# Interesting article about copywrite on patterns



## Grandmaknitstoo (Jul 6, 2011)

You must read it all...
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml


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## lindseymary (Oct 29, 2011)

Very interesting.Lindseymary


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## margoc (Jul 4, 2011)

VERY interesting read. Unfortunately those who claim copyright violation probably won't read it to find out they don't have a leg to stand on!


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

Thank you so very much for this so very useful information, I truly due appreciate the time and effort you put in to post this. Have had the idea of knitting items to put in the new consignment store that just opened in our area, but didn't want to "break the law" by selling items from patterns, especially those explicitly stating not to sell for profit. 

Again, thank you
Suzanne


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## TexCat (Sep 23, 2012)

Exactly my feelings. However, there's a lot of statistics and quotes there and the one thing I've ALWAYS held true is that there are two kinds of lies:

Statistical lies and Damn lies!

LOL


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## mopgenorth (Nov 20, 2011)

I always wondered how garment manufacturers are allowed to duplicate the designer gowns seen on red carpets practically overnight for ready to wear - especially at more affordable prices - now we know!

Thanks so much for sharing this comprehensive article.


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## kaylink (Apr 9, 2011)

I personally feel there is a bit of difference selling items from a pattern in your local area vs online. Also if the pattern is simple enough that anyone could make it and claim it as their own then it could have been you. It is more of curtious thing to not sell things from a pattern.


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## User5935 (Feb 9, 2011)

so essentially.... we can sell whatever we make from a pattern, free or purchased, just not the pattern itself? Or can we sell that too since its not registered and therefore cannot be proven to be someone else's? Not that I want to sell patterns, but I am NOT a designer, but want to sell me work to find my habit. Am I basically free to sell whatever I make? I don't want to take credit for someone else's idea, but I certainly want credit for my own work.


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## Lcotemi (Jan 31, 2013)

I found this article extremely interesting. My sister owns a quilt shop and is always telling me that she can't do this or that because of copyrights. I sent her the link. 
Thank you!


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## Grandmaknitstoo (Jul 6, 2011)

You are welcome. I hope this clarifies some questions, I know it helped me.


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## bwtyer (Oct 31, 2012)

I bookmarked that site because several years ago, I was selling some pincushions on ETSY - I learned how to do them probably 20 years before and made them for gifts. I made a few to sell and listed them on ETSY. I got an ugly email from another ETSY shop owner telling me to immediately take off my pincushions because it was her pattern and it was protected by copywrite - how she could tell it was her pattern from a photo was beyond me - and there was no pattern- it was a fold and stitch method but--- I did not want to argue or cause trouble, so I took them off ETSY and sold them at a local craft show. I do have a copyrighted pattern that I sell on ETSY and it plainly states that all customers can sell for profit any items made from the pattern, just please don't copy the pattern itself without permission. I have had no problems at all.


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## Chemchic (Dec 16, 2012)

thank you...we've been talking about this lately because of the new laws.


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## Hendrika (Jan 23, 2011)

Very interesting. Thank you. I often wondered if you would be infringing on their "copyrights" just by making the pattern?


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## nitchik (May 30, 2011)

Thanks for the information.


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## 5mmdpns (Jun 1, 2011)

Grandmaknitstoo said:


> You must read it all...
> http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml


And if you read further in this site, you will see that they make a total disclaimer for the accuracy of its contents! They are not willing to stand behind any/all of the things they say. This is NOT a reliable source for copyright issues and anyone who goes by these guidelines is really not having any legal grounds to stand on in a court of law. There are a lot of phony things on the internet. To determine the copyright laws in your area/s you need to consult a lawyer. Zoe


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## standsalonewolf (Dec 1, 2011)

great info thanks


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Actually read the fine print and the disclaimers on the site, you'll find that information is NOT coming from attorneys that specialize in copyright law. Go to the horses mouth, the US Government site that has a section on US copyright law.

The Tabborone site has been found to contain erroneous information.


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## Katsch (Mar 15, 2011)

Thanks for the link, very interesting.


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## BeadsbyBeadz (Dec 19, 2012)

Good article, well documented and informative. Thanks for posting.


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## bobctwn65 (Jul 27, 2012)

ooh I am sure we will hear a lot more on this issue...but I did see someone claiming to have the purse baby copywrited and I made that pattern up in 1981 ...not that I care .It has made many a little girl happy(as intended) but to tell me I can't make one and sell it forget that....


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

a very interesting read!


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## lneighbors3 (Oct 19, 2011)

MsMallo said:


> so essentially.... we can sell whatever we make from a pattern, free or purchased, just not the pattern itself? Or can we sell that too since its not registered and therefore cannot be proven to be someone else's? Not that I want to sell patterns, but I am NOT a designer, but want to sell me work to find my habit. Am I basically free to sell whatever I make? I don't want to take credit for someone else's idea, but I certainly want credit for my own work.


If you purchase a book or a pattern, you are within your rights to sell it. It is your property. You are not claiming to be the author or designer. If this were against the law, then places like Amazon, E-bay, and such would be out of business.

Lynne


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

5mmdpns said:


> And if you read further in this site, you will see that they make a total disclaimer for the accuracy of its contents! They are not willing to stand behind any/all of the things they say. This is NOT a reliable source for copyright issues and anyone who goes by these guidelines is really not having any legal grounds to stand on in a court of law. There are a lot of phony things on the internet. To determine the copyright laws in your area/s you need to consult a lawyer. Zoe


I don't know how accurate this is and therefore believe the same as you. Although it sounds good the writer does contradict himself/herself in a couple of places. 
It states it advices not to copy patterns from magazines and also the following.......

It is now yours and the manufacturer no longer has any legal control over what you do with the pattern, however, even if the pattern is not copyrightable, you should not

Make copies of the pattern to either sell or give away
Post a copy of the pattern on the internet for others to use
Modify the pattern slightly and sell it as your own creation

The reason we say the above, even though the federal law allows otherwise, you could run afoul of state laws concerning unfair business practices. Could. Not will. Some people are so intense about their patterns they sometimes go whacko. Many state claims would be preempted by the copyright laws but that would not stop the weird ones from trying. 

I find it all very confusing and therefore would prefer to have someone that is definitely involved with copyright laws explain it.


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## gozolady (Jul 20, 2013)

Rest assured someone here knows all about it. Otherwise she would not have accused me of violating copyright laws. Not that I was - or would - nor would I distribute patterns (also an accusation) unless they were mine to distribute. I made this QUITE clear. 
My take is this - - If I make anything using a pattern, that item is MY interpretation of said object.


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## pzoe (Mar 17, 2011)

This makes sense, this is nice since the law doesn't always make sense. I've lightly read some of the listings here which have reflected such copyright interpretation extremes. Clarification is so helpful. Thank you.

Pzoe


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## sheila burns (Aug 21, 2011)

Thank you so much for posting that. It was very informative and something I had been hoping to research.


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## Noreen (Mar 30, 2011)

The only thing that I know for sure is that no one including myself can say my pattern is copyright protected unless I register it with the copyright office and I sure as heck would never attempt to include a clause saying what a person can do with their finished product.


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## guen12 (Jul 28, 2011)

Good article. Glad to know I am in control of items, articles, patterns, I purchase with MY money. I don't have a problems with not re-printing a pattern I buy, in most cases, but I do not want anyone telling me what I can and cannot do after it is mine. I do not know how the creators plan to market their products if the customer is expected to sign a 3 page legal paper (just being sarcastic). But all of you know what I am saying. I am getting VERY phobic about people infringing on me.


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## nhauf001 (Jan 18, 2011)

Grandmaknitstoo said:


> You must read it all...
> http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml


Thanks, it was most instructive.


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## kyterp (Mar 3, 2011)

Wonderful article. Thank you ever-so-much!


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## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

My thoughts...for what it is worth. I don't want to offend anyone and if I did...I am sorry.
The ruffled one-ball scarves that were/are all the rage. A yarn company, I dont know who, came up with that type of yarn to create a scarf. Before you knew it almost every yarn company had their version of that yarn. Differences in the yarn, but all have a track at the top which you knit with. You cannot go to a craft show without seeing these scarves for sale. Now here is my question. Why isnt the company that created that type of yarn claiming copywrite against all the other yarn companies? Or why doesnt the yarn company claim copywrite against all the people that are selling those scarves online, at craft shows or local boutiques? These scarves are everywhere, it would not be to difficult to find the copywrite violators.
I also see a ton of Anthro  inspired accessories all over the internet. Anthropologie is a huge company, why arent they going after these sites that are copying their accessories?
So I wonder if it is not a copywrite violation or is it just not worth the time to protect their copywrite?


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## SouthernGirl (Dec 28, 2011)

True.



5mmdpns said:


> And if you read further in this site, you will see that they make a total disclaimer for the accuracy of its contents! They are not willing to stand behind any/all of the things they say. This is NOT a reliable source for copyright issues and anyone who goes by these guidelines is really not having any legal grounds to stand on in a court of law. There are a lot of phony things on the internet. To determine the copyright laws in your area/s you need to consult a lawyer. Zoe


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## Ronie (Jan 21, 2011)

This is very interesting.. I have done lots of crafts in my lifetime... from paints to fabric to mixing them... I have been to dozens of quilt shows and have probably a few hundred quilt magazines... I have never had the issue of Copyrite come up before... I think Zoe is right we have to check our area.. I would think most law offices have the information or even library's but I do find it interesting and there is lots of great information given here.. and lots of links for us to do our own investigations...


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## Knitophile (Oct 22, 2012)

5mmdpns said:


> And if you read further in this site, you will see that they make a total disclaimer for the accuracy of its contents! They are not willing to stand behind any/all of the things they say. This is NOT a reliable source for copyright issues and anyone who goes by these guidelines is really not having any legal grounds to stand on in a court of law. There are a lot of phony things on the internet. To determine the copyright laws in your area/s you need to consult a lawyer. Zoe


I second this! Also, people tend to cite US legislation and then assume that it applies on a world-wide basis. As stated above, you need to consult a lawyer who is familiar with the laws of the jurisdiction in question. The lawyer you use for real estate transactions is probably not the one you would want to consult for intellectual property matters.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I think that this needs to be looked at from a different angle.
If Mrs I Knit buys a pattern....knits a baby jacket while watching TV.....then sells the baby jacket at a craft fair then I don't think that she will have a problem.
If Mrs I Knit decides she doesn't want or need the pattern anymore and then sells that one pattern on E-Bay or Amazon as a used second hand pattern...I don't think she will have a problem.
If however Mrs I knit decides to photocopy that pattern to sell....puts it onto the net for sale or for free then I would consider that Mrs I knits will have problems.

Think about the large company's that have money behind them and are in the business of making more.
To start the business they have probably paid a large registration fee.
They have bought/rented a building to work in and have the overhead costs regarding this.
They have staff wages to pay.
They have to pay a designer to write their patterns. 
They then pay for a location for the shoot...a model for the garment... and a photographer.
They then pay a printer...sales reps...advertising costs and taxes.

If Mrs I knits buys the first pattern that is available on the open market, and then puts it on here for free, do you really believe that the Director/owner of that company is going to say "oh well, we will just have to start all over again and produce a new pattern"? Do you think that he will sack the staff he has...closed down the business and go home and watch his lawn grow? Or do you think he will go after Mrs I Knit?

Someone mentioned the exclusive designs that are featured on the catwalks that sell for $1,000's and the fact that high street outlets very soon have copies available for the likes of you and me. Have you not considered that this is a good move by the actual designer and not down to the high street shop just taking the design and copying it.
The market for very high priced one off designs will not be that great so could it be that the designer isn't putting all his eggs into one basket and his using his loaf?
We all oh and sigh at that beautiful designer dress which we know we could never afford....what a brilliant advert that is for the one that suddenly becomes available in Top Shop. And the designer...having sold the rights for the use of his design...is making extra bucks.

Look at the music industry and how copyrights applies there. The written word I should imagine is covered in the same way. 
If a film director/TV producer/advertising company wants to feature a song/piece of music then they have to apply to do so and pay royalties. Even if they use the song Happy Birthday they have to pay royalties. But guess what you can sing this in your own home...and you will get away with singing it in a restaurant.
I guess that what I am saying is, that it isn't as clear cut as most believe.


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## 617 (Jan 19, 2011)

Great statement by Susieknitter: "that it isn't as clear cut as most believe"


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## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

I think that the ideas of NOT sharing patterns is ridiculous, law or not. It's like not sharing a recipe that someone created. Pure nonsense. I do share patterns---and recipes


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

dotcarp2000, that depends on HOW the patterns are shared. If you loan your copy of a pattern to a friend, that's fine. Duplicating the pattern (copying or scanning) and distributing the pattern to others, denies the copyright holder sales...in other words income!

Part of my income is derived from sales of my patterns. Like other designers I have bills to pay, don't you?


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

dotcarp2000 said:


> I think that the ideas of NOT sharing patterns is ridiculous, law or not. It's like not sharing a recipe that someone created. Pure nonsense. I do share patterns---and recipes


I'm not saying that it isn't right to share a pattern with a member of your family or a friend but to make it available for all the world to see/use via the net is another thing.
Designers/pattern company's are running a business to make a living in the same way that others are going out to work in order to pay their bills and live. If people put their work on the net for free how long do you think that these company's will carry on doing the work that they do. There will come a time when they will say "it isn't worth doing this" and where will you get your patterns from then? 
I have never written a pattern and don't think that I am gifted enough to do so. For this reason I don't want to see those that can/do finally decide that.....although it's a great job it will no longer put bread on the table.....and then get a job as a shelf stacker.
No disrespect for shelf stackers here...we all have to make a living.


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## Cassews (Apr 10, 2013)

One wonderful lady I know makes Dolls for severely ill children, and wanted some 18 inch doll patterns. I sent her several sites and asked her to please contact them to see if they would mind if she made the dresses and sold them but used the funds to make more for her dolls. 
Hopefully that will help her out as I have sent the site to her .. 
Thank you !!!!


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## gina (Jan 18, 2011)

mopgenorth said:


> I always wondered how garment manufacturers are allowed to duplicate the designer gowns seen on red carpets practically overnight for ready to wear - especially at more affordable prices - now we know!
> 
> Thanks so much for sharing this comprehensive article.


Exactly, there would be knockoff lawsuits constantly.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Template patterns (sewing) are not eligible for copyright, copyright only covers written words. so the template cannot be copyrighted but the written instructions can be. 

As for "knock offs"...yes you can be in big trouble for "counterfeiting" certain goods...like "Coach" brand bags and trying to pass them off as the real thing. Federal charges can and have been placed against those in the "counterfeit" business...be it tangible goods, DVD's, CD's, etc..

The laws regarding copyright and counterfeiting are very specific and can be confusing to the layman. 

As to making items from a copyrighted pattern. One cannot use the copyrighted material of another for commercial purposes without the express permission of the copyright holder. It's easier to understand in other genres so let me use one as an example. Both John Gresham and Stephen King are best selling authors. You cannot take the words of one of their novels to create a screen play and sell to a movie director..that would be commercial gain off the copyrighted work of another. Even ONE sale is commercial gain. This is automatically extended to the copyright holder (under US law)...so the copyright holder of a knitting or crochet pattern doesn't even have to state this on a pattern.

While many have expressed frustration over copyright law, there are ways to avoid the entire situation..though you may not like them. You can create patterns of your own, copyright them and use them for your exclusive commercial gain. Another option is to contact the copyright holder and seek permission or a "contract" (expect to pay royalties to some) to do so.

Not long ago I was at an art fair and found a woman selling items that were crafted from a copyrighted pattern of someone I have a nodding acquaintance with. I asked the seller to hold up the item so I could photograph her with the item..she was quite pleased to do so, I also got one of her business cards with her email address on it. Upon arriving back home I emailed the photograph to the copyright holder. She emailed the woman immediately. The unknowing art fair vendor claimed ignorance of the law but has ceased selling this item until she can work out a contract with the copyright holder.

You never know where there are "prying eyes"...with a camera in their purse.

Copyrighted materials involve the livelihood of the creator. I doubt that you would like having a few dollars lifted from your purse every time you went out in public. You'd likely "bash" the thief with your purse and/or call the police. Copyright violation is exactly the same thing. 

In the economy we now live in..we should be doing everything we can to ensure that our "neighbors" are able to put a roof over their heads, feed their families and pay their bills...after all we are a "global" society, aren't we? My "neighbor" may be thousands of miles away..his/her skin another color and he/she may worship at a different alter but that person is still my "neighbor"...Mr. Rogers said so!


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

To protect yourselves, please read the disclaimer on the Tabberone site. And that's all I have to say on the subject.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

You don't find those disclaimers on the US web site..which should be a clue as to how reliable the Tabberone site is.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

gina said:


> Exactly, there would be knockoff lawsuits constantly.


Do you really believe that a top designer turns his back and shrugs his shoulders when a high street chain of shops use his design? 
It's stated here that the duplicate design is in the shops practically overnight. Don't you think that this is because they have already bought the copyright and have the design boxed ready to go once the fashion show has taken place? No company....even those using the sweat shops...would manage to do this. As I stated before have you not considered that this is a good move by the actual designer and not down to the high street shop just taking the design and copying it.
The market for very high priced one off designs will not be that great...so could it be that the designer isn't putting all his eggs into one basket and his using his loaf?
We all oh and sigh at that beautiful designer dress which we know we could never afford....what a brilliant advert that is for the one that suddenly becomes available in the high street shop. And the designer...having sold the rights for the use of his design...is making extra bucks.

And be completely honest here. If you payed for your daughter/grand daughter to go to art college...funded her to go on to university.....saw her struggle to get her degree...watched her sit up through the night to meet a deadline only for your neighbor to steal her design and put it on the net for free....would you then say "well it's OK " and tell your daughter/granddaughter to "sit down, stop whinging and start all over again designing a different pattern". If patterns where that easy to write we wouldn't be buying them or taking them we would be drawing/writing our own.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

If a designer sells off rights to a design..you'd better believe that a contract involving royalties is involved. I know because I'm in the business! Designers do not enter into contracts with third rate retailers, unless your name is Martha Stewart or Paula Deen!

Ever hear the term "box office poison"? That applies to "NAMES" in various industries. When you are flying high you can ink contracts with the best..when you are down and out...well you end up the local "blue light special". Even those who earned the designation of "poison" are extended t he right to decide who and what get's access to their name/designs. YOU do not get to decide..THEY do!


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

If you go to Help then forum rules you can see for yourself the following.......

Do not post images with copyrighted patterns or other content of others without their permission. It's OK to post a link to the author's site that shows the pattern, but don't copy and post the pattern here.

Complying with all laws (including copyright) is the sole responsibility of each individual user. Forum administration is not responsible for user-generated/uploaded/posted content. We serve merely as communications platform and are protected by the safe harbor provisions of the copyright law and/or DMCA.

Obviously admin knows more than we do.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Sue, if those were the only type of copyright infringements that happened on the internet...life would be so easy. Have you read the posts by those who think that once they have purchased a copy of a pattern and think they can just do as they please with it? We had a member (haven't seen posts from her in years) who said "I paid for it so I can do what I d**m well please with it"...obviously someone not feeding hungry mouths with income from pattern sales!

Copyright involves real people with real bills and real families that need to be housed and fed.

The income from my pattern sales cover the costs of the copayments for the eye specialist that treats me for glaucoma and the co payments for my glaucoma medications..both of which keep me from going blind!

Please don't tell me that I'm "greedy" for asserting my rights under US copyright law...I'm merely trying to get by.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

Courier770, I think that you must have misread some of the things that I have written. I can well understand why you feel the way you do and I agree with you entirely.
I have stated that it isn't easy to write a pattern and therefore I believe that those that can/do are entitle to be able to sell it without fear of it being given away to all and sundry. 
If people where asked to knit something (with yarn and pattern supplied) by a total stranger then I suspect that they would want to be paid for their time and their expertise and yet these same people expect the pattern writer to say nothing when their work is given away for free or at worst resold. 
I find it hard to believe that copyright doesn't exist. There was a debate on her some time ago and numerous people stated that they had fallen foul of the law because they were under the wrong impression.
There was also a case over here where a lady had knit from a pattern countless garments for sale. She was caught selling these items at a craft fair and the last that I heard (in the press) was that she may have her knitting machines taken from her. I don't know what the outcome was...nor can I now prove this to be true...but at the time I had no reason to doubt it. Though having said this you can't believe all that is written...be it on the net or in the tabloids....that includes the article that started this debate!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> To protect yourselves, please read the disclaimer on the Tabberone site. And that's all I have to say on the subject.





courier770 said:


> You don't find those disclaimers on the US web site..which should be a clue as to how reliable the Tabberone site is.


This is the site presented -- http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/CopyrightLaw/Patterns.shtml
At the Top of the Page -- Home | Site Index | Disclaimer | Email Me! 
Click on "disclaimer" -- http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/disclaimer.shtml


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

Here is another explanation of copyright laws. Read this one and then decide which of the two you believe.
http://www.vogueknitting.com/magazine/article_archive/a_matter_of_principle.aspx

There are many more out there, don't just believe the first you read and ignore all the others.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

The biggest problem with copyright is t hat people think they are entitled to apply it as they see fit..that's not the case at all. People will post links to websites like Tabborone..which clearly states they are NOT legal experts when it come to copyright law...but take what they say as verbatim law.

When one makes their living by copyright it's a whole new ballgame. You get pretty short tempered when people take food off the table your children eat from, your tolerance for "sharing" gets pretty short when you can't pay the utility bills because so many people decided to "share" your copyrighted material with 10 friends who then each shared it with another 10 friends..as your children do without.

Those who say that people who challenge copyright are left with "egg on their face" were NOT in a courtroom with me years ago when I won a copyright violation case. The day that settlement check arrived..my children ate well. There was meat on the table for the first time in a long time.

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for thieves.


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## Knitophile (Oct 22, 2012)

susieknitter said:


> Here is another explanation of copyright laws. Read this one and then decide which of the two you believe.
> http://www.vogueknitting.com/magazine/article_archive/a_matter_of_principle.aspx
> 
> There are many more out there, don't just believe the first you read and ignore all the others.


This is a good summary of U.S. copyright law. Note however that the reference to the copyright term expiring 70 years from the death of the author is unique to copyright protection in the U.S. In Canada, for example, the copyright term expires 50 years from the end of the year in which the author, i.e., the creator of the work in question, died. There are other differences as well. However, the summary from Vogue is a good one. Thanks for providing it.


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## Padittle (Nov 8, 2012)

courier770 said:


> The biggest problem with copyright is t hat people think they are entitled to apply it as they see fit..that's not the case at all. People will post links to websites like Tabborone..which clearly states they are NOT legal experts when it come to copyright law...but take what they say as verbatim law.
> 
> When one makes their living by copyright it's a whole new ballgame. You get pretty short tempered when people take food off the table your children eat from, your tolerance for "sharing" gets pretty short when you can't pay the utility bills because so many people decided to "share" your copyrighted material with 10 friends who then each shared it with another 10 friends..as your children do without.
> 
> ...


Could you/would you post a link to the court decision in your case, please? I think these decisions are a matter of public record & that there should be an electronic version of the legal decision for us to read. Perhaps this will put this matter to rest (at least for the time being!) Thanks in advance.


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## Kathie (Mar 29, 2011)

Padittle said:


> Could you/would you post a link to the court decision in your case, please? I think these decisions are a matter of public record & that there should be an electronic version of the legal decision for us to read. Perhaps this will put this matter to rest (at least for the time being!) Thanks in advance.


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## gozolady (Jul 20, 2013)

It is my opinion that whatever anyone here tells us all, it will not ALL apply in our countries of residence. Maybe where all of it does apply, there will be additional clauses that are specific to a country, or a publisher, or a designer. 
It is up to each individual to be certain that what they do with their purchased/downloaded obtained for free patterns is complying with the law. Therefore is it up to each individual to find that information out for themselves.


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

padittle, Let me explain a few things about my case. 

The case did NOT involve knitting or crochet patters.

It involved duplication and distribution of my copyrighted material and the use of that material for commercial purposes.

You'll notice I do not use my name, or reveal my location on my avitar. I NEVER post my real name on any public forum, which KP is. We warn people to not do this.

I'm not going to provide a link to this case, which contains information about myself. I hope you understand.


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## Padittle (Nov 8, 2012)

courier770 said:


> padittle, Let me explain a few things about my case.
> 
> The case did NOT involve knitting or crochet patters.
> 
> ...


I understand. I also realize that the rules about copyright infringement are different all around the world & for different mediums. I just thought it might help those of us who struggle with what is right - give us an actual example. I guess we have to leave it that each has to decide for her/him self.


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## gozolady (Jul 20, 2013)

Padittle said:


> I understand. I also realize that the rules about copyright infringement are different all around the world & for different mediums. I just thought it might help those of us who struggle with what is right - give us an actual example. I guess we have to leave it that each has to decide for her/him self.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## courier770 (Jan 29, 2011)

Actually copyright in the US is applied to all written mediums the same. The works of songwriters, best selling authors, knitting/crochet pattern designers, poets, (the list is sort of endless) are protected in the same manner. The songs penned by Michael Jackson, Dolly Parton (add a few thousand others), Novels written by John Gresham, Stephen King (add many others) and the knitting and or crochet patterns of Debbi Bliss, (countless others) are ALL protected in the same fashion. Even employee training manuals that corporations publish are protected by copyright...the very same copyright that protects my knitting patterns.

Here's an interesting fact. Dolly Parton wrote the words to "I will always love you" and she recorded it ..nice tune that had moderate success on the Country Charts...Then along came Whitney Houston....a really good tune was needed for her movie..."The Bodyguard. Ms. Parton allowed use of her song to Ms. Houston (for a price)...and Ms. Parton made millions off that very wise move. On the other hand Ms. Houston didn't make nearly as much money as Ms. Parton but she did receive more notoriety due to the song. Ms. Parton still holds copyright on that song too.

Copyright is a very interesting topic but it's not a topic that can be fairly "debated"..as you have pointed out. Laws for each country are different.

US Copyright law needs a little fine tuning and better enforcement.

A yarn company is holding a design contest (I'm not going to name it). The designer of the "winning" sweater will receive $200.00, be reimbursed the cost of the yarn and their name will appear on the pattern....which means that the winner will have to, legally, relinquish copyright to the yarn company in order to receive the prize. This isn't a good deal at all!


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

courier770 said:


> A yarn company is holding a design contest (I'm not going to name it). The designer of the "winning" sweater will receive $200.00, be reimbursed the cost of the yarn and their name will appear on the pattern....which means that the winner will have to, legally, relinquish copyright to the yarn company in order to receive the prize. This isn't a good deal at all!


No need to be so secretive.
It is widely announced on the net.
http://kelbournewoolens.com/blog/5161

Extracted from their pdf rules/info packet download...
Quote --
The winning sweater design will become the property of Kelbourne Woolens throughout the publication process,
*copyright of the original pattern text will revert back to you one year from publication (May 15th, 2015).*
Even after copyright has been reverted, the tech edited pattern, including photography, layout, graphics and the final pdf remain the copyright of Kelbourne Woolens. -- End Quote

You will be under contract and not be able to sell/give away that particular pattern until after they relinquish the rights back to you.
And meaning you will have to make your own sweater (or use your submitted one) and use a photo of that, not their photo.
And reformat the pattern instructions to become your own (or use your original).

May be a good deal for some who want the exposure!! 
They will be paying you for exclusive use and exposure of your pattern for ONE YEAR.
They can reach thousands of people in that one year.
Using Their name to promote Your name and pattern.

For those interested, I say go for it. And only you can determine whether it is worth it or not.
Don't let anyone spoil your dreams.
If you don't win this one, there are/will be others.
Enjoy, and Good luck if you choose to do so.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I don't want to put people off from having a go and entering the competition, I wish anyone that does the best of luck. Having said this I can't help but think that this is a brilliant marketing ploy by the company. How many budding designers do you think will have a go and therefore how many extra sales of the stated yarn do you think that this will create? Then of course there is the fact that they are saving on paying a designer and of course they will be getting free advertising.


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## Knitophile (Oct 22, 2012)

see below


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## Knitophile (Oct 22, 2012)

galaxycraft said:


> No need to be so secretive.
> It is widely announced on the net.
> http://kelbournewoolens.com/blog/5161
> 
> ...


Given that the copyright in the original pattern reverts to the author after the first year, the terms and conditions are quite reasonable for an unknown designer if the designer will be named on the pattern distributed by the company. If anyone is interested in this opportunity, look to see how this is addressed in the rules.


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## galaxycraft (Feb 15, 2011)

Knitophile said:


> Given that the copyright in the original pattern reverts to the author after the first year, the terms and conditions are quite reasonable for an unknown designer if the designer will be named on the pattern distributed by the company. If anyone is interested in this opportunity, look to see how this is addressed in the rules.


Quote from their page ...
"Sweet. What do I win?

If you win, you will receive $200 for the design and written instructions for the winning sweater, reimbursement for the purchase price of all yarn used, an interview on kelbournewoolens.com/blog featuring you and your design and, last but not least, your pattern will be included, *with your name listed as the designer*, in Kelbourne Woolens Spring/Summer 2014 collection. The preview for the collection will be available April 15, with a pattern release date of May 15. --End Quote

I think it would be a great opportunity for an unknown designer.


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