# Anyone else concerned/confused about the new re-masking orders ?



## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

I know I am ! I keep trying to get my head around this sudden change and I just don’t get it ! Especially since we live in Connecticut and have been do a very good job battling Covid


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Wear a mask when in indoor public places.


----------



## Candycounter1 (Mar 28, 2017)

I am waiting & wondering what our governor is planning to do, but because of the Delta variant & it does not matter if you were vaccinated or not, and I am vaccinated, the masks may be coming back. And Because of all the people who are not vaccinated that D variant is attacking the unvaccinated & now we will be having to wear masks again:sm25:
Damn it damn it:sm18:


----------



## glendajean (Nov 1, 2012)

I live for 5 miles Mexican border and the next town west is La Jolla. I am fully vaccinated, but I have never given up my mask when shopping. Today is Friday so the supermarket was crowded, but I’ll bet there weren’t three people without masks. This part of the state started wearing masks when it was first advised and we haven’t quit yet. Of course there are a few hold outs who refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated, but they are the minority.
This is not a criticism of any one or any area that has not been hit by Covid or Delta and does not feel the need for masks. I’m just telling you how it is where I live.


----------



## LEE1313 (Jan 25, 2011)

Well Cape Cod wants to THANK all the covidiots who were in P-town July 4th and caused the mass spread and upped the cases to over 900+..... ugh. Some were vax BUT not many wore masks.
And it just keeps spreading.
I am vax and wear my mask ALL the time; shopping, visiting even when I knit at the beach ( in my car).
I pray something changes quickly. I surely dont want to be in lock down again.

And kids going back to school will need to wear masks. Better safe than sorry. ( YES I know kids dont seem to catch it ).

I surely dont have the answers. BUT I am trying to stay alive until Covid is a distant memory ....


----------



## Naughty Knitter (Apr 1, 2011)

As long as the covid variants are active, I am wearing my mask when shopping. I do not attend indoor functions because I know there are unvaccinated people there that do not give a damn about my welfare. When I have to wait for someone that has a doctor appt, I either stay in my car or sit outside. I do not need a mandate by the govt to exercise caution and protect others.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

The advice follows the science and the science studies the rates of infection and death as they occur. The country was moving toward recovery to a more normal life until the delta variant started spreading. It has been found to be more contagious and possibly more deadly than "A" strain that killed over 600,000 Americans in 2020 and into 2021.

If you want to maintain your good job, promote vaccinations among the unvaccinated and mask up so the unmasked unvaccinated don't send your infection rates skyrocketing again.

As for me, I'd rather wear a mask as I go about living my life than wear a ventilator as I lie gasping for breath.



RosieC said:


> I know I am ! I keep trying to get my head around this sudden change and I just don't get it ! Especially since we live in Connecticut and have been do a very good job battling Covid


----------



## Ellebelle (Oct 11, 2017)

Regardless of orders and rules ....

I am double vaccinated and will hug friends and family who are also double vaccinated. However, in public indoor spaces I will continue to wear a mask and keep at least six feet distance from others. And keep my distance from the the general public outdoors too.

Waiting to see what happens this fall, when the kids go back to school and people start migrating indoors.


----------



## gramjo (Nov 20, 2012)

As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. Due to health concerns husband and I have never stopped masking in public indoor places. And still avoid going anywhere whenever possible. The good news is that we have many fully vaccinated friends and family and can enjoy time with them in our home, something that was unthinkable in 2020. We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

gramjo said:


> As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. Due to health concerns husband and I have never stopped masking in public indoor places. And still avoid going anywhere whenever possible. The good news is that we have many fully vaccinated friends and family and can enjoy time with them in our home, something that was unthinkable in 2020. We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


That sounds very sensible.


----------



## Ellebelle (Oct 11, 2017)

gramjo said:


> As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. Due to health concerns husband and I have never stopped masking in public indoor places. And still avoid going anywhere whenever possible. The good news is that we have many fully vaccinated friends and family and can enjoy time with them in our home, something that was unthinkable in 2020. We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


I've found the same thing. There are things we absolutely did not do in 2020; and don't really miss 'em anymore.


----------



## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

We haven't had any outbreaks near us but we are still following the masking orders - I know I whinge at times but I know it is best to be safe than sorry. I'm all for everyone getting the jab and wearing the mask!!! I'm fully vaccinated but I'm still amazed at how many people are still avoiding getting vaccinated - they keep saying "I'm going to wait a while" - if EVERYONE said that no-one would be vaccinated. You just can't tell some people.


----------



## mattie cat (Jun 5, 2013)

I have not given up wearing a mask indoors and outdoors if around people. I don't need a Governor or anyone else to tell me if it is ok to go maskless. Common sense should dictate not politicians. I have lived like a hermit for about 18 months and can do it again.
I am also fully vaccinated and would take the third dose in a heartbeat.


----------



## Hudson (Mar 3, 2011)

Been wearing masks for months and will continue to do so. Fully vaccinated in Feb/March.


----------



## Mitzi (May 8, 2011)

I'm with those of you who are fully vaccinated, still not going anywhere I don't have to, wearing masks everywhere I go outside and inside, unless in my own home & garden with no one around. Common sense and caring for self and others is something everyone doesn't have.


----------



## Reita (Dec 8, 2014)

I am fully vaccinated but, I don't know about the other person. I still wear my masks to the stores & I know what 6 ft. distance is, unlike some of these Yahoo's. I don't know if they are stupid or uneducated. They are the ones who should stay home not us. I'm sorry about my little rant but, I'm tired of staying home all the time while, they go out & do whatever. Reita


----------



## Evie RM (Sep 19, 2012)

It varies from state to state and in states from county to county. You just have to know the rules of where you live or what county you travel to.


----------



## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

The reality is that you can still contract covid even if you are double jabbed but you are much less likely to become seriously ill or die. Also children are contracting the virus and some are being hospitalised. My son in law (double jabbed)and 4yr old grandson tested positive 6days after contact with a positive case, 8yr old 9days later and 12yr old a further 6 days later all in the same household. They have been in isolation for almost a month, bizarrely my daughter is still negative and has had an antibody test which is also negative 
I agree that any masking is better than none and the more people that do the better. Although mask wearing is a personal choice and not mandatory most people I see are continuing to wear one and it does look as if our case numbers could be falling Let’s hope so


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Wear a mask when in indoor public places.


 Yes! That is what I am doing. The problem is the Delta variant, which is now the dominant strain.


----------



## emuears (Oct 13, 2012)

Yes we were doing very well until the Delta strain arrived and now we are in full lockdown and have been for many weeks, it spreads like a wild fire and we must get it under control or more people will die. I haven’t left our house for two months even though I am fully vaccinated, we must obey or we will be in lockdown for many more months to come. Unfortunately there is no vaccination for stupid.


----------



## mattie cat (Jun 5, 2013)

bevvyreay said:


> The reality is that you can still contract covid even if you are double jabbed but you are much less likely to become seriously ill or die. Also children are contracting the virus and some are being hospitalised. My son in law (double jabbed)and 4yr old grandson tested positive 6days after contact with a positive case, 8yr old 9days later and 12yr old a further 6 days later all in the same household. They have been in isolation for almost a month, bizarrely my daughter is still negative and has had an antibody test which is also negative
> I agree that any masking is better than none and the more people that do the better. Although mask wearing is a personal choice and not mandatory most people I see are continuing to wear one and it does look as if our case numbers could be falling Let's hope so


So sorry to hear about your family. I will pray that they all recover with no lingering problems


----------



## MMWRay (Dec 2, 2016)

This world is like a giant petri dish. All the active Covid disease allows variants, like the delta strain, to develop as the virus mutates. If we were all vaccinated the virus would not have the opportunity to mutate. That is what the drive to herd immunity was all about, stopping the chance of variants.
Well due to the dishonesty of the unvaccinated general public, not wearing masks because they can not be identified by sight, we are all going to have to wear masks to compensate for the dishonest. I seldom go in big box stores if I can help it but I have noticed that when I do there are not 40% of the people in there wearing masks. There should be for my area if the unvaccinated were being honest. And that isn't even counting people like me that are vaccinated and still wear a mask.
It is just a sad reflection of the selfishness and stupidity of our general population.


----------



## mirium (May 14, 2013)

What's really upsetting the experts isn't the Delta variant (although that's worrying) -- it's the variants in the future. Every time someone becomes infected, there could be a mutation that leads to a really nasty variant. Delta is mostly more contagious. What if we get one that's more deadly and the vaccine we have doesn't work against it? 

The way to avoid that is to lower the number of infections -- vaccinated asymptomatic people, unvaccinated, kids, everyone. Once enough people are vaccinated to stop the variants we have, it'll stop infecting new people and having a chance to mutate into a variant we can't defend against (yet). That's the push to get everyone vaccinated. The masks help slow down infections too. That's the push to wear masks.


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

My husband and I are fully vaccinated but we have never stopped wearing masks. Such a simple thing to do to protect ourselves and others. Even before the virus depending on what I was doing I wore a mask because of my allergies. I can not understand the mind set of those who refuse to wear one.
Our county went 4 weeks with no new cases and now the number is going up again. Makes me so mad because we were winning and now here we go again and so many will get sick and die because of a few who only care about themselves.
Rant over!


----------



## bettyirene (Apr 5, 2012)

If we get caught without a mask in Sydney, there is a $500 fine......even if you are out walking and not wearing a mask, you MUST carry one with you.


----------



## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

We have had no locally acquired cases of Covid in Canberra for over 380 days or so. Even so we are classed as a red zone by some states, presumably because Canberra is small and inside NSW. With the Delta variant being such a problem now, I often wear a mask when I go shopping and others do also. I haven't had a vax yet, but have decided I will bite the bullet and get one sooner rather than later. They are only offering Astra Zeneca to over 60's but I believe Pfizer is better, so was going to hold out till they will allow us to have that one or Moderna which is coming around October. DH is getting his next Weds and I will go the week after. :sm01:


----------



## PatK27 (Oct 13, 2016)

I have been wearing a mask and am vaccinated.
I was really upset at the grocery today. I say about 80% we’re NOT wearing a mask.
It’s like everyone just got really stupid. Last week about 80 were wearing masks.


----------



## chooksnpinkroses (Aug 23, 2012)

Lynjoywal said:


> ... I'm still amazed at how many people are still avoiding getting vaccinated - they keep saying "I'm going to wait a while" - if EVERYONE said that no-one would be vaccinated. You just can't tell some people.


I feel as though we are all 'guinea pigs' as the vaccines were not well tested to my knowledge. I think some vaccines are better than others. Astra Zeneca has been shown to be a problem with causes a blood clotting disorder in some people and a few have died. The risk of this happening gets readjusted all the time. First it was 1 in 400,000, now it's higher, 1 in 180,000 I believe. Even so I have decided to get it anyway and pray I/we don't have problems...


----------



## tobo11 (Apr 1, 2017)

Naughty Knitter said:


> As long as the covid variants are active, I am wearing my mask when shopping. I do not attend indoor functions because I know there are unvaccinated people there that do not give a damn about my welfare. When I have to wait for someone that has a doctor appt, I either stay in my car or sit outside. I do not need a mandate by the govt to exercise caution and protect others.


It just common sense, isn't it? But common sense seems to be in short supply.


----------



## tobo11 (Apr 1, 2017)

MarilynKnits said:


> The advice follows the science and the science studies the rates of infection and death as they occur. The country was moving toward recovery to a more normal life until the delta variant started spreading. It has been found to be more contagious and possibly more deadly than "A" strain that killed over 600,000 Americans in 2020 and into 2021.
> 
> If you want to maintain your good job, promote vaccinations among the unvaccinated and mask up so the unmasked unvaccinated don't send your infection rates skyrocketing again.
> 
> As for me, I'd rather wear a mask as I go about living my life than wear a ventilator as I lie gasping for breath.


So true! Younger people think they are immortal and it won't happen to them


----------



## tobo11 (Apr 1, 2017)

gramjo said:


> As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. Due to health concerns husband and I have never stopped masking in public indoor places. And still avoid going anywhere whenever possible. The good news is that we have many fully vaccinated friends and family and can enjoy time with them in our home, something that was unthinkable in 2020. We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


My doctor told me to wear a mask when in crowds or public with people who may not be vaccinated.


----------



## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

I never stopped wearing mine, and I'm fully vaccinated.

Use common sense. If wearing a mask will help to avoid the spread the virus, wear one. 

Think about it, if you know someone with the flu or a cold, you avoid going near them if possible, right? You tell kids to cover their nose or mouth when they cough or sneeze so they don't spread germs. You wash your hands before eating to avoid ingesting germs from your hands. 

There is a huge surge in COVID cases, mostly among the unvaccinated, and the Delta variant is more contagious than the original virus. There is no way to know if all the people you come into contact with are vaccinated, because people can lie about it. You are near strangers at the grocery store, the pharmacy, the shopping center, the library, church, on the bus or train, at work, anywhere you go.

So, why would you be confused about wearing a mask? Anything that can prevent the spread of the virus is a good thing - regardless of what some politicians have been saying.


----------



## tobo11 (Apr 1, 2017)

Lynjoywal said:


> We haven't had any outbreaks near us but we are still following the masking orders - I know I whinge at times but I know it is best to be safe than sorry. I'm all for everyone getting the jab and wearing the mask!!! I'm fully vaccinated but I'm still amazed at how many people are still avoiding getting vaccinated - they keep saying "I'm going to wait a while" - if EVERYONE said that no-one would be vaccinated. You just can't tell some people.


Are they waiting to get the virus and die? Silly people. We have them here too some of them in Congress.


----------



## OResmerelda (Jan 16, 2015)

I've never stopped wearing a mask in public, indoor spaces so no confusion for me.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

chooksnpinkroses said:


> I feel as though we are all 'guinea pigs' as the vaccines were not well tested to my knowledge. I think some vaccines are better than others. Astra Zeneca has been shown to be a problem with causes a blood clotting disorder in some people and a few have died. The risk of this happening gets readjusted all the time. First it was 1 in 400,000, now it's higher, 1 in 180,000 I believe. Even so I have decided to get it anyway and pray I/we don't have problems...


The vaccines were well tested. The problem is that the virus mutated into new strains, and the Delta variant is an extremely contagious strain. It's also evident that it can cause positive test results even in vaccinated people, and that they can then pass it to others.
The virus could have been stopped if everyone had gotten vaccinated. But the virus continued to spread, and thus it was able to mutate, because people refused to be vaccinated. It's the unvaccinated people who are responsible for this new and very virulent surge.
Millions around the world have been vaccinated, and there have been very few serious reactions to the injections. That's the proof. 
Too bad ignorance and misguided political and ideological loyalties stood in the way of a solution to Covid. Now there will be yet more suffering and death.


----------



## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

Well, parts of S.E. Queensland are now going into lock down for 3 days minimum. This could be extended depending upon how quickly the contacts of infected people can be determined. We've been wearing masks for the last couple of weeks but this outbreak seems to come from a Medical student who was doing tutoring in many homes, etc. and, as students haven't been included in the mask wearing mandate, it could really spread quickly. Two schools have been put into complete lock down plus the University in the same area.


----------



## maggiex4 (Feb 25, 2017)

I’m not confused at all, you have to wear the face covering when we are inside the market’s or restaurant.


----------



## Oltoothless (Oct 8, 2018)

My fam and I are fully vaccinated, and mask all the time. Since DeSantis misread the Statue of Liberty, we are scared to death. Apparently, he thought it said "Give me your tired, your sick, your tourist dollars, and Spread them around, people!"


----------



## Rjkda (Aug 9, 2016)

PatK27 said:


> I have been wearing a mask and am vaccinated.
> I was really upset at the grocery today. I say about 80% we're NOT wearing a mask.
> It's like everyone just got really stupid. Last week about 80 were wearing masks.


Yes! And today I was confronted by another customer, which caused me to bite my tongue so hard! There was only one checkout like open and the lady in front of me had a very full cart. I only had four items. I didn't put my items on the belt, as I figured another lane would soon open. I was masked and kept my distance. A guy in back of me told me I could set my stuff down. I nodded politely (without engaging in conversation). He said, "Aren't you in line?" I nodded again. He paused and said, "Oh, you are one of THOSE people." No reaction from me. He continued, "2020 BC." Still no reaction from me; then the next checkout lane opened up and I took my four items to it and got away from the guy. Shwew!


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Rjkda said:


> Yes! And today I was confronted by another customer, which caused me to bite my tongue so hard! There was only one checkout like open and the lady in front of me had a very full cart. I only had four items. I didn't put my items on the belt, as I figured another lane would soon open. I was masked and kept my distance. A guy in back of me told me I could set my stuff down. I nodded politely (without engaging in conversation). He said, "Aren't you in line?" I nodded again. He paused and said, "Oh, you are one of THOSE people." No reaction from me. He continued, "2020 BC." Still no reaction from me; then the next checkout lane opened up and I took my four items to it and got away from the guy. Shwew!


Ignorant lout! Sorry you had to put up with him!


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

I took a bit of a break from my mask, for a short while (I am vaccinated and numbers were down) wearing it only in crowded places when I couldn’t social distance. Now, with the Delta variant and people being as stupid or more stupid than they were a few months ago I am masking again. I knew my respite would be temporary but I did enjoy it while it lasted.

A friend was telling me when her kids were visiting they had a hard time finding a restaurant to eat in (fast food or family style as they have young kids) during the the mid to late evening hours. She said several they tried had their dining rooms closed or had cut their hours. Each place apologized profusely but explained that they just couldn’t find staff to stay open later or to staff dining rooms so had to put their resources into keeping the kitchen open. Couple that with an article I read awhile back about workers leaving what they saw as dead end jobs in retail (and fast food is retail) and our economy as we knew it has to adapt or fail. I’m seeing the same staffing shortages is slightly more upscale restaurants.

I don’t think there will be another shut down in the US unless things get much worse. I think the economy is undergoing a sea change as people question not only do they need certain products and services, but the safest way to obtain them. Add to that the number of entry level workers that are questioning, where and how they work and we are going to see more business closures.

A friend keeps saying a job is a job and I agree in that I don’t consider any job beneath me, but would YOU work at or near minimum wage, dealing with an increasingly idiotic public, knowing that not only you are at risk in a pandemic, but you are risking the health of your loved ones (especially those who can’t be vaccinated) if you had any other choice. I wouldn’t. I abhor debt, but I’d go into debt to qualify for better safer job, rather than work retail or food service dealing with the public in this day and age.

So next time any of you feel like ranting about your rights, stop and ask yourself about the right of a parent to work without increased risk of taking a potentially deadly disease home to his/her preschooler. Think about it when you are standing in a long line because the grocery store can’t hire enough cashiers and when you can’t get fast food because the store can’t hire enough workers to keep the business open. Anti vaxers aren’t the cause of this worker shortage, but attitudes that treat entry level workers and their families as expendable sure are a factor.


----------



## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

KateLyn11 said:


> I took a bit of a break from my mask, for a short while (I am vaccinated and numbers were down) wearing it only in crowded places when I couldn't social distance. Now, with the Delta variant and people being as stupid or more stupid than they were a few months ago I am masking again. I knew my respite would be temporary but I did enjoy it while it lasted.
> 
> A friend was telling me when her kids were visiting they had a hard time finding a restaurant to eat in (fast food or family style as they have young kids) during the the mid to late evening hours. She said several they tried had their dining rooms closed or had cut their hours. Each place apologized profusely but explained that they just couldn't find staff to stay open later or to staff dining rooms so had to put their resources into keeping the kitchen open. Couple that with an article I read awhile back about workers leaving what they saw as dead end jobs in retail (and fast food is retail) and our economy as we knew it has to adapt or fail. I'm seeing the same staffing shortages is slightly more upscale restaurants.
> 
> ...


But anti-vaxxers have a lot to answer for in regard to being able to rely on herd immunity to keep the people, who are exempt from being vaccinated, safe into the future. Sorry but it just has to be said!!!!


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

I am curious, I keep wondering why someone would refuse a vaccine. I only know 2 folks who have, they are twin sisters, the dominant one has made the decision not get the vacs so the more submissive one dare not. I have tried everything I can to get the sub one ,who was married into my family for a while, to get the shots but she has refused. The twins both have mental health problems so I have not yet got a reason why. I find it very frustrating as I have given support to the one twin for 30 odd years and now I can't let her even visit me. She only wears a mask if in an area where she has no choice, eg on a bus, and she is out and about all day long and in and out of many homes as she earns extra money by doing regular little jobs for quite a few shut ins. I think she is a bomb waiting to go off but I can't reach her.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> I am curious, I keep wondering why someone would refuse a vaccine. I only know 2 folks who have, they are twin sisters, the dominant one has made the decision not get the vacs so the more submissive one dare not. I have tried everything I can to get the sub one ,who was married into my family for a while, to get the shots but she has refused. The twins both have mental health problems so I have not yet got a reason why. I find it very frustrating as I have given support to the one twin for 30 odd years and now I can't let her even visit me. She only wears a mask if in an area where she has no choice, eg on a bus, and she is out and about all day long and in and out of many homes as she earns extra money by doing regular little jobs for quite a few shut ins. I think she is a bomb waiting to go off but I can't reach her.


We can't enter a post office or the DMV without a mask. That's fine with me now that we are dealing with the Delta strain. I shudder to think what new strains may develop!


----------



## Lynjoywal (Jun 3, 2019)

Hopefully, one day people who have been fully vaccinated will be able to claim more freedom that those who refuse to be vaccinated. I think some people, if they thought they could go without a mask for instance, may think twice about the benefits of being fully vaccinated. Just a thought.
That would only work if not wearing a mask incurred decent penalties.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Lynjoywal said:


> But anti-vaxxers have a lot to answer for in regard to being able to rely on herd immunity to keep the people, who are exempt from being vaccinated, safe into the future. Sorry but it just has to be said!!!!


I believe that they contribute to it, not cause it. I'll be curious going forward as the impact of not getting vaccinated is felt closer to home. I am former military, I had to accept that to not be vaccinated for numerous diseases while working and living in close quarters made me a risk to my fellow service people. As a nurse I had to accept that as much as I disliked getting the flu vaccine every year, not getting it made me a hazard to my patients, especially the most vulnerable ones. Some days you just need to suck it up and accept that some risks are lower for you, than related risks are for your "tribe" however you define that.


----------



## mattie cat (Jun 5, 2013)

The anti-vaxers are everywhere. I have belonged to my church for many years but haven't attended since they reopened because there are many that refuse the vaccine.


----------



## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

mattie cat said:


> So sorry to hear about your family. I will pray that they all recover with no lingering problems


Thankyou. They all appear to be fine. My daughter did not contract it and my son in law had mild symptoms I'm assuming because they had both been doubly vaccinated and luckily the children also weren't seriously ill
My opinion is vaccine hesitancy is killing people and risking those around them , the right to "breathe freely" is also killing people.


----------



## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

chooksnpinkroses said:


> I feel as though we are all 'guinea pigs' as the vaccines were not well tested to my knowledge. I think some vaccines are better than others. Astra Zeneca has been shown to be a problem with causes a blood clotting disorder in some people and a few have died. The risk of this happening gets readjusted all the time. First it was 1 in 400,000, now it's higher, 1 in 180,000 I believe. Even so I have decided to get it anyway and pray I/we don't have problems...


Scientists also said more people get clots from the contraceptive pill and they haven't banned that and that in that time frame fewer people died from blood clots than in normal times


----------



## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

I take my mask with me just incase I need it. (I am vaccinated


----------



## dcgmom (Jul 3, 2019)

Keep wearing your mask when you are out and about no matter where. Vaccinated people spread the virus. There are lots of kids out there who cannot be vaccinated yet, wear your mask to keep them all healthy.


----------



## rosw (Sep 19, 2011)

So much and yet so little is known. I read today that screens in offices etc no good as the Covid just floats up and over!
So I am going to continue with a mask in crowded situations. Will also help with the flu pandemic they say we will have this winter! No flu last year because we were masked and locked down!! Happy Days!
Enjoy your weekend


----------



## Woodsywife (Mar 9, 2014)

I've continued to wear my mask all along even though I'm vaccinated. To many people not vaccinated. And they can say they were when they aren't when asked. Children not vaccinated. Why would the "professionals" ever think children were immune, aren't they the ones who carry the colds and viruses to school???????? All these illegals crossing the border, most are positive, most refuse vaccine when they get here, yet we allow them to stay. We will never get it under contol until that stops.


----------



## DollieD (Mar 7, 2011)

Simply because the 'shots' are basically experimental, I have never un-masked, and won't, probably for a long time!
I have heard too much double-talk about: 'do this, do that, we have a new thing'....I will carry on as best I can, and follow my own mind!
There are NO experts!


----------



## Londonlady (Aug 22, 2017)

Boris lifted the last of the easing-of-lockdown measures on Monday, 19th July which included not having to wear a mask which seemed like madness considering at that time there were over 30,000 new Covid cases per day which continued to rise to over 50,000. He did however ask people to be responsible and I like to think they are being as the new cases have now dropped to half of what they were and steadily falling. I am fully vaccinated and still do not venture out much but when I do, like last Thursday when I went to the hairdressers, I wore a mask on public transport and my hairdresser has asked her customers to continue wearing their masks in the salon and to hand sanitise when we arrive and of course when arriving back home, I wash my hands thoroughly. Because of the drop in new cases the question is being asked is it because of the warm weather; or that the schools have finished for the summer or that more people (especially the younger ones) are now getting vaccinated. My thoughts are all 3 plus if people continue to act responsibly by wearing a mask and hand washing hopefully the figures of new cases will drop even further.


----------



## Caroline Currer (Feb 11, 2013)

Here, in Ontario, Canada, our shops and supermarkets insist on masks. I’m all in favour!


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

I'm going to a baby shower in Aug 2021.
I plan on wearing my mask even though
I've been vaccinated, because my SIL
won't get the vaccine. I don't think I
want the D covid. Her husband believes
our BIL got his stroke from the vaccine.
My DH thinks his brother is nuts. He said 
he agrees with me. DH is my driver; said
he will wear his mask, as well. I hope we
really tick off every one of the anti vaxers.


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Supposedly the vaccinated can spread the Delta variant. We’re all sick of masks, but hopefully they will help stop the spread of this more deadly version. There are a lot of mysteries around this virus. We’re trying to follow the science, but new data keeps coming to light and I think even the scientists are confused. I have a good mask on a lanyard—guess it’s time to use it again, darn it! Even though we’re in a well vaccinated state, it is tourist season and many of them are from unvaccinated areas. This virus could care less what your political affiliations may be.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Not at all confused! Use your head and mask if you are going to be out in public with people who likely aren't vaccinated. If everyone you are around is vaccinated use your own discretion.


----------



## GeriT01 (Jan 5, 2015)

LEE1313 said:


> Well Cape Cod wants to THANK all the covidiots who were in P-town July 4th and caused the mass spread and upped the cases to over 900+..... ugh. Some were vax BUT not many wore masks.
> And it just keeps spreading.
> I am vax and wear my mask ALL the time; shopping, visiting even when I knit at the beach ( in my car).
> I pray something changes quickly. I surely dont want to be in lock down again.
> ...


????????‍♀ I've been wearing a mask everywhere I go, yes a little inconvenient but possibly life saving. Not a big deal.????‍♀


----------



## GeriT01 (Jan 5, 2015)

LEE1313 said:


> Well Cape Cod wants to THANK all the covidiots who were in P-town July 4th and caused the mass spread and upped the cases to over 900+..... ugh. Some were vax BUT not many wore masks.
> And it just keeps spreading.
> I am vax and wear my mask ALL the time; shopping, visiting even when I knit at the beach ( in my car).
> I pray something changes quickly. I surely dont want to be in lock down again.
> ...


????????‍♀ Hello Linda, continue to stay safe and well.


----------



## Morningstar2 (Mar 27, 2019)

RosieC said:


> I know I am ! I keep trying to get my head around this sudden change and I just don't get it ! Especially since we live in Connecticut and have been do a very good job battling Covid


Bottom line, wear a mask whenever you're indoors with other people who are not immediate family or those you know are fully vaccinated.


----------



## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

I’m fully vaccinated and still wear a mask indoors when I venture out.


----------



## JanOS (Aug 30, 2013)

We are both vaxed, and have continued to wear our masks in public. It is not a huge burden to do, don't understand all the furor against wearing them. Just because people have to complain or be angry about everything. We aren't terrified, just being cautious. We are both in higher risk group is to age and some medical issues. Husband has copd so mask wearing is more of a comfort issue for him. Stop and think how flu and colds were down last year. It would be worth the minimal trouble of wearing one. Think how many times you have been in a restroom and people walk out without washing their hands. Yuck! We keep sanitizer with us and use it.


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

JanOS said:


> We are both vaxed, and have continued to wear our masks in public. It is not a huge burden to do, don't understand all the furor against wearing them. Just because people have to complain or be angry about everything. We aren't terrified, just being cautious. We are both in higher risk group is to age and some medical issues. Husband has copd so mask wearing is more of a comfort issue for him. Stop and think how flu and colds were down last year. It would be worth the minimal trouble of wearing one. Think how many times you have been in a restroom and people walk out without washing their hands. Yuck! We keep sanitizer with us and use it.


Quite a few consider the mask
wearing to be a sort of US Gov.
plot. Well, it is. This plot will 
weed out the undesirables.
There, I said it and I don't care!


----------



## hobbyknit (Jun 23, 2013)

Isn't it funny? every time they start getting through to the truth, covid pops up again?


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

crochetknit Deb said:


> Quite a few consider the mask
> wearing to be a sort of US Gov.
> plot. Well, it is. This plot will
> weed out the undesirables.
> There, I said it and I don't care!


We can only hope!


----------



## barbaralbb2119 (Sep 18, 2015)

I’m wearing my mask... everywhere/whenever I’m around people. That makes it easy to remember! ????????????‍♀


----------



## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

When in doubt, wear a mask, unless of course, you prefer a ventilator...it's that simply.


----------



## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

NRoberts said:


> I'm vaccinated. I'm done with masks.


You can still get and spread the highly contagious Delta Variant...does it really hurt you so much to wear a mask when indoor in public?


----------



## HOVE (May 6, 2016)

My life is precious to me and the lives of my loved ones. I will wear a mask and follow mask and vaccination guidelines as they evolve. I have seen and heard too much unnecessary death and suffering during my life time. I feel very fortunate to have accessed vaccinations.


----------



## JennyG12 (Jan 24, 2016)

pattibe said:


> You can still get and spread the highly contagious Delta Variant...does it really hurt you so much to wear a mask when indoor in public?


Many people thinks it really hurts so badly, they don't care about infecting others.
YES you can still get it and spread it!
That is why when doing grocery shopping, if there are alot of unmasked people in the store ... I walk right back out. Yes I am still wearing a mask EVERY time I go out in public. I still stay 6' apart from any person. People still want to 'crowd' you at the checkouts. I just say "back up 6' please". If they refuse, I just put my cart between them and me, so they are not anywhere close to the register belt and myself. Those checkout isles are small and short in distance.

I have heard in just the last week of 3 places/hospitals go on record stating that 75-84% of their new cases (variant D) are people who have already been vaccinated!
The news media doesn't report about that do they?! Just making it seem that ALL are unvax'd, which is far from the truth.
I do understand about trying to get to the unvax'd folks, but to report less than the whole numbers report is doing everyone an injustice/disservice.


----------



## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

I am fully vaccinated and I have to wear a mask when out. I am in lockdown here as is the whole of the Greater Sydney region and it will be that way until the 28th August or maybe longer if our cases don't stop rising.


----------



## jan m (Jul 5, 2011)

gramjo said:


> As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. ...


I just heard an expert at the University of Pennsylvania on NPR say that we are vulnerable to successive variants until 70-80% of the WORLD'S population is vaccinated. We seem to face a bleak future on this front.


----------



## Terra2 (Nov 6, 2017)

Nope, not confused at all. If you want to have at least a chance at surviving this pandemic, wear a mask when in a public place. Whether you like it or not.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

I understand this is a hot topic, but the name-calling and politicizing has got to stop. Just listen to how you sound. All that anger and hate. You, peeps, are better than that. Be kind to one another. You are doing more physical and mental harm to yourselves by hating on other people. Be kind to one another ... in word and deed.


----------



## leoanne (Feb 7, 2011)

I live in Massachusetts, have been fully vaccinated since March and are going to follow the new guidelines and the science. I have been reading about the 1918 flu which came back I. The fall with a vengeance.


----------



## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

leoanne said:


> I live in Massachusetts, have been fully vaccinated since March and are going to follow the new guidelines and the science. I have been reading about the 1918 flu which came back I. The fall with a vengeance.


I agree. Our state is issuing new mandates on Monday, and we will follow them.


----------



## dotcarp2000 (Sep 5, 2011)

We're all in a learning phase with this terribly devastating disease and that's why info keeps changing. Have patience. It wasnt much different with all the other diseases and their vaccines.


----------



## stirfry (Nov 3, 2011)

I am fully vaccinated but still wear my mask when out among people. I am like Mitzi and care about myself and should I get the Delta variant, spreading it to others. I don't see it as a big problem.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Granted the news is confusing, but this virus is ever-changing and the data must gathered and analyzed.However, I want to see us live.


----------



## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

It was announced on the news if you're not vaccinated....it's not "if" you get the virus but "when" you get it.....guaranteed you will get sick!


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

klrober said:


> It was announced on the news if you're not vaccinated....it's not "if" you get the virus but "when" you get it.....guaranteed you will get sick!


Not only that, but people who don't get vaccinated are statistically less likely to wear masks. They're likely to prioritize self interest and their perceived personal freedom over concern for others.


----------



## lovelandjanice (Aug 8, 2012)

RosieC said:


> I know I am ! I keep trying to get my head around this sudden change and I just don't get it ! Especially since we live in Connecticut and have been do a very good job battling Covid


The thing is we need to mask up before delta hits your area. Do you want to be the first one to be infected with the virus to know it is in your area?? We are such a global community and you can travel from Europe to USA and visa versa in just a few hours. The virus is not carrying bright neon signs saying "here I am". We know it is in our country so be proactive.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

.


----------



## MartyCare (Feb 16, 2011)

I'm not confused. I have been vaccinated, and I would rather wear a mask than take a chance with the Delta variety of COVID. 

The stores may say that I don't have to wear a mask on their premises. But I don't trust the stores in matters of my health. Reliable sources say if we are vaccinated we might catch the Delta variety, but we won't have to be hospitalized or die. I have higher standards than that for my health. I don't want to be sick, or contagious.

I don't trust unvaccinated people to always wear masks. Reasons vary, of course. But people who refuse to be vaccinated might also refuse to wear a mask. And nobody checks to see that unmasked people are vaccinated. I trust myself in matters of my health, with the advice of medical experts I trust. I am not confused at all.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

What’s so confusing? Covid cases are on the rise in Connecticut. Surely you’ve heard about this.


----------



## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

headlemk said:


> .


NO ONE has lied to you...Covid has killed over 600,000 people in this country alone. The vaccine is safe and affective. You stop with the lies and get your g-d vaccine.


----------



## marykelly (Oct 9, 2012)

Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues?


One hears an awful lot of nonsense, but yours is truly world-class. Pffft!


----------



## JennyG12 (Jan 24, 2016)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


I remember that being stated at the onset of the pandemic .... but NOT since. Where have you been?

No hype - just ALL desease and infection rates being caused by non-believers and being self-centered.
Only 3 weeks ago, I still had someone at the checkout line at the grocers declare it is all a hoax!
I asked her if she really believed that, why is she wearing a mask?? She just laughed. My reply - "IT IS NOT A LAUGHING MATTER!"


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


That's just not true! The right kinds of masks, worn properly, protect the wearer as well as others. That's been demonstrated over and over. 
The disease isn't hype. Over 600,000 people have died in the US from Covid. Ask their families if it's hype. 
But with your sceptical attitude, you're making yourself vulnerable to this virus. The Delta strain is as contagious as chicken pox, which can be contracted by passing an infected person in the grocery store.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


The story that masks don't make any difference and cause issues has been debunked so thoroughly and so many times I can't believe that you are still parroting this false theory.

I have COPD, I wore a mask around people indoors and out until a month after i was fully vaccinated and anywhere that required masks and now I am wearing it again as the Delta variant reaches our remote area.

I have had zero issues from wearing a mask. In fact I have not had a cold or the flu since I started masking and both 2020 and 2021 spring allergies were far less severe than usual. Today I am wearing a mask at home because of the smoke in the air outdoors, I will be wearing one when the smoke goes away, too. It is so easy to wear a mask. No one is making me do it.

Why is wearing a mask to keep smoke out of your airways acceptable, but wearing the same mask to keep a deadly virus out of those same airways being a sheep?

I assure you that I am no sheep. I am not willing to spread disease to prove that I can think for myself. That makes as much sense as hitting myself in the head with a hammer to prove that I'm not afraid to do it.

This is a new disease and, as is the nature of viruses they mutate rapidly when they have a large number of hosts to infect. Science is working hard to understand this virus and you are told when they learn something new. Of course the information changes as new discoveries are made and as the virus mutates. That is how science works, learning, testing, being flexible to understand changes, adapting to new conditions, working to find solutions.

Vast improvements have been made in treatment, the vaccine has slowed down the deaths, too.

But there is a huge petri dish of unvaccinated people who are providing homes for these virus strains to mutate and spread.

Viruses need hosts to propigate and survive. Those people who not only have refused to be vaccinated but also have refused to do even the simplest protective measures, like wearing a mask and avoiding crowded places, those people are providing the virus exactly what it needs to reproduce and mutate into more deadly forms.

I find it impossible to understand that people willingly admit this virus into their bodies and allow it to breed there unchecked. To me it is insanity.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

mattie cat said:


> I have not given up wearing a mask indoors and outdoors if around people. I don't need a Governor or anyone else to tell me if it is ok to go maskless. Common sense should dictate not politicians. I have lived like a hermit for about 18 months and can do it again.
> I am also fully vaccinated and would take the third dose in a heartbeat.


Yes, indeed, to all.


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MoCoop said:


> The story that masks don't make any difference and cause issues has been debunked so thoroughly and so many times I can't believe that you are still parroting this false theory.
> 
> I have COPD, I wore a mask around people indoors and out until a month after i was fully vaccinated and anywhere that required masks and now I am wearing it again as the Delta variant reaches our remote area.
> 
> ...


Thank you for posting these true facts. It is amazing what some people CHOOSE to believe and ignore the facts. I know some who will believe what some know nothing nut puts on the internet instead of seeing what is happening around them if only they would look.


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

headlemk said:


> .


 This is why, in India, many uneducated parents have failed to vaccinate their children against measles. They think it's a government conspiracy.

Edit: I see the original post did not come through. My reply is in response to the quotation from Ian Watson stating that if you are being bullied to do something (e.g., into getting a vaccination), then you can be sure it's not in your best interest. This is an overly broad application of a truism, which has the unintended consequence of creating a fallacy. Statements such as Ian Watson's are not a substitute for reasoning and the application of critical thinking skills.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Prism99 said:


> This is why, in India, many uneducated parents have failed to vaccinate their children against measles. They think it's a government conspiracy.
> 
> Edit: I see the original post did not come through. My reply is in response to the quotation from Ian Watson stating that if you are being bullied to do something (e.g., into getting a vaccination), then you can be sure it's not in your best interest. This is an overly broad application of a truism, which has the unintended consequence of creating a fallacy. Statements such as Ian Watson's are not a substitute for reasoning and the application of critical thinking skills.


I agree completely!


----------



## k2p3-knit-on (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm troubled by all of the ads, etc. promoting tourism and the industry is going all-out to promote travel. We stomp COVID down and tourists bring it back. If we all coordinate our efforts and contain it where it is more of us will outlive this pandemic. Our news channel reports vaccinated people can spread the newest one unknowingly and we may become sick but to a lesser degree than persons who refuse to be vaccinated. We ain't done yet. Let's ALL get our acts together! Writing this is like preaching to the choir. The persons who need to hear the message aren't in the choir!


----------



## Clarabz (Nov 26, 2018)

glendajean said:


> I live for 5 miles Mexican border and the next town west is La Jolla. I am fully vaccinated, but I have never given up my mask when shopping. Today is Friday so the supermarket was crowded, but I'll bet there weren't three people without masks. This part of the state started wearing masks when it was first advised and we haven't quit yet. Of course there are a few hold outs who refuse to wear masks or get vaccinated, but they are the minority.
> This is not a criticism of any one or any area that has not been hit by Covid or Delta and does not feel the need for masks. I'm just telling you how it is where I live.


Since you live near the border maybe you can answer my question - why aren't the immigrants coming in given the vaccine seeing so many of them already have it and are just 
being released into the US cities.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

If I lived in a rural area devoid of people, I would feel comfortable not wearing a mask. Since that is not the case for me, I am planning on wearing a mask, social distancing, avoiding crowds, washing my hands, and staying home as much as possible.


----------



## Murphie (Jan 6, 2019)

Hudson said:


> Been wearing masks for months and will continue to do so. Fully vaccinated in Feb/March.


Our governor, DeSantis, just banned schools from requiring masks. He's leaving it up to the parents to decide. 
We're the #1 state for infections, yet he refuses to put any restrictions or mask requirements. He remains a total idiot. 
I haven't been anywhere except the doctor. Hubby still works, but he wears a mask and stays 6' away from people and
asks them to back up if they get too close. Even outside.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

pattibe said:


> NO ONE has lied to you...Covid has killed over 600,000 people in this country alone. The vaccine is safe and affective. You stop with the lies and get your g-d vaccine.


I gave been vaccinated since February. There have been plenty of lies floating around, but if you want to give away your "g-d" freedoms inch by inch you go right ahead. I refuse to be a "yellow star wearing slave" to the gestapo state.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

gramjo said:


> ... We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


You are so right. We have realized the same thing, and in many ways, life is more enjoyable now.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

Clarabz said:


> Since you live near the border maybe you can answer my question - why aren't the immigrants coming in given the vaccine seeing so many of them already have it and are just
> being released into the US cities.


That would violate their "human rights" to force the vaccine on them. I sincerely wish there was a sarcasm font. I personally think they shouldn't be letting them cross our border.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

Lynjoywal said:


> Well, parts of S.E. Queensland are now going into lock down for 3 days minimum. This could be extended depending upon how quickly the contacts of infected people can be determined. We've been wearing masks for the last couple of weeks but this outbreak seems to come from a Medical student who was doing tutoring in many homes, etc. and, as students haven't been included in the mask wearing mandate, it could really spread quickly. Two schools have been put into complete lock down plus the University in the same area.


You are so fortunate to live in a country that understands how dangerous the coronavirus variants can be, and are not hesitant to take action.
If each country was able to do the same, we would be well along the way to stop the mutations.


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

spins2knit said:


> We can only hope!


Thank you for 
your reply!
Deb!


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> The story that masks don't make any difference and cause issues has been debunked so thoroughly and so many times I can't believe that you are still parroting this false theory.
> 
> I have COPD, I wore a mask around people indoors and out until a month after i was fully vaccinated and anywhere that required masks and now I am wearing it again as the Delta variant reaches our remote area.
> 
> ...


Well stated!


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

MoCoop said:


> The story that masks don't make any difference and cause issues has been debunked so thoroughly and so many times I can't believe that you are still parroting this false theory.
> 
> I have COPD, I wore a mask around people indoors and out until a month after i was fully vaccinated and anywhere that required masks and now I am wearing it again as the Delta variant reaches our remote area.
> 
> ...


On your last sentence, I believe
the non-maskers and non vaxers
have a death wish.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

jan m said:


> I just heard an expert at the University of Pennsylvania on NPR say that we are vulnerable to successive variants until 70-80% of the WORLD'S population is vaccinated. We seem to face a bleak future on this front.


Yes, I have also heard this from several sources, and that a high percentage of the currently vaccinated will survive the Delta variant. 
However, at some point in the future, as the virus continues to mutate, even the fully vaccinated may be at risk of death since the current vaccines may not target the spikes of the newer mutations. In addition, each mutation becomes stronger, and more resistant to the antibodies in our system.
Hopefully, the scientists/researchers will be able to concoct an effective booster vaccine in time.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

crochetknit Deb said:


> On your last sentence, I believe
> the non-maskers and non vaxers
> have a death wish.


I agree, but it may result in vastly reducing our species.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

headlemk said:


> I gave been vaccinated since February. There have been plenty of lies floating around, but if you want to give away your "g-d" freedoms inch by inch you go right ahead. I refuse to be a "yellow star wearing slave" to the gestapo state.


You are such a freedom fighter! Good for you! So don't wear your "yellow star." Or your mask, or your bra, or sensible shoes, or a sweater on a chilly day, or whatever else makes you feel like a slave. You are free! No need to get so angry about it.

And anyway, it's impossible to require someone to use a mask, though it's possible and entirely defensible for government and private entities to deny you the right to go into certain spaces without one. After all, they're not YOUR slaves, and they don't want to relinquish their "g-d" freedoms inch by inch to such people as yourself who have so little respect for public safety.

Don't want to wear a mask? Cool. Just stay away from places where masks are required.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

headlemk said:


> That would violate their "human rights" to force the vaccine on them. I sincerely wish there was a sarcasm font. I personally think they shouldn't be letting them cross our border.


How would you prevent people crossing the border? Do you think they all come through checkpoints with guards and inspections? The "big, beautiful" trump wall didn't prevent people from getting over it. People also tunnel under. So exactly what should "they" do to keep that from happening? Enquiring minds are waiting for your answer.


----------



## bootzie (May 28, 2013)

It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

bootzie said:


> It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
> I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.


Seriously? You have a short memory. It was trump who downplayed the pandemic, by his own admission. It was trump who caused confusion when he called it a Democrat hoax. He also mocked people who wore masks and refused to wear one himself. 
It was Biden who set goals for vaccination and made sure the vaccines were produced and distributed. He's also set the example by wearing a mask. NO confusion whatever!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Prism99 said:


> This is why, in India, many uneducated parents have failed to vaccinate their children against measles. They think it's a government conspiracy.
> 
> Edit: I see the original post did not come through. My reply is in response to the quotation from Ian Watson stating that if you are being bullied to do something (e.g., into getting a vaccination), then you can be sure it's not in your best interest. This is an overly broad application of a truism, which has the unintended consequence of creating a fallacy. Statements such as Ian Watson's are not a substitute for reasoning and the application of critical thinking skills.


It's like being forced to take a cab instead of driving drunk. It is in the best interest of everyone involved, proven an uncountable number of times.

But it is still necessary to force people with jail time, public service, forced education shaming, etc. to get them to give up their car keys when they have been drinking. Even that doesn't work - about 28 or 29 people, that averages to about every 50 minutes, someone is killed in a drunk driving incident in the USA alone.

In 2019 10,142 people lost their lives to drunk driving. These deaths were all preventable.

Many more are losing their lives to Covid. Most of these deaths are now preventable.

Watson's statement isn't always accurate.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


I am a retired nurse, I wore masks for 40 years and combined with other infection control measures never caught any of the potentially deadly diseases my patients had. I did get "colds" and flu that were prevalent in the community when I wasn't masked. Since my retirement Covid cropped up and for the first time in my life I have gone a year and a half with no respiratory infections of any sort. I attribute it to social distancing, mask wearing and continued good hand washing/sanitizing.

Masks don't offer 100% protection, vaccines don't offer 100% protection, nor do social distancing or hand washing. But combined they offer significantly more protection than doing nothing.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Here is a better Ian Watson quote: "I think it's safe to say that 'manliness' was a common theme in my upbringing. It was an assumed status, but - and here's the important bit - it was the Rudyard Kipling kind. The emphasis was on gentlemanly conduct, sportsmanship, fairness and stoicism."
— Ian Watson
I have not been able to find the quote previously mentioned in this topic
I cannot find a source for the quote attibuted to Ian Watson about being forced to do whatever. I have been looking for half an hour.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

KateLyn11 said:


> I am a retired nurse, I wore masks for 40 years and combined with other infection control measures never caught any of the potentially deadly diseases my patients had. I did get "colds" and flu that were prevalent in the community when I wasn't masked. Since my retirement Covid cropped up and for the first time in my life I have gone a year and a half with no respiratory infections of any sort. I attribute it to social distancing, mask wearing and continued good hand washing/sanitizing.
> 
> Masks don't offer 100% protection, vaccines don't offer 100% protection, nor do social distancing or hand washing. But combined they offer significantly more protection than doing nothing.


I really appreciate your input about masks. You obviously know what you're talking about, having been a nurse for 40 years!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

KateLyn11 said:


> I am a retired nurse, I wore masks for 40 years and combined with other infection control measures never caught any of the potentially deadly diseases my patients had. I did get "colds" and flu that were prevalent in the community when I wasn't masked. Since my retirement Covid cropped up and for the first time in my life I have gone a year and a half with no respiratory infections of any sort. I attribute it to social distancing, mask wearing and continued good hand washing/sanitizing.
> 
> Masks don't offer 100% protection, vaccines don't offer 100% protection, nor do social distancing or hand washing. But combined they offer significantly more protection than doing nothing.


Thank you, I wish people would listen to people like you who obviously know what they're talking about. It would save so many lives.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

bootzie said:


> It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
> I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.


Oh, right. He handled the pandemic just brilliantly.

Perhaps you've been drinking the bleach.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> I really appreciate your input about masks. You obviously know what you're talking about, having been a nurse for 40 years!


Actually was a military medic for the first roughly 10 years and an RN for roughly 30. But I am always curious about the supposed negative side effects of mask wearing. Health care workers (and many civilians) have worn masks to mitigate disease transmission for well over 100 years. Why have we not seen all these negative effects before now, especially in OR crews, isolation ward staff, those wearing masks to protect their immunocompromised patients? Those who precovid were wearing masks 8-12 or more hours a day. It makes no sense to me. These effects show up in "Karen" shopping for an hour but not in transplant surgeons in the OR for 16-20 hours…color me skeptical.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> How would you prevent people crossing the border? Do you think they all come through checkpoints with guards and inspections? The "big, beautiful" trump wall didn't prevent people from getting over it. People also tunnel under. So exactly what should "they" do to keep that from happening? Enquiring minds are waiting for your answer.


The sections of the wall built by Trump's design were not vulnerable to climbing over. Other parts of our border are vulnerable, some very vulnerable. Basic barbed wite fencing won't keep anyone out. The current admin doesn't seem to think it's a big deal that thousands of foreigners are coming into our country unvaccinated, but God forbid our citizens worry about our rights.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

lizzie91001 said:


> You are such a freedom fighter! Good for you! So don't wear your "yellow star." Or your mask, or your bra, or sensible shoes, or a sweater on a chilly day, or whatever else makes you feel like a slave. You are free! No need to get so angry about it.
> 
> And anyway, it's impossible to require someone to use a mask, though it's possible and entirely defensible for government and private entities to deny you the right to go into certain spaces without one. After all, they're not YOUR slaves, and they don't want to relinquish their "g-d" freedoms inch by inch to such people as yourself who have so little respect for public safety.
> 
> Don't want to wear a mask? Cool. Just stay away from places where masks are required.


I'm not angry at all. I am a law-abiding citizen who tries my best to love my neighbor as myself. It hurts my heart to read the hate and name-calling in some of these posts. And it is easy to see which side of center they call on. I am not afraid to be sick, nor am I afraid of much of anything. I know where my home is and it isn't here. There are a lot of commenters on this thread who really need Jesus. They might be amazed at how much calmer they would feel instead of getting their panties in a bunch over decisions others make for themselves that they have no control over. So much hate and anger. We need to love one another and be kind to each other.

I used "g-d" because my response was to pattibe using it in a comment to me. Personally, I don't appreciate cursing in any form.


----------



## suzy122 (Jun 3, 2012)

LEE1313 said:


> Well Cape Cod wants to THANK all the covidiots who were in P-town July 4th and caused the mass spread and upped the cases to over 900+..... ugh. Some were vax BUT not many wore masks.
> And it just keeps spreading.
> I am vax and wear my mask ALL the time; shopping, visiting even when I knit at the beach ( in my car).
> I pray something changes quickly. I surely dont want to be in lock down again.
> ...


Sadly a baby was one of those that died of covid in Fiji. Unfortunately covid may become like 'flu vaccinations yearly but I suppose that is better than nothing. Those people who don't take covid seriously and don't use precautions make me angry. There is a difference to taking risks that affect only you, and taking risks that affect others. Take care.


----------



## suzy122 (Jun 3, 2012)

headlemk said:


> The sections of the wall built by Trump's design were not vulnerable to climbing over. Other parts of our border are vulnerable, some very vulnerable. Basic barbed wite fencing won't keep anyone out. The current admin doesn't seem to think it's a big deal that thousands of foreigners are coming into our country unvaccinated, but God forbid our citizens worry about our rights.


According to a documentary Trump's was was easily passed. Validated by your Border Control people.


----------



## Lilyan (Dec 16, 2015)

KateLyn11 said:


> I am a retired nurse, I wore masks for 40 years and combined with other infection control measures never caught any of the potentially deadly diseases my patients had. I did get "colds" and flu that were prevalent in the community when I wasn't masked. Since my retirement Covid cropped up and for the first time in my life I have gone a year and a half with no respiratory infections of any sort. I attribute it to social distancing, mask wearing and continued good hand washing/sanitizing.
> 
> Masks don't offer 100% protection, vaccines don't offer 100% protection, nor do social distancing or hand washing. But combined they offer significantly more protection than doing nothing.


Thank you for being the voice of reason.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

suzy122 said:


> According to a documentary Trump's was was easily passed. Validated by your Border Control people.


A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

headlemk said:


> A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


In that case, it probably is improper for you to comment on the behaviors of New Zealanders. Turn about is still fair play.....


----------



## grannybell (Mar 12, 2013)

I will wear a mask when indoors, other than my own home.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

headlemk said:


> I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


Well, that's one way of shutting down a conversation, though I don't see why non-Americans have no grounds for opining on issues that are frequently discussed here on this very international public forum.


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

Lilyan said:


> I agree, but it may result in vastly reducing our species.


Maybe save the Earth?


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

lizzie91001 said:


> Oh, right. He handled the pandemic just brilliantly.
> 
> Perhaps you've been drinking the bleach.


trump would also
charge for the
bleach.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

headlemk said:


> .


What a load of absolute bull crap. Just because you don't know any of the dead doesn't mean it isn't real!


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

headlemk said:


> The sections of the wall built by Trump's design were not vulnerable to climbing over. Other parts of our border are vulnerable, some very vulnerable. Basic barbed wite fencing won't keep anyone out. The current admin doesn't seem to think it's a big deal that thousands of foreigners are coming into our country unvaccinated, but God forbid our citizens worry about our rights.


Wrong. Any wall is vulnerable to being climbed over.

"Viral Video Shows People Using Ladder to Climb US-Mexico Border Fence" https://www.businessinsider.com/video-people-easily-climb-us-mexico-border-fence-2019-12?amp


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

marykelly said:


> Why do they want us to use masks, when it has been repeatedly demonstrated that they don't make any difference and may contribute to other medical issues? I am not saying that the Covid threat isn't real, but I wonder what we haven't been told. Every time things seem to be dying down and getting under control, some new variant or other threat is discovered. How much of what has happened is disease, and how much is hype?


The light flu season in 2020 is proof that they DO WORK.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

headlemk said:


> I gave been vaccinated since February. There have been plenty of lies floating around, but if you want to give away your "g-d" freedoms inch by inch you go right ahead. I refuse to be a "yellow star wearing slave" to the gestapo state.


Hopefully you won't kill anyone innocent in your freedom.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

bootzie said:


> It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
> I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.


And another 600,000 deaths to go with it.
The only ones confused are the 45** cultists.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

KateLyn11 said:


> I am a retired nurse, I wore masks for 40 years and combined with other infection control measures never caught any of the potentially deadly diseases my patients had. I did get "colds" and flu that were prevalent in the community when I wasn't masked. Since my retirement Covid cropped up and for the first time in my life I have gone a year and a half with no respiratory infections of any sort. I attribute it to social distancing, mask wearing and continued good hand washing/sanitizing.
> 
> Masks don't offer 100% protection, vaccines don't offer 100% protection, nor do social distancing or hand washing. But combined they offer significantly more protection than doing nothing.


Thank you! And the violate no one's freedom!


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

headlemk said:


> A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


This is a world community and no one is prohibited from commenting. 
I don't know what the leak stands for, but you need to use your head to listen to more than your dear leader.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

headlemk said:


> I'm not angry at all. I am a law-abiding citizen who tries my best to love my neighbor as myself. It hurts my heart to read the hate and name-calling in some of these posts. And it is easy to see which side of center they call on. I am not afraid to be sick, nor am I afraid of much of anything. I know where my home is and it isn't here. There are a lot of commenters on this thread who really need Jesus. They might be amazed at how much calmer they would feel instead of getting their panties in a bunch over decisions others make for themselves that they have no control over. So much hate and anger. We need to love one another and be kind to each other.
> 
> I used "g-d" because my response was to pattibe using it in a comment to me. Personally, I don't appreciate cursing in any form.


If you really love others and care about their well-being you will wear a mask whenever you leave your home. If you do not wish to be vaccinated then don't. But don't go into public places without wearing a suitable mask.

Your decision to travel around without a mask or vaccination, if that is your decision, puts others' lives in danger. The Christian thing to do is to protect your neighbors and your loved ones by following basic disease prevention procedures. Masks work. Vaccinations work.

Pray on it with all humility.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

bootzie said:


> It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
> I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.


Um, How many people died under Mr. Trumps presidency? 
He dismantled our pandemic response team. He cast doubts on our leading infectious disease doctors. He got some people to drink or gargle with bleach and other disinfectants - disinfectant poisonings were up as much as 121% in April, when President Trump mused about injecting disinfectants. He disparaged masks and mask wearers. He held superspreader events during the peak of the pandemic and left trails of death behind him. He accused hospitals of stealing PPE. He spoke of the deadliness of the virus in private and pooh-poohed it in public. He did not take charge and lead this country through the pandemic because he was too busy with his upcoming campaign and unending tweets. He got the country divided into warring camps and turned the pandemic into a political issue rather than a national health disaster. If he had handled the pandemic properly he might have been reelected but he blew it, big time.
On his last full day as president the nation recorded the 400,000th death due to covid.
With leadership like that there is nothing but confusion.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

With freedom comes responsibility.
Just wear a mask.
When enough people world-wide are vaccinated to stop this virus and create real herd immunity you can take it off.
Get vaccinated and that day will come much sooner.


----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)




----------



## headlemk (Feb 16, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Wrong. Any wall is vulnerable to being climbed over.
> 
> "Viral Video Shows People Using Ladder to Climb US-Mexico Border Fence" https://www.businessinsider.com/video-people-easily-climb-us-mexico-border-fence-2019-12?amp


That portion of the "Mexico border fence" is not part of the Trump wall. :sm16: I've seen that video.


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Wear a mask when in indoor public places.


Definitely! Florida, where I live, is responsible for 20 percent of all new COVID cases, and they're mainly in people who have not been vaccinated. I checked a map, and every single county in Florida, with the exception of one in South Florida (and I don't know which one it is), is in really bad shape. So, out have come my masks once again.

Many businesses and doctors' and dentists' offices have never stopped requiring us to wear masks, so wearing a mask is pretty usual for me.

Unfortunately, Florida's governor is completely anti-mask and has issued an executive order, forbidding any government officials or school boards from requiring that employees and schoolchildren wear masks. Gov. DeSantis hopes to become the next US president, and he is evidently hoping that his anti-mask views will sweep him into office.

I don't feel that masks should be a political issue. Yes, we all have personal freedom, but one's personal freedom ends at the end of one's nose. Not wearing a mask endangers not only the person who won't wear a mask, but also others. Same with getting COVID vaccinations. So, I really hope that people will continue to get vaccinated and continue to wear a mask.

Hey, I'm not crazy about wearing a mask, either. My glasses constantly fog over. But it's for my own health and the health of others.

Hazel

Hazel


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Candycounter1 said:


> I am waiting & wondering what our governor is planning to do, but because of the Delta variant & it does not matter if you were vaccinated or not, and I am vaccinated, the masks may be coming back. And Because of all the people who are not vaccinated that D variant is attacking the unvaccinated & now we will be having to wear masks again:sm25:
> Damn it damn it:sm18:


I'm with you all the way, Candycounter1!

Hazel


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

headlemk said:


> That portion of the "Mexico border fence" is not part of the Trump wall. :sm16: I've seen that video.


Nevertheless, people have gotten over the wall. All it takes is a ladder, and there are many hundreds of miles of border that are easier to traverse. The point is that no one is "letting" these refugees into the country, and certainly not border patrols. The refugees are desperate, and will go to great lengths to get in. You just can't blame this problem on Democrats.


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

headlemk said:


> It hurts my heart to read the hate and name-calling in some of these posts. And it is easy to see which side of center they call on.


 I'll say. A good example of name-calling is the Dumbocrats example earlier in this thread. We all know who is the most prolific name-caller of this century…..


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

headlemk said:


> A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


 It amazes me that you think your responses are kind, considering you think the responses of others are not.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Prism99 said:


> I'll say. A good example of name-calling is the Dumbocrats example earlier in this thread. We all know who is the most prolific name-caller of this century…..


Some of us who they are intending to insult are actually Independents. I try to stay level headed in these discussions but some of the inflamatory language and obviously provocative statements do set me off.
People are dying. The USA could be almost totally vaccinated by now and we could be concentrating on getting the majority of the rest of the world vaccinated and stop this disease before it mutates any further. 
People are dying all over the world and we are lost in petty arguments by people who refuse to accept responsibility for their neighbors.
It is breaking my heart that people are insisting on their freedom without taking any of the responsibility that goes with it.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

headlemk said:


> A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


The New Zealanders have a stunningly good record of the way they treat the Maori, the indigenous peoples of New Zealand. It is really hard to immigrate to New Zealand as it is a prohibatively long swim, but I do think we could learn from their example.

People on this forum are from all over the English speaking world, it is worthwhile to listen to their opinions as they are looking in from the outside. You don't have to agree, but it is a very good idea to listen.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

I don’t really care about any individual’s political views, or their health care choices. What I care about and get so angry and frustrated about is the shear number of people who refuse to consider anyone or anything beyond their own wants and desires.

This is an issue that goes far beyond politics as it is wreaking havoc around the world.

I’m pretty sure I had Covid, I’m fully vaccinated so my chances of dying are pretty slim. So it really isn’t fear for my own safety that motivates me. But those who refuse to take public health measures seriously are putting those that I care about at serious risk, directly through the risk of direct disease transmission, but secondarily by infecting me, or another and us passing it along.

I’m talking about young children, those undergoing cancer treatment, those taking biological meds that suppress their immune systems, those who don’t have a choice on immunization. If you are willing to get sick yourself I don’t care. But when you put those I care about at risk I am less forgiving. Do your “rights” not come with the responsibility to care for the more physically vulnerable in your community, in your family? For those of you with religious leanings, I suggest you pray about this and ask where your responsibility to care for others begins and ends. Since no one knows how severely any individual will be hit, is making a stand against mask wearing really worth the health of your grandchildren?

I just don’t understand the mind set, never will, and never want to.


----------



## wordancer (May 4, 2011)

:sm04: :sm04: :sm04:


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

wordancer said:


> :sm04: :sm04: :sm04:


So right!


----------



## hollyhocks (Jun 26, 2016)

I never stopped wearing a mask in public places. There are just too many knowns about the variants, so I thought I would rather be safe than sorry.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Two choices.. read then take sides.

1.Wear a mask and get the shots...
2. Don't do the above and possibly kill your family and friends.

The results of killing are forever, personally I shudder at even the tiniest chance I would be responsible for someone's death so for me the choice is so simple. I am on the side of group 1. 

I guess if someone's freedom is more important than killing their family they awould pick 2

IT REALLY IS THIS SIMPLE


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Now I know why I like you so much. Well said.



For the Love of Shetland said:


> Two choices.. read then take sides.
> 
> 1.Wear a mask and get the shots...
> 2. Don't do the above and possibly kill your family and friends.
> ...


----------



## beejay (May 27, 2011)

I live in a residence for srs. Independent srs. that is not assisted living. During the pandemic we were under quarantine for over a yr. I couldn't wait to get it over and get out. Now that we are free to come and go as we please I find there are not so many places i care anything about going! When I do go anyplace I wear my mask and I am fully vaccinated.Ready for the booster if needed. I am 90 yrs. and working on91!


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

beejay said:


> I live in a residence for srs. Independent srs. that is not assisted living. During the pandemic we were under quarantine for over a yr. I couldn't wait to get it over and get out. Now that we are free to come and go as we please I find there are not so many places i care anything about going! When I do go anyplace I wear my mask and I am fully vaccinated.Ready for the booster if needed. I am 90 yrs. and working on91!


Congratulations to you for having adapted so positively to the changes of the past 18 months. You're playing it smart! You have all my best wishes.

Hope you were able to get some knitting done.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

It was a bit sarcastic but heavens to Betsy it really does come down to that choice.I just don't understand the option.

Love ya too XX Jeannine


MoCoop said:


> Now I know why I like you so much. Well said.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Well done Gal, we need many more of you around. XX Jeannine=beejay]I live in a residence for srs. Independent srs. that is not assisted living. During the pandemic we were under quarantine for over a yr. I couldn't wait to get it over and get out. Now that we are free to come and go as we please I find there are not so many places i care anything about going! When I do go anyplace I wear my mask and I am fully vaccinated.Ready for the booster if needed. I am 90 yrs. and working on91![/quote]


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

My idiot DH is waiting until they require masks again for going to the stores and restaurants. And yet he sits in front of the tv news every night and gripes about all the unvaccinated. He thinks we're safe because we're vaccinated. But I keep telling him that you can get COVID even if you're vaccinated-----but he is stupidly stubborn. Our town hasn't required masks for places of business yet. I'm hoping they do so my idiot DH will HAVE to wear a mask.


----------



## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

I think that here it is optional but we are advised to wear masks. Lucky me, I don't go anywhere anymore.


----------



## Judy M (Feb 17, 2011)

I think that here it is optional but we are advised to wear masks. Lucky me, I don't go anywhere anymore. I've been away from this house twice since my daughter died July 1st. Second time was just to drop off paperwork.


----------



## bevvyreay (Dec 5, 2012)

When I think of medical professionals having to wear masks 12 hours a day and me who wears one for 5-6, who have to hear people whining because they need to put one on for a short time to shop or socialise it makes my blood boil. 
I have had covid, in March 2020 when little was known and no vaccine. It was the most frightening time of my life and as a two time cancer survivor I don’t say that lightly. Fast forward to last month witnessing several of my close family and friends, many double jabbed contracting covid , yes the vaccine stopped them becoming seriously ill but a couple of antivaxers ended up in hospital, one with long covid. 
Wear your masks people you can still get and spread covid even vaccinated, wear your masks if you protect one person it’s worth it Don’t be that person who ends up with someone’s death on their conscience


----------



## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Prism99 said:


> I'll say. A good example of name-calling is the Dumbocrats example earlier in this thread. We all know who is the most prolific name-caller of this century…..


Honestly, _must_ you engage in name-calling? There are plenty of nasty names out there that I could apply to Republicans, but I don't. Must you call Democrats "Dumbocrats"? And as to "the most prolific name-caller of this century," I can only guess that you must mean Donald J. Trump, who does not let a day go by without hurling insults at anyone and everyone who dares to disturb him in even the slightest way. That poor man has nothing but grievances against almost everyone who comes near him--except for himself, of course.

I admit that I have started to call Republicans "Republicans In Name Only." The current Republican Party is not the Republican Party that I have known all my voting life. It is not the Republican Party to which my lifelong, conservative DH has belonged. I have voted for Republicans and Democrats all my voting life. I research candidates and vote for whoever is most qualified, without regard to political party. However, given what has happened to the Republican Party, I feel that I cannot vote for any Republican again--or at least not until the Republican In Name Only Party goes back to being the true Republican Party.

I'm really sorry that you have decided to engage in name-calling. I'm really sorry that this topic has evidently turned into nastiness. (I've only read the first page of comments, and I got email that there'd been a new comment on the topic, so that's how I ended up reading yours.) I'd hoped that we could all discuss masks and vaccinations in a sane manner. But evidently that has become impossible. And because I have zero desire to read name-calling and nastiness, I'm now unwatching this topic.

Hazel


----------



## flightpath (May 4, 2014)

Clarabz said:


> Since you live near the border maybe you can answer my question - why aren't the immigrants coming in given the vaccine seeing so many of them already have it and are just
> being released into the US cities.


They are getting the vaccine.


----------



## JanOS (Aug 30, 2013)

For the Love of Shetland said:


> Two choices.. read then take sides.
> 
> 1.Wear a mask and get the shots...
> 2. Don't do the above and possibly kill your family and friends.
> ...


Fully agree with you.


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Caroline Currer said:


> Here, in Ontario, Canada, our shops and supermarkets insist on masks. I'm all in favour!


They have no choice. The provincial government has mandated masks in all indoor public places.


----------



## Scarlet (Apr 5, 2011)

spins2knit said:


> The light flu season in 2020 is proof that they DO WORK.


You are right that they work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.

But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Scarlet said:


> You are right that they work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.
> 
> But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


I would like to see your medical/ scientific source for this.


----------



## Murphie (Jan 6, 2019)

headlemk said:


> I'm not angry at all. I am a law-abiding citizen who tries my best to love my neighbor as myself. It hurts my heart to read the hate and name-calling in some of these posts. And it is easy to see which side of center they call on. I am not afraid to be sick, nor am I afraid of much of anything. I know where my home is and it isn't here. There are a lot of commenters on this thread who really need Jesus. They might be amazed at how much calmer they would feel instead of getting their panties in a bunch over decisions others make for themselves that they have no control over. So much hate and anger. We need to love one another and be kind to each other.
> 
> I used "g-d" because my response was to pattibe using it in a comment to me. Personally, I don't appreciate cursing in any form.


Do you think refusing to wear a mask is loving one another and being kind to each other? Believing in Jesus is not going to save you from the virus, which has been proven by all the outbreaks in churches. Is it Christ-like to put other people's lives in jeopardy who may not believe in Jesus?
It's not hate to ask others to help protect your own life and it's not them making a decision just for themselves. They put other people at risk and care nothing about anyone else's life. It's the attitude of 'what I do is my business and the hell with everyone else' that makes me angry.


----------



## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Murphie said:


> Do you think refusing to wear a mask is loving one another and being kind to each other? Believing in Jesus is not going to save you from the virus, which has been proven by all the outbreaks in churches. Is it Christ-like to put other people's lives in jeopardy who may not believe in Jesus?
> It's not hate to ask others to help protect your own life and it's not them making a decision just for themselves. They put other people at risk and care nothing about anyone else's life. It's the attitude of 'what I do is my business and the hell with everyone else' that makes me angry.


----------



## Clarabz (Nov 26, 2018)

headlemk said:


> https://youtu.be/Yi6hJ1lhj0c


Great link. Everyone needs to ask those questions.


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Clarabz said:


> Great link. Everyone needs to ask those questions.


All well and good to ask the questions but why were they not asked to a scientist for qualified and knowledgeable answers. Terrible link?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

You are being wise and proactive. I have found that I don't miss some of the activities I participated in before February 2020. My life is less hectic and my blood pressure is nice and normal now.


gramjo said:


> As I understand it, with a coronavirus, the quicker you get MASS vaccinations the better your chance of NOT having a variant gain powerful momentum. Sadly, that is what Delta is doing. Due to health concerns husband and I have never stopped masking in public indoor places. And still avoid going anywhere whenever possible. The good news is that we have many fully vaccinated friends and family and can enjoy time with them in our home, something that was unthinkable in 2020. We have found that lots of the things we used to do are no longer important to us, we appreciate the simpler gatherings these days. Stay safe fellow knitters!


----------



## Clarabz (Nov 26, 2018)

Granny41 said:


> All well and good to ask the questions but why were they not asked to a scientist for qualified and knowledgeable answers. Terrible link?


by scientists like Fraudci?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Maybe we are seeing more masks in public proportionately because the people wise enough to mask up around others are surviving and living their lives and the anti maskers are the ones killing themselves off.


bevvyreay said:


> The reality is that you can still contract covid even if you are double jabbed but you are much less likely to become seriously ill or die. - - -


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Clarabz said:


> by scientists like Fraudci?


Why do 'you people' have to try to diminish the skilled and experienced scientists by calling them stupid and childish names? Your former president taught you well.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

When a person uses a stupid insult such as ridiculing a someone's name I consider their opinion to be less than worthless and I consider them to be stupid trolls who have nothing worth saying but say it anyway. Clarabelle, you come across like one of those lame trolls.

Meanwhile Dr. Anthony Fauci is a longstanding and highly regarded (by people with brains) epidemiologist who has the integrity to update his advice and opinions as the data changes. Only an idiot would take a firm stand on an issue that continues to evolve. A true scientist stays up to date with research and modifies his/her advice in keeping with the evolution of a situation. But stupid trolls with their heads where the light doesn't reach seem unable to process such rational thought.


Clarabz said:


> by scientists like Fraudci?


----------



## OResmerelda (Jan 16, 2015)

Scarlet said:


> You are right that they [masks] work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.
> But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


I'm not a medical professional, however, from everything I've read, you are right. The Covid virus itself is small enough to pass through regular fabrics BUT the active virus cannot fly through the air on its own. Instead it travels in the moist exhalations of the host and it is those aerosols and droplets that are stopped by the mask. A perfect, 100% solution?: No. The best thing we've got to give some degree of protection the masses?: Yes.

As to your second point - this may be true for some but everyone I've talked to says their mask is a physical reminder to social distance and not to touch their faces while out and about.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> When a person uses a stupid insult such as ridiculing a someone's name I consider their opinion to be less than worthless and I consider them to be stupid trolls who have nothing worth saying but say it anyway. Clarabelle, you come across like one of those lame trolls.
> 
> Meanwhile Dr. Anthony Fauci is a longstanding and highly regarded (by people with brains) epidemiologist who has the integrity to update his advice and opinions as the data changes. Only an idiot would take a firm stand on an issue that continues to evolve. A true scientist stays up to date with research and modifies his/her advice in keeping with the evolution of a situation. But stupid trolls with their heads where the light doesn't reach seem unable to process such rational thought.


Hear! Hear!


----------



## Murphie (Jan 6, 2019)

My hubby is in people's homes all day. He keeps his distance and wears a mask. If they refuse to put one on, he says
"What doesn't kill you....... wait, it will mutate and try again"


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

chooksnpinkroses said:


> I feel as though we are all 'guinea pigs' as the vaccines were not well tested to my knowledge. I think some vaccines are better than others. Astra Zeneca has been shown to be a problem with causes a blood clotting disorder in some people and a few have died. The risk of this happening gets readjusted all the time. First it was 1 in 400,000, now it's higher, 1 in 180,000 I believe. Even so I have decided to get it anyway and pray I/we don't have problems...


"So far in Australia, out of 2.1 million doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine, 24 cases of TTS (blood clots) have been reported. So the risk of TTS is approximately one in 88,000.

These figures are similar to those reported in the UK, Europe, the Middle East and Canada."

Try to focus on the statistics that show that the more people who are vaccinated, the less likely one is to wind up in the hospital. In the US, some hospitals are reporting that 90 up to 95 % of patients being admitted are unvaccinated, and of the others who are vaccinated and hospitalized, zero deaths.

Scientists have said all along that the way to beat this is vaccines. The longer the virus is around in large numbers, and the more it mutates, the less effective any current vaccine may become. You don't stop treatment for any disease when it is looking a little better, but continue until it is ALL gone.

Children may be less likely to get this, but why would anyone want to risk their child on 'less likely'? A mask is a piece of cloth, not a death sentence. A shot may make you uncomfortable for a day, but that has to be better than the alternative 'risk'.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Susie2016 said:


> My idiot DH is waiting until they require masks again for going to the stores and restaurants. And yet he sits in front of the tv news every night and gripes about all the unvaccinated. He thinks we're safe because we're vaccinated. But I keep telling him that you can get COVID even if you're vaccinated-----but he is stupidly stubborn. Our town hasn't required masks for places of business yet. I'm hoping they do so my idiot DH will HAVE to wear a mask.


I don't know which is more difficult to live with; a husband like yours or one like mine, who pays lip service but fails to actually do what needs to be done.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> When a person uses a stupid insult such as ridiculing a someone's name I consider their opinion to be less than worthless and I consider them to be stupid trolls who have nothing worth saying but say it anyway. Clarabelle, you come across like one of those lame trolls.
> 
> Meanwhile Dr. Anthony Fauci is a longstanding and highly regarded (by people with brains) epidemiologist who has the integrity to update his advice and opinions as the data changes. Only an idiot would take a firm stand on an issue that continues to evolve. A true scientist stays up to date with research and modifies his/her advice in keeping with the evolution of a situation. But stupid trolls with their heads where the light doesn't reach seem unable to process such rational thought.


I could not possibly have said it better than you have.


----------



## For the Love of Shetland (Jan 26, 2019)

Marilyn, you are so right.

When I see posts like the one you responded to I find myself feeling sympathic to the writer. Their life must be so small,mundane and worthless that they need to insult to feel valuable and of course if they can make a name sound silly they think they have done something extra special.Sadly it only impresses the folks like themselves so their world stays small and uneducated and instead of looking clever to the larger majority the reality is they are being laughed at and considered idiots.


MarilynKnits said:


> When a person uses a stupid insult such as ridiculing a someone's name I consider their opinion to be less than worthless and I consider them to be stupid trolls who have nothing worth saying but say it anyway. Clarabelle, you come across like one of those lame trolls.
> 
> Meanwhile Dr. Anthony Fauci is a longstanding and highly regarded (by people with brains) epidemiologist who has the integrity to update his advice and opinions as the data changes. Only an idiot would take a firm stand on an issue that continues to evolve. A true scientist stays up to date with research and modifies his/her advice in keeping with the evolution of a situation. But stupid trolls with their heads where the light doesn't reach seem unable to process such rational thought.


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Hazel, I am sorry that you misunderstood my post. It is probably because you read only the first page of the thread and missed the context. My reference was to this post by bootzie earlier in the thread.
--------------------------
bootzie Joined: May 28, 2013 Posts: 809

It's the Dumbocrats in charge who cannot get their act together.
I keep thinking how Trump would be handling this. I'll bet there there would be 99% less confusion.
--------------------------
My post was intended to counter headlemk's perception that name-calling is primarily the perview of Democrats (and/or people who do not share her opinion).

Donald Trump was indeed the person who legitimized name-calling.

Since you unsubscribed from the thread, I will try to PM you to clear up this misunderstanding. I enjoy your posts enormously, and would be sad to have you think so little of me.



Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Honestly, _must_ you engage in name-calling? There are plenty of nasty names out there that I could apply to Republicans, but I don't. Must you call Democrats "Dumbocrats"? And as to "the most prolific name-caller of this century," I can only guess that you must mean Donald J. Trump, who does not let a day go by without hurling insults at anyone and everyone who dares to disturb him in even the slightest way. That poor man has nothing but grievances against almost everyone who comes near him--except for himself, of course.
> 
> I admit that I have started to call Republicans "Republicans In Name Only." The current Republican Party is not the Republican Party that I have known all my voting life. It is not the Republican Party to which my lifelong, conservative DH has belonged. I have voted for Republicans and Democrats all my voting life. I research candidates and vote for whoever is most qualified, without regard to political party. However, given what has happened to the Republican Party, I feel that I cannot vote for any Republican again--or at least not until the Republican In Name Only Party goes back to being the true Republican Party.
> 
> ...


----------



## Scarlet (Apr 5, 2011)

spins2knit said:


> I would like to see your medical/ scientific source for this.


I wish I had saved the reports on them! I'd send them to you in a minute! Actually I'm surprised you didn't see any of those reports, but then anything that is contrary to the way those in charge want us to think, then it is removed. It has been awhile since I have seen reports on the effectiveness of masks. But when it was in the news - scientific tests have been done. In fact early on didn't Fauci report that covid particles were so tiny that they went right thru the fabric of masks? He changed that report as he has changed others.

They told the numerical size of the 'particles' of the different virusus/bacteria/germs (however you want to refer to them.) the covid-19 wasn't anywhere near the size of the others - just miniscule!


----------



## Prism99 (Apr 14, 2015)

Scarlet said:


> I wish I had saved the reports on them! I'd send them to you in a minute! Actually I'm surprised you didn't see any of those reports, but then anything that is contrary to the way those in charge want us to think, then it is removed. It has been awhile since I have seen reports on the effectiveness of masks. But when it was in the news - scientific tests have been done. In fact early on didn't Fauci report that covid particles were so tiny that they went right thru the fabric of masks? He changed that report as he has changed others.
> 
> They told the numerical size of the 'particles' of the different virusus/bacteria/germs (however you want to refer to them.) the covid-19 wasn't anywhere near the size of the others - just miniscule!


This is based on a misunderstanding of how the virus spreads. It's true that the particle size of the virus itself is extremely small -- small enough to get through a mask. However, this fails to take into account the fact that the virus cannot transport itself through the air. The virus requires moisture to survive, and is transmitted through air by means of droplets and aerosols (which are basically just extremely small droplets). Masks stop droplets. Masks also stop almost all of the aerosols of the size considered to be the most important for transmitting the SARS virus.

Very little research had been done on masks at the beginning of the pandemic. Since then, an enormous amount of research has been done, most of it too technical to be of much use to regular people. The conclusion from all this more recent research is that masks do significantly slow down the spread of the virus. For more information, see https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm

Note how it has been determined, since the pandemic started, that the virus is not easily spread on hard surfaces. Why? Because the virus needs moisture to survive. Most hard surfaces dry so fast the virus cannot survive. The virus does survive, however, in respiratory droplets. Masks stop droplets.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Scarlet said:


> You are right that they work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.
> 
> But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


The weave in masks used by the public is too large to stop all individual virus particles but they stop the droplets that contain a "zillion" virus particles. and they stop those particles that land on the weave. As I've said before no strategy is 100% effective, but if I use all strategies available to me, I decrease my risk significantly. In my opinion that is better than throwing up my hands and saying, "nothing works".


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

Sorry this is intended for RookieRetiee, quote reply didn’t work.

Thanks for posting this, I am going to print it and hand it out to those who confront others for wearing a mask.


----------



## MrsB (Jun 3, 2011)

I'll wear a mask until I feel there's no further need.


----------



## jmcret05 (Oct 24, 2011)

Scarlet said:


> You are right that they work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.
> 
> But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


I don't believe mask wearing causes MOST people to be more reckless. Flu season last year was almost non-existent. Hand-washing, social distancing and mask wearing was and is the best we had and now we have vaccines. If we are doing all we can, it doesn't matter what tests proved. We know what NOT taking those measures proves. 610,000 in the US alone. The vaccines are constantly being monitored and statistics tell us that they are the most effective we have at this point. That's all that matters. When we add a mask and continue to social distance and be careful, we are doing our part.

Watch any video of a person who hesitated and then regretted that hesitation when facing severe illness, or the death of a loved one. The dumbest thing I've heard is that the FDA hasn't fully approved the vaccines yet.

If you were approaching a train crossing and the city had not yet erected the gates but had a 'railroad crossing' sign there to warn of the danger, would you heed the warning or guess that it wasn't all that serious and you could still risk the crossing? Add that you have loved ones in the car with you.


----------



## Naughty Knitter (Apr 1, 2011)

Clarabz said:


> by scientists like Fraudci?


You are not clever, calling names is childish, immature, rude and ignorant.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Scarlet said:


> You are right that they work for flu and colds too. But the covid-19 "particles" are so much tiny-ier that they go right thru the fabric. Tests have been done to prove that, but they were done earlier in the pandemic and You probably would lose your job if you published those results today.
> 
> But the worst part is that people may think the mask is such good protection and then take risks that they would not take if they weren't wearing it.


That is also very old foolishness. The coronavirus and the flu virus are both transported by water droplets, which a mask does stop. Both are viruses, not bacteria, which are considerably larger.
If masks didn't work medical workers wouldn't wear them for 10 or 12 hours a day. They change them often when there are enough available. A clean mask is vital to them.
The reason for social distancing is to make it harder for smaller particles to go through masks, if the air is saturated with coronavirus, then you are in trouble, which is why crowds are superspreader events and why you should keep your distance.
A mask stops a high percentage of all particles. If everyone is wearing one the virus has almost no chance to find new hosts to breed in.
No one of any intelligence says to wear a mask and jump in a crowd. The guidelines are to wear a mask, don't touch your face, clean your hands often, and keep your distance. Actually, the guidelines now are to get vaccinated, wear a mask, don't touch your face, clean your hands often, and keep your distance. You need to follow all of the directions, not pick and chose. If you refuse to be vaccinated then all of the other procedures become even more important to follow.
The new variants breeding in unvaccinated, unmasked people are becoming more contagious and more dangerous as they mutate.
Don't believe the "masks don't work" line. They are not armor, they are a vital part of a series of instructions carefully formulated to keep you as healthy as possible.
The mask must be clean, of suitible materials and properly fitted and worn if you must be in a group. If you are maintaining distance outside, then the simpler masks help protect you.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

My baby sister is a microbiologist, our best friends are a retired physician and his wife. They wear masks outside their homes and so do all of their friends. 
If you found those reports once you can find them again. I bet they have been debunked.
I don't think how anyone decides I should think. That is an insult.
Once again, if masks don't work why do medical people, the ones who have to deal with covid on a daily basis, wear them until their faces are bruised and then the next day put them on again?
They wear them because they do not wish to become infected by the coronavirus and the masks protect them.



Scarlet said:


> I wish I had saved the reports on them! I'd send them to you in a minute! Actually I'm surprised you didn't see any of those reports, but then anything that is contrary to the way those in charge want us to think, then it is removed. It has been awhile since I have seen reports on the effectiveness of masks. But when it was in the news - scientific tests have been done. In fact early on didn't Fauci report that covid particles were so tiny that they went right thru the fabric of masks? He changed that report as he has changed others.
> 
> They told the numerical size of the 'particles' of the different virusus/bacteria/germs (however you want to refer to them.) the covid-19 wasn't anywhere near the size of the others - just miniscule!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

very well written, thank you.


Prism99 said:


> This is based on a misunderstanding of how the virus spreads. It's true that the particle size of the virus itself is extremely small -- small enough to get through a mask. However, this fails to take into account the fact that the virus cannot transport itself through the air. The virus requires moisture to survive, and is transmitted through air by means of droplets and aerosols (which are basically just extremely small droplets). Masks stop droplets. Masks also stop almost all of the aerosols of the size considered to be the most important for transmitting the SARS virus.
> 
> Very little research had been done on masks at the beginning of the pandemic. Since then, an enormous amount of research has been done, most of it too technical to be of much use to regular people. The conclusion from all this more recent research is that masks do significantly slow down the spread of the virus. For more information, see https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7007e1.htm
> 
> Note how it has been determined, since the pandemic started, that the virus is not easily spread on hard surfaces. Why? Because the virus needs moisture to survive. Most hard surfaces dry so fast the virus cannot survive. The virus does survive, however, in respiratory droplets. Masks stop droplets.


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Clarabz said:


> by scientists like Fraudci?


Good one!!! He is a fraud. I've seen him go back and forth on issues. Then I've seen him contradict himself over and over. And he has also been caught in lies. I don't believe one word he says. When there is an issue, I decide what to do for myself rather than listen to him. I listen to the news----I look at what's going on in the country and then decide what to do.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I selected a mask pattern from those offered on the Internet, one that DD and I agreed would offer the most comfort and best coverage. I used an extra top sheet I had in storage to make our masks. Good bed sheets are made of sturdy tightly woven fabric. I used a round unbleached basket coffee filter ironed flat as an interlining. My SIL goes through perhaps 3 masks a day the days he has to work at his office, so I made enough for him to have a work week supply. The elastic goes through side channels and around the back of the head so there is no ear chafing with prolonged wear. Our masks are over a year old and are holding up well. They wash well and we air dry them to prolong the life of the elastic. I have a few over the ear masks that were provided by our hospital and our insurance company that are also washable and comfortable for the few hours I may wear them when I am in the supermarket or running errands. 

None of us had our usual run of winter colds last year. I expect I will be wearing a mask when out shopping forever. I resent the people who won't vaccinate or won't wear masks. I no longer spend much time at our senior center. BC (Before Covid) I knit with a group there for a couple of hours every Tuesday, took a couple of exercise classes twice a week, and took tai chi once a week. I still go to tai chi because the class is small, the room is large, and we have to distance from one another to do the moves. One of the women in the knitting group is an acknowledged non vaxxer, so the rest of us aren't going there any more. She is also in one of the exercise classes, which I am also skipping. People sit too close together in the chair exercise classes. I have been walking 2 or 3 miles a day for my workout.

Fortunately for us DH and I are not big restaurant goers. The few places we like do take out, and we eat in the comfort of our home with the soft music we prefer. And I love to cook and experiment with new recipes. We have been careful to portion control so we haven't gained any weight during the pandemic.

I am sad for so many of my friends who live alone now. A couple of the women have been struggling with depression. ZOOM get togethers helped, seeing friendly faces and chatting as we knit togetherish. We were looking forward to more personal interaction, but now the delta variant and the selfish foolish people who won't get vaccinated or wear masks have put the kibosh on that.

I guess all we can do is hang in there and do our part until either the fools kill themselves off or the virus stabilizes as happened a hundred years ago. I think it took about two years for that flu epidemic to ease off enough for people to get their lives back. 

I looked up some numbers. Apparently in the US about 675,000 out of a population of about 106 million died in the flu epidemic. So far about 610,000 out of a US population of about 330 million have died from this pandemic. That is about a third the rate of a hundred years ago. There was no vaccine then. It doesn't take a genius to attribute the lower percentage of deaths now at least in part to vaccination.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Sigh, some things are just better left unsaid.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Susie2016 said:


> Good one!!! He is a fraud. I've seen him go back and forth on issues. Then I've seen him contradict himself over and over. And he has also been caught in lies. I don't believe one word he says. When there is an issue, I decide what to do for myself rather than listen to him. I listen to the news----I look at what's going on in the country and then decide what to do.


Seriously? You expect any physician to know all the ins and outs of a new virus immediately, if not sooner? They should know in advance (magically) every twist and turn the virus will take? Dr. Fauci takes the time to immediately pass along updates so we can take the necessary steps for our survivals and you call that lying? Words fail me.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

SAMkewel said:


> Seriously? You expect any physician to know all the ins and outs of a new virus immediately, if not sooner? They should know in advance (magically) every twist and turn the virus will take? Dr. Fauci takes the time to immediately pass along updates so we can take the necessary steps for our survivals and you call that lying? Words fail me.


Her comment is typical of the politically motivated ignorance we see among trump supporters. The orange gorilla discredited Fauci, so like sheep his followers just repeat his disparagement. It's not that Susie is stupid, she's just chosen to sail in a leaky boat, wherever it takes her.


----------



## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Scarlet said:


> I wish I had saved the reports on them! I'd send them to you in a minute! Actually I'm surprised you didn't see any of those reports, but then anything that is contrary to the way those in charge want us to think, then it is removed. It has been awhile since I have seen reports on the effectiveness of masks. But when it was in the news - scientific tests have been done. In fact early on didn't Fauci report that covid particles were so tiny that they went right thru the fabric of masks? He changed that report as he has changed others.
> 
> They told the numerical size of the 'particles' of the different virusus/bacteria/germs (however you want to refer to them.) the covid-19 wasn't anywhere near the size of the others - just miniscule!


Well, I will wait until I see the reports.

I do understand that information has been deleted from public view. The former, 45**, was one of those who did much of the deleting. I do know that the particles themselves need to be projected and that masks block the moisture that projects them.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Candycounter1 said:


> I am waiting & wondering what our governor is planning to do, but because of the Delta variant & it does not matter if you were vaccinated or not, and I am vaccinated, the masks may be coming back. And Because of all the people who are not vaccinated that D variant is attacking the unvaccinated & now we will be having to wear masks again:sm25:
> Damn it damn it:sm18:


Oh, it matters. If you are not vaccinated and contract the Delta Variant, you can die or be very sick and hospitalized. If you are vaccinated you can get it, it is true, however, most people tested are either asymptomatic or have very mild cases and recover quickly.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

Clarabz said:


> by scientists like Fraudci?


Gosh, did you come up with that yourself? You must think you're very clever.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Woodsywife said:


> I've continued to wear my mask all along even though I'm vaccinated. To many people not vaccinated. And they can say they were when they aren't when asked. Children not vaccinated. Why would the "professionals" ever think children were immune, aren't they the ones who carry the colds and viruses to school???????? All these illegals crossing the border, most are positive, most refuse vaccine when they get here, yet we allow them to stay. We will never get it under contol until that stops.


Where on earth did you get that information? Please provide links to facts. First of all, no one has ever said children were immune. I do not pretend to be a medical professional, but I'd guess it has more to do with effective doses for children. It will probably have to do with weight of the child to determine the correct dosage for their body. Back in March, the head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency told lawmakers that the positivity rates for people coming across the border at the time was less than 6%. For some comparison, the average positivity rate in Texas was above 7% at that time.

On testing migrants for COVID-19 and who is doing it

Immigration authorities said they are working with state and local authorities and non-governmental groups to make sure that all migrants are tested "at some point during their immigration journey."

Federal health officials say that the many unaccompanied minors who have arrived are tested every three days - those who test positive are isolated from the rest.

Customs and Border Protection personnel do initial checks for symptoms, and they consult with onsite medical staff. People who are presumed to be sick are sent to local health systems for testing, diagnosis and treatment, according to immigration officials.

Cities, counties and nonprofits handle the vast majority of the testing and any subsequent isolation. (https://www.capradio.org/articles/2021/04/15/fact-checking-claims-about-covid-19-testing-for-migrants-at-the-southern-border/)


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> I understand this is a hot topic, but the name-calling and politicizing has got to stop. Just listen to how you sound. All that anger and hate. You, peeps, are better than that. Be kind to one another. You are doing more physical and mental harm to yourselves by hating on other people. Be kind to one another ... in word and deed.


The harsh words come from utter frustration. It's an anonymous forum and calling someone out on stupid or selfish behavior is not nearly as devastating as being responsible for the spreading and acceleration of this deadly virus.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> I gave been vaccinated since February. There have been plenty of lies floating around, but if you want to give away your "g-d" freedoms inch by inch you go right ahead. I refuse to be a "yellow star wearing slave" to the gestapo state.


Did you not just lecture everyone to stop the name-calling and be kind etc. and now you swear at us acting all self-righteous? How dare you compare wearing a mask and getting a vaccination to the Jewish people who did where the yellow star of David, marked for certain death! It would serve you well to live in a gestapo state so you would know the difference between preserving your own health as well as others and being persecuted and murdered because of your faith.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> The sections of the wall built by Trump's design were not vulnerable to climbing over. Other parts of our border are vulnerable, some very vulnerable. Basic barbed wite fencing won't keep anyone out. The current admin doesn't seem to think it's a big deal that thousands of foreigners are coming into our country unvaccinated, but God forbid our citizens worry about our rights.


SAN DIEGO - Smuggling gangs in Mexico have repeatedly sawed through new sections of President Trump's border wall in recent months by using commercially available power tools, opening gaps large enough for people and drug loads to pass through, according to U.S. agents and officials with knowledge of the damage.

The breaches have been made using a popular cordless household tool known as a reciprocating saw that retails at hardware stores for as little as $100. When fitted with specialized blades, the saws can slice through one of the barrier's steel-and-concrete bollards in minutes, according to the agents, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the barrier-defeating techniques.

After cutting through the base of a single bollard, smugglers can push the steel out of the way, creating an adult-size gap. Because the bollards are so tall - and are attached only to a panel at the top - their length makes them easier to push aside once they have been cut and are left dangling, according to engineers consulted by The Washington Post.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> I'm not angry at all. I am a law-abiding citizen who tries my best to love my neighbor as myself. It hurts my heart to read the hate and name-calling in some of these posts. And it is easy to see which side of center they call on. I am not afraid to be sick, nor am I afraid of much of anything. I know where my home is and it isn't here. There are a lot of commenters on this thread who really need Jesus. They might be amazed at how much calmer they would feel instead of getting their panties in a bunch over decisions others make for themselves that they have no control over. So much hate and anger. We need to love one another and be kind to each other.
> 
> I used "g-d" because my response was to pattibe using it in a comment to me. Personally, I don't appreciate cursing in any form.


And now you are proselytizing.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> A left leaning anti-trump documentary, no doubt. I don't think New Zelanders have grounds to comment on U.S. border issues, tyvm.


Why not? They seem to be better informed on our domestic issues than you are.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

headlemk said:


> https://youtu.be/Yi6hJ1lhj0c


He talked too fast for me to write down his points to refute. Many of them referred to personal rights. I have to ask, what about my right to go to a grocery store and risk my life by bumping into the likes of you? I have a right to live and that should supersede your right to go maskless. He also spoke of cashiers handing out pens, touching your grocery items while scanning etc. Every place I've been that required signatures had a cleaned cup of pens and a used cup of pens. I always bring my own pen anyway, even when I voted against your hero in the last election. Research has shown us that the virus does not linger on surfaces as originally thought and is transmitted through tiny particles in the air, which is why masks continue to be helpful in preventing this disease and other airborne maladies. I avoid places I don't trust, such as airplanes. I've only eaten out at a restaurant twice since Covid hit. One of those was admittedly risky; the other was in a private dining room for just our group. All of us were vaccinated and we did not remove our masks until the first course was served by the only waiter assigned to us who was masked. The private dining room was the only one and it was on a lower floor closed off from the public. It was in Chicago and I saw a lot more people masking there than in my city.

I don't remember what else your video questioned. It was far too idiotic for me to replay it. I hope I've answered a few of your questions.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Honestly, _must_ you engage in name-calling? There are plenty of nasty names out there that I could apply to Republicans, but I don't. Must you call Democrats "Dumbocrats"? And as to "the most prolific name-caller of this century," I can only guess that you must mean Donald J. Trump, who does not let a day go by without hurling insults at anyone and everyone who dares to disturb him in even the slightest way. That poor man has nothing but grievances against almost everyone who comes near him--except for himself, of course.
> 
> I admit that I have started to call Republicans "Republicans In Name Only." The current Republican Party is not the Republican Party that I have known all my voting life. It is not the Republican Party to which my lifelong, conservative DH has belonged. I have voted for Republicans and Democrats all my voting life. I research candidates and vote for whoever is most qualified, without regard to political party. However, given what has happened to the Republican Party, I feel that I cannot vote for any Republican again--or at least not until the Republican In Name Only Party goes back to being the true Republican Party.
> 
> ...


Prism 99 was pointing out that someone in an earlier thread said "dumbocrats". The person she was replying too said it is just the lefties who are name-calling and Prism was pointing out the untruth of her statement. I thought the same thing until I recalled other posts of Prism's and know she stands on my side of the fence. I'm in too many pages to go back and find the original person who used that term on this thread, but Prism was calling it out as a non-lefty enjoying the childish game of name-calling.


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Her comment is typical of the politically motivated ignorance we see among trump supporters. The orange gorilla discredited Fauci, so like sheep his followers just repeat his disparagement. It's not that Susie is stupid, she's just chosen to sail in a leaky boat, wherever it takes her.


She, who claims to have been a nurse, does not believe the evolving science of COVID19. Her personal assessment is far more accurate. Snort!


----------



## sandj (May 16, 2012)

Wear a mask vaccine or not indoors. Most people aren’t wearing them because they are going by the rule that if they did get the vaccine they don’t have to wear one. ☺


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

sandj said:


> Wear a mask vaccine or not indoors. Most people aren't wearing them because they are going by the rule that if they did get the vaccine they don't have to wear one. ☺


That was somewhat true until the Delta variant changed everything.


----------



## Murphie (Jan 6, 2019)

We have had several people stop by our house as we were sitting on the carport.
One wanted a cigarette so he took off his mask. I asked him to put it back on then went in the house.
I came out a few minutes later and he was still maskless. I told him to leave. He was not welcome if he can't abide by my rules.
He was shocked, but I told him again. "Get out"

Yesterday someone else came over again maskless. My hubby immediately came in the house to get a mask and backed away from him, but the guy said,
"It's okay, I'm vaccinated." He decided to leave so I didn't have to throw someone else off my property. 

My now ex-friend came over maskless after I told her I was immune compromised and wasn't going anywhere, including her house.
She was going to sit in the chair next to me. I told her to back off. She asked if I was serious. I said, "damn right I'm serious.." She left and I haven't heard from her since...six months ago. Don't need friends like that.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I find it difficult to understand why people want to open their bodies to a virulent disease that invades all of their tissues and turns their body into a huge incubator for replicating more and more virus. Even if you have few or minor symptoms you still are a disease vector nurturing the virus in your body, enabling it to multiply and mutate, and giving the virus every opportunity to spread to new hosts and multiply further.
If you are not vaccinated, do not wear a mask, hang out in large groups of unprotected people and travel freely into virus hotspots, you are inviting this invader into your body.
The purpose of a virus is to survive long enough to make more virus. Lots more virus. Whether the host lives or dies is not important to the virus. It doesn't think, at least not in any way that we can comprehend, it just reproduces.
I agree that you have the freedom to become a virus factory if that is your wish.
I do not agree that you have the right to spew virus over me and my loved ones with your every breath.
If you don't want to stop this virus and refuse vaccination, masks and other precautions, just stay home. You are a public health menace.

edit: I am not referring to people who medically can not take the vaccine. Bless you, we all need to be vaccinated and wear PPE to keep people like you safe.


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Her comment is typical of the politically motivated ignorance we see among trump supporters. The orange gorilla discredited Fauci, so like sheep his followers just repeat his disparagement. It's not that Susie is stupid, she's just chosen to sail in a leaky boat, wherever it takes her.


If Susie was stupid I'd have more tolerance. The fact that she isn't and lets Trump do her thinking for her is beyond my ability to comprehend.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

SAMkewel said:


> If Susie was stupid I'd have more tolerance. The fact that she isn't and lets Trump do her thinking for her is beyond my ability to comprehend.


Mine, too. It seems so contradictory to me.


----------



## KateLyn11 (Jul 19, 2014)

The very fact that Dr Fauci “contradicts” himself and his advice changes is the very reason I listen to him. He isn’t spouting the “party line” he is following the science. 

Previously the CDC ok’d not wearing masks if fully vaccinated (reasonable advice at the time). Now with the rise in the Delta variant they (and the governor in my state) are RECOMMENDING wearing a mask in doors even if vaccinated. For a short time, I followed the advise that allowed me to skip a mask in doors (if the place wasn’t crowded- my requirement), but I always had a mask with me if it was so crowded that I couldn’t social distance. Now I am back to masking when out in public, no matter how un crowded a place is. After likely having Covid AND being vaccinated I felt my risk of serious illness was low. Now, the Delta variant has changed everything. My personal risk of severe consequences is still low but a breakthrough infection could put someone I care for in danger as I know people who cannot get immunized at this time, due to age or medical treatments or poor health (though I stay away from those people for their safety)

I do not understand people who put their “rights” above the health of others.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

KateLyn11 said:


> The very fact that Dr Fauci "contradicts" himself and his advice changes is the very reason I listen to him. He isn't spouting the "party line" he is following the science.


Agreed. People who refuse to alter their approach to problems in the face of new evidence are not scientists. They're not effective leaders. They're not even very smart.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

lizzie91001 said:


> Agreed. People who refuse to alter their approach to problems in the face of new evidence are not scientists. They're not effective leaders. They're not even very smart.


I think it's important that Dr. Fauci doesn't let personal pride get in the way of scientific progress. He's not too proud to say, "Look, we had it wrong. The virus does this, or that, now."
He embraces the idea of scientific change.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

You can admit a person to nursing school but you can't guarantee s/he will learn to think. It is especially sad when people in professions the general public depends on to protect public health are unable to understand the science involved in their major field. Sort of like a mathematician not being able to balance a checkbook or an auto mechanic not able to learn how to drive.



Granny41 said:


> She, who claims to have been a nurse, does not believe the evolving science of COVID19. Her personal assessment is far more accurate. Snort!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

One of the basic tenets of being educated and capable is to be able to adapt as circumstances evolve. Otherwise we would still be living in caves eating raw mastodon meat.


Beachgirl1000 said:


> I think it's important that Dr. Fauci doesn't let personal pride get in the way of scientific progress. He's not too proud to say, "Look, we had it wrong. The virus does this, or that, now."
> He embraces the idea of scientific change.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MarilynKnits said:


> One of the basic tenets of being educated and capable is to be able to adapt as circumstances evolve. Otherwise we would still be living in caves eating raw mastodon meat.


And questioning, always questioning. Striving for a better future.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

KateLyn11 said:


> The very fact that Dr Fauci âcontradictsâ himself and his advice changes is the very reason I listen to him. He isnât spouting the âparty lineâ he is following the science.
> 
> Previously the CDC okâd not wearing masks if fully vaccinated (reasonable advice at the time). Now with the rise in the Delta variant they (and the governor in my state) are RECOMMENDING wearing a mask in doors even if vaccinated. For a short time, I followed the advise that allowed me to skip a mask in doors (if the place wasnât crowded- my requirement), but I always had a mask with me if it was so crowded that I couldnât social distance. Now I am back to masking when out in public, no matter how un crowded a place is. After likely having Covid AND being vaccinated I felt my risk of serious illness was low. Now, the Delta variant has changed everything. My personal risk of severe consequences is still low but a breakthrough infection could put someone I care for in danger as I know people who cannot get immunized at this time, due to age or medical treatments or poor health (though I stay away from those people for their safety)
> 
> I do not understand people who put their ârightsâ above the health of others.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

That's a good one.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I really like it, too.
It's so hard to explain that science and research is a ongoing process, each thing learned is the foundation for the next thing learned and some new learnings tip other things over for a bit until you learn even more.
It is fascinating to watch knowledge unfold and humbling to understand how little we know and how vast the universe is.


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

spins2knit said:


> I would like to see your medical/ scientific source for this.


As would I.
Deb!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> One of the basic tenets of being educated and capable is to be able to adapt as circumstances evolve. Otherwise we would still be living in caves eating raw mastodon meat.


And it would be raw mastodon meat scavenged from carnivore kills because we wouldn't have spear points to kill the mastodons ourselves, fire to chase them over a cliff, or language to coordinate a hunt.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

You would think by now that the orange fog would have dissipated and the bemused ones would have disconnected their wagons from the manure spreader.
This would be humerous if this virus wasn't killing or disabling so many people around the world.
Refusal to "believe" in science while drinking deeply of its benefits is simply mind boggling.
How many people have artificial joints, a pacemaker, stents; how many have had their arteries cleaned out, how many have recovered from a stroke that would have left them bed bound and in misery until they died. How many people have new hearts, new kidneys, new livers?
How many people did you know who died from tuberculosis, diptheria, smallpox, tetanus, rabies, etc.?
That number is low, thank you science.
Do you have a smart phone, a computer? Do you watch TV? Have you been watching the Olympics?
If you are reading this the answer is yes to at least one of these. Thank you science.
I have heard people say they don't believe in science. What? Science is there. That is like not believing in air or water.
Choosing ignorance over knowledge while reaping the benefits of that knowledge every minute of your life goes beyond hypocritical into - I can't think of a word to express the arrogant folly of such a mind set.


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

MoCoop said:


> You would think by now that the orange fog would have dissipated and the bemused ones would have disconnected their wagons from the manure spreader.
> This would be humerous if this virus wasn't killing or disabling so many people around the world.
> Refusal to "believe" in science while drinking deeply of its benefits is simply mind boggling.
> How many people have artificial joints, a pacemaker, stents; how many have had their arteries cleaned out, how many have recovered from a stroke that would have left them bed bound and in misery until they died. How many people have new hearts, new kidneys, new livers?
> ...


My BIL has had a hip replacement,
doesn't trust the vacinne. As Bugs
would say, "What a maroon!"


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MoCoop said:


> You would think by now that the orange fog would have dissipated and the bemused ones would have disconnected their wagons from the manure spreader.
> This would be humerous if this virus wasn't killing or disabling so many people around the world.
> Refusal to "believe" in science while drinking deeply of its benefits is simply mind boggling.
> How many people have artificial joints, a pacemaker, stents; how many have had their arteries cleaned out, how many have recovered from a stroke that would have left them bed bound and in misery until they died. How many people have new hearts, new kidneys, new livers?
> ...


Thank you for posting this. So well said and so True. It is really hard and discouraging for me when I look around at people who I thought were too smart to fall for all the lies. I avoid most of my (friends ?) now because my husband and I have never stopped wearing masks and do not allow anyone into our home and I am sick of hearing how foolish we are. Remarks like "that mask looks stupid - take it off - oh you are one of them"
I have hope tho because last week I had an appointment for a eye exam and my husband one for a checkup and both offices asked if we were vaccinated and said to bring our cards and wear masks.
It is not fair to expect businesses to enforce wearing masks as people have gotten killed already because they asked a person to wear a mask.
There should be a law passed saying Wear The Damm Mask or Stay Home.
A simple mask when we are required in order to drive a car legally to have a license. insurance on the car, license plates and wear seat belts.
Not to mention we are required to wear clothes in public.
My rant for the day


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

Murphie said:


> We have had several people stop by our house as we were sitting on the carport.
> One wanted a cigarette so he took off his mask. I asked him to put it back on then went in the house.
> I came out a few minutes later and he was still maskless. I told him to leave. He was not welcome if he can't abide by my rules.
> He was shocked, but I told him again. "Get out"
> ...


Good for you!!!! We do not allow anyone into our home either and wear masks whenever around others. One ex-friend who came unvaccinated and no mask and opened the door and was going to walk right in.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> You would think by now that the orange fog would have dissipated and the bemused ones would have disconnected their wagons from the manure spreader.
> This would be humerous if this virus wasn't killing or disabling so many people around the world.
> Refusal to "believe" in science while drinking deeply of its benefits is simply mind boggling.
> How many people have artificial joints, a pacemaker, stents; how many have had their arteries cleaned out, how many have recovered from a stroke that would have left them bed bound and in misery until they died. How many people have new hearts, new kidneys, new livers?
> ...


Ant vaxxers can deny it all they want, but the REAL reason is they listen to trump and believe what Fox news tells them.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Ant vaxxers can deny it all they want, but the REAL reason is they listen to trump and believe what Fox news tells them.


That's probably mostly true with respect to the covid vaccine, but not 100%. When I lived in an affluent and very left-leaning area of Los Angeles, I regularly encountered people who resisted vaccinating themselves or their children against anything. They were in the minority, but they were vocal. Most tended to favor Bernie. They were not Trump voters by any means.

There are nut cases everywhere.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

lizzie91001 said:


> That's probably mostly true with respect to the covid vaccine, but not 100%. When I lived in an affluent and very left-leaning area of Los Angeles, I regularly encountered people who resisted vaccinating themselves or their children against anything. They were in the minority, but they were vocal. Most tended to favor Bernie. They were not Trump voters by any means.
> 
> There are nut cases everywhere.


True, there are those anti vaxxers, but it seems to me that this crop of Covid vaccine deniers is more right leaning. Often they parrot the same Fox news phraseology, complete with criticism of Dr. Fauci. They're usually anti mask, as well.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

MoCoop said:


> You would think by now that the orange fog would have dissipated and the bemused ones would have disconnected their wagons from the manure spreader.
> This would be humerous if this virus wasn't killing or disabling so many people around the world.
> Refusal to "believe" in science while drinking deeply of its benefits is simply mind boggling.
> How many people have artificial joints, a pacemaker, stents; how many have had their arteries cleaned out, how many have recovered from a stroke that would have left them bed bound and in misery until they died. How many people have new hearts, new kidneys, new livers?
> ...


----------



## crochetknit Deb (Sep 18, 2012)

My home NY County has brought
back the wearing of masks in county
offices, due to the new Covid virus.


----------



## Scarlet (Apr 5, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Ant vaxers can deny it all they want, but the REAL reason is they listen to trump and believe what Fox news tells them.


Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.

I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.

To just declare that Fox and Trump (and you probably think anyone who's conservative) is against the vaccination, is just so hateful - we shouldn't be so full of hate.

And by the way, the cdc says the people who have had the fewest vaccinations are people of color, not the Fox and Trump people.


----------



## Scarlet (Apr 5, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 wrote:
"Ant vaxxers can deny it all they want, but the REAL reason is they listen to trump and believe what Fox news tells them."

Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.

I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors. 

To just declare that Fox and Trump (and you probably think anyone who's conservative) is against the vaccination, is just so hateful - we shouldn't be so full of hate. 

And by the way, the cdc says the people who have had the fewest vaccinations are people of color, not the Fox and Trump people


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

Scarlet said:


> Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.
> 
> I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.
> 
> ...


Explain the actions of Florida Governor De Santos if you can!


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

Scarlet said:


> Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.
> 
> I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.
> 
> ...


No, trump didn't work hard. He was a dismal failure at his handling of the Covid crisis. And pointing out the deficiencies of the Trump administration is not "hateful," and it doesn't mean that doing so means people are "full of hate."

Here's a timeline of trump's response to the virus:

"Timeline of Trump's Coronavirus Responses | Congressman Lloyd Doggett" https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses

Here's an article about trump's vaccine program. Read it. Then try to tell me trump tried so hard to cope with Covid.

"Trump's administration fell far short of its own vaccine promises - The Washington Post" https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/01/19/trumps-administration-fell-far-short-its-own-vaccine-promises/?outputType=amp

Dateline January 19, 2021 at 4:44 p.m. EST

Four days after the first coronavirus vaccine received emergency use authorization in the United States, the head of the White House's Operation Warp Speed vaccine effort appeared on MSNBC.

"In the month of December, between the two vaccines - the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccine - we expect to have immunized 20 million of our American people," Moncef Slaoui said on Dec. 15.

But despite the Trump administration's repeated promises to deliver tens or even hundreds of millions of coronavirus vaccine doses by the new year, President Trump is set to leave office Wednesday having delivered only a fraction of the doses his administration pledged.

As of Monday, just over 31 million coronavirus vaccine doses had been delivered nationwide. Fewer than half of those have been administered.

This despite months of promises from Trump officials that the United States would distribute no fewer than 40 million coronavirus vaccine doses and administer doses to 20 million Americans by the end of December. The Trump administration did not even deliver 20 million vaccine doses until Jan. 7.

And here's a report from the BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-55721437.amp

So how slow was the rollout under the Trump administration?
...the US fell far short of the target set by the Trump administration to vaccinate 20 million people by the end of 2020. By 31 December, fewer than three million had received one.

President Biden's Chief of Staff, Ron Klain has said a plan to distribute vaccines "out into the community as a whole, did not really exist when we came into the White House".

Public health professor at George Washington University, Dr Leana Wen said: "The federal government seemed to have ceded its responsibility at the point the vaccines were given to the states.

"The state and local health departments have been asking for months for additional funding, and have not been given the funding that they need," she added.

Local authorities have said this delay affected the setting up vaccine centres, and hiring staff to work in them.


----------



## lizzie91001 (Aug 14, 2016)

Scarlet said:


> Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.
> 
> I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.
> 
> ...


Trump was totally behind the vaccine while he still thought its development would boost his re-election chances. After the election, his attention shifted almost exclusively to whining about his loss. He was still president for more than two months after the election, but he did almost nothing at that point to ensure vaccine roll-out because it wasn't going to help him politically. If he'd done anything to facilitate getting it distributed so that it could go into arms as quickly as possible, even those of us who've always despised him wouldn't begrudge him a bit of credit. But he didn't.

Yes, he has said, in passing, that people ought to get vaccinated. In the same breath, he attacks Fauci and the science community. How many people do you think he's persuaded to get the shot? Has he really made much of an effort?

The question as to which community is least vaccinated is an interesting one, but the fact is that in recent weeks, the states with the highest infection rates happen to be states where leadership in fighting the pandemic has been weak.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

I live in north Idaho. This state is about 7th from the bottom in percentile of people vaccinated. The population is predominantly white and overwhelmingly pro Trump. The signs are still up, proclaiming "Trump Country". People refuse to mask, refuse to vaccinate, harrass people who do mask and insist that Trump will be back, some of them insist that he never left.
People from this state were amongst the criminals involved in the January 6 insurrection. They think Trump will allow them anarchy and supremacy over all races and all females.

This is not a good place for rational people like myself to feel safe.

Trump used the vaccine as a political tool. He mocked people who masked and held super spreader events at the peak of the pandemic. 
The one good thing he did was fund operation warp speed but he lost interest in it when it didn't get him reelected. He golfed and whined and complained and ignored the fact that people were dying. After his defeat he just turned his back on this country. 
He shamed this country deeply and he was a mass of misinformation while he was in office.
He knew the virus was deadly but publicly denied it. He lied to the whole country. Repeatedly.
I watched his speeches and was flummoxed when he undermined the medical experts we needed to keep this country safe.
His presidency was all about his ego and hundreds of thousands are needlessly dead because of his poor leadership.
Fox and Trump are against persons of color voting, persons of alternate gender voting, poor people voting (if they are democrat), heck, they are against Democrats voting.
The pandemic shouldn't be political. People are dying.
It is up to all people, regardless of what they feel or believe, to mask up, stay away from crowds, and for crying out loud, get vaccinated.



Scarlet said:


> Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.
> 
> I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.
> 
> ...


----------



## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MoCoop said:


> I live in north Idaho. This state is about 7th from the bottom in percentile of people vaccinated. The population is predominantly white and overwhelmingly pro Trump. The signs are still up, proclaiming "Trump Country". People refuse to mask, refuse to vaccinate, harrass people who do mask and insist that Trump will be back, some of them insist that he never left.
> People from this state were amongst the criminals involved in the January 6 insurrection. They think Trump will allow them anarchy and supremacy over all races and all females.
> 
> This is not a good place for rational people like myself to feel safe.
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24:


----------



## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I live in north Idaho. This state is about 7th from the bottom in percentile of people vaccinated. The population is predominantly white and overwhelmingly pro Trump. The signs are still up, proclaiming "Trump Country". People refuse to mask, refuse to vaccinate, harrass people who do mask and insist that Trump will be back, some of them insist that he never left.
> People from this state were amongst the criminals involved in the January 6 insurrection. They think Trump will allow them anarchy and supremacy over all races and all females.
> 
> This is not a good place for rational people like myself to feel safe.
> ...


We lived in Pocatello, Idaho, for 18 months beginning in 1960 while DH was trained by the US Navy in nuclear power at Arco. There were some areas of extremism then, but nothing like there are now. It makes me feel very sad because it's such a beautiful state.


----------



## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Scarlet said:


> Like him or not, Trump is the one who worked so hard to get the vaccine out there. He had the shot himself and I'm sure you've heard him tell people to get the shot. Well, yeh, I understand if his appearance on TV makes you turn to another channel or what ever then you haven't heard him, but he has asked people to get vaccinated the 1 or 2 times I happened to hear him and yes, I think it was on Fox.
> 
> I listen to various news programs to see all sides - and there are alot of sides! - and Fox is not against vaccines. Also they have Fauci on, the women ahead of the CDC, surgeon general - and other doctors.
> 
> ...


trump was sitting on vital information about the lethal danger of this virus from the beginning and made the conscious decision to withhold that information. He admitted to this and it has been recorded. He also mocked those wearing masks, suggested injecting disinfectants, digesting bleach and fish tank algae killers. He held one rally after another in congested venues, had the signs taken off seats that were there to provide distancing from others. Fox News has just recently started shying away from discouraging vaccines, however Tucker Carlson is still digging in his heels. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/23/fox-news-covid-vaccination-tucker-carlson


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I am ranting right along with you.

These covidiots are trampling on my civil right to stay alive by not being vaccinated, not masking, and mingling with the general public.

If they don't want to wear masks they should stay home. If they don't want their children to wear masks, home school them, send them to a private school where they don't require masks, or let them grow up to be ignorant trolls like themselves. If they don't want to be vaccinated or wear masks, let *them* order food online and pay for home delivery and any other service charges.



farmlady said:


> Thank you for posting this. So well said and so True. It is really hard and discouraging for me when I look around at people who I thought were too smart to fall for all the lies. I avoid most of my (friends ?) now because my husband and I have never stopped wearing masks and do not allow anyone into our home and I am sick of hearing how foolish we are. Remarks like "that mask looks stupid - take it off - oh you are one of them"
> I have hope tho because last week I had an appointment for a eye exam and my husband one for a checkup and both offices asked if we were vaccinated and said to bring our cards and wear masks.
> It is not fair to expect businesses to enforce wearing masks as people have gotten killed already because they asked a person to wear a mask.
> There should be a law passed saying Wear The Damm Mask or Stay Home.
> ...


----------



## Granny41 (Feb 24, 2015)

MarilynKnits said:


> I am ranting right along with you.
> 
> These covidiots are trampling on my civil right to stay alive by not being vaccinated, not masking, and mingling with the general public.
> 
> If they don't want to wear masks they should stay home. If they don't want their children to wear masks, home school them, send them to a private school where they don't require masks, or let them grow up to be ignorant trolls like themselves. If they don't want to be vaccinated or wear masks, let *them* order food online and pay for home delivery and any other service charges.


This was the message that I got from a covidiot on another thread where I complained about social distancing not being observed but mandated in a local supermarket. https://www.knittingparadise.com/t-711339-3.html#16237157

ETA
and I quote: "Try showing a little grace. I'm sure she called them forward out of habit, not out of spite, since you seem so proud of yourself and your ability to distance without prompting. Do you ever think about how many people touch those items before you bagged them? Unless you wish to stay home without any human contact, there will be exposure in some way."


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

We have a friend who is a college graduate (a prestigious engineering school) and worked as a chemical engineer until retirement. He is vaccinated only because his wife told him either get vaccinated or find somewhere else to live. He listens to Faux news and believes the offal lies they spew. (I know how I spelled the adjective.) He is not stupid. He is conservative and doesn't like the "liberal agenda". He was not amused when I asked him if he was against social security and medicare. Confucius says, "You can lead a man toward wisdom, but you cannot make him think" Not really what Confucius said, but the idea resonated with me.


Beachgirl1000 said:


> Ant vaxxers can deny it all they want, but the REAL reason is they listen to trump and believe what Fox news tells them.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MoCoop said:


> I live in north Idaho. This state is about 7th from the bottom in percentile of people vaccinated. The population is predominantly white and overwhelmingly pro Trump. The signs are still up, proclaiming "Trump Country". People refuse to mask, refuse to vaccinate, harrass people who do mask and insist that Trump will be back, some of them insist that he never left.
> People from this state were amongst the criminals involved in the January 6 insurrection. They think Trump will allow them anarchy and supremacy over all races and all females.
> 
> This is not a good place for rational people like myself to feel safe.
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: Well Said


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

knovice knitter said:


> trump was sitting on vital information about the lethal danger of this virus from the beginning and made the conscious decision to withhold that information. He admitted to this and it has been recorded. He also mocked those wearing masks, suggested injecting disinfectants, digesting bleach and fish tank algae killers. He held one rally after another in congested venues, had the signs taken off seats that were there to provide distancing from others. Fox News has just recently started shying away from discouraging vaccines, however Tucker Carlson is still digging in his heels. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/jul/23/fox-news-covid-vaccination-tucker-carlson


I found this yesterday. I think I posted it earlier. It's the timeline of trump's public responses to Covid matters. It's interesting, but disgusting, reading.

https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Even though I was aware of most of these events as they happened, seeing them all together is sickening. Knowing that they are just hitting the strongest points doesn't make me feel any better. The reality, as you lived it, was even more horrific. The man is an amoral monster.



Beachgirl1000 said:


> I found this yesterday. I think I posted it earlier. It's the timeline of trump's public responses to Covid matters. It's interesting, but disgusting, reading.
> 
> https://doggett.house.gov/media-center/blog-posts/timeline-trump-s-coronavirus-responses


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> Even though I was aware of most of these events as they happened, seeing them all together is sickening. Knowing that they are just hitting the strongest points doesn't make me feel any better. The reality, as you lived it, was even more horrific. The man is an amoral monster.


He's an immoral monster on a good day. Words have not yet been invented to describe him at his most evil, vicious, and indifferent to human suffering.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> He's an immoral monster on a good day. Words have not yet been invented to describe him at his most evil, vicious, and indifferent to human suffering.


I used amoral on purpose, your answer made me look up the difference: "Immoral refers to a conscientious rejection of typical moral standards and has a connotation of evil or wrongdoing. ... Finally, amoral implies an awareness of moral standards, but a lack of concern for them while acting."

I guess either applies, sometimes he's intentionally evil and sometimes he just doesn't really care what is right or wrong.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> I used amoral on purpose, your answer made me look up the difference: "Immoral refers to a conscientious rejection of typical moral standards and has a connotation of evil or wrongdoing. ... Finally, amoral implies an awareness of moral standards, but a lack of concern for them while acting."
> 
> I guess either applies, sometimes he's intentionally evil and sometimes he just doesn't really care what is right or wrong.


Yeah. I meant to write "amoral," and I do know the difference. Maybe spell check did it. I usually check before hitting send, but I missed that one!


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Yeah. I meant to write "amoral," and I do know the difference. Maybe spell check did it. I usually check before hitting send, but I missed that one!


I'm glad that you did, it really emphasized the scope of lack of empathy and greed this country suffered through those difficult 4 years.


----------



## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MoCoop said:


> I'm glad that you did, it really emphasized the scope of lack of empathy and greed this country suffered through those difficult 4 years.


These people, trump and all his associates and family, are people who will never understand the damage they've done. It's as if they're missing some important component of what it is to be human, like a crippling genetic defect. Somehow they all found each other and wielded their collective power to do harm, just to enrich themselves and cause suffering. They're still working toward that end. They won't stop until they draw their last breath. I wish I believed in a burning hell.


----------



## MoCoop (Feb 17, 2014)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> These people, trump and all his associates and family, are people who will never understand the damage they've done. It's as if they're missing some important component of what it is to be human, like a crippling genetic defect. Somehow they all found each other and wielded their collective power to do harm, just to enrich themselves and cause suffering. They're still working toward that end. They won't stop until they draw their last breath. I wish I believed in a burning hell.


I have seen people like these throughout my life and I have never been able to understand them at all. You're right, they seem to be missing something, they just don't get it, if someone in a group they don't identify doing well, then they must drag them down. They see no advantage in developing their own character but deplore faults in everyone else.
They will damage themselves, their families, their very well-being to harm others. Somehow they are able to inflame others to follow them and when they get together everyone suffers. They may have some short term gains but they always fall in the end. For those who are stuck trying to deal with them this is no comfort at all.
To me it is insanity, just wrong, there is no growth there.


----------

