# Affordable Care Act is Working and so is Obamacare!



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


I am glad for you & your state. It certainly doesn't seem to be working for me.


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## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

I'm very happy it is working for you. It is nor working so well for me, so I can not partake of your enthusiasm.


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## String Queen (Apr 9, 2012)

Have you had a paid claim yet?

Just wondering

Robin


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## stirfry (Nov 3, 2011)

I am so happy that it is working for you. For so many it is a disaster. The state hospital where we go to several different doctors is not taking any of the insurance from Obamacare. They say the reimbursements are too low. Doesn't say much for a state hospital.


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## Ranger (Apr 26, 2012)

String Queen said:


> Have you had a paid claim yet?
> 
> Just wondering
> 
> Robin


Me too


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## JeanJ (Jul 12, 2011)

Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


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## Willie 1919 (Jun 11, 2013)

It's working great for me, happy, happy!


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

blessedinMO said:


> I'm very happy it is working for you. It is nor working so well for me, so I can not partake of your enthusiasm.


So can you explain how it is not working for you, so we can understand.


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


The online system really sucked, but I did get it taken care of over the phone. The Ohio did finally participate in the federal plan at the last minute. I would have preferred to get one of the better plans, I got the silver plan, but was afraid to apply for it because I was afraid I would loose my credit. I'm just happy I'm covered. I checked with my doctors to see if they took the plan I signed up for. I don't understand why anyone would take a plan that their doctor would not accept. This seems to be the fault of the insured, not the plan. I had a hard time, but I supported it from the beginning. I was left without insurance when my cobra ran out in July.


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## String Queen (Apr 9, 2012)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


I guess since this is in the Chit Chat section it can be about anything. I really pick and choose, usually passing up most of this section. My reading time is limited so I wAnt to make the best use of my time. Now... Back to my sewing.

Robin


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

String Queen said:


> Have you had a paid claim yet?
> 
> Just wondering
> 
> Robin


Yes, I have had more than one and had no problem. I selected Preferred One as my carrier and I have all the same doctors and medical facilities I had before.


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## robszombie (Jan 13, 2014)

absolutely awful for ne and my family:-( I'm a supporter of Obama but this while insurance thing is really depressing my husband and I can't afford it even tho it claims we can. we live very frugaly but that's life I guess! oh well I am glad it is working for some


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## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

I live in Missouri which is one of the states that opted out of Medicaid because it is a predominately Republican State. The only insurance the participates have to choose from is Aetna or Blue Cross Blue Shield because those two are the ones the hospitals in our area will accept. The State of Missouri also decided to determine which medical supply company could supply items like diabetic meters and other supplies to the residents. This also includes supplies to the Medicare recipients. I don't think they should have the right to choose which equipment supplier we can obtain supplies from.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

At this time 23 states are not participating in federal medicaid expansion in their states. You may want to check and see what your state is doing. It would be nice to know as NJG asked what problems you were having and what doctors are not participating and why. Someone referred to a state hospital not receiving enough reimbursement so they are not providing care. Is that for medicare, medicaid or private insurance that that is happening. Also, do you know who runs the hospital? Is it VA?


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Where will we go when the Dr. Offices will not accept Medicare pts. due to small re-imbursments? In large cities maybe not a problem but rural areas are stuck or drive many miles. Our plan requires us to budget $750 a month for premiums, drug plan, co-pays, deductibles and travel. That is including the premium taken out of SS. What may be left over will go in the fund for the next year and so on as prices are just going to go up as projected 15-30% a year. Because we have worked hard and acquired assets we are penalized. Would be cheaper if we were not a so called middle class family. I see everyday young people losing that dream because they do not want to work for those who don't. Don't not can't , they are different. We give and then give some more to help others but that will change when taxes go up and we lose that option. Well, as soap box is so high, I will now try to climb down carefully so as to not break a leg.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

K2P2 knitter said:


> I live in Missouri which is one of the states that opted out of Medicaid because it is a predominately Republican State. The only insurance the participates have to choose from is Aetna or Blue Cross Blue Shield because those two are the ones the hospitals in our area will accept. The State of Missouri also decided to determine which medical supply company could supply items like diabetic meters and other supplies to the residents. This also includes supplies to the Medicare recipients. I don't think they should have the right to choose which equipment supplier we can obtain supplies from.


It is too bad the state Republicans are doing this to their own people. This is their fault not the ACA. If they would have opted to participate you and others in your state would not be having these problems. This fall you should get out and vote for the people in Missouri who will help the people and not the party. That's what we elect them to do. I sure hope things will improve for you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Where will we go when the Dr. Offices will not accept Medicare pts. due to small re-imbursments? In large cities maybe not a problem but rural areas are stuck or drive many miles. Our plan requires us to budget $750 a month for premiums, drug plan, co-pays, deductibles and travel. That is including the premium taken out of SS. What may be left over will go in the fund for the next year and so on as prices are just going to go up as projected 15-30% a year. Because we have worked hard and acquired assets we are penalized. Would be cheaper if we were not a so called middle class family. I see everyday young people losing that dream because they do not want to work for those who don't. Don't not can't , they are different. We give and then give some more to help others but that will change when taxes go up and we lose that option. Well, as soap box is so high, I will now try to climb down carefully so as to not break a leg.


Thank the Republicans in your state for not accepting Medicaid expansion from the federal government. The states that are hurting are Republican controlled and not working for you and the citizens of Montana but the GOP. The only way things will change is for the people to go to the polls in November and vote out the ones that are up for reelection. You deserve better than that and I hope you get it.

Montana: Republicans in the statehouse in April 2013 rejected plans to opt into the Medicaid expansion, which could have added another 70,000 state residents to the program.


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## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

I didn't vote for these people in the first place. The unfortunate thing is some of the citizens in this state vote Republican because their parents have voted that way all their life what they fail to realize is voting for someone based just on their political party is almost like throwing their vote away. I vote for the person running for office not because of the party they belong to.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


Yup, and people need to really be more thoughtful about any issues that MAY pop up with Obamacare or the ACA.

If there is an issue, one has to ask WHY that's occurring? Is it an issue that would've been better addressed by having a public option? If so, remember that the only reason we don't have a public option, is because the GOP would not allow it.

Therefore it is not "Obamacare" that is causing the problem, it's the GOP watered down version of Obamacare/ACA that's the problem.... and can be fixed if a public option is allowed.

In the meantime, it IS helping millions of people.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


JeanJ just a hint...you are free to skip, ignore or not pay any further attention to any posts you don't like. This is the chit chat section where just about everything outside of knitting can be discussed. There are those of us who have no one to discuss these things with & enjoy the lively conversation some subjects provoke. I am glad this section exists.
Have a great day!


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Montana Gramma said:


> Where will we go when the Dr. Offices will not accept Medicare pts. due to small re-imbursments? ... ①
> 
> ...Because we have worked hard and acquired assets we are penalized. Would be cheaper if we were not a so called middle class family. ②


① I think we need to stop having discussions based on RW scare tactics that don't often come to fruition.

However, if we are to fix such issues we have to realize WHY those issues exist.

②To put it simply, the competition caused by the public option would've solved likely 90% if not ALL of those issues you're concerned about.

This is what some of us mean about people who cut off their nose to spite their face.

If you weren't supporting the GOP watering down ACA, many of these issues would've been addressed.

Accept the fact that the GOP was SUCCESSFUL in sabotaging much of the ACA.

Then when problems arise from the sabotage that occured, people who aren't thinking very deeply, tend to blame the wrong entity for the problems.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Yup, and people need to really be more thoughtful about any issues that MAY pop up with Obamacare or the ACA.
> 
> If there is an issue, one has to ask WHY that's occurring? Is it an issue that would've been better addressed by having a public option? If so, remember that the only reason we don't have a public option, is because the GOP would not allow it.
> 
> ...


Well I am not one of them because my 40 year old son is very ill & cannot work. He has no insurance, therefore, guess who foots his medical bills? Me! He has been refused state medicaid 3x already. If he isn't in dire need of health insurance I want to know who is? It is sickening to go to our DES office & see young girls with 2, 3 or more children, their nails beautifully done, driving luxury cars, wearing all the bling they can without weighing themselves down & walking out with emergency food stamps, WIC, emergency medicaid & emergency cash in their sneaky little hands. I live on Social Security & the case worker's answer to me was 'It's your choice to have him living with you, so it's your choice to support him'. REALLY??? Should I turn him out on to the streets with all the other homeless people standing on corners with begging signs in their hands??


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## blessedinMO (Mar 9, 2013)

It doesn't work for me because I pay more, receive less, and therefore I can not partake of the poster's enthusiasm.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


I heard that Sen. Mary Landrieu of LA is starting a campaign based on asking constituents to contact Gov. Bobby Jindal to opt into the Medicare Expansion. Smart move on her part, I think.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> Well I am not one of them because my 40 year old son is very ill & cannot work. He has no insurance, therefore, guess who foots his medical bills? Me! He has been refused state medicaid 3x already. If he isn't in dire need of health insurance I want to know who is? It is sickening to go to our DES office & see young girls with 2, 3 or more children, their nails beautifully done, driving luxury cars, wearing all the bling they can without weighing themselves down & walking out with emergency food stamps, WIC, emergency medicaid & emergency cash in their sneaky little hands. I live on Social Security & the case worker's answer to me was 'It's your choice to have him living with you, so it's your choice to support him'. REALLY??? Should I turn him out on to the streets with all the other homeless people standing on corners with begging signs in their hands??


If he is very ill and doesn't work he should be on Medicare or Medicaid. He is an adult, you are not responsible for his bills. Let us pay them.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Yup, and people need to really be more thoughtful about any issues that MAY pop up with Obamacare or the ACA.
> 
> If there is an issue, one has to ask WHY that's occurring? Is it an issue that would've been better addressed by having a public option? If so, remember that the only reason we don't have a public option, is because the GOP would not allow it.
> 
> ...


That's right. Vote on who is looking out for your best interests not the party. There are good and bad in both and people have to do their homework and know who is really looking out for the middle class. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> If he is very ill and doesn't work he should be on Medicare or Medicaid. He is an adult, you are not responsible for his bills. Let us pay them.


You are correct Janet. As his mother you are not responsible for his bills and if he is disabled he is eligible for Social Security Disability and medical care. Has he applied for these benefits?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> Well I am not one of them because my 40 year old son is very ill & cannot work. He has no insurance, therefore, guess who foots his medical bills? Me! He has been refused state medicaid 3x already. If he isn't in dire need of health insurance I want to know who is? It is sickening to go to our DES office & see young girls with 2, 3 or more children, their nails beautifully done, driving luxury cars, wearing all the bling they can without weighing themselves down & walking out with emergency food stamps, WIC, emergency medicaid & emergency cash in their sneaky little hands. I live on Social Security & the case worker's answer to me was 'It's your choice to have him living with you, so it's your choice to support him'. REALLY??? Should I turn him out on to the streets with all the other homeless people standing on corners with begging signs in their hands??


You should report that case worker, what that person is telling you is just not true. There are federal guidelines they need to be using. The states have certain discretion, but he should be gettting a small amount of food stamps and medical help. 
Has he applied for SSDI yet?


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> If he is very ill and doesn't work he should be on Medicare or Medicaid. He is an adult, you are not responsible for his bills. Let us pay them.


Thank you Janet for your support. Too bad the government doesn't see it that way. This is a man who has been working since the age of 12! We don't even have to pay them as he has plenty of his own tax contributions over the past 26 years that he should be covered with his own money. Disgusting isn't it?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

blessedinMO said:


> It doesn't work for me because I pay more, receive less, and therefore I can not partake of the poster's enthusiasm.


May I ask if you have private health insurance, medicare or medicaid? Why isn't it working for you? I respect your privacy if you don't wish to share that information.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Sorry I entered twice. Pardon me.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are correct Janet. As his mother you are not responsible for his bills and if he is disabled he is eligible for Social Security Disability and medical care. Has he applied for these benefits?


Yes, he has & now we are awaiting a trial date for SS. They have turned him down twice so far because he couldn't bring himself to admit how sick he is & for the past 6 years has worked at a multitude of full time jobs hoping that he wouldn't get sick enough to lose them. BTW he was a 6 figure earning executive at one point for 4 years. So, according to his attorney, because he tried to be an upstanding, independent citizen, he is now being punished by SS for being so.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


Jean, first of all, why would a person who doesn't want to discuss politics click INTO a thread called "Affordable Care Act is Working and so is Obamacare!"

If you're too lazy to figure out how to NOT click into a thread like this, I can see how you might not have the capacity to actually LEARN about Obamacare it what it may have to offer you.

So excuse me, but I think it's perfectly legitimate to say that your claim that Obamacare has been a disaster for you is likely complete bullcrap. Either you're lying, or you haven't actually fully explored what Obamacare may have to offer you and your family in terms of helping you getting access to affordable health care.

Eitherway, your inability to understand that you don't click on and enter into a political thread when you supposedly don't WANT to discuss political issues, tells us all we need to know about your capacity to make rational decisions.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You should report that case worker, what that person is telling you is just not true. There are federal guidelines they need to be using. The states have certain discretion, but he should be gettting a small amount of food stamps and medical help.
> Has he applied for SSDI yet?


Once again he was turned down for that too because he lives with me. He does receive food stamps & I am so thankful because the nature of his disease requires foods bought at specialty stores at times because the regular grocery stores don't stock enough of the required products.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Where will we go when the Dr. Offices will not accept Medicare pts. due to small re-imbursments? In large cities maybe not a problem but rural areas are stuck or drive many miles. Our plan requires us to budget $750 a month for premiums, drug plan, co-pays, deductibles and travel. That is including the premium taken out of SS. What may be left over will go in the fund for the next year and so on as prices are just going to go up as projected 15-30% a year. Because we have worked hard and acquired assets we are penalized. Would be cheaper if we were not a so called middle class family. I see everyday young people losing that dream because they do not want to work for those who don't. Don't not can't , they are different. We give and then give some more to help others but that will change when taxes go up and we lose that option. Well, as soap box is so high, I will now try to climb down carefully so as to not break a leg.


Montana Grandma - You should contact your state and federal legislators and tell them how dissatisfied you are and that your health care is too expensive for you and that you in the middle class deserve a break. The squeaky wheel does get the grease and let them know you will vote for the people who help you and not for the people who ignore you. Don't be shy about letting them know how this is affecting you and your family and I wish you well.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Once again he was turned down for that too because he lives with me. He does receive food stamps & I am so thankful because the nature of his disease requires foods bought at specialty stores at times because the regular grocery stores don't stock enough of the required products.


Has your son applied for assisted living in your area? I would think he would be eligible for that and then he could receive the other benefits he needs as well and relieve you of the financial burden? I know as a mother we do whatever we can for our kids and if they hurt so do we.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

NJG said:


> So can you explain how it is not working for you, so we can understand.


I'm not even interested in that, because what we've already seen from FauxNews is that these people make claims about the awful things that Obamacare is doing to them...

And then when their stories actually get investigated, it turns out that their stories are completely untrue.

Small employers who say that because of the ACA requirements they have to lay people off. ... and then you find out they only have 8 employees and the ACA doesn't put those requirements on a business that small. They were already exempt and either they lied, or they were too stupid and drank the ACA Koolaid that FauxNews fed them.

Or like the couple who said that their baby girl wasn't covered, and THAT turned out to be a complete and TOTAL untruth.... because the baby WOULD'VE been covered... Had the guy remembered to actually LIST the baby when he applied. Obamacare only didn't "cover the baby", because the father "forgot" to tell them the baby even existed!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Has your son applied for assisted living in your area? I would think he would be eligible for that and then he could receive the other benefits he needs as well. I understand where you are coming from as you have just enough income that it actually hurts you. What state are you in?


He can't apply for anything where an income is necessary because he has none. He doesn't qualify for assisted housing/living because he has no money or health insurance. It's always a double edged sword situation. 
I am in Arizona where Janice 'Jackass' Brewer is the governor. You can't expect much from a woman who says no medicaid if you are childless. I asked that caseworker if he knew where I could go rent my son a child. BTW...have you heard about the over 7,000 abused child reports that 'slipped through the cracks' under her administration? All are now being investigated & the agency will not publicize how many of these children are either now dead or missing.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Sorry to hear that those of you from Arizona, Montana and Missouri are having a hard time with the Affordable Care Act. But of course you live in very conservative areas whose politicians thwart Obama at every turn for sport. You elected jerks so now of course you have to pay for it. Again I am sorry. It seems like the ACA is the best thing to happen in my lifetime for the younger set.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Sorry to hear that those of you from Arizona, Montana and Missouri are having a hard time with the Affordable Care Act. But of course you live in very conservative areas whose politicians thwart Obama at every turn for sport. You elected jerks so now of course you have to pay for it. Again I am sorry. It seems like the ACA is the best thing to happen in my lifetime for the younger set.


I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

robszombie said:


> absolutely awful for ne and my family:-( I'm a supporter of Obama but this while insurance thing is really depressing my husband and I can't afford it even tho it claims we can. we live very frugaly but that's life I guess! oh well I am glad it is working for some


I'm sorry you've been having such a hard time with it.

There will be people who fall through the cracks. However, we must remember that's mostly because the GOP watered down the ACA into a less comprehensive bill. Having a public option would've gone a LONG way in providing the kind of competition that would create plans that you could better afford.

If the private insurance companies WANTED to compete, they'd have to meet the benefits that the public option provided, if they didn't want to compete, at LEAST there would've been a public option available to you that would be more affordable than the private options offered.

The public option was the thing that the Dems wanted to help people like you, who might've fallen somewhere in between, get access to _something_. The GOP prevented this.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> I'm sorry you've been having such a hard time with it.
> 
> There will be people who fall through the cracks. However, we must remember that's mostly because the GOP watered down the ACA into a less comprehensive bill. Having a public option would've gone a LONG way in providing the kind of competition that would create plans that you could better afford.
> 
> ...


This is not the only thing the GOP has done to hurt me (us). I can go all the way back to Ron Reagan & tell you stories that would raise the hair on your head. In fact, I could write a book. I even had a Social Security JUDGE tell me that I was absolutely correct, but, the law had to be followed & he had to rule against us. This IS a great country & I love it with all my heart, but.....


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

K2P2 knitter said:


> I didn't vote for these people in the first place. The unfortunate thing is some of the citizens in this state vote Republican because their parents have voted that way all their life what they fail to realize is voting for someone based just on their political party is almost like throwing their vote away. I vote for the person running for office not because of the party they belong to.


That is so true. Some people vote against their own best self interest.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

stirfry said:


> I am so happy that it is working for you. For so many it is a disaster. The state hospital where we go to several different doctors is not taking any of the insurance from Obamacare. They say the reimbursements are too low. Doesn't say much for a state hospital.


They may not have a contract with the health insurance you now carry, it is open enrollment time. You should probably switch it out.
It does seem odd, did the navigator you worked with to sign up for your health insurance check that out for you?


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

NJG said:


> That is so true. Some people vote against their own best self interest.


I disagree in regards to disregarding party affiliation.

While I certainly will not vote for someone I don't think is at least thinking the right way REGARDLESS of party affiliation.

I also understand that the way the founding fathers created our government was VIA a party system. And no one person, no matter how wonderful they are can do much of anything without working with other party members to put forth an agenda they basically agree upon.

I would say that one person CAN be a pretty effective wrench in the works and PREVENT things from happening.

But, there's something sick about voting for someone based on what they can muck up, instead of what they can help accomplish.

So basically if there's there's two or more candidates that I basically agree with on certain political issues, the truth is, it's the one who can caucus with a party to get things done is what will be my most _effective_ vote.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

stirfry said:


> I am so happy that it is working for you. For so many it is a disaster. The state hospital where we go to several different doctors is not taking any of the insurance from Obamacare. They say the reimbursements are too low. Doesn't say much for a state hospital.


The truth is, depending on the plan, EVEN BEFORE Obamacare, your doctor might not be covered if you switch plans.

Negotiations between the hospitals and insurers will be on going.

Here's some info that may help you:

⇒ Montefiore will be in-network for seven out of the nine insurance plans offered in the regionall except for Fidelis Care, a Catholic non-profit, and MetroPlus, the insurance arm of the citys public hospital system.

⇒ Mt. Sinai Health System, which recently grew to include Beth Israel, St. Lukes Roosevelt and other facilities, is in-network for six insurers.

⇒ Maimonides Medical Center, in Brooklyn, is in-network for five.

⇒ Medisys, which includes hospitals in Flushing and Jamaica, is in seven plans.

⇒ Brookdale Hospital is in four.

⇒ Northshore-LIJ, the states largest hospital system, has its own insurance plan  and is in-network for five others.

⇒ NYU is in-network for three insurers, Fidelis, Affinity and United.

⇒ New York-Presbyterian is in-network for United, Emblem and Aetna.


----------



## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

The trouble with the Missouri Politians is they choose to do nothing in regards to opting into the federal Medicaid Program because they were so sure that the ACA wan't going to pass and they wouldn't have to do anything it would be business as usual. Their plan didn't work so all the citizens of this state are the ones who pay for their stupidity. Later on they decided they made a mistake but it was to late for them to do anything so all the money they passed up is now being use to help other states. They lost a lot of federal aid which they will never get back. This was in the Missouri Newspaper quite some time ago and was verified.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

K2P2 knitter said:


> I live in Missouri which is one of the states that opted out of Medicaid because it is a predominately Republican State. The only insurance the participates have to choose from is Aetna or Blue Cross Blue Shield because those two are the ones the hospitals in our area will accept. The State of Missouri also decided to determine which medical supply company could supply items like diabetic meters and other supplies to the residents. This also includes supplies to the Medicare recipients. I don't think they should have the right to choose which equipment supplier we can obtain supplies from.


Many states had limited options like that LONG before Obamacare happened.

And be it a private insurance or via Obamacare insurance almost always tells you which equipment suppliers you can use because they negotiate prices with them just as they do the healthcare providers.

I think we have to be careful of blaming problems that are _already existent_ in the system onto Obamacare.

Again, many of these issues could've been resolved if the private option or single payer system wasn't sabotaged by the GOP.


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## K2P2 knitter (Jan 31, 2013)

Missouri's was driven only by your insurance which was the same for Medicare. The ACA wasn't the cause of singling out only one medical supply carrier for the state it was the Missouri Politians that made the decision to limit us.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


I love you KneonKnitter because in my heart all pols are the worst.

My daughter is almost 31 and her office let her stay home and work.

I am keeping my eye on the mayor of NYC when it isn't on the governor of NJ.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


Have you used your coverage yet? That's the acid test.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> I love you KneonKnitter because in my heart all pols are the worst.
> 
> My daughter is almost 31 and her office let her stay home and work.
> 
> I am keeping my eye on the mayor of NYC when it isn't on the governor of NJ.


LOL SQM! I knew that you being a NY'er would totally understand what I was saying & how I was saying it. Some one from else where would have seen it as a statement that would start a duel to the death. hahahaha. No one understands a Native NY'er like a Native NY'er. 
I'm glad your daughter was safe at home. Sounds like she has a great employer. 
As far as Christie goes, after the Washington Bridge scandal, I would have to place him on the Jackass list right along with Jan Brewer. 
My husband & I used to have conversations about how our founding fathers would kill themselves if they ever came back & see what has been done to this country & the Constitution. We always said it was a good thing the Declaration of Independence didn't have the loop holes the Constitution does & is open to the interpretation of the morons in our government.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Well this might be construed as good news from Obama:

He is allowing banks to loan money to businesses that sell marijuana legally.

Looks like times they are a changin'.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Obamacare is working? BWAHAHAHAAHAHA!! And if you like your plan you can keep it, too.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Yup, and people need to really be more thoughtful about any issues that MAY pop up with Obamacare or the ACA.
> 
> If there is an issue, one has to ask WHY that's occurring? Is it an issue that would've been better addressed by having a public option? If so, remember that the only reason we don't have a public option, is because the GOP would not allow it.
> 
> ...


20% of a Million dollars is still a lot of money.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Well this might be construed as good news from Obama:
> 
> He is allowing banks to loan money to businesses that sell marijuana legally.
> 
> Looks like times they are a changin'.


Now that works for me! My son is a medical marijuana user & we have 'state licensed & certified' dispensaries & then the ones that are not. When the law here was 1st passed, there were 3 'state approved' & dozens of non approved. We didn't know at the time, but, the dispensary he was using was one of the illegal ones & it got raided!! We had been there the day before. That was when he realized what the real deal was. He went on the internet & researched & found an approved one. With the growth of approved dispensaries, there is now one 1/2 mile from our house & they are reasonably priced & treat my son well & with respect. It's good for the country's economy to operate legal businesses, no matter what they are & they also serve to squash the illegal operations. Of course I'm not talking about street corner operations.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


Sorry, but if you don't vote you have no room to complain IMHO. Voting is our greatest right. Many recent elections have been won by the narrowest of margins, which just goes to show that voting does work. People in Republican-run states are suffering because they voted for them--or are guilty of not turning out in large enough numbers to defeat them.


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Sorry, but if you don't vote you have no room to complain IMHO. Voting is our greatest right. Many recent elections have been won by the narrowest of margins, which just goes to show that voting does work. People in Republican-run states are suffering because they voted for them--or are guilty of not turning out in large enough numbers to defeat them.


And IMHO I don't want to hear that phrase because I am sick of hearing it. It is my right as an American to make my own choices & my choice is not to vote. It does not IMHO make a difference whether I vote or not. Politicians will still do what they want, when they want. When was the last time you voted yourself a hefty raise, cut the COLA to the public & then went on a paid vacation? It is also my right to complain if I want to, which I usually don't unless I feel strongly about the subject & how it affects me. In general, I usually don't get into political or religious discussions because we all have our own opinions & get very argumentative about it. You try to change my way of thinking & vice versa. Politics & religion discussions are taboo in my house. Always were. If a discussion started I had no trouble telling my guests that they had to change the conversation to another subject. If they didn't like it they were free to leave. I let people live their lives as they see fit & I expect the same consideration. My youngest son is a staunch republican, having been raised in a democratic household. He's entitled to his opinion. He is a very intelligent man & if he believes what he believes is right, then more power to him, but, I am not going to get into a debate with him over his beliefs.


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## argmom1 (Jan 13, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> May I ask if you have private health insurance, medicare or medicaid? Why isn't it working for you? I respect your privacy if you don't wish to share that information.


does't help my family either- have private (employer sponsored)- and our premiums increased, deductible quadrupled, and copays doubled. Thanks Obama-Oh and now I only get to work 29 hours a week- less income to pay for these increases- terrific


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Have you used your coverage yet? That's the acid test.


Yes, I have used it three times and had no problems. All the same doctors, medical facilities with platinum level coverage and for a lot smaller premium than I was paying before. I had pre existing condition which I had to pay more for but now people who have pre exisiting conditions are not penalized. It passed the acid test with flying colors. I had many insurance companies and options to choose from and before I made my final selection all I had to do was put in my doctors, specialists, clinic, hospital name to verify that the plan I selected included all my preferences. It did take a while for the bugs to get ironed out of the programming and it was a little frustrating but once the system was running well I was very pleased and I was covered Jan 1 as promised.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, I have used it three times and had no problems. All the same doctors, medical facilities with platinum level coverage and for a lot smaller premium than I was paying before. I had prexisting condition which I had to pay more for but now people who have prexisiting conditions are not penalized. It passed the acid test with flying colors. I had many insurance companies and options to choose from and before I made my final selection all I had to do was put in my doctors, specialists, clinic, hospital name to verify that the plan I selected included all my preferences. It did take a while for the bugs to get ironed out of the programming and it was a little frustrating but once the system was running well I was very pleased.


Have you been hospitalized with this coverage? Many states still only have 2 plans to choose from so not much competition to lower premiums.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

argmom1 said:


> does't help my family either- have private (employer sponsored)- and our premiums increased, deductible quadrupled, and copays doubled. Thanks Obama-Oh and now I only get to work 29 hours a week- less income to pay for these increases- terrific


I'm retired now, but kept my work insurance I got through my last employer. As long as I can remember premiums increased every single year and still does now. As costs go up, premiums go up. Deductibles and co-pays changed depending on how good a deal my employers negotiated with the companies. Fortunately, a few years before I retired I got on Kaiser (my employer offered a choice of 3 different companies) and now don't have any deductibles or co-pays. I only pay for prescriptions [low-cost] and office visits [$15] as my employer negotiated a good deal. I took early retirement and won't be eligible for Medicare for another 6 or 7 years, so I will be staying with this insurance, which is great, and so won't be applying for ACA insurance. But if I didn't have such great coverage I certainly would!


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Montana Grandma - You should contact your state and federal legislators and tell them how dissatisfied you are and that your health care is too expensive for you and that you in the middle class deserve a break. The squeaky wheel does get the grease and let them know you will vote for the people who help you and not for the people who ignore you. Don't be shy about letting them know how this is affecting you and your family and I wish you well.


Thankyou for your concern. People in this state are not afraid to speak up!! We could move , wish we had before the Gkids came along!! To hard now. The theme of too expensive for any segment of society is going to just be the norm. Priorities will have to change, younger voters are going to have to look ahead, become more involved and take more steps to assure fairness for themselves and their children. We will sell and rent. Personal choices will change for many. But that is the flow to life. My DH loves to go and cancel a vote!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Have you been hospitalized with this coverage? Many states still only have 2 plans to choose from so not much competition to lower premiums.


I have talked to my orthopaedic surgeon as I will probably have joint replacement surgery within the next couple years. He said that I will get the same care I received with my two prior replacements and I also was sent Preferred Cares handbook which provides all the coverages and costs my plan covers. I will pay less out of pocket than I did before. There are no surprises. All you have to do is take the time to read what the plans cover and if you have questions their are guides(people who are trained within your state to help you) or you can contact the insurance company directly and ask questions and also get your plan hand book. It's all out there for you to see so you know exactly what you are getting. Why would anyone pay for something site unseen? It's too bad that all states didn't opt to set up their own exchanges as their are many more choices if they do. For the states that didn't do this there is not as much variety. There are different price levels and their are credits to help people pay the premiums based on their family income. Let me know if you have any other questions. I would be happy to help you if I can.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> Thankyou for your concern. People in this state are not afraid to speak up!! We could move , wish we had before the Gkids came along!! To hard now. The theme of too expensive for any segment of society is going to just be the norm. Priorities will have to change, younger voters are going to have to look ahead, become more involved and take more steps to assure fairness for themselves and their children. We will sell and rent. Personal choices will change for many. But that is the flow to life. My DH loves to go and cancel a vote!


I hear you loud and clear and can really identify with your situation. You are correct that the kids and grand kids had better get involved and look to leaders who will take care of families and be more concerned abut the people back home than they are for any political party. Your husband sounds like mine and it is usually my vote he cancels out!


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> ① I think we need to stop having discussions based on RW scare tactics that don't often come to fruition.
> 
> However, if we are to fix such issues we have to realize WHY those issues exist.
> 
> ...


First of all I was not blaming anyone in particular for the situation, just wondering how a problem will be solved. 
Secondly, do not assume I am a GOP supporter sabotaging anyone or any thing. I am Canadian but I pay enough taxes , more than a lot of my friends and family and feel that gives me the right to wonder and hope for the best distribution of my contributions for the last 45 years. 
My monthly budget for health care is based on total health care situations that can arise and as I answered before, we will compromise for it. But some of my friends pay that much in premiums alone. Their solution, spouse quit working to be in a lower bracket to get the tax break in the new sign up. Less $ supporting the community, less charitable donations etc. that is the new reality .


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

K2P2 knitter said:


> Missouri's was driven only by your insurance which was the same for Medicare. The ACA wasn't the cause of singling out only one medical supply carrier for the state it was the Missouri Politians that made the decision to limit us.


Agreed. There seems to be a "convenient" lapse of memory and some are attributing issues that were inherent in the health care system BEFORE Obamacare and pretending these issues only developed AFTER Obamacare.

That will include any supposed "Death Panels", that have LONG been in practice LONG before Obamacare.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

CarolfromTX said:


> Obamacare is working? BWAHAHAHAAHAHA!! And if you like your plan you can keep it, too.


That's absolutely right. And yes, everybody who likes their plan can keep it.

Except of course people who were stupid enough to buy scam plans that engage in predatory behavior the same way predatory lenders would find the poorest neighborhoods, lie to them about rates and then sell them loans that they couldn't afford.

Yes, right now, if you like to proverbially be "made love to from behind" without consent, you can keep the health plan that will allow that.

If you like to be raped in that manner, that's your right, but that doesn't some how "legalize" the act of rape.

The same holds true for those scam plans that have temporarily been given an extension because stupid people haven't figured out that they're being raped yet.

Otherwise, yes,... IF YOU'RE A RATIONAL PERSON, and want to keep your plan... you can keep it.

But only an irrational moron would want the kind of plans that Obamacare is now making ILLEGAL.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> 20% of a Million dollars is still a lot of money.


Your point being?


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

sumpleby said:


> kneonknitter said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.
> ...


I agree. I expect a retort to you with something like "I have a "right" not to vote".

Of course _you never said they don't have the right to be the cliche' stupid American_. Just that if they're so WILLFULLY stupid, don't expect anyone to take your whining seriously.

You forfeited your chance to at least TRY and do something about it. So, none of us really give a crap about what they may have to say NOW.

Not to mention, it's just intellectually lazy to presume "they're all jerks" etc.

First of all, they're not ALL jerks, _but even if they were._.. so the heck what? Just because someone is a jerk, doesn't mean they can't be an effective representative. As a matter of fact, who the hell wants a "nice person" to be their representative when you know he/she has to deal with and fight against the rest of the jerks out there?

I don't want an EVIL person, but I don't need a NICE person. They can be a jerk... but they just have to make the right votes.

Ben Franklin was a genius in many ways, but let's face it... he was quite the "jerk", and Adams was a pain in the butt nasty, contemptuous little butthole who truly deserved to be put in his place.

But they had such great things to contribute to this nation.

The truth is... with the corporation holding the purse-strings of our democracy... even if we were lucky enough to have a "non-jerk" to vote for, there's no way in hell someone like that will be able to win against monied interests.

The only way "non-jerks" will ever be able to succeed and get elected on a regular basis, you have to vote for people who will at least TRY to maneuver past the monied interests and start to change how money influences our elections.

In otherwords, we can no longer go along with thinking that "_Corporations are people too my friends_".

PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, and anyone who doesn't understand that... THEY are the TRUE jerks of our society that need to be ousted.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Just a small matter - Franklin, Adams and the other Framers were only willing to create a democracy for the wealthy landowners. The other citizens were deemed incapable of making rational decisions. That is why we have the electoral college. So our Founding Fathers were mostly jerks who did not care for people without wealth.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Just a small matter - Franklin, Adams and the other Framers were only willing to create a democracy for the wealthy landowners. The other citizens were deemed incapable of making rational decisions. That is why we have the electoral college. So our Founding Fathers were mostly jerks who did not care for people without wealth.


And how little has changed over the course of some 240 years...

IMHO there's little connection between an elected leader's personal appeal and his or her ability to govern effectively. Bill Clinton was and probably still is a jerk--but he was one of the best Presidents we ever had. What a contrast to Ronald Wilson Reagan, a thoroughly nice guy with the IQ of a floor lamp. I always believed him when he said he "didn't know" about the Iran-Contra scandal, the S and L fiasco, or those ludicrous attempts to woo Iran behind Congress' back. Of course Reagan "knew nothing"--he was too busy watching old movies and snoozing in front of the television set.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

argmom1 said:


> does't help my family either- have private (employer sponsored)- and our premiums increased, deductible quadrupled, and copays doubled. Thanks Obama-Oh and now I only get to work 29 hours a week- less income to pay for these increases- terrific


Did you think that since you are not working the qualifying number of hours that you would do better to opt out of your employer's plan and go independent?
Why don't you check that out?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Eureka! I'm just so glad it's helping so many people. I don't care just who gets credit for it. It's something we need.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you been able to figure out the problem? Do you have health insurance now?



kneonknitter said:


> I am glad for you & your state. It certainly doesn't seem to be working for me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you figured out the problem?



blessedinMO said:


> I'm very happy it is working for you. It is nor working so well for me, so I can not partake of your enthusiasm.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Advice: Unwatch it.



JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you kneon knitter. I appreciate lively discussion.



kneonknitter said:


> JeanJ just a hint...you are free to skip, ignore or not pay any further attention to any posts you don't like. This is the chit chat section where just about everything outside of knitting can be discussed. There are those of us who have no one to discuss these things with & enjoy the lively conversation some subjects provoke. I am glad this section exists.
> Have a great day!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> ① I think we need to stop having discussions based on RW scare tactics that don't often come to fruition.
> 
> However, if we are to fix such issues we have to realize WHY those issues exist.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My father used to say, 'if you don't vote, you don't get to complain.'



kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> I disagree in regards to disregarding party affiliation.
> 
> While I certainly will not vote for someone I don't think is at least thinking the right way REGARDLESS of party affiliation.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: This is the way to make your vote count.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This has NOTHING to do with ACA. You have a private employer plan.



argmom1 said:


> does't help my family either- have private (employer sponsored)- and our premiums increased, deductible quadrupled, and copays doubled. Thanks Obama-Oh and now I only get to work 29 hours a week- less income to pay for these increases- terrific


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wonderful to hear. Thanks for sharing.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, I have used it three times and had no problems. All the same doctors, medical facilities with platinum level coverage and for a lot smaller premium than I was paying before. I had pre existing condition which I had to pay more for but now people who have pre exisiting conditions are not penalized. It passed the acid test with flying colors. I had many insurance companies and options to choose from and before I made my final selection all I had to do was put in my doctors, specialists, clinic, hospital name to verify that the plan I selected included all my preferences. It did take a while for the bugs to get ironed out of the programming and it was a little frustrating but once the system was running well I was very pleased and I was covered Jan 1 as promised.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We had Kaiser in Ohio years ago and loved it.



sumpleby said:


> I'm retired now, but kept my work insurance I got through my last employer. As long as I can remember premiums increased every single year and still does now. As costs go up, premiums go up. Deductibles and co-pays changed depending on how good a deal my employers negotiated with the companies. Fortunately, a few years before I retired I got on Kaiser (my employer offered a choice of 3 different companies) and now don't have any deductibles or co-pays. I only pay for prescriptions [low-cost] and office visits [$15] as my employer negotiated a good deal. I took early retirement and won't be eligible for Medicare for another 6 or 7 years, so I will be staying with this insurance, which is great, and so won't be applying for ACA insurance. But if I didn't have such great coverage I certainly would!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> That's absolutely right. And yes, everybody who likes their plan can keep it.
> 
> Except of course people who were stupid enough to buy scam plans that engage in predatory behavior the same way predatory lenders would find the poorest neighborhoods, lie to them about rates and then sell them loans that they couldn't afford.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: He just left himself open to a lot of grief by assuming that RATIONAL people would prefer a good plan to a scam. Common sense is not common at all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> I agree. I expect a retort to you with something like "I have a "right" not to vote".
> 
> Of course _you never said they don't have the right to be the cliche' stupid American_. Just that if they're so WILLFULLY stupid, don't expect anyone to take your whining seriously.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Well put!


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## kneonknitter (Feb 10, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> I agree. I expect a retort to you with something like "I have a "right" not to vote".
> 
> Of course _you never said they don't have the right to be the cliche' stupid American_. Just that if they're so WILLFULLY stupid, don't expect anyone to take your whining seriously.
> 
> ...


Since I am a stupid American because I choose not to vote & you do vote, therefore, making you much smarter than I, it's best that I leave this conversation before I get even stupider than I already am & start saying some really stupid things.
Bye.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

I don't see you as "stupid." Merely misguided and foolish. Foolish in that, by not voting, you allow others to make all the decisions in how your state & country is run. And I stand by what I originally said--if you don't vote you can't complain because you abdicated that right.


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## Geeks Crotchet (Apr 3, 2013)

I am happy it is working for you. However, for millions of other people it is not working., and I do not appreciate your using this site to talk about Obamacare or any politics. This is not what this site is all about.


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## delite163 (Mar 13, 2012)

kneonknitter said:


> I am glad for you & your state. It certainly doesn't seem to be working for me.


Most of the time it doesn't work in states that didn't opt in for the Medicaid money. It's like this in Tenn. and other states that didn't.


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## delite163 (Mar 13, 2012)

NJG said:


> So can you explain how it is not working for you, so we can understand.


Mostly it's because the state officials decided to not take the Medicaid money. Remember this is a program where we all have to contribute Congress has been trying to obstruct us from having national health care. Call your congressmen and really put the pressure on them to change their mind.


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## Liz at Furze (Jun 24, 2012)

I don't quite understand what this is. Is 'Obamacare' sort of like our National Health Service?


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## jannetie (May 30, 2012)

I'm right there with you, SQM and kneonknitter! Christie, that gasbag, should resign and do everyone, except maybe the hardline repubs and the Koch Brothers, a huge favor. I live in the wrong half of the state to be considered living blue in a blue state - most voters in south Jersey are red! I do vote, however, even in the school board elections.. And I'm a native NYer - even tho' I only lived there my first eight years, then PA for the next fifteen. But now I'm a parttime NYer again, upstate with a wonderful garden in the summer and loving it!

Janice


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Montana Gramma said:


> First of all I was not blaming anyone in particular for the situation, just wondering how a problem will be solved.
> Secondly, do not assume I am a GOP supporter sabotaging anyone or any thing. I am Canadian but I pay enough taxes , more than a lot of my friends and family and feel that gives me the right to wonder and hope for the best distribution of my contributions for the last 45 years.
> My monthly budget for health care is based on total health care situations that can arise and as I answered before, we will compromise for it. But some of my friends pay that much in premiums alone. Their solution, spouse quit working to be in a lower bracket to get the tax break in the new sign up. Less $ supporting the community, less charitable donations etc. that is the new reality .


If one person quits a job to qualify for a tax break (pretty short sighted IMHO) doesn't that leave the job opening for someone else who then puts the money into the community? 
Probably those donations will help the folks who had a spouse quit a job.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

Well, I'm so glad it is working for you. Especially since my premiums and out of pocket expenses increased, since Obama care went into effect, to subsides Obama care health care coverage. Maybe the Republicans feel that everybody else shouldn't have to carry the burden for Obama care; and, maybe Obama should have allowed congress and due process to work this plan out instead of bulling it through the system.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

Glad it's working for you! I have to pay ridiculous premiums for my health insurance and they get higher every year. Pretty soon I will be paying to work!


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## kammyv4 (Aug 6, 2012)

I am glad that it is making some of your lives easier. However, those of us that are working and have insurance through our employers are paying more in premiums and higher copays and deductibles. The reason we are paying more is to cover the "free" services provided by the ACA. The insurance company needs to find the money somewhere, so their reasoning is to take it from the current plans they have. I have also had working friends that pay for their insurance and their policies were just discontinued so that they could purchase a higher deductible/copay plan. They didn't qualify for Obamacare. My point is it doesn't work if your income is above a certain level, you just end up paying more for less.


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## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

It did not do anything for me except raise my rate (even with the subsidy) and give me less benefits than what I currently have. For now I can keep my old plan, but I do not know what will happen next year. Very disappointed in this program. The only thing I see it doing is making a profit for the insurance companies. I would rather keep my same plan and ge a deduction of what my subsidy would be off my taxes.


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## ChrisGV (Apr 5, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> It also live in Minnesota and signed up for MnSure. Since I retired in January, it's only been a bit more than my insurance at work would have been. I couldn't have retired without it. Cobra would have cost I and my husband $1600 a month with pre existing conditions. I have the same doctors and hospitals


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

It seems to be working very well in states that participated in the Medicaid expansion. In those states many people were able to get the subsidies making the cost very reasonable. All depends on your Govenor.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Liz at Furze said:


> I don't quite understand what this is. Is 'Obamacare' sort of like our National Health Service?


Not hardly. Hopefully, it won't bankrupt this country down the road.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nancyn said:


> It did not do anything for me except raise my rate (even with the subsidy) and give me less benefits than what I currently have. For now I can keep my old plan, but I do not know what will happen next year. Very disappointed in this program. The only thing I see it doing is making a profit for the insurance companies. I would rather keep my same plan and ge a deduction of what my subsidy would be off my taxes.


I guess the insurance companies aren't complaining about a potential 40 million new customers. If they don't get them WATCH OUT.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Ladyj960 said:


> Well, I'm so glad it is working for you. Especially since my premiums and out of pocket expenses increased, since Obama care went into effect, to subsides Obama care health care coverage. Maybe the Republicans feel that everybody else shouldn't have to carry the burden for Obama care; and, maybe Obama should have allowed congress and due process to work this plan out instead of bulling it through the system.


Can you explain why you think it works that way?
How much did your expenses go up this year in relation to past years?
Congress voted for this law. What is really too bad is that it had to be put through the way it was rather than as universal health care.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> If one person quits a job to qualify for a tax break (pretty short sighted IMHO) doesn't that leave the job opening for someone else who then puts the money into the community?
> Probably those donations will help the folks who had a spouse quit a job.


Probably not. The company will just add duties onto those who are left.


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

Glad it's working for you...but in reality it's not working...I live in a VERY democratic state and it's a mess....My husband has esophageal cancer stage 3 and he is thankfully now in remission...some new insurance rules happening due to Obama care..CAT scans are now denied for regular checkups..have to be sick and with this cancer when you feel sick it's usually far gone...I am sick over this..


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kammyv4 said:


> I am glad that it is making some of your lives easier. However, those of us that are working and have insurance through our employers are paying more in premiums and higher copays and deductibles. The reason we are paying more is to cover the "free" services provided by the ACA. The insurance company needs to find the money somewhere, so their reasoning is to take it from the current plans they have. I have also had working friends that pay for their insurance and their policies were just discontinued so that they could purchase a higher deductible/copay plan. They didn't qualify for Obamacare. My point is it doesn't work if your income is above a certain level, you just end up paying more for less.


Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with those of us who have health insurance through our employers. 
I am sorry that your employer was not able to negotiate a better rate, and your friends, too. 
My monthly premium went up $5. per month and now I have lab work done without a charge and no fee for mammograms. It's a wash, I would say.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Llavaia said:


> Glad it's working for you...but in reality it's not working...I live in a VERY democratic state and it's a mess....My husband has esophageal cancer stage 3 and he is thankfully now in remission...some new insurance rules happening due to Obama care..CAT scans are now denied for regular checkups..have to be sick and with this cancer when you feel sick it's usually far gone...I am sick over this..


Sorry about your husband's health, but, to consider that because he is in remission means that he would not be considered sick doesn't make sense. 
He really needs to talk to his oncologist, I think.
The diagnosis is what determines "sick" not how he feels.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Hi everyone, 

FYI: Just wanted to let you know that when you post to Vocal Lisa or Cheeky Blighter you are talking to the same person.

Make it a great day!


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## Mem51 (Jan 6, 2012)

It's great for me too! Just had cataract surgery on Friday. Didn't cost me a cent! Massachusetts had mandatory insurance long before it went federal. Go figure, MIT Romney, who opposed Obama care started the program when he was Governor of MA . Because of my income I qualified for state health care, thank God!


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## Munchn (Mar 3, 2013)

You are one of the lucky ones.


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## Ahirsch601 (Jul 23, 2013)

Unfortunately it should have been Medicare for all and cut the insurance companies out completely. It will always be too expensive for many people when the insurance companies have to take their cut. Insurance companies are dropping I profitable patients and blaming the ACA.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Mem51 said:


> It's great for me too! Just had cataract surgery on Friday. Didn't cost me a cent! Massachusetts had mandatory insurance long before it went federal. Go figure, MIT Romney, who opposed Obama care started the program when he was Governor of MA . Because of my income I qualified for state health care, thank God!


Friday and you think you aren't gonna pay for something? Give them a chance to add it all up. You'll get a bill.


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## Nana99 (Jan 13, 2014)

What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> Unfortunately it should have been Medicare for all and cut the insurance companies out completely. It will always be too expensive for many people when the insurance companies have to take their cut. Insurance companies are dropping I profitable patients and blaming the ACA.


Well just drop your insurance company and see how much you'll have to pay. LOL.


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## Grama Guinn (Sep 12, 2013)

I think we could dispense with politics seeing how it is such a sensitive subject.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


Not in this section it isn't. This section is for chit chat not related to crafting.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Munchn said:


> You are one of the lucky ones.


It isn't really about luck, if you read the entries not just here, all over the internet, what you will see is that some people go into the insurance seeking adventure with the same enthusiasm as someone seeking the perfect pattern and yarn to go with it.

People list their doctors and other institutions that they need to use and plug them into the system to find out who will provide them with those services. 
People who are successful at finding appropriate coverage take the time read what they are being offered and go with what works best for them.


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## flohel (Jan 24, 2011)

Thank you for an honest report on Affordable care act. Yes the states who opted out from the medicaid expansion really hurt their most susceptible citizens. Sad they had to play politics instead what they were hired to do in the best interest of the citizens .


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It isn't really about luck, if you read the entries not just here, all over the internet, what you will see is that some people go into the insurance seeking adventure with the same enthusiasm as someone seeking the perfect pattern and yarn to go with it.
> 
> People list their doctors and other institutions that they need to use and plug them into the system to find out who will provide them with those services.
> People who are successful at finding appropriate coverage take the time read what they are being offered and go with what works best for them.


And most don't have any choice.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> And most don't have any choice.


MOST are not impacted by the ACA at all.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> MOST are not impacted by the ACA at all.


Many are. Especially in rural areas. Many will have to travel long distances to get care.


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## Liz at Furze (Jun 24, 2012)

Grama Guinn said:


> I think we could dispense with politics seeing how it is such a sensitive subject.


It's a really good way for those of us in different countries to see other ways of doing things. I still am not sure whether 'Obamacare' is similar to our National Health Service. It seems to be a cross between the NHS and private health insurance. Am I right?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Liz at Furze said:


> It's a really good way for those of us in different countries to see other ways of doing things. I still am not sure whether 'Obamacare' is similar to our National Health Service. It seems to be a cross between the NHS and private health insurance. Am I right?


Most everyone has to pay for insurance. Albeit some pay nothing. It's an insurance. It's not free care. And it does not guarantee no rate hikes or affordable CARE at all. 20% or more of a million dollars is still a lot of money. 
Many think the preventive part with save money. What preventive care would change a person with COPD,diabetes, or cancer. For preventive care to actually save anyone money will take probably at least 2 or 3 generations. Long after most of us are gone.


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## norma j mcguire (Feb 12, 2014)

Good for you. You are the first I have heard that has it working. What news do you listen too? They said 3,000 signed up, but when they try to use it , it says no coverage.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

norma j mcguire said:


> Good for you. You are the first I have heard that has it working. What news do you listen too? They said 3,000 signed up, but when they try to use it , it says no coverage.


Remember: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
Ronald Reagan


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## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

It is one thing to be signed up and say you have medical insurance and another to see the accessibility, choices, quality and promptness of care you will receive. Doctors are not happy. They worked hard to get through medical school and are only being reimbursed pennies on the dollar. Many are dropping out.


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## Liz at Furze (Jun 24, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Most everyone has to pay for insurance. Albeit some pay nothing. It's an insurance. It's not free care. And it does not guarantee no rate hikes or affordable CARE at all. 20% or more of a million dollars is still a lot of money.
> Many think the preventive part with save money. What preventive care would change a person with COPD,diabetes, or cancer. For preventive care to actually save anyone money will take probably at least 2 or 3 generations. Long after most of us are gone.


Thanks 'Winding Road' It's sounding more like our National Insurance then. So presumably, everyone who is employed pays an amount- we call it a stamp tho' it's many years since it has actually been a physical stamp. (If you are self employed, you have a different rate as you employer doesn't contribute- obviously if you are self employed you don't have an employer!)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Liz at Furze said:


> It's a really good way for those of us in different countries to see other ways of doing things. I still am not sure whether 'Obamacare' is similar to our National Health Service. It seems to be a cross between the NHS and private health insurance. Am I right?


For the very poor, both at home and working, it is public health care. For those making a bit more it subsidized on a sliding scale, so to speak. That would be for people at "middle class" levels. 
For those who are secure financially it is private all the way. 
The independent seeker at full rates is a pretty small number. 
Employers provide more than 60% of workers with health care insurance options.


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## Liz at Furze (Jun 24, 2012)

Thanks Janet Cooke. Chit Chat is a great part of this site. It's a way of 'meeting' people and seeing so many different perspectives. It also breaks down so many preconceptions about our different national identities...and a great place for knitting too lol.
Thanks to all for the insights.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Torticollus said:


> It is one thing to be signed up and say you have medical insurance and another to see the accessibility, choices, quality and promptness of care you will receive. Doctors are not happy. They worked hard to get through medical school and are only being reimbursed pennies on the dollar. Many are dropping out.


Do you have stats on that?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Many are. Especially in rural areas. Many will have to travel long distances to get care.


True enough. My company is self insured and their plans must meet minimum standards. They cut the plan I was in so I had to take a plan with a deductable and the drugs costs went from 4-6$ a prescription to 30-50$. I actually pay more for healthcare now.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> JeanJ just a hint...you are free to skip, ignore or not pay any further attention to any posts you don't like. This is the chit chat section where just about everything outside of knitting can be discussed. There are those of us who have no one to discuss these things with & enjoy the lively conversation some subjects provoke. I am glad this section exists.
> Have a great day!


well said


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## gramjo (Nov 20, 2012)

Health care....I could write a book on our experiences in this house. I will limit myself to saying how varied care can be. My husband was very ill and we left our home state (where medical facilities are supposedly top-notch) and went to Rochester MN...Mayo Clinic. A world of difference. Nine months of tests at home, still no actual diagnosis. Within 12 hours of arriving there we had a diagnosis. Big things and little things...volunteers push a library cart from room to room...they come and will change the artwork in your room to something you like. When you have a test they actually take you straight in to the test...no sitting in a waiting room .......doctors who are teamed up to suit your needs.....someone in the hospital at all times from your team. Incredible patient care. And in the end the bills were less than the ones from our home state. Why can't this level of care be universal?????


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> ① I think we need to stop having discussions based on RW scare tactics that don't often come to fruition.
> 
> However, if we are to fix such issues we have to realize WHY those issues exist.
> 
> ...


Actually the whole problem is PAYING for Obamacare. Currently the federal debt is 16 Trillion dollars and rising. The Republicans opposed Obamacare because there was no money to pay for it,


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## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

I am an independent seeker and even though I qualify for a subsidy, it didn't help. I am now forced to buy insurance at a higher rate without a lot of options. If I choose to forgo insurance, I will be penalized. If it truly was a competitive market and all companies allowed to offer services, I think you would see some changes. When you see what an individual pays for the same procedures that insurance companies get, you would be shocked. Thousands in difference. Just look at any of your bills. I was hopingthat with all the new regulations, I would be able to purchase at a group rate. Needless to say, it did not happen.


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## Karen L (Feb 3, 2012)

I would not brag so loud about MN being so good. Friends of mine lost the coverage they had and now have to pay 50% of their prescriptions and doctor visits. They are low income and neither is able to work to increase their income. Try telling them that ObamaCare has improved their lives!


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## sandj (May 16, 2012)

Not in Florida!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Actually the whole problem is PAYING for Obamacare. Currently the federal debt is 16 Trillion dollars and rising. The Republicans opposed Obamacare because there was no money to pay for it,


There is no money to pay for so many things, what else have they voted to get rid of at the rate of 42 repeal votes?
Military equipment that the military doesn't want? No
Subidies to profitable corporations that don't need subsidies? No
Assistance to the tune of 100 million dollars for cattle breeders? No 
Clean up of superfund sites caused by private corporations that are massively profitable? No 
and on and on and on...


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Liz at Furze said:


> Thanks 'Winding Road' It's sounding more like our National Insurance then. So presumably, everyone who is employed pays an amount- we call it a stamp tho' it's many years since it has actually been a physical stamp. (If you are self employed, you have a different rate as you employer doesn't contribute- obviously if you are self employed you don't have an employer!)


It is not like your National Insurance. EVERYONE regardless of work status has to have insurance. Granted some will pay very little. If you don't have insurance you will be fined. Right now the fine is small and many will pay that instead of getting insurance. They will either get charity care from hospitals or "free" community clinics set up by citizens. It's against the law here to turn anyone away from an Emergency Room. So people can get immediate care. Follow up care and medications are another story all together.

When someone goes to their doctor here in the USA, they usually, mostly have a co-pay. Somewhere in the vicinity of $30-$35 dollars. But that isn't the end of the charges. Sometimes insurance doesn't pay the doc enough and there can still be a bill due.

Many of the "new" policies charge more in deductibles. One can have 80/20, or 70/30, or 60/40. Insurance pays 80% patient pays 20%. Care will not get cheaper. It can't. With technology and innovations the cost must rise or Americans will have to accept inferior care. There is no free lunch.

Right now, compared to most other countries, Americans pay far less in taxes and still squawk. Loudly. When we have to pay the taxes Europeans pay maybe the apathy and liberalism will finally meet it's match. I don't have any idea when that might happen.


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## kiwifrau (Jan 2, 2013)

Phew! 9 pages so far on this topic. All interesting comments, I feel for you all.

For years, all I remembered hearing was how many in the US had to go bankrupt if they didn't have medical insurance. How appalling! 

THANK GOODNESS I live in CANADA. 

We have one of the best Medicare systems in the World, (to me at least) as I am a Senior.

Yes our taxes are higher than those in the US, but here our Medical requirements are covered extremely well, even for most operations and medications. We pay a small fee, but that's about it.

For the younger ones, there is a small deduction from their income and their employer also contributes an amount. This is then sent to the Gov't monthly or quarterly. (May have changed a little over the years as I haven't worked for over 10) I know many people also have private insurance to cover what our gov't doesn't. All in All, we have it much easy here in Canada than the US.

Good Luck to all of you.


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## TapestryArtist (Sep 4, 2013)

My son lives in Missouri, is (almost except to be able to get into bed and out by himself) in an electric wheelchair, and he has Medicaid. Maybe you could try again?


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

It is a real pain in the neck -- not to mention other body parts. We have had a real problem getting meds that we have been using for years. I've just had to do without. Maybe they'll get their act together in my lifetime; however, it's kind of running short. Is it their way of getting rid of the elderly? Well, that's one way of saving money.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> It is not like your National Insurance. EVERYONE regardless of work status has to have insurance. Granted some will pay very little. If you don't have insurance you will be fined. Right now the fine is small and many will pay that instead of getting insurance. They will either get charity care from hospitals or "free" community clinics set up by citizens. It's against the law here to turn anyone away from an Emergency Room. So people can get immediate care. Follow up care and medications are another story all together.
> 
> When someone goes to their doctor here in the USA, they usually, mostly have a co-pay. Somewhere in the vicinity of $30-$35 dollars. But that isn't the end of the charges. Sometimes insurance doesn't pay the doc enough and there can still be a bill due.
> 
> ...


Right now the fine is NON-EXISTENT. It has not been implemented yet. You are uninformed in so many areas, you really should do some reading about the requirements.

Lab work, cancer screenings, smoking cessation, mental health treatment... look up some of those things and start thinking a bit broader than your own pocketbook. 
This law is not about one individual or couple, it is about cutting medical costs and keeping our population healthier.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> It is a real pain in the neck -- not to mention other body parts. We have had a real problem getting meds that we have been using for years. I've just had to do without. Maybe they'll get their act together in my lifetime; however, it's kind of running short. Is it their way of getting rid of the elderly? Well, that's one way of saving money.


If you are elderly your care has NOTHING to do with ACA.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

TapestryArtist said:


> My son lives in Missouri, is (almost except to be able to get into bed and out by himself) in an electric wheelchair, and he has Medicaid. Maybe you could try again?


It would be nice to know who you are addressing, TapestryArtist.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

kiwifrau said:


> Phew! 9 pages so far on this topic. All interesting comments, I feel for you all.
> 
> For years, all I remembered hearing was how many in the US had to go bankrupt if they didn't have medical insurance. How appalling!
> 
> ...


Similar to the USA. Some of your provinces don't have as good coverage as others. I know many Canadians who come to the USA for care. I live on the border.

Americans go bankrupt for most every reason you can think of. Mostly because they don't know how to manage their money. Look at the housing failure. Don't blame it all on the banks. People bought houses they couldn't afford. Plain and simple.

Two cars in every driveway, one for each of the kids, every new gadget around even before it's perfected. I could go on.

Bankruptcy is an easy way out. America didn't want to put it's debtors in prison as had happened in Europe. And now we have some great bankruptcy laws. Easy peasy to do it. Although it has gotten somewhat harder.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> If you are elderly your care has NOTHING to do with ACA.


Where do you get that notion from. ACA has everything to do with every thing.


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

The oncologist has been working with the insurance company to no avail...he is disgusted..my husband is being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering in NYC...it is a great place and I feel blessed to live nearby..I was surprised to learn that every doctor there is on salary they do not bill indepentally..


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Right now the fine is NON-EXISTENT. It has not been implemented yet. You are uninformed in so many areas, you really should do some reading about the requirements.
> 
> Lab work, cancer screenings, smoking cessation, mental health treatment... look up some of those things and start thinking a bit broader than your own pocketbook.
> This law is not about one individual or couple, it is about cutting medical costs and keeping our population healthier.


Thanks for boosting my argument. Well, seeing as where we don't have to enroll until next month everything about it is NON-EXISTENT.

Tell me how it will cut medical costs. NOT insurance costs, because by-in-large it hasn't.

How will it keep a diabetic healthier? Is the government gonna come into their kitchen and take away all their sweets?

I don't need the stuff and that was my point. It won't help everyone. Some tout it. Just like most liberals.

Of course, you know the definition of a liberal I'm sure

A liberal is someone who will give you the shirt off SOMEONE else's back.....


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Where do you get that notion from. ACA has everything to do with every thing.


ACA has to do with a relatively small percentage of the population.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

norma j mcguire said:


> Good for you. You are the first I have heard that has it working. What news do you listen too? They said 3,000 signed up, but when they try to use it , it says no coverage.


Norma, I was thinking the same thing. I live in MN and I'm having my doubts about the claim made here. MNsure website has been an unmitigated disaster and only a small number of people have been successful in signing up via the website and the average wait time for the call center has been over an hour. At least that's what all the news sources have been reporting. Also, those who thought they had coverage are finding that, in reality, they don't.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> ACA has to do with a relatively small percentage of the population.


40 million will make or break it.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> ACA has to do with a relatively small percentage of the population.


So you don't think you are subsidizing it? You don't think your neighbor is subsidizing it? Who's paying for it, if everyone who has it is paying less? OR nothing. Are you printing the money now?


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## lins (Jan 8, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> I am glad for you & your state. It certainly doesn't seem to be working for me.


Why or how isn't it working for you? I'm just curious. Thanks.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


Isn't this Chit-Chat where we can bring up any subject?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> Isn't this Chit-Chat where we can bring up any subject?


I think so.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


Isn't this Chit-Chat where we can bring up any subject?


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## jayne6666 (Oct 27, 2011)

yeah! yes yes yes!!
i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
only fox news and people who have NO respect for our President think it is horrible, 
and the absolute lies they spin! wow.
big insurance companies have a huge lobby in washington, and they are so angry about the ACA.
but,
i can get my shoulder fixed now.....ah
to be pain free!!!

wonderful.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> So you don't think you are subsidizing it? You don't think your neighbor is subsidizing it? Who's paying for it, if everyone who has it is paying less? OR nothing. Are you printing the money now?


I have been subsidizing health care for others since I started working and paying taxes at 15 yo. 
If you don't think that you were paying for others to get medical care prior to '09, or were the recipient of the US taxpayers' largess, you are fooling yourself.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/27/5/w399.full

So, please, don't try to tell me that it is affecting me any more than it was before the ACA was passed. 
And even if it were, so what?
That people in this nation have the added dignity of a health insurance card rather than feeling like beggars when they get sick, that people can go to the doctor for an annual check up, that people can go to a trauma center when they are injured and not feel like the dregs of the earth are worth supporting their health care. 
You can disagree about those who have helping out those who don't have, that is fine. That is a philosophical difference. 
To claim that there are roadblocks to care that are just not there is intellectually dishonest.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> Isn't this Chit-Chat where we can bring up any subject?


It sure is, be prepared to get whacked if it is controversial.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Right now the fine is NON-EXISTENT. It has not been implemented yet.]
> Not entirely true
> 
> The penalty in 2014 and beyond
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jayne6666 said:


> yeah! yes yes yes!!
> i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
> and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
> only fox news and people who have NO respect for our President think it is horrible,
> ...


That's at least 2 people who have been able to schedule surgeries just on KP.


----------



## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> If you are elderly your care has NOTHING to do with ACA.


Does Obamacare affect seniors at all?

On some fronts, yes, it does. Preventive benefits under Medicare  like cancer screenings and wellness visits  are being expanded under of the Affordable Care Act. Higher-income seniors are paying more for prescription drug coverage, though the majority of Medicare beneficiaries are paying less.

The law does cut some Medicare funding, about $700 billion over ten years. Those cuts are to payments from Medicare to healthcare providers, which experts say may impact the system down the road.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kammyv4 said:


> I am glad that it is making some of your lives easier. However, those of us that are working and have insurance through our employers are paying more in premiums and higher copays and deductibles. The reason we are paying more is to cover the "free" services provided by the ACA. The insurance company needs to find the money somewhere, so their reasoning is to take it from the current plans they have. I have also had working friends that pay for their insurance and their policies were just discontinued so that they could purchase a higher deductible/copay plan. They didn't qualify for Obamacare. My point is it doesn't work if your income is above a certain level, you just end up paying more for less.


Your statement is an indictment of the greed of the insurance companies, not ACA.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> Your statement is an indictment of the greed of the insurance companies, not ACA.


To some degree true. Insurance companies are trying to push a tax imposed upon them onto their rate payers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-02-12/obamacare-raises-medicaid-cost-as-insurers-shift-tax-bill.html


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Do you have stats on that?


A simple google search provided many, many articles addressing just that. Give it a try. The future looks pretty bleak. NY Post states that 23% out of 409 doctors queried are going to accept ACA patients and many are opting out of taking any kind of insurance. Another article states that 60% of 13,000 doctors surveyed would retire now if they could due to the abysmal reimbursement rates. So, you may have coverage but good luck finding a doctor who will accept it or finding a doctor at all.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Your statement is an indictment of the greed of the insurance companies, not ACA.


Kammy is only speaking of her insurance and maybe some anecdotal pieces.

My health care insurance (I repeat myself here) went up $60. for the year and the additional coverage more than makes up for that increase.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have been subsidizing health care for others since I started working and paying taxes at 15 yo.
> If you don't think that you were paying for others to get medical care prior to '09, or were the recipient of the US taxpayers' largess, you are fooling yourself.
> 
> http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/industries/insurance/2009-05-28-hiddentax_N.htm
> ...


So if it was broke why not fix it. Are you saying ACA has fixed your subsidizing others.

There never were roadblocks before. Just lazy people. Just like now. Too lazy to even sign up for the bennies they had before.

We have a local convenience store. They sell gas the cheapest in town. Cheaper than anyone else. And if you get their card ( NOT A CC) and sign up you can get 10 cents off a gallon. I see all the clunkers gassing up at the other stations and the nice SUV's gassing up at the convenience store. Funny how that works.

How many dead people have you seen recently in the streets of America?

As for the government running things. They've done such a great job. What with the WAR ON DRUGS. We have a great heroin problem in this country. The WAR ON POVERTY. Yeah we don't have bed bugs, broken windows, and asthma causing mold in ANY of the projects right beside the affluent in NYC. NOT in America. And what about that great public service called The UNITED STATES POST OFFICE. They are well managed and profitable aren't they?

As far as begging goes I guess you've never been to your local ER. Do you know some of the beggar's in the USA make a great living. LOL Who's un-informed?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> A simple google search provided many, many articles addressing just that. Give it a try. The future looks pretty bleak. NY Post states that 23% out of 409 doctors queried are going to accept ACA patients and many are opting out of taking any kind of insurance. Another article states that 60% of 13,000 doctors surveyed would retire now if they could due to the abysmal reimbursement rates. So, you may have coverage but good luck finding a doctor who will accept it or finding a doctor at all.


I, thumper, provide data when I make claims, I expect to be able to ask people who make their own claims to back them up. 
I am not sure where you pulled that info from, I have seen the same data except that there was no definitive reason given for wanting to leave. If I recall many were leaving private practice to go to work (or to form) for corporations. That is hardly the same thing as leaving the field.

Here's your 60% of the 13K article from "The Washington Times". We will just have to wait and see of those opthamologists would really rather stop working than fulfil safety requirements. 
That is who that 60% is about, correct? 
Opthamologists? Is coverage for eye care required in health insurance now? 
Why yes, it is. And why is that?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I, thumper, provide data when I make claims, I expect to be able to ask people who make their own claims to back them up.
> I am not sure where you pulled that info from, I have seen the same data except that there was no definitive reason given for wanting to leave. If I recall many were leaving private practice to go to work (or to form) for corporations. That is hardly the same thing as leaving the field.


So if I want care I have to go to my local IBM factory?


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## lovey (Nov 11, 2011)

YAY!!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Many doctors in NYC are refusing insurance including medicare. It is not worth it on their parts since they cannot make the same amount of money off these patients. They now provide concierge service where you pay an additional annual fee just for the privilege to see and be billed by these doctors. Psychologists were the first to jump ship. And this all happened before the care act. GREED.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

jayne6666 wrote:
yeah! yes yes yes!!
i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
only fox news and people who have NO respect for our President think it is horrible, 
and the absolute lies they spin! wow.
big insurance companies have a huge lobby in washington, and they are so angry about the ACA.
but,
i can get my shoulder fixed now.....ah
to be pain free!!!

wonderful.


And I will be living in pain as, my health care costs have gone up and my husband's drug prescriptions have gone from 4-6$ to 30-50$ each. I can't afford to go to have my foot looked at.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> So if I want care I have to go to my local IBM factory?


I don't know about your local IBM factory, but, if you want to communicate with me you need to stop thinking that this type of comment is cute and actually bring something to the table.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> jayne6666 wrote:
> yeah! yes yes yes!!
> i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
> and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
> ...


That is a choice. You are already paying for the health insurance. Pay your co-pay and go to the doctor.
I went to the podiatrist because I was having pain in my foot, the man explained that I had the equivalent of a compressed back disc in the joint and made up a couple of pads for me. Voila! all better.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not voting is not 'stupid.' It is wasting an important right many people have given their lives for.

It is also the only direct way citizens can hope to affect the government. And you forfeit the right to complain.

I wouldn't say it's stupid. I would say it's short sighted.



kneonknitter said:


> Since I am a stupid American because I choose not to vote & you do vote, therefore, making you much smarter than I, it's best that I leave this conversation before I get even stupider than I already am & start saying some really stupid things.
> Bye.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're wrong. General Chit Chat session is open to all discussion. If you prefer not to participate, don't. Easy peasy.



Geeks Crotchet said:


> I am happy it is working for you. However, for millions of other people it is not working., and I do not appreciate your using this site to talk about Obamacare or any politics. This is not what this site is all about.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please explain the situation.



grandmatimestwo said:


> Glad it's working for you! I have to pay ridiculous premiums for my health insurance and they get higher every year. Pretty soon I will be paying to work!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> You're wrong. General Chit Chat session is open to all discussion. If you prefer not to participate, don't. Easy peasy.


What do crotchety ol' geeks know?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I don't know about your local IBM factory, but, if you want to communicate with me you need to stop thinking that this type of comment is cute and actually bring something to the table.


I'm right behind you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> What do crotchety ol' geeks know?


Was that remark intended to be cute?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you don't wish to participate, don't. Others feel differently.



Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


General Chit Chat allows for political discussion. Of course, you not have to participate: there are many other topics on this site to chose from. It is not fair of you to try and censor so many others because you don't like the issue.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I completely understand what you're saying,....Gal from ND......


Montana Gramma said:


> Where will we go when the Dr. Offices will not accept Medicare pts. due to small re-imbursments? In large cities maybe not a problem but rural areas are stuck or drive many miles. Our plan requires us to budget $750 a month for premiums, drug plan, co-pays, deductibles and travel. That is including the premium taken out of SS. What may be left over will go in the fund for the next year and so on as prices are just going to go up as projected 15-30% a year. Because we have worked hard and acquired assets we are penalized. Would be cheaper if we were not a so called middle class family. I see everyday young people losing that dream because they do not want to work for those who don't. Don't not can't , they are different. We give and then give some more to help others but that will change when taxes go up and we lose that option. Well, as soap box is so high, I will now try to climb down carefully so as to not break a leg.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

flohel said:


> Thank you for an honest report on Affordable care act. Yes the states who opted out from the medicaid expansion really hurt their most susceptible citizens. Sad they had to play politics instead what they were hired to do in the best interest of the citizens .


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## suekadkins (Jan 25, 2011)

This site does not need any conversation about our disaster of a president and his disastrous health care bill. I guess if it works for the person who sent the first post, that is all that matters to her. It certainly isn't working for millions and the fall out has just begun. Please, please keep this site for other things instead of politics. I thought this was the one place I wouldn't have to deal with Obama!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


To the tune of $800 million. With a state of only 1.3 million. Yeah that was baaaaaaaaad of our governor. What was he thinking not wasting our hard earned money?


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## BonnieJean (Mar 10, 2012)

NO COMMENT


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## doglady (Nov 12, 2013)

All my daughter can get is Medicaid. What she had was better and she liked it but despite Mr. Obama's LIE she could not keep it. Thank you Mr. President, she was better off before you HELPED her!!!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

suekadkins said:


> This site does not need any conversation about our disaster of a president and his disastrous health care bill. I guess if it works for the person who sent the first post, that is all that matters to her. It certainly isn't working for millions and the fall out has just begun. Please, please keep this site for other things instead of politics. I thought this was the one place I wouldn't have to deal with Obama!


You don't have to. Just don't come to this section. Easy peasy.


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## craftygac (Dec 6, 2013)

Lets see now I use to pay ten dollars for my prescription. My insurance shut me down had to buy another. Now I pay $243 for the same drug with the help of obamacare. I don't think so. It gave the insurance companies the right to drop you and you had to resign up. Mass had a great insurance program that the increases in premiums were finally not outrageous can't say that now. My small little asthma container went from $10 dollars to $49.00 so I can't say it is working for me either. If you are not working or on limited income and you never had insurance it might be good for someone but for those of us that have worked hard and I might add still work at 71 it is not working.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Many are. Especially in rural areas. Many will have to travel long distances to get care.


Excuse me, but hasn't that always been the case? That's what you get when you live in a rural area........longer distances for services. How does that become an issue of ACA?

You seem to be one of the people who blame everything on........ Bye bye.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

craftygac said:


> Lets see now I use to pay ten dollars for my prescription. My insurance shut me down had to buy another. Now I pay $243 for the same drug with the help of obamacare. I don't think so. It gave the insurance companies the right to drop you and you had to resign up. Mass had a great insurance program that the increases in premiums were finally not outrageous can't say that now. My small little asthma container went from $10 dollars to $49.00 so I can't say it is working for me either. If you are not working or on limited income and you never had insurance it might be good for someone but for those of us that have worked hard and I might add still work at 71 it is not working.


Thank you for the "rest of the story". Just because someONE is happy doesn't mean everyONE is happy.


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## TapestryArtist (Sep 4, 2013)

It was a bit of information. Sooooooooo I was addressing everyone. I just keep a cool head and read.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Generally speaking, you're right. It has become a great brouhaha. The USA has been paying vast and ever-increasing amounts for health care with ever-decreasing quality. It is complicated by the fact that one political party, (GOP, Republican Party) have taken an obstructionist role.

If you have more questions, please ask.



Liz at Furze said:


> It's a really good way for those of us in different countries to see other ways of doing things. I still am not sure whether 'Obamacare' is similar to our National Health Service. It seems to be a cross between the NHS and private health insurance. Am I right?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Excuse me, but hasn't that always been the case? That's what you get when you live in a rural area........longer distances for services. How does that become an issue of ACA?
> 
> You seem to be one of the people who blame everything on........ Bye bye.


CYA. The people in rural areas got care before. 
That's the crux of the matter. Are you denying people their land, their way of life, their heritage. Their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like GOP lies and rumor. Dig more. Avoid conservative blogs.



norma j mcguire said:


> Good for you. You are the first I have heard that has it working. What news do you listen too? They said 3,000 signed up, but when they try to use it , it says no coverage.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Generally speaking, you're right. It has become a great brouhaha. The USA has been paying vast and ever-increasing amounts for health care with ever-decreasing quality. It is complicated by the fact that one political party, (GOP, Republican Party) have taken an obstructionist role.
> 
> If you have more questions, please ask.


Name me a top cancer care center in Canada, England or Germany? I'd go to Sloane Kettering myself.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Remember his chimp friend Bonzo?



WindingRoad said:


> Remember: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
> Ronald Reagan


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## Gmfur (Oct 29, 2011)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sounds like GOP lies and rumor. Dig more. Avoid conservative blogs.


Now, why if this was a GOP initiative years ago would the GOP be so against it. I don't believe you can have it both ways.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

I am torn between laughing and screaming at these conversations. No one bothers to note the ACA was modeled on Mitt Romney's State plan in Massachussetts. So when the Repugs carry on with their hysteria and attacks, it is laughable.

Next that makes me want to scream is the core value system that so many express. We all pay taxes and we all benefit from contributing. Years ago I needed to get Social Service help. I was in a position where I had to tell a snotty case worker that every time I bought toilet paper my tax dollars went to pay her salary. If she was a sole earner in her family, she was only a couple of pay checks away from my side of the desk. I can't believe the cruel judgements that some people make--especially over situations that they clearly have no real knowledge.

Last, let me point out that the main problem with the ACA is that is NOT ABOUT HEALTH! The ACA is about forcing people who would use their discretionary monies for holisitc health care to use that money on the medical industry--both the insurance end and the chemical end of it.
So it people want to rail against greed, I wish they would focus their anger on the few % at the top of the heap and not those who suffer from the greed and power of the wealthy!

Personally, I hate the idea that I am forced to buy a private corporation's product. If I did that my health would severely suffer as my limited funds that buy organic foods and high quality supplements would be eaten up by these corporate thieves, many of whom believe in eugenics.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

doglady said:


> All my daughter can get is Medicaid. What she had was better and she liked it but despite Mr. Obama's LIE she could not keep it. Thank you Mr. President, she was better off before you HELPED her!!!


Could you be more specific? What is it that she doesn't like about blood work that's free, mammograms that are free, contraceptives that are free?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bullfeathers. They are building large new facilities to serve more patients. Some doctors will retire. New ones will gladly take their place with training and technology to make it profitable.

How do you think your doctor keeps records now? Probably in old-fashioned manilla folders......not shared in a computer networked system.



Torticollus said:


> It is one thing to be signed up and say you have medical insurance and another to see the accessibility, choices, quality and promptness of care you will receive. Doctors are not happy. They worked hard to get through medical school and are only being reimbursed pennies on the dollar. Many are dropping out.


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## suekadkins (Jan 25, 2011)

You are right. I learned my lesson!!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I am torn between laughing and screaming at these conversations. No one bothers to note the ACA was modeled on Mitt Romney's State plan in Massachussetts. So when the Repugs carry on with their hysteria and attacks, it is laughable.
> 
> Next that makes me want to scream is the core value system that so many express. We all pay taxes and we all benefit from contributing. Years ago I needed to get Social Service help. I was in a position where I had to tell a snotty case worker that every time I bought toilet paper my tax dollars went to pay her salary. If she was a sole earner in her family, she was only a couple of pay checks away from my side of the desk. I can't believe the cruel judgements that some people make--especially over situations that they clearly have no real knowledge.
> 
> ...


So don't buy the health care plan and when they finally institute the fine, have them take your tiny little fine out of your refund.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.



Liz at Furze said:


> Thanks Janet Cooke. Chit Chat is a great part of this site. It's a way of 'meeting' people and seeing so many different perspectives. It also breaks down so many preconceptions about our different national identities...and a great place for knitting too lol.
> Thanks to all for the insights.


----------



## craftygac (Dec 6, 2013)

I agree this is not a site for this - I tried to resist not reading this when I saw the title Obama care but I was hopeful that it was good news or a change I didn't know about. Obviously I was wrong - again those that didn't work, unemployed, immigrants are happy. Those that work and have had insurance the same one for years are not. My last word on this I promise. Think I will cool it for a while from kp until the furry over this article quiets down.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for sharing. Your question is a good one.



gramjo said:


> Health care....I could write a book on our experiences in this house. I will limit myself to saying how varied care can be. My husband was very ill and we left our home state (where medical facilities are supposedly top-notch) and went to Rochester MN...Mayo Clinic. A world of difference. Nine months of tests at home, still no actual diagnosis. Within 12 hours of arriving there we had a diagnosis. Big things and little things...volunteers push a library cart from room to room...they come and will change the artwork in your room to something you like. When you have a test they actually take you straight in to the test...no sitting in a waiting room .......doctors who are teamed up to suit your needs.....someone in the hospital at all times from your team. Incredible patient care. And in the end the bills were less than the ones from our home state. Why can't this level of care be universal?????


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

That's right Put your head in the sand and don't pay attention to those conservative blogs.. Does it raise your eyebrows if you hear that our president got the award for being the biggest liar of the Year?? of course you probably don't know that as you have only followed the mainstream media. That dreaded Fox News for bringing out the truth. Don't listen to Fox News----It might make you feel just a little uncomforable.


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I feel I need to be a bit more specific of my support of Montana Gramma. As I live in ND, a Republican state, which IS expanding it's Medicaid, support MG in her statement as to living in a rural area, and needing to travel to see their Dr. All of the upper Midwest is a rural area. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or haven't, or what your insurance status, you will still need to travel if you need to see a specialist about a medical prob. 

If we have chosen to live in a rural area, the rest of the US should be thankful we did. Or you wouldn't be able to go to your local grocery store and buy your milk, bread, or any other food product for that matter. So in case some aren't clear on this fact. Milk does not come from the store, it comes from the cow that the farmer in Montana or ND milked. The bread doesn't come from the store, it came from the field of wheat, the farmer plowed, planted & harvested. If not for the rural people, a lot of people would starve to death. As being from a farming state I took offense at Damemary's flippant remark about those who live in rural areas. Just saying.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IF this were the Republican's real #1 concern, wouldn't they look at making sure everyone pays their fare share of taxes contributing to revenue?



nuclearfinz said:


> Actually the whole problem is PAYING for Obamacare. Currently the federal debt is 16 Trillion dollars and rising. The Republicans opposed Obamacare because there was no money to pay for it,


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel that there is a 'rest of the story here.' NH and FL perhaps?



Nancyn said:


> I am an independent seeker and even though I qualify for a subsidy, it didn't help. I am now forced to buy insurance at a higher rate without a lot of options. If I choose to forgo insurance, I will be penalized. If it truly was a competitive market and all companies allowed to offer services, I think you would see some changes. When you see what an individual pays for the same procedures that insurance companies get, you would be shocked. Thousands in difference. Just look at any of your bills. I was hopingthat with all the new regulations, I would be able to purchase at a group rate. Needless to say, it did not happen.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I feel I need to be a bit more specific of my support of Montana Gramma. As I live in ND, a Republican state, which IS expanding it's Medicaid, support MG in her statement as to living in a rural area, and needing to travel to see their Dr. All of the upper Midwest is a rural area. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or haven't, or what your insurance status, you will still need to travel if you need to see a specialist about a medical prob.
> 
> If we have chosen to live in a rural area, the rest of the US should be thankful we did. Or you wouldn't be able to go to your local grocery store and buy your milk, bread, or any other food product for that matter. So in case some aren't clear on this fact. Milk does not come from the store, it comes from the cow that the farmer in Montana or ND milked. The bread doesn't come from the store, it came from the field of wheat, the farmer plowed, planted & harvested. If not for the rural people, a lot of people would starve to death. As being from a farming state I took offense at Damemary's flippant remark about those who live in rural areas. Just saying.


The thing is that there is care in rural areas but the ACA won't cover that care thus the long distances to travel.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> IF this were the Republican's real #1 concern, wouldn't they look at making sure everyone pays their fare share of taxes contributing to revenue?


How would you get your fair share from those who won't work and use the system over and over and over.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wave the Maple Leaf flag. You've earned it.



kiwifrau said:


> Phew! 9 pages so far on this topic. All interesting comments, I feel for you all.
> 
> For years, all I remembered hearing was how many in the US had to go bankrupt if they didn't have medical insurance. How appalling!
> 
> ...


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Fox News is full of sick puppies.....Rush Limbaugh for one. How can anyone take seriously a news station who would hire someone with is track record? Nope, can't do it....


jvoel said:


> That's right Put your head in the sand and don't pay attention to those conservative blogs.. Does it raise your eyebrows if you hear that our president got the award for being the biggest liar of the Year?? of course you probably don't know that as you have only followed the mainstream media. That dreaded Fox News for bringing out the truth. Don't listen to Fox News----It might make you feel just a little uncomforable.


----------



## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

Narrow networks do not include any of the best hospitals and the ACA payments are so low many of the best doctors will not participate so no it's not working for anyone except the insurance companies who hiked up our premiums 25%.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

dianecamp2313 said:


> Narrow networks do not include any of the best hospitals and the ACA payments are so low many of the best doctors will not participate so no it's not working for anyone except the insurance companies who hiked up our premiums 25%.


That's America for ya.


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## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

Do you consider the 48% who pay zero taxes fair? Or do you have an issue with the financially successful who pay 60% of what they earn as paying too little?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I understand what you're saying, and can't argue with you on that point, as I haven't had to go to ACA for insurance. I was just responding to the notion that we who live in the rural community's could just up and leave if we don't like it. It was a flippant remark on Damemary's part, which I took exception to.


WindingRoad said:


> The thing is that there is care in rural areas but the ACA won't cover that care thus the long distances to travel.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

dianecamp2313 said:


> Narrow networks do not include any of the best hospitals and the ACA payments are so low many of the best doctors will not participate so no it's not working for anyone except the insurance companies who hiked up our premiums 25%.


Who do you think lobbied this bill the heaviest?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I understand what you're saying, and can't argue with you on that point, as I haven't had to go to ACA for insurance. I was just responding to the notion that we who live in the rural community's could just up and leave if we don't like it. It was a flippant remark on Damemary's part, which I took exception to.


And so did I. Sorta like telling people to eat cake.


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## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

Don't credit all the lies to the GOP when the President is constantly lying. You can keep you insurance you can keep your doctor. He lied again and again before the election knowing what he said was a lie.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> That's America for ya.


"I'm from the government..........


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

dianecamp2313 said:


> Don't credit all the lies to the GOP when the President is constantly lying. You can keep you insurance you can keep your doctor. He lied again and again before the election knowing what he said was a lie.


Isn't that part of the job description to be a good liar? Certainly no one matches Bush the Younger and the countless deaths he caused with his lies. ACA is certainly more benign than the war in Iraq.


----------



## MacRae (Dec 3, 2011)

Speaking only on the insurance issue: I am self employed and pay through the nose to the tune of over $500 a month just for me. I was able to get insurance through a carrier here is South Carolina because of "The Affordable Healthcare Act". The interesting thing is, that this carrier is a coop, which turns any of its profits back to lower insurance for its members. What a novel and great idea! I have better coverage than with my previous carrier who had monopolized the insurance arena here in this state for years.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

craftygac said:


> I agree this is not a site for this - I tried to resist not reading this when I saw the title Obama care but I was hopeful that it was good news or a change I didn't know about. Obviously I was wrong - again those that didn't work, unemployed, immigrants are happy. Those that work and have had insurance the same one for years are not. My last word on this I promise. Think I will cool it for a while from kp until the furry over this article quiets down.


Yes, I can see your point. 
There was no mention here at all of people who have been living with medical conditions who can now get care. There was no mention of people having doctor's appts that they couldn't have before. 
There was no mention of people saving money and no interesting byplay.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I am torn between laughing and screaming at these conversations. No one bothers to note the ACA was modeled on Mitt Romney's State plan in Massachussetts. So when the Repugs carry on with their hysteria and attacks, it is laughable.
> 
> Next that makes me want to scream is the core value system that so many express. We all pay taxes and we all benefit from contributing. Years ago I needed to get Social Service help. I was in a position where I had to tell a snotty case worker that every time I bought toilet paper my tax dollars went to pay her salary. If she was a sole earner in her family, she was only a couple of pay checks away from my side of the desk. I can't believe the cruel judgements that some people make--especially over situations that they clearly have no real knowledge.
> 
> ...


You are so right. This bill has NO THING to do with AFFORDABLE CARE and not much to do with affordable insurance either for that matter.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

MacRae said:


> Speaking only on the insurance issue: I am self employed and pay through the nose to the tune of over $500 a month just for me. I was able to get insurance through a carrier here is South Carolina because of "The Affordable Healthcare Act". The interesting thing is, that this carrier is a coop, which turns any of its profits back to lower insurance for its members. What a novel and great idea! I have better coverage than with my previous carrier who had monopolized the insurance arena here in this state for years.


Glad to hear it, we need to hear more of these good results. 
I am guessing that you are not the only person in this co-op. 
Happy knitting.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Bullfeathers. They are building large new facilities to serve more patients. Some doctors will retire. New ones will gladly take their place with training and technology to make it profitable.
> 
> How do you think your doctor keeps records now? Probably in old-fashioned manilla folders......not shared in a computer networked system.


You'd be very wrong about your last statement.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> Isn't that part of the job description to be a good liar? Certainly no one matches Bush the Younger and the countless deaths he caused with his lies. ACA is certainly more benign than the war in Iraq.


LOL, Bush43 had a great teacher, don't forget his dad came up through the CIA.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Obviously, this Heath-Care thing was not well thought out. Maybe few people benefit but a lot of us have problems with the new system. If my husband and I were paid by the hour for all the time we have wasted on our phones and computers trying to get our rather simple cases straightened out, we'd have a problem carrying the money to the bank. How do poor people without much education get along in this world? 

We did what we thought was right over the years -- saved for the future, did without the usual luxuries (even, some "necessities"), drove older cars, ate home-cooked meals, kept a garden, made a lot of the kids' clothes, etc. We are fairly comfortable in our old age but then we have not had any major set-backs, yet. We can still keep up with most of our needs and hire help once in a while. We recently did some remodeling and installed some features for handicapped living, hoping we can stay in our home as long as possible. 

Was all of this a waste? We hoped to leave something for our children who also sacrificed when they were growing up(and, still do live simple lives). Now, it seems that we are paying for the others who thought they had to "have it all" while we led a conservative life-style. What were they thinking? Why are they so deserving? Some really need assistance no matter how hard they tried, and I'm willing to help, but others brought "this" on themselves and I'm not particularly sympathetic, especially when I'm forced to pay for their mistakes. 

Doesn't anyone understand?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

MacRae said:


> Speaking only on the insurance issue: I am self employed and pay through the nose to the tune of over $500 a month just for me. I was able to get insurance through a carrier here is South Carolina because of "The Affordable Healthcare Act". The interesting thing is, that this carrier is a coop, which turns any of its profits back to lower insurance for its members. What a novel and great idea! I have better coverage than with my previous carrier who had monopolized the insurance arena here in this state for years.


How much have you gotten back so far? Talk is cheap. A lot of people have been promised a lot of things and they've never gotten them.

How can this company turn profits back to you when we all know that health care is too expensive in this country? Can't have it both ways. If they have profits they are charging you too much to begin with.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I feel I need to be a bit more specific of my support of Montana Gramma. As I live in ND, a Republican state, which IS expanding it's Medicaid, support MG in her statement as to living in a rural area, and needing to travel to see their Dr. All of the upper Midwest is a rural area. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or haven't, or what your insurance status, you will still need to travel if you need to see a specialist about a medical prob.
> 
> If we have chosen to live in a rural area, the rest of the US should be thankful we did. Or you wouldn't be able to go to your local grocery store and buy your milk, bread, or any other food product for that matter. So in case some aren't clear on this fact. Milk does not come from the store, it comes from the cow that the farmer in Montana or ND milked. The bread doesn't come from the store, it came from the field of wheat, the farmer plowed, planted & harvested. If not for the rural people, a lot of people would starve to death. As being from a farming state I took offense at Damemary's flippant remark about those who live in rural areas. Just saying.


You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts. 
People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh NO!!! Someone in the government lied???? Who thought that could ever happen??? They all lie.....lots to choose from. But be fair about it. You can't blame one side without blaming the other as well. So that's a moot point. Again, and again and again.....etc


dianecamp2313 said:


> Don't credit all the lies to the GOP when the President is constantly lying. You can keep you insurance you can keep your doctor. He lied again and again before the election knowing what he said was a lie.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts.
> People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


Would that be BOSTON Massachusetts? I didn't know they have cows in BOSTON.

Yes they did/do live in rural areas. There is care there for them.There was care there before ACA. Now ACA says they have to go further away to get care. What part of that don't you get?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts.
> People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


Where are they growing wheat in Massachusetts? Tell me.


----------



## Geeks Crotchet (Apr 3, 2013)

Boy, do I agree with you. Stop it, stop it, stop it. We get enough of this through the news media.


----------



## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

I guess you are unaware that military deaths have increased greatly under Obama--saw the stats just yesterday. He has managed to loose 2 wars we were winning and increased military casualities. 
Pour yourself another glass of liberal koolade...


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## Bea 465 (Mar 27, 2011)

Recent article in our local paper indicates the Hispanics in California are paying more for insurance through Obamacare (which they can't afford) and also are unable to go to their regular doctors because their doctors are not part of the health plan.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Geeks Crotchet said:


> Boy, do I agree with you. Stop it, stop it, stop it. We get enough of this through the news media.


Don't come to this section. How hard is that?


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## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

Came up thru the CIA? He was Director for 1 year under Ford. You clearly don't know his history.


----------



## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Elder Ellen said:


> Obviously, this Heath-Care thing was not well thought out. Maybe few people benefit but a lot of us have problems with the new system. If my husband and I were paid by the hour for all the time we have wasted on our phones and computers trying to get our rather simple cases straightened out, we'd have a problem carrying the money to the bank. How do poor people without much education get along in this world?
> 
> We did what we thought was right over the years -- saved for the future, did without the usual luxuries (even, some "necessities"), drove older cars, ate home-cooked meals, kept a garden, made a lot of the kids' clothes, etc. We are fairly comfortable in our old age but then we have not had any major set-backs, yet. We can still keep up with most of our needs and hire help once in a while. We recently did some remodeling and installed some features for handicapped living, hoping we can stay in our home as long as possible.
> 
> ...


We must have been raised by the same kind of parents! It was always, "paddle your own canoe and you make your own choices". Well that is slowly being eroded, people are becoming quite comfortable to let someone else solve their troubles and sponge. How did a whole nation start switching from self respect to entitlement? We drove old vehicles, rarely ate out, worked extra jobs etc. etc. and because we did without we now have the expected pleasure of treating slackers to what they do not even have the courtesy to say is a handout. A hand up is in some cases is rebuffed. Some do not even want to pay back their student loans and the American tax payer subsidizes that too! How do they sleep? I do notice a lot of the younger parents are doing a good job in teaching the children to become good citizens. They have to. When our generation is gone, there will be no solid base left to carry on with their freebies. A society of part timers cannot carry the burden. The fall is going to pinch a lot worse than what we gave up to be independent and they will not know how to cope. Sure hope their health plan allows for a lot of counseling on poor pitiful me.


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## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Is Rush hired by FOX You are not informed very well!!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is a choice. You are already paying for the health insurance. Pay your co-pay and go to the doctor.
> I went to the podiatrist because I was having pain in my foot, the man explained that I had the equivalent of a compressed back disc in the joint and made up a couple of pads for me. Voila! all better.


Not much of a choice if I have no money for the deductable. Un like out government, I dont get to get something and expect someone else to pay for it.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Not much of a choice if I have no money for the deductable. Un like out government, I dont get to get something and expect someone else to pay for it.


Can't you just print some money? Oh wait I guess you can't.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts.
> People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


If you live in Massachusetts and get your milk locally, that's fine, but people who live in other parts of this country also drink milk. Where do you suppose theirs comes from? It all comes from farms, and farms are generally located in rural areas. The less distance it has to be transported, the better it is for all concerned. People who live in "the boonies" are a lot more self sufficent than the "city slickers" who depend upon them. If we all lived in Northeastern cities we wouldn't last long. Why do you suppose people moved Westward when they were crowded out of the East? To each his own, but city folks usually appear quite helpless to rural Americans. Really, where would one be without the other?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Can't you just print some money? Oh wait I guess you can't.


 :lol:


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Elder Ellen said:


> If you live in Massachusetts and get your milk locally, that's fine, but people who live in other parts of this country also drink milk. Where do you suppose theirs comes from? It all comes from farms, and farms are generally located in rural areas. The less distance it has to be transported, the better it is for all concerned. People who live in "the boonies" are a lot more self sufficent than the "city slickers" who depend upon them. If we all lived in Northeastern cities we wouldn't last long. Why do you suppose people moved Westward when they were crowded out of the East? To each his own, but city folks usually appear quite helpless to rural Americans. Really, where would one be without the other?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> If you live in Massachusetts and get your milk locally, that's fine, but people who live in other parts of this country also drink milk. Where do you suppose theirs comes from? It all comes from farms, and farms are generally located in rural areas. The less distance it has to be transported, the better it is for all concerned. People who live in "the boonies" are a lot more self sufficent than the "city slickers" who depend upon them. If we all lived in Northeastern cities we wouldn't last long. Why do you suppose people moved Westward when they were crowded out of the East? To each his own, but city folks usually appear quite helpless to rural Americans. Really, where would one be without the other?


Well, I still wanna know where they grow wheat in Massachusetts? Wonder when I'll find out?


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts.
> People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


And your Ma. cows eat the wheat and corn and oats that the farmer raises. The 30 s should be a lesson to all urban or rural. Big growers in all states are still farmers, when it frosts the orange juice goes up in price. When bugs and blight kill crops and there is a shortage,remember not everyone has the chance to grow a garden, then do you buy health care or more expensive groceries. Some people have to make that choice. Your way if life hinges on the farmer , I am a product of that lifestyle . If we do not grow it, organic or not , you do not eat or drink it and then no one will have to worry about healthcare, rural or not. City access does not mean cheap travel to the health center either, a taxi, city transit or private car are not cheap when there is no independence.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I will, thank you for your permission. Yes, you mustn't eat bread at all, as your state doesn't produce any wheat. Or much of anything else for that matter. But I'll bet your stores all carry bread made from wheat grown in rural areas. So, it looks like you need rural food producers after all. 
At this point, ND is not using GMO to alter their wheat. Soybeans yes, but not wheat.

But lookie here,
Aqua Bounty is based in Waltham, Massachusetts. They develop improved fish for aquaculture, and are close to obtaining approval for the first biotech animal for food production: fast growing salmon.

Oh-oh.......Be careful those of you who like your seafood. Looks like Massachusetts is attempting to use GMO to produce fast growing salmon.

Aren't you the hypocrite?



Janet Cooke said:


> You can take offense at anything you want. The fact is that those of us who shop locally don't need your rural produced wheat that is causing allergies galore, we don't need your GMO products at all. My milk comes from Massachusetts.
> People choose to live out in the boonies and that was the case both before and after the ACA was passed into law.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Where are they growing wheat in Massachusetts? Tell me.


I didn't say wheat, I don't eat wheat. Didn't you just read my post that I consider it the next best thing to poison in the US? It creates allergies. And then, oh horrors, you have to get involved with the medical community. You know. Those people you have to drive a whole hour to see. Unless you head toward NH then it is a half hour.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

:thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I didn't say wheat, I don't eat wheat. Didn't you just read my post that I consider it the next best thing to poison in the US? It creates allergies. And then, oh horrors, you have to get involved with the medical community. You know. Those people you have to drive a whole hour to see. Unless you head toward NH then it is a half hour.


But, but but Boston has cows. I don't have to get involved with the medical community any more that you do.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Oh? Which two wars did President Obama start? I must have missed the news that day.


dianecamp2313 said:


> I guess you are unaware that military deaths have increased greatly under Obama--saw the stats just yesterday. He has managed to loose 2 wars we were winning and increased military casualities.
> Pour yourself another glass of liberal koolade...


----------



## Nancyn (Mar 23, 2013)

Have you ever heard of the Western part of Mass? there are farms all over the state. Let's stop with the bickering over semantics. one of the problems with Obamcare is the fact that it is being forced on us and most people do not like change. the reforms that have been implemented, such as, no charge for mammograms, checkups, etc. Are wonderful. The no more limit on insurance or the no more pre existing conditions are one of the best things to happen. too many people were denied by greedy insurance execs. these type of things needed to be implemented. As fat as setting up this whole website for care is just a mess and I for one don't think it did much good. I still think open all companies across the lines and let people shop for the best deal. hen we will see some competition. Let everyone get their healthcare deducted off of their taxes.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Oh? Which two wars did President Obama start? I must have missed the news that day.


He didn't vote against them now did he. You do know he was in Congress at one time. I make that statement TIC.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nancyn said:


> Have you ever heard of the Western part of Mass? there are farms all over the state. Let's stop with the bickering over semantics. one of the problems with Obamcare is the fact that it is being forced on us and most people do not like change. the reforms that have been implemented, such as, no charge for mammograms, checkups, etc. Are wonderful. The no more limit on insurance or the no more pre existing conditions are one of the best things to happen. too many people were denied by greedy insurance execs. these type of things needed to be implemented. As fat as setting up this whole website for care is just a mess and I for one don't think it did much good. I still think open all companies across the lines and let people shop for the best deal. hen we will see some competition. Let everyone get their healthcare deducted off of their taxes.


I've never paid a dime for a mammogram. I'm 62. BTW you can get a physical at Sam's Club with your memembership.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

But he didn't put them up for a vote either did he??? Who did? Hmmm.....


WindingRoad said:


> He didn't vote against them now did he. You do know he was in Congress at one time. I make that statement TIC.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> But he didn't put them up for a vote either did he??? Who did? Hmmm.....


Did you really think he was gonna introduce every piece of legislation?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

That didn't answer my question did it? How long will he be blamed for the wars Bush started? 


WindingRoad said:


> Did you really think he was gonna introduce every piece of legislation?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> That didn't answer my question did it? How long will he be blamed for the wars Bush started?


As long as we want to blame him. Any other questions?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I didn't say wheat, I don't eat wheat. Didn't you just read my post that I consider it the next best thing to poison in the US? It creates allergies. And then, oh horrors, you have to get involved with the medical community. You know. Those people you have to drive a whole hour to see. Unless you head toward NH then it is a half hour.


You must be starving.

http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Nussa said:


> I will, thank you for your permission. Yes, you mustn't eat bread at all, as your state doesn't produce any wheat. Or much of anything else for that matter. But I'll bet your stores all carry bread made from wheat grown in rural areas. So, it looks like you need rural food producers after all.
> At this point, ND is not using GMO to alter their wheat. Soybeans yes, but not wheat.
> 
> But lookie here,
> ...


Here's her diet.
http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/

Probably lack of nutrients to the brain.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Well, I still wanna know where they grow wheat in Massachusetts? Wonder when I'll find out?


http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2008/0613/p04s02-usec.html


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## TapestryArtist (Sep 4, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> You must be starving.
> 
> http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/


I don't eat wheat either. I'm not starving. I'm in great shape.


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## TapestryArtist (Sep 4, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Here's her diet.
> http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/
> 
> Probably lack of nutrients to the brain.


So who's being cruel today?


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Maybe Admin will move this post to the political section where it belongs.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/2008/0613/p04s02-usec.html


Wow, the wheat belt is probably quaking in it's boots. A few artisans growing wheat. Enough to make a couple of loaves of bread. Book the cruise on the money they'll rake in. Pun intended.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Maybe Admin will move this post to the political section where it belongs.


What's the name of the political section here?


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## JMBeals (Nov 27, 2013)

Ladyj960 said:


> Well, I'm so glad it is working for you. Especially since my premiums and out of pocket expenses increased, since Obama care went into effect, to subsides Obama care health care coverage. Maybe the Republicans feel that everybody else shouldn't have to carry the burden for Obama care; and, maybe Obama should have allowed congress and due process to work this plan out instead of bulling it through the system.


 :thumbup:


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Our state employees' retirement system dropped Cigna and UHC, two excellent companies, and gave us the choice of BCBS or nothing. Charges and copays have gone way up and one friend of mine was even refused coverage for the drug that keeps her alive. Go Obama. Go far away. Very far.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Well, I still wanna know where they grow wheat in Massachusetts? Wonder when I'll find out?


There are still farms in Massachusettes -- not nearly enough to supply all of USA with their produce though. It never was really great farmland so many early settlers moved Westward and found more productive land. I suppose that much of the feed for their milk cattle still comes from the mid-west and western states where large quantities of feed can be produced. Our city gal who drinks Massachusetts milk probably hasn't considered that aspect of the situation, but if she's happy, why rock her boat?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Our state employees' retirement system dropped Cigna and UHC, two excellent companies, and gave us the choice of BCBS or nothing. Charges and copays have gone way up and one friend of mine was even refused coverage for the drug that keeps her alive. Go Obama. Go far away. Very far.


But she could have some exotic pre-existing condition costing a fortune and she couldn't be denied care. Isn't that sweet. NOT


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> There are still farms in Massachusettes -- not nearly enough to supply all of USA with their produce though. It never was really great farmland so many early settlers moved Westward and found more productive land. I suppose that much of the feed for their milk cattle still comes from the mid-west and western states where large quantities of feed can be produced. Our city gal who drinks Massachusetts milk probably hasn't considered that aspect of the situation, but if she's happy, why rock her boat?


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> What's the name of the political section here?


Progressive (?!) Women's Forum. 
http://www.knittingparadise.com/section_list.jsp
Go to this page, scroll down and click subscribe.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Elder Ellen said:


> There are still farms in Massachusettes -- not nearly enough to supply all of USA with their produce though. It never was really great farmland so many early settlers moved Westward and found more productive land. I suppose that much of the feed for their milk cattle still comes from the mid-west and western states where large quantities of feed can be produced. Our city gal who drinks Massachusetts milk probably hasn't considered that aspect of the situation, but if she's happy, why rock her boat?


Cuz I can. That's why. Did you see this diet: I wonder if she sticks to it.
http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Oh? Which two wars did President Obama start? I must have missed the news that day.


Yes, you must have. Libya and Uganda. He also ordered drone attacks on Pakistan and wanted to do the same on Egypt but the backlash was so great that he backed down.


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

JMBeals said:


> :thumbup:


You'll notice that the President, VP, and Congress are exempt from the ACA. What does that imply? It's good enough for the rest of us, but not good enough for their families? What elitists!


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## JMBeals (Nov 27, 2013)

Ahirsch601 said:


> It seems to be working very well in states that participated in the Medicaid expansion. In those states many people were able to get the subsidies making the cost very reasonable. All depends on your Govenor.


"subsidy" = pols/bureaucrats picking winners & losers and redistributing wealth. Folks have forgotten where the gov't gets its money.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Progressive (?!) Women's Forum.
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/section_list.jsp
> Go to this page, scroll down and click subscribe.


I don't see any political section under Create New Topic.

Why don't you not view this. Wouldn't that solve YOUR problem?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

JMBeals said:


> "subsidy" = pols/bureaucrats picking winners & losers and redistributing wealth. Folks have forgotten where the gov't gets its money.


Some of us haven't.


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## mzmom1 (Mar 4, 2011)

Bea 465 said:


> Recent article in our local paper indicates the Hispanics in California are paying more for insurance through Obamacare (which they can't afford) and also are unable to go to their regular doctors because their doctors are not part of the health plan.


Maybe the ones who came here illegally will have to go home to get care. (I DON"T mean legal immigrants and naturalized citizens! Bless them for doing things the right way!)


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mzmom1 said:


> Maybe the ones who came here illegally will have to go home to get care. (I DON"T mean legal immigrants and naturalized citizens! Bless them for doing things the right way!)


Maybe is second only to IF.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Yeah Farmer in this country, you feed us better then any other country. You do not always make money as crops may fail. But you keep going. I am proud of each one of you.

Thank You with out you what would we do import food from where? Seem some don't bother to think of that do they.

As one women said to her brother when ask where do you think milk comes from. Her answer the store and she meant it.

With out the farmers nothing in this country would run. We need food and the products that corn and wheat are use for other then food.

So Yeah farmers I for one love you all, and Thanks for what you do and go through to make our food cheap when we should be paying more. So you could benefit from what you do to grow our food. Meaning you should be paid more for what you do for all of us.

Funny how our grains are wanted overseas too. Must be because we do produce enough good food for the rest of the world . 

But hey they get their meaning some on here from the grocery store. 

Wonder if they print their own money too????


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## dianejohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> If he is very ill and doesn't work he should be on Medicare or Medicaid. He is an adult, you are not responsible for his bills. Let us pay them.


i agree!! we have to pay for it anyway. he should be getting this support. someone who deserves it should be getting it!


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Cuz I can. That's why. Did you see this diet: I wonder if she sticks to it.
> http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/


OK, I looked at it. I have known several people who stick/stuck to a gluten free diet, including my own mother. It must be difficult. I grew up on a farm in the mid-west and I never did like to drink milk. I am now in my late eighties. So where is this going?


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## carrottop71 (Jul 17, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


Don't vote, don't complain.


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## dianejohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


well, we're at a point where we need a DIFFERENT set of jerks, so if you would just consider voting for that, it might make a big difference.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Nope, as long as we both know they were Bush's wars, I'm fine. :thumbup:



WindingRoad said:


> As long as we want to blame him. Any other questions?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You must be starving.
> 
> http://www.3fatchicks.com/20-common-foods-containing-wheat/


 :XD: Funny!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

JMBeals said:


> "subsidy" = pols/bureaucrats picking winners & losers and redistributing wealth. Folks have forgotten where the gov't gets its money.


Yup and the quote I hate the most is " Pay their fair share" I already pay 49% of my income to federal and local taxes, Social Security ( which I am constantly told wont be available for me when I retire), and medical insurance. People also forget what many of us do to "pay our fair share". People work nights weekends and holidays, police, firemen risk their lives every day. Towns try balance their budgets by cutting their employees and people wonder why their kids arent getting the best education in the world.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Now that works for me! My son is a medical marijuana user & we have 'state licensed & certified' dispensaries & then the ones that are not. When the law here was 1st passed, there were 3 'state approved' & dozens of non approved. We didn't know at the time, but, the dispensary he was using was one of the illegal ones & it got raided!! We had been there the day before. That was when he realized what the real deal was. He went on the internet & researched & found an approved one. With the growth of approved dispensaries, there is now one 1/2 mile from our house & they are reasonably priced & treat my son well & with respect. It's good for the country's economy to operate legal businesses, no matter what they are & they also serve to squash the illegal operations. Of course I'm not talking about street corner operations.


I do have a question pertaining to Medical Marijuana: From what I have heard Marijuana in pill form does the same thing as smoking it for pain relief and all the other things it is good for. Is this true?


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## MGT (Oct 6, 2011)

A family member who tried to get SS disability was told to keep applying-it may take several tries. It's wrong, but that's how it "works."


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## dianejohnson (Jul 26, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Since I am a stupid American because I choose not to vote & you do vote, therefore, making you much smarter than I, it's best that I leave this conversation before I get even stupider than I already am & start saying some really stupid things.
> Bye.


it's not that we think you are actually stupid: it's just that when you admit that you refuse to vote, you do make one wonder! the exercised right to vote is a very precious opportunity to actually make a difference, short of running for office ourselves. flee if you must, but sometimes changing your mind can change your entire world. voting is a very smart thing to do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> But, but but Boston has cows. I don't have to get involved with the medical community any more that you do.


You really ought to get out more, Massachusetts is much more than Boston.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Montana Gramma said:


> We must have been raised by the same kind of parents! It was always, "paddle your own canoe and you make your own choices". Well that is slowly being eroded, people are becoming quite comfortable to let someone else solve their troubles and sponge. How did a whole nation start switching from self respect to entitlement? We drove old vehicles, rarely ate out, worked extra jobs etc. etc. and because we did without we now have the expected pleasure of treating slackers to what they do not even have the courtesy to say is a handout. A hand up is in some cases is rebuffed. Some do not even want to pay back their student loans and the American tax payer subsidizes that too! How do they sleep? I do notice a lot of the younger parents are doing a good job in teaching the children to become good citizens. They have to. When our generation is gone, there will be no solid base left to carry on with their freebies. A society of part timers cannot carry the burden. The fall is going to pinch a lot worse than what we gave up to be independent and they will not know how to cope. Sure hope their health plan allows for a lot of counseling on poor pitiful me.


Now the government is saying that it's a good thing people have Obamacare! They can choose if they want to work! Isn't that great? NOT! It's not okay for people who can work...to choose not to and get a break. I'm not talking about those who need it---there is too much room for people to take advantage of the system. America became what it is because of people working hard to become better. This is slowly being eroded as a value in our nation.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> I do have a question pertaining to Medical Marijuana: From what I have heard Marijuana in pill form does the same thing as smoking it for pain relief and all the other things it is good for. Is this true?


That's true. And they make lozenges and baked goods too!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> He didn't vote against them now did he. You do know he was in Congress at one time. I make that statement TIC.


http://history.howstuffworks.com/historical-figures/barack-obama4.htm

Try again.


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## cbyrd1 (Jan 16, 2014)

I'm suspicious of the "much smaller premium" you say you are getting because everyone I talk to tells me their premiums are higher than what they were paying before.

The only people I know who are paying smaller premiums are those that are receiving a subsidy from the government to help pay the premium. In which case, the other tax payers are paying the extra!


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

Tarasque.....THE REPUGS!!!!watch your mouth....I love a good debate but name calling is out!!! I have always felt we are lucky to have 2 opposing parties ...even far left or far right...this allows us to land somewhere in the middle..but nastiness and name calling is wrong...I am now checking out of this trash.. This is below where we as women should stand.


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## jannetie (May 30, 2012)

I don't know about the pills, but have been told by a doctor the sublingual liquid works the same way.


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I am reading up on it now. It's hard to find two websites that give info that hasn't completely diff information on the subjects about the wars. I just have to find one that has believable information, so will keep looking and reading about the wars. But I have found this on Wikipedia:

The United States government has made hundreds of attacks on targets in Northwest Pakistan since 2004 using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division.[4] Most of these attacks are on targets in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the Afghan border in Northwest Pakistan.
President Obama wasn't elected President until 2008, so he is continuing something that was started by a previous president. So that isn't something that was just suddenly stared by President Obama. Though he is continuing it.

Personally I don't know why the U.S. gets into all these wars. IMHO, I don't think anyone can improve the conditions of these countries but themselves. Some of those countries don't know anything but war. That's what they have lived with for many generations. I don't see an answer to those countries problems.

So now I'm done with that subject. And I still believe ACA needs a far amount of time to see if it will work. And IMO it hasn't been given a fair try. I think it's the answer for those who haven't been able to afford insurance before. If, in good time it still hasn't lived up to it's promises, then it may have to go. I don't know. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

Now I'm going back to finding a simple & easy trianglar shawl pattern to make for my MIL. She's just gone into a retirement home, and says the common area can be quite chilly for her, so I thought I'd knit her a shawl.....Wish me luck, as I'm not a terribly good knitter.... :wink:



thumper5316 said:


> Yes, you must have. Libya and Uganda. He also ordered drone attacks on Pakistan and wanted to do the same on Egypt but the backlash was so great that he backed down.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

cbyrd1 said:


> I'm suspicious of the "much smaller premium" you say you are getting because everyone I talk to tells me their premiums are higher than what they were paying before.
> 
> The only people I know who are paying smaller premiums are those that are receiving a subsidy from the government to help pay the premium. In which case, the other tax payers are paying the extra!


A lot has to do with how cooperative the state is, and just as with your questioning this, unless you actually see the paperwork you just don't know, do you?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree 100%. I vote at every election in my area that I'm qualified to vote in. I also say, if you don't vote, you can't expect anyone to listen to your concerns. VOTE, it's your right and IMO your duty as an American citizen. :thumbup: 


dianejohnson said:


> it's not that we think you are actually stupid: it's just that when you admit that you refuse to vote, you do make one wonder! the exercised right to vote is a very precious opportunity to actually make a difference, short of running for office ourselves. flee if you must, but sometimes changing your mind can change your entire world. voting is a very smart thing to do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, I am reading up on it now. It's hard to find two websites that give info that hasn't completely diff information on the subjects about the wars. I just have to find one that has believable information, so will keep looking and reading about the wars. But I have found this on Wikipedia:
> 
> The United States government has made hundreds of attacks on targets in Northwest Pakistan since 2004 using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division.[4] Most of these attacks are on targets in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the Afghan border in Northwest Pakistan.
> President Obama wasn't elected President until 2008, so he is continuing something that was started by a previous president. So that isn't something that was just suddenly stared by President Obama. Though he is continuing it.
> ...


Good luck with the shawl, I am sure she will love it!


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Good luck with the shawl, I am sure she will love it!


 Thanks. :thumbup:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nussa said:


> Well, I am reading up on it now. It's hard to find two websites that give info that hasn't completely diff information on the subjects about the wars. I just have to find one that has believable information, so will keep looking and reading about the wars. But I have found this on Wikipedia:
> 
> The United States government has made hundreds of attacks on targets in Northwest Pakistan since 2004 using unmanned aerial vehicles (drones) controlled by the Central Intelligence Agency's Special Activities Division.[4] Most of these attacks are on targets in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas along the Afghan border in Northwest Pakistan.
> President Obama wasn't elected President until 2008, so he is continuing something that was started by a previous president. So that isn't something that was just suddenly stared by President Obama. Though he is continuing it.
> ...


The entry into Afghanistan was simple, it was run by the Taliban and they were allowing al Qaeda to hang out and train there. The trouble is we have stayed for at least a dozen years longer than we should have. 
Iraq was a great money maker for the military industrial complex. 
Libya was a military take over that we supported by air. 
Egypt was a military take over Xs2. 
It cost us LOTS of money to save lots of lives, kind of like the bombing of Japan that ended WWII


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Jean, first of all, why would a person who doesn't want to discuss politics click INTO a thread called "Affordable Care Act is Working and so is Obamacare!"
> 
> If you're too lazy to figure out how to NOT click into a thread like this, I can see how you might not have the capacity to actually LEARN about Obamacare it what it may have to offer you.
> 
> ...


WOW! You go girl!


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

kneonknitter said:


> I didn't elect anybody because I don't vote for jerks. I don't vote because all politicians are alike, no matter what their party is. They are ALL jerks, including the ones you voted for. BTW...I hope you didn't send your child to school yesterday even tho your newly elected jerk ordered schools to remain open.


Maybe that is part of your problem. You don't vote. You could at least vote for the lesser of the evils. By doing that you would send a message to the worse jerks. By not voting at all, you really have no right to complain.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> He didn't vote against them now did he. You do know he was in Congress at one time. I make that statement TIC.


Maybe this will have been straightened out in later pages, but Obama was the only one who did not vote for the Iraqi War while in the senate. That is how he came to the nation's attention.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> So don't buy the health care plan and when they finally institute the fine, have them take your tiny little fine out of your refund.


I do not intend to purchase privately funded medical insurance. It has nothing to do with health care.

What I would support is a Single Payer system that operates outside the private corporations and excludes Big Pharma from lobbying their criminally priced and criminally toxic drugs.

I don't think everyone will love any system but it will have to do with people lobbying for the best care possible. Right now American health is at the bottom of a world wide comparative list. In terms of life expectancy, the US doesn't even make the top 10. Drugs are approved without any meaningful testing, all of it done by the chemical corporations that produce them. The conflict of interest is so rampant that the best position is deep suspicion of anything told to the public. And doctors are a big part of the problem as they receive their information from the same greedy chemical corporations. Their ignorance is incredible as they participate in giving out drugs to a population that functions as guinea pigs. $10 billion later and many deaths and horrific consequences, there is an oops! moment and the drug is pulled off the market.

So why would anyone want to be forced to pay for being part of such a system. At least with Single Payer that is the only system provided across the board to everyone, including our elitist politicians there is a shared experience. In all industrialized nations, people are free to buy extra insurance at their own expense.


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## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

I am an RN and worked in Utilization Review for 15 years and in a large hospital for 25 years, as well as nursing homes and a doctor's office. There were no members of the medical community in my area in favor of this type of dictated care. The insurance companies also felt that their hands were being tied. But it looks like there is nothing than can be about it at this point. We will just have to see what kind of fruit the tree bears. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I do not intend to purchase privately funded medical insurance. It has nothing to do with health care.
> 
> What I would support is a Single Payer system that operates outside the private corporations and excludes Big Pharma from lobbying their criminally priced and criminally toxic drugs.
> 
> ...


want and force in the same sentence are to ... as fun sex and rape are to...


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## DeniseCM (Aug 30, 2012)

suekadkins said:


> This site does not need any conversation about our disaster of a president and his disastrous health care bill. I guess if it works for the person who sent the first post, that is all that matters to her. It certainly isn't working for millions and the fall out has just begun. Please, please keep this site for other things instead of politics. I thought this was the one place I wouldn't have to deal with Obama!


Hi Sue
Your opinion, is your opinion. Granted, you are entitled. This thread falls under Chit Chat, ie, anything not related to knitting or crocheting or, for that matter, anything crafty. It's Carte Blanche i.e. anything goes, (within reason) Please give your fellow Americans the space to express their thinking. Should it be, not to your liking, please don't click on the thread. This one was specific. It didn't leave any doubt as to what it was about.
I am a South African and I am extremely interested in what is happening in other parts of the world. And may I add, there have been those Americans who have said that they too, value the ideas and insights of fellow Americans.
Show them some respect and allow them the space to express themselves, as they will to you.
Hugs and universal love.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> want and force in the same sentence are to ... as fun sex and rape are to...


There you go Janet. That is what is going on: people wanting something that is not good for them and accepting being forced into buying it. Maybe this oxymoron is the core of the issue.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Tamarque is my hero of the day! Brava for your intelligent insights and for explaining it all so well.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Torticollus said:


> I am an RN and worked in Utilization Review for 15 years and in a large hospital for 25 years, as well as nursing homes and a doctor's office. There were no members of the medical community in my area in favor of this type of dictated care. The insurance companies also felt that their hands were being tied. But it looks like there is nothing than can be about it at this point. We will just have to see what kind of fruit the tree bears. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.


Big business always complains their hands are tied when they have limits placed on them. But capitalism without strong restraints can only become fascism. Have no sympathy for the corporate structure that has been ripping off the public and causing all kinds of environmental hazzards.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Oh my God. My Marxist mind is doing a happy dance for Tamarque. Great understanding of Capitalism.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

The Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing!


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joycevv said:


> The Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing!


Yes, we know. It was a joke about those surveys, I believe.


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

Yes, despite misinformation and insurance company scare tactics.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Torticollus said:


> I am an RN and worked in Utilization Review for 15 years and in a large hospital for 25 years, as well as nursing homes and a doctor's office. There were no members of the medical community in my area in favor of this type of dictated care. The insurance companies also felt that their hands were being tied. But it looks like there is nothing than can be about it at this point. We will just have to see what kind of fruit the tree bears. The proof is in the pudding, as they say.


I don't mean to be harsh, I just have to ask.
How is it that being a part of the medical community gives a person a leg up on having an opinion about people buying health care insurance?
Is it about too many people having a way to go to the doctor? Is it about Nurse Practicioners and Physician Assistants getting more responsibility? 
What do you mean by dictated care? Is there another type of dictated care we could switch to? 
Didn't the health insurance industry volunteer for this very early in the process? 
I would have to double check the timelines, but, it seems to me that was a huge disappointment to those of us who wanted a public option...the agreement of insurance companies to go along ...


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## mtnmama67 (Dec 16, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> ACA or ObamaCare is working. I have signed up using MNSURE in my state and I have better coverage than I had before and I pay a much smaller premium. My state was also wise enough to participate in Medicaid helping it's poorest citizens. States dominated by Republicans are not faring so well as they opted out of federal programs and by doing so hurt the poor and most vulnerable citizens in their own states. Can't blame the President or the Democrats for that.
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/harold-meyerson-despite-the-critics-obamacare-works/2014/01/08/bad2227a-77d3-11e3-af7f-13bf0e9965f6_story.html


I could almost write a book on this subject,but won't! <G> Wait a short while and you will change your mind.The full ramifications of this Obama Care are still unknown by the vast majority of people and also by the SUPPORTERS of this Bill.Think you will be very surprised.Talk to Canadians,The English,and Germans!Why do Canadians come over the border to see specialists? for example?In neurology-the wait can be over 6 months..doesn't work very well,in that time frame,for someone who has neurological issues!! There is going to be a shortage of medical doctors and healthcare professionals ,already happening.Don't wish to sound like doomsday is coming...but - just wait and see!!


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

Same with republican controlled Oklahoma, I'm now stuck with Humana.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

To MTNMAMA - in New York City we have been waiting for months to see a specialist and this had nothing to do with ACA. Social Security and Medicare were trashed when they first came out. Now they are valued by all. You just wait and see, Ma'am. Once ACA becomes commonplace, most will be grateful.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

mtnmama67 said:


> I could almost write a book on this subject,but won't! <G> Wait a short while and you will change your mind.The full ramifications of this Obama Care are still unknown by the vast majority of people and also by the SUPPORTERS of this Bill.Think you will be very surprised.Talk to Canadians,The English,and Germans!Why do Canadians come over the border to see specialists? for example?In neurology-the wait can be over 6 months..doesn't work very well,in that time frame,for someone who has neurological issues!! There is going to be a shortage of medical doctors and healthcare professionals ,already happening.Don't wish to sound like doomsday is coming...but - just wait and see!!


There are many people on this site who have spoken up on both sides of that arument,too.


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

DeniseCM, :thumbup: :thumbup: :-D :-D


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## calisuzi (Apr 1, 2013)

tamarque :thumbup: :thumbup:   You were nicer than I, pleased that I kept my fingers to myself, for once.


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## missylam (Aug 27, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Obamacare is working? BWAHAHAHAAHAHA!! And if you like your plan you can keep it, too.


I must agree.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

mtnmama67 said:


> I could almost write a book on this subject,but won't! <G> Wait a short while and you will change your mind.The full ramifications of this Obama Care are still unknown by the vast majority of people and also by the SUPPORTERS of this Bill.Think you will be very surprised.Talk to Canadians,The English,and Germans!Why do Canadians come over the border to see specialists? for example?In neurology-the wait can be over 6 months..doesn't work very well,in that time frame,for someone who has neurological issues!! There is going to be a shortage of medical doctors and healthcare professionals ,already happening.Don't wish to sound like doomsday is coming...but - just wait and see!!


And what about all the Americans who go to Canada and elsewheres for treatment?

But your information is faulty. Canada had a slow service problem when they first installed the system. It has proven to be very efficient now. About 4 yrs ago I had copied a letter/article from a woman who lived in Canada for some years. She then moved to California, I believe. Her article did a point by point comparison of the 2 systems and the American one clearly was on the losing end on every aspect.
Further, when people are asked about their experiences with Single Payer type systems in many countries, they are much more favorable than comparable experiences in the US. Also, costs are dramatically less expensive in those countries. No system is perfect and there are people who always want more, especially the wealthy who think they are special. However, privately run health care is not health care at all. It is a profit driven system that promotes racism, sexism and classism as excuses to short treatment. It cannot be anything else. It is the nature of the beast.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

calisuzi said:


> tamarque :thumbup: :thumbup:   You were nicer than I, pleased that I kept my fingers to myself, for once.


I really try very hard to make my comments civil and respectful. It is the only way to have a meaningful conversation especially when attitudes are all over the map as is real information.


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## Prayz (Jul 17, 2011)

The proof will be seen when and how many claims will be denied or not covered.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Prayz said:


> The proof will be seen when and how many claims will be denied or not covered.


And how many are.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SQM said:


> To MTNMAMA - in New York City we have been waiting for months to see a specialist and this had nothing to do with ACA. Social Security and Medicare were trashed when they first came out. Now they are valued by all. You just wait and see, Ma'am. Once ACA becomes commonplace, most will be grateful.


Medicare is not valued by all. You obviously haven't talked to the providers who are dumping their Medicare patients because the reimbursement is ridiculously low. Would you continue to work if your employer only paid you .50 of your salary and told you that you can just forget about the rest?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thumper - I have been having a hard time finding some specialists because I am on medicare. But eventually it all works out and I am paying less than I would for private which kept going up every year. Staying well is the best health insurance, obviously.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Medicare is not valued by all. You obviously haven't talked to the providers who are dumping their Medicare patients because the reimbursement is ridiculously low. Would you continue to work if your employer only paid you .50 of your salary and told you that you can just forget about the rest?


Medicare payments have been low for years, haven't they? 
Many people are working these days for less than half of what they used to make and are darned glad to have a job. 
There are over 100,000 interns and residents per year going through the system. 
One door closes another opens, I hope those old docs enjoy their retirement.


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## Laddie (Mar 17, 2013)

Seriously? Thanks to mr prez,my work hours have been cut and so was my insurance. This doesn't work for me. This new rap has yet today for my broken arm.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Laddie said:


> Seriously? Thanks to mr prez,my work hours have been cut and so was my insurance. This doesn't work for me. This new rap has yet today for my broken arm.


It has nothing to do with the new law since the implementation has been delayed, remember?
Sorry for your troubles, though. 
Hope you got to use some of your extra time to go online and get a new policy.

Can't figure out that broken arm reference. Hope you are healing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Mem51 said:


> It's great for me too! Just had cataract surgery on Friday. Didn't cost me a cent! Massachusetts had mandatory insurance long before it went federal. Go figure, MIT Romney, who opposed Obama care started the program when he was Governor of MA . Because of my income I qualified for state health care, thank God!


Good for you! It is good to hear from those that are doing better and for those who are not I would like to hear from any of them what is not working and why and what steps have they taken to solve their problem. Maybe, others out here can suggest some options as to what you can do and who you should contact.


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## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Maybe this will have been straightened out in later pages, but Obama was the only one who did not vote for the Iraqi War while in the senate. That is how he came to the nation's attention.


May be that is because he didn't have the guts to vote for anything He voted "PRESENT" That is a real leader for just about anything.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Actually, he was the only one with morals and intelligence to see thru Bush's lies and not follow the other idiots into a disastrous war.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> May be that is because he didn't have the guts to vote for anything He voted "PRESENT" That is a real leader for just about anything.


Not sure where you get your info, according to this he did vote other than present. 
I would be more than happy to look at the documentation that you have that says otherwise. 
If you would like to see the full posting, it is on this thread page 21.

restoring habeas corpus to detainees in American custody (S. Amendment 2022) [source: Project Vote Smart].
He voted against a successful bill in 2007 which funded the Iraq War without including a timetable for withdrawal (H.R. 2206) [source: The Washington Post].
In 2007, he voted against another successful bill which gave $120 billion in funding for the Iraq War (vote 181), but voted for two different votes on a separate failed bill (HR 1591), which appropriated similar amounts for the Iraq War but included timetables for American troop withdrawals [source: The Washington Post].
He voted in favor of HR 4939 in 2006, which granted $67 billion in emergency funding to the Department of Defense [source: Obama Senate].
Obama voted against the Military Commissions Act of 2006, (S. 3930) which granted legal immunity for CIA officials involved in acts of torture, outlawed certain acts of torture by U.S. agents, and barred detainees labeled enemy combatants from protesting their incarceration. He voted in favor of an amended version of this bill (S. Amdt. 5095), which included Congressional oversight of some CIA programs [source: ­U.S. Senate].
He voted in favor of providing $965 million in additional funding to increase port security in 2006 (S. Amdt. 3054) [source: U.S. Senate].
In 2005, Obama voted against a House resolution to reallocate $36 million to the detention facility at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba (HR 1268 # 93) [source: TPM Election Central].
Obama broke with the Democratic Party line when he voted in favor of H.R. 6304, a bill that supports the extension of the scope of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) and provides retroactive immunity to telecommunication companies that provided their customers' information to the U.S. government [source: U.S. Senate].
Economy/Government Finance:
In 2007, Obama voted no (S. Amdt. 491) on an $18 billion decrease in funding for programs deemed ineffective -- including Border Patrol, rural education and Coast Guard search and rescue. He also voted against $40 billion in reduced spending over five years on programs including agriculture student loans and other programs, but allotted funds towards hurricane recovery [source: U.S. Senate].
He voted against an amendment in 2005 (S. Amdt. 31) that would have capped the amount of interest allowed to be charged on credit at 30 percent [source: U.S. Senate].
He voted against the successful passage of the Central American Free Trade Agreement in 2005 [source: U.S. Senate].
In 2005, Obama voted yes on a bill (S. 5), which affected class action lawsuits filed in separate states, bringing them together into the jurisdiction of the federal government [source: The Washington Post].
Voted in favor of increasing the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour in 2007 (H.R. 1591) [source: The Washington Post].
On the next page, we'll see how Barack Obama voted on immigration and health care issues during his senatorial career.
Print Citation & Date Feedback Page 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 
46


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

gjz said:


> That's true. And they make lozenges and baked goods too!


That is what I have heard about Medical marijuana. 
The reason that the users prefer to smoke it is:
They get the "high" that comes from smoking it verses taking a pill or putting it in food or drink.

Now I ask this question: Smoking cigarettes has been made the big bad ugly in the world of today. How is it that smoking marijuana is ok? The ads are showing people smoking it with no groups marching to tell everyone how bad smoking pot is. From everything I have read and seen Marijuana is far worse than cigarettes . It is also being advertised as " Recreational Marijuana". Not Medical marijuana?????. Also: Smoking Pot on a regular basis leads to Bigger drugs. This is a known factor. 
For any company that does random drug testing it is a fact that if say a police officer or fire fighter goes into a place where Pot is being smoked that they (the police officer, fire fighter ) if tested will show a level of drugs in their system.
Also: pot stays in the bodies system for 30 days. A cigarette dissipates from the body within 20 minutes. 
Also: Doctor's are stating that a pregnant women who smokes pot can do damage to her unborn child. 
I have read that a pregnant woman who smokes cigarettes can cause her unborn child to be of a smaller weight. 
I'm wondering what will be said when a person high on pot kills someone in a automobile accident? 
I could go on and on about this subject but these are some of the questions I have on this subject. 
I would like to hear others take on this subject. I just cannot get my head around it .


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> That is what I have heard about Medical marijuana.
> The reason that the users prefer to smoke it is:
> They get the "high" that comes from smoking it verses taking a pill or putting it in food or drink.
> 
> ...


Recreational use and medical use are two very different things. 
We are in a free country, if we want to kill ourselves with heroin, meth amphetamines, alcohol, food, or pot, we can... oh, in a car or motorcycle... stepping onto a 3rd rail. 
Relief from certain health or lack of health related diseases are better with pot than anything else, I guess. Plus the affect on nausea that grass has is very beneficial.
What is said when a person is under the influence of alcohol and kills someone while driving? Well, unless they are rich and have "affluenza", they are put in jail.


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## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

I lost my Doctor after over 20 years. She no longer takes
Medicare or any other Insurance connected with Affordable
Health Care.
Went to the Hospital and needed a couple of procedures to check for a problem. After over four hours of trying with no results, the Nurse recommended a different procedure, just to be informed by the Doctor that it is not approved under Obama Care.
My Meds. went from $3 to $19 and I have to wait for an appointment weeks, what used to take a couple of days.
So don't tell me it is working.


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

Me Too!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Ok so I haven't read ALL the entries but I must say the Republicans are not sabotaging Obamacare they are opposed to it. The president himself is the one who is changing unilaterally his own healthcare law. Is that simple enough to understand


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

elfiestouch said:


> I lost my Doctor after over 20 years. She no longer takes
> Medicare or any other Insurance connected with Affordable
> Health Care.
> Went to the Hospital and needed a couple of procedures to check for a problem. After over four hours of trying with no results, the Nurse recommended a different procedure, just to be informed by the Doctor that it is not approved under Obama Care.
> ...


How about if you call that Medicare number and ask for someone to direct you to a doc in your area who takes Medicare. 
I would feel sorry for your doctor and the loss of her practice if she weren't such a selfish prig.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Ok so I haven't read ALL the entries but I must say the Republicans are not sabotaging Obamacare they are opposed to it. The president himself is the one who is changing unilaterally his own healthcare law. Is that simple enough to understand


You don't pay much attention to Congress, do you?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Friday and you think you aren't gonna pay for something? Give them a chance to add it all up. You'll get a bill.


WindingRoad may I ask what you believe you are going to get billed for? I got my insurance through MNSure which is Minnesota's healthcare exchange and I am paying my own premiums and no one else. What state are you in and do you have private insurance through your employer or are you on Medicare. If you are so unhappy why is that?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheryl - the only truth to your lengthy statement is that marijuana stays in the fatty deposits for about a month. The rest was total mis-information. More damage to human life has been done on alcohol than on marijuana. More people die in auto accidents with alcohol. More people abuse and kill others when they are in an alcohol rage. No such state of mind with weed. Try it before you criticise it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Well just drop your insurance company and see how much you'll have to pay. LOL.


What is that supposed to mean? Please explain so we can understand.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Ok so I haven't read ALL the entries but I must say the Republicans are not sabotaging Obamacare they are opposed to it. The president himself is the one who is changing unilaterally his own healthcare law. Is that simple enough to understand?





Janet Cooke said:


> You don't pay much attention to Congress, do you?


Not one Republican voted * for* Obamacare/ACA; *not one*.

Obama has by his pen, changed the law 28 times to date (illegally).

Perhaps you should pay more attention to what Congress and the President does.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Recreational use and medical use are two very different things.
> We are in a free country, if we want to kill ourselves with heroin, meth amphetamines, alcohol, food, or pot, we can... oh, in a car or motorcycle... stepping onto a 3rd rail.
> Relief from certain health or lack of health related diseases are better with pot than anything else, I guess. Plus the affect on nausea that grass has is very beneficial.
> What is said when a person is under the influence of alcohol and kills someone while driving? Well, unless they are rich and have "affluenza", they are put in jail.


I hear you on the free country we live in.(Although I'm starting to question this) My question was : " Does the pill or food form of Pot give the same relief that smoking pot does. " What can you add to this question?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheryl - depends on the quality of the marijuana. There are all grades of marijuana regardless of the delivery form.


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## granjan (Aug 9, 2013)

I thought this was a knitting forum, would rather not see any comments on politics


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You don't pay much attention to Congress, do you?


Yes Janet I do, every delay that has been made was by Obama himself. The House has voted to repeal


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

This would be laughable if it weren't true. In an earlier post on this subject, I wrote about all the hassel we were having about refilling a prescription that I've been taking for years. I believe I said that if we'd been paid by the hour for our time on the phone and computer while dealing with this problem, we'd have trouble carrying all the money to the bank, or something like that. 

Well, I finally called my doctor's office and asked that another prescription be called into a local pharmacy and I'd pay for it out of pocket. (I've gone without the med for 5 days and was getting a bit nervous.) This seemed like a good solution, so I drove into town to pick it up. Guess what? It cost exactly $2.51. Gas for the round trip was more than that, and I'm guessing that a bottle of beer or pack of cigarettes would cost at least as much. 

While we are talking dollars and cents, I wonder how much all the government, insurance, pharmacy, and other employees made while they were dealing with this problem. Not all of our phone calls were toll free, and our time was worth nothing. My time used to be valuable, but I guess that's no longer the case. So, it's OK if my savings go down the drain and end up in that big sink-hole down in Washinton, DC. Who is saving anything? This is just plain wasteful all the way around.


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## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> How about if you call that Medicare number and ask for someone to direct you to a doc in your area who takes Medicare.
> I would feel sorry for your doctor and the loss of her practice if she weren't such a selfish prig.


My Doctor is everything but selfish. She does a lot of work for the poor in the area, and takes care of her patients. She just refuses to work under "Obama Care" cause they put to many restrictions on the Doctor what procedures they can use on their patients.
So don't talk about something you have no clue about. 
I refuse to use a Doctor that is recommended by Medicare.
You get the Doctor that is approved by Dr.Emanuehl. Who needs that. They can keep those recommendations in Chicago.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

granjan said:


> I thought this was a knitting forum, would rather not see any comments on politics


You do not have to be here. Unwatch my fair lady.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Ok so I haven't read ALL the entries but I must say the Republicans are not sabotaging Obamacare they are opposed to it. The president himself is the one who is changing unilaterally his own healthcare law. Is that simple enough to understand


They aren't sabotaging it as much as they would like as it appears that the Dems read it before they passed it. 
They are indeed cutting as much as they possible can, however.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/republicans-stretch-the-truth-on-obamacare-funding-20140121

The House taketh and the Senate replaces:

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/congress/item/16638-with-gop-help-senate-restores-funding-for-obamacare


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

elfiestouch said:


> My Doctor is everything but selfish. She does a lot of work for the poor in the area, and takes care of her patients. She just refuses to work under "Obama Care" cause they put to many restrictions on the Doctor what procedures they can use on their patients.
> So don't talk about something you have no clue about.
> I refuse to use a Doctor that is recommended by Medicare.
> You get the Doctor that is approved by Dr.Emanuehl. Who needs that. They can keep those recommendations in Chicago.


So then why has she stopped taking her Medicare patients? Does she just detest old people and the disabled? 
Because she cannot possibly be a doctor and be stupid enough to think that Medicare which has been around since the mid 60s is under Obamacare, could she?
LOL, you are making no sense. Enjoy your family while you can. Make sure to fill out a DNR so that they can't sneak that medical help for you after you are unconscious.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Munchn said:


> You are one of the lucky ones.


Would you share your experience with ACA or Obamacare so we understand your comment?


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> They aren't sabotaging it as much as they would like as it appears that the Dems read it before they passed it.
> They are indeed cutting as much as they possible can, however.
> 
> http://www.nationaljournal.com/congress/republicans-stretch-the-truth-on-obamacare-funding-20140121
> ...


Oh I get it you are the under informed and you drank the kool-aid
Really read the truth without ideological eyes


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> How about if you call that Medicare number and ask for someone to direct you to a doc in your area who takes Medicare.
> I would feel sorry for your doctor and the loss of her practice if she weren't such a selfish prig.


Not being the least judgemental, are you. Perhaps she could no long afford to keep her practice open and take care of her family obligates on the pathetic reimbursement she was receiving.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cheryl - the only truth to your lengthy statement is that marijuana stays in the fatty deposits for about a month. The rest was total mis-information. More damage to human life has been done on alcohol than on marijuana. More people die in auto accidents with alcohol. More people abuse and kill others when they are in an alcohol rage. No such state of mind with weed. Try it before you criticise it.


Sorry you feel that my input on this subject is "Mis-information". it was given by a doctor. Now that Pot is the 
big tax maker and is being approved, time will tell won't it on the big killer? I think I will pass on trying it before I criticize it. I've seen far too many good kids lives ruined by starting with pot and eventually going onto harder drugs.
As far as your comment:"No such state of mind with weed"
It depends on the individual . Same as alcohol. jmo


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Not being the least judgemental, are you. Perhaps she could no long afford to keep her practice open and take care of her family obligates on the pathetic reimbursement she was receiving.


Keep reading, she supposedly does all kinds of free care and yet won't do Medicare patients because the payment isn't high enough. Does that make sense to you?
There are only a couple of options for why this story is falling out the way it is. 
I leave the choice of what they might be for you to figure out.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ahirsch601 said:


> Unfortunately it should have been Medicare for all and cut the insurance companies out completely. It will always be too expensive for many people when the insurance companies have to take their cut. Insurance companies are dropping I profitable patients and blaming the ACA.


Ahirsch601 I agree with you that we should have all been in the Medicare program but the insurance companies and politicians who do their bidding made sure that would not happen. Hopefully, we will work towards single payer for everyone and take them out of the equation eventually. I am one of the success stories and very fortunate and if any one out here needs questions answered or help with questions they can let me know on the thread or by PM as some of you have already done. We have to work together to make healthcare and a lot of other things work for the good of all of us. Sitting on our pity pot and complaining never did anyone any good. We have to talk to the people who can make a difference and let them know if we are unhappy.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


Nothing Nana99. Just unwatch the thread and you won't be bothered. In Chit Chat we can talk about anything we like.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Keep reading, she supposedly does all kinds of free care and yet won't do Medicare patients because the payment isn't high enough. Does that make sense to you?
> There are only a couple of options for why this story is falling out the way it is.
> I leave the choice of what they might be for you to figure out.


It's obvious that the only options you will accept are the ones in your narrow view of things. If I were a practitioner I wouldn't accept Medicare or Medicaid patients. Does that mean that I hate the elderly and the poor?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheryl -Pot is not new. It has been a hot black market commodity as long as it has been illegal. Show me a fair study ( not financed by a church or alcoholic concern) that shows it is a gateway drug. 

Doctors are not god and they certainly are missing their chances with ACA. The doctor was terribly misinformed and was not judging from a scientific lens.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> It's obvious that the only options you will accept are the ones in your narrow view of things. If I were a practitioner I wouldn't accept Medicare or Medicaid patients. Does that mean that I hate the elderly and the poor?


Has that woman presented some other option? Refresh my memory, please, about what she says she is going to do to procure medical care. 
I should probably not answer your question about hate since you are apparently not a doc so what you say you do is hypothetical.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> You do not have to be here. Unwatch my fair lady.


That is the best advice I have seen in a while.


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## elfiestouch (Aug 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Keep reading, she supposedly does all kinds of free care and yet won't do Medicare patients because the payment isn't high enough. Does that make sense to you?
> There are only a couple of options for why this story is falling out the way it is.
> I leave the choice of what they might be for you to figure out.


People like you are not worth my time. You are really ignorant and no matter what people tell you would sink in.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cheryl -Pot is not new. It has been a hot black market commodity as long as it has been illegal. Show me a fair study ( not financed by a church or alcoholic concern) that shows it is a gateway drug.
> 
> Doctors are not god and they certainly are missing their chances with ACA. The doctor was terribly misinformed and was not judging from a scientific lens.


Neither is obama god. He should stop acting as if he were. In regard to obamacare I think that the doctor was probably more informed than you.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

But this is America and we all have the best of medical care, I am reading.

Actually, the elderly are not considered a high priority so why bother. The new "I don't take insurance" is only working for those doctors who have developed a reputation and following. But those guys are not necessarily the best. They are older. 

Doctors just need to learn that their field is changing like many are and that medicine will no longer make you obscenely rich.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> Neither is obama god. He should stop acting as if he were. In regard to obamacare I think that the doctor was probably more informed than you.


 Doubt your doctor is more informed than I am. if so, it better explains his dreadful lack of knowledge. And we were not discussing Obamacare or Obama - we were discussing your topic on marijuana. Don't you remember? Are you stoned?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And most don't have any choice.


Why is that? If you explain we can discuss.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Many are. Especially in rural areas. Many will have to travel long distances to get care.


Please tell us where you are and who this is happening to.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cheryl -Pot is not new. It has been a hot black market commodity as long as it has been illegal. Show me a fair study ( not financed by a church or alcoholic concern) that shows it is a gateway drug.
> 
> Doctors are not god and they certainly are missing their chances with ACA. The doctor was terribly misinformed and was not judging from a scientific lens.


You could google "Pros & cons of Marijuana" That's a start.
Plus : Like I said: I've seen far too many young kid's lives destroyed by starting with Pot. 
I can see a sick person who has been advised by their doctor to try Marijuana for relief. But these are patients with cancer, aids, etc. My question to begin this was:" Does the pill form or food form give the same results as smoking Marijuana? " Lets say the same name brand of Marijuana.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SQM said:


> Doubt your doctor is more informed than I am. if so, it better explains his dreadful lack of knowledge. And we were not discussing Obamacare or Obama - we were discussing your topic on marijuana. Don't you remember? Are you stoned?


_My_ topic? In which post did I engage in any discussion regarding marijuana? _My_ memory is just fine. I'm sorry as you apparently have me confused with somebody else.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have never heard any discussions on the pill form. But I think I recall reading they may alter the marijuana and take out the "high" element of the plant. People say that the food version works as well as the smoking. All the medicinal benefits are in the food and smoke plus it is a mood changer. So god made a good plant and very beneficial if understood.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

thumper5316 said:


> _My_ topic? In which post did I engage in any discussion regarding marijuana? _My_ memory is just fine. I'm sorry as you apparently have me confused with somebody else.


Talking to Cheryl, Thumber. But I am glad to chat with you also.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Doubt your doctor is more informed than I am. if so, it better explains his dreadful lack of knowledge. And we were not discussing Obamacare or Obama - we were discussing your topic on marijuana. Don't you remember? Are you stoned?


SQM" I think you are answering your response to the wrong kp'r here. 
I am the one who is asking about Marijuana. I have not made any comment on Obama.

:roll:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Liz at Furze said:


> It's a really good way for those of us in different countries to see other ways of doing things. I still am not sure whether 'Obamacare' is similar to our National Health Service. It seems to be a cross between the NHS and private health insurance. Am I right?


Liz, it is a plan that offers many more Americans access to health care who did not have it before and for many more reasonable insurance premiums. It also mandates that all insurance whether through the ACA exchange or private insurance that insurance companies must provide basic coverage to everyone and their are free preventative care tests such as mammograms that had to be paid for to encourage people to get in and get care and not wait until you are so sick you can't be helped and also trying to catch things like cancer in it's early treatable stages where it is also much less expensive. If people have private insurance they like they could keep it and if not they could seek better coverage for themselves through the exchange. States seemingly having the most complaints are predominately Republican controlled and did not accept federal aid in the form of Medicaid for the people in their own states and sadly many of their own constituents are now paying because these politicians are hell bent on destroying anything that this President has tried to do for the country. I know you in the UK are well informed on what goes on here so you know what I am talking about. It's sad that a political group will play dirty at the expense of people's health and sometimes even their lives.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Most everyone has to pay for insurance. Albeit some pay nothing. It's an insurance. It's not free care. And it does not guarantee no rate hikes or affordable CARE at all. 20% or more of a million dollars is still a lot of money.
> Many think the preventive part with save money. What preventive care would change a person with COPD,diabetes, or cancer. For preventive care to actually save anyone money will take probably at least 2 or 3 generations. Long after most of us are gone.


WindingRoad the comments you are making are not accurate. Where did you get this information? I would like to refer to your sources so we can discuss before you continue to give out opinions rather than facts. Thank you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

norma j mcguire said:


> Good for you. You are the first I have heard that has it working. What news do you listen too? They said 3,000 signed up, but when they try to use it , it says no coverage.


Norma would you please provide the source of this information and what state this is happening in? I would like to read it so we can discuss and maybe find a solution to the problem.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Remember: "I'm from the government, and I'm here to help"
> Ronald Reagan


Since you won't provide any information as to what is not working and where. It seems that you are only out here because you have your own personal axe to grind. Am I correct? If not, why don't you tell us what has you so unhappy.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

I guess that kids have been cooking with pot for years. I remember my son telling me long ago, "If "so & so" brings brownies, don't touch them because they'll be loaded with pot." Knowing the guy he was talking about, I wasn't too surprised. However, when his brownies appeared, I didn't take any and I didn't stay around to see what happened to anyone who did.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Sounds like you missed a good time, Elder Ellen.


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## cbyrd1 (Jan 16, 2014)

To Cheeky Blighter.... talking of "playing dirty", I'd like to remind you that President Obama, in his furious effort to get the ACA passed by Congress, told the American people 32 times on TV that "if you like your policy you can keep your policy" and "if you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr." knowing full well that what he was saying was a blatant lie! As a result 5-6 million policies were cancelled, including mine, and 5-6 million people were told they could no longer keep the same Primary Care Physician (including me). He did this in order to get his political agenda passed at the expense of the people. Seems to me that the Obama supporters suffer from the onset of short term memory loss.


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## Cheryl Jaeger (Oct 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have never heard any discussions on the pill form. But I think I recall reading they may alter the marijuana and take out the "high" element of the plant. People say that the food version works as well as the smoking. All the medicinal benefits are in the food and smoke plus it is a mood changer. So god made a good plant and very beneficial if understood.


by asking on google : " Pill verses smoking marijuana" 
It is stated:" The pill has longer pain relief than smoking marijuana". Plus; the pill does not create more medical issues as does smoking pot. 
So I've answered my own question. The pill does not give the high that smoking it does. hmmmmm interesting
:idea:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Since you won't provide any information as to what is not working and where. It seems that you are only out here because you have your own personal axe to grind. Am I correct? If not, why don't you tell us what has you so unhappy.


I'm employed and have great insurance. Is that enough for you?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> by asking on google : " Pill verses smoking marijuana"
> It is stated:" The pill has longer pain relief than smoking marijuana". Plus; the pill does not create more medical issues as does smoking pot.
> So I've answered my own question. The pill does not give the high that smoking it does. hmmmmm interesting
> :idea:


Isn't it?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Norma would you please provide the source of this information and what state this is happening in? I would like to read it so we can discuss and maybe find a solution to the problem.


Are you with the government? What solution do you have? Magic?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

The pill has altered marijuana. Nature is always better.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

cbyrd1 said:



> To Cheeky Blighter.... talking of "playing dirty", I'd like to remind you that President Obama, in his furious effort to get the ACA passed by Congress, told the American people 32 times on TV that "if you like your policy you can keep your policy" and "if you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr." knowing full well that what he was saying was a blatant lie! As a result 5-6 million policies were cancelled, including mine, and 5-6 million people were told they could no longer keep the same Primary Care Physician (including me). He did this in order to get his political agenda passed at the expense of the people. Seems to me that the Obama supporters suffer from the onset of short term memory loss.


And that's not covered under the ACA.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Torticollus said:


> It is one thing to be signed up and say you have medical insurance and another to see the accessibility, choices, quality and promptness of care you will receive. Doctors are not happy. They worked hard to get through medical school and are only being reimbursed pennies on the dollar. Many are dropping out.


Toricollus - I am insured through MNSure and it is a God send for me and many others. Are you speaking of ACA or private insurance and what state are you speaking of? I have heard that some doctors are dropping medicare patients and some such as my family doctor are not. ACA is not Medicare. My BIL is a doctor and he is not quitting his practice because he will not be reimbursed as much for his medicare patients. Unless these doctors you speak of are already independently wealthy and totally in it for the money they must continue to work just like the rest of us to pay their bills. If you are going to make comments like that please provide us with the source of your information so we can discuss it and put your comments into context. Thanks.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> The pill has altered marijuana. Nature is always better.


Are you saying you take no pills?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Toricollus - I am insured through MNSure and it is a God send for me and many others. Are you speaking of ACA or private insurance and what state are you speaking of? I have heard that some doctors are dropping medicare patients and some such as my family doctor are not. ACA is not Medicare. My BIL is a doctor and he is not quitting his practice because he will not be reimbursed as much for his medicare patients. Unless these doctors you speak of are already independently wealthy and totally in it for the money they must continue to work just like the rest of us to pay their bills. If you are going to make comments like that please provide us with the source of your information so we can discuss it and put your comments into context. Thanks.


Where are your stats? All you've given us is anecdotal information? Are we to believe you. How long have you been using Obamacare? What 2 or three times?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Liz at Furze said:


> Thanks Janet Cooke. Chit Chat is a great part of this site. It's a way of 'meeting' people and seeing so many different perspectives. It also breaks down so many preconceptions about our different national identities...and a great place for knitting too lol.
> Thanks to all for the insights.


Thanks for participating in the discussion, Liz. Hope you aren't getting hit with the flooding where you are. Sounds like our terrible weather here is what's causing your troubles there. Sorry. :roll:


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Liz, it is a plan that offers many more Americans access to health care who did not have it before and for many more reasonable insurance premiums. It also mandates that all insurance whether through the ACA exchange or private insurance that insurance companies must provide basic coverage to everyone and their are free preventative care tests such as mammograms that had to be paid for to encourage people to get in and get care and not wait until you are so sick you can't be helped and also trying to catch things like cancer in it's early treatable stages where it is also much less expensive. If people have private insurance they like they could keep it and if not they could seek better coverage for themselves through the exchange. States seemingly having the most complaints are predominately Republican controlled and did not accept federal aid in the form of Medicaid for the people in their own states and sadly many of their own constituents are now paying because these politicians are hell bent on destroying anything that this President has tried to do for the country. I know you in the UK are well informed on what goes on here so you know what I am talking about. It's sad that a political group will play dirty at the expense of people's health and sometimes even their lives.


Liz, don't trust what cheeky is telling you. Millions of Americans have had their coverage dropped as a direct result of this poorly written law. obama knew this would happen and LIED to the American public.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Are you saying you take no pills?


I am grateful for some drugs and some aspects of medicine. But it seems like taking the high out of marijuana for the desperately sick is not fair. But let us remember that pills are laboratory reconstructions of plants. All medicine is plant-based, or its counterparts can be found in nature. Good to stick with plants if you have the knowledge.


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## Elder Ellen (Mar 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Sounds like you missed a good time, Elder Ellen.


You might be right! We'll never know.

I guess the whole gang became good solid citizens at some point during these last forty+ years and I'm still here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Liz - believe Cheeky. She described the situation as it is. The Republicans here are spouting distortions that were preached to them by their pols. That is the nature of politics here.


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## caseykey (Jun 14, 2013)

Glad this works for you. Here in SW Florida, I work in a health care clinic and we do not accept this form of healthcare. The doctors do not want it, patients who have enrolled were suppose to have a preferred provider list and insurance card by 2/1. Middle of the month and no list or card. The doctors wonder if they will ever get paid. I feel so sorry for those who really thought this would work.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> MOST are not impacted by the ACA at all.


Thanks for clarifying that, Janet. Also, when people say they lost coverage they were told they could keep that is true. What is not true is that President Obama did not lie when he said that. He was wrong but deceit was not the intention. The truth is that all insurance has to meet minimum requirements now whether through private insurance or ACA. What resulted was private insurance companies raising premiums and or employers deciding not to carry coverage for employees at all. This was not a diabolical plot as Republicans would have you believe it was a mistake. The President didn't want anyone to have "junk" insurance that was being sold in many states and yes it was cheap but if you really got sick and ended up in hospital you were SOL as we say because your insurance wouldn't cover you or would drop you. You would end up with nothing and bankrupt and if you were still alive the rest of the taxpayers would be taking care of you. Take your pick? I would opt tp pay for better coverage and if I needed to buy affordable insurance on the exchange.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am grateful for some drugs and some aspects of medicine. But it seems like taking the high out of marijuana for the desperately sick is not fair. But let us remember that pills are laboratory reconstructions of plants. All medicine is plant-based, or its counterparts can be found in nature. Good to stick with plants if you have the knowledge.


Want to discuss Byetta?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gramjo said:


> Health care....I could write a book on our experiences in this house. I will limit myself to saying how varied care can be. My husband was very ill and we left our home state (where medical facilities are supposedly top-notch) and went to Rochester MN...Mayo Clinic. A world of difference. Nine months of tests at home, still no actual diagnosis. Within 12 hours of arriving there we had a diagnosis. Big things and little things...volunteers push a library cart from room to room...they come and will change the artwork in your room to something you like. When you have a test they actually take you straight in to the test...no sitting in a waiting room .......doctors who are teamed up to suit your needs.....someone in the hospital at all times from your team. Incredible patient care. And in the end the bills were less than the ones from our home state. Why can't this level of care be universal?????


Thanks for sharing some good news. As I have said I live in MN and purchased insurance through our state exchange and with the coverage I have I can also go to Mayo Clinic. When I hear people tell us of the horrors or Obamacare I want to hear their stories as well as the successes but it is sad when people post accurately either because they are not informed or they have a political agenda. I believe I am well informed and I am pro this first step in single payer health care for all Americans. For me it isn't political it is just the right thing to do. If we want to brag about being such a great country then we must pass that ancient test, "see how well they care for the most vulnerable in their society" and we still have ways to go to be the best that we can be.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Liz, don't trust what cheeky is telling you. Millions of Americans have had their coverage dropped as a direct result of this poorly written law. obama knew this would happen and LIED to the American public.


It was just a little white lie. :thumbdown:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for sharing some good news. As I have said I live in MN and purchased insurance through our state exchange and with the coverage I have I can also go to Mayo Clinic. When I hear people tell us of the horrors or Obamacare I want to hear their stories as well as the successes but it is sad when people post accurately either because they are not informed or they have a political agenda. I believe I am well informed and I am pro this first step in single payer health care for all Americans. For me it isn't political it is just the right thing to do. If we want to brag about being such a great country then we must pass that ancient test, "see how well they care for the most vulnerable in their society" and we still have ways to go to be the best that we can be.


How much do you pay a month for your internet connection?


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thumper - I have been having a hard time finding some specialists because I am on medicare. But eventually it all works out and I am paying less than I would for private which kept going up every year. Staying well is the best health insurance, obviously.


Absolutely--invest in health, not medicine. The dividends are infinitely greater.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Absolutely--invest in health, not medicine. The dividends are infinitely greater.


Of course it might take a lot longer but in the scheme of things. Right?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

kiwifrau said:


> Phew! 9 pages so far on this topic. All interesting comments, I feel for you all.
> 
> For years, all I remembered hearing was how many in the US had to go bankrupt if they didn't have medical insurance. How appalling!
> 
> ...


Thanks for weighing in from Canada, kiwifrau! We have just started our journey for healthcare for all. All new undertakings have difficulties and they are being worked through. I hope to see single payer for all of us down the road.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you calling ME names?



Janet Cooke said:


> What do crotchety ol' geeks know?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

TapestryArtist said:


> My son lives in Missouri, is (almost except to be able to get into bed and out by himself) in an electric wheelchair, and he has Medicaid. Maybe you could try again?


Not sure what you mean? Can you explain?


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

cbyrd1 said:


> To Cheeky Blighter.... talking of "playing dirty", I'd like to remind you that President Obama, in his furious effort to get the ACA passed by Congress, told the American people 32 times on TV that "if you like your policy you can keep your policy" and "if you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr." knowing full well that what he was saying was a blatant lie! As a result 5-6 million policies were cancelled, including mine, and 5-6 million people were told they could no longer keep the same Primary Care Physician (including me). He did this in order to get his political agenda passed at the expense of the people. Seems to me that the Obama supporters suffer from the onset of short term memory loss.


I do hope you can get a new health care plan despite the hurdles. I don't know about you but I Really don't need maternity leave!


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Janet Cooke said:


> Did you think that since you are not working the qualifying number of hours that you would do better to opt out of your employer's plan and go independent?
> Why don't you check that out?


Not to mention there's no proof that the reason for the supposed increases (_if that's even a true story_), is due to Obamacare.

In fact, Obamacare is there in large part BECAUSE the increases that have been steadily happening were becoming less and less sustainable.

All I know is that just about EVERYONE who's gone public to say that Obama isn't working for them, when they allow their details to be known by a reporter, that reporter _every time_ finds out that their claims of _not_ being able to AT LEAST find comparable insurance for the same price and usually less through Obamacare, are untrue.

So, I truly take these "horror stories" with a grain of salt now because they SO OFTEN turn out to be mostly, if not 100% UNTRUE.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Of course it might take a lot longer but in the scheme of things. Right?


I think the dividends are pretty immediate. Maybe a bit longer when trying to correct a lifetime of bad habits, but not any longer than drugs which don't cure at all.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Want to discuss Byetta?


I absolutely would love to discuss Byetta. I just know nothing about her. You start.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where do you get that notion from. ACA has everything to do with every thing.


Sadly I see the only reason you are out here is you do have an axe to grind. I won't trouble you again for any factual information as you seem to be only expressing your right wing politics and know nothing about what ACA is or how it really operates. Let's hope you never need it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where do you get that notion from. ACA has everything to do with every thing.


Sadly I see the only reason you are out here is you do have an axe to grind. I won't trouble you again for any factual information as you seem to be only expressing your right wing politics and know nothing about what ACA is or how it really operates. Let's hope you never need it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I would assume that the person who initiated this thread and titled it "Affordable Care Act is Working and so is Obamacare" hoped to control the topic. Didn't you notice that?

Please remove your hateful disrespect for the President of the United State from the thread. There are many other places in this site you will be more satisfied.



suekadkins said:


> This site does not need any conversation about our disaster of a president and his disastrous health care bill. I guess if it works for the person who sent the first post, that is all that matters to her. It certainly isn't working for millions and the fall out has just begun. Please, please keep this site for other things instead of politics. I thought this was the one place I wouldn't have to deal with Obama!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Hmmmmmm how it operates?? Well we might find out tomorrow morning when the president wakes up with an evil laugh and looks at his pen and phone and wonders what the 30th change will be.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I think the dividends are pretty immediate. Maybe a bit longer when trying to correct a lifetime of bad habits, but not any longer than drugs which don't cure at all.


What dividends does a diabetic, COPDer, or a cancer patient reap?


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

damemary said:


> My father used to say, 'if you don't vote, you don't get to complain.'


Or at the very least... you might get to complain, but nobody really gives a rat's butt what they have to say. Nor should they.

The claim that "there's no one to vote for" is just pure BS. Because ultimately SOMEONE is going to be elected... and even if you just come out to vote for the lesser of two evils, you're at least doing you're part to prevent the lesser of two evils from getting elected. Even if you feel like it's not enough, at least you're not _helping_ the worser choice to get elected.

To not vote means you're HELPING the worst candidate.

If you choose to sit on your butt on election day... then whatever ills you suffer via the government ... well, you're getting your just desserts and I personally am not interested in the complaints of the "everything sucks so why do ANYTHING" contingent. They are willfully not part of ANY solution, and just PART OF THE PROBLEM.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And IMHO there are many people determined not to be happy because they hate President Obama. Shoot yourself in the foot....or just keep lying and whining.



WindingRoad said:


> Thank you for the "rest of the story". Just because someONE is happy doesn't mean everyONE is happy.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Sadly I see the only reason you are out here is you do have an axe to grind. I won't trouble you again for any factual information as you seem to be only expressing your right wing politics and know nothing about what ACA is or how it really operates. Let's hope you never need it.


Funny thing is I know more about it than you will ever know. Have I been summarily dismissed again. Can't you keep your propaganda machine healthy?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Karen L said:


> I would not brag so loud about MN being so good. Friends of mine lost the coverage they had and now have to pay 50% of their prescriptions and doctor visits. They are low income and neither is able to work to increase their income. Try telling them that ObamaCare has improved their lives!


Please tell us your story Karen or that of your friends so we can discuss. I am bragging because MNSure is working very well. If your friends have no income as you say where does their money come from for rent or mortgage, groceries and utility bills? They would qualify for Medicaid in MN automatically if that is the case so you are leaving out something. Your story just doesn't add up.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Or at the very least... you might get to complain, but nobody really gives a rat's butt what they have to say. Nor should they.
> 
> The claim that "there's no one to vote for" is just pure BS. Because ultimately SOMEONE is going to be elected... and even if you just come out to vote for the lesser of two evils, you're at least doing you're part to improve things. Even if you feel like it's not enough, at least you're not sitting on your behind doing nothing.
> 
> If you choose to sit on your butt on election day... then whatever ills you suffer via the government ... well, you're getting your just desserts and I personally am not interested in the complaints of the "everything sucks" so why do ANYTHING contingent. They are willfully not part of ANY solution, and just PART OF THE PROBLEM.


No one gives a rat's butt what the voters voted for either. It's a wash.


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## Suzeluvs2stix (Jun 11, 2011)

I never did like kool-aid.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You twist everything else. Why not the Declaration of Independence?



WindingRoad said:


> CYA. The people in rural areas got care before.
> That's the crux of the matter. Are you denying people their land, their way of life, their heritage. Their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Suzeluvs2stix said:


> I never did like kool-aid.


Now that's funny. But I do like the kool aid pitcher guy. He is always smiling!


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

kneonknitter said:


> Since I am a stupid American because I choose not to vote & you do vote, therefore, making you much smarter than I, it's best that I leave this conversation before I get even stupider than I already am & start saying some really stupid things.
> Bye.


Well, you can leave knowing that you gave "stupid" your all! (or I hope so at least)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No. Faux News makes me laugh hysterically until I get hiccups. I prefer others....PBS, CBS, ABC, CNN and print media.



jvoel said:


> That's right Put your head in the sand and don't pay attention to those conservative blogs.. Does it raise your eyebrows if you hear that our president got the award for being the biggest liar of the Year?? of course you probably don't know that as you have only followed the mainstream media. That dreaded Fox News for bringing out the truth. Don't listen to Fox News----It might make you feel just a little uncomforable.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Not to mention there's no proof that the reason for the supposed increases (_if that's even a true story_), is due to Obamacare.
> 
> In fact, Obamacare is there in large part BECAUSE the increases that have been steadily happening were becoming less and less sustainable.
> 
> ...


EVERY TIME? Wow they should be playing the lottery so they don't have to walk a beat.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Norma, I was thinking the same thing. I live in MN and I'm having my doubts about the claim made here. MNsure website has been an unmitigated disaster and only a small number of people have been successful in signing up via the website and the average wait time for the call center has been over an hour. At least that's what all the news sources have been reporting. Also, those who thought they had coverage are finding that, in reality, they don't.


Thumper, as I said I have coverage through MNSure at the platinum level which is 90/10 coverage and I have all my same doctors including specialists, clinics and hospital.  I am paying less because I am no longer paying addtl. for preexisting condition and getting better coverage. I did have trouble initially getting access to the website or getting booted off. THose bugs were worked out and my coverage began Jan.1. I have used my Preferred One card and had no problems. I had so many options to choose from it was hard to narrow it down. The system lets you compare a whole variety of coverages and you just plug in the names of doctors, clinics, etc. you want and see if they participate in that plan. It is very easy. I know what you are saying may have been true a few months back as far as the system problems but it is not true that people who got coverage through MNSure don't have coverage. If you signed up by the deadline and paid your first premium on time you have coverage. If you disagree with me please explain what you mean by no coverage? If the people you know could read they would know they have coverage and what level of coverage they have. I hope you are not just making this up. Thanks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just to be clear. I simply meant that practically speaking, if you live in a rural area, you have to drive farther to reach services that are taken for granted in a metropolitan area. Pick one; you got the other.



Nussa said:


> I feel I need to be a bit more specific of my support of Montana Gramma. As I live in ND, a Republican state, which IS expanding it's Medicaid, support MG in her statement as to living in a rural area, and needing to travel to see their Dr. All of the upper Midwest is a rural area. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or haven't, or what your insurance status, you will still need to travel if you need to see a specialist about a medical prob.
> 
> If we have chosen to live in a rural area, the rest of the US should be thankful we did. Or you wouldn't be able to go to your local grocery store and buy your milk, bread, or any other food product for that matter. So in case some aren't clear on this fact. Milk does not come from the store, it comes from the cow that the farmer in Montana or ND milked. The bread doesn't come from the store, it came from the field of wheat, the farmer plowed, planted & harvested. If not for the rural people, a lot of people would starve to death. As being from a farming state I took offense at Damemary's flippant remark about those who live in rural areas. Just saying.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> No. Faux News makes me laugh hysterically until I get hiccups. I prefer others....PBS, CBS, ABC, CNN and print media.


Yeah CNN is sooooooooooo good. I can hardly stand it . Right up there with the Enquirer.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Just to be clear. I simply meant that practically speaking, if you live in a rural area, you have to drive farther to reach services that are taken for granted in a metropolitan area. Pick one; you got the other.


Why do you choose to ignore the facts we have given you. The rural people we are discussing HAD and still HAVE access to local as in right next door care. Now with NOBAMACARE they have to travel great distances for care. By passing their local ER's to go to another one. Ever hear of the Golden Hour?


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Of By and For The People!
NOT ideology


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Geeks Crotchet said:


> I am happy it is working for you. However, for millions of other people it is not working.


Actually that's essentially the exact opposite of the truth.

It's working for millions, and VERY few of the cases that say it's NOT working for them, turn out to be true. FauxNews has been DESPERATELY searching for tragic examples to blame on Obamacare, but when these people go public, and their details are examined by other people, it turns out their stories are not true at all.

The people who are having trouble are the ones that are being PREVENTED from getting insurance through Obamacare.

But as I've pointed out, that is because of the GOP watering down the bill. The public option ALONE would've allowed the vast majority of the current middle class people finding themselves "in between" (_unable to afford the plans available, but not poor enough to get subsidies_), to get affordable coverage AT LEAST through the public option.

In fact, a couple of GOPers on FauxNews have been proposing a "public option" idea in the last week or two... seemingly OBLIVIOUS to the fact that the only reason we DON'T have that public option now, is because the GOP absolutely refused to even consider it when it was "Obama's idea".

Hell, I'm pretty sure, if the GOP wants to take credit for the public option idea that they unanimously rejected a few years ago, I'm pretty sure Obama will have no problem with helping them with the pretense to help them save face. As long as the public choice is allowed to happen.


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## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

My sentiments exactly Winding Road


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Actually that's essentially the exact opposite of the truth.
> 
> It's working for millions, and VERY few of the cases that say it's NOT working for them, turn out to be true. FauxNews has been DESPERATELY searching for tragic examples to blame on Obamacare, but when these people go public, and their details are examined by other people, it turns out their stories are not true at all.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jayne6666 said:


> yeah! yes yes yes!!
> i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
> and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
> only fox news and people who have NO respect for our President think it is horrible,
> ...


jayne, thanks for sharing your success story. I am very happy to hear it. The naysayers are weighing in and as you notice only a couple of them have told us their stories and things are not working out so well for them. Sadly, they have their Republican politicians to thank for that and in some cases for their states not accepting federal aid to Medicaid or for not setting up their own state exchanges which allows for a lot more competition from a wider variety of providers. The Republicans said they would "do nothing" and this is one of the results and it has hurt the very people they are supposed to take care of and serve.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Geeks Crotchet said:


> I am happy it is working for you. However, for millions of other people it is not working., and I do not appreciate your using this site to talk about Obamacare or any politics. This is not what this site is all about.


YTHeck did you click into the very section, which is OBVIOUSLY captioned as:



> *A place to talk about anything (discussions and pictures not related to knitting).*


???

It's VERY simple, if you ONLY want to talk about knitting stay the heck out of this section.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

President Obama vows to take action with or without Congress. Executive order does NOT allow him to change the law he pushed. He is bound to support and execute laws passed by congress


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Liz at Furze said:


> I don't quite understand what this is. Is 'Obamacare' sort of like our National Health Service?


No, we wish.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> A simple google search provided many, many articles addressing just that. Give it a try. The future looks pretty bleak. NY Post states that 23% out of 409 doctors queried are going to accept ACA patients and many are opting out of taking any kind of insurance. Another article states that 60% of 13,000 doctors surveyed would retire now if they could due to the abysmal reimbursement rates. So, you may have coverage but good luck finding a doctor who will accept it or finding a doctor at all.


Thumper please provide links to your sources so we can read what you read otherwise we have nothing to discuss. Opinions are just that so lets talk.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> A simple google search provided many, many articles addressing just that. Give it a try. The future looks pretty bleak. NY Post states that 23% out of 409 doctors queried are going to accept ACA patients and many are opting out of taking any kind of insurance. Another article states that 60% of 13,000 doctors surveyed would retire now if they could due to the abysmal reimbursement rates. So, you may have coverage but good luck finding a doctor who will accept it or finding a doctor at all.


Thumper please provide links to your sources so we can read what you read otherwise we have nothing to discuss. Opinions are just that so lets talk.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> No, we wish.


YOU might wish. Don't put us all in that place.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ginalola said:


> President Obama vows to take action with or without Congress. Executive order does NOT allow him to change the law he pushed. He is bound to support and execute laws passed by congress


You would think but he doesn't. He'll be gone soon. 2016 is a new day. Let's work on keeping his favorite fan out of the WH.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You would think but he doesn't. He'll be gone soon. 2016 is a new day. Let's work on keeping his favorite fan out of the WH.


Thank you winding road. These actions scare me


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So if it was broke why not fix it. Are you saying ACA has fixed your subsidizing others.
> 
> There never were roadblocks before. Just lazy people. Just like now. Too lazy to even sign up for the bennies they had before.
> 
> ...


WindingRoad I started this thread to discuss ACA or Obamacare which ever you choose to call it. I did not start this thread for you to come out here and air all your grievances about every issue you are unhappy about. If you want to do that go to the Obamacare thread and carry on your drama. Please show the rest of us a little respect and please have a little self respect and leave. You are just blowing smoke and looking like a real sore loser. Thanks and goodbye.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> WindingRoad I started this thread to discuss ACA or Obamacare which ever you choose to call it. I did not start this thread for you to come out here and air all your grievances about every issue you are unhappy about. If you want to do that go to the Obamacare thread and carry on your drama. Please show the rest of us a little respect and please have a little self respect and leave. You are just blowing smoke and looking like a real sore loser. Thanks and goodbye.


Request denied................CYA...


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Ladyj960 said:


> Well, I'm so glad it is working for you. Especially since my premiums and out of pocket expenses increased, since Obama care went into effect


Your premiums and out of pocket expenses rising were and would've continued to do so with our without Obamacare.

However, because of Obamacare, you now have other options.

And because Obamacare holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that Americans receive value for their premium dollars --- insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (8_5% in the large group market_) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must *rebate* the portion of premium that exceeded this limit.


----------



## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

Exactly. The same folks who scream Bush is a liar because he accepted the same bad intelligence Congress and the rest of the world believed are more than willing to give Obama a pass for lying about the results of this crappy law so he could get reelected. I saw a poll yesterday that found 64% of people in the US regret this law was passed--many voted for Obama but now that all the lies and unintended consequences are affecting coverage co-pays and premiums they're sorry they bought into the misrepresentations.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> jayne6666 wrote:
> yeah! yes yes yes!!
> i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
> and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
> ...


nuclearfizz don't you and your husband have private insurance, Medicare or Medicaid? Also, what state do you live in that you cannot get care? Have you looked into ACA for coverage or other financial help? Doesn't sound good for you or your husband.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Your premiums and out of pocket expenses rising were and would've continued to do so with our without Obamacare.
> 
> However, because of Obamacare, you now have other options.
> 
> And because Obamacare holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that Americans receive value for their premium dollars --- insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (8_5% in the large group market_) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must *rebate* the portion of premium that exceeded this limit.


It truly is funny how so many didn't like insurance companies and now they love them. As if they have changed. Just because a lame duck president tells them to. I guess you think they've hired new accountants. Dream on.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Hmmmm. My other options. Pay for maternity leave , child dental care blah blah. 
Menopause child 35. Don't need either. Nor do I want to pay for anyone's birth control. Put a dime between your knees and leave me out of your choices


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Thank you winding road. These actions scare me


2016. He'll be history.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

kammyv4 said:


> I am glad that it is making some of your lives easier. However, those of us that are working and have insurance through our employers are paying more in premiums and higher copays and deductibles.


Not because of Obamacare.

IF you're paying more, it's because there are people WITHOUT health insurance that have to use emergency room care, which is EXORBITANT in cost because there are no negotiated fees and costs.

Since most individuals can't afford those kinds of bills, they don't pay the hospitals and claim bankruptcy, making the hospitals RAISE the costs of their services to compensate, which means were ALL paying for those extra costs, and in a domino effect, that means you end up paying higher premiums because of those rising costs.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> WindingRoad I started this thread to discuss ACA or Obamacare which ever you choose to call it. I did not start this thread for you to come out here and air all your grievances about every issue you are unhappy about. If you want to do that go to the Obamacare thread and carry on your drama. Please show the rest of us a little respect and please have a little self respect and leave. You are just blowing smoke and looking like a real sore loser. Thanks and goodbye.


I've yet to see you post one meaningful stat. Oh wait you haven't posting any stats. Only your take on it all. And you've used it how many times?


----------



## chutetothrill (Jan 22, 2014)

You have got to be kidding!


----------



## chutetothrill (Jan 22, 2014)

You have got to be kidding!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Not because of Obamacare.
> 
> IF you're paying more, it's because there are people WITHOUT health insurance that have to use emergency room care, which is EXORBITANT in cost because there are no negotiated fees and costs.
> 
> Since most individuals can't afford those kinds of bills, they don't pay the hospitals and claim bankruptcy, making the hospitals RAISE the costs of their services to compensate, which means were ALL paying for those extra costs, and in a domino effect, that means you end up paying higher premiums because of those rising costs.


OMG of course there are negotiated fees and costs. I only pay $100 per visit with health insurance. Do you really think that is the cost?

And where is the savings IN COSTS with Obama Care. There are none. The costs of healthcare can only go up.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

This thread is fascinating. The informed and un informed
Main stream media and ideology. Thank you for everyone's input


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

kammyv4 said:


> My point is it doesn't work if your income is above a certain level, you just end up paying more for less.


And that is PURELY and 100% because the GOP REFUSED to allow a public option which would've resolved _at least_ 90% of those people who fall in between like that.

So, next time, tell your GOP representatives, that they shouldn't do these things half-baked because it hurts people like your friends.

You can't support the party that did everything in it's power to sabotage the ACA... they SUCCESSFULLY weakened it by drawing a line in the sand re: the Public Option...

... and then blame Obamacare for not having the public option which would've covered your friends.

That's not a result of Obamacare as it was originally written. It's a result of the watered down version of Obamacare that the GOP insisted upon.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Wow! The word sabotage just gets my furry goat! Obama is the only one changing his own law


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Wow! The word sabotage just gets my furry goat! Obama is the only one changing his own law


I'm with ya......


----------



## Torticollus (Dec 3, 2011)

Yes, I worked across the river from the Canadian border and they came over in droves for their medical tests and CT scans and MRI's. They actually had horror stories about people they knew dying of cancer because they could not get these tests done because they were on waiting lists in Canada - having to wait 6 months or more, etc. That is the way their national healthcare works. Also, many of their own nurses crossed the border to work in the USA hospitals.
I don't really know what the point is in arguing Obamacare - it will prove itself soon enough one way or the other. Then the truth will be known.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Not because of Obamacare.
> 
> IF you're paying more, it's because there are people WITHOUT health insurance that have to use emergency room care, which is EXORBITANT in cost because there are no negotiated fees and costs.
> 
> Since most individuals can't afford those kinds of bills, they don't pay the hospitals and claim bankruptcy, making the hospitals RAISE the costs of their services to compensate, which means were ALL paying for those extra costs, and in a domino effect, that means you end up paying higher premiums because of those rising costs.


Could you please decide who you want to be. CB or VL?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Torticollus said:


> Yes, I worked across the river from the Canadian border and they came over in droves for their medical tests and CT scans and MRI's. They actually had horror stories about people they knew dying of cancer because they could not get these tests done because they were on waiting lists in Canada - having to wait 6 months or more, etc. That is the way their national healthcare works. Also, many of their own nurses crossed the border to work in the USA hospitals.
> I don't really know what the point is in arguing Obamacare - it will prove itself soon enough one way or the other. Then the truth will be known.


The truth always wins. I live on a border state also. The provinces in Canada are much like our states here. Some have lots of money and better health care as a results. Others don't. When will people understand that $$$ talks. It always has.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Nancyn said:


> It did not do anything for me except raise my rate (even with the subsidy) and give me less benefits than what I currently have.


You need to clarify, because it appears you're contradicting yourself.

Are you on an Obamacare plan (with a subsidy) now?

#1 Are you saying "it raised your rates" (_meaning you're on a Plan through Obamacare and it's MORE expensive than what you HAD through your employer..._)?

OR

#2 You still have your old insurance through your employer. And when you checked Obamacare, it's no less expensive.

You seem to be telling to different versions of a story here.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> The truth always wins. I live on a border state also. The provinces in Canada are much like our states here. Some have lots of money and better health care as a results. Others don't. When will people understand that $$$ talks. It always has.


Here's an interesting article about Canada. There are others.

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/01/15/quebec-and-ontario-top-canadas-health-care-rankings-while-newfoundland-lags-behind-study-reveals/

Read the 10th paragraph closely.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> I've yet to see you post one meaningful stat. Oh wait you haven't posting any stats. Only your take on it all. And you've used it how many times?


And statistics from you?
Something about 20% of a million? 
With no explanation?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Torticollus said:


> Yes, I worked across the river from the Canadian border and they came over in droves for their medical tests and CT scans and MRI's. They actually had horror stories about people they knew dying of cancer because they could not get these tests done because they were on waiting lists in Canada - having to wait 6 months or more, etc. That is the way their national healthcare works. Also, many of their own nurses crossed the border to work in the USA hospitals.
> I don't really know what the point is in arguing Obamacare - it will prove itself soon enough one way or the other. Then the truth will be known.


Could you answer those questions I asked you?
If you are a health care professional you really know better than to listen to anecdotal evidence and give it serious credence.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could you answer those questions I asked you?
> If you are a health care professional you really know better than to listen to anecdotal evidence and give it serious credence.


Why are you listening to the OP then. She has no facts just her take on the subject. The snow is working for me.


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

ginalola said:


> President Obama vows to take action with or without Congress. Executive order does NOT allow him to change the law he pushed. He is bound to support and execute laws passed by congress


He has gone BEYOND executive orders. He comes out and arrogantly edicts an order, not even going to the trouble of an executive order. He promised to uphold and honor the Constitution. His honor seems to mean nothing to him. This whole thing has nothing to do with healthcare. It is strictly about POWER.


----------



## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

That is the first I have heard that the GOP had a watered down version that got through the Democrat Senate and the president! Guess I haven't been listening to the main stream media enough so that I know what is going on! Yep! A lotta people done stuck their heads in the sand but I sure don't think it is the GOP!


----------



## lfitzie (Apr 4, 2011)

I am happy that it is working for you. Sad to know that my 27 year old son is picking up the tab for it and he's barely making ends meet.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I completely understand what you're saying,....Gal from ND......


Are you talking about Medicare or Obamacare?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

jvoel said:


> He has gone BEYOND executive orders. He comes out and arrogantly edicts an order, not even going to the trouble of an executive order. He promised to uphold and honor the Constitution. His honor seems to mean nothing to him. This whole thing has nothing to do with healthcare. It is strictly about POWER.


Straight from his mouth.http://www.wtam.com/onair/bob-frantz-2693/devastating-video-exposes-obamas-duplicity-re-executive-orders-must-watch-12068519/


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

I am suddenly swept with gratitude knowing there is somebody who sees what is happening to America as we used to know it. Maybe I'll become a poet now. Teehee


----------



## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

I have a question why is it called the affordable care act when it most definatley is not?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> He has gone BEYOND executive orders. He comes out and arrogantly edicts an order, not even going to the trouble of an executive order. He promised to uphold and honor the Constitution. His honor seems to mean nothing to him. This whole thing has nothing to do with healthcare. It is strictly about POWER.


The problem is nothing he does will please you. If he changes something, he is arrogant and wrong and if he doesn't change it he is arrogant and wrong so you are kind of wasting everyone's time. There is a lot of hate in this country, hate that I thought was getting better, but I was wrong.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

doglady said:


> All my daughter can get is Medicaid. What she had was better and she liked it but despite Mr. Obama's LIE she could not keep it. Thank you Mr. President, she was better off before you HELPED her!!!


Why couldn't your daughter keep her Medicaid? If she already had Medicaid she should still have it. The only things that would change that would be a change in her income or the state where she lives not accepting Federal medicaid for residents and she was dropped for that reason. Neither are President Obama's fault or the fault of ACA. Please explain.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> I have a question why is it called the affordable care act when it most definatley is not?


Great question. My thought is it is affordable for those who don't work for it and costly for those who work for it
As a military vet who bled for it. I wonder who prospers for that


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

craftygac said:


> Lets see now I use to pay ten dollars for my prescription. My insurance shut me down had to buy another. Now I pay $243 for the same drug with the help of obamacare. I don't think so. It gave the insurance companies the right to drop you and you had to resign up. Mass had a great insurance program that the increases in premiums were finally not outrageous can't say that now. My small little asthma container went from $10 dollars to $49.00 so I can't say it is working for me either. If you are not working or on limited income and you never had insurance it might be good for someone but for those of us that have worked hard and I might add still work at 71 it is not working.


Aren't you on Medicare?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

NJG said:


> The problem is nothing he does will please you. If he changes something, he is arrogant and wrong and if he doesn't change it he is arrogant and wrong so you are kind of wasting everyone's time. There is a lot of hate in this country, hate that I thought was getting better, but I was wrong.


That is not hate nor racist it is ideology
Please keep race out of it


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> He has gone BEYOND executive orders. He comes out and arrogantly edicts an order, not even going to the trouble of an executive order. He promised to uphold and honor the Constitution. His honor seems to mean nothing to him. This whole thing has nothing to do with healthcare. It is strictly about POWER.


Do your objections relate to the ACA or to President Obama?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

binkbrice said:


> I have a question why is it called the affordable care act when it most definatley is not?


It is not an Affordable CARE act. The price of care can only rise. If we were paying $26 Billion ( my figure) before does anyone really think we will be paying less. If so I've got some ocean front property in Arizona.... cheap. The COST of healthcare hasn't changed for the better. We are just moving the chess pieces around blindly thinking we can win the match.


----------



## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> And that is PURELY and 100% because the GOP REFUSED to allow a public option which would've resolved _at least_ 90% of those people who fall in between like that.
> 
> So, next time, tell your GOP representatives, that they shouldn't do these things half-baked because it hurts people like your friends.
> 
> ...


How can you say it is not because of obamacare when the changes were made for that very reason and, can you please tell me how much sense it makes to fine people for not having insurance when the reason they don't have it is because they can't afford it, explain that one and say it's not Obamacare I dare you, and before you ask no I don't have it because we pay for insurance thru husbands job but I have family members that are seriously being affected by this.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Great question. My thought is it is affordable for those who don't work for it and costly for those who work for it
> As a military vet who bled for it. I wonder who prospers for that


I am so sorry for your injuries, and so thankful that you are able to work. Don't you get your healthcare through the VA if you were injured?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am so sorry for your injuries, and so thankful that you are able to work. Don't you get your healthcare through the VA if you were injured?


Ha Ha the VA is just another government mismanaged entity.

I'm sure you know that the VA considered a "military acquired" STD a disability but not a severed leg.


----------



## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> It is not an Affordable CARE act. The price of care can only rise. If we were paying $26 Billion ( my figure) before does anyone really think we will be paying less. If so I've got some ocean front property in Arizona.... cheap. The COST of healthcare hasn't changed for the better. We are just moving the chess pieces around blindly thinking we can win the match.


No I don't think that but the way it was addressed the impression was that everyone would be able to afford it and that just is not true.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Nussa said:


> I feel I need to be a bit more specific of my support of Montana Gramma. As I live in ND, a Republican state, which IS expanding it's Medicaid, support MG in her statement as to living in a rural area, and needing to travel to see their Dr. All of the upper Midwest is a rural area. Doesn't matter how much money you have, or haven't, or what your insurance status, you will still need to travel if you need to see a specialist about a medical prob.
> 
> If we have chosen to live in a rural area, the rest of the US should be thankful we did. Or you wouldn't be able to go to your local grocery store and buy your milk, bread, or any other food product for that matter. So in case some aren't clear on this fact. Milk does not come from the store, it comes from the cow that the farmer in Montana or ND milked. The bread doesn't come from the store, it came from the field of wheat, the farmer plowed, planted & harvested. If not for the rural people, a lot of people would starve to death. As being from a farming state I took offense at Damemary's flippant remark about those who live in rural areas. Just saying.


Nussa I grew up in rural MN and was born in ND but not on a farm. I understand very well that rural Americans have to go a distance to see specialists and sometimes a hospital for certain types of care. This has always been true. It didn't just change with Obamacare. My parents wanted to raise us in a rural area like they were and they made that choice knowing that there could be a crisis medical situation that could come up where one of us could die before we got medical care we needed. Like most things in life that was a choice. No one makes you make those decisions but you. Just saying.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

binkbrice said:


> No I don't think that but the way it was addressed the impression was that everyone would be able to afford it and that just is not true.


Assume is such a wonderful word isn't it. I've been telling people that from the very beginning. Many are enthusiastic about it but most have underlying apathy.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am so sorry for your injuries, and so thankful that you are able to work. Don't you get your healthcare through the VA if you were injured?


I work to pay bills and get health care. Pay bills. It's the American way. I don't feel I need to use my hard earned $ to pay for anyone else's health care after I paid for the freedom to work for their own family prosperity


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nussa I grew up in rural MN and was born in ND but not on a farm. I understand very well that rural Americans have to go a distance to see specialists and sometimes a hospital for certain types of care. This has always been true. It didn't just change with Obamacare. My parents wanted to raise us in a rural area like they were and they made that choice knowing that there could be a crisis medical situation that could come up where one of us could die before we got medical care we needed. Like most things in life that was a choice. No one makes you make those decisions but you. Just saying.


It did change. When people have to go right past a hospital they've always used that is a waste of $$ and resources.

And here's your stats:

http://www.keepcarelocal.com/Facts.html


----------



## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Great question. My thought is it is affordable for those who don't work for it and costly for those who work for it
> As a military vet who bled for it. I wonder who prospers for that


I have family members that work but just fall over getting affordable and can't afford what there income says they have to pay.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Don't you dare come after me for taking VA benefits. You insult a great percentage of Americans who give you the right to spew your rhetorical nonesence


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> I have family members that work but just fall over getting affordable and can't afford what there income says they have to pay.


Go to school get educated. Go through the system. Work your way up the chain. Perseverance


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

binkbrice said:


> How can you say it is not because of obamacare when the changes were made for that very reason and, can you please tell me how much sense it makes to fine people for not having insurance when the reason they don't have it is because they can't afford it, explain that one and say it's not Obamacare I dare you, and before you ask no I don't have it because we pay for insurance thru husbands job but I have family members that are seriously being affected by this.


By law, that nasty ol' Obamacare, a person's health insurance cannot be more than 9.5% of their income. That doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

dianecamp2313 said:


> Narrow networks do not include any of the best hospitals and the ACA payments are so low many of the best doctors will not participate so no it's not working for anyone except the insurance companies who hiked up our premiums 25%.


It is working very well in many states. Which one isn't working?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> By law, that nasty ol' Obamacare, a person's health insurance cannot be more than 9.5% of their income. That doesn't seem at all unreasonable to me.


Where is your back up on that?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> I work to pay bills and get health care. Pay bills. It's the American way. I don't feel I need to use my hard earned $ to pay for anyone else's health care after I paid for the freedom to work for their own family prosperity


Did you go into the military before the draft was done away with in 1973? 
If not you chose to join a branch of the armed services. 
Want to share why you went in?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is working very well in many states. Which one isn't working?


Is there a study group that teaches one to spew this rhetoric ?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

dianecamp2313 said:


> Do you consider the 48% who pay zero taxes fair? Or do you have an issue with the financially successful who pay 60% of what they earn as paying too little?


Show your sources where you got the information so we can discuss. Otherwise it is just your opinion. Let's talk with facts.
Thank you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Show your sources where you got the information so we can discuss. Otherwise it is just your opinion. Let's talk with facts.
> Thank you.


Where are your facts?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

#nancypelosi. Pass this bill so we can see what's in it


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Is there a study group that teaches one to spew this rhetoric ?


Why not answer the question?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Why not answer the question?


Was there a question?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MacRae said:


> Speaking only on the insurance issue: I am self employed and pay through the nose to the tune of over $500 a month just for me. I was able to get insurance through a carrier here is South Carolina because of "The Affordable Healthcare Act". The interesting thing is, that this carrier is a coop, which turns any of its profits back to lower insurance for its members. What a novel and great idea! I have better coverage than with my previous carrier who had monopolized the insurance arena here in this state for years.


MacRae - Thanks for sharing your success story with ACA. I am very happy you are getting good care at a price you can afford! I heard about the cooperative and that is a great ideas that other states may want to consider.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, so you're rude too.



WindingRoad said:


> Request denied................CYA...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Elder Ellen said:


> Obviously, this Heath-Care thing was not well thought out. Maybe few people benefit but a lot of us have problems with the new system. If my husband and I were paid by the hour for all the time we have wasted on our phones and computers trying to get our rather simple cases straightened out, we'd have a problem carrying the money to the bank. How do poor people without much education get along in this world?
> 
> We did what we thought was right over the years -- saved for the future, did without the usual luxuries (even, some "necessities"), drove older cars, ate home-cooked meals, kept a garden, made a lot of the kids' clothes, etc. We are fairly comfortable in our old age but then we have not had any major set-backs, yet. We can still keep up with most of our needs and hire help once in a while. We recently did some remodeling and installed some features for handicapped living, hoping we can stay in our home as long as possible.
> 
> ...


Ellen who are these people you are speaking of who have to have it all and you are paying for their mistakes? If you are referring to ACA you are way off the mark. Please explain so we can talk about it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do you seriously see no benefit to you of any of the new rules ?



VocalLisa said:


> Your premiums and out of pocket expenses rising were and would've continued to do so with our without Obamacare.
> 
> However, because of Obamacare, you now have other options.
> 
> And because Obamacare holds health insurance companies accountable to consumers and ensures that Americans receive value for their premium dollars --- insurance companies now must disclose how much they spend on health care and how much they spend on administrative costs, such as salaries and marketing. If an insurance company spends less than 80% (8_5% in the large group market_) of premium on medical care and efforts to improve the quality of care, they must *rebate* the portion of premium that exceeded this limit.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> It is not an Affordable CARE act. The price of care can only rise. If we were paying $26 Billion ( my figure) before does anyone really think we will be paying less. If so I've got some ocean front property in Arizona.... cheap. The COST of healthcare hasn't changed for the better. We are just moving the chess pieces around blindly thinking we can win the match.


Who is we? I am not moving chess pieces, I am taking care of my health. 
The cost of health care is increasing at a much slower pace, health insurance companies are forced to be more efficient, hospitals and doctors are required to be more responsive, testing is more available than every before. 
That doesn't seem like blind chess playing to me. It would appear to be reasonable attempts to control what has been out of control for decades. 
Conservatives want the government to be responsible, accountable, why shouldn't the public be as well?
Why shouldn't my medical dollars go to more efficient and better care? 
Why shouldn't I be able to expect that those who can afford health care coverage to pay for it themselves rather than expect me to bail them out?
Less than 10 percent of a person's income is the cap for health care insurance. Is that really too much to ask? 
And if it is, what is the alternative? 
Can we start saying NO? and why not? 
If someone chooses to spend their money on cable TV and smart phones rather than health insurance why don't we just say "go out back of the barn and curl up?" You should have made better choices. 
That is what people want to say to mothers with children to feed. Why can't we say that to some 23 year old who got himself brain injured on a motorcycle with no insurance coverage?
If some young guy gets his lady pregnant and neither of them has health insurance can we just let them home deliver with no assistance?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

dianecamp2313 said:


> I guess you are unaware that military deaths have increased greatly under Obama--saw the stats just yesterday. He has managed to loose 2 wars we were winning and increased military casualities.
> Pour yourself another glass of liberal koolade...


You already drank it all yourself dear. We don't drink koolaid it's for kids. Are you a kid? What you are saying certainly sounds like things a child would say. You tell me how many soldiers died in the wars when Bush was in office and provide a source and how many died since President Obama took office. If you can provide well known relaible sources for both numbers then we have something we can talk about like grown ups. Otherwise you can move along and play with the kids.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> I have family members that work but just fall over getting affordable and can't afford what there income says they have to pay.


Oh first of all hope you are doing well.

I do hope it is not the one who I am thinking of. Tell her for me hope that things will change and do care for you both.

I don't think any of us will be able to afford it in the end Binky. It is such a mess.

Take care lady.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Ah, so you're rude too.


I guess it takes one to know one. Who called you a greek was it?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bea 465 said:


> Recent article in our local paper indicates the Hispanics in California are paying more for insurance through Obamacare (which they can't afford) and also are unable to go to their regular doctors because their doctors are not part of the health plan.


Bea please post the article so we can discuss. Thank you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You must like the sound of your own voice. Does anyone else find her posts interesting or helpful? I've noticed that many people have asked questions to try to help. No answers are forthcoming. I guess that means they don't want it to work.



WindingRoad said:


> It truly is funny how so many didn't like insurance companies and now they love them. As if they have changed. Just because a lame duck president tells them to. I guess you think they've hired new accountants. Dream on.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You already drank it all yourself dear. We don't drink koolaid it's for kids. Are you a kid? What you are saying certainly sounds like things a child would say. You tell me how many soldiers died in the wars when Bush was in office and provide a source and how many died since President Obama took office. If you can provide well known relaible sources for both numbers then we have something we can talk about like grown ups. Otherwise you can move along and play with the kids.


how about you do your own research or are you afraid too? Ever hear of Benghazi? It was only a few so what is one life in the scheme of thinks. 2016 isn't far off.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where are your facts?


http://www.healthcoverageguide.org/affordable-care-act/additional-issues/employee-rules-and-rights/


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Child dental care would not be a part of health insurance. You reach to try to invent a point.



ginalola said:


> Hmmmm. My other options. Pay for maternity leave , child dental care blah blah.
> Menopause child 35. Don't need either. Nor do I want to pay for anyone's birth control. Put a dime between your knees and leave me out of your choices


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> You must like the sound of your own voice. Does anyone else find her posts interesting or helpful? I've noticed that many people have asked questions to try to help. No answers are forthcoming. I guess that means they don't want it to work.


What is your answer. I bet you think the War on Poverty worked too. Or the War on Drugs or the United States Post Office. Shouldn't we go by past performance?

BTW I don't talk to myself.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Was there a question?


Here are the questions, again.

Did you go into the military before the draft was done away with in 1973? 
If not you chose to join a branch of the armed services. 
Want to share why you went in?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You already drank it all yourself dear. We don't drink koolaid it's for kids. Are you a kid? What you are saying certainly sounds like things a child would say. You tell me how many soldiers died in the wars when Bush was in office and provide a source and how many died since President Obama took office. If you can provide well known relaible sources for both numbers then we have something we can talk about like grown ups. Otherwise you can move along and play with the kids.


Cheeky , you are the one I fought for. Live long and prosper!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> http://www.healthcoverageguide.org/affordable-care-act/additional-issues/employee-rules-and-rights/


Since when is a blog a resource. Show me the Act itself.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> You must like the sound of your own voice. Does anyone else find her posts interesting or helpful? I've noticed that many people have asked questions to try to help. No answers are forthcoming. I guess that means they don't want it to work.


They don't even have to want. It's already been done for them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But will the Democrats win another Presidential Election? I think they will. GOP has offended (more) women, minorities, gays and more. How will this affect GOP chances in2016? Stay tuned.



WindingRoad said:


> 2016. He'll be history.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Montana Gramma said:


> And your Ma. cows eat the wheat and corn and oats that the farmer raises. The 30 s should be a lesson to all urban or rural. Big growers in all states are still farmers, when it frosts the orange juice goes up in price. When bugs and blight kill crops and there is a shortage,remember not everyone has the chance to grow a garden, then do you buy health care or more expensive groceries. Some people have to make that choice. Your way if life hinges on the farmer , I am a product of that lifestyle . If we do not grow it, organic or not , you do not eat or drink it and then no one will have to worry about healthcare, rural or not. City access does not mean cheap travel to the health center either, a taxi, city transit or private car are not cheap when there is no independence.


Montana grandma - as I told you in an earlier post I am from rural America too MN/ND so you said your piece about the importance of farmers and I agree. If the farmers go we all go but this is a thread about healthcare and I will be happy to discuss that with you and if you want to talk about other topics start your own thread and don't do it here. You chose to stay in a rural area and that id fine but their are trade offs for that choice and you have to live with it or move some where closer to the health care you want. My Dad passed Dec. 23rd and he had to go from NE MN down to St. Cloud VA and he couldn't drive anymore so friends took him. He made his choice and dealt with it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Request denied................CYA...


Too bad, because many of us would like to discuss this topic without all the BS. Go write to your Congressmen and senators if you are obviously so disgruntled. Nobody in this thread can change anything for you. Write to the President himself.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

SQM: If he had morals and intelligence to see Bush's lies, what has happen to those morals since he took office? He has lied over and over since taking office. Why doesn't anyone talk about that? He can cover up any lie and people just ignore it and say things like, " That's not what he meant". No one else would get away with what he has said. He has lost his morals along the way.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> But will the Democrats win another Presidential Election? I think they will. GOP has offended (more) women, minorities, gays and more. How will this affect GOP chances in2016? Stay tuned.


No matter what the chances of the GOP, the ACA will still be here. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> What is your answer. I bet you think the War on Poverty worked too. Or the War on Drugs or the United States Post Office. Shouldn't we go by past performance?
> 
> BTW I don't talk to myself.


Maybe you should, perhaps you could get some of these things figured out.

The War on Poverty has not eradicated poverty, nothing every will. There are too many people who are willfully ignorant and won't do what needs to be done to make systems work for them.

The War on Drugs certainly appears to be an unmitigated failure. 
It is too bad that Richard M. Nixon started it and it's too bad that Jimmy Carter never got the chance to end it. 
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9252490

The only problem the USPS has is that certain Congresspersons want it to fold and have saddled the company that runs it with massive, punitive, payments to cover pensions for decades into the future. Otherwise the USPS would be just fine, and BTW, does not use taxpayer funding for support.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Since when is a blog a resource. Show me the Act itself.


Look it up! Maybe you should be doing that and learn something about it so we can really discuss it.
Ps I don't perform in public  

Ps that "blog" posted the rules.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> No I don't think that but the way it was addressed the impression was that everyone would be able to afford it and that just is not true.


Did your state except the medicaid expansion?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Canadians, please give us the benefit of your experience. Somehow I question how someone 'working across the river' would have complete information on the 'droves of Canadians coming to USA' to pay through the nose for medical tests.



Torticollus said:


> Yes, I worked across the river from the Canadian border and they came over in droves for their medical tests and CT scans and MRI's. They actually had horror stories about people they knew dying of cancer because they could not get these tests done because they were on waiting lists in Canada - having to wait 6 months or more, etc. That is the way their national healthcare works. Also, many of their own nurses crossed the border to work in the USA hospitals.
> I don't really know what the point is in arguing Obamacare - it will prove itself soon enough one way or the other. Then the truth will be known.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Montana grandma - as I told you in an earlier post I am from rural America too MN/ND so you said your piece about the importance of farmers and I agree. If the farmers go we all go but this is a thread about healthcare and I will be happy to discuss that with you and if you want to talk about other topics start your own thread and don't do it here. You chose to stay in a rural area and that id fine but their are trade offs for that choice and you have to live with it or move some where closer to the health care you want. My Dad passed Dec. 23rd and he had to go from NE MN down to St. Cloud VA and he couldn't drive anymore so friends took him. He made his choice and dealt with it.


Who died here and left you boss. We can discuss what we want to in this section. Are you paying for her to move. After all you love paying for others healthcare? If you're so gung ho on paying for others why don't you find a deserving family and pay for their healthcare. After all, as you and others state we are paying for them anyway. Why do you need your government to tell you to be charitable?


----------



## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Some people need to make up their minds. You complain when he votes for things you don't like, but then you put him down as being gutless when when he votes no on the Bush war. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways you know...Time to c _ _ p or get off the pot.....


jvoel said:


> May be that is because he didn't have the guts to vote for anything He voted "PRESENT" That is a real leader for just about anything.


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> No. Faux News makes me laugh hysterically until I get hiccups. I prefer others....PBS, CBS, ABC, CNN and print media.


I can tell. I know that you would not dare watch Fox for even one hour when Meghan Kelley is on at 9 pm est. I watch msnbc to see what Ed Scultz Chris Matthews etc. are saying. You would know that this a very serious matter and not deserving of a laugh----no matter what network you watch. Like Ben Carson says, we need to be educated. This is more than about feelings. I find it hard to believe that anybody is able to laugh. It shows that you do not understand the severity of the fact that our Liberty is slowly slipping away. I do hope that you will take a serious look at the situation. Maybe take a listen to Mark Levine. Maybe Liberty is not important--let the Govn't decide your fate.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Canadians, please give us the benefit of your experience. Somehow I question how someone 'working across the river' would have complete information on the 'droves of Canadians coming to USA' to pay through the nose for medical tests.


Question it all you want. Their PM came to the USA for medical treatment for heaven's sake and his sake too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So, if you are ill and you don't have money, you are supposed to die quietly? I thought you guys were against death squads.



WindingRoad said:


> The truth always wins. I live on a border state also. The provinces in Canada are much like our states here. Some have lots of money and better health care as a results. Others don't. When will people understand that $$$ talks. It always has.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Who died here and left you boss. We can discuss what we want to in this section. Are you paying for her to move. After all you love paying for others healthcare? If you're so gung ho on paying for others why don't you find a deserving family and pay for their healthcare. After all, as you and others state we are paying for them anyway. Why do you need your government to tell you to be charitable?


Are you a troll who is possibly trying to hijack the thread? FYI there is a thread called Obamacare in Chit Chat that does nothing but slam Obama. Maybe you would fit in better there?


----------



## ka_avery (Jan 20, 2014)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


I totally agree. We don't need politics on this site. I am sick of hearing about the ACA.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> And that is PURELY and 100% because the GOP REFUSED to allow a public option which would've resolved _at least_ 90% of those people who fall in between like that.
> 
> So, next time, tell your GOP representatives, that they shouldn't do these things half-baked because it hurts people like your friends.
> 
> ...


How can you say that the GOP did a watered down version when your Nancy Pelosi said, "we have to pass this so we can see what's in the bill". Have you thought that maybe the GOP wanted to spend some time figuring out what was entailed before it was enacted? I realize that things are wrong with health care in this country, but when our President has said, " I have a pen and I am going to use it" doesn't necessarily benefit all of us? He picks and chooses what should happen. Why do businesses of over 100 employees get a pass right now, but their employees still have to be covered? There are some things about this whole deal that aren't right for the regular folk...democrats or republican. It is dividing our country and it's not right.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Question it all you want. Their PM came to the USA for medical treatment for heaven's sake and his sake too.


That's strange, because most Canadian's back their health care system up.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

damemary said:


> But will the Democrats win another Presidential Election? I think they will. GOP has offended (more) women, minorities, gays and more. How will this affect GOP chances in2016? Stay tuned.


I am a women, military and a minority. Voting for who will represent the constitution and the American way of life as I remember it used to be!
What do you stand for other than ideology ( as it appears in your post)


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Bea please post the article so we can discuss. Thank you.


I wonder if she means this "local paper".

http://capoliticalnews.com/2014/01/27/chico-familys-health-care-struggle-shows-unaffordable-side-of-covered-california/
It looks like one of those planted stories once again.

1. Prior to the ACA coming into play the family was paying $650/month for coverage for two of them. They are now paying $800./month for all four including the two who couldn't get coverage prior to Omabacare coming into play.

2. Why would anyone join a health plan without checking to see which doctors took it? That just doesn't make sense to me.

3. Same old story, these folks were paying $7800.00 per year for a junk policy that doesn't meet the grade for adequate coverage. It just felt good to think they were doing right by their family. If the father or "healthy" son had needed treatment we can only guess what kind of service they would get.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ka_avery said:


> I totally agree. We don't need politics on this site. I am sick of hearing about the ACA.


You can hit the unwatch button and you won't have to deal with this thread.  This is not really about politics. it is about people and getting affordable health care insurance. Yes, there is a troll here who would like to make it all about politics, but we would rather discuss health care.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Is there a study group that teaches one to spew this rhetoric ?


I'm sorry but Cheeky has been very respectful in every comment she has made. She is not spewing anything. She is asking questions and trying to help herself to better understand and to help others if she can. There really is no need for your comments.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> I can tell. I know that you would not dare watch Fox for even one hour when Meghan Kelley is on at 9 pm est. I watch msnbc to see what Ed Scultz Chris Matthews etc. are saying. You would know that this a very serious matter and not deserving of a laugh----no matter what network you watch. Like Ben Carson says, we need to be educated. This is more than about feelings. I find it hard to believe that anybody is able to laugh. It shows that you do not understand the severity of the fact that our Liberty is slowly slipping away. I do hope that you will take a serious look at the situation. Maybe take a listen to Mark Levine. Maybe Liberty is not important--let the Govn't decide your fate.


You are a fan of Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh perhaps, too?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Logic 101.



ginalola said:


> Is there a study group that teaches one to spew this rhetoric ?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's strange, because most Canadian's back their health care system up.


Here's the deal

http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cn-prime-minister-my-heart-my-choice#.UwA8N5tinSA

The rich have options the rest of us do not.

Just like the rich go to Costa Rica for surgeries and are pampered for weeks as they "recover".


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Nussa said:


> Some people need to make up their minds. You complain when he votes for things you don't like, but then you put him down as being gutless when when he votes no on the Bush war. Make up your mind. You can't have it both ways you know...Time to c _ _ p or get off the pot.....


If you check , I think that you will find he was too gutless TO vote. That is my point. Now , as president, he is on a big power trip. No votes there---just an edict at his whim.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Maybe Admin will move this post to the political section where it belongs.


This is the Chit Chat section so it is right where it belongs. If it doesn't interest you don't read it. It's very simple.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Here's the deal
> 
> http://sweetness-light.com/archive/cn-prime-minister-my-heart-my-choice#.UwA8N5tinSA
> 
> ...


Very true, Janet.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This link provides information directly throuch ACA Act on 9.5% limit.



BrattyPatty said:


> http://www.healthcoverageguide.org/affordable-care-act/additional-issues/employee-rules-and-rights/


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

ginalola said:


> #nancypelosi. Pass this bill so we can see what's in it


What more can be added? This says it all!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> If you check , I think that you will find he was too gutless TO vote. That is my point. Now , as president, he is on a big power trip. No votes there---just an edict at his whim.


An edict at his whim? What about a congress that is collecting our hard earned money for doing absolutely nothing? A congress that refuses to do it's job? I am glad to have him on my side. He is fighting for the poor and the
middle class.


----------



## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Since Obamacare, I have had benefits--my son could stay on my policy much longer, and I no longer have to pay out of pocket for an annual physical. The program is new, we all have to give it time. The insurance companies are unfortunately still in the game, and their bottom line is their profits, not that people can have the peace of mind of having good health care when they need it. Members of Congress, when John Kerry was running for president, only paid $7,000 a year for premium coverage. He said he wanted the rest of America to get as good a deal. What a different world we might be living in right now if only he had been elected. We would never have invaded Iraq for starters!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> how about you do your own research or are you afraid too? Ever hear of Benghazi? It was only a few so what is one life in the scheme of thinks. 2016 isn't far off.


Benghazi was certainly a tragic mistake but not near the scales of the Iraqi and Afghanistan wars.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You should talk to yourself. At least you can agree with you. The rest of us don't.



WindingRoad said:


> What is your answer. I bet you think the War on Poverty worked too. Or the War on Drugs or the United States Post Office. Shouldn't we go by past performance?
> 
> BTW I don't talk to myself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Our state employees' retirement system dropped Cigna and UHC, two excellent companies, and gave us the choice of BCBS or nothing. Charges and copays have gone way up and one friend of mine was even refused coverage for the drug that keeps her alive. Go Obama. Go far away. Very far.


Why don't you go away? You said this shouldn't even be here so why are you adding to "the problem"? You haven't a clue what you are talking about anyway so you are not contributing a thing. Bye Bye now!


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> An edict at his whim? What about a congress that is collecting our hard earned money for doing absolutely nothing? A congress that refuses to do it's job? I am glad to have him on my side.


Do you REALLY THINK he is on your side? He is on his side...the side of taking the values and the America way down. He doesn't care about you.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Elder Ellen said:


> There are still farms in Massachusettes -- not nearly enough to supply all of USA with their produce though. It never was really great farmland so many early settlers moved Westward and found more productive land. I suppose that much of the feed for their milk cattle still comes from the mid-west and western states where large quantities of feed can be produced. Our city gal who drinks Massachusetts milk probably hasn't considered that aspect of the situation, but if she's happy, why rock her boat?


Ellen this thread is about healthcare so please stick to the topic or start a thread of your own. Thanks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

FYI .org does not indicate a blog.



WindingRoad said:


> Since when is a blog a resource. Show me the Act itself.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> If you check , I think that you will find he was too gutless TO vote. That is my point. Now , as president, he is on a big power trip. No votes there---just an edict at his whim.


I posted way back 
<----------------------- there the last time you made that baseless charge on his voting record. 
You should really look it up instead of just spouting whatever story comes to mind.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yeah, maybe the Secret Service will take time to review it.



BrattyPatty said:


> Too bad, because many of us would like to discuss this topic without all the BS. Go write to your Congressmen and senators if you are obviously so disgruntled. Nobody in this thread can change anything for you. Write to the President himself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Progressive (?!) Women's Forum.
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/section_list.jsp
> Go to this page, scroll down and click subscribe.


You really are a smart a__ aren't you dear. Go over to the Obamacare thread with the other RWN like yourself. This is a thread for adults who want to discuss this topic and you are just wasting people's time and space.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

gjz said:


> SQM: If he had morals and intelligence to see Bush's lies, what has happen to those morals since he took office? He has lied over and over since taking office. Why doesn't anyone talk about that? He can cover up any lie and people just ignore it and say things like, " That's not what he meant". No one else would get away with what he has said. He has lost his morals along the way.


You brought up a serious government problem. Once you become President, you owe so many favors that what you believe in gets lost with your obligations to military, industry, finance and other pols. So you may want to call it lying - fine - but that has always been the nature of politics.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Ellen this thread is about healthcare so please stick to the topic or start a thread of your own. Thanks.


Who died and left you boss here. Let's talk about the price of tea in China.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As a great person says, 'Happy Dance!'



BrattyPatty said:


> No matter what the chances of the GOP, the ACA will still be here. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Revan (Jun 29, 2011)

Actually it is the "Affordable Care Act" not Obamacare. They call it Obamacare because so many people do not like the President of their country.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You really are a smart a__ aren't you dear. Go over to the Obamacare thread with the other RWN like yourself. This is a thread for adults who want to discuss this topic and you are just wasting people's time and space.


Really?????? You can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. Just because it's working for you, and I seriously doubt that doesn't mean it's working for every body. Get over yourself.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

mzmom1 said:


> Progressive (?!) Women's Forum.
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/section_list.jsp
> Go to this page, scroll down and click subscribe.


You go there and knock yourself out dear. Too lazy to start your own thread?


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are a fan of Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh perhaps, too?


And you would say this, because?...it's really relevant to the discussion. Personal liberties are under attack, and sometimes it is so subtle we don't see it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ginalola said:


> I am a women, military and a minority. Voting for who will represent the constitution and the American way of life as I remember it used to be!
> What do you stand for other than ideology ( as it appears in your post)


ginalola, please don't think we are not appreciative that you put your life on the line for our country. I will say it, thank you! Our country has changed and evolved since the Constitution was written. We are more diverse than we have ever been with immigrants and refugees. Our Statue of Liberty says "Give us your hungry and poor"..
We have them and we have to make sure that they aren't lost in the greedy society we have become. 
I'm dropping a quarter in the jukebox just for you. We may not agree on the ACA, but we are fellow countrywomen when it comes down to it. So stand up and do the Funky Chicken and enjoy!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> FYI .org does not indicate a blog.


That is as close as you are going to get to the law from me, winding road. 
If that isn't good enough, you will just have to grab your big girl search engine and work on it yourself. 
http://housedocs.house.gov/energycommerce/AFFORDABILITY.pdf


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Revan said:


> Actually it is the "Affordable Care Act" not Obamacare. They call it Obamacare because so many people do not like the President of their country.


Again a rose by any other name. They could have named it the Somewhat Affordable Insurance Act. That would have been a better name. Besides it isn't the Affordable Care Act either.

It's full and accurate name is the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act. So it's a double lie. LOL


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are a fan of Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh perhaps, too?


Check them out before you criticize. Have you listened to them, or only to their critics? I dare you to listen and decide for yourself. Don't pride yourself on being a puppet to the critics. Do you hear them personally , I ask once again? I am not being critical of you if you have listened and made up your own mind. I am questioning that fact.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe they sent the troll to us.



BrattyPatty said:


> Are you a troll who is possibly trying to hijack the thread? FYI there is a thread called Obamacare in Chit Chat that does nothing but slam Obama. Maybe you would fit in better there?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

gjz said:


> And you would say this, because?...it's really relevant to the discussion. Personal liberties are under attack, and sometimes it is so subtle we don't see it.


And personal responsibility is on the rise. YAY!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> And you would say this, because?...it's really relevant to the discussion. Personal liberties are under attack, and sometimes it is so subtle we don't see it.


 Exactly what personal liberties have been taken from you? What liberties do you think you will lose?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

jvoel said:


> Check them out before you criticize. Have you listened to them, or only to their critics? I dare you to listen and decide for yourself. Don't pride yourself on being a puppet to the critics. Do you hear them personally , I ask once again? I am not being critical of you if you have listened and made up your own mind. I am questioning that fact.


Yet another incarnation.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> You must like the sound of your own voice. Does anyone else find her posts interesting or helpful? I've noticed that many people have asked questions to try to help. No answers are forthcoming. I guess that means they don't want it to work.


I think that is the bottom line here, the people complaining don't really want it to work. They don't really want answers, because they make vague comments and won't really answer any questions, because they are afraid they might get an answer. The republicans have spent millions of dollars to put as much false information out there as they possibly can so as to scare people into believing it won't work. Many elderly people were scared of it before it started and it doesn't even affect Medicare. I have Medicare and a supplement and Part D and the ACA has nothing to do with any of it. If any of you that are complaining are age 65 or older, the ACA does not affect you. The ACA had a problem in the roll out but that has been fixed so don't give up on it. If you have listened to all the horror stories on Fox News, I would say probably 99% of them have been proven to be a lie. Fox News did not do any verification of these stories before they let them on and when they were checked out they were found to be not true. If you hate the ACA, there is nothing I can do about it, but please don't make it terrible for everyone else. Someone who has no healthcare will read your comments and believe there is no chance for them and will continue to go without. Please lets get back to being the caring people that this country use to be made up of.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

ka_avery said:


> I totally agree. We don't need politics on this site. I am sick of hearing about the ACA.


Then I am sorry, but you really should un-watch , Dear Friend. I hate to make you sick with our discussion. Maybe checking out tea cozies in the knitting section is more appropriate for you GI tract.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Yes, you must have. Libya and Uganda. He also ordered drone attacks on Pakistan and wanted to do the same on Egypt but the backlash was so great that he backed down.


Thumper in case you didn't notice this thread is about healthcare. All you are doing now is showing that RWN like yourself have nothing of value to offer in any discussion and you come and crap all over other people's threads just because you can. Well you go right ahead and prove me right cause you aren't smart enough to bring anything to the table and you will show everyone on KP how real Republican Christian women conduct themselves. Shame on you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Was their PM unable to jump to the head of the line in Canada?



BrattyPatty said:


> That's strange, because most Canadian's back their health care system up.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

dianejohnson said:


> i agree!! we have to pay for it anyway. he should be getting this support. someone who deserves it should be getting it!


A voice of reason. Thank you, Diane.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> Check them out before you criticize. Have you listened to them, or only to their critics? I dare you to listen and decide for yourself. Don't pride yourself on being a puppet to the critics. Do you hear them personally , I ask once again? I am not being critical of you if you have listened and made up your own mind. I am questioning that fact.


I have listened to them and read one of Glenn's book which cost me 10 hours of my life that I can never recover.
They are entertainers. They are paid to scare the hell out of you! Death squads etc. dictatorship.....Talking heads are all they are.
I do not see the country in the same light as they do, nor do I see that beating down people who are already down on their luck the American way.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Who died here and left you boss. We can discuss what we want to in this section. Are you paying for her to move. After all you love paying for others healthcare? If you're so gung ho on paying for others why don't you find a deserving family and pay for their healthcare. After all, as you and others state we are paying for them anyway. Why do you need your government to tell you to be charitable?


Somebody is talking like a Maineiac.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Exactly what personal liberties have been taken from you? What liberties do you think you will lose?


For one...the ability to take care of your family as you see fit. 
The government was not designed to "take care of you". No government entity will "save" you. It is each persons responsibility to provide for themselves and to rely on others in time of need....not for a life time. Our government is trying to evolve and make people dependent upon "them" instead of providing for themselves. N


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper in case you didn't notice this thread is about healthcare. All you are doing now is showing that RWN like yourself have nothing of value to offer in any discussion and you come and crap all over other people's threads just because you can. Well you go right ahead and prove me right cause you aren't smart enough to bring anything to the table and you will show everyone on KP how real Republican Christian women conduct themselves. Shame on you.


Maybe she got lost and thinks she is in the ever bashing Obamacare thread?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> I think that is the bottom line here, the people complaining don't really want it to work. They don't really want answers, because they make vague comments and won't really answer any questions, because they are afraid they might get an answer. The republicans have spent millions of dollars to put as much false information out there as they possibly can so as to scare people into believing it won't work. Many elderly people were scared of it before it started and it doesn't even affect Medicare. I have Medicare and a supplement and Part D and the ACA has nothing to do with any of it. If any of you that are complaining are age 65 or older, the ACA does not affect you. The ACA had a problem in the roll out but that has been fixed so don't give up on it. If you have listened to all the horror stories on Fox News, I would say probably 99% of them have been proven to be a lie. Fox News did not do any verification of these stories before they let them on and when they were checked out they were found to be not true. If you hate the ACA, there is nothing I can do about it, but please don't make it terrible for everyone else. Someone who has no healthcare will read your comments and believe there is no chance for them and will continue to go without. Please lets get back to being the caring people that this country use to be made up of.


I am 62 and still work 40+ hours a week. It's those that love ACA who don't work. Get your facts straight.

What a convenient excuse to not sign up for healthcare AGAIN. Just because they saw someone complaining about it on the internet. Please can't you come up with anything better than that?

Wasn't it Jesus who said Give them a fish they eat for a day, Teach them to fish and they eat forever. Do you really think we give people self esteem, honor etc by giving them everything they refuse to get for themselves?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I vote my mind and my heart. I guess we have very different ideas of who represents all the people and the best opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.



ginalola said:


> I am a women, military and a minority. Voting for who will represent the constitution and the American way of life as I remember it used to be!
> What do you stand for other than ideology ( as it appears in your post)


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have listened to them and read one of Glenn's book which cost me 10 hours of my life that I can never recover.
> They are entertainers. They are paid to scare the hell out of you! Death squads etc. dictatorship.....Talking heads are all they are.
> I do not see the country in the same light as they do, nor do I see that beating down people who are already down on their luck the American way.


http://www.inquisitr.com/692153/glenn-beck-apologizes-for-divisive-rhetoric/


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Exactly what personal liberties have been taken from you? What liberties do you think you will lose?


For one...the ability to take care of your family as you see fit. 
The government was not designed to "take care of you". No government entity will "save" you. It is each persons responsibility to provide for themselves and to rely on others in time of need....not for a life time. Our government is trying to evolve and make people dependent upon "them" instead of providing for themselves.

The government is creating a " poor me" mentality that will lead to no good..


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> For one...the ability to take care of your family as you see fit.
> The government was not designed to "take care of you". No government entity will "save" you. It is each persons responsibility to provide for themselves and to rely on others in time of need....not for a life time. Our government is trying to evolve and make people dependent upon "them" instead of providing for themselves. N


Pull your self up by your own boot straps, right? Well, some people don't have the boots to pull the straps on. 
I have heard this rhetoric repeated over and over again.

The ACA is not telling you how to raise your family. It is making it easier for people without health insurance to get it. It is not free.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I vote my mind and my heart. I guess we have very different ideas of who represents all the people and the best opportunity for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.


Don't you have to wonder how a person who uses the words woman and minority as a description of who she is can align herself with conservative values?


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## Nussa (Jul 7, 2011)

Well, I guess he got tired of having no say at all. The Republicans embraced the Tea party, and wouldn't let President Obama get a word, or a vote in edgewise, be they good, bad, or indifferent. The Rep's & TP took a gamble and lost. Now they, and their constituents are paying for it. Go blame the Republican's & Tea Party. They pushed things to where they are now. You know what they say, "What goes around, comes around." I don't know why some people are so surprised. I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw this coming.



jvoel said:


> If you check , I think that you will find he was too gutless TO vote. That is my point. Now , as president, he is on a big power trip. No votes there---just an edict at his whim.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> For one...the ability to take care of your family as you see fit.
> The government was not designed to "take care of you". No government entity will "save" you. It is each persons responsibility to provide for themselves and to rely on others in time of need....not for a life time. Our government is trying to evolve and make people dependent upon "them" instead of providing for themselves.
> 
> The government is creating a " poor me" mentality that will lead to no good..


Yeah whatever. We are trying to discuss healthcare here.
Try Obamacare in chit chat. All the anti government people hang out there.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I am 62 and still work 40+ hours a week. It's those that love ACA who don't work. Get your facts straight.
> 
> What a convenient excuse to not sign up for healthcare AGAIN. Just because they saw someone complaining about it on the internet. Please can't you come up with anything better than that?
> 
> Wasn't it Jesus who said Give them a fish they eat for a day, Teach them to fish and they eat forever. Do you really think we give people self esteem, honor etc by giving them everything they refuse to get for themselves?


The ACA is not free. people have to pay for it.
teach a man to fish and he'll be out on the lake all day drinking beer.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

gjz said:


> For one...the ability to take care of your family as you see fit.
> The government was not designed to "take care of you". No government entity will "save" you. It is each persons responsibility to provide for themselves and to rely on others in time of need....not for a life time. Our government is trying to evolve and make people dependent upon "them" instead of providing for themselves.
> 
> The government is creating a " poor me" mentality that will lead to no good..


Who do you know who is looking for the government to save him or her? 
I am curious what are your ideas on corporate welfare? 
How do you view all of the massively profitable companies that didn't pay a penny in income tax? 
Are they playing "poor me"? Or is it only people who actually don't have enough money to live on?
How about those tax credits employers get for providing health insurance plans?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Pull your self up by your own boot straps, right? Well, some people don't have the boots to pull the straps on.
> I have heard this rhetoric repeated over and over again.
> 
> The ACA is not telling you how to raise your family. It is making it easier for people without health insurance to get it. It is not free.


It will NOT result in lower health care costs though will it? People will be lulled into thinking they can have procedures that they can't afford. And then they will be in debt again because of unpaid medical bills. 20% of a million dollars is still a lot of money. And now there is no cap on what you can "charge" so people will still be in over their heads. If the Bill had fixed the real problem it would have been great. It didn't. It isn't.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Nussa said:


> Well, I guess he got tired of having no say at all. The Republicans embraced the Tea party, and wouldn't let President Obama get a word, or a vote in edgewise, be they good, bad, or indifferent. The Rep's & TP took a gamble and lost. Now they, and their constituents are paying for it. Go blame the Republican's & Tea Party. They pushed things to where they are now. You know what they say, "What goes around, comes around." I don't know why some people are so surprised. I'm sure I'm not the only one who saw this coming.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Yeah Farmer in this country, you feed us better then any other country. You do not always make money as crops may fail. But you keep going. I am proud of each one of you.
> 
> Thank You with out you what would we do import food from where? Seem some don't bother to think of that do they.
> 
> ...


Yarnie - Nice to see you. You must be lost. This thread is about healthcare not farming. You may want to start one on that topic and invite your friends. Take care!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> It will NOT result in lower health care costs though will it? People will be lulled into thinking they can have procedures that they can't afford. And then they will be in debt again because of unpaid medical bills. 20% of a million dollars is still a lot of money. And now there is no cap on what you can "charge" so people will still be in over their heads. If the Bill had fixed the real problem it would have been great. It didn't. It isn't.


People are smart enough to read their policies and if they don't understand them there are plenty of places to go for help.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> It will NOT result in lower health care costs though will it? People will be lulled into thinking they can have procedures that they can't afford. And then they will be in debt again because of unpaid medical bills. 20% of a million dollars is still a lot of money. And now there is no cap on what you can "charge" so people will still be in over their heads. If the Bill had fixed the real problem it would have been great. It didn't. It isn't.


Your opinion. However it was not designed to bring down the cost of healthcare. It is about INSURANCE.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

dianejohnson said:


> well, we're at a point where we need a DIFFERENT set of jerks, so if you would just consider voting for that, it might make a big difference.


Amen! :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Don't you have to wonder how a person who uses the words woman and minority as a description of who she is can align herself with conservative values?


Maybe she is both. Maybe she see things as they are not as a dream world.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Don't you have to wonder how a person who uses the words woman and minority as a description of who she is can align herself with conservative values?


I can understand her. Maybe there were no other real options , and if you are lucky enough to survive, you get great benefits. Being in the military may have been a godsend.

But that is why it is so unjust. The poor and the minorities do not have the same opportunities as those who do not need the military as a means of escape. How fortunate they are.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Amen! :thumbup:


Wait you want to get rid of the Jerks now. Talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> It will NOT result in lower health care costs though will it? People will be lulled into thinking they can have procedures that they can't afford. And then they will be in debt again because of unpaid medical bills. 20% of a million dollars is still a lot of money. And now there is no cap on what you can "charge" so people will still be in over their heads. If the Bill had fixed the real problem it would have been great. It didn't. It isn't.


You haven't read any of the information anyone has posted, have you?
You are directly refuting everything that has been posted tonight. 
You are just following some script sent to you by Gov. LePage, aren't you?


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It is making it easier for people without health insurance to get it. It is not free.


No. It is about making people dependent upon the government to save them. That is the way of the progressives.

If your statement is true, why is it that 80% of the people who have signed up have had insurance before? Where are all these uninsured people?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> I do have a question pertaining to Medical Marijuana: From what I have heard Marijuana in pill form does the same thing as smoking it for pain relief and all the other things it is good for. Is this true?


Yes, for some purposes they do put it in pill form. I know for children being treated for pain and for seizure control as obviously they can't smoke it. Love your avatar!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> I can understand her. Maybe there were no other real options , and if you are lucky enough to survive, you get great benefits. Being in the military may have been a godsend.
> 
> But that is why it is so unjust. The poor and the minorities do not have the same opportunities as those who do not need the military as a means of escape. How fortunate they are.


You call the military a "means of escape" Really???????


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, for some purposes they do put it in pill form. I know for children being treated for pain and for seizure control as obviously they can't smoke it. Love your avatar!


Why can't kids smoke it?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The ACA is not free. people have to pay for it.
> teach a man to fish and he'll be out on the lake all day drinking beer.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> I can understand her. Maybe there were no other real options , and if you are lucky enough to survive, you get great benefits. Being in the military may have been a godsend.
> 
> But that is why it is so unjust. The poor and the minorities do not have the same opportunities as those who do not need the military as a means of escape. How fortunate they are.


I asked her about why she joined, Nada. 
Having few options is no reason to join with those who want to maintain the status quo so that your children and your children's children have few options.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> You haven't read any of the information anyone has posted, have you?
> You are directly refuting everything that has been posted tonight.
> You are just following some script sent to you by Gov. LePage, aren't you?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gjz said:


> Now the government is saying that it's a good thing people have Obamacare! They can choose if they want to work! Isn't that great? NOT! It's not okay for people who can work...to choose not to and get a break. I'm not talking about those who need it---there is too much room for people to take advantage of the system. America became what it is because of people working hard to become better. This is slowly being eroded as a value in our nation.


Yes it is a very good thing and I have it and guess what we work. Those who can't work get Medicaid. I pay insurance premiums. Is there anything else you would like to know. Obviously you are not informed but I would be happy to help you.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yeah whatever. We are trying to discuss healthcare here.
> Try Obamacare in chit chat. All the anti government people hang out there.


I am not anti-government.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> You haven't read any of the information anyone has posted, have you?
> You are directly refuting everything that has been posted tonight.
> You are just following some script sent to you by Gov. LePage, aren't you?


I thought you said bye bye. You're a republican I can't believe you.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Quick reminder
The ACA is adapted from Romney and the Heritage Foundation, those two bastions of conservative, republican thought. Some of us wanted a single -payer system.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> You call the military a "means of escape" Really???????


Yes. Plenty of people have used military service to escape the backwoods of Maine.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> No. It is about making people dependent upon the government to save them. That is the way of the progressives.
> 
> If your statement is true, why is it that 80% of the people who have signed up have had insurance before? Where are all these uninsured people?


If people who have had insurance already are signing up, maybe they are looking to lower their premiums and to get better coverage at a lower premium. The government is not providing the insurance. Insurance companies are.
Over 100,00 uninsured have signed up for ACA in Minnesota alone. Do a google search or whatever search you want. Texas has the highest count of uninsured people in the country.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it is a very good thing and I have it and guess what we work. Those who can't work get Medicaid. I pay insurance premiums. Is there anything else you would like to know. Obviously you are not informed but I would be happy to help you.


i could retire tomorrow and collect Obamacare. For less than $300 a year. And you could help support me. How's that for being nice to one of your fellow citizens.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> i could retire tomorrow and collect Obamacare. For less than $300 a year. And you could help support me. How's that for being nice to one of your fellow citizens.


No you couldn't "collect Obamacare". Maybe medicaid or Medicare.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Yes. Plenty of people have used military service to escape the backwoods of Maine.


And you consider serving our country an ESCAPE? I bet more have used it from MASS.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> You call the military a "means of escape" Really???????


Not at all. Avoiding the military is a means of escape for those who do not need it to better their lot, which is usually the case for the underclass.

Do you believe for one second that I would ever write anything you do not agree with?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No you couldn't "collect Obamacare". Maybe medicaid or Medicare.


I most certainly could. I'm 62 when did Medicare start before 65?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Why can't kids smoke it?


Why would you want kids smoking it? If their lungs are in good shape, why ruin a good thing?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gjz said:


> Now the government is saying that it's a good thing people have Obamacare! They can choose if they want to work! Isn't that great? NOT! It's not okay for people who can work...to choose not to and get a break. I'm not talking about those who need it---there is too much room for people to take advantage of the system. America became what it is because of people working hard to become better. This is slowly being eroded as a value in our nation.


You are very misguided if you believe that. Let's see the relaible source of your information. If you can't provide it may I suggest you join the RWN on the Obamacare thread. You will be right at home.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I asked her about why she joined, Nada.
> Having few options is no reason to join with those who want to maintain the status quo so that your children and your children's children have few options.


People who want to maintain the status quo are obviously benefiting from it, or think they will. I believe people support their class interest.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I most certainly could. I'm 62 when did Medicare start before 65?


You are on the wrong winding path. I have Medicare and I am well under 60. Obamacare is not welfare. It is not free. If you can get it for under 300.00 a year then I think you have been smoking "it".


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Somebody is talking like a Maineiac.


Damn Straight. At least I'm not a MaSSH*le.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are on the wrong winding path. I have Medicare and I am well under 60.


Then you lied about your age.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> i could retire tomorrow and collect Obamacare. For less than $300 a year. And you could help support me. How's that for being nice to one of your fellow citizens.


And that is the real problem, of course, because with all this talk about not being able to afford the insurance we can be pretty sure that she isn't supporting anyone's need for health care. 
Her problem is that she isn't getting a piece of the action.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Damn Straight. At least I'm not a MaSSH*le.


We don't care where the bridge you live under is. Go read the ACA and come back for intelligent discussion. You have no idea what it is all about and obviously you don't want to.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> We don't care where the bridge you live under is. Go read the ACA and come back for intelligent discussion. You ahve no idea what it is all about and you don't want to know.


You don't know what you are talking about you can't even quote it correctly.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are very misguided if you believe that. Let's see the relaible source of your information. If you can't provide it may I suggest you join the RWN on the Obamacare thread. You will be right at home.


I am not sure how I am misguided...I believe it was Jay Carney who said it was a great thing that people could choose if they wanted to work. I also believe it was Hilary Clinton who said that if you were an artist then you didn't have to work because you could now be covered by insurance. How is that good for our country? I may have my people wrong, but it was shown via video on NBC... Not Fox as many of you would think.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> We don't care where the bridge you live under is. Go read the ACA and come back for intelligent discussion. You have no idea what it is all about and obviously you don't want to.


Thank God I have a bridge over my head.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I love it when elderly women get nasty. They are even better than "The Women".


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Then you lied about your age.


I did? Nope. Wrong again.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Thank God I have a bridge over my head.


Yes, you should be grateful. Most trolls live in caves. Very cold and damp I hear. Not good for old bones. And no address to give to sign up for the ACA.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cbyrd1 said:


> I'm suspicious of the "much smaller premium" you say you are getting because everyone I talk to tells me their premiums are higher than what they were paying before.
> 
> The only people I know who are paying smaller premiums are those that are receiving a subsidy from the government to help pay the premium. In which case, the other tax payers are paying the extra!


You are wrong and I know because I have insurance through ACA. I don't qualify for a credit because of my income but I still am getting better coverage for less because the preexisting penalty has been abolished for everyone. No taxpayers are footing my bill and if I qualified for Medicaid it wouldn't be someone from your state picking up the tab. It's not nice to make up stories dear. Didn't your mother teach you that. Wht don't you go to the Obamacare thread with the rest of the RWN. They would love to have your company. When you want to have an intelligent conversation you come back.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> We don't care where the bridge you live under is. Go read the ACA and come back for intelligent discussion. You have no idea what it is all about and obviously you don't want to.


So...you have read all 1000 pages or so? Nancy Pelosi didn't before she voted for it.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, you should be grateful. Most trolls live in caves.


How would you know that? First hand experience?


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, you should be grateful. Most trolls live in caves.


Now that's just mean.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> So...you have read all 1000 pages or so? Nancy Pelosi didn't before she voted for it.


I'm not Nancy Pelosi.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

gjz said:


> So...you have read all 1000 pages or so? Nancy Pelosi didn't before she voted for it.


Too bad you didn't finish it. You missed the good parts.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

jannetie said:


> I don't know about the pills, but have been told by a doctor the sublingual liquid works the same way.


I think you may be right especially for younger children who would have trouble with pills.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> Now that's just mean.


Not really. Just honest. WindingRoad only wants to fight.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are wrong and I know because I have insurance through ACA. I don't qualify for a credit because of my income but I still am getting better coverage for less because the preexisting penalty has been abolished for everyone. No taxpayers are footing my bill and if I qualified for Medicaid it wouldn't be someone from your state picking up the tab. It's not nice to make up stories dear. Didn't your mother teach you that. Wht don't you go to the Obamacare thread with the rest of the RWN. They would love to have your company. When you want to have an intelligent conversation you come back.


Why don't you stop telling people where to go. They just might have to tell you where to go.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I did? Nope. Wrong again.


Oh you mean ESRD or disability for years. We call that by a name I'm sure you know what it is.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Oh you mean ESRD or disability for years. We call that by a name I'm sure you know what it is.


Nope. I am signing off for the night, Cheeky. have to pack for Vegas. WindingRoad, stay roasty toasty under that bridge and I hope one day you will open up your mind to what is and what is not.
Good night.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Out of consideration for others if you do not want to discuss healthcare please take your topics to another thread. This one is getting off topic and hard to follow. Thanks for trying to stay on topic and keeping things above board. I know we disagree but this is not the slam Obama thread. That would be the Obamacare thread. Cheeky :thumbup: 

P.S. Remember if you dump trash on other's threads it only makes the dumper look bad not me. :-D


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

gjz said:


> I am not sure how I am misguided...I believe it was Jay Carney who said it was a great thing that people could choose if they wanted to work. I also believe it was Hilary Clinton who said that if you were an artist then you didn't have to work because you could now be covered by insurance. How is that good for our country? I may have my people wrong, but it was shown via video on NBC... Not Fox as many of you would think.


It is a great thing that if someone wants to start a business he/she can have health insurance while their income is limited. 
It is a wonderful thing if someone is losing their ability to work fulltime and can cut back their hours so that they can have insurance without putting in the employer's required hours. 
It is fantastic that a mother or father who wants to return to work part time when they have small children so that they can guide them through their early years can opt into that practice. 
It is quite sad that some people can't see so many advantages to the freedom this will allow. 
There is no downside for the economy. 
There are always people looking for work, I believe a figure in the high four percentile is considered full employment.

This system can be just like jobsharing without the expense to the employer. The job creators are allowed to save money and create more jobs. Isn't that wonderful?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nope. I am signing off for the night, Cheeky. have to pack for Vegas. WindingRoad, stay roasty toasty under that bridge and I hope one day you will open up your mind to what is and what is not.
> Good night.


Bon Voyage Young Brat. Bring your laptop so you can continue.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nope. I am signing off for the night, Cheeky. have to pack for Vegas. WindingRoad, stay roasty toasty under that bridge and I hope one day you will open up your mind to what is and what is not.
> Good night.


BYE BYE. Can't say I'll miss you . That would be a lie.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Bon Voyage Young Brat. Bring your laptop so you can continue.


I just may do that SQM! carry on the good fight,lady!


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nope. I am signing off for the night, Cheeky. have to pack for Vegas. WindingRoad, stay roasty toasty under that bridge and I hope one day you will open up your mind to what is and what is not.
> Good night.


You're not supposed to report that you are going on vacation...bad people out there.


----------



## chutetothrill (Jan 22, 2014)

I can't believe anyone is still defending that joke in the Whitehouse.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> BYE BYE. Can't say I'll miss you . That would be a lie.


Gee, I am heartbroken and doubt I will sleep tonight.....not.
Later. Way later I hope.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is a great thing that if someone wants to start a business he/she can have health insurance while their income is limited.
> It is a wonderful thing if someone is losing their ability to work fulltime and can cut back their hours so that they can have insurance without putting in the employer's required hours.
> It is fantastic that a mother or father who wants to return to work part time when they have small children so that they can guide them through their early years can opt into that practice.
> It is quite sad that some people can't see so many advantages to the freedom this will allow.
> ...


It's a wonderful thing if everybody did that in the USA and why not. I think it's a great idea I might just take you up on it and you can pay for me.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gee, I am heartbroken and doubt I will sleep tonight.....not.
> Later. Way later I hope.


I hope so too.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> You're not supposed to report that you are going on vacation...bad people out there.


Really? Who said it was for vacation? Please... go pick your nose instead of fights.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is a great thing that if someone wants to start a business he/she can have health insurance while their income is limited.
> It is a wonderful thing if someone is losing their ability to work fulltime and can cut back their hours so that they can have insurance without putting in the employer's required hours.
> It is fantastic that a mother or father who wants to return to work part time when they have small children so that they can guide them through their early years can opt into that practice.
> It is quite sad that some people can't see so many advantages to the freedom this will allow.
> ...


Employers can save money but individuals cannot? Hmmmm....


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I did? Nope. Wrong again.


Geez, you gave your age? 
Dang, I missed it.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really? Who said it was for vacation? Please... go pick your nose instead of fights.


Once again, that's just mean.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> BYE BYE. Can't say I'll miss you . That would be a lie.


Filled your quota for the night?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

gjz said:


> Once again, that's just mean.


Yeah but the young brat is also very witty and funny. Just enjoy her. She provides good thoughts and entertainment.

As does the Cook. Fine ladies, both of them.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nussa this is not a topic to discuss war so please take your conversation to another thread. It is rude to do what you are doing as people have to skip over you and then it braks up conversations. Please practice some consideration for others who are staying on topic. Thank you.


Oh so you've changed your mind. Now you have to see if it's gonna work. You owe several people here an apology. Your first post and your title are misleading. Why doesn't that surprise me.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Bon Voyage Young Brat. Bring your laptop so you can continue.


How's it hanging SQM, you little rascal you? :thumbup:


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Filled your quota for the night?


Not yet. What about you?


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

gjz said:


> I am not sure how I am misguided...I believe it was Jay Carney who said it was a great thing that people could choose if they wanted to work. I also believe it was Hilary Clinton who said that if you were an artist then you didn't have to work because you could now be covered by insurance. How is that good for our country? I may have my people wrong, but it was shown via video on NBC... Not Fox as many of you would think.


They were talking about people that wanted to retire and were old enough to retire, but continued to work to provide health ins for a spouse, not old enough to retire. They were talking about a family where the Mom wanted to stay home and take care of her children, but had to continue to work because her employer provided better healthcare than her husband's employer. If you are an artist, as my daughter is, and have to work a full time job in order to have health insurance, then it is very hard to be a full time artist and make a living at it. These were not people that would be laid off. If these people do choose to not work, then these jobs would open up for someone who is looking for work. These are not people who would quit work and draw unemployment. I know from reading your comments, that you will choose to not believe this and will continue to tell the lies.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> How's it hanging SQM, you little rascal you? :thumbup:


Having quite a good time watching the old girls sling it out. They are hilarious. Dare I think about writing a novel about these ladies and this site?

You have been doing quite well tonight. You landed a lot of punches.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Not yet. What about you?


I am tired and not full of alcohol, I am going to bed.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Having quite a good time watching the old girls sling it out. They are hilarious. Dare I think about writing a novel about these ladies and this site?
> 
> You have been doing quite well tonight. You landed a lot of punches.


It's not the battles that count. LOL


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am tired and not full of alcohol, I am going to bed.


Nitey nitey. At least you know when to get out of the kitchen.

Couldn't you come up with any better slam than the old alcohol one? Geeeeeeez I expected more from you. That old assume is hard at work here.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

elfiestouch said:


> I lost my Doctor after over 20 years. She no longer takes
> Medicare or any other Insurance connected with Affordable
> Health Care.
> Went to the Hospital and needed a couple of procedures to check for a problem. After over four hours of trying with no results, the Nurse recommended a different procedure, just to be informed by the Doctor that it is not approved under Obama Care.
> ...


So are you on private insurance or on Medicare? Your state opted out of federal aid so don't blame Obama it's you Republican politicians down there that caused you a world of hurt. You better learn who your enemy is. They had to prove a point and they "screwed" the very people they are supposed to be helping. Contact them and let them know you're upset.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Ok so I haven't read ALL the entries but I must say the Republicans are not sabotaging Obamacare they are opposed to it. The president himself is the one who is changing unilaterally his own healthcare law. Is that simple enough to understand


You are so misinformed I wouldn't know where to begin trying to explain it to you. I have seen enough of the foolishness in the GOP and you just go on believing what you want to dear. I got excellent care through ACA and I am not on welfare and I pay the insurance premium. If you don't like this thread I started do me a favor and act like a lady and go over to the RWN Obamacare thread and complain to your hearts content. Please show a little class and self respect for those of us who are sincere about being here. Thank you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So are you on private insurance or on Medicare? Your state opted out of federal aid so don't blame Obama it's you Republican politicians down there that caused you a world of hurt. You better learn who your enemy is. They had to prove a point and they "screwed" the very people they are supposed to be helping. Contact them and let them know you're upset.


I bet you didn't read this:

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/01/23/dayton-hugely-disappointed-in-mnsure-problems/

Or this one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/19/minnesota-obamacare_n_4302769.html


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

In case anyone is from Louisiana, the Koch Brothers had spent a lot of money to put ads on tv. They show people from Louisiana opening a letter that tells them because of Obamacare your insurance has been cancelled or because of Obamacare you premium is going up. Only problem is it is all lies. These people are not from Louisiana, they are paid actors. Why do the Koch Brothers want people to be without health insurance? I'll bet they have really good healthcare.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper in case you didn't notice this thread is about healthcare. All you are doing now is showing that RWN like yourself have nothing of value to offer in any discussion and you come and crap all over other people's threads just because you can. Well you go right ahead and prove me right cause you aren't smart enough to bring anything to the table and you will show everyone on KP how real Republican Christian women conduct themselves. Shame on you.


Someone asked what wars obama started. I answered.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Hey all the ACA lovers out there!!! Think it will cover pre-existing conditions? Yes you say? How about some fact checking??? How about if your doctor can see you about your pre-existing condition, prescribes a drug for you that will make your life a pleasurable one??? What if that drug is not on the formulary? Do you know what happens then? No?? Can't happen?? Take a look:

No, You Can't Keep Your Drugs Either Under Obamacare
Comment Now Follow Comments

The President famously promised that you could keep your health plan and doctor. For many people, both of those pledges are turning out to be false. And now, you might not be able to keep your medicine, either.

There are two reasons why. The first has to do with the higher out of pocket costs patients will face. The second issue may be even more significant.

Simply put, many drugs may not be covered at all, and the costs patients incur by buying them with cash wont count against out of pocket caps. This has repercussions for drug makers with big portfolios of specialty and primary care drugs (more on that later). But most of all, it has implications for patients.

Drugs on your health plans formulary will typically have fixed co-pays. These costs usually count toward your deductible and the out of pocket and lifetime limits on the total amount of money that your health plan can ask you to spend.

As the Wall Street Journal recently reported, these co-pays can already be substantial, pushing people quickly to their annual out-of-pocket limits  $6,350 for individuals and $12,700 for families (after which insurers pay the full tab).

Obamacare Won't Create A Shortage Of Doctors. That Doesn't Mean You'll Have Access To Them
Scott GottliebScott Gottlieb
Contributor
Do You Win Or Lose Under Obamacare? What You Must Know To See How You'll Fare
Scott GottliebScott Gottlieb
Contributor

The Irony Is That Obama's 'Like Your Plan' Fiasco Will Make It Difficult To Repeal Obamacare
Avik RoyAvik Roy
Forbes Staff

Doctor, Nurse Vacancies Soar Amid Obamacare Rollout
Bruce JapsenBruce Japsen
Contributor
People whose annual income is at or below 250% of the Federal Poverty Level will qualify for cost-sharing reductions. (That comes out to families of four earning less than about $60,000, or individuals earning less than $30,000). But people qualify for these cost-sharing subsidies only if they enroll in a higher cost, silver Obamacare plan.

Take, for example, the drug Copaxone for multiple sclerosis.

Someone on a bronze plan would be responsible for paying about 40% of the drugs costs out of pocket, on average. That comes out to about $1,980 a month.

If you buy the highest cost platinum plan, the out of pocket costs drop to $792 a month. But youre probably better off with the cheaper bronze plan anyway.

Since youre going to hit your out of pocket cap regardless of your plan, you might as well save money on the premium (which doesnt count against your deductible or out of pocket limits) and race to the $12,700 spending cap as quickly as your family can.

After all, the provider networks (and formularies) used by low cost bronze and high cost platinum plans are often the same. The only thing that varies between different metal plans is typically the co-pay structure. Why pay higher premiums just to lower your co-pays when youre going to hit the out of pocket caps anyway.

By purchasing a costlier, gold or platinum plan, you typically cant buy up to a higher benefit. What youre really doing is just prepaying the cost sharing.

But at least  in this model case  the drug Copaxone was partially covered under the Obamacare plans formulary. Consider an even bigger problem lurking inside the law.

The co-pay structure, and the out of pocket caps on consumer spending only apply to costs incurred on drugs that are included on a plans drug formulary. This is the list of medicines that the health plans have agreed to provide some coverage for.

If the drug isnt on this formulary list, then the patient could be responsible for its full cost (with little or no co-insurance to help offset that cost). Most of the Obamacare plans have closed formularies where non-formulary drugs arent covered. Moreover, the money consumers spend wont count against their deductibles or out of pocket limits ($12,700 for a family, $6,350 for an individual).

These are the ways that Obamacare cheapens the health coverage in order to pay for all of its expensive mandates. Obamacare is a throwback to the old HMO model of the 1990s, which promised a broad package of coverage for primary care benefits like vaccines, and routine doctor visits. But to pay for these benefits, the Obamacare plans skimp on other things  principally the number of doctors youll have access to, and also, the number of costlier branded drugs that make it onto formularies.

Many Americans rejected these restrictive HMO model plans in the 1990s, in favor of PPO-style plans that had higher cost sharing for routine health services, but offered broader access to doctors and have bigger drug formularies. What Obamacare says, in effect, is that Americans made the wrong choice when they rejected those HMO plans in favor of PPOs. The President thinks the more comprehensive, but restrictive HMOs were the better choice after all.

In response to the drug formulary issues, and the potential for important drugs to remain completely uncovered, staff at the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services is arguing that patients will have the option to appeal formulary decisions  to try and compel a health plan to cover a given drug.

But this appeals process can take months. And there is no sure chance of winning.

If a drug costs tens of thousands of dollars a year, how many patients will be able to foot that bill out of pocket until they win an appeal. Or take the chance that they could lose the appeal, and be stuck with the full cost of the drug?

The biggest problem in all of this is that consumers will have a very hard time figuring out where they stand. In many cases, the health plans being offered in the Obamacare exchanges dont make information about their drug formularies readily available. In some cases, it doesnt seem to be published anywhere.

The government was supposed to mandate that plans made this information easily accessible. But in many cases, that never happened.

Look it up here: http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottgottlieb/2013/12/09/no-you-cant-keep-your-drugs-either-under-obamacare/


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cheryl Jaeger said:


> I hear you on the free country we live in.(Although I'm starting to question this) My question was : " Does the pill or food form of Pot give the same relief that smoking pot does. " What can you add to this question?


Cheryl I would suggest you go on your computer and find out for yourself. The thread is not about marjuana it's about healthcare. You may want to start a thread on that subject it would be interesting.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

SQM said:


> I can understand her. Maybe there were no other real options , and if you are lucky enough to survive, you get great benefits. Being in the military may have been a godsend.
> 
> But that is why it is so unjust. The poor and the minorities do not have the same opportunities as those who do not need the military as a means of escape. How fortunate they are.


How insulting to those who have chosen the serve in the military. Shame on you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are so misinformed I wouldn't know where to begin trying to explain it to you. I have seen enough of the foolishness in the GOP and you just go on believing what you want to dear. I got excellent care through ACA and I am not on welfare and I pay the insurance premium. If you don't like this thread I started do me a favor and act like a lady and go over to the RWN Obamacare thread and complain to your hearts content. Please show a little class and self respect for those of us who are sincere about being here. Thank you.


Again who died here and left you boss.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> How insulting to those who have chosen the serve in the military. Shame on you.


Sure is.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

elfiestouch said:


> My Doctor is everything but selfish. She does a lot of work for the poor in the area, and takes care of her patients. She just refuses to work under "Obama Care" cause they put to many restrictions on the Doctor what procedures they can use on their patients.
> So don't talk about something you have no clue about.
> I refuse to use a Doctor that is recommended by Medicare.
> You get the Doctor that is approved by Dr.Emanuehl. Who needs that. They can keep those recommendations in Chicago.


You should be old enough to know that we don't get everything we want. If your doctor won't accept the coverage you have then bad on her. She could participate if she wanted to but she obviously doesn't care enough about her patients or she would not make you have to choose. She is to blame not Obama and if you are on Medicare what does ACA have to do with you unless you purchased your Medicare supplemental on the ACA exchange. You really are one confused lady. Correct me if I am wrong.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You should be old enough to know that we don't get everything we want. If your doctor won't accept the coverage you have then bad on her. She could participate if she wanted to but she obviously doesn't care enough about her patients or she would not make you have to choose. She is to blame not Obama and if you are on Medicare what does ACA have to do with you unless you purchased your Medicare supplemental on the ACA exchange. You really are one confused lady. Correct me if I am wrong.


So would you take a cut in pay if the government decreed it? Be honest now.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Not being the least judgemental, are you. Perhaps she could no long afford to keep her practice open and take care of her family obligates on the pathetic reimbursement she was receiving.


Thanks for getting back on the topic, thumper. You still didn't explain all the bad stuff that was happening with MNSure or did your friends get it all straightened out. I hope they did.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I bet you didn't read this:
> 
> http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/01/23/dayton-hugely-disappointed-in-mnsure-problems/
> 
> ...


OMG, the governor said it will be fixed. Can you imagine that? Just like the awful roll out of Part D when Bush was in office, only in that case the democrats worked with the republicans to make it work. But not republicans. If it works, then Obama looks good and they can't have that. If the people suffer and die because they can't get healthcare, well too bad, because Obama must fail. The right are such hypocrites.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So would you take a cut in pay if the government decreed it? Be honest now.


I don't think you can purchase a supplement on the exchange. I think Medicare, Part D and the supplements are not part of the ACA.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> OMG, the governor said it will be fixed. Can you imagine that? Just like the awful roll out of Part D when Bush was in office, only in that case the democrats worked with the republicans to make it work. But not republicans. If it works, then Obama looks good and they can't have that. If the people suffer and die because they can't get healthcare, well too bad, because Obama must fail. The right are such hypocrites.


The governor of MN is a democrat. LOL


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You should be old enough to know that we don't get everything we want. If your doctor won't accept the coverage you have then bad on her. She could participate if she wanted to but she obviously doesn't care enough about her patients or she would not make you have to choose. She is to blame not Obama and if you are on Medicare what does ACA have to do with you unless you purchased your Medicare supplemental on the ACA exchange. You really are one confused lady. Correct me if I am wrong.


You are so wrong, wrong wrong. The new ACA is making the reimbursements so low that if she did accept the coverage she could be in bankruptcy in a blink of an eye! You are so full of vile statements, and you have to blame everyone but the guy who is behind all of this mess...the current POTUS.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> I don't think you can purchase a supplement on the exchange. I think Medicare, Part D and the supplements are not part of the ACA.


I said nothing about a supplement. I was speaking to the MD taking a cut in pay.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> It's obvious that the only options you will accept are the ones in your narrow view of things. If I were a practitioner I wouldn't accept Medicare or Medicaid patients. Does that mean that I hate the elderly and the poor?


To me it does. My doctors are still seeing all the patients they used to and by BIL doctor hasn't turned anyone away. I guess some people are more ethical than others. I can assure you all these doctors are still earning very nice livings they just aren't greedy.


----------



## dianecamp2313 (Feb 28, 2013)

The story is the same in England. A couple I know unfortunately found the 40 year old man had a recurrance of cancer. He is a British citizen but opted to stay in the US for treatment even tho he has insurance there but not here. He could not get treatment there for 6 months due to the wait.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> To me it does. My doctors are still seeing all the patients they used to and by BIL doctor hasn't turned anyone away. I guess some people are more ethical than others. I can assure you all these doctors are still earning very nice livings they just aren't greedy.


Well ain't they just the model citizens right up there with you. How could we ask for more.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> The governor of MN is a democrat. LOL


Right and he said it will be fixed. What 's your point?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

dianecamp2313 said:


> The story is the same in England. A couple I know unfortunately found the 40 year old man had a recurrance of cancer. He is a British citizen but opted to stay in the US for treatment even tho he has insurance there but not here. He could not get treatment there for 6 months due to the wait.


Their National Health Care has undergone several changes over the years. Because they have found out, what we will find out one day, they can't afford it.


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> An edict at his whim? What about a congress that is collecting our hard earned money for doing absolutely nothing? A congress that refuses to do it's job? I am glad to have him on my side. He is fighting for the poor and the
> middle class.


where is the Senate? I hope that you realize there are 2 parts to congress and Harry Reid will not allow bills to be brought up Even if he feels that it is in the best interest for the country, he is not allowed under our form of govn't to just go ahead Check out blogs by J Turley. He believes in the policies of Obama but is thunderstruck on the means Obama is using and calls it "dangerous"


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Having quite a good time watching the old girls sling it out. They are hilarious. Dare I think about writing a novel about these ladies and this site?
> 
> You have been doing quite well tonight. You landed a lot of punches.


Only you of low intellect would exclaim that landing a lot of punches was doing good. All you libs want to do is bully people and sling mud. Just like all the other threads you invade.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> Right and he said it will be fixed. What 's your point?


My point was and still is that he went against Obama and many MN's aren't happy with him or the system of healthcare from the federal government. Not sure how you could have missed that. Maybe JC knows.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Only you of low intellect would exclaim that landing a lot of punches was doing good. All you libs want to do is bully people and sling mud. Just like all the other threads you invade.


I have to laugh that when they aren't "winning" they revert to calling names and insinuations. But what did we expect from libs. It's always about them only, as individuals. You do know the definition of a lib.

They'll give you the shirt off of SOMEONE else's back........


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> To me it does. My doctors are still seeing all the patients they used to and by BIL doctor hasn't turned anyone away. I guess some people are more ethical than others. I can assure you all these doctors are still earning very nice livings they just aren't greedy.


Your assurance do nothing to assure me in any way shape or form.

You are sure up on your high horse today!! Please fall on the way down.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> where is the Senate? I hope that you realize there are 2 parts to congress and Harry Reid will not allow bills to be brought up Even if he feels that it is in the best interest for the country, he is not allowed under our form of govn't to just go ahead Check out blogs by J Turley. He believes in the policies of Obama but is thunderstruck on the means Obama is using and calls it "dangerous"


What bills has Harry Reid failed to bring to the floor. As two examples Boehner won't bring immigration or raising the minimum wage to the floor. The people deserve it to at least be discussed. The problem the republicans have though is if something gets voted on and passed then it looks good for Obama and so they won't bring it to the floor. Beohner is telling us to he-- with you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Your assurance do nothing to assure me in any way shape or form.
> 
> You are sure up on your high horse today!! Please fall on the way down.


With her for a SIL the BIL is probably scared to tell her he's turned away patient's.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> I love it when elderly women get nasty. They are even better than "The Women".


I love it when the libs think they are getting their way. HAA! Telling others to go away to another thread............Oh right they said on the "War on Women" thread that they can be on there if they want. Well guess what? We can be on here if we want. Just because YOU want a nice mutual back slapping thread where all your cronies dome to crow doesn't mean it will happen. 
Now that I love!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cbyrd1 said:


> To Cheeky Blighter.... talking of "playing dirty", I'd like to remind you that President Obama, in his furious effort to get the ACA passed by Congress, told the American people 32 times on TV that "if you like your policy you can keep your policy" and "if you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr." knowing full well that what he was saying was a blatant lie! As a result 5-6 million policies were cancelled, including mine, and 5-6 million people were told they could no longer keep the same Primary Care Physician (including me). He did this in order to get his political agenda passed at the expense of the people. Seems to me that the Obama supporters suffer from the onset of short term memory loss.


What you and the Republicans can't deal with is that ACA is working and it is wonderful! You have bought into your party line which is obvious and that is fine if you like others to evaluate and make decisions for you. If your team was doing their job they would have proposed another healthcare option but as they said their only plan was to ruin the President. They sat on their butts and must have slept right through the time when Obama slipped that darn healthcare by right under their noses. Were they drugged or intoxicated. Too bad they didn't do their job. Obama did his and I am thrilled. You better watch who you vote for in 2014 and 2016. If they aren't working for you, vote in people with some sense and more importantly people who care about you, their constituent. I got what I wanted because I voted for the people who do the best for me. That's what they are there for. You should do the same. If you don't like this thread may I recommend Obamacare. You can complain about what a bad deal you got over there and get a lot of sympathy. I save mine for people who are truly hurting or did really get a bad deal with healthcare and if I can help them I will. I don't care what their politics are.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are very misguided if you believe that. Let's see the relaible source of your information. If you can't provide it may I suggest you join the RWN on the Obamacare thread. You will be right at home.


Hey free country here! You go find a different thread! One that we will invade then too!!!!!!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What you and the Republicans can't deal with is that ACA is working and it is wonderful! You have bought into your party line which is obvious and that is fine if you like others to evaluate and make decisions for you. If your team was doing their job they would have proposed another healthcare option but as they said their only plan was to ruin the President. They sat on their butts and must have slept right through the time when Obama slipped that darn healthcare by right under their noses. Were they drugged or intoxicated. Too bad they didn't do their job. Obama did his and I am thrilled. You better watch who you vote for in 2014 and 2016. If they aren't working for you, vote in people with some sense and more importantly people who care about you, their constituent. I got what I wanted because I voted for the people who do the best for me. That's what they are there for. You should do the same. If you don't like this thread may I recommend Obamacare. You can complain about what a bad deal you got over there and get a lot of sympathy. I save mine for people who are truly hurting or did really get a bad deal with healthcare and if I can help them I will. I don't care what their politics are.


We'll settle for complaining right here. Thank you. Yeah that's typical of a lib. You got what you wanted. Be careful what you ask for.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where are your stats? All you've given us is anecdotal information? Are we to believe you. How long have you been using Obamacare? What 2 or three times?


What stats would you like to see? I go to the doctor and I pay for my office visit. My insurance covers 90/10 if there is any due. I go to the pharmacy and pay my copay. It's very simple. Coverage just started Jan 1. How many times do you think people go to the doctor? I can go for months without seeing mine.


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

NJG said:


> What bills has Harry Reid failed to bring to the floor. As two examples Boehner won't bring immigration or raising the minimum wage to the floor. The people deserve it to at least be discussed. The problem the republicans have though is if something gets voted on and passed then it looks good for Obama and so they won't bring it to the floor. Beohner is telling us to he-- with you.


you do have some exploring to do. i hope that you will do so. Beohner is no prize! Republicans eat their own The Dems seem to turn a blind eye and defend their own right to the end. There are countless number of bills that Harry Reid is sitting on. Please notice his downfalls, just as I do about Boehner


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I said nothing about a supplement. I was speaking to the MD taking a cut in pay.


Sorry if that was confusing. I was commenting to Cheeky because she had made a comment about the ACA and a supplement.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are on the wrong winding path. I have Medicare and I am well under 60. Obamacare is not welfare. It is not free. If you can get it for under 300.00 a year then I think you have been smoking "it".


Hey Bratty-Didn't you say (or one of your ilk) that Obamacare isn't a thing??? And it isn't by the way. How can you pay for Obamacare if it isn't a thing you can buy???? You know very well she meant she could buy insurance and be subsidized. And if you have Medicare you are disabled and are drawing SSD. 
I think it is you that have been smoking "it".


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I'm employed and have great insurance. Is that enough for you?


Then why are you out here complaining. Your whining is really obnoxious and I would love to see you make a graceful exit. Go start your own thread where you can regurgitate to your hearts content about how bad Obamacare is. This isn't the time or the place. You really are being rude and have added nothing to the discussion.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Hey Bratty-Didn't you say (or one of your ilk) that Obamacare isn't a thing??? And it isn't by the way. How can you pay for Obamacare if it isn't a thing you can buy???? You know very well she meant she could buy insurance and be subsidized. And if you have Medicare you are disabled and are drawing SSD.
> I think it is you that have been smoking "it".


You are barking at the wrong person. There is a full moon tonight. Go howl at that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Then why are you out here complaining. Your whining is really obnoxious and I would love to see you make a graceful exit. Go start your own thread where you can regurgitate to your hearts content about how bad Obamacare is. This isn't the time or the place. You really are being rude and have added nothing to the discussion.


Cheeks, go read some of her/his posts. She is rude and obnoxious in almost everyone of them. She just wants to argue and fight.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What you and the Republicans can't deal with is that ACA is working and it is wonderful! You have bought into your party line which is obvious and that is fine if you like others to evaluate and make decisions for you. If your team was doing their job they would have proposed another healthcare option but as they said their only plan was to ruin the President. They sat on their butts and must have slept right through the time when Obama slipped that darn healthcare by right under their noses. Were they drugged or intoxicated. Too bad they didn't do their job. Obama did his and I am thrilled. You better watch who you vote for in 2014 and 2016. If they aren't working for you, vote in people with some sense and more importantly people who care about you, their constituent. I got what I wanted because I voted for the people who do the best for me. That's what they are there for. You should do the same. If you don't like this thread may I recommend Obamacare. You can complain about what a bad deal you got over there and get a lot of sympathy. I save mine for people who are truly hurting or did really get a bad deal with healthcare and if I can help them I will. I don't care what their politics are.


ACA may work for you until you need a drug and it isn't on the formulary. Then you may be stuck paying a drug bill that can be tens of thousands of dollars a moth. AND it doesn't apply to your co-pay or catastrophic cap. Oh sure you can appeal but by then you may be dead. Then the insurance company can say to you "What difference at this time does it matter?" 
Do you recognize those words??????


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeks, go read some of her/his posts. She is rude and obnoxious in almost everyone of them. She just wants to argue and fight.


Yea Cheeks go read some of Patty's and your posts that are rude and obnoxious and don't provide anything to the thread. YOU gals are pros at that.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> ACA may work for you until you need a drug and it isn't on the formulary. Then you may be stuck paying a drug bill that can be tens of thousands of dollars a moth. AND it doesn't apply to your co-pay or catastrophic cap. Oh sure you can appeal but by then you may be dead. Then the insurance company can say to you "What difference at this time does it matter?"
> Do you recognize those words??????


yes, they come from people who haven't read the bill.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are barking at the wrong person. There is a full moon tonight. Go howl at that.


Can't even admit where you are so so wrong!!!!! (I said or one of your ilk). 
And yes there is a full moon-maybe you need to howl at it since you brought it up.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> yes, they come from people who haven't read the bill.


WHAT?????? Your reply made no sense.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Yea Cheeks go read some of Patty's and your posts that are rude and obnoxious and don't provide anything to the thread. YOU gals are pros at that.


Go scratch .Better yet go smoke "it" and mellow out. You just can't help yourself from trolling threads that are meant to be positive. Don't see you hanging out lately with your RWN friends. Did they give you the boot? I can certainly see why.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> WHAT?????? Your reply made no sense.


They wouldn't to you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What stats would you like to see? I go to the doctor and I pay for my office visit. My insurance covers 90/10 if there is any due. I go to the pharmacy and pay my copay. It's very simple. Coverage just started Jan 1. How many times do you think people go to the doctor? I can go for months without seeing mine.


So you would ration care. Everyone has to be just like you eh?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

caseykey said:


> Glad this works for you. Here in SW Florida, I work in a health care clinic and we do not accept this form of healthcare. The doctors do not want it, patients who have enrolled were suppose to have a preferred provider list and insurance card by 2/1. Middle of the month and no list or card. The doctors wonder if they will ever get paid. I feel so sorry for those who really thought this would work.


That's not what they did in MN. If people had not received their insurance cards on time and had to go to the doctor then all they had to do was have the doctor's office call the insurance company to verify there was coverage in place and they were seen. You contradict yourself by what you said, First you said the doctors won't see patients with this coverage (this form of healthcare) and then you say patients weren't on the list. So which is it? If the doctors are expecting to get paid they must have seen pateints with this health coverge, right? If they haven't been paid yet that is because the insurance company has not paid the claim. ACA does not pay the claims the insurance companies do. You do understand that don't you?


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Then why are you out here complaining. Your whining is really obnoxious and I would love to see you make a graceful exit. Go start your own thread where you can regurgitate to your hearts content about how bad Obamacare is. This isn't the time or the place. You really are being rude and have added nothing to the discussion.


You go make your own thread and quit telling people to leave this one................Or maybe you can't stand that many things posted here are true and all you want around you are your back slapping cronies.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> What stats would you like to see? I go to the doctor and I pay for my office visit. My insurance covers 90/10 if there is any due. I go to the pharmacy and pay my copay. It's very simple. Coverage just started Jan 1. How many times do you think people go to the doctor? I can go for months without seeing mine.


Wow! 90/10 is awesome. Did you say it was with Preferred One?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You go make your own thread and quit telling people to leave this one................Or maybe you can't stand that many things posted here are true and all you want around you are your back slapping cronies.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
I am done arguing with you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You go make your own thread and quit telling people to leave this one................Or maybe you can't stand that many things posted here are true and all you want around you are your back slapping cronies.


She did make her own thread. THIS ONE!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's not what they did in MN. If people had not received their insurance cards on time and had to go to the doctor then all they had to do was have the doctor's office call the insurance company to verify there was coverage in place and they were seen. You contradict yourself by what you said, First you said the doctors won't see patients with this coverage (this form of healthcare) and then you say patients weren't on the list. So which is it? If the doctors are expecting to get paid they must have seen pateints with this health coverge, right? If they haven't been paid yet that is because the insurance company has not paid the claim. ACA does not pay the claims the insurance companies do. You do understand that don't you?


I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of people do not understand that it's the insurance companies that are dealing with the claims. Not the government. I think the doctors not taking patients is a hyped up story. If the ACa offers Blue Cross Blue Shield, which is a nation wide Insurance, why would doctors now not accept it? Same with any already existing ins co.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow! 90/10 is awesome. Did you say it was with Preferred One?


Flight canceled?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> I am done arguing with you.


Thank God. We are tired of you. Already.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> She did make her own thread. THIS ONE!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


And we will respond to it the way we want to not the way she thinks we should.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go scratch .Better yet go smoke "it" and mellow out. You just can't help yourself from trolling threads that are meant to be positive. Don't see you hanging out lately with your RWN friends. Did they give you the boot? I can certainly see why.


You go scratch----------Yea meant to be positive!!!???? You gotta be kidding. This was another of your tactics to stir the pot, and you know it. You wouldn't see me hang out anywhere because I don't need the self affirming friends that libs certainly seem to need at all times.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You go scratch----------Yea meant to be positive!!!???? You gotta be kidding. This was another of your tactics to stir the pot, and you know it. You wouldn't see me hang out anywhere because I don't need the self affirming friends that libs certainly seem to need at all times.


Oh don't fret the kitchen is just to hot for them and they don't have the capacity to get out. I really do feel sorry for them.Don't you?  :?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You go scratch----------Yea meant to be positive!!!???? You gotta be kidding. This was another of your tactics to stir the pot, and you know it. You wouldn't see me hang out anywhere because I don't need the self affirming friends that libs certainly seem to need at all times.


Good night Sometimesaknitter. How are the gloves coming?


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She did make her own thread. THIS ONE!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Ha Ha!! Really???? This thread that has turned into an I hate Obamacare thread??? Oh so so sorry. 
Not really sorry, you took a thread and completely over took it with your liberal clap trap. We can take over this one if we want!

Go ahead and tell us again to get off this thread.....Please!!! It delights me.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You go scratch----------Yea meant to be positive!!!???? You gotta be kidding. This was another of your tactics to stir the pot, and you know it. You wouldn't see me hang out anywhere because I don't need the self affirming friends that libs certainly seem to need at all times.


Um I didn't start this thread. You were barking at Cheeky to start her own thread and I replied that she did start one. This thread. So what's your point? She started the thread because a lot of people here have been misinformed about the ACA and she has studied it and is part of it and can help explain it to people. What is your reason for being here? I would say to stir the pot.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And we will respond to it the way we want to not the way she thinks we should.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Ha Ha!! Really???? This thread that has turned into an I hate Obamacare thread??? Oh so so sorry.
> Not really sorry, you took a thread and completely over took it with your liberal clap trap. We can take over this one if we want!
> 
> Go ahead and tell us again to get off this thread.....Please!!! It delights me.


You are delirious and have no idea who or why you are fighting with them. Now, go lay by your dish and let the rest of have the discussion we intended to have.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are delirious and have no idea who or why you are fighting with them. Now, go lay by your dish and let the rest of have the discussion we intended to have.


So you've taken on your alter ego I see.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> I am done arguing with you.


Good but I am not done arguing with you!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And we will respond to it the way we want to not the way she thinks we should.


Of course you will. Why not stump for KnitPicks while you are at it.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You are delirious and have no idea who or why you are fighting with them. Now, go lay by your dish and let the rest of have the discussion we intended to have.


I don't need to leave and let you have the kind of discussion you intended to have. Just like you wouldn't leave the so called "War on women" thread. I am sure you have heard about turn about is fair play?????


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Good but I am not done arguing with you!!


Then you will be shouting at the wind, because I will not read your posts or respond anymore to you. Just like all of the women in WOW and the ladies on the right too!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I don't need to leave and let you have the kind of discussion you intended to have. Just like you wouldn't leave the so called "War on women" thread. I am sure you have heard about turn about is fair play?????


Oh so this is some sort of revenge? It ain't working, dog.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Of course you will. Why not stump for KnitPicks while you are at it.


There you go again, thinking you have the right to tell others what to do or how to act. You are what is wrong with American society today. You have the nerve to talk about judging others in a negative light and here you are doing the thing you don't want others to do!!!!! TSK TSK TSK


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Of course you will. Why not stump for KnitPicks while you are at it.


Ok I love KnitPicks. They have a great 2 At A Time Toe Up Generic sock pattern with pictures and all. And guess what it's frRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEE. Really free you don't have to sign up or anything. Keep that under your hat because I don't want the government to hear about it. They'll figure out a way to get money from that pattern. I know they will.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh so this is some sort of revenge? It ain't working, dog.


That was uncalled for.....


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh so this is some sort of revenge? It ain't working, dog.


If it ain't working why all the responses??? HMMMMM????
And it is about stating our opinions here as you did on the other thread, or is that too much for your little brain to comprehend?
Can't take differing opinions????


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then you will be shouting at the wind, because I will not read your posts or respond anymore to you. Just like all of the women in WOW and the ladies on the right too!


Is that a promise. What do I have to do to get that treatment. Just tell my and I'll do it in a New York Minute. Again Flight Canceled. Or do they fly to Vegas from MN?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Good night Sometimesaknitter. How are the gloves coming?


If you are talking about her boxing gloves, CB they look pretty good. all she wants to do is fight. Can you show her the way home tonight?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> And that is PURELY and 100% because the GOP REFUSED to allow a public option which would've resolved _at least_ 90% of those people who fall in between like that.
> 
> So, next time, tell your GOP representatives, that they shouldn't do these things half-baked because it hurts people like your friends.
> 
> ...


Just one comment, vocallisa. I know two specialists who make very good money who purchased their insurance through MNSure as they are independent contractors with the clinics they serve and they are also paying less for platinum level insurance. I have heard MN has one of the best exchanges and I guess it must be true. :thumbup: 
We still need to move on to single payer for everyone.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Is that a promise. What do I have to do to get that treatment. Just tell my and I'll do it in a New York Minute. Again Flight Canceled. Or do they fly to Vegas from MN?


My flight plans are none of your business.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> My point was and still is that he went against Obama and many MN's aren't happy with him or the system of healthcare from the federal government. Not sure how you could have missed that. Maybe JC knows.


I didn't miss anything. Other states also decided not to participate in the extension. Aren't those on the right always talking about states rights. Well, that is what Minnesota is doing, making the decision as to what they think is best for Minnesota. When you say many people aren't happy about, it probably is just those who had plans cancelled and will have to purchase new plans. The plans were up for cancellation because they do not meet the minimum coverage requirements of the federal health care law, such as pre-existing conditions. If Obama had done nothing, he would have been wrong and since he did something, he is still wrong. The right is just so hypocritical.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Why are you listening to the OP then. She has no facts just her take on the subject. The snow is working for me.


Snow? Now I know why you are so "unusual and perverse" you are snorting snow aka cocaine. Trying to catch the dragon. I'm on to you now dear. :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Just one comment, vocallisa. I know two specialists who make very good money who purchased their insurance through MNSure as they are independent contractors with the clinics they serve and they are also paying less for platinum level insurance. I have heard MN has one of the best exchanges and I guess it must be true. :thumbup:
> We still need to move on to single payer for everyone.


Now that I would love to see!


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Then you will be shouting at the wind, because I will not read your posts or respond anymore to you. Just like all of the women in WOW and the ladies on the right too!


RIGHHHTT..........Sure like when you posted to me in the very next post???? Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha
You couldn't keep your promise for one minute!!!!!!
I posted a lengthy post about all the drugs that may not be covered and you ignored it as usual. You say you want facts, I give them to you and you ignore it. OH OH I see you only want facts that support you in your dream world where Obama is King (even tho he carries on about income equality and has so many millions more now, why doesn't he give some of his millions to you, his faithful followers? HUH?) Obama is a Marxist power hungry suit. He will make more of a power grab before he is done and you my friends will be out in the cold knocking on our doors begging t be let in. And I say too too bad.....


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

NJG said:


> I didn't miss anything. Other states also decided not to participate in the extension. Aren't those on the right always talking about states rights. Well, that is what Minnesota is doing, making the decision as to what they think is best for Minnesota. When you say many people aren't happy about, it probably is just those who had plans cancelled and will have to purchase new plans. The plans were up for cancellation because they do not meet the minimum coverage requirements of the federal health care law, such as pre-existing conditions. If Obama had done nothing, he would have been wrong and since he did something, he is still wrong. The right is just so hypocritical.


Too bad you didn't read the comments at the end of the article. Even worst is the fact that you didn't read it at all.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Snow? Now I know why you are so "unusual and perverse" you are snorting snow aka cocaine. Trying to catch the dragon. I'm on to you now dear. :thumbup:


That makes perfect sense, Cheeky. BTW love your cat''s new glasses!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Snow? Now I know why you are so "unusual and perverse" you are snorting snow aka cocaine. Trying to catch the dragon. I'm on to you now dear. :thumbup:


With your super intelligence I'm so sorry you couldn't figure that out sooner. The major flaw in your deduction is the fact that you seem to think ( is that a new experience for you BTW) that I give one sweet s**t what you think? At least you tried harder than your sleeping friend.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> I have a question why is it called the affordable care act when it most definatley is not?


It is for me and for many other posters on this thread. What exactly isn't working for you?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> That makes perfect sense, Cheeky. BTW love your cat''s new glasses!


Do you know talking to yourself is listed in OBAMACARE as a treatable illness?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> It is for me and for many other posters on this thread. What exactly isn't working for you?


Actually, if it were working for the majority of posters in this thread you could shut up by now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I have noticed that those who complain the most (not referring to this thread) already have insurance. If they have it, why change it? Are people under the impression that everyone has to change their health coverage?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Great question. My thought is it is affordable for those who don't work for it and costly for those who work for it
> As a military vet who bled for it. I wonder who prospers for that


You really are ignorant pf the facts. I get my insurance through MNSure and I pay my premiums not anyone else. People who have a very nice income also participate in MNSure and they pay their own way. If people need help I have no problem helping them and if you are unhappy you better rethink the decisions you are making and take some responsibility for the things going wrong and stop blaming others. Sounds like sour grapes and nothing more.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have noticed that those who complain the most (not referring to this thread) already have insurance. If they have it, why change it? Are people under the impression that everyone has to change their health coverage?


Not yet and that's a major problem.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Actually, if it were working for the majority of posters in this thread you could shut up by now.


No need to be so rude to her. why are you out to sink this thread, because it doesn't go along with what you think? There are many who think differently than you and should be able to post without your snide remarks to them.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

NJG said:


> I didn't miss anything. Other states also decided not to participate in the extension. Aren't those on the right always talking about states rights. Well, that is what Minnesota is doing, making the decision as to what they think is best for Minnesota. When you say many people aren't happy about, it probably is just those who had plans cancelled and will have to purchase new plans. The plans were up for cancellation because they do not meet the minimum coverage requirements of the federal health care law, such as pre-existing conditions. If Obama had done nothing, he would have been wrong and since he did something, he is still wrong. The right is just so hypocritical.


He is wrong because we are RIGHT. He is wrong because no man needs coverage for a hysterectomy, he is wrong because no woman needs prostate surgery or a vasectomy. He is wrong on so many levels it is a very very long list. 
If anything the left is hypocritical for wanting the right to kill a life in utero, but not a convicted killer. That to me is the ultimate hipocrisy.

And does the ACA laws make the insurance companies cover all drugs needed for life sustaining healthcare???? NOOOOO


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> That is not hate nor racist it is ideology
> Please keep race out of it


Yes it is your ideology and you have let your's overtake your common sense. So sad for you.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You really are ignorant pf the facts. I get my insurance through MNSure and I pay my premiums not anyone else. People who have a very nice income also participate in MNSure and they pay their own way. If people need help I have no problem helping them and if you are unhappy you better rethink the decisions you are making and take some responsibility for the things going wrong and stop blaming others. Sounds like sour grapes and nothing more.


And you don't think you are getting any help? You are wrong. If you are in the exchange you are getting help with your premiums. I didn't say subsidy so don't even go there.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> My flight plans are none of your business.


Who says??
BTW no one is fooled thinking that is a picture of you, brat.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

MN is not alone in this regard.



Karen L said:


> I would not brag so loud about MN being so good. Friends of mine lost the coverage they had and now have to pay 50% of their prescriptions and doctor visits. They are low income and neither is able to work to increase their income. Try telling them that ObamaCare has improved their lives!


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it is your ideology and you have let your's overtake your common sense. So sad for you.


The only ones I feel sorry for are the people who have jumped on the race bandwagon. That is the only excuse they cling to to explain the current POTUS's unpopularity. Too bad it isn't true. If it is give me the statistics.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And you don't think you are getting any help? You are wrong. If you are in the exchange you are getting help with your premiums. I didn't say subsidy so don't even go there.


do you know what her copays are? Might not be as much help as you may think.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Is there a study group that teaches one to spew this rhetoric ?


Is there a study group that teaches one to spew your rhetoric? Right back at you? That was too simple. You are not on your A game are you? :-D


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where are your facts?


Concerning what?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

As very few people have signed on to it.



Janet Cooke said:


> ACA has to do with a relatively small percentage of the population.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You really are ignorant pf the facts. I get my insurance through MNSure and I pay my premiums not anyone else. People who have a very nice income also participate in MNSure and they pay their own way. If people need help I have no problem helping them and if you are unhappy you better rethink the decisions you are making and take some responsibility for the things going wrong and stop blaming others. Sounds like sour grapes and nothing more.


OMG!!!!! Did you read it here???? "if you are unhappy you better rethink the decisions you are making and take some responsibility for the things going wrong and stop blaming others."
A lib saying that to a conservative????? Yea how about the unhappy to be pregnant and I want to kill my baby people??? And the people who say ok I had my baby now you need to pay for it! AND how about the people who want others to pay for their health care????


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> do you know what her copays are? Might not be as much help as you may think.


If she's in an exchange that is why they were set up. It's like hight risk car insurance. There is a pool of people. The number of people in that pool help determine rates. That's why all the fuss about young people not signing up. They will help defray costs for the others.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> OMG!!!!! Did you read it here???? "if you are unhappy you better rethink the decisions you are making and take some responsibility for the things going wrong and stop blaming others."
> A lib saying that to a conservative????? Yea how about the unhappy to be pregnant and I want to kill my baby people??? And the people who say ok I had my baby now you need to pay for it! AND how about the people who want others to pay for their health care????


She'll never get to that place.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Don't you dare come after me for taking VA benefits. You insult a great percentage of Americans who give you the right to spew your rhetorical nonesence


My family fought for me and you and my right to say whatever I want to say so get off your high horse.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Concerning what?


Most everything you blather on about and any other you'd like to post. But remember it can only be about Obamacare.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> My family fought for me and you and my right to say whatever I want to say so get off your high horse.


Some of us are sorry they did.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Everyone who has any kind of health insurance pays for everyone else. You're in a pool. You pay your premiums every month and maybe you never have a doctor's visit in 5 years. There are very healthy people in the pool and there are people who have heart disease or cancer or diabetes. Those with illnesses use the insurance more than the healthy people. Insurance is just that---insurance coverage for if and when you get sick.
Every health insurance company also has a formulary for prescription drugs. Whether you've purchased your health insurance under the ACA or have gotten it from your employer, it doesn't matter. Insurance companies decide which medications they'll pay for---or not. It has nothing to do with the ACA. Insurance companies have always decided which drugs and which treatments will be covered. 
I think some people are blaming the ACA for things insurance companies have always done.
And if you don't like the ACA, thank Mitt Romney, the Heritage Foundation, and the repubs. We got a law that our Comgress could pass. There is a better system---it's called single-payer.
Furthermore, we're Americans. If the ACA is that broken, let''s try to fix it. That's what Americans do. Unfortunately, we have a bunch of do-nothing people in the House who don't want to work for their money.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> If she's in an exchange that is why they were set up. It's like hight risk car insurance. There is a pool of people. The number of people in that pool help determine rates. That's why all the fuss about young people not signing up. They will help defray costs for the others.


And young people aren't signing up because they can be covered under parents policy till 26? And if they did sign up they would find their cost of health insurance is very high. They have to pay for all the seniors.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Some of us are sorry they did.


Really? I didn't know that you didn't care who fought or still fights for us as long as it isn't you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And young people aren't signing up because they can be covered under parents policy till 26? And if they did sign up they would find their cost of health insurance is very high. They have to pay for all the seniors.


Health insurance companies have been increasing the cost of our premiums for years and years and years. That has nothing to do with the ACA.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> He is wrong because we are RIGHT. He is wrong because no man needs coverage for a hysterectomy, he is wrong because no woman needs prostate surgery or a vasectomy. He is wrong on so many levels it is a very very long list.
> If anything the left is hypocritical for wanting the right to kill a life in utero, but not a convicted killer. That to me is the ultimate hipocrisy.
> 
> And does the ACA laws make the insurance companies cover all drugs needed for life sustaining healthcare???? NOOOOO


No insurance company would ever cover all drugs, but it would be nice, wouldn't it?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> And young people aren't signing up because they can be covered under parents policy till 26? And if they did sign up they would find their cost of health insurance is very high. They have to pay for all the seniors.


I believe they will pay the fines right up to the end, just for spite. and still get free care. I'm thinking of paying my doc a flat fee to see him whenever and buy a catastrophic plan. Some docs here have done that. Figured out how much they want to make for the year and then limited their patients to the number that will achieve their goals. No insurance hassles, less ancillary help, and more patient care. $1500 a year x 200 patients is $300,000 a year. Not bad. I'm sure my doc has more patient's than that right now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Health insurance companies have been increasing the cost of our premiums for years and years and years. That has nothing to do with the ACA.


Not to mention raising the yearly deductibles.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Health insurance companies have been increasing the cost of our premiums for years and years and years. That has nothing to do with the ACA.


And don't think they won't continue. They will they'll have to.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Not to mention raising the yearly deductibles.


The deductibles are high for ACA. What are you talking about.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No cards have been issued, no payment schedules or procedures for submitting claims have been implemented. There are no answers to the providers for any of these concerns. Even o has little confidence in ocare as he continues to issue extensions.

I seriously doubt the knowledge of anyone on any of these plans who says they have their surgery approved. And how might I ask were they "able to schedule their surgeries on KP?"



Janet Cooke said:


> That's at least 2 people who have been able to schedule surgeries just on KP.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And don't think they won't continue. They will they'll have to.


I don't know what your second sentence means, but maybe someone who knows the law better than I can address the issue. Is there anything in the law that puts caps on how much premiums can rise? might have to look that up.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

What you say is true and can be verified.



nuclearfinz said:


> Does Obamacare affect seniors at all?
> 
> On some fronts, yes, it does. Preventive benefits under Medicare  like cancer screenings and wellness visits  are being expanded under of the Affordable Care Act. Higher-income seniors are paying more for prescription drug coverage, though the majority of Medicare beneficiaries are paying less.
> 
> The law does cut some Medicare funding, about $700 billion over ten years. Those cuts are to payments from Medicare to healthcare providers, which experts say may impact the system down the road.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Child dental care would not be a part of health insurance. You reach to try to invent a point.


damemary I can only speak for MNSure on this one but dental is offered but only one provider, Delta Dental so I got that too. I guess some people are just very disappointed that ACA is working. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. It's very sad. They complain because of all the freeloaders filling up the ER's then they complain when ACA is providing basic preventative care to people so they will stay healthier and not have to resort to extremely expensive medical care because they couldn't be seen by a doctor sooner. In the long run ACA will save money but to prove a point and show how much they hate the President they will not participate even if it costs them more and they get less. That certainly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Really? I didn't know that you didn't care who fought or still fights for us as long as it isn't you?


At 62 I haven't been worried about fighting for a long time now.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> The deductibles are high for ACA. What are you talking about.


Insurance companies as I stated in my response to al.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary I can only speak for MNSure on this one but dental is offered but only one provider, Delta Dental so I got that too. I guess some people are just very disappointed that ACA is working. I just don't understand that kind of thinking. It's very sad. They complain because of all the freeloaders filling up the ER's then they complain when ACA is providing basic preventative care to people so they will stay healthier and not have to resort to extremely expensive medical care because they couldn't be seen by a doctor sooner. In the long run ACA will save money but to prove a point and show how much they hate the President they will not participate even if it costs them more and they get less. That certainly is cutting off your nose to spite your face.


Interesting that MA has a rise in ER visits. How does that work?

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2014/01/03/expanded-insurance-coverage-led-increased-use-emergency-room-study-finds/t8DJgmg5SMc6hFPBPPZPwL/story.html


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Come to think of it the ACA is like a pyramid scheme. The seniors and poor at the top, the middle are the middle class, and at the bottom are the rich and the young. If the young don't sign up under the ACA the pyramid will topple, or the insurance companies will need a bail out. That is the middle class paying again! 
Did you know that the income discrepancy is larger now than when Odummer became the POTUS. But oh how he loves to bring up the inequity. That is how he can snow the poor to vote for him.
Notice how he blames the Repubicans for everything he can. Maybe he has made some bad choices and needs to stop blaming other?? HMMM?
He is the one to bring up race, he is the one to say and do things outside the constitution.
He is the one that is dividing the nation with hate!! HE wants the US divided. He wants us divided so he can take over like HITLER. He is evil and only wants the worst for the US.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Cheeky , you are the one I fought for. Live long and prosper!


No my Dad, my uncles, my husband and my son did so I could live long and prosper. I also thank you for your service as I do all who have served.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I would like to know why people who hate the ACA (even if they don't participate) don't want to see it fixed or improved. Why is there all this griping and no effort to change anything? Where is the republican plan to put in place if they ever succeed in repealing it?
Oh, wait. I forgot. The ACA IS the republican plan, brought to us by Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know why people who hate the ACA (even if they don't participate) don't want to see it fixed or improved. Why is there all this griping and no effort to change anything? Where is the republican plan to put in place if they ever succeed in repealing it?
> Oh, wait. I forgot. The ACA IS the republican plan, brought to us by Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation.


All I have heard is griping ,al. No plan to fix it at all.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

What Kammyv4 said has nothing to do with the so-called greed of the insurance companies but as she so aptly stated all the non-essentials and/or items which only have relevance to specific populations. Example: obstetrical medicine for men, Pediatric services for those individuals without children, on and on.



SQM said:


> Your statement is an indictment of the greed of the insurance companies, not ACA.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I would like to know why people who hate the ACA (even if they don't participate) don't want to see it fixed or improved. Why is there all this griping and no effort to change anything? Where is the republican plan to put in place if they ever succeed in repealing it?
> Oh, wait. I forgot. The ACA IS the republican plan, brought to us by Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation.


There is a big difference in MA and the whole country. Ever cook dinner for you and your loved one. And then cook a dinner for the whole town?


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Health insurance companies have been increasing the cost of our premiums for years and years and years. That has nothing to do with the ACA.


 That is so much BS. Of course it has everything to do with the ACA........Insurance premiums have gone up but not like this rise and yes it is because they have to pay for all the coverage whether or not they want it. Let's shove it down their throats and make them pay for it.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Come to think of it the ACA is like a pyramid scheme. The seniors and poor at the top, the middle are the middle class, and at the bottom are the rich and the young. If the young don't sign up under the ACA the pyramid will topple, or the insurance companies will need a bail out. That is the middle class paying again!
> Did you know that the income discrepancy is larger now than when Odummer became the POTUS. But oh how he loves to bring up the inequity. That is how he can snow the poor to vote for him.
> Notice how he blames the Repubicans for everything he can. Maybe he has made some bad choices and needs to stop blaming other?? HMMM?
> He is the one to bring up race, he is the one to say and do things outside the constitution.
> He is the one that is dividing the nation with hate!! HE wants the US divided. He wants us divided so he can take over like HITLER. He is evil and only wants the worst for the US.


I am a senior citizen who PAYS for Medicare and who PAYs for our supplemental insurance. 
Some of you who are so rabid about hating the ACA (read Obama) sound like you're 3 sheets to the wind. (I suppose the young ones don't understand that.) the hatred is within yourself. Nobody can GIVE you hate.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> All I have heard is griping ,al. No plan to fix it at all.


Weren't you leaving for Vegas hours ago? That wouldn't have been another lib lie would it?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> That is so much BS. Of course it has everything to do with the ACA........Insurance premiums have gone up but not like this rise and yes it is because they have to pay for all the coverage whether or not they want it. Let's shove it down their throats and make them pay for it.


My premiums have gone up every single year for many years before the dawn of The ACA. No BS, dear.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> There is a big difference in MA and the whole country. Ever cook dinner for you and your loved one. And then cook a dinner for the whole town?


The Massachusetts health care laws are just like the ACA???? I doubt it.
Besides you wanted to own it just a minute ago, and now you say it is the republicans fault.
Which is it??????


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I am a senior citizen who PAYS for Medicare and who PAYs for our supplemental insurance.
> Some of you who are so rabid about hating the ACA (read Obama) sound like you're 3 sheets to the wind. (I suppose the young ones don't understand that.) the hatred is within yourself. Nobody can GIVE you hate.


So you love the government. When it fails you don't cry Ok?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> The Massachusetts health care laws are just like the ACA???? I doubt it.
> Besides you wanted to own it just a minute ago, and now you say it is the republicans fault.
> Which is it??????


Can you read. You are responding to my post that says they aren't alike. OMG.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Do you know talking to yourself is listed in OBAMACARE as a treatable illness?


I wasn't talking to myself, I was obviously talking to Cheeky. had you read the quote above my response you would have seen that.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> My premiums have gone up every single year for many years before the dawn of The ACA. No BS, dear.


You can stick your "dear" where the sun don't shine, it is very insincere.
And you don't know the difference in sky rocketing increases and regular increases????
If they were "Affordable" all the young would be clamoring to sign up.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> What Kammyv4 said has nothing to do with the so-called greed of the insurance companies but as she so aptly stated all the non-essentials and/or items which only have relevance to specific populations. Example: obstetrical medicine for men, Pediatric services for those individuals without children, on and on.


Once again, these are coming from the insurance companies. If they don't want the services they should have them taken out of their policies.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> There is a big difference in MA and the whole country. Ever cook dinner for you and your loved one. And then cook a dinner for the whole town?


Yes, I certainly understand it is a big undertaking. But here we are in America with all these entrepreneurs who certainly know how to do things on a grand scale. So where are they when you need them? Oh, they don't care? They've got theirs and too bad for the rest of the poor schlumps? 
We can run wars on a grand scale, education, the IRS---all kinds of things run on a grand scale. Fix it, give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day.


----------



## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Can you read. You are responding to my post that says they aren't alike. OMG.


I was adding to your post. You know bolstering your position.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So you love the government. When it fails you don't cry Ok?


Where in Gods name did I say I love the government? How do you presume to know what I love?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Weren't you leaving for Vegas hours ago? That wouldn't have been another lib lie would it?


I didn't say when I was leaving, I said I had to pack. And I am packed. Do you have comprehension problems? Or problems reading in general?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Yes, I certainly understand it is a big undertaking. But here we are in America with all these entrepreneurs who certainly know how to do things on a grand scale. So where are they when you need them? Oh, they don't care? They've got theirs and too bad for the rest of the poor schlumps?
> We can run wars on a grand scale, education, the IRS---all kinds of things run on a grand scale. Fix it, give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day.


There is a quick fix. It's called repeal.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I didn't say when I was leaving, I said I had to pack. And I am packed. Do you have comprehension problems? Or problems reading in general?


No but you have communication problems. You said BYE BYE.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> There is a quick fix. It's called repeal.


Ain't gonna happen. After 40 times wasting taxpayers money it won't be repealed. It's the law. The Supreme Court seem to like it.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> I was adding to your post. You know bolstering your position.


Oh ok, Didn't seem that way.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ain't gonna happen. After 40 times wasting taxpayers money it won't be repealed. It's the law. The Supreme Court seem to like it.


The Supreme court likes a lot of things don't make it right.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> No but you have communication problems. You said BYE BYE.


I said good night. But now that I have some free time I am back to chat with Cheeky and NJG and alcameron.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You can stick your "dear" where the sun don't shine, it is very insincere.
> And you don't know the difference in sky rocketing increases and regular increases????
> If they were "Affordable" all the young would be clamoring to sign up.


Insincere? No kidding. You understand sarcasm? 
Yes, I do know the difference, and I also know that insurance premiums and healthcare costs In general have been skyrocketing for years. That's the main reason for trying to do something about healthcare!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> The Supreme court likes a lot of things don't make it right.


Yeah well, Republicans want to take food out of the mouths of poor children, doesn't make it right.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Since Obamacare, I have had benefits--my son could stay on my policy much longer, and I no longer have to pay out of pocket for an annual physical. The program is new, we all have to give it time. The insurance companies are unfortunately still in the game, and their bottom line is their profits, not that people can have the peace of mind of having good health care when they need it. Members of Congress, when John Kerry was running for president, only paid $7,000 a year for premium coverage. He said he wanted the rest of America to get as good a deal. What a different world we might be living in right now if only he had been elected. We would never have invaded Iraq for starters!


Thanks Joyce. It's working for a lot of us and the people who say it isn't have no real stories to share and if you ask them how it is bad or not working they either ignore you or come back with something that makes no sense. I have heard only a couple stories that are believable and I think these people were being on the up and up and maybe need some more resources for themselves or their loved ones and don't know how to access them. Others live in states that would not set up their own exchanges which would have offered their people many more options and also they refused to accept the federal aid offered to help their state Medicaid programs. The ones they should be angry with are their own state legislators for doing this as it hurt a lot of people and those people certainly are not going to reelect those people.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Insincere? No kidding. You understand sarcasm?
> Yes, I do know the difference, and I also know that insurance premiums and healthcare costs In general have been skyrocketing for years. That's the main reason for trying to do something about healthcare!


Keep trying al. You are correct, however some just can't get it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> There is a quick fix. It's called repeal.


You're wrong, in my opinion. Repealing the ACA won't fix a thing, IMO.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You're wrong, in my opinion. Repealing the ACA won't fix a thing, IMO.


And we all know about opinions don't we?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Specifically what additional coverage?



Janet Cooke said:


> Kammy is only speaking of her insurance and maybe some anecdotal pieces.
> 
> My health care insurance (I repeat myself here) went up $60. for the year and the additional coverage more than makes up for that increase.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes, I certainly understand it is a big undertaking. But here we are in America with all these entrepreneurs who certainly know how to do things on a grand scale. So where are they when you need them? Oh, they don't care? They've got theirs and too bad for the rest of the poor schlumps?
> We can run wars on a grand scale, education, the IRS---all kinds of things run on a grand scale. Fix it, give it a chance. Rome wasn't built in a day.


Yes they only had three years to build the web site didn't they? In three years during WWII what got accomplished? A whole he** of a lot more, and probably for less considering inflation.
The Republicans routinely give more to charities than other political parties, so yea we are so selfish!! You caught me.......

Do conservatives give more to charitable causes than liberals? According to Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks, they do. Dr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuses Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, was quite astounded with the results of his own research, which was so at variance with the common perception of the generous liberal and the Scrooge-like conservative.
In his book, Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservativism (Basic Books, 2006), Brooks discovered that approximately equal percentages of liberals and conservatives give to private charitable causes. However, conservatives gave about 30 percent more money per year to private charitable causes, even though his study found liberal families earned an average of 6 percent more per year in income than did conservative families. This greater generosity among conservative families proved to be true in Brooks research for every income group, from poor to middle class to rich.
This giving gap also extended beyond money to time donated to charitable causes, as well. Brooks also discovered that in 2002, conservative Americans were much more likely to donate blood each year than liberals and to do so more often within a year. Brooks found if liberals and moderates gave blood at the same rate as conservatives, the blood supply in the United States would jump by about 45 percent.
When Brooks compared his findings to IRS data on the percentage of household income given away, he found that red states in the 2004 election were more charitable than blue states. Brooks found that 24 of the 25 states that were above average in family charitable giving voted for Bush in 2004, and 17 of the 25 states below average in giving voted for Kerry. Brooks concluded, The electoral map and the charity map are remarkably similar.
Why? A clue may be found in the 1996 General Social Survey, which asked Americans whether they agreed that the government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality. People who disagreed strongly with that statement gave 12 times more money to charity per year than those who agreed strongly with the statement.
Ones values, beliefs and political philosophies seem to impact how much one shares of ones own income with the less fortunate in society. Facts are often surprising and illuminating.

Read more: http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/castingstones/2008/04/conservatives-give-more-to-cha.html#ixzz2tTFGrjYj


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I wasn't talking to myself, I was obviously talking to Cheeky. had you read the quote above my response you would have seen that.


I know what I "see"


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks Joyce. It's working for a lot of us and the people who say it isn't have no real stories to share and if you ask them how it is bad or not working they either ignore you or come back with something that makes no sense. I have heard only a couple stories that are believable and I think these people were being on the up and up and maybe need some more resources for themselves or their loved ones and don't know how to access them. Others live in states that would not set up their own exchanges which would have offered their people many more options and also they refused to accept the federal aid offered to help their state Medicaid programs. The ones they should be angry with are their own state legislators for doing this as it hurt a lot of people and those people certainly are not going to reelect those people.


Absolutely! We pay their salary and they should be working for their cionstituents and not their party. Those southern Republican congressmen, governors, and senators are falling down 1 by 1 and I don't think their chances of re-election are very good. If you aren't happy with them then vote them out.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ain't gonna happen. After 40 times wasting taxpayers money it won't be repealed. It's the law. The Supreme Court seem to like it.


Oh now that is funny. They liked Bush too. LOL. They are the biggest hypocrites of all.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Keep trying al. You are correct, however some just can't get it.


I've had enough pleasant banter for one night. I'm turning this off. I think there are those who'll have a big fat headache in the a.m., and it won't be me.
Cheeky, Bratty, and even some others, good night. 
Cheeky, I'm glad you have gotten good coverage under the ACA, and I know many, many others are thankful for being able to purchase same under the ACA.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I wasn't talking to myself, I was obviously talking to Cheeky. had you read the quote above my response you would have seen that.


Again in case you didn't get it . Talking to yourself again?


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

The above also mentions that the liberals made 6% more in income. Who said it was the rich who gain money through government? Must have been republicans cuz the libs are richer than they are!!!! Ahh but they don't give as much and they don't think it is their job to give-it's the government's job!! Right!!!!!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Yes they only had three years to build the web site didn't they? In three years during WWII what got accomplished? A whole he** of a lot more, and probably for less considering inflation.
> The Republicans routinely give more to charities than other political parties, so yea we are so selfish!! You caught me.......
> 
> Do conservatives give more to charitable causes than liberals? According to Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks, they do. Dr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuses Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, was quite astounded with the results of his own research, which was so at variance with the common perception of the generous liberal and the Scrooge-like conservative.
> ...


So who's talking about who gives to charity? The more you have, the more you can give.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I know what I "see"


Then your comment was unwarranted.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> The above also mentions that the liberals made 6% more in income. Who said it was the rich who gain money through government? Must have been republicans cuz the libs are richer than they are!!!! Ahh but they don't give as much and they don't think it is their job to give-it's the government's job!! Right!!!!!!


Good grief, take your Valium! Your composure has left you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I've had enough pleasant banter for one night. I'm turning this off. I think there are those who'll have a big fat headache in the a.m., and it won't be me.
> Cheeky, Bratty, and even some others, good night.
> Cheeky, I'm glad you have gotten good coverage under the ACA, and I know many, many others are thankful for being able to purchase same under the ACA.


Good night al Sweet Dreams!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> And we all know about opinions don't we?


Yes, we know we're entitled to them.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Once again, these are coming from the insurance companies. If they don't want the services they should have them taken out of their policies.


You should know that they can't get these things out of their policies............Remember the set of laws that must be followed when offering insurance??????? Yea that little thing called the ACA.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You're not only informed but your eyes are open.

No rather than fix it they have destroyed it. And now they don't know what to do.

The wonderful intelligentsia of "If you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep your doctor." Same proclamations about insurance plans and recently we have found out about hospitals being added to the mix. And what was gained with all of this? A new title. "Biggest Liar of the Year Award."

How can anyone with a scintilla of intelligence buy into this charade? 


WindingRoad said:


> So if it was broke why not fix it. Are you saying ACA has fixed your subsidizing others.
> 
> There never were roadblocks before. Just lazy people. Just like now. Too lazy to even sign up for the bennies they had before.
> 
> ...


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> The above also mentions that the liberals made 6% more in income. Who said it was the rich who gain money through government? Must have been republicans cuz the libs are richer than they are!!!! Ahh but they don't give as much and they don't think it is their job to give-it's the government's job!! Right!!!!!!


7 out of the top ten richest in Congress are Democrats. 70%. I don't wanna hear it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Yes they only had three years to build the web site didn't they? In three years during WWII what got accomplished? A whole he** of a lot more, and probably for less considering inflation.
> The Republicans routinely give more to charities than other political parties, so yea we are so selfish!! You caught me.......
> 
> Do conservatives give more to charitable causes than liberals? According to Syracuse University professor Arthur C. Brooks, they do. Dr. Brooks, a professor of public administration at Syracuses Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs, was quite astounded with the results of his own research, which was so at variance with the common perception of the generous liberal and the Scrooge-like conservative.
> ...


When you're talking about having had three years to get the ACA up and running, don't forget that the repub spent 40 million dollars on campaigns to tear it down. And it looks as though some of you believed all the propaganda and added to the problems.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> 7 out of the top ten richest in Congress are Democrats. 70%. I don't wanna hear it.


So what?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> You're not only informed but your eyes are open.
> 
> No rather than fix it they have destroyed it. And now they don't know what to do.
> 
> ...


YAWN Good night


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> You're not only informed but your eyes are open.
> 
> No rather than fix it they have destroyed it. And now they don't know what to do.
> 
> ...


To that question I have no answer. I sadly admit it.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> YAWN Good night


Yes tell us one more time. We missed it before. Leave already.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

alcameron said:


> So what?


Can you answer your own question? I bet you can't.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ain't gonna happen. After 40 times wasting taxpayers money it won't be repealed. It's the law. The Supreme Court seem to like it.


No the Supreme Court had to change it to like it, which in that fact alone makes it Unconstitutional. They had to change it because it wasn't constitutional when it was given to them.
Proper grammar would be they seemed to like it. As in past tense.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

NO it's not greed. It's paying off student loans of several $100,000, it's paying for a mortgage, it's paying for the increased operating costs of seeing patients. It's called SURVIVAL.



SQM said:


> Many doctors in NYC are refusing insurance including medicare. It is not worth it on their parts since they cannot make the same amount of money off these patients. They now provide concierge service where you pay an additional annual fee just for the privilege to see and be billed by these doctors. Psychologists were the first to jump ship. And this all happened before the care act. GREED.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> NO it's not greed. It's paying off student loans of several $100,000, it's paying for a mortgage, it's paying for the increased operating costs of seeing patients. It's called SURVIVAL.


I wonder how many of these libs would take a major cut in pay if the government decreed it. Why, what with all the support they give here, there would be blood in the streets. Sorta like that last sit in. What was it called? Sit in America. I can't remember. Google here I come. LOL

Occupy Wall Street. That did so much for America. Can't you feel it. Why just yesterday I read that some banks are lowering their criteria for home loans again.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> So what?


Did you just say so what????? Republicans are constantly being accused of giving the richest 1% loop holes in taxes, Republicans are constantly being accused of this by DEMOCRATS! 
How about the inequality in income in the US???? One of bho's talking points. Why don't they give it to the poor and reduce that income inequality???


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Did you just say so what????? Republicans are constantly being accused of giving the richest 1% loop holes in taxes, Republicans are constantly being accused of this by DEMOCRATS!
> How about the inequality in income in the US???? One of bho's talking points. Why don't they give it to the poor and reduce that income inequality???


Funny how the facts trip them up every time. 70%..

BTW I think OBIE was addressing Congress when he said If you like your policy you can keep it, It you like your doctor you can keep him. 
And Congress has.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> When you're talking about having had three years to get the ACA up and running, don't forget that the repub spent 40 million dollars on campaigns to tear it down. And it looks as though some of you believed all the propaganda and added to the problems.


People who oppose it are allowed to do so. I don't know how that responds to a web site not being able to be built in three years at millions of dollars. Oh that's right, mo got her friend to do it. Too bad the friend didn't need to bid on the contract or even do a good job. Or even be in the US! Good going of the federal government to give a no bid contract to a firm that isn't even a US firm and give jobs to US citizens. OOOPs I am wrong again! they would have been illegals doing the work and we wouldn't even have gotten federal taxes out of them.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Yes, we know we're entitled to them.


No, silly, she meant just like bu** hol** everyone has one. I think she meant where your opinion came from.....


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

alcameron said:


> When you're talking about having had three years to get the ACA up and running, don't forget that the repub spent 40 million dollars on campaigns to tear it down. And it looks as though some of you believed all the propaganda and added to the problems.


I believe that ten college freshmen could have gotten that web site up and functioning with better security than it will ever have.
And 40 million is a drop in the bucket compared to what was spent on a non-functioning, unsecured web site.
It looks as if one lie after another isn't enough to see through a jac* as* that doesn't have you or your family in his best interest.
And it is the libs fault for making them spend it! If they could have seen how stupid it was they could have spared the wastefulness.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> You are so wrong, wrong wrong. The new ACA is making the reimbursements so low that if she did accept the coverage she could be in bankruptcy in a blink of an eye! You are so full of vile statements, and you have to blame everyone but the guy who is behind all of this mess...the current POTUS.


I haven't said anything vile to anyone. I am not wrong about anything I have posted. If I don't know something I say so. It is you who has a problem and are vile for attacking me. It isn't a mess. It is working well and the Republicans can't deal with that.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Only you of low intellect would exclaim that landing a lot of punches was doing good. All you libs want to do is bully people and sling mud. Just like all the other threads you invade.


We didn't invade this thread. I started it. Invading and trashing other peoples threads is the modis operandi of the RWN. Obviously you haven't started at the beginning of my thread or you will see the righties piling on as they always do and leaving piles of crap behind them. I am not surprised that you identify as one of them. You on the right cannot engage with us in any meaningful capacity as you are not capable of doing it. You use the tactic of ill bred and ignorant people and turn into a gang of thugs who love to destroy what they don't understand or don't agree with. Why is that? Better take a look at yourself in the mirror and ask yourself why so nasty and such crass behavior. You are so predictable and have proved my point. Thank you.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I haven't said anything vile to anyone. I am not wrong about anything I have posted. If I don't know something I say so. It is you who has a problem and are vile for attacking me. It isn't a mess. It is working well and the Republicans can't deal with that.


Oh so butter wouldn't melt in your mouth?? Yea, right! It'll work till you need a drug that isn't on their formularies and it isn't there.

Didn't you write this cheeks?????

"So that's how you see yourself? A large green man? Return the Giant to MN where he belongs. You are as sick as KPG. And it's Cheeky Blighter to you. Only my friends call me Cheeks which is a term of endearment from them to me. Guess you wouldn't know what that meant would you? TBBC POTYT"

Never said anything vile???


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> ACA may work for you until you need a drug and it isn't on the formulary. Then you may be stuck paying a drug bill that can be tens of thousands of dollars a moth. AND it doesn't apply to your co-pay or catastrophic cap. Oh sure you can appeal but by then you may be dead. Then the insurance company can say to you "What difference at this time does it matter?"
> Do you recognize those words??????


Oh my someone has a bug up one of their orifaces don't they? I read what drugs were covered and which were not so once again no surprises. You really should try it sometime. I take action for my own well being and know exactly what to expect. I will say it again. I believe you are beside yourself because ACA is working. It's the law so you will just have to deal with it. If their are bugs down the road they will be dealt with and it is a huge step to what we really need, single payer for all. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Oh so butter wouldn't melt in your mouth?? Yea, right! It'll work till you need a drug that isn't on their formularies and it isn't there.
> 
> Didn't you write this cheeks?????
> 
> ...


No. What is vile that I have said? You are the one who is vile not me.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am tired and not full of alcohol, I am going to bed.


Good night, Janet. Sleep well.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> I said nothing about a supplement. I was speaking to the MD taking a cut in pay.


Actually, it is stagnation in pay. Just like the rest of working America they would get a measly .5 increase.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/feb/12/moffit-fixing-the-doc-fix-poses-crucial-test-for-c/


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> That's not what they did in MN. If people had not received their insurance cards on time and had to go to the doctor then all they had to do was have the doctor's office call the insurance company to verify there was coverage in place and they were seen. You contradict yourself by what you said, First you said the doctors won't see patients with this coverage (this form of healthcare) and then you say patients weren't on the list. So which is it? If the doctors are expecting to get paid they must have seen pateints with this health coverge, right? If they haven't been paid yet that is because the insurance company has not paid the claim. ACA does not pay the claims the insurance companies do. You do understand that don't you?


Having work in a medical billing office for years (still work with the staff from a EMR IT perspective) your response makes absolutely no sense. She stated that the clinic where SHE works doesn't take that coverage. Some could have been seen at a facility other than the one where she works and the patients have no card nor does the clinic have any way to verify even if they were to call. The state has not yet provided a list of those who have coverage to anyone.

If the patient was seen at a clinic (other than where this woman works) and a claim submitted to the payer the claim is, more than likely, in a pending status. That means it's not paid nor is it denied and that means the doctors don't know at this time if they will be getting paid or not. The payers are waiting for confirmation from the state as to whether the person has coverage or not before they will pay/deny the claims.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I haven't said anything vile to anyone. I am not wrong about anything I have posted. If I don't know something I say so. It is you who has a problem and are vile for attacking me. It isn't a mess. It is working well and the Republicans can't deal with that.


For you and as a lib that's all you care about is YOU. It's all about YOU and every other lib is all about themselves. Get over yourself. You've made your point. Start another fire this one is all burnt out and you know it.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Having work in a medical billing office for years (still work with the staff from a EMR IT perspective) your response makes absolutely no sense. She stated that the clinic where SHE works doesn't take that coverage. Some could have been seen at a facility other than the one where she works and the patients have no card nor does the clinic have any way to verify even if they were to call. The state has not yet provided a list of those who have coverage to anyone.
> 
> If the patient was seen at a clinic (other than where this woman works) and a claim submitted to the payer the claim is, more than likely, in a pending status. That means it's not paid nor is it denied and that means the doctors don't know at this time if they will be getting paid or not. The payers are waiting for confirmation from the state as to whether the person has coverage or not before they will pay/deny the claims.


I wonder if CB or whatever her name is today, would let her employer hold onto her pay check for a "few weeks"


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head. A lot of people do not understand that it's the insurance companies that are dealing with the claims. Not the government. I think the doctors not taking patients is a hyped up story. If the ACa offers Blue Cross Blue Shield, which is a nation wide Insurance, why would doctors now not accept it? Same with any already existing ins co.


Not true. Just because a provider participates in the MN Medicaid program doesn't mean that he/she can see any MN Medicaid recipient. Many recipients are restricted in who they can see. Also, more and more providers are refusing to participate in government programs and there are a handful that are refusing to accept any insurance at all.

Also, the insurance companies may be the ones dealing with the claims but they still need to get the list of those who are covered from the state first.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I haven't said anything vile to anyone. I am not wrong about anything I have posted. If I don't know something I say so. It is you who has a problem and are vile for attacking me. It isn't a mess. It is working well and the Republicans can't deal with that.


Nah, not you. You're perfect. Right up there with God never ming JC.. You've just told people to stop posting things you can't refute or don't like. How's that working out for you?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Having work in a medical billing office for years (still work with the staff from a EMR IT perspective) your response makes absolutely no sense. She stated that the clinic where SHE works doesn't take that coverage. Some could have been seen at a facility other than the one where she works and the patients have no card nor does the clinic have any way to verify even if they were to call. The state has not yet provided a list of those who have coverage to anyone.
> 
> If the patient was seen at a clinic (other than where this woman works) and a claim submitted to the payer the claim is, more than likely, in a pending status. That means it's not paid nor is it denied and that means the doctors don't know at this time if they will be getting paid or not. The payers are waiting for confirmation from the state as to whether the person has coverage or not before they will pay/deny the claims.


She is asking a question, it is hard to make no sense when asking a question. 
It isn't a billing question, it is a coverage question.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Nah, not you. You're perfect. Right up there with God never ming JC.. You've just told people to stop posting things you can't refute or don't like. How's that working out for you?


...and you, just stop responding to things that you either don't understand or don't like the facts of. 
How about that 9.5% info from the government? Will you be able to put that to good use?


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

NJG said:


> I didn't miss anything. Other states also decided not to participate in the extension. Aren't those on the right always talking about states rights. Well, that is what Minnesota is doing, making the decision as to what they think is best for Minnesota. When you say many people aren't happy about, it probably is just those who had plans cancelled and will have to purchase new plans. The plans were up for cancellation because they do not meet the minimum coverage requirements of the federal health care law, such as pre-existing conditions. If Obama had done nothing, he would have been wrong and since he did something, he is still wrong. The right is just so hypocritical.


obama is back tracking on the minimum requirement clause now due to the millions of Americans that lost their coverage. He just keeps changing his mind and, ignoring the checks and balances put forth in our Constitution, changes existing laws at his whim.

Yes, that 50 year old man and postmenopausal woman needs maternity and birth control pill coverage, don't they. (Sarcasm intended)


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> ...and you, just stop responding to things that you either don't understand or don't like the facts of.
> How about that 9.5% info from the government? Will you be able to put that to good use?


I don't do handouts. Maybe you do but I don't And you can stop telling me when, why, and how to post anytime. Others here have tried and were unsuccessful. You do know the definition of insanity or do I have to remind you?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> She is asking a question, it is hard to make no sense when asking a question.
> It isn't a billing question, it is a coverage question.


BTW I did use Kaiser's calculator. When I put in my income I'd pay 4 times what I'm paying now for very good coverage and only get a bronze plan. So you tell me, what I should do IF my employer stops my coverage? I'd retire and go way below the poverty level. I don't have to claim any of my other retirement moneys.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

jannetie said:


> I don't know about the pills, but have been told by a doctor the sublingual liquid works the same way.


Not so sure. I have some cherry flavored ones that taste much better than the liquid and it stays under my tongue better for the full affect.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

This thread started out to be quite interesting. It has now deteriorated into just another slanging match so I guess it is time for me to unwatch.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> I don't do handouts. Maybe you do but I don't And you can stop telling me when, why, and how to post anytime. Others here have tried and were unsuccessful. You do know the definition of insanity or do I have to remind you?


What you are saying doesn't make sense to me. How is a regulation restricting a private company from gouging you for a service a handout?

I did NOT tell you to stop posting, I SAID that when something comes up that you either do not understand or do not like the looks of your don't respond. 
And now, I am going to stop responding to you for a while as I am tired of watching the circles.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

misellen said:


> This thread started out to be quite interesting. It has now deteriorated into just another slanging match so I guess it is time for me to unwatch.


I guess so. That's your right some of us won't fault you for that.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> What you are saying doesn't make sense to me. How is a regulation restricting a private company from gouging you for a service a handout?
> 
> I did NOT tell you to stop posting, I SAID that when something comes up that you either do not understand or do not like the looks of your don't respond.
> And now, I am going to stop responding to you for a while as I am tired of watching the circles.


Is that a promise? And if it is will you keep it? I sure hope so. Another bites the dust.

The whole ACA is a hand out. No one is paying market value for healthcare insurance. Your employer, if you have one, gets group rates, that is why it is cheaper for you than the private market. If the ACA is coming in under groups rates you are getting a discount. Do you think you are getting it from the insurance company. NO the government is helping with that discount. Too bad you don't understand the basic premise of insurance. Do you really think that if you have flood insurance your house won't be destroyed by a flood and you'll come out on the other side unscathed financially?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe this will have been straightened out in later pages, but Obama was the only one who did not vote for the Iraqi War while in the senate. That is how he came to the nation's attention.


He wasnt in the senate when the vote came up on the floor.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> He wasnt in the senate when the vote came up on the floor.


So I guess we can't blame him. He didn't do anything so he can't be blamed for anything. How convenient. Apathy is alive and well in this country isn't it.

Besides, contrary to some, one vote wouldn't have counted for much anyway. Right?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Once again, these are coming from the insurance companies. If they don't want the services they should have them taken out of their policies.


Nope some of these are minimum requirements set up in Obama care. The people who had their policies canceled where because their policies didnt include these minimums. I have seen some comments about why would you want a policy that didnt have the minimum. Well, if I dont have children or my children are grown why should I be forced to buy coverage that covers them? If am in menopause why should I be forced to buy coverage for contraceptives?I can pick and choose what I want on my car/ home insurance. The Obamacare should have been the same way. Not only that but this legislation was rushed into existance and voted on by people who didnt even read it.


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## loravaughn (Dec 14, 2013)

Being on Medicare has nothing to do with it! I do not have the drug portion of Medicare because it does not pay that well so don't think that just because someone has Medicare we do not have to pay out our nose as well. Let us see how it goes the first time you have a catostrophic illness! Another point and i have just witnessed this at my work. A 40 year old young man in perfect health just signed into Obamacare. Since he is single and makes more than I do, he is paying $79 a month for health and dental but we the tax payer are paying $291 a month of his premium! He is shacked up with his girlfriend and decided that if they got married and she put him on her insurance at work he would have to pay $250 a month so why get married? I am 70 years young and still in the work force to pay my bills and medical bills for my husband from his cancer treatment two years ago so please do not even attempt to talk to me about the ACA and how much my taxes are paying for people who got FREE medical care anyway and then added on some more free loaders from Mexico and people on the unemployment rolls who could mow, clean yards, shovel snow or work at McDonalds!


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> So I guess we can't blame him. He didn't do anything so he can't be blamed for anything. How convenient. Apathy is alive and well in this country isn't it.
> 
> Besides, contrary to some, one vote wouldn't have counted for much anyway. Right?


Nope, I agree with you, I was merely pointing out the error of the other poster who said he was the only one who voted against it when he wasnt even in congress at the time. He said opposed the Iraq war during the 2008 elections. How great is hindsight huh?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> Nope some of these are minimum requirements set up in Obama care. The people who had their policies canceled where because their policies didnt include these minimums. I have seen some comments about why would you want a policy that didnt have the minimum. Well, if I dont have children or my children are grown why should I be forced to buy coverage that covers them? If am in menopause why should I be forced to buy coverage for contraceptives?I can pick and choose what I want on my car/ home insurance.


Actually you're wrong there. I'm not sure about home insurance, but auto insurance absolutely has to meet legal minimums.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're wrong there. I'm not sure about home insurance, but auto insurance absolutely has to meet legal minimums.


I'm sorry. I must have missed the federal law requiring one to purchase auto insurance or be fined. When did that go into effect?


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## carriemae (Aug 28, 2012)

It's not working for the taxpayers and all the people that are paying much higher premiums so you can have cheaper insurance is liberlism pure and simple....moochers electing looters to steal from the producers!!!!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're wrong there. I'm not sure about home insurance, but auto insurance absolutely has to meet legal minimums.


Not at the Federal level.


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## carriemae (Aug 28, 2012)

It's not working for the taxpayers and all the people that are paying much higher premiums so you can have cheaper insurance is liberlism pure and simple....moochers electing looters to steal from the producers!!!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I'm sorry. I must have missed the federal law requiring one to purchase auto insurance or be fined. When did that go into effect?


Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


Driving is a privilege. You can kill people.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


48. Not mandatory in WI and NH.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Nope some of these are minimum requirements set up in Obama care. The people who had their policies canceled where because their policies didnt include these minimums. I have seen some comments about why would you want a policy that didnt have the minimum. Well, if I dont have children or my children are grown why should I be forced to buy coverage that covers them? If am in menopause why should I be forced to buy coverage for contraceptives?I can pick and choose what I want on my car/ home insurance. The Obamacare should have been the same way. Not only that but this legislation was rushed into existance and voted on by people who didnt even read it.


1.Providing contraceptives is a savings for health insurance companies so trying to claim that that adds to the cost of a policy is simply disingenuous. 
2. Do you have some figures that have been determined about how much it costs to have maternity care included in a policy? I have not seen those figures anywhere. 
3. I don't notice any mention of coverage for vasectomies and prostate cancer or viagra. Is it fine with you that we have been paying for those items for years?
4. I think that as you pick an choose your desired coverage for your auto and house insurance that there is a certain floor that you cannot go below, at least if they are still financed, and you get to pic extras...in other words, there are minimums. 
5. If you have an accident in your car or your house burns down, it is on you. I don't have to pick up the tab. So maybe that is the reason that your health insurance has minimums, in the hopes that people will actually take care of their health the system is built to make it possible for people to catch cancers early. The system is figured so that people will get lab work done and find out that they have diabetes.

I have said before, and I repeat, I would happily support a law that says you can opt of the health care insurance guarantee. However, if you get sick and you are one of the few people who can pay for the full boat, go for it. If like the rest of us you would go without treatment because you couldn't afford it. Do that. No whimpering, no begging, just go off into some uninhabited section and be done.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Driving is a privilege. You can kill people.


Obviously--and, like it or not, everyone has a body that will eventually need treatment. I've never understand why some folks howl about the ACA and "having to subsidize poor people's health care" when we've been doing that for years via the Emergency Rooms--one of the most expensive forms of medical treatment around.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


And, of course, any bank insists that there is an insurance policy on that car even if you only owe $30.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


I am in a state that requires it. However, I am perplexed as to why my coverage needs to cover uninsured drivers if coverage is a requirement.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're correct--auto insurance isn't a federal requirement, but nonetheless forty-nine states require it and policies that meet legal minimums.


So, your comparison is not valid.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously--and, like it or not, everyone has a body that will eventually need treatment. I've never understand why some folks howl about the ACA and "having to subsidize poor people's health care" when we've been doing that for years via the Emergency Rooms--one of the most expensive forms of medical treatment around.


Stop with the emergency room bit. It's nothing more than a lie you've heard enough times that you think it's true. It's not true at all.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> 48. Not mandatory in WI and NH.


True, but drivers are required to post bond, cash, or a certificate of self-insurance before they jump in the car.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> I am in a state that requires it. However, I am perplexed as to why my coverage needs to cover uninsured drivers if coverage is a requirement.


You have that backward, your coverage is to cover you if you have a collision with an uninsured driver. 
You are insuring that you will collect even if that driver has no insurance without you having to chase down the reimbursement.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> True, but drivers are required to post bond, cash, or a certificate of self-insurance before they jump in the car.


That may be in WI, susanmos2000, in NH there is no requirement for coverage at all. At least it was that way in the old days. 
I think they can still ride motorcycles without helmets,too. 
And people wonder why we need mandatory coverage.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> True, but drivers are required to post bond, cash, or a certificate of self-insurance before they jump in the car.


I don't see that requirement here for NH

http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/states-that-dont-require-car-insurance/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> So, your comparison is not valid.


Of course it is--the point is that to drive you need insurance or (in two states) a pre-determined amount of cash tucked away in case of an accident. The government refuses to take anyone's word for it that he or she is a good driver and won't smash up someone else's car--as well they should.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I don't see that requirement here for NH
> 
> http://www.carinsurancecomparison.com/states-that-dont-require-car-insurance/


Here's the link that mentions New Hampshire:

http://coverhound.com/blog/post/why-is-car-insurance-mandatory

And one for Wisconsin:

http://oci.wi.gov/consumer/autohome-faqauto.htm#finresp


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That may be in WI, susanmos2000, in NH there is no requirement for coverage at all. At least it was that way in the old days.
> I think they can still ride motorcycles without helmets,too.
> And people wonder why we need mandatory coverage.


Not under 18.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Actually you're wrong there. I'm not sure about home insurance, but auto insurance absolutely has to meet legal minimums.


Really? Then I dont have the option between full coverage or liability only?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That may be in WI, susanmos2000, in NH there is no requirement for coverage at all. At least it was that way in the old days.
> I think they can still ride motorcycles without helmets,too.
> And people wonder why we need mandatory coverage.


True, but they have to post bond and/or cash on a just-in-case basis. That seems reasonable--although why anyone would want to go to all that hassle is beyond me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Only you of low intellect would exclaim that landing a lot of punches was doing good. All you libs want to do is bully people and sling mud. Just like all the other threads you invade.


Actually I of low intellect would like to point out that your phrase "landing a lot of punches was doing good", should actually read "landing a lot punches was doing well" since "landing" is a verb and requires an adverb rather than an adjective.

If you resort to insults, no matter how accurate, you lost, Lady.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Here's the link that mentions New Hampshire:
> 
> http://coverhound.com/blog/post/why-is-car-insurance-mandatory
> 
> ...


Your fist link is a blog and the author can't interpret the laws of NH very well. See my link. Nothing about any moneys having to be available. Who do you believe the insurance company who's trying to sell insurance or a blogger?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Not under 18.


Hair splitting and nit picking are best done in private.

Why not go up to susanmos2000 and admit that you are wrong. That a person must be self insured in NH is the law.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually I of low intellect would like to point out that your phrase "landing a lot of punches was doing good", should actually read "landing a lot punches was doing well" since "landing" is a verb and requires an adverb rather than an adjective.
> 
> If you resort to insults, no matter how accurate, you lost, Lady.


WARNING WILL ROGERS Grammar police are alive and kicking. Nothing real to contribute.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Really? Then I dont have the option between full coverage or liability only?


Could you explain what you think minimum means?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> Really? Then I dont have the option between full coverage or liability only?


Obviously you do--just as with the ACA people have the option of choosing minimal catastrophic coverage or some gold policy with all the bells and whistles. Certainly a healthy young person can't be faulted for choosing the former--but they do need something in case they get fall off a ladder or get run over. I certainly don't want to pay ER rates when they get carted off to the hospital. Let them pay for it themselves.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> Not under 18.


This is from the link that you posted.

States that Dont Require Car Insurance: Other Laws

Additionally, each of the 50 states has different requirements concerning car insurance and the minimum requirements necessary to meet its laws.

*Each and every state has fiscal responsibility laws that state that you must be able to pay for any liabilities that you may cause an accident.*

Furthermore, it is also a requirement in most states that each driver have bodily injury liability insurance.

In various states, licensed drivers may not even register a vehicle without first showing proof that they do indeed have liability insurance. Other states, however, request that its residents need only proof of insurance in the event of an accident or traffic violation. Currently only 3 to 5 states do not require its drivers purchase and hold liability insurance, the laws in each state change annually.

It generally works well to read the full page when you are trying to make a certain point.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> 1.Providing contraceptives is a savings for health insurance companies so trying to claim that that adds to the cost of a policy is simply disingenuous.
> 2. Do you have some figures that have been determined about how much it costs to have maternity care included in a policy? I have not seen those figures anywhere.
> 3. I don't notice any mention of coverage for vasectomies and prostate cancer or viagra. Is it fine with you that we have been paying for those items for years?
> 4. I think that as you pick an choose your desired coverage for your auto and house insurance that there is a certain floor that you cannot go below, at least if they are still financed, and you get to pic extras...in other words, there are minimums.
> ...


But thats the whole thing. I cant refuse to buy health insurance and instead set up my own fund. I have to pay a fine. The government has told me I have to buy something and I have to buy a certain minimum that I dont need. Its like the government has said I have to buy a minimum of 10 pounds of peas every month. Never mind my husdand hates peas and I can only eat 1 pound a month.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Hair splitting and nit picking are best done in private.
> 
> Why not go up to susanmos2000 and admit that you are wrong. That a person must be self insured in NH is the law.


You've broken your promise. Typical lib. I've no reason to apologize. I merely pointed out that there are two intrepretations of the NH law. Again you'll do well or good whichever you choose to not tell me what to do.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Could we get back on track so that we can discuss how people can continue to make Obamacare work for them?


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously you do--just as with the ACA people have the option of choosing minimal catastrophic coverage or some gold policy with all the bells and whistles. Certainly a healthy young person can't be faulted for choosing the former--but they do need something in case they get fall off a ladder or get run over. I certainly don't want to pay ER rates when they get carted off to the hospital. Let them pay for it themselves.


I am waiting to see if hospitals will charge $10 for one aspirin to cover uninsured patients. Bet that doesnt change


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> This is from the link that you posted.
> 
> States that Dont Require Car Insurance: Other Laws
> 
> ...


It doesn't say you have to post a bond in NH though now does it?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> You've broken your promise. Typical lib. I've no reason to apologize. I merely pointed out that there are two intrepretations of the NH law. Again you'll do well or good whichever you choose to not tell me what to do.


There are NOT two interpretations, you just read what you wanted to read.

LOL, if you want to interpret my posts as telling you what to do go right on doing it. It is pretty stupid, but, you are welcome to keep up that angry rhetoric.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> This is from the link that you posted.
> 
> States that Dont Require Car Insurance: Other Laws
> 
> ...


Or this one:

http://www.dmv.org/nh-new-hampshire/car-insurance.php


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Your fist link is a blog and the author can't interpret the laws of NH very well. See my link. Nothing about any moneys having to be available. Who do you believe the insurance company who's trying to sell insurance or a blogger?


OK, how about this? Seems clear enough to me:

http://www.all-about-car-accidents.com/resources/insurance-law/car-insurance/new-hampshire-auto-insu


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

For those of you that think the aca is so wonderful, I have a question! Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?!? Our government is broke! The richest 1% pay NO taxes! They own the congress and the senate and have designed the tax code with loopholes and tax havens so that they don't pay. Neither the republican led congress nor the democrat led senate will ever bite the hand that feeds them! The non partisan congressional budget office has declared that the aca will cause the loss of 2.5 million jobs. That's 2.5 million more PEOPLE that will lose their jobs! So, no matter how wonderful it is, WHO will pay for it?!? China isn't lending us money anymore and neither will anyone else. So the government just keeps printing more. Do you have any idea what is going to happen to you and the rest of us when the dollar crashes? Research it! Find out! In the meantime, the aca isn't about helping anyone! Its about eliminating the middle class and making everyone dependent upon the government! Dependent people are easier to control. Its time to wake up now! Its all about control! I know that you will immediately reject this. But if you care anything about your family, your friends and your country, you will wake up and do some research before it's too late because they are also planning to take control of the internet. Then the knowledge will be lost to you forever. Even if you don't believe me, research it! Google "the economy", "dollar collapse", "national debt". Wake up! Educate yourself!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> OK, how about this? Seems clear enough to me:
> 
> http://www.all-about-car-accidents.com/resources/insurance-law/car-insurance/new-hampshire-auto-insu


And here's the poop from NH's DMV

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/dmv/financial-responsibility/insurance.htm#required


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> It doesn't say you have to post a bond in NH though now does it?


Just how do you think that the state is sure that you continue to have the hundreds of thousands of dollars that may be necessary in an auto accident? 
I suppose a driver could just hand over a million dollars or so to make sure the other driver is whole. Let's let the state of NH hold onto it.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> There are NOT two interpretations, you just read what you wanted to read.
> 
> LOL, if you want to interpret my posts as telling you what to do go right on doing it. It is pretty stupid, but, you are welcome to keep up that angry rhetoric.


You're the one using angry.

Here's the poop straight from the NH DMV.

http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/dmv/financial-responsibility/insurance.htm#required

Notice that phrase right at the top of the page?

No financial responsibility is required. I wonder what that means. Care to interpret it for us? Oh great one.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Nice hearing from you.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> For those of you that think the aca is so wonderful, I have a question! Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?!? Our government is broke! The richest 1% pay NO taxes! They own the congress and the senate and have designed the tax code with loopholes and tax havens so that they don't pay. Neither the republican led congress nor the democrat led senate will ever bite the hand that feeds them! The non partisan congressional budget office has declared that the aca will cause the loss of 2.5 million jobs. That's 2.5 million more PEOPLE that will lose their jobs! So, no matter how wonderful it is, WHO will pay for it?!? China isn't lending us money anymore and neither will anyone else. So the government just keeps printing more. Do you have any idea what is going to happen to you and the rest of us when the dollar crashes? Research it! Find out! In the meantime, the aca isn't about helping anyone! Its about eliminating the middle class and making everyone dependent upon the government! Dependent people are easier to control. Its time to wake up now! Its all about control! I know that you will immediately reject this. But if you care anything about your family, your friends and your country, you will wake up and do some research before it's too late because they are also planning to take control of the internet. Then the knowledge will be lost to you forever. Even if you don't believe me, research it! Google "the economy", "dollar collapse", "national debt". Wake up! Educate yourself!


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could we get back on track so that we can discuss how people can continue to make Obamacare work for them?


NO. Any other questions well be held for review. Besides you've already determined that it's working so which is it. Is it working or not. You don't have to answer. It won't really make a difference to me.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> It doesn't say you have to post a bond in NH though now does it?


Having grown up in NH and got my first drivers license in NH, No, no bond, no insurance requirement, no motorcycle helmets, no income tax, ( pretty high property taxes though), no sales tax.....


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Having grown up in NH and got my first drivers license in NH, No, no bond, no insurance requirement, no motorcycle helmets, no income tax, ( pretty high property taxes though), no sales tax.....


Oh my see my post about the actual LAW. They'll TRY to poke holes but they can't.

What is NH's motto: Live free or die? LOL


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

nuclearfinz said:


> He wasnt in the senate when the vote came up on the floor.


I am kindly suggesting that you are totally, completely wrong.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> But thats the whole thing. I cant refuse to buy health insurance and instead set up my own fund. I have to pay a fine. The government has told me I have to buy something and I have to buy a certain minimum that I dont need. Its like the government has said I have to buy a minimum of 10 pounds of peas every month. Never mind my husdand hates peas and I can only eat 1 pound a month.


We are not talking about vegetable consumption, though, and there is choice over and above the minimums set. 
Pay the fine, it isn't that much, it will be worth it to your peace of mind. 
The amount you are paying is not going to cover the services that you do need if you are the average American, so I just don't understand what this argument of yours is about.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could we get back on track so that we can discuss how people can continue to make Obamacare work for them?


I can add my experiences with the ACA, Janet. Before its passage my husband's company subsidized the Blue Cross extended to employees, and while that helped we were still paying about 50% of the tab. Of course we needed insurance, but it was irksome paying for frills that two healthy adults in the forties plus one twelve-year old child really didn't need.

Happily with the coming of the California exchange the company agreed to give us the subsidy in a lump sum and let us pick whatever insurance we liked. We chose to go with the much cheaper but still adequate Kaiser, which was perfect for us.

We made the switch late last fall, and while it was definitely worthwhile the experience wasn't completely hassle-free. We had some problems logging in during peak business hours, and the system automatically logged us out if we idled on it for more than a minute or two--definitely important to have all necessary document at the ready.

The one real nuisance was having to prove residency for our pre-teen son. Yes, he was born here and yes, he has a Social Security number--didn't make any difference. I had to submit not only his card and his birth certificate but also a letter from his school stating that he had been in constant attendance for the past school year. Still don't know why they wanted all that--when I called to inquire the operator said that verification was done on a random basis, and my son's name had probably been pulled at random (lucky us).


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

nuclearfinz said:


> Having grown up in NH and got my first drivers license in NH, No, no bond, no insurance requirement, no motorcycle helmets, no income tax, ( pretty high property taxes though), no sales tax.....


I'm just guessing that you got your driver's license prior to 2010. That is the documentation that is being used to show that one must provide proof that there is the financial backing to cover the injuries in an accident.

BTW, if you are in Mass you have been paying for those bennies that you are complaining about if you have had health insurance.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> We are not talking about vegetable consumption, though, and there is choice over and above the minimums set.
> Pay the fine, it isn't that much, it will be worth it to your peace of mind.
> The amount you are paying is not going to cover the services that you do need if you are the average American, so I just don't understand what this argument of yours is about.


I guess you didn't hear about soda consumption in NYC and the government intervention there. LOL Capitalism won out when Mikey D's made their smaller drinks cheaper than there larger ones so people could still get what they wanted.

Funny how the government won't ban cigarettes, isn't it. Oh wait it's the $$$$. How silly of me to forget that.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You're the one using angry.
> 
> Here's the poop straight from the NH DMV.
> 
> ...


What does it matter? Even if it's true that NH doesn't require insurance for all drivers that still just one state out of fifty. It's foolhardy to drive without insurance, and the other forty-nine states make no bones about that.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> What does it matter? Even if it's true that NH doesn't require insurance for all drivers that still just one state out of fifty. It's foolhardy to drive without insurance, and the other forty-nine states make no bones about that.


Ah you forgot WI.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I'm just guessing that you got your driver's license prior to 2010. That is the documentation that is being used to show that one must provide proof that there is the financial backing to cover the injuries in an accident.
> 
> BTW, if you are in Mass you have been paying for those bennies that you are complaining about if you have had health insurance.


Providing proof HOW?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I can add my experiences with the ACA, Janet. Before its passage my husband's company subsidized the Blue Cross extended to employees, and while that helped we were still paying about 50% of the tab. Of course we needed insurance, but it was irksome paying for frills that two healthy adults in the forties plus one twelve-year old child really didn't need.
> 
> Happily with the coming of the California exchange the company agreed to give us the subsidy in a lump sum and let us pick whatever insurance we liked. We chose to go with the much cheaper but still adequate Kaiser, which was perfect for us.
> 
> ...


I am so spoiled, I have about fifteen different plans to choose from. To be honest, I have been lazy for the past few years because I have never had any problems getting what I need done, no referrals necessary and the price is reasonable.

Someone else, and I can't remember if was here or on the radio, mentioned having to supply extra info about their kids. That seems so odd to me since kids seem to be the easiest to cover with those extra programs (something chips?) 
Maybe it is to ensure that any kids get pulled off those lists?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> What does it matter? Even if it's true that NH doesn't require insurance for all drivers that still just one state out of fifty. It's foolhardy to drive without insurance, and the other forty-nine states make no bones about that.


There is really no point in trying to communicate with her, Susan, she is like a midgie. Bzzzz Bbzzzzz Bbbzzzzzzzz


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am so spoiled, I have about fifteen different plans to choose from. To be honest, I have been lazy for the past few years because I have never had any problems getting what I need done, no referrals necessary and the price is reasonable.
> 
> Someone else, and I can't remember if was here or on the radio, mentioned having to supply extra info about their kids. That seems so odd to me since kids seem to be the easiest to cover with those extra programs (something chips?)
> Maybe it is to ensure that any kids get pulled off those lists?


I'm guessing kids just haven't lived long enough to generate the proof of residency that adults generally have. Our son's SSN turns up on our tax forms each year, but obviously at his age he's never applied for a driving license, rented an apartment, purchased a home, or held a job. He could have been living overseas from Day One for all the government knows. Having to establish that yes, he's always been a California resident was a hassle, but what can you do?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> I am kindly suggesting that you are totally, completely wrong.


Here's the vote Can you point out where Obama's name is on the list.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/senaterollcall_iraq101002.htm


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> There is really no point in trying to communicate with her, Susan, she is like a midgie. Bzzzz Bbzzzzz Bbbzzzzzzzz


Seems like it, Janet. I hate it when the issue at hand (in this case the ACA) gets lost before it's been thoroughly examined and discussed. Seems like what's happened here, but oh well...sixty-five good and informative pages is pretty impressive


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> There is really no point in trying to communicate with her, Susan, she is like a midgie. Bzzzz Bbzzzzz Bbbzzzzzzzz


And yet you still do even when you say you won't. Maybe you don't know the definition of insanity.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes it is your ideology and you have let your's overtake your common sense. So sad for you.


Don't be sad for me I'm very delighted after a great night sleep


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Don't be sad for me I'm very delighted after a great night sleep


They are in rare form this am and ready for the picking LOL


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## lins (Jan 8, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thanks for clarifying that, Janet. Also, when people say they lost coverage they were told they could keep that is true. What is not true is that President Obama did not lie when he said that. He was wrong but deceit was not the intention.  The truth is that all insurance has to meet minimum requirements now whether through private insurance or ACA. What resulted was private insurance companies raising premiums and or employers deciding not to carry coverage for employees at all. This was not a diabolical plot as Republicans would have you believe it was a mistake. The President didn't want anyone to have "junk" insurance that was being sold in many states and yes it was cheap but if you really got sick and ended up in hospital you were SOL as we say because your insurance wouldn't cover you or would drop you. You would end up with nothing and bankrupt and if you were still alive the rest of the taxpayers would be taking care of you. Take your pick? I would opt tp pay for better coverage and if I needed to buy affordable insurance on the exchange.


Well said. Good explanation.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

lins said:


> Well said. Good explanation.


Sorta like I was wrong once but it was a mistake?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Having work in a medical billing office for years (still work with the staff from a EMR IT perspective) your response makes absolutely no sense. She stated that the clinic where SHE works doesn't take that coverage. Some could have been seen at a facility other than the one where she works and the patients have no card nor does the clinic have any way to verify even if they were to call. The state has not yet provided a list of those who have coverage to anyone.
> 
> If the patient was seen at a clinic (other than where this woman works) and a claim submitted to the payer the claim is, more than likely, in a pending status. That means it's not paid nor is it denied and that means the doctors don't know at this time if they will be getting paid or not. The payers are waiting for confirmation from the state as to whether the person has coverage or not before they will pay/deny the claims.


Whatever floats your boat Thumper. I know what you claim but you have claimed a lot of things before and you would have to be well over 100 by now to have done all the things you claim to be an expert on. All I know is that in MN things worked out just fine for people in these circumstances and they were cared for and we both agree that it is the insurance company holding up payments, pending or not, if payments were due not ACA. She was the one complaining about the doctors struggling because they hadn't been paid. Remember? You never got back to me on how those "friends" of your's are doing. Did they miss the cutoff or are they living out in their car because of Obamacare? That darn plan just wreaks havoc with you doesn't it? It's funny how great it is working for the rest of us. PreferredOne already paid my claims and we are less than two months into the new healthcare so I'm doing my happy dance. :thumbup:


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

As much as I have enjoyed my time with all of you I must get back to knitting my Nadira shawl. I will check back with you ala later on


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yours is a state plan and it works. Ocare is a federal one that doesn't work. Very Different! And because it was so poorly conceived it has never worked and o keeps it on the burner hoping for a miracle with extensions. This can be equated to someone who has a stock which is tanking and just keeps holding it and expecting it to go up. It never goes up and finally is worthless. Only different here is that health care is a more critical commodity.



Mem51 said:


> It's great for me too! Just had cataract surgery on Friday. Didn't cost me a cent! Massachusetts had mandatory insurance long before it went federal. Go figure, MIT Romney, who opposed Obama care started the program when he was Governor of MA . Because of my income I qualified for state health care, thank God!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Mass/ Romney's Plan was thoughtfully conceived therein lies the difference.



Munchn said:


> You are one of the lucky ones.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Friday and you think you aren't gonna pay for something? Give them a chance to add it all up. You'll get a bill.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

If we don't have good health we wouldn't be able to knit.



Nana99 said:


> What does this have to do with knitting and crocheting? There is no need to start political fights on this website. Extremely inappropriate.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Torticollus said:


> It is one thing to be signed up and say you have medical insurance and another to see the accessibility, choices, quality and promptness of care you will receive. Doctors are not happy. They worked hard to get through medical school and are only being reimbursed pennies on the dollar. Many are dropping out.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Not true. Just because a provider participates in the MN Medicaid program doesn't mean that he/she can see any MN Medicaid recipient. Many recipients are restricted in who they can see. Also, more and more providers are refusing to participate in government programs and there are a handful that are refusing to accept any insurance at all.
> 
> Also, the insurance companies may be the ones dealing with the claims but they still need to get the list of those who are covered from the state first.


All the companies have had that information for weeks so you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It may be going on in other states but not here. Two of my doctor's clinics both had signs posted at the registration desks and clients without cards just had to produce ID and the name of the insurer and a phone call was made to confirm. They could also call a number at MNSure to confirm that they were insured and the premium was paid. I believe that almost all had their cards in hand before they needed to visit their doctor. Also all participants received a letter instructing them what to do if this happened. They had all the bases covered. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are a big fibber. Deal with it thumper. I know you are having a real hard time accepting the success of the program especially in your own state. I had a real hard time with Bush as my President but I got over it and you will too. It will be exciting to see which Democrat takes over the Oval office in 2016. Don't see any possibility of a Republican unless they are hiding somebody they will try to run. Your party has really turned off so many groups that I don't think you can possibly get the votes to win. Too bad.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Mass/ Romney's Plan was thoughtfully conceived therein lies the difference.


Well no, no it wasn't. 
Read up on it, there were many problem areas and many issues that had to be dealt with before it was useful to anyone who needed it. 
It can happen with anything. That is why there are pages of errata for pattern books. 
Things improve and work themselves out as time goes by and people have a chance to see what's what.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Many small businesses were paying much above 60%, however this scenario has vastly changed with the introduction of ocare. We now see small businesses choosing to pay the penalty or cutting staff or cutting hours to below the 50 hour, full time employee level. And it still needs to be seen what will happen when large businesses (above 50 employees) participation time kicks in. They were given an extension.

This is the biggest hoax ever foisted on the low intelligent American public.



Janet Cooke said:


> Employers provide more than 60% of workers with health care insurance options.


----------



## Musemom (Nov 6, 2013)

I too have had great experience with Affordable Heathcare. I lost my job in 2008 and have basically been uninsured and unemployable since. I will be able to have Medicare in November of this year. Premiums before ACA would have been close $900 per month which represented the lions share of my fixed income. I am a smoker so my premiums with subsidy are $352 with a $1350 total out of pocket including $600 deductible. So I felt this was extremely affordable for me with my fixed income. Since first of year after being covered I have had colonoscopy (found a polyp), two mammograms (found some lumps so having biopsy this week), bone scan, two ultrasounds, bloodwork, and another biopsy for uterine cancer. So I think I can safely say that pending the biopsy results, having this coverage at this time may have saved my life. I had no problem signing up using my IPAD. My claims have been promptly paid. The coverage I have is using a very popular PPO network in my area. For anyone not covered under an employer plan, with income less than $48,000 I cannot help but think this is a vast improvement. My state chose not to expand Medicaid, so many people I know are not helped, but that is not the fault of ACA but rather a problem caused by the legislature's political decision to ignore the needs of the people it represents. I get very angry when I see ads for politicians who claim to be pro-life and are against any sort of healthcare program or assisted day care or food assistance programs. They need to be honest and say they are pro birth but have no interest in quality of life after birth. I worked in the health insurance industry for many years and saw healthcare costs skyrocket. Is ACA a perfect solution, absolutely not. But it is a first step toward making a real difference in the lives of millions of people. People are so ready to discount it based on all the bad press and out right lies from the far right and not to give it a chance. Just another reason why the US continues to fall behind other industrial nations. So sad.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Many small businesses were paying much above 60%, however this scenario has vastly changed with the introduction of ocare. We now see small businesses choosing to pay the penalty or cutting staff or cutting hours to below the 50 hour, full time employee level. And it still needs to be seen what will happen when large businesses (above 50 employees) participation time kicks in. They were given an extension.
> 
> This is the biggest hoax ever foisted on the low intelligent American public.


Please take the time to read a post prior to responding, thanks.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Musemom said:


> I too have had great experience with Affordable Heathcare. I lost my job in 2008 and have basically been uninsured and unemployable since. I will be able to have Medicare in November of this year. Premiums before ACA would have been close $900 per month which represented the lions share of my fixed income. I am a smoker so my premiums with subsidy are $352 with a $1350 total out of pocket including $600 deductible. So I felt this was extremely affordable for me with my fixed income. Since first of year after being covered I have had colonoscopy (found a polyp), two mammograms (found some lumps so having biopsy this week), bone scan, two ultrasounds, bloodwork, and another biopsy for uterine cancer. So I think I can safely say that pending the biopsy results, having this coverage at this time may have saved my life. I had no problem signing up using my IPAD. My claims have been promptly paid. The coverage I have is using a very popular PPO network in my area. For anyone not covered under an employer plan, with income less than $48,000 I cannot help but think this is a vast improvement. My state chose not to expand Medicaid, so many people I know are not helped, but that is not the fault of ACA but rather a problem caused by the legislature's political decision to ignore the needs of the people it represents. I get very angry when I see ads for politicians who claim to be pro-life and are against any sort of healthcare program or assisted day care or food assistance programs. They need to be honest and say they are pro birth but have no interest in quality of life after birth. I worked in the health insurance industry for many years and saw healthcare costs skyrocket. Is ACA a perfect solution, absolutely not. But it is a first step toward making a real difference in the lives of millions of people. People are so ready to discount it based on all the bad press and out right lies from the far right and not to give it a chance. Just another reason why the US continues to fall behind other industrial nations. So sad.


First of all, good luck with those biopsies, I hope everything is clear and you are just experiencing a terrible scare. 
It seems that one thing people don't understand is that there is a spending cap.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> First of all, good luck with those biopsies, I hope everything is clear and you are just experiencing a terrible scare.
> It seems that one thing people don't understand is that there is a spending cap.


What I thought ACA got rid of the spending cap. Who's impaired this morning?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Nuclearfinz-Perhaps the only good thing about it is to know that you are not the Lone Ranger. Forgive me for making light of it because I appreciate how responsible people have budgets and have certain expectations of how their money will be spent. This has been a crap game where no one knows what their liabilities will be and based on what was said prior to the election had certain expectations of their medical obligation. What fools the Americans.



nuclearfinz said:


> True enough. My company is self insured and their plans must meet minimum standards. They cut the plan I was in so I had to take a plan with a deductable and the drugs costs went from 4-6$ a prescription to 30-50$. I actually pay more for healthcare now.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> All the companies have had that information for weeks so you don't have a clue what you are talking about. It may be going on in other states but not here. Two of my doctor's clinics both had signs posted at the registration desks and clients without cards just had to produce ID and the name of the insurer and a phone call was made to confirm. They could also call a number at MNSure to confirm that they were insured and the premium was paid. I believe that almost all had their cards in hand before they needed to visit their doctor. Also all participants received a letter instructing them what to do if this happened. They had all the bases covered. Sorry to burst your bubble but you are a big fibber. Deal with it thumper. I know you are having a real hard time accepting the success of the program especially in your own state. I had a real hard time with Bush as my President but I got over it and you will too. It will be exciting to see which Democrat takes over the Oval office in 2016. Don't see any possibility of a Republican unless they are hiding somebody they will try to run.


Can't imagine where--unless it's under one of the folds around Christie's middle. Anyone brave enough to check?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I am in a state that requires it. However, I am perplexed as to why my coverage needs to cover uninsured drivers if coverage is a requirement.


Here Thumper I will help you on this one. It is illegal not to be covered in MN but because there are bad people who break the law and are not insured you need protection. Let me know if you still have questions. I am here to help you dear. Note to Thumper; this insurance is not in any way related to ACA.

Most states in the U.S. have enacted a compulsory insurance law that requires vehicle owners to purchase auto liability coverage. Even so, about one out of every seven drivers has no liability insurance. Thus, if you are injured in an auto accident caused by another driver's negligence,there is about a 14% chance that you will have to rely on your company's insurance (or its cash reserves) to cover your losses.

Most compulsory insurance laws specify a minimum amount of liability insurance that a vehicle owner must purchase to drive on public roads. This limit is typically low. For instance, some states require only $15,000 per person and $30,000 per accident for bodily injury and $5,000 for property damage (or $35,000 combined single limit). If you are injured in an auto accident caused by another driver, who has purchased the minimum required limits, the limits might not be enough to cover your medical expenses or the cost to repair your damaged property. Consequently, even if the at-fault drive has insurance, you may still have to rely on your own insurance (or other resources) to cover a portion of your losses.

Fortunately, you can protect your company against costly auto accidents caused by uninsured drivers by purchasing uninsured motorist (UM) coverage. In some states, underinsured motorist (UIM) coverage is also available.

UM and UIM Coverages

Uninsured motorist coverage applies when the at-fault driver has no liability insurance at all. Underinsured motorist (UIM) coverage applies when the at-fault driver has some insurance, but the limit is insufficient to cover your medical (or in some cases) property damage expenses. UIM coverage is not available in every state.

UM coverage is provided under a commercial auto policy via an endorsement. Where UIM is available, it is usually provided in conjunction with UM. Because insurance requirements vary from one jurisdiction to another, each state has developed its own UM endorsement. These endorsements are published by ISO.

UM insurance differs from most liability coverages in that it pays damages to the insured rather than to a third party. It covers sums the insured is legally entitled to recover as damages from the owner or operator of an uninsured vehicle. That is, it covers damages the vehicle owner's or driver's insurer would have paid if the owner or driver had purchased auto insurance.

UM insurance was originally designed to cover bodily injury. Some states have extended their UM law so that it applies to property damage as well. The limit provided for UMPD coverage is generally low, such as $3500. UMPD typically excludes any vehicle that is insured under Collision coverage. This means that if a vehicle that has been damaged by an uninsured driver is covered for collision, UMPD will not apply.

Coverage May be Mandatory

UM and UIM coverages are mandatory in some states. Other states allow you to reject these coverages in writing. Some states require your insurer to offer you a UM/UIM limit that is equal to your liability limit. For example, if your liability limit is $1 million, your insurer may be obligated to offer you a $1 million UM/UIM limit. You may have the option to reject that limit and choose a lower one or to reject UM coverage entirely. In most states your UM limit cannot exceed your auto liability limit.

Stacked Limits

Some states allow you the option to stack limits. Where stacking is available, you may be required to choose either stacked or unstacked limits. Stacking applies only when multiple vehicles are insured under your auto policy for UM or UIM coverage. When stacked limits apply, you can add up the UM/UIM limits for all autos covered under UM/UIM and apply the combined limit to a single auto. For example, suppose you own two autos, each of which is covered for UM at a $300,000 combined single limit. While driving one of the autos, you are injured in an accident caused by an uninsured driver. The UM limit available to you will be $600,000. Stacked coverage is more expensive than unstacked coverage. Many states do not allow UM limits to be stacked.

Who is Covered?

UM is actually a personal auto coverage, but it may be added to a commercial auto policy. The parties covered as insureds typically include you (the named insured) and any resident family member. Obviously, a corporation or partnership has no family members. Family members are insureds only if you are a sole proprietorship. You and your family members are covered while you are driving or occupying a covered auto, and while you are pedestrians.
Also covered as an insured is any other occupant of a covered auto, and anyone entitled to recover damages on behalf of an insured. For example, suppose a passenger of a covered auto is killed in an accident caused by an uninsured driver. The deceased's spouse may be entitled to damages on the deceaseds behalf.

Workers Compensation Exclusion

Many UM endorsements exclude any loss for which an insured is entitled to receive payment under a workers' compensation law. For instance, suppose an employee of yours suffers a broken leg in an accident caused by an uninsured driver. The injury occurred on the job so the employee receives medical benefits under your workers compensation policy. Any damages the worker obtains under UM coverage will be excess of, and will not duplicate, those medical benefits. However, UM may cover some injuries that are not compensable under a WC policy. An example is pain and suffering.

Whether to Buy Coverage

Do you need to buy UM/UIM coverage? One obvious consideration is cost. You can ask your agent to obtain quotes for various limits. You should also consider what other types of insurance you have to cover physical injuries or property damage. In other words, if you or an employee is injured in an auto accident caused by an uninsured driver, and you have not purchased UM or UIM coverage, how will you pay for medical expenses and the costs to repair damaged property? Here are some possible sources of coverage. Your agent can help you determine whether purchasing UM makes sense for your firm.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> What I thought ACA got rid of the spending cap. Who's impaired this morning?


I would say the impaired one is the one who thinks she is functioning so well and yet cannot read what is right in front of her. 
This section was quote replied in the same post you decided to reply to, right there in front of your face. You, however, are so anxious to play your silly little game that you either read it and ignored it or you didn't bother to even read what I responded to.

Musemom wrote:
I too have had great experience with Affordable Heathcare. I lost my job in 2008 and have basically been uninsured and unemployable since. I will be able to have Medicare in November of this year. Premiums before ACA would have been close $900 per month which represented the lions share of my fixed income. I am a smoker so my premiums with subsidy are $352 *with a $1350 total out of pocket including $600 deductible.* So I felt this was extremely affordable for me with my fixed income. Since first of year after being covered I have had colonoscopy (found a polyp), two mammograms (found some lumps so having biopsy this week), bone scan, two ultrasounds, bloodwork, and another biopsy for uterine cancer. So I think I can safely say that pending the biopsy results, having this coverage at this time may have saved my life. I had no problem signing up using my IPAD. My claims h


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Gramjo- It should be. Like our education system, the medical system is being dumbed down. And the young people coming out of medical school have never seen the practice level of medicine that you had at the Mayo Clinic. The administrative demands for all health care providers are rapidly increasing and this amounts to having less time available for patient care. There is so much that could be written on this subject. We are being forced to lower our standards of expectations. Like you it is important to be proactive and not intimidated.



gramjo said:


> Health care....I could write a book on our experiences in this house. I will limit myself to saying how varied care can be. My husband was very ill and we left our home state (where medical facilities are supposedly top-notch) and went to Rochester MN...Mayo Clinic. A world of difference. Nine months of tests at home, still no actual diagnosis. Within 12 hours of arriving there we had a diagnosis. Big things and little things...volunteers push a library cart from room to room...they come and will change the artwork in your room to something you like. When you have a test they actually take you straight in to the test...no sitting in a waiting room .......doctors who are teamed up to suit your needs.....someone in the hospital at all times from your team. Incredible patient care. And in the end the bills were less than the ones from our home state. Why can't this level of care be universal?????


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

jvoel said:


> you do have some exploring to do. i hope that you will do so. Beohner is no prize! Republicans eat their own The Dems seem to turn a blind eye and defend their own right to the end. There are countless number of bills that Harry Reid is sitting on. Please notice his downfalls, just as I do about Boehner


There is a bill to make insurance companies reissue all those crappy substandard policies. 
A bill to bring more sanctions against Iran.
There is TPA legislation.
The Keystone pipeline
Bills to cut regulations-which the repbs call jobs bills.

I don't think any of these bills should come to the floor. Because of the coal ash spill in North Carolina and the chemical leak in West Virginia, and the fertilizer plant explosion in West Texas that killed 14 people, why in Gods name would they want less regulation? Big companies already cheat to get by with stuff, so regulate less and then cheat besides would destroy all of us.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> There is a bill to make insurance companies reissue all those crappy substandard policies.
> A bill to bring more sanctions against Iran.
> There is TPA legislation.
> The Keystone pipeline
> ...


 :thumbup:


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here Thumper I will help you on this one. It is illegal not to be covered in MN but because there are bad people who break the law and are not insured you need protection. Let me know if you still have questions. I am here to help you dear. Note to Thumper; this insurance is not in any way related to ACA.
> 
> Most states in the U.S. have enacted a compulsory insurance law that requires vehicle owners to purchase auto liability coverage. Even so, about one out of every seven drivers has no liability insurance. Thus, if you are injured in an auto accident caused by another driver's negligence,there is about a 14% chance that you will have to rely on your company's insurance (or its cash reserves) to cover your losses.
> 
> ...


Blah Blah Blah Where is your back up for all of these assertions?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Stop with the emergency room bit. It's nothing more than a lie you've heard enough times that you think it's true. It's not true at all.


It is true dear. I have been brought into an emergency room and so has my husband and other people I know. For someone who claims to know so much about insurance you sure don't know a lot. Well, here we go again as St. Ronnie would say. Let me explain. If you still need help just ask.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-06/why-a-trip-to-the-emergency-room-costs-a-fortune.html - 86k - Cached - Similar pages


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> First of all, good luck with those biopsies, I hope everything is clear and you are just experiencing a terrible scare.
> It seems that one thing people don't understand is that there is a spending cap.


Did you mean this post? Is there a spending cap or not. Or were you referring to a deductible cap? Which is it?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And the repubs were never allowed to have input into the law. Nor were health care providers consulted. They had ideas which could have reduced the costs (Cross state lines for insurance, thus creating a competitive market. Limit rampant litigation thereby reducing physicians need to practice defensive medicine and eliminate patients from enduring unnecessary procedures. ETC..)

I think we are now close to $17 Trillion since Oct.



nuclearfinz said:


> Actually the whole problem is PAYING for Obamacare. Currently the federal debt is 16 Trillion dollars and rising. The Republicans opposed Obamacare because there was no money to pay for it,


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually I of low intellect would like to point out that your phrase "landing a lot of punches was doing good", should actually read "landing a lot punches was doing well" since "landing" is a verb and requires an adverb rather than an adjective.
> 
> If you resort to insults, no matter how accurate, you lost, Lady.


Thank you for the clarification of wise one. We must be held to a higher standard. You kind of remind me of Yoda only white and hanging upside down. Got to love you. :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thank you for the clarification of wise one. We must be held to a higher standard. You kind of remind me of Yoda only white and hanging upside down. Got to love you. :thumbup:


Actually, the word landing in the phrase is a gerund. And is considered a noun

http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerundphrase.htm


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Did you mean this post? Is there a spending cap or not. Or were you referring to a deductible cap? Which is it?


She probably meant an out-of-pocket cap, not a cap on treatment expenses.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Obviously you do--just as with the ACA people have the option of choosing minimal catastrophic coverage or some gold policy with all the bells and whistles. Certainly a healthy young person can't be faulted for choosing the former--but they do need something in case they get fall off a ladder or get run over. I certainly don't want to pay ER rates when they get carted off to the hospital. Let them pay for it themselves.


Hi Susan I have platinum coverage. That's the one with all the bells and whistles then there is uranium the one that all the terrorists have, the Christian and Muslim ones. The Christian ones are really scary and they have horns and tails.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am kindly suggesting that you are totally, completely wrong.


http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/12/us-usa-politics-obama-idUSN0923153320070212
article from reuters on the 2008 election.

this is were the paragraph is from:

Obama was not in the Senate at the time of the vote but opposed the war from the start. He has proposed a phased withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq to be completed by the end of March 2008, and he told reporters he was uncertain how Clinton intended to end the conflict.
Vote on Iraq resolution took place in Oct 2002. Obama did not become senator till November. Thank you for not being snarky and for participating in a debate.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Physicians practice according to FEE Schedules established by Medicare and insurance companies. They have zero control over what they will be paid and seldom are the fees raised. Only physicians who are on a cash only basis can charge according to what they believe their services are worth. A physician with 15 or more years experience is paid the same as someone just setting up a practice. Many insurances go according to Medicare as they are the secondary payer. Everyone with insurance knows what their co-pays and deductibles will be. Medicaid pays peanuts and do not cover the costs involved in seeing a patient.

And all those evening hours your Physician spends reading tests and laboratory results, discussing your case with other physicians on the phone, writing referrals, etc. are not billable hours like the attorneys. Just something to ponder. These are hours away from family and most physicians are dedicated to their chosen career.



WindingRoad said:


> It is not like your National Insurance. EVERYONE regardless of work status has to have insurance. Granted some will pay very little. If you don't have insurance you will be fined. Right now the fine is small and many will pay that instead of getting insurance. They will either get charity care from hospitals or "free" community clinics set up by citizens. It's against the law here to turn anyone away from an Emergency Room. So people can get immediate care. Follow up care and medications are another story all together.
> 
> When someone goes to their doctor here in the USA, they usually, mostly have a co-pay. Somewhere in the vicinity of $30-$35 dollars. But that isn't the end of the charges. Sometimes insurance doesn't pay the doc enough and there can still be a bill due.
> 
> ...


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She probably meant an out-of-pocket cap, not a cap on treatment expenses.


She probably doesn't know what she's talking about might be a more accurate description.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Physicians practice according to FEE Schedules established by Medicare and insurance companies. They have zero control over what they will be paid and seldom are the fees raised. Only physicians who are on a cash only basis can charge according to what they believe their services are worth. A physician with 15 or more years experience is paid the same as someone just setting up a practice. Many insurances go according to Medicare as they are the secondary payer. Everyone with insurance knows what their co-pays and deductibles will be. Medicaid pays peanuts and do not cover the costs involved in seeing a patient.


I know.


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## nuclearfinz (Feb 23, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Mass/ Romney's Plan was thoughtfully conceived therein lies the difference.


I will concede that however, I am paying for someone else to have better insurance than I have. I had gastric bypass surgery and must take vitamins and supplements for the rest of my life. Mass Health recipients get theirs for free I pay for mine. That extra loose skin from all the weight lost? You got it, they get that surgery for free, my insurance doesnt cover it which is fine but why should it be free for Mass health recipients?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> And the repubs were never allowed to have input into the law. Nor were health care providers consulted. They had ideas which could have reduced the costs (Cross state lines for insurance, thus creating a competitive market. Limit rampant litigation thereby reducing physicians need to practice defensive medicine and eliminate patients from enduring unnecessary procedures. ETC..)
> 
> I think we are now close to $17 Trillion since Oct.


The Repubs had plenty of opportunity to contribute to the law, but they didn't want the law and they didn't want to help it get written. If they were prevented from having input, it was their party leaders who prevented them.

How do you decide what litigation is "rampant"? Many people have suffered permanent damage from medications or at the hands of providers and will have to pay the costs all their lives. If they sue for the millions it will cost them, is that "rampant"?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She probably meant an out-of-pocket cap, not a cap on treatment expenses.


Thanks Empress, it doesn't matter, if I respond to her again in the next four hours I am going to cut all of my fingers off. 
I was responding, as you probably saw, to another woman's post and that windy person pulled and twisted... well, you know... 
OK, back to work.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You're the one using angry.
> 
> Here's the poop straight from the NH DMV.
> 
> ...


You told me I was the "great one". Have you found another "great one"? I am so happy as I don't care for obsessed or possessed people paying attention to me. You really creep me out. So far you haven't contributed one thing to this thread. Why don't you go play on the Obamacare thread with your friends if you are just out here to slam everybody. You remind me of an out of control bumper car and I think all your collisions have rattled your brain. Maybe a nice cup if tea and a nap will make you feel better and improve that temper of yours. You can still redeem yourself dear. I'm pulling for you. :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> She probably doesn't know what she's talking about might be a more accurate description.


Did you bother to read what she sent you to? If not, then the description is of you, not her.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thumper Providers all over the country are confused as to how to handle these patients with the Ag, Pt and Au plans. Sounds like a level of loyalty for the Cunard Cruise Line. Where's the diamond plan?

There are no cards, no number to call for authorizations, no claim forms, no address to submit claims........ and the list goes on. This is what happens with ineptitude.



thumper5316 said:


> Norma, I was thinking the same thing. I live in MN and I'm having my doubts about the claim made here. MNsure website has been an unmitigated disaster and only a small number of people have been successful in signing up via the website and the average wait time for the call center has been over an hour. At least that's what all the news sources have been reporting. Also, those who thought they had coverage are finding that, in reality, they don't.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Winding Road- Good point. WHO is paying for IT?? We the People.



WindingRoad said:


> So you don't think you are subsidizing it? You don't think your neighbor is subsidizing it? Who's paying for it, if everyone who has it is paying less? OR nothing. Are you printing the money now?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Why couldn't you get your shoulder taken care of before??



jayne6666 said:


> yeah! yes yes yes!!
> i think it is the best thing for us 99%'s.
> and expanding medicare will help so many people in need.
> only fox news and people who have NO respect for our President think it is horrible,
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Don't be sad for me I'm very delighted after a great night sleep


Good for you dear. I am happy you are well rested.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> As much as I have enjoyed my time with all of you I must get back to knitting my Nadira shawl. I will check back with you ala later on


Please show us your shawl when you are done. I love shawls and would love to see it.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Cookie- The philosophical difference is that some of us like to assume responsibility and be in control of our lives sans governmental interference. Especially when it relates to something so important and personal.

And your sources concerning roadblocks ARE intellectually dishonest. Many testimonials on here with first hand and personal experiences have been expressed. KPers with real and legitimate concerns for themselves and their loved ones have recounted their facts.



Janet Cooke said:


> That is a philosophical difference.
> To claim that there are roadblocks to care that are just not there is intellectually dishonest.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Cookie-We got it the first time. And you are in Mass. That is a state plan put through by Romney. It is much different than a federal plan which is why so many non-Mass Kpers are expressing their problems and concerns. Their experiences are just as valuable as are yours. And we all say "Hurrah for you."



Janet Cooke said:


> Kammy is only speaking of her insurance and maybe some anecdotal pieces.
> 
> My health care insurance (I repeat myself here) went up $60. for the year and the additional coverage more than makes up for that increase.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Many small businesses were paying much above 60%, however this scenario has vastly changed with the introduction of ocare. We now see small businesses choosing to pay the penalty or cutting staff or cutting hours to below the 50 hour, full time employee level. And it still needs to be seen what will happen when large businesses (above 50 employees) participation time kicks in. They were given an extension.
> 
> This is the biggest hoax ever foisted on the low intelligent American public.


So typical of you RU. Come sweeping in like a vulture looking for road kill, your favorite. You sure are lazy and as with all things new ACA has some problems and they will be worked out and eventually we will have the real deal, Single payer for all of us but the President couldn't get it because the do nothing Republicans such as yourself who don't earn their pay in Washington sat on it. My President and my elected officials did what I asked and I am very happy as are millions of others. Does the term "eat crow" mean anything to you or "sour grapes" oh I forgot vultures only eat things that are rotting. Describes the Republican Party and Tea Party and you and your politics are all really beginning to stink.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> For those of you that think the aca is so wonderful, I have a question! Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?!? Our government is broke! The richest 1% pay NO taxes! They own the congress and the senate and have designed the tax code with loopholes and tax havens so that they don't pay. Neither the republican led congress nor the democrat led senate will ever bite the hand that feeds them! The non partisan congressional budget office has declared that the aca will cause the loss of 2.5 million jobs. That's 2.5 million more PEOPLE that will lose their jobs! So, no matter how wonderful it is, WHO will pay for it?!? China isn't lending us money anymore and neither will anyone else. So the government just keeps printing more. Do you have any idea what is going to happen to you and the rest of us when the dollar crashes? Research it! Find out! In the meantime, the aca isn't about helping anyone! Its about eliminating the middle class and making everyone dependent upon the government! Dependent people are easier to control. Its time to wake up now! Its all about control! I know that you will immediately reject this. But if you care anything about your family, your friends and your country, you will wake up and do some research before it's too late because they are also planning to take control of the internet. Then the knowledge will be lost to you forever. Even if you don't believe me, research it! Google "the economy", "dollar collapse", "national debt". Wake up! Educate yourself!


So... Why do none of you respond??? You think its so wonderful, who's going to pay for it?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Musemom said:


> I too have had great experience with Affordable Heathcare. I lost my job in 2008 and have basically been uninsured and unemployable since. I will be able to have Medicare in November of this year. Premiums before ACA would have been close $900 per month which represented the lions share of my fixed income. I am a smoker so my premiums with subsidy are $352 with a $1350 total out of pocket including $600 deductible. So I felt this was extremely affordable for me with my fixed income. Since first of year after being covered I have had colonoscopy (found a polyp), two mammograms (found some lumps so having biopsy this week), bone scan, two ultrasounds, bloodwork, and another biopsy for uterine cancer. So I think I can safely say that pending the biopsy results, having this coverage at this time may have saved my life. I had no problem signing up using my IPAD. My claims have been promptly paid. The coverage I have is using a very popular PPO network in my area. For anyone not covered under an employer plan, with income less than $48,000 I cannot help but think this is a vast improvement. My state chose not to expand Medicaid, so many people I know are not helped, but that is not the fault of ACA but rather a problem caused by the legislature's political decision to ignore the needs of the people it represents. I get very angry when I see ads for politicians who claim to be pro-life and are against any sort of healthcare program or assisted day care or food assistance programs. They need to be honest and say they are pro birth but have no interest in quality of life after birth. I worked in the health insurance industry for many years and saw healthcare costs skyrocket. Is ACA a perfect solution, absolutely not. But it is a first step toward making a real difference in the lives of millions of people. People are so ready to discount it based on all the bad press and out right lies from the far right and not to give it a chance. Just another reason why the US continues to fall behind other industrial nations. So sad.


Thanks Musemom for sharing your ACA success story and I am so happy you are in good health today. We who are happy are honest enough to admit we aren't where we should be yet but the first step needs to be taken when you begin any journey and President Obama in spite of all the effort the Republicans put forth to stop the whole thing he succeeded. The Republicans and their supporters never admit they make mistakes.
They are the biggest babies I have ever seen in any group of mostly grown men. The conservatives on KP carry on much the same way and then cry and complain of vitimization and persecution from the left. All of them could hold there own in a bar room brawl. I am so happy to have good Democrats representing me with the exception of Eric Paulson. He is the one fly in the ointment and he occasionally does get some things right. I feel bad for others around the country who are paying the price for their do nothing representatives in the House and Senate and their equally incompetent state Republicans. They really put the screws to the people they promised to help.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Two of my doctor's clinics both had signs posted at the registration desks and clients without cards just had to produce ID and the name of the insurer and a phone call was made to confirm. They could also call a number at MNSure to confirm that they were insured and the premium was paid.


How can all these people produce an ID for health insurance when they weren't able to obtain/produce one in order to vote? It was considered a hardship for them to get the ID to vote, yet they have one readily available to use as required for health insurance. Hummmmmmm, something sure doesn't sound kosher here.


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## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Where is your back up on that?


That is what I was wondering, because that sure isn't what it costs.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> How can all these people produce an ID for health insurance when they weren't able to obtain/produce one in order to vote? It was considered a hardship for them to get the ID to vote, yet they have one readily available to use as required for health insurance. Hummmmmmm, something sure doesn't sound kosher here.


It is different IDs I would guess. I doubt that the doctor's office requires a long form birth certificate.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> Cookie-We got it the first time. And you are in Mass. That is a state plan put through by Romney. It is much different than a federal plan which is why so many non-Mass Kpers are expressing their problems and concerns. Their experiences are just as valuable as are yours. And we all say "Hurrah for you."


You left out the people who are "expressing their" happiness at having adequate coverage.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How can all these people produce an ID for health insurance when they weren't able to obtain/produce one in order to vote? It was considered a hardship for them to get the ID to vote, yet they have one readily available to use as required for health insurance. Hummmmmmm, something sure doesn't sound kosher here.


I'm sure they produce the same ID they have used for years to vote, that suddenly wasn't good enough to vote any more. It doesn't sound kosher because republicans are trying to suppress the vote of minorities, not really concerned about fraud as they would like us to believe.


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## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Go to school get educated. Go through the system. Work your way up the chain. Perseverance


What?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I'm sure they produce the same ID they have used for years to vote, that suddenly wasn't good enough to vote any more. It doesn't sound kosher because republicans are trying to suppress the vote of minorities, not really concerned about fraud as they would like us to believe.


Uhoh, within 20 minutes someone will post about the race card.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Blah Blah Blah Where is your back up for all of these assertions?


Here is the link to my source. As I said I can support my posts. You are just a big bag of wind who likes to throw her weight around because she can.

http://businessinsure.about.com/od/commercialauto/a/Underinsured-Motorist-Coverages.htm - 31k - Cached - Similar pages


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> What I thought ACA got rid of the spending cap. Who's impaired this morning?


There is a cap on out of pocket spending for the insured but not a cap on lifetime dollar limits to cover necessary care. There can be exceptions on some non essential spending.

lihttp://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/limits/ - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
The Affordable Care Act prohibits health plans from putting a lifetime dollar limit


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So... Why do none of you respond??? You think its so wonderful, who's going to pay for it?


If they have to admit the taxpayer, then they have to admit they have been taken for a ride. As it is, they are having their celebratory party way to early, thinking everything is great. According to CNBC total enrollment to date is likely 20% lower than that reported by the WH. If this 20% is correct, the number of enrollments is closer to 2.6M than the 3.3M reported.

Robert Laszewski, Pres. of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, said that (paraphrased) February's numbers are running at 50% of what they were in January. "If the February trend continues and if the relatively high rate of people not paying for the plans they chose continues, he doesn't expect there is much hope for the administration to meet even the revised goal of 6M enrollees by March 31." Laszewski also noted that enrollees through January were people who previously had insurance and were replacing plans lost because they were not compliant with Obamacare. They were not the uninsured as implied by the WH. The number of unpaid policies is also chipping away at the number of people actually enrolled.

With WH math being so fuzzy, enrollment numbers down, the explosion of sign ups for Medicaid, the young and healthy not signing up as needed/expected, and the older/sicker population signing up the only way to get Obamacare paid for is have the taxpayers pay for it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> There is a cap on out of pocket spending for the insured but not a cap on lifetime dollar limits to cover necessary care. There can be exceptions on some non essential spending.
> 
> lihttp://www.hhs.gov/healthcare/rights/limits/ - 26k - Cached - Similar pages
> The Affordable Care Act prohibits health plans from putting a lifetime dollar limit


She really doesn't seem to care, Cheeky Blighter, though it is good to post the info anyway. Some will probably appreciate it. 
I posted the specifice info that the poster gave. 
It was quite obvious that I wasn't talking about the lifetime cap that health insurance companies used to use against their customers. 
Glad to see such comprehensive information.


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## binkbrice (May 19, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I wonder if she means this "local paper".
> 
> http://capoliticalnews.com/2014/01/27/chico-familys-health-care-struggle-shows-unaffordable-side-of-covered-california/
> It looks like one of those planted stories once again.
> ...


So if it doesn't make obamacare out to be fantastic it is a planted story?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

nuclearfinz said:


> http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/12/us-usa-politics-obama-idUSN0923153320070212
> article from reuters on the 2008 election.
> 
> this is were the paragraph is from:
> ...


So what's your point. He did what he said what he was going to do and then some. Couldn't stay on the topic of the thread so I guess you got lost. Please try to stick with ACA or go start your own thread and don't add chaos to this one. It's typical of Republican ill bred behavior to go out and defecate on threads they don't like. It shows the bully tactics you use where you try to destroy what you don't understand. Bullys really are just a bunch of insecure louts trying to compensate of their own short comings. I would feel sorry for you but you know it's true and you continue you to force yourself on others rather than sit down and discuss anything as rational adults. Your problem not ours.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Actually, the word landing in the phrase is a gerund. And is considered a noun
> 
> http://www.chompchomp.com/terms/gerundphrase.htm


But is acting as a verb and thus requires an adverb.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

binkbrice said:


> So if it doesn't make obamacare out to be fantastic it is a planted story?


Does it make sense to you that someone would expect to cover four people (the two new ones ill) for the same price that you procured coverage for when it was two? 
I would say that they are lucky that the plan doesn't cost $1300. per month.

And I made a suggestion based on passed observance. 
I can supply example after example if you would like of situations that have been reported by right wing news sites and blogs that have been investigated and proved false.

You are welcome to believe the story, if I come across the story that proves it as a planted story I will try to remember to let you know here.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Physicians practice according to FEE Schedules established by Medicare and insurance companies. They have zero control over what they will be paid and seldom are the fees raised. Only physicians who are on a cash only basis can charge according to what they believe their services are worth. A physician with 15 or more years experience is paid the same as someone just setting up a practice. Many insurances go according to Medicare as they are the secondary payer. Everyone with insurance knows what their co-pays and deductibles will be. Medicaid pays peanuts and do not cover the costs involved in seeing a patient.
> 
> And all those evening hours your Physician spends reading tests and laboratory results, discussing your case with other physicians on the phone, writing referrals, etc. are not billable hours like the attorneys. Just something to ponder. These are hours away from family and most physicians are dedicated to their chosen career.


Yes and one of them is my BIL and he will not abandon any of his patients. He has a very nice lifestyle and sent his children to the best schools in the country. He even lets his patients call him at home and frequently phones them to see how they are doing after a visit to him. I know several good doctors like him including my own family physician who is a friend of his. They spend hours putting in extra time for their patients and their patients love them for it. One of my specialists when I had no coverage a few years back even saw me for a very tiny fee and I will be eternally grateful to him. Not all doctors are consumed by greed and really practice medicine for the right reasons, to help others. Republican thinking always ends up at the altar of the almighty dollar. $$$$$ That's what you are all about just ask Paul Ryan and his goddess Ayn Rand. Now there was a good Christian woman you would want to emulate! You should be so proud. Educate yourself. I did. :lol:


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please show us your shawl when you are done. I love shawls and would love to see it.


You got it you cheeky blighted you!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

binkbrice said:


> What?


Which part of that is confusing?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I know.


That's why you buy supplemental. It was not intended to cover everything.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here is the link to my source. As I said I can support my posts. You are just a big bag of wind who likes to throw her weight around because she can.
> 
> http://businessinsure.about.com/od/commercialauto/a/Underinsured-Motorist-Coverages.htm - 31k - Cached - Similar pages


I swear I am going to find a picture of a cute little cat just cuz I can. This isn't fair! 
Just like Obamacare isn't fair! It isn't fair that I don't own a cat! It must be someone's fault, darn it! Someone other than me caused it! ????!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thumper Providers all over the country are confused as to how to handle these patients with the Ag, Pt and Au plans. Sounds like a level of loyalty for the Cunard Cruise Line. Where's the diamond plan?
> 
> There are no cards, no number to call for authorizations, no claim forms, no address to submit claims........ and the list goes on. This is what happens with ineptitude.


Keep on making it up as you go along RU. You wouldn't be saying such stupid things if you knew what you are talking about and told the truth. I know that isn't part of your rule book. It's all about getting as low down and dirty as you possibly can and destroying Obama and it has been since day one. The Republicans never wanted any kind of healthcare plan because they live to serve the insurance companies, pharma, and all the rest of big money. What we need is to take insurance companies and pharma out of the equation and make them negotiate in Single Payer and force providers to bring down their costs. With all of us in one plan, call it Medicare, they would have to make deals or go out of business. Would the Republicans go for that?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I swear I am going to find a picture of a cute little cat just cuz I can. This isn't fair!
> Just like Obamacare isn't fair! It isn't fair that I don't own a cat! It must be someone's fault, darn it! Someone other than me caused it! ????!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


It's Obama's fault.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

alcameron said:


> It's Obama's fault.


I think so, too. 
After all, he has those darned black dogs. What does he care? He has his, to heck with the rest of us. Darned ol' socialist, commie, Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, black and white, man who was gay until he met, Michelle... oops, forgot fascist.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Cookie- The philosophical difference is that some of us like to assume responsibility and be in control of our lives sans governmental interference. Especially when it relates to something so important and personal.
> 
> And your sources concerning roadblocks ARE intellectually dishonest. Many testimonials on here with first hand and personal experiences have been expressed. KPers with real and legitimate concerns for themselves and their loved ones have recounted their facts.


RU it is not polite to refer to people you don't know by nicknames. You are very rude. I am in control of my life and I take total responsibility for myself and family and I opted for ACA and you do not pay my premiums, I do. If there are others who need help I thank God every day that I can help someone else. Just what any decent person would do. I am sick and tired of listening to you and other Republicans who want to put every liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Socialist or whatever into the same mold. Be assured we are all very unique individuals with a host of differing opinions. I recognize that Republicans are not all the same but are on a spectrum that varies from one end to the other. You need to educate yourself and it is you who have a closed mind not us. We have even disagreed with each other and corrected each other several times on this thread. I have read the thread that you frequent and none of you on the right ever disagree with the other. Does that mean that some magic occurred and you all have come up with eactly the same response to everything? No, what it proves is that all of you are too intellectually lazy to do your homework and let the Republican Party dictate your every thought and action. Would you like to give me "your" thoughts on any topic. Come on try!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> RU it is not polite to refer to people you don't know by nicknames. You are very rude. I am in control of my life and I take total responsibility for myself and family and I opted for ACA and you do not pay my premiums, I do. If there are others who need help I thank God every day that I can help someone else. Just what any decent person would do. I am sick and tired of listening to you and other Republicans who want to put every liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Socialist or whatever into the same mold. Be assured we are all very unique individuals with a host of differing opinions. I recognize that Republicans are not all the same but are on a spectrum that varies from one end to the other. You need to educate yourself and it is you who have a closed mind not us. We have even disagreed with each other and corrected each other several times on this thread. I have read the thread that you frequent and none of you on the right ever disagree with the other. Does that mean that some magic occurred and you all have come up with eactly the same response to everything? No, what it proves is that all of you are too intellectually lazy to do your homework and let the Republican Party dictate your every thought and action. Would you like to give me "your" thoughts on any topic. Come on try!


Why do you insist on being in control of everything?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Here is the link to my source. As I said I can support my posts. You are just a big bag of wind who likes to throw her weight around because she can.
> 
> http://businessinsure.about.com/od/commercialauto/a/Underinsured-Motorist-Coverages.htm - 31k - Cached - Similar pages


I wasn't interested in car insurance.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How can all these people produce an ID for health insurance when they weren't able to obtain/produce one in order to vote? It was considered a hardship for them to get the ID to vote, yet they have one readily available to use as required for health insurance. Hummmmmmm, something sure doesn't sound kosher here.


Have you ever heard of an insurance card, solowey? I guess not. There are also state issued ID's The group of people you are referring to is not the same group of people who you are speaking of who did not have proof to vote in those states trying to suppress voter turnout by the Republicans. Get it right. You should know better than that but I guess I should consider the source. You have been wrong before and I am sure you will be in the future. Let me know if I can help you dear.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> For those of you that think the aca is so wonderful, I have a question! Who do you think is going to pay for all of this?!? Our government is broke! The richest 1% pay NO taxes! They own the congress and the senate and have designed the tax code with loopholes and tax havens so that they don't pay. Neither the republican led congress nor the democrat led senate will ever bite the hand that feeds them! The non partisan congressional budget office has declared that the aca will cause the loss of 2.5 million jobs. That's 2.5 million more PEOPLE that will lose their jobs! So, no matter how wonderful it is, WHO will pay for it?!? China isn't lending us money anymore and neither will anyone else. So the government just keeps printing more. Do you have any idea what is going to happen to you and the rest of us when the dollar crashes? Research it! Find out! In the meantime, the aca isn't about helping anyone! Its about eliminating the middle class and making everyone dependent upon the government! Dependent people are easier to control. Its time to wake up now! Its all about control! I know that you will immediately reject this. But if you care anything about your family, your friends and your country, you will wake up and do some research before it's too late because they are also planning to take control of the internet. Then the knowledge will be lost to you forever. Even if you don't believe me, research it! Google "the economy", "dollar collapse", "national debt". Wake up! Educate yourself!


C'mon, Cheeky Blighter! You started the post by telling us how wonderful it is. Why won't you respond?!? How are we going to pay for it???


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It is different IDs I would guess. I doubt that the doctor's office requires a long form birth certificate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Solwey has comprehension problems Janet and she believes that we are all identical. Exactly the same group of people who didn't have "proper" identification to prove to the Republicans they were "legitimate" voters are the same group that are getting a free ride at her expense on ACA. I would laugh if she wasn't so pathetic in her thinking. Sad, very sad.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Solwey has comprehension problems Janet and she believes that we are all identical. Exactly the same group of people who didn't have "proper" identification to prove to the Republicans they were "legitimate" voters are the same group that are getting a free ride at her expense on ACA. I would laugh if she wasn't so pathetic in her thinking. Sad, very sad.


What's "sad, very sad" is that you ridicule people and make fun of them and yet you never really get to the heart of an issue. You state your opinion and then just attack anyone who disagrees with you. Sad, very sad.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What's "sad, very sad" is that you ridicule people and make fun of them and yet you never really get to the heart of an issue. You state your opinion and then just attack anyone who disagrees with you. Sad, very sad.


You forgot her entourage. Albeit several questionable one's.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So... Why do none of you respond??? You think its so wonderful, who's going to pay for it?


You already shared your wisdom with us now put on your crash
helmet and protective gear and get into your well stocked bunker Henny Penny! Save yourself!

The sky is falling Henny Penny, also known as Chicken Licken or Chicken Little, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a cumulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end. The phrase "The sky is falling!" features prominently in the story, and has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent. Versions of the story go back more than 25 centuries[citation needed], and it continues to be referenced in a variety of media. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You already shared your wisdom with us now put on your crash
> helmet and protective gear and get into your well stocked bunker Henny Penny! Save yourself!
> 
> The sky is falling Henny Penny, also known as Chicken Licken or Chicken Little, is a folk tale with a moral in the form of a cumulative tale about a chicken who believes the world is coming to an end. The phrase "The sky is falling!" features prominently in the story, and has passed into the English language as a common idiom indicating a hysterical or mistaken belief that disaster is imminent. Versions of the story go back more than 25 centuries[citation needed], and it continues to be referenced in a variety of media. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Typical response from you! Instead of the personal attack, why won't you answer the question?!? Who's going to pay for it?!?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I think so, too.
> After all, he has those darned black dogs. What does he care? He has his, to heck with the rest of us. Darned ol' socialist, commie, Muslim, Buddhist, Wiccan, black and white, man who was gay until he met, Michelle... oops, forgot fascist.


And crack smoker.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If they have to admit the taxpayer, then they have to admit they have been taken for a ride. As it is, they are having their celebratory party way to early, thinking everything is great. According to CNBC total enrollment to date is likely 20% lower than that reported by the WH. If this 20% is correct, the number of enrollments is closer to 2.6M than the 3.3M reported.
> 
> Robert Laszewski, Pres. of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, said that (paraphrased) February's numbers are running at 50% of what they were in January. "If the February trend continues and if the relatively high rate of people not paying for the plans they chose continues, he doesn't expect there is much hope for the administration to meet even the revised goal of 6M enrollees by March 31." Laszewski also noted that enrollees through January were people who previously had insurance and were replacing plans lost because they were not compliant with Obamacare. They were not the uninsured as implied by the WH. The number of unpaid policies is also chipping away at the number of people actually enrolled.
> 
> With WH math being so fuzzy, enrollment numbers down, the explosion of sign ups for Medicaid, the young and healthy not signing up as needed/expected, and the older/sicker population signing up the only way to get Obamacare paid for is have the taxpayers pay for it.


You already said the tax payers are footing the whole bill so why don't you tell us something new. I expect there will be problems but I think they can be fixed. You just can't stand the thought that it might succeed. How cruel are you that you would not want everyone who needs care to get it. We are the only first world nation who is lagging behind and many many countries who are poor have better medical outcomes than our system has. It was broken and you don't want to admit the only people it was working for was the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies shareholders. Healthcare should not be a profit driven entity. It never should have become what it is today. Thanks to capitalism we have gone straight to hell. The word monopoly has all but been erased from our memories. Now all that is left is a handful of huge conglomerates worldwide that control everything. We are attempting to turn the tide and it won't be easy but I believe more and more people are waking up to the fact that capitalism isn't the panacea many thought it would be. Sounds like you are for the "death panels" to just get rid of the elderly and infirm. I'm with Bernie Sanders from VT. We need hundreds more people like him in D.C. and in state legislatures. Sorry for going a bit off topic but you get my drift.
This is just my opinion and you are free to agree or disagree. It's still a free country.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky one. I left you a photo on page 69 hope you like it


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> You got it you cheeky blighted you!


Absolutely beautiful and my favorite color. You did an amazing job! I am still in the beginners class in lace knitting. Thanks for posting it.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Typical response from you! Instead of the personal attack, why won't you answer the question?!? Who's going to pay for it?!?


She seems to think Chicken Little is.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I swear I am going to find a picture of a cute little cat just cuz I can. This isn't fair!
> Just like Obamacare isn't fair! It isn't fair that I don't own a cat! It must be someone's fault, darn it! Someone other than me caused it! ????!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


That's the spirit, Janet. With that lovely attitude you could infiltrate the righties and they wouldn't even notice.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I swear I am going to find a picture of a cute little cat just cuz I can. This isn't fair!
> Just like Obamacare isn't fair! It isn't fair that I don't own a cat! It must be someone's fault, darn it! Someone other than me caused it! ????!!!!!! :shock: :shock: :shock:


That's the spirit, Janet. Blame everyone else and take no responsibility for your actions. It's the American, oops the Republican mantra. With that lovely attitude you could infiltrate the righties and they wouldn't even notice. Brilliant as usual :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Cheeky one. I left you a photo on page 69 hope you like it


Not Cheeky, but I thought it was gorgeous. The blocking alone must have taken a few days.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I wasn't interested in car insurance.


Then why did you ask me for it? You still must be under the influence of that damned dragon. Chill, you will feel better when you come out of your drug induced haze.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Typical response from you! Instead of the personal attack, why won't you answer the question?!? Who's going to pay for it?!?


I didn't attack anyone personally but you have and you continue to do so. As I said I pay for mine and for those who can't yes taxpayers such as you and I will help where it is needed. I always knew that was the case. Where have you been? Did Nebraska accept federal Medicaid assistance or opt out?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

ginalola said:


> You got it you cheeky blighted you!


Beautiful shawl. I love the color!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Not Cheeky, but I thought it was gorgeous. The blocking alone must have taken a few days.


Yes P.P. Blocking did take three days. Worth every second!
Thank you


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Then why did you ask me for it? You still must be under the influence of that damned dragon. Chill, you will feel better when you come out of your drug induced haze.


That's just it I didn't.

BTW do you think the Scandinavians are really happy? Why do they have higher suicide rates than the USA

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Cheeky one. I left you a photo on page 69 hope you like it


Beautiful work, ginalola--love the color as well. I'd ask for the pattern, but I know my two cats and/or kid would snag it within minutes.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You already said the tax payers are footing the whole bill so why don't you tell us something new. I expect there will be problems but I think they can be fixed. You just can't stand the thought that it might succeed. How cruel are you that you would not want everyone who needs care to get it. We are the only first world nation who is lagging behind and many many countries who are poor have better medical outcomes than our system has. It was broken and you don't want to admit the only people it was working for was the insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies shareholders. Healthcare should not be a profit driven entity. It never should have become what it is today. Thanks to capitalism we have gone straight to hell. The word monopoly has all but been erased from our memories. Now all that is left is a handful of huge conglomerates worldwide that control everything. We are attempting to turn the tide and it won't be easy but I believe more and more people are waking up to the fact that capitalism isn't the panacea many thought it would be. Sounds like you are for the "death panels" to just get rid of the elderly and infirm. I'm with Bernie Sanders from VT. We need hundreds more people like him in D.C. and in state legislatures. Sorry for going a bit off topic but you get my drift.
> This is just my opinion and you are free to agree or disagree. It's still a free country.


Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism. You fix that by cleaning house. Throw out the corrupt politicians and prosecute every one of them who accepts influence, financial or otherwise. Our healthcare system was the best in the world until regulations were dropped. Hospitals were required to be non profit and doctors cared more about their patients than the millions of rules put forth by insurance companies. When corporations were allowed to take over our healthcare, that's when the problems started. Get to the source of the problem. Your politicians sold you out. When corporations get unfettered access to your lawmakers and you don't, that is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. We're not cruel people who dont want everyone to get care. We want everyone to be able to have a job so that they can pay for their own healthcare. Social programs should only be necessary for people who are unable to work! Jobs used to be plentiful in this country. Your lawmakers made it easy for the corporations to send the jobs to other countries. Demand the jobs back! Don't expect someone else to subsidize you! Eliminate corruption! Work! Be responsible for yourself! Don't accept communism or any of the other isms. History has shown us how that turns out!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Beautiful work, ginalola--love the color as well. I'd ask for the pattern, but I know my two cats and/or kid would snag it within minutes.


It is the Ruxton pattern by Dee o'keefe great KP designer


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I didn't attack anyone personally but you have and you continue to do so. As I said I pay for mine and for those who can't yes taxpayers such as you and I will help where it is needed. I always knew that was the case. Where have you been? Did Nebraska accept federal Medicaid assistance or opt out?


Better read the posts again! You must have your posts confused with mine! If the working people who pay taxes in this country paid 100% of the income to the government, it wouldn't come close to paying for all of the social programs in place! Taxes paid to the government don't even cover the INTEREST on our national debt! Do some research! Every dollar the government spends gets tacked onto the national debt which IS putting us the road to collapse, whether you want to believe it or not. And no, Nebraska did not accept federal funds to set up an exchange. We do however have LOTS of people on medicaid! And we do have a program of affordable healthcare for children. If they don't qualify for either of those, they can go through the federal exchange. But we DO have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. So, if you want to work, you can!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> That's just it I didn't.
> 
> BTW do you think the Scandinavians are really happy? Why do they have higher suicide rates than the USA
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html


Wow I did not know that. I learned something new today


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> That's just it I didn't.
> 
> BTW do you think the Scandinavians are really happy? Why do they have higher suicide rates than the USA
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html


That could be, luckily for them, they don't have all the religious foolishness making them cling to a life they are finished with.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

ginalola said:


> It is the Ruxton pattern by Dee o'keefe great KP designer


It is beautiful! I've only knit one shawl so far, a Haruni. But now I really want to knit a Ruxton! Thanks for sharing!


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It is beautiful! I've only knit one shawl so far, a Haruni. But now I really want to knit a Ruxton! Thanks for sharing!


I haven't made Haruni yet but I do have the pattern


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

ginalola said:


> I haven't made Hardin yet but I do have the pattern


The Haruni was very easy. I knit it in a week under pressure (for my mother in law's birthday). But it was fun!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not Cheeky, but I thought it was gorgeous. The blocking alone must have taken a few days.


Shawl is outstanding. (Blocking???? Does everyone block?)

In the heat of battle, I forget the conservatives are probably better knitters than I am. Now if you can think thru social issues with the same methodicalness........


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Then why did you ask me for it? You still must be under the influence of that damned dragon. Chill, you will feel better when you come out of your drug induced haze.


Winding Road is still winding up. It is early in the evening for her. 
She will be at her fighting best later this evening.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

ginalola said:


> It is the Ruxton pattern by Dee o'keefe great KP designer


Please, don't tempt me!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> That's just it I didn't.
> 
> BTW do you think the Scandinavians are really happy? Why do they have higher suicide rates than the USA
> 
> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html


To be expected if you live in the dark a good part of the year in a frozen environment. I like Scandinavians - stoic, great knitwear and producers of great yarn.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> Winding Road is still winding up. It is early in the evening for her.
> She will be at her fighting best later this evening.


Are you waiting for me. Great.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

SQM said:


> To be expected if you live in the dark a good part of the year in a frozen environment. I like Scandinavians - stoic, great knitwear and producers of great yarn.


Not to mention that it is one person difference per 100K. Sheesh. 
Yank that chain, Baby.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism. You fix that by cleaning house. Throw out the corrupt politicians and prosecute every one of them who accepts influence, financial or otherwise. Our healthcare system was the best in the world until regulations were dropped. Hospitals were required to be non profit and doctors cared more about their patients than the millions of rules put forth by insurance companies. When corporations were allowed to take over our healthcare, that's when the problems started. Get to the source of the problem. Your politicians sold you out. When corporations get unfettered access to your lawmakers and you don't, that is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. We're not cruel people who dont want everyone to get care. We want everyone to be able to have a job so that they can pay for their own healthcare. Social programs should only be necessary for people who are unable to work! Jobs used to be plentiful in this country. Your lawmakers made it easy for the corporations to send the jobs to other countries. Demand the jobs back! Don't expect someone else to subsidize you! Eliminate corruption! Work! Be responsible for yourself! Don't accept communism or any of the other isms. History has shown us how that turns out!


You always do this to me: you say something that gets my back up, and then you say something that's exactly what I've been thinking. I only wish it were possible to put it back the way it was, but with all the power in the hands of the absurdly wealthy, I can't see it happening.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

WindingRoad said:


> Are you waiting for me. Great.


I prefer the straight path but you do make me laugh. I will be expecting you later when you are deeper into your cups.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shawl is outstanding. (Blocking???? Does everyone block?)
> 
> In the heat of battle, I forget the conservatives are probably better knitters than I am. Now if you can think thru social issues with the same methodicalness........


They're also better at blocking: voters, legislation, you name it.

Lace has to be blocked or it just looks dull and skimpy.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Love my witty Purl. 

I forget you all are knitters.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They're also better at blocking: voters, legislation, you name it.
> 
> Lace has to be blocked or it just looks dull and skimpy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> To be expected if you live in the dark a good part of the year in a frozen environment. I like Scandinavians - stoic, great knitwear and producers of great yarn.


It's undoubtedly the dark. In summer you can't get much sleep because night lasts only two hours, but in winter it's daytime that lasts that long.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

This is very entertaining. I guess I didn't realize I was a conservative I do know however I am an American. I enjoy knitting , long walks and hot cocoa by the fire. I also enjoy a good book


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

SQM said:


> I prefer the straight path but you do make me laugh. I will be expecting you later when you are deeper into your cups.


Don't hurt yourself.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ginalola said:


> This is very entertaining. I guess I didn't realize I was a conservative I do know however I am an American. I enjoy knitting , long walks and hot cocoa by the fire. I also enjoy a good book


And you can knit beautiful shawls like nobody I have ever seen!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Who says??
> BTW no one is fooled thinking that is a picture of you, brat.


Okay, but I believe that your avatar is so you.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And you can knit beautiful shawls like nobody I have ever seen!


That's very kind of you. I just follow the pattern and hope I don't drop a stitch


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> Janet Cook said:
> 
> 
> > Could you answer those questions I asked you?
> ...


So your answer is no, you can't answer the questions and instead are evading.

Got it.

:thumbup:


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

jvoel said:


> He has gone BEYOND executive orders.


No he hasn't.

Just because FauxNews tells you so, doesn't mean it's true. As a matter of fact, if FauxNews tells you so, you can pretty much count on it being UNtrue.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> This is very entertaining. I guess I didn't realize I was a conservative I do know however I am an American. I enjoy knitting , long walks and hot cocoa by the fire. I also enjoy a good book


These Boots are made for Walkin'


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Dang, another one of those double posts. 

I will never forget my first trip out to Kentucky and Ohio when I learned that people really do say "dang".


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

lfitzie said:


> I am happy that it is working for you. Sad to know that my 27 year old son is picking up the tab for it and he's barely making ends meet.


Your 27 year old son is not picking up the tab for it.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Dang, another one of those double posts.
> 
> I will never forget my first trip out to Kentucky and Ohio when I learned that people really do say "dang".


Dang Girl. I got a song again. Yesterday it was the funky chicken and today these boots are made fer walkin' I feel all tingly inside!


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Straight from his mouth.http://www.wtam.com/onair/bob-frantz-2693/devastating-video-exposes-obamas-duplicity-re-executive-orders-must-watch-12068519/


Right. Straight from his mouth, he said he'd legally use his executive power. So what?


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

binkbrice said:


> I have a question why is it called the affordable care act when it most definatley is not?


Because for millions of people it most definitely is and for those where it isn't, that's directly related to the GOP preventing the public option from coming into fruition.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You always do this to me: you say something that gets my back up, and then you say something that's exactly what I've been thinking. I only wish it were possible to put it back the way it was, but with all the power in the hands of the absurdly wealthy, I can't see it happening.


WHY is all the power in the hands of the absurdly wealthy? There are more of us than them! If we continually accept what they "give" us, what do you think we will end up with? They aren't giving us anything to be kind to us. This is all part of a plan to control the masses. Why are we doing the exact same thing the Germans did under hitler? At some point, they could see what was happening in their country. But they waited until it was too late to refuse. We still have time to refuse. If we continue to be blinded to what is going on in this country and the world, where will it end? The absurdly wealthy will make hitler look like child's play. This is about control! Stop and think of how much control of our own lives we've lost in just the last twenty years. Its been gradual, so that the masses wouldn't even notice. And its always been "for our own good". But at what point will it NOT be for our own good? And then, will it be too late to stop? Who says we have to cooperate? Have you heard of "civil disobedience"? The masses actually hold the power. They just don't know it. Many doctors are practicing civil disobedience by refusing to participate in o care. They believe that medical decisions should be made by doctors and patients, NOT governments! We need to look not at the details, but the big picture! WHY are they taking away our rights, responsibilities and independence? WHY do they want us dependent and unable to decide what's best for ourselves? Do you really want to let the "absurdly wealthy" decide what is best for you and those you love?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> Your 27 year old son is not picking up the tab for it.


How does anyone figure that a person who is "barely making ends meet" is picking up the tab for anyone or anything. 
To me, that means no taxes... or not enough to pay that person's fair share never mind contributing to another's care.


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Please, don't tempt me!


We'll tempt tempt. 
But remember you have to purchase the pattern so you can see what's in it
:shock:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> We'll tempt tempt.
> But remember you have to purchase the pattern so you can see what's in it
> :shock:


 :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Many small businesses were paying much above 60%, however this scenario has vastly changed with the introduction of ocare. We now see small businesses choosing to pay the penalty or cutting staff or cutting hours to below the 50 hour, full time employee level. And it still needs to be seen what will happen when large businesses (above 50 employees) participation time kicks in. They were given an extension.
> 
> This is the biggest hoax ever foisted on the low intelligent American public.


Strange, many small businesses in my city are using the insurance pools to save on healthcare costs. it is available to everyone.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Why couldn't your daughter keep her Medicaid? If she already had Medicaid she should still have it. The only things that would change that would be a change in her income or the state where she lives not accepting Federal medicaid for residents and she was dropped for that reason. Neither are President Obama's fault or the fault of ACA. Please explain.


Is she talking about those scam plans? She should pay better attention to the news. Those plans have now been included in the list of "exceptions" and her daughter CAN keep the plan if she wants it. At least for another year.

However, evidently they're too stupid to understand that the reason those plans are being phased out is because they were the kind of plans that didn't ACTUALLY pay out what they led rubes to believe they would.

Those plans are the kind of plans that when people actually go to use them, they don't pay out as promised.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

ginalola said:


> Great question. My thought is it is affordable for those who don't work for it and costly for those who work for it


Your thought is wrong. It's affordable for millions and they all work for it. Those who don't (_for a variety of often legitimate reasons_) are already on Medicaid.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> WHY is all the power in the hands of the absurdly wealthy? There are more of us than them! If we continually accept what they "give" us, what do you think we will end up with? They aren't giving us anything to be kind to us. This is all part of a plan to control the masses. Why are we doing the exact same thing the Germans did under hitler? At some point, they could see what was happening in their country. But they waited until it was too late to refuse. We still have time to refuse. If we continue to be blinded to what is going on in this country and the world, where will it end? The absurdly wealthy will make hitler look like child's play. This is about control! Stop and think of how much control of our own lives we've lost in just the last twenty years. Its been gradual, so that the masses wouldn't even notice. And its always been "for our own good". But at what point will it NOT be for our own good? And then, will it be too late to stop? Who says we have to cooperate? Have you heard of "civil disobedience"? The masses actually hold the power. They just don't know it. Many doctors are practicing civil disobedience by refusing to participate in o care. They believe that medical decisions should be made by doctors and patients, NOT governments! We need to look not at the details, but the big picture! WHY are they taking away our rights, responsibility and independence? WHY do they want us dependent and unable to decide what's best for ourselves? Do you really want to let the "absurdly wealthy" decide what is best for you and those you love?


Smart observations except for the doctors. I do believe they are chafing against insurance regulations but not as a political stance but as a financial one.

This country is deliberately fostering fear so we will accept all of our rights being taken away. Cannot get the NSA out of my head.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> These Boots are made for Walkin'
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Your thought is wrong. It's affordable for millions and they all work for it. Those who don't (_for a variety of often legitimate reasons_) are already on Medicaid.


So does that mean I can quit working and become a poet and get affordable healthcare. That would mean my hard working neighbors would have to pitch in to pay for mine. 
Excuse me. My mother didn't teach me that. She said if you want that hair clip you figure out a way to buy it


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

ginalola said:


> That is not hate nor racist it is ideology
> Please keep race out of it


Oh, it's usually due to the racism. The attitudes towards Obama is different from the usual ideological hate.

And race should not be "kept out of it" just because racists don't like to be identified.

Racists speak in "code", and when they're pointed out you can always tell who they are because they start using terms like "race card" and "black grievance industry", cast themselves as the "true" victims of racism and other such terms to try to stop people from identifying racism when it's happening.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism. You fix that by cleaning house. Throw out the corrupt politicians and prosecute every one of them who accepts influence, financial or otherwise. Our healthcare system was the best in the world until regulations were dropped. Hospitals were required to be non profit and doctors cared more about their patients than the millions of rules put forth by insurance companies. When corporations were allowed to take over our healthcare, that's when the problems started. Get to the source of the problem. Your politicians sold you out. When corporations get unfettered access to your lawmakers and you don't, that is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. We're not cruel people who dont want everyone to get care. We want everyone to be able to have a job so that they can pay for their own healthcare. Social programs should only be necessary for people who are unable to work! Jobs used to be plentiful in this country. Your lawmakers made it easy for the corporations to send the jobs to other countries. Demand the jobs back! Don't expect someone else to subsidize you! Eliminate corruption! Work! Be responsible for yourself! Don't accept communism or any of the other isms. History has shown us how that turns out!


This is not socialized healthcare. Single payer would fall under that category.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Strange, many small businesses in my city are using the insurance pools to save on healthcare costs. it is available to everyone.


She is riffing off a post of mine, Bratty Patty, about more than 60% of empoyees having health care coverage from the businesses that employ them. She misread it, of course. 
But, yes, I think that a lot of small companies will help their employees get individual coverage through the exchanges. 
Those companies that can't afford all of that and paying for admin fees, etc. can help with this.


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> Where is your back up on that?


Are you serious?

At this point, are you so misinformed that you don't know about the 9.5% rule in Obamacare? SERIOUSLY?

This is the problem. How can we possibly have an intelligent discussion if people like you aren't even aware of the bare-bone facts of what Obamacare is or isnt


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Smart observations except for the doctors. I do believe they are chafing against insurance regulations but not as a political stance but as a financial one.
> 
> This country is deliberately fostering fear so we will accept all of our rights being taken away. Cannot get the NSA out of my head.


I partly agree with you about the doctors. The insurance regulations are a nightmare for doctors. But they just joined corporate practices to avoid having to deal with it. Back in the 80's when my kids were young, our pediatrician charge $14 for an office visit. Now that those insurance companies practically own the doctors, that same visit is more than $200.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Oh, it's usually due to the racism. The attitudes towards Obama is different from the usual ideological hate.
> 
> And race should not be "kept out of it" just because racists don't like to be identified.
> 
> Racists speak in "code", and when they're pointed out you can always tell who they are because they start using terms like "race card" and "black grievance industry", cast themselves as the "true" victims of racism and other such terms to try to stop people from identifying racism when it's happening.


Wow where did you pick up that tid bit of none sense. Jet magazine


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

ginalola said:


> I work to pay bills and get health care. Pay bills. It's the American way. I don't feel I need to use my hard earned $ to pay for anyone else's health care after I paid for the freedom to work for their own family prosperity


Again, this is why it's impossible to have an informed discussion with people like you.

What you don't seem to understand is that you were ALREADY PAYING FOR other people's health care, except, because there were no price controls, instead of paying say $100 for an X-ray, we, the tax payers would be paying the hopped up non-negotiated price of $10,000 for an Xray. (_Yes, it's not an exaggeration to point out that the markup between a non-negotiated vs negotiated price can be 100X's more._)

Now, because millions of people will be able to afford health insurance, instead of claiming bankruptcy when they can't pay their healthcare bills, _they will no longer be passing along those costs to us._


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> This is not socialized healthcare. Single payer would fall under that category.


Yes, but when not enough of the young, healthy people sign up you can be sure that we WILL have a single payer system. They will blame those young people ( making barely over minimum wage). They will say "we had to do it because the young people were too selfish'". Mark my words! I'm predicting it!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> ginalola is a good lady. Her opinion may be different, but we have had a lot of fun in the past.


Woohoo. Knitting beyond the lines! Remember the knitting room with special chairs for all
Awesome times


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Woohoo. Knitting beyond the lines! Remember the knitting room with special chairs for all
> Awesome times


And don't forget the jukebox!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> And don't forget the jukebox!


And the cabana boys with Palm fans. Ahhhhhhh


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

ginalola said:


> Wow where did you pick up that tid bit of none sense.
> 
> Jet magazine












Example of passive-aggressive racist comment.

You just proved my point FOR me.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, but when not enough of the young, healthy people sign up you can be sure that we WILL have a single payer system. They will blame those young people ( making barely over minimum wage). They will say "we had to do it because the young people were too selfish'". Mark my words! I'm predicting it!


A lot of young healthy people are able to stay on their parent's policies until they are 26. Those with jobs will more than likely have insurance available to them through the work place. Those young people are our future. Give them a chance.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

ginalola said:


> And the cabana boys with Palm fans. Ahhhhhhh


Oh yeah, I remember them! Tight buns and all!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Holy moley. The wind is directing the rain to my door. So scary. Who will come wipe up the water??? Anyone. Anyone


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

VocalLisa said:


> Example of passive-aggressive racist comment.
> 
> You just proved my point FOR me.


OMG. Your so funny. Any mention of a black magazine makes me racist. Honey. You really have no idea who I am. There is no way I could be racist. But I do have a great sense of humor and am well rounded


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism. You fix that by cleaning house. Throw out the corrupt politicians and prosecute every one of them who accepts influence, financial or otherwise. Our healthcare system was the best in the world until regulations were dropped. Hospitals were required to be non profit and doctors cared more about their patients than the millions of rules put forth by insurance companies. When corporations were allowed to take over our healthcare, that's when the problems started. Get to the source of the problem. Your politicians sold you out. When corporations get unfettered access to your lawmakers and you don't, that is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. We're not cruel people who dont want everyone to get care. We want everyone to be able to have a job so that they can pay for their own healthcare. Social programs should only be necessary for people who are unable to work! Jobs used to be plentiful in this country. Your lawmakers made it easy for the corporations to send the jobs to other countries. Demand the jobs back! Don't expect someone else to subsidize you! Eliminate corruption! Work! Be responsible for yourself! Don't accept communism or any of the other isms. History has shown us how that turns out!


We agree on many things and disagree on others. I have been working since I was in high school and always been a wage earning tax paying citizen. There is lots of blame to go around and I agree we need to get rid of people who aren't serving the people. I said above what you pointed out insurance should be not for profit. Things were much better before. Those in govt. work for us, not the other way around. I am a student of history in the U.S. and world history and am well aware of the dangers. Remember capitalism is an ism too and as you say it can be used for good or bad like anything else. Can we agree to disagree and be civil to each other. I have nothing against you personally. We are both Americans who probably want much the same things but may differ a little on how to get there.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

Obviously, a political message.

Can the moderator address this blatant partisinism?

Thank you.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

babesy said:


> Obviously, a political message.
> 
> Can the moderator address this blatant partisinism?
> 
> Thank you.


Why would you want that. I feel this is clearly fair and balanced on both sides. We agree to disagree a Great American value


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

babesy said:


> Obviously, a political message.
> 
> Can the moderator address this blatant partisinism?
> 
> Thank you.


First we have to drum up some money for the mod, how much do you pledge?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Better read the posts again! You must have your posts confused with mine! If the working people who pay taxes in this country paid 100% of the income to the government, it wouldn't come close to paying for all of the social programs in place! Taxes paid to the government don't even cover the INTEREST on our national debt! Do some research! Every dollar the government spends gets tacked onto the national debt which IS putting us the road to collapse, whether you want to believe it or not. And no, Nebraska did not accept federal funds to set up an exchange. We do however have LOTS of people on medicaid! And we do have a program of affordable healthcare for children. If they don't qualify for either of those, they can go through the federal exchange. But we DO have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. So, if you want to work, you can!


Why are you so angry? You are going to make yourself sick getting so worked up. I think we can agree to disagree with you. Neither of us have all the answers but we are talking about one thing here and that s healthcare. Did you read my last reply to you before this one? Maybe you missed it. As I said we do have to get our fiscal house in order and we all have a responsibility to do that. Just as we have to take care of ourselves the government has to clean up it's act and make priorities on spending. I tend to agree with the Democrats and frankly don't understand why the Republicans refused to cooperate with the President or the Democrats. Sitting in Washington doing nothing and yet they got paid? I would cut many programs to allow money to go to healthcare perhaps you would not. I think we had to try to improve things and I do believe we will eventually get there and have single payer. That's what Obama wanted and didn't get. The last thing I want to see is this country going down but I believe believe the Republicans are the ones taking us down that road. Can we agree to disagree and call a truce? I respect your opinions and I hope you will respect mine and let's meet somewhere in the middle. I will if you will.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

babesy said:


> Obviously, a political message.
> 
> Can the moderator address this blatant partisinism?
> 
> Thank you.


I started the thread and for the most part their are two sides to every issue. This one is healthcare. Both sides have strong views and are expressing them. That's it.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, but when not enough of the young, healthy people sign up you can be sure that we WILL have a single payer system. They will blame those young people ( making barely over minimum wage). They will say "we had to do it because the young people were too selfish'". Mark my words! I'm predicting it!


Is it so important that you be right? Who are you trying to impress? I thought maybe we might have some common ground but I can see now we don't. You sound like the crazy guy on the corner with the tin foil hat on his head screaming to no one and everyone; REPENT THE END IS NEAR! Give it a rest and go to bed. Nobody is listening because you scare them away.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Why are you so angry? You are going to make yourself sick getting so worked up. I think we can agree to disagree with you. Neither of us have all the answers but we are talking about one thing here and that s healthcare. Did you read my last reply to you before this one? Maybe you missed it. As I said we do have to get our fiscal house in order and we all have a responsibility to do that. Just as we have to take care of ourselves the government has to clean up it's act and make priorities on spending. I tend to agree with the Democrats and frankly don't understand why the Republicans refused to cooperate with the President or the Democrats. Sitting in Washington doing nothing and yet they got paid? I would cut many programs to allow money to go to healthcare perhaps you would not. I think we had to try to improve things and I do believe we will eventually get there and have single payer. That's what Obama wanted and didn't get. The last thing I want to see is this country going down but I believe believe the Republicans are the ones taking us down that road. Can we agree to disagree and call a truce? I respect your opinions and I hope you will respect mine and let's meet somewhere in the middle. I will if you will.


What makes me angry is when people make a discussion about democrats vs republicans and refuse to look beyond that to the real issues. It would seem to me that you attack instead of trying to make your point known. If you think that I do the same, I'm sorry. I was trying to get you to respond to the real issues rather than the political talking points. I think that the whole democrat\republican thing is a false paradigm. Both sides work for the same people. Neither side has our best interests at heart. They play off of each other to distract the people from what is really going on. I'm as disgusted with the republicans as you are. But I'm also just as disgusted with the democrats. They take advantage of people who think they will take care of them. If they cared about people, they would help them to become independent. Do you think that people living in ghettos on welfare and food stamps are better off? No! They're being given the minimum to keep them down, to keep them under control. The democrat's welfare keeps them from seeking the life they could have chosen if they weren't trapped. Generation after generation, because they think they're getting something for nothing. Nothing is what they're getting. I love people! I want them to realize that we all really just want the same thing. But some have been tricked into thinking there are short cuts. There are no short cuts! Politicians, republicans OR democrats are bought and paid for! They do what they do because someone else (not you) wants them to. It is all about deception and control! Next time I challenge you, I hope you'll understand that I'm trying to get a REAL discussion going about the REAL issues.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Is it so important that you be right? Who are you trying to impress? I thought maybe we might have some common ground but I can see now we don't. You sound like the crazy guy on the corner with the tin foil hat on his head screaming to no one and everyone; REPENT THE END IS NEAR! Give it a rest and go to bed. Nobody is listening because you scare them away.


See? Why do you accuse me of being a tin hatter when I talk about real issues? My opinions are based upon countless hours of research and you are entitled to disagree but why do you resort to ridicule?


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Nite nite folks. 4am comes early. I am pooped and have lots of knitting and packing to do tomorrow


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Nite nite folks. 4am comes early. I am pooped and have lots of knitting and packing to do tomorrow


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> See? Why do you accuse me of being a tin hatter when I talk about real issues? My opinions are based upon countless hours of research and you are entitled to disagree but why do you resort to ridicule?


That is probably because you don't give people any credit for inherent positive human traits. 
Do you really think that you are smarter than anyone else and that only you and yours are willing to work to keep the world afloat? 
People live, they put one foot in front of the other. Have some people had their spirit broken by what they saw as degradation during the deep recession, sure. It happens, just as some people who go to war come home with PTSD and others don't some can go through significant fiscal hardship and others can't. 
For some the logical response to hard times and some physical ailment was SSDI, for others it was grabbing a job at Mickey Dee's and making the most of it. 
That is the way people are. It is not the end of the world, it is the way the world has been forever.

For some the difficulties of the past 12.5 years have been to panic and look at other people and complain about what is seen as weakness, for others the task at hand has been to provide comfort and love and support. 
Different strokes... it will probably balance out, I certainly hope so. If not, if the nation fails... people will keep on.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What makes me angry is when people make a discussion about democrats vs republicans and refuse to look beyond that to the real issues. It would seem to me that you attack instead of trying to make your point known. If you think that I do the same, I'm sorry. I was trying to get you to respond to the real issues rather than the political talking points. I think that the whole democrat\republican thing is a false paradigm. Both sides work for the same people. Neither side has our best interests at heart. They play off of each other to distract the people from what is really going on. I'm as disgusted with the republicans as you are. But I'm also just as disgusted with the democrats. They take advantage of people who think they will take care of them. If they cared about people, they would help them to become independent. Do you think that people living in ghettos on welfare and food stamps are better off? No! They're being given the minimum to keep them down, to keep them under control. The democrat's welfare keeps them from seeking the life they could have chosen if they weren't trapped. Generation after generation, because they think they're getting something for nothing. Nothing is what they're getting. I love people! I want them to realize that we all really just want the same thing. But some have been tricked into thinking there are short cuts. There are no short cuts! Politicians, republicans OR democrats are bought and paid for! They do what they do because someone else (not you) wants them to. It is all about deception and control! Next time I challenge you, I hope you'll understand that I'm trying to get a REAL discussion going about the REAL issues.


I actually agree with you about too many in Congress being bought and paid for. Many of them have close ties to Wall Street and the wealthy Americans who fund their campaign chests. And the idea that an unelected individual (Grover Norquist) can elicit pledges from Congresspersons about how they vote on certain issues repulses me.
This particular thread is dedicated to the ACA. Maybe you could start another thread.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Nite nite folks. 4am comes early. I am pooped and have lots of knitting and packing to do tomorrow


Have a wonderful trip ginalola. Are you by any chance meeting up with another KP'r who shall remain nameless? Either way have fun and I look forward to seeing you again.


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## Candy (Jan 28, 2011)

JeanJ said:


> Glad it's seems to be working for you. It has been nothing but a total disaster for me. Can't we keep the politics off this site? I get enough listening to the daily news and don't need it here as well.


 :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is probably because you don't give people any credit for inherent positive human traits.
> Do you really think that you are smarter than anyone else and that only you and yours are willing to work to keep the world afloat?
> People live, they put one foot in front of the other. Have some people had their spirit broken by what they saw as degradation during the deep recession, sure. It happens, just as some people who go to war come home with PTSD and others don't some can go through significant fiscal hardship and others can't.
> For some the logical response to hard times and some physical ailment was SSDI, for others it was grabbing a job at Mickey Dee's and making the most of it.
> ...


When have I EVER not given people credit for inherent positive human traits?!? I have NO idea what you're talking about! I try to stimulate real discussion about real issues. Because I don't throw insults back and forth, that means...? I have never, ever said that I am smarter than anyone. Because I seek intelligent discussion, is that how you take it? I believe that if people want their lives to get better, they need to see truth, and then DO something! Nothing will get better for anyone unless and until they realize that none of this has been by accident! In fact, Franklin D Roosevelt said: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.".


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What makes me angry is when people make a discussion about democrats vs republicans and refuse to look beyond that to the real issues. It would seem to me that you attack instead of trying to make your point known. If you think that I do the same, I'm sorry. I was trying to get you to respond to the real issues rather than the political talking points. I think that the whole democrat\republican thing is a false paradigm. Both sides work for the same people. Neither side has our best interests at heart. They play off of each other to distract the people from what is really going on. I'm as disgusted with the republicans as you are. But I'm also just as disgusted with the democrats. They take advantage of people who think they will take care of them. If they cared about people, they would help them to become independent. Do you think that people living in ghettos on welfare and food stamps are better off? No! They're being given the minimum to keep them down, to keep them under control. The democrat's welfare keeps them from seeking the life they could have chosen if they weren't trapped. Generation after generation, because they think they're getting something for nothing. Nothing is what they're getting. I love people! I want them to realize that we all really just want the same thing. But some have been tricked into thinking there are short cuts. There are no short cuts! Politicians, republicans OR democrats are bought and paid for! They do what they do because someone else (not you) wants them to. It is all about deception and control! Next time I challenge you, I hope you'll understand that I'm trying to get a REAL discussion going about the REAL issues.


I have tried to tell you my thoughts and that we have some common ground but you have already made assumptions about me and you don't even know me and forgive me but you don't seem to listen. It is like you are shouting and not trying to see the other side of things. I feel like you are preaching at me and it is very off putting. We can discuss real things and real issues but you seem to say you have all the answers to everything and then with your. "Mark my words!" comment you reminded me of a man who would be out on the street every lunch hour in downtown Mpls. He wore a variety of tin foil hats he made and he would rush up to people and start screaming at them about the end of the world. After you got used to him it was OK but no one ever spoke to the poor guy. I don't think you are aware that that is how you are coming across to me. Maybe others don't perceive you as I do but I don't want to interact with you that way. You have to listen to others if you want them to listen to you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I actually agree with you about too many in Congress being bought and paid for. Many of them have close ties to Wall Street and the wealthy Americans who fund their campaign chests. And the idea that an unelected individual (Grover Norquist) can elicit pledges from Congresspersons about how they vote on certain issues repulses me.
> This particular thread is dedicated to the ACA. Maybe you could start another thread.


Think bigger. Its not just Americans that buy the votes. And did you know that OUR federal reserve is owned by foreign banks? I'm not kidding!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have tried to tell you my thoughts and that we have some common ground but you have already made assumptions about me and you don't even know me and forgive me but you don't seem to listen. It is like you are shouting and not trying to see the other side of things. I feel like you are preaching at me and it is very off putting. We can discuss real things and real issues but you seem to say you have all the answers to everything and then with your. "Mark my words!" comment you reminded me of a man who would be out on the street every lunch hour in downtown Mpls. He wore a variety of tin foil hats he made and he would rush up to people and start screaming at them about the end of the world. After you got used to him it was OK but no one ever spoke to the poor guy. I don't think you are aware that that is how you are coming across to me. Maybe others don't perceive you as I do but I don't want to interact with you that way. You have to listen to others if you want them to listen to you.


I'll stop saying snotty thinks like "mark my words" if you stop denigrating people who disagree with you. Again, I'll say that most people want the same things. We sometimes disagree on how to get them. But if not for discussion how do we learn and grow? Im sorry that you think I'm preachy. I don't know what to do about that. I am who I am and I happen to be very direct.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> When have I EVER not given people credit for inherent positive human traits?!? I have NO idea what you're talking about! I try to stimulate real discussion about real issues. Because I don't throw insults back and forth, that means...? I have never, ever said that I am smarter than anyone. Because I seek intelligent discussion, is that how you take it? I believe that if people want their lives to get better, they need to see truth, and then DO something! Nothing will get better for anyone unless and until they realize that none of this has been by accident! In fact, Franklin D Roosevelt said: "In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way.".


Your whole post at 10:06 Eastern Time is full of disdain for American people. 
People who are poor know what they want out of life, for you to put forward that poor people need for your to teach them anything other than skills to support themselves with is ludicrous and insulting. 
Poor people need food, they need clothing to send their children to school in, they need child care that is reliable, they need a decent place to live. 
What they do NOT need is some person who has set herself up as more knowledgeable about their lives than they are, who thinks that they are looking for hand outs and have been brainwashed by the gov't into accepting freebies to come around and set them straight about what they want. 
Honestly, read that. 
Is that what you want? Do you want Bill Gates and Warren Buffett to come to your house and start to educate you about how you don't want enough? Should a couple of NFL football players come and show you how to be fitter so that you can work harder, think smarter... let your brawn earn you some brain? 
You sound like some dogooder from 1890s setting up a settlement house, fgs. 
And, knitter, just because you don't like what you are reading. This is the discussion, intelligent discussion, that your posts spark.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Repubs had plenty of opportunity to contribute to the law, but they didn't want the law and they didn't want to help it get written. If they were prevented from having input, it was their party leaders who prevented them. ?


No...the Repubs were totally shut down from having input. It wan't the Party Leaders. If you recall, President Obama said he would not negotiate with them and refused to come to the table to discuss alternative plans. It is President Obama's way or no way. He has a pen and will use it. Our President believes he has all the answers.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So... Why do none of you respond??? You think its so wonderful, who's going to pay for it?


No response says it all. You have some very valid points. Nice post.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Cookie-But it's not rude to compare someone to a vulture? Cookie is my endearing name I for you.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> RU it is not polite to refer to people you don't know by nicknames. You are very rude. I am in control of my life and I take total responsibility for myself and family and I opted for ACA and you do not pay my premiums, I do. If there are others who need help I thank God every day that I can help someone else. Just what any decent person would do. I am sick and tired of listening to you and other Republicans who want to put every liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Socialist or whatever into the same mold. Be assured we are all very unique individuals with a host of differing opinions. I recognize that Republicans are not all the same but are on a spectrum that varies from one end to the other. You need to educate yourself and it is you who have a closed mind not us. We have even disagreed with each other and corrected each other several times on this thread. I have read the thread that you frequent and none of you on the right ever disagree with the other. Does that mean that some magic occurred and you all have come up with eactly the same response to everything? No, what it proves is that all of you are too intellectually lazy to do your homework and let the Republican Party dictate your every thought and action. Would you like to give me "your" thoughts on any topic. Come on try!


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Have a wonderful trip ginalola. Are you by any chance meeting up with another KP'r who shall remain nameless? Either way have fun and I look forward to seeing you again.


Oh that would be delightful but I am spending time with my sissy who is near her end


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What's "sad, very sad" is that you ridicule people and make fun of them and yet you never really get to the heart of an issue. You state your opinion and then just attack anyone who disagrees with you. Sad, very sad.


This quote is referencing Cheeky Blighter. I tend to agree. 
Most people who can't answer a question based upon facts tend to attack and begun to name call. It is sad.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Oh that would be delightful but I am spending time with my sissy who is near her end


Sending love and prayers your way to you and your dear sister. Your time is precious and I hope you can spend some good time with her and find comfort in each other's company. Bless you both.


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

ginalola said:


> You got it you cheeky blighted you!


Your shawl is beautiful!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Your whole post at 10:06 Eastern Time is full of disdain for American people.
> People who are poor know what they want out of life, for you to put forward that poor people need for your to teach them anything other than skills to support themselves with is ludicrous and insulting.
> Poor people need food, they need clothing to send their children to school in, they need child care that is reliable, they need a decent place to live.
> What they do NOT need is some person who has set herself up as more knowledgeable about their lives than they are, who thinks that they are looking for hand outs and have been brainwashed by the gov't into accepting freebies to come around and set them straight about what they want.
> ...


I have never suggested that I could teach them anything! It is my opinion that they need opportunity! They need to be able to dream of something more, just like you and I do. They need to think that anything in the world, is possible. I have family members who have fallen into the whole welfare trap. They thought it was cool that the government would pay for everything. The particular person I'm thinking of then saw his sister and her family getting ahead. Eventually he wanted more. He got a job and worked hard. He is so much happier now. He has real purpose. He looks like a man with self worth. Say what you want, independence feels good. And I have no problem with discussion even if it criticizes me. If my posts spark discussion, that's the point, isn't it?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Solo you are absolutely correct in your assessment. Providers who participate in Medicare are required by Medicare Law not only to see a photo ID but also keep a copy on file.

And it makes no sense why a voter is not required to produce a photo ID as well. This is for our most cherished government privilege. Is it asking too much to expect a bona fide election?



soloweygirl said:


> How can all these people produce an ID for health insurance when they weren't able to obtain/produce one in order to vote? It was considered a hardship for them to get the ID to vote, yet they have one readily available to use as required for health insurance. Hummmmmmm, something sure doesn't sound kosher here.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What makes me angry is when people make a discussion about democrats vs republicans and refuse to look beyond that to the real issues. It would seem to me that you attack instead of trying to make your point known. If you think that I do the same, I'm sorry. I was trying to get you to respond to the real issues rather than the political talking points. I think that the whole democrat\republican thing is a false paradigm. Both sides work for the same people. Neither side has our best interests at heart. They play off of each other to distract the people from what is really going on. I'm as disgusted with the republicans as you are. But I'm also just as disgusted with the democrats. They take advantage of people who think they will take care of them. If they cared about people, they would help them to become independent. Do you think that people living in ghettos on welfare and food stamps are better off? No! They're being given the minimum to keep them down, to keep them under control. The democrat's welfare keeps them from seeking the life they could have chosen if they weren't trapped. Generation after generation, because they think they're getting something for nothing. Nothing is what they're getting. I love people! I want them to realize that we all really just want the same thing. But some have been tricked into thinking there are short cuts. There are no short cuts! Politicians, republicans OR democrats are bought and paid for! They do what they do because someone else (not you) wants them to. It is all about deception and control! Next time I challenge you, I hope you'll understand that I'm trying to get a REAL discussion going about the REAL issues.


Actually, what she is saying makes perfect sense to me. KFN seems to be able to see below the surface. Where ever KFN stands politically, with this statement she seems quite capable of making a good critique.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

ginalola said:


> Oh that would be delightful but I am spending time with my sissy who is near her end


So sorry ginalola. I'm glad you're going to be able to see her. Prayers.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The ID required of medical offices is the same as that required for boarding an airplane......"A government issued photo." Usually we use drivers licenses, photo ID by the MVA's or passport photo.

A birth certificate obviously would not be representative of what the individual looks like today. The purpose of the photo ID is to validate that the person seeking services looks like the photo. And this could be easily translated to the voting precinct.

If there is no intent of fraud, what is the problem??



Janet Cooke said:


> It is different IDs I would guess. I doubt that the doctor's office requires a long form birth certificate.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually, what she is saying makes perfect sense to me. KFN seems to be able to see below the surface. Where ever KFN stands politically, with this statement she seems quite capable of making a good critique.


Thanks for that. Well it looks like I got the stimulating discussion but I didn't get much knitting done. I'm off to bed. Good night everyone!


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> WHY is all the power in the hands of the absurdly wealthy? There are more of us than them! If we continually accept what they "give" us, what do you think we will end up with? They aren't giving us anything to be kind to us. This is all part of a plan to control the masses. Why are we doing the exact same thing the Germans did under hitler? At some point, they could see what was happening in their country. But they waited until it was too late to refuse. We still have time to refuse. If we continue to be blinded to what is going on in this country and the world, where will it end? The absurdly wealthy will make hitler look like child's play. This is about control! Stop and think of how much control of our own lives we've lost in just the last twenty years. Its been gradual, so that the masses wouldn't even notice. And its always been "for our own good". But at what point will it NOT be for our own good? And then, will it be too late to stop? Who says we have to cooperate? Have you heard of "civil disobedience"? The masses actually hold the power. They just don't know it. Many doctors are practicing civil disobedience by refusing to participate in o care. They believe that medical decisions should be made by doctors and patients, NOT governments! We need to look not at the details, but the big picture! WHY are they taking away our rights, responsibilities and independence? WHY do they want us dependent and unable to decide what's best for ourselves? Do you really want to let the "absurdly wealthy" decide what is best for you and those you love?


Everyone should read the book, "Terrible Things", by Eve Bunting. It is a children's book, and an easy read but it talks about what is happening today. We can't sit by and think: it doesn't pertain to me. 
We shouldn't sit by and believe what the politicians are telling us. We need to be thinking for ourselves. As of now, the current government--dem or rep--are doing all they can to create a population that relies on the government to save them. The government can't save you. Only you, your family, and your neighbors can save you. Look at the prominent leaders throughout history and you will see this is true. The Government can't save you---recent example:Georgia with their last snowstorm. What did the Government do for them?


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

ginalola said:


> So does that mean I can quit working and become a poet and get affordable healthcare. That would mean my hard working neighbors would have to pitch in to pay for mine. /quote]
> 
> Yes....according to Jay Carney, people can choose to not work and get affordable healthcare. Which means the rest of us pay for the subsidies. He stated this in his latest public address. Isn't it wonderful?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

NO. You are not in my league.

PS I am not a Republican



Cheeky Blighter said:


> RU it is not polite to refer to people you don't know by nicknames. You are very rude. I am in control of my life and I take total responsibility for myself and family and I opted for ACA and you do not pay my premiums, I do. If there are others who need help I thank God every day that I can help someone else. Just what any decent person would do. I am sick and tired of listening to you and other Republicans who want to put every liberal, Democrat, Progressive, Socialist or whatever into the same mold. Be assured we are all very unique individuals with a host of differing opinions. I recognize that Republicans are not all the same but are on a spectrum that varies from one end to the other. You need to educate yourself and it is you who have a closed mind not us. We have even disagreed with each other and corrected each other several times on this thread. I have read the thread that you frequent and none of you on the right ever disagree with the other. Does that mean that some magic occurred and you all have come up with eactly the same response to everything? No, what it proves is that all of you are too intellectually lazy to do your homework and let the Republican Party dictate your every thought and action. Would you like to give me "your" thoughts on any topic. Come on try!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Cookie-But it's not rude to compare someone to a vulture? Cookie is my endearing name I for you.


RU I have read enough of your posts and have no desire to interact with you. I was surprised to see you out on this thread and I wanted to let you know how I felt about that and I guess I did get your attention. We will never see I to eye and I knew you only showed up to be obnoxious. Since this is a public site I couldn't stop you so here you are again. How nice for you. You didn't call me Cookie but a friend of mine. It is rude to be familiar with people who are strangers to you and you know it. I have seen you in action and saw that you were acting like a vulture. They circle over and let others do all the work and then like to steal away the dead carcass from those who already did the work. I thought it was very appropriate. If you don't like it leave. Nobody invited you in the first place.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gjz said:


> ginalola said:
> 
> 
> > So does that mean I can quit working and become a poet and get affordable healthcare. That would mean my hard working neighbors would have to pitch in to pay for mine. /quote]
> ...


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

gjz said:


> ginalola said:
> 
> 
> > So does that mean I can quit working and become a poet and get affordable healthcare. That would mean my hard working neighbors would have to pitch in to pay for mine. /quote]
> ...


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Get a life a go play with the rest of your buddies. RU knows the way. All you are good for is crapping all over other people's threads and then leaving your poop for others to shovel up after you, so yes you are all extremely rude and nasty.


What? What did I say that was nasty and rude?


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska- I too would like to hear the answer to your clearly stated question. It certainly pertains to every hard working American.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Typical response from you! Instead of the personal attack, why won't you answer the question?!? Who's going to pay for it?!?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Get a life a go play with the rest of your buddies. RU knows the way. All you are good for is crapping all over other people's threads and then leaving your poop for others to shovel up after you, so yes you are all extremely rude and nasty.


That is because we all think a like we even dress a like and we talk a like. Yes we do get along better than some others But then when we set our minds to it we can agree with each other it is called acting like a grown up. Thats why I am an Independant. 
You and the group may want to try it. Beats name callling any day.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

PP- Didn't he write about that in his book? I remember reading it there.



Poor Purl said:


> And crack smoker.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> NO. You are not in my league.
> 
> PS I am not a Republican


You can say that again and I am thankful not to be where you are. Nothing to envy about your league. So you are not a Republican, who cares? Is that meaningful to me. Nope.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> That is because we all think a like we even dress a like and we talk a like. Yes we do get along better than some others But then when we set our minds to it we can agree with each other it is called acting like a grown up. That's why I am an Independant.
> You and the group may want to try it. Beats name callling any day.


And your point is what? Aren't you calling the kettle black. Your friends don't belittle and call others names. Take off your bind fold little girl and look at LTL and KPG and RU and Gerslay. It's you who needs to grow up and take off your rose colored glasses. Goody you are an Independent. Why would that be important to me. My friends and I are all grown and act that way. We are also not all in the same political party and we also are all not crazy about President Obama but some of your good Christian threads have made disgusting sexual remarks about us and the President. Is that would good Christains do? I know your friends do. We could air all your dirty laundry too just like a couple of your friends are so proud to do and then they say they are followers of Christ. God must just love you all and your behavior.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeks be careful of what you say your words may come back to haunt you as the saying goes.

What you think of as left just maybe Right.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

KFN- Might I add get rid of the lobbyists so that the people can take back their country. And place limits on the vulgar amounts of $$ spent on winning jobs which pay less than the money that was spent to procure them. Why would anyone do that? Hhuuuummm. And what about term limits for Congress? Politics should not be a career.

Forgive my going off topic but I am not alone.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism. You fix that by cleaning house. Throw out the corrupt politicians and prosecute every one of them who accepts influence, financial or otherwise. Our healthcare system was the best in the world until regulations were dropped. Hospitals were required to be non profit and doctors cared more about their patients than the millions of rules put forth by insurance companies. When corporations were allowed to take over our healthcare, that's when the problems started. Get to the source of the problem. Your politicians sold you out. When corporations get unfettered access to your lawmakers and you don't, that is not capitalism, but crony capitalism. We're not cruel people who dont want everyone to get care. We want everyone to be able to have a job so that they can pay for their own healthcare. Social programs should only be necessary for people who are unable to work! Jobs used to be plentiful in this country. Your lawmakers made it easy for the corporations to send the jobs to other countries. Demand the jobs back! Don't expect someone else to subsidize you! Eliminate corruption! Work! Be responsible for yourself! Don't accept communism or any of the other isms. History has shown us how that turns out!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> And your point is what? Aren't you calling the kettle black. Your friends don't belittle and call others names. Take off your bind fold little girl and look at LTL and KPG and RU and Gerslay. It's you who needs to grow up and take off your rose colored glasses. Goody you are an Independent. Why would that be important to me. My friends and I are all grown and act that way. We are also not all in the same political party and we also are all not crazy about President Obama but some of your good Christian threads have made disgusting sexual remarks about us and the President. Is that would good Christains do? I know your friends do. We could air all your dirty laundry too just like a couple of your friends are so proud to do and then they say they are followers of Christ. God must just love you all and your behavior.


Your kitty has your rose colored glasses.

dirty laundry you can hang it out there as I have seen the same on your side. 
As to sexual remarks it would do you good to look at some of the things you and your friends have posted. 
God loves me not because of my behavior but because I know who he is and what his son has done for me. It's called forgiveness , I am only human just like you but I do know where to turn to.

Also I have no respect for your opinion as you saw fit to be nasty to a lady I have know since I join KP. Why you attack her because she does not agree with you about ACA. She never posted to you before. Your response was uncalled for, instead of helping or asking her why you attack her so much for wanting to understand and help someone.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

KFN- You are so wise. What you say is too threatening for the typical American's belief system.

And those in DC need to be told they work for us. WE pay their salaries. (Although their salaries could not be their major source of income). Wouldn't it be refreshing to have non politicians in DC for a decade or so to clean up the mess? Have you ever run for public office? Why not consider it?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What makes me angry is when people make a discussion about democrats vs republicans and refuse to look beyond that to the real issues. It would seem to me that you attack instead of trying to make your point known. If you think that I do the same, I'm sorry. I was trying to get you to respond to the real issues rather than the political talking points. I think that the whole democrat\republican thing is a false paradigm. Both sides work for the same people. Neither side has our best interests at heart. They play off of each other to distract the people from what is really going on. I'm as disgusted with the republicans as you are. But I'm also just as disgusted with the democrats. They take advantage of people who think they will take care of them. If they cared about people, they would help them to become independent. Do you think that people living in ghettos on welfare and food stamps are better off? No! They're being given the minimum to keep them down, to keep them under control. The democrat's welfare keeps them from seeking the life they could have chosen if they weren't trapped. Generation after generation, because they think they're getting something for nothing. Nothing is what they're getting. I love people! I want them to realize that we all really just want the same thing. But some have been tricked into thinking there are short cuts. There are no short cuts! Politicians, republicans OR democrats are bought and paid for! They do what they do because someone else (not you) wants them to. It is all about deception and control! Next time I challenge you, I hope you'll understand that I'm trying to get a REAL discussion going about the REAL issues.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Cheeks be careful of what you say your words may come back to haunt you as the saying goes.
> 
> What you think of as left just maybe Right.


Are you threatening me with harm Yarnlady? Please do not call me Cheeks. My name is Cheeky or Cheeky Blighter. Do want to explain what your little riddle means or are you just having some harmless fun. Yes, the political left is correct so we agree on that. I will be looking for your answer tomorrow. Thank's and good night.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your kitty has your rose colored glasses.
> 
> dirty laundry you can hang it out there as I have seen the same on your side.
> As to sexual remarks it would do you good to look at some of the things you and your friends have posted.
> ...


It's all straightened out Yarnlady. I used to think you were a nice person too and maybe you still are. I have no axe to grind with you it's some of your friends I don't care for.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Your kitty has your rose colored glasses.
> 
> dirty laundry you can hang it out there as I have seen the same on your side.
> As to sexual remarks it would do you good to look at some of the things you and your friends have posted.
> ...


I know who you are talking about and she is my friend too. I misunderstood why she posted as she did and it's all good between us. You may read things and not understand either and then see later you were wrong.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

gjz said:


> No...the Repubs were totally shut down from having input. It wan't the Party Leaders. If you recall, President Obama said he would not negotiate with them and refused to come to the table to discuss alternative plans. It is President Obama's way or no way. He has a pen and will use it. Our President believes he has all the answers.


I recall that long before Obama stopped trying to negotiate with the GOP, they had announced that they were going to see to it that he wouldn't get anything he wanted. I remember Jim DeMint saying they would prevent passage of any healthcare bill; it would "be his Waterloo." I remember Obama attempting to negotiate with the GOP about other issues and being totally ignored, even after he offered them what they said they wanted. I remember the GOP being asked time and time again what healthcare plan they would draft and them having nothing to say.

So after this, would anyone sane continue to try to work with them? Had they been less intransigent, they would have had input, but they refused to accept its very existence (as evidenced by the fact that after it was passed, they tried about 45 times to overturn it). It's not negotiating if the other party just says No.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

GJZ- Brevity is the soul of wit. And your post encapsulates the question beautifully.



gjz said:


> This quote is referencing Cheeky Blighter. I tend to agree.
> Most people who can't answer a question based upon facts tend to attack and begun to name call. It is sad.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Oh that would be delightful but I am spending time with my sissy who is near her end


So sorry to hear that. It's good you'll have some time with her. How long has she been sick?

Have a safe flight, and don't forget to take your Ruxton; it would cheer anybody up.


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## SometimesaKnitter (Sep 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Get a life a go play with the rest of your buddies. RU knows the way. All you are good for is crapping all over other people's threads and then leaving your poop for others to shovel up after you, so yes you are all extremely rude and nasty.


Oh Cheeks!!!! You are rich. You are really one of the rudest nastiest posters on this site! And you should really teach a course on crapping on someone else's thread. You do that pretty good too!!!


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Tamarque- Everyone acknowledges that ocare is a copy of Romney's plan for Mass.. The big difference is that Romney's was a state plan and o's is a federal plan. Romney's is a success and the federal one is a failure before it has left the gate. I will refrain from additional comment.



tamarque said:


> I am torn between laughing and screaming at these conversations. No one bothers to note the ACA was modeled on Mitt Romney's State plan in Massachussetts. So when the Repugs carry on with their hysteria and attacks, it is laughable.
> 
> Next that makes me want to scream is the core value system that so many express. We all pay taxes and we all benefit from contributing. Years ago I needed to get Social Service help. I was in a position where I had to tell a snotty case worker that every time I bought toilet paper my tax dollars went to pay her salary. If she was a sole earner in her family, she was only a couple of pay checks away from my side of the desk. I can't believe the cruel judgements that some people make--especially over situations that they clearly have no real knowledge.
> 
> ...


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> GJZ- Brevity is the soul of wit. And your post encapsulates the question beautifully.


I have answered everything honestly. All most of your friends have done is their usual trash and leave. It is you who are not being honest.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I am a big proponent of alternative medicines. Have always wondered why someone didn't create an insurance plan which would cover these forms of healing.



tamarque said:


> I am torn between laughing and screaming at these conversations. No one bothers to note the ACA was modeled on Mitt Romney's State plan in Massachussetts. So when the Repugs carry on with their hysteria and attacks, it is laughable.
> 
> Next that makes me want to scream is the core value system that so many express. We all pay taxes and we all benefit from contributing. Years ago I needed to get Social Service help. I was in a position where I had to tell a snotty case worker that every time I bought toilet paper my tax dollars went to pay her salary. If she was a sole earner in her family, she was only a couple of pay checks away from my side of the desk. I can't believe the cruel judgements that some people make--especially over situations that they clearly have no real knowledge.
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> KFN- You are so wise. What you say is too threatening for the typical American's belief system.
> 
> And those in DC need to be told they work for us. WE pay their salaries. (Although their salaries could not be their major source of income). Wouldn't it be refreshing to have non politicians in DC for a decade or so to clean up the mess? Have you ever run for public office? Why not consider it?


Perhaps if KFN can get herself together and quit trying to shout everyone down people will listen to her. I told her she was scaring people away with her "style". She has some good points but she is so loud she turns me off. Her answer was that's who she is or something similar so in other words she doesn't give a damn and it's her way or the highway. Nice, I think not. She could never be in public office. Maybe the town cryer as she has a good pair of lungs. She is the loudest person I can ever recall on the internet.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> PP- Didn't he write about that in his book? I remember reading it there.


I've never read his books. If you send me an actual quotation, I'll accept it, but when I looked it up, weed got a lot of mention, but not crack.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Tamarque- Everyone acknowledges that ocare is a copy of Romney's plan for Mass.. The big difference is that Romney's was a state plan and o's is a federal plan. Romney's is a success and the federal one is a failure before it has left the gate. I will refrain from additional comment.


What you are saying makes no sense. If ACA is the same as Romney's plan why is one a success and the other a failure? The state vs federal scope difference?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> That is because we all think a like we even dress a like and we talk a like. Yes we do get along better than some others But then when we set our minds to it we can agree with each other it is called acting like a grown up. Thats why I am an Independant.
> You and the group may want to try it. Beats name callling any day.


When I was in high school, some of us dressed alike and talked alike (I have no idea how other people think, and neither do you). We all outgrew that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've never read his books. If you send me an actual quotation, I'll accept it, but when I looked it up, weed got a lot of mention, but not crack.


Hi Purl good to see you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."


That's nuts.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Hi Purl good to see you.


Hey, Cheeky, can you see through those heart-shaped glasses?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Hey, Cheeky, can you see through those heart-shaped glasses?


I thought I could Purl but some of my detractors disagree. They think they taint my perspective, whatever that means?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

SometimesaKnitter said:


> Oh Cheeks!!!! You are rich. You are really one of the rudest nastiest posters on this site! And you should really teach a course on crapping on someone else's thread. You do that pretty good too!!!


My name is not Cheeks so do not call me that. I have never said I cannot be nasty. Yes, I can. I am not proud of it either. You are guilty of it as well and you just showed it by this post and other posts you have made earlier. Two wrongs don't make a right so I will make an effort to correct that. I read some of your previous posts tonight and I do agree with more of what you propose than what I disagree with. I would like to declare a truce and start over in good faith. Are you willing to do that and not "shout"? Please let me know what you decide.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Good man Cheeky for extended your hand in good faith. Doesn't pay to sink to the level of some of the sanctimonious meanies here. You are much better than that.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I say carry a big stick. I'm with you Cheeky.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> Are you threatening me with harm Yarnlady? Please do not call me Cheeks. My name is Cheeky or Cheeky Blighter. Do want to explain what your little riddle means or are you just having some harmless fun. Yes, the political left is correct so we agree on that. I will be looking for your answer tomorrow. Thank's and good night.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The difference is Cheeky would say she's wrong and apologize.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> I know who you are talking about and she is my friend too. I misunderstood why she posted as she did and it's all good between us. You may read things and not understand either and then see later you were wrong.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put, Purl.

-


Poor Purl said:


> I recall that long before Obama stopped trying to negotiate with the GOP, they had announced that they were going to see to it that he wouldn't get anything he wanted. I remember Jim DeMint saying they would prevent passage of any healthcare bill; it would "be his Waterloo." I remember Obama attempting to negotiate with the GOP about other issues and being totally ignored, even after he offered them what they said they wanted. I remember the GOP being asked time and time again what healthcare plan they would draft and them having nothing to say.
> 
> So after this, would anyone sane continue to try to work with them? Had they been less intransigent, they would have had input, but they refused to accept its very existence (as evidenced by the fact that after it was passed, they tried about 45 times to overturn it). It's not negotiating if the other party just says No.


----------



## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

The president himself said this would redistribute the wealth. However, into whose pockets? My answer would be our government.

Most likely, it will have to be propped up with other programs for most, just like Social Security is not a stand alone source of retirement income.
The majority of people don't like it. Me included. I am retired and am doing my best to stay away from hospitals, doctors and western modern medicine. Read "Dead Doctors Don't Lie" and see what you think. Some surgeries are necessary, and even some medication under special circumstances is necessary, but the bulk of "doctoring" is not only unnecessary, but life threatening. Unless you're allergic to an herb, like I am to Chamomille, or want to OD on vitamins, alternative medicine is not harmful. Sure, you have to take responsibility for your own health. And yes, it is wise to consult educated people in health food stores for answers and read up on how to live a healthy lifestyle, but it can be done! 
Pharmaceutical synthetic drugs can kill people or cause dangerous side effects and unless vitamins are mixed with drugs which may cause an interaction, vitamins are good for you. It's the drugs that need to go (IMHO).

I am 71 years old, and I plan somewhere in the very distant future to die in my own bed surrounded by my family, and not in a hospital where they are trying to get rid of me as quickly as possible to save money. Also don't forget at a certain age if you have a life threatening chronic ailment, the death panels will determine whether you should get further care. Not your family doctor. Who needs that? I will determine whether I want to live or die, not them. It's still a marginally free country!!

Sorry I'm so late posting this. I've been away from my computer for a few days and out of communication generally.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I have answered everything honestly. All most of your friends have done is their usual trash and leave. It is you who are not being honest.


    Sad but true.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

??Because there is no guarantee of effectiveness or strength and purity?? It's not for me, but try it if you like.



RUKnitting said:


> I am a big proponent of alternative medicines. Have always wondered why someone didn't create an insurance plan which would cover these forms of healing.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't sound nasty to me. Sounds like offered truce.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> My name is not Cheeks so do not call me that. I have never said I cannot be nasty. Yes, I can. I am not proud of it either. You are guilty of it as well and you just showed it by this post and other posts you have made earlier. Two wrongs don't make a right so I will make an effort to correct that. I read some of your previous posts tonight and I do agree with more of what you propose than what I disagree with. I would like to declare a truce and start over in good faith. Are you willing to do that and not "shout"? Please let me know what you decide.


----------



## seemyart (May 31, 2013)

hey, no politics, please!!!!!


----------



## kammyv4 (Aug 6, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Obamacare has absolutely nothing to do with those of us who have health insurance through our employers.
> I am sorry that your employer was not able to negotiate a better rate, and your friends, too.
> My monthly premium went up $5. per month and now I have lab work done without a charge and no fee for mammograms. It's a wash, I would say.


I work for a doctors office, I am not just talking about my insurance. I now see people coming in with $10,000 deductibles that had $500 deductibles before, or $50 copay's that had none. I am not just talking a few people either, but many. A wash?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Respectfully, I don't believe you. This sounds like an exaggeration. $500 is extremely low; $10,000 is extremely high. Numbers just to make a 'point?'



kammyv4 said:


> I work for a doctors office, I am not just talking about my insurance. I now see people coming in with $10,000 deductibles that had $500 deductibles before, or $50 copay's that had none. I am not just talking a few people either, but many. A wash?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Cheeks be careful of what you say your words may come back to haunt you as the saying goes.
> 
> What you think of as left just maybe Right.


We are not stupid, you know.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Respectfully, I don't believe you. This sounds like an exaggeration. $500 is extremely low; $10,000 is extremely high. Numbers just to make a 'point?'


The fact is that the deductible is not the old fashioned deductible that we used to have to pay off prior to getting insurance coverage. I am not sure how it works to be honest, not my worry, and I just haven't been moved to check it out. 
So much of the preventative care costs have no out of pocket expense I am not sure how it works. 
As far as the $50. copay goes, why would anyone choose a plan with that included?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wasn't aware that 'deductible' is not 'deductible' anymore. Where is $50 copay mentioned? Odd.



Janet Cooke said:


> The fact is that the deductible is not the old fashioned deductible that we used to have to pay off prior to getting insurance coverage. I am not sure how it works to be honest, not my worry, and I just haven't been moved to check it out.
> So much of the preventative care costs have no out of pocket expense I am not sure how it works.
> As far as the $50. copay goes, why would anyone choose a plan with that included?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wasn't aware that 'deductible' is not 'deductible' anymore. Where is $50 copay mentioned? Odd.


I think of the old days when we had to pay a $200. deductible before insurance would cover anything. 
I know mine doesn't work that way anymore. I pay a piece of this charge and a piece of that charge until my$250. deductible is paid.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Whatever floats your boat Thumper. I know what you claim but you have claimed a lot of things before and you would have to be well over 100 by now to have done all the things you claim to be an expert on. All I know is that in MN things worked out just fine for people in these circumstances and they were cared for and we both agree that it is the insurance company holding up payments, pending or not, if payments were due not ACA. She was the one complaining about the doctors struggling because they hadn't been paid. Remember? You never got back to me on how those "friends" of your's are doing. Did they miss the cutoff or are they living out in their car because of Obamacare? That darn plan just wreaks havoc with you doesn't it? It's funny how great it is working for the rest of us. PreferredOne already paid my claims and we are less than two months into the new healthcare so I'm doing my happy dance. :thumbup:


I have never claimed to be expert in anything other than medical business office revenue cycle and EMR configuration. That would include insurance coverages. That's because it's my job and I've been in the field for over 30 years. If you recall any claims made by me in addition to that then you are confusing me with another KP'er. Knowing you and how you operate, I would venture to guess that you are attempting to cast aspersions on that which I say.

I'm glad that P1 has paid your claims. I was addressing the situation that the woman from Florida brought up. I know Florida medical office practices as I was revenue cycle contractor for one of their large medical systems during their conversion.

I'm glad that things worked out for you. There are multiple disaster stories for each success story all over the nation. Also, if you truly believe that things worked out "just fine" in Minnesota you haven't been paying attention to the news. Based on MSM reports your experience is more the exception than the reality.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Morning to you all. My my when do you sleep. But here I am at 6am to find out what everyone's up to
Thank you all for prayers and good will for my sissy!
I think I'll take her some fresh baked items like English shortbread and oatmeal raisen cookies


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

damemary said:


> Wasn't aware that 'deductible' is not 'deductible' anymore. Where is $50 copay mentioned? Odd.


There is a deductible, coinsurance, and copay. So, for example, if you went to the doctor and had a wart removed you could have a copay for the visit, have the procedure for the wart removal applied to your deductible, and have a coinsurance applied to the biopsy charge. These things all depend on what your contract outlines. That's why the material regarding your contract that you receive in the mail are big as books.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Wasn't aware that 'deductible' is not 'deductible' anymore. Where is $50 copay mentioned? Odd.


I have had co-pays as high as $45.00, for an opthamologist. 
Tier one through tier three. 
I am still not totally clear on how that is determined. I just think I have it figured out and something comes along to confuse me. <shrug>


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

kammyv4 said:


> I work for a doctors office, I am not just talking about my insurance. I now see people coming in with $10,000 deductibles that had $500 deductibles before, or $50 copay's that had none. I am not just talking a few people either, but many. A wash?


It very well could be as you are giving us information that is one small piece of a full story.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma wrote:
Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."



Poor Purl said:


> That's nuts.


So apparently, Bill Ayers is terrible, a domestic terrorist, consort to Commies everywhere, and yet we should believe what he supposedly said about writing President Obama's book. 
How sensible is that?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have had co-pays as high as $45.00, for an opthamologist.
> Tier one through tier three.
> I am still not totally clear on how that is determined. I just think I have it figured out and something comes along to confuse me. <shrug>


Some coverages apply higher copays to specialists. The different tiers were created to try and make people stay within their demographic area. It's a cost control measure. Reimbursement contracts differ based on zip code (which is tied to income) and clinic/hospital system. Even Medicare reimburses higher in a rural area than in a large city. I can't say that it's right but that's the reality we have to deal with.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> It very well could be as you are giving us information that is one small piece of a full story.


As is the story that ACA is working for Cheeks.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Are you threatening me with harm Yarnlady? Please do not call me Cheeks. My name is Cheeky or Cheeky Blighter. Do want to explain what your little riddle means or are you just having some harmless fun. Yes, the political left is correct so we agree on that. I will be looking for your answer tomorrow. Thank's and good night.


How is it that you think I am threatening you with harm?

It's not a riddle it has been said many times in this world.

When someone thinks that others do not understand what you mean, then you turn around and do the same thing. It means just that.

Be careful of what you may say as you may be doing the samething, or you may think your words are not understood and someone may understand your words more than you think. 
If you think you have fooled someone, they may have seen what you are really saying.

I do not consider that as meaning anything other than what it means.

I see no threat in what I have said.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Don't be fooled into thinking that o-care doesn't affect employer provided plans. We had the best insurance plan ever. We paid a co pay of $15 to see our regular doctor, a $25 co pay to see a specialist and a $100 co pay for hospitalization. All tests and lab work were covered 100%. When the president announced that employers would be taxed for providing what he called "Cadillac plans", my husband's employer dropped that plan and went with one that was approved by o-care. We now have no co pays. We have a health savings account, in which we put pre tax dollars (our money) and another account that the employer puts a little. We have to pay 100% of our bills up to a $3500 deductible, after which insurance pays 80%, we pay 20%. I'm a cancer survivor. I have to go to the doctor a lot. I have to have tests. O-care has done nothing but hurt us! Oh, I forgot to mention, the premiums for the new plan are higher. If my cancer comes back, we are totally screwed! Thank you mr president, for taking care of us!!!


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

damemary said:


> Respectfully, I don't believe you. This sounds like an exaggeration. $500 is extremely low; $10,000 is extremely high. Numbers just to make a 'point?'


My deductible "use to be " $500. They did exist.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."
> 
> So apparently, Bill Ayers is terrible, a domestic terrorist, consort to Commies everywhere, and yet we should believe what he supposedly said about writing President Obama's book.
> How sensible is that?


Bill Ayers IS a communist. He IS a domestic terrorist, and he DID write "Dreams of my Father". Research it!


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> When I was in high school, some of us dressed alike and talked alike (I have no idea how other people think, and neither do you). We all outgrew that.


None of us have we still do it no matter how old we get.

The left feel that they are right and become a group, The right thinks they are right and become a group.

So one never out grows that.

We are not all right and we are not all wrong.

Some think that they are Left when they may be actual using the right in what they are saying.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Bill Ayers IS a communist. He IS a domestic terrorist, and he DID write "Dreams of my Father". Research it!


Thanks for letting me know which websites you spend your time on. 
No thanks, though, I will not be researching that bit of stale "news".


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> We are not stupid, you know.


Never said you were stupid. But you do like to play games, like changing names ect.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for letting me know which websites you spend your time on.
> No thanks, though, I will not be researching that bit of stale "news".


When I research, I don't pick and choose sites. I go where the information leads me. I follow links. I google. I don't believe what anybody "says" without facts and data to back it up. I spend hours doing exhaustive searches. If you only go on liberal sites or only conservative sites, you won't get the big picture. You will only get a peice of the puzzle.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

giz is correct; it is well-documented how many bills the right has introduced, and Harry Reid, the gatekeeper of the Senate, says that they are DOA. He doesn't read them, he doesn't bring them to the floor.

That kind of partanship subverts our democratic (small 'd') process

The media says they have suggested nothing - Republicans have suggested being able to shop for health insurance across state lines, which would be a great marketplace-based solution to getting prices more competitive. Did the left consider this while writing the ACA? NO, they hid behind closed doors and refused to let any Rs to work on it.

Who has forgotten Nancy Pelosi standing up, waving her arms and saying "You have to pass it before you see what is in it", and now we know - story after story about families being unable to afford the $12,000 deductibles, people on medication and treatment who are losing their doctors and their plan of care, even juicy little tidbits buried somewhere in that huge bill that when you sell your house, you need to remit a certain portion of your profit to them.

Republicans are representing their constituents when they vote, and we were told to sit down and shut up many times. If you watch another news station, other than the mainstream media stations, you'll see the polling numbers that bear this out. You'll see doctors talking about how this plan has changed medicine and how they administer to their patients, and some doctors who are leaving medicine forever. They are getting reimbursed at a much lower rate than ever before, even after the medicare-based negotiated price has paid them. Why should they take the risk of bankruptcy - running an office, paying salaries, buying malpractice insurance, long hours away from their families - when their pay has been cut? Bet you have not watched a TV news program that told you all that.

Before you criticize the Republicans for not doing anything, try to be impartial about what is happening. You will need to switch TV channels and go to different websites to see the truth as it is happening to average Americans.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

I understood that we do have administration, Janet Cooke.

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-1-1.html


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## Annemarie1024 (Sep 4, 2012)

I have no knowlege of insurance companies or the real business end of the medical industry. However I worked for several years for a small acctng office and DH is a CPA for a small firm.

My Dr's practice has been sold to the local hospital. In the process of that the price of my office visits have doubled, the ACA mandated 'automated' prescriptions can't seem to get those straightened out. 

My SIL an OB nurse for many years at the local hospital was laid off with 40 others. My BIL sold his practice and retired to the hospital along with several Dr's. 

This whole thing may be working out fine for you folk in the big cities but for those of us in rural areas it is a disaster.

And by the the there are some folk on this topic who deal in snark right Cheeky


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Annemarie1024 said:


> I have no knowlege of insurance companies or the real business end of the medical industry. However I worked for several years for a small acctng office and DH is a CPA for a small firm.
> 
> My Dr's practice has been sold to the local hospital. In the process of that the price of my office visits have doubled, the ACA mandated 'automated' prescriptions can't seem to get those straightened out.
> 
> ...


Could you define an automated prescription? I have no idea what that is meant to be, I haven't heard that term or have missed that term.

I always love it when people complain about snark with snark of their own, don't you?
Doctors have been closing private practices and going to work for hospitals and HMOs for decades.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking that o-care doesn't affect employer provided plans. We had the best insurance plan ever. We paid a co pay of $15 to see our regular doctor, a $25 co pay to see a specialist and a $100 co pay for hospitalization. All tests and lab work were covered 100%. When the president announced that employers would be taxed for providing what he called "Cadillac plans", my husband's employer dropped that plan and went with one that was approved by o-care. We now have no co pays. We have a health savings account, in which we put pre tax dollars (our money) and another account that the employer puts a little. We have to pay 100% of our bills up to a $3500 deductible, after which insurance pays 80%, we pay 20%. I'm a cancer survivor. I have to go to the doctor a lot. I have to have tests. O-care has done nothing but hurt us! Oh, I forgot to mention, the premiums for the new plan are higher. If my cancer comes back, we are totally screwed! Thank you mr president, for taking care of us!!!


Why is this not the fault of the employer?


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Could you define an automated prescription? I have no idea what that is meant to be, I haven't heard that term or have missed that term.
> 
> I always love it when people complain about snark with snark of their own, don't you?
> Doctors have been closing private practices and going to work for hospitals and HMOs for decades.


Automated prescriptions are scripts for a patient that are transmitted to the pharmacy automatically as soon as the doctor signs his/her orders that have been entered into that patient's medical record.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> I am a big proponent of alternative medicines. Have always wondered why someone didn't create an insurance plan which would cover these forms of healing.


How about because there's been no reliable research done on their effectiveness?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Is pharmaceutical research reliable?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> "I remember Obama attempting to negotiate with the GOP about other issues and being totally ignored, even after he offered them what they said they wanted." What did he offer the GOP that they said they wanted?


Almost everything. I have too much to do today, so no time to look it up. If you remind me on Wed. or Thurs., I'll do so - or you could look it up yourself.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joey sense. Not common but pervasive in some areas.



Janet Cooke said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."
> 
> So apparently, Bill Ayers is terrible, a domestic terrorist, consort to Commies everywhere, and yet we should believe what he supposedly said about writing President Obama's book.
> How sensible is that?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Twisted sister answer.



theyarnlady said:


> How is it that you think I am threatening you with harm?
> 
> It's not a riddle it has been said many times in this world.
> 
> ...


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Thanks for letting me know which websites you spend your time on.
> No thanks, though, I will not be researching that bit of stale "news".


"Stale News" ??? Now I know why you don't know that socialism does not work . You are not thinking that "HISTORY" is a great teacher


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> ??Because there is no guarantee of effectiveness or strength and purity?? It's not for me, but try it if you like.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Especially since I said the same thing much later than you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Automated prescriptions are scripts for a patient that are transmitted to the pharmacy automatically as soon as the doctor signs his/her orders that have been entered into that patient's medical record.


Thanks.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I thought I could Purl but some of my detractors disagree. They think they taint my perspective, whatever that means?


You see everything through the rosy glow of love. That's scary to them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> "Stale News" ??? Now I know why you don't know that socialism does not work . You are not thinking that "HISTORY" is a great teacher


Where have you seen socialism instituted?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Your link is a blog, joey. That means they say anything to get readers and fact check nothing. At least that's what they can do. To most people that is not legitimate. FYI



joeysomma said:


> _He confesses that he wrote Barack Obama's best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father_
> 
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/
> 
> ...


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Where have you seen socialism instituted?


What do you call a National Health Care system? We are on our way as we speak.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."
> 
> So apparently, Bill Ayers is terrible, a domestic terrorist, consort to Commies everywhere, and yet we should believe what he supposedly said about writing President Obama's book.
> How sensible is that?


It make sense if you're a cherry-picker. There's a fascinating piece on this from the Daily Telegraph, http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/

A couple of paragraphs:

The Marxist Bill Ayers is a good capitalist  he knows what sells. The blurb for his new book, Public Enemy: Confessions of an American Dissident, comes with this interesting tease:

"Ayers reveals how he has navigated the challenges and triumphs of this public life with steadfastness and a dash of good humorfrom the red carpet at the Oscars, to prison vigils and airports (where he is often detained and where he finally "confesses" that he did write Dreams from My Father)."

What?! He confesses that he wrote Barack Obama's best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father? Making Obama not just a bad president but a fraud, too? It was too much to disbelieve for some on the Right, with Investors.com walking into the trap and Rush Limbaugh following behind, both headlining that Ayers had exposed himself as the original author.

*In fact, if you bothered to read the book (and I can understand the reluctance) Ayers is satirising the Right's desire to see fault in literally everything Obama does.*

So much for that "fact."


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> None of us have we still do it no matter how old we get.
> 
> The left feel that they are right and become a group, The right thinks they are right and become a group.
> 
> ...


What a smart thing to say, Yarnie. I have to give you a :thumbup: for it.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> What do you call a National Health Care system? We are on our way as we speak.


To quote Speaker of the House John Boehner "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?'

How is having a health care system, most of which are not fully governmental, most people have to purchase supplemental insurance, having a socialized government?

I sure do hope that we are on our way.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> "Stale News" ??? Now I know why you don't know that socialism does not work . You are not thinking that "HISTORY" is a great teacher


Just a bit of an addendum, if I may, we all make these mistakes it is not (see, I just did it)a major criticism. If you are going to quote someone it should be as they said it. I had news in quotes "news", as in a tall tale and not legitimate. 
That stale was not included, it is an old story relatively speaking.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _He confesses that he wrote Barack Obama's best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father_
> 
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/
> 
> ...


Did you read that entire article? You couldn't have, because you missed it when the author calls what Ayers said (on the cover, not in the book itself) a satire.

See my message a bit above this one.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Did you read that entire article? You couldn't have, because you missed it when the author calls what Ayers said (on the cover, not in the book itself) a satire.
> 
> See my message a bit above this one.


Typical.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Your link is a blog, joey. That means they say anything to get readers and fact check nothing. At least that's what they can do. To most people that is not legitimate. FYI


Besides, the blog she linked to says exactly the opposite of what she thinks. I guess this is what's called a _petard_, and she's "hoist" by it.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Poor Purl. I had to look up hoisted by ones own petard. I like it. Another new lesson for me. Description is Hillarious.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> The president himself said this would redistribute the wealth. However, into whose pockets? My answer would be our government.
> 
> Most likely, it will have to be propped up with other programs for most, just like Social Security is not a stand alone source of retirement income.
> The majority of people don't like it. Me included. I am retired and am doing my best to stay away from hospitals, doctors and western modern medicine. Read "Dead Doctors Don't Lie" and see what you think. Some surgeries are necessary, and even some medication under special circumstances is necessary, but the bulk of "doctoring" is not only unnecessary, but life threatening. Unless you're allergic to an herb, like I am to Chamomille, or want to OD on vitamins, alternative medicine is not harmful. Sure, you have to take responsibility for your own health. And yes, it is wise to consult educated people in health food stores for answers and read up on how to live a healthy lifestyle, but it can be done!
> ...


There are no death panels. It has been proven over and over and over again. I can't believe there are still people who believe that Sarah Palin lie. I just ask that you be careful about relaying that kind of false information as someone may believe you and not go to the Dr because they think they won't be treated.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
Bill Ayers has admitted writing the book "Dreams of my Father."

Joey, you need to read more than just a headline and take it as truth. Read the whole story before you make a statement, because it just makes you look stupid and gullible.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

I wonder what is the thought process for doing that (booting you off) ? Makes no sense.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking that o-care doesn't affect employer provided plans. We had the best insurance plan ever. We paid a co pay of $15 to see our regular doctor, a $25 co pay to see a specialist and a $100 co pay for hospitalization. All tests and lab work were covered 100%. When the president announced that employers would be taxed for providing what he called "Cadillac plans", my husband's employer dropped that plan and went with one that was approved by o-care. We now have no co pays. We have a health savings account, in which we put pre tax dollars (our money) and another account that the employer puts a little. We have to pay 100% of our bills up to a $3500 deductible, after which insurance pays 80%, we pay 20%. I'm a cancer survivor. I have to go to the doctor a lot. I have to have tests. O-care has done nothing but hurt us! Oh, I forgot to mention, the premiums for the new plan are higher. If my cancer comes back, we are totally screwed! Thank you mr president, for taking care of us!!!


I had one of those wonderful plans too at work, totally awesome and then the next year it changed. Only problem was it was in 2002, well before the ACA could be blamed. It was the insurance company raising rates and my employer searched for a cheaper plan and found one. It was a huge difference for the employees.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> There are no death panels. It has been proven over and over and over again. I can't believe there are still people who believe that Sarah Palin lie. I just ask that you be careful about relaying that kind of false information as someone may believe you and not go to the Dr because they think they won't be treated.


They believe because they want to.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I had one of those wonderful plans too at work, totally awesome and then the next year it changed. Only problem was it was in 2002, well before the ACA could be blamed. It was the insurance company raising rates and my employer searched for a cheaper plan and found one. It was a huge difference for the employees.


People who want to forget seem to have lost the fact that the business part of ACA has been delayed for a year.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

babesy said:


> I wonder what is the thought process for doing that (booting you off) ? Makes no sense.


The thought process being if you have enough money to pay out-of-pocket for a medication you have enough money to do without the assistance.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> People who want to forget seem to have lost the fact that the business part of ACA has been delayed for a year.


However, businesses are still in business because they plan for future contingencies. ACA being one of them.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Bill Ayers IS a communist. He IS a domestic terrorist, and he DID write "Dreams of my Father". Research it!


I did research it and he did not write the book. He was trying to get publicity for his book. Rush Limbaugh jumped on this information. That alone should tell you it isn't true. I don't know what you mean by research, but you obviously are lacking in ability. I posted a link on page 84.

Quote: Ayers didn't discourage the myth: he used it to get publicity for his writing.

But anyone with eyes can decide fairly swiftly. The timing between the first meeting of Obama and Ayers and the publication of Dreams was far too small for Ayers to be the author, and their relationship doesn't seem to have evolved into anything serious. They served on a board together and worked on the same community project. Theirs was a small social circle but not an overly friendly one. Explained Ayers, "I was a guy around that neighborhood and so was he, and we would run into each other at the supermarket or the bookstore or the park. Thats the kind of neighborhood it is." Politically, Obama turned out to be far to Ayers' right and Ayers has largely been critical about his presidency.


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

NJG....I hate sweeping statement...and I hate dramatic words like death panels..but u have to realize what is really happening...I mentioned my husbands situation before on this thread....how he is being denied coverage for any tests for a cancer in remission..this is happening to ALOT of people ..this is my truth..when I wrote of it.....dead silence...1 person wished us well...the rest of u ...nothing. You are sooo busy being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong ..wrong..wrong...u could not even address my issue and I said I was sick over it ...I am quite sure u will ignore this also...


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _He confesses that he wrote Barack Obama's best-selling memoir Dreams from My Father_
> 
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/
> 
> ...


You can't just read the headline, read all of it and it will tell you he made that statement as publicity to sell his book. Read the whole article and don't post things before you do.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So if your Doctor tells you, you need an expensive prescription to live. Then your insurance denies coverage of that prescription, and the cost is $500 a month and you have no money. I would call it a death panel. If you say Medicaid will pay for it, you are WRONG. If Medicaid decides they will not pay for a drug, and you decide to pay for it yourself, you can (probably will) loose Medicaid.


With this reasoning about prescription drugs, many health insurance companies have had "death panels" long before the ACA came along. You find out about health insurance when you have a life-threatening illness. You find out what they consider "experimental" and what is not. You find out that they try to deny claims that under the law, they are not supposed to deny. You find out that some of the best drugs may not be on the formulary. I guess some of you have never been terribly ill and have never had to have a fight with a health insurance company----you know, the kind of company that has been providing coverage way before the ACA. I don't understand why there's nobody complaining about their health premiums going up year after year or the crap those companies have tried to foist on us. One would think all healthcare companies before the advent of the ACA were just shining stars!


----------



## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> To quote Speaker of the House John Boehner "ARE YOU KIDDING ME?'
> 
> How is having a health care system, most of which are not fully governmental, most people have to purchase supplemental insurance, having a socialized government?
> 
> I sure do hope that we are on our way.


What is a "single payer system". It seems that most in your camp are hoping for this. Europe seems to be trying to get away from it,while we move toward it.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Your link is a blog, joey. That means they say anything to get readers and fact check nothing. At least that's what they can do. To most people that is not legitimate. FYI


But if you read the whole thing it says Ayers did not write it, he only used that statement as publicity for his own book.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> NJG....I hate sweeping statement...and I hate dramatic words like death panels..but u have to realize what is really happening...I mentioned my husbands situation before on this thread....how he is being denied coverage for any tests for a cancer in remission..this is happening to ALOT of people ..this is my truth..when I wrote of it.....dead silence...1 person wished us well...the rest of u ...nothing. You are sooo busy being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong ..wrong..wrong...u could not even address my issue and I said I was sick over it ...I am quite sure u will ignore this also...


I did not read your previous post, but I sure understand how scary cancer can be, long after you've finished your chemo and are trying to get on with your life. I wish your husband well. I'd like to add that certain tests, treatments, and prescriptions have been denied long before the ACA.


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## Annemarie1024 (Sep 4, 2012)

Automated scripts are as I understand it from both Dr's office and the two or three different pharmacys I use. My choice of pharmacy of the day varies based on cost of script, number, and my location. I can no longer get paper scripts the office is required to fax the scripts to the pharmacy and they go on this automatic refill list. When it first started the pharmacy was calling me from all three with refills I had left hanging some going back over a year. They were filling all these old stale dated scripts and calling me to come pick them up and didn't seem to understand why I didn't need them anymore. Again I am sure that is a rural thing. 

The Dr's closing offices may be an years old thing there but it is new here. Between the four towns with hospitals within fifty miles independent physicans offices have gone down 50 percent in the last year. Normal do you really think? 

I think the nearest HMO is probably Indianapolis. When I moved from there in 89 the HMO's were running patients clear across town for different services. I notice you did not address the staff cuts. The only in county hospital that's for 30,000 folk (in county) and 370 sq miles. Ok so 50 at the local DS and cousin says 300 at Columbus regional 40 next county over. 

AHC has taken an already substandard rural healthcare system and beaten it into the ground.

Yeah Cheeky bullies just bring out the worst in me. Always have since 4th grade.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So if your Doctor tells you, you need an expensive prescription to live. Then your insurance denies coverage of that prescription, and the cost is $500 a month and you have no money. I would call it a death panel. If you say Medicaid will pay for it, you are WRONG. If Medicaid decides they will not pay for a drug, and you decide to pay for it yourself, you can (probably will) loose Medicaid.


And are you saying this didn't happen before the ACA? What a silly statement. This very thing has been going on for years. Insurance companies always pick and choose what they will pay for. Only thing is, before the ACA, I'll bet you didn't call them death panels.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I never said it wasn't satire. The website I gave said it was. Did you read the website? Doubt it. Since you repeated the website I listed.


No, you believed it without reading the entire thing. Yes I read it and replied back that you need to read it all, not just the title and get all excited that you had some new astounding info. You posted it as the truth, so no backtracking now that you have been proven wrong.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> However, businesses are still in business because they plan for future contingencies. ACA being one of them.


Do you have some data to back that up? The information that I see says that medical costs are increasing by less now than in past years. 
It stands to reason that if that is the case businesses would have been, and they have, doing the ol' switcheroo for years and decades past. 
Anyone who is honest about it, will admit that there have been adjustments to insurance coverage for as far back as the 1980s and probably beyond.


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

No dear ...not these tests which were standard care practices...the doctors at memorial Sloan Kettering are really upset about the new changes..I really love all u ladies and your spirited decourse but being deep in the trenches now is scary..please believe me..


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Annemarie1024 said:


> Automated scripts are as I understand it from both Dr's office and the two or three different pharmacys I use. My choice of pharmacy of the day varies based on cost of script, number, and my location. I can no longer get paper scripts the office is required to fax the scripts to the pharmacy and they go on this automatic refill list. When it first started the pharmacy was calling me from all three with refills I had left hanging some going back over a year. They were filling all these old stale dated scripts and calling me to come pick them up and didn't seem to understand why I didn't need them anymore. Again I am sure that is a rural thing.
> 
> The Dr's closing offices may be an years old thing there but it is new here. Between the four towns with hospitals within fifty miles independent physicans offices have gone down 50 percent in the last year. Normal do you really think?
> 
> ...


Your use of jargon is a turn off, your insistence on using the user name Cheeky is as well. 
There are pros and cons to every living space. I guess if one chooses to live rural the pros must outweigh the cons.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Bill Ayers IS a communist. He IS a domestic terrorist, and he DID write "Dreams of my Father". Research it!


I did. He didn't.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is pharmaceutical research reliable?


Sometimes, but probably not if left to the pharm company itself. I know someone who has done testing of drugs. She says that when she's hired by the manufacturer (which then owns her report), the results are sometimes not released.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Sometimes, but probably not if left to the pharm company itself. I know someone who has done testing of drugs. She says that when she's hired by the manufacturer (which then owns her report), the results are sometimes not released.


Isn't the quest for profits just so wonderful?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> No dear ...not these tests which were standard care practices...the doctors at memorial Sloan Kettering are really upset about the new changes..I really love all u ladies and your spirited decourse but being deep in the trenches now is scary..please believe me..


I'm sure it's very scary, and I hope you have the energy to challenge your health care provider. I have done it in the past and have "won." Often health insurers count on the insured not having the strength to carry out a challenge, but it can be done. I think my anger provided my ability to carry it out.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Poor Purl. I had to look up hoisted by ones own petard. I like it. Another new lesson for me. Description is Hillarious.


Is that a pun on Hillary, or just a misspelling? Where did you look it up? Sounds like fun.


----------



## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> NJG....I hate sweeping statement...and I hate dramatic words like death panels..but u have to realize what is really happening...I mentioned my husbands situation before on this thread....how he is being denied coverage for any tests for a cancer in remission..this is happening to ALOT of people ..this is my truth..when I wrote of it.....dead silence...1 person wished us well...the rest of u ...nothing. You are sooo busy being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong ..wrong..wrong...u could not even address my issue and I said I was sick over it ...I am quite sure u will ignore this also...


I am sorry you are having this experience, but many people have had similar things happen and before the ACA. The only one that comes to mind right now is my daughter was having problems with her knee and when she turned her leg a certain way, her leg went numb. The test the Dr ordered, the insurance company would not pay for. This was before the ACA and it certainly wasn't life threatening as your husband's situation is. I hope you husbands Dr. keeps on the insurance company to try and get the test done. I don't think the insurance company should be able to go against what a Dr orders. I wish I had a better answer for you, but insurance companies still have a lot of power.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So if your Doctor tells you, you need an expensive prescription to live. Then your insurance denies coverage of that prescription, and the cost is $500 a month and you have no money. I would call it a death panel. If you say Medicaid will pay for it, you are WRONG. If Medicaid decides they will not pay for a drug, and you decide to pay for it yourself, you can (probably will) loose Medicaid.


And if and if and if and if...

And if the insurance company denies payment, then the insurance company is responsible, not the govt. Ins. companies have had death panels all these years up to now. You pay your premiums for 10 years, you contract a rare disease that will be terminal if untreated, your ins. co. refuses payment and drops you. Voila, death panel. This scenario has happened many times before Obamacare.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Isn't the quest for profits just so wonderful?


What do you live on? Wishes and rainbows?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I never said it wasn't satire. The website I gave said it was. Did you read the website? Doubt it. Since you repeated the website I listed.


Wait a minute. You gave that website as proof that Ayers wrote Obama's book. That website says he didn't, that his admission was satire. So how does it prove your point? Oh, this must be one of your logic slips again.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I'm sure it's very scary, and I hope you have the energy to challenge your health care provider. I have done it in the past and have "won." Often health insurers count on the insured not having the strength to carry out a challenge, but it can be done. I think my anger provided my ability to carry it out.


Good for you! It absolutely can (and should on many occasions) be done.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

NJG said:


> There are no death panels. It has been proven over and over and over again. I can't believe there are still people who believe that Sarah Palin lie. I just ask that you be careful about relaying that kind of false information as someone may believe you and not go to the Dr because they think they won't be treated.


You sound like Jean-Luc Picard. "Make It So". You may be another magical thinker, because a rose by any other name is still a rose. You can say a board appointed to monitor older people year by year to ascertain whether they should continue to be treated, or merely kept comfortable is not a death panel, because you think that is too harsh, but maybe not to those who will have to put up with that. Did you read the BILL??

Besides, I think the KP is being high-jacked by a few plants. You, Cheeky Blighter, and DameMary. 
I stand by my words. I believe in alternative medicine, and would not put my life in the hands of a bunch of cold, calculating money-driven people.
It works. I went from really bad health to excellent health, and so did my DH. I now have convinced family and friends. You have to help yourself.

Of course, we will be having triage and nurse-practioners handling the cases instead of doctors for most things, and that actually makes sense. My favorite alternative care person is a nurse practioner!

Drugs have numerous side effects and ODs are too many to count. Vitamins and herbs don't kill.

The website is a mess, and easily hacked for all your personal information.


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## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Isn't the quest for profits just so wonderful?


Of course, if a drug dies, and many many many do, there is no reason to release research . If a drug gets to the stage of human trials, of course FDA is responsible for the release. Are you suggesting that FDA, a govn't program, is not reliable? Drugs get nowhere close to a human until FDA says they can.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

That means that if you have a life-threatening diagnosis, and you beg, borrow or steal the money for the meds, you will never again get assistance? Totally wrong. You tried to help yourself.

The problem is the lazy slobs who lie around on the couch day after day, smoking pot and making babies that we have to support - not those who scrambled to be able to afford life-saving treatment/medication.

This country is truly upside-down. The inmates are running the asylum.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Is that a pun on Hillary, or just a misspelling? Where did you look it up? Sounds like fun.


Hillary/Pillory


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

babesy said:


> That means that if you have a life-threatening diagnosis, and you beg, borrow or steal the money for the meds, you will never again get assistance? Totally wrong. You tried to help yourself.
> 
> The problem is the lazy slobs who lie around on the couch day after day, smoking pot and making babies that we have to support - not those who scrambled to be able to afford life-saving treatment/medication.
> 
> This country is truly upside-down. The inmates are running the asylum.


 I don't know about what is upside down, I do know that what is really skewed is such a hate filled view of people.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh, those babies come from under the cabbage patch leaves - my mistake.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

jvoel said:


> Of course, if a drug dies, and many many many do, there is no reason to release research . If a drug gets to the stage of human trials, of course FDA is responsible for the release. Are you suggesting that FDA, a govn't program, is not reliable? Drugs get nowhere close to a human until FDA says they can.


I have no idea what you are referring to or why you are addressing that to me.


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## Annemarie1024 (Sep 4, 2012)

If is jargon I am unaware of it as it it in common use here. Rural living isn't for everyone and for us it is a choice. For many of my neighbors it is not. They are aged, have often done heavy farm work all their lives, and everything the have is here. You all do like to eat right. Where do you think all those canned tomato products come from.
I guess you have no real argument to the main message.

By the way it's lovely here. Five deer are standing out in the pasture raiding the hay and sheep. The rain is making my metal roof ring andfinally melt ing the snow. Don't have that in town.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> NJG....I hate sweeping statement...and I hate dramatic words like death panels..but u have to realize what is really happening...I mentioned my husbands situation before on this thread....how he is being denied coverage for any tests for a cancer in remission..this is happening to ALOT of people ..this is my truth..when I wrote of it.....dead silence...1 person wished us well...the rest of u ...nothing. You are sooo busy being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong ..wrong..wrong...u could not even address my issue and I said I was sick over it ...I am quite sure u will ignore this also...


Llavaia, this is terrible news. It must be frightening not to know for certain whether he's still in remission. Is it an insurance company you're dealing with, or a govt. agency like Medicare or Medicaid? There should be an appeals process. Is your policy under Obamacare or did it exist before? This information may be useful in figuring out what you can do next.

I never saw your original message bc by the time I got on this thread it was over 50 pages long and I couldn't bring myself to read all that. I'm sorry you were ignored; It's not easy to open up about personal issues, and to have nobody read your message - well, I'm especially angered when I'm ignored. Please keep in touch.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jvoel said:


> What is a "single payer system". It seems that most in your camp are hoping for this. Europe seems to be trying to get away from it,while we move toward it.


Medicare is single payer - people who have straight Medicare have their bills paid by a government agency. It's been shown to be far more efficient and cheaper to run than for-profit insurance companies.

The VA system is even more than single payer - it's the closest thing we have to socialized medicine. It happens to be falling apart at the moment, but there's hope that it can be fixed.

We're not even hoping yet for single payer. It would have been good to have what's called a public option - that is, a public agency in competition with the private insurers. But Obama gave up on that because the GOP would not allow it.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

My reply was to Janet Cooke who, on my screen, appeared to have posted just above mine.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

babesy said:


> My reply was to Janet Cooke who, on my screen, appeared to have posted just above mine.


That is my user name, for sure. 
I don't know why you would talk about failed pharmaceutical trials and other big pharma testing in reply to a generalized comment about chasing money. 
If you wish to flesh out your comment I would be happy to do whatever checking I need to do to respond reasonably.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Llavaia, this is terrible news. It must be frightening not to know for certain whether he's still in remission. Is it an insurance company you're dealing with, or a govt. agency like Medicare or Medicaid? There should be an appeals process. Is your policy under Obamacare or did it exist before? This information may be useful in figuring out what you can do next.
> 
> I never saw your original message bc by the time I got on this thread it was over 50 pages long and I couldn't bring myself to read all that. I'm sorry you were ignored; It's not easy to open up about personal issues, and to have nobody read your message - well, I'm especially angered when I'm ignored. Please keep in touch.


The fact is I did respond, asked some questions, my response must have been overlooked.


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## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> I have no idea what you are referring to or why you are addressing that to me.


Did you not criticize pharma for profits and being guilty of not releasing some of their research? if you were not in that thread, I sincerely apologize.
There are so many that do not realize that our wonderful country has to carry the greatest burden of drug development. We could go without profit and development could die. Not a good scene for any of us. Some of the "orphan" drugs come at great cost. Orphan drugs are a form of charitable giving as they are for diseases that are in a very few number of people. Profit is not made on these orphan drugs, but people with these oddball diseases should not be ignored.


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## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

I did not talk about failed pharma trials, etc. I think you are getting messages mixed up.

I responded to my post being criticized as full of hate for people. It is merely stating what happens all too often.

I'm outta here. I agree there are a couple of plants here, and keeping this mess going. We all have better things to do than this, except for those few.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> No dear ...not these tests which were standard care practices...the doctors at memorial Sloan Kettering are really upset about the new changes..I really love all u ladies and your spirited decourse but being deep in the trenches now is scary..please believe me..


Okay, then, another question: is your policy a New York State one? I'm wondering whether you couldn't go to see a doctor elsewhere, like at Johns Hopkins, and be covered. My husband sees a doctor at Mem Sloan Kettering, and he's never been denied anything, but he has Medicare. There must be a patient representative there who can give advice, though if the doctors there haven't gotten anywhere it's going to be tough.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> You sound like Jean-Luc Picard. "Make It So". You may be another magical thinker, because a rose by any other name is still a rose. You can say a board appointed to monitor older people year by year to ascertain whether they should continue to be treated, or merely kept comfortable is not a death panel, because you think that is too harsh, but maybe not to those who will have to put up with that. Did you read the BILL??
> 
> Besides, I think the KP is being high-jacked by a few plants. You, Cheeky Blighter, and DameMary.
> I stand by my words. I believe in alternative medicine, and would not put my life in the hands of a bunch of cold, calculating money-driven people.
> It works. I went from really bad health to excellent health, and so did my DH.


I sure don't mean to hijack anything, just to tell the truth. It has really bothered me that people still believe the death panel lie and pass it on. I worry that some poor soul out there will not seek care because they believe they won't receive it. This was suppose to be counseling about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options, but it has been removed from the ACA, so you don't have to worry about it. I have already made those arrangements and no I didn't talk to a death panel. 
This all started with Sara Palin and republicans have used anything they could to make the ACA fail. Make a statement, truth or not did not matter, and if it is repeated enough, it must be true.

Palin specified that she was referring to Section 1233 of bill HR 3200 which would have paid physicians for providing voluntary counseling to Medicare patients about living wills, advance directives, and end-of-life care options. My Dr already talked to me about this very thing, well before the ACA was started. Was she on a death panel?

Palin's claim was reported as false and criticized by mainstream news media, fact-checkers, academics, physicians, Democrats, and some Republicans. Due to public concern, the provision to pay physicians for providing voluntary counseling was removed from the Senate bill and was not included in the law that was enacted, the 2010 Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

For 2009, "death panel" was named as PolitiFact's "Lie of the Year", one of FactCheck's "whoppers", and the most outrageous term by the American Dialect Society.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Isn't the quest for profits just so wonderful?


It's the American way.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> NJG....I hate sweeping statement...and I hate dramatic words like death panels..but u have to realize what is really happening...I mentioned my husbands situation before on this thread....how he is being denied coverage for any tests for a cancer in remission..this is happening to ALOT of people ..this is my truth..when I wrote of it.....dead silence...1 person wished us well...the rest of u ...nothing. You are sooo busy being self righteous and telling other people they are wrong ..wrong..wrong...u could not even address my issue and I said I was sick over it ...I am quite sure u will ignore this also...


I just had another thought. Have you tried to contact your congressman/woman. Sometimes they have some pull and the insurance company may want to avoid some bad publicity. Certainly couldn't hurt.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> What do you live on? Wishes and rainbows?


There are not-for-profit companies.

That baby is absolutely adorable. Yours? Grandchild?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's the American way.


I suppose. :evil: :twisted: :evil: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jvoel said:


> Did you not criticize pharma for profits and being guilty of not releasing some of their research? if you were not in that thread, I sincerely apologize.
> There are so many that do not realize that our wonderful country has to carry the greatest burden of drug development. We could go without profit and development could die. Not a good scene for any of us. Some of the "orphan" drugs come at great cost. Orphan drugs are a form of charitable giving as they are for diseases that are in a very few number of people. Profit is not made on these orphan drugs, but people with these oddball diseases should not be ignored.


I'm the one who brought up drug trials and the manufacturers not releasing results. Let me flesh out what I said. My friend, who has a doctorate in biochemistry, does drug testing as a free-lance. If her results are negative and it's a for-profit company that's hired her, her results get swept under the rug and the company tries other tests in an effort to get FDA approval. The drug isn't necessarily dropped because the testing showed it to be problematic; heck, they may find another use for it.

The govt pays for a good deal of drug d&r, but once successful the company keeps all the profits. The govt has managed in the past to make significant discoveries, but you'd never know it these days, when only the private sector gets the recognition. Even the scientists who come up with the ideas and develop the formulas aren't recognized.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

As I said. I will not be stampeded or brainwashed into planning my own demise before I'm ready. I take a positive attitude and responsibility for my life. The lamestream media will report whatever the party line is. There are plenty of other useful -- out there. I don't mean to insult, but the usual method of discrediting is to use someone else's argument as your own. That is part of the tactics going on in this thread. The line you quoted, "Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it" was originally told by Josef Stalin. It has been repeated by many since then. I don't think Palin thought it was a lie. Did you know that insurance agencies are being paid huge sums to go along with the ACA? Even if they lose money, they are going to be propped up.

Here I had a lot to say, but decided that it's not worth my time. Suffice it to say, the above quote is exactly what is going on in lamestream media. Say it often enough..and YOU believe it! And unilaterally, without running it through Congress and as the Constitution demands, we have had 29 executive order changes to the ACA. Who knows what it is anymore???


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

NJG said:


> I just had another thought. Have you tried to contact your congressman/woman. Sometimes they have some pull and the insurance company may want to avoid some bad publicity. Certainly couldn't hurt.


I am pretty sure that Cheeky recommended that, someone did, I know I didn't think of it.


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## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

I am fighting ...a lot...and so is his oncologist and his surgeon and his radiologist...I have had to fight blue cross blue shield in the past and won..but this is different...They refuse to pay for anymore catscansand other testing...remember when one had cancer and you went for a scan every 3 mo...then 6mo then a year etc ....standard medical practices..now if u are in remission they do not feel you need to keep up with it because if it comes back ur chances of survival are dim ..why pay...I know people who lived many years after a relapse..those years mean the world to me...what is the price tag for a few more years...apparently more than they want to pay...believe me ladies I am not stupid ..this is different and I hope it NEVER happens to u or your loved ones....I can pay for these tests out of pocket which is very expensive and I have no idea how I will pay.. This is my heartache..


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> As I said. I will not be stampeded or brainwashed into planning my own demise before I'm ready. I take a positive attitude and responsibility for my life. The lamestream media will report whatever the party line is. There are plenty of other useful -- out there. I don't mean to insult, but the usual method of discrediting is to use someone else's argument as your own. That is part of the tactics going on in this thread. The line you quoted, "Tell a lie often enough and people will believe it" was originally told by Josef Stalin. It has been repeated by many since then. I don't think Palin thought it was a lie. Did you know that insurance agencies are being paid huge sums to go along with the ACA? Even if they lose money, they are going to be propped up.
> 
> Here I had a lot to say, but decided that it's not worth my time. Suffice it to say, the above quote is exactly what is going on in lamestream media. Say it often enough..and YOU believe it! And unilaterally, without running it through Congress and the Constitution demands, we have had 29 executive order changes to the ACA. Who knows what it is anymore???


If the former Governor Palin, failed VP candidate didn't know it was a lie and had no proof that it was true, what should she have done?

Those changes are not TO the law, they are to the implementation schedule of the law. 
It is the same law it has always been.


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## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Medicare is single payer - people who have straight Medicare have their bills paid by a government agency. It's been shown to be far more efficient and cheaper to run than for-profit insurance companies.
> 
> The VA system is even more than single payer - it's the closest thing we have to socialized medicine. It happens to be falling apart at the moment, but there's hope that it can be fixed.
> 
> We're not even hoping yet for single payer. It would have been good to have what's called a public option - that is, a public agency in competition with the private insurers. But Obama gave up on that because the GOP would not allow it.


Sorry to burst your bubble but Medicare contracts with several different payers to process their claims.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> I am fighting ...a lot...and so is his oncologist and his surgeon and his radiologist...I have had to fight blue cross blue shield in the past and won..but this is different...They refuse to pay for anymore catscansand other testing...remember when one had cancer and you went for a scan every 3 mo...then 6mo then a year etc ....standard medical practices..now if u are in remission they do not feel you need to keep up with it because if it comes back ur chances of survival are dim ..why pay...I know people who lived many years after a relapse..those years mean the world to me...what is the price tag for a few more years...apparently more than they want to pay...believe me ladies I am not stupid ..this is different and I hope it NEVER happens to u or your loved ones....I can pay for these tests out of pocket which is very expensive and I have no idea how I will pay.. This is my heartache..


Are there tests other than CAT scans that will give the information? There have been new articles about too many CAT scans, which carry radiation risks, since they're essentially X-rays. I don't believe for a minute that this is the reason they're being denied, but who knows? MRI's or ultrasound won't help?


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but Medicare contracts with several different payers to process their claims.


Where does that money come from?
Edit: the reason for that is privatization, can't have that huge governmental bureaucracy. It is much better to have our pals make millions administering funds, spying on citizens...


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Is that a pun on Hillary, or just a misspelling? Where did you look it up? Sounds like fun.


Oh no didn't mean to pun but I see it now. Teehee. What would Sigmund say?
Phrases.org.uk


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but Medicare contracts with several different payers to process their claims.


Yes, you're right. But they still don't cost what Blue Cross or Aetna would cost for the same work.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Llavaia said:


> I am fighting ...a lot...and so is his oncologist and his surgeon and his radiologist...I have had to fight blue cross blue shield in the past and won..but this is different...They refuse to pay for anymore catscansand other testing...remember when one had cancer and you went for a scan every 3 mo...then 6mo then a year etc ....standard medical practices..now if u are in remission they do not feel you need to keep up with it because if it comes back ur chances of survival are dim ..why pay...I know people who lived many years after a relapse..those years mean the world to me...what is the price tag for a few more years...apparently more than they want to pay...believe me ladies I am not stupid ..this is different and I hope it NEVER happens to u or your loved ones....I can pay for these tests out of pocket which is very expensive and I have no idea how I will pay.. This is my heartache..


I would go to the media if I had been fighting so long and getting nowhere. 
The law calls for no more spending caps. So what the insurance company says doesn't jibe with what is happening to you.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

thumper5316 said:


> Sorry to burst your bubble but Medicare contracts with several different payers to process their claims.


Unfortunately only one in 5 doctors will now accept Medicare, so who is going to treat YOU?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

ginalola said:


> Oh no didn't mean to pun but I see it now. Teehee. What would Sigmund say?
> Phrases.org.uk


Sigmund would say it's just a cigar, and diagnose you as a hysteric.

I looked it up. I always pictured it as a spear, and someone carrying it being pulled upward as the point stuck in the ground. Boy, was I wrong. Thanks for this.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> Unfortunately only one in 5 doctors will now accept Medicare, so you is going to treat YOU?


source?


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

Paul Hammond, MD


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I don't know about what is upside down, I do know that what is really skewed is such a hate filled view of people.


I wish the haters could all walk a mile in someone elses shoes. I am sure there are people who are working the system, but not everyone is. Before I retired I had a 20 something come in to buy glasses from me. She had been going through cancer treatment, had been unable to work and was on medicaid, so was receiving free glasses. At one point she was in tears, because she felt so bad that she couldn't pay for them herself. She said it was very very hard to use food stamps at the grocery store because she felt people were looking at her and thinking she didn't deserve the help. She was probably right, as I'm sure people were thinking that, but I told her those kind of people don't matter. They always do that without knowing the whole story. They should be thinking there but for the grace of God go I instead of being so critical.


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## cindybar (Mar 8, 2011)

kneonknitter said:


> Now that works for me! My son is a medical marijuana user & we have 'state licensed & certified' dispensaries & then the ones that are not. When the law here was 1st passed, there were 3 'state approved' & dozens of non approved. We didn't know at the time, but, the dispensary he was using was one of the illegal ones & it got raided!! We had been there the day before. That was when he realized what the real deal was. He went on the internet & researched & found an approved one. With the growth of approved dispensaries, there is now one 1/2 mile from our house & they are reasonably priced & treat my son well & with respect. It's good for the country's economy to operate legal businesses, no matter what they are & they also serve to squash the illegal operations. Of course I'm not talking about street corner operations.


Just curious, what is your son's disability?


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## jvoel (Mar 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm the one who brought up drug trials and the manufacturers not releasing results. Let me flesh out what I said. My friend, who has a doctorate in biochemistry, does drug testing as a free-lance. If her results are negative and it's a for-profit company that's hired her, her results get swept under the rug and the company tries other tests in an effort to get FDA approval. The drug isn't necessarily dropped because the testing showed it to be problematic; heck, they may find another use for it.
> 
> The govt pays for a good deal of drug d&r, but once successful the company keeps all the profits. The govt has managed in the past to make significant discoveries, but you'd never know it these days, when only the private sector gets the recognition. Even the scientists who come up with the ideas and develop the formulas aren't recognized.


Drugs take many years to develop. When finally approved they only have a short time to recoup the costs of development before they go generic and other companies are able to profit , without the cost of R and D.

Often there are other uses that are discovered. An example is a cancer drug being used to treat macular degeneration. A miracle for that disease, which used to be a diagnosis for blindness in the very near future.
My husband happens to be one of those scientists as a senior pathologist.H e has never complained about not getting in on the profits or recognition. He has the public good and his love for pathology as a goal in his work.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> If the former Governor Palin, failed VP candidate didn't know it was a lie and had no proof that it was true, what should she have done?
> 
> Those changes are not TO the law, they are to the implementation schedule of the law.
> It is the same law it has always been.


It is not the same law. Groups have been excluded. The law was to be for everyone, yet it no longer is.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

I don't consider myself a hater. Just a pragmatic individual that faces reality. There have always been programs for the poor and there always will be. My mother and I were actually on that at one point in our lives until she could be gainfully employed despite her bad heart.
That has nothing to do with the ACA monstrosity.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I don't consider myself a hater. Just a pragmatic individual that faces reality. There have always been programs for the poor and there always will be. My mother and I were actually on that at one point in our lives until she could be gainfully employed despite her bad heart.
> That has nothing to do with the ACA monstrosity.


I am glad you are not a hater. What I read to many times is if you are receiving food stamps or assistance of any kind, you are automatically considered to be lazy and lacking of education and character. It is "those people" that are all grouped together, without knowing anything about them.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I don't consider myself a hater. Just a pragmatic individual that faces reality. There have always been programs for the poor and there always will be. My mother and I were actually on that at one point in our lives until she could be gainfully employed despite her bad heart.
> That has nothing to do with the ACA monstrosity.


I go by an old saying "if what was said isn't who I am then they are not talking about me". 
If you are not a hater and someone uses that term they are not referring to you.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> source?


Only 1 in 5 doctors accepts Medicare? Where do they get this stuff? From the US Department of Health and Human Services:

According to federal survey data, the percentage of all office-based physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients has not changed significantly between 2005 and 2012, with 87.9% of physicians accepting new Medicare patients in 2005 and 90.7% in 2012.

- The percentage of physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients is similar to, and in recent years slightly higher than, the percentage accepting new privately insured patients.

- Medicare beneficiary access to care is high and has remained stable over the past five years.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

NJG said:


> I had one of those wonderful plans too at work, totally awesome and then the next year it changed. Only problem was it was in 2002, well before the ACA could be blamed. It was the insurance company raising rates and my employer searched for a cheaper plan and found one. It was a huge difference for the employees.


The difference here is that the ACA is making certain options mandatory. This is going to raise the cost of the insurance for businesses. Your company did not have to comply with mandates of this type and was therefore able to find insurance at lower rates.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Only 1 in 5 doctors accepts Medicare? Where do they get this stuff? From the US Department of Health and Human Services:
> 
> According to federal survey data, the percentage of all office-based physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients has not changed significantly between 2005 and 2012, with 87.9% of physicians accepting new Medicare patients in 2005 and 90.7% in 2012.
> 
> ...


http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=another+one+bites+the+dust&FORM=VIRE1#view=detail&mid=89CC5D064C5BA38BCA3B89CC5D064C5BA38BCA3B


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> If the former Governor Palin, failed VP candidate didn't know it was a lie and had no proof that it was true, what should she have done?
> 
> Those changes are not TO the law, they are to the implementation schedule of the law.
> It is the same law it has always been.


Part of the law is when it will be implemented. Do you know that it has not been further tinkered with? Do you even know all parts of the Bill? Did you know that as part of the ACA we are required to pay a 3 1/2 % tax on money made on a resale? This includes houses? That also includes new regs concerning the condition of the house upon sale? What does that have to do with healthcare???


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Only 1 in 5 doctors accepts Medicare? Where do they get this stuff? From the US Department of Health and Human Services:
> 
> According to federal survey data, the percentage of all office-based physicians who report accepting new Medicare patients has not changed significantly between 2005 and 2012, with 87.9% of physicians accepting new Medicare patients in 2005 and 90.7% in 2012.
> 
> ...


Maybe they are just dumping the ones who are whining all the time about Obamacare.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Maybe they are just dumping the ones who are whining all the time about Obamacare.


It must be tempting, I'm sure. :thumbup:


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The difference here is that the ACA is making certain options mandatory. This is going to raise the cost of the insurance for businesses. Your company did not have to comply with mandates of this type and was therefore able to find insurance at lower rates.


No my company did not have to find insurance that covered pre existing conditions. They weren't covered. There was a cap on how much they would pay and they could cancel us at any time.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> I go by an old saying "if what was said isn't who I am then they are not talking about me".
> If you are not a hater and someone uses that term they are not referring to you.


That's right. It doesn't refer to me. 
When I went to the University, they said, "There are lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. Well, we have figures that the unemployment rate is not so bad. (What really happened is they have excluded anyone no longer on unemployment comp.) We have lowered our debt ceiling. (what is really meant is that they didn't raise it as much as previous years).
So now we have other government run agencies telling everyone things such as the one you quoted. My sources tell me that doctors are starting to bail. That they do not like being told how much they may earn and who they must see. I have several doctor friends that have told me they plan to retire in the very near future. Why do you think the plan is being postponed? Any clue? 3 guesses.

So now anyone that disagrees with you is a hater, a whiner, or a racist!
Excellent repertoire of adjectives. ..


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> Part of the law is when it will be implemented. Do you know that it has not been further tinkered with? Do you even know all parts of the Bill? Did you know that as part of the ACA we are required to pay a 3 1/2 % tax on money made on a resale? This includes houses? That also includes new regs concerning the condition of the house upon sale? What does that have to do with healthcare???


I have posted this more than once, but here it is again. You could research this yourself if you wanted to check for the truth.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/04/02/there-is-no-obamacare-tax-on-most-home-sales-really/


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

NJG said:


> I have posted this more than once, but here it is again. You could research this yourself if you wanted to check for the truth.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/04/02/there-is-no-obamacare-tax-on-most-home-sales-really/


I checked it out. Well, you were right! However, that still begs the question: What in the world is it doing in the healthcare bill in the first place??????????? And why do we need yet another tax? Wouldn't it be better to just cut spending??????????


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> That's right. It doesn't refer to me.
> When I went to the University, they said, "There are lies, damn lies, and then there's statistics. Well, we have figures that the unemployment rate is not so bad. (What really happened is they have excluded anyone no longer on unemployment comp.) We have lowered our debt ceiling. (what is really meant is that they didn't raise it as much as previous years).
> So now we have other government run agencies telling everyone things such as the one you quoted. My sources tell me that doctors are starting to bail. That they do not like being told how much they may earn and who they must see. I have several doctor friends that have told me they plan to retire in the very near future. Why do you think the plan is being postponed? Any clue? 3 guesses.
> 
> ...


Not everyone who disagrees with me is a whiner, I leave that up to the doctors to decide. They could determine that it is mental illness or too many drugs.

Again, if that description doesn't describe you it isn't about you. 
You said nothing in your post about being left in the dust by your doc, if I recall, you said that only 20% of doctors (or one in five) would be taking Medicare patients. 
Are you on Medicare and unable to find a doctor? 
We, our representatives that is, actually raised the debt ceiling.

I could be wrong, not my long suit... I think that racist, whiner, and hater are all nouns. Adjectives describe things, racists, whiners, and haters actually are things.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I checked it out. Well, you were right! However, that still begs the question: What in the world is it doing in the healthcare bill in the first place??????????? And why do we need yet another tax? Wouldn't it be better to just cut spending??????????


Then there is that age old question... what do people think putting up to a dozen question marks at the end of a sentence adds to the post?


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

No absolutes. No black and whites. There are racists, and then there are racist bigots....There are whiners and then there are whiners of an idiology. There are haters and then there are haters of those that don't agree with someone. Actually, those last two may be adverbs.

Looking at my previous posts you would see that despite my age, I do not go to doctors. I might if I break something or have an appendicitis, but not for diseases that can be treated by changing my lifestyle somewhat.

An aside here: Isn't it a little petty to take a valid argument and instead of addressing the point, to look at punctuation :?: I call that obsfucation.

I don't mean to post and run, but I really do have a life, so I am terminating this communication. Have a nice life.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> No absolutes. No black and whites. There are racists, and then there are racist bigots....There are whiners and then there are whiners of an idiology. There are haters and then there are haters of those that don't agree with someone. Actually, those last two may be adverbs.
> 
> Looking at my previous posts you would see that despite my age, I do not go to doctors. I might if I break something or have an appendicitis, but not for diseases that can be treated by changing my lifestyle somewhat.
> 
> ...


YOU consider that a valid argument. 
First, it was not an argument it was questions. 
The POINT has been covered more times than either of us can count. If you don't accept it by now, you never will. 
That's fine, you don't have to. 
My question is if you are adamant about not accepting this, why keep asking the same thing forever?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jvoel said:


> Drugs take many years to develop. When finally approved they only have a short time to recoup the costs of development before they go generic and other companies are able to profit , without the cost of R and D.
> 
> Often there are other uses that are discovered. An example is a cancer drug being used to treat macular degeneration. A miracle for that disease, which used to be a diagnosis for blindness in the very near future.
> My husband happens to be one of those scientists as a senior pathologist.H e has never complained about not getting in on the profits or recognition. He has the public good and his love for pathology as a goal in his work.


Your husband sounds like a real scientist, interested in the work rather than the money. Pity the pharmaceutical companies aren't driven by the same interest. According to Wikipedia, a patent lasts 20 years, and that can be extended if the mfr. makes a substantive change in the medication, which might be the shape or color of the pill. That should be enough time to make the meds profitable.

Most drug companies are making very healthy profits. "The combined profits for the ten drug companies in the Fortune 500 ($35.9 billion) were more than the profits for all the other 490 businesses put together ($33.7 billion) [in 2002]. Over the past two decades the pharmaceutical industry has moved very far from its original high purpose of discovering and producing useful new drugs. Now primarily a marketing machine to sell drugs of dubious benefit, this industry uses its wealth and power to co-opt every institution that might stand in its way, including the US Congress, the FDA, academic medical centers, and the medical profession itself."http://www.wanttoknow.info/truthaboutdrugcompanies

I wouldn't feel sorry for them. "In fact, in 2012, the top 11 global drug companies made nearly $85 billion in net profits.

"They made these profits by slapping extraordinary price tags on the prescription drugs and health treatments that Americans are forced to rely on in order to survive devastating diseases like cancer. " http://www.alternet.org/11-major-drug-companies-raked-85-billion-last-year-and-left-many-die-who-couldnt-buy-their-pricey

(From the same piece) "A group of more than 100 leading oncologists from across the globe have penned a journal article, announcing their plans to start a campaign to force drug companies to slash their profit margins.

"In the article, the groups of oncologists ask, 'What determines a morally justifiable price for a cancer drug? A reasonable drug price should maintain healthy pharmaceutical industry profits without being viewed as 'profiteering'. ....

Last year, 11 of the 12 new-to-market drugs approved by the Food and Drug Administration were priced above $100,000 per-patient per-year.

And, Americans pay nearly 50% more for comparable prescriptions in the United States than they would in the UK, France, Germany, Spain and a host of other developed nations. "

That's probably more than you wanted to know, and more than I have time for. You and your husband have my admiration, but I bet the businessmen running the companies couldn't care less about the actual researchers and developers. If I seem cynical, it's because I've been around long enough.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Your husband sounds like a real scientist, interested in the work rather than the money. Pity the pharmaceutical companies aren't driven by the same interest. According to Wikipedia, a patent lasts 20 years, and that can be extended if the mfr. makes a substantive change in the medication, which might be the shape or color of the pill. That should be enough time to make the meds profitable.


I am sure, Empress, that you also know that we, the US taxpayer, fund the basic research and give the pharmaceutical companies that leg up so that they don't have to do the preliminaries that are so expensive and often go nowhere. 
One might think that would be worth some consideration.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I am sure, Empress, that you also know that we, the US taxpayer, fund the basic research and give the pharmaceutical companies that leg up so that they don't have to do the preliminaries that are so expensive and often go nowhere.
> One might think that would be worth some consideration.


I brought that up, "The govt pays for a good deal of drug d&r, but once successful the company keeps all the profits. The govt has managed in the past to make significant discoveries, but you'd never know it these days, when only the private sector gets the recognition. Even the scientists who come up with the ideas and develop the formulas aren't recognized." The woman I was talking to seems to sympathize with the drug companies. I don't blame her, since that's where her husband's livelihood comes from, but she ought to know that however altruistic she and her husband are, the drug companies are the exact opposite.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I brought that up, "The govt pays for a good deal of drug d&r, but once successful the company keeps all the profits. The govt has managed in the past to make significant discoveries, but you'd never know it these days, when only the private sector gets the recognition. Even the scientists who come up with the ideas and develop the formulas aren't recognized." The woman I was talking to seems to sympathize with the drug companies. I don't blame her, since that's where her husband's livelihood comes from, but she ought to know that however altruistic she and her husband are, the drug companies are the exact opposite.


Sorry, I missed that part. 
Yup, my brother has managed to work on MS for his whole career without being a slave to big pharma. Thank goodness, he thought about it for a while... the pay was really tempting. Six figures over 20 years ago, but, he couldn't stomach that boss.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> I have never claimed to be expert in anything other than medical business office revenue cycle and EMR configuration. That would include insurance coverages. That's because it's my job and I've been in the field for over 30 years. If you recall any claims made by me in addition to that then you are confusing me with another KP'er. Knowing you and how you operate, I would venture to guess that you are attempting to cast aspersions on that which I say.
> 
> I'm glad that P1 has paid your claims. I was addressing the situation that the woman from Florida brought up. I know Florida medical office practices as I was revenue cycle contractor for one of their large medical systems during their conversion.
> 
> I'm glad that things worked out for you. There are multiple disaster stories for each success story all over the nation. Also, if you truly believe that things worked out "just fine" in Minnesota you haven't been paying attention to the news. Based on MSM reports your experience is more the exception than the reality.


Thumper - I don't agree with you. If you can give specific examples of people who are worse off because of MNSure then let's see your sources. I asked you to do that the first time you mentioned people you knew who were having a really hard time and you never did. Are those people a figment of your imagination/


----------



## babesy (Feb 5, 2011)

I don't consider myself a hater, either. Just a realist.


----------



## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

No ...just cat scans..with cancer the risk of disease because of the scan is there but on a much lower scale than the risk of the disease progresses..chemotherapy is positively toxic but you need it ...some of the side effects from chemotherapy are horrendous..but u really do not have too many options...weigh you risks and move on..thanks for the concern..


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It make sense if you're a cherry-picker. There's a fascinating piece on this from the Daily Telegraph, http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100248221/bill-ayers-confesses-to-writing-obamas-memoir-he-didnt-but-his-tease-tells-us-a-lot-about-america/
> 
> A couple of paragraphs:
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thumper- When Medicare was initially set up they did that as an incentive to attract providers to rural areas.



thumper5316 said:


> Some coverages apply higher copays to specialists. The different tiers were created to try and make people stay within their demographic area. It's a cost control measure. Reimbursement contracts differ based on zip code (which is tied to income) and clinic/hospital system. Even Medicare reimburses higher in a rural area than in a large city. I can't say that it's right but that's the reality we have to deal with.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I wasn't aware that one could still have a Health Savings Account. That is a good thing. You really have been screwed. Blessings to you for good health.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Don't be fooled into thinking that o-care doesn't affect employer provided plans. We had the best insurance plan ever. We paid a co pay of $15 to see our regular doctor, a $25 co pay to see a specialist and a $100 co pay for hospitalization. All tests and lab work were covered 100%. When the president announced that employers would be taxed for providing what he called "Cadillac plans", my husband's employer dropped that plan and went with one that was approved by o-care. We now have no co pays. We have a health savings account, in which we put pre tax dollars (our money) and another account that the employer puts a little. We have to pay 100% of our bills up to a $3500 deductible, after which insurance pays 80%, we pay 20%. I'm a cancer survivor. I have to go to the doctor a lot. I have to have tests. O-care has done nothing but hurt us! Oh, I forgot to mention, the premiums for the new plan are higher. If my cancer comes back, we are totally screwed! Thank you mr president, for taking care of us!!!


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Yes they did exist. And there were many forms depending on your insurance carrier, your choice and your employer's choice.



Montana Gramma said:


> My deductible "use to be " $500. They did exist.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> want and force in the same sentence are to ... as fun sex and rape are to...


Not surprised to see that this type of analogy is used in response to a thoughtful and considered post...becoming desensitized to this garbage...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> No ...just cat scans..with cancer the risk of disease because of the scan is there but on a much lower scale than the risk of the disease progresses..chemotherapy is positively toxic but you need it ...some of the side effects from chemotherapy are horrendous..but u really do not have too many options...weigh you risks and move on..thanks for the concern..


Good luck to you and your husband, Llavaia. I hope you get in touch with your congress people and ask them to help you out. They can sometimes get attention and action on such things that we can't and know "who to contact" that will get results for you.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Not surprised to see that this type of analogy is used in response to a thoughtful and considered post...becoming desensitized to this garbage...


So don't read it.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

NJG said:


> I have posted this more than once, but here it is again. You could research this yourself if you wanted to check for the truth.
> 
> http://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2012/04/02/there-is-no-obamacare-tax-on-most-home-sales-really/


That is a 2 year ago link.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is a 2 year ago link.


That book you revere so much has been around for 1600 years.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

It is not my choice for medical care but I do have friends who have had positive outcomes. And there is research in the efficacy of some methods.

If individuals prefer and get good results why shouldn't there be an insurance plan to cover the costs??



Poor Purl said:


> How about because there's been no reliable research done on their effectiveness?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> It is not my choice for medical care but I do have friends who have had positive outcomes. And there is research in the efficacy of some methods.
> 
> If individuals prefer and get good results why shouldn't there be an insurance plan to cover the costs??


For the same reason that if you prefer a Ferrari you pay the difference. It is about choice and personal responsibility.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> That is the best advice I have seen in a while.


Then why don't you heed that advice?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> So don't read it.


I'll read whatever I want. Who died and made you the arbiter of this thread?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

No. The NYT had an article on Sunday about drugs manufactured in India. Well worth a read for anyone taking meds.



SQM said:


> Is pharmaceutical research reliable?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

jvoel said:


> "Stale News" ??? Now I know why you don't know that socialism does not work . You are not thinking that "HISTORY" is a great teacher


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The link is 2 years old but the tax effects the 2013 tax year.


Thanks


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Cheeky Blighter -- you are leaving out some details of why your plan is so good. You said you have a platinum plan (the best). So that is why you are able to have the doctors you want??? You said it pays 90/10 (sounds good), What is your premium? What is the deductible? What is your out of pocket cap? Isn't it nice that you are one of the few that can afford the best? or are you getting a subsidy to help you pay for it? This has gone on for 75+ pages and no details have been given so the rest of us can understand how your plan works?


Joey - I have attached a link to a list of insurance plans offered through MNSure from that website. I selected PreferredOne Ultimate Select+D. You can select any of the plans to participate in that are available to your county of residence. Counties are listed to the right and you review ones that are offered for your county. You can check out if your current doctors, clinics, hospitals are included if that is of importance to you to keep them. You also can review the drug formulary if you have a particular drug that you want to insure is covered. I also wanted dental coverage and all plans with a D after the name of the plan indicate you can get a Delta Dental plan also for an additional premium amount. There are also a number of dental options and you select the one that fits your needs. There are Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum levels in addition to Catastrophic for young adults who have the option to get that kind of coverage. The bronze level has the highest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and provides the basic coverages offered by ACA. It also has the lowest premium amounts. The platinum level has the lowest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and additional perks such as help paying gym or Y memberships, help paying for approved weight loss programs, etc. . It also has the highest premiums. If your total family income is within certain limits you may qualify for a credit to help reduce your premium amount. This is one reason why ACA is tied into your tax return/IRS as your premiums could very from yearto year based on income changes and if you get a credit it would be based on that income amount. Premium amount is also based on the person's age for adults and additional premium for family coverage. Platinum level deductible is $1000 In/$2000 out. Office visits are $35 copay/visit up to 5 visits then 0% coinsurance. Preventative care /screening/immunization/x-ray, bloodwork,CT/PET scans and MRI's are all no charge in network and 40% out-of-network. Monthly premium for healthcare/dental combined is less than $400/mo. This is much less than I was paying before and the coverage is much better. I would recommend anyone in MN to check it out and see if it may be a better option compared to what they currently have. It may not be advantageous for some but it is working for me and we have gotten several replies from other KP people that they are happy with their new coverage and this comes from a variety of states. I hope it will succeed and improve and that more and more people will participate in the future.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Okay...let's look at the original thread. Obama care works. I am happy that it works for some people. Here is the problem and why people are upset. About 50 pages or so ago, car insurance was brought up. It got me to thinking. Yes, the Government requires car insurance. I have car insurance. I don't have motorcycle coverage, because I don't have a mororcycle. I don't have coverage in case my car spills cement on another vehicle because I don't drive a cement truck. I don't have pizza coverage (ridiculous I know) because I don't drive pizza. If I don't have insurance, nothing happens unless I get caught and then the mechanisms are in place to correct that--meaning fines and penalties. I buy what I need and that is that. 
Switch this analogy to ACA. Are there good aspects to the ACA? Absolutely! People are upset because it is required that we all have the same bottom line. I am not going to have any more children, why do I need maternity care? I don't have mental health issues (yet!) and don't need it. Why am I being fined before I have done anything wrong? Idon't know all the nuances of the law, but the problem is:I no longer have a choice what is appropriate for me. Why do I want people telling me what is good for me and my family? Do I (or we) really want someone telling me the know better than I? 
I believe that most people would be upset if they were required to have motorcycle insurance when they don't own a motorcycle.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

RUKnitting said:


> I wasn't aware that one could still have a Health Savings Account. That is a good thing. You really have been screwed. Blessings to you for good health.


Absolutely. I have a HSA account. Works well


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thumper- If a family member say daughter or a charity pays for the medication and documents the source of funds, are they still in jeopardy of losing their Medicaid benefits??



thumper5316 said:


> The thought process being if you have enough money to pay out-of-pocket for a medication you have enough money to do without the assistance.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Thumper5316 said: The thought process is if you have enough money to pay out-of-pocket for a medication you have enough money to do without assistance. 
What if I have determined it is very important for me to have the medicine and I scrimp to put together the money to get the medicine. Is there any allowance for this?


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

True, but it sure does make budget development difficult.



thumper5316 said:


> However, businesses are still in business because they plan for future contingencies. ACA being one of them.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'll read whatever I want. Who died and made you the arbiter of this thread?


Then stop your b***ing wh***ing.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is one thing that the GOP wants to expand, the Health Savings Account.
> 
> The sad thing is that a high deductible catastrophic plan in the ACA is only available to those under 30. Why not everyone?


Because as we live (and grow) we're at risk for more things to happen to our bodies and more likely to need better coverage?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

gjz said:


> Thumper5316 said: The thought process is if you have enough money to pay out-of-pocket for a medication you have enough money to do without assistance.
> What if I have determined it is very important for me to have the medicine and I scrimp to put together the money to get the medicine. Is there any allowance for this?


I think that the idea is that you are destitute if you qualify for Medicaid. You are living below the federal poverty line. That is below 11,000 dollars a year. I understand that some states are stricter than that. 
Now that there is expanded Medicaid, who knows, maybe they will rethink that in states that have accepted that assistance. 
This is why so many of us get a little crazy about income inequality. 
Is a poor person's life really worth less than a rich person's?
That person who can't get health care may just be the future parent of the Messiah.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> No ...just cat scans..with cancer the risk of disease because of the scan is there but on a much lower scale than the risk of the disease progresses..chemotherapy is positively toxic but you need it ...some of the side effects from chemotherapy are horrendous..but u really do not have too many options...weigh you risks and move on..thanks for the concern..


The good old Catch-22. You're in a tough spot. But you can't give up fighting for what you need; it could be a life-or-death situation. It might be a good idea to start your own thread and find out what others in your situation have done.

I know of one person on KP who had a lot of trouble getting her ins. company to pay for services they were contracted to pay for yet kept refusing her. She borrowed money to pay for the necessary care but kept at the insurers and eventually won. This was a few years ago, long before the ACA, so your mileage may vary, but I think there must be others who've won out. Good luck.

BTW, what part of NYC are you in? You can answer privately, if you like. I would.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> This is why so many of us get a little crazy about income inequality.
> Is a poor person's life really worth less than a rich person's?
> That person who can't get health care may just be the future parent of the Messiah.


Income inequality has happened forever. Jesus...was from a destitute family and that didn't stop him. He became powerful while not having a lot of money. Where there's a will, there's a way. He had the will and made it happen. You can't legislate who has more money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Not so funny. This is what Joeysomma thinks is proof that Ayers wrote Obama's book.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She says it is satire. I'm still laughing and no one can stop me.



Poor Purl said:


> Not so funny. This is what Joeysomma thinks is proof that Ayers wrote Obama's book.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is one thing that the GOP wants to expand, the Health Savings Account.
> 
> The sad thing is that a high deductible catastrophic plan in the ACA is only available to those under 30. Why not everyone?


Joey, who is supposed to pick up the tab if people who carry only catastrophic care don't have the means to pay their entire bill? Do you want your taxes to cover it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I started by making a true statement. Bill Ayers did say he wrote Obama's book. He said it to get attention. Then later I posted the website saying it was satire.
> 
> And how long did it take before you realized it was satire. Then someone had to tell me it was satire posting the same website.
> 
> So who is reading the websites??????


If the statement was on the book jacket or in an ad, it probably wasn't written by Ayers himself but by some marketing person, who thought it would be funny to say that. They're the ones who try for attention. But when you first mentioned it, it sounded as though you believed it.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> She says it is satire. I'm still laughing and no one can stop me.


damemary you look so glamorous tonight!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

gjz said:


> Income inequality has happened forever. Jesus...was from a destitute family and that didn't stop him. He became powerful while not having a lot of money. Where there's a will, there's a way. He had the will and made it happen. You can't legislate who has more money.


Actually, the way the story goes, he was chosen to die on a cross by his father's plan. 
That doesn't seem very powerful to me especially since some claim him as God.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> That book you revere so much has been around for 1600 years.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If the statement was on the book jacket or in an ad, it probably wasn't written by Ayers himself but by some marketing person, who thought it would be funny to say that. They're the ones who try for attention. But when you first mentioned it, it sounded as though you believed it.


Nobody can be inside her head, the post certainly read like she believed it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is a 2 year ago link.


That doesn't make it untrue.


----------



## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter wrote:
Joey - I have attached a link to a list of insurance plans offered through MNSure from that website. I selected PreferredOne Ultimate Select+D. You can select any of the plans to participate in that are available to your county of residence. Counties are listed to the right and you review ones that are offered for your county. You can check out if your current doctors, clinics, hospitals are included if that is of importance to you to keep them. You also can review the drug formulary if you have a particular drug that you want to insure is covered. I also wanted dental coverage and all plans with a D after the name of the plan indicate you can get a Delta Dental plan also for an additional premium amount. There are also a number of dental options and you select the one that fits your needs. There are Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum levels in addition to Catastrophic for young adults who have the option to get that kind of coverage. The bronze level has the highest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and provides the basic coverages offered by ACA. It also has the lowest premium amounts. The platinum level has the lowest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and additional perks such as help paying gym or Y memberships, help paying for approved weight loss programs, etc. . It also has the highest premiums. If your total family income is within certain limits you may qualify for a credit to help reduce your premium amount. This is one reason why ACA is tied into your tax return/IRS as your premiums could very from yearto year based on income changes and if you get a credit it would be based on that income amount. Premium amount is also based on the person's age for adults and additional premium for family coverage. Platinum level deductible is $1000 In/$2000 out. Office visits are $35 copay/visit up to 5 visits then 0% coinsurance. Preventative care /screening/immunization/x-ray, bloodwork,CT/PET scans and MRI's are all no charge in network and 40% out-of-network. Monthly premium for healthcare/dental combined is less than $400/mo. This is much less than I was paying before and the coverage is much better. I would recommend anyone in MN to check it out and see if it may be a better option compared to what they currently have. It may not be advantageous for some but it is working for me and we have gotten several replies from other KP people that they are happy with their new coverage and this comes from a variety of states. I hope it will succeed and improve and that more and more people will participate in the future.


Wow! Cheeky Blighter! It appears you have gotten a good deal on your insurance. Leave it to MN to do such a nice job. Thanks for the stats.


----------



## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

Poor purl ... I live in Manhattan...not the easiest place to live...which is a problem...medical costs here are so far and above the average..


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Thank you for the numbers, the only one you are missing is an out of pocket cap. It is much better than I expected. I can see that MN plan is in much better shape than Healthcare.gov. When I tried to find a plan on there, for a cousin, it was very confusing. only deductible, premiums and out of pocket caps. We gave up, and she went to the hospital where they had someone to help her. incidentally, I did not use her personal information as I wanted to see what was there before any personal information was entered. This was October, maybe it is in better shape now. I have not met anyone who was able to get through on the website by themselves. I ask everyone of my clients about their health care, more than 100 so far.


That is $1000 In/Unlimited Out. Initially, it was troublesome but once the bugs were ironed out I managed by myself to sign up. I was used to using a computer but a lot of people who were trying to enroll that way were not and it would have probably been better to go in and sit down with a person to assist you fill out a manual application or have a friend or relative help who knew how to use a computer. There were days at the beginning where you would keep getting kicked off the website or you would lose information you had already entered and have to do it again. So no, it has had problems.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> It is not my choice for medical care but I do have friends who have had positive outcomes. And there is research in the efficacy of some methods.
> 
> If individuals prefer and get good results why shouldn't there be an insurance plan to cover the costs??


I suppose someone could start a new kind of insurance. It may not be govt. subsidized, but what _was_ just a couple of years ago? But some individuals see prayer as what keeps them healthy - should we have govt. subsidized prayer insurance? Or gym insurance for those who go daily to keep fit? (I see all those heads nodding like bobbleheads.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So do you GlamourPuss.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary you look so glamorous tonight!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Joey, who is supposed to pick up the tab if people who carry only catastrophic care don't have the means to pay their entire bill? Do you want your taxes to cover it?


Isn't it only young'uns who can get catastrophic coverage only?
So they will borrow money from Mom and Dad to file bankruptcy, have Mummy and Daddy finance a vehicle for them, put the parents' names on an apt... it will be wonderful.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

gjz said:


> Cheeky Blighter wrote:
> Joey - I have attached a link to a list of insurance plans offered through MNSure from that website. I selected PreferredOne Ultimate Select+D. You can select any of the plans to participate in that are available to your county of residence. Counties are listed to the right and you review ones that are offered for your county. You can check out if your current doctors, clinics, hospitals are included if that is of importance to you to keep them. You also can review the drug formulary if you have a particular drug that you want to insure is covered. I also wanted dental coverage and all plans with a D after the name of the plan indicate you can get a Delta Dental plan also for an additional premium amount. There are also a number of dental options and you select the one that fits your needs. There are Bronze, Silver, Gold and Platinum levels in addition to Catastrophic for young adults who have the option to get that kind of coverage. The bronze level has the highest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and provides the basic coverages offered by ACA. It also has the lowest premium amounts. The platinum level has the lowest out of pocket limit, copays and deductibles and additional perks such as help paying gym or Y memberships, help paying for approved weight loss programs, etc. . It also has the highest premiums. If your total family income is within certain limits you may qualify for a credit to help reduce your premium amount. This is one reason why ACA is tied into your tax return/IRS as your premiums could very from yearto year based on income changes and if you get a credit it would be based on that income amount. Premium amount is also based on the person's age for adults and additional premium for family coverage. Platinum level deductible is $1000 In/$2000 out. Office visits are $35 copay/visit up to 5 visits then 0% coinsurance. Preventative care /screening/immunization/x-ray, bloodwork,CT/PET scans and MRI's are all no charge in network and 40% out-of-network. Monthly premium for healthcare/dental combined is less than $400/mo. This is much less than I was paying before and the coverage is much better. I would recommend anyone in MN to check it out and see if it may be a better option compared to what they currently have. It may not be advantageous for some but it is working for me and we have gotten several replies from other KP people that they are happy with their new coverage and this comes from a variety of states. I hope it will succeed and improve and that more and more people will participate in the future.
> 
> Wow! Cheeky Blighter! It appears you have gotten a good deal on your insurance. Leave it to MN to do such a nice job.  Thanks for the stats.


Thanks gjz. I hope many more people will be happy with it. ait sounds like states with their own exchanges have done better and I believe have had a lot larger selection of plans to select from. People in our state selected the plans who got to participate and there was a lot of competition from the insurance companies so that is always good.


----------



## Jules934 (May 7, 2013)

stirfry said:


> I am so happy that it is working for you. For so many it is a disaster. The state hospital where we go to several different doctors is not taking any of the insurance from Obamacare. They say the reimbursements are too low. Doesn't say much for a state hospital.


I think it is saying a lot about Obamacare.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Jules934 said:


> I think it is saying a lot about Obamacare.


It is saying a lot about something, I doubt that it is about Obamacare.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The first statement I heard Bill Ayers say on TV, then he laughed.


What show was that on, Joeysomma?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> What show was that on, Joeysomma?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

gjz said:


> Income inequality has happened forever. Jesus...was from a destitute family and that didn't stop him. He became powerful while not having a lot of money. Where there's a will, there's a way. He had the will and made it happen. You can't legislate who has more money.


Hey, look who his Father was. He had a better inheritance than the Koch brothers.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfIZDYm0a54


Thanks.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is the deductible. What is the cap?  in-other-words, what is the largest amount of money you have to pay before the insurance pays the rest. To me this is the most important part of any plan. $1000 or $2000 deductible is minor, but what if the cap is $15,000 or $20,000? That is a bit harder to come by, in a year.


Joey that is the cap for the year. $1000 for in network and unlimited /no cap on out-of-network. Yes that was what I was looking at too. The bronze level is $6,300 Individual to $12,600 for family in network and no cap on out-of-network so even the bronze level is pretty reasonable. That's why I am so happy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nobody can be inside her head, the post certainly read like she believed it.


I'm finding it hard to contemplate the first part of that sentence.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The first statement I heard Bill Ayers say on TV, then he laughed.


Actually, he didn't laugh. He said "if you can help me prove that, I will split..." off into unintelligible language. The audience laughed. 
And it was at Montclair State University, at least according to the link that CB put up for me.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm finding it hard to contemplate the first part of that sentence.


I actually find Joey and so low the two who seem to try to think about things they read. That is, if they read what is put out there.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Joey that is the cap for the year. $1000 for in network and unlimited /no cap on out-of-network. Yes that was what I was looking at too. That's why I am so happy.


Uh huh, that is what I thought I read, $1000 in network/$2000. out of network, though you used shorthand.
Oh wait, what was the 2K for? two people?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Llavaia said:


> Poor purl ... I live in Manhattan...not the easiest place to live...which is a problem...medical costs here are so far and above the average..


I do, too, Llavaia, and I know what costs are like. I'm so thankful we're old enough for Medicare, which has thus far never denied us a claim.

I'm on the Upper West Side. What area do you live in? (Always on the lookout for knitting companions.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The first statement I heard Bill Ayers say on TV, then he laughed.


Okay.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> Thumper- If a family member say daughter or a charity pays for the medication and documents the source of funds, are they still in jeopardy of losing their Medicaid benefits??


No. Just the assets of the person are taken into consideration. I know of a couple of young women who were on Medicaid that underwent AI and their SOs, who did have money, paid for the procedures. Of course the resulting pregnancies and aftercare for the children were paid for by the state.

Some recipients have conditions that require constant care. However, they do have assets. In those cases they will have what is called a spend down or monthly amount they are responsible to pay before their benefits will go into effect.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> I actually find Joey and so low the two who seem to try to think about things they read. That is, if they read what is put out there.


I think so too. Mainly Joey, who knows a lot of useful stuff. So low often falls back on "typical liberal blah blah," but Joey has civilized conversation. I hope she doesn't mind being talked about this way. Do you, Joey?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Uh huh, that is what I thought I read, $1000 in network/$2000. out of network, though you used shorthand.
> Oh wait, what was the 2K for? two people?


It's $1000 in network/ no cap on out-of-network for me and if it was family it's $2000 in network/no cap out-of network. You really want to stay in network. All my doctors/specialists are in the network so I'm good.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

thumper5316 said:


> No. Just the assets of the person are taken into consideration. I know of a couple of young women who were on Medicaid that underwent AI and their SOs, who did have money, paid for the procedures. Of course the resulting pregnancies and aftercare for the children were paid for by the state.
> 
> Some recipients have conditions that require constant care. However, they do have assets. In those cases they will have what is called a spend down or monthly amount they are responsible to pay before their benefits will go into effect.


Thumper I know that people in rural northern MN who owned homes and received Medicaid had to turn their houses over to the county after the surviving spouse died to pay for the medicaid they received. If there were surviving children they had first option to but the house back from the county. Is that true all over the state do you know?


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

My head is swimming with words! So much info out there I took a break from knitting and started reading the constitution of the United States of America. Good read


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

The physicians office helps to resolve these denials because sometimes it involves a code and usually paper work is required. In the past medical offices would get approval or prior authorization for tests and/or procedures. This was also true of drugs. And some insurances don't pay for certain drugs but in this case the physician can sometimes prescribe another.



thumper5316 said:


> Good for you! It absolutely can (and should on many occasions) be done.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper I know that people in rural northern MN who owned homes and received Medicaid had to turn their houses over to the county after the surviving spouse died to pay for the medicaid they received. If there were surviving children they had first option to but the house back from the county. Is that true all over the state do you know?


It would depend on how the estate was set up or if the recipient died intestate. The probate process will determine what the state can take to satisfy funds extended to the deceased for their care prior to their passing. Family members are more than welcome to pay any monies towards that care if they would like to keep assets in the family.

The rules for funds recovery are set at the federal level which all states must abide by.

Here is a link to an article which you may find informative. I also encourage you to consult a good estate planner.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/daltcp/reports/estaterec.htm


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> My head is swimming with words! So much info out there I took a break from knitting and started reading the constitution of the United States of America. Good read


I just picked up a new copy at the library the other day, I think I will read it to my grandson as he goes down for his nap.


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Today I asked my Doctor how or if Obama Care was affecting her and her husbands family owned practice. She replied it certainly had. 

Their Family Care Practice consists of her and her husband who operate this Family Care practice in a community located about 12 miles outside of our City, a/k/a "The North Country". She said that the majority of her patients live in this area and have had to choose Obama Care that carry high deductibles in order to make the premiums affordable. As a result, patients are NOT visiting the Doctors until they are very sick as they can't afford to pay the deductibles (i.e. the full cost of the charge for a full office call - $150).

I count my blessings as when I retired, my health insurance was part of my pension benefits. It makes up for all the times I felt like quitting my job BEFORE I was qualified to retire with full benefits!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> My aim is to carry on a civilized conversation. I have a lot of life experiences to share. I am a teacher, and they say once a teacher, always a teacher.


You really do know a lot, and you're always willing to share it. And no nasty insults, now that I think of it.


----------



## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> The physicians office helps to resolve these denials because sometimes it involves a code and usually paper work is required. In the past medical offices would get approval or prior authorization for tests and/or procedures. This was also true of drugs. And some insurances don't pay for certain drugs but in this case the physician can sometimes prescribe another.


I ran into this problem last week when I had to go for blood work at the same place I've been going to now for the past 5 years. I had to sign a paper saying I would pay the FULL cost of the bloodwork being done on me because my Doctor did not put a "Code" on the bloodwork form authorizing what bloodwork I needed.

The nurse told me not to worry about it as she would simply call the Doctor and get the "code number" from her and write in on my form and I PROBABLY would not have to pay for it.

She said this was a requirement now because of Medicare.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Thumper I know that people in rural northern MN who owned homes and received Medicaid had to turn their houses over to the county after the surviving spouse died to pay for the medicaid they received. If there were surviving children they had first option to but the house back from the county. Is that true all over the state do you know?


It's a great way to put your health care on a credit card, isn't it? Interest free?
Though I have not been able to figure out yet why people want to hold on to those old homes that probably are drafty and hard to heat... we sold my parents' home as soon as my mother couldnt stay there any more. I am convinced that she got better care as a private pay patient than she would have had on Medicaid. It helped that my father had already passed when she hit that point.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Joan Thelma said:


> I ran into this problem last week when I had to go for blood work at the same place I've been going to now for the past 5 years. I had to sign a paper saying I would pay the FULL cost of the bloodwork being done on me because my Doctor did not put a "Code" on the bloodwork form authorizing what bloodwork I needed.
> 
> The nurse told me not to worry about it as she would simply call the Doctor and get the "code number" from her and write in on my form and I PROBABLY would not have to pay for it.
> 
> She said this was a requirement now because of Medicare.


I've had this happen to me often; I'm told that Medicare sometimes won't cover certain tests, so the provider needs to be covered. So far I've never had to pay for these tests.


----------



## thumper5316 (Oct 7, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> The physicians office helps to resolve these denials because sometimes it involves a code and usually paper work is required. In the past medical offices would get approval or prior authorization for tests and/or procedures. This was also true of drugs. And some insurances don't pay for certain drugs but in this case the physician can sometimes prescribe another.


Also, there are times when a drug not in an insurance company's formulary might be covered because the patient does not respond well to the generic or other pharmaceutical comparative drug that is in the formulary.

My own personal story has to do with my middle son. He broke his knee cap when he was 12 and the growth plate in the leg fused. That leg was not going to get any longer. We were faced with different options depending on how tall he grew and he would need to be checked every month or so for growth. During the course of his care we changed insurance companies and that specialist was no longer in our network. We appealed and under continuity of care the insurer covered that physician and any care costs, including surgery, hospitalizations, etc. that would result from any procedure deemed to be necessary. Ew...would you want to have your leg bone extended? None of the options to do that were pleasant sounding.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

If they wouldn't pay for a CAT I doubt they'll pay for an MRI.


Poor Purl said:


> Are there tests other than CAT scans that will give the information? There have been new articles about too many CAT scans, which carry radiation risks, since they're essentially X-rays. I don't believe for a minute that this is the reason they're being denied, but who knows? MRI's or ultrasound won't help?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

RUKnitting said:


> If they wouldn't pay for a CAT I doubt they'll pay for an MRI.


MRI's are more expensive, but who knows why they're disallowing the CAT scan.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Medicare pays according to a fee schedule. Whatever it costs the Blues or Aetna to process claims is their business expense and they will try to have it as cost effective as possible.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, you're right. But they still don't cost what Blue Cross or Aetna would cost for the same work.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Medicare pays according to a fee schedule. Whatever it costs the Blues or Aetna to process claims is their business expense and they will try to have it as cost effective as possible.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, you're right. But they still don't cost what Blue Cross or Aetna would cost for the same work.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Then stop your b***ing wh***ing.


And you stop pontificating. Are you being paid by the Democrats to spruik their ideals? You're a pain in the a--e


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

More good news.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-02-17/older-americans-are-early-winners-under-health-law

Signing up younger, healthier enrollees is seen as more difficult, but crucial to keeping future insurance rates from increasing. The administration said those age groups may put off enrolling until closer to the March 31 deadline.

"We have always anticipated that those with more health needs would sign up early on, and that young and healthy people would wait until the end," administration spokeswoman Joanne Peters said.

Some of the aging boomers were determined to get coverage in the marketplace, despite repeated problems and frustration with the federal website.

The hours spent online and over the phone paid off for real estate agent Greg Burke and his beautician wife, Pat. The empty-nesters qualified for a tax credit that will lower their monthly health insurance premiums by nearly half.

The Burkes, from Akron, Ohio, are among the 38 percent of marketplace enrollees in the state between 55 and 64 years old. He's 61 and had a knee replaced six years ago.

They will now spend $250 a month for health insurance, "a huge savings," Greg Burke said. Their deductibles also dropped from $2,500 each to $750 each, meaning they will pay less out of pocket.

In Miami, licensed practical nurse Marie Cadet, who is 54, often works double shifts to make ends meet for herself and her 12-year-old daughter. She had been paying more than $150 a month for health insurance, with a $3,000 deductible. In effect, she paid most medical costs out of her own pocket, including about $80 a month for blood pressure medicine.

After choosing a plan from the marketplace, Cadet's monthly payment dropped to $86 a month, with the government kicking in $300. Her deductible fell to a more affordable $900.

"Now," Cadet said, "I'm not scared anymore."


----------



## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

**raising hand in air**. I just looked at Oregon enrollment. Boy oh boy they have some explains to do. It's appalling that people can just resign. Somebody tell me that somebody will be held accountable for misused funds from taxpayers


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

You go Girl. It's still a free country.



joeysomma said:
 

> I will post what I please.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Poor logic. Never pass the logic test.



Janet Cooke said:


> For the same reason that if you prefer a Ferrari you pay the difference. It is about choice and personal responsibility.


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Then why don't you heed that advice?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Love Love Love you Aussies. Aussie Aussie Aussie



Wombatnomore said:


> I'll read whatever I want. Who died and made you the arbiter of this thread?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

And just think you only mentioned a few of the items for which people will be paying and having no need . How about men and abortions? Plus all the items which most people would consider out of the purview of medicine. I wish help were on the way.



gjz said:


> Okay...let's look at the original thread. Obama care works. I am happy that it works for some people. Here is the problem and why people are upset. About 50 pages or so ago, car insurance was brought up. It got me to thinking. Yes, the Government requires car insurance. I have car insurance. I don't have motorcycle coverage, because I don't have a mororcycle. I don't have coverage in case my car spills cement on another vehicle because I don't drive a cement truck. I don't have pizza coverage (ridiculous I know) because I don't drive pizza. If I don't have insurance, nothing happens unless I get caught and then the mechanisms are in place to correct that--meaning fines and penalties. I buy what I need and that is that.
> Switch this analogy to ACA. Are there good aspects to the ACA? Absolutely! People are upset because it is required that we all have the same bottom line. I am not going to have any more children, why do I need maternity care? I don't have mental health issues (yet!) and don't need it. Why am I being fined before I have done anything wrong? Idon't know all the nuances of the law, but the problem is:I no longer have a choice what is appropriate for me. Why do I want people telling me what is good for me and my family? Do I (or we) really want someone telling me the know better than I?
> I believe that most people would be upset if they were required to have motorcycle insurance when they don't own a motorcycle.


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

I'm pleased to hear that they are still allowed.



gjz said:


> Absolutely. I have a HSA account. Works well


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## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> This is one thing that the GOP wants to expand, the Health Savings Account.
> 
> The sad thing is that a high deductible catastrophic plan in the ACA is only available to those under 30. Why not everyone?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## RUKnitting (Dec 17, 2012)

Thanks. Your GS thinks this is all too funny. He makes me laugh every time I see him. So cute.



thumper5316 said:


> No. Just the assets of the person are taken into consideration. I know of a couple of young women who were on Medicaid that underwent AI and their SOs, who did have money, paid for the procedures. Of course the resulting pregnancies and aftercare for the children were paid for by the state.
> 
> Some recipients have conditions that require constant care. However, they do have assets. In those cases they will have what is called a spend down or monthly amount they are responsible to pay before their benefits will go into effect.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

In this life we often pay for things that don't concern us personally. For instance, I don't have any children yet a portion of my taxes go for schools and education. Do I kvetch? No, because it helps the community I live in. New insurance policies may cover things you yourself don't need, but their inclusion in general helps the larger community.


----------



## Lynncard12 (Mar 1, 2013)

LOL! Someone must have gotten and taken their marching orders from Organizing for American or maybe they got the email with marching orders from David Plouffe. That is the only way I can explain anyone going onto a board about knitting and talking about something as disappointing as the Affordable Healthcare Act.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> In this life we often pay for things that don't concern us personally. For instance, I don't have any children yet a portion of my taxes go for schools and education. Do I kvetch? No, because it helps the community I live in. New insurance policies may cover things you yourself don't need, but their inclusion in general helps the larger community.


That's pretty much the way most insurance works, but people seem to forget that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Count me in. I apologize to Joey for past transgressions and will strive to do better.



Poor Purl said:


> You really do know a lot, and you're always willing to share it. And no nasty insults, now that I think of it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> And you stop pontificating. Are you being paid by the Democrats to spruik their ideals? You're a pain in the a--e


And you're a rude one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so glad to hear. I don't think people should have to weigh life and death decisions with cost alone.



Janet Cooke said:


> More good news.
> 
> http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2014-02-17/older-americans-are-early-winners-under-health-law
> 
> ...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

ginalola said:


> **raising hand in air**. I just looked at Oregon enrollment. Boy oh boy they have some explains to do. It's appalling that people can just resign. Somebody tell me that somebody will be held accountable for misused funds from taxpayers


Well, if it is criminal, they will go to jail. 
Can you provide a source so we can see what you are talking about?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> And you're a rude one.


Just think if I were being paid a nickel a post, I could be rich!


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> Count me in. I apologize to Joey for past transgressions and will strive to do better.


HAHAAHAA, let us not get carried away. 
Trust but verify.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Lynncard12 said:


> LOL! Someone must have gotten and taken their marching orders from Organizing for American or maybe they got the email with marching orders from David Plouffe. That is the only way I can explain anyone going onto a board about knitting and talking about something as disappointing as the Affordable Healthcare Act.


Someone must be one of the uninformed, no doubt about it, to come on an open forum and complain about people talking openly.


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> In this life we often pay for things that don't concern us personally. For instance, I don't have any children yet a portion of my taxes go for schools and education. Do I kvetch? No, because it helps the community I live in. New insurance policies may cover things you yourself don't need, but their inclusion in general helps the larger community.


You have it exactly right. 
Just a quick mention that if that person who handles your food prep can get to the doctor and find out they need to be out of work because of that nasty bronchial infection it may just keep you from getting sick. 
Now, if we can just get people paid sick time...


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm so glad to hear. I don't think people should have to weigh life and death decisions with cost alone.


That's right, they should disband those death panels, too!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And you're a rude one.


I know you are but what am I?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Janet Cooke said:


> Just think if I were being paid a nickel a post, I could be rich!


And because you're spreading the word over multiple threads, why, that would make you a squillionaire! Lucky, crass you!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> You have it exactly right.
> Just a quick mention that if that person who handles your food prep can get to the doctor and find out they need to be out of work because of that nasty bronchial infection it may just keep you from getting sick.
> Now, if we can just get people paid sick time...


It's surprising that the right can't see that it's not just the "lower classes" who benefit from the ACA but everyone who comes in secondary contact with them. So many are employed by the food service industry.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> And because you're spreading the word over multiple threads, why, that would make you a squillionaire! Lucky, crass you!


Now who do I know who uses that word all the time?


----------



## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It's surprising that the right can't see that it's not just the "lower classes" who benefit from the ACA but everyone who comes in secondary contact with them. So many are employed by the food service industry.


Nobody ever claimed (except for that chubby, little, white haired, *failed* presidential candidate) that conservatives were deep thinkers. 
The self involvement of their thought processes can't carry through to logical conclusions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Janet Cooke said:


> Nobody ever claimed (except for that chubby, little, white haired, *failed* presidential candidate) that conservatives were deep thinkers.
> The self involvement of their thought processes can't carry through to logical conclusions.


They have so little contact with working people (except for Mitt's yard-workers) that they don't remember there are any.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you. I shall.



Janet Cooke said:


> HAHAAHAA, let us not get carried away.
> Trust but verify.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Janet Cooke said:


> Someone must be one of the uninformed, no doubt about it, to come on an open forum and complain about people talking openly.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good catch.



Janet Cooke said:


> Now who do I know who uses that word all the time?


----------



## Llavaia (Oct 14, 2013)

Poor Purl...I would love to hook up ..I will be in touch.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I know you are but what am I?


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

ginalola said:


> OMG. Your so funny. Any mention of a black magazine makes me racist. Honey. You really have no idea who I am. There is no way I could be racist. But I do have a great sense of humor and am well rounded


No, I said your comment was a passive-aggressive racist comment.

Why would my comment have to have come from "Jet" and if it had, why would that have any bearing on the legitimacy of what I said?

What was the insinuation behind that comment? What does "Jet" have to do with what I said?

The inference behind your comment (which is what makes it passive aggressive) is what makes it racist in nature.

You have to be harboring some prejudiced stereotypes in order to have made a comment like that. No one OTHER than someone who harbors some degree of prejudice would make a comment like that.

And why would you not be able to be racist? Do you have some sort of special powers that make you immune to picking up some bad ideas from the racist culture that surrounds us all? Even minorities can have prejudiced/racists views towards other minority groups. Heck, even some minorities have some racist views WITHIN their own minority group. That's how you get people like Herman Cain and Clarence Thomas. They have some self-loathing feelings towards their own culture.

Another way you can identify a racist, is when someone says something like "_there's no way I could be racist_". Because that shows a serious ignorance about what racism is and now it manifests in our culture.

The truth is, we are ALL susceptible to absorbing racist thoughts and harboring them. It's whether we care enough to admit that to ourselves, that allows us to get past whatever prejudices we may have unconsciously absorbed.

Yes, what you said, was indeed racist. Was it "hateful"? No, not particularly. Was it infused with disrespect for people who might read "Jet" and reveal that you believe a certain stereotype of what kind of person might read "Jet"... absolutely. That's what racism is. It doesn't always have to contain HATE. Just disrespect and a tendency to make snarky remarks based on some negative stereotype you hold towards the "kind" of people that would read "Jet".


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> No, I said your comment was a passive-aggressive racist comment.
> 
> Why would my comment have to have come from "Jet" and if it had, why would that have any bearing on the legitimacy of what I said?
> 
> ...


I think you Ass u me waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy toooooooo much.


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> I think you Ass u me waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyy toooooooo much.


I think that's what people who WANT to live in denial of racism would say.

This is what "modern" racists do now. They make insinuative passive-aggressive comments, and then bat their eyelashes in disbelief in "misunderstood" they are when they are called out on their misbehavior.

There was DEFINITELY an insinuation put forth. What was the "joke" in my potentially gotten my perspective from Jet magazine? That would only be "funny" to someone who thinks there's something "funny" about Jet magazine. Jet chronicled the early days of the civil rights struggle.

Where's the "sense of humor" to be found in that??


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

VocalLisa said:


> I think that's what people who WANT to live in denial of racism would say.
> 
> This is what "modern" racists do now. They make insinuative passive-aggressive comments, and then bat their eyelashes in disbelief in "misunderstood" they are when they are called out on their misbehavior.
> 
> ...


Poor you for feeling guilty....


----------



## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Taxpayers aren't footing the whole bill because there aren't enough taxpayers to foot the bill! The problem isn't capitalism, its the corrupt crony capitalism that has taken over in this country. You don't fix that by adopting communism, socialism or fascism.


I agree with the first half of that statement, but, I disagree with the assertion that ANYONE on the Liberals is advocating the adoption of communism of fascism. Those are FoxNews key words DESIGNED to create DIS-information and prevent honest discussion.

Liberals however do believe in using OUR representative democracy/government to protect it's citizens from the Darwinism inherently contained within capitalism/un━der-fetted free market.

We can not have a productive conversation if you keep using hyperbolic terms like communism, socialism or fascism to describe liberal ideology.

In terms of throwing out the corrupt politicians, you need to accept the adage that even altruistic people often GET corrupted once given the money/power that comes with getting elected.

The only way to lessen the corruption is to get the influence of corporations and excessive money out. What SCOTUS has done, claiming that corporations have free speech rights in the same way that human beings do is a HIDEOUS assault on our democracy. And that's not even getting into how "Citizens United" compounded the problem.

We will have corrupt politicians as long as billionaires and corporations will be able to buy them off.

So, until I hear conservatives speaking out against such ideology, then I don't believe they actually want to get rid of corruption. Because they so vehemently support the mechanisms that serve to corrupt those politicians.

IMO, no candidate should be able to spend more than the other on campaigning. It should be an even playing field with the same size "megaphone" so that the citizens have EQUAL ACCESS to ALL the candidates ideas.

How can we possibly as citizens make informed decisions when certain candidate's voices are proverbially "drowned out" via the loudness of mo' money?


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## VocalLisa (Jan 4, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Knitter from Nebraska said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, but when not enough of the young, healthy people sign up you can be sure that we WILL have a single payer system. They will blame those young people ( making barely over minimum wage). They will say "we had to do it because the young people were too selfish'". Mark my words! I'm predicting it!
> ...


Besides, it turns out, young kids ARE signing up.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I checked it out. Well, you were right! However, that still begs the question: What in the world is it doing in the healthcare bill in the first place??????????? And why do we need yet another tax? Wouldn't it be better to just cut spending??????????


I am sure there are lots of things that could be done different. If the republicans ever decide to work with democrats to fix the things they don't like and improve things instead of trying to destroy the ACA and our president, then maybe something like this could be different. Republicans need to start being part of the solution instead of the problem.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I will post what I please.


And we will call you on it when you try to spread a lie.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I started by making a true statement. Bill Ayers did say he wrote Obama's book. He said it to get attention. Then later I posted the website saying it was satire.
> 
> And how long did it take before you realized it was satire. Then someone had to tell me it was satire posting the same website.
> 
> So who is reading the websites??????


You posted a lie and wanted people to believe it. Did you know it was a lie when you posted it? No I think you believed it, and then when you got called on it, then you tried to backtrack and say you knew it was satire, but if you reread what you posted, you just got caught in a lie, plain and simple. Admit it and move on.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> That is a 2 year ago link.


Yes, because it was discussed over and over and over and most people have moved on, because it hasn't changed.


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## NJG (Dec 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The first statement I heard Bill Ayers say on TV, then he laughed.


And she continues to try to cover up her own stupidity. You were very gullible and believed it and passed it on and were thrilled to do so, but you were proven wrong. Accept that fact and move on. The more you try to cover your butt, the worse you make it.


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## Crochet dreamin' (Apr 22, 2013)

I truly want to stay out of this free-for-all. But this just came across my computer. This is from a lawyer friend of mine, who also was in the state legislature here, but has since retired from that. Quotes from our beloved ACA tome.
No one is ever going to convince me this is a good thing. It's a Trojan horse or more like a sow's ear dressed up to look like a silk purse. 
Should you wish to gnaw on my carcass, please know that I will not read anything (and have not after my last post), nor will I post anything else, so have at it!

MEDICARE AT AGE 76,
IMPORTANT PLEASE READ - ANYONE WHO DOUBTS THIS IS TRUE
CAN DOWNLOAD THE NEW OBAMA CARE AND LOOK UP THE PAGES
MENTIONED. THIS IS JUST THE
BEGINNING......................PLEASE PASS THIS
OUTRAGE TO EVERYONE ON YOUR LIST!!! THIS should be
read by everyone, especially important to those over
75....... If you are younger, then it may apply to
your parents....

Your hospital Medicare
admittance has just changed under Obama Care. You must
be admitted by your primary Physician in order for
Medicare to pay for it! If you are admitted by an
emergency room doctor it is treated as outpatient care
where hospital costs are not covered. This is only the
tip of the iceberg for Obama Care. Just wait to see
what happens in this year and 2014!

YOU ARE NOT GOING TO LIKE
THIS... At age 76 when you most need it most, you are
not eligible for cancer treatment * see page 272. What
Nancy Pelosi didn't want us to know until after the
healthcare bill was passed. Remember she said, "We
have to pass the Bill so that we can see what's in
it." Well, here it is.

Obama Care Highlighted by
Page Number THE CARE BILL HB 3200 JUDGE KITHIL IS THE
2ND OFFICIAL WHO HAS OUTLINED THESE PARTS OF THE CARE
BILL. Judge Kithil of Marble Falls , TX -
highlighted the most egregious pages of HB3200 Please
read this....... especially the reference to pages 58
& 59 JUDGE KITHIL wrote: 
** Page
50/section 152: The bill will provide insurance to all
non-U.S. residents, even if they are here
illegally.

** Page 58 and 59: The
government will have real-time access to an
individual's bank account and will have the authority
to make electronic fund transfers from those
accounts.

** Page 65/section 164: The
plan will be subsidized (by the government) for all
union members, union retirees and for community
organizations (such as the Association of Community
Organizations for Reform Now - ACORN)

** Page 203/line 14-15: The
tax imposed under this section will not be treated as
a tax. (How could anybody in their right mind come up
with that?)

** Page 241 and 253: Doctors
will all be paid the same regardless of specialty, and
the government will set all doctors' fees.

This is what they do in
Sweden too. I know because Alf's daughter Ann is an
OBGYN, and her husband, Thorsten, is a
surgeon.........

** Page 272. section 1145:
Cancer hospital will ration care according to the
patient's age.

** Page 317 and 321: The
government will impose a prohibition on hospital
expansion; however, communities may petition for an
exception.

** Page 425, line 4-12: The
government mandates advance-care planning
consultations. Those on
Social Security will be required to attend an
"end-of-life planning" seminar every five years.
(Death counseling..)

** Page 429, line 13-25: The
government will specify which doctors can write an
end-of-life order.

HAD ENOUGH???? Judge Kithil then goes on to
identify: "Finally,
it is specifically stated that this bill will
notapply to members of
Congress.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisa said:


> I think that's what people who WANT to live in denial of racism would say.
> 
> This is what "modern" racists do now. They make insinuative passive-aggressive comments, and then bat their eyelashes in disbelief in "misunderstood" they are when they are called out on their misbehavior.
> 
> ...


     No humor at all. Serious topics deserve serious consideration.


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## Janet Cooke (Aug 14, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I truly want to stay out of this free-for-all. But this just came across my computer. This is from a lawyer friend of mine, who also was in the state legislature here, but has since retired from that. Quotes from our beloved ACA tome.
> No one is ever going to convince me this is a good thing. It's a Trojan horse or more like a sow's ear dressed up to look like a silk purse.
> Should you wish to gnaw on my carcass, please know that I will not read anything (and have not after my last post), nor will I post anything else, so have at it!
> 
> ...


If you call that person a friend you really should double check your list of enemies.
This piece of garbage has been debunked so many times it should be returned to Serta.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very interesting thoughts Lisa. Thanks for posting.



VocalLisa said:


> I agree with the first half of that statement, but, I disagree with the assertion that ANYONE on the Liberals is advocating the adoption of communism of fascism. Those are FoxNews key words DESIGNED to create DIS-information and prevent honest discussion.
> 
> Liberals however do believe in using OUR representative democracy/government to protect it's citizens from the Darwinism inherently contained within capitalism/un━der-fetted free market.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Kindly verify sources, besides your friend, for this information. It is not unusual for nice folks to be scammed with misinformation. Thanks.



Crochet dreamin' said:


> I truly want to stay out of this free-for-all. But this just came across my computer. This is from a lawyer friend of mine, who also was in the state legislature here, but has since retired from that. Quotes from our beloved ACA tome.
> No one is ever going to convince me this is a good thing. It's a Trojan horse or more like a sow's ear dressed up to look like a silk purse.
> Should you wish to gnaw on my carcass, please know that I will not read anything (and have not after my last post), nor will I post anything else, so have at it!
> 
> ...


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## gjz (Dec 2, 2013)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I truly want to stay out of this free-for-all. But this just came across my computer. This is from a lawyer friend of mine, who also was in the state legislature here, but has since retired from that. Quotes from our beloved ACA tome.
> No one is ever going to convince me this is a good thing. It's a Trojan horse or more like a sow's ear dressed up to look like a silk purse.
> Should you wish to gnaw on my carcass, please know that I will not read anything (and have not after my last post), nor will I post anything else, so have at it!
> 
> ...


Hmmm...I'm sure you won't sway an opinions, unfortunately. Many will call it fear mongering and just pass it by. Congress should be mandated to participate, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Many people are blinded and refuse to see that the goal of ACA is to take a little bit more of your choice away. People think, " it doesn't pertain to me, I don't care". You should care, one day it will affect all of us...not always towards the good.


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## ginalola (Mar 31, 2011)

My my some people are so sensitive. Walk a mile in my moccasins vocal person


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## Joan Thelma (Nov 18, 2011)

Crochet dreamin' said:


> I.......MEDICARE AT AGE 76,
> I took "early" retirement at the age of 62 fifteen years ago and started receiving SS Retirement benefits. What is the "early" retirement age now?
> 
> IMPORTANT PLEASE READ - ANYONE WHO DOUBTS THIS IS TRUE
> ...


RESPONSE: Why not? They are the ones that passed this ObamaCare pkg.!!!!!!


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