# Smoking and Obamacare #7



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> No single person, regardless of how well-intentioned and wealthy they may be, can take on the problems of the poor, disabled, handicapped etc. of the country. IMHO, if we claim to be a civilized nation, our government must take on these issues. Opinions?


Short answer...no. It's not the government's business.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess I'm glad you found something to amuse you on your drive. Have you ever tried audio books? I like the variety. I enjoy learning something new.



off2knit said:


> Wow Bratty, it took you 8 hours to find my response.
> 
> I just got home after an 8 hour drive, went to see my parents that are need a a monthly fulfillment of a honey do list.
> 
> I listened to the radio on the way home, and was laughing so hard that I almost went off the road. You should have heard Ed Schultz blast Obama about his budget. He about had a stroke on the air. Ranting on and on about how he has deceived and lied to the people that put him into office. Why he did not propose this budget before the election. How he is betraying the middle class and killing the seniors of this country. It made for a very interesting drive home


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree.



rocky1991 said:


> Since they are not the ones who are carrying the child I do not think it's their decision. I believe in choice for the mother.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hypothetical: Wonder if there is no afterlife for people or for other animals?



susanmos2000 said:


> Who really knows what Heaven is like? I've always been intrigued by the Muslim version of it (and any Muslims out there are free to correct me if what I've heard is wrong)--kind of like Pleasure Island in Pinocchio, where people can eat, drink, and make merry 24 hours a day with no inhibitions and no negative consequences whatsoever. Frankly I doubt that's right, but it's an interesting idea.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> So, it's ok for you to be able to judge how people should live and we have no say because we view things differently than you do?


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree but many religions thoroughly indoctrinate a sense of sin to sex. Some people never escape this teaching. Some rebel against it. Some come to see a reason for sex beyond procreation.



rocky1991 said:


> If you look at sex from a more scientific point of view, animals have sex for procreation, for the most part. I understand that dolphins can do it for fun Just look at us humans: G-d, if you like, gave us sex for procreation, as well as for enjoyment. Why were given the pleasurable aspect? The hormones, the physiology the emotional gratification. It's kind of hard to turn down, especially when you are young. I suppose I don't consider sex as a sin.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

More than 16 million children in the US are living in poverty. If people want all these babies to live, why are they opposed to programs that help families living in poverty? Why aren't they concerned about the distribution of wealth in this country? Why are they opposed to raising the minimum wage? Why are they so adamant about protecting the wealthiest among us from paying more in taxes? If they are pro-life there should be some consistency. The children who are living in poverty ought to be able to have a life, too. It really is the same , old story. Let the babies be born but forget about their living conditions.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid that patting ourselves on the back allows us to judge others who have problems. I try to avoid it unless there is a specific example.



thumper5316 said:


> They don't want to listen. And why is it bragging if we _have_ done a good job?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Liberals judge the rich all the time. Read some of the previous posts. How much they need to live on, what kind of homes they should live in and other judgemental statements. So, it's ok for the liberals but not anybody else?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm afraid that patting ourselves on the back allows us to judge others who have problems.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Liberals judge the rich all the time. Read some of the previous posts. How much they need to live on, what kind of homes they should live in and other judgemental statements. So, it's ok for the liberals but not anybody else?


Nobody's judging the rich. I just want them to pay their fair share.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does this mean I can do it because everyone else does? Never worked with my parents.



thumper5316 said:


> Liberals judge the rich all the time. Read some of the previous posts. How much they need to live on, what kind of homes they should live in and other judgemental statements. So, it's ok for the liberals but not anybody else?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I haven't completely read tonight's discussions but is the consensus that every 16 year old who gets pregnant has parents who didn't do a good job of child-rearing?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Damemary, I think everyone went to bed. . . .


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Liberals judge the rich all the time. Read some of the previous posts. How much they need to live on, what kind of homes they should live in and other judgemental statements. So, it's ok for the liberals but not anybody else?


Some liberals are quite rich, but it's certainly fair to say that the poor judge the rich and vice-versa. The difference is that the poor can't do anything to change the wealthy's lifestyle while the rich can have a devastating impact on those they judge "unworthy"--cutting food stamp program, reducing welfare payments to a bare minimum, eliminating programs like Head Start and so on.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Some liberals are quite rich, but it's certainly fair to say that the poor judge the rich and vice-versa. The difference is that the poor can't do anything to change the wealthy's lifestyle while the rich can have a devastating impact on those they judge "unworthy"--cutting food stamp program, reducing welfare payments to a bare minimum, eliminating programs like Head Start and so on.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Simple answers to complex questions. Business as usual. Wish I would see some true, non-judgemental discussion.



alcameron said:


> I haven't completely read tonight's discussions but is the consensus that every 16 year old who gets pregnant has parents who didn't do a good job of child-rearing?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

We actually had some good discussions going this morning, then everything fell apart--as usual.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, I'm going to call it a night myself. Sleep well ladies.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love this time of night. I ignore prime time TV to catch up on reading. Don't stay up past midnight and turn into a pumpkin. I have trouble getting back to sleep in the middle of the night sometimes.



alcameron said:


> Damemary, I think everyone went to bed. . . .


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Abortion, even in a hospital or clinic, is still barbaric. It's the deliberate destruction of an innocent human being. A precious human life.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Simple answers to complex questions. Business as usual. Wish I would see some true, non-judgemental discussion.


Alcameron,
Not at all. The consensus, if there was one, could have been that some children do not get good parenting and some do. Also, that those who get good parenting usually do well. And - that parenting is hard work and takes time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Alcameron,
> Not at all. The consensus, if there was one, could have been that some children do not get good parenting and some do. Also, that those who get good parenting usually do well. And - that parenting is hard work and takes time.


I'll have to go back and read all the stuff people said. I just got the idea that everyone was saying that their kids all turned out so well because they did such a good job of parenting. There are kids that come from awful parenting that make wonderful adults and there are children who had great parents who turn into irresponsible people.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A precious human life that will bear the onus of its conception if kept by the mother who was brutally raped. A precious human life with painful, life-threatening handicaps. A precious human life doomed to be raised in poverty without hope and dreams. A precious human life that will lose its mother due to complications.

I am not suggesting these are the only options, but they do exist. Do we agree that abortion (legal today) is morally justifiable in at least some circumstances?

I believe that the judgement is best left to a woman and her doctor.



bonbf3 said:


> Abortion, even in a hospital or clinic, is still barbaric. It's the deliberate destruction of an innocent human being. A precious human life.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> A precious human life that will bear the onus of its conception if kept by the mother who was brutally raped. A precious human life with painful, life-threatening handicaps. A precious human life doomed to be raised in poverty without hope and dreams. A precious human life that will lose its mother due to complications.
> 
> I am not suggesting these are the only options, but they do exist. Do we agree that abortion (legal today) is morally justifiable in at least some circumstances?
> 
> I believe that the judgement is best left to a woman and her doctor.


**********************
I don't think we have the right to take a human life because we think he or she might have a hard life. Most people with difficult circumstances would probably still choose life over death. Many people with difficult beginnings go on to have wonderful lives.

We don't have the right to murder people or even to steal their property. Even if we want to. I think it should be the same with an unborn baby. We don't have the right.

In our country, we allow abortion on demand, in some states with no restrictions whatsoever. In some cases we have devalued human life to the status of convenient/inconvenient or right sex/wrong sex. This is actually going on right now in this country - gender selection.

We are accelerating our slide down the proverbial slippery slope, getting closer and closer to the bottom, where human life will have little value at all.

Ezekiel Emanuel, a doctor and an advisor to Obama and brother of Raum Emanuel, believes that people who are not contributing to society do not have a right to life. I have read his writing which expresses that. He is in a high position, he is a physician, and you can be sure that he has his hand in the new Affordable Healthcare Plan. Sick? Old? Disabled? Unemployed? Retired? Not "contributing?"

Some day Ezekiel's bureaucrats will sit down with you and me and discuss our "end of life" plan. It won't include real "treatment."

To quote Obama, "Maybe you don't need that operation. Maybe you should just take that pill." Why fix the hip. You're half-dead already - you can spend the rest of your days in a wheel-chair. What difference does it make to you now - at this stage of your life?

It's ominous.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> More than 16 million children in the US are living in poverty. If people want all these babies to live, why are they opposed to programs that help families living in poverty? Why aren't they concerned about the distribution of wealth in this country? Why are they opposed to raising the minimum wage? Why are they so adamant about protecting the wealthiest among us from paying more in taxes? If they are pro-life there should be some consistency. The children who are living in poverty ought to be able to have a life, too. It really is the same , old story. Let the babies be born but forget about their living conditions.


Yes!!!!!! How many times must this basic reality be stated?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Rep. Dan Lungren, a Republican from California, says President Barack Obama's health care plan is so mixed up that the government would tell 100-year-old ladies who need pacemakers to take pain pills instead. 

During a speech on the House floor on July 28, 2009, Lungren cited comments that Obama made in a TV special to suggest that Obama's plan was callous and bureaucratic. 

"If we are being told that this week we have to make the decision as to whether or not the program we put forward will have government decide whether a 100-year-old woman who is in extraordinarily good health but needs a pacemaker ought to instead be told by the government that merely she should take a pain pill  as the president suggested on television not too long ago  then maybe we owe it to the American people to give ourselves sufficient time to study this legislation further. 

Lungren was referring to remarks Obama made during the ABC News' June 24 special, Questions for the President: Prescription for America, which was anchored by Diane Sawyer and Charles Gibson. 

We went to the transcript of the event and found that Lungren is distorting Obama's words. While Obama did bring up the example of patients and their families possibly having to choose between a pill and a pacemaker at some point, he did it as a hypothetical example while emphasizing that the governments role should be to provide background information so that patients and doctors can better sort through thorny, end-of-life issues. 

The exchange began when Sawyer introduced Jane Sturm, who takes care of her mother, Hazel, now 105. When Hazel was 100, Sturm said, the doctor told her she needed a pacemaker. Both mother and daughter said they were game, but an arrhythmia specialist initially said no, before seeing Hazels joy of life in person. 

Sturm asked the president, Outside the medical criteria for prolonging life for somebody elderly, is there any consideration that can be given for a certain spirit, a certain joy of living, quality of life? Or is it just a medical cutoff at a certain age? 

After joking that hed like to meet Sturms mother and find out what shes eating, the president said, I don't think that we can make judgments based on peoples' spirit. That would be a pretty subjective decision to be making. I think we have to have rules that say that we are going to provide good, quality care for all people. 

After Gibson interjected with a comment about how money may not have been available for a pacemaker, Obama responded, Well, and  and that's absolutely true. And end-of-life care is one of the most difficult sets of decisions that we're going to have to make. I don't want bureaucracies making those decisions, but understand that those decisions are already being made in one way or another. If they're not being made under Medicare and Medicaid, they're being made by private insurers. We don't always make those decisions explicitly. We often make those decisions by just letting people run out of money or making the deductibles so high or the out-of-pocket expenses so onerous that they just can't afford the care. 

Obama continued, And all we're suggesting  and we're not going to solve every difficult problem in terms of end-of-life care. A lot of that is going to have to be, we as a culture and as a society starting to make better decisions within our own families and for ourselves. But what we can do is make sure that at least some of the waste that exists in the system that's not making anybody's mom better, that is loading up on additional tests or additional drugs that the evidence shows is not necessarily going to improve care, that at least we can let doctors know and your mom know that, you know what? Maybe this isn't going to help. Maybe you're better off not having the surgery, but taking the painkiller. And those kinds of decisions between doctors and patients, and making sure that our incentives are not preventing those good decisions, and that  that doctors and hospitals all are aligned for patient care, that's something we can achieve.

Source: Politifact.com


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> I guess I'm glad you found something to amuse you on your drive. Have you ever tried audio books? I like the variety. I enjoy learning something new.


Hopefully one of your the books is on manners.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Outrageous for grown women to treat anyone like that. It was pretty obvious that something was wrong from her posts.


But did they stop there? No ! Susan knew about her medical history, and stirred the pot with her comment about putting a pencil in between her teeth. Then the others proceeded to act like a wolf pack going in for the kill.

Even after they knew about her medical issue and it was obvious that it was escalating into something serious, one of the wolves reported her for language.

I think it is their MO, gang up, go for the kill, then report them.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> No, the Republicans aren't just looking to get the President's head on a platter for Benghazi, no matter how happy it would make them. You just haven't bothered to look for matching statistics for the President's administration. Because Bush was a drunken fool doesn't mean the current administration's hands are clean. Of course, it's easier to blame W because he's such a big target, and he was so obviously terminally stupid. How many republican candidates sought his endorsement in 2012?
> 
> You aren't alone in trying to take that easy way out. Lots of people love to do that. And I say this from the point of view that W was one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had, and from the fact that most of the American people were too busy running up credit card debt to take any responsibility for who they elected for any and every political position around.


And to think some of us were raked over the coals for calling Obama "lazy", and yet you feel it appropriate to call him a 'drunken fool' and 'terminally stupid' ? Maybe you should be reported, it would be my "patriotic duty" as you threatened to do to others in the past.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

off2knit said:


> And to think some of us were raked over the coals for calling Obama "lazy", and yet you feel it appropriate to call him a 'drunken fool' and 'terminally stupid' ? Maybe you should be reported, it would be my "patriotic duty" as you threatened to do to others in the past.


Before you report her, SS is not calling President Obama a "drunken fool" and "terminally stupid", she was referring to Bush.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

G.W. Bush is no longer President of the United States. (Thank heavens. North Korea would be long gone for trying to play 'chicken.' Ooops! They aren't major oil producers. They might get a pass.) 

My personal opinion. Please add yours too.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

medusa said:


> Before you report her, SS is not calling President Obama a "drunken fool" and "terminally stupid", she was referring to Bush.


All the more reason to report her.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

medusa said:


> Before you report her, SS is not calling President Obama a "drunken fool" and "terminally stupid", she was referring to Bush.


And that make it better somehow?

As I recall Bush gave up drinking in the 80's but one of you called him a drunken fool. Does that mean that obama is a coked up hothead?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> And that make it better somehow?
> 
> As I recall Bush gave up drinking in the 80's but one of you called him a drunken fool. Does that mean that obama is a coked up hothead?


I agree with you. Maybe we should.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> But did they stop there? No ! Susan knew about her medical history, and stirred the pot with her comment about putting a pencil in between her teeth.


The only info I had about Yarnie's medical condition was what she herself chose to reveal in the thread a month or two ago--aphasia (trouble finding the words to communicate) due to a seizure. At the time I assumed she meant one seizure caused by a small stroke or head injury, not an ongoing chronic condition. Aside from the typos I never saw any indication that the woman had any serious impairments--doubtless if folks had known she would have been given the kid gloves treatment, as one or two participants already receive when they post off the wall comments.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> The only info I had about Yarnie's medical condition was what she herself chose to reveal in the thread a month or two ago--aphasia (trouble finding the words to communicate) due to a seizure. At the time I assumed she meant one seizure caused by a small stroke or head injury, not an ongoing chronic condition. Aside from the typos I never saw any indication that the woman had any serious impairments--doubtless if folks had known she would have been given the kid gloves treatment, as one or two participants already receive when they post off the wall comments.


You knew she had had a seizure and it was obvious to everyone reading the posts that she was not herself. You even commented that she should put a pencil in her mouth because you thought another seizure was coming. What other proof does one need you and your friends ganged up on her like a pack of wolves, knowing she was having problems, laughed at and escalated her stress and a potentially medical emergency without any decency or humanity? And you justify your viciousness because you think others got a pass when they said something inappropriate? For that you and your friends get no pass.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Yes!!!!!! How many times must this basic reality be stated?


How many times must we be reminded not to put people in categories?! Just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I'm a knee-jerk anything. My views on helping the poor have nothing to do with politics. There are many organizations out there trying very hard to help pregnant mothers and their babies. There are individuals doing what they can to help by donating clothes, helping at clinics, volunteering at parenting classes. You don't have be be a socialist to want to help people.

This statement of people wanting all these babies born into poverty gets us nowhere. Just because I think abortion is wrong doesn't mean I want babies born into poverty. That just doesn't even make sense. Do you really think that I should adopt all the babies to prevent them being aborted? Well, guess what - there are places that do take in those babies. And there are people who would love to adopt them. I'm 68 - that is certainly not the way I help this cause.

Please stop stereotyping. Your saying that I want babies born into poverty is as unreliable a statement as my saying that you want to take my money for yourself. Can't we please look at these situations realistically?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And that make it better somehow?
> 
> As I recall Bush gave up drinking in the 80's but one of you called him a drunken fool. Does that mean that obama is a coked up hothead?


Maybe that's why he never gets anything done. Like the budget. Couldn't even come up with one for how many years?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You knew she had had a seizure and it was obvious to everyone reading the posts that she was not herself. You even commented that she should put a pencil in her mouth because you thought another seizure was coming. What other proof does one need you and your friends ganged up on her like a pack of wolves, knowing she was having problems, laughed at and escalated her stress and a potentially medical emergency without any decency or humanity? And you justify your viciousness because you think others got a pass when they said something inappropriate? For that you and your friends get no pass.


I have to agree with Off2Knits. I've been truly shocked by the comments to Yarnie and to Janeway. I've tried to be civil and friendly, but I find myself getting angry. This is bad for my blood pressure and my soul, so I'm off to find greener pastures. I know a place that's like a breath of spring air and a cool breeze in summer. I'm Off2FriendlierShores.
Signing off,
Bonnie (bonbf3)


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> You knew she had had a seizure and it was obvious to everyone reading the posts that she was not herself. You even commented that she should put a pencil in her mouth because you thought another seizure was coming. What other proof does one need you and your friends ganged up on her like a pack of wolves, knowing she was having problems, laughed at and escalated her stress and a potentially medical emergency without any decency or humanity? And you justify your viciousness because you think others got a pass when they said something inappropriate? For that you and your friends get no pass.


Frankly there's evidence that Yarnie was being egged on by others in her one-woman quest to right perceived wrongs--in her own words she was paying "you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site." Of all the rightists only two had the decency to step forward and try to talk her down--neither of which was you.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Alcameron,
> Not at all. The consensus, if there was one, could have been that some children do not get good parenting and some do. Also, that those who get good parenting usually do well. And - that parenting is hard work and takes time.


There is always the exception. My best friend's daughter was raped by her boyfriend at 16 and became pregnant. Their choice was abortion. I would never judge anyone for that choice.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hopefully one of your the books is on manners.[/
> Delete


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> And that make it better somehow?
> 
> As I recall Bush gave up drinking in the 80's but one of you called him a drunken fool. Does that mean that obama is a coked up hothead?


No, that would be Bush, too.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> No, that would be Bush, too.


 :thumbup:


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> No, that would be Bush, too.


Leave it to you, my friend! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> How many times must we be reminded not to put people in categories?! Just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I'm a knee-jerk anything. My views on helping the poor have nothing to do with politics. There are many organizations out there trying very hard to help pregnant mothers and their babies. There are individuals doing what they can to help by donating clothes, helping at clinics, volunteering at parenting classes. You don't have be be a socialist to want to help people.
> 
> This statement of people wanting all these babies born into poverty gets us nowhere. Just because I think abortion is wrong doesn't mean I want babies born into poverty. That just doesn't even make sense. Do you really think that I should adopt all the babies to prevent them being aborted? Well, guess what - there are places that do take in those babies. And there are people who would love to adopt them. I'm 68 - that is certainly not the way I help this cause.
> 
> Please stop stereotyping. Your saying that I want babies born into poverty is as unreliable a statement as my saying that you want to take my money for yourself. Can't we please look at these situations realistically?


The whole point of my original rant about this topic is that it is a political issue when one considers how poorly we as a country do in taking care of the poor. Republicans traditionally and even many on this thread feel that the poor are lazy, don't look for work, and are always looking to the government to support them. Furthermore, poor people are always criticized for going to the store with their food stamps and buying soda and steak. The government has to help these people because nobody else has any program that is big enough to take care of 16 million children, to say nothing about the rest of the family. I am very familiar with agencies for the poor in our city. They scratch for every bit of funding they can get. Every church contributes. Citizens who can give of time and talent. But guess what??? It's not enough!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Maybe that's why he never gets anything done. Like the budget. Couldn't even come up with one for how many years?


Contrary to popular opinion, he has come up with budgets, but the repubs don't even want to look at them!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> **********************
> I don't think we have the right to take a human life because we think he or she might have a hard life. Most people with difficult circumstances would probably still choose life over death. Many people with difficult beginnings go on to have wonderful lives.
> 
> We don't have the right to murder people or even to steal their property. Even if we want to. I think it should be the same with an unborn baby. We don't have the right.
> ...


I think this article may shed another light on Ezekiel Emanuel. I read the site where you got your information. Here is a different perspective.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE0D71030F936A1575BC0A96F9C8B63&ref=ezekieljemanuel


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think this article may shed another light on Ezekiel Emanuel. I read the site where you got your information. Here is a different perspective.
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE0D71030F936A1575BC0A96F9C8B63&ref=ezekieljemanuel


Thank you Rocky!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks for an informative article, Rocky!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Read the article--the spin doctors must have put in overtime turning this well-meaning man into a villain. Not surprised that Bachmann is one of them. Will that woman ever learn to keep her mouth shut?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, I have read several pages from those who caused Yarnie to become so upset! Hope all of you are very proud of yourselves as several of you were making fun of me and Yarnie's health conditions to make yourselves look superior!

A few of you were making fun that I had an oxygen machine in my house!

Well, all bets are off where those of you are concerned as you stirred her up then when she became angry reported her. I will report you when you make any more hateful remarks.

Shame, shame on all of you who did this as your time is limited--new names or not as I now know who is who so you cannot hide!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, I have read several pages from those who caused Yarnie to become so upset! Hope all of you are very proud of yourselves as several of you were making fun of me and Yarnie's health conditions to make yourselves look superior!
> 
> A few of you were making fun that I had an oxygen machine in my house!
> 
> ...


We are never going to get anywhere, if we do not stop looking to the past but move onto the future. This tit for tat has to stop.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Unfortunately it appears that some righties have a vested interest in keeping the unpleasantness going. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but there seems to be no end in sight.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The whole point of my original rant about this topic is that it is a political issue when one considers how poorly we as a country do in taking care of the poor. Republicans traditionally and even many on this thread feel that the poor are lazy, don't look for work, and are always looking to the government to support them. Furthermore, poor people are always criticized for going to the store with their food stamps and buying soda and steak. The government has to help these people because nobody else has any program that is big enough to take care of 16 million children, to say nothing about the rest of the family. I am very familiar with agencies for the poor in our city. They scratch for every bit of funding they can get. Every church contributes. Citizens who can give of time and talent. But guess what??? It's not enough!


Well, I struggle every month to get by on our income but see people using food stamps who do not speak English buying good cuts of meat or pizzas, chips and lots of junk food. Yet they are dressed in name brand jeans have leather coats, hair done at a shop and finger nails so long they have trouble tearing out the food stamps while 2 or 3 kids are tearing up the place.

I feel sorry for those who are truly having a difficult time with not much money, but for every one of those, there are 10 who are abusing the system.

My neighbor is one who struggles each month is trying to sell her house without success as she cannot afford to stay in her 47 year old house. When I make soup, stew or something we share with her as I don't think she would eat half of the time. She has a car but only goes to a store every 2 weeks as gas is too expensive. She has one estranged daughter who never comes around.

Where is the help for her! It seems there is only help for those who do not try to help themselves but continue to have babies they do not take care of nor teach them how to behave!

So tell me about all of these "poor" people who need help and I will take a picture of those who are lined up at our church's food give away all dressed up and well manicured people who have several half dressed children in the car, but not a man to be seen!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unfortunately it appears that some righties have a vested interest in keeping the unpleasantness going. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but there seems to be no end in sight.


This isn't a discussion forum, it is a brawl. Let's begin again.


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> We are never going to get anywhere, if we do not stop looking to the past but move onto the future. This tit for tat has to stop.


Oh, yes, now you want me to stop bring up what you did to Yarnie! Well I won't let it die as you can be reported at anytime so I'm watching!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> This isn't a discussion forum, it is a brawl. Let's begin again.


I'm ready so bring back the garbage as that is what you spew best!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sorry, CB, but my pets had souls and if they don't greet me at the Pearly Gates I'm going to give God a lecture that won't stop until my pets do show up.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> **********************
> I don't think we have the right to take a human life because we think he or she might have a hard life. Most people with difficult circumstances would probably still choose life over death. Many people with difficult beginnings go on to have wonderful lives.
> 
> We don't have the right to murder people or even to steal their property. Even if we want to. I think it should be the same with an unborn baby. We don't have the right.
> ...


Where did you get the Obama quote?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Unfortunately it appears that some righties have a vested interest in keeping the unpleasantness going. Maybe I'm being pessimistic, but there seems to be no end in sight.


No, I won't let it die as what you said to Yarnie was horrible then one of you reported her so I'm watching and can still report you for your written words to her.

I thought you were nice until those words you wrote--shame, shame on you is all I can say! I don't think you feel any remorse for what you did to her!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> This ties in to another question. I must ask if there's a choice between having lousy parents and dying before you take a breath, which would most people choose?


If you haven't taken a breath yet, I'm going to assume you are dead. Yes?


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm out of here to PT but will return to read the hateful remarks!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Are you including the 3000+ that the terrorists killed on 9/11? Because if Clinton had been doing his elected job instead of getting a **** job in the Oval Office, your spiteful question would not be needed to be asked.


I don't think we can accurately how terrorists will strike. If so, we would have eliminated terroristic strikes. I don't believe we can lay the blame at the feet of the different presidents.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> You are pathetic if you blame Bush for 9/11. Bush had Congressional permission to go after the terrorist, and many more died. But how many have been saved/
> 
> An Ambassador had not been murdered for over 30 years and that occurred under Obama. He, Hillary and others knew he wrote and asked for more help and it was ignored. That is on Obama's head. And I would bet money, that if Benghazi had happened on Bush's watch, Hillary wouldn't have said to get over it.
> 
> You and your Bush bashing sound like a broken record. And yes he got Bin L. thanks to water boarding. It is time for Obama to put his big boy pants on, stop campaigning, playing golf and start doing his job. God help us with North Korea


Sadly, there were several indications that there was going to be a major strike against the US. Two flight schools thought it odd that two men wanted to learn how to turn an airplane - not fly it. That was a red flag and then there was an agent for one of the federal agencies, can't remember which right now, that sent memos to the White House informing them of a potential strike.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I have everything except the naptha. Is that a bar soap?
> 
> I love receipes like these. I use borax and baking soda in the bathroom. And I use baking soda and lavender in the kitchen. I am looking for a non toxic oven cleaner. Baking soda and vinegar just does not work on heavy spots.


I like baking soda and lemon. Really cuts grease. Leave it on for a few minutes then wipe clean.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> off2knit wrote:
> I am saddened that no one has mentioned the dead embassy worker. She was blown up giving books to children. That is the 4th embassy person to die under the Obama administration
> 
> I'm saddened because I have never heard about this incident. I admit I pay as little attention as possible to the news, but the big stuff usually gets through. How about adding the when and where?


Why don't we get out staff out of there?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly there's evidence that Yarnie was being egged on by others in her one-woman quest to right perceived wrongs--in her own words she was paying "you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site." Of all the rightists only two had the decency to step forward and try to talk her down--neither of which was you.


So when did being ill give one license to be nasty?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Sadly, there were several indications that there was going to be a major strike against the US. Two flight schools thought it odd that two men wanted to learn how to turn an airplane - not fly it. That was a red flag and then there was an agent for one of the federal agencies, can't remember which right now, that sent memos to the White House informing them of a potential strike.


The flight school they attended was here in Minneapolis. It was they didn't want to learn how to _land_ the plane. They thought it odd at the time but they didn't report it until after the attack when they learned that the two flying the planes into the towers were their students.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> The only info I had about Yarnie's medical condition was what she herself chose to reveal in the thread a month or two ago--aphasia (trouble finding the words to communicate) due to a seizure. At the time I assumed she meant one seizure caused by a small stroke or head injury, not an ongoing chronic condition. Aside from the typos I never saw any indication that the woman had any serious impairments--doubtless if folks had known she would have been given the kid gloves treatment, as one or two participants already receive when they post off the wall comments.


It doesn't matter. What you said was making fun of her. If I were you, I'd apologize. I think you also were the one who made a comment to Janeway about her oxygen. This is too much for me.

I'm not watching this topic any more.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, I struggle every month to get by on our income but see people using food stamps who do not speak English buying good cuts of meat or pizzas, chips and lots of junk food. Yet they are dressed in name brand jeans have leather coats, hair done at a shop and finger nails so long they have trouble tearing out the food stamps while 2 or 3 kids are tearing up the place.
> 
> I feel sorry for those who are truly having a difficult time with not much money, but for every one of those, there are 10 who are abusing the system.
> 
> ...


Janeway, 
What you report in your area is exactly what I see and have experienced in my northeast area of the US. Granted,there are many people who deserve help, but it appears those who take advantage are so visible and shameless. The govt. should put into effect better ways to determine the truly needy from the slugs.

I agree there needs to be a safety net and a program to get people off the dole and working towards independence. I'd prefer adding to the low salaries of the WORKING poor and decreasing the bennies so the slugs had to earn the nice things that others work and save to have. The welfare, food stamp systems etc., should be one of basic necessities only.The present system leads those to generational expected entitlements and dependence.

And here we are! Doubters, see these:




and this 



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAR3B8S6nsc








http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6x5wCxxUX7M




 This man makes sense. 
and there are many more videos. It is a disgrace.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> So when did being ill give one license to be nasty?


 Take it from me, you don't understand the situation and should just leave it alone. If a person ISN'T ill, they especially don't have a right to be nasty. But they were. This is a disgusting situation that I'd expect only from ignorant children who hadn't had time to learn compassion. Unbelievable! I'm totally shocked, and it isn't going away so I am.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> The flight school they attended was here in Minneapolis. It was they didn't want to learn how to _land_ the plane. They thought it odd at the time but they didn't report it until after the attack when they learned that the two flying the planes into the towers were their students.


They also trained at a field about a mile and a half from the school where I teach. The head guy - can't remember his name but I know his face - worked out at a local gym.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Sadly, there were several indications that there was going to be a major strike against the US. Two flight schools thought it odd that two men wanted to learn how to turn an airplane - not fly it. That was a red flag and then there was an agent for one of the federal agencies, can't remember which right now, that sent memos to the White House informing them of a potential strike.


Hindsight.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> If you haven't taken a breath yet, I'm going to assume you are dead. Yes?


No - not yet born. Babies in the womb.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Hindsight.


Just like Benghazi.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly there's evidence that Yarnie was being egged on by others in her one-woman quest to right perceived wrongs--in her own words she was paying "you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site." Of all the rightists only two had the decency to step forward and try to talk her down--neither of which was you.


If I had been on the air I would have tried to intervene. Susan just say your sorry and be done with it. I don't know what I have done to you or the others. If I have said anything hurtful I am sorry.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Just like Benghazi.


We were aware of Benghazi as it was going on.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, there are these nifty things called oven liners or something like that, that you put on the lowest shelf of your oven. They catch the drips, are washable, so reusable. Go to Harriet Carter online or some similar outfit and you'll find them there, including a size for toaster ovens. I haven't seen them on sale in ordinary retail stores, unfortunately, but I haven't looked in a while. I love mine because they really cut down the need to use oven cleaner. I think at least 80% of the spills end up on my oven liner, so that means a huge difference in using oven cleaner.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thumper, I called Bush a drunken fool. I don't know what of his youthful party tendencies President Obama has taken up again. None, I hope, though supposedly he smokes cigarettes sometimes. Former President Bush is very rarely seen in public and I don't remember any Republicans seeking his endorsement in the 2012 election. This is just my personal belief, but I think W is in a nice padded room at his ranch drinking and snorting (he liked cocaine as well as booze) to his heat's content.

Look at the reports we got while W was in office about his daughters' behavior. Drinking and taking Xanax with their booze and getting caught by police for obvious DUIs. I wonder where they learned that from? Daddy, maybe?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> So when did being ill give one license to be nasty?


Sometimes illness DOES explain behavior. Might be a good idea to remember that and try to ascertain if someone making nasty remarks is indeed suffering from an illness that inflames his/her "nastiness"?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, I called Bush a drunken fool. I don't know what of his youthful party tendencies President Obama has taken up again. None, I hope, though supposedly he smokes cigarettes sometimes. Former President Bush is very rarely seen in public and I don't remember any Republicans seeking his endorsement in the 2012 election. This is just my personal belief, but I think W is in a nice padded room at his ranch drinking and snorting (he liked cocaine as well as booze) to his heat's content.
> 
> Look at the reports we got while W was in office about his daughters' behavior. Drinking and taking Xanax with their booze and getting caught by police for obvious DUIs. I wonder where they learned that from? Daddy, maybe?


George W. Bush just hosted his annual Wounded Warrior Weekend at his ranch. On Facebook there was a photo of him dancing with a lovely young lady - a soldier who had lost a leg. He has continued to serve those who served for us in the military. He and Laura are doing just fine in God's country - Texas! Thank you very much.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> We are never going to get anywhere, if we do not stop looking to the past but move onto the future. This tit for tat has to stop.


Maybe we won't ever get anywhere until everyone who stirred up Yarnie apologizes publicly, here, in this topic. Let me start:

Yarnie, I hope you will see this. I apologize for the mean things I said to you on Friday. I hope you're OK and that you will come back to us and take part in this topic again.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sometimes illness DOES explain behavior. Might be a good idea to remember that and try to ascertain if someone making nasty remarks is indeed suffering from an illness that inflames his/her "nastiness"?


Yes, and refrain from agitating the person even more. Sometimes this is beyond a person's control and is temporary. Friends understand.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Peacegoddess, there are these nifty things called oven liners or something like that, that you put on the lowest shelf of your oven. They catch the drips, are washable, so reusable. Go to Harriet Carter online or some similar outfit and you'll find them there, including a size for toaster ovens. I haven't seen them on sale in ordinary retail stores, unfortunately, but I haven't looked in a while. I love mine because they really cut down the need to use oven cleaner. I think at least 80% of the spills end up on my oven liner, so that means a huge difference in using oven cleaner.


Those are good - I use them also. Locally, you can get them at Walmart or Bed, Bath & Beyond. They last a long time and are easily washed.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, I called Bush a drunken fool. I don't know what of his youthful party tendencies President Obama has taken up again. None, I hope, though supposedly he smokes cigarettes sometimes. Former President Bush is very rarely seen in public and I don't remember any Republicans seeking his endorsement in the 2012 election. This is just my personal belief, but I think W is in a nice padded room at his ranch drinking and snorting (he liked cocaine as well as booze) to his heat's content.
> 
> Look at the reports we got while W was in office about his daughters' behavior. Drinking and taking Xanax with their booze and getting caught by police for obvious DUIs. I wonder where they learned that from? Daddy, maybe?


If you are talking about the younger Bush, he lives in Dallas - about 2 miles from where I work. When not at his ranch, he is frequently seen dining, riding the bike trails and attending some community functions. Don't know about smoking but he does not drink alcohol. I worked in the same office building as him when his dad was president and young Bush was always courteous.

He wasn't my favorite president but I did and do respect him.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> George W. Bush just hosted his annual Wounded Warrior Weekend at his ranch. On Facebook there was a photo of him dancing with a lovely young lady - a soldier who had lost a leg. He has continued to serve those who served for us in the military. He and Laura are doing just fine in God's country - Texas! Thank you very much.


I wonder how long it took to get him into good enough shape to be seen in public. Say what you may to me, I'm sticking with seeing W as a drunken, drugged out fool. Oh, and one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had. You can insult President Obama in return, but I figure most Presidents are flawed so you might want to save your remarks for someone else.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> If you are talking about the younger Bush, he lives in Dallas - about 2 miles from where I work. When not at his ranch, he is frequently seen dining, riding the bike trails and attending some community functions. Don't know about smoking but he does not drink alcohol. I worked in the same office building as him when his dad was president and young Bush was always courteous.
> 
> He wasn't my favorite president but I did and do respect him.


That's where we differ. I don't respect Shrub one single, solitary bit. When he was President all I could do was respect the office, not the man. I also don't believe the bonehead is sober, either. He wasn't worth a warm quart of spit as President and I'm sure he's remained that way, or slid on downhill even more. Other than Shrub's father, his brother Jeb is the one in the family who got the brains


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> If I had been on the air I would have tried to intervene. Susan just say your sorry and be done with
> 
> 
> > Why not let Yarnie make the request for an apology herself? So much of the trouble in the thread stems from miscommunication--without being able to see each other's faces as we "converse" it's very easy to misread or misjudge another's posts. Acting as each other advocates and lashing out when we feel a friend or ally has been slighted only complicates the matter further. If the tone of thread is ever to improve people need to speak for themselves and stop relying on others to do so for them.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > If I had been on the air I would have tried to intervene. Susan just say your sorry and be done with
> ...


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You miss the point entirely. After all the s--t that was flung at Yarnie, she isn't the one who needs to apologize. The s--t slingers get to do that. The ones who don't will prove their worth as human beings.


Well said...but it would sound even better coming from Yarnie herself as she considers herself the offended party.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well said...but it would sound even better coming from Yarnie herself as she considers herself the offended party.


You seem to refuse to get the point. Yarnie was offended enough that she hasn't responded to friends' PMs. I hope I'm wrong about that. Apologize to her here, publicly, and by PM, and then I might think you've finally understood how to make a bad situation better. In fact, I dare you to apologize to Yarnie. Prove to us all that you have some human feeling for her.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly there's evidence that Yarnie was being egged on by others in her one-woman quest to right perceived wrongs--in her own words she was paying "you all back for all you have done to me and the other's on this site." Of all the rightists only two had the decency to step forward and try to talk her down--neither of which was you.


Again with the false accusations. I was not online during the attack and only saw it the next day, when I read through at least 5+ pages. So I had no way of communicating her. But the fact remains, you still with your false accusation, blame me and take no responsibility for your cruelty. No wonder you support Obama; because in my opinion, neither of you have the character to take responsibility for your actions or lack of action


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Contrary to popular opinion, he has come up with budgets, but the repubs don't even want to look at them!


Harry Reid would not put them up for a vote, and when one was voted on it did not get one yes vote. So if it is not on the floor to vote on, how can one look at it?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Just like Benghazi.


No that was not hind sight, that was negligence on both Obama and Hillary. With the attack on the Brit's Embassy a few days before and the letters begging for more security, that is not an opps, that is failure to "Serve and Protect"


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, I called Bush a drunken fool. I don't know what of his youthful party tendencies President Obama has taken up again. None, I hope, though supposedly he smokes cigarettes sometimes. Former President Bush is very rarely seen in public and I don't remember any Republicans seeking his endorsement in the 2012 election. This is just my personal belief, but I think W is in a nice padded room at his ranch drinking and snorting (he liked cocaine as well as booze) to his heat's content.
> 
> Look at the reports we got while W was in office about his daughters' behavior. Drinking and taking Xanax with their booze and getting caught by police for obvious DUIs. I wonder where they learned that from? Daddy, maybe?


Sometimes illness DOES explain behavior. Might be a good idea to remember that and try to ascertain if someone making nasty remarks is indeed suffering from an illness that inflames his/her "nastiness"?

So is that your excuse? Your nasty name calling of Pres Bush is appalling. He just donated one of his trucks this weekend that was auctioned off for over 300K for the Fisher House and another charity for veterans, whose name I forgot.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You seem to refuse to get the point. Yarnie was offended enough that she hasn't responded to friends' PMs. I hope I'm wrong about that. Apologize to her here, publicly, and by PM, and then I might think you've finally understood how to make a bad situation better. In fact, I dare you to apologize to Yarnie. Prove to us all that you have some human feeling for her.


Do you honestly feel that my posts were powerful enough to drive what you and others have described as a wonderful woman completely over the edge? Does anyone here possess that ability?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> No that was not hind sight, that was negligence on both Obama and Hillary. With the attack on the Brit's Embassy a few days before and the letters begging for more security, that is not an opps, that is failure to "Serve and Protect"


But, as I recall, we also had advance notice of the attacks on 9/11. Just as the tower situation occurred so quickly, so did the incoming missiles in Benghazi. There was not failure to serve and protect. It's terrorism.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Oh, yes, now you want me to stop bring up what you did to Yarnie! Well I won't let it die as you can be reported at anytime so I'm watching!


I never said a thing to Yarnie, I do not talking to her at all. she can be mean and nasty.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Do you honestly feel that my posts were powerful enough to drive what others have described as a wonderful woman completely over the edge? Does anyone here possess that ability?


If people choose to take comments personally, then that is their issue. We can ignore any comments we feel are not worthy of our reply.

If someone is well enough to post their thoughts and do so several times, then they are well enough to censor what they write. I think some may be following a saying that I personally dislike: What is good for the goose is good for the gander".


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> George W. Bush just hosted his annual Wounded Warrior Weekend at his ranch. On Facebook there was a photo of him dancing with a lovely young lady - a soldier who had lost a leg. He has continued to serve those who served for us in the military. He and Laura are doing just fine in God's country - Texas! Thank you very much.


He would not have had to dance with a wounded warrior if he hadn't declared war on Iraq.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> He would not have had to dance with a wounded warrior if he hadn't declared war on Iraq.


Iraq declared war on us not the other way around


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Iraq declared war on us not the other way around


Indeed. How and when did that happen? I must have been out of the country.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie - I wish there was an answer and help for every woman in this situation but not all women have access to help, some are pressured by husband or boyfriend or family or rejected by those people who should be helping them out. I respect your opinion and your belief but I don't want to go back to the way it was. It was barbaric. As solway said there are many reasons and we don't know what that woman is dealing with. The last thing she needs is to be considered a criminal and be punished. She has already paid a dear price and I won't judge her. Women won't stop having abortions if it is made illegal and good intentions from people won't make a woman's problems go away. I also see the hypocrisy of people who insist babies be born and once they are here they are at the mercy of whoever is to raise them. I don't see these people outraged when children end up brutalized by their own parents and even murdered. Where are those people then? Then they put the blinders on. Who saves those babies? Don't those babies deserve to be loved and cared for too?


So true. these babies usually end up in the system, shuttled about for years and then let go. Are they really any better off being taken away from their parent(s) or is living in the system without their parent(s) the way to go? I honestly don't know. Either path results in damaged children.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sound advice...unless the other person's problem causes her to unleash a torrent of obscenity and abuse. Then it's either laugh or cry.


But that did not happen. It was you that started the whole thing with your comment. But then Alecmon doesn't think bullying and horrible comments matter because it was in the past and it's a new day.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> So true. these babies usually end up in the system, shuttled about for years and then let go. Are they really any better off being taken away from their parent(s) or is living in the system without their parent(s) the way to go? I honestly don't know. Either path results in damaged children.


The reason they are shuttled about for years is because the parents refuse to relinquish their parental rights. The social service 'experts' do not want young children remaining in homes for long for fear of bonding with the foster parents only to have the 'real' parent (I use the term losely) show up and want them back. The 'experts' found it was too traumatic for the child if they had bonded with the foster parents.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Iraq declared war on us not the other way around


May have a link to that comment? I can not find where and when Iraq declared on the US? I thought it was a preemptive strike.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> But that did not happen. It was you that started the whole thing with your comment. But then Alecmon doesn't think bullying and horrible comments matter because it was in the past and it's a new day.


Not quite. I made that comment after Yarnie unleashed a stream of insults at me that ran for three paragraphs. She also insulted BrattyPatty, Cheeky Blighter, Al, and many others.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Iraq declared war on us not the other way around


I respectfully disagree. Iraq enacted a terrorist attack - we engaged them in war.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> May have a link to that comment? I can not find where and when Iraq declared on the US? I thought it was a preemptive strike.


Persian Gulf War


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

I learned something new today:

"On five occasions, Congress has, indeed, declared war, just as the Constitution contemplates: with England in 1812, Mexico in 1846, and in Spain in 1898, and in World War I and World War II. In each instance, Congress did so at the request of the President. 

On at least two occasions, Congress has refused to declare war despite a president's seeking such a declaration. In 1815, Congress turned down President's Madison's request to go to war against Algiers -- authorizing instead limited naval action. In 1999, by a tie vote of 213 to 213, the House of Representatives refused to give President Clinton a declaration of war against Yugoslavia for action in Kosovo."

Only Congress has the power to declare war - the President can ask but it is not always granted.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I respectfully disagree. Iraq enacted a terrorist attack - we engaged them in war.


Which terrorist attack do you mean?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I wonder how long it took to get him into good enough shape to be seen in public. Say what you may to me, I'm sticking with seeing W as a drunken, drugged out fool. Oh, and one of the worst Presidents this country has ever had. You can insult President Obama in return, but I figure most Presidents are flawed so you might want to save your remarks for someone else.


You can stick to your vision of seeing him that way, even though it's not based on fact. It's crazy to do it that way, but obviously you have some reason for not wanting to accept what is. Don't you think that's rather unkind of you? Well, that's the way it's been here on this forum. Disappointing.

"There is none so blind as he who will not see."

All presidents are flawed. All people are flawed.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> The reason they are shuttled about for years is because the parents refuse to relinquish their parental rights. The social service 'experts' do not want young children remaining in homes for long for fear of bonding with the foster parents only to have the 'real' parent (I use the term losely) show up and want them back. The 'experts' found it was too traumatic for the child if they had bonded with the foster parents.


The "experts'" logic is amazing. Don't let a child have a bond with an adult because that adult might not be in their lives for long. But let that child be returned to their parent(s) over and over again and not realize how harmful that is to the child. It's no wonder these kids are screwed up.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> That's where we differ. I don't respect Shrub one single, solitary bit. When he was President all I could do was respect the office, not the man. I also don't believe the bonehead is sober, either. He wasn't worth a warm quart of spit as President and I'm sure he's remained that way, or slid on downhill even more. Other than Shrub's father, his brother Jeb is the one in the family who got the brains


That's the way I feel about Obama. He's hurting our country, lying to the us, and plain unable to do the job.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > If I had been on the air I would have tried to intervene. Susan just say your sorry and be done with
> ...


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> That's where we differ. I don't respect Shrub one single, solitary bit. When he was President all I could do was respect the office, not the man. I also don't believe the bonehead is sober, either. He wasn't worth a warm quart of spit as President and I'm sure he's remained that way, or slid on downhill even more. Other than Shrub's father, his brother Jeb is the one in the family who got the brains


That's really the way to open those doors of communication, SeattleSoul. What's happened to you over Spring Break?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Gee - isn't that called blaming the victim? Yes, it is.


Yarnie insulted me in three scathing paragraphs that also took swipes at my husband and son, filled another six pages calling others stupid, b--tch etc--and SHE is the victim here?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Which terrorist attack do you mean?


My bad. Attacks took place in Iraq. They are beginning to run together. And this, boys and girls, is why we check our facts before posting!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Also in the news, I just read that the number of military retirees and their dependents outnumber the active duty military and their dependents. 5.5 million to 3.3 million. Now I understand why the Pentagon is proposing a military benefit reduction. I did not realize the number is so large.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yarnie insulted me in three scathing paragraphs that also took swipes at my husband and son, filled another six pages calling others stupid, b--tch etc--and SHE is the victim here?


Yes, because people who knew she was having a physical problem baited her and kept up the back-and-forth. They could have stopped, and I'm not sure she could.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Yes, because people who knew she was having a physical problem baited her and kept up the back-and-forth. They could have stopped, and I'm not sure she could.


I don't understandy when you say "...I'm not sure she could." meaning she was unable to stop for some reason? Haven't we hashed this enough? Can we move on to other issues, please.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> The reason they are shuttled about for years is because the parents refuse to relinquish their parental rights. The social service 'experts' do not want young children remaining in homes for long for fear of bonding with the foster parents only to have the 'real' parent (I use the term losely) show up and want them back. The 'experts' found it was too traumatic for the child if they had bonded with the foster parents.


And by the time the 'state' decides that the parents will never be capable of 'parenting' and they are permanently removed, they are so very damaged, and much older, that it is very difficult to find permanent families for them.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

interesting questions don't you think?

Open Letter to the U.S. House of Representatives 
April 8, 2013 
To: Members of The U.S. House of Representatives 
Subject: The Benghazi attacks on 9/11/ 2012 
The undersigned are a representative group of some 700 retired Military Special Operations professionals who spent the majority of their careers preparing for and executing myriad operations to rescue or recover detained or threatened fellow Americans. In fact, many of us participated in both the Vietnam era POW rescue effort, The Son Tay Raid, as well as Operation Eagle Claw, the failed rescue attempt in April of 1980 in Iran, so we have been at this for many years and have a deep passion for seeking the truth about what happened during the national tragedy in Benghazi. 
The purpose of this letter is to encourage all members of the US House of Representatives to support H.Res. 36, which will create a House Select Committee on the Terrorist Attack in Benghazi. It is essential that a full accounting of the events of September 11, 2012, be provided and that the American public be fully informed regarding this egregious terrorist attack on US diplomatic personnel and facilities. We owe that truth to the American people and the families of the fallen. 
It appears that many of the facts and details surrounding the terrorist attack which resulted in four American deaths and an undetermined number of American casualties have not yet been ascertained by previous hearings and inquiries. Additional information is now slowly surfacing in the media, which makes a comprehensive bipartisan inquiry an imperative. Many questions have not been answered thus far. The House Select Committee should address, at a minimum, the following questions: 
1. Why was there no military response to the events in Benghazi? 
a. Were military assets in the region available? If not, why not? 
b. If so, were they alerted? 
c. Were assets deployed to any location in preparation for a rescue or recovery attempt? 
d. Was military assistance requested by the Department of State? If so, what type? 
e. Were any US Army/Naval/USMC assets available to support the US diplomats in Benghazi during the attack? 
f. What, if any, recommendations for military action were made by DOD and the US Africa Command? 
2. What, if any, non-military assistance was provided during the attack? 
3. How many US personnel were injured in Benghazi?
4. Why have the survivors of the attack not been questioned? 
5. Where are the survivors? 
6. Who was in the White House Situation Room (WHSR) during the entire 8-hour period of the attacks, and was a senior US military officer present? 
7. Where were Leon Panetta and General Martin Dempsey during the crisis, and what inputs and recommendations did they make? 
8. Where were Tom Donilon, the National Security Advisor, Denis McDonough, his deputy, Valerie Jarrett and John Brennan during the attacks, and what (if any) recommendations or decisions did any of them make? 
9. Why were F-16 fighter aircraft based in Aviano, Italy (less than two hours away) never considered a viable option for disruption (if not dispersal) of the attackers until boots on the ground (troop support--General Dempseys words) arrived? 
10. Were any strike aircraft (such as an AC-130 gunship) in the area or possibly overhead that would cause former SEAL Tyrone Woods to laser-designate his attackers position and call for gunship fire support, thereby revealing his own location that led to his death? 
11. Who gave the order to STAND DOWN that was heard repeatedly during the attacks? 
12. What threat warnings existed before the attack, and what were the DOD and DOS responses to those warnings? What data (which will reveal exact timelines and command decisions) is contained within the various SITREPS, records, logs, videos and recordings maintained by the myriad of DOD, Intelligence Community and State Department Command Centers that were monitoring the events in Benghazi as they unfolded? 
13. Why did the Commander-in Chief and Secretary of State never once check in during the night to find out the status of the crisis situation in Benghazi? 
14. What was the nature of Ambassador Stevens business in Benghazi at the time of the attack? 
15. What guidance has been provided to survivors and family members since the time of the attack, and who issued that guidance? 
16. Why are so many agencies now requiring their personnel that were involved in or have access to information regarding the events that took place in Benghazi sign Non-Disclosure Agreements?
__________________


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think this article may shed another light on Ezekiel Emanuel. I read the site where you got your information. Here is a different perspective.
> http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0DE0D71030F936A1575BC0A96F9C8B63&ref=ezekieljemanuel


Yes, thanks rocky. Too many on the right who haven't a clue what they are even talking about the likes of M. Bachmann and Palin have frequently used scare tactics as they have no legitimate arguments to use. They are ignorant and ill - informed and do the public no good by their use of their gibberish. If they can't win people, especially seniors over then scare them to death. News flash medical care is already rationed out and yes hard choices are being made about who may get what services based on current health status, age, etc.
One of my dearest neighbors needed a kidney transplant but she passed up an opportunity to get one as there was a young man in his 30's who was also a match and she opted to not take it. She said I have lived a long full life and this young man is in the prime of his with wife and children. He still has his life to live. Her family and friends were very sad but they knew her and respected her decision. If we all could be so moral and unselfish as she was the world would be a much better place. As they say there is a time to be born and a time to die and we in America seem to feel that attaining the maximum amount of years of life is more important than the quality of that life and the dignity of that human being. We need to rethink our values.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

momeee said:


> And by the time the 'state' decides that the parents will never be capable of 'parenting' and they are permanently removed, they are so very damaged, and much older, that it is very difficult to find permanent families for them.


Exactly. That's why I'm for the one strike and you're out. Give the poor kid a chance!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Just to let those folks who have genuinely been concerned about Yarnie know--she just surfaced, seems fine, and swears she'd do it again in a heartbeat. Isn't that nice?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> **********************
> I don't think we have the right to take a human life because we think he or she might have a hard life. Most people with difficult circumstances would probably still choose life over death. Many people with difficult beginnings go on to have wonderful lives.
> 
> We don't have the right to murder people or even to steal their property. Even if we want to. I think it should be the same with an unborn baby. We don't have the right.
> ...


Bon......would you please give me the link to the Obama quote..."you're half dead already"?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Sometimes illness DOES explain behavior. Might be a good idea to remember that and try to ascertain if someone making nasty remarks is indeed suffering from an illness that inflames his/her "nastiness"?
> 
> So is that your excuse? Your nasty name calling of Pres Bush is appalling. He just donated one of his trucks this weekend that was auctioned off for over 300K for the Fisher House and another charity for veterans, whose name I forgot.


Former President Bush is a public firgure. He gets any and everything the public chooses to throw his way.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I don't understandy when you say "...I'm not sure she could." meaning she was unable to stop for some reason? Haven't we hashed this enough? Can we move on to other issues, please.


You've asked what I meant, so I shall continue to "hash it" long enough to explain. When I say "I'm not sure she could," yes, that's what I mean. You have it right. 
If you'd like to move on, please feel free to do so. I am, too.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Again with the false accusations. I was not online during the attack and only saw it the next day, when I read through at least 5+ pages. So I had no way of communicating her. But the fact remains, you still with your false accusation, blame me and take no responsibility for your cruelty. No wonder you support Obama; because in my opinion, neither of you have the character to take responsibility for your actions or lack of action


I haven't accused you of anything. You can communicate with Yarnie if you send her a PM. You can even hope she'll read it, and that might do her some good.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just to let those folks who have genuinely been concerned about Yarnie know--she just surfaced, seems fine, and swears she'd do it again in a heartbeat. Isn't that nice?


Saw that.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Former President Bush is a public firgure. He gets any and everything the public chooses to throw his way.


So why upset over calling Obama lazy? Can't he put on his Big Boy Pants and take it, like Bush does?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Saw that.


How nice of you to be concerned for her. I wonder how things would be different if we REALLY knew each other.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So why upset over calling Obama lazy? Can't he put on his Big Boy Pants and take it, like Bush does?


He called himself lazy, so he shouldn't mind.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> You've asked what I meant, so I shall continue to "hash it" long enough to explain. When I say "I'm not sure she could," yes, that's what I mean. You have it right.
> If you'd like to move on, please feel free to do so. I am, too.


Moving on meaning changing topics.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I haven't accused you of anything. You can communicate with Yarnie if you send her a PM. You can even hope she'll read it, and that might do her some good.


Yarnie is fine--in fact I just read her blow-by-blow account of Friday's fiasco. Other than a somewhat sleepless night she came away without a scratch and now sounds rather pleased with herself.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Former President Bush is a public firgure. He gets any and everything the public chooses to throw his way.


If that's your logic, then that should apply to the Obamas as well, though not the children.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yarnie is fine--in fact I just read her blow-by-blow account of Friday's fiasco. Other than a somewhat sleepless night she came away without a scratch and now sounds rather pleased with herself.


I just looked at the list of Yarnie's posts and see none made after Friday. Can you say where she reappeared?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> interesting questions don't you think?
> 
> Open Letter to the U.S. House of Representatives
> April 8, 2013
> ...


It will be interesting to follow this and see where it leads. I don't think we will get alot of answers though.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> If that's your logic, then that should apply to the Obamas as well, though not the children.


Of course it does.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I just looked at the list of Yarnie's posts and see none made after Friday. Can you say where she reappeared?


Can I PM you?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Moving on meaning changing topics.


That's what I meant, too. Although I'm trying to get off this topic altogether, but they keep sending me emails and I keep taking the bait. Weak. And nosy. Afraid I'll miss something.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yarnie is fine--in fact I just read her blow-by-blow account of Friday's fiasco. Other than a somewhat sleepless night she came away without a scratch and now sounds rather pleased with herself.


What a flippant remark. Are you sloughing off your contribution and responsibility to the attack because of what you read in another thread? Unbelievable.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Can I PM you?


Of course you can.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> That's what I meant, too. Although I'm trying to get off this topic altogether, but they keep sending me emails and I keep taking the bait. Weak. And nosy. Afraid I'll miss something.


LOL! I totally understand!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What a flippant remark. Are you sloughing off your contribution and responsibility to the attack because of what you read in another thread? Unbelievable.


Frankly whatever guilt I had in regards to Friday's disaster is gone now. According to Yarnie's account what set her off was a remark that someone else made--not my business--and something that I said to Janeway that Yarnie completely misinterpreted.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Of course you can.


 :thumbup:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

http://nation.foxnews.com/religion/2013/04/05/us-army-labeled-evangelicals-catholics-examples-religious-extremism?intcmp=fly

Get over the fact that it is from Fox, how do all you Christians and Catholics like being labeled terrorist?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> So when did being ill give one license to be nasty?


I am tired of people using Epilepsy as an excuse for Yarnladie's behavior. As I said on an earlier page I have Epilepsy as do others in my family and the behavior she shows is not caused by this disease. I resent very much that Yarnlady and her friends keep using this. It is a disservice to me and to everyone who has Epilepsy. I also said that if I showed that kind of behavior to my Neurologist he would have me checked for a brain tumor, stroke or mental disorder. I hope Yarnlady can get the medical help she may need. If she gets so upset out here she should take a break from it and try to relax. Being extremely stressed can cause a seizure but it does not cause one to lash out and make nasty comments, anger does and we all need to control ours including Yarnlady. Having Epilepsy is no treat, but it never justifys being rude and having to get even with others as she mentions in some posts. Written by one who knows.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Thus ends another episode of the ongoing KP soap opera entitled Obamacare. Someone roll the credits, please.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Sad but true, but for those of you bash Bush, justify this


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Suzi you keep saying you read that Yarnie says she is fine. I have read over all the posts and can't find that reference. Are you backdooring or shawdowing her?

I would love to know where she is posting so I can make sure she is okay. She is not online, so can't PM. I am really worried about her, and want to know she is physically okay.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> He called himself lazy, so he shouldn't mind.


Did Obama or didn't Obama say...you're half dead anyway? I would just like the reference for that quote.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

off2knit said:


> http://nation.foxnews.com/religion/2013/04/05/us-army-labeled-evangelicals-catholics-examples-religious-extremism?intcmp=fly
> 
> Get over the fact that it is from Fox, how do all you Christians and Catholics like being labeled terrorist?


I wonder what their definition of Extremism is? To me they do seem extreme. I did not see the word "terrorist". This was an isolated incident and the Army did not condone it. The slide was taken away. I think any orthodox religion is extreme.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Suzi you keep saying you read that Yarnie says she is fine. I have read over all the posts and can't find that reference. Are you backdooring or shawdowing her?
> 
> I would love to know where she is posting so I can make sure she is okay. She is not online, so can't PM. I am really worried about her, and want to know she is physically okay.


Off2knit - Please read my post on page before this one concerning Epilepsy. Yarnlady has got to stop blaming Epilepsy for her outbursts. She should see a doctor if she can't control herself and get the help she needs. Epilepsy or Epilepsy with Aphasia does not cause the behavior she exhibited. You are not helping her by defending her behavior only enabling it. If you are truly a friend encourage her to get medical help and stay away from KP for a while to relieve her stress. She is bringing this on herself not the people out here. She needs a little help from her friends and needs to stop being nasty.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Of course it does.


Not according to some. If you do criticize obama than you are, by default, a racist or bigot.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I would like to go on record to say "omnipotent" and "omnipresent" can be used without any reference to God at all.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Off2knit - Please read my post on page before this one concerning Epilepsy. Yarnlady has got to stop blaming Epilepsy for her outbursts. She should see a doctor if she can't control herself and get the help she needs. Epilepsy or Epilepsy with Aphasia does not cause the behavior she exhibited. You are not helping her by defending her behavior only enabling it. If you are truly a friend encourage her to get medical help and stay away from KP for a while to relieve her stress. She is bringing this on herself not the people out here. She needs a little help from her friends and needs to stop being nasty.


Cheeky I do not need your condescending advice on how to be her friend. I did not enable her behavior. Show me where I once encouraged her to keep up her stressed posts. I was not on line when all of this happened. She did not bring this on all by herself. Many of you kept prodded at her until she broke. So she knows she went overboard. But your constant comments; justification of your attacks; only proves to me that you are trying to blame her for her outbursts is nothing but a veil of guilt on all of your parts.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Cheeky I do not need your condescending advice on how to be her friend. I did not enable her behavior. Show me where I once encouraged her to keep up her stressed posts. I was not on line when all of this happened. She did not bring this on all by herself. Many of you kept prodded at her until she broke. So she knows she went overboard. But your constant comments; justification of your attacks; only proves to me that you are trying to blame her for her outbursts is nothing but a veil of guilt on all of your parts.


It is important to remember that everyone on this thread has been subjected to mean-spirited, nasty remmarks.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> But that did not happen. It was you that started the whole thing with your comment. But then Alecmon doesn't think bullying and horrible comments matter because it was in the past and it's a new day.


Are you talking about me?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Sad but true


Would someone please tell me who that picture is supposed to be?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Well, folks, I have to admit to being an old fool. Yarnie really got me good. Maybe some of you have had the same experience since Friday night's big brawl. Yarnie is alive and well and has posted a fairly smug series of remarks about our memorable Friday night with her. Someone took pity on me and told me what was going on. 

I didn't have the whole story because Yarnie just told it on another site a couple of hours ago. I apologize to any and all of you I may have taken to task about how you treated Yarnie.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

The Anointed One


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> LOL! I totally understand!


Thanks - you've made me feel better.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Cheeky I do not need your condescending advice on how to be her friend. I did not enable her behavior. Show me where I once encouraged her to keep up her stressed posts. I was not on line when all of this happened. She did not bring this on all by herself. Many of you kept prodded at her until she broke. So she knows she went overboard. But your constant comments; justification of your attacks; only proves to me that you are trying to blame her for her outbursts is nothing but a veil of guilt on all of your parts.


I am not condescending I just know what I am talking about.
She "broke" herself. Nobody "broke" her. I have no veil of guilt. She decides to come out here and get nasty and you and others encourage her instead of helping her. As I said you are enablers and that does not help Yarnlady. Do you understand Epilepsy? I think not or you would not say any one caused your friends problems. She brings it upon herself and you sure aren't helping her.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> http://nation.foxnews.com/religion/2013/04/05/us-army-labeled-evangelicals-catholics-examples-religious-extremism?intcmp=fly
> 
> Get over the fact that it is from Fox, how do all you Christians and Catholics like being labeled terrorist?


You know what? Considering the source, Janet Napolitano, I really don't give a rat's behind. I know who and what I am.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Well, folks, I have to admit to being an old fool. Yarnie really got me good. Maybe some of you have had the same experience since Friday night's big brawl. Yarnie is alive and well and has posted a fairly smug series of remarks about our memorable Friday night with her. Someone took pity on me and told me what was going on.
> 
> I didn't have the whole story because Yarnie just told it on another site a couple of hours ago. I apologize to any and all of you I may have taken to task about how you treated Yarnie.


So you are shawdowing and backdooring her? Who told you? What thread? What site? Please document so that I can find her and wish her well.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Not according to some. If you do criticize obama than you are, by default, a racist or bigot.


Not default, faulty reasoning. I would have to use a racial slur or make a bigoted remark when criticizing Obama to qualify as a racist or bigot.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am tired of people using Epilepsy as an excuse for Yarnladie's behavior. As I said on an earlier page I have Epilepsy as do others in my family and the behavior she shows is not caused by this disease. I resent very much that Yarnlady and her friends keep using this. It is a disservice to me and to everyone who has Epilepsy. I also said that if I showed that kind of behavior to my Neurologist he would have me checked for a brain tumor, stroke or mental disorder. I hope Yarnlady can get the medical help she may need. If she gets so upset out here she should take a break from it and try to relax. Being extremely stressed can cause a seizure but it does not cause one to lash out and make nasty comments, anger does and we all need to control ours including Yarnlady. Having Epilepsy is no treat, but it never justifys being rude and having to get even with others as she mentions in some posts. Written by one who knows.


You may just be missing something about the situation. That may not be the kind of epilepsy YOU have, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course we should never be rude on purpose. I don't see you chastising people WITHOUT epilepsy who have been rude - and unapologetic about it. Good grief - they're the ones who especially shouldn't be rude.

I can't believe I responded to this post by Co....er Cheeky.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> So you are shawdowing and backdooring her? Who told you? What thread? What site? Please document so that I can find her and wish her well.


I didn't "shadow" or "backdoor" Yarnie. Someone took pity on me and let me know what was what. That person will probably read these words and share the source about Yarnie if that seems appropriate. PM Yarnie here. She'll probably be back eventually, anyway. Suffice it to say, Yarnie's behavior Friday night had nothing to do with any of the reasons any of you put forward.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

By the way, Cheeky, I'm tired of people pounding others because of their beliefs and opinions. I"m tired of people telling others off. Would you ever do that in your "real life?" Do you chew people out? Because that's just not acceptable behavior in polite company.............Oh - I just realized who you are. 

Oh my gosh. This communication is ended. Never mind.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Sad but true, but for those of you bash Bush, justify this


What is wrong with this? I see a young man smoking a cigarette or a joint who grew up to be the President of the United States? I don't have a problem with this. Did it myself back in my college days as did President Obama and I enjoyed it. Lots of young people do these things and like myself and President Obama we turned out just fine. Alcohol and other drugs will do a lot more damage to you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> By the way, Cheeky, I'm tired of people pounding others because of their beliefs and opinions. I"m tired of people telling others off. Would you ever do that in your "real life?" Do you chew people out? Because that's just not acceptable behavior in polite company.............Oh - I just realized who you are.
> 
> Oh my gosh. This communication is ended. Never mind.


Yes, Bonnie what are you talking about? Please explain yourself. Who did I pound? Thank you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What is wrong with this? I see a young man smoking a cigarette or a joint who grew up to be the President of the United States? I don't have a problem with this. Did it myself back in my college days as did President Obama and I enjoyed it. Lots of young people do these things and like myself and President Obama we turned out just fine. Alcohol and other drugs will do a lot more damage to you.


You turned out fine? You're awfully angry and hostile. Maybe you need another snort.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, Bonnie what are you talking about? Please explain yourself. Who did I pound? Thank you.


As far as I know you just appeared recently. The word "people" does not apply to you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You may just be missing something about the situation. That may not be the kind of epilepsy YOU have, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course we should never be rude on purpose. I don't see you chastising people WITHOUT epilepsy who have been rude - and unapologetic about it. Good grief - they're the ones who especially shouldn't be rude.
> 
> I do know for a fact that there is no such form of Epilepsy that causes the behavior Yarnlady exhibits out here. Educate yourself, madame. There are numerous sources on the internet that are very helpful. Anyone out here exhibiting nasty behavior is being rude including Yarnlady . I can truly understand the problems of Epilepsy and yes there are many varietys but she and you seem to be hiding behind a veil not me. Thank you very much. I am trying to appeal to your sense of reasonableness and I will say no more on this subject.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> The Anointed One


George Bush?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Just watch me refuse to respond to Cheeky Blight's posts. I am determined not to take the bait. Been there, done that - not good.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> George Bush?


Must be a joke. Has to be a joke.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Please, please, let's not have another Friday Night Bash'em Up. Please. Wouldn't it be nice to be nice? I'll try it if you all will. Wouldn't it be fun to have an open-minded about something in the real world?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> As far as I know you just appeared recently. The word "people" does not apply to you.


Bonnie I thought you were one of the "good guys". Why so "nasty"? Did I step on your toe or something?

:roll:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My two cents worth:
Is there anyone on this thread who has been exceedingly kind to everyone else? This is ridiculous. Bashing someone or other goes on every single day. I have probably bashed and I have been bashed. Snarkiness seems to be the general tone. Turning the other cheek works for awhile, but then one is perceived as being weak, so it's OK to bully that person. In fact, the majority ruled here for a long time because there were just a few voices who are liberals or progressives or heck, even Democrats. We were beaten down and made fun of at every turn. When that wasn't happening, the Obama and family or Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi were always being ridiculed. The minority was bullied all over the place. Now there are a few more voices from the Left, and suddenly we are all evil people who like nothing better than beating up on defenseless people with disabilities or physical conditions or whatever. I'm 72 years old. Do I deserve respect from all you whipper-snappers because I'm a senior citizen? Must you all start respecting your elders? I've had to fight back from being bullied or made fun of more than once. If I don't like it I can speak my mind or go away for a rest or quit posting and reading because that's how this thread works. Everyone who's "nice" is on one side and the rest of us are stupid, idiot evil people according to some of you.
If we all agree to stop the snide remarks I'll abide by the rules, but if we want a free-for-all, we have to accept the fall-out.
End of Epistle, and no, I don't think I'm an apostle so hold the comments.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You may just be missing something about the situation. That may not be the kind of epilepsy YOU have, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Of course we should never be rude on purpose. I don't see you chastising people WITHOUT epilepsy who have been rude - and unapologetic about it. Good grief - they're the ones who especially shouldn't be rude.
> 
> I can't believe I responded to this post by Co....er Cheeky.


Me either, Bonnie. I'm not even human after all. :hunf:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You know what? Considering the source, Janet Napolitano, I really don't give a rat's behind. I know who and what I am.


Was Janet Napolitano the source? I didn't see her name in the link.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I am fine with being nice and getting along. What should we discuss this evening? Topics please, no bashing zone.  Old Blighters never die they just fade away. I'll be back soon! I know you will miss me. :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am fine with being nice and getting along. What should we discuss this evening? Topics please, no bashing zone.  Old Blighters never die they just fade away. I'll be back soon! I know you will miss me. :thumbup:


Same sex marriage? :idea: :shock:  ;-)


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> How many times must we be reminded not to put people in categories?! Just because I'm pro-life doesn't mean I'm a knee-jerk anything. My views on helping the poor have nothing to do with politics. There are many organizations out there trying very hard to help pregnant mothers and their babies. There are individuals doing what they can to help by donating clothes, helping at clinics, volunteering at parenting classes. You don't have be be a socialist to want to help people.
> 
> This statement of people wanting all these babies born into poverty gets us nowhere. Just because I think abortion is wrong doesn't mean I want babies born into poverty. That just doesn't even make sense. Do you really think that I should adopt all the babies to prevent them being aborted? Well, guess what - there are places that do take in those babies. And there are people who would love to adopt them. I'm 68 - that is certainly not the way I help this cause.
> 
> Please stop stereotyping. Your saying that I want babies born into poverty is as unreliable a statement as my saying that you want to take my money for yourself. Can't we please look at these situations realistically?


I am curious about your views of socialism. Did you spend the late sixties or early seventies (or any time) in a socialist cell?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Sad but true, but for those of you bash Bush, justify this


Who is that?


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I didn't "shadow" or "backdoor" Yarnie. Someone took pity on me and let me know what was what. That person will probably read these words and share the source about Yarnie if that seems appropriate. PM Yarnie here. She'll probably be back eventually, anyway. Suffice it to say, Yarnie's behavior Friday night had nothing to do with any of the reasons any of you put forward.


Who took pity on you, you poor victim ? Where is that site? Is it some super secret website that you need to have a secret handshake to be on? If it is a public site what are you afraid of..................the truth? Until that is known, most of us will consider you a fibber because most will think it was you. Just like all the threats thrown around about Patriotic Duty and reporting people to the FBI. Snort pathetic


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Not default, faulty reasoning. I would have to use a racial slur or make a bigoted remark when criticizing Obama to qualify as a racist or bigot.


Not according to some here.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am fine with being nice and getting along. What should we discuss this evening? Topics please, no bashing zone.  Old Blighters never die they just fade away. I'll be back soon! I know you will miss me. :thumbup:


How about something relatively neutral such as The Goodwife and which character is our favorite and why?????


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> My two cents worth:
> Is there anyone on this thread who has been exceedingly kind to everyone else? This is ridiculous. Bashing someone or other goes on every single day. I have probably bashed and I have been bashed. Snarkiness seems to be the general tone. Turning the other cheek works for awhile, but then one is perceived as being weak, so it's OK to bully that person. In fact, the majority ruled here for a long time because there were just a few voices who are liberals or progressives or heck, even Democrats. We were beaten down and made fun of at every turn. When that wasn't happening, the Obama and family or Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi were always being ridiculed. The minority was bullied all over the place. Now there are a few more voices from the Left, and suddenly we are all evil people who like nothing better than beating up on defenseless people with disabilities or physical conditions or whatever. I'm 72 years old. Do I deserve respect from all you whipper-snappers because I'm a senior citizen? Must you all start respecting your elders? I've had to fight back from being bullied or made fun of more than once. If I don't like it I can speak my mind or go away for a rest or quit posting and reading because that's how this thread works. Everyone who's "nice" is on one side and the rest of us are stupid, idiot evil people according to some of you.
> If we all agree to stop the snide remarks I'll abide by the rules, but if we want a free-for-all, we have to accept the fall-out.
> End of Epistle, and no, I don't think I'm an apostle so hold the comments.


Yes, you have my respect because you are a person. I'm 68, so we're close in age. Everyone sounds young on here, but I think there are a lot of feisty senior citizens around who are just young at heart! Sometimes we're a little too young and slip into our middle school ways. We need a parent figure to shake a finger at us and make us mind! Nobody's old enough to do it!!! So we have to monitor ourselves. Not workin' too well right now. But hey, we didn't get to this age by being lazy - we'll never give up! We will find our better selves somehow, somewhere. I just know it!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Was Janet Napolitano the source? I didn't see her name in the link.


I didn't look - don't know. There was a terrorism list that came from Homeland Security before, so I figured this was an update. Just happy to be included. ???? :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## Zelana (May 5, 2012)

How about discussing this article from the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21610385

"US President Barack Obama has said: "The greatest nation on Earth can't keep on conducting its business drifting from one crisis to the next."

But it does. How did it get to this point?

It makes me think of those gruesome and rather unbelievable fairy tales.

Two brothers, the sort of brothers who hate each other very much, together own a farm and an estate.

They agree the land no longer flows with as much milk and honey as it once did, so they agree something must be done.

But they argue furiously about what that should be. One wants to raise rents on the richer tenants and spend the gold on gleaming new farm buildings and prize cattle.

The other brother grumbles that all these fancy projects caused the decline of milk and honey in the first place, along with free geese given to the growing band of widows, orphans and retired retainers.

They cannot agree. They must agree. So they make a dreadful pact. If by midnight in a year's time they have not found common ground, they will both make a horrible sacrifice.

The infant son of one brother will have an arm chopped off, while the other's baby daughter will forfeit a leg. To make sure this awful promise is kept the children are sent to live with a wicked witch in the woods.

Kicking the can
This, of course, is where such tales are rather unconvincing.

For no-one would really take that sort of risk in real life. Not unless they were American politicians.

President Obama has urged American voters to tell their congressmen they must make a deal
In our story, at midnight the brothers delayed the deal for eight more moons. But even granted another two months' grace after that they are now at the kitchen table, backs to each other, arms folded, only turning around to shout the occasional insult, apparently not over-worried by the fate of their children.

The real world pact was the 2011 Budget Control Act, voted for by Congress.

Many Republicans say the idea for the "sequester" budget cuts was President Obama's in the first place. The White House rejects that.

Whoever came up with the idea, the 2011 law meant failure to agree would cut both cherished Democratic programmes that helped the poor and defence spending beloved of Republicans.

Agreement should have come through the bipartisan Simpson-Bowles committee, which did indeed come up with a truly bipartisan plan.

It was so bipartisan that partisan members of the committee - and the president - refused to back it.

After that, it was up to Congress to find agreement. That was never going to happen before the election.

These cuts were one half of the "fiscal cliff" that loomed at the end of last year.

Congress struck a new year's deal that averted automatic taxes rises, but merely kicked this particular can down the road until 1 March 2013. On Friday we reach that can.

Government by crisis
Could they give it another kick? Yes, but Republicans would see that as just putting the problem off and giving the president a limited victory.

Some conservatives think at least this plan does make cuts, even if they are not the ones they like best.

It is now a question of who blinks first.

The president is highlighting the dire consequences - some accuse him of scaremongering - and is urging people to press Congress to make a deal.

He knows the plan is already causing splits among Republicans.

His long term strategy must be to define the Republican brand, already damaged and defeated, as the cause of dysfunctional government.

There is still more of this to come - the budget funding the government runs out at the end of March.

There is seemingly no end to this toxic tale of cruel dismemberment and government by crisis."


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Same sex marriage? :idea: :shock:  ;-)


IMHO, not under the perview of the government.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Who took pity on you, you poor victim ? Where is that site? Is it some super secret website that you need to have a secret handshake to be on? If it is a public site what are you afraid of..................the truth? Until that is known, most of us will consider you a fibber because most will think it was you. Just like all the threats thrown around about Patriotic Duty and reporting people to the FBI. Snort pathetic


Truer words never spoken as long as you, Off2Knit, are facing a mirror when you say them. Shame on you! Several of Yarnie's friends were in touch with her immediately after Friday night's debacle, and it's hard for me to believe that the Queen Empress was not informed of this fact. Yet you chose to say nothing and let others on both the left and the right worry endlessly about Yarnie's welfare. How long would it have taken the QE and her court to get around to telling anyone that the lady in question was just fine if I hadn't spoken up? Was it some all just a game to you watching SS and others fret and worry over someone they believed was at great risk?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

tick tock, 

I still want to know what site Yarnie has posted on. What are you all afraid of?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> tick tock,
> 
> I still want to know what site Yarnie has posted on. What are you all afraid of?


It isn't hers to tell.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Truer words never spoken as long as you, Off2Knit, are facing a mirror when you say them. Shame on you! Several of Yarnie's friends were in touch with her immediately after Friday night's debacle, and it's hard for me to believe that the Queen Empress was not among them. Yet they chose to say nothing and let others on both the left and the right worry endlessly about Yarnie's welfare. How long would it have taken the QE and her court to get around to telling anyone that the lady in question was just fine if I hadn't spoken up? Was it some all just a game to you watching SS and others fret and worry over someone they believed was at great risk?


Oh dear a break in the truce already. I know it is hard for you to believe the truth, but I was not on Friday night. As I had posted earlier when I read the 5 - 10 page blood bath on Saturday morning, I was in Ohio helping my parents. I would not be so rude as to not be with them during my visit. They are in their 80's and I spend every minute I can with them when I am there. It is called honoring your parents. If I had been on line, I would have PM'd Yarnie and talked to her. But unlike you and your savage pack of wild dogs, we do not all respond as a pack, we have lives, and we care about each other. For you to accuse me of not helping my friend, ignoring her stress brought on by you and your wolf pack, and letting her continue to spiral into a medical crisis just proves to me how truly cruel you are. How proud you must feel with your righteous indignation, accusing people of such falsehoods.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Their "mental health" clinic is one of conversion therapy to "change" gay people.


Hasn't her family's farm gotten millions in federal subsidies?

Karen N.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> It isn't hers to tell.


She mentioned it, or none of us would have heard about it. I think that it is called, opening the door.

Again I ask: Where is the site? Who told you? When did they tell you? And what are you so afraid of?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Truer words never spoken as long as you, Off2Knit, are facing a mirror when you say them. Shame on you! Several of Yarnie's friends were in touch with her immediately after Friday night's debacle, and it's hard for me to believe that the Queen Empress was not informed of this fact. Yet you chose to say nothing and let others on both the left and the right worry endlessly about Yarnie's welfare. How long would it have taken the QE and her court to get around to telling anyone that the lady in question was just fine if I hadn't spoken up? Was it some all just a game to you watching SS and others fret and worry over someone they believed was at great risk?


Susan I am all about the truth. Truth is you are a trouble maker. All you have done is try to make us fight. You like to start trouble and turn everyone against each other. So sad.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> She mentioned it, or none of us would have heard about it. I think that it is called, opening the door.
> 
> Again I ask: Where is the site? Who told you? When did they tell you? And what are you so afraid of?


After watching you play a starring role in Yarnie's little show I think it should be obvious why folks don't trust you with even the smallest nugget of information.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Al, wouldn't it be great if everyone here agreed to disagree and stopped the bash festivals? Ah, me, I'm just endlessly hopeful.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan I am all about the truth. Truth is you are a trouble maker. All you have done is try to make us fight. You like to start trouble and turn everyone against each other. So sad.


I agree, Suzi please PM me like you did for Seattle with the site you both are mentioning? The truth will set you free


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Same sex marriage? :idea: :shock:  ;-)


I'm for it because marriage is one of the things that shows a person takes things seriously and wants to be a constructive, legitimate member of society. I believe the more people who feel they are part of legitimate society, the stronger that society will be.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I agree, Suzi please PM me like you did for Seattle with the site you both are mentioning? The truth will set you free


You know perfectly well, so don't waste your time asking again.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm for it because marriage is one of the things that shows a person takes things seriously and wants to be a constructive, legitimate member of society. I believe the more people who feel they are part of legitimate society, the stronger that society will be.


I believe the truth makes a society stronger. What site were you talking about, so I can check on Yarnie?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> Who took pity on you, you poor victim ? Where is that site? Is it some super secret website that you need to have a secret handshake to be on? If it is a public site what are you afraid of..................the truth? Until that is known, most of us will consider you a fibber because most will think it was you. Just like all the threats thrown around about Patriotic Duty and reporting people to the FBI. Snort pathetic


If I don't think I should tell you something, you'll just have to live with it. If you and anyone else wants to think of me as a fibber, so be it. As for Patriotic Duty and making reports to the FBI, I'm afraid you've mistaken me for someone else.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm for it because marriage is one of the things that shows a person takes things seriously and wants to be a constructive, legitimate member of society. I believe the more people who feel they are part of legitimate society, the stronger that society will be.


So you include same sex marriages ..yes


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

But you did exchange PM's about it. So what are you afraid of? I think you were shawdowing and that is a Bozo no no. That is the only reason you won't answer the question about the other site.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I agree, Suzi please PM me like you did for Seattle with the site you both are mentioning? The truth will set you free


I'm already free and I haven't been afraid of much since I fought off a guy with a knife who wanted access to my private parts without my permission. And that was in 1968. I could kick pretty darn hard and could I run like the wind.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

By hiding the truth, how can one be truly free?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Also in the news, I just read that the number of military retirees and their dependents outnumber the active duty military and their dependents. 5.5 million to 3.3 million. Now I understand why the Pentagon is proposing a military benefit reduction. I did not realize the number is so large.


We should support them instead of those who are in this country illegally! My nephew retired after serving in the Airforce being shot at a lot of times in the Apache Helicopter so I feel he earned every dollar of his retirement pay. It is not enough to support his household so he is still working.

Another nephew will retire this year after flying the F-16 again and again defending our freedom. He also will have to work in the private sector.

My third nephew retired from the Marines as a young man of 45, but he is completely white headed! He will also have to work in the private sector.

All vets put their lives on the line for us so they deserve every penny they get from our government.

Maybe the WH people could refrain from taking so many vacations instead of cutting the retired military pensions!

A million dollars for poor old Joe to spend a weekend in Paris is too much.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I believe the truth makes a society stronger. What site were you talking about, so I can check on Yarnie?


You are perfectly free to send a PM to Yarnlady. Or address her here. She can see what you have to say.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


Love the socks and maybe even love the dog. The dog from hell would fit right in here on our little forum.
We had a diarrhea outburst with one of ours (dog) over the weekend. I knew something was wrong as soon as I hit the stairs! What fun that clean up job was!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> We should support them instead of those who are in this country illegally! My nephew retired after serving in the Airforce being shot at a lot of times in the Apache Helicopter so I feel he earned every dollar of his retirement pay. It is not enough to support his household so he is still working.
> 
> Another nephew will retire this year after flying the F-16 again and again defending our freedom. He also will have to work in the private sector.
> 
> ...


Janeway,

As no one on this site holds back, I will continue the "tradition" and say:
I grew up on military bases. My mother was a WAC, father retired from the Air Force, a brother in the Marines in the middle sixties, one in the air force during same period, and a much younger brother served in South Korea along the DMZ. Me I went to anti war rallies.
I do not feel anyone in the military presently or back before the Civil War is protecting my freedoms. Before anyone out there calls me unpatriotic, I say one woman's patriotism is another woman's sense of unexamined alternative views. 
Now, with that said, I think it is sad beyond belief that men and women coming home with disabilities, emotional/mental issues etc are not properly taken care of. Everyone, regardless of their job deserves appropriate health care and if these men and women are promised benifits they should recieve them.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


The hound from hell looks beautiful. Does s/he hunt with you or sons, daughters etc? I had a wonderful chocolate lab that was a great dog to use while hunting pheasant and ducks. 
Scary, a progressive socialist with a shotgun huh?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You are perfectly free to send a PM to Yarnlady. Or address her here. She can see what you have to say.


I have not heard from Yarnie since that horrible night the lefties ganging up on her. She did PM me that someone reported her that night. So that person knows who they are and I won't rest until it comes to light who reported her as several of the rat pack did indeed gang up on her as well as me about the oxygen machine!

Yarnie and I were the only ones on that horrible night that was full of hateful remarks! It still is in black and white print so stop denying the facts!

The truth will set you free! Don't be shy tell the whole truth!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Love the socks and maybe even love the dog. The dog from hell would fit right in here on our little forum.
> We had a diarrhea outburst with one of ours (dog) over the weekend. I knew something was wrong as soon as I hit the stairs! What fun that clean up job was!


LOL. Know that, too. Our other dogs are 13. The "dog from hell" is our youngests dog. He's a Lt. in the Army and, growing up, has always had a dog. He got a puppy and didn't realize how much time needed to be put into them. He wants the dog back so we are filling in.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Janeway,
> 
> As no one on this site holds back, I will continue the "tradition" and say:
> I grew up on military bases. My mother was a WAC, father retired from the Air Force, a brother in the Marines in the middle sixties, one in the air force during same period, and a much younger brother served in South Korea along the DMZ. Me I went to anti war rallies.
> ...


Well, I am sorry you feel those who are fighting for you are not fighting for our freedom! I do not understand your thinking especially with so many in your family in the military.

What do you believe they they fought for! Please explain!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So you include same sex marriages ..yes


I believe it is a civil right to be able to marry the person you love and I totally support the GLBT community in making that their right to chose just like I got to marry the person I love. They should have all the rights and responsibilities the same as a man married to a woman. They have been denied this very basic right and yes it is the government's responsibility to see that all Americans have this right. Since I also believe in separation of church and state I believe that it is up to individual religions to decide if they will marry same sex couples. I and my spouse were married by an Episcopal priest, who is a Lesbian but we could not be married in the church proper and the ceremony was at my MIL's.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The hound from hell looks beautiful. Does s/he hunt with you or sons, daughters etc? I had a wonderful chocolate lab that was a great dog to use while hunting pheasant and ducks.
> Scary, a progressive socialist with a shotgun huh?


peacegoddess I can totally identify with you. I find it funny how so many think people like us don't exist. I shouldn't be surprised as I believe it was, bonnie said she doesn't believe I am human. I don't know if I should be hurt or happy when I consider the source. :lol:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


Nice socks, thumper!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, I am sorry you feel those who are fighting for you are not fighting for our freedom! I do not understand your thinking especially with so many in your family in the military.
> 
> What do you believe they they fought for! Please explain!


They are part of a military industrial complex that has over the years invaded numerous countries on the "stated"premise of defending the Jews..(.not, it was about military armaments and knowing our country would need oil) 
wanting to protect the South Vietnamese from Communism, and again about oil (Gulf Wars and Afghanistan) If we were helping the Jew, "queers", mentally disabled, and gypsies who Hitler were persecuting we would have done something diplomatically sooner. Vietnam, we wanted the natural resources and were afraid China would get them first. 
We were in Vietnam long before the sixties and took over from the French. Both Gulf wars....oil. I agree Osama binLaden was a dispicable person, but it was not the multitudes of young men and women over there who took binLaden down. We have done longtime damage to the young and successfully growing women's movement (check out RAWA) in Afghanistan by our military presence. Now I bet you might disagree.. make that probably, but there are many people who agree with me. They are not part of KP. The information is out there and availabe to anyone brave enough to explore the alternative to the military mind set. Which both Obama and the republicans cater to.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> peacegoddess I can totally identify with you. I find it funny how so many think people like us don't exist. I shouldn't be surprised as I believe it was, bonnie said she doesn't believe I am human. I don't know if I should be hurt or happy when I consider the source. :lol:


We are around, just that it is sometimes difficult to find one another. And we are very human..that is why we scare so many people with our humanist beliefs. Peace takes courage too.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nice socks, thumper!


So tell me about the hound. Oh and congrats on the grandchild!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


The hound looks sweet to me. My son has his brother. He is a black and tan Blood Hound. He is a house dog. Most unbehaved yet. He has the strength of a horse. Otis stays with Gramma when they go somewhere. I have tried to walk him and he pulls me all over the yard. He thinks he is a fish too. Jumps in the pool with head under the water and blows out bubbles of air. He has to hug you around the neck but knocks you down because he is so big and strong. But he does give good kisses. Don't really mind keeping him. Warm looking socks. Good job.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> They are part of a military industrial complex that has over the years invaded numerous countries on the "stated"premise of defending the Jews..(.not, it was about military armaments and knowing our country would need oil)
> wanting to protect the South Vietnamese from Communism, and again about oil (Gulf Wars and Afghanistan) If we were helping the Jew, "queers", mentally disabled, and gypsies who Hitler were persecuting we would have done something diplomatically sooner. Vietnam, we wanted the natural resources and were afraid China would get them first.
> We were in Vietnam long before the sixties and took over from the French. Both Gulf wars....oil. I agree Osama binLaden was a dispicable person, but it was not the multitudes of young men and women over there who took binLaden down. We have done longtime damage to the young and successfully growing women's movement (check out RAWA) in Afghanistan by our military presence. Now I bet you might disagree.. make that probably, but there are many people who agree with me. They are not part of KP. The information is out there and availabe to anyone brave enough to explore the alternative to the military mind set. Which both Obama and the republicans cater to.


Our son was in the Middle East and even though he was in the U.S. Army he considered himself and his fellow soldiers as mercenaries. They all received huge medals from the government of Saudi Arabia and a big check from the Saudi government which upon their return to the U.S. they had to turn over to the U.S. government as "they could not accept money from a foreign power". They did get to keep the medals. Now isn't that special? So what were we over there for that was such a noble cause? That was Desert Storm. Does oil cartel ring a bell and I do remember the Bush's giving big hugs to the Saudi princes. Yes the Bush family also members of the cartel. So who's freedom were we fighting for then?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> They are part of a military industrial complex that has over the years invaded numerous countries on the "stated"premise of defending the Jews..(.not, it was about military armaments and knowing our country would need oil)
> wanting to protect the South Vietnamese from Communism, and again about oil (Gulf Wars and Afghanistan) If we were helping the Jew, "queers", mentally disabled, and gypsies who Hitler were persecuting we would have done something diplomatically sooner. Vietnam, we wanted the natural resources and were afraid China would get them first.
> We were in Vietnam long before the sixties and took over from the French. Both Gulf wars....oil. I agree Osama binLaden was a dispicable person, but it was not the multitudes of young men and women over there who took binLaden down. We have done longtime damage to the young and successfully growing women's movement (check out RAWA) in Afghanistan by our military presence. Now I bet you might disagree.. make that probably, but there are many people who agree with me. They are not part of KP. The information is out there and availabe to anyone brave enough to explore the alternative to the military mind set. Which both Obama and the republicans cater to.


Well, I do disagree but am not going to argue with you on the subject as obviously we won't change each others mind set on this subject.

I'm thinking you probably protested the Vietnam war. One of my friends lost her only son in that war but she believed we had a right to be there.

What wars did your family fight in? Do you feel we could have tongue lashed that country instead of taking military action?

What is your solution to N. Korea's threats to America? This will be interesting to read!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Our son was in the Middle East and even though he was in the U.S. Army he considered himself and his fellow soldiers as mercenaries. They all received huge medals from the government of Saudi Arabia and a big check from the Saudi government which upon their return to the U.S. they had to turn over to the U.S. government as "they could not accept money from a foreign power". They did get to keep the medals. Now isn't that special? So what were we over there for that was such a noble cause? That was Desert Storm. Does oil cartel ring a bell and I do remember the Bush's giving big hugs to the Saudi princes. Yes the Bush family also members of the cartel. So who's freedom were we fighting for then?


Yours and mine!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> The hound from hell looks beautiful. Does s/he hunt with you or sons, daughters etc? I had a wonderful chocolate lab that was a great dog to use while hunting pheasant and ducks.
> Scary, a progressive socialist with a shotgun huh?


Yeah, no kidding. He is beautiful. However, just as in real life, pretty is, is not as pretty does. He is very strong willed and I have the wounds to prove it. To compound his natural pack order programming he does not view me (that's me personally) as alpha to his omega at this point. I'm tired of the wounds (they are not minor). However, I will beat him within an inch of his life to impress upon him that I am over him in the pack. At this point the only alternative is to put him down. HE'S A DOG!! I can get another one.

The hound from hell will be trained for hunting. Not always a pleasant process.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway - I will always support our troops. Member's of my family have served in every war up to the current ones but I have not always believed in the reasons we were involved in wars since the Korean War. I believe in defending the country and taking care of our soldiers when they return home. Too many times we have gotten involved only to protect our own self interests or the interests of our corporations especially big oil. Now we are after mineral rights and other exhaustible natural resources. We have no problem saying we are fighting for freedom or bringing democracy when all we are doing is stealing what we want.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I believe it is a civil right to be able to marry the person you love and I totally support the GLBT community in making that their right to chose just like I got to marry the person I love. They should have all the rights and responsibilities the same as a man married to a woman. They have been denied this very basic right and yes it is the government's responsibility to see that all Americans have this right. Since I also believe in separation of church and state I believe that it is up to individual religions to decide if they will marry same sex couples. I and my spouse were married by an Episcopal priest, who is a Lesbian but we could not be married in the church proper and the ceremony was at my MIL's.


I just believe in equality. Everyone should have all the rights every other American has. My oldest adopted daughter, was a homosexual. Several years ago he was so depressed and miserable, he committed suicide. I still grieve for him


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


Nice socks! Are they difficult to make? I don't have dogs because I'm not strong enough to take care of them. I have a 15 year old cat Lou Lou who has cancer on her nose, but vet won't take it off as says she won't survive the surgery. When she is gone, I won't have any more pets!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I just believe in equality. Everyone should have all the rights every other American has. My oldest adopted daughter, was a homosexual. Several years ago he was so depressed and miserable, he committed suicide. I still grieve for him


That is sad. Sorry. Do you mean she was depressed? Or you talking about your son committed suicide? I am not clear of what you are saying.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Zelana said:


> How about discussing this article from the BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-21610385
> 
> "US President Barack Obama has said: "The greatest nation on Earth can't keep on conducting its business drifting from one crisis to the next."
> 
> ...


No end that I can see. To borrow not a fairy tale, but a truth:
"United we stand. Divided we fall." The plan?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I just believe in equality. Everyone should have all the rights every other American has. My oldest adopted daughter, was a homosexual. Several years ago he was so depressed and miserable, he committed suicide. I still grieve for him


Cheeky, are you gay? Rocky, was your adopted child a woman or a man I'm confused?

Love may be blind, but folks if you want little chickens, you must have a rooster and a hen! Enough said!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, I do disagree but am not going to argue with you on the subject as obviously we won't change each others mind set on this subject.
> 
> I'm thinking you probably protested the Vietnam war. One of my friends lost her only son in that war but she believed we had a right to be there.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Hasn't her family's farm gotten millions in federal subsidies?
> 
> Karen N.


Yes the Bachmanns bought up farm land and were paid subsidies to not plant anything. It's fine for her and her husband to take government money as it is perfectly legal so that makes it right in her book. No moral dilemma there.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I am not trying to change your mind..only you can do that if you choose to explore, in depth, other sources..Howard Zinn is a good beginning. So if my mother was a WAC you can surmise WWII same with father, two oldest brothers Vietnam, youngest brother no war, just in South Korea at the DMV. 

On the North Korean issue if you want a well informed alternative to Fox and other mainstream media Google democracy now and go to recent shows and choose Thursday April 4 and see the headline New era of nuclear armed... The article pretty much reflects my view.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes the Bachmanns bought up farm land and were paid subsidies to not plant anything. It's fine for her and her husband to take government money as it is perfectly legal so that makes it right in her book. No moral dilemma there.


Very interesting!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

If you'd like to learn a bit about how a seizure can contribute to our friend's posts, here is some information from the website WebMD - Epilepsy Health Center:

Take special note of 2.c. which could apply here.

Partial Seizures 
(Produced by a small area of the brain)	

1. Simple(awareness is retained)
a. Simple Motor
b. Simple Sensory
c. Simple Psychological	

2. Symptoms
a. doesn't apply
b. doesn't apply 
c. Memory or emotional disturbances


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Cheeky, are you gay? Rocky, was your adopted child a woman or a man I'm confused?
> 
> Love may be blind, but folks if you want little chickens, you must have a rooster and a hen! Enough said!


Have you heard about artificial insemination?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Monday, April 8, 2013

On Yom Hashoah

On this Yom Hashoah, we wanted to make sure you had a chance to see this statement from President Obama on the importance of remembering those who perished in the Holocaust as well as those who survived. He reflected on his recent visit to Yad Vashem and the moral imperative we all share to confront anti-Semitism, prejudice and intolerance wherever it may exist:

I join people here in the United States, in Israel, and around the world in observing Holocaust Remembrance Day. Today, we honor the memories of the six million Jewish victims and millions of others who perished in the darkness of the Shoah. As we reflect on the beautiful lives lost, and their great potential that would never be fulfilled, we also pay tribute to all those who resisted the Nazis heinous acts and all those who survived.

On my recent trip to Israel, I had the opportunity to visit Yad Vashem, Israels national Holocaust memorial, and reaffirm our collective responsibility to confront anti-Semitism, prejudice, and intolerance across the world. On this Yom Hashoah, we must accept the full responsibility of remembrance, as nations and as individualsnot simply to pledge never again, but to commit ourselves to the understanding, empathy and compassion that is the foundation of peace and human dignity.

Get Updates

Learn more about President Obama and the American Jewish community.


The White House  1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW  Washington, DC 20500  202-456-1111


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

So, sister correspondents, shall we tackle the Tar Sands?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bonnie - I am well aware of all this. This does not account for yarnladie's behavior. 2.c. Refers to a person saying inappropriate things or acting out inappropriate behavior. It does not apply to writing. Emotional disturbances are physical reactions. If you like I would be happy to call my Neurologist's office tomorrow and find out if it is possible and let you know.
Anything is possible.



bonbf3 said:


> If you'd like to learn a bit about how a seizure can contribute to our friend's posts, here is some information from the website WebMD - Epilepsy Health Center:
> 
> Take special note of 2.c. which could apply here.
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

As far as I know you just appeared recently. The word "people" does not apply to you.

bonbf3

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
Yes, Bonnie what are you talking about? Please explain yourself. Who did I pound? Thank you.

Bonnie - Who did I pound on and why do you say I am not human?
Thank you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi, Ladies
Isn't anyone watching the NCAA championship game?? It's terrific.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I just believe in equality. Everyone should have all the rights every other American has. My oldest adopted daughter, was a homosexual. Several years ago he was so depressed and miserable, he committed suicide. I still grieve for him


So sorry to here about your child, rocky. One of the reasons I feel so strongly about this issue is so many children have been bullied and beat up where I live that I had to get involved. These precious young people were leaving school and too many taking their own lives as your precious child did. We made national headlines because this had become such a serious issue. The school district had a policy to remain neutral and would not punish students who hurt their classmates. This district, not coincidently is in Ms. Bachmann's leg. district. and she has a lot of support just north of where I am. The good news is the national attention forced the school district to take action which still isn't strong enough but it is a step in the right direction. I also worked with the Vote No campaign and we won preventing a change to the wording of the state's constitution to read marriage is a union between one man and one woman which down the road would have made it virtually impossible to make same sex marriage legal in my state. Now we are taking the next step to give everyone the civil right's that all should have to marry who they love and along with it have all the rights and responsibilities that entails. I will be very happy when that day comes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried, I agree with you. We need an interesting topic. A bunch of mostly heterosexuals debating same sex marriage doesn't trip my trigger....oh~ gun control?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It could be a matter of boundaries. You share things with friends you would not share with strangers.



off2knit said:


> By hiding the truth, how can one be truly free?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Maybe, Ingried will join us. I have seen her around lately.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Maybe, Ingried will join us. I have seen her around lately.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> We are around, just that it is sometimes difficult to find one another. And we are very human..that is why we scare so many people with our humanist beliefs. Peace takes courage too.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Me too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I vote for Halliburton and friends. They got to keep the money.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Our son was in the Middle East and even though he was in the U.S. Army he considered himself and his fellow soldiers as mercenaries. They all received huge medals from the government of Saudi Arabia and a big check from the Saudi government which upon their return to the U.S. they had to turn over to the U.S. government as "they could not accept money from a foreign power". They did get to keep the medals. Now isn't that special? So what were we over there for that was such a noble cause? That was Desert Storm. Does oil cartel ring a bell and I do remember the Bush's giving big hugs to the Saudi princes. Yes the Bush family also members of the cartel. So who's freedom were we fighting for then?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

How about pay disparity of womwn's wages to men's? The Stubenville rape of a young woman. I can come up with tons of contoversy..


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This manner of training is not the best method and it makes me sad to hear of someone using it.



thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, no kidding. He is beautiful. However, just as in real life, pretty is, is not as pretty does. He is very strong willed and I have the wounds to prove it. To compound his natural pack order programming he does not view me (that's me personally) as alpha to his omega at this point. I'm tired of the wounds (they are not minor). However, I will beat him within an inch of his life to impress upon him that I am over him in the pack. At this point the only alternative is to put him down. HE'S A DOG!! I can get another one.
> 
> The hound from hell will be trained for hunting. Not always a pleasant process.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Me too.


What sock pattern did you use? Would you share it? Thanks.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


Cozy socks and cozy picture!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or scrambled eggs?



peacegoddess said:


> Have you heard about artificial insemination?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I'm getting tired so I will say good night to all of you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Peacegoddess, 

Lest you misunderstand due to Cheeky's confusion about this, I didn't include Cheeky Blight in the group of "people" I was talking about because she hadn't been writing on the pages I was talking about. So she wasn't included with those particular "people." 

I've never met her, but I'd bet money she IS human! 
Bonnie


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Peacegoddess,
> 
> Lest you misunderstand due to Cheeky's confusion about this, I didn't include Cheeky Blight in the group of "people" I was talking about because she hadn't been writing on the pages I was talking about. So she wasn't included with those particular "people."
> 
> ...


Hey it is all cool.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> This manner of training is not the best method and it makes me sad to hear of someone using it.


Thumper, that sounds kind of scary to me. Be careful with that naughty puppy!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Hey it is all cool.


Glad to hear it!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Cozy socks and cozy picture!


I made a vow to try socks sometime this year... think it is now?????????


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> So you include same sex marriages ..yes


Of course I do. As I said, the more people who believe they are part of the legitimate society, the stronger that society is. Seems pretty simple to me. Personally, I won't ever get married again. Once was one time too many and it didn't seem to have any impact on how much my husband and I loved each other. There are other things about my life that show I'm a member of legitimate society. I don't need to collect any more.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> I believe the truth makes a society stronger. What site were you talking about, so I can check on Yarnie?


I've long found it interesting that there can be many lies but truth is always a singular thing.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> But you did exchange PM's about it. So what are you afraid of? I think you were shawdowing and that is a Bozo no no. That is the only reason you won't answer the question about the other site.


For goodness sake, I don't even know what "shadowing" is. You seem to be stalking me here. Do you know what that is?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As a patriotic American and a long time pacifist I protested the illegal war in Viet Nam. But I didn't demonstrate against the young men who were being shipped over there to be cannon fodder. I saved my protestations for the people who had the power to send them there.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> So, sister correspondents, shall we tackle the Tar Sands?


20 years ago, when the price of a barrel of oil was a lot lower, it was considered useless to extract oil from the tar sands and oil shale as well, because it was too expensive. How times change. I'd like to see a lot better public transportation instead of all these cars with only one person in them wasting a resource that will eventually run out. Hopefully, there will always be old french fry oil.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> As a patriotic American and a long time pacifist I protested the illegal war in Viet Nam. But I didn't demonstrate against the young men who were being shipped over there to be cannon fodder. I saved my protestations for the people who had the power to send them there.


There is a difference and some do not understand that.. I must say though that I just really dislike recruiters. I am on a kick to avoid the "H" word.

Also there are a tremendous number of rapes occuring in todays military. Lots of things wrong with the military complex. The average kid and they are kids who enter the service does not have a real clue as to what is going on politically and how they are caught up in the drum beat.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, no kidding. He is beautiful. However, just as in real life, pretty is, is not as pretty does. He is very strong willed and I have the wounds to prove it. To compound his natural pack order programming he does not view me (that's me personally) as alpha to his omega at this point. I'm tired of the wounds (they are not minor). However, I will beat him within an inch of his life to impress upon him that I am over him in the pack. At this point the only alternative is to put him down. HE'S A DOG!! I can get another one.
> 
> The hound from hell will be trained for hunting. Not always a pleasant process.


Good grief! What kind of monster are you? Train and dominate that dog. Why didn't you start training this dog when he was a pup?It's a living being, not some tool that you can run out and replace because the one you had broke.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> 20 years ago, when the price of a barrel of oil was a lot lower, it was considered useless to extract oil from the tar sands and oil shale as well, because it was too expensive. How times change. I'd like to see a lot better public transportation instead of all these cars with only one person in them wasting a resource that will eventually run out. Hopefully, there will always be old french fry oil.


Until we have money invested inalternative transportation it will be really difficult to get folks out of their cars. I am 62 and have only owned 3 cars..and do not have one now.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Good grief! What kind of monster are you? Train and dominate that dog. Why didn't you start training this dog when he was a pup?It's a living being, not some tool that you can run out and replace because the one you had broke.


I just have to brag about the pizza I made this evening. Corn meal crust with pesto sauce then mozzerella and parmesian, asparagus and nettle. Yum!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Until we have money invested inalternative transportation it will be really difficult to get folks out of their cars. I am 62 and have only owned 3 wnecars..and do not have one now.


I'm 63 and have only owned one car (actually a '62 Suburban that looked like it wanted to be a Humvee...) and driven it for one year when the main part of the job I had at the time required a lot of outreach and home visits over a large, mostly rural area.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I just have to brag about the pizza I made this evening. Corn meal crust with pesto sauce then mozzerella and parmesian, asparagus and nettle. Yum!


What? No dog meat? No anchovies?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> What? No dog meat? No anchovies?


I do love anchovies, but none in the house. I like dogs alive.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm 63 and have only owned one car (actually a '62 Suburban that looked like it wanted to be a Humvee...) and driven it for one year when the main part of the job I had at the time required a lot of outreach and home visits over a large, mostly rural area.


Yea I know what you mean. The times I had cars was when I lived in rural areas without public transpotation. For the first 10 years of my daughter's life it was bicycle and buses and the we moved to Courtland, CA and I had to have one for work etc.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What sock pattern did you use? Would you share it? Thanks.


Hey Cheeky I thought you were retiring for the evening?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> For goodness sake, I don't even know what "shadowing" is. You seem to be stalking me here. Do you know what that is?


How does one stalk when reading a public forum and answering questions? Shawdowing, come on you are smart. But this lends me to ask the question again, what site did you visit so you could comment on Yarnie? But one must conclude you know what shawdowing is, or you would tell us the site.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We share views on Viet Nam War.



SeattleSoul said:


> As a patriotic American and a long time pacifist I protested the illegal war in Viet Nam. But I didn't demonstrate against the young men who were being shipped over there to be cannon fodder. I saved my protestations for the people who had the power to send them there.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh thank you SS. I was bothered by this comment last night. A dog wishes to please its master. What kind of master learns from beatings? I thought all people knew better now.



SeattleSoul said:


> Good grief! What kind of monster are you? Train and dominate that dog. Why didn't you start training this dog when he was a pup?It's a living being, not some tool that you can run out and replace because the one you had broke.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

What a wonderful day in Obamaville

Sung Kim the US Ambassador to South Korea blogs about how he is on vacation with his family in DC, how pretty the cherry blossoms are, and how he enjoyed Sushi the night before.

In Obamaville, despite the budget sequestration, they are spending 300K in Syria to study job growth

In Obamaville, because of sequestration, OBL's SIL can't be tried, budget cuts.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Good grief! What kind of monster are you? Train and dominate that dog. Why didn't you start training this dog when he was a pup?It's a living being, not some tool that you can run out and replace because the one you had broke.


He is our youngest son's pup. He didn't come to us until he was 9 months old. We have had dogs before and do very well with training. However, he is very strong willed and he does not like having things taken away from him that he wants. I will NOT tolerate being bitten.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Another day in Obamaville

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1326311-this-new-budget-proposal-may-limit-your-annual-retirement-income

So if you are 20 something and have 40 years to save money (savings accounts, CD, 401K's, investments) you will be punished for saving money.

If you save 200 dollars/month for 40 years you could have 240K. Now think if you add your 401K's with all the matching funds, you could easily reach a significant amount if you just don't touch it. It is not that out of reach for people to do that over their life time, especially if interest rates rise due to inflation.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

off2knit said:


> Another day in Obamaville
> 
> http://seekingalpha.com/article/1326311-this-new-budget-proposal-may-limit-your-annual-retirement-income
> 
> ...


Yes that is a great idea, but the average 20 year old is not earning enough to save $200 a month. Many coming out of college are living at home and struggling to repay student loans.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Oh thank you SS. I was bothered by this comment last night. A dog wishes to please its master. What kind of master learns from beatings? I thought all people knew better now.


I do know better and we are training him patiently. He is now the third dog in the house and, as I stated before I will not be bitten. I have my limits of what is acceptable in an animal and if I can't get near him to put him in his crate when he's behaving overly aggressive with the others in the house (human and canine) and not be bitten what would you have me do when he does bite me? I'm talking BITE, not nip. I am alpha to him. Not the other way around.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

damemary said:


> Oh thank you SS. I was bothered by this comment last night. A dog wishes to please its master. What kind of master learns from beatings? I thought all people knew better now.


I was just ruminating on some of the posts here and I wonder if some of us even live in the same reality as everyone else. Possibly I am over informed or over experienced because I get a sense of naivete from some peole.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I do know better and we are training him patiently. He is now the third dog in the house and, as I stated before I will not be bitten. I have my limits of what is acceptable in an animal and if I can't get near him to put him in his crate when he's behaving overly aggressive with the others in the house (human and canine) and not be bitten what would you have me do when he does bite me? I'm talking BITE, not nip. I am alpha to him. Not the other way around.


Do you think he needs a different owner/master/mistress?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> He is our youngest son's pup. He didn't come to us until he was 9 months old. We have had dogs before and do very well with training. However, he is very strong willed and he does not like having things taken away from him that he wants. I will NOT tolerate being bitten.


Unruly puppy - sort of reminds me of people who jumped all over you about the dog without actually knowing the whole story.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I do know better and we are training him patiently. He is now the third dog in the house and, as I stated before I will not be bitten. I have my limits of what is acceptable in an animal and if I can't get near him to put him in his crate when he's behaving overly aggressive with the others in the house (human and canine) and not be bitten what would you have me do when he does bite me? I'm talking BITE, not nip. I am alpha to him. Not the other way around.


Good luck.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I do know better and we are training him patiently. He is now the third dog in the house and, as I stated before I will not be bitten. I have my limits of what is acceptable in an animal and if I can't get near him to put him in his crate when he's behaving overly aggressive with the others in the house (human and canine) and not be bitten what would you have me do when he does bite me? I'm talking BITE, not nip. I am alpha to him. Not the other way around.


Another thought. Maybe he needs to be in a one dog home?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, no kidding. He is beautiful. However, just as in real life, pretty is, is not as pretty does. He is very strong willed and I have the wounds to prove it. To compound his natural pack order programming he does not view me (that's me personally) as alpha to his omega at this point. I'm tired of the wounds (they are not minor). However, I will beat him within an inch of his life to impress upon him that I am over him in the pack. At this point the only alternative is to put him down. HE'S A DOG!! I can get another one.
> 
> The hound from hell will be trained for hunting. Not always a pleasant process.


Your poor dog needs a new owner, or at the very least, a competent trainer.

Karen N.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I was just ruminating on some of the posts here and I wonder if some of us even live in the same reality as everyone else. Possibly I am over informed or over experienced because I get a sense of naivete from some peole.


I don't think several people on this site would know what the real world is if it hit them in the face. Try working hard on a farm where Mother Nature decides if you will have a profit or not with the weather. You can the vegetables you eat and grow chickens for meat and eggs and other animals for meat on the farm.

That is real life and believe me there were NO gay animals down on the farm as the animals are too smart for that stupid behavior.

Those of you who are for same sex couples just are not in the real world! Get your heads out of the sand!

Cheeky, I know who you are so why don't you answer the question I asked are you Gay as you referred to your partner as your spouse who could not get married in a church so a lesbian married you!

What a life if two people of the same sex try to have sex. What do two women use a dildo? I have been told what two men do as the rectum is not made for that usage and it breaks down so they have problems! Why would a body that has the same body parts be sexually interesting. That is sick, sick!

Same sex is where aids is spread, so it is a killer for sure. There is a man in my area who is bisexual where he got aids then continued to infect everyone he had sex with. Now, that he is in jail, he is a problem and has to be kept in isolation because he would again have sex with the other male inmates!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you think he needs a different owner/master/mistress?


I'm not sure that would make a difference. He just wants what he wants and a different master would not change the fact that he can't do whatever he wishes. He was the same way with our son.

He did go through puppy school so it's not as if he hasn't had training. We haven't beaten him even if the desire has been there. We are hoping that a little more maturity and, with spring being here, more time outside to run off his energy will help. If that doesn't help then the next thing on the list of things to try is neutering which we've never had to do to any of our male dogs. I've just never encountered this and am at a bit of a loss.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I don't believe in smacking animals to get them to obey, but dogs do need a firm hand and really have to understand who's boss around the house. We all read from time to time about pit bulls savaging children--sometimes it's a case of the dogs in question being taught aggression, but more often the owners have been too soft and let their pets get away with too much for too long.
It's definitely not PC to admit this, but my sister had a border collie mix who had very strong but misguided notions about who ran the house. Sister tried everything to train the dog--obedience school, Caesar Milan videos, treats/bribes etc etc. The dog was impervious to all efforts to rein it in--until the day BIL saw it bite one his kids. Out came the foot, and the dog was launched halfway across the room. Problem solved, and the dog minded its manners from that day forward.
Again I'm not advocating this method, just stressing that dogs who are not brought into line will take things to the point where you have no choice but to use physical force. Best to head them off before this happens.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Your poor dog needs a new owner, or at the very least, a competent trainer.
> 
> Karen N.


Get real as some animals are just mean just the same as humans are mean to other humans such as some on this site.

Down on the farm, you cannot allow one animal to hurt other animals as you put them down as you "must" have peace in the barnyard.

Did you read what some on here did to Yarnie and me? The rat pack really unleashed their hatred on us because of our physical disability!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Another thought. Maybe he needs to be in a one dog home?


Thought about that, too.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I don't believe in smacking animals to get them to obey, but dogs do need a firm hand and really have to understand who's boss around the house. We all read from time to time about pit bulls savaging children--sometimes it's a case of the dogs in question being taught aggression, but more often the owners have been too soft and let their pets get away with too much for too long.
> It's definitely not PC to admit this, but my sister had a border collie mix who had very strong but misguided notions about who ran the house. Sister tried everything to train the dog--obedience school, Caesar Milan videos, treats/bribes etc etc. The dog was impervious to all efforts to rein it in--until the day BIL saw it bite one his kids. Out came the foot, and the dog was launched halfway across the room. Problem solved, and the dog minded its manners from that day forward.
> Again I'm not advocating this method, just stressing that dogs who are not brought into line will take things to the point where you have no choice but to use physical force. Best to head them off before this happens.


That's what we are trying to get across to him. This is the second time he's bitten me and it cannot be tolerated. Dogs that bite do nobody any good.

To those that talk about a competent trainer. We are competent trainers. This is not our first dog. We've had dogs for over 30 years and know how to train them.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Good morning all!

I had some early morning musings and wanted to share.

I asked myself what leads us to an expanded sense of knowing? So I actually came up with some questions to ask myself/ourselves.

How many and how varied are the news sources I/we access?

How varied in age, ethnicity, gender, religion , income level, culture, ed level are the people we talk to?

How varied is the music genres we listen to ? Do I/we listen to opera, jazz, rock, reggae, country, pop, oldies, world music (ie in another language or made in another country?

How adventurious am I/we in food? Do I/we eat or cook food from other cultures and if so how many? Include vegan, vegetarian, grains only, meat and potatoes, white meats only etc?

Where do I/we buy my necessities? Do I/we question the policies of the stores I patronize? Why or why not?

Have I/we attended a different or varied religious institutions?

How varied are my acquaintences (sp)?

How varied are my very personal experiences? ie if I am pro gun control have I/we ever used or do I/we own a gun?

How varied is my job and or careers?

This is a long list, yet I am curious about you the readers and writers here.

This what I get for being awake too early in the morning.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Did you read what some on here did to Yarnie and me? The rat pack really unleashed their hatred on us because of our physical disability!


OK, I'm going to tackle this one head on in a no doubt futile attempt to straighten it out.

Janeway, I know you and Yarnie believe that my comment about cracking the seal on my can of O2 was a poke at you. It was not--if you check the posts immediately before that you'll see that the ladies and I were kidding about us being at Ground Zero while a tornado raged overhead. Lots of jokes about flying debris and the air getting thin--my comment simply meant that I myself was getting dizzy from lack of oxygen and my own head was starting to spin.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> That's what we are trying to get across to him. This is the second time he's bitten me and it cannot be tolerated. Dogs that bite do nobody any good.
> 
> To those that talk about a competent trainer. We are competent trainers. This is not our first dog. We've had dogs for over 30 years and know how to train them.


I wouldn't tolerate it either. I have a scar on my face from childhood, when a neighbor's dog lunged out its doghouse and attached itself to my nose. Aggressive dogs simply cannot be tolerated--I'd never let a dog hurt me, and if it tried to bite my son it would be one sorry puppy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm not sure that would make a difference. He just wants what he wants and a different master would not change the fact that he can't do whatever he wishes. He was the same way with our son.
> 
> He did go through puppy school so it's not as if he hasn't had training. We haven't beaten him even if the desire has been there. We are hoping that a little more maturity and, with spring being here, more time outside to run off his energy will help. If that doesn't help then the next thing on the list of things to try is neutering which we've never had to do to any of our male dogs. I've just never encountered this and am at a bit of a loss.


Good luck.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, I'm going to tackle this one head on in a no doubt futile attempt to straighten it out.
> 
> Janeway, I know you and Yarnie believe that my comment about cracking the seal on my can of O2 was a poke at you. It was not--if you check the posts immediately before that you'll see that the ladies and I were kidding about us being at Ground Zero while a tornado raged overhead. Lots of jokes about flying debris and the air getting thin--my comment simply meant that I myself was getting dizzy from lack of oxygen and my own head was starting to spin.


Well, that is not what you said on those pages as if you would have said what you are saying now, none of the hurt would have happened.

Now explain why you said those things to Yarnie as they were very hateful hurtful words to say to someone who has her medical problem.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm for it because marriage is one of the things that shows a person takes things seriously and wants to be a constructive, legitimate member of society. I believe the more people who feel they are part of legitimate society, the stronger that society will be.


Nicely written. I also agree.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I was just ruminating on some of the posts here and I wonder if some of us even live in the same reality as everyone else. Possibly I am over informed or over experienced because I get a sense of naivete from some peole.


Oh, my goodness, we are honored to have a scholar among us! Aren't we lucky! What sorta degrees do you hold my dear?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Ok, here is a picture of the socks I finished over the weekend. I also managed to start a knit blankie for my future GC. Don't know the gender yet. Oh, and the hound in the background is the dog from hell.


Beautiful socks - what yarn did you use? I love the colors in it. What kind of hound?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I wouldn't tolerate it either. I have a scar on my face from childhood, when a neighbor's dog lunged out its doghouse and attached itself to my nose. Aggressive dogs simply cannot be tolerated--I'd never let a dog hurt me, and if it tried to bite my son it would be one sorry puppy.


Thank you. I don't like using physical force on anything. I didn't get mad when he 'bagged' my fur coat. He was proud! I didn't get mad when he took the New York strips off the counter. There are some temptations that are just too strong. I don't get mad when he steals my socks and underwear in the morning. For him it's a wonderful game of chase. I don't get mad when he gets ahold of my knitting needles and uses them as toothpicks. I don't get mad when he makes a mess out of my balls of yarn. Is he trying to knit, I wonder?

Bitting, which is very different from puppy nipping that can happen during play, which is discouraged and not punished and an approved chewing device offered instead, is a definite line not to be crossed. And he was one sorry puppy and he is very aware that he did a BIG no-no.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Beautiful socks - what yarn did you use? I love the colors in it. What kind of hound?


He's a Brittany. The yarn is Zauerball. I don't recall the colorway but they were fun to knit.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Nicely written. I also agree.


Well, you people should spend a year down on the farm where life is very real as most city dwellers just do not have a clue about life as you are just floating in the wind until death!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I believe it is a civil right to be able to marry the person you love and I totally support the GLBT community in making that their right to chose just like I got to marry the person I love. They should have all the rights and responsibilities the same as a man married to a woman. They have been denied this very basic right and yes it is the government's responsibility to see that all Americans have this right. Since I also believe in separation of church and state I believe that it is up to individual religions to decide if they will marry same sex couples. I and my spouse were married by an Episcopal priest, who is a Lesbian but we could not be married in the church proper and the ceremony was at my MIL's.


One thing I don't understand is how some feel same-sex marriages threaten the marriage institution. I do understand that some don't agree that same sexes should marry but I just don't see a "threat". It could just be me.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Oh thank you SS. I was bothered by this comment last night. A dog wishes to please its master. What kind of master learns from beatings? I thought all people knew better now.


That's like saying teenagers wish to please their parents at all times. Yeah, right...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, that is not what you said on those pages as if you would have said what you are saying now, none of the hurt would have happened.
> 
> Now explain why you said those things to Yarnie as they were very hateful hurtful words to say to someone who has her medical problem.


Yarnie said some extremely hateful things to me--I've grown used to the pokes taken at me, my writing, etc etc, but the scathing insulting comments aimed at my husband and son were simply too much for me to stand.

And as far as the hatefulness of ridiculing folks with medical disabilities, Yarnie believed--mistakenly--that my husband was connected to an oxygen hose and chose to mock him and me for this perceived happenstance. Isn't that a perfect example of what you're condemning folks for?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> I just have to brag about the pizza I made this evening. Corn meal crust with pesto sauce then mozzerella and parmesian, asparagus and nettle. Yum!


Hold on - what does nettle taste like? I've not heard of nettle on a pizza before - that's interesting.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Oh, my goodness, we are honored to have a scholar among us! Aren't we lucky! What sorta degrees do you hold my dear?


I doubt I am your "dear". I have a BA in Philosopy and an MA in education. I am sure you want to share also.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't feel threatened by same sex marriage. It doesn't affect me at all, but it does provide custody, inheritance, tax fairness to all. It's a no brainer for me.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> He's a Brittany. The yarn is Zauerball. I don't recall the colorway but they were fun to knit.


He will be a good hunting dog. Brittany's are great at bird hunting. We have two German Wirehaired Pointers that hunt with my husband. I love watching them work.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, you people should spend a year down on the farm where life is very real as most city dwellers just do not have a clue about life as you are just floating in the wind until death!


What does that even mean?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Someone asked about the pattern I used on the socks. No real pattern but the stitch is a repeat of the following. I cast on 88 stitches for the pattern.

For the cuff I K one row, P one row for 6 rows.

Row 1: *P1, K2tog, K2, (K,YO,K)in the next stitch (there will be 3 stitches in that one stitch), K2, SSK, P1. Repeat from *.

Row 2: *P1, K9, P1. Repeat from *

Repeat rows 1 and 2 for about 5 inches. Knit whatever favorite heel you like and the foot however long you need them.

That's about it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm not sure that would make a difference. He just wants what he wants and a different master would not change the fact that he can't do whatever he wishes. He was the same way with our son.
> 
> He did go through puppy school so it's not as if he hasn't had training. We haven't beaten him even if the desire has been there. We are hoping that a little more maturity and, with spring being here, more time outside to run off his energy will help. If that doesn't help then the next thing on the list of things to try is neutering which we've never had to do to any of our male dogs. I've just never encountered this and am at a bit of a loss.


Call the Dog Whisperer!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> He will be a good hunting dog. Brittany's are great at bird hunting. We have two German Wirehaired Pointers that hunt with my husband. I love watching them work.


Maybe that's the underlying issue--the problem hound is a working dog that is chronically unemployed and frustrated. Sounds like a flip comment, but I'm quite serious. I have heard people claim that dogs that were bred for certain jobs like hunting and livestock herding really do need something to keep them busy. Maybe let a hunting friend try to train him or enroll him in a class?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> What does that even mean?


When we do not know a person's past we do not know the person. I, and I bet some other city dwellers have lived down on the farm. I cherish my experiences from living and working there. It had a big and is a continuing influence on me. I would love to live a rural lifesyyle again, but alas it is not in the cards for me now.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yarnie said some extremely hateful things to me--I've grown used to the pokes taken at me, my writing, etc etc, but the scathing insulting comments aimed at my husband and son were simply too much for me to stand.
> 
> And as far as the hatefulness of ridiculing folks with medical disabilities, Yarnie believed--mistakenly--that my husband was connected to an oxygen hose and chose to mock him and me for this perceived happenstance. Isn't that a perfect example of what you're condemning folks for?


What page is what she said on please as I did not see that? Who reported her as others said words that were just as hateful? I will find out who reported her as it will come out sooner or later or maybe Admin will tell me if I simply ask!

Others should have been reported and it is never too late to report people and what they have said. Why did one of the rat pack find it necessary to report just her and not others?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway
I'm sure there are people on this forum of differing educational backgrounds and experiences, and I don't think anyone has to list his/her qualifications to post. There's room for everyone and nobody need be embarrassed about his/here education or lack thereof. Really.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What does that even mean?


Are you for real?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Hold on - what does nettle taste like? I've not heard of nettle on a pizza before - that's interesting.


Nettle is a wild growing herb that has a rather mild taste, but is big, big, big in nutrients! I grow it in a large pot so it does not take over the whole yard. After you harvest it with gloves on, give it a wash and either use it to make a soup or very lightly braise and use in salads or like I did on pizza. It is great for allergies, high in vitamins (the peasants of old days used it as a spring eat to boost their vitamin loss of long winters.

I am a big advocate it as you can tell.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Are you for real?


You don't need to call anyone the rat pack.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway
> I'm sure there are people on this forum of differing educational backgrounds and experiences, and I don't think anyone has to list his/her qualifications to post. There's room for everyone and nobody need be embarrassed about his/here education or lack thereof. Really.


Yes, I understand but did you read what Peace wrote? She is implying she is "far" more intelligent than the rest of us! Just wanted to know what her degrees were but you answered for her. Can't she talk for herself?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Nettle is a wild growing herb that has a rather mild taste, but is big, big, big in nutrients! I grow it in a large pot so it does not take over the whole yard. After you harvest it with gloves on, give it a wash and either use it to make a soup or very lightly braise and use in salads or like I did on pizza. It is great for allergies, high in vitamins (the peasants of old days used it as a spring eat to boost their vitamin loss of long winters.
> 
> I am a big advocate it as you can tell.


I have a nephew who is big on learning about wild herbs and helpfully made nettle tea for his ailing brother. His ailing brother was almost ailing no longer as he had the worst allergic reaction in his entire life. I just want to mention that because something is "natural" does not make it perfectly safe.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, I understand but did you read what Peace wrote? She is implying she is "far" more intelligent than the rest of us! Just wanted to know what her degrees were but you answered for her. Can't she talk for herself?


I have no knowledge about anyone's credentials. I just think that it's not important on a forum like this.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> You don't need to call anyone the rat pack.


Well, are you reading what is said to us? I think you should allow those people to answer for themselves.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have no knowledge about anyone's credentials. I just think that it's not important on a forum like this.


You are still talking for Peace! Why won't she reply--did the cat get her tongue?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I have a nephew who is big on learning about wild herbs and helpfully made nettle tea for his ailing brother. His ailing brother was almost ailing no longer as he had the worst allergic reaction in his entire life. I just want to mention that because something is "natural" does not make it perfectly safe.


Everyone is diffrent and I am sorry he had such an extreme reaction. So horrible.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Well, are you reading what is said to us? I think you should allow those people to answer for themselves.


I didn't know if all left-leaning people are included in the rat pack description.
Once again, there has been enough name-calling to go around. I think it would be a nice relief to have less of it. I can abide by that if others can. When name-calling starts, people become defensive and have to lash back.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway, I did reply. Would you like me to send it again or in a private message?


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Nettle is a wild growing herb that has a rather mild taste, but is big, big, big in nutrients! I grow it in a large pot so it does not take over the whole yard. After you harvest it with gloves on, give it a wash and either use it to make a soup or very lightly braise and use in salads or like I did on pizza. It is great for allergies, high in vitamins (the peasants of old days used it as a spring eat to boost their vitamin loss of long winters.
> 
> I am a big advocate it as you can tell.


If they are so good for you then why do must you wear gloves? Lot of people have reactions to natural herbs.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Janeway, I did reply. Would you like me to send it again or in a private message?


On p.121 she listed her credentials.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> If they are so good for you then why do must you wear gloves? Lot of people have reactions to natural herbs.


Just as people have reactions to manufactured drugs. Nettle can sting.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Great questions, peacegoddess! Here's my responses. I look forward to reading what the other have to say.



peacegoddess said:


> Good morning all!
> 
> I had some early morning musings and wanted to share.
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Oh thank you SS. I was bothered by this comment last night. A dog wishes to please its master. What kind of master learns from beatings? I thought all people knew better now.


A certain amount of physical domination works really well with dogs. It's something they understand as part of the ranking process. But contemplating putting a dog down because it doesn't behave proves that old saw that there aren't any bad dogs, only bad owners. Years ago my husband and I had a dog who knew he was Beta 1 and we were Alpha 1 and 2 when we were both home, but he thought he was Alpha 1 when my husband wasn't there. I "discussed" this with him and he learned I was alpha 1 and he was alpha 2 when my husband wasn't around. He was a very good dog.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm generally not adventurous when it comes to new or different foods. We have a lot of allergies in our family. One of my friends is really into the latest trends in foods, which is fine. I try to eat things that are good for us, but she goes overboard. The other night she was telling us how she and her husband went out to dinner, and her husband had just one piece of "regular" sourdough bread and when he got up his knees were killing him from eating "all that gluten." Really? One piece? And has he been tested for a gluten allergy? That's pretty in righ now. Every grocery store has a gluten-free section now.people would be better off eating fewer processed foods.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe that's the underlying issue--the problem hound is a working dog that is chronically unemployed and frustrated. Sounds like a flip comment, but I'm quite serious. I have heard people claim that dogs that were bred for certain jobs like hunting and livestock herding really do need something to keep them busy. Maybe let a hunting friend try to train him or enroll him in a class?


I agree, susan. Winter, and it's bitterly cold here in MN, is difficult for anyone much less a puppy with endless energy. That's why I mentioned that I was hoping that with spring being here and him being able to be outside more often will help. I know I can't wait to get him to the dog park and let him run until he drops.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> He is our youngest son's pup. He didn't come to us until he was 9 months old. We have had dogs before and do very well with training. However, he is very strong willed and he does not like having things taken away from him that he wants. I will NOT tolerate being bitten.


I in no way think you should tolerate being bitten, and advocate some physical domination, which dogs understand really well. Putting him on tie-down may help, too. Maybe muzzling him except when he gets food and water might also help, if he's calm enough at a certain time everyday so you'd be safe. Rarely, a dog can't be trained, but I hope this isn't true in your case. Your post about possibly having the dog put down really upset me.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I doubt I am your "dear". I have a BA in Philosopy and an MA in education. I am sure you want to share also.


Well, bless your heart! Did you think you had to put down the rest of us? I also hold a BS in Accounting with a minor in Economics then a ME in higher Education.

I never put other people down as there are a lot of very smart people who never even finished high school.

A man in our town did not finish high school, but is a genius in math. People go to him for math problems and even NASA knows about him as he has been flown there to help. He is a physics whiz, but does yard work for a living and lives in a run down house and wears ragged clothing, but is very clean.

My first encounter with him was amazing as he only uses simple words, but you can tell the wheels are turning in his eyes.

The report around town was that NASA offered him everything, but he said no thanks, but would help them from where he lives when they needed him! Just think how "rich" this man would become!

This man simply became bored with the education system. Genius are that kind of people!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Great questions, peacegoddess! Here's my responses. I look forward to reading what the other have to say.


How fun to know more about you! Your work with IT must be very interesting and rewarding. I am a bit of a ludite...a love/dislike of technology. Maybe it is my aversion to kids being obsessed with computer games.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm generally not adventurous when it comes to new or different foods. We have a lot of allergies in our family. One of my friends is really into the latest trends in foods, which is fine. I try to eat things that are good for us, but she goes overboard. The other night she was telling us how she and her husband went out to dinner, and her husband had just one piece of "regular" sourdough bread and when he got up his knees were killing him from eating "all that gluten." Really? One piece? And has he been tested for a gluten allergy? That's pretty in righ now. Every grocery store has a gluten-free section now.people would be better off eating fewer processed foods.


You are so right. I think that shows how prone humans are to the power of suggestion. The glutten thing is just another popular thing and I think it's a phase that will die out quickly.

Last year we did a CSA with a local nursery. We got veggies I've never even heard of much less knew how to cook! But we felt more energetic. It caused me to change how we eat, the foods I buy (not so highly processed), and I'm making my whole wheat bread again. I'd forgotten how soothing kneading bread dough can be! And the punching down is definitely cathartic!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm generally not adventurous when it comes to new or different foods. We have a lot of allergies in our family. One of my friends is really into the latest trends in foods, which is fine. I try to eat things that are good for us, but she goes overboard. The other night she was telling us how she and her husband went out to dinner, and her husband had just one piece of "regular" sourdough bread and when he got up his knees were killing him from eating "all that gluten." Really? One piece? And has he been tested for a gluten allergy? That's pretty in righ now. Every grocery store has a gluten-free section now.people would be better off eating fewer processed foods.


I totally agree as so far the only foods that bother me is Chocolate and cranberries. I make sourdough bread every week.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Well, bless your heart! Did you think you had to put down the rest of us? I also hold a BS in Accounting with a minor in Economics then a ME in higher Education.
> 
> I never put other people down as there are a lot of very smart people who never even finished high school.
> 
> ...


Well just as you think I put people down, I think you patronize people whose opinions you do not like. A bit of tit for tat huh?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> You are so right. I think that shows how prone humans are to the power of suggestion. The glutten thing is just another popular thing and I think it's a phase that will die out quickly.
> 
> Last year we did a CSA with a local nursery. We got veggies I've never even heard of much less knew how to cook! But we felt more energetic. It caused me to change how we eat, the foods I buy (not so highly processed), and I'm making my whole wheat bread again. I'd forgotten how soothing kneading bread dough can be! And the punching down is definitely cathartic!


I love love love bread and cannot imagine life without the staff of life.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Your post about possibly having the dog put down really upset me.


Definitely last resort and way, way, way down on the list of possibilities. I was just really upset at being bitten...again... and it hurt and took a long time to stop bleeding!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Janeway, I did reply. Would you like me to send it again or in a private message?


My Internet is going on and off for some reason. Guess the storm that will arrive soon as we are to have severe storms soon.

I'm out of here until the storms passes plus get back to the neglected knitting.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

I developed a milk free recipe when I was a SAHM. The bread has whole wheat flour, soy flour, wheat germ, and sunflower seeds. It's tasty stuff and makes awesome peanut butter toast!



peacegoddess said:


> I love love love bread and cannot imagine life without the staff of life.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Do you think he needs a different owner/master/mistress?


Maybe, maybe not. Giving the dog to someone else may equal passing the problem on to another person. More aggressive training may be the answer as I already said to Thumper.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Well just as you think I put people down, I think you patronize people whose opinions you do not like. A bit of tit for tat huh?


Whatever you want to think about me does not bother me one bit. We live in a free country the last time I noticed or did you forget.

You are entitled to my opinion! Read it or not!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe that's the underlying issue--the problem hound is a working dog that is chronically unemployed and frustrated. Sounds like a flip comment, but I'm quite serious. I have heard people claim that dogs that were bred for certain jobs like hunting and livestock herding really do need something to keep them busy. Maybe let a hunting friend try to train him or enroll him in a class?


We do have to run our dogs quite a bit. My husband is on a quail lease a few miles from where we live and he loads them up and takes them running. They love it!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Are you for real?


I am - I don't get the gist of what you are saying in your post.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have a nephew who is big on learning about wild herbs and helpfully made nettle tea for his ailing brother. His ailing brother was almost ailing no longer as he had the worst allergic reaction in his entire life. I just want to mention that because something is "natural" does not make it perfectly safe.


I agree with that. I found some wild poke salad it my garden. I cooked it up and threw up all night. I later found out it is poision if you don't cook it along time. Haven't ate it since then. Grew up eating it tho. Can't stand to think of trying again.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Janeway said:


> Whatever you want to think about me does not bother me one bit. We live in a free country the last time I noticed or did you forget.
> 
> You are entitled to my opinion! Read it or not!


I do read your comments and I respond to the letter/intent of the message.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I'm generally not adventurous when it comes to new or different foods. We have a lot of allergies in our family. One of my friends is really into the latest trends in foods, which is fine. I try to eat things that are good for us, but she goes overboard. The other night she was telling us how she and her husband went out to dinner, and her husband had just one piece of "regular" sourdough bread and when he got up his knees were killing him from eating "all that gluten." Really? One piece? And has he been tested for a gluten allergy? That's pretty in righ now. Every grocery store has a gluten-free section now.people would be better off eating fewer processed foods.


I agree, it certainly is overboard. The only people who truly need to be gluten -free are those with Celiac disease or an authentic allergy to gluten. People can actually die from Celiac disease and it is prevalent among those with Celtic ancestry. A gluten intolerance,however, is a totally different thing - it may give you a few uncomfortable reactions, ie, bloating, and other gastric upsets or perhaps a rash, but certainly nothing life-threatening.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I didn't know if all left-leaning people are included in the rat pack description.
> Once again, there has been enough name-calling to go around. I think it would be a nice relief to have less of it. I can abide by that if others can. When name-calling starts, people become defensive and have to lash back.


I am here to discuss issues - I have no need for drama and I won't be responding to name calling or other challenges for drama. Just an FYI...


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree with that. I found some wild poke salad it my garden. I cooked it up and threw up all night. I later found out it is poision if you don't cook it along time. Haven't ate it since then. Grew up eating it tho. Can't stand to think of trying again.


Whoops! Maybe that is what happened to Poke Salad Annie!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree with that. I found some wild poke salad it my garden. I cooked it up and threw up all night. I later found out it is poision if you don't cook it along time. Haven't ate it since then. Grew up eating it tho. Can't stand to think of trying again.


Yuck! How awful! Is poke the same as miners lettuce?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I looked up poke and it is not the same as miners lettuce.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

I don't know what other name is has. It grows up to 5 feet and when goes to seed has black berries.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Just as people have reactions to manufactured drugs. Nettle can sting.


Sometimes I think nettles sting on purpose, but then I remember they're just plants that do indeed sting. I once started to roll down a hill and stopped myself by grabbing on to a big bunch of nettles. You know what happened to my hands!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't know what other name is has. It grows up to 5 feet and when goes to seed has black berries.


Are they a purplish-black and look sort of flattened? If so, we in MA, do call them Pokeweed.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You are so right. I think that shows how prone humans are to the power of suggestion. The glutten thing is just another popular thing and I think it's a phase that will die out quickly.
> 
> Last year we did a CSA with a local nursery. We got veggies I've never even heard of much less knew how to cook! But we felt more energetic. It caused me to change how we eat, the foods I buy (not so highly processed), and I'm making my whole wheat bread again. I'd forgotten how soothing kneading bread dough can be! And the punching down is definitely cathartic!


What is your advise on getting whole wheat to rise? I make bread at least 5 times a week. I only but in 1 cup of ww because I can't get it to rise like bread flower. I haven't found bread flour for ww yet in my area.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

medusa said:


> Are they a purplish-black and look sort of flattened? If so, we in MA, do call them Pokeweed.


Yes . The berries dye your hands if they are mashed.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is your advise on getting whole wheat to rise? I make bread at least 5 times a week. I only but in 1 cup of ww because I can't get it to rise like bread flower. I haven't found bread flour for ww yet in my area.


You still have to use regular flour as well. I use unbleached. Otherwise, you're right, it won't rise.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is your advise on getting whole wheat to rise? I make bread at least 5 times a week. I only but in 1 cup of ww because I can't get it to rise like bread flower. I haven't found bread flour for ww yet in my area.


The recipes I use for ww bread call for a mixture of white and ww. The heavier the flours the less it will rise. I have a great rye recipe with orange zest in place of the caraway seed. Yum.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Sometimes I think nettles sting on purpose, but then I remember they're just plants that do indeed sting. I once started to roll down a hill and stopped myself by grabbing on to a big bunch of nettles. You know what happened to my hands!


Och! I bet you know that some middle age monks once used nettles to flay themselves. Really och!


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes . The berries dye your hands if they are mashed.


Yes and they are poisonous! The roots a re SO strong - 2 years ago, one seeded itself between the slats of my deck and my foundation garden The root looked like a huge gnarled parsnip and it was a bitch to get it out all the way!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I agree with that. I found some wild poke salad it my garden. I cooked it up and threw up all night. I later found out it is poision if you don't cook it along time. Haven't ate it since then. Grew up eating it tho. Can't stand to think of trying again.


Not to discount anyone's negative experience with herbs, but when we use herbs we need to be really careful how they were grown and know if there were any negative additives in the soil.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Not to discount anyone's negative experience with herbs, but when we use herbs we need to be really careful how they were grown and know if there were any negative additives in the soil.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

medusa said:


> Yes and they are poisonous! The roots a re SO strong - 2 years ago, one seeded itself between the slats of my deck and my foundation garden The root looked like a huge gnarled parsnip and it was a bitch to get it out all the way!


Have you ever used vinegar to kill a plant? It has a short term life span in the soil and is not negative in the way of herbacides can be.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

OK. Time for me to stop reading and move along. I just vacuumed and picked up the family room area and sat down at the table for my second cup of coffee. Thank heavens my iPad was not on the table because I just spilled my full cup all over the paper I was going to read. Oh, well, I can Listen to the news and wait for tomorrow's sudoku and crosswords. At least no dog has diarrhea and unlike a worm, I can't get eaten by a bird today.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Have you ever used vinegar to kill a plant? It has a short term life span in the soil and is not negative in the way of herbacides can be.


I never use pest/herbicides! I always hand weed or dig them out if they are to large. Our planet has been ruined by the use of them and we have to thank Rachel Carlson - the prophetess - who brought their dangers to light!

Me, too, Andrea- I volunteer at the Senior Center on Tuesday afternoons. After that, I meet with my running group and then have my yoga class. See you all tomorrow, though!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

So as I askedthe morning musing questions, so will I answer them. 

I grew up on Ai Force bases across the world. Was briefly engaged to a West Point cadet...(I hear you laughing or gasping) but when I started questioning the war in Vietnam I knew the life as an Army wife was NOT for me. I read the NY Times, The Nation magazine, environmental books, wickedly grusome mysteries, travel mags, and yes even the SF chronicle (I think it is too conservative, but well....I do not have a TV in my own home so when I house/pet sit I voraciously watch news shows (Fox and Cnbc)and yes Game of Thrones. My main media information outlet is Democracy Now with Amy Goodman and I really like Christopher Hutchins take on social and political issues. I have met Angela Davis, Bella Abzug, 
and Winona LaDuke. Would like to meet Rush Limbaugh and see if he is really as nasty as he sounds on radio.

I volunteer with an agency called Homeless Prenatal. That explains itself. I have been a volunteer legislative advocate in both California legilature and very briefly, in DC.

I speak some Spanish and am trying to learn Italian, but doing poorly in tha endevor.



I am a single mother of a 37 year old daughter who is the light of my life. Single from the beginning and it has been
both wonderful and difficult. Going to college with a toddler was a challenge. 
I eat almost anything. Not partial to liver and lima beans gget little notice from me at the farmer's market. I am generally a vegetarian, but love lamb and oder it when I get Indian takeout. 
Lived the rural farm life for nine years. My daughter was in 4-H and we had rabbits and goats. I have had huge gardens and small container gardens. Am a bit frustrated living in foggy SF, but manage to grow herbs and flowers and salad fixings. 

I adore opera and wish I could afford to go more often. Jazz and blue grass are favorites also. Of course being a product of the sixties I like the oldies. Motown is great for cleaning. 

Have worked as a high school social studies teach, childcare provider, both teacher and director and now in semi-retirement I do independent childcare and also pet care.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> So as I askedthe morning musing questions, so will I answer them.
> 
> I grew up on Ai Force bases across the world. Was briefly engaged to a West Point cadet...(I hear you laughing or gasping) but when I started questioning the war in Vietnam I knew the life as an Army wife was NOT for me. I read the NY Times, The Nation magazine, environmental books, wickedly grusome mysteries, travel mags, and yes even the SF chronicle (I think it is too conservative, but well....I do not have a TV in my own home so when I house/pet sit I voraciously watch news shows (Fox and Cnbc)and yes Game of Thrones. My main media information outlet is Democracy Now with Amy Goodman and I really like Christopher Hutchins take on social and political issues. I have met Angela Davis, Bella Abzug,
> and Winona LaDuke. Would like to meet Rush Limbaugh and see if he is really as nasty as he sounds on radio.
> ...


Great bio! Thanks


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

medusa said:


> I never use pest/herbicides! I always hand weed or dig them out if they are to large. Our planet has been ruined by the use of them and we have to thank Rachel Carlson - the prophetess - who brought their dangers to light!
> 
> Me, too, Andrea- I volunteer at the Senior Center on Tuesday afternoons. After that, I meet with my running group and then have my yoga class. See you all tomorrow, though!


I use the vinegar on weeds in the cracks of pavement when they are difficult to pull out.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I use the vinegar on weeds in the cracks of pavement when they are difficult to pull out.


I go outside with my tea kettle of boiling water to get rid of weeds growing between the cracks of the sidewalk and driveway.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I go outside with my tea kettle of boiling water to get rid of weeds growing between the cracks of the sidewalk and driveway.


That sounds even better.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> That sounds even better.


Sometimes I even pour the water on the weeds. (Haha)


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

All this talk of nettle and weeds makes me anxious to work in my garden. But, it is still half covered in snow.
Just got home from visiting my son. Leave hubby alone for 30 hours and I get a messy house to clean. 
See you all later tonite.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

quote=alcameron]Sometimes I even pour the water on the weeds. (Haha)[/quote]

You are too funny. How is Lucy?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> quote=alcameron]Sometimes I even pour the water on the weeds. (Haha)


You are too funny. How is Lucy?[/quote]

Lucy's doing well, but this time it was Hiro with the bowel problem! I decided to stop the anti-diarrhea medication today to see how that comes out.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Lucy's doing well, but this time it was Hiro with the bowel problem! I decided to stop the anti-diarrhea medication today to see how that comes out.


Everything always comes out...one way or another. Diarrhea is so hard on their little systems.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Maybe, maybe not. Giving the dog to someone else may equal passing the problem on to another person. More aggressive training may be the answer as I already said to Thumper.


Is the dog neutered?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't think several people on this site would know what the real world is if it hit them in the face. Try working hard on a farm where Mother Nature decides if you will have a profit or not with the weather. You can the vegetables you eat and grow chickens for meat and eggs and other animals for meat on the farm.
> 
> That is real life and believe me there were NO gay animals down on the farm as the animals are too smart for that stupid behavior.
> 
> ...


Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.

Karen N.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lucy's doing well, but this time it was Hiro with the bowel problem! I decided to stop the anti-diarrhea medication today to see how that comes out.


I have switched all my fur kids (7) to a raw food diet with added flax seed. We had one rescue who had chronic diarrhea. As soon as he started eating the raw food he never had diarrhea again. Their coats are just beautiful and I have never see them more eager to eat.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Good morning all!
> 
> I had some early morning musings and wanted to share.
> 
> ...


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> Karen N.


I'm surprised Janeway didn't mention that homosexuality is a choice and that there are therapists who can cure the problem. I probably shouldn't be surprised. Janeway certainly isn't alone in her beliefs.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> 
> Karen N.


I have seen cows mounting cows.........is that not little daunting to you? I had two female lovebirds who saw nothing wrong with mounting each other.

Who ever said that marriage is only about love making or procreating? Marriage is a commitment to one another.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Everything always comes out...one way or another. Diarrhea is so hard on their little systems.


It is - they can get dehydrated so quickly.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

I have read where pure canned pumpkin helps with diarrhea. Can't be the pie one, but pure pumpkin.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> 
> Karen N.


I am just howling with laughter and amazement at Janeway.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

sjrNC said:


> I have read where pure canned pumpkin helps with diarrhea. Can't be the pie one, but pure pumpkin.


One of pet sit clients used that cure.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I have switched all my fur kids (7) to a raw food diet with added flax seed. We had one rescue who had chronic diarrhea. As soon as he started eating the raw food he never had diarrhea again. Their coats are just beautiful and I have never see them more eager to eat.


We adopted Hiro about 4 yrs ago and this is the first time he's ever been sick. I looked all over the house and dog run area for remnants of anything he might have eaten, but there was nothing. He eats one of the NutroMax foods and Lucy, who can eat no grain or meat eats Natural Balance fish and sweet potato. Hiro sometimes gets cooked chicken, too. Both our dogs have good appetites, but when Lucy is going to have a IBS flare up, she doesn't want to eat as heartily. I use prednisone for flare ups, but I don't give it unless absolutely necessary, because I don't like that medication. We tried other things, but the limited amount of pred does the trick very rapidly.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm surprised Janeway didn't mention that homosexuality is a choice and that there are therapists who can cure the problem. I probably shouldn't be surprised. Janeway certainly isn't alone in her beliefs.


Mr. Michelle Bachmann has a clinic to "convert gays."


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> 
> Karen N.


I think you should do some reading up on the transmission of HIV. You may be surprised to know that heterosexuals spread the virus also. It was once though that AIDS was a punishment from G_d for homosexuality. However enlightened people know that this is not true. You are certainly fixated on the sexual aspect of homosexuality. Time for you to read up on why gays want to get married. It is not only for sex but equality.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> One thing I don't understand is how some feel same-sex marriages threaten the marriage institution. I do understand that some don't agree that same sexes should marry but I just don't see a "threat". It could just be me.


I don't understand the threat either. If you are straight you will marry another person of the opposite sex. How would gays marrying each other possibly change that? Every person gay or straight comes is born out of straight sex or artificial insemination. That is going to change. Lesbians and Gays are regular people and make good parents just like straights they love their kids. The notion that Lesbians and Gays are going to produce Lesbian and Gay children is totally ridiculous. The vast majority of Lesbians and Gays come out of families with Straight parents. They have absolutely no desire to convert anyone to their lifestyle so all you Straight people who are afraid someone in the GLBT community is after you 'cause you are so attractive have no fear except for the Bisexuals that is. I would just say politely I am flattered but I am not interested.
:thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Someone asked about the pattern I used on the socks. No real pattern but the stitch is a repeat of the following. I cast on 88 stitches for the pattern.
> 
> For the cuff I K one row, P one row for 6 rows.
> 
> ...


Thanks Thumper it was me who asked for the pattern. I will give it a try. I only knit one pair before, toe up. Your's is cuff down then right?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I think you should do some reading up on the transmission of HIV. You may be surprised to know that heterosexuals spread the virus also. It was once though that AIDS was a punishment from G_d for homosexuality. However enlightened people know that this is not true. You are certainly fixated on the sexual aspect of homosexuality.


Not unusual in the GOP circles, I'm afraid. I never could figure out why Benghazi was such a "hot" (double meaning intended) issue with the rightists until I starting looking more closely at their articles and blogs. From their gossip and speculation Obama's accountability seems of far less importance than knowing if Stevens was sexually assaulted--how many men involved--how many times--and on and on. A lot of these folks seem much too interested in something they consider a terrible sin.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Are you talking about me?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> I have read where pure canned pumpkin helps with diarrhea. Can't be the pie one, but pure pumpkin.


If this is for a dog pumpkin acts as a laxative. We've used for our elderly Brittany dog for years.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I feel like I am reading a notice from the dark ages. Who would want to come out to you Janeway? Your comments border on prurience. Thank goodness your viewpoint is going the way of the horse and buggy!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Are you talking about me?


I was responding to susan2000, referencing one of your comments.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks Thumper it was me who asked for the pattern. I will give it a try. I only knit one pair before, toe up. Your's is cuff down then right?


Correct.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Not default, faulty reasoning. I would have to use a racial slur or make a bigoted remark when criticizing Obama to qualify as a racist or bigot.


If so, then why are those on the right that don't agree with Obama's policies considered racists and bigots when not using actual racist slurs? According to some, just disagreeing with Obama means you are a racist.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Mr. Michelle Bachmann has a clinic to "convert gays."


I forgot about that. So good to know there's another quack fleecing the gullible and/or deperate.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If so, then why are those on the right that don't agree with Obama's policies considered racists and bigots when not using actual racist slurs? According to some, just disagreeing with Obama means you are a racist.


"According to some..." that doesn't mean all. I don't consider people to be racist simply because they disagree with some of Obama's policies.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Maybe it's just those on the right who have made racisist and bigoted slurs are the ones considered. Those who have not should be proud of themselves.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> If so, then why are those on the right that don't agree with Obama's policies considered racists and bigots when not using actual racist slurs? According to some, just disagreeing with Obama means you are a racist.


There isn't much I can do about them. What I do recommend is searching one's vocabulary very carefully because sometimes we aren't aware of a racist or bigoted word we might not have stopped using.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I forgot about that. So good to know there's another quack fleecing the gullible and/or deperate.


Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If so, then why are those on the right that don't agree with Obama's policies considered racists and bigots when not using actual racist slurs? According to some, just disagreeing with Obama means you are a racist.


Sometimes there is a tone that could be interpreted as racist. Perception is something that always needs to be examined.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Have heard works both ways. I have only used it for diarrhea and it worked.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> My two cents worth:
> Is there anyone on this thread who has been exceedingly kind to everyone else? This is ridiculous. Bashing someone or other goes on every single day. I have probably bashed and I have been bashed. Snarkiness seems to be the general tone. Turning the other cheek works for awhile, but then one is perceived as being weak, so it's OK to bully that person. In fact, the majority ruled here for a long time because there were just a few voices who are liberals or progressives or heck, even Democrats. We were beaten down and made fun of at every turn. When that wasn't happening, the Obama and family or Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi were always being ridiculed. The minority was bullied all over the place. Now there are a few more voices from the Left, and suddenly we are all evil people who like nothing better than beating up on defenseless people with disabilities or physical conditions or whatever. I'm 72 years old. Do I deserve respect from all you whipper-snappers because I'm a senior citizen? Must you all start respecting your elders? I've had to fight back from being bullied or made fun of more than once. If I don't like it I can speak my mind or go away for a rest or quit posting and reading because that's how this thread works. Everyone who's "nice" is on one side and the rest of us are stupid, idiot evil people according to some of you.
> If we all agree to stop the snide remarks I'll abide by the rules, but if we want a free-for-all, we have to accept the fall-out.
> End of Epistle, and no, I don't think I'm an apostle so hold the comments.


Oh please, all the feigned drama. You and your progressive buddies were attacking the conservatives/republicans since they first started posting on your Progressive Woman's thread. That got nasty fast because that is the only way you know how to act toward someone with a different point of view. Oh wait, you also had your own forum which imploded because you all couldn't get along with each other. What a surprise. Before you continue on about being dumped on by the majority, you weren't always the minority here.

The Obamas, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are all public figures and are fair game, just like Bush, Palin, Paul Ryan, etc. are for you.

It would certainly be nice to have a cease fire, but judging from the past that will always be short lived. As long as people are being called names and insulted for the opinions they hold, a cease fire will have no roots. This is to be applied to both sides.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Michele Bachmann. I could go on and on about her. She is my comgresswoman whom I have never voted for. 
Yes, she did receive fed money for the "Pray away the Gay" and for her very expensive bridge project. 700 million for that bridge.
She has taken in 23 foster children which she received at least a million from the state.
I could go on and on......
She definitely is nuts and I can't believe that she serves on the intelligence commitee. What an oxymoron.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Sometimes there is a tone that could be interpreted as racist.


Yes, the behavior of the anti-Obamas themselves is very often the tip-off. I'm seem some who shrug off accusations of racism with a casualness that suggest that in fact they are not--they just don't like the guy and/or his policies, which is of course their right. But others go into a tizzy if anyone brings up the possibility of prejudice--their passionate denials, their inability to let the subject drop, their assertions that they have an African-American friend/neighbor/student and so couldn't possibly be a racist--all that speaks volumes about what they're really thinking.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes the Bachmanns bought up farm land and were paid subsidies to not plant anything. It's fine for her and her husband to take government money as it is perfectly legal so that makes it right in her book. No moral dilemma there.


What would be the difference in Bachmann taking the subsidies compared to any other celebrity taking subsidies for their "farm" land? Is it because of who she is you are belittling her?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What would be the difference in Bachmann taking the subsidies compared to any other celebrity taking subsidies for their "farm" land?


There is no difference--it's just plain wrong, no matter who does it.


----------



## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Regarding the statement about homosexuality not occurring in any species other than humans: WRONG

References: 
Homosexual behaviour and female-male mounting in mammalsa first survey. Mammal Review. Volume 14 Issue 4 Pages 155-185.

Can Animals Be Gay http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/04/magazine/04animals-t.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

PL Vasey has published several peer-reviewed scientific papers (in top-rated science journals) documenting homosexual behaviors in Japanese macaques.

Go to Google Scholar and you can locate more references about homosexual behavior in ants, flour beetles, rats, and other species.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bachmann is on the pulpit saying that we don't want or need government money. Now that seems to me that she is speaking from both sides of her mouth. Her and her husband's clinic accept gov't money as well.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

mojave said:


> Regarding the statement about homosexuality not occurring in any species other than humans: WRONG
> 
> References:
> Homosexual behaviour and female-male mounting in mammalsa first survey. Mammal Review. Volume 14 Issue 4 Pages 155-185.
> ...


Thank you or the references. Good job!!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I don't think several people on this site would know what the real world is if it hit them in the face. Try working hard on a farm where Mother Nature decides if you will have a profit or not with the weather. You can the vegetables you eat and grow chickens for meat and eggs and other animals for meat on the farm.
> 
> That is real life and believe me there were NO gay animals down on the farm as the animals are too smart for that stupid behavior.
> 
> ...


Janeway, janeway you have so much misinformation. Where do you come up with this stuff? Below is what I said earlier copied word for word from my previous post. Did I say I was Gay or that my husband was? No, I said the priest was. I'm sorry that I didn't express myself very clearly. The priest was a close friend of my husband's family and was not openly Gay way back when we got married. We did not agree with the church's stand on not recognizing Gays in the priesthood and it was our own personal protest against the church and we did not want to be hypocrits since we knew our friend was Gay. I should not have said we couldn't get married in the church we chose not to. I am happy to report that people can now be openly Gay in the Episcopal priesthood and Gay marriages are blessed by the church. Some have split away from the church in opposition.

As to all the Gay sexual activity you seem to have researched it quite a bit yourself. I think some of your beliefs may be off. You are incorrect about how Aids is spread. Sexual transmittal between men and men and women and men and by tainted blood transfusions spreads Aids. Aids has killed all kinds of people. You are the one who needs to get her head out of the sand about this. You seem to be very interested in Gay sex. I won't ask you if you are Gay as it is none of my business and if you were Gay it wouldn't matter to me.

I believe it is a civil right to be able to marry the person you love and I totally support the GLBT community in making that their right to chose just like I got to marry the person I love. They should have all the rights and responsibilities the same as a man married to a woman. They have been denied this very basic right and yes it is the government's responsibility to see that all Americans have this right. Since I also believe in separation of church and state I believe that it is up to individual religions to decide if they will marry same sex couples. I and my spouse were married by an Episcopal priest, who is a Lesbian but we could(should have said would)not be married in the church proper and the ceremony was at my MIL's.

Also, some animals are homosexual, Janeway. So if some of your critters act a little different to what you think is normal they are probably Gay!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mojave said:


> Regarding the statement about homosexuality not occurring in any species other than humans: WRONG
> 
> References:
> Homosexual behaviour and female-male mounting in mammalsa first survey. Mammal Review. Volume 14 Issue 4 Pages 155-185.
> ...


Thanks for your enlightening post, Mojave.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Yes, I understand but did you read what Peace wrote? She is implying she is "far" more intelligent than the rest of us! Just wanted to know what her degrees were but you answered for her. Can't she talk for herself?


Janeway how is she implying that she is "far" more intelligent than the rest of us? All she did was answer a question and said what 
her degrees were. Degrees don't automatically make you more intelligent than others. You seem to be a little defensive and you shouldn't be. There is common sense that takes a long way in life too and you don't need a formal education for that. George Bush went to Yale as a legacy and I think he is as dumb as a doorknob. JMO


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> I agree, susan. Winter, and it's bitterly cold here in MN, is difficult for anyone much less a puppy with endless energy. That's why I mentioned that I was hoping that with spring being here and him being able to be outside more often will help. I know I can't wait to get him to the dog park and let him run until he drops.


Do you have access to a tread mill? I'm serious. An animal behaviorist recommended one to my friend for her dog. He has so much energy that he got into trouble all the time. Once she started her dog on the tread mill, his behavior started to change for the better. He actually enjoyed his time on it, eventually. They worked out being on the tread mill together. She also started him on agility training. Now that takes a lot of energy, from both dog and human. :-D


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Maybe it's just those on the right who have made racisist and bigoted slurs are the ones considered. Those who have not should be proud of themselves.


I don't consider myself racist and I don't like any of obama's policies. However, some who have attributed the adjective lazy to him have been called racist and I think that's a stretch.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Do you have access to a tread mill? I'm serious. An animal behaviorist recommended one to my friend for her dog. He has so much energy that he got into trouble all the time. Once she started her dog on the tread mill, his behavior started to change for the better. He actually enjoyed his time on it, eventually. They worked out being on the tread mill together. She also started him on agility training. Now that takes a lot of energy, from both dog and human. :-D


Interesting...I'll have to look into it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please, all the feigned drama. You and your progressive buddies were attacking the conservatives/republicans since they first started posting on your Progressive Woman's thread. That got nasty fast because that is the only way you know how to act toward someone with a different point of view. Oh wait, you also had your own forum which imploded because you all couldn't get along with each other. What a surprise. Before you continue on about being dumped on by the majority, you weren't always the minority here.
> 
> The Obamas, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are all public figures and are fair game, just like Bush, Palin, Paul Ryan, etc. are for you.
> 
> It would certainly be nice to have a cease fire, but judging from the past that will always be short lived. As long as people are being called names and insulted for the opinions they hold, a cease fire will have no roots. This is to be applied to both sides.


So to write something "neutral" you start off with "feigned drama." Just writing from my own perspective, so I guess that's not welcome in your book. I want you to know that I use some restraint when talking about Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin and Michelle Bachmann. Enough said.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Whoops! Maybe that is what happened to Poke Salad Annie!


Love that good old Wilson Pickett song! :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Janeway, janeway you have so much misinformation. Where do you come up with this stuff? Below is what I said earlier copied word for word from my previous post. Did I say I was Gay or that my husband was? No, I said the priest was. I'm sorry that I didn't express myself very clearly. The priest was a close friend of my husband's family and was not openly Gay way back when we got married. We did not agree with the church's stand on not recognizing Gays in the priesthood and it was our own personal protest against the church and we did not want to be hypocrits since we knew our friend was Gay. I should not have said we couldn't get married in the church we chose not to. I am happy to report that people can now be openly Gay in the Episcopal priesthood and Gay marriages are blessed by the church. Some have split away from the church in opposition.
> 
> As to all the Gay sexual activity you seem to have researched it quite a bit yourself. I think some of your beliefs may be off. You are incorrect about how Aids is spread. Sexual transmittal between men and men and women and men and by tainted blood transfusions spreads Aids. Aids has killed all kinds of people. You are the one who needs to get her head out of the sand about this. You seem to be very interested in Gay sex. I won't ask you if you are Gay as it is none of my business and if you were Gay it wouldn't matter to me.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Sometimes there is a tone that could be interpreted as racist. Perception is something that always needs to be examined.


I agree about perception. However, I think a lot of problems are because of political correctness. All that is needed is one person to be "offended" ( i'm not sure they are really offended) by a word or sentence and all of a sudden the speaker is labeled a racist or bigot. I think we will do much better if we tone down the political correctness.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hey Minnesotans! I just read a post on fb that we are in for a huge amoumt of snow. Haven't seen anything on the Weather Channel yet. Is this true?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

In the mid-70's the popular clothing style for some Lesbians was flannel shirts and overalls. I had been living in a rural area where we all wore longjohns (weather dictating), flannel shirts and overalls, along with sturdy boots to do our farm chores. I came down here for a job and eventually got hit on by a few women. I used a variation of what I'd have said to a man I wasn't interested in that way, "Thank you for thinking of me but I'm straight.", and the last woman who asked if I'd like to -----very kindly pointed out that I might want to dress a bit differently. I am often out of touch about clothing styles...and God knows what else. We both had a good laugh, too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nevermind! It just came on TWC. my town is under a winter storm warning until 1PM Thursday.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Maybe it's just those on the right who have made racisist and bigoted slurs are the ones considered. Those who have not should be proud of themselves.


Yes, I think making racist and/or bigoted remarks is an equal opportunity deal. Left, right or center, anyone can say something inappropriate.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What would be the difference in Bachmann taking the subsidies compared to any other celebrity taking subsidies for their "farm" land? Is it because of who she is you are belittling her?


I don't think farm subsidies should be given out to people to keep them from farming the land. She and her husband specifically bought land with the intention of not farming it so they could get federal money. Bachmann is always complaining about other people getting free handouts but she has no trouble doing it herself. She is a big hypocrit and and an idiot who is married to a guy who claims to be able to turn Gays straight. Yeah that will work. Not! They are both dumb as stumps.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nevermind! It just came on TWC. my town is under a winter storm warning until 1PM Thursday.


You must have been very busy the last 24 hours, Patty not to know this. We already stocked up on all the necessaries. Lots of out state schools already closed this morning. It's sunny here now, the calm before the storm. Batten down the hatches! :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I had an alpha female Dalmatian that thought she ran the house. At 9 months old she decided to to flex her muscles, and when I grabbed (not yanked) her collar to lead her inside, she growled at me. WELLLLLLL On her back she went, I kneeled over her and placed and open palm on her neck and yelled at her in a loud voice the Star Spangled Banner. For 15 minutes her paws were up and tightly held in defiance. She finally "gave in" and the paws went to her sides. The next day she tried a small growl, and back she went on her back, I only got through one line of the Our Father, and the paws went limp. I never again had to even raise my voice to her. I had read the book by the German Monks about how to train your puppy, and they advocate making the dog understand their place in 'the pack' and that you are in charge not them. I have large dogs now, and one has decided that he can growl at the other one, if he doesn't want him in the same room. I take him by the collar, and put him on his pillow in my room and close the room for his time out. He did it coming up the steps last night, because I think he didn't realize I could hear him. In he came and off to time out he went. He gets it now, and life is good. One can not have a 100 pound dog run the show.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

PS: Where is the site that Yarnie posted on? Still have not gotten a response to that question from Susan and SS. Why is that? What is the big deal of telling me where she is posting now? What is there to hide?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I had an alpha female Dalmatian that thought she ran the house. At 9 months old she decided to to flex her muscles, and when I grabbed (not yanked) her collar to lead her inside, she growled at me. WELLLLLLL On her back she went, I kneeled over her and placed and open palm on her neck and yelled at her in a loud voice the Star Spangled Banner. For 15 minutes her paws were up and tightly held in defiance. She finally "gave in" and the paws went to her sides. The next day she tried a small growl, and back she went on her back, I only got through one line of the Our Father, and the paws went limp. I never again had to even raise my voice to her. I had read the book by the German Monks about how to train your puppy, and they advocate making the dog understand their place in 'the pack' and that you are in charge not them. I have large dogs now, and one has decided that he can growl at the other one, if he doesn't want him in the same room. I take him by the collar, and put him on his pillow in my room and close the room for his time out. He did it coming up the steps last night, because I think he didn't realize I could hear him. In he came and off to time out he went. He gets it now, and life is good. One can not have a 100 pound dog run the show.


I've done that with him a couple of times now. He's so hard headed!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Yes . The berries dye your hands if they are mashed.


Country, Polk is very good for you as you can eat the leaves, stalk, but not the berries. My parents would pick it, boil it, drain it then fry some bacon (1 or 2 slices) diced onions then put the Polk back into the skillet and sauté it. It is very much like cooked spinach but has more vitamins or I was told.

Cut the stalk into pieces (peal it ) and cook like okra. It also is very good to eat. Use tender stalks, but not the main stalk as it is tough!

My parents used the berries to dye material but was poison or they told us. I have not looked the berries up but my parents may have not wanted us to get it on our clothing!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> PS: Where is the site that Yarnie posted on? Still have not gotten a response to that question from Susan and SS. Why is that? What is the big deal of telling me where she is posting now? What is there to hide?


You mean you still don't know? How sad that none of your cronies have bothered to clue you in.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

medusa said:


> I never use pest/herbicides! I always hand weed or dig them out if they are to large. Our planet has been ruined by the use of them and we have to thank Rachel Carlson - the prophetess - who brought their dangers to light!
> 
> Me, too, Andrea- I volunteer at the Senior Center on Tuesday afternoons. After that, I meet with my running group and then have my yoga class. See you all tomorrow, though!


OOPS, it should read Rachel Carson


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> 
> Karen N.


I'm sorry, in order for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion. Nice try though!

I have a right to my opinion, and you have the right to be offended or get over it. Either way, I'm good!

No one in my family has "ever" been gay so speak for yourself! We have our heads on straight!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You must have been very busy the last 24 hours, Patty not to know this. We already stocked up on all the necessaries. Lots of out state schools already closed this morning. It's sunny here now, the calm before the storm. Batten down the hatches! :thumbup:


I have been very busy! I cooked enough Vegan dishes for my son to get him through the week. He is doing so much better. He will get a walking cast next week.
I have my little grandaughter today and I am trying to get some housework done in between her naps. When baby B wakes up it will be her dinner and after that I will cook mine.
Looks like the storm winds are going to be nasty! I have to check the flashlights and get the candles out. I really don't care about the snow. It's the freezing rain that worries me.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Good heavens. Your mind is not only closed, it's bolted, chained, and welded shut. Heaven forbid should one of your family discover that he'she is gay.
> 
> Karen N.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

off2knit said:


> I had an alpha female Dalmatian that thought she ran the house. At 9 months old she decided to to flex her muscles, and when I grabbed (not yanked) her collar to lead her inside, she growled at me. WELLLLLLL On her back she went, I kneeled over her and placed and open palm on her neck and yelled at her in a loud voice the Star Spangled Banner. For 15 minutes her paws were up and tightly held in defiance. She finally "gave in" and the paws went to her sides. The next day she tried a small growl, and back she went on her back, I only got through one line of the Our Father, and the paws went limp. I never again had to even raise my voice to her. I had read the book by the German Monks about how to train your puppy, and they advocate making the dog understand their place in 'the pack' and that you are in charge not them. I have large dogs now, and one has decided that he can growl at the other one, if he doesn't want him in the same room. I take him by the collar, and put him on his pillow in my room and close the room for his time out. He did it coming up the steps last night, because I think he didn't realize I could hear him. In he came and off to time out he went. He gets it now, and life is good. One can not have a 100 pound dog run the show.


Are you talking about the book called "The Monks of New Skeet"? We have that book also.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Lucy's doing well, but this time it was Hiro with the bowel problem! I decided to stop the anti-diarrhea medication today to see how that comes out.


Try yogurt. Helps my dogs when they have diarrhea .


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm sorry, in order for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion. Nice try though!
> 
> I have a right to my opinion, and you have the right to be offended or get over it. Either way, I'm good!
> 
> No one in my family has "ever" been gay so speak for yourself! We have our heads on straight!


You should be checking the facts of your original statement. Perhaps education is in order.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Are you talking about the book called "The Monks of New Skeet"? We have that book also.


That was a great book. I also believe in clicker training, it is all about positive reinforcement.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Thank you or the references. Good job!!


Excellent!!!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> That was a great book. I also believe in clicker training, it is all about positive reinforcement.


I agree - I like positive reinforcement as well. I prefer clicker training as opposed to giving them treats. They get used to those darn treats!


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

Well, since my Internet comes and goes, I see where I have been the joy for a lot of you good folks to Polk fun when you think I'm not online. Guess the storm is the trouble.

Well to all of you who have been having fun at my expense, I really don't care what any of you say about me, as all of you just have your heads in the sand and are bullies! The rat pack is showing up again!

So let me give each of you a quarter to call someone who cares because I don't! 

I'm fine the rest of you need therapy!


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You should be checking the facts of your original statement. Perhaps education is in order.


No, I don't need to be educated about the warped views of people who think being gay is normal!

None of our farm animals were gay! I'm sure the articles you referred to were written by gay people who are trying to justify people being gay by saying animals are gay. What a crock of nonsense people are trying to sell!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janeway said:


> The rat pack is showing up again!


Neat--I always wanted to shake hands with Frank Sinatra...think he'll give me his autograph too?


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You mean you still don't know? How sad that none of your cronies have bothered to clue you in.


What is sad, is your need to make yourself feel better by name calling people. All your assumptions, all the snarky name calling, all the snide remarks, just must be a way to fill the black hole in your heart/spirit. I hope it is working.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, I don't need to be educated about the warped views of people who think being gay is normal!
> 
> None of our farm animals were gay! I'm sure the articles you referred to were written by gay people who are trying to justify people being gay by saying animals are gay. What a crock of nonsense people are trying to sell!


Janeway--something to think about. Why would people choose to be gay if you think it's a choice?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Janeway said:


> No, I don't need to be educated about the warped views of people who think being gay is normal!
> 
> None of our farm animals were gay! I'm sure the articles you referred to were written by gay people who are trying to justify people being gay by saying animals are gay. What a crock of nonsense people are trying to sell!


Thou protest too much!! You do not believe that being gay is normal, what do you believe? Is it a choice? Can they be "turned". Why are you so upset? This is a discussion. You get very angry when someone disagrees with you. Have you ever check the facts of HIV/AIDS? If you write something you should be able to back it up.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What is sad, is your need to make yourself feel better by name calling people. All your assumptions, all the snarky name calling, all the snide remarks, just must be a way to fill the black hole in your heart/spirit. I hope it is working.


Hey, Susan, were you the one who used the phrase "rat pack?"


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> You should be checking the facts of your original statement. Perhaps education is in order.


Who has insulted you?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have been very busy! I cooked enough Vegan dishes for my son to get him through the week. He is doing so much better. He will get a walking cast next week.
> I have my little grandaughter today and I am trying to get some housework done in between her naps. When baby B wakes up it will be her dinner and after that I will cook mine.
> Looks like the storm winds are going to be nasty! I have to check the flashlights and get the candles out. I really don't care about the snow. It's the freezing rain that worries me.


You are a busy lady! How old's the baby? We have a few of those, too - aren't they sweet? We have two 2-year olds and a 6 month old. And a lot of bigger ones. I shouldn't barge in on your conversation, but I just got back from visiting five of our grandchildren, and seeing "baby B," that's so sweet, it made me think of them.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Try yogurt. Helps my dogs when they have diarrhea .


It sometimes helps people, too!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Janeway--something to think about. Why would people choose to be gay if you think it's a choice?


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Why all the fuss about gay marriage?

I personally am for it, every individual should have equal rights. I am sure for those who have all ready been in long term relationships why should they not benefit from the same benefits as we hetrosexual couples do.

Why should they not be entitled? I do not ask what they do in the privacy of their own homes, their bedrooms, for that matter, I do not ask my hetrosexual friends either. 

Some things are just better kept private! 

I try to keep an open mind, be receptive to learning, learning about all people and have been extremely lucky in knowing and making friends of all sorts, rich, poor, coloured, gay, religious, not religious, different religions. 

I don't have to like everything they do, but I respect them for it, after all we all bleed red don't we?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Andrea,

I don't think being gay is a choice. Do you, Andrea? I think we don't know nearly enough about it yet to make judgments, although some feel the way they do because of their religious convictions. I don't fault them, either - we're all just trying to do the best we can in this life. I really believe that. 

I've only known a few gay people, but they were very nice. I just have to like nice people - it's just a natural response. One was my room mother when I was teaching - excellent room mom. In fact, the two best room mothers I had were both out of the "mainstream." One was gay, and the other was just totally a free spirit. Some people were immediately suspicious of her because she had a bright blue streak in her hair. I must admit, I loved that about her! She was very kind, but did not worry about what others thought of her. They were both nice women and loved working with the kids.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Thou protest too much!! You do not believe that being gay is normal, what do you believe? Is it a choice? Can they be "turned". Why are you so upset? This is a discussion. You get very angry when someone disagrees with you. Have you ever check the facts of HIV/AIDS? If you write something you should be able to back it up.


Rocky,
You can argue with Jane, but why? She is a deeply religious woman who is following the teachings of her church. I'll bet money that Jane would be kind to anyone she met, gay or straight. 
It's great that you're open-minded about gays, but how about people who have been brought up a certain way, who have strong beliefs? They also have a right to their opinions and should be respected. They are trying to live a good life, and nowadays they are treated with almost as much name-calling as gays have been. Just because someone thinks the gay lifestyle is morally wrong doesn't mean they gay-bash or would hurt gays or ridicule them or do any of those other bad things. I dont' think we can be compassionate toward some and not toward others. We're all in this together,and we're all trying to live good lives as best we can. In my opinion.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

Point of Information - In most Aboriginal cultures of North America, being gay was considered to be normal. Prior to forced Christian indoctrination on reservations (reserves) and at boarding schools (residential schools), Native Americans recognized three genders: male, female and two-spirit. In Navaho, the term is 'nadleehi'. In Hawaiian, it is 'mahu'

http://twospirits.org/additional-resources

The reclaiming of the third gender is an integral part of the healing process from past social marginalization for many current Aboriginal groups.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Thou protest too much!! You do not believe that being gay is normal, what do you believe? Is it a choice? Can they be "turned". Why are you so upset? This is a discussion. You get very angry when someone disagrees with you. Have you ever check the facts of HIV/AIDS? If you write something you should be able to back it up.


Rocky, Rocky, why do you and your friends think when I voice my opinion, I'm upset? You and others are constantly saying I'm upset, but really that is just your way of bulling me--take a different tack as this one is worn out!

The only thing I wrote about HIV/AIDS was about the man in jail who was bisexual that police are having a diffult time with him.

I have noticed that you and others only take words that you want to protest not the entire quote.

Go bother someone else as you or others on this site do not bother me at all! I'm good! The rest of you need therapy!

Need that quarter?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Rocky,
> You can argue with Jane, but why? She is a deeply religious woman who is following the teachings of her church. I'll bet money that Jane would be kind to anyone she met, gay or straight.
> It's great that you're open-minded about gays, but how about people who have been brought up a certain way, who have strong beliefs? They also have a right to their opinions and should be respected. They are trying to live a good life, and nowadays they are treated with almost as much name-calling as gays have been. Just because someone thinks the gay lifestyle is morally wrong doesn't mean they gay-bash or would hurt gays or ridicule them or do any of those other bad things. I dont' think we can be compassionate toward some and not toward others. We're all in this together,and we're all trying to live good lives as best we can. In my opinion.


I agree, however when you post information that is just not true, am I not allowed to point out such discrepancies? When someone says that AIDS is a homosexual problem, that is just wrong. I was just pointing out that you can learn the facts. If her religious beliefs are so strong, fine, don't marry a gay person, but if anyone needs to take there out of the sand it is....


----------



## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

mojave said:


> Point of Information - In most Aboriginal cultures of North America, being gay was considered to be normal. Prior to forced Christian indoctrination on reservations (reserves) and at boarding schools (residential schools), Native Americans recognized three genders: male, female and two-spirit. In Navaho, the term is 'nadleehi'. In Hawaiian, it is 'mahu'
> 
> http://twospirits.org/additional-resources
> 
> The reclaiming of the third gender is an integral part of the healing process from past social marginalization for many current Aboriginal groups.


I have not heard of the two-spirit among my people as you are talking about. Again there is a lot of "garbage" on the net as people write to get their 15 minutes of fame. So not impressed.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

mojave said:


> Point of Information - In most Aboriginal cultures of North America, being gay was considered to be normal. Prior to forced Christian indoctrination on reservations (reserves) and at boarding schools (residential schools), Native Americans recognized three genders: male, female and two-spirit. In Navaho, the term is 'nadleehi'. In Hawaiian, it is 'mahu'
> 
> http://twospirits.org/additional-resources
> 
> The reclaiming of the third gender is an integral part of the healing process from past social marginalization for many current Aboriginal groups.


I did a quick search on this topic, because I was curious. But no where that I read was it considered normal, just different. This two spirit term was coined in 1990 by a gay and lesbian group. Many tribes did not have this concept and the Aztec outlawed it.

I only bring up this because by your post I got the impression that this two spirit concept was very mainstream and with every tribe. I also got the feeling of extreme anger with words such as indoctrination which I did not understand.

But it is always fun to learn new things


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thank you for the link, Mojave. It's absolutely fascinating.


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## Janeway (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm off this site as I'm tired of being bullied as there are better things to do in this world besides reading garbage from a bunch of people who think anything anyone wants to do is OK.

All of you have a good life as I know mine is great! I'm hitting the unwatched button. Goodbye! Don't PM me as I won't read them!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You are a busy lady! How old's the baby? We have a few of those, too - aren't they sweet? We have two 2-year olds and a 6 month old. And a lot of bigger ones. I shouldn't barge in on your conversation, but I just got back from visiting five of our grandchildren, and seeing "baby B," that's so sweet, it made me think of them.


Hi Bonnie,
Thje baby is 8 mos old on the 13th. She is such a hoot!
I never knew how wonderful grandparenthood could be!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Hey, Susan, were you the one who used the phrase "rat pack?"


No, I actually have to give Janeway credit for that, but since the original Rat Pack was comprised of folks like Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, and Sammy Davis Junior I find it rather flattering.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Not to mention Frank Sinatra, Joey Bishop and Dean Martin!


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I did a quick search on this topic, because I was curious. But no where that I read was it considered normal, just different. This two spirit term was coined in 1990 by a gay and lesbian group.
> But it is always fun to learn new things


The term two-spirit does come from the 1990's and is an English translation for a concept which had different names in the diverse aboriginal groups. I did not say all tribes had the concept; the vast majority of tribes did have the concept. The two spirits were often held in high esteem and having affinity for medical training, diplomacy and artistic ability.

The term indoctrination is appropriate. How would you respond to the police coming to take your children away to a boarding school where your religious beliefs are forbidden and your children beaten if they speak your native language?
In the United States and Canada, Native American children were forcibly removed from their parents' custody and placed in boarding schools. The BIA operated from a policy of "Kill the Indian, Save the Man". The Catholic Church and numerous Protestant churches jumped on the bandwagon, seeing it as a means to 'save souls'. The Churches ran most of the boarding schools and the school staff had to meet the qualification of being good, pious Christians. 
For the children, speaking their native language, wearing Indian jewelry or clothing, praying to their deities would result in extremely harsh punishments. Not praying to God/Jesus correctly, not praying long enough was severely punished. Beatings that broke skin and left scars, being forced to stand outdoors in one place for hours without food or water (regardless of weather), rape, working 14-16 hour days and many other crimes against children occurred in the boarding schools. 
Please do not write this off as something happening over a hundred years ago. The last residential school in Canada closed in the 1990's.
I am not condemning Christianity or the Bible. I am definitely condemning the sadistic, racist criminals who deemed it acceptable to use their religious beliefs to kidnap and indoctrinate children using extreme brutality.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to mention Frank Sinatra, Joey Bishop and Dean Martin!


For the most part good Democrats all--and Sinatra and Martin were both strong supporters of the Civil Rights Movement and refused to perform in clubs that would not allow African-American or Jewish performers. [to paraphrase Wikipedia].


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Andrea,
> 
> I don't think being gay is a choice. Do you, Andrea? I think we don't know nearly enough about it yet to make judgments, although some feel the way they do because of their religious convictions. I don't fault them, either - we're all just trying to do the best we can in this life. I really believe that.
> 
> I've only known a few gay people, but they were very nice. I just have to like nice people - it's just a natural response. One was my room mother when I was teaching - excellent room mom. In fact, the two best room mothers I had were both out of the "mainstream." One was gay, and the other was just totally a free spirit. Some people were immediately suspicious of her because she had a bright blue streak in her hair. I must admit, I loved that about her! She was very kind, but did not worry about what others thought of her. They were both nice women and loved working with the kids.


I know being gay is not a choice. I just wanted Janeway to think about it. I have a gay brother, so I'm a little familiar with gayness--if that's a word.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I grew up in Vegas, Andrea. I remember when Sammy Davis Jr. could perform on the strip, but had to stay in a hotel on the west side, which was a predominantly black community.
They did protest and let the Sands Hotel know that if Sammy wasn't good enough to stay in that hotel, then they would not perform there anymore. 
Of course I was very, very, very, young then


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to mention Frank Sinatra, Joey Bishop and Dean Martin!


OK, you guys, I'm old enough to know who the rat pack is. It was just that Janeway started using it to refer to "us" and then complained that Susan was name-calling. I think "rat pack" is name-calling, too. 
Things get confusing when time and space separate responses.
If you're totally confused by this post, that's OK. I'm old.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I know     
It's just that I loved the "Rat Pack". I forgot to mention Peter Lawford, too!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I know being gay is not a choice. I just wanted Janeway to think about it. I have a gay brother, so I'm a little familiar with gayness--if that's a word.


I held my tongue when Janeway asserted that their were no gay people in her family, but now that she's left us I can say that her statement seems unlikely. The gay population averages 3 to 6 percent worldwide--it seems doubtful that her family falls outside the statistical average.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

One of the most famous ancient Greeks was gay. Plato himself!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> OK, you guys, I'm old enough to know who the rat pack is. It was just that Janeway started using it to refer to "us" and then complained that Susan was name-calling. I think "rat pack" is name-calling, too.
> Things get confusing when time and space separate responses.
> If you're totally confused by this post, that's OK. I'm old.


Well, your mind is sharper than mine today--the simple truth that the term "rat pack" falls in the category of name calling completely escaped me. Or maybe I've come to accept the double-standard as the norm around here?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> One of the most famous ancient Greeks was gay. Plato himself!


Michael Angelo, Leonardo DaVinci


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

mojave said:


> Please do not write this off as something happening over a hundred years ago. The last residential school in Canada closed in the 1990's.


Yes, you're right, I just checked Wikipedia and enrollment in residential schools in the US peaked in the 1970s. I'm both appalled and bewildered that this was allowed to go on for so long, and that Native Americans could be coaxed and bullied into surrendering their children. I'm not trying to blame the victims here, just wondering what on earth the government did to these tribes to get them to go along these boarding school/workhouse hellholes.


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, you're right, I just checked Wikipedia and enrollment in residential schools in the US peaked in the 1970s. I'm both appalled and bewildered that this was allowed to go on for so long, and that Native Americans could be coaxed and bullied into surrendering their children. I'm not trying to blame the victims here, just wondering what on earth the government did to these tribes to get them to go along these boarding school/workhouse hellholes.


It was not unusual for the children to be taken at gunpoint by BIA agents, local police, the RCMP, sometimes U.S. Army troops.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I grew up in Vegas, Andrea. I remember when Sammy Davis Jr. could perform on the strip, but had to stay in a hotel on the west side, which was a predominantly black community.
> They did protest and let the Sands Hotel know that if Sammy wasn't good enough to stay in that hotel, then they would not perform there anymore.
> Of course I was very, very, very, young then


The Sands Hotel didn't like the bad publicity and it ended up being the Vegas hangout for the Rat Pack including Sammy. They knew which side their bread was buttered on. The Sands used this, Home of The Rat Pack ,as a promo item in their adds until the Hotel was torn down in the '80s.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Hi Cheeky. Are you getting more snow yet?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

We were so caught up in our own drivel that nobody mentioned the deaths of Margaret Thatcher or Annette Funicello. I can't really imagine using those names in the same sentence. I remember Annette from her Mousketeer days. And I remember Margaret from our Ronald Reagan days.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mojave said:


> It was not unusual for the children to be taken at gunpoint by BIA agents, local police, the RCMP, sometimes U.S. Army troops.


One of my girlfriends was from the Rosebud Sioux reservation in South Dakota. Her parents had 19 children and the government took away all the children except the 3 oldest who were over 18. My girlfriend ended up in Minneapolis at St. Joseph's Children's Home. She had been in and out of several foster homes where she was physically and sexually abused. She said after foster care the home was a far better place but far from ideal. This all began for her in the late 1950's and ended in the late 1960's when she turned 18. I wouldn't have known that this stuff was going on either if I had not met her. I often wonder what happened to her. I don't think the Catholic Church wanted the publicity about their part in the awful treatment of Native Americans here. The Church has a long history of persecuting Native peoples all over the world.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I was aware of both thanks to the General section of KP, but until now I haven't had the heart to comment on them. I still can't make heads or tails of Thatcher and what she supposedly stood for, and Funicello? Too sad. I remember when she was diagnosed with MS like thirty years ago, I'm rather shocked that she was able to fight it for so many years. Saw her as a young girl in reruns of the Mousketeer Club--really hard to think of that sweet thing crippled by such a horrible disease.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Hi Cheeky. Are you getting more snow yet?


No snow yet. I'll keep you posted. I think Patty will see it first.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> The Sands Hotel didn't like the bad publicity and it ended up being the Vegas hangout for the Rat Pack including Sammy. They knew which side their bread was buttered on. The Sands used this, Home of The Rat Pack ,as a promo item in their adds until the Hotel was torn down in the '80s.


Those were the days. I was just back there and I felt like a tourist.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Watching the news, trying to catch up, I just heard that the fillibuster for the gun laws has been terminated. Several republicans walked away from Mitch McConnell on this. Harry Reid will call a vote on Thursday. Yes!!!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, I actually have to give Janeway credit for that, but since the original Rat Pack was comprised of folks like Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, and Sammy Davis Junior I find it rather flattering.[/quote
> 
> Well, rather than be the Rat Pack, we could be the Bullfeather Babes! Anyone in?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Watching the news, trying to catch up, I just heard that the fillibuster for the gun laws has been terminated. Several republicans walked away from Mitch McConnell on this. Harry Reid will call a vote on Thursday. Yes!!!


Well how about that? Sanity prevails!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm off this site as I'm tired of being bullied as there are better things to do in this world besides reading garbage from a bunch of people who think anything anyone wants to do is OK.
> 
> All of you have a good life as I know mine is great! I'm hitting the unwatched button. Goodbye! Don't PM me as I won't read them!


I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Watching the news, trying to catch up, I just heard that the fillibuster for the gun laws has been terminated. Several republicans walked away from Mitch McConnell on this. Harry Reid will call a vote on Thursday. Yes!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No snow yet. I'll keep you posted. I think Patty will see it first.


the storm bringing you snow is hopefully bringing us much needed rain. The weatherman just said it will be cold here tomorrow - in the 50's. I am sure that is not cold to you! Our unusual high today was 83F. Ugh!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


There is no Santa???


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Watching the news, trying to catch up, I just heard that the fillibuster for the gun laws has been terminated. Several republicans walked away from Mitch McConnell on this. Harry Reid will call a vote on Thursday. Yes!!!


Thank goodness! Some republicans are waking up or afraid they won't get reelected. That is wonderful news.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Susan, my BIL has MS and has had it for 30 years. There are some medications that can keep it fairly under control. Unfortunately, he has cancer, stage 4 now.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan, my BIL has MS and has had it for 30 years. There are some medications that can keep it fairly under control. Unfortunately, he has cancer, stage 4 now.


That is sad - sorry to hear that.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


If Janeway and the others don't return I'll eat my hat--joyfully, as I'd rather force down a huge scratchy sombrero or even one of the QE's tinfoil helmets than put up with her and the rest of them for one second longer.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan, my BIL has MS and has had it for 30 years. There are some medications that can keep it fairly under control. Unfortunately, he has cancer, stage 4 now.


Ouch, I'm sorry


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> That is sad - sorry to hear that.


Thanks, GW. I always thought it would be the MS.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Susan, my BIL has MS and has had it for 30 years. There are some medications that can keep it fairly under control. Unfortunately, he has cancer, stage 4 now.


That's too bad about your BIL Patty. Susan is your husband ill too?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


It might require some to really look at their belief system which can be scary. It could rock their world.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > No, I actually have to give Janeway credit for that, but since the original Rat Pack was comprised of folks like Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, and Sammy Davis Junior I find it rather flattering.[/quote
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's too bad about your BIL Patty. Susan is your husband ill too?


Not in the least. He's 46 and fit as a fiddle.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you--if the dear ladies don't return [clicking my heels at the prospect] we certainly can discuss politics among ourselves. But it would be lots of fun to draw in some new folks too, as frankly I think this thread and its title have a really bad rep. We'd probably have to start a new one.


I think you are probably right. We can do that.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


Frankly I think the GOPers left--whether permanently or not--just because they were outnumbered. Al has commented on and I totally agree with the idea that it's very hard to hold one's own against six or eight hostile opponents. In the past few months its been about 10/2 in favor of the righties--now, amazingly, the tables are turned.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Ladies, it's been a long day for me. I am going to kick back and eat some ice cream. May be beck later if I can't sleep.
Have a good night!


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Too many of our legislators are in the pockets of the NRA.


Do you know why Japan didn't continue on and attack the mainland when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Because they feared the average citizen because they were armed.

Your saying the legislators are in the pockets of the NRA is an emotional statement and not one that is a fact. Do you know the statistics of what happens when states or cities are unarmed because of laws preventing gun ownership. Crime goes way up because criminals know the average citizen is unable to protect himself or his family. The police and 911 will not be able to protect you in time if your house is broken into they will be gone before the police arrive and you may be found dead. Why do you think these people are targeting schools, theaters and places where it is illegal to carry a gun? It is because they know that no one there will have a gun on them to defend themselves and others. That is why the NRA is suggesting that these places be allowed to carry guns and defend themselves and others should a shooter pick their place of business to target. You people need to educate yourselves and not make emotional-uneducated statements about gun control. You see guns as the enemy when they are not the enemy its the people carrying them. If gun control in whatever form it is presented is passed and the citizens are not allowed to carry guns what will happen to crime and your safety. As I said before the police will not be able to protect you and you will perhaps be found dead. Instead of gun control people need to be trained on how to safely use them and protect themselves if needed. There is a lot of propaganda out there which is just that propaganda. You need to know the truth. Look at what happened today where someone attacked people at the college in Texas = they didn't have guns they had knives. Criminals will have weapons regardless, as the law is irrelevant to them. Look up the statistics on what happens in cities when guns are banned like Chicago for example.
Take Germany before the 2nd World War. Hitler disarmed the citizens and they had no guns to protect themselves and he killed millions of his own citizens. Hitler, Stalin and the emperor of Japan all agreed not to attack the mainland of America due to the # of citizens who had guns outnumbered their own army. We need to rethink what we are doing and make sure it really is the answer to the problems we are dealing with.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ladies, it's been a long day for me. I am going to kick back and eat some ice cream. May be beck later if I can't sleep.
> Have a good night!


You too. Pleasant dreams!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I have not heard of the two-spirit among my people as you are talking about. Again there is a lot of "garbage" on the net as people write to get their 15 minutes of fame. So not impressed.


So, Jane, the accusation has been that people who are anti-gay have given out wrong information. It looks to me like misinformation comes from both sides. I just don't feel like taking the time to point it out any more. It's pointless. Take care, and have a good night.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Bonnie,
> Thje baby is 8 mos old on the 13th. She is such a hoot!
> I never knew how wonderful grandparenthood could be!


That's a great age. I feel the same way - never knew it could be this good. They are just so precious!


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Criminals will always be able to get weapons. Time and money should be spent to address the illegal guns , rather than taking away freedoms of law abiding citizens.


ruthann1942 said:


> Do you know why Japan didn't continue on and attack the mainland when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Because they feared the average citizen because they were armed.
> 
> Your saying the legislators are in the pockets of the NRA is an emotional statement and not one that is a fact. Do you know the statistics of what happens when states or cities are unarmed because of laws preventing gun ownership. Crime goes way up because criminals know the average citizen is unable to protect himself or his family. The police and 911 will not be able to protect you in time if your house is broken into they will be gone before the police arrive and you may be found dead. Why do you think these people are targeting schools, theaters and places where it is illegal to carry a gun? It is because they know that no one there will have a gun on them to defend themselves and others. That is why the NRA is suggesting that these places be allowed to carry guns and defend themselves and others should a shooter pick their place of business to target. You people need to educate yourselves and not make emotional-uneducated statements about gun control. You see guns as the enemy when they are not the enemy its the people carrying them. If gun control in whatever form it is presented is passed and the citizens are not allowed to carry guns what will happen to crime and your safety. As I said before the police will not be able to protect you and you will perhaps be found dead. Instead of gun control people need to be trained on how to safely use them and protect themselves if needed. There is a lot of propaganda out there which is just that propaganda. You need to know the truth. Look at what happened today where someone attacked people at the college in Texas = they didn't have guns they had knives. Criminals will have weapons regardless, as the law is irrelevant to them. Look up the statistics on what happens in cities when guns are banned like Chicago for example.
> Take Germany before the 2nd World War. Hitler disarmed the citizens and they had no guns to protect themselves and he killed millions of his own citizens. Hitler, Stalin and the emperor of Japan all agreed not to attack the mainland of America due to the # of citizens who had guns outnumbered their own army. We need to rethink what we are doing and make sure it really is the answer to the problems we are dealing with.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Not in the least. He's 46 and fit as a fiddle.


I am so happy to hear that. Lord only knows what I am thinking of!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I know being gay is not a choice. I just wanted Janeway to think about it. I have a gay brother, so I'm a little familiar with gayness--if that's a word.


You definitely have a good understanding then.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Criminals will always be able to get weapons. Time and money should be spent to address the illegal guns , rather than taking away freedoms of law abiding citizens.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Nobody's freedom is being taken away. Any upright citizen who owns guns will continue to own guns. The idea is just to make it a little more difficult to obtain a gun. Why should that bother any law-abiding, sane citizen.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you--if the dear ladies don't return [clicking my heels at the prospect] we certainly can discuss politics among ourselves. But it would be lots of fun to draw in some new folks too, and frankly I think this thread and its title now have a really bad rep. We'd probably have to start a new one.


I'm in. :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Do you know why Japan didn't continue on and attack the mainland when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Because they feared the average citizen because they were armed.
> 
> Your saying the legislators are in the pockets of the NRA is an emotional statement and not one that is a fact. Do you know the statistics of what happens when states or cities are unarmed because of laws preventing gun ownership. Crime goes way up because criminals know the average citizen is unable to protect himself or his family. The police and 911 will not be able to protect you in time if your house is broken into they will be gone before the police arrive and you may be found dead. Why do you think these people are targeting schools, theaters and places where it is illegal to carry a gun? It is because they know that no one there will have a gun on them to defend themselves and others. That is why the NRA is suggesting that these places be allowed to carry guns and defend themselves and others should a shooter pick their place of business to target. You people need to educate yourselves and not make emotional-uneducated statements about gun control. You see guns as the enemy when they are not the enemy its the people carrying them. If gun control in whatever form it is presented is passed and the citizens are not allowed to carry guns what will happen to crime and your safety. As I said before the police will not be able to protect you and you will perhaps be found dead. Instead of gun control people need to be trained on how to safely use them and protect themselves if needed. There is a lot of propaganda out there which is just that propaganda. You need to know the truth. Look at what happened today where someone attacked people at the college in Texas = they didn't have guns they had knives. Criminals will have weapons regardless, as the law is irrelevant to them. Look up the statistics on what happens in cities when guns are banned like Chicago for example.
> Take Germany before the 2nd World War. Hitler disarmed the citizens and they had no guns to protect themselves and he killed millions of his own citizens. Hitler, Stalin and the emperor of Japan all agreed not to attack the mainland of America due to the # of citizens who had guns outnumbered their own army. We need to rethink what we are doing and make sure it really is the answer to the problems we are dealing with.


You make some very valid points--I'm a Democrat and even I'm not in favor of a total ban on firearms. I have no problem with hunting if the hunter is skilled enough to make his or her kill in one or two shots, and if the meat is consumed or given to someone who needs it. And I don't believe I could tell a woman who's fled an abusive relationship to use a baseball bat or kitchen knife if she feels she needs protection.
But a little regulation couldn't hurt--mandatory safety classes, registration, perhaps liability insurance in case the neighbor's kid get hold of your weapon and blows his toes off.
The problem seems to be that folks on both sides of the issue see gun control as an all-or-nothing proposition--either a total ban, or people buying them as casually as they might a bottle of aspirin.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I grew up in Vegas, Andrea. I remember when Sammy Davis Jr. could perform on the strip, but had to stay in a hotel on the west side, which was a predominantly black community.
> They did protest and let the Sands Hotel know that if Sammy wasn't good enough to stay in that hotel, then they would not perform there anymore.
> Of course I was very, very, very, young then


I remember a long time ago when a friend of mine and her young family took a vacation and couldn't find a place to stay. When she told me about it, I said, "Just imagine what it's like for blacks." Actually, we didn't use the term "black" back then, can't remember what I said - definitely NOT a bad term - never used it. But it opened my eyes to think how awful it would be to not have a place to stay on the road. Something as simple as that and something I hadn't considered.

It was a very sad and hard time. I had lots of arguments with a wonderful sweet kind uncle of mine who was very prejudiced.

Even that was a huge learning experience for me. Here was a man who, as far as I knew had never done a mean or even angry thing in his life, yet he was very prejudiced. It was the way he was brought up.

So I loved him anyway, nothing could change that. And that's what sometimes makes life so daggone confusing. Years later, he said to me that he realized he felt that way not because they weren't as good as he was, but because that's just the way he was brought up. People learn.

We all have something to learn along the way.

Enough of my past and philosophy. Sorry to have been so long-winded and irrelevant to others.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Criminals will always be able to get weapons. Time and money should be spent to address the illegal guns , rather than taking away freedoms of law abiding citizens.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


A cursory search reveals this. I'm busy or I'd do more. Everyone knows that the NRA makes "contributions" to several political leaders.

http://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?cycle=2012&id=D000000082


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> OK, you guys, I'm old enough to know who the rat pack is. It was just that Janeway started using it to refer to "us" and then complained that Susan was name-calling. I think "rat pack" is name-calling, too.
> Things get confusing when time and space separate responses.
> If you're totally confused by this post, that's OK. I'm old.


You're old? You don't sound old! Thank goodness if you are - I thought I was the only one. Your post is fine - especially considering my rambling reminiscing that means nothing to anyone.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> You definitely have a good understanding then.


Bonnie you are back! Is Janeway right behind you? See you can't stay away or did you forget to "Unwatch"? There must be something you like about us. Admit it, you enjoy our company. :-D


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We were so caught up in our own drivel that nobody mentioned the deaths of Margaret Thatcher or Annette Funicello. I can't really imagine using those names in the same sentence. I remember Annette from her Mousketeer days. And I remember Margaret from our Ronald Reagan days.


I was sorry to hear of both of them. One tough and one sweet. Actually, Annette was probably a lot tougher than she looked because she dealt with MS for a long time.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It was a very sad and hard time. I had lots of arguments with a wonderful sweet kind uncle of mine who was very prejudiced.
> 
> Even that was a huge learning experience for me. Here was a man who, as far as I knew had never done a mean or even angry thing in his life, yet he was very prejudiced. It was the way he was brought up.


I think we all know folks like that--I mentioned once before that my BIL is anti-Semitic, yet he's also a sweetheart and would never go out of his way to taunt or upset a Jewish friend or colleague. The bigoted words and phrases flow from his lips like water, but he's from the older generation and grew up in a rough working-class Catholic neighborhood. He's simply parroting back what he learned as a child.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie you are back! Is Janeway right behind you? See you can't stay away or did you forget to "Unwatch"? There must be something you like about us. Admit it, you enjoy our company. :-D


I'd sure like to think so!  How about us taking a vow to be polite and courteous to each other from here on out? I can only speak for myself, but I'd like an opportunity to shed that thick and prickly skin I seemed to have developed over the last few months.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> If Janeway and the others don't return I'll eat my hat--joyfully, as I'd rather force down a huge scratchy sombrero or even one of the QE's tinfoil helmets than put up with her and the rest of them for one second longer.


*******************
I came back because I am weak - WEAK I tell you! And nosy - too nosy for my own good. I don't want to miss anything.

But - I don't like arguing. Beneath my exterior which some people consider conservative beats a bleeding heart. I know it's sickening, but I like to play nice. I like to find common ground. I find that kind of problem-solving very gratifying, and I love finding that tiny place of agreement with someone who is diametrically opposed to my views and vice versa. Don't know why I'm like this - probably got it from my mother. I enjoy discussing without anger. Sharing ideas and getting down to the nitty gritty to comprehend.

I like to be friends. My Dad always said I was corny.

Getting mad makes me into a person I don't want to be, mean and with high blood pressure. So if it gets nasty, I'll take a break. I can't take the heat, so I get out of the kitchen.

So I'm back. Still very afraid of some of you.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie you are back! Is Janeway right behind you? See you can't stay away or did you forget to "Unwatch"? There must be something you like about us. Admit it, you enjoy our company. :-D


I'll admit it, it's as disturbingly fascinating as a train wreck. I have another long, boring post explaining why I'm back. :shock:


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think we all know folks like that--I mentioned once before that my BIL is anti-Semitic, yet he's also a sweetheart and would never go out of his way to taunt or upset a Jewish friend or colleague. The bigoted words and phrases flow from his lips like water, but he's from the older generation and grew up in a rough working-class Catholic neighborhood. He's simply parroting back what he learned as a child.


Yes - exactly! Love is an amazing thing, isn't it?


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

We sure have some good decent people on KP. Yearly, about 30,000 americans die of gunshot wounds.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'd sure like to think so!  How about us taking a vow to be polite and courteous to each other from here on out? I can only speak for myself, but I'd sure like an opportunity to shed that thick and prickly skin I seemed to have developed over the last few months.


Yes. I never talk to people in person the way I go on in here. I even found myself enjoying spouting off, and I used to get so annoyed with people who did that. It makes me disgusted with myself, so I had to take a little break. A very little break - curiosity. Besides, everyone on here has expressed kindness and tolerance in one way or another, and that draws me in.


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

Religion, as it was called here, has sometimes hurt itself by its actions. But there is a difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is a set of rules made up by man as his interpretation on how to live - some based on Biblical principles and sometimes on man's own selfish desires. A relationship with Jesus Christ/God is a totally different thing and that is what they desire. To have this relationship you must give up your own life to live the life that God asks of you. His first and most important commandment is "love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." If that commandment permeated how we lived our lives we would have little need of the others. God's commandments are made for our own good yet people reject them and choose to live their own lives built on their own wants and desires and this is what causes problems. Humanism has taught us to give up absolutes and live our lives based on our own beliefs and to do what we want rather than obey the commandments of God. That is what has gotten us in the trouble we are in today. It isn't a woman's right to abort a child she is carrying and I am not condemning anyone that has done that. God is a forgiving God and will forgive if asked to from one's heart. But God says we shouldn't sleep around with anyone and should reserve our purity for marriage. Now if we did that one thing look at how many social problems would be solved. But sadly that isn't the case and unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases happen as a result. I know several people that gave up a drug, promiscuous lifestyle to commit their lives to Christ. It can be done with His help.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Religion, as it was called here, has sometimes hurt itself by its actions. But there is a difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is a set of rules made up by man as his interpretation on how to live - some based on Biblical principles and sometimes on man's own selfish desires. A relationship with Jesus Christ/God is a totally different thing and that is what they desire. To have this relationship you must give up your own life to live the life that God asks of you. His first and most important commandment is "love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." If that commandment permeated how we lived our lives we would have little need of the others. God's commandments are made for our own good yet people reject them and choose to live their own lives built on their own wants and desires and this is what causes problems. Humanism has taught us to give up absolutes and live our lives based on our own beliefs and to do what we want rather than obey the commandments of God. That is what has gotten us in the trouble we are in today. It isn't a woman's right to abort a child she is carrying and I am not condemning anyone that has done that. God is a forgiving God and will forgive if asked to from one's heart. But God says we shouldn't sleep around with anyone and should reserve our purity for marriage. Now if we did that one thing look at how many social problems would be solved. But sadly that isn't the case and unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases happen as a result. I know several people that gave up a drug, promiscuous lifestyle to commit their lives to Christ. It can be done with His help.


***************************
Yes, it can. You are courageous to express all this, and I believe that what you say is true.
Bonnie


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

mojave said:


> The term two-spirit does come from the 1990's and is an English translation for a concept which had different names in the diverse aboriginal groups. I did not say all tribes had the concept; the vast majority of tribes did have the concept. The two spirits were often held in high esteem and having affinity for medical training, diplomacy and artistic ability.
> 
> The term indoctrination is appropriate. How would you respond to the police coming to take your children away to a boarding school where your religious beliefs are forbidden and your children beaten if they speak your native language?
> In the United States and Canada, Native American children were forcibly removed from their parents' custody and placed in boarding schools. The BIA operated from a policy of "Kill the Indian, Save the Man". The Catholic Church and numerous Protestant churches jumped on the bandwagon, seeing it as a means to 'save souls'. The Churches ran most of the boarding schools and the school staff had to meet the qualification of being good, pious Christians.
> ...


Yes, as a Christian, I too condemn the treatment of these children. They should have been left with their parents and not kidnapped but educated and allowed to live within their own culture. As I have read the Indians were severely mistreated by the United States government. God is a God of justice. I wonder how He will bring justice to them.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Yes, as a Christian, I too condemn the treatment of these children. They should have been left with their parents and not kidnapped but educated and allowed to live within their own culture. As I have read the Indians were severely mistreated by the United States government. God is a God of justice. I wonder how He will bring justice to them.


I can't defend the horrible treatment of these children, but I honestly believe the folks in charge generally thought they were doing a good thing. Call it lack of respect for other cultures, bigotry fueled by ignorance, whatever--but I hope God would be charitable and judge them by their intentions rather than the terrible outcome.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ruthann and Bonnie - I think if we all sat down face to face we would probably find we have a lot of things in common and some differences. I respect your beliefs and I hope you will respect mine. I have seen too many people hurt in the name of religion but I have also seen decent people of all faiths do wonderful things for others. I do believe we can discuss things with each other that we don't agree on but in a respectful way. When we take pokes at each other it does not help but we should also not get defensive if someone doesn't agree with us. There is no hurt in trying if we come out here to interact in good faith and leave our poking sticks at home we may all feel a lot better and learn something too. I do think we all have what I like to call "our better angels".


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Good night


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Religion, as it was called here, has sometimes hurt itself by its actions. But there is a difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is a set of rules made up by man as his interpretation on how to live - some based on Biblical principles and sometimes on man's own selfish desires. A relationship with Jesus Christ/God is a totally different thing and that is what they desire. To have this relationship you must give up your own life to live the life that God asks of you. His first and most important commandment is "love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." If that commandment permeated how we lived our lives we would have little need of the others. God's commandments are made for our own good yet people reject them and choose to live their own lives built on their own wants and desires and this is what causes problems. Humanism has taught us to give up absolutes and live our lives based on our own beliefs and to do what we want rather than obey the commandments of God. That is what has gotten us in the trouble we are in today. It isn't a woman's right to abort a child she is carrying and I am not condemning anyone that has done that. God is a forgiving God and will forgive if asked to from one's heart. But God says we shouldn't sleep around with anyone and should reserve our purity for marriage. Now if we did that one thing look at how many social problems would be solved. But sadly that isn't the case and unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases happen as a result. I know several people that gave up a drug, promiscuous lifestyle to commit their lives to Christ. It can be done with His help.


Lovely Ruth Ann


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ruthann and Bonnie - I think if we all sat down face to face we would probably find we have a lot of things in common and some differences. I respect your beliefs and I hope you will respect mine. I have seen too many people hurt in the name of religion but I have also seen decent people of all faiths do wonderful things for others. I do believe we can discuss things with each other that we don't agree on but in a respectful way. When we take pokes at each other it does not help but we should also not get defensive if someone doesn't agree with us. There is no hurt in trying if we come out here to interact in good faith and leave our poking sticks at home we may all feel a lot better and learn something too. I do think we all have what I like to call "our better angels".


Very nice. Let's do it! (Our poking sticks - boy, that's a good way to put it.)


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> So, Jane, the accusation has been that people who are anti-gay have given out wrong information. It looks to me like misinformation comes from both sides. I just don't feel like taking the time to point it out any more. It's pointless. Take care, and have a good night.


If you are referring to the two spirit information, it is not misinformation. If I want people to learn more about a topic, it is easiest to give a few websites as a long lecture tends to bore people. 
My personal sources of information are gay and straight aboriginals (from several different tribes across the US) trying to reconstruct their cultures. It is a tough task to reconstruct one's indigenous culture when there has been centuries of deliberate culture genocide by a conquering power. Sometimes all or most of the indigenous language is unknown to a tribal member. That person has to express tribal culture in English because that is the only language known by the person.

Sometimes the best sources of knowledge about a tribe's culture are 19th century anthropological sources. Those anthropologists were Christians and as Christians were taught to condemn anyone not following the traditionally-defined roles of men and women. Those anthropologists sometimes did not recognize a two-spirit person and if recognition did occur - it tended to be left out of the research notes due to the negative assessment.
Now add in the influence of the Christian run boarding schools which Indian children were forced to attend.

See where I am going with how knowledge was lost and also deliberately destroyed? The process of figuring out who one is can be very difficult for an aboriginal because they are not white and may have a different worldview. And extensive loss of aboriginal culture does not leave enough of a society to find a positive, self-affirming definition of what it means to be aboriginal.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I'm going to turn in myself. Good night all.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Same here - time to call it a day. Good night, ladies. (Isn't that a song?)


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This topic was pretty much the property of the Righties until very recently. Some of us found our way here and presto, chango there were a bunch of lefties here too. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? I can understand why some of the righties who felt they had created a quiet oasis away from anyone or anything remotely liberal. They could either accept change or reject it. Obviously, after Yarnie's explosion last Friday we know how those people felt. This will probably happen over and over again. The most judgmental thing I can say after all that's happened is "oh. well". Keep tuning in for the next twist in the soap opera. I'm too sleepy to wonder what will happen next. Goodnight, ladies. We'll live to discuss whatever another day.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

Obamacare is typical liberal thinking. Do something -- anything-- and as long as it costs money the problem will be taken care of. But in this case they are attacking the wrong part of the problem. Having health insurance is not the same as having affordable health care. It's the cost of health care that's the problem not the cost or availability of insurance! People can be insurance poor and still not be able to meet the costs of their health care. I'm talking about exorbitant doctor bills, impossible rates for hospital care, and medications that cost more in a month than the mortgage! If they want to do something about the cost of health care, they will bring those costs down and forget about that stupid insurance!

Sorry. Had to vent.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

RE: Gay Marriage

There have been many gay adoptions. If one parent should pre-decease, the remaining parent's rights to custody can be complicated. I don't think this is fair to the adopted children. 

Should spouses be entitled to covering each other under their benefits at work? Wonder if they have been together for decades and one is unable to work. Do you think this is fair?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think of grandchildren as the reward for the teenage years. Rejoice and enjoy. A baby at this stage of our lives is the greatest reward.



BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Bonnie,
> Thje baby is 8 mos old on the 13th. She is such a hoot!
> I never knew how wonderful grandparenthood could be!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If they ever go on the warpath, I'm with them. I find it appalling the way we broke treaties and stole their land and culture.



susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, you're right, I just checked Wikipedia and enrollment in residential schools in the US peaked in the 1970s. I'm both appalled and bewildered that this was allowed to go on for so long, and that Native Americans could be coaxed and bullied into surrendering their children. I'm not trying to blame the victims here, just wondering what on earth the government did to these tribes to get them to go along these boarding school/workhouse hellholes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Annette Funicello and Margaret Thatcher.

It is odd that the announcements of their deaths created a link between the two.

I was proud that a woman became Prime Minister for UK. I did not like the conservative politics. It's sad that her last years were spent hidden away with Altzheimers.

I loved Annette although she never seemed to go through the rebellious years. It's such a shame she spent her last years in a coma.

I hope for a quick death with all my marbles.



alcameron said:


> We were so caught up in our own drivel that nobody mentioned the deaths of Margaret Thatcher or Annette Funicello. I can't really imagine using those names in the same sentence. I remember Annette from her Mousketeer days. And I remember Margaret from our Ronald Reagan days.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Catholic Church is responsible for more than sexual abuse scandal.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> One of my girlfriends was from the Rosebud Sioux reservation in South Dakota. Her parents had 19 children and the government took away all the children except the 3 oldest who were over 18. My girlfriend ended up in Minneapolis at St. Joseph's Children's Home. She had been in and out of several foster homes where she was physically and sexually abused. She said after foster care the home was a far better place but far from ideal. This all began for her in the late 1950's and ended in the late 1960's when she turned 18. I wouldn't have known that this stuff was going on either if I had not met her. I often wonder what happened to her. I don't think the Catholic Church wanted the publicity about their part in the awful treatment of Native Americans here. The Church has a long history of persecuting Native peoples all over the world.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm in. I'm in. Bullfeather babes!



GWPlver said:


> susanmos2000 said:
> 
> 
> > No, I actually have to give Janeway credit for that, but since the original Rat Pack was comprised of folks like Humphrey Bogart, Lauren Bacall, and Sammy Davis Junior I find it rather flattering.[/quote
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've always looked for something new......places, cultures, ideas.....never mattered. I think that's why hearing close-minded things make me frustrated. I love open discussions and new ideas.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Janeway will be back? Bonnie said she was unwatching us too but she came back. Off2knit hasn't left has she? We are hard to resist. I don't buy into religion or someone being so religious that they can't accept something like Gay people. It seems to me that some of our friends on the right don't even want to learn anything that may challenge their beliefs. It reminds me of when I was little and I kept going along with my belief in Santa Claus as I just had that little bit of doubt and if anyone found out I wasn't a true believer, "Oh No, No more Santa!" What would I do then? Life as I knew it would never be the same. But I survived that and I learned a lot about a lot of things and it has only made my life better not worse. I don't understand the fear of finding out the truth. The truth does set you free and the people out here who get so defensive just seem like somebody is going to burst their bubble and OMG where would that leave them? Any thoughts on my rambling are welcome.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll follow you anywhere.



GWPlver said:


> I think you are probably right. We can do that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And it makes my day.



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly I think the GOPers left--whether permanently or not--just because they were outnumbered. Al has commented on and I totally agree with the idea that it's very hard to hold one's own against six or eight hostile opponents. In the past few months its been about 10/2 in favor of the righties--now, amazingly, the tables are turned.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agree.



alcameron said:


> Nobody's freedom is being taken away. Any upright citizen who owns guns will continue to own guns. The idea is just to make it a little more difficult to obtain a gun. Why should that bother any law-abiding, sane citizen.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for sharing bonbf. I've had dear relatives who believed as your uncle did....for the same reason. I don't know how we broke the chain, but we did. May experience and truth save us all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome back, bonbf. I think we will find interesting discussion now.



bonbf3 said:


> *******************
> I came back because I am weak - WEAK I tell you! And nosy - too nosy for my own good. I don't want to miss anything.
> 
> But - I don't like arguing. Beneath my exterior which some people consider conservative beats a bleeding heart. I know it's sickening, but I like to play nice. I like to find common ground. I find that kind of problem-solving very gratifying, and I love finding that tiny place of agreement with someone who is diametrically opposed to my views and vice versa. Don't know why I'm like this - probably got it from my mother. I enjoy discussing without anger. Sharing ideas and getting down to the nitty gritty to comprehend.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't want to take guns away from everyone........just make it as difficult as possible to keep guns with large magazines from the wrong hands. I truly believe we can come to some common sense conclusions. The pictures of Sandy Hook will always be with me. In their honor.



Knitish said:


> We sure have some good decent people on KP. Yearly, about 30,000 americans die of gunshot wounds.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you're being too kind. Good intentions are not enough.



susanmos2000 said:


> I can't defend the horrible treatment of these children, but I honestly believe the folks in charge generally thought they were doing a good thing. Call it lack of respect for other cultures, bigotry fueled by ignorance, whatever--but I hope God would be charitable and judge them by their intentions rather than the terrible outcome.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My thoughts exactly. Please feel free to remind me if I fall short. I look forward to interesting discussion.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ruthann and Bonnie - I think if we all sat down face to face we would probably find we have a lot of things in common and some differences. I respect your beliefs and I hope you will respect mine. I have seen too many people hurt in the name of religion but I have also seen decent people of all faiths do wonderful things for others. I do believe we can discuss things with each other that we don't agree on but in a respectful way. When we take pokes at each other it does not help but we should also not get defensive if someone doesn't agree with us. There is no hurt in trying if we come out here to interact in good faith and leave our poking sticks at home we may all feel a lot better and learn something too. I do think we all have what I like to call "our better angels".


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We adopted Hiro about 4 yrs ago and this is the first time he's ever been sick. I looked all over the house and dog run area for remnants of anything he might have eaten, but there was nothing. He eats one of the NutroMax foods and Lucy, who can eat no grain or meat eats Natural Balance fish and sweet potato. Hiro sometimes gets cooked chicken, too. Both our dogs have good appetites, but when Lucy is going to have a IBS flare up, she doesn't want to eat as heartily. I use prednisone for flare ups, but I don't give it unless absolutely necessary, because I don't like that medication. We tried other things, but the limited amount of pred does the trick very rapidly.


Mercifully, there is much information about feeding pets nowadays. Susan Thixton puts out a wonderful newsletter(can't think of the name, Google her for more info) What's scary is how many vets know so little about appropriate pet nutrition. Hill's Science Diet was the sole donor of pet foods to veterinary colleges for a long time, and that caused the majority of vets to recommend their products. Keep investigating, your pets will be all the more happy and healthy for your findings.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

damemary said:


> Welcome back, bonbf. I think we will find interesting discussion now.


Bonf, your qualities don't necessarily make you a "bleeding heart liberal." More likely, a basically decent person.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I remember a long time ago when a friend of mine and her young family took a vacation and couldn't find a place to stay. When she told me about it, I said, "Just imagine what it's like for blacks." Actually, we didn't use the term "black" back then, can't remember what I said - definitely NOT a bad term - never used it. But it opened my eyes to think how awful it would be to not have a place to stay on the road. Something as simple as that and something I hadn't considered.
> 
> It was a very sad and hard time. I had lots of arguments with a wonderful sweet kind uncle of mine who was very prejudiced.
> 
> ...


Bon, you're absolutely right when you say that people have to be taught their views. It's so sad that knee-jerk reactions continue so easily and without much thought. I tried my darndest to have my daughter think for herself and see what the truth of any matter is. Of course, she's just in her twenties and has a lot of maturing to do. There is no substitute for education and experience.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Religion, as it was called here, has sometimes hurt itself by its actions. But there is a difference between religion and a relationship with Jesus Christ. Religion is a set of rules made up by man as his interpretation on how to live - some based on Biblical principles and sometimes on man's own selfish desires. A relationship with Jesus Christ/God is a totally different thing and that is what they desire. To have this relationship you must give up your own life to live the life that God asks of you. His first and most important commandment is "love the Lord God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself." If that commandment permeated how we lived our lives we would have little need of the others. God's commandments are made for our own good yet people reject them and choose to live their own lives built on their own wants and desires and this is what causes problems. Humanism has taught us to give up absolutes and live our lives based on our own beliefs and to do what we want rather than obey the commandments of God. That is what has gotten us in the trouble we are in today. It isn't a woman's right to abort a child she is carrying and I am not condemning anyone that has done that. God is a forgiving God and will forgive if asked to from one's heart. But God says we shouldn't sleep around with anyone and should reserve our purity for marriage. Now if we did that one thing look at how many social problems would be solved. But sadly that isn't the case and unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases happen as a result. I know several people that gave up a drug, promiscuous lifestyle to commit their lives to Christ. It can be done with His help.


Ruthann, that might be your truth, but it isn't everyone's. Pushing one's religious beliefs on others is disrespectful. And "missions," where various churches travel to other countries to try and convert the "natives" is nothing buyt cultural genocide.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> There is no Santa???


I have a special needs relative who still believes in Santa Claus. The members of her educational team saw this as a "reality problem," but I say that if it makes the kid happy, it isn't hurting her.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> I'm sorry, in order for you to insult me, I must first value your opinion. Nice try though!
> 
> I have a right to my opinion, and you have the right to be offended or get over it. Either way, I'm good!
> 
> No one in my family has "ever" been gay so speak for yourself! We have our heads on straight!


No insult intended here, just a "you gotta be kidding" statement. I'm not offended, I'm not gay, and all I can feel for you is sadness.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love that good old Wilson Pickett song! :thumbup:


I like the Tony Joe White version better. That boy was hot!

Karen N. (old but not dead!!)


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> Do you know why Japan didn't continue on and attack the mainland when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Because they feared the average citizen because they were armed.
> 
> Your saying the legislators are in the pockets of the NRA is an emotional statement and not one that is a fact. Do you know the statistics of what happens when states or cities are unarmed because of laws preventing gun ownership. Crime goes way up because criminals know the average citizen is unable to protect himself or his family. The police and 911 will not be able to protect you in time if your house is broken into they will be gone before the police arrive and you may be found dead. Why do you think these people are targeting schools, theaters and places where it is illegal to carry a gun? It is because they know that no one there will have a gun on them to defend themselves and others. That is why the NRA is suggesting that these places be allowed to carry guns and defend themselves and others should a shooter pick their place of business to target. You people need to educate yourselves and not make emotional-uneducated statements about gun control. You see guns as the enemy when they are not the enemy its the people carrying them. If gun control in whatever form it is presented is passed and the citizens are not allowed to carry guns what will happen to crime and your safety. As I said before the police will not be able to protect you and you will perhaps be found dead. Instead of gun control people need to be trained on how to safely use them and protect themselves if needed. There is a lot of propaganda out there which is just that propaganda. You need to know the truth. Look at what happened today where someone attacked people at the college in Texas = they didn't have guns they had knives. Criminals will have weapons regardless, as the law is irrelevant to them. Look up the statistics on what happens in cities when guns are banned like Chicago for example.
> Take Germany before the 2nd World War. Hitler disarmed the citizens and they had no guns to protect themselves and he killed millions of his own citizens. Hitler, Stalin and the emperor of Japan all agreed not to attack the mainland of America due to the # of citizens who had guns outnumbered their own army. We need to rethink what we are doing and make sure it really is the answer to the problems we are dealing with.


Souces, please? Especially regarding the first paragraph--

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

That is real life and believe me there were NO gay animals down on the farm as the animals are too smart for that stupid behavior.

Having farmers in my family, and having dated a few, I can tell you that animals are not "too smart for that stupid behavior." Animals are driven by instinct, not "smarts." When that mating instinct manifests, the nearest animal of that species will suffice.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> What is your advise on getting whole wheat to rise? I make bread at least 5 times a week. I only but in 1 cup of ww because I can't get it to rise like bread flower. I haven't found bread flour for ww yet in my area.


You could try adding some dough conditioner to your recipe--check out the King Arthur site. Lots of helpful info and products--

Karen N.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you--if the dear ladies don't return [clicking my heels at the prospect] we certainly can discuss politics among ourselves. But it would be lots of fun to draw in some new folks too, and frankly I think this thread and its title now have a really bad rep. We'd probably have to start a new one.


That sounds like a terrific idea! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Get real as some animals are just mean just the same as humans are mean to other humans such as some on this site.
> 
> Down on the farm, you cannot allow one animal to hurt other animals as you put them down as you "must" have peace in the barnyard.
> 
> Did you read what some on here did to Yarnie and me? The rat pack really unleashed their hatred on us because of our physical disability!


I have to say that I haven't read about how "the rat pack really unleashed thair hatred on us because of our physical disability."
(I'm physically disabled also, and not one person has every made fun of me or expressed hatred. I suspect it's your mindset that upsets people.) Having been around farm animals, I haven't seen farmers beat anything living. They just know the better ways to kaap their animals in line, I guess.

Karen N.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

To those that talk about a competent trainer. We are competent trainers. This is not our first dog. We've had dogs for over 30 years and know how to train them.


You might think you're a competent trainer, but I doubt that.

Karen N.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

maysmom said:


> I have to say that I haven't read about how "the rat pack really unleashed thair hatred on us because of our physical disability."
> (I'm physically disabled also, and not one person has every made fun of me or expressed hatred. I suspect it's your mindset that upsets people.) Having been around farm animals, I haven't seen farmers beat anything living. They just know the better ways to kaap their animals in line, I guess.
> 
> Karen N.


This whole thing can be read on "Smoking and Obamacare #6 and it begins on page 36 (yes, I did go back to find the page because it is MUCH to complicated to begin to explain). 
I am physically disabled as well, and have never had an unkind word or insinuation regarding my disability on this thread (only an ignorant/stereotypical comment about the Jewish religion) . So, read and judge it for yourself and you will have a better understanding of what is really going on regarding the "The Yarnie Incident".


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> RE: Gay Marriage
> 
> There have been many gay adoptions. If one parent should pre-decease, the remaining parent's rights to custody can be complicated. I don't think this is fair to the adopted children.
> 
> Should spouses be entitled to covering each other under their benefits at work? Wonder if they have been together for decades and one is unable to work. Do you think this is fair?


We ran into this issue with a teammate who passed in October. Her partner and her had split about a year before she got sick but while together they had adopted and the girl is now 10. Throw into the mix grandparents, aunts, etc. It amazes me how, even when they should be thinking about this poor young girl and the helping her cope with the loss of one of her mothers, they only think of themselves. The other mom was even so contentious as to refuse to provide information so our company could give the girl survivor benefits due her.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

maysmom said:


> To those that talk about a competent trainer. We are competent trainers. This is not our first dog. We've had dogs for over 30 years and know how to train them.
> 
> You might think you're a competent trainer, but I doubt that.
> 
> Karen N.


Nice. This is not our first dog.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> RE: Gay Marriage
> 
> There have been many gay adoptions. If one parent should pre-decease, the remaining parent's rights to custody can be complicated. I don't think this is fair to the adopted children.
> 
> Should spouses be entitled to covering each other under their benefits at work? Wonder if they have been together for decades and one is unable to work. Do you think this is fair?


Fair? I don't know - but I don't object to it. I don't mind if two sisters, two brothers, two cousins, two friends, move in together and want to claim each other as beneficiaries, etc. As far as I'm concerned, any two people can join together to do the financial stuff. As far as what they do in private, that's private and not my concern. In fact, I think it should remain private. Husbands and wives don't advertise what goes on in the privacy of their boudoirs, and I think it should be the same for gay couples. Let's keep some personal things to ourselves.

I do think, however, that churches have the right not to perform marriage ceremonies that go against their beliefs. Civil unions - no problem for me.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

In DC sniffling at the cherry blossoms

The Yarnie Incident as you so casually dismiss, was about cruelly ganging up on someone that was obviously in distress, not herself, and the following righteous indignation dismissal of their responsibility to her stress, that some of us thought it was cruel. 

But back to Obamaville. Must have missed that sequestration was over, big gala at the WH last night. Who paid for that? So there can be a private gala at the WH but no tours. Does that seem right? I don't think so.

What site is Yarnie on?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> The Catholic Church is responsible for more than sexual abuse scandal.


Damemary,

Yes, it is - thank you for saying that.

The Catholic church also has a history of doing great things for humanity - schools, hospitals, charities. It has gone to difficult places to help, and its people have died in the service of others. It is a steadfast defender of the helpless. It is made up of human beings who are imperfect. It is also made up of some beautiful human beings who sacrifice every day for others. Mother Theresa is one, an extremely self-sacrificing and loving person who is revered by the Catholic church for her humble and Christ-like life.

When the Catholic church discovered the scandalous abuse, it responded in the then medically accepted way of rehabilitation for pedophiles. Years have taught us that this seldom works, but at the time it was the accepted practice.

It has sought out and helped those who are often shunned, people with leprosy, prisoners, aids sufferers, unwed mothers, the poor, the sick and dying, the mentally ill, the homeless.

It has also remained steadfast to its beliefs, not changing due to the whims and wishes of society. It has been truly a rock of stability, a moral touchstone for many, a courageous seeker and defender of truth - for two thousand years.

I converted to Catholicism about forty years ago, and it has brought me strength and joy that I never would have imagined. And so I feel I must present the other side when the shortcomings of my church are pointed out.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I've always looked for something new......places, cultures, ideas.....never mattered. I think that's why hearing close-minded things make me frustrated. I love open discussions and new ideas.


There are many very intelligent and educated people of faith. You don't have to be stupid to believe in God. Just as you don't have to be smart to believe there is no God.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> And it makes my day.


Damemary, what makes your day? I can't tell from the way the posts are arranged.
Bonnie


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

marykelly said:


> If they want to do something about the cost of health care, they will bring those costs down and forget about that stupid insurance!


I'm not sure the legitimate costs CAN be brought down. Good health care, like any other quality product, is going to cost a pretty penny. Quite honestly it seems that we get what we pay for, whether the item in question is a vacuum cleaner, a new car, or a reasonably competent doctor.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I've always looked for something new......places, cultures, ideas.....never mattered. I think that's why hearing close-minded things make me frustrated. I love open discussions and new ideas.


Conan,
My thought is that after your kind words last night you are again saying insulting things. I am very disappointed as I was hoping to have some friendly conversations. Also, I think Damemary said she she's happy that those of us labelled as "on the right" have left. If that's the case, I see no reason to stay. I'm sorry to leave people like SeattleSoul and Thumper, but I'm not masochistic enough to spend my time listening to people call me ignorant and compare my religious faith to a belief in Santa Claus. If you find yourself alone, there is a reason.
Bonnie


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I converted to Catholicism about forty years ago, and it has brought me strength and joy that I never would have imagined. And so I feel I must present the other side when the shortcomings of my church are pointed out.


As a Catholic I too feel that the sex abuse scandal is an ugly blot on an otherwise stellar resume. I'm not sure what the fix is, and frankly I'm very glad that it falls under the jurisdiction of the Pope, the cardinals, and other members of the Church hierarchy. It's one problem that really will take the guidance and inspiration from God to find a solution for.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Bonf, your qualities don't necessarily make you a "bleeding heart liberal." More likely, a basically decent person.
> 
> Karen N.


Thanks, Karen - nice of you to say so.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> In DC sniffling at the cherry blossoms
> 
> The Yarnie Incident as you so casually dismiss, was about cruelly ganging up on someone that was obviously in distress, not herself, and the following righteous indignation dismissal of their responsibility to her stress, that some of us thought it was cruel.
> 
> ...


We paid for it, of course.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> As a Catholic I too feel that the sex abuse scandal is an ugly blot on an otherwise stellar resume. I'm not sure what the fix is, and frankly I'm very glad that it falls under the jurisdiction of the Pope, the cardinals, and other members of the Church hierarchy. It's one problem that really will take the guidance and inspiration from God to find a solution for.


I was raised Catholic. At my age I've seen and experienced much. One thing I've come to realize; evil is everywhere and under many guises.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thanks for sharing bonbf. I've had dear relatives who believed as your uncle did....for the same reason. I don't know how we broke the chain, but we did. May experience and truth save us all.


People can change--the number of public figures who've come forward over the years and admitted that the views they once held on segregation were wrong is proof of that. Of course not all folks approve of Obama's policies, but the fact that an African-American could be elected President in this country after generations of Jim Crow segregation and outright slavery is a continual source of optimism for me.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

medusa said:


> So, read and judge it for yourself and you will have a better understanding of what is really going on regarding the "The Yarnie Incident".


Wow, what a term, like Three Mile Island or Chernobyl--implies a disaster of catastrophic proportions. Perfect.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I was raised Catholic. At my age I've seen and experienced much. One thing I've come to realize; evil is everywhere and under many guises.


Only too true. My church has kept mum on the issue of sexual abuse, with one exception: a rather amazing homily delivered last Sunday in which the priest stressed the importance of lavishing the less-than-worthy priests (his words, not mine) with extra respect and devotion in order to motivate them. Hmm.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> People can change--the number of public figures who've come forward over the years and admitted that the views they once held on segregation were wrong is proof of that. Of course not all folks approve of Obama's policies, but the fact that an African-American could be elected President in this country after generations of Jim Crow segregation and outright slavery is a continual source of optimism for me.


So he was elected because he was African-American? What other conclusion could one reach, since I find nothing in his thin and exaggerated resume that makes him qualified.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> People can change--the number of public figures who've come forward over the years and admitted that the views they once held on segregation were wrong is proof of that. Of course not all folks approve of Obama's policies, but the fact that an African-American could be elected President in this country after generations of Jim Crow segregation and outright slavery is a continual source of optimism for me.


susan, you are right. People can change. I've changed over the years and have become more conservative. In reflection I think the reason is because, with all the things we've done as a society to try and 'fix' things, we've done nothing more than make things worse or bigger. In more cases than not, it's the kids that end up suffering the most.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Only too true. My church has kept mum on the issue of sexual abuse, with one exception: a rather amazing homily delivered last Sunday in which the priest stressed the importance of lavishing the less-than-worthy priests (his words, not mine) with extra respect and devotion in order to motivate them. Hmm.


But is that not how society treats Hollywood types? Don't they give extra respect and devotion/following after they have had a fall? Example, with all the national and world problems we are facing, the front page (top of the fold) has a huge picture of Tiger Woods and a story about how he is back.

As a Catholic, I believe that the priests that were abusive should have faced criminal charges, and for that I am upset with the Church. But I do believe that the Church thought that prayer and spiritual guidance would help the priests. I am not an armchair quarterback, but I believe if the Church knew then what they know now, they would have prayed for the priest but would have gone down the legal road too.

Also as a Catholic, I am tired of all the bashing without recognition of all the wonderful things the Church has done and is doing now. I would like to know of another Church that does as much for people of all faiths and in so many parts of the world that the Church is doing. The charities, hospitals, education.... is wonderfully done with humility


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> So he was elected because he was African-American? What other conclusion could one reach, since I find nothing in his thin and exaggerated resume that makes him qualified.


Agree, the choices the American people make in regards to the Presidency do leave us scratching our heads at times. Dubya is of course the best example, but even the election of George H. was a shocker. Not that the man wasn't qualified to hold office (he was) or didn't have enough brains (more than enough), but rather the fact that he was won with Dan Quayle as his running mate. Rather like being elected despite the cement block around one's foot, or a parasitic head that folks notice but are too polite to draw attention to.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Looks like Obama's economic plan is a dud - as the news quotes. Should have been expected. News says that there are going to be lots of tax hikes with little cutback in spending. He's a dud.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Obama's economic plan is a dud - as the news quotes. Should have been expected. News says that there are going to be lots of tax hikes with little cutback in spending. He's a dud.


Loads of fear for what's ahead regarding obamacare as well. Yikes! Can we start saying, "I told 'ya so!" yet?


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I think we can say "I told you so". Unemployment is getting worse not better. Romney would have made a better president.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Also as a Catholic, I am tired of all the bashing without recognition of all the wonderful things the Church has done and is doing now. I would like to know of another Church that does as much for people of all faiths and in so many parts of the world that the Church is doing. The charities, hospitals, education.... is wonderfully done with humility


I know, unfortunately the sex scandal has given some folks all the ammunition they feel they need to justify their Catholic-bashing.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> Criminals will always be able to get weapons. Time and money should be spent to address the illegal guns , rather than taking away freedoms of law abiding citizens.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


check out the facts on Hitler disarming his people, he actually made it easier for them to have guns.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I agree, however when you post information that is just not true, am I not allowed to point out such discrepancies? When someone says that AIDS is a homosexual problem, that is just wrong. I was just pointing out that you can learn the facts. If her religious beliefs are so strong, fine, don't marry a gay person, but if anyone needs to take there out of the sand it is....


Rocky,
Wait a minute - I remember when aids was first discovered. There were men who had Kaposi's sarcoma - a rare cancer. It soon became clear that they were gay men. Because it was transmitted by bodily fluids, there were eventually others who got it through sexual contact with gay men, blood transfusions, organ transplants. It was a concern that close contact could cause it to be transmitted, and people weren't sure about saliva, tears, etc. Then we learned that it wasn't as easy as we thought to get it. It started as a homosexual illness, and it is still largely that, although others do get it. I think I have that right.
If you mean it's not JUST a gay PROBLEM, it's more than that in the sense that its effects are far-reaching and touch people other than gays.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I was raised Catholic. At my age I've seen and experienced much. One thing I've come to realize; evil is everywhere and under many guises.


Yes, it is. And very attractive, too.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

It is mainly gays and drug abusers and their contaminated needles.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> check out the facts on Hitler disarming his people, he actually made it easier for them to have guns.


Well, in a sense you are correct. Hitler only disarmed the Jewish citizenry. I'm sorry. That doesn't give me any better sense of security for allowing the government to continue to chip away at our second ammendment rights.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> It is mainly gays and drug abusers and their contaminated needles.


Here perhaps, but in places like Africa most victims are non-addicted heterosexual adults and their children.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Only too true. My church has kept mum on the issue of sexual abuse, with one exception: a rather amazing homily delivered last Sunday in which the priest stressed the importance of lavishing the less-than-worthy priests (his words, not mine) with extra respect and devotion in order to motivate them. Hmm.


Love and forgiveness are the message and beauty of Christianity. The unconditional love of the Father - for all of us. Even for the ones we ourselves don't love. Sometimes hard to accept, but there it is.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> But is that not how society treats Hollywood types? Don't they give extra respect and devotion/following after they have had a fall? Example, with all the national and world problems we are facing, the front page (top of the fold) has a huge picture of Tiger Woods and a story about how he is back.
> 
> As a Catholic, I believe that the priests that were abusive should have faced criminal charges, and for that I am upset with the Church. But I do believe that the Church thought that prayer and spiritual guidance would help the priests. I am not an armchair quarterback, but I believe if the Church knew then what they know now, they would have prayed for the priest but would have gone down the legal road too.
> 
> Also as a Catholic, I am tired of all the bashing without recognition of all the wonderful things the Church has done and is doing now. I would like to know of another Church that does as much for people of all faiths and in so many parts of the world that the Church is doing. The charities, hospitals, education.... is wonderfully done with humility


I agree completely. Not only that, but the recommended treatment for pedophiles back then was rehabilitation. Time has shown that it seldom works, but the church was doing what was medically "sound" at the time.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree, the choices the American people make in regards to the Presidency do leave us scratching our heads at times. Dubya is of course the best example, but even the election of George H. was a shocker. Not that the man wasn't qualified to hold office (he was) or didn't have enough brains (more than enough), but rather the fact that he was won with Dan Quayle as his running mate. Rather like being elected despite the cement block around one's foot, or a parasitic head that folks notice but are too polite to draw attention to.


Your image is so funny! That's right - you write - you "do" images! Good job, although I respect and admire George W. Bush tremendously.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Janeway said:


> Rocky, Rocky, why do you and your friends think when I voice my opinion, I'm upset? You and others are constantly saying I'm upset, but really that is just your way of bulling me--take a different tack as this one is worn out!
> 
> The only thing I wrote about HIV/AIDS was about the man in jail who was bisexual that police are having a diffult time with him.
> 
> ...


You're being baited, Jane. It's condescending, and you recognize it for its unpleasant and somewhat hostile intent.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


Even in America 27% of the newly infected got it through heterosexual contact in 2008 (aids.gov), and every year that number grows. Calling or thinking of AIDS as a "gay disease" is dangerous because it leads folks to assume they're safe as long as they don't engage in homosexual acts or use contaminated needles.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Even in America 27% of the newly infected got it through heterosexual contact in 2008 (aids.gov), and every year that number grows. Calling or thinking of AIDS as a "gay disease" is dangerous because it leads folks to assume they're safe as long as they don't engage in homosexual acts or use contaminated needles.


Very interesting - because they sure did a good job convincing it us that it was hard to get. I guess if you have one partner, that helps your odds.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church. I applaud the many generous things they have done. But there is bad with the good, as in most things. It is worth examining them because some (such as sexual abuse cases) have been hidden to avoid scandal.

The Inquisition, converting the savages (and destroying cultures), and many more....but it is over 2000 years. I especially applaud the Church for its work with the poor and downtrodden. There is also no put-down involved. They blame no one.



bonbf3 said:


> Damemary,
> 
> Yes, it is - thank you for saying that.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do find that in the Catholic Church, science is respected, now that we got beyond 'that Galieo thing.'



bonbf3 said:


> There are many very intelligent and educated people of faith. You don't have to be stupid to believe in God. Just as you don't have to be smart to believe there is no God.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nice. This is not our first dog.


Who's not a competent trainer? And who said that? 
Now, that's just what I'm talking about - that's insulting. Can't you think of a better way to express that? Or maybe you don't need to actually say that at all. This is how the trouble starts.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow, what a term, like Three Mile Island or Chernobyl--implies a disaster of catastrophic proportions. Perfect.


Thank you, Susan, it was intended that way!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It makes my day when we can discuss things from all sides with respect. (I had trouble following the train of thought too. It was late last night. I just answered what I feel)



bonbf3 said:


> Damemary, what makes your day? I can't tell from the way the posts are arranged.
> Bonnie


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Even in America 27% of the newly infected got it through heterosexual contact in 2008 (aids.gov), and every year that number grows. Calling or thinking of AIDS as a "gay disease" is dangerous because it leads folks to assume they're safe as long as they don't engage in homosexual acts or use contaminated needles.


That means that 75% of the people got it through other means.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

medusa said:


> Thank you, Susan, it was intended that way!


I'm sorry it upset you that much. I think it's over now - hope you feel better soon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We pay more and get less. We are far down the list of nations rated by infant death rate etc. Much of our costs go to the middleman, not to doctors. Lobbyists funnel money to Congress. There are many problems at work.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not sure the legitimate costs CAN be brought down. Good health care, like any other quality product, is going to cost a pretty penny. Quite honestly it seems that we get what we pay for, whether the item in question is a vacuum cleaner, a new car, or a reasonably competent doctor.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The problem lives on.



susanmos2000 said:


> Only too true. My church has kept mum on the issue of sexual abuse, with one exception: a rather amazing homily delivered last Sunday in which the priest stressed the importance of lavishing the less-than-worthy priests (his words, not mine) with extra respect and devotion in order to motivate them. Hmm.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> I was raised in the Roman Catholic Church. I applaud the many generous things they have done. But there is bad with the good, as in most things. It is worth examining them because some (such as sexual abuse cases) have been hidden to avoid scandal.
> 
> The Inquisition, converting the savages (and destroying cultures), and many more....but it is over 2000 years. I especially applaud the Church for its work with the poor and downtrodden. There is also no put-down involved. They blame no one.


I hadn't thought of that - the time perspective.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Who's not a competent trainer? And who said that?
> Now, that's just what I'm talking about - that's insulting. Can't you think of a better way to express that? Or maybe you don't need to actually say that at all. This is how the trouble starts.


Oh, never mind me and the post above - I'm just being judgmental and bossy. Sorry.
Bonnie


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> It makes my day when we can discuss things from all sides with respect. (I had trouble following the train of thought too. It was late last night. I just answered what I feel)


Oh - I thought you meant something else. My mistake. I like it the way you describe it, too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Your image is so funny! That's right - you write - you "do" images! Good job, although I respect and admire George W. Bush tremendously.


Actually I did too--he was possibly the sharpest mind in Washington, and it's hard not to feel a real admiration for that. And although I disagreed with a lot of his policies I thought his handling of Iraq in the first Gulf war was brilliant. He gave the Iraqis fair warning, waited a reasonable amount of time for them to comply, then used our military to follow through and push them back behind their own borders. I can only hope Obama was taking notes--it was an outstanding lesson on how to handle overly aggressive foreign nations.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No, President Obama was not elected just because of his race. He inspired many people to get involved in the legislative process. He encouraged minorities through his empathy.

Many others have been elected President with 'thin resumes.' JFK, GW Bush....just in modern times. Besides, what qualifies a person as presidential material?

Sometimes the campaign reveals the nature of the candidates, as in the case of Mitt Romney.



off2knit said:


> So he was elected because he was African-American? What other conclusion could one reach, since I find nothing in his thin and exaggerated resume that makes him qualified.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with much you've said.



off2knit said:


> But is that not how society treats Hollywood types? Don't they give extra respect and devotion/following after they have had a fall? Example, with all the national and world problems we are facing, the front page (top of the fold) has a huge picture of Tiger Woods and a story about how he is back.
> 
> As a Catholic, I believe that the priests that were abusive should have faced criminal charges, and for that I am upset with the Church. But I do believe that the Church thought that prayer and spiritual guidance would help the priests. I am not an armchair quarterback, but I believe if the Church knew then what they know now, they would have prayed for the priest but would have gone down the legal road too.
> 
> Also as a Catholic, I am tired of all the bashing without recognition of all the wonderful things the Church has done and is doing now. I would like to know of another Church that does as much for people of all faiths and in so many parts of the world that the Church is doing. The charities, hospitals, education.... is wonderfully done with humility


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then the Congress is at fault also.



Lukelucy said:


> Looks like Obama's economic plan is a dud - as the news quotes. Should have been expected. News says that there are going to be lots of tax hikes with little cutback in spending. He's a dud.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Unemployment is slowly improving, less than we would hope. The causes, there are many opinions, but no action.



Lukelucy said:


> I think we can say "I told you so". Unemployment is getting worse not better. Romney would have made a better president.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Who's not a competent trainer? And who said that?
> Now, that's just what I'm talking about - that's insulting. Can't you think of a better way to express that? Or maybe you don't need to actually say that at all. This is how the trouble starts.


Maysmom (Karen N.) posted to me earlier on page 40, "You might think you're a competent trainer, but I doubt that."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is this the justification for avoiding the scandal?



susanmos2000 said:


> I know, unfortunately the sex scandal has given some folks all the ammunition they feel they need to justify their Catholic-bashing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Many, many people became infected through blood transfusion, such as a generation of hemophiliacs. Don't forget them.



bonbf3 said:


> Rocky,
> Wait a minute - I remember when aids was first discovered. There were men who had Kaposi's sarcoma - a rare cancer. It soon became clear that they were gay men. Because it was transmitted by bodily fluids, there were eventually others who got it through sexual contact with gay men, blood transfusions, organ transplants. It was a concern that close contact could cause it to be transmitted, and people weren't sure about saliva, tears, etc. Then we learned that it wasn't as easy as we thought to get it. It started as a homosexual illness, and it is still largely that, although others do get it. I think I have that right.
> If you mean it's not JUST a gay PROBLEM, it's more than that in the sense that its effects are far-reaching and touch people other than gays.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please explain. Thank you.



bonbf3 said:


> Yes, it is. And very attractive, too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Also married people, hemophiliacs, first-responders, etc.



Lukelucy said:


> It is mainly gays and drug abusers and their contaminated needles.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> He encouraged minorities through his empathy.


He encouraged minorities because, his being a minority they identified with him and because he promised to give them things. That's about it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do Africans count less?



Lukelucy said:


> All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And sometimes such forgiveness allows the abuser to continue.



bonbf3 said:


> Love and forgiveness are the message and beauty of Christianity. The unconditional love of the Father - for all of us. Even for the ones we ourselves don't love. Sometimes hard to accept, but there it is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or were they most concerned about avoiding scandal?



bonbf3 said:


> I agree completely. Not only that, but the recommended treatment for pedophiles back then was rehabilitation. Time has shown that it seldom works, but the church was doing what was medically "sound" at the time.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are encouraging her to be defensive.



bonbf3 said:


> You're being baited, Jane. It's condescending, and you recognize it for its unpleasant and somewhat hostile intent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What if that 'one partner' has 1000 other partners ?



bonbf3 said:


> Very interesting - because they sure did a good job convincing it us that it was hard to get. I guess if you have one partner, that helps your odds.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No, the trouble starts when you're hurt and frustrated at the moment and flippantly suggest beatings and euthanasia as solutions.



bonbf3 said:


> Who's not a competent trainer? And who said that?
> Now, that's just what I'm talking about - that's insulting. Can't you think of a better way to express that? Or maybe you don't need to actually say that at all. This is how the trouble starts.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Nice. This is not our first dog.


Even if it was your hundredth dog doesn't make you a trainer.

Karen N.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do look at all sides of an issue....or try to think of them all. Let me know if I'm missing something pertinent.



bonbf3 said:


> I hadn't thought of that - the time perspective.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> There are many very intelligent and educated people of faith. You don't have to be stupid to believe in God. Just as you don't have to be smart to believe there is no God.


Why don't you just come out and say that stupid people don't beleive in God?

Karen N.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Because it's not true.



maysmom said:


> Why don't you just come out and say that stupid people don't beleive in God?
> 
> Karen N.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Only too true. My church has kept mum on the issue of sexual abuse, with one exception: a rather amazing homily delivered last Sunday in which the priest stressed the importance of lavishing the less-than-worthy priests (his words, not mine) with extra respect and devotion in order to motivate them. Hmm.


Another "you gotta be kidding me."

Karen N.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> No, the trouble starts when you're hurt and frustrated at the moment and flippantly suggest beatings and euthanasia as solutions.


Very true. I'm better now.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


AIDS has no respect for geographical borders--

Karen N.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Who's not a competent trainer? And who said that?
> Now, that's just what I'm talking about - that's insulting. Can't you think of a better way to express that? Or maybe you don't need to actually say that at all. This is how the trouble starts.


I said that beating a dog is not a practice of a competent trainer. Unless one is training dogs for fighting.

Karen N.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

There are different forms of Epilepsy . Sense you seem to have all the answers. Here is what happen to me. Temporal lobe: memory difficutis,even when seizures are well controlled. I do not rmember pm's from you.

As to Susan would seem you are still on the spinning truth to your liking. As said before tell the truth and you will get further in life. 

I was wrong in that I pick on your family no excuse, except angry at what you said about Jane, and again you lied about what you said, and meant towards her.

SS make up your mind, and really think about what to post.Plus stop going on other sites, and posting what you seem to think you know, read it again.

Bratty Patty I do owe you and apology, So I publicly apologize. 

Rocky you again made fun of me and said you were scared, that night you were on line and never posted a word. Why.

As to stroke never happen would not have been even able to type.

As to being insane, add it to the name calling list.
Racist, bigot, stupid, nuts, don't know what you are talking about, idot, can't spell and now insane. 
I do hope you start another site, to all the KPer's out there do not go on site as you will be tore to pieces, if you do not agree with these people.

Susan as you seem to like to snoop around and not tell all that was posted . People not deserveing of being called ladies I ask for forgiveness as soon as I left this site. Susan failed to mention that, and now she is talking about her faith. I also did not pm or post to anyone until the two days later, so anothr lay. And did not get my jollies from doing it Susan, as you have seen what I posted would appreciate you telling the truth.

Goddess can't remember first name I enjoyed our PM's sorry I just had to read them again, glad to learn some of what you believe. Thank you.

Mommee what can I say except you are a wonderful person, and I wish when younger you had been my teacher, but please keep posting your facts if this site is left here. No one can dispute them and have not.
Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down. But I am fine and am sorry I did not get in touch with you. Did not want to come on this site until I could do it with out getting angry at what has been done and said by the left wing on this site. 
Am I innocent no, but would do it again, but more calmly instead of angry.

As to the one in this group of so called rightous, always willing to hear the other side, and feel they have ever right to call others that don't agree with their truths, let me say this.
I never no matter how nasty you got with your name calling ect. reported you. So to the person that thought she was so righteous in doing so . Wow, what can I say. You remind me of the old lady who will never be happy unless she can cause problem and get even like Susan . I do wonder if you can get through a day with out blasting someone who does not agree with you. 

Yes Susan on here but this is the last time just wanted to state how it felt to be so mad that you could lose it. Also Susan did not need to put a pencil in my mouth or clamp down, or have a seizue. But the good thing is I let it out got rid of it, and all the better for it.

Settle Soul feel free to correct my spelling or words that don't meet your approveal. 

As I will be adding something on next post, this is enoubh for me, I will no longer come on KP, and i hope you all remeind as Toxic as your are, and even a new site will not change that or any of you.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Because it's not true.


maysmom wrote:
Why don't you just come out and say that stupid people don't beleive in God?

Karen N.

Bonb was the poster making the original statement, not you.

Karen N.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

marykelly said:


> Obamacare is typical liberal thinking. Do something -- anything-- and as long as it costs money the problem will be taken care of. But in this case they are attacking the wrong part of the problem. Having health insurance is not the same as having affordable health care. It's the cost of health care that's the problem not the cost or availability of insurance! People can be insurance poor and still not be able to meet the costs of their health care. I'm talking about exorbitant doctor bills, impossible rates for hospital care, and medications that cost more in a month than the mortgage! If they want to do something about the cost of health care, they will bring those costs down and forget about that stupid insurance!
> 
> Sorry. Had to vent.


Vent on. I thought it might make sense to extend the health coverage Federal employees get to everyone, and revamp it if there aren't as many affordable care options as the uninsured population would need. That would mean so-called Obamacare was acted on. I'm not sure why this can't be done.

I agree that the biggest obstacle in the way of affordable health care is the current high cost of care and astronomical copays, and the use of ER departments for primary care. It especially concerns me that we might be talking about creating even more healthcare systems instead of reforming what already exists.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I don't think Obamacare is the way to go. I feel that his policies are all "duds".


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> Rocky,
> Wait a minute - I remember when aids was first discovered. There were men who had Kaposi's sarcoma - a rare cancer. It soon became clear that they were gay men. Because it was transmitted by bodily fluids, there were eventually others who got it through sexual contact with gay men, blood transfusions, organ transplants. It was a concern that close contact could cause it to be transmitted, and people weren't sure about saliva, tears, etc. Then we learned that it wasn't as easy as we thought to get it. It started as a homosexual illness, and it is still largely that, although others do get it. I think I have that right.
> If you mean it's not JUST a gay PROBLEM, it's more than that in the sense that its effects are far-reaching and touch people other than gays.


AIDS amongst the gay community has dropped considerably. The highest incidence of AIDS is among black female drug users. I'll find the info.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


I didn't see where America was noted - I just read AIDs in general. But since people travel between countries and transmit diseases, it is worth mentioning Africa.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Susan, Snooz Suzi, and several of her Left, Progressive cohorts, insist on being acknowledgedyet only have the courage to post and stalk others under the veil of anonymity.Pride, Courage and Backbones are in short supply by those who want acceptance and tolerance of all views yet they tolerate none other than those who agree with them.
SeattleSoul, the passive aggressive, feels it is her duty to tell others how to think and speak while hurling insults at the same time on another website, while feigning ignorance.These actions confirm and highlight the personality deficits of Suzi, SS Cheeky Alcameron, ect.and these Left groupies all DO have something to hide.
As Women who constantly ask for links,fact, and proof, while spouting your hate and ignorance in the shadows or under secrecy, yet expecting not to be challenged is pathetic and weak. Pathetic and weak women are not my cup of tea.Ignoring the stupidity,evil and weakness is my best gift to y'all. Hope you enjoy it!
Cherf ( will,not put the rest of the information she ask me to convey to you all, as you would be like a pack of wolves and seach for her too, only to go after her and call her names)Her last words on what she has ask me to post. 

Who was banned from KP! 
Guess why she was banned all the progressive people on KP, yes again the left, this last sentence are my words not Cherf's, theyarnlady.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Then the Congress is at fault also.


Absolutely! They are the ones that vote whether or not to enact what the President presented.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> As a Catholic I too feel that the sex abuse scandal is an ugly blot on an otherwise stellar resume. I'm not sure what the fix is, and frankly I'm very glad that it falls under the jurisdiction of the Pope, the cardinals, and other members of the Church hierarchy. It's one problem that really will take the guidance and inspiration from God to find a solution for.


I think some defrocking, excommunication and reporting pedophile priests to law enforcement agencies, when sufficient evidence exists, would be a good start. This might result in some of these guys ending up in jail, and becoming registered sex offenders. Pope Francis I sounds very concerned about dealing with pedophile priests, but I don't knpw what he thinks will cure the problem. As you can tell, I want to see harsh penalties for said priests.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

I forgot to add no Cherf has not changed her name like a majority on the left have done. She is to much of a lady to do that nor does she want too.


The End.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I did too--he was possibly the sharpest mind in Washington, and it's hard not to feel a real admiration for that. And although I disagreed with a lot of his policies I thought his handling of Iraq in the first Gulf war was brilliant. He gave the Iraqis fair warning, waited a reasonable amount of time for them to comply, then used our military to follow through and push them back behind their own borders. I can only hope Obama was taking notes--it was an outstanding lesson on how to handle overly aggressive foreign nations.


Oh - you're talking about George H. W. Bush (George Herbert Walker Bush) - the father. Yes, a brilliant and experienced man. I was talking about George W., his son. I also have tremendous respect for the father - and for the women in that family. Can you imagine having a husband and a son who've been President?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

off2knit said:


> But is that not how society treats Hollywood types? Don't they give extra respect and devotion/following after they have had a fall? Example, with all the national and world problems we are facing, the front page (top of the fold) has a huge picture of Tiger Woods and a story about how he is back.
> 
> As a Catholic, I believe that the priests that were abusive should have faced criminal charges, and for that I am upset with the Church. But I do believe that the Church thought that prayer and spiritual guidance would help the priests. I am not an armchair quarterback, but I believe if the Church knew then what they know now, they would have prayed for the priest but would have gone down the legal road too.
> 
> Also as a Catholic, I am tired of all the bashing without recognition of all the wonderful things the Church has done and is doing now. I would like to know of another Church that does as much for people of all faiths and in so many parts of the world that the Church is doing. The charities, hospitals, education.... is wonderfully done with humility


Yes, for some reason we love to give greater popularity to public figures for their faults. I think this is meant to cater to those who love juicy gossip, and turn people away from paying attention to serious events and important issues of the day.

I see we agree about harsher treatment of pedophile priests. In September when the church I attend starts it, I will be starting to go through the Catholic Church's "Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults" to join the Church. I get questioned more often about the evils of the Church than its goodness, as if I hadn't thought long and hard about the Church's flaws.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I get questioned more often about the evils of the Church than its goodness, as if I hadn't thought long and hard about the Church's flaws.


It's not the Church that is flawed. It's man that is flawed. Big difference.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Lukelucy said:


> All kinds of people in Africa. Aren't we discussing America?


We're talking about a disease that exists in other parts of the world. It isn't confined to the US. Discussing the transmission of HIV worldwide gives us a better sense of what is actually happening.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> No, President Obama was not elected just because of his race. He inspired many people to get involved in the legislative process. He encouraged minorities through his empathy.
> 
> Many others have been elected President with 'thin resumes.' JFK, GW Bush....just in modern times. Besides, what qualifies a person as presidential material?
> 
> Sometimes the campaign reveals the nature of the candidates, as in the case of Mitt Romney.


***************************
Yes, I enjoyed hearing the testimonies of those people who had been helped personally by Mitt Romney. These actions were unknown to the public until then.

As for resumes:

Both JFK and George W. Bush served in the military and went to Harvard. Obama also went to Harvard.

JFK served 5 years in the U.S. House of Representatives and 8 years in the U.S. Senate before being elected President. He was President during the Cuban Missile Crisis. He served two terms.

George W. Bush went into business and operated a successful oil business and sports business (Texas Rangers). He served as Governor of Texas before being elected President. He was President during the attack on the World Trade Center on 9/11. He served two terms.

Barack Obama was a lawyer and community organizer, then served in the Illinois state Senate. He served 3 years in the U.S. Senate before being elected President. He is serving his second term.

Just an aside - President Bush joked about enjoying being underestimated. Although his opponent, Al Gore, was touted as Bush's intellectual superior, Bush's grades were actually better than Gore's.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Susan, Snooz Suzi, and several of her Left, Progressive cohorts, insist on being acknowledgedyet only have the courage to post and stalk others under the veil of anonymity.Pride, Courage and Backbones are in short supply by those who want acceptance and tolerance of all views yet they tolerate none other than those who agree with them.
> SeattleSoul, the passive aggressive, feels it is her duty to tell others how to think and speak while hurling insults at the same time on another website, while feigning ignorance.These actions confirm and highlight the personality deficits of Suzi, SS Cheeky Alcameron, ect.and these Left groupies all DO have something to hide.
> As Women who constantly ask for links,fact, and proof, while spouting your hate and ignorance in the shadows or under secrecy, yet expecting not to be challenged is pathetic and weak. Pathetic and weak women are not my cup of tea.Ignoring the stupidity,evil and weakness is my best gift to y'all. Hope you enjoy it!
> Cherf ( will,not put the rest of the information she ask me to convey to you all, as you would be like a pack of wolves and seach for her too, only to go after her and call her names)Her last words on what she has ask me to post.
> ...


Cherf was banned????????? That's quite a loss - a stupid move.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Yes, for some reason we love to give greater popularity to public figures for their faults. I think this is meant to cater to those who love juicy gossip, and turn people away from paying attention to serious events and important issues of the day.
> 
> I see we agree about harsher treatment of pedophile priests. In September when the church I attend starts it, I will be starting to go through the Catholic Church's "Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults" to join the Church. I get questioned more often about the evils of the Church than its goodness, as if I hadn't thought long and hard about the Church's flaws.


There is a lot of misunderstanding. I used to live in Baltimore - a very Catholic city when I was a seldom-practicing Methodist. Here in Atlanta there are still people who think Catholics are not Christians!!! I don't know where they get that idea.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually I did too--he was possibly the sharpest mind in Washington, and it's hard not to feel a real admiration for that. And although I disagreed with a lot of his policies I thought his handling of Iraq in the first Gulf war was brilliant. He gave the Iraqis fair warning, waited a reasonable amount of time for them to comply, then used our military to follow through and push them back behind their own borders. I can only hope Obama was taking notes--it was an outstanding lesson on how to handle overly aggressive foreign nations.


W the sharpest mind in Washington??? Perhaps you meant his father, who was actually intelligent. As for the rest of what you said, all I can do is sit here completely boggled.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's not the Church that is flawed. It's man that is flawed. Big difference.


That's a good distinction, Thumper.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> W the sharpest mind in Washington??? Perhaps you meant his father, who was actually intelligent. As for the rest of what you said, all I can do is sit here completely boggled.


********************************
George W. Bush brought our country together after 9/11. For a while, liberals and conservatives didn't hate each other. We all came together for the common good. Bush felt deeply the great debt we owe the military and continues without fanfare to serve them out of gratitude and pride.

To say he was not smart is just bias. You don't get to be a successful businessman, the Governor of Texas, and President by being stupid. We are too quick to call those we disagree with stupid. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's stupid.

Obama supporters - seem to absolutely hate Republicans. They HATE Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, George Bush. All three of these people have shown great character, overcome great difficulties, and have served others. They also show a great love for our country. What's to hate? Hate Palin because she looks like a model? Because of the way she talks? Hate Romney because he's rich? Because he has a lovely wife and happy family? Hate Bush because you don't like the way he handled the attack on our country? Could anyone else have done better? Are these people hated because they all seem to have a great joy of life? Maybe that's it.

I don't understand the hatred, and that's exactly what it is.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> There is a lot of misunderstanding. I used to live in Baltimore - a very Catholic city when I was a seldom-practicing Methodist. Here in Atlanta there are still people who think Catholics are not Christians!!! I don't know where they get that idea.


Yes, especially considering the Catholic Church is the original Christian church.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> ********************************
> George W. Bush brought our country together after 9/11. For a while, liberals and conservatives didn't hate each other. We all came together for the common good. Bush felt deeply the great debt we owe the military and continues without fanfare to serve them out of gratitude and pride.
> 
> To say he was not smart is just bias. You don't get to be a successful businessman, the Governor of Texas, and President by being stupid. We are too quick to call those we disagree with stupid. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's stupid.
> ...


I think we could say the same about Obama - overcome great difficulties, served others, great character. So why is he so hated? I don't dislike Palin, Romney or Bush. I would not vote for Palin - I don't think she is qualified. And I think that even if Romney had been elected, because of the divide in Congress and the Senate, I doubt he would be that effective.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I think we could say the same about Obama - overcome great difficulties, served others, great character. So why is he so hated? I don't dislike Palin, Romney or Bush. I would not vote for Palin - I don't think she is qualified. And I think that even if Romney had been elected, because of the divide in Congress and the Senate, I doubt he would be that effective.


obama has done nothing of the sort. He has done more to divide this country than any other president in history. If you call a liar and a cheat someone of great character then I guess he's your guy.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Yes, especially considering the Catholic Church is the original Christian church.


 I know!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Just because Obama went to Harvard, does not automatically make him a good president.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I think we could say the same about Obama - overcome great difficulties, served others, great character. So why is he so hated? I don't dislike Palin, Romney or Bush. I would not vote for Palin - I don't think she is qualified. And I think that even if Romney had been elected, because of the divide in Congress and the Senate, I doubt he would be that effective.


Sarah Palin is a woman of character. She has been in government on the local and state level, and she knows the energy industry very well. She has personal experience with the military and as a business owner and union member - and homemaker. She has lived the life of an ordinary kid, a mother of a large family, a breadwinner, politician, author, and speaker. She is beholden to no one, a free thinker who embraces the freeedoms and values of our country. She's patriotic, optimistic, and strong. She was viciously flogged in the public square time and time again, yet remained joyful and firm in her ideas. She was mocked and ridiculed, but not beaten. I admire her very much.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Just because Obama went to Harvard, does not automatically make him a good president.


********************************
I agree. I could give all the reasons why I don't think he's a good President, but I'm so tired of doing that, of thinking about it, and of then taking the backlash. It is a daily gut-punch to listen to what's going on in our country.

I will say I am shocked at his flaunting of his position with all the parties and golf games and vacations when our country and so many of our fellow citizens are truly suffering the loss of jobs, homes, and savings. I find that inexcusable, and I think it that history will see it that way, too.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> Obama supporters - seem to absolutely hate Republicans. They HATE Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, George Bush. All three of these people have shown great character, overcome great difficulties, and have served others. They also show a great love for our country. What's to hate? Hate Palin because she looks like a model? Because of the way she talks? Hate Romney because he's rich? Because he has a lovely wife and happy family? Hate Bush because you don't like the way he handled the attack on our country? Could anyone else have done better? Are these people hated because they all seem to have a great joy of life? Maybe that's it.
> 
> I don't understand the hatred, and that's exactly what it is.


I don't hate Republicans or any of the ones you've mentioned. However, they scare the living s--t out of me. It also seems to me that the Republican Party needs to do some work to become a better party. There doesn't seem to be much room in the party for liberal Republicans, so they end up becoming conservative Democrats. That's fine with me, as a Democrat, but it shouldn't be fine with the GOP to lose potential voters for their candidates at any level of government.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> ********************************
> I agree. I could give all the reasons why I don't think he's a good President, but I'm so tired of doing that, of thinking about it, and of then taking the backlash. It is a daily gut-punch to listen to what's going on in our country.
> 
> I will say I am shocked at his flaunting of his position with all the parties and golf games and vacations when our country and so many of our fellow citizens are truly suffering the loss of jobs, homes, and savings. I find that inexcusable, and I think it that history will see it that way, too.


We could go back and forth on this all day. Most of the presidents took vacation. Ford played golf, blah, blah, blah. My concern is discussing and understanding the issues facing our government. He is the President - he will be for 3 more years. Get over it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We were so caught up in our own drivel that nobody mentioned the deaths of Margaret Thatcher or Annette Funicello. I can't really imagine using those names in the same sentence. I remember Annette from her Mousketeer days. And I remember Margaret from our Ronald Reagan days.


Now in death she will be thought of as the "Sainted Margaret Thatcher"


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I don't hate Republicans or any of the ones you've mentioned. However, they scare the living s--t out of me. It also seems to me that the Republican Party needs to do some work to become a better party. There doesn't seem to be much room in the party for liberal Republicans, so they end up becoming conservative Democrats. That's fine with me, as a Democrat, but it shouldn't be fine with the GOP to lose potential voters for their candidates at any level of government.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I don't hate Republicans or any of the ones you've mentioned. However, they scare the living s--t out of me. It also seems to me that the Republican Party needs to do some work to become a better party. There doesn't seem to be much room in the party for liberal Republicans, so they end up becoming conservative Democrats. That's fine with me, as a Democrat, but it shouldn't be fine with the GOP to lose potential voters for their candidates at any level of government.


I think it's best to have two parties with different philosophies, so I think if they're liberal, they should go to the Democrat party. I'm a combination and don't have to register with any party, so that's a real freedom here in Georgia, and I like that.

But really, I'm so sick of politics and typical politicians. I don't think Obama has a scintilla of respect for me or ordinary people. He is enthralled by Hollywood, sports figures, and his own comfort. He likes playing the role of the main Big Shot, but doesn't seem to accomplish anything except his own pet projects which he will see done regardless of the will of the people. I don't like the behavior of so many Democratic politicians, (Hilary's lying, Clinton's scandalous sexual exploits, the blind allegiance without judgment that so many of their supporters have), and I'm sick of the Republicans, who mercilessly sabotaged their own good candidate in a disgusting power play inside their own party. I've come to the conclusion that almost all politicians, even more than the rest of us, have an ungodly desire for power and a self-centered, self-serving mindset that is overwhelming. They serve their own self-interest - just look at how we get Obamacare but they don't. If it's so good, why are they exempt?

Now - I'm talking about the politicians, not the real people who belong to the parties.

Oh - I'm ranting again. Obviously, I have too much time on my hands.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I think it's best to have two parties with different philosophies, so I think if they're liberal, they should go to the Democrat party. I'm a combination and don't have to register with any party, so that's a real freedom here in Georgia, and I like that.
> 
> But really, I'm so sick of politics and typical politicians. I don't think Obama has a scintilla of respect for me or ordinary people. He is enthralled by Hollywood, sports figures, and his own comfort. He likes playing the role of the main Big Shot, but doesn't seem to accomplish anything except his own pet projects which he will see done regardless of the will of the people. I don't like the behavior of so many Democratic politicians, (Hilary's lying, Clinton's scandalous sexual exploits, the blind allegiance without judgment that so many of their supporters have), and I'm sick of the Republicans, who mercilessly sabotaged their own good candidate in a disgusting power play inside their own party. I've come to the conclusion that almost all politicians, even more than the rest of us, have an ungodly desire for power and a self-centered, self-serving mindset that is overwhelming. They serve their own self-interest - just look at how we get Obamacare but they don't. If it's so good, why are they exempt?
> 
> ...


I like your rant - I feel the same way about the two parties. We need them but right now, they are so far apart it is hurting the country.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Bonbf,

I am totally with you.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

You've hit on the key point. It's the attitude of the gun owner that is the problem. A responsible gun owner recognizes he has a deadly weapon, and restricts its use to places in which such a force is necessary. What we are seeing all over the country, however, is a childish rage that says in effect, "I want what I want and I want it now, and if you don't like it or get in my way I'm going to kill you." We have failed to discipline our children and this is a result. Not all people will respond this way, obviously, but those who are unstable otherwise will. The boy who murdered the Stony Brook people was taught to use guns by his mother who thought nothing of it. She ignored the fact that he had no empathy with others. We don't know what set him off, but she provided the guns and the knowhow, but not the necessary restraint. Bang! Bang! You're dead! is not a solution, and never should have been seen as one.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I think it's best to have two parties with different philosophies, so I think if they're liberal, they should go to the Democrat party. I'm a combination and don't have to register with any party, so that's a real freedom here in Georgia, and I like that.
> 
> But really, I'm so sick of politics and typical politicians. I don't think Obama has a scintilla of respect for me or ordinary people. He is enthralled by Hollywood, sports figures, and his own comfort. He likes playing the role of the main Big Shot, but doesn't seem to accomplish anything except his own pet projects which he will see done regardless of the will of the people. I don't like the behavior of so many Democratic politicians, (Hilary's lying, Clinton's scandalous sexual exploits, the blind allegiance without judgment that so many of their supporters have), and I'm sick of the Republicans, who mercilessly sabotaged their own good candidate in a disgusting power play inside their own party. I've come to the conclusion that almost all politicians, even more than the rest of us, have an ungodly desire for power and a self-centered, self-serving mindset that is overwhelming. They serve their own self-interest - just look at how we get Obamacare but they don't. If it's so good, why are they exempt?
> 
> ...


I'm not trying to suggest that the Republican Party develop philosophies that are the same as the Democratic Party's. I think the GOP needs to take a good look at itself and make room for more people to join the party if the party wants to succeed. I think there's a difference between a Liberal Republican and a Conservative Democrat, and the GOP loses their liberals which damages their party. Yes, I'm a Democrat, but I want our 2 party system to succeed. Actually, I'd like to see more than 2 parties in the US, much as they have in Canada and Great Britain. This would give people even more choices to belong to parties that more acurately represent their beliefs.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

marykelly said:


> You've hit on the key point. It's the attitude of the gun owner that is the problem. A responsible gun owner recognizes he has a deadly weapon, and restricts its use to places in which such a force is necessary. What we are seeing all over the country, however, is a childish rage that says in effect, "I want what I want and I want it now, and if you don't like it or get in my way I'm going to kill you." We have failed to discipline our children and this is a result. Not all people will respond this way, obviously, but those who are unstable otherwise will. The boy who murdered the Stony Brook people was taught to use guns by his mother who thought nothing of it. She ignored the fact that he had no empathy with others. We don't know what set him off, but she provided the guns and the knowhow, but not the necessary restraint. Bang! Bang! You're dead! is not a solution, and never should have been seen as one.


I worry that the clamor for gun control could lead to the modification or elimination of the 2nd Amendment, and once one of the rights we have in the Bill of Rights is touched, the door will be opened to modify or eliminate our other rights.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> We paid for it, of course.


If it was a State dinner the taxpayers pay, if it was a personal dinner, the President pays


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm not trying to suggest that the Republican Party develop philosophies that are the same as the Democratic Party's. I think the GOP needs to take a good look at itself and make room for more people to join the party if the party wants to succeed. I think there's a difference between a Liberal Republican and a Conservative Democrat, and the GOP loses their liberals which damages their party. Yes, I'm a Democrat, but I want our 2 party system to succeed. Actually, I'd like to see more than 2 parties in the US, much as they have in Canada and Great Britain. This would give people even more choices to belong to parties that more acurately represent their beliefs.


What about Libertarian as a 3rd party. Do you think they could be viable?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> What about Libertarian as a 3rd party. Do you think they could be viable?


I don't remember their philosophy, I only remember I didn't think much of them. Unfortunately, this happens to me now and then. The 2 party system is so entrenched in our society that I despair of the success of having more parties, but I hope for that.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I worry that the clamor for gun control could lead to the modification or elimination of the 2nd Amendment, and once one of the rights we have in the Bill of Rights is touched, the door will be opened to modify or eliminate our other rights.


With you on that one. Too many people forget that our rights are not given to us by our government but are God-given (read the opening to the Declaration of Independence). What the government gives it can take away. The further we get from our basic roots and philosophies, the more danger we are in of losing our freedoms altogether.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I think it's best to have two parties with different philosophies, so I think if they're liberal, they should go to the Democrat party. I'm a combination and don't have to register with any party, so that's a real freedom here in Georgia, and I like that.
> 
> But really, I'm so sick of politics and typical politicians. I don't think Obama has a scintilla of respect for me or ordinary people. He is enthralled by Hollywood, sports figures, and his own comfort. He likes playing the role of the main Big Shot, but doesn't seem to accomplish anything except his own pet projects which he will see done regardless of the will of the people. I don't like the behavior of so many Democratic politicians, (Hilary's lying, Clinton's scandalous sexual exploits, the blind allegiance without judgment that so many of their supporters have), and I'm sick of the Republicans, who mercilessly sabotaged their own good candidate in a disgusting power play inside their own party. I've come to the conclusion that almost all politicians, even more than the rest of us, have an ungodly desire for power and a self-centered, self-serving mindset that is overwhelming. They serve their own self-interest - just look at how we get Obamacare but they don't. If it's so good, why are they exempt?
> 
> ...


I think anyone who runs for office has a certain arrogance about him. S/He has to think highly of himself even to attempt a run for public office. Once s/he has the power it can get out of hand.
I don't think that Obama lacks respect for the general public. I think that's a perception promoted by some talk show hosts and other anti-Obama people and yes, I think it comes from an anti-black attitude to start with.
I am using restraint, in case anyone doesn't think so, and I am not trying to "play the race card." It's what I think.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Rocky,
> Wait a minute - I remember when aids was first discovered. There were men who had Kaposi's sarcoma - a rare cancer. It soon became clear that they were gay men. Because it was transmitted by bodily fluids, there were eventually others who got it through sexual contact with gay men, blood transfusions, organ transplants. It was a concern that close contact could cause it to be transmitted, and people weren't sure about saliva, tears, etc. Then we learned that it wasn't as easy as we thought to get it. It started as a homosexual illness, and it is still largely that, although others do get it. I think I have that right.
> If you mean it's not JUST a gay PROBLEM, it's more than that in the sense that its effects are far-reaching and touch people other than gays.


It began with the gays, but quickly morphed into the heterosexual community. Through transfusions, bisexual sex etc. No it not just GAY problem.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

marykelly said:


> With you on that one. Too many people forget that our rights are not given to us by our government but are God-given (read the opening to the Declaration of Independence). What the government gives it can take away. The further we get from our basic roots and philosophies, the more danger we are in of losing our freedoms altogether.


Fortunately, it's very difficult to amend the Constitution. No part of the government can do so without our consent. It concerns me that there a lot of people who are scared by all the gun violence we see these days. I wonder if there is more gun violence or is there more reporting of it, excluding the mass killings in movie theatres and schools, etc. It seems to me that gun violence has always been with us, and perhaps more so in other times.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Are guns the problem? Or are parents not taking care of their children and/or society has gone awry with today's culture. Maybe it is not the guns. Lanza's mother should have known how badly off her child was if she was watching. Instead she bought him guns.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Well, in a sense you are correct. Hitler only disarmed the Jewish citizenry. I'm sorry. That doesn't give me any better sense of security for allowing the government to continue to chip away at our second ammendment rights.


Jews never had many arms. They ere not considered German citizens so they were not allowed to have them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bonnie, it's okay to rant. These are hard and trying times in this country. I see in both parties some Congressmen and Senators who only push their party's agenda and ignore the needs and wants of their constituents, the very people who put them in office.
I think what hurt the Republican Party is the Tea Party. If they pulled away from the GOP and stood on their own, then I think the GOP could be once again the formidable party they once were. I think a 2 party system is archaic. 
We have the Independant and Green party, though not large and paid for by lobbyists, they do exist.
I do agree that the senate and congress should have the same insurance as the people for whom they serve. After all they are employed by us.
Do I worship Obama? No, butI do respect him and what he is trying to do. I am however not at all happy that he is throwing SS and medicare into his budget. 
I do like the Clintons. Even though the sex scandal rocked the White House (padon the pun), Bill is brilliant and has a brain for economics like no other that I have seen in office. I like Hillary because she has guts. She forgave him even though the rest of the country didn't.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I like your rant - I feel the same way about the two parties. We need them but right now, they are so far apart it is hurting the country.


I agree.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> If Janeway and the others don't return I'll eat my hat--joyfully, as I'd rather force down a huge scratchy sombrero or even one of the QE's tinfoil helmets than put up with her and the rest of them for one second longer.


Sorry, can't oblige you choking on your hat, although watching that would be more fun than an amusement park ride.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Bonnie, it's okay to rant. These are hard and trying times in this country. I see in both parties some Congressmen and Senators who only push their party's agenda and ignore the needs and wants of their constituents, the very people who put them in office.
> I think what hurt the Republican Party is the Tea Party. If they pulled away from the GOP and stood on their own, then I think the GOP could be once again the formidable party they once were. I think a 2 party system is archaic.
> We have the Independant and Green party, though not large and paid for by lobbyists, they do exist.
> I do agree that the senate and congress should have the same insurance as the people for whom they serve. After all they are employed by us.
> ...


Thanks for excusing my rant!

Yes she did forgive him, but doesn't it bother you that he lied under oath and that she also lied? It bothers me a lot. And now, as Sec. of State, she (or the admin. or state dept) deceived the American people repeatedly about the Benghazi killings. I was taught at an early age that honesty is one of the most important virtues, and I just can't believe that our elected officials lie like that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sorry, can't oblige you choking on your hat, although watching that would be more fun than an amusement park ride.


Susan, I don't understand. You were so friendly a few posts ago, and now you want us gone. ?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Bonbf,
> 
> I am totally with you.


I appreciate that.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I worry that the clamor for gun control could lead to the modification or elimination of the 2nd Amendment, and once one of the rights we have in the Bill of Rights is touched, the door will be opened to modify or eliminate our other rights.


I'd like a Tea Party because I'm so fed up with the "good" old boys in the Grand Old Party. Yuck.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> If it was a State dinner the taxpayers pay, if it was a personal dinner, the President pays


It was a rock concert, I think. Justin Timberlake? Last night?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> What about Libertarian as a 3rd party. Do you think they could be viable?


I think maybe they could. I'm interested.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm not trying to suggest that the Republican Party develop philosophies that are the same as the Democratic Party's. I think the GOP needs to take a good look at itself and make room for more people to join the party if the party wants to succeed. I think there's a difference between a Liberal Republican and a Conservative Democrat, and the GOP loses their liberals which damages their party. Yes, I'm a Democrat, but I want our 2 party system to succeed. Actually, I'd like to see more than 2 parties in the US, much as they have in Canada and Great Britain. This would give people even more choices to belong to parties that more acurately represent their beliefs.


sounds good to me, SeattleSoul.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

ruthann1942 said:


> Do you know why Japan didn't continue on and attack the mainland when they attacked Pearl Harbor? Because they feared the average citizen because they were armed.
> 
> Your saying the legislators are in the pockets of the NRA is an emotional statement and not one that is a fact. Do you know the statistics of what happens when states or cities are unarmed because of laws preventing gun ownership. Crime goes way up because criminals know the average citizen is unable to protect himself or his family. The police and 911 will not be able to protect you in time if your house is broken into they will be gone before the police arrive and you may be found dead. Why do you think these people are targeting schools, theaters and places where it is illegal to carry a gun? It is because they know that no one there will have a gun on them to defend themselves and others. That is why the NRA is suggesting that these places be allowed to carry guns and defend themselves and others should a shooter pick their place of business to target. You people need to educate yourselves and not make emotional-uneducated statements about gun control. You see guns as the enemy when they are not the enemy its the people carrying them. If gun control in whatever form it is presented is passed and the citizens are not allowed to carry guns what will happen to crime and your safety. As I said before the police will not be able to protect you and you will perhaps be found dead. Instead of gun control people need to be trained on how to safely use them and protect themselves if needed. There is a lot of propaganda out there which is just that propaganda. You need to know the truth. Look at what happened today where someone attacked people at the college in Texas = they didn't have guns they had knives. Criminals will have weapons regardless, as the law is irrelevant to them. Look up the statistics on what happens in cities when guns are banned like Chicago for example.
> Take Germany before the 2nd World War. Hitler disarmed the citizens and they had no guns to protect themselves and he killed millions of his own citizens. Hitler, Stalin and the emperor of Japan all agreed not to attack the mainland of America due to the # of citizens who had guns outnumbered their own army. We need to rethink what we are doing and make sure it really is the answer to the problems we are dealing with.


All the "gun reform" talk from Congress is just a horse and pony show. They are just doing it to look good and get re-elected in 2014. All their "reform" will do is make it harder for the law abiding citizens to purchase guns. It will do nothing as far as the criminals and the mentally ill are concerned as they do not follow the laws.

Some good news on the horizon is that some democrats are not supporting the whole reform bill any longer. They are backing off on banning weapons and reducing magazine size. They are still Ok with the stricter background checks. The whole thing just might fizzle. YEA!!!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think anyone who runs for office has a certain arrogance about him. S/He has to think highly of himself even to attempt a run for public office. Once s/he has the power it can get out of hand.
> I don't think that Obama lacks respect for the general public. I think that's a perception promoted by some talk show hosts and other anti-Obama people and yes, I think it comes from an anti-black attitude to start with.
> I am using restraint, in case anyone doesn't think so, and I am not trying to "play the race card." It's what I think.


I'll grant you it could be the perception I'm exposed to on Fox. I know they can be over the top, too - not as much as the mainstream maybe, but still slanted. I don't like to be manipulated by any tv. As far as the race card, I'm not a racist at all and won't even get started on that one. Let's just say I grew up during the Civil Rights movement, found it a painful and sad time and always supported it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Susan, I don't understand. You were so friendly a few posts ago, and now you want us gone. ?


No, Bonnie, I posted that last night before both sides reached a detente of sorts. I'm very pleased to have folks from the left and the right back, and even more pleased that everyone seems to be getting along.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'd sure like to think so!  How about us taking a vow to be polite and courteous to each other from here on out? I can only speak for myself, but I'd like an opportunity to shed that thick and prickly skin I seemed to have developed over the last few months.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Good one. No one would believe you and vegas would lay odds against it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I worry that the clamor for gun control could lead to the modification or elimination of the 2nd Amendment, and once one of the rights we have in the Bill of Rights is touched, the door will be opened to modify or eliminate our other rights.


SS, that is my worry as well.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Are guns the problem? Or are parents not taking care of their children and/or society has gone awry with today's culture. Maybe it is not the guns. Lanza's mother should have known how badly off her child was if she was watching. Instead she bought him guns.


It's not just children shooting. It's adults as well. I think it's a combination of media, mental illness, easy access to guns and the general environment.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Mary, I don't believe that It is a God given right to own a gun.Nor do I believe that laws banning high capacity magazines and military type assault weapons is abolishing the 2nd amendment.
Today on Cnn it was reported that another child was killed by a child with a gun. A 4 year old and six year old were playing the yard. The 4 year old went inside and came back out with a .22 (Rifle or handgun) and accidentally shot the 6 year old in the head. The parents were in the house at the time. The reporter was asking who would be held responsible for this incident. In my book, it should be the parents. Had that gun been locked up, a 6 year old little boy would still be alive and the 4 year old wouldn't have to go through the rest of his life with this horrible memory.
Unfortunately, not all gun owners are responsible.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I don't remember their philosophy, I only remember I didn't think much of them. Unfortunately, this happens to me now and then. The 2 party system is so entrenched in our society that I despair of the success of having more parties, but I hope for that.


Libertarians are strict constitutionalists. I find myself more libertarian than conservative. Makes for a conondrum for me as I don't like what that outcome sometimes means because I might not _personally_ agree with it.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I'll grant you it could be the perception I'm exposed to on Fox. I know they can be over the top, too - not as much as the mainstream maybe, but still slanted. I don't like to be manipulated by any tv. As far as the race card, I'm not a racist at all and won't even get started on that one. Let's just say I grew up during the Civil Rights movement, found it a painful and sad time and always supported it.


Oh, I agree with you in regard to the media. Good grief they sensationalize things and put their own spin on the topics. You have to dissect the facts from the drama.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Good one. No one would believe you and vegas would lay odds against it.


No offense meant but comments like this don't help the situation. Some of us are really working to respect one another.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Are guns the problem? Or are parents not taking care of their children and/or society has gone awry with today's culture. Maybe it is not the guns. Lanza's mother should have known how badly off her child was if she was watching. Instead she bought him guns.


People expect that the parents would know if their children are antisocial, depressed, angry, etc. when most parents couldn't name their child's favorite color or book on a bet. Most parents today wouldn't know anything about their children if it weren't for the periodic notes sent home by the daycare provider.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Good one. No one would believe you and vegas would lay odds against it.


It does seem questionable as long as posts such as yours--designed for the sole purpose of upsetting the apple cart and plunging us all back into chaos--keep going up. Nonetheless I meant what I said, and if a lasting truce doesn't hold I will pack my bags and scoot. If folks in the thread can't be civil to each other for more than half a day then there is no point to it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

marykelly said:


> Obamacare is typical liberal thinking. Do something -- anything-- and as long as it costs money the problem will be taken care of. But in this case they are attacking the wrong part of the problem. Having health insurance is not the same as having affordable health care. It's the cost of health care that's the problem not the cost or availability of insurance! People can be insurance poor and still not be able to meet the costs of their health care. I'm talking about exorbitant doctor bills, impossible rates for hospital care, and medications that cost more in a month than the mortgage! If they want to do something about the cost of health care, they will bring those costs down and forget about that stupid insurance!
> 
> Sorry. Had to vent.


Happy to have you here venting.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> No, Bonnie, I posted that last night before both sides reached a detente of sorts. I'm very pleased to have folks from the left and the right back, and even more pleased that everyone seems to be getting along.


Oh - good.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> SS, that is my worry as well.


Mine, too.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I don't want to take guns away from everyone........just make it as difficult as possible to keep guns with large magazines from the wrong hands. I truly believe we can come to some common sense conclusions. The pictures of Sandy Hook will always be with me. In their honor.


How do these new reforms keep guns and large magazines away from the "wrong people"? By definition, these wrong people are criminals/mentally ill who don't obey the law. These laws just require the law abiding citizens to jump through more hoops. It's all a horse and pony show for our "lawmakers", especially those up for re-election in 2014.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl wrote


> All the "gun reform" talk from Congress is just a horse and pony show. They are just doing it to look good and get re-elected in 2014. All their "reform" will do is make it harder for the law abiding citizens to purchase guns. It will do nothing as far as the criminals and the mentally ill are concerned as they do not follow the laws.
> 
> Some good news on the horizon is that some democrats are not supporting the whole reform bill any longer. They are backing off on banning weapons and reducing magazine size. They are still Ok with the stricter background checks. The whole thing just might fizzle. YEA!!! end
> 
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wow, what a term, like Three Mile Island or Chernobyl--implies a disaster of catastrophic proportions. Perfect.


You proved my point. You didn't even make it a day. At least you tried.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You proved my point. You didn't even make it a day. At least you tried.


KNOCK IT OFF! Some of us here are trying to have peaceful discussions and here you are again being the horses patootie and stirring things up. I think this forum may be a little too grown up for you to handle.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> We could go back and forth on this all day. Most of the presidents took vacation. Ford played golf, blah, blah, blah. My concern is discussing and understanding the issues facing our government. He is the President - he will be for 3 more years. Get over it.


Can't get over it. He is destroying this country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


Very true! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


Because too many people have no clue what 'assault weapon' means.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am sure that the lawmakers do know what defines an assault weapon. What they want, agian, is a ban on military type assault rifles that are used by the military and police with high capacity magazines that contain more than 10 rounds.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


Except for those that are true gun collectors, I don't know why anyone living in a city needs an assault weapon. So yesterday, a student at a junior college near Houston, Texas stabbed 14 students with a small knife of sorts.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It does seem questionable as long as posts such as yours--designed for the sole purpose of upsetting the apple cart and plunging us all back into chaos--keep going up. Nonetheless I meant what I said, and if a lasting truce doesn't hold I will pack my bags and scoot. If folks in the thread can't be civil to each other for more than half a day then there is no point to it.


I'm not upsetting the apple cart, nor will my comment plunge this thread back into chaos, just pointing out what a hypocrite you really are. No point in quoting your past posts, you wouldn't believe them anyway.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Can't get over it. He is destroying this country.


I agree. His healthcare plan is slowly falling apart before our eyes. Where does that leave us? The sequester is in place; the budget has not yet been presented. How many years without a budget? How can anyone think he is competent?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Because too many people have no clue what 'assault weapon' means.


But assume that assault weapon means anything that is classified as automatic or semi-automatic. You were my source, but I also looked those two things up. So if that's how assault weapon is defined, why are law-abiding gun owners opposed to such a ban? If assault weapon was defined as any automatic (exclude semi-) why are people against a ban? How about magazines of more than 10? Why not a ban?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I'm not upsetting the apple cart, nor will my comment plunge this thread back into chaos, just pointing out what a hypocrite you really are. No point in quoting your past posts, you wouldn't believe them anyway.


Point noted. Let's move on please.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree. His healthcare plan is slowly falling apart before our eyes. Where does that leave us? The sequester is in place; the budget has not yet been presented. How many years without a budget? How can anyone think he is competent?


I think George Bush and Dick Chaney destroyed our country with Cheney pulling the strings.
The budget has been presented, but probably won't be passed anyway.
Also, I don't agree that the health plan has fallen apart. It isn't fully instituted and maybe some things can be fixed if needed.
My opinion is that he is competent, but hasn't had the support of anyone outside of his party. Pretty hard to get anything done, don't you agree? After all, remember that the president doesn't make laws, Congress does.
My opinion, excluding any snippy language. Such restraint!


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

bonbf3 said:


> I agree. His healthcare plan is slowly falling apart before our eyes. Where does that leave us? The sequester is in place; the budget has not yet been presented. How many years without a budget? How can anyone think he is competent?


I'm not sure how the healthcare plan is falling apart yet. It is just now going into action. Not saying I agree with it - just noting what I see. Budget? As long as each side refuses to compromise, it may be awhile before we see that.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.

The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".

Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I think George Bush and Dick Chaney destroyed our country with Cheney pulling the strings.
> The budget has been presented, but probably won't be passed anyway.
> Also, I don't agree that the health plan has fallen apart. It isn't fully instituted and maybe some things can be fixed if needed.
> My opinion is that he is competent, but hasn't had the support of anyone outside of his party. Pretty hard to get anything done, don't you agree? After all, remember that the president doesn't make laws, Congress does.
> My opinion, excluding any snippy language. Such restraint!


Hey - were you reading my mind while I was writing my post? Except you write better than I do.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Hey - were you reading my mind while I was writing my post? Except you write better than I do.


And I was such a good girl. Not one snarky comment!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am sure that the lawmakers do know what defines an assault weapon. What they want, agian, is a ban on military type assault rifles that are used by the military and police with high capacity magazines that contain more than 10 rounds.


Most lawmakers are using semiautomatic and automatic weapons interchangeably. They are different types of guns. Even the President was using semiautomatic, not automatic in his speech over the weekend.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.
> 
> The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".
> 
> Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


And I agree that is what is occurring but I doubt the framers of the Constitution could forsee how far weapons would be modernized. And the militia was not like our military strength now.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And I was such a good girl. Not one snarky comment!


Gold star for you!!! :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Most lawmakers are using semiautomatic and automatic weapons interchangeably. They are different types of guns. Even the President was using semiautomatic, not automatic in his speech over the weekend.


And I don't do justice to the that either - I use the terms interchangeably as well because I'm not that well versed in firearms lingo.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.
> 
> The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".
> 
> Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


The second amendment has produced many different interpretations, and not everyone believes that banning magazines and automatic weapons infringes on anyone's rights. What is the purpose of an automatic weapon in today's society? Killing?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> And I agree that is what is occurring but I doubt the framers of the Constitution could forsee how far weapons would be modernized. And the militia was not like our military strength now.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Except for those that are true gun collectors, I don't know why anyone living in a city needs an assault weapon. So yesterday, a student at a junior college near Houston, Texas stabbed 14 students with a small knife of sorts.


Assault weapons are already highly regulated. Unless you're a swat team member or specialized military or a criminal you won't be able to get one.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Assault weapons are already highly regulated. Unless you're a swat team member or specialized military or a criminal you won't be able to get one.


So why are people against the total ban?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Assault weapons are already highly regulated. Unless you're a swat team member or specialized military or a criminal you won't be able to get one.


Thanks - I appreciate you posting this. Like I said - I'm not well versed.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> And I agree that is what is occurring but I doubt the framers of the Constitution could forsee how far weapons would be modernized. And the militia was not like our military strength now.


All true. They also didn't foresee the government the size that it is today either. I wonder what they would think of that.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Most lawmakers are using semiautomatic and automatic weapons interchangeably. They are different types of guns. Even the President was using semiautomatic, not automatic in his speech over the weekend.


My point exactly! Thank you for that. People have no clue what they're talking about.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I agree GW. It doesn't go into full effect until 2014


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> My point exactly! Thank you for that. People have no clue what they're talking about.


So why does that matter? What am I missing? Once they know what this terminology means, then what?


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> All true. They also didn't foresee the government the size that it is today either. I wonder what they would think of that.


They would say "Holy Crap".


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Mine, too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

...right to bear arms Hmm if I got a hold of some plutonium, I could build my own nukes and fire them off on whomever I please whenever I please. I could get my hands on some grenades and toss those whenever I feel like it.
Does that fall under the right to bear arms? After all they are considered "arms"


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> And I agree that is what is occurring but I doubt the framers of the Constitution could forsee how far weapons would be modernized. And the militia was not like our military strength now.


You took the words right out of my mouth!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Time to walk my dogs. See you all later. Be on your good behavior!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> It's not just children shooting. It's adults as well. I think it's a combination of media, mental illness, easy access to guns and the general environment.


Mental illness has been mentioned several times as one of the causes of gun violence, equal to if not greater than that of all other causes. While some mentally ill people can be violent, it is my understanding that they comprise a very small percentage of all mentally ill people in this country. Of course the mentally ill person who commits a horrendous act of violence stands out. That's not my point. Out of respect for the many who suffer but are not violent, I would ask all of you to stop blaming mentally ill people to the extent you have been doing lately.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> I'd like a Tea Party because I'm so fed up with the "good" old boys in the Grand Old Party. Yuck.


Don't worry so much about the GOP good ol' boys. It will be the liberals who will break into the Constitution through the demand for strict gun control laws, and then anybody will be able to follow behind them. Yes, I'm a liberal. However, unlike some liberals, I don't believe everything I read or hear about from the liberal media. I recommend some of you to read C. S. Lewis's "That Hideous Strength" for a good example of the exploitation of liberalism.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> SS, that is my worry as well.


My point of view is shared by many people I know personally, and have known for over 40 years. Many of them are quite liberal, yet they have the same concerns about the possible destruction of the Bill of Rights that I do.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Mental illness has been mentioned several times as one of the causes of gun violence, equal to if not greater than that of all other causes. While some mentally ill people can be violent, it is my understanding that they comprise a very small percentage of all mentally ill people in this country. Of course the mentally ill person who commits a horrendous act of violence stands out. That's not my point. Out of respect for the many who suffer but are not violent, I would ask all of you to stop blaming mentally ill people to the extent you have been doing lately.


Good point - that term has been overused and flung around too lightly. And who knows what causes someone to suddenly decide to shoot another. It's hard to know what the trigger is.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Libertarians are strict constitutionalists. I find myself more libertarian than conservative. Makes for a conondrum for me as I don't like what that outcome sometimes means because I might not _personally_ agree with it.


 I'm a pretty strict constructionist myself, but I have elements of Socialism in my personal political orientation that I would want represented. I am also quite willing to believe that I won't ever find a party whose concepts wholly represent me.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

> How much harder will it be to purcahse a gun with background checks?
> Sorry, but the whole thing won't fizzle out. They are holding a vote in the Seante tomorow on background checks.
> 
> Your exuberence disturbs me on the assault weapon ban.
> ...


What I wonder is whether any of the current ideas proposed to control guns will find its way to the Supreme Court and found to be unconstitutional. The President himself taught Constitutional Law, and I'm not sure his proposals are constitutional.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ooops. Wrong post.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Assault weapons are already highly regulated. Unless you're a swat team member or specialized military or a criminal you won't be able to get one.


Haven't some semiautomatic and automatic weapons fallen into the hands of criminals? I don't worry much about responsible gun owners, even if they want to go somewhere safe and fire off a bunch of machine guns, because they're just that, responsible gun owners. My problem is that I can't think of a good way to keep firearms out of the hands of irresponsible gun owners and criminals without violating the 2nd Amendment.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> It was a rock concert, I think. Justin Timberlake? Last night?


It was a PBS concert.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> The second amendment has produced many different interpretations, and not everyone believes that banning magazines and automatic weapons infringes on anyone's rights. What is the purpose of an automatic weapon in today's society? Killing?


For me, the problem/issue is the meaning of the term "arms" as used in the 2nd Amendment. Does that mean I can own my own nukes? It might, because, as you say, the 2nd Amendment is open to what I think are too many interpretations, and yet I am loath to change it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> My problem is that I can't think of a good way to keep firearms out of the hands of irresponsible gun owners and criminals without violating the 2nd Amendment.


Ah, there's the rub!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> It was a PBS concert.


Can a Justin Timberlake concert, by any stretch of the imagination, really be termed a 'rock' concert?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.
> 
> The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".
> 
> Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


I want a machine gun? May I have one? How about a bazooka or a anti aircraft missile?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

We shouldn't forget that the second amendment is pretty old and was written in different times and circumstances.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Can a Justin Timberlake concert, by any stretch of the imagination, really be termed a 'rock' concert?


It wasn't a rock concert it was Memphis soul shot for PBS


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Rocky, I hear you! I posted earlier asking if having your own nuke and grenades fell under the 2nd Amendment right.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Back to the Catholic Church. I don't believe the church acted responsibly at all. The church moved suspected pedophile priests around, it didn't follow any legal procedures, and it didn't really address the issue satisfactorily, in my opinion. I have a few more questions regarding the church, but I'll save them for another time. 
When we are listening to the homily telling us about our responsibilities to our church, our neighbors, and our families isn't there just one little prickly feeling of hypocrisy creeping into anyone's mind?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We shouldn't forget that the second amendment is pretty old and was written in different times and circumstances.


Ah , yes. The days of single shot rifles, bayonettes, and the ever reliable Blunderbuss. We have certainly changed since then.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I was upset to see that the Catholic church protected these offenders.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> It wasn't a rock concert it was Memphis soul shot for PBS


What was the original point of this? Who is paying for it? Thanks.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was upset to see that the Catholic church protected these offenders.


Me too Patty. Instead of turning these priests over to the police they hid them and moved them from one community to the next. No one was protecting the children. This situation has not yet been dealt with and I don't trust the hierarchy of the church to fix it at least not the ones who had anything to do with covering it up. They are just as guilty. The church didn't pay out millions for no reason. Over my lifetime I never encountered a priest like this and I do believe the vast majority of priests are good and decent. It is like any segment of society there are good and bad and it is usually bad guys that get all the publicity.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What was the original point of this? Who is paying for it? Thanks.


Since the Republicans are blowing a gasket, we must be paying for it. I think it's a cultural experience. I am all for PBS.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yarnie, I'm glad you're feeling better. I think it's best if I skip your comments, should you decide to continue posting. Vice versa, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or even more Americans will go overseas for surgery etc.



SeattleSoul said:


> Vent on. I thought it might make sense to extend the health coverage Federal employees get to everyone, and revamp it if there aren't as many affordable care options as the uninsured population would need. That would mean so-called Obamacare was acted on. I'm not sure why this can't be done.
> 
> I agree that the biggest obstacle in the way of affordable health care is the current high cost of care and astronomical copays, and the use of ER departments for primary care. It especially concerns me that we might be talking about creating even more healthcare systems instead of reforming what already exists.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What are your suggestions?



Lukelucy said:


> I don't think Obamacare is the way to go. I feel that his policies are all "duds".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not everyone.



susanmos2000 said:


> No, Bonnie, I posted that last night before both sides reached a detente of sorts. I'm very pleased to have folks from the left and the right back, and even more pleased that everyone seems to be getting along.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sad but very true. "common" sense.


BrattyPatty said:


> Mary, I don't believe that It is a God given right to own a gun.Nor do I believe that laws banning high capacity magazines and military type assault weapons is abolishing the 2nd amendment.
> Today on Cnn it was reported that another child was killed by a child with a gun. A 4 year old and six year old were playing the yard. The 4 year old went inside and came back out with a .22 (Rifle or handgun) and accidentally shot the 6 year old in the head. The parents were in the house at the time. The reporter was asking who would be held responsible for this incident. In my book, it should be the parents. Had that gun been locked up, a 6 year old little boy would still be alive and the 4 year old wouldn't have to go through the rest of his life with this horrible memory.
> Unfortunately, not all gun owners are responsible.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If background checks just slow the process of taking a gun home, someone with criminal intent will be slowed down too. Right now, if you're mentally and violent, you can buy a weapon and kill hundreds with a new, large magazine while you're good and mad. I say slow it down. Don't make it easy. IMHO


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not everyone.


Unfortunately I spoke too soon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Such restraint! I bow to you.



alcameron said:


> I think George Bush and Dick Chaney destroyed our country with Cheney pulling the strings.
> The budget has been presented, but probably won't be passed anyway.
> Also, I don't agree that the health plan has fallen apart. It isn't fully instituted and maybe some things can be fixed if needed.
> My opinion is that he is competent, but hasn't had the support of anyone outside of his party. Pretty hard to get anything done, don't you agree? After all, remember that the president doesn't make laws, Congress does.
> My opinion, excluding any snippy language. Such restraint!


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down.
> 
> Well, no. It's just Ravelry. For those who don't know, the "Bananaheads" have set up a group called "Denim and Pradas" to poke fun at y'all back here. By name. And deliberately come back here--including folks who've been banned--to stir things up and report on the "fun."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No common sense.



soloweygirl said:


> Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.
> 
> The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".
> 
> Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down.
> ...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.

1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?

2 What in heaven's name is wrong with "socialised medicine"? The National Health Service is the greatest thing our country has ever done, and we're now witnessing its dismantling. British and American healthcare companies are circling like vultures ready to pick off the profitable bits, aided by this apology of a government.

3 And last, though nobody here cares, I am not at all sorry that Thatcher is no longer with us. I wish I believed in eternal damnation. And please, don't tell me I am being disrespectful. I know I am. She did nothing but earn my lifelong contempt and that of millions more.

That's it, rubbish rant over. I'll save the Catholic Church and the rich for another time.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


Tough questions...and no easy answers, I'm afraid.

1. I suspect the rational behind the gun lobby's hysteria is that tougher regulations will ultimately lead to a total ban. I think too these fears are sparking a rash of panic-buying, with folks stocking up on guns, rifles, semi-automatic weapons, and as much ammunition as they can get their hands on while it's still available.

2. Socialized medicine--lots of fear here, both from the AMA and the ordinary average American. The AMA (American Medical Association) and the doctors it represents don't want anything cutting into their profits. John Q. Citizen doesn't want more government management and the red tape it inevitably entails. Socialized medicine = a lower standard of care for everyone (in their minds, of course).

3. No idea why Americans seem relatively unconcerned about the death of Margaret Thatcher, except that she had the misfortune to die about the same time as Annette Funicello. How can the Iron Woman compete with the star of Beach Party, Beach Blanket Bingo, and all the rest?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


I totally sgree. with your observations. I enjoy your postings and hope you continue to give an outside perspective. I have heard a lot about Thatcher, both positive and negative. As far as I am concerned she was too much like Reagan. I think we will suffer much more because of his policies.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw, your opinions are appreciated here. I don't think your rant was rubbish at all. I personally like to hear the opinions of our friends across the sea.


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Thanks aw9 those are some of the quesitons I've been thinking about as well.

I also have one more, why as Americans are you not angry with the Health/Care Providers and/or Insurance companies - they are turning pretty good profits aren't they? Just think where this money could go?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> aw, your opinions are appreciated here. I don't think your rant was rubbish at all. I personally like to hear the opinions of our friends across the sea.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Certainly gives us a fresh perspective.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bullfeathers.



soloweygirl said:


> Banning any weapons is an infringement on our 2nd Amendment rights.
> 
> The Oxford Dictionary defines the word infringe as an "act so as to limit or undermine (something), encroach on".
> 
> Our right to keep and bear arms is NOT to be limited, undermined or encroached upon. This is what the "reform" laws are doing.


----------



## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

Not at all. That kind of double-dealing just isn't right. It's one thing if they had just left and moved on with their lives. It's another to set up a site just to badmouth folks here (including the administrators) and brag about coming back here to stir up trouble.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

I care! I enjoy reading your posts and your insight. We are so close to the issues and you are more removed so you tend to be more objective. Please, continue to contribute!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree 100%.



GWPlver said:


> And I agree that is what is occurring but I doubt the framers of the Constitution could forsee how far weapons would be modernized. And the militia was not like our military strength now.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> bullfeathers.


GASP!!!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

What do you think of the Mitch McConnell "Watergate"
scandal. I notice how quick he was to say how the room was bugged by Democrats and called in the FBI to investigate, making himself a victim of dirty politics.
Could it have been one of his campaign workers recording what he said and later selling it to the media?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Assault weapons have been flying off the shelves, probably because of fear they may be regulated.



thumper5316 said:


> Assault weapons are already highly regulated. Unless you're a swat team member or specialized military or a criminal you won't be able to get one.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Not at all. That kind of double-dealing just isn't right. It's one thing if they had just left and moved on with their lives. It's another to set up a site just to badmouth folks here (including the administrators) and brag about coming back here to stir up trouble.


On the contrary, it seems very "right" <grin>


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I have noticed that too damemary. I personally know of at least 4 people that have bought the heavy hitter guns


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Thanks aw9 those are some of the quesitons I've been thinking about as well.
> 
> I also have one more, why as Americans are you not angry with the Health/Care Providers and/or Insurance companies - they are turning pretty good profits aren't they? Just think where this money could go?


Nobody ever complains about the insurance companies who are the ones who are increasing the rates and making a wonderful profit! I wonder why? Because that's good ol' American capitalism and many people think corporations should be able to make as much money as they can. Oh, and keep as much as possible, too.
Just my opinion.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


Anne - Since we have similar backgrounds you know I feel as you do about Margaret Thatcher. She ruined the lives of thousands in England but sadly many Americans don't know that or care. We think if it doesn't happen here it's not important. As far as I am concerned you are very welcome to join in here. KP is international and I would believe anyone who wants to can be here. I hope we will see you on a regular basis.
Yes, it is true we have homicides all over this country everyday and it has become so common that unless it is a mass murder it doesn't get on national TV. I feel many conservatives would just as soon take us back to the days of the old west where you settled your own scores with a gun. Somebody insults you or looks at you the wrong way. shoot them. I have yet to hear anyone who thinks they are losing their 2nd amendment rights be able to say what it is they are going to lose. This country has not been this divided in my lifetime and probably the last time people were so polarized was leading up to the Civil War. God help us all if it comes to that. There are still people in the South who have not accepted they lost that one. It is sad that some on the right have nothing better to do than come out here and poke their sharpened sticks at people that just want to have a civil interaction but for some it's there way or the highway. Even as a recent poster put they are now out on Ravelry. Good for them. As you saw she said they just like to come over and make fun of people. That's silly but it's a free country so if they get their thrills that way so be it. I will be happy to interact here with anyone who wants to be out here and have a little self-respect and show that respect to others. If they can't do that I will just ignore them. Like naughty children, bad attention is better than no attention at all. When my child was little and had a tantrum the tantrum stopped as soon as I left the room. No fun if you don't have an audience. :-(


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> What do you think of the Mitch McConnell "Watergate"
> scandal. I notice how quick he was to say how the room was bugged by Democrats and called in the FBI to investigate, making himself a victim of dirty politics.
> Could it have been one of his campaign workers recording what he said and later selling it to the media?


After reading an update this evening, that was my first thought. There is no reason for Ashley Judd to "bug" where ever these guys were. They were making fun of her political positions, religious beliefs and past bouts of depression. I think that is sad. Then, instead of directly responding to the accusation, he brought up an incident where Progress Kentucky tweeted an insensitive remark about his wife. Nice deflection. Just admit your error and apologize. How hard is that?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And we should remind ourselves of the dangers of being too rigid.



alcameron said:


> We shouldn't forget that the second amendment is pretty old and was written in different times and circumstances.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nobody ever complains about the insurance companies who are the ones who are increasing the rates and making a wonderful profit! I wonder why? Because that's good ol' American capitalism and many people think corporations should be able to make as much money as they can. Oh, and keep as much as possible, too.
> Just my opinion.


Maybe so, could be too that medical costs are now so exorbitant that Americans aren't moved to complain for fear of losing their coverage.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

They also have another thread on this forum, but it isn't very active.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I just went and had a quick look at the Denim & Pearls thread because I've often wondered what it was. I really wish I hadn't. It was your old mates from here. Their niceness to each other is even more nauseating than it was on this thread. And I really love their insistence that they never ever try to be mean to anyone. It's all those nasty lefties and their bullying with logic and rationalism. It's so unfair.

And thanks very much to those who took the trouble to answer my fairly simplistic questions. I'm learning a lot.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down.
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I just went and had a quick look at the Denim & Pearls thread because I've often wondered what it was. I really wish I hadn't. It was your old mates from here. Their niceness to each other is even more nauseating than it was on this thread. And I really love their insistence that they never ever try to be mean to anyone. It's all those nasty lefties and their bullying with logic and rationalism. It's so unfair.
> 
> And thanks very much to those who took the trouble to answer my fairly simplistic questions. I'm learning a lot.


Yes, we've all had a peek or two over there. It's always the people on the Left who are so nasty!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Nobody ever complains about the insurance companies who are the ones who are increasing the rates and making a wonderful profit! I wonder why? Because that's good ol' American capitalism and many people think corporations should be able to make as much money as they can. Oh, and keep as much as possible, too.
> Just my opinion.


You are so right, Andrea. I'm hoping ACA has a good affordable insurance that meets my needs. I am glad my state will have their own exchange as I think states may be able to put more pressure on the insurance companies to be competitive to get the business.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Actually, the Ravelry site is called "Denim, Pearls, and Pradas". I made a post there about Yarnie and if she was OK. I got to read a long post she made that did not show any positive attachment to anyone on this topic. Best of all, I got blocked and can't go to that group again. I feel a great sense of success for my troubles to find out if Yarnie was alive and well. Is it OK if I laugh at those folks on Ravelry or am I exploiting their seeming sense of safety?


Tsk. Tsk.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Opinions from outside the USA are valued by many on this Forum. Thank you for speaking up.



aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I, too, welcome anyone from anywhere to post on this thread. It's open to all, and I think it can only benefit us.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> They also have another thread on this forum, but it isn't very active.


I checked it out and it was pretty pathetic. Reminded me of girl's in junior high/middle school going to the restroom to gossip. :-(


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid I missed this. What happened? Thanks.



BrattyPatty said:


> What do you think of the Mitch McConnell "Watergate"
> scandal. I notice how quick he was to say how the room was bugged by Democrats and called in the FBI to investigate, making himself a victim of dirty politics.
> Could it have been one of his campaign workers recording what he said and later selling it to the media?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

MOMTO2 said:


> Thanks aw9 those are some of the quesitons I've been thinking about as well.
> 
> I also have one more, why as Americans are you not angry with the Health/Care Providers and/or Insurance companies - they are turning pretty good profits aren't they? Just think where this money could go?


Because it is too easy to blame Obamacare. The truth is that the insurance companies dictate what they will pay to the doctors, hospitals, etc. They make a profit every year.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Wasn't there a second political thread here at one time? I think it began as something about Joe Biden and ran for a few months, but I haven't seen it for ages.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Their other postings outside this Forum are generally ignored.



susanmos2000 said:


> On the contrary, it seems very "right" <grin>


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Not at all. That kind of double-dealing just isn't right. It's one thing if they had just left and moved on with their lives. It's another to set up a site just to badmouth folks here (including the administrators) and brag about coming back here to stir up trouble.


Ingried is that you? Someone said you were around. Just sayin'


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Yes, we've all had a peek or two over there. It's always the people on the Left who are so nasty!


We be bad!!!!


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Assault weapons have been flying off the shelves, probably because of fear they may be regulated.


Assault weapons are not on any shelves so they are not flying off them. Assault weapons are already highly regulated.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why we ignore it. We're all grownups.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I checked it out and it was pretty pathetic. Reminded me of girl's in junior high/middle school going to the restroom to gossip. :-(


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Tsk. Tsk.


Which means what?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Ingried is that you? Someone said you were around. Just sayin'


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I checked it out and it was pretty pathetic. Reminded me of girl's in junior high/middle school going to the restroom to gossip. :-(


I do want to be empathetic but they have only one view - theirs. There is no other, period. And god forbid anyone have a different view or opinion. 1 Reminds me of unhappy old women.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.


Oh my gosh! You poor souls. Please everyone take care and I hope you don't loose electricity.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> Actually, the Ravelry site is called "Denim, Pearls, and Pradas". I made a post there about Yarnie and if she was OK. I got to read a long post she made that did not show any positive attachment to anyone on this topic. Best of all, I got blocked and can't go to that group again. I feel a great sense of success for my troubles to find out if Yarnie was alive and well. Is it OK if I laugh at those folks on Ravelry or am I exploiting their seeming sense of safety?


Being banned is a badge of honor, don't ya know!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> We be bad!!!!


GW I have been meaning to tell you I love your avatar. I especially fond of Pandas. They are such beautiful creatures. I love whales, primates and elephants too. Guess I like the big mammals.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.


Ice and snow in mid-April, ouch. My mother grew up in Crosby and never mentioned that the bad weather lasted so long. My sympathies!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

SeattleSoul said:


> GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.


Sorry - I'm using my husband's IPad which I dislike because I need a real keyboard. Usually, I'm on a desktop. I will endeavor to do better, Seattle!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I do want to be empathetic but they have only one view - theirs. There is no other, period. And god forbid anyone have a different view or opinion. 1 Reminds me of unhappy old women.


I think that's what most of them seem to be, very dissatisfied, unhappy people. I haven't seen that vitriol out of the left. I would like to feel some sympathy for them too but they are so angry and I don't know if they even realize it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Which means what?


I thought you might be going to say something nasty, and we don't want that!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> GW I have been meaning to tell you I love your avatar. I especially fond of Pandas. They are such beautiful creatures. I love whales, primates and elephants too. Guess I like the big mammals.


Oh thank you - I love pandas and polar bears. In terms of primates, I'm fond of orangutans and of course who doesn't love elephants. When I was about 6, I heard the song, "Baby Elephant Walk" and I fell in love with it and asked my parents for a baby elephant for Christmas. Yeah, I didn't get it. But I did ride an elephant at a Renaissance Faire when I was 30 so that was cool!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.


Ice and snow in mid-April, ouch. My mother grew up in Crosby and never mentioned that the bad weather lasted so long. My sympathies!

susanmos2000


I know where Crosby is. Dare I say we are having global warming. We didn't used to get weather like this in April and the freezing rain is something new too. Are we in agreement that there is global warming? Debaters on either side?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

In general, I have so enjoyed corresponding with you all. I am new to KP and so far, enjoying the exchange. Thank you for being so welcoming. I am looking forward to getting to know you all better!


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

In regards to Healthcare, I think if the citizens bombarded the insurance company with their complaints they would have to listen. 

I know where I am, i have my Provincial coverage, which is available to all citizens, and then thru my employment I also pay into private coverage.

Believe me nothing is free, but I do know when I need health care I will be looked after.

Besides that the doctors that I know make very good livings and are paid very well.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul wrote:
GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.


Sorry - I'm using my husband's IPad which I dislike because I need a real keyboard. Usually, I'm on a desktop. I will endeavor to do better, Seattle!

GWPlver

Well then see that you do GW. That's all we can expect of anyone is their best effort. :thumbup:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.
> 
> Ice and snow in mid-April, ouch. My mother grew up in Crosby and never mentioned that the bad weather lasted so long. My sympathies!
> ...


I believe we have weather patterns that repeat over time. I have lived in Texas for 55 years and I've seen snow in March and 90F degrees in February. We have had warm winters and cool summers and scorching summers and freezing winters. There may be global warming - I'm not a scientist - but I don't think that we would notice the warming that much because it would occur over so many, many years.

Also, I'm drinking wine right now and I am not responsible for anything I write. 
:lol:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Is Hastings part of that disaster area in Minnesota?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> SeattleSoul wrote:
> GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.
> 
> Sorry - I'm using my husband's IPad which I dislike because I need a real keyboard. Usually, I'm on a desktop. I will endeavor to do better, Seattle!
> ...


Hey, the screen on this thing is small! I'm using my bifocals!!!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Nope.


Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Is Hastings part of that disaster area in Minnesota?


No Patty. Not sure what they will be getting later but they are OK.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

We are very glad to have you here, GW!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
SeattleSoul wrote:
GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.


Sorry - I'm using my husband's IPad which I dislike because I need a real keyboard. Usually, I'm on a desktop. I will endeavor to do better, Seattle!

GWPlver

Well then see that you do GW. That's all we can expect of anyone is their best effort. 


Hey, the screen on this thing is small! I'm using my bifocals!!!

GWPlver

First the wine now she can't see, what next? :hunf:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No Patty. Not sure what they will be getting later but they are OK.


Phew! 
The wind is starting to pick up here, too. It's sleeting on and off, and the temp has plunged in the last 3 hours.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> ... but I don't think that we would notice the warming that much because it would occur over so many, many years.


That's true, in regards to the temperature the change is slight--the only difference I've noticed is that we don't get snow in Central/Coastal California about every five years, as we did when I was young.
On the other hand, we do seem to be having many more super storms/tornadoes/hurricanes these days. Does anyone know if that's a sign of global warming?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hey ! Pass that wine around GW!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey ! Pass that wine around GW!


I'll take a glass, I have to sign off in about fifteen minutes to supervise my son's latest school project. Heck, give me the whole bottle!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary wrote:
Nope.


Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...

Country Bumpkins

It's kind of like"the force" in Star Wars CB. Ingried is always with us and sometimes she whispers to someone like damemary and then damemary just says it. It's fun and completely painless. It's kind of like when you know somebody so well it's like you are reading their mind and you know exactly what they are going to say. I think most of us have had those feelings. I know I have. Ingried is a kindred spirit and very dear to us.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> SeattleSoul wrote:
> GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Hey, the screen on this thing is small! I'm using my bifocals!!!


Small? I'm using my phone right now!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary wrote:
> Nope.
> 
> Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary wrote:
> Nope.
> 
> Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...
> ...


Is that called a troll? Don't know much about trolls but seems like it to me. I have seen a lot of Ingrieds on Ravelry. Ingried banana alot of others. Must all be kin to her. lol Looks like Ingried is a popular game to play.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...


 What is with the Ingried thing? I've seen this a few times now on this thread.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Phew!
> The wind is starting to pick up here, too. It's sleeting on and off, and the temp has plunged in the last 3 hours.


Be safe Patty. It looks like we may be in for a bumpy ride. For now we are getting nothing coming down.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hey ! Pass that wine around GW!


Will do. Like red?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'll take a glass, I have to sign off in about fifteen minutes to supervise my son's latest school project. Heck, give me the whole bottle!


None for you because you have help with school work. I'll send a glass later this evening!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup:


Ok I get it now. You are all Ingried. Got ya!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Will do. Like red?


I love red! It's good for your heart


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Small? I'm using my phone right now!


Really? You are good!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> None for you because you have help with school work. I'll send a glass later this evening!


How else am I going to get through two hours of research on the making and use of fish ladders? Meanie!


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think that's what most of them seem to be, very dissatisfied, unhappy people. I haven't seen that vitriol out of the left. I would like to feel some sympathy for them too but they are so angry and I don't know if they even realize it.


I think they live in fear. Change to them is daunting


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Is that called a troll? Don't know much about trolls but seems like it to me. I have seen a lot of Ingrieds on Ravelry. Ingried banana alot of others. Must all be kin to her. lol Looks like Ingried is a popular game to play.

Country Bumpkins


CB you remember Ingried don't you? Ingried is not a troll. She is a very dear lady and a friend. The gang on Ravelry make up all these silly games and call themselves a variety of names all beginning with Ingried. They also call themselves banana heads which probably suits them better. Ingried could always get the best of them. She never lost her temper or got angry with them no matter how hard they tried to get a reaction out of her. She could best them in every conversation because Ingried knows her facts. You know what they say about imitation being the highest form of flattery well Ingried is very flattered by the banana heads.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> How else am I going to get through two hours of research on the making and use of fish ladders? Meanie!


I have no idea what fish ladders are. Apparently, I did not study that in school. Okay, if you have get through fish ladders then you obviously need some wine. Big glass for you, missy!


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## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> That's true, in regards to the temperature the change is slight--the only difference I've noticed is that we don't get snow in Central/Coastal California about every five years, as we did when I was young.
> On the other hand, we do seem to be having many more super storms/tornadoes/hurricanes these days. Does anyone know if that's a sign of global warming?


Ahem, scientists have been performing active research on global climatic change for over 20 years now. 
Wally Broecker coined the phrase 'global warming' around 1975 when he published his Atlantic thermohaline hypothesis. 
The Mauna Loa Observatory has been tracking the atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950's and sounded a warning in the early 1980's. 
The 1990's ushered in the NEON sites at several locations around the world. They specialize in monitoring global climatic change effects on plants and animals in a variety of ecosystems. 
The 1990's also saw a large number of universities establish FACE sites to study high CO2 effects on plants. The picture there is not good. The plants initially grow larger but the nutrition level decreases. This means you need to eat 2-3 times more to get the same amount of nutrition you now obtain from your food. Insects also have to eat greater quantities and that translates to a high probability of increased crop damage. 
The higher CO2, the increasing levels of methane and other greenhouse gases cause more heat to be retained in the atmosphere. Some of that extra heat is picked up by the world's bodies of water (oceans, lakes). The combination of extra heat in the atmosphere and in the bodies of water create conditions to create super storm systems. Hence, more tornados, increased number of F4 and F5 tornados, larger and more powerful hurricanes, snowstorms with higher windspeeds and more snow, etc.
...a very brief description of global climatic change


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> How else am I going to get through two hours of research on the making and use of fish ladders? Meanie!


Susan are you talking about those things that help fish go upstream?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Small? I'm using my phone right now!


What happened to your computer?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I have no idea what fish ladders are. Apparently, I did not study that in school. Okay, if you have get through fish ladders then you obviously need some wine. Big glass for you, missy!


Bless you! According to my son fish ladders are the little staircases salmon hop up to get over dams. I have no idea why he chose to do a project on this, but it beats his in-depth study a couple of months ago of Philo Farnsworth, the inventor of some vital component found in TV sets. *gag*

Well, better tear myself away now--the fish await. Enjoy yourselves, ladies--I'll see you tomorrow.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

mojave said:


> Ahem, scientists have been performing active research on global climatic change for over 20 years now.
> Wally Broecker coined the phrase 'global warming' around 1975 when he published his Atlantic thermohaline hypothesis.
> The Mauna Loa Observatory has been tracking the atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950's and sounded a warning in the early 1980's.
> The 1990's ushered in the NEON sites at several locations around the world. They specialize in monitoring global climatic change effects on plants and animals in a variety of ecosystems.
> ...


Interesting and thank you. I will read further tomorrow.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mojave said:


> Ahem, scientists have been performing active research on global climatic change for over 20 years now.
> Wally Broecker coined the phrase 'global warming' around 1975 when he published his Atlantic thermohaline hypothesis.
> The Mauna Loa Observatory has been tracking the atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950's and sounded a warning in the early 1980's.
> The 1990's ushered in the NEON sites at several locations around the world. They specialize in monitoring global climatic change effects on plants and animals in a variety of ecosystems.
> ...


I knew it was true. Thanks Mojave! Look what's happening to the Polar bears. Pretty soon their habitat will be gone. This past year NATGEO had an article about one polar bear killing and eating another one and they said that polar bears were not cannibals and they believed it happened because each bear needs a certain size area to survive on and they are living on smaller and smaller spaces and this was the result.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> In regards to Healthcare, I think if the citizens bombarded the insurance company with their complaints they would have to listen.
> 
> I know where I am, i have my Provincial coverage, which is available to all citizens, and then thru my employment I also pay into private coverage.
> 
> ...


I will be thrilled if our new health program is as good as yours. The U.S. is so far behind in this area. I'm hoping this is the first step in the right direction.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night, GW. See you soon.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Good night, GW. See you soon.


Thank you....YAWN...checking out. Later!!!


----------



## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

The mention of fish ladders brought up wonderful memories.

Spent many spring days watching the fish come up the river and then tackle the ladders!

When my son was little he loved this, he's an avid fisherman, maybe avid is too tame probably obsessive would be a better description, lol! 

It was only too sad, he was never able to enjoy fishing with my Grandpa!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Funny how there's all this scientific evidence chronicling global climate change and we still have people that just dom't believe it's happening!


----------



## mojave (Oct 14, 2011)

If you are interesting in reading about global climatic change from the viewpoint of ecologists (and without the maddeningly-inaccurate interpretations of the media and politicians), go to http://www.esa.org This is a professional organization of scientists.

On the menu bar located in the upper third of the page:
Go to: Science Programs. The drop down menu will take you to Earth Stewardship or Issues in Ecology. The first selection is primarily a series of articles by Chapin on how we can be better stewards of the planet. The Issues in Ecology are publications you can read online or download (PDFs).

Go to: Journals. Ecosphere and ESA Bulletin are accessible to non-members. The other journals require a membership but I think you will find plenty of reading material available in the two openly published journals.

And that will be my final comment for awhile. It's back to South America for me tomorrow.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well, huricane Sandy should have been a hint. My cousin is retired NYPD Search and Rescue Squad. He is very educated in weather patterns. I called him before the hurricane hit and he said that he had worried about other hurricanes, but this one scared him.
It's not very unusual to get snow dumpd on us in the middle of April, but this one looks ominous. We could get up to a foot of snow, but now they are more worried about ice. They extended the storm warning into tomorrow, as it was to expire at 1AM. The winds are picking up, but no real precipitation yet. Just spotty sleet. The wind is causing my wifi to go in and out.
I remember the last wind storm we had. I ended up with the neighbor's pine tree on my roof! They still have 2 left. Keep your fingers crossed!
But you are absolutely correct when you mentioned that the storms are getting stronger.
When my daughter came to pick up my grandaughter tonight, I told her what the forcast is. I begged her not even try to go to work tomorrow. They have cut back on city road services here, so the snowplows and road sanders will not be able to clear it right away. She manages a store in the mall here. They close for nothing! They fine the stores who do not open, no matter what. I worked in that mall years ago, my first jewelry job. There was a tornado coming right at us. We pulled all of the jewelry and locked it in the safe, pulled down the gate, and before I could lock it, the mall manager came up and asked what I was doing. I told him about the tornado and he got very arrogant and snarky with me. Just as he was turning purple, a woman came running up screaming for everyone to get to safety. The mall has "tunnels" behind the stores in the center interior of the mall. Once other stores saw what I did, they followed suit. He told me that he would have my boss fire me for closing the store earyl and that he would impose a hefty fine on the store. I then told him that if he didn't warn the other stores that I would be on WJON radio the next day to tell my story about how negligent he was by trying to keep the mall employees in danger. When we heard the all clear siren 30 minutes later, I went and looked outside. A few cars were blown up against the building, the entrance doors were shattered, as were several skylights throughout the mall. There were trees all over the parking lot. When I reopened the shop I immediately called my boss at home. He chewed that ridiculous mall manager a new one.


----------



## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I still don't understand why law-abiding citizens are opposed to a ban on assault weapons. The slippery slope argument is not valid, in my opinion because it really doesn't do anything to the second amendment.


I have no problem with a ban on assault weapons. But its pointless. Most people are killed by hand guns. Are they next? It isn't the guns that are the problem. It's the people who use them. Before we had guns it was knives and arrows, and before that pointed sticks and clubs. A gun is a tool of death. It's the attitude that they have a right to what they want regardless of who is hurt that is the problem. How to fix that is another story. I think the idea of backgrond checks is a good one, but unfortunately, the data banks that would have to be accessed are woefully inadequate. And you also have the idiots like Lanza's mother who don't see a problem with a person without a sense of empathy having access to dangerous weapons. No solution is ideal.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Sorry - I'm using my husband's IPad which I dislike because I need a real keyboard. Usually, I'm on a desktop. I will endeavor to do better, Seattle!


Thanks. I reread my remark and it sounded a bit rude, which wasn't the way I wanted to sound. Hope you get back to the desktop soon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I only know of Arizona. Sorry.



thumper5316 said:


> Assault weapons are not on any shelves so they are not flying off them. Assault weapons are already highly regulated.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Now that's a storm. I bet you're all prepared.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or insecure female teenagers.



GWPlver said:


> I do want to be empathetic but they have only one view - theirs. There is no other, period. And god forbid anyone have a different view or opinion. 1 Reminds me of unhappy old women.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the weather data says 'yes' to global warming.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've been enjoying your comments. Glad to have you aboard.



GWPlver said:


> In general, I have so enjoyed corresponding with you all. I am new to KP and so far, enjoying the exchange. Thank you for being so welcoming. I am looking forward to getting to know you all better!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In the states insurance companies seem unconcerned by protests. They pay lobbyists vast salaries to influence Congress with contributions and other resources. Lobbyists have even been known to write bills for them. Don't know how it got this bad.



MOMTO2 said:


> In regards to Healthcare, I think if the citizens bombarded the insurance company with their complaints they would have to listen.
> 
> I know where I am, i have my Provincial coverage, which is available to all citizens, and then thru my employment I also pay into private coverage.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid I'd need braille. Know of any?



GWPlver said:


> Hey, the screen on this thing is small! I'm using my bifocals!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I said I found that Ingried is among us. I will not reveal the secret unless someone guesses correctly. I assumed you were guessing. And this is an open forum.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Why did you answer me Suzi? Let Ingried answer me. Or...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

hiccup!



BrattyPatty said:


> Hey ! Pass that wine around GW!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried is an icon.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Is that called a troll? Don't know much about trolls but seems like it to me. I have seen a lot of Ingrieds on Ravelry. Ingried banana alot of others. Must all be kin to her. lol Looks like Ingried is a popular game to play.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried, an intelligent renaissance woman, posted frequently and got into tiffs with several on the right. She was ousted, but retains her status on KP.



GWPlver said:


> What is with the Ingried thing? I've seen this a few times now on this thread.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We should all be so intelligent and creative! Right ladies?



Country Bumpkins said:


> Ok I get it now. You are all Ingried. Got ya!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

suggestion: if he won't let you help pick topics, play dumb and tell him you can't help on content, but you will check his writing if he gives you sufficient notice. Then you can just join us for cocktail 'hour.'



susanmos2000 said:


> Bless you! According to my son fish ladders are the little staircases salmon hop up to get over dams. I have no idea why he chose to do a project on this, but it beats his in-depth study a couple of months ago of Philo Farnsworth, the inventor of some vital component found in TV sets. *gag*
> 
> Well, better tear myself away now--the fish await. Enjoy yourselves, ladies--I'll see you tomorrow.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some question evolution too.



alcameron said:


> Funny how there's all this scientific evidence chronicling global climate change and we still have people that just dom't believe it's happening!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GW, post how you want to. It makes no difference to the rest of us.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

mojave said:


> Ahem, scientists have been performing active research on global climatic change for over 20 years now.
> Wally Broecker coined the phrase 'global warming' around 1975 when he published his Atlantic thermohaline hypothesis.
> The Mauna Loa Observatory has been tracking the atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950's and sounded a warning in the early 1980's.
> The 1990's ushered in the NEON sites at several locations around the world. They specialize in monitoring global climatic change effects on plants and animals in a variety of ecosystems.
> ...


Wowm Mojave, thanks for sharing that! It really does explain a lot


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> SeattleSoul wrote:
> GWplyr, when you quote what some one has said here, could you include your remarks about it? You seem to quote other people's posts without bothering to say anything of your own.
> 
> ...


LOl GW! We're glad you are posting no matter what you are using! You don't owe any apologies to anyone, sweetie.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> Just wanted to mention to any other weather fiends like myself that the Southeast corner of Minnesota has been declared a disaster area. They got so much freezing rain the ice accumulated to several inches thick on trees and power lines taking them all down. They have no electricity or heat and temps now in the 30's. They are expecting lots of snow on top of that that will only make things much worse. That's headed towards Minneapolis/St. Paul area but hopefully will be mostly snow before it gets here. Supposed to get up to a foot of snow and strong winds starting this evening.
> 
> Ice and snow in mid-April, ouch. My mother grew up in Crosby and never mentioned that the bad weather lasted so long. My sympathies!
> ...


BrattyPatty
I think we are huge weather changes and as Mojave has explained so we are probably in the midst of global warming.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Climate change has always been happening. I just don't understand why anyone is surprised. Global warming, ice ages, and other changes in between have been happening since the beginning of our planet. I believe China is the largest polluter on the planet, why is no one up in arms over them?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I only know of Arizona. Sorry.


Doesn't matter if it's Timbuktu. Assault weapons cannot be purchased by just anybody. If someone other than specialized military or law enforcement has one that person is a criminal. What you are incorrectly referring to as an "assault weapon" is, in reality, a semi automatic weapon that has certain cosmetic alterations such as a certain butt. The bann is nothing more than a 'feel good' measure. What they could do is start vigorously prosecuting current laws.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Thumper thank you for repeating that fact 

Jobless number 346,000 new claims. Remember that does not include those that have stopped looking. Sad for America

If you get 'free' coffee as a perk at work, the IRS is looking to tax these fringe benefits. Another day in Obamaville


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

30,000 americans die yearly of gunshot wounds. Every six weeks americans have another silent 9/11. All our guns have not prevented people loosing jobs to outsourcing so companies and B$CEOS --we have never had Billionaire$ until now that the middle class money is going to them. You like guns, then volunteer your children to die in the next round. Not to be harsh but tired of people peddling more death for profit. And when you can't see the sky and mountains out your window because of smoke particulate, it logically cannot be good and eventually enough will have some effect somewhere.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I said I found that Ingried is among us. I will not reveal the secret unless someone guesses correctly. I assumed you were guessing. And this is an open forum.


I actually was curious enough to pull up an old thread in which Ingried played a staring role. It had to do with insurance coverage--Ingried's tone was brisk and no-nonsense, and the participants seemed deliriously happy with her comments and even thanked her for starting up the topic.

Pulled up another--something about placing wreaths on military graves. Again Ingried's tone was carefully neutral--this time people were absolutely furious with her and condemned her in page after page of vicious commentary.

Very strange--but there's no question that Ingried is capable of generating some powerful emotions.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I wonder if the people who voted for Obama are realizing that he is not so great as they expected.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I wonder if the people who voted for Obama are realizing that he is not so great as they expected.


I wonder if the people who voted for all the Republicans are realizing that they are not so great as they expected.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama is a Democrat and he is the bottom line. If there was a Republican president, I bet things would be on the upswing...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I actually was curious enough to pull up an old thread in which Ingried played a staring role. It had to do with insurance coverage--Ingried's tone was brisk and no-nonsense, and the participants seemed deliriously happy with her comments and even thanked her for starting up the topic.
> I was also involved in that thread. I work in health care that deals specifically with the business end of it and deal with insurance on a daily basis. I found her statements to be mostly uninformed and, at times, outright lies.
> 
> Pulled up another--something about placing wreaths on military graves. Again Ingried's tone was neutral--this time people were absolutely furious with her and condemned her in page after page of vicious commentary.
> ...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I wonder if the people who voted for all the Republicans are realizing that they are not so great as they expected.


Absolutely, rocky. Especially the ones that fold like a house of cards under pressure from the Democrats.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is a Democrat and he is the bottom line. If there was a Republican president, I bet things would be on the upswing...


Really? there is so much polarization how can anything be accomplished?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you saying that we should not attempt to make any changes because the Chinese (as far as we know) are not making changes? We can only act for ourselves and hope to enlist the world's help. But we all live on planet earth and would all suffer from climate changes.



off2knit said:


> Climate change has always been happening. I just don't understand why anyone is surprised. Global warming, ice ages, and other changes in between have been happening since the beginning of our planet. I believe China is the largest polluter on the planet, why is no one up in arms over them?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Absolutely, rocky. Especially the ones that fold like a house of cards under pressure from the Democrats.


As well they should they are on the wrong side of history.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe that bann was allowed to expire.



thumper5316 said:


> Doesn't matter if it's Timbuktu. Assault weapons cannot be purchased by just anybody. If someone other than specialized military or law enforcement has one that person is a criminal. What you are incorrectly referring to as an "assault weapon" is, in reality, a semi automatic weapon that has certain cosmetic alterations such as a certain butt. The bann is nothing more than a 'feel good' measure. What they could do is start vigorously prosecuting current laws.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Absolutely, rocky. Especially the ones that fold like a house of cards under pressure from the Democrats.


Actually, I love the American public rising up against the Reps. Way to go ordinary Americans!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not when considering the alternative. Never!



Lukelucy said:


> I wonder if the people who voted for Obama are realizing that he is not so great as they expected.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Knitish said:


> 30,000 americans die yearly of gunshot wounds. Every six weeks americans have another silent 9/11. All our guns have not prevented people loosing jobs to outsourcing so companies and B$CEOS --we have never had Billionaire$ until now that the middle class money is going to them. You like guns, then volunteer your children to die in the next round. Not to be harsh but tired of people peddling more death for profit. And when you can't see the sky and mountains out your window because of smoke particulate, it logically cannot be good and eventually enough will have some effect somewhere.


Here are the statistics from 2011.
Accidental discharge 851
Suicide 19,766
Homicide 11,101
Undetermined Intent 222 (whatever that means)

How would more gun laws change any of these numbers?

Has having a firearm saved me? Yes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why do you say that? Do you expect personally to benefit from Republican policies? If so, I must assume that you are in the top 1% of earnings. No way to win an election. Look at last time.



Lukelucy said:


> Obama is a Democrat and he is the bottom line. If there was a Republican president, I bet things would be on the upswing...


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> I believe that bann was allowed to expire.


Yes, because it had absolutely no effect on curbing gun violence.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Here are the statistics from 2011.
> Accidental discharge 851
> Suicide 19,766
> Homicide 11,101
> ...


These are the figures for lethal injures--consider also the 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries that occurred at the same time. It's an alarming trend.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> These are the figures for lethal injures--consider also the 52,447 deliberate and 23,237 accidental non-fatal gunshot injuries that occurred at the same time. It's an alarming trend.


One cannot legislate stupidity.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Ingried was terrible.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Ingried was terrible.


Ingried is intelligent, creative, just, and patient. She tried to explain every bit of her views to all, but many never did understand or choose to do so.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Ingried is intelligent, creative, just, and patient. She tried to explain every bit of her views to all, but many never did understand or choose to do so.


Horse hocky.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please clarify. Does this mean I was correct in stating that anyone can purchase assault weapons? Thank you.



thumper5316 said:


> Yes, because it had absolutely no effect on curbing gun violence.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In your opinion. In mine, she spoke for truth and freedom for all. She provided personal examples that touched many of us. On second thought, I guess they touched all of us....just with different results.



Lukelucy said:


> Ingried was terrible.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please clarify 'horse hockey.' You're not cursing are you. Someone may misunderstand and be offended.



thumper5316 said:


> Horse hocky.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please clarify 'horse hockey.' You're not cursing are you. Someone may misunderstand and be offended.


How about "bullfeathers" instead?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Horse hocky.


She was a breathe of fresh air. very intelligent.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please clarify. Does this mean I was correct in stating that anyone can purchase assault weapons? Thank you.


If you can pass a BATFE and FBI background check, sure you can. However, as I stated, they are highly regulated.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> She was a breathe of fresh air. very intelligent.


Oh, vomit.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Oh, vomit.


that's your opinion, vomit.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please clarify 'horse hockey.' You're not cursing are you. Someone may misunderstand and be offended.


This has little to do,with anything, but in my day it was "horse pucky."


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Double horse hocky.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Ooops  Incomplete post somehow didn't update, it turned into my post below.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> This has little to do,with anything, but in my day it was "horse pucky."


You could be right. It was something I heard Col. Potter say on the M*A*S*H t.v. show and I just misunderstood what he said. Ah, well.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> My teenage friends and I came up with "Gosh darn it all to fish hooks!" as a favorite substitute for the swear words we weren't allowed to say. One of my friends spent a year in Oxford because her father was appointed to a one year chair in Ophthalmology. She came back with a great way to say "shut up". The then current slang at her school was "Oh, hang it up!" It got a lot uf use.


My BIL was partial to 'fribich'. I say 'sugar' a lot.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

My teenage friends and I came up with "Gosh darn it all to fish hooks!" as a favorite substitute for the swear words we weren't allowed to say. One of my friends spent a year in Oxford because her father was appointed to a one year chair in Ophthalmology at one of the colleges. She came back with a great way to say "shut up". The then current slang at her school was "Oh, hang it up!" It got a lot uf use. A kid I knew who was 12 came home from school with this one: "If your brains were gas you wouldn't have enough to ride a red ant's motorcycle around the inside of a Cheerio". Loved that one! :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And "Private Sales" at Gun Shows or not are not subject to any type of background check. Quit playing games.



thumper5316 said:


> If you can pass a BATFE and FBI background check, sure you can. However, as I stated, they are highly regulated.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That clarifies the discussion. Thank you.



Lukelucy said:


> Double horse hocky.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Damemary, I have a hard time believing that certain kinds of semiautomatic and automatic weapons are hard to get, and as you say "private sales" don't include background checks. All a person needs is to find someone with the trunk of his car full of goodies and to have enough money to buy something.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I wonder if the people who voted for Obama are realizing that he is not so great as they expected.


Maybe a few.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe a few.


I did not vote for Obama, but honestly his government is not so bad as I expected. At least the economy is better, the radio yesterday talked alot about the stock marekt and how its doing wonderful things. But I thinnk he spends too much money, my husband and me have to cut out so many things now that our son is in college, why can't he do that too?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

The stock market is volatile. That is not a big indicator. People without jobs is very bad. His new plan is going to affect seniors and everyone else. How can you say he is not so bad. He is the worst!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I did not vote for Obama, but honestly his government is not so bad as I expected. At least the economy is better, the radio yesterday talked alot about the stock marekt and how its doing wonderful things. But I thinnk he spends too much money, my husband and me have to cut out so many things now that our son is in college, why can't he do that too?


*sigh* How many times do we have to go through this? Yes, Obama plays a lot of golf and from time to time travels with his family to Europe and the Bahamas. Name me one President who has not and I'll eat my hat--twice.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> The stock market is volatile. That is not a big indicator. People without jobs is very bad. His new plan is going to affect seniors and everyone else. How can you say he is not so bad. He is the worst!


I don't know much about economics but I worry alot about my son and daughter. I just can't give in and say that things are so bad when my children's future is depending on it. I think Obama is a Christian man and I pray that he will turn things around for all of us. Christians have to have faith...Jesus died for us and things can never get so bad. He is always there for us when we need him.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> And "Private Sales" at Gun Shows or not are not subject to any type of background check. Quit playing games.


Sorry. I thought you had asked me about 'assault weapons'. I must have read right over any comment you made about private sales at gun shows. However, I am and have always been all for background checks for _any_ sale of a firearm at a gun show.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I don't know much about economics but I worry alot about my son and daughter. I just can't give in and say that things are so bad when my children's future is depending on it. I think Obama is a Christian man and I pray that he will turn things around for all of us. Christians have to have faith...Jesus died for us and things can never get so bad. He is always there for us when we need him.


I'm sorry, but I find your comments incredibly offensive. I too am a Christian and know that Jesus died for our sins. We are free to call on him in times of great need, but somehow the fact that Obama is a Democrat instead of a Republican doesn't seem to fit in that category.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Lukelucy wrote:
The stock market is volatile. That is not a big indicator. People without jobs is very bad. His new plan is going to affect seniors and everyone else. How can you say he is not so bad. He is the worst!


I don't know much about economics but I worry alot about my son and daughter. I just can't give in and say that things are so bad when my children's future is depending on it. I think Obama is a Christian man and I pray that he will turn things around for all of us. Christians have to have faith...Jesus died for us and things can never get so bad. He is always there for us when we need him.

katlapp

It doesn't matter if Obama is Christian, Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Buddhist or Atheist or Agnostic. He is President and President's only have the power to do so much. If Congress doesn't get legislation to his desk he can't sign or Veto it, period. I think you should take god out of this equation. God isn't involved in this as we all have free will. Right? The President's "goodness" or "badness" has nothing to do with religion but with the man and the choices he makes. We have separation of church and state so please do not drag it into a political discussion. You are free to pray for your children's futures. If their lives turn out well it's probably going to be because they worked hard to have good lives or they won the lotto. In families like Bush it was inherited wealth. George was a lucky man.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sorry, but I find your comments incredibly offensive. I too am a Christian and know that Jesus died for our sins. We are free to call on him in times of great need, but somehow the fact that Obama is a Democrat instead of a Republican doesn't seem to fit in that category.


Democrat Republican Not a dime's worth of real difference between them. As far as I'm concerned, a pox on both your houses!


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I think you should take god out of this equation. God isn't involved in this as we all have free will. Right? The President's "goodness" or "badness" has nothing to do with religion but with the man and the choices he makes. We have separation of church and state so please do not drag it into a political discussion. You are free to pray for your children's futures. If their lives turn out well it's probably going to be because they worked hard to have good lives or they won the lotto. In families like Bush it was inherited wealth. George was a lucky man.


God is always with us. I will never turn my back on Him and I'll pray for you too.


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Obama is doing more travel than other presidents. Michelle takes advantage at our tax payer dollar.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Lukelucy wrote:
> The stock market is volatile. That is not a big indicator. People without jobs is very bad. His new plan is going to affect seniors and everyone else. How can you say he is not so bad. He is the worst!
> 
> I don't know much about economics but I worry alot about my son and daughter. I just can't give in and say that things are so bad when my children's future is depending on it. I think Obama is a Christian man and I pray that he will turn things around for all of us. Christians have to have faith...Jesus died for us and things can never get so bad. He is always there for us when we need him.
> ...


Your point about Obama's religious state is so on target. Too many people are fooled by the "trust me, I'm a Christian," statement, when it's the man's political views they ought to be looking at. Thank you for your clear thinking.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Now now Cheeky, let's mind our manners. Didn't we promise? There's room for all viewpoints, and frankly it's a relief to hear from someone new.
And kat, I'd advise you to get out your Bible and hold it over your head. Might serve as an impromptu umbrella when the missiles start flying. It's dog-eat-dog around here, but keep your chin up and don't let it discourage you. Everyone is welcome.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

marykelly said:


> Democrat Republican Not a dime's worth of real difference between them. As far as I'm concerned, a pox on both your houses!


Right on!


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is doing more travel than other presidents. Michelle takes advantage at our tax payer dollar.


I think so too. When times are so hard it doesn't hurt for all of us to cut back. If Mrs Obama wants to take vacations or visit with her friends there a lots of ways to do it cheaper. The Lady is supposed to set an example for us and I can't afford to spend like I used to .


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> The stock market is volatile. That is not a big indicator. People without jobs is very bad. His new plan is going to affect seniors and everyone else. How can you say he is not so bad. He is the worst!


Lukelucy,
Can you tell me just exactly what is his plan?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
I think you should take god out of this equation. God isn't involved in this as we all have free will. Right? The President's "goodness" or "badness" has nothing to do with religion but with the man and the choices he makes. We have separation of church and state so please do not drag it into a political discussion. You are free to pray for your children's futures. If their lives turn out well it's probably going to be because they worked hard to have good lives or they won the lotto. In families like Bush it was inherited wealth. George was a lucky man.


God is always with us. I will never turn my back on Him and I'll pray for you too.

katlapp

Well that is fine for you. Please do not assume I want or need your prayers. Do you think the Republican Senators men and women are inspired by God? Just heard the filibuster is on again this afternoon. I sure hope all those godly people will start listening to god and less to the NRA. I think that NRA spells god to those people don't you?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey, Andrea - Love your new avatar.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I think so too. When times are so hard it doesn't hurt for all of us to cut back. If Mrs Obama wants to take vacations or visit with her friends there a lots of ways to do it cheaper. The Lady is supposed to set an example for us and I can't afford to spend like I used to .


If the First ladys' trips are not official US business, then the Obama's pay for it. If it is official US business then the government pays for it. If she rides on Air Force One it is for security reasons.
I wouldn't begrudge the First Lady a trip. Just because I can't afford it, doesn't mean that those who can should not


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

I repeat that I will pray for you. It's not right to make fun of God or talk about Him that way. God guides my families every step and I'm blessed every day by His presence. Your a mean lady and could use His help too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I repeat that I will pray for you. It's not right to make fun of God or talk about Him that way. God guides my families every step and I'm blessed every day by His presence. Your a mean lady and could use His help too.


Let's not do the "you're mean scenario". Jesus doesn't like us belittling each other.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
I think you should take god out of this equation. God isn't involved in this as we all have free will. Right? The President's "goodness" or "badness" has nothing to do with religion but with the man and the choices he makes. We have separation of church and state so please do not drag it into a political discussion. You are free to pray for your children's futures. If their lives turn out well it's probably going to be because they worked hard to have good lives or they won the lotto. In families like Bush it was inherited wealth. George was a lucky man.


God is always with us. I will never turn my back on Him and I'll pray for you too.

katlapp

Well that is fine for you. Please do not assume I want or need your prayers. Do you think the Republican Senators men and women are inspired by God? Just heard the filibuster is on again this afternoon. I sure hope all those godly people will start listening to god and less to the NRA. I think that NRA spells god to those people don't you?

Cheeky Blighter
Live, love, laugh and be happy.


Yes, the filibuster caucus has been broken and a vote will be taken! Thanks to all the decent people who made this happen and please keep religion out of this. You know who you are. I hope.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Let's not do , the you're mean scenario. Jesus doesn't like us belittling each other.


Well said.

And katlapp, if I were you I'd run for your life--I really think you're in over your head. Everyone is welcome and you are as well, but you might feel more comfortable in a different thread. This one is lively but "abandon hope all ye who enter here"--it can become extremely volatile as well.

Just a word to the wise.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is a Democrat and he is the bottom line. If there was a Republican president, I bet things would be on the upswing...


It was the last Republican in office that left us with huge defecits.
I doubt another one would have done any better.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

katlapp wrote:
I repeat that I will pray for you. It's not right to make fun of God or talk about Him that way. God guides my families every step and I'm blessed every day by His presence. Your a mean lady and could use His help too.


Let's not do the "you're mean scenario". Jesus doesn't like us belittling each other.

Have a sparkling day!

You've got that right, Patty. I'm not so sure about what Jesus liked or didn't like but he probably wouldn't go for belittling each other. I have heard he could have a terrible anger problem at times. I wonder if Jesus ever belittled anyone?
:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

CheekyBlighter I will never take religion out of my life. Some of the ladies here are nice to me but some like you are not nice. God loves you very much anyway, and if you pray more you will be happier.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down.
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Do tell! Thanks, Freedom Fries, for clearing up the mystery. There's been a lot a lot of anxious speculation about where Yarnie disappeared to.


Give it a rest. You know perfectly well all about the other site as that is where you get your information.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sigh.. Old news.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CheekyBlighter I will never take religion out of my life. Some of the ladies here are nice to me but some like you are not nice. God loves you very much anyway, and if you pray more you will be happier.

katlapp

Please quit you are so pathetic maybe I will have to pray for you. I feel my lunch coming up. Let's see Thor, Dianna or Bacchus. Yes, Bacchus was the party god. I think what you need is a good glass of wine and a night of wild abandon! Have fun kittylapp or whatever. :thumbup:


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

This is a very rude posting. Shame on you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Actually, the Ravelry site is called "Denim, Pearls, and Pradas". I made a post there about Yarnie and if she was OK. I got to read a long post she made that did not show any positive attachment to anyone on this topic. Best of all, I got blocked and can't go to that group again. I feel a great sense of success for my troubles to find out if Yarnie was alive and well. Is it OK if I laugh at those folks on Ravelry or am I exploiting their seeming sense of safety?


I can not get over how two faced you people really are. You certainly didn't waste any time slinging mud and putting the "others" down. I was accused of stirring the pot , by either cheeky or bratty when I said that it didn't take susanmos2000 long to renege on her word, well you all followed suit pretty quickly. Keep that up and you will all get whiplash.

Laugh all you want. You are not fooling anyone with your feigned concern for Yarnie.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I checked it out and it was pretty pathetic. Reminded me of girl's in junior high/middle school going to the restroom to gossip. :-(


How is what you are doing any different?


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

I think this is the rudest thread Ive ever seen. I can tell that most of you ladies are good Christians or at least good people, but the mean ones should be ashamed of themselves. Knitting Paradise is a good place but I would never know it by the way you ladies talk. I try to be a good person and a good Christian but you laides were very rude and mean. Shame shame shame on you!


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

katlapp,

It is not everyone on this site that is mean. There are just one or two bad apples. It is shameful, you are right.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I think this is the rudest thread Ive ever seen. I can tell that most of you ladies are good Christians or at least good people, but the mean ones should be ashamed of themselves. Knitting Paradise is a good place but I would never know it by the way you ladies talk. I try to be a good person and a good Christian but you laides were very rude and mean. Shame shame shame on you!


Oh grow up and get a clue katlapp and a few of you others who know who you are. You make me laugh. Ha ha ha ha ha! You are too funny.

:-D


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with you. Don't you mean 'shame on me?'



Lukelucy said:


> This is a very rude posting. Shame on you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

mojave said:


> Ahem, scientists have been performing active research on global climatic change for over 20 years now.
> Wally Broecker coined the phrase 'global warming' around 1975 when he published his Atlantic thermohaline hypothesis.
> The Mauna Loa Observatory has been tracking the atmospheric CO2 levels since the late 1950's and sounded a warning in the early 1980's.
> The 1990's ushered in the NEON sites at several locations around the world. They specialize in monitoring global climatic change effects on plants and animals in a variety of ecosystems.
> ...


Then why has there been a pause in temperature rise which has happened despite a sharp increase in global carbon emissions? There are all sorts of explanations for the "pause" but no one seems to be able to deny it.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was the last Republican in office that left us with huge defecits.
> I doubt another one would have done any better.


With obama having doubled the deficit in his first four years how could anyone have done worse!?


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## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

I have not been rude. Why shame on me? Is this a nasty comment??


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

katlapp said:


> CheekyBlighter I will never take religion out of my life. Some of the ladies here are nice to me but some like you are not nice. God loves you very much anyway, and if you pray more you will be happier.


 :?: :?:  :?: :?: :?:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

katlapp said:


> God is always with us. I will never turn my back on Him and I'll pray for you too.


Can we not get off the G_d/religion thing? You can believe what you want, but please do not include all of us. I had not noticed that this was a religious discussion forum. I thought is was about Smoking and Obamacare.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I wonder if Jesus ever belittled anyone?


Yes, he did. He even took a whip to them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sorry, but I find your comments incredibly offensive. I too am a Christian and know that Jesus died for our sins. We are free to call on him in times of great need, but somehow the fact that Obama is a Democrat instead of a Republican doesn't seem to fit in that category.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Obama is doing more travel than other presidents. Michelle takes advantage at our tax payer dollar.


Poor Likelucy, are you paying for most of her travels? You sound as if the money is coming straight out of you pocket. Are you so offended by her spending our money or are you equally offended by the 35 votes taken on repealing the ACA?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bull feathers.



Lukelucy said:


> Obama is doing more travel than other presidents. Michelle takes advantage at our tax payer dollar.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> I have not been rude. Why shame on me? Is this a nasty comment??


OK, I admit that folks (myself included) were a bit less than gracious. The lady seems very sweet, but let's be honest--this thread is no place for amateurs. Too many people have departed with bumps and bruises--it's only fair to warn folks what they're getting into.


----------



## Lukelucy (Nov 19, 2011)

Yes, the money is coming out of my pocket - and yours.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

kat, you're using up all your "get out of jail free" cards. Can you take the heat?



katlapp said:


> I think so too. When times are so hard it doesn't hurt for all of us to cut back. If Mrs Obama wants to take vacations or visit with her friends there a lots of ways to do it cheaper. The Lady is supposed to set an example for us and I can't afford to spend like I used to .


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Damemary, I have a hard time believing that certain kinds of semiautomatic and automatic weapons are hard to get, and as you say "private sales" don't include background checks. All a person needs is to find someone with the trunk of his car full of goodies and to have enough money to buy something.


This is the reason the current rush for gun control will not be effective. The criminals do not care about the law. They will be glad that the law abiding citizens will have a harder time purchasing guns. It makes their "job" easier.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> kat, you're using up all your "get out of jail free" cards. Can you take the heat?


Maybe we should hand out free Gideon Bibles to all folks who dare enter this thread? Seems like quite a few feel the need a Big Brother standing behind them, a spiritual bodyguard of sorts.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, the money is coming out of my pocket - and yours.


All presidents have taken trips whether it be for US business. foreign relations,peace talks or simply vacations.
Most presidents did not stay locked up in the White House troughout their terms. 
Is golf now a sin? So what if Obama plays golf. It's a great way to organize the thoughts in one's head. He plays golf with John Boehner. Why aren't you complaining about him?


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, the money is coming out of my pocket - and yours.


Difference is, I do not mind. I'd rather pay for vacations than for unnecessary wars.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Agreed, Rocky.

Someone was complaining about the aid we sent to the Syrian rebels. I have no problem with that. I will give your answer on this. It's cheaper than going to war.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Difference is, I do not mind. I'd rather pay for vacations than for unnecessary wars.


You bet, Rocky! :-D


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Is golf now a sin? So what if Obama plays golf. It's a great way to organize the thoughts in one's head. He plays golf with John Boehner. Why aren't you complaining about him?[/quote]

He played golf one time with John Boehner in June of 2011.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

That just shows what a smart man Obama really is.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I can not get over how two faced you people really are. You certainly didn't waste any time slinging mud and putting the "others" down. I was accused of stirring the pot , by either cheeky or bratty when I said that it didn't take susanmos2000 long to renege on her word, well you all followed suit pretty quickly. Keep that up and you will all get whiplash.
> 
> Laugh all you want. You are not fooling anyone with your feigned concern for Yarnie.


Well, excuse me. My concern about Yarnie was very real. After last Friday's exchanges, she went silent. That hasn't been her style here. Would you rather that no one here show any concern for Yarnie? What if something bad had happened to her?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Why do people continually harp on the Obamas" recreational activities? There are real live issues being discussed but we have to hear about Obama golfing and Michelle spending money in the Bahamas. What's up with that? 
Also, I think it's wonderful that people subscribe to a religion, but if one has to talk about it all the time it gets old. We'll know what kind of a person you are by your actions and what you say. If you have to proclaim that you're a Christian from the highest rooftops, something's wrong.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I just think they have no other platform to stand on. If Obama had to use a pay toilet in England, they would rant over the money it cost and how their tax money should not pay for.....


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe a few.


You bet maybe a few. Maybe even a lot. Here's one of the things that the sequesteration brought on, quoted from "Stars and Stripes":
"More than a dozen Air Force fighter squadrons were grounded Tuesday at U.S. bases around the world, including some in Europe and the Pacific, as the cash-strapped service confronts the effects of steep defense budget cuts brought on by sequestration.

About one-third of active-duty Combat Air Force warplanes were to be grounded in connection with the elimination of about 45,000 flying hours by Oct. 1, according to a news release from Air Combat Command.

The Air Forces budget for flying hours was reduced by $591 million for the remainder of fiscal 2013, which makes it impossible to keep all squadrons ready for combat, Defense News reported.

We must implement a tiered readiness concept where only the units preparing to deploy in support of major operations like Afghanistan are fully mission capable, Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command, said, according to the release. Units will stand down on a rotating basis so our limited resources can be focused on fulfilling critical missions.

The current situation means were accepting the risk that combat air power may not be ready to respond immediately to new contingencies as they occur, Hostage said.

Additionally, the U.S. Navy has canceled the remainder of the elite Blue Angels demonstration teams 2013 season.

The Blue Angels have performed at air shows around the world for more than 60 years. A spokesman for the Navy said team members would be allowed to fly minimal hours to maintain flight proficiency in the F/A-18 fighter jets, but the six-jet squadron would discontinue group practices for the remainder of the season.

Senior Air Force officials had earlier made clear that the across-the-board defense cuts, known as sequestration, would quickly eat away at the services readiness.

Some of the aircraft that we have that arent tied to one of the standing missions right now, they will begin to go into a much reduced fly or grounded rate, possibly as early as the middle of April, Gen. Philip Breedlove, commander of U.S. Air Forces in Europe-Air Forces in Africa, said in an interview with Stars and Stripes in March.

The commands fighter fleet, spread among seven of 11 flying squadrons in Europe, will be the first to slow down operations, Breedlove said. The exception would be combat aircraft preparing to go to Afghanistan, those engaged in standing missions, or postured to quickly respond to hot spots in Africa, particularly North Africa, where USAFE-AFAFRICA is still supporting operations in Mali.

The same goes for tanker aircraft committed to North Africa, Breedlove said.

We will be able to keep them in the appropriate mission readiness for a much longer time, he said.

Well be shortening the flying time of the remaining aircraft.

Among the Air Force units grounded Tuesday were two F-15 fighter squadrons from the 48th Fighter Wing at RAF Lakenheath in the United Kingdom, F-16s from the 555th Fighter Squadron, according to Defense News. The 81st Fighter Squadron, which flies A-10s, is inactivating in May.

The Associated Press contributed to this story.
[email protected]"

I voted twice for Obama and now I feel betrayed. What has he done to end the sequestration? Before someone bothers to correct me, I know that the Executive branch of our government isn't solely responsible and Congress has been doing its best to endanger us all. How in the world can any of you support conditions that have led to inactivating military airplanes. We've got North Korea breathing down our necks and we park planes we may urgently need? Justify that for me if you dare.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

katlapp said:


> I did not vote for Obama, but honestly his government is not so bad as I expected. At least the economy is better, the radio yesterday talked alot about the stock marekt and how its doing wonderful things. But I thinnk he spends too much money, my husband and me have to cut out so many things now that our son is in college, why can't he do that too?


Kitlapp, you might want to take a closer look at the flaws in President Obama's administration. LukeLucy would have you believe the stock market is volatile. While there have been shallow dips, the stock market is now at an all time high. I completely don't get it. In the past when there have been recessions and high rates of unemployment, growth in the stock market has resulted in ending recessions and putting people back to work. Why isn't it like that now?

I believe there are a large number of capitalists and rich people who are sitting on their money, raking more in as the stock market goes up, and don't care about who gets damaged. All they want is the money. Hardly a very Christian approach, is it?

Presidents have always spent too much money on their own comfort, and have never shown any interest in what it means when we have to cut back on what we get to spend so they can go wherever they please and enjoy things you and I could never afford.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Thumper thank you for repeating that fact
> 
> Jobless number 346,000 new claims. Remember that does not include those that have stopped looking. Sad for America
> 
> If you get 'free' coffee as a perk at work, the IRS is looking to tax these fringe benefits. Another day in Obamaville


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

katlapp said:


> I repeat that I will pray for you. It's not right to make fun of God or talk about Him that way. God guides my families every step and I'm blessed every day by His presence. Your a mean lady and could use His help too.


I don't think God has anything to do with what's going on in this country now. Prayer might comfort you, but it just might not comfort anyone else.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

katlapp said:


> I think this is the rudest thread Ive ever seen. I can tell that most of you ladies are good Christians or at least good people, but the mean ones should be ashamed of themselves. Knitting Paradise is a good place but I would never know it by the way you ladies talk. I try to be a good person and a good Christian but you laides were very rude and mean. Shame shame shame on you!


I'd watch my back if I were you. The number of good Christians here may not be as great as you think. Rudeness is just the start with the good Christian ladies. If you say one word they don't agree with, they'll attack you just like they have many others who participate in this topic.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well said.
> 
> And katlapp, if I were you I'd run for your life--I really think you're in over your head. Everyone is welcome and you are as well, but you might feel more comfortable in a different thread. This one is lively but "abandon hope all ye who enter here"--it can become extremely volatile as well.
> 
> Just a word to the wise.


Susan, katlapp has God on her side. People who believe that don't usually give up on lost causes. Why not just let her find out for herself what's going on here?


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> With obama having doubled the deficit in his first four years how could anyone have done worse!?


Thumper, it doesn't matter what facts you post. O's syncopates deny, deny, deny them and blame most on the predecessors. Only when they are hit in the wallet will they begin to realize what a mess we're in. Just look at business closings, no start- ups, job-market way below what it should be at, the inaccurate unemployment numbers, increased numbers on food stamps and welfare...we all could go on. But we'll just have to sit back and watch. The latest cost estimates to implement obcare has risen to a staggering, unexpected amount.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, I admit that folks (myself included) were a bit less than gracious. The lady seems very sweet, but let's be honest--this thread is no place for amateurs. Too many people have departed with bumps and bruises--it's only fair to warn folks what they're getting into.


Like I already said, why not let katlapp find out for herself what this topic is like and how some people choose meanness over good manners whenever they feel like it. Who are you to talk, anyway? You've given as good as you've got.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

As you all can see, there are certain bits of free time I have and I respond to many postings all in a row. I can't stay glued to my laptop all day.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

Lukelucy said:


> Yes, the money is coming out of my pocket - and yours.


And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> Thumper, it doesn't matter what facts you post. O's syncopates deny, deny, deny them and blame most on the predecessors. Only when they are hit in the wallet will they begin to realize what a mess we're in. Just look at business closings, no start- ups, job-market way below what it should be at, the inaccurate unemployment numbers, increased numbers on food stamps and welfare...we all could go on. But we'll just have to sit back and watch. The latest cost estimates to implement obcare has risen to a staggering, unexpected amount.


What facts have been posted? I haven't been here much today.
And do you mean sycophants? I don't think that accurately defines anyone here. We look at facts from impartial sources and make decisions.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

momeee said:


> And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.


We need not discuss this anymore. This is a ploy to take people away from real issues that are much more important.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> As you all can see, there are certain bits of free time I have and I respond to many postings all in a row. I can't stay glued to my laptop all day.


Moi, aussi.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

momeee said:


> Thumper, it doesn't matter what facts you post. O's syncopates deny, deny, deny them and blame most on the predecessors. Only when they are hit in the wallet will they begin to realize what a mess we're in. Just look at business closings, no start- ups, job-market way below what it should be at, the inaccurate unemployment numbers, increased numbers on food stamps and welfare...we all could go on. But we'll just have to sit back and watch. The latest cost estimates to implement obcare has risen to a staggering, unexpected amount.


I think the word you're looking for is "sycophants".


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think the word you're looking for is "sycophants".


Yes. Unless she's syncopated.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You bet maybe a few. Maybe even a lot. Here's one of the things that the sequesteration brought on, quoted from "Stars and Stripes":
> "More than a dozen Air Force fighter squadrons were grounded Tuesday at U.S. bases around the world, including some in Europe and the Pacific, as the cash-strapped service confronts the effects of steep defense budget cuts brought on by sequestration.
> 
> About one-third of active-duty Combat Air Force warplanes were to be grounded in connection with the elimination of about 45,000 flying hours by Oct. 1, according to a news release from Air Combat Command.
> ...


Thank you for taking the time to post this important information. O has made it his mission to weaken our military, which is why he had so little of their support in the past election. Makes me wonder if he isn't employing a little payback????


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Yes. Unless she's syncopated.


Good one, Al.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think the word you're looking for is "sycophants".


Thanks for the correction . iPad has a mind of its own.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I just think they have no other platform to stand on. If Obama had to use a pay toilet in England, they would rant over the money it cost and how their tax money should not pay for.....


The people who complain about Obama over these silly things that don't amount to a hill of beans do so because the man is doing his job. I have never heard anyone complain on the right or left before about Presidents and their families taking vacations, etc. I thought it was very amusing when George Jr. would go to the ranch all the time and cut brush but I never questioned the cost of doing such things. Since the job is one of the most stressful in the world they need to get away and relax. I find most criticism unfouded so if you've got nothing you resort to pettiness. Get real folks. I didn't want to spend my tax dollars on a lot of things other Presidents spent money on but it's all part of the bigger picture. Like it or not. Why don't you complain to your own Senators and Congressman and ask them what they have done lately to make the country a better place. Sitting on their do nothing bums is about it for many of them. We shouldn't send anyone to Washington who will not cooperate and work in good faith. Obama has done everything but kiss those bums and yet he is the bad guy. At least the left will openly criticize the President when he does something wrong and let him know he isn't doing the job we want him to do. I know both my U.S. Senators and they know if I am happy I will let them know and if I am unhappy they will here from me too. There is plenty of blame on the right but no one criticizes them. What hypocrits. Maybe it's because you are scraping the bottom of the barrel as it is just to come up with candidates so you don't dare upset the applecart. The Dems have a deep bench to select from which is wonderful for us. What ever happened to the GOP that used to have sane people in charge who knew how to negotiate by using common sense and give and take. I think the majority of them have died and some that were good don't want to be associated with the party anymore.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.


What excesses have they flaunted that others before them have not?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I think the word you're looking for is "sycophants".


Yeah, well, I knew what she meant and was able to resist the urge to correct her spelling just as I have done for the rest of you. Give it a rest.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sycophants= Menatlly ill elephants? Just a joke folks. I wasn't doing anything to insult the elephants.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too.



rocky1991 said:


> Difference is, I do not mind. I'd rather pay for vacations than for unnecessary wars.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

momeee said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post this important information. O has made it his mission to weaken our military, which is why he had so little of their support in the past election. Makes me wonder if he isn't employing a little payback????


Do any of us actually know the waste in military spending? How about the aircraft that the air force does not need or want, however we are paying for them? Or tanks that are not needed anymore. Because the representatives in congress demand contracts for their constituencies. A friend of mine worked for NADEP, the amount of waste would shock all of us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Picky, picky, picky.



sjrNC said:


> Is golf now a sin? So what if Obama plays golf. It's a great way to organize the thoughts in one's head. He plays golf with John Boehner. Why aren't you complaining about him?


He played golf one time with John Boehner in June of 2011.[/quote]


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah. I don't care.



SeattleSoul said:


> You bet maybe a few. Maybe even a lot. Here's one of the things that the sequesteration brought on, quoted from "Stars and Stripes":
> "More than a dozen Air Force fighter squadrons were grounded Tuesday at U.S. bases around the world, including some in Europe and the Pacific, as the cash-strapped service confronts the effects of steep defense budget cuts brought on by sequestration.
> 
> About one-third of active-duty Combat Air Force warplanes were to be grounded in connection with the elimination of about 45,000 flying hours by Oct. 1, according to a news release from Air Combat Command.
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

momeee wrote:
And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.

Yes, what excesses? Name one thing that is excessive or offensive. You can't. Also, I have never been "lectured" by the President and neither have you. You carry on like the man is someone who lives in grandeur and excess. He leads a very modest person life style as does his wife and daughters. I have heard the President speak many times but if you feel you are being lectured to maybe it comes from your great dislike for him. Do you not comprehend the separation of powers and who does what. It seems there is a lack of understanding on the right as who has the power to do what and that usually the branches have to co-operate and work together. That is called the system of checks and balances which I learned in grade school so your continuous blaming the President for everything you don't like is plain wrong. Find out who has the authority to change or affect a situation you don't approve of before you throw Obama's name out there again. It is old and trite and flat oy boring at this point. All I hear is blah blah blah coming out of your mouth. Bring some meat with you if you come back and leave the same old same old at home where it belongs. It's like old fish and it smaells bad. Thank you


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes. Dwight D. Eisenhower golfed ALOT.



SeattleSoul said:


> Kitlapp, you might want to take a closer look at the flaws in President Obama's administration. LukeLucy would have you believe the stock market is volatile. While there have been shallow dips, the stock market is now at an all time high. I completely don't get it. In the past when there have been recessions and high rates of unemployment, growth in the stock market has resulted in ending recessions and putting people back to work. Why isn't it like that now?
> 
> I believe there are a large number of capitalists and rich people who are sitting on their money, raking more in as the stock market goes up, and don't care about who gets damaged. All they want is the money. Hardly a very Christian approach, is it?
> 
> Presidents have always spent too much money on their own comfort, and have never shown any interest in what it means when we have to cut back on what we get to spend so they can go wherever they please and enjoy things you and I could never afford.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same with me.



SeattleSoul said:


> As you all can see, there are certain bits of free time I have and I respond to many postings all in a row. I can't stay glued to my laptop all day.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The 'supposed need' for the sequestration was caused by the intractability of GOP Congress.



momeee said:


> And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sycophants= Menatlly ill elephants? Just a joke folks. I wasn't doing anything to insult the elephants.


Love your avatar too, Patty. Please don't make fun of the elephants. They are noble beasts who work hard and have great compassion for other elephants. More than I can say for some people I know. They do eat and poop a lot but I can forgive them for that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree. This tactic is old. Gay marriage etc are only designed to keep people from the important matters. We will not be baited.



alcameron said:


> We need not discuss this anymore. This is a ploy to take people away from real issues that are much more important.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or constipated.
'


alcameron said:


> Yes. Unless she's syncopated.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love your avatar too, Patty. Please don't make fun of the elephants. They are noble beasts who work hard and have great compassion for other elephants. More than I can say for some people I know. They do eat and poop a lot but I can forgive them for that.


Did you hear about the elephant shot in a drive by shooting?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Or constipated.
> '


Wonderful way to get those of differing opinions engaged in discussion. What's with you guys?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo, Cheeky. A most effective comment. Thank you.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> momeee wrote:
> And it is particularly offensive to witness the o's flaunting their excesses in their lifestyle, while lecturing the general public on sacrifice, belt tightening and the supposed need for the supposed sequestration.
> 
> Yes, what excesses? Name one thing that is excessive or offensive. You can't. Also, I have never been "lectured" by the President and neither have you. You carry on like the man is someone who lives in grandeur and excess. He leads a very modest person life style as does his wife and daughters. I have heard the President speak many times but if you feel you are being lectured to maybe it comes from your great dislike for him. Do you not comprehend the separation of powers and who does what. It seems there is a lack of understanding on the right as who has the power to do what and that usually the branches have to co-operate and work together. That is called the system of checks and balances which I learned in grade school so your continuous blaming the President for everything you don't like is plain wrong. Find out who has the authority to change or affect a situation you don't approve of before you throw Obama's name out there again. It is old and trite and flat oy boring at this point. All I hear is blah blah blah coming out of your mouth. Bring some meat with you if you come back and leave the same old same old at home where it belongs. It's like old fish and it smaells bad. Thank you


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lighten up thumper  humor is a good thing


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I happen to think that the elephants are smart enough to enjoy the joke. I did too.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love your avatar too, Patty. Please don't make fun of the elephants. They are noble beasts who work hard and have great compassion for other elephants. More than I can say for some people I know. They do eat and poop a lot but I can forgive them for that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love your avatar too, Patty. Please don't make fun of the elephants. They are noble beasts who work hard and have great compassion for other elephants. More than I can say for some people I know. They do eat and poop a lot but I can forgive them for that.


I am about to change it again.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Yeah. I don't care.


So it's OK with you that Congress hasn't done its job, we're now experiencing the consequences of the sequestration, and flight ready planes that could defend us when Kim Jong Un stops rattling his saber and starts playing with his nukes?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That is wicked. I wish the herd had been able to respond.



rocky1991 said:


> Did you hear about the elephant shot in a drive by shooting?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Wonderful way to get those of differing opinions engaged in discussion. What's with you guys?


 :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> lighten up thumper  humor is a good thing


I guess that I was failing to see the humor since the development of the thread started with pointing out the grammatical error of another poster.

I stand by my "way to go".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think baby kim is shooting blanks looking for a bribe from someone. Silly boy. I still have hope that China (much closer to the action) will step in.



SeattleSoul said:


> So it's OK with you that Congress hasn't done its job, we're now experiencing the consequences of the sequestration, and flight ready planes that could defend us when Kim Jong Un stops rattling his saber ans starts playing with his nukes?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> So it's OK with you that Congress hasn't done its job, we're now experiencing the consequences of the sequestration, and flight ready planes that could defend us when Kim Jong Un stops rattling his saber ans starts playing with his nukes?


My guess is we have plenty of firepower. It will be South Korea that will respond first. Just heard on my local news about a family stationed in S Korea. They are not worried. Apparently we get the Dramatic News over here.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> lighten up thumper  humor is a good thing


Yes, take a look at Patty's beautiful grand daughter and that will put a smile on your face. Lighten up, please.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

damemary said:


> I think baby kim is shooting blanks looking for a bribe from someone. Silly boy. I still have hope that China (much closer to the action) will step in.


Heard this morning china is NOT happy with Little Kim.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Heard this morning china is NOT happy with Little Kim.


Heard that too. I think China has bigger fish to fry and his temper tantrums may get him more from China than he wants or could deal with. It's a David vs. Goliath situation. I just hope he has enough sense not to launch a missal at anyone.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Susan, katlapp has God on her side. People who believe that don't usually give up on lost causes. Why not just let her find out for herself what's going on here?


I agree with you SS--it's a definite plus to have an open thread and hear lots of different opinions. But the Yarnie Episode proves that some people just can't handle it--the GOPers have claimed that no one was really concerned about Yarnie, but they're definitely wrong. I'm sure that unpleasant episode took a lot out all of us and I live in dread of another one like it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Heard that too. I think China has bigger fish to fry and his temper tantrums may get him more from China than he wants or could deal with. It's a David vs. Goliath situation. I just hope he has enough sense not to launch a missal at anyone.


Who knows what that clown is thinking? I just heard on the radio that John Kerry is going to be in Seoul tomorrow, then travel on to China. I guess folks are betting on whether Little Kim will dare even to conduct a missile test with a member of Obama's Administration in the danger zone. I'm sure he'll be perfectly safe, but I wouldn't want to be in his shoes anyway--hope the poor guy gets combat pay for this.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you SS--it's a definite plus to have an open thread and hear lots of different opinions. But the Yarnie Episode proves that some people just can't handle it--the GOPers have claimed that no one was really concerned about Yarnie, but they're definitely wrong. I'm sure that unpleasant episode took a lot out all of us and I live in dread of another one like it.


Me, too. I wasn't trying to imply that katlapp be subjected to anything like the Yarnie Episode.
Welcome, katlapp. This is an interesting topic and sometimes we get very passionate.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Getting back to North Korea. The Pentagon and defense dept know much more than we do about whether we have enough planes, ships and troops to handle the situation IF it arises. Watching Wolf Blitzer last night a spokesman for Chinese gov't said that China does not believe that one country (North Korea)should be a nuclear power and threaten the world.
People in South Korea seem so calm. It comes from decades of psychological warfare from the north.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> People in South Korea seem so calm. It comes from decades of psychological warfare from the north.


I know, North Korea's blustering and threats are nothing new to them. A sad state of affairs.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I know, North Korea's blustering and threats are nothing new to them. A sad state of affairs.


It sure is. I wouldn't want to be Kerry or anyone else over there right now. I hope all he is doing is posturing for everyone's sake.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Grandma Patty - How often do you have baby photo shoots? She seems very aware of the camera. Too cute!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, take a look at Patty's beautiful grand daughter and that will put a smile on your face. Lighten up, please.


So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


I didn't think I could be shocked by anything on here, but you have managed it. Utterly disgusting.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I'm really hoping you posted that comment in haste and are now regretting it.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I'm really hoping you posted that comment in haste and are now regretting it.


I know. What we women can justify is utterly amazing.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Forget I said anything. You are beyond help or reason.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Forget I said anything. You are beyond help or reason.


Ditto


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


Frankly Thumper, that was a bit below the belt. You should apologize.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


My daughter doesn't believe in abortion for herself even though she is pro choice. If she was one of the aborted ones, you would'nt be snarking an innocent baby who's picture you can see. Shame on you, thumper.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

that was certainly uncalled for. what brought that up?



thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> that was certainly uncalled for. what brought that up?


Who can say, but thumper?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


What a nice, congratulatory thing to say to a child's grandmother...NOT:!: Perhaps you missed out on those lessons about what's tactful and what is not. :thumbdown:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> that was certainly uncalled for. what brought that up?


if I believed in G-d, I'd say G-d would punish you. since I don't it's on you thumper , a disgusting comment


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Grandma Patty - How often do you have baby photo shoots? She seems very aware of the camera. Too cute!


This was her first at 6 mos. That flower was put in front of her by the photographer right before she took the pic. She is a very happy baby 98% of the time.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thumper seems to have gone. What was it someone said here about hit and run? Still, it'll have all blown over when she reappears. What a wonderful christian thing to say.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does it make you proud of yourself to say ignorant things like that? I am offended.



thumper5316 said:


> So, lets thank goodness that she was one of the chosen ones and not one of the aborted ones. Yeah!!


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

I just came back to thank all the nice ladies for the nice messages they sent me. They made me feel so much better! Thank you those who took the time to message me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What are you doing?



thumper5316 said:


> I know. What we women can justify is utterly amazing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's too ignorant of civility.



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly Thumper, that was a bit below the belt. You should apologize.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nastiness.



rocky1991 said:


> that was certainly uncalled for. what brought that up?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This was her first at 6 mos. That flower was put in front of her by the photographer right before she took the pic. She is a very happy baby 98% of the time.


She has a better average than I do, much better! :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

katlapp said:


> I just came back to thank all the nice ladies for the nice messages they sent me. They made me feel so much better! Thank you those who took the time to message me.


Did you have time for a gander at the post about abortion? Nice, my foot.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This is beyond tackless. I'm sure stubbornness will prevent an apology. Perhaps she cannot even admit to herself that an apology is due.



SeattleSoul said:


> What a nice, congratulatory thing to say to a child's grandmother...NOT:!: Perhaps you missed out on those lessons about what's tactful and what is not. :thumbdown:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I did try, but you saw the response. Foul.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't think it fair that she escape from her inappropriate comments.



aw9358 said:


> Thumper seems to have gone. What was it someone said here about hit and run? Still, it'll have all blown over when she reappears. What a wonderful christian thing to say.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't you like to include everyone?



katlapp said:


> I just came back to thank all the nice ladies for the nice messages they sent me. They made me feel so much better! Thank you those who took the time to message me.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

I saw that, there are some very mean ladies in the thread. But I don't have to speak to them. Thank God we are still a free country.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

:evil: 
Thanks aw! I saw your post. What an incredibly stupid thing to say about a baby. :twisted: (MEANING THUMPER)
Somebody get the Holy Water out


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and to pray for our enemies and I will do that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Katlapp, thanks.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I have to wonder if thumper says this to all of the mothers and grandmothers she meets. This is the last I will post about this.
I'm sure she jumped down the rabbit hole.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I think Thumper needs our prayers to turn her head around about abortion. So many people think it's OK but it isn't.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

This is an example of their twisted logic. If you believe in a woman's right to choose, you have to abort everything. There won't any remorse from her because God is on her side.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://jesus-loves-you.org/i-will-follow-you/ Just found this video. Thought it was beautiful.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps you may be happier in denim & pearls thread. Lots of Bible thumping and not intellectually taxing. We understand how all the GOP fear taxes.



katlapp said:


> I saw that, there are some very mean ladies in the thread. But I don't have to speak to them. Thank God we are still a free country.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Reminds me of a favorite movie. The Exorcist.



BrattyPatty said:


> :evil:
> Thanks aw! I saw your post. What an incredibly stupid thing to say about a baby. :twisted: (MEANING THUMPER)
> Somebody get the Holy Water out


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, my dear, you have four cheeks.



katlapp said:


> Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and to pray for our enemies and I will do that.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://jesus-loves-you.org/i-will-follow-you/ Just found this video. Thought it was beautiful.


Thanks Country Bumpkins, this says it all!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

katlapp said:


> Thanks Country Bumpkins, this says it all!


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But she will crawl back out. And I will be waiting.



BrattyPatty said:


> I have to wonder if thumper says this to all of the mothers and grandmothers she meets. This is the last I will post about this.
> I'm sure she jumped down the rabbit hole.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

katlapp said:


> Jesus told us to turn the other cheek and to pray for our enemies and I will do that.


Who are your enemies?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Some pro-lifers think it's God's crusade to shoot abortion doctors and their families and staff.



susanmos2000 said:


> I think Thumper needs our prayers to turn her head around about abortion. So many people think it's OK but it isn't.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

What is wrong with you ladies? We are Christians but Ive never heard people talking like this in my life. Please look at Country Bumkins link, Jesus loves all of you no matter what.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

katlapp said:


> What is wrong with you ladies? We are Christians but Ive never heard people talking like this in my life. Please look at Country Bumkins link, Jesus loves all of you no matter what.


Don't you get it yet? I don't care about your sanctimonious tripe. You are free to believe whatever fairy stories you like, but for pity's sake keep it to yourself.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

katlapp said:


> What is wrong with you ladies? We are Christians but Ive never heard people talking like this in my life. Please look at Country Bumkins link, Jesus loves all of you no matter what.


Yes, who are our enemies. How do we identify who they are?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Look sweetheart, you caught us at a bad moment. Thumper is one of the "not-nice ladies" (as you call them), and she just posted one of the most unpleasant comments I've ever seen. It's really hard to know the players in this thread unless you follow it on a regular basis--I'd advise you not to try. There are plenty of places on the site that love to talk about religion--please pack up your Bible and scoot.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

That did it--she's gone. High fives all around!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Don't you get it yet? I don't care about your sanctimonious tripe. You are free to believe whatever fairy stories you like, but for pity's sake keep it to yourself.


Anne in America we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. This is an American site so we as of today can say what we feel . Sorry you are offended. It is the truth to us. Not a fairy tale but what we believe in. It is our commission to go forth and spread the Good News. Also Admin said we were free to talk religion and politics.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://jesus-loves-you.org/i-will-follow-you/ Just found this video. Thought it was beautiful.[
> 
> ..You might think it is beautiful, but I think you are proselytizing. I thought we are here to discuss Smoking and Obamacare? I can do without the religious lessons.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Maybe, but frankly this isn't the time or place for a sermon. Who ARE these folks who keep coming around here to preach and pray over us? All viewpoints are welcome, but I'm getting very tired of the Bible thumpers. I thought people like that had learned to stay away by now.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > http://jesus-loves-you.org/i-will-follow-you/ Just found this video. Thought it was beautiful.[
> ...


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Aargh, I was just going to apologise to her for my less than tactful comments. I'm afraid she caught the flak for all the holier than thou hypocrites. I do believe every word of what I wrote (and much, much more besides), but it usually goes through my nice humanist editing app. Still, one less.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> :thumbup:


Susan I thought you said you were a Christian. Someone on here will appreciate this. I did it for her. She knows who she is and will love it. I won't call her name but she can claim it.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> Country Bumpkins said:
> 
> 
> > http://jesus-loves-you.org/i-will-follow-you/ Just found this video. Thought it was beautiful.[
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Aargh, I was just going to apologise to her for my less than tactful comments. I'm afraid she caught the flak for all the holier than thou hypocrites. I do believe every word of what I wrote (and much, much more besides), but it usually goes through my nice humanist editing app. Still, one less.


I'm really struggling with this one--no, we weren't exactly nice but these religious types would wear on the patience of a saint. Why doesn't she pray over Thumper?--she was the one who put up that horrible post. Seeing that put a really bad taste in my mouth, and then katlapp had to start preaching her sermon. I'm sorry, but that really was bad timing.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm really struggling with this one--no, we weren't exactly nice but these religious types would wear on the patience of a saint. Why doesn't she pray over Thumper?--she was the one who put up that horrible post. Seeing that put a really bad taste in my mouth, and then katlapp had to start preaching her sermon. I'm sorry, but that really was bad timing.


Susan didn't you claim during Holy week that you were a Christian? Did you even look at the video? It is only about Love.


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

As a human being and also a believer what I say will not convince you to believe in Christ if you choose not to. But God is getting ready very, very soon to judge this nation because of their sins of legal abortion, accepting homosexuality and gay marriage and turning away from God and kicking him out of schools and our nation and not repenting, and other sins we have committed as a nation. And you won't believe that either until it starts happening. Then I want you to remember what I said. Maybe then you might reconsider. If not, then there are only 2 places to go. I am going to be with Christ - where are you going?

We will all, and that includes me, give an account of our lives standing before God in the judgment.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne in America we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. This is an American site so we as of today can say what we feel . Sorry you are offended. It is the truth to us. Not a fairy tale but what we believe in. It is our commission to go forth and spread the Good News. Also Admin said we were free to talk religion and politics.


Country, I don't want to fall out with you because I know you are a nice person. However, I've also seen threads here about the short shrift people give to Jehovah's Witnesses. They are not popular with Christians, and they tell them so in very forthright terms. Other religions are also not welcomed with open arms. I can see that your faith means everything to you, and I don't have the slightest objection to your having that faith.

I don't have any religious faith, though, and I don't need or want to be prayed for. I also don't need (although it was never you doing it) to be vilified for having the views and beliefs that I do. That has happened here.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ruthann, you are wrong. And if your God has any goodness, you will find that out one day.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan didn't you claim during Holy week that you were a Christian? Did you even look at the video? It is only about Love.


*grumble*
OK, I admit I blew it, and I should have just ignored her when she started getting on my nerves. She's probably upset now, and for that I'm sorry. Despite what folks think I don't like to see people's feelings being hurt.


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

rocky1991 said:


> Not everyone is a Christian, I am one of the "others". I resent being preached to. I seem to always get seated next to bible beaters, I am tired of the arrogance of some Christians. There are more ways to find G-d than through only Christ.


In John chapter 3 Jesus says that you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. I am sorry that you think differently but there is only one way to be saved and that is your acceptance and belief in Christ, his death and resurrection and your repentance of your sins from your heart. As a believer I am not trying to preach to you or am I arrogant as you say we are. But we care about you and your eternal home. But if you don't want to listen and still choose your own way then so be it. You have heard the truth here today. You will be without excuse when you stand before God.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

deleted by me

Changed my mind

I heard from the moderator over at Ravelry that SS was nasty to Yarnie on her site and she was banned. I think that is appalling that someone would post something on another site, without the person's knowledge, and therefore could not defend herself. The moderator took the time to seek me out, to warn me of this shawdowing, and that I could be next. There is the truth, the very sad truth.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Country, I don't want to fall out with you because I know you are a nice person. However, I've also seen threads here about the short shrift people give to Jehovah's Witnesses. They are not popular with Christians, and they tell them so in very forthright terms. Other religions are also not welcomed with open arms. I can see that your faith means everything to you, and I don't have the slightest objection to your having that faith.
> 
> I don't have any religious faith, though, and I don't need or want to be prayed for. I also don't need (although it was never you doing it) to be vilified for having the views and beliefs that I do. That has happened here.


I don't want a fall out with you either. Thank for the compliment. I didn't say I would pray for you. I am not trying to stop you from your veiws. But you did try to stop me of mine.
 I just posted the video because it is beautiful did you watch it? It is a song about love for one another thru Christ. Just watch it and then you can deny it if you want. I didn't think it preachy. Sorry if you took it that way.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Aw9358, Jehovah's Witnesses are not Christians. There used to be (and probably still is somewhere) a very good radio program called "The Bible Answer Man", hosted by someone very well-grounded in Christian doctrine. He said the JW's are a non-Christian cult because of some of their ideas about Jesus. I'll have to google it and see if the program is still around.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

*sigh* Can all this really be happening? We seem to be having a terrible run of luck tonight. [Referring to OffKnit's now-deleted post]


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

<<<<whispering, I think she said she was Catholic>>>>>>>>


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> As a human being and also a believer what I say will not convince you to believe in Christ if you choose not to. But God is getting ready very, very soon to judge this nation because of their sins of legal abortion, accepting homosexuality and gay marriage and turning away from God and kicking him out of schools and our nation and not repenting, and other sins we have committed as a nation. And you won't believe that either until it starts happening. Then I want you to remember what I said. Maybe then you might reconsider. If not, then there are only 2 places to go. I am: going to be with Christ - where are you going?
> 
> We will all, and that includes me, give an account of our lives standing before God in the judgment.


 Your G-d is not the loving G-d that I could believe in. Your G-d is very vengeful and judgmental. The Jesus I learned about was not like you at all. I would try not to judge so much and stop the preaching.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> *grumble*
> OK, I admit I blew it, and I should have just ignored her when she started getting on my nerves. She's probably upset now, and for that I'm sorry. Despite what folks think I don't like to see people's feelings being hurt.


 :thumbup: Did you look at the video?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

I did--frankly it makes me feel pretty bad now. I wish I'd checked the link before I shot my mouth off.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't want a fall out with you either. Thank for the compliment. I didn't say I would pray for you. I am not trying to stop you from your veiws. But you did try to stop me of mine.
> I just posted the video because it is beautiful did you watch it? It is a song about love for one another thru Christ. Just watch it and then you can deny it if you want. I didn't think it preachy. Sorry if you took it that way.


It wasn't really a compliment. I've seen what you write. I haven't watched the video yet. I might get round to it, but to be honest I find some American things a bit sentimental. It's sometimes an effort to realise that our countries are foreign to each other because we speak (more or less) the same language and the US is so familiar because of television and films, but we do have many cultural differences.

I hope I made it clear that I'm not trying or entitled to stop you from having your views, or even expressing them. I'm just not used to such overt religiousness(?) in normal discourse. Cultural differences again. And if your God does exist, people such as me can surely be accommodated, unless it's the OT jealous god you follow.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I did--frankly it makes me feel pretty bad now. I wish I'd checked the link before I shot my mouth off.


Glad you watched it. :lol:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

OK, I'll go ahead and say it..Kat, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Things get pretty rough around here, but there's no excuse for innocent bystanders to get hurt by the flying shrapnel.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

I heard from the moderator over at Ravelry that SS was nasty to Yarnie on her site and she was banned. I think that is appalling that someone would post something on another site, without the person's knowledge, and therefore could not defend herself. The moderator took the time to seek me out, to warn me of this shawdowing, and that I could be next. There is the truth, the very sad truth.[/quote]

Just another thought. In my humble opinion as a Catholic, this is not how you should be behaving as a soon to be Catholic. So much for your Holy Week commitment. But I guess that is okay in your world, that was two weeks ago


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Sorry, just want to add that Thumper only ever mentions Jesus taking a whip to people. Even I know that wasn't his message.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> It wasn't really a compliment. I've seen what you write. I haven't watched the video yet. I might get round to it, but to be honest I find some American things a bit sentimental. It's sometimes an effort to realise that our countries are foreign to each other because we speak (more or less) the same language and the US is so familiar because of television and films, but we do have many cultural differences.
> 
> I hope I made it clear that I'm not trying or entitled to stop you from having your views, or even expressing them. I'm just not used to such overt religiousness(?) in normal discourse. Cultural differences again. And if your God does exist, people such as me can surely be accommodated, unless it's the OT jealous god you follow.


I mean thanks for saying I am a nice person. The God I know of the OT and NT is forgiving and loving. He gave me forgiveness of my sins. I am a Christian but not a good one. I am a failure and a disappointment. But to God I am His child and He gave His only Son for me and everyone else. I just like to share the Joy I have because I want everyone to be happy like I am. It is not a judgement on my part . I have been where you are so I understand. I am not anymore special than anyone else. I just asked Jesus to forgive me and He did. In America we have TV stations just for preaching. It is common here I guess you are right it is a cultural thing.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, I'll go ahead and say it..Kat, I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Things get pretty rough around here, but there's no excuse for innocent bystanders to get hurt by the flying shrapnel.


Go girl. :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Dinner time...saved by the bell! Sorry for my share of the unpleasantness, ladies.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly Thumper, that was a bit below the belt. You should apologize.


Why?


----------



## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

God is a God of love but also a God of justice. He has commandments we are to obey. For example the 10 commandments. 
If someone in America commits a crime and is caught he goes to trial and is judged guilty or innocent. If he is guilty he probably goes to jail. That is the same with God. If we fail to keep His commandments we will be judged guilty and pay the penalty. That is why He sent Christ to pay the penalty for all the sins we have committed. But we must accept what Jesus did for us and repent of our sins to be forgiven. The reason God did this is that He loves us. That is why Christ was crucified a terrible death and made the payment so we wouldn't have to go to jail so to speak. I think that is a God of love. Guilty convictions always require a sentence be paid. Christ paid our sentence for us if we believe in Him and repent of our sins and He chose to do it because He loves us. Society is built on requiring payment for breaking the law just as God's society is built on the same. Why do you judge God for this when our society is built on the same principle of justice?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This was her first at 6 mos. That flower was put in front of her by the photographer right before she took the pic. She is a very happy baby 98% of the time.


I'm going to be a GM for the first time, hopefully, in early Dec. I want you to think, in looking at the picture you posted, what if that beautiful child had not been conceived at the most optimum time for the mom. Would you have approved her being aborted? Would it be ok with you that she would be dead?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dinner time...saved by the bell! Sorry for my share of the unpleasantness, ladies.


I have been away for dinner and I'll be away again for awhile, not that anyone cares. 
I feel that religion and a person's relationship with God is a private thing, and that one doesn't have to make a big deal out of it. You try to be a good person through your actions. If somebody has to continuously make a big deal about being a Christian or a Catholic or a Lutheran or anything else, I get the feeling that there's something being covered up or that they're bragging or something. I don't know exactly what it is, but I get the feeling there's a lack of sincerity. I'm not saying this about anyone in particular, it's just my opinion.
One thing that I like about the new pope is that he cares deeply about making poverty one of his main issues and that he is giving us lessons in humility.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Dinner time...saved by the bell! Sorry for my share of the unpleasantness, ladies.


I know. Death at any time is unpleasant.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have been away for dinner and I'll be away again for awhile, not that anyone cares.
> I feel that religion and a person's relationship with God is a private thing, and that one doesn't have to make a big deal out of it. You try to be a good person through your actions. If somebody has to continuously make a big deal about being a Christian or a Catholic or a Lutheran or anything else, I get the feeling that there's something being covered up or that they're bragging or something. I don't know exactly what it is, but I get the feeling there's a lack of sincerity. I'm not saying this about anyone in particular, it's just my opinion.
> One thing that I like about the new pope is that he cares deeply about making poverty one of his main issues and that he is giving us lessons in humility.


I care. You know I do.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'm a pretty strict constructionist myself, but I have elements of Socialism in my personal political orientation that I would want represented. I am also quite willing to believe that I won't ever find a party whose concepts wholly represent me.


Same here.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Can a Justin Timberlake concert, by any stretch of the imagination, really be termed a 'rock' concert?


Probably not - rock and roll? I'm not up on modern music terms. I sort of know pop singers, but I don't know what Justin Timberlake sings. Sorry about that - I guess I meant a concert that young people go to.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> theyarnlady said:
> 
> 
> > Off2knit, we are on a site that I can not mention as the FBI or CIA may close us down.
> ...


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I know, I'm not American and have been told before that I have no right to be on this thread, but I've caught up on the last couple of days' conversations with great interest. And usually I'm ignored, but I would like to make a few comments.
> 
> 1 One topic that really baffles me is the gun question. Why do you have so many? Is is true that there have been over 2,000 deaths by shooting since that horrible school shooting? When is enough going to be enough?
> 
> ...


What do you like? Flowers? Music? Dogs?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> bullfeathers.


 :thumbup:


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What do you think of the Mitch McConnell "Watergate"
> scandal. I notice how quick he was to say how the room was bugged by Democrats and called in the FBI to investigate, making himself a victim of dirty politics.
> Could it have been one of his campaign workers recording what he said and later selling it to the media?


**************************

And now, on April 11, a member of a Democratic PAC has admitted to doing it. I will NOT say na-na-nuh-boo-boo. That would be rude. 
(Please excuse my sad attempt at humor.)


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> On the contrary, it seems very "right" <grin>


If you read it, you would see your error.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> It wasn't really a compliment. I've seen what you write. I haven't watched the video yet. I might get round to it, but to be honest I find some American things a bit sentimental. It's sometimes an effort to realise that our countries are foreign to each other because we speak (more or less) the same language and the US is so familiar because of television and films, but we do have many cultural differences.
> 
> I hope I made it clear that I'm not trying or entitled to stop you from having your views, or even expressing them. I'm just not used to such overt religiousness(?) in normal discourse. Cultural differences again. And if your God does exist, people such as me can surely be accommodated, unless it's the OT jealous god you follow.


Anne, I think Country was thanking Susan for the compliment.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm going to be a GM for the first time, hopefully, in early Dec. I want you to think, in looking at the picture you posted, what if that beautiful child had not been conceived at the most optimum time for the mom. Would you have approved her being aborted? Would it be ok with you that she would be dead?


I don't think you'll get an answer to your very timely question. Sometimes a baby in the family does change hearts, though. It did for my dad. He was pro-choice until he had a chance to spend a lot of time with his baby grandson.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm going to be a GM for the first time, hopefully, in early Dec. I want you to think, in looking at the picture you posted, what if that beautiful child had not been conceived at the most optimum time for the mom. Would you have approved her being aborted? Would it be ok with you that she would be dead?


Congratulations, Thumper! It's the BEST.


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

Didn't take long for the nastiness to bloom its ugly head once more!!!

Seems like you can post anything you want, regardless how offensive it is, then declare what a good Christian you are and all is good.

Shameful.


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## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

MOMTO2 said:


> Didn't take long for the nastiness to bloom its ugly head once more!!!
> 
> Seems like you can post anything you want, regardless how offensive it is, then declare what a good Christian you are and all is good.
> 
> Shameful.


I agree...but our saying this obviously won't change anything, will it?


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## MOMTO2 (Feb 19, 2012)

No Momeee it won't, which is the sad thing.

I am intersted in what goes on around me, I like listening to other's point of views, I enjoy learning how others live, their values, what makes them be them.

I read papers, I read books, I watch different types of programs on TV, I talk to people, I observe.

I try to keep an open mind and try not to be judgmental, but I'm human and sometimes those judgments appear. 

However, mostly I observe and learn, and what I've learned through watching this, page after page, some things never change and it's time to drive by this train wreck.

For the most part no one is really interested, it seems to be an outlet just to keep up the tit for tat crap.

Good luck ladies, I believe there are a lot of lovely ladies who probably would be nothing like they appear to be on here!

From an outsider a little "respect" could be used on both sides.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm going to be a GM for the first time, hopefully, in early Dec. I want you to think, in looking at the picture you posted, what if that beautiful child had not been conceived at the most optimum time for the mom. Would you have approved her being aborted? Would it be ok with you that she would be dead?


Just drop it. No I don't think that way. But will you refer to your grandaughter as the "chosen one"?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> What do you like? Flowers? Music? Dogs?


All of the above. I try to get my unwilling husband to do my gardening work (physical constraints don't let me), and I love Mozart and opera and Fred Astaire, Frank and Ella and the Ramones. I'd love to have a dog but walking's not on, so we have three cats, one a Maine ****. So I'm not totally anti-American.

I've just realised you might have not been entirely serious with your question, so please forgive me if I misunderstood. It's quite late here.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I heard from the moderator over at Ravelry that SS was nasty to Yarnie on her site and she was banned. I think that is appalling that someone would post something on another site, without the person's knowledge, and therefore could not defend herself. The moderator took the time to seek me out, to warn me of this shawdowing, and that I could be next. There is the truth, the very sad truth.


Just another thought. In my humble opinion as a Catholic, this is not how you should be behaving as a soon to be Catholic. So much for your Holy Week commitment. But I guess that is okay in your world, that was two weeks ago[/quote]

That dead horse you're dragging around is really starting to smell.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I heard from the moderator over at Ravelry that SS was nasty to Yarnie on her site and she was banned. I think that is appalling that someone would post something on another site, without the person's knowledge, and therefore could not defend herself. The moderator took the time to seek me out, to warn me of this shawdowing, and that I could be next. There is the truth, the very sad truth.


Just another thought. In my humble opinion as a Catholic, this is not how you should be behaving as a soon to be Catholic. So much for your Holy Week commitment. But I guess that is okay in your world, that was two weeks ago[/quote]

That dead horse you're dragging around is really starting to smell. I don't think anyone from here will "shadow" you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Agree, I thought we had dropped that matter. It's over. Finished.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> **************************
> 
> And now, on April 11, a member of a Democratic PAC has admitted to doing it. I will NOT say na-na-nuh-boo-boo. That would be rude.
> (Please excuse my sad attempt at humor.)


LOL Bonnie! You can nah nah nah nah nah me. Yes I did hear that it was a liberal group who bugged the conference room. Dirty politics again! I personally don't condone it. But I don't think what McConnell was going to attack Ashley Judd with was too cool either. Depression is something every human goes through at least once in their lives. But that politics ugh!


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Just drop it. No I don't think that way.


Yeah, to think otherwise is pretty bad, isn't it.

Have a sparkling day!!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That did it--she's gone. High fives all around!


Bur you never know what'll come along next. After a pleasant exchange of PMs with Janeway she has taken it into her mind that I'm an awful person so I've gotten a couple of awful PMs. I'll be waiting to pounce on her if she shows her face here again.:!: :!: :hunf:

Good night ladies, I'm giving this topic up for the rest of the evening. See you in the morning.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Yeah, to think otherwise is pretty bad, isn't it.
> 
> Have a sparkling day!!


I just don't think the way you do. I would never saywhat you did to any mother or grandmother. It's insulting on both sides.
Will you call your grandbaby the chosen one? I wanted to have my 2 children as my daughter wanted to have hers. Abortion never entered my mind nor the mind of my daughter. They were wanted, not chosen. At the same time I would never judge a woman who was carrying an unwanted child. The decision is hers.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Good night everyone. Sleep well.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good nite! Going to watch the West Wing for a while while I eat my ice cream  Sweet dreams all!
May be back if I get insomnia again.. Danged Fibro


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Same to you all. Ciao!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Your G-d is not the loving G-d that I could believe in. Your G-d is very vengeful and judgmental. The Jesus I learned about was not like you at all. I would try not to judge so much and stop the preaching.


Yes, sometimes people forget that deal about "judge not lest ye be judged."


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

bonbf3 said:


> You might be surprised - you're really not the main topic of conversation for bananaheads.


There's this similar site here on KP called "FF Wearing Denim and Pearls". Need I say more?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

We all know SS. Been there for along time. Anyone can talk on it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MOMTO2 said:


> Didn't take long for the nastiness to bloom its ugly head once more!!!
> 
> Seems like you can post anything you want, regardless how offensive it is, then declare what a good Christian you are and all is good.
> 
> Shameful.


No, not shameful. Just a fine old tradition.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good nite! Going to watch the West Wing for a while while I eat my ice cream  Sweet dreams all!
> May be back if I get insomnia again.. Danged Fibro


Picture of a cutie pie. :lol:. Prayers for rest and sweet dreams. XXX


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Thumper, maybe you won't become a GM for the first time. Maybe there'll be a miscarriage or the parents-to-be secretly believe abortion would be the best choice this time around. It would really balance that "chosen one, aborted one" remark you made to BrattyPatty. Sometimes God likes to balance things and we never know where or when or how he'll do it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps we should all preach our beliefs in religion and politics. No more attempting to talk with the other side. Thoughts, please.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne in America we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. This is an American site so we as of today can say what we feel . Sorry you are offended. It is the truth to us. Not a fairy tale but what we believe in. It is our commission to go forth and spread the Good News. Also Admin said we were free to talk religion and politics.


----------



## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

I would hate to wish that on anyone. I think too much has been made of an off hand remark. I have four children, the last two unplanned, but ardently wanted by the time they arrived. I feel for a woman carrying a child she does not want, but I would suggest she put it up for adoption rather than abort it. There are many couples that can't have children that want them desperately.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried will not claim it. Isn't she 'she who cannot be named?'



Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan I thought you said you were a Christian. Someone on here will appreciate this. I did it for her. She knows who she is and will love it. I won't call her name but she can claim it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And your beliefs deserve full respect.



rocky1991 said:


> Not everyone is a Christian, I am one of the "others". I resent being preached to. I seem to always get seated next to bible beaters, I am tired of the arrogance of some Christians. There are more ways to find G-d than through only Christ.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No apologizes ladies. It is always appropriate to respond to this drivel.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm really struggling with this one--no, we weren't exactly nice but these religious types would wear on the patience of a saint. Why doesn't she pray over Thumper?--she was the one who put up that horrible post. Seeing that put a really bad taste in my mouth, and then katlapp had to start preaching her sermon. I'm sorry, but that really was bad timing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Give it up.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan didn't you claim during Holy week that you were a Christian? Did you even look at the video? It is only about Love.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

ruthann1942 said:


> As a human being and also a believer what I say will not convince you to believe in Christ if you choose not to. But God is getting ready very, very soon to judge this nation because of their sins of legal abortion, accepting homosexuality and gay marriage and turning away from God and kicking him out of schools and our nation and not repenting, and other sins we have committed as a nation. And you won't believe that either until it starts happening. Then I want you to remember what I said. Maybe then you might reconsider. If not, then there are only 2 places to go. I am going to be with Christ - where are you going?
> 
> We will all, and that includes me, give an account of our lives standing before God in the judgment.


 :? :? :? I'd say that I feel as though I heard the sermon for the week but not my church.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ingried will not claim it. Isn't she 'she who cannot be named?'


No it wasn't for Ingried but if she wants to read it that will be fine. Did you watch it ? It is nice. It's all about love. Nothing pushing or anything to offend anyone.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

marykelly said:


> I would hate to wish that on anyone. I think too much has been made of an off hand remark. I have four children, the last two unplanned, but ardently wanted by the time they arrived. I feel for a woman carrying a child she does not want, but I would suggest she put it up for adoption rather than abort it. There are many couples that can't have children that want them desperately.


But all said, the choice is up to the woman on what she will do.
The offhand remark wasn't made to you. And honestly, it shouldn't have been made at all to me. Because I am a liberal, do people really believe that we want nothing more than to abort our children? You have to know the poster of the offhand remark to really see what was behind it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Picture of a cutie pie. :lol:. Prayers for rest and sweet dreams. XXX


Thanks Bumpkins. She is my sunshine. Have a great nite


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Picture of a cutie pie. :lol:. Prayers for rest and sweet dreams. XXX


Thanks Bumpkins. She is my sunshine. Have a great nite


----------



## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

All beliefs deserve respect. As it happens, I agree with Ruthann. But I have a question: Why is it pushing my beliefs on someone else when I talk of my love for God and His Son, but atheists and others feel perfectly free to call me nasty names and push their beliefs on me? Respect is a two-way street.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

For som reason I must be heavy handed on the send button.
Sorry for all of the double posts


----------



## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> But all said, the choice is up to the woman on what she will do.
> The offhand remark wasn't made to you. And honestly, it shouldn't have been made at all to me. Because I am a liberal, do people really believe that we want nothing more than to abort our children? You have to know the poster of the offhand remark to really see what was behind it.


Making that kind of assumptions is exactly what I meant about respect. Your granddaughter is beauthiful! Every baby should be so lucky to have such a loving Grandma.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This response comes mainly to comment by Country Bumkin.

First of all.......this is NOT an American site. We have members from all over the globe. Anyone not respecting all those members will have me to reckon with....and many, many others.

Secondly, there are many religions with deep and profound beliefs. In Christianity alone, there are many separate sects. I'm going to name some that come to mind. Please remind me of those I've neglected to mention. Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Baptist (multiple sects), Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish (Orthodox and Reformed,) Unitarian.



aw9358 said:


> Country, I don't want to fall out with you because I know you are a nice person. However, I've also seen threads here about the short shrift people give to Jehovah's Witnesses. They are not popular with Christians, and they tell them so in very forthright terms. Other religions are also not welcomed with open arms. I can see that your faith means everything to you, and I don't have the slightest objection to your having that faith.
> 
> I don't have any religious faith, though, and I don't need or want to be prayed for. I also don't need (although it was never you doing it) to be vilified for having the views and beliefs that I do. That has happened here.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know you believe sincerely in your church's teachings, but not everyone does. Please don't take it upon yourself to judge others. If you do judge others someone will stomp on you with cowboy boots.



ruthann1942 said:


> In John chapter 3 Jesus says that you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. I am sorry that you think differently but there is only one way to be saved and that is your acceptance and belief in Christ, his death and resurrection and your repentance of your sins from your heart. As a believer I am not trying to preach to you or am I arrogant as you say we are. But we care about you and your eternal home. But if you don't want to listen and still choose your own way then so be it. You have heard the truth here today. You will be without excuse when you stand before God.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh, stow it. Or cry yourself to sleep.



off2knit said:


> deleted by me
> 
> Changed my mind
> 
> I heard from the moderator over at Ravelry that SS was nasty to Yarnie on her site and she was banned. I think that is appalling that someone would post something on another site, without the person's knowledge, and therefore could not defend herself. The moderator took the time to seek me out, to warn me of this shawdowing, and that I could be next. There is the truth, the very sad truth.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No one is stopping you from your views. It's just that many do not share them and they get tired of hearing them.



Country Bumpkins said:


> I don't want a fall out with you either. Thank for the compliment. I didn't say I would pray for you. I am not trying to stop you from your veiws. But you did try to stop me of mine.
> I just posted the video because it is beautiful did you watch it? It is a song about love for one another thru Christ. Just watch it and then you can deny it if you want. I didn't think it preachy. Sorry if you took it that way.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

damemary said:


> This response comes mainly to comment by Country Bumkin.
> 
> First of all.......this is NOT an American site. We have members from all over the globe. Anyone not respecting all those members will have me to reckon with....and many, many others.
> 
> Secondly, there are many religions with deep and profound beliefs. In Christianity alone, there are many separate sects. I'm going to name some that come to mind. Please remind me of those I've neglected to mention. Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox, Baptist (multiple sects), Lutheran, Methodist, Amish, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish (Orthodox and Reformed,) Unitarian.


Anne and I are friends and understand each other. I was talking to her not you so you can let it drop. We are all good. No worries.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Addendum:

Hindu, Shinto, Jehovah Witness.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Episcopalian.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thumper you owe an apology for your comment about grandchildren to grandmother. It was inappropriate and you know it. If you don't think so, please explain. Thank you.



thumper5316 said:


> Why?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

One more time: Everyone does not believe as you do.



ruthann1942 said:


> God is a God of love but also a God of justice. He has commandments we are to obey. For example the 10 commandments.
> If someone in America commits a crime and is caught he goes to trial and is judged guilty or innocent. If he is guilty he probably goes to jail. That is the same with God. If we fail to keep His commandments we will be judged guilty and pay the penalty. That is why He sent Christ to pay the penalty for all the sins we have committed. But we must accept what Jesus did for us and repent of our sins to be forgiven. The reason God did this is that He loves us. That is why Christ was crucified a terrible death and made the payment so we wouldn't have to go to jail so to speak. I think that is a God of love. Guilty convictions always require a sentence be paid. Christ paid our sentence for us if we believe in Him and repent of our sins and He chose to do it because He loves us. Society is built on requiring payment for breaking the law just as God's society is built on the same. Why do you judge God for this when our society is built on the same principle of justice?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Here's another one. I'm going to start calling you Baby Kim and letting you have it with nukes. Does this bother anyone else?



thumper5316 said:


> I'm going to be a GM for the first time, hopefully, in early Dec. I want you to think, in looking at the picture you posted, what if that beautiful child had not been conceived at the most optimum time for the mom. Would you have approved her being aborted? Would it be ok with you that she would be dead?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Perhaps we should all preach our beliefs in religion and politics. No more attempting to talk with the other side. Thoughts, please.

No preaching, please--one "official" sermon a week is plenty--

Karen N.


Country Bumpkins wrote:
Anne in America we have freedom of speech and freedom of religion. This is an American site so we as of today can say what we feel . Sorry you are offended. It is the truth to us. Not a fairy tale but what we believe in. It is our commission to go forth and spread the Good News. Also Admin said we were free to talk religion and politics


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why has there been a pause in temperature rise which has happened despite a sharp increase in global carbon emissions? There are all sorts of explanations for the "pause" but no one seems to be able to deny it.


lMind if I change the subject back to global warming and suggest an answer to this? The ice caps are melting -- on Mars. So, unless we have gas happy Martians tooling around in their SUV's, we need to consider that there might be another cause for the warm up. One has been suggsted. The sun is getting hotter. It seems to go through cycles in which its heat is greater or lesser. Back in 1400 we started a mini ice age that lasted until the mid 1800's. During that time we had years without an appreciable summer. One was actually called such. Now it's getting hotter for a while, but it won't last forever and things will cool down again. We live on a dynamic planet, one that is constantly changing, and we need to learn to go with the flow of change.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you wish to talk to a friend, the polite thing is to use a PM. Otherwise anyone will read it and comment.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Anne and I are friends and understand each other. I was talking to her not you so you can let it drop. We are all good. No worries.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

In John chapter 3 Jesus says that you must be born again to enter the Kingdom of God. I am sorry that you think differently but there is only one way to be saved and that is your acceptance and belief in Christ, his death and resurrection and your repentance of your sins from your heart. As a believer I am not trying to preach to you or am I arrogant as you say we are. But we care about you and your eternal home. But if you don't want to listen and still choose your own way then so be it. You have heard the truth here today. You will be without excuse when you stand before God.

Goodness, Ruthann, do you rack up "preaching points??" Enough already.

Karen N.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree with maysmom.



maysmom said:


> Perhaps we should all preach our beliefs in religion and politics. No more attempting to talk with the other side. Thoughts, please.
> 
> No preaching, please--one "official" sermon a week is plenty--
> 
> ...


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Did everyone know that it's Damemary's Birthday today? I have already told her but didn't know if everyone knew. Happy Birthday!!!!


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## ruthann1942 (Jan 24, 2013)

damemary said:


> I know you believe sincerely in your church's teachings, but not everyone does. Please don't take it upon yourself to judge others. If you do judge others someone will stomp on you with cowboy boots.


I am not judging you. Its not my place to do that. Why do you respond thinking I am judging you. Its the word of God that judges you. And, by the way, the Muslim, Jehovah's Witness' , Shinto & Budist religions are not Christian religions. Their beliefs are not in line with the Bible which is God's word to us.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I guess we tree-huggers can start making ice cube trays for the starving polar bears. I hear Mars is nice.



marykelly said:


> lMind if I change the subject back to global warming and suggest an answer to this? The ice caps are melting -- on Mars. So, unless we have gas happy Martians tooling around in their SUV's, we need to consider that there might be another cause for the warm up. One has been suggsted. The sun is getting hotter. It seems to go through cycles in which its heat is greater or lesser. Back in 1400 we started a mini ice age that lasted until the mid 1800's. During that time we had years without an appreciable summer. One was actually called such. Now it's getting hotter for a while, but it won't last forever and things will cool down again. We live on a dynamic planet, one that is constantly changing, and we need to learn to go with the flow of change.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Thanks Suzi I will remember that. Is Suzi gone to bed? Good night Suzi. Sleep tight.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

By the way, there are more polar bears now than there were 10 years ago. They swim in the water and eat fish and other sea mammals. They live on the many islands in the sea, not on the ice. And while a few might be starving, I think we don't need to worry too much about the rest. They're beautiful animals aren't they? Smart too!

And I'd rather hug a tree and enjoy its shade than anything else you might do with it.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sycophants= Menatlly ill elephants? Just a joke folks. I wasn't doing anything to insult the elephants.


Maybe you meant "psychophants," lol.

Karen N.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

marykelly said:


> I would hate to wish that on anyone. I think too much has been made of an off hand remark. I have four children, the last two unplanned, but ardently wanted by the time they arrived. I feel for a woman carrying a child she does not want, but I would suggest she put it up for adoption rather than abort it. There are many couples that can't have children that want them desperately.


Amen and that was my point.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> No, not shameful. Just a fine old tradition.


According to you side I didn't think there was any such thing.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, maybe you won't become a GM for the first time. Maybe there'll be a miscarriage or the parents-to-be secretly believe abortion would be the best choice this time around. It would really balance that "chosen one, aborted one" remark you made to BrattyPatty. Sometimes God likes to balance things and we never know where or when or how he'll do it.


We are praying that there is no miscarriage.

I know there will be no aborted one. My sons know better than to chose a person that would do such a thing.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thumper you owe an apology for your comment about grandchildren to grandmother. It was inappropriate and you know it. If you don't think so, please explain. Thank you.


You're right it was ugly. However, it did get my point across.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, Country Bumkin.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are missing the point of my comment. Not all religions are Christian. Not everyone believes as you do. Not everyone wants to hear your homilies. Do you want someone to quote the Koran or Book of Mormon to you?



ruthann1942 said:


> I am not judging you. Its not my place to do that. Why do you respond thinking I am judging you. Its the word of God that judges you. And, by the way, the Muslim, Jehovah's Witness' , Shinto & Budist religions are not Christian religions. Their beliefs are not in line with the Bible which is God's word to us.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Okay, but if you neglect to apologize for it, you open others to the same tactics. Do you really want to go there?



thumper5316 said:


> You're right it was ugly. However, it did get my point across.


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## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Maybe you meant "psychophants," lol.
> 
> Karen N.


HAHAHA!! That was a good one! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

ruthann1942 said:


> I am not judging you. Its not my place to do that. Why do you respond thinking I am judging you. Its the word of God that judges you. And, by the way, the Muslim, Jehovah's Witness' , Shinto & Budist religions are not Christian religions. Their beliefs are not in line with the Bible which is God's word to us.


I am sure those non Christian religions would disagree with you. they believe every bit as strongly as you do that their religion is the "right" religion. I am still resenting that you feel the need to make your religion more "right" than anyone else's religion. why do you feel the need to expound on your religious beliefs on this site? Why not go to a site that believes the way you do? 
I really find bible beaters offensive and way too self righteous for me. Please no more bible quotes and invoking the name of your G-d. why do you say the things you do, unless you are proselytizing? I realize that we have free speech, but do you have to beat someone over the head with your beliefs?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> You're right it was ugly. However, it did get my point across.


What was your point? being ugly............you succeeded.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

To revisit a popular discussion here let me day that there have been many fruitless arguments about whether the First Amendment gives us freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. We know that the text of the First Amendment only specifies that we have freedom of religion. However, many who participate in this topic have tried to say that the First Amendment gives us freedom FROM religion. 

The Frst Amendment is not the place to solve this argument. However, the Constitution gives us the choice of swearing an oath or making an affirmation. Freedom from religion comes from th fact that the Comstitution allows us to either swear an oath or make an affirmation.

Some Christians prefer to say I affirm rather than I swear because of a section in the Book of Matthew, in which Christ is said to have specifically advised His followers against swearing. Quakers, Mennonites, and members of some other Christian sects choose to not to swear because they believe firmly in telling the truth at all times, and feel that swearing to tell the truth goes against their religious values because it suggests that they might lie at other times.

Even the President of the United States has the option to swear or confirm:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office ofPresident of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve,protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

I have been making affirmations when swearing an oath is an issue and have always found it to be accepted without question. I do this directly as a result of being familiar with what the Book of Matthew says about Christ's specific advice to his followers against swearing oaths. I imagine that many of you who have identified yourselves as Christians do the same thing.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I am sure those non Christian religions would disagree with you. they believe every bit as strongly as you do that their religion is the "right" religion. I am still resenting that you feel the need to make your religion more "right" than anyone else's religion. why do you feel the need to expound on your religious beliefs on this site? Why not go to a site that believes the way you do?
> I really find bible beaters offensive and way too self righteous for me.


I too find Bible thumpers a pesky nuisance. Folks in the thread have acknowledged that the political debates are a waste of time as no one is going to change their minds about who they choose to support. Christian proselytizing is an equally useless endeavor for the same reasons, and frankly it's ten times as boring. There are no figures to quote, no authorities to site--religion is based on faith alone and you either believe or you don't. Any serious discussions about it inevitably lead to a dead end.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Okay, but if you neglect to apologize for it, you open others to the same tactics. Do you really want to go there?


I am beginning to feel you are threatening myself and my friends, which if the Administration is consistent, you should be reprimanded like Yarnie was. You use the phrases tactics, and that to me implies retaliation. You told me to shove it, which in my opinion is threatening.

Why must you always attack and threaten people?


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

damemary, why are you so angry at people who are simply expressing their opinions? You are free to disagree. But I think you would receive a better hearing if you expressed your own opinions in a calm rational manner rather than being in attack mode all the time. I'd like to know what you really believe.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I am sure those non Christian religions would disagree with you. they believe every bit as strongly as you do that their religion is the "right" religion. I am still resenting that you feel the need to make your religion more "right" than anyone else's religion. why do you feel the need to expound on your religious beliefs on this site? Why not go to a site that believes the way you do?
> I really find bible beaters offensive and way too self righteous for me. Please no more bible quotes and invoking the name of your G-d. why do you say the things you do, unless you are proselytizing? I realize that we have free speech, but do you have to beat someone over the head with your beliefs?


Rocky, she didn't say the other religions weren't right. She said they didn't go along with the Bible. 
People are always talking on here about their right to express their opinions. That's all Ruthann's doing. Her posts aren't vicious like some of the political ones. Maybe you just shouldn't read her posts, as we've all been advised regarding political and other controversial posts. ?


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> To revisit a popular discussion here let me day that there have been many fruitless arguments about whether the First Amendment gives us freedom from religion as well as freedom of religion. We know that the text of the First Amendment only specifies that we have freedom of religion. However, many who participate in this topic have tried to say that the First Amendment gives us freedom FROM religion.
> 
> The Frst Amendment is not the place to solve this argument. However, the Constitution gives us the choice of swearing an oath or making an affirmation. Freedom from religion comes from th fact that the Comstitution allows us to either swear an oath or make an affirmation.
> 
> ...


Very interesting take on this. I didn't know the Bible said something against swearing oaths. Does it mean don't use the words "so help me God?" Is that considered taking the Lord's name in vain if a person is swearing about secular things?

I just found this on DRBrg - it's a website that gives commentary on the Douay-Rheims Bible (Catholic version), and it says -

The verse:
[34] But I say to you not to swear at all, neither by heaven, for it is the throne of God: [35] Nor by the earth, for it is his footstool: nor by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great king:

The commentary:
[34] Not to swear at all: It is not forbid to swear in truth, justice and judgment; to the honour of God, or our own or neighbour's just defence: but only to swear rashly, or profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity.

I'm going to check further. I seem to remember reading this recently - because I gave up bad language ("swearing rashly, profanely, in common discourse, and without necessity" for Lent due to reading it.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

Just wanted to drop by for a second to let folks know that I have just witnessed the Holy Spirit at work and what a beautiful thing it is. Anyone here who wants to let go of their meanness and hate only has to turn to Him and they will never be sorry!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

katlapp said:


> Just wanted to drop by for a second to let folks know that I have just witnessed the Holy Spirit at work and what a beautiful thing it is. Anyone here who wants to let go of their meanness and hate only has to turn to Him and they will never be sorry!


So what did you witness?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Andrea your doggies are so cute. I love terriers. My favorte dogs. We have 2 Airedales and one wire hair. I probably told you that before.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

katlapp said:


> Just wanted to drop by for a second to let folks know that I have just witnessed the Holy Spirit at work and what a beautiful thing it is. Anyone here who wants to let go of their meanness and hate only has to turn to Him and they will never be sorry!


Just thought I would warn you, beware of people wanting to know anything about your experience with the Holy Spirit. There are those of us that would love to know, but in my humble opinion, Alcameron would not.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

To SeattleSoul,



bonbf3 said:


> Very interesting take on this. I didn't know the Bible said something against swearing oaths. Does it mean don't use the words "so help me God?" Is that considered taking the Lord's name in vain if a person is swearing about secular things?
> 
> I just found this on DRBrg - it's a website that gives commentary on the Douay-Rheims Bible (Catholic version), and it says -
> 
> ...


**********************
I looked further and found this from the Catechism. It addresses swearing in its many forms:

See Second Commandment in Catechism of Catholic Church.

Briefly summarized 
Quote:
2160 "O Lord, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth" (Ps 8:1)! 
2161 The second commandment enjoins respect for the Lord's name. The name of the Lord is holy. 
2162 The second commandment forbids every improper use of God's name. Blasphemy is the use of the name of God, of Jesus Christ, of the Virgin Mary, and of the saints in an offensive way. 
2163 False oaths call on God to be witness to a lie. Perjury is a grave offence against the Lord who is always faithful to his promises. 
2164 "Do not swear whether by the Creator, or any creature, except truthfully, of necessity, and with reverence" (St. Ignatius of Loyola, Spiritual Exercises, 38). 
2165 In Baptism, the Christian receives his name in the Church. Parents, godparents, and the pastor are to see that he be given a Christian name. The patron saint provides a model of charity and the assurance of his prayer. 
2166 The Christian begins his prayers and activities with the Sign of the Cross: "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen." 
2167 God calls each one by name (cf. Isa 43:1).


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

katlapp said:


> Just wanted to drop by for a second to let folks know that I have just witnessed the Holy Spirit at work and what a beautiful thing it is. Anyone here who wants to let go of their meanness and hate only has to turn to Him and they will never be sorry!


Thank you!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Andrea your doggies are so cute. I love terriers. My favorte dogs. We have 2 Airedales and one wire hair. I probably told you that before.


I love Airedales, too. Lucy is our 3rd Westie and Hiro is an adopted mix. actually, Lucy is adopted, too. The previous owner didn't want to deal with her because she has IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) but it's well-controlled with meds if needed. Lucy is the sweetest dog and is as playful as a puppy. Hiro is sweet, too, but has some bad habits.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Just thought I would warn you, beware of people wanting to know anything about your experience with the Holy Spirit. There are those of us that would love to know, but in my humble opinion, Alcameron would not.


Please don't speak for me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I think people are getting mixed up with swearing as in cursing and swearing as in taking an oath.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I love Airedales, too. Lucy is our 3rd Westie and Hiro is an adopted mix. actually, Lucy is adopted, too. The previous owner didn't want to deal with her because she has IBS (Irritable Bowel Syndrome) but it's well-controlled with meds if needed. Lucy is the sweetest dog and is as playful as a puppy. Hiro is sweet, too, but has some bad habits.


My wire hair gets an upset stomach from eating dead things.When he gets diarrea I feed him plain yogurt. It only takes a day for him to get straightened out. Mitch is 13 and still acts like a teenager. lol He is a mess. Spoiled rotten. He is my inside dog but he loves it outside . He loves to swim in our pool so he is part fish or something. Runs in and out just like a kid. Some of our Airedale have been adopted. One was beaten. She was so protective of us. She would try to help my husband out of his wheel chair into the porch swing. Miss her. I think she thought he was her baby.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think people are getting mixed up with swearing as in cursing and swearing as in taking an oath.


I think you're right.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

See y'all later. Outside is calling my name. Play sweet.XXX


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think people are getting mixed up with swearing as in cursing and swearing as in taking an oath.


They are both involved. Originally a person called down a curse upon himself if he violated his oath or promise. Nowadays, we have profanity and vulgarity (use of excremental or sexual terms).
Profanity is the failed attempt of a weak mind to express strong emotion. I used to tell my students to write what they meant and avoid the empty words.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> My wire hair gets an upset stomach from eating dead things.When he gets diarrea I feed him plain yogurt. It only takes a day for him to get straightened out. Mitch is 13 and still acts like a teenager. lol He is a mess. Spoiled rotten. He is my inside dog but he loves it outside . He loves to swim in our pool so he is part fish or something. Runs in and out just like a kid. Some of our Airedale have been adopted. One was beaten. She was so protective of us. She would try to help my husband out of his wheel chair into the porch swing. Miss her. I think she thought he was her baby.


I love hearing people talk about their pets. I don't have any right now - would love to, but my "daddy" (husband) really doesn't want one again. So I like to read what you all say.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> I am beginning to feel you are threatening myself and my friends, which if the Administration is consistent, you should be reprimanded like Yarnie was. You use the phrases tactics, and that to me implies retaliation. You told me to shove it, which in my opinion is threatening.
> 
> Why must you always attack and threaten people?


Oh please.... Actually telling you to shove it is not a threat. She's asking you to do something to yourself. 
The Yarnie thing is no longer defendable. Her words were written in plain English on this site and then on another site according to many here. It's OLD news.
You must be craving attention to keep stirring the pot in here.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Please don't speak for me.


Didn't, voiced an opinion based on your past posts, nastiness and general observations


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh please.... Actually telling you to shove it is not a threat. She's asking you to do something to yourself.
> The Yarnie thing is no longer defendable. Her words were written in plain English on this site and then on another site according to many here. It's OLD news.
> You must be craving attention to keep stirring the pot in here.


NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

Yes. Could we get back to the original topics like gun control and Obamacare and stop harping on personalities?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Bonbf3, my old Protestant NRSV Bible says, in Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King, and do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let your word be 'Yes, Yes", or 'No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one." Of course, no commentary even though the preceding and succeeding verses have some commentary. Checked out the verses on DRBrg, and they are very similar. I think what some sects of Protestants take most seriously is "Let your word be 'Yes, Yes', or 'No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one.", and take that to mean that no swearing by any authority but one's own truthfulness, as, because they are Christians they are truthful, much as in the way we say someone is as good as his word.

I've never heard this use of the word swearing in this case to mean cursing, using profanity or vulgar language. Gotta go and run errands. More later maybe?


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

In the UK, we generally say swear instead of curse. A curse is something you wish on someone.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


No, wrong again, off2knit. I post in here because I like to discuss issues with the other women in here. 
Congratuations Sherlock Holmes on finding my old user name. Afterall it was posted out in the open that I was changing it. :mrgreen:
And as usual you are wrong again! "Lilly" did not post the "keeping the door open for such tactics" comment. If you are going to point fingers, at least get the name of the posters right.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> I'd watch my back if I were you. The number of good Christians here may not be as great as you think. Rudeness is just the start with the good Christian ladies. If you say one word they don't agree with, they'll attack you just like they have many others who participate in this topic.


I think she already learned that lesson from how your friends jumped down her throat after her first few posts.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh please.... Actually telling you to shove it is not a threat. She's asking you to do something to yourself.
> The Yarnie thing is no longer defendable. Her words were written in plain English on this site and then on another site according to many here. It's OLD news.
> You must be craving attention to keep stirring the pot in here.


Bratty, shove it is actually very nasty, off-color, and insulting. Do you talk that way? And now you're defending it. Why would people write something that they wouldn't say? I don't know who said that to Off2Knits, but I think it's obnoxious, and I'll bet a lot of others do, too. Good grief, girl - have a little decorum on here. Shove it? Really!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


 If you look at the big picture, meaning people's posts in general, you get an idea of whose nice and who's just not. Yarnie is very nice. That's why people who know her understood. And that's why people who don't should give her the benefit of the doubt.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bonbf3, my old Protestant NRSV Bible says, in Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King, and do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. Let your word be 'Yes, Yes", or 'No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one." Of course, no commentary even though the preceding and succeeding verses have some commentary. Checked out the verses on DRBrg, and they are very similar. I think what some sects of Protestants take most seriously is "Let your word be 'Yes, Yes', or 'No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one.", and take that to mean that no swearing by any authority but one's own truthfulness, as, because they are Christians they are truthful, much as in the way we say someone is as good as his word.
> 
> I've never heard this use of the word swearing in this case to mean cursing, using profanity or vulgar language. Gotta go and run errands. More later maybe?


Yes - that's what I took from it, too.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

momeee said:


> Thank you for taking the time to post this important information. O has made it his mission to weaken our military, which is why he had so little of their support in the past election. Makes me wonder if he isn't employing a little payback????


Sequestration is doing its damage to our military, but I see that Egypt is still getting the promised aircraft and tanks. How does this happen? We cut spending to our military but supply equipment to a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood? Mind boggling.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, wrong again, off2knit. I post in here because I like to discuss issues with the other women in here.
> Congratuations Sherlock Holmes on finding my old user name. Afterall it was posted out in the open that I was changing it. :mrgreen:
> And as usual you are wrong again! "Lilly" did not post the "keeping the door open for such tactics" comment. If you are going to point fingers, at least get the name of the posters right.


Sheesh! Grumpy!


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Didn't, voiced an opinion based on your past posts, nastiness and general observations


Bratty Patty thinks it's okay to tell someone to shove it, but is highly offended by Yarnlady's comments? Talk about a double standard. Makes me want to cuss.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Sequestration is doing its damage to our military, but I see that Egypt is still getting the promised aircraft and tanks. How does this happen? We cut spending to our military but supply equipment to a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood? Mind boggling.


I would say so. Doesn't he know who our enemies really are?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Heard this morning china is NOT happy with Little Kim.


That's because China does not like that we are moving equipment into the area and Japan has also started taking necessary precautions as well. This, in an of itself, will cause China to do something.


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## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

I go on other topics, and some of the people on her are never on any other topic. Do you just come on here to rant and rave and tell people their religious beliefs are like believing in Santa Clause and to shove it? 

Why not find a more productive way to get rid of all that rage you're carrying around? Take a fast walk around the block, beat a pillow, scream at the mirror, consult a shrink or clergy - but why come on here to insult people who are interested in friendly discussion?

I said before I just don't hang around with people like that in real life, and I'm not going to do it here. Only this time I mean it. I will miss some of you, but I'll have to get over it. This is not good mental health.

I've been pretty darn nice on here, but I'm telling you that I'm just fed up and losing any wish to communicate with such rude people who seem to actually delight in hurting the feelings of others. 

Some of you are angry and mean. If that's what it takes to keep you sweet in your real life, you need some anger management training. There is really no excuse for what goes on here, and administration should just shut this mess down. I'm disappointed in myself for being a party to this for so long. This is despicable - this is trampling on people - this is really not acceptable, well-adjusted adult behavior. Contemptible. 

For you nice folks who really want to have friendly discourse, try opening another topic. Get out of this horror show. This is toxic.


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## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

It's the North Korean people I worry about. I have friends in that region, and they tell me most of the people are starving because all of the food and money goes to sustain the military. What's wrong with these leaders that they will do that to their own people?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


off2knit - You should learn to read a little better before you quote anyone as having said something. You don't even know who you are quoting most of the time. You must be the one looking for attention by coming on this thread. You are a mean spirited bore and I certainly know good Catholics who truly practice the religion don't resemble you in the least. Who are you! I wouldn't venture on to your site ever. Only nice person I have seen out there is CB and I'm sure where ever she posts people are happy to see her even if they don't agree with her. She is a ray of sunshine and I don't think she has a mean bone in her body. If anyone seems to be a truly kind and decent person it is her. Maybe the rest of you could take a couple lessons from her. She does practice good Christian principals and really does follow the principals Jesus taught. Get a clue. lady.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> But she will crawl back out. And I will be waiting.


So you can show what a truly kind, caring person you really are? GAG! You have already shown us your real side in many, many posts and past threads. Give it a rest.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Bratty Patty thinks it's okay to tell someone to shove it, but is highly offended by Yarnlady's comments? Talk about a double standard. Makes me want to cuss.


Sounds like all of us have learned a thing or two from the Master (Yarnie)--I believe she told Al to shove the cookies she was offering "where the sun doesn't shine."

I am sick to death of going over the Yarnie incident again and again, but frankly her lack of remorse seems truly incomprehensible to me. She reappeared once to try to explain her actions, but her explanation annoyed me almost as much as the original incident. She herself claims that Al's remark about Ingried being "omnipresent and omnipotent" set her off, and I stoked the flames still higher by taunting Janeway about her oxygen.

Honestly--talk about trying to shift the blame off one's shoulders! Neither comment was addressed to Yarnie, I find nothing particularly offensive about what Al said, and my remark about cracking the seal on the O2 can was simply because the Demos were joking about their heads spinning as a raging tornado sucked all the oxygen out of the air.

Yarnie lost her cool and said things she simply should not have. I've apologized many times for exactly that same thing, as have others--it's not a big deal.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> In the UK, we generally say swear instead of curse. A curse is something you wish on someone.


I use swear too Anne for using vulgar language. I think of a curse as something horrible that is wished upon someone by a witch or a very evil person.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

katlapp said:


> What is wrong with you ladies? We are Christians but Ive never heard people talking like this in my life. Please look at Country Bumkins link, Jesus loves all of you no matter what.


They go on and on about how kind they are and the "other side" is the reason for all the negativity. This was perfectly displayed in their "greeting" to you. Now they are all in a tizzy about some less than stellar comment and have gone on and on and on about it.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, wrong again, off2knit. I post in here because I like to discuss issues with the other women in here.
> Congratuations Sherlock Holmes on finding my old user name. Afterall it was posted out in the open that I was changing it. :mrgreen:
> And as usual you are wrong again! "Lilly" did not post the "keeping the door open for such tactics" comment. If you are going to point fingers, at least get the name of the posters right.


Hey in baseball I would be batting 500.

Snap, snarky again


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Bratty Patty thinks it's okay to tell someone to shove it, but is highly offended by Yarnlady's comments? Talk about a double standard. Makes me want to cuss.


Bonnie why do you come to this thread if not to cause trouble. It would be different if you came here with good intentions but I have never seen you say anything positive. Are you just another attention seeker like the others you pal around with. Perhaps you and the others would be better served by going back to whence you came and play around with your necklaces and mommie's high heeled shoes. Come back when you decide to interact as mature adults otherwise you are just wasting time. :-(


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Bratty Patty thinks it's okay to tell someone to shove it, but is highly offended by Yarnlady's comments? Talk about a double standard. Makes me want to cuss.


Bonnie why do you come to this thread if not to cause trouble. It would be different if you came here with good intentions but I have never seen you say anything positive. Are you just another attention seeker like the others you pal around with. Perhaps you and the others would be better served by going back to whence you came and play around with your necklaces and mommie's high heeled shoes. Come back when you decide to interact as mature adults otherwise you are just wasting time. :-(


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> off2knit - You should learn to read a little better before you quote anyone as having said something. You don't even know who you are quoting most of the time. You must be the one looking for attention by coming on this thread. You are a mean spirited bore and I certainly know good Catholics who truly practice the religion don't resemble you in the least. Who are you! I wouldn't venture on to your site ever. Only nice person I have seen out there is CB and I'm sure where ever she posts people are happy to see her even if they don't agree with her. She is a ray of sunshine and I don't think she has a mean bone in her body. If anyone seems to be a truly kind and decent person it is her. Maybe the rest of you could take a couple lessons from her. She does practice good Christian principals and really does follow the principals Jesus taught. Get a clue. lady.


Snap again, wow what bee got in your bonnet? Again with the name calling, that is so childish in my opinion. What site are you referring to? I have never mentioned another site, except to say someone told me of one that SS attacked Yarnie on. I checked out that web site and plan to use it to to find patterns. Care to prove me wrong.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


No, wrong again, off2knit. I post in here because I like to discuss issues with the other women in here. 
Congratuations Sherlock Holmes on finding my old user name. Afterall it was posted out in the open that I was changing it. 
And as usual you are wrong again! "Lilly" did not post the "keeping the door open for such tactics" comment. If you are going to point fingers, at least get the name of the posters right.

Have a sparkling day!

Thank you, Patty. The little Prada/Pearl girls only come over to be naughty. I must admit if I had to live on that thread I would be bored to tears. CB is the only one I would ever want to have anything to do with. So sad naughty girls you really are starved for attention aren't you. Ta ta!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit wrote:
NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


No, wrong again, off2knit. I post in here because I like to discuss issues with the other women in here. 
Congratuations Sherlock Holmes on finding my old user name. Afterall it was posted out in the open that I was changing it. 
And as usual you are wrong again! "Lilly" did not post the "keeping the door open for such tactics" comment. If you are going to point fingers, at least get the name of the posters right.

Have a sparkling day!

Thank you, Patty. The little Prada/Pearl girls only come over to be naughty. I must admit if I had to live on that thread I would be bored to tears. CB is the only one I would ever want to have anything to do with. So sad naughty girls you really are starved for attention aren't you. Ta ta!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hey in baseball I would be batting 500.
> 
> Snap, snarky again


And by that comment I can see that you are here strictly to try and get under the skin of those you may not like. Some people would call it 'shadowing".


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

John Kerry has landed in Seoul. Let's hope he gets out of there before little Kim gets trigger happy. I am really interested in the outcome of the China talks.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SeattleSoul said:


> Thumper, maybe you won't become a GM for the first time. Maybe there'll be a miscarriage or the parents-to-be secretly believe abortion would be the best choice this time around. It would really balance that "chosen one, aborted one" remark you made to BrattyPatty. Sometimes God likes to balance things and we never know where or when or how he'll do it.


To quote damemary, "give it up".


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Bonnie,
Although "shove it" is not a polite term, it isn't a threat.
I may just be a little grumpy today. I am tired of all the BS.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thumper you owe an apology for your comment about grandchildren to grandmother. It was inappropriate and you know it. If you don't think so, please explain. Thank you.


to quote you to you, "give it a rest".


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Snap again, wow what bee got in your bonnet? Again with the name calling, that is so childish in my opinion. What site are you referring to? I have never mentioned another site, except to say someone told me of one that SS attacked Yarnie on. I checked out that web site and plan to use it to to find patterns. Care to prove me wrong.


Oh please. You and some of the other rightist claim to be super sleuths, but I truly I don't believe you could find the nose on your own face.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bratty, shove it is actually very nasty, off-color, and insulting. Do you talk that way? And now you're defending it. Why would people write something that they wouldn't say? I don't know who said that to Off2Knits, but I think it's obnoxious, and I'll bet a lot of others do, too. Good grief, girl - have a little decorum on here. Shove it? Really!

bonbf3

Bonnie why don't you and your buddies go home and play. How pathetic you all are coming here. You surely know you have no interest in having any civil interaction here. I find you all to be pathetic, sad and most of all boring. You have only one note you sing and no new positive tunes. If all you want to do is come where you know you are not wanted any longer you are truly a sad lot. I gave up that kind of behavior when I was 4 or 5. Please grow up and get a clue. If you can act like women and be nice come back. You only make yourselves look foolish now. We don't want what you are selling, ladies.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And by that comment I can see that you are here strictly to try and get under the skin of those you may not like. Some people would call it 'shadowing".


What? I have not posted about this group anywhere. So some people would call your comment insulting and bordering on slander.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

marykelly said:


> lMind if I change the subject back to global warming and suggest an answer to this? The ice caps are melting -- on Mars. So, unless we have gas happy Martians tooling around in their SUV's, we need to consider that there might be another cause for the warm up. One has been suggsted. The sun is getting hotter. It seems to go through cycles in which its heat is greater or lesser. Back in 1400 we started a mini ice age that lasted until the mid 1800's. During that time we had years without an appreciable summer. One was actually called such. Now it's getting hotter for a while, but it won't last forever and things will cool down again. We live on a dynamic planet, one that is constantly changing, and we need to learn to go with the flow of change.


That's what I make of global warming. It is weather cycles/patterns that cause it. We will have periods of drought, high temperatures and low temperatures over and over again. Mother Nature at her finest.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bratty, shove it is actually very nasty, off-color, and insulting. Do you talk that way? And now you're defending it. Why would people write something that they wouldn't say? I don't know who said that to Off2Knits, but I think it's obnoxious, and I'll bet a lot of others do, too. Good grief, girl - have a little decorum on here. Shove it? Really!
> 
> bonbf3
> 
> Bonnie why don't you and your buddies go home and play. How pathetic you all are coming here. You surely know you have no interest in having any civil interaction here. I find you all to be pathetic, sad and most of all boring. You have only one note you sing and no new positive tunes. If all you want to do is come where you know you are not wanted any longer you are truly a sad lot. I gave up that kind of behavior when I was 4 or 5. Please grow up and get a clue. If you can act like women and be nice come back. You only make yourselves look foolish now. We don't want what you are selling, ladies.


We don't want what you are selling...................

Who is we?

Who said you own this thread?

Talk about arrogant bullying tactics.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> John Kerry has landed in Seoul. Let's hope he gets out of there before little Kim gets trigger happy. I am really interested in the outcome of the China talks.


Patty have you heard NK said their first target would be Tokyo. It was announced by the U.S. this morning that NK does have nuclear weapons. I think talks with China may involve who would counter attack, U.S. or China. When Kerry got off the plane he said NK would not be allowed to have these weapons. Pretty serious stuff.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> That's because China does not like that we are moving equipment into the area and Japan has also started taking necessary precautions as well. This, in an of itself, will cause China to do something.


Actually, the news broadcast that China was being very quiet about our ships in the ocean. They don't want any brou ha on their back steps.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What? I have not posted about this group anywhere. So some people would call your comment insulting and bordering on slander.


Really? You have posted in the Smoking and Obamacare several times whether it be a new number on the end or not.
BTW you are at 3 strikes, not batting 500. The old name was Northwoods Gal not Girl. "lilly did not post the comment you cited, and you have posted before in this thread.
Stop your nonsense and go do something constructive.
Ravelry has been around for a long time. I am also a member there as many of the women who belong to KP


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

marykelly said:


> I would say so. Doesn't he know who our enemies really are?


Who is the he you are talking about, Mary? If you are speaking of Obama you should realize he has many military people who tell him what is going on in all these countries. Do you really think the President makes such decisions without advice? The military tells him what they need to do their job. In spite of the sequester I am sure we have everything more than secured in and around North Korea. There is no way our government will leave us undefended. Of course the government isn't going to come out and tell us or the media all that is going on behind the scenes. We can't let our enemies know what we are doing. The major powers are watching each other with satellites 24/7 and can see very clearly what enemies are up to so what we can keep secret we do. Good point that you brought up.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

marykelly said:


> I would say so. Doesn't he know who our enemies really are?


I don't think he does. I think the administration was taken off guard when Egypt's leaders showed they are part of the Brotherhood. It's also the problem with Libya and the rebels. The administration just does not know who is who and therefore the weapons we give the "rebels" turn up in the hand of Al quaeda (sp) and other terrorist groups.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Actually, the news broadcast that China was being very quiet about our ships in the ocean. They don't want any brou ha on their back steps.


Can't say that I blame them. But if it was me, I would feel a bit safer knowing that the US Navy was there just in case.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can't say that I blame them. War ships are an ominous sight. But if it was me, I would feel a bit safer knowing that the US Navy was there just in case.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

off2knit said:


> We don't want what you are selling...................
> 
> Who is we?
> 
> ...


You and your playmates OFF2KNIT. Do I have to draw you a picture. I don't want to play your games. Go back to your little la la land. As I said, get a clue. :thumbdown:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I don't think he does. I think the administration was taken off guard when Egypt's leaders showed they are part of the Brotherhood. It's also the problem with Libya and the rebels. The administration just does not know who is who and therefore the weapons we give the "rebels" turn up in the hand of Al quaeda (sp) and other terrorist groups.


It's not just the administration who decides who gets what weapons. The DOD, State Dept, & Pentagon know what they are doing and bring it to POTUS so he may act on it.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Stop your nonsense and go do something constructive.
Ravelry has been around for a long time. I am also a member there as many of the women who belong to KP[/quote]

So what? Need to post nonsense to fulfill your need to be heard.

Please take your own advice, you in my opinion are not being constructive here but destructive, so maybe Ravelry is more your speed. But maybe you are just a small fish in a big pond at Ravelry, and you can only pretend to be a big fish here. You do not own this thread, so stop trying to get people leave


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Still can't admit that you are wrong, so spin and twist away.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

marykelly said:


> It's the North Korean people I worry about. I have friends in that region, and they tell me most of the people are starving because all of the food and money goes to sustain the military. What's wrong with these leaders that they will do that to their own people?


I think they have the belief that their people are expendable. They are enlisted to do a job, such as build up the military, build roads to move the military, etc., and when the job is finished so is the need for the person. It's very sad.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Do you really think the President makes such decisions without advice? The military tells him what they need to do their job.


Oh, so he's finally showing up for the briefings?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I think they have the belief that their people are expendable. They are enlisted to do a job, such as build up the military, build roads to move the military, etc., and when the job is finished so is the need for the person. It's very sad.


I agree with you, soloweygirl. The news reels that have been shown on CNN are showing desolate and desparate conditions.
One women who escaped to Seoul said that they were eating grass and leaves soup just to survive.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That's what I make of global warming. It is weather cycles/patterns that cause it. We will have periods of drought, high temperatures and low temperatures over and over again. Mother Nature at her finest.


Solowey - I agree the earth has gone through many changes over the thousands of years of it's existance. The big difference to me is that when these huge weather changes, land masses splitting happened there were hardly any humans here. Now that we populate so much of the globe when these big storms, global changes occur millions of us will be killed along with animals, plants and world landmasses will change. If life does survive we will be thrown back hundreds of years as far as human progress goes and I think we will have to begin again. We know many other situations had made great scientific discoveries and most of them were lost and humans began again. We may have to do that again. It is a terrifying thought. Personally, I don't believe it is the end of the world I am not worried about it as the Creator will take care of it. Hopefully, we don't all get hit by nuclear warheads because NK's leader can't contain himself.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Still can't admit that you are wrong, so spin and twist away.


Same to you, maybe you can have a nice time getting plied


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Actually, the news broadcast that China was being very quiet about our ships in the ocean. They don't want any brou ha on their back steps.


They have been quiet, but have been watching. They have also been watching Japan move their anti-missile equipment into position so Japan can defend themselves. They don't like it that countries all around the area are increasing measures of protection.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> They have been quiet, but have been watching. They have also been watching Japan move their anti-missile equipment into position so Japan can defend themselves. They don't like it that countries all around the area are increasing measures of protection.


I hope that China will increase their own measure of protection.
With this little man with the giant ego, anything can happen. If it is attention that he wants he is certainly getting it.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's not just the administration who decides who gets what weapons. The DOD, State Dept, & Pentagon know what they are doing and bring it to POTUS so he may act on it.


That's why all this good information has us giving weapons to the terrorists? Who knew? I guess that was why he campaigned on Bin Laden was dead and Al Queada was on the run. The latter was never true.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That's why all this good information has us giving weapons to the terrorists? Who knew? I guess that was why he campaigned on Bin Laden was dead and Al Queada was on the run. The latter was never true.


Unfortunately, there will always be terrorists. Al Qaeda was on the run at the time. Extremists hate us so much that new 'cells' are formed everyday. One leader is killed, another one takes over. It's sad to say, but they will always be here.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hope that China will increase their own measure of protection.
> With this little man with the giant ego, anything can happen. If it is attention that he wants he is certainly getting it.


I also heard on the radio that whenever NK did this in the past (when daddy did it) it was because he wanted something, usually food and supplies. Daddy just never let it go so far. This could be true as some believe that this type of behavior is the MO for NK.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I don't think he does. I think the administration was taken off guard when Egypt's leaders showed they are part of the Brotherhood. It's also the problem with Libya and the rebels. The administration just does not know who is who and therefore the weapons we give the "rebels" turn up in the hand of Al quaeda (sp) and other terrorist groups.


Solowey - I understand the concern with the Muslim Brotherhood, but it is very hard to know who is who and what side they are on in the Middle East. I know it is easy to blame President Obama for everything but he gets his information from the Military, CIA State Dept. etc. Personally I don't trust most of the countries in that area except Israel. I don't consider any of them friends just countries we make deals with to protect ourselves. Pakistan is terrible but out of necessity we do business with them. I wouldn't turn my back on them. They are tribal countries who have beliefs and loyalties to their own tribe and the government after that and some of them don't even recognize country boundaries but tribal territories as in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It is a part of the world that is always changing but hanging on to these ancient loyalties. I didn't realize how complex it was over there until Desert Storm when I tried to read everything I could about that part of the world as our son was over there and I was worried sick about his safety. No President runs the country alone. It is not his job and it would be impossible. I only would say it would be nice if the right would stop blaming everything on Obama. I can honestly say I was no fan of the second President Bush but I certainly didn't blame him every time something bad happened and I can also praise a President when they do something good. I will be the first to let President Obama know when I am not happy with him and I do so on a regular basis. He is not all bad and has done many positive things for all of us.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Another school shooting in New River Valley Community College Christianburg, VA. 2 women shot.
You are right. We do supply arms to terrorists right here at home.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> Actually, the news broadcast that China was being very quiet about our ships in the ocean. They don't want any brou ha on their back steps.


Who can blame them GW. I think Kim's dad was bad but he was smart enough to always keep an escape route open for himself and only go so far. I hope his son hasn't backed himself into a corner that he feels he can't get himself out of or that he needs to come out and launch something he can't stop.
The U.S. is also bringing food and medical supplies to help the people over there. What are horrible leader who lets his own do without.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Another school shooting in New River Valley Community College Christianburg, VA. 2 women shot.
> You are right. We do supply arms to terrorists right here at home.


Yes, we have our own home grown.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Another school shooting in New River Valley Community College Christianburg, VA. 2 women shot.
> You are right. We do supply arms to terrorists right here at home.


Yes, we have our own home grown.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, we have our own home grown.


Sorry for the heavy handed use of the keyboard. Lightly, lightly!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> Rocky, she didn't say the other religions weren't right. She said they didn't go along with the Bible.
> People are always talking on here about their right to express their opinions. That's all Ruthann's doing. Her posts aren't vicious like some of the political ones. Maybe you just shouldn't read her posts, as we've all been advised regarding political and other controversial posts. ?


My opinion is that the bible is a fairytale.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That's because China does not like that we are moving equipment into the area and Japan has also started taking necessary precautions as well. This, in an of itself, will cause China to do something.


No........China doesn't want him to do something really foolish, like losing a war with South Korea and losing the buffer zone of North Korea to South Korea and the USA. Do you realize how many North Koreans would flood into China? they would be inundated with Koreans.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> My opinion is that the bible is a fairytale.


The older I get the more inclined I am to agree. Jesse Ventura once called it the book for the weak minded. Jesse even insulted his own wife with that comment but he was a hell of a governor for MN. I voted for him myself as I wasn't crazy about any of the other candidates. To everyone's surprise, Jesse won. He is a very intelligent man and free thinker. Some think he is out on the fringe, but I think he uses that gift called a brain. To bad more people don't do the same. We would all be a lot better off than wandering around like sheep.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Unfortunately, there will always be terrorists. Al Qaeda was on the run at the time. Extremists hate us so much that new 'cells' are formed everyday. One leader is killed, another one takes over. It's sad to say, but they will always be here.


The one thing that Bush did in declaring war on Iraq,was he united the Muslim terrorists.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty wrote:
Unfortunately, there will always be terrorists. Al Qaeda was on the run at the time. Extremists hate us so much that new 'cells' are formed everyday. One leader is killed, another one takes over. It's sad to say, but they will always be here.


The one thing that Bush did in declaring war on Iraq,was he united the Muslim terrorists.

rocky1991

Bush certainly did have a knack for bringing people together, just not the right ones. That was a hornet's nest that should have been left alone. Then we have the Aryan Nations and its factions, and all the survivalists groups and the good old KKK. We have more than enough terrorists right inside our borders who want to fight their own jihad against our government. Sorry I went off a tangent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Conversion depends upon a person's wish to learn more, not being preached at. IMHO



susanmos2000 said:


> I too find Bible thumpers a pesky nuisance. Folks in the thread have acknowledged that the political debates are a waste of time as no one is going to change their minds about who they choose to support. Christian proselytizing is an equally useless endeavor for the same reasons, and frankly it's ten times as boring. There are no figures to quote, no authorities to site--religion is based on faith alone and you either believe or you don't. Any serious discussions about it inevitably lead to a dead end.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You may take my comments as you wish. It usually has nothing to do with my meaning.

The idea is I try again and again to make my point without being sarcastic. Everyone gets frustrated. What I'm asking is, "How would you feel if I responded in the same way you do?" I guess it's too difficult a point for good Christians.

You are really reaching for threats. I think you know that.



off2knit said:


> I am beginning to feel you are threatening myself and my friends, which if the Administration is consistent, you should be reprimanded like Yarnie was. You use the phrases tactics, and that to me implies retaliation. You told me to shove it, which in my opinion is threatening.
> 
> Why must you always attack and threaten people?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I get frustrated when people deliberately misunderstand the other side, and repeat their opinions (with no facts included)endlessly.

I have a calm and rational manner....especially comparing others.

I believe all people are created equal. I believe our rights stop when we cross other's rights. I believe in science and fact. I appreciate discussion of current events....or even the meaning of past events. My personal spiritual thoughts are my own.



marykelly said:


> damemary, why are you so angry at people who are simply expressing their opinions? You are free to disagree. But I think you would receive a better hearing if you expressed your own opinions in a calm rational manner rather than being in attack mode all the time. I'd like to know what you really believe.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Others take it as 'if it doesn't agree with my version of the Christian bible' it must be wrong.



bonbf3 said:


> Rocky, she didn't say the other religions weren't right. She said they didn't go along with the Bible.
> People are always talking on here about their right to express their opinions. That's all Ruthann's doing. Her posts aren't vicious like some of the political ones. Maybe you just shouldn't read her posts, as we've all been advised regarding political and other controversial posts. ?


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> BrattyPatty wrote:
> Unfortunately, there will always be terrorists. Al Qaeda was on the run at the time. Extremists hate us so much that new 'cells' are formed everyday. One leader is killed, another one takes over. It's sad to say, but they will always be here.
> 
> The one thing that Bush did in declaring war on Iraq,was he united the Muslim terrorists.
> ...


A most important tangent, though! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> You may take my comments as you wish. It usually has nothing to do with my meaning.
> 
> The idea is I try again and again to make my point without being sarcastic. Everyone gets frustrated. What I'm asking is, "How would you feel if I responded in the same way you do?" I guess it's too difficult a point for good Christians.
> 
> You are really reaching for threats. I think you know that.


Not reaching, your nasty comments are threatening. I will answer your question. I have not called you names, I do not threaten you, I do not get a group of people to gang up on an older woman with a severe medical condition. Since that is the case, I would have no problem with my answers. But your second to last comment proves my point, I believe it is snide and nasty. tsk tsk


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you always so sure you're right and everyone else is wrong?



off2knit said:


> Didn't, voiced an opinion based on your past posts, nastiness and general observations


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not interesting at all.



off2knit said:


> NWGirl, I do not need attention, but you must, since you continue to post. And yes, Yarnie is defendable, she was brutally and purposefully attacked. Kind of reminds me of what Lily said, about keeping the door open for such tactics. Humm interesting don't you think


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it would be more interesting around here if we paid more attention to topics and less attention to semantics.



bonbf3 said:


> Bratty, shove it is actually very nasty, off-color, and insulting. Do you talk that way? And now you're defending it. Why would people write something that they wouldn't say? I don't know who said that to Off2Knits, but I think it's obnoxious, and I'll bet a lot of others do, too. Good grief, girl - have a little decorum on here. Shove it? Really!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You can't expect people who don't know theyarnlady to assume good things of bad behavior. I think it best to not discuss the topic.



bonbf3 said:


> If you look at the big picture, meaning people's posts in general, you get an idea of whose nice and who's just not. Yarnie is very nice. That's why people who know her understood. And that's why people who don't should give her the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A conspiracy?



soloweygirl said:


> Sequestration is doing its damage to our military, but I see that Egypt is still getting the promised aircraft and tanks. How does this happen? We cut spending to our military but supply equipment to a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood? Mind boggling.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nor important! 
2 women were shot in a community college today, Little Kim is about to fire a missle, John Kerry is in Seoul, our troops in South Korea are at risk, parents of Newtown are being put down by Rush Limbaugh and the NRA.

What's next?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope, but she won't take your guff either.



bonbf3 said:


> Sheesh! Grumpy!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

bye



bonbf3 said:


> I go on other topics, and some of the people on her are never on any other topic. Do you just come on here to rant and rave and tell people their religious beliefs are like believing in Santa Clause and to shove it?
> 
> Why not find a more productive way to get rid of all that rage you're carrying around? Take a fast walk around the block, beat a pillow, scream at the mirror, consult a shrink or clergy - but why come on here to insult people who are interested in friendly discussion?
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie why do you come to this thread if not to cause trouble. It would be different if you came here with good intentions but I have never seen you say anything positive. Are you just another attention seeker like the others you pal around with. Perhaps you and the others would be better served by going back to whence you came and play around with your necklaces and mommie's high heeled shoes. Come back when you decide to interact as mature adults otherwise you are just wasting time. :-(


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She cannot come back after a tantrum and ignore it ever happened. If you allow this, you enable repeats. IMHO



soloweygirl said:


> to quote you to you, "give it a rest".


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

off2knit said:


> What? I have not posted about this group anywhere. So some people would call your comment insulting and bordering on slander.


And some would call your comments manipulative and delusional...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> That's what I make of global warming. It is weather cycles/patterns that cause it. We will have periods of drought, high temperatures and low temperatures over and over again. Mother Nature at her finest.


Not what the research shows.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I was listening to a member of the republican Party talking about global warming yesterday. His comments stunned me and I wasn't sure if he was joking or not.
He said that The rains that caused Noah to build his ark were not man made. Yes, he really said that. Doh!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was listening to a member of the republican Party talking about global warming yesterday. His comments stunned me and I wasn't sure if he was joking or not.
> He said that The rains that caused Noah to build his ark were not man made. Yes, he really said that. Doh!


And Noah had T Rexs on the ark and women's bodies can shut down if they are raped and not get pregnant, Blah blah blah and 
Doh! Where does it end? I don't know if I should laugh or cry
sometimes.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sequestration is doing its damage to our military, but I see that Egypt is still getting the promised aircraft and tanks. How does this happen? We cut spending to our military but supply equipment to a country run by the Muslim Brotherhood? Mind boggling.


Not really surprising... There was ample evidence of os leanings, loyalties, and associations prior to the first election, but many chose to deny or ignore it.


----------



## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And Noah had T Rexs on the ark and women's bodies can shut down if they are raped and not get pregnant, Blah blah blah and
> Doh! Where does it end? I don't know if I should laugh or cry
> sometimes.


You'd be better off to laugh, they are so brainwashed. I am not against anyone believing in a supreme deity. I have no problem discussing religion with open minded people. But when they start preaching, which to me sounds like proselytizing, I have no patience. I had neighbors, thought they were wonderful people. They were very helpful and caring, however I found out later that they were trying to "save" us by telling my 6 year old daughter that she would be going to hell because we were not born again Christians. It took two years in therapy to treat her for bad dreams, falling grades in school and other an sundry problems. My husband and I felt we were living with a child in need of an exorcist. They were only trying to save us, but what they did was a nightmare.
when people on this site express their "opinions" on religion, it tends to make me crazy. There are many religions in this world, and the arrogance of people who think theirs is the ONLY and they are RIGHT are arrogant.

Let me add: This is MY opinion.


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

bonbf3 said:


> I go on other topics, and some of the people on her are never on any other topic. Do you just come on here to rant and rave and tell people their religious beliefs are like believing in Santa Clause and to shove it?
> 
> Why not find a more productive way to get rid of all that rage you're carrying around? Take a fast walk around the block, beat a pillow, scream at the mirror, consult a shrink or clergy - but why come on here to insult people who are interested in friendly discussion?
> 
> ...


Nicely said. I share your feelings.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> And some would call your comments manipulative and delusional...


tsk tsk

nasty nasty nasty...........again


----------



## momeee (Mar 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I agree with you, soloweygirl. The news reels that have been shown on CNN are showing desolate and desparate conditions.
> One women who escaped to Seoul said that they were eating grass and leaves soup just to survive.


...and their fearless little leader sure doesn't look like he has misses a meal....or dessert.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

momeee said:


> ...and their fearless little leader sure doesn't look like he has misses a meal....or dessert.


True, I heard someone joking that North Korea doesn't need nukes--they can just roll Kim down a mountain and watch everything in his path get flattened.


----------



## medusa (Nov 20, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> You'd be better off to laugh, they are so brainwashed. I am not against anyone believing in a supreme deity. I have no problem discussing religion with open minded people. But when they start preaching, which to me sounds like proselytizing, I have no patience. I had neighbors, thought they were wonderful people. They were very helpful and caring, however I found out later that they were trying to "save" us by telling my 6 year old daughter that she would be going to hell because we were not born again Christians. It took two years in therapy to treat her for bad dreams, falling grades in school and other an sundry problems. My husband and I felt we were living with a child in need of an exorcist. They were only trying to save us, but what they did was a nightmare.
> when people on this site express their "opinions" on religion, it tends to make me crazy. There are many religions in this world, and the arrogance of people who think theirs is the ONLY and they are RIGHT are arrogant.
> 
> Let me add: This is MY opinion.


And of MANY others, I am certain!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

momeee said:


> Not really surprising... There was ample evidence of os leanings, loyalties, and associations prior to the first election, but many chose to deny or ignore it.


Why are you here momeee. We don't want what you are selling lady. You are a day late, no make that 150 years and ten cents short. Go preach to your own choir. We don't sing that tune. I tell you a little secret you may not know. Your buddies are over on Ravelry under Denim and Pearls and also Banana Heads. I think you will love it over there. Check it out. Yarnie is there too and Bonnie, etc. etc.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

bonbf3 wrote:
I go on other topics, and some of the people on her are never on any other topic. Do you just come on here to rant and rave and tell people their religious beliefs are like believing in Santa Clause and to shove it? 

Why not find a more productive way to get rid of all that rage you're carrying around? Take a fast walk around the block, beat a pillow, scream at the mirror, consult a shrink or clergy - but why come on here to insult people who are interested in friendly discussion?

I said before I just don't hang around with people like that in real life, and I'm not going to do it here. Only this time I mean it. I will miss some of you, but I'll have to get over it. This is not good mental health.

I've been pretty darn nice on here, but I'm telling you that I'm just fed up and losing any wish to communicate with such rude people who seem to actually delight in hurting the feelings of others. 

Some of you are angry and mean. If that's what it takes to keep you sweet in your real life, you need some anger management training. There is really no excuse for what goes on here, and administration should just shut this mess down. I'm disappointed in myself for being a party to this for so long. This is despicable - this is trampling on people - this is really not acceptable, well-adjusted adult behavior. Contemptible. 

For you nice folks who really want to have friendly discourse, try opening another topic. Get out of this horror show. This is toxic.

??????????????????? So why don't you go already, Bonnie? No one is making you come out here. If you don't like what goes on here go where you do like it.




Nicely said. I share your feelings.

momeee



****************As a wise man once told me. Go tell somebody who cares, momee. Go with Bonnie. Why do you come here if you don't like what goes on? I'm sure you can find lots of people who will want to talk to you. I feel like you want us to pick up and leave and we don't have to go anywhere. What gives you that right? Live and let live, please.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

As I understand it, Kim is a bastard from his father's union with a mistress. I believe hey said that the oldest brother liked capitalism too much as he was a partier and a gambler. I didn't hear about why the second son was overlooked. Did anyone hear about this?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> As I understand it, Kim is a bastard from his father's union with a mistress. I believe hey said that the oldest brother liked capitalism too much as he was a partier and a gambler. I didn't hear about why the second son was overlooked. Did anyone hear about this?


I read somewhere or other (Yahoo News?) that neither wanted the job. Wise move on their parts--if something happens to can skip away to China leaving Little Kim holding the bag.


----------



## ewe who (Jun 9, 2012)

Boy you people sure spout about nothing, and then you go on how you want to listen to both sides.

Really you think you are nice and kind, could of fooled me with what you post here. you sound like your hungry for blood, fangs and all. And you represent the democratic party? No wonder the United States is in such a mess with people like you out there. 

Is this what you do all day. Thinking of who to put down next. I would think you may want to get a life, it's out there just waiting.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

ewe who said:


> Boy you people sure spout about nothing, and then you go on how you want to listen to both sides.
> 
> Really you think you are nice and kind, could of fooled me with what you post here. you sound like your hungry for blood, fangs and all. And you represent the democratic party? No wonder the United States is in such a mess with people like you out there.
> 
> Is this what you do all day. Thinking of who to put down next. I would think you may want to get a life, it's out there just waiting.


A hit and run?

No, the perpetrator is hanging around waiting to see what the reaction to his/her words will be. Too bad.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Why are you here momeee. We don't want what you are selling lady. You are a day late, no make that 150 years and ten cents short. Go preach to your own choir. We don't sing that tune. I tell you a little secret you may not know. Your buddies are over on Ravelry under Denim and Pearls and also Banana Heads. I think you will love it over there. Check it out. Yarnie is there too and Bonnie, etc. etc.


Who are the "WE" you keep referring to all the time? It is almost like you have made yourself the leader of this 'we' group. It is almost like that pack mentality you/we had when you/we were ganging up on Yarnie. I know that I have friends on this thread. I know that my friends and I can agree on many things. But there is no way I would expect them to join in or support my opinion if they did not believe it. The best thing about my friends is that we can disagree or agree without moving as a pack of wild dogs attacking someone that does not share my/our views.


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> A hit and run?
> 
> No, the perpetrator is hanging around waiting to see what the reaction to his/her words will be. Too bad.


like you?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> like you?


Not quite, I'm waiting to see what else a lady who claims to enjoy "loving and learning about people" has to say. Her opening salvo here certainly doesn't fit that confident self-assessment, but you never know.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
Why are you here momeee. We don't want what you are selling lady. You are a day late, no make that 150 years and ten cents short. Go preach to your own choir. We don't sing that tune. I tell you a little secret you may not know. Your buddies are over on Ravelry under Denim and Pearls and also Banana Heads. I think you will love it over there. Check it out. Yarnie is there too and Bonnie, etc. etc.



Who are the "WE" you keep referring to all the time? It is almost like you have made yourself the leader of this 'we' group. It is almost like that pack mentality you/we had when you/we were ganging up on Yarnie. I know that I have friends on this thread. I know that my friends and I can agree on many things. But there is no way I would expect them to join in or support my opinion if they did not believe it. The best thing about my friends is that we can disagree or agree without moving as a pack of wild dogs attacking someone that does not share my/our views.

Have a blessed day

You are the hit and run who goes from one thread to another telling tales. We see your posts on your threads on KP and all the stuff you post on Ravelry. Yarnlady is out there with you too. What thrill does it give you to come out here? I would be embarrassed to carry on like you do. You have a real blessed day to off2whateverit is you do.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

You are the hit and run who goes from one thread to another telling tales. We see your posts on your threads on KP and all the stuff you post on Ravelry. Yarnlady is out there with you too. What thrill does it give you to come out here? I would be embarrassed to carry on like you do. You have a real blessed day to off2whateverit is you do.

Cheeky Blighter
Live, love, laugh and be happy.

What are you talking about? I have no posts on Ravelry. I don't gossip on other threads. Sounds like you are purposefully lying. Embarrassed, not at all. And your snide last sentence only reinforces to all about your ill temper.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> What are you talking about? I have no posts on Ravelry. I don't gossip on other threads.


How unfortunate then for us to be sole audience to the words falling from your saintly lips. How about spreading some of that sunshine and cheer around a bit? Yarnie for one might benefit from the QEs words of wisdom--sounds like the poor dear has fallen on hard times.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susan, where's the fly swatter?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> susan, where's the fly swatter?


Want to do the honors?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gladly. You know what those flies live off of. I don't want to see anybody in here diseased.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gladly. You know what those flies live off of. I don't want to see anybody in here diseased.


Good point. Show no mercy!


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> How unfortunate then for us to be sole audience to the words falling from your saintly lips. How about spreading some of that sunshine and cheer around a bit? Yarnie for one might benefit from the QEs words of wisdom--sounds like the poor dear has fallen on hard times.


How true. I will continue to post and spread more of my sunshine, thank you for the suggestion. I heard from a mutual friend that she is fine and in a safe place, and that is such good news.

SE


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You should go visit her. I am sure they have an extra bed for you, too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

off2knit said:


> How true. I will continue to post and spread more of my sunshine, thank you for the suggestion. I heard from a mutual friend that she is fine and in a safe place, and that is such good news.
> 
> SE


Indeed--if you're speaking about an overly-rambunctious puppy that was sent to live in the country after wreaking havoc on its mistress' house. Much less flattering to speak of a grown woman in such a way.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You should go visit her. I am sure they have an extra bed for you, too.


No question about it <grin>


----------



## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Indeed--if you're speaking about an overly-rambunctious puppy that was sent to live in the country after wreaking havoc on its mistress' house. Much less flattering to speak of a grown woman in such a way.


tsk tsk, so nasty. Are you suggesting animal abuse, letting the puppy loose to fend for itself. How horrible


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I know that my Avast said this was a phishing site, but really didn't care much. But I have noticed that if you mention a politician, their ads show up.
I am looking at one that says "Jim Graves is Back Stop Him!
and now one that says "Nancy Pelosi is Invading Minnesota.
Stop Her". This is too funny. Bachmann is at it again!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> tsk tsk, so nasty. Are you suggesting animal abuse, letting the puppy loose to fend for itself. How horrible


No, we are talking about pesky little flies. Make sure you run back to Ravelry and report that too.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know that my Avast said this was a phishing site, but really didn't care much. But I have noticed that if you mention a politician, their ads show up.
> I am looking at one that says "Jim Graves is Back Stop Him!
> and now one that says "Nancy Pelosi is Invading Minnesota.
> Stop Her". This is too funny. Bachmann is at it again!


I am so happy Graves is running again and Dayton. I think Bachmann's days are numbered.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know that my Avast said this was a phishing site, but really didn't care much. But I have noticed that if you mention a politician, their ads show up.
> I am looking at one that says "Jim Graves is Back Stop Him!
> and now one that says "Nancy Pelosi is Invading Minnesota.
> Stop Her". This is too funny. Bachmann is at it again!


I've noticed that too--"Should Obamacare be repealed/Vote" "Get your high school diploma". Sure seems like they know who they're dealing with here.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I am so happy Graves is running again and Dayton. I think Bachmann's days are numbered.


I think so. Seems like she's taken one too many shocks to the head in her husband's clinic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The Nancy Pelosi ad made me laugh out loud.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think so. Seems like she's taken one too many shocks to the head in her husband's clinic.


I heard she had some work done. A lobotomy??


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

After reading all of the posts from last night, an old Niel Diamond song popped into my head. Can anyone guess which one?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I heard she had some work done. A lobotomy??


Maybe--it sure would explain a lot! :thumbup:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> After reading all of the posts from last night, an old Niel Diamond song popped into my head. Can anyone guess which one?


No, please tell me. All I can think of is "Sweet Caroline" and I don't think that's it.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Yes--or maybe the QE will favor us with the tune? What a treat that would be--not!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Brother Love's Travelling Salvation Show


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Heehee, perfect!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Oh geez, Paul Anka is on Piers. Have to watch him. Next to Elvis , his was the best show I've ever seen.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Brother Love's Travelling Salvation Show


I was going to say "Breaking Up Is Hard to Do" but then I remembered that was Neil Sedaka's...


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> I am sure those non Christian religions would disagree with you. they believe every bit as strongly as you do that their religion is the "right" religion. I am still resenting that you feel the need to make your religion more "right" than anyone else's religion. why do you feel the need to expound on your religious beliefs on this site? Why not go to a site that believes the way you do?
> I really find bible beaters offensive and way too self righteous for me. Please no more bible quotes and invoking the name of your G-d. why do you say the things you do, unless you are proselytizing? I realize that we have free speech, but do you have to beat someone over the head with your beliefs?


Bible Beaters, Bible Thumpers, Bible Pounders, no matter what you call them, they get old real quick, and I say this as a person who just got her new Large Print Catholic Edition of the New Revised Standard Version Bible with which I will have a mostly personal and private relationship. I know I quoted a few verses from the Bible, but I did not do it to proselytize, but as part of talking about the concept of freedom from religion we have in this country. I really hope my intention was clear.

Through junior and senior high school one of the kids I hung out with was a Friend, and it was against his religion to say The Pledge of Allegiance, among other things. Teachers and other school authorities gave him a really rough time, and so many of us refused to say it to support our friend's right. Yes, in that instance we were sitting down for freedom of religion. The way I used the quote from the Bible earlier was to address how we come by the belief that we have freedom FROM religion, so I don't need to be reminded about that. My friend couldn't say the Pledge and, if he was in a court of law, he would not have been able to swear on the Bible that he would tell the truth. He would take advantage of his Constitutional right to make an affirmation that he would tell the truth, leaving him free from religion in that setting.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> You'd be better off to laugh, they are so brainwashed. I am not against anyone believing in a supreme deity. I have no problem discussing religion with open minded people. But when they start preaching, which to me sounds like proselytizing, I have no patience. I had neighbors, thought they were wonderful people. They were very helpful and caring, however I found out later that they were trying to "save" us by telling my 6 year old daughter that she would be going to hell because we were not born again Christians. It took two years in therapy to treat her for bad dreams, falling grades in school and other an sundry problems. My husband and I felt we were living with a child in need of an exorcist. They were only trying to save us, but what they did was a nightmare.
> when people on this site express their "opinions" on religion, it tends to make me crazy. There are many religions in this world, and the arrogance of people who think theirs is the ONLY and they are RIGHT are arrogant.
> 
> Let me add: This is MY opinion.


That is one of the worst cases of child abuse I have ever heard of. I believe your neighbors made criminal use of their religion. Rocky, I don't have the words to express how awful what happened to your daughter seems to me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Well, I think Little Kim will be quiet this weekend as he won't have enough press to cover his antics. And Monday is his grandfather's birthday which is I guess is a big thing over there. It was said that he will shoot missles over to Japan . I have to feel sorry for Japan. Devastating earthquakes, tsunami's are enough for them to recover from and now this threat.
I am still wondering where China stands.
Feel free to voice your opinions on this


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And just when we think there's no one to pick on, along comes a new name.



ewe who said:


> Boy you people sure spout about nothing, and then you go on how you want to listen to both sides.
> 
> Really you think you are nice and kind, could of fooled me with what you post here. you sound like your hungry for blood, fangs and all. And you represent the democratic party? No wonder the United States is in such a mess with people like you out there.
> 
> Is this what you do all day. Thinking of who to put down next. I would think you may want to get a life, it's out there just waiting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is that growling that I hear?



off2knit said:


> Who are the "WE" you keep referring to all the time? It is almost like you have made yourself the leader of this 'we' group. It is almost like that pack mentality you/we had when you/we were ganging up on Yarnie. I know that I have friends on this thread. I know that my friends and I can agree on many things. But there is no way I would expect them to join in or support my opinion if they did not believe it. The best thing about my friends is that we can disagree or agree without moving as a pack of wild dogs attacking someone that does not share my/our views.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find Cheeky Blighter to be intelligent and courageous. So interesting to read.



off2knit said:


> You are the hit and run who goes from one thread to another telling tales. We see your posts on your threads on KP and all the stuff you post on Ravelry. Yarnlady is out there with you too. What thrill does it give you to come out here? I would be embarrassed to carry on like you do. You have a real blessed day to off2whateverit is you do.
> 
> Cheeky Blighter
> Live, love, laugh and be happy.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Came up empty.



BrattyPatty said:


> I heard she had some work done. A lobotomy??


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

which one?



BrattyPatty said:


> After reading all of the posts from last night, an old Niel Diamond song popped into my head. Can anyone guess which one?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was all I could think of too. Too funny.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> No, please tell me. All I can think of is "Sweet Caroline" and I don't think that's it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sure she does! Just under a different name. The snorts gave her away. I guess they come in here looking for trouble because they are bored at Ravelry. She comes in to troll., or in her delicate ladylike (NOT) words "shadowing". and brings back everything she says and what was said to her in reply back to Ravelry.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> And just when we think there's no one to pick on, along comes a new name.


A new name but not a new person. Same old drek from Ravelry. I guess we should be flattered that they just can't stay away from us


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## Hilary Olive (Apr 10, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, I think Little Kim will be quiet this weekend as he won't have enough press to cover his antics. And Monday is his grandfather's birthday which is I guess is a big thing over there. It was said that he will shoot missles over to Japan . I have to feel sorry for Japan. Devastating earthquakes, tsunami's are enough for them to recover from and now this threat.
> I am still wondering where China stands.
> Feel free to voice your opinions on this


Can a new poster add their opinion here, please.

I firmly believe that China stands with China, for China, and for China alone, nobody else. Everyone else may be courted but only to further China and China's ends, nothing more.


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## Hilary Olive (Apr 10, 2013)

Certain religious ladies on this site are going to be rewarded when they die. They will be sent immediately to heaven where they will spend eternity praying, singing hymns and quoting the Bible.

Now, please be careful because could you imagine a worse HELL than being forced to spend eternity with them, in their company, listening to them preaching at you for ever and ever. I personally cannot think of a more horrendous punishment.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> And just when we think there's no one to pick on, along comes a new name.


So you are not here for conversation, you are here to pick on people? So your idea of an exchange of ideas is to gang up on new people? Is Hilary Olive also on your pick on list since she is new?

As for the false allegation of reporting to Ravelry a report of your nastiness, please send a link as to where I should post, since I have no posts there.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Bible Beaters, Bible Thumpers, Bible Pounders, no matter what you call them, they get old real quick, and I say this as a person who just got her new Large Print Catholic Edition of the New Revised Standard Version Bible with which I will have a mostly personal and private relationship. I know I quoted a few verses from the Bible, but I did not do it to proselytize, but as part of talking about the concept of freedom from religion we have in this country. I really hope my intention was clear.
> 
> Through junior and senior high school one of the kids I hung out with was a Friend, and it was against his religion to say The Pledge of Allegiance, among other things. Teachers and other school authorities gave him a really rough time, and so many of us refused to say it to support our friend's right. Yes, in that instance we were sitting down for freedom of religion. The way I used the quote from the Bible earlier was to address how we come by the belief that we have freedom FROM religion, so I don't need to be reminded about that. My friend couldn't say the Pledge and, if he was in a court of law, he would not have been able to swear on the Bible that he would tell the truth. He would take advantage of his Constitutional right to make an affirmation that he would tell the truth, leaving him free from religion in that setting.


I, of course, not thinking about your quote. It's the quotes about "MY G-d is the Only G-d that particularly bug me.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Welcome, new poster.:thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Hilary Olive said:


> Certain religious ladies on this site are going to be rewarded when they die. They will be sent immediately to heaven where they will spend eternity praying, singing hymns and quoting the Bible.
> 
> Now, please be careful because could you imagine a worse HELL than being forced to spend eternity with them, in their company, listening to them preaching at you for ever and ever. I personally cannot think of a more horrendous punishment.


Mark Twain was known to wonder why people wanted to go to Heaven where they would be doing, for eternity, what they could barely endure for a little while down here on Sundays...


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> That is one of the worst cases of child abuse I have ever heard of. I believe your neighbors made criminal use of their religion. Rocky, I don't have the words to express how awful what happened to your daughter seems to me.


Thank you for your concern. I can remember one particular night, after tucking her into bed. I went to the den an told my husband that we needed to find an exorcist ASAP, because I had no idea what to do. Her thoughts were so unimaginable, especially for a six year old, that I knew we needed more help. Even though, he is a doctor, it was not easy to convince him to let her see a psychologist. However, today, she is a wonderful, if not anxious, mother of two boys. we've come a long way.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

Hilary Olive said:


> Certain religious ladies on this site are going to be rewarded when they die. They will be sent immediately to heaven where they will spend eternity praying, singing hymns and quoting the Bible.
> 
> Now, please be careful because could you imagine a worse HELL than being forced to spend eternity with them, in their company, listening to them preaching at you for ever and ever. I personally cannot think of a more horrendous punishment.


AMEN Sistah!!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> AMEN Sistah!!


According to Kabbalah, the Jewish form of mysticism, after you die you do go to heaven, however your can be reincarnated into a new life on earth. Men, if I remember correctly have to come back multiple times to get it RIGHT, women on the other hand do not have to be reincarnated unless they CHOOSE to. I guess G-d in his/her infinite wisdom, realizes that a woman's life is that much harder than a mans. Also, when someone chooses to be reincarnated, they know beforehand what kind of life they will be having on earth. Therefore, there is some lesson that has to be learned in that new life, even if it is to suffer.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

Pray hard.

Over on Rav, they're now saying "Theyre really terrible over there. And a waste of time. They certainly arent people I want to associate with" and that they've sworn us off. 

Would that it was true.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sure she does! Just under a different name. The snorts gave her away. I guess they come in here looking for trouble because they are bored at Ravelry. She comes in to troll., or in her delicate ladylike (NOT) words "shadowing". and brings back everything she says and what was said to her in reply back to Ravelry.


Agree, how many QEs could there be? God help us if the woman has an identical twin--or worse yet, an army of clones.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

rocky1991 said:


> Thank you for your concern. I can remember one particular night, after tucking her into bed. I went to the den an told my husband that we needed to find an exorcist ASAP, because I had no idea what to do. Her thoughts were so unimaginable, especially for a six year old, that I knew we needed more help. Even though, he is a doctor, it was not easy to convince him to let her see a psychologist. However, today, she is a wonderful, if not anxious, mother of two boys. we've come a long way.


I am super glad that your daughter got through that awful experience.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Rocky, so sorry for what happened to your daughter at the hands of those religious nuts. Thank goodness you and your husband found out in time to intervene!
Had a somewhat similar experience as a child...at the County Fair my sister and I ducked into a religious booth called "The Gingerbread House". The irony of the name escaped me at the time, but we were truly being held captive by a wicked witch when the lady in charge told us we couldn't leave until we declared that Jesus Christ was our Lord and Savior! Not sure how we got away--I think the lady ( and I use the word loosely) finally relented when I started crying, but it was absolutely hair-raising. We never told our parents what happened, though--wish we had.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

FreedomFries said:


> Pray hard.
> 
> Over on Rav, they're now saying "Theyre really terrible over there. And a waste of time. They certainly arent people I want to associate with" and that they've sworn us off.
> 
> Would that it was true.


SS? LOL


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> Pray hard.
> 
> Over on Rav, they're now saying "Theyre really terrible over there. And a waste of time. They certainly arent people I want to associate with" and that they've sworn us off.
> 
> Would that it was true.


Got it in one, FF.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Agree, how many QEs could there be? God help us if the woman has an identical twin--or worse yet, an army of clones.


If you're at all interested in science fiction, let me recommend "Kiln People" by David Brin. It's got a great take on cloning.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> SS? LOL


Are you talking to me? Wanna let me in on why your opinion or whatever it is makes you LOL?


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Rocky, so sorry for what happened to your daughter at the hands of those religious nuts. Thank goodness you and your husband found out in time to intervene!
> Had a somewhat similar experience as a child...at the County Fair my sister and I ducked into a religious booth called "The Gingerbread House". The irony of the name escaped me at the time, but we were truly being held captive by a wicked witch when the lady in charge told us we couldn't leave until we declared that Jesus Christ was our Lord and Savior! Not sure how we got away--I think the lady ( and I use the word loosely) finally relented when I started crying, but it was absolutely hair-raising. We never told our parents what happened, though--wish we had.


I can imagine how that must have been, terrifying.. Religious zealots of ay orthodoxy (is that redundant?) are a little bit crazy. I once tried to have a conversation with a Jehovah's Witness, that went nowhere fast. They are very knowledgeable in their dogma. it is very difficult to argue with them and for the most part they have no idea what a Jew is.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Guess what? Yarnie just appeared in FF thread. Is anyone the least bit surprised that she's back?


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

The shock of it! 

How many times has she announced that she'll never be back? I've lost count.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

FreedomFries said:


> The shock of it! How many times has she announced that she'll never be back? I've lost count.


Indeed, what a terrible shock. I think I might faint. Guess I better get down on my knees and thank God she isn't here with us (yet), and beg for His protection. To cover all my bases, I'd better pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary, too...:twisted: Join me now, dear sisters, and let us turn to the Lord in this time of distress.  :-D While I take my personal religious beliefs very seriously, I have not lost my sense of humor.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

rocky1991 said:


> I can imagine how that must have been, terrifying.. Religious zealots of ay orthodoxy (is that redundant?) are a little bit crazy. I once tried to have a conversation with a Jehovah's Witness, that went nowhere fast. They are very knowledgeable in their dogma. it is very difficult to argue with them and for the most part they have no idea what a Jew is.


I think every single religion has fundamentalists whether it be "born again Christians", Hasidic Jews, Tridentine Catholics, Muslim Jihadists, or Mormon polygamists. Some proselytize, some don't. Some violent, some not. It depends on the depth of fervency of the person and how far away from reality s/he is. Just my opinion.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think every single religion has fundamentalists whether it be "born again Christians", Hasidic Jews, Tridentine Catholics, Muslim Jihadists, or Mormon polygamists. Some proselytize, some don't. Some violent, some not. It depends on the depth of fervency of the person and how far away from reality s/he is. Just my opinion.


You're right on the money as far as I'm concerned. Being a religious fundamentalist is an equal opportunity deal.


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> You're right on the money as far as I'm concerned. Being a religious fundamentalist is an equal opportunity deal.


Absolutely!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Yes who could forget that snort of lake lady. I think she has a deviated septum or something or maybe she is part Sus scrofa domesticus. Either way she is a hoot. No off2 knit, SE or whoever you are these days I thought you devote people are not supposed to have any strange gods before you but there you are over on Ravelry letting all those banana heads worship you. You are the kind if Catholic who gives Catholics a bad name. When you refer to we it's you and those who adore you but when I use we it's all these lovely ladies and me who each have our own brain and ideas which we are free to use in any manner we wish. Then we come together here and have a lovely open exchange of ideas. You on the other hand have set yourself up as some kind of pathetic dictator zealot and all your lackeys follow along never doubting the wisdom of their SE. Now that you have been outed scoot back to your play pen and play with all the other banana heads. Did someone mention clones? That's it they are cloned bananas.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Rocky that is terrible what was done to your daughter. I'm happy to hear you were able to get her help to get beyond it. Children are so vulnerable and we think of all the other kinds of abuses that are out there and what your daughter experienced is just as bad. So many kids keep abuse to themselves and it's hard for parents to deal with too. My sister and I were approached by a neighbor boy who exposed himself to each one of us and then tried to touch us in separate incidents. We both ended up running away but neither of us told anyone about it until we were both in our 50's and my sister mentioned this guy. She told me what had happened to her and I was shocked telling her he had done the same thing to me. We both thought it was our fault. Abuse comes in many forms and I guess the only thing parents can do is tell there kids they can go to them about anything and if someone does or says something to them that is not right or makes them feel uncomfortable to get away from that person and let them know what happened.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

My husband was rescued by his mother at age 11 just as he was about to be dunked (baptized) in a revival tent. This kind of thing with children shouldn't happen.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

katlapp said:


> Just wanted to drop by for a second to let folks know that I have just witnessed the Holy Spirit at work and what a beautiful thing it is. Anyone here who wants to let go of their meanness and hate only has to turn to Him and they will never be sorry!


Can we give equal time and space to the Goddess here? (I could go on and on, but for mercy's sake, I'll stop!!)

Karen N.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But they are like mosquitoes....and just as lovable.



BrattyPatty said:


> A new name but not a new person. Same old drek from Ravelry. I guess we should be flattered that they just can't stay away from us


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I personally don't think they will see heaven.



Hilary Olive said:


> Certain religious ladies on this site are going to be rewarded when they die. They will be sent immediately to heaven where they will spend eternity praying, singing hymns and quoting the Bible.
> 
> Now, please be careful because could you imagine a worse HELL than being forced to spend eternity with them, in their company, listening to them preaching at you for ever and ever. I personally cannot think of a more horrendous punishment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you still enjoy a lake view off the lake?



off2knit said:


> So you are not here for conversation, you are here to pick on people? So your idea of an exchange of ideas is to gang up on new people? Is Hilary Olive also on your pick on list since she is new?
> 
> As for the false allegation of reporting to Ravelry a report of your nastiness, please send a link as to where I should post, since I have no posts there.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's so upsetting the harm that is done in the name of religion. Yours is a very sad example. I'm so sorry your daughter had to suffer.



rocky1991 said:


> AMEN Sistah!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lilies of the Field......A-a-men a-men a-men. All together.



FreedomFries said:


> Pray hard.
> 
> Over on Rav, they're now saying "Theyre really terrible over there. And a waste of time. They certainly arent people I want to associate with" and that they've sworn us off.
> 
> Would that it was true.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're scarin me.



susanmos2000 said:


> Agree, how many QEs could there be? God help us if the woman has an identical twin--or worse yet, an army of clones.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

OMG! Horrible.



susanmos2000 said:


> Rocky, so sorry for what happened to your daughter at the hands of those religious nuts. Thank goodness you and your husband found out in time to intervene!
> Had a somewhat similar experience as a child...at the County Fair my sister and I ducked into a religious booth called "The Gingerbread House". The irony of the name escaped me at the time, but we were truly being held captive by a wicked witch when the lady in charge told us we couldn't leave until we declared that Jesus Christ was our Lord and Savior! Not sure how we got away--I think the lady ( and I use the word loosely) finally relented when I started crying, but it was absolutely hair-raising. We never told our parents what happened, though--wish we had.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ingried is known to have confused the JW's so badly that they gave up coming to her house. See why we miss her so?



rocky1991 said:


> I can imagine how that must have been, terrifying.. Religious zealots of ay orthodoxy (is that redundant?) are a little bit crazy. I once tried to have a conversation with a Jehovah's Witness, that went nowhere fast. They are very knowledgeable in their dogma. it is very difficult to argue with them and for the most part they have no idea what a Jew is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No I'm not. Any thoughts?



susanmos2000 said:


> Guess what? Yarnie just appeared in FF thread. Is anyone the least bit surprised that she's back?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I've got a good one for you. I have a friend who's blind. He was sitting on a park bench one day when he was surrounded by several religious people who wanted to heal him. He said go ahead. Well, their efforts failed. That's when he told them his eyes were glass and popped one out to prove it (he was a cheeky teenager at the time). The group was shocked, horrified and inspired to leave as quickly as they possibly could. This story still gives me a chuckle. This guy flys his own small plane. He's instrument rated. Thus, he continues to boggle the sighted.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There are many different deities. Do we have to pray to all to cover our bases?

A-a-men, a-men, a-men.



SeattleSoul said:


> Indeed, what a terrible shock. I think I might faint. Guess I better get down on my knees and thank God she isn't here with us (yet), and beg for His protection. To cover all my bases, I'd better pray to the Blessed Virgin Mary, too...:twisted: Join me now, dear sisters, and let us turn to the Lord in this time of distress.  :-D While I take my personal religious beliefs very seriously, I have not lost my sense of humor.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting thoughts. I'm sure that they think they have no connection with each other.



alcameron said:


> I think every single religion has fundamentalists whether it be "born again Christians", Hasidic Jews, Tridentine Catholics, Muslim Jihadists, or Mormon polygamists. Some proselytize, some don't. Some violent, some not. It depends on the depth of fervency of the person and how far away from reality s/he is. Just my opinion.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes who could forget that snort of lake lady. I think she has a deviated septum or something or maybe she is part Sus scrofa domesticus. Either way she is a hoot. No off2 knit, SE or whoever you are these days I thought you devote people are not supposed to have any strange gods before you but there you are over on Ravelry letting all those banana heads worship you. You are the kind if Catholic who gives Catholics a bad name. When you refer to we it's you and those who adore you but when I use we it's all these lovely ladies and me who each have our own brain and ideas which we are free to use in any manner we wish. Then we come together here and have a lovely open exchange of ideas. You on the other hand have set yourself up as some kind of pathetic dictator zealot and all your lackeys follow along never doubting the wisdom of their SE. Now that you have been outed scoot back to your play pen and play with all the other banana heads. Did someone mention clones? That's it they are cloned bananas.


Now, now, Cheeky. That's "devout" to you.LOL:-D I don't think the kind of Catholics you were referring to are worshipping strange gods. I think they're worshipping fallen idols.

I don't see any value in remarking at all about their religious beliefs here, especially when you name people and get a little facetious about what you see as the quality of their religious practices. It seems to me that it just wastes space, and leads to rude exchanges. But, serously, I think if there is any real discussion of religion here it has to be polite, and stick as close as possible to a kind of educational discussion/exchange. You know, like "I believe this. What do you believe?". No judmental hooey. :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

The discussion here about China, Japan and DPRK has been really interesting. I've enjoyed the variety of insights. For some reason, I am very paranoid that the DPRK will manage to get a nuclear missile to the West Coast, in spite of knowing what little there is to know about their real ability to make any kind of nuclear attack closer to home. My feeling is probably related to all that "duck and cover" stuff my generation went through.

Speaking a bit more realistically, I think if he actually has and launches a missile with a nuclear warhead it will be aimed at South Korea. If he damages SK enough he can say he's reunited Korea. He won't dwell in how he did that.

It's also so incredibly sad and outrageous that so many of his fellow DPRKans are starving while Kim Jong Un rattles his nukes and doesn't even seem to believe his own people are people. His taking that approach makes him seem like some kind of animal abuser.


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

damemary said:


> Do you still enjoy a lake view off the lake?


I only have a creek to look at, but for you city folks maybe you think it is a lake. Random question, but that's okay, whatever floats your boat


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> Now, now, Cheeky. That's "devout" to you.LOL:-D I don't think the kind of Catholics you were referring to are worshipping strange gods. I think they're worshipping fallen idols.
> 
> I don't see any value in remarking at all about their religious beliefs here, especially when you name people and get a little facetious about what you see as the quality of their religious practices. It seems to me that it just wastes space, and leads to rude exchanges. But, serously, I think if there is any real discussion of religion here it has to be polite, and stick as close as possible to a kind of educational discussion/exchange. You know, like "I believe this. What do you believe". No judmental hooey. :thumbup:


Dear SS thank you for correcting my spelling. May I kindly point out your spelling of the word serously and judmental. It is seriously and judgemental. Thank you and have a blessed day. :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Solowey - I understand the concern with the Muslim Brotherhood, but it is very hard to know who is who and what side they are on in the Middle East. I know it is easy to blame President Obama for everything but he gets his information from the Military, CIA State Dept. etc. Personally I don't trust most of the countries in that area except Israel. I don't consider any of them friends just countries we make deals with to protect ourselves. Pakistan is terrible but out of necessity we do business with them. I wouldn't turn my back on them. They are tribal countries who have beliefs and loyalties to their own tribe and the government after that and some of them don't even recognize country boundaries but tribal territories as in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It is a part of the world that is always changing but hanging on to these ancient loyalties. I didn't realize how complex it was over there until Desert Storm when I tried to read everything I could about that part of the world as our son was over there and I was worried sick about his safety. No President runs the country alone. It is not his job and it would be impossible. I only would say it would be nice if the right would stop blaming everything on Obama. I can honestly say I was no fan of the second President Bush but I certainly didn't blame him every time something bad happened and I can also praise a President when they do something good. I will be the first to let President Obama know when I am not happy with him and I do so on a regular basis. He is not all bad and has done many positive things for all of us.


I realize that the President does not do everything on his own. That's why he has advisors and a Cabinet. When I refer to Obama, I'm not always referring to him alone. I use his name and his administration interchangeably. It does get confusing so I will be more careful in that area.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I realize that the President does not do everything on his own. That's why he has advisors and a Cabinet. When I refer to Obama, I'm not always referring to him alone. I use his name and his administration interchangeably. It does get confusing so I will be more careful in that area.


It is unfortunate but you are correct that it's usually the President that takes the blame for everything that happens especially the bad stuff. Thanks for your reply.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> bonbf3 wrote:
> I go on other topics, and some of the people on her are never on any other topic. Do you just come on here to rant and rave and tell people their religious beliefs are like believing in Santa Clause and to shove it?
> 
> Why not find a more productive way to get rid of all that rage you're carrying around? Take a fast walk around the block, beat a pillow, scream at the mirror, consult a shrink or clergy - but why come on here to insult people who are interested in friendly discussion?
> ...


I imagine it is the same person that gives you the right to tell someone to get lost, that we don't want you here.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Sure she does! Just under a different name. The snorts gave her away. I guess they come in here looking for trouble because they are bored at Ravelry. She comes in to troll., or in her delicate ladylike (NOT) words "shadowing". and brings back everything she says and what was said to her in reply back to Ravelry.


Sounds a lot like susanmos2000 and SeattleSoul lurking on the other site and tattling here about what goes on over there. just sayin.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

According to Obama, the rich need to pay their fair share and the good news is that we finally have an answer to how much is that fair share.

And that answer is 18.4%. It is the amount the Obama's and Biden's paid for last years taxes. Since both families' earnings fall into the 1% category, then what they paid should be considered their fair share. PHEW, glad that has been decided.


Kudos to Boeing. They will be spending 1B to expand their SC plant, adding 2000 jobs to the state's economy.


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## FreedomFries (Oct 31, 2012)

How is this in any way worse--let alone comparable--to what went on in the "Who is the Nastiest Dem" thread? Giggling and gabbling about who said what and who you imagine you've told off the worst?

Frankly, if you wanted a private discussion group where you could safely poke fingers and call names without anyone else knowing, almost any place is better than a public forum with more than three million members. Nothing on Ravelry is secret, nor is it supposed to be. 

It sounds to me like your only objection is that people realize what you've been doing. To which all I can say is deal with it.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Dear SS thank you for correcting my spelling. May I kindly point out your spelling of the word serously and judmental. It is seriously and judgemental. Thank you and have a blessed day. :thumbup:


I was joking a bit with you, hence the smiley face and thumbs-up. Sometimes there have been people here who have been very serious about spelling. I can only think you are sending a little joke back to me about my own wonderfully perfect spelling (NOT) Once upon a time I was a proofreader and could even spell...A little whimsy (whimsey??) goes a long way. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I imagine it is the same person that gives you the right to tell someone to get lost, that we don't want you here.


Bonnie has said several times she is going to leave and never come back when she gets upset out here. Momee said the same thing yesterday. No one gives me the right to say anything but Bonnie is IMO being silly doing this over and over again and then coming back. Who is forcing her to come back? She can leave whenever she wants. Maybe she loves the drama of an exit but I for one would like her to either stay or go. I don't believe she wants to do anything out here but cause trouble. Momee, I'm not sure what her shtick is. What are your motives for being out here? I was interacting with you in a polite matter and then you now are worried about Bonnie and Momee? What's with that? Doesn't make any sense to me.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Sounds a lot like susanmos2000 and SeattleSoul lurking on the other site and tattling here about what goes on over there. just sayin.


Solowey I tried to be nice to you and smack you are just out here spreading your usual layer of cow poop. You are a bore and yesterday's news. Go share your "news" with the rest of the banana heads. Bye Bye :XD: This is me laughing so hard I am crying.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SeattleSoul said:


> I was joking a bit with you, hence the smiley face and thumbs-up. Sometimes there have been people here who have been very serious about spelling. I can only think you are sending a little joke back to me about my own wonderfully perfect spelling (NOT) Once upon a time I was a proofreader and could even spell...A little whimsy (whimsey??) goes a long way. :thumbup:


A little whimsey goes a long ways, SS :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bonnie has said several times she is going to leave and never come back when she gets upset out here. Momee said the same thing yesterday. No one gives me the right to say anything but Bonnie is IMO being silly doing this over and over again and then coming back. Who is forcing her to back? She can leave whenever she wants. Maybe she loves the drama of an exit but I for one would like her to either stay or go. I don't believe she wants to do anything out here but cause trouble. Momee, I'm not sure what her shtick is. What are your motives for being out hear? I was interacting with you in a polite matter and then you now are worried about Bonnie and Momee? What's with that? Doesn't make any sense to me.


I am worried about who has the right to tell anyone to leave a thread or forum. You gals obviously don't care for one another, but none of you have the right to tell the other to get lost. If you don't like someone, just don't read their posts. I do this all the time, try it you might like it.  Scroll past, scroll past, scroll past....


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It's not a random question at all.



off2knit said:


> I only have a creek to look at, but for you city folks maybe you think it is a lake. Random question, but that's okay, whatever floats your boat


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

People with time and inclination can certainly visit as many sites as they like. This one is more than enough for me.



soloweygirl said:


> Sounds a lot like susanmos2000 and SeattleSoul lurking on the other site and tattling here about what goes on over there. just sayin.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Wow, lot of activity. I have an upper respiratory infection so I haven't been here much. I'll catch up. Miss you guys!


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## rocky1991 (May 8, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> According to Obama, the rich need to pay their fair share and the good news is that we finally have an answer to how much is that fair share.
> 
> And that answer is 18.4%. It is the amount the Obama's and Biden's paid for last years taxes. Since both families' earnings fall into the 1% category, then what they paid should be considered their fair share. PHEW, glad that has been decided.
> 
> Kudos to Boeing. They will be spending 1B to expand their SC plant, adding 2000 jobs to the state's economy.


He pays what the tax laws allow. Just like any other 1%er, that is why loopholes have to be closed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

HiGW! Hope you feel better soon! I had that last week. Yuk!
Lots of liquids and rest and TLC!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Welcome Hilary Olive! Feel free to post whenever you like.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hmm, a city girl from Minnesota would have no idea what a lake looks like......


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hmm, a city girl from Minnesota would have no idea what a lake looks like......


Hurting people hurt people. Guess that sums up what appears to be your MO. What other conclusion could be reached?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope you're feeling better.



GWPlver said:


> Wow, lot of activity. I have an upper respiratory infection so I haven't been here much. I'll catch up. Miss you guys!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Anyone who itemizes is likely to owe less than the top rate. Our "horribly high" top tax rate only refers to the rate beyond the next lowest rate.

I agree, closing loopholes will make Federal Income Tax simpler and probably generate more revenue.



rocky1991 said:


> He pays what the tax laws allow. Just like any other 1%er, that is why loopholes have to be closed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Calling other people names does not negate the issue.

You have made a major issue out of changing names, while harassing people. Then you changed your name. I think that qualifies you as a hypocrite.



off2knit said:


> Hurting people hurt people. Guess that sums up what appears to be your MO. What other conclusion could be reached?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hurting people hurt people. Guess that sums up what appears to be your MO. What other conclusion could be reached?


And that has what to do with lakes? pffffffttttt.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Frankly ladies, I'm beginning to believe that perhaps we've been every bit as naughty as the GOPers claim. Why else would God have unleashed upon our heads the modern equivalent of the Ten Plagues of Egypt in the forms of kittykat, Ewe Who, Yarnie, Offnit (definitely the Plague of Lice), and many others? Maybe if we imitate Pharaoh and order the righties away they'll spend the next thirty-eight years wandering through the wilderness.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gee what is it they call Minneapolis, Patti? Ever see any water there? Ah, now I remember it's the City of Lakes. 16 in all and then there is the beautiful Minnehaha Falls and running right through the middle of it is the mighty Mississippi River whose headwaters are right here in Minnesota. Then there are 10,000 other lakes through out the state and to the north the largest freshwater lake in the world the beautiful Superior. You can't walk more than a few blocks without ending up in the water. Some people lead such sheltered lives it's a pity. Or maybe they skipped geography in grade school.

Birch Pond	Lake 
Nokomis
Brownie Lake 
Meadowbrook Lake
Lake Calhoun 
Powderhorn Lake
Cedar Lake 
Ryan Lake
Lake Harriet 
Spring Lake
Lake Hiawatha 
Sweeney Lake
Lake of the Isles 
Twin Lake
Loring Pond 
Wirth Lake


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Feel better soon. We miss you GW.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Up here we have in the center of the city
Lake George. 
Surrounding us:
Clear Lake
Clearwater Lake
Kraemar Lake
Middle Spunk Lake
Upper Spunk Lake
Cedar Lake
Grand Lake
Pearl Lake
Sugar Lake
Round Lake
Pikeral Lake
Pelican Lake
Ochotto Lake
Plaesant Lake
Not to mention the Mississippi River
and the Sauk River
No creeks though.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I guess they don't call Minnesota the Land of 10,000 Lakes for nothin'!
I'm kinda' half watching James Bond, and last night I was tied up with Warriors basketball. A great game except we lost. The Lakers got to the free throw line about 4x's more than my team. Bad, bad officiating.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Hey ladies, just received a PM from Thumper--pretty tame, but still I've said more than once that I will post copies of all such PMs along with the sender's name.


"Frankly ladies, I'm beginning to believe that perhaps we've been every bit as naughty as the GOPers claim"

Ya think? 

Geez


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess they don't call Minnesota the Land of 10,000 Lakes for nothin'!
> I'm kinda' half watching James Bond, and last night I was tied up with Warriors basketball. A great game except we lost. The Lakers got to the free throw line about 4x's more than my team. Bad, bad officiating.


Bummer about the game. I would have been a good basketball player if I was a little taller. 
I have never been able to get into James Bond movies. I was too young for the first ones and I just thought they were funny. I did like the theme songs from them though. 
No MN is sure not water deprived. I think people who live by creeks suffer from lake envy.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bummer about the game. I would have been a good basketball player if I was a little taller.
> I have never been able to get into James Bond movies. I was too young for the first ones and I just thought they were funny. I did like the theme songs from them though.
> No MN is sure not water deprived. I think people who live by creeks suffer from lake envy.


Adele sings the Skyfall song, and I like her. I wish Amy Winehouse was still with us. I have all her music. I knew she wouldn't last long at the rate she was destroying herself. She had a great, unique voice.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

I like Adelle and Amy Winehouse too. So sad she couldn't get it together. She really was such a gifted person. 
I am getting very sleepy so I am going off to bed.
See you later.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Thumper you owe an apology for your comment about grandchildren to grandmother. It was inappropriate and you know it. If you don't think so, please explain. Thank you.


How dare you!!! I don't owe apologies to anyone. We are supposed to be the the protectors. Not the destroyers. We have put ourselves as the judge and jury over all and, as a result, have made ourselves worse than those than we origanally protested against. And I'm the bad guy? Not by a long shot.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

You never answered my question, Thumper. Do you go up to mothers with babies and say that the time must have ben optimal and and state that their baby must be the "chosen one?

How dare you!!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

off2knit said:


> Hurting people hurt people. Guess that sums up what appears to be your MO. What other conclusion could be reached?


My MO is to enjoy the ladies who are actualy discussing issues.
You, however have an MO to come in and agitate people and stick your long probiscus into everyone's business .
It's a shame that you lie out of the same mouth you claim to pray with.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I confronted her as changing her name.



BrattyPatty said:


> And that has what to do with lakes? pffffffttttt.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



susanmos2000 said:


> Hey ladies, just received a PM from Thumper--pretty tame, but still I've said more than once that I will post copies of all such PMs along with the sender's name.
> 
> "Frankly ladies, I'm beginning to believe that perhaps we've been every bit as naughty as the GOPers claim"
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Skyfall, the last James Bond was beyond the campy stuff. I thought it was the best.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bummer about the game. I would have been a good basketball player if I was a little taller.
> I have never been able to get into James Bond movies. I was too young for the first ones and I just thought they were funny. I did like the theme songs from them though.
> No MN is sure not water deprived. I think people who live by creeks suffer from lake envy.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always dare to speak the truth.



thumper5316 said:


> How dare you!!! I don't owe apologies to anyone. We are supposed to be the the protectors. Not the destroyers. We have put ourselves as the judge and jury over all and, as a result, have made ourselves worse than those than we origanally protested against. And I'm the bad guy? Not by a long shot.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My MO is to enjoy the ladies who are actualy discussing issues.
> You, however have an MO to come in and agitate people and stick your long probiscus into everyone's business .
> It's a shame that you lie out of the same mouth you claim to pray with.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And that has what to do with lakes? pffffffttttt.


drive to swim in them, duh


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## off2knit (Sep 12, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My MO is to enjoy the ladies who are actualy discussing issues.
> You, however have an MO to come in and agitate people and stick your long probiscus into everyone's business .
> It's a shame that you lie out of the same mouth you claim to pray with.


tsk tsk tsk. Never knew picking on people, name calling, making false accusations and ganging up on people was the new definition of 'discussion'. Learn something new everyday. Guess hurting people do hurt people, and sometimes intentionally.


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