# Any Catholic's Out There



## deercreek

When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


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## nanma esther

i'm not cathloic, but had many frinds in school that were,i rember they wore somthing like a dollie, so don't see why a dollie wouldn't work


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## 5mmdpns

I know that many many different Mennonites wear them. I was not aware that Roman Catholics also wore them. The cardinals wear them when they are in their official duties. Pope will wear a white one. Zoe


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## busyworkerbee

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


Obviously a more strict church than I attended growing up. Your best bet might be crochetpatterncentral.com. Try there and you might find something suitable.


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## copper wire-n- beads

I think the word you are looking for is Matilda. It's a lace scarf, usually triangle. You might also try looking for Christian head covering.


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## breeze075

copper wire-n- beads said:


> I think the word you are looking for is Matilda. It's a lace scarf, usually triangle. You might also try looking for Christian head covering.


I'm not Catholic, but I believe it was called a "mantilla"

There are a few on Ravelry; this may be one of the easier ones:

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


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## PeggyAnn

As a Catholic, I wore either the mantilla or a lace piece that does look like a doilie. Usually these were black, but I have seen the mantillas in white also. Any lace covering that is light weight would be lovely and appropriate. As a note, we stopped wearing them sometime in the 60's but I've noticed a few people wearing them lately. And, of course, we all wore hats back then too


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## AKRaven

A mantilla is a lacy scarf-like 'head covering'. Some are triangular, others are rectangular. Small head coverings, like a doily, are also worn. I think any shawlette type of pattern would work.


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## copper wire-n- beads

Yeah, I think that might be the right spelling.


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## Doubledee

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


I grew up in that era. And yes, women had to wear something on their heads in church, whether it be a scarf or cap or hat on their heads. There was probably a name for the round, doily like piece of lace , but I can't remember it. They were bobby pinned on, and were so light they didn't weigh down your hair. Mine was black. It was like a doily. I also had a larger triangular one called a mantilla in black. You can sometimes still find an original in thrift stores.


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## cttrice1948

What you are looking for is called a mantilla. Jacqueline Kennedy made them popular when she married Aristotle Onassis. Up until that Catholic women wore hats as head coverings. The mantillas were eventually replaced by those dumb doilies..


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## kaixixang

This is the only close match I found...it is $6 USD...from the poster of the link below...I am not she:
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/mantilla


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## sbubbles84

What a thoughtful gesture on your part for your friend! They were called "Chapel or Communion Veils" and "Mantillas". You can try looking for patterns for lace shawls and then just shorten them to fall about the head and shoulders for a Mantilla. I love this free pattern on Ravelry: http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/elise-shawl, but any lace shawl or stole pattern would do. Here are several on Moogly: 
http://www.mooglyblog.com/beautiful-crochet-lace-10-free-patterns/ 
I agree about using a doily pattern for the round Chapel Veil/Head Covering. I would check out Ravelry http://www.ravelry.com/, Crochet Pattern Central http://www.crochetpatterncentral.com, and Free Vintage Crochet http://freevintagecrochet.com. They have lovely doily, shawl and stole patterns you could adapt. Good luck!
Blessings,
Shirley
P.S. Found this store on Artfire: http://www.artfire.com/ext/shop/studio/VelleMere that might give you a better idea of what to look for in finding patterns you could adapt. She also has veils you can purchase, but I did not see any patterns. She might be willing to sell her patterns, though, if you contact her.


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## KnitterNatalie

The "shawl" is called a mantilla, and the lovely lace was very popular when I was growing up...I've been a Catholic all my life. Here are a few links that may help you.

http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEss12/FEATss12EK.php

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/symphony-mantilla-248

http://www.yarnover.net/web/patterns/shawls.html

http://www.yarnover.net/web/patterns/shawls.html

http://www.knitrowan.com/designs-and-patterns/patterns/mantilla-shawlette


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## Finny

Here is another one from Etsy. You can buy the pattern which is says is from 1960. it looks beautiful. I got a lovely black one at a rummage sale last year. it has an Italian look to it and is rectangular.

Good luck and God Bless!

http://www.etsy.com/listing/87112815/vintage-crochet-pattern-mantilla-veil


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## Hilary4

This is the size and style I recall - my mother and I needed them when we toured Europe in 1969:


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## RookieRetiree

Hilary4 said:


> This is the size and style I recall - my mother and I needed them when we toured Europe in 1969:


As young girls, we wore the round head coverings and secured them wit bobby pins. We'd always have one in our coat pocket so we didn't forget it.

As teenagers and young Moms, we wore the short triangular veils. I wore a type of the Mantilla veil or my wedding.


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## damemary

You are correct. They were once required but were discontinued as required. Mantilla is correct. Used to be thin nylon lace. Any pattern you like in approximately 8" round or medium triangular shape will work.



breeze075 said:


> I'm not Catholic, but I believe it was called a "mantilla"
> 
> There are a few on Ravelry; this may be one of the easier ones:
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


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## macnzacsmom

We referred to them as chapel veils, a round lacy "doily" that just sat on the top of our heads if we didn't have a hat


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## Whitwillhands

This is a nice one

http://www.artfire.com/ext/shop/studio/VelleMere/1/1/43398//


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## paljoey46

PeggyAnn said:


> As a Catholic, I wore either the mantilla or a lace piece that does look like a doilie. Usually these were black, but I have seen the mantillas in white also. Any lace covering that is light weight would be lovely and appropriate. As a note, we stopped wearing them sometime in the 60's but I've noticed a few people wearing them lately. And, of course, we all wore hats back then too


We wore these, too, when I was growing up. I had mantillas and "doilies" in white and black. I preferred the "doilie" type as this wasn't constantly in my face.

I would think any doilie pattern would and any shawlette pattern knit with fine thread on small needles would make the mantilla style covering.


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## ELareau

I grew up in catholic school so we had to go to mass every day. What was so funny about the whole head covering thing is if we forgot our doily (don't remember what it was called at the time) the nuns would make us use a Kleenex as a head covering. So stupid. 

So I would say - as others have suggested - using a doily pattern but with very fine lace-weight yarn may suit your needs.


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## jasann100

when I was a child we wore hats or scarves, later lace mantilla s, we never wore doilies. This went out in the 1960's am a strict catholic attending all applicable services


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## Karen L

Some of the Mennonites wore a prayer covering anything they prayed. Because you are to be in constant prayer some wore them most of the time. They were made out of very fine netting. I don't think any Catholic would wear one of them. I haven't been a Mennonite for close to 50 years but I still have mine tucked away in my Bible.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

Oh, I was not raised Catholic but raised children in Catholic church from ``1980 on. So that is what the little lace black triangular thing is that i have had in a drawer all these years. If you want it, you can have it I am sure I can still find it if I dig deep enough.


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## MartyCare

I'm Catholic. Women used to wear head coverings, until the Second Vatican Conference in the 1960s. The practice comes from a comment in one of the Epistles. It evolved to where we would have to buy hats, and that helped keep the hat industry (milinary?) in business. If we forgot a hat, we would grab a handkerchief or a disposable tissue (yuk) from our purse. So we would keep a little pouch with a lacy thing. I can't remember what it was called. Basically a round doily. We do not have to do that anymore. Almost nobody wears a hat.

Currently, a few of the more conservative women wear what I would call a mantilla, bought from a church supply store, probably made in China. It's a lace veil, maybe triangle shape. It's meant to be a symbol of humility. I have considered making one. But showing off like that would be the opposite of humility for me, since people know that I knit. They see my variety of stocking hats, a different one every week during the winter. And for me, making something like that for myself would cut down on the charity items I could knit to keep people warm.

I checked at my favorite link for church products, autom dot com, but I didn't find anything. As far as lace products go, First Communion veils for second grade girls are very popular, and baptism blankets and gowns for infants. 

Carol K in OH


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## I.honey

And if you arrived at church and realized you left your mantilla at home, a piece of Kleenex from the bottom of your mom's purse clipped on with a bobby pin would suffice.


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## maisyb

We called the triangular ones mantillas, but I don't recall the round one's name.


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## knittigritti

The item is, indeed, called a mantilla. Before I married, I lived around the corner from the local Catholic Church and used to see several female worshippers(mainly the young, who did not wish to wear a hat) wearing these triangles of lace. One could buy them at a shop almost next door to the Church, along with other religious items.


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## Salsafina

I found this one in Ravelry thought it might suit your needs, but it appears that you have received a number of good suggestions.
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/head-kerchiefs-3


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## DottieH

Since there seem to be so many ideas, and patterns to choose from, can you ask your friend to show you her current head covering, and measure, etc, and go from there. She probably would like one similar to the one you are replacing!


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## obxamom

After second Vatican council they stopped wearing them although I might add it was NEVER discontinued or recommended by the council that this discipline be discontinued. That interpritation started here in USA and others followed suit as well. But the official documents never mention that they recommend discontinue of the chapel veil. This council happened in the 60 you see all kinds of liberation with dress etc perfect time to ditch the head covering. We attend the Latin mass ( no we are not old, we are a young couple with young kids ) and over half the women wear a mantilla. Some of the older women wear the round piece and a few wear hats. And believe it or not we ha e mainly young families and college kids who come and wear them. I do think the pendulum is swinging back a bit. Yes the practice had been used and it comes from scripture that a woman must cover her head when worshiping as a sign of reverence and humility. A womans hair was her pride, her vanity if you will and she was to cover that when in the presence of God. So the tradition continued with the first century Catholics, evolved a bit to the lacy mantillas. As far as making one. My friend made a beautiful shawl knit and uses that as her mantilla.


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## obxamom

You are correct


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## knittigritti

As a non-Catholic Christian, I was interested to read the comment about Vatican II, as I had not realised the the discontinuation of the covering of the head had not been officially sanctioned. Some other faiths, e.g. Islam, Judaism and Sikhism still, of course, require the covering of the head, although this is sometimes confined to one or other gender.


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## Gmaj

We girls in the l940's were instructed in lieu of regular head covering to use a handkerchief, kleenex, notebook paper, any kind of paper and if none of these were avaiable to put our hand on our heads. Can you imagine!


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## martina

In England we wore hats or mantillas , never the round ones. As others said it was discontinued in the 60's. mostly now shawls or scarves are used to cover bare arms and shoulders in Catholic Churches, particularly in Italy. It is kind of you to make one for your friend,whatever shape or style you use.


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## dunnville89

I still have my original mantilla from the early sixties. We did also wear hats and scarves but a head covering was required in church. We also dressed up for church; dresses, pumps, stockings and gloves ala Jackie Kennedy. Loved the look, still do.


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## Anna3703

Being raised a Catholic myself, I know that wearing a head-covering is no longer required by the church. Hasn't been for many years now.


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## Joanie 5

Growing up in the era that used the mantillas etc., I remember them well having attenede Catholic school from grade one through grade ten. If by some chance one of the girls forgot their head piece the nuns quickly made substitutes using a kleenex tissue or a strip of toilet paper attached with a bobby pin. Needless to say we did not often forget our head piece. Through the years I had both kinds but preferred the triangle ones as they made me feel more "grown up". Oh my how things have changed!!!!


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## Daisy72

Just crochet a small triangle.


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## Gumblossom

breeze075 said:


> I'm not Catholic, but I believe it was called a "mantilla"
> 
> There are a few on Ravelry; this may be one of the easier ones:
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


I was a Catholic and you are correct. Ours were triangular shape lace fabric with scaloped edge. The edges would have touched our shoulders. That was in the late 50's-early 60's. They were very popular and we all wore them as we walked to and from Mass. As a child they reminded me of the lace veils beautiful spanish ladies wore.


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## courier770

The head covering requirement was never truly "discontinued" but simply made "optional". Mantilla's and Chapel Veil's most certainly have still been in use, particularly in heavily ethnic parish's. 

As for Jacqueline Kennedy Onasis. She outraged many Catholics by showing up to Mass with "bare" legs. I distinctly remember a photograph of her in a simple black shift, black mantilla, black high heels and no stockings. At the time it was shocking. 

I was Catholic School educated. At any given time we might have to walk across the parking lot to attend a "sudden" Mass - in event of the death of a world or church leader, some natural disaster, etc.. Our school uniform included a matching "tam" and you'd better have it in your book bag at all times. If you didn't, one of the Sisters was posted at the church door with a box of tissues and a hand full of bobby pins!

Mantilla's and Chapel Veils are still sold in the few shops that cater to Catholics and NO not all of them are crafted in China.

Another source of patterns could be the Altar Society of the particular Parish you belong to. These used to be called "Ladies Altar Societies". Many of them have maintained records and patterns from the past. Remember they used to craft all of the Altar Cloths and many of the Priest's vestments.

My late Aunt was always very active in the Altar Society of her parish and I recall her telling me of the many patterns for shawls, mantillas and chapel veils that her group had.


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## Gram arena

We called them chapel caps


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## safepethaven

The round circle of lace that covered just the top of the head for women was a "chapel cap" and had a formal name I can't bring from memory right now. The more formal lace "scarf", triangular style headcovering was a "mantilla" [man tee yah] and was often worn just placed over the head with the pont hanging down the center back, while the two other points fell vertically at the sides of the face. That was a bridal veil style as well years ago.

So rather than try to fashion anything as complicated as a fitted head covering the Pope wears -- the round closefitting one, not the large pointy one -- for women, a simple circle to cover the top of the head, or a larger triangular shape will be acceptable in the mst formal of churches [referred to as "high church"]. Hope this helps.


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## safepethaven

typo; that should have been "point", not pont.


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## mairmie

Attended a Parochial School as a child.Closeby was our R.C. church where we would often drop in for a "visit"If it was
winter time we often had hats on but in warmer weather we could have a mantilla in a pocket to slip on or if one wasn`t available then just a new clean Kleenex would be used. As long as the female head was covered as a mark of "respect"Don`t have info on when or where this tradition began.


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## mousepotato

A lace kerchief. I recall keeping them in the glove compartment of the car for vacations when taking a hat wasn't practical. The requirement to wear a headcovering went away with Vatican II, although some churches have remained strictly Tridentine and still require them. Not a bad thing, considering what one sees in church these days.


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## mjoan44

yes, it was like a doily, but very fine thread. But size 10 or 20 American thread would work and just make a doily about ten inches across. If you just wanted it triangular and not round, just find a shawl pattern and use thread knitting or crocheting to the desired size. I do remember mine.


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## sharonlee

you bring back memories, I'm trying to remember what we
called them, was it chapel caps?


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## MartyCare

Oh, yeah. I forgot about the Bobby Pin. Sigh. I'm glad they are gone, too.


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## lindakindel

I wear a mantilla to mass. My husband converted, & I came back to The Church (praise God) after 40 years. We then were married in The Church. I wore the most fabulous ivory 45 inch mantilla that special day and since then feel compelled to honor God and humble myself before Him by covering my head. 
I thank God everyday for calling us and giving us the grace to hear His call. 
There is a stong movement within the Church: ACTS, Christios, lay Carmelites an increasing number of women are wearing hats and mantillas to mass. The churches are filled with daily communicants. 
This is a up and coming opportunity for talented women to fulfill a need. 
There are a few websites selling lace mantillas. I would be willing to spend a fair price for a special mantilla.


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## SharonT

How thoughtful of you! I am a Catholic and still have my "Chapel Veil" . We had to carry ours with us just in case we needed to go the Mass during school hours! I think The suggestion for searching for Irish lace patterns was a good one. Any triangle shawl that is started and the point would work, keep going until you reach the size you want! Great question, started me thinking, this is a great "on the go" project. I will be interested to see more suggestions.

There is an online store http://www.modestyveils.com/index.html that sells them for a reasonable price.

God Bless


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## Gram arena

Think they were also called "chaplets"


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## Beecher Robertson

The small round ones are Chapel Veils
The triangle ones are mantillas


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## stchorz101

You are correct with Mantilla, I went to Catholic School and if we forgot our beanies for church, they would give you a Mantilla to wear.


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## sharonlee

oh yes, beanies, to go with our uniforms, saddle shoes and
bobbie socks. Are we dating ouselves or what


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

I can knit triangles easily but I cannot crochet a circle that is flat or pretty. Have to hand it to anyone who can. 
Ihave been given a whole lot of crochet thread which needs to find good home. Came to me from Fla where 103 y.o. woman died; she was found to be relative of people in IN thru DNA test cheek swab; when she died they got a whole lot of yarn and crochet old books and patterns and this thread. Some went to art teacher daughter; they knew stuff would be safe with me.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

You are my older sisters' age, 10 yrs older than me. Yes I got you dated. Or else the 11 yr older sister. And I was born 1951.


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## heidisoma

Interesting to see all your comments. I was raised catholic in Europe. My mom and grandma wore hats to church. Not a requirement though because many did not. Children never wore any head coverings. There was never a requirement for head coverings of any kind.


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## dor830

I have one or two of my Moms...in perfect condition. I would be happy to send them to you for your friend. Just let me know at [email protected] PS Haven't a clue how you would knit or crochet one...


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## dor830

I sure remember those days!


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## Maw

Wore that as a you g girl, but in the 60 we stopped!! Not many where that any more!!


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## PATCHER

breeze075 said:


> I'm not Catholic, but I believe it was called a "mantilla"
> 
> There are a few on Ravelry; this may be one of the easier ones:
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


You are correct...it is "mantilla".


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## Avery09

I also grew up in the catholic church when you wore something on your head in church. They were called mantillas. Looked like a triangle piece of lace. I have seen several lace shawls that individuals have shown on this site that remind me of them. I had a black and ivory colored one when I was younger. I would just use one of those patterns and make to the size you wanted.


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## Avery09

I also grew up in the catholic church when you wore something on your head in church. They were called mantillas. Looked like a triangle piece of lace. I have seen several lace shawls that individuals have shown on this site that remind me of them. I had a black and ivory colored one when I was younger. I would just use one of those patterns and make to the size you wanted.


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## valsa

Hi,

i am a catholic and I think any triangular or rectangular scarf is good enough.


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## valsa

hi,

Some help needed here. Would carron simply soft number 4 medium do in place of lana gatto feeling yarn as i am unable to find the latter brand where I stay. i am knitting a cardigan


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## Maryhm

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


These head coverings were actually just different shaped doilies. One round and one rectangular.


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## CarolD

We used to call those chapel veils. They are still available for purchase. Google "chapel veils."


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## deercreek

I had alittle white round one and it always went back in the case when you left the church. But all was lost when I was small. Made me very sad


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## Jokim

heidisoma said:


> Interesting to see all your comments. I was raised catholic in Europe. My mom and grandma wore hats to church. Not a requirement though because many did not. Children never wore any head coverings. There was never a requirement for head coverings of any kind.


Ditto! I would like to add my experience. When we first went to Church in this country, the parishioners were shocked! We didn't have any covering on our heads! Never had to wear anything on our heads in the old country. My mom quickly purchased the appropriate head gear so as not to offend any worshippers in Church. Being Catholic school educated, I remember wearing tams in high school (lower classes wore uniform-matching ones, seniors wore beige ones). I also remember wearing mantillas and circular 'chaplets' which in my recollection were shaped like a shallow inverted bowls, 10" dia., with an raised 1" edge. No one could have predicted that this strongly conservative Roman Catholic Church in the 50-60's would become one of the most liberal churches today. How ironic!


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## safepethaven

Actually it doesn't have to be flat [or pretty]; in fact the 'perfect circle' lace chapel caps usually rippled/fluted around the skull anyway & never sat flat, especially if one had any curl in their hair.

The whole point was a symbol of respect, and if caught short, a clean hankie would do.

Actually, for guests and visitors, they were neither required to wear either head covering, and were not looked upon in any negative way.

For adult women they at times were offered a 'loaner' lace circle but were not forced to wear it. Most little girls were not required to cover their heads either but once past the age of about 12, our "high-church" practices would have put a gentle little note in the next week bulletin to remind the parents to "pack their head coverings in their purses". For so many months of the year near Chicago, our heads were covered with warm hats or scarves anyway!

Warm memories of childhood in a much better place & time than where I've been, here, for way too long.


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## baskets69

This was the norm in the Catholic Church in the 1950's and early 1960's, then they said women did not need their heads covered.


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## raqeth

obxamom said:


> After second Vatican council they stopped wearing them although I might add it was NEVER discontinued or recommended by the council that this discipline be discontinued. That interpritation started here in USA and others followed suit as well. But the official documents never mention that they recommend discontinue of the chapel veil. This council happened in the 60 you see all kinds of liberation with dress etc perfect time to ditch the head covering. We attend the Latin mass ( no we are not old, we are a young couple with young kids ) and over half the women wear a mantilla. Some of the older women wear the round piece and a few wear hats. And believe it or not we ha e mainly young families and college kids who come and wear them. I do think the pendulum is swinging back a bit. Yes the practice had been used and it comes from scripture that a woman must cover her head when worshiping as a sign of reverence and humility. A womans hair was her pride, her vanity if you will and she was to cover that when in the presence of God. So the tradition continued with the first century Catholics, evolved a bit to the lacy mantillas. As far as making one. My friend made a beautiful shawl knit and uses that as her mantilla.


Thank you for clarifying this CORRECTLY..... I was about to start writing this and thought to myself, patience, keep reading... And so I was thrilled that you wrote this! 
I am Catholic and also wear my veil. I am so blessed to have my grandmother's veil that she bought in Spain. Spain is known for their breathtaking veils! 
The word in English is veil and in Spanish mantilla. In Mexico you will see the ladies wear a rebozo which is more similar to a rectangular shawl and cover their head with this.
This has been an enlightening thread, thank you


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## Kadydee

We called them chapel veils.
Believe you can still purchase at a catholic supply shop.


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## andietom

ELareau said:


> I grew up in catholic school so we had to go to mass every day. What was so funny about the whole head covering thing is if we forgot our doily (don't remember what it was called at the time) the nuns would make us use a Kleenex as a head covering. So stupid.
> 
> So I would say - as others have suggested - using a doily pattern but with very fine lace-weight yarn may suit your needs.


oh my--I do remember using bobby pins to secure a kleenex on top of our heads when we made an unexpected visit to a church and were hatless or without the chapel veil or doilie cap--although I think there was always one of those in my coat pocket! Glad those days are gone.

Lots of good pattern resources have been suggested. Good luck finding one that works for your friend.


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## safepethaven

I suppose I should "confess" about my contributions to this thread; I grew up in the Episcopal church in the mid-west, so not technically Roman Catholic. We were referred to as "Catholic-lite" [as in light beer when that term was first coined]. I'm not offended-I thought it was clever.


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## Patty Sutter

5mmdpns said:


> I know that many many different Mennonites wear them. I was not aware that Roman Catholics also wore them. The cardinals wear them when they are in their official duties. Pope will wear a white one. Zoe


The Vatican colclave in the 60's changed a lot of the rules. Suddenly Mass could be said in the local language instead of Latin. Women were no longer required to cover their heads, and other changes. While not required, my mother never went bareheaded.
I can remember when I or my sisters would forget out demi-veil and had to use dad's fresh handkerchief.
It didn't actually have to be a demi-veil, a hat of any sort was acceptable. Mom wore hats with a small veil on the front (think 1940's)


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## susannahp

I also am a Catholic and we wore a kerchief , I am 66 and I don't think I have ever seen anything but hats or a kerchief ...


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## Elizabethan

This is what we wore back in the 60's I still have my black one.



Hilary4 said:


> This is the size and style I recall - my mother and I needed them when we toured Europe in 1969:


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## marion07

Those were truly the "good old days". Wish we cou


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## marion07

Those were truly the "good old days". Wish we cou


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## mizmel

Your question brought back a long forgotten memory. One day when my cousin and I were "tweens" we wanted to stop in for a quick visit in our(Catholic) church. Not having any head covering (mantilla or chapel veil) we picked large maple leaves and put them on our heads. How strange we must have looked to anyone in the church that day but we weren't going to risk commiting a sin (?)--venial or otherwise! Those nuns taught us well.


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## bonbf3

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


Deercreek,

I just googled it - it's called a chapel veil. If you google

knit crochet chapel veil

you will get websites and patterns. Or you can go to Ravelry.com I heard they have a lot of patterns for chapel veils!!


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## GrannyDeb

Anna3703 said:


> Being raised a Catholic myself, I know that wearing a head-covering is no longer required by the church. Hasn't been for many years now.


Why is it not required now, do you know?


----------



## martina

GrannyDeb said:


> Why is it not required now, do you know?


Because the head coverings became more distracting than the hair they were meant to cover. So we were told at school.


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## MaidInBedlam

If you take a good look at your friend's scarf, you can probably make up a pattern yourself.


deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


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## dlarkin

Question? Why on earth were women required to do this? Was showing hair a bad thing?


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## GrannyDeb

martina said:


> Because the head coverings became more distracting than the hair they were meant to cover. So we were told at school.


We always wore hats to church when I was young and I was told it was showing respect to God. I made a lace cowl to wear this winter now I will be looking for a mantilla pattern to knit for summer. I have seen women in the baptist churches wearing beautiful hats too. Maybe because woman are supposed to dress as a bride when we are to go before God, is another reason why we wear vials in the catholic church


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## safepethaven

It was a practice/symbol of respect.


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## Jokim

GrannyDeb said:


> when we are to go before God, is another reason why we wear vials in the catholic church


'Wear vials in the Catholic church'? What are these vials? I've never heard of them. Please explain. Do you perhaps mean small containers/bottles of holy water?


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## safepethaven

veils, not vials


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## WelshWooly

I've just passed an interesting half hour googling for patterns but hey don't seem to exist outside of the few on Ravelry. There are many places you can buy mantillas but I only found one pattern to make one and that is crochet. The URL is below. Under that are two sites for making them from ready made lace and sewing. .

Crochet
<url>http://www.etsy.com/listing/87112815/vintage-crochet-pattern-mantilla-veil</url

Sewing.
<url>http://www.ehow.com/how_5192474_make-mantilla.html</url>
http://ponderedinmyheart.typepad.co...t/2010/10/how-to-make-a-lace-chapel-veil.html


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## WelshWooly

Veils or mantillas not vials. I think that was a typo.


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## GrannyDeb

WelshWooly said:


> Veils or mantillas not vials. I think that was a typo.


Yep


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## Mercygirl76

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


I am Catholic and a product of a Catholic education LOL. I definitely remember the Sisters slapping them on our heads. I don't remember what the small ones were called, but I remember getting to wear the shawl-like ones, it is called a mantilla, when making my First Communion. Since I was a post-Vatican II kid, those quickly fell "out of fashion" and I don't remember having to cover my head in church from about the fourth grade on.

I think a really pretty, lacy doily pattern for a small circular head covering would be fine or a very lacy shawlette or Spanish Mantilla pattern for and larger veil-like one would work. I would do it in a cotton so that it can be washed. I remember washing mine by hand on Friday night and letting it air dry to wear on Sunday. (Along with polishing the patent leather Mary-Janes with petroleum jelly...Oops, I'm telling my age now!!)


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## Mercygirl76

mizmel said:


> Your question brought back a long forgotten memory. One day when my cousin and I were "tweens" we wanted to stop in for a quick visit in our(Catholic) church. Not having any head covering (mantilla or chapel veil) we picked large maple leaves and put them on our heads. How strange we must have looked to anyone in the church that day but we weren't going to risk commiting a sin (?)--venial or otherwise! Those nuns taught us well.


Haha. Back then, if you went into Church without a head covering, it may have been a mortal sin as far as the Sisters were concerned!!!! They did indeed teach us well in so many things!


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## DollieD

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


They were mantillas.
I haven't seen them worn for many years, except by older parishioneers. Younger females wore small versions of the mantilla.
I suppose if you looked for 'mantilla patterns' you would find a good one for your friend.
( I am not Catholic, but while living overseas, I was taught Catchism, so I could teach the young Catholic children in our community.)


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## Mercygirl76

Hilary4 said:


> This is the size and style I recall - my mother and I needed them when we toured Europe in 1969:


This is exactly like the ones my mom, my sisters and I had as a child, except ours were white.


----------



## piecemaker

Gram arena said:


> Think they were also called "chaplets"


No, they are called chapel veils (the small round ones) or mantilla for the larger ones. A chaplet is a small rosary, prayer beads, which is prayed in honor of God or to ask for certain intentions. There are many different chaplets. I run a rosary guild in our parish and make chaplets and rosaries. We sell them to raise money to send rosaries to missions overseas.

I am a Catholic convert and wear a mantilla to mass. It is an act of humility and reverence to Jesus' real presence in the Eucharist. I think making your friend a chapel veil or mantilla would be a wonderful gift of love and friendship and would be a cherished gift.


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## shepherd

As a Presbyterian Girl Scout I attended many masses in the 40's and 50's - The Catholic girls had to go (at summer camp) so we tagged along. We usually put a hanky on our heads - back then all girls carried hankies - no Kleenex! I now visit a friend who is a nun in an Abbey and the visitors there do not wear head-coverings, even if they are Catholic.


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## lornownillie

That sure brings back memories. I too am Catholic and went to a Catholic school. Sometimes we were required to attend church during school hours and we were supposed to bring our hats. One day I forgot mine. The nun was very angry and she took a Kleenex (unused) and pinned it to my hair. I swear the marks from the bobbypin are still in my head, she was so rough. I have nothing but bad memories from these nuns. I swear they all hated children!!!


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## Jacqueline M Gray

We call them 'Mantillas' in UK, but don't see them these days


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## rasputin

ELareau said:


> I grew up in catholic school so we had to go to mass every day. What was so funny about the whole head covering thing is if we forgot our doily (don't remember what it was called at the time) the nuns would make us use a Kleenex as a head covering. So stupid.
> 
> So I would say - as others have suggested - using a doily pattern but with very fine lace-weight yarn may suit your needs.


Yes, I remember wearing a kleenex if we forgot our hat/doily.


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## Aravis

We called the little ones "Chapel caps".


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## Jedmo

I can remember, you never went to church without a head covering. When push came to shove a Kleenex would work. My how times have changed.


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## bonbf3

dlarkin said:


> Question? Why on earth were women required to do this? Was showing hair a bad thing?


They weren't covering their hair. It is a sign of humility, of submission to God. It is a personal choice, not required.


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## sibergirl

copper wire-n- beads said:


> I think the word you are looking for is Matilda. It's a lace scarf, usually triangle. You might also try looking for Christian head covering.


It's actually called a mantilla, and originated in Spain. http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Al5441Z_CrA27HIBgGSeoa2bvZx4?p=mantilla&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-788 They are usually made of very fine lace that drapes well. Mantillas can be triangular, square, circular or oval.

We used to call the little doilies chapel veils http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7mrX97VRzlEAMxBXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGFjdG4Da2V5YnJkBGRhdGFTcmMDZ29zc2lwBG91dGNtA3NyY2gEcnNwbnMDbmV3BHNlYwNzZWFyY2gEdDEDc3JjaEJ4BHQyA3N1Z2dMc3QEdDMDcXJ5BHQzcG9zAzAEdDQDc2xjdA--?p=chapel+veil+doily&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-788


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## Jessica-Jean

Whitwillhands said:


> This is a nice one
> 
> http://www.artfire.com/ext/shop/studio/VelleMere/1/1/43398//


It's a lacy kippah for girls!!


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## sibergirl

Sorry for the double posting.


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## Jessica-Jean

ELareau said:


> I grew up in catholic school so we had to go to mass every day. What was so funny about the whole head covering thing is if we forgot our doily (don't remember what it was called at the time) the nuns would make us use a Kleenex as a head covering. So stupid.
> 
> So I would say - as others have suggested - using a doily pattern but with very fine lace-weight yarn may suit your needs.


Thanks for the memory! I never forgot my mantilla, but I remember seeing others with a Kleenex pinned to their puffy hair-dos!


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## Aunt Nay

As a girl I remember many lovely lacy head coverings.

http://www.coatsandclark.com/Crafts/Crochet/Projects/HomeDec/LC1554+Mantilla+Doily.htm
http://glor-crochetgalore.blogspot.com/2010/08/three-sided-doily-doily-of-month-august.html
http://www.karensvariety.com/NEWSLETTER/Patterns/ScarfH.htm


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## Shelly51

I'm Episcopal and we wore hats also, and we had to have our shoulders covered too.


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## lindakindel

my husband worked in Italy in the early 70's. the Italian ladies wore body size shawls over their heads and bodys at daily mass in the villages he visited.


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## piecemaker

lindakindel said:


> my husband worked in Italy in the early 70's. the Italian ladies wore body size shawls over their heads and bodys at daily mass in the villages he visited.


Sounds lovely.


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## xta018

I too had to wear "chapel veils" when I was in school. These were the small doiles you referred to. You held them in place with a bobby pin.


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## normancha

deercreek said:


> When I went to church we were never allowed to have our head uncovered . We had just round white "things" they sat on top of our heads. And as you got older you wore the shape of a small shawl. I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a pattern like that, probably crochet Thsnks a friend is very strict catholic and was looking for one as hers is falling apart! Jodi


I'm Catholic and I remember Mother and I used to cover our heads with silk or linen scarves. She also used to crochet a piece that looked like the modern wimples. I knitted one for a Muslim coworker with a beautiful yarn of 50% mulberry silk and 50% merino wool. I ordered the pattern and yarn from www.fiddlesticksknitting.com. It's easy to make.


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## normancha

PeggyAnn said:


> As a Catholic, I wore either the mantilla or a lace piece that does look like a doilie. Usually these were black, but I have seen the mantillas in white also. Any lace covering that is light weight would be lovely and appropriate. As a note, we stopped wearing them sometime in the 60's but I've noticed a few people wearing them lately. And, of course, we all wore hats back then too


Some of the Apostolic Catholic (Not Roman) women still cover their heads even during meetings. I still have a black and silver and a black and gold mantillas that my late brother brought to Mother from Madrid. She's been gone for 36 years now, and him for 23 years. Also a beautiful black with pink roses wool and silk scarf he brought her from Hong Kong.


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## kip

This discussion brought back memories! I too would use a Kleenex when making an unexpected visit to church. But was happy with the changes after Vatican 2. My husband and I have travelled in our 5th wheel camper since we retired, usually to Florida, but one year we went to Texas. And we always try to find a church for Sunday Mass. So in the Houston area we found a church that turnrd out to be a traditional Latin Mass. A sign at the door said women should dress modestly and have their heads covered. I was wearing slacks and had no hat, so as we were about to leave, a woman gave me a mantilla to borrow, and said we'd be "allowed" in with slacks rather than a long skirt. So we stayed. My husband told everyone I was going to hell because I wore pants to church! (That said, I do think people dress too casually, like jeans or even short shorts.)


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## normancha

bonbf3 said:


> They weren't covering their hair. It is a sign of humility, of submission to God. It is a personal choice, not required.


For the same reason brides wear a veil and some even cover their faces with it, which is a Muslim custom (including the wearing of the white gown).


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## normancha

kip said:


> This discussion brought back memories! I too would use a Kleenex when making an unexpected visit to church. But was happy with the changes after Vatican 2. My husband and I have travelled in our 5th wheel camper since we retired, usually to Florida, but one year we went to Texas. And we always try to find a church for Sunday Mass. So in the Houston area we found a church that turnrd out to be a traditional Latin Mass. A sign at the door said women should dress modestly and have their heads covered. I was wearing slacks and had no hat, so as we were about to leave, a woman gave me a mantilla to borrow, and said we'd be "allowed" in with slacks rather than a long skirt. So we stayed. My husband told everyone I was going to hell because I wore pants to church! (That said, I do think people dress too casually, like jeans or even short shorts.)


I agree with you. I don't wear a hat or a mantilla anymore, but I wear a dress, shoulders covered, and nylons.


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## Briegeen

I grew up in Ireland & lots of women, including my mum, wore mantillas certainly from the end of the 50s & well into the 70s. When women went on pilgrimage to Rome, Fatima or Lourdes they brought back mantillas & the practice spread due to that.


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## GrannyDeb

Thank you these are lovely.



Aunt Nay said:


> As a girl I remember many lovely lacy head coverings.
> 
> http://www.coatsandclark.com/Crafts/Crochet/Projects/HomeDec/LC1554+Mantilla+Doily.htm
> http://glor-crochetgalore.blogspot.com/2010/08/three-sided-doily-doily-of-month-august.html
> http://www.karensvariety.com/NEWSLETTER/Patterns/ScarfH.htm


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## Perlaelsa

It is a veil, very traditional in Spain and Italy, they call it mantilla, it is made of tulle with embroidery. The nuns taught us how to do them. During school year has to be one of our projects.


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## Donalda

Thanks for your post. I remember back then when the Mass was said in Latin. I had a missal - Latin on one side, English on the opposite. I really miss those days. Somehow, I felt more like I was attending a real religious service.


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## normancha

Donalda said:


> Thanks for your post. I remember back then when the Mass was said in Latin. I had a missal - Latin on one side, English on the opposite. I really miss those days. Somehow, I felt more like I was attending a real religious service.


Me too. I once went with friends to a Christmas Service in a Lutheran Church in Ridgecrest CA, and to a Requiem Mass in an Orthodox Greek Church in Northridge CA. It made me remember Catholic Mass when I was a child in Mexico.


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## redpaws

I try to always cover my head at mass (age 48), I have used lace head coverings, but as I have short hair I now get around "pinning" the lace by wearing very lacy, berets I have knit and chrocheted with white baby type (very thin and light ) yarn, I tend to look for a very very opean lacy pattern.


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## obxamom

AMEN!!!! Now the mystery, the reverence has been all but lost! The short skirts, flip flops, tank tops, gum chewing. Playing on the phone during mass. I was told that we are attending the eternal wedding feast of the King or kings. Who would want to dress down.? We got so fed up we started looking and found a church in our area that says the Latin mass. The Gregorian chant, the reverence the awe was inspiring and refreshing. You dont see people dressing inmodestly they are revrent their children behave at any given time we will 20 plus servers. They dont rush out after communion they stay after mass is over and pray. We finally felt like we were home!


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## normancha

obxamom said:


> AMEN!!!! Now the mystery, the reverence has been all but lost! The short skirts, flip flops, tank tops, gum chewing. Playing on the phone during mass. I was told that we are attending the eternal wedding feast of the King or kings. Who would want to dress down.? We got so fed up we started looking and found a church in our area that says the Latin mass. The Gregorian chant, the reverence the awe was inspiring and refreshing. You dont see people dressing inmodestly they are revrent their children behave at any given time we will 20 plus servers. They dont rush out after communion they stay after mass is over and pray. We finally felt like we were home!


That's how I like to worship. Amar y respetar a DIOS sobre todas las cosas= To Love AND Respect GOD above everything.


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## kaixixang

Only the videos or DVDs can record SOME of the experience if you cannot leave the house or other needed room. I just got a nice education following the nine (9) pages we've generated so far. Thanks for the opportunity to research and read up on one of life's experiences.


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## jannetie

MartyCare said:


> If we forgot a hat, we would grab a handkerchief or a disposable tissue (yuk) from our purse. So we would keep a little pouch with a lacy thing. I can't remember what it was called. Basically a round doily. We do not have to do that anymore. Almost nobody wears a hat.
> 
> Carol K in OH


I think the little round things were called chapel caps. I, too, remember having to use a tissue, and more than once, yuk. In Catholic HS, we had to attend Mass in the gym every first Friday of the month, and everyone had the same veil we'd gotten through the school. That's where I got to wear that tissue on many occasions..


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## ckg1153

I have a lovely pattern called a Chapel Cap that is triangular crocheted with Size 30 crochet thread using the basic knot stitch. It is pretty beat up (from 1964) I think. Will try to make a picture of it with the instructions.

I scanned the picture but can't seem to get it on there. It's in my file so if you'll email me, I think I can send it direct that way.


----------



## Jessica-Jean

ckg1153 said:


> I have a lovely pattern called a Chapel Cap that is triangular crocheted with Size 30 crochet thread using the basic knot stitch. It is pretty beat up (from 1964) I think. Will try to make a picture of it with the instructions.
> 
> I scanned the picture but can't seem to get it on there. It's in my file so if you'll email me, I think I can send it direct that way.


You got it on KP just fine. Twice even! However, if it's the original that you're scanning, could you please smooth down the tear at the bottom and scan it again? There's a bit of the pattern that's obscured.

Thank you.


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## Friederike

http://www.modestclothes.com/catholic.html

Maybe this site will help. It has good pictures of Mantillas.


----------



## Jokim

Donalda said:


> Thanks for your post. I remember back then when the Mass was said in Latin. I had a missal - Latin on one side, English on the opposite. I really miss those days. Somehow, I felt more like I was attending a real religious service.


You can still attend a traditional (Tridentine) Mass. Most dioceses have them said at certain churches. It has not been done away with. You just have to research where and when it is said. It is conducted in English and Latin with the incense and processing et al.
Women mostly wear modest clothing and a head covering. Communion is taken at the rail, just like in the old days. I also miss the Latin Mass. It was beautiful to listen to. The music was a work of art, heavenly choirs. Very dignified and respectful. When it was finished, you felt that you have been in the presence of God.


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## leeny6

mantilla's are still used at the Traditional Latin Rite Mass. I attend one in New Jersey. White is for purity and worn by young girls after the make their First Holy Communion and up until marriage. After that black is worn. However, with all the beautiful scarves out there I have seen more and more ladies using them instead of mantillas. They wear ones that are light in fabric/fibers and wide enough to cover from the bottom of the neck to over the top of the head. they wrap each end over the opposite shoulder. The scarf stays in place much nicer and if the have small children with them it seems harder to pull off. I have seen many beautiful scarf patterns that would make beautiful mantillas


----------



## Jokim

obxamom said:


> AMEN!!!! Now the mystery, the reverence has been all but lost! The short skirts, flip flops, tank tops, gum chewing. Playing on the phone during mass. I was told that we are attending the eternal wedding feast of the King or kings. Who would want to dress down.? We got so fed up we started looking and found a church in our area that says the Latin mass. The Gregorian chant, the reverence the awe was inspiring and refreshing. You dont see people dressing inmodestly they are revrent their children behave at any given time we will 20 plus servers. They dont rush out after communion they stay after mass is over and pray. We finally felt like we were home!


Amen!!


----------



## Helen E

I used to wear them as a child there called a mantilla. Theres a pattern on Rowen site for a shawllette which is the same thing.

rhttp://www.knitrowan.com/designs-and-patterns/patterns/mantilla-shawlette


----------



## Mary Angela

Doubledee said:


> I grew up in that era. And yes, women had to wear something on their heads in church, whether it be a scarf or cap or hat on their heads. There was probably a name for the round, doily like piece of lace , but I can't remember it. They were bobby pinned on, and were so light they didn't weigh down your hair. Mine was black. It was like a doily. I also had a larger triangular one called a mantilla in black. You can sometimes still find an original in thrift stores.


My experiences were much the same as yours and we called the small light doily one a "chapel veil". There was no veil ( over your face ) to it but that is what we called it. You are right, they were very lightweight.


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## valo

I also was raised in the catholic church. We called the small round head covers chapel veils. We also wore a net covering called whimsies. Some of them had little tiny bows or flowers on them.


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## Shdy990

Episcopalians wore them too. Are they different from what the Jewish men wear?


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## Jessica-Jean

Just saw this, and thought it's timely:
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-176513-1.html


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## martina

Jessica-Jean said:


> Just saw this, and thought it's timely:
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-176513-1.html


Thank you. These are beautiful.


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## La la patti

I wore a mantilla as a child ,but havent worn any head covering to church since the late 1960s. We wore white and adults wor black. I can remember forgetting mine and pleating a Kleenex and pinning it on my head. We all would do this if we forgot as we never entered the church without something on our heads.


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## Augustgran

boy does that bring back memories!! my grandma and grandpa were strict Roman Catholics and the one time I forgot to bring a hat for church so she actually took the doliy from under the bedroom lamp and pinned it on my head! I was MORTIFIED I cried all the way to church .After that I would never stay over at their house on Saturday nights because I was afraid she make me wear than d%$mn thing again!
That is probably why I still hate wearing hats,or scarves on my head.


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## Elin

I certainly remember wearing head-coverings to Mass. The mantilla or triangular headwear was made of a lightweight lace or netting. If you're going to knit or crochet one, I hope that it doesn't have too much weight to it because then one's hairdo will become a "hair don't." Good luck.


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## jannetie

valo said:


> I also was raised in the catholic church. We called the small round head covers chapel veils. We also wore a net covering called whimsies. Some of them had little tiny bows or flowers on them.


These were the things I liked - so much I wish I still had a few of them! I had them in black and red, some with velvet dots, some with bows. I always wanted one with rhinestones but don't think I ever got one. They're also called birdcage veils.


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## lvchocl8nknitting

breeze075 said:


> I'm not Catholic, but I believe it was called a "mantilla"
> 
> There are a few on Ravelry; this may be one of the easier ones:
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


I apologize for responding without reading the next 9 pages of post so I run the risk of repeating, but "mantilla" is indeed the original Spanish version of this article of clothing--and who was much more Catholic than the early Spaniards?


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## Alto53

What an odd coincidence, I just received this in an email from someone who doesn't participate here! (Forgive me if this is a duplicate, you certainly got a lot of responses!!)

http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


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## Jessica-Jean

Alto53 said:


> What an odd coincidence, I just received this in an email from someone who doesn't participate here! (Forgive me if this is a duplicate, you certainly got a lot of responses!!)
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/half-circle-chapel-veil


Unfortunately, that pattern's vanished. All that remains seems to be the Ravelry page.


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## lvchocl8nknitting

Jessica-Jean said:


> Unfortunately, that pattern's vanished. All that remains seems to be the Ravelry page.


Even her blog is "gone." Hmmm.

Here's one (scroll down)
http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEss12/FEATss12EK.php


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

It is so very very simple to knit a triangular scarf... or enlarge into a shawl. Just cast on 3 stiches, knit every row adding on 1 more stitch at end of each row.

I started doing this with that very hairy specialty yarn eyelash or whatever, think I got the pattern off of a ball of that. Then I told lady opening yarn shop in Clinton, MI how to do it. Then she got in good selection of the yarn in red and black, our school colors and I made my kids scarves they actually wore and asked to learn how to knit...maybe 10 rows all knit of red, then same number of rows of black for school colors scarf good in winter and summer. 

I have made the shawls in handspun combined with synthetic for color (used our own sheep's white wool) and the first year I took one to Shepherd's Weekend Auction it was very popular as a fundraiser. Copycats took over from there and it never sold as well again. Actually I never wore a shawl but sure did enjoy knitting them. It ws the Laura Militzer Bryant type combination of yarns and weights and colors haphazardly which wa so much fun. I left a long tail at end of each row and added on new yarn for each successive row unless knitting several rows of one color in a stripe. 

The weight and yarn I would suggest for mantilla or summer shawl would be that shiny pretty ladder-like yarn abailable in many beautiful colors, variegated. It is fun to work with and would make a good weight to drape over head.

I am looking, looking for the mantilla. Actually the lady send me her address privately. If you would like to send her one of your mothers I am sure se would really be appreciative. Her3e is what I wrote down, as my printer needs ink and will not print: 

(address removed)


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## Laddie

We would pop a Kleenex on our heads in a pinch. That was also followed by detention.


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## Laddie

Back in the day, we would pop a Kleenex on, that was quickly followed by a detention.


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## knitting2day

I remember having to wear one when I was young, when we went to mass. You hardly see them now. There is a woman in our parish that was studying to be a nun, but she no longer is in the convent. She does always wear something on her head at church like we used to when I was little. Its like a lacey bandana or scarf on her head out of respect from her convent days. It just didnt work out for her at the end to become a nun.


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## heidisoma

baskets69 said:


> This was the norm in the Catholic Church in the 1950's and early 1960's, then they said women did not need their heads covered.


As I see from all your comments it was the norm in North America. Certainly never saw any of that in Germany. 
I have a question. Why do you miss the latin mass so much. How many of you actually understood the meaning of all the words that were being said and sung in latin. Certainly children did not. I was part of the church choir for 10 years from 1960 and to 1970. High mass which we called it was at 10 on Sunday mornings. Procession, latin mass was sung by the choir.
I honestly think it was time the church spoke in the language of everybody. Much easier to pray if you understand all the words and therefore they have meaning. Not just repeating sounds.


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## raqeth

obxamom said:


> AMEN!!!! Now the mystery, the reverence has been all but lost! The short skirts, flip flops, tank tops, gum chewing. Playing on the phone during mass. I was told that we are attending the eternal wedding feast of the King or kings. Who would want to dress down.? We got so fed up we started looking and found a church in our area that says the Latin mass. The Gregorian chant, the reverence the awe was inspiring and refreshing. You dont see people dressing inmodestly they are revrent their children behave at any given time we will 20 plus servers. They dont rush out after communion they stay after mass is over and pray. We finally felt like we were home!


Thank you! Amen! I say also! I love Latin Mass!


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## piecemaker

heidisoma said:


> As I see from all your comments it was the norm in North America. Certainly never saw any of that in Germany.
> I have a question. Why do you miss the latin mass so much. How many of you actually understood the meaning of all the words that were being said and sung in latin. Certainly children did not. I was part of the church choir for 10 years from 1960 and to 1970. High mass which we called it was at 10 on Sunday mornings. Procession, latin mass was sung by the choir.
> I honestly think it was time the church spoke in the language of everybody. Much easier to pray if you understand all the words and therefore they have meaning. Not just repeating sounds.


I am a convert of 25 years and did not grow up with the Latin Mass but I have been and sometimes go to the Tridentine (Latin) Mass. I think it is very Beautiful and certainly more reverent than the english counterpart, not that there is anything wrong with the english (Norvus Ordo). But the Latin Mass does call my soul to a more peaceful presence with God. With the noisy english Mass I am much more distracted. They are both certainly beautiful and the same, yet very different. I do wear a mantilla to Mass no matter which Mass I attend which is an act of humility and reverence to God.


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## Hilary4

heidisoma said:


> As I see from all your comments it was the norm in North America. Certainly never saw any of that in Germany.
> I have a question. Why do you miss the latin mass so much. How many of you actually understood the meaning of all the words that were being said and sung in latin. Certainly children did not. I was part of the church choir for 10 years from 1960 and to 1970. High mass which we called it was at 10 on Sunday mornings. Procession, latin mass was sung by the choir.
> I honestly think it was time the church spoke in the language of everybody. Much easier to pray if you understand all the words and therefore they have meaning. Not just repeating sounds.


I do so agree with you - I have been in the Choir at the Catholic Cathedral here for nearly 40 years (I was 15 when I joined - don't tell me I can't stick at something!) and I truly love some of the Latin motets and Gregorian chant.
But recently an elderly parishioner died and left instructions that she wanted a full Latin Mass for her funeral Mass. It was certainly the real deal (we have one priest here who says a Latin Mass early on a Sunday morning for those who would rather attend that - funny thing is he was a Presbyterian minister before he switched and became a Catholic priest), all the responses and the singing were in Latin and at communion time the servers brought out prie dieu, because our altar rails are long gone, and used the paten under our chins to catch any loose fragments of the host. I had completely forgotten about those. But it was all theatre - it didn't make me feel close to God at all. I knew where I was in the Mass, because that doesn't change, but the prayers were meaningless to me - and most others attending I'll bet. And what the non-Catholics thought is anybody's guess.


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## run4fittness

I am not a Catholic but attending many Catholic weddings and funerals growing up in a strong Catholic community. We wore small circular lace head coverings out of respect to the church we were attending. I don't remember what they were called but they were a lot like a small lace doily. I don't see why you cannot use a small doily pattern to make one for your friend.


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## cside

I believe they are called Mantillas-sheer lace type triangular head coverings


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## Patty Sutter

I have to say that as a kid I truly appreciated the switch to English. I could never understand more than a word here and there. Boy does Mass seem to drag when you don't understand what the priest is"blabbering" about! 
I never minded the veil as a symbol of reverence, but was glad to loose the Latin.


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## Jessica-Jean

run4fittness said:


> ... I don't see why you cannot use a small doily pattern to make one for your friend.


I agree. So, I searched on Ravelry for 
free
with photo
round
lace
English
and came up with several hundred possibilities, some knit, some crochet:
http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/search#photo=yes&language=en&availability=free&pa=circle-shaped%2B%2Blace&page=2&sort=best&query=doily&view=captioned_thumbs

It seems to me that many of them, done with fine crochet cotton, could serve as a head-covering.


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## grandmann

Mercygirl76 said:


> Haha. Back then, if you went into Church without a head covering, it may have been a mortal sin as far as the Sisters were concerned!!!! They did indeed teach us well in so many things!


Then what happen to the nuns, they no longer wear there head dress neither. The nuns of today I wonder if they have a habit? I understand why they needed to change but I wish they wore some sort of a uniform that you know that they are a nun.


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## obxamom

Well to each is own. Thank God we have both the masses. Different forms of expression! I know what is going on and so do my children because we have missals and we read along with the readings and Prayers. We take the time to teach our children the mass and how to pray the mass. My 8 year old can recite the Sanctus and the is learning many others agnus Dei the Pater Nostra. etc along with the English. You get out of the mass what you out into.it. I suppose. If you just sit there and not participate then you won't get much but if you read along in the missal, follow the readings and the prayers then you should get much out of it. I find it much easier to enter fully I to the mass when done in Latin when done reverently. Its not theatricals either. It is our outward expression of love and worship to our God. Kneeling and receiving communion is done out of humility. To each is own like I said but I'm.glad that the Latin mass is still around for those of us who wish to attend!


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## obxamom

Depends on the order. The Dominican. The sisters of. Charity, the Carmelite nuns all still wear habits.


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## heidisoma

I was in the choir from age 9 to 19. After that I came to North America. Had to learn the language. I guess if the mass would still have been in Latin I could have continued being part of a church choir. At least would have known the words. Lol



Hilary4 said:


> I do so agree with you - I have been in the Choir at the Catholic Cathedral here for nearly 40 years (I was 15 when I joined - don't tell me I can't stick at something!) and I truly love some of the Latin motets and Gregorian chant.
> But recently an elderly parishioner died and left instructions that she wanted a full Latin Mass for her funeral Mass. It was certainly the real deal (we have one priest here who says a Latin Mass early on a Sunday morning for those who would rather attend that - funny thing is he was a Presbyterian minister before he switched and became a Catholic priest), all the responses and the singing were in Latin and at communion time the servers brought out prie dieu, because our altar rails are long gone, and used the paten under our chins to catch any loose fragments of the host. I had completely forgotten about those. But it was all theatre - it didn't make me feel close to God at all. I knew where I was in the Mass, because that doesn't change, but the prayers were meaningless to me - and most others attending I'll bet. And what the non-Catholics thought is anybody's guess.


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## Hilary4

obxamom said:


> Depends on the order. The Dominican. The sisters of. Charity, the Carmelite nuns all still wear habits.


The Dominicans here don't - some of them are very sharply dressed these days - you would only know they are Sisters if you know them personally as I do.
Little Sisters of the Poor all wear habits and veils but the Mercy Sisters are all in mufti too.


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## Hilary4

obxamom said:


> Kneeling and receiving communion is done out of humility. To each is own like I said but I'm.glad that the Latin mass is still around for those of us who wish to attend!


I have the utmost reverence for receiving communion, but I believe it is God's intention to feed us spiritually as adults, which for me doesn't include someone else placing the host on my tongue. Jesus didn't place the bread in the mouths of the apostles.


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## kiwiananz

Head covers have not been worn in the Catholic church for over twenty or more years.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

Here in Adrian Michigan USA we have the Dominican Sisters Motherhouse where they come when elderly. No wonder I never see any nun outfits if Dominicans don't wear them. They come here to die, at Siena Heights University. We have these obituaries all the time in our Adrian Daily Telegram, for nuns we have never heard of before or seen, who die here not twelve miles from my home. 
Sometimes at Detroit Metropolitan Airport I will see nuns that look like nuns used to look, wearing the habit like in Sound of Music. I am not sure what order they are but occasionally see them pictured on t.v. I mean, these people from near Ann Arbor, Michigan fly in to Detroit Metro (DTW) in the middle of the night, with other nuns joyously happily picking them up. I wish I had family who acted like they do, they look lucky also to have the money they spend on airfare from who knows where.


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## kathycam

It seems I remember Jackie Kennedy always wearing a mantilla (lace triangle) to church, even though she always wore hats on other occasions. I think you only need to make a small triangular shawl to have it. Hopefully, you post a picture when it is finished.


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## obxamom

Hilary4 said:


> I have the utmost reverence for receiving communion, but I believe it is God's intention to feed us spiritually as adults, which for me doesn't include someone else placing the host on my tongue. Jesus didn't place the bread in the mouths of the apostles.


Yes God feeds us. But let me ask you if God was standing in front of you would you stand or fall on your knees? At the name of Jesus every knee shall bend. Even at the English mass you are in essence still being fed by the priest or extraordinary minister. You are coming up with your hands out and waiting for that person to place not the host but Jesus the living God the living word the bread of life in your hands you don't just go up and dip your hand in and take what you want. Your still being fed by someone else. How exactly do you know how Jesus fed the apostles @ the last supper. I've read it and it doesn't say. If you receive from.the pope in Rome you kneel and receive on the tongue. The beauty is the church doesnt care if you receive in the hand or the tongue its your prefrence and no o.e ahould ever be made to feel bad for their prfrence. I'm not meaning or wanting to get in a theological discussion here on a knitting forum but I did think your comment was worth a reply as it was a worthy comment. God bless


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## obxamom

Hilary4 said:


> I have the utmost reverence for receiving communion, but I believe it is God's intention to feed us spiritually as adults, which for me doesn't include someone else placing the host on my tongue. Jesus didn't place the bread in the mouths of the apostles.


Might I also add that in scripture Jesus says to Peter....Peter do you love me, and Peter says yes Lord you know I love you .....to which Jesus responds....then Feed my flock.....Jesus goes on to ask the same question a total of 3 times to which he gives Peter the same response. Later Jesus gives the great command to all of his disciples to take care of and to feed his flock. With your statement, then one might say that one should not really need to attend church and just sit at home, read the bible, and they are good to go, because listening to a priest, pastor preach the sermon or homily is in essence being fed by someone else as well through their words on scripture. 
In regards to the nuns, that is interesting....I know that the Dominicans are in full habit where we live (and they are young nuns), where as the Benedictine nuns just wear simple street clothing with a Benedictine pin that they wear...so it could depend on the particular convent as well. Anyway, it is always good to have a conversation about these things!  Have a beautiful day!


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## marion07

I love all the comments. Really gets you thinking. As far as Latin vs. English or native language at least when the Mass was in Latin you could travel around the world and participate. I went to Catholic school for 12 years Latin Mass everyday - we knew our Latin!!! I know this is a knitting forum, but I personally have enjoyed this thread and I bet there are many out there who will be knitting or crocheting mantillas.


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## Perlaelsa

Not in Latin America. The Dominicans still wear their habits


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

I am thinking, after reading about Yugoslavia on Wikipedia... with their horrible wars and rapes and awful things that have happened that I never paid attention to... they have women who knit too, and this forum would be just wonderful to reaching out to such women. Now, how to go about it? And also to help fleeing hiding Jews around the world. Lots of people knit and crochet in lots of places; how about gay people, too?


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## cathie02664

Thanks


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## sheardlite

When I was growing up, we called them "chapel" veils. Small 6-8" doily like netting. You may want to Google the word and see what you come up with. Good luck.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

I wonder how different these really are or have to be from the pattern I have for the Jewish Yarmulka or however it is spelled. Those are held on with bobby pins, too, apparently.


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## suepro

They were called Chapel Veils or Mantillas and we wore them long before Jackie Kennedy married Onassis. We wore the small "Chapel Veils" or Beanies to match our uniforms until we received confirmation and then we graduated to the longer version, "Mantillas." This was in Philadelphia in the early 60s.


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## jkmwrj

I do not have a pattern to offer to you, but I do have a little history on the head covering as I believe it came about.
Originally as far back as I can remember the rule was for women to have their head covered while they were in church. As it was just normal for women to wear hats when they went to social events, the hat was also the covering for church. Now, the next part I am telling is strictly from my observations. I believe that it was in the 60's that the elaborate, stiff hair styles became so popular. Hats did not fit on these hair styles, thus the little white cap which could sit nicely on the head without destroying the style. Eventually, the Catholic church dropped the rule that women should have their hair covered while in church. Please correct me if my observations do not appear to be correct.


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## Donalda

I believe you are correct. The Church has changed very much since then. No Latin Mass. No nuns wearing habits. No mortal sin if you eat meat on Friday, and it goes on and on. Might as well be an Episcopalian. Loved your post.
:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## obxamom

Donalda said:


> I believe you are correct. The Church has changed very much since then. No Latin Mass. No nuns wearing habits. No mortal sin if you eat meat on Friday, and it goes on and on. Might as well be an Episcopalian. Loved your post.
> :thumbup: :thumbup:


Its amazing that a simple question has generated 13 pages of posts. In in regards to your post, yes the church has changed its litergy and disciplines over time, but never the teachings on faith and morals which can not be changed, although a deeper understanding may shed light to the mystery of the faith. Disciplines change ( not eating meat on every Friday to just reserving that for lent. ) the church though has never to my knowledge said that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin. The way we worship the litergy has evolved over the 2000 years. Latin in the church still exists. Even many ordinary form masses still use Latin. We attend the Latin mass every Sunday. The nuns still wear habits where we go to church and the women still cover their heads. So its still out there. Unfortunately there were a lot of liberations taken post Vatican two. An interesting tie bit of history. The official document of vat 2 never mentioned discontinued use of the head covering. Or churches tearing out the communion rails.


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## marion07

obxamom said:


> Its amazing that a simple question has generated 13 pages of posts. In in regards to your post, yes the church has changed its litergy and disciplines over time, but never the teachings on faith and morals which can not be changed, although a deeper understanding may shed light to the mystery of the faith. Disciplines change ( not eating meat on every Friday to just reserving that for lent. ) the church though has never to my knowledge said that eating meat on Friday was a mortal sin. The way we worship the litergy has evolved over the 2000 years. Latin in the church still exists. Even many ordinary form masses still use Latin. We attend the Latin mass every Sunday. The nuns still wear habits where we go to church and the women still cover their heads. So its still out there. Unfortunately there were a lot of liberations taken post Vatican two. An interesting tie bit of history. The official document of vat 2 never mentioned discontinued use of the head covering. Or churches tearing out the communion rails.


Well said.


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## Donalda

Very well said.


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## Judy M

When I was very young, my aunt pinned a small handkerchief to my hair, after I begged to go to her church.

Found this also but probably not what you are looking for so see the website below.
Catholic 
Biretta
Camauro
Cappello romano
Galero
Mitre
Mantilla
Papal tiara
Zucchetto

Check this out. I searched for Catholic women headwear pattern Various pictures.
https://sites.google.com/site/thoseheadcoverings/headcoveringsillustrated

To wear a hat indoors was considered disrespect.


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## Irish maggie

KnitterNatalie said:


> The "shawl" is called a mantilla, and the lovely lace was very popular when I was growing up...I've been a Catholic all my life. Here are a few links that may help you.
> 
> http://www.knitty.com/ISSUEss12/FEATss12EK.php
> 
> http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/symphony-mantilla-248
> 
> http://www.yarnover.net/web/patterns/shawls.html
> 
> http://www.yarnover.net/web/patterns/shawls.html
> 
> http://www.knitrowan.com/designs-and-patterns/patterns/mantilla-shawlette


oh natalie, im also a catholic ,and have an irish sense of humour When you said i have been a catholic all my life .? I thought you had already gone to heaven    please dont be offended !!


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## heidisoma

Irish maggie said:


> oh natalie, im also a catholic ,and have an irish sense of humour When you said i have been a catholic all my life .? I thought you had already gone to heaven    please dont be offended !!


Your comments is so funny. I am not irish but do share your sense of humour.


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## jkmwrj

Gee whiz, this has been fun seeing all of the different responses to the original question and also that my comment has sparked some stories about head covering in church. Hey, I'm only half Irish, but I guess I have the same sense of humor.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

So what is your other half, here in the good ole melting pot?


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## jkmwrj

W


Hipoldfarmgirl said:


> So what is your other half, here in the good ole melting pot?


Well I am from Wisconsin, moved to IND in Sept., so if you know much about the lower part of the state, it is almost a given. The other half is German.


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## jkmwrj

I don't know if my answer went through, so to repeat word for word, I lived in Wisconsin for 82 years, moved to IN last Sept. If you know much about the lower half or so of WI you could guess German and you would be right on.


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## CarolineC

Back when I wore a triangular mantilla to church I used to wear it with the point at the front and anchored by a booby pin. Spanish women used to wear it point in front and hold it up at the back of their heads with a large decorative comb. Anyway, if you goggle it there are lots of patterns. Cheers and good luck.


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## cara

It is called a Mantilla, is usually black lace material worn at Mass mostly in Italy and Spain and have also seen it worn in many Catholic churches in Europe.

it can be round square or oblong - must cover head and face - either black lace material or knit/crochet in fine black yarn.


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## cara

It is called a Mantilla, is usually black lace material worn at Mass mostly in Italy and Spain and have also seen it worn in many Catholic churches in Europe.

it can be round square or oblong - must cover head and face - either black lace material or knit/crochet in fine black yarn.


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## Hipoldfarmgirl

So the square black face covering Jackie Kennedy wore at husband's funeral, over a hat, is a mantilla. But you are not talking about triangular like everyone else has been talking abaout, to wear to church and easily carry around, black in older women but little white doily type covering, even kleenex as bobby pinned head covering for young girls entering church.


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## Marny CA

5mmdpns said:


> I know that many many different Mennonites wear them. I was not aware that Roman Catholics also wore them. The cardinals wear them when they are in their official duties. Pope will wear a white one. Zoe


I believe Christians call what the Pope and other clergy wear 'skullcaps.'

In the Jewish religion they are called kippah or yarmulkas.

I know in the Jewish religion the men do not wear lace - I never saw a Catholic man wearing lace either.


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## Joanne Hyde

The round one was a Caplet. They haven't been expected to be worn since the mid 60's. At that time the Protestants stopped wearing hats and the Catholic's were blamed for ruining the hat industry. Just a bit of history.


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## Joanne Hyde

Sorry the spelling is chaplet.


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## Judy M

Hmmm thought they are called mitres
The mitre (/&#712;ma&#618;t&#601;r/; Greek: &#956;&#943;&#964;&#961;&#945;, "headband" or "turban"), also spelled miter, is a type of headgear now known as the traditional, ceremonial head-dress of bishops and certain abbots in the Roman Catholic Church, as well as in the Anglican Communion, some Lutheran churches, and also bishops and certain other clergy in the Eastern Orthodox churches, Eastern Catholic Churches and the Oriental Orthodox Churches.

Amish and Mennonite ladies also wear a type of head covering.


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## piecemaker

Joanne Hyde said:


> Sorry the spelling is chaplet.


No, a chaplet is prayer beads. There are many many different kinds of chaplets, in honor of saints, to pray for petitions, and of course to honor God. The rosary is a kind of chaplet as a full rosary is actually 20 decades and not 5. There is a chaplet to the Holy Spirit, a St. Michael chaplet, chaplets for the souls in purgatory etc.

The head covering is a chapel veil or the longer triangle ones are called mantillas.


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## essbee

We called them a mantilla with the l's pronounced like y's sort of like Spanish pronunciation.


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## sheardlite

We wore those "chapel veils" when we were young. Try doing a google search for a pattern.


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