliff hangers. One more step to the right and they are falling off of this Planet.

Facts is a very foreign word to them.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Totally Right Wing BS. Try opening you mind to facts that aren't slanted i just one direction


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Not my post


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

No where has it been proven the Huma's father was a Member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Please stop listening to Fox News, it is an entertainment station.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Stupid is as stupid does. Your reasoning or lack there of is mind numbing.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Neither one......do u have so little faith in the American vetting system? Please read real facts.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > A Swiss Bank Account is to best proof of Tax evasion.
> ...


You are basing your answer on one big IF


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Of course factories, businesses have closed up. Those people are loosing money:
> 
> They cannot afford to hire!
> 
> That is my point. People with money hire. When they loose money they cannot hire. So, people are laid off. It is just common sense.


How naive! Big businesses closed down factories because in third world countries, they can pay a pittance of what they would pay an employee here, plus no benefits. It's just common sense.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Things are closing down because no one is purchasing.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Amazing how some People always grab any misinformation and with great pride pass it on.

Reminds me of the not so smart Kids in School always copying
even though they should have learned that the Person from which they copied gave them the wrong information again and again. Slow learners I guess.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Michelle Bachmann did not say the the"halls of Congress were being infiltrated by the Muslim Brotherhood". She was questioning the security clearance given to known associates of the Muslim Brotherhood and other terrorist organizations. Hillary Clinton's aide's late father and brother are members of the Muslim Brotherhood and her mother a member of the Muslim Sisterhood. Bachmann was questioning the aide's receiving her level of security clearance due to the associations of members of her family.
> 
> Secretary Clinton's intervention allowed Muslim Brotherhood leader Tariq Ramaden to enter the US engaging in "civilized jihad", the recruitment, indoctrination and fundraising, etc ., for terrorist groups. Clinton's waiver of Congressional restrictions allowed 170M in US foreign aid to the terrorist organizations Humas and Fatah. Source NYT
> 
> ...


You are right, sloweygirl. Bachmann did not say that the halls of Congress were infiltrated nor did I say she said that. The quote was "The halls of Washington are filled with infiltrators ........
I won't comment any further on your reply because it is just to far out there. Bachmann couldn't find her mind with a search warrant.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


He released SOME tax returns, not all .


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

5 years of the SOS same old stuff.

Well I take that back. A number of Ruppert Murdocks Employees have been indicted in the UK because of the hacking.
More to come.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


There is a BIG difference between a college record and TAX returns. MOST people care about the degree and of course, you should know that in order to receive a degree, one must have the grades!!!!! Bush did not do well in college.

Romney pays less taxes than most Americans. He has hidden accounts that he refuses to talk about. You who do not like the truth being told will never realize that politicians, Republican or Democract are playing ALL OF US like puppets.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

I have hope in the knowledge that between progressives' push for abortion and gay marriage, it won't be long before they self-extinct and most of the country's problems will be solved.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I have hope in the knowledge that between progressives' push for abortion and gay marriage, it won't be long before they self-extinct and most of the country's problems will be solved.


Um abortion is already legal and has been since 1974. We dont push for abortion, we push for choice.
Since, by definition, homosexuals don't reproduce , then where are they all coming from? 
Since you are obviuosly a heterosexual, when did you decide to become one?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


And the hits just keep on coming...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

How naive! Self-extinct?
All the problems could be solved if all the liberals in the country would "self-extinct?" That's a good one!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Things are closing down because no one is purchasing.


Things are closing down because of the ripple effect of outsourcing. No jobs here, no money to spend here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > No where has it been proven the Huma's father was a Member of the Muslim Brotherhood. Please stop listening to Fox News, it is an entertainment station.
> ...


You THINK it was her mother? Just like Bachmann. no proof.


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

Sowell's latest piece regarding the fact that most mainstream media today largely practices yellow journalism is spot on. Given too few Americans think deeply or critically about things any longer given their hectic schedules (TV shows to watch you know) this is dangerous.

Too many people in the media cannot seem to tell the difference between reporting the news and creating propaganda.
NBC News ...apparently could not resist doctoring the transcript of the conversation between George Zimmerman and the police after the Trayvon Martin shooting. Now ABC News took the fact that the man arrested for the shooting in Colorado was named James Holmes to broadcast to the world the fact that there is a James Holmes who is a member of the Tea Party in Colorado.
The fact has since come out that these are two different men, one in his 20s and the other in his 50s. But corrections never catch up with irresponsible news broadcasts. The James Holmes who belongs to the Tea Party has been deluged with phone calls. I hope he sues ABC News for every dime they have.
This is not the first time that the mainstream media have tried to create a link between conservatives and violence. Years ago, the Oklahoma City bombing was blamed on Rush Limbaugh, despite the absence of any evidence that the bomber was inspired by Rush Limbaugh.
Similar things have happened repeatedly, going all the way back to the assassination of President John F. Kennedy, which was blamed on a hostile right-wing atmosphere in Dallas, even though the assassin had a long history of being on the far left fringe.

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But, where the shoe is on the other foot  as when the Unabomber had a much marked-up copy of an environmentalist book by Al Gore  the media heard no evil, saw no evil and spoke no evil. If people in the media cannot decide whether they are in the business of reporting news or manufacturing propaganda, it is all the more important that the public understand that difference, and choose their news sources accordingly.
As for gun control advocates, I have no hope whatever that any facts whatever will make the slightest dent in their thinking  or lack of thinking. New York's Mayor Bloomberg and CNN's Piers Morgan were on the air within hours of the shooting, pushing the case for gun control laws.
You might never know, from what they and other gun control advocates have said, that there is a mountain of evidence that gun control laws not only fail to control guns but are often counterproductive. However, for those other people who still think facts matter, it is worth presenting some of those facts.
Do countries with strong gun control laws have lower murder rates? Only if you cherry-pick the data.
Britain is a country with stronger gun control laws than the United States, and lower murder rates. But Mexico, Russia and Brazil are also countries with stronger gun control laws than the United States  and their murder rates are much higher than ours. Israel and Switzerland have even higher rates of gun ownership than the United States, and much lower murder rates than ours.
Even the British example does not stand up very well under scrutiny. The murder rate in New York has been several times that in London for more than two centuries  and, for most of that time, neither place had strong gun control laws. New York had strong gun control laws years before London did, but New York still had several times the murder rate of London.
It was in the later decades of the 20th century that the British government clamped down with severe gun control laws, disarming virtually the entire law-abiding citizenry. Gun crimes, including murder, rose as the public was disarmed.
Meanwhile, murder rates in the United States declined during the same years when murder rates in Britain were rising, which were also years when Americans were buying millions more guns per year.
The real problem, both in discussions of mass shootings and in discussions of gun control, is that too many people are too committed to a vision to allow mere facts to interfere with their beliefs, and the sense of superiority that those beliefs give them.
Any discussion of facts is futile when directed at such people. All anyone can do is warn others about the propaganda.


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## ksojerio (Aug 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Again I read the asinine statement about foreigners flocking to the USA for Health Care.
> Really?
> Another one of those continously circulating pieces of nonsense.


Actually, it isn't nonsense.

Have you heard the term "anchor babies"? I live in AZ, near the Mexican border. It is common practice for pregnant Mexican women, close to their delivery date, to enter the US so they can give birth in a US hospital. Having the baby in the US makes it (1) impossible to deport the parent of a minor US citizen and (2) eligible for many forms of welfare.


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

I've understood for years now where Sowell explains how egos prevent the Left from understanding simple truths and facts. A great read. 

Thomas Sowell
Socialist or Fascist
Jun 12, 2012
It bothers me a little when conservatives call Barack Obama a "socialist." He certainly is an enemy of the free market, and wants politicians and bureaucrats to make the fundamental decisions about the economy. But... that does not mean that he wants government ownership of the means of production, which has long been a standard definition of socialism.
What President Obama has been pushing for, and moving toward, is more insidious: government control of the economy, while leaving ownership in private hands. That way, politicians get to call the shots but, when their bright ideas lead to disaster, they can always blame those who own businesses in the private sector.
Politically, it is heads-I-win when things go right, and tails-you-lose when things go wrong. This is far preferable, from Obama's point of view, since it gives him a variety of scapegoats for all his failed policies, without having to use President Bush as a scapegoat all the time.
Government ownership of the means of production means that politicians also own the consequences of their policies, and have to face responsibility when those consequences are disastrous -- something that Barack Obama avoids like the plague.
Thus the Obama administration can arbitrarily force insurance companies to cover the children of their customers until the children are 26 years old. Obviously, this creates favorable publicity for President Obama. But if this and other government edicts cause insurance premiums to rise, then that is something that can be blamed on the "greed" of the insurance companies.
The same principle, or lack of principle, applies to many other privately owned businesses. It is a very successful political ploy that can be adapted to all sorts of situations.
One of the reasons why both pro-Obama and anti-Obama observers may be reluctant to see him as fascist is that both tend to accept the prevailing notion that fascism is on the political right, while it is obvious that Obama is on the political left.
Back in the 1920s, however, when fascism was a new political development, it was widely -- and correctly -- regarded as being on the political left. Jonah Goldberg's great book "Liberal Fascism" cites overwhelming evidence of the fascists' consistent pursuit of the goals of the left, and of the left's embrace of the fascists as one of their own during the 1920s.
Mussolini, the originator of fascism, was lionized by the left, both in Europe and in America, during the 1920s. Even Hitler, who adopted fascist ideas in the 1920s, was seen by some, including W.E.B. Du Bois, as a man of the left.
It was in the 1930s, when ugly internal and international actions by Hitler and Mussolini repelled the world, that the left distanced themselves from fascism and its Nazi offshoot -- and verbally transferred these totalitarian dictatorships to the right, saddling their opponents with these pariahs.
What socialism, fascism and other ideologies of the left have in common is an assumption that some very wise people -- like themselves -- need to take decisions out of the hands of lesser people, like the rest of us, and impose those decisions by government fiat.
The left's vision is not only a vision of the world, but also a vision of themselves, as superior beings pursuing superior ends. In the United States, however, this vision conflicts with a Constitution that begins, "We the People..."
That is why the left has for more than a century been trying to get the Constitution's limitations on government loosened or evaded by judges' new interpretations, based on notions of "a living Constitution" that will take decisions out of the hands of "We the People," and transfer those decisions to our betters.
The self-flattery of the vision of the left also gives its true believers a huge ego stake in that vision, which means that mere facts are unlikely to make them reconsider, regardless of what evidence piles up against the vision of the left, and regardless of its disastrous consequences.
Only our own awareness of the huge stakes involved can save us from the rampaging presumptions of our betters, whether they are called socialists or fascists. So long as we buy their heady rhetoric, we are selling our birthright of freedom.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I can't reproduce any longer, too old. I guess anything I do with DH is unnatural.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Talking to people who have their head up the Right Wing Political Arse, is mind boggling. How many times does Obama have to prove he is an American. Even if his father was Kenyan, his mother was a citizen. That makes him a citizen. I suppose you think his birth certificate is fraudulent, no use trying to explain anything to you. Facts confuse small minds.


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

The below quote is from T.S. Eliot and sums up many of the democratic party perfectly: "Half of the harm that is done in this world is due to people who want to feel important. They don't mean to do harm -- but the harm does not interest them. Or they do not see it, or they justify it because they are absorbed in the endless struggle to think well of themselves."


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Foolish.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


So beingborn boy with female chromosomes or female born with male chromosomes has nothing to do with it? You just think tht boy or girl wakes up one day and says "gee, I am going to something UNNATURAL today? I think I will be a homosexual?" PLEASE!!!!

Science is proving otherwise by studies of this chromosome displacement. I suggest you google it and read it. Maybe it would relieve you of your predjudice


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Well said.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

ksojerio said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Again I read the asinine statement about foreigners flocking to the USA for Health Care.
> ...


I've posted this a couple of times with no response, so I'll post again. My sister who lives on the US / Canada border pays her mortgage by letting out rooms to Canadians who come to the US for medical care. I hope I don't offend any Canadians. That's not my intent and I'm not casting aspursions on the Canadian system, I just would like to know why?????


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

Again the brilliant Tom Sowell is required reading. Question, would anyone do business with a company that always changed it's policies? Is a good parent one whose rules change for short periods to achieve selfish goals? Sadly Obama and many politicians do not take their charge of upholding the Constitution seriously. Take 3 minutes and read please.

President Obama's latest political ploy -- gra...nting new "rights" out of thin air, by Executive Order, to illegal immigrants who claim that they were brought into the country when they were children -- is all too typical of his short-run approach to the country's long-run problems.
Whatever the merits or demerits of the Obama immigration policy, his Executive Order is good only as long as he remains president, which may be only a matter of months after this year's election.
People cannot plan their lives on the basis of laws that can suddenly appear, and then suddenly disappear, in less than a year. To come forward today and claim the protection of the Obama Executive Order is to declare publicly and officially that your parents entered the country illegally. How that may be viewed by some later administration is anybody's guess.
Employers likewise cannot rely on policies that may be here today and gone tomorrow, whether these are temporary tax rates designed to look good at election time or temporary immigration policies that can backfire later if employers get accused of hiring illegal immigrants.
Why hire someone, and invest time and money in training them, if you may be forced to fire them before a year has passed?
Kicking the can down the road is one of the favorite exercises in Washington. But neither in the economy nor in their personal lives can people make plans and commitments on the basis of government policies that suddenly appear and suddenly disappear.
Like so many other Obama ploys, his immigration ploy is not meant to help the country, but to help Obama. This is all about getting the Hispanic vote this November.
The principle involved -- keeping children from being hurt by actions over which they had no control -- is one already advanced by Senator Marco Rubio, who may well end up as Governor Romney's vice-presidential running mate. The Obama Executive Order, which suddenly popped up like a rabbit out of a magician's hat, steals some of Senator Rubio's thunder, so it is clever politics.
But clever politics is what has gotten this country into so much trouble, not only as regards immigration but also as regards the economy and the dangerous international situation.
When the new, and perhaps short-lived, immigration policy is looked at in terms of how it can be administered, it makes even less sense. While this policy is rationalized in terms of children, those who invoke it are likely to do so as adults.
How do you check someone's claim that he was brought into the country illegally when he was a child? If Obama gets reelected, it is very unlikely that illegal immigrants will really have to prove anything. The administration can simply choose not to enforce that provision, as so many other immigration laws are unenforced in the Obama administration.
If Obama does not get reelected, then it may not matter anyway, when his Executive Order can be gone after he is gone.
Ultimately, it does not matter what immigration policy this country has, if it cannot control its own borders. Whoever wants to come, and who has the chutzpah, will come. And the fact that they come across the Mexican border does not mean that they are all Mexicans. They can just as easily be terrorists from the Middle East.
Only after the border is controlled can any immigration policy matter be seriously considered, and options weighed through the normal Constitutional process of Congressional hearings, debate and legislation, rather than by Presidential short-cuts.
Not only is border control fundamental, what is also fundamental is the principle that immigration policy does not exist to accommodate foreigners but to protect Americans -- and the American culture that has made this the world's richest, freest and most powerful nation for more than a century.
No nation can absorb unlimited numbers of people from another culture without jeopardizing its own culture. In the 19th and early 20th century, America could absorb millions of immigrants who came here to become Americans. But the situation is entirely different today, when group separatism, resentment and polarization are being promoted by both the education system and politicians.
June 18 ---In case you missed it, factcheck.org destroyed Obama regarding his economic speech last week. The misrepresentations (that's known as lies to the less politically correct or to parents when dealing with their children) were deep and numerous. What a surprise! He knows the state run media will give him coverage.
· .
-People, the executive order about immigration that Obama signed is a very dangerous trend. Don't be naïve and assume that if you agree with it or like Obama this is a good thing. Why the need for a Congress if he can sign anything he desires to what is effectively a law by himself? When usurping power that was not intended by our Constitution it will lead ugliness.

If you want real statistics read John Lott's exhaustive study entitled More Guns, Less Crime. You might have a repulsion of guns personally, but facts are facts. Unless of course you are so engrossed in your liberal thinking you won't think honestly on a subject.
---Obama's native tongue is deceit. How else to explain his blatant lie in his silly, rambling speech yesterday when he said he wants a smaller government. Simply can't be defended. He also constantly switches the words "debt" and "deficit" as if they have the same meaning. Of course when your base isn't even capable of understanding the differences in words with century long definitions it really doesn't matter.

.Unemployment numbers just out and they again are getting worse, not better. Obama's plan - more of the same - more taxes, more debt, more government workers, more unions, more regulations, more demonizing of the free market, more blaming Europe and of course more blaming Bush. 2LikeUnlike · .
Obama is blaming Bush for the deficit now. I say "good", let him keep playing that game. His base eats it up. Fortunately there are far more independents than uneducated Obamaites. Basically, Obama is a bold face liar. A desperate, worried liar.

Okay, for those of you still undecided or who just don't think Obama is capable of properly implementing his genesis because of obstruction, not that I won't take a vote for sanity regardless of the reason, I want you to ask yourself something and think about the answer. If as Obama and all Leftist believe that government creates jobs, why the need for any free enterprise or private sector at all?...

Do not be so obtuse to think that is not what Obama desires. I will in fact agree in writing that the government can create jobs. In Stalin's Soviet Union unemployment was ZERO. Zero unemployment; it was in fact illegal to not work. So do not doubt Obama's desire to have the government create jobs. Now how beneficial those jobs are to individuals is debatable. But rest assured, the leaders always live well in Socialist regimes, I mean governments. (Sort of like Obama being able to send his daughters to any school he desires but makes it illegal for you to do so and demonizes those that desire a quality education for their kids. Can't weaken the state workers' [teachers' unions] jobs you know.)

But folks, even those who have not read any history after the great public education they received can argue that big government is designed for its individuals' benefit. The Left desires to make individuals small, very small. That is why they demonize non-group think. That is why they play class warfare and race bait as their general M.O.

Aside from the fact the Founders believed that God, yes, they confidently and comfortably claimed this, endowed individuals with certain rights is it not absolutely clear the Left's plan is a disaster? Obama had a huge hand to play for his first two years. He had control of both houses of Congress. He has had over three years and he has been a failure. And his new plan? More of the same; go in debt more. Insanity and ruinous thought, but that is their plan.

You either hold dearly that the individual is large and the government small as God intended or you believe the government should run every facet of your life and be large and you should work to help it as dictators, kings, and kind hearted socialists believe. Read your history (or watch it on TV) folks, be responsible citizens and educate yourself.

Or sit around and take the scraps the government is ready to throw you, enslaving your family and training generations that you are nothing without government. What did the Founders know anyway?.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Bmxmom -- Right on!!!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bmxmom. Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! So well said.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

It is choice we support and as to homosexuality,
many People are bisexual, often get married due to pressure, frequently have a number of Children,
get a divorce and then enter a Partnership with someone of
the same sex.
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
I see nothing wrong with that. Much better than being stuck in a miserable conventional Marriage.


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

I have a friend who had a kidney stone. Lives in the BC. It took him 3 months of pain & waiting before he could have any treatment. That is so wrong. he really suffered. That will be the way it will be here. We will have to wait for medical care. Gosh I hope no one gets sick and needs a life threating procedure. Because you will suffer, a commity will have to decide if you get treatment or not. Most likely you will be denied. I myself have been on medication that used to be covered by insurance. It is expensive. But treatment of my dr.'s. I just got my denial yesterday. Medication I had to have authorization. DENIED! So now what do I do. I am suffering pain from my condition. I can not afford out of pocket. Tell me obama care. Regulations REGULATIONS. Just wait... Obama will bankrupt our states. I will give you another example. MY dad had a lifethreatening surgery. Thank goodness he needed this surgery this year. Because of his age he most likely would of been denied coverage. Result DEATH. He has medicare & a supplement pays $1000 + with medications each month. MY mom whom has regular mamagrams & papsmears. DENIED coverage. She has to pay out of pocket. Again Medicare & supplement.
I agree we need reform. BUT not this way... not obama care.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Truth is an opinon and every philisopher knows that. You rant and rave about liberals, yet you as a conservative think they are the ones with the "real" truth. Are you so certain, what you read is not what others want you to hear.

True, there has not been many "good" presidents in the USA, but no one on any side should become the bully or tryant because they believe something different. 

Five pages could have been written in defense of Democrats as you did for the Republicans. Many of the people in this country, including yourself, have become hate mongers. So sad.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I have hope in the knowledge that between progressives' push for abortion and gay marriage, it won't be long before they self-extinct and most of the country's problems will be solved.


Why are so hateful? The country I knew and loved, and my dad fought in three WARS for this country, is now filled with people like yourself who only hate! If GOD wanted everyone to be like you and how you think, HE would not have given us a choice. You sound so far RIGHT it is very close to HITLER's thinking!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very well said, Revan.

self extinct? Can one look that up in a dictionary and come up with a rational definition? LOL :XD:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

If in the Image of God we have been created then our choices cannot be wrong.
Freedom of all sorts of choices is ours by Birth.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Actually, the name of the health care bill is not "Obama Care". The correct name is "Preventative Health Care" Think on that one!


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## bmxmom (Feb 24, 2012)

That's right under obama care will die younger. It is sick that a pap smear and mammagram is denied. Humanity is becoming extinct. And to the person who's dad served in 3 wars. Thank u for your service to this country.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Very well said, Revan.
> 
> self extinct? Can one look that up in a dictionary and come up with a rational definition? LOL :XD:


I got one like it sent to me I think it was yesterday: "Ingrieds dishonesty in misinformation......". Now that is one for the books for sure.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, the gov't will deny you tests that will save your life. At dinner tonight, I had a discussion with a British friend here visiting. Apparently he is noticing that the British health care system is not working. It is slipping. He is thinking of coming here for his health care. 

In other words, his opinion is that the British health care system does not work.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you for not supporting Obamacare. It will be the end of us. I so hope he is not re-elected.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, the gov't will deny you tests that will save your life. At dinner tonight, I had a discussion with a British friend here visiting. Apparently he is noticing that the British health care system is not working. It is slipping. He is thinking of coming here for his health care.
> 
> In other words, his opinion is that the British health care system does not work.


Oh sure. Have we not read this story multiple times before?
You need to become more inventive. The same old stories coming from many different directions, are telling.
Got the same stuff from some old geezer in the boondocks.
He has never ever even seen a Brit.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> If in the Image of God we have been created then our choices cannot be wrong.
> Freedom of all sorts of choices is ours by Birth.


God gave us the gift of free will, that is why so many choices are bad ones


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> If in the Image of God we have been created then our choices cannot be wrong.
> Freedom of all sorts of choices is ours by Birth.


Birth into sin separates us from God. That is why Jesus had to die for ours sins. We have to accept Him as our Savior before we can be like Him in Spirit. Then we become a new creation. All the past is put away. Our flesh is sin and we make a mess of things. Yes we are not His puppets. He gives us freewill to accept Him. It's our choice to chose Jesus or satan. Heaven or hell no straddling the fence. One or the other.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


I don't believe that they invite the world into their bedrooms. But they should not be persecuted for what they are, for how they were born.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > If in the Image of God we have been created then our choices cannot be wrong.
> ...


Bad can easily be in the eye of the Beholder.
Example: One chooses a Partner for Life the Parents do not like, did that Person make a bad choice? 
Two sides to every coin.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


I said NOTHING about homosexuality. I'm against gay MARRIAGE. Take from that what you will.

Also, Thomas Sowell should be required reading for all PROGRESSIVES. But then we know he would only be labeled as an Uncle Tom, right?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

My flesh is fine and the places like Heaven and Hell after death do not exist for me.
I shall be again what I was before I was,
Dust in the Wind.

I also do not believe in the imaginary Ghost Satan.
All this I have been free to choose.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, the gov't will deny you tests that will save your life. At dinner tonight, I had a discussion with a British friend here visiting. Apparently he is noticing that the British health care system is not working. It is slipping. He is thinking of coming here for his health care.
> 
> In other words, his opinion is that the British health care system does not work.


The British system does not work so well for non-urgent problems, for example, you would probably have to be on a waiting list for such things as hip replacement, however it remains the gold standard for emergency medicine and treatment of chronic conditions. For example, whilst waiting for your hip replacement you would be well provided with any medicines or therapy to make your wait more comfortable, and adaptions can be made to the home for easier living.

What you say about your British friend makes no sense, if he has treatment in the US he would have to pay, if he can afford that why would he not choose the option of private care in the UK? It certainly could not be because he thinks the US provides better care


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


so you believe we have no free will?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Oi weh, that homosexuality thing is really bothering some Folks.
Someone stated: "I dislike what they do". Who cares what you like?
I may never do what you do in your bedroom, so what! It is none of my business.
Oh those holier than thou Folks keep forgetting that we all have the same Father.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Agency or freedom of choice is probably THE most important principle of mankind.


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## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Very well said, Revan.
> ...


It is a sad day because those who know the facts are spat upon. No one likes to know anything but what they are told. I support what you have said.

I will end my entry in this discussion as it has turned into a word fight about my side or your side. We are ALL Americans and we all will WIN or LOSE. Each is entitled to think how they want, but not to be a hate monger.

I will say we agree to Disagree. I have better things to do with my time and I hope those who were so hateful and are Christians think about Jesus. He was LOVE, not HATE.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, the gov't will deny you tests that will save your life. At dinner tonight, I had a discussion with a British friend here visiting. Apparently he is noticing that the British health care system is not working. It is slipping. He is thinking of coming here for his health care.
> ...


tryalot
I do medical translations and proofreading from many different Countries and truly stay on top of what happens in Countries with so-called Universal Health Care so that when proofreading the information can be checked for accuracy which is of utmost importance.
The story given is an imaginary one. It has been around for going on 4 years now.
Your system is excellent, not perfect (nothing ever is) but excellent and the care is outstanding. What I see frequently is that elective Surgery may have a short waiting period but a very acceptable one as I have observed.
And as I have seen, while Patients are waiting, they are being observed and if possible being treated so that a better outcome is possible. There are also times, when the waiting period is shortened for just such reasons.
Your Medical Care is state of the Art and can compete with any anywhere in the World. You are very lucky.
Your system also makes periodic changes to keep up with the
progress being made in Medicine. It keeps me on my toes to stay on top of it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


 Lol! Yes you did! Are not Gay's not homosexuals ?


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

must say, I wish the word "marraige" were avoided in same sex/gay/homosexual -call-it what you prefer -civil union.
A family member (gay) agrees, believing this has caused some of the opposition to civil union. May be it is old fashioned thinking and will pass with time.
In the same way, I dislike Mardi Gras, not because it is gay, but because I dislike blatant display of sexuality.
I wonder also, if witnessing the struggle of homosexual couples to achieve a legal partnership may make heterosexual couples more appreciate the state of marraige, so long disparaged and undertaken so lightly by many,


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He is getting his treatment in the UK. He wants to move here. He said he and his wife are seeing signs of the beginning of the unravelling of the health system. In other words, the worst is down the road. 

The UK system in his mind is not the best. It is still working, but he sees that in the future he will have to plan for something else, including paying here for health care. 

He is hoping that the US is talking to the UK about what is happening in their system so we don't make the same mistakes.

Basically, the gov't cannot provide health care for everyone.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Right wing clap trap


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

tryalot said:


> must say, I wish the word "marraige" were avoided in same sex/gay/homosexual -call-it what you prefer -civil union.
> A family member (gay) agrees, believing this has caused some of the opposition to civil union. May be it is old fashioned thinking and will pass with time.
> In the same way, I dislike Mardi Gras, not because it is gay, but because I dislike blatant display of sexuality.
> I wonder also, if witnessing the struggle of homosexual couples to achieve a legal partnership may make heterosexual couples more appreciate the state of marraige, so long disparaged and undertaken so lightly by many,


Exactly my point. Thank you for saying it better than I.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Who is in their bedroom? Not me not the "lefties" it's the "righties" and bible beaters. Religious zealots who have forgotten the meaning of being a true Christian. I am not a Christian, yet I practice what Jesus preached. Why are you "Christians" so unChristian, and so full of hatred for those who live their lives differently?..So arrogant of you.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

The ACA will cover pap smears and mammograms. That is Obamacare to you


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

This is not true pap smears and mammograms are covered


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Try to find a more believable story since we know better.
SOS same old stuff.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

It is always the holier than thou who dislike so many.
What are they preaching in the Churches these days?
They always want to get into someone-else's business.
They have such a need to elevate themselves and achieve the exact opposite.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Agency or freedom of choice is probably THE most important principle of mankind.


Exactly! And that is why abortion is legal today. Women are given freedom of choice.


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## theriv17 (Jun 15, 2011)

Are we still squared off in separate corners of the ring? I haven't read anything for a couple of days, so I just caught up on entries. Talk about same old, same old stuff. Two sides, no middle. Also no resolution for this unless people on both sides are willing to open their minds and grant each other some credibility. No one is all right or all wrong. Hope you all have a good day. I'm taking off for a long weekend. I'm sure you'll still be at it on Monday, when I return to my computer! Riv


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Agency or freedom of choice is probably THE most important principle of mankind.
> ...


 Freedom to murder their babies. What a choice! Just to use for birth control! Murder is murder doesn't matter if it is legal in the eyes of the law. There are man made laws and there are God made laws. God didn't make that law man did .


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

It is astounding that the people against choice are also against
sex education in schools.
Something is very wrong with this picture.

Other developed countries have sex education starting in 2nd grade and therefore teen and unwanted pregnancies are extremely rare.

If we allow a problem to arise, we also need to allow for a choice to solve the problem.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

All we want is AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE even though
Romney's Dressage Horse gets luxury health care.

We are not even asking for chiropractic and massage treatments which his horse gets, we just want some preventive and needed health care.

His horse lives on a 5.000 acre estate with a chartered jet
and far superior health care than even most well to do families
receive
but Romney's aim is to deny 30 million of us even the basics of life.
Wonderful, caring, religious Man he is, isn't he?
Is that a Mormon approach to humanity?


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## karen2835 (Jul 12, 2011)

I wonder why we never hear of any politician, either on the state or federal level, ever state that 'they' will take a 2% cut in pay, or hell even a .5% decrease. Yet those of us who make $100k or less (and I'm not one of those either) are getting taxed every which way but loose.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Agency or freedom of choice is probably THE most important principle of mankind.
> ...


WHOA NELLY! Let's be clear. The saying "Freedom of Choice" has been hijacked by the left and I forget that from time to time. Freedom to choose ends when the harming of another individual is involved. The old saying of "your right to choose ends where my nose begins." and my nose begins at conception. Consequently, agency or freedom to choose does not equate to the murder of innocent babies regardless of what SCOTUS says.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> must say, I wish the word "marraige" were avoided in same sex/gay/homosexual -call-it what you prefer -civil union.
> A family member (gay) agrees, believing this has caused some of the opposition to civil union. May be it is old fashioned thinking and will pass with time.
> In the same way, I dislike Mardi Gras, not because it is gay, but because I dislike blatant display of sexuality.
> I wonder also, if witnessing the struggle of homosexual couples to achieve a legal partnership may make heterosexual couples more appreciate the state of marraige, so long disparaged and undertaken so lightly by many,


tryalot

I wonder why you feel so strongly about the word marriage.
50% of all marriages dissolve and most of them in a very ugly manner. I find the term marriage nothing special.

You also speak of blatant display of sexuality. Really?
Sure we encounter now and then some homosexuals not
behaving in an expected manner but poor manners by heterosexuals can be found all around us.
Ever see all the "Girls" on display to attract your husband or boyfriend?
Even on cooking shows, the boobs are almost falling into the pots.
The guy's jeans displaying just about all of their "crack"?
Why focus on just one misbehaving part of Society and not all of it?

Do I like any of such behavior? NO. But I like to be at least fair when addressing poor manners for example.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Nobody can actually hijack words and assign them to a political party, Bydie. A woman's right to choose is just what it is. Not all women choose to have abortions, but they have the right to choose if they do need one.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie

Enjoy your Freedom to choose. I do mine.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Women have the freedom to choose what they do with their own bodies. Roe vs. Wade. Do you think if a woman is raped or may die giving birth she should be forced to carry a child to term. I would hope not. You have no more right to tell me or any other woman what her decision should be. I thought the Republican Party believed government should not be interferring in people's lives? That is as personal as one can get. They should stay out of people's bedrooms and doctor's offices. If men could have babies you can be very sure they would have freedom to choose.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

karen2835 said:


> I wonder why we never hear of any politician, either on the state or federal level, ever state that 'they' will take a 2% cut in pay, or hell even a .5% decrease. Yet those of us who make $100k or less (and I'm not one of those either) are getting taxed every which way but loose.


I hear you loud and clear, Karen!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Rush who?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Rush Limbaugh, college drop out. Flunked everyone of his classes. Drug addict to oxycontin and cocaine. Yep, now there is an icon for you, the voice of the Republican party.
You guys can have him. The guy is so far out there, he's even lost!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

I prefer not to acknowledge Rush. I can't think of anyone more despicable.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I 'm with you, Rocky


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


The Bible never specifically mentions abortion. This is significant, because herbal abortifacients--most notably pennyroyal and silphium--were in common use at the time that the New Testament was written. Jesus, Paul, and the other major figures of the New Testament were surrounded by cultures that practiced abortion, but no specific condemnation of the practice can be found in the Bible.

Likewise, Exodus 21 draws a clear demarcation between the killing of a person and the killing of a fetus. Exodus 21:12, for example, reads:
Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee.
But Exodus 21:22 reads:
When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.
In other words: Killing a person outside of the womb warrants the death penalty or exile, but killing a fetus is punishable only by a fine--and that's in a circumstance where the killing of a fetus takes place against the woman's will. Exodus describes no penalty of any kind for women who choose to terminate their own pregnancies, nor does any other passage in the Bible.

But the Bible certainly suggests that human life begins prior to birth. While Rebekah is pregnant with the twins Esau and Jacob, for example, Genesis 25:22 states that "the children struggled together within her." Likewise, when Elizabeth (pregnant with John the Baptist) meets the Virgin Mary, "the child leaped in her womb" (Luke 1:41). One of the most frequently cited passages in the abortion debate is Psalm 139:13, which addresses God with the statement that "you knit me together in my mother's womb."

So the Bible's position on abortion, like its position on so many other issues, can be described as extremely ambiguous. It treats the death of a fetus as a non-homicide and makes no attempt to punish women who have abortions, nor does it mention the widely-practiced abortion that was contemporaneous to the period during which the relevant texts were written. On the other hand, it does not suggest or imply that personhood begins at the moment of birth. This is why the Judeo-Christian tradition has long struggled with the question of abortion. A theological approach to abortion, if it is to be found at all, cannot explicitly be found in the text of the Bible.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > must say, I wish the word "marraige" were avoided in same sex/gay/homosexual -call-it what you prefer -civil union.
> ...


I did say I dislike blatant displays of sexuality, maybe you took that as meaning only homosexuality, perhaps I ought to have made my point more clearly, - any display by anybody
As for your point about Christians, I can understand that, but for all the loud mouthed "holier than thou" types, I know there are so many who quietly get on with helping others who need it, neither seeking nor receiving acknowledgement
The marriage word? Yes, I wonder myself why I dislike it's use under those circumstances, probably for me, it epitomises a Church marriage between a man and a woman with the intention of joining in holy matrimony to create children. 
So there you have it, I'm sure you will come up with scathing comments about my opinions


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I prefer for you to withhold your judgement until I have made a
comment. You are assuming what I may say. Outthinking me
is impossible I assure you.

Just to set the record straight on marriage in the USA (many other countries have the same arrangements).

You are connection marriage automatically with a church service. Something which does not take place in many, many cases and has nothing to do with being married.
One is married once the official document (license) is granted.
A religious service is just a choice by a couple to add faith to the scenario.
Hardly scathing is it. Just clarification.
In addition, getting married without any religious ceremony does not keep a couple from having children.

I am with you when you mention the many fine Christians
serving those in need. 
I volunteer at a soup kitchen and food pantry in a church
and those are fine people beside me. I am not a member of that or any other church but will always support any institution or group who looks out for those in need.

You mention Mardi Gras. I happen to have been at one in New Orleans strictly by circumstance not design. Not my cup of Tea but I saw a lot of people having a lot of fun. I see nothing wrong with that. 
I don't like boxing - people beating each other into obvilion.
Now that I abhor. Mardi Gras does not intent to do harm to an other.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> I prefer for you to withhold your judgement until I have made a
> comment. You are assuming what I may say. Outthinking me
> is impossible I assure you.
> 
> ...


did you REALLY think I needed clarification? I'm sorry you feel you have to always reply with such nasty undertones, I really do not understand why you seem to need to demean people with your comments, maybe you just don't realise that you do it. that can be the only reason


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## Latinbeat (Apr 4, 2011)

why are you two always at it?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


If that is what you CHOOSE to believe but there are more verses in Exodus that are mentioned above.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer for you to withhold your judgement until I have made a
> ...


tryalot
just listen to yourself.
Where is the "nasty"? 
Yes you did need clarification since you connected marriage and church and children. You bundled things together which are not applicable to everyone getting married.
We spoke about marriage and you connected it automatically
with church and children.
I may be a stickler when it comes to details but I find such very important. It is always when the fine print is not observed that trouble ensues.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Really? Did God himself tell you that?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Very interesting reply by Joeysomma regarding the Bible and the 10 commandments.
It underlines what many have learned, it is a book of contradictions and gives anyone the freedom to interpret it to their liking.
The most interesting book ever written and rewritten over 300 times.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama is going to deny everyone proper health care. If Romney can afford it , go for it. He worked for his money.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Why do you continue to say that? Why do you think Obama will deny you proper healthcare?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Because his plan cannot work. We need to do something different in this country, but Obama's plan is not going to work. We cannot afford as a country to give everyone health care. There are not enough doctors and nurses to go around for everyone. 

I have many reasons in my mind and not enough time here to write it all. Because my friends in the UK have told me that my life will end earlier because of it and that the UK system is slowly breaking down (not publicized). 

This country needs less government involvement. 

Obama has not done well for us economically. Any news of how he has done is politically timed by him for his re-election.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting reply by Joeysomma regarding the Bible and the 10 commandments.
> ...


Joeysomma
"In its original language"? Most likely the Pope has not even read that one. When did you?
"Some mistakes" = whatever changes have been made, they were no mistakes. They were translations which can vary greatly and that is the problem. Read the Bible in different languages and you swear you are reading different books.
If that was not the case, there would be only ONE church and not hundreds.
Rewritten 300 times and not even close to the original I am very sure. I have spend decades proofreading translations.
Often it is very humorous.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting reply by Joeysomma regarding the Bible and the 10 commandments.
> ...


The Bible was written by man.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


what you missed was this, I did not claim to be stating fact but opinion, 
I really do not think you should reply to people in such a haughty, dismissive and condescending manner.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Oi weh!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > tryalot said:
> ...


tryalot
May we return to your original dislike of the term marriage being used when two people of the same sex unite.
You decided to connect marriage with church and children.
I simply clarified that a marriage license does not entail
any religious service nor children. That is of your choosing and I applaud you for it. I did that as well.
However a marriage license is a legal document and nothing else.
You see marriage one way and others simply different.
Nothing wrong with either as I see it.
It is a freedom to choose. May all of us have the freedom to do so and life happily ever after.
Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness is meant for all and not just for some.. That is how it was written and I like it that way very much.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Because his plan cannot work. We need to do something different in this country, but Obama's plan is not going to work. We cannot afford as a country to give everyone health care. There are not enough doctors and nurses to go around for everyone.
> 
> I have many reasons in my mind and not enough time here to write it all. Because my friends in the UK have told me that my life will end earlier because of it and that the UK system is slowly breaking down (not publicized).
> 
> ...


Reminds me of Henny Penny. The sky is falling! Supply and demand have not done well for us economically. Outsourcing has not done well for us economically. You will die when you die, but it won't because of Obama. More people will have a chance of living with the AHCP than having no care at all. There are plenty of doctors and nurses to go around and students are still entering medical schools.
Too much far right wing rhetoric has you nervous.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy
We had enough money to be involved in wars for 10 years, didn't we? Just think if we had spent all that money on healthcare. There should be health care for everyone because it's the right thing to do. Do you want people running around with TB and/or other contagious diseases because they can't get health insurance? Now we're paying for uninsured people through our premiums going up because the cost of going to the ER is expensive. Our health premiums are going up and up and up. We can't sustain this type of system and we need to try something as more and more people can't find affordable health insurance. We need to do something!
Just my opinion.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


While there is a Bible in hand read 2 Timothy 3:16,17 . 16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reprooof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 The the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy
> We had enough money to be involved in wars for 10 years, didn't we? Just think if we had spent all that money on healthcare. There should be health care for everyone because it's the right thing to do. Do you want people running around with TB and/or other contagious diseases because they can't get health insurance? Now we're paying for uninsured people through our premiums going up because the cost of going to the ER is expensive. Our health premiums are going up and up and up. We can't sustain this type of system and we need to try something as more and more people can't find affordable health insurance. We need to do something!
> Just my opinion.


alcameron

You ar so right. 
In addition, if we would stop sending billions abroad each and every year to Countries which do not even feel we deserve a thank you, we would have surpluses in many programs.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Pslams 139 but I am only copying 13-16. For Thou didst form my inward parts;Thous didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made' Wonderful are They works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden form Thee, When I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance' and in The book they were all written The days that were ordanined for me,When as yet there was not one of them. This my part. If God formed a baby in their mother's womb why would you think it was okay for the mother to murder the baby . Murder is murder born or unborn. Don't be deceived. I know some women that have had an abortion and they are not happy they did it. Not one of them. It leaves deep scarrs. It has driven my sil mad with guilt. She will never forgive herself even when she has asked God to forgive her she can't forgive herself.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

The greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion because it is war against a child. Mother Teresa. Sept, 1994.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Is it Sunday already??


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Pslams 139 but I am only copying 13-16. For Thou didst form my inward parts;Thous didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made' Wonderful are They works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden form Thee, When I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance' and in The book they were all written The days that were ordanined for me,When as yet there was not one of them. This my part. If God formed a baby in their mother's womb why would you think it was okay for the mother to murder the baby . Murder is murder born or unborn. Don't be deceived. I know some women that have had an abortion and they are not happy they did it. Not one of them. It leaves deep scarrs. It has driven my sil mad with guilt. She will never forgive herself even when she has asked God to forgive her she can't forgive herself.


Bumpkins, abortion is a done deal. Certainly not for everyone, but available for those who choose it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Sunday is everyday for me. I live and breath for Jesus everyday not just Sunday. Amen


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Pslams 139 but I am only copying 13-16. For Thou didst form my inward parts;Thous didst weave me in my mother's womb. I will give thanks to Thee for I am fearfully and wonderfully made' Wonderful are They works, And my soul knows it very well. My frame was not hidden form Thee, When I was made in secret, and skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth. Thine eyes have seen my unformed substance' and in The book they were all written The days that were ordanined for me,When as yet there was not one of them. This my part. If God formed a baby in their mother's womb why would you think it was okay for the mother to murder the baby . Murder is murder born or unborn. Don't be deceived. I know some women that have had an abortion and they are not happy they did it. Not one of them. It leaves deep scarrs. It has driven my sil mad with guilt. She will never forgive herself even when she has asked God to forgive her she can't forgive herself.
> ...


Gal it maybe but still murder. If you want to be a murderer it is your choose but I didn't chose abortion I choose life for my 3 kids.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Alcameron,
How right you are! Our deductible has doubled in the last 2 years from 1500.00 per person to 3,000. The ER is jammed with moms and babies with high fevers and things that could be taken care of by a pediatrician if mom only had the insurance. Sad thing is that for some people it's already too late. By not receiving preventive care they show up at the ER when it is too late to do anything for them. Had they been able to afford insurance, the story could have ended on a different note.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Alcameron,
> How right you are! Our deductible has doubled in the last 2 years from 1500.00 per person to 3,000. The ER is jammed with moms and babies with high fevers and things that could be taken care of by a pediatrician if mom only had the insurance. Sad thing is that for some people it's already too late. By not receiving preventive care they show up at the ER when it is too late to do anything for them. Had they been able to afford insurance, the story could have ended on a different note.


 Don't you have a health center in your state that you can take a sick baby to. We have them in the south. Open from 8:00 until 5:00. Only cost a few dollars to take a sick babyand can get their shots. Mama can have care for her unborn baby she choose not to abort. Had them here since I was born in 1952. Then you don't have to go to the ER.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Is it Sunday already??


Northwoods Gal

Have you ever noticed that Sunday mornings all is quiet and
after church lets out, the aggression comes forth?
I always think that all must have been forgiven and now: "at it again".

I observed that particularly at some other blogs.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Who's going to help pay for the babies after they're born? Republicans want to protect the unborn, but are so opposed to any aid for families after the child is here.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Who's going to help pay for the babies after they're born? Republicans want to protect the unborn, but are so opposed to any aid for families after the child is here.


Maybe their mother and father can get a job so they can pay for their kids. It was good enough for my parents, my kids parents and my kids. :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

But where are the jobs? We worked hard, our parents worked hard, but it's not the same today. The American dream of working hard and succeeding isn't there anymore, and really isn't there for some parts of our society. Times are very different now as the top 1% makes more money at the expense of the rest of us. There's a big gap in the socioeconomic system and the gap is growing. It's just not the same. I just don't we believe we need a representative of the 1% to lead this country. He doesn't "get it."
Just my opinion


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Just got a little tidbit for everyone. Omabacare is going to surcharge for abortion each month. It violates my religious liberty. Here is the link for those that care http://bit.ily/mJtj69


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It's a dead link. Until the bill is completed nobody knows what is in it. Pure speculation and fearmongering. The Feds have not paid for abortions to date and I doubt they will. Church and state separation.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Bumpkins, abortion is a done deal. Certainly not for everyone, but available for those who choose it.>

Those who would condone sucking the brains out of an unborn child are the same type who would on Halloween night go looking for black cats to set ablaze and ALSO consent to droning into oblivion innocent Afghani women and children. 
What will be the next "inconvenient accident" or class of people to dispose of.....? It's a slippery slope.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bumpkins, try going to a non partisan site for info. The link you posted is nothing. There is nothing there. Try wikipedia or reading the bill as it stands now. Next thing their will be a surcharge to breathe the free air. Please!No usee crying over something that isn't there.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> It's a dead link. Until the bill is completed nobody knows what is in it. Pure speculation and fearmongering. The Feds have not paid for abortions to date and I doubt they will. Church and state separation.


Share the truth about pro-abortion ObamaCare: http://bit.ly/MJtj6q
.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Bumpkins, try going to a non partisan site for info. The link you posted is nothing. There is nothing there. Try wikipedia or reading the bill as it stands now. Next thing their will be a surcharge to breathe the free air. Please!No usee crying over something that isn't there.


<non partisan site for info>
Duh! There is no non partisan site.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Bumpkins, abortion is a done deal. Certainly not for everyone, but available for those who choose it.>
> 
> Those who would condone sucking the brains out of an unborn child are the same type who would on Halloween night go looking for black cats to set ablaze and ALSO consent to droning into oblivion innocent Afghani women and children.
> What will be the next "inconvenient accident" or class of people to dispose of.....? It's a slippery slope.


The armed forces are responsible for those drone accidents. Obama did not give consent to kill civilians. The drones were there to spy on the Taliban. One had technical problems and crashed and civilians did die. But let me ask you this, how many civilians were killed in the bombing in Iraq not once ,but in 2 separate wars? Too many to count. Both Bush did give the go ahead to bomb the country. Unfortunately thousands of civilians were killed .
Most abortions are performed in the 1st 6 weeks after conception. And I highly doubt that the same people go around setting cats on fire as you say. You have a very warped way of looking at the world. We went into Somalia to stop the genecide there. We have thousands of Somalian refugees in our country now and more coming in every day. Why? So a class of people wouldn't be obliterated. Remember Black Hawk Down? We lost a lot of troops and civilians were killed after the rescue choppers were shot down. I suppose that was Obamas fault too, even though he wasn't in office.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bumpkins, try going to a non partisan site for info. The link you posted is nothing. There is nothing there. Try wikipedia or reading the bill as it stands now. Next thing their will be a surcharge to breathe the free air. Please!No usee crying over something that isn't there.
> ...


She means Bill Maher, Piers Morgan, Ed Shulz, Rachael Maddow, Chris Matthew, Al Sharpton, Lawrence O'Donnell, Charlie Rose,Andrea Mitchell , Martin Bashir , Keith Oberman. I'm sure there is more but will have to get back to you on it Bydie.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Bumpkins, try going to a non partisan site for info. The link you posted is nothing. There is nothing there. Try wikipedia or reading the bill as it stands now. Next thing their will be a surcharge to breathe the free air. Please!No usee crying over something that isn't there.
> ...


I would expect a duh from you. There are plenty of non partisan sites. You just have to be smart enough to recognize one when you see one.
Peace!


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Is it Sunday already??


Go back to page 31 of this thread and see YOUR lengthy response based on the Bible.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Is it Sunday already??
> ...


Don't need to, honey. I know what I wrote :-D


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


I chose to have my 2 children too.I am just talking about the different views of the church and state.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer for you to withhold your judgement until I have made a
> ...


Ingried,

For the sake of clarification, have you ever been legally married in the US?

One is NOT "married" when the license is granted. Some sort of ceremony is required, whether it be performed by a public official such as a Justice of the Peace, or a religious officiant, and the documentation of that ceremony must be returned to the issuing agency to be recorded. There is generally a time limit on the validity of the marriage license, after which it is null and void (if NOT returned to the issuing agency by the officiant).


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


In that case, honey, you acknowledge you gave quite a sermon yourself. Should you not therefore withhold some of the sarcasm directed at others for the same?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


A list of great minds. Faux Entertainment can never match those.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Why do we have wars? Why did we have The Crusades? Why do we kill?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Have you read the Aramaic original bible? Very few people even know Aramaic, and how do you interpret something that was written so long ago? How do you read people's minds? The bible is subject to interpretation, a book to keep people in line, given rules and guidelines to live by. How in the world do we accept the assumption that is was directly given to us by G-d?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Is that what you mean by population control? Let them die. Interesting, if it were your problem, what would you want the government to do? Not even try, give up. No matter what, we all pay for people who do not have insurance. Emergency care is not free, it is actually higher than preventive care. ACA is a beginning, subject to modifications. Nothing is perfect, but without ACA more people will suffer. Is that what you want for your fellow Americans?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Ridiculous comment. Just like abortions leads to suicide. Scare tactics


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Good for you. judge not, lest ye be judged!! Arrogance and Christianity(substitute any Orthodoxy)go hand in hand. I try not to use value judgement, just makes the world an ugly place.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Please fact check this tidbit. Not true. Just another acare tactic by the Right


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Looked up the site, totally right wing claptrap


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

You are soooooooo right. It is so much easier to just accept and not question. It takes an open mind to do that. Religion tends to make one fearful and stupid. Afraid to find out Facts. Facts are scary things. They tend to make you use your brain.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Conservatives are yelling about drones killing civilians in Pakistan just because Obama is in office. Conservatives are complaining about unborn babies being aborted as murder. They should be consistent: They should be anti-capital punishment. They should be screaming for stricter gun control. They should be
crying about people dying from a lack of health insurance. If conservatives want to preserve life they should want to preserve life whatever the cost.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Quite right


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Amen, Ingried.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


So when a soldier kills in War is that murder too? 
Also, Jesus was a Jew and Jews then and now believe life begins at birth and not before.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


I thought that our founding fathers belived in separation of church and state. Wasn't that one of the reasons they left England? I thought that Row vs Wade says abortion is legal. Are you people trying to be law breakers? Do you want a mama to die giving birth and maybe leaving a husband behind to raise a newborn and maybe a bunch of kids all on hos own?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


Northwoods Gal I admire you very much :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Conservatives are yelling about drones killing civilians in Pakistan just because Obama is in office. Conservatives are complaining about unborn babies being aborted as murder. They should be consistent: They should be anti-capital punishment. They should be screaming for stricter gun control. They should be
> crying about people dying from a lack of health insurance. If conservatives want to preserve life they should want to preserve life whatever the cost.


 Your president is the one that wants DEATH Panels not Conservatives.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

People are going to suffer in a different way with Obamacare. Everyone will get substandard care. Believe me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People are going to suffer in a different way with Obamacare. Everyone will get substandard care. Believe me.


Why?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > It's a dead link. Until the bill is completed nobody knows what is in it. Pure speculation and fearmongering. The Feds have not paid for abortions to date and I doubt they will. Church and state separation.
> ...


This is not a dead link I just copied it down wrong. This is the right link. Somebody knows. Gal you are the one that doesn't know what ocare is. The American Center of Justice is a lawyer that knows what he is talking about. It is his education and field so I don't think you can equal his studies. He has the facts you only have an opinion of what you think it means.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama needs to go. I wish people would see what he is doing to this country. 

America the beautiful is being ruined.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama needs to go. I wish people would see what he is doing to this country.
> 
> America the beautiful is being ruined.


Amen!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy
> We had enough money to be involved in wars for 10 years, didn't we? Just think if we had spent all that money on healthcare. There should be health care for everyone because it's the right thing to do. Do you want people running around with TB and/or other contagious diseases because they can't get health insurance? Now we're paying for uninsured people through our premiums going up because the cost of going to the ER is expensive. Our health premiums are going up and up and up. We can't sustain this type of system and we need to try something as more and more people can't find affordable health insurance. We need to do something!
> Just my opinion.


If we would stop spending billions upon billions of dollars on illegal immigrants, that too could be spent on healthcare. It's not just the wars that cost money.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Would you please send me a link to that effect or some proof of death panels? Your hysteria is showing.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Alcameron,
> ...


The reason the ER is chosen is because they don't have to pay. Most of the people there without insurance are here illegally, thus there was no insurance to begin with. The left doesn't see this, just generalizes about the high rate of un-insured.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

What is he actually doing to our country? I need specific information, cause I"m just not seeing it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on. I knew someone who had no work ethic. Never showed up for work for the job she had. Got fired for it. But, she was the first one in the emergency room. She didn't want to work.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Conservatives don't want any healthcare for Americans, which leads me to believe that if you get sick, you die, but please do it quickly and don't bother me.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He is giving gov't more control. He is turning the country socialistic. He is not helping this country.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not believe that to be true of conservatives. Plus, I believe we are keeping people alive too long. Why should smokers and eaters of junk food be taken care of?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


True, it is far above the blather that comes from those listed above. Enough said.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

How do you know all these people in the ER are illegals?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Explain to me what socialism is?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not believe that to be true of conservatives. Plus, I believe we are keeping people alive too long. Why should smokers and eaters of junk food be taken care of?


If we're keeping people alive too long, you should welcome death panels that you say are in "obamacare." And, we should just write off people who smoke and eat junk food? You conservatives are just overflowing with compassion. Did you learn that from the Bible?
The prevailing attitude I see coming from the conservative side is "I want mine and don't give a damn about anyone else---except the unborn babies." this isn't consistent with Christianity at all, is it?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Why are the Republicans in my Vagina? Who are they to tell me what I can and can't do with my body? Who are the ones in government passing laws forbidding my my right to an abortion if I want or need one? Is this not more gov't in our lives? Why not tell them to keep out of my business, why make laws prohibiting me from what is legal in this country? Talk about gov't invasion in my life the Republicans are the penultimate.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh, and maybe we need someone in the kitchen telling us what to eat. . .


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

If we're keeping people alive too long, you should welcome death panels that you say are in "obamacare." And, we should just write off people who smoke and eat junk food? You conservatives are just overflowing with compassion. Did you learn that from the Bible?
The prevailing attitude I see coming from the conservative side is "I want mine and don't give a damn about anyone else---except the unborn babies." this isn't consistent with Christianity at all, is it?[/quote]


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Well said. I have such difficulty understanding the charitable nature of so called Christians. I am not a Christian,but have more compassion and understanding of other peoples situations than any of these so called Christians. Dud Jesus teach that people who cannot afford healthcare should die? Did I miss that in comparatives religions?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Oh, and maybe we need someone in the kitchen telling us what to eat. . .


I suppose you could encourage healthy eating, but that would keep people alive longer, truly a double edged sword.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

They are illegals, but there are others. I know people who do not want to work and are irresponsible who go there all the time.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, I don't think it will keep people alive longer. They will just be healthier longer. To clarify "alive longer". People are kept on feeding tubes, etc. who have a very poor quality of life with no hope. They are kept alive. Why? Without all the help they would pass away and not go through that.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hurray for death panels. They could meet and determine whether you live or die based on much you are costing us.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> No, I don't think it will keep people alive longer. They will just be healthier longer. To clarify "alive longer". People are kept on feeding tubes, etc. who have a very poor quality of life with no hope. They are kept alive. Why? Without all the help they would pass away and not go through that.


A living will is a necessity


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:



> I do not believe that to be true of conservatives. Plus, I believe we are keeping people alive too long. Why should smokers and eaters of junk food be taken care of?


Because they are hiuman beings.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Bydie, Bydie, Bydie, how wrong you are. But you did pick up almost all of the MSNBC crew. I was talking about non partisan websites . One only has to take the time to look to find them.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

How about a living will? Isn't that the dying person's choice? That is not a death panel. But, it does not prolong life.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> How about a living will? Isn't that the dying person's choice? That is not a death panel. But, it does not prolong life.


Yes, there are Advance Directives in which you can state what your preferences for dying are. But you're the one who brought up death panels that you said Obama had put in the Health Care Act, so I thought you'd be in favor of them.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, I am not aware of Obama death panels. Never heard of it. What I am saying is that there is not enough health care to go around for everyone. So, everyone is not going to be taken care of. As a result, the quality of care will be thinly spread and the result is inadequate care for everyone. His plan cannot work here. Something else needs to be done. And I don't know what that would be.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm sorry Lukelucy, that was Country Bumpkins who brought up death panels.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


My absolute favorite news source that we all can trust is Stephen Colbert. Funny and gorgeous too! What a hunk! He believes in fear too and that is so important that we all live in fear. Stephen would never lie. Just ask him and he will tell you. He told me everything I need to know about ObamaCare and old people will get a choicehow they want to die they can be put out on an ice flow which the Inuit's believe in or you can get a cynide capsule courtesy of the Hemlock Society in Great Britain. (National Health in England has these same offers for their pensioners.) What a deal and it won't cost you a dime!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thanks for the reply.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Stephen is a national treasure. We are so fortunate to have him. He also believes he is perfect in everyway. Just ask him he will tell you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Conservatives are yelling about drones killing civilians in Pakistan just because Obama is in office. Conservatives are complaining about unborn babies being aborted as murder. They should be consistent: They should be anti-capital punishment. They should be screaming for stricter gun control. They should be
> ...


He is YOUR president too, like it or not!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't like it!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I love our President Barack Obama. We are so fortunate to have him. I thank God everyday for blessing us with such a wonderful man. He is almost as smart and handsome as Stephen Colbert. Just ask Stephen and he will tell you. Stephen wouldn't lie.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Ugh to Obama.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Ugh to Obama.


Three reasonable reasons you dislike him?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

1) He is changing health care and not for the better.
2) I have spoken to the military. They dislike him intensely. When he went to Iraq, the men did not want to go see him. They were forced to do so. That is a fact told by a person that was there and had to make them go. They do not respect him.
3) He is a politician and not a leader. He is doing what he needs to be reelected and not what is good for the country.
There is more. I am not focused at this moment.


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## crafty jeanie (Apr 1, 2011)

I am sick of paying for the free loaders. I work had just to have the little I have now. I just found out that my insurance is changing and the cost has doubled. I am on a fixed income and can barely make it now. Obama said that it would not affect who we have for insurance, it would not change and it would not be a tax. As far as I am concerned he lied.Sure hope people wake up and this election and lets make a GOOD
change. And no I did not vote for him.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There are so many freeloaders out there! I also worked for the little that I have. I worked hard for my health insurance. He is taking that from me.

Obama is not good for this country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There are so many freeloaders out there! I also worked for the little that I have. I worked hard for my health insurance. He is taking that from me.
> 
> Obama is not good for this country.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I don't know whether tho laugh or cry over those last 2 posts. You are SO unimformed. Google the Affordable Health Care Act and you will see how wrong you are. Obamacare is not the same as the AHCA.
Or maybe keep running around in circles crying "the sky is falling". Sheeesh.............


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

We worked hard for what we have, too. The person who appreciates the hard work of "regular" people is not Mitt Romney, it's Obama. He is not taking away your healthcare. Romney can't relate to working people, and doesn't understand what's good for the 99% of us who have worked hard and are not millionaires and billionaires.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very well said alcameron.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Thank you. We're just speaking the truth out here, right?


----------



## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> Ugh to Obama.


wonderfully thought out informative article, thank you


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Crafty Jeanie - Where do you get your insurance from? Is it through your employer or are you on a state health insurance plan of some kind?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Ugh to Obama.
> ...


I know someone who was there when Obama visited the troops and your "friend" made up that story about the troops not wanting to see Obama. Maybe your "friend" didn't want to see him but the young man I know was thrilled and he said it was exciting for all the troops and they were thrilled that the President came to visit them.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Maybe both things were going on.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm trying to figure you out lucy.You are clearly anti Obama, but to make up stories about the troops dissing our President? He is their Commander in Chief. It was he who brought and is still bringing our troops home from an unnecessary war in Iraq. It is he who is fighting for better conditions in VA Hospitals and better insurance for all Americans, and I say fighting because a do nothing Congress can't do their jobs.
You still sit on your tuffet and cry that he hasn't done anything and he is not good for our country.
He got Bin Laden, he brought our troops home as he promised to do both,and he created a health care bill that will benefit all. He inherited this economy from Dubya and one can not clean up such a mess in 4 years. Bush himself said it would take at least 10 yrs to get back on track. You can youtube that one. The man has been working his ass off trying to get things done but faces a deaf and dumb republican house who's only goal is to get him out of office. If we go bankrupt as a country you thank the republicans for that one. John Boehner will be leading the dive off of the economic cliff. With Eric Cantor in his place just behind him.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


I don't have a president right now. I am presidentless. Lol


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very patriotic, Bumpkins


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

you have SPOKEN TO THE MILITARY One, soldier, two soldiers,20 soldiers, l00 soldiers? a thousand soldiers????????

You have spoken to the Military? what a ridiculous thing to say. You might have spoken to some members of the military.Others have spoken to members of the military who believe that he is getting them out of harms way - the harm's way they were put in by Bush. Lets get real


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It amazes me that no one gives a darn about fellow Americans who are unemployed, have lost their homes, have had to go on welfare -- and they don't want to help anyone out. 

Do you want half your country to be on the streets through no fault of there own -- due to an unnecessary war that cost billions of dollars, due to big business doing such a poor job that the only way they could save their economy was to bail them out to protect what is left of the economy while you 
protect yourselves? Americans used to care about each other. I read over and over how you don't care any more about anyone but yourselves. You don't want anyone else to have health care because it might cost everyone -- you blame all the poor for taking advantage of you. It boggles the mind.

With all the countries of the world heading into or already into a recession, you blame President Obama for everything. He inherited a huge mess -- With no cooperation, how can one person change what is happening around the world.

I just hope that you are never forced to go on welfare through no fault of your own -- or anyone you care about. 

And I can't believe an American who,in my mind are the most patriotic people in the world and who love and respect their country would say that you don't have a President. What is happening to you who have turned your back on the President of your country -- I have never heard an American say that and I lived in Arizona for a lot of time. I hope, if you win your 'war' 
that you will realize that miracles are not going to happen. There is a recession everywhere- the war cost BILLIONS of dollars - one man can't change that - he inherited the mess . He is human -- so very sad to watch what you are doing to your country -- never has there been this terrible division and hate.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Very patriotic, Bumpkins[/quote


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It amazes me that no one gives a darn about fellow Americans who are unemployed, have lost their homes, have had to go on welfare -- and they don't want to help anyone out.
> 
> Do you want half your country to be on the streets through no fault of there own -- due to an unnecessary war that cost billions of dollars, due to big business doing such a poor job that the only way they could save their economy was to bail them out to protect what is left of the economy while you
> protect yourselves? Americans used to care about each other. I read over and over how you don't care any more about anyone but yourselves. You don't want anyone else to have health care because it might cost everyone -- you blame all the poor for taking advantage of you. It boggles the mind.
> ...


----------



## Llamedos (Jul 4, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Very patriotic, Bumpkins
> ...


I do not believe Jesus would be so nasty as you all are to each other,


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I don't believe that, Bumpkin. You do have a leader and a very formidable one at that. I do not bow in front of my TV to him. How childish a comment. What are you going to do when he gets elected for another 4 years? Hide under your bed? You are looking at the wrong person to blame for today's troubles. You talk about abortion like Obama created the concept. Well, sugar, you can blame every Prez from 1974 til today and call them all baby killers too. You see, Republicans use abortion to win elections, but when they get into office, they do nothing about it. NOTHING. It's still here and legal. At least Dems are up front about it. We know where our united party stands on all issues, where as yours is divided into so many sectors, Tea Party, GOP, far right wing zealots. No wonder they can't do their job in congress. They can't agree among themselves to pass anything! Now they are on the Muslim Brotherhood witch hunt which is costing you and I our tax money. They should be working to pass laws to benefit the American people . This is the 2nd witch hunt in a month. This isn't the way a Republican Congress should handle themselves. They are holding all Americans hostage by doing NOTHING to change anything. They will go down in history as the laziest congress ever.


----------



## craftylady49 (Dec 27, 2011)

And just how did you manage to talk to the military? All of them? In case you didn't know there is a huge number of people in the military. Sounds like you played Santa Claus and managed to give all the children around the world their presents in just one night. Oh, wait a minute, Santa doesn't exist.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

ACA has not been implemented yet. It was your insurance company that raised the rates.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> 1) He is changing health care and not for the better.
> 2) I have spoken to the military. They dislike him intensely. When he went to Iraq, the men did not want to go see him. They were forced to do so. That is a fact told by a person that was there and had to make them go. They do not respect him.
> 3) He is a politician and not a leader. He is doing what he needs to be reelected and not what is good for the country.
> There is more. I am not focused at this moment.


How do you know it is not for the better? It hasn't been implemented yet.
My husband is retired Military. He likes what this President is doing for vets.
How can he lead when the opposition won't work with him. The mentality of the Republicans is: Not NO, but Hell NO to whtever he wants to do, even if it was our idea first.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There are so many freeloaders out there! I also worked for the little that I have. I worked hard for my health insurance. He is taking that from me.
> 
> Obama is not good for this country.


What insurance is he taking away? He hasn't taken away mine. The ACA hasn't even begun, so how did he take it away?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We worked hard for what we have, too. The person who appreciates the hard work of "regular" people is not Mitt Romney, it's Obama. He is not taking away your healthcare. Romney can't relate to working people, and doesn't understand what's good for the 99% of us who have worked hard and are not millionaires and billionaires.


My goodness....how did an actual thinking person sneak in here?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Romney works hard. How can you assume he does not?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Romney works hard. How can you assume he does not?


Explain to me HOW he works hard? He's been unemployed for years. Unless you consider running for president for the last 6 years hard work/working hard. Of course it must be hard balancing his checkbook keeping track of millions of dollars must be quite taxing.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The guy just doesn't sit around. Just because he has money is no reason to think he's lazy. He earned his money.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The guy just doesn't sit around. Just because he has money is no reason to think he's lazy. He earned his money.


Sure he eaaarned money, on the backs of middleclass workers. Please tell me what "work" he does. I guess I am not understanding your meaning of work.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

To think he is not working is ridiculous.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> To think he is not working is ridiculous.


you keep saying he is working..at doing what?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > To think he is not working is ridiculous.
> ...


He does well at putting his foot in his mouth....great trip to Great Britain, wouldn't you say?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, that was not good. As I have said before, both men are poor candidates for the job. But, Obama needs to go. What is a country to do? We are in a jam.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, that was not good. As I have said before, both men are poor candidates for the job. But, Obama needs to go. What is a country to do? We are in a jam.


Go from the frying pan into the fire? Sounds like a great option for me. Just waht do you think Romney is going to do any differently?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't. But this healthcare business has really upset me. I would not be this adamant if it weren't for that. I just totally think Obama is going to hurt us with what he's doing. 

Otherwise, I'd just ignore him.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't. But this healthcare business has really upset me. I would not be this adamant if it weren't for that. I just totally think Obama is going to hurt us with what he's doing.
> 
> Otherwise, I'd just ignore him.


Just how is the ACA going to hurt you? Have you read the CBO report? Where are you getting your information?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I did not work my whole life to have my health care benefits changed in any way. I should be able to keep what I have.

I do not believe than everyone is going to have great health care. I do not need statistics to tell me that the overall quality of health care will decrease because there are not enough doctors and nurses to go around.

I would like to keep what I have and not have him do this. I am greatly upset by him.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I did not work my whole life to have my health care benefits changed in any way. I should be able to keep what I have.
> 
> I do not believe than everyone is going to have great health care. I do not need statistics to tell me that the overall quality of health care will decrease because there are not enough doctors and nurses to go around.
> 
> I would like to keep what I have and not have him do this. I am greatly upset by him.


What health care ins do you have?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

BCBS


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> BCBS


When will you be eligible for Medicare?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

3 years. But Medicare doesn't do it all.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> 3 years. But Medicare doesn't do it all.


your will need a supplemental ins policy, but for the money Medicare is still very good. My feeling is that ACA is a beginning and can always be modified such as Social Security and Medicare, however having nothing in lace or Paul Ryan's plan, the skies the limit as far as cost goes. Remember you have paid into SS and Medicare. they are not entitlement, you PAID for them.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Republican Congress >

Why is this erroneous phrase constantly being used? There are TWO bodies in Congress, The House of Representatives which has a Republican majority, and The Senate, which has a Democrat majority. Obama is constantly blaming "Congress" for his lack of economic progress when in fact, the Democrat Senate is sitting on over 30 pro-growth bills that have been passed by the Republican House.

BTW, those were great GDP numbers that were released yesterday....1.1%.....NOT!

But of course, THE PRIVATE SECTOR IS DOING JUST FINE! and to private business....YOU DIDN'T BUILD THAT! We should be less worried about Romney's stupid gaffes and more worried about what Obama is NOT doing to help our economy.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Republican Congress >
> 
> Why is this erroneous phrase constantly being used? There are TWO bodies in Congress, The House of Representatives which has a Republican majority, and The Senate, which has a Democrat majority. Obama is constantly blaming "Congress" for his lack of economic progress when in fact, the Democrat Senate is sitting on over 30 pro-growth bills that have been passed by the Republican House.
> 
> ...


Right on Bydie!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Wasn't ACA based on Romney's healthcare plan in MA? What do you think Romney will do about healthcare if he gets elected?


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Wasn't ACA based on Romney's healthcare plan in MA? What do you think Romney will do about healthcare if he gets elected?


Think about this long and hard.
STATES (get that?....states) have the RIGHT to do what ever they see fit for health care in their STATE (get that?...state). 
This is why SCOTUS made the decision that STATES did not have to accept federal money as a part of Obamacare. Romney knows healthcare needs to be a STATE issue. Even the Massachusetts Program has many flaws even though it is STATE run. Does anyone really think that Montana has the same health care issues as New York?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

This is a change from the health care issue. Thanks to the NRA, CCRT, and the Rep. Politicians. www.armmoland.com Thankful someone is still watching out of us!!!!! The Arms Tade Treaty Negotiations collapse as the USA refuses to sign.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Republican Congress >
> 
> Why is this erroneous phrase constantly being used? There are TWO bodies in Congress, The House of Representatives which has a Republican majority, and The Senate, which has a Democrat majority. Obama is constantly blaming "Congress" for his lack of economic progress when in fact, the Democrat Senate is sitting on over 30 pro-growth bills that have been passed by the Republican House.
> 
> ...


How about the quotes being taken out of context. Did you hear Obama's actual speech or just the Romney version? Don't bother yourself with the facts, just follow what someone else tells you. Critical thinking is a lost art. Questioning what is said is not done. Do you accept everything that someone tells you? Do you evaluate what was said and by whom? You are like sheep being led to your own slaughter. Never just accept, question, read, evaluate. That is the purpose of education as I see it to build minds that analyze, discern, think critically.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Bydie said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Wasn't ACA based on Romney's healthcare plan in MA? What do you think Romney will do about healthcare if he gets elected?
> ...


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


I believe they do not have to accept Medicaid money. So the poor people can just die and won't be a problem anymore. Talk about states taking care of theri own. I'd want to be in a state like that...........oops I am in a state like that. Who cares about the children, or the woman...


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ridiculous comment. Just like abortions leads to suicide. Scare tactics


rocky 1991

Statistics show that suicides among women never having been pregnant are much higher than those ever having had a pregnancy termination.
Makes sense.
I as well find it interesting what the Right supports and what they focus on to oppose.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Ridiculous -- to say that you talked to the Military is 
ridiculous -- you never did answer my question which I posted last night. 

I find it interesting whenever you are asked a question which can't be answered you all ignore it -- and attack. interesting how 
you think the question will go away.

It is also interesting that you have no thought for other Americans who are having a really tough time right now. Only you matter. 

Sure is a change from what your Founding fathers meant to happen.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Medical expenses once spread out among all of us will at least stabilize, perhaps even be reduced.

And preventive care saves tremendous amounts of money 
in the long run.
The difference is a little like having a cavity taken care immediately of or wait and need full dentures.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Why in the name of whoever does anyone need an assault rifle?
We have and always will have access to plenty of weapons.
What kind of neighborhoods have the people created who have a need for such military gear?
What is extremely puzzling is that often the folks who want such gear NEVER volunteered for the Military. They looked for every ridiculous excuse to stay out of it.
Is it because they are such cowards that they feel a need for such weapons?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Did you hear Obama's actual speech > 
Actually, yes, I did. Not only that, I READ the written versions of both just to be sure I hadn't misunderstood. It is one thing to gaffe....every one does that. It's another thing entirely to speak off the cuff and have the what you truly believe come oozing out. What comes next? Having to face the music and make claims that "it was taken out of context".

BTW, regarding speeches, someone needs to tell Obama to lay off the fake Southern, condescending black accent that he uses when he thinks it will ingratiate him to the crowd he's facing. It's very transparent....oh wait....that's what he claims to be, right?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie. You always hear what you want to and not necessarily what has been said loud and clear. 

President Obama is the President of all People, many of them to your dislike, are of color and I find it appropriate that he
addresses them not in the Romney style.

There is a good reason why the catholic church has gone from Latin to English. It was done so to address all people equally.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie. You always hear what you want to and not necessarily what has been said loud and clear.
> 
> President Obama is the President of all People, many of them to your dislike, are of color and I find it appropriate that he
> addresses them not in the Romney style.
> ...


The "people of color" that I associate with do not think it appropriate at all. They think it's very condescending.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234

Yes, the president inherited a mess, but through his administration he has expanded that mess enormously. The GDP for the last quarter was 1.5%. Last year the growth rate was 1.9%. Through the administration's policies, it has gone down yet the debt has only climbed. Debt now outpaces the GDP. Unemployment has not been below 8% for the last 40 months. We have regained less than half the jobs that were lost since the recession began. Consumer spending is down considerably because of the uncertainty regarding the taxes from ObamaCare and the taxes that will change as of January 1, 2013 and all the regulations placed on businesses. The poverty rate is the highest it has been since 1965. 

The president and congress need to create an environment which will promote economic growth. They are not doing this and the result is a looming recession. We are on a downward slope and according to the labor department, it will continue into 2013.

Interest rates are at record lows. Feds can't do much more to help. We are tapped out. Why doesn't the administration realize this. America has already been downgraded by Moody's last year (first time ever for America). At this rate, I don't see how ObamaCare can be funded.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you! Designer!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I knew it would be just a matter of time before you started spewing racism, Bydie. All your rants mean nothing. The true you has just shown herself. Tsk tsk.


----------



## crafty jeanie (Apr 1, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Crafty Jeanie - Where do you get your insurance from? Is it through your employer or are you on a state health insurance plan of some kind?


My husband is retierd Air Force so we have Tri West. Which I just got a letter from them stating due to Obama Care it is going to be doubled as of Mar. 2013


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Designer1234
> 
> Yes, the president inherited a mess, but through his administration he has expanded that mess enormously. The GDP for the last quarter was 1.5%. Last year the growth rate was 1.9%. Through the administration's policies, it has gone down yet the debt has only climbed. Debt now outpaces the GDP. Unemployment has not been below 8% for the last 40 months. We have regained less than half the jobs that were lost since the recession began. Consumer spending is down considerably because of the uncertainty regarding the taxes from ObamaCare and the taxes that will change as of January 1, 2013 and all the regulations placed on businesses. The poverty rate is the highest it has been since 1965.
> 
> ...


The Administration does recognize this. But just like in any business, you have to spend money to make money. And the AHCA is different from the Obamacare of 2010. But look again at how much we have saved by getting out of Iraq. We bailed out Detroit and they are once again manufacturing cars in Michigan. The Highway bill was finally passed and there are millions of jobs created just through that. And soon we will have our troops out of Afghanistan. But when congress refuses to work across the aisle to get more done, it just keeps America stagnant. They are fighting to lift the Bush Tax cuts for the uber wealthy. Right now the middle class has done just about all they can do to keep their heads above water. It should never have passed in the first place.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


The states that do not want to accept the Medicaid money are objecting to the money that will come from the Federal government to be used to expand the services. This money is only for a short period of time and then the states are on their own. This will create the problem of finding funding later on. Now who is taking thing out of context?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Soloweygirl.
You may want to read re. ACA/States and then report.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Did you hear Obama's actual speech >
> Actually, yes, I did. Not only that, I READ the written versions of both just to be sure I hadn't misunderstood. It is one thing to gaffe....every one does that. It's another thing entirely to speak off the cuff and have the what you truly believe come oozing out. What comes next? Having to face the music and make claims that "it was taken out of context".
> 
> BTW, regarding speeches, someone needs to tell Obama to lay off the fake Southern, condescending black accent that he uses when he thinks it will ingratiate him to the crowd he's facing. It's very transparent....oh wait....that's what he claims to be, right?


Just what did you hear/read? Not what I did apparently


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Today's headline in the Wall Street Journal:

"Weak Economy Heads Lower"

We need a new president.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> I knew it would be just a matter of time before you started spewing racism, Bydie. All your rants mean nothing. The true you has just shown herself. Tsk tsk.


Nice try! Major fail! tsk! tsk!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Today's headline in the Wall Street Journal:
> 
> "Weak Economy Heads Lower"
> 
> We need a new president.


I have to consider two sources: WSJ and you
Both Regressive and fear mongering


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Rocky 1991 and Ingried What did you read????
> 
> Please give a website so we can read it also, else you are just spewing.


WSJ front page


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Joeysomma

How many times do I need to repeat for you to do your own homework?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The Wall Street Journal crowd is just looking for more Tax breaks. Someonebody has to keep the cerebrally impaired
misinformed.
They have only increased their income by 300 percent over about 30 years while the rest of us stayed stagnant and their
stocks have steadily increased since President Obama took Office.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Joeysomma
> 
> How many times do I need to repeat for you to do your own homework?


Why should she when you can get answers from Faux news?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky 1991
I forgot, Faux Enterainment is the mainstay for some Folks for sure to get misinformation. They certainly cornered the market in that respect. 

I gag when even for a few minutes I have to listen to those folks but listen I must just to get some amusement and to be able to identify their faithful servants. They sure make that easy.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

As I've read this thread I've noticed there seems to be a general antipathy towards the wealthly aka "greedy". I thought it would be interesting to do some discovery on who are the wealthiest members of Congress. So TaDa!

TOP TEN GREEDIEST MEMBERS OF CONGRESS BY POLITICAL PARTY!


Republican:

McCaul TX
Buchanan FL
Issa CA

Democrat:

Feinstein CA
Rockefeller WVA
Kohl WI
Polis CO
Warner VA
Kerry MA
Harman CA

Hmmmm.....a little lopsided there, isn't it? I wonder if each of these rich, greedy Democrats is paying his/her "FAIR SHARE" or if any of them has paid only 15% capital gains tax, or if any of them has Swiss bank accounts, or has off-shore investments. Wouldn't one of you like to get some answers on this subject? :O)


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie. You always hear what you want to and not necessarily what has been said loud and clear.
> ...


Bydie
You would not want me to be speaking to you in the manner I speak with my Peers. You would call that snobbish I am very sure.
Etiquette teaches us to accomodate. I am neither better nor worse, just try to adjust to any situation.
I assure you that no-one, black or white finds any fault with the 
President addressing People as he does, that is your problem alone.
In fact I shall check with black people of different backgrounds tomorrow. If I am wrong, I shall report here.

You associate with people of color? Wow, why then such obvious dislike (mildly expressed) for their Race?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> As I've read this thread I've noticed there seems to be a general antipathy towards the wealthly aka "greedy". I thought it would be interesting to do some discovery on who are the wealthiest members of Congress. So TaDa!
> 
> TOP TEN GREEDIEST MEMBERS OF CONGRESS BY POLITICAL PARTY!
> 
> ...


I was not aware of this Bydie. Thank you. I was aware of Kerry's wife being the Heitz empire. Which she has inherited from her family. It's that so interesting ( hmmm) that Kerry is a dem. Does that make him a 1%???? Bydie I just made an apple pie. Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice. Maybe catch up on some info.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

It doesn't matter whether they're republicans or Democrats, they all should pay their fair share.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie 

Your list is quite incomplete.
However none of these Folks are running for President.
If they do, we will be on their backs no matter which party they belong to.
I am quite sure however that NONE will refuse to reveal their
Tax records. None.

And will you please quit accusing us of being envious of the wealthy! Far from it. We are happy for anyone our Taxes do not have to support and that is why we are fighting so hard to re-establish a true middle class.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Are we starting to "squirm" just a little?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Are we starting to "squirm" just a little?


Is that why you post things? To see if you can get people to squirm?
I personally find it very unfair for the wealthy to pay less than their fair share.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice.>

Country Bumpkin,
Do I have to wear shoes???? :O)


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<none of these Folks are running for President>

This MSNBC talking point is get very old and worn. I expect that anyone holding public office from dogcatcher up would be honest and have integrity in their office. The president can hold office for a maximum of 8 years. A Congress person can be in office for decades. It is wise to hold all of them to a high standard.

And I won't even mention John Kerry's attempt to avoid nearly 500K in MA. taxes by docking his yaught (sp) in Rhode Island. Of course, he was caught. Oops! I mentioned it. Oh wait, didn't he run for president????


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice.>
> 
> Country Bumpkin,
> Do I have to wear shoes???? :O)


Bless you heart "Darlin" no just your teeth. I'll git Odis the bloodhound off the porch so you can comeon in. :thumbup:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice.>
> 
> Country Bumpkin,
> Do I have to wear shoes???? :O)


Boy am I glad to have never asked that question. The list of my Titles would be expanded.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice.>
> ...


Come on Engie have some fun!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <none of these Folks are running for President>
> 
> This MSNBC talking point is get very old and worn. I expect that anyone holding public office from dogcatcher up would be honest and have integrity in their office. The president can hold office for a maximum of 8 years. A Congress person can be in office for decades. It is wise to hold all of them to a high standard.
> 
> And I won't even mention John Kerry's attempt to avoid nearly 500K in MA. taxes by docking his yaught (sp) in Rhode Island. Of course, he was caught. Oops! I mentioned it. Oh wait, didn't he run for president????


Thank you Bydie for exactly making my point re. Taxes.
Kerry was revealed was he not?
I like to see as well how much money Bachmann got from the Government (our Taxes).

Now as to holding Office, there should be term limits for everyone and I.Q. tests for Voters.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Who is Engie?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you! Obama must go!
I applaud your answer.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Who is Engie?


My term of endearnent for you. Do you mind? If not Engried.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <Come on over and I'll make us some sweet tea to go with it. I'll add alot of ice.>
> ...


You know you're ROTFL!

Well, Good evenin' Darlin's. I'm gonna grab my knittin' and head on over to Country Bumpkins house for some apple pie. Sorry ya'll weren't invited. Maybe if you learn to be nice, you'll be invited next time.

P.S. Notice I dropped a bunch of "g"s. I was usin' my good etiquette like Obama does when he's panderin'. XO


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

And he does pander.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Who is Engie?
> ...


No harm done but
may I inform you that I do not like endearments. I like my Name very much since it was given to me with great thought by my Parents and has family history.
It is customary in my family to call everyone by their proper name. No Pet names.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh, does Ingried start with "e" now or is that jis' how they talk?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


 If you don't like Ingie I will call you your proper name then Ingried. I won't endear you anymore.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The Heritage Foundation, hmmm? Shall I read it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <none of these Folks are running for President>
> 
> This MSNBC talking point is get very old and worn. I expect that anyone holding public office from dogcatcher up would be honest and have integrity in their office. The president can hold office for a maximum of 8 years. A Congress person can be in office for decades. It is wise to hold all of them to a high standard.
> 
> And I won't even mention John Kerry's attempt to avoid nearly 500K in MA. taxes by docking his yaught (sp) in Rhode Island. Of course, he was caught. Oops! I mentioned it. Oh wait, didn't he run for president????


Bydie, Bydie you got it wrong again. - Here's the rest of the story you failed to mention.
Oops! This happened in 2010. Was Kerry running for President that year? Ahh no.

(CNN 7/28/2010) - Sen. John Kerry will voluntarily pay $500,000 in taxes to the state of Massachusetts - a move that forestalls a potential investigation into whether the Bay State's senior senator attempted to evade the hefty levy by docking his $7 million yacht in Rhode Island.

Sources; Politico.com, CBS news.com
While you are comparing Bydie - Mitt owns 6 homes;
1. LaJolla, CA 2. and 3. 2 Homes in Boston, MA 4. Deer Valley, UT 5. Wolfeboro, NH 6.Lake Winnipesaukee, NH

President Barack Obama owns 1. Chicago, IL and he currently resides in Washington, D.C.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Who is Engie?
> ...


Ingried spells her name Ingried, not Engried.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Joeysomma
> ...


Oi weh, I never said I proofread any Bible. Go read what I wrote.
This is the very reason that am getting more and more into giving very short
answers. In depth explanations are getting lost all the time.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


LillyK
I thank you very much. 
I like my name and embrace it and do not like for others to tamper with it. I find that disrespectful.
Even if one does not like an other, at least one should always extend the courtesy of naming them properly.
Things like that should be familiar to everyone.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK

You are too well informed for the feeble minded to understand what you try to convey.
They can't even understand the most simply things.

Each and every day when I show up here I feel so sorry for all
Teachers past and present. Darn the job they have to teach others and get paid Peanuts for doing so.

It becomes more and more obvious that even though no child left behind was not in effect officially years ago, it was practiced because many should have never graduated from anything.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Oi weh. I know what I wrote but you don't understand what I wrote and therein lies the never-ending problem.
This is one time when I wish I had gotten into the habit of using cuss words. But I shall never lower myself to do so.
Please, please, please, do yourself a favor and try to understand what I stated rather clearly.

You asked: "What translations did you proofread". Does that not make it already clear that I did not mention the Bible in that context? Holy Cow, am I dealing with a total drop-out or what?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Are you sane?
Is there someone in your household who looks after you?
I sure hope so.

Are you desperate for just having a conversation with anyone?
Have all people abandoned you because you are so lost?
What on Earth is your problem?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


PLEASE understand, I am not needing your approval for anything. Can you understand that?

Now let's go simple here.
Are you lonely? Are you looking to just have contact with someone? If so, let us know, we are willing to entertain you
in a very simple manner. You do not have to strain yourself trying to
look good, just be yourself and we can have a nice conversation
to fill your time.
We can talk about cleaning house, cooking, baking, gardening,
sewing, knitting, crafting of all sorts. You see, lots of things to speak about. Let's keep it simple.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Dear People from other parts of the World looking in on this,
PLEASE understand that the LARGEST percentage of Americans are really well educated and many continue their education
WAY beyond High School. There are a few however who are not teachable or reachable and this is one of these cases.
My Fellow Americans on the whole are fine, fine People and
very easy to be around and most willing to learn. 
Would it not be great to have a Pill to take for certain insufficiencies?

What truly bothers me about some "needy" is that they have such a jearning to be heard and never realize how the rest of the World sees them even when it is pointed out to them
again and again.
We desperately need better Health Care. Desperately.
Too much is being neglected.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I just found this website. Very interesting. 10 very good reasons to repeal Obama Care.
> 
> http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2012/07/10-ways-obamacare-limits-patient-choice


Seriously? TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> As I've read this thread I've noticed there seems to be a general antipathy towards the wealthly aka "greedy". I thought it would be interesting to do some discovery on who are the wealthiest members of Congress. So TaDa!
> 
> TOP TEN GREEDIEST MEMBERS OF CONGRESS BY POLITICAL PARTY!
> 
> ...


Bydie - Since when is it a crime to have money? Why do you dislike the wealthy? TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


If you would express yourself clearly then everyone could understand what you are trying to say. You just aren't being clear. TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


How many translations and versions of the Bible are there? If it is the word of God why isn't there just one that everyone uses? How do you know which one is the correct one? TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What does he do? Go to foreign countries and act like a fool? TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie. You always hear what you want to and not necessarily what has been said loud and clear.
> ...


And what color would those people be, Bydie? Purple, pink, gold, green? What are you trying to say? TBBC


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lilly k aren't you on probation? Do you really trust youself right now? Maybe a good idea to go somewhere you can erase yourself.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Joeysomma what I don't understand is why Ingried needs to proofread the Bible ? Strange for someone to say they proofread 3oo versions of the Bible and it is funny. Why is it funny?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Joeysomma what I don't understand is why Ingried needs to proofread the Bible ? Strange for someone to say they proofread 3oo versions of the Bible and it is funny. Why is it funny?


Country Bumpkin and your Friends:

I never ever said I proofread nor proofread 300 versions of the Bible. I know language is a problem for you but by now you should know it a bit better.
Your condition is worsening.
Did you get your education in this country or on Mars?
Perhaps your difficulties are age related. In that case, I excuse you.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Joeysomma what I don't understand is why Ingried needs to proofread the Bible ? Strange for someone to say they proofread 3oo versions of the Bible and it is funny. Why is it funny?


Folks, we should make a routine out of this like
the one "Who's on first" or a Laurel and Hardy.
This is too hilarious to let it die.

Had Schools in this Country such big differences in curriculum
in the past or was attending School voluntary in some areas?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I have been reading this for the last two days and have to express my opinion on what is happening here. 

don't you think that maybe the personal insults should stop? and get back to the Political discussion, which, by the way is not going to change a darned thing as everyone is 'digging in' and no one will budge an inch. One insults the other, the other insults the first person back. No one is accomplishing anything when discussion goes out the window and personal insults take its place.

I am, as you know, pro Obama, just so that you know that, but right now I just hate to see the personal attacks and the one upmanship on both sides of this discussion. 

Lets get back to a discussion that makes some sense. 

I am not an American and I realize you can tell me to mind my own business but I care about the United States - you don't do yourselves a favor by acting like you have been posting this past while. 

I am sure that others who come in to see what this thread is about they would be appalled at the personal, nasty attacks. 

People from all over the world could be reading what you are posting. 

Am out of here -- can't read any more of this .


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Joeysomma
> 
> How many times do I need to repeat for you to do your own homework?


In other words, she who has nothing.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer - I agree with you. The topic here is Funding for Obama Care and it has gone way off topic, not even close to the original intent of the thread.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

LillyK said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <none of these Folks are running for President>
> ...


Of course he "voluntarily" paid. He absolutely didn't want an investigation into whatever else he was involved in. DUH!

What does the number of houses that Romney owns have to do with Kerry withholding taxes? Stay on topic.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Funding for Obama Care

Easy. If everyone pays their part, we all benefit.
And those who are truly in need of help, we support.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bye Bye - TBBC


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

LillyK said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > As I've read this thread I've noticed there seems to be a general antipathy towards the wealthly aka "greedy". I thought it would be interesting to do some discovery on who are the wealthiest members of Congress. So TaDa!
> ...


This is the whole nonsense behind the 1% vs 99%, the class warfare speeches Obama gives, the pay their fair share chants from the left. You guys dislike the wealthy, even though plenty of liberals have money. Why else would there be such hoopla over Romney not revealing years and years of tax returns. The man is loaded, he admits it, time to move on to more important concerns, like the economy, jobs, illegal immigration, foreign affairs, to name a few. According to the Rasmussen and Gallup polls, most Americans don't care that Romney is rich.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Joeysomma what I don't understand is why Ingried needs to proofread the Bible ? Strange for someone to say they proofread 3oo versions of the Bible and it is funny. Why is it funny?
> ...


Engried which one are you? Laurel or Hardy? Glad you have seen some comedy. You need to laugh more often. Have a little fun.    :-D :lol: :wink:


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried, the routine "Who's on first" was not Laurel and Hardy. It was Abbott and Costello.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried, the routine "Who's on first" was not Laurel and Hardy. It was Abbott and Costello.


 You are right again Bydie. :lol:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is cute:
> 
> 10 reasons to not vote for Obama from a 6 year old.
> 
> http://godfatherpolitics.com/6382/6-year-old-gives-10-reasons-not-to-vote-for-obama/


Out of the mouth of babes!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried, the routine "Who's on first" was not Laurel and Hardy. It was Abbott and Costello.
> ...


Ouch, ouch.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

TBBC!


----------



## SueFerns (Aug 16, 2011)

I seem to remember a statement of "no double taxation" whatever happened to that?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Abortion is not healthcare. http://bit.ly/LOKXEo I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion is already born. Ronald Regan. http://bit.ly/Q8ctbi


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Abortion is a medical procedure that doctors can perform legally in the U.S. Roe vs Wade guarantees this right to women in our country. 
Very few women use abortion as a means of birth control. As far as women having horrible troubled lives after they have an abortion that is not true. If anything there is great relief. Abortion is a last resort not a first choice. It is a moral decision a woman makes between her and her God. Only God knows what the reason is that a woman comes to this decision and not you or any other human has a right to judge. God will do that. If anyone should be punished it is the men who commit incest and impregnate their own daughters or any man who rapes a woman. Society seldom punishes men for these crimes against women. A woman also should not have to die in order to let a fetus survive.

This is the medical code for the medical procedure of abortion. All healthcare is coded.
CPT Codes
99217-99239 Medical treatment of spontaneous complete abortion, any trimester
59812-59857 Treatment of abortion, and inducement

You may not like it but to pretend it doesn't exist isn't realistic. It would be wonderful if men were not such beasts but because they are women need protection and compassion not condemnation. TBBC



Country Bumpkins said:


> Abortion is not healthcare. http://bit.ly/LOKXEo


----------



## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Would just like one thing to be known, 
I knew a patient who overheard a nurse referring to her as "having aborted" she was mightily upset because in laymens terms she had suffered a miscarriage. 
Medical terminology for this is "Spontaneous Abortion". What is commonly referred to as abortion is referred to as Termination of pregnancy or T.O.P.
If you hear of a woman having aborted, things may not be quite as they seem.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Abortion is not healthcare. http://bit.ly/LOKXEo I've noticed that everyone who is for abortion is already born. Ronald Regan. http://bit.ly/Q8ctbi


Well ,it wouldn't make sense for the dead to talk about abortion, now would it? A woman has the right to choose. and nobody has the right to judge her besides her God. All kinds of circumstances lead to abortion. We would all like to see less abortions performed, but as Lilly has said, men have to quit raping their daughters and sisters, and any woman for all that matters. 
I said it before and I'll say it again,abortion is a moral issue and has no place in politics. The Republicans use it in every election, that they will repeal RoevWade, but they haven't. It's still here.
And I believe in some instances that it is a medical health care issue. If the life of the mother is in danger due to an incompatible pregnancy, it does warrant emergency health care.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried, the routine "Who's on first" was not Laurel and Hardy. It was Abbott and Costello.


Please, educate yourself regarding the word "or".
Re-read what I wrote and try again.

Oi weh.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried, the routine "Who's on first" was not Laurel and Hardy. It was Abbott and Costello.
> ...


Ever learned the meaning of the word "or"?
Go read what I wrote.
And you are wrong again Country Bumbkin.

Ouch, ouch.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Abortion is a medical procedure that doctors can perform legally in the U.S. Roe vs Wade guarantees this right to women in our country.
> Very few women use abortion as a means of birth control. As far as women having horrible troubled lives after they have an abortion that is not true. If anything there is great relief. Abortion is a last resort not a first choice. It is a moral decision a woman makes between her and her God. Only God knows what the reason is that a woman comes to this decision and not you or any other human has a right to judge. God will do that. If anyone should be punished it is the men who commit incest and impregnate their own daughters or any man who rapes a woman. Society seldom punishes men for these crimes against women. A woman also should not have to die in order to let a fetus survive.
> 
> This is the medical code for the medical procedure of abortion. All healthcare is coded.
> ...


KillyK I fully aware that babies are being killed every day Unwanted babies are sucked out the safety of their mothers. The don't want their babies so to me that is birth control. I think that we need to have more laws against the beast you are talking about . I would say cut it off so they couldn't do it again! Sounds fair to me.


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## maryrose (Apr 15, 2011)

i can't wait to see what happens this november concerning the election.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Abortion is a medical procedure that doctors can perform legally in the U.S. Roe vs Wade guarantees this right to women in our country.
> ...


Country Bumpkin - My name is LillyK. I'm sure you must have just hit the wrong key when you were typing or you have a very odd sense of humor. Abortion is not funny, Country Bumpkin.

I think you are talking about Vacuum Aspiration, one of the most commonly used forms of abortion.

I hope you are as concerned about all the babies that come into this world unloved and unwanted, those that end up beaten and abused. What about them? What about the thousands of people your God fearing country has sent off to die in "made up wars" so people like Dick Cheney and George Bush and company could make millions while our country was abandoned by them and left to fall into disrepair so they could line their pockets. Where is thier respect for life? I am more concerned with the living. I wish every pregnancy could end up with the birth of a health happy mother and child but that isn't the case in our country.

I have included the opinion of several world recognized organizations on the various types of abortion and their safety. It is my opinion that the religious right in this country says they believe on a hands off approach when it comes to people's personal lives and at the same time talk out the other side of their mouths when it comes to the personal lives of others. Then they believe it is their right to march into any doctors office or anyones home to check up on their neighbors and see what they are up to. This is just what the government of Communist China does to their people. I guess the religious right is Communist. Who knew? TBBC

The health risks of abortion depend on whether the procedure is performed safely or unsafely. The World Health Organization defines unsafe abortions as those performed by unskilled individuals, with hazardous equipment, or in unsanitary facilities.[45] Legal abortions performed in the developed world are among the safest procedures in medicine.[1][46] In the US, the risk of maternal death from abortion is 0.6 per 100,000 procedures, making abortion about 14 times safer than childbirth (8.8 maternal deaths per 100,000 live births).[47][48] The risk of abortion-related mortality increases with gestational age, but remains lower than that of childbirth through at least 21 weeks' gestation.[49][50][51]

Vacuum aspiration in the first trimester is the safest method of surgical abortion, and can be performed in a primary care office, abortion clinic, or hospital. Complications are rare and can include uterine perforation, pelvic infection, and retained products of conception requiring a second procedure to evacuate.[52] Preventive antibiotics (such as doxycycline or metronidazole) are typically given before elective abortion,[53] as they are believed to substantially reduce the risk of postoperative uterine infection.[35][54] Complications after second-trimester abortion are similar to those after first-trimester abortion, and depend somewhat on the method chosen.

There is little difference in terms of safety and efficacy between medical abortion using a combined regimen of mifepristone and misoprostol and surgical abortion (vacuum aspiration) in early first trimester abortions up to 9 weeks gestation.[26] Medical abortion using the prostaglandin analog misoprostol alone is less effective and more painful than medical abortion using a combined regimen of mifepristone and misoprostol or surgical abortion.[55][56]

Some purported risks of abortion are promoted primarily by anti-abortion groups, but lack scientific support.[57] For example, major medical and scientific bodies (including the World Health Organization, the US National Cancer Institute, the American Cancer Society, the Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists and the American Congress of Obstetricians and Gynecologists) have concluded that abortion does not cause breast cancer.[58] although such a link continues to be promoted by anti-abortion groups.[57]

Similarly, current scientific evidence indicates that induced abortion does not cause mental-health problems.[59][60] The American Psychological Association has concluded that a single abortion is not a threat to women's mental health, and that women are no more likely to have mental-health problems after a first-trimester abortion than after carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term.[61][62] Abortions performed after the first trimester because of fetal abnormalities are not thought to cause mental-health problems.[63] Some proposed negative psychological effects of abortion have been referred to by anti-abortion advocates as a separate condition called "post-abortion syndrome", which is not recognized by any medical or psychological organization.[64]

TBBC


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Most disturbing is that so many Folks are against Pregnancy Terminations while thousands of Children in Foster Homes are begging for a permanent Home and never get one.

And over 25,000 Children are dying of starvation each and every day.

Sounds like the unborn have much more value than the
Children without parents.
Go figure.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


Where in Heck did I try to sound funny? Murder of innocent babies is not a laughing matter to me. You can rationize all you want on the subject but murder is murder. The next thing your side will want is to protect and make a law to make pedophialia legal. First murder of unborn babies, marriage between same sex, next you will say you are born with pedophialia and it's okay because you are born that way. I don't like my tax money spent on abortion with Obama care. NOT a bit funny! :hunf:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkin - You are really off base. You don't know me and what I believe or don't believe other than what I have posted and yet you make remarks implying you know all about me. Don't make light of serious issues and make fun of things and people you don't understand.

TBBC


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkin - You don't know me or what I believe so stop making your sick jokes. You are not funny.
> 
> TBBC


Lilly k I know I don't know you but what kind of funny joke am I telling? I am not trying to be funny. Dead serious! I am not laughing!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I can hardly wait either. I'm sure you know who I will be voting for and I hope the people in this country can once again be united and have compassion for each other and get beyond the me me mentality and think about what is good for all the people and not just for who they think is deserving of a decent life. I hope that will be what all of us want. We don't want to follow the example of a Congress who does not want to do anything good for the people that sent them to Washington. Most of all I want the Health Care Act that was patterned on Mitt Romney's plan in NY to be allowed to stand so all of us can get health care. We can then count ourselves among so many other countries who provide this service to all their citizens and actually have much better medical outcomes for a lesser cost than we pay now. We need to quit bowing down to insurance companies and pharma and make them work for us for a change. TCCB



maryrose said:


> i can't wait to see what happens this november concerning the election.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

LillyK wrote:

<Abortion is a medical procedure that doctors can perform legally in the U.S. Roe vs Wade guarantees this right to women in our country.>

Killing Jews, homosexuals, gypsies, mentally retarded people and those with Down Syndrome was legal in Germany during the time of the Third Reich. Does that make it morally right (correct)?

BTW, who is going to Chik-fil-A tomorrow for breakfast? Lunch? AND dinner?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

LillyK wrote:

<It would be wonderful if men were not such beasts>

Really???? What a very sad opinion to have of 1/2 of the human race! That contradicts the fact that the human female is the only one of the "beasts" that chooses to abort her young.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkin:

a Proverb:

The only good is knowledge and
the only evil is ignorance.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkin:
> 
> a Proverb:
> 
> ...


I agree Ingried .Maybe some of the left will now be informed of the truth.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bydie said:


> LillyK wrote:
> 
> <It would be wonderful if men were not such beasts>
> 
> Really???? What a very sad opinion to have of 1/2 of the human race! That contradicts the fact that the human female is the only one of the "beasts" that chooses to abort her young.


Right again Bydie!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK wrote:
> ...


Once again. TBBC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK wrote:
> ...


Once again TBBC


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Obama needs to go! We don't want Obamacare to pay for aborted babies with our tax money.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK wrote:
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What a waste. You two have fun now talking to yourselves. TBBC


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

So we go from to Obamacare to abortion. I suppose it's Obama's fault that abortions are legal? Please! 
Bumpkin, you are hilariuos! You have been providing me with much laughter these last few weeks.
Actually the human female beast is kinder. Some beasts eat their young.
Tomorrow, The Affordable Health Care Act changes take place for women. You lose! Women win


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK , Engried ever read Matthew 19:13-17 and 18? Suffer or do not hinder the children to come into me.( Jesus) Jesus in red. That means Jesus is talking. 18. You shall not commit murder.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LillyK , Engried ever read Matthew 19:13-17 and 18? Suffer or do not hinder the children to come into me.( Jesus) Jesus in red. That means Jesus is talking. 18. You shall not commit murder.


Actually that can mean something else. For instance, if your child wants to be of faith, you shall not prevent it. 
Once again, abortion is a moral issue and does not belong in politics.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Gal, LillyK-TBBC? What does the Thailands Burma Border Consotium have to do with Obamacare and it paying for abotion. You say I am the funny one?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Gal, LillyK-TBBC? What does the Thailands Burma Border Consotium have to do with Obamacare and it paying for abotion. You say I am the funny one?


Keep guessing :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK , Engried ever read Matthew 19:13-17 and 18? Suffer or do not hinder the children to come into me.( Jesus) Jesus in red. That means Jesus is talking. 18. You shall not commit murder.
> ...


What about the murder part? If you don't let them be born how can they have any faith? Doesn't that mean you are preventing them? What is seperation of church and state? Where does this apply? If it is against the way you believe that murder is murder(abortion) why should you have to pay taxes on it. Is that separation of church and state? Inform me please.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Why do you think abortions are government funded? Can you show proof of that? As I said in an earlier post, I chose to have my children, but you can't call every who has an abortion a murderer. What if the fetus was compromising the life of the mother? The fetus can't live without the mother. If it was your daughter in that position what would you think she should do? Die ?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It's clear that you don't understand and it is not an easy topic to understand. The government makes it legal and my church says it is a sin. Black and white, right?
But I think there is a little bit of gray in there.If one life can be saved then it should be.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


It will be in obamacare paying for abortion I have already proved it. You just don't like the answer. I would pray for my daughter and my grandchild that God would let them both live.I am not trying to be smart either. You asked me what I would or my daughter would do . We would both do the same thing. Pray to the Father.http://bit.ly/MJtj69 From American Center for Law and Justice.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Where did you prove it? Do you have insurance now that you like? If you do you can continue with your current insurance and you will not be participating in the ACA. 
Your tax dollars will not be paying for abortion. Who told you that?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Every abortion leaves one wounded and one dead!


How would you know? Can you read minds. Yes a fetus would not be brought to term but you have no idea what the woman feels. It's God that judges us not you or me or anyone else. Do you know what compassion is or just condemnation. It must feel good to know you have all the right answers. I think God does, not me or you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Once again, Bumpkins, Obamacare does not exist. It has been revised and is now the American Health Care Act. As Lilly said, if you already have insurance, you don't have to change a thing. But Harry Reid got it right tonight when he said that "women are no longer a physical disability in America." Meaning, if you are recovering from breast cancer, no insurance company can turn you away for having a pre-existing condition, or if you are pregnant they have to take you. Healthcare screenings such as mammograms and papsmears are now covered. I didn't see anything about abortion in there. 
Why does this make you feel so threatened?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama needs to go! We don't want Obamacare to pay for aborted babies with our tax money.


Oi weh!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Every abortion leaves one wounded and one dead!


Joeysomma
I know, you like War, Orphans and Foster Children and care not about 25,000 children dying each day.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LillyK , Engried ever read Matthew 19:13-17 and 18? Suffer or do not hinder the children to come into me.( Jesus) Jesus in red. That means Jesus is talking. 18. You shall not commit murder.


Countr Bumpkin

So why don't you get busy to prevent children from lingering in Foster Homes and 25,000 dying of starvation each and every day!
If you want to get into Religion, be my guest. How perfect is God when miscarriages happen all the time?
Many, many more than Pregnancies being terminated by a
difficult choice.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Judge upholds fetal pain bill, takes effect this week. Phoenix. July 12, 2012 LifeSiteNews.com Praise the Lord!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

TBBC!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Mother Terasa's letter to Supreme court in 1994. Against abortion. http://bit.ly1N80UDW. STB


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

And what's new? TBBC


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Can you find a citation where it says it does pay for abortion? Do your homework!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, Bumpkins, Obamacare does not exist. It has been revised and is now the American Health Care Act. As Lilly said, if you already have insurance, you don't have to change a thing. But Harry Reid got it right tonight when he said that "women are no longer a physical disability in America." Meaning, if you are recovering from breast cancer, no insurance company can turn you away for having a pre-existing condition, or if you are pregnant they have to take you. Healthcare screenings such as mammograms and papsmears are now covered. I didn't see anything about abortion in there.
> ...


There is no ObamaCare that is what the right calls the American Health Care Act. If they were going to give it another name they should have called it RomneyCare since it is based on what Romney set up in Massachusetts when he was governor there. TBBC


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Here is my prayer for the USA http://bible.cc/psalms/109-8.htm STB


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Has anyone ever seen such a lazy bunch of Folks like the rightists?
It is obvious that they copied when in School and learned little but I thought that by now they changed their habits.

No wonder they can't comprehend even the simplest sentences.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Has anyone ever seen such a lazy bunch of Folks like the rightists?
> It is obvious that they copied when in School and learned little but I thought that by now they changed their habits.
> 
> No wonder they can't comprehend even the simplest sentences.


Oi Weh


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Today Women got a step up in our Society.
Women now have access to Health Care denied so many because of cost. Eventually we make it into the 21st Century in all aspects of Health Care.
And then there is some total Idiot comparing it to Pearl Harbor and 9/11? He must be ripe for the rubber room.
I thought craziness was a condition not an infectious disease.
The very right sure has been catching it.

It is actually very sad to see the mainstream Republican Party disappearing. It is always good to have at least a healthy two Party System in place but these right wingers are off of their
Rockers and therefore dangerous.


----------



## coo (Jun 24, 2012)

how strange are the American politics and these squabbles here


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Can you find a citation where it says it does pay for abortion? Do your homework!
> ...


Joeysomma - What don't you get? There is no such thing as ObamaCare and we do not call it that you on the right do. We only use it because we are being considerate of you. The only thing that exists is The Affordable Care Act ObamaCare is a nickname made up by the right . You dp know what a nickname is? I already explained that to you in an earlier post. I read the link to the Presidential Citation. What don't you undertand there? Is the Office of the President a liberal website or are you calling something else a liberal website? Explain yourself please? You can read the actual wording of the Affordable Care Act legislation on the internet and Federal taxes will not pay for abortions. Why don't you do that and then come back if it doesn't make sense to you. 
Seems very clear to me. TBBC


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever seen such a lazy bunch of Folks like the rightists?
> ...


Does the Executive Order say that federal dollars cover abortions? Yes or No.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Nearly $500,000 taxpayers funds is given to largest abortion provider in 
America each year. http://bit.ly/MUON.JC No law can give me the right to do wrong. Abraham Lincoln


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Has anyone ever seen such a lazy bunch of Folks like the rightists?
> It is obvious that they copied when in School and learned little but I thought that by now they changed their habits.
> 
> No wonder they can't comprehend even the simplest sentences.


Oh brother,those living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nearly $500,000 taxpayers funds is given to largest abortion provider in
> America each year. http://bit.ly/MUON.JC No law can give me the right to do wrong. Abraham Lincoln


To set the reocrd straight - I know hard for the Right to do -
NONE of that money goes for Pregnancy Terminations.
It all goes for preventive Care and regular check ups.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Nearly $500,000 taxpayers funds is given to largest abortion provider in
> America each year. http://bit.ly/MUON.JC No law can give me the right to do wrong. Abraham Lincoln


Your link doesn't work. If you are providing facts about your opinion then please provide an active link. TBBC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma - 


joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone ever seen such a lazy bunch of Folks like the rightists?
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


[/quote]

joeysomma - You just decided to pick one paragraph that doesn't prove your point or any point about abortion funding. I used your link and if you go back and actually read from the bottom of page 64 to the bottom of page 67 you will find that what it tells you is that if your insurance plan includes abortion coverage then you will pay Federal tax and your insurance premium but only in the case of rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother. Federal tax cannot be comingled with premiums. If you don't want to pay for abortions you can buy insurance through the Federal insurance exchange that does not cover abortion and you will not pay tax to fund abortion. It's your choice. Several states are setting up their own insurance exchanges too and they must include an insurance choice that does not cover abortion for people who don't want it and you will not pay any tax to pay for anyone else's abortion. If I selected insurance that covers abortion I am saying that's fine with me I will pay tax in addition to my insurance premium for abortion. Please re-read and I'm sure you will then understand you won't be made to pay for abortion if you do not want to.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

You only see what you want to see. You would not even go back and read what is in the bill because if you did you would know what I said is true. I weep for you. You want to see the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is.
I used to respect the Republican Party but it has become a weak shadow of what it used to be and it is preaching so many terrible things and doing nothing to help the people of this country only hating the black President living in the White House. Sadly people are following blindly along without thinking or questioning anything believing Romney will fix everything. He is the laughing stock of the rest of the world, even worse than Bush was. For the first time in my life I fear for the future of our country and for what the right is doing to destroy everything that our parents and grandparents had worked so hard to build for us. It is all being lost. Jesus would never condone what the right is doing to this country and you know in your heart that is true. I thought Jesus taught you were supposed to take care of one another, and whatever you do for the least of my brothers that you do unto me. What happened? So selfish, so self centered. 

Matthew 13:13 (Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not) or Jeremiah 5:21 (Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not). 

As Tiny Tim said in Dicken's Christmas Carol, 
God bless us everyone. Roger/Wilko over and out 
Let's blow this pop stand. TBBC


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GOPWOT

GOP wasting our time. Now that is a true statement.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, I don't like paying my tax dollars to wars or republican congressmen and women. Do I have a choice? I also don't want to pay the salaries of Supreme Court Justices who let their partisan leanings make their decisions. Do I have a choice? I don't want my taxes increased so wealthy Americans can pay less. do I have a choice?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> You only see what you want to see. You would not even go back and read what is in the bill because if you did you would know what I said is true. I weep for you. You want to see the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is.
> I used to respect the Republican Party but it has become a weak shadow of what it used to be and it is preaching so many terrible things and doing nothing to help the people of this country only hating the black President living in the White House. Sadly people are following blindly along without thinking or questioning anything believing Romney will fix everything. He is the laughing stock of the rest of the world, even worse than Bush was. For the first time in my life I fear for the future of our country and for what the right is doing to destroy everything that our parents and grandparents had worked so hard to build for us. It is all being lost. Jesus would never condone what the right is doing to this country and you know in your heart that is true. I thought Jesus taught you were supposed to take care of one another, and whatever you do for the least of my brothers that you do unto me. What happened? So selfish, so self centered.
> 
> Matthew 13:13 (Therefore I speak to them in parables: because they seeing see not) or Jeremiah 5:21 (Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not).
> ...


You didn't read far enough down. Jermiah 5:21 says. Hear this, O foolish and senseless people .22.Do you not fear Me? Declares the Lord. Do you tremble in My presence? For I have placed the sand as ablunndary for the sea , An eternal decree, so it cannot cross over it. Though the waves toss, yet they cannot prevail. Though they roar, yet they cannot cross over it. But this has a stubborn heart: They have turned aside and departed. 24 They do not say in in their heart: Let us now fear the Lord our God, Who gives rain in iits season, Bothe the autunm rain and the spring rain, Jeremiah was talking to the people in the city of Jersulemn about God's laws. Why are you quoting this LillyK? Mt. is talking to you not Joeysomma and I we are the Christians and not the sinners that Matthew was talking to. You are taking it all out of context. You have to read to who Jesus is talking to understand the meaning. But good for you reading the Bible.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma - and country bumpkins -- you are soooo arrogant. And SO 
right, about everything . Do you honestly believe that only you of all the people here know how to read the Bible - and what the Bible means? 

People have been trying to figure out the meaning of the Scriptures for centuries. Only you know the answer - at least that is what comes across from you.-- Biblical 
scholars read the Bible differently than each other and have come to different conclusions for hundreds of years. Look at the different Christian religions -- hundreds of them -- all believing theirs is the only right way - I try hard not to answer the 
unbending - close minded posts from you and a couple of others - you ignore everything that doesn't fit into your narrow narrow 
ideas. 

You are welcome to your opinion on womens' rights, I am welcome to my opinion of womens' rights. You want to send us back to the early l900's or earlier. 

People read what they want to read in the Scriptures. One book says one thing , another Book says something opposite.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > You only see what you want to see. You would not even go back and read what is in the bill because if you did you would know what I said is true. I weep for you. You want to see the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is.
> ...


I gave up Christianity when you kicked Jesus out and decided to follow him. You have made up your new revised version of something but it's not what Christianity used to be. As a friend of mine said to me today if her Dad and Sister came back they wouldn't even recognise what's going on with the zealots running around the country. My Mom would cry and say Jesus what has happened. They call themselves Christians and they don't even follow you anymore. Where is Christian Charity, where is Christian love. It's gone. The U.S. has gone mad. Just look at Michelle Bachman. She's insane! TBBC


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Well, I don't like paying my tax dollars to wars or republican congressmen and women. Do I have a choice? I also don't want to pay the salaries of Supreme Court Justices who let their partisan leanings make their decisions. Do I have a choice? I don't want my taxes increased so wealthy Americans can pay less. do I have a choice?


alcameron
Amen


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

The only reason that the Bible is still around and being used and abused is that so far nobody has been able to make much sense of it and that will never change.
Anyone can interpret it to their liking.
The Bible is a book which will be in reprint forever and provide
many scoundrels a way to do business without paying taxes.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> The only reason that the Bible is still around and being used and abused is that so far nobody has been able to make much sense of it and that will never change.
> Anyone can interpret it to their liking.
> The Bible is a book which will be in reprint forever and provide
> many scoundrels a way to do business without paying taxes.


Are you confusing the Bible with the Tax Code?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal wrote: (a few pages back)
> 
> "Why do you think abortions are government funded? Can you show proof of that? As I said in an earlier post, I chose to have my children, but you can't call every who has an abortion a murderer. What if the fetus was compromising the life of the mother? The fetus can't live without the mother. If it was your daughter in that position what would you think she should do? Die ?"
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > The only reason that the Bible is still around and being used and abused is that so far nobody has been able to make much sense of it and that will never change.
> ...


SPJBT TBBC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I don't like paying my tax dollars to wars or republican congressmen and women. Do I have a choice? I also don't want to pay the salaries of Supreme Court Justices who let their partisan leanings make their decisions. Do I have a choice? I don't want my taxes increased so wealthy Americans can pay less. do I have a choice?
> ...


Ingried, alcameron, Designer - Designer I will include you too even though you are not an American, let's pay the imaginary tax for joeysomma and she can pay the war tax for us. Now everybody is happy. Issue resolved. TBBRC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > You only see what you want to see. You would not even go back and read what is in the bill because if you did you would know what I said is true. I weep for you. You want to see the world as you wish it to be, not as it really is.
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


LillyK
I 2nd that motion.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Thank you, Ingried.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Under Obamacare, HHS issued a mandate as of Aug. 1, 2012. It mandates that all employers (with very few exceptions) provide insurance which covers "all FDA approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity." The contraceptive methods include abortifacient drugs.

Employers are required to offer insurance that covers "women's preventive services". Usually preventive care refers to measures taken to prevent illnesses. Looks like they are treating pregnancy like an illness. LOL


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

In some cases pregnancy can be a deadly illness. Tubal pregnancies for one. no LOL there.

TBBFC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Under Obamacare, HHS issued a mandate as of Aug. 1, 2012. It mandates that all employers (with very few exceptions) provide insurance which covers "all FDA approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity." The contraceptive methods include abortifacient drugs.
> 
> Employers are required to offer insurance that covers "women's preventive services". Usually preventive care refers to measures taken to prevent illnesses. Looks
> like they are treating pregnancy like an illness. LOL


soloweygirl - Are you living under a rock? You should be thanking your President for offering women preventitive services like mammograms and pap smears and birth control (prevents pregnancy). You may have personal or religious reasons for objecting to birth control but no one will force you to use it. The law also mandates that insurance be available for people who do not want abortion to be covered so you would have that option. These preventitive tests help save lives and money because without them women become so ill before they go to the doctor it would cost much more later if they had to have cancer surgery or other cancer treatments. Pregnancy is considered a preexisting condition by insurance companies along with diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. It has allowed insurance companies to deny women insurance if they have ever had a baby. I don't think that was right, do you. Under the Affordable Care Act no one can be denied health care based on preexisting conditions. What that means to many people is they won't be forced into bankruptcy because someone in the family got ill and they could not pay their medical bills or maybe lose their home or job. I think that is a good thing. Don't you? If you need help to understand how this healthcare will benefit you I would be happy to help you research it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Protecting Americans with Pre-existing Conditions


By Richard Sorian, Assistant Secretary for Public Affairs U.S. Department of Health and Human Services

Posted January 18, 2011 
If youve ever been told by your doctor that you have a health condition, the last thing you want to hear is that your insurance company is limiting or denying your health coverage.

Under the full range of policies in the Affordable Care Act to be in place by 2014, Americans living with pre-existing conditions are free from discrimination and can get the health coverage they need at a price they can afford. And families are free from the worry of having their insurance cancelled or capped when a family member gets sick, or going broke because of the medical costs of an accident or disease.

Today, there are many conditions that your insurance company may consider pre-existing conditions, including:

Heart disease
Cancer
Asthma
High blood pressure
Arthritis
Prior to the enactment of the Affordable Care Act, your insurance company can decide what is a pre-existing condition and refuse to sell you a policy, charge you two or three times more, or limit your benefits so that your condition is excluded.

Thanks to the Affordable Care Act, we have already prohibited these practices for children and by 2014 that will be the law of the land for all Americans. But if efforts in Congress to repeal the health law succeed, all those freedoms will be wiped away.

Most of us would like to think that pre-existing conditions are someone else's worry. But a new study released today by the Department of Health and Human Services shows that as many as 129 million Americans under age 65 have some type of pre-existing health condition and would be at risk of losing health insurance if the law is repealed. The study estimates that up to 30 percent of perfectly healthy Americans are likely to develop a pre-existing condition over the next eight years. Older Americans  those between the ages of 55 and 64  are most likely to have pre-existing conditions.

Under the Affordable Care Act, in 2014, most health insurers will no longer carve out needed benefits, charge higher premiums, put lifetime limits on coverage of key benefits, or deny coverage due to a persons pre-existing condition

Among the other freedoms that would be taken away are:

Insurers can no longer deny coverage to children because of a pre-existing condition. 

Insurers can no longer take away coverage because of a mistake on an application and they cannot limit lifetime coverage to a fixed dollar amount.

Young adults now have the option of staying on their parents coverage up to the age of 26 if they lack access to job-based insurance of their own.
Uninsured people with pre-existing conditions in every state now have access to coverage through the new, temporary Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan. This serves as a bridge until 2014, when insurance companies can no longer deny or limit coverage or charge higher premiums to anyone because of a preexisting condition. More information on whether you are eligible and how to enroll can be found at HealthCare.gov or by calling 1-866-717-5826.

The Affordable Care Act is making sure that you have health coverage when you need it most, and is putting your health care where it belongs  in your hands, not in the hands of your insurance company.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Here is a more complete list of exclusions from BCBS Insurance. Do you or anyone you know have any of these?
This won't be allowed with the Affordable Care Act but will
not help adults until 2014. Children are protected now so if you had a child or grandchild born with any of these things they are now protected. Adults can purchase affordable insurance now that will cover them until 2014. 

Medical Condition Rejection List

If you have a condition, illness, or injury that is listed on the Medical Condition Rejection List below, you will most likely be declined for individual coverage with Blue Cross Blue Shield 

These conditions include, but are not limited to:

AIDS
Alcoholism/Alcohol Abuse (within 7 years)
Angioplasty
Aortic Stenosis
Arteriosclerotic Heart Disease
Ascites (within 5 years) 
Bi-Polar Disorder
Boecks Sarcoidosis
By-pass surgery
Cancer (other than skin cancer)/Malignant Melanoma²
Cerebral Vascular Accident
Cerebral Vascular Disease
Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (if currently smoking)
Chronic Pancreatitis
Chronic Renal Failure
Cirrhosis of Liver
Coronary Heart Disease
Cushing's Syndrome
Cystic Fibrosis
Diabetes (managed with any type of medication)
Drug Addiction/Abuse (within 5 years)
Fatty Liver (hepatic steatosis) (fully recovered with normal lab results for minimum of 6 months)
Grand Mal Epilepsy (within 5 years)
Heart Attack
Height and Weight (see chart)
Hemodialysis/Peritoneal Dialysis
Hemophilia
HIV

Hodgkins Disease
Huntington's Chorea
Immune Deficiency Syndrome
Leukemia (within 7 years)
Liver Atrophy
Lupus Erythematosus (Systemic)
Multiple Neurofibromatosis (within 7 years)
Multiple Sclerosis
Muscular Dystrophy
Myasthenia Gravis
Myocardial Infarction
Nephrosclerosis
Organic Brain Disorder
Pacemaker
Paget's Disease
Parkinson's Disease
Pending surgery of any kind
Peripheral Vascular Disease
Polycystic Kidney
Pregnancy (current)
Psychotic Disorder
Rheumatic Heart Disease
Stroke
Systemic Scleroderma
Tetralogy of Fallot
Transient Ischemic Attack (within 5 years)
Organ Transplants
Valve Replacement


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Because it is a tax!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

seeing this list - I am glad I live in Canada-- not a perfect system but sure does do a better job than this list of things that are not covered. -- 

However - it has to start somewhere -- it took many years for our coverage to evolve. the longer it is put off the more expensive and the more difficult it is to accomplish -- meanwhile people are dying and no one in the GOP seems to care. very sad.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

You keep coming back to the fact it is a tax? How is a country expected to pay for health care, no matter what you call it. I know that is your argument- but meanwhile your citizens don't get health care and die. Is that what America stands for?. Are you so afraid it will cost you something that you will let your countrymen die? It boggles my mind. 

What happened to the America that the world respected and admired? It seems to be going down the toilet -- because everyone on the right seems to only care for their own little space - and to heck with the rest of their neighbors and citizens -- let the chips fall where they may. Seems very sad to me and very selfish. What is happening to you all? I have always admired the patriotism of the American people -- where did it go? It will come back to bite you --I hate to think what your wonderful country will be like in another ten years if what is showing up now continues to grow. You are a world power -that 
means respect, and admiration -- you are throwing it away.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

ObamaCare is the largest expansion of the taxpayers funding for abortion since Roe v Wade. Http://bil.ly/MagZL6


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

what about the all the other things it does cover? YOu are 
talking about one small portion of the plan. I know you don't believe in Abortion or women's rights- that is your right, but not everyone agrees with you. They have that right. Why do you 
push your opinions on others who don't agree (a goodly number are Christians) me included. No one would force you to use that portion of the plan -- why do you feel you have the right (you and other religious Conservatives - feel that they have the right to force your opinions down other peoples throats) and blindly 
disagree with the only health care plan available at this time for your country? I just can't get my mind around it. . 

You are using the fact that you have to pay something for the health care for your country, and using abortion or womens' rights as an excuse to get rid of President Obama. At least that is what it appears to other countries- YOu are hurting your 
country so much -- 

it is like it was in Germany -- things were not going well, there was a recession, Hitler spouted his beliefs that everything wonderful would happen if they just went along with his beliefs- he blamed the Jews for everything Because they wanted to believe they wanted things to improve and because they didn't like the people in power, they followed him blindly. 

- you blame President Obama for the recession, because he is black- because the whole world is slowly slipping into a recession -- but it is still President Obama's fault - 
Look what happened. Don't you ever give that some thought? 

It scares me -- and I am looking at the United States right now and am afraid for you all.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

1234 we are afraid for our country too. That is why I am scared that Obama will stay in. You don't live here I do I understand what is going on . You are just watching TV and listening to one side. I live here and see with my own eyes what the goverment is trying to do. I am a taxpaying citzen and don't mind paying my part. But I don't like paying for the people that don't even try to make it to a job. Take care of their kids. The people that I have to feed because they are too lazy and depend on me for a living. They have better clothes than I do ,eat better than I do. They even have a better car than I do. My husband and I work and pay our own bills and do without when we don't have the money for something we want like a vacation or new car. Our home is paid for, our cars. our furniture. Don
t mind giving anything I have to help people. We have had black and white kids live with us because we like to help others. I've had a gay boy that's family didn't want him live with me and take him on vacations . Paid for a truck for him. Paid for his college. Took in a white girl that was pregnant with a black baby .I am not going to toot my horn but have helped many people. If you knew me you would know that about me. But I don't like my living taken from my family because some one else doesn't want to pay their part. You don't understand. You just don't understand because you don't live here and can't see what really goes on in real life in the USA. Canada sounds wonderful. Please enjoy it.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


I do not understand your answer. What does that mean?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> ObamaCare is the largest expansion of the taxpayers funding for abortion since Roe v Wade. Http://bil.ly/MagZL6


HELLO!!!!!!!! This is not a tax! It is paid for by insurance premiums. There is no such thing as Obama Care anymore.
There is no funding for abortion in that. You keep reading these far right wing maniacal sites and that is what you will see. Read the bill and you won't see it.
TBBFC!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thankyou for the honest reply --- I realize that we don't really get to know each other as all we do is write to each other. 
My hat is off to you for your caring for other people. I still don't understand what it is that you are really saying though. 

What is the answer if we don't look after our poor, those who 
are unable to help themselves -- not all people on welfare are 
trying to abuse the system. We have people here in Canada that do abuse the system but many many don't , and it is very frustrating -- but there is no way in my opinion that we can let the poorer people in our country go down the drain. 

My family is like yours - we pay our way - always have, always will. We have always looked after ourselves,and raised our Children. The thing is there are people in both our countries that are suffering through no fault of their own - and as we are good people, and as we care about our country - we do our best to take care of each other. I realize I am a Canadian , but I have always admired the United States I also appreciate it that I have been allowed to state my opinion by both sides of the argument, without being attacked. I don't for a minute believe that all the people in either of our countries on the right are always wrong or the people on the left are always right. 

I have always been interested in American Politics and it 
seems that there is a feeling in this election that has never been 
known before -- There is such a huge feeling of dislike between both parties -- and having watched your elections from afar I have never seen the inability to work together the way it is now. 

I just pray that we never allow it to happen at home. I worry, as I have said -- Remember, America has a huge influence on Canada - and decisions made by your country usually have an effect on mine. 

I just hope that somehow you can work together,even though you don't agree, like you have in the past. It doesn't seem as if that is going to be possible. I hope I am wrong. It would be 
awful for your country if you can't - I don't mean just you, I mean all of you. Off my soap box. Shirley


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> 1234 we are afraid for our country too. That is why I am scared that Obama will stay in. You don't live here I do I understand what is going on . You are just watching TV and listening to one side. I live here and see with my own eyes what the goverment is trying to do. I am a taxpaying citzen and don't mind paying my part. But I don't like paying for the people that don't even try to make it to a job. Take care of their kids. The people that I have to feed because they are too lazy and depend on me for a living. They have better clothes than I do ,eat better than I do. They even have a better car than I do. My husband and I work and pay our own bills and do without when we don't have the money for something we want like a vacation or new car. Our home is paid for, our cars. our furniture. Don
> t mind giving anything I have to help people. We have had black and white kids live with us because we like to help others. I've had a gay boy that's family didn't want him live with me and take him on vacations . Paid for a truck for him. Paid for his college. Took in a white girl that was pregnant with a black baby .I am not going to toot my horn but have helped many people. If you knew me you would know that about me. But I don't like my living taken from my family because some one else doesn't want to pay their part. You don't understand. You just don't understand because you don't live here and can't see what really goes on in real life in the USA. Canada sounds wonderful. Please enjoy it.


Are you Michele Bachman in disquise? PLEASE! If you don't like paying taxes, ther are a host of other countries to move to.
"Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society" If you don't want to pay taxes, then move! Iran would be perfect for you. There are no womens rights there, which you seem to object strongly to here in the US. Iran is a theocracy. If you are so into religion running everything, go there. Or you could try Somalia. You want government out of your life? That place would be perfect for you, too. There is no government at all there. 
Or you can stay here in America and keep on whining and fearmongering and putting down the President who is only trying to give the poor a fair shake. You are petrified that someone is going to take your money. I'd be more afraid of Romney doing that. He has to keep the Old Boys happy by keeping tax breaks that they never should have had to begin with. 
I for one am ectsatic that women finally have the medical care we need and deserve at a fraction of the cost. And some very important testing is free. Lilly already covered that.
I just can't believe that a fellow woman could be so selfish in her thinking. Yes, you mentioned taking in a white girl with a black baby. Does color really matter? If it didn't you would have just said a woman and her child. You are a closet racist, Bumpkin, who just came out. You are so afraid that 1 dime of your precious money may be taken from you to pay for abortions that are not paid for with taxpayer money. You are wrong there. And in time you willopen your eyes and ears and realize that.
I love my country and I have no problems paying taxes to allow me the liberties I have today. 
I believe President Obama will win in November. The one thing I pray for is a Democratic Congress so legislators can do there jobs and not be blocked by teabaggers and the far maniacal right wing.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> 1234 we are afraid for our country too. That is why I am scared that Obama will stay in. You don't live here I do I understand what is going on . You are just watching TV and listening to one side. I live here and see with my own eyes what the goverment is trying to do. I am a taxpaying citzen and don't mind paying my part. But I don't like paying for the people that don't even try to make it to a job. Take care of their kids. The people that I have to feed because they are too lazy and depend on me for a living. They have better clothes than I do ,eat better than I do. They even have a better car than I do. My husband and I work and pay our own bills and do without when we don't have the money for something we want like a vacation or new car. Our home is paid for, our cars. our furniture. Don
> t mind giving anything I have to help people. We have had black and white kids live with us because we like to help others. I've had a gay boy that's family didn't want him live with me and take him on vacations . Paid for a truck for him. Paid for his college. Took in a white girl that was pregnant with a black baby .I am not going to toot my horn but have helped many people. If you knew me you would know that about me. But I don't like my living taken from my family because some one else doesn't want to pay their part. You don't understand. You just don't understand because you don't live here and can't see what really goes on in real life in the USA. Canada sounds wonderful. Please enjoy it.


Are you Michele Bachman in disquise? PLEASE! If you don't like paying taxes, ther are a host of other countries to move to.
"Taxes are the price we pay to live in a civilized society" If you don't want to pay taxes, then move! Iran would be perfect for you. There are no womens rights there, which you seem to object strongly to here in the US. Iran is a theocracy. If you are so into religion running everything, go there. Or you could try Somalia. You want government out of your life? That place would be perfect for you, too. There is no government at all there. 
Or you can stay here in America and keep on whining and fearmongering and putting down the President who is only trying to give the poor a fair shake. You are petrified that someone is going to take your money. I'd be more afraid of Romney doing that. He has to keep the Old Boys happy by keeping tax breaks that they never should have had to begin with. 
I for one am ectsatic that women finally have the medical care we need and deserve at a fraction of the cost. And some very important testing is free. Lilly already covered that.
I just can't believe that a fellow woman could be so selfish in her thinking. Yes, you mentioned taking in a white girl with a black baby. Does color really matter? If it didn't you would have just said a woman and her child. You are a closet racist, Bumpkin, who just came out. You are so afraid that 1 dime of your precious money may be taken from you to pay for abortions that are not paid for with taxpayer money. You are wrong there. And in time you will open your eyes and ears and realize that.
I love my country and I have no problems paying taxes to allow me the liberties I have today. I have no problem with the way things are headed here. I think Obama will win this election and more will get done. 1 step at a time. The only thing I pray for is a democratic congress so lagislators can do their jobs and not be blocked by a psycho tea party and far right maniacs.
Yes, there is still hope for change.
TBBRFC


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > 1234 we are afraid for our country too. That is why I am scared that Obama will stay in. You don't live here I do I understand what is going on . You are just watching TV and listening to one side. I live here and see with my own eyes what the goverment is trying to do. I am a taxpaying citzen and don't mind paying my part. But I don't like paying for the people that don't even try to make it to a job. Take care of their kids. The people that I have to feed because they are too lazy and depend on me for a living. They have better clothes than I do ,eat better than I do. They even have a better car than I do. My husband and I work and pay our own bills and do without when we don't have the money for something we want like a vacation or new car. Our home is paid for, our cars. our furniture. Don
> ...


I wasn't talking to you I was talking to 1234. Gal I have only seen you say that you want to reap from taxes not pay them. You just want the money for you so you can sit back and take it all in. No I don't care if a baby is white black or purple. Remember I am the one wanting to save them. By the way my daughter is married to a Japanese and I have 2 Gbabies that are 1/2 Japanese. So how am I a racist. How do you know that I am black or white. You are the racist! You are for murdering innocent babies. Thous shall not kill!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Then you didn't read my post carefully., Bumpkin. go back and read the part whereI wrote about me and paying taxes.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Then you didn't read my post carefully., Bumpkin. go back and read the part whereI wrote about me and paying taxes.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Gal I really don't read your post so it doesn't matter what you say because the parts Ive read is nonsense! STB


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

No, it's not nonsense. It's just common fact.

TBBRFC


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thankyou for the honest reply --- I realize that we don't really get to know each other as all we do is write to each other.
> My hat is off to you for your caring for other people. I still don't understand what it is that you are really saying though.
> 
> What is the answer if we don't look after our poor, those who
> ...


1234 I just don't like the people that abuse the government funding when they are able to work. If it be white, black or what ever color. See it everyday. I live in a welfare county. The crime rate is off the charts in my home town. Druggies get welfare to stay at home and do drugs. I would gladly welcome anyone in my home, give them money , love ,what ever I could do to help. Love my country but it is like you say going down the drain. If we can do anything to save it God help us. i just don't think that a person that chooses to not work ,not talking about the poor, elderly or disabled just the lazy ones that suck all the free money out of the ones that have worked hard for a living. The ones that think I owe it to them just because. I thank you for worrying about it. But it is just like some people say. I don't believe in taking a child's life because a couple is wreckless with birthcontrol. I have seen to many young girls that are not happy after they had an abortion. Life is too precious.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Nowhere in my post does it say that I want to reap from taxes and not pay them. Take your blinders off.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Does anyone on the right understand that we pay taxes for the COMMON GOOD.? That means we're all in this together and we pay for things for the benefit of the American people. I've said this again and again. We pay for educating our children even if we have none. It's for the edification of our populace. We pay for roads, bridges, fire and police protection---for everyone's benefit. I'm still waiting for the benefit of the two Bush wars, but we paid several times over for that. What is so hard to understand? Our taxes go for all kinds of benefits for the good of the public.
End of epistle
P.S. I'd rather pay for breast pumps than two great big costly wars.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

P.S. I'd rather pay for breast pumps than two great big costly wars.""

well put, that is what I have been trying to say you said it better than I did. Designer


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Under Obamacare, HHS issued a mandate as of Aug. 1, 2012. It mandates that all employers (with very few exceptions) provide insurance which covers "all FDA approved contraceptive methods, sterilization procedures and patient education and counseling for all women with reproductive capacity." The contraceptive methods include abortifacient drugs.
> 
> Employers are required to offer insurance that covers "women's preventive services". Usually preventive care refers to measures taken to prevent illnesses. Looks like they are treating pregnancy like an illness. LOL


Soloweygirl
Obviously you have little knowledge about Obstetrics.
Perhaps you know how to get pregnant but not the consequences it can have.

Unfortunately Pregnancy is all too often looked upon as a most pleasurable event by those who do not take care of Pregnant Women.
Frequently it is not, it is a very complicated condition which can have very deadly results and permanent health issues for both Mother and Child.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Joeysomma - You only see what you want to see. You and Soleway and Counrty Bumpkin are so afraid of your own shadow that you are blindly following your fearless leaders on the extreme right. Who are you afraid of? Seems pretty obvious it's the poor and minorities to me. I would bet none of you are minorities and all of you are on the religious right. If I am wrong please correct me. The country is falling apart, why? because of all them welfare cheats and chislers, right? Be afraid, be very afraid they want everything you have and lord only knows what they will do to get it. Oh, and don't let us forget the drig addicts on meth and coke! They are bleeding you dry! Oh and all the tramps that are pushing out a baby every year just so they can get on welfare and sit and watch Jerry Springer every day. They are the worst. And all those lazy good for nothing men who get them pregnant, they are all minority because white men would nver sleep with tramps would they? Then there is Barack Hussein Obama. Black, Muslim, not an American, hates the U.S. somebody made up his whole life story from before he was ever born. They made up his birth certificate so almost 50 years after he was born he could become the President of the United States. I wonder who had that much power 50 years ago to have this done. How come he was never spotted at school or in college. That guy who went to Harvard and wrote the Harvard Law Review, he was a look alike they planted, then he was Senator from Illinois. Another part of this 50 year long plan and look where he is today. Living in the Whitehouse. What kind of people :twisted:  :hunf:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

More people will be covered and fewer people will get adequate care. Obama is ruining this country.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Be careful, LillyK, they won't recognize sarcasm!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.


LOL


----------



## cogemgal (Jun 19, 2012)

I know everyone is concerned over health care; but I've been paying my health care bill for over twenty years (it has never been affordable)....let's blame the real era when the government and the health insurance companies joined forces; let's look at history: President Richard Nixon was in office and that's the beginning of government messing in areas where they knew nothing about the health care industry. All that was being looked at was$$$$$$.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I have hope for America because of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkin

Ever realize that so many People are on Welfare because of Bush's ill management of everyting? He was given a Budget Surplus by President Clinton and Bush managed to get us into a hole which will take us at least an other decade to climb out of.

Give People jobs as President Obama has been trying to do for
along time now by repairing and improving our Infrastructure
and fewer People will be on Welfare and more Taxes are coming in.

You can toot your horn as much as you like, fact still is that you
despise People who see things differently than you and make
choices other than you.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have hope for America because of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham.


Oh really and how does he feel about People who do not believe
as he does?
It is pompous to think that Christianity is the only religion that counts.
It is also arrogant to think that every Person must have some religious belief.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> More people will be covered and fewer people will get adequate care. Obama is ruining this country.


And Cain slew his Brother Abel, go forth and do the same.
This is how the brainwashed are accepting what is being preached to them.
SOS for years now = total nonsense.

B U S H ruined not only our Counry but the economy of the World. He started idiotic Wars and is responsible for over 5,000
of our dear Soldiers to lose their lives. For What? Oil = Greed.
Now if that is not ruining on a grand scale, what it?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually Bush had growth in the economy while he allowed tax cuts. He did well.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy
If we did so well under Bush, why did Obama inherit a $1.3 TRILLION debt when he came into office??? How can you conservatives accept and tell such lies? The truth doesn't matter?? 
Deny and lie
The GOP'S cry
Deny and lie
They try to be sly
Lie and deny
The GOP'S cry
Lie and deny
Party line 'till they die


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There was a time that Bush did well. It wasn't all bad. Your "facts" must come from Obama ads on tv.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Politifact.com


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Sherbearkub
Beautiful!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Blaspheme and baby murdering. How can that be beautiful?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I was talking about the "Jesus" poster, Country, nothing else.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Politifact does not seem like a reliable website. Figures.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Be careful, LillyK, they won't recognize sarcasm!


I know, they don't recognise a lot of things

TBBRC


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/29/barack-obama/obama-inherited-deficits-bush-administration/


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> More people will be covered and fewer people will get adequate care. Obama is ruining this country.


You keep on believing that Lukelucy and God bless you for caring about your fellow man. Can you tell me what happened to Christian charity?

TBBRC


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This has nothing to do with Christian charity. It has to do with survival. Christian charity is not going to help the people who are harmed from Obama's plan.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.


From you I'll take that as a compliment. :thumbup:

TBBRC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.


You're just envious because I have a pot and you don't. Please don't hate me. I am so blest. 

TBBRC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.
> ...


You two are so funny. Thanks for the laughs. :thumbup:

TBBRC&S


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have hope for America because of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham.


Twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are up above the world so high like a diamond in the sky. Twinkle twinkle little star how I wonder what you are. See I have hope for America too Bumpkin. I wished upon a star.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > More people will be covered and fewer people will get adequate care. Obama is ruining this country.
> ...


Left says there is separation from church and state. So why would you say Christian charity was coming from tax money LillyK?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cogemgal said:


> I know everyone is concerned over health care; but I've been paying my health care bill for over twenty years (it has never been affordable)....let's blame the real era when the government and the health insurance companies joined forces; let's look at history: President Richard Nixon was in office and that's the beginning of government messing in areas where they knew nothing about the health care industry. All that was being looked at was$$$$$$.


Cogemgal - I'm not sure I follow what you mean about Nixon. Do you mean the influence Insurance lobbies have in Washington or something else?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .
> ...


AMEN Joeysomma!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> There was a time that Bush did well. It wasn't all bad. Your "facts" must come from Obama ads on tv.


When was it good? Every weekend when he was on the ranch in Texas cutting brush? He spent more time out of Washington than any president in history. I bet you believe there were dinosauers on the ark too?

TBBRC&S


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

LillyK said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Tsk, tsk, LillyK. Your pot of BS has overflowed.


TSK TSK you have a real big vocabulary there soloweygirl. Don't tax, oh I mean don't hurt yourself. Sorry, I used that three letter word that you folks don't like. :twisted:

TBBRC&S


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sherbearkub said:


> Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .


Exactly, Sherry - It's real easy to talk the talk but very hard to walk the walk. Billy Graham and Mitt Romney will save them. No worries. 

TBBRC&S


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on. Everyone knows his policies aren't working. Obama attracts the poor who want to be taken care of. And they don't admit that that's who they are!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I have hope for America because of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham.


Country Bumpkin - Was Jesus a hater too?

TBBRC&RS


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .
> ...


Oh no! So was Jesus a hater too? I thought Jesus loved people but since you know everything Joesomma I guess he was just a hate filled man. Boy that sure ruined what I have believed for years. Thanks for setting me straight on that. Does Jesus believe in Angel Maroni and the tablets of gold that that the Mormons got from his dad, God?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Boy, do I get suspicious of religious nuts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Are you like Jesus? Can you spot a sinner when you see one? I wish I had those powers. It sure would make my life a lot easier. Was Jesus a Christian or a Jew?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Boy, do I get suspicious of religious nuts.


Me too, Lukelucy, me too. I'm getting pretty scared right about now but I have a hat I made from aluminum foil and when I put it on I am a super hero and religious nuts can't see me. It's a real good thing to have with people like Michelle Bachman running around. She just lives down the road from me and she is craaaaazy!

TBBRC&RS


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lillyk Jesus loves everyone that has ever been born. He died for you just like he did me. you must have been hurt by someone to be so bitter. I am so sorry if you have.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I run from religious nuts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lillyk Jesus loves everyone that has ever been born. He died for you just like he did me. you must have been hurt by someone to be so bitter. I am so sorry if you have.


I am very happy Country Bumpkins. I have had a very wonderful life all of my life. Great family, always a roof over my head and food to eat. Then a wonderful husband, child, grandchild, friends. I couldn't ask for more. If anyone is bitter dear, it's you. You are the one who resents how unfair your life is and how abused you have been working to support all the ungrateful deadbeats in the world. I count my blessings. I was taught a long time ago to be a fool for Christ. What that means CB is that you don't judge you don't worry what that homeless man on the street is going to do with that money you hand him because you are giving that money to Christ dwelling in that man and God knows the condition of the heart of the giver and the receiver. It isn't for me to judge. How can I be unhappy when I see Christ everywhere I go and help him whenever I can? I am the lucky one. I hope someday you can feel that happiness too and stop worrying so much about yourself and what you don't have.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Thanks Joeysomma - So he never converted then? Wise move on his part. Can you spot a sinner or is that not one of your powers? Is the God of the Jews, Muslims and Christians all the same then since they all trace their roots back to Abraham?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2010/jan/29/barack-obama/obama-inherited-deficits-bush-administration/
> ...


Yeah - There is thing called interest that we are paying on the debt we have going way back to Baby George and his wars that he started. You told me how could you are with taxes and numbers you should be able to figure it out. The Chinese love all that interest that is accumulating. TBBC


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I gave the citation because I was trying to point out that Bush left a huge debt, which is a fact that can be found at various site. So, of course it's old.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Lillyk Jesus loves everyone that has ever been born. He died for you just like he did me. you must have been hurt by someone to be so bitter. I am so sorry if you have.
> ...


Well I'm happy you have a wonderful life then.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .
> ...


Does Jesus love Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Joe McCarthy? Weren't they all Conservatives?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > Whenever people bring religion into the debate (such as it is), it makes me think of this . . . .
> ...


I am continually amazed how right-wing Christians rationalize their behavior. Of course Jesus spread the wealth. That's what he was all about. You brand of Christianity has been shaped by your personal beliefs, not the example Jesus gave us. I hope you can see the light.
That's all I will say about this topic.
i'll pray for you.
Amen.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

But, also, that may be true, but he also had the economy grow at another point. Can't blame Bush for Obama's lack of economic sense.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy
He inherited a debt of $1.3 trillion. $1.3 trillion. How can that be overcome without getting revenue from somewhere? The budget and been slashed and slashed---not just "trimmed." Where is the money supposed to come from? The mint?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually, Obama grew the budget by 40% so far. This is a little known fact. He is spending like crazy and we are paying.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Actually, Obama grew the budget by 40% so far. This is a little known fact. He is spending like crazy and we are paying.


Where is your source for that figure, Lukelucy? If what you say is true prove it and please don't quote Fox news.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Not from FOX. It was on NPR - a very qualified person was speaking. Not just a no body. Sorry can't give more into.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Not from FOX. It was on NPR - a very qualified person was speaking. Not just a no body. Sorry can't give more into.


So how can I know you aren't making it up. You don't remember what you were watching or when you just remember that number?
:hunf:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I understand how you feel about me making it up. I can tell you that I am not. I'll try to look for it, but I am not sure I can find it now. It is true. 40%. Please believe me. I was astounded when I heard it.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Reading over posts it becomes very clear that some People grow steadily while others are in growth retardation.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What makes you sure that they are not?


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lillyk Jesus loves everyone that has ever been born. He died for you just like he did me. you must have been hurt by someone to be so bitter. I am so sorry if you have.


Oh, sweet gawd in heaven . . . my head just about exploded when I read this.

Jesus loves everyone that's ever been born?????? Yes, I do believe that we all children of God, or the Universe (or whatever), we are all the same, no one is any better than anybody else . . . nobody! We are all precious to the Creator (who, or whatever, that is). So that means the lazy, the addicted, the public employee, the liberal, the conservative . . . the people on whose behalf we're spreading the wealth, and the people whose wealth is being spread . . . everybody. The problem with conservatives (in my opinion) is that they think they can identify "the deserving." They can't. And they shouldn't try.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Not from FOX. It was on NPR - a very qualified person was speaking. Not just a no body. Sorry can't give more into.


What else is new?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Reading over posts it becomes very clear that some People grow steadily while others are in growth retardation.


Amen to that , sister!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I have done no research on this yet, but I think the growth of the debt under Obama is about the same as it was under Bush. Of course, the Bush budget did not include the price of the wars. The debt will continue to grow as long as the government can't create revenue. You cannot make a dent in the debt without finding money somewhere. And how do government programs get funded? The cost of everything has gone up, but nobody wants to increase taxes. The conservatives don't even want to be good citizens and PAY taxes. Remember "read my lips. . . No new taxes"? I'm no student of economics, but it makes no sense to think that government can function from year to year without increasing revenue. And those of us in the middle class are the ones supplying the most while people like the Adelsons, Romneys, etc. can pay a much lower percentage than we do. Does this make sense? I can't understand why regular, middle class people want to continue to let wealthy people get by with such a low tax rate. The only reason to support that kind of thinking would be that you're a member of the 1% club.
Amen.


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV

Are you a parent? We're only human and our love is imperfect, but seriously . . . could one of your children do anything so horrible that you could condemn him or her to hell? We can only try to possess the kind of unconditional love that we attribute to the God of our understanding. But if His love is perfect and unconditional, how can He condemn any of his creation to hell?? This is just another example of people in power seeking to control others. Hogwash.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Actually Bush had growth in the economy while he allowed tax cuts. He did well.


Oh no he didn't! If he did so well, why were in so much debt before Obama even ran for president? Take the blinders off!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If the rich supply jobs, where are they?


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

That's right, Alcameron. When Bush enacted his tax cuts, they put a ten year limit on them because they KNEW when they passed the legislation, that it would make the deficit EXPLODE. And it DID. Thank you, Mr. Bush!!! That's the conservative method of operation. . .cut taxes, expand military spending, and . . . poof! There goes the budget. Gee . . . sorry. But we don't seem to have enough to spend on education, health care or infrastructure. It's their way of shrinking government so that domestic programs are obliterated. The pimply teenage boys who read "Atlas Shrugged" in the 50's got all hot and bothered with Ayn Rand's philosophy, and then they grew up to be Alan Greenspan and Grover Norquist. Ugh


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Yup, good old Ayn Rand


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


The government is not paying for those supplies. Her insurance company is. You 3 just can't get it. It is insurance companies that will pay, not the taxpayers! What do you not understand about that? Never mind......... TBBMFC


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Government cannot be run like private business. They don't have the same goals, do they? That's why I don't understand why anyone would want a rich businessman for President. Especially one who won't release tax records or one who outsources jobs or one who's a vulture capitalist.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > ".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV
> ...


Who are you to even dare speak for God? Let me guess, he was at your house for coffee this morning? The men in their little white coats will be there to pick you up shortly.
TBBDC


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

Joeysomma said: "Increasing revenue is not the same as raising taxes. If taxes are reduced, there is more money in commerce, then there is more money in circulation to be taxed, thus raising revenue.

Holy crappoli!!! Those are not FACTS . . . lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy does not put more money into commerce. Lower taxes puts more money into their happy happy pockets. Food stamps put more money into commerce. Unemployment benefits put more money into commerce. Corporations aren't investing in America because they can find cheaper labor and resources elsewhere. And when they say corporations aren't investing because of "uncertainty" . . . I agree. When the lame-brained House Republicans are willing to put our fiscal obligations on the line . . . are willing to default . . . are willing to sell out their country . . . then, you better believe they're creating uncertainty. Good lord, what will they do next?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Time to watch the Olympics. I welcome a different type of insanity.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Brava, Sherbearkub! A voice of reason!


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

"Are you going to say "Hogwash" when you stand before God?"

For the condemnation part???? You betcha!!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Sherbearkub said:


> ".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV
> 
> Are you a parent? We're only human and our love is imperfect, but seriously . . . could one of your children do anything so horrible that you could condemn him or her to hell? We can only try to possess the kind of unconditional love that we attribute to the God of our understanding. But if His love is perfect and unconditional, how can He condemn any of his creation to hell?? This is just another example of people in power seeking to control others. Hogwash.


God is a loving God and he sends no one to hell. He gives us freewill to choose Him thru His Son Jesus. We are all sinners but those who ask for forgiveness will have Eternal life. That is the Greatness of God that He didn't make us puppets. I am no more special that anyother sinner. I was aware when I was 15 that I was a sinner and asked Jesus to forgive me for my sins. You women turn everything around to mean something that hasn't been said. Yes John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotton Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. That is what I chose but you have the freedom to not chose Him . But I would like for you to go with me to heaven when we die. I love you even don't if love me. Just because we don't agree on issues doesn't mean I can't love you or care about you. I am not being smart just what I feel. Where Obama goes in again or not God is in control. The man that wins is the one that God wants in. I am not perfect just saved by the Blood of Christ. Sinner saved by Grace.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > ".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV
> ...


I prefer to get my sermons at church, thank you. No wonder why the founding fathers separated church from state.


----------



## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

'Nighty-night . . . zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Night Sherbearcub! Sweet Dreams!


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > I have hope for America because of Jesus Christ. Billy Graham.
> ...


Even though there are no quotation marks, it appears that Country Bumpkins was simply quoting Billy Graham. If you want to research what Mr. Graham's feelings about anything else, you are free to do so.

Yes, it would be "pompous to think that Christianity is the only religion that counts," but nowhere did Country Bumpkins claim that. You are wrong to assume that having religious beliefs necessarily means a condemnation of all other religious beliefs.

Whether or not it is "arrogant to think that every Person must have some religious belief," most people by the very act of considering 'religion' will draw some conclusions that are in essence a "religious belief." If you meant participation in an organized religion, that may be a different story, but it is your CHOICE. Acknowledging your choice is not arrogance.

Freedom of religion, along with freedom of thought (to include politics and speech), means that we may each choose for ourselves what we believe. Whatever our 'reasons' are, regardless of experience,"facts," sources, web sites, etc., we all may believe whatever we want.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


Again, please tell me what "SPJBT TBBC" means.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > ".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV
> ...


Sorry to spoil your"future". There is neither Heaven nor Hell we wind up in. Those are places here we wander about while alive.
Why buy an expensive Casket with locks to keep you in the ground, when you will be getting wings to fly someplace as you
like to believe?
I got beyond those wonderful stories once I understood Evolution.
I wish to state however that I have no problem with anyone
holding on to a Religion it just no longer is part of my Life.
Acceptance, fairness and humanity is.

AND I want no Religion in Government as the right is pushing for so desperately. They are losing ground and want Government to give Religion some official acceptance.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not want religion in government. I don't know where anyone thinks that that is an issue in the presidential race. Nobody would vote for a Catholic years ago and Kennedy was a Catholic and won. 

To me there is no religious issue in this race. Ridiculous.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not want religion in government. I don't know where anyone thinks that that is an issue in the presidential race. Nobody would vote for a Catholic years ago and Kennedy was a Catholic and won.
> 
> To me there is no religious issue in this race. Ridiculous.


When the term "conservative" is used (which is constantly) it is a cover for "Christian". Check it out.
We are an Immigrant Nation and I want ALL people be represended equally by our government.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Equating Conservative with Christian is absolutely ridiculous. Never heard of such a thing. Don't believe it. That is totally in your mind. Not in anyone elses. Wow. It scares me that someone could even think that way.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Equating Conservative with Christian is absolutely ridiculous. Never heard of such a thing. Don't believe it. That is totally in your mind. Not in anyone elses. Wow. It scares me that someone could even think that way.


Oi weh.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sherbearkub said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Lillyk Jesus loves everyone that has ever been born. He died for you just like he did me. you must have been hurt by someone to be so bitter. I am so sorry if you have.
> ...


Poor, Jesus he must have a migrane. I would too if I saw how crazy Christianity is.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > I have done no research on this yet, but I think the growth of the debt under Obama is about the same as it was under Bush. Of course, the Bush budget did not include the price of the wars. The debt will continue to grow as long as the government can't create revenue. You cannot make a dent in the debt without finding money somewhere. And how do government programs get funded? The cost of everything has gone up, but nobody wants to increase taxes. The conservatives don't even want to be good citizens and PAY taxes. Remember "read my lips. . . No new taxes"? I'm no student of economics, but it makes no sense to think that government can function from year to year without increasing revenue. And those of us in the middle class are the ones supplying the most while people like the Adelsons, Romneys, etc. can pay a much lower percentage than we do. Does this make sense? I can't understand why regular, middle class people want to continue to let wealthy people get by with such a low tax rate. The only reason to support that kind of thinking would be that you're a member of the 1% club.
> ...


And just who would you lay off? TBBC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


So if you don't do this or you lived on earth before Jesus are you going to Hell? TBBRC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sherbearkub said:


> That's right, Alcameron. When Bush enacted his tax cuts, they put a ten year limit on them because they KNEW when they passed the legislation, that it would make the deficit EXPLODE. And it DID. Thank you, Mr. Bush!!! That's the conservative method of operation. . .cut taxes, expand military spending, and . . . poof! There goes the budget. Gee . . . sorry. But we don't seem to have enough to spend on education, health care or infrastructure. It's their way of shrinking government so that domestic programs are obliterated. The pimply teenage boys who read "Atlas Shrugged" in the 50's got all hot and bothered with Ayn Rand's philosophy, and then they grew up to be Alan Greenspan and Grover Norquist. Ugh


They never mention what a super freak she was. Joeysomma and the rest of you posters do you know Ayn
Rand was? She is a favorite of Paul Ryan too. No surprise there. TBBC


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Paul Ryan proudly professed to be a follower of Ayn Rand until someone pointed out what she truly said and then he tried to walk his admiration back. 
Either one more step to the right or a few more by the right Right walking back and they will all be falling off of the Earth.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

LillyK said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


For starters, Congress, and I mean both houses. They certainly are not doing their job.

The debt will continue to grow as long as the government continues to overspend. Basic math.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This step thing sounds crazy, again.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

But how much slashing can the budget take? We're already slashing programs that hurt people. Is that what we want? I believe we're at a point at which slashing isn't an option. And that's where Democrats and republicans disagree. Nothing will get passed by congress that makes Obama look good. That's been the republican goal for the past 4 years--and the hell with the people and the country. Just keep that military well-funded and everything else will be OK. Actually, the republicans don't even want to increase services for vets.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkin
> 
> Ever realize that so many People are on Welfare because of Bush's ill management of everyting? He was given a Budget Surplus by President Clinton and Bush managed to get us into a hole which will take us at least an other decade to climb out of.
> 
> ...


Bush also had a Democratic House and Senate when things really started going south.

The president's list of jobs is nothing to brag about. His job history with "green" jobs is awful, his shovel ready jobs never happened, his outsourcing of jobs speak for themselves. Add to this his war on oil and coal industries and you get a dismal picture of his job growth.

Your last paragraph describes you perfectly.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Actually Bush had growth in the economy while he allowed tax cuts. He did well.
> ...


The Democratic House and Senate had an awful lot to do with that. Time for you to take your blinders off!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

There can be a lot of budget slashing for the better. Let's stop fighting everyone's war for one.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Sherbearkub said:


> Joeysomma said: "Increasing revenue is not the same as raising taxes. If taxes are reduced, there is more money in commerce, then there is more money in circulation to be taxed, thus raising revenue.
> 
> Holy crappoli!!! Those are not FACTS . . . lower taxes on corporations and the wealthy does not put more money into commerce. Lower taxes puts more money into their happy happy pockets. Food stamps put more money into commerce. Unemployment benefits put more money into commerce. Corporations aren't investing in America because they can find cheaper labor and resources elsewhere. And when they say corporations aren't investing because of "uncertainty" . . . I agree. When the lame-brained House Republicans are willing to put our fiscal obligations on the line . . . are willing to default . . . are willing to sell out their country . . . then, you better believe they're creating uncertainty. Good lord, what will they do next?


 Food stamps and unemployment put more money into commerce? Did you get this from the Nancy Pelosi book of economics? Are you for real?????


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> This step thing sounds crazy, again.


Everything one does not understand sounds crazy.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, it does put more money into commerce. Raise taxes and companies start letting people go. Slows growth. Business 101.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Ever notice that some People's mind is like a hoolahoop?
Everything is just a circle.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, it does put more money into commerce. Raise taxes and companies start letting people go. Slows growth. Business 101.


Oi weh.
No business EVER lets people go because of Taxes. Never ever.
It shows the World you have been living in when you make such
weird statements.
Do yourself a great favor and stop repeating nonsense others feed you. You will look soooooooo much better.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Again, that sentence sounds crazy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Again, that sentence sounds crazy.


TBBRFC


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Gee, must be a new language. What was she trying to say?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Equating Conservative with Christian is absolutely ridiculous. Never heard of such a thing. Don't believe it. That is totally in your mind. Not in anyone elses. Wow. It scares me that someone could even think that way.


You need to take the bag off your head and look around and listen. The far right wing is maniacally Christian. In other words, twisting the words of the bible to suit themselves. Bachmann is trying to start a holy war here in the US with her insane allegations of the Muslim Brotherhood infiltrating Washington.
For someone who likes to post here alot, you have nothing but hot air to share. No facts to back up your statements ever.
Why not go to another thread . You're really good at stirring the pot.
TBBC


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't like the far right wing. One can be Conservative and not be far right. There is an in-between. I do not profess to be anything. I am just using my logic and knowledge and am nonpartisan. I don't care about political parties. I do not like what Obama is doing to ME.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

And what is it that he did to you?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

He is taking away the health care that I spent my life working for (as I said I am certain his new plan will take away good health care fore me and mine) and he is raising taxes that he says are not taxes. 

Frankly, he supports the underdog without concern for everyone. His kind.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

He is not taking away healthcare. If you already have health care, you won't be affected, only now you as a woman will have BETTER healthcare ie; free mammograms, papsmears, cancer screenings, etc. The insurance companieswill cover this, not the taxpayers. 
Our ex Republican governor, Tim Pawlenty said he would never raise taxes here in MN, but he did and called them fees. I have not seen or heard Obama say anything about raising taxes or fees. The only one's who would be paying their FAIR share of taxes would be the uber wealthy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I get mine from shows like "Meet the Press" and "Face the Nation" where both sides are given fair chance to speak. Sites like factcheck.org. Michele Bchmann.com, etc. Actually I go to Bachmann's site when I need a good laugh.
TBBC


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy

What is it President Obama did to you?
Changed the color of the Man in the White House?
Is that your problem?
The President has done no harm to anyone. In fact he saved many, many Lives by eliminating Bin Laden and pulling out of Iraq and leaving Afghanistan.
It is Bush/Cheney who caused the death of over 5,000 dear
Soldiers and it is right wingers who do not like the fact that
many Military Families are in need of subsidies for housing and food.
The President has been looking out for us "the not rich" people.
He is deserving of applaud for it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well said, Ingried!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Lukelucy

Facts is what is missing from all of your answers.
We are not here to give you full lessons. Ever figured out where you can find everything you ever want to know by using your Computer? But then you must be looking for well balanced information and that is something you seem to always refuse to do.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Joeysomma,
It is obvious that you are just not getting it at all. No matter what we tell you or when we post links for you, you just don't get it. I think you like to argue, which is a far cry from debating. I take the time to read the bills that are out there, which are fact. You on the other hand want everyone else to do your research for you. If you noticed the sources I posted, you will see that they are non partisan, where you and soloweygirl and Bumpkin are posting far right wing sites, which are very biased and flat out crazy.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> He is taking away the health care that I spent my life working for (as I said I am certain his new plan will take away good health care fore me and mine) and he is raising taxes that he says are not taxes.
> 
> Frankly, he supports the underdog without concern for everyone. His kind.


Lukelucy
I agree with you about the war. We need to end it and not fight everyone's war.
I wonder what you mean by "his kind" in your last sentence, quoted above. I think underdogs, or people less fortunate, need to be supported.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > He is taking away the health care that I spent my life working for (as I said I am certain his new plan will take away good health care fore me and mine) and he is raising taxes that he says are not taxes.
> ...


Lukelucy

Now I begin to wonder if you are actually in the USA.
But then when it comes to Race, I never find Racism as pronounced as here anywhere-else and you clearly point to your dislikes for others who are not like you frequently.

Trying to elevate yourself by stomping on others will not
do it. Education is key.
Just like carrying a Bible does not a Christian make.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Northwoods Gal said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


You obviously need to do some rereading. I have never posted anything from right wing sites. In fact I do not read them. I do however, post from the government sites and statistics from the Dept. of Labor. If you consider those far right wing sites, you just don't get it at all.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Joeysomma,
The atmosphere in here is getting very dense. There have been links posted for you by us. However, if a link is not posted with a comment, what stops you from looking it up and checking it? Laziness. I have factchecked your posts to no end. When nothing comes back, it is then that I ask for you to back it up. Have I accused you of 'lying' as you questioned me about lying? I have no need to lie.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Joeysomma,
> ...


This makes no sense, but I would expect that from you. I am not going to argue or fight with you, because it changes nothing. Blue sites that you can click on? ROFLMAO. Maybe you should take a computer class to learn how to do it on your own. TBBS


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I listen to informative programs NPR etc. I don't quote things unless I know they are true. Don't read trash.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Joeysomma,
> ...


Joeysomma

What is it with you always misreading what one writes!
You would not know a lie if it bit you in the rump. You just
pass on what others tell you without checking its truth first.
It may not be your lie but a lie nevertheless.

You are sticking to your sources like Velcro to itself.
Nothing else matters to you - poor soul.

Not everything on OUR side is as pure as fresh fallen Snow
either but at least we continue our education and keep growing
and work on changes for the better. Try it, you may like it.
It would be nice to see progress.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

There is an interesting link which just opened today -- I would ask the 3 or4 
right wing members who are complaining about having bums cost them so much money - and who are sick and tired of it -- please go read this link.

This is what I was trying to say to Country Bumpkins and joesomma the other night when we were discussing obama care. Designer

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-100263-1.html


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

We don't flock to the US for care unless we are wealthy. We have a good health care system that we have had for ages. It is a recession here and so there are wait problems for some non
life threatning care -so wealthy people go to the States for some 
surgeries because they don't want to wait. Quite a lot of it is for face lifts, etc. although some is for procedures that might have a fairly long wait for the surgery. Here the rich stand in line like the rest of us do. 

If they are really ill, cancer, heart problems life threatening illnesses or need for care - we get help right way. Ask me how I know! Designer.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > There is an interesting link which just opened today -- I would ask the 3 or4
> ...


Food stamps can only be used for food. Not diapers, toilet paper, drugs, cigarettes, etc. That's why they call them "Food Stamps". By the way hungry is what children are, Hungary is a country.
It seems like you guys don't mind ragging on people who may be getting more than they should, but have no problem with the rich robbing you blind.


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## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

Joeysomma,

By the sounds of it, you have a few more lifetimes to go.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma - In case you didn't notice yet Designer is Canadian and the link she provided is talking about hunger in America. Why are you and other so called Christians so afraid that somebody is going to take something away from you? Where does that fear come from. Have you always been afraid. Was there a time in your life that you had to do without and you are afraid that may happen to you again. How many people do you believe are taking things away from you? Where is your so called Christian charity? Does it exist anymore? I know people here in MN who have lost very good paying jobs with good benefits who for the first time in their lives are having to go to food shelves and will be buying their kids clothes at Good Will or Salvation Army to start school in if they can even afford that. I live in a large metro area and the majority of the poor here are new poor because of all the jobs that were sent out of the country and if they find a job they don't earn what they used to and are scraping by. We have food shelves that can hardly keep up with the demand and many churches serve meals once or twice a week to anyone who comes. Other churches have clothes closets that people can come to for clothing. Our unemployment offices also have clothes closets so people who are trying to find work can borrow an outfit to wear for interviews. Maybe we are more charitable here than in WI. Your governor is a real piece of work as is Paul Ryan. Our dear Michelle Bachman and her husband get a welfare check from the government to not farm land that they own. I suppose you don't have problem with that. Country Bumpkin is the only one of you who even seems to have a heart. The rest of you give me the chills. I feel like you have ice in your veins. What has happened to you? It's very sad.


joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > There is an interesting link which just opened today -- I would ask the 3 or4
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Sherbearkub said:
> 
> 
> > ".....for whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have eternal life." KJV
> ...


I believe in order to deal with people like you God must have a very good sense of humor. I also don't need anyone to die for my sins. Do you know that the God/Son of God idea goes way back before Jesus. It's a very old belief and you may want to educate yourself about it. I think God is loving not like the fake Christians of today. There are many ways to heaven. God would never send anyone to Hell because they were born before Jesus. Do you believe God would be that cruel? When I see God I think I will say ah Hogwash, God and my God will give a big hearty laugh and say welcome, LillyK. That's my God, he loves everyone and nobody had to die.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

What is the religious right then Lukelucy? They even call themselves that? Michelle Bachman is one and she brags about it. I agree it is wrong to mix in religion but it is rearing it's ugly head once again. Bachman thinks there is a terrorist hiding in every corner. I'm more afraid of her than of any terrorist. That wman is out of her mind. I wish she would move to WI. She would fit in very well over there.


Lukelucy said:


> I do not want religion in government. I don't know where anyone thinks that that is an issue in the presidential race. Nobody would vote for a Catholic years ago and Kennedy was a Catholic and won.
> 
> To me there is no religious issue in this race. Ridiculous.


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## Sherbearkub (Feb 17, 2012)

Nancy,

When I lived in Ann Arbor, I used to ride the bus to work, and I never felt as close to God in church as I did on the bus. God shows himself to us in the faces of other people. I rode the bus with God . . . God was going to his appointment with his probation officer, or going to work as a waitress in a diner, or taking the kids to school or daycare (yes, on public transit), or meeting up with his drug supplier, or keeping a doctor's appointment. God was there, in everybody. 

When Joeysomma makes assumptions about hungry children, she makes it harder for me to "see" God in her. But I have to believe God is there (somewhere, in some little bitty corner shining a little bitty light that keeps getting hidden by self-righteousness), or I'll be wrong about it all. 

Knock knock . . . You in there, God????


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Lukelucy-- are you sure your second name isn't Sharky?? you sound more and more like him/her


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

They say Bachmann has raised 1 million for her congress campaign. But Jim Graves will raise much more and her opponents in the Rep primary race are asking voters of ALL parties to vote her out. She has opened a hornets nest with her comment "Muslims are infiltrating the halls of Washington." Now the far right maniacals are crawling out of the woodwork. I don't think that the incident in Wisconsin will be the last. She needs to be held accountable for this. These people were gunned down because they looked like Muslims. Fearmongering, a very republican maneuver.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I listen to informative programs NPR etc. I don't quote things unless I know they are true. Don't read trash.


Lukelucy

Oh really?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I so agree Northwoods Gal - Actually,most Muslims do not wear turbans but they wear prayer caps or yamakas as Jewish men do. After I checked out what religions wear turbins there are several that do. Sihks do not cut their hair and they wrap their hair up in the turbin. Sadly, it seems that our misguided Christians put everyone together that does not look like them and seem to consider them all terrorists. It's sad that they don't understand this but when you have Bachman out there crying wolf she is getting everyone all whipped up into a frenzy of fear. Just what the GOP wants. Be afraid, be very afraid. TBBRC&ST


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy, as I said before, take your blinders off. Of course religion has very much to do with this race. Not about Romney being Mormon, but the far right wing radical religious groups being tied to the Tea Party members of both the Republican house and Senate.

LillyK, I agree that Joeysomma is in good company with Walker and Ryan. 
We are seing more and more homeless in my area. The problem with getting help as a homeless person outside of churches is they can't get help. You have to have an address to get any kind of state or county assistance.
There are more homes being abandoned because people can't make the payments. And I am not talking about those who bought the McMansions that they couldn't afford. I am talking about small modest houses in old neighborhoods.
A paper mill that employed hundreds burned down a couple of months ago. Unemployment can only carry them for so long.
These are people who lost their jobs by no fault of their own. There are very few jobs here. So more homes will be taken back by the banks and more people will be living on the street. The Salvation Army can only house and feed so many and the old convent now called The Place of Hope is filled with families. The food shelves are pleading for food. These aren't bums or freeloaders. These are the people who have paid taxes and lost their jobs. Churches will provide Friday night soup nights because their donations are down.
And Joey thinks these people should not get any help?
If that is , then don't admit that and use God in the same sentence. It just doesn't fit.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Yeah - Bachman should be real proud of all the people that she and the GOP have put out of work and out of their homes. I was shocked when I heard how many homeless people there are in the north suburbs. Lots of people living in cars and vacant buildings. All the shelters fill up and have to turn people away. They are trying to figure out where they can house people this winter. I have never seen things this bad and it didn't have to happen. That's the saddest thing of all. If Mitt gets in we will all be in soup lines right along with joeysomma and boy will she be surprised when she finds out who the real scary people are. She doesn't have a clue. TBBRC


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am a teacher whose school gives food before tests. The reason why we give it is the fear of kids not testing well and then going on report to the state and then becomming an identified school. The threat is job loss. 

So, it is not for the kids ultimately, it's to keep jobs! It is the result of No Child Left Behind Act that does not work. I realize it is Bush who put this act through and Obama continues.

The food is to boost performance - 

Not all reports say the way it really is. Many schools are doing this - I bet from wealthy communities too where kids eat caviar.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, kids come to school without food because parents don't take care of the kids. Kids have poor parenting. They stay up late on computers, don't get up on time and run to go to school. I have had many kids just not want to eat especially breakfast.

I have taught in ghettos and believe me - all kids are fed breakfast and lunch. The government has been supplying food since I have started teaching 40 years ago. 

The kid who said he'd rather drink the milk is just being smart.

I have not met a kid in 40 years who was poor and had no food. Their families had food stamps and school supplied food. 

That link is pure opinion and not fact.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup. The line is going to be very lon here. We'll be waiting a long time for help. We cannot take care of everyone adequately.

I don't know what country you are from, but in the UK I hear that if you live in say Kensington, you have better care than East London. In other words the rich have better care. And people there do pay under the table.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Here is a little blue site that you can click on and read the law. the program was started in 1964.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/food_stamps


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, of course the rich travel for better health care. They don't just travel for face lifts. They come to the US because we do better in many areas. 

I hope you don't think that everyone will get the same health care treatment just because "everone will be taken care of". Ha Ha ha....


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## Zelana (May 5, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't know what country you are from, but in the UK I hear that if you live in say Kensington, you have better care than East London. In other words the rich have better care. And people there do pay under the table.


I live in the UK & I can tell you that you are wrong. The rich don't get better care but they can pay for quicker appointments, private rooms & better food. No-one pays 'under the table' as anyone can be seen privately if they wish to to pay or they belong to an insurance scheme like BUPA. http://www.bupa.co.uk

Things do vary from place to place because of the different ways the hospitals manage things. When I needed a gynaecological appointment my local hospital phoned me the day after I'd seen my GP with an appointment for the following week. A friends daughter got a letter over a week ago to tell her that her recent smear test had shown abnormal cells - she's still waiting for a letter with an appointment date. Different area - different ways of contacting people.

Our NHS isn't perfect but no-one ends up in debt because they needed medical treatment & no-one is refused treatment.

Read this woman's story http://www.thisisgrimsby.co.uk/71-o...mity-Fiona-s/story-16648096-detail/story.html


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

People are paying under the table. You just don't know about it. From what I am told what you say is different from others experience.


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## Zelana (May 5, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> People are paying under the table. You just don't know about it. From what I am told what you say is different from others experience.


I can only go by what myself & my family & friends have experienced after all we do live in the UK. If anyone wants private care they can pay for it legitimately so why would anyone need to pay under the table?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know why. Perhaps ypu are correct there, but the care is not all the same for all.


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## Zelana (May 5, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I don't know why. Perhaps ypu are correct there, but the care is not all the same for all.


I've only lived in 9 different areas of the UK, been an in-patient in 5 different hospitals, an out-patient at 3 others & taken my children to a couple of other hospitals when they were small so what would I know about UK medical care.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am not an expert on your System, but it has its problems and everyone is not created equal with it. My friend sees it as really starting to have problems. As I write I am sitting in an emergency room with mt husband on morphine glad that I am here in the USA. His treatment is great.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, why does our British friend want to move here to the USA for his health care when he has to pay for it and he has been paying into his system?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy
I can't believe that you've been a teacher for 40 years and have such a cynical, narrow view of the world. You can't take one example and make it into a fact. Didn't you teach your kids the difference between fact and fiction? lies and the truth? Deductive reasoning? I am a retired speech/language pathologist who worked in the public schools for 30 yrs. I've worked in "Title One" schools and "upper middle class" schools. I never met a teacher who thought the reason for feeding kids was that s/he might lose her job. Yes, they feed kids because we have kids who don't get food at home and we want them to do a good job, that's true. I think you have a very warped view of poor kids and their families and how they should be treated. I hope you treated all kids equally and showed no ill will to some according to your attitudes.
More later . . . .


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am just stating why the admin decided to feed the kids before testing. It was not my idea. I am just saying what happened. Why are you blaming me. Our admin is the pits and i cannot hep what they are.

I have worked in Title I schools and I found kids well taken care of.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you Joeysomma. I have never Come across such vicious people in my life. I will not respond to them again. There were so many other responses to what I wrote. Such as "Sorry you had that experience." etc. These people are scary and I'm glad I don't have them in my immediate surroundings. I am so disheartened that there are people like this in the world. They are cynical and project it on me!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am a teacher whose school gives food before tests. The reason why we give it is the fear of kids not testing well and then going on report to the state and then becomming an identified school. The threat is job loss.
> 
> So, it is not for the kids ultimately, it's to keep jobs! It is the result of No Child Left Behind Act that does not work. I realize it is Bush who put this act through and Obama continues.
> 
> ...


Lukelucy
May I ask which grade you teach?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Thank you Joeysomma. I have never Come across such vicious people in my life. I will not respond to them again. There were so many other responses to what I wrote. Such as "Sorry you had that experience." etc. These people are scary and I'm glad I don't have them in my immediate surroundings. I am so disheartened that there are people like this in the world. They are cynical and project it on me!


Lukelucy
Really?
May I point out that it is People like us who bring about changes
for the good of all of Society while you sit on your duff and keep
doing and thinking the SOS same old stuff over and over again.
If the Pilgrims would have had your attitude we all would still be in those early days.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am a teacher whose school gives food before tests. The reason why we give it is the fear of kids not testing well and then going on report to the state and then becomming an identified school. The threat is job loss.
> 
> So, it is not for the kids ultimately, it's to keep jobs! It is the result of No Child Left Behind Act that does not work. I realize it is Bush who put this act through and Obama continues.
> 
> ...


Lukelucy

...and you go along with such manipulation? Shame on you.
Children should be fed because they need food and are hungry and not because some Principal (Schoolboard) wants them to test well. What part of the Country are you living in?
I call this child abuse on a grand scale.

And you still underwrite a Party which will make life much worse for the NOT RICH?
We have not seen so many Needy since the Great Depression and who brought all of this on? Bush/Cheney and their Gang
and the new Republican Crowd will make Life worse, much worse for 99% of us and create even greater wealth for the
remaining 1%. You sure seem to have no regards for your fellow Children.
Now show me where your Bible condones such behavior.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I just don't want to reply any more. Anything I say is not respected.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I just don't want to reply any more. Anything I say is not respected.


Lukelucy

Pointing out facts has nothing to do with disrespect.
It just happens that reality can be painful and I have no
intentions of quitting pointing out shortcomings in our Society.
And if you are a Teacher, you of all People should get involved
in fixing what ails us. Hungry Children should concern each and every one of us. Using Children simply for statistics is not acceptable. Not were I come from.
I am my Brother's Keeper.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am just stating why the admin decided to feed the kids before testing. It was not my idea. I am just saying what happened. Why are you blaming me. Our admin is the pits and i cannot hep what they are.
> 
> I have worked in Title I schools and I found kids well taken care of.


Lukelucy
You go along with every ill plan the Adm. puts before you?
We are not blaming you, we are expecting you to speak up.
And if you cannot accomplish change from within, go to the outside and reveal. The Press is always eager to get News.
Children should be fed always and not just to enhance statistics
I give a hoot about statistics, I worry about hungry Children and so should you. 
"What you do to the least among you, you do to me".

Standing by and doing nothing, changes nothing. You have a voice, use it loud and clear. You will be surprised how many
supporters you gather in the process and how many true Friends you will find.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am gone from this website. Bye bye.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am gone from this website. Bye bye.


Lukelucy
Bowing out should be no option for you. 
Never retreat when you think that you are right.
Just show us where we are wrong and we will examine it and
see what we should do.
Learning is on ongoing process for all of us.
You say you are a Teacher, would you accept it if one of your Students just would give up?
Life is a challenge, approach it as such.
I have no ill feelings towards you, I just want you to step in when
things are wrong - like hungry Children being USED.
I applaud you for writing about it. It is a step in the right direction. Obviously you do no find that appropriate, so try to change it.
I hope you can understand that.
From my Heart.
Ingried


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy
Sometimes anyone working in the public schools for many years gets cynical. I really was commenting on your view that children being fed at school has to do with job loss and not for the welfare of the children. You come across as being pretty blunt, direct, and opinionated. I only hope that you really love children and want them to learn. Having food and a place to sleep should be a prerequisite to appropriate learning conditions.
I have also worked for many different administrators and some of them are pretty concerned with "looking good" and having their schools look good. I agree that sometimes that becomes more important than the actual job of educating children, I think we might agree on something!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy
> ...


Joeysomma your insecurity in your own belief in your political party is showing. You must think you are standing on some pretty shaky ground. You are the one who can never come up with support for what you believe politically. The very few times you have "proved" your sources you go to the extreme right wing of the GOP and pull out the same old stale hand fed party line that you all follow like a bunch of baby ducklings. God forbid you question anything they tell you is true. You are marching around like a bunch of zombies. Think for yourself. Get a different perspective on what is going on in the World. If you think Romney is going to save you from the evil you so fear I believe you are sadly mistaken. If that man gets in to office the country will really take a dive off the cliff. Europe's economy is in terrible shape and that will also impact us. I know you like to blame everything on Obama but all this bad stuff started long before he took office and you must not know how your government is set up or you would understand that the president of the U.S., no matter who he is does not have a magic wand he can wave and make everything the way you want it. The president also cannot solve all the other problems going on in the World that directly impact us. Do you understand there are so many scenarios that can play out all over the World that we have no control over? 
I am standing on solid ground and no politician or anyone else tells me what to believe. I use my God given intelligence and my moral compass to know what I need to do. I have voted Democratic, Independent and even Republican before the party went to the Tea Party. All the normal old school Republicans are being kicked out of your party by this wave of ultra conservatives who want to create a theocracy and tell everyone how they must live in their private lives and who they must obey. Terrorists don't scare me but your new party does because it is destroying the U.S from inside. 
No body is picking on you here. You and your friends have said very unkind things to me but I am a grown woman and I can carry on a conversation quite nicely with you or anyone else and do it in a civil manner. If you cannot do that why are you out here? Are you trying to learn anything? I am. I have actually seen some good and interesting information in the posts from the right. I hope your day will improve and you can do something that makes you happy. Just unwatch this thread if it upsets you. TBBC


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

For several years now I have observed that the Right has been chained tightly to its base. Dare they think on their own.
That would call for capital punishment.
Inititaly I thought that is only the "ilttle guys" who are handcuffed, Romney is an example however that it goes all the way through that establishment.
It is rather scary to see how hogtide so many have become.
They all have been saying exactly the same for 4 years now, never vary and have been clobbered into submission and do not even know it.
And as in History it is the churches being used to accomplish
brainwashing to the utmost.
That is how Dictatorships come about.
The biggest problem is down the road if someone like Romney
would become our President. It would take years to undo all the damage they will have done to our Nation.
We quickly will be involved in more Wars and he Draft will be reinstated to support such conflicts. 

Who of sound mind would support such a future?


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> I just don't want to reply any more. Anything I say is not respected.


Lukelucy when you hook on to topics that you cannot know anything about - other than second hand mis-information from your friend - such as UK health care, then no, your opinion will not be respected.
To say health care is better for those living in "wealthy" areas is preposterous. Waiting list length may vary in different health areas, but this does not concern those with private insurance, they need not wait.
Having worked for the NHS for many years I ask this of you, please do not disparage the National Health System of the United Kingdom, you have no right to do so, you are an American citizen, as such, you ought not be critical of your allies.
Please leave the UK alone and concentrate on your American politics


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I am a teacher whose school gives food before tests. The reason why we give it is the fear of kids not testing well and then going on report to the state and then becomming an identified school. The threat is job loss.
> ...


What does the Bible have to do with it? Remember the separation of church and state would prevent the School Board or other administrators from considering it.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't want to reply any more. Anything I say is not respected.
> ...


Do you apply the same standard to yourself and others who are NOT US citizens and are frequently inserting your opinions of OUR healthcare, OUR policies, OUR politicians here on KP?

"Please leave the UK alone and concentrate on your American politics." Well?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


I did not address any School Board did I, I addressed an individual.
Oi weh.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Lukelucy

Obviously you are spewing 2nd or even 3rd hand knowledge or even made up stuff. The time for Americans - and I live in the USA - to feel superior to anyone are over forever - get used to it. We are now just one of many Nations.
The UK has a fabulous Health Care System compared to ours but then most People in the USA do not ever even leave their State much less their Country to become informed first hand.
I have lived and worked in a number of countries with Universal Health Care and all of those systems work extremely well for ALL people.
They are not perfect, that is not possible to achieve but all of those countries are making periodic changes to keep abreast 
with medical advancements and ever older populations.

I find it astounding that folks who are ill informed always are quick in trying to put others down, no matter what the subject is. They never seem to learn either that the well informed quickly spot a shill.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

GardenGirl said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


yep


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


The subject of Lukelucy's post was the feeding of children at schools prior to tests and the reasons for that. This was followed by your accusatory questioning whether Lukelucy went "along with such manipulation," followed by " Shame on you." You called this "child abuse on a grand scale."

Apparently out of habit, you digressed to rant about "Bush/Cheney and their Gang and the new Republican Crowd."

You then returned to the topic and ended with:

"You sure seem to have no regards for your fellow Children. 
Now show me where your Bible condones such behavior."

I did not say you addressed the School Board. Of course you addressed an individual. You interjected the "Schoolboard" into the conversation.

So I ask again: What does the Bible have to do with it? "Oi weh!"


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

tryalot said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > tryalot said:
> ...


Thank you!! I appreciate your fair response.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


Does not the Bible tell us that we are our Brother's Keeper?
Allowing anyone "using" children for some very selfish reasons is not acceptable. Feeding hungry children just because they have to perform a test is despicable.
How can anyone who calls themselves a Christian look on and do nothing? That is my reference to the Bible.
And if you practice Religion, everything you do in your Life should be guided by it. That is what the Bible has to do with it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup. The line is going to be very lon here. We'll be waiting a long time for help. We cannot take care of everyone adequately.
> 
> I don't know what country you are from, but in the UK I hear that if you live in say Kensington, you have better care than East London. In other words the rich have better care. And people there do pay under the table.


Lukelucy - I have been to England more than once and we go to visit friends who live there. It is true that care varies in different parts of England. That is because the various areas contract with local hospitals, clinics, dentists, doctors in their area so they can save money. In other words they compete for the contract and that helps keep costs down. If you need a procedure or care not offered where you live your doctor will refer you to a facility where you can get that care. People pay tax from their paychecks into the National Health Insurance. Or if self employed you pay in yourself. What you pay is based on your previous year's earnings. For 2012 if you make less than a certain amount you pay no tax. You pay for weekly earnings between $292 and $1635 at 12%, earnings in excess of the taxable base range are taxed at 2% for the this year. So if I earned $1635/wk I would have $125/ wk in tax withheld or $6500/yr. for family coverage. I converted pounds to dollars so my numbers could be slightly off. They also get various tax credits when they file their taxes to offset the healthcare tax. Women and widows also get special rates. My husband and I paid $7592/yr just for the two of us plus copays and deductibles. Great Britain has the oldest national healthcare in the World and started shortly after WWII. Our friends and other British people we met had very few complaints about their healthcare. They may not have all the bells and whistles that so many of us have become used to in hospitals but they receive good care. Also, they don't have the overloaded emergency rooms we do because of people here showing up for treatment that have no coverage. Their medical outcomes are far better than ours and infant mortality is much lower than in the U.S.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


The connection between the Bible and Christian values is a given. The purpose of my question to you about your attempt to connect the topic at hand with the Bible was to draw attention to your flagrant attempt to bait Lukelucy.
"Now show me where your Bible condones such behavior" sounds like a taunt to me.

Conservatives may or may not be "Christians" and may or may not read the Bible. Your attempt to discredit or show disdain for conservatives by interjecting comments about the Bible are not only very transparent but offensive.

If you want to discuss the Bible or Christian values, start a thread on it.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Yup. The line is going to be very lon here. We'll be waiting a long time for help. We cannot take care of everyone adequately.
> ...


LillyK
I have Relatives living in England, Niece, husband and 4 children
and his parents and they have no complaints about their Health Care. 
And you are right, waiting in the ER as we do here, is unheard of.
In fact in some Countries one must be seen by a Physician in the ER within 15 minutes of arrival or the Hospital must pay a penalty and if it would happen too often that care is not immediate, the Hospital may lose its license.
And preventive care truly prevents catastrophic illnesses quite often. That in itself is a life-saver as well a keeping cost down.
We are far behind but ACA will get us there - not fast enough for me - but at least we are making the first steps in the proper direction.
We are having company coming tomorrow from Europe and I will get even more up to date details.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Prove it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yup. The line is going to be very lon here. We'll be waiting a long time for help. We cannot take care of everyone adequately.
> 
> I don't know what country you are from, but in the UK I hear that if you live in say Kensington, you have better care than East London. In other words the rich have better care. And people there do pay under the table.


No they don't. I have been there and my husband lived there. We go there to visit firends and you are making that up. People in GB can purchase private Health insurance and always have been able to but they also all are in the NHI. I know what I am talking about. Why are you making things up. I have been to Kensington and the East End so I know the difference in the areas and in another post I sent to you I explain why the costs vary. It does not matter however because what someone pays for NHI is based on a percentage of income.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Also, of course the rich travel for better health care. They don't just travel for face lifts. They come to the US because we do better in many areas.
> 
> I hope you don't think that everyone will get the same health care treatment just because "everone will be taken care of". Ha Ha ha....


You are correct lukelucy. Mitt Romney and the rich have always received the best healthcare just as the rich have always done. Seriously, what is wrong with you? TBBC


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


I'm not sure about any stories about this on the news, but here in California the easy way to circumvent the intended limitations of food stamps is to trade for other products or sell for cash. The people who are inclined to "cheat" can usually find a way... I am NOT saying that all or even most food stamp recipients are in this category, just that it is happening.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Prove it. I don't believe you. TBBC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


So if a few people do this how big an impact does it have on you. I would be more concerned about tax cheats and 
people who work but get paid under the table so they and the employer don't pay any tax. That has a lot bigger impact on us than some, not worth mentioning amount of someone selling their food stamps. Get real. TBBRC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't want to reply any more. Anything I say is not respected.
> ...


Tryalot - For once I agree with you. I have been back and forth to England and my husband lived there. We have many friends there and we have talked a lot about our lack of National Health and their NHI. From what I have heard and seen I am ashamed that so many in the GOP want to get rid of our new healthcare. Our friends like what they have and in a post I made to Lukelucy I told him different areas contract out with NHI so prices can vary but that has to do with what the contracted hospitals, doctors, etc. are paid by NHI not what a person pays. Our friends have their amount of tax taken out of their pay based on their prior years earnings. If they want to they can purchase health insurance but currently only 8% do so I think most people must be pretty happy with NHI. They also have better healthcare and do it for much less than what we pay here. They also think it's crazy that if you lose your job you also lose your insurance. Give me national health any day. We need to get into the current century. GOP wants to take us backwards.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


How many times have you been to Great Britain, Lukelucy?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Garden Girl in case you haven't noticed the Tea Party religious right in the GOP are the ones who have pulled religion into the politics in your country. Where have you been? If they could get away with it they would make the U.S. a theocracy. They bring it up all the time so all Ingried is doing is calling them out on it because they don't practice what they preach. TBBRC


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Northwoods Gal said:
> ...


LillyK
You will be waiting for a long time for anyone to come up with proof. These allegations have been made for decades and never panned out.
Must be coming from some of those non-reliable sources again.
YEARS ago there were a few stores who bought the food stamps from people for half their worth but that was stopped
rather quickly. Too much at stake for stores to redeem the stamps for items they are not meant for.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Very true, Ingried.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


Where there is money to be made there are Folks who will get their hands on it BUT cheating when it comes to food stamps is
nothing compared to how the rich cheat at every turn.
Hang around the Rich and you can't believe they ways they find not to pay Taxes and I am talking about big Tax bills they are circumventing.
It would take thousands of food stamp recipient cheats to equal just one very wealthy cheater. One way they do it on a regular basis is in property sales and acquisitions. They totally avoid paying Taxes on the gaines.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

LillyK said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Please read what I wrote more carefully. My comment was in response to a particular exchange here within this thread which did not have anything to do with or include any references to "the Tea Party religious right in the GOP." She and you are drawing conclusions where there are none.

Whether food was offered to students prior to testing in some schools has nothing to do with the Bible, even if you assume that all of the school administrators are Christians.

Depicting this feeding of children as "child abuse on a grand scale" is Ingried's opinion only, and Lukelucy's reporting of it does not warrant Ingried writing "Shame on you" to Lukelucy, or any other innuendoes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Providing the children with breakfast at school (in the schools I am familiar with) occurs at certain schools that are "low income" schools. This is an attempt to give children a dose of nutrition to start their school day in the hope that it'll enable them to learn better. I have not witnessed this in higher income areas. It is most likely a federal program and the area I'm familiar with did it throughout the school year, not just for test days.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> For several years now I have observed that the Right has been chained tightly to its base. Dare they think on their own.
> That would call for capital punishment.
> Inititaly I thought that is only the "ilttle guys" who are handcuffed, Romney is an example however that it goes all the way through that establishment.
> It is rather scary to see how hogtide so many have become.
> ...


The exact same can be said of the left. Opposite ends, yet so similar. Perhaps this is why the country is so divided.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Republicans in Congress have not compromised on one thing the whole time Obama has been in office. That's why nothing has gotten done. They have not only contributed to polarization of our country they have gleefully led the way. Their willingness to put our country in jeopardy by abstaining from compromising on ANYTHING is not only unpatriotic it is, in my opinion, akin to treason. I put the blame for everything that has been put to a standstill directly on the shoulders of the republicans in Congress.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Republicans in Congress have not compromised on one thing the whole time Obama has been in office. That's why nothing has gotten done. They have not only contributed to polarization of our country they have gleefully led the way. Their willingness to put our country in jeopardy by abstaining from compromising on ANYTHING is not only unpatriotic it is, in my opinion, akin to treason. I put the blame for everything that has been put to a standstill directly on the shoulders of the republicans in Congress.


How nice. Democrats are not to blame for anything. They are just perfect, doing everything they possible can to turn this country into something entirely different from its original creation. Exactly what have the democrats compromised on?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I ask you this: what has been proposed? The republicans have already stood up and said that their primary goal is getting Obama out of office---not passing legislation, not trying to pass a budget, not trying to do ANYTHING except to get rid of Obama. If you have followed any news--even Fox-- you would know that this has been the case since Obama took office. They haven't been interested in serving us, their constituents, they've been on one track and it has been repeated over and over. Not even republicans can deny this. Some republicans are leaving Congress because they're sick and tired of the rallying cry and want to accomplish something. The far right has the whole party by its throat. There will be no moderate republicans at all---you know, the kind that used to compromise and used to reach across the aisle. If I were a republican voter right now, I'd be furious---unless my primary goal was to get Obama out of office. What a wonderful, positive goal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > Republicans in Congress have not compromised on one thing the whole time Obama has been in office. That's why nothing has gotten done. They have not only contributed to polarization of our country they have gleefully led the way. Their willingness to put our country in jeopardy by abstaining from compromising on ANYTHING is not only unpatriotic it is, in my opinion, akin to treason. I put the blame for everything that has been put to a standstill directly on the shoulders of the republicans in Congress.
> ...


Open your eyes! Listen to the news! It IS the Republican congress that is holding the American people hostage by not providing any legislature at all. The last bill they passed was such a farce it was almost laughable. "English as the National language". Big deal! When they took over congress, their main goal was to keep Obama one term president. They have voted down every bill with his name on it. The old GOP would not stand for such negligence. But with the party being divided into thirds, ( Tea Party, Conservative, Far Right wing maniacal religious zealots) they can't even talk to each other to get something done. 3 senators of the GOP are leaving their jobs because of the nonsense. They said they came to legislate and it's not happening.
Let's see, The democrats compromised on a budget to reopen the government after a brief shutdown, even though there was so much BS attached to it. I don't believe that anything should be negotiated when it comes to a budget besides the numbers. Pass it as it is and don't add crap to it.
What exactly are we trying to change this country into? I am really interested to hear your answer.
By the way How Nice is not very original. Find your own.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


Soleway - My friends on the left are educated and keep themselves informed on what is going on in our country and around the World. We question what we read, see and hear and make our own decisions on what to believe. I know that we on the left see a lot of issues differently from each other but that is OK and we listen and discuss those things. Sometimes we change our minds if we see that there may be a better idea or solution to a situation. We are flexible. We also know that the world is always in a state of change and that humans have to adapt. What I see in the GOP is a bunch of terrified people hanging on for dear life to their beliefs and values as layed out for them by their political leaders or preachers or a combination of both. What I don't see and this is what is so dangerous is a lack of questioning anything. You keep hearing the same old rhetoric the same party line coming out of everyone's mouth as if you have memorised the lines of a story or play. Everyone is reading from the same script. I really don't understand what your fear is over and why you seem to behave like a pack of wolves, so afraid you are not going to get your share of whatever it is you think you need. It's like a sickness has taken over the right and it is very sad. God gave us brains for a reason. We should all question those in authority using our own God given gift and not follow along blindly. That is how dictators can take over when people just turn over their minds to someone else who promises to take care of them and make everything safe and OK. I really pray that you will open your eyes and educate yourself to what is really going on in the world.


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## sissyfits (Aug 7, 2012)

Northwoods gal, what does "By the way How Nice is not very original. Find your own." refer to?

lillyk, 
What does TBBC or TBBRC mean?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sissyfits said:


> Northwoods gal, what does "By the way How Nice is not very original. Find your own." refer to?
> 
> lillyk,
> What does TBBC or TBBRC mean?


My own shorthand, wouldn't be meaningful to you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


Garden Girl - It is the right wing like Lukelucy who are always bringing up their Christian beliefs not the people on the left so what we find hypocritical is that they don't practice the basic principals of Christianity in their daily lives. If the school is secular or parochial is not the issue. Any decent teacher, no matter what religion should be concerned that their students are coming to school hungry. If the kids need to be fed then feed them. I am a tax payer, home owner with all my kids raised but I have no problem feeding hungry children. It is disgraceful if their parents don't feed them but I would not punish an innocent child for the wrong doing of the parent. Where has common decency gone?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

sissyfits said:


> Northwoods gal, what does "By the way How Nice is not very original. Find your own." refer to?
> 
> lillyk,
> What does TBBC or TBBRC mean?


My own shorthand, wouldn't be meaningful to you.

Why don't you introduce yourself so we can understand you better?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sissyfits said:


> Northwoods gal, what does "By the way How Nice is not very original. Find your own." refer to?
> 
> lillyk,
> What does TBBC or TBBRC mean?


Sorry, sissyfits, it's private. It would mean nothing to you.


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## sissyfits (Aug 7, 2012)

I was just looking at some of the posts and wondered. I'm pretty new to all the text abbreviations and thought I might learn some new.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Truth seeker
Look up the swearing-in ceremonies of members of Congress. They aren't sworn in on Bibles or Korans or Torahs or anything religious. We all seek the truth but believe what we choose to believe.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am looking at the picture and don't see Koran written anywhere on it. But let's just say, hypothetically, it was. What's the big deal? Religious freedom and freedom from it is what this country is all about. Something like that should not be turned into a 'viewer advised' ad.
Michele Bachmann did start the viciuos lie about Keith Ellison. If you lived here you could have read her own words in any MN Newspaper stating that she accused him of being part of the Muslim Brotherhood. That is what I meant by Michele Bachmann starting the lie. If Keith is a Muslim, so what? It doesn't make him part of a group formed in Egypt. The Muslim Brotherhoos laughed at Bachmann and said they aren't that big where they reside in Egypt. If he was a Jew, so what? If he was a Buddhist, so what? 
What Bachmann did by spewing her usual "conspiracy sludge' has hurt every one of the Muslim faith. Just because they are Muslim does not make them extreme Islamic terrorists. In this country we are free to choose our religion and practice it. Or some chose no religion and live very happily that way. Her statement was very dangerous. John Boehnner's own words.
I am convinced that her statement caused the shootings at the Sikh Temple In Oak Creek. She has the neo-cons & right wing maniacal zealots all fired up and that can pretty much make it open season on Muslims in this country, or anyone that they believe looks like a Muslim. She needs to step up and explain herself for the statements she made.
If Keith used Thomas Jeffersons Koran, then I would say that would be an honor and not deserving of ads that make the Muslim religion something so horrible that children should'nt see the ads. This is how your disgusting Tea Party works.
And before this election is over, I'll wager that more people will be killed, because of Michele Bachmann 's statement .
By the way, I am flattered that you snooped into our forum and copied my statement. I hope you learn something from this instead of constantly trying to prove me wrong. In fact what I would like to see from you is something intelligent that is written of your own thoughts and words about your party and not somebody else's words for a change.
TBBFC


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Truth seeker
If you look up how members of Congress are sworn in, you'll find that they are sworn in en masse and nobody holds a religious book of any kind. The picture you posted is posed. But if you persist in believing that Ellison used a Koran, so what?

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/DC-Decoder/Decoder-Wire/2011/0105/The-scoop-on-what-really-occurs-at-swearing-in-for-new-members-of-Congress


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

It is not a mistake. It is not true that anyone gets sworn in with any kind of religious book. Do a Google search of "swearing in of members of Congress" and you can find the truth.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The picture is posed. It isn't the actual swearing in ceremony. If it were the actual swearing in ceremony I would say "yes", he swore the oath on the Koran.
Yes, there is an actual picture, but no it isn't the actual ceremony. Does that make sense? It's starting to get funny!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > The picture is posed. It isn't the actual swearing in ceremony. If it were the actual swearing in ceremony I would say "yes", he swore the oath on the Koran.
> ...


As usual you are the blind one Joeysomma. You only read what you want to read and you only see what you want to see. We Progressives admit our mistakes and you do not. That is one of the many short comings of the right. It is true that no books are used in swearing in ceremonies of Congress. They raise their hands and say their oath of office out loud together (that is what enmasse means). Then after the "official" swearing in without a bible or any other "book" they have what is called a photo op. Let me explain that to you joeysomma because you don't seem to understand what that is (a photo opportunity is when a photo is taken "after the actual event has occured". To make it as basic as possible it is the same thing they do at weddings where "they take pictures after the ceremony is over" the couple is already married. Rep. Ellison was already a Congressman when the photograph was taken. He did use Thomas Jefferson's Koran which was loaned to him by the Library of Congress. I have no problem at all with his photo. The Koran is his holy book. I would not have had a problem with him actually being sworn in as a member of Congress with his had on the Koran any more than I would have a problem with a Christian being sworn in with his hand on a Bible. That joeysomma is the truth and nothing but the truth as they say. Contrary to what you want to believe the U.S. is not a Christian nation. It is a country made up of many many religions. You may want to ask our indiginous people, the Native Americans, what religion they were when we came in and stole their land. I know for a fact they were not Christians and only became Christians after having it forced upon them. If you need any real sources of factual information please let me know and I will be very happy to provide it for you. I have found that the best way to truly educate yourself is to open one's mind and use one's God given brain and get out there and research. Joeysomma did you ask yourself why Thomas Jefferson had his own Koran? Maybe you better study up on what the founding fathers really believed. They were a lot more enlightened then the right wing of today. TBBRC


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > The picture is posed. It isn't the actual swearing in ceremony. If it were the actual swearing in ceremony I would say "yes", he swore the oath on the Koran.
> ...


As usual you failed to mention that you were invited by me to join the Progressive Women's Forum but you read my kind and sincere invitation and did not even give me the courtesy of a polite reply. Since you did not reply I realised you were not sincere about your post in the Forum so I let your post stay out there all day before I deleted it last night along with my reply to your post. We are very well mannered on the Forum so please in the future be honest and that is the rest of the story. TBBRC


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Looks like all your buddies abandoned you, Joey. I guess this is the end of this thread. See Ya!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > The picture is posed. It isn't the actual swearing in ceremony. If it were the actual swearing in ceremony I would say "yes", he swore the oath on the Koran.
> ...


Well, I am not wrong, Joey. As hard as you tried to prove it, all you came up with was a photo op after the initial swearing in of new congressmen and women. Keep trying, it makes your brain work. :XD: :XD: 
TBBFS


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> alcameron said:
> 
> 
> > The picture is posed. It isn't the actual swearing in ceremony. If it were the actual swearing in ceremony I would say "yes", he swore the oath on the Koran.
> ...


Did you write that quote, Joey? Oh wait, you don't write anything, you just copy and paste. Hmmm


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


So what is your point, the Koran is in the picture.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > alcameron said:
> ...


So Joeysomma we all are in agreement that the picture has Thomas Jefferson's Koran in it and our Congressman Keith Ellison has his hand on it. This is a photo op so what don't you understand? Do I have to explain this to you all over again? You seem to be the only one in the dark on this. We have been extremely considerate and have explained this to you 10 ways to Sunday and what is there left that you are not grasping? We are only trying to help. TCBBRC


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

1. So what?
2. He is not taking the oath at the minute the photo was taken.
3. Enough already. Let's put this thing to bed!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> 1. So what?
> 2. He is not taking the oath at the minute the photo was taken.
> 3. Enough already. Let's put this thing to bed!


Hi Andrea - I guess joeysomma is unwilling to read about the swearing in ceremony right joeysomma? The photo you see does show him with his hand on the Koran. He is already a Congressman. No one swears on a Koran or a Bible or anything else. They say their oath all together and that's it. If she hasn't got it by now she never will, Andrea. You are right. She is probably upset because Thomas Jefferson had his own Koran, the holy book of Islam. The right better take a closer look at "their forefathers" because they might find out they were terrorists or at least Thomas Jefferson was. Pretty scary stuff. I agree let's blow this popstand. TBBRC&SS


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WWBB


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nah, it's just a photo op shot. He was sworn in without any form of book as a whole group in Congress. My point about this whole kerfuffle you are making is that Muslims should not be singled out by Bachmann and be accused of being a terrorist.
d smiling. Now if he were to be taking a serious oath, the picture would reflect that.All I see is a guy holding up his hand with the other on a book and he is smiling.
Now how long are you going to drag this out? I'm still waiting for you to post something with some substance. It's almost comical. We post, you hit the right wing sites to prove all of us wrong, but not once have you come up with an original thought of your own. Too bad. You are boring me now.
TBBC


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You have proved my point. Progressives will never admit they are wrong about anything.
> 
> He is showing the World he will take the oath of office on the Koran. If he is not why did he have the picture taken to publish. He is proud of the fact he is swearing on the Koran.
> 
> ...


We are right and you are wrong, Joeysomma. We already told you we know he is there in the picture with his hand on Thomas Jefferson's Koran that was loaned out to him for this photo. Even if he is repeating his oath on his Holy book, the Koran. What difference does it make? Would you want to have your picture taken with your hand on the Koran? I think not. This is not a Christian country and you just can't stand the truth. A Muslim should not have to swear on a Bible and a Christian should not have to swear on a Koran. You can't deal with the world as it is so you live in a tiny tiny world where everyone is exactly like you in everyway. Well you have fun in your narrow little world joeysomma and don't forget to put your blinders on when you go out. Oh, and now what do you think of Thomas Jefferson and his Koran or is that all make believe too. You skipped all over the Native Americans and everything else you can't deal with. Have a fun in never never land as we all can see it suits your needs very well. Byeeeeee TBBC


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

:XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Joeysomma - This is exactly what I wanted you to say!!! Thank you. Finally,you proved my point exactly. Mr. Ellison put his hand on the Koran and was proud to show the repressed Christians that he is a Muslim and a proud American. Good for him. This wonderful country is a Muslim country, a Jewish country, a Buddhist country
a Hindu country, an Agnostic country, an Atheist country and a Christian country and many more where we are all free to believe what ever we want and not restrict others from their beliefs. Amen Finally it is settled. TBBRC&RSRHI


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I am so proud that we have a Muslim Congressional Representative in MN and he is Black too just like our President Barack H. Obama.
Good night Northwoods Gal :roll: :wink:  :lol:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Night Lilly, sweet dreams


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> Looks like all your buddies abandoned you, Joey. I guess this is the end of this thread. See Ya!!


I'm here. Just had food poisioning and computer got fried by lightning. :hunf:


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> On the thread: Welcome to the Progressive Womens' Forum
> 
> Northwoods Gal wrote:
> "Off the subject here, but I just heard on the local news that some political ads on the federal level will come with warnings "viewer discretion advised, may not be suitable for children". Are you kidding me? The broadcasting companies may not alter any federal campaign ads. It's the law. The sneak preview of one of these has been shown by the local station. It shows Keith Ellison (Dem) Congressman from Minnesota taking his oath for congress and swearing on the Koran. Well we know who came up with that (Bachmann) but it isn'true.
> ...


It appears that some of you did not carefully read Northwoods Gal's original post from the progressives' private chat in which she wrote about Keith Ellison "taking his oath for congress and swearing in on the Koran...but it isn'true."

She does not specify if she means PART or ALL of her statement is 'not true' but it is her statement, not joeysomma's!

Re-read joeysomma's two-sentence reply (quoted above) and you will see she referred to "his REENACTED swearing in ceremony." Clearly she understood exactly what the photo represented. Thanks, alcameron, for your tedious repetitions of the facts about swearing in ceremonies, but joeysomma was way ahead of you on this one.

Joeysomma also noted that Ellison "garnered national attention" and his decision "generated both praise and criticisms from political pundits." (Translation: It made the news; some approved and some disapproved.) That looks like a fair statement to me.

Nowhere in her original comment did she offer her personal opinion on the significance of the event, so why all the harassment? LillyK asked 'what's the big deal?' and went off on a rant.

It seems that "the big deal" is that some of you were so enraged that joeysomma dared to 'correct' one of your elite club members that you went on the offensive without taking a moment to think about those two simple sentences.

Just a thought: One of you could have thanked joeysomma for her contribution and graciously accepted her clarification on Northwoods Gal's behalf (when she did not have the class to admit her mistake) instead of trying to use it as a platform for condemning all ideas you imagined might be in play.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You are beating a dead horse, here. It was settled days ago


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

What is it about this issue that drives people insane? I still don't get it. If some of you would spend half the time getting the facts on real issues as you did on this one, I would congratulate you.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

alcameron

Facts are irrelevant in some People's Life, fudging is their mainstay.

Ryan just finished his speech.
What a contrast beween Biden and Ryan.
I think that Romney chose him because he is more his Son's age and he thinks that he can keep him in check. Won't work.
Ryan has an agenda of his very own. Ryan and Romney is like Boehner and Cantor. Not a happy couple - opportunity lurking.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Thank you Garden Girl.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Thank you Garden girl!


----------



## sandj (May 16, 2012)

I can understand that we need Obama Care, but there are a lot of people out there who cannot afford it. I hear that those people who can't afford it will be taken care of by some sort of vouchers. How will these Voucher work?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Every business will increase their prices as a direct result of the taxes from Obamacare. Papa Johns prices will be raised to cover the Obamacare mandates. Cook Medical, a medical devise maker, is canceling plans to build new plants and the new jobs produced, in order to pay for the new taxes from Obamacare. All these increases add up, resulting in families spending more at the end of the month. How can this be a good thing? Health care reform should NOT equal new taxes on an overly taxed population.

WSJ poll states that 31% of doctors are not accepting new medicaid patients, directly because of the added costs, decreased earnings potential and increased paperwork. 

Maybe the president can offset these price increases by getting a paycheck for Mrs. Obama. LOL LOL LOL. I crack me up.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Northwoods Gal said:


> You are beating a dead horse, here. It was settled days ago


I humbly apologize to you if I somehow missed YOUR APOLOGY to joeysomma.

You may want to claim it was "settled days ago", and if you refer to the inaccuracies of your original statement, then I concede that the information to "settle" it was indeed offered days ago by joeysomma; however, when public denouncements are made, the acknowledgement of personal error in the form of a retraction or apology should occur in the same arena, before retreating from the spotlight.

That's the way I was raised, and since my family did not attend any church, I do not consider personal responsibility for apologies to be a 'Christian value.' It applies to everyone.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Very well said GardenGirl.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Every business will increase their prices as a direct result of the taxes from Obamacare. Papa Johns prices will be raised to cover the Obamacare mandates. Cook Medical, a medical devise maker, is canceling plans to build new plants and the new jobs produced, in order to pay for the new taxes from Obamacare. All these increases add up, resulting in families spending more at the end of the month. How can this be a good thing? Health care reform should NOT equal new taxes on an overly taxed population.
> 
> WSJ poll states that 31% of doctors are not accepting new medicaid patients, directly because of the added costs, decreased earnings potential and increased paperwork.
> 
> Maybe the president can offset these price increases by getting a paycheck for Mrs. Obama. LOL LOL LOL. I crack me up.


Joeysomma

Raising the price of a Pizza by 14 cents bothers you when
the employees finally get Health Care?
Oi weh.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

sandj said:


> I can understand that we need Obama Care, but there are a lot of people out there who cannot afford it. I hear that those people who can't afford it will be taken care of by some sort of vouchers. How will these Voucher work?


sandj

Whey is it that some People still feel that we in the good old USA cannot afford Health Care for everyone, when in much
less wealthy Countries all People are covered?

I don't get it.
Obamacare is the beST thing that has happened to WE THE PEOPLE IN OVER 100 YEARS.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


NO!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

quote"Just a thought: One of you could have thanked joeysomma for her contribution and graciously accepted her clarification on Northwoods Gal's behalf (when she did not have the class to admit her mistake) instead of trying to use it as a platform for condemning all ideas you imagined might be in play.
]end of quote.
Excuse me? The only thing I have to say is that I am not wrong. He did NOT take his oath on the Koran. He took it in a group with congress who used no bibles, Koran's ,or Book of Mormon, or the Torah to swear on. It was just a photo op . I never said the photo didn't exist,but the lie is that he was sworn into Congress with the Koran. 
We are not an 'elite" group as you say. just a group of women with like ideas and thoughts about how we see the country we live in. We learn from each other and really want to see changes made. Someone sounds a little jealous? 
You are just hacking up old hairballs, GardenGirl. :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Everyone should listen to this. I hope you can access it and you will be able to view what is below:

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?tab=wm#inbox/13918e3f5b3df92d


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Please watch this. I hope you can view it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzy#t=28


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Try to watch it with this one. I had trouble viewing the other one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> the bill says this "3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income of high-income taxpayers which could apply to proceeds from the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income, depending on your individual circumstances and any capital gains tax exclusions.
> 
> It says that it could apply but not definitely will apply. If it did apply it would not bother me a bit. I know that the health care bill funding has to come from somewhere. If a person sells a house for $400,000.00 and has to pay $13,200.00 in taxes, no big deal. They already pay a commission of 6% to realtors (which is $24,000.00). A seller can negotiate a lower commission so that part of that tax could be offset. In the end out of the $400,000. the seller still takes home a big chunk of change.
> 
> The baby boomers are the ones that need the health care the most, they are the ones with the homes, they are the ones that the funding should fall on their shoulders. Everyone cannot get a free ride!


You must rent so this tax won't come from your pocket. I sold real estate for years and do not negotiate the commission as there are a lot of expenses on my part. The home owner does lose a lot of money today with the drop in home prices as most home owners are UNDER WATER with their mortgages. Besides, most home owners do not own $400,00 houses. If you don't rent, then what is the value of you house? If you rent, then it does not matter to many people who are in your situation.

Don't know where you learned math, but you need to take a hard look again as this OBAMACARE will put most people in the poor house just to insure those who do not have enough back bone to buy medical insurance in the first place.

In my city, most ER departments at any hospital are filled with people who are there with a simple problem but it still cost hundreds of dollars to be medically treated in this manner but they don't have insurance to see a doctor during the day so won't pay for the medical care themselves.

Take a hard look around lady to really see the world as it is today. My insurance is paid at the first of the month then after that, I buy groceries if there is money left after the other necesities just to live. I own a 65 year old house that constantly needs repairs so my head is barely above water now.

With OBAMACARE coming into action soon and if I lose my house, can I live with you?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


Lots of jobs have gone to foreign countries since OBAMA got into office as again I expect all people on the give away trains to vote again as they did when he was first elected.

Did anyone hear that Obama gave away a few islands to Russia just off the coast of Alaska? I heard this but don't know if it is true or not, but do know one of Obama's buddies borrowed over 4 million from our government and then defaulted on the loan. That person got away with lots of our money under the care of OBAMA.

HE MUST NOT BE RE-ELECTED or we are finished. Those who voted for the OBAMACARE were out there by OBAMA so they owed him a favor. So much for our government!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Yarnie.One said:


> There's a lot of confusion about this funding issue. One of my FB friends passed along this Snopes.com page that helps clarify some of the issues.
> 
> The amount charged on the sale of a home will not be based on the price of the house, but on the income of the people selling the house -- a couple with a joint income of $250K is the bottom line.
> 
> ...


Have you investigated Snopes? I got information that they are politically motivated with their answers/research and everyone believes they are absolutely the BIBLE on information.

I have found Snopes wrong on lots of situations so won't use them for any correct answers to anything today.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Please view this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This is the whole thing.

Please view:

http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Uyvonne said:
> 
> 
> > the bill says this "3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income of high-income taxpayers which could apply to proceeds from the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income, depending on your individual circumstances and any capital gains tax exclusions.
> ...


Interesting how many inaccurate statements one person can make and never realize their shortcomings. WOW.
I hope that at least they learned to drive correctly so not to endanger others.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Uyvonne said:
> ...


You are not a nice person. Where do you live so I can "drive" by to visit.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

All kinds of insurance are a gamble. The insurer gambles on the fact that there will be a large enough number of insurees who don't make any claims, and that the claims made will be low enough to make sure that the insurer makes a big profit. Medicare and Social Security are no different. Now us baby boomers are starting to claim our benefits. 

These systems haven't made enough through investment that yields interest income. The pool of younger working people isn't big enough either. Something's gotta give somewhere and what will probably happen is that baby boomers will find themselves without the level of Medicare or Social Security benefits they have every reason to expect, even though we paid into the system for our entire working lives.

Mitt Romney and Ron Paul have their plans for Medicare and Social Security and President Obama has his. I'm not going to repeat what they are as there are pages and pages of explainations in this topoc. The bottom line is that us baby boomers are more likely to lose some or all of our Medicare and Social Security benefits if we elect Romney and Paul, not to mention the problems we have with Congress. Our elected representatives spend more time vacationing than they do working, and when they're in session they table the stickiest, most difficult issues. Several months ago poll takers came up with the estimate that 9% of us have confidence in Congress. What are the other 91% doing to raise our confidence in Congree?

I think it's way past time that we demonstrate in Washington DC and elsewhere just like many of us did when we objected to the war in Viet Nam. Our representatives in Congress aren't doing their jobs, yet they get paid to do so. If private citizens had the same job performance records they would have been fired long ago. Why should we apply a different standard for our representatives in government?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > Every business will increase their prices as a direct result of the taxes from Obamacare. Papa Johns prices will be raised to cover the Obamacare mandates. Cook Medical, a medical devise maker, is canceling plans to build new plants and the new jobs produced, in order to pay for the new taxes from Obamacare. All these increases add up, resulting in families spending more at the end of the month. How can this be a good thing? Health care reform should NOT equal new taxes on an overly taxed population.
> ...


It bothers me because this is just one company that has stated the increase in price is directly related to the cost of the new health care. The consumer is the one that pays and it doesn't matter your income level. So much for being concerned about the middle class. More of it will vanish as a result. This will apply to everyone. New jobs will not be available as a direct result of the the new health care plan. It goes on and on.

What about the 700+ Billion in cuts to Medicare that are in the plan?

AFFORDABLE should definitely be taken out the the health care plan.

The more information reveled about the plan, the more problems are exposed. How is this plan a good thing? It definitely needs to be repealed.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Why baby boomers? Why them?? Obama must go. That is not fair.


Lukelucy
You are so blinded and no explanations can ever enlighten you.
The Horse is out of the Barn and irretrievable.

The Ryan plan - privatizing everything - will certainly fail and that
is exactly what the Republicans are aiming for. They want to give vouchers to WE THE PEOPLE (the not rich), which will be totally insufficient for coverage of Health Care
and the whole system will collapse. More People will be needing Welfare and the Emergency Rooms will be on overload.

The Republicans (it started with Norquist) are looking for our Nation to become a Dictatorship. They started with the Norquist Pledge and now are trying desperately to manipulate
our voting rights. Folks, this is just the beginning.
Ryan is taking his plans from those of the Catholic Church.
Male Hierarchy - suppression of the population - and keep them under your thumb.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl

You are extremely uninformed how any company functions.
Taxes will never prevent any of them from hiring much less firing.
Health Care is provided by ALL COMPANIES in most foreign
Countries and has ever been a resason for not hiring or dismissal.
You have no clue what you speak of but keep repeating someone-else's garbage.
You must be getting constant flyers about what to say since the SOS keeps coming from different directions.
Get out of your Prison and into the World of knowledge.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> soloweygirl
> 
> You are extremely uninformed how any company functions.
> Taxes will never prevent any of them from hiring much less firing.
> ...


You are so out of touch with reality it is astounding. Business 101 covers expenses, accounts receivable and payable. Do some reading: you will no doubt learn about costs and expenses and why companies are not hiring. What happens in foreign countries concerning THEIR health care is comparing apples to oranges. We never had their entitlement programs or mind set. This is what has brought us down and it will keep up down.


----------



## katrinka (Sep 27, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please view this:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=tCAffMSWSzY#t=28


Shame on you!
It's called freedom of religion & is one of the greatest tenets in our Bill of Rights. I guess you don't think America is a Jewish nation either. 
Whenever our very eloquent President speaks, he educates himself about the subject matter. I would expect him to speak about Islam when addressing Muslims, as I would expect him to know more than the average person about Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism when speaking to the people of many faiths that make up our great country.
Where is your outrage towards the 'Christian' White Supremacists who opened fire on a Sihk temple last week? Who harrass Jews & Hispanics & African Americans everyday? 
Why do you hate Islam? Do you believe all Muslims are terrorists? They have a long way to go to compete w/neo-nazis & skinheads in America.
Extemism is bad in any form; so is anti-semitism & bigotry.
kat


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I love Muslim people. I have someone who I call my brother (literally) who is Muslim. My parents were his parents. You are simply interpreting the video the wrong way. I don't hear Obama talking about any other religious group. And why should he be talking religion when there is a separation of church and state? Obama is unAmerican. He should not be re-elected. He needs to go. He is a very poor leader.


----------



## katrinka (Sep 27, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I love Muslim people. I have someone who I call my brother (literally) who is Muslim. My parents were his parents. You are simply interpreting the video the wrong way. I don't hear Obama talking about any other religious group. And why should he be talking religion when there is a separation of church and state? Obama is unAmerican. He should not be re-elected. He needs to go. He is a very poor leader.


You're wrong. I'm not 'interpreting' anything. He was speaking about Islam because he was addressing a group of Muslims. 
kat


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Seems like there is a lot of addressing Islam. He is not good for this country - Obama needs to go.


----------



## katrinka (Sep 27, 2011)

Then don't vote for him, Lucy. End of discussion
kat


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I won't vote for him.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I love Muslim people. I have someone who I call my brother (literally) who is Muslim. My parents were his parents. You are simply interpreting the video the wrong way. I don't hear Obama talking about any other religious group. And why should he be talking religion when there is a separation of church and state? Obama is unAmerican. He should not be re-elected. He needs to go. He is a very poor leader.


Lukelucy

You are one of the most Un-American I have ever encountered.

But then you are in the company of a small percentage of others like you and small is key here and are we glad because
we like to be proud Americans and love our President. 
Our percentage way outnumbers yours. 
We embrace our President and our Nation with all of our Hearts.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I LOVE America. Obama is not American/democratic. Small percentage. I hope not. Seems to me the country is about evenly divided.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ingried said:


> soloweygirl
> 
> You are extremely uninformed how any company functions.
> Taxes will never prevent any of them from hiring much less firing.
> ...


Ingried - People are afriad in the U.S. They don't know how far ahead of us the rest of the world is getting. We were already sold down the river years ago and it crept up on a lot of people. Wars that were created not real, selling everybody on 401K plans so companies stopped offering pensions like they used to if you were a good and faithful employee. All for the rich man. Now Romney wants to stop Medicare and give seniors a voucher and let them go out and shop for their own insurance. That's a fact and Mr. Ryan brags about it. He and Mitt will never ahve to worry about helathcare for themselves or their families. Yes, let healthcare go the way of retirement plans. We know how well that worked. I hope they wake up before the election and see who really cares about the average family and really believes in family values. I could go on and on but it is about as productive as giving a fish a rain coat. People wake up. Please. There is no trickle down and there never was the water is running upstream and pretty soon we will have nothing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Janeway said:


> Uyvonne said:
> 
> 
> > the bill says this "3.8% Medicare tax on unearned income of high-income taxpayers which could apply to proceeds from the sale of single family homes, townhouses, co-ops, condominiums, and even rental income, depending on your individual circumstances and any capital gains tax exclusions.
> ...


The peple you say "flood" ERs have no other choice. They fall through the giant cracks in our methods of providing affordable health insurance and healthcare. I'm 63 years old, disabled, pay several arms and legs for my health insurance, and wouldn't change that unless I was offered a better deal. I'm dirt poor because it's more important for me to have very comprehensive health insurance instead of meat every day. Try that sometime and then tell me about your problems with your mortgage.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Of course higher taxes will prevent hiring. The money won't be there to hire - it goes to the government. Romney does not want to do away with Medicare.

We are spending too much as a government. Obama has raised this spending by 40% in his term of office.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Of course higher taxes will prevent hiring. The money won't be there to hire - it goes to the government. Romney does not want to do away with Medicare.
> 
> We are spending too much as a government. Obama has raised this spending by 40% in his term of office.


Lukelucy
Oi weh!!!!!!!!


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Uyvonne said:
> ...


Seattle Soul
You are so right, the People have no choice but to go to the ER and have not had any for many, many years.
With all the debt this Counry has, it still is well off and not having
affordable Health Care for everyone is unaceptable.
Things got much worse when the private Health Care Providers
pushed to close City and County Clinics and Hospitals to which anyone could go for treatment. The private sector wanted o get that money and now we know where that led.
Hospitals and their outreach Clinics got bigger and higher in numbers and we who have insurance pay for all of it.
That is what happens when you privatize - the fate of Medicare if we allow it.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Please vote for my husband!!!!



























THANK YOU AMERICA !



Dear American Taxpayer

For only the second time in my adult life, I am not

Ashamed of my country. I want to thank the hard

Working American people for paying $242 thousand

Dollars for my vacation in Spain .

My daughter Sashay, several long-time family friends,

My personal staff and various guests had a wonderful time. 

Honestly, you just haven't lived until you have stayed

In a $2,500.00 per night private 3-story villa at 
a 5-Star luxury hotel.

Thank you also for the use of Air Force Two
And the 70 Secret Service personnel who tagged

Along to be sure we were safe and cared for at all times. 

By the way, if you happen to be visiting the Costa del Sol ,

I highly recommend the Unadventurous Plaza restaurant

In Martello ; great lobster with rice and oysters! 

I'm ashamed to admit the lobsters we ate in 
Martha's Vineyard were not quite as tasty, 
But what can you do if you're not in Europe , 
you have to just grin and bear it?

Air Force Two (which costs $11,351 per hour to operate 
According to Government Accounting Office reports)

Only used 47,500 gallons of jet fuel for this trip

And carbon emissions were a mere 1,031 tons of CO 2.

These are only rough estimates, but they are close. 

That's quite a carbon footprint as my good friend

Al Gore would say, so we must ask the American

Citizens to drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars and

Drive less too, so we can lessen our combined

Carbon footprint.

I know times are hard and millions of you are struggling

To put food on the table and trying to make ends meet. 

So I do appreciate your sacrifices and do hope you

Find work soon.

I was really exhausted after Barack took our family

On a luxury vacation in Maine a few weeks ago. 

I just had to get away for a few days.

Cordially,
Michelle (Moochelle) Obama

P.S. Thank you as well for the $2 BILLION dollar trip

To India from which we just returned! 

P.SS. Thank you, too, for that vacation trip to

Martha's Vineyard; it was fabulous. 

And thanks for that second smaller jet that took our

Dog Bo to Martha's Vineyard so we and the children

Could have him with us while we were away from the

White House for eleven days. After all, we couldn't

Take him on Air Force One because he might pee

On some wires or something.

P.SSS. Oh, I almost forgot to say thanks also for

Our two-week trip to Hawaii at Christmas. That 7,000

Square foot house was great!

P.SSSs don't forget my ski trip to Vail this winter

And now the girls and I are in Africa with my mom. 

All this while Barack golfs and campaigns to

Keep my trips coming for the next 4 years !

Love Ya!
Remember, we all have to share the pain of these

Economic times equally!

Love to -redistribute- share- the wealth.

SEND THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN NOW - 
STAND UP, SPEAK UP.











Subject: Fwd: Michelle Thanks America


Subject: Fwd: Fw: Michelle Thanks America





















Please vote for my husband!!!!



























THANK YOU AMERICA !



Dear American Taxpayer

For only the second time in my adult life, I am not

Ashamed of my country. I want to thank the hard

Working American people for paying $242 thousand

Dollars for my vacation in Spain .

My daughter Sashay, several long-time family friends,

My personal staff and various guests had a wonderful time. 

Honestly, you just haven't lived until you have stayed

In a $2,500.00 per night private 3-story villa at 
a 5-Star luxury hotel.

Thank you also for the use of Air Force Two
And the 70 Secret Service personnel who tagged

Along to be sure we were safe and cared for at all times. 

By the way, if you happen to be visiting the Costa del Sol ,

I highly recommend the Unadventurous Plaza restaurant

In Martello ; great lobster with rice and oysters! 

I'm ashamed to admit the lobsters we ate in 
Martha's Vineyard were not quite as tasty, 
But what can you do if you're not in Europe , 
you have to just grin and bear it?

Air Force Two (which costs $11,351 per hour to operate 
According to Government Accounting Office reports)

Only used 47,500 gallons of jet fuel for this trip

And carbon emissions were a mere 1,031 tons of CO 2.

These are only rough estimates, but they are close. 

That's quite a carbon footprint as my good friend

Al Gore would say, so we must ask the American

Citizens to drive smaller, more fuel efficient cars and

Drive less too, so we can lessen our combined

Carbon footprint.

I know times are hard and millions of you are struggling

To put food on the table and trying to make ends meet. 

So I do appreciate your sacrifices and do hope you

Find work soon.

I was really exhausted after Barack took our family

On a luxury vacation in Maine a few weeks ago. 

I just had to get away for a few days.

Cordially,
Michelle (Moochelle) Obama

P.S. Thank you as well for the $2 BILLION dollar trip

To India from which we just returned! 

P.SS. Thank you, too, for that vacation trip to

Martha's Vineyard; it was fabulous. 

And thanks for that second smaller jet that took our

Dog Bo to Martha's Vineyard so we and the children

Could have him with us while we were away from the

White House for eleven days. After all, we couldn't

Take him on Air Force One because he might pee

On some wires or something.

P.SSS. Oh, I almost forgot to say thanks also for

Our two-week trip to Hawaii at Christmas. That 7,000

Square foot house was great!

P.SSSs don't forget my ski trip to Vail this winter

And now the girls and I are in Africa with my mom. 

All this while Barack golfs and campaigns to

Keep my trips coming for the next 4 years !

Love Ya!
Remember, we all have to share the pain of these

Economic times equally!

Love to -redistribute- share- the wealth.

SEND THIS TO EVERY AMERICAN NOW - 
STAND UP, SPEAK UP.



































Reply


Reply to all


Forward














Click here to Reply, Reply to all, or Forward






















Last


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Luke lucy are you sure you are a teacher?
The childish responses to comments from both sides of the political parties published here have often been cringingly embarrassing to read, I would have thought that you. as a teacher could have risen above this farcical nonsense.
People from all over the world read this forum to maybe learn a little of your politics and social structure, all there is here is proof that people never really grow up, even secret little codes - very Enid Blyton


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy
Being a Teacher?
Oi weh! No wonder so many among us are in deep doodoo.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

May the First Family have at least a vacation deserving all of the problems they are being faced with by some ugly Americans.
At least I know FOR SURE that they will be embraced with lots of love and kindness abroad.
Most of us like our First Family very much, abroad however everyone likes them.
Wonderful to know.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Sorry you did not like it. To each his own.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Another super-long post full of empty space and repepition. You must be good friends with grammaollie. The whole post is pure hogwash. If you have something substantive to say, please do so, but keep the bologna to yourself. 

The Obamas have two daughters, Malia and Sasha. Calling one of them "Sashay" is a racist remark on some of the names African-Americans have that sound "funny" to whites, even though we have some pretty "funny" sounding names ourselves. For example, Frank Zappa named one of his children "Moon Unit"...

Boy, am I ever glad I don't have any school-aged children. Your post is a good example of one of the biggest problems in education today, that is, poor teachers. Our education problems aren't all a matter of how much money we spend on education.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Seems like there is a lot of addressing Islam. He is not good for this country - Obama needs to go.


Please tell us that you are not a Teacher, please, please.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

A goverment big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have. Thomas Jefferson


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins, that's why we have the Second Amendment to the Constitution, one of whose authors was Thomas Jefferson. I find it easy to imagine an uprising in this country if Medicare and Social Security are radically modified, even though most Americans have been tranquilized in to a state of almost complete apathy by television. That's why it's called "the boob tube".


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

What in the heck are you talking about SeattleSoul? Just because I quoted a President doesn't mean I got it from TV SeattleSoul. You must be confused or....


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I hope you can view this:

http://www.westernjournalism.com/navy-seals-out-obama-adim-as-national-security-risk/


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

Thank you for the link to get the truth about this loudly denounced bill.
My sister [in France for many years] pays much more in taxes that I do here is the U.S.A.
That said, WHEN SHE OR ONE OF HER CHILDREN NEED MEDICAL CARE, THEY JUST GO GET IT. 
They don't have the huge health insurance expenses that I have.
They don't have to deal with snooty HMO doctors who have to see X number of patients per day to make their generous salaries.
They don't have to get "referrals" when they need to see a specialist.
They don't have all that "proof" to present to some company whose only purpose is to make money off sick people.
They don't have those "not covered" riders to deal with. Illness/injury is just treated, period.
I shoulda gone with her to France, mais non?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Don't taxes run about 70-75% in France? That's a lot of money to the government!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins, I'm well aware you quoted a President, in fact, one of the authors of our Constitution. I didn't say you got anything from TV. I made a remark about what seems to generally be the case, that a lot of people are tranquilized and thus easily led because they spend hours and hours watching and believing everything they see on TV.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> LillyK said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Revan - Americans like Lukelucy can't bear the thought that America is no longer #1. not just in medicine but in many other ways too we have fallen far off the pedestals we put ourselves on.
> ...


In many countries in this world, a bow is common courtesy. Americans in general have such bad maners that showing common courtesy to someone in another part of the world scandalizes them.

I have read 20 pages of this so far. Most of what I have read is the hate-filled, racially motivated bigotry that America is famous [or should I say infamous] for. The spewers of this bigotry WILL NOT be deterred by anything so ridiculous as the FACTS. Nosirree. This screaming fit over a law taxing real estate transactions of persons above a certain income level has nothing to do with their expressions of racial hatreds other than to give them another excuse for lambasting a man who inherited a mess and has tried to do his best for his country since his election.

Well, it is a FACT that Congress has been raiding the Social Security Fund for their pet projects almost since its inception; and that is the reason that the fund is in such dire straits now. It is much like the person who spent his income and never saved for a "rainy day" and now can't use an umbrella he never got.

It is a FACT that the members of Congress go to great lengths to exempt themselves from any hurtful consequences to their kowtowing to corporations and the wealthy persons who dominate them regardless of the needs or desires of their constituents.

It is a FACT that America has been hemorrhaging jobs since the 1960's when Congress bowed to the corporations and allowed them to take their manufacturing facilities "offshore" [read foreign country, usually a dictatorship that would give them workers at practically the slave level], putting thousands of hard-working Americans out of jobs.

It is a fact that GREED rules what happens on Capitol Hill and what our so-called "representatives in Congress" do or neglect/refuse to do for the people they were elected to represent.

I can remember being told that "relocation of current staff" was "cost prohibitive" when I lost my patternmaking job because my employer took his entire operation to Hong Kong. He was able to bring his foreign-produced goods back into the USA with minimal or no tariffs. This happened to ME. It is not something I "heard about" from somebody else. 

Personally, I believe that only God Almighty could save this country or any other from the mess greedy people and the politicians who serve have gotten them in. That said, I am no longer reading any more of this subject.

Have a Nice Day! :!:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Country Bumpkins, I'm well aware you quoted a President, in fact, one of the authors of our Constitution. I didn't say you got anything from TV. I made a remark about what seems to generally be the case, that a lot of people are tranquilized and thus easily led because they spend hours and hours watching and believing everything they see on TV.


SeattleSoul I am not tranquilized by anything. I am aware of my surroundings I am not deceived or blinded by a man.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I love Muslim people. I have someone who I call my brother (literally) who is Muslim. My parents were his parents. You are simply interpreting the video the wrong way. I don't hear Obama talking about any other religious group. And why should he be talking religion when there is a separation of church and state? Obama is unAmerican. He should not be re-elected. He needs to go. He is a very poor leader.


AMEN, AMEN, AMEN, AMEN.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Dsynr said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


You should take off the blindfolds concerning your misinformation about OBAMA! What has he done, except tax us to death, and now given millions of illegal Mexican immigrants the right to stay, work and most of all apply for a government grant (free money) to attend college that the rest of us must pay for that same right, just in time for his reelection.

Where are all the jobs he promised? I have lots of friends who are in much worse shape since his election who are losing their homes, because of lost jobs. As of NOW, I am feeding my closest friend (cheap food as I don't have much money either) because she lost her job that was supporting her and her two children. Her husband already lost his job over two years ago, but does work at any temporary job he can find, but it barely keeps the roof over their head.

It also cost over $700.00 to enrol their children in school. They took out a small loan because they were not qualified for any help but all of those illegal Mexicans were qualified for the FREE entry into school.

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I read with interest the fractured and revised information repeated here for ill intentions. 
I again must refer to how it sounds to any thinking individual:
"Cain slew his Brother Abel, go forth and do the same".

It would not be so bad if only Americans would be reading this since we know the opposition all too well but Foreigners think
that a large ercentge of our Population is totally uneducated.
Not quite true but thoroughly brainwashed for sure.


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## gramm27 (Oct 22, 2011)

I wouldn't believe everything one reads in a newspaper, books or any other type of documented proof I hear spouted on this forum either.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Please vote for my husband!!!!
> 
> THANK YOU AMERICA !
> 
> ...


Could you not find a dumber way to post?
Teacher? Oi weh, oi weh, oi weh!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Once again, another person, you this time, has failed to read a few simple sentences. I said "a lot of people" are tranquilized by TV. I didn't say you were one of them. However, the fact you couldn't understand those few simple sentences of mine is alarming. Read carefully, read for understanding. The upcoming Presidential election requires all of us, irrespective of our political beliefs, to pay especially close attention to what will be said.


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## gramm27 (Oct 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul,
If you posted your last response to me, Gramm27, you are barking up the wrong tree. I did not post my not believing things I read etc. to anything you posted. If I offended you I'm sorry. I meant that no one should believe everything they read no matter who they want for president. I didn't even read anything you posted earlier until just now.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Would you please fact check those figures for me? I tried but couldn't find the 2Billion $$ cost.


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## EileenKelly (Aug 17, 2012)

How on earth did a question about Obama Care turn into a tent revival Jesus fest? Uvonne, did you ever get the answers to your question? I opened this thread because I was genuinely interseted in this topic, but I can't believe what it has come to! I do have to comment on the fact that Ingreid & LilyK are very educated women who are passionate about their beliefs. NorthwoodsGirl , you crack me up!!
But I can see that you, also, are very passionate too as well as educated. It's too bad that other women with different tenets had to spoil the thread. If anybody can get back to the original question of this thread, I would be very interested to learn about funding for Obama Care.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Read this from the Wall Street Journal


smaller Larger facebooktwittergoogle pluslinked ininShare.1EmailPrintSave &#8595; More .
.
smaller Larger 
Memo to Americans: This presidential race is over. Turn off the TV, stow the voter ID, buy that Obama bumper sticker. Mitt Romney has lost. 

Really, why go through 80 more days of the campaign, when the piercing conclusion of the Washington press corps, the Republican establishment and the Democratic Party is that Mr. Romney committed public suicide in choosing Paul Ryan? After all, these political pros know things. 

They know Republican lose when they talk about entitlements. They know that's because Americans will trust only Democrats with Medicare and Social Security. They know the left is crack-happy with the Ryan pick. They know all this because somebody told them so a long time ago, and their job is to keep repeating things they've been told.

So in thrall is the Beltway crowd to its received beliefs that it has missed this (minor) point: America looks nothing like it did even four years ago. The political landscape has been upended. And that is why Republicans can win this year. 

Enlarge Image


Close
www.mittromney.com

A still shot from Mitt Romney's Medicare commercial.
.
As they have been winning. Those who insist the GOP loses when it talks entitlements have yet to explain Mr. Ryan. True fact: You can't be the House Budget chairman without having won an election. That's what Mr. Ryan has done, seven times, in a competitive Wisconsin district that contains senior citizens, independents and party moderatesand that voted Obama in 2008. 

Save for his first run, he's never earned less than 63% of the vote. And he's done that by taking the entitlement fight to his opponents. 

Ah, say the pros, but even Mr. Ryan couldn't win an oldster state like Florida. Senior citizens will flip out. So they said in 2010, when Marco Rubio, in a debate with opponent Charlie Crist, suggested raising the retirement age and altering benefits to preserve Social Security. "Rubio just lost Florida!" screamed the Twitterverse. 

Well, Sen. Marco Rubio is still talking about entitlement reform today. As are Republican Sens. Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey and Rob Portman, who beat Mediscare in swing states in 2010. As are dozens of House freshmen who ran on Mr. Ryan's budget. 

They won because something fundamental has changed in the electorate. Our country has been through recessions before. What it has not experienced is an administration that used an economic slowdown to spend America into a debt crisis. The debt numbers are today so extreme ($16 trillion, 70% of GDP), the consequences so real (credit downgrades, default), that voters are scared. 

Add to this the creeping nearness of an entitlement explosion. Social Security payouts already exceed revenue. Medicare could be bankrupt in eight years. In a 2011 Gallup poll, 67% of Americans agreed that Social Security and Medicare would create a financial crisis within a decade. Voters are willing to have this debate. 

Then there's the other dramatic political change, more recent: Voters for the first time have an honest entitlement choice. Democrats have for years claimed that the choice was between the status quo and GOP cuts. Then they passed ObamaCare. In doing so, they put themselves on record with their real plans for Medicare. 

The president's Affordable Care Act uses Medicare as a piggy bank, stripping today's program of $716 billion. And the law's way of dealing with the ensuing Medicare shortages is to empower a group of 15 individuals to make decisions on what medical services will need to be cut. So how does the Democratic Party intend to fix Medicare? Cut Medicare dollars, ration care. Now we know. 

It is this Obama Medicare plannot the status quothat Republicans are running against. It is against this that they are contrasting Mr. Romney's proposal to restore that $716 billion, to preserve existing benefits for those 55 and above, and to give younger Americans more options and continued quality care. 

There is only one candidate gutting Medicare today: Mr. Obama. There is only one candidate who will preserve Medicare for future generations: Mr. Romney. That comparison is striking, and it blows up conventional wisdom.

In a Rasmussen survey this week, Florida voters were asked, "When it comes to the future of Medicare, which scares you more: President Obama's health-care law or Paul Ryan's proposal?" By 48% to 41%, Floridians were more scared of Mr. Obama's $716 billion cut. And Floridians age 65 and up? By 54% to 34%a 20 percentage-point differenceFlorida seniors feared most an Obama future.

Democrats may not have good ideas, but they aren't blind. They've felt the shifting landscape, lived through 2010, and they understand the threat of a bold reform politician. 

That's why Mr. Obama has personally spent such time the past two years publicly working to isolate and discredit Mr. Ryan. He's not thrilled by the Ryan pick, oh no. He fears it. 

This fear, this fundamentally changed political landscape, does not guarantee a Republican victory. But what it does promise is that if the Romney-Ryan ticket stays on offenseif it can fight to a draw on entitlements and leverage the powerful economic argumentthen it has every shot at the White House.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Back to Obama care funding? I don't take the word of the Wall Street Journal. Very biased newspaper.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Won't you accept anything as the truth that differs from your opinion?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lukelucy; you amaze me -- you know everything - don't you!

It is so interesting -- you remind me soooo much of one of the recent people who are no longer with us. So much so that your posts sound exactly the same. hmm!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Who is that person who is missing?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, did I say I knew everything? Apparently some people think they do. No, I don't know everything.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Won't you accept anything as the truth that differs from your opinion?


Lukelucy,
IMHO Media is media. Fox and MSNBC are as different as night and day. Newspapers are the same way. Radio shows like Rush Limbaugh and Keith Olberman, complete opposites. They choose what political stance that they will take and go from there. In Minnesota the 2 main papers are at complete opposites .One leans to the left, one leans to the right. Most big cities are like that. It's not a matter of which media conglamorate I choose to believe. There is so much misinformation out there. It's not about me accepting what is not my opinion, but it is about accepting what coincides with my beliefs.


----------



## EileenKelly (Aug 17, 2012)

Very nicely put, Northwoods Gal.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I know that the media is tilted one way or the other.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Read this from the Wall Street Journal
> 
> smaller Larger facebooktwittergoogle pluslinked ininShare.1EmailPrintSave ↓ More .
> .
> ...


Please fact check that 716Billion cut from Medicare. It is not a cut to seniors benefits, it is a cut for Medicare Advantage and providers who overcharge Medicare.


----------



## Pesshe (Mar 11, 2012)

Dsynr said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > LillyK said:
> ...


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

716 Billion in cuts is coming from SAVINGS by reducing cost and eliminating fraud and NOT reducing care.

Isn't it interesting that Ryan goes into a very well to do community to campaign?
Those Folks like their Medicare but could live extremely well without it and therein lies the difference.
Let him speak to People who have no other means of getting care and watch his reception then.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on. There is a shortage of health care workers now.


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## Sticksx2 (Aug 17, 2012)

amen to that !


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Gee Whiz, somehow I quit getting posts on this subject. Can't read 77 pages so could someone please update the goings on? Thanks, JW


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> I have purchased about 25 properties in my lifetime, and yes I have negotiated real estate commissions, some time up, some time down. I have even used a sell yourself agent and paid flat fee (way bellow 6% commission. If you talk to knowledgeable RE agents or brokers, they will tell you that this is not unheard of.


If you have bought 25 properties in your lifetime, what sorta government job do you have that you have been able to move that many times. How old are you 150? As most mortgages goes, you must live in a house at least 5 years to come out on the cost of the mortgage. Most of the time, the first 5 years of any mortgage is interest without any money or very little paid on the loan.

I sold RE for over 25 years and NEVER did I negotiate the commission for any property. I had lots of expenses that were set. I think what people get confused about is a realtor cannot price fix a commission such as charging the same commission on all of their properties listed such as:

If the property was a small house/mobil home/house along an interstate, then the commission was lowered to make that property more marketable than a higher priced property in a quiet neighborhood. My commissions ran from 3% on small homes, or as much as 10% on a Million Dollar Home!

Plus sometimes if I double dipped (where I listed and sold the property) then I would cut the commission in half in order to move the property. This was my choice and not because anyone talked me into reducing the commission. Those commissions are a Realtors paycheck.

Would you take a smaller paycheck for a smaller job? I don't think you would take any less weekly/monthly at your job.


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## Pesshe (Mar 11, 2012)

I too can't believe the bigotry and hatred that is being expressed in this forum. as a woman I have a difficult time understanding why any woman could vote for a republican or tea party agenda . 

Maybe if churches paid,taxes our country would have adequate money to pay for health care which is a persons right not a priivelege. 

Our country can learn from England. Did anyone else like the part of the opening ceremony of the Olympics where they honored their health care system and children? 

I am so grateful for all the people on this forum that believe in the good of the whole. and by the way our taxes are currently the lowest they have been in 30 years.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Not for long. Taxes will go up if Obama stays. Big time.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Pesshe said:


> I too can't believe the bigotry and hatred that is being expressed in this forum. as a woman I have a difficult time understanding why any woman could vote for a republican or tea party agenda .
> 
> Maybe if churches paid,taxes our country would have adequate money to pay for health care which is a persons right not a priivelege.
> 
> ...


Pesshe

You are so on target. It is refreshing to read such intelligent
script.
Churches are the biggest steady business and should be paying Taxes particularly since they do put their nose into government business big time and constantly.

I too was happy to see the UK give such grateful exposure to my Profession. No Health Care System is perfect - and never can be - but the system in place in England and all other developed as well as many 3rd World Countries (not the correct description any longer) is far superior to what we have had in the USA so far.
Obamacare is the first sound step in the right direction.


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## Sticksx2 (Aug 17, 2012)

You are so right about taxes going up if he is reelected ! And as for the "change" that was and continues to be only a ploy used to recruit voters especially young people. Sadly they don't always read between the lines and/or consider all the facts before "believing" someone's words. But not only young but seemingly intelligent adults especially women are somehow in awe of this person who had no experience etc etc. Women sure aren't thinking very long or hard about this candidate is all I can say. I didn't vote for him last time and certainly won't this go around either. But, nuff said about that And that is why I am proud to live in America! Where we do have a right to our own opinion. If not happy with the current scene be sure to vote this fall !!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Great reply. If people could only see.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Great reply. If people could only see.


Lukelucy we have already seen how some people are deceived. :-(


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## Sticksx2 (Aug 17, 2012)

Well, now that we've gotten that all straightened out, lol, I'm not going to waste my Sunday afternoon contemplating anymore OmamaCare stuff. I joined this site to talk about knitting, which I love, btw so off this and on to something way more interesting !


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> lukelucy; you amaze me -- you know everything - don't you!
> 
> It is so interesting -- you remind me soooo much of one of the recent people who are no longer with us. So much so that your posts sound exactly the same. hmm!


Designer1234
You see, since these Folks joined THE group, they must adhere to its directions and that is what we have been seeing for over 4 years now. Free thinking and free speech is not allowed on the right. 
How narrow they are informed is pointed out by the "poor" questions directed at us so frequently.

There is a big difference between Conservatives and Liberals. Freedom is for us Liberals for sure. No-one can lasso us in.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

"Obama's economics fosters dependency in exchange for financial security. The only real economic security any nation has is the strength and vitality of its private economy." (from Investor's Business Daily)

The middle 20% of income earners - real middle class- paid just 9% of federal taxes in 2009, and only 2.7% of total federal individual income taxes. Top 20% of earners paid 70% of all federal taxes and 94% of federal individual income taxes. Top 1% paid 22% of all federal taxes and 39% of federal individual income taxes. Figures from CBO. How much more should the top earners pay? It will never be their "fair share" as long as more money is being paid out than money coming in. IRS data shows 49.5% pay no income taxes at all. 

107 million Americans are receiving some kind of government welfare (2011 stats), not including medicare and social security. 35% of the total population. (CBO) 

How much more will this new amnesty executive order cost the American taxpayer? You know we are the ones that will end up paying for the 1.7 million (probably more) illegal immigrants this amnesty is directed to. New census figures show 43% of all immigrants remain on welfare 20 years after arriving in this country. 

I, for one, don't want another four years of of this kind of economics. I don't want 8.3% unemployment, 1.5% growth, 5 trillion in new debt, with no plan to get out of it, etc., for another four years. The administration has not offered a plan to balance the budget, just a budget that was not passed by the House or the Senate, they are just critical of those that have. It is plainly obvious that this administration's economic policies are not working and yet they want to keep going forward with this plan. Why is this a good thing?


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

Obama's own Actuary has said that he is trying to use the money he cut from Medicare twice and that will not work,but it didn't stop him and the Dems from pushing the bill through! I don't want 15 appointed people in Washington telling me and my doctor that if I can have a test done!!!!
MY OPINION ONLY!!
Obama wants to be a dictator and if he wins , he'll try a Chalvez trick to change all the laws to suit himself. He is bypassing congress by using his executive orders. Between him and Harry Reid ( and Pelosi) they be running the country into the ground. Reid is holding up bills that he doesn't like because he's afraid they will pass. He won't even put them up for a vote!!!!!!!!!! This administration is a big joke and I would vote for an apple before I would vote for him. He is an egotistical ,ideological man that has only one agenda. He said in the last election that our energy bills would increase. ( did it) Told the coal industry that he would put them out of business ( doing it) and gasoline would go up (did it) Anyone that listened to what he said would not have voted for him.. Of course he lied about the hope part of his agenda.( He is Good at that) ... He was going to be the most TRANSPARENT president we had ever had and get rid of the lobbyists, but instead of letting them come to the White House, he met them in a building down the street, hoping no one would know. I could go on and on, but I'm tired. Needless to say, I would vote for a Squash before I voted for him.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Soloweygirl,
Right on. Thank you! Your are great! It makes me feel good that someone is thinking!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

unie said:


> Obama's own Actuary has said that he is trying to use the money he cut from Medicare twice and that will not work,but it didn't stop him and the Dems from pushing the bill through! I don't want 15 appointed people in Washington telling me and my doctor that if I can have a test done!!!!
> MY OPINION ONLY!!
> Obama wants to be a dictator and if he wins , he'll try a Chalvez trick to change all the laws to suit himself. He is bypassing congress by using his executive orders. Between him and Harry Reid ( and Pelosi) they be running the country into the ground. Reid is holding up bills that he doesn't like because he's afraid they will pass. He won't even put them up for a vote!!!!!!!!!! This administration is a big joke and I would vote for an apple before I would vote for him. He is an egotistical ,ideological man that has only one agenda. He said in the last election that our energy bills would increase. ( did it) Told the coal industry that he would put them out of business ( doing it) and gasoline would go up (did it) Anyone that listened to what he said would not have voted for him.. Of course he lied about the hope part of his agenda.( He is Good at that) ... He was going to be the most TRANSPARENT president we had ever had and get rid of the lobbyists, but instead of letting them come to the White House, he met them in a building down the street, hoping no one would know. I could go on and on, but I'm tired. Needless to say, I would vote for a Squash before I voted for him.


Do you actually ever fact check the drivel you spew?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Actually, I have spoken to my doctor and test now are not allowed (that could have saved a patient's life) because someone "above" - not in the medical field - is saying no we will not cover it. She is correct in that part of what she says. And maybe she is correct in the rest. Don't know.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Pesshe said:


> I too can't believe the bigotry and hatred that is being expressed in this forum. as a woman I have a difficult time understanding why any woman could vote for a republican or tea party agenda .
> 
> Maybe if churches paid,taxes our country would have adequate money to pay for health care which is a persons right not a priivelege.
> 
> ...


Well, get your head out of the sand. Taxes are higher than ever don't know where you live, but do you know my social security is also taxed? It was taxed once, and now when it is my American right to collect the money I paid, it is taxed again.

Well, I am WOMAN, and I am voting for the Republican/Tea Party candicates. The Democrats always have TAXED us to death. Only the have-nots who want more free government money vote Democratic!

Just look at what Obama did for millions of Illegal Immigrants, gave them free time to apply for grants for education that the rest of us cannot qualify for just to secure his election as those people will be allowed to vote. What a quirk!

No woman in her right mind would vote Democratic. So much said!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> unie said:
> 
> 
> > Obama's own Actuary has said that he is trying to use the money he cut from Medicare twice and that will not work,but it didn't stop him and the Dems from pushing the bill through! I don't want 15 appointed people in Washington telling me and my doctor that if I can have a test done!!!!
> ...


rocky 1991

You are expecting much too much from the Right. Facts are
irrelevant to them. Lies are their mainstay.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Pesshe said:
> 
> 
> > I too can't believe the bigotry and hatred that is being expressed in this forum. as a woman I have a difficult time understanding why any woman could vote for a republican or tea party agenda .
> ...


How is you SS taxed?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Pesshe said:
> ...


Did you know that Obama lowered taxes for the middle class 18 times, and it at the lowest it's been in years. Fact check it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Those 15 appointees have no control over you care, however as we speak, the insurance companies sure do. I for one , do not want someone at an insurance company deciding what procedures or medicines I can or cannot have.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on. People who don't have anything like Obama. He'll take care of them. Plus, let's give the immigrants jobs and let the Americans not have them.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Right on. People who don't have anything like Obama. He'll take care of them. Plus, let's give the immigrants jobs and let the Americans not have them.


How do feel about "doing unto others" as in the bible? What would Jesus have said about taking care of those who have problems and can not help themselves? Would he have taken away their food stamps, or SS, or Medicaid? If he would have, He really isn't the Son of G-d.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky 1991

If you think that you can educate the Right, I hate to disappoint you. That is an impossible task.
They do not even understand the difference between "and" and "or". With such a basis, little is there to work with.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Let's separate church and state. It doesn't work.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Ingried said:


> rocky 1991
> 
> If you think that you can educate the Right, I hate to disappoint you. That is an impossible task.
> They do not even understand the difference between "and" and "or". With such a basis, little is there to work with.


Ingried......I think you are my hero. I always enjoy reading your intelligent posts and the Progressive forum is the best.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Unie "Obama wants to be a dictator and if he wins , he'll try a Chalvez trick to change all the laws to suit himself. "

You have GOT to be kidding -- what world are you in? He is the least dictator like leader you have had -- what about Mr. Bush and especially Mr. Cheney -- I can't believe the garbage that is written here.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama has not followed the constitution in doing certain things. This is common knowledge.


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## EileenKelly (Aug 17, 2012)

This has to be the most ridiculous one I've heard yet!
Obama a dictator? Are you off your rocker, woman? Chavez?
You must be very paranoid in personality if you believe that rubbish. You see, unlike the Republican Party, Pres. Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi have the best interests
of our country at heart The Republicans have one interest and that is blocking anything the Pres. proposes. Mitch McConnell,Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, and our gutless Speaker of the House want nothing more than to get the black president out,with no regard for the American people.
As for jobs, the Mexicans are taking the jobs that Americans did not want to do. Low pay and back-breaking work. Working farms, picking corn, shoveling maneur, cleaning toilets at airports, assembly line jobs, etc.
They came here for a better life for their children. i do believe that they should be naturalized and not shipped back after years of working and paying taxes.
By the way I am an attorney for the IRS, and joeysomma, you can take your tax form and do whatever with it as you wish.
You have no ground to stand on with your comment and by the way, I would study a lot harder if I were you. Social Security is taxed as well as Social Security Disability payments. This thread is so bogus, it's almost amusing.
EK


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I cannot believe that you are an attorney for the IRS. Don't believe it.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I cannot believe that you are an attorney for the IRS. Don't believe it.


Lukelucy

Here we go again. How do you function in the real World?
It seems like anytime anyone states facts you write: "I don't believe it". Oi weh!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

EileenKelly said:


> This has to be the most ridiculous one I've heard yet!
> Obama a dictator? Are you off your rocker, woman? Chavez?
> You must be very paranoid in personality if you believe that rubbish. You see, unlike the Republican Party, Pres. Obama, Harry Reid, and Nancy Pelosi have the best interests
> of our country at heart The Republicans have one interest and that is blocking anything the Pres. proposes. Mitch McConnell,Paul Ryan, Eric Cantor, and our gutless Speaker of the House want nothing more than to get the black president out,with no regard for the American people.
> ...


Eileen Kelly
Stick around and more crazy stuff will be "aired" here.
Somewhere someone opened some Gates.
Amazing statements are being made and the sad thing is that the writers believe this stuff.


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

Rocky1991
Yes... I do believe it! I see him lying every day on TV. He says one thing in one speech and the opposite in the next one. 
I did not belittle anything that anyone else said .. but you want to keep me from voicing my opinion... and make ugly remarks. 

I have a right to say what I want .. just as you do, but I will not belittle your opinion. That is my opinion as I plainly stated. 


I have too much respect for myself and other people on this forum to argue with you. 


:thumbdown:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> EileenKelly said:
> 
> 
> > This has to be the most ridiculous one I've heard yet!
> ...


Looks like Eileen Kelly is off the air. Maybe she is in hiding.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > EileenKelly said:
> ...


Oi weh, oi weh, oi weh.
O what fun it is to read the stuff some People write.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yup, here we go again.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Uyvonne said:
> 
> 
> > I have purchased about 25 properties in my lifetime, and yes I have negotiated real estate commissions, some time up, some time down. I have even used a sell yourself agent and paid flat fee (way bellow 6% commission. If you talk to knowledgeable RE agents or brokers, they will tell you that this is not unheard of.
> ...


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Messed up ons reply,in middle of post.


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## EileenKelly (Aug 17, 2012)

Like Lucy, believe what you may. I have no reason to lie about my occupation. It is what it is. 
Country Bumpkin, I am not in hiding, just busy working.
joeysomma, after reading this thread, believe what you will.
I am leaving this thread, because it is just ridiculous. Someone can post in here and 4 people gang up and say "I don't believe it. Doubting Thomas's will always be just that. You cant base your statement on one tax document. There are thousands more out there you could look up that will be contradictory to what you post. some are not avaiable to you or the public. 
I am going back to work, so adios amiga's!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

EileenKelly said:


> Like Lucy, believe what you may. I have no reason to lie about my occupation. It is what it is.
> Country Bumpkin, I am not in hiding, just busy working.
> joeysomma, after reading this thread, believe what you will.
> I am leaving this thread, because it is just ridiculous. Someone can post in here and 4 people gang up and say "I don't believe it. Doubting Thomas's will always be just that. You cant base your statement on one tax document. There are thousands more out there you could look up that will be contradictory to what you post. some are not avaiable to you or the public.
> I am going back to work, so adios amiga's!


Eileen Kelly

As Judge Judy often says: "You can't fix stupid, it is forever".


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> EileenKelly said:
> 
> 
> > Like Lucy, believe what you may. I have no reason to lie about my occupation. It is what it is.
> ...


Oi weh!
I could really make a snide remark here but not necessary since
educated individuals see the shortcomings on a continuous basis already.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > EileenKelly said:
> ...


Joeysomma

And so I shall. Just passed another Test 100%.
So far a perfect record and I am determined not to break that chain.
Will be graduating once more early.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > joeysomma said:
> ...


Joeysomma

Oi weh.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> EileenKelly said:
> 
> 
> > Like Lucy, believe what you may. I have no reason to lie about my occupation. It is what it is.
> ...


Engried why is it the one that has the right answer the stupid one? Just because someone diagrees with you they are called names. Not becoming.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Then why are they "needed"? Sounds to me their job is exactly what the insurance companies do.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Thank you! That is the way I was feeling. I stopped only to be pulled in again. I am stopping because of your great reply. Thank you! I am off it, again. Hopefully, forever.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Right on. People who don't have anything like Obama. He'll take care of them. Plus, let's give the immigrants jobs and let the Americans not have them.
> ...


The people who actually have many problems and are not able to care for themselves are in the minority. No one is going to take away the help they need and receive. NO ONE. We are referring to those people who WANT and EXPECT the government to take care of them, because they don't want to take care of themselves. Big difference.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Hit the nail on the head!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Morningtown said:


> I just registered on KP and was looking at various topics to see what would interest me the most. I stumbled on this topic, and foolishly started reading. I quickly realized this is where all the nut jobs spend their time in worthless argument, insulting each other and generally behaving like fools.
> 
> Nope, this isn't a topic I'm interested in, but it's nice to know that you crazies have a place of your own which makes it so easy to ignore you. How are those padded cells working out for you? Have any of you ever considered staying on your meds so you don't have to be locked up?


Really ??? You just joined KP today and the only thing you read and wrote was about Obamacare? Why did you join to talk about that. Didn't you want to join for knitting. Suspious too me morningtown and Eileen Kelly. Only post on this topic???? Sounds like one of those internet trolls to me.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > EileenKelly said:
> ...


Country Bumpkins
Hello!!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Morningtown said:
> 
> 
> > I just registered on KP and was looking at various topics to see what would interest me the most. I stumbled on this topic, and foolishly started reading. I quickly realized this is where all the nut jobs spend their time in worthless argument, insulting each other and generally behaving like fools.
> ...


Why has the fighting started up again?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It seems to me that all of you on both sides are having a great time -- arguing, insulting and generally being nasty to each other. quite sad, actually. I am wondering the same thing Northwoods gal. for a little while people here were actually discussing things --sad indeed.


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## EileenKelly (Aug 17, 2012)

Cuntry Bumpkins, I can assure you I am no troll. I have posted in other forums. Seems like you like to bait people in to arguments, but I won't bite. It's absurd and a waste of time, education, and energy. 
Have a nice day.
EK


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Ingried
You don't believe what I wrote??? Then you disprove it!!!!But we all know you won't even try!!!!!!!![/quote]

Jm -- you are asking us to prove something that doesn't exist. If it is incorrect, it means it didn't happen so how do you prove something DIDN'T happen ? You should be able to prove something that DID happen as it is a fact. If it DIDN'T happen it isn't a fact - it isn't anything so how do you prove something that never happened in the first place? that is how absolutely
unreasonable you are to expect the impossible. Designer


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

*****The people who actually have many problems and are not able to care for themselves are in the minority. No one is going to take away the help they need and receive. NO ONE*****
-------------------------
so YOU are the judge of this? and how do you know with thousands of people unemployed, ill, unable to work, willing to work but unable to find jobs, how do you know which ones are not telling the truth -- you have made many many flat statements on this forum that implied everyone is trying to take advantage of the system -- but that is just NOT the truth and way down deep you know it. 

You state facts that are not facts. Certainly in all countries there are some people who play the system, but in the world as it is right now -- there are hundreds of thousands of seniors, people with disabilities, unemployed through no fault of their own, -you imply that everyone who is poor is not really poor, but is lazy, and trying to steal from you.

I just find it unbelievable that any thinking person would say that without proof -- and because 'someone' the likes of Rush Limbaugh state it as a fact. I have to take breaks from this site every once in awhile and thank God I don't have to deal with the absolute unreasonableness of these statements and am thankful that I come from Canada - where this isn't happening. I will do everything in my power to fight the possibility that it might happen.

Everytime I read this forum I thank God that I live in a country where people accept truth rather than be infected with lies and 
unbelievable statements, because they want to believe them - it answers their fear. 

As an example - in my Province there was a recent election and a politician who is also a Pastor of a fundamentalist Christian church was running for a position in the Provincial Government. He made the statement, that all Gays and Lesbians were doomed to drown in a river of fire - and spend eternity in hell. 

There was a huge reaction (which would have happened a few years ago in the United States) and he only received l/10th of the vote he received last time. His party which was a new party and which many people thought might win, was beaten badly because the leader did not call him on his statements and strongly state that the party did NOT back the narrow, nasty unbelievable statements of the Minister. They lost the election. 

People in your country used to give others, different than themselves a chance and accept people as they were even if they didn't agree - your country was based on that premise. 

What happened to the Americans who used to care about each other. Now the attitude of some of the people, even on this site - is -- let them sink - it isn't my problem. I find it soooo sad.

I, as some of you know received a pm from one of the people on this forum who is no longer with us - which informed me that because I didn't agree with him/her, I would 'burn in hell' - I am 80 years old and NEVER in my life have I been treated like that. Why- because I dared to disagree with him/her -It still hurts me. What is happening here? I know that you didn't write me that note -- and i am not accusing you but 
what causes someone to feel that hate for someone who doesn't agree with them? Where is this going to leave your beautiful country? What does the future hold if this hate and 
fear, and unkindness is carried on. It doesn't really matter who wins the election, if the leftovers from it divide your country so deeply that it can never be repaired. 

NOTE : I received one public apology and one private message apologizing for the message I received.There were, at that time many more people who were arguing against what I said - I wondered whether, they agreed with the writer. If they didn't wouldn't they have acknowledged that he/she was way out of line like the two who did take the time to talk to me about it?

I have to take another break -- I just feel so badly that you all are doing this to your country and yourselves.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Or to write PM's to admin to try to have people who don't agree with you kicked off the site? Your Madison WI thread went over like a lead balloon. Nobody" took the bait" as Ms Kelly pointed out. So here you are back again, trying to start arguments as usual. Maybe admin should get a letter about you. I will not argue with you. Prove me right, prove me wrong yadayadayada. Sorry, but I do like a good debate, but this is not debating in any sense of the word.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

If someone doesn't provide the proof then they are lying"""""

This forum has 82 pages of statements and I would suggest that at least 40 of those pages have statements that cannot be proved-- does that mean for 40 pages everyone is lying???? A lot of it is OPINIONS, and opinions can be 
made up for many reasons, childhood experiences, religious beliefs, things that have happened, things others have said . many many many things. Not all can be proved. It doesn't mean the person who says them are necessarily lying.

I would like to sit down and have a quiet discussion with you -- I wonder if we could ever meet and have a quality discussion without the nastiness -- I do think we could -- I think you honestly believe what you believe -- and I honestly believe what I believe -- I do think somewhere there has to be some middle ground-- it would be interesting.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Not to make a laughing stock of it. That seems to be the purpose of several that have recently posted on this thread.""

Isn't it possible that those people are in the same place as you are - with the same feelings- and honestly believe in what they say, as you say you do? Isn't it possible that if we stopped telling people 'you are lying' etc. etc. (on both sides) that a discussion could occur. I think so much has been said here over the past month ,that none of us trust each other -- so it would be wasted -- So what are we accomplishing? What can we accomplish unless we all shake hands and agree to let the past nastiness go and have an honest discussion nothing will be accomplished so it is a waste of time-- we are trying to one-up each other - and instead of trying to solve the problems we are trying to 'beat' the other side. We have all lost sight of 
the fact that you HAVE to meet somewhere in the middle for the sake of your country. Just my thoughts. It is very sad and the saddest thing of all is that we are a group of less than 20 people but the same immovable arguments are happening all over your country. very very sad.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

This was just posted on the Progressive site. I wonder whether you believe that this is a lie? Or can you understand that this is real? I wonder whether you agree with Mr. Akin that there are different types of rape -- which implies that the woman is in the wrong and should have to pay for the rest of her life for the acts of some monster" And yes, it is from the Huffington Post - does that mean that this woman is not speaking the truth? It is what I as a Progressive woman believes completely -- that a woman has a right to make decisions about her body - can you honestly, especially if you are a woman say that you don't understand what she is saying?/ I copied the whole letter, but thought that if someone from outside read it -- it would horrify them -- I believe that you should read it. I just hope that you will give it your honest attention - I know that because it is from a Progressive paper you might refuse to read it - but I am asking you to do so -- Maybe you might, as women who likely never have been raped, understand our feelings about it. Another thing -- most of the people who pass the laws are men -most of the people who want to ban abortion and women's choices are men -- can you honestly say that deep in your heart you don't believe and agree with this woman?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eve-ensler/todd-akin-rape_b_1812930.html

------------


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## unie (Dec 4, 2011)

I will leave this topic since only one opinion is accepted. My time is too valuable for this nonsense... I would rather be knitting,painting, or anything else. Have Fun!!!!!!!!!11


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

"Is a copy of the IRS Publication 17 a lie?""


jm -- you just completely ignored my questions -- I don't care about what you are quoting -- I am trying to reach you. I guess the other girls are right -it ain't going to happen -- you don't want it to happen I am not talking about IRS publication l7 - I am talking about trying to reason with each other.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I give up - you are in a little world of your own. I am not talking about IRS l7 or whatever-- I am asking you to READ and think about what a women's rights are - I am asking you to read what this woman who was raped feels and how she is wounded for her lifetime -- and I am asking you to say that you understand her a little bit. I know now that you won't give an inch- so what are we all doing here. close minds -- I feel sicker every time I read this forum -- God help your country if the rest of the people who believe like you do will, like you never talk, never discuss, never give an inch. I had hoped that somewhere there was more than IRS 17 in your thoughts and mind -- obviously you are on that track and nothing else matters. No need to read the letter from that wounded woman -- it won't matter to you anyway - IRS 17 is much more important than a million wounded women. I honestly pray that no one dear to you is ever put in this position like someone dear to me has been. She will never ever be the same -- her life has been scarred -- and yet people blame HER? and feel she should not have control of her own future, her body and her soul?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

1234 designer please don't get so upset. I hope you surgery has healed. You don't need to upset youself. You are still healing. I am serious.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer, you are a very intelligent and compassionate woman. There is only one reason that Jm posts, to start cat fights. It isn't worth your time, since she knows how every woman feels. She knows the entire US tax code too, so no one can post about that either. Let's go to a happier place where people are willing to share ideas and not call people liars for stating an opinion. I think it's time for Admin to shut this thread down. Way too much dissention among the posters. It's gone too far and worn itself out.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

thankyou Country Bumpkins --- I do appreciate it - and I think you mean it. I am just very sad that things are on such a slippery slope -- I just think that reason has gone out the door.

I imagine you feel the same way as jm -- but at least you are talking to me --- I am not asking you to believe in abortion for yourselves. I am asking you to consider letting each person choose for herself. 

Why shouldn't I be able do decide for myself -- you demand that right to decide to live by what you believe ( I am talking to 
JM -- - I don't know whether you are l00% in agreement with her or not) but why do you have the right to decide what I can do with my own life and body -- I am not for a minute demanding that you do the same with your body. I want you to choose for yourself and I want to choose for myself. What about that is so unattainable? You believe - you have the right to believe -- I just don't feel it is right for me to not be given the same courtesy -- and the same rights. It seems so simple to me. 

I agree, Country Bumpkin -- as a Canadian it shouldn't matter to me whether your country goes down the drain, but it does-- not because of any other reason besides the fact that I have always admired your wonderful country -- I have always admired the freedom of expression -- I have always admired the fact that you understand human rights- your country has fought for human rights all over the world, as has mine - but you don't want your own citizens who disagree with you to have those rights? It is beyond my understanding. 

I am sure there are many of us that privately feel the same way- in fact I know that lots of Canadians agree with your views, but we don't force them down each others throats and I will fight with my last breath to see that we don't allow ourselves to follow what is happening here. 

I appreciate it that you care that I am upset Country bumpkins and I believe that your really do -it gives me some feeling of hope. once again I thank you for your concern. I am speaking the truth and I think you know that. Shirley


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Right on Northwoods, this has been my last post here -- I at least know I tried to 
have a conversation with JM but it is hopeless -- I believe that Country Bumpkins does really care that I am upset -- and I will alway believe that.

That is it for me -- and this time I mean it -- I am not going to allow myself to try again. -


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > I give up - you are in a little world of your own. I am not talking about IRS l7 or whatever-- I am asking you to READ and think about what a women's rights are - I am asking you to read what this woman who was raped feels and how she is wounded for her lifetime -- and I am asking you to say that you understand her a little bit. I know now that you won't give an inch- so what are we all doing here. close minds -- I feel sicker every time I read this forum -- God help your country if the rest of the people who believe like you do will, like you never talk, never discuss, never give an inch. I had hoped that somewhere there was more than IRS 17 in your thoughts and mind -- obviously you are on that track and nothing else matters. No need to read the letter from that wounded woman -- it won't matter to you anyway - IRS 17 is much more important than a million wounded women. I honestly pray that no one dear to you is ever put in this position like someone dear to me has been. She will never ever be the same -- her life has been scarred -- and yet people blame HER? and feel she should not have control of her own future, her body and her soul?
> ...


Joeysomma

It would pay for you to read up on tubal Pregnancies.
"Maybe an exception"????????????


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Northwoods Gal said:
> 
> 
> > Designer, you are a very intelligent and compassionate woman. There is only one reason that Jm posts, to start cat fights. It isn't worth your time, since she knows how every woman feels. She knows the entire US tax code too, so no one can post about that either. Let's go to a happier place where people are willing to share ideas and not call people liars for stating an opinion. I think it's time for Admin to shut this thread down. Way too much dissention among the posters. It's gone too far and worn itself out.
> ...


Sure.


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Uyvonne said:


> The baby boomers are the ones that need the health care the most, they are the ones with the homes, they are the ones that the funding should fall on their shoulders. Everyone cannot get a free ride!


hmmm me thinks there might be a bit of a problem with your thinking...apparently you are young or maybe you're just not thinking straight...If you are young then those Baby boomers are your parents and or grandparents...the people who worked all of thier lives to support you and help you grow to be the best that you can be people who paid taxes and not only for their own insurance but for yours too...and if you are my age then you are one of the baby boomers whom you say deserve nothing from the country they defended, the social security they paid into, and the children they supported and raised....and to top it all off they are not asking for a free ride they have already paid thier dues over and over again....and many are still paying into the system as they run their own businesses or work at jobs instead of retiring as they should because of the ungratefulness of all of those whom they've helped through the years...so tell me again how it is that they could possibly even remotely be looking for a free ride....


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> thankyou Country Bumpkins --- I do appreciate it - and I think you mean it. I am just very sad that things are on such a slippery slope -- I just think that reason has gone out the door.
> 
> I imagine you feel the same way as jm -- but at least you are talking to me --- I am not asking you to believe in abortion for yourselves. I am asking you to consider letting each person choose for herself.
> 
> ...


I really do care 1234 designer. I know you are speaking the truth. Please don't get so upset with our opinions. I know you care what happens to our Country. Please don't upset yourself. I pray in the Name of Jesus that you will have the healing you need in your body and eyes. You remind me of my mother when I saw your picture on. My heart softened for you and your eyes and surgery you had. My mother had it done too. Please take care of yourself. If you have had 3 bad years, I pray for three good years of health and happiness. God loves you and so do I. :thumbup:


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Ingried said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > Designer1234 said:
> ...


Yes, I thought the same, no baby survives if it remains in a fallopian tube! an ectopic or tubal pregnancy = one dead baby and, if no intervention, dead mother


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> No I did not read the letter. I very seldom read the Huffington post.
> I deal in facts not opinions.


Fact: a tubal pregnancy always calls for abortion otherwise mother dies along with baby when everything turns to mush inside Mom's belly...
Fact: It is my body, my soul, my feelings, therefore IT IS MY CHOICE!
Fact: It is my hope that as a woman you would not begrudge another the right to make that choice for herself even if it is not a choice that you would make....
Fact: I hope you have a wonderful day..


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

*****The people who actually have many problems and are not able to care for themselves are in the minority. No one is going to take away the help they need and receive. NO ONE*****
-------------------------
"so YOU are the judge of this? and how do you know with thousands of people unemployed, ill, unable to work, willing to work but unable to find jobs, how do you know which ones are not telling the truth -- you have made many many flat statements on this forum that implied everyone is trying to take advantage of the system -- but that is just NOT the truth and way down deep you know it." 

Please provide these flat statements. I think that is your mind set, not mine. I never said they were not telling the truth, nor did I say that "everyone is trying to take advantage of the system". You are the one saying that.


Which of "my" facts are not facts? The ones from the CBO, IRS, Labor department, certain polls (from reputable polling sites).


" Certainly in all countries there are some people who play the system, but in the world as it is right now -- there are hundreds of thousands of seniors, people with disabilities, unemployed through no fault of their own, -you imply that everyone who is poor is not really poor, but is lazy, and trying to steal from you."

I have not implied that at all. You are blowing it all out of proportion. I said that for those people that really need the help because they are seriously disabled and/or ill and cannot take care of themselves, the help will be there. No one wants to take this help away. 

I just find it unbelievable that any thinking person would say that without proof -- and because 'someone' the likes of Rush Limbaugh state it as a fact...

I do not listen to Rush Limbaugh, nor have I ever quoted "someone" the likes this man. 

"People in your country used to give others, different than themselves a chance and accept people as they were even if they didn't agree - your country was based on that premise."

I agree with you on this, we have certainly lost our way. 

"... Why- because I dared to disagree with him/her -It still hurts me. What is happening here? I know that you didn't write me that note -- and i am not accusing you but 
what causes someone to feel that hate for someone who doesn't agree with them? "

Rereading your past posts, I think you know the answer. You have also been less than kind in some of your responses. It goes both ways.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Astounding how uncaring the Christians have become.
Of course that is the very reason that they are losing ground on a grand scale around the Globe.
Egotism, hatred has replaced humanity.


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Astounding how uncaring the Christians have become.


Ingried, 
I am feeling very upset about this blanket statement that you have made...
Not only am I offended for myself but for the many Christians who bend over backwards day in and day out making donations and volunteering to help out those who are less fortunate than they are even when they can not afford to do so...
There are good and bad in every group and if you have a need to point out the bad in that certain group then I am going to again ask that you all please be careful in the statements you make pertaining to groups of people and not include the whole group in them as not everyone in the group is the same as the person that you happen to be dealing with...And FYI statements like these are considered very prejudice in nature and are better left unsaid....


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Astounding how uncaring the Christians have become.
> Of course that is the very reason that they are losing ground on a grand scale around the Globe.
> Egotism, hatred has replaced humanity.


Your generalization is deliberately offensive and shows your anti-Christian bias. "Losing ground on a grand scale around the Globe"? You wish!

Looking for "egotism'? I see it frequently in YOUR posts with your touting your own education, experience, superior thinking, etc., as well as the condescension directed at others here on KP.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Pesshe said:
> ...


Duh! It is taxed as Income! Hello!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Morningtown said:
> 
> 
> > I just registered on KP and was looking at various topics to see what would interest me the most. I stumbled on this topic, and foolishly started reading. I quickly realized this is where all the nut jobs spend their time in worthless argument, insulting each other and generally behaving like fools.
> ...


Lighten up everyone and just WELCOME Morningtown to our forum as not everyone agrees with the goings on with this topic. Last time I noticed, we have freedom of speech so Morningtown has a right to speak her mind as I am sure she was shocked to find such a topic such as this one going crazy.

Now, can we get back to being helpful with any pattern or craft item and be friends! Strut your stuff ladies as I know all of you are really crafty ladies so post a picture of those wonderful items you make.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


It is taxed only if you have other income, you are only allowed to earn so much money a year...then you are taxed. 
You are quite a rude person, probably an under educated angry white person who is afraid that this country is becoming browner and you white folk are losing your grasp on this country.Motivated by anger, hatred and fear. I feel sorry for you. It must be horrible to live in the darkness of you mind. 
As a woman you are a horribly misguided. Do you really dislike women that much that you would vote against your own best interests. If you don't like abortion for yourself, that's fine with me. I choose choice, not your choice or his choice or their choice......MY CHOICE. I also like to get paid what I am worth, as any man would. I like Social Security, and Medicare and Medicaid. I earned what I have and don't want anyone taking that away from me. I love our National Parks. I don't want anyone drilling there. I like the clean water I am drinking and the clean air I am breathing. I want that for everyone, not just for me. 
I am not a Christian do not want to be a Christian, but I live my life by their tenets. Do you?


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Janeway,
Apparently if your SS retirement benefits are being taxed then you are still making at least $25,000 a year in other income(more if you are a couple) plus half of your SS according to last years tax laws...
Also FYI SS deductions are taken out of your pay before taxes and therefore not taxed when you originally pay into the system and Now only a small part of it will be taxed as income because you make more than the base amount through other incomes...


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Explanation


----------



## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Frankie 2963
> You do pay taxes on the Social Securiy and Medicare that is with held from your paycheck. Check the W-2 you get for tax time. Box 1 is your taxable income. Box 3 is your social security income. For most employees, these two numbers are the same. The amount in box 3 is the amount your social security tax is based on. If the amounts are different, there is usually an amount in box 12 and an explaination .


ok what you are saying is they take my income and figure what taxes I owe on it then take that from my paycheck right...so does that mean that my taxes are also taxed?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

frankie2963 said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Astounding how uncaring the Christians have become.
> ...


frankie 2963
When Churches are increasing in size and their numbers are ever growing in this country while Families in ever greater numbers are homeless, living in cars and tents, food pantries are forever begging for stock, something has gone wrong with Christianity.
If each and every Church would give just 10% of their income to help the Needy, there would be few Needy left anywhere in the World. 27,000 Children dying of starvation each day and
that is acceptable? Sell the Church held properties and feed the hungry and pray sitting under the Sky instead of doing it in
pompous buildings.
I know it hurts when we again and again have to be told that we are our Brother's Keepers.

Seeing and speaking about pain around me is prejudice?
Excuse me. 
Fact is that now and then any of us need a wake-up call.
If anyone is offended by what I said, examine yourself why you are upset. Did you perhaps not do all you could have?
I am guilty of it all too often, no doubt.


----------



## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Seeing and speaking about pain around me is prejudice?


No it is not and had you actually made statements about the pain that you saw rather than a blanket statement about a group of people then I would not have been insulted....what you said is the same as saying that all Non-belivers are evil...or that all people of a certain race are bad or to be feared....I seriously take offense at many such statements and not due to any guilt on my part but due to the total unfairness of the statement itself....
to top it off the churches that you speek of more than likely are not Christian or are not following accepted practices...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> frankie2963 said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


My church does give 10%. Also not a fancy building but what if the God of the Universe had the best building? He is the Lord and deserves it for His Body of Believers? I have yet to hear on the news or know of any person in my state that has died of stravation. In fact the whole USA is over weigh. Most churches even the small ones have food pantries. But the people I have seen are in Mersades and very large people that are hogging the food. If you can afford a big fancy SUV you can buy your own food. I know there are goverment and church funding food. My family one year at Christmas helped a family with coats and food . They turned around and sold the kids coats for drugs. The kids still came to school without the coats in the winter. When people expect others to pay their way they don't even respect themselves. I try to do my part but maybe they need to help themselves. No one but my family and I are taking care of me. Except when my husband got ran over by his own train he was conductor of. The whole church rallied around us. They came everyother day to feed us for 2 months. I made them stop and they were upset. Collected money for us, cleaned my house. They evern came to my house while we were in the hosiptal and decorated my house for Christmas so my kids could have a decent home with my husband cut into pieces. We have good caring people that have been by our side. I try to help when I see a need. Christians are not perfect they have just asked for forgiveness for their sins. But they do love to help people .


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

There are so many people out there quietly helping others. It's not all about giving money. Time, thought and energy count for a lot. They go unnoticed because they give without ostentation or fanfare, they just get on with it.


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

tryalot said:


> There are so many people out there quietly helping others. It's not all about giving money. Time, thought and energy count for a lot. They go unnoticed because they give without ostentation or fanfare, they just get on with it.


I totally agree with this statement...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

frankie2963 said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > There are so many people out there quietly helping others. It's not all about giving money. Time, thought and energy count for a lot. They go unnoticed because they give without ostentation or fanfare, they just get on with it.
> ...


I agree too. It is easy to give money but the sacifice is helping with a need. It is called Mercy or Love. :thumbup:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

frankie2963 said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Seeing and speaking about pain around me is prejudice?
> ...


frankie 2963
I never said anything about anyone being evil.
Am I the only one hearing so many these days speaking of being Christian while they have no misgivings speaking ill of others and particularly those who are receiving come kind of aid (Welfare, Food Stamps etc.)?

Do we need Crystal Cathedrals to pray to a God who was the
simplest of all Men? A Man who condemned the Rich and asked the rest to pay their Taxes?

Perhaps it is the fact that I personally have experienced homelessness and hunger that makes me so critical of others who have no understanding for such circumstances.
And when I see constant expansion of already elaborate Churches while the homeless are continuously getting kicked out of Parks and abandoned Houses, I do not see Christianity,
I see and feel Ego. That is not how we were taught by our Pastor. His little Chapel truly echoed the Word of God which among other things asked us to be our Brother's Keeper.

Food for thought that is all I want to give.
Ingried


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## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Ingried said:


> frankie 2963
> I never said anything about anyone being evil.


No you did not and I did not say that you did...



Ingried said:


> Am I the only one hearing so many these days speaking of being Christian while they have no misgivings speaking ill of others and particularly those who are receiving come kind of aid (Welfare, Food Stamps etc.)?


No you are not the only one hearing them but you need to remember that they are not representitive of all Christians therefore we should counter their hypocracy with good, kind, and proper acts and leave their judgement to the Lord when the time comes...


Ingried said:


> Do we need Crystal Cathedrals to pray to a God who was the simplest of all Men? A Man who condemned the Rich and asked the rest to pay their Taxes?


No and my church is a one room board building that my community built over a hundred years ago...again those buildings are not typical of all congergations...


Ingried said:


> Perhaps it is the fact that I personally have experienced homelessness and hunger that makes me so critical of others who have no understanding for such circumstances.


Been there done that...yes you probably are a little more sensitive to the things around you that show a blantant waste of resources...I know that I am...so here again our actions must counter these We need to show a good understanding of what it means to be down and out by giving a helping hand back up....


Ingried said:


> And when I see constant expansion of already elaborate Churches while the homeless are continuously getting kicked out of Parks and abandoned Houses, I do not see Christianity,I see and feel Ego.


 I know of a congregation whose only expansion was to add a homeless shelter(lumber and labor all donations from the people of the community) not elaborate in my eyes but it will serve it's purpose....and with that exspansion hopefully there will be no one in the Parks and abandoned houses to kick out....And I believe to help counter the problems caused by those you speak of we should open our homes and our hearts to shelter those who need to be sheltered.... here again the things you speak of are not typical of most congregations...


Ingried said:


> That is not how we were taught by our Pastor. His little Chapel truly echoed the Word of God which among other things asked us to be our Brother's Keeper.


This is also the way that I was taught...and I have been my brothers keeper for as long as I can remember.....



Ingried said:


> Food for thought that is all I want to give.
> Ingried


As you should and we all should WE just need to be careful as to the statements we use and the wording of those statements so that they will cause people to think about what is happening around them today without causing feelings of being insulted or injured whch in turn could cause them to become defensive and comepletely close their minds to anything we have to say...
I hope that you nor anyone else will take offense at my answers to your statements and I am sorry that you have had such a bad experience whith those people whom you have encountered but I can assure you that not all Christians are that way....


----------



## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

"Two men looking out through the prison bars
one sees mud, the other sees stars"

I don't know who wrote this, just seems appropriate to the
Frankie/Ingried discussion


----------



## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> In fact the whole USA is over weigh.


Fact: My sister two brothers 4 nieces my daughter and granddaughter 2 sons and a son inlaw are all underwieght so I don't think the whole USA is overwieght...
Fact: there are thousands of children here in the USA who have no Idea where their next meal will come from and they are severely malnourished and under wieght....


----------



## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

tryalot said:


> "Two men looking out through the prison bars
> one sees mud, the other sees stars"
> 
> I don't know who wrote this, just seems appropriate to the
> Frankie/Ingried discussion


you are saying that we have two different views on the same subject is that correct or am I not understanding what the meaning of that quote is...


----------



## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

frankie2963 said:


> tryalot said:
> 
> 
> > "Two men looking out through the prison bars
> ...


Gold star!!!


----------



## frankie2963 (Mar 25, 2012)

tryalot said:


> Gold star!!!


Cool I like getting gold stars... :thumbup:

Yes I agree that we have different views of the same subject IMHO that fact is what makes it a good conversation and without those differences we would have nothing to talk about for we would see the world exactly the same and therefore have no need to discuss what we see...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

As you should and we all should WE just need to be careful as to the statements we use and the wording of those statements so that they will cause people to think about what is happening around them today without causing feelings of being insulted or injured :::

Frankie - I am l00% in agreement with you -- we must not paint everyone with the same brush -- Flat statements like those that have been made on this forum are very counter productive.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

I am now getting the impression that the responders to what I wrote are living in totally different areas than I do.
I live in the Suburbs of a large City, moved there when it still was primarily Farmland BUT no longer. 
We had old Farmhouses around us with the wonderful sounds of
Roosters, Geese, Dogs, the occasional sound of the mooing of a Cow or the "laughter" of a Horse. Pigs had their muddy areas to take a Bath in and Cats and Dogs galore roaming around. All gone, instead
there are now Enclaves with very expensive Homes surrounded by Iron Fences or Brick Walls. Churches sprang up
and each one bigger than the last one. While these changes took place in the Suburbs, need in the urban areas grew by leaps and bounds. 
Now even going to Church takes some research for the People
living in the Enclaves. They now want to go where they make "the right connections". Churches have turned into clubs of sorts rather than are houses of worship.
That is what I am surrounded by and the
picture is not pretty. Oh sure, money is given to the Churches
and the additional offerings are being collected on large flat plates for anyone to see what the next Person put on it.
A contest of sorts. 
Often contributions to the Church are offset by getting a Scholarship to the Church owned School. That is how it is done.
I report about what I know and if someone takes issue with it,
so be it. I know, the truth can be very painful.
By the way, the very old (over 150 year old Church), which was the only one in the area initially, is long gone, taken by eminent domain. A "Palace" belonging to a different Congregation now has replaced it. 

Now only one little very old Farmhouse left as well as a small log Cabin to the dismay of the Mansion owners. 

My World.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Wow, might know you would pull the black race card as all of you do. I did not say anything against blacks! Where do you get off by telling me I am an uneducated WHITE woman? Well, I hold a BS in Business with an emphasis in Accounting and a minor in Economics. How is your education going?

First of all, I am a full blooded American Indian (Apache) so I am not white. Besides why would you think I hate you as I don't even know you. You are just upset because I posted my opinion.

Never, did I say anything about the black community. I just don't like that my SS is taxed. I also did not say anything against abortion as that is a "woman's" decision and I will not CONDEMN her for her decision. Until we walk in another person's shoes, we should not condemn -- such as yourself.

Why have you not tried to get to know me before you WROTE SUCH HATEFUL REMARKS? You must hate everyone who writes about how they feel on any subject.

Get a life, do a little quick step and most of all laugh!

Do I really care if you are christian or not, ABSOLUTELY NOT! But, I will pray for your soul in my Indian religion in hopes that you will someday see the light about people who do love one another.

Now, you may write your hatred but I won't read it so don't waste your time. My color is RED! JW


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


Never said Black.........however as a Native American, you should have more empathy for those who are in need. I do not hate you but pity you. Educated, my arse. Your mind is not open, but closed by mindless acceptance of what is preached, not researched.....

No need to reply...........I have had enough of this formum. Stupid is as stupid does.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Overweight.

There are many reasons for obesity. Very frequently poor nutrition is the cause. Has nothing to do with eating junk food, it has to do with eating what is available and affordable.

When Potatoes cost one dollar per pound, what does one turn to to eat to no longer be hungry?
Give it some thought before pointing fingers.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


A KP friend sent a PM that I should read this reply. First, You called me "white" and uneducated! But, you cannot even spell ASS! My mind is open but as everyone can see you are the closed-minded one on this forum.

Yes, stupid is as stupid does -- where is your education? You thought you were calling me stupid, but read your actions!

You are leaving because you cannot take the heat so you are leaving the kitchen! Good!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Back on the funding obamacare. http://cnsnews.com/news/article/under-obamacare-medicare-double-taxation-begins-2013 Let me know if I don't have it copied right.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


My my. I see your time spent in the "Cafe" has turned you into one of them. Designer1234, Rocky1991 is also making many many flat statements. What, no criticism if her? Double standard again, so typical of Progressives.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


University educated i the northeast, bleeding heart liberal you might say..........ad i meant to spell Arse exactly that way. Actually I can stand the heat, just not gross stupidity, such as yours ad some others in this forum. See Ya!!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


rocky 1991

Let us make it perfectly clear that "liberal" is an honourable term
and we wear it with great pride. 
Liberal after all encompasses, conservative, moderate, independent, educated. How could it be any better?!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Liberal does not encompass moderate, conservative people - maybe sometime educated. Liberal encompasses 
beyond the border -living on the edge - thinking.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Liberal does not encompass moderate, conservative people - maybe sometime educated. Liberal encompasses
> beyond the border -living on the edge - thinking.


Oi weh!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

My my. I see your time spent in the "Cafe" has turned you into one of them. Designer1234, ""

Thanks for your attention -- you have no idea - At least I tried to discuss-but it was not accepted. I am me -- I am a Progressive, I was a Democrat 40 years ago -- I didn't 'turn' into anything. 

I have made a couple of friends on this thread who don't agree with me and who I don't agree with, but we have been able to have a conversation, privately, and it is good.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> My my. I see your time spent in the "Cafe" has turned you into one of them. Designer1234, ""
> 
> Thanks for your attention -- you have no idea - At least I tried to discuss-but it was not accepted. I am me -- I am a Progressive, I was a Democrat 40 years ago -- I didn't 'turn' into anything.
> 
> I have made a couple of friends on this thread who don't agree with me and who I don't agree with, but we have been able to have a conversation, privately, and it is good.


 :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Possibly because we do have things in common -- aside from our differences, and we care about the same things -- and we decided, each of us to look for the things we liked about each other, and we decided that even though we might not be on the same page about some things, we ARE on the same page about a lot of very very important things. We just took the time to talk about it instead of argue about it and refuse to bend -some people here should try it - Shirley


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

As you know, I am a Canadian -- and many people ask me what the difference is between America and Canada -- PLEASE take a few minutes to watch this video by Michael Moore. I am aware that he is not that popular to those who are Conservatives- But I give you my word, none of this is untrue every bit of it is true. A lot of you have gotten to know me and know that I am not a liar, I am not pushing my feelings and I have tried to have conversations -- I have lived in Canada, ALL MY LIFE - and I really would ask that you watch this. Maybe 
you will understand where I am coming from. Please don't refuse to watch it because it is Michael Moore.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I watched the video in its entirety. It is great that Canada has so few problems that we have here. But, does it represent the whole country (how is Montreal's crime rate?). Also, what has Canada invented or come up with that the world has desired in the past 15 years? In other words, what has been innovative in Canada. 

I agree the USA has big problems. I live in a place that is quiet. We moved here to get away from it all. But, Canada must have other problems. I'd like to know the stats for survival for major illnesses. 

After watching the video, I am not convinced. Sorry.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Lukelucy -- I wondered what the reaction would be. not surprised. 

One thing we have 'come up with for the past 60 years are United Nations Peacekeepers. Our armed forces have been in other countries who are at war with each other -- unarmed, and on the front lines between two warring countries all over the world. We also were responsible for the Canadaarm which was used for space travel for years. I am sure we have done nothing that has been desired by the world in the past l5 years. 

We are just that country north of you that few people in the States gives a second thought to -- what possible thing could a place like that do that is innovative and would add to the world? After all, we are just that country that borders the States that you don't have to worry about - as we have an open border, which is quite handy. I am sure that the States is much better at doing things for the world than we are. I bow to your intelligent questions. One thing we didn't contribute - troops for Vietnam, or Iraq , one thing we didn't do was invade a country to 'get back' at a country that wasn't even responsible for the things we invaded that country for.

I don't know Montreal's crime rate but I would bet l00dollars that it is half of Detroits which is not as large a city if I am not mistaken, or New Yorks, or 
Los Angeles -- I realize that we have done nothing innovative in Canada-your questions meant to be insulting -- I am not insulted-- I am not even surprised. Whatever you wish to think -- what you saw in that tape is the truth. Not once in any of my posts have I insulted or tried to insult the United States- 

A lot of people have asked me what differences there are between our countries -- this film showed a lot of the differences-- I am not going to justify the differences - I would be interested to see if others on this forum from the Conservatives agree with you. But then, I don't think I do want to know, as it saddens me. You won't give an inch ---

I had made up my mind and meant it - not to post here any more, but I keep on trying -- I think you have finally gotten me to the point where I don't even want to try anymore. I hope so as believe it or not -- I do care -wonder why, when people like you ridicule my country and our way of life. No need to answer that - you and I both know that your question was insulting and sadly, meant to be insulting -Canadians deal with that attitude quite a lot - and I have run into it from SOME Americans before -although I can already imagine your post which denies that- look up on the internet what, if anything Canada has contributed in the past l5 years. I am sure you won't find anything of value --


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I have lived in Canada all my life -- and the attitude and the things that were shown were not set up- as you imply.

I have lived in Toronto, Vancouver, (both large cities) Calgary which is a medium sized city - Strathmore which is a small town, The attitudes are those of Canadians -- We are not perfect- we do have weirdos, we do have drug problems (usually the drugs come up from the United states (another truth). We do have crimes - we do have riots, but we also have less crime per capita than the States. Our young people know a lot more about the States than American Young people know about us. 

It showed that some of us do have more than one gun -- it also showed that there is MUCH MUCH less gun crime here than in the states. I was waiting for you to say something JM -- and you said exactly what I expected you to say -- if something is not able to be argued with then you say it is 'fixed'. Never the possibility that you are hearing the truth as you don't want it to be the truth -- you might then have to question what you want for your country.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Ontario and Quebec - the crime rate in Ontario and Quesbec is much lower than other parts of the country --""

WHAT? Our main population is in Ontario and Quebec -- the two Provinces have more people than all the others put together -- unbelievable!!! Truth is not a necessary thing when you make statements - let lies fall where they may, someone might believe them and then you win????? not likely. Even most Americans know that the the largest population is in central Canada --That is where MOST of our crime is and Vancouver-is another place with a HUGE population and more crime. Get your facts straight if you want to make these statements.

So you are saying that we have more crime in Calgary and Strathmore, and other smaller communities than in the two largest Provinces? that is like saying that Seattle Washington, or St. George Utah, or Billings Montana has much more crime than Detroit, or LA or New York. what a crock!!!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I have spent a lot of my time trying to talk to you - you are so close minded that if I PROVED black was white you would would deny it. no more.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I must apologize-- you know much more about Canada than I do -- and I bow to your superior information. Certainly - Toronto and Montreal and vancouver have less crime than Strathmore Alberta, Calgary, Alberta and other cities in the East and west. I know you know everything about everything - including my country - I know that you 'study things and only deal with facts -- good for you. I am sorry your gas was taken from your gas can - my gosh I hope you called the police. I am glad you 'have a cottage' in Ontario --- and I am glad there is less crime in Ontario than in New Brunswick, or Prince Edward Island, or Saskatchewan, or Alberta or Manitoba. I am sure they would be interested in learning that. 

That has so much to do with what we are talking about.

I bow to your superior knowledge about EVERYTHING-- I am wondering why you are not running in the next election. I am sure that someone with your vast knowledge could turn all the problems of your country around all you would have to do is check the facts about the the problems -- check the 'facts' about other countries but (make sure you use the right facts, that fit your opinion) No more


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am sorry you think I am being childish - I guess at my age that is a compliment -- I do so enjoy you talking down to me. At my age it is an interesting experience.


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## pegyy896 (Jul 13, 2012)

Thanks for sharing!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

An 81 year old student - funny-- I thought I knew more about my country than an American who owns a cottage there - but then, who am I to think that? Thanks for the explanation.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> An 81 year old student - funny-- I thought I knew more about my country than an American who owns a cottage there - but then, who am I to think that? Thanks for the explanation.


This is not like you at all, something must be getting you down. I rely on you to provide the common sense here.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Oh, my your education is showing!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

tryalot -- I am weary of trying to bring a sense of reason -to this thread. 
I read for the first time a tape of Michael moore's BowlingColumbine in which he interviewed Canadians in some of the cities in Ontario. It was made quite a few years ago-but people have asked me what differences there are between Canada and the United states. I just watched it tonight - and felt it DID represent truthfully, the differences -- I realize it was a few years ago but the differences are still the same and the people's attitudes are still the same. I asked the 
people here to look at it - and explained that I felt it showed our differences. 


You can read the answers I got and I finally realized that I can never 
reason with people who don't want to know -the truth. I appreciate it that you realize what I have been trying to do here - but I certainly haven't succeeded- obviously. I worry about what is happening in America and am very thankful that I live in Canada.
========
to change the subject -- I have always wanted to visit Tasmania -- we have been to OZ on three different occasions and love it there. What a wonderful place -- I have an on line friend from Tazzie and would love to visit her sometime. I like your name tryalot - the story of my life on this thread - grin.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Lukelucy -- I wondered what the reaction would be. not surprised.
> 
> One thing we have 'come up with for the past 60 years are United Nations Peacekeepers. Our armed forces have been in other countries who are at war with each other -- unarmed, and on the front lines between two warring countries all over the world. We also were responsible for the Canadaarm which was used for space travel for years. I am sure we have done nothing that has been desired by the world in the past l5 years.
> 
> ...


Designer 1234

Nothing is ever as obvious as that some People here are ALWAYS digging to start some discourse.
May we realize that they have personal problems of grand proportions and nothing anyone can ever say, will find acceptance. 
What a miserable Life theirs must be.
How lucky that the rest of us do not suffer such fate.
Designer it is not just Canadians these Folks do not like, they
like no-one, not even themselves.
Never become disenchanted with the People south of your Country. Americans in general are very accepting, kind and caring People. It is just a handful of "ugly Americans" who have the need to tarnish our good name. 
We are really good People and so much like you and feel a real kindship with you.
Your Country is absolutely beautiful and your People are truly
great. Would live there in a Heartbeat.
We return to Canada as often as possible and always feel right at Home. NEVER encountered anyone being not kind. You can be proud of being Canadian. 
Hugs.
Ingried


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > I have lived in Canada all my life -- and the attitude and the things that were shown were not set up- as you imply.
> ...


Joeysomma
What really is your problem? 
Is your aim to antagonize everyone no matter what?
Please, get some help, you need it desperately.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Ingried -- thanks, I appreciate your support but I can fight my own battles -- no need to defend me. I am very secure in my knowledge and feelings about Canada.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I did not mean to be insulting at all when I asked about innovations. I was just asking. 

Personally, I think Canada would be a great place to live (as long as I felt secure with the health care). I think America is in big trouble for many, many reasons. 

Please, no insult intended.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

apology accepted. Sometimes you come across as being very arrogant - at other times you come across as being very nice. I hope it is the nice.

Our health care has worked for years. We pay about l00.00 a month to cover most of the costs our Ambulance, medications and some procedures. We can choose to pay for Alberta Blue cross or we can use individual company insurance for meds and ambulance, teeth, eyes, etc. Alberta or (whatever Province you live in covers Alberta Health Care which covers hospitals etc. My husband had major major heart surgery 2 years ago- was in the hospital for 45 days, had his mitral valve and his aortic valve replaced as well as bypasses. He also had received a double by pass l5 years ago. We never received even one bill. 

To us it is as important as food- our medications, without BLue cross would cost us $ 500.00 every two months if we didn't have Blue Cross insurance. When my husband got out of the Canadian army we carried on, for $15.00 per month the health insurance that he had while in the army. Blue cross covers over 75% of the cost of MOST our meds (some are not covered but we can go to Blue cross if we have special needs and will be given a hearing) -- our other insurance policy covers 85% of what is left, after blue cross has paid. Our bill last month - for both our meds was $499.74 (original cost) blue cross covered 75% of that and our 
other insurance paid 85% of the balance we still owed-- we figure we might have paid 
30.00 out of pocket. (I am not sure of the exact amount but it is in that ball park) better to pay the $ll5.00 per month than to have to pay 500.00 every two months- (that does not cover Hospitals etc. )It is free (or actually paid by the Government through our taxes)

I am using approximate figures- my husband does the math and keeps track. I just checked with him and these are the approximate figures. 

-It has to start somewhere -- isn't it better to start than not to have insurance at all? It will get more expensive the longer you wait for health care.

I don't begrudge the fact that Our health care is paid from our taxes -- by the Government - it is a fact of life . Blue cross is paid on different levels depending on what care you wish to pay for. We pay the top price for coverage for seniors for meds, ambulance and some tests and procedures. When we go into the hospital we are charged nothing for meds, for operations, for food, all hospital costs are covered by Alberta (or Canada Health care)

Before someone jumps me with a statement or question -- yes, some things are NOT covered - physio coverage was just stopped because of the cut backs - however, Physio if you are a hospital patient recovering from surgery IS covered. There are sometimes long waits for procedures, but if you go into emergency with something very serious you are bumped ahead of non serious patients and get immediate care - as in the case of my husband.

I AM NOT AN EXPERT-and I am not on trial here - I am not interested in knit picking our health care- I am just explaining a general over view of our system from the point of view of two seniors- who are not rich, and who have worked all our lives (which I am sure you are doing or have done)which is a GOOD system and which save many people's lives. I have visited a specialist for my eyes for l0 years- have not paid one cent directly to him -- for surgical procedures or anything else- it is covered. We would have had to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for my husband's surgeries. 

This doesn't happen over night -- but it had to start somewhere. I am thankful that someone - years ago - had the courage to set up a program in a small way and ignore the nay sayers -- their families now benefit from our Health care. 

Yes -- it does cover people on welfare -People on welfare for whatever reason are citizens too- yes, there are a few people (percentage wise) who abuse the system -- but basically it works. Yes -- with the way the economy is-- there is talk of privatizing some care- (charging directly for those who can afford it, and CHOOSE to jump ahead of the line and go to a private facility for quicker surgery or care) we have fought this, but I won't be surprised if it happens -- they would not have the long waits and would pay for their care themselves - which would open up spaces for those on the general system. There are problems but it is so much better than no insurance - and the situation in the States. 

I am not interested in any knit picking (Canadian for picking my post apart and trying to find things wrong with it) there ARE things wrong with it , but it
sure is better than what is going on in other countries and especially the states. We still care about each other up here -we don't begrudge helping each other - 

I am now waiting for JM to demand 'proof' however, you will have to take my word for it - the above tells you about our experience - - it is the truth. I understand that you don't want to pay taxes, I understand that you don't want to pay for those who are 'using' the system - I understand that there will be abuse of the system -- I also understand that it has become a major problem as far as the election goes - the three plans that are such bones of contention are much alike -- but it has become a Political fight - to me it would be so much better if both sides got together and TRIED to meet on middle ground. But then I am one of the lucky ones who is covered -- enough from me about this. I won't be drawn into an argument about it.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

When I come across as "not nice" it is really fear speaking. Obama scares me to death. 

Also, many people who need health care are people who don't take care of themselves. Where is their responsibility? I just think that health care is not a right. Sorry about that. I have come across too many people who want a handout and are unwilling to work. Boy, there are a lot of them. That is my gripe.

In general the USA is in a big mess, starting with children who feel entitled. (I realize some children are not like this). I could go on and on.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

so you are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for surgeries like my husbands, and you are willing to let the 'too many people who want a handout to just die -- (by the way, what about the ones who are legitimately on welfare, I guess they are just going to be thrown away too. If I were an American -- Romney would scare me to death-- I am scared to death by Romney and the far right and I don't even live here. that is just the way it is -- You are focused on the bad people -- but I believe there are thousands -even millions of good people. So you just throw them away too. I will never see that that is the answer. They aren't going away.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

For the first time I feel we are having a discussion -- wonders never cease!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

People who do the right thing regarding taking care of themselves need help. (In the UK, people who smoke and don't take care of themselves do not get the same level of care as people who do. I am told that by a UK citizen). 

I have worked really hard for my health care. And I take care of myself.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> My my. I see your time spent in the "Cafe" has turned you into one of them. Designer1234, ""
> 
> Thanks for your attention -- you have no idea - At least I tried to discuss-but it was not accepted. I am me -- I am a Progressive, I was a Democrat 40 years ago -- I didn't 'turn' into anything.
> 
> I have made a couple of friends on this thread who don't agree with me and who I don't agree with, but we have been able to have a conversation, privately, and it is good.


Designer1234, I was referring to Rocky1991 making flat statements in her/his response to Janeway and just wanted to bring that to your attention, since you accused me of making them. I'm glad you found new friends on the KP forum. It would be nice to have a friendly discussion here, IN THE OPEN, as happens in the majority of threads on KP.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy

If any Children feel entitled, they were reared that way. Do not blame them.
None of the Young I am around feel that way at all. They work hard, study hard, are careful with their money. 
I am proud of all of them, no exceptions. 

Sure there are some Young who are looking for a handout
but painting all of them with a broad brush is greatly unfair.
Neither am I around Folks who are looking for a hand-out,
they are looking for a hand-up instead. You need to change your surroundings if only negative vibes are coming your way.

Yes we are having many problems these days, it all started with Bush getting us into idiotic, selfish Wars and then the Greedy
sending our jobs abroad. 
Talk about Entitlements. The Welfare to the well-to-do outweighs what Needy get by a wide margin.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> As you know, I am a Canadian -- and many people ask me what the difference is between America and Canada -- PLEASE take a few minutes to watch this video by Michael Moore. I am aware that he is not that popular to those who are Conservatives- But I give you my word, none of this is untrue every bit of it is true. A lot of you have gotten to know me and know that I am not a liar, I am not pushing my feelings and I have tried to have conversations -- I have lived in Canada, ALL MY LIFE - and I really would ask that you watch this. Maybe
> you will understand where I am coming from. Please don't refuse to watch it because it is Michael Moore.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Surely there are much better videos out there that portray Canada as the wonderful country it is."

You are likely quite right - I had not seen it before and it did express to me how we feel up here in my opinion. So many people have asked me how Canadians feel about the things that are being discussed --it expressed my feelings quite well. It also expressed how the Canadians I know,feel. I am sure there are others who feel very differently. I am one person. 

I am not trying to push Michael Moore's agenda-However I want to make it clear that I agree with 85- 90% of what I have heard him say. I just agreed with what the Canadians were saying in the link. I am sure you are aware that I am one of those people who would be a democrat or a Progressive if I was an American and I do agree with his feelings about guns and about a lot of other things -I realize that most of those on the right don't. I just feel strongly that somehow there must be some communication between the two sides rather than nasty- close minded fights. 

I have been a liberal democrat since I was a young woman - and I will always be a liberal democrat - it is what I believe - and the way I think people should treat each other. I believe that women should have the right to decide for themselves what happens to themselves - and I I know that you and others on the right should also have the right to believe what you believe and make these decisions about your own selves without me forcing you to meet MY beliefs. I am not suggesting that anyone who doesn't for religious, or personal reasons believe in abortion or womens rights should be forced to do those things or believe those things. I do believe however that it works both ways- I should be free to choose how I want to live. It seems so obvious to me and I find it hard to see why people who believe like I do should be forced to accept something that we don't believe in , when it doesn't work the other way around. I can't believe we are really talking - 
instead of fighting -- Designer


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > As you know, I am a Canadian -- and many people ask me what the difference is between America and Canada -- PLEASE take a few minutes to watch this video by Michael Moore. I am aware that he is not that popular to those who are Conservatives- But I give you my word, none of this is untrue every bit of it is true. A lot of you have gotten to know me and know that I am not a liar, I am not pushing my feelings and I have tried to have conversations -- I have lived in Canada, ALL MY LIFE - and I really would ask that you watch this. Maybe
> ...


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## Aud36 (Aug 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People who do the right thing regarding taking care of themselves need help. (In the UK, people who smoke and don't take care of themselves do not get the same level of care as people who do. I am told that by a UK citizen).
> 
> I have worked really hard for my health care. And I take care of myself.


lI don't know who told you that but that is (and I do not apologise for the word I'm going to use) BULLSHIT get your facts right about British Health care before you spout off on here. As a retired nurse I know this to absolutely true every one regardless of race, religion, colour and ethnicty smoker drinker or drug addict all get the same care without having to produce a credit card or proof of Insurance as do US visitors to the UK pity its not the same in reverse


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Aud36 said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > People who do the right thing regarding taking care of themselves need help. (In the UK, people who smoke and don't take care of themselves do not get the same level of care as people who do. I am told that by a UK citizen).
> ...


Aud36
Hallelujah. Spouting off about something some know absolutely nothing about has become their mainstay. And it is amazing what they concoct just to write something.


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## Zelana (May 5, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> People who do the right thing regarding taking care of themselves need help. *(In the UK, people who smoke and don't take care of themselves do not get the same level of care as people who do.* I am told that by a UK citizen).
> 
> I have worked really hard for my health care. And I take care of myself.


Cobblers!!! As Aud36 has already said that is completely untrue. Everyone is entitled to the same level of care under the NHS.

My local hospital has an area set aside for smokers near the main entrance and it's used by people who are quite obviously in-patients.

Maybe the lack of care you refer to is because the patients aren't allowed to smoke inside the hospital!!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Surely there are much better videos out there that portray Canada as the wonderful country it is."
> 
> You are likely quite right - I had not seen it before and it did express to me how we feel up here in my opinion. So many people have asked me how Canadians feel about the things that are being discussed --it expressed my feelings quite well. It also expressed how the Canadians I know,feel. I am sure there are others who feel very differently. I am one person.
> 
> ...


Designer, see we can discuss out in the open. Thank you.

I do understand what you were trying to portray. I just can't stand Michael Moore, mostly from his other videos. I'll admit that I am closed minded toward him.

I am not a true conservative. I am actually a registered independent, that does lean more right than left. Especially in matters of the economy. I am pro-choice, always have been. I am also pro same sex marriages. My way of thinking is that your heart can't help who it falls in love with, therefore why limit it to one sex. I have gay friends and friends of mine have lesbian children. I also feel that those people in long term same sex relationships should be able to benefit from this as heterosexual couples do. Most importantly with regards to health issues and the wishes of the party that is ill. The other partner should be the one to make the decisions as they are the one that knows their partner best. I also think that same sex couples and transgender couples should be able to adopt or nurture foster children,there are not facts to support that they would do a worse job of raising a child.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Isn't it amazing what we learn about each other when we decide not to close our minds or fight about it! I wonder through all the pages on this forum whether any one else realizes that we do have some common ground -- I have been trying to start up a CONVERSATION since I came here many weeks ago--and here we are-- I have had private discussions with other members of this forum and have found out that there are places where we will always disagree and places where we do agree - nothing is black and white. There are people on both sides who prefer to attack-- and to me we don't get anywhere that way. 

You have the right to your opinion about Michael Moore and I have my right to my opinion. it is soooo simple if people just talk to each other. Wouldn't it be great if the Politicians would or could do this?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> it is soooo simple if people just talk to each other. Wouldn't it be great if the Politicians would or could do this?


It certainly would. We just have to vote out the ones that don't/won't and vote in those that will. After all, they are supposed to work for us.


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway, it is alright to disagree. When I post to this group, I don't try to give lengthy explanations. It should not be assumed that a person buying 25 homes would, or could live in all of them. I did live in 12 different homes before I graduated from high school. I always say that this is why I have no problem in investing in Real Estate and then selling quickly. I have never been attached to any of it.

The Obama years have been very good to this American. Actually, the best investing years of my life. The year that he offered the "Cash for Clunkers" I bought 3 cars. One for my husband, my sister and myself. Paid cash for all three and got great discounts. 

The home for-closures have also been a bonanza. Bought 6 homes since 2010. Also paid cash for each and sold them for twice what I paid. These are the "golden year" for me and my husband.

Sorry to hear that you are having medical problems. Good health is more valuable than money. But don't blame Obama. He has been one of the best Presidents of my time (I'm 61), and I believe that he has done the best job humanely possible, considering the mess that he inherited. 

No intent to change your mind, just to let you know that at least one American has prospered during him administration.

Good luck to you!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Uyvonne

May I add that many People prospered during the Obama Administration. 
And yes, many suffered but is no fault of the President. That is because of ever growing greed by a few.

To get back on our feet as a Nation we need to bring manufacturing back so that everyone has a chance for a job and a decent paying one at that.
Other Countries are doing it already and have great success with it. Of course they did not dismantle all of the Industries
in which they outsourced and now have a much easier time to step back into production. Other Countries are always planning long-term and that keeps them safe. But still, we are hard working People and given a chance produce quality Wares once again.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not feel that we have prospered under Obama presidency. Our country has become divided, the government is divided; Obama has caused division - he's not able to pull people together. The economy continues in bad shape. I heard on the news last night that they expect the economy to get even worse in 2013. 

How can you say people have done well? I do not think so.
People with money are trying to hold their own, too.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

luke lucy -- do you mean that everything happening now is Obama's fault? what about the MESS he inherited from the Bush presidency -- what about the billions of dollars the war he inherited from Bush -- if that 4 billion dollars I am not sure of the exact number of billions the war cost so no need to correct me -- it was huge amounts of monehy-had been available to put into the economy, the story would likely have been very different,\. You blame EVERYTHING on President Obama -show me any human being with the situation he was in who could have solved the problems that he inherited from the previous administration. Members of the Conservatives often quoted the fact that they would do anything and everything to get rid of him. He had no help to solve the problems from those on the right -they put roadblocks in front of him on everything he tried to do. They hated that he was President -- in my opinion he inherited such a mess that it will take years for ANY administration to get back to a viable economy. On top of that the whole world is in a recession -- is he responsible for the economical mess in Europe ? Do you honestly think the Romney is a smarter or more viable President? He is so rich he doesn't know what it is like to be an Average American. These are my opinions but I really would like to hear your well thought out answers to these questions , not the usual - it is all Obama's fault without stating why you think it is all Obama's fault. We are somehow managing to have a discussion here finally without anger and hopefully by answering honest questions. Designer


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

but JM - this is the same all over the world right now - including Canada and European countries -- the world is on the verge of a depression or certainly a recession. This is happening to our savings too- not just yours. We have to ride it through like they did with the last recession -- stick together, work together and turn it around. It is not going to happen easily, and it is going to take a lot of time. It won't happen if people don't care enough about their country to pull together.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

No, I do not mean it is his fault. But, he has made things worse. He's not the man for the job.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, there are roadblocks because Obama is incapable of working as a team with the rest of the gov't. He should have brought it together. Instead, he drove people apart.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Why is everyone so upset that Romney is rich. JFK was rich and everyone loved him. People resent Romney's wealth because people are having financial difficulty. I do not hold his wealth against him. As a matter of fact, he had the brains to pull it together. Like what our country needs. I do not think he is the end all and be all. He is lacking, but anyone is better than Obama.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

is it possible he has made things worse because of the debt and because the Republicans did absolutely nothing to help him with the mess and at the same time did everything they could to make sure he would not succeed? YOu are still making flat statements-- what should he have done that he didn't do and how could he have done it with the economy and war such a mess and with out some help at least from half the Government members who did nothing but stop him from accomplishing what he wanted to accomplish.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> Janeway, it is alright to disagree. When I post to this group, I don't try to give lengthy explanations. It should not be assumed that a person buying 25 homes would, or could live in all of them. I did live in 12 different homes before I graduated from high school. I always say that this is why I have no problem in investing in Real Estate and then selling quickly. I have never been attached to any of it.
> 
> The Obama years have been very good to this American. Actually, the best investing years of my life. The year that he offered the "Cash for Clunkers" I bought 3 cars. One for my husband, my sister and myself. Paid cash for all three and got great discounts.
> 
> ...


Uyvonne,

I am happy for you that your financial position was such that you could pay cash for three new cars, as well as purchase six homes off the backs of six other people who were foreclosed upon. That you were then able to flip those six homes and double your money is just what can happen if one is in the right place at the right time. Good for you!!! (I am not being sarcastic.)

You have profited because of the dire economic situation in America, not because of Obama doing "the best job..."


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't know what went wrong behind closed doors, but it is not all one sided. Obama is not all right and the Republicans are not all right. I do not belong to a party. I just have never seen such dissention ever in the government or between people. 

We need a clean slate. Then get rid of Romney if he does not do the job. Obama is not pulling things together. And if the news is correct, next year is going to be worse economically.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

is it possible that there was no way the Right would work with him - that he didn't drive people apart - people wanted him out and didn't plan on doing anything to help him They were already apart - they were angry that he won - they were horrified that he won and in no way would they help him. - in fact they hoped he would fail and so tried to make sure he wouldn't accomplish what he hoped. You are still making flat statements but you aren't answering my questions in my previous post?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Garden Girl - right on.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

thanks for finally stating your reasons for feeling like you do - that is the first time you have done that - and not a flat statement. I don't agree but at least I know why you think as you do.


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## DonnieK (Nov 23, 2011)

I hope this works. Trying to post a copy of a letter I received. Please don't shoot the messenger! Beginning quote:

"This is from Raleigh White IV, whose great (times four) grandfather started Scott & White Hospital in Temple, Texas.



I was sitting at my keyboard halfway through my writing a letter to you about how Barack Obama was fulfilling his pledge to "Transform America" by "Changing the fundamentals of America ", so that our government would become the plantation, he the owner, and we the slaves, when this article by Steve McCann appeared in my in box. After checking it for accuracy, and finding it so, I put my writing on hold and here present it to you, for I could not say it better.

"Is it already too late? Obama's Second Term Transformation Plans"

The 2012 election has often been described as the most pivotal since 1860. This statement is not hyperbole. If Barack Obama is re-elected the United States will never be the same, nor will it be able to re-capture its once lofty status as the most dominant nation in the history of mankind. The overwhelming majority of Americans do not understand that Obama's first term was dedicated to putting in place executive power to enable him and the administration to fulfill the campaign promise of "transforming America" in his second term regardless of which political party controls Congress. That is why his re-election team is virtually ignoring the plight of incumbent or prospective Democrat Party office holders.

The most significant accomplishment of Obama's first term is to make Congress irrelevant. Under the myopic and blindly loyal leadership of Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi, the Democrats have succeeded in creating an imperial and, in a second term, a potential dictatorial presidency.

During the first two years of the Obama administration when the Democrats overwhelmingly controlled both Houses of Congress and the media was in an Obama-worshipping stupor, a myriad of laws were passed and actions taken which transferred virtually unlimited power to the executive branch.

The birth of multi-thousand page laws was not an aberration. This tactic was adopted so the bureaucracy controlled by Obama appointees would have sole discretion in interpreting vaguely written laws and enforcing thousands of pages of regulations they and not Congress would subsequently write.

For example, in the 2,700 pages of ObamaCare there are more than 2,500 references to the Secretary of Health and Human Services. There are more than 700 instances when he or she is instructed that they "shall" do something and more than 200 times when they "may" take at their sole discretion some form of regulatory action. On 139 occasions, the law
mentions that the "Secretary determines." In essence one person, appointed by and reporting to the president, will be in charge of the health care of 310 million Americans once ObamaCare is fully operational in 2014.

The same is true in the 2,319 pages of the Dodd-Frank Financial Reform Act which confers nearly unlimited power on various agencies to control by fiat the nation's financial, banking and investment sectors. The bill also creates new agencies, such as the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, not subject to any oversight by Congress. This overall process was repeated numerous times with other legislation all with the intent of granting unfettered power to the executive branch controlled Barack Obama and his radical associates.

Additionally, the Obama administration has, through its unilaterally determined rule making and regulatory powers, created laws out of whole cloth. The Environmental Protection Agency on a near daily basis issues new regulations clearly out of their purview in order to modify and change environmental laws previously passed and to impose a radical green agenda never approved by Congress. The same is true of the Energy and Interior Departments among many others.

None of these extra-constitutional actions have been challenged by Congress. The left in America knows this usurpation of power is nearly impossible to reverse unless stopped in its early stages. 

It is clearly the mindset of this administration and its appointees that Congress is merely a nuisance and can be ignored after they were able to take full advantage of the useful idiots in the Democrat-controlled House and Senate in 2009-2010 and the Democrat Senate in the current Congress. Additionally, Barack Obama knows after his re-election a Republican-controlled House and Senate will not be able to enact any legislation to roll back the power previously granted to the Executive Branch or usurped by them. His veto will not be overridden as there will always be at least 145 Democrat members of the House or 34 in the Senate in agreement with or intimidated by an administration more than willing to use Chicago-style political tactics.

The stalemate between the Executive and Legislative Branches will inure to the benefit of Barack Obama and his fellow leftists.

The most significant power Congress has is the control of the purse-strings as all spending must be approved by them. However, once re-elected, Barack Obama, as confirmed by his willingness to do or say anything and his unscrupulous re-election tactics, would not only threaten government shutdowns but would deliberately withhold payments to those dependent on government support as a means of intimidating and forcing a Republican-controlled Congress to surrender to his demands, thus neutering their ability to control the administration through spending constraints.

Further, this administration has shown contempt for the courts by ignoring various court orders, e.g. the Gulf of Mexico oil-drilling moratorium, as well as stonewalling subpoenas and requests issued by Congress. The Eric Holder Justice Department has become the epitome of corruption as part of the most dishonest and deceitful administration in American history. Holder continues to ignore Congress by placing himself above contempt. In a second term the arrogance of Barack Obama and his minions will become more blatant as he will not have to be concerned with re-election.

Who will be there to enforce the rule of law, a Supreme Court ruling or the Constitution? No one. Barack Obama and his fellow-travelers will be unchallenged as they run roughshod over the American people.

Many Republicans and conservatives dissatisfied with the prospect of Mitt Romney as the nominee for president are instead focused on re-taking the House and Senate. That goal, while worthy and necessary, is meaningless unless Barack Obama is defeated. The nation is not dealing with a person of character and integrity but someone of single-minded purpose and overwhelming narcissism. Judging by his actions, words, and deeds during his first term, he does not intend to work with Congress either Republican or Democrat in his second term, but rather to force his radical agenda on the American people through the power he has usurped or been granted.

The governmental structure of the United States was set up by the founders in the hope that over the years only those people of high moral character and integrity would assume the reins of power. However, knowing that was not always possible, they dispersed power over three distinct and independent branches as a check on each other.

What they could not imagine is the surrender and abdication of its constitutional duty by the preeminent governmental branch, the Congress, to a chief executive devoid of any character or integrity coupled with a judiciary essentially powerless to enforce the law when the chief executive ignores them.

Conservatives, Libertarians, the Republican Party and Mitt Romney must come to grips with this moment and their historical role in denying Barack Obama and his minions their ultimate goal. All resources must be directed at that end-game and not merely controlling Congress and the various committee chairmanships.

Steve McCann

May 12, 2012

I would add but five words to those above mentioned, Conservatives, Libertarians, the Republican Party and Mitt Romney, to say "and we, the American people", must come to grips with this moment and our role in denying Barack Obama his lifelong goal of "transforming" us into his slaves working on his government plantation.

Please send this to all you can, maybe together we can save America from this threat and ourselves if we can restore HONOR, COURAGE and LOVE." (end quote)


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it. 
Obama's idea of compromise is "Give me what I want or I'm going to throw a childish temper tantrum, scream bloody murder, tell a bunch of lies and try to pretend that I know something about economics" 

Besides, the whole discussion(?)...which has degenerated in nothing but name calling and childish blather....of O'Care is moot until after the elections in November.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

denying Barack Obama his lifelong goal of "transforming" us into his slaves working on his government plantation.""

You and the writer of that garbage are really sick sick sick-- You
are really something . You are not the least bit prejudiced are you! that would not have been written if he were white. Finally, someone has shown what a racist people some of you are.

I feel a little sick to my stomach. No point in dealing with you -- I don't want to be in the same room with you.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> denying Barack Obama his lifelong goal of "transforming" us into his slaves working on his government plantation.""
> 
> You and the writer of that garbage are really sick sick sick-- You
> are really something . You are not the least bit prejudiced are you! that would not have been written if he were white. Finally, someone has shown what a racist people some of you are.
> ...


Maybe we should revisit Joe Biden's remark to an African American audience in VA. "He'll (Romney) put YA'LL back in CHAINS!!!!" Not only racist, but shamfully denigrating and pandering.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I saw it and wasn't impressed, but he isn't a racist - he has proven that over the last while - your post was and is racist. YOu know it and I know it --


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I saw it and wasn't impressed, but he isn't a racist - he has proven that over the last while - your post was and is racist. YOu know it and I know it --


I love ya, Designer, but you need to take a break, have a cup of tea and cool down. :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Yes Bydie -- I think it is time I took a break -- I am seeing Red and that isn't good for my blood pressure-- Oh well, I tried.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Also, there are roadblocks because Obama is incapable of working as a team with the rest of the gov't. He should have brought it together. Instead, he drove people apart.


Lukelucy

O really? Did not a Republican "club" decide before the President even slept in the White House, to work AGAINST 
anything and everything that he would propose? So who is divisive?
It is the all too long trying of President Obama to work with the other side that has angered many of us who are on his side.
He should have given up that effort long ago but his humanity
made him try as long as he did. He started out truly uniting all of us instead the Republicans tried their utmost to divide us.
And they call themselves Americans? Traitors they are.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > denying Barack Obama his lifelong goal of "transforming" us into his slaves working on his government plantation.""
> ...


Bydie

Biden is right, Wall Street has put too many People in Chains
and out of their Homes into the Streets.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it.
> Obama's idea of compromise is "Give me what I want or I'm going to throw a childish temper tantrum, scream bloody murder, tell a bunch of lies and try to pretend that I know something about economics"
> 
> Besides, the whole discussion(?)...which has degenerated in nothing but name calling and childish blather....of O'Care is moot until after the elections in November.


Bydie be proud of your Party.
Hurrah for Akin.
He is exposing his Party for what it really is.
He not only spoke of "legitimate Rape" but also said
"President Obama is the Enemy of the civilized World" as well as
"Federal Student Loans are a Stage 3 Cancer".
That is a Representative of the Right and a professed staunch Christian. Really? Who taught him Religion?

And this clown is on some Science Gremium? Say what?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

DonnieK said:


> I hope this works. Trying to post a copy of a letter I received. Please don't shoot the messenger! Beginning quote:
> 
> "This is from Raleigh White IV, whose great (times four) grandfather started Scott & White Hospital in Temple, Texas.
> 
> ...


Finally the Racism coming from the Right is seeing daylight.
Have known it all along but too many of us have been too
careful to call it such.
Digusting coming from the evangelical Right. 
That is the Christianity I have called into question and do so again. Hatred has no room in Faith as I have been taught.
Preaching must be very different today than it was when I attended Church. I left organized Religion. I found the Air
in a room full of bigots very unhealthy.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it.
> ...


Akin is an idiot. Shall I start making a list of idiots in the Democrat Party. It could get mighty long.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Bydie

For sure, there is no shortage of Crazies but this one really
is at the top.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it.
> ...


Oi weh, oi weh.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Oi weh, oi weh>
Cop out! For when there's no intelligent response.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I heard a good one from Rush Limbaugh today.
> "If they are mad at you, You are winning,"
> 
> There seems to be many on this forum mad at us, calling us names giving senseless responses. So we must be winning.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Oi weh, oi weh>
> Cop out! For when there's no intelligent response.


Oi weh.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I heard a good one from Rush Limbaugh today.
> ...


Sure.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> Janeway, it is alright to disagree. When I post to this group, I don't try to give lengthy explanations. It should not be assumed that a person buying 25 homes would, or could live in all of them. I did live in 12 different homes before I graduated from high school. I always say that this is why I have no problem in investing in Real Estate and then selling quickly. I have never been attached to any of it.
> 
> The Obama years have been very good to this American. Actually, the best investing years of my life. The year that he offered the "Cash for Clunkers" I bought 3 cars. One for my husband, my sister and myself. Paid cash for all three and got great discounts.
> 
> ...


You sent this to me in a private message and I responded "did you really think I would believe what you wrote." Yes, this time your picture appeared. Enough said.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Bydie said:


> I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it.
> Obama's idea of compromise is "Give me what I want or I'm going to throw a childish temper tantrum, scream bloody murder, tell a bunch of lies and try to pretend that I know something about economics"
> 
> Besides, the whole discussion(?)...which has degenerated in nothing but name calling and childish blather....of O'Care is moot until after the elections in November.


You go girl get them with the facts not just some garbage that people write and expect us to believe. Most don't know how to handle REAL FACTS!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Also, there are roadblocks because Obama is incapable of working as a team with the rest of the gov't. He should have brought it together. Instead, he drove people apart.
> ...


Oh, I just gotta get into this one. You have to be Black!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > denying Barack Obama his lifelong goal of "transforming" us into his slaves working on his government plantation.""
> ...


I am getting lost with this discussion as it seems you make one statement then switch. Clear my head please. Which party are you for?


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> DonnieK said:
> 
> 
> > I hope this works. Trying to post a copy of a letter I received. Please don't shoot the messenger! Beginning quote:
> ...


Ingried,

Here you go again! You are drawing conclusions where no evidence has been given.

Where do you see anything in the letter about the "evangelical Right"? 
Where is there a reference to "Christianity"? 
Where is there a mention of "Faith"? 
Where does the author write of "preaching," "Church," or 
"organized Religion"?

Maybe you do know something of religious bigotry, after all.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

uyvonne, you should read this for facts. JW



Ingried said:


> DonnieK said:
> 
> 
> > I hope this works. Trying to post a copy of a letter I received. Please don't shoot the messenger! Beginning quote:
> ...


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm weary of the blame being placed on Republicans for "lack of compromise", "stonewalling", "Party of NO", etc., especially when there are over 30 Republican sponsored jobs/economic bills sitting dead in the water in Harry Reid's Democrat majority Senate. Let's take, just as an example, the Obama backed bi-partisan Simpson-Bowles proposal. It was defeated in the DEMOCRAT Senate by a vote of 53-46. It was defeated in the House by a vote of 382-38. PLEASE NOTE the breakdown of the House by party affiliation: Republicans 287, Democrats 247, Independents 2. I'll let you do the math to figure out how many Dems voted against it.
> ...


Ingried,

Please explain how your reference to Akin has even one thing to do with Bydie's post.

Have you a comment on the over 30 Republican sponsored bills Reid refuses to bring to a vote?

Do you have a comment about what Bydie wrote about the Simpson-Bowles proposal as mentioned above?

It is easy to understand your attempt to divert attention from one topic when your brilliant mind draws a blank, but in all fairness, you should have mentioned the overwhelming condemnation that Mr. Akin received from all across the Republican Party, from Mitt Romney on down.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I saw it and wasn't impressed, but he isn't a racist - he has proven that over the last while - your post was and is racist. YOu know it and I know it --


If one is racist, then for sure they BOTH are, if your standard is their references to "slaves" or "chains."

I would suggest the possibility that those references were deliberately used for 'effect'--to get attention or incite the reader/listener, but NOT necessarily evidence of either man being a racist.

The significant difference is this: one man is a private citizen unencumbered by public responsibilities, while the other is the Vice President of the US running for re-election.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Designer1234 said:
> 
> 
> > I saw it and wasn't impressed, but he isn't a racist - he has proven that over the last while - your post was and is racist. YOu know it and I know it --
> ...


----------



## katrinka (Sep 27, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I heard a good one from Rush Limbaugh today.
> "If they are mad at you, You are winning,"
> 
> There seems to be many on this forum mad at us, calling us names giving senseless responses. So we must be winning.


At least now you honestly admit that your 'facts' come from an 'entertainer' whose getting paid the big bucks to foment hatred & division & turn us against each other.
kat


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

How about this fact which does not come from any entertainer but from the US Department of Labor. Unemployment is up AGAIN by 4,000 from 368,000 to 374,000. I wonder if that could be GWB's fault?


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Bydie said:


> How about this fact which does not come from any entertainer but from the US Department of Labor. Unemployment is up AGAIN by 4,000 from 368,000 to 374,000. I wonder if that could be GWB's fault?


Oops! Math error...never was very good at that. Make that 372,000.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I'm telling you. The nightly news was very certain that we are heading into to bigger recession next year. It is frightening.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Oh really? The truth just gets to you, does it not?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I'm telling you. The nightly news was very certain that we are heading into to bigger recession next year. It is frightening.


Lukelucy
Since we are in a Global Economy much can happen without any of it being our fault directly. 
The times of any Nation being in charge are over forever.
Get used to it.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > How about this fact which does not come from any entertainer but from the US Department of Labor. Unemployment is up AGAIN by 4,000 from 368,000 to 374,000. I wonder if that could be GWB's fault?
> ...


Bydie
Madeline Albright said it right:"Bush needs to be and will be blamed forever".
He got the whole World into a mess from which all of us will suffer for decades to come.
However he soon may have Buddies if they have their way and go after Iran with another War. They are already working on increasing the War Chest. Now that is something to scream about. Take away as much as possible from the Little guys and
give it to the Rich and prepare for a n other idiotic War.
Much to worry about for sure.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I heard a good one from Rush Limbaugh today.
> "If they are mad at you, You are winning,"
> 
> There seems to be many on this forum mad at us, calling us names giving senseless responses. So we must be winning.


Sure.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

They don't give anything to the rich. The rich WORK for it. (Yes, there are some spoiled people who have been given to). I learned that a lot of "poor" people work very hard to get where they are. They take risks. 

Yes, another war I bet. But Obama will not get into it until he is reelected. He is just biding his time.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They don't give anything to the rich. The rich WORK for it. (Yes, there are some spoiled people who have been given to). I learned that a lot of "poor" people work very hard to get where they are. They take risks.
> 
> Yes, another war I bet. But Obama will not get into it until he is reelected. He is just biding his time.


Over ten years of the lowest Taxes is giving plenty to the Rich while they shipped our jobs to other Countries.
Many Rich work just a little as Romney has for a generation now. Oh, I take that back, it is hard work to play 18 Holes on a regular basis and instruct your Flying Crew where to go for an other round of play in an other Country. Nice work if you can get it.
Then add to this the list of constant instructions to be given to all of the Staff is a strain as well. Delegating others can be stressful. They don't always trim the bushes very evenly or
keep raking the fallen leaves often enough and the wife just ran the Car through a puddle and it needs an other wash. Oh my,
the problems to be taken care of are endless.
And then stay on the phone as if it was glued to your ear with your Investement Banker to
take care of the latest "bonus" which just came in again.
Tough, tough, tough.
I do not envy these People, just want the Poor to get a bit better Life rather than being trampled on more and more.
When Potatoes cost 99c a pound, that is something to worry about. But then this fact pybasses the Wealthy, they do not eat Potatoes, Lobster and Filet Mignon is on their Plates, Potatoes are for Peasants.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Obama is wealthy too. Why don't you talk about him and his money?


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama is wealthy too. Why don't you talk about him and his money?


You are right, he is and says that he does NOT need any more Tax breaks. You see, he cares.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I repeat, Romney worked for his money. Money does not come easy. I don't understand why you resent it. Everyone in this country has the right to make as much money as they can and want. So, Romney is successful. Great for him. That shows he has brains. I do not resent him one single bit. He has a right to play golf. He is working very hard right now. That work ethic does not come out of the blue. 

JFK had money...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama cares. Yes he does. He cares about being reelected.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Also, the rich pay the most in taxes. The very poor do not pay taxes at all. It is a falacy to think the rich do not pay less tax. Wrong info. 

As I have said in the past. Yes, there are tax breaks for the rich. AND the poor have tax breaks too. Let's take all the tax breaks away from everyone. Fair is fair. 

Our country will be ruined if Obama remains.


----------



## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Madeline Albright said it right:"Bush needs to be and will be blamed forever">

Well! That does it for me! If Madeline says it, it's just got to be Scripture, right? :O)


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Obama is wealthy too. Why don't you talk about him and his money?
> ...


Cares about what? I don't understand you. You say you are your brother's keeper but don't love the rich only the poor. Aren't we suppose to lookout for all mankind. You sound like a very greedy and jealous person.
Why should you hate a person that gets up everyday and goes to work. Is that not an honorable thing to do? If people didn't own a business there would be no one to hire the people without. Doesn't make good sense to me. I don't want anything that my neighbor or family or friend has worked hard for. I am proud when someone does good no matter how much they make. I would never want to steal from them just because I didn't have what they have. You do know that Robinhood is just a story don't you?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama cares. Yes he does. He cares about being reelected.


Right on! He will say anything like he did before. He broke all his promises. What has he gotten done ? More taxes, more taxes, more debit! He really cares about giving everyones money away.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Madeline Albright said it right:"Bush needs to be and will be blamed forever">
> 
> Well! That does it for me! If Madeline says it, it's just got to be Scripture, right? :O)


Scripture is mostly fiction, Madeline Albright is fact.
Over 5,000 Dead in idiotic Wars will attest to Bush's misdeeds
for Eternity and let us not forget these Fallen Heroes ever.
Thank goodness we have Military Cemeteries who will never be erased by High Rises as has happened to civil Cemeteries in
"valuable" areas. Eminent domain does not even let the Dead rest in Peace. And we are a Christian Nation?
The poor Christians sure have been getting the shaft even after
death.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Obama cares. Yes he does. He cares about being reelected.
> ...


Yikes,
less, Taxes, less Taxes, less Taxes are fact.
What are you reading may I ask?

Re-read what you wrote. Makes no sense.

Sure President Obama wants to be re-elected. Bush wanted it so badly that he stole to get a 2nd term. Nice guy.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <Madeline Albright said it right:"Bush needs to be and will be blamed forever">
> ...


Oi Vey! Oi Vey!


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Country Bumpkins, 
Great reply. I only hear jealousy when Romney's wealth is talked about. "Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor's goods" - if you want to talk religion (and I don'l like talking religion).

Some people don't understand that the poor don't supply jobs. The rich do in all manner of ways. 

Obama will turn this country into a socialistic state.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bush did not steal a second term. Oiy Weh (I know it is spelled wrong).


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried all the hundreds of pages of your writings this is what I see. ljfjkakk" hate " lalaka greed kdlaajkl "hate God" aklajk;; "give me" lajkalj. Sorry but that is all I see that you have written. Nonsense! Left out jealous , jealous, jealous! :thumbdown:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Bush won! . He served the office. That is just fact! He didn't count the votes. Citizens counted the votes. One by one. Your party just couldn't accept it.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried all the hundreds of pages of your writings this is what I see. ljfjkakk hate lalaka greed kdlaajkl hate God aklajk;; give me lajkalj. Sorry but that is all I see that you have written. Nonsense!


You may need glasses or get new ones.
YES I hate Greed. It deprived many of my Fellow Americans of Jobs, Home and Food.
NEVER did I say I hate God. I have plenty of questions about him.
I question many "Christians" because of their non-caring ways.

One of your antagonists said that in other words, if it ruffles your Feathers, it is right. So I must be not just right but very right because your Feathers have been standing on end.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried all the hundreds of pages of your writings this is what I see. ljfjkakk hate lalaka greed kdlaajkl hate God aklajk;; give me lajkalj. Sorry but that is all I see that you have written. Nonsense!
> ...


No I am not saying you hate greed I say you are the Greedy one. Wanting what everyone works for . You want free, free,free from the sweat from others back. I have no feathers as I am not a bird. I can just see you for what you are.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<<Over 5,000 Dead in idiotic Wars will attest to Bush's misdeeds>

The Iraqis are enjoying a measure of freedom. 2,998 military have been killed in Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan with no progress toward freedom...by your definition "an idiotic war". What is Obama doing about that? 
BTW, all wars are idiotic. Unfortunately there are evil men (and women....DW-Schultz) in the world who would deny us our God given rights of freedom and choice.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Country Bumpkins

I may have paid more Taxes than money you earned.
NEVER have gotten anything free and thankful to never had to.
Never made any debt I could not extinguish immediately if called for, ALWAYS worked and not just 8 hours/day but
for years 6 days a week and took no vacation for 12 years
to make Life easier for someone-else. Match that.
I am thankful to always have had a job and good Health
and never chucked any responsibility. 

Your assumptions are revealing yourself.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Country Bumpkins
> 
> I may have paid more Taxes than money you earned.
> NEVER have gotten anything free and thankful to never had to.
> ...


Well I am proud for you! Praise God. But you are always talking about what the rich need to give to others. So it comes across as greed , jealous and hate to me. Not fair to give away what people work hard for. I guess if someone took from your hard work if would be fair?


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <<Over 5,000 Dead in idiotic Wars will attest to Bush's misdeeds>
> 
> The Iraqis are enjoying a measure of freedom. 2,998 military have been killed in Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan with no progress toward freedom...by your definition "an idiotic war". What is Obama doing about that?
> BTW, all wars are idiotic. Unfortunately there are evil men (and women....DW-Schultz) in the world who would deny us our God given rights of freedom and choice.


Over 100,000 Iraqies are dead. That is Freedom and Democracy for the Dead? Please, get real.
President Obama ended that Fiasco and is getting us out of Afghanistan as well - very much to the dismay of the Republicans. 
Bush got us into the longest War this Country has ever been involved in. A shameful history.
I know your Life has been pretty good because of it being 
connected to the Military but should the Military be used for ill gains or the security of OUR Country? Which is it?
We would have been much better off to use the Military to keep our Borders secure rather than looking for cheap Oil as Bush/Cheney had in mind when jockying into Iraq.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Everyone hates greed. People who have money are not greedy. There is a BIG difference. What I hear from you, Ingried is sheer jealousy. It oozes out of your writing. 

Introspection needed greed does not equal rich.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Everyone hates greed. People who have money are not greedy. There is a BIG difference. What I hear from you, Ingried is sheer jealousy. It oozes out of your writing.
> 
> Introspection needed greed does not equal rich.


Ingried and jealous of wealth? If I would reveal how I have dealt with money, you would be jealous not to have been the recipient of some of it.
My needs are very basic. A Roof over my Head, good Health Care, a Table to put my feet under and food to sustain myself,
a Bed to sleep in and time to take care of others.
I came into this World naked and leave in the same manner.
Death Shrouds have no pockets to take anything with us.
My needs are met adequately.
BUT I feel some repsonsibility for others who cannot take care of themselves. Why does Romney need multiple Mansions when others do not even have one Room for Shelter?
Why does he want to make those of us who still are comfortable poor and poorer? Why did Romney hide much of his Wealth abroad? If that is not greed, what is it?
That is the greed I will always fight against.
I that is acceptable to you, I pitty you.

Unfortunately becoming rich in whichever manner most of the time leads to greed. ALL of the rich I know personally have become greedy. That is not how they see it but that is how it is.

How much I have always wished that everyone would be well of. It would have taken a load off of my shoulders.
I liked it so much better when everyone could land a job, works his/her way up, higher education was more affordable and to own a Home was in the picture - losing it just about never.
So what has changed and whose fault is it? John/Jane Doe
have always pulled their weight when given a chance. 
Americans are very hard working People but "upper Management" became greedy and John/Jane Doe had to be
let go; their pay was infringing on the Multi-Million Dollar bonuses. A no no of course. 
I know, you are squirming for an answer to this dilemma.
Tough to erase reality. It is what it is.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Obama is wealthy too. Why don't you talk about him and his money?


Oh, yes, why should I worry about how Romney spends HIS money or how Obama spends MY money!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Greed is not wealth. I am a simple person too, Ingried. But, there are many people who expect to be taken care of by the government (I have met too many) and I don't think anyone should take care of people who make no attempt to try to take care of themselves. There are tons of people out there like that.

Plus, the system that is "socialistic" i.e. taking care of people produce MORE people who say, hey, they can take care of me.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Well, in my time, people who were from ARKANSAS were tough as nails because they work very hard for very little income and manage to live very well -- will kill you in a heart beat, but be the VERY best friend you will ever have in this world.

JW

:thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Great point. He sure knows how to spend - increased budget by 40%.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I wish I knew them!


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Greed is not wealth. I am a simple person too, Ingried. But, there are many people who expect to be taken care of by the government (I have met too many) and I don't think anyone should take care of people who make no attempt to try to take care of themselves. There are tons of people out there like that.
> 
> Plus, the system that is "socialistic" i.e. taking care of people produce MORE people who say, hey, they can take care of me.


Lukelucy

Sure wonder where you live and whom you hang around with.
Socialism is always part of any developed Society.
It is taught in the Bible.
How convenient to forget such important scripture when one is asked to do one's share of caring and does not give a hoot.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Relligions is separate from state. I can take care of people. Ingried, I do not agree with you. There are different levels of "socialism" or being taken care of. We are going to far that way. 

It is not the government's place to take care of people. People should take care of people. I think we have lost that in this country. It scares me.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Janeway we are tough as nails for sure and will work for our living plus help our neighbors. But I don't know about that killing part. lol We do take our 2nd amendment serious. I love people so I am alot of peoples best friend. I take it as a compliment. Thanks.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesnt run on greed? You think Russia doesnt run on greed? You think China doesnt run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, its only the other fellow whos greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system. 
&#8213; Milton Friedman


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Sorry about the "killing" part but years ago, that was the trend especially if you were caught stealing. This was told to me my my grandfather. I don't know where he got this information.

Yes, I meant my quote to be a compliment for Arkansaser's (if there is such a word) as the ones I have met are absolutely wonderful people. This is from Janeway not Lucklucy!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > Janeway said:
> ...


I saw that Janeway and tried to edit but didn
t work. Thanks for the compliment! Janeway not Lukelucky.  Sorry Lukelucy. Didn't mean to miss spell your name.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Relligions is separate from state. I can take care of people. Ingried, I do not agree with you. There are different levels of "socialism" or being taken care of. We are going to far that way.
> 
> It is not the government's place to take care of people. People should take care of people. I think we have lost that in this country. It scares me.


Do you live in a town of one or a real Town with all its
People and their honest woes? Reality seems to escape you
over and over again. You seem to be totally isolated from
the real World.

You drive on paved Roads or Country Mudd?
If it is Roads, you are using something that was made with social programs.
You have SS? It is a Social Program.
You have Medicare? It is a social Program.
You went to School? It is a Social Program.
You call the Police when in need? it is a Social Program.
Get the drift? 
Wake up and smell the Roses and quit sitting on the Thorns.
Ouch.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


Oh, just love her new name of LUKELUCKY! Good one! Gotta go to doctors office for new medicine as laugh so much that heart skipping a beat or two, but if I die, it will be from laughing so hard about this thread.

I'll leave for a while, but do keep on writing as will read it tonight. Love to all of you. Jane


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

CarolfromTX,
You are so right. Anything that has anything to do with the government comes to a screeching bureaucratic halt. Creativity comes from free pursuit.

It scares me that people don't realize that. Free enterprise is the way. Keep government out of it.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well first of all, tell me: Is there some society you know that doesnt run on greed? You think Russia doesnt run on greed? You think China doesnt run on greed? What is greed? Of course, none of us are greedy, its only the other fellow whos greedy. The world runs on individuals pursuing their separate interests. The great achievements of civilization have not come from government bureaus. Einstein didnt construct his theory under order from a bureaucrat. Henry Ford didnt revolutionize the automobile industry that way. In the only cases in which the masses have escaped from the kind of grinding poverty youre talking about, the only cases in recorded history, are where they have had capitalism and largely free trade. If you want to know where the masses are worse off, worst off, its exactly in the kinds of societies that depart from that. So that the record of history is absolutely crystal clear, that there is no alternative way so far discovered of improving the lot of the ordinary people that can hold a candle to the productive activities that are unleashed by the free-enterprise system.
> ― Milton Friedman


Agreed! But some people don't understand this because they get their info from cartoons or left sided talk show host. Not the real world. Just fantasyland of lies. Not facts.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> is it possible that there was no way the Right would work with him - that he didn't drive people apart - people wanted him out and didn't plan on doing anything to help him They were already apart - they were angry that he won - they were horrified that he won and in no way would they help him. - in fact they hoped he would fail and so tried to make sure he wouldn't accomplish what he hoped. You are still making flat statements but you aren't answering my questions in my previous post?


I see your comments as making flat statements here. Most of the statements about the right not working with Obama came from the media. The media started the whole nonsense about the republicans not agreeing with the president's policies, that they are racist, they hate him because he is black. They are the ones that kept repeating these statements over and over, until they became accepted. The republicans have offered solutions, but were blocked by Pelosi and Reid time and time again. Reid has said may times when speaking to reporters at the Senate, that he wouldn't be bringing up (name the bill and sponsor here) for a discussion or a vote. Reid has the power to do this, but at what cost? Why not bring the House passed bill up for discussion in the Senate? What is he so afraid of that something might actually be a solution? In my opinion, this is hardly a mature manner in which to lead.

I do agree with Lukelucy about the Obama Administration dividing the country. It's the whole administration, not just the president. He can put a stop to this anytime he wants, but he just lets things go on. I can only conclude that this is what he wants - division.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > They don't give anything to the rich. The rich WORK for it. (Yes, there are some spoiled people who have been given to). I learned that a lot of "poor" people work very hard to get where they are. They take risks.
> ...


Oh please, now who is making flat statements. You definitely envy the rich, the envy just oozes through your words.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


Just priced Cherries, something all of us used to be able to afford.

No longer. They are $ 4.99 per pound. Cheapest Apples $ 1.99/lb. Lettuce $ 1.29 per head.
Watermelons $ 4.99. I guess it will be Beans
again. Health Food has become too expensive to buy and so it goes.
Forget Cheese altogether. What used to be $ 3.00/lb. is now over $ 11.00/lb. If only our Income had climbed in proportion.
Milk has tripled, well I guess Soda it is since that often is on Sale.
Tomatoes too expensive and ours did not do well at all do to the lack of Rain.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

So who is to blame for the price increase?
Part of it MIGHT be premature increases from the drought. Increases are coming next year; maybe they are early.

The recession is causing the increases. That is what is going on. And who is not getting us out of the recession? Maybe things ARE getting worse. 

This is just the beginning of prices going up. This was expected a couple of years ago.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Price increases from the drought should hit next year. It takes time to process the crops which should be being picked now. We are still eating prior stock. However, it is possible that some people are taking advantage now. 

Next year will be worse because the drought will have its major effect at that time. It is too early now.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<We would have been much better off to use the Military to keep our Borders secure> Obama will not allow that. It would disturb one of his voting blocks.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<No longer. They are $ 4.99 per pound. Cheapest Apples $ 1.99/lb. Lettuce $ 1.29 per head.
Watermelons $ 4.99. I guess it will be Beans
again. Health Food has become too expensive to buy and so it goes.
Forget Cheese altogether. What used to be $ 3.00/lb. is now over $ 11.00/lb. If only our Income had climbed in proportion.
Milk has tripled, well I guess Soda it is since that often is on Sale.>

You can thank Obama for this. Four words....or 5 if you're Joe Biden. GAS PRICES - KEYSTONE PIPELINE


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

<Over 100,000 Iraqies are dead. That is Freedom and Democracy for the Dead? Please, get real.
President Obama ended that Fiasco and is getting us out of Afghanistan as well - very much to the dismay of the Republicans. Bush got us into the longest War this Country has ever been involved in>

Very old, tired, wornout and overused Left Wing, Liberal talking points.

Let's talk:

ECONOMY! ECONOMY! ECONOMY!
JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!
and ANOTHER I TRILLION in new debt run up by the Spender in Chief.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <Over 100,000 Iraqies are dead. That is Freedom and Democracy for the Dead? Please, get real.
> President Obama ended that Fiasco and is getting us out of Afghanistan as well - very much to the dismay of the Republicans. Bush got us into the longest War this Country has ever been involved in>
> 
> Very old, tired, wornout and overused Left Wing, Liberal talking points.
> ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Amen. That is the truth. Don't let the votes get away!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bush is gone. History. We are talking about today. The Navy Seals (Seal Team 6), say Obama had nothing to do with Bin Landen. I'd love to give credit to Obama for getting out of the war, but I don't trust what he'll do next.


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## Bydie (Dec 2, 2011)

By the same token, let's make sure Obama is haunted by the 3,000 + killed in Afghanistan, where when we leave we will have accomplished NOTHING!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Right on.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Bush is gone. History. We are talking about today. The Navy Seals (Seal Team 6), say Obama had nothing to do with Bin Landen. I'd love to give credit to Obama for getting out of the war, but I don't trust what he'll do next.


Oi weh.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Bydie said:


> <We would have been much better off to use the Military to keep our Borders secure> Obama will not allow that. It would disturb one of his voting blocks.


I'll drink to this one!

:thumbup:


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## Uyvonne (Dec 18, 2011)

Janeway, since you are so closed minded, I have no further comment. It's like talking to a lunatic or a drunk. I am not interested in wasting time with either.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <We would have been much better off to use the Military to keep our Borders secure> Obama will not allow that. It would disturb one of his voting blocks.
> ...


Just don't drink and drive.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > Bush is gone. History. We are talking about today. The Navy Seals (Seal Team 6), say Obama had nothing to do with Bin Landen. I'd love to give credit to Obama for getting out of the war, but I don't trust what he'll do next.
> ...


Back to Ingried's classic non-answer!!!


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <Oi weh, oi weh>
> ...


Bydie , you are right once again.


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > DonnieK said:
> ...


Ingried,

I did not see your response. Do you have one other than "oi weh"?


----------



## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Ingried,

Once again, I looked for a reply from you and found none. Could it be that you do not read the posts of others, or is it simply that you have no answers?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Janeway is very correct. That is what he should be doing and he IS more concerned about votes. Easy to see. Thanks Janway.


----------



## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


"compromise" 
It has been turned into a dirty word since the moment President Obama took office.
Pure hatred has taken its place.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

I would like to know just what Obama has done to hurt the American people specifically. I would also like to know what Romney would do to help the American people, specifically. How would cutting taxes for the super rich help you as a citizen? How would taxing the super rich help the middle class citizens of this country? Why is the ACA such a terrible thing for this county? What will Romney do to help the healthcare system in this country? If small government is a good thing why is women's healthcare legislated so closely? I am just having a terrible time understanding the polarization in this country.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Bydie said:
> 
> 
> > <We would have been much better off to use the Military to keep our Borders secure> Obama will not allow that. It would disturb one of his voting blocks.
> ...


Apparently you drink too much. Try AA


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


An intelligent response requires an intelligent statement, of which there was none.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Steve McCann is a right wing, conservative writer. Consider the source of your hatred. Please do not be open minded, that probably would hurt whatever litter sense you have.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Uyvonne said:


> Janeway, since you are so closed minded, I have no further comment. It's like talking to a lunatic or a drunk. I am not interested in wasting time with either.


Thanks for the compliment: But you are the closed minded one. I am not a lunatic nor am I a drunk. I do not drink alcoholic drinks. That was just a saying as I am sure you don't understand a remark made as a joke as I have not found any of your race who can identify with this world. You have reverted to name calling again!

When I worked with lots of blacks, they were the laziest but demanded the easiest work and were constantly taking time off for everything they could imagine. It was such a problem keeping them at their desks and off the phones to get any work done that when I "fired" three of them they filed a civil suit against me. They lost as I had written a log with everything they were doing. Then the rest of them started working.

The other "lady" who called me names has left the forum because she could not take the heat and it appears you cannot either. Good bye!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


Do explain how open minded you are. This certainly cannot be realized from your posts.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> soloweygirl said:
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> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Janeway said:
> 
> 
> > Bydie said:
> ...


Hello, that was a joke as apparently NONE of you got it! I just thought it was funny. I DO NOT DRINK ALCHOLIC DRINKS! But apparently the rest of you do as one person put it "I was a drunk!"

It seems no one on this thread has a sense of humor except maybe one or to -- such as the lady from Arkansas! None of you could live in her state and survive!

Gotta go but will return. JW


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


I read all the publications and I FACT CHECK everything I read. I do not blindly accept what either side says. What do you do?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Ingried said:


> Sure, lets talk about President Obama's plans to repair and expand our Infrastructure and the GOP being against any and all of it.


Yes, lets talk about his plans for our infrastructure. What exactly are they? If his plan is the same as from the stimulus, then the president admitted that the job plan did not work. What has he done to revise this? Where will the money come from now?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, lets talk about President Obama's plans to repair and expand our Infrastructure and the GOP being against any and all of it.
> ...


Do you think that the US is really broke and has no money?
Even if we have to borrow $$, interest rates are at a all time low...........we can fix infrastructure and put people back to work, however the Republicans filibuster every bill that Obama brings forth and their fix is to lower tax rates on corporations and dismantle the EPA. How does that help us? Oil spills, unclean drinking water, poor air quality. Is that what you want for yourself and children and grandchildren? Not even taking into account climate change, we know what happens when the EPA is not watching. Do you want the return of the Love Canal? Rivers burning because they are so polluted, not being able to eat the fish you catch in the river? Do you suppose corporations will police themselves? Their concern is their bottom line, not clean air, clean water, or your health.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

They don't want to cut taxes for the wealthy. Obama wants to tax them more. Having the wealthy keep there tax money helps everyone by giving the wealthy more money to hire. The poor do not hire. The wealthy or people with money hire.
Regarding health care, when the government gets involved, decisions are then made by people who know nothing about individual health. It will become bureaucratic which to me means that good decisions will come to a screeching halt. Bureaucracy tends to move slowly and laboriously.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

"I read all the publications and I FACT CHECK everything I read. I do not blindly accept what either side says. What do you do?"

So you fact checked and found Steve McCann to be a conservative. This fact doesn't make what he wrote any less true. Instead of proving the article's author wrong, you attack the poster for her - PERCEIVED BY YOU - hatred for the president. How closed minded can you be? Instead of parroting the main stream media and their "ideas" try to understand that the republicans and conservatives are against the president's POLICIES, NOT the man. This does not mean they hate blacks. It does not make one a racist because you don't agree with another person. That is just pure BS.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> "I read all the publications and I FACT CHECK everything I read. I do not blindly accept what either side says. What do you do?"
> 
> So you fact checked and found Steve McCann to be a conservative. This fact doesn't make what he wrote any less true. Instead of proving the article's author wrong, you attack the poster for her - PERCEIVED BY YOU - hatred for the president. How closed minded can you be? Instead of parroting the main stream media and their "ideas" try to understand that the republicans and conservatives are against the president's POLICIES, NOT the man. This does not mean they hate blacks. It does not make one a racist because you don't agree with another person. That is just pure BS.


Prove to me the poster likes Obama. Prove to me they are not racist. Birtherisms. Dog whistle politics. Voter suppression. Not exactlyBlack friendly


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> "I read all the publications and I FACT CHECK everything I read. I do not blindly accept what either side says. What do you do?"
> 
> So you fact checked and found Steve McCann to be a conservative. This fact doesn't make what he wrote any less true. Instead of proving the article's author wrong, you attack the poster for her - PERCEIVED BY YOU - hatred for the president. How closed minded can you be? Instead of parroting the main stream media and their "ideas" try to understand that the republicans and conservatives are against the president's POLICIES, NOT the man. This does not mean they hate blacks. It does not make one a racist because you don't agree with another person. That is just pure BS.


Amen girl! Only racist are the ones that scream racist .


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > "I read all the publications and I FACT CHECK everything I read. I do not blindly accept what either side says. What do you do?"
> ...


Pardon me, NOT TRUE. Your statement is just plain ignorant


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


OMG what garbage. We are broke. We will hit 16 trillion in debt very soon. Interest rates might be low for the money we borrow for mortgages and new cars. Are they at an all time low on the money we borrow from China, Japan, etc.? We borrow 30 cents of every dollar. The republicans and conservatives never said they wanted dirty air and water, the president did. The EPA needs to be toned down. They are regulating this country to death. The EPA has done a lot of good, I'm not denying that.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Where do you get your info. I have not heard of the Repubs messing all that up??


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


What are you denying? International rates are really low. I am not saying we should borrow, but in order to get the economy moving and money into the hands of the middle class, the ones who really get the economy moving, supply and demand. Not the rich, they do not spend. We need to get money to the middle class. Big business is sitting on trillions of $$ and not investing in this country. Do you really expect corporations to hire, when they are dong perfectly well without hiring? The Bush tax cuts haven't worked, do you think they'll work now? over 10 years and still not working.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

They are not hiring because of worry - like everyone else. If there was confidence in the government, hiring would begin.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> They are not hiring because of worry - like everyone else. If there was confidence in the government, hiring would begin.


They are not worried. Just greedy.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > soloweygirl said:
> ...


It is true. It it is a dirty little game people play to get their way. He was voted in by black and white so why would it be his race. He had his 4 yrs of trying now it is just like Bush 1 it is time to move on. We need a new start for our country and people to prosper. Not just to give, give , give and spend, spend spend. We all love our kids and grandkids. It is their future we must think about . We don't want them to go thru what our parents and grandparents did. Or even some of you when you were younger. It is not about 1 man winning it is our whole country! It is a game because it is called the race card. Even Clinton said they used the race card on him. Just political game to use rasism to get attention .


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Our economy is based on making money. If they don't make money, they loose their jobs. Is that greed. I don't think so. Plus, I know many "rich" people who are not greedy. They run companyies and do many nice things (going to help Katrina victims build their houses - hands on labor).

So you cannot say that people who make money, own companies are greedy. I think that sounds like jealousy again. Rich people are not bad people. There are bad and good in every social stratum. 

Are you envious?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


I just reread the McCann letter. Just how long did the Democrats have a filibuster proof majority in Congress?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Spending, taxing and regulating is Obama's plan. This plan is not working, it will just add billions to the debt. The middle class' income and net worth have dramatically dropped over the last 10 years. (CNN) Congress has been passing laws/regulations that have hurt the middle class. The first priority should be to get the middle class working again. Getting rid of the recent regulations would allow the businesses to hire. They are not doing so because they can't plan ahead. Businesses are holding on to their money because they are uncertain about the new laws and regulations and what effect they will have on the economy. 

Industry leaders are saying there is a shortage of skilled workers, resulting in these businesses going overseas to find the workers, hire them, and arrange for their work visas. (CNN)
There are companies in Pennsylvania that are hiring high school kids because they can't find skilled adults. Somewhere along the way, it has become taboo to be a skilled worker. The bottom line is there are jobs out there, but no employees to fill the positions.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Spending, taxing and regulating is Obama's plan. This plan is not working, it will just add billions to the debt. The middle class' income and net worth have dramatically dropped over the last 10 years. (CNN) Congress has been passing laws/regulations that have hurt the middle class. The first priority should be to get the middle class working again. Getting rid of the recent regulations would allow the businesses to hire. They are not doing so because they can't plan ahead. Businesses are holding on to their money because they are uncertain about the new laws and regulations and what effect they will have on the economy.
> 
> Industry leaders are saying there is a shortage of skilled workers, resulting in these businesses going overseas to find the workers, hire them, and arrange for their work visas. (CNN)
> There are companies in Pennsylvania that are hiring high school kids because they can't find skilled adults. Somewhere along the way, it has become taboo to be a skilled worker. The bottom line is there are jobs out there, but no employees to fill the positions.


What regulations are you talking about?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > Spending, taxing and regulating is Obama's plan. This plan is not working, it will just add billions to the debt. The middle class' income and net worth have dramatically dropped over the last 10 years. (CNN) Congress has been passing laws/regulations that have hurt the middle class. The first priority should be to get the middle class working again. Getting rid of the recent regulations would allow the businesses to hire. They are not doing so because they can't plan ahead. Businesses are holding on to their money because they are uncertain about the new laws and regulations and what effect they will have on the economy.
> ...


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

People here in the USA do not, repeat, do not want to do the hard labor that people from other countries (China) will gladly do for less money. 

Outsoucing was done by everyone. Romney is not the only one. Now, it must be stopped. 

Repeateople here do not want to do what the Chinese will do.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Country Bumpkins said:
> ...


I am really not feeling that through the Republican party. I really think their base is painfully ignorant of how they are being played. Just like Bush, prefaced everything he said with 9/11 to bring up the Fear factor. Worked every time. Now we have The Other syndrome. He's not like us, he's different, he does not understand our relationship to England, he wasn't born in this country, he's a Kenyan etc. What do you call that if not racism? Having been the recipient of racism, I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, however, I am not understanding this rhetoric.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> People here in the USA do not, repeat, do not want to do the hard labor that people from other countries (China) will gladly do for less money.
> 
> Outsoucing was done by everyone. Romney is not the only one. Now, it must be stopped.
> 
> Repeateople here do not want to do what the Chinese will do.


Lukelucy

American People are the hardest working anywhere.
Give them a chance and they will outshine anyone by a wide margin.
Of course one should expect to be paid a fair Wage.
Something that has been lacking for a long time.
But then upper Management MUST secure its outrageous bonuses.

Shame on you for putting your Fellow Americans down as lazy.

When I see Roadworkers building the Highways for me to drive on savely, enduring extraordinary Climates - hot and cold -
I salut them and they are not the only People working hard.
These are just the ones visible to us.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I am not saying all Americans are lazy. Basically, we are hard working people. I am saying some people are lazy. I am saying that those people who do not want to do the work the Chinese people are doing are working hard at other things. I did not say Americans were lazy. That comes from you mind - to say I said that.

Americans do not want to do the low level work. They want more pay.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I am not saying all Americans are lazy. Basically, we are hard working people. I am saying some people are lazy. I am saying that those people who do not want to do the work the Chinese people are doing are working hard at other things. I did not say Americans were lazy. That comes from you mind - to say I said that.
> 
> Americans do not want to do the low level work. They want more pay.


Pay a f a i r wage and all work will be done by Americans.
Everything was well taken care of until the great influx of
Immigrants. Americans were replaced in exchange for lower Wages.

Americans WILL DO ALL WORK for adequate pay.
They need adequate pay since they like to live an independent Live and not cramped into two rooms with 3 Generations.
That is the difference.
Should People not expect a decent way of Life in the Greatest Country on Earth?

Holding down two jobs has become the norm for all too many.
Three and 4 jobs is not that unusual anymore either. Sad.

Painful to hear anyone attacking our decent, less fortunate People who even share what little they have when need arises elsewhere.
Care packages are the best example of it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Ingried said:


> Lukelucy said:
> 
> 
> > I am not saying all Americans are lazy. Basically, we are hard working people. I am saying some people are lazy. I am saying that those people who do not want to do the work the Chinese people are doing are working hard at other things. I did not say Americans were lazy. That comes from you mind - to say I said that.
> ...


My guess this was why unions were first formed, to protect the American worker. Things did get out of hand on both sides/ management and workers. High pay for workers, high bonuses for management. I hope that we have all learned a lesson from this downturn. Everything in moderation. Fair wages for workers, safe working conditions, ability to put money away for retirement and healthcare. The American worker is still the best in the world. Just need the jobs to prove it.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


rocky 1991

You are so right. Initially the Unions had a place to assist Workers but as with many such Groups, they too became
too wanting. I saw in many other Countries, Unions work together with
Management and Labor and reach agreements beneficial for everyone. We need to get to that point yet.
Bad times often have a way to get everything back onto a sound basis. I am very optimistic.
American Workers are the best -no doubt about it - in the World
and they will help us to the top once again. It will take some time but we will get there. Too much has been messed up in the past decade to turn things around quickly. We have to have some patience.
Blessed be my Fellow Americans. They never fail when called upon.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


Nice of you to try to answer for Ingried, but you have not addressed my questions. I will summarize:

Nowhere in the writing offered above is there a single reference to the evangelical right , Christianity, faith, preaching, church, or organized religion which were the focus of Ingried's response.

My point is that once again, Ingried has fabricated a connection to Christianity to justify her own religious bigotry.


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## katrinka (Sep 27, 2011)

Ladies, 
Please read this; the author is not political & I'm not trying to be, either. He is a historian & this is strictly for informational purposes.
As a Jew, it scares me to death.
http://rense.com/general37/char.htm
Thanx,
kat


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

katrinka said:


> Ladies,
> Please read this; the author is not political & I'm not trying to be, either. He is a historian & this is strictly for informational purposes.
> As a Jew, it scares me to death.
> http://rense.com/general37/char.htm
> ...


Katrinka
The Writer must have experienced Life exactly as I have
otherwise he could have never been so accurate in his descriptions.
It is frightening to see so many similarities with what is going on
today. 
I however have faith in the educated Young. They reject so much of what is accepted so readily by their Elders;
at least in the rest of the World and we must insist on the best education for our Children in order to prevent the horrid past becoming their future.

I thank you for the article.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


One well read has no problems reading between the lines and "character and integrity" are just two subtle remarks
tight to Religion on a regular basis.

When it all started out by saying: "He is not a Christian" that
described the largest percentage of the others as being such. So what does that tell us?

"Character and integrity" are always assigned to those who call themselves "Christian", others could not possibly be good People in many People's minds.

I have no bigotry towards any Religion I just do not believe 
religious stories any longer.

I have a choice between Evolution and Creationism and I choose the earlier. My years in Research guide me.

I have no issue with anyone believing but have issue with
others trying to sell their believes to me and these days they are trying hard to do it through politics. I am not buying.
By the way my experience with TRUE Christians is that they are
the finest People who NEVER flaunt their Faith. I like their presence, it lends comfort.
They love, they care, they share, they are humble. Christianity
as it was taught to us as Children.


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > rocky1991 said:
> ...


Ingried,

The letter does NOT state anywhere "He is not a Christian." It makes no mention of religion at all. You claim to be "reading between the lines". Instead try reading the lines themselves.

I haven't seen any claim that "character and integrity" are the sole property of Christians. That's nonsense!

No religious bigotry? Then why do you regularly attack, insult and make demeaning remarks directed toward Christians? One could reasonably conclude there's a religious bias on your part. This is a conspicuous example. Saying you "just don't believe religious stories any longer" has nothing to do with whether you are capable of bigotry or not.

If you want to discuss your religious views, including "Evolution and Creationism" and your "years in Research," you are free to do so.

Generally speaking, when one uses the 'Quote Reply' feature here on KP there is an expectation the attached comment will relate to the quoted material. If your only purpose is to denigrate another religious viewpoint, perhaps you should consider starting a specific thread for that.


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## Ingried (Sep 23, 2011)

GardenGirl said:


> Ingried said:
> 
> 
> > GardenGirl said:
> ...


THE BILL OF RIGHTS:

"Freedom of Religion and Freedom from Religion".
Clearly we are granted a choice.

Then there is granted the "Freedom of Speech" and I
make use of that even when it comes to Religion.
I am religious just do not adhere to organized Religion.

Anyone who believes in the Constitution of the United States and its Bill of Rights needs to accept the fact that I have the right to speak out freely regardles of the subject matter.

How lucky we are to be Americans.


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## JOYCEME (Aug 26, 2012)

I am OLD, and am scared to death of obama care......Hope it is voted out.....I have read most of the bill. And I think he wants the death panel to get rid of us!


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## GardenGirl (Apr 23, 2011)

Ingried said:


> GardenGirl said:
> 
> 
> > Ingried said:
> ...


Can I make this any simpler? I will try!

1. The original post was lengthy, but had NOTHING to do with RELIGION.

2. I merely pointed out that your (Ingried's) 'reply' was ONLY ABOUT RELIGION, specifically a rant denigrating Christians.

3. You (Ingried) brought up BIGOTRY in connection to organized religion, but your repeated attacks on Christians are proof of your own religious bigotry.

4. The reminder I gave about "Quote Reply" was in response to your (Ingried's) apparent misunderstanding of this feature. Your first 'reply' was a non sequitur. (Perhaps you wanted to take part in the conversation but failed to 'listen' to what was being discussed, ie the original post?)

Never did I criticize your (Ingried's) religious beliefs or presume a lack thereof. Never did I even suggest you could not address those beliefs, in fact I wrote "you are free to do so." No need to lecture me about the Bill of Rights, etc.

I would think "one well read" could grasp these ideas. No "reading between the lines" is required.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I do not see similarities at all. Huh?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I do not see similarities at all. Huh?


Have you ever taken a critical reading class? Nothing is ever wht it first appears to be. McCann's letter is double speak if you read the letter critically and interpret it in historical context, the letter is totally about what Ingried said.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

JOYCEME said:


> I am OLD, and am scared to death of obama care......Hope it is voted out.....I have read most of the bill. And I think he wants the death panel to get rid of us!


You have read close to 2700 pages, written in lawyer speak and understand it, my total admiration to you. Many learned people have not come to your conclusion. And if they do get rid of it, you still will have Medicare, how wonderful for you, however those poor other people who will be denied coverage.........so I guess you are the one who wants Death Panels.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

M


joeysomma said:


> rocky1991 said:
> 
> 
> > Lukelucy said:
> ...


McCann has his own agenda, agree? What is his agenda? Take down Obama, right? So his writings have undertones, his happen to be racist. Go figure


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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