# #51 CLOSED -Learn to make socks using 2 circular needles with Darowil



## Designer1234

#51 WORKSHOP - Learn to make socks using 2 circular needles with Darowil!

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I would like to introduce our teacher : Darowil, who has taught us magic loop, toe up socks with magic loop and now socks using two circular needles. (Darowil has also taught other classes for us). I want to personally thank her for supporting our workshop section. No other teacher has taught more workshops and we appreciate it.

The Manager who will be helping Darowil is prismaticr -


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## Designer1234

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## darowil

*DAROWIL HERE* Good morning and welcome from a lovely warm Adelaide-

First up is the information sheet I posted on the intro topic, and so is this first download (identical in contents to this posting). So this information is mainly aimed at those who want t recheck it or who come to this workshop later.

*2 AT A TIME INFORMATION.*

This workshop will teach you to knit two socks at a time on two circulars needles (if any one wants to do just one sock at a time feel free to do so).
The big advantage of this method is that you end up with a pair once you finish- great for those who suffer from SSS (Second Sock Syndrome when you get all excited about knitting the first sock but then get bored and fail to do the second one). 
For a summary of what you need to get- especially for those who are more experienced sock knitters look near the end of this post.

*NEEDLES*

The best guide for needle size is the ball band- each yarn can be slightly different. 
I'm a non swatcher and tend to pick the size for my socks by what is hanging on my door ! But I always use between a 2.00mm and 2.5mm (US 0 or 1- we have a 2.25mm as well so that is one in between the US numbers) for 4 ply/fingering. BUT I am a loose knitter who often needs to go down 2 needle sizes to get anywhere near the right tension. So depending on your average tension you can determine which needle size to use. Loose knitters pick the smallest size (or even one under), average knitters middle size and tight knitters largest size

Socks are stetchy and so the size is not essential- however they do need to have a firm tension (this helps them to wear better and to fit better) so use a size less than you normally would for a 4 ply/fingering.

One reason I don't worry with swatches is that to be accurate they should be done in the round and I figure that by time I knit enough to have a swatch I could be well on the way to having a sock knitted if the tension/gauge is correct and haven't lost anything if it is wrong as I would have needed to undone much the same amount of work anyway. On an individual sock this may mean I need to spend extra time on frogging but overall I have saved a lot of time as the majority of my socks work on my first needle chose.

But if you want more information on swatching for socks (applies to anything knitted in the round) go to 5mmdpns workshop 'just in time for Xmas'(dpns socks). On her first page she gives a bit more information, and also in barbyjones' post further down

Workshop link http://www.knittingparadise.com/s-105-1.html

If you need to buy needles you will need to guesstimate the needle size anyway.

For any who may not be used to circular needles the size is the diameter of the needle and is the same as straight needles. The length is the total length of both needles (sometimes called tips especially in interchangeables) and the cord.
*YARNS.*
Using a sock yarn is advisable; most have some form of nylon in them, which helps with both durability and elasticity. Some sock yarns are specially woven with 100% wool but I still find some felting occur on heels- heat and friction after all are the two factors needed for felting and are present on heels especially (and toes to some extent).

*MATERIALS NEEDED*

Clearly you will need two circular needles of the same size. I suggest though that you get two different types- you always keep the same stitches on the same needle so if you have two different types of tips it will be very easy to tell which needle you should be knitting onto. Even with this I do at times find myself using the wrong one, but normally can get it right. Length is not essential; some suggest a 40cm/16 and a 60cm/24. And if you are using two needles the same I definitely suggest the length difference as a bit of a guide as to which to use.
I am using a 60cm and 80cm currently and the 60cm is the better length. The extra length is not needed and a bit of a nuisance. I havent used the 40cm as I dont have the right sizes in this length but my personal feeling is that they may be bit too short.

2 50gm (1 ¾ ozs) balls of sock weight sock yarn (4ply/fingering weight). While you can use 1 100gm ball it is easier to have 2 smaller balls otherwise you will need to unwind and rewind the yarn before using it. The length will vary but will be around 180metres/200 yards. But 50 gm in this weight yarn will be ample for the majority of socks- regardless of the length (very large feet or significantly longer socks may not work , but anyone following my pattern will have no problems getting one sock out of each 50gm ball).
As you will see from the photos I have chosen to actually do two different socks so it is easy to pick which one is which for photographing. For those of you with lots of sock yarn you might want to do the same. But one of the advantages of this method is that you end with a completed pair at the end- and instead I will end up with two half finished pairs!

Pattern will be available as a download in a later posting. Anyone who is used to knitting socks and has a pattern of their own with a short row heel is welcome to use their own. Im not experienced enough in this method to help you with a flap and gusset heel (ignore this is you dont know what I am talking about as it will only apply if you understand me!). 
I will be using a toe-up pattern again. This time because if you make mistakes early on there is much less to frog- and frogging involves pulling both socks undone! Or pulling them off the needles working on one until they match again and then putting the other back on the needles again.


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## darowil

*I am providing a basic toe up sock pattern with a short row heel (almost identical to the magic loop pattern for those who did that workshop)*.

Any short row heel can be used (one of the pairs I started I used the Fish Lips Heel rather than my normal heel- but didnt like it so kept to my normal heelf or the next ones).

NOTE: If you change the heel pattern it must be one that is worked separately without any rounds in it- but almost all the short row heels will work well.

The sweet Tomato Heel wont work as it has some rounds knitted through the heel rather than all in rows.

(_I would assume that you could work out any heel but I have only worked it on a short row heel.
Other heels would need juggling to get them worked out and I am not experienced enough in the method to know how to do this_)

While I have plain feet and legs a pattern can be added to these if desired.

*WORKING IN THE ROUND*
For those of you who are working in the round for the first time it is important to realize that because you always have the front of the work facing you for stocking stitch/stockinette you work all rounds in knit stitch. As the heel is worked flat you do purl in the heel.

Pull firmly as you begin each side of the sock. As long as you pull the needle cable close to the needle and pull the yarn firmly you shouldnt have a problem with laddering


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## darowil

*SEE PDF OF PATTERN AT THE BOTTOM OF THIS POST*

And now for what you all eagerly waiting for -the pattern.
I will also include the pattern as a pdf download for those wanting to print it or dowmaload onto iPad, phone etc.

Please read my next post as well for information on how I measure for my socks.

the next posting will be information on doing the cast on and knitting the two socks. Tomorrow I will post the heel information- I will be very surprised if anyone is ready for the heel information before then (and if you are you can probably manage with just the pattern!)
*BASIC TOE-¬UP SOCKS FOR TWO AT A TIME ON TWO CIRCULARS.
ABBREVIATIONS.*
K knit

M1 make 1 (pick up loop between the worked stitch and the stitch to 
be worked, place it on the left needle and work into the back of the stitch.

w&t wrap and turn. Bring the yarn forward (to the front of the work), slip the next stitch onto the right needle purlwise, return the yarn to the back of the work (you have now wrapped the slipped stitch in the working yarn), slip the stitch back to the left needle. Turn the work ready to begin the next row.

spwk2tog Slip next stitch to right needle, put left needle into the wrap around this stitch pick up wrap , leave this on the left needle and transfer the slipped stitch back onto the left needle. Work the stitch and the lifted wrap together (on a knit row knit together, on a purl row purl the stitches together),

spwsk3tog Slip next stitch to right needle, put left needle into both wraps around this stitch pick up wraps , leave them on the left needle and transfer the slipped stitch back onto the left needle. Work the stitch and the lifted wraps together (on a knit row knit together, on a purl row purl the stitches together),

*MATERIALS*
100gm 4 ply/fingering weight yarn. (2 50gm balls). 
2 Circular needles- ideally 2 different types. Needle size-¬‐ as I said in the introduction go by the size recommended on the yarn band., adapting for your own approximate tension-¬‐ tending towards slightly tighter rather than looser.
Needle for threading through ends the two yarn ends.
Scissors
Tape measure (optional as I will be telling you how to do the measuring without a tape measure, assuming you are doing the socks for yourself, someone with a similar size hand or the persons hand easily accessible when you are knitting!). 
*PATTERN *
TOE and LEGS. 
TURKISH CAST ON.

Step 1. Make a slipknot on the bottom needles (doesnt matter how this is just holding the yarn in place and will soon be removed and not used) Hold one of each tip together and wind the yarn round the two needles 12 times (for 24 stitch cast on)

Step 2. Slid these loops onto the cables.

Step 3. Repeat step 1 with the other ball of yarn.

Step 4. Slid the BOTTOM needle along so these are on the cable

Step 5. Using the other tip of the top needle knit these stitches. Then slide these stitches onto the cable.

Step 6. Then slid the stitches from the second sock on this needles cable onto the tip. Knit these stitches and slide them onto the cable.

Step 7. Turn the work and slide the first of the remaining two sets of loops onto the tip attached to this cable. Slip the slipknot off the needle and undo the knot. Holding this yarn as in the photo knit these stitches. Then slide them onto the cable.

Step 8. Slid the last lot of loops onto the needle tip and repeat as for step 7. Turn the work

COMMENCE TOES.
Round 1. Slide the first lot of stitches onto the needle tip and knit, slide onto the cable,. Repeat for the second set of stitches. Turn work. Repeat for the second needle.

Round 2. Slide the first lot of stitches onto the needle tip, K1, m1, knit to last stitch, m1, k1.slide onto the cable,. Repeat for the second set of stitches. Turn work. Repeat for the second needle.

Repeat these two rounds until you have 64 stitches.
Then repeat round 1 only until desired length.

HEELS
This is a short row heel, which means that each row is stopped before the end of the previous row and then you turn the work around. Simply follow the instructions, remembering that the rows you are working are getting shorter, but that you still have the other stitches on the needle . You are simply not working them for the first half of the heel. And for the second half of the heel you gradually start working them again. 
The heels are worked separately- work the first heel completely and then work the second heel.
Row 1. Knit 31, w&t 
Row 2. Purl30, w&t 
Row 3. Knit 29, w&t 
Row 4. Purl 28, w&t 
Row 5. Knit 27, w&t 
Row 6. Purl26, w&t 
Row 7. Knit 25, w&t
Row 8. Purl24, w&t 
Row 9. Knit 23, w&t 
Row 10. Purl22, w&t 
Row 11. Knit 21, w&t
Row 12. Purl20, w&t 
Row 13. Knit 19, w&t 
Row 14. Pur18, w&t 
Row 15. Knit 17, w&t 
Row 16. Purl16, w&t 
Row 17. Knit 15, w&t 
Row 18. Pur14, w&t
Row 19. Knit 13, w&t 
Row 20. Purl12, w&t 
This is the bottom half of the heel completed, now you begin to knit the top half which will pull the two halves together. I love watching how this comes out. 
Row 21. knit 12, spwk2tog, w&t
Row 22. purl 13, spwk2tog, w&t
Row 23. Knit 14, spwsk3tog, w&t (note the change from here on picking up the wraps).
Row 24Purl 15, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 25. Knit 16, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 26. Purl 17, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 27 Knit 18, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 28. Purl 19, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 29. Knit 20, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 30. Purl 21, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 31 Knit 22, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 32. Purl 23, spwsk3tog , w&t 
Row 33. Knit 24 spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 34. Purl 25, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 35. Knit 26, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 36. Purl 27, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 37. Knit 28, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 38. Purl 29, spwsk3tog , w&t
Row 39. Knit 30 slip the last stitch to the right needle pick up the two wraps return the slipped stitch to the left needle and knit all three together, turn 
Row 40 purl 31, slip the last stitch to the right needle pick up the two wraps return the slipped stitch to the left needle and purl all three together, turn 
Row 41 knit the row.

You will now have one completed heel. Slip the completed heel stitches onto the cable of the needle they are on. Move the other sock onto to the tip of the needle and work this heel the same way.

After the second heel is finished return to knitting in the round.
Knit until the desired length-¬‐ leaving 5-¬‐10cms/1-¬‐2 inches for the cuff. (If using my measuring knit until the leg length is approximately to the beginning of the toe). 
Work in rounds of k2p2 rib. Until the desired cuff length (I usually do about the length of the toe so the two halves of the sock are the same size). 
Stretchy Cast off/bind off.
Work 2 stitches, slip left needle into the two stitches on the right needle and work them together. *Work one stitch, slip left needle into the two stitches on the right needle and work them together. Work from * to end of round. Thread the yarn through the last stitch (as with the normal cast off/bind off).

MEASURING HINT.
I rarely use a tape measure for my socks. I use my hand. This method works for both toe up and cuff down socks. If you want to use a tape measure then about 5cm/2 shorter than the foot length is a guide.
The length of your hand from the heel to the tip of your middle finger is the foot measurement before you begin to shape your heel or toe. Measure from the beginning of the work and when it is the length of your hand then you begin to shape the heel.
And the foot and leg measurements work out well if they are the same. So for the leg work until the length is about the same as that from the heel to the beginning of the toe shaping. Then begin the cuff. Simply fold the sock across the heel shaping to measure.
(For those who do or might do cuff down you can use the same principle. Work the cuff until it is about one thumb length. Then work the leg until it is hand length (including cuff), work the heel then the foot until it is the length of the leg up to the cuff and work the toe.) 
If I know the person I am knitting for has small feet I just make it slightly smaller than my hand, or bigger for a bigger foot. If working for someone with especially 
large or small feet then you can manage with a hand measurement of the person you are working them for. 
When working the second sock if you are making identical twins then pull the yarn out until you find the same point (Make sure you pull the yarn the same way as you did for the first sock i.e. both from the middle or both from the outside). And in this case I work until I reach the same point in the pattern as with the first sock rather than measuring for beginning the heel and the cuff. After all the change in pattern will be more obvious than one or two rows difference in length once they are on someones feet.


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## darowil

MORE INFORMATION to help you make sense of the pattern.
This will take longer as I have photos to post as well- and only up to the heel today, as I said heel tomorrow.

As I do not know how to embed the photos into my text the text will sometimes seem a bit odd as it is connected to the photos at the bottom. But i hope the photos are clearly marked.

TURKISH CAST ON.

Step 1. Make a slipknot on the bottom needles (doesnt matter how this is just holding the yarn in place and will soon be removed and not used) Hold one of each tip together and wind the yarn round the two needles 12 times (for 24 stitch cast on) (see photo).

Step 2. Slid these loops onto the cables.

Step 3. Repeat step 1 with the other ball of yarn.

Step 4. Slide the BOTTOM needle along so these are on the cable.

Step 5. Using the other tip of the top needle knit these stitches. Then slide these stitches onto the cable.

Step 6. Then slid the stitches from the second sock on this needles cable onto the tip. Knit these stitches and slide them onto the cable.

Step 7. Turn the work and slide the first of the remaining two sets of loops onto the tip attached to this cable. Slip the slipknot off the needle and undo the knot. Holding this yarn as in the photo knit these stitches. Then slide them onto the cable.

Step 8. Slid the last lot of loops onto the needle tip and repeat as for step 7. Turn the work.

COMMENCE TOES.

Round 1. Slide the first lot of stitches onto the needle tip and knit, slide onto the cable,. Repeat for the second set of stitches. Turn work. Repeat for the second needle.

Round 2. Slide the first lot of stitches onto the needle tip, K1, m1, knit to last stitch, m1, k1.slide onto the cable,. Repeat for the second set of stitches. Turn work. Repeat for the second needle.

Repeat these two rounds until you have 64 stitches.
Then repeat round 1 only until desired length.

* Ready to begin round 1*

Note sock one (blue) has one set of stitches on the first needle and the other on the cable.

Sock 2 has the two stitches on two different cables.,

the yarn is placed at the back of the work and the yarn has been untangled so they are quite separate from each other.

*When about to start a new needle the yarn will always be on the cable *  (the only exception here is the heel when you will knitting in rows not rounds)

First set of stitches knitted and now on the cable and the second set moved onto the needle tip ready to knit.

*USEFUL TIPS*

You will always be knitting the stitches onto the same needle- NEVER will one set of stitches be moved to the other needle, so before beginning each half round check that you have two matching tips (do you now see why I recommend two different needles?). So the front of the socks are knitted on one needle and the bottom on the other needle- and this principal applies all the way through the sock even when you get to the heel.

And if you always make sure that the yarn is at the back of the work before your rounds and separate from each other you will avoid tangling of the yarns.

After I had done the heels I remembered reading somewhere that you can put the balls of yarn into the sock once you have a few inches knitted.

I tried it. It is a bit awkward knitting with the yarn in the knitted foot but it does make it very easy to stop the yarn tangling.

It is much quicker swapping between needles.

You will need to pull the yarn from the centre of the ball to do this- and make sure that you place it in the foot with the end the yarn is coming from facing towards the needles.

Remember the simple point that the yarn is always in the stitch that you just knitted and will be in your right hand-and you need to knit the stitch to the left of this one.

In the picture underneath the yarn is at the back because you just knitted this row, so you need to do the stitch to the left of this one, which at the end of the row is the first stitch on the next needle.

 How do you know when you have reached the end of the round?

Easy- the tail is in the MIDDLE of the round. So you begin the increases at the end without the tail.

Lost track of your increase rows?

It is very hard to pick up a loop if you did a m1 the row before so this will be your knit round (each increase row will have 8 increases, two on the first side of the first sock, 2 on the first side of the second sock and then the same for the second sides of both socks.


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## kaixixang

This is the information I already got in PDF on my machine...but Prismaticr can negotiate with the author of this for full attachment here:
http://www.tsocktsarina.com/tech/turkishco.pdf

This will have the pictorial to support the information that Darowil is trying to teach. Now to learn the stretchy cuff...whenever that page comes up.


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## darowil

IMPORTANT
May have worked out how to compress a file to send it so will try.

YIPEE it worked! so now the photos are easily accessible for you along with the written words.


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## Designer1234

darowil said:


> Well I will try again to post the PDF I was trying- might be too big. And I see it has taken me so long that my editing time has run out. While need to get Prictmaticr helping.
> Maybe I will try just the cast on first
> Clearly this isn't going to work. I will send it to Prismaticr to work her wonders. But first I will check everything else as well- she can fix what needs fixing as well.


LADIES- DESIGNER HERE. THE PDF FOR THE PATTERN is at the bottom of the pattern post.

I have highlighted the rest of the information. There is enough information for you to get started so 
ask your questions.

There have been a couple of problems but I think they are either solved or will be in a very short while. thanks for your patience-


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## Designer1234

There are now*75students in this class*.! your I'm In' posts have been deleted up to now.

Please read this workshop from the beginning - some pdfs have been added - We hope you enjoy this workshop.Please don't hesitate to ask questions -- remember Darowil is in Australia - so she will answer any and all of them when she comes back on. Have fun everyone!

Designer1234


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## retirednelda

ok, I just ordered 2 types of needles so as soon as I get them, I will start too! looking forward to finally making my son who wears a size 15 shoe a nice pair of socks.


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## darowil

Good morning from a lovely Adelaide. Good to see so many faces- new and old friends as well. As nothing for me to answer just yet I will go on with my morning including writing up more things for the heels. Which I'm assuming no-one neeeds in a hurry? If anyone is racing ahead let me know- or go ahead yourself. You do have all the essentials provided already. I was simply going to talk more about heels. (and I've re thought the Sweet Tomato Heel, if you are confident with it you could probably work out how to do it, but I have never done it- think I have one half finished somewhere!). Will explain later how I THINK it would work.


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## grannyfabulous4

Darowil, you did such a wonderful job teaching the Magic Loop sock, that the only thing for me to learn really is using the 2 needles. Have to try all possibilities!


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## darowil

Sjk0508 said:


> If I only wanted to cast on 60 stitches...how would I adjust when I get to the heel?


No real adjustment needed- simply work 2 less heel rows (still go down to the 12 as I have in the pattern , you will simply need 2 less rows to reach there- and of course 2 less going back up).

And for amyone wanting to go up to 68 stitches simply do 2 more rows for the heel. Any further changes in stitch counts I would be looking at adjusting the caston and heel sttiches. As you will see when you get to the heel I start withthe same number of sttiches on each needles as I finsih the heel with. (So in this pattern 12 stitches on each needle=24 cast on and down to 12 for the heel. Helps make remebering the pattern easier and works. Easy as well to use the same principle when using heavier yarns or making significantly different sized socks to those in this pattern.


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## darowil

Lovehandles said:


> Hello, I was wondering why you didn't care for the FLK heel. I've tried it and found it to be easy though I've never done short row heels. I'm looking forward to giving them a try.


HEELS
I didn't like how it looked. And she assured us that there is no need to pick up a stitch at the end of the heel because it doesn't leave a hole I didn't do so and got a hole.
I also didn't like knitting it - but I am so used to mine that I do realise that this is part of the issue. But as for me it is not any better looking (worse IMHO) or easier for me I will stick to mine.
In this photo the one on the left (without purple) is the Fish Lips Heel and the one on the right (with the purple) is my heel that is in the pattern I have included here. I have picked up a stitch which is not in the pattern but will be included in advice re the heel. Don't know how clear the difference is- and remember this is just my opinion and for those who don't like it many love it. (note that this heel requires you to purchase the pattern, though it is only $1). The stitch marker is marking a hole that is in the pattern I am doing on this sock- it is not the heel

For those who don't like the Wrap and turn it is a good option. 
*Holding the yarn*
And the reason the sock with purple in it is so fat is that it has the ball inside. The other sock is being knitted on a different set of 2 circulars and can't go in sock as the ball unwinds from the outside only. The other socks being knitted with this is inside the sock and is much easier to deal with the yarn than the one out the sock. Having them both on the needles together really shows me how much easier it is to have the yarn inside.


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## darowil

pennycarp said:


> Hi Darowil,
> I have two question.s Is there any reason I can't use Judy's Magic Cast-On rather than the Turkish cast on? I know hers will give me two socks with each having the front of the sock on one needle and the sole of the socks on the other. Would this be a problem?
> My other question concerns the W & T stitches. Why are some of them double wrapped?
> Thanks!
> 
> Penny


No reason for not using Judy's Magic Cast on- but your tail may bein a different place. I have tried it a long time ago and couldn't get it to work well so moved to the figure of eight. The decided to the Turkish Cast on and thought it worked even better.

HEELS
the wraps help make the turns holeless and as you go back you have the wrap from moving in and then from going out hence the double ones. And it is working these together that pulls the heel into shape so that it fits over a real heel. Does that make sense. So the double wraps are on the second half of the heel only. As you work it is should make sense.


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## prismaticr

alidakyle said:


> I have read through the whole thing and it looks fascinating. Currently I am working on a pair of socks on 4dpns so I MUST finish those first. Your explanation about sizes using your hand as a measurement sounds very useful.
> 
> Is this workshop going to stay up on KP and will I be able to access it later when I am ready to start?
> 
> Many thanks for you work.


Yup, that tip on the hand measure is so cool....

As for the workshops, yes, when this one is concluded it will join all our others, cleaned up for easy reading and be closed to new comments. They stay in the workshop section for as long as KP remains on the internet.

See you on the knit side!


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> By George, I think I finally got it. I got so frustrated yesterday that I just had to walk away. And that was just knitting the first row after the cast on. Started again this morning and have about 6 rows done. I don't want to stop too long in fear of getting confused.
> 
> Fran


Now that you have the first few done you should be OK, it starts to get clearer after a short number of rows so well done for persevering.


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## darowil

Baba masha said:


> I had to give up on knitting the two socks at the same time, I couldn't cope with the yarns getting tangled so I undid one and am working on just one. I haven't knitted socks for over 50 years and never on circulars so I'm rather excited to be able to work on this project now. I shall return to knitting two socks simultaneously in the future.
> I'm very happy with my progress. Thank you so much Darowil.


Thats fine- and feel free to keep posting here with your one sock. Once you have sorted out how to knit one moving onto two at once will be easier.

As I said once you have enough length in the feet to put the yarn into it really does a big difference. Untangling the yarn after each needle was a pain (and was very slow) but no untangling needed once it is inside the sock. In fact I found it so frustating that if I hadn't promised to teach this workshop I would probably have given up. But now I anticipate that I will keep using it after the workshop which at one stage I thought I wouldn't. And it does feel strange at first knitting with stuffed knitting on the needles, but you get used to it and of course the stuffing gets smaller as you work.


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## darowil

alidakyle said:


> I have read through the whole thing and it looks fascinating. Currently I am working on a pair of socks on 4dpns so I MUST finish those first. Your explanation about sizes using your hand as a measurement sounds very useful.
> 
> Is this workshop going to stay up on KP and will I be able to access it later when I am ready to start?
> 
> Many thanks for you work.


Glad the info helped- and as Rachel has said it will remain- you just won't be able to ask questions through it once it is closed. But by then it is likely that your questions will have been asked and hopefully answered.


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## Monamo

Finally got started, but untangling the yarn is making me crazy... but I will persevere and learn this method of knitting socks. 

I have always loved doing them on 2 circulars, this is the first time I have ever attempted to do 2 at a time.

Knitting is about the challenges for me.


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## darowil

Lovehandles said:


> Well, now I have learned to cast on using the Turkish cast on and absolutely love it. I did use You Tube to enhance your instructions, though. This one is a keeper. Thank you so much. Not sure about the wraps just yet, I'm not there, but I do love this cast on.---Barbara


I had been doing the Figure 8 for ages but tried this recently and decided it was better.So its become my go to for most of my socks.


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## darowil

123wendy said:


> getting close to starting the heels.


OK- the kick I need to make me do what I ws going to do today (info on heels)- but may have procrastinated enough to have ended up not getting there. Though as a compressed the document I think some of th einfo should be there. And I will raid my last sock workshop as well as the heel is the same.
Well done on having got that far.


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## Baba masha

darowil said:


> Thats fine- and feel free to keep posting here with your one sock. Once you have sorted out how to knit one moving onto two at once will be easier.
> 
> As I said once you have enough length in the feet to put the yarn into it really does a big difference. Untangling the yarn after each needle was a pain (and was very slow) but no untangling needed once it is inside the sock. In fact I found it so frustating that if I hadn't promised to teach this workshop I would probably have given up. But now I anticipate that I will keep using it after the workshop which at one stage I thought I wouldn't. And it does feel strange at first knitting with stuffed knitting on the needles, but you get used to it and of course the stuffing gets smaller as you work.


Thank you so very much for that encouragement Darowil. You are amazing and I really appreciate your very kind words. I don't feel a failure anymore and I must say I am really excited to think that I will be able to conquer knitting socks after so many years.
The memories it has evoked has been amazing;I used to knit socks for my Dad with the guidance of my Mum when I was very young. (Mum & Dad passed away many years ago). What a journey this is for me.
Thank you Darowil and Bless you.


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## darowil

OK I will do some cutting and pasting from my first workshop- I will try to edit them but I do tend to forget to edit so some things may seem a bit odd and this will be why.
This heel is the same one as in my last workshop. So for those who want more information about the heel read all the following posts first.

HEEL
Ok I will post some photos that should make heels clearer- I was so sure I would need them that I took them a couple of weeks ago when I was knitting with bright yarn and each row a different colour so that the loops would show up well.


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## darowil

HEEL-different sizes 
If you are using 60 stitches for the heel simply work two less rows in each section of the heel- so you still work to the 12 stitches- start from row 3 so you begin with knit 29 (as you will be working with 30 sttiches).
if doing 68 stitches you will be working with 34 sttiches and you will need to add two rows to the beginning of the heel, knit 33, w&t; purl 32 W&t before row 1 in the pattern.


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## darowil

Some posts like this one will have quotes that you haven't seen as they have come from the previous workshop.

_Good Morning.

I have frogged twice now. Part of my problem is,when turning. It shows on the first row you do the wrap and turn at the end, slip the stitch to the left needle, then turn. Then for the second round, it says knit 30. Do you count the slipped stitch as the first knit, or knit 30 AFTER the slipped stitch? It makes a difference. I keep winding up always going to the last stitch on one row to keep the count, but then on the next the count will end the proper number of stitches BEFORE the end of the row. Obviously, I am doing something wrong!_

HEEL
The slipped stitch is NOT counted. knit 30 means knit 30 stitches. Each row will be one stitch shorter than the one before it. If you do the w&t as said when you turn the work the slipped stitch is already on the right needle, that stitch is not used again until you are doing the second half of the heel.
Simply do exactly as it is written
row 1 knit 31 stitches, (you will have 1 stitch left on the left needle) Bring the yarn forward (to the front of the work), slip the next stitch onto the right needle purlwise, return the yarn to the back of the work (you have now wrapped the slipped stitch in the working yarn), slip the stitch back to the left needle. Turn the work ready to begin the next row. This stitch that is on the left needle now stays on that needle and is not worked until you get back to that point in the second half of the sock. When you turn the work it is already on the right needle so you do not count it.

row 2 purl 30 you will have 1 stitch left on the left needle) Bring the yarn forward (to the front of the work), slip the next stitch onto the right needle purlwise, return the yarn to the back of the work (you have now wrapped the slipped stitch in the working yarn), slip the stitch back to the left needle. Turn the work ready to begin the next row. This stitch that is on the left needle now stays on that needle and is not worked until you get back to that point in the second half of the sock. When you turn the work it is already on the right needle so you do not count it.

row 3 knit 29 (you will have 2 stitches left on the left needle) Bring the yarn forward (to the front of the work), slip the next stitch onto the right needle purlwise, return the yarn to the back of the work (you have now wrapped the slipped stitch in the working yarn), slip the stitch back to the left needle. Turn the work ready to begin the next row. You now have 2 stitches on this needle that are not worked until the relevant part of the second half of the heel

And keep working this way as the pattern says.
Remember that for the first half of the heel every row is one stitch shorter than the one before, which gives that angled look to the rows in the photo above. You stop knitting the stitch BEFORE the last wrapped stitch, on one of those photos you see the first half dozen or so stitches each in a different colour lined up, each of these is the wrapped stitch from the rows before. Then when you get to the unwrapped section you can tell because there are a few stitches together of the same colour
On the second half of the heel each row is one stitch longer than the one before so that you start to form the pocket.


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## darowil

One of the reasons why I like to teach the wrap and turn heel (other than personal preference) is that it is useful for things other than heels as well. This pattern uses them for the wings, beak and tail of the penguin. I couldn't find a photo of the ones I have done so hopefully I can get the book cover on for you to see.
But the principle of short rows can be used in many other areas of knitting to. I have a jumper/sweater pattern which uses short row shaping (I haven't done it yet). The wraps aren't always used in short rows, but often are. The potato chip scarf which many have done here on KP uses short rows to give the twists to it. Many many uses once you grasp the idea of stopping in the middle of the row,


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## darowil

HEEL

It is important to pick up the wrap that you put round the stitch and not the loop between the two stitches. The wrap is the top one. Somtimes it can be hard to tell- and one way of fudging is to use the loop! Though I wouldn't recommend doing it too often on the one heel. There is a limit to how much fudge can be tolerated afterall.

I'm also sorry to say that I haven't managed to work out how to tink past a wrap and keep it! So I have found that fudge when possible as the only other feasible option seems to be to frog the whole heel! Any of the more experrienced wrap and turners found a way to avoid frogging the whole heel when near the end but a bit too wrong to get away with fudge?


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## darowil

HOLES AT HEEL JOINS
Often where you move from the heel to working in the round again you get holes at each end of the heel. This is easily addressed by picking up a stitch inside the stitch between the just worked heel stitches and the other set of stitches. Working into a stitch rather than the loop between the stitches works more effectively at closing up a hole. Then on the next round knit this stitch and the stitch before it together so that you return to your 64 stitches (32 heel sttiches). I pick the stitch up at the end of each of the last two rows of the heel and then when I turn to work the next row I just slip that stitch rather than work it (it makes a slight slope down to match up with the front of the leg stitches).
Another post on the same topic

You will have the loop that links the two stitches. Don't pick up this but look at the stich on the needle, then find the one under this and put the tip of your needle into this stitch and then work it as a knit or purl (depending on which row you are doing). I usually do this as the last step of the two final rows of the heel- 
so I would do

Row 39. Knit 30 slip the last stitch to the right needle pick up the two wraps return the slipped stitch to the left needle and knit all three together, *pick up stich as above* turn 
Row 40 *slip the picked up sttich* purl 31, slip the last stitch to the right needle pick up the two wraps return the slipped stitch to the left needle and purl all three together,*pick up a sttich as above* turn 
*first round of leg.
slip one knit to last two stitches on needle, k2tog, move to the next needle knit to end.
second round, k2 tog and then continue in ss until desired length.*
This can be done in different way- basically I try to form a slight slope hence the slipping .
But you can simply pick up and then knit it straight together on the very next rounds.
Or you can even on the first round after the heel simply pick one up and immediately knit the 2tog (and the other end of the needle as you get back there do the same thing.
And if you continue to have a problem you can pick up 2 and decrease them as you see fit (either k3 tog or k2 tog on two rounds.


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## darowil

So there you have my info on heels from my previous workshop which should be a great help. But I am still here to answer questions.

As in my other workshops when I finish I will include further information to encorage you to keep going with socks. Prismaticr has sent me some links for other short row heels which I will include then. I won't put them in now to avoid confusing issues. Thanks Rachel for sending them to me as Shirley asks rather than posting them yourself.


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> I finally got my needles and sat down last night to start. Frogged it twice and as it was late, gave up. Leaving on vacation so think this will have to wait until I return. May need to go back and learn to do 1 on 2 needles before tackling 2 at a time. Wanted to take this with me, but will revert back to the magic loop 2 at a time, for now. I will be back and conquer this process. Just can't get past the cast on.


what is your problem- do you normally do cuff down? Because if not you should be able to use your 2 circular knowledge and your two at a time on magic loop to work out how to do it. If your first time doing toe up you just have to get out of your mind any idea of a normal caston- it is nothing like one. And I need more idea of your problem if I might be able to help. HAve a lovely holiday anyway and unless you are away for a long time you will be able to join when you get back- or follow it even once it is closed.


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> I always do toe up, but just couldn't get it in my thick head how to work with 4 needle points, once I got the cast on done. I love this cast-on and use it all the time. Have never done even 1 sock on 2 needles, so I guess my problem is getting the needles straight. I searched for a utube video last night, but couldn't find one, except for one that the camera was way too close and I couldn't see the actual needles. I am a visual learner, but also very stubborn, so one way or another I will conquer it. Would have gotten them done on the plane and layovers, but will do a magic loop (thanks to you) this time and conquer this when I return in about a week.


Ok if you have the cast on done simply make sure you always use the tip that matches the tip the stitches you are working are on. On one needle you have the front of sock 1 and then sock two. On the other needle you have the back of sock 2 and then sock one. And the fronts always stay on the same needle and the backs on the same needle. This is why I suggested two different needles so it really easy to see which needle you should be working with. NEVER EVER move the front to the needle with the back on or vice versa. If you do have the same needles then check every time before you start each section that you are using only one needle.
I would show you on my work but I have it packed to take to our KP catchup this morning and I need to leave in about 5 1/2 hours so I should go and get some sleep rather than unpack what i have organised. (my other needles are clearly different to knit with but not on a photo)

Again for everyone- always keep the same stitches on the same needle. If you remember this and that the next stitch is the one to the left of the thread you shouldn't really have problems once you get going. 
It is easy to tell where to work next- only one of the 4 sections will have the yarn in position to knit from (when it is on the next needle it is still to the left of the yarn - visualise it as a circle of work which it soon will be.

Have a lovely holiday grannyfabulousI guess you will be on your way by the time I get back on to KP again. we'll still be here when you get back for sure as I see you are away for about a week so see you then.

If you do have the same needle and have nail polish or something similar try a little buit near the tips of one pair- or something that will make them clearly different to the other needles. I haven't tried this but I don't see why it won't work.


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## darowil

diane647 said:


> I am having trouble getting started. I did the turkish cast on no problem, but I am confused as how to start the second needle cast on. I know how to make socks it's just the getting started that is my problem. Any more suggestions?


Once you have the stitches on the needle you knit into the stitches on one needle (for both socks) and the turn it and work on the other side for both socks. 
The sttiches you are working on rest on the cables out the way. Ignore the needle that has the back stitches on it while you knit the front and then ifnore the needle with the front sttiches on it while doing the back. And I just said never move them from one needle to the other- the stitches stay onn the same needle from the time you cast them on to the time you cast them off.

Is this what you are asking? If not psot agian and I will try and explain more when I am back- in about 12 hours I would think.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> Is it correct that after you finish the round the needles won't be twisted? In the middle of the round they are like a circle. I assume that is the way it is. I am increasing on both needles until I have 32 stitches on each needle correct? A little bit ago, it clicked. I watched a few you tube videos. Hope I am doing it right!
> 
> Thanks for the KAL!


correct- if you look at the first photo posted (posted by Designer) the socks are ready to start the next round- both needles can be straightened out. 
And correct about the sttich count as well 32 on each needle so a total of 64 per sock.
Sound slike you are doing it right but you can always post a photo if you aren't sure.


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## kaixixang

I'll have to stay with the Worsted weight...or lighter colored string (for minimum product size) for the Toe-Up. I just tried to work with a dark section of a multi-colored sock-weight...didn't work.

I will be catching up quickly as I have at least 5 rolls of light colored worsted.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> This may sound like a silly question, but how do you tell which needle is the front and which one is the back? My metal needle was on top when I cast on and bamboo on the bottom if that makes a difference. I am probably thinking about this too much!


Front needle is the one with the stitches for the front and the back with the one for the back- and until you get to the heel it doesn't matter. You could also call them needle 1 and 2 if you want. (which may have been a better way for me to put it thinking about it now).
As long as you only ever use the bamboo tip to knit from the bamboo tip and the metal for the metal you won't muddle them up. As soon as you try to use a metal tip with a bamboo tip you are in strife and have to undo the section you worked this way.
So wrap the stitches round the needle and work as I say- once you have the stitches in position the first time it won't matter what you call them or were they are as long as bamboo to bamboo and metal to metal. They will simply go in the right place. (if any of you are working with two needle the same you will need to follow the needles around each time to make sure that the tip you are about to knit with is connected to the tip you going to knit from).


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Just really mad at myself. I am away from home visiting grandchildren. I thought that I would work on the workshop socks. I went to my LYS at home to purchase another size 1 24 inch circular. I get to my daughters and discover that I left the needle at home. Well to keep sane with 4 grandchildren and keep busy while they are in school I am making toe up from the old workshop. I do have my original size one and it is 40 inches. I am doing two at a time only using magic loop. As soon as I return home I will start socks on two circulars. I want to learn to do this as some say easier than magic loop. I need to try them both and decide for myself. I will be behind everyone but will try to catch up.


You'll soon catch up- just as well for you there are less workshops now gives you more chaance to catch up. It's a good idea to try all the methods-until you give them a good try you can't decide and you may find one you prefer. I've once tried 2 at a time on magic loop. The 2 circulars are easier in my opinion becuase it is much easier to work out where you are in the knitting and harder to go the wrong way. But I hated the tangling yarn and now I've solved that problem I might be OK. The biggest disadvatage of this over magic loop is that you need 2 needles and I always have numerous needles in use.


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## Bubba24

My socks so far. A little disappointed they don't match, but still happy with them. Should be up to the heel by this weekend.
Fran


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> My socks so far. A little disappointed they don't match, but still happy with them. Should be up to the heel by this weekend.
> Fran


They look good- lovely to see the first pair on the way. Lots of people don't want them matching so go with the flow! They are clearly a pair so that is the important thing -not that everyone even bothers with that these days. Well had friends who got married about 30 years ago and I was keen to see if he wore matching socks as he always wore odd socks. He had two blue socks but not a pair. So it's not a new thing.


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## merae

These are mine so far. Kind of squarish, oh well. The marker denotes the first side. I make sure I always start there. Looks like a bra! They aren't attached, really! LOL!


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## darowil

merae said:


> These are mine so far. Kind of squarish, oh well. The marker denotes the first side. I make sure I always start there. Looks like a bra! They aren't attached, really! LOL!


Bra for a teenager but it does doesn't it? But they look fine- you will see they settle down as you get more width and length to the feet.


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## jmai5421

darowil said:


> You'll soon catch up- just as well for you there are less workshops now gives you more chaance to catch up. It's a good idea to try all the methods-until you give them a good try you can't decide and you may find one you prefer. I've once tried 2 at a time on magic loop. The 2 circulars are easier in my opinion becuase it is much easier to work out where you are in the knitting and harder to go the wrong way. But I hated the tangling yarn and now I've solved that problem I might be OK. The biggest disadvatage of this over magic loop is that you need 2 needles and I always have numerous needles in use.


I marked the front of the first sock with a locking marker. That helps me tell where I am, what is the front side and which sock is the beginning. I use a center pull and place the yarn inside the sock when I get far enough to hold the ball/cake of yarn. That helps to keep the yarn from tangling to much.


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## darowil

There is nothing wrong with making with marking the front but there is no need to do so. It mattters not at all which side you do the heel on- once you start the first heel you determine then which is front and back-and then it is clear.
As to which sock is the beginning when you have both needles able to be straightened out then you know that you have done the same number of rows on both socks. And it matters not one iota whether the heel is done on the first or second set of stitches. (when matching patterns I start the heel on whichever side the colour change occurs).
In fact when I am knitting one at a time and matching up my socks I worry about matching up the lines of pattern rather than the number of rows. Which will be more obvious to those looking at the sock- a couple more rounds on one sock or a couple of rows of a colour that doesn't appear on the first sock but does on the second? And the same for the cuff- I begin at the same point in the pattern rather than the exact number of rows. (THis is in fact an issue that I would find difficult if I was working on a pair of socks rather than 2 totally different socks). Occasionally a ball won't be quite a proper match and you have to accept that they won't match. ANd some don't have an obvious repeat either.
And almost everyone has one foot smaller than the other so it is not as though they will be identical on the feet anyway.

Note that this applies to those socks with self patterning yarn you are matching up. If you are doing a design of your own into the sock and have it on the top of the sock then you do count the rows- but simply finish at an easily recognisable spot-usually the end of a pattern repeat unless very long. And when you are doing a short row heel and intend to add a patten for the leg it is advisable to do around a dozen rows plain above the heel before starting the pattern at the back (commence the front immediately at the pattern row due to do next). Make sure you begin the back at the same row as the front so the pattern matches up unless you want an orginal look (and incidentally it is of course much easier to be doing the same row on both sides)


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## Lovehandles

This is really so much fun, however, I'm such a slow knitter I'm afraid you'll be closing the class before I get to the heels. I've attempted to attach what I've done so far. Thank you so much for this class.--Barbara


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## darowil

Misty Mama said:


> I need to drop out..... Confusing and going to have cataract surgery on Monday March 3. Will wait for the next class... Signed up for Gypseycreams panda bear class.... Just too much on my plate. Good luck


You can always come back when your eyes have settled. Even if the workshop has clsoed it is still avail be to be read and the downloads are all accessable. Th eonly diffeerence is you won't have others working at the same time and you won't beable to post questions.However many questions will have been answered and I am always availbe by PM.
Hope the siurgery goes well for you. ALmost always it is an amazing improvemnet so you should be seeing better within a few days from now.


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## darowil

Lovehandles said:


> This is really so much fun, however, I'm such a slow knitter I'm afraid you'll be closing the class before I get to the heels. I've attempted to attach what I've done so far. Thank you so much for this class.--Barbara


As long as we know people are still around we won't close the workshop. Once a date is talked about you will be warned and I will ask if anyone is still out there working as I don't to leave you in the middle if it can be avoided. But you are progressing well enough for me to don't think we will closed by the time you get there anyway so just keep plodding on. And I must admit that while I have 4 socks on 2 circulars I haven't yet fisnihed any of them! All them I am on the legs of but I am making slow progress as well. in my case I am trying to do too many things all at once.
Great colours BTW


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> For some reason, my socks look big-I reread the pattern and I think I messed up-I increased every row until I reached the amount of stitches. That isn't right is is? I am so mad at myself! I am going to rip them out and start all over again!


Increasing on every row won't make them bigger, it will simply make a short pointed toe which may well still be fine becuase the socks stretch to fit the foot anyway. The main reason I do every two rows (many patterns have every row for a few and thren every 2) is that doing a m1 above the last m1 is much harder as there is no real loop to pick up. And personally I prefer the less pointed toe. Often though the toes do look funny until they have some foot to put them into context so if you haven't yet frogged I would keep going. They will be wearable and will make no difference to how you work them from here. The try one doen according to the pattern and decide whohc you think is best.
But there are many options to doing toes and none is right or wrong. The toes like the heels can be done in different ways- and it is worth while trying different options out to determine your personnal favourite (or you may lke to change ways. This is assuming of course that you join the large family of sock addicts here on KP. And don't restrict yourself to only this technique either. Try others and decide for yourself which you like best.)


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## darowil

pennycarp said:


> Well, I think I understand what I'm doing.  As long as I use a row counter to help me remember which rows are the increase rows, I think I'll be o.k. I'll sure be glad, though, when the sock gets big enough to put the yarn ball in. I'm having trouble keeping my yarn untangled. I know, in theory, if I turn the needles a certain way each time, the yarn won't get tangled, but I haven't figured it out yet. Oh, well....
> 
> Penny


I know, and some times I would be sure I had the yarn in the right place to avoid tangling, get onto he second sock onbthat side and discover the yarn tangled. To remember the suggestion of putting it in the sock has made such a difference, though it is awkward at first with the bulk it is easier than the yarn tangling. 
And if you get a few of the increases wrong it really doesnt matter. if it is too hard for you to tell do you think anyone else will notice? If you go wrong too often it will look odd but a few doesn't matter. And this I know becuase I usually get some wrong. It's not unusual for one side to get increases on the last row and not the other becuase it has already reached the right number of sttiches. On th etimes I start with an even number of sttiches and end with an odd number on both sides I increase at the beginning or end of both socks- this makes it more even by having one increase on each end of the sock even though on different sides.
Socks really are flexible, you are normally working with fine yarn so a row or two really doesn't any obvious difference overall so don't get too hung up about them all of you.


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## darowil

diane647 said:


> You are a fabulous quick learner. I love your socks. I can't seem to get started. I get all mixed up. I will keep trying.


Anything I can help with? Or is it just a metter of persevering? I'm sure you're not the only one out there doing the same thing. But if no one speaks up I don't know what might help people. I have put in all the things I can think of but questions often prompt me to think of another way of putting it or adding something I hadn't thought of.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> I understand what you are saying about the many different ways to do the toes and heels. I was looking at the 2 of them that I had done (toes) and didn't like them so frogged them and started over. Almost changed the yarn too!
> Thanks for all your help along the way!


Hope you hadn't gone too far with the feet and thatyou are happy withthe new ones.


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## Bubba24

My socks so far. Somehow messed up on the heels. Not sure what I did wrong. This is the best picture I could get .


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## Designer1234

Wow -- things are going great here! good to see the socks. Once again Darowil has increased our sock knowledge!! Designer


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> My socks so far. Somehow messed up on the heels. Not sure what I did wrong. This is the best picture I could get .


What is the problem with the heels? All I can see is slightly looser at the point where you join back up into the round- a common problem which as one of my socks showed I still do at times. The extra stitch I suggested later helps there. Others add 2 extra stitches at this point and decrease on the first two rounds after returning to working in the round.
Or was there another problem which I couldn't see?


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> I think that the problem is it is too loose. There also seems to be "holes" in the heels. Next time will be better. I didn't think I could do this sock workshop. It looked too confusing, but once I got started it all fell into place. On the whole I am happy with them. I am always too hard on myself. Thank you for the encouragement.


Good to hear that you achieved something you thought would be too hard. Nice to know I helped this, but it is so satisfying for you to achieve something you thought would be too hard.
Just try pulling the yarn slightly more firmly at the end of each short row so the stiches nudge a little closer to each other.


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## Baba masha

I'M SO HAPPY.
I have just got past the heel on my sock, I didn't think I could do it.
Bless you Darowil, I would NEVER have achieved this without your guidance, encouragement and wonderful instructions.
I love Knitting Paradise and all the wonderful people involved in it. May it last forever.


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## Fidra

Definitely happy to get beyond the heel! Found I tangled the yarn more with the wrap and turns. A few holes to fix later but otherwise good to have the pair ready at the same time and use all of the yarn for a longer leg.


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## BarbB

Happy now! Done with the increasing after frogging yesterday!


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## darowil

Baba masha said:


> I'M SO HAPPY.
> I have just got past the heel on my sock, I didn't think I could do it.
> Bless you Darowil, I would NEVER have achieved this without your guidance, encouragement and wonderful instructions.
> I love Knitting Paradise and all the wonderful people involved in it. May it last forever.


Well done- it looks good. And now you are on the home run- the hard parts are all done.


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> When I get to the cuff do I decrease or just continue with the same amt of stitches?


Same number of stitches- the rib pulls it in enough to give some extra support to keep the socks up. Also the calf gets a bit bigger as you go up (but not enough to require any change to the stitch count-unless you do longer socks than these are).


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## darowil

With the heels reache don a couple and one almst at the cuff it won't be long until the parade of th esocks will be opened. And Let me tell you I don't have a finsihed sock to add to the parade! I have 4 almost finished but no mates! Just wanted to get past the heels so I could have all I needed for the workshop.


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## Fidra

Well, here they are, warts and all. Holes at heel patched, they do fit very well though. The cuff looks a bit odd in the striped yarn. Darowil, Thanks for hosting this workshop, I learned a lot and will definitely make these again.


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## Bubba24

My socks are done. I had a few problems and they are not perfect, but I really enjoyed learning something new. The thought of using 2 circulars making 2 socks at the same time was a little scary at times. But I stayed with it and I am very happy with the finished socks.
Thank you Darowil for teaching this class. All your hints were great. And your encouragement kept me on track. I hope you plan on doing more workshops. Thank you again,
Fran


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## darowil

Fidra said:


> Well, here they are, warts and all. Holes at heel patched, they do fit very well though. The cuff looks a bit odd in the striped yarn. Darowil, Thanks for hosting this workshop, I learned a lot and will definitely make these again.


If this was a race you would win- beating even me. But it isn't a race of course. But well done. Sometimes the variagated yarns don't look that good on the ribbed cuffs, but the ribbing is needed so just need to put up with it- unless you want to do it solid. And I think if you are going to do that that it looks best if you do the toes and heels solid as well- and you don't know untill it is too late to do this. Can do an afterthought heel and decide later how you want to do it so can match the cuff and heel.


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> Just got back from vacation and found my new second size 1 needle that I bought especially for this class. My socks on the magic loop will have to become a WIP until I finish this workshop. I hope the finish WIP and UFO workshop stays open for awhile. I keep making more WIP'S and ufo's.


WIPs and UFOs grow well I find. Need to decide on my March UFO to finish (set myself the goal of doing one UFO a month). Wonder if I will end with less by the end of the year or not even if I stick to getting one finished?


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## darowil

Bubba24 said:


> My socks are done. I had a few problems and they are not perfect, but I really enjoyed learning something new. The thought of using 2 circulars making 2 socks at the same time was a little scary at times. But I stayed with it and I am very happy with the finished socks.
> Thank you Darowil for teaching this class. All your hints were great. And your encouragement kept me on track. I hope you plan on doing more workshops. Thank you again,
> Fran


Well done Fran- silver for you in a close race (that wasn't actually a race at all). They look really good- you are more aware of the imperfections than anyone else and they look fine from here.
This was I think my 5th workshop- no more planned yet but between me and Designer it is likely that something else will come up at some time.
And the fact they don't match isn't clear unless you look closely which I have done becuase you mentioned it earlier. They are very clearly a pair.


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## darowil

Fidra said:


> That's a good idea, will try that with another pair as I have similar yarn to use. Thanks again for the pattern and instructions.


While you may be tempted to use yarn other than sock yarn for these small parts don't so as the toe and heel are the two areas that get the most wear and therefore the most important to use sock yarn on.


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## Fidra

darowil said:


> While you may be tempted to use yarn other than sock yarn for these small parts don't so as the toe and heel are the two areas that get the most wear and therefore the most important to use sock yarn on.


Thanks, I think I have some black and some dark brown sock yarn, will definitely use one of those for the next pair.


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## Baba masha

My finished socks. I used "Nina" Sock yarn. It advised size 2.0 or 3.0 needles. I used 3.0. I wish I used 2.0 as the socks are a little on the large size. However, I am very pleased with my socks and a good lesson learned for needle size for my next pair.
Thank you so very much Darowil. A wonderful KAL. I loved it.


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## sjbowers

Congratulations on your perseverance! I also had fits with the cast on and finally changed to Judy's magic cast on after watching a video. (maybe that's cheating, not following rules) At that point I decided I better master one sock before attempting two. At this point I wish I did have two on the needles and will definitely try it on the next pair. It's encouraging to see so many pretty socks show up here!



Dot700 said:


> .if I ever needed convincing that sticking to it pays off, this is it. I have tried to cast one at least 5 times and I have finally got it and am now progressing on my socks toward the heel.


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## Fidra

Baba masha said:


> My finished socks. I used "Nina" Sock yarn. It advised size 2.0 or 3.0 needles. I used 3.0. I wish I used 2.0 as the socks are a little on the large size. However, I am very pleased with my socks and a good lesson learned for needle size for my next pair.
> Thank you so very much Darowil. A wonderful KAL. I loved it.


Your socks look great, super job on the heels, they look very neat. I used the smaller needle and was very pleased with the results, the ones I made for this workshop fit much better than ones I made previously on larger needles.


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## Designer1234

*"THE PARADE IS NOW OPEN!"* please post your socks at the following link as soon as they are finished so that they will be available for the kp members to see. - By the way we also want your pictures in the workshops as well as the Parade! Designer1234

*here is the link to the Parade

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-243450-1.html*

I have taken the liberty to put in the socks that are finished to now. I hope I get the names correct.!


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## darowil

Judylovesoscar said:


> I have only just had a chance to check out this class. I am madly reading through the wonderful information. My mission for the year is to knit a pair of socks. I have the yarn and will try to catch up. Thankyou for all the info so far.


Welcome and don't worry about starting late- we will remain open for a while yet and even once we have closed the workshop remains accessible (the only difference is that you won't be able to ask me questions through here).


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## darowil

Baba masha said:


> My finished socks. I used "Nina" Sock yarn. It advised size 2.0 or 3.0 needles. I used 3.0. I wish I used 2.0 as the socks are a little on the large size. However, I am very pleased with my socks and a good lesson learned for needle size for my next pair.
> Thank you so very much Darowil. A wonderful KAL. I loved it.


Well done- they look good and I see that Shirley has added then to the parade which she opened over night to me.
I get almost as much delight in seeing people learn a new techniques- especially when it meand they have learnt to make socks as well.


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## darowil

sjbowers said:


> Congratulations on your perseverance! I also had fits with the cast on and finally changed to Judy's magic cast on after watching a video. (maybe that's cheating, not following rules) At that point I decided I better master one sock before attempting two. At this point I wish I did have two on the needles and will definitely try it on the next pair. It's encouraging to see so many pretty socks show up here!


People are welcome to try whatevet they like- the only rule then is that need help they don't ask on the workshop- I am always happy to help by PM if I can.
This is an example oh how we are all different I haven't liked Judy's magic cast on when I have tried it. Should probably try it again. Loved the figure of eight intil I tried the Turksih and worked out how to do it. Now I think it will become my go to toe, bit easier and looks neater.


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## Baba masha

Fidra said:


> Your socks look great, super job on the heels, they look very neat. I used the smaller needle and was very pleased with the results, the ones I made for this workshop fit much better than ones I made previously on larger needles.


Thank you so much Fidra for your kind and encouraging words. I will make another pair using smaller needles and also work the two socks together, I had to give up on that this time as I had never done toe up socks before and never on circular needles so it was all new for me and I just couldn't manage the two together, so I will try again, persevere and won't be beaten lol. 
I must say I loved this workshop and learned so much.


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## darowil

Received a PM asking the following questions. I am putting here so others can see the answer as well as others may be having the same issue.

I keep losing my loops after I slide the first set down on the cable to try and do the second set of loops... am Ii supposed to knit the first set of loops before moving them down onto the cable before I wrap the needles again for my second set of loops? I looked at you tube to figure out the turkish cast on.. I have always done cuff down socks before.. and I have one set of loops knitted and on both needles at the minute... now what? thanks.

TURKISH CAST ON
No you only wrap the stitches then slide them down. Maybe if you try slipping the yarn between the needles so the cable helps hold it in place while you do the second set of loops they won't unravel (which I assume is your problem). Remember that this tuck is not a loop to knit. Only once you have both sets of loops on the needles do you start the knitting. And then you knit the top loops of both socks before you do the bottom stitches.
Remember that except for the heel you always work the two socks on one needle before moving on to the other needle and that the stitches NEVER go onto the other needle to the one which they start on. 
Let me know if this still doesn't work.
If you have the stitches on and knitted you should have half the stitches for each sock on one needle and the other half on the other needle. Check with the photo under commence toes if you are unsure of the set up you have.
From there you simply follow the instructions. Begin knitting as per instructions increasing in each alternate round as per the pattern.


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## darowil

retirednelda said:


> ok, I tried that and ended up with all of it on one cable... maybe it would help me if you labeled one needle a and b tips and the second needle c and d tips... could we try the instructions doing that? I am more of learner through observation , I am sorry..... I did get the loops to stay on this time


Do you have two totally different needles? If you look at my photo one needle is bamboo and the other metal. Never are the stitches that start on the bamboo on the metal. Even the loops, those that are at the top of the loop always stay on the needle they are looped over (or under for the bottom needle).
So bamboo tip to bamboo tip and metal tip to metal tip ALWAYS. If I finf myself doing metal to bamboo I immediatelly know that I am wrong (doesn't mean of course that occasionally I find myslef having done just that! )
It will take me a while to rewrite it all out as you asked so I will come to back to it.


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## darowil

retirednelda said:


> Thanks, in the meantime I have learned how to do several new cast ons trying to learn how to do the 2 sock method... so all is not lost in any case  thanks for your help!


Normally can find something gained from any situation if just look for it. I am here now to look at the photos and see how I can wirite it out more clearly for you. I have been looking at Youtube but can't find it on 2 circulars for 2 socks! So you will need to make do with me.


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## darowil

retirednelda said:


> ok, I tried that and ended up with all of it on one cable... maybe it would help me if you labeled one needle a and b tips and the second needle c and d tips... could we try the instructions doing that? I am more of learner through observation , I am sorry..... I did get the loops to stay on this time


So here are the promised instructions.

I hope this helps you sort it out- and that I have managed to get all the 1 and 2s in the right place! I've reread it numerous times so they should be right.
Use one tip (tip 1) of each needle to loop the stitches over (see the photo for step 1 on page 1). Put the yarn between the 2 cables as I previously suggested .You then slid these loops onto the two cables and add another set of loops onto tip 1.

Slide the bottom needle (needle 2) along so that this needle has 2 sets of stitches on the cable, leaving the stitches on tip1 of needle 1. Using tip 2 on needle 1 knit the stitches. (sock 1). Slide the stitches onto the cable from tip 2. Still using needle 1 slide the next set of stitches (sock 2) onto tip 1 needle 1, using tip 2 needle 1 knit these stitches (remembering to take the extra half loop off first). Slid the stitches onto the cable for needle 1. Turn the work.
It will seem very loose but dont worry it sorts itself out as you work the next section.

This next step is worked only with needle 2 and you are working from tip 2 to tip 1 unlike the first section. Slide the first set of stitches (sock 2) onto tip 2, using tip 1 knit these stitches. Slide the stitches onto the cable. Then slide the loops of sock 1 from the cable onto to tip 2. Using tip 1 knit these stitches and slide them onto the cable for needle 2. Turn.

You now work these half rounds all from needle 1 and tip 1 onto tip 2 needle 1. Slide the stitches for sock 1 onto tip 1 so you can work them and knit onto tip 2. Then repeat for sock 2. Turn.

These half rounds are worked from needle 2 and tip 2 onto tip 1 needle 2. Slide the stitches for sock 2 onto tip 2 so they can be worked and knit onto tip 1. Repeat for sock 1. Turn.

And keep working like this remembering the increases as per pattern.

Always work from needle 1 to needle 1 and from needle 2 to needle 2. If you dont have different needles you may want to mark one needle tips 1 and 2 with something like nail polish or a permanent marker (making sure it dries first so it doesnt mark the sock or rub off immediately).

Remember you are only knitting the top or bottom of one sock at a time, and these stitches need to on a tip. The other 3 sections are not in use and so they sit on their relevant cable out of the way. You knit the stitches on the tip, slide them out of the way and slide the next set onto a tip so they can be worked. After every two halves you will need to turn the work to get the next set of stitches into position.

It is easy to tell which to knit to next no matter where you leave the work. Only one set of stitches will have the working yarn in position to knit. The yarn will always be in the stitch you last knitted and you knit the stitch to its left. Even when it looks like the end of a row as in the last photo on page 1, remember it is a circle and the stitch to the left of this one is the first stitch on the other needle  but not necessarily what you knit next.
You knit sock 1, sock 2 turn
Sock 2 ,sock 1 turn
Sock 1 and so on.


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## darowil

Lovehandles said:


> I'm confused. Working on the heel wraps now and creating a mess. The knit side difections make sense. But where are the diections when purling, are they the same? Also, does the heel consist of all 34 stitches? Thank you.


Basically it is the same but I have changed the wording so it might it clearer 
w&t wrap and turn. Move the yarn to the right side of the work, slip the next stitch onto the right needle purlwise, return the yarn to the back of the work (you have now wrapped the slipped stitch in the working yarn), slip the stitch back to the left needle. Turn the work ready to begin the next row
Let me know if this is better and I can have it changed in the pattern for others coming later.

How many stitches are you working with? If 64 as per pattern you should be working 32 for the heel.
This cut and past from page 2 answers your question I believe if you are working with 68. 
HEEL-different sizes 
If you are using 60 stitches for the heel simply work two less rows in each section of the heel- so you still work to the 12 stitches- start from row 3 so you begin with knit 29 (as you will be working with 30 sttiches).
if doing 68 stitches you will be working with 34 stitches and you will need to add two rows to the beginning of the heel, knit 33, w&t; purl 32 W&t before row 1 in the pattern. 
And of course that will mean two more going back up.


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> Darowil, Lois (Grannyfabulous4)back from my vacation, laundry done and rested, so decided to try the socks again. WOO HOO, mission accomplished!! I am off and running. Just have the increases up to 30 stitches, but couldn't even begin those before. I figured out what I was doing wrong the first time around. Your directions are so good and explanation you gave further down the site, really made it click with me. Thanks so much for another way to knit socks two at a time!!!! I have made 6 pairs so far and still have to have quiet when I turn the heels. That is a hard process for me. I started a pair on Magic Loop for the plane and have those ready to turn the heel, so will work on the 2 needles, then turn all 4 heels, and maybe the repetition will make it easier for me. Thank you SO MUCH for this wonderful class. It is so much fun to have options! Lois


Thank you for the comments Lois- I'm glad it 's all clear and that you are now well on the way to getting these on the way. It shouldn't be too hard now as you have the hang of it by now-at least until you face the heel. Do you do the same heel each time? It may be worth trying different heels. Some people hate the wrap and turns that I use but personally out of all those I have tried I fing it hte easiest to do. So finding a different heel may be worth it for you.

I do suggest that people try hard to work out the wrap and turns as it a useful skill to have, but if they continues to find it hard then by all means try another heel. In fact I would recommend trying other heels rather than assuming that the one I teach you is the one you must stick to.

And for those struggling I'm not sure if it will help you to know that I have to work out what I have done wrong with one set. I have somehow managed to fail to take my own advie about always using the same needle to keep the socks on and can't find a needle tip and yarn together. Sorted it once last night and then went wrong again so figured I'd better until I have time today to sort it out. So picked up the other set and continued on them. As I have not worked on pairs to make it easy for you to see the difference and couldn't find the yarn to do the mates when I started the second pair for photos I will soon have 4 different socks with no mates! Seems to rather defeat the idea of doing two at once doesn't it?


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## prismaticr

grannyfabulous4 said:


> I frogged mine last night and will be starting over today!!!Guess I should have waited another day after getting home, to start them. I was so excited and not paying attention and instead of wrapping 12 times, I wrapped 24!!! LOL. Decided to knit and while and see how it looked. I got about 2 inches done and stuck my foot in them, but didn't like what I saw, so made like a frog and ripped them! Today will start again. Probably won't make the parade, but they will get done since they are for my only granddaughter!


First, Parade stays open for ever... so you go and finish those socks and post them when ever you are done. No rush there at all.....

Second, that seemed to be a great learning experiment... learned the cast on and the increases and I wish I had thought of that when I first began knitting socks...

BUT it was in fact Darowils first sock class that got me on track. Now my biggest problem is finding time to knit and knit when my elbow will behave....

Have fun all!


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> I frogged mine last night and will be starting over today!!!Guess I should have waited another day after getting home, to start them. I was so excited and not paying attention and instead of wrapping 12 times, I wrapped 24!!! LOL. Decided to knit and while and see how it looked. I got about 2 inches done and stuck my foot in them, but didn't like what I saw, so made like a frog and ripped them! Today will start again. Probably won't make the parade, but they will get done since they are for my only granddaughter!


At least you know what you sre doing for them now! Always look on the bright side of life as Monty Python said (or should I saw sung?). So keep going- spme people do knit toes on a similar width to what you tried but like you I don't like it (think you would probably want to increase every three rows or you would have a very short toe).

To answer your question in your next post I don't have a planned workshop! Not sure what I could do next. 
I get a real thrill to know that I have encouraged people to knit socks who have never been game to try. Taught a number here in Adelaide as well. Also taught a lady here to do them toe up on magic loop who has been knitting cuff down on dpns for almost 80 years I would say (autocorrect doesn't dpns- tries to make it dons. First time I thought it was my typing but after I watched what I did and found the same thing I realised it wasn't me for once!).
And now as it is 4am I might head back to bed and see if I get a few more hours sleep. Did get a front leg of a panda done in Gypseycreams workshop as well as starting another sock- time I finished some I think!


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## jmai5421

grannyfabulous4 said:


> Darowil, I am taking the Panda Class too, and keep switching back and forth between socks and panda. Work on the socks when it is dark, can't see the black then. Hope to get Panda done this afternoon and restart the socks tonight. Get some rest, girl! I have been having trouble sleeping since coming home. Maybe too many projects on the needles and I am having nightmares about finishing them and moving to the next batch of yarn!


I understand and am doing the same thing. I need to start the socks again. I am going to try to find a you tube video for the Turkish cast on and using two circulars so I can see it done. Then maybe I won't have so many do overs. I want to at least get past the toe and hopefully past the heel by the 22nd. I am going to an all day craft, quilting, knitting group at a local church. They provide breakfast rolls and lunch for a small fee. They also have coffee/tea. You bring any other beverage. I want several projects to the point of mindless knitting, no counting.


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## retirednelda

Thank you Darowil for your great workshop, but I just can`t keep everything straight. I did manage to get a couple of rows done after 2 days and many starts and rereading the instructions but I keep getting mixed up...even tho I have 2 totally different needles. so its back to double points for me, I will just knit 2 at a time. But now I will be doing toe ups cause I love the cast on you taught me


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I understand and am doing the same thing. I need to start the socks again. I am going to try to find a you tube video for the Turkish cast on and using two circulars so I can see it done. Then maybe I won't have so many do overs. I want to at least get past the toe and hopefully past the heel by the 22nd. I am going to an all day craft, quilting, knitting group at a local church. They provide breakfast rolls and lunch for a small fee. They also have coffee/tea. You bring any other beverage. I want several projects to the point of mindless knitting, no counting.


If you find one for two socks on 2 circulars can you PM me it? I haven't been able to find A YouTube for them. Single socks yes but not 2 at once. (not even sure I found them on 2 circulars actually!)
You could just go back to the figure of eight- its almost identical but instead of figure of eight round the needles you simply wrap the two in one loop rather than the double loop. And no need to do the second half of the first round in the back of the loop. Simply do the loops of the first one, slide them out of the way until you want them then do the loops for the second one. Work the first set of stitches on sock two, then the first lot of sock 1. Turn and the second section of sock one then sock two.


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## darowil

retirednelda said:


> Thank you Darowil for your great workshop, but I just can`t keep everything straight. I did manage to get a couple of rows done after 2 days and many starts and rereading the instructions but I keep getting mixed up...even tho I have 2 totally different needles. so its back to double points for me, I will just knit 2 at a time. But now I will be doing toe ups cause I love the cast on you taught me


Its a shame you can't get the hang of it but somtimes things just don't click and knitting is meant to be relaxing. So while i do work hard to work out something new I don't perserve unless I really want to do it- and it is the only way to achieve mt goal.
The book I learnt the Turkish cast on from is actually for dpns and they use a dpn and a circular for the cast on. The circular is just used to hold the bottom of the loop until they are knitted for the first time.


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## grannyfabulous4

retirednelda said:


> Thank you Darowil for your great workshop, but I just can`t keep everything straight. I did manage to get a couple of rows done after 2 days and many starts and rereading the instructions but I keep getting mixed up...even tho I have 2 totally different needles. so its back to double points for me, I will just knit 2 at a time. But now I will be doing toe ups cause I love the cast on you taught me


I couldn't get the hang of it either in the beginning, but just left it for a week, since I was traveling, and when I got home, I took right off, except for casting on too many stitches! Don't give up. Leave it a few days, and try again.


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## BarbB

Heels are done as of last night and I am working on the legs! Woo hoo!


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## Lovehandles

Hello, I thought I'd post a pix of my progress. These may look familiar because I posted them before. However, I thought the sox were too large so I ripped them out all the way to the toe. Since I didn't want to take a chance of ripping again, I went ahead and made the FLH, which I've done before. BUT, I also did a practice piece using the W&T just to be sure I could do it. The two heels look very familiar to me (via pictures) and I wanted to see for myself. I like the W&T and will use it the next time I make socks. Here's what I've learned in this class and am very grateful: The Turkish cast on, which is awesome, doing two at a time socks, which is really fun and the W&T process. I have a question: Since I reduced my # of stitches to 26 (one side), how many stitches should I leave in the center of the W&T heel (using sock yarn)? Thank you again for this class.


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## kaixixang

I'd go with 9 for the heel and 18 for the toe...but the toe depends on FLK method or other style for that part.

I hope it will be ok for me to post some baby socks in the parade...I will be doing both methods cuff and toe, in two separate pattern styles. The colorway for both should show exactly what I stated above, give or take 2-3 stitches.


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## darowil

Lovehandles said:


> Hello, I thought I'd post a pix of my progress. These may look familiar because I posted them before. However, I thought the sox were too large so I ripped them out all the way to the toe. Since I didn't want to take a chance of ripping again, I went ahead and made the FLH, which I've done before. BUT, I also did a practice piece using the W&T just to be sure I could do it. The two heels look very familiar to me (via pictures) and I wanted to see for myself. I like the W&T and will use it the next time I make socks. Here's what I've learned in this class and am very grateful: The Turkish cast on, which is awesome, doing two at a time socks, which is really fun and the W&T process. I have a question: Since I reduced my # of stitches to 26 (one side), how many stitches should I leave in the center of the W&T heel (using sock yarn)? Thank you again for this class.


After trying the FLH I too went back to the w&t.
I would probably go to 10 for the heel (and would have down 10 loops-thus 20 sttiches for the heel but it isn't too important unless you get much smaller). If this doesn't seem right it can always be changed next time. But socks are fairly flexible becuase they do stretch so it doesn't matter if things aren't perfect.
If you are using sock yarn and so few stitches (unless you are knitting for a small foot) I wonder if your tension/gauge is too loose. WHile it is tempting to make them looser as quicker to knit it is not recommended. They fit and wear better if you work at a firmer tension/gauge.
The caston can be used for other things as well- any tube that has a closed end can be done with this style of caston and so remove the need to sew it (and it looks better).
Glad you found the workshop useful;.
The socks look good- both heels look very neat (your FLH looks better than mine I think).
The advantage of pulling out a piece of work you have made a lot of progress on is tha tyou get twice as much knitting from the ball. Hoever I can't say that I've really been able to convince myself of that! I have so much yarn I don't need to use it twice.


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## prismaticr

Since several folks have mentioned the FLK heel, and I had not done it before, I went ahead and learned it... low and behold, except for one minor detail (Which by the way made all the difference) I had actually been doing this technique already....

Observations I learned from this experience...
Darowil taught me the W&T heel, which I actually thought was fairly easy... Had to learn to keep track of the wraps, made the usual learning mistakes, but overall my socks came out totally wearable.. and very comfy. Or so I thought, until I learned the Twin Stitch method....

There is a great article on the internet showing 5 different short row methods, how to do them and the authors thoughts... you can find it starting here

After reading through that, I personally found the Twin Stitches, used in the FLK heel, and the FLK heel method to actually lay flatter in my sock, less ridged in the wear, and (sorry Darowil) easier to keep track of...

Now that all said, first YOU make a personal choice for yourself... I did a small sock/heel sample of each, Second if you are new to socking, trust Darowil, her instructions are impeccable! and third, try something new... the only thing you loose is a bit of frustration, but you GAIN a ton of knitting knowledge that it totally irreplaceable.


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## darowil

prismaticr said:


> Now that all said, first YOU make a personal choice for yourself... I did a small sock/heel sample of each, Second if you are new to socking, trust Darowil, her instructions are impeccable! and third, try something new... the only thing you loose is a bit of frustration, but you GAIN a ton of knitting knowledge that it totally irreplaceable.


Yes- I don't want my workshops and patterns to be seen as the only way to do things. I hope they will be used as a basis on which to develop your own way. Whether this be by deciding what you like best and doing it always or changing around each time. Go ahead and experiment, tweak the pattern as much or as little as you want-but do not assume that it is the only or best way. It's the way that works for me for my take out project but each knitter should find a way that suits them best.
And very rarely will you find that what you learn for one project won't be useful for others.
For example you can now make a bag with no seams needed by using the Turkish cast on for the bottom and knitting it in the round. 
Or for those of you who haven't done short rows you can now approach a pattern with short rows with confidence.
Castons too tight in some situations? you have a stretchy cast-on. But I suggest experimenting with others in this case- maybe one won't flair so much. I haven't bothered checking because socks remain stretched on the leg so the flair only shows when not being worn. But for a neck you may not like it.
So once you finish this pair go ahead and experiment to your hearts content- both on more socks and other items being brave enough to branch out further.


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## darowil

kaixixang said:


> I'd go with 9 for the heel and 18 for the toe...but the toe depends on FLK method or other style for that part.
> 
> I hope it will be ok for me to post some baby socks in the parade...I will be doing both methods cuff and toe, in two separate pattern styles. The colorway for both should show exactly what I stated above, give or take 2-3 stitches.


I missed you comment on the socks on the parade- as long as they are done using this method than of course they can go on the parade. The parades shows what students have done as a result of the workshop not to show how well they can follow a pattern.


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## marilyn skinner

Sorry to bother you but do I increase at the toe to 64 stitches per sock or each side of sock. Thank you for doing this I'm amazed that I have learnt it
I should add he has size 14 feet and should I do them a bit bigger Thanks again. Marilyn


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## BarbB

I am not Darowil, but I will answer so you can keep on going 64 per sock 32 on each needle.

I can't help you with the 2nd question!


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## kaixixang

marilyn skinner said:


> Sorry to bother you but do I increase at the toe to 64 stitches per sock or each side of sock. Thank you for doing this I'm amazed that I have learnt it
> I should add he has size 14 feet and should I do them a bit bigger Thanks again. Marilyn


Size 13/14 feet need worsted weight 84 total on 2.75-3.25mm sized needles. This will be 42 a side...work up to 42 a side for Toe up/Cast On 42 a side - 84 total for Cuff down. Add 12 for each smaller weight yarn/thread for range of knitting needles specified.

I knit ALL socks with 2 circulars...so at least my parade entries will qualify.


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## darowil

marilyn skinner said:


> Sorry to bother you but do I increase at the toe to 64 stitches per sock or each side of sock. Thank you for doing this I'm amazed that I have learnt it
> I should add he has size 14 feet and should I do them a bit bigger Thanks again. Marilyn


You will need more- checked up in a book which says 72 stitches total for a 13/14 mens size. Would probably cast on toal of 28 sttiches (14 for each needle) and take the heel to 14. The good thing is that you can try them on earlier with toe up and tell how they fit the feet. They do say you can try on before you finsihe the toe, but I have found on the few times I have tried this that it doesn't really work and you need soem length in the foot first. But you don't need most of a sock knited first.


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## springdh

I have finished the toe - love the seam of the Turkish cast-on. I have tried one other toe up cast-on and neither one produced the round toe look that I like. Is there a way to produce a round rather than a square/rectangle pointed looking toe? Thank you!


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## Patches39

Well I have got the toe done, had to do over a few times, but on to the hell in a bit. Lol :-D love all that I am learning, thanks for the class, you really are a good teacher. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BarbB

Patches39, they look nice! I had to rip my first toe out too! I enjoyed doing the heel-better than having to pick up stitches! 
I agree, Darowil is a great teacher!


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## prismaticr

springdh said:


> I have finished the toe - love the seam of the Turkish cast-on. I have tried one other toe up cast-on and neither one produced the round toe look that I like. Is there a way to produce a round rather than a square/rectangle pointed looking toe? Thank you!


Havent tried it myself yet, but I have been instructed that a rounder tow will be achieved by increases on EVERY row until desired number of stitches for toe are achieved.

Please note, doing a M1, will be extremely difficult doing increases on every row, so the suggestion was to do an M1 on one row, and KFB on next... or all KFB....

Try it and let us know!


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## jmai5421

I'm sorry. I had to give up. Even with two different circulars and two different sizes I made messes. Had to frog multiple times. I like the yarn and didn't want to ruin it with so many frog goings I went back to Darowil's first sock workshop. The socks are doing great. I am still on the toe but will be ready for the foot to take to a Saturday all day craft a long. Our whole Monday knitting group is going. To make progress that I don't have to frog or think I am going to have several easy projects. Socks with heel turned and socks with toe finished. I am working on 4 pair magic loop! Will post on the appropriate parade. Sorry about this one but decided I didn't need the stress.


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## darowil

springdh said:


> I have finished the toe - love the seam of the Turkish cast-on. I have tried one other toe up cast-on and neither one produced the round toe look that I like. Is there a way to produce a round rather than a square/rectangle pointed looking toe? Thank you!


Casting on less stitches will shorten the part across the toes. And you can change the frequency of increases- often cuff down socks have decrease every two rows for a while and then every row until the desired number of stitches is reached. This can be done as well- but the m1 is very difficult to do every row. But you can use kfb instead and this can be done on every row. Basically you can do whatever you like with this basic pattern- and htat is what I want. I want this to be a base from you go onto other things.

Do try them on before deciding you don't like how they look though. Once they are on the foot things do look different as they do take on the shape of the foot to a fair degree. The toe by itself will look funny it needs some foot length to get it into perspective. 
But feet are all different and different shapes do suit different feet better. I have a book that gives different types of toes for different feet but it is for cuff down socks. (The Sock Knitters Workshop by Ewa Jostes and Stephanie van der Linden).
Socks a la carte 2 has a number of toes and heels for toe up socks as well as a number of various leg and cuff patterns. The idea of these is too mix and match each section to get what you want int he sock. But this does not recommend which suit the different types of heel or toes. They also have Socks a la carte 1 for cuff down and another for colour work in socks. (authors are Jonelle Raffino and Katherine Cade).
Ravelry has probably hudreds of free sock patterns which ypu also look at.
Any toe up heel can easily be adapted for two circulars. Extremely easily for magic loop patterns as the stiches are simply on two circulars instead of the needle and cable, so divide the same way (normally half on each needle). And for dpns you have half on each needle again- usually needle 3 and 1 on one needle and 2 on the other. If 5 dpns used with the stitches on 4 needles than 4 and 1 on one needle and 2 and 3 on th either. Note this is only a guide as each pattern may be different. 
Normally you have the top stiches on one needle and the bottom stitches ) which will become the heel on the other needle.


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## darowil

Patches39 said:


> Well I have got the toe done, had to do over a few times, but on to the hell in a bit. Lol :-D love all that I am learning, thanks for the class, you really are a good teacher. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


The next bit shouln't be hard patches as you have the hang of the two circulars so it is straight knitting till the heel. good that you have managed to get here and get started.
And thanks for the compliments.


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> I'm sorry. I had to give up. Even with two different circulars and two different sizes I made messes. Had to frog multiple times. I like the yarn and didn't want to ruin it with so many frog goings I went back to Darowil's first sock workshop. The socks are doing great. I am still on the toe but will be ready for the foot to take to a Saturday all day craft a long. Our whole Monday knitting group is going. To make progress that I don't have to frog or think I am going to have several easy projects. Socks with heel turned and socks with toe finished. I am working on 4 pair magic loop! Will post on the appropriate parade. Sorry about this one but decided I didn't need the stress.


Unlike you to need to stop. But there is nothing wrong with that. I'll let you into a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone I won't be using this method again either, I prefer one at a time on magic loop. But worth learning for me- I can now teach others how to do it and some love this technique. Need to work out the cast on for a hat as I am teaching it next weekend. (why do I agree to teach things that I haven't done before? I'm sure though if I worked the socks out I can manage to work out the basic caston as the rest will be the same principles as here and magic loop hats- which I can do).


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## darowil

prismaticr said:


> Havent tried it myself yet, but I have been instructed that a rounder tow will be achieved by increases on EVERY row until desired number of stitches for toe are achieved.
> 
> Please note, doing a M1, will be extremely difficult doing increases on every row, so the suggestion was to do an M1 on one row, and KFB on next... or all KFB....
> 
> Try it and let us know!


That would be right as well as less stitches cast on (maybe 8 loops and thus total of 16 stitches). If I was doing every row I would do all kfb. Some people do kfb all the time. I like the holes that m1 leaves when kniting into the front of the stitch (when doing feminine socks) and like to do my plain socks all the same so that when I return to it after a break as often happens I know what to do. Sttich count and how did the m1s are easy to see from the first sock but the others are harder to tell so this way I don't need to try to work it out. But it has taken me a lot of socks to decide on this way.


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## prismaticr

darowil said:


> Unlike you to need to stop. But there is nothing wrong with that. I'll let you into a little secret if you promise not to tell anyone I won't be using this method again either, I prefer one at a time on magic loop. But worth learning for me- I can now teach others how to do it and some love this technique. Need to work out the cast on for a hat as I am teaching it next weekend. (why do I agree to teach things that I haven't done before? I'm sure though if I worked the socks out I can manage to work out the basic caston as the rest will be the same principles as here and magic loop hats- which I can do).


SOoooo. for someone who claims to not have used this method before, you taught it quite well. As for me I prefer the magic loop method for many things. the 2 cirs just seem to get tangled up. HOWEVER, I strive to learn new things all the time and so trying it atleast once makes me a better teacher right???

anyway, I for one am glad you teach Darowil. If not for you, i never would have made one sock at all, let alone the matching pair. now I carry a small sock project in a zippy bag all the time... makes it easy to have something to pass the time, and with the basic method in my head, I dont need to count or measure anything... and sorry but I think the FLK heel will be my new go to. The twin stitches are soooo easy to see and do and not have to count and no wraps to find and sorry, i like them much better all around.. of and the fact that they lay flatter inside, means I dont feel them when i am wearing my hand knit socks...

THANKS YOU!


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## jmai5421

prismaticr said:


> SOoooo. for someone who claims to not have used this method before, you taught it quite well. As for me I prefer the magic loop method for many things. the 2 cirs just seem to get tangled up. HOWEVER, I strive to learn new things all the time and so trying it atleast once makes me a better teacher right???
> 
> anyway, I for one am glad you teach Darowil. If not for you, i never would have made one sock at all, let alone the matching pair. now I carry a small sock project in a zippy bag all the time... makes it easy to have something to pass the time, and with the basic method in my head, I dont need to count or measure anything... and sorry but I think the FLK heel will be my new go to. The twin stitches are soooo easy to see and do and not have to count and no wraps to find and sorry, i like them much better all around.. of and the fact that they lay flatter inside, means I dont feel them when i am wearing my hand knit socks...
> 
> THANKS YOU!


I am glad she teaches too. Without her magic loop workshop I would still be using DPN'S. ML is so easy. I actually do two at a time. As soon as the toe gets far enough along I put the ball of yarn inside. You have to use center pull. With the small balls of yarn inside the sock it doesn't really get tangled. I also usually put a locking marker on the front side of the first sock. That way I know when I am starting a new round for increases etc.
I have done a pair with the FLK heel and really like the ease of the twin stitch and the way it feels. I also can take my sock projects with me.
I am glad I tried two circulars. Thank you for teaching. You are a great teacher, so knowledgable and helpful. I am going back to the ML socks. Love the pattern and the fit.


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## jmai5421

BarbB said:


> Where is the magic loop workshop?


Darowil taught it and then the socks. It is closed but all the information is still there. I am sure she would answer any questions you have that haven't already been answered on the workshop. Just PM her.
I don't know the exact link. Hopefully somebody does. But if you go to the top and click on Home and scroll done to workshops with Designer; then scroll down the workshops to the one on magic loop with Darowil. All the previous workshops are there for anyone to try.


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## darowil

prismaticr said:


> SOoooo. for someone who claims to not have used this method before, you taught it quite well. As for me I prefer the magic loop method for many things. the 2 cirs just seem to get tangled up. HOWEVER, I strive to learn new things all the time and so trying it atleast once makes me a better teacher right???
> 
> anyway, I for one am glad you teach Darowil. If not for you, i never would have made one sock at all, let alone the matching pair. now I carry a small sock project in a zippy bag all the time... makes it easy to have something to pass the time, and with the basic method in my head, I dont need to count or measure anything... and sorry but I think the FLK heel will be my new go to. The twin stitches are soooo easy to see and do and not have to count and no wraps to find and sorry, i like them much better all around.. of and the fact that they lay flatter inside, means I dont feel them when i am wearing my hand knit socks...
> 
> THANKS YOU!


I taught myslef so I could teach this workshop and I haven't finished a pair yet! . I have two lots on the go by the computer, but neither are pairs sp they showed clearer for this workshop. I haven't yet though finished any of them so I don't have two finsihed unmatched pairs. I did have them all done to the heel. The first set I learnt on the second set I photographed. I've been too busy with other knitting to get them finished.
I'm not bothered that you have changed the heel. But I am so thrilled that you carry one with you all the time.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> Darowil, why do you do 1 at a time on magic loop and not 2?


And this follows on from my last post. One reason why I don't do 2 at a time on magic loop is that I always have one of the go when I leave home and juggling two socks and two balls of yarn as I wander down the street just won't won't work.

I also mainly have 100gm balls and can't be bothered rewinding them!

I did try it a couple of years ago but found the juggling of the yarns and making sure I always worked the correct sock too much hassle. (I think the 2 circulars was less confusing though it is a long time since I tried magic loop so maybe it will be worth trying it again, or stick to 2 circulars). My memory is that 2 circulars is easier to tell where you are because the same half of the sock always sits on the same needle, whereas the magic loop keeps moving.

To my mind the biggest advantage is not getting onto the second sock- the dreaded Second Sock Syndrome (SSS). And as I don't too often suffer from SSS it doesn't bother me. Note I said too often- I won't say never as I do have a few odd ones lying around.

Maybe now that I have worked out how to carry the yarnn in the sock most of the time I might try it again for socks that I am doing at home.

And one at a time means the satisfaction of finishing one all that much sooner.

I was bought up knitting one sleeve at a time for example so I think it just a part of the way I way I was taught to think of knitting. But then I was not taught to knit in the round at all so I do change i. I still prefer to knit one sleeve (with 2 lots of yarn I spend so much time untangling them that any advantage in time is quickly lost).


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> I found it-I would love to learn the two at a time on magic loop-I am finishing up this KAL 2 at a time on 2 circs-yeah-on the ribbing! I am tired of looking at this green yarn-but I will have a finished pair of socks! So happy!


Looking forward to seeing them finished.


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## darowil

While I think of it as well as having been blocked so needing to find this each time I am going away tomorrow for 5 days (my SIL is turning 60 so we are heading up to help her celebrate). I will have my iPad and I'm sure they will have wifi so I should be able to check in. This is the reason I have been so tied up with other knitting as I have been knitting a Kaffe Fassett vest for her. And even though I have only done the blocks on the front it takes time (and only the front is finished, hoping to ge tit fisnihed up there!).


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## darowil

jmai5421 said:


> The vest sound beautiful. Would love to see it finished. Kaffe Fassett yarn is gorgeous.


Used a local yarn. Here is the front (doing the back in black with just a couple of rows of the light green around the level of the armhole) As well as the edges of the ribbing int he same colour aas in the front.
I did do the two parts for the front at the same time- figured it wasn't like I would have any more yarn to get tangled than before. Normally I do them separately as may have been expected from my previous psoting about tending to do things one at a time.


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## kaixixang

Dianeks2 said:


> I want to join in too, but maybe this is more for the main discussion area. I have knitted (and currently have a pair in progress) 2-at-a-time on 2 circs. My problem is that my ankles and calves are very large while my feet are normal sized. How do you figure out where and how much to increase for the leg portion?


Depending on leg and foot size you may want to consider a wide rib pattern that can transfer around the leg/ankle and across the top of foot. I'm currently in compression leg treatments/stockings...so I do understand the problem.

This is one reason I prefer 2 knit, 2 purl (or a combination around or up for either stitch). Don't worry TOO much about reducing the number of stitches...but allow for 1/4 to 1/2 inch less than you'd expect.

If you are doing a toe-up pattern...consider Liat Gat's ruffle bind off... only you would add extra stitches before doing 2 inches of final rib ruffle on cuff. Cast off as normal, without removing the extra stitches.


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> Darowil" H E L P!!! I think I goofed somewhere. I have the heel done on the first sock finally, but, the start of the next sock is in the middle of the needle. I had to frog the heel the first time and must have picked up the wrong needle?? Is there any way to correct this, or do I need to move it to another set of needles and work one at a time from here on out? Am I making sense??


When you started the heels you should have had both heels on the same needle and they should both have remained on this needle all the time (one being worked on one being ignored). I agree that you seem to have picked up the wrong needle when you frogged.
You may need to remove the finished heel from needles and replace it correctly. You will need to make sure that the unworked heel is on the left tip (assuming you are working right handed) and then place the finished heel on the right tip. Don't forget that the yarn will be in the middle when you start the heel but the stitches for the heel will be on the left tip. The first row is worked with the yarn from the other needle- the rest of the heel is as you know worked flat so the yarn will not be on the other needle after that until you finish the second heel.


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## darowil

marilyn skinner said:


> I have a problem the socks are really wide and they actually fit the size 14 boys feet. Didn't think I'd knitted loosely but do you think that's what's wrong. This yarn I bought is really thin compared to the other I've used. Help. Any suggestions. ??😁😤


What weight yarn do you have? If you have heavier than a fingering wieght they will be bigger. Have you remembered to use small needles?


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## darowil

Dianeks2 said:


> I want to join in too, but maybe this is more for the main discussion area. I have knitted (and currently have a pair in progress) 2-at-a-time on 2 circs. My problem is that my ankles and calves are very large while my feet are normal sized. How do you figure out where and how much to increase for the leg portion?


The suggestion of rib is good.
Where to increase is hard to say. Either before or after the heel depending on where the swelling starts. If your heel is normal size I would increase on the first round after the heels as you say your ankles are swollen as well. Whether you increase all around on one row or gradually depends on how the swelling is spread. Remember though that most socks are stretchy so the size is not essential- they will adjust to your feet to some extent. Slightly firm is the best option as too loose they will not stay up.
As to how much to increase depends on how much bigger your ankles and legs are. I would measure your feet and legs and see how much bigger they are. Work out the gauge on your socks (per inch don't worry about the 4 inches) and for ever extra inch castor an amount a but less than this to allow for the stretch. It would be best actually to do this stretched on your feet so the gauge is accurate (unstretched will have you adding too many extra stitches).

I would also suggest moving one off and working only on one so that if it doesn't work you only have one leg wrong that needs frogging. They will be a degree of trial and error unfortunately.
Make sure you keep track of your changes so you can repeat them if they work (and if they don't work keep the details along with what was wrong so you don't repeat it).


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> Guess I need to read the ENTIRE instructions for the first sock before I yell for help! I had neglected to knit back across the heel. Amazing, when I did that, I was right where I should be. Thank you for your patience! I am about half done with the second heel now, so will be sailing along great. I really like this way of doing socks. It certainly helps to put the skein inside the socks too!


Amazing what happens when you read the instructions isn't it? Something I have discovered for myself many times. And yes you will soon be on the home run with the legs.


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## BarbB

I finally finished my 1st pair of toe up, 2 at a time on circulars! I put them on the back burner because I started another pair! I love doing socks this way Thank you Darowil for doing this workshop!


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## darowil

Patches39 said:


> Ok doing heel, frogged already but will get it. I really love doing the sock this way, :-D fun. Thanks teacher. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Most people start by needing to frog the heels as w&ts are new to so many people. But useful for many things other than heels so worth persevering with. Glad you are having fun with them.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> I finally finished my 1st pair of toe up, 2 at a time on circulars! I put them on the back burner because I started another pair! I love doing socks this way Thank you Darowil for doing this workshop!


Well done- and on going straight on to a new pair. What a lovely bright colour they are. The orginal pair look good, lovely neat heels.
I must find my way to the parade and check it out then leave it open like this one is so I can easilly find it. Our yours in the parade?


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## darowil

KathywithaK said:


> I started my socks last night and love it! I have done dpns and magic loop on 40" but 2 circs is a method I hadn't attempted yet.
> 
> I notice a line of slashes at the toe //////////// like a twisted knit stitch and wondered why there is no mention of knitting through the back loops on the second half of the toe cast-on. I tried it on a sample and the /////// was gone by knitting through the back loop on the second needle. However, even with the ///////////// it still looks nice. I'll call it a design element.
> 
> I am still increasing the toes, and it is going well with two different needles (I'm using fixed cable Nova cubic and Knitpics harmony in US1). Since 40" is all I have, am considering ordering shorter cable needles such as 24".
> 
> I love making socks and this new method has enthused me. Thanks!


The Figure of Eight cast on needs to have the second set of stitches worked through the back of the loop but the Turkish Cast on doesn't so don't know why yours are twisted. This is what happens to the stitches in the Figure of Eight cast on and dealt with by knitting into the back of the stitches as you have done. The difference in the two is that the Turksih is simply looped round both needles at once and the Figure of Eight looped round the needles one at a time so it looks an 8 round the needles. Then other than working through the back of the stitches for the second half they are worked the same. (If anyone wants to try it this is the cast on I used for the magic loop socks in my Toe up socks on Magic l Loop workshop here on KP-accessed through the link under my posts).

Glad you are enjoying it. And once you have finished this pair there is no reason wny you can't adjust other socks patterns. In the next week I am going to practise a normal cast on using two needles so I can post this later for those who then want to try cuff down socks.


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## darowil

BarbB said:


> Darowil, Did I read that correct-you are going to do top down on 2 circs? I will be anxious to try that too! I do like the way we do the gusset and heel on toe up-so much easier than picking up stitches I think! That is my opinion!


I'm actually needing to work out how to do a normal caston for beanies. So figured while I was at it I would work out how to cast on for 2 and throw that in. But I can very easilly swap my pattern around to a cuff down. The great thing with the short row heels (of which mine is only one of many) is that can be used exactly as is for either cuff down or toe-up.
Without a lot of knowledge my plain socks can be converted. It is simply a case of working backwards in the pattern and casting on instead of off and increasing instead of decreasing. The instead of the Turksih caston Kitchener street. Many other patterns with short row heels can also be converted easilly, but those with patterns in them may not work as the pattern will come out upside down (and I guess going the other way as well). Sometimes this won't matter but other times it will just not suit.
So for example go to the end of the pattern and read cast off so you cast on 64 (which you need to remember is the number of sttiches that you finsihed your toe with. If of course you added extra sttiches for the leg as one person was doing you cast on this number).


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## KathywithaK

darowil said:


> The Figure of Eight cast on needs to have the second set of stitches worked through the back of the loop but the Turkish Cast on doesn't so don't know why yours are twisted. This is what happens to the stitches in the Figure of Eight cast on and dealt with by knitting into the back of the stitches as you have done. The difference in the two is that the Turksih is simply looped round both needles at once and the Figure of Eight looped round the needles one at a time so it looks an 8 round the needles. Then other than working through the back of the stitches for the second half they are worked the same. (If anyone wants to try it this is the cast on I used for the magic loop socks in my Toe up socks on Magic l Loop workshop here on KP-accessed through the link under my posts).
> 
> Glad you are enjoying it. And once you have finished this pair there is no reason wny you can't adjust other socks patterns. In the next week I am going to practise a normal cast on using two needles so I can post this later for those who then want to try cuff down socks.


I studied the directions more carefully, and I think I wrapped from the bottom slipknot around the bottom rather than up the back and over the top needle. That would explain why the tutorials turned out without doing the backloop knit on second half. Thanks again. I'm almost done with the toes now.


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## darowil

KathywithaK said:


> I studied the directions more carefully, and I think I wrapped from the bottom slipknot around the bottom rather than up the back and over the top needle. That would explain why the tutorials turned out without doing the backloop knit on second half. Thanks again. I'm almost done with the toes now.


That would explain it. The foot is easy as it is just straight knit.


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## BarbB

These are my second and 3 pair that I am doing since I took this workshop! The heels are done on the striped pair and I just started the other ones!


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## darowil

marilyn skinner said:


> I'm using Lion Brand Sockease. On 2.75 needles which it calls for. Sorry it took so long to answer. I now have tendinitis in my wrists so won't be knitting for a while plus the puppy chewed the knitting up so I'll start again as soon aaa I can. Thank you for your help


How frustrating not to be able to knit- hope your wrists recover soon. And then to need to start from scratch thanks to the puppy. They seem to love chewing- I guess like human babies who fortunately don't seem to think knitting warrents chewing- pulling off needles maybe admittedly. Come back whe you can. Even if we have closed the workshop you can still read it all and PM me if strick an unaddressed issue.


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## grannyfabulous4

Socks are done! They are for my GD. Posted on the "parade" also.


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## darowil

grannyfabulous4 said:


> Socks are done! They are for my GD. Posted on the "parade" also.


Wonderful- lovely colour for females. The problem with things that are too small is they don't grow into them. But she should like these especially as she choos the colour. Yhnaks for posting them in the parade as well.


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## grannyfabulous4

Darowil, she is 10 and her feet are bigger than mine! Hope she doesn't grow too much more in the feet. Thank you so much for another way to knit 2 at a time. Now I can have just that many more socks on the needles. Right now I have 3 and going to start another on 2 needles. You and Designer are so good and I know everyone who took your class appreciates both of you very much. Can't wait to see what you come up with next!


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## jmai5421

I finished my first pair of socks. I really can't put them in the parade since I only started on two cables. I got them so mixed up and tangled that I continued with the magic loop. I also ended up doing them one at a time. The same with my second pair. I am part way up the foot part. The same thing happened. I am going to give it a rest and try again with two circulars.


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## Designer1234

*This workshop is now closed. Thanks to Darowil for teaching another wonderful sock class*.

It will remain 'locked' and in our section archives so that it may be used as a reference permanently -- by all KP members. Thanks to you all for doing such a great job.

Designer1234


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## Designer1234

*Here is the link to the Parade of socks on double circulars.

Please post your socks if you haven't done so. Thanks,. Designer1234

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-243450-1.html#4952481*


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## prismaticr

Topic is now closed. For additional information not found on these pages. please try and private message (pm) the listed teacher.

Thank you and happy knitting/crocheting!


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