# El Al won't allow my knitting



## lenorehf (Apr 2, 2011)

I'm flying to Israel next week and since I know El Al's security is tops, I decided a phone call was a good idea. I can't imagine a 10 + hour flight without knitting but that's exactly what it will be. They won't allow me to take my knitting on the plane. So, I guess I'll be doing a lot of reading, listening to music and napping.  But at least I'll be safe.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

I guess we can't argue with the rules that are intended to keep us safe. What about a small crochet project?


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.

And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.
> 
> And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.


And if you want to play ball in another ball diamond, you follow their rules and use their ball. If you dont want to play ball, no one is saying you have to.


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

True enough; unfortunately that response covers a whole lot. I don't know whether you're aware of the "no fly" list; people on this list are not allowed to board a plane in the US. The late Sen. Ted Kennedy was at one time put on this list; the ACLU is currently fighting for the right for people to at least be allowed to find out why they're on this super-secret list. Security comes at the cost of freedom; obviously it's an individual choice but when the "security" is largely illusory I find it hard to justify.


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## Raybo (Mar 12, 2011)

A wise person once told me "liberty and security are at opposite ends of a long spectrum. The closer you get to one the further you are from the other". It works every time!


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Cythera said:


> True enough; unfortunately that response covers a whole lot. I don't know whether you're aware of the "no fly" list; people on this list are not allowed to board a plane in the US. The late Sen. Ted Kennedy was at one time put on this list; the ACLU is currently fighting for the right for people to at least be allowed to find out why they're on this super-secret list. Security comes at the cost of freedom; obviously it's an individual choice but when the "security" is largely illusory I find it hard to justify.


Of course I am aware of the no fly listings. Every country has them. Yes, my reference to playing ball does cover a lot of things. In short, if you do not wish to abide by the rules of the establishment, then dont use the establishment. As someone who nearly lost her brother in-law in the 9-11 trade centers, I guess the "security" is not a largely illusionary thing. Security measures have been put in place for the mutual benefit of everyone who chooses to fly. I do not find it hard to justify these things.


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## katlapp (Mar 19, 2013)

No bamboo needels either? That's hard but better safe than sorry. at least you know you'll be safe.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.
> 
> And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.





Cythera said:


> True enough; unfortunately that response covers a whole lot. I don't know whether you're aware of the "no fly" list; people on this list are not allowed to board a plane in the US. The late Sen. Ted Kennedy was at one time put on this list; the ACLU is currently fighting for the right for people to at least be allowed to find out why they're on this super-secret list. Security comes at the cost of freedom; obviously it's an individual choice but when the "security" is largely illusory I find it hard to justify.


I can understand that we, as a society based on personal freedoms, may take issue with the security measures that we must navigate in order to utilize certain public venues. I do know that I am a good, honest, and non-violent person but how would total strangers know that?

It is the naive trust that US citizens have always enjoyed that those with evil intent take advantage of, making these security steps necessary. I have absolutely no problem following these rules knowing that they are intended to keep me, and those that I love, safe from harm. Personally, given the state of the current evil bombings on innocent people, I wouldn't want to get on a plane without these security measures!~


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh well each to his own I guess. And if I'm completely alone I'll live with it. But I think that the walls that we're building higher and higher around ourselves come with a very serious cost to both individuals and to society. When my son was still in the "institutional" school system, the schools were very much into "never talk to strangers." As I pointed out to him at the time (he was in second grade), had we taken that to heart we would not yet have any friends in the town we had moved to when he was 3. (Besides the facts, which I did NOT mention to him at the time, that most child abuse originates with friends and relatives, not with "strangers", and most child abductions are carried out by divorced or separated parents.)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)


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## aliciawake (Jun 21, 2011)

Israel is not the only foreign country that doesnt allow knitting needles on their airline's flights. France or Sweden dont either. when flying out of the UK in 2006 and 2007, they didnt allow it either.

suggest reading a book instead, though i have taken counted cross stitch projects to Israel with no problems.


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## tryalot (Apr 29, 2012)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.
> 
> And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.


Terrorists can look just like you, thats how they get away with it. Nobody is too special to be exempt from the rules that protect others


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

Oh my goodness gracious sake! I guess that's supposed to just put me in my place for sure! It didn't, actually ...


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## Tanikins (May 12, 2011)

You can take knitting needles in your checked-in suitcase.


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## Tanikins (May 12, 2011)

I flew Emirates last year and they don't allow knitting needles in your hand luggage either. I'm quite happy with their policy - I prefer to reach my destination safely, thank you. With what goes on in the world with terrorists, I don't want to land in the sea at their hands. Count yourself lucky that they care about their passengers.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Leno. I posted this topic on a UK forum last year. I, too, cannot sit without having hook or needle in my hands. I declared the knitting at a London airport and the wooden needles were acceptable under BAA rules. The male stewards on Pegasus Turkish Airline took my knitting off me but the Captain said it was ok and handed it back after the female stewards spoke on my behalf. It was the back on a nearly completed, intricate Aran, sweater. I was told to speak with the TAA as it was their rule. However. It started the train of thought. Would a terrorist go so far as to learn Aran knitting on an English pattern? What about other dangerous items. The replies that came back were brilliant although some were not happy about hooks and needles on board. Dental floss. A sockful of coins. Heeled shoes. Pens and pencils. Belt buckles. Hand luggage - more particularly the ones with wheels. Duty free alcohol bottles (also sold on the planes). And much much more. At least the hands are visible when working with hook and needles. I actually had tapestry needles and thread cutter in my purse which went through the scan. So, how did Lockerbie and 9/11 terrorists get through!!!! Can you take these needles and hooks on the cruise ships, then? Surely the airlines can put Sky Marshalls on all aeroplanes. They will be trained to look for what constitutes a terrorist.


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## jannetie (May 30, 2012)

Cythera said:


> Oh well each to his own I guess. And if I'm completely alone I'll live with it. But I think that the walls that we're building higher and higher around ourselves come with a very serious cost to both individuals and to society. When my son was still in the "institutional" school system, the schools were very much into "never talk to strangers." As I pointed out to him at the time (he was in second grade), had we taken that to heart we would not yet have any friends in the town we had moved to when he was 3. (Besides the facts, which I did NOT mention to him at the time, that most child abuse originates with friends and relatives, not with "strangers", and most child abductions are carried out by divorced or separated parents.)
> 
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> 
> - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)


I totally agree, Cythera. We've already lost too many of our liberties.


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## patocenizo (Jun 24, 2011)

El Al's safety record speaks for itself, I'd follow their rules. It's too bad that they won't allow the wooden circular's which is what I knit with when I fly.


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## dragonflylace (Jul 2, 2012)

Hi, just had to get my two cents in. I have traveled to Europe, China, Mediterranian, etc....never had problems carrying my knitting on the plane. (I usually use circulars, so I do not lose a needle on the floor). Here is a link to the Transportation Security Administration:

http://www.tsa.gov/traveler-information/transporting-knitting-needles-and-needlepoint

And here is a copy of what they say about Knitting needles.

Knitting needles are permitted in your carry-on baggage or checked baggage.

Items needed are permitted in your carry-on baggage or checked baggage with the exception of circular thread cutters or any cutter with a blade contained inside which cannot go through the checkpoint and must go in your checked baggage.

You can carry the materials on the plane with you, but you cannot carry those little circular cutting blades. I take a small pair of nail clippers (also allowed) in a little baggy with stitch holders, waste yarn, crochet hook, etc. I have never, ever been stopped in security....water bottle, yes, lotion in a lg bottle, yes....but never my knitting. These are the printed legal rules for what can and cannot be carried in your carry-on luggage.

Unless they do not follow the TSA, you should be able to carry your materials on the plane.


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## RaeRae (Mar 24, 2011)

Be glad you are only complaining about your knitting!

Everyone else that has to deal with Israel gets shot!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

This appears to be a very sore subject with some people. As someone who did lose family members on 9-11, I can tell you that safety has to come first and foremost.

Those who complain this is a loss of freedom should realize that losing a small freedom rather than losing life, is a small price to pay. Those of us who lost family members on 9-11, would give anything to have them back. That's not possible, so safety to prevent disaster is all that can be done.

Cruise ships? Come on, you can't drive a cruise ship into a sky scrapper.

El Al has always had the strictest security.

Why no bamboo circular needles? Well I suppose a very determined person could use one as a garrotte. 

Remember, it's not just what is in your hands, it's what someone else could take away from you and use to cause harm.


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## Kathie (Mar 29, 2011)

Why no bamboo circular needles? Well I suppose a very determined person could use one as a garrotte.

Remember, it's not just what is in your hands, it's what someone else could take away from you and use to cause harm.

Good point. I never thought about someone taking needles away and using them as a weapon. I have no problem with the security measures. It's too bad they have to be in place but that's the world we live in now. Maybe she can take a book about knitting to help pass the time. That's a long time to be cooped up with nothing to do.


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## Tanikins (May 12, 2011)

I agree wholeheartedly that it's a small price to pay not being able to knit for a few hours to ensure my safety and that of the crew and other passengers. I'll happily watch TV and read if it means the difference between life and death. As regards a cruise ship, don't forget that even cruise ships have been hijacked in the past. I realise that knitting needles were not used in those incidents, but needles can become a fatal weapon if someone stabs you in the eye or throat with them. I wouldn't like to be the one at the receiving end. There's just been a bombing at the Boston Marathon - come on, people, there are crazy people out there who are happy to maim and kill anyone, including innocent children. I'll pack my knitting needles in my suitcase, thank you very much.


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## MargieP (Apr 19, 2013)

10 hours is a long time without a knitting fix, but you can dream of your next project, or take some paper and if you are allowed a pen or pencil, then try designing your own garment/lace pattern. I usually go armed with huge amounts of 'entertainment' on the plane, but usually just fall asleep soon after take-off. And imagine how wonderful it will be to pick up those needles again when you are in Israel. Something to look forward to. Safe flight.


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## Heather416 (Feb 8, 2013)

So true - good way to look at it


Raybo said:


> A wise person once told me "liberty and security are at opposite ends of a long spectrum. The closer you get to one the further you are from the other". It works every time!


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

Just last week saw a program about airplanes and terrorism and it amazed me just how little I knew about it. It explained the reasons behind all the security measures and boy, it really opened my eyes.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

Tanikins said:


> You can take knitting needles in your checked-in suitcase.


That would be my suggestion also!


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## Littlenel (Aug 24, 2011)

It's not just on airplanes you have to be careful. I have been called for jury duty and I thought I would take some knitting while I was waiting to be called....no needles allowed in the court building!! Suppose I'll have to read and perhaps write some letters.


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## Lucette (Nov 28, 2012)

Hi Lenorehf,
If you fly inside Israel from one airport to another, you can take all the bottled water that you want on the plane. Your luggage, both hand and checked, will probably be thoroughly looked over, and you might have to unlock and show everyting inside. But Israel is beautiful and the history is just awesome. You will love it.


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## Obsessed (Jan 22, 2012)

RaeRae said:


> Be glad you are only complaining about your knitting!
> 
> Everyone else that has to deal with Israel gets shot!


What does that mean?


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## Tanikins (May 12, 2011)

Somewhat harsh a comment, I believe! - and certainly untrue.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

So sorry! I know all about long flights with nothing to do! At least I love reading also and can carry books!


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## aliciawake (Jun 21, 2011)

I was going to ask that too but didn't want to encourage any more ignorant comments by allowing this thread to be politicized.


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## aliciawake (Jun 21, 2011)

Tanikins said:


> Somewhat harsh a comment, I believe! - and certainly untrue.


Not only somewhat harsh but downright offensive to me...


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## ThorPepper (Jan 24, 2012)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.
> 
> And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.


El Al had these rules in effect decades before the Twin Towers went down. They're in force because people kept hi jacking them and blowing them up. Remember Entebbe, Uganda and President For Life Doctor Idi Ami? That's the most famous high jacking other than when a cruise ship was taken over.

What I don't understand is why the TSA is now allowing 4-inch pen blades. A lot of what they do doesn't make any sense. And those they hire to do the searching should have major background and psych checks.


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## ThorPepper (Jan 24, 2012)

RaeRae said:


> Be glad you are only complaining about your knitting!
> 
> Everyone else that has to deal with Israel gets shot!


You're kidding, right?


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## ThorPepper (Jan 24, 2012)

aliciawake said:


> Not only somewhat harsh but downright offensive to me...


 :thumbup:


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## mdatyon (Apr 19, 2013)

I would just plan on finger knitting. Not as great, but something to do. I like to keep busy and I'm not super fond of flying.


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

Just watching the action in Boston at the moment. I wouldn't want to be a police officer at the moment. They certainly put themselves at risk. Those boys were thought of as wonderful boys. They did a horrible thing. So security is very important because you just don't know. I am just sick at what has happened in the US recently. That Sandy Hook shooting and now this, my heart goes out to all of you. Stay safe, and watch what the heck your kids are up to.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

Can you tell us which program that was and the channel? I'd like to see it ; and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Chezl said:


> Just last week saw a program about airplanes and terrorism and it amazed me just how little I knew about it. It explained the reasons behind all the security measures and boy, it really opened my eyes.


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## Maribeth (Feb 27, 2011)

Around here they're starting to let small knives back on planes.I think knitting needles should be fine.


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

Yes, three inch knives are allowed. Things may change.


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## bevqual (May 9, 2011)

aliciawake said:


> Israel is not the only foreign country that doesnt allow knitting needles on their airline's flights. France or Sweden dont either. when flying out of the UK in 2006 and 2007, they didnt allow it either.
> 
> suggest reading a book instead, though i have taken counted cross stitch projects to Israel with no problems.


I flew from here to Germany to France in Nov last year, and then from France to Germany and home to NV and I was able to take some knitting along. I had small (size 6) baby hat sized circs with me, and no problem at all. We flew on Lufthansa, so maybe it depends on the airline?
Bev


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## faigiezipper (Apr 25, 2011)

Do you crochet? Might be a good time to learn.


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## Chezl (Mar 12, 2012)

Dsynr said:


> Can you tell us which program that was and the channel? I'd like to see it ; and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


It was from the series Air Crash Confidential on our Gem Channel which is part of Channel Nine. Don't remember the episode name but I think it had the word terrorism in it. It showed the true story of a terrorist that had somehow managed to get on a flight with the ingredients of a bomb but didn't manage to set it off. They name the ingredients and showed the reconstruction of the event with explanations of safety measures that are now employed and they even discuss the mistakes that were made by them that nearly resulted in horror. I would actually love to see the episode again especially after what has happened in Boston. I have also discovered in our program guide for Saturday on SBS One that there is a comedy movie on called 'Four Lions' and amazingly it is about a group of jihardists that set out to bomb an upcoming marathon. I wonder if the programmers realise that it is inappropriate to screen it now.


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## Lore Bews (Oct 19, 2011)

I really find this an interesting topic as I just got back from an around the World trip and not once did anybody at any airport give me a hard time about my knitting and crocheting that I carry in my backpack, I only pack plastic or bamboo needles and a dental floss container for cutting my wool, and I went from Calgary, Alberta, Canada to London England, by train to Paris, Francis, then to the United Arab Emirates (as my daughter & son-in-law teach in Abu Dhabi), then onto Cairo, Egypt, Saigon & Danang, Vietnam, Shanghi, China, Maui, Hawaii, USA and back to Canada. So I think a lot of it depends whether you look suspicious!


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## Lore Bews (Oct 19, 2011)

I forgot to mention that you should look up arm knitting on google, you can make beautiful Infinity scarves in a short time (1/2 hour to Hour) using just our wrists and hands. Might help pass the time on your long flight!


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## dec2057 (May 30, 2011)

You can take your knitting but not the metal single needles. I fly and take my Dennise plastic circulars. I enjoyed the nice comments on the baby hats I've knitted during the flight. I am a very fast knitter and don't look at the work I am doing, it's done by touch so folks are amazed at how quickly the hats get done and no missed stitches.

Some airlines have a strange rule that there must actually be some of the knitting on the needles (a works in progress) - I guess to prove they are not weapons but a craft tool LOL, so I just knit on the first bit at the airport while I am waiting to get on the plane.

By the way, my aunt is an Israeli citizen and very sweet. I was a tad alarmed and sad when I read the negative comment about Israel and shooting. The Israelis are a wonderful kind people who have spent most of their lives just trying to protect themselves, not unlike some Americans.



lenorehf said:


> I'm flying to Israel next week and since I know El Al's security is tops, I decided a phone call was a good idea. I can't imagine a 10 + hour flight without knitting but that's exactly what it will be. They won't allow me to take my knitting on the plane. So, I guess I'll be doing a lot of reading, listening to music and napping.  But at least I'll be safe.


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## NY Hummer (Oct 16, 2012)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer.


FYI:
What's to argue about?? 
El Al is an Israeli airline - and if you are flying under their rules, you abide by them, or use another airline - 
I would put my trust in El Al, and whatever guidelines they have. I went to Israel over 20 yrs ago, their restrictions were less then, but in their nation there are all kinds of checks - and it didn't make me feel judgmental - rather, it made me feel safer.

So, lenorehf:
Go and enjoy your flight, even without knitting ~ take some pattern books with you and make plans for what you will be making when you and your needles get back together! Have a wonderful trip : )


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## ThorPepper (Jan 24, 2012)

Dec2057 wrote:

"By the way, my aunt is an Israeli citizen and very sweet. I was a tad alarmed and sad when I read the negative comment about Israel and shooting. The Israelis are a wonderful kind people who have spent most of their lives just trying to protect themselves, not unlike some Americans."

:thumbup:


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## marimom (Aug 27, 2011)

Sorry to say, I have not had the pleasure to fly El Al to get to Israel but I would go along with whatever they had to say.
Here we are in the USA with a major city totally shut down (Boston), while in Israel they live with bombings and other atrocities every day and still keep on going.
I had to go to court yesterday and took my knitting on a circular needle which they did not allow in the courtroom.
I have never had that problem on any other airline.
Also, in first clase, what is even more ridiculous is that they give you a regular fork and a plastic knife. Now I could do more damage with a regular fork than I could with a regular knife.
But so it goes in our world today.



Littlenel said:


> It's not just on airplanes you have to be careful. I have been called for jury duty and I thought I would take some knitting while I was waiting to be called....no needles allowed in the court building!! Suppose I'll have to read and perhaps write some letters.


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## Lisa574 (Mar 29, 2013)

Can you take chopsticks? I have knit with those before. Pencils that are sharpened? Don't think I could do that long flight without knitting, so I would have to get creative. You might want to start a new project with whatever you are going to try (chopsticks, pencils) since the guage will be more difficult to figure out.


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## hleavy (Apr 2, 2013)

They won't let you use wooden needles or circular needles instead of straight needles? I sympathize. I had to take up needlepoint and still carry it onto flights. Fortunately Amercian airlines aren't as restrictive. Hang in there. If you haven't read the Diane Galbadon Outlander books , go for it. They are great and each one in almost 1000 pages.


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## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

Cythera said:


> We certainly can argue with them, especially since as far as I've been able to tell all of the intrusive nonsense that goes on now would not have prevented the destruction of the twin towers in New York. I will not step onto a plane again; I do not enjoy being treated like a convicted murderer. In the Americas I drive; if I'm lucky enough to be able to visit England again (wonderful place!), I'll take a boat.
> 
> And ... ball point pens are fine; but some airports and airlines ban crochet hooks as well. As well as pretty much any kind of tool for cutting yarn except for your teeth; they have not yet descended to taping our mouths shut.


You have no idea how much I AGREE with you! Just a bunch of nonsense. Terrorize the people and they will lay down everything allowing take-over, more stupid laws. See Germany before the wars.


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## sheardlite (Dec 28, 2011)

We are going to Malta in June and I can't take my knitting with me either on the plane. I will be taking it with my luggage in the "hole" though, then I can knit while on holiday.


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## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

katlapp said:


> No bamboo needels either? That's hard but better safe than sorry. at least you know you'll be safe.[/
> 
> I cannot believe that "at least you know you'll be safe." All an illusion, no one can guarantee it, and least of all these foolish rules.


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## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)[/quote]

Wonderful quote. Thanks for reminding us of it.


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## nit witty (Dec 29, 2011)

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.

- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)[/quote]

Wonderful quote. Thanks for reminding us of it.


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## deshka (Apr 6, 2011)

When all this 'security' stuff started I called and ask if I could take knitting needles and was told, sure. I still was not sure, as I know some rules are made up on the fly, so to speak. So, I took my old plastic needles, in my knitting bag which I put into my backpack. At one check I ask if I could take my needles and the guy scanned my passport and said, "For you, yes, you may take your needles." I wanted to ask what the 'for me' was, but decided against that. I am not sure how many terrorists they have caught and saved from doing dirty deeds, we don't hear much about that now do we. With all the 'security' you would think they would be catching nasty people right and left. Chipping away at our liberties every way they can. I also know that I have been thoroughly checked out by Disco, as I was told a couple times, I also know the FBI has voice comparison tapes of me and my girls, and we all sound alike.


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

Bless you nit witty! Now I don't feel quite so alone


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

I don't think of security as taking away my liberty. They can check and pat me all they want. I've got nothing to hide. I just like to know I'll be safe. Just leave my knitting needles alone!


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

And thanks to deshka for her story! The last time I was on an airplane our little party (myself, my husband, my son and his girl friend - who has Native American in her ancestry and therefore apparently looks "suspicious") were scrutinized carefully and asked various questions .... right after us was a party which included someone in a full-coverage burka (sp?) which only revealed a pair of men's style shoes. They were allowed through with no questioning.

I was born in this country, I have served in the military and I have had a "top secret" security clearance. I think it is right and proper for me to question governmental procedures which, in my opinion, abrogate our liberty and our right to privacy. It is equally right and proper for anyone or everyone to disagree with my opinions, but please don't be patronizing.


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

I disagree with burkas in North America. It's not fair to women.


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## bevqual (May 9, 2011)

One other thing lenorehf, I taught some kids to knit using 2 kids paintbrushes, cos that's all we had besides yarn.  It works just fine.


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

Raybo said:


> A wise person once told me "liberty and security are at opposite ends of a long spectrum. The closer you get to one the further you are from the other". It works every time!


Truth was spoken here....


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

tryalot said:


> Terrorists can look just like you, thats how they get away with it. Nobody is too special to be exempt from the rules that protect others


NOT True...Evaluate every terrorist attack across this world and you will see the profile. The terrorist attacks worldwide always increase right after ramadan. If any of us were indoctrinated with messages of violence, hatred and told that certain people groups were to be eliminated, and we acted upon those "teachings"-imagine the violence.


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

ThorPepper said:


> Dec2057 wrote:
> 
> "By the way, my aunt is an Israeli citizen and very sweet. I was a tad alarmed and sad when I read the negative comment about Israel and shooting. The Israelis are a wonderful kind people who have spent most of their lives just trying to protect themselves, not unlike some Americans."
> 
> :thumbup:


Thank you--Americans are clueless to the constant danger that surrounds the Israelis. I wouldn't hesitate to go to Israel because the soldiers are so well trained. A sheriff from Milwaukee went to Israel to be trained on terrorism. This tiny remnant of people have been chosen from the beginning of time to do mighty works. I pray for the peace of Jerusalem.


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

Ma Kitty said:


> I disagree with burkas in North America. It's not fair to women.


Do you want to really know what isn't fair to women ? How about female genital mutilation that is performed on these little girls--all in the name of religion. I would prefer a bit more modesty in clothing. No one deserves to be mutilated. Educate yourself on this process. If you are as horrified as I was, you will start speaking out against it.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

tryalot
Terrorists can look just like you, thats how they get away with it. Nobody is too special to be exempt from the rules that protect others



Suzeluvs2stix said:


> NOT True...Evaluate every terrorist attack across this world and you will see the profile. The terrorist attacks worldwide always increase right after ramadan. If any of us were indoctrinated with messages of violence, hatred and told that certain people groups were to be eliminated, and we acted upon those "teachings"-imagine the violence.


The Boston suspects looked just like everyone else in the crowd. There was nothing unusual about them walking around to distinguish them as terrorists wanting to do harm to innocent people enjoying a day at a special event. I believe that was the point of the earlier comment. I certainly wouldn't want him to be boarding a plane that I am on, but if we are going to omit the security measures, that is exactly what we would be looking at- People who look innocent and ordinary with black hearts that we cannot see on the outside. We currently live in dangerous time, and I don't see it getting safer just because we want it to be different.


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

All times are dangerous. Try Charles Dickens ... "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times ..."


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

Yes I've heard of it. But that is illegal (not that they don't still practice it). Education is key. Slowly women will be equal. Slowly.


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## Cythera (Jan 16, 2013)

And those suspects came here on airplanes, I believe well after many of our current "security" measures were implemented. My point? Just that what we're doing hasn't so far seemed to turn up any real "baddies" boarding planes and hasn't protected us from the dreadful things that have happened since.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

Cythera said:


> All times are dangerous. Try Charles Dickens ... "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times ..."


True. All the more reason to keep our guard up to match the threats of the times.


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## Joanna B (Apr 5, 2013)

So, back to the main subject - knitting needles on planes - personally I'd just put my wood/bamboo(circular)needles in my hand luggage, hope for the best - not ask anyone at security as that just makes them wonder if they should stop you taking them - if the x-ray machines pick them up or your bag is searched and they say you can't take them, just bite the bullet, remove the work from the needles and hand them over ...
Most airlines also allow up to 6cm bladed scissors on planes as well now!


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## arwenian (Aug 15, 2011)

CinDeeLooWho said:



> I guess we can't argue with the rules that are intended to keep us safe. What about a small crochet project?


We don't have to look too hard at the events of 9/11 or most recently, the Boston Marathon to know we are not in Kansas anymore. We are living in an increasingly complicated and violent world, so I am okay to go along with all those annoying security measures. Even if it means sidelining my knitting. 
Most destinations have shops where you can replace a couple of needles. Let's not forget how fortunate we have been that we have not had to live in a War Zone in the U.S. like so many countries. It is truly sad that our feeling of safety has been compromised.


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## arwenian (Aug 15, 2011)

Lore Bews said:


> I really find this an interesting topic as I just got back from an around the World trip and not once did anybody at any airport give me a hard time about my knitting and crocheting that I carry in my backpack, I only pack plastic or bamboo needles and a dental floss container for cutting my wool, and I went from Calgary, Alberta, Canada to London England, by train to Paris, Francis, then to the United Arab Emirates (as my daughter & son-in-law teach in Abu Dhabi), then onto Cairo, Egypt, Saigon & Danang, Vietnam, Shanghi, China, Maui, Hawaii, USA and back to Canada. So I think a lot of it depends whether you look suspicious!


I've had the same luck, but wow, I'm jealous of all your travels!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Sadly there are "home grown" terrorists in many countries. Remember the Oklahoma City bombing..."All American" looking Timothy McVey (complete with his well scrubbed face and crew cut) was behind that one.

As I stated very early in this thread, I DID lose family members on 9-11. Is any system perfect? No.

While I love to knit, if I was told my needles weren't welcomed I'd understand.

Look into some of the knitting "mystery" books that are available, purchase some knitting (or crochet) magazines and don't open them until the plane leaves the ground. Get a sketch pad and some knitting graph paper...plot out a design of your own. There are many ways to kill some hours, with a knitting "theme" while not actually knitting.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

Whenever I fly I take a crochet project along. Even though I prefer to knit.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Israel goes to great pains to protect not only it's people but it's visitors. I find the comment about "getting shot" in very poor taste.

For many, the acts of terrorism that have been perpetrated against innocent citizens across the world, are "mere" news stories to others. There are stories of those who "escaped" at the last moment due to a change in plans...and then there are those for whom there was no escape...unless you count jumping off the world trade center towers an "escape". 

I have a family member....he lost his life on 9-11, he was one of the 343 first responders to lose his life. His remains have never been identified. Not enough of his DNA survived t he disaster to be positively identified. Now think about his..rapists have been caught...just because of a few skin cells trapped under a fingernail! Yet not enough of my cousin survived to identify him!!!!!!!!! That's a very sobering thought. How do you explain to a wife or children that their nearly 6' husband and father has been "erased"?

NOT knitting may be an inconvenience, not living is a greater one. Not seeing your children achieve their goals and dreams, not holding any of your grandchildren..for even a second..is so much worse than being without your knitting for a few hours.

Perhaps you'd have to trade sneakers with me to see this. 

I'm so sorry that so many, have forgotten so quickly.


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## CinDeeLooWho (Oct 14, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Israel goes to great pains to protect not only it's people but it's visitors. I find the comment about "getting shot" in very poor taste.
> 
> For many, the acts of terrorism that have been perpetrated against innocent citizens across the world, are "mere" news stories to others. There are stories of those who "escaped" at the last moment due to a change in plans...and then there are those for whom there was no escape...unless you count jumping off the world trade center towers an "escape".
> 
> ...


My sympathy for your loss... you are right no one solution is perfect, we can only do the best we can.

We can so easily stash our knitting project in our checked luggage and avoid possibly loosing them in order to board a plane. Hopefully the luggage won't get lost!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

I work in the airline industry...trust me, the vast majority of us do not want to see your possessions lost. The rate of incidence is actually quite low. Properly tagged luggage is generally reuinted with the owner, fairly quickly. The key words are "properly tagged". No the paper tags are not that great...invest less than a dollar per piece in durable tag!

It really pains me to hear so many complain about what is really a "minor" inconvenience. 

I've only told you about ONE of the family members I lost that day...trust me you don't want to hear about the others...the ones who were given the choice of jumping to their deaths or burning to death.

In my mind...we should all be required to fly stark naked!

I don't want to sound insensitive but we can read, we can make plans, we can sit and formulate..but we don't HAVE to knit/crochet. 

I'm almost 60 years old and I do remember that in Kindergarten we were often told to just "sit still"......it's not that bad ...really!

It's not an invasion of your "rights"..it's not an invasion of your privacy. It's about being "safe"..it's about protecting our
selves, our children and grand children...etc.

Please don't make this about an "invasion" of your rights...please don't make this about losing rights.....lets honor and respect those whose lives were lost and taking a lesson to never let this happen again.

Boston has just seen a horrific event. I commend the intelligence that local, state and federal authorities led to "intervention" before more innocent lives were lost.

For the vast majority of us, knitting is a hobby, a past time...some of us design patterns and we do a bit of income from it..but for the most part it really is a pastime.

Relax..please relax. I don't want the family members who lost their lives to have lost them in vain...please!


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## Nojoheffner (Oct 24, 2012)

Went from Phoenix to Maui and had a knitting project in my checked baggage. In a zip lock bag I had the pattern, bamboo needles and an accessory box by Nameste, which held metal darning needles, tape measure, scissors and the key chain crochet hook to pick up a dropped stitch. When I unpacked, the crochet hook was missing...I hope they put it to good use!


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Nojoheffner, if that's all you "lost" consider yourself very lucky! Those of us who had family members who lost their lives would consider such a loss pretty "small".


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## MaryE-B (May 11, 2012)

The problem is that once security measures are instituted, they aren't really needed because something new is being developed so it can slip through security that is currently in place. I somehow don't envision knitters or crocheters taking down planes. The idea even is ludicrous. If and only if these "weapons" are wielded by someone who fits a "terrorist" behavioral profile, should they be disallowed. It's rather like having everyone remove their shoes. Yes, old people can be terrorists as can children, but behavior is supposed to be the primary characteristic and all passengers are scrutinized. The safety regulations are actually pretty silly except for those things that are obviously weapons and those that effectively could be. A fingernail scissors or yarn cutter has little in common with a box cutter or knife. Actually, you could cause more injuries to more people with a box cutter than with most knives.
We are in a lot more danger in our daily lives where the NRA is doing its best to make certain that each and everyone of us carries a concealed weapon. Soon, perhaps they will extend that right to air travel and we will be allowed to carry guns but not knitting needles when we fly.


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## Billie B (Apr 5, 2011)

Obsessed said:


> What does that mean?


I was going to ask the same question. - regarding "everyone else who has to do with Israel gets shot. What does that mean?

Israel's security system and implementation have always been the best in the world. It startled me the first time we went to Israel in 1977, but it has to work exceptionally well, considering the constant danger they live in.

I think we in the US are supersensitive to profiling and therefore have to use less subtle methods for protection. But trust the Israelis. They know what they're doing!

Enjoy your trip.


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## Davena (Feb 24, 2013)

Some times comments have been made about how teenagers have to always being texting while in the company of family and not paying attention to conversations and why do they need to always being communicating at dinner tables or out with familys Well I do not like it when they do and find it rude. So when I should not be knitting because I cannot take my needles somewhere, I do not have a problem reading, drawing. listening to music or watch the movie provided or better still strike up a conversation with a person near me. Just like teenagers with there phones texting or games are we knitters addicted to our thing that bring us pleasure and can not give it up for a day.......


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## Bauerfest (Jan 31, 2011)

I don't think anyone here is trying to trivialize what happenned on 9/11, or in Boston, or any other place. I have a son in the Army who now has a destroyed shoulder due to an IED in Iraq - so I do empathize with those who lost much more than that.

However, I think what many of us are saying is that we would like SOME consistency and common sense among the airlines regarding certain items - if not metal needles, how about plastic or circular ones. If not sharp metal crochet hooks, how about large, i.e., size K, crochet hooks? Why are needles for cross-stitch okay? Is it really a security issue if I take a hand-sewing project? Instead of assuming we are all terrorists, how about giving individuals the benefit of the doubt and allow some common craft items. I'm not asking to take my large hunting knife on board with me so I can whittle, but I would expect to be able to take 24 inches of a baby blanket on plastic needles which I've obviously been working on.

Any infantry weapons leader will tell you that ANY item can become a weapon if it is used in the right manner - so in reality, nothing is really safe. There are special forces individuals who have been trained to kill without even using a weapon - like my son - but he's definitely somebody you would WANT on your plane as he signed to give up his life for this country when he was still in high school! 

So I think many of us are just saying that while we DO appreciate and understand personal losses, let's use common sense and understanding for those of us that are compulsive crafters who truly can't sit still for 10 or more hours without going nuts!


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## dec2057 (May 30, 2011)

Well said 

One of the things you can do to be pro-active about your knitting supplies is take a stamped priority flat rate envelope with you in your purse. If the airlines want to confiscate your knitting needles, pop them in the envelope and walk over to the kiosk that takes mail and mail your needles back to yourself so they will be waiting when you get home, or mail them to where you are going so you will have them when you get to your destination. I did that the first two times I flew on the airlines because I didn't want to risk losing my addi turbo circs but didn't need the envelope. The airlines didn't even give my circular needles a glance.



Bauerfest said:


> I don't think anyone here is trying to trivialize what happenned on 9/11, or in Boston, or any other place. I have a son in the Army who now has a destroyed shoulder due to an IED in Iraq - so I do empathize with those who lost much more than that.
> 
> However, I think what many of us are saying is that we would like SOME consistency and common sense among the airlines regarding certain items - if not metal needles, how about plastic or circular ones. If not sharp metal crochet hooks, how about large, i.e., size K, crochet hooks? Why are needles for cross-stitch okay? Is it really a security issue if I take a hand-sewing project? Instead of assuming we are all terrorists, how about giving individuals the benefit of the doubt and allow some common craft items. I'm not asking to take my large hunting knife on board with me so I can whittle, but I would expect to be able to take 24 inches of a baby blanket on plastic needles which I've obviously been working on.
> 
> ...


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## BaraKiss (Jun 15, 2012)

I just got a jury duty summons and it states no knitting needles allowed. I would be so much more patient if I could have my knitting.(While waiting that is, I wouldn't knit during a trial) But I can't help but wonder, how do the security people envision us hurting a person with knitting needles? Aluminum ones would bend, bamboo would break, circulars would be awfully hard to strangle someone with!


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## Ma Kitty (Mar 15, 2013)

BaraKiss said:


> I just got a jury duty summons and it states no knitting needles allowed. I would be so much more patient if I could have my knitting.(While waiting that is, I wouldn't knit during a trial) But I can't help but wonder, how do the security people envision us hurting a person with knitting needles? Aluminum ones would bend, bamboo would break, circulars would be awfully hard to strangle someone with!


Just a hint if you don't want to be picked for jury duty---every time they ask you a question just say "pardon me, I didn't hear you". That's what I hear gets you off. I've never been summoned and don't know if I'd use it.


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## dec2057 (May 30, 2011)

Start tatting 



BaraKiss said:


> I just got a jury duty summons and it states no knitting needles allowed. I would be so much more patient if I could have my knitting.(While waiting that is, I wouldn't knit during a trial) But I can't help but wonder, how do the security people envision us hurting a person with knitting needles? Aluminum ones would bend, bamboo would break, circulars would be awfully hard to strangle someone with!


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

courier770 said:


> Israel goes to great pains to protect not only it's people but it's visitors. I find the comment about "getting shot" in very poor taste.
> 
> For many, the acts of terrorism that have been perpetrated against innocent citizens across the world, are "mere" news stories to others. There are stories of those who "escaped" at the last moment due to a change in plans...and then there are those for whom there was no escape...unless you count jumping off the world trade center towers an "escape".
> 
> ...


There are some of us who have not forgotten. I am very sorry about your loss. I am very thankful of your loved one who gave his life to save those he didn't know. That is true courage and I pray his children will remember that he is a hero. I still believe that profiling is needed.


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## Nojoheffner (Oct 24, 2012)

Wasn't comparing knitting supplies to life. I, as many others have lost loved ones...like my son at 24 years of age.


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## BaraKiss (Jun 15, 2012)

Thanks for that idea.


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## lenorehf (Apr 2, 2011)

I did not expect such a reaction to this post. I've been to Israel several times. My family lives there. I worked in the WTC for many years. Safety is important to me. I obey the rules. As it turns out this may all be moot...El Al is on strike and the airport will be closed. I'm not sure I'll get to take this trip now and don't know if they're going to reschedule it. In the meantime, I'll knit away at home.


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## Heather416 (Feb 8, 2013)

BaraKiss said:


> I just got a jury duty summons and it states no knitting needles allowed. I would be so much more patient if I could have my knitting.(While waiting that is, I wouldn't knit during a trial) But I can't help but wonder, how do the security people envision us hurting a person with knitting needles? Aluminum ones would bend, bamboo would break, circulars would be awfully hard to strangle someone with!


Don't think they would bend or break if poked into some-one's eye, ear, nose, mouth (that of course is after they are snapped from your hands by someone else). . . little morbid I know, but that's how I feel after hearing about an al-Qaida plot to attack a VIA passenger train here today.


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## Knitish (Feb 8, 2011)

Lengths of 'yarn' or such can also be used as a weapon and to subdue or tie people. Also different metal 'needles' or such can be fit together to make a long-reaching weapon. No chances.


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## Heather416 (Feb 8, 2013)

Knitish said:


> Lengths of 'yarn' or such can also be used as a weapon and to subdue or tie people.


Good thinking - this could be useful if we're ever personally attacked.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

Thank you for the link. I will send this to the Turkish Aviation Authority.


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## Dsynr (Jun 3, 2011)

Chezl said:


> It was from the series Air Crash Confidential on our Gem Channel which is part of Channel Nine. Don't remember the episode name but I think it had the word terrorism in it. It showed the true story of a terrorist that had somehow managed to get on a flight with the ingredients of a bomb but didn't manage to set it off. They name the ingredients and showed the reconstruction of the event with explanations of safety measures that are now employed and they even discuss the mistakes that were made by them that nearly resulted in horror. I would actually love to see the episode again especially after what has happened in Boston. I have also discovered in our program guide for Saturday on SBS One that there is a comedy movie on called 'Four Lions' and amazingly it is about a group of jihardists that set out to bomb an upcoming marathon. I wonder if the programmers realise that it is inappropriate to screen it now.


Thank you. I was hoping Air Crash Continental would be on a channel we can get here in the USA, maybe LINK. Oh well... I agree that security measures may inconvenience us some of the time, but I'd rather be unable to knit than unable to be alive. :?


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## mairmie (Jun 16, 2011)

Knitting needles,crochet hooks,pens,pencils and even some belt buckles can become "weapons" in the wrong hands.WE HAVE TO BE VIGILANT. we`re lucky that the airlines are concerned with the public`s safety.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Chezl. I had not realised that TV programmes actually taught people step by step instructions on how to become murderers. Not all murderers are terrorists.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

Hi Courier 77. Thank you for the post. It does make sense to a knitter/crocheter. I think the reason I like to keep my hands busy is to take my mind off the thought that there might be a terrorist on board. If I am working an intricate pattern, I actually go into meditative mode.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

One response from another UK website. Who checks the food that goes on airlines or cruise ships? I take my own food anyway.


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

So. I still don't see how wooden/plastic needles/hooks are any more dangerous than a lot of other objects.


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## lenorehf (Apr 2, 2011)

After all that there was a woman knitting on the plane. I guess I should not have asked!


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## ChrissieUK (Apr 19, 2013)

lenorehf said:


> After all that there was a woman knitting on the plane. I guess I should not have asked!


 If you were on a Turkish airline, it was probably me!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Cythera said:


> Oh well each to his own I guess. And if I'm completely alone I'll live with it. But I think that the walls that we're building higher and higher around ourselves come with a very serious cost to both individuals and to society. When my son was still in the "institutional" school system, the schools were very much into "never talk to strangers." As I pointed out to him at the time (he was in second grade), had we taken that to heart we would not yet have any friends in the town we had moved to when he was 3. (Besides the facts, which I did NOT mention to him at the time, that most child abuse originates with friends and relatives, not with "strangers", and most child abductions are carried out by divorced or separated parents.)
> 
> They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
> 
> - Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania (1759)


You are not alone. I guess I get annoyed whenever some says, ' as long as we are safe" You are never completely safe. The incidents of deaths due to highway accidents is certainly much higher than being on a hijacked plane. Industrial accidents happen all the time. The problem with many of the rules is the small amount of added security they add doesnt make up for the degree of inconvience they cause. Basically " you dont get the bang for your buck" and it doesnt end. They continue to slowly erode personal freedoms till the day comes that we have none. Sounds very conspiracy theorist of me but I see it everyday. One only has to look at at the laws about the food we eat. Now they are taxing so called junk food in an effort to force us to eat what they think we should eat. If that doesnt raise your hackles a little then you deserve what you get.


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## louisevl (Jan 2, 2013)

We flew ELAL and found that the flights were set so that we were at night on the planes there and back to help with the time changes. They drew all the shades even though it was light outside some of the time we'd never know it.


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## Tanikins (May 12, 2011)

Emirates doesn't allow knitting needles, either. It's for our safety, don't forget.


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## Hilary4 (Apr 26, 2012)

How did this topic get dug up from 2013 and May 2017?


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## Subar (Mar 21, 2015)

tryalot said:


> Terrorists can look just like you, thats how they get away with it. Nobody is too special to be exempt from the rules that protect others


The point is the TSA 'rules' don't work. Recently TSA failed 97% of supervised testing incidents at airports throughout the USA. The 'safety' is illusory. At least with El-Al, the behaviorally based screening is intrusive and burdensome, but it works.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/tsa-fails-tests-latest-undercover-operation-us-airports/story?id=51022188


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