# Ravelry explains



## hazelroselooms (Oct 19, 2016)

Since we shared our new No Trump policy we have received an overwhelming amount of feedback, encouragement, love, and expressions of solidarity, and we are truly grateful. Many of you have asked us about making donations to Ravelry. Thank you so much for thinking of this, but the best way to support us is by supporting Ravelry designers, dyers, advertisers, and shops, particularly those run by people who are black, indigenous, people of color, members of the LGBTQ+ community, disabled crafters, those who belong to otherwise marginalized communities, and those who are speaking out on justice and equality issues to effect change. If you are specifically moved to donate, rather than making a donation to us we would like to suggest contributing to RAICES Texas, or finding an organization local to you that is doing anti-racism work or meeting the needs of the LGBTQ+ members of your community or other marginalized groups.

New Features and Policies
For over 10 years, we've had a hate speech policy on Ravelry, and our No Trump Support policy is an extension of that. Our definition of hate speech is as follows: Hate Speech and Hateful Imagery Words, phrases, or images deemed by Ravelry's owners to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, gender, socio-economic class, or with reference to physical health or mental health, are not allowed.

Everyone on Ravelry's staff is committed to continually improving our site and making our community safer. We all realize this is an ongoing process and we have work to do.

In January, we created all new tools to make sure that we 1) can easily organize and handle the things that are reported to us and 2) notice repeat offenders and take action. We previously managed all of that with email, and this is a big improvement, but not enough. We have now decided to stop hosting groups with moderators who harbor or disregard users who repeatedly violate our community guidelines. We are starting by closing existing groups that have historically had repeat violations of those guidelines.

If you see a profile, pattern, or forum post that violates our guidelines, you can anonymously flag it to report it to Ravelry staff. We will continue improving our reporting features and our behind-the-scenes systems for handling problems.

Some Ravelers have shared with us that marginalized people felt unsafe because groups with a history of hate speech violations were allowed to remain on the site. To you, we would like to say that we're sorry, and you will see us continue to improve Ravelry's safety.

Moving Forward Together
This year, the greater fiber community has been having long-overdue conversations about diversity, racism, homophobia, size inclusion, disability awareness, and equity.

We want to recognize - and join in on - the praise we've seen for the BIPOC, LGBTQ+, disabled, and body-positive members of Ravelry who have been speaking out and making a positive difference. We are grateful for your labor, knowledge, willingness to share your lived experiences, and courage to demand changes to our site, the fiber community's culture, and the world at large. Please know that we appreciate and thank you for your work!

We would be grateful if all Ravelers would join us in making our community more safe, just, and fun; especially if you identify as an ally, please help make our community safer for our fellow Ravelers who are part of marginalized groups. Above all else, please continue to enjoy Ravelry, connect with other Ravelers, and celebrate your love of yarn! We have so many great things planned for our future and we're excited to share them with you.


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## MrsMurdog (Apr 16, 2013)

They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


I totally agree! And now they're just digging their hole deeper.


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## yarnobsession (Sep 21, 2012)

So proud of Ravelry and their inclusiveness to all except hate. So agree that hateful speech should never be part of our crafting community. Love of our craft should rule our thoughts, hearts and speech


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve. 

Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live. 

I fear the end of democracy in the US. The president's military extravaganza for the 4th of July allies him with dictators the world over. I fear that this country will soon throw people into concentration camps (it's already doing that to refugees), into shtetls, and kill them. (The police killings of African Americans are rampant.)

Thank you for taking a stand as we watch the "failing" United States go down the drain. You are a sign of hope in an apocalyptic world.

Hazel


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## farmlady (Apr 15, 2017)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


Really! Just what could they say that you would not consider hate speech unless it praised trump?
Don't like it , ignore it and go about your way.


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## Knitting in the Rockys (Aug 17, 2015)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


Your definition of hate speech and mine are apparently very different. I see NO hate speech in their message at all. Quite the opposite actually.


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## yarnobsession (Sep 21, 2012)

If you feel it is hateful, you are free to leave Ravelry and this site. Our definitions of hateful speech are very different. We love our craft and the people that engage in it - there is no room for negative thought or speech.


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

The president is a public figure, to criticize his policies is allowed in this country. It isn't hate speech. He's just too thin skinned to take it.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


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## Nanknit (Mar 2, 2013)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


Very well said. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing". Jen.


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## books (Jan 11, 2013)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that his is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before th election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless moron who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's the conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


Wow! Tell us what you really think! :sm24:


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## ChasingRainbows (May 12, 2012)

Ravelry's statement is NOT hate speech, it's a stand for politeness, acceptance, and civility towards everyone, regardless of who they are, what they look like, what they believe, and how they live their private lives.

HATE speech is insults, name calling, spreading lies and gossip about individuals, religious groups, ethnic groups, and other marginalized peoples. It's usually based on ignorance of those who know little about the people they hate. 

It's not new in our society, but it has become rampant because of the widespread use of the internet. In the early days of mass immigration to the US, immigrants were marginalized, lived in ghettos, were refused jobs and housing, and generally hated by the immigrants who got to the US first. But, it was limited to the neighborhoods or cities or the workplace. Now, anyone with a computer or smart phone can spread hatred far and wide, anonymously. That brings out the cowards, the closet bigots.

If you ever look at some of the anonymous postings on any website where a person creates a screen ID instead of using his/her own name, you will see the nastiness come out. The anonymity of the internet gives free rein to bullies to spout their bigotry, call people names, throw insults - things they would not do in a face-to-face situation. It's easy to be nasty when hiding behind a screen name, and have no fear of repurcussions. 

I applaud Ravelry's stand, and wish that other public forums would do the same. Even Facebook allows members to report groups and individual posts, and the administrator of the group has the option to remove inflammatory posts and abusive groups.

Why do those opposed to Ravelry's position not complain about Facebook's policy?


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## possumlj (Nov 26, 2018)

Thank you Ravelry


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## Nanknit (Mar 2, 2013)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


Me Too, but we have to get back to sanity first. It is a mystery to me how any woman can support a man who brags that because he is a "celebrity" (and this is only in his own mind - game show host, really?) - that he can grab her by her p***y. I can't even write it, but he stood there with his chest puffed out and acted like this was something to brag about...what a shameful disgrace. No real man would speak that way about women...he has no respect, ZERO! Not to mention that he has cheated on all 3 of his wives.


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## MrsMurdog (Apr 16, 2013)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> Your definition of hate speech and mine are apparently very different. I see NO hate speech in their message at all. Quite the opposite actually.


Well, back in the old days, any time you picked out any one segment of society to attack it was considered hate speech. I do realize that now a days, anyone who is not of the same mind is okay to attack.


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## Grannie Sandy (Jan 13, 2014)

yarnobsession said:


> So proud of Ravelry and their inclusiveness to all except hate. So agree that hateful speech should never be part of our crafting community. Love of our craft should rule our thoughts, hearts and speech


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: Well said! :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: Thank you. :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Cookiecat (Jan 20, 2014)

Well said. Ignoring the fact a majority of Americans (who voted for Trump) are considered "white supremacists" and silenced on Ravelry (their supporters would NEVER understand how wrong it is unless it were THEIR candidate and views were banned!) Liberal fascism is apparently invisible to them. Ravelry's further improvements? A better method of SPYING and calling out other Rav members. TDS overpowering some people's logical thinking and ethics.


MrsMurdog said:


> Well, back in the old days, any time you picked out any one segment of society to attack it was considered hate speech. I do realize that now a days, anyone who is not of the same mind is okay to attack.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

MrsMurdog said:


> Well, back in the old days, any time you picked out any one segment of society to attack it was considered hate speech. I do realize that now a days, anyone who is not of the same mind is okay to attack.


You have misunderstood this entire Ravelry policy. 
If you think that Ravelry is being unfair to some trump supporters who use hate speech on Ravelry or who post patterns, projects or who post in forums, then you are the one who is in the wrong. Do you think it is perfectly all right for such people to bring their hate into Ravelry? They already have, and that is why Ravelry has decided to take a stand against such speech, in any form.

And I would guess that you are a trump supporter, or you wouldn't have injected to Ravelry's policy. Many of trump's supporters have expressed their hate or mistrust of anyone who isn't white. We have them here on KP, especially in the Solarium section.
Ravelry has just said, in effect, "enough of that--we can't support a president who has demonstrated his racism in numerous "dog whistle" comments on Twitter and at his rallies." Apparently they find that allowing support for trump on their site is offensive, and so do many of Ravelry's members.

Their statement clearly stated that trump supporters and conservatives in general are still welcome on Ravelry, but not to promote a president who is a racist. Among other things.


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## Margit (Mar 28, 2013)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


Stand up to hate? in the next sentence you call Trump a moron, unfit for office of the President of the USA. You call him an idiot, Obama was the one who made these cages and it is still in use today. Useless wall?? come on he is not opposed to people coming in DO IT LEGALLY!!! It seems to me that you are a hate monger calling our President a conman, a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar and a disgrace. If this isnt a hate speech I dont know what is. I think as Americans we need to stand by our President and pray for his guidance. God help President Trump he is fighting an uphill battle. Political subjects do not need to be on a knitting site, go spew your venom somewhere else and this is just not directed to you pattibe but to all those people who write derogatory comments to our President.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

Margit said:


> Stand up to hate? in the next sentence you call Trump a moron, unfit for office of the President of the USA. You call him an idiot, Obama was the one who made these cages and it is still in use today. Useless wall?? come on he is not opposed to people coming in DO IT LEGALLY!!! It seems to me that you are a hate monger calling our President a conman, a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar and a disgrace. If this isnt a hate speech I dont know what is. I think as Americans we need to stand by our President and pray for his guidance. God help President Trump he is fighting an uphill battle. Political subjects do not need to be on a knitting site, go spew your venom somewhere else and this is just not directed to you pattibe but to all those people who write derogatory comments to our President.


Your president maybe, NEVER mine or anyone else I know. If you were one of the thousands of people he cheated out of their money on his fake trump university - never an accredited "university" or one of the many contractors, stockholders or employees he cheated out of millions of dollars when he declared bankruptcy and left them holding the bag, you would be singing a different tune right now. No one but trump could bankrupt not only one but two casinos, literally destroying Atlantic City...and the crook just walked away. Love him if you want..as his third wife (you know the one he cheated on with a porn star) so aptly put it on the back of her jacket, I don't care.


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## plumhurricane (Dec 9, 2012)

Writing derogatory comments is called freedom of speech. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. One of the first things dictators do is to muzzle the press & clamp down on people expressing their opinions


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

pattibe said:


> Your president maybe, NEVER mine or anyone else I know. If you were one of the thousands of people he cheated out of their money on his fake trump university - never an accredited "university" or one of the many contractors, stockholders or employees he cheated out of millions of dollars when he declared bankruptcy and left them holding the bag, you would be singing a different tune right now. No one but trump could bankrupt not only one but two casinos, literally destroying Atlantic City...and the crook just walked away. Love him if you want..as his third wife (you know the one he cheated on with a porn star) so aptly put it on the back of her jacket, I don't care.


And there are all those women who accuse trump of sexual offenses, including rape. He is a thug! And he ridiculed Bill Clinton about the three women who were his accusers?! This pig of a president has over 20 accusers, and his supporters make excuses for him and accuse those 20 women if lying!!!

He has continued to withhold funds to Puerto Rico because "they didn't vote for him." But he was too stupid to know that Puerto Ricans can't vote for any president, and apparently did not know that they are citizens of the US.

He has continued to insult John McCain even after death, because he is jealous of McCain's war hero status.

He drags his greedy stupid children to events for actual world leaders, and he dragged them all with him when he had a state visit with the Queen. His trashy offspring acted like it was a trip to Disneyland, posing for photos around every corner. They contribute exactly NOTHING to these occasions, and actually detract attention away from more important issues.

He hobnobs with brutal dictators, slobbering all over them like an overly bashful dog who rolls over wagging its tail and then pees itself.

And so much more!!

He doesn't have the foggiest idea what he's doing! He's like a five-year-old who gets up in the morning to play "The President Game." All he knows about being a president is what he sees on TV.


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> Your definition of hate speech and mine are apparently very different. I see NO hate speech in their message at all. Quite the opposite actually.


You don't find claiming that everyone who supports Trump is a white supremacist to be hateful?!


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

knitbin said:


> You don't find claiming that everyone who supports Trump is a white supremacist to be hateful?!


A white supremacist is one who believes the white race is superior to all others and/or should be the ones in control over other races. 
This point of view is quite common. Sometimes it's not a conscious thought, such as, "I'm better than black people," but it can manifest itself in the way the person acts. For example: Someone who sees a black person in a store as someone who would be more likely to shoplift than a white person. A black person in the yard of his own expensive home, being interrogated by white cops because he "didn't seem to belong." White people who check out of a hotel because they saw only black people at the pool. A teacher assuming that the black kids in her class weren't as smart as the white kids, so she gives them less challenging work. White people who don't vote for a black sheriff, mayor or other offuce. People who didn't think we should have had a black president. Seeing a black woman with a white child and assuming the child was kidnapped, and calling the police.*
That sort of thing.

*This actually happened to the black caregiver of my severely autistic white granddaughter. She took Amelia to the grocery store to pick up some snacks for her. Amelia wanted too many snacks, and when her caregiver said no to Amelia, she had a tantrum in the store. While the caregiver was trying to settle her down, two random people called the police! They came, and the caregiver explained the situation and that was the end of it. But can you imagine being humiliated like that? What if it was a white caregiver? Would those people have called the police?

If you see yourself in any of those scenarios, or others like them, then you do believe whites are superior. You are a white supremacist. Regardless of your indignant protests to the contrary.


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## pattibe (Feb 2, 2012)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> And there are all those women who accuse trump of sexual offenses, including rape. He is a thug! And he ridiculed Bill Clinton about the three women who were his accusers?! This pig of a president has over 20 accusers, and his supporters make excuses for him and accuse those 20 women if lying!!!
> 
> He has continued to withhold funds to Puerto Rico because "they didn't vote for him." But he was too stupid to know that Puerto Ricans can't vote for any president, and apparently did not know that they are citizens of the US.
> 
> ...


OMG Beachgirl...you and I must be sisters separated at birth. You just said exactly everything I was thinking. trump supporters don't care that this racist womanizer is a totally unqualified psychopath with the mentality of a 2 year old; they don't care that he has commited treason. He hates the people they hate; he puts his seal of approval on their racism and bigotry and they love him for it. This, sadly will never change. If I have learned one thing over the past 2 painful years, it is that you can educate the ignorant, but you cannot argue with or reason with stupid, and that is just a fact.


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> A white supremacist is one who believes the white race is superior to all others and/or should be the ones in control over other races.
> This point of view is quite common. Sometimes it's not a conscious thought, such as, "I'm better than black people," but it can manifest itself in the way the person acts. For example: Someone who sees a black person in a store as someone who would be more likely to shoplift than a white person. A black person in the yard of his own expensive home, being interrogated by white cops because he "didn't seem to belong." White people who check out of a hotel because they saw only black people at the pool. A teacher assuming that the black kids in her class weren't as smart as the white kids, so she gives them less challenging work. White people who don't vote for a black sheriff, mayor or other offuce. People who didn't think we should have had a black president. Seeing a black woman with a white child and assuming the child was kidnapped, and calling the police.*
> That sort of thing.
> 
> ...


And I'd have to assume that all liberals and those with dark skin are perfect and have never done anything in their lives that wasn't perfect. They haven't attacked others in riots, they haven't broken the law, they haven't made incorrect assumptions about other people, and they surely haven't considered that there may be two sides to every issue. The world isn't perfect! But that certainly doesn't mean that everyone that disagrees with you is a bad person. I could just as easily classify everyone who doesn't have my view all in the same bucket, but I don't. I'd rather take the higher ground and judge everyone as an individual, and not as a member of a group. Enough said.


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## Beachgirl1000 (Sep 29, 2015)

knitbin said:


> And I'd have to assume that all liberals and those with dark skin are perfect and have never done anything in their lives that wasn't perfect. They haven't attacked others in riots, they haven't broken the law, they haven't made incorrect assumptions about other people, and they surely haven't considered that there may be two sides to every issue. The world isn't perfect! But that certainly doesn't mean that everyone that disagrees with you is a bad person. I could just as easily classify everyone who doesn't have my view all in the same bucket, but I don't. I'd rather take the higher ground and judge everyone as an individual, and not as a member of a group. Enough said.


Assuming that I think that all black people are perfect and have never done anything wrong is quite a leap from my post explaining white supremacy! It's a common way of replying when someone is angry about hearing the truth.

And I have never said that I everyone who disagrees with me is a bad person.

Perhaps your defensiveness means that I hit a nerve.

FYI, I live in an area where we have a very large black population. Some commit crimes and end up on the local news in the evening, some lead exemplary lives. That is true of white people, too.

I grew up here in the 50s and 60s, and I grew up around racists. I've heard all the stereotypes and the so-called "dog whistle" phraseology. I know racism when I see it.


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> Assuming that I think that all black people are perfect and have never done anything wrong is quite a leap from my post explaining white supremacy! It's a common way of replying when someone is angry about hearing the truth.
> 
> And I have never said that I everyone who disagrees with me is a bad person.
> 
> ...


You're so off base, and I find that very sad. You're condemning many kind and wonderful people by insisting on classifying them. Go back to what I said...my opinion of a person is based on their actions and, hopefully, their heart, not on their color. I would much rather associate with a person of color than a white person with a bad attitude. There seem to be a bunch of those around the knitting groups these days, just trying to pick a fight. I refuse to fight with you, and will leave you to your own thoughts.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


Well said Hazel.


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


Can't add anything to that. 
:sm24:


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

They aren't the ones who are confused. Some of the trump supporters are so hate filled they cannot see how warped they are. Not all - there are some people who support trump with whom I disagree, but who are cordial and sincere in the way they explain their reasons for their political views. But others bully, use ugly names, play the blame game deflecting to irrelevant people who have no political impact at this time. Just nasty and insulting.


MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


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## Bandy01 (Jan 8, 2013)

Beachgirl1000 said:


> And there are all those women who accuse trump of sexual offenses, including rape. He is a thug! And he ridiculed Bill Clinton about the three women who were his accusers?! This pig of a president has over 20 accusers, and his supporters make excuses for him and accuse those 20 women if lying!!!
> 
> He has continued to withhold funds to Puerto Rico because "they didn't vote for him." But he was too stupid to know that Puerto Ricans can't vote for any president, and apparently did not know that they are citizens of the US.
> 
> ...


There is so much bad information you have been given.

First of all, in your first comment, the word ACCUSED is very important. Most of the women who came out to accuse him have been proven as false. They are doing anything they can to discredit him. Check the REAL facts. The rest I'm sure are being checked out. It's a witch hunt. You can't believe everything you read or everything you hear.

Do research, please. Our economy is doing better than it has in years. I think you have Trump confused with Obama. He's the one that bowed to a Muslim leader and probably peed himself with glee, not Trump.

I know many companies from the US that went to Puerto Rico to help. Please read and research more than CNN.

John McCain wasn't exactly a war hero. I thought so too for the longest time. Turns out I was wrong. He sold out. Please check.

I'm not going to go line for line. These are just a few of the reasons people need to research. If Jussie Smollett would have got away with his scam, it would probably be used to discredit Trump too. So many lies going around.

He's not perfect, no one is, but our country is doing much better economically and with other countries than it did with Obama, the golden one. I want a flag waving President who says the Pledge of Allegiance to this once great country of ours.


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## Beverooni (Apr 15, 2013)

What happens when he's elected again? Where are all the good, honorable politicians? Are there any?


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


....I also thank Ravelry for their "grand stand" against an idiotic president....
....your statement says it all.....it was greaaaaaat.......!!!!!


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## klrober (Mar 20, 2013)

Bandy01 said:


> There is so much bad information you have been given.
> 
> First of all, in your first comment, the word ACCUSED is very important. Most of the women who came out to accuse him have been proven as false. They are doing anything they can to discredit him. Check the REAL facts. The rest I'm sure are being checked out. It's a witch hunt. You can't believe everything you read or everything you hear.
> 
> ...


.....the economy has been doing very well now for 10 years.....most of the credit goes to Obama not your Orange Blob.....
....the Blob wouldn't know the words.....


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

Bandy01 said:


> There is so much bad information you have been given.
> 
> First of all, in your first comment, the word ACCUSED is very important. Most of the women who came out to accuse him have been proven as false. They are doing anything they can to discredit him. Check the REAL facts. The rest I'm sure are being checked out. It's a witch hunt. You can't believe everything you read or everything you hear.
> 
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

klrober said:


> .....the economy has been doing very well now for 10 years.....most of the credit goes to Obama not your Orange Blob.....
> ....the Blob wouldn't know the words.....


Oh my goodness, do you ever need to do some research! :sm06: :sm06: :sm06:


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## yarnobsession (Sep 21, 2012)

You should be removed for your hateful comments. Have researched a lot and most of what is said is true. You obviously have not researched. I would start with the 2097/2008 stock market crash and corporate buyout. Obama brought the country out of a recession and put many good policies in place. And note that the economy is not the stockmarket. His lawyer is in jail for the "pay to be quiet" to Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniel's- ordered by Trump. Trump had undone all of the good policies by Obama - big game hunting, taking parks out of reservation area to be used for mining and drilling- allowing all genders I to the military if they can pass the tests. He enacted the family separation policy and put babies in cages - a lot of them privately run facilities owned by Trumps friends- charging 750 dollars a night - gossip no - actual research, online, newspapers, news media. So please, before you say anything further that is ugly and untrue and if you are advising not to believe what we read and hear Trumps words - then you and we have totally lost our way and agree with lying, cheating, not obeying the rule of law and not complying to lawful subpoenas - acting like a fool overseas. Please do some homework! And I am not abiding by the rules by talking politics on a site that is just for crafters as is Ravelry. Take your hatred elsewhere.


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## knitbin (Aug 10, 2011)

yarnobsession said:


> You should be removed for your hateful comments. Have researched a lot and most of what is said is true. You obviously have not researched. I would start with the 2097/2008 stock market crash and corporate buyout. Obama brought the country out of a recession and put many good policies in place. And note that the economy is not the stockmarket. His lawyer is in jail for the "pay to be quiet" to Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniel's- ordered by Trump. Trump had undone all of the good policies by Obama - big game hunting, taking parks out of reservation area to be used for mining and drilling- allowing all genders I to the military if they can pass the tests. He enacted the family separation policy and put babies in cages - a lot of them privately run facilities owned by Trumps friends- charging 750 dollars a night - gossip no - actual research, online, newspapers, news media. So please, before you say anything further that is ugly and untrue and if you are advising not to believe what we read and hear Trumps words - then you and we have totally lost our way and agree with lying, cheating, not obeying the rule of law and not complying to lawful subpoenas - acting like a fool overseas. Please do some homework! And I am not abiding by the rules by talking politics on a site that is just for crafters as is Ravelry. Take your hatred elsewhere.


And with this, I'll leave the discussion. Just one example: https://americanmilitarynews.com/2019/06/obamas-ice-chief-illegal-immigrant-cages-were-built-by-the-obama-administration/


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## Ashenlachie (Dec 3, 2011)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


Well said.

I am proud to be a Raveller and appreciate fully their stance.


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## yarnobsession (Sep 21, 2012)

Yes they were but never used except for unaccompanied migrants who went into the foster system quickly. Never used to house babies, or young children. Do your homework. Over and out! Ignorance is not bliss. It is foolish to the extreme


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Beautiful words from Ravelry, a good strong statement of acceptable rules of behaviour in civilized society, these are the common core values of most societies on this planet. 

Bravo.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

pattibe said:


> Me Too, but we have to get back to sanity first. It is a mystery to me how any woman can support a man who brags that because he is a "celebrity" (and this is only in his own mind - game show host, really?) - that he can grab her by her p***y. I can't even write it, but he stood there with his chest puffed out and acted like this was something to brag about...what a shameful disgrace. No real man would speak that way about women...he has no respect, ZERO! Not to mention that he has cheated on all 3 of his wives.


Indeed, he is hardly the poster boy for decent moral behaviour or the advertisement for family values, deceny, wisdom, love, etc etc he is in fact quite the opposite and people put him on a pedestal, fall down and worship him as if if were God.


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## Bedo (Jun 4, 2018)

Hazel you could not said it better. Your writting was beautiful and very well said. All Trump is doing is having a 4th of July for political reasons and acting like a dictator that he is He already selling our nation to North and Korea and Russia. I not be watching this TV tomorrow. I going to be watching a Hallmark movie and then going to a party. Happy 4th of July. ????????????


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## Bandy01 (Jan 8, 2013)

Bandy01


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## Bedo (Jun 4, 2018)

Amen. You said it all


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## Bandy01 (Jan 8, 2013)

The hateful comments I see don't seem to be coming from the conservatives... Enjoy your delusions. I'm out.


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


"All *inclusive* EXCEPT for the *excluded*, but hey! That's okay when we decide to call you "white supremacists" the same way Antifa calls everyone "a Nazi", because we're so very moral.


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## NanaFran (Apr 9, 2011)

I think your "fiber community" should stick to just that--fiber community (NOT any kind of politics or controversial subjects).


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

Uh, yeah! Calling half the citizens white supremacists is ever so loving and...and...and superior! Never mind about those marginalized citizens that think differently, they don't count because we've determined that they are ALL "white supremacists".


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


America won't come back, it's almost gone now. Gone to Marxism. I've seen this in one country after another. We just haven't got to the part where mass murder is called a virtue (unless it's a baby in utero, they're fair game.)


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## PPCorella (Sep 29, 2012)

I for one will not use Ravelry. This is against the President, not hate speech. And when an organization takes a political stand, that's when I leave. And you are supporting the other side. If they had said they would not support the Democrats, I would leave as well. Because maybe next month you would decide not to support Italians, or Irish or Jews or Blacks, or whomever. When you think of what all the Democrats have done with regard to physically and verbally attacking Trump supporters, I don't know why you even take a stand. Just last week a journalist was beaten in Portland, Oregon. The Sanders family was forced to leave a restaurant. Candice Owens and her friend were forced to leave a restaurant in Philadelphia. A man called Tucker Carlson's teenage daughter a whore and a f***ing c***. The man's membership at the country club where the event took place has his membership revoked. A teenage boy wearing a MAGA hat had water thrown at his face and had his hat stolen. One of Trump's sons had a waitress spit in his face. And two years ago at a baseball game in Virginia a Congressman, and two other players were shot. The shooter meant to kill them. Of course, the people shot were Republicans. The list is endless. Talk about hate. It seems the Democrats are the ones spewing all the hate. And by the way in the event I have selective memory, remind me of all the Republicans who spew hate at Democrats by performing any abusive act. And so if I SAY I support Trump, that is not acceptable? And Ravelry, please ban me from your site. I will not use it. And you are the ones spewing hate. And all you are is a bunch of sore losers. Move on. Hillary lost the election. And I cannot believe that there are still so many Trump haters out there after looking at what he has done with the economy and jobs. And along with his daughter starting a new program so that kids who may not want to go to college can learn a trade such as plumbing or electrician. I don't know about you, but I do not know a poor plumber or electrician. Go ahead Mr. Trump. You've got my vote in 2020. And if anyone in Ravelry is reading this, please, please ban me from your site. I wish there was a way that I could un-join. Have a nice day everyone.


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## barbaralbb2119 (Sep 18, 2015)

Nanknit said:


> Very well said. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing". Jen.


I was just remembering that same quote from Edmund Burke, over 200 years ago. I also like this one "I always want to be known for what I'm for more than what I'm against. I believe in positivity, in goodness, in giving momentum to the good, while giving silence to the bad." Althea Mshar. 
I think Ravelry is giving momentum the good and I support that You can read Althea Mshar's whole article, here: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-only-thing-necessary-for-the-triumph-of-evil_b_57fbee16e4b090dec0e71a56?guccounter=1


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm confused. How is support for the President of the United States considered hate speech? I'm not a fan, but I know many fine people who are, so we just agree to disagree.


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## PPCorella (Sep 29, 2012)

Yes, that is what I would like to know. It's not hate. It's just that the moderators of Ravelry probably hate him, so they made up an excuse. I think they should stick to what they do best, and that is crafting. And I have never read anything on their site pro or con politically, so I don't know where that came up. All I ever saw on their sites were patterns, and please correct me if I am wrong.


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## lindakaren12 (Dec 16, 2011)

I dumped Ravelry. We have many other choices which don't involve political garbage, hate, whatever. Enough is enough


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## D0r15 (Jul 30, 2018)

What hypocrisy!!! No freedom of speech here. Disgraceful . People like that will destroy the country..


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## PPCorella (Sep 29, 2012)

I agree with you both lindakaren12 and DOr15. I saw nothing like this when Obama was president. Move on.


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## Rosewood11 (Jan 25, 2011)

They made their choice, and I've made mine!!!


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## kathleenTC (Mar 14, 2011)

Good for you Ravelry. I agree that there is no room for support of someone who spews hatred for so many. I will continue to use Ravelry and know they are contributing to building a loving, accepting world instead of a world filled with hatred.


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## talulakat (Jan 22, 2016)

Some people need to refresh their knowledge on the meaning of hate.
By refusing to allow hate speech that is all that spews from trump and many trump loyalists it is doing a service to the community. What is hateful about calling out what is truly hate speech? Since you don't like hate speech it is hard to understand your loyalty to the most hateful speaker of all.
Those that wish to continue the hate speech will leave which is their right no one is making them stay. Watching Fox news and just about any right-wing group should provide those that wish to participate in hate speech plenty of platform.
FYI calling out hate speech is not hateful its shining a light on the hate and showing it for what it is.


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## tygereye (Sep 1, 2016)

It is so simple get rid of the politics on the site by sticking to the actual site description. It is not a forum for a debate its a forum for knitting and crocheting. I still haven't been back and deleted my bookmarks.


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## chemknitter (Feb 5, 2014)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


Well said.


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## dv802 (Aug 4, 2013)

PPCorella said:


> I for one will not use Ravelry. This is against the President, not hate speech. And when an organization takes a political stand, that's when I leave. And you are supporting the other side. If they had said they would not support the Democrats, I would leave as well. Because maybe next month you would decide not to support Italians, or Irish or Jews or Blacks, or whomever. When you think of what all the Democrats have done with regard to physically and verbally attacking Trump supporters, I don't know why you even take a stand. Just last week a journalist was beaten in Portland, Oregon. The Sanders family was forced to leave a restaurant. Candice Owens and her friend were forced to leave a restaurant in Philadelphia. A man called Tucker Carlson's teenage daughter a whore and a f***ing c***. The man's membership at the country club where the event took place has his membership revoked. A teenage boy wearing a MAGA hat had water thrown at his face and had his hat stolen. One of Trump's sons had a waitress spit in his face. And two years ago at a baseball game in Virginia a Congressman, and two other players were shot. The shooter meant to kill them. Of course, the people shot were Republicans. The list is endless. Talk about hate. It seems the Democrats are the ones spewing all the hate. And by the way in the event I have selective memory, remind me of all the Republicans who spew hate at Democrats by performing any abusive act. And so if I SAY I support Trump, that is not acceptable? And Ravelry, please ban me from your site. I will not use it. And you are the ones spewing hate. And all you are is a bunch of sore losers. Move on. Hillary lost the election. And I cannot believe that there are still so many Trump haters out there after looking at what he has done with the economy and jobs. And along with his daughter starting a new program so that kids who may not want to go to college can learn a trade such as plumbing or electrician. I don't know about you, but I do not know a poor plumber or electrician. Go ahead Mr. Trump. You've got my vote in 2020. And if anyone in Ravelry is reading this, please, please ban me from your site. I wish there was a way that I could un-join. Have a nice day everyone.


There is a way to "un-join" Ravelry. Delete your account- easy peasy.


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## dv802 (Aug 4, 2013)

PPCorella said:


> Yes, that is what I would like to know. It's not hate. It's just that the moderators of Ravelry probably hate him, so they made up an excuse. I think they should stick to what they do best, and that is crafting. And I have never read anything on their site pro or con politically, so I don't know where that came up. All I ever saw on their sites were patterns, and please correct me if I am wrong.


Just because you didn't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There are thousands of individual groups on Ravelry and unless you belong to every single one of them, you have no idea what is being said in them.


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## hapb46 (Aug 3, 2018)

My goodnesss...you said exactly what I was thinking. Thank you


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## dv802 (Aug 4, 2013)

D0r15 said:


> What hypocrisy!!! No freedom of speech here. Disgraceful . People like that will destroy the country..


????
Freedom of Speech only protects you from the government taking actions against you for what you say. 
Ravelry is a private entity. They can create and enforce their own rules. Just like the bakeries that refuse service to Gay and Lesbian couples. Or the yarn store owner that refused to sell pink yarn to anybody that was knitting the pink pussy hats.


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## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

PPCorella said:


> I for one will not use Ravelry. This is against the President, not hate speech. And when an organization takes a political stand, that's when I leave. And you are supporting the other side. If they had said they would not support the Democrats, I would leave as well. Because maybe next month you would decide not to support Italians, or Irish or Jews or Blacks, or whomever. When you think of what all the Democrats have done with regard to physically and verbally attacking Trump supporters, I don't know why you even take a stand. Just last week a journalist was beaten in Portland, Oregon. The Sanders family was forced to leave a restaurant. Candice Owens and her friend were forced to leave a restaurant in Philadelphia. A man called Tucker Carlson's teenage daughter a whore and a f***ing c***. The man's membership at the country club where the event took place has his membership revoked. A teenage boy wearing a MAGA hat had water thrown at his face and had his hat stolen. One of Trump's sons had a waitress spit in his face. And two years ago at a baseball game in Virginia a Congressman, and two other players were shot. The shooter meant to kill them. Of course, the people shot were Republicans. The list is endless. Talk about hate. It seems the Democrats are the ones spewing all the hate. And by the way in the event I have selective memory, remind me of all the Republicans who spew hate at Democrats by performing any abusive act. And so if I SAY I support Trump, that is not acceptable? And Ravelry, please ban me from your site. I will not use it. And you are the ones spewing hate. And all you are is a bunch of sore losers. Move on. Hillary lost the election. And I cannot believe that there are still so many Trump haters out there after looking at what he has done with the economy and jobs. And along with his daughter starting a new program so that kids who may not want to go to college can learn a trade such as plumbing or electrician. I don't know about you, but I do not know a poor plumber or electrician. Go ahead Mr. Trump. You've got my vote in 2020. And if anyone in Ravelry is reading this, please, please ban me from your site. I wish there was a way that I could un-join. Have a nice day everyone.


Do you want to hear it again ?? YOU'RE BANNED , cheerio . There is a place set aside for you in the Solarium , with your attitude , you will never be banned there .


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## koudsema (Mar 30, 2015)

Thank you, Ravelry! I wish all websites would monitor what is written on their sites like you are doing. There is no need for negativity, meanness, criticism, judging, etc. in ANY area on any website. I realize that you will be criticized for the position you are taking, but it is so important that we stand up and report issues of negativity. If we, as citizens, don't put a stop to this behavior, who will?


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## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


Confused ?? Ravelry ?? Mmmmmmmmm don't think so .
GO Ravelry , thanks so much .


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## hildy3 (Jan 29, 2011)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


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## hildy3 (Jan 29, 2011)

Well said, all of it, Hazel! Thank you.


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## 25789 (Jun 24, 2011)

I agree pattibe and ChasingRainbows.


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## BARBIE-s (Sep 15, 2014)

Thank you Ravelry, we LOVE YOU ! :sm02:


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## Pakpy (Feb 24, 2014)

Last time I checked, “fuck Trump” falls into the category of hate speech. And yet this is supported on Ravelry


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## gsbyrge (Jul 12, 2011)

Thanks, Ravelry. I've backed away from a number of sites which seem to have been taken over by the hatemongers and namecallers, so I'm glad I can continue to enjoy you. For those of you who consider inclusivity as "hate speech," you have enough places already to spew your poison. Leave the knitting and craft sites to knitters and crafters.


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## sandipawz (Apr 13, 2011)

Thank you, Ravelry, for making a stand against hateful rhetoric.


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## Taffsey (Apr 5, 2012)

Thank you for your stand. I have seldom used Ravelry because I have found the site somewhat difficult to negotiate, but now you certainly have my respect. I will make the effort to learn to use it from now on.


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## Taffsey (Apr 5, 2012)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


Good for you, Hazel. Well put.


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## scrapbookbabs (Nov 24, 2014)

Amen


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## Patricia368 (Apr 3, 2011)

why do we have to bring hate policies, un christian values and anything negative regarding the wonderful world of knitting/ crocheting and any hand made items. It seems we see and hear enough of that all day on the radio, tv, and even internet. It makes me sad to think that this web site has turned into this! I always enjoy seeing all the things talented people have made for gifts, to charities, and just for therapy that it is too bad this too has turned into this! I won't quit any of this but will for sure be very choosey on what I read! I have so enjoyed all the neat stuff and ideas on KP. Oh well we can PICK & CHOOSE what we see, read and believe, and so glad for that! Lets get back to the enjoyable stuff that used to be on here!


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## Debi3735 (Nov 23, 2012)

Thank you Rav a million times, I think our current sociopath in office has created the need for decent people to step out and make statements.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

It would have been best, if they had just banned all politics. Not all republicans are bad and not all democrats are good. We just have different points of view. In the end, we all have feelings and we all bleed red.


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## carmicv (Mar 21, 2014)

I have a cute story. We were in Jamaica New York in the 60's on holiday. We ended up in emergency with our 4 yr old daughter and an asthma attack. When we returned home to our small town in Ontario Canada, we saw a man of colour walking down the street. Our 3 yr old son said."hey mum there is an American".
What does that tell you!


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Ladyj960 said:



> It would have been best, if they had just banned all politics. Not all republicans are bad and not all democrats are good. We just have different points of few. In the end, we all have feelings and we all bleed red.


No one will be banned unless they break the rules that includes everyone regardless of whatever party they may or may not support. As it should be.


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## Orangewoman (Nov 3, 2016)

I hope that this important decision leads to all marginalized people feeling safer and allowing themselves to be a fuller part of our country---


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## MindyT (Apr 29, 2011)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


Ditto! That is a big worry: that America will be able to come back to some kind of norm once Dirty Donnie is a distant memory. (Which for me will be the day after the next election). I worry that the underlying nastiness and real hate that exists now can be put back in the bottle. We are so divided as we can see even from posts here on KP. I wish I knew or could articulate why/how we came to this. We all knew that when Dirty Donnie threw his chapeau into the ring, it was for branding his company. How it got so out of hand and why it appealed to 63 million people is really shocking. And now, with such a big field, I fear we Dems are circling the wagons and going to fire, shooting ourselves. I really don't like trying to pick off candidates with negative stuff. I would like us to be forward-looking and realistic about immigration, student debt, healthcare and voting rights. Solid planks, that's what we need. IMHO


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## eikeat (Feb 12, 2011)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> Your definition of hate speech and mine are apparently very different. I see NO hate speech in their message at all. Quite the opposite actually.


Very well said.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Ravelry for doing what is descent. Hate speech should never be tolerated. If it is, it is repressive tolerance.


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## korteruckmar (Dec 2, 2011)

"Our definition of hate speech is as follows: Hate Speech and Hateful Imagery Words, phrases, or images deemed by Ravelry's owners to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, gender, socio-economic class, or with reference to physical health or mental health, are not allowed."

Does this include hate speech directed to our President, Donald Trump? I see more hate speech directed toward him than any other group or person.


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## Temple (Jun 18, 2012)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


Anytime some one excludes one side it is hateful. Yes, I agree their new policy is hate speech.


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## Sully (Oct 27, 2011)

Thank you Ravelry , MOve on People ...stick to crafting... The USA is not the world... there is all the rest of us out here that do not want to hear the discourse that runs through the US on our crafting site. There is no room for hate anywhere. Keep it to yourselves. It's like fire. Let it spread and everyone is affected. Keep it in one place and eventually, we can only hope, it burns itself out.


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## grandmann (Feb 4, 2011)

Meaning of Hate
Intense or Passionate Dislike


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## Hazel Blumberg - McKee (Sep 9, 2011)

pattibe said:


> Thank you Ravelry...we all need to stand up to this hate monger, his racism and bigotry. He mocks the disabled, calls people childish names, he's a bully and brags about how he can denegrate women. Hazel, all I can say is ditto. Every word you say is the absolute truth. Not to mention that he is a total moron, unfit for the office of president of the United States. He is a con artist, a failed tv game show host who came out on Howard Stern's show before the election and flat out stated, he did not want to be president and the only reason he was running, because he didn't think he could get elected, but maybe he could get his TV show back. Don't believe it? it's on tape, just like he said that windmills cause cancer, the moon is part of Mars and he had a great talk with Fredick Douglas who's only been dead for over 150 years. This is the idiot you elected as president. This godless, souless hulk of a man who calls "legendary" a meeting with a murderous dictator who kills his own family members, tortured and killed an American student because he took down a poster. A man who cares so little about his fellow man that he puts innocent babies and children in cages because he didn't get his way to waste billions of our tax payer dollars on a useless wall. Thank you Ravelry and everyone else with a brain who see's this conman for who he really is, a malignant narcissist; a pathological liar and a disgrace to what America used to be.


Thank you, Pattibe. Your comments are brilliant, to the point, and backed up by evidence. But there are those who choose not to see. I hope you've opened their eyes, just a bit.

Hazel


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## bdduby (Oct 25, 2014)

I totally agree. No trump policy is a hate toward our President. Shame on Ravelry!


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## skkp (Feb 13, 2011)

yeah right --- censorship is censorship --- deleted my account and my world is so much better.....


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## ammie (Mar 11, 2011)

Well said, pattibe.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Some of them proclaim how they believe in the Bible. I wonder whether they have read and comprehended the passages regarding worshiping false "gods".


Aisles said:


> Indeed, he is hardly the poster boy for decent moral behaviour or the advertisement for family values, deceny, wisdom, love, etc etc he is in fact quite the opposite and people put him on a pedestal, fall down and worship him as if if were God.


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

Check it out again....the OP's post about Ravelry's position included the permission to complain about stuff like that, and the original had a specific request for no attacks against either side of the political divide. Ravelry is not supporting hate speech, but it does need members to draw it to their attention. Have you applied the same standard to the person on here who constantly uses pejorative comments about Obama?


Pakpy said:


> Last time I checked, "fuck Trump" falls into the category of hate speech. And yet this is supported on Ravelry


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## Murphie (Jan 6, 2019)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


I had dinner recently with future in-laws. The husband is a high ranking figure in the the crucial Department of.... (I won't mention his name for he could be
identified) with over 35 years of service in the government leading up to his current position.
He would not state, and I did not ask, if he is either Republican or Democrat, but did say that he has been a part of our government through many different
Republican and Democratic presidencies and views our current situation as (I'll paraphrase what we all heard him say)...

I have seen many good, not so good, and bad presidents on both sides, and have learned to not politicize my position
or the Department of which I am a part, because I have also learned that things pass, change, become better or
worse, but America has always rebounded to the position of leadership in the world.

His words gave me some hope.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

It is their right to ban whatever they want to on their privately owned site. Same as your right not to invite people you don't respect into your home.


Ladyj960 said:


> It would have been best, if they had just banned all politics. Not all republicans are bad and not all democrats are good. We just have different points of view. In the end, we all have feelings and we all bleed red.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is their right to ban whatever they want to on their privately owned site. Same as your right not to invite people you don't respect into your home.


I never said it wasn't their right.


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## knitbreak (Jul 19, 2011)

Now we can rest in peace! I hope!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Theirs is a policy of inclusion, including the safe inclusion of all the people the current administration are marginalizing and/or demonizing. Ravelry is not banning people, any people, regardless of their political position. That includes all of the people who are leaving Ravelry because they consider themselves to be attacked for being trump supporters.

The owners of Ravelry clearly said they had no animosity toward any people. What they banned was *the ugly rhetoric* that was demeaning people who were not American born Caucasian Protestants. It was the speech, the words, not the people who are being banned. A person can be the one who knits socks for every member of the trump entourage with "MAGA" displayed in big stranded letters and still be invited in to search for patterns, for help in interpreting patterns, etc. just so long as that person doesn't praise trump on their site or disparage those of us who do not like trump. And doesn't post the design that is threatening to too many people and offensive to even more.

And something to consider. If God did not love people in the LGBTQ spectrum, why did he create so many of them? Perhaps to allow us to mature our humanity by accepting *all* humans as fellow humans with the right to live their private lives as suits who they truly are?


Temple said:


> Anytime some one excludes one side it is hateful. Yes, I agree their new policy is hate speech.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


 Finding some people's behaviors unacceptable and saying so is by no means hate speech.


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## Julie's Mom (Feb 22, 2015)

I just have to say that I'm in complete agreement with Ravelry's policy, and appreciate their explanatory posting.


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## eikeat (Feb 12, 2011)

Julie's Mom said:


> I just have to say that I'm in complete agreement with Ravelry's policy, and appreciate their explanatory posting.


Me too.


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


...sadly, yes...


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Margit said:


> Stand up to hate? in the next sentence you call Trump a moron, unfit for office of the President of the USA. You call him an idiot, Obama was the one who made these cages and it is still in use today. Useless wall?? come on he is not opposed to people coming in DO IT LEGALLY!!! It seems to me that you are a hate monger calling our President a conman, a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar and a disgrace. If this isnt a hate speech I dont know what is. I think as Americans we need to stand by our President and pray for his guidance. God help President Trump he is fighting an uphill battle. Political subjects do not need to be on a knitting site, go spew your venom somewhere else and this is just not directed to you pattibe but to all those people who write derogatory comments to our President.


Presidents who tell lies, break the laws of the land on a regular basis, and make derogatory comments about and take extreme measures toward people who are not exactly like him should be treated how?


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> Presidents who tell lies, break the laws of the land on a regular basis, and make derogatory comments about and take extreme measures toward people who are not exactly like him should be treated how?


You're speaking of #44 now? He was not treated the way President Trump is being treated, by any means...


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## alliehb (Jun 23, 2016)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> .....
> I fear the end of democracy in the US. The president's military extravaganza for the 4th of July allies him with dictators the world over. I fear that this country will soon throw people into concentration camps (it's already doing that to refugees), into shtetls, and kill them. (The police killings of African Americans are rampant.)
> 
> ...


Well said, I could not say it better.


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## LizAnne (Nov 25, 2011)

I am in complete support of Ravelry.


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## ioneodi (Feb 16, 2015)

Hope Mr. President keeps on cleaning the swamp and four more years next election to do it. If not, as prosperity starts vanishing, how are the politicians going to solve it?


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


This is exactly right Mrs. Murdog - no matter their continuing to claim they banned hate speech when they accused supporters of the current administration of all being white supremacist. That is pretty hateful ...... and a lie!


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

Nanknit said:


> Very well said. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men to do nothing". Jen.


I find calling millions of American white supremacists because of their political view pretty evil. Nothing can whitewash that.


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## naughtyknitterjan (Feb 6, 2015)

And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us.


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## shoppingwithsunshine (Jul 25, 2012)

I support RAVELRY.


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

ChasingRainbows said:


> Ravelry's statement is NOT hate speech, it's a stand for politeness, acceptance, and civility towards everyone, regardless of who they are, what they look like, what they believe, and how they live their private lives.
> 
> HATE speech is insults, name calling, spreading lies and gossip about individuals, religious groups, ethnic groups, and other marginalized peoples. It's usually based on ignorance of those who know little about the people they hate.
> 
> ...


*************

Ravelry called millions of Americans - some of them relatives of mine - white supremacists. Thats a lie. The people I know who support Pres. Trump are decent, intelligent and kind individual. That make the folks on Ravelry liars and, I suspect, unAmerican. They owe a lot of American citizens an apology. And the reason some of us do not complain of Facebook is because we don't frequent it.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

naughtyknitterjan said:


> And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us.


Political rally??? Who is trump trying to impress or frighten with a show of military might? He is already friendly with all the great dictators so it must be us.


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## hilltopper (Jul 16, 2014)

pattibe said:


> Me Too, but we have to get back to sanity first. It is a mystery to me how any woman can support a man who brags that because he is a "celebrity" (and this is only in his own mind - game show host, really?) - that he can grab her by her p***y. I can't even write it, but he stood there with his chest puffed out and acted like this was something to brag about...what a shameful disgrace. No real man would speak that way about women...he has no respect, ZERO! Not to mention that he has cheated on all 3 of his wives.


If it is a mystery to you perhaps you may want to think about how some people were tired of career politicians and did not want another one for president. Perhaps you might consider how some. people were willing to have a perhaps flawed personality rather than someone who thought they were entitled to the presidency. And there may have been some who thought Hillary Clinton and her brand of politics were a great danger to this country. And perhaps some did not want to reward a candidate who showed more allegiance to her political party than her country, was inept at the job of Sec. of State, and seemed ungrateful. for all this country had done for her. Maybe some voted against her were she decided everyone who did not favor her was somehow not decent.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

hilltopper said:


> *************
> 
> Ravelry called millions of Americans - some of them relatives of mine - white supremacists. Thats a lie. The people I know who support Pres. Trump are decent, intelligent and kind individual. That make the folks on Ravelry liars and, I suspect, unAmerican. They owe a lot of American citizens an apology. And the reason some of us do not complain of Facebook is because we don't frequent it.


Which post did you see on Ravelry or elsewhere that called ALL Trump supporters while supremacists? Either I missed it or you read too much between the lines.....


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Some of them proclaim how they believe in the Bible. I wonder whether they have read and comprehended the passages regarding worshiping false "gods".


Funny you should mention that as I was only discussing it with other Christians and they said just the same thing. opp sorry to post and run but I have a meeting bring and share dinner with Christian friends and we have a guest a South Korean retired army general who's going to tell us a bit about the work he's doing with people with leperousy.


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## Anne Coco (Mar 5, 2012)

I agree!


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## Celt Knitter (Jul 13, 2011)

So, instead you supported a twice bankrupt businessman, a tax dodger, serial adulterer, sexual predator, draft dodger, a serial liar, etc. When you have minders running around the White House trying to clean up the damage he creates not just at home but also world wide, you should realize he is a major disruption to good governance. Go and talk to some of those poor farmers who have lost everything because of his trade wars with all and sundry! I get your point about career politicians because I do believe that they are so divorced from ordinary people's lives world-wide that they do not understand the anger their policies have caused, However, the anger, division and polarization have increased exponentially under Trump because he is a deeply divisive person who has pushed the world in to an extremely dangerous, volatile situation.


hilltopper said:


> If it is a mystery to you perhaps you may want to think about how some people were tired of career politicians and did not want another one for president. Perhaps you might consider how some. people were willing to have a perhaps flawed personality rather than someone who thought they were entitled to the presidency. And there may have been some who thought Hillary Clinton and her brand of politics were a great danger to this country. And perhaps some did not want to reward a candidate who showed more allegiance to her political party than her country, was inept at the job of Sec. of State, and seemed ungrateful. for all this country had done for her. Maybe some voted against her were she decided everyone who did not favor her was somehow not decent.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

No, he was treated with much less respect by the people who ranted against him. He was called ugly names. His wife was attacked viciously verbally and through disgusting memes. His citizenship was questioned. His educational credentials were questioned. (It was okay to question his educational credentials and demand to see his transcripts, wasn't it? But heaven forfend anybody's questioning the current president's academic credentials). The members of the opposition party in Congress stonewalled any measures he wanted to present for a vote. The current president attacked him constantly.

Mr. Obama handled himself with grace, wit, and dignity throughout the barrage of assaults against him.

Now all the snowflakes who were anti Obama are melting, melting into sorrowful little puddles of self righteous woe, when anybody says anything that is not supportive of the current president. Sad little snowflakes.


flyovercindy said:


> You're speaking of #44 now? He was not treated the way President Trump is being treated, by any means...


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

Celt Knitter said:


> So, instead you supported a twice bankrupt businessman, a tax dodger, serial adulterer, sexual predator, draft dodger, a serial liar, etc. When you have minders running around the White House trying to clean up the damage he creates not just at home but also world wide, you should realize he is a major disruption to good governance. Go and talk to some of those poor farmers who have lost everything because of his trade wars with all and sundry! I get your point about career politicians because I do believe that they are so divorced from ordinary people's lives world-wide that they do not understand the anger their policies have caused, However, the anger, division and polarization have increased exponentially under Trump because he is a deeply divisive person who has pushed the world in to an extremely dangerous, volatile situation.


Actually, and sadly, our president has been bankrupt six times as a businessman, not counting the times his father bailed him out before his death.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Or are doing some really strong self identity. People who get very defensive about general remarks probably see themselves as valid targets for such remarks.


SAMkewel said:


> Which post did you see on Ravelry or elsewhere that called ALL Trump supporters while supremacists? Either I missed it or you read too much between the lines.....


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

That is a very perceptive comment. Thank you.


Celt Knitter said:


> So, instead you supported a twice bankrupt businessman, a tax dodger, serial adulterer, sexual predator, draft dodger, a serial liar, etc. When you have minders running around the White House trying to clean up the damage he creates not just at home but also world wide, you should realize he is a major disruption to good governance. Go and talk to some of those poor farmers who have lost everything because of his trade wars with all and sundry! I get your point about career politicians because I do believe that they are so divorced from ordinary people's lives world-wide that they do not understand the anger their policies have caused, However, the anger, division and polarization have increased exponentially under Trump because he is a deeply divisive person who has pushed the world in to an extremely dangerous, volatile situation.


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## doglady (Nov 12, 2013)

Not that we are going to solve the problems of the world here, but if you look back at history most of our hero's (Dwight Eisenhower, John F.Kennedy etc. had female companionship on the side as did founding fathers President Jefferson). Talk about salvery, worldwide most slaves were owned by folks of their own color because they were taken in tribal raids generally not more than 100 miles away. For 48 years I was a confirmed Democrat, until my party left me. That's right I didn't leave it, it left me and what I believe in. Also, the general public left me as even if we didn't respect the man we respected the office and spoke of our President with care and not hatred. My father who served as spy in the OSS during WWII behind enemy lines in plain clothes where if he were caught our country would deny him told me if you don't like the way things are going you don't whine, you vote someone new in, but not by calling the present person a baby but by being the kind of person you want in that job. Those calling the Republicans a basket of deplorables and those calling Democrats idiots and lazy are neither one what I want leading MY country. So hate language is all kinds of things. It's smearing a type of thing with the same brush without giving the individual thing a chance.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Cookiecat said:


> Well said. Ignoring the fact a majority of Americans (who voted for Trump) are considered "white supremacists" and silenced on Ravelry (their supporters would NEVER understand how wrong it is unless it were THEIR candidate and views were banned!) Liberal fascism is apparently invisible to them. Ravelry's further improvements? A better method of SPYING and calling out other Rav members. TDS overpowering some people's logical thinking and ethics.
> 
> :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


None of our candidates are White Supremacists. If someone came forward who was, the party would reject them.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

shoppingwithsunshine said:


> I support RAVELRY.


I'm rather late to this party - but so do I.
Liz


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

PPCorella said:


> I for one will not use Ravelry. This is against the President, not hate speech. And when an organization takes a political stand, that's when I leave. And you are supporting the other side. If they had said they would not support the Democrats, I would leave as well. Because maybe next month you would decide not to support Italians, or Irish or Jews or Blacks, or whomever. When you think of what all the Democrats have done with regard to physically and verbally attacking Trump supporters, I don't know why you even take a stand. Just last week a journalist was beaten in Portland, Oregon. The Sanders family was forced to leave a restaurant. Candice Owens and her friend were forced to leave a restaurant in Philadelphia. A man called Tucker Carlson's teenage daughter a whore and a f***ing c***. The man's membership at the country club where the event took place has his membership revoked. A teenage boy wearing a MAGA hat had water thrown at his face and had his hat stolen. One of Trump's sons had a waitress spit in his face. And two years ago at a baseball game in Virginia a Congressman, and two other players were shot. The shooter meant to kill them. Of course, the people shot were Republicans. The list is endless. Talk about hate. It seems the Democrats are the ones spewing all the hate. And by the way in the event I have selective memory, remind me of all the Republicans who spew hate at Democrats by performing any abusive act. And so if I SAY I support Trump, that is not acceptable? And Ravelry, please ban me from your site. I will not use it. And you are the ones spewing hate. And all you are is a bunch of sore losers. Move on. Hillary lost the election. And I cannot believe that there are still so many Trump haters out there after looking at what he has done with the economy and jobs. And along with his daughter starting a new program so that kids who may not want to go to college can learn a trade such as plumbing or electrician. I don't know about you, but I do not know a poor plumber or electrician. Go ahead Mr. Trump. You've got my vote in 2020. And if anyone in Ravelry is reading this, please, please ban me from your site. I wish there was a way that I could un-join. Have a nice day everyone.


Ravelry does not want to read your crap on their site, why would they come here to read it. Use your self-righteousness to sign in to Ravelry and pull your own account.

Your take on this is misguided. Ravelry is not against conservatives, it is against white supremacy and the support of it. If you don't fit the bill, why are you so offended? However, from what you have posted above, I'd say you do fit the bill. You are idolizing an admitted white supremacist. If those are your values, Ravelry doesn't want you expressing those values on their site.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

PPCorella said:


> Yes, that is what I would like to know. It's not hate. It's just that the moderators of Ravelry probably hate him, so they made up an excuse. I think they should stick to what they do best, and that is crafting. And I have never read anything on their site pro or con politically, so I don't know where that came up. All I ever saw on their sites were patterns, and please correct me if I am wrong.


They have forums on their site where trump supporters have been very crude and very vocal. They praise trump as many have on this thread. By praising trump and vilifying others who don't, they are supporting his white supremacy. There are many conservatives who do not support trump. George Will comes to mind. So if you are a Conservative Republican and don't love trump's abhorrent policies, actions, statements, history of racism, cronyism, thievery and rape, then Ravelry embraces you


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

D0r15 said:


> What hypocrisy!!! No freedom of speech here. Disgraceful . People like that will destroy the country..


Too late!


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## CarolZ (Apr 6, 2011)

I wish KP would adopt the same policy as Ravelry. There would be a lot less nastiness on this site too.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

korteruckmar said:


> "Our definition of hate speech is as follows: Hate Speech and Hateful Imagery Words, phrases, or images deemed by Ravelry's owners to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, gender, socio-economic class, or with reference to physical health or mental health, are not allowed."
> 
> Does this include hate speech directed to our President, Donald Trump? I see more hate speech directed toward him than any other group or person.


It does. He is always expressing hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, gender, socio-economic class, or with reference to physical health or mental health, are not allowed."


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## noni (Apr 12, 2011)

Pakpy said:


> Last time I checked, "fuck Trump" falls into the category of hate speech. And yet this is supported on Ravelry


Not anymore. Pay attention!


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## LovesK2P2 (Oct 12, 2016)

Sully said:


> Thank you Ravelry , MOve on People ...stick to crafting... The USA is not the world... there is all the rest of us out here that do not want to hear the discourse that runs through the US on our crafting site. There is no room for hate anywhere. Keep it to yourselves. It's like fire. Let it spread and everyone is affected. Keep it in one place and eventually, we can only hope, it burns itself out.


Thank you....someone with perspective!!!


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

hilltopper said:


> I find calling millions of American white supremacists because of their political view pretty evil. Nothing can whitewash that.


It's not their view, it is their support of a known white supremacist. How many times do we have to say that?


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

hilltopper said:


> If it is a mystery to you perhaps you may want to think about how some people were tired of career politicians and did not want another one for president. Perhaps you might consider how some. people were willing to have a perhaps flawed personality rather than someone who thought they were entitled to the presidency. And there may have been some who thought Hillary Clinton and her brand of politics were a great danger to this country. And perhaps some did not want to reward a candidate who showed more allegiance to her political party than her country, was inept at the job of Sec. of State, and seemed ungrateful. for all this country had done for her. Maybe some voted against her were she decided everyone who did not favor her was somehow not decent.


Water over the dam. We now have someone in the WH who shows allegiance to foreign dictators and himself. That's it. Because of that, he is a great danger to this country. What, exactly is Mrs. Clinton supposed to be so grateful to this country for? All I hear are cries of "lock her up" still. She's a private citizen. So does racism, bankruptcy, serial cheating, degradation of women, not paying contractors, starting up self-serving charities and universities fall under "flawed personality"? These were all things known before his hat was tossed in the ring. I have no idea how anyone with a sense of decency, could vote for him and it baffles me more that so many continue adoring him. Especially, you, Miss lifelong Democrat. If you were ever a Democrat, then I am the very first alien to visit Roswell, New Mexico.


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## Nanabjem (Jun 29, 2012)

I can relate to everything you say. Many thanks.


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## Miss M (Jun 26, 2019)

I agree.


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## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

And you know this because it has already happened? Hmmm, I thought today was only the 3rd of July.



naughtyknitterjan said:


> And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us.


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## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

I have to say kk, you remind me of the commentators on the msm. You continually spout the same nonsense they do. Do you share the same talking points? Perhaps one day day you will pull your head out of the sand or maybe not...



knovice knitter said:


> Water over the dam. We now have someone in the WH who shows allegiance to foreign dictators and himself. That's it. Because of that, he is a great danger to this country. What, exactly is Mrs. Clinton supposed to be so grateful to this country for? All I hear are cries of "lock her up" still. She's a private citizen. So does racism, bankruptcy, serial cheating, degradation of women, not paying contractors, starting up self-serving charities and universities fall under "flawed personality"? These were all things known before his hat was tossed in the ring. I have no idea how anyone with a sense of decency, could vote for him and it baffles me more that so many continue adoring him. Especially, you, Miss lifelong Democrat. If you were ever a Democrat, then I am the very first alien to visit Roswell, New Mexico.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Hazel Blumberg - McKee said:


> Ravelry, I cannot thank you enough for your anti-hate-speech platform. Hatred, bigotry, racism, and more have always existed in the United States. However, now that they are being encouraged by a US president who actively incites violence, more hatred, bigotry, racism have come to the fore than I've seen since my childhood in the 1950s and 1960s. Back then, I experienced rampant, everyday anti-Semitism. I had hoped that, over the years, things would improve.
> 
> Under the current president, anti-Semitism and all the other "anti-"s have grown to horrific percentages. I am experiencing anti-Semitism that is far worse than what I experienced as a kid. I am having flashbacks. Friends of mine who are African American have been and have felt so threatened that they have fled the US. This is the US in which we now live.
> 
> ...


Thank you Hazel Blumberg - McKee! Very well said!


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Aubreys gramma said:


> I have to say kk, you remind me of the commentators on the msm. You continually spout the same nonsense they do. Do you share the same talking points? Perhaps one day day you will pull your head out of the sand or maybe not...


I don't watch opinion television. I used to watch MSNBC several years ago when the focus was on the recall of the governor of Wisconsin. Since trump meandered on to the political scene, I've not watched television news. I can't bear to hear his voice. I also saw what Fox was doing to people like you. Fox isn't news. It is opinions about the news. I felt left leaning broadcasts were no better in that respect, however, they are much more calm, intelligent, factual and well-researched rather than knee-jerk bs. So no. I speak the way I feel and have felt since I marched in the 60's in Viet Nam involvement protests. I think critically enough not to have to be told how to think by some blond cleavaged Stepford wife or Fat Cats with spittle dripping from their jowls.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

MrsMurdog said:


> Well, back in the old days, any time you picked out any one segment of society to attack it was considered hate speech. I do realize that now a days, anyone who is not of the same mind is okay to attack.


Oh, you are so funny! You consider this an attack? Please, get a grip. This was done to prevent attacks on others. If you only knew what was done on ravelry by supporters of #45, you might think differently.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Aubreys gramma said:


> And you know this because it has already happened? Hmmm, I thought today was only the 3rd of July.


She and everyone else (other than you) knows it because it was announced. Get your head out of the sand. If you are going to hold a giant self-serving rally at the expense of American tax-payers, you can't just plan it the morning of.


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## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

Aubreys gramma said:


> And you know this because it has already happened? Hmmm, I thought today was only the 3rd of July.


naughtyknitterjan wrote:
And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us. (Quote)

Do you, Aubreys gramma, read/listen to the news? City of Washington DC is concerned about tanks breaking up the streets, so tanks will only be on display. President Trump was shown talking about the flyover. Nothing fake about his actual appearance and speech. 
And all that was reported on July 2.


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## CBratt (Dec 6, 2012)

Excellent. I love Ravelry's take on this. Inclusion and love are always good. I would love to see more sites do this. Good conquers over hate. Very proud to be a member of Ravelry!


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## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


Yes, they have made it clear no more hate. However, like so many sites, including KP, many of these nasty hate messages are from intruders, trolls, whatever you call them--people from outside as well as inside our country who are creating fear, anger and division between us to bring down our country. This has been going on long before trump, it's just he doesn't have much finesse!


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## Runner Girl (Mar 27, 2013)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

How do you jump from a parade celebrating our nations birth and our military to a political rally designed to "stroke his self esteem"? As to questioning a flyover, my goodness, we had flyovers in my CA small town parade forever. As I recall, many sporting events have had them also. Once again, you're jumping to conclusions. Is it the parade you dislike or the fact that President Trump is doing it?



Longtimer said:


> naughtyknitterjan wrote:
> And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us. (Quote)
> 
> Do you, Aubreys gramma, read/listen to the news? City of Washington DC is concerned about tanks breaking up the streets, so tanks will only be on display. President Trump was shown talking about the flyover. Nothing fake about his actual appearance and speech.
> And all that was reported on July 2.


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## knittertat (Aug 1, 2017)

How about NO politics on the site. Go to facebook and rant. Or twitter. Better yet, get more tolerant. Find out who's really committing crimes against minorities. Maybe look around and see who's trying to tear your country apart, and I don't mean government! Obama did nothing and Trump us bombastic. So? There are other factors driving this and they started with the young people.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Margit said:


> Stand up to hate? in the next sentence you call Trump a moron, unfit for office of the President of the USA. You call him an idiot, Obama was the one who made these cages and it is still in use today. Useless wall?? come on he is not opposed to people coming in DO IT LEGALLY!!! It seems to me that you are a hate monger calling our President a conman, a malignant narcissist, a pathological liar and a disgrace. If this isnt a hate speech I dont know what is. I think as Americans we need to stand by our President and pray for his guidance. God help President Trump he is fighting an uphill battle. Political subjects do not need to be on a knitting site, go spew your venom somewhere else and this is just not directed to you pattibe but to all those people who write derogatory comments to our President.


No, we will not go away. To stop this man who thinks he is the king, we will do anything and everything to stop him - legally this is. So, you seem to think every single TV station is wrong except Fox. Even Fox is getting tired of #45 and have challenged things he has said and done. We will not let this person become another Hitler. Good grief, this is not hatred. We are telling the truth! He does not tell the truth maybe he is incapable of it, I don't know, but he does lie constantly. We have lots of proof of his lies on video and on the news. He is all about himself and his huge ego. That is not so bad. However, he makes fun of anyone who does not think he is wonderful. So, as for spewing venom, you just go listen to #45 do this!


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

Bedo said:


> Hazel you could not said it better. Your writting was beautiful and very well said. All Trump is doing is having a 4th of July for political reasons and acting like a dictator that he is He already selling our nation to North and Korea and Russia. I not be watching this TV tomorrow. I going to be watching a Hallmark movie and then going to a party. Happy 4th of July. ????????????


"Dictator"? "Selling our country"? You mean like Obama & HRC selling a high percentage of our scarce uranium to Russia? And Obama issuing more executive orders than all the rest our presidents combined? Funny thing, NONE of that money went into the Natl genl fund.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Cookiecat said:


> Well said. Ignoring the fact a majority of Americans (who voted for Trump) are considered "white supremacists" and silenced on Ravelry (their supporters would NEVER understand how wrong it is unless it were THEIR candidate and views were banned!) Liberal fascism is apparently invisible to them. Ravelry's further improvements? A better method of SPYING and calling out other Rav members. TDS overpowering some people's logical thinking and ethics.
> 
> :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


The thing is, it would never happen to us - supporters of ravelry as you called us. Why? Because we would never, ever, in God's green world, have a "candidate" like #45! Fascism is #45 and his minions who evidently want to have a dictator tell them their every move to make. The rest of us are confident in wanting a democracy. A country that has more than one TV station, or newspaper. As it is, when #45 does not like what is written about him, he calls fake news.

Indeed, we want a president that we can all be proud of, not one who thinks and acts like a white supremacist, among other things.


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## spins2knit (Jul 29, 2013)

Looks to me as if those who support an administration that approves of bigotry and cruelty are being willfully ignorant of the fact that real life is moving on without them. The hate is coming from them and is not directed toward them.

Those of us who embrace diversity and equality simply don't want to share the sandbox. I noticed this morning that while the so-called hateful Attic has over 2000 subscribers, the "calm" and loving Solarium has around 560. I think the majority shows its preferances.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

plumhurricane said:


> Writing derogatory comments is called freedom of speech. You are entitled to your opinion as I am to mine. One of the first things dictators do is to muzzle the press & clamp down on people expressing their opinions


Yes! Thank you! That is exactly what dictators do!


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## Medieval Reenactor (Sep 3, 2013)

Thank you, Ravelry.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

PPCorella said:


> Yes, that is what I would like to know. It's not hate. It's just that the moderators of Ravelry probably hate him, so they made up an excuse. I think they should stick to what they do best, and that is crafting. And I have never read anything on their site pro or con politically, so I don't know where that came up. All I ever saw on their sites were patterns, and please correct me if I am wrong.


Ravelry has a discussion forum. I knew nothing about it until a couple of weeks ago when ravelry instituted their new policy. Evidently, supporters of #45 were quite full of hate towards non supporters of #45. There were problems, and threats made by supporters of #45, so ravelry made this decision. Whether you agree with this or not, it is their site, and they can do what they want to do. As I understand it, things got very ugly, and many of them did have white supremacist actions.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

D0r15 said:


> What hypocrisy!!! No freedom of speech here. Disgraceful . People like that will destroy the country..


What ravelry did WAS free speech! Do you not understand that?


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## hspirit_99 (Jun 25, 2012)

thank you


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Murphie said:


> I had dinner recently with future in-laws. The husband is a high ranking figure in the the crucial Department of.... (I won't mention his name for he could be
> identified) with over 35 years of service in the government leading up to his current position.
> He would not state, and I did not ask, if he is either Republican or Democrat, but did say that he has been a part of our government through many different
> Republican and Democratic presidencies and views our current situation as (I'll paraphrase what we all heard him say)...
> ...


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Jillpr (Mar 15, 2011)

It may be free speech, but I will no longer take part in Ravelry because of it's policies. There are many other places to get yarn, patterns .So will be taking my business elsewhere.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

flyovercindy said:


> You're speaking of #44 now? He was not treated the way President Trump is being treated, by any means...


Ah, #44, what a President! What a man! Honest, Faithful, Trustworthy, Respectful, Loving, Not mean spirited, did not make fun of a war hero, nor disabled people, has Integrity, Empathy, Compassion, Intelligent, Thoughtful. I could go on, but will just stop there.

No, President Barack Obama was not treated the way #45 is treated. You are no doubt a #45 supporter, and not worth me trying to show you the difference between a stand up man, and a little whiner.


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## collectordolls (Oct 27, 2013)

You all say that their statement is not hate speech but did anyone notice that they are not supporting white people. So somehow that alone is.a hate speech. You talk about inclusive well aren't you excluding a portion of society. Someone mentioned that anti-Semitism is on the rise and they are afraid. You blame President Trump for this what I don't understand is that he supports Israel unlike Obama who turned his back on Israel. I live in NYS and whenever I see a news article about anti semitism it is always a minority who is doing it. So I just think you all should start including all people in your diversity


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## ltokos (Jan 5, 2014)

I ditto your whole message! I think you read my mind! Thank you


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

naughtyknitterjan said:


> And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us.


Yes, and these so called Republicans - oh wait, I heard there is no Republican party left. It is the party of #45 now. So, the party is normally the party that does not want to spend money - ha! They don't want to spend it on some things that would be important and good for all in the country, oh no, let's have some tanks out here so #45 can feed his humongous ego. Yep, lets spend money this way. The tanks by the way, will rip up the streets according to the mayor of Washington D.C.


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## collectordolls (Oct 27, 2013)

raindancer said:


> Ah, #44, what a President! What a man! Honest, Faithful, Trustworthy, Respectful, Loving, Not mean spirited, did not make fun of a war hero, nor disabled people, has Integrity, Empathy, Compassion, Intelligent, Thoughtful. I could go on, but will just stop there.
> 
> No, President Barack Obama was not treated the way #45 is treated. You are no doubt a #45 supporter, and not worth me trying to show you the difference between a stand up man, and a little whiner.


That is so funny your stand up man turned his back on the only country in the Middle East yes I do mean Israel, who is our friend. Your standup guy promoted the race card whenever he could. Don't forget the detention centers were set up when he was President. He ripped children out of their mothers arms, but I guess it was OK because no one thought about it then. You are right he had integrity he knew how to play the system


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

naughtyknitterjan said:


> And now the Hatemonger in chief is turning July 4 into a political rally and an event to stroke his self esteem. God help us.


Yep, we must feed his humongous ego! What a joke!


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

knittertat said:


> How about NO politics on the site. Go to facebook and rant. Or twitter. Better yet, get more tolerant. Find out who's really committing crimes against minorities. Maybe look around and see who's trying to tear your country apart, and I don't mean government! Obama did nothing and Trump us bombastic. So? There are other factors driving this and they started with the young people.


I think no politics is fine. But to tell some people they can't express their opinions, whether you agree with them or not, is censorship.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Aisles said:


> Funny you should mention that as I was only discussing it with other Christians and they said just the same thing. opp sorry to post and run but I have a meeting bring and share dinner with Christian friends and we have a guest a South Korean retired army general who's going to tell us a bit about the work he's doing with people with leperousy.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Celt Knitter said:


> So, instead you supported a twice bankrupt businessman, a tax dodger, serial adulterer, sexual predator, draft dodger, a serial liar, etc. When you have minders running around the White House trying to clean up the damage he creates not just at home but also world wide, you should realize he is a major disruption to good governance. Go and talk to some of those poor farmers who have lost everything because of his trade wars with all and sundry! I get your point about career politicians because I do believe that they are so divorced from ordinary people's lives world-wide that they do not understand the anger their policies have caused, However, the anger, division and polarization have increased exponentially under Trump because he is a deeply divisive person who has pushed the world in to an extremely dangerous, volatile situation.


Very well stated, Celt Knitter!

:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

Aubreys gramma said:


> How do you jump from a parade celebrating our nations birth and our military to a political rally designed to "stroke his self esteem"? As to questioning a flyover, my goodness, we had flyovers in my CA small town parade forever. As I recall, many sporting events have had them also. Once again, you're jumping to conclusions. Is it the parade you dislike or the fact that President Trump is doing it?


I guess what you don't understand is that July 4 is supposed to celebrate our independence, not our military might. 
Please read the history and purpose of the July 4 celebration. 
The Founding Fathers would be most surprised to see the celebration of our independence morphed into a military show.


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## SherryL (Apr 26, 2012)

thank you Ravelry-I applaud your stand!


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> I don't watch opinion television. I used to watch MSNBC several years ago when the focus was on the recall of the governor of Wisconsin. Since trump meandered on to the political scene, I've not watched television news. I can't bear to hear his voice. I also saw what Fox was doing to people like you. Fox isn't news. It is opinions about the news. I felt left leaning broadcasts were no better in that respect, however, they are much more calm, intelligent, factual and well-researched rather than knee-jerk bs. So no. I speak the way I feel and have felt since I marched in the 60's in Viet Nam involvement protests. I think critically enough not to have to be told how to think by some blond cleavaged Stepford wife or Fat Cats with spittle dripping from their jowls.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

Longtimer said:


> I guess what you don't understand is that July 4 is supposed to celebrate our independence, not our military might.
> Please read the history and purpose of the July 4 celebration.
> The Founding Fathers would be most surprised to see the celebration of our independence morphed into a military show.


 :sm24:


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

grandmatimestwo said:


> I think no politics is fine. But to tell some people they can't express their opinions, whether you agree with them or not, is censorship.


How can you call anything else "censorship" when you live in a country where the president promotes only one news source (Fox) and describes all the rest as "Fake News".

Can't you see how illogical that sounds?


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Nanknit said:


> Excellent........I hope that America can come back after Trump is just a distant memory of an inglorious time in history. Jen.


Thank you Jen. We do too! Also, thank you to Ravelry.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Aubreys gramma said:


> I have to say kk, you remind me of the commentators on the msm. You continually spout the same nonsense they do. Do you share the same talking points? Perhaps one day day you will pull your head out of the sand or maybe not...


Knovice Knitter certainly does NOT have her head in the sand. She researches, she listens and watches, and makes her own decisions. She has empathy, compassion and caring for all peoples. She is smart enough to use her own mind to make her decisions. She does not have to drink the Kool-aid of any politician.


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## grandmatimestwo (Mar 30, 2011)

lizcrafts said:


> How can you call anything else "censorship" when you live in a country where the president promotes only one news source (Fox) and describes all the rest as "Fake News".
> 
> Can't you see how illogical that sounds?


I don't support him....never have and never will. However, I will defend the rights of people who do.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

raindancer said:


> Knovice Knitter certainly does NOT have her head in the sand. She researches, she listens and watches, and makes her own decisions. She has empathy, compassion and caring for all peoples. She is smart enough to use her own mind to make her decisions. She does not have to drink the Kool-aid of any politician.


Thank you, raindancer.


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## MaryCarter (Oct 17, 2011)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


 :sm24:

Anti racist is code for anti white. Read it somewhere, but it appears to be true in every instance. We recently had a case where an elderly white woman was beaten to death in her own home by a black youth. He didn't use a weapon, so you can imagine how she died. We mourned her death, but remained silent, BUT can you imagine the outcry if she had of been a black woman slaughtered by a white youth. They would be rioting, looting and burning. So over it all. MANGO, and shame on Ravelry.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Aubreys gramma said:


> How do you jump from a parade celebrating our nations birth and our military to a political rally designed to "stroke his self esteem"? As to questioning a flyover, my goodness, we had flyovers in my CA small town parade forever. As I recall, many sporting events have had them also. Once again, you're jumping to conclusions. Is it the parade you dislike or the fact that President Trump is doing it?


Good grief, do you not ever listen to or read, the news? Check out what all he actually wanted for "his" parade. His words - his parade. He also wants everyone to stand at attention when he walks in like they do in North Korea for Kim Jong Un. The latter was said after the last time he went to North Korea for talks, not this last bit a couple days ago.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

CBratt said:


> Excellent. I love Ravelry's take on this. Inclusion and love are always good. I would love to see more sites do this. Good conquers over hate. Very proud to be a member of Ravelry!


Me too!

:sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

collectordolls said:


> You all say that their statement is not hate speech but did anyone notice that they are not supporting white people. So somehow that alone is.a hate speech. You talk about inclusive well aren't you excluding a portion of society. Someone mentioned that anti-Semitism is on the rise and they are afraid. You blame President Trump for this what I don't understand is that he supports Israel unlike Obama who turned his back on Israel. I live in NYS and whenever I see a news article about anti semitism it is always a minority who is doing it. So I just think you all should start including all people in your diversity


Regarding your first sentence, please tell me where or how you noticed that ravelry is not supporting white people. That would be quite odd because it is owned by white people. I am not being facetious, I just would like to know. I do know they are not supporting white supremacists, or those who talk like they are.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

ltokos said:


> I ditto your whole message! I think you read my mind! Thank you


If you would please use the "quote reply" feature, we would know to whom you are talking. Thanks!


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

grandmatimestwo said:


> I think no politics is fine. But to tell some people they can't express their opinions, whether you agree with them or not, is censorship.


Ravelry is privately owned, they can do what they like!


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## knitonashingle (Apr 30, 2015)

hazelroselooms said:


> Since we shared our new No Trump policy we have received an overwhelming amount of feedback, encouragement, love, and expressions of solidarity, and we are truly grateful. Many of you have asked us about making donations to Ravelry. Thank you so much for thinking of this, but the best way to support us is by supporting Ravelry designers, dyers, advertisers, and shops, particularly those run by people who are black, indigenous, people of color, members of the LGBTQ+ community, disabled crafters, those who belong to otherwise marginalized communities, and those who are speaking out on justice and equality issues to effect change. If you are specifically moved to donate, rather than making a donation to us we would like to suggest contributing to RAICES Texas, or finding an organization local to you that is doing anti-racism work or meeting the needs of the LGBTQ+ members of your community or other marginalized groups.
> 
> New Features and Policies
> For over 10 years, we've had a hate speech policy on Ravelry, and our No Trump Support policy is an extension of that. Our definition of hate speech is as follows: Hate Speech and Hateful Imagery Words, phrases, or images deemed by Ravelry's owners to express, either deliberately or unknowingly, hatred or contempt towards a group of people, based on areas such as their ethnic, cultural, religious or sexual identity, gender, socio-economic class, or with reference to physical health or mental health, are not allowed.
> ...


Yes, I can see where they have "stopped the hate" - except for the hatred they have for President Trump and his administration- that hatred is apparent and they don't mind sharing it with us and the world, in effigy.

This "statement" explains nor exonerates their NEW POLICY of EXCLUSION rather than INCLUSION.

And further, it sounds like they are trying to "convince themselves" that they are doing the right thing; too bad it falls on deaf ears. And do you know why those ears are deaf? Because RAVELRY silenced them. They said "no talking about Trump" and in the same sentence they said "anything we will allow on our site is about hating Trump" and "YOU WHO DISAGREE ARE NOT PERMITTED TO SPEAK ABOUT IT."

So when you go to Ravelry and search for Trump... this is what you get.

Tell me, how or where is this hatred:

"more safe, just, and fun"

"celebrate your love of yarn!"

So in the immortal wordds of Casey Forbes "I don't care."


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

MaryCarter said:


> :sm24:
> 
> Anti racist is code for anti white. Read it somewhere, but it appears to be true in every instance. We recently had a case where an elderly white woman was beaten to death in her own home by a black youth. He didn't use a weapon, so you can imagine how she died. We mourned her death, but remained silent, BUT can you imagine the outcry if she had of been a black woman slaughtered by a white youth. They would be rioting, looting and burning. So over it all. MANGO, and shame on Ravelry.


That is the craziest thing I ever heard! Anti racist is code for anti white??? That is the exact opposite of anti racist. Anti racist means literally not racist against any race or color, or religion.

As to your other mention about the white versus black, I just will say there are bad and good in every race, color, and religion.


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## cornslower (Nov 1, 2015)

PPCorella said:


> I for one will not use Ravelry. This is against the President, not hate speech. And when an organization takes a political stand, that's when I leave. And you are supporting the other side. If they had said they would not support the Democrats, I would leave as well. Because maybe next month you would decide not to support Italians, or Irish or Jews or Blacks, or whomever. When you think of what all the Democrats have done with regard to physically and verbally attacking Trump supporters, I don't know why you even take a stand. Just last week a journalist was beaten in Portland, Oregon. The Sanders family was forced to leave a restaurant. Candice Owens and her friend were forced to leave a restaurant in Philadelphia. A man called Tucker Carlson's teenage daughter a whore and a f***ing c***. The man's membership at the country club where the event took place has his membership revoked. A teenage boy wearing a MAGA hat had water thrown at his face and had his hat stolen. One of Trump's sons had a waitress spit in his face. And two years ago at a baseball game in Virginia a Congressman, and two other players were shot. The shooter meant to kill them. Of course, the people shot were Republicans. The list is endless. Talk about hate. It seems the Democrats are the ones spewing all the hate. And by the way in the event I have selective memory, remind me of all the Republicans who spew hate at Democrats by performing any abusive act. And so if I SAY I support Trump, that is not acceptable? And Ravelry, please ban me from your site. I will not use it. And you are the ones spewing hate. And all you are is a bunch of sore losers. Move on. Hillary lost the election. And I cannot believe that there are still so many Trump haters out there after looking at what he has done with the economy and jobs. And along with his daughter starting a new program so that kids who may not want to go to college can learn a trade such as plumbing or electrician. I don't know about you, but I do not know a poor plumber or electrician. Go ahead Mr. Trump. You've got my vote in 2020. And if anyone in Ravelry is reading this, please, please ban me from your site. I wish there was a way that I could un-join. Have a nice day everyone.


Trump has my vote in 2020 too and bravo to you!


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## Rosie's mom (Nov 23, 2013)

hazelroselooms said:


> Since we shared our new No Trump policy we have received an overwhelming amount of feedback, encouragement, love, and expressions of solidarity, and we are truly grateful. Many of you have asked us about making donations to Ravelry. Thank you so much for thinking of this, but the best way to support us is by supporting Ravelry designers, dyers, advertisers, and shops, particularly those run by people who are black, indigenous, people of color, members of the LGBTQ+ community, disabled crafters, those who belong to otherwise marginalized communities, and those who are speaking out on justice and equality issues to effect change. If you are specifically moved to donate, rather than making a donation to us we would like to suggest contributing to RAICES Texas, or finding an organization local to you that is doing anti-racism work or meeting the needs of the LGBTQ+ members of your community or other marginalized groups.
> 
> ????????????????????????
> 
> ...


----------



## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

MarilynKnits said:


> Some of them proclaim how they believe in the Bible. I wonder whether they have read and comprehended the passages regarding worshiping false "gods".


You are ridiculous, trying to use semantics to prove your ridiculous point. Christians do not "worship" political figures the same way they worship the Lord.


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## cornslower (Nov 1, 2015)

It amazes me to read all the unpatriotic people, on here, can't you just enjoy the 4th and celebrate this wonderful free country. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!


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## cornslower (Nov 1, 2015)

Make America Great Again!


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

cornslower said:


> It amazes me to read all the unpatriotic people, on here, can't you just enjoy the 4th and celebrate this wonderful free country. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm02:


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## wildfire0 (Mar 14, 2012)

I am done with all of you. This is no place for a group to take sides, Ravelry had taken a public side. I am so dissapointed that a pleasent place to share and learn had to resort to politics.


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

I'm through with this site too; I don't care to associate with so many slanderers. Truth would be a defense, but emotions aren't.


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## nanbobs (Jun 29, 2017)

MrsMurdog said:


> They seem to be confused because their new policy IS hate speech.


I agree. I have not even expressed a leaning left or right, but am appalled by the hatred and hate speech by "liberals(!)" I cannot believe Ravekry is doing this, but I am finished with the site.


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## knitalot2 (Apr 25, 2019)

I think a website as yours should stay away from voicing your opinions. You present yourself as a community for knitters, crocheters etc. Why not keep to that. This post has probably offended half of your patrons. It offended me because I don't care what your opinions are, this is not your platform.


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## MaryCarter (Oct 17, 2011)

raindancer said:


> That is the craziest thing I ever heard! Anti racist is code for anti white??? That is the exact opposite of anti racist. Anti racist means literally not racist against any race or color, or religion.
> 
> As to your other mention about the white versus black, I just will say there are bad and good in every race, color, and religion.


The term anti racist is, (by it's very definition) aimed at white people. Only white people can be racist apparently. This black youth beat a defenseless elderly white woman to death in her bed, yet all news media refused to call it for what it was......a race hate crime. But if this poor defenseless woman had of been black (it never happens here by the way) and the assailant white, the term race hate crime would have appeared in all the newspapers and television news for days on end ad nauseum. It never does, and that is my point. It is why Trump got in, it is why right wing governments are getting in all over the world...... people are tired of this double standard, it has nothing to do with "white supremacy". Of course there are good and bad in every race, but when you are willing to give one race a free ride at the expense of all other races, that is very very wrong, and causes disharmony, as we see here. I don't hate anyone, and I happily cancelled my Ravelry account because they seem to be doing the exact same thing as the media....taking sides, giving some a free ride at the expense of others. I love my KP, and just because we all have different views will never stop me from being a member. I value everyone's imput. I love Eddie Murphy for his sense of humour, and Diana Ross for her beautiful songs. I love Louie Armstrong's "A Wonderful World", I still get teary at "Love Child". I love Bill Cosby...who has also recently been accused of doing naughty things to women in his youth. I love Halle Berry just because she is beautiful, I loved Whitney Houston, and many many others. I love Morgan Freeman. I don't like Samuel L Jackson....not sure why.


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

Am I reliving 1943? Because that's what this looks like when millions of people are called "Nazis*, "fascists", "white supremacists", and told they aren't Black or Native American or mixed blood anymore because the Leftists deem it so & have painted us with magic bleach.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

grandmatimestwo said:


> I don't support him....never have and never will. However, I will defend the rights of people who do.


You should check your history. There were people just like you in Nazi Germany.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
Liz


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Longtimer said:


> I guess what you don't understand is that July 4 is supposed to celebrate our independence, not our military might.
> Please read the history and purpose of the July 4 celebration.
> The Founding Fathers would be most surprised to see the celebration of our independence morphed into a military show.


What you've pointed out is not a suprize to me and I'm not even an American. I was watching vidoes of Americans being interviewed. The questions asked where (1) will you be celebrating the 4th of July - answer Yes

(2) What do we celebrate on the 4th of July? - answer most didn't even know, for those that did answered correctly correctly were given 2 futher questions eg question 3 - Which country did we gain our independence from? I was so shocked as most thought it was from Mexico or had no suggest whatsoever, Question 4 was 'What year did we gain independence? well you can imagine the blank stares and some rather strange answer such as 1960.

Ask the average person in the UK the same questions and feel the only one we would get incorrect would the the year.


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

US schools have been dumbing down people for years along with substituting propaganda & historical revisionism for the classic subjects that used to be taught.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> US schools have been dumbing down people for years along with substituting propaganda & historical revisionism for the classic subjects that used to be taught.


What about home...isn't patriotism taught from the home?


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## Mspiggy253 (Apr 6, 2013)

Good Job, Ravelry!


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## wildfire0 (Mar 14, 2012)

How dare anyone "praise" Ravelry! What has happened to this country? I totally agree with freedom of speech, however why is it necessary for an international site to publish something like they did? I used to love using Ravelry to learn from, I supported the designers and paid for patterns... no more!


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

wildfire0 said:


> How dare anyone "praise" Ravelry! What has happened to this country? I totally agree with freedom of speech, however why is it necessary for an international site to publish something like they did? I used to love using Ravelry to learn from, I supported the designers and paid for patterns... no more!


Ravelry did it because they want to adhere to the wishes of the majority of their followers - not a prejudiced minority.

It makes excellent sense to me
Liz


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## wildfire0 (Mar 14, 2012)

I can't believe that the majority of users wanted to see them, as my mother would say, "air their dirty laundry".


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

wildfire0 said:


> I can't believe that the majority of users wanted to see them, as my mother would say, "air their dirty laundry".


I think that what they are doing is "getting rid of their dirty laundry" - and "the majority" commend them for that.
Liz


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## Longtimer (May 23, 2013)

Susie2016 said:


> You are ridiculous, trying to use semantics to prove your ridiculous point. Christians do not "worship" political figures the same way they worship the Lord.


Isn't there something in the Bible about "other gods?"


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## wildfire0 (Mar 14, 2012)

Done


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

wildfire0 said:


> How dare anyone "praise" Ravelry! What has happened to this country? I totally agree with freedom of speech, however why is it necessary for an international site to publish something like they did? I used to love using Ravelry to learn from, I supported the designers and paid for patterns... no more!


I'm with you, and I'm not sure they are the "majority" they think they are...


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

wildfire0 said:


> How dare anyone "praise" Ravelry! What has happened to this country? I totally agree with freedom of speech, however why is it necessary for an international site to publish something like they did? I used to love using Ravelry to learn from, I supported the designers and paid for patterns... no more!


Oh no pretend moral outrage because a company had the gaul to remove hate from their site and set down the some rules that most companies and forum abhor to worldwide.

I do dare to praise Ravelry for their sound judgment, moral fortitude and buisness acumen.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> I'm with you, and I'm not sure they are the "majority" they think they are...


….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!

Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

lizcrafts said:


> ….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!
> 
> Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


Dear Liz - no one asked for your nasty _opinion_.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Aisles said:


> Oh no pretend moral outrage because a company had the gaul to remove hate from their site and set down the rules that most companies and forum hold to worldwide.
> 
> I do dare to praise Ravelry for their sound judgment, moral fortitude and buisness acumen.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

lizcrafts said:


> ….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!
> 
> Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


Judging by the reaction you got to this, pesky reality is still unacceptable to some. When the USA is no longer a part of the "Free World," you will be vindicated if only in our basements where no one can hear us decry the loss of the good old days, unless the government has every corner of every building wired for sound by then.....


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

lizcrafts said:


> ….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!
> 
> Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


He is a indeed a laughing stock the world over and as for 'Leader of the free world' don't make me laugh and his daughter really is a rude entitlted air head, she is certaintly is not someone any women with any selfworth would look up to.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> Dear Liz - no one asked for your nasty _opinion_.


Please believe me, sweetheart - it's the 'opinion' of that 'majority' you refuse to recognise.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> Judging by the reaction you got to this, pesky reality is still unacceptable to some. When the USA is no longer a part of the "Free World," you will be vindicated if only in our basements where no one can hear us decry the loss of the good old days, unless the government has every corner of every building wired for sound by then.....


It certainly looks that way - doesn't it!!??

She really, really doesn't like to read the truth.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aisles said:


> He is a indeed a laughing stock the world over and as for 'Leader of the free world' don't make me laugh and his daughter really is a rude entitled air head, she is certainly is not someone any women with any self-worth would look up to.


These pictures of the "rude, entitled, air-head" say it all!!

https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a28245294/ivanka-trump-g20/

Quote from link/ "There are dozens of photos of the First Daughter straight up cackling in dignitaries' faces like she's a high school junior visiting her older sibling at college and trying to make friends at a frat party no one invited her to."

Enjoy - they're great if you need a laugh.
Liz


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## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

Now that's an example of hate speech.



lizcrafts said:


> ….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!
> 
> Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aubreys gramma said:


> Now that's an example of hate speech.


Try looking at the pictures in the link in my previous post - and then come back and argue with me - if you can!!

I don't 'hate' him or his daughter - that requires emotion, and they're not even worth that much effort.

I simply despise them both for the selfish fools that they are.


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

lizcrafts said:


> It certainly looks that way - doesn't it!!??
> 
> She really, really doesn't like to read the truth.


If there's one lesson I have learned on KP over the years, it's how many women aren't open to stark reality. There aren't enough men here to get a good sampling on where they stand.


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

Aubreys gramma said:


> Now that's an example of hate speech.


Lol, don't expect any self-awareness there...

(this ought to set them off for a few more pages...) :sm17:


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> Lol, don't expect any self-awareness there... :sm17:


Ahh. I see you haven't yet looked at the pictures of your "1st daughter(!!!)" making a total fool of herself at the G20.

Not much "self-awareness" shown there ……...was there?


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> (this ought to set them off for a few more pages...) :sm17:


You're absolutely hilarious!!!

I'm not the one wasting my Independence Day holiday, arguing with a stranger on the other side of the world!!!!!!

Liz


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

flyovercindy said:


> Dear Liz - no one asked for your nasty _opinion_.


Are you kidding? I always look forward to Liz' opinion! And I know that she will be polite and even tempered when she replies.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

CBratt said:


> Excellent. I love Ravelry's take on this. Inclusion and love are always good. I would love to see more sites do this. Good conquers over hate. Very proud to be a member of Ravelry!


Me too!


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> Are you kidding? I always look forward to Liz' opinion! And I know that she will be polite and even tempered when she replies.


Thank you very much Jeannne.

I hope you are well, and having a very enjoyable Independence Day.
Liz x


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

hilltopper said:


> *************
> 
> The people I know who support Pres. Trump are decent, intelligent and kind individual.


I hope that you can provide me with just ONE instance where Trump has shown himself to also be "decent, intelligent and kind". Oh - that's three attributes. So just choose one of these and provide ONE example. Thanks. Many of us will be interested in your reply.


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## Runner Girl (Mar 27, 2013)

lizcrafts said:


> ….and you presumably think that the 'thing' residing in the White House is the "Leader of the Free World"!!!!
> 
> Think again. He is a laughing stock the world over - and his "uninvited and unwelcome" daughter is nothing but a plastic, brainless, wannabe Barbie doll.


What ugly words! He is NOT the laughing stock the world over, and his daughter is very intelligent, poised, and strong - has to be to fend off the ugliness of people that are jealous of her. You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you really want to be that ugly toward people that you don't even know personally.


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## cbjllinda (Mar 6, 2016)

I think your priorities are wrong. you are a knitting and chrochet group. it was alright for people to send it nasty commnents and hat patterns against our president but when it backfired and others started going the other way you suddently decided it was hate speech I think you need to think about what you are doing. utube is lit up with designers and other people who have left your site never to return. no pattern source is worth giving up my self respect and letting someone tell me how to think or who I should be voting for. your side has spread so much hate and so many falshoods that it is unforgiveable. I was once a democtat but after seeing what you people have done to a president and his family that did nothing to deserve it. I have decided never again . I know many others who feel this way. I suspect that when the voting starts up again we will have another four years of president trump . I don't think many in our country are proud of the way you have acted. I for one will not miss you.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Runner Girl said:


> What ugly words! He is NOT the laughing stock the world over, and his daughter is very intelligent, poised, and strong - has to be to fend off the ugliness of people that are jealous of her. You need to look in the mirror and ask yourself if you really want to be that ugly toward people that you don't even know personally.


And you know that he is not a laughing stock?! How do you know that?? ….by watching Fox news?…. by listening to what trump tells you in his infantile tweets from the toilet!? Try watching the real news from around the globe. The US is neither the whole, nor the centre of the world - in spite of what you may think.

We can see trump for what he really is - a D-listing TV reality show presenter, who has lied and cheated his way into a position of power with Nazi-style propaganda-spewing rallies in which he goads his followers into the type of frenzy that was last seen in 1930s Nazi Germany.

And you fell for it all, just like they did back then, 80 years ago. The important difference is that you had the warning of history - they did not! That makes you more to blame for the consequences than they ever were.

As for his daughter - try looking at the pictures of her barging uninvited into Buckingham Palace or into the discussions at the G20. She looks like nothing more than the silly, 'entitled', spoiled brat she has been brought up to be.
Liz


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

lizcrafts said:


> And you know that he is not a laughing stock?! How do you know that?? ….by watching Fox news?…. by listening to what trump tells you in his infantile tweets from the toilet!? Try watching the real news from around the globe. The US is neither the whole, nor the centre of the world - in spite of what you may think.
> 
> We can see trump for what he really is - a D-listing TV reality show presenter, who has lied and cheated his way into a position of power with Nazi-style propaganda-spewing rallies in which he goads his followers into the type of frenzy that was last seen in 1930s Nazi Germany.
> 
> ...


Bravo Liz you have said it plainly and truthly. This idol worship of the trump family is both sickening and extremely sad. 'They have eyes yet they see not, they have ear yet the hear not, they do not remeber'


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## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

A snapshot can tell whatever story you want it to. BTW, if you look, you will see a man laughing with Ivanka. Any photo can be cropped or photoshopped, I would not look at what was published and come to the same conclusion as you have. Once again, when President Trump and his family is disliked/hated as much as it is everything is tainted by that feeling and reality has no bearing.



lizcrafts said:


> These pictures of the "rude, entitled, air-head" say it all!!
> 
> https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a28245294/ivanka-trump-g20/
> 
> ...


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aubreys gramma said:


> A snapshot can tell whatever story you want it to. BTW, if you look, you will see a man laughing with Ivanka. Any photo can be cropped or photoshopped, I would not look at what was published and come to the same conclusion as you have. Once again, when President Trump and his family is disliked/hated as much as it is everything is tainted by that feeling and reality has no bearing.


And what about the fact that he dragged his whole family to the UK? What is your slant on that? The whole tribe of them turned up….uninvited!

The Queen had to announce that all 50+ spare bedrooms at Buckingham Palace were under renovation just so she didn't have to have him sleep in the palace!

When President Obama was invited to the UK, he and Michelle stayed with her as her guests in the Palace.

That should tell you what we think of your present president. He had to stay in the US Embassy - they couldn't turn him away!!
Liz


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aubreys gramma said:


> A snapshot can tell whatever story you want it to. BTW, if you look, you will see a man laughing with Ivanka. Any photo can be cropped or photoshopped, I would not look at what was published and come to the same conclusion as you have. Once again, when President Trump and his family is disliked/hated as much as it is everything is tainted by that feeling and reality has no bearing.


BTW You forgot the video of her barging into the conversation at the G20 - you can't 'crop' facial expressions in a video!


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## Runner Girl (Mar 27, 2013)

lizcrafts said:


> And you know that he is not a laughing stock?! How do you know that?? ….by watching Fox news?…. by listening to what trump tells you in his infantile tweets from the toilet!? Try watching the real news from around the globe. The US is neither the whole, nor the centre of the world - in spite of what you may think.
> 
> We can see trump for what he really is - a D-listing TV reality show presenter, who has lied and cheated his way into a position of power with Nazi-style propaganda-spewing rallies in which he goads his followers into the type of frenzy that was last seen in 1930s Nazi Germany.
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, you don't know me and where I get my news, just as I don't know you and where you get your news. All I can say about you and people of your ilk is that you seem to have so much hate - and, for what? The US has had a number of bad apples in the White House, but after four or eight years, they are out of office, and a new person takes over; life goes on. All I can say about people of your ilk is that all the hate and name calling you spew is a symptom of something not right going on in your head/life. Feel sorry for you spending so much time hating instead of enjoying life. Also, there are many, many Americans who are enjoying the "consequences" of the 2016 election. Enough said.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Runner Girl said:


> Unfortunately, you don't know me and where I get my news, just as I don't know you and where you get your news. All I can say about you and people of your ilk is that you seem to have so much hate - and, for what? The US has had a number of bad apples in the White House, but after four or eight years, they are out of office, and a new person takes over; life goes on. All I can say about people of your ilk is that all the hate and name calling you spew is a symptom of something not right going on in your head/life. Feel sorry for you spending so much time hating instead of enjoying life. Also, there are many, many Americans who are enjoying the "consequences" of the 2016 election. Enough said.


I have a very happy and fulfilled life with my family, thank you.

The only thing that could possibly threaten that happiness is the blind stupidity of a poorly educated man who refuses to believe scientific fact and denies that human-induced Climate Change is real and happening all around the globe.

A man who is doing nothing to reduce the use of fossil fuels and the filth that they are putting into our air: who is doing nothing to prevent the pollution of your rivers and waterways and allowing that filth to flow into the oceans of the world: who is allowing the mining and over-development of some of the most beautiful areas of the planet…….and all to line his own pockets and those of his fat-cat friends!

I hope you live long enough for your grand children to curse you for being part of the ill-informed electorate that let "the consequences" happen to their world.

I am content to know that at least mine already realise that I am doing everything I can to prevent it happening.
Liz


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Aubreys gramma said:


> A snapshot can tell whatever story you want it to. BTW, if you look, you will see a man laughing with Ivanka. Any photo can be cropped or photoshopped, I would not look at what was published and come to the same conclusion as you have. Once again, when President Trump and his family is disliked/hated as much as it is everything is tainted by that feeling and reality has no bearing.


Have you seen the video of Ivanka at the G20 trying to push into the conservation between 4 world leaders Canada, France and the UK. The french put it onto their government website it's cringeworthy and shows her up as inept, rude, unwelcome, and clearly lacking. What oh what was she doing there where were you dipolmatic, your seasoned negoators and informed people?????


----------



## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aisles said:


> Have you seen the video of Ivanka at the G20 trying to push into the conservation between 4 world leaders Canada, France and the UK. The french put it onto their government website it's cringeworthy and shows her up as inept, rude, unwelcome, and clearly lacking. What oh what was she doing there where were you dipolmatic, your seasoned negoators and informed people?????
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Aubreys gramma (Dec 26, 2014)

And did you see the post from the French apologizing for a misconstrued clip. They stated that the impression you have was totally false.



Aisles said:


> Have you seen the video of Ivanka at the G20 trying to push into the conservation between 4 world leaders Canada, France and the UK. The french put it onto their government website it's cringeworthy and shows her up as inept, rude, unwelcome, and clearly lacking. What oh what was she doing there where were you dipolmatic, your seasoned negoators and informed people?????


----------



## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aubreys gramma said:


> And did you see the post from the French apologizing for a misconstrued clip. They stated that the impression you have was totally false.


They may have apologised about how it went viral, for diplomatic reasons (something the US seems to have forgotten how to use!), but the words about it still apply. They still say that her presence was "inappropriate" and describe it in the title as "mortifying"! They did not say that the impression gained from the interchange was in any way wrong.

Quote from link/ A short video released by France's presidential palace of Ivanka Trump awkwardly interacting with world leaders at the G-20 summit had a certain 'je ne sais quoi' that made it go viral over the weekend, and France insists it had no intention of humiliating the U.S. president's daughter. "We didn't anticipate the reaction, and once again, we are not responsible for the use made of the clip," an official with the Élysée said in a statement.

The video, in which IMF chief Christine Lagarde appears mystified at Trump's interjection to a comment by British Prime Minister Theresa May, encapsulated for many the high profile, enigmatic, and arguably inappropriate role Trump played during President Trump's trip to the G-20 summit in Osaka, Japan, and to South and North Korea. There were substantive critiques about nepotism and the dangers of diplomatic amateurism, and there was some snark, as in the #UnwantedIvanka photos on Twitter in which Ivanka Trump is photoshopped into all sorts of famous events, real and fictional. Chris Hayes covered both on MSNBC Monday night. /end quote

https://theweek.com/speedreads/850588/france-says-did-not-mean-embarrass-ivanka-trump-mortifying-g20-video

Try again, Aubreys gramma!!
Liz


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

flyovercindy said:


> Dear Liz - no one asked for your nasty _opinion_.


And just who was it that asked for your opinion? Liz has the right to express her opinion! It seems just a tad bit ridiculous for you to give your opinion, and then tell someone else that they should not do the same. Typical of a #45 supporter I guess.


----------



## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

cbjllinda said:


> I think your priorities are wrong. you are a knitting and chrochet group. it was alright for people to send it nasty commnents and hat patterns against our president but when it backfired and others started going the other way you suddently decided it was hate speech I think you need to think about what you are doing. utube is lit up with designers and other people who have left your site never to return. no pattern source is worth giving up my self respect and letting someone tell me how to think or who I should be voting for. your side has spread so much hate and so many falshoods that it is unforgiveable. I was once a democtat but after seeing what you people have done to a president and his family that did nothing to deserve it. I have decided never again . I know many others who feel this way. I suspect that when the voting starts up again we will have another four years of president trump . I don't think many in our country are proud of the way you have acted. I for one will not miss you.


Uh, say what? I think you have Ravelry mixed up with KP. You will not miss who? Nothing has backfired. Your whole post does not make sense.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

raindancer said:


> And just who was it that asked for your opinion? Liz has the right to express her opinion! It seems just a tad bit ridiculous for you to give your opinion, and then tell someone else that they should not do the same. Typical of a #45 supporter I guess.


Thanks raindancer.

Apparently, in flyovercindy's eyes, some KPers are "more equal than others".

Happy 4th of July to you and yours!! 
Liz x


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

It's been going on for at least 40 years. In some areas of the country for longer than that. Parents that have been taught little history and revisionist history & not taught civics can't teach their children what they don't know. My middle-aged dau came for a short stay to visit me & quizzed me on WW II. I was shocked to find out that subject was never even mentioned when she was in school.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

collectordolls said:


> That is so funny your stand up man turned his back on the only country in the Middle East yes I do mean Israel, who is our friend. Your standup guy promoted the race card whenever he could. Don't forget the detention centers were set up when he was President. He ripped children out of their mothers arms, but I guess it was OK because no one thought about it then. You are right he had integrity he knew how to play the system


Please read the dictionary to understand the word "Integrity". I understand that you have certainly never heard that word attributed to #45.

And no, it was not Obama that ripped children from their mother's arms! This was done by #45's orders just recently.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> These pictures of the "rude, entitled, air-head" say it all!!
> 
> https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a28245294/ivanka-trump-g20/
> 
> ...


Is that Tucker Carlson from Fox (Faux) news she's yukking it up with? He was there too, making up the entourage of unqualified "participants".


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

cbjllinda said:


> I think your priorities are wrong. you are a knitting and chrochet group. it was alright for people to send it nasty commnents and hat patterns against our president but when it backfired and others started going the other way you suddently decided it was hate speech I think you need to think about what you are doing. utube is lit up with designers and other people who have left your site never to return. no pattern source is worth giving up my self respect and letting someone tell me how to think or who I should be voting for. your side has spread so much hate and so many falshoods that it is unforgiveable. I was once a democtat but after seeing what you people have done to a president and his family that did nothing to deserve it. I have decided never again . I know many others who feel this way. I suspect that when the voting starts up again we will have another four years of president trump . I don't think many in our country are proud of the way you have acted. I for one will not miss you.


Who are you talking to?


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## Susie2016 (Feb 28, 2016)

Hush up everybody---the program "A Capitol Fourth" is on tv right now and it's wonderful!!! They are going to have the Wounded Warriors Band, other military bands, the O'Jays, and lots of other great music! Right now the O'Jays are singing The Love Train!!!!!! This is too cool!


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

raindancer said:


> Please read the dictionary to understand the word "Integrity". I understand that you have certainly never heard that word attributed to #45.
> 
> And no, it was not Obama that ripped children from their mother's arms! This was done by #45's orders just recently.


You are ill informed or have accepted a lie. Clinton signed the Congressional bill that authorized the same separations for illegal aliens as are done to US citizens that are jailed. Obama built the chain link cages & obeyed the law for separating children from adults. Trump obeyed the law for separating children from adults but built dormitories for the children within the monies Congress allotted. Trump has instituted a system of DNA checks due to the high frequency of child abuse by non related persons claiming to be "the parents". The two recent photos of children in cages shown around on the internet have had their time & date stamps *edited out* but are exactly the same photos as the ones bandied around the internet in 2014. Currently, it would be wrong to keep children kept with the adults they arrived with due to the very high percentage of them having no blood ties. Children are being both purchased and kidnapped to act as a ticket into the country if caught.


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> You are ill informed or have accepted a lie. Clinton signed the Congressional bill that authorized the same separations for illegal aliens as are done to US citizens that are jailed. Obama built the chain link cages & obeyed the law for separating children from adults. Trump obeyed the law for separating children from adults but built dormitories for the children within the monies Congress allotted. Trump has instituted a system of DNA checks due to the high frequency of child abuse by non related persons claiming to be "the parents". The two recent photos of children in cages shown around on the internet have had their time & date stamps *edited out* but are exactly the same photos as the ones bandied around the internet in 2014. Currently, it would be wrong to keep children kept with the adults they arrived with due to the very high percentage of them having no blood ties. Children are being both purchased and kidnapped to act as a ticket into the country if caught.


Bless you for trying to educate with accurate (and easily researched, if one cares) information, but you can't fix willful ignorance - best to just steer clear of the ugly aura of hate...
Have a lovely weekend!! 
:sm17:


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> You are ill informed or have accepted a lie. Clinton signed the Congressional bill that authorized the same separations for illegal aliens as are done to US citizens that are jailed. Obama built the chain link cages & obeyed the law for separating children from adults. Trump obeyed the law for separating children from adults but built dormitories for the children within the monies Congress allotted. Trump has instituted a system of DNA checks due to the high frequency of child abuse by non related persons claiming to be "the parents". The two recent photos of children in cages shown around on the internet have had their time & date stamps *edited out* but are exactly the same photos as the ones bandied around the internet in 2014. Currently, it would be wrong to keep children kept with the adults they arrived with due to the very high percentage of them having no blood ties. Children are being both purchased and kidnapped to act as a ticket into the country if caught.


Sad that people don't remember, or want to remember, these facts. My husband and I were just talking about all of this the other day.


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## Mspiggy253 (Apr 6, 2013)

I agree definitely awful people for sure. But there is a certain type of person who thinks he is just the best thing that ever happened. They are crazy in my opinion.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

Aubreys gramma said:


> And did you see the post from the French apologizing for a misconstrued clip. They stated that the impression you have was totally false.


Perhaps you can give the link to that?


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

Jeannne said:


> Perhaps you can give the link to that?


(asked because of this quote from Aubreys gramma "And did you see the post from the French apologizing for a misconstrued clip. They stated that the impression you have was totally false.")

Never mind. It's been done for you. https://theweek.com/speedreads/850588/france-says-did-not-mean-embarrass-ivanka-trump-mortifying-g20-video

Now tell me where you see "we're sorry" or any other words of apology. I only read an explanation from the French that they often post short clips of what happens at summits. They state that they did not intend to humiliate her, and that they are not responsible for how the clip is perceived by the viewers.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> (asked because of this quote from Aubreys gramma "And did you see the post from the French apologizing for a misconstrued clip. They stated that the impression you have was totally false.")
> 
> Never mind. It's been done for you. https://theweek.com/speedreads/850588/france-says-did-not-mean-embarrass-ivanka-trump-mortifying-g20-video
> 
> Now tell me where you see "we're sorry" or any other words of apology. I only read an explanation from the French that they often post short clips of what happens at summits. They state that they did not intend to humiliate her, and that they are not responsible for how the clip is perceived by the viewers.


Yes - that's the explanation I saw as well - The French say that they didn't *mean* to embarrass her - not that she shouldn't be embarrassed by how she had behaved! Two very different things!


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> Yes - that's the explanation I saw as well - The French say that they didn't *mean* to embarrass her - not that she shouldn't be embarrassed by how she had behaved! Two very different things!


Melania would not have embarrassed herself, or the USA!


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## stotter (Apr 8, 2012)

#IstandwithRavelry


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## PearlGirl (May 30, 2012)

Politics has NO place in knitting or other crafting sites. This should be a moot point and should have never even been an issue. The focus should only be on crafts, not personal opinions. There are many sites for that.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

PearlGirl said:


> Politics has NO place in knitting or other crafting sites. This should be a moot point and should have never even been an issue. The focus should only be on crafts, not personal opinions. There are many sites for that.


Have you ever knitted or crafted in a group? Was the entire conversation about your craft? No, people talk about their lives, the world, lunch, whatever. Should is a word shunned by most psychologists. Perhaps this subject would be more accepted if it were in General Chit Chat, but it is not. After 42 pages so far, it appears people do want to discuss this. Ravelry is a craft site. It is not completely out of line to see it come up here on this craft site. Don't scold, just move on.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


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## Ladyj960 (May 22, 2013)

Kerry Anne said:


> I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


Well said! If you enjoy Ravelry, though, don't leave because of this. Sometimes you have to look past the negativity and bias of others.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


Don't you think that this is a case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? I don't think for a moment that they will ever notice you've gone.


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


It's not about silencing people; it's about silencing hate speech. Rav isn't forcing you to share a certain view, but to make you realize that not all views are acceptable today. And hate based on religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, country of origin, etc. reflects that kind of blindness. That's what Rav is taking stance against.
And supporting Gay Pride via display of a rainbow flag is no more political than displaying an American (Canadian, U.K., etc.) flag. IMO


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

John's old lady said:


> It's not about silencing people; it's about silencing hate speech. Rav isn't forcing you to share a certain view, but to make you realize that not all views are acceptable today. And hate based on religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, country of origin, etc. reflects that kind of blindness. That's what Rav is taking stance against.
> And supporting Gay Pride via display of a rainbow flag is no more political than displaying an American (Canadian, U.K., etc.) flag. IMO


:~D!


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


Because they have a rainbow flag on their website, you say Ravelry is "forcing its views onto others"!!! Wow, you must never go out of your ivory tower. Obviously you DO have an opinion on people's gender orientation after all.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

raindancer said:


> Because they have a rainbow flag on their website, you say Ravelry is "forcing its views onto others"!!! Wow, you must never go out of your ivory tower. Obviously you DO have an opinion on people's gender orientation after all.


It certainly looks that way.
Liz


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

lizcrafts said:


> It certainly looks that way.
> Liz


Gee, I won't dare wear any of my AIDS or rainbow pins anymore to the LGBTQ group I attend then, will I? Some non-involved bystander might think I'm forcing my opinion on them.....


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

SAMkewel said:


> Gee, I won't dare wear any of my AIDS or rainbow pins anymore to the LGBTQ group I attend then, will I? Some non-involved bystander might think I'm forcing my opinion on them.....


No - best be careful!

Good night SAM, enjoy your evening.
Liz x


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> Gee, I won't dare wear any of my AIDS or rainbow pins anymore to the LGBTQ group I attend then, will I? Some non-involved bystander might think I'm forcing my opinion on them.....


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## whale watcher (Aug 30, 2017)

John's old lady said:


> It's not about silencing people; it's about silencing hate speech. Rav isn't forcing you to share a certain view, but to make you realize that not all views are acceptable today. And hate based on religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, country of origin, etc. reflects that kind of blindness. That's what Rav is taking stance against.
> And supporting Gay Pride via display of a rainbow flag is no more political than displaying an American (Canadian, U.K., etc.) flag. IMO


If everyone is accepted why is the "God is Love" hat deleted and the designer has been NOT been allowed to post ANY of her patterns???

admit it.....Ravelry has and always have had their own agenda. They are just to chicken to "man up"; be adults and admit it.


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## Shelly08 (Jul 4, 2011)

Good job, Ravelry! Thank you for standing firm on your position. And, in my humble opinion, you are correct.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

whale watcher said:


> If everyone is accepted why is the "God is Love" hat deleted and the designer has been NOT been allowed to post ANY of her patterns???
> 
> admit it.....Ravelry has and always have had their own agenda. They are just to chicken to "man up"; be adults and admit it.


Are you for real? Of course Ravelry has an agenda. They have every right to say what goes on regarding their website. I think they "manned up" just fine and made decisions the owners wanted. That is their privilege. As to your question, I cannot answer that, however the owners at Ravelry can answer it, I'm sure.

You might consider starting your own website where you have the say so about it.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I find all this very worrying. This is about silencing people, unless they share a certain view. Ravelry appears to be sharing its own political views while silencing those that it doesn't agree with. I notice that it has placed a rainbow flag on its website in support of Gay Pride, and while I don't have an opinion on people's gender orientation, this is a political statement. Therefore, it is forcing its views onto others. Either all people should be allowed to speak freely - or no one should. You can't readily make available your own political views while silencing others'. Because of their recent stance, I have decided to withdraw from Ravelry, which is a great shame because I used it frequently and got a lot of enjoyment from it.


Ravelry is trying to silence White Supremacy on it's privately owned site. As far as your leaving Ravelry, it's your loss. If you are not a White Supremacist, then why did you quit?


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

SAMkewel said:


> Gee, I won't dare wear any of my AIDS or rainbow pins anymore to the LGBTQ group I attend then, will I? Some non-involved bystander might think I'm forcing my opinion on them.....


...Gosh, some non-involved bystander might be super-traumatized by a piece of clothing wanting America to be great..., how heinous...! :sm16:


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> ...Gosh, some non-involved bystander might be super-traumatized by a piece of clothing wanting America to be great..., how heinous...! :sm16:


It's sad that you don't realize that the actions of this administration have defined the red hats as make America white again and that message from Breitbart and others worldwide are preaching isolation and supremacy. The majority of the world and USA just aren't having it anymore and many are taking a stand.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/07/christchurch-mosque-killer-ideas-mainstream-social-media

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/07/donald-trump-evangelical-supporters


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

knovice knitter said:


> Ravelry is trying to silence White Supremacy on it's privately owned site. As far as your leaving Ravelry, it's your loss. If you are not a White Supremacist, then why did you quit?


No. There is virtually no white supremacy extant in the USA. The Left claims it for the same reason that Communists used false claims to smear others. It is a socialist smear of anyone daring to have an opinion other than that dictated by the Left. Try it yourself...dare to offer an opinion slightly outside the group think & you'll find out that YOU are the next "white supremacist" or "racist" or "homophobe" or "Islamophobe" or "toxic patriarchy supporter".

PS...I quit because I don't want to associate with evil loons that lie and smear others for political ends or any other goal, ("smear" also known as "bearing false witness.")


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

RookieRetiree said:


> It's sad that you don't realize that the actions of this administration have defined the red hats as make America white again and that message from Breitbart and others worldwide are preaching isolation and supremacy. The majority of the world and USA just aren't having it anymore and many are taking a stand.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/07/christchurch-mosque-killer-ideas-mainstream-social-media
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/07/donald-trump-evangelical-supporters


Only a Leftist doesn't realize the guardian is far Leftist, a full fledged member of the MSM.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> Only a Leftist doesn't realize the guardian is far Leftist, a full fledged member of the MSM.


MSM = Main Stream Media??????!!!!!!!!!

Sounds pretty innocuous to me!


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

lizcrafts said:


> MSM = Main Stream Media??????!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Sounds pretty innocuous to me!


Sounds like you have never heard of Operation Mockingbird. Information that came out in about 1952 - 1956. My parents made sure I understood it's import.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> Only a Leftist doesn't realize the guardian is far Leftist, a full fledged member of the MSM.


Try again. Your words hold no basis.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=The+guardian


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> Only a Leftist doesn't realize the guardian is far Leftist, a full fledged member of the MSM.


Try again. Your words are not based on anything credible. 
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=The+guardian


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> Sounds like you have never heard of Operation Mockingbird. Information that came out in about 1952 - 1956. My parents made sure I understood it's import.


No!! And we don't have 'real' mockingbirds over here either -

But we *do* have 'real' news!!!
Liz


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## 197291 (Mar 9, 2019)

lizcrafts said:


> No!! And we don't have 'real' mockingbirds over here either -
> 
> But we *do* have 'real' news!!!
> Liz


You are on my ignore list for density.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> You are on my ignore list for density.


Thank you so very much. What an unexpected honour! I really didn't think I was that important.

I presume you don't like my wildlife and garden posts either - I'm more than a 'one trick pony', you know!!

After all, you wouldn't want to accidentally stumble on something really disagreeable - like a picture of a butterfly or a moth, or bumble bees on an Iris - would you!!?? It's a shame though - you might actually learn something!!!

I also post pictures of many of my knitting and crochet items - some using my own ideas and patterns.

I notice that you rely heavily on posting threads showing "other people's ideas"!!!!

Liz


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

raindancer said:


> Because they have a rainbow flag on their website, you say Ravelry is "forcing its views onto others"!!! Wow, you must never go out of your ivory tower. Obviously you DO have an opinion on people's gender orientation after all.


Not true! I grew up surrounded by gay friends. We used to go to gay nightclubs together. However, 'Gay Pride is' a political movement, and by showing it on the Ravelry website, they are giving a political opinion. If others are not allowed to voice their political views, then neither should Ravelry.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> Don't you think that this is a case of "cutting off your nose to spite your face"? I don't think for a moment that they will ever notice you've gone.


No, you're right, they won't notice I'm gone, but I'll know. If I stay then I am supporting a group which wishes to silence others. I believe we are all entitled to our own political views, however offensive they may be to others.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

John's old lady said:


> It's not about silencing people; it's about silencing hate speech. Rav isn't forcing you to share a certain view, but to make you realize that not all views are acceptable today. And hate based on religion, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, country of origin, etc. reflects that kind of blindness. That's what Rav is taking stance against.
> And supporting Gay Pride via display of a rainbow flag is no more political than displaying an American (Canadian, U.K., etc.) flag. IMO


I don't have a problem with them displaying the rainbow flag; it's the fact that they are doing it whilst silencing others' political views. It's one-sided.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, you're right, they won't notice I'm gone, but I'll know. If I stay then I am supporting a group which wishes to silence others. I believe we are all entitled to our own political views, however offensive they may be to others.


And as trump is trying to influence or silence many, both in his own country and around the world, I will support Ravelry in *their* decision - and enjoy their website too!!
Liz


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

SAMkewel said:


> Gee, I won't dare wear any of my AIDS or rainbow pins anymore to the LGBTQ group I attend then, will I? Some non-involved bystander might think I'm forcing my opinion on them.....


I think you're missing the point. You, yourself, should be allowed to display your own political views - but so should others. What Ravelry has done is one-sided and biased. No one should be silenced because their views are offensive to others - and that includes your own views. You have a right to express yourself whether it offends others or not.

And I'm not a non-involved bystander. I belong to Ravelry, just the same as everyone else, and I'm entitled to an opinion.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> Ravelry is trying to silence White Supremacy on it's privately owned site. As far as your leaving Ravelry, it's your loss. If you are not a White Supremacist, then why did you quit?


I think there's too much say about white supremacy. It seems to be the new buzz word. It's a way of keeping people in their box. It's just another way of silencing a group of people. Accusing me of white supremacy is just another way of shutting me up. I wonder if you would be so accusatory if I was a black or gay person with an opinion. I doubt it.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> No!! And we don't have 'real' mockingbirds over here either -
> 
> But we *do* have 'real' news!!!
> Liz


Are you sure about that - 'real' news, I mean! :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> Are you sure about that - 'real' news, I mean! :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


When compared to the garbage on Fox - Yes I'm totally sure!


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> Sounds like you have never heard of Operation Mockingbird. Information that came out in about 1952 - 1956. My parents made sure I understood it's import.


What on earth was operation mockingbird? I wasn't even born in the 50's also like Liz we are not Amerians we are British living in the UK. I'm assuming you are referring to something USA based.

Import where was it whatever it was imported from or to? Sorry but your post doesn't make much sense.

Alsot the Guardian is a British Newspaper.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> Not true! I grew up surrounded by gay friends. We used to go to gay nightclubs together. However, 'Gay Pride is' a political movement, and by showing it on the Ravelry website, they are giving a political opinion. If others are not allowed to voice their political views, then neither should Ravelry.


They own the site. I own my home. If I say I embrace all races and love my gay friends in my own home and a guest claimed they thought Michelle Obama is a tranny or an ape in heels (as some on this site have), I would toss them out of my house.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Aisles said:


> What on earth was operation mockingbird? I wasn't even born in the 50's also like Liz we are not Amerians we are British living in the UK. I'm assuming you are referring to something USA based.
> 
> Import where was it whatever it was imported from or to? Sorry but your post doesn't make much sense.
> 
> Also the Guardian is a British Newspaper.


It makes you wonder what other rubbish her parents told her.

And this is the 'America' that trump's followers all want to return to, I presume!!!! Heaven save us all!
Liz


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> They own the site. I own my home. If I say I embrace all races and love my gay friends in my own home and a guest claimed they thought Michelle Obama is a tranny or an ape in heels (as some on this site have), I would toss them out of my house.


Well said knovice knitter.

People are expected to 'behave' when they visit my home too! Otherwise, - no home-made coffee cake for them!!!

Liz


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> No. There is virtually no white supremacy extant in the USA. The Left claims it for the same reason that Communists used false claims to smear others. It is a socialist smear of anyone daring to have an opinion other than that dictated by the Left. Try it yourself...dare to offer an opinion slightly outside the group think & you'll find out that YOU are the next "white supremacist" or "racist" or "homophobe" or "Islamophobe" or "toxic patriarchy supporter".
> 
> PS...I quit because I don't want to associate with evil loons that lie and smear others for political ends or any other goal, ("smear" also known as "bearing false witness.")


No White Supremacy extant in the USA? Who were those fine people in polo shirts and khaki pants marching with tiki torches in Charlottesville? Who is Richard Spencer? Who is Christopher Cantwell?

https://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/articles/414934006-5-things-to-know-about-white-supremacist-groups/

In the last photo, the guy in the middle is the guy who drove his car into Heather Heyer and killer her during the White Supremacist rally.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I think there's too much say about white supremacy. It seems to be the new buzz word. It's a way of keeping people in their box. It's just another way of silencing a group of people. Accusing me of white supremacy is just another way of shutting me up. I wonder if you would be so accusatory if I was a black or gay person with an opinion. I doubt it.


I have no idea what color you are or whom you have in your bed. You don't have to shut up until KP decides you can't on this site anymore. I don't know anyone in the Black or Gay community who would support White Supremacy. Since you do, I can assume you do not belong to those groups.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> No White Supremacy extant in the USA? Who were those fine people in polo shirts and khaki pants marching with tiki torches in Charlottesville? Who is Richard Spencer? Who is Christopher Cantwell?
> 
> https://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/articles/414934006-5-things-to-know-about-white-supremacist-groups/
> 
> In the last photo, the guy in the middle is the guy who drove his car into Heather Heyer and killer her during the White Supremacist rally.


What a disgusting display! And that is what they call "Freedom of Speech"??

I'm very glad that our laws are different.
Liz


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> Not true! I grew up surrounded by gay friends. We used to go to gay nightclubs together. However, 'Gay Pride is' a political movement, and by showing it on the Ravelry website, they are giving a political opinion. If others are not allowed to voice their political views, then neither should Ravelry.


Gay Ride is an equal rights movement...social equity which doesn't need to be political or partisan.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, you're right, they won't notice I'm gone, but I'll know. If I stay then I am supporting a group which wishes to silence others. I believe we are all entitled to our own political views, however offensive they may be to others.


True which is why I boycott Hobby Lobby and other organizations forcing their viewpoints.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> I think you're missing the point. You, yourself, should be allowed to display your own political views - but so should others. What Ravelry has done is one-sided and biased. No one should be silenced because their views are offensive to others - and that includes your own views. You have a right to express yourself whether it offends others or not.
> 
> And I'm not a non-involved bystander. I belong to Ravelry, just the same as everyone else, and I'm entitled to an opinion.


They are a private forum and get to dictate what gets posted there as they are (and soon legally) liable for items posted. You are free to post your opinion on anything but pro trump which they've determined is a lightning rod to white supremacy hate speech. They are being cautious and responsible.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> I think there's too much say about white supremacy. It seems to be the new buzz word. It's a way of keeping people in their box. It's just another way of silencing a group of people. Accusing me of white supremacy is just another way of shutting me up. I wonder if you would be so accusatory if I was a black or gay person with an opinion. I doubt it.


There are way too many ties to white nationalism to the WH to be denied. The movement, especially with Bannon and Miller, is very actively recruiting and activating to action against all non white groups.


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

RookieRetiree said:


> Try again. Your words hold no basis.
> 
> https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=The+guardian


Thanks for introducing me to this site, which is a valuable resource for checking the reliability of published news.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Jeannne said:


> Thanks for introducing me to this site, which is a valuable resource for checking the reliability of published news.


There are several others too. Allsides.com is another one.

https://www.allsides.com/news-source/guardian

https://www.allsides.com/blog/better-way-get-unbiased-news-improved-headline-roundups


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## John's old lady (Jul 14, 2012)

whale watcher said:


> If everyone is accepted why is the "God is Love" hat deleted and the designer has been NOT been allowed to post ANY of her patterns???
> 
> admit it.....Ravelry has and always have had their own agenda. They are just to chicken to "man up"; be adults and admit it.


Per usual Irish, you missed the whole point. Not wasting my time trying to explain it to you. p.s. Not everyone believes in God or a god, so therefore might not perceive that hat as a neutral type of statement. Talk about agendas-jeez. :sm16:


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## Jeannne (Jan 25, 2013)

RookieRetiree said:


> There are several others too. Allsides.com is another one.
> 
> https://www.allsides.com/news-source/guardian
> 
> https://www.allsides.com/blog/better-way-get-unbiased-news-improved-headline-roundups


Excellent! I signed up for this - will give it a try.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

Mari Olsdatter said:


> No. There is virtually no white supremacy extant in the USA. The Left claims it for the same reason that Communists used false claims to smear others. It is a socialist smear of anyone daring to have an opinion other than that dictated by the Left. Try it yourself...dare to offer an opinion slightly outside the group think & you'll find out that YOU are the next "white supremacist" or "racist" or "homophobe" or "Islamophobe" or "toxic patriarchy supporter".
> 
> PS...I quit because I don't want to associate with evil loons that lie and smear others for political ends or any other goal, ("smear" also known as "bearing false witness.")


And the right wing will similarly label us all communists for being not quite right-wing enough. Works both ways.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

John's old lady said:


> Per usual Irish, you missed the whole point. Not wasting my time trying to explain it to you. p.s. Not everyone believes in God or a god, so therefore might not perceive that hat as a neutral type of statement. Talk about agendas-jeez. :sm16:


No, I think she does have a point. The hat was boycotted. Is that because some others do not believe in God. I thought Ravelry said they were supportive of religious freedom. So why did they remove the hat? And just because some people don't believe in God, should those who do be silenced? Surely they have as much right to express themselves as any other group of people.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, I think she does have a point. The hat was boycotted. Is that because some others do not believe in God. I thought Ravelry said they were supportive of religious freedom. So why did they remove the hat? And just because some people don't believe in God, should those who do be silenced?


It wasn't about one hat or one cowl...much more than that one person's actions.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> Thank you so very much. What an unexpected honour! I really didn't think I was that important.
> 
> I presume you don't like my wildlife and garden posts either - I'm more than a 'one trick pony', you know!!
> 
> ...


I figured you would handle with grace being dumped.

I love the pics of the bugs. Why do bumble bees wear yellow and black turtleneck tops?


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, I think she does have a point. The hat was boycotted. Is that because some others do not believe in God. I thought Ravelry said they were supportive of religious freedom. So why did they remove the hat? And just because some people don't believe in God, should those who do be silenced? Surely they have as much right to express themselves as any other group of people.


I need more information about this hate. Was it really removed from Ravelry? If so, did the designer have other patterns which whipped up scoops of racism, inequality or other horrendous beliefs? Was the designer a participant in one of Ravelry's forum groups and made pot-stirring declarations? I seriously doubt Ravelry would remove a hat pattern such as this unless there were other problems with the designer.


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## Aisles (Feb 26, 2013)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, I think she does have a point. The hat was boycotted. Is that because some others do not believe in God. I thought Ravelry said they were supportive of religious freedom. So why did they remove the hat? And just because some people don't believe in God, should those who do be silenced? Surely they have as much right to express themselves as any other group of people.


Was it removed by Ravelry or by the pattern owner? How does anyone know why or by whom it was removed. It might have been removed due to a copyright issuse for all we know or maybe it's been taken down in order to be replaced with some pattern alterations?


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

SQM said:
 

> I figured you would handle with grace being dumped.
> 
> I love the pics of the bugs. Why do bumble bees wear yellow and black turtleneck tops?


I'm glad you approve Slothy - I took a 10-minute break from the shot sun in the garden, and enjoyed myself writing it!! Apologies for using a couple of repeat photos - they are ones I had easily to hand on my desktop! I couldn't be bothered opening my Aperture library for anything more recent!

As for the bumble bees? That's what I knit them - so that's what they wear!!

It's actually supposed to be a warning colouration to keep predators off - though no-one told that to the Bee-eaters!

Liz x


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## SAMkewel (Mar 5, 2011)

flyovercindy said:


> ...Gosh, some non-involved bystander might be super-traumatized by a piece of clothing wanting America to be great..., how heinous...! :sm16:


Heinous only if no other article of clothing is worn :~D.


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

RookieRetiree said:


> It's sad that you don't realize that the actions of this administration have defined the red hats as make America white again and that message from Breitbart and others worldwide are preaching isolation and supremacy. The majority of the world and USA just aren't having it anymore and many are taking a stand.
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/07/christchurch-mosque-killer-ideas-mainstream-social-media
> 
> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jul/07/donald-trump-evangelical-supporters


...yeah, yeah - I read the guardian too...
It's sad that so many are so easily swayed...


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## Mary Diaz (Mar 30, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> Thank you so very much. What an unexpected honour! I really didn't think I was that important.
> 
> I presume you don't like my wildlife and garden posts either - I'm more than a 'one trick pony', you know!!
> 
> ...


Wow! Good pictures :sm02: :sm24:


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

Mary Diaz said:


> Wow! Good pictures :sm02: :sm24:


Thank you very much Mary Diaz. Photography and wildlife are two of my favourite past times - and it's better still when I can combine the two!!

Liz x


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Aisles said:


> Was it removed by Ravelry or by the pattern owner? How does anyone know why or by whom it was removed. It might have been removed due to a copyright issuse for all we know or maybe it's been taken down in order to be replaced with some pattern alterations?


Good point. Jumping to conclusions can cause serious injury.


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> I'm glad you approve Slothy - I took a 10-minute break from the shot sun in the garden, and enjoyed myself writing it!! Apologies for using a couple of repeat photos - they are ones I had easily to hand on my desktop! I couldn't be bothered opening my Aperture library for anything more recent!
> 
> As for the bumble bees? That's what I knit them - so that's what they wear!!
> 
> ...


We are so accustomed to seeing bee-eaters in our summer that I forget how rarely they are observed in the UK - so perhaps your bees are safe for now!


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## kittygritty (Mar 2, 2015)

Knitting in the Rockys said:


> Your definition of hate speech and mine are apparently very different. I see NO hate speech in their message at all. Quite the opposite actually.


 :sm24: :sm24:


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

berigora said:


> We are so accustomed to seeing bee-eaters in our summer that I forget how rarely they are observed in the UK - so perhaps your bees are safe for now!


You are absolutely right they are only rarely seen in the UK and even then usually only in the far South of the country. Several birds were seen in a quarry in Nottinghamshire in June 2017, and they hoped that they might even start nesting there, but I haven't heard any news of them since.

We have seen them in several places in Africa. They are very beautiful birds and fun to photograph. Somewhere I have pictures of several of them sitting in a row on a branch, each with a different insect in it's beak. I must look them out some time.

Liz


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> Not true! I grew up surrounded by gay friends. We used to go to gay nightclubs together. However, 'Gay Pride is' a political movement, and by showing it on the Ravelry website, they are giving a political opinion. If others are not allowed to voice their political views, then neither should Ravelry.


Again I say, you don't get out much do you? Ravelry is a privately owned business. I guess it is NOT your place to try to tell them how to run things! Do you walk into a market and tell them out to run their business?

Gay pride to me at least, is not a political movement. It is a human rights movement, yes. The gay have been down trodden far too long. They are not 2nd class citizens!


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I think you're missing the point. You, yourself, should be allowed to display your own political views - but so should others. What Ravelry has done is one-sided and biased. No one should be silenced because their views are offensive to others - and that includes your own views. You have a right to express yourself whether it offends others or not.
> 
> And I'm not a non-involved bystander. I belong to Ravelry, just the same as everyone else, and I'm entitled to an opinion.


You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! You are not however, entitled to dictate how a privately owned business conducts that business.


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

RookieRetiree said:


> Gay Ride is an equal rights movement...social equity which doesn't need to be political or partisan.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> No, I think she does have a point. The hat was boycotted. Is that because some others do not believe in God. I thought Ravelry said they were supportive of religious freedom. So why did they remove the hat? And just because some people don't believe in God, should those who do be silenced? Surely they have as much right to express themselves as any other group of people.


What in the world are you asking this question here on KP? I have heard (this is in no way a fact!) that some of the people had their patterns removed because they were given their last warning to behave on the discussion board, but they refused. So the people and their patterns are now gone. Again, this is what I heard 2nd hand.

Why not go directly to the Ravelry site and pose your questions???


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## raindancer (Aug 19, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> I'm glad you approve Slothy - I took a 10-minute break from the shot sun in the garden, and enjoyed myself writing it!! Apologies for using a couple of repeat photos - they are ones I had easily to hand on my desktop! I couldn't be bothered opening my Aperture library for anything more recent!
> 
> As for the bumble bees? That's what I knit them - so that's what they wear!!
> 
> ...


Liz, those photos are wonderful! And I do so love the adorable outfits you made for the bees too! You can post these kinds of photos often I hope!


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## berigora (Nov 27, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> No White Supremacy extant in the USA? Who were those fine people in polo shirts and khaki pants marching with tiki torches in Charlottesville? Who is Richard Spencer? Who is Christopher Cantwell?
> 
> https://www.policeone.com/Crowd-Control/articles/414934006-5-things-to-know-about-white-supremacist-groups/
> 
> In the last photo, the guy in the middle is the guy who drove his car into Heather Heyer and killer her during the White Supremacist rally.


And don't forget these "very fine" people of Potter County, Pennsylvania: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-07/potter-county-residents-decry-the-neo-nazi-next-door/11243672


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

raindancer said:


> Liz, those photos are wonderful! And I do so love the adorable outfits you made for the bees too! You can post these kinds of photos often I hope!


I'm very glad you like them, raindancer. My knitting suffers greatly in the summer as, if I'm not gardening, I usually have a camera in my hand!

The bee outfits require tiny needles and hair-like yarn - but I have passed on the patterns and materials to the Queen Bee and they should all be self sufficient soon!!!

As you can see the one in the photo below has been experimenting with eyelash yarn - rather fetching in my opinion!!

Liz x


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

raindancer said:


> What in the world are you asking this question here on KP? I have heard (this is in no way a fact!) that some of the people had their patterns removed because they were given their last warning to behave on the discussion board, but they refused. So the people and their patterns are now gone. Again, this is what I heard 2nd hand.
> 
> Why not go directly to the Ravelry site and pose your questions???


Because we are discussing it on here, are we not???

Regarding the 'God' hats:

http://michellemalkin.com/2019/06/28/exclusive-god-is-love-build-the-wall-walk-away-and-choose-life-knitted-hats-all-banned-on-ravelry-photos/


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> I have no idea what color you are or whom you have in your bed. You don't have to shut up until KP decides you can't on this site anymore. I don't know anyone in the Black or Gay community who would support White Supremacy. Since you do, I can assume you do not belong to those groups.


I don't think my black relatives would agree that I'm a white supremacist :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

berigora said:


> And don't forget these "very fine" people of Potter County, Pennsylvania: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-07/potter-county-residents-decry-the-neo-nazi-next-door/11243672


Holy Cow! And Mari believes this isn't going on? I thought the chart was interesting as in 2014, there was a big dip in the number of groups. And look where we are now. Excellent link. Thank you.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> I don't think my black relatives would agree that I'm a white supremacist :sm09: :sm09: :sm09:


Do they know you support trump who is a white supremacist?


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## flyovercindy (Jan 24, 2013)

knovice knitter said:


> Do they know you support trump who is a white supremacist?


...I don't know about Kerry Ann's, but mine support our president - and wouldn't if we thought he was a "white supremacist"...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> I'm very glad you like them, raindancer. My knitting suffers greatly in the summer as, if I'm not gardening, I usually have a camera in my hand!
> 
> The bee outfits require tiny needles and hair-like yarn - but I have passed on the patterns and materials to the Queen Bee and they should all be self sufficient soon!!!
> 
> ...


I love that fuzzy bee and flower. While I got you, explain the difference between Great Britain and The United Kingdom and why I don't hear England anymore and where Northern Ireland fits in this puzzle. Thanks.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I love that fuzzy bee and flower. While I got you, explain the difference between Great Britain and The United Kingdom and why I don't hear England anymore and where Northern Ireland fits in this puzzle. Thanks.


Great Britain is the largest island of the many islands (over 6000 in total!) comprising the geographical British Isles. There are 3 countries making up this single island - England, Scotland and Wales and they form 3 of the 4 countries making up the UK.

Ireland is the next largest of the islands involved. It is split politically into 2 countries. The Republic of Ireland which is the southern (and larger part) is a self-governing, independent country within the EU in it's own right.

The north eastern corner of the island of Ireland is known politically as Northern Ireland. This part of Ireland forms the 4th of the countries which comprise the UK. It is in the EU through being a part of the UK. This is why the Republic of Ireland/Northern Ireland border is such a sticking point in the EU negotiations. At this point of time both countries are within the EU with no physical border for people or goods. This will be more difficult if one side is part of the EU whilst the other side is not.

England is a separate country within the UK, but it's capital, London, is where the Parliament of the four countries comprising the UK sits i.e. Westminster.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have Legislative Assemblies in their capital cities (Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast respectively) but these assemblies have more restricted powers than Westminster.

I hope that makes some kind of sense!!
Liz xxx

PS I'm glad you like my bee and flower. They are much more within my field of expertise than all this stuff!!!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lizcrafts said:


> Great Britain is the largest island of the many islands (over 6000 in total!) comprising the geographical British Isles. There are 3 countries making up this single island - England, Scotland and Wales and they form 3 of the 4 countries making up the UK.
> 
> Ireland is the next largest of the islands involved. It is split politically into 2 countries. The Republic of Ireland which is the southern (and larger part) is a self-governing, independent country within the EU in it's own right.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your clear special ed explanation. You are from Northern Ireland in your past life. So I assume you are Catholic?????????


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks for your clear special ed explanation. You are from Northern Ireland in your past life. So I assume you are Catholic?????????


No. My parents were actually very staunch Protestants - Northern Irish Presbyterian no less!!!!

My husband and I were married in a Presbyterian church. After we graduated we came over to live in England and attended C of E services for quite a few years.

However, a combination of reading and study, along with the negative feelings towards organised religion that living in a country, war-torn through religious differences, can leave you with, we both 'drifted away' from any sort of religion, or belief in any 'higher power'.

And now you know absolutely everything!!!! Hope I've explained what you wanted to know.
Liz x


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

flyovercindy said:


> ...I don't know about Kerry Ann's, but mine support our president - and wouldn't if we thought he was a "white supremacist"...


Perhaps you should take another look at what he does and what he says. It is clear to most that trump is at least a White Nationalist if not a full-fledged Supremacist.


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## knovice knitter (Mar 6, 2012)

Kerry Anne said:


> Because we are discussing it on here, are we not???
> 
> Regarding the 'God' hats:
> 
> http://michellemalkin.com/2019/06/28/exclusive-god-is-love-build-the-wall-walk-away-and-choose-life-knitted-hats-all-banned-on-ravelry-photos/


The patterns do support trump and his racist wall, so they have been removed or denied according to the new policy. I'm guessing (don't know) that the designer has been vocal on the forums. Her name, deplorable knitter, tells me she was pretty upset with Clinton's remark during the election year and isn't getting over it.


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## ManyClouds (Sep 29, 2012)

knovice knitter said:


> Do they know you support trump who is a white supremacist?


I've never once mentioned whether or not I support Trump. Where did you get that from? :sm06: I'm not going to discuss Trump because he's not my president. I'm not American, and out of respect for all the Americans on this website, I'm not going to comment either way.


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## RookieRetiree (Jan 27, 2011)

knovice knitter said:


> The patterns do support trump and his racist wall, so they have been removed or denied according to the new policy. I'm guessing (don't know) that the designer has been vocal on the forums. Her name, deplorable knitter, tells me she was pretty upset with Clinton's remark during the election year and isn't getting over it.


So she acts deplorably to reinforce it's accuracy.


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## gigi 722 (Oct 25, 2011)

knitbin said:


> I totally agree! And now they're just digging their hole deeper.


 :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


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## JennyG12 (Jan 24, 2016)

gigi 722 said:


> :sm24: :sm24: :sm24:


Oh a Ravelry hater to revive a topic 6 months since dead.....And replying to a posting on page 1 of 24!
:sm25: :sm25: :sm25:


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## KnittingNut (Jan 19, 2011)

So proud to be a member of Ravelry.


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## lizcrafts (Dec 15, 2011)

JennyG12 said:


> Oh a Ravelry hater to revive a topic 6 months since dead.....And replying to a posting on page 1 of 24!
> :sm25: :sm25: :sm25:


Only if you accept three infantile 'thumbs up' as a "reply"!!!!!

It looks like an inability to form words into a meaningful sentence to me …………... rather like trump himself, in fact!!!
Liz x


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## mossstitch (Nov 6, 2013)

Bandy01 said:


> There is so much bad information you have been given.
> 
> First of all, in your first comment, the word ACCUSED is very important. Most of the women who came out to accuse him have been proven as false. They are doing anything they can to discredit him. Check the REAL facts. The rest I'm sure are being checked out. It's a witch hunt. You can't believe everything you read or everything you hear.
> 
> ...


Still a great country , with a warped , so called ' President '.


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