# Punch card on the ribber



## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

I'm new to knitting. I have a machine that uses DAK 8 (Silver Reed SK840) and one with punch card (Brother KH260) both with ribbers and my question is if I do circular knitting, can I use fair isle designs or any design patterns on the ribber?


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## jaysclark (Jan 26, 2013)

There are specific cards for the Brother - they have KRC on them. I do not know what the difference is between ordinary punch cards and those you can use with a ribber. But I am sure someone else does!!


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## Maryknits513 (Feb 12, 2011)

msaltmyer said:


> I'm new to knitting. I have a machine that uses DAK 8 (Silver Reed SK840) and one with punch card (Brother KH260) both with ribbers and my question is if I do circular knitting, can I use fair isle designs or any design patterns on the ribber?


No. Some Japanese ribbers have lili buttons at will allow an alternate needle, or birdseye design, but not fair isle or other designs without hand manipulation of the needles. True double bed knitting machines, such as Passap or Superba, have more design capability. The Passap E8000 have the capability to knit the same or a different design on the front and back beds (main bed and ribber).


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## Zach (Feb 25, 2012)

msaltmyer said:


> I'm new to knitting. I have a machine that uses DAK 8 (Silver Reed SK840) and one with punch card (Brother KH260) both with ribbers and my question is if I do circular knitting, can I use fair isle designs or any design patterns on the ribber?


It is called double bed jacquard. I also use the double bed color changer. It makes changing colors easy. I have DAK 8 and the sk840. Also there is a special ribber carriage to do bird's eye dj for the silver reed/studio/singer machines The Brother uses the lili buttons on the ribber carriage


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## rainbirdoz (Nov 7, 2012)

Sorry but with circular knitting, you cannot do fairisle on the ribber on any machine althugh it is a possibility on the Passap machines. The Passap 8000 (as already stated) does have this capacity, but it is also possble on the Duomatic punchcard machines with either hand manipulation of the back bed ushers (which would be very tiresome except for a very small area, or by using the original hand aniulated Passap punchcard device. I can't remember its name although I do have one tucked away somewhere.
With the Brother 850 ribber, the lili buttons do allow you to select alternate needles but this will not allow you to knit circular patterning because of the way the carriages work, you could only knit birdseye double jacquard.
Sheila 
Western Australia


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## Maryknits513 (Feb 12, 2011)

Zach said:


> It is called double bed jacquard.


Double bed jacquard is not circular knitting.


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## Zach (Feb 25, 2012)

sorry didn't read as written
using 2 colors in pattern with both beds working is double jacquard. it is great fun


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

msaltmyer said:


> I'm new to knitting. I have a machine that uses DAK 8 (Silver Reed SK840) and one with punch card (Brother KH260) both with ribbers and my question is if I do circular knitting, can I use fair isle designs or any design patterns on the ribber?


Do you want a flat piece of fabric with a Fair Isle design on the one side and a Fair Isle design on the other? Or is it a case that you want a Fair Isle design on one side and then would be happy having a birds eye or stripe pattern (there are some others I believe) on the other? If it's the latter then yes you can do it.
This is a pram blanket that I did on my Brother.......
http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-89105-1.html


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## Piper Too (Oct 27, 2012)

Why is it designated Double Jacquard at all?. It has to use both beds to do Jacquard. Fair Isle is done on the single knitting bed. 

Is there such a thing as single jacquard? I have never heard of that, in my ignorance.  Thanks.


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## Maryknits513 (Feb 12, 2011)

Piper Too said:


> Is there such a thing as single jacquard? I have never heard of that, in my ignorance.  Thanks.


I haven't heard of single jacquard either. Some of our terms came from weaving, and I think double jacquard is one of them. I was puzzled why one is fairisle and the jacquard but didn't take the time to learn why they are so named. The beautiful fabric is all that matters to me,not the names.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

Fair isle is an island in Northern Scotland and this is where the Fairisle knitting comes from. With this you have the floats across the back.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Isle

Jacquard is the French surname of the inventor of the loom that made this type of knitting possible without the floats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacquard_loom

Why double was put in front of the word Jacquard I don't know. Perhaps it was used by home machine knitters to distinguish it from single bed Fairisle. Although I cant understand why.


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

Thank you all for your replies! It certainly helped me understand better.


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## GrammaAnn (Dec 16, 2011)

msaltmyer said:


> I'm new to knitting. I have a machine that uses DAK 8 (Silver Reed SK840) and one with punch card (Brother KH260) both with ribbers and my question is if I do circular knitting, can I use fair isle designs or any design patterns on the ribber?


I think there might actually be a way to do it. I borrowed this book from the library - "A Machine Knitter's Guide to Creating Fabrics" by Lewis & Weissman. There are more ways to do jacquard than one could imagine!  A quote from the book - "Rib jacquards, also known as double jacquard, fair isle, double fair isle and multicolored rib, are made double bed. A backing is knitted on the second bed simultaneously with the design on the main bed. Floats on the reverse of jersey jacquards are knitted into the backing, producing a thicker, more stable, often reversible fabric." I want to learn that reversible one with a design on both sides! :thumbup: So much to learn and so little time!  Ann


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## 30Knitter (Apr 9, 2012)

Maryknits513 said:


> No. Some Japanese ribbers have lili buttons at will allow an alternate needle, or birdseye design, but not fair isle or other designs without hand manipulation of the needles. True double bed knitting machines, such as Passap or Superba, have more design capability. The Passap E8000 have the capability to knit the same or a different design on the front and back beds (main bed and ribber).


No machine that I know of (unless its an industrial machine) can knit fairisle on a circular setting.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

GrammaAnn said:


> I think there might actually be a way to do it. I borrowed this book from the library - "A Machine Knitter's Guide to Creating Fabrics" by Lewis & Weissman. There are more ways to do jacquard than one could imagine!  A quote from the book - "Rib jacquards, also known as double jacquard, fair isle, double fair isle and multicolored rib, are made double bed. A backing is knitted on the second bed simultaneously with the design on the main bed. Floats on the reverse of jersey jacquards are knitted into the backing, producing a thicker, more stable, often reversible fabric." I want to learn that reversible one with a design on both sides! :thumbup: So much to learn and so little time!  Ann


I was told how to do this some time ago but never had a go at doing it. Now I cant remember how to do it.  
I know there are loads of ways of doing Jacquard but I always stick to the birds eye way. I have some books on Jacquard and keep saying I am going to try other ways but being honest the books aren't that easy to follow. 
There is a technique called embossed Jacquard, have you tried that? It's on my to do list which is a mile long. I'm like you....so much to learn and so little time.


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## GrammaAnn (Dec 16, 2011)

I have not tried it - but am really interested in some of these techniques. This book is like a text book - a little hard to understand, but I am determined to learn something new - I only know the birds eye method now.  Ann


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## msaltmyer (Apr 16, 2013)

GrammaAnn said:


> I have not tried it - but am really interested in some of these techniques. This book is like a text book - a little hard to understand, but I am determined to learn something new - I only know the birds eye method now.  Ann


I may have to borrow the book from the library. I'm so new to knitting both machine and hand knitting and don't know jacquard, birds eye yet.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

GrammaAnn said:


> I have not tried it - but am really interested in some of these techniques. This book is like a text book - a little hard to understand, but I am determined to learn something new - I only know the birds eye method now.  Ann


I have done the birds eye and the striped one but haven't had a go at any others. For winter born babies pram blankets I have knit a separate backing in very in very fine yarn and joined the two together on the machine like a pillow case just hand sewing the last/bottom edge. But it would be nicer to do it in one go, we will have to get our heads together and see what we come up with.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I just remembered that I had the following saved and thought that you might be interested in it.
http://needlesofsteel.blogspot.co.uk/2007/01/reversible-double-bed-jacquard-and.html

I also have the instructions for doing lined Jacquard. The fabric is knitted on each bed independently. At intervals along the row selected stitches are knitted together to connect the 2 fabrics. The front would be the pattern and the back is in the contrasting color.


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