# Things are heating up in the world #6



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You seem to have forgotten that some pregnancies result in natural miscarriages. A miscarriage is the end of a potential life.


That is part of the circle of life, not the intentional destruction and murder of a life


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Chaste? or chased? In either case, I don't trust you to judge others' behavior. You've gotten it wrong a couple of times.


The supreme judge is judging?????????????


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> That is part of the circle of life, not the intentional destruction and murder of a life


In a sense, a miscarriage is more than the death of a potential human being. It's also the death of hope. If you like to paint this as "part of the circle of life", that's your problem. However, you show yourself to be lacking in sympathy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Tsk tsk, all this yelling.
> 
> For someone that was/is studying to be Catholic, what a sinful thing to say about God's unborn children


Say what? I said, in brief, is that abortion *might* be a greater tragedy than the massacre of the 5 Jews who were at prayer. Than doesn't seem sinful at all. Where is the sin in that? My point, which you delight in ignoring, is that *some tragedies deserve to stand alone instead of being compared to any other tragedy.* You want to dilute the horror of the slaughter of five living humans. This strikes me as showing a lack of sympathy. Put your thinking cap on, locate your shriveled heart and soul, and see if you can manage to understand a simple concept.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> True words
> 
> By the way Maid aka Seattle was studying to be Catholic, but I guess that went by the side; probably because she supports the killing of the unborn and the Church will not budge on that issue.


And I am appalled at your profession of Catholicism every time you blast Obama, his family, all Democrats, people who are "libs" and anyone who disagrees with you. You have more groups and people in your gun sight, but I'll leave it at that. I'm surprised you haven't blasted Pope Francis on income inequality, which I'm sure you think is an evil, socialistic concept that has no place in American life. So you are the last person who should be denigrating someone's performance as a Christian.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is no such thing as *potential life*. Once the egg is fertilized there is *LIFE*.


In your opinion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Joey, so true. She is just trying to justify her absolutely correct outrage over the massacre in the Temple but still justifying her approval of abortion.


Exactly.

A correction: "the Temple" refers to the Holy Temple, Solomon's Temple. A place where Reform Jews pray is just a lower-case temple, but these men were Orthodox and thus were in a synagogue.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Not worth bothering to say anything to joeysomma.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I thought it began when the posts were implying that LTL must be anti-semitic and you added that I was complicit with her.
> 
> And continued on when you said that I was even less respectful than LTL.
> 
> ...


No need to be sorry, though it felt like insult to me. This is continuing to be tedious, however, and today is a new day. So I hope you're well and enjoying the sun. And you can gloat because though it's sunny up here, the high will be 42 degrees.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'll say this again, *some tragedies demand to stand on their own. * The deaths of unborn children might not be similarly tragic. Has it never occurred to you that the deaths of unborn children might be a greater tragedy? *Don't you understand the importance of not detracting from the tragedy of one event by comparing it to any other events?*


Well said. It shouldn't need saying, but it does. Thank you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> I favor the green approach. How much would it cost to rent this guy for an hour or two?


He's very cute. I bet if you flirt with him, he'll work for peanuts. Or ants. Mission accomplished.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Tsk tsk, all this yelling.
> 
> For someone that was/is studying to be Catholic, what a sinful thing to say about God's unborn children


I think you missed what she said. Maybe if you read it slowly...

And when did you become the Church's emissary to KP? Don't you think God can handle her himself?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The supreme judge is judging?????????????


That's better than the Supreme Court going courting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Say what? I said, in brief, is that abortion *might* be a greater tragedy than the massacre of the 5 Jews who were at prayer. Than doesn't seem sinful at all. Where is the sin in that? My point, which you delight in ignoring, is that *some tragedies deserve to stand alone instead of being compared to any other tragedy.* You want to dilute the horror of the slaughter of five living humans. This strikes me as showing a lack of sympathy. Put your thinking cap on, locate your shriveled heart and soul, and see if you can manage to understand a simple concept.


She didn't even read what you wrote, or not with any understanding. She assumed what she wanted to assume, and was wrong again.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And I am appalled at your profession of Catholicism every time you blast Obama, his family, all Democrats, people who are "libs" and anyone who disagrees with you. You have more groups and people in your gun sight, but I'll leave it at that. I'm surprised you haven't blasted Pope Francis on income inequality, which I'm sure you think is an evil, socialistic concept that has no place in American life. So you are the last person who should be denigrating someone's performance as a Christian.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Science has determined it life, once the egg is fertilized.
> You can call it anything you want, but it is LIFE.


Plant life is also life. Must I stop eating celery?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Both God and science agree that life begins when the egg is fertilized.


You think you know what God agrees to. I beg to differ.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm wondering why the renewed interest in the abortion debate. We all know the arguments and we all have our viewpoints that are not going to change. Liberal ladies, let's deny the religious right the audience for their ravings - it never ends well, anyway.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Science has determined it life, once the egg is fertilized.
> You can call it anything you want, but it is LIFE.


And it's still a tragedy of great proportion whether Nature murders it or a woman does. I swear, you must have had an abortion and now you're so guilt ridden you are compelled to protest against abortion, which happens to be legal, no matter what you or I think of that. I both loathe and pity you.

I haven't been pro-choice for a long time, but can't imagine joining the pro-life movement you support. All you pro-lifers care is one thing and one thing one thing only, the birth of a baby. After that, the family the child is born into gets to deal with that child, and you consider this some kind of victory. Sick, sick, sick.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She didn't even read what you wrote, or not with any understanding. She assumed what she wanted to assume, and was wrong again.


How right you are.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Both God and science agree that life begins when the egg is fertilized.


Was God a guest on Dr. Phil and made His great revelation there?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> .


Wow! The great joeysomma has been rendered speechless. Praise the Lord! Oooops, I missed your impressive cartoon. And, darned if I don't disagree. .Death is achieved when the soul leaves the body. Oh, and guess what?, the heart has to exist for it to beat. Look up when that happens in utero.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post. Drat!!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tsk tsk. Judging for God.



lovethelake said:


> Tsk tsk, all this yelling.
> 
> For someone that was/is studying to be Catholic, what a sinful thing to say about God's unborn children


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> The supreme judge is judging?????????????


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> In a sense, a miscarriage is more than the death of a potential human being. It's also the death of hope. If you like to paint this as "part of the circle of life", that's your problem. However, you show yourself to be lacking in sympathy.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Love your violas.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Beyond her ability. Hopefully God will consider that..or not.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Say what? I said, in brief, is that abortion *might* be a greater tragedy than the massacre of the 5 Jews who were at prayer. Than doesn't seem sinful at all. Where is the sin in that? My point, which you delight in ignoring, is that *some tragedies deserve to stand alone instead of being compared to any other tragedy.* You want to dilute the horror of the slaughter of five living humans. This strikes me as showing a lack of sympathy. Put your thinking cap on, locate your shriveled heart and soul, and see if you can manage to understand a simple concept.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Cookie.


cookiequeen said:


> And I am appalled at your profession of Catholicism every time you blast Obama, his family, all Democrats, people who are "libs" and anyone who disagrees with you. You have more groups and people in your gun sight, but I'll leave it at that. I'm surprised you haven't blasted Pope Francis on income inequality, which I'm sure you think is an evil, socialistic concept that has no place in American life. So you are the last person who should be denigrating someone's performance as a Christian.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Love your violas.


They're my deceased husband's former avatar. Seemed like a good idea to think of him.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love to discuss ideas with you directly at any time.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Not worth bothering to say anything to joeysomma.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I think you missed what she said. Maybe if you read it slowly...
> 
> And when did you become the Church's emissary to KP? Don't you think God can handle her himself?


...or her herself? :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Love to discuss ideas with you directly at any time.


PM me. We might have some interesting things to say to each other.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> The end of a LIFE, period.


More like the end of a Period, period.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And I am appalled at your profession of Catholicism every time you blast Obama, his family, all Democrats, people who are "libs" and anyone who disagrees with you. You have more groups and people in your gun sight, but I'll leave it at that. I'm surprised you haven't blasted Pope Francis on income inequality, which I'm sure you think is an evil, socialistic concept that has no place in American life. So you are the last person who should be denigrating someone's performance as a Christian.


And I am not surprised at your continued proof of not understanding most things. Most devote Catholics oppose Obama's socialistic policies, obamacare's destruction of Religious Freedom, stance on abortion, birth control....

You have taken the Holy Father's words out of context. He was talking to the world not to the United States. He called the basic needs for land, housing and work an "aspiration that should be within the reach of all .... He did not promote the redistribution of wealth. Notice he used the word 'aspiration' not 'right'?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> More like the end of a Period, period.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> And I am not surprised at your continued proof of not understanding most things. Most devote Catholics oppose Obama's socialistic policies, obamacare's destruction of Religious Freedom, stance on abortion, birth control....
> 
> You have taken the Holy Father's words out of context. He was talking to the world not to the United States. He called the basic needs for land, housing and work an "aspiration that should be within the reach of all .... He did not promote the redistribution of wealth. Notice he used the word 'aspiration' not 'right'?


Inequality is the root of social evil. That's his one-sentence tweet. Time for you to stop criticizing Obama and everyone else for their beliefs and policies as morally wrong. Did you ever stop to think that your right-wing agenda is more than a little out of whack with the Pope's? You continue to rationalize your own beliefs to make them coincide with the Pope's and the teachings of Jesus. It's too bad. I don't think you'll ever "get it." Just go about your misguided way of life and keep spouting the junk you have twisted up in your brain. Just don't call the junk the teachings of Jesus or the Church.

P.S. The last time I checked the US was part of the world.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> And I am not surprised at your continued proof of not understanding most things. Most devote Catholics oppose Obama's socialistic policies, obamacare's destruction of Religious Freedom, stance on abortion, birth control....
> 
> You have taken the Holy Father's words out of context. He was talking to the world not to the United States. He called the basic needs for land, housing and work an "aspiration that should be within the reach of all .... He did not promote the redistribution of wealth. Notice he used the word 'aspiration' not 'right'?


Ok. I'll bite. What religious freedom did President Obama take away from you? As far as I read, you can practice your religion while being insured. What *exact* socialistic policies are you referring to? 
Either you have really gone around the bend or you choose to be ignorant. Or is it because you have the constant need to complain? All of the above would be my answer.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Inequality is the root of social evil. That's his one-sentence tweet. Time for you to stop criticizing Obama and everyone else for their beliefs and policies as morally wrong. Did you ever stop to think that your right-wing agenda is more than a little out of whack with the Pope's? You continue to rationalize your own beliefs to make them coincide with the Pope's and the teachings of Jesus. It's too bad. I don't think you'll ever "get it." Just go about your misguided way of life and keep spouting the junk you have twisted up in your brain. Just don't call the junk the teachings of Jesus or the Church.
> 
> P.S. The last time I checked the US was part of the world.


LTL lives in her own world, cookie, no matter how sick and twisted it may be.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Did anyone listen to Obama? I did. He seemed to have played the humanist card but it will change the course of many people's lives. And the Republicans should be happy. These immigrants do not join unions - at least up to now. Uh oh! Maybe now it will be safe to unionize. That sounds good.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Did anyone listen to Obama? I did. He seemed to have played the humanist card but it will change the course of many people's lives. And the Republicans should be happy. These immigrants do not join unions - at least up to now. Uh oh! Maybe now it will be safe to unionize. That sounds good.


I though he nailed it!! I will commit a sin and turn on that dirty, filthy,lying fox noise channel and laugh at all of the ticked off Repugs.
Boehner is probably stroking by now, Cruz is standing there insisting that the President of the free world has no authority, and Mitch McConnell is probably choking on his tongue. Should be fun!!

I see nothing wrong with playing the "humanist" card. This effects human beings.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I though he nailed it!! I will commit a sin and turn on that dirty, filthy,lying fox noise channel and laugh at all of the ticked off Repugs.
> Boehner is probably stroking by now, Cruz is standing there insisting that the President of the free world has no authority, and Mitch McConnell is probably choking on his tongue. Should be fun!!
> 
> I see nothing wrong with playing the "humanist" card. This effects human beings.


I agree, Patty. Needless to say, I liked Obama's speech and the GOP's outrage was absolutely the cherry on the sundae. Can't wait to see what they do next--let the fun begin!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It's so funny watching these repugs and their beet red faces.
This deserves popcorn! Listening to Megan Kelly rewriting his speech is hilarious!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Here's a piece about the general GOP reaction--yes, it's from Fox, but I couldn't resist:

Republicans ready to do whatever it takes to halt Obama immigration plan
By Kelley Beaucar VlahosPublished November 20, '

Republicans say they will do whatever it takes to halt a White House plan to use an executive order to prevent millions of undocumented immigrants in the United States from being deported.

Tempers on Capitol Hill have flared to the point where Sen. Tom Coburn, R-Okla., even suggested there might be violence in the streets if President Obama goes through with his plan, which was to be unveiled in a national address at the White House tonight.

Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, said in an op-ed in Politico Wednesday that if Obama acts, the new GOP majority in the Senate should retaliate by not acting on a single one of his nominees  executive or judicial  so long as the illegal amnesty persists.

Obama has been accused of acting like an emperor with absolute powers, and GOP lawmakers have promised that his actions wont be met without some sort of political barricade  whether it be at the purse strings, in court, or by filibustering future immigration policy, along with Obamas nominees. The GOP won enough seats in the midterm elections to take over the majority of the Senate come January, while the House majority grew by 12 seats, giving them a 246-199 advantage over the Democrats, according to the most recent tallies.

If Emperor Obama' ignores the American people and announces an amnesty plan that he himself has said over and over again exceeds his Constitutional authority, he will cement his legacy of lawlessness and ruin the chances for Congressional action on this issue  and many others, said Michael Steel, spokesman for Republican House Speaker John Boehner.

According to the plan, the president will use his pen to give deferred action status to upwards of four million people, and similar protections to another one million by other means. This means the recipient cannot be deported for at least two years. Immigrants will have to meet certain qualifications and cannot have a criminal record to be eligible.

While such action will not give these immigrants access to federal benefits, like health care tax credits, Medicaid or food stamps, a number of them will be eligible for state services, new federal work permits, and Social Security cards, according to administration officials who have spoken to reporters this week.

The administration and its Democratic backers have argued in recent days that the Republicans failure to pass reforms through Congress has forced the president to take action to alleviate the countrys illegal immigration problem. A comprehensive immigration bill passed the Senate in 2013 but has not been taken up by the House since. Weve been waiting a year for House Republicans to come to a vote, White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said Wednesday.

Were confident it would pass with bipartisan support, he added.

All Boehner would have to do is bring it up for a vote, Democratic Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said in a podcast interview with Univision journalist Fernando Espuelas. But in the meantime, the president must do this  and he should go big; I want him to go as big as he can.

If he does, Republicans say there will be equally big trouble.

This countrys going to go nuts, because theyre going to see it as a move outside the authority of the president, and its going to be a very serious situation, said Coburn in an interview with USA Today. Youre going to see  hopefully not  but you could see instances of anarchy you could see violence.

Republicans see several avenues for stopping the new protections from going forward. They might gum up any appropriations associated with the deferred actions, though it wasnt clear Thursday what that might be. They might sue the White House in court, though legal scholars differ on whether they would have a case. Texas Gov. Rick Perry said this week that his state, which spends $12 million a year securing the border with Mexico, might sue Obama, too.

Calling the president the Emperor of the United States, Sen. Jeff Sessions, R-Ala., suggested that hitting at the funding level might be the first course of action. Congress should fund the government while ensuring that no funds can be spent on this unlawful action, he said in a statement Wednesday.

Obamas move sparked a number of comparisons with monarchies, the Revolutionary War, and tyranny, with Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, going so far as to say that not even King George III had such power over the American colonists in 1776. It is no exaggeration to say the freedom of the American people is at stake, he said.

Rep. Randy Forbes, R-Va., predicted doom. Were going to be headed for a constitutional crisis that the presidents making, he told Lou Dobbs on the Fox Business Network on Wednesday. Hes going to poison this well so much that were not going to be able to do the fixes that we really need to do reform the immigration system.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> And I am appalled at your profession of Catholicism every time you blast Obama, his family, all Democrats, people who are "libs" and anyone who disagrees with you. You have more groups and people in your gun sight, but I'll leave it at that. I'm surprised you haven't blasted Pope Francis on income inequality, which I'm sure you think is an evil, socialistic concept that has no place in American life. So you are the last person who should be denigrating someone's performance as a Christian.


cookiequeen
thank you. You are not alone in that assessment.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Patty. Needless to say, I liked Obama's speech and the GOP's outrage was absolutely the cherry on the sundae. Can't wait to see what they do next--let the fun begin!


susanmos2000
The Repuglicans should bite themselves in their backside for not doing anything on Immigration. Dang, they are so stupid but their theatrics are a pleasure to observe. When your party has two clowns like Rush Bimbo and The Donald calling the shots, the Circus keeps on performing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> More like the end of a Period, period.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Very good.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put Queenie. Give that girl a cookie.



cookiequeen said:


> Inequality is the root of social evil. That's his one-sentence tweet. Time for you to stop criticizing Obama and everyone else for their beliefs and policies as morally wrong. Did you ever stop to think that your right-wing agenda is more than a little out of whack with the Pope's? You continue to rationalize your own beliefs to make them coincide with the Pope's and the teachings of Jesus. It's too bad. I don't think you'll ever "get it." Just go about your misguided way of life and keep spouting the junk you have twisted up in your brain. Just don't call the junk the teachings of Jesus or the Church.
> 
> P.S. The last time I checked the US was part of the world.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Here's a piece about the general GOP reaction--yes, it's from Fox, but I couldn't resist:
> 
> Republicans ready to do whatever it takes to halt Obama immigration plan
> By Kelley Beaucar VlahosPublished November 20, '
> ...


susanmos2000
thank you for posting this. Good to keep for using on a banner down the road. And these folks are Lawyers. That sure does not put a feather in the Chapeau for their profession. Sounds more like they could not hack it in the competitive world for obvious reasons.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or someone is telling her what to say and believe. Now WHO could that be?



BrattyPatty said:


> Ok. I'll bite. What religious freedom did President Obama take away from you? As far as I read, you can practice your religion while being insured. What *exact* socialistic policies are you referring to?
> Either you have really gone around the bend or you choose to be ignorant. Or is it because you have the constant need to complain? All of the above would be my answer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope they vote. Many are eligible but afraid to exercise their rights.

I thought the President gave a well-reasoned speech.



SQM said:


> Did anyone listen to Obama? I did. He seemed to have played the humanist card but it will change the course of many people's lives. And the Republicans should be happy. These immigrants do not join unions - at least up to now. Uh oh! Maybe now it will be safe to unionize. That sounds good.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Repugs are mad. President is doing his job, unlike them.



BrattyPatty said:


> !


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so glad he took the initiative. Nothing to wait for. Delay. Delay. Delay.



susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, Patty. Needless to say, I liked Obama's speech and the GOP's outrage was absolutely the cherry on the sundae. Can't wait to see what they do next--let the fun begin!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor babies. There's nothing they can do. They can't even tie their own shoelaces these days. They are good whiners though. Give credit where credit is due.



susanmos2000 said:


> Here's a piece about the general GOP reaction--yes, it's from Fox, but I couldn't resist:
> 
> Republicans ready to do whatever it takes to halt Obama immigration plan
> By Kelley Beaucar VlahosPublished November 20, '
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> The Repuglicans should bite themselves in their backside for not doing anything on Immigration. Dang, they are so stupid but their theatrics are a pleasure to observe. When your party has two clowns like Rush Bimbo and The Donald calling the shots, the Circus keeps on performing.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lovely thought. Lovely flower.



MaidInBedlam said:


> They're my deceased husband's former avatar. Seemed like a good idea to think of him.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Repugs are mad. President is doing his job, unlike them.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


They had their chance. They had a year and a half to come up with a bill and did nothing. The President is well within his perimeter of authority to call this into action. These repugs do not understand that he is a constitutional scholar and has consulted with constitutional lawyers to make sure what he did was legal. But NOOO, the repugs won't accept that.
John Boehner said they would have a plan for an immigration overhaul over 500 days ago. Guess what? He didn't and the 113th Congress failed to write a bill. Bad move on their part.
They had to know that this was coming.
Now let's see what the broken party will do now. Will they shut the gov't down? Will they block any other bill that the President wants? (Of course they will. Why stop now?) Sounds like they are going to block any of the President's appointee nominations. For what? Because the President is doing his job? Keeping his promise to fix the broken immigration system?
Repugs have been voting against their better interests for years.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> They had their chance. They had a year and a half to come up with a bill and did nothing. The President is well within his perimeter of authority to call this into action. These repugs do not understand that he is a constitutional scholar and has consulted with constitutional lawyers to make sure what he did was legal. But NOOO, the repugs won't accept that.
> John Boehner said they would have a plan for an immigration overhaul over 500 days ago. Guess what? He didn't and the 113th Congress failed to write a bill. Bad move on their part.
> They had to know that this was coming.
> Now let's see what the broken party will do now. Will they shut the gov't down? Will they block any other bill that the President wants? (Of course they will. Why stop now?) Sounds like they are going to block any of the President's appointee nominations. For what? Because the President is doing his job? Keeping his promise to fix the broken immigration system?
> Repugs have been voting against their better interests for years.


.....but they're getting away with it. I don't get it. 
:?: :?: :?: :?:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> .....but they're getting away with it. I don't get it.
> :?: :?: :?: :?:


I think we are going to see a more aggressive President Obama in these next 2 years. Honestly, in any other business if people weren't doing their jobs, they would be fired. Maybe it should be that way for lazy obstructionist representatives and senators on the right.

I don't get it either,dame. They have done nothing for the American people. They have blocked any bills that would be good for Americans. They are only interested in what the Koch Bros tell them and how much money they receive from them.
Too bad that the republican congress is so corrupt and can be bought by special interest groups.
Strange, I thought they were voted in to work for us! I can only wonder if Jan will bring any change or the same old do nothing
Congress again.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> They had their chance. They had a year and a half to come up with a bill and did nothing. The President is well within his perimeter of authority to call this into action. These repugs do not understand that he is a constitutional scholar and has consulted with constitutional lawyers to make sure what he did was legal. But NOOO, the repugs won't accept that.
> John Boehner said they would have a plan for an immigration overhaul over 500 days ago. Guess what? He didn't and the 113th Congress failed to write a bill. Bad move on their part.
> They had to know that this was coming.
> Now let's see what the broken party will do now. Will they shut the gov't down? Will they block any other bill that the President wants? (Of course they will. Why stop now?) Sounds like they are going to block any of the President's appointee nominations. For what? Because the President is doing his job? Keeping his promise to fix the broken immigration system?
> Repugs have been voting against their better interests for years.


John Boehner has other priorities.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What he's doing should be illegal.



DGreen said:


> John Boehner has other priorities.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think we are going to see a more aggressive President Obama in these next 2 years.


I think so too, Patty. And it's high time. One of the best decisions Obama ever made was to take a stand on the ACA last fall and not let the Repugs bully him into putting off the implementation. They responded of course by shutting down the government, and it backfired in a most satisfying way.

Frankly, I'm dying to see how the GOP leaders try to handle this latest. Doesn't seem like they have a lot of options--the agency in charge of implementing this latest reform is self-funded, so trying to strangle it by playing games with the budget is probably useless...a Republican lawsuit would probably fail in court as the President has historically been given a lot of leeway in this context.

Who knows what how they plan to deal with this? Should be fascinating to watch them try to cobble some plan of attack together!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Did anyone listen to Obama? I did. He seemed to have played the humanist card but it will change the course of many people's lives. And the Republicans should be happy. These immigrants do not join unions - at least up to now. Uh oh! Maybe now it will be safe to unionize. That sounds good.


It's always a good time to unionize.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> There is no such thing as *potential life*. Once the egg is fertilized there is *LIFE*.


Ah! The dreams and hopes that go into that life! I just found out last night, that my daughter in law is carrying quadruplets! Now I'm filled with anguish and fear, hoping that those dear, sweet lives won't be extinguished, though not by choice!

Why is it that, when a baby is wanted, it's a baby right from conception? Mommies and daddies are celebrating and planning their baby's future. Their dreams begin, the very moment they find out they're expecting. And yet, if a baby isn't wanted, there are those who deceive themselves into thinking it isn't a baby at all. It saddens me.

I agree with you! A baby is a baby, whether it's wanted or not.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah! The dreams and hopes that go into that life! I just found out last night, that my daughter in law is carrying quadruplets! Now I'm filled with anguish and fear, hoping that those dear, sweet lives won't be extinguished, though not by choice!
> 
> Why is it that, when a baby is wanted, it's a baby right from conception? Mommies and daddies are celebrating and planning their baby's future. Their dreams begin, the very moment they find out they're expecting. And yet, if a baby isn't wanted, there are those who deceive themselves into thinking it isn't a baby at all. It saddens me.
> 
> I agree with you! A baby is a baby, whether it's wanted or not.


Oh my gosh, Nebraska! That's really something. I too hope that all goes well! Warm up those knitting needles--imagine knitting for FOUR newborn grandchildren at once!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh my gosh, Nebraska! That's really something. I too hope that all goes well! Warm up those knitting needles--imagine knitting for FOUR newborn grandchildren at once!


Thanks, Susan! Right now, we're all in a state of shock! Before fertilization, the doctor said there were only two ripe eggs. But somehow, two more ripened very quickly? We're all scared, thinking about the triplets. But I've decided to put aside my fear and celebrate!

You're right! I'll be knitting like crazy! As soon as I get my Christmas knitting done. I was doing so well. I started last summer. But now at the last minute, my new step granddaughter has requested infinity scarves for Christmas. Ack! I'm not even ready for Thanksgiving yet, and I'm having 15 people! Then, I'm having 18 for Christmas! I'm going crazy just thinking about it! Hubby is not quite recovered yet and is suffering side effects from his new meds. I need a break! Knitting baby clothes is just what I need! Taking a deep breath!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> John Boehner has other priorities.


DGreen
you see, he needs to increase his income because Martinis and Cigarettes are getting more and more expensive. Am I the only one observing that his speeches any time of the day are getting more slurred? Poor guy being on a tether having to dance to the tune of idiots like Cruz. Cruz seems to be practicing for an audition for acting. He must be spending a lot of time in front of a mirror, admiring himself and his antics.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think we are going to see a more aggressive President Obama in these next 2 years. Honestly, in any other business if people weren't doing their jobs, they would be fired. Maybe it should be that way for lazy obstructionist representatives and senators on the right.
> 
> I don't get it either,dame. They have done nothing for the American people. They have blocked any bills that would be good for Americans. They are only interested in what the Koch Bros tell them and how much money they receive from them.
> Too bad that the republican congress is so corrupt and can be bought by special interest groups.
> ...


Bratty Patty
I too am sure President Obama won't lay low the next 2 years. I much enjoyed his speech. As always filled with important information.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks, Susan! Right now, we're all in a state of shock! Before fertilization, the doctor said there were only two ripe eggs. But somehow, two more ripened very quickly?


Could well be...or perhaps the eggs split and there are now two sets of identical twins in there? Either way it's exciting. Congrats!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Congrats, KFN! Quads!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

KFN

Mazel tov.
Mazel tov.
Mazel tov.
Mazel tov.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> The Repuglicans should bite themselves in their backside for not doing anything on Immigration. Dang, they are so stupid but their theatrics are a pleasure to observe. When your party has two clowns like Rush Bimbo and The Donald calling the shots, the Circus keeps on performing.


Oh please. Obama has had 6 years to get immigration reform passed. Why hasn't he? Especially during the first 2 years of his presidency, when he had both the House and Senate. His actions say that he had no intention of getting it passed despite promising the Latino community he would during his first year. What a surprise, another lie and another insight into the real Barrak Obama.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you see, he needs to increase his income because Martinis and Cigarettes are getting more and more expensive. Am I the only one observing that his speeches any time of the day are getting more slurred? Poor guy being on a tether having to dance to the tune of idiots like Cruz. Cruz seems to be practicing for an audition for acting. He must be spending a lot of time in front of a mirror, admiring himself and his antics.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please. Obama has had 6 years to get immigration reform passed. Why hasn't he? Especially during the first 2 years of his presidency, when he had both the House and Senate. His actions say that he had no intention of getting it passed despite promising the Latino community he would during his first year. What a surprise, another lie and another insight into the real Barrak Obama.


He's spent those 6 years trying to work with Republicans on it, with no luck. Now he's decided to just go ahead and at least do the bit he can do on his own. He gave another invitation in his speech last night for Congress to help pass a law. I doubt they'll take him up on it, though.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Congrats, KFN! Quads!


WOW!! I pray that Mother and the quads all do well.

What a wonderful thing. You must be ecstatic! My Prayers are with you and your family. Shirley


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Bratty Patty

thank you for the orange Boy's picture. That is what the reports from those around him depict and his drinking and smoking has much increased since the Tea Party put the Harness on him.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh please. Obama has had 6 years to get immigration reform passed. Why hasn't he? Especially during the first 2 years of his presidency, when he had both the House and Senate. His actions say that he had no intention of getting it passed despite promising the Latino community he would during his first year. What a surprise, another lie and another insight into the real Barrak Obama.


soloweygirl
oh please, President Obama had more urgent things to take care of like getting our dear Soldiers out of the Hell Hole Iraq, the housing Market tanked and unemployment was at almost an all time high. Are you a clairvoyant and can tell us what his "actions say"? I know, I know no matter what our President says and does, you create some kind of fictional account from it. And you want us to believe that you care about the Latino community? That is hilarious. Now I am laughing out loud.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> 
> thank you for the orange Boy's picture. That is what the reports from those around him depict and his drinking and smoking has much increased since the Tea Party put the Harness on him.


Well, a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down...!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, a spoon full of sugar makes the medicine go down...!


* Hic...the medishin go down


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> He's spent those 6 years trying to work with Republicans on it, with no luck. Now he's decided to just go ahead and at least do the bit he can do on his own. He gave another invitation in his speech last night for Congress to help pass a law. I doubt they'll take him up on it, though.


sumpleby
President Obama gave the Republicans many chances to fly right and right they went, just about over the cliff into a hole from which there is no certain escape. In 6 years the Republicans have nixed EVERYTHING the President put on the table. I am surprised that he still even tries. I would be looking for every little hole to creep through and undermine them. Tough to do I know but our time will come to repay those irrelevant Representatives of ours. Why are we still paying them? We need to revolt. Since the Republicans are for "smaller Government", let's make it smaller by kicking out those who do nothing for WE THE PEOPLE. People Power is real Power.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

If the repugs are this angry over immigration, they will explode when President Obama vetoes the Keystone Pipeline deal.!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I think so too, Patty. And it's high time. One of the best decisions Obama ever made was to take a stand on the ACA last fall and not let the Repugs bully him into putting off the implementation. They responded of course by shutting down the government, and it backfired in a most satisfying way.
> 
> Frankly, I'm dying to see how the GOP leaders try to handle this latest. Doesn't seem like they have a lot of options--the agency in charge of implementing this latest reform is self-funded, so trying to strangle it by playing games with the budget is probably useless...a Republican lawsuit would probably fail in court as the President has historically been given a lot of leeway in this context.
> 
> Who knows what how they plan to deal with this? Should be fascinating to watch them try to cobble some plan of attack together!


Susanmos2000
Yes, the ACA was a major undertaking and for fifty some years everyone who tried was unsuccessful. I am so proud that President Obama got it through. Quite a historic accomplishment. Just think that now your Brother cannot be kicked out of his Insurance no matter what. That has to be a great relief for all of you. I wish your Brother well.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> sumpleby
> President Obama gave the Republicans many chances to fly right and right they went, just about over the cliff into a hole from which there is no certain escape. In 6 years the Republicans have nixed EVERYTHING the President put on the table. I am surprised that he still even tries. I would be looking for every little hole to creep through and undermine them. Tough to do I know but our time will come to repay those irrelevant Representatives of ours. Why are we still paying them? We need to revolt. Since the Republicans are for "smaller Government", let's make it smaller by kicking out those who do nothing for WE THE PEOPLE. People Power is real Power.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> And I am not surprised at your continued proof of not understanding most things. Most devote Catholics oppose Obama's socialistic policies, obamacare's destruction of Religious Freedom, stance on abortion, birth control....
> 
> You have taken the Holy Father's words out of context. He was talking to the world not to the United States. He called the basic needs for land, housing and work an "aspiration that should be within the reach of all .... He did not promote the redistribution of wealth. Notice he used the word 'aspiration' not 'right'?


lovethelake
".....destruction of religious freedom?" Holy Cow, you are going bunkers, aren't you, poor thing. You folks never take even the Pope's actual words as fact, you even have to twist what he says. Start unraveling, you are so twisted that soon you will be without Oxygen. At least this Pope has
humanity in him and is not afraid to voice his opinions. Finally a Pope who does not see himself as a God but a Mortal.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Plant life is also life. Must I stop eating celery?


Poor Purl
having Turkey for Thanksgiving ? - know what I mean.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Susanmos2000
> Yes, the ACA was a major undertaking and for fifty some years everyone who tried was unsuccessful. I am so proud that President Obama got it through. Quite a historic accomplishment. Just think that now your Brother cannot be kicked out of his Insurance no matter what. That has to be a great relief for all of you. I wish your Brother well.


Thanks, Huck. Yes, Brother has good insurance, and I've certainly seen no decline in the quality of care he's received the implementation of the ACA.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> sumpleby
> President Obama gave the Republicans many chances to fly right and right they went, just about over the cliff into a hole from which there is no certain escape. In 6 years the Republicans have nixed EVERYTHING the President put on the table. I am surprised that he still even tries. I would be looking for every little hole to creep through and undermine them.


So true, Huck. If Boehner's so concerned about this he can retrieve that stack of legislation he's been using to keep his butt cheeks warm and get to work on it. Enough is enough.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Also posted elsewhere - but I think it's an important and interesting analysis of the recent election. By a republican, no less:

Please forgive me for the cut and paste, but this is an encouraging analysis for liberals.

**************************************

A GOP strategist, columnist at the Houston Chronicle who goes by the handle GOPLifer, Chris Ladd, has declared that the week of the Midterm Elections was a dark week for Republicans, and for everyone who wants to see America remain the worlds most vibrant, most powerful nation. What the HELL! Where was he?

In a careful analysis, Ladd builds a case: The Midterms of 2014 demonstrate the continuation of a 20 year old trend. Republicans are disappearing from the competitive landscape at the national level where the population is the largest utilizing a declining electoral base of waging, white, and rural voters. As a result no GOP candidate on the horizon has a chance at the White House in 2016 and the chance of holding the Senate beyond 2016 is vanishingly small.

The author points to the Blue Wall.

The Blue Wall is a block of states that no Republican Presidential candidate can realistically hope to win. On Election Day that block added New Hampshire to its number and Virginia is shifting At the outset of any Presidential campaign, a minimally effective Democratic candidate can expect to win 257 electoral votes out of the 270 needed to win. If Virginia joins New Hampshire that number will be 270 out of 270. 
To win a GOP candidate has to win all nine tossup state and one solidly Blue state.
Thus, in the next, and into the foreseeable future, Presidential elections will be decided in the Democratic Primary. What are the chances that a Republican candidate capable of appealing to the increasingly right wing GOP will appeal to enough Democrats to win in tossup and Blue states?

But what about that RED Map.well it accounts for 149 electoral votes. The biggest Republican victory in decades did not move the map. What was Red before in electoral politics is still Red (and maybe less Red considering NH and VA).

Republican support grew deeper in 2014, not broader.


Some other observations
a) Republican Senate candidates lost every single race in the Blue Wall. 
b) There were some GOP victories in Governors races, but in each case there were no coat tails. None of these candidates ran on social issues, Obama, or opposition to the ACA. Look at Rauner who took out Quinn in Illinois, but Democrats in Illinois retained their supermajority in the State Assembly having not lost a single seat.

c) Voter turnout was awful. It was more awful for the Democrats but the GOP won 52 percent of 35 percent of the vote: in other words their mandate is 17 percent of the registered electorate (and 13 percent of those eligible to vote).

d) Good news for the Democrats: They have consolidated their power behind the sections of the country that generate the overwhelming bulk of Americas wealth outside the energy industry.

e) Voter suppression is working remarkably well, but that wont last. They key is voter ID. Eventually Democrats will top whining and will help people get the documentation they need to meet confusing new requirements and obstructions. The whole voter integrity sham may have given Republicans a one or maybe two-election boost in low-turnout races, but the message to minority (but growing) groups is clear. We GOP dont give a damn about you.

f) Every major Democratic ballot initiative was successful, including every minimum wage increase, even in the red states. AND every personhood amendment failed.

g) Half of the Republican Congressional delegation now comes from the former Confederacy. There are no more white Democrats from the South. All of the Dixiecrats are now GOP.

h) Democrats in 2014 were up against a particularly tough climate because they had to defend 13 Senate seats in red or purple states. In 2016 Republicans will be defending 24 Senate seats with at least 18 of them very competitive based on geography and demographics. Democrats will be one seat looks competitive.

i) McConnells conciliatory statements were encouraging, but he cannot persuade Republican Senators and Congressmen to cooperate on anything constructive.

j) This is an age built for Republican solutions. The global economy is undergoing a massive, accelerating transformation that promises massive new wealth and staggering challenges. Ladd say that the GOP could address a this with heads-up, intelligent adaptations to capitalize on those challenges. Republicans, with their traditional leadership on commercial issues, he claims, should be at the leading edge of planning to capitalize on this emerging environment.

k) Instead, he predicts, what the GOP will spend its time on is: Climate denial, theocracy, thinly veiled racism, paranoia, and Benghazi hearings.

He closes his essay saying: It is almost too late for Republicans to participate in shaping the next wave of our economic and political transformation. The opportunities we inherited coming out of the Reagan Era are blinking out of existence one by one while we chase so-called issues so stupid, so blindingly disconnected from our emerging needs that our grandchildren will look back on our performance in much the same way that we see the failures of the generation that fought desegregation. Something, some force, some gathering of sane, rational, authentically concerned human beings generally at peace with reality must emerge in the next four to six years from the right, or our opportunity will be lost for a long generation. Needless to say, Greg Abbott and Jodi Ernst are not that force. Winning this election did not help that force emerge.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> If the repugs are this angry over immigration, they will explode when President Obama vetoes the Keystone Pipeline deal.!


Bratty Patty
and a veto is what I am hoping for.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Also posted elsewhere - but I think it's an important and interesting analysis of the recent election. By a republican, no less:
> 
> Please forgive me for the cut and paste, but this is an encouraging analysis for liberals.
> 
> ...


DGreen
Thank you very much.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

WoW, DGreen! Thanks for sharing this. There is some powerful thinking in this.
Didn't quote reply to save space


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Could well be...or perhaps the eggs split and there are now two sets of identical twins in there? Either way it's exciting. Congrats!


More scary than exciting! None of us want to repeat the very worst time of our lives. I'm praying and praying and praying!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Congrats, KFN! Quads!


Thanks, Patty!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> KFN
> 
> Mazel tov.
> Mazel tov.
> ...


Thank you! 
Thank you!
Thank you!
Thank you!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> WOW!! I pray that Mother and the quads all do well.
> 
> What a wonderful thing. You must be ecstatic! My Prayers are with you and your family. Shirley


Thank you, Shirley! Your prayers are important to me!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Need more coffee to wake up enough to post.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> More scary than exciting! None of us want to repeat the very worst time of our lives. I'm praying and praying and praying!


I can imagine...well, prayers going up here (and a great big hug as well. I'm sure everything will be fine)!!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I can imagine...well, prayers going up here (and a great big hug as well. I'm sure everything will be fine)!!


Thank you so much, Susan!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> He's spent those 6 years trying to work with Republicans on it, with no luck. Now he's decided to just go ahead and at least do the bit he can do on his own. He gave another invitation in his speech last night for Congress to help pass a law. I doubt they'll take him up on it, though.


Nice try. Obama had 2 years where he could have passed a law without the Republicans, just as he did with Obamacare. He didn't want to then and he doesn't want to now. It's all about his image and legacy.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Also posted elsewhere - but I think it's an important and interesting analysis of the recent election. By a republican, no less:
> 
> Please forgive me for the cut and paste, but this is an encouraging analysis for liberals.


Ladd's take on the mid-term elections is fascinating. I've been wondering who the heck can the Republicans field in the 2016 Presidential election. There seems to be incredible fragmentation in the GOP, enough to make me wonder if any of the fragments will form a large enough coalition to win in 2016.

I'm also feeling pretty good about Jerry Brown being reelected as Governor of California. California needs continuity at the highest level of leadership. We might even get a new water plan that'll work. After all, Jerry's dad Pat developed CA's last water plan 50 years ago. The central valley in CA was once predominantly a desert (dessert?). Bringing water from neighboring states changed much of that, but with the drought we're seeing large areas of agricultural land returning to their original conditions.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> California has lost agricultural land, but they have saved the Delta Smelt.


Would you expand on this comment please?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> More scary than exciting! None of us want to repeat the very worst time of our lives. I'm praying and praying and praying!


I am too -- Hang in there friend!


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> http://www.kcra.com/news/battle-brewing-over-calfiornias-delta-smelt/24474942


First of all there has not been a decision. Second, if the ( mainly corporate) farmers are worried about their water sources and amount of available water, then they need to stop the cracking in the Central Valley .


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Go back a few years to see when the controversy started and find the amount of land that did not receive water, then. This has been going on a long time. Who is more important, people getting food to eat or the life of a smelt? The government and environmentalists have their priorities in the wrong place!


Not a surprise we differ on this issue.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent point, goddess.



peacegoddess said:


> First of all there has not been a decision. Second, if the ( mainly corporate) farmers are worried about their water sources and amount of available water, then they need to stop the cracking in the Central Valley .


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Argh :!: :!: Bad keyboard...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Not a surprise we differ on this issue.


Not a surprise at all. One has to wonder why Sean Hannity is so interested in this topic.

Ooooh... another "government overreach" and onerous regulation - the Endangered Species Act.

Another example of right-wing mouthpieces trying to frame the conversation claiming that small farmers are being harmed, when the major water users are agri-business. Why is he not screaming about Nestle?

While Nestle continues to export water in Cabazon despite the record drought in California, the local water supply has continued to diminish. Aside from local residents, many citizens throughout all of California have shown their disdain with the Swiss companys bottling operation. Nestle stated that the Cabazon plant was made to sustain the local water supply, but water researchers suggest that the percentage of water allowed to be extracted should be significantly lowered during the drought. According to other researchers, Nestle and its smaller company Arrowhead are both known to bleed communities dry of water before taking business elsewhere.
Read more at http://guardianlv.com/2014/08/nestle-continues-to-export-california-water-despite-record-drought/#Phjy3tdtrjIq14Er.99


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Satire alert. But what about those greedy fish?



DGreen said:


> Not a surprise at all. One has to wonder why Sean Hannity is so interested in this topic.
> 
> Ooooh... another "government overreach" and onerous regulation - the Endangered Species Act.
> 
> ...


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> This is something few seem to care about, the devastating effect the ACA has on our economy.
> 
> Effects of the Affordable Care Act on Economic Productivity
> 
> ...


Casey Mulligan University of Chicago????? I am from Chicago and go back frequently. Never even heard of this "university". What and where is it?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Joeysomma, sorry it was typo..I meant fracking.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Joeysomma,

There are numerous small farmers throughout California who are also strong and dedicated environmentalists. They practice a water conservation type of 
farming that sustains their crops while utilizing less water. They are the farmers I see and talk to at my local farmers market. They are concerned by the water wastefulness of huge corporate farms and the poisonous fracking in the Central Valley, that many corporate farms are leasing fallow land for fracking.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Try putting "University of Chicago" in your search engine, then you will find it.


Don't need to do that but who is that person you added to the name?


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Fracking has nothing to do with the Delta Smelt that caused the problems in 2008.


Fracking has everything to do with water use in the Central Valley and farming. If big ah is really concerned with water use they could protest the fracking and save Delta water, the smelt, and the land that is poisoned by the fracking.....they don't because it is. It in their big ag profit motive interests to do so .


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> If you go to the website, it will explain.


As wonderful as the U of C is, it has an ultra-conservative business school. Not interested in their brand of scholarship.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Casey Mulligan University of Chicago????? I am from Chicago and go back frequently. Never even heard of this "university". What and where is it?


Casey Mulligan (professor at the University of Chicago) writes a conservative blog. For example, he thinks the recession wasn't caused by a demand shock but is instead a "redistribution recession" caused by the fact that shifts in labor market incentives have made it less worthwhile to work.

Draw your own conclusions as to why some conservatives on this site are quoting him.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Thanks Bright Green for doing that research for me.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Thanks Bright Green for doing that research for me.


Anytime!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you read nothing in the article. So you don't care about all the double taxation, the fact that the workers are paying for those who do not.
> The fact that ACA is forcing more into a non-living wage, when the libs are calling for a living wage, and the ACA is saying a 30 hour week is acceptable as a living wage.
> 
> Then, you equate Conservatives as stupid, without reading anything they have to say. Just maybe, they are right, and someday you will wish you had read what they had to say.


Peut Etre. (I hope this is the right French word. )


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Inquiring minds want to know.



SQM said:


> Casey Mulligan University of Chicago????? I am from Chicago and go back frequently. Never even heard of this "university". What and where is it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the complete explanation.



DGreen said:


> Casey Mulligan (professor at the University of Chicago) writes a conservative blog. For example, he thinks the recession wasn't caused by a demand shock but is instead a "redistribution recession" caused by the fact that shifts in labor market incentives have made it less worthwhile to work.
> 
> Draw your own conclusions as to why some conservatives on this site are quoting him.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Satire alert. But what about those greedy fish?


Like the rest of California, the fish have a drinking problem.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> As wonderful as the U of C is, it has an ultra-conservative business school. Not interested in their brand of scholarship.


And watch out for anything coming out of their economics department.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Peut Etre. (I hope this is the right French word. )


It certainly is. Though it's written _peut-être_.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It certainly is. Though it's written _peut-être_.


I have Apple's Magic mouse which can do marvelous things but that is how it spelled for me. As long as I recalled the right word.

Are you heating up your knitting needles my making anything? I am bored with my projects and need to heat up my brain with a another wip.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Why not think about Shirley's Workshop in January....design your own sweater to fit....using your stash and creative textures? Lots of suggestions on stitches and methods listed beforehand. I've heard quite a few people we know are interested.



SQM said:


> I have Apple's Magic mouse which can do marvelous things but that is how it spelled for me. As long as I recalled the right word.
> 
> Are you heating up your knitting needles my making anything? I am bored with my projects and need to heat up my brain with a another wip.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is something few seem to care about, the devastating effect the ACA has on our economy.
> 
> Effects of the Affordable Care Act on Economic Productivity
> 
> ...


joeysomma
well, all of our Hospitals are expanding by leaps and bounds. They are hiring continuously and are paying well. Small Towns around us are getting medical facilities they should have had long ago. The ACA will keep people alive longer and more and more Nursing and Senior Homes are being build. Not a sign that the economy is tanking because of Obamacare, is it. Your Author truly needs a reality check.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Try putting "University of Chicago" in your search engine, then you will find it.


joeysomma
not an important institution by a long shot.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have Apple's Magic mouse which can do marvelous things but that is how it spelled for me. As long as I recalled the right word.
> 
> Are you heating up your knitting needles my making anything? I am bored with my projects and need to heat up my brain with a another wip.


Why don't you start gathering your stash together and join me and a lot of our friends as well as other members to learn to make a sweater using techique and colors and your own design. I am working on getting things organized for it now.

Any of those from D & P who are interested are welcome too. No politics or religion, just learn to do a new style of knitting a sweater with texture and color. All the workshops are free of anything that is unpleasant and all KP members are welcome.We just ask that we forget all differences and knit while we are there.

Also there will be two lace classes - beginning and then a scarf in Feb. and Mar. and a baby sweater in January later in the month.

We will hold no more than two workshops a month from now on. Some will be "Conversations" about different knitting projects.

SQM - watch for more information. I am just finishing up my pullover and starting to get the class organized.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Why don't you start gathering your stash together and join me and a lot of our friends as well as other members to learn to make a sweater using techique and colors and your own design. I am working on getting things organized for it now.
> 
> Any of those from D & P who are interested are welcome too. No politics or religion, just learn to do a new style of knitting a sweater with texture and color. All the workshops are free of anything that is unpleasant and all KP members are welcome.We just ask that we forget all differences and knit while we are there.
> 
> ...


Thanks Shirley. I will definitely be interested. Sounds swell.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree with you, Purl. In the past I've had some harsh opinions about the medical profession, but observing the doctors working with my brother has given me a new respect for at least some of them. Brother's cancer has reached the critical stage, but his oncologist refuses to gives up on him.


I'm so sorry to hear that Mos. Gentle hugs to you and your dear brother.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have Apple's Magic mouse which can do marvelous things but that is how it spelled for me. As long as I recalled the right word.
> 
> Are you heating up your knitting needles my making anything? I am bored with my projects and need to heat up my brain with a another wip.


Not really. I have a serious problem with a baby sweater that I may never finish. Then there's the scarf I didn't finish for DH's b-day, in September. I think that's it.

I also think if I'm going to wear backless shoes all winter, I ought to knit myself some socks. Nothing interesting at all.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not really. I have a serious problem with a baby sweater that I may never finish. Then there's the scarf I didn't finish for DH's b-day, in September. I think that's it.
> 
> I also think if I'm going to wear backless shoes all winter, I ought to knit myself some socks. Nothing interesting at all.


How do you make socks? PM me 'cause no one is really interested in my quest to find the way to make the easiest socks ever.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> How do you make socks? PM me 'cause no one is really interested in my quest to find the way to make the easiest socks ever.


Check out Darowils toe up sock pattern on the workshops. It is a good one. Also 5mmdpns has one at the very beginning one of the first 3or 4 workshops. I would google 
simple sock pattern or basic sock pattern. That is how Iearned.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Check out Darowils toe up sock pattern on the workshops. It is a good one. Also 5mmdpns has one at the very beginning one of the first 3or 4 workshops. I would google
> simple sock pattern or basic sock pattern. That is how Iearned.


Shucks Designer - you were born knowing how to do socks. Can't kid me.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> How do you make socks? PM me 'cause no one is really interested in my quest to find the way to make the easiest socks ever.


Read Designer's answer. I didn't learn from Darowil because I wasn't on KP, but I found a very clear website with step by step directions - I wanted toe up, so that's what I started with. http://www.socknitters.com/toe-up/

It's very detailed (6 chapters plus an intro). I'm sure there are other such sites. But try the ones here on KP first, and once you've made a whole pair, you can play around. Good luck.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have short lengths of circulars. Is there a special place to look for patterns? DPN's confuse me. Thanks.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I have short lengths of circulars. Is there a special place to look for patterns? DPN's confuse me. Thanks.


damemary
I wish I lived close to you. DPNs are really no problem once you have the cast-on completed and connected properly. I do not like to knit with the very short circulars.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've managed to get them cast on but the corners confuse me. I'd love any excuse to live near you. hugs to Huck



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> I wish I lived close to you. DPNs are really no problem once you have the cast-on completed and connected properly. I do not like to knit with the very short circulars.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shucks Designer - you were born knowing how to do socks. Can't kid me.


I have knit since I was l4 and was scared until 4 years ago to knit socks. I hated the idea. Pat asked me to make a pair. I made 4 pairs for him and 4 pairs for me and that is it until they wear out! It is not my favorite knitting project. It is better since I learned to do them with magic loop. I learned to really make them with Darowil's workshop although I had made a couple of pairs of worsted socks for warmth around the house. Sock specialist i am not! :shock: :shock: :roll: :roll: :-(


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I guess you read nothing in the article. So you don't care about all the double taxation, the fact that the workers are paying for those who do not.
> The fact that ACA is forcing more into a non-living wage, when the libs are calling for a living wage, and the ACA is saying a 30 hour week is acceptable as a living wage.
> 
> Then, you equate Conservatives as stupid, without reading anything they have to say. Just maybe, they are right, and someday you will wish you had read what they had to say.


The economy is kaput because all the money is concentrated at the top. I'm sick to death of the conservative mantra that blames the ACA, the government, Obama, lazy workers, etc. Those wealthy people like it like this. As soon as they have bought off the entire government by funding their hand-picked candidates, the rest of us in the middle class will have disappeared into oblivion and our "democratic republic" will have become a total oligarchy. The big problem is how to make all those people out there who still have a vote realize that they're being taken for a ride. Government is meant to work for the common good, but guess what? There are too many stupid people believing the very people who don't have a concern in the world for the common good. People like the Koch brothers are funding policies and candidates to do their bidding and they don't give a crap about the rest of us "peons." You think the ACA is forcing people into a non- living wage? Guess again.

And now that I've unloaded that rant, I wonder how we can get Bernie Sanders elected president.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> The economy is kaput because all the money is concentrated at the top. I'm sick to death of the conservative mantra that blames the ACA, the government, Obama, lazy workers, etc. Those wealthy people like it like this. As soon as they have bought off the entire government by funding their hand-picked candidates, the rest of us in the middle class will have disappeared into oblivion and our "democratic republic" will have become a total oligarchy. The big problem is how to make all those people out there who still have a vote realize that they're being taken for a ride. Government is meant to work for the common good, but guess what? There are too many stupid people believing the very people who don't have a concern in the world for the common good. People like the Koch brothers are funding policies and candidates to do their bidding and they don't give a crap about the rest of us "peons." You think the ACA is forcing people into a non- living wage? Guess again.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm with you Cookie.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> I have short lengths of circulars. Is there a special place to look for patterns? DPN's confuse me. Thanks.


I made A sock once with a light knitting worsted and a 12-inch circular just to prove that I could do it. I used a pattern from sockit-to-me here on KP. It wasn't difficult. When I find the pattern I'll send it to you.

My iPad isnt letting me copy and paste, but if you do a search on KP for basic top down sock with 12-inch needle you'll find a good, easy pattern.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> First you had better hope we NEVER have a "Democratic Republic." Government is NOT for the "common good." Unless the common good is to fix roads and bridges, fire and police protection, and national defense. Otherwise they should just stay out of our lives.


Unless someone needs an abortion, right? Or two gay people want to make a permanent commitment to each other by getting married.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Unless someone needs an abortion, right? Or two gay people want to make a permanent commitment to each other by getting married.


Or the Christian zealots among us want to make sure they have special rights and privileges.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I have knit since I was l4 and was scared until 4 years ago to knit socks. I hated the idea. Pat asked me to make a pair. I made 4 pairs for him and 4 pairs for me and that is it until they wear out! It is not my favorite knitting project. It is better since I learned to do them with magic loop. I learned to really make them with Darowil's workshop although I had made a couple of pairs of worsted socks for warmth around the house. Sock specialist i am not! :shock: :shock: :roll: :roll: :-(


Designer, your sweater in your avatar is gorgeous! Well done. Can't wait to see you wearing it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> First you had better hope we NEVER have a "Democratic Republic." Government is NOT for the "common good." Unless the common good is to fix roads and bridges, fire and police protection, and national defense. Otherwise they should just stay out of our lives.


You make me laugh! I just love your interpretation of the common good. You not only want the government in our lives, you want them in the most PRIVATE parts of our lives. You can't have it both ways, my dear.i don't know why I bother. Testa dura and oy gevalt!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Unless someone needs an abortion, right? Or two gay people want to make a permanent commitment to each other by getting married.


Oops! You beat me to it again!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Police protection means that all human life is to be protected. To punish all that commit murder, even if it is the mother. Once that life has begun by the fertilization of an egg. It has the same rights as everyone, especially LIFE.


*sigh* I know you believe in the death penalty, Joey, and of course the act of murder carries with it no statue of limitations-would you really be in favor of placing every woman who's ever had an abortion since Roe vs Wade (25M +) on Death Row?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> The economy is kaput because all the money is concentrated at the top. I'm sick to death of the conservative mantra that blames the ACA, the government, Obama, lazy workers, etc. Those wealthy people like it like this. As soon as they have bought off the entire government by funding their hand-picked candidates, the rest of us in the middle class will have disappeared into oblivion and our "democratic republic" will have become a total oligarchy. The big problem is how to make all those people out there who still have a vote realize that they're being taken for a ride. Government is meant to work for the common good, but guess what? There are too many stupid people believing the very people who don't have a concern in the world for the common good. People like the Koch brothers are funding policies and candidates to do their bidding and they don't give a crap about the rest of us "peons." You think the ACA is forcing people into a non- living wage? Guess again.
> 
> And now that I've unloaded that rant, I wonder how we can get Bernie Sanders elected president.


Spot on, Cookie.

For a dose of encouragement, here are many Americans who are fed up with the oligarchs. An interesting link for you (and other libs):

http://billmoyers.com/2014/11/21/8-ways-get-money-politics/

Bernie Sanders is wonderful. I hope he is just hanging back, waiting for a more appropriate time to take on Hillary. Hillary is much too "establishment" for my taste and I won't vote for her unless no one else steps up.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Spot on, Cookie.
> 
> For a dose of encouragement, here are many Americans who are fed up with the oligarchs. An interesting link for you (and other libs):
> 
> ...


I am not a fan of Hillary's either. I am interested in Eliz. Warren but know nada about her foreign policy.

Let us not discourage Mrs. Somma from carrying on about abortions. It is so low on the minds of Americans that we hope the Republicans keep it front and center so they will lose in '16.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I am not a fan of Hillary's either. I am interested in Eliz. Warren but know nada about her foreign policy.
> 
> Let us not discourage Mrs. Somma from carrying on about abortions. It is so low on the minds of Americans that we hope the Republicans keep it front and center so they will lose in '16.


Let's not encourage her about carrying on about anything. We all know what she is.

Notice she gets nothing from the posted link except a reason to bash libs, when the SUBJECT of the link is vastly different. When an overwhelming majority of Americans feel there is too much money in politics and want free and fair elections, all she can do is harp on her favorite BS. Critical thinking skills, reading comprehension and the ability to process information completely lacking.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Police protection means that all human life is to be protected. To punish all that commit murder, even if it is the mother. Once that life has begun by the fertilization of an egg. It has the same rights as everyone, especially LIFE.


You seem to have forgotten that the police don't punish anyone and they aren't at all concerned about law-abiding people. May God forgive me for bothering to respond to you. 

I think I'll have this built far, far from anything vaguely like civilization after my mother passes.

Friends, doen't this look like a good alternative to the real world?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Designer, your sweater in your avatar is gorgeous! Well done. Can't wait to see you wearing it.


Thanks Wombat- just have one sleeve to finish and I will get a picture. I am happy with it. I like the fit and managed to finally find a way to knit something that isn't quite loose on me. Two different sizes (medium top, large hips, small across shoulders.) I think that is why I started designing sweaters!!

I decided to try short rows for the bottom half and it worked.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You seem to have forgotten that the police don't punish anyone and they aren't at all concerned about law-abiding people. May God forgive me for bothering to respond to you.
> 
> I think I'll have this built far, far from anything vaguely like civilization after my mother passes.


That is much like the cabin we lived in in the summers when we went to Arizona every winter as snowbirds. I loved it. We had a circular stair case up to the loft. It was 24' x 13 ' but Pat build a huge deck around the whole outside where we ate and actually spent most of our time. Happy memories. I will look for a picture. Wonderful time in our lives.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> That is much like the cabin we lived in in the summers when we went to Arizona every winter as snowbirds. I loved it. We had a circular stair case up to the loft. It was 24' x 13 ' but Pat build a huge deck around the whole outside where we ate and actually spent most of our time. Happy memories. I will look for a picture. Wonderful time in our lives.


The cabin I pictured is 26' by 16'. I think the second level is better for storage than sleeping. I've been researching having a log cabin built for me on a few acres, and setting up the whole property to conduct a couple of small folk music festivals. Fantasizing freely, but it is actually something I could manage to do.

There's this little dear(320 sq ft) that tempts me, too, if the real world drives me to be a hermit.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> The economy is kaput because all the money is concentrated at the top. I'm sick to death of the conservative mantra that blames the ACA, the government, Obama, lazy workers, etc. Those wealthy people like it like this. As soon as they have bought off the entire government by funding their hand-picked candidates, the rest of us in the middle class will have disappeared into oblivion and our "democratic republic" will have become a total oligarchy. The big problem is how to make all those people out there who still have a vote realize that they're being taken for a ride. Government is meant to work for the common good, but guess what? There are too many stupid people believing the very people who don't have a concern in the world for the common good. People like the Koch brothers are funding policies and candidates to do their bidding and they don't give a crap about the rest of us "peons." You think the ACA is forcing people into a non- living wage? Guess again.
> 
> And now that I've unloaded that rant, I wonder how we can get Bernie Sanders elected president.


But aren't the one's in the super rich 1% category supporting the Democrats? Why are you so afraid of the Koch brothers? What about all the Hollywood elite that throw money at Obama? What about all the 1%'s at the Hamptons and the Vineyard that house, entertain and support the Obama's? You make it appear that all the Dems are dirt poor. Well that is not the case. Nancy Pelosi is extremely wealthy. So are the Kennedy's. So are the Rockefeller's. So is Warren Buffet who is making billions by legally avoiding taxes. Bill Gates, Bruce Springsteen, Spielburg, Barbara Streisand,....... So both party have supporters with deep pockets and to not acknowledge that is wrong.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> That is much like the cabin we lived in in the summers when we went to Arizona every winter as snowbirds. I loved it. We had a circular stair case up to the loft. It was 24' x 13 ' but Pat build a huge deck around the whole outside where we ate and actually spent most of our time. Happy memories. I will look for a picture. Wonderful time in our lives.


Thanks for posting the picture. It looks like a wonderful place, especially with its own moose. :-D


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Or the Christian zealots among us want to make sure they have special rights and privileges.


Right. Other than that, govt. should stay out of our lives because we're all gonna be rich soon.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You make me laugh! I just love your interpretation of the common good. You not only want the government in our lives, you want them in the most PRIVATE parts of our lives. You can't have it both ways, my dear.i don't know why I bother. Testa dura and oy gevalt!


Do you think she actually knows what she's saying? Does she want her tap water to be flammable? Does she want moldy peanut butter? Do you think she likes the idea of a pipeline breaking near her home and polluting both air and water?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Oops! You beat me to it again!


Because I'm older. I get everywhere before you do.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh* I know you believe in the death penalty, Joey, and of course the act of murder carries with it no statue of limitations-would you really be in favor of placing every woman who's ever had an abortion since Roe vs Wade (25M +) on Death Row?


Why not? Now that pot is legal in some states, prison populations will drop, and the corps. that own the prisons will lose money. How better to replace all those convicts?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Let's not encourage her about carrying on about anything. We all know what she is.
> 
> Notice she gets nothing from the posted link except a reason to bash libs, when the SUBJECT of the link is vastly different. When an overwhelming majority of Americans feel there is too much money in politics and want free and fair elections, all she can do is harp on her favorite BS. Critical thinking skills, reading comprehension and the ability to process information completely lacking.


I've noticed that before. I believe it's a kind of learning disability.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But aren't the one's in the super rich 1% category supporting the Democrats? Why are you so afraid of the Koch brothers? What about all the Hollywood elite that throw money at Obama? What about all the 1%'s at the Hamptons and the Vineyard that house, entertain and support the Obama's? You make it appear that all the Dems are dirt poor. Well that is not the case. Nancy Pelosi is extremely wealthy. So are the Kennedy's. So are the Rockefeller's. So is Warren Buffet who is making billions by legally avoiding taxes. Bill Gates, Bruce Springsteen, Spielburg, Barbara Streisand,....... So both party have supporters with deep pockets and to not acknowledge that is wrong.


Once you add in every member of the Walton (of Walmart) family - separately - it's the Reps who come out with most money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You seem to have forgotten that the police don't punish anyone and they aren't at all concerned about law-abiding people. May God forgive me for bothering to respond to you.
> 
> I think I'll have this built far, far from anything vaguely like civilization after my mother passes.
> 
> Friends, doesn't this look like a good alternative to the real world?


If that guy down the hill comes with it, absolutely.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Very interesting list of mega donors. The Libs are complaining about the Koch brothers buying elections , and they are numbers 22 and 23 on the list. How many Democrats are on the list above them?


To focus on one part of an issue doesn't mean anyone has forgotten the rest of the issue.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Police protection means that all human life is to be protected. To punish all that commit murder, even if it is the mother. Once that life has begun by the fertilization of an egg. It has the same rights as everyone, especially LIFE.


So the "common good" means police protection? That's a narrow interpretation just like . . . .well, never mind.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> But aren't the one's in the super rich 1% category supporting the Democrats? Why are you so afraid of the Koch brothers? What about all the Hollywood elite that throw money at Obama? What about all the 1%'s at the Hamptons and the Vineyard that house, entertain and support the Obama's? You make it appear that all the Dems are dirt poor. Well that is not the case. Nancy Pelosi is extremely wealthy. So are the Kennedy's. So are the Rockefeller's. So is Warren Buffet who is making billions by legally avoiding taxes. Bill Gates, Bruce Springsteen, Spielburg, Barbara Streisand,....... So both party have supporters with deep pockets and to not acknowledge that is wrong.


Really? Did you think you had to provide a list of wealthy people? Some of those people on your list have social consciences, unlike you and the Koch brothers.
NOBODY should be able to buy elections.
And I'm afraid of the Koch brothers because people like you vote for the candidates they're buying without using your God-given brain.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Spot on, Cookie.
> 
> For a dose of encouragement, here are many Americans who are fed up with the oligarchs. An interesting link for you (and other libs):
> 
> ...


Thank you DGreen. I have already seen the Moyers piece.
I apologize to all for beating the dead horse and causing a minor uprising from the right. I know it's no use, but sometimes I just need a little rant. Times like this make me thankful that I'm old and don't have a long time to witness what's happening in this country. Bah! Humbug!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks for posting the picture. It looks like a wonderful place, especially with its own moose. :-D


He had a cream 'ruff' on his neck and was born before we arrived home the first spring we were in the cabin. Mom and baby stayed about a month and disappeared. The next year he came back with the mom and another baby - After that he came back on his own. We used to leave a salt lick out on the property so I think he spent the winters there. When we would arrive home in April each year he would still be there and sometimes another cow moose and her baby - not together. Then they would disappear within the next couple of weeks after we arrived back. We called the bull 'little joe' and the cow Susie -- she had twins one year. We would sit quietly on our deck and watch them at the salt lick at dusk and at dawn. The Deer would wait always stay away and watch, and once the Moose left, they would go to the salt lick but the Moose always had first dibs. A wonderful place for two city people who had never seen a moose until we lived there. We never went near them and were very careful when we went out of our cabin.

Memories.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Once you add in every member of the Walton (of Walmart) family - separately - it's the Reps who come out with most money.


...and if the Keystone gets approved, the Koch's will be the wealthiest people in the world. They stand to make about $100 billion on the deal. No wonder they're throwing money around Washington.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You seem to have forgotten that the police don't punish anyone and they aren't at all concerned about law-abiding people. May God forgive me for bothering to respond to you.
> 
> I think I'll have this built far, far from anything vaguely like civilization after my mother passes.
> 
> Friends, doen't this look like a good alternative to the real world?


Perfect. All you need is solar panels on the roof to generate your own electricity and a water tank to collect rain water. You could add a satellite dish for TV reception and phone if you wish. Where would you site it, somewhere not in a bushfire zone.

Of course you could always move to Coober Pedy. Check it out.

http://www.odditycentral.com/pics/coober-pedy-australias-underground-town.html


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Wombat- just have one sleeve to finish and I will get a picture. I am happy with it. I like the fit and managed to finally find a way to knit something that isn't quite loose on me. Two different sizes (medium top, large hips, small across shoulders.) I think that is why I started designing sweaters!!
> 
> I decided to try short rows for the bottom half and it worked.


You've inspired me. Will attend your workshop most definitely. The colours in the sweater are so complimentary to each other. Great choice!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The cabin I pictured is 26' by 16'. I think the second level is better for storage than sleeping. I've been researching having a log cabin built for me on a few acres, and setting up the whole property to conduct a couple of small folk music festivals. Fantasizing freely, but it is actually something I could manage to do.
> 
> There's this little dear(320 sq ft) that tempts me, too, if the real world drives me to be a hermit.


What a fabulous idea Maid! That is exactly the kind of life I aspire to: My own little slice of the world far, far away from the crass, the crude and the toxic. The cabin is perfect.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Once you add in every member of the Walton (of Walmart) family - separately - it's the Reps who come out with most money.


http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/116056-wall-street-bankers-top-donors-agree-democrat-party-new-party-rich/

Sorry you are either intentionally lying or you do not know the truth


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Their minds are closed to the truth.


you said it Joey-- only reverse it. Your minds are closed , not ours.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I made A sock once with a light knitting worsted and a 12-inch circular just to prove that I could do it. I used a pattern from sockit-to-me here on KP. It wasn't difficult. When I find the pattern I'll send it to you.
> 
> My iPad isnt letting me copy and paste, but if you do a search on KP for basic top down sock with 12-inch needle you'll find a good, easy pattern.


Sockit2me is brilliant -- I had hoped he would teach a class but he is so busy and he doesn't teach on line. I think his work is absolutely outstanding.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> http://www.ijreview.com/2014/02/116056-wall-street-bankers-top-donors-agree-democrat-party-new-party-rich/
> 
> Sorry you are either intentionally lying or you do not know the truth


I sent Joey a post a couple of weeks ago with the 10 richest people in the US, and it was very different from this. Maybe it was because my list came from Forbes (Capitalist Tool) and yours comes from some RWN piece of - oops, source.

How could I lie about that, with geniuses like you to catch me?
And why would I lie when my information comes from a right-wing source to begin with? http://www.forbes.com/sites/afontevecchia/2014/09/29/forbes-400-full-list-of-americas-richest-people/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Really? Did you think you had to provide a list of wealthy people? Some of those people on your list have social consciences, unlike you and the Koch brothers.
> NOBODY should be able to buy elections.
> And I'm afraid of the Koch brothers because people like you vote for the candidates they're buying without using your God-given brain.


Her list contains unions (with maybe 2 rich people among the entire leadership) and corporations.

But what's disgusting is the assumption she makes that if someone disagrees with her RWN propaganda, they must be lying or stupid. I will not accuse her of lying about this.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Their minds are closed to the truth.


Well, we do have minds; that's one way we differ from you. You don't even remember the information I sent you from Forbes on exactly that subject, do you? Did you bother to look at it?

How can you describe others as having closed minds when you don't even read what people spend time on just for you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, we do have minds; that's one way we differ from you. You don't even remember the information I sent you from Forbes on exactly that subject, do you? Did you bother to look at it?
> 
> How can you describe others as having closed minds when you don't even read what people spend time on just for you?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Why Hi Ladies,

Understand the Furgeson "verdict" will be heard at 9:00 est this evening. It is quite clear that things are heating up there. There will be much to discuss ladies, as our evening wears on. Get comfy.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Her list contains unions (with maybe 2 rich people among the entire leadership) and corporations.
> 
> But what's disgusting is the assumption she makes that if someone disagrees with her RWN propaganda, they must be lying or stupid. I will not accuse her of lying about this.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why Hi Ladies,
> 
> Understand the Furgeson "verdict" will be heard at 9:00 est this evening. It is quite clear that things are heating up there. There will be much to discuss ladies, as our evening wears on. Get comfy.


I and my friends up here are watching different American news casts -and are very uneasy at the way it is being handled. Why announce it in the dark when they have known about it all day- Daylight means less chance of problems. Also the family has not been shown the courtesy of being told the verdict ahead of time. Also extra police are moving in and it sure sounds as if they expect, or even want a bad outcome there. I have talked to other people from here watching and they feel the same except for a very right wing friend of mine who thinks the police officer is innocent and should not even be charged for shooting an unarmed young person. Makes me wonder. I would love to know your opinions on this. Am I incorrect in what I think is going to happen? I know Solo and others believe he should be released. I can't understand how they can justify shooting a young person even if he was guilty of stealing something small from a store. Couldn't he have used a taser? It boggles my mind. Am I crazy here??

Our news up here says that the Grand Jury is not like other Grand juries. The question I am hearing on CBC is why didn't the policeman be at least charged with homicide or murder and homicide and let an ordinary trial be held. They question what would have happened if the boy had killed the policeman? - they feel he would have been charged with murder the first night. I question why it is different for Policeman than a civilian who was unarmed. Also the fact that he was black, in a southern town. This was suggested on a two person panel that I just watched. I am not in any way saying that all Canadians agree with the person being interviewed. I personally agree with him though.

I would love to hear your thoughts. I know the feelings of some of those on D and P from their posts here. I do wonder if all of those who don't post feel the same way.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I think the verdict is a forgone conclusion. I am just worried that the reaction will be bad, not just in Ferguson but across the country. We are all very connected.

The news arranges to have the verdict read at night for maximum viewership. They need to make their money.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> You seem to have forgotten that the police don't punish anyone and they aren't at all concerned about law-abiding people. May God forgive me for bothering to respond to you.
> 
> I think I'll have this built far, far from anything vaguely like civilization after my mother passes.
> 
> Friends, doen't this look like a good alternative to the real world?


This looks perfect. I love it! Except, it doesn't have a yarn room.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The cabin I pictured is 26' by 16'. I think the second level is better for storage than sleeping. I've been researching having a log cabin built for me on a few acres, and setting up the whole property to conduct a couple of small folk music festivals. Fantasizing freely, but it is actually something I could manage to do.
> 
> There's this little dear(320 sq ft) that tempts me, too, if the real world drives me to be a hermit.


I could do the hermit thing, as well. I've had enough of neighborhood living. A couple of days ago, my next door neighbor put a used toilet by the curb! Really?!? A toilet?!?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> But aren't the one's in the super rich 1% category supporting the Democrats? Why are you so afraid of the Koch brothers? What about all the Hollywood elite that throw money at Obama? What about all the 1%'s at the Hamptons and the Vineyard that house, entertain and support the Obama's? You make it appear that all the Dems are dirt poor. Well that is not the case. Nancy Pelosi is extremely wealthy. So are the Kennedy's. So are the Rockefeller's. So is Warren Buffet who is making billions by legally avoiding taxes. Bill Gates, Bruce Springsteen, Spielburg, Barbara Streisand,....... So both party have supporters with deep pockets and to not acknowledge that is wrong.


It makes no difference whether they're dems or reps. The big money finances both sides and both sides benefit and are beholden.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you think she actually knows what she's saying? Does she want her tap water to be flammable? Does she want moldy peanut butter? Do you think she likes the idea of a pipeline breaking near her home and polluting both air and water?


That's funny. Those things are happening even with lots of government.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Once you add in every member of the Walton (of Walmart) family - separately - it's the Reps who come out with most money.


I think by the time you've amassed enough money to buy politicians, it makes no difference who's got more.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I could do the hermit thing, as well. I've had enough of neighborhood living. A couple of days ago, my next door neighbor put a used toilet by the curb! Really?!? A toilet?!?


You are probably lucky your neighbor didn't just park it in the front yard and plant pansies in it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> ...and if the Keystone gets approved, the Koch's will be the wealthiest people in the world. They stand to make about $100 billion on the deal. No wonder they're throwing money around Washington.


And if the Keystone doesn't get approved, Buffet will just keep getting richer and richer. He's the one who owns the trains that are currently transporting the oil.

Please don't assume that because I made this statement, I am for the Keystone pipeline. I'm not! But not because one side or the other is going to get rich off of it. It makes no difference to me, who gets the money. I'm against the pipeline because they're using inferior pipe made in China. Not if but when it leaks, it won't be regular oil that spills. There have been plenty of oil spills. They know how to clean it up. But this is tar sands oil. It's too thick to flow. They thin it with a toxic chemical to get it to flow through the pipeline. The proposed pipeline is directly over the Ogalala Aquifer. The Aquifer not only provides drinking water for millions of people but it also irrigates most of the food produced in this country. If the Aquifer is contaminated, it will poison the food that we all eat. Then we face famine or toxic food. It's just plain stupid to consider this pipeline, unless you want to poison people.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> You are probably lucky your neighbor didn't just park it in the front yard and plant pansies in it.


I'm pretty sure there are covenants against that.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I and my friends up here are watching different American news casts -and are very uneasy at the way it is being handled. Why announce it in the dark when they have known about it all day- Daylight means less chance of problems. Also the family has not been shown the courtesy of being told the verdict ahead of time. Also extra police are moving in and it sure sounds as if they expect, or even want a bad outcome there. I have talked to other people from here watching and they feel the same except for a very right wing friend of mine who thinks the police officer is innocent and should not even be charged for shooting an unarmed young person. Makes me wonder. I would love to know your opinions on this. Am I incorrect in what I think is going to happen? I know Solo and others believe he should be released. I can't understand how they can justify shooting a young person even if he was guilty of stealing something small from a store. Couldn't he have used a taser? It boggles my mind. Am I crazy here??
> 
> Our news up here says that the Grand Jury is not like other Grand juries. The question I am hearing on CBC is why didn't the policeman be at least charged with homicide or murder and homicide and let an ordinary trial be held. They question what would have happened if the boy had killed the policeman? - they feel he would have been charged with murder the first night. I question why it is different for Policeman than a civilian who was unarmed. Also the fact that he was black, in a southern town. This was suggested on a two person panel that I just watched. I am not in any way saying that all Canadians agree with the person being interviewed. I personally agree with him though.
> 
> I would love to hear your thoughts. I know the feelings of some of those on D and P from their posts here. I do wonder if all of those who don't post feel the same way.


I definitely think Wilson should be charged. In a normal situation where there is reasonable cause that a crime has been committed, there are charges. No grand jury needed. If this case does not raise questions of whether there is reasonable cause, nothing does. The thing is, Wilson can make up any story he wants to fit the evidence - Michael Brown has no voice.

I keep hearing that Brown was shot in the hand while reaching for Wilson's gun. I find it just as plausible that he was trying to keep Wilson from shooting him and was trying to defend himself. Also, Brown was shot dead 107 feet from the patrol car, after already having been shot several times. No one "charges" a blazing gun - so the witness accounts that he had his hands up in surrender is something I believe. Remember, there is a cell phone video of witnesses protesting IMMEDIATELY after the shooting that he had his hands up. No time to make that up - it was a visceral reaction to what they saw. Even if Wilson feared for his life, the threat Brown might have presented at 2 feet and the threat at 107 feet, already wounded, makes the shots to the head a deliberate intent to kill. Unnecessary and excessive use of force. Hate crime?

Wilson's friends (or Wilson - who knows) made up a story about him being injured, which has been proven false. There have been deliberate attempts to spin the story in favor of the officer, who has a questionable record of abuse of authority. Suddenly today we are hearing about fears of violence; how quickly we forget the police overreaction back in August and images of them putting rifles in the faces of protestors, arresting members of the press and illegally forcing protestors to "keep moving." The whole thing, up to the grand jury and treatment of Brown's family, is shocking.

These kinds of cases are all over the internet and it is not just people of color who are victims of police abuse of power. The findings in Ferguson are just the tip of the iceberg - I believe we are in for a new wave of civil rights protests and hopefully, change. People of color suffer the most and have the least recourse. It's time we paid attention to this growing and horrible problem, along with other questions of economic and social justice. Time for us to put racism behind us.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I and my friends up here are watching different American news casts -and are very uneasy at the way it is being handled. Why announce it in the dark when they have known about it all day- Daylight means less chance of problems. Also the family has not been shown the courtesy of being told the verdict ahead of time. Also extra police are moving in and it sure sounds as if they expect, or even want a bad outcome there. I have talked to other people from here watching and they feel the same except for a very right wing friend of mine who thinks the police officer is innocent and should not even be charged for shooting an unarmed young person. Makes me wonder. I would love to know your opinions on this. Am I incorrect in what I think is going to happen? I know Solo and others believe he should be released. I can't understand how they can justify shooting a young person even if he was guilty of stealing something small from a store. Couldn't he have used a taser? It boggles my mind. Am I crazy here??
> 
> Our news up here says that the Grand Jury is not like other Grand juries. The question I am hearing on CBC is why didn't the policeman be at least charged with homicide or murder and homicide and let an ordinary trial be held. They question what would have happened if the boy had killed the policeman? - they feel he would have been charged with murder the first night. I question why it is different for Policeman than a civilian who was unarmed. Also the fact that he was black, in a southern town. This was suggested on a two person panel that I just watched. I am not in any way saying that all Canadians agree with the person being interviewed. I personally agree with him though.
> 
> I would love to hear your thoughts. I know the feelings of some of those on D and P from their posts here. I do wonder if all of those who don't post feel the same way.


I like that a grand jury will decide whether to try him. No favoritism, no bias (ideally).

Ferguson is a suburb of St Louis. Neither could be considered a southern town. We lived in two other suburbs of St Louis. It's like any other large metropolitan area. They're announcing the verdict now. I'll hold.

No charges! I can only assume that the grand jury knows more than we do and that they made the correct decision. But I still think that we need to take a good hard look at the militarization of our police forces. Our police are quick to shoot fist and ask questions later.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I definitely think Wilson should be charged. In a normal situation where there is reasonable cause that a crime has been committed, there are charges. No grand jury needed. If this case does not raise questions of whether there is reasonable cause, nothing does. The thing is, Wilson can make up any story he wants to fit the evidence - Michael Brown has no voice.
> 
> I keep hearing that Brown was shot in the hand while reaching for Wilson's gun. I find it just as plausible that he was trying to keep Wilson from shooting him and was trying to defend himself. Also, Brown was shot dead 107 feet from the patrol car, after already having been shot several times. No one "charges" a blazing gun - so the witness accounts that he had his hands up in surrender is something I believe. Remember, there is a cell phone video of witnesses protesting IMMEDIATELY after the shooting that he had his hands up. No time to make that up - it was a visceral reaction to what they saw. Even if Wilson feared for his life, the threat Brown might have presented at 2 feet and the threat at 107 feet, already wounded, makes the shots to the head a deliberate intent to kill. Unnecessary and excessive use of force. Hate crime?
> 
> ...


It doesn't really matter what you've heard or what I've heard. The grand jury has more true information than either of us.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Wonderful! No Charges.


I don't believe justice was done.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I and my friends up here are watching different American news casts -and are very uneasy at the way it is being handled. Why announce it in the dark when they have known about it all day- Daylight means less chance of problems. Also the family has not been shown the courtesy of being told the verdict ahead of time. Also extra police are moving in and it sure sounds as if they expect, or even want a bad outcome there. I have talked to other people from here watching and they feel the same except for a very right wing friend of mine who thinks the police officer is innocent and should not even be charged for shooting an unarmed young person. Makes me wonder. I would love to know your opinions on this. Am I incorrect in what I think is going to happen? I know Solo and others believe he should be released. I can't understand how they can justify shooting a young person even if he was guilty of stealing something small from a store. Couldn't he have used a taser? It boggles my mind. Am I crazy here??
> 
> Our news up here says that the Grand Jury is not like other Grand juries. The question I am hearing on CBC is why didn't the policeman be at least charged with homicide or murder and homicide and let an ordinary trial be held. They question what would have happened if the boy had killed the policeman? - they feel he would have been charged with murder the first night. I question why it is different for Policeman than a civilian who was unarmed. Also the fact that he was black, in a southern town. This was suggested on a two person panel that I just watched. I am not in any way saying that all Canadians agree with the person being interviewed. I personally agree with him though.
> 
> I would love to hear your thoughts. I know the feelings of some of those on D and P from their posts here. I do wonder if all of those who don't post feel the same way.


Designer, the job of the grand jury is to decide whether a trial is warranted and what the charges will be. As far as I know, every serious crime has to go before a grand jury. Once they come to a decision, the case will either move on to a normal trial or will be dropped. Grand juries have a lot of power in that they can decide whether there is actually a case to be made, but they're made up of the same ordinary people who sit on juries dealing with financial matters or medical malpractice or murder.

Our friends on D and P - or at least one of them - showed her opinion of the murdered boy by posting a picture of a black man holding a gun, which she believed was the murdered boy, though it wasn't. But they're very quick to decide guilt or innocence, and they "knew" the day after the incident that it was the murdered boy who was guilty, not the police officer who shot him. (The fact that the boy was black and the policeman was white couldn't have had any influence on their opinion, since none of them is racist.)

I have very little hope of any kind of penalty for police killings of black men and boys. A day or two ago in Harlem, a young man was shot while walking down the stairs with his girlfriend. The cop who shot him never saw him because the stairwell lights were out. In fact, the cop didn't aim at him. The bullet apparently hit a wall and then the man. Why police are ready to shoot even if they have no idea who or what they're shooting at escapes me.

And yesterday in Cleveland a 12-year-old black boy was shot and killed by two cops because they thought his toy gun was real. Surely there was a way to stop the kid and get his gun short of killing him. We really have made very little progress, if any, since the Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That's funny. Those things are happening even with lots of government.


 There's less government now than there was under the previous pres. But the agencies that were supposed to keep those things from happening have been made toothless.

Not the moldy peanut butter, however. The FDA got hold of the culprits (did you know that almost all peanut butter comes from the same source?), forced a recall and a cleanup of their premises, and there was a PB shortage for a while. I used to get bulletins from the FDA, so I was once an expert on PB contamination.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hardly any surprise here. It was a farce. Ferguson has been buying guns at a tremendous rate. The police are totally materialized and prepared well beforehand for this "verdict". . It is war on black young people as PP has listed. I am concerned that the violence will spread. People will not take this sitting down.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think by the time you've amassed enough money to buy politicians, it makes no difference who's got more.


Yeah, you're probably right.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I found it. Thanks for the assistance. It still seems beyond me.



cookiequeen said:


> I made A sock once with a light knitting worsted and a 12-inch circular just to prove that I could do it. I used a pattern from sockit-to-me here on KP. It wasn't difficult. When I find the pattern I'll send it to you.
> 
> My iPad isnt letting me copy and paste, but if you do a search on KP for basic top down sock with 12-inch needle you'll find a good, easy pattern.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It seemed pretty obvious from the preparations that there would be no indictment. Missouri law offers unique protection to police officers.

This doesn't make it fair or just. I think it will be proven that this 'protection' is nothing of the sort.



SQM said:


> Hardly any surprise here. It was a farce. Ferguson has been buying guns at a tremendous rate. The police are totally materialized and prepared well beforehand for this "verdict". . It is war on black young people as PP has listed. I am concerned that the violence will spread. People will not take this sitting down.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> It seemed pretty obvious from the preparations that there would be no indictment. Missouri law offers unique protection to police officers.
> 
> This doesn't make it fair or just. I think it will be proven that this 'protection' is nothing of the sort.


Why did the presentation happen so late at night when people are wanting to rumble? Is good tv the main point of this whole ugly incident?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This looks perfect. I love it! Except, it doesn't have a yarn room.


Never fear, add-ons are quite within the realm of possibility.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You can believe what ever you want. How gracious of you.
> 
> Justice was served through the legal system. I don't think so.
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's less government now than there was under the previous pres. But the agencies that were supposed to keep those things from happening have been made toothless.
> 
> Not the moldy peanut butter, however. The FDA got hold of the culprits (did you know that almost all peanut butter comes from the same source?), forced a recall and a cleanup of their premises, and there was a PB shortage for a while. I used to get bulletins from the FDA, so I was once an expert on PB contamination.


Was that the pb thing that happened a few years ago? Or did it happen again? I'm glad we have a pb expert on board. Once a pb expert, always a pb expert!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Yeah, you're probably right.


I just love it when somebody agrees with me. :wink:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I found it. Thanks for the assistance. It still seems beyond me.


Don't sweat dpns. They're easy once you get the hang of it. The only tricky part is starting the first round. After that, you just knit. Give the yarn a good tug when switching needles. Socks aren't hard. They're just boring.  For me, the only hard part is making myself knit the second one.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> It seemed pretty obvious from the preparations that there would be no indictment. Missouri law offers unique protection to police officers.
> 
> This doesn't make it fair or just. I think it will be proven that this 'protection' is nothing of the sort.


I didn't think there'd be an indictment either. I can only assume that the jurors heard things we didn't hear. But IMO, as long as our police are trained to shoot first, we'll be hearing about a lot more cases like this.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Never fear, add-ons are quite within the realm of possibility.


 :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course it's well planned. Why late in the evening during a holiday week? Everyone's thinking of something else, silly. What a pack of creeps!



SQM said:


> Why did the presentation happen so late at night when people are wanting to rumble? Is good tv the main point of this whole ugly incident?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're thinking rationally. The Grand Jury will be educated on the Missouri laws and common sense has nothing to do with it, sadly. I don't think we've heard the last of this yet.



DGreen said:


> I definitely think Wilson should be charged. In a normal situation where there is reasonable cause that a crime has been committed, there are charges. No grand jury needed. If this case does not raise questions of whether there is reasonable cause, nothing does. The thing is, Wilson can make up any story he wants to fit the evidence - Michael Brown has no voice.
> 
> I keep hearing that Brown was shot in the hand while reaching for Wilson's gun. I find it just as plausible that he was trying to keep Wilson from shooting him and was trying to defend himself. Also, Brown was shot dead 107 feet from the patrol car, after already having been shot several times. No one "charges" a blazing gun - so the witness accounts that he had his hands up in surrender is something I believe. Remember, there is a cell phone video of witnesses protesting IMMEDIATELY after the shooting that he had his hands up. No time to make that up - it was a visceral reaction to what they saw. Even if Wilson feared for his life, the threat Brown might have presented at 2 feet and the threat at 107 feet, already wounded, makes the shots to the head a deliberate intent to kill. Unnecessary and excessive use of force. Hate crime?
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the law can protect them.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I like that a grand jury will decide whether to try him. No favoritism, no bias (ideally).
> 
> Ferguson is a suburb of St Louis. Neither could be considered a southern town. We lived in two other suburbs of St Louis. It's like any other large metropolitan area. They're announcing the verdict now. I'll hold.
> 
> No charges! I can only assume that the grand jury knows more than we do and that they made the correct decision. But I still think that we need to take a good hard look at the militarization of our police forces. Our police are quick to shoot fist and ask questions later.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I was talking to my mil tonight. I asked her what she wants for Christmas, because all the kids will be asking me. She said she couldn't think of anything. So I said, "OK I'll tell them you want yarn, then you can keep it at my house". That gave her a good laugh! Whenever my dil asks me what my hubby wants, I say "yarn"! Nobody ever believes me though. Darn it!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the Grand Jury makes its decision on the law as they are instructed. It's said a good prosecutor can get an indictment from any Grand Jury. If they can't, they're gone quickly.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It doesn't really matter what you've heard or what I've heard. The grand jury has more true information than either of us.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And the law can protect them.


It seems that no matter how outrageous the incident, they almost never get prosecuted for anything. IMO, it keeps getting worse. The
police seem to see us as the enemy. Or I should say, they're being trained to see us as the enemy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry to be a hit and run poster tonight. It seems important to me to point out that law and justice are two different things and sometimes there's a mighty wide gulf between them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And the Grand Jury makes its decision on the law as they are instructed. It's said a good prosecutor can get an indictment from any Grand Jury. If they can't, they're gone quickly.


I remember reading that the grand jury investigating the Oklahoma City bombing, wanted more information, wanted to question and subpoena witnesses, but wasn't allowed. They felt things were being kept from them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Supposedly our police are not trained to shoot first. They are to decide whether there is a true danger. (Didn't work in Cleveland with a 12 year old and a toy gun. Dead boy.) They must be clear that the danger to others is mitigated, etc.

It's all caught up in attitude. I grant you that police officers are in a difficult position. But they chose the job. Leave if they find they are unable to act as a peace officer. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't think there'd be an indictment either. I can only assume that the jurors heard things we didn't hear. But IMO, as long as our police are trained to shoot first, we'll be hearing about a lot more cases like this.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It seems that no matter how outrageous the incident, they almost never get prosecuted for anything. IMO, it keeps getting worse. The
> police seem to see us as the enemy. Or I should say, they're being trained to see us as the enemy.


Right you are.

For an example of what Ferguson police are like, and the reason for simmering outrage on the part of the public, read the article here:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/15/the-day-ferguson-cops-were-caught-in-a-bloody-lie.html

No charges filed. How many other such incidents happen there?

Makes you wonder whether Wilson provoked the confrontation in the first place. The prosecutor made a pretty clear claim that Wilson recognized Brown as a potential suspect in a shoplifting (not a capital offense) even though it has been reported Wilson never heard the description or report of a shoplifting before stopping Brown. He was on another call and did not hear that. He was rousting some black men for being in the street, not attempting to question them.

Not every serious crime goes to a grand jury. Even serious crimes are often charged with only a preliminary hearing, with the judge making a determination as to probable cause.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sorry to be a hit and run poster tonight. It seems important to me to point out that law and justice are two different things and sometimes there's a mighty wide gulf between them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Don't sweat dpns. They're easy once you get the hang of it. The only tricky part is starting the first round. After that, you just knit. Give the yarn a good tug when switching needles. Socks aren't hard. They're just boring.  For me, the only hard part is making myself knit the second one.


I always knit two straight rows - then join them in the circles - that way you can avoid it getting twisted. It is easy to pull the two sections together once you have started knitting in the round. It is too easy to get it twisted without doing the two or 3 rows flat.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Supposedly our police are not trained to shoot first. They are to decide whether there is a true danger. (Didn't work in Cleveland with a 12 year old and a toy gun. Dead boy.) They must be clear that the danger to others is mitigated, etc.
> 
> It's all caught up in attitude. I grant you that police officers are in a difficult position. But they chose the job. Leave if they find they are unable to act as a peace officer. IMHO


I agree! I too, read about the 12 year old. Outrageous! But the worst story I ever heard (video and audio captured), was the mentally ill young man beaten to death for doing nothing! You can hear him crying out for his daddy. The officers who beat him to death, got off scot free! This was in California. I wonder.... Do the police "protect and serve" anymore?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And if the Keystone doesn't get approved, Buffet will just keep getting richer and richer. He's the one who owns the trains that are currently transporting the oil.
> 
> Please don't assume that because I made this statement, I am for the Keystone pipeline. I'm not! But not because one side or the other is going to get rich off of it. It makes no difference to me, who gets the money. I'm against the pipeline because they're using inferior pipe made in China. Not if but when it leaks, it won't be regular oil that spills. There have been plenty of oil spills. They know how to clean it up. But this is tar sands oil. It's too thick to flow. They thin it with a toxic chemical to get it to flow through the pipeline. The proposed pipeline is directly over the Ogalala Aquifer. The Aquifer not only provides drinking water for millions of people but it also irrigates most of the food produced in this country. If the Aquifer is contaminated, it will poison the food that we all eat. Then we face famine or toxic food. It's just plain stupid to consider this pipeline, unless you want to poison people.


There you go again, making sense. But the people on top seem to have no consciences. It's as if they're afraid they'd starve if they couldn't get hold of another 2% of the world's economy, and they'll lie and cheat and steal and even kill to get it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Right you are.
> 
> For an example of what Ferguson police are like, and the reason for simmering outrage on the part of the public, read the article here:
> 
> ...


I think the media plays a big part in this mess. It seems that there are no longer any investigative journalists. All we have are reporters. They will report anything that anybody says, true or not. I rank them with ambulance chasers!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I always knit two straight rows - then join them in the circles - that way you can avoid it getting twisted. It is easy to pull the two sections together once you have started knitting in the round. It is too easy to get it twisted without doing the two or 3 rows flat.


Oh! Good idea! I'll try that. Thanks.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There you go again, making sense. But the people on top seem to have no consciences. It's as if they're afraid they'd starve if they couldn't get hold of another 2% of the world's economy, and they'll lie and cheat and steal and even kill to get it.


How do you like that? Every once in a while! 

I agree with your statement as well.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I always knit two straight rows - then join them in the circles - that way you can avoid it getting twisted. It is easy to pull the two sections together once you have started knitting in the round. It is too easy to get it twisted without doing the two or 3 rows flat.


Shirley, I forgot to say... I LOVE your sweater! It's awesome!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> you said it Joey-- only reverse it. Your minds are closed , not ours.


Designer, your sweater is superb! The fit is perfect. Looks fantastic.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Was that the pb thing that happened a few years ago? Or did it happen again? I'm glad we have a pb expert on board. Once a pb expert, always a pb expert!


This was a few years ago. Trader Joe's had apologies posted where their blessedly cheap PB used to be. Now it's back.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am sickened by tonight's news. Not as a Democrat, but as a mother. I guess you can't swipe a pack of smokes in Ferguson without putting your life on the line. My heart goes out to Michael Brown's parents who feel that they didn't receive the justice that they were hoping for. Such a waste of a young life.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Shirley, I forgot to say... I LOVE your sweater! It's awesome!


Thanks -- it is so nice to have support from my friends when I make something from scratch with no pattern. You guys are like my husband -- He always tells me what he really thinks and is proud of my work. If something hits him wrong he tells me and always it is something that was bothering me. It is so nice that you all like my sweater. I just blocked it and sprayed it lightly with water - so it will be dry in the morning. I had some large balls of red heart acrylic that I used for afghans - they turned into this sweater. YOu don't need to spend a fortune on yarn. I never do.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks -- it is so nice to have support from my friends when I make something from scratch with no pattern. You guys are like my husband -- He always tells me what he really thinks and is proud of my work. If something hits him wrong he tells me and always it is something that was bothering me. It is so nice that you all like my sweater. I just blocked it and sprayed it lightly with water - so it will be dry in the morning. I had some large balls of red heart acrylic that I used for afghans - they turned into this sweater. YOu don't need to spend a fortune on yarn. I never do.


I love that sweater! The colors are amazing and look great on you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am sickened by tonight's news. Not as a Democrat, but as a mother. I guess you can't swipe a pack of smokes in Ferguson without putting your life on the line. My heart goes out to Michael Brown's parents who feel that they didn't receive the justice that they were hoping for. Such a waste of a young life.


I have been watching it all afternoon and evening . I feel so sick about what is happening - I feel for those who tried so hard to march without any problems - The anger is so expected in the situation. I feel a bit sickened. I just dont think that the Prosecutor was honest jmo.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I could do the hermit thing, as well. I've had enough of neighborhood living. A couple of days ago, my next door neighbor put a used toilet by the curb! Really?!? A toilet?!?


At least there would not be a need to use air fresheners when you 'go'. Perhaps he was a little strapped for ready cash and was hoping that those who were 'caught short' would help him out by paying to use the facilities.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> At least there would not be a need to use air fresheners when you 'go'. Perhaps he was a little strapped for ready cash and was hoping that those who were 'caught short' would help him out by paying to use the facilities.


Oh, this reminds me of the days when we had the outdoor dunny and the poor men who came once a week to collect the offending cargo, place a lid on it and carry it out to the truck on their shoulders.

They all wore navy blue singlets and four corner knotted handkerchiefs on their heads. Always cheery. :shock:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You can believe what ever you want. Justice was served through the legal system. Would you have been happier with a lynch mob?


A lynch mob for a white cop in this country? I don't believe justice was served at all, and I don't think it is the end of it.
I am sure Michael Brown's parents would not have been happy with a lynch mob at all. Many people are upset about the decision of no indictment, both black and white.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> At least there would not be a need to use air fresheners when you 'go'. Perhaps he was a little strapped for ready cash and was hoping that those who were 'caught short' would help him out by paying to use the facilities.


 :XD:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is a waste of a young life
> Why did he swipe the smokes? It was his choice to steal. Then his actions following the theft, led to his ultimate death.


That's absurd Joey! Swiping a packet of smokes should never end in a person losing their life. Police are supposedly trained in all manner of diffusing and controlling situations, yet all too often, they react with their guns. This young man should not be dead.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's absurd Joey! Swiping a packet of smokes should never end in a person losing their life. Police are supposedly trained in all manner of diffusing and controlling situations, yet all too often, they react with their guns. This young man should not be dead.


I think they USED to be trained to diffuse and control. But I think lately, they're trained to treat everyone as enemy combatants. Don't think, just shoot! I don't know what happened when Michael Brown was killed. I wasn't there. But hardly a day goes by when I don't hear of a shooting or abuse by police! I think we need to insist that this stops! Deadly force is not always necessary!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Oh, this reminds me of the days when we had the outdoor dunny and the poor men who came once a week to collect the offending cargo, place a lid on it and carry it out to the truck on their shoulders.
> 
> They all wore navy blue singlets and four corner knotted handkerchiefs on their heads. Always cheery. :shock:


I was always frightened of them. And as for washing your hands after you use the toilet, sure, sure, sure, we all ran all the way back to the house just to wash our hands, right!!!! It makes me wonder how we survived.

Just talking to some friends about the decision everyone here is discussing. Yes, you probably guessed what they are saying. "Well, after all it is America, what else did you expect? Justice for someone who is not white?" Sad, isn't it?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It is a waste of a young life
> Why did he swipe the smokes? It was his choice to steal. Then his actions following the theft, led to his ultimate death.


Why don't you quit? "Why did he steal the smokes in the first place?" Well, we can't ask him now, can we? You are making a total horses Patootie out of yourself once again. "Constitution Joey" with no human feelings at all. Just a nit with a need to look ridiculous.

The cop shot the kid 10 times. That is nothing but excessive force used on an unarmed man. I don't care what color the victim is. It should never have happened. A taser pointed at his como se lamas would have stopped the kid in his tracks. He didn't have to be murdered. The cop had a choice too,and IMO he made the wrong one.

Once again, stealing does not warrant death in this country. You don't know what happened any more than the rest of us. None of us were there.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! I too, read about the 12 year old. Outrageous! But the worst story I ever heard (video and audio captured), was the mentally ill young man beaten to death for doing nothing! You can hear him crying out for his daddy. The officers who beat him to death, got off scot free! This was in California. I wonder.... Do the police "protect and serve" anymore?


Nebs - what is Furgeson like demographically?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think they USED to be trained to diffuse and control. But I think lately, they're trained to treat everyone as enemy combatants. Don't think, just shoot! I don't know what happened when Michael Brown was killed. I wasn't there. But hardly a day goes by when I don't hear of a shooting or abuse by police! I think we need to insist that this stops! Deadly force is not always necessary!


It's a frightening type of police mentality which can be so unpredictable and cause massive collateral damage as we can see with Ferguson.

British police don't carry guns during the general course of their duties and you don't hear of police causing unnecessary deaths there. It is possible for them to police using their observational and perception skills but, and I make no apology in saying this, in my experience, police officers are not very smart. Not smart at all.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I was always frightened of them. And as for washing your hands after you use the toilet, sure, sure, sure, we all ran all the way back to the house just to wash our hands, right!!!! It makes me wonder how we survived.
> 
> Just talking to some friends about the decision everyone here is discussing. Yes, you probably guessed what they are saying. "Well, after all it is America, what else did you expect? Justice for someone who is not white?" Sad, isn't it?


There is that I'm sure but as I've just posted, I don't think the majority of police officers are all that smart. They over react instead of assessing a situation, thinking it through and going from there. Of course there are times when an immediate reaction is necessary but I have to wonder, watching the way Australian police behave in managing unruly crowds, it's no wonder the situation escalates because they're bullish and aggressive way before it's necessary. The mounted police do a far better job at calming things down. It seems people respect the horses far more than the police riding them.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's a frightening type of police mentality which can be so unpredictable and cause massive collateral damage as we can see with Ferguson.
> 
> British police don't carry guns during the general course of their duties and you don't hear of police causing unnecessary deaths there. It is possible for them to police using their observational and perception skills but, and I make no apology in saying this, in my experience, police officers are not very smart. Not smart at all.


I have to disagree on the last part of your quote,wombat. There are some very smart cops out there.It's just the cops with a power complex that gives the others a bad name. In this case, I think that Darren Wilson was one of those power hungry cops. Since he hasn't been indicted I think someone should bitchslap him from one end of Missouri to the other and then make him "dance" like they did in the old western cowboy movies, just so he could see how it feels. 
Okay, I am starting to calm down now. I just feel so bad for his parents.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have to disagree on the last part of your quote,wombat. There are some very smart cops out there.It's just the cops with a power complex that gives the others a bad name. In this case, I think that Darren Wilson was one of those power hungry cops.


Sorry to be so generalist. I'm talking about my own experience with police officers both professionally and privately which has been extensive (professionally). I'm not impressed at all.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is a waste of a young life
> Why did he swipe the smokes? It was his choice to steal. Then his actions following the theft, led to his ultimate death.


For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sorry to be so generalist. I'm talking about my own experience with police officers both professionally and privately which has been extensive (professionally). I'm not impressed at all.


Okay.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It started with the theft. Then it was his actions fighting with the policeman at his car, then running away, and finally charging at the policeman with his hands under his shirt that caused his death. Brown's actions escalated the situation. Since he now was the suspect in a robbery (theft). Wasn't it the officer's duty to apprehend him?


Can you prove that is what happened? Were you an eye witness at the scene?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It started with the theft. Then it was his actions fighting with the policeman at his car, then running away, and finally charging at the policeman with his hands under his shirt that caused his death. Brown's actions escalated the situation. Since he now was the suspect in a robbery (theft). Wasn't it the officer's duty to apprehend him?


Apprehend yes. Shoot to kill? NO.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Just in the last week there have been 3 police shootings resulting in 3 deaths in Queensland:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-25/investigation-launched-into-fatal-police-shooting-gold-coast/5914980


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Apprehend yes. Shoot to kill? NO.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! I too, read about the 12 year old. Outrageous! But the worst story I ever heard (video and audio captured), was the mentally ill young man beaten to death for doing nothing! You can hear him crying out for his daddy. The officers who beat him to death, got off scot free! This was in California. I wonder.... Do the police "protect and serve" anymore?


Knitter from Nebraska
let's face it, most Police are good people but some are just Thugs. Look into Court Records and find how many beat and threaten their wives. Frightening.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Did you listen to what the prosecutor said? I just repeated it, with fewer words. Or do you not care about the evidence presented to the Grand Jury? I guess not.


joeysomma
All I heard was the "Defense" making its case, where was the Prosecution? Total injustice. No matter what this young Man did before he was killed, he did not deserve to die and if the Officer gets scared so quickly when his opponent presents no Firearm, he scares me to death.
Innocent until proven guilty, the young Man was guilty from the get go in Officer Wilson's estimation. Wilson is not a Cop I want to ever be confronted by.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Just in the last week there have been 3 police shootings resulting in 3 deaths in Queensland:
> 
> http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-25/investigation-launched-into-fatal-police-shooting-gold-coast/5914980


We also had a shooting death in Perth and the police officers who were involved were arrested and questioned for about 12 hours. There was an article in the Sunday Times, telling of the ordeal sufferred by the person who was held hostage by the person who was shot. He ran into the deli and dragged the shop assistant outside, holding a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her. He said he wanted the police to give him money and a car. She begged him to take money from the till and told him where her car keys were and told him to take her car. He then stabbed her in the back, she thought she was going to die. The police shot the man dead, but unfortunately the hostage was also shot twice, once in the arm and once in the leg. The hospital spokesperson said she would not regain full use of her arm because the bullet shattered the bone, and she was lucky not to have lost her leg because the bullet severed a main artery and there was no blood supply to the lower leg.

A totally different scenario to the American shooting, I know, but also a different response to the police action. The police will have to face an internal police investigation and until then they are suspended on full pay. There have been calls to disarm the police after the recent shootings. They say that the Tasers should be enough. I do not know if a Taser would have stopped the guy in the WA shooting.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is a waste of a young life
> Why did he swipe the smokes? It was his choice to steal. Then his actions following the theft, led to his ultimate death.


joeysomma
D. Issa stole much more and look where he sits and prosecutes others.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> He was the PROSECUTER. Actually you have judged Wilson guilty because you have refused to listen to the evidence. How did the officer know he had no firearm?


How did the officer know or did not know? How long is a piece of string?

That's a rhetorical question - one that needn't be asked.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you listen to what the prosecutor said? I just repeated it, with fewer words. Or do you not care about the evidence presented to the Grand Jury? I guess not.


Much fewer words....


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's a frightening type of police mentality which can be so unpredictable and cause massive collateral damage as we can see with Ferguson.
> 
> British police don't carry guns during the general course of their duties and you don't hear of police causing unnecessary deaths there. It is possible for them to police using their observational and perception skills but, and I make no apology in saying this, in my experience, police officers are not very smart. Not smart at all.


It is no secret that in the US, having too high an IQ disqualifies an applicant for hire as a policeman. They don't want smart people on the force.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The penalty for theft, after a fair trial, is not death. This is not justice.



joeysomma said:


> It is a waste of a young life
> Why did he swipe the smokes? It was his choice to steal. Then his actions following the theft, led to his ultimate death.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Count me as a white person upset by the injustice.



BrattyPatty said:


> A lynch mob for a white cop in this country? I don't believe justice was served at all, and I don't think it is the end of it.
> I am sure Michael Brown's parents would not have been happy with a lynch mob at all. Many people are upset about the decision of no indictment, both black and white.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO this young man would not be dead if he were white. The injustice starts there.



Wombatnomore said:


> That's absurd Joey! Swiping a packet of smokes should never end in a person losing their life. Police are supposedly trained in all manner of diffusing and controlling situations, yet all too often, they react with their guns. This young man should not be dead.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And military is distributing guns, jeeps, Hummers etc. What fun the the Wild and Wooly sheriffs to play war games! No thought of being peace officers.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think they USED to be trained to diffuse and control. But I think lately, they're trained to treat everyone as enemy combatants. Don't think, just shoot! I don't know what happened when Michael Brown was killed. I wasn't there. But hardly a day goes by when I don't hear of a shooting or abuse by police! I think we need to insist that this stops! Deadly force is not always necessary!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It is sad, Eve. It is also true that America has still not discovered the hidden racism that rages in our country. This almost 50 years after the Civil Rights Act. Back to the drawing board kicking and screaming that it's someone else's fault.



EveMCooke said:


> I was always frightened of them. And as for washing your hands after you use the toilet, sure, sure, sure, we all ran all the way back to the house just to wash our hands, right!!!! It makes me wonder how we survived.
> 
> Just talking to some friends about the decision everyone here is discussing. Yes, you probably guessed what they are saying. "Well, after all it is America, what else did you expect? Justice for someone who is not white?" Sad, isn't it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We weren't there but we can still form an opinion based on ten shots at an unarmed boy...the fact that his body laid in the street for 4 hours...the hiding of the policeman's identity...the long lead up to the lack of indictment, including releasing the information during holiday.



BrattyPatty said:


> Why don't you quit? "Why did he steal the smokes in the first place?" Well, we can't ask him now, can we? You are making a total horses Patootie out of yourself once again. "Constitution Joey" with no human feelings at all. Just a nit with a need to look ridiculous.
> 
> The cop shot the kid 10 times. That is nothing but excessive force used on an unarmed man. I don't care what color the victim is. It should never have happened. A taser pointed at his como se lamas would have stopped the kid in his tracks. He didn't have to be murdered. The cop had a choice too,and IMO he made the wrong one.
> 
> Once again, stealing does not warrant death in this country. You don't know what happened any more than the rest of us. None of us were there.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I understand your temper Patty. I share it too. I give so much credit to his parents too. I can't help believing that justice will be served eventually.

How can a mother live with the fear that their child may be murdered by the police when they leave the house?



BrattyPatty said:


> I have to disagree on the last part of your quote,wombat. There are some very smart cops out there.It's just the cops with a power complex that gives the others a bad name. In this case, I think that Darren Wilson was one of those power hungry cops. Since he hasn't been indicted I think someone should bitchslap him from one end of Missouri to the other and then make him "dance" like they did in the old western cowboy movies, just so he could see how it feels.
> Okay, I am starting to calm down now. I just feel so bad for his parents.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Apprehend? Yes. Murder? No.

BIG difference.



joeysomma said:


> It started with the theft. Then it was his actions fighting with the policeman at his car, then running away, and finally charging at the policeman with his hands under his shirt that caused his death. Brown's actions escalated the situation. Since he now was the suspect in a robbery (theft). Wasn't it the officer's duty to apprehend him?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In the Ferguson case, I'm afraid an internal investigation would not serve justice. I hope our much-maligned Federal Government will pursue the matter.



EveMCooke said:


> We also had a shooting death in Perth and the police officers who were involved were arrested and questioned for about 12 hours. There was an article in the Sunday Times, telling of the ordeal sufferred by the person who was held hostage by the person who was shot. He ran into the deli and dragged the shop assistant outside, holding a knife to her throat, threatening to kill her. He said he wanted the police to give him money and a car. She begged him to take money from the till and told him where her car keys were and told him to take her car. He then stabbed her in the back, she thought she was going to die. The police shot the man dead, but unfortunately the hostage was also shot twice, once in the arm and once in the leg. The hospital spokesperson said she would not regain full use of her arm because the bullet shattered the bone, and she was lucky not to have lost her leg because the bullet severed a main artery and there was no blood supply to the lower leg.
> 
> A totally different scenario to the American shooting, I know, but also a different response to the police action. The police will have to face an internal police investigation and until then they are suspended on full pay. There have been calls to disarm the police after the recent shootings. They say that the Tasers should be enough. I do not know if a Taser would have stopped the guy in the WA shooting.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> He was the PROSECUTER. Actually you have judged Wilson guilty because you have refused to listen to the evidence. How did the officer know he had no firearm?


He had his hands in the air and was surrendering when the officer shot him 10 times.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> He had his hands in the air and was surrendering when the officer shot him 10 times.


That is basically a lie because it does not represent the truth. Just because his hands were up does not mean he was surrendering. According to the facts his hands were up in a attacking position as he was running towards the officer to attack him. Brown was not a teenager, but legally a 6'5" adult that was charging towards a 6'0" officer. The gun was discharged in the officer's car while Brown was trying to get it and while he was attacking the officer. The forensics proves that. He was not shot in the back, running away.

I am saddened by the fact that he died at such a young age. But I am also saddened that a young man felt a need to attack an officer, which set a tragedy in motion.

Also remember that this Grand Jury had been seated for months before the shooting. They had heard hundreds of cases by the same prosecutor and yet there were no complaints about how they were doing. They tenure was extended, the jurors had a relationship wit the prosecutor and it just made sense to try to seat a new Grand Jury.

In addition, I also believe that all the rioting, looting, violence, and starting fires have harmed everyone. Peoples business are gone. How did that help anyone or anything? I believe this violence has not gained anyone's sympathy for Brown.

I said three months ago that when the facts are presented Michael was not an innocent victim. Look at the facts and testimony. And then tell me how the facts justify the violence all over the country.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

I can't help thinking about the fact that police are rarely charged when things like this happen. IF the incident did not involve a policeman, there would have been a trial. The standard of evidence for a grand jury is far lower than it is in a capital case, so the prosecutor (in this case the prosecutor switched places and became the defense) did everything he could to make sure there was no trial. We see that over and over. No wonder people have lost faith in our justice system. It isn't just.

Our fascination with guns is part of the problem. A 12-year-old shot and killed just this week because he had a bb gun that looked like a "real" gun. He did a stupid thing by reaching for the gun when approached by the police so there may be justification there, especially when one considers the ongoing rash of random mass killings by the insane. Same for the young man shot down in a store for no other reason than he was carrying a toy gun or the young man shot by police while crossing a field, carrying a toy that LOOKED real. Where does this end, when people think fake weapons are appropriate as toys? That boy was shot 11 times, as I recall. 11 times? Police obviously are being trained not to apprehend or disable - they are trained to KILL any perceived threat. This is crazy.

My own grandson is studying Criminal Justice and plans to become a US Marshall. I don't like his choice of careers AT ALL. He already is developing a warrior mindset and it has come about only AFTER beginning his studies. And that's just classroom training - I hate to think about the changes we will see once he enters a police academy. I hope he never has to use a weapon against another human being.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Nebs - what is Furgeson like demographically?


Ferguson never came on my radar until this event. There are so many suburbs of St Louis, and most I'd only heard of in passing. The only other time I'd heard of it was when some friends of ours (a mixed race family) moved there. This was after we'd moved away from St Louis and we'd lost touch with that family soon after. They'd been our neighbors in Creve Couer and our boys and theirs were best friends. I've been thinking a lot about Jimmy and Jason, and wondering if they're OK and how this is affecting their lives. I wonder if they're married or have kids. They'd be in their early 30s now.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's a frightening type of police mentality which can be so unpredictable and cause massive collateral damage as we can see with Ferguson.
> 
> British police don't carry guns during the general course of their duties and you don't hear of police causing unnecessary deaths there. It is possible for them to police using their observational and perception skills but, and I make no apology in saying this, in my experience, police officers are not very smart. Not smart at all.


IMO, there are two types of people who go into police work. There are those who care and believe in justice, who want to do good, to protect and serve. They feel a sense of righteousness, a need to make the world a better place. And then there are the bullies, those who go into police work because it allows them hold power over others. These are the ones who abuse people they consider under them. My opinion of bullies is always, that they are stupid.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is that I'm sure but as I've just posted, I don't think the majority of police officers are all that smart. They over react instead of assessing a situation, thinking it through and going from there. Of course there are times when an immediate reaction is necessary but I have to wonder, watching the way Australian police behave in managing unruly crowds, it's no wonder the situation escalates because they're bullish and aggressive way before it's necessary. The mounted police do a far better job at calming things down. It seems people respect the horses far more than the police riding them.


I don't think they're trained to access a situation anymore. They're trained to react with deadly force. That's why officer Wilson said he didn't do anything wrong. He just did what he was trained to do.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It started with the theft. Then it was his actions fighting with the policeman at his car, then running away, and finally charging at the policeman with his hands under his shirt that caused his death. Brown's actions escalated the situation. Since he now was the suspect in a robbery (theft). Wasn't it the officer's duty to apprehend him?


Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Count me as a white person upset by the injustice.


I am another one. Why didn't the police officer call for back up if his story is true - why didn't he use a taser?. It is so sad and so unbelievable to me that people really think he deserved to die, unarmed because he stole a package of cigars and was walking down the middle of the road because he was a big BOY not man. I do not believe he would have died if he had been white.

Why was no one surprised at the verdict. Why wasn't the policeman charged with something and then a trial held? We all know why. Why did the prosecutor wait all day to announce the 'verdict' instead of announcing it this morning or during daylight? Everyone, including the Prosecutor knew there would be trouble -- My heart aches for his family .


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

So, has the recent GOP review of Benghazi been discussed here? They found no discrepancy regarding how it was handled by the administration. Interesting to me.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


I agree l00% - Lots of us have had a teenager who did stupid things, lots have gotten themselves into trouble, learned their lesson and became good citizens- He should have been charged with petty theft and dealt with that way. He should not have been shot l0 times because the policeman saw a big black man instead of a boy. A black young man (teenager) grows up afraid of the police in the US in many places. That might have had something to do with the young man's actions. He knew he would not be treated fairly- and he was right.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can you prove that is what happened? Were you an eye witness at the scene?


None of us were witness to the events of that day. None of us sat on that grand jury. None of us knows, whether what we've heard is the truth or not. What we do know is that we don't want the police killing teenagers. As a people, we should insist that our police officers receive training appropriate to their positions. They are not soldiers fighting an enemy! They should not receive military training which causes them to see everyone as an enemy. They should receive training where they see these people as somebody's child. They should be trying to do what's best for the public, but also what's best for the individual involved. Michael Brown could have been approached in a different manner. He could have been approached as a teenager who stole some cigars. If he had been, everything may have ended differently. But officer Wilson couldn't see Michael as a teenager who stole some cigars because he'd been trained to see him as a dangerous enemy. It saddens me because officer Wilson could have reached out to a troubled youth and made a difference in his life. Instead, he came across as a hard ass and put Brown into a combative position. What a waste! How many lives have been ruined?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Apprehend yes. Shoot to kill? NO.


 :thumbup:


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

For a moment of levity - check out the thread with the title "Ten reasons to invite dogs for Thanksgiving".


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Did you listen to what the prosecutor said? I just repeated it, with fewer words. Or do you not care about the evidence presented to the Grand Jury? I guess not.


Just because the grand jury decided that officer Wilson followed the law, doesn't mean that we shouldn't want the laws to change! If officer Wilson had handled things differently, a young man would still be alive and many lives would not have been ruined!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> That is basically a lie because it does not represent the truth. Just because his hands were up does not mean he was surrendering. According to the facts his hands were up in a attacking position as he was running towards the officer to attack him. Brown was not a teenager, but legally a 6'5" adult that was charging towards a 6'0" officer. The gun was discharged in the officer's car while Brown was trying to get it and while he was attacking the officer. The forensics proves that. He was not shot in the back, running away.
> 
> I am saddened by the fact that he died at such a young age. But I am also saddened that a young man felt a need to attack an officer, which set a tragedy in motion.
> 
> ...


Why does it not surprise anyone that you and Joey have absolutely no pity or belief that it could have been handled in a different way. Why wasn't he tasered instead of shot? Why wasn't back up called - Do you honestly (way down deep, believe that this would have happened if it was a big white man)? We all know that you are judge and jury ." You always said" so many things -- you are the expert . All over the country people disagree with you. They have a right to protest the innocent young men being shot - teenagers, who might have done something stupid. He could have been tasered, if the police officer was afraid.

It wasn't right that a few burned buildings and cars. They should have be arrested and charged too. I think that there is going to be a huge backlash over these killings and the US is going to finally have to deal with the problems of racial profiling by Police Departments. I feel so sad for those who have teenage boys and young men for sons. They must be afraid every time they go out. There is so much anger and fear.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> He was the PROSECUTER. Actually you have judged Wilson guilty because you have refused to listen to the evidence. How did the officer know he had no firearm?


I've not heard anyone say that officer Wilson tried to calm him down. He reacted with force. It is human nature to respond to force, with force. This is especially true of young males. Things could have ended differently, if Wilson had, had appropriate training.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It is no secret that in the US, having too high an IQ disqualifies an applicant for hire as a policeman. They don't want smart people on the force.


I've read that as well.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> In the Ferguson case, I'm afraid an internal investigation would not serve justice. I hope our much-maligned Federal Government will pursue the matter.


And President Obama will be vilified because he is black too and therefore can't be fair. Can't you see that already? It was wrong - and nothing anyone else can say will convince those around the world who are watching that a l6 year old boy should be shot for stealing a package of cigars. I wonder if Americans are aware that the world is watching?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And military is distributing guns, jeeps, Hummers etc. What fun the the Wild and Wooly sheriffs to play war games! No thought of being peace officers.


IMO, the buck stops at the federal government. They're the ones putting war machines on our streets and training our police officers. I'll risk being called a conspiracy theorist by saying that I believe that the federal government is preparing for martial law. All of the military equipment and the militarized training is in effect, to prepare for forceful control the population. People will obey because they will fear the police. Fear and military might are powerful tools of control.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> None of us were witness to the events of that day. None of us sat on that grand jury. None of us knows, whether what we've heard is the truth or not. What we do know is that we don't want the police killing teenagers. As a people, we should insist that our police officers receive training appropriate to their positions. They are not soldiers fighting an enemy! They should not receive military training which causes them to see everyone as an enemy. They should receive training where they see these people as somebody's child. They should be trying to do what's best for the public, but also what's best for the individual involved. Michael Brown could have been approached in a different manner. He could have been approached as a teenager who stole some cigars. If he had been, everything may have ended differently. But officer Wilson couldn't see Michael as a teenager who stole some cigars because he'd been trained to see him as a dangerous enemy. It saddens me because officer Wilson could have reached out to a troubled youth and made a difference in his life. Instead, he came across as a hard ass and put Brown into a combative position. What a waste! How many lives have been ruined?


Hundreds??? thousands????


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you listen to what the prosecutor said? I just repeated it, with fewer words. Or do you not care about the evidence presented to the Grand Jury? I guess not.


It was the first time that type of Grand jury was used in a case like this. Why wasn't the policeman charged and a trial held? Why wasn't back up called? you seem to know all about it Joey -- were you there?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> It is sad, Eve. It is also true that America has still not discovered the hidden racism that rages in our country. This almost 50 years after the Civil Rights Act. Back to the drawing board kicking and screaming that it's someone else's fault.


IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> In the Ferguson case, I'm afraid an internal investigation would not serve justice. I hope our much-maligned Federal Government will pursue the matter.


IMO, the federal government is responsible for the conditions that led to all of this! They've created the poverty and the ghettos. They've encouraged the racial divide. And they've trained police forces in military practices.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It's a frightening type of police mentality which can be so unpredictable and cause massive collateral damage as we can see with Ferguson.
> 
> British police don't carry guns during the general course of their duties and you don't hear of police causing unnecessary deaths there. It is possible for them to police using their observational and perception skills but, and I make no apology in saying this, in my experience, police officers are not very smart. Not smart at all.


Not fair. I once met a very bright British officer. In 1968. But seriously, British criminals don't always carry guns, either. In this country, guns are practically forced on you. In some areas everyone has a gun, so maybe for the first shot the cop was being careful, but once it became clear that the boy had no gun, that should have ended the shooting.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> He had his hands in the air and was surrendering when the officer shot him 10 times.


Just because somebody says it, doesn't make it so. We don't know what happened. But we have a right to expect that our police aren't killing our teenagers. I think that instead of speculating on what happened leading up to the shooting, we should focus on what didn't happen. Officer Wilson didn't do anything to diffuse the situation. He didn't try to talk Michael down. He didn't try to use non lethal force. He came across as a hard ass and escalated the situation. This is what needs to change!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It started with the theft. Then it was his actions fighting with the policeman at his car, then running away, and finally charging at the policeman with his hands under his shirt that caused his death. Brown's actions escalated the situation. Since he now was the suspect in a robbery (theft). Wasn't it the officer's duty to apprehend him?


Apprehend=Kill? In what system?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


Many minorities have made it because of the initial help. Sounds like you are categorizing all blacks into one bleak pigeon hole. There is certainly a black middle class.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> That is basically a lie because it does not represent the truth. Just because his hands were up does not mean he was surrendering. According to the facts his hands were up in a attacking position as he was running towards the officer to attack him. Brown was not a teenager, but legally a 6'5" adult that was charging towards a 6'0" officer. The gun was discharged in the officer's car while Brown was trying to get it and while he was attacking the officer. The forensics proves that. He was not shot in the back, running away.
> 
> I am saddened by the fact that he died at such a young age. But I am also saddened that a young man felt a need to attack an officer, which set a tragedy in motion.
> 
> ...


I think we should be asking ourselves WHY Michael reacted the way he did. Why are people protesting and rioting? It's what they've been programmed to do.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> How about no crime was committed by anyone other than Brown. But then you don't believe that the officer was doing his sworn duty. Your mind seems closed to the facts presented by the Prosecutor at the time he announced the verdict. Did you hear the autopsy report? All three agreed. One was done by the local jurisdiction, one by the feds, and a special one as requested by the family. But then why lets the facts get in the way?


What was the conclusion of the family-sponsored autopsy? I think the dr. was Baden of OJ Simpson infamy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO this young man would not be dead if he were white. The injustice starts there.


You're probably right. Nor would a white 12-year-old with a toy gun.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I understand your temper Patty. I share it too. I give so much credit to his parents too. I can't help believing that justice will be served eventually.
> 
> How can a mother live with the fear that their child may be murdered by the police when they leave the house?


I've heard this question raised by black parents often. It doesn't matter what economic class they're in, how much education they've had. When a black teenage boy goes out of his house, his parents worry, for good reason.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


Knitter from Nebraska
how smart you are. If only the Police could think like that but give a person a Gun and they will make use of it freely.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> He was the PROSECUTER. Actually you have judged Wilson guilty because you have refused to listen to the evidence. How did the officer know he had no firearm?


joeysomma
According to the Cop the Victim tried to go for the Officers Gun, does the sound like the Victim had a Gun? You are the one who decided, I have not. The Victim was guilty of some things, rather minor compared to what the Cop did.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


Let us remember Michael Brown's size. My son is as big as he is. I know he can bench press over 400 pounds. He is an offensive lineman whose job it is to protect the quarterback. No one on the defense has ever gotten to his quarterback on his side of the line, honestly they are terrified of him and his ability to protect his quarterback. When his uniform and helmet are on he becomes a warrior and is totally focused on his job. When he comes home, showers and eats out the refrigerator he becomes the Pillsbury Doughboy. If you met him only at home or at school he is a gentle giant that says 'yes ma'am and yes sir'. He has been lectured by me over and over again that if he gets in trouble because of speeding he is to put his hands on the wheel, become serene and say only 'yes officer or no officer' . Because of his size he can appear menacing and not be at all. So you will hear conflicting reports about Michael Brown being a gentle giant. But if he had his warrior face on he would have been a terrifying force of humanity. Also a person of his size does not look his age, that is just a fact people will think he is much older.

I am sorry that he died in such a horrible way. But I am also sorry that he attacked an officer, struck him trying to get his gun, ran away when told to stop, and then turned around to charge at the officer.

And besides that, what is the justification for all the looting, burning of stores and cars? There is none. For me the group of protesters all over the country are nothing but thugs and felons that have purposefully destroyed people's lives.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've heard this question raised by black parents often. It doesn't matter what economic class they're in, how much education they've had. When a black teenage boy goes out of his house, his parents worry, for good reason.


Poor Purl
ever notice that you never see black individuals in some areas? Black people out of fear for the Police in those neighborhoods go way out of their way to avoid these communities. Speak with black people and find out how frequently they are getting stopped for nothing. They are being harassed on a regular basis. How would we take such mistreatment?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO this young man would not be dead if he were white. The injustice starts there.


damemary
you are so right.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Let us remember Michael Brown's size. My son is as big as he is. I know he can bench press over 400 pounds. He is an offensive lineman whose job it is to protect the quarterback. No one on the defense has ever gotten to his quarterback on his side of the line, honestly they are terrified of him and his ability to protect his quarterback. When his uniform and helmet are on he becomes a warrior and is totally focused on his job. When he comes home, showers and eats out the refrigerator he becomes the Pillsbury Doughboy. If you met him only at home or at school he is a gentle giant that says 'yes ma'am and yes sir'. He has been lectured by me over and over again that if he gets in trouble because of speeding he is to put his hands on the wheel, become serene and say only 'yes officer or no officer' . Because of his size he can appear menacing and not be at all. So you will hear conflicting reports about Michael Brown being a gentle giant. But if he had his warrior face on he would have been a terrifying force of humanity. Also a person of his size does not look his age, that is just a fact people will think he is much older.
> 
> I am sorry that he died in such a horrible way. But I am also sorry that he attacked an officer, struck him trying to get his gun, ran away when told to stop, and then turned around to charge at the officer.
> 
> And besides that, what is the justification for all the looting, burning of stores and cars? There is none. For me the group of protesters all over the country are nothing but thugs and felons that have purposefully destroyed people's lives.


Yes, even those who did not riot and loot are thugs and felons, right? Some say he did not attack the cop, some say he did. There is no evidence to prove otherwise. 12 people made the decision not to indict the cop, but many, many, people around the country think that it is not the right decision.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I am another one. Why didn't the police officer call for back up if his story is true - why didn't he use a taser?. It is so sad and so unbelievable to me that people really think he deserved to die, unarmed because he stole a package of cigars and was walking down the middle of the road because he was a big BOY not man. I do not believe he would have died if he had been white.
> 
> Why was no one surprised at the verdict. Why wasn't the policeman charged with something and then a trial held? We all know why. Why did the prosecutor wait all day to announce the 'verdict' instead of announcing it this morning or during daylight? Everyone, including the Prosecutor knew there would be trouble -- My heart aches for his family .


Designer1234
Thank you for your compassion. The Prosecutor had the Verdict hours before he announced it but he and his "friends" want the black people to look bad and chose night time to go on the air knowing fair well that darkness brings out the most unsavory characters. McCulloch wants the black people to look like Thugs and made sure that things would take place which make them look like that. This whole thing was well designed by the Prosecutor. Sad is that innocent People lost their property and income and a few bad apples tarnished those who are decent black people, which is a majority by a wide margin.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I can't help thinking about the fact that police are rarely charged when things like this happen. IF the incident did not involve a policeman, there would have been a trial. The standard of evidence for a grand jury is far lower than it is in a capital case, so the prosecutor (in this case the prosecutor switched places and became the defense) did everything he could to make sure there was no trial. We see that over and over. No wonder people have lost faith in our justice system. It isn't just.
> 
> Our fascination with guns is part of the problem. A 12-year-old shot and killed just this week because he had a bb gun that looked like a "real" gun. He did a stupid thing by reaching for the gun when approached by the police so there may be justification there, especially when one considers the ongoing rash of random mass killings by the insane. Same for the young man shot down in a store for no other reason than he was carrying a toy gun or the young man shot by police while crossing a field, carrying a toy that LOOKED real. Where does this end, when people think fake weapons are appropriate as toys? That boy was shot 11 times, as I recall. 11 times? Police obviously are being trained not to apprehend or disable - they are trained to KILL any perceived threat. This is crazy.
> 
> My own grandson is studying Criminal Justice and plans to become a US Marshall. I don't like his choice of careers AT ALL. He already is developing a warrior mindset and it has come about only AFTER beginning his studies. And that's just classroom training - I hate to think about the changes we will see once he enters a police academy. I hope he never has to use a weapon against another human being.


Dgreen, I also hope your grandson never has to use a weapon against another. (It also sets up the situation for him to be put in harm's way. As a US Marshall, I assume it would be inevitable.) I'm so sorry.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It might be enlightening to know how their lives differed, if they did.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ferguson never came on my radar until this event. There are so many suburbs of St Louis, and most I'd only heard of in passing. The only other time I'd heard of it was when some friends of ours (a mixed race family) moved there. This was after we'd moved away from St Louis and we'd lost touch with that family soon after. They'd been our neighbors in Creve Couer and our boys and theirs were best friends. I've been thinking a lot about Jimmy and Jason, and wondering if they're OK and how this is affecting their lives. I wonder if they're married or have kids. They'd be in their early 30s now.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hear the GOP is still open to still another hearing. ?????????



GWPlver said:


> So, has the recent GOP review of Benghazi been discussed here? They found no discrepancy regarding how it was handled by the administration. Interesting to me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> None of us were witness to the events of that day. None of us sat on that grand jury. None of us knows, whether what we've heard is the truth or not. What we do know is that we don't want the police killing teenagers. As a people, we should insist that our police officers receive training appropriate to their positions. They are not soldiers fighting an enemy! They should not receive military training which causes them to see everyone as an enemy. They should receive training where they see these people as somebody's child. They should be trying to do what's best for the public, but also what's best for the individual involved. Michael Brown could have been approached in a different manner. He could have been approached as a teenager who stole some cigars. If he had been, everything may have ended differently. But officer Wilson couldn't see Michael as a teenager who stole some cigars because he'd been trained to see him as a dangerous enemy. It saddens me because officer Wilson could have reached out to a troubled youth and made a difference in his life. Instead, he came across as a hard ass and put Brown into a combative position. What a waste! How many lives have been ruined?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I did. I agreed with every one.



GWPlver said:


> For a moment of levity - check out the thread with the title "Ten reasons to invite dogs for Thanksgiving".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just because the grand jury decided that officer Wilson followed the law, doesn't mean that we shouldn't want the laws to change! If officer Wilson had handled things differently, a young man would still be alive and many lives would not have been ruined!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree l00% - Lots of us have had a teenager who did stupid things, lots have gotten themselves into trouble, learned their lesson and became good citizens- He should have been charged with petty theft and dealt with that way. He should not have been shot l0 times because the policeman saw a big black man instead of a boy. A black young man (teenager) grows up afraid of the police in the US in many places. That might have had something to do with the young man's actions. He knew he would not be treated fairly- and he was right.


Designer1234
Unfortunately the Victim was of big stature. Reminds me of a kid in our Neighborhood. This little guy came to me on a regular basis just to talk to me. He was 4 years old and on his little bike all the time. I would take my Bike and ride around with him as often as he liked me to. One day he came crying terribly. He asked me why nobody in the Neighborhood liked him. Well, this little Tike for example liked to put sticks into People's Air Conditioner and they got angry with him thinking that he should know better. My little Buddy was only 4 years old but had the body of a 9 year old and everyone thought he should know better. So I took it upon myself to put a letter in every mailbox explaining my Friend's dilemma. That changed everything, people started talking to him nicely and explained why he should not put sticks into the A/C and he stopped doing dumb things. He became the Mascot of the Neighborhood. 
Diplomacy works, anger does not. By the way, he grew up big, did well and I am still in touch with him.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> How did Brown's blood get inside the police car?


Why ask? You have the "facts"


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It would have ended differently if the two young men would not have stolen the smokes and if they had not been walking down the center of the road. Then there would have been no reason for the police to become involved.


In an ideal world, teenagers wouldn't steal anything or walk down the middle of the street. But that's not the world we live in! We live in a world where teenagers do stupid things. The human body is a funny thing. It can appear to be an adult, while the brain that controls it is still a child. At puberty, a boys body is flooded with testosterone that makes him think and do things that are not really within his control. It's the adults who should understand this and act appropriately. I've not read one, single report that suggested that officer Wilson tried to defuse the situation. He reacted with force! A male adolescent's natural response would be to react in kind. Do we want the police killing our teenage boys because they are teenage boys?


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I like that a grand jury will decide whether to try him. No favoritism, no bias (ideally).
> 
> Ferguson is a suburb of St Louis. Neither could be considered a southern town. We lived in two other suburbs of St Louis. It's like any other large metropolitan area. They're announcing the verdict now. I'll hold.
> 
> No charges! I can only assume that the grand jury knows more than we do and that they made the correct decision. But I still think that we need to take a good hard look at the militarization of our police forces. Our police are quick to shoot fist and ask questions later.


As to what you have said about police forces. There are good and bad people in every job. 
You can not take it to mean every police officer is bad. 
There are more good than what we see on tv or in the news.
How many police have been killed in the line of duty?
How many have saved lives.

What we are seeing and what we are not seeing is the good that they do.
I for one do see posted is how bad they are lumping them all together is as bad as saying that none are good

I for one am glad for the policeman who have shown up in my life and helping my family and I when having an need, be it helping to save our lives, to helping to make sure we did not need CPR before amblance arrived.

We will never know what grand jury saw and read. We tried the policemen before all was really know. If one of you where involve in some wrong action would you not want their help???

As to the rioting what good did it do, business whom had nothing to do with what happen were destroyed, and looted.
Even after the family of that young man ask that it not be, that instead of riots , make sure that all policmen wear camera's.

But stop blaming all police who are out there doing a job that I sure would not want to do. Be glad they are there to help and protect you and stop lumping all the way the news is reporting it.Look a little deeper, and really try to see what it is like for many that are descent men and women who have a hard job to do and get it right.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> It would have ended differently if the two young men would not have stolen the smokes and if they had not been walking down the center of the road. Then there would have been no reason for the police to become involved.


None of these 'crimes' should be punished by the death penalty administered by an individual. Please say what YOU believe.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In an ideal world, teenagers wouldn't steal anything or walk down the middle of the street. But that's not the world we live in! We live in a world where teenagers do stupid things. The human body is a funny thing. It can appear to be an adult, while the brain that controls it is still a child. At puberty, a boys body is flooded with testosterone that makes him think and do things that are not really within his control. It's the adults who should understand this and act appropriately. I've not read one, single report that suggested that officer Wilson tried to defuse the situation. He reacted with force! A male adolescent's natural response would be to react in kind. Do we want the police killing our teenage boys because they are teenage boys?


Very well stated, KFN


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just because the grand jury decided that officer Wilson followed the law, doesn't mean that we shouldn't want the laws to change! If officer Wilson had handled things differently, a young man would still be alive and many lives would not have been ruined!


Knitter from Nebraska
no doubt, some Laws need much revision.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> And President Obama will be vilified because he is black too and therefore can't be fair. Can't you see that already? It was wrong - and nothing anyone else can say will convince those around the world who are watching that a l6 year old boy should be shot for stealing a package of cigars. I wonder if Americans are aware that the world is watching?


Some segments of the US population think it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks. Hence the Ugly American was born.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It was the first time that type of Grand jury was used in a case like this. Why wasn't the policeman charged and a trial held? Why wasn't back up called? you seem to know all about it Joey -- were you there?


<<<whispering...no, she just has all the answers. >>>


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid you've lost me. No tin foil hats here.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agreed.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just because somebody says it, doesn't make it so. We don't know what happened. But we have a right to expect that our police aren't killing our teenagers. I think that instead of speculating on what happened leading up to the shooting, we should focus on what didn't happen. Officer Wilson didn't do anything to diffuse the situation. He didn't try to talk Michael down. He didn't try to use non lethal force. He came across as a hard ass and escalated the situation. This is what needs to change!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> How did Brown's blood get inside the police car?


joeysomma
we all have said that the Victim did some stupid things, get it? That however does not justify killing him, does it!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


How do they learn that when they are treated like 2nd class citizens. It is the same with our First nations people. Each generation learns from their parents - each parent has had experiences that color their view. A completely different approach must be made but who knows what the answer is. I do think however that there is a basic dislike of the blacks in America in many places but it is never acknowledged.

When one does well, are they congratulated or are they attacked? Some do pull themselves up by their bootstraps and should he respected for it. It is hard if you are living in poverty in ghettos because that is where others like you are living and you feel safer. It is a problem and the answers are not simple. jmo


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't wonder how many lives you've changed in your lifetime. I know it must be a great many. Thank you for making the world a better place.



Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Unfortunately the Victim was of big stature. Reminds me of a kid in our Neighborhood. This little guy came to me on a regular basis just to talk to me. He was 4 years old and on his little bike all the time. I would take my Bike and ride around with him as often as he liked me to. One day he came crying terribly. He asked me why nobody in the Neighborhood liked him. Well, this little Tike for example liked to put sticks into People's Air Conditioner and they got angry with him thinking that he should know better. My little Buddy was only 4 years old but had the body of a 9 year old and everyone thought he should know better. So I took it upon myself to put a letter in every mailbox explaining my Friend's dilemma. That changed everything, people started talking to him nicely and explained why he should not put sticks into the A/C and he stopped doing dumb things. He became the Mascot of the Neighborhood.
> Diplomacy works, anger does not. By the way, he grew up big, did well and I am still in touch with him.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you were black, you would have a different view of your friend the policeman.



theyarnlady said:


> As to what you have said about police forces. There are good and bad people in every job.
> You can not take it to mean every police officer is bad.
> There are more good than what we see on tv or in the news.
> How many police have been killed in the line of duty?
> ...


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In an ideal world, teenagers wouldn't steal anything or walk down the middle of the street. But that's not the world we live in! We live in a world where teenagers do stupid things. The human body is a funny thing. It can appear to be an adult, while the brain that controls it is still a child. At puberty, a boys body is flooded with testosterone that makes him think and do things that are not really within his control. It's the adults who should understand this and act appropriately. I've not read one, single report that suggested that officer Wilson tried to defuse the situation. He reacted with force! A male adolescent's natural response would be to react in kind. Do we want the police killing our teenage boys because they are teenage boys?


Knitter from Nebraska
ever noticed a teenager all of a sudden playing poorly on a Ball Team? The body is growing too fast and coordination limps behind. The Brain, needs a long, long time to develop and often never gets it right. Teenagers are incomplete people. Let's look back and think of the dumb things we did at that age.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps, in your opinion, he should have just killed himself since he was responsible for his own death.



joeysomma said:


> Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> None of us were witness to the events of that day. None of us sat on that grand jury. None of us knows, whether what we've heard is the truth or not. What we do know is that we don't want the police killing teenagers. As a people, we should insist that our police officers receive training appropriate to their positions. They are not soldiers fighting an enemy! They should not receive military training which causes them to see everyone as an enemy. They should receive training where they see these people as somebody's child. They should be trying to do what's best for the public, but also what's best for the individual involved. Michael Brown could have been approached in a different manner. He could have been approached as a teenager who stole some cigars. If he had been, everything may have ended differently. But officer Wilson couldn't see Michael as a teenager who stole some cigars because he'd been trained to see him as a dangerous enemy. It saddens me because officer Wilson could have reached out to a troubled youth and made a difference in his life. Instead, he came across as a hard ass and put Brown into a combative position. What a waste! How many lives have been ruined?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> And President Obama will be vilified because he is black too and therefore can't be fair. Can't you see that already? It was wrong - and nothing anyone else can say will convince those around the world who are watching that a l6 year old boy should be shot for stealing a package of cigars. I wonder if Americans are aware that the world is watching?


I've a real stake in racism in America. Someday, my grandson will be considered a young, black man. I'm mad! I don't think obama is doing anything to reduce racism. In fact, I think he perpetuates it! He widens the divide! He uses racism as an excuse! He trots out in front of the media when Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are killed. Where is he when the thousands of other kids are killed? If the president cared about black people, he would do what is necessary to put them to work! That's the only thing that will end poverty! It's the only thing that will make these people proud, productive people. Give these people something to live for! Something that matters! Quit telling them, they are victims! Stop holding them back! Move forward! Focus on the future instead of the past. Fix the problems instead of whining about them. If black teens saw their parents work hard and prosper, they would do the same. If these teens were working at McDonalds or Burger King, they wouldn't be hanging out on the street with gangs. Our country is broken! Instead of trying to fix it, our government is catering to the 1%. If obama cared about black people, he would have done something about it, instead of whining about it! Nothing will ever be OK without the jobs!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And if Brown had not committed the robbery, and had not walked down the middle of the street, and had not slammed the police car's door, and had not tried to get the officer's gun and had got down on the ground as was ordered. He would be alive.


joeysomma
wrong, the boy would have been dead no matter what. That is the order of the day for blacks and not teens only. How about the 46 year old guy selling Cigarettes and being chocked to death? Killing him for such a minor offense? So sad.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> So, has the recent GOP review of Benghazi been discussed here? They found no discrepancy regarding how it was handled by the administration. Interesting to me.


This was not even the first such report. They can be used as a memory test: LWs will remember them, often in great detail. RWs will completely forget what they said and insist on investigating all over again.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Hundreds??? thousands????


I think even more. So many young people across this country are watching what's going on. They're being taught helplessness. They are being fed outrage. Its like a ripple in a pond. Who knows how far it will go?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not fair. I once met a very bright British officer. In 1968. But seriously, British criminals don't always carry guns, either. In this country, guns are practically forced on you. In some areas everyone has a gun, so maybe for the first shot the cop was being careful, but once it became clear that the boy had no gun, that should have ended the shooting.


I agree! If Michael had had a gun, he'd have brought it out after the first shot. It was obvious at that point that he was unarmed. But it was just instinct for Wilson to keep shooting. It's how they're trained.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've a real stake in racism in America. Someday, my grandson will be considered a young, black man. I'm mad! I don't think obama is doing anything to reduce racism. In fact, I think he perpetuates it! He widens the divide! He uses racism as an excuse! He trots out in front of the media when Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are killed. Where is he when the thousands of other kids are killed? If the president cared about black people, he would do what is necessary to put them to work! That's the only thing that will end poverty! It's the only thing that will make these people proud, productive people. Give these people something to live for! Something that matters! Quit telling them, they are victims! Stop holding them back! Move forward! Focus on the future instead of the past. Fix the problems instead of whining about them. If black teens saw their parents work hard and prosper, they would do the same. If these teens were working at McDonalds or Burger King, they wouldn't be hanging out on the street with gangs. Our country is broken! Instead of trying to fix it, our government is catering to the 1%. If obama cared about black people, he would have done something about it, instead of whining about it! Nothing will ever be OK without the jobs!


Knitter from Nebraska
so it is the President's fault that there are no jobs? Focus on those who outsourced so that they make MORE Millions. That is where the problem is. Under Obama the unemployment rate has gone way down and he has tried his very best to get the GOP to approve shovel ready jobs but they care not. They are doing their best to deter our President from having any success with anything. Remarkable that President Obama has gotten as much done as he has. You are pointing your finger at the wrong people.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> This was not even the first such report. They can be used as a memory test: LWs will remember them, often in great detail. RWs will completely forget what they said and insist on investigating all over again.


Poor Purl
reminds me of the lazy guy at the Office, always doing something which amounts to nothing but always looks busy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> For a moment of levity - check out the thread with the title "Ten reasons to invite dogs for Thanksgiving".


It was very cute. Cats are not good at large dinners. They will jump on the table and sniff everyone's plate and lick a few.

They do clean up the dishes well, and boy do they nap!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've a real stake in racism in America. Someday, my grandson will be considered a young, black man. I'm mad! I don't think obama is doing anything to reduce racism. In fact, I think he perpetuates it! He widens the divide! He uses racism as an excuse! He trots out in front of the media when Trayvon Martin and Michael Brown are killed. Where is he when the thousands of other kids are killed? If the president cared about black people, he would do what is necessary to put them to work! That's the only thing that will end poverty! It's the only thing that will make these people proud, productive people. Give these people something to live for! Something that matters! Quit telling them, they are victims! Stop holding them back! Move forward! Focus on the future instead of the past. Fix the problems instead of whining about them. If black teens saw their parents work hard and prosper, they would do the same. If these teens were working at McDonalds or Burger King, they wouldn't be hanging out on the street with gangs. Our country is broken! Instead of trying to fix it, our government is catering to the 1%. If obama cared about black people, he would have done something about it, instead of whining about it! Nothing will ever be OK without the jobs!


Knitter from Nebraska
there is another problem in this country, everyone is being pushed into going to College. After all there is much money in it for these Institutions even when their Students do poorly. What a great business to be in. We need to focus on the strength of our young and help them to develop what natural skills they have and what their interests are. We need to train lots of people to become good Electricians, Plumbers, Carpenters etc. etc. etc. Those are jobs we can never do without. We do not need more computer Nerds, or Lawyers, do we.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And if Brown had not committed the robbery, and had not walked down the middle of the street, and had not slammed the police car's door, and had not tried to get the officer's gun and had got down on the ground as was ordered. He would be alive.


And if you had wheels, you'd be a bicycle. Try to stick with reality. His death was not inevitable, no matter how many of your ifs he transgressed.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I understand your temper Patty. I share it too. I give so much credit to his parents too. I can't help believing that justice will be served eventually.
> 
> How can a mother live with the fear that their child may be murdered by the police when they leave the house?


Like I said a few pages back, justice and the law are two different things. *What mattered here was whether Officer Wilson broke the law, and that's all that was ever going to be considered. Justice wasn't served here and it never will be. When what's legal and what's just happen to coincide keep in mind that it's a only an accident.*

What bothers me the most is how quick police officers are to use deadly force nowadays. I think they're scared s**tless most of the time they're on duty because far more violence is directed at them these days. That doesn't excuse them for being frightened and trigger-happy. I think it means they have to try a lot harder in a very few seconds to assess what they're up against and respond correctly.

I hope I don't sound as heartless as joey. Despite the grand jury's decision, I feel very saddened by the whole mess.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Many minorities have made it because of the initial help. Sounds like you are categorizing all blacks into one bleak pigeon hole. There is certainly a black middle class.


I certainly don't want to pigeon hole anyone. I know first hand that there are many blacks in the middle class. But I think that many more have been caught in the welfare trap. Generation after generation follow. It's a minority who refuse to accept the status quo. Often, those who succeed are ridiculed as traitors or sell outs. We have to change attitudes not only in white people but black people as well. Neither one side nor the other, can fix what's wrong. We all have to change. But we can't do anything without jobs! When there aren't enough jobs, the jobs go to the white people, due to existing stereotypes. We can't break the cycle unless black people have a chance to prove themselves, and TO themselves that they are truly equal. They deserve the same opportunities. They deserve to be seen as individuals. We have to stop the us vs them mentality. In my lifetime, I've never seen anyone in government who hasn't perpetuated the us vs them mentality. The best thing for all people is to be responsible and independent. Put the people to work! Give them true independence instead of just transferring their dependence.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


Well said, KFN. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree l00% - Lots of us have had a teenager who did stupid things, lots have gotten themselves into trouble, learned their lesson and became good citizens- He should have been charged with petty theft and dealt with that way. He should not have been shot l0 times because the policeman saw a big black man instead of a boy. A black young man (teenager) grows up afraid of the police in the US in many places. That might have had something to do with the young man's actions. He knew he would not be treated fairly- and he was right.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> None of us were witness to the events of that day. None of us sat on that grand jury. None of us knows, whether what we've heard is the truth or not. What we do know is that we don't want the police killing teenagers. As a people, we should insist that our police officers receive training appropriate to their positions. They are not soldiers fighting an enemy! They should not receive military training which causes them to see everyone as an enemy. They should receive training where they see these people as somebody's child. They should be trying to do what's best for the public, but also what's best for the individual involved. Michael Brown could have been approached in a different manner. He could have been approached as a teenager who stole some cigars. If he had been, everything may have ended differently. But officer Wilson couldn't see Michael as a teenager who stole some cigars because he'd been trained to see him as a dangerous enemy. It saddens me because officer Wilson could have reached out to a troubled youth and made a difference in his life. Instead, he came across as a hard ass and put Brown into a combative position. What a waste! How many lives have been ruined?


Again, well said. I've tied to write a decent post about the whole mess but words fail me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> how smart you are. If only the Police could think like that but give a person a Gun and they will make use of it freely.


IMO, it's not about the gun. Police have carried guns for years and years. It's about the training that police are getting. Officer Wilson did exactly what he was trained to do. I have no objection to police carrying guns or even defending themselves. What I do have a problem with is that police are being trained to use deadly force as a first line of defense.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Apprehend=Kill? In what system?


In joey's ever-so-Christian system.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I've heard this question raised by black parents often. It doesn't matter what economic class they're in, how much education they've had. When a black teenage boy goes out of his house, his parents worry, for good reason.


This reminds me of what the President said when Trevon Martin was shot.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Let us remember Michael Brown's size. My son is as big as he is. I know he can bench press over 400 pounds. He is an offensive lineman whose job it is to protect the quarterback. No one on the defense has ever gotten to his quarterback on his side of the line, honestly they are terrified of him and his ability to protect his quarterback. When his uniform and helmet are on he becomes a warrior and is totally focused on his job. When he comes home, showers and eats out the refrigerator he becomes the Pillsbury Doughboy. If you met him only at home or at school he is a gentle giant that says 'yes ma'am and yes sir'. He has been lectured by me over and over again that if he gets in trouble because of speeding he is to put his hands on the wheel, become serene and say only 'yes officer or no officer' . Because of his size he can appear menacing and not be at all. So you will hear conflicting reports about Michael Brown being a gentle giant. But if he had his warrior face on he would have been a terrifying force of humanity. Also a person of his size does not look his age, that is just a fact people will think he is much older.
> 
> I am sorry that he died in such a horrible way. But I am also sorry that he attacked an officer, struck him trying to get his gun, ran away when told to stop, and then turned around to charge at the officer.
> 
> And besides that, what is the justification for all the looting, burning of stores and cars? There is none. For me the group of protesters all over the country are nothing but thugs and felons that have purposefully destroyed people's lives.


You more than anyone should be able to empathize. More and more of our children and teens are plus sized. Should we view them as dangerous because they're large? I still say that had officer Wilson approached Michael differently, this may have turned out differently. It shouldn't be our teenagers who are expected to act in an adult manner. Police officers should receive training in deescalation. They should resort to lethal force only after everything e!we fails.

IMO, there is no justification for looting and burning. It is merely an expression of frustration and a feeling of victimization. They not only destroy the lives of others, but their own as well.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> How did Brown's blood get inside the police car?


Is it all possible that you could put aside what was legal or not in the shooting of Michael Brown and let your heart do some talking?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Unfortunately the Victim was of big stature. Reminds me of a kid in our Neighborhood. This little guy came to me on a regular basis just to talk to me. He was 4 years old and on his little bike all the time. I would take my Bike and ride around with him as often as he liked me to. One day he came crying terribly. He asked me why nobody in the Neighborhood liked him. Well, this little Tike for example liked to put sticks into People's Air Conditioner and they got angry with him thinking that he should know better. My little Buddy was only 4 years old but had the body of a 9 year old and everyone thought he should know better. So I took it upon myself to put a letter in every mailbox explaining my Friend's dilemma. That changed everything, people started talking to him nicely and explained why he should not put sticks into the A/C and he stopped doing dumb things. He became the Mascot of the Neighborhood.
> Diplomacy works, anger does not. By the way, he grew up big, did well and I am still in touch with him.


Huck, what an awesome story! Thank you so much for what you did and for sharing it with us. I think that people have a tendency to treat children like little adults. They expect them to have reasoning skills that just aren't there. Thank you for your love and compassion! You made a difference in a child's life!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> As to what you have said about police forces. There are good and bad people in every job.
> You can not take it to mean every police officer is bad.
> There are more good than what we see on tv or in the news.
> How many police have been killed in the line of duty?
> ...


We're lucky that most police officers do a good job. Despite the fact that they can do something as horrible as the shooting of Michael Brown doesn't mean we can lump them all together.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> As to what you have said about police forces. There are good and bad people in every job.
> You can not take it to mean every police officer is bad.
> There are more good than what we see on tv or in the news.
> How many police have been killed in the line of duty?
> ...


I never said that all officers are bad or even that Wilson was bad. Please don't put words in my mouth! I've consistently been critical of the militarized training that our police officers are receiving. I believe that all police officers should try to defuse situations before resorting to deadly force!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer.


Or maybe the officers response to those actions, acted as a trigger.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> How do they learn that when they are treated like 2nd class citizens. It is the same with our First nations people. Each generation learns from their parents - each parent has had experiences that color their view. A completely different approach must be made but who knows what the answer is. I do think however that there is a basic dislike of the blacks in America in many places but it is never acknowledged.
> 
> When one does well, are they congratulated or are they attacked? Some do pull themselves up by their bootstraps and should he respected for it. It is hard if you are living in poverty in ghettos because that is where others like you are living and you feel safer. It is a problem and the answers are not simple. jmo


The only way to break the cycle is to change what we're doing. Give people the opportunity to succeed. If jobs were plentiful, all people would be needed and valued. Success would only be limited by oneself. Feeling guilty or feeling sorry for someone doesn't help them. Give them the opportunity to help themselves. Self worth comes from within!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> ever noticed a teenager all of a sudden playing poorly on a Ball Team? The body is growing too fast and coordination limps behind. The Brain, needs a long, long time to develop and often never gets it right. Teenagers are incomplete people. Let's look back and think of the dumb things we did at that age.


As a mother of three boys, I used to say that boys lose their brains at puberty. They get them back around 25 years of age. Well, mine did anyway.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> so it is the President's fault that there are no jobs? Focus on those who outsourced so that they make MORE Millions. That is where the problem is. Under Obama the unemployment rate has gone way down and he has tried his very best to get the GOP to approve shovel ready jobs but they care not. They are doing their best to deter our President from having any success with anything. Remarkable that President Obama has gotten as much done as he has. You are pointing your finger at the wrong people.


If the president can change immigration and healthcare laws with his pen and phone, then I think he could do some changing on the trade policies and laws. IMO, he's got his priorities in the wrong place! He's putting the cart before the horse! We don't have enough jobs to support our own people, let alone millions of immigrants and we don't have enough working taxpayers to pay for healthcare for everyone. Perhaps, if he'd made bringing the jobs back a priority, we could afford to do the things he wants to do. He's a "feel good" president. He's doing things to make a splash but they're unsustainable without the jobs!

Don't believe them when they say unemployment is down. It's a lie! They've just changed the way they calculate it, to deceive the masses.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> there is another problem in this country, everyone is being pushed into going to College. After all there is much money in it for these Institutions even when their Students do poorly. What a great business to be in. We need to focus on the strength of our young and help them to develop what natural skills they have and what their interests are. We need to train lots of people to become good Electricians, Plumbers, Carpenters etc. etc. etc. Those are jobs we can never do without. We do not need more computer Nerds, or Lawyers, do we.


I absolutely agree with you, on this! For years they've been saying "you've got to go yo college if you want to succeed". People do well and are happy in careers like plumbing and electrical. What would we do without them? My youngest son always hated school. Absolutely hated it! He was very smart, had an IQ of 134, but didn't want to go to college. He grew up on computers and chose to work in that field. He took classes to get the certifications that he needed and is only a couple of years into his career and is making well over $80 grand a year. To heck with college! He is debt free and happy! There are no jobs for the college grads.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Like I said a few pages back, justice and the law are two different things. *What mattered here was whether Officer Wilson broke the law, and that's all that was ever going to be considered. Justice wasn't served here and it never will be. When what's legal and what's just happen to coincide keep in mind that it's a only an accident.*
> 
> What bothers me the most is how quick police officers are to use deadly force nowadays. I think they're scared s**tless most of the time they're on duty because far more violence is directed at them these days. That doesn't excuse them for being frightened and trigger-happy. I think it means they have to try a lot harder in a very few seconds to assess what they're up against and respond correctly.
> 
> I hope I don't sound as heartless as joey. Despite the grand jury's decision, I feel very saddened by the whole mess.


 :thumbup: I agree!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Again, well said. I've tied to write a decent post about the whole mess but words fail me.


And I've got too many words to write. I'm trying to limit myself and get to work on cleaning my kitchen. But I just can't back away. I will. I must.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

There! I've caught up! (I think I'm obsessive compulsive.)

I'm going to clean now.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I and my friends up here are watching different American news casts -and are very uneasy at the way it is being handled. Why announce it in the dark when they have known about it all day- Daylight means less chance of problems. Also the family has not been shown the courtesy of being told the verdict ahead of time. Also extra police are moving in and it sure sounds as if they expect, or even want a bad outcome there. I have talked to other people from here watching and they feel the same except for a very right wing friend of mine who thinks the police officer is innocent and should not even be charged for shooting an unarmed young person. Makes me wonder. I would love to know your opinions on this. Am I incorrect in what I think is going to happen? I know Solo and others believe he should be released. I can't understand how they can justify shooting a young person even if he was guilty of stealing something small from a store. Couldn't he have used a taser? It boggles my mind. Am I crazy here??
> 
> Our news up here says that the Grand Jury is not like other Grand juries. The question I am hearing on CBC is why didn't the policeman be at least charged with homicide or murder and homicide and let an ordinary trial be held. They question what would have happened if the boy had killed the policeman? - they feel he would have been charged with murder the first night. I question why it is different for Policeman than a civilian who was unarmed. Also the fact that he was black, in a southern town. This was suggested on a two person panel that I just watched. I am not in any way saying that all Canadians agree with the person being interviewed. I personally agree with him though.
> 
> I would love to hear your thoughts. I know the feelings of some of those on D and P from their posts here. I do wonder if all of those who don't post feel the same way.


Why are you bringing me into your statement? Can you not say what you mean without bashing someone you dislike? You don't know what I think about the police officer and his actions that day. Your actions just prove what I said about you is true. You must be a total joy to be around at a social function where who knows what negative statement will come out of your mouth.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You more than anyone should be able to empathize. More and more of our children and teens are plus sized. Should we view them as dangerous because they're large? I still say that had officer Wilson approached Michael differently, this may have turned out differently. It shouldn't be our teenagers who are expected to act in an adult manner. Police officers should receive training in deescalation. They should resort to lethal force only after everything e!we fails.
> 
> IMO, there is no justification for looting and burning. It is merely an expression of frustration and a feeling of victimization. They not only destroy the lives of others, but their own as well.


The officer approached him because he fit the description of a robber, and for no other reason. He did not randomly pick Michael Brown for harassment after assisting a mother whose child had a medical emergency. So in the matter of seconds Michael was told to stop, Michael attacked the officer in his car to get his gun, Michael ran away, and Michael turned around to charge back at the officer. The officer was hurt and dazed from the assault and saw Michael coming back at him to hurt him again. There is no way that race was an issue in this situation because it happened too fast and escalated into a threatening situation so quickly, in my opinion.

Where is the justice for the store owners that lost everything? Around 25 stores were looted and burned to the ground and lives ruined forever. So because there was no indictment, more people's lives are in shambles. Shame on all those charlatans that say they are for Civil Rights when they promote violence and destruction of property.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> The officer approached him because he fit the description of a robber, and for no other reason. He did not randomly pick Michael Brown for harassment after assisting a mother whose child had a medical emergency. So in the matter of seconds Michael was told to stop, Michael attacked the officer in his car to get his gun, Michael ran away, and Michael turned around to charge back at the officer. The officer was hurt and dazed from the assault and saw Michael coming back at him to hurt him again. There is no way that race was an issue in this situation because it happened too fast and escalated into a threatening situation so quickly, in my opinion.
> 
> Where is the justice for the store owners that lost everything? Around 25 stores were looted and burned to the ground and lives ruined forever. So because there was no indictment, more people's lives are in shambles. Shame on all those charlatans that say they are for Civil Rights when they promote violence and destruction of property.


And shame on the COWS who feel that murder is okay if it's a black kid. And shame on the COW who thinks that the stores are more important than a human being's life. Stores can be rebuilt with the insurance money they will receive. A life taken cannot be returned.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why are you bringing me into your statement? Can you not say what you mean without bashing someone you dislike? You don't know what I think about the police officer and his actions that day. Your actions just prove what I said about you is true. You must be a total joy to be around at a social function where who knows what negative statement will come out of your mouth.


Because she is an AOLW that has no knowledge of the role of a Grand Jury in the US. It is easier to get an indictment from a Grand Jury than to get a guilty conviction in a trial. But that does not prevent her from making ignorant comments based on CBS reports. Good grief. Maybe she should take the online classes from the Heritage Foundation on the US Constitution so she can speak with knowledge not stupid anger


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Because she is an AOLW that has no knowledge of the role of a Grand Jury in the US. It is easier to get an indictment from a Grand Jury than to get a guilty conviction in a trial. But that does not prevent her from making ignorant comments based on CBS reports. Good grief. Maybe she should take the online classes from the Heritage Foundation on the US Constitution so she can speak with knowledge not stupid anger


The Heritage Foundation?? :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
It has created many, many stupid people. It was designed that way.
I'm sure you are an upstanding member. She was watching CNN.
You COWs are always wrong.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it all possible that you could put aside what was legal or not in the shooting of Michael Brown and let your heart do some talking?


You probably don't want her heart to talk. Trouble with fundamentalists - they have been impaired by being taught that eternal hell is the just punishment for thinking bad thoughts the same as it is just punishment for killing another human being - no sense of proportionality. And to be judgmental of the "other." No empathy in that heart.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> You probably don't want her heart to talk. Trouble with fundamentalists - they have been impaired by being taught that eternal hell is the just punishment for thinking bad thoughts the same as it is just punishment for killing another human being - no sense of proportionality. And to be judgmental of the "other." No empathy in that heart.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> The officer approached him because he fit the description of a robber, and for no other reason. .


NOT TRUE. The Ferguson Police Chief cleared that up early on. "The initial contact between Darren Wilson and Mike Brown was not related to the alleged theft of cigars," Jackson said, indicating Wilson did not know Brown was a suspect in the robbery.

Brown was confronted for walking in the street. Period.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why are you bringing me into your statement? Can you not say what you mean without bashing someone you dislike? You don't know what I think about the police officer and his actions that day. Your actions just prove what I said about you is true. You must be a total joy to be around at a social function where who knows what negative statement will come out of your mouth.


If her mouth is moving, it's negative. Wait for it......Obama's fault.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Hardly any surprise here. It was a farce. Ferguson has been buying guns at a tremendous rate. The police are totally materialized and prepared well beforehand for this "verdict". . It is war on black young people as PP has listed. I am concerned that the violence will spread. People will not take this sitting down.


It's sad that you think so little of the 12 men and women that have spent hours and hours going over tapes, interviews and other evidence to arrive at their decision. I suppose we should just let the media and the Al Sharpton's of the world decide the outcome of all high profile cases. That should make your group happy. Why bother with the evidence as that is what led to the decision. The evidence backed up Wilson, NOT Brown.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Because she is an AOLW that has no knowledge of the role of a Grand Jury in the US. It is easier to get an indictment from a Grand Jury than to get a guilty conviction in a trial. But that does not prevent her from making ignorant comments based on CBS reports. Good grief. Maybe she should take the online classes from the Heritage Foundation on the US Constitution so she can speak with knowledge not stupid anger


Easy to get an indictment from a grand jury - except when the prosecutor does not want one. That guy "tried" the case by grand jury, definitely NOT the normal conduct of a prosecutor or the justice system. Wilson's account was not confronted or challenged in any way; no other possible explanations of the forensic evidence was presented as it WOULD have been at a real trial. The whole thing was a staged job intended to give the appearance of justice without jeopardizing the officer.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It seems that no matter how outrageous the incident, they almost never get prosecuted for anything. IMO, it keeps getting worse. The
> police seem to see us as the enemy. Or I should say, they're being trained to see us as the enemy.


Perhaps because the people have been brainwashed into seeing the police as the enemy. It goes both ways.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer.


Oh, dear.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> The officer approached him because he fit the description of a robber, and for no other reason. He did not randomly pick Michael Brown for harassment after assisting a mother whose child had a medical emergency. So in the matter of seconds Michael was told to stop, Michael attacked the officer in his car to get his gun, Michael ran away, and Michael turned around to charge back at the officer. The officer was hurt and dazed from the assault and saw Michael coming back at him to hurt him again. There is no way that race was an issue in this situation because it happened too fast and escalated into a threatening situation so quickly, in my opinion.
> 
> Where is the justice for the store owners that lost everything? Around 25 stores were looted and burned to the ground and lives ruined forever. So because there was no indictment, more people's lives are in shambles. Shame on all those charlatans that say they are for Civil Rights when they promote violence and destruction of property.


NOBODY condones violence and destruction of property!
I think there are other options for the police when someone comes toward a police officer and is 107 feet away.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There! I've caught up! (I think I'm obsessive compulsive.)
> 
> I'm going to clean now.


I wish you were closer. You could work off all your energy and compulsion for cleanliness at my house.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Perhaps because the people have been brainwashed into seeing the police as the enemy. It goes both ways.


To a preponderance of black men, the police may very well be the enemy.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can you prove that is what happened? Were you an eye witness at the scene?


It has been proven by the evidence. The evidence supported Wilson's statement, not "witnesses" accounts.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> As to what you have said about police forces. There are good and bad people in every job.
> You can not take it to mean every police officer is bad.
> There are more good than what we see on tv or in the news.
> How many police have been killed in the line of duty?
> ...


Yarnie - you will like me for a couple of hours because I agree with this post. Being a police person is a tough job. And if they are not the smartest, it is because it is a deadly job. The smart ones stay safe on Wall Street. In my neighborhood, we have private guards instead of police and the neighborhood recently got up in arms against this public security and ousted the chief because a black teen was roughed up after many encounters with them. There was a town hall meeting that I walked out of when a mother was complaining that her kid was arrested 20 times! I am a representative on the Residents' Assoc. and I went to the bathroom when vote time came around whether to fight the security dept. Brown was no angel. My guess is that by looking at the video of the robbery he would have ended badly one way or another. But I also am no fan of Wilson who should have had a greater repertoire of how to handle potentially violent situations without killing. I blame the lack of proper training for this entire unpleasant situation. And unfortunately, poor and angry people take their frustrations out on their own neighborhood when they should be demonstrating meaningfully against those in power.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> ever noticed a teenager all of a sudden playing poorly on a Ball Team? The body is growing too fast and coordination limps behind. The Brain, needs a long, long time to develop and often never gets it right. Teenagers are incomplete people. Let's look back and think of the dumb things we did at that age.


I look back at the dumb things I am doing now.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It has been proven by the evidence. The evidence supported Wilson's statement, not "witnesses" accounts.


Nothing has been proven, only judged.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> He was the PROSECUTER. Actually you have judged Wilson guilty because you have refused to listen to the evidence. How did the officer know he had no firearm?


They all seem to want Wilson to be guilty. Evidence is of no importance, details are of no importance, lying witnesses are of no importance. The only thing important is that Wilson be convicted.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> IMHO this young man would not be dead if he were white. The injustice starts there.


If he behaved the same way that Michael Brown did, chances are good that he would have been.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> He had his hands in the air and was surrendering when the officer shot him 10 times.


That is just not true. The evidence supports that as does witness testimony.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Easy to get an indictment from a grand jury - except when the prosecutor does not want one. That guy "tried" the case by grand jury, definitely NOT the normal conduct of a prosecutor or the justice system. Wilson's account was not confronted or challenged in any way; no other possible explanations of the forensic evidence was presented as it WOULD have been at a real trial. The whole thing was a staged job intended to give the appearance of justice without jeopardizing the officer.


If it were a staged Grand Jury then complaints about the jurors would have been voiced months before the shooting. If it were a staged Grand Jury, the one in place would not have been kept in place and a new one would have been seated, with the hope of stacking it. But they did not because they had been doing their job honestly and professionally. They heard hundreds of other cases and no one alleged maleficence. If they wanted to be cowards they would have issued a True Bill to avoid the violence they knew would happen if they did not. So the evidence must have been so compelling that they had no other options. You also assume that the jurors were so stupid that the did not ask questions or for clarifications on things they did not understand. So your argument is not valid.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> :thumbup: I agree!


me too. It is so sad! I don't know how it can be fixed at this stage. I Pray for those who are afraid to go out at night and I Pray that the police officers get training to support rather than feel they are threatened too. So sad all around.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Michael Brown was stupid. He did a stupid thing. He deserved to be punished for stealing the cigars. But he didn't deserve the death penalty! First of all, remember this, teenagers brains are not fully developed. The part of their brains that allow for self control and judgrment , hasn't fully developed until about the age of 22. So they're reckless, they make bad decisions. Add to that, the environment. Police used to be trained in hand to hand combat. They're supposed to be able to bring combative subjects under control. We can't have our police going around shooting stupid teenagers! We MUST insist that our police use non lethal force! It would have been better to have let him get away and catch him later, than to have killed him! His crime didn't justify the punishment!


I agree with what you are saying. At the same time, our police don't know who is armed and who isn't initially. It's too easy to obtain guns, as you know. The police have to presume that the subject is armed (in today's society) until known he/she isn't. They need to be able to protect themselves in any situation.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why are you bringing me into your statement? Can you not say what you mean without bashing someone you dislike? You don't know what I think about the police officer and his actions that day. Your actions just prove what I said about you is true. You must be a total joy to be around at a social function where who knows what negative statement will come out of your mouth.


--------
The only reason I mentioned you was that I read one of your posts this past while which clearly stated your opinion. That is why I posted it. If I was wrong about your opinion I am sorry. I didn't mean just you and I am sorry to just quote you as I am aware that most on D and P and on the right agree that it was perfectly okay to shoot a teenager with l0 bullets rather than a taser.-

I have removed my reply to your usual opinion of me. I couldn't care less and don't intend to carry it on.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> If it were a staged Grand Jury then complaints about the jurors would have been voiced months before the shooting. If it were a staged Grand Jury, the one in place would not have been kept in place and a new one would have been seated, with the hope of stacking it. But they did not because they had been doing their job honestly and professionally. They heard hundreds of other cases and no one alleged maleficence. If they wanted to be cowards they would have issued a True Bill to avoid the violence they knew would happen if they did not. So the evidence must have been so compelling that they had no other options. You also assume that the jurors were so stupid that the did not ask questions or for clarifications on things they did not understand. So your argument is not valid.


They asked Wilson ONE question. I'm not questioning the grand jury's integrity. I'm saying the prosecutor carefully arranged the testimony to first discredit all witnesses, then did not challenge Wilson's story - which he had plenty of time to concoct and rehearse. My argument is as valid as yours - neither of us was there. However, I have seen profiling up close - my son was a victim of it and was harassed constantly in a small town for no reason than because of his looks. (By the way - he's white.) There's a problem with justice for people of color in this country.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Just because the grand jury decided that officer Wilson followed the law, doesn't mean that we shouldn't want the laws to change! If officer Wilson had handled things differently, a young man would still be alive and many lives would not have been ruined!


What about Michael Brown's actions. His aggressiveness started in the store where he stole the cigars. He was strong arming the owner. Perhaps this was normal behavior for him. Perhaps he was on a "high" from that intimidation and when confronted by Wilson, just kept on in the same way. The situation certainly escalated quickly. I'm sure Brown never expected his actions would result in his death. All of the blame for what happened should not lie solely with Wilson. Brown was not an innocent party in the scenario.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> What was the conclusion of the family-sponsored autopsy? I think the dr. was Baden of OJ Simpson infamy.


All 3 autopsy reports had the same findings.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Oh, dear.


yes, he was unarmed against an armed police officer who could have used a taser or called for help. Certainly a teenager, yes he was l8, should have been charged with theft, but that doesn't mean he should have been shot l0 times. Stealing a package of cigars and being mouthy to a store owner, and walking up the center of the road showed he was foolish and not very smart - it didn't warrant being shot l0 times. None of us really know what happened. We do know that he had no weapon and that the officer shot him. And that he died. We also know that the same thing happened with Trayvon Martin, and there was no justice there either.

We also know that the information was made known during the day yesterday- in daylight but was deliberately held off until it was dark. It is a fact that if it had been publicized in the daylight there is a good possibility it might not have caused the thugs to act the way they did. Why did they wait so long? Why was the policeman not charged with something and taken to a regular trial? (He likely would have been let off knowing what happened in the past though, but at least he would have had to face a jury -in a regular trial. This whole thing seems to be poorly mishandled from day one by the prosecutor.

I know that each of us has our own opinions. So it is something that will never be fixed in this case. It might be an idea though to change the laws so that Police officers don't deliberately kill black teenagers, if that is possible to do. Very difficult though as so many people feel he was justified (mostly white people) and so many people feel he was treated that way because he was a black man, no ,matter what size he was.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer[//].

Solo:You just proved that I was right about your opinion. I am sorry now that I edited my post. Apology just reversed. I was exactly right about your opinion.

Just to confirm your opinion. He was responsible for a Police officer shooting him ten times by walking on the road, having previously stolen a pkg. of cigars, possibly being smart mouthed to the store owner, being over 200 pounds and putting his hands up (this was confirmed in the report yesterday, although the Police officer was not found guilty because he might have misunderstood). Nothing was said about using another method - (taser - calling for backup) . Just so we know exactly what you do believe. You have never mentioned whether you believe the same thing would have happened to a white teenager who did the same thing. Really???


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I absolutely agree with you, on this! For years they've been saying "you've got to go yo college if you want to succeed". People do well and are happy in careers like plumbing and electrical. What would we do without them? My youngest son always hated school. Absolutely hated it! He was very smart, had an IQ of 134, but didn't want to go to college. He grew up on computers and chose to work in that field. He took classes to get the certifications that he needed and is only a couple of years into his career and is making well over $80 grand a year. To heck with college! He is debt free and happy! There are no jobs for the college grads.


There are many blue collar jobs out there that are unfilled because the young people don't have the skills. Good for your son.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The Heritage Foundation?? :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> It has created many, many stupid people. It was designed that way.
> I'm sure you are an upstanding member. She was watching CNN.
> You COWs are always wrong.


That same CNN whose reporter described Wilson as a murderer before the indictment and no one corrected her. Great reporting by CNN.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Nothing has been proven, only judged.


Judged by you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer[//].
> 
> Solo:You just proved that I was right about your opinion. I am sorry now that I edited my post. Apology just reversed. I was exactly right about your opinion.
> ...




You certainly are having trouble comprehending what was posted. I suggest you go back and reread posts. In your haste to be nasty, you have missed quite a bit of who said what.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Judged by you.


Wrong again, oh stalking solo!I wasn't on the unbalanced grand jury. I don't believe that all of this "secret grand jury" stuff was on the legit side and I believe that the cop should be tried for excessive force against an unarmed man.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That same CNN whose reporter described Wilson as a murderer before the indictment and no one corrected her. Great reporting by CNN.


Now you can see that there are many different people all over this country who think this whole grand jury thing was a pile of BS.
New protests in Baltimore and again in Atlanta, and they ain't all black.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I see you have NO knowledge of how the law or the justice system works.


You don't see anything except for what ever little whim flits by that tiny brain of yours. There is a difference between the 2 that you are too blind or stupid to see.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> yes, he was unarmed against an armed police officer who could have used a taser or called for help. Certainly a teenager, yes he was l8, should have been charged with theft, but that doesn't mean he should have been shot l0 times. Stealing a package of cigars and being mouthy to a store owner, and walking up the center of the road showed he was foolish and not very smart - it didn't warrant being shot l0 times. None of us really know what happened. We do know that he had no weapon and that the officer shot him. And that he died. We also know that the same thing happened with Trayvon Martin, and there was no justice there either.
> 
> We also know that the information was made known during the day yesterday- in daylight but was deliberately held off until it was dark. It is a fact that if it had been publicized in the daylight there is a good possibility it might not have caused the thugs to act the way they did. Why did they wait so long? Why was the policeman not charged with something and taken to a regular trial? (He likely would have been let off knowing what happened in the past though, but at least he would have had to face a jury -in a regular trial. This whole thing seems to be poorly mishandled from day one by the prosecutor.
> 
> I know that each of us has our own opinions. So it is something that will never be fixed in this case. It might be an idea though to change the laws so that Police officers don't deliberately kill black teenagers, if that is possible to do. Very difficult though as so many people feel he was justified (mostly white people) and so many people feel he was treated that way because he was a black man, no ,matter what size he was.


Officers do not carry Tasers, and that was explained to you months ago. Including their belt that holds their equipment, body armor and radio they are carrying an additional 22 pounds. So where and how will the Taser go?

Again, get it through your head in the US we do not just go to trial, the Grand Jury needs to hand down an indictment.

And where is there a law that allows officers to deliberately kill Black teenagers? And I do not care about what people's feelings are about this shooting. Feelings are not facts. And the fact is the Grand Jury did not believe there was enough evidence to send him to trial. The fact is that regardless of their feelings it does not justify the destruction of other people's property or way to earn a living because their workplace was burned to the ground and those felons and thugs were frustrated. I wonder how frustrated they would feel if there was a national day of The Blue Flu? Let's see how those anarchists behave and how 'the frustrated' feel when their homes, stores, banks, schools, doctor offices, grocery stores, auto repair shop, gas station...............are burnt to the ground because there were no police to protect them. Can't have it both ways.

And I repeat, where is there a law that allows police officers to kill Black teenagers?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, this racism has been fed and nurtured by the government! They've made the black masses dependent upon welfare and free housing. In the process, they've crammed them into ghettos and made them believe that this is all they can ever have. They've made them into victims. The black people in the ghettos know that they're being cheated, but they think they should just get more. They dont understand that what they need, is less. What they need is the pride of independence, of knowing they can take care of their own. They need jobs! And opportunities! The civil rights movement failed! If it had succeeded, these people wouldn't be on welfare! They'd be working and getting ahead! They'd have houses in the burbs. Their energies would be funneled in a positive direction. Everybody likes to pretend like we're doing a good thing by "helping" them! Instead, we've imprisoned them!


I'm glad you started with IMO, because much of this is nonsense. Have you ever known anyone who needed government support in order to feed her/his family? I have, white people as well as black. All it took was one serious illness, keeping them out of work until the job went to someone else. Or one pregnancy, after which Dad skipped out (I'm thinking here of a white grad student whose wife supported them until the baby was born, at which time Dad announced he had met someone else). Not one was proud of being on welfare, not one wanted it to last long. As soon as they were able to go back to work, they did, often for much less than they were originally paid.

It's not the Civil Rights Act that failed. It's the people who never wanted it who made certain it wouldn't work.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think we should be asking ourselves WHY Michael reacted the way he did. Why are people protesting and rioting? It's what they've been programmed to do.


Programmed? Are you serious? Unless you consider "programming" to mean being shown all your life that you can't be trusted (are you aware that in many stores, black customers are followed around by security to make sure they won't shoplift?); that you'll never make it even to the middle, let alone the top; that it will always be open season on you regardless of how you've lived your life because police in general do show bias in deciding whom to shoot.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> ever notice that you never see black individuals in some areas? Black people out of fear for the Police in those neighborhoods go way out of their way to avoid these communities. Speak with black people and find out how frequently they are getting stopped for nothing. They are being harassed on a regular basis. How would we take such mistreatment?


Of course I've noticed those things, Huck. We're shielded by what is now called white privilege, and it makes us very privileged indeed.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It seems that many of the people thought that they were owed something because of their ancestors. Then they acted that way.


Joey, grab your helmet. Your bus is outside.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! If Michael had had a gun, he'd have brought it out after the first shot. It was obvious at that point that he was unarmed. But it was just instinct for Wilson to keep shooting. It's how they're trained.


Was it instinct (something we're born with) or training - they're far from the same? Or was it his own way of seeing things that made him shoot, and shoot, and continue shooting, knowing nothing would happen to him if he did that?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> reminds me of the lazy guy at the Office, always doing something which amounts to nothing but always looks busy.


Oh, you knew him, too, Huck?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> there is another problem in this country, everyone is being pushed into going to College. After all there is much money in it for these Institutions even when their Students do poorly. What a great business to be in. We need to focus on the strength of our young and help them to develop what natural skills they have and what their interests are. We need to train lots of people to become good Electricians, Plumbers, Carpenters etc. etc. etc. Those are jobs we can never do without. We do not need more computer Nerds, or Lawyers, do we.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Like I said a few pages back, justice and the law are two different things. *What mattered here was whether Officer Wilson broke the law, and that's all that was ever going to be considered. Justice wasn't served here and it never will be. When what's legal and what's just happen to coincide keep in mind that it's a only an accident.*
> 
> What bothers me the most is how quick police officers are to use deadly force nowadays. I think they're scared s**tless most of the time they're on duty because far more violence is directed at them these days. That doesn't excuse them for being frightened and trigger-happy. I think it means they have to try a lot harder in a very few seconds to assess what they're up against and respond correctly.
> 
> I hope I don't sound as heartless as joey. Despite the grand jury's decision, I feel very saddened by the whole mess.


Thank you, Maid, this is the message I've been waiting to see, though I didn't know it. Of course police are scared: THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS OUT THERE. But there has to be a better way to deal with their fear than to shoot someone.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I certainly don't want to pigeon hole anyone. I know first hand that there are many blacks in the middle class. But I think that many more have been caught in the welfare trap. Generation after generation follow. It's a minority who refuse to accept the status quo. Often, those who succeed are ridiculed as traitors or sell outs. We have to change attitudes not only in white people but black people as well. Neither one side nor the other, can fix what's wrong. We all have to change. But we can't do anything without jobs! When there aren't enough jobs, the jobs go to the white people, due to existing stereotypes. We can't break the cycle unless black people have a chance to prove themselves, and TO themselves that they are truly equal. They deserve the same opportunities. They deserve to be seen as individuals. We have to stop the us vs them mentality. In my lifetime, I've never seen anyone in government who hasn't perpetuated the us vs them mentality. The best thing for all people is to be responsible and independent. Put the people to work! Give them true independence instead of just transferring their dependence.


Other than your "In my lifetime...," I agree. But this is not programming, is it?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The free Constitution classes are from Hillsdale College.


The Constitution is subject to interpretation...by scholars, judges,and even you. The interpretations are what make it "a living document". Some might say that it is imperative to constantly assess the Constitution with a modern day eye that represents the present and makes way for the future.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I wish you were closer. You could work off all your energy and compulsion for cleanliness at my house.


Uuuhhh... No thanks

I'm having 15 people for Thanksgiving. I've been going crazy trying to get my house cleaned. The week before last, my hubby was in the hospital. Then last week he had to travel for work. I went with him because he was starting to have side effects from his meds and I was worried about him. Then this weekend things got worse. We couldn't get an appointment to see the doctor so I had to take him to the emergency room. That took most of the day. So I had the weekend, last night and today, to get everything done.

Here in Nebraska, Catholic Health Initiatives bought all of the Catholic Health System. When their contract with Blue Cross came up for renewal, they insisted upon payment three times as much as the other health systems. Blue Cross would not agree so all of the people insured by Blue Cross that went to these doctors (a lot!) are now flooding into the other systems. The doctors and hospitals can't handle the numbers of people switching over. So, it not only affects those who got their healthcare through the Catholic system, but it affects the rest of us as well. Boooooo to Catholic Health Initiative!!!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> So, has the recent GOP review of Benghazi been discussed here? They found no discrepancy regarding how it was handled by the administration. Interesting to me.


When was the review conducted GW? Is this review supplementary the original? (Sorry if I sound ignorant).


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Yarnie - you will like me for a couple of hours because I agree with this post. Being a police person is a tough job. And if they are not the smartest, it is because it is a deadly job. The smart ones stay safe on Wall Street. In my neighborhood, we have private guards instead of police and the neighborhood recently got up in arms against this public security and ousted the chief because a black teen was roughed up after many encounters with them. There was a town hall meeting that I walked out of when a mother was complaining that her kid was arrested 20 times! I am a representative on the Residents' Assoc. and I went to the bathroom when vote time came around whether to fight the security dept. Brown was no angel. My guess is that by looking at the video of the robbery he would have ended badly one way or another. But I also am no fan of Wilson who should have had a greater repertoire of how to handle potentially violent situations without killing. I blame the lack of proper training for this entire unpleasant situation. And unfortunately, poor and angry people take their frustrations out on their own neighborhood when they should be demonstrating meaningfully against those in power.


You should pay attention to what you're agreeing with. She was accusing me of saying that all police were bad. I said no such thing! I said that we should be concerned with the militarization of our police forces! I didn't say that all police are bad and I didn't even say that Wilson is bad. I said, he reacted as he was trained to do.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, the buck stops at the federal government. They're the ones putting war machines on our streets and training our police officers. I'll risk being called a conspiracy theorist by saying that I believe that the federal government is preparing for martial law. All of the military equipment and the militarized training is in effect, to prepare for forceful control the population. People will obey because they will fear the police. Fear and military might are powerful tools of control.


Horrifically, the militarization of the police force may be in preparation for groups like IS exploding on the scene. Is that a conspiratorial concept?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> If he behaved the same way that Michael Brown did, chances are good that he would have been.


Depending upon the individual officer, you might be right. But I don't think the police should be using lethal force on teens except as a last resort. To me, it makes no difference what race they are. Police officers should be trained to defuse situations like this. It's outrageous that an 18 year old is dead, because he stole some cigars! Remember when the policeman was "our friend"? Not any more!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is NOT a living document. It is what it is (words on paper). To understand it you will need to go back to the federalist papers and the other documents that were written at the same time.
> 
> The Supreme Court has created laws that are contradictory to the Constitution.


It is not a document written in stone...this why conservatives are so stuck in the past...the past that objectifies women, discriminates against poor people and people of color. Join the present... or join the dinosaurs.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I agree with what you are saying. At the same time, our police don't know who is armed and who isn't initially. It's too easy to obtain guns, as you know. The police have to presume that the subject is armed (in today's society) until known he/she isn't. They need to be able to protect themselves in any situation.


How about...they wait until they SEE a gun, to pull the trigger? Innocent people are dying right along with the guilty ones! And guilty shoplifters don't deserve the death penalty! If Michael Brown had pulled a gun, we wouldn't be having this conversation!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> It is NOT a living document. It is what it is (words on paper). To understand it you will need to go back to the federalist papers and the other documents that were written at the same time.
> 
> The Supreme Court has created laws that are contradictory to the Constitution.


Thankfully the Supreme Court did, otherwise we would still have slaves and no women voting and no access to safe abortions. (could not help writing the last point.)


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Depending upon the individual officer, you might be right. But I don't think the police should be using lethal force on teens except as a last resort. To me, it makes no difference what race they are. Police officers should be trained to defuse situations like this. It's outrageous that an 18 year old is dead, because he stole some cigars! Remember when the policeman was "our friend"? Not any more!


Stealing cigars had nothing to do with it. Wilson DID NOT KNOW about that. This, from the chief of police.

You are right about police being taught lethal force as their first option. I can see why, though, when our country is bristling with guns. Real guns and toys that look like real guns. People who ambush the police out of hate. People who kill as many other people as they can because we don't know what to do about the mentally ill.

No one wants to indict an innocent policeman. The frustration comes, I think, out of the seemingly endless stories of questionable actions against so many - and the citizens are the ones who die, sometimes with bodies riddled with bullets. And people of color die most often.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What about Michael Brown's actions. His aggressiveness started in the store where he stole the cigars. He was strong arming the owner. Perhaps this was normal behavior for him. Perhaps he was on a "high" from that intimidation and when confronted by Wilson, just kept on in the same way. The situation certainly escalated quickly. I'm sure Brown never expected his actions would result in his death. All of the blame for what happened should not lie solely with Wilson. Brown was not an innocent party in the scenario.


If you can figure out a way to stop testosterone from raging through a young adolescent male, then we can have this conversation. I expect more from an adult that we're supposed to trust with our lives and the lives of our children!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Thankfully the Supreme Court did, otherwise we would still have slaves and no women voting and no access to safe abortions. (could not help writing the last point.)


Careful, SQM - you're up against a constitutional scholar who "knows" more than the Supreme Court. And her statements are fully substantiated by her own opinion.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Oh, look at that! We agree on something.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Careful, SQM - you're up against a constitutional scholar who "knows" more than the Supreme Court. And her statements are fully substantiated by her own opinion.


Or maybe Mrs. Somma laments all these changes.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> When was the review conducted GW? Is this review supplementary the original? (Sorry if I sound ignorant).


From the Huffington Post writer Chris Weigant, 11/24/14: 
For those of you who are counting, this is the seventh such report that has come to exactly the same conclusions. The House committee was led by a Republican, but the report itself was a bipartisan effort.

That we have had seven thorough investigations of this tragedy is apparently not enough for some folks, since an eighth investigation was recently launched by House Republicans. They refuse to accept the conclusions of these prior investigations -- all seven of them -- that there simply was no nefarious plot from the White House to "spin" the tragedy for political gain. In fact, the mere existence of seven investigations (with the eighth already underway) should indicate to the objective observer that only one party is "playing politics" with the Benghazi tragedy -- and it is not President Obama's party who is doing so.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just to confirm your opinion. He was responsible for a Police officer shooting him ten times by walking on the road, having previously stolen a pkg. of cigars, possibly being smart mouthed to the store owner, being over 200 pounds and putting his hands up (this was confirmed in the report yesterday, although the Police officer was not found guilty because he might have misunderstood). Nothing was said about using another method - (taser - calling for backup) . Just so we know exactly what you do believe. You have never mentioned whether you believe the same thing would have happened to a white teenager who did the same thing. Really???


You certainly are having trouble comprehending what was posted. I suggest you go back and reread posts. In your haste to be nasty, you have missed quite a bit of who said what.[/quote]

I can't get the entire reply in the same box. Sorry. Below is my comment.

Wow! You're describing a lot of teenage boys! Are we to teach our young men that they must be subservient to authority? Shall we teach them to bow as well? I thought we were a nation of equals. I will never tell my sons to be subservient to anyone!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Or maybe Mrs. Somma laments all these changes.


You may be onto something there. She has hinted she would support executing homosexuals - BUT ONLY IF the law called for it. Whose "law" is open for debate.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Wow! You're describing a lot of teenage boys! Are we to teach our young men that they must be subservient to authority? Shall we teach them to bow as well? I thought we were a nation of equals. I will never tell my sons to be subservient to anyone!


I would tell any black son of mine to respect the police and do what they say to the letter. Clearly, that would ultimately have saved Brown's life. That is the hard reality.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> A person heart has NO business in this type of case.
> 
> I am sorry Brown died, I feel bad for his family. But he has to be responsible for his own actions, which led to his death.


How can you say that DYING is taking responsibility for his own actions?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> It is not a document written in stone...this why conservatives are so stuck in the past...the past that objectifies women, discriminates against poor people and people of color. Join the present... or join the dinosaurs.


Joey would prefer to pretend nothing has changed economically, socially or morally since the constitution was written. As if we still ride in carriages, we still shoot blunderbusses, we still communicate with quill and parchment.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> I would tell any black son of mine to respect the police and do what they say to the letter. Clearly, that would ultimately have saved Brown's life. That is the hard reality.


That is EXACTLY what black parents have to tell their children.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Uuuhhh... No thanks
> 
> I'm having 15 people for Thanksgiving. I've been going crazy trying to get my house cleaned. The week before last, my hubby was in the hospital. Then last week he had to travel for work. I went with him because he was starting to have side effects from his meds and I was worried about him. Then this weekend things got worse. We couldn't get an appointment to see the doctor so I had to take him to the emergency room. That took most of the day. So I had the weekend, last night and today, to get everything done.
> 
> Here in Nebraska, Catholic Health Initiatives bought all of the Catholic Health System. When their contract with Blue Cross came up for renewal, they insisted upon payment three times as much as the other health systems. Blue Cross would not agree so all of the people insured by Blue Cross that went to these doctors (a lot!) are now flooding into the other systems. The doctors and hospitals can't handle the numbers of people switching over. So, it not only affects those who got their healthcare through the Catholic system, but it affects the rest of us as well. Boooooo to Catholic Health Initiative!!!


Not true. I saw that BC was going back into some of those hospitals where communities had no other options.

Welcome to obamacare


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.

A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries havent indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didnt look at grand jury indictments specifically.
****************
Does anyone else see a pattern? No wonder people of Ferguson are angry. They know the system does not work for them. Even if Wilson was justified, the statistics support the perception of unfairness for people of color.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not fair. I once met a very bright British officer. In 1968. But seriously, British criminals don't always carry guns, either. In this country, guns are practically forced on you. In some areas everyone has a gun, so maybe for the first shot the cop was being careful, but once it became clear that the boy had no gun, that should have ended the shooting.


Yes fair in my experience. The following is but one of many associations I've had with police during my career.

I was the director of two large aged care facilities back in the early 2000's. A lady with dementia approached another resident who resided in her former bed. She was confused. The resident in the bed leapt out and pushed her and in doing so, fell herself, breaking her arm and her leg. No staff saw the incident and the details did not emerge until a relative of another resident who saw what happened came forward.

Meanwhile, the incident report I had seen regarding this event was later embellished (unbeknown by me), by a staff member who had a long term gripe with the owners of the home, and she directly stated that the resident with dementia did in fact push the other one over which caused the injuries. She did not sign the report. A copy was given to the relatives who had made it very clear that the home was covering 'something' up and went straight to the police.

The family also went to the news papers immediately saying the organisation was 'covering up that fact that their mother had been assaulted.' The police were in my office the day the paper was published, demanding that I tell them exactly what happened. I had already commenced an internal investigation and told them what I had discovered thus far. They then accused me of not reporting the 'crime.' I said that a crime had yet to become apparent and that if a crime has been committed, I would most certainly report it. Well that wasn't good enough. What about the incident report? I explained the circumstances. "But the incident report states a crime has been commissioned." I stated that those details were a later embellishment which to me, was quite obvious. "It says in the incident report that the lady was insulted" they countered. Go figure.

I invited them to take over the investigation but they said they couldn't because 'no probable cause had been established' (WTF)? I said 'well let me continue with my investigation and I will report a 'crime' if indeed one had taken place.

Then, they changed their tack and started to kid around and asked me if I could make them a coffee! I told them I could not do that because I had an investigation to pursue. They both looked at each other, got up and walked out. I was furious.

The previous two police officers then appeared in my office to tell me that a police investigation had been initiated

While all of this was happening, the injured resident who had been taken to hospital for her injuries, developed complications and unfortunately, she died. Detectives then appear to tell me that this was now a homicide investigation. I tried to reason that it had been established that no staff or anyone else had witnessed the incident and that the incident report had been embellished by a yet to be identified staff member AFTER originally written by the nurse in charge on the shift in question. The detectives were not interested and told me to expect further visits and questioning of staff and residents, which commenced the day the relative who did see what happened came forward.

All the while, I'm now conducting two investigations; the original and the doctoring of the incident report AND managing the operations of the two homes.

The relative who saw what happened agreed to see me. I informed the detectives about this and invited them to attend the meeting but they were otherwise engaged. The meeting took place; the relative stated what I've already said, that the resident with dementia was approaching her former bed when the incumbent resident quickly got out of her bed, pushed the lady and fell herself. The relative signed a statement to that effect.

As I telephoned one of the detectives to tell him I had obtained a statement I was told he was already on the way. He arrived and sat down and I handed him the relatives statement. He read it, looked at me and said "oh f--k, great, what a bloody waste of time."

Nothing more to say.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then it might do him/them a world of good to join the military.


The military is part of the "the militarization of the police". These guys come out of the military often with no more than a high school education, lots of aggression against minorities and anyone or group who thinks or looks or acts differently than them and then are again given carte blanch with weapons.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm glad you started with IMO, because much of this is nonsense. Have you ever known anyone who needed government support in order to feed her/his family? I have, white people as well as black. All it took was one serious illness, keeping them out of work until the job went to someone else. Or one pregnancy, after which Dad skipped out (I'm thinking here of a white grad student whose wife supported them until the baby was born, at which time Dad announced he had met someone else). Not one was proud of being on welfare, not one wanted it to last long. As soon as they were able to go back to work, they did, often for much less than they were originally paid.
> 
> It's not the Civil Rights Act that failed. It's the people who never wanted it who made certain it wouldn't work.


You're speaking of those for whom the system was intended. I've no objection in allowing social services to do exactly what they were intended to do. I was referring to those whom use the system, generation after generation and know no other way to live. Just because there are people with legitimate needs doesn't mean that the system is there to support generation after generation, cradle to grave. It becomes a system of imprisonment for those people. Those people deserve more but have been trapped into thinking that that's all they can get. Those people need to feel independence. They need to get out of the hole that was dug for them before they were born. But as long as there are not enough jobs, they'll be stuck in that hole.

I agree with you that the Civil Rights Act failed because some people made certain it wouldn't work. But I think you and I would disagree on who made certain it wouldn't work. IMO, it was and is, people in power from BOTH parties! Pandering to get the black vote is not helping them. If you expect someone to fail and you're always "taking care of them", because you think they're unable to take care of themselves, they will always fail. All people deserve equal opportunities. They need a chance to build something of their own. They need a chance to succeed. Success is a great motivator.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The free Constitution classes are from Hillsdale College.


I took that class. It was invaluable.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Programmed? Are you serious? Unless you consider "programming" to mean being shown all your life that you can't be trusted (are you aware that in many stores, black customers are followed around by security to make sure they won't shoplift?); that you'll never make it even to the middle, let alone the top; that it will always be open season on you regardless of how you've lived your life because police in general do show bias in deciding whom to shoot.


That's exactly what I meant!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Was it instinct (something we're born with) or training - they're far from the same? Or was it his own way of seeing things that made him shoot, and shoot, and continue shooting, knowing nothing would happen to him if he did that?


I think that instinct can be developed through training. It was that which I was referring to. But I agree with you that he knew nothing would happen to him. Police officers are for the most part, immune to prosecution. It's almost as if they have a license to kill.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Who ever teaches a Constitution class is an interpreter of the document, anyone who reads it becomes an interpreter of the Constitution...as I said it is a living document open to interpretation. I have taken a class and as Joeysomma I have my opinion also about the do unmentioned...we just happen to disagree...again.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The military is part of the "the militarization of the police". These guys come out of the military often with no more than a high school education, lots of aggression against minorities and anyone or group who thinks or looks or acts differently than them and then are again given carte blanch with weapons.


If the streets of the US are dangerous, the battlefields of Afghanistan are worse - and we don't care for the veterans who are suffering from PTSD or lifetime disability from injuries when they come home. Even without injuries, what our servicemen see in the Mideast is crippling in and of itself.

YEAH - THE MILITARY is a great solution and subservience is desirable - especially if one is of color. (sarcasm)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Other than your "In my lifetime...," I agree. But this is not programming, is it?


You're right! It should be any lifetime but I was speaking for myself

I think it is a form of programming. When people hear a message over and over they start to adopt that message, no matter what it is. When someone hears over and over that they are better than others, they start to believe it. The same is true for someone who hears over and over that they are less than. We need to break the cycle.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


I grew up on military bases and I saw and experienced lots of aggression, racism, sexism, and general intolerance...oh yeah and lots of thoughtless following orders. Think Nazi, "I was only following orders".


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I certainly don't want to pigeon hole anyone. I know first hand that there are many blacks in the middle class. But I think that many more have been caught in the welfare trap. Generation after generation follow. It's a minority who refuse to accept the status quo. Often, those who succeed are ridiculed as traitors or sell outs. We have to change attitudes not only in white people but black people as well. Neither one side nor the other, can fix what's wrong. We all have to change. But we can't do anything without jobs! When there aren't enough jobs, the jobs go to the white people, due to existing stereotypes. We can't break the cycle unless black people have a chance to prove themselves, and TO themselves that they are truly equal. They deserve the same opportunities. They deserve to be seen as individuals. We have to stop the us vs them mentality. In my lifetime, I've never seen anyone in government who hasn't perpetuated the us vs them mentality. The best thing for all people is to be responsible and independent. Put the people to work! Give them true independence instead of just transferring their dependence.


Knitter from Nebraska
I totally agree with you.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I grew up on military bases and I saw and experienced lots of aggression, racism, sexism, and general intolerance...oh yeah and lots of thoughtless following orders. Think Nazi, "I was only following orders".


Funny how some promote the very thing they supposedly frown on - following. The military is necessary and their discipline proven. Not a hotbed of free thought or being skeptical of "everything you're told."


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


Yes, the military teaches people to be subservient. 
sub·ser·vi·ent 
adjective

prepared to obey others unquestioningly.
less important; subordinate.
subordinate secondary subsidiary peripheral ancillary auxiliary less important
serving as a means to an end.
submissive deferential compliant obedient dutiful biddable docile passive unassertive subdued downtrodden under someone's thumb

Yes, of course, that is what you wish for. Anyone who does not belong to your chosen fold must be made to be obedient, dutiful, docile, and under someone's thumb.

The military does not teach people to think for themselves but to act on command, to do their superior's bidding, immediately and without question.

Yes, we must at all times maintain the status quo, with people with whom you associate doing the commanding and all other lesser mortals being at their master's beck and call.

The military teaches people to kill anyone who does not look like them, think like them, act like them or believe what they believe.

Yes, send all the hotheads, juvenile delinquents into military service. Watch out then because you will not just have a rag, tag mob of teenagers who are running high on testosterone, you will have a bunch of people who have been trained in martial arts, combat and how to use weapons efficiently and effectively. They will then be ten times as dangerous.

Be very careful what you wish for, you may get it .


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Officers do not carry Tasers, and that was explained to you months ago. Including their belt that holds their equipment, body armor and radio they are carrying an additional 22 pounds. So where and how will the Taser go?
> 
> Again, get it through your head in the US we do not just go to trial, the Grand Jury needs to hand down an indictment.
> 
> ...


If they don't carry tasers then maybe they should. It sounds from what you say that because they carry 22 pounds. Maybe if he had carried 24 pounds of equipment that young man would be alive and possibly your 'Anarchists would not have had any reason to act up and destroy property - which by the way I am in no way supporting. I think everyone who was involved last night and arrested should be charged. I also still don't think that there really can be any reason why so many black young men and teenagers are focused on and in some cases shot. I don't have the answers any more than you do -- I do however have the right to an opinio I have no recollection of being told that months ago' by anyone - if it was mentioned by you I likely ignored your statements as I usually do.

If you would stop talking down to people and acting as if you are the only one on these threads with absolute knowledge then maybe some of us would listen to you.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I grew up on military bases and I saw and experienced lots of aggression, racism, sexism, and general intolerance...oh yeah and lots of thoughtless following orders. Think Nazi, "I was only following orders".


What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.

I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If the president can change immigration and healthcare laws with his pen and phone, then I think he could do some changing on the trade policies and laws. IMO, he's got his priorities in the wrong place! He's putting the cart before the horse! We don't have enough jobs to support our own people, let alone millions of immigrants and we don't have enough working taxpayers to pay for healthcare for everyone. Perhaps, if he'd made bringing the jobs back a priority, we could afford to do the things he wants to do. He's a "feel good" president. He's doing things to make a splash but they're unsustainable without the jobs!
> 
> Don't believe them when they say unemployment is down. It's a lie! They've just changed the way they calculate it, to deceive the masses.


Knitter from Nebraska
the President's actions re. Immigration Regulations does not change the number of workers, all it changes is their status and hopefully a large number will start paying taxes because almost all of them are working now. I don't know your neighborhood but in mine the people hired for yard work and house keeping are all Immigrants and most with questionable status. They freely show you their working permits of questionable origin and those who employ them do not care because they get their work done rather cheap.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.
> 
> I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


lovethelake
your thinking is poisoned.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, the military teaches people to be subservient.
> sub·ser·vi·ent
> adjective
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> If they don't carry tasers then maybe they should. It sounds from what you say that because they carry 22 pounds. Maybe if he had carried 24 pounds of equipment that young man would be alive and possibly your 'Anarchists would not have had any reason to act up and destroy property - which by the way I am in no way supporting. I think everyone who was involved last night and arrested should be charged. I also still don't think that there really can be any reason why so many black young men and teenagers are focused on and in some cases shot. I don't have the answers any more than you do -- I do however have the right to an opinion.


Why don't you lug around 22 pounds in 100 degree heat for a week, then do it again with 24 pounds for another week. Maybe that two pounds would not be an issue. Get back to us on that, then maybe what you have to say will have 'more weight'

Where is the law that gives permission for officers to shoot Black teenagers? Guess there is none, so your entire conversation lacks any credibility since it is based on a lie


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.
> 
> I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


You now are implying that all those who are not Obama Haters are Nazis? I am not an Obama cultist and I am sick of being called one. I do know that he is the President of the United States and that his position demands respect or has in the past. Only you are right - everyone who dares to disagree with you is worth nothing - you are so blinded by your hate that you can't see anything but your hate.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why don't you lug around 22 pounds in 100 degree heat for a week, then do it again with 24 pounds for another week. Maybe that two pounds would not be an issue. Get back to us on that, then maybe what you have to say will have 'more weight'
> 
> Where is the law that gives permission for officers to shoot Black teenagers? Guess there is none, so your entire conversation lacks any credibility since it is based on a lie


That is my point - something is wrong if teenagers who are unarmed are being shot - also that Mothers are afraid for their sons. I am not going to carry this on with you as you are in a world separate for most of us - certainly me.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> If they don't carry tasers then maybe they should. It sounds from what you say that because they carry 22 pounds. Maybe if he had carried 24 pounds of equipment that young man would be alive and possibly your 'Anarchists would not have had any reason to act up and destroy property - which by the way I am in no way supporting. I think everyone who was involved last night and arrested should be charged. I also still don't think that there really can be any reason why so many black young men and teenagers are focused on and in some cases shot. I don't have the answers any more than you do -- I do however have the right to an opinio I have no recollection of being told that months ago' by anyone - if it was mentioned by you I likely ignored your statements as I usually do.
> 
> If you would stop talking down to people and acting as if you are the only one on these threads with absolute knowledge then maybe some of us would listen to you.


If police don't carry tasers, then why are so many people getting tased? Maybe they are not the answer, either. "In 2005, the American Civil Liberties Union stated that at least 148 people had died in the United States and Canada since 1999 after being shocked with Tasers by police officers, and Amnesty International stated that the number reached 500 in 2012."

Two years later, I wonder what the stats are?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:



> I would tell any black son of mine to respect the police and do what they say to the letter. Clearly, that would ultimately have saved Brown's life. That is the hard reality.


exactly! My point is that the majority (huge majority) is the word 'black boys' not white boys.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Programmed? Are you serious? Unless you consider "programming" to mean being shown all your life that you can't be trusted (are you aware that in many stores, black customers are followed around by security to make sure they won't shoplift?); that you'll never make it even to the middle, let alone the top; that it will always be open season on you regardless of how you've lived your life because police in general do show bias in deciding whom to shoot.


I posted the incorrect imoticon by mistake- my apologies-here is the one I meant. I agree with you l00%


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.
> 
> I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


What do you call the extensive incidence of rape of fellow soldiers? Think rape is part of the military code of ethics? There are also incidences of "individual" dealing with the enemy and disrespect of locals and their culture in countries where we have military bases.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> If police don't carry tasers, then why are so many people getting tased? Maybe they are not the answer, either. "In 2005, the American Civil Liberties Union stated that at least 148 people had died in the United States and Canada since 1999 after being shocked with Tasers by police officers, and Amnesty International stated that the number reached 500 in 2012."
> 
> Two years later, I wonder what the stats are?


I know they are used up here and it still seems to me a better choice than a gun. I am not aware of the number of people who are seriously injured or killed. I do know that some police departments up here insist that their members are tasered so that they are made aware how hurtful it is. I also think that there is less chance of the person dying from being tasered than being shot with a gun. 
However, I have no figures on that.

I also think that if the mindset was different possibly on both sides, neither might have been necessary.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


I think the problem is that many people still think of Blacks as subservient and if they don't act that way that they should.

That mindset change might go a long way towards solving the problems??


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're right! It should be any lifetime but I was speaking for myself
> 
> I think it is a form of programming. When people hear a message over and over they start to adopt that message, no matter what it is. When someone hears over and over that they are better than others, they start to believe it. The same is true for someone who hears over and over that they are less than. We need to break the cycle.


I agree with you NEB - I believe it has been happening since blacks were slaves - some manage somehow to overcome the stigma and that belief that for some reason they are less than those of another skin color but so many carry on the feeling through generations that it is the way it is and it can't be changed. To me that is the problem? It causes resentment on both sides.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It is NOT a living document. It is what it is (words on paper). To understand it you will need to go back to the federalist papers and the other documents that were written at the same time.
> 
> The Supreme Court has created laws that are contradictory to the Constitution.


 :thumbup: I agree!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> It is not a document written in stone...this why conservatives are so stuck in the past...the past that objectifies women, discriminates against poor people and people of color. Join the present... or join the dinosaurs.


The Constitution was written with a way for it to be amended. It was not written to be "interpreted" with the times. If the people don't like what it says, they demand an amendment. That is how slavery was ended and how woman got the right to vote.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thankfully the Supreme Court did, otherwise we would still have slaves and no women voting and no access to safe abortions. (could not help writing the last point.)


The supreme court has no right to make laws. Freeing the slaves and giving women the right to vote, were done through the amendment process. And the Constitution does NOT grant women the right to kill their babies! (Could not help writing the last point.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes fair in my experience. The following is but one of many associations I've had with police during my career.
> 
> I was the director of two large aged care facilities back in the early 2000's. A lady with dementia approached another resident who resided in her former bed. She was confused. The resident in the bed leapt out and pushed her and in doing so, fell herself, breaking her arm and her leg. No staff saw the incident and the details did not emerge until a relative of another resident who saw what happened came forward.
> 
> ...


That's quite a story, and you may have convinced me, at least about Aussie police. How quick they were to turn a minor incident into a major one, even into homicide, and what a bloody waste of your time that was.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Stealing cigars had nothing to do with it. Wilson DID NOT KNOW about that. This, from the chief of police.
> 
> You are right about police being taught lethal force as their first option. I can see why, though, when our country is bristling with guns. Real guns and toys that look like real guns. People who ambush the police out of hate. People who kill as many other people as they can because we don't know what to do about the mentally ill.
> 
> No one wants to indict an innocent policeman. The frustration comes, I think, out of the seemingly endless stories of questionable actions against so many - and the citizens are the ones who die, sometimes with bodies riddled with bullets. And people of color die most often.


I've heard both stories. Wilson knew Brown had stolen the cigars, Wilson didn't know. I don't know who's telling the truth or who's mistaken. I don't care. IMO, officer Wilson could have dealt with the situation in a way that would have defused the situation. A kid didn't need to die.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're speaking of those for whom the system was intended. I've no objection in allowing social services to do exactly what they were intended to do. I was referring to those whom use the system, generation after generation and know no other way to live. Just because there are people with legitimate needs doesn't mean that the system is there to support generation after generation, cradle to grave. It becomes a system of imprisonment for those people. Those people deserve more but have been trapped into thinking that that's all they can get. Those people need to feel independence. They need to get out of the hole that was dug for them before they were born. But as long as there are not enough jobs, they'll be stuck in that hole.
> 
> I agree with you that the Civil Rights Act failed because some people made certain it wouldn't work. But I think you and I would disagree on who made certain it wouldn't work. IMO, it was and is, people in power from BOTH parties! Pandering to get the black vote is not helping them. If you expect someone to fail and you're always "taking care of them", because you think they're unable to take care of themselves, they will always fail. All people deserve equal opportunities. They need a chance to build something of their own. They need a chance to succeed. Success is a great motivator.


How many of "those people" have you known? The ones stuck in the system because they're imprisoned in it? What you say about them may sound logical to you, but I don't believe it's true.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I would tell any black son of mine to respect the police and do what they say to the letter. Clearly, that would ultimately have saved Brown's life. That is the hard reality.


I HATE that you're right!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That's exactly what I meant!


That's not programming. That's learning to face reality. Not a pleasant reality, but not something purposely shoved on them to make them behave badly.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Then it might do him/them a world of good to join the military.


I wouldn't recommend that either!

Perhaps if we had a defensive military instead of an offensive one, I would! I wouldn't sacrifice my sons for oil, money and power!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I know they are used up here and it still seems to me a better choice than a gun. I am not aware of the number of people who are seriously injured or killed. I do know that some police departments up here insist that their members are tasered so that they are made aware how hurtful it is. I also think that there is less chance of the person dying from being tasered than being shot with a gun.
> However, I have no figures on that.
> 
> I also think that if the mindset was different possibly on both sides, neither might have been necessary.


I absolutely agree with your comments.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Not true. I saw that BC was going back into some of those hospitals where communities had no other options.
> 
> Welcome to obamacare


That's ONLY in the rural areas of Nebraska! But that doesn't help any of us in the large metropolitan areas. So don't tell me its not true! Thousands and thousands of people are flooding the other healthcare systems. My daughter in law's mother works as a surgical tech in one of the CHI hospitals. They used to have back to back surgeries. Now they have two a day! They're telling the employees they're going to lay off 1500 workers! It may or may not have anything to do with obamacare. But that doesn't explain why they want to charge three times as much as the other healthcare systems in the area. If you ask me, it's about greed!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that instinct can be developed through training. It was that which I was referring to. But I agree with you that he knew nothing would happen to him. Police officers are for the most part, immune to prosecution. It's almost as if they have a license to kill.


Strictly speaking, you're talking about conditioned reflex, not instinct. But at least the terms are defined, and, yes, license to kill is a good way to describe it.

You may not want to read The Nation, it being a zillion-year-old liberal weekly, but this week's has a piece called *Why Its Impossible to Indict a Cop * http://www.thenation.com/article/190937/why-its-impossible-indict-cop?

and another called * No Indictment for Darren Wilson, No Justice for Black Lives * http://www.thenation.com/blog/191393/no-indictment-darren-wilson-no-justice-black-lives?

In fact, there are a few articles in it this week that may interest you, including one about the Fed.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.
> 
> A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries havent indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didnt look at grand jury indictments specifically.
> ****************
> Does anyone else see a pattern? No wonder people of Ferguson are angry. They know the system does not work for them. Even if Wilson was justified, the statistics support the perception of unfairness for people of color.


Thanks for providing evidence for what I already thought. What do you think we can do to demand change? State lawmakers? Federal lawmakers?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Who ever teaches a Constitution class is an interpreter of the document, anyone who reads it becomes an interpreter of the Constitution...as I said it is a living document open to interpretation. I have taken a class and as Joeysomma I have my opinion also about the do unmentioned...we just happen to disagree...again.


And I disagree. The Constitution means what it says and nothing more. If the people want to change it, there is an amendment process. If it were open to interpretation, one would not need an amendment process.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


I didn't raise subservient sons! Neither do my sons have superiors. They have employers! I taught them to treat others with respect but I would never teach them that anyone is better than they are.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't raise subservient sons! Neither do my sons have superiors. They have employers! I taught them to treat others with respect but I would never teach them that anyone is better than they are.


Good for you. Slaves and servants are subservient, not free men and women. Joey was a teacher - think what it must have been like in her class.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> the President's actions re. Immigration Regulations does not change the number of workers, all it changes is their status and hopefully a large number will start paying taxes because almost all of them are working now. I don't know your neighborhood but in mine the people hired for yard work and house keeping are all Immigrants and most with questionable status. They freely show you their working permits of questionable origin and those who employ them do not care because they get their work done rather cheap.


Doesn't it bother you that millions of Americans are unemployed and collecting benefits that are paid for by the people who do work? Please don't respond with the tired old excuse that the illegal aliens are doing work that Americans won't do. Its simply not true! In this part of the country, meat packing plants provided good paying jobs to blue collar workers. These were highly sought after jobs, not because it was pleasant work, but because it paid well. When the meat packing plants started hiring illegal aliens, wages dropped drastically. Americans with a home and a family to support, could no longer live on the new lower wages. Construction work was always desirable as it paid well. Now, the illegal aliens have taken all of the roofing and drywall jobs because they're willing to work for less. These are only two legitimate examples. There are many. Liberals love to talk about the importance of a living wage, but they're willing to ignore the fact that many occupations used to pay a living wage until the illegal aliens were allowed to come in and do the work for less.

We can't have it both ways! We can't have a living wage for Americans when we allow foreigners to come in and take the jobs away from Americans. The only way the people will ever have a living wage is if there are more jobs than workers to fill them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> If police don't carry tasers, then why are so many people getting tased? Maybe they are not the answer, either. "In 2005, the American Civil Liberties Union stated that at least 148 people had died in the United States and Canada since 1999 after being shocked with Tasers by police officers, and Amnesty International stated that the number reached 500 in 2012."
> 
> Two years later, I wonder what the stats are?


I don't know who said that police don't carry tasers. Many police departments do carry tasers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you NEB - I believe it has been happening since blacks were slaves - some manage somehow to overcome the stigma and that belief that for some reason they are less than those of another skin color but so many carry on the feeling through generations that it is the way it is and it can't be changed. To me that is the problem? It causes resentment on both sides.


I think that those who have managed to overcome are those who were taught by their mothers that they were smart and as good as anybody else. Those mothers also made sure that their children learned, despite the odds against them. Those mothers never stopped parenting. Generally speaking, people who think they can't do well, won't do well. Most people live up to or down to the expectations of those around them. People's expectations need to change! We need to stop making excuses for people, but instead expect them to succeed and help them when necessary. We need to change attitudes!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> How many of "those people" have you known? The ones stuck in the system because they're imprisoned in it? What you say about them may sound logical to you, but I don't believe it's true.


I know you don't believe it. But I've worked with a lot of kids over the years who've come from situations like I described. I don't believe these people only exist in Omaha, Wichita and St Louis. It's an ugly truth that must be faced to be changed. We have generations of hopelessness where girls only aspire to have babies and boys aspire to join the right gang. A lot has been done in the schools to try and inspire these kids to do well. Most of it has been without success. What a child believes about themself starts in the home. The parents who live in hopelessness must be inspired so that they can inspire their children. People must experience success to seek it.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> That is my point - something is wrong if teenagers who are unarmed are being shot - also that Mothers are afraid for their sons. I am not going to carry this on with you as you are in a world separate for most of us - certainly me.


No what is wrong are teenagers that break the law, attack police officers and are generally disrespectful for those in authority. My guess is that because of his size he was used to bullying people around and thought it would work on the officer. Also I am not afraid for my sons being shot, because they are not in situations that would put them in danger. They also were raised that if in a situation that they got in trouble with the law (like speeding), they were to smile, nod and say yes officer or no officer.

You are right, you are not of this world. Where is there a law that allows officers to shoot and kill Black teenagers that you said needed to be changed? Or was that another example of a untruthful statement to get attention again?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Why don't you lug around 22 pounds in 100 degree heat for a week, then do it again with 24 pounds for another week. Maybe that two pounds would not be an issue. Get back to us on that, then maybe what you have to say will have 'more weight'
> 
> Where is the law that gives permission for officers to shoot Black teenagers? Guess there is none, so your entire conversation lacks any credibility since it is based on a lie


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't raise subservient sons! Neither do my sons have superiors. They have employers! I taught them to treat others with respect but I would never teach them that anyone is better than they are.[/quoat]
> 
> I took her comment to mean respectful to a boss or someone that has authority over them (police officers, teachers, judges, clergy, grandparents.......). She just is older than most of us, and sometimes phrases things in a different way. Shhhh..............she sounds like my parents.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Is LTL talking about her weight again, Shirley? I think you have a great figure and really don't want those extra pounds to lug around.
If she would lay off the cake and buttered noodles she wouldn't have to complain about her weight. 22 to 24 extra lbs in the heat? No wonder she is so cranky all of the time.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

dp


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Strictly speaking, you're talking about conditioned reflex, not instinct. But at least the terms are defined, and, yes, license to kill is a good way to describe it.
> 
> You may not want to read The Nation, it being a zillion-year-old liberal weekly, but this week's has a piece called *Why Its Impossible to Indict a Cop * http://www.thenation.com/article/190937/why-its-impossible-indict-cop?
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing the links. I found the first one very similar to what I've read on my "conspiracy" websites.  I think that all of us regardless of political affiliations are starting to recognize that the police are not held accountable for their killing of unarmed citizens. The laws are not "objectively reasonable", as stated but it would seem to me that they are subjective instead. There are no clearly stated laws governing police shooting of unarmed people. And I certainly agree that the laws are not on our side, but on the side of police. I like that the author suggests solutions but he doesn't seem to be very encouraged by them. Awareness is the key. People have to start realizing that something is wrong, in order for them to demand change.

I'll check out the article on the fed later. Thanks for the heads up.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Good for you. Slaves and servants are subservient, not free men and women. Joey was a teacher - think what it must have been like in her class.


I hate to think that anyone believes that we should be subservient. What has happened to our country?!?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're right! It should be any lifetime but I was speaking for myself
> 
> I think it is a form of programming. When people hear a message over and over they start to adopt that message, no matter what it is. When someone hears over and over that they are better than others, they start to believe it. The same is true for someone who hears over and over that they are less than. We need to break the cycle.


You're completely ignoring the will of the individual here.

People can hear things over and over but still rise to their potential in life. I grew up not knowing that university was available to me because I was never told it was. My parents had no idea. I came from a working class family and went to a technical school which told me I was most suited for a career as a typist/secretary. I pursued that with my first job. Working in the city with a variety of people around me opened my eyes to what was available to me. I found out by working with women who had gone to university and obtained a degree and they told me it was possible for me.

Ultimately this spurred me into action and I obtained not only a certificate of general nursing and midwifery qualification over 5 years, I also completed a Bachelor of Science, Nursing over 4 years. My career has spanned over 35 years, the last 8 of those in executive management positions successfully.

Not everyone born into less than 'acceptable standards' is a sheep. Many, many people who are break out and achieve their potential and to my mind, that happens more often than many would like to think.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Knitter from Nebraska said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't raise subservient sons! Neither do my sons have superiors. They have employers! I taught them to treat others with respect but I would never teach them that anyone is better than they are.[/quoat]
> ...


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's quite a story, and you may have convinced me, at least about Aussie police. How quick they were to turn a minor incident into a major one, even into homicide, and what a bloody waste of your time that was.


It caused me so much stress. I haven't been the same since. There is much more to the story; I only described my interactions with the police. I've had many, many other interactions which were handled abominably by the police. I reported three police officers over 8 years.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> You're completely ignoring the will of the individual here.
> 
> People can hear things over and over but still rise to their potential in life. I grew up not knowing that university was available to me because I was never told it was. My parents had no idea. I came from a working class family and went to a technical school which told me I was most suited for a career as a typist/secretary. I pursued that with my first job. Working in the city with a variety of people around me opened my eyes to what was available to me. I found out by working with women who had gone to university and obtained a degree and they told me it was possible for me.
> 
> ...


I don't disagree with you but do you think your hopes and dreams would have been the same had you been an aboriginal? Do you think your opportunities would have been the same? Your attitudes? There have been and always will be, people who have the will to succeed no matter the impediments to that success. But IMO, they are more the exception rather than the rule. You know as do we, that you are a strong willed woman. You stand and fight rather than run away crying. I admire you! Not everyone is as strong.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We need to change attitudes!


And how would you propose to do that?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

@KFN & Wombat

I admire the both of you. You speak from the heart and stand up for yourselves and what you believe in. We all have different lives and experiences and we can all learn from each other. Just sayin.....


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And I disagree. The Constitution means what it says and nothing more. If the people want to change it, there is an amendment process. If it were open to interpretation, one would not need an amendment process.


An amendment is to expand the meaning of the Constitution. Providing rights to women and to people of color is an interpretation, an elucidation of the original words granting rights. It is a "living" document that is applied to present day realities.....perhaps you are willing to go back to the original....I do not think so. The amendment process provides the means to expand and grow as our country's needs for social reform grows.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't disagree with you but do you think your hopes and dreams would have been the same had you been an aboriginal? Do you think your opportunities would have been the same? Your attitudes? There have been and always will be, people who have the will to succeed no matter the impediments to that success. But IMO, they are more the exception rather than the rule. You know as do we, that you are a strong willed woman. You stand and fight rather than run away crying. I admire you! Not everyone is as strong.


Many, many Aboriginal people have enjoyed incredibly successful and fulfilling lives. Many are Leaders who enjoy the same accolades as do politicians and captains of industry.

It's unhelpful to question what my motives would be if I were born Aboriginal. 1) I was not born Aboriginal; 2) you're introducing the proposition that the Aboriginal people have no hope and that they can be held as the standard bearers to prove a point which I think is totally unfair.

Using 'stereotypes' to make a point is wrong because it's subjective and unnecessary. It assumes you've walked in their shoes and you haven't. I'm a bit cross.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes fair in my experience. The following is but one of many associations I've had with police during my career.
> 
> I was the director of two large aged care facilities back in the early 2000's. A lady with dementia approached another resident who resided in her former bed. She was confused. The resident in the bed leapt out and pushed her and in doing so, fell herself, breaking her arm and her leg. No staff saw the incident and the details did not emerge until a relative of another resident who saw what happened came forward.
> 
> ...


Wow! You have had quite an interesting career. And I would be under great stress if a student could not remember the sound of short o.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> The military is part of the "the militarization of the police". These guys come out of the military often with no more than a high school education, lots of aggression against minorities and anyone or group who thinks or looks or acts differently than them and then are again given carte blanch with weapons.


is this the same for minority police people?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Wow! You have had quite an interesting career. And I would be under great stress if a student could not remember the sound of short o.


Are you undermining the experience I had?

Hang on, or are you being self depreciating?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> In joey's ever-so-Christian system.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I've come to the conclusion that joey has no heart.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Is it all possible that you could put aside what was legal or not in the shooting of Michael Brown and let your heart do some talking?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The only way to break the cycle is to change what we're doing. Give people the opportunity to succeed. If jobs were plentiful, all people would be needed and valued. Success would only be limited by oneself. Feeling guilty or feeling sorry for someone doesn't help them. Give them the opportunity to help themselves. Self worth comes from within!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> And shame on the COWS who feel that murder is okay if it's a black kid. And shame on the COW who thinks that the stores are more important than a human being's life. Stores can be rebuilt with the insurance money they will receive. A life taken cannot be returned.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> If her mouth is moving, it's negative. Wait for it......Obama's fault.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> If he behaved the same way that Michael Brown did, chances are good that he would have been.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: Unclear.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> And how would you propose to do that?


IMO, it begins with people experiencing success. The best way for some to have success is to have a job. If the government would take steps to bring back the jobs, people who think they can't be successful, could. And people who think that others cannot be successful, would find out that they can. If people aren't given a fair chance, they can't prove themselves. Bringing back the jobs would solve a lot of problems besides. Bringing back the jobs would also provide a living wage without having to pass a law.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Anyone on the right willing to talk about the availability of guns?



soloweygirl said:


> I agree with what you are saying. At the same time, our police don't know who is armed and who isn't initially. It's too easy to obtain guns, as you know. The police have to presume that the subject is armed (in today's society) until known he/she isn't. They need to be able to protect themselves in any situation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> @KFN & Wombat
> 
> I admire the both of you. You speak from the heart and stand up for yourselves and what you believe in. We all have different lives and experiences and we can all learn from each other. Just sayin.....


Thank you, Patty!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> What about Michael Brown's actions. His aggressiveness started in the store where he stole the cigars. He was strong arming the owner. Perhaps this was normal behavior for him. Perhaps he was on a "high" from that intimidation and when confronted by Wilson, just kept on in the same way. The situation certainly escalated quickly. I'm sure Brown never expected his actions would result in his death. All of the blame for what happened should not lie solely with Wilson. Brown was not an innocent party in the scenario.


Even a thug walking down the middle of the street smoking a stolen cigar does not deserve to be murdered for his actions. (Hypothetical situation. Agree or disagree?)


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SQM said:


> is this the same for minority police people?


It is in some instances. Look at some of the footage of police vs. student demonstrators and economic and environmental demonstrations. There is the "blue line" and everyone else. Simply because one is of a minority does not mean they are always going to side with that minority. Look at Bill Cosby, Clarence Thomas, and Condoleeza Rice. Think of Anita Bryant.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree that the time is ripe for examining and changing our gun laws.



Poor Purl said:


> Thank you, Maid, this is the message I've been waiting to see, though I didn't know it. Of course police are scared: THERE ARE TOO MANY GUNS OUT THERE. But there has to be a better way to deal with their fear than to shoot someone.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> An amendment is to expand the meaning of the Constitution. Providing rights to women and to people of color is an interpretation, an elucidation of the original words granting rights. It is a "living" document that is applied to present day realities.....perhaps you are willing to go back to the original....I do not think so. The amendment process provides the means to expand and grow as our country's needs for social reform grows.


I'm sorry. I disagree again. An amendment is not to expand the meaning of anything, it is to change it. There was nothing in the Constitution to be interpreted as granting freedom to slaves or to grant women the right to vote. Those things were intentionally added at a later date. Those amendments had nothing to do with the original words of the Constitution. And, no! I'm not willing to go back to the original Constitution. The amendments made changes for the better. Our founders intended that we be able to change our Constitution, but they made it difficult so that changes would not be made lightly.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


This is the raw, horrible truth - stripped to the bone.

Mrs. Somma shows us what a lot of people think.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Many, many Aboriginal people have enjoyed incredibly successful and fulfilling lives. Many are Leaders who enjoy the same accolades as do politicians and captains of industry.
> 
> It's unhelpful to question what my motives would be if I were born Aboriginal. 1) I was not born Aboriginal; 2) you're introducing the proposition that the Aboriginal people have no hope and that they can be held as the standard bearers to prove a point which I think is totally unfair.
> 
> Using 'stereotypes' to make a point is wrong because it's subjective and unnecessary. It assumes you've walked in their shoes and you haven't. I'm a bit cross.


I apologize! I was trying to make my point clear. My point being that people's thinking is affected by their circumstances. And now, I'll just stop before I get into any more trouble.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You're right! It should be any lifetime but I was speaking for myself
> 
> I think it is a form of programming. When people hear a message over and over they start to adopt that message, no matter what it is. When someone hears over and over that they are better than others, they start to believe it. The same is true for someone who hears over and over that they are less than. We need to break the cycle.


Smart. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> It is not a document written in stone...this why conservatives are so stuck in the past...the past that objectifies women, discriminates against poor people and people of color. Join the present... or join the dinosaurs.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: It took an ammendment to the Constitution to introduce Civil Rights to all. I also firmly believe that there must be changes to the right to bear arms. It has been interpreted so loosely that it has helped to create an atmosphere none of us wants. Think.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How about...they wait until they SEE a gun, to pull the trigger? Innocent people are dying right along with the guilty ones! And guilty shoplifters don't deserve the death penalty! If Michael Brown had pulled a gun, we wouldn't be having this conversation!


Indeed:

 If Michael Brown had pulled a gun, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Anyone on the right willing to talk about the availability of guns?


Nope! Guns are off the table! Unarmed citizens are at the mercy of everyone!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I grew up on military bases and I saw and experienced lots of aggression, racism, sexism, and general intolerance...oh yeah and lots of thoughtless following orders. Think Nazi, "I was only following orders".


I just saw how quickly Ferguson became militarized. The cops disappear and the army reservists move in with their artillery. And all this is seen, from the comfort of our dens.

How do the minority reservists feel about fighting their people?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I agree that the time is ripe for examining and changing our gun laws.


In order to do that, you would need to pass a Constitutional Amendment as the Constitution guarantees our right to bear arms.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Careful, SQM - you're up against a constitutional scholar who "knows" more than the Supreme Court. And her statements are fully substantiated by her own opinion.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the complete information. A shameful waste of the taxpayer's money for dubious political purposes.



DGreen said:


> From the Huffington Post writer Chris Weigant, 11/24/14:
> For those of you who are counting, this is the seventh such report that has come to exactly the same conclusions. The House committee was led by a Republican, but the report itself was a bipartisan effort.
> 
> That we have had seven thorough investigations of this tragedy is apparently not enough for some folks, since an eighth investigation was recently launched by House Republicans. They refuse to accept the conclusions of these prior investigations -- all seven of them -- that there simply was no nefarious plot from the White House to "spin" the tragedy for political gain. In fact, the mere existence of seven investigations (with the eighth already underway) should indicate to the objective observer that only one party is "playing politics" with the Benghazi tragedy -- and it is not President Obama's party who is doing so.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I can't get the entire reply in the same box. Sorry. Below is my comment.
> 
> Wow! You're describing a lot of teenage boys! Are we to teach our young men that they must be subservient to authority? Shall we teach them to bow as well? I thought we were a nation of equals. I will never tell my sons to be subservient to anyone!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How can you say that DYING is taking responsibility for his own actions?


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: More idiotic thinking. Thanks for pointing out how ridiculous it sounds.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Joey would prefer to pretend nothing has changed economically, socially or morally since the constitution was written. As if we still ride in carriages, we still shoot blunderbusses, we still communicate with quill and parchment.


 :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: And the vote were limited to white males. :evil: :evil: :evil:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, it begins with people experiencing success. The best way for some to have success is to have a job. If the government would take steps to bring back the jobs, people who think they can't be successful, could. And people who think that others cannot be successful, would find out that they can. If people aren't given a fair chance, they can't prove themselves. Bringing back the jobs would solve a lot of problems besides. Bringing back the jobs would also provide a living wage without having to pass a law.


And easily available education and training to everyone. People need skills for most jobs IMO.

And to break the cycle of 'career welfarers' perhaps programs could be introduced to take the education and training to them. If we want people to be motivated, they need to know they are valued enough to be given the opportunity and have that opportunity brought to them. Like charities bring their assistance.

So many people who struggle have no idea what resources are available to them and this is also the case with people who have it better.

I can research and eventually find resources that I need but to many, it's something they are completely unaware of. If they do know that resources are available, often they don't know how to go about accessing them let alone finding them.

Have to think outside the box. Out-reach programs need to increase and be highly visible to the people who need their help. Many charities are wonderful at reaching out but their main concern is for the people's well-being and safety. More are needed to address other facets of societal opportunities.

Ignorance (not the punitive kind) is way deeper than seen at face value. Somehow, someway those people have to be found and supported. Then things might begin to change.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perfect explanation.



DGreen said:


> According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. attorneys prosecuted 162,000 federal cases in 2010, the most recent year for which we have data. Grand juries declined to return an indictment in 11 of them.
> 
> A recent Houston Chronicle investigation found that police have been nearly immune from criminal charges in shootings in Houston and other large cities in recent years. In Harris County, Texas, for example, grand juries havent indicted a Houston police officer since 2004; in Dallas, grand juries reviewed 81 shootings between 2008 and 2012 and returned just one indictment. Separate research by Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson has found that officers are rarely charged in on-duty killings, although it didnt look at grand jury indictments specifically.
> ****************
> Does anyone else see a pattern? No wonder people of Ferguson are angry. They know the system does not work for them. Even if Wilson was justified, the statistics support the perception of unfairness for people of color.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: It took an ammendment to the Constitution to introduce Civil Rights to all. I also firmly believe that there must be changes to the right to bear arms. It has been interpreted so loosely that it has helped to create an atmosphere none of us wants. Think.


When someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else, I'd rather be in a room full of law abiding gun holders than a room full of unarmed people, hiding under their desks!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I apologize! I was trying to make my point clear. My point being that people's thinking is affected by their circumstances. And now, I'll just stop before I get into any more trouble.


Thank you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> If the streets of the US are dangerous, the battlefields of Afghanistan are worse - and we don't care for the veterans who are suffering from PTSD or lifetime disability from injuries when they come home. Even without injuries, what our servicemen see in the Mideast is crippling in and of itself.
> 
> YEAH - THE MILITARY is a great solution and subservience is desirable - especially if one is of color. (sarcasm)


Blacks must know their place...in the Congress and in the White House....along with many more women. IMHO


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you NEB - I believe it has been happening since blacks were slaves - some manage somehow to overcome the stigma and that belief that for some reason they are less than those of another skin color but so many carry on the feeling through generations that it is the way it is and it can't be changed. To me that is the problem? It causes resentment on both sides.


Being a slave holds no stigma - however being the master does.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Yes, the military teaches people to be subservient.
> sub·ser·vi·ent
> adjective
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The supreme court has no right to make laws. Freeing the slaves and giving women the right to vote, were done through the amendment process. And the Constitution does NOT grant women the right to kill their babies! (Could not help writing the last point.)


nor does it say a woman must endure a not-wanted pregnancy.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry. I disagree again. An amendment is not to expand the meaning of anything, it is to change it. There was nothing in the Constitution to be interpreted as granting freedom to slaves or to grant women the right to vote. Those things were intentionally added at a later date. Those amendments had nothing to do with the original words of the Constitution. And, no! I'm not willing to go back to the original Constitution. The amendments made changes for the better. Our founders intended that we be able to change our Constitution, but they made it difficult so that changes would not be made lightly.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I disagree completely.

How about effective background checks? Limits on non-registered sales at Gun Show?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nope! Guns are off the table! Unarmed citizens are at the mercy of everyone!


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SQM said:


> I just saw how quickly Ferguson became militarized. The cops disappear and the army reservists move in with their artillery. And all this is seen, from the comfort of our dens.
> 
> How do the minority reservists feel about fighting their people?


We would have to ask them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Better hide well the room full of gun holders when the friendly fire starts.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> When someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else, I'd rather be in a room full of law abiding gun holders than a room full of unarmed people, hiding under their desks!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> It is in some instances. Look at some of the footage of police vs. student demonstrators and economic and environmental demonstrations. There is the "blue line" and everyone else. Simply because one is of a minority does not mean they are always going to side with that minority. Look at Bill Cosby, Clarence Thomas, and Condoleeza Rice. Think of Anita Bryant.


These are the exceptions that prove the rule.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I disagree completely.
> 
> How about effective background checks? Limits on non-registered sales at Gun Show?


Those two things would only amount to feel good legislation. Criminals and crazy people wouldn't get their guns in a legal manner (most don't already), but they'd get them anyway.

Many years ago when I was in my teens, I thought gun registration was a marvelous idea. But while having a discussion with my father, he pointed out that if our country were ever invaded by an enemy, that enemy could go directly to the gun registrations and use it to disarm the people before they could do anything to stop them. That made sense to me then. Of late, I've come to think that we're in more danger of our own government disarming us, than any invading force.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, goodnight ladies! I'm ready for bed. Its been a stimulating conversation that I've thoroughly enjoyed. However, I probably should have been knitting. Crunch time!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.
> 
> I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


I honestly do not know why I am writing this because the person or persons I am aiming this at will not read it. Their total disregard for the feelings and understanding of others will not permit them. They prefer to insulate themselves in their ignorance.

I know this speech was made by the Chief of the Australian Defence Forces and relates to the Australian Defence Forces but the Australian Defence Forces are not unique in the world. I believe that the same speech could be made to any Defence Force in any country in the world, and YES including the Defence Forces of the mighty, powerful, leader of the Free World, the United States of America. If you think that this speech does not apply to members of your Armed Forces then you are the one who is hiding her head in the sand. You may not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics, but they are. They are not forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics by their superiors but they are forced to do so by 'the mob mentality' that exists in the armed forces. They are forced to do so by some of their fellow military personnel. They are forced to do so by their own lack of intelligence, conscience and consideration for others. Not every member of the armed forces is highly educated, moral or in possession of a conscience. The same can also be said of members of the Police in any country of the world.

Your comment "So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media" only serves to display your total lack of understanding and empathy for others. Having called your President, one of the most powerful men in the world, a Nazi, should open you up to investigation. If you lived in Australia your comments would be reported to the Authorities and you would find yourself having to answer questions regarding this disgusting statement.

I know you will not watch this clip and listen to this speech, your total lack of understanding and comprehension will not allow you to. If indeed you actually read what I have written will only result in one thing, you will come out with both guns blazing, telling me I am ignorant, ill informed and have no right to comment on the internal affairs of the USA. Well, I suggest you travel down under and listen to what people in the streets here are saying and how your statements and the events that have unfolded are reflecting on the American Citizens and how they are perceived in other parts of the world. I would suggest if you did take that journey you just listen, you do not speak. Why? Because when people hear your accent they will be polite and not say what they really think, they would not want to upset a visitor to our country, but if they thought you were a fellow Australian they would not hold back, they would really let fly with the comments. Australians can and do have a colourful turn of phrase and they would not hold back with their comments.

Message from the Chief of Army, Lieutenant General David Morrison, AO, to the Australian Army following the announcement on Thursday, 13 June 2013 of civilian police and Defence investigations into allegations of unacceptable behaviour by Army members


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Being a slave holds no stigma - however being the master does.


It seems to hold a stigma or the problems would not be as bad, in my opinion, at least by some African Americans in the ghettos.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In order to do that, you would need to pass a Constitutional Amendment as the Constitution guarantees our right to bear arms.


You would also have to deal with the NRA and that has been tried before. I don't see how guns will ever be anything but a favorite item with a large percentage of Americans. They are in the mindset that they NEED a gun to protect themselves from some unknown attacker. jmo as a Canadian. Thankfully a Canadian! as far as the gun mindset is concerned.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Why don't you lug around 22 pounds in 100 degree heat for a week, then do it again with 24 pounds for another week. Maybe that two pounds would not be an issue. Get back to us on that, then maybe what you have to say will have 'more weight'
> 
> Where is the law that gives permission for officers to shoot Black teenagers? Guess there is none, so your entire conversation lacks any credibility since it is based on a lie


My comments relate to the first part of your post only.

If the members of the police force are unable to carry their equipment then they should seek employment elsewhere. They should work in a more genteel environment where they will not have to carry anything heavier than their own bigoted ideas. If it is too hot for them in the kitchen then they should get out.

Australian Police carry tasers as part of their equipment, and some Australian Police are women. Are Australian Police fitter, stronger and healthier than the American Police? They must be, because we have many, many days when the mercury climbs well over the 100F during the summer months. Summer has not started yet but already many of our cities are experiencing 40C days, which is well over your 100F.

Tasers were introduced as a non lethal choice of weapons, so the questions still stand. Why do your police choose to carry guns, which can only be described as 'death sticks', rather than a non lethal weapon such as a taser .

Oh, I forgot to mention, the Australian Police carry tasers as well as guns.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> You now are implying that all those who are not Obama Haters are Nazis? I am not an Obama cultist and I am sick of being called one. I do know that he is the President of the United States and that his position demands respect or has in the past. Only you are right - everyone who dares to disagree with you is worth nothing - you are so blinded by your hate that you can't see anything but your hate.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Well said. :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I disagree completely.
> 
> How about effective background checks? Limits on non-registered sales at Gun Show?


I wonder why that isn't necessary in my Country? I have never had a gun or thought of having a gun in my whole life. None of my family have ever even discussed having a gun. None of my friends have ever discussed at least to our family, that they want a gun. It is not part of our mindset. I am not saying that there are no guns. We have our criminals here too. We went to Arizona for 11 winters and other Canadians did to -- we were ridiculed for not having a weapon (in case someone attacked us). We never heard of one person who needed a gun while we were there. There were l200 spots in our park. I am Sure that at least 50% of the Americans had guns. They told us that we were crazy. None of us were hurt, none of us were shot, no one pulled a gun on us.

We were ridiculed by some Americans - told we were naive and foolish. Told us that we would likely all be shot at some time. We travelled on your roads on many many trips. We saw people carrying guns. No one ever bothered us. NOt even close.

In Canada we don't even think about someone having a gun. I would rather live with our mindset than those who defend guns . How many Americans actually find they need to use their 'protection ' not that many in my opinion.

I used to argue with some of them but closed minds were included there too. This is the first time I have talked guns that I can remember on these threads. I know many of you believe in having guns. I am glad I don't feel that way. We were told we could be honest -so here I am.

I just don't understand the mindset that makes it safer for someone to carry a weapon, hidden or out in the open. It is absolutely foreign to my life.

I am not saying that we don't have guns for hunting - I am talking about hand guns used for 'protection' in cars and homes and rv's. I guess it is something that will never be accepted there but I am glad I live in Canada. Even more so in England and I believe the down under countries.

Well, ladies, It is 9:30 here and I am going to go and read. I am saddened by what has happened in Ferguson, for everyone concerned. I am going to go and knit with the Seniors center knitters tomorrow morning. I am making a hat and scarf to match my sweater. see you all tomorrow.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> What do you call the extensive incidence of rape of fellow soldiers? Think rape is part of the military code of ethics? There are also incidences of "individual" dealing with the enemy and disrespect of locals and their culture in countries where we have military bases.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Well said, and the evidence of this maltreatment was sent worldwide. It happens in every army in every country in the world. It has happened since time immemorial, unfortunately, and will continue to happen in the future. The only place where members of any armed forces of any country are 'golden haired little choir boys' who would never do anything like that is in the movies and is a product of the Hollywood dream factory.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Better hide well the room full of gun holders when the friendly fire starts.


What are your chances of being in a room that is being attacked? doesn't make sense to me .


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I disagree completely.
> 
> How about effective background checks? Limits on non-registered sales at Gun Show?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> When someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else, I'd rather be in a room full of law abiding gun holders than a room full of unarmed people, hiding under their desks!


Your room would be a very unsafe place to be. All those law abiding gun holders shooting their weapons, who knows who would be shot. It would be much safer to cower under the table with the unarmed people, at least you would not be caught in the cross fire or shot by one of your law abiding gun holders.

Be honest, how many times in your life have you had to draw your gun and shoot another person, how many times have you been in a situation when someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else. If you are honest you will say never. I am 74 years old and have never needed a gun to defend myself, I have never been confronted by anyone holding a gun, I have never been confronted by anyone threatening to shoot me.''

In your scenario you would see all the law abiding gun holders all fired up and read to take aim and shoot, shooting first before they asked the questions. And please do not say if you wait to ask the questions you will be shot yourself as that argument does not hold water. No,it would be, "quick, there is movement over there, quick shoot. Bang, bang, bang. Darn, shot the cat. Over there, quick shoot, darn shot me mother in law. Not everyone has perfect eyesight or perfect aim, how many innocent people would be shot and killed in your scenario.

I thank the heavens I live in Australia where law abiding citizens do not feel the need to strap on a gun or place one in the glove box of the car when they step out the front door. In fact it is illegal to do so in Australia, it is called 'going armed in public' and if the gun is openly displayed it would be 'going armed in public with the intent to cause fear'. You have to have a licence to own a gun in Australia and no one worries about invading foreign troops looking up gun registers in order to disarm the locals. You have to have a legitimate reason to own a gun and it must be kept in a locked and secure safe, with the ammunition kept elsewhere. Yes, yes, yes, I know our criminals are illegally armed and guns are illegally imported into Australia, but we are not discussing illegally armed criminals here we are discussing everyday citizens who are armed to the teeth and openly display their weapons.

To Australian eyes it appears that the USA has not progressed beyond the days of the wild west, Wyatt Earp and the gun fight at the OK Coral.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder why that isn't necessary in my Country? I have never had a gun or thought of having a gun in my whole life. None of my family have ever even discussed having a gun. None of my friends have ever discussed at least to our family, that they want a gun. It is not part of our mindset. I am not saying that there are no guns. We have our criminals here too. We went to Arizona for 11 winters and other Canadians did to -- we were ridiculed for not having a weapon (in case someone attacked us). We never heard of one person who needed a gun while we were there. There were l200 spots in our park. I am Sure that at least 50% of the Americans had guns. They told us that we were crazy. None of us were hurt, none of us were shot, no one pulled a gun on us.
> 
> We were ridiculed by some Americans - told we were naive and foolish. Told us that we would likely all be shot at some time. We travelled on your roads on many many trips. We saw people carrying guns. No one ever bothered us. NOt even close.
> 
> ...


Your post coincides with a terrible accident. A U.S. mother was shot dead by her 3 year old while she was changing her baby. The 3 year old found the loaded gun under the couch:

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/11/26/15/54/toddler-accidentally-shoots-dead-mother


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I honestly do not know why I am writing this because the person or persons I am aiming this at will not read it. Their total disregard for the feelings and understanding of others will not permit them. They prefer to insulate themselves in their ignorance.
> 
> I know this speech was made by the Chief of the Australian Defence Forces and relates to the Australian Defence Forces but the Australian Defence Forces are not unique in the world. I believe that the same speech could be made to any Defence Force in any country in the world, and YES including the Defence Forces of the mighty, powerful, leader of the Free World, the United States of America. If you think that this speech does not apply to members of your Armed Forces then you are the one who is hiding her head in the sand. You may not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics, but they are. They are not forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics by their superiors but they are forced to do so by 'the mob mentality' that exists in the armed forces. They are forced to do so by some of their fellow military personnel. They are forced to do so by their own lack of intelligence, conscience and consideration for others. Not every member of the armed forces is highly educated, moral or in possession of a conscience. The same can also be said of members of the Police in any country of the world.
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I honestly do not know why I am writing this because the person or persons I am aiming this at will not read it. Their total disregard for the feelings and understanding of others will not permit them. They prefer to insulate themselves in their ignorance.
> 
> I know this speech was made by the Chief of the Australian Defence Forces and relates to the Australian Defence Forces but the Australian Defence Forces are not unique in the world. I believe that the same speech could be made to any Defence Force in any country in the world, and YES including the Defence Forces of the mighty, powerful, leader of the Free World, the United States of America. If you think that this speech does not apply to members of your Armed Forces then you are the one who is hiding her head in the sand. You may not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics, but they are. They are not forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics by their superiors but they are forced to do so by 'the mob mentality' that exists in the armed forces. They are forced to do so by some of their fellow military personnel. They are forced to do so by their own lack of intelligence, conscience and consideration for others. Not every member of the armed forces is highly educated, moral or in possession of a conscience. The same can also be said of members of the Police in any country of the world.
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> You would also have to deal with the NRA and that has been tried before. I don't see how guns will ever be anything but a favorite item with a large percentage of Americans. They are in the mindset that they NEED a gun to protect themselves from some unknown attacker. jmo as a Canadian. Thankfully a Canadian! as far as the gun mindset is concerned.


The NRA is an organization of people! They're only doing what the people they represent, want them to do. The 1% have their lobbyists. Why shouldn't the people have lobbyists? If the NRA is powerful, I'm glad! The power belongs to the people! It seems to me that people like to pretend that the NRA is some evil entity, unto itself. But when I hear NRA, I think of the millions of people who are trying to be represented. It isn't the NRA members who are conducting mass murders and robbing banks. There is a very strong agenda to paint all gun owners as crazies or people who just aren't civilized. Well, it's a lie!

I'm not a member of the NRA and I don't own a gun, but I will fight for their right to do do! And I hope and pray that if the day ever comes when I need them to defend me, they will be there! History shows that every nation that has installed gun ban has succumbed to tyranny! It didn't always happen in a year or two, but it always happened. A people who cannot or will not defend their freedom, will not have that freedom! We're on that slippery slope right now.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I honestly do not know why I am writing this because the person or persons I am aiming this at will not read it. Their total disregard for the feelings and understanding of others will not permit them. They prefer to insulate themselves in their ignorance.
> 
> I know this speech was made by the Chief of the Australian Defence Forces and relates to the Australian Defence Forces but the Australian Defence Forces are not unique in the world. I believe that the same speech could be made to any Defence Force in any country in the world, and YES including the Defence Forces of the mighty, powerful, leader of the Free World, the United States of America. If you think that this speech does not apply to members of your Armed Forces then you are the one who is hiding her head in the sand. You may not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics, but they are. They are not forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics by their superiors but they are forced to do so by 'the mob mentality' that exists in the armed forces. They are forced to do so by some of their fellow military personnel. They are forced to do so by their own lack of intelligence, conscience and consideration for others. Not every member of the armed forces is highly educated, moral or in possession of a conscience. The same can also be said of members of the Police in any country of the world.
> 
> ...


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The NRA is an organization of people! They're only doing what the people they represent, want them to do. The 1% have their lobbyists. Why shouldn't the people have lobbyists? If the NRA is powerful, I'm glad! The power belongs to the people! It seems to me that people like to pretend that the NRA is some evil entity, unto itself. But when I hear NRA, I think of the millions of people who are trying to be represented. It isn't the NRA members who are conducting mass murders and robbing banks. There is a very strong agenda to paint all gun owners as crazies or people who just aren't civilized. Well, it's a lie!
> 
> I'm not a member of the NRA and I don't own a gun, but I will fight for their right to do do! And I hope and pray that if the day ever comes when I need them to defend me, they will be there! History shows that every nation that has installed gun ban has succumbed to tyranny! It didn't always happen in a year or two, but it always happened. A people who cannot or will not defend their freedom, will not have that freedom! We're on that slippery slope right now.


The NRA is backed by gun manufacturers. It is in their interest to spread propaganda that the government is planning to confiscate guns. Another example of big corporate interests doing what they do.

Those who gave money to the NRA include 22 gun makers, 12 of which manufacture assault rifles, and high-capacity ammunition magazine manufacturers or sellers. Beretta alone donated one million dollars to the NRA to lobby to overturn gun control laws in the wake of the 2008 Supreme Court decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, which eliminated laws against handguns.

The Violence Policy Center Executive Director Josh Sugarmann states, "Today's NRA is a virtual subsidiary of the gun industry. While the NRA portrays itself as protecting the 'freedom' of individual gun owners, it's actually working to protect the freedom of the gun industry to manufacture and sell virtually any weapon or accessory."

The NRA is nothing more than a front for corporate money spent to enlarge markets and profits, no different than the bogus Smokers Rights Groups that were created secretly by major tobacco companies Philip Morris and R.J. Reynolds.

From 2004 to 2010, the NRA's revenue from corporate fundraising grew twice as fast as its income from members' dues. So, let's be clear. The NRA does not exist to represent gun owners and hunters. Its purpose is to be a front for corporate lobbying, to help elect legislators who will resist any and all gun regulation, and to strike fear in its members about gun control. The political activities of the NRA serve right-wing political interests, as well. Otherwise, why would the Koch brothers have donated big bucks to the NRA in 2012?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder why that isn't necessary in my Country? I have never had a gun or thought of having a gun in my whole life. None of my family have ever even discussed having a gun. None of my friends have ever discussed at least to our family, that they want a gun. It is not part of our mindset. I am not saying that there are no guns. We have our criminals here too. We went to Arizona for 11 winters and other Canadians did to -- we were ridiculed for not having a weapon (in case someone attacked us). We never heard of one person who needed a gun while we were there. There were l200 spots in our park. I am Sure that at least 50% of the Americans had guns. They told us that we were crazy. None of us were hurt, none of us were shot, no one pulled a gun on us.
> 
> We were ridiculed by some Americans - told we were naive and foolish. Told us that we would likely all be shot at some time. We travelled on your roads on many many trips. We saw people carrying guns. No one ever bothered us. NOt even close.
> 
> ...


Most of us go through our lives having the same mind set as you. None of my friends or family members have guns. We don't go through life worrying about being shot. Anyone who tells you that you have to worry about being shot, just walking down a street in the US, is lying to you. The vast majority of gun deaths in this country are perpetrated BY drug gang members ON drug gang members. If you're not a member of a criminal drug gang, your chances of being shot and killed are slim. Unfortunately, some innocent people get caught in the crossfire. But you don't eliminate that by banning law abiding gun ownership.

In the history of this nation, gun ownership was never an issue. It was taken for granted and it was automatically accepted as a right of the people. People were safe in their homes without locking their doors. The issue isn't guns. The issue is evil! We have allowed evil into our country and it's roots begin at the top. We've had many in our leadership over the past several decades, who get away with lying, cheating and stealing. Our government has been bought at the highest levels. It creates an atmosphere of evil that spreads to every level. Banning guns won't fix what's wrong with our country. It will only make all of us more vulnerable to the evil.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Your room would be a very unsafe place to be. All those law abiding gun holders shooting their weapons, who knows who would be shot. It would be much safer to cower under the table with the unarmed people, at least you would not be caught in the cross fire or shot by one of your law abiding gun holders.
> 
> Be honest, how many times in your life have you had to draw your gun and shoot another person, how many times have you been in a situation when someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else. If you are honest you will say never. I am 74 years old and have never needed a gun to defend myself, I have never been confronted by anyone holding a gun, I have never been confronted by anyone threatening to shoot me.''
> 
> ...


Because we hold discourse on the subject, people assume that Americans are all armed and shooting it out with each other. That is not the case. I don't own a gun and have never owned a gun. They scare me. I recognize my mistake when in my example, I stated that I'd rather be in a room full of those holding guns. But I'd still rather be in a room full of those law abiding gun holders because all of the gun owners I've ever known are trained and very careful. They wouldn't just start shooting. And it's really nonsense to assume that they would. I specified law abiding. Law abiding citizens are careful and cautious with their guns. A typical situation would be like that in Oklahoma a few weeks back. When the Islamic terrorist started cutting off heads, one man with a gun stopped it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Your post coincides with a terrible accident. A U.S. mother was shot dead by her 3 year old while she was changing her baby. The 3 year old found the loaded gun under the couch:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/world/2014/11/26/15/54/toddler-accidentally-shoots-dead-mother


You can't fix stupid! Law abiding gun owners should not be punished or have their rights taken away because of the few utterly stupid people in this world! I cannot even begin to imagine why anyone with a child in the home would have a loaded gun under the couch! At this point, I'm speechless!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The NRA is backed by gun manufacturers. It is in their interest to spread propaganda that the government is planning to confiscate guns. Another example of big corporate interests doing what they do.
> 
> Those who gave money to the NRA include 22 gun makers, 12 of which manufacture assault rifles, and high-capacity ammunition magazine manufacturers or sellers. Beretta alone donated one million dollars to the NRA to lobby to overturn gun control laws in the wake of the 2008 Supreme Court decision in District of Columbia v. Heller, which eliminated laws against handguns.
> 
> ...


You keep telling yourself that. Without gun owners, there wouldn't be gun manufacturers.

The political activities of the NRA serve tight wing political interests because that's whom they are representing. Right wingers deserve representation just as much as left wingers. I think that left wingers think that the right wing is only made up of corporate interests. Not so! The right wing is made up of people! People who want to be represented and who deserve to be represented.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Being a slave holds no stigma - however being the master does.


Unfortunately guilt and shame don't always respond to the rules of logic--I think some African-Americans _are_ bothered by the fact that their forebears were bought, sold, and traded like cattle. And it doesn't help when bozos like Cliven Bundy (remember him?) let slip that they believe "the ********" were better off toiling under the whip.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> My comments relate to the first part of your post only.
> 
> If the members of the police force are unable to carry their equipment then they should seek employment elsewhere. They should work in a more genteel environment where they will not have to carry anything heavier than their own bigoted ideas. If it is too hot for them in the kitchen then they should get out.
> 
> ...


I so agree with you, Evie. Imagine a firefighter declining to wear a fireproof jacket or a respirator on the grounds that it was "too heavy"! It hadn't occurred to me before, but you may be right--perhaps the reason American cops are so gun happy is because they're too darn out of shape to defend themselves in any other way. Here we do see a fair number of law enforcement agents with sagging muscles and visible pot bellies--the yuk-yuks about cops sitting around scarfing donuts in their patrol cars is right on the money.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You can't fix stupid! Law abiding gun owners should not be punished or have their rights taken away because of the few utterly stupid people in this world! I cannot even begin to imagine why anyone with a child in the home would have a loaded gun under the couch! At this point, I'm speechless!


I'm not--my father used to sleep with a loaded gun under his pillow. He was a very intelligent man, but honestly--! :roll:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You keep telling yourself that. Without gun owners, there wouldn't be gun manufacturers.
> 
> The political activities of the NRA serve tight wing political interests because that's whom they are representing. Right wingers deserve representation just as much as left wingers. I think that left wingers think that the right wing is only made up of corporate interests. Not so! The right wing is made up of people! People who want to be represented and who deserve to be represented.


No doubt they have a right to be represented. But the NRA is backed in large measure by corporate money. Corporate money buys speech. In Washington. Let the people speak for themselves.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


joeysomma
I hear no white people saying "yes Sir, no Sir. No-one should be subservient. We all should be equal. Let's start there but with folks like you around that cannot happen. We have to wait until your Generation dies out.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm glad you started with IMO, because much of this is nonsense. Have you ever known anyone who needed government support in order to feed her/his family? I have, white people as well as black. All it took was one serious illness, keeping them out of work until the job went to someone else. Or one pregnancy, after which Dad skipped out (I'm thinking here of a white grad student whose wife supported them until the baby was born, at which time Dad announced he had met someone else). Not one was proud of being on welfare, not one wanted it to last long. As soon as they were able to go back to work, they did, often for much less than they were originally paid.
> 
> It's not the Civil Rights Act that failed. It's the people who never wanted it who made certain it wouldn't work.


Poor Purl
no use trying to explain some things to others, they are entrenched in some believes and cannot climb out of that rut.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If you can figure out a way to stop testosterone from raging through a young adolescent male, then we can have this conversation. I expect more from an adult that we're supposed to trust with our lives and the lives of our children!


Knitter from Nebraska
perhaps Officer Wilson is too young to deal with problems. It would be interesting to see what age the Officers are who have done the killings.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Changed my mind. I need all the brain power I can get for Turkey Day.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What year was that? If it wasn't recently your comments are irrelevant do to lack of current experience and current knowledge.
> 
> I do not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics. So when I think Nazi, I think (Obama)cultists and the mainstream media


lovethelake
keep posting to expose your hateful existence and the fact, that you know nothing about many of the things you write about.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> No doubt they have a right to be represented. But the NRA is backed in large measure by corporate money. Corporate money buys speech. In Washington. Let the people speak for themselves.


And every NGO (non governmental organization) on the left is funded by corporate money as well. Let's see? How many NGOs is Soros funding these days? I've lost count! And what about Bloomberg's, mayors against guns? You're right! Corporate money buys speech, on BOTH sides of the aisle! If the people on the right should be left to speak for themselves, so should those on the left. Except that then, no one would have a voice! Cash is king when it comes to having a voice in this country!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> no use trying to explain some things to others, they are entrenched in some believes and cannot climb out of that rut.


Thanks, Huck! Except that sometimes people just don't want to accept what they can't see. I guess we're all entrenched in our own beliefs.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> I hear no white people saying "yes Sir, no Sir. No-one should be subservient. We all should be equal. Let's start there but with folks like you around that cannot happen. We have to wait until your Generation dies out.


Did Joey really say that? (can't find the original post). Ugh!! I can't believe how offensive that is. The police are _no one's_ superiors--their role is to protect and serve the public, not the other way around.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> perhaps Officer Wilson is too young to deal with problems. It would be interesting to see what age the Officers are who have done the killings.


You could be on to something. With age comes wisdom.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Because we hold discourse on the subject, people assume that Americans are all armed and shooting it out with each other. That is not the case. I don't own a gun and have never owned a gun. They scare me. I recognize my mistake when in my example, I stated that I'd rather be in a room full of those holding guns. But I'd still rather be in a room full of those law abiding gun holders because all of the gun owners I've ever known are trained and very careful. They wouldn't just start shooting. And it's really nonsense to assume that they would. I specified law abiding. Law abiding citizens are careful and cautious with their guns. A typical situation would be like that in Oklahoma a few weeks back. When the Islamic terrorist started cutting off heads, one man with a gun stopped it.


 :thumbup:


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:



> You could be on to something. With age comes wisdom.


Here are some stats (courtesy of Wikipedia) on Darren Wilson:

"Darren Dean Wilson[19] (born May 14, 1986) was born in Fort Worth, Texas.[20][21] He resides in Crestwood, Missouri, a city of 11,000 people about 18 miles (29 kilometers) southwest of Ferguson. He was 28 years old at the time of the shooting.[22][23]

Wilson first worked as a police officer in the police department of Jennings, Missouri, later disbanded.[24] Wilson had no disciplinary history with the department. After the Jennings Police Department was disbanded, Wilson became a police officer in Ferguson.[25] He was described by a Jennings coworker as an "average officer" who "didn't get into any trouble".[19] Former Jennings Police Chief Robert Orr said that he hardly remembered Wilson and said "that must mean he never got in any trouble, because thats when they usually came to me".[24][25]

Darren Wilson is 6 ft 4 in (1.93 m) and 210 lb (95 kg)."

It doesn't surprise me that he's a relatively young man, but I find it interesting that he stands 6 ft 4 in. The conservatives have been going on and on about how Brown physically overwhelmed the officer in question. Brown may have outweighed Wilson, but it's obvious that the two were about the same height.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> This is the raw, horrible truth - stripped to the bone.
> 
> Mrs. Somma shows us what a lot of people think.


The fact that Mrs. Somma shows us what a lot of people think scares the living s**t out of me. My bunker mentality keeps growing and growing. At this late date, I don't want try to do anything to change the world, I just want to survive. Time for me to find the right piece of land for my little log cabin.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The fact that Mrs. Somma shows us what a lot of people think scares the living s**t out of me. My bunker mentality keeps growing and growing. At this late date, I don't want try to do anything to change the world, I just want to survive. Time for me to find the right piece of land for my little log cabin.


I'm with you, Maid--in fact, I'll pay executive rates for space for me, DH, my son, and two overweight cats.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In order to do that, you would need to pass a Constitutional Amendment as the Constitution guarantees our right to bear arms.


I'm opposed to tinkering with the 2nd Amendment. IMO, gun control is a states' rights and community issue. Let's work on gun control where we understand the conditions the best. Oakland, CA and Cuba, MI are very different places.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Did Joey really say that? (can't find the original post). Ugh!! I can't believe how offensive that is. The police are _no one's_ superiors--their role is to protect and serve the public, not the other way around.


She sure did:

peacegoddess wrote:
The military is part of the "the militarization of the police". These guys come out of the military often with no more than a high school education, lots of aggression against minorities and anyone or group who thinks or looks or acts differently than them and then are again given carte blanch with weapons.

It would teach him to say "Yes, Sir" and "No, Sir" to his superiors and he would be subservient.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I honestly do not know why I am writing this because the person or persons I am aiming this at will not read it. Their total disregard for the feelings and understanding of others will not permit them. They prefer to insulate themselves in their ignorance.
> 
> I know this speech was made by the Chief of the Australian Defence Forces and relates to the Australian Defence Forces but the Australian Defence Forces are not unique in the world. I believe that the same speech could be made to any Defence Force in any country in the world, and YES including the Defence Forces of the mighty, powerful, leader of the Free World, the United States of America. If you think that this speech does not apply to members of your Armed Forces then you are the one who is hiding her head in the sand. You may not believe that any military person is forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics, but they are. They are not forced to do anything illegal or against the military code of ethics by their superiors but they are forced to do so by 'the mob mentality' that exists in the armed forces. They are forced to do so by some of their fellow military personnel. They are forced to do so by their own lack of intelligence, conscience and consideration for others. Not every member of the armed forces is highly educated, moral or in possession of a conscience. The same can also be said of members of the Police in any country of the world.
> 
> ...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> She sure did:
> 
> peacegoddess wrote:
> The military is part of the "the militarization of the police". These guys come out of the military often with no more than a high school education, lots of aggression against minorities and anyone or group who thinks or looks or acts differently than them and then are again given carte blanch with weapons.
> ...


*groan* I try to remain optimistic about future race relations in the US, but comments like Joey's make me want throw my arms up in despair. How are things EVER going to change when people harbor such lame-brained bigoted notions?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I disagree completely.
> 
> How about effective background checks? Limits on non-registered sales at Gun Show?


It would be a start. I don't agree with Neb at all but then I was raised with a completely different mind set thank Heavens.

Eve - thanks for posting the message from your Army General. I have absolute respect for him. I wish all armed forces senior officers felt the way he does. We were an army family for many years and there were officers who should have been ashamed to wear the uniform. There were also some of the ordinary non commissioned solders who were idiots too. However the Officers were the ones who set the bar - and the bar sometimes is very low. I admit I am very much aware of the good things about service life and the poor things. I was too independent to be really happy as a non commissioned soldiers wife. Especially when stupid people were running things. I was so glad when Pat got out because he did his job and was an excellent soldier but there were things happening that he couldn't agree with and neither could I.

I guess there were not a lot of people like this Australian General. All senior officers should be made to listen to his speech. I applaud him.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> I do not need to be aimed at, poor choice of words don't you think?
> 
> What happened in Ferguson was morphed into something that does not represent Ferguson. Ferguson is going to be a ghost town. Businesses will close, properties will be abandoned, and families will leave all because the so called Holder Justice Department and the charlatan 'Civil Rights' people needing attention. Ferguson will be another Detroit, dead and gone forever all because people were 'frustrated' and felt entitled to destroy other people's lives. The people causing the riots in other cities has destroyed whatever sympathy people had for what happened in Ferguson.
> 
> When the rioters get bored and the media goes on to something else, Ferguson and all the cities destroyed by riots will still be destroyed, lives ruined, businesses gone... nothing more, nothing less.


Great job of minimizing the reality of the black experience in Ferguson and elsewhere. Even better job of twisting the essence of the story into something simplistic, narrow-minded and bigoted by focusing on the violence and characterizing every protestor as a rioter. Attributing the motives of the vast majority of protestors to a simple "they are bored" denies the validity of the problems and discrimination people of color face every day, and of which you have absolutely no understanding.

You have just given all of us here on KP a very clear demonstration of what a racist talks like and believes.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> *groan* I try to remain optimistic about future race relations in the US, but comments like Joey's make me want throw my arms up in despair. How are things EVER going to change when people harbor such lame-brained bigoted notions?


We do what we can to counterbalance such people by speaking out and by supporting progressive values.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm with you, Maid--in fact, I'll pay executive rates for space for me, DH, my son, and two overweight cats.


Good Morning!! Maybe I should be planning an isolated community of like-minded people...


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good Morning!! Maybe I should be planning an isolated community of like-minded people...


With you in charge of the cooking, Maid, I'm certain it would be the trendiest spot in the nation. Wouldn't stay isolated for more than five minutes!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> *groan* I try to remain optimistic about future race relations in the US, but comments like Joey's make me want throw my arms up in despair. How are things EVER going to change when people harbor such lame-brained bigoted notions?


I think we're seeing the start of a new Civil Rights' Movement, one that has Malcolm X's remark "by any means necessary" as one of its core values.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> *groan* I try to remain optimistic about future race relations in the US, but comments like Joey's make me want throw my arms up in despair. How are things EVER going to change when people harbor such lame-brained bigoted notions?


I don't worry so much about people like her as those who are quiet in their bigotry and pretend to be open-minded while secretly harboring such thoughts. At lease we know what we are dealing with when it comes to Joey.

What we must do is forge ahead and leave them behind where they belong. There is no way to educate or convince people with such deeply entrenched beliefs to see a wider truth, so we need to stop wasting our breath trying to do so. Leave them to their cream cheese recipes and slavish belief in the right-wing extremist message.

Feeling very testy this morning.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> With you in charge of the cooking, Maid, I'm certain it would be the trendiest spot in the nation. Wouldn't stay isolated for more than five minutes!


:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I wouldn't want an army to keep the visitors away. Would a dirt track 100 miles long keep people away? Maybe fancy exhaust systems in the kitchens would work. I'd want some of my old friends around, and they're all good cooks. I can see it now. A bunch of fat, aged hippies completely focused on chores that support cooking and forgetting to darn their socks because they can't see their feet. :mrgreen:

On a lighter note, there's a pumpkin pie in the oven and it smells wonderful. We're having pizza for dinner and pumpkin pie for desert. As a friend of mine says "Be kind, play more music and eat pie."

And on a really heavy note, I'm listening to the news (KCBS) am hearing all about the damage done by rioters in Oakland last night. :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I don't worry so much about people like her as those who are quiet in their bigotry and pretend to be open-minded while secretly harboring such thoughts. At lease we know what we are dealing with when it comes to Joey.
> 
> What we must do is forge ahead and leave them behind where they belong. There is no way to educate or convince people with such deeply entrenched beliefs to see a wider truth, so we need to stop wasting our breath trying to do so. Leave them to their cream cheese recipes and slavish belief in the right-wing extremist message.
> 
> Feeling very testy this morning.


You're not the only person around here who feels testy.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Here are some stats (courtesy of Wikipedia) on Darren Wilson:
> 
> "Darren Dean Wilson[19] (born May 14, 1986) was born in Fort Worth, Texas.[20][21] He resides in Crestwood, Missouri, a city of 11,000 people about 18 miles (29 kilometers) southwest of Ferguson. He was 28 years old at the time of the shooting.[22][23]
> 
> ...


I was being somewhat facetious when I said "With age comes wisdom". We obviously can't have a bunch of old geezers policing our streets. I think the problem lies with the attitudes of SOME who enter police work, and with the fairly new, militarized training that police officers are receiving. We need to bring some humanity back into that training. Police officers are supposed to help people.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> The fact that Mrs. Somma shows us what a lot of people think scares the living s**t out of me. My bunker mentality keeps growing and growing. At this late date, I don't want try to do anything to change the world, I just want to survive. Time for me to find the right piece of land for my little log cabin.


I don't want my children and grandchildren to live in this kind of world. Just surviving isn't enough. Survival is right and good, but we must be willing to fight for change. The two go hand in hand.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm opposed to tinkering with the 2nd Amendment. IMO, gun control is a states' rights and community issue. Let's work on gun control where we understand the conditions the best. Oakland, CA and Cuba, MI are very different places.


I absolutely agree!!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Good Morning!! Maybe I should be planning an isolated community of like-minded people...


Then, you'd be called a conspiracy theorist. I get accused of being a conspiracy theorist just because I've stored food and water, in case of an emergency. I actually like the idea of a bunker community, though. Can I come? I'll bring the food and water. :wink:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> With you in charge of the cooking, Maid, I'm certain it would be the trendiest spot in the nation. Wouldn't stay isolated for more than five minutes!


  Yup! I'm already on my way.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I wouldn't want an army to keep the visitors away. Would a dirt track 100 miles long keep people away? Maybe fancy exhaust systems in the kitchens would work. I'd want some of my old friends around, and they're all good cooks. I can see it now. A bunch of fat, aged hippies completely focused on chores that support cooking and forgetting to darn their socks because they can't see their feet. :mrgreen:
> 
> :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> joeysomma wrote:
> Brown's actions led to his death. He is more responsible for his own death than the officer[//].
> 
> Solo:You just proved that I was right about your opinion. I am sorry now that I edited my post. Apology just reversed. I was exactly right about your opinion.
> ...




Those are your words and opinions, not mine. If you understood my opinion you would have known that I said that Michael Brown was not an innocent kid, like the majority of you think. It was his actions that started the whole tragedy. I was not defending Wilson, but was defending the grand jury. But why let little details like that get in the way.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Depending upon the individual officer, you might be right. But I don't think the police should be using lethal force on teens except as a last resort. To me, it makes no difference what race they are. Police officers should be trained to defuse situations like this. It's outrageous that an 18 year old is dead, because he stole some cigars! Remember when the policeman was "our friend"? Not any more!


I do remember when the policeman was "our friend" and thankfully many still are. Training is one thing, being out in the field and having the situation go from bad to disastrous is another. Peoples perceptions differ also. There is no easy answer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How about...they wait until they SEE a gun, to pull the trigger? Innocent people are dying right along with the guilty ones! And guilty shoplifters don't deserve the death penalty! If Michael Brown had pulled a gun, we wouldn't be having this conversation!


 Agreed shoplifters don't deserve the death penalty. Michael Brown's attempt to gain Wilson's gun is what got him shot. It was the turning point in the confrontation.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Then, you'd be called a conspiracy theorist. I get accused of being a conspiracy theorist just because I've stored food and water, in case of an emergency. I actually like the idea of a bunker community, though. Can I come? I'll bring the food and water. :wink:


It's worse than that. I'm ready to move ahead from being a conspiracy theorist to making my conspiracy a reality. Fortunately, my conspiracy is legal and gentle, and I don't want to start a cult. I live in earthquake country and store food and water and various other necessary items for survival. Does this mean I'm an earthquake theorist? Oh, Lord, I'm starting to say really silly things, and being somewhat facetious as well. Time to hit the kitchen, see if there are any last minute things I need to go shopping for, and do as much prep for tomorrow as possible. :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I just read that Oathkeepers is sending volunteers to help protect small businesses in Ferguson.
http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=c492ee6a-f9c2-492d-a573-a511f8489974&c=44b818f0-cd6a-11e3-875f-d4ae52a459cd&ch=466098d0-cd6a-11e3-8790-d4ae52a459cd


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It's worse than that. I'm ready to move ahead from being a conspiracy theorist to making my conspiracy a reality. Fortunately, my conspiracy is legal and gentle, and I don't want to start a cult. I live in earthquake country and store food and water and various other necessary items for survival. Does this mean I'm an earthquake theorist? Oh, Lord, I'm starting to say really silly things, and being somewhat facetious as well. Time to hit the kitchen, see if there are any last minute things I need to go shopping for, and do as much prep for tomorrow as possible. :thumbup:


Nope! I'm sorry! You're already a full fledged conspiracy theorist. There's no denying it. :lol: Ahahahahaha!

I'm about ready to head to my basement to bring up the turkey roaster, punch bowl and serving dishes. Time to get them washed up. And then I'll iron the napkins. What else can I do today? Pies and tiramisu, tonight.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I can't get the entire reply in the same box. Sorry. Below is my comment.
> 
> Wow! You're describing a lot of teenage boys! Are we to teach our young men that they must be subservient to authority? Shall we teach them to bow as well? I thought we were a nation of equals. I will never tell my sons to be subservient to anyone!


Just to be perfectly clear, those are Designer's words that you picked out of the quote, NOT mine.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just read that Oathkeepers is sending volunteers to help protect small businesses in Ferguson.
> http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?ca=c492ee6a-f9c2-492d-a573-a511f8489974&c=44b818f0-cd6a-11e3-875f-d4ae52a459cd&ch=466098d0-cd6a-11e3-8790-d4ae52a459cd


The KKK will be coming in right after them.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Oathkeepers and the KKK such good progressive (liberal) organizations. Just what Ferguson needs.


Changed my mind. No point in responding to stupidity of such depth and breadth.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She was making reference to serving in the military, to learn to be subservient. I think one of the biggest problems we face as a nation is that the people are becoming subservient to the government. Things were meant to be the other way around. We were meant to be our own rulers and the government, our servants. We need to be clear on that!


It's hard when the gov't is telling you not to worry, we'll take care of you. That doesn't promote self sufficiency.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Even a thug walking down the middle of the street smoking a stolen cigar does not deserve to be murdered for his actions. (Hypothetical situation. Agree or disagree?)


Brown did a lot more than just walk down the street smoking stolen cigars. It was his future behavior that was what caused his death.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> And easily available education and training to everyone. People need skills for most jobs IMO.
> 
> And to break the cycle of 'career welfarers' perhaps programs could be introduced to take the education and training to them. If we want people to be motivated, they need to know they are valued enough to be given the opportunity and have that opportunity brought to them. Like charities bring their assistance.
> 
> ...


There use to be programs that did just that. Over the years they have been discontinued. Sadly. Apprentice(ships) should also be brought back into play. Communities will need to become involved on a larger level. Skills can be learned from a variety of avenues, not just from college. There are many jobs that are available, but lack skilled people to fill them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Your room would be a very unsafe place to be. All those law abiding gun holders shooting their weapons, who knows who would be shot. It would be much safer to cower under the table with the unarmed people, at least you would not be caught in the cross fire or shot by one of your law abiding gun holders.
> 
> Be honest, how many times in your life have you had to draw your gun and shoot another person, how many times have you been in a situation when someone goes on a rampage, be it with a gun or a knife or anything else. If you are honest you will say never. I am 74 years old and have never needed a gun to defend myself, I have never been confronted by anyone holding a gun, I have never been confronted by anyone threatening to shoot me.''
> 
> ...


EveMCCooke
Reagan and G.W.Bush were most happy when behaving wildly. They never outgrew their desire to play Cowboys and Indians. Australians got us pecked right. We have not progressed in that area at all.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Just to be perfectly clear, those are Designer's words that you picked out of the quote, NOT mine.


I'm sorry. It was difficult to tell where one comment ended and another began. I was having that problem on my post as well. I apologize!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The KKK will be coming in right after them.


HA! HA! I'm sure you think you're really funny.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It's hard when the gov't is telling you not to worry, we'll take care of you. That doesn't promote self sufficiency.


I agree! I think we should be taking care of ourselves. But the government should not be slanting the game in favor of their corporate cronies. Everyone deserves an even chance.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Brown did a lot more than just walk down the street smoking stolen cigars. It was his future behavior that was what caused his death.


I'm sorry, but he won't have any "future behavior". I think you meant " later"?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Anything to do with the Southern Poverty Law Center is Liberal


Yes, but what does that have to do with anything? I don't get it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCCooke
> Reagan and G.W.Bush were most happy when behaving wildly. They never outgrew their desire to play Cowboys and Indians. Australians got us pecked right. We have not progressed in that area at all.


???


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry. It was difficult to tell where one comment ended and another began. I was having that problem on my post as well. I apologize!


Apology accepted.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm sorry, but he won't have any "future behavior". I think you meant " later"?


I was referring to the immediate future - when Brown and Wilson got into the physical confrontation.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: I wouldn't want an army to keep the visitors away. Would a dirt track 100 miles long keep people away? Maybe fancy exhaust systems in the kitchens would work. I'd want some of my old friends around, and they're all good cooks. I can see it now. A bunch of fat, aged hippies completely focused on chores that support cooking and forgetting to darn their socks because they can't see their feet. :mrgreen:
> 
> On a lighter note, there's a pumpkin pie in the oven and it smells wonderful. We're having pizza for dinner and pumpkin pie for desert.


That sounds really good--is there room for one--no, make that five (husband, son, two pets)--at the table? 

I'm always at something of a loss when it comes to the meals immediately preceding a holiday feast. I really don't have time to fuss--don't want to spoil my family's appetite before the Big Spread--but also don't want to serve the same familiar foods we eat on a regular basis.

My mother had a neat way of dealing with this issue: on Christmas Eve she'd let each family members choose his or her favorite food and serve them all for dinner. Over the years this produced some really bizarre menus (take-out pizza, brownies, cole slaw, candied sweet potatoes, Cap'n Crunch cereal) but it sure was fun!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Oathkeepers and the KKK such good progressive (liberal) organizations. Just what Ferguson needs.


joeysomma
are you that dumb or just pretending?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> are you that dumb or just pretending?


(Whispering) maybe they ARE liberal to her.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't want my children and grandchildren to live in this kind of world. Just surviving isn't enough. Survival is right and good, but we must be willing to fight for change. The two go hand in hand.


Knitter from Nebraska
what do you think we "liberals" are fighting for? Change, so that we are all equal but I think we must wait for that until the bigoted Folks have bitten the Dust. The Youngens will do much better, not perfect, but certainly much better. About that I have no doubt.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> That sounds really good--is there room for one--no, make that five (husband, son, two pets)--at the table?
> 
> I'm always at something of a loss when it comes to the meals immediately preceding a holiday feast. I really don't have time to fuss--don't want to spoil my family's appetite before the Big Spread--but also don't want to serve the same familiar foods we eat on a regular basis.
> 
> My mother had a neat way of dealing with this issue: on Christmas Eve she'd let each family members choose his or her favorite food and serve them all for dinner. Over the years this produced some really bizarre menus (take-out pizza, brownies, cole slaw, candied sweet potatoes, Cap'n Crunch cereal) but it sure was fun!


No pets at the table! :twisted:

Your Mom's holiday dinners sound like fun! Who would have thought of that?

On Thanksgiving, starting at 10am I put out relish trays with everything you can imagine (including maraschino cherries and cinnamon apples for the kids). And we also have raspberry punch and orange slush. Then dinner is at one. That way, people have room in their stomachs for more.  Dinner is turkey, dressing, mashed potatoes, gravy, candied sweet potatoes, corn, green bean casserole, peas with pearl onions and bread rolls. Top it off a couple hours later with pumpkin pie, tiramisu and coffee. Yum! No one will be doing any shopping on Thanksgiving, because they won't be able to move.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know who said that police don't carry tasers. Many police departments do carry tasers.


LTL stated that when she was ''correcting' one of my posts. I didn't bother answering her as she wouldn't read it anyway.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> what do you think we "liberals" are fighting for? Change, so that we are all equal but I think we must wait for that until the bigoted Folks have bitten the Dust. The Youngens will do much better, not perfect, but certainly much better. About that I have no doubt.


It always seems to me that liberals want everybody to have the same. I want everyone to go out and get their own. I just want everyone to have an even playing field, so that those who are willing to work day and night will have more than everyone else. Those who are willing to work for just enough, will have just enough and those who are not willing to work, will be forced to, if they don't want to starve. Those who cannot work, will be taken care of, by all of us.

I believe in charity but I don't believe in entitlement. I believe in a flat tax rate so that everyone contributes something to the infrastructure and defense which benefits everyone. I also believe that the federal government has no business in daily affairs of men/ women. The power should be returned to the states. The growth of the federal government has led to massive corruption and theft from the people. We're leaving our children and grandchildren a massive debt that can never be repaid! And who benefited from that debt? The 1%! The people received the crumbs!


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Easy to get an indictment from a grand jury - except when the prosecutor does not want one. That guy "tried" the case by grand jury, definitely NOT the normal conduct of a prosecutor or the justice system. Wilson's account was not confronted or challenged in any way; no other possible explanations of the forensic evidence was presented as it WOULD have been at a real trial. The whole thing was a staged job intended to give the appearance of justice without jeopardizing the officer.


Heard something very similar from a couple of trial lawyers I know. The prosecutor tends to set the the stage so to say. Feds can still step in at this point.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> I hear the GOP is still open to still another hearing. ?????????


That I did not hear. What I have read is that a top GOP agreed it is time to move on. Also read the Tea Party is refocusing on immigration rather on fiscal austerity.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Officers do not carry Tasers, and that was explained to you months ago. Including their belt that holds their equipment, body armor and radio they are carrying an additional 22 pounds. So where and how will the Taser go?


Dallas police and those of the surrounding counties do carry tasers. Two police in the family unit.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Anything to do with the Southern Poverty Law Center is Liberal


joeysomma
you are really having trouble with the term: liberal, don't you. You should fall on your knees and give thanks that the Liberals who are a majority are so liberal as to tolerate you.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> No pets at the table! :twisted:
> 
> Your Mom's holiday dinners sound like fun! Who would have thought of that?
> 
> On Thanksgiving, starting at 10am I put out relish trays with everything you can imagine (including maraschino cherries and cinnamon apples for the kids). And we also have raspberry punch and orange slush. Then dinner is at one. That way, people have room in their stomachs for more.  Dinner is turkey, dressing, mashed potatoes, gravy, candied sweet potatoes, corn, green bean casserole, peas with pearl onions and bread rolls. Top it off a couple hours later with pumpkin pie, tiramisu and coffee. Yum! No one will be doing any shopping on Thanksgiving, because they won't be able to move.


As always your menus do you proud, Maid--that's an incredible feast.

Tomorrow we're having homemade chicken soup (the only kind my family will eat), turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, rolls, cranberry sauce, peas, breaded fried cauliflower (not traditional but DH loves it), mince pie, and Pavlova (also not traditional, but another KPer posted a recipe and I can't resist).

The only thing I haven't planned yet is some sort of greens. I love a good salad, but somehow I can't think anything that would fit the bill here.

Advice, anyone?


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> When was the review conducted GW? Is this review supplementary the original? (Sorry if I sound ignorant).


It was a 2 year investigationinto the Benghazi incident that was initiated by GOP representatives. It was found that there was no discrepancy between the actual events and those reported by the Obama administration. Pretty significant.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> As always your menus do you proud, Maid--that's an incredible feast.
> 
> Tomorrow we're having homemade chicken soup (the only kind my family will eat), turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, gravy, rolls, cranberry sauce, peas, breaded fried cauliflower (not traditional but DH loves it), mince pie, and Pavlova (also not traditional, but another KPer posted a recipe and I can't resist).
> 
> ...


Eat a salad on Friday.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

F


joeysomma said:


> So you want "all equal?" All equal to what? Poor? Lazy? Ignorant? Obama's change is doing just that. The last six years, haven't the rich got richer and the poor poorer? Middle class is shrinking.
> 
> At what level do you expect to be equal? What income level? What type of housing, should all have an I-phone? Wide screen TV? cable TV? internet? steak? designer clothes? new car?
> Who is going to pay for these? Why would they work? In your world everyone is equal, so why should they work?
> ...


How about equal opportunity? Might that be what she means? Equal education? No racism? Equal in the eyes of the law?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm not caught up on all the Ferguson posts, but has anyone read this?

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/26/3597322/justice-scalia-explains-what-was-wrong-with-the-ferguson-grand-jury/


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> F
> 
> How about equal opportunity? Might that be what she means? Equal education? No racism? Equal in the eyes of the law?


She doesn't grasp the concept of equality, Cookie. Because it is a CONCEPT - Joey only understands concrete things like cell phones, tax payments, wide screen TVs and the literal words on the pages of her bible.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I'm not caught up on all the Ferguson posts, but has anyone read this?
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/26/3597322/justice-scalia-explains-what-was-wrong-with-the-ferguson-grand-jury/


Wow. Coming from a Supreme Court justice - what a lot of other people have been saying since about 9:30 Monday evening. Thanks for the link.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> A person heart has NO business in this type of case.
> 
> I am sorry Brown died, I feel bad for his family. But he has to be responsible for his own actions, which led to his death.


Get thee to a remedial reading class! You're here expressing your opinion. Opinions often have something to do with a person's feelings. IMO, you are one cold-hearted waste of skin.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)




----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> She doesn't grasp the concept of equality, Cookie. Because it is a CONCEPT - Joey only understands concrete things like cell phones, tax payments, wide screen TVs and the literal words on the pages of her bible.


How many times am I going to ask myself, "why do I bother?" Hope springs eternal.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> That sounds really good--is there room for one--no, make that five (husband, son, two pets)--at the table?
> 
> I'm always at something of a loss when it comes to the meals immediately preceding a holiday feast. I really don't have time to fuss--don't want to spoil my family's appetite before the Big Spread--but also don't want to serve the same familiar foods we eat on a regular basis.
> 
> My mother had a neat way of dealing with this issue: on Christmas Eve she'd let each family members choose his or her favorite food and serve them all for dinner. Over the years this produced some really bizarre menus (take-out pizza, brownies, cole slaw, candied sweet potatoes, Cap'n Crunch cereal) but it sure was fun!


I like your mother's approach. I'd like to see that dinner table!! I am making dinner by merely dialing the phone tonight. None of us will eat much for breakfast, and our appetites will be alive and well when it's time to dig into the holiday meal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I like your mother's approach. I'd like to see that dinner table!! I am making dinner by merely dialing the phone tonight. None of us will eat much for breakfast, and our appetites will be alive and well when it's time to dig into the holiday meal.


Christmas is usually Italian at our home. My kids ask for lasagna or mannicotti and salads. It's all make ahead, so it gives me lots of time to enjoy the family.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It always seems to me that liberals want everybody to have the same. I want everyone to go out and get their own. I just want everyone to have an even playing field, so that those who are willing to work day and night will have more than everyone else. Those who are willing to work for just enough, will have just enough and those who are not willing to work, will be forced to, if they don't want to starve. Those who cannot work, will be taken care of, by all of us.
> 
> I believe in charity but I don't believe in entitlement. I believe in a flat tax rate so that everyone contributes something to the infrastructure and defense which benefits everyone. I also believe that the federal government has no business in daily affairs of men/ women. The power should be returned to the states. The growth of the federal government has led to massive corruption and theft from the people. We're leaving our children and grandchildren a massive debt that can never be repaid! And who benefited from that debt? The 1%! The people received the crumbs!


I think all of us want everyone to have an even playing field. I guess it is the difference in opinions about what an even playing field is.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So you want "all equal?" All equal to what? Poor? Lazy? Ignorant? Obama's change is doing just that. The last six years, haven't the rich got richer and the poor poorer? Middle class is shrinking.
> 
> At what level do you expect to be equal? What income level? What type of housing, should all have an I-phone? Wide screen TV? cable TV? internet? steak? designer clothes? new car?
> Who is going to pay for these? Why would they work? In your world everyone is equal, so why should they work?
> ...


Certainly your interpretation of it is stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid. Tell us how you would keep the middle class strong while maintaining a lower class that is so desperate it will work for peanuts.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> How many times am I going to ask myself, "why do I bother?" Hope springs eternal.


You wouldn't be you if you stopped trying. And Joey wouldn't be Joey if she didn't ignore or misinterpret what you said.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I'm not caught up on all the Ferguson posts, but has anyone read this?
> 
> http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2014/11/26/3597322/justice-scalia-explains-what-was-wrong-with-the-ferguson-grand-jury/


This is very clear, and absolutely relevant to the Ferguson case. Thanks for sharing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So you want "all equal?" All equal to what? Poor? Lazy? Ignorant? Obama's change is doing just that. The last six years, haven't the rich got richer and the poor poorer? Middle class is shrinking.
> 
> At what level do you expect to be equal? What income level? What type of housing, should all have an I-phone? Wide screen TV? cable TV? internet? steak? designer clothes? new car?
> Who is going to pay for these? Why would they work? In your world everyone is equal, so why should they work?
> I just bet you will not answer! As this whole idea is stupid, stupid, stupid!


joeysomma
oh I shall answer alright. You are that old record, broken, scratched and a pain to listen to. Fixing it is impossible, too far gone. Enjoy your miserable existence and work on your Christianity, it needs fixing badly, very badly. You may want to start with what Christianity means, that should keep you busy for some time.
Could you please tell us where we can get all of the things you mentioned for free? Would like to get in line. What the elf are you talking about?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So you want "all equal?" All equal to what? Poor? Lazy? Ignorant? Obama's change is doing just that. The last six years, haven't the rich got richer and the poor poorer? Middle class is shrinking.
> 
> At what level do you expect to be equal? What income level? What type of housing, should all have an I-phone? Wide screen TV? cable TV? internet? steak? designer clothes? new car?
> Who is going to pay for these? Why would they work? In your world everyone is equal, so why should they work?
> ...


Joeysomma
Would you explain the Christian concept of Jubilee? Thanks.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I think it is important on both sides for people to watch this video. here is the link.

I wonder if anything can or will be done about this.

http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/shocking-mistake-in-darren-wilson-grand-jury-364273731666


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I think it is important on both sides for people to watch this video. here is the link.
> 
> I wonder if anything can or will be done about this.
> 
> http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/shocking-mistake-in-darren-wilson-grand-jury-364273731666


There's a federal charge of wrongful death which could possibly be brought. That would take it completely out of the hands of the state's prosecutors. But I don't know whether it carries a sentence. I think that's how OJ was handled after his trial. He ended up paying a lot of money to the family of the young man he killed.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a federal charge of wrongful death which could possibly be brought. That would take it completely out of the hands of the state's prosecutors. But I don't know whether it carries a sentence. I think that's how OJ was handled after his trial. He ended up paying a lot of money to the family of the young man he killed.


I think you are thinking about a civil suit but you cannot get blood from a turnip. Simpson was taken down by a criminal suit - he stole back trophies he sold to dealers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a federal charge of wrongful death which could possibly be brought. That would take it completely out of the hands of the state's prosecutors. But I don't know whether it carries a sentence. I think that's how OJ was handled after his trial. He ended up paying a lot of money to the family of the young man he killed.


I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges??? I think he should be tried by a jury where ALL of the evidence is heard, not just the cherry picked evidence. If he is then found innocent, so be it! I just don't think that the grand jury hearing was non biased.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges??? I think he should be tried by a jury where ALL of the evidence is heard, not just the cherry picked evidence. If he is then found innocent, so be it! I just don't think that the grand jury hearing was non biased.


I agree.

Since no charges were brought, wouldn't NEW evidence permit him to be charged and tried?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I agree.
> 
> Since no charges were brought, wouldn't NEW evidence permit him to be charged and tried?


I don't think they'll find any "new" evidence. The problem lies in the way the evidence was presented. From what I understand, this hearing was not conducted in the manner in which grand jury hearings are normally conducted. That alone, should be cause for concern. We need to be asking WHY?

The thing that strikes me the most is that Wilson fired his gun 12 times! If he really felt threatened by an UNARMED individual, why not just shoot him once in the leg? That would have ended the threat of being beaten. IMO, he was angry and out of control. I expect more from our police officers! Being a police officer does not give one the right of execution! Talk about overkill!!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges???


I'm not sure whether being tried (no matter what the outcome) prevents one from being slammed with federal charges. Lynchers and bomb throwers during Civil Rights era were all too often tried and found "not guilty" by small-town all-white juries despite reams of incriminating evidence, and that's when the government stepped in and began inditing and trying them on federal charges.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think they'll find any "new" evidence. The problem lies in the way the evidence was presented. From what I understand, this hearing was not conducted in the manner in which grand jury hearings are normally conducted. That alone, should be cause for concern. We need to be asking WHY?
> 
> The thing that strikes me the most is that Wilson fired his gun 12 times! If he really felt threatened by an UNARMED individual, why not just shoot him once in the leg? That would have ended the threat of being beaten. IMO, he was angry and out of control. I expect more from our police officers! Being a police officer does not give one the right of execution! Talk about overkill!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have been told from NYC gunslingers that it is hard to aim for limbs. Police are trained to shoot at the 'body mass".


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges??? I think he should be tried by a jury where ALL of the evidence is heard, not just the cherry picked evidence. If he is then found innocent, so be it! I just don't think that the grand jury hearing was non biased.


I don't know whether double jeopardy holds when the charges are different (I don't think it would hold then - see Al Capone) or the jurisdiction has changed, e.g., from state to federal. You're right about OJ, and I hope you're right about the rest.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have been told from NYC gunslingers that it is hard to aim for limbs. Police are trained to shoot at the 'body mass".


NYC gunslingers? I shore would like to meet me one o' those, pardner.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think they'll find any "new" evidence. The problem lies in the way the evidence was presented. From what I understand, this hearing was not conducted in the manner in which grand jury hearings are normally conducted. That alone, should be cause for concern. We need to be asking WHY?


There were 12 people on the jury and this wasn't the first grand jury they were called upon to participate in. Give the jury members credit for knowing what they are doing and giving the correct response after reviewing all of the information and evidence presented to them. The prosecutor might have an agenda, but what indicates that grand jury did?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why the libs can't accept the Grand Jury's decision? This is our Justice system at work. I guess they prefer the anarchy on display all over the US this week. Are they forcing Obama to declare Martial Law and suspend the Constitution? Remember Holder said, Never let a good Crisis go to waste."


What an incredibly stupid thing to say. There are millions who think this was handled very badly. Don't politicize it.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What an incredibly stupid thing to say. There are millions who think this was handled very badly. Don't politicize it.


Not her first attempt to drag Obama into it. She posted a nasty political cartoon saying that the racial problems in this country are a result of Obama. Stupid on top of stupid.

But then, it's Joey.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> _Since the day that Michael Brown died (Aug 9, 2014), another 981 Black Missourians have died; 9 per day, every day since then. These Black Missourians were unarmed, innocent, and had no ability to defend themselves and died in plain sight. But there is no outrage, no riots, not one protest._


joeysomma
you are making our point that changes are desperately needed and therefore the protests all over the country. We are not just hoping for change, we will not stop until change takes place.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> _Since the day that Michael Brown died (Aug 9, 2014), another 981 Black Missourians have died; 9 per day, every day since then. These Black Missourians were unarmed, innocent, and had no ability to defend themselves and died in plain sight. But there is no outrage, no riots, not one protest._


That is so terrible. Makes me want to cry!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges??? I think he should be tried by a jury where ALL of the evidence is heard, not just the cherry picked evidence. If he is then found innocent, so be it! I just don't think that the grand jury hearing was non biased.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> So nice you agree with me. Can I count on you to march with me in the next pro-life rally in MO?


I'll go with you if pro-life stands for black teenaged boys' lives.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I do not believe they are part of the 981 lives lost.


But they are still part of life which is very valuable.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> What about the 981 valuable lives that were lost and NOBODY seemed to care?


You care. I am assuming you are referring to abortions. It is the law of the land for so many decades that public opinion has moved on. Those 981 would have had the same outcoming with a straight knitting needle #8 instead of a safe procedure. Move on, Mrs. Somma. The fight is long over. You are like the Japanese soldiers found hiding in caves 20 years after WW2 ended.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> you are making our point that changes are desperately needed and therefore the protests all over the country. We are not just hoping for change, we will not stop until change takes place.


Joey is not talking about cognizant human beings with names and lives - she's talking about embryos. This is an outrageously false equivalency and indicates a warped mentality. Joey obviously thinks a grown, thinking, feeling, human being with relationships and plans for the future is no different from a 1/2" long embryo who has no cognition, feelings or self-awareness.

Just harping again on one of her favorite agenda items, wanting to impose her religious beliefs on women she feels superior to.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Why is the Media Hiding This Fact About the Ferguson Prosecuting Attorney?

November 29, 2014 By Matthew Burke
Robert McCulloch Al Sharpton
The reaction of the Ferguson decision has largely fallen upon political ideological lines, with progressive leftist Democrats, who are beginning to lose their base of minority supporters who realize that their slavish dependency trap over the decades has resulted in them being played into living in poverty and depression, and conservative Republicans who believe that justice was served, as all physical and forensic evidence supported police officer Darren Wilsons account that he acted in self-defense in the shooting death of Michael Brown, who had attacked the officer and tried to wrestle away his firearm.

One side story that has been almost completely ignored by most of the leftstream media, at least as a point of emphasis, that definitely would have been a focus if he was a Republican, is that St. Louis County Prosecuting Attorney Robert McCulloch, who has been roundly ridiculed and demonized by Democrat Party race hustlers like Al Sharpton, Eric Holder and Barack Obama, just happens to be a registered Democrat, as reported by CBS News, buried deeply in the eighth paragraph.

Of course, McCullochs political affiliation shouldnt be a big deal. The rule of law should be supreme and bipartisan in a perfect world.

However, it should be noted that since McCulloch is being unfairly characterized as a racist, almost exclusively by Democrats, it sort of goes against the Dems own talking points that only Republicans can possibly be racist, in spite of the Democrat Partys shameful long-term adherence to institutionalized racism, including the KKK, Jim Crow laws, the destruction of the black family, and slavery itself.

Someone should ask the race hustlers how its possible for Democrat McCulloch to be racist in the Michael Brown decision, which was made by a grand jury after reviewing all the evidence, when hes not a Republican.

Then stand back while their collective heads explode.

You can rest assured that if McCulloch was a Republican, the leftstream media would be using it as prima facie evidence to prove that his party affiliation guarantees his racism, and therefore the unjust ruling in the Michael Brown case in Ferguson.

h/t: The Weekly Standard

Matthew Burke
About Matthew Burke

Matthew Burke is a former Financial Advisor/Planner for 24 years. He was a 2010 Constitutional Conservative candidate for U.S. Congress in Washington State. View all Posts by Matthew Burke

Story of the Day
ZObama
King Obama Threatens to Veto BI-PARTISAN Pro-Business Legislation

President Obama is the most anti-business president this nation has ever encountered. As America hemorrhages money and we dig ourselves further and further into debt to the tune of $18 trillion, the  [Continue Reading]


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

The tax breaks in question would amount to $440 billion of lost revenue over ten years and become PERMANENT.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

CB said:

"Of course, McCullochs political affiliation shouldnt be a big deal. The rule of law should be supreme and bipartisan in a perfect world"

So look who is making it a big deal. Democrats can be racists - just like a lot of Christians. As demonstrated repeatedly on KP.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There were 12 people on the jury and this wasn't the first grand jury they were called upon to participate in. Give the jury members credit for knowing what they are doing and giving the correct response after reviewing all of the information and evidence presented to them. The prosecutor might have an agenda, but what indicates that grand jury did?


I think she meant "grand jury" as a process, not as the twelve individuals. It's the prosecutor who leads the jury. In this case they seem to have been given obsolete instructions, and there were other irregularities. I don't think Nebraska has a problem with the jurors, only with the process.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> What tax breaks are you talking about?
> 
> I guess Obama will not go along with the House discussions to extent the budget and taxes since the credits or tax breaks would not be available to the illegals. But then, I thought Obama wants illegals to PAY taxes and not get refunds.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> There were 12 people on the jury and this wasn't the first grand jury they were called upon to participate in. Give the jury members credit for knowing what they are doing and giving the correct response after reviewing all of the information and evidence presented to them. The prosecutor might have an agenda, but what indicates that grand jury did?


It's called influence! You cannot tell me that a grand jury is not influenced by the prosecutor. There was no attorney representing the other side! All they had to go on, was what the prosecutors told them. The case put forth, was slanted in favor of the officer. The grand jury was told right up front that what the officer did, was legal. They come into the court not knowing the law. They rely upon the prosecutor and they were manipulated! What's wrong with letting a jury hear non biased information?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why the libs can't accept the Grand Jury's decision? This is our Justice system at work. I guess they prefer the anarchy on display all over the US this week. Are they forcing Obama to declare Martial Law and suspend the Constitution? Remember Holder said, Never let a good Crisis go to waste."


We're not in a martial law situation. That's exaggeration! I'm not a lib but I think it was a farce! The people are rightfully outraged! Our police are becoming as dangerous as the criminals. We need to demand that the government stop militarizing our police!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So nice you agree with me. Can I count on you to march with me in the next pro-life rally in MO?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Joey is not talking about cognizant human beings with names and lives - she's talking about embryos. This is an outrageously false equivalency and indicates a warped mentality. Joey obviously thinks a grown, thinking, feeling, human being with relationships and plans for the future is no different from a 1/2" long embryo who has no cognition, feelings or self-awareness.
> 
> Just harping again on one of her favorite agenda items, wanting to impose her religious beliefs on women she feels superior to.


It's really sad that you've been deceived into thinking abortion only affects 1/2" long embryos. You really should do some research into this. The reality is far different.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why the libs can't accept the Grand Jury's decision? This is our Justice system at work. I guess they prefer the anarchy on display all over the US this week. Are they forcing Obama to declare Martial Law and suspend the Constitution? Remember Holder said, Never let a good Crisis go to waste."


Are you totally insane?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> But they are still part of life which is very valuable.


Not if they're already alive. She couldn't care less about the post-born.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you totally insane?


Do you need to ask?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> You care. I am assuming you are referring to abortions. It is the law of the land for so many decades that public opinion has moved on. Those 981 would have had the same outcoming with a straight knitting needle #8 instead of a safe procedure. Move on, Mrs. Somma. The fight is long over. You are like the Japanese soldiers found hiding in caves 20 years after WW2 ended.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Joey is not talking about cognizant human beings with names and lives - she's talking about embryos. This is an outrageously false equivalency and indicates a warped mentality. Joey obviously thinks a grown, thinking, feeling, human being with relationships and plans for the future is no different from a 1/2" long embryo who has no cognition, feelings or self-awareness.
> 
> Just harping again on one of her favorite agenda items, wanting to impose her religious beliefs on women she feels superior to.


You're wrong, D. Joey obviously thinks a grown, thinking, feeling, human being with relationships and plans for the future is _unimportant_ compared to a 1/2" long embryo who has no cognition, feelings or self-awareness.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's really sad that you've been deceived into thinking abortion only affects 1/2" long embryos. You really should do some research into this. The reality is far different.


90% of abortions are done in the first trimester. Restrictive laws are affecting women's ability to have early abortions.

Those who are trying to outlaw abortion only succeed in outlawing SAFE abortions. They have always been done and always will be done. If it were up to me, they would never be necessary or wanted, but they are and all of the judgmental posturing by religious groups won't change that.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > Are you totally insane?
> ...


It's just that sometimes Joey sounds somewhat sane, so I was surprised at this total flight from reality.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's just that sometimes Joey sounds somewhat sane, so I was surprised at this total flight from reality.


I'm more surprised when she sounds somewhat sane.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'm more surprised when she sounds somewhat sane.


Okay, I'm convinced. But have you met Winding Road?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'm convinced. But have you met Winding Road?


I've had the dis-pleasure, with her scattergun approach to flinging insults and inane comments. I think she has a drinking problem, since she gets more and more incoherent as the day wears on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I've had the dis-pleasure, with her scattergun approach to flinging insults and inane comments. I think she has a drinking problem, since she gets more and more incoherent as the day wears on.


I've noticed that, too, but it's also something that happens with Alzheimer's, and maybe dementia in general.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> 90% of abortions are done in the first trimester. Restrictive laws are affecting women's ability to have early abortions.
> 
> Those who are trying to outlaw abortion only succeed in outlawing SAFE abortions. They have always been done and always will be done. If it were up to me, they would never be necessary or wanted, but they are and all of the judgmental posturing by religious groups won't change that.


According to the latest figures I could find (2011), more than 144,000 abortions took place after 12 weeks. More than 18,000 took place after 21 weeks! I KNOW absolutely, without a doubt, that these are BABIES!!! I held three of them!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I've had the dis-pleasure, with her scattergun approach to flinging insults and inane comments. I think she has a drinking problem, since she gets more and more incoherent as the day wears on.


 :thumbup: :roll: :shock: :shock: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> According to the latest figures I could find (2011), more than 144,000 abortions took place after 12 weeks. More than 18,000 took place after 21 weeks! I KNOW absolutely, without a doubt, that these are BABIES!!! I held three of them!


Third trimester abortions are horrible. The more developed the fetus, the worse it is and I understand your feelings about this. I personally don't think I could ever have an abortion (though it doesn't apply at this stage in my life). But women DO abort. It is their choice and their body and making it illegal or impossible to obtain legally (shutting down clinics) won't change that fact.

The best we can do is make birth control and accurate education universally available to reduce this terrible reality. You know what an uproar many on this thread have raised over free birth control. I would MUCH prefer to help pay for that with my taxes than the alternative.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I believe that the statutes and level of proof for a Federal trial are very high. I hope there is a brave and smart prosecutor ready to take it on. It certainly seems there is collusion in this case. Lies, false testimony, and many other examples of an unfair situation indicating the fears are true.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not sure if it makes a difference or not but remember, OJ had already been tried. I'm not sure what effect double jeopardy had on his case. But officer Wilson has not been tried. I would think that would allow the feds to bring criminal charges??? I think he should be tried by a jury where ALL of the evidence is heard, not just the cherry picked evidence. If he is then found innocent, so be it! I just don't think that the grand jury hearing was non biased.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think that's true. Now all they need is a new prosecutor with nothing to hide.



DGreen said:


> I agree.
> 
> Since no charges were brought, wouldn't NEW evidence permit him to be charged and tried?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't think they'll find any "new" evidence. The problem lies in the way the evidence was presented. From what I understand, this hearing was not conducted in the manner in which grand jury hearings are normally conducted. That alone, should be cause for concern. We need to be asking WHY?
> 
> The thing that strikes me the most is that Wilson fired his gun 12 times! If he really felt threatened by an UNARMED individual, why not just shoot him once in the leg? That would have ended the threat of being beaten. IMO, he was angry and out of control. I expect more from our police officers! Being a police officer does not give one the right of execution! Talk about overkill!!!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Why stop someone for walking down the middle of the street?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same reason they don't aim for the head. They say if you pull your gun, you shoot to kill. From gunslingers in the Wild West.



SQM said:


> I have been told from NYC gunslingers that it is hard to aim for limbs. Police are trained to shoot at the 'body mass".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> NYC gunslingers? I shore would like to meet me one o' those, pardner.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Might be the police or military but I laughed at your comment.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What an incredibly stupid thing to say. There are millions who think this was handled very badly. Don't politicize it.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: If this keeps up, the protests will have many new members.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You've proven the point. Thank you. The protests are not just for Michael Brown. They are about the fear that this murder is but one example of a systemic problem.



joeysomma said:


> _Since the day that Michael Brown died (Aug 9, 2014), another 981 Black Missourians have died; 9 per day, every day since then. These Black Missourians were unarmed, innocent, and had no ability to defend themselves and died in plain sight. But there is no outrage, no riots, not one protest._


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> you are making our point that changes are desperately needed and therefore the protests all over the country. We are not just hoping for change, we will not stop until change takes place.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Get your sneakers ready. We'll all be marching before this is over.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We may all be there but on different sides of the street.



SQM said:


> I'll go with you if pro-life stands for black teenaged boys' lives.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> I'll go with you if pro-life stands for black teenaged boys' lives.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> You care. I am assuming you are referring to abortions. It is the law of the land for so many decades that public opinion has moved on. Those 981 would have had the same outcoming with a straight knitting needle #8 instead of a safe procedure. Move on, Mrs. Somma. The fight is long over. You are like the Japanese soldiers found hiding in caves 20 years after WW2 ended.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel that the underlying intention is to keep the focus away from guns, civil rights etc.

"Don't look behind the curtain." Wizard of OZ



DGreen said:


> Joey is not talking about cognizant human beings with names and lives - she's talking about embryos. This is an outrageously false equivalency and indicates a warped mentality. Joey obviously thinks a grown, thinking, feeling, human being with relationships and plans for the future is no different from a 1/2" long embryo who has no cognition, feelings or self-awareness.
> 
> Just harping again on one of her favorite agenda items, wanting to impose her religious beliefs on women she feels superior to.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

See the Teddy Bear thread if you dare. Get the jacket with long-sleeves that tie in the back.



Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'm convinced. But have you met Winding Road?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: Might be the police or military but I laughed at your comment.


It's the word "gunslinger." I've never heard that used outside of Westerns.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Okay Bright Green - what the heck is that animal?

Plus I adore carousels and I hope you keep your avatar for awhile.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think it's called a horse, City Slicker.



SQM said:


> Okay Bright Green - what the heck is that animal?
> 
> Plus I adore carousels and I hope you keep your avatar for awhile.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Ms. Graceful Tiger,

A strange animal was posted and it certainly is not a horse. Go back a few pages and tell me what it is.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ms Slow and Cautious Sloth, I went there before I wrote. This is up to Greeny. What is that strange animal on the carousel?



SQM said:


> Ms. Graceful Tiger,
> 
> A strange animal was posted and it certainly is not a horse. Go back a few pages and tell me what it is.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Ms Slow and Cautious Sloth, I went there before I wrote. This is up to Greeny. What is that strange animal on the carousel?


SQM means this animal: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-298131-148.html#6436671
If that thing is a horse, then I'm a monkey's uncle.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why the libs can't accept the Grand Jury's decision? This is our Justice system at work. I guess they prefer the anarchy on display all over the US this week. Are they forcing Obama to declare Martial Law and suspend the Constitution? Remember Holder said, Never let a good Crisis go to waste."


I'll ignore your snark and just ask a question: If you can't accept the tens of millions of voters' decisions in the last two presidential elections, why would you think the decision of twelve people in Ferguson is at all meaningful?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lemur? Sorry. I thought SQM meant Greeny's avatar on the carousel. Old Timer's Disease.



Poor Purl said:


> SQM means this animal: http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-298131-148.html#6436671
> If that thing is a horse, then I'm a monkey's uncle.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent question.



Poor Purl said:


> I'll ignore your snark and just ask a question: If you can't accept the tens of millions of voters' decisions in the last two presidential elections, why would you think the decision of twelve people in Ferguson is at all meaningful?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Okay Bright Green - what the heck is that animal?
> 
> Plus I adore carousels and I hope you keep your avatar for awhile.


Here's a bigger photo. Of the carousel horse.

Heck if I know what that thing is in the meme.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Does anyone know what the other animal is? My guess is lemur. 

A horse is a horse, of course, of course. Unless it's .........


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Does anyone know what the other animal is? My guess is lemur.
> 
> A horse is a horse, of course, of course. Unless it's .........


It is a lemur.

The other photo, of course.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> There were 12 people on the jury and this wasn't the first grand jury they were called upon to participate in. Give the jury members credit for knowing what they are doing and giving the correct response after reviewing all of the information and evidence presented to them. The prosecutor might have an agenda, but what indicates that grand jury did?


Very well stated.

Let's also remember that there was a mob protesting at the Walmart in Ferguson this week. Because of that, the store closed, people could not work, people could not shop.....what does that have to do with shooting of Michael Brown? Answer.......NOTHING. It just proves that the mob that has looted, bombed, burned, and destroyed Ferguson has a different agenda, and it is not about Michael Brown. They do not care about Ferguson and because of them it is now going to be a ghost town.

Just another example of Liberal compassion for the people that work for a living.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So nice you agree with me. Can I count on you to march with me in the next pro-life rally in MO?


joeysomma
I am pro-woman and therefore pro-choice.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> But they are still part of life which is very valuable.


SQM
that is not how pro-lifers see it. They care about the fetus not those born into a bigoted world.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen

isn't that the truth.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's called influence! You cannot tell me that a grand jury is not influenced by the prosecutor. There was no attorney representing the other side! All they had to go on, was what the prosecutors told them. The case put forth, was slanted in favor of the officer. The grand jury was told right up front that what the officer did, was legal. They come into the court not knowing the law. They rely upon the prosecutor and they were manipulated! What's wrong with letting a jury hear non biased information?


Knitter from Nebraska
...because justice was not to be reached. By the way, I hope that Officer Wilson will take time to grow up. His interview revealed that he is a very immature individual. IF he had the thoughts (during the encounter with the Victim) he said he had, he is not a good candidate to be on the Police Force. He is thinking in low Grade grade level.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Why stop someone for walking down the middle of the street?


damemary
what is so disturbing is how the Officer addressed this issue. I am sure if he had approached the Victim in a decent manner, he would have moved to the sidewalk.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Very well stated.
> 
> Let's also remember that there was a mob protesting at the Walmart in Ferguson this week. Because of that, the store closed, people could not work, people could not shop.....what does that have to do with shooting of Michael Brown? Answer.......NOTHING. It just proves that the mob that has looted, bombed, burned, and destroyed Ferguson has a different agenda, and it is not about Michael Brown. They do not care about Ferguson and because of them it is now going to be a ghost town.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Does anyone know what the other animal is? My guess is lemur.
> 
> A horse is a horse, of course, of course. Unless it's .........


Not fair. You'll get us started.

Have you seen For those of us who remember? http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-301669-1.html Now you can really get started.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Very well stated.
> 
> Let's also remember that there was a mob protesting at the Walmart in Ferguson this week. Because of that, the store closed, people could not work, people could not shop.....what does that have to do with shooting of Michael Brown? Answer.......NOTHING. It just proves that the mob that has looted, bombed, burned, and destroyed Ferguson has a different agenda, and it is not about Michael Brown. They do not care about Ferguson and because of them it is now going to be a ghost town.
> 
> Just another example of Liberal compassion for the people that work for a living.


Liberals would have preferred that Walmart give their workers Thanksgiving off, instead of threatening to fire them if they didn't come to work. That's an example of Conservative family values.

We haven't heard what you have to say about campus rape in your state. You're Number 1.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Liberals would have preferred that Walmart give their workers Thanksgiving off, instead of threatening to fire them if they didn't come to work. That's an example of Conservative family values.
> 
> We haven't heard what you have to say about campus rape in your state. You're Number 1.


The conservatives will blame the victims for 
Wearing the wrong clothes.
Attending a frat party
DRINKING at a frat party
Behaving in seductive ways
Being out after dark

And if one got pregnant - they will insist she carry the pregnancy to term to remind her daily and even hourly of her evil ways.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The conservatives will blame the victims for
> Wearing the wrong clothes.
> Attending a frat party
> DRINKING at a frat party
> ...


I suppose you're right, though I still wonder what LTL would say. She never said anything when Virginia Governor Ultrasound was convicted of a few felonies and - like any Southern gentleman - blamed his wife.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I do know my animals. Off to the zoo. How about you?



DGreen said:


> It is a lemur.
> 
> The other photo, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> I am pro-woman and therefore pro-choice.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree 100%. Remember when police were supposed to be Peace Officers?



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> what is so disturbing is how the Officer addressed this issue. I am sure if he had approached the Victim in a decent manner, he would have moved to the sidewalk.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember each and every one. Yes I dye my hair thinking it makes me feel younger.



Poor Purl said:


> Not fair. You'll get us started.
> 
> Have you seen For those of us who remember? http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-301669-1.html Now you can really get started.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That attitude infuriates me. You probably noticed.



DGreen said:


> The conservatives will blame the victims for
> Wearing the wrong clothes.
> Attending a frat party
> DRINKING at a frat party
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I remember each and every one. Yes I dye my hair thinking it makes me feel younger.


If it makes you feel younger, that's wonderful. But does it make you look younger?

Which reminds me: I heard Audrey Hepburn singing a song from Funny Face last night. She had a sweet little voice - I never thought of her as a singer.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> What an incredibly stupid thing to say. There are millions who think this was handled very badly. Don't politicize it.


Handled badly is one thing. Burning down the town, disrupting traffic, stopping others from going about their day/business is another. It's already been politicized.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's called influence! You cannot tell me that a grand jury is not influenced by the prosecutor. There was no attorney representing the other side! All they had to go on, was what the prosecutors told them. The case put forth, was slanted in favor of the officer. The grand jury was told right up front that what the officer did, was legal. They come into the court not knowing the law. They rely upon the prosecutor and they were manipulated! What's wrong with letting a jury hear non biased information?


Of course there was no attorney representing the other side. Even if the "other side" was allowed in the courtroom, they wouldn't be allowed to ask any questions or present any evidence. In your opinion they were manipulated. The grand jury went through hours and hours of interviews and were allowed to ask questions about the evidence and about the witnesses. Again, why not give the jury the benefit of the doubt and trust they came to the conclusion based on the information provided to them. All 12 members would not be manipulated.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Marnie Nixon dubbed her voice. My Fair Lady?

I'm thinking of letting the grey grow in just to see.



Poor Purl said:


> If it makes you feel younger, that's wonderful. But does it make you look younger?
> 
> Which reminds me: I heard Audrey Hepburn singing a song from Funny Face last night. She had a sweet little voice - I never thought of her as a singer.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Very well stated.
> 
> Let's also remember that there was a mob protesting at the Walmart in Ferguson this week. Because of that, the store closed, people could not work, people could not shop.....what does that have to do with shooting of Michael Brown? Answer.......NOTHING. It just proves that the mob that has looted, bombed, burned, and destroyed Ferguson has a different agenda, and it is not about Michael Brown. They do not care about Ferguson and because of them it is now going to be a ghost town.
> 
> Just another example of Liberal compassion for the people that work for a living.


Not to mention all the other protests across the country that involved violence, arrests and preventing people from going about their business. These protests also prevented first responders from doing their jobs. I hope none of the protesters' loved ones required a paramedic, ambulance or the fire department during their rioting. I'd bet that 3/4 of the protesters had no idea what they were supposed to be protesting. Shades of the "Occupy" protests last year.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Liberals would have preferred that Walmart give their workers Thanksgiving off, instead of threatening to fire them if they didn't come to work. That's an example of Conservative family values.
> 
> We haven't heard what you have to say about campus rape in your state. You're Number 1.


Would all you liberals prefer that all stores, restaurants, convenience stores, movie theaters, amusement parks, public transportation, etc, also be closed? I wonder how many of these employees were threatened to be fired if they didn't show up? Why do you only pick on WalMart?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not to mention all the other protests across the country that involved violence, arrests and preventing people from going about their business. These protests also prevented first responders from doing their jobs. I hope none of the protesters' loved ones required a paramedic, ambulance or the fire department during their rioting. I'd bet that 3/4 of the protesters had no idea what they were supposed to be protesting. Shades of the "Occupy" protests last year.


Shades of Chris Christie's tantrum on the George Washington Bridge. He caused a lot more problems than Occupy did.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Would all you liberals prefer that all stores, restaurants, convenience stores, movie theaters, amusement parks, public transportation, etc, also be closed? I wonder how many of these employees were threatened to be fired if they didn't show up? Why do you only pick on WalMart?


Maybe all businesses should be closed on important holidays - it used to be that way. Don't you remember when stores were only open 6 days a week?

No, of course I (I speak only for myself, not for "all you liberals" ) would want any business that chose to stay open to be permitted to. And if the day is so important to that business, they ought to pay workers extra to come in, and expect that only workers who wanted the hours would work.

Walmart has enormous influence on how business operates in smaller towns, or even whether businesses are able to continue operation. They have a reputation for putting mom-and-pop stores out of business and for squeezing every last cent out of their workers and their locale (all revenue goes out to Bentonville daily). You may think I'm unfair to poor Walmart. But really! Do they need you to stick up for them?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe all businesses should be closed on important holidays - it used to be that way. Don't you remember when stores were only open 6 days a week?
> 
> No, of course I (I speak only for myself, not for "all you liberals" ) would want any business that chose to stay open to be permitted to. And if the day is so important to that business, they ought to pay workers extra to come in, and expect that only workers who wanted the hours would work.
> 
> Walmart has enormous influence on how business operates in smaller towns, or even whether businesses are able to continue operation. They have a reputation for putting mom-and-pop stores out of business and for squeezing every last cent out of their workers and their locale (all revenue goes out to Bentonville daily). You may think I'm unfair to poor Walmart. But really! Do they need you to stick up for them?


Workers use to get paid holiday wages and "volunteered" to work on holidays. That was before store days and hours were changed. That change was mostly for the convenience of the working person, especially women. Now what was once holiday hours are now someone's regular hours.

Maybe the blame should be put on the small towns/cities municipal councils/committees for allowing Walmart to do business in their towns. Perhaps these small businesses were run out of town by WalMart, but business is about competition, as well as profit, so who is to say how long these businesses would have stayed in business with out WalMart being their excuse.

You being unfair to poor WalMart - Nah, you're just repeating the bash WalMart talking points. Nothing original there.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Not to mention all the other protests across the country that involved violence, arrests and preventing people from going about their business. These protests also prevented first responders from doing their jobs. I hope none of the protesters' loved ones required a paramedic, ambulance or the fire department during their rioting. I'd bet that 3/4 of the protesters had no idea what they were supposed to be protesting. Shades of the "Occupy" protests last year.


There was very little violence associated with the protests, so saying "during their rioting" is not accurate or warranted. But then, you obviously don't think they have any reason to be outraged at the very real problems that prompted the demonstrations - and it isn't just Michael Brown. To say 3/4 don't even know what they are protesting? Absurd statement.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Workers use to get paid holiday wages and "volunteered" to work on holidays. That was before store days and hours were changed. That change was mostly for the convenience of the working person, especially women. Now what was once holiday hours are now someone's regular hours.


 But wouldn't you, as a conservative, want to go back to the policies of that time, when workers were treated like human beings, not like machines?



> Maybe the blame should be put on the small towns/cities municipal councils/committees for allowing Walmart to do business in their towns. Perhaps these small businesses were run out of town by WalMart, but business is about competition, as well as profit, so who is to say how long these businesses would have stayed in business with out WalMart being their excuse.
> 
> You being unfair to poor WalMart - Nah, you're just repeating the bash WalMart talking points. Nothing original there.


I had something to say in agreement with your next-to-last paragraph, but you had to get in your snark at the end. I didn't know I was supposed to be original; you never are.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> There was very little violence associated with the protests, so saying "during their rioting" is not accurate or warranted. But then, you obviously don't think they have any reason to be outraged at the very real problems that prompted the demonstrations - and it isn't just Michael Brown. To say 3/4 don't even know what they are protesting? Absurd statement.


Careful. If you make Solow look bad, she'll cry that you're abusive.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you totally insane?


Joeysomma is indeed completely insane. How can I count the ways? I can't. What stands out for me, at least, is how she professes to be a Christian but hasn't got a Christian bone in her body. I wish she'd take her crocks of s**t and bugger off. :thumbdown:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> You've proven the point. Thank you. The protests are not just for Michael Brown. They are about the fear that this murder is but one example of a systemic problem.


I shortened your post a bit, but I don't think I ruined your point. As I said recently, I believe we are seeing the birth of the new Civil Rights Movement, and it ain't gonna be pretty, and one of its core beliefs will be what Malcolm X said, "by any means necessary".


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I remember each and every one. Yes I dye my hair thinking it makes me feel younger.


I used to then one day I decided to stop it. I have never looked back. I find It didn't make me feel older and both of us liked it. I am grey not white - I wish I had that beautiful white that some women have. However, I am me, and I don't wear much makeup either. The wrinkles have been earned I figure and I am not worried at all about them. I turned grey in 2009 and 2011 by the time Pat got out of the hospital I was completely grey.

I never fought growing old as I always felt I didn't have any choice. My Dad fought it his whole life and wouldn't accept it . He made his own life miserable and was very frustrated and unhappy when he was growing old. I learned a lesson from him.

I don't mind showing my age- and don't worry about my age. as there is not a darned thing I can do about it. My BFF (went to school together) still dyes her hair and hates to be getting old. She worries constantly -- doesn't change anything and she thinks I am crazy and that I should worry about what people think. Different strokes for different folks/


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It was just announced on CNN that a GOP representative - a woman, who does PR , said some negative things about the Obama girls and it is raising problems all over. It sounds as if it will backfire and she might l ose her job, as children of Presidents are supposed to be safe from negative things while they are underage. 

I didn't hear what she tweeted but it sounds like some personal attack. Sounds as if not just Democrats are upset but some Republicans too. It just came on CNN.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> ...because justice was not to be reached. By the way, I hope that Officer Wilson will take time to grow up. His interview revealed that he is a very immature individual. IF he had the thoughts (during the encounter with the Victim) he said he had, he is not a good candidate to be on the Police Force. He is thinking in low Grade grade level.


Please, please, let everyone here stop using the word justice. Justice and the Law are distant cousins. There wasn't any justice for Michal Brown and there will never be any, no matter how much any of us wish it were otherwise.

Officer Wilson wigged out. He was scared to death when he didn't need to be. He's a murderer, He was a rotten police officer, and now he's resigned from the Ferguson Police Department. Really, he had choice. Don't worry, however, he will never be a police no other office anywhere in this country again.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> ...because justice was not to be reached. By the way, I hope that Officer Wilson will take time to grow up. His interview revealed that he is a very immature individual. IF he had the thoughts (during the encounter with the Victim) he said he had, he is not a good candidate to be on the Police Force. He is thinking in low Grade grade level.


Please, please, let everyone here stop using the word justice when the world 'law" is the proper word.. Justice and the Law are distant cousins. There wasn't any justice for Michal Brown and there will never be any, no matter how much any of us wish it were otherwise.
n
Officer Wilson wigged out. He was scared to death when he didn't need to be. He's a murderer. He was a rotten police officer, and now he's resigned from the Ferguson Police Department. Really, he had no choice. Don't worry, however, he will never be a police officer anywhere in this country again.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Joeysomma is indeed completely insane. How can I count the ways? I can't. What stands out for me, at least, is how she professes to be a Christian but hasn't got a Christian bone in her body. I wish she'd take her crocks of s**t and bugger off. :thumbdown:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I used to then one day I decided to stop it. I have never looked back. I find It didn't make me feel older and both of us liked it. I am grey not white - I wish I had that beautiful white that some women have. However, I am me, and I don't wear much makeup either. The wrinkles have been earned I figure and I am not worried at all about them. I turned grey in 2009 and 2011 by the time Pat got out of the hospital I was completely grey.
> 
> I never fought growing old as I always felt I didn't have any choice. My Dad fought it his whole life and wouldn't accept it . He made his own life miserable and was very frustrated and unhappy when he was growing old. I learned a lesson from him.
> 
> I don't mind showing my age- and don't worry about my age. as there is not a darned thing I can do about it. My BFF (went to school together) still dyes her hair and hates to be getting old. She worries constantly -- doesn't change anything and she thinks I am crazy and that I should worry about what people think. Different strokes for different folks/


I think you're quite beautiful. Growing old is a privilege not granted to all. Grace is more important than looks, anyway.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I think you're quite beautiful. Growing old is a privilege not granted to all. Grace is more important than looks, anyway.


Wow - what a nice thing to say! It made me feel like possibly a tear might fall. Thanks dear friend.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Wow - what a nice thing to say! It made me feel like possibly a tear might fall. Thanks dear friend.


You're welcome. You're a smart, lovely person and over-the-top talented, too. I'm looking forward to learning from you - oh, add generous to the list.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Good grief, I've just what was written on that conservative blog about the Obamas and their children. Utterly foul and disgusting - but not racist, of course.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I used to then one day I decided to stop it. I have never looked back. I find It didn't make me feel older and both of us liked it. I am grey not white - I wish I had that beautiful white that some women have. However, I am me, and I don't wear much makeup either. The wrinkles have been earned I figure and I am not worried at all about them. I turned grey in 2009 and 2011 by the time Pat got out of the hospital I was completely grey.
> 
> I never fought growing old as I always felt I didn't have any choice. My Dad fought it his whole life and wouldn't accept it . He made his own life miserable and was very frustrated and unhappy when he was growing old. I learned a lesson from him.
> 
> I don't mind showing my age- and don't worry about my age. as there is not a darned thing I can do about it. My BFF (went to school together) still dyes her hair and hates to be getting old. She worries constantly -- doesn't change anything and she thinks I am crazy and that I should worry about what people think. Different strokes for different folks/


Can I say that you shine with the glow of inner beauty. I love your hair, it looks to soft and feminine.

Too many women colour their hair too dark when they grow older and the darker colour just does not suit the more mature complexion. It is the same with makeup, too much when you are old just cakes in the wrinkles and makes you look older. I see a lot of older TV presenters who are too heavily made up and think to myself "lipstick is too heavy and that bright red lippy does not suit the older person." Ditto with the heavily made up eyes, they just do not suit the mature face.

Grow old gracefully and you have the charm of old age, fight the aging process and you lose the battle.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Good grief, I've just what was written on that conservative blog about the Obamas and their children. Utterly foul and disgusting - but not racist, of course.


They never are Anne, ja sure! :hunf:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Get your sneakers ready. We'll all be marching before this is over.


There aren't going to be any white people marching in the New Civil Rights Movement. White people will be running in the opposite direction as fast as they possibly can.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Good grief, I've just what was written on that conservative blog about the Obamas and their children. Utterly foul and disgusting - but not racist, of course.


Where did you read it? do you have a link or was it on the News?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer gave us tis link to follow http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/shocking-mistake-in-darren-wilson-grand-jury-364...this proves that the grand jury and its decision must be thrown out and a new grand jury with none of the former clowns included that were involved in the first grand jury and its process. IMO, Wilson committed negligent homicide and belongs behind bars. At least he resigned fro the Ferguson Police Department and it is unlikely he will ever work as a police office again, anywhere.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Where did you read it? do you have a link or was it on the News?


It took a bit of finding, but this is what I saw:
http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2290517/posts?page=152


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> It took a bit of finding, but this is what I saw:
> http://freerepublic.com/focus/news/2290517/posts?page=152


Honestly, I do not believe that people actually said those horrid things and were proud of what they said.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I wish I could agree with you, Eve, but it's all too believable.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> In reading this thread the last few days, It is apparent there is so much HATE expressed by the women here. Toward me, the other conservatives, and for the police and justice system in Ferguson.
> 
> I have thought about you while I was in church this morning. All I can do is pray for you. I will pray that something will happen in your life that you will realize there is a God, and you will need Him in your life, and you will accept Him as your personal Savior.
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're going to pray for something bad to happen - to make people realize they "need god." Let it go, Joey, and do something useful with your time.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Honestly, I do not believe that people actually said those horrid things and were proud of what they said.


Believe it, Eve. This kind of garbage goes on more often than you would like to think. These haters think they are the only true Americans, too.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

You, other conservatives here, the police system in Ferguson, and the LEGAL system are all reaping what's been sown. I pray that something will happen in your life to show the error of your ways even though it's exceptionarly unlikely my prayers will be answered.


joeysomma said:


> In reading this thread the last few days, It is apparent there is so much HATE expressed by the women here. Toward me, the other conservatives, and for the police and justice system in Ferguson.
> 
> I have thought about you while I was in church this morning. All I can do is pray for you. I will pray that something will happen in your life that you will realize there is a God, and you will need Him in your life, and you will accept Him as your personal Savior.
> Hav
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There aren't going to be any white people marching in the New Civil Rights Movement. White people will be running in the opposite direction as fast as they possibly can.


I don't agree with you. There are lots of 'whites' who agree with the Civil Rights movement. They should stand up and be counted. There are lots of Americans who don't like what happened and what continues to happen as far as racism by the police and many citizens.

If I was younger I would go down and march with them too. It is something we all have to decide as individuals. I am not sure whether you really believe that???


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't agree with you. There are lots of 'whites' who agree with the Civil Rights movement. They should stand up and be counted. There are lots of Americans who don't like what happened and what continues to happen as far as racism by the police and many citizens.
> 
> If I was younger I would go down and march with them too. It is something we all have to decide as individuals. I am not sure whether you really believe that???


Take a look at the faces of the Ferguson marchers. Lots of white people of conscience.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Very well stated.
> 
> Let's also remember that there was a mob protesting at the Walmart in Ferguson this week. Because of that, the store closed, people could not work, people could not shop.....what does that have to do with shooting of Michael Brown? Answer.......NOTHING. It just proves that the mob that has looted, bombed, burned, and destroyed Ferguson has a different agenda, and it is not about Michael Brown. They do not care about Ferguson and because of them it is now going to be a ghost town.
> 
> Just another example of Liberal compassion for the people that work for a living.


Um, black lives matter? That is what is being said. Black people want to be heard and they will create as many obstacles as needed to get their message across. Riots of this sort are not new. They have happened through the ages in terms of the Civil Rights movement and will continue to happen until the inequity between the treatment of black people and white people by police (in this instance), stops. Simple.

Unfortunate for those who experience the collateral damage of the protests but that's life. Weather does this too.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> IF he [Wilson] had the thoughts (during the encounter with the Victim) he said he had, he is not a good candidate to be on the Police Force. He is thinking in low Grade grade level.


As so, so many police officers do.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> what is so disturbing is how the Officer addressed this issue. I am sure if he had approached the Victim in a decent manner, he would have moved to the sidewalk.


I read today that police in the U.S. are to be taught how to de-escalate situations. Should have already been included in their training. Police are shocking at de-escalating violence all over the world.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Joeysomma is indeed completely insane. How can I count the ways? I can't. What stands out for me, at least, is how she professes to be a Christian but hasn't got a Christian bone in her body. I wish she'd take her crocks of s**t and bugger off. :thumbdown:


I like your opening 2 sentences, but to be fair, she does do missionary work bringing sewing machines and other stuff to people in other countries. So her Christianity is more than just Sunday morning.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not fair. You'll get us started.
> 
> Have you seen For those of us who remember? http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-301669-1.html Now you can really get started.


Sorry, mistake.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Here's a bigger photo. Of the carousel horse.
> 
> Heck if I know what that thing is in the meme.


DGreen
would love to horse around on that Animal. Beautiful picture, thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Liberals would have preferred that Walmart give their workers Thanksgiving off, instead of threatening to fire them if they didn't come to work. That's an example of Conservative family values.
> 
> We haven't heard what you have to say about campus rape in your state. You're Number 1.


Poor Purl
well, don't you know, that the Walton Heirs are looking to become the first Trillionaires? Can't miss an hour, much less a day to pull the bucks out of the poor folks pockets.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I suppose you're right, though I still wonder what LTL would say. She never said anything when Virginia Governor Ultrasound was convicted of a few felonies and - like any Southern gentleman - blamed his wife.


Poor Purl
Oh yes, Governor Ultrasound, what a Gentleman he is.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Can I say that you shine with the glow of inner beauty. I love your hair, it looks to soft and feminine.
> 
> Too many women colour their hair too dark when they grow older and the darker colour just does not suit the more mature complexion. It is the same with makeup, too much when you are old just cakes in the wrinkles and makes you look older. I see a lot of older TV presenters who are too heavily made up and think to myself "lipstick is too heavy and that bright red lippy does not suit the older person." Ditto with the heavily made up eyes, they just do not suit the mature face.
> 
> Grow old gracefully and you have the charm of old age, fight the aging process and you lose the battle.


I'll never stop wearing bright lippy! That's the only makeup I use. I've always felt the need to define at least one of my facial features since my mother told me my face looked like a boiled egg after plucking my eyebrows at the age of 14. :evil:

Bright pink, red, dark pink, dark red and coral - love them all. Kiss, kiss.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Sorry, mistake.


Freud said there was no such thing, or at least no accidents. Did you check out that thread? Was anything there familiar?

Now that I think of it, probably not. You're way too young.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> In reading this thread the last few days, It is apparent there is so much HATE expressed by the women here. Toward me, the other conservatives, and for the police and justice system in Ferguson.
> 
> I have thought about you while I was in church this morning. All I can do is pray for you. I will pray that something will happen in your life that you will realize there is a God, and you will need Him in your life, and you will accept Him as your personal Savior.
> 
> ...


And you're so innocent of spite and nastiness aren't you? NOT. Stop your hypocrisy, it's boring.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> There aren't going to be any white people marching in the New Civil Rights Movement. White people will be running in the opposite direction as fast as they possibly can.


Same here in Australia if we're not careful. And white people will run as fast as they possibly can for very good reasons. And so they should.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> well, don't you know, that the Walton Heirs are looking to become the first Trillionaires? Can't miss an hour, much less a day to pull the bucks out of the poor folks pockets.


Isn't it interesting to see how extremely wealthy people hate to lose so much as a nickel?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'll never stop wearing bright lippy! That's the only makeup I use. I've always felt the need to define at least one of my facial features since my mother told me my face looked like a boiled egg after plucking my eyebrows at the age of 14. :evil:
> 
> Bright pink, red, dark pink, dark red and coral - love them all. Kiss, kiss.


I really hope now that you're a woman. I've seen pictures of Phil, and he would look ridiculous in bright pink.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Freud said there was no such thing, or at least no accidents. Did you check out that thread? Was anything there familiar?
> 
> Now that I think of it, probably not. You're way too young.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: I wish too young!

I attempted to post a picture of an advertisement of Sparkling Porphyry Pearl wine for it's namesake, you Purl, but I couldn't get the damned thing on.

Porphyry Pearl was one of the very first wines introduced in Australia in the 50's I think and it became very popular in the 60's. In fact, I used to belong to a trio of singers which I named Porphyry Pearl in the early 70's. We sang the motown faves of the time.

There was champagne already but rarely requested or served in restaurants of the time. The next big thing was moselle wine. Became HUGE. Then cask wines became the norm (unfortunately), they were called Coolabah Wine Casks.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I really hope now that you're a woman. I've seen pictures of Phil, and he would look ridiculous in bright pink.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Bright lippy quite becomes me I'm told. Old Phil's motorized scooter's bright read colour was bad enough!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

This is a great piece of Australiana. I'm not sure if I've posted it before, but do watch it and listen carefully. You may have to watch and listen a couple of times:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't it interesting to see how extremely wealthy people hate to lose so much as a nickel?


Poor Purl
they are suffering from green back mania. Nothing else in life to reach for.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I like your opening 2 sentences, but to be fair, she does do missionary work bringing sewing machines and other stuff to people in other countries. So her Christianity is more than just Sunday morning.


I believe Joey really believes everything she says. I just don't agree with her.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> they are suffering from green back mania. Nothing else in life to reach for.


They don't care about the money. It's the power it brings.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I believe Joey really believes everything she says.


Yes, Christianity, the bible, Faux news and a raft of conspiracy theories. She also seems to believe her "criticism" of Obama does not rise to the level of hate - but I think she's fooling herself about that.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> In reading this thread the last few days, It is apparent there is so much HATE expressed by the women here. Toward me, the other conservatives, and for the police and justice system in Ferguson.
> 
> I have thought about you while I was in church this morning. All I can do is pray for you. I will pray that something will happen in your life that you will realize there is a God, and you will need Him in your life, and you will accept Him as your personal Savior.
> 
> ...


You are a good person. You can only do what is in your control.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: I wish too young!
> 
> I attempted to post a picture of an advertisement of Sparkling Porphyry Pearl wine for it's namesake, you Purl, but I couldn't get the damned thing on.
> 
> ...


I don't know what porphyry is. It must be nice or they wouldn't have named things after it, but to me it sounds like one of those strange diseases that kings and nobles used to get. I guess I could look it up.

Australia now has some really good wines, but do aussies drink it or do they still prefer Moselle? (I once had a patient whose daughter was named Moselle. At first I wondered whether the patient was a drinker, but she turned out not to be.)

Wow, once the old memory gets warmed up, it throws out all kinds of associations. For instance, I remember a celebrity/gigolo named Porfirio Rubirosa. I don't recall what he was famous for; maybe he married one of the Gabors.

Thank you for the wine, even though you couldn't post it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> This is a great piece of Australiana. I'm not sure if I've posted it before, but do watch it and listen carefully. You may have to watch and listen a couple of times:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> they are suffering from green back mania. Nothing else in life to reach for.


It really is a mental illness, to want more and more and not want to share any of it. If we were talking about food, everyone would see it as a problem, but since it's money, everybody want to be like them.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> This is a great piece of Australiana. I'm not sure if I've posted it before, but do watch it and listen carefully. You may have to watch and listen a couple of times:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It really is a mental illness, to want more and more and not want to share any of it. If we were talking about food, everyone would see it as a problem, but since it's money, everybody want to be like them.


Poor Purl
well, in the end, nothing has value. Death Shrouds have no pockets and we all become equals, Dust in the Wind. There is some real satisfaction in that.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Elegy to a Country Churchyard. Tres vrai. Tres vrai.


Poor Purl
well, in the end, nothing has value. Death Shrouds have no pockets and we all become equals, Dust in the Wind. There is some real satisfaction in that.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I like your opening 2 sentences, but to be fair, she does do missionary work bringing sewing machines and other stuff to people in other countries. So her Christianity is more than just Sunday morning.


I'm not criticizing what you've said about joey's charitable works, but charitable works do not a Christian make. Each drop of vitriol she posts here erodes her claim of being a Christian. It saddens me to say so, but that's what I believe about her.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm not criticizing what you've said about joey's charitable works, but charitable works do not a Christian make. Each drop of vitriol she posts here erodes her claim of being a Christian. It saddens me to say so, but that's what I believe about her.


That's an interesting way to look at things. Everyone (at least on the right) gives her a lot of credit for her work, but if she gets no pleasure from it - and I would guess that the vitriol eats into her pleasure - then all it is is a chore. I don't know; I certainly can't speak for her. I hope she gets some joy out of her sacrifice.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting way to look at things. Everyone (at least on the right) gives her a lot of credit for her work, but if she gets no pleasure from it - and I would guess that the vitriol eats into her pleasure - then all it is is a chore. I don't know; I certainly can't speak for her. I hope she gets some joy out of her sacrifice.


Poor Purl
she just seems so bitter all the time about everything.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't agree with you. There are lots of 'whites' who agree with the Civil Rights movement. They should stand up and be counted. There are lots of Americans who don't like what happened and what continues to happen as far as racism by the police and many citizens.
> 
> If I was younger I would go down and march with them too. It is something we all have to decide as individuals. I am not sure whether you really believe that???


The 1960s are long gone. The *NEW* Civil Rights Movement will generally be an African-Americans only event.

When I said 'There aren't going to be any white people marching in the New Civil Rights Movement. White people will be running in the opposite direction as fast as they possibly can.' I said exactly and precisely what I believe.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Same here in Australia if we're not careful. And white people will run as fast as they possibly can for very good reasons. And so they should.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: I wish too young!
> 
> I attempted to post a picture of an advertisement of Sparkling Porphyry Pearl wine for it's namesake, you Purl, but I couldn't get the damned thing on.
> 
> ...


This may come through.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> This is a great piece of Australiana. I'm not sure if I've posted it before, but do watch it and listen carefully. You may have to watch and listen a couple of times:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> This may come through.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm not criticizing what you've said about joey's charitable works, but charitable works do not a Christian make. Each drop of vitriol she posts here erodes her claim of being a Christian. It saddens me to say so, but that's what I believe about her.


How are your RCIA classes going, Seattle?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It did, and the amazing thing is that the model in the ad looks just like me, except for the eyebrows.
> 
> And can I interest you in a bridge I happen to have for sale?


Sorry but I am still paying for the one called 'the Coathanger'. It is located in Sydney. I actually thought I was buying a very large coat hanger and did not look at the price. Perhaps Wombat would be interested, after all she lives in Melbourne, just do not mention The West Gate Bridge to her.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How are your RCIA classes going, Seattle?


This is hilarious coming from you!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes, Christianity, the bible, Faux news and a raft of conspiracy theories. She also seems to believe her "criticism" of Obama does not rise to the level of hate - but I think she's fooling herself about that.


I agree and it is sad. It is sad that it is okay to attack two young girls who have done nothing to warrant attack except to be black (I hope I am wrong that that is one reason) and be the daughters of a President -I thought they looked great. It was a slam and unwarranted. I am sure that many Republicans agree with everything she said I also hope and believe that many l Republicans don't agree with that kind of garbage. I guess the more things like that are said the less people will be impressed.

I think it is very hard on young people to have to read and hear the nastiness in the Whitehouse about a father they love, and a Mother they love ( and then to be attacked publicly by someone who has an agenda about their father is really sad) whether it is a 
Democratic President or a Republican President. It is hard enough on young people without being the center of that kind nastiness. jmo


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

What is RCIA? Republican Camaraderie Indoctrination Association?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting way to look at things. Everyone (at least on the right) gives her a lot of credit for her work, but if she gets no pleasure from it - and I would guess that the vitriol eats into her pleasure - then all it is is a chore. I don't know; I certainly can't speak for her. I hope she gets some joy out of her sacrifice.


I think she's hedging her bets in case her good works don't reflect her faith.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> How are your RCIA classes going, Seattle?


Done and done. How's the state of your soul these days? I don't recall that insulting people is considered a good work.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I believe Joey really believes everything she says. I just don't agree with her.


Designer1234
I am with you on that.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> They don't care about the money. It's the power it brings.


DGreen
right on the button.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yes, Christianity, the bible, Faux news and a raft of conspiracy theories. She also seems to believe her "criticism" of Obama does not rise to the level of hate - but I think she's fooling herself about that.


DGreen
well, some Folks need to hang onto something and the Bible is a valuable instrument for them. Nothing can be proven or disproven - how convenient. I have no problem with them embracing it, I just want them to leave others alone with their stick.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It really is a mental illness, to want more and more and not want to share any of it. If we were talking about food, everyone would see it as a problem, but since it's money, everybody want to be like them.


Poor Purl
right for the most part, however I do not want to be like them. Never met a happy rich.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm not criticizing what you've said about joey's charitable works, but charitable works do not a Christian make. Each drop of vitriol she posts here erodes her claim of being a Christian. It saddens me to say so, but that's what I believe about her.


MaidInBedlam
I am sure everyone of us does charitable work but never mentions it, now that is Christian behavior. Going into other countries to brainwash the poor people is appalling to me. That is such indecent behavior. Go and help them and let them find their own way as far as Faith goes.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree and it is sad. It is sad that it is okay to attack two young girls who have done nothing to warrant attack except to be black (I hope I am wrong that that is one reason) and be the daughters of a President -I thought they looked great. It was a slam and unwarranted. I am sure that many Republicans agree with everything she said I also hope and believe that many l Republicans don't agree with that kind of garbage. I guess the more things like that are said the less people will be impressed.
> 
> Designer1234
> Luckily these two young Girls are well educated and have most loving Parents and extended Family. Only an Idiot would make such absurd statements. But when you have a burning desire to get in the news, you go nuts because that will get you there every time.
> ]


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> What is RCIA? Republican Camaraderie Indoctrination Association?


[/quote]Great guess!! it'll stick in my mind. :thumbup: It's actually the "Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults" and is, quoting from Wikipedia because my first cup of coffee hasn't kicked in yet, "a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism. Candidates are gradually introduced to aspects of Catholic beliefs and practices. The basic process applies to adults and older children".

I recently discovered that I had been baptized in infancy in the same Catolic Church my great-grandparents, grandmother, my mother and her 5 sisters attended. Grandmother, mother and aunts were all baptized there. Me. too.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Great guess!! it'll stick in my mind. :thumbup: It's actually the "Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults" and is, quoting from Wikipedia because my first cup of coffee hasn't kicked in yet, "a process developed by the Catholic Church for prospective converts to Catholicism who are above the age of infant baptism. Candidates are gradually introduced to aspects of Catholic beliefs and practices. The basic process applies to adults and older children".
> 
> I recently discovered that I had been baptized in infancy in the same Catolic Church my great-grandparents, grandmother, my mother and her 5 sisters attended. Grandmother, mother and aunts were all baptized there. Me. too.


That is amazing. That means you still live in your hometown?????

I sort of like my idea for those initials, too. Judaism discourages conversions but there are classes for the very determined.

Hi Dear Maid.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> That is amazing. That means you still live in your hometown?????
> 
> I sort of like my idea for those initials, too. Judaism discourages conversions but there are classes for the very determined.
> 
> Hi Dear Maid.


Just curious, SQM--why would they discourage such a thing?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I am sure everyone of us does charitable work but never mentions it, now that is Christian behavior. Going into other countries to brainwash the poor people is appalling to me. That is such indecent behavior. Go and help them and let them find their own way as far as Faith goes.


I agree. Many churches include evangelism as part of their faith. The Catholic Church calls itself an evangelical church. I guess I'm not a very good Catholic because I loathe evangelizing. LTL will probably explain it all to anyone who reads her posts.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hmm! Good question that may require PP or Marilyn to answer. We have the Chabad organization of fundamentalist Jews who try to get Jewish people to be less secular but their focus is on Jews only. I eagerly await the answer.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> That is amazing. That means you still live in your hometown?????
> 
> I sort of like my idea for those initials, too. Judaism discourages conversions but there are classes for the very determined.
> 
> Hi Dear Maid.


I do live in my home town, but haven't done so all of my life. I've lived in other places in the last 45 years. I think I was born with wandering feet.

I actually know 3 people who have converted to Judaism, and it was tough to do. Knowing 3 converts to Judaism is like knowing thousands of people who have become Christians.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Just curious, SQM--why would they discourage such a thing?


My wild guess is that they don't want converts who haven't done a lot deep thinking and studying.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My wild guess is that they don't want converts who haven't done a lot deep thinking and studying.


I have heard Judaism doesn't feel the need to proselytize. G-d is happy the way He created you. A non-Jew need not convert to fulfill G-d's wishes

There is a very good article at this link

http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/248165/jewish/Why-Do-Rabbis-Discourage-Conversions.htm

I will just quote a bit from the site.



> I went to speak to a rabbi about conversion, he discouraged me from converting, saying that it is more serious than I think, and that I can live a fulfilled life without becoming Jewish. I told him how excited I am about Judaism, but he still pushed me away.
> There is a Jewish belief that Judaism is not just good for the Jewish soul, its natural for the Jewish soul. The soul feels at home when it says Hebrew prayers, experiences a Shabbat table, or puts up a mezuzah. These acts are what makes the Jewish soul comfortable. A Jew has an innate affinity towards Judaism.
> 
> This is one reason why we push away converts. We set obstacles in their way so they can taste what its really like to be Jewish. So that it should be clear from the outset that a Jewish life is not an easy one. There will always be obstacles. The only difference is, before conversion the obstacles are from withoutstubborn rabbis who tell you, Dont bother with Judaism. After converting, those same rabbis will welcome you with open arms, and there will still be a voice telling you not to botherbut then it will be a voice from within you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Sorry but I am still paying for the one called 'the Coathanger'. It is located in Sydney. I actually thought I was buying a very large coat hanger and did not look at the price. Perhaps Wombat would be interested, after all she lives in Melbourne, just do not mention The West Gate Bridge to her.


The one I own is called the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm sure it could be moved to Melbourne.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> My wild guess is that they don't want converts who haven't done a lot deep thinking and studying.


I guess so--it must be a big step to take and they want people to be sure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> right for the most part, however I do not want to be like them. Never met a happy rich.


I guess I shouldn't have said "everybody." But a lot of people, especially Americans, seem to think that being overly wealthy is how you live the American Dream.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Thanks, Evie. That link is very interesting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hmm! Good question that may require PP or Marilyn to answer. We have the Chabad organization of fundamentalist Jews who try to get Jewish people to be less secular but their focus is on Jews only. I eagerly await the answer.


There's a pretty good answer here: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ask_the_expert/at/Ask_the_Expert_Proselytism.shtml

Here's another one, slightly different: http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html?catid=955173


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I had something to say in agreement with your next-to-last paragraph, but you had to get in your snark at the end. I didn't know I was supposed to be original; you never are.


I'm not a conservative. Doing business has changed tremendously over the last 40 years. I do not want things to return to the "good old days". It's much more exciting now.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Please, please, let everyone here stop using the word justice. Justice and the Law are distant cousins. There wasn't any justice for Michal Brown and there will never be any, no matter how much any of us wish it were otherwise.
> 
> Officer Wilson wigged out. He was scared to death when he didn't need to be. He's a murderer, He was a rotten police officer, and now he's resigned from the Ferguson Police Department. Really, he had choice. Don't worry, however, he will never be a police no other office anywhere in this country again.


I didn't realize you were in Ferguson, MO in the police car with officer Wilson to know he didn't need to be scared to death. How reassuring. DRIP, DRIP, DRIP


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a pretty good answer here: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ask_the_expert/at/Ask_the_Expert_Proselytism.shtml
> 
> Here's another one, slightly different: http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html?catid=955173


Astonishing and sad that Jews believe that Heaven is open to all, but the Christians (at least the ones populating D & P) believe that anyone who hasn't been "saved" is damned.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> There's a pretty good answer here: http://www.myjewishlearning.com/ask_the_expert/at/Ask_the_Expert_Proselytism.shtml
> 
> Here's another one, slightly different: http://www.aish.com/atr/Jewish_Proselytizing.html?catid=955173


Oy! Such a scholar is our PP. And I loved the answers and the inclusiveness of Judaism.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! Such a scholar is our PP. And I loved the answers and the inclusiveness of Judaism.


You could be such a scholar yourself. All I did was Google "why Jews don't proselytize," and the first two links were the ones I sent you. The third one talks about what to do or say when Christians try to convert you.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Request for an explanation of your avatar.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The one I own is called the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm sure it could be moved to Melbourne.


And Melbourne should warmly welcome it. The Brooklyn Bridge is a far more distinguished looking bridge than the West Gate Bridge pictured here:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The one I own is called the Brooklyn Bridge. I'm sure it could be moved to Melbourne.


Who is the person in your avatar PP?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Save me Comrades from having to post on main. I am doing intarsia for the first time and the 6 stitches of cc is not connecting to the mc. I am wrapping the cc under the mc and then knit but the cc, which is at the end of the row is not connecting. Help me Wise Ones and I would even be happy to hear from Windy.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Request for an explanation of your avatar.


Hmm...that face looks familiar. Have we seen it before?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...that face looks familiar. Have we seen it before?


It is either PP in 1960 or one of those women who tried to kill a president.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You could be such a scholar yourself. All I did was Google "why Jews don't proselytize," and the first two links were the ones I sent you. The third one talks about what to do or say when Christians try to convert you.


The way *some of *so called Christians act on these threads would be the furthest thing that should interest you as far as being converted!


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Yes Evem. You IDed her. I wonder why PP is so interested in her. 

I cannot see what is written on yours. Can you enlarge it?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Yes Evem. You IDed her. I wonder why PP is so interested in her.
> 
> I cannot see what is written on yours. Can you enlarge it?


I also wondered why our friend is interested in this woman.

With regards to my avatar, it is difficult to enlarge and post so you can read the text, unfortunately. But I have typed it out. I hope it does not upset other posters who are of a delicate disposition.



> And another thing Francis.all this fuss over same sex marriage
> I just dont see what the big deal is.
> Harvey and I have been having the same sex for nearly 54 years
> And to tell you the truth it isn't worth getting all upset over.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Good one Evem.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> And Melbourne should warmly welcome it. The Brooklyn Bridge is a far more distinguished looking bridge than the West Gate Bridge pictured here:


It looks like an amusement park ride. The Brooklyn Bridge looks like a cathedral. I'd want cash for it; no trade-in.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Who is the person in your avatar PP?


I see Eve got her before I could answer. I affectionately know her as Psycho Killer Cheryl. Ain't she cute?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I see Eve got her before I could answer. I affectionately know her as Psycho Killer Cheryl. Ain't she cute?


A great example of the banality of evil.

Why does she interest you?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Save me Comrades from having to post on main. I am doing intarsia for the first time and the 6 stitches of cc is not connecting to the mc. I am wrapping the cc under the mc and then knit but the cc, which is at the end of the row is not connecting. Help me Wise Ones and I would even be happy to hear from Windy.


Try wrapping twice, or find an intarsia video on Youtube. I'm sure someone has solved this before

Or you could get rid of the end of the row.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Hmm...that face looks familiar. Have we seen it before?


Yes, you have, but only if you looked fast. My post with this face was deleted, apparently because it gave away personal info. I don't know whose. Do we have any convicted murderers on KP?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Try wrapping twice, or find an intarsia video on Youtube. I'm sure someone has solved this before
> 
> Or you could get rid of the end of the row.


(It is hard to write to that face.)

I will do both of your suggestions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> It is either PP in 1960 or one of those women who tried to kill a president.


Wrong on both. I was way cuter in 1960, and PKC only killed her aunt and uncle, neither of whom was president.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> The way *some of *so called Christians act on these threads would be the furthest thing that should interest you as far as being converted!


That's how I see it, too.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Is this the person in our friend Purl's avatar? Cheryl Holland
> 
> http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Cheryl_Holland
> 
> ...


Wow, Eve. You must have been a champion researcher.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Please PP - I will send you money in the mail if you change your avatar. Are you having some problems with a category?


(I am listening to a commercial about Linzess and am hearing every bathroom word on TV. But I am not laughing.)

If you need some ideas, I will begin a list of topics for a new avatar so SQM can open up her left eye:

1. Snowflakes


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I see Eve got her before I could answer. I affectionately know her as Psycho Killer Cheryl. Ain't she cute?


An absolute doll!


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> It looks like an amusement park ride. The Brooklyn Bridge looks like a cathedral. I'd want cash for it; no trade-in.


Definitely not an amusement park ride, 35 workers were killed when it collapsed during construction in 1970. I think they did not find the bodies of three of the workers .

I do not like driving across it, I do not feel safe. You seem to be perched up there, so high, with very little safety. Maybe it is haunted by the ghosts of the dead workers.

http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/west-gate-bridge-disaster-1970#.VH0cwTGUd8E

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/law-order/melbournes-west-gate-bridge-collapse-left-scene-of-carnage-and-35-dead-in-1970-horror/story-fni0fee2-1226917858522

http://www.onlymelbourne.com.au/west-gate-bridge-disaster-1970#.VH0ZhTGUd8E


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I see where Yarnie says I called her 'crass, prepubescent' on D and P. I wonder whether WCK will admit those were her words and that I didn't call yarnie anything of the kind.

They were WCK's words and they were calling us Crass prepubescent children (?). Be interesting to see if she tells them on that thread that they were her words not mine. I can't hardly spell such long long words, and never would use them in a million years. _I guess I am just tooo darned dum!_ By the way I wasn't lurking there. If anyone wants to know. I hope that integrity happens --if it does nothing more will be said. If it doesn't - I guess that speaks for itself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Definitely not an amusement park ride, 35 workers were killed when it collapsed during construction in 1970. I think they did not find the bodies of three of the workers .
> 
> I do not like driving across it, I do not feel safe. You seem to be perched up there, so high, with very little safety. Maybe it is haunted by the ghosts of the dead workers.
> 
> ...


We have stories like that about the George Washington Bridge, supposedly the most heavily trafficked bridge in the world. It opened in 1931 and supposedly workers were killed while working on it. But it was normal things dropping on people. Your bridge sounds like very bad engineering. I'd stay away, too.

The George Washington Bridge is very popular with suicides. In fact, my brother's close friend killed himself by jumping off, leaving his car sitting in the right lane.

If you want to see an interesting bridge story, look at this video of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> We have stories like that about the George Washington Bridge, supposedly the most heavily trafficked bridge in the world. It opened in 1931 and supposedly workers were killed while working on it. But it was normal things dropping on people. Your bridge sounds like very bad engineering. I'd stay away, too.
> 
> The George Washington Bridge is very popular with suicides. In fact, my brother's close friend killed himself by jumping off, leaving his car sitting in the right lane.
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> All the workers died in one horrific accident in October 1970. I still remember hearing the news broadcast. It was bad engineering. Cover ups and bad attempts to rectify bad design faults. The person responsible was on the bridge when it collapsed and he died in the accident. There had been a similar bridge collapse in Wales just before the West Gate disaster and the same person was in charge of the construction of that bridge. It was an horrific disaster that day. The trade unions immediately withdrew all their workers from the bridge. They downed tools but stayed behind to attempt to rescue their fellow workers. Workers were burnt to death in the fires that broke out in the wreckage, people could not get to them to help them, the heat of the fire was so intense.


What a terrible story. But I'm sure the people in charge were paid well to build the thing (except for the one who was killed while on the bridge).


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I see where Yarnie says I called her 'crass, prepubescent' on D and P. I wonder whether WCK will admit those were her words and that I didn't call yarnie anything of the kind.
> 
> They were WCK's words and they were calling us Crass prepubescent children (?). Be interesting to see if she tells them on that thread that they were her words not mine. I can't hardly spell such long long words, and never would use them in a million years. _I guess I am just tooo darned dum!_ By the way I wasn't lurking there. If anyone wants to know. I hope that integrity happens --if it does nothing more will be said. If it doesn't - I guess that speaks for itself.


I posted to you on Victory thread, replying to your statement saying you are all individuals - but will copy it here as a reply to your post on this thread ...



west coast kitty said:


> *And so are we which was the main point of my post! *
> 
> As I said, you and some others often lump us together and make generalizations about us in the same breath as complaining about it happening to you. I didn't insert myself into your conversation with CB - you opened the door to everyone from Denim in your post when you said ..."You all parrot each other - never any differences, even small ones. Don' any of you ever have a thought of your own? It certainly doesn't seem like it. The ones who might not agree, are quiet, and don't post"
> 
> ...


Please note that I didn't call anyone "crass and pubescent" - it clearly referred to those specific posts.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Save me Comrades from having to post on main. I am doing intarsia for the first time and the 6 stitches of cc is not connecting to the mc. I am wrapping the cc under the mc and then knit but the cc, which is at the end of the row is not connecting. Help me Wise Ones and I would even be happy to hear from Windy.


Not sure what you mean by the cc at end of row is not connecting (to what)?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I see Eve got her before I could answer. I affectionately know her as Psycho Killer Cheryl. Ain't she cute?


I was worried it was a younger pic of you. There's a certain disquiet in her affect. Not surprising though.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> All the workers died in one horrific accident in October 1970. I still remember hearing the news broadcast. It was bad engineering. Cover ups and bad attempts to rectify bad design faults. The person responsible was on the bridge when it collapsed and he died in the accident. There had been a similar bridge collapse in Wales just before the West Gate disaster and the same person was in charge of the construction of that bridge. It was an horrific disaster that day. The trade unions immediately withdrew all their workers from the bridge. They downed tools but stayed behind to attempt to rescue their fellow workers. Workers were burnt to death in the fires that broke out in the wreckage, people could not get to them to help them, the heat of the fire was so intense.


I remember having arrived home from school and turning on the television and learning about it. It was absolutely tragic and the TV footage was stark and bleak. It cast a very dark and sad shadow over the state for weeks and weeks and weeks.

I don't have any fear driving over the West Gate, never have. In high winds, the speed limit often goes down to 40k per hour.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was my guess too MIB. Can't wait to hear from Purl or Marilyn.



MaidInBedlam said:


> My wild guess is that they don't want converts who haven't done a lot deep thinking and studying.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We have the original London Bridge in Lake Havasu City Arizona USA. How's that for an oddity?



Wombatnomore said:


> And Melbourne should warmly welcome it. The Brooklyn Bridge is a far more distinguished looking bridge than the West Gate Bridge pictured here:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Eve, I'm laughing out loud at the two ladies' quote in your avatar. Excellent.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> We have the original London Bridge in Lake Havasu City Arizona USA. How's that for an oddity?


I remember when they shipped it to the USA. They dismantled it, brick by brick, and numbered all the bricks and then rebuilt it. I think it could not handle the volume of traffic in London when it was decommissioned, it was slowly sinking into the muddy bottom of the river.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, you have, but only if you looked fast. My post with this face was deleted, apparently because it gave away personal info. I don't know whose. Do we have any convicted murderers on KP?


My answer to that rhetorical question is 'probably.'


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wrong on both. I was way cuter in 1960, and PKC only killed her aunt and uncle, neither of whom was president.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Eve, I'm laughing out loud at the two ladies' quote in your avatar. Excellent.


But Jodi Arias, why are you smiling in your mugshot?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very good Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> I remember when they shipped it to the USA. They dismantled it, brick by brick, and numbered all the bricks and then rebuilt it. I think it could not handle the volume of traffic in London when it was decommissioned, it was slowly sinking into the muddy bottom of the river.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Eve, You get the prize. No one else noticed or commented on this avatar. I chose that particular photo because it looks so 'normal.' I'd say it's more yearbook photo than mug shot. The banality of evil.

The sentencing trial is still going on in Phoenix. I wonder why sentence her until the appeals are settled. Seems like a waste. I have a feeling she'll be out among us one day.



EveMCooke said:


> But Jodi Arias, why are you smiling in your mugshot?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I do live in my home town, but haven't done so all of my life. I've lived in other places in the last 45 years. I think I was born with wandering feet.
> 
> I actually know 3 people who have converted to Judaism, and it was tough to do. Knowing 3 converts to Judaism is like knowing thousands of people who have become Christians.


MaidInBedlam
I know quite a number of individuals who became Jews. All of them prev. Catholics. That however was not the reason for conversion. The conversion numbers depend greatly on the area one lives in.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I was worried it was a younger pic of you. There's a certain disquiet in her affect. Not surprising though.


I would worry if I thought it was of me. I never wore glasses that big, my hair is - or was- much darker, and I don't think I was so scary looking, but that's not for me to say.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For my fellow libs, an insightful article written by a former conservative who changed his mind. Interesting.

http://www.salon.com/2014/07/16/i_was_poor_but_a_gop_die_hard_how_i_finally_left_the_politics_of_shame/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I remember when they shipped it to the USA. They dismantled it, brick by brick, and numbered all the bricks and then rebuilt it. I think it could not handle the volume of traffic in London when it was decommissioned, it was slowly sinking into the muddy bottom of the river.


What was funny about that transaction was that the buyer thought he was getting Tower Bridge, which is far more interesting-looking and fairy tale-ish. Then he found out it was the wrong bridge, but it was too late to get a refund.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> My answer to that rhetorical question is 'probably.'


I would bet that we have no more than a handful of murderers on KP. Maybe 5 or 6 at most.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For my fellow libs, an insightful article written by a former conservative who changed his mind. Interesting.
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2014/07/16/i_was_poor_but_a_gop_die_hard_how_i_finally_left_the_politics_of_shame/


What an interesting piece. Shows how wrong our friends are about why people vote against their own best interests.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> For my fellow libs, an insightful article written by a former conservative who changed his mind. Interesting.
> 
> http://www.salon.com/2014/07/16/i_was_poor_but_a_gop_die_hard_how_i_finally_left_the_politics_of_shame/


I found this very interesting. Thanks for sharing it. I agreed with a lot of what he said. It's taken me many years to figure out that the conservatives are not on my side. However, I don't think that the liberals are either. IMO, the liberals like to create dependency. They want to spend somebody else's money to make everything fair, and I just don't think that's fair either. I think the conservatives and the liberals are two sides of the same coin. Neither side is doing anything to make the system more fair. Both sides support the upper class. The liberals just paint a prettier picture by taking from the middle class and giving to the poor. If we want any real change, we need to demand that the playing field be even. Everyone deserves the opportunity to have a job that pays a living wage. The only way to accomplish this is by making it disadvantageous to send jobs to other countries. Unless and until we have so many jobs that they can't be filled, stiff tariffs should be imposed on goods coming from overseas. Neither side is doing anything to bring back the jobs! Nothing will improve for the poor and middle class unless they fix that. You can't legislate a living wage because it will cause the price of goods and services to increase, and then what was a living wage, no longer is. The only way to have a TRUE living wage is to have more jobs than people to fill them. Then and only then, will the people be able to demand a fair wage.

We need to be smart enough to look behind the curtains on both sides of the aisle. BOTH sides are supporting those who drain this country of it's resources. We have to recognize that nobody in Washington is on our side! Dependence upon the government for survival may seem like a good thing in the short term, but it is not to anyone's advantage to be dependent upon anyone! We must demand that the laws written by and for corporations be repealed. We must demand that favoritism be ended and fair open markets be installed. Mom and pop stores should be able to pay the same wholesale price for goods, as Walmart. Laws that encourage free and open capitalism will benefit us more that welfare and food stamps. Welfare and food stamps have their place but they're not intended for the masses. We're in big trouble in this country because we've sat back and let a small group of people take over. They're sucking us dry, and if we don't recognize that and stop it, we might as well get ready for a new type of slavery. Because that's what's starting to occur.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I found this very interesting. Thanks for sharing it. I agreed with a lot of what he said. It's taken me many years to figure out that the conservatives are not on my side. However, I don't think that the liberals are either. IMO, the liberals like to create dependency. They want to spend somebody else's money to make everything fair, and I just don't think that's fair either. I think the conservatives and the liberals are two sides of the same coin. Neither side is doing anything to make the system more fair. Both sides support the upper class. The liberals just paint a prettier picture by taking from the middle class and giving to the poor. If we want any real change, we need to demand that the playing field be even. Everyone deserves the opportunity to have a job that pays a living wage. The only way to accomplish this is by making it disadvantageous to send jobs to other countries. Unless and until we have so many jobs that they can't be filled, stiff tariffs should be imposed on goods coming from overseas. Neither side is doing anything to bring back the jobs! Nothing will improve for the poor and middle class unless they fix that. You can't legislate a living wage because it will cause the price of goods and services to increase, and then what was a living wage, no longer is. The only way to have a TRUE living wage is to have more jobs than people to fill them. Then and only then, will the people be able to demand a fair wage.
> 
> We need to be smart enough to look behind the curtains on both sides of the aisle. BOTH sides are supporting those who drain this country of it's resources. We have to recognize that nobody in Washington is on our side! Dependence upon the government for survival may seem like a good thing in the short term, but it is not to anyone's advantage to be dependent upon anyone! We must demand that the laws written by and for corporations be repealed. We must demand that favoritism be ended and fair open markets be installed. Mom and pop stores should be able to pay the same wholesale price for goods, as Walmart. Laws that encourage free and open capitalism will benefit us more that welfare and food stamps. Welfare and food stamps have their place but they're not intended for the masses. We're in big trouble in this country because we've sat back and let a small group of people take over. They're sucking us dry, and if we don't recognize that and stop it, we might as well get ready for a new type of slavery. Because that's what's starting to occur.


We agree in so many ways. I disagree about free and open capitalism, though. The free market will never regulate itself, so limits and controls must come from government.

I have a question. I know you looked at Wolf-Pac and did not feel you could support them. I understand your position. Do you have any other answer to the problem of corporate control of our government? To me, that is one of the root causes of our problems and must be resolved before we can make any progress on anything. Any ideas?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What an interesting piece. Shows how wrong our friends are about why people vote against their own best interests.


ALL of us vote against our own best interests! Over the past decades we've had republicans in charge and we've had democrats in charge. We continue down the same road regardless of which party holds the power. Unless we recognize that neither side wants to really fix what's wrong, were ALL voting against our own interests!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> We agree in so many ways. I disagree about free and open capitalism, though. The free market will never regulate itself, so limits and controls must come from government.


I agree that those limits and controls must come from government. But those limits and controls must not be for sale to the highest bidder. They must provide a fair playing field for all.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that those limits and controls must come from government. But those limits and controls must not be for sale to the highest bidder. They must provide a fair playing field for all.


Absolutely.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I say, "Why the [email protected] should we be satisfied with food stamps and welfare?!?". We deserve our own peice of the pie if we're willing to work for it! No more crumbs!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> We agree in so many ways. I disagree about free and open capitalism, though. The free market will never regulate itself, so limits and controls must come from government.
> 
> I have a question. I know you looked at Wolf-Pac and did not feel you could support them. I understand your position. Do you have any other answer to the problem of corporate control of our government? To me, that is one of the root causes of our problems and must be resolved before we can make any progress on anything. Any ideas?


What scares me about Wolf PAC is that the control is not in our power. We'd be putting our Constitution into the hands of the very people who oppress us now. Only in this case, they're not even answerable to the public. We could lose everything! I'm not willing to take that chance! I understand that our Constitution is being eroded on an ongoing basis. Governments like to ignore it and pass laws that go against it. But it's that one tiny straw that I cling to, in hope that someday, we can return to what we were meant to be, a free and powerful people. Wolf PAC could be a perfect and sincere organization, but that doesn't mean that a con con would come out in our favor. Those delegates to the con con could change any or all of the Constitution.

IMO, our best hope lies in making the masses open their eyes to the truth that neither party is on their side, that the deck is stacked against them. Until the masses recognize this, everything else is hopeless. Small groups of people cannot affect change of this magnitude. The masses need to stand and demand that change!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> We have the original London Bridge in Lake Havasu City Arizona USA. How's that for an oddity?


I'm sure it is most handsome! Was it a gift to the nation?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I would worry if I thought it was of me. I never wore glasses that big, my hair is - or was- much darker, and I don't think I was so scary looking, but that's not for me to say.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nope. Some rich bloke purchased it and had it delivered, as I recall.



Wombatnomore said:


> I'm sure it is most handsome! Was it a gift to the nation?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Nope. Some rich bloke purchased it and had it delivered, as I recall.


I think Grace knows the most about celebrity history. Is that so?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What scares me about Wolf PAC is that the control is not in our power. We'd be putting our Constitution into the hands of the very people who oppress us now. Only in this case, they're not even answerable to the public. We could lose everything! I'm not willing to take that chance! I understand that our Constitution is being eroded on an ongoing basis. Governments like to ignore it and pass laws that go against it. But it's that one tiny straw that I cling to, in hope that someday, we can return to what we were meant to be, a free and powerful people. Wolf PAC could be a perfect and sincere organization, but that doesn't mean that a con con would come out in our favor. Those delegates to the con con could change any or all of the Constitution.
> 
> IMO, our best hope lies in making the masses open their eyes to the truth that neither party is on their side, that the deck is stacked against them. Until the masses recognize this, everything else is hopeless. Small groups of people cannot affect change of this magnitude. The masses need to stand and demand that change!


I disagree. Remember the power of one? The masses won't budge until they're moved by an ideology that proves change for the good. Who's going to move them? The few who effect the change.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope I'm an expert on other things. Doesn't seem as though celebrity knowledge is much claim to fame.



SQM said:


> I think Grace knows the most about celebrity history. Is that so?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hope I'm an expert on other things. Doesn't seem as though celebrity knowledge is much claim to fame.



SQM said:


> I think Grace knows the most about celebrity history. Is that so?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm sure it is most handsome! Was it a gift to the nation?


Robert McCulloch, founder of the Lake Havasu City, won the old bridge with a $2,460,000 bid at the City of London's auction in 1968. McCulloch then spent another $7 million to have it moved to the community he established in 1964.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I hope I'm an expert on other things. Doesn't seem as though celebrity knowledge is much claim to fame.


In the Sloth family, we find that talent quite marvelous. My evil republican twin knows trivia about Early-Mid 20th century songs, films and celebrities. Savant.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I found this very interesting. Thanks for sharing it. I agreed with a lot of what he said. It's taken me many years to figure out that the conservatives are not on my side. However, I don't think that the liberals are either. IMO, the liberals like to create dependency. They want to spend somebody else's money to make everything fair, and I just don't think that's fair either. I think the conservatives and the liberals are two sides of the same coin. Neither side is doing anything to make the system more fair. Both sides support the upper class. The liberals just paint a prettier picture by taking from the middle class and giving to the poor. If we want any real change, we need to demand that the playing field be even. Everyone deserves the opportunity to have a job that pays a living wage. The only way to accomplish this is by making it disadvantageous to send jobs to other countries. Unless and until we have so many jobs that they can't be filled, stiff tariffs should be imposed on goods coming from overseas. Neither side is doing anything to bring back the jobs! Nothing will improve for the poor and middle class unless they fix that. You can't legislate a living wage because it will cause the price of goods and services to increase, and then what was a living wage, no longer is. The only way to have a TRUE living wage is to have more jobs than people to fill them. Then and only then, will the people be able to demand a fair wage.
> 
> We need to be smart enough to look behind the curtains on both sides of the aisle. BOTH sides are supporting those who drain this country of it's resources. We have to recognize that nobody in Washington is on our side! Dependence upon the government for survival may seem like a good thing in the short term, but it is not to anyone's advantage to be dependent upon anyone! We must demand that the laws written by and for corporations be repealed. We must demand that favoritism be ended and fair open markets be installed. Mom and pop stores should be able to pay the same wholesale price for goods, as Walmart. Laws that encourage free and open capitalism will benefit us more that welfare and food stamps. Welfare and food stamps have their place but they're not intended for the masses. We're in big trouble in this country because we've sat back and let a small group of people take over. They're sucking us dry, and if we don't recognize that and stop it, we might as well get ready for a new type of slavery. Because that's what's starting to occur.


I'm sorry, but some of this is nonsense. About what "Liberals" want, you're mostly wrong.

And how could a free market allow small stores to pay as little as Walmart when a producer's costs are higher for a shipment to one store than multiple shipments to many stores?

And most of all, what makes you think "the masses," whoever they are, are all collecting Welfare and food stamps? That's typical con propaganda.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ALL of us vote against our own best interests! Over the past decades we've had republicans in charge and we've had democrats in charge. We continue down the same road regardless of which party holds the power. Unless we recognize that neither side wants to really fix what's wrong, were ALL voting against our own interests!


Okay, that's something I can believe in, except for a few Independents and Democrats. Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Sherrod Brown, Al Franken, a few others. Not a single one in the Republican party.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I disagree. Remember the power of one? The masses won't budge until they're moved by an ideology that proves change for the good. Who's going to move them? The few who effect the change.


I think that if you understood the ins and outs of a con con (constitutional convention) you would understand my point. If the states call for a con con, the people do not get to choose their delegates. The delegates are chosen by the party officials in each state. If you called for a con con to change a specific part of the constitution, those delegates are not bound to only changing that part. They can change any part, even if it is against the will of the people. I think we run too great a risk, trusting unelected delegates to "do the right thing". If the congress moves to amend the constitution, at least they are restrained by the fact that they have to run for reelection. Not so with unelected delegates.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I say, "Why the [email protected] should we be satisfied with food stamps and welfare?!?". We deserve our own peice of the pie if we're willing to work for it! No more crumbs!


Knitter from Nebraska
No more crumbs? Many individuals need assistance, let us go after abuse and fraud and take care of those who cannot do so for themselves. Let us keep some Heart on Government, please.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that if you understood the ins and outs of a con con (constitutional convention) you would understand my point. If the states call for a con con, the people do not get to choose their delegates. The delegates are chosen by the party officials in each state. If you called for a con con to change a specific part of the constitution, those delegates are not bound to only changing that part. They can change any part, even if it is against the will of the people. I think we run too great a risk, trusting unelected delegates to "do the right thing". If the congress moves to amend the constitution, at least they are restrained by the fact that they have to run for reelection. Not so with unelected delegates.


The constitution does NOT specifically say how delegates would be chosen. Please provide a source for your claim the delegates would be unelected.

The Wolf-Pac proposed petition says:

"WHEREAS the State of [your state] desires that the delegates to said convention shall be comprised equally from individuals currently elected to state and local office, or be selected by election in each Congressional district for the purpose of serving as delegates, though all individuals elected or appointed to federal office, now or in the past, be prohibited from serving as delegates to the Convention, and intends to retain the ability to restrict or expand the power of its delegates within the limits expressed above." You can read the entire text at https://docs.google.com/a/wolf-pac.com/document/d/16k_iwdwxJlAAZKeYCOJ_S1Za82U_XevCp6wwPXklcBU/edit?pli=1

Remember, an amendment would have to be passed by 3/4 of the states and some wild scheme to make other changes would fail.

History also supports the idea that a LIMITED agenda is the norm. Previous amendments have all been limited in scope. Besides, EVERY time congress meets, they can propose whatever constitutional amendment they want. Notice how often that happens, and guess what the response from the states would be if unacceptable changes were proposed.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Eve, You get the prize. No one else noticed or commented on this avatar. I chose that particular photo because it looks so 'normal.' I'd say it's more yearbook photo than mug shot. The banality of evil.
> 
> The sentencing trial is still going on in Phoenix. I wonder why sentence her until the appeals are settled. Seems like a waste. I have a feeling she'll be out among us one day.


I meant to comment and ask whether you had a message there, then other things took over my attention and I forgot. What is happening with her? Is she quietly serving her sentence or is there more coming up on HLN about her? She is a real piece of work.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sorry, but some of this is nonsense. About what "Liberals" want, you're mostly wrong.
> 
> And how could a free market allow small stores to pay as little as Walmart when a producer's costs are higher for a shipment to one store than multiple shipments to many stores?
> 
> And most of all, what makes you think "the masses," whoever they are, are all collecting Welfare and food stamps? That's typical con propaganda.


I find the use of the word "masses" is troubling. It puts a huge number of people in one group - no names, no personalities, no individuals, just a group of nameless faceless people. I don't care for thinking of people as a mass . Too many different individuals to make a 'mass'. It puts people in a box - and I hate that. It is what Stalin and Hitler called those they wanted to group together to destroy. I have never liked that word since the 2nd world war. It gives me shivers.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I meant to comment and ask whether you had a message there, then other things took over my attention and I forgot. What is happening with her? Is she quietly serving her sentence or is there more coming up on HLN about her? She is a real piece of work.


The State of Arizona is still trying to get a penalty phase decision in association with her first trial. In the meantime, she is enjoying her celebrity and has already retained a lawyer to appeal her conviction. I predict the appeal will be based on inadequate counsel or some such thing, since she did not get along well with her lawyer. It's hard to imagine her disputing the facts and evidence.

Pure evil.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I find the use of the word "masses" is troubling. It puts a huge number of people in one group - no names, no personalities, no individuals, just a group of nameless faceless people. I don't care for thinking of people as a mass . Too many different individuals to make a 'mass'. It puts people in a box - and I hate that. It is what Stalin and Hitler called those they wanted to group together to destroy. I have never liked that word since the 2nd world war. It gives me shivers.


I also have trouble with the "masses" thing. People receiving assistance are hardly "the masses." The masses work and work hard to make ends meet. These are SAFETY NET programs, primarily medical care and food. Hardly the "government providing for our every need" that we have heard from some. Remember, too, that wages have been stagnant for years and even those who work can't afford to take care of their medical needs in today' world. Food? I feel that is a basic right and in a country as wealth as ours, no one, NO ONE, should be hungry.

Statistics:

about 32 million households, or 27.1 percent, benefited from at least one means-tested poverty program. The biggest benefits here were Medicaid (19.5 percent), food stamps (12.7 percent) and subsidized lunches (11.2 percent). Again, there's some overlap.

--Smaller benefits include public housing (5 percent of households), unemployment (4 percent), and veterans' compensation (2.6 percent). Only 7 percent of households receive some sort of direct cash assistance, such as the TANF welfare program.

If 49% receive a benefit - the rest is social security and medicare. Which we paid into and which is in jeopardy because the government has borrowed so much of it without paying it back.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> No more crumbs? Many individuals need assistance, let us go after abuse and fraud and take care of those who cannot do so for themselves. Let us keep some Heart on Government, please.


Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote. My point was that we should demand that they bring the jobs back to reduce the need for assistance. If the people were employed in well paying jobs, very few would need or want to be on assistance. I have always advocated that those who cannot work should be taken care of, by the government. But there is no good reason for able bodied adults to be unemployed in a consumer nation such as this. The only reason, is greed on the part of those who want their goods made more cheaply, overseas. We shouldn't be settling for the crumbs of welfare (crumbs because its not much to try and live on), while some are draining everything out of this country. I don't advocate taking from the rich and giving to the poor. However, our current laws and regulations allow the 1%, to take all. The government's role should not be to feed the people. It should be, to create conditions in which the people can feed themselves.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Robert McCulloch, founder of the Lake Havasu City, won the old bridge with a $2,460,000 bid at the City of London's auction in 1968. McCulloch then spent another $7 million to have it moved to the community he established in 1964.


It is handsome though. Good for him, providing a useful attraction in his community.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote. My point was that we should demand that they bring the jobs back to reduce the need for assistance. If the people were employed in well paying jobs, very few would need or want to be on assistance. I have always advocated that those who cannot work should be taken care of, by the government. But there is no good reason for able bodied adults to be unemployed in a consumer nation such as this. The only reason, is greed on the part of those who want their goods made more cheaply, overseas. We shouldn't be settling for the crumbs of welfare (crumbs because its not much to try and live on), while some are draining everything out of this country. I don't advocate taking from the rich and giving to the poor. However, our current laws and regulations allow the 1%, to take all. The government's role should not be to feed the people. It should be, to create conditions in which the people can feed themselves.


in a perfect world- we have a long way to go in both our countries. Poverty is difficult to overcome. No pat answers I am afraid.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What scares me about Wolf PAC is that the control is not in our power. We'd be putting our Constitution into the hands of the very people who oppress us now. Only in this case, they're not even answerable to the public. We could lose everything! I'm not willing to take that chance! I understand that our Constitution is being eroded on an ongoing basis. Governments like to ignore it and pass laws that go against it. But it's that one tiny straw that I cling to, in hope that someday, we can return to what we were meant to be, a free and powerful people. Wolf PAC could be a perfect and sincere organization, but that doesn't mean that a con con would come out in our favor. Those delegates to the con con could change any or all of the Constitution.
> 
> IMO, our best hope lies in making the masses open their eyes to the truth that neither party is on their side, that the deck is stacked against them. Until the masses recognize this, everything else is hopeless. Small groups of people cannot affect change of this magnitude. The masses need to stand and demand that change!


Sorry for my lack of Knowledge but what is Wolf PAC ?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that if you understood the ins and outs of a con con (constitutional convention) you would understand my point. If the states call for a con con, the people do not get to choose their delegates. The delegates are chosen by the party officials in each state. If you called for a con con to change a specific part of the constitution, those delegates are not bound to only changing that part. They can change any part, even if it is against the will of the people. I think we run too great a risk, trusting unelected delegates to "do the right thing". If the congress moves to amend the constitution, at least they are restrained by the fact that they have to run for reelection. Not so with unelected delegates.


But who said that a con con is the only way to effect change? Meaningful change has to start with the people and it will, by 'some' people, not the masses. People who are committed and will not back down. It's not the Constitution that needs to change in the short to medium term from where I'm sitting, it's the way elections are bought and sold which needs to change now. Get rid of the middle men lobbyists and get back to the grass roots, the way elections used to be way back. This is true in Australia as well. Our political parties are becoming the puppets of corporations and big money.

We are not represented as we should be. Too many other influences impinging on the rights of the people. It has to stop.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> But who said that a con con is the only way to effect change? Meaningful change has to start with the people and it will, by 'some' people, not the masses. People who are committed and will not back down. It's not the Constitution that needs to change in the short to medium term from where I'm sitting, it's the way elections are bought and sold which needs to change now. Get rid of the middle men lobbyists and get back to the grass roots, the way elections used to be way back. This is true in Australia as well. Our political parties are becoming the puppets of corporations and big money.
> 
> We are not represented as we should be. Too many other influences impinging on the rights of the people. It has to stop.


A constitutional convention is truly the only sure way to get money out of politics. You may be familiar with Citizens United, a supreme court case wherein it was decided that corporations are "people" with the right to free speech. Since a corporation can't actually speak, money speaks for them, so the court functionally gave corporations the UNLIMITED right to give money in political campaigns. This drowns out citizens' voices.

Since this decision was based on constitutional law, the states can't pass laws restricting campaign contributions - corporations would take it to court and they would win - based on the supreme court ruling. Federal campaign finance law was pretty much swept away by Citizens United. Efforts to influence our congressmen to amend the constitution met with out-and-out refusal. They like the money and don't want to offend their corporate lobbyists who have unlimited $$$ to hand out. Campaign contributions amounted to billions of dollars in the last election cycle.

Wolf-Pac is a nationwide grassroots organization dedicated to calling for a constitutional convention (as allowed under Article V) with the express, limited agenda of overturning Citizens United and the premise upon which it was based and also to providing for public funding of elections. This is not a "click "LIKE" if you agree" sort of thing. It will succeed because committed citizens (like me) will call and meet face-to-face with our state legislators to convince them it is in their best interest to amend the constitution and stop the travesty of corporate money and it's corrupting influence in politics. I have arranged for the state chairman of Wolf-Pac to speak to my local democratic club (I'm an officer) in January. I have also started working on getting access to my representative to the Arizona legislature through a mutual friend and I will meet with her to try to convince her to join the cause. She's a tea party devotee, so this may be difficult. I will try. I will also go on to the next legislator on the list and do the same. I will travel to Phoenix, if necessary; I will eat heaping platefuls of sh** in order to make MY voice, and the voices of those who agree, be heard.

If we don't do this, democracy very well may be doomed. I care about the future of my country. It's hard to convince people to stop bickering and arguing and actually DO something, but I have to try.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Sorry for my lack of Knowledge but what is Wolf PAC ?


See response to the Wombat.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote. My point was that we should demand that they bring the jobs back to reduce the need for assistance. If the people were employed in well paying jobs, very few would need or want to be on assistance. I have always advocated that those who cannot work should be taken care of, by the government. But there is no good reason for able bodied adults to be unemployed in a consumer nation such as this. The only reason, is greed on the part of those who want their goods made more cheaply, overseas. We shouldn't be settling for the crumbs of welfare (crumbs because its not much to try and live on), while some are draining everything out of this country. I don't advocate taking from the rich and giving to the poor. However, our current laws and regulations allow the 1%, to take all. The government's role should not be to feed the people. It should be, to create conditions in which the people can feed themselves.


And just how can the government do that without having to deal with another part of the government that wants it to do nothing and wants cuts to any program that attempts to create jobs? Remember: the government has never created a single job? Of course, that claim is BS, but the people who make it are in a position to prevent any further job creation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The constitution does NOT specifically say how delegates would be chosen. Please provide a source for your claim the delegates would be unelected.
> 
> The Wolf-Pac proposed petition says:
> 
> ...


I seriously can't find the sources I had a couple of years ago. I thought I'd bookmarked them but then, I've thousands of bookmarks. I don't have lots of time because I'm watching Max overnight. He's not cooperating with bedtime.

But I'll say this: the constitution doesn't specify how the delegates are chosen, only that they are chosen by the states. If you google it, you'll find that the majority of sites interpret that as meaning that the state legislators would choose the delegates. It sounds as if Wolf-Pac's petition wants to make the selection of delegates fair to the people. But do you really think that those in government, are going to let go of the power and give the people real choice? Call me jaded, but I don't think that's going to happen. They also think that they can limit the scope of the con con. I don't believe that will happen either. A group of republicans has been lobbying state legislators for a couple of years, trying to get them to call for a con con to pass a balanced budget amendment. It has a lot of support. Do you think that they won't insist on covering that as well? And when they do, someone else will come up with the next issue. There are no rules or limits on a con con. You can't call a con con and insist that they only address one issue. Politicians can't pass one single bill without adding to it. What makes you think that they could or would conduct a con con with a single issue agenda? I sure wouldn't trust them!

You say that an amendment would have to be passed by 3/4 of the states. I'd like to point out that it has to be passed by the DELEGATES of 3/4 of the states. The people have no say! Haven't politicians lied to you long enough to realize that they don't do what we want them to? They don't represent us! They represent those with the money to buy them off! I don't care who picks them. I don't trust them!

And lastly, history couldn't possibly support that a single agenda is the norm. There hasn't been a Constitutional Convention since the one conducted by the founders of this country. The congress and senate have made amendments to the Constitution, but that's not the same as a Constitutional Convention.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I find the use of the word "masses" is troubling. It puts a huge number of people in one group - no names, no personalities, no individuals, just a group of nameless faceless people. I don't care for thinking of people as a mass . Too many different individuals to make a 'mass'. It puts people in a box - and I hate that. It is what Stalin and Hitler called those they wanted to group together to destroy. I have never liked that word since the 2nd world war. It gives me shivers.


So then, call them something else! It doesn't change what I was trying to say.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I also have trouble with the "masses" thing. People receiving assistance are hardly "the masses." The masses work and work hard to make ends meet. These are SAFETY NET programs, primarily medical care and food. Hardly the "government providing for our every need" that we have heard from some. Remember, too, that wages have been stagnant for years and even those who work can't afford to take care of their medical needs in today' world. Food? I feel that is a basic right and in a country as wealth as ours, no one, NO ONE, should be hungry.
> 
> Statistics:
> 
> ...


I think that 32 million households of people could be considered masses! Did you miss my point that they'd all be better off with good paying jobs?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I seriously can't find the sources I had a couple of years ago. I thought I'd bookmarked them but then, I've thousands of bookmarks. I don't have lots of time because I'm watching Max overnight. He's not cooperating with bedtime.
> 
> But I'll say this: the constitution doesn't specify how the delegates are chosen, only that they are chosen by the states. If you google it, you'll find that the majority of sites interpret that as meaning that the state legislators would choose the delegates. It sounds as if Wolf-Pac's petition wants to make the selection of delegates fair to the people. But do you really think that those in government, are going to let go of the power and give the people real choice? Call me jaded, but I don't think that's going to happen. They also think that they can limit the scope of the con con. I don't believe that will happen either. A group of republicans has been lobbying state legislators for a couple of years, trying to get them to call for a con con to pass a balanced budget amendment. It has a lot of support. Do you think that they won't insist on covering that as well? And when they do, someone else will come up with the next issue. There are no rules or limits on a con con. You can't call a con con and insist that they only address one issue. Politicians can't pass one single bill without adding to it. What makes you think that they could or would conduct a con con with a single issue agenda? I sure wouldn't trust them!
> 
> ...


The states have to ratify an amendment - not the delegates. Just like Women's Suffrage, Prohibition, Repeal of Prohibition, etc. All amendments so far have been single issue.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> in a perfect world- we have a long way to go in both our countries. Poverty is difficult to overcome. No pat answers I am afraid.


Eliminating poverty starts with having jobs for the people. (There, I didn't call them the masses.)


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I seriously can't find the sources I had a couple of years ago. I thought I'd bookmarked them but then, I've thousands of bookmarks. I don't have lots of time because I'm watching Max overnight. He's not cooperating with bedtime.
> 
> But I'll say this: the constitution doesn't specify how the delegates are chosen, only that they are chosen by the states. If you google it, you'll find that the majority of sites interpret that as meaning that the state legislators would choose the delegates. It sounds as if Wolf-Pac's petition wants to make the selection of delegates fair to the people. But do you really think that those in government, are going to let go of the power and give the people real choice? Call me jaded, but I don't think that's going to happen. They also think that they can limit the scope of the con con. I don't believe that will happen either. A group of republicans has been lobbying state legislators for a couple of years, trying to get them to call for a con con to pass a balanced budget amendment. It has a lot of support. Do you think that they won't insist on covering that as well? And when they do, someone else will come up with the next issue. There are no rules or limits on a con con. You can't call a con con and insist that they only address one issue. Politicians can't pass one single bill without adding to it. What makes you think that they could or would conduct a con con with a single issue agenda? I sure wouldn't trust them!
> 
> ...


and the alternative? Wait for SCOTUS to see the error of their ways (as in Dred Scott)?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Sorry for my lack of Knowledge but what is Wolf PAC ?


It's a PAC (political action committee?) that Green is promoting. She could tell you more.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think that 32 million households of people could be considered masses! Did you miss my point that they'd all be better off with good paying jobs?


Of course not. I want everyone to share in prosperity and economic health.

We don't need to argue semantics - I interpret the meaning of "masses" to mean a large majority. Obviously you think in terms of a large number of people. We agree on the basic premise. Public assistance when truly needed. Jobs for everyone who wants to work. Jobs provide upward mobility, social stability, self respect, dignity and progress for everyone.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> But who said that a con con is the only way to effect change? Meaningful change has to start with the people and it will, by 'some' people, not the masses. People who are committed and will not back down. It's not the Constitution that needs to change in the short to medium term from where I'm sitting, it's the way elections are bought and sold which needs to change now. Get rid of the middle men lobbyists and get back to the grass roots, the way elections used to be way back. This is true in Australia as well. Our political parties are becoming the puppets of corporations and big money.
> 
> We are not represented as we should be. Too many other influences impinging on the rights of the people. It has to stop.


I never suggested that people couldn't effect change. But the discussion centered on calling a con con. That's what we were discussing, so that's what I was referring to.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's a PAC (political action committee?) that Green is promoting. She could tell you more.


Not a political action committee as in election campaigns - our purpose is not to get any one person elected, but to use the constitution to effect needed change. Free and fair elections is the ultimate goal.

Go to Wolf-Pac to learn more.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> A constitutional convention is truly the only sure way to get money out of politics. You may be familiar with Citizens United, a supreme court case wherein it was decided that corporations are "people" with the right to free speech. Since a corporation can't actually speak, money speaks for them, so the court functionally gave corporations the UNLIMITED right to give money in political campaigns. This drowns out citizens' voices.
> 
> Since this decision was based on constitutional law, the states can't pass laws restricting campaign contributions - corporations would take it to court and they would win - based on the supreme court ruling. Federal campaign finance law was pretty much swept away by Citizens United. Efforts to influence our congressmen to amend the constitution met with out-and-out refusal. They like the money and don't want to offend their corporate lobbyists who have unlimited $$$ to hand out. Campaign contributions amounted to billions of dollars in the last election cycle.
> 
> ...


How would a con con get money out of politics? Don't you think that the delegates will be bought and paid for, just like the congressmen and senators? You're more altruistic than I am. I don't expect those in control, to willingly give up that control.

While your talking to your tea party representative, ask her where she stands on a balanced budget amendment. Because you're more likely to get that from her, than an amendment that shuts off campaign funds.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> How would a con con get money out of politics? Don't you think that the delegates will be bought and paid for, just like the congressmen and senators? You're more altruistic than I am. I don't expect those in control, to willingly give up that control.
> 
> While your talking to your tea party representative, ask her where she stands on a balanced budget amendment. Because you're more likely to get that from her, than an amendment that shuts off campaign funds.


The balanced budget amendment would create gridlock. Not going to promote that - no way, no how.

Because almost 90% of ALL Americans want money out of politics, legislators have to listen. She may not be in favor, but I hope to convince her at least not to oppose. Remember, outlawing corporate money also means she will be relieved of the need to spend so much time begging for money and can feel good knowing the unions and the wealthy liberals will also be blocked from giving. This is a cross-partisan issue, not a liberal or conservative one.

Arizona already has a legislator committed to sponsoring the petition and a number of others on board. Two states have already passed the resolution and several others are close.

I have to be optimistic. I believe in the constitution and I see no other viable or realistic alternative.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And just how can the government do that without having to deal with another part of the government that wants it to do nothing and wants cuts to any program that attempts to create jobs? Remember: the government has never created a single job? Of course, that claim is BS, but the people who make it are in a position to prevent any further job creation.


You can fall for that whole "it's the republicans fault" thing, if you want. But then if you do, whose fault was it when the democrats were in control? They set us up to argue back and forth. That way, the blame never falls squarely on one party or another. Every time they fail to do right by the people, they just blame the other side. How convenient!

Some government jobs are obviously necessary. But stop and think about it. The money to pay for these employees comes right out of our own pockets! How is that helping us? We have a hard enough time supporting our own selves, and now we should pay thousands and thousands of people to work for the government? We need real jobs! We're a consumer nation. If we manufactured the goods we consume, our people would be put to work with real money. Not just money that we took from one pocket, to put in the other.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Of course not. I want everyone to share in prosperity and economic health.
> 
> We don't need to argue semantics - I interpret the meaning of "masses" to mean a large majority. Obviously you think in terms of a large number of people. We agree on the basic premise. Public assistance when truly needed. Jobs for everyone who wants to work. Jobs provide upward mobility, social stability, self respect, dignity and progress for everyone.


One minor point I would change. Public Assistance when truly needed. Jobs for everyone who wants to eat.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Not a political action committee as in election campaigns - our purpose is not to get any one person elected, but to use the constitution to effect needed change. Free and fair elections is the ultimate goal.
> 
> Go to Wolf-Pac to learn more.


They may not have as a goal, to elect someone. But it's still a political action committee. That's what PAC stands for.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> The balanced budget amendment would create gridlock. Not going to promote that - no way, no how.
> 
> Because almost 90% of ALL Americans want money out of politics, legislators have to listen. She may not be in favor, but I hope to convince her at least not to oppose. Remember, outlawing corporate money also means she will be relieved of the need to spend so much time begging for money and can feel good knowing the unions and the wealthy liberals will also be blocked from giving. This is a cross-partisan issue, not a liberal or conservative one.
> 
> ...


The disagreement lies in the fact that you THINK that we could have a con con that was limited in scope. I don't THINK so. I think calling a con con would be reckless. I think that we risk everything we value.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Apparently you didn't read everything I wrote. My point was that we should demand that they bring the jobs back to reduce the need for assistance. If the people were employed in well paying jobs, very few would need or want to be on assistance. I have always advocated that those who cannot work should be taken care of, by the government. But there is no good reason for able bodied adults to be unemployed in a consumer nation such as this. The only reason, is greed on the part of those who want their goods made more cheaply, overseas. We shouldn't be settling for the crumbs of welfare (crumbs because its not much to try and live on), while some are draining everything out of this country. I don't advocate taking from the rich and giving to the poor. However, our current laws and regulations allow the 1%, to take all. The government's role should not be to feed the people. It should be, to create conditions in which the people can feed themselves.


Knitter from Nebraska
I totally agree with this. Manufacturing needs to return to our soil and everyone should be employed and that is what all people really want. Capitalism as it is being used presently is like Communism, a FEW have everything and the rest little or nothing.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Not a political action committee as in election campaigns - our purpose is not to get any one person elected, but to use the constitution to effect needed change. Free and fair elections is the ultimate goal.
> 
> Go to Wolf-Pac to learn more.


DGreen
Thank you. I too will check on that. Free and fair is what is needed desperately.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> They may not have as a goal, to elect someone. But it's still a political action committee. That's what PAC stands for.


I thought that's what I said - not AS IN elections.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I totally agree with this. Manufacturing needs to return to our soil and everyone should be employed and that is what all people really want. Capitalism as it is being used presently is like Communism, a FEW have everything and the rest little or nothing.


Manufacturing as we knew it in the past will never return. The dynamics of globalization can't be turned back. Alvin Toffler predicted this back in the '70's and a lot of what he foresaw has come true. He said the US would stop being a manufacturing economy and would become an information economy. And here we are.

As for income/wealth inequality, study up on the reasons for it; get a copy of _Inequality for All_ and watch it. Explains a lot.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So then, call them something else! It doesn't change what I was trying to say.


Neb- I wasn't attacking you. I just have very unhappy memories about when people of certain backgrounds were never acknowledged just 'masses'. I Didn't mean you were wrong, I just speak what I feel here and that word is one I am uneasy with. there is no way you would know that. I am sorry I brought it up.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You can fall for that whole "it's the republicans fault" thing, if you want. But then if you do, whose fault was it when the democrats were in control? They set us up to argue back and forth. That way, the blame never falls squarely on one party or another. Every time they fail to do right by the people, they just blame the other side. How convenient!
> 
> Some government jobs are obviously necessary. But stop and think about it. The money to pay for these employees comes right out of our own pockets! How is that helping us? We have a hard enough time supporting our own selves, and now we should pay thousands and thousands of people to work for the government? We need real jobs! We're a consumer nation. If we manufactured the goods we consume, our people would be put to work with real money. Not just money that we took from one pocket, to put in the other.


Money going to people who have little of their own goes right into the economy. More money being spent means more demand for goods. But it takes government to get those first payments to prime the pump. And then it will take government to make it more profitable for manufacturers to make their products in the US rather than China.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In Arizona, the sentencing is a separate trial with the same jury. Jury could not agree on life or capital punishment. New trial called with new jury. (400 prospective jurors were called. It took awhile to convince prospective jury members that she was found guilty already.)

To my way of thinking, the crime was heinous enough to warrant the death penalty if any crime does. However, appeals, this trial, incarceration etc. are costing millions. I say minimize costs and forget the key.



Designer1234 said:


> I meant to comment and ask whether you had a message there, then other things took over my attention and I forgot. What is happening with her? Is she quietly serving her sentence or is there more coming up on HLN about her? She is a real piece of work.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> A constitutional convention is truly the only sure way to get money out of politics. You may be familiar with Citizens United, a supreme court case wherein it was decided that corporations are "people" with the right to free speech. Since a corporation can't actually speak, money speaks for them, so the court functionally gave corporations the UNLIMITED right to give money in political campaigns. This drowns out citizens' voices.
> 
> Since this decision was based on constitutional law, the states can't pass laws restricting campaign contributions - corporations would take it to court and they would win - based on the supreme court ruling. Federal campaign finance law was pretty much swept away by Citizens United. Efforts to influence our congressmen to amend the constitution met with out-and-out refusal. They like the money and don't want to offend their corporate lobbyists who have unlimited $$$ to hand out. Campaign contributions amounted to billions of dollars in the last election cycle.
> 
> ...


I stand corrected regarding the con con. However, you've validated my post in another way. As I said, change starts with a group of committed people who won't back down. You're one of them and you're to be congratulated for your passion about this. Are there others like you doing the same thing and what are their numbers?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen, I respect your passion and thank you from the bottom of my heart.



DGreen said:


> A constitutional convention is truly the only sure way to get money out of politics. You may be familiar with Citizens United, a supreme court case wherein it was decided that corporations are "people" with the right to free speech. Since a corporation can't actually speak, money speaks for them, so the court functionally gave corporations the UNLIMITED right to give money in political campaigns. This drowns out citizens' voices.
> 
> Since this decision was based on constitutional law, the states can't pass laws restricting campaign contributions - corporations would take it to court and they would win - based on the supreme court ruling. Federal campaign finance law was pretty much swept away by Citizens United. Efforts to influence our congressmen to amend the constitution met with out-and-out refusal. They like the money and don't want to offend their corporate lobbyists who have unlimited $$$ to hand out. Campaign contributions amounted to billions of dollars in the last election cycle.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I totally agree with this. Manufacturing needs to return to our soil and everyone should be employed and that is what all people really want. Capitalism as it is being used presently is like Communism, a FEW have everything and the rest little or nothing.


Isn't it funny how they've twisted both capitalism and communism until both begin to look the same? Not funny haha, funny sad!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I thought that's what I said - not AS IN elections.


Sorry. It sounded to me, like you were saying they weren't a political action committee.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Manufacturing as we knew it in the past will never return. The dynamics of globalization can't be turned back. Alvin Toffler predicted this back in the '70's and a lot of what he foresaw has come true. He said the US would stop being a manufacturing economy and would become an information economy. And here we are.
> 
> As for income/wealth inequality, study up on the reasons for it; get a copy of _Inequality for All_ and watch it. Explains a lot.


If we do nothing, manufacturing will not return. But what it we placed tariffs on imported goods to give goods manufactured in the US, an even playing field? I know that they'll never do it willingly, but we must insist in great numbers.

I'll check out "Inequality for all", but I think I already know what it'll say. Is that the vid you posted a link to? If so, I watched that and the other that someone else posted.

Here's the thing...there can be no recovery without jobs. If we don't do something to bring back the jobs, we're doomed! The government can't print enough money to support everyone! As things stand, the lobbyists for the major corporations have created (and gotten passed) laws and regulations that make it very difficult for anyone to start up any real competition. The only way that I can see to turn things around, is for all of us to recognize what's going on and insist that our (so called) representatives change things. If everybody could get past the two parties to see what's really going on, that would be a good place to start. There is power in two things...money and numbers. We don't have the money, but we could have the numbers.

They say ours has become a service economy. I guess that makes us servants! If we're servants, I guess we must have masters. That's not how this country was supposed to be! We must become our own masters again!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Neb- I wasn't attacking you. I just have very unhappy memories about when people of certain backgrounds were never acknowledged just 'masses'. I Didn't mean you were wrong, I just speak what I feel here and that word is one I am uneasy with. there is no way you would know that. I am sorry I brought it up.


Thank you. I thought you were attacking me for using the word "masses". I'll try to remember to use " the people" instead.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Isn't it funny how they've twisted both capitalism and communism until both begin to look the same? Not funny haha, funny sad!


No, it isn't, but you're spot on, Nebraska.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Money going to people who have little of their own goes right into the economy. More money being spent means more demand for goods. But it takes government to get those first payments to prime the pump. And then it will take government to make it more profitable for manufacturers to make their products in the US rather than China.


Yes, but that money is being funneled right back to those who've created the problem in the first place, ie Walmart. The money comes from us and goes to them. Somewhere in between, some people scrape out a subsistence living. There's got to be a better way!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> In Arizona, the sentencing is a separate trial with the same jury. Jury could not agree on life or capital punishment. New trial called with new jury. (400 prospective jurors were called. It took awhile to convince prospective jury members that she was found guilty already.)
> 
> To my way of thinking, the crime was heinous enough to warrant the death penalty if any crime does. However, appeals, this trial, incarceration etc. are costing millions. I say minimize costs and forget the key.


I don't know who you're talking about, but do they have to retry the entire case???


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If we do nothing, manufacturing will not return. But what it we placed tariffs on imported goods to give goods manufactured in the US, an even playing field? I know that they'll never do it willingly, but we must insist in great numbers.
> 
> I'll check out "Inequality for all", but I think I already know what it'll say. Is that the vid you posted a link to? If so, I watched that and the other that someone else posted.
> 
> ...


You can find "Inequality for All" on Netflicks. I borrowed the DVD from a friend. I think you will be surprised - this is not a lib vs. con piece.

Presented by Reisch, "Robert Bernard Reich is an American political economist, professor, author, and political commentator. He served in the administrations of Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter and was Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton from 1993 to 1997."

It clarified a lot of things for me, though it was a little depressing at times. Please do take the trouble to watch it. You will be glad you did.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I stand corrected regarding the con con. However, you've validated my post in another way. As I said, change starts with a group of committed people who won't back down. You're one of them and you're to be congratulated for your passion about this. Are there others like you doing the same thing and what are their numbers?


There's a group called ALEC who are working on getting the states to call for a con con, for the purpose of passing a balanced budget amendment. The last I read, 32 states had passed resolutions calling for a con con, but three states rescinded their resolutions.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know who you're talking about, but do they have to retry the entire case???


Jodi Arias murdered her boyfriend. Shot him, stabbed him about 25 times, nearly cut his head off. First claimed she wasn't even in Arizona at the time, then claimed he was victim of a home invasion or something. Funny, she even filled gasoline cans and put them in the trunk of her car to drive from LA to Phoenix to kill him so there would be no credit card record. Then she admitted to killing him, but said he abused her. Then she said she is mentally handicapped because of sexual abuse as a child. Said she wanted the death penalty, then changed her mind and wants to live to serve humanity and so her family will be spared horrible grief. Now she's appealing her conviction and somehow raking in money as she sits in jail.

The original jury could not agree on a penalty so the NEW jury has to be presented the facts. Which could take more months and more millions.

"As The Stomach Turns"


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There's a group called ALEC who are working on getting the states to call for a con con, for the purpose of passing a balanced budget amendment. The last I read, 32 states had passed resolutions calling for a con con, but three states rescinded their resolutions.


Be afraid. Be very afraid. The ALEC push is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about Wolf-Pac. If you are not familiar with ALEC, go to Wikipedia and read up. They are VERY, VERY bad and the agenda they have would end democracy. Period.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> DGreen, I respect your passion and thank you from the bottom of my heart.
> 
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


I too, respect Green for getting involved! I should have told her so! I think that calling for a con con is misguided and dangerous but I respect that she's doing something. The day will come, when we'll all have to stand up for something.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> You can find "Inequality for All" on Netflicks. I borrowed the DVD from a friend. I think you will be surprised - this is not a lib vs. con piece.
> 
> Presented by Reisch, "Robert Bernard Reich is an American political economist, professor, author, and political commentator. He served in the administrations of Presidents Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter and was Secretary of Labor under President Bill Clinton from 1993 to 1997."
> 
> It clarified a lot of things for me, though it was a little depressing at times. Please do take the trouble to watch it. You will be glad you did.


We don't have Netflix, so I guess I won't be watching it any time soon. However, Reich is a liberal economist, so how can this be non biased? Another question, Reich has been involved at the government level, so if his ideas are so great, why hasn't he installed change? Nothing was fixed during the reigns of Ford, Carter and Clinton. If he believes in his ideas, why didn't he do something about it? It seems to me that everyone who is or was part of government, is part of the problem, not the solution. We need new blood in government, people who haven't been bought.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Jodi Arias murdered her boyfriend. Shot him, stabbed him about 25 times, nearly cut his head off. First claimed she wasn't even in Arizona at the time, then claimed he was victim of a home invasion or something. Funny, she even filled gasoline cans and put them in the trunk of her car to drive from LA to Phoenix to kill him so there would be no credit card record. Then she admitted to killing him, but said he abused her. Then she said she is mentally handicapped because of sexual abuse as a child. Said she wanted the death penalty, then changed her mind and wants to live to serve humanity and so her family will be spared horrible grief. Now she's appealing her conviction and somehow raking in money as she sits in jail.
> 
> The original jury could not agree on a penalty so the NEW jury has to be presented the facts. Which could take more months and more millions.
> 
> "As The Stomach Turns"


So, at least they don't have to retry the entire case. The verdict will stand? I remember hearing about the case, but tried my best to not pay attention.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Be afraid. Be very afraid. The ALEC push is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about Wolf-Pac. If you are not familiar with ALEC, go to Wikipedia and read up. They are VERY, VERY bad and the agenda they have would end democracy. Period.


I agree with you BUT, calling for a con con will open the door for ALEC and anyone else. You can't limit the scope of a con con. They could do anything.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I gotta go play with Max. I'll check back later. Bye!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We don't have Netflix, so I guess I won't be watching it any time soon. However, Reich is a liberal economist, so how can this be non biased? Another question, Reich has been involved at the government level, so if his ideas are so great, why hasn't he installed change? Nothing was fixed during the reigns of Ford, Carter and Clinton. If he believes in his ideas, why didn't he do something about it? It seems to me that everyone who is or was part of government, is part of the problem, not the solution. We need new blood in government, people who haven't been bought.


Reisch started his political career under Nixon. Under Clinton, he fought hard for better policies but was rebuffed at every turn. His video presents facts plus opinion, but seeing your views I'm sure you will get a lot out of the video. NOT propaganda.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree with you BUT, calling for a con con will open the door for ALEC and anyone else. You can't limit the scope of a con con. They could do anything.


ALEC wants their OWN con-con. Their agenda, and it's bad.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So, at least they don't have to retry the entire case. The verdict will stand? I remember hearing about the case, but tried my best to not pay attention.


Evidently, they do have to re-try the case so they will understand motives, etc. The verdict will stand unless she wins a new trial and is found not guilty.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Be afraid. Be very afraid. The ALEC push is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about Wolf-Pac. If you are not familiar with ALEC, go to Wikipedia and read up. They are VERY, VERY bad and the agenda they have would end democracy. Period.


Good morning. I haven't been around much, but I'm glad to see some of you are still here making a ton of sense and touting my "boyfriend," Robert Reich. I have to admit that I still have the last half of "Inequality" to watch, but Robert says EVERYTHING very well in plain, concrete English. It's too bad the people who need to read and watch him the most have probably never heard of him.
Carry on!
P.S. my avatar is Lucy's selfie.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO Robert Reich is brilliant. At least read his comments. Disregard him at your peril.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We don't have Netflix, so I guess I won't be watching it any time soon. However, Reich is a liberal economist, so how can this be non biased? Another question, Reich has been involved at the government level, so if his ideas are so great, why hasn't he installed change? Nothing was fixed during the reigns of Ford, Carter and Clinton. If he believes in his ideas, why didn't he do something about it? It seems to me that everyone who is or was part of government, is part of the problem, not the solution. We need new blood in government, people who haven't been bought.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The verdict is under appeal and will be until the lawyers give up and/or they don't get paid, or if they can't think of a way to make money on a book deal. This is going to be around for awhile. Sex, murder, lies, betrayal. All the things the insatiable public wants to read.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> So, at least they don't have to retry the entire case. The verdict will stand? I remember hearing about the case, but tried my best to not pay attention.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Good morning. I haven't been around much, but I'm glad to see some of you are still here making a ton of sense and touting my "boyfriend," Robert Reich. I have to admit that I still have the last half of "Inequality" to watch, but Robert says EVERYTHING very well in plain, concrete English. It's too bad the people who need to read and watch him the most have probably never heard of him.
> Carry on!
> P.S. my avatar is Lucy's selfie.


Reich is brilliant!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And she walks among us. IMHO this is a reason to keep the case in your radar.



DGreen said:


> Evidently, they do have to re-try the case so they will understand motives, etc. The verdict will stand unless she wins a new trial and is found not guilty.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lucy is the cutest, smartest.....but I still love Hiro too.



cookiequeen said:


> Good morning. I haven't been around much, but I'm glad to see some of you are still here making a ton of sense and touting my "boyfriend," Robert Reich. I have to admit that I still have the last half of "Inequality" to watch, but Robert says EVERYTHING very well in plain, concrete English. It's too bad the people who need to read and watch him the most have probably never heard of him.
> Carry on!
> P.S. my avatar is Lucy's selfie.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Reisch started his political career under Nixon. Under Clinton, he fought hard for better policies but was rebuffed at every turn. His video presents facts plus opinion, but seeing your views I'm sure you will get a lot out of the video. NOT propaganda.


I found it on you tube. I'll watch it now and get back to you. ;-)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If we do nothing, manufacturing will not return. But what it we placed tariffs on imported goods to give goods manufactured in the US, an even playing field? I know that they'll never do it willingly, but we must insist in great numbers.
> 
> I'll check out "Inequality for all", but I think I already know what it'll say. Is that the vid you posted a link to? If so, I watched that and the other that someone else posted.
> 
> ...


Manufacturing will never come back to the US but will remain in China as long as we owe them zillions of dollars.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Manufacturing will never come back to the US but will remain in China as long as we owe them zillions of dollars.


It is not only China. Jobs will go to countries that invest in education and that are efficient. Trades requiring skilled workers go begging for qualified employees. When our government makes a profit on student loans instead of subsidizing and encouraging higher learning, there is a problem. Dumbing down of America and our work force - courtesy of the extreme right.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There's a group called ALEC who are working on getting the states to call for a con con, for the purpose of passing a balanced budget amendment. The last I read, 32 states had passed resolutions calling for a con con, but three states rescinded their resolutions.


The "group called ALEC" is a very right-wing group writing state legislation that furthers its own agenda. If ALEC is for it, I'm agin it.

And please allow me to say that the phrase "con con" sets my teeth on edge. I know it's shorter than "constitutional convention," but it seems to trivialize the process. Use what you need to use, but wouldn't CC be even easier to type and less demeaning?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The "group called ALEC" is a very right-wing group writing state legislation that furthers its own agenda. If ALEC is for it, I'm agin it.
> 
> And please allow me to say that the phrase "con con" sets my teeth on edge. I know it's shorter than "constitutional convention," but it seems to trivialize the process. Use what you need to use, but wouldn't CC be even easier to type and less demeaning?


Thanks, Purl. CC is a much better abbreviation. Con-con sounds like baby talk.

I posted a copy of the ALEC agenda for a CC along with comments some time ago. Seems it went over a lot of heads because it's unspeakably bad.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Reisch started his political career under Nixon. Under Clinton, he fought hard for better policies but was rebuffed at every turn. His video presents facts plus opinion, but seeing your views I'm sure you will get a lot out of the video. NOT propaganda.


Clinton was much more in tune with the other Robert in his cabinet, Robert Rubin, Sec. of the Treasury. Reich was only Sec. of Labor. Rubin has gone on to greater things, including chairmanship of Citigroup, which paid above minimum wage. You can tell how successful he's been by how good his hair is; Reich's not so much.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Good morning. I haven't been around much, but I'm glad to see some of you are still here making a ton of sense and touting my "boyfriend," Robert Reich. I have to admit that I still have the last half of "Inequality" to watch, but Robert says EVERYTHING very well in plain, concrete English. It's too bad the people who need to read and watch him the most have probably never heard of him.
> Carry on!
> P.S. my avatar is Lucy's selfie.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Lucy is very cute.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The verdict is under appeal and will be until the lawyers give up and/or they don't get paid, or if they can't think of a way to make money on a book deal. This is going to be around for awhile. Sex, murder, lies, betrayal. All the things the insatiable public wants to read.


Jodi is so much more interesting than Psycho Killer Cheryl, and way prettier, too.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

For those who missed it, I am re-posting comments from the "Income Inequality" thread. I know it's long, but important information to know.

I don't know how many of us is familiar with ALEC - the American Legislative Exchange Council. It is nothing more than an organization of lobbyists who wine and dine legislators from across the country under the guise of "education" and seminars. Members "pay" dues which are nominal ($50 a year) - then are treated to vacations at posh resorts, lavish meals and even child care. ALEC spent over a quarter of a million dollars on free child care alone at one recent convention. The legislators go back home with pre-written legislation in hand, proposing bills that cater to the extreme right, the Tea Party and the 1%. 
Legislators have slavishly introduced and fought for these bills; among them the nefarious one in Arizona that would have legalized discrimination against gays and incidentally, would have the effect of gutting civil rights for all protected groups if the discriminator merely claimed sincere religious belief. One of their pre-written bills was passed in Arizona two weeks ago - any citizen or legislator in Arizona can now file a claim against any federal agency if they believe regulations are unconstitutional. Of course, there will be claims which the Federal government will fight in court and win - but not before millions of dollars in taxpayer's money will be spent defending our claims.

Whether or not one agrees with the intent or content of these bills, the fact that they have been written by lobbyists should be alarming to us all. Our representatives should be listening to their constituents and if that is what the voters find important, then so be it. This is an example of dark money and corporate interests stirring up divisive issues on one hand and sneaking in laws that benefit them on the other. This is wrong.

I have mentioned the plan for a constitutional convention numerous times in the last day or two. Others find this idea frightening and dangerous. Let me make this clear - if you find citizens demanding a constitutional amendment scary, what ALEC has up its sleeve is terrifying. They are mounting their own campaign for a CC, and following is their proposed agenda:
*****************

1.) Term limits: Levin proposes limiting the tenure of Senators and Representatives to no more than 12 years.

2.) Repealing the 17th Amendment: Levin argues in favor of repealing the 17th Amendment, thus returning the election of U.S. Senators to state legislatures. The 17th Amendment was ratified during the American progressive movement as a way of giving power to the people, but Levin argues its repeal would ensure that state sovereignty is protected.

3.) Judiciary Power Check: Levin proposes 12-year term limits for justices of the Supreme Court. Additionally, he proposes creating a procedure for Congress and the state legislatures to overturn court decisions with a three-fifths vote.

4.) Limitation of Taxation and Spending: Levins balanced budget amendment would cap federal spending at 17.5 percent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and require a super majority, or three-fifths vote, of Congress to raise the debt ceiling. In addition, he proposes limiting the federal governments ability to tax individuals at 15 percent. On the cheekier side, he proposes moving tax day to the day before federal elections.

5.) Reining in Regulations and Bureacracy: Levin proposes an amendment to require all federal agencies to be subjected to stand-alone reauthorization every three years. He also proposes an automatic sunset provision for all federal regulations.

6.) Cabining the Commerce Clause: Levins proposed amendment would clarify that the Commerce Clause does not delegate supreme regulatory authority to the federal government.

7.) Limiting the federal governments power to confiscate private property.

8.) Make it easier for states to amend the Constitution: Under this amendment, only two-thirds, rather than three-fourths, of states would need to vote in favor of proposing an amendment.

9.) Giving states the ability to override Congress: Levins proposal would allow states to overdie federal law by a majority vote in two-thirds of state legislatures.

10.) Election Integrity: The last of Levins amendments would enact a nationwide photo ID requirement for federal elections and establish limits on early voting.
Read more at http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2f_1384695404#ieKCq3PVMDdhwm2Z.99

******************
One by one:
Item 2: This would mean citizens no longer could choose their senators. Senators have an enormous amount of power in Washington. Sovereignty? Nothing to do with that - but it has everything to do with stripping citizens of their voice. (By the way, Arizona is already trying to do this but have not been successful so far)
Item 3: This would politicize the Supreme Court and mean that SCOTUS would be swayed by public opinion instead of basing decisions on constitutional law. Checks and balances provided by the court would be destroyed. 
Item 4: This would paralyze government. Period. Also would necessitate increased taxes or spending cuts when economy is down, creating a further downturn when economy needs stimulus.
Item 5: Further paralysis of government. Remember, we depend on government agencies for our safety and well-being. The targets are doubtless the Forest Service, BLM and EPA. But we depend on federal regulations for many aspects of our safety and well being that we all agree are necessary. Food safety, air traffic safety, the post office; the list is a long one. Think of the legislative gridlock that would ensue if this passed. Just keeping the country running would require an avalanche of legislation; in the meantime, addressing the future would come to a complete standstill.
Item 6: States Rights again. I'm thinking that Cliven Bundy would love this one. Imagine the checkerboard of regulations that would come out of this. 
Item 7: Not sure of the intent here. Confiscation of property is a real problem. But, in view of the other agenda items and the nature of the proposal, this probably would not be a good thing.
Item 8: Making it easier to amend the constitution is unacceptable. Would it help big money? 
Item 9: Another attempt to disenfranchise voters. Why would lobbyists want to do that? 
Item 1: Again, I don't know the intent of this. Many people favor term limits but any attempt to do this should come from the citizens, not some lobbying group. Perhaps this would make it easier for big money to replace legislators who don't play along...?

My conclusion is that we, as citizens, need to take matters into our own hands before ALEC and big money work up a head of steam on their agenda.
Comments?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Dreaded double post


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> It is not only China. Jobs will go to countries that invest in education and that are efficient. Trades requiring skilled workers go begging for qualified employees. When our government makes a profit on student loans instead of subsidizing and encouraging higher learning, there is a problem. Dumbing down of America and our work force - courtesy of the extreme right.


Well, look what happened when public universities were free, or nearly so. Berkeley? No wonder Reagan stopped that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Reisch started his political career under Nixon. Under Clinton, he fought hard for better policies but was rebuffed at every turn. His video presents facts plus opinion, but seeing your views I'm sure you will get a lot out of the video. NOT propaganda.


What was on you tube were interviews with Reich about "Inequality for all". I watched a Bill Moyer's interview and at least got the gist if what Reich is espousing.

I agree with his identification of the problem. He spoke little about his proposed solutions. I absolutely agree that Glass Steagall should be reinstated! I agree that banks should be limited in size. I agree that we need to get big money out of politics, but he doesn't detail how we can, or should do that. He spoke of the biggest corporations such as Walmart and McDonalds. He thinks they could pay more without raising their prices, because of their competitive nature. I think he's being unrealistic here. I think that they WOULD raise their prices because of their greedy nature. He spoke of raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. I'd be all for it if I thought it would help. But history has proven that when minimum wage increases, the cost of goods and services rises accordingly. Non minimum wage earners now have to pay higher prices without the corresponding increase on pay. He wants high income earners to pay 52% income taxes. I don't think that anybody should have to give the government half of what they earn. Other than those items, he didn't put forth any other solutions. IMO, those solutions would be inadequate to fix what's wrong with our country.

One of the biggest problems as I see it, is that the "grown up" jobs have left the country. Our grown ups are having to accept what used to be our teenager jobs. Nobody can support a family on wages from Walmart, McDonalds or waitressing at a restaurant. We can't be a country of servants. We've got to aspire to more.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> It is not only China. Jobs will go to countries that invest in education and that are efficient. Trades requiring skilled workers go begging for qualified employees. When our government makes a profit on student loans instead of subsidizing and encouraging higher learning, there is a problem. Dumbing down of America and our work force - courtesy of the extreme right.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, look what happened when public universities were free, or nearly so. Berkeley? No wonder Reagan stopped that. And people like me, who got overeducated with free tuition but can't do a thing?


You make the world a better place. Good enough for me.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Reich is brilliant!


One has to wonder why, when he was in government, why didn't he take advantage of his position and institute the changes he feels are necessary. Perhaps because the adminstations he was involved with, were just as corrupt as the others. He danced around the issue of NAFTA, said he has regrets, but wouldn't speak to why Clinton wanted it so badly.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> And she walks among us. IMHO this is a reason to keep the case in your radar.


She's not being held??? After a guilty verdict???


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Reich has many solutions. Not simple answers to complex questions. Also he has studied the problems as an economist with contact with the highest echelons in DC. Regulation is not a bad word. It is part of the solution. You're right about Glass Steagall. Keep digging. You're on the right track.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What was on you tube were interviews with Reich about "Inequality for all". I watched a Bill Moyer's interview and at least got the gist if what Reich is espousing.
> 
> I agree with his identification of the problem. He spoke little about his proposed solutions. I absolutely agree that Glass Steagall should be reinstated! I agree that banks should be limited in size. I agree that we need to get big money out of politics, but he doesn't detail how we can, or should do that. He spoke of the biggest corporations such as Walmart and McDonalds. He thinks they could pay more without raising their prices, because of their competitive nature. I think he's being unrealistic here. I think that they WOULD raise their prices because of their greedy nature. He spoke of raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour. I'd be all for it if I thought it would help. But history has proven that when minimum wage increases, the cost of goods and services rises accordingly. Non minimum wage earners now have to pay higher prices without the corresponding increase on pay. He wants high income earners to pay 52% income taxes. I don't think that anybody should have to give the government half of what they earn. Other than those items, he didn't put forth any other solutions. IMO, those solutions would be inadequate to fix what's wrong with our country.
> 
> One of the biggest problems as I see it, is that the "grown up" jobs have left the country. Our grown ups are having to accept what used to be our teenager jobs. Nobody can support a family on wages from Walmart, McDonalds or waitressing at a restaurant. We can't be a country of servants. We've got to aspire to more.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Manufacturing will never come back to the US but will remain in China as long as we owe them zillions of dollars.


Good point! I know that's a consideration, but I don't think we can support our people on service and restaurant jobs. Or should I say, servant jobs?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree that Repubs do not have all the corruption. The big money puts sizable contributions on all sides. If you ONLY look at monetary gains, Clinton's administration did a bang up job. Everything else? Not so good.

Remember the past but look to the future. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> One has to wonder why, when he was in government, why didn't he take advantage of his position and institute the changes he feels are necessary. Perhaps because the adminstations he was involved with, were just as corrupt as the others. He danced around the issue of NAFTA, said he has regrets, but wouldn't speak to why Clinton wanted it so badly.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> It is not only China. Jobs will go to countries that invest in education and that are efficient. Trades requiring skilled workers go begging for qualified employees. When our government makes a profit on student loans instead of subsidizing and encouraging higher learning, there is a problem. Dumbing down of America and our work force - courtesy of the extreme right.


The jobs that used to be the backbone of this country, didn't require higher education. They relyed upon "on the job training". We've an absolute glut of college educated people who can't get jobs in their fields. They're being forced into the service (servant) industry as well.

I agree that Americans are being dumbed down! But I think it's intentional! All the dumbed down people will be happy to serve others, right? They won't expect as much. They'll think that this is all they could ever hope for! Happy peasants!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sorry. I should have said, she may still walk among us. We're safe for the moment. Note, she has lots of fans.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She's not being held??? After a guilty verdict???


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Silicon Valley creativity is a high point, something USA does very well. Security is a never-ending challenge. Our patents mean nothing to China, North Korea, Iran, Syria. Onward. Faster. Better.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Good point! I know that's a consideration, but I don't think we can support our people on service and restaurant jobs. Or should I say, servant jobs?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The "group called ALEC" is a very right-wing group writing state legislation that furthers its own agenda. If ALEC is for it, I'm agin it.
> 
> And please allow me to say that the phrase "con con" sets my teeth on edge. I know it's shorter than "constitutional convention," but it seems to trivialize the process. Use what you need to use, but wouldn't CC be even easier to type and less demeaning?


ALEC is a lobbying group with an agenda. That alone, causes me to be wary. I agree with some of what they want but I'd never trust them to only do what they say they'll do. IMO, they're no different than any other lobbing group. They get their money from the big money people, and that's who they represent.

I don't see the term "con con" as being any more trivializing than CC. But I'll try to remember to type it all out, so as not to offend you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't waste too much time on what you've heard is wrong now. IMHO



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The jobs that used to be the backbone of this country, didn't require higher education. They relyed upon "on the job training". We've an absolute glut of college educated people who can't get jobs in their fields. They're being forced into the service (servant) industry as well.
> 
> I agree that Americans are being dumbed down! But I think it's intentional! All the dumbed down people will be happy to serve others, right? They won't expect as much. They'll think that this is all they could ever hope for! Happy peasants!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Jodi is so much more interesting than Psycho Killer Cheryl, and way prettier, too.


I've not understood why the killers came up, in the conversation. I must have missed something. Was there relevance or was it just a lark?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The larks were singing.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've not understood why the killers came up, in the conversation. I must have missed something. Was there relevance or was it just a lark?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She's not being held??? After a guilty verdict???


She's in jail.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ALEC is a lobbying group with an agenda. That alone, causes me to be wary. I agree with some of what they want but I'd never trust them to only do what they say they'll do. IMO, they're no different than any other lobbing group. They get their money from the big money people, and that's who they represent.
> 
> I don't see the term "con con" as being any more trivializing than CC. But I'll try to remember to type it all out, so as not to offend you.


ALEC is a lobbying group founded/backed by the Kochs and big business in general. They are FAR different from other groups - they author legislation and spread money liberally to see it gets passed or at least proposed. They are BIG proponents of privatization of education and prisons - think of the public funds to be raided there. They are VERY organized. Fortunately for us, many big companies have been withdrawing membership because they are too extreme.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> For those who missed it, I am re-posting comments from the "Income Inequality" thread. I know it's long, but important information to know.
> 
> I don't know how many of us is familiar with ALEC - the American Legislative Exchange Council. It is nothing more than an organization of lobbyists who wine and dine legislators from across the country under the guise of "education" and seminars. Members "pay" dues which are nominal ($50 a year) - then are treated to vacations at posh resorts, lavish meals and even child care. ALEC spent over a quarter of a million dollars on free child care alone at one recent convention. The legislators go back home with pre-written legislation in hand, proposing bills that cater to the extreme right, the Tea Party and the 1%.
> Legislators have slavishly introduced and fought for these bills; among them the nefarious one in Arizona that would have legalized discrimination against gays and incidentally, would have the effect of gutting civil rights for all protected groups if the discriminator merely claimed sincere religious belief. One of their pre-written bills was passed in Arizona two weeks ago - any citizen or legislator in Arizona can now file a claim against any federal agency if they believe regulations are unconstitutional. Of course, there will be claims which the Federal government will fight in court and win - but not before millions of dollars in taxpayer's money will be spent defending our claims.
> ...


First let me preface by saying that I'm not a supporter of ALEC, or any other lobbying group! But I'll give my opinion on a couple of these points.

I think there SHOULD be term limits! The career politicians have been bought. They hold the power, and that power has been sold. We should have new people in so that no one gains a stronghold. Ideally, they'd all come into office, with their plans to improve things and not be concerned about raising the money to hold their positions.

We've got to limit spending. Spending money we don't have is like stealing the money right out of the people's wallets. It causes inflation which causes people to suffer. People need to understand that prices go up, because of inflation, not an increase in costs of a product. The dollar has lost 90% of it's value since the inception of the federal reserve. Soon, it will be worthless!

Regulations are necessary. But we shouldn't be allowing corporate lobbyists to set the agenda for regulations that favor them. Regulations should be for the good of all.

The commerce clause should only deal with commerce.

The power should reside with the states! If the federal government becomes corrupt, the states should have the ability to overturn unfair legislation.

We need election integrity! No matter how big or how small, election fraud should be eliminated! Period!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Silicon Valley creativity is a high point, something USA does very well. Security is a never-ending challenge. Our patents mean nothing to China, North Korea, Iran, Syria. Onward. Faster. Better.


Silicon Valley USED to be a high point. It seems now, that all of our intellectual property goes directly overseas. Only the corporations benefit from it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> The larks were singing.


 :lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> ALEC is a lobbying group founded/backed by the Kochs and big business in general. They are FAR different from other groups - they author legislation and spread money liberally to see it gets passed or at least proposed. They are BIG proponents of privatization of education and prisons - think of the public funds to be raided there. They are VERY organized. Fortunately for us, many big companies have been withdrawing membership because they are too extreme.


Sounds just like ALL lobbying groups! I am not deceived by them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Look at the money.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sounds just like ALL lobbying groups! I am not deceived by them.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Jodi is so much more interesting than Psycho Killer Cheryl, and way prettier, too.


But I am warming to the idea of adopting Cheryl Holland as our group maskot.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Manufacturing will never come back to the US but will remain in China as long as we owe them zillions of dollars.


SQM
the latest report is that China is investing on a large scale in property in Detroit. What is not to like about that? Dollars coming back here.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> the latest report is that China is investing on a large scale in property in Detroit. What is not to like about that? Dollars coming back here.


Hi Huckle,

What is wrong is that China seems to have a monopoly on manufacturing in the states and their products suck for the most part.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hi Huckle,
> 
> What is wrong is that China seems to have a monopoly on manufacturing in the states and their products suck for the most part.


SQM
".......manufacturing in the states"? They still manufacture in China and true most of their products are of poor quality but as long as we buy, they produce and ship here.

I am happy for little favors. All things start small. Don't buy "made in China". Support USA made and don't be too cheap and pay a little more.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> First let me preface by saying that I'm not a supporter of ALEC, or any other lobbying group! But I'll give my opinion on a couple of these points.
> 
> I think there SHOULD be term limits! The career politicians have been bought. They hold the power, and that power has been sold. We should have new people in so that no one gains a stronghold. Ideally, they'd all come into office, with their plans to improve things and not be concerned about raising the money to hold their positions.
> 
> ...


Term limits should be initiated by the citizens. I'm suspicious of ALEC's motives. As for being bought - public funding of elections with severe penalties for any bribery, is one way of handling what you mention.

Limiting spending CANNOT be accomplished by constitutional amendment. It must be managed by our elected officials and be flexible enough to respond to contemporary realities. Government shutdowns would become commonplace if some arbitrary limit were set in stone. See paragraph above.

State sovereignty over the federal government has always been a bad idea and still is. Corruption? Other ways to deal with it.

Election fraud? What part of that are you specifically referring to? Big money? Voter fraud?

Regulations that favor corporations? Get the money out of politics. Period.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ALEC is a lobbying group with an agenda. That alone, causes me to be wary. I agree with some of what they want but I'd never trust them to only do what they say they'll do. IMO, they're no different than any other lobbing group. They get their money from the big money people, and that's who they represent.
> 
> I don't see the term "con con" as being any more trivializing than CC. But I'll try to remember to type it all out, so as not to offend you.


Most other lobbyists are single-industry focused, but ALEC is not industry-focused; it's right-wing agenda focused.

Please don't spell it out for me. If you don't see the difference between CC and con con, follow your heart. But it reminds me of the French dance in which the women lift up their skirts, with no underwear on. The can can.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Most other lobbyists are single-industry focused, but ALEC is not industry-focused; it's right-wing agenda focused.
> 
> Please don't spell it out for me. If you don't see the difference between CC and con con, follow your heart. But it reminds me of the French dance in which the women lift up their skirts, with no underwear on. The can can.


I didn't know they had no underwear on! :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sounds just like ALL lobbying groups! I am not deceived by them.


I'm not, either. But plenty of lawmakers are enamored with ALEC, attend their conventions and trot right back to their home states with lobbyist-written legislation and their pockets full of cash. They don't even bother to change the wording before they sponsor legislation. In Arizona the majority of our lawmakers belong. No wonder the rest of the country sees us as wackos. I worked HARD this last election to get progressives in office - we were overwhelmed by dark money, particularly the Corporation Commission. Charged with regulating utilities, two were easily elected to "serve" the public after receiving millions from the very utilities they will regulate. It makes me sick.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't know they had no underwear on! :shock: :shock: :shock:


Why do audiences even in the movies shout and cheer when they turn their backs and lift up their skirts? Because they like the colorful underpants?

Editing: Apparently I was wrong. According to wikipedia, they wore elaborate underwear, even embroidering hearts on the seats. oops:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't know they had no underwear on! :shock: :shock: :shock:


They only wore underwear for the Ed Sullivan Show.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> You make the world a better place. Good enough for me.


me too. You have added a lot to my life and I value you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

And here we go again. Mr. Garner was killed for a minor infraction and the Killer(s) go free once more. I am almost glad that the Grand Jury did not indict anyone. That truly will bring the whole issue into real focus and hopefully something positive will come from it. Sometimes we need to get VERY angry in order to get attention. And angry we are for sure and won't let this slide any longer. Equal treatment and equal justice for all is a must.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> And here we go again. Mr. Garner was killed for a minor infraction and the Killer(s) go free once more. I am almost glad that the Grand Jury did not indict anyone. That truly will bring the whole issue into real focus and hopefully something positive will come from it. Sometimes we need to get VERY angry in order to get attention. And angry we are for sure and won't let this slide any longer. Equal treatment and equal justice for all is a must.


You believe in justice?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You believe in justice?


Country Bumpkins
Boy, do I believe in Justice. Sounds like you don't. Am I evaluating you correctly?


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> Boy, do I believe in Justice. Sounds like you don't. Am I evaluating you correctly?


No.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> They only wore underwear for the Ed Sullivan Show.


They always wore underwear but when they were dancing it was still considered very risque'. I The under pants were all decorated with lace and appliques of hearts and flowers if I remember it correctly. Remember they weren't seen throughout north America by many until there was television. I remember in the 50's we had a black and white with rabbit ears. Many people still couldn't afford them then.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> They always wore underwear but when they were dancing it was still considered very risque'. I The under pants were all decorated with lace and appliques of hearts and flowers if I remember it correctly. Remember they weren't seen throughout north America by many until there was television. I remember in the 50's we had a black and white with rabbit ears. Many people still couldn't afford them then.


In Paris, the Can Can dancers would dance without their knickers. That was what made it such a scandal.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> Boy, do I believe in Justice. Sounds like you don't. Am I evaluating you correctly?


Huck, we all believe in Justice in our group in my opinion. I know we do on the left- that is what we fight for- I think that the time is coming when Justice will be served. Right now things are heating up and it is scary. People are starting to demand Justice for all. Not just White people. It is very frightening and I wonder what is going to happen if even one more Black teenager is murdered there by the Police. There has to be fair treatment for all. 
So sad. I hope that Police Departments, State Politicians, Mayors of cities, Police Officers, and anyone who serves the Public start taking a good look at what is happenng.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> In Paris, the Can Can dancers would dance without their knickers. That was what made it such a scandal.


Maybe in Paris but not in the States from what I can find out. Quite possibly you are correct about France. I never considered that SQM. Remember the movie Moulin Rouge? It was so well done - The acting in it was spectacular. This discussion reminded me how much I enjoyed that movie.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Maybe in Paris but not in the States from what I can find out. Quite possibly you are correct about France. I never considered that SQM. Remember the movie Moulin Rouge? It was so well done - The acting in it was spectacular. This discussion reminded me how much I enjoyed that movie.


And that is where the ladies debuted. What I like about can can dancers is that they don't get their knickers in a twist. (groan)


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> And that is where the ladies debuted. What I like about can can dancers is that they don't get their knickers in a twist. (groan)


groan. :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Who/ what is our group?



SQM said:


> But I am warming to the idea of adopting Cheryl Holland as our group maskot.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Most other lobbyists are single-industry focused, but ALEC is not industry-focused; it's right-wing agenda focused.
> 
> Please don't spell it out for me. If you don't see the difference between CC and con con, follow your heart. But it reminds me of the French dance in which the women lift up their skirts, with no underwear on. The can can.


The con con can can?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I didn't know they had no underwear on! :shock: :shock: :shock:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You believe in justice?


You don't??????????????? Yes I believe in justice.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> In Paris, the Can Can dancers would dance without their knickers. That was what made it such a scandal.


That's what I thought, but wikipedia said fancy undies.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The con con can can?


groan groan


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's what I thought, but wikipedia said fancy undies.


What does wiki know? Unreliable source.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That was just for you, you know.



Poor Purl said:


> groan groan


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I researched can can further and discovered that it was danced in brothels so you can imagine what that was like. Also women of that era wore open crotches so you can imagine what that was like.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I researched can can further and discovered that it was danced in brothels so you can imagine what that was like. Also women of that era wore open crotches so you can imagine what that was like.


That's true. Until late in the 19th c., at least in England, a woman who wore underpants was considered loose.

Have we heated things up enough?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> And that is where the ladies debuted. What I like about can can dancers is that they don't get their knickers in a twist. (groan)


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hasn't done a thing for me.



Poor Purl said:


> That's true. Until late in the 19th c., at least in England, a woman who wore underpants was considered loose.
> 
> Have we heated things up enough?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hasn't done a thing for me.


You're already a fallen woman. Maybe you can learn a thing or two from


Or from


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're already a fallen woman. Maybe you can learn a thing or two from
> 
> 
> Or from


Bite your tongue, Purl--or would some consider that too provocative?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Bite your tongue, Purl--or would some consider that too provocative?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Anyone paying attention to the Peggy Young case that is at the Supreme Court? A young pregnant woman who worked for UPS was advised by her I obgyn to not lift over 20 lbs during the pregnancy. She requested lighter duty work, but UPS fired her.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Anyone paying attention to the Peggy Young case that is at the Supreme Court? A young pregnant woman who worked for UPS was advised by her I obgyn to not lift over 20 lbs during the pregnancy. She requested lighter duty work, but UPS fired her.


UPS will claim she could not perform the essential duties of the job. If they did not have another suitable position available, they are probably within their rights to fire her. There is a limit to the accommodation businesses are required to give.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Should be interesting to see the decision and discussion points.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I researched can can further and discovered that it was danced in brothels so you can imagine what that was like. Also women of that era wore open crotches so you can imagine what that was like.


I don't want to!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Country Bumpkins
> Boy, do I believe in Justice. Sounds like you don't. Am I evaluating you correctly?


I wonder why she asked that? Does she, or does she think Justice is happening with Police departments, now? Not sure what she was saying.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> UPS will claim she could not perform the essential duties of the job. If they did not have another suitable position available, they are probably within their rights to fire her. There is a limit to the accommodation businesses are required to give.


Frankly, I'm amazed the anti-abortion crowd isn't throwing their efforts into cases like this one. Financial stress is, I believe, the most commonly cited reason for choosing to end a pregnancy. Businesses may not be legally compelled to accommodate pregnant women, but there certainly would be fewer abortions if they were.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Bite your tongue, Purl--or would some consider that too provocative?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They have 'voluntarily' changed their procedures and will offer a pregnant employee another position. Peggy Young is still pursuing her case in the courts, if I understand correctly.



peacegoddess said:


> Anyone paying attention to the Peggy Young case that is at the Supreme Court? A young pregnant woman who worked for UPS was advised by her I obgyn to not lift over 20 lbs during the pregnancy. She requested lighter duty work, but UPS fired her.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

No curiosity here either.



Designer1234 said:


> I don't want to!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO if female employment is beneficial to companies, the workplace should be made to accomodate them. If they don't care about anything except the bottom dollar.......



susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, I'm amazed the anti-abortion crowd isn't throwing their efforts into cases like this one. Financial stress is, I believe, the most commonly cited reason for choosing to end a pregnancy. Businesses may not be legally compelled to accommodate pregnant women, but there certainly would be fewer abortions if they were.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, I'm amazed the anti-abortion crowd isn't throwing their efforts into cases like this one. Financial stress is, I believe, the most commonly cited reason for choosing to end a pregnancy. Businesses may not be legally compelled to accommodate pregnant women, but there certainly would be fewer abortions if they were.


They only want her to CARRY THE BABY and not abort. They don't care if she can provide for it, if she has a job or future and have no interest in her plight or troubles. She's on her own and if she needs public assistance will be vilified as a "taker." Her problem for getting pregnant in the first place.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> They only want her to CARRY THE BABY and not abort. They don't care if she can provide for it, if she has a job or future and have no interest in her plight or troubles. She's on her own and if she needs public assistance will be vilified as a "taker." Her problem for getting pregnant in the first place.


I'm afraid you're right, Green. This cartoon sums up the anti-abortion attitude pretty well


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not very Christian IMHO



DGreen said:


> They only want her to CARRY THE BABY and not abort. They don't care if she can provide for it, if she has a job or future and have no interest in her plight or troubles. She's on her own and if she needs public assistance will be vilified as a "taker." Her problem for getting pregnant in the first place.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> Good morning. I haven't been around much, but I'm glad to see some of you are still here making a ton of sense and touting my "boyfriend," Robert Reich. I have to admit that I still have the last half of "Inequality" to watch, but Robert says EVERYTHING very well in plain, concrete English. It's too bad the people who need to read and watch him the most have probably never heard of him.
> Carry on!
> P.S. my avatar is Lucy's selfie.


I Love Lucy!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Anyone paying attention to the Peggy Young case that is at the Supreme Court? A young pregnant woman who worked for UPS was advised by her I obgyn to not lift over 20 lbs during the pregnancy. She requested lighter duty work, but UPS fired her.


peacegoddess
she should win her case. This could not happen in most countries and that is the reason we are falling behind in our standing round the globe. Time to step into this Century but with the GOP taking charge, good luck.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Frankly, I'm amazed the anti-abortion crowd isn't throwing their efforts into cases like this one. Financial stress is, I believe, the most commonly cited reason for choosing to end a pregnancy. Businesses may not be legally compelled to accommodate pregnant women, but there certainly would be fewer abortions if they were.


susanmos2000
don't we know so well that they really care not about anyone living and breathing? They are all "pretend".


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I wonder why she asked that? Does she, or does she think Justice is happening with Police departments, now? Not sure what she was saying.


I think it's simply that justice is a good thing, so we must not believe in it. After all, some of us (and I mean some, not all) don't even believe in God.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> IMHO if female employment is beneficial to companies, the workplace should be made to accomodate them. If they don't care about anything except the bottom dollar.......


Apparently their policy is to give easier work to alcoholics who can't drive and to others with disabilities. Pregnancy was not written into their policy, so they can ignore it.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cheryl Holland - I am beginning to enjoy seeing her on this thread.
> 
> Is she in prison?
> 
> ...


I know you all think its funny but I find it mean spirited. Why would you even bother. She hasn't been on here for a while and may not come back at all. Plus using her name and I know you are not talking about the women in that pictures. It's not even cute.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> I know you all think its funny but I find it mean spirited. Why would you even bother. She hasn't been on here for a while and may not come back at all. Plus using her name and I know you are not talking about the women in that pictures. It's not even cute.


Yarnie- you lost me -- what are you talking about?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> I know you all think its funny but I find it mean spirited. Why would you even bother. She hasn't been on here for a while and may not come back at all. Plus using her name and I know you are not talking about the women in that pictures. It's not even cute.


I do not understand your response. Why would a killer be on KP? OOOOO! Now you must tell us everything you know.

Just visited the Denims and it seemed that Our Favorite Pin-up is connected with KPG. Now I need to know if Ms. Holland is in prison. Otherwise.....


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I do not understand your response. Why would a killer be on KP? OOOOO! Now you must tell us everything you know.
> 
> Just visited the Denims and it seemed that Our Favorite Pin-up is connected with KPG. Now I need to know if Ms. Holland is in prison. Otherwise.....


Is that what Yarnie was talking about? Where does she get that? She should go back and read for a few days. Sheesh.

She comes here and misreads all sorts of things and jumps to conclusions that are not correct.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Trying to piece together yarnie's comments. This Cheryl Holland is thought to be KPG who is gone and may not return. ( From Denim & Pearls)

I personally assumed that the 1950's avatar with the glasses was a funny stock picture from the net.

I'm not sure if any of this is true or makes sense. This is just what I've tried to put together.



theyarnlady said:


> I know you all think its funny but I find it mean spirited. Why would you even bother. She hasn't been on here for a while and may not come back at all. Plus using her name and I know you are not talking about the women in that pictures. It's not even cute.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Trying to piece together yarnie's comments. This Cheryl Holland is thought to be KPG who is gone and may not return. ( From Denim & Pearls)
> 
> I personally assumed that the 1950's avatar with the glasses was a funny stock picture from the net.
> 
> I'm not sure if any of this is true or makes sense. This is just what I've tried to put together.


The Cheryl Holland pic is an actual pic of a woman who killed her relatives. (PP would know more about the crime.) The face is so outrageous that I joke about it. Yarnie made a connection between Cheryl Holland and KPG.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Trying to piece together yarnie's comments. This Cheryl Holland is thought to be KPG who is gone and may not return. ( From Denim & Pearls)
> 
> I personally assumed that the 1950's avatar with the glasses was a funny stock picture from the net.
> 
> I'm not sure if any of this is true or makes sense. This is just what I've tried to put together.


If that is the case I wasn't aware of it. Wasn't that the name of the murderer that Poor P. used as a joke for her avatar about a week ago? I sure thought it was. I have no recollection of anyone even implying it was KPG. Weird indeed.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Trying to piece together yarnie's comments. This Cheryl Holland is thought to be KPG who is gone and may not return. ( From Denim & Pearls)
> 
> I personally assumed that the 1950's avatar with the glasses was a funny stock picture from the net.
> 
> I'm not sure if any of this is true or makes sense. This is just what I've tried to put together.


 I think you are correct. Cheryl Holland was the person in the picture that PP posted awhile ago. isn't there a copyposted at the bottom of a post just recently (yesterday or today). I have been on here steadily and never heard anythng about the person Yarnie says we are ridiculing. I don't quote her name if I can help it and there has been no discussion here about her.

Yarnie -read back-- you have it wrong.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

SQM said:


> The Cheryl Holland pic is an actual pic of a woman who killed her relatives. (PP would know more about the crime.) The face is so outrageous that I joke about it. Yarnie made a connection between Cheryl Holland and KPG.


Seems there is some collective amnesia taking place here. For months, some of you have been claiming that KPG's name is Cheryl Holland and posting info about Cheryl Holland, claiming it applies to KPG. It was several of your group that connected KPG with that photo when Denim was invaded last month. It wasn't nice then and it's not nice now.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Seems there is some collective amnesia taking place here. For months, some of you have been claiming that KPG's name is Cheryl Holland and posting info about Cheryl Holland, claiming it applies to KPG. It was several of your group that connected KPG with that photo when Denim was invaded last month. It wasn't nice then and it's not nice now.


What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

damemary said:


> They have 'voluntarily' changed their procedures and will offer a pregnant employee another position. Peggy Young is still pursuing her case in the courts, if I understand correctly.


She took it to the Supreme Court this week, after losing in two other courts. The problem is that she is trying to win her case on a law that was passed two years after her pregnancy, there was no law that was broken at that time. Do I think UPS handled the situation correctly? No. But we also do not know what other jobs were available for her to do or what other jobs she was certified to do. I know you have to have certification to use certain equipment in a warehouse..... But laws are now in place to protect women. So, in all honesty, she does not have a case because the law was not broken at the time of her pregnancy.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Another unarmed black male shot by a white police officer in Arizona:

http://www.9news.com.au/World/2014/12/05/14/20/Another-white-police-officer-kills-black-man-in-United-States


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

It puzzles me that you can write the trash below...



lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


...and then post a thoughtful and polite response to a poster of a group of people you've just demeaned and derided...



lovethelake said:


> She took it to the Supreme Court this week, after losing in two other courts. The problem is that she is trying to win her case on a law that was passed two years after her pregnancy, there was no law that was broken at that time. Do I think UPS handled the situation correctly? No. But we also do not know what other jobs were available for her to do or what other jobs she was certified to do. I know you have to have certification to use certain equipment in a warehouse..... But laws are now in place to protect women. So, in all honesty, she does not have a case because the law was not broken at the time of her pregnancy.


...where do you get off? Seriously?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't you ever get tired of blaming everything on President Obama? Of course not. Gets tiresome.



lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So tough noughies? Do you think her child deserves welfare now that he's born and his mother has no job? I doubt they'll have a place for her now.



lovethelake said:


> She took it to the Supreme Court this week, after losing in two other courts. The problem is that she is trying to win her case on a law that was passed two years after her pregnancy, there was no law that was broken at that time. Do I think UPS handled the situation correctly? No. But we also do not know what other jobs were available for her to do or what other jobs she was certified to do. I know you have to have certification to use certain equipment in a warehouse..... But laws are now in place to protect women. So, in all honesty, she does not have a case because the law was not broken at the time of her pregnancy.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Seems there is some collective amnesia taking place here. For months, some of you have been claiming that KPG's name is Cheryl Holland and posting info about Cheryl Holland, claiming it applies to KPG. It was several of your group that connected KPG with that photo when Denim was invaded last month. It wasn't nice then and it's not nice now.


Wait...are you claiming that the Cheryl Holland in the photo is the KP KPG? That's ridiculous. Yes, "our" KPG is a thoroughly unlikable character, but obviously there's a difference between being a smary-mouthed little witch and a serial murderer. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

And down we go!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Maybe they know her better than we do.



susanmos2000 said:


> Wait...are you claiming that the Cheryl Holland in the photo is the KP KPG? That's ridiculous. Yes, "our" KPG is a thoroughly unlikable character, but obviously there's a difference between being a smary-mouthed little witch and a serial murderer. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe they know her better than we do.


Perhaps...but it appears that the D & P crowd needs its collective head examined. They must be out of their minds.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> It puzzles me that you can write the trash below...
> 
> ...where do you get off? Seriously?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> Seems there is some collective amnesia taking place here. For months, some of you have been claiming that KPG's name is Cheryl Holland and posting info about Cheryl Holland, claiming it applies to KPG. It was several of your group that connected KPG with that photo when Denim was invaded last month. It wasn't nice then and it's not nice now.


Chastise your own once in awhile, why don't you?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Maybe they know her better than we do.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


Oh, go look in the mirror.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

west coast kitty said:


> Seems there is some collective amnesia taking place here. For months, some of you have been claiming that KPG's name is Cheryl Holland and posting info about Cheryl Holland, claiming it applies to KPG. It was several of your group that connected KPG with that photo when Denim was invaded last month. It wasn't nice then and it's not nice now.


Oh. Thanks for the clarification and memory boost. What I don't recall is invading Denim. I rarely post there and when I do it is always pleasant.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Chastise your own once in awhile, why don't you?


For what? They're always "right".....


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


Oh, go jump in the lake, COW.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wait...are you claiming that the Cheryl Holland in the photo is the KP KPG? That's ridiculous. Yes, "our" KPG is a thoroughly unlikable character, but obviously there's a difference between being a smarmy-mouthed little witch and a serial murderer. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing.


My point exactly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And down we go!


Come on, there's a weekend coming up!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> lovethelake wrote:
> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments.
> 
> Oh, go look in the mirror.


Hers must have broken long ago. Talk about nasty comments - rare is the comment that does not include slamming Obama, and in outrageous ways, as if Obama or any other president can, should, or has been the supreme authority or leader of the ENTIRE world. According to her, Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING bad in the world.

WE have ISIS (scary threat, but mostly in the ME)
WE have Putin remaking the Soviet Union (last time I checked, the Soviet Union was a sovereign nation) 
WE have beheadings (one madman, not sanctioned by any group)
WE have WMD's used in Syria (on Obama's orders?)
WE have Benghazi (after 7 investigations no wrongdoing found)

And WE make nonsensical comments? I know there will be an outraged response to this. Heard it all before, ladies.

Over and over and over and over and over......never anything to say that doesn't blame Obama and call us ignorant, uninformed and stupid.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Oh, go look in the mirror.


You may be my kid sister, but that was more adult than what I told her to do.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Hers must have broken long ago. Talk about nasty comments - rare is the comment that does not include slamming Obama, and in outrageous ways, as if Obama or any other president can, should, or has been the supreme authority or leader of the ENTIRE world. According to her, Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING bad in the world.
> 
> WE have ISIS (scary threat, but mostly in the ME)
> WE have Putin remaking the Soviet Union (last time I checked, the Soviet Union was a sovereign nation)
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Is that what Yarnie was talking about? Where does she get that? She should go back and read for a few days. Sheesh.
> 
> She comes here and misreads all sorts of things and jumps to conclusions that are not correct.


Designer1234
let's face it Yarnie read as well as she writes. Enough said.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> For what? They're always "right".....


Yes, far right. (For those of us who remember the campaign of Barry Goldwater.)


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Inequality is the root of social evil. That's his one-sentence tweet. Time for you to stop criticizing Obama and everyone else for their beliefs and policies as morally wrong. Did you ever stop to think that your right-wing agenda is more than a little out of whack with the Pope's? You continue to rationalize your own beliefs to make them coincide with the Pope's and the teachings of Jesus. It's too bad. I don't think you'll ever "get it." Just go about your misguided way of life and keep spouting the junk you have twisted up in your brain. Just don't call the junk the teachings of Jesus or the Church.
> 
> P.S. The last time I checked the US was part of the world.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


lovethelake
your record about President Obama is broken and squealing. You know what effect that has on listeners, they tune out. You I think are old enough to know about such things. As to your remarks of angry, juvenile, plain nasty? Got a Mirror?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My point exactly.


agreed.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wait...are you claiming that the Cheryl Holland in the photo is the KP KPG? That's ridiculous. Yes, "our" KPG is a thoroughly unlikable character, but obviously there's a difference between being a smary-mouthed little witch and a serial murderer. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing.


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Chastise your own once in awhile, why don't you?


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> let's face it Yarnie read as well as she writes. Enough said.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You may be my kid sister, but that was more adult than what I told her to do.


But I liked your answer better anyway.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Wait...are you claiming that the Cheryl Holland in the photo is the KP KPG? That's ridiculous. Yes, "our" KPG is a thoroughly unlikable character, but obviously there's a difference between being a smary-mouthed little witch and a serial murderer. I can't believe you would even suggest such a thing.


Then why would PP put up a murderer? What is her point in that? There is nothing all of you libs wouldn't do. You are so full of hate that you would do anything to hurt someone. Except for SQM and Andrea. I hope PP is banned. If anyone needs to she does. She is second in line to VL on being hateful. It is a shame that old woman act like they do. :thumbdown:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lots of lies and whining elsewhere. Where's the Raid?



cookiequeen said:


> Chastise your own once in awhile, why don't you?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Then why would PP put up a murderer? What is her point in that? There is nothing all of you libs wouldn't do. You are so full of hate that you would do anything to hurt someone. Except for SQM and Andrea. I hope PP is banned. If anyone needs to she does. She is second in line to VL on being hateful. It is a shame that old woman act like they do. :thumbdown:


Thanks Bumps but if PP goes, so do I. Actually she is hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty. She never bothers you on Denim. And old women have every right to remove the shackles of propriety and act as we will. We deserve to in light of the fact that our eyebrows are on our chins and our knees look like corrugated cardboard.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Oh. Thanks for the clarification and memory boost. What I don't recall is invading Denim. I rarely post there and when I do it is always pleasant.


D&P makes me puke just lurking. Do you see palm trees in Chicago?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I believe I was the only person in the group that had anything to do with that picture, and it was deleted soon after being posted. And I was accused of posting personal information in public.
> 
> KPG has denied that her name is Cheryl Holland, so whose personal information was posted? And even if that turns out to be her name, I doubt that anyone believes she's _that_ Cheryl Holland. Even _I_ don't think she's a murderer, and I have reason to believe unpleasant things about her.
> 
> Tell you what: if KPG apologizes publicly for saying that all Jews are white supremacists and for posting my name in a totally false public message concerning me and my husband, I'll stop posting the name of PKC=Psycho Killer Cheryl. But not the picture, which is too good to throw away. You have to admit that's one weird-looking murderer.


I understand your position completely and support you 100%.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :twisted:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> D&P makes me puke just lurking. Do you see palm trees in Chicago?


yeah we see tons of palm trees in Chicago, when we are watching shows of the tropics on TV.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Hers must have broken long ago. Talk about nasty comments - rare is the comment that does not include slamming Obama, and in outrageous ways, as if Obama or any other president can, should, or has been the supreme authority or leader of the ENTIRE world. According to her, Obama is responsible for EVERYTHING bad in the world.
> 
> WE have ISIS (scary threat, but mostly in the ME)
> WE have Putin remaking the Soviet Union (last time I checked, the Soviet Union was a sovereign nation)
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Barry Goldwater would be damned as a liberal these days, and I'd love to hear what Barry would say about the Tea Party hijacking the Republican party. Wouldn't that be fun?



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, far right. (For those of us who remember the campaign of Barry Goldwater.)


 :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Then why would PP put up a murderer? What is her point in that? There is nothing all of you libs wouldn't do. You are so full of hate that you would do anything to hurt someone. Except for SQM and Andrea. I hope PP is banned. If anyone needs to she does. She is second in line to VL on being hateful. It is a shame that old woman act like they do. :thumbdown:


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks Bumps but if PP goes, so do I. Actually she is hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty. She never bothers you on Denim. And old women have every right to remove the shackles of propriety and act as we will. We deserve to in light of the fact that our eyebrows are on our chins and our knees look like corrugated cardboard.


Maybe she is that way to you but not to anyone on the right. She is the professor on the movie"God's Not Dead". I am not going to sit her all day to be abused. I know after I go the hyenas will tear me to shreds. 
No one has the right to tear people apart. Even if they are hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty. 
I am glad you take up for your friend but she is nasty to us. Don't you wonder what why she put up a serial killer implying it was one of Denim? Only a sick person does stuff like that. Maybe you can talk to her about getting herself some help.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe she is that way to you but not to anyone on the right. She is the professor on the movie"God's Not Dead". I am not going to sit her all day to be abused. I know after I go the hyenas will tear me to shreds.
> No one has the right to tear people apart. Even if they are hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty.
> I am glad you take up for your friend but she is nasty to us. Don't you wonder what why she put up a serial killer implying it was one of Denim? Only a sick person does stuff like that. Maybe you can talk to her about getting herself some help.


Is KPG's real name Cheryl Holland? Is that the point of all of this? If so, then be mad at Yarnie for bringing all of this to our attention, last night.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see. You see things that aren't there physically, as in pleasant discourse in D&P and palm trees on TV. I prefer the real world.



SQM said:


> yeah we see tons of palm trees in Chicago, when we are watching shows of the tropics on TV.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I see. You see things that aren't there physically, as in pleasant discourse in D&P and palm trees on TV. I prefer the real world.


No comprendo your pointo.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is KPG's real name Cheryl Holland? Is that the point of all of this? If so, then be mad at Yarnie for bringing all of this to our attention, last night.


Ask you friend. She thinks she knows everything. That is what she is implying but does she know who any of us are? She just goes by what Lisa says. Talk to Lisa or maybe she can read our pm's and find things out. Why did she put a serial killer up as her avatar?Seems like Damemary and her like woman murders. Sick, sick ,sick. Ask her what she things she knows. PP has evaded Denim. She is not as innocent as you think she is.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You may be my kid sister, but that was more adult than what I told her to do.


Well, that (jumping) was my first thought. Does that bring me up to "twin?"


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ask you friend. She thinks she knows everything. That is what she is implying but does she know who any of us are? She just goes by what Lisa says. Talk to Lisa or maybe she can read our pm's and find things out. Why did she put a serial killer up as her avatar?Seems like Damemary and her like woman murders. Sick, sick ,sick. Ask her what she things she knows. PP has evaded Denim. She is not as innocent as you think she is.


Again I am confused. If PP has evaded Denim, that means she does not go there, which is my impression. So what is she guilty of?

methinks that KPG is indeed named Cheryl Holland which is a very pretty name - almost marque quality.

I am fascinated by women killers 'cause they are rare - especially ones with vintage cat's eye glasses which is very current in the East Village.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We see D&P very differently. I think they'll turn on you or something like that.



SQM said:


> No comprendo your pointo.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We don't miss KPG like the D&P gang does, but we are a bit curious. No post since 11/28/14 and no word of leaving. Care to enlighten us?



Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe she is that way to you but not to anyone on the right. She is the professor on the movie"God's Not Dead". I am not going to sit her all day to be abused. I know after I go the hyenas will tear me to shreds.
> No one has the right to tear people apart. Even if they are hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty.
> I am glad you take up for your friend but she is nasty to us. Don't you wonder what why she put up a serial killer implying it was one of Denim? Only a sick person does stuff like that. Maybe you can talk to her about getting herself some help.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

SQM said:


> Again I am confused. If PP has evaded Denim, that means she does not go there, which is my impression. So what is she guilty of?
> 
> methinks that KPG is indeed named Cheryl Holland which is a very pretty name - almost marque quality.
> 
> I am fascinated by women killers 'cause they are rare - especially ones with vintage cat's eye glasses which is very current in the East Village.


I never said that was her name. PP and Lisa are the ones. I am out of the stupidity. I have a family to tend to. More important than stupid fighting over fake names and woman murderers.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Come on, there's a weekend coming up!


Oh! Well, OK then! :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Then why would PP put up a murderer? What is her point in that? There is nothing all of you libs wouldn't do. You are so full of hate that you would do anything to hurt someone. Except for SQM and Andrea. I hope PP is banned. If anyone needs to she does. She is second in line to VL on being hateful. It is a shame that old woman act like they do. :thumbdown:


1) How do you know how old I am? What is your idea of being old? If you don't want to be old like me, I'm on your side, hoping it doesn't happen.

2)Why not ask PP why she put up a murderer? Wouldn't she know better than anyone else?

3)What you think is hate is just a sense of humor, which you seem to lack (and I wouldn't make jokes either if I had Jesus looking over my shoulder in my avatar). I feel more hate coming from you Christians than I've ever encountered in my very very very looooooong life.

4)Why do you *never* answer a question?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks Bumps but if PP goes, so do I. Actually she is hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty. She never bothers you on Denim. And old women have every right to remove the shackles of propriety and act as we will. We deserve to in light of the fact that our eyebrows are on our chins and our knees look like corrugated cardboard.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you for the compliments. However, I happen to have perfect eyebrows. Seriously. But my chin is heading to my waist, so that makes up for them.

Correction: Apparently I do bother them on FF. That's where I first posted PKC, and they said I revealed personal information (that she's in prison?) and it was removed.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is KPG's real name Cheryl Holland? Is that the point of all of this? If so, then be mad at Yarnie for bringing all of this to our attention, last night.


I think the point is that I corrected CB's atrocious English in response to a message she wrote saying that DGreen put words in her mouth and something about what D does or doesn't want. I correct English only when the person writing seems to think she's smarter than everyone else.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Ask you friend. She thinks she knows everything. That is what she is implying but does she know who any of us are? She just goes by what Lisa says. Talk to Lisa or maybe she can read our pm's and find things out. Why did she put a serial killer up as her avatar?Seems like Damemary and her like woman murders. Sick, sick ,sick. Ask her what she things she knows. PP has evaded Denim. She is not as innocent as you think she is.


Wow. I am implying I know everything? You're right (and also far right) that I don't know who any of you are, at least not by name. But I, and anyone who reads, can easily see the paranoia in what you write. I can see what kinds of people you are.

You still haven't asked _me_ about the murderer, so you'll never know why I did it.

Um, where you say I've evaded Denim, that may be true, but I suspect you meant _invaded_ Denim. Am I wrong?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Well, that (jumping) was my first thought. Does that bring me up to "twin?"


Since I'm in an English-correcting mode, don't you mean _down_ to "twin"?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They don't answer questions because they just realized several of them confirmed KPG as Cheryl Holland/ Cherf.



Poor Purl said:


> 1) How do you know how old I am? What is your idea of being old? If you don't want to be old like me, I'm on your side, hoping it doesn't happen.
> 
> 2)Why not ask PP why she put up a murderer? Wouldn't she know better than anyone else?
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wow. I am implying I know everything? You're right (and also far right) that I don't know who any of you are, at least not by name. But I, and anyone who reads, can easily see the paranoia in what you write. I can see what kinds of people you are.
> 
> You still haven't asked _me_ about the murderer, so you'll never know why I did it.
> 
> Um, where you say I've evaded Denim, that may be true, but I suspect you meant _invaded_ Denim. Am I wrong?


How will she determine if she means evaded or invaded? This should be fun.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Since I'm in an English-correcting mode, don't you mean _down_ to "twin"?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Maybe she is that way to you but not to anyone on the right. She is the professor on the movie"God's Not Dead". I am not going to sit her all day to be abused. I know after I go the hyenas will tear me to shreds.
> No one has the right to tear people apart. Even if they are hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty.
> I am glad you take up for your friend but she is nasty to us. Don't you wonder what why she put up a serial killer implying it was one of Denim? Only a sick person does stuff like that. Maybe you can talk to her about getting herself some help.


changed my mind. It is hopeless.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

. double post


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Since I'm in an English-correcting mode, don't you mean _down_ to "twin"?


Non, non. I was just a kid sister and raised myself UP to twin. I guess it's how one looks at it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> What do you expect from a bunch of AOLW? The country is in shambles under Obama, who is the most divisive president our country has ever seen. We now have ISIS, Putin trying to remake the Soviet Union, we have beheadings, we have W.M.D's used in Syria, we have assassinations of ambassadors and heroes trying to save him.............and all the care about is trying to bait someone with nonsensical comments. They look like fools again, in my opinion. They moan and groan about how some of us do not carry on discussions about topics because those people do not listen (aka agree with them), but how does anyone carry on an intelligent conversations with people that are so angry, juvenile, snarky, and just plain nasty? You can't, and they prove it over and over again.


Moo on COW!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> How will she determine if she means evaded or invaded? This should be fun.


Maybe one of her kids can look up both words. I do think that's why she's gone off her rocker about me: I pointed out her mistake. The unthinkable.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is KPG's real name Cheryl Holland? Is that the point of all of this? If so, then be mad at Yarnie for bringing all of this to our attention, last night.


Right. 
I don't even know
KPG's name -- I never have known she was anyone but Cherf and that was enough for me -I don't even want to mention her name and none of us do or have since she stopped coming. So get off your high horse and quit crying about how badly we treat you. Hyena's that is over the top and certainly sounds nice from someone who is supposed to love their neighbor.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Non, non. I was just a kid sister and raised myself UP to twin. I guess it's how one looks at it.


I understand, but you made an adult remark where I made a kiddy one. Oh, okay. (I'll do it for Lucy. She is so cute.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Moo on COW!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks Bumps but if PP goes, so do I. Actually she is hilarious, super smart and outrageously witty. She never bothers you on Denim. And old women have every right to remove the shackles of propriety and act as we will. We deserve to in light of the fact that our eyebrows are on our chins and our knees look like corrugated cardboard.


Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


Why don't you just shut your trap?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't agree.



lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Why don't you just shut your trap?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Barry Goldwater would be damned as a liberal these days, and I'd love to hear what Barry would say about the Tea Party hijacking the Republican party. Wouldn't that be fun?
> 
> :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


damemary
that would be wow, wow, wows.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If we could only channel his spirit in a seance! Sure would make the interviews more interesting.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> that would be wow, wow, wows.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


lovethelake
....why teenagers......." they spend too much time with the likes of you. Repuglicans sure have a fine way to destroy lives, they are even trying to do away with minimum wage and deny folks Welfare, et. etc. etc. Now I call that major misbehavior.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> ....why teenagers......." they spend too much time with the likes of you. Repuglicans sure have a fine way to destroy lives, they are even trying to do away with minimum wage and deny folks Welfare, et. etc. etc. Now I call that major misbehavior.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


And I hope you're not the role model for your sisters' kids and your grandkids. Once again, it's time to look in the mirror AND jump in the lake. Honestly, I don't know how you can say what you say with a straight face.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


Oh, please. This is without a doubt the dumbest tiff that's ever erupted on the political threads, and IMHO opinion it's a desperate attempt on the COWs' parts to salve some very uneasy consciences. All this talk about cruelty and role models and destroying lives is better suited to what's happened in NYC and Arizona--of which you ultra ultras steadfastly refuse to discuss. In those shabby, petty little minds of yours it's far better to blaze self-righteously about the liberals' words and actions than consider whether your political and social agenda has brought about the current crisis--the police out of control, and people dying in agony on our public streets for "crimes" like selling untaxed cigarettes and reaching for pill bottles.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh, please. This is without a doubt the dumbest tiff that's ever erupted on the political threads, and IMHO opinion it's a desperate attempt on the COWs' parts to salve some very uneasy consciences. All this talk about cruelty and role models and destroying lives is better suited to what's happened in NYC and Arizona--of which you ultra ultras steadfastly refuse to discuss. In those shabby, petty little minds of yours its far better to blaze self-righteously about the liberals' words and actions than consider whether your political and social agenda has brought about the current crisis--the police out of control, and people dying in agony on our public streets for "crimes" like selling untaxed cigarettes and reaching for pill bottles.


 :thumbup: : :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


If teenagers EVER respected their elders there would be no need for the Commandment.

What went over the line was Yarnie spilling the beans. Plus you can deliver it pretty well yourself, which I find okay since it livens things up. I never see anyone from this side of the fence bothering y'all in Denim.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> :thumbup: : :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thanks for your support, Cookie. I saw the brouhaha about Cheryl Holland and KPG unfolding yesterday and didn't weigh in because I simply couldn't figure it out--why all the self-righteousness, why all the carefully chosen adjectives (cruel, remorseless, vindictive) on the part of the KP conservatives? When I read LTL's final post, though, it suddenly became clear--these are the words and attitudes of a group whose underdeveloped consciences are beginning to prick as American bodies--all victims of police brutality--pile up. It's no wonder they won't talk about it beyond assuring each other that the protests in NYC accomplish nothing and will soon die down. They want desperately to forget, to move on, to avoid the reality that mainstream America now recognizes that great injustices are being committed at the hands of our "peace officers"--and that many among their dwindling group of supporters are out-and-out racists who freely use the "N" word, congratulate Pantaleo, and urge him to "get another".


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> ....why teenagers......." they spend too much time with the likes of you. Repuglicans sure have a fine way to destroy lives, they are even trying to do away with minimum wage and deny folks Welfare, et. etc. etc. Now I call that major misbehavior.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> And I hope you're not the role model for your sisters' kids and your grandkids. Once again, it's time to look in the mirror AND jump in the lake. Honestly, I don't know how you can say what you say with a straight face.


The best I can think is maybe she's kidding? OK. She has no sense of humor. I vote for the long walk off a short dock at that lake.

:twisted:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh, please. This is without a doubt the dumbest tiff that's ever erupted on the political threads, and IMHO opinion it's a desperate attempt on the COWs' parts to salve some very uneasy consciences. All this talk about cruelty and role models and destroying lives is better suited to what's happened in NYC and Arizona--of which you ultra ultras steadfastly refuse to discuss. In those shabby, petty little minds of yours it's far better to blaze self-righteously about the liberals' words and actions than consider whether your political and social agenda has brought about the current crisis--the police out of control, and people dying in agony on our public streets for "crimes" like selling untaxed cigarettes and reaching for pill bottles.


    So true and so sad. It's like a nightmare that never ends.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Why don't you just shut your trap?


Or better still she could run over to Ravelry and complain over there about how nasty and mean and evil we are. Yes, she has done that in the past. Perhaps she thinks she is safe over there because she is a moderator of her site and can have people banned. Yes, she has done that in the past also. Maybe that is her ambition here. She may like to have everyone who thinks differently from the way she thinks, or follows a different political party to her chosen party banned from KP. Who knows? But boy oh boy she can certainly throw the dirt at others and run them down.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I see no reason for any COWS to ever leave D&P. They never have anything interesting to add to realistic discussions. They have their kissy-face buddies, recipes. They only leave t hijack reasonable threads. And they wonder why we eventually get snarky! Why wouldn't we when we've tried everything else? I guess D&P gets boring for them too.



SQM said:


> If teenagers EVER respected their elders there would be no need for the Commandment.
> 
> What went over the line was Yarnie spilling the beans. Plus you can deliver it pretty well yourself, which I find okay since it livens things up. I never see anyone from this side of the fence bothering y'all in Denim.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't agree.


I think she is speaking from personal experience and that is the way her children and grandchildren treat her. They are rebelling against her nasty and vicious comments about people she does not agree with. I do not think she has heard the saying "Attack message not the messenger". Her comments in other places leave much to be desired. She has an evil mind and tongue, she does not have a kind word to say about anyone who follows a different religion or political party to her. But watch out, she will complain to Admin and try to have us banned. She is a moderator in another place and has anyone who disagrees with her banned from that place.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Excellent reasoning. Thanks.



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for your support, Cookie. I saw the brouhaha about Cheryl Holland and KPG unfolding yesterday and didn't weigh in because I simply couldn't figure it out--why all the self-righteousness, why all the carefully chosen adjectives (cruel, remorseless, vindictive) on the part of the KP conservatives? When I read LTL's final post, though, it suddenly became clear--these are the words and attitudes of a group whose underdeveloped consciences are beginning to prick as American bodies--all victims of police brutality--pile up. It's no wonder they won't talk about it beyond assuring each other that the protests in NYC accomplish nothing and will soon die down. They want desperately to forget, to move on, to avoid the reality that mainstream America now recognizes that great injustices are being committed at the hands of our "peace officers"--and that many among their dwindling group of supporters are out-and-out racists who freely use the "N" word, congratulate Pantaleo, and urge him to "get another".


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> Or better still she could run over to Ravelry and complain over there about how nasty and mean and evil we are. Yes, she has done that in the past. Perhaps she thinks she is safe over there because she is a moderator of her site and can have people banned. Yes, she has done that in the past also. Maybe that is her ambition here. She may like to have everyone who thinks differently from the way she thinks, or follows a different political party to her chosen party banned from KP. Who knows? But boy oh boy she can certainly throw the dirt at others and run them down.


Evem - how would I find Lakes on Ravelry. Did not know they had a chat room. What is the tone?


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Evem - how would I find Lakes on Ravelry. Did not know they had a chat room. What is the tone?


I will send you a PM.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm just so thankful that we have gathered an idealistic group full of energy to answer her attacks.

Good thinking. She just forgets who's boss.



EveMCooke said:


> Or better still she could run over to Ravelry and complain over there about how nasty and mean and evil we are. Yes, she has done that in the past. Perhaps she thinks she is safe over there because she is a moderator of her site and can have people banned. Yes, she has done that in the past also. Maybe that is her ambition here. She may like to have everyone who thinks differently from the way she thinks, or follows a different political party to her chosen party banned from KP. Who knows? But boy oh boy she can certainly throw the dirt at others and run them down.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I stand by what I say. I don't see Admin complaining. As a matter of fact, I think Admin tires of the complaining. We're adults. We should be able to handle our discussions.



EveMCooke said:


> I think she is speaking from personal experience and that is the way her children and grandchildren treat her. They are rebelling against her nasty and vicious comments about people she does not agree with. I do not think she has heard the saying "Attack message not the messenger". Her comments in other places leave much to be desired. She has an evil mind and tongue, she does not have a kind word to say about anyone who follows a different religion or political party to her. But watch out, she will complain to Admin and try to have us banned. She is a moderator in another place and has anyone who disagrees with her banned from that place.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd love to know that too.



SQM said:


> Evem - how would I find Lakes on Ravelry. Did not know they had a chat room. What is the tone?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Or better still she could run over to Ravelry and complain over there about how nasty and mean and evil we are.


She can run, but she can't hide, Evie. Life must be pretty darned uncomfortable for the members of the D & P crowd these days--I suspect their underdeveloped consciences are giving them little peace. They flip on the TV and get to see the protesters--black, white, young, and old--milling in the streets in the fight for justice. Yahoo News? Log in and read all about the latest atrocities committed by the police in NYC/Cleveland/Atlanta. Fox News? Nope--even some of their commentators have said that what happened to Garner was wrong. The dingdong ultra right websites? Sure, lots of folks there to support their position--human sacks of garbage who whoop and cheer each time a person of color is gunned down, and say that blacks should return to Africa if they know what's good for them.

About the only activity the KP conservatives can find to soothe themselves is to gather on D & P, spread the goo, and reassure each other that they're all fine Christian ladies--that, they do to perfection. When are they going to wake up and realize that their thoughts, their motivations, and they themselves are as transparent as glass?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I was going to say they may examine their positions when they go to church and they urge peaceful protest. Then I came to my senses. They probably only gather on D&P.



susanmos2000 said:


> She can run, but she can't hide, Evie. Life must be pretty darned uncomfortable for the members of the D & P crowd these days--I suspect their underdeveloped consciences are giving them little peace. They flip on the TV and get to see the protesters--black, white, young, and old--milling in the streets in the fight for justice. Yahoo News? Log in and read all about the latest atrocities committed by the police in NYC/Cleveland/Atlanta. Fox News? Nope--even some of their commentators have said that what happened to Garner was wrong. The dingdong ultra right websites? Sure, lots of folks there to support their position--human sacks of garbage who whoop and cheer each time a person of color is gunned down, and say that blacks should return to Africa if they know what's good for them.
> 
> About the only activity the KP conservatives can find to soothe themselves is to gather on D & P, spread the goo, and reassure each other that they're all fine Christian ladies--that, they do to perfection. When are they going to wake up and realize that their thoughts, their motivations, and they themselves are as transparent as glass?


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Barry Goldwater would be damned as a liberal these days, and I'd love to hear what Barry would say about the Tea Party hijacking the Republican party. Wouldn't that be fun?:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Here's a tidbit about Barry Goldwater from Wikipedia:
"By the 1980s, the increasing influence of the Christian right on the Republican Party so conflicted with Goldwater's views that he became a vocal opponent of the religious right on issues such as abortion, gay rights, and the role of religion in public life."


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Barry Goldwater would be damned as a liberal these days, and I'd love to hear what Barry would say about the Tea Party hijacking the Republican party. Wouldn't that be fun?:twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Here's a tidbit about Barry Goldwater from Wikipedia:
"By the 1980s, the increasing influence of the Christian right on the Republican Party so conflicted with Goldwater's views that he became a vocal opponent of the religious right on issues such as abortion, gay rights, and the role of religion in public life."


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh Barry! Ye died too soon.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Here's a tidbit about Barry Goldwater from Wikipedia:
> "By the 1980s, the increasing influence of the Christian right on the Republican Party so conflicted with Goldwater's views that he became a vocal opponent of the religious right on issues such as abortion, gay rights, and the role of religion in public life."


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I was going to say they may examine their positions when they go to church and they urge peaceful protest. Then I came to my senses. They probably only gather on D&P.


You're right, Dame--it hadn't even occurred to me, but even in the church pews they can't escape the fact that a large segment of America is aghast at what the police have been doing. Yesterday Winding Roading was asking repeatedly what the demonstrations in NY would accomplish, and now the answer seems obvious--those protesters are mainstream America and the nation's conscience. Like in the days of the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War, the conservative hardhats need concrete visible proof of their fellow citizens' unhappiness with the status quo before they'll even consider re-examining their own belief system. Well, now they have it--let's hope they take the opportunity to do some serious thinking.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Moo on COW!


Don't you mean, MOOve on?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> I never said that was her name. PP and Lisa are the ones. I am out of the stupidity. I have a family to tend to. More important than stupid fighting over fake names and woman murderers.


If that is the case why did you come here and attack us? We were in the midst of discussing the Civil rights marches and how great it is that black and white young people are marching together to show that they don't agree with how Police act in the US. Then you came and had a temper tantrum. If they were 'fake names and woman murderers why did you come here and start a fight about the avatars???? Suddenly you are out of here -- you do that all the time. come and Stir and then when we answer run back and get sympathy because we are 'picking on you'. sheesh!!

I just read back to the middle of Nov.we have not discussed KPG because we are not obsessed with her. We are just thankful that for whatever reason, she is staying away. The only one who has was Yarnie until you came on here and ranted.

I know I did NOT KNOW her name until Yarnie told us. You have confirmed it. I couldn't care less about her name. I have never hidden behind mine and never will. All I know is that she is staying away, which I give thanks for - she is not the center of our universe like she seems to be there. Once she stayed away, we haven't discussed her at all. Read the threads! All the threads we post on. Maybe if you were more interested in the things that are happening in your country, and less interested in making mountains out of molehills, you might be aware of what is going on -


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Dame--it hadn't even occurred to me, but even in the church pews they can't escape the fact that a large segment of America is aghast at what the police have been doing. Yesterday Winding Roading was asking repeatedly what the demonstrations in NY would accomplish, and now the answer seems obvious--those protesters are mainstream America and the nation's conscience. Like in the days of the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War, the conservative hardhats need concrete visible proof of their fellow citizens' unhappiness with the status quo before they'll even consider re-examining their own belief system. Well, now they have it--let's hope they take the opportunity to do some serious thinking.


They will just say all the protestors are hired, bused in from "out of town" and are agitators. Nothing will shift their prejudices and determination to cling to their version of the "truth."


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Dame--it hadn't even occurred to me, but even in the church pews they can't escape the fact that a large segment of America is aghast at what the police have been doing. Yesterday Winding Roading was asking repeatedly what the demonstrations in NY would accomplish, and now the answer seems obvious--those protesters are mainstream America and the nation's conscience. Like in the days of the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War, the conservative hardhats need concrete visible proof of their fellow citizens' unhappiness with the status quo before they'll even consider re-examining their own belief system. Well, now they have it--let's hope they take the opportunity to do some serious thinking.


well said! I doubt they even want to know about it. Better to come here and pick a fight over nothing. I am thankful we care - even those of us who are not Americans.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

LTL said " If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age..." This indicates to me that she might be a youngster who hasn't matured sufficiently to understand the range ofstyles adults use in their discussions. After we reach a certain age we say our say rather baldly sometimes. I, at 65, find my time is too precious to waste.


bithersusanmos2000 said:


> Oh, please. This is without a doubt the dumbest tiff that's ever erupted on the political threads, and IMHO opinion it's a desperate attempt on the COWs' parts to salve some very uneasy consciences. All this talk about cruelty and role models and destroying lives is better suited to what's happened in NYC and Arizona--of which you ultra ultras steadfastly refuse to discuss. In those shabby, petty little minds of yours it's far better to blaze self-righteously about the liberals' words and actions than consider whether your political and social agenda has brought about the current crisis--the police out of control, and people dying in agony on our public streets for "crimes" like selling untaxed cigarettes and reaching for pill bottles.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> If that is the case why did you come here and attack us? We were in the midst of discussing the Civil rights marches and how great it is that black and white young people are marching together to show that they don't agree with how Police act in the US. Then you came and had a temper tantrum. If they were 'fake names and woman murderers why did you come here and start a fight about the avatars???? Suddenly you are out of here -- you do that all the time. come and Stir and then when we answer run back and get sympathy because we are 'picking on you'. sheesh!!
> 
> I just read back to the middle of Nov.we have not discussed KPG because we are not obsessed with her. We are just thankful that for whatever reason, she is staying away. The only one who has was Yarnie until you came on here and ranted.
> 
> I know I did NOT KNOW her name until Yarnie told us. You have confirmed it. I couldn't care less about her name. I have never hidden behind mine and never will. All I know is that she is staying away, which I give thanks for - she is not the center of our universe like she seems to be there. Once she stayed away, we haven't discussed her at all. Read the threads! All the threads we post on. Maybe if you were more interested in the things that are happening in your country, and less interested in making mountains out of molehills, you might be aware of what is going on -


It is a shame you all live in a dream world of drama. No one confirmed anything. It is just what is you minds. VL made it up and you all believed her. Get over yourself.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is a shame you all live in a dream world of drama. No one confirmed anything. It is just what is you minds. VL made it up and you all believed her. Get over yourself.












You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Did you read the posts???? NO because then you might find out the truth and you don't want to do that.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

CB: It is just what is you minds.

Huh?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is a shame you all live in a dream world of drama. No one confirmed anything. It is just what is you minds. VL made it up and you all believed her. Get over yourself.


Yes, yes--backpeddle like crazy, CB, now that you've spilled the beans. A wise move on your part else Her Majesty marches over and confiscates your tinfoil helmet.


----------



## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Merry Christmas!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Susan take you papa go back home.


 :?: :?: :?:

Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about?

Edit--and now CB's post is gone...I guess even she couldn't understand it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Shackles of propriety? Does that mean that you were a prisoner of civility? If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age acted with the viciousness and cruelty that the AOLW here act, they would be not be allowed around their grandchildren (and my sisters would also keep their kids away) because they are not the role models that children should be exposed to and admire. I find older people hilarious and enjoy spending time with them. Sure they can be a tad crotchety when their bodies hurt. But what is being done here is way over the line. It truly is a shame that some older women feel need to act this way, and then wonder why many of teenagers have no respect to authority and feel the right to defy authority and destroy other people's lives and property. They are only following their role models.


You people are full of hints and innuendo; what exactly disturbs you so much? I found out from lurking (gasp) on D&P that we've been saying terrible things about KPG. So I went back to look and found nothing.

I think you're all delusional. Go jump in the lake, COW.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And I hope you're not the role model for your sisters' kids and your grandkids. Once again, it's time to look in the mirror AND jump in the lake. Honestly, I don't know how you can say what you say with a straight face.


Or even with a round face. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks for your support, Cookie. I saw the brouhaha about Cheryl Holland and KPG unfolding yesterday and didn't weigh in because I simply couldn't figure it out--why all the self-righteousness, why all the carefully chosen adjectives (cruel, remorseless, vindictive) on the part of the KP conservatives? When I read LTL's final post, though, it suddenly became clear--these are the words and attitudes of a group whose underdeveloped consciences are beginning to prick as American bodies--all victims of police brutality--pile up. It's no wonder they won't talk about it beyond assuring each other that the protests in NYC accomplish nothing and will soon die down. They want desperately to forget, to move on, to avoid the reality that mainstream America now recognizes that great injustices are being committed at the hands of our "peace officers"--and that many among their dwindling group of supporters are out-and-out racists who freely use the "N" word, congratulate Pantaleo, and urge him to "get another".


That is really all that's important. While they sit around discussing gardening and trading cream cheese recipes and bemoaning the absence of one of their number, the country is already in crisis over its non-existent racism. So they'll blame us for talking about it and making them feel bad.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> I do not understand your response. Why would a killer be on KP? OOOOO! Now you must tell us everything you know.
> 
> Just visited the Denims and it seemed that Our Favorite Pin-up is connected with KPG. Now I need to know if Ms. Holland is in prison. Otherwise.....


Of course you understand, you're smarter than that. Others I question.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> The Cheryl Holland pic is an actual pic of a woman who killed her relatives. (PP would know more about the crime.) The face is so outrageous that I joke about it. Yarnie made a connection between Cheryl Holland and KPG.


That was the connection that was made when the picture was circulated the first time by one of your group. You guys had a big yuck fest over it at the time. Now it's being recirculated. Same people, same picture, same meaning.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Of course you understand, you're smarter than that. Others I question.


Thanks Girl but I am really not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Onward Christian (and all other groups) Soldiers. It's not dying down, and it's cold, not convenient to raise a ruckus in the streets.



susanmos2000 said:


> You're right, Dame--it hadn't even occurred to me, but even in the church pews they can't escape the fact that a large segment of America is aghast at what the police have been doing. Yesterday Winding Roading was asking repeatedly what the demonstrations in NY would accomplish, and now the answer seems obvious--those protesters are mainstream America and the nation's conscience. Like in the days of the Civil Rights movement and the Vietnam War, the conservative hardhats need concrete visible proof of their fellow citizens' unhappiness with the status quo before they'll even consider re-examining their own belief system. Well, now they have it--let's hope they take the opportunity to do some serious thinking.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Don't you mean, MOOve on?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Most excellent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go Shirley!!!



Designer1234 said:


> If that is the case why did you come here and attack us? We were in the midst of discussing the Civil rights marches and how great it is that black and white young people are marching together to show that they don't agree with how Police act in the US. Then you came and had a temper tantrum. If they were 'fake names and woman murderers why did you come here and start a fight about the avatars???? Suddenly you are out of here -- you do that all the time. come and Stir and then when we answer run back and get sympathy because we are 'picking on you'. sheesh!!
> 
> I just read back to the middle of Nov.we have not discussed KPG because we are not obsessed with her. We are just thankful that for whatever reason, she is staying away. The only one who has was Yarnie until you came on here and ranted.
> 
> I know I did NOT KNOW her name until Yarnie told us. You have confirmed it. I couldn't care less about her name. I have never hidden behind mine and never will. All I know is that she is staying away, which I give thanks for - she is not the center of our universe like she seems to be there. Once she stayed away, we haven't discussed her at all. Read the threads! All the threads we post on. Maybe if you were more interested in the things that are happening in your country, and less interested in making mountains out of molehills, you might be aware of what is going on -


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Canadians are near and dear to many of us.



Designer1234 said:


> well said! I doubt they even want to know about it. Better to come here and pick a fight over nothing. I am thankful we care - even those of us who are not Americans.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> LTL said " If my mom, aunts and other adults of her age..." This indicates to me that she might be a youngster who hasn't matured sufficiently to understand the range ofstyles adults use in their discussions. After we reach a certain age we say our say rather baldly sometimes. I, at 65, find my time is too precious to waste.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I treasure the years I've had. Most of them, at least.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gotcha.



Country Bumpkins said:


> It is a shame you all live in a dream world of drama. No one confirmed anything. It is just what is you minds. VL made it up and you all believed her. Get over yourself.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

It makes more sense than most of her pronouncements.



DGreen said:


> CB: It is just what is you minds.
> 
> Huh?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, yes--backpeddle like crazy, CB, now that you've spilled the beans. A wise move on your part else Her Majesty marches over and confiscates your tinfoil helmet.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nothing lost. Certainly nothing gained.



susanmos2000 said:


> :?: :?: :?:
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about?
> 
> Edit--and now CB's post is gone...I guess even she couldn't understand it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Could that have been a splash??? Joy unbounded. Bliss supreme.



Poor Purl said:


> You people are full of hints and innuendo; what exactly disturbs you so much? I found out from lurking (gasp) on D&P that we've been saying terrible things about KPG. So I went back to look and found nothing.
> 
> I think you're all delusional. Go jump in the lake, COW.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I treasure the years I've had. Most of them, at least.


Me, too, all the more as I don't think I'm going to 65 more of them.

I found the perfect small Christmas tree yesterday which made my mother smile. Definitely a good moment to remember. I've gotten a lot of fake foliage from Joann's. My approach to Christmas is that excess is best. I'm off to run errands, one of which is to get cinnamon scented pine cones. It is both a blessing and a curse that I live a little less than 2 blocks from a Joann's


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Take a picture. Your Christmas spirit is beautiful.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Me, too, all the more as I don't think I'm going to 65 more of them.
> 
> I found the perfect small Christmas tree yesterday which made my mother smile. Definitely a good moment to remember. I've gotten a lot of fake foliage from Joann's. My approach to Christmas is that excess is best. I'm off to run errands, one of which is to get cinnamon scented pine cones. It is both a blessing and a curse that I live a little less than 2 blocks from a Joann's


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I see no reason for any COWS to ever leave D&P. They never have anything interesting to add to realistic discussions. They have their kissy-face buddies, recipes. They only leave t hijack reasonable threads. And they wonder why we eventually get snarky! Why wouldn't we when we've tried everything else? I guess D&P gets boring for them too.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

A new thread that is totally obnoxious is titled something like "Micheal Brown is in a better place".

Hi Yarnie if you are lurking.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I treasure the years I've had. Most of them, at least.


Might as well, think of the alternative. Not much point in worrying about it. jmo.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> If that is the case why did you come here and attack us? We were in the midst of discussing the Civil rights marches and how great it is that black and white young people are marching together to show that they don't agree with how Police act in the US. Then you came and had a temper tantrum. If they were 'fake names and woman murderers why did you come here and start a fight about the avatars???? Suddenly you are out of here -- you do that all the time. come and Stir and then when we answer run back and get sympathy because we are 'picking on you'. sheesh!!
> 
> I just read back to the middle of Nov.we have not discussed KPG because we are not obsessed with her. We are just thankful that for whatever reason, she is staying away. The only one who has was Yarnie until you came on here and ranted.
> 
> I know I did NOT KNOW her name until Yarnie told us. You have confirmed it. I couldn't care less about her name. I have never hidden behind mine and never will. All I know is that she is staying away, which I give thanks for - she is not the center of our universe like she seems to be there. Once she stayed away, we haven't discussed her at all. Read the threads! All the threads we post on. Maybe if you were more interested in the things that are happening in your country, and less interested in making mountains out of molehills, you might be aware of what is going on -


Truly well said. Thank you, Shirley.

And oh boy, is the missing one missed. On FF, they all go on about how wonderful she is, how generous she is, how they miss "Gifty." And how we are backbiters (WCK), full of hate (CB), say terrible things (Yarnie), "people they wouldn't give the time of day" (Knit Crazy), and apparently are part of the group that ended the civil rights movement (bonbf3).

Psychotic, the entire lot.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> It is a shame you all live in a dream world of drama. No one confirmed anything. It is just what is you minds. VL made it up and you all believed her. Get over yourself.


Then what was the harm in my posting a picture of someone named Cheryl Holland. Why was Admin made to delete it and accuse me of posting personal info?

Another question you won't answer, right?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> CB: It is just what is you minds.
> 
> Huh?


Watch it. She gets very touchy when someone points out her illiteracies. Like when she accused you of putting words in her mouth and then said her sons were "law binding." I can't imagine you putting those words in anyone's mouth. Shortly after I corrected her, she came after me, saying I should be banned, I was full of hate, and who knows what else.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> :?: :?: :?:
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about?
> 
> Edit--and now CB's post is gone...I guess even she couldn't understand it.


That's hilarious.

You should, though. Take you papa go back home. (Sorry, I love that and want to keep repeating it.)


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Watch it. She gets very touchy when someone points out her illiteracies. Like when she accused you of putting words in her mouth and then said her sons were "law binding." I can't imagine you putting those words in anyone's mouth. Shortly after I corrected her, she came after me, saying I should be banned, I was full of hate, and who knows what else.


I saw your defense of me and I'm grateful. Resisted the urge to jump in - hard to rein in my irritation when it comes to CB.

For someone with a picture of Jesus as her avatar, she pretty much defines "hypocrite." Glad Admin ignored her ranting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That was the connection that was made when the picture was circulated the first time by one of your group. You guys had a big yuck fest over it at the time. Now it's being recirculated. Same people, same picture, same meaning.


Now it's obvious that you're lying. The picture was never circulated among us, and I should know because I discovered it. No "big yuck fest" over it even after I posted it on FF with a bunch of anti-GOP stuff.

People only asked about it when I made it my avatar for a few hours. No big yuck fest then either.

Yuck to you, too.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Me, too, all the more as I don't think I'm going to 65 more of them.
> 
> I found the perfect small Christmas tree yesterday which made my mother smile. Definitely a good moment to remember. I've gotten a lot of fake foliage from Joann's. My approach to Christmas is that excess is best. I'm off to run errands, one of which is to get cinnamon scented pine cones. It is both a blessing and a curse that I live a little less than 2 blocks from a Joann's


Make the most of it. I have no Joann's here, and the Michael's is near Whole Foods, which I avoid.

Have fun decorating. It seems to make you and your mother happy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It seems to me that the ladies of D&P gave up one of their own by 
going berzerk over a picture of a murderess named Cheryl Holland.
If the name of the murderess is the same as the blow hard who isn't posting, but used to be a royal pain in the arse, then THEY
gave it away. Otherwise why would they be so upset?
What tangled webs they weave! Lying and backpeddaling to try and save face. (pssst it did'nt work.)
VL had nothing to do with anything. Yarnie and CB let the cow out of the barn.

Things must be very boring in D&P for them to come in here and throw tantrums over a picture that is not the same name as one of their own even though it really is according to 2 of the members of D&P. Not very Christian if you ask me.
And another thing: Why is it that if Designer 1234 gives her opinion on current events in the USA, they tell her to butt out because she is not American?
When have they told West Coast Kitty to butt out? Is she not a Canadian , too?

Hmmm, very hypocritical, don't you think?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> A new thread that is totally obnoxious is titled something like "Micheal Brown is in a better place".
> 
> .


Oh, I know. I posted there not realizing the OP was written by a German hardhat. "Abandon hope all ye who enter"--and take along a pair of heavy clippers...the woman will tie you up with piano wires if you disagree.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Oh, I know. I posted there not realizing the OP was written by a German hardhat. "Abandon hope all ye who enter"--and take along a pair of heavy clippers...the woman will tie you up with piano wires if you disagree.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Brunhilda????


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Hello ladies. I've been following the last few days' posts with something approaching despair at the puerility of it all. One thing that I really need to know is: what on earth is a "yuck fest"?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Then what was the harm in my posting a picture of someone named Cheryl Holland. Why was Admin made to delete it and accuse me of posting personal info?
> 
> Another question you won't answer, right?


Why would Ostrich think you were posting personal info? Of course we all know that Cheryl Holland (pre-nerd fabulous glasses) is not the same as the Posterette here. By suggesting "personal info", it makes one think. And the notorious, heinous Cheryl Holland (still she has great taste in glasses) is in the public domain so that is not personal info, either.

I do have one more question and then I promise I may not mention her again. Is Cheryl Holland - who wore penguards in the pockets of her sheer blouse - in prison?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It seems to me that the ladies of D&P gave up one of their own by
> going berzerk over a picture of a murderess named Cheryl Holland.
> If the name of the murderess is the same as the blow hard who isn't posting, but used to be a royal pain in the arse, then THEY
> gave it away. Otherwise why would they be so upset?
> ...


It is an interesting question.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Hello ladies. I've been following the last few days' posts with something approaching despair at the puerility of it all. One thing that I really need to know is: what on earth is a "yuck fest"?


So nice to meet you!

We apologize for putting you in a state of near despair because of the puerility of it all. But why the feather and fan did you follow it for a few days?

I guess a yuck feast is like two toddlers smearing themselves with mud. Something that can be judged awful but still you want to indulge. I may be wrong.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Now it's obvious that you're lying. The picture was never circulated among us, and I should know because I discovered it. No "big yuck fest" over it even after I posted it on FF with a bunch of anti-GOP stuff.
> 
> People only asked about it when I made it my avatar for a few hours. No big yuck fest then either.
> 
> Yuck to you, too.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Brunhilda????


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

SQM said:


> So nice to meet you!
> 
> We apologize for putting you in a state of near despair because of the puerility of it all. But why the feather and fan did you follow it for a few days?
> 
> I guess a yuck feast is like two toddlers smearing themselves with mud. Something that can be judged awful but still you want to indulge. I may be wrong.


I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).

I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).
> 
> I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


Haven't seen you around for a while, Aw. You say you're nailed to the sofa--hope everything's OK.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).
> 
> I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


I get the feeling you would be a great asset on this and the other 'Liberal' threads. Please contribute. I'm not well versed in the internal politics of the U.S., but when it comes to world current affairs, I always get a hearing from the gang.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Wombat, thanks very much. I feel I have more in common with the Aussies on here - at least we speak a similar language. I'm nailed to the settee through a bit of a fibromyalgia spell (not uncommon on here, unfortunately), and the cold weather does my hypermobile joints no favours. I think I might dip a toe in to contributing again, although I suspect I'm quite a bit further to the left than most of you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).
> 
> I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


Actually, I stay here because the people on the Liberal side are very smart and I have learned a huge amount from them. They don't expect us all to agree on everything and I have learned to like and respect them all. They really care and that is a huge thing. I feel very much at home with them.

I just post my opinions, as I am not an American I don't know the Political people, and I don't know their laws so I just post my opinions on what I read on the news. They have always accepted my opinions and have been very very kind to me.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Wombat, thanks very much. I feel I have more in common with the Aussies on here - at least we speak a similar language. I'm nailed to the settee through a bit of a fibromyalgia spell (not uncommon on here, unfortunately), and the cold weather does my hypermobile joints no favours. I think I might dip a toe in to contributing again, although I suspect I'm quite a bit further to the left than most of you.


Ouch--I've heard about fibromyalgia, and it certainly doesn't sound like fun. I'm glad your spirits seem up--hope too that your lovely daughter is well.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I get the feeling you would be a great asset on this and the other 'Liberal' threads. Please contribute. I'm not well versed in the internal politics of the U.S., but when it comes to world current affairs, I always get a hearing from the gang.


The love a discussion about just about any subject - I do too so I feel at home here. We solve the problems of the world (not).


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

What's north of England?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ouch--I've heard about fibromyalgia, and it certainly doesn't sound like fun. I'm glad your spirits seem up--hope too that your lovely daughter is well.


No point whinging round here. Thank you for remembering my girl - unfortunately, there's not much around at the moment outside London so she's waitressing. She's taken her eye off the ball because she's in love. He's a lovely young man, so it could be a lot worse.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Brunhilda????


The poster's name is Andy. Male?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

SQM said:


> What's north of England?


Sorry, it's meant to convey that I'm in the north of England, not Scotland.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why would Ostrich think you were posting personal info? Of course we all know that Cheryl Holland (pre-nerd fabulous glasses) is not the same as the Posterette here. By suggesting "personal info", it makes one think. And the notorious, heinous Cheryl Holland (still she has great taste in glasses) is in the public domain so that is not personal info, either.
> 
> I do have one more question and then I promise I may not mention her again. Is Cheryl Holland - who wore penguards in the pockets of her sheer blouse - in prison?


Yes. She had disappeared, but a month after her case was on Wanted or some other TV show, she was caught.

She's something of a star. http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Cheryl_Holland

But go down to the Q&A on this page: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=245555


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).
> 
> I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


Are you not well? Sorry.

Yuck is slang for laugh. A bad joke is a yuck. So a yuck fest would be a whole bunch of silly people laughing at some bad joke. Like Cheryl Holland.

You must bring us up to date on your daughter's doings. Is she being paid to dance?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes. She had disappeared, but a month after her case was on Wanted or some other TV show, she was caught.
> 
> She's something of a star. http://unsolvedmysteries.wikia.com/wiki/Cheryl_Holland
> 
> But go down to the Q&A on this page: http://www.sitcomsonline.com/boards/showthread.php?t=245555


Enjoyed the links but none of the posts mentioned Cheryl's glasses. Am I the only one who notices them?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wouldn't you love to see Admin trying to deal with that?



Poor Purl said:


> Watch it. She gets very touchy when someone points out her illiteracies. Like when she accused you of putting words in her mouth and then said her sons were "law binding." I can't imagine you putting those words in anyone's mouth. Shortly after I corrected her, she came after me, saying I should be banned, I was full of hate, and who knows what else.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Take you papa go back home. 
Take you papa go back home. 
Take you papa go back home. 

It is fun.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Enjoyed the links but none of the posts mentioned Cheryl's glasses. Am I the only one who notices them?


Apparently.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Take you papa go back home.
> Take you papa go back home.
> Take you papa go back home.
> 
> It is fun.


Have you seen my new signature? I love it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It seems to me that the ladies of D&P gave up one of their own by
> going berzerk over a picture of a murderess named Cheryl Holland.
> If the name of the murderess is the same as the blow hard who isn't posting, but used to be a royal pain in the arse, then THEY
> gave it away. Otherwise why would they be so upset?
> ...


I just think it's funny!!!!! They blew the whistle on gifty. They divulged personal information. Maybe we should ask Admin to delete it for this reason. They are ignorant of geography, theology and every other possible -ology. And they whine worse than sugar-deprived teenagers. It's better than watching those late night funny shows.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Why would Ostrich think you were posting personal info? Of course we all know that Cheryl Holland (pre-nerd fabulous glasses) is not the same as the Posterette here. By suggesting "personal info", it makes one think. And the notorious, heinous Cheryl Holland (still she has great taste in glasses) is in the public domain so that is not personal info, either.
> 
> I do have one more question and then I promise I may not mention her again. Is Cheryl Holland - who wore penguards in the pockets of her sheer blouse - in prison?


1. Ostrich confirms that he/she who must not be named is truly CH, a name given to Cherf years ago.

2. No one ever believed any of the above mentioned have been in jail for murder. That is assumed to be a confusion of common names.

3. I don't see how repeating information in the public domain could be a problem.

IMHO, but I'm no expert.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I just think it's funny!!!!! They blew the whistle on gifty. They divulged personal information. Maybe we should ask Admin to delete it for this reason. They are ignorant of geography, theology and every other possible -ology. And they whine worse than sugar-deprived teenagers. It's better than watching those late night funny shows.


You are absolutely right. Also wonderful. And then they accuse us. They are also ignorant of how to keep their mouths shut.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And inquiring minds want to know.



Designer1234 said:


> It is an interesting question.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> 1. Ostrich confirms that he/she who must not be named is truly CH, a name given to Cherf years ago.
> 
> 2. No one ever believed any of the above mentioned have been in jail for murder. That is assumed to be a confusion of common names.
> 
> ...


I don't think he bothered to see what they were complaining about. They said "personal info," so that's what he said.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome. Please feel free to post. Knowledge is not a requirement, but a sense of humor is. You're right about the telly. A new reality show? Now who do I pitch it to?



aw9358 said:


> I hope you realise who I consider the puerile ones. I follow it because it's often the most interesting thread on this forum, and I do learn something about current events over your way. I don't often post these days because I can't really contribute to your debates, and I've been shouted at in the past (not by your chums, I hasten to say).
> 
> I also follow you because I'm nailed to the settee most days, and it's better than the telly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Wombat, thanks very much. I feel I have more in common with the Aussies on here - at least we speak a similar language. I'm nailed to the settee through a bit of a fibromyalgia spell (not uncommon on here, unfortunately), and the cold weather does my hypermobile joints no favours. I think I might dip a toe in to contributing again, although I suspect I'm quite a bit further to the left than most of you.


Further to the left? Come sit by me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you seen my new signature? I love it.


Hey everyone! Look it up. Both are great. PP thanks for the heads-up.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Wombat, thanks very much. I feel I have more in common with the Aussies on here - at least we speak a similar language. I'm nailed to the settee through a bit of a fibromyalgia spell (not uncommon on here, unfortunately), and the cold weather does my hypermobile joints no favours. I think I might dip a toe in to contributing again, although I suspect I'm quite a bit further to the left than most of you.


Sorry to hear about your fibromyalgia. Awful for you. Hope the spell passes soon.

I don't think it's possible to be to the left of me. C'mon in!


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Sorry to hear about your fibromyalgia. Awful for you. Hope the spell passes soon.
> 
> I don't think it's possible to be to the left of me. C'mon in!


Thank you for the good wishes. I've had it for a long time, and it comes and goes.

I have read your contributions with great interest over the last few weeks, and I don't think I've disagreed with anything. I like the way you think and write - you express yourself in ways I envy. The fibrofog (a term I hate) has removed a lot of my means of expression.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you for the good wishes. I've had it for a long time, and it comes and goes.
> 
> I have read your contributions with great interest over the last few weeks, and I don't think I've disagreed with anything. I like the way you think and write - you express yourself in ways I envy. The fibrofog (a term I hate) has removed a lot of my means of expression.


Thank you for the words of support.

Fibrofog. Never heard that term before, but because I have friends with the illness, I understand. Understand the frustration, too. My hope is that you are better soon. Hang around here and we will keep you distracted - a little, anyway.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Take you papa go back home.
> Take you papa go back home.
> Take you papa go back home.
> 
> It is fun.


 Sounds like the start of an old blues song:

Take yer papa'n go back home 
Take yer papa'n go back home
Feed him up on good corn pone
He won't never want to roam


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> :?: :?: :?:
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about?
> 
> Edit--and now CB's post is gone...I guess even she couldn't understand it.


no she never stays - she reads things wrong, then attacks then when someone answers and tells her what really happens she says we are going to tear her apart like a bunch of hyenas then runs back to D and P and complains. Usually that we are attacking her.

I have not seen a post about "Giftie" since the middle of November I sure didn't go looking. Yet they don't even hear, they ignore it as if we haven't even spoken. They prefer to put words in our mouths and call us liars. so stupid.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hey everyone! Look it up. Both are great. PP thanks for the heads-up.


Where do I look it up? I am tired tonight so that might be a geriatric moment.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Where do I look it up? I am tired tonight so that might be a geriatric moment.


Poor Purl added to her "signature line." It is a memorable quote from Country Bumpkins. Go to any PP post - it's there at the bottom.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you for the good wishes. I've had it for a long time, and it comes and goes.
> 
> I have read your contributions with great interest over the last few weeks, and I don't think I've disagreed with anything. I like the way you think and write - you express yourself in ways I envy. The fibrofog (a term I hate) has removed a lot of my means of expression.


Hey Aw! Long time no see! I hear ya loud and clear on the fibro.
Hope you have more good days ahead!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I can't find the thread~


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sounds like the start of an old blues song:
> 
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> ...


Haha. Bha ha.

Add "Susan" to your song and it will become an instant classic.

Maybe our game tonight should be "Write That Song". A point will be given to all who write a second verse not the same as the first.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> That was the connection that was made when the picture was circulated the first time by one of your group. You guys had a big yuck fest over it at the time. Now it's being recirculated. Same people, same picture, same meaning.


This picture has* never* before been circulated on KP.
A different pic was posted a year and a half ago. It's not the same.
Not even close. So when you point your fickle finger, make sure you have the facts straight.
If your group says it isn't "you know who," then why all the fuss?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Poor Purl added to her "signature line." It is a memorable quote from Country Bumpkins. Go to any PP post - it's there at the bottom.


Memorable, indeed--if what Maid is correct then C.B's something of a plagerist (and a lot more besides). By golly, why DID she post that line and then delete it seconds later? A ten-finger slip on the keyboard, perhaps? (Wink wink)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Memorable, indeed--if what Maid is correct then C.B's something of a plagerist (and a lot more besides). By golly, why DID she post that line and then delete it seconds later? A ten-finger slip on the keyboard, perhaps? (Wink wink)


Well, Susan, we all know that Papa was a Rollin' Stone, you know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sounds like the start of an old blues song:
> 
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> no she never stays - she reads things wrong, then attacks then when someone answers and tells her what really happens she says we are going to tear her apart like a bunch of hyenas then runs back to D and P and complains. Usually that we are attacking her.
> 
> I have not seen a post about "Giftie" since the middle of November I sure didn't go looking. Yet they don't even hear, they ignore it as if we haven't even spoken. They prefer to put words in our mouths and call us liars. so stupid.


A perfect description of CB's behavior. I would call it chickens&%t, but I'm much too well behaved to use such language.

I love the name Giftie. It's in my favorite quotation from Robert Burns: "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as others see us!" (meaning: Oh would some power the giftie give us, To see ourselves as others see us). I think they could all use that power.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> A perfect description of CB's behavior. I would call it chickens&%t, but I'm much too well behaved to use such language.
> 
> I love the name Giftie. It's in my favorite quotation from Robert Burns: "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
> To see oursels as others see us!" (meaning: Oh would some power the giftie give us, To see ourselves as others see us). I think they could all use that power.


Psychic Sloth was talking about this idea with a friend earlier. I said I would love to see myself as others see me. I know I delude myself when I look in the mirror and I need to keep the lights dim of course.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> This picture has* never* before been circulated on KP.
> A different pic was posted a year and a half ago. It's not the same.
> Not even close. So when you point your fickle finger, make sure you have the facts straight.
> If your group says it isn't "you know who," then why all the fuss?


Patty, they've been making things up for days, now. They deny it's you-know-who, but they tell Admin we're posting personal info. They scream that we're saying terrible things about her, but there's nothing there. Then So Low comes and claims we had a "yuck fest" over a picture that hadn't been posted yet.

It's a miracle that a bunch of women with no imagination could make up so many stories. Now if only they could remember which lie they're telling, they wouldn't keep tripping over their own feet.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Brat and PP.

I have been talking about Cheryl Holland a lot because I love her campy glasses. Are we still allowed to post her picture? I need my Cheryl Holland fix.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Psychic Sloth was talking about this idea with a friend earlier. I said I would love to see myself as others see me. I know I delude myself when I look in the mirror and I need to keep the lights dim of course.


Take selfies. And keep them to yourself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Brat and PP.
> 
> I have been talking about Cheryl Holland a lot because I love her campy glasses. Are we still allowed to post her picture? I need my Cheryl Holland fix.


 Check your email. You need never again go without.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A perfect description of CB's behavior. I would call it chickens&%t, but I'm much too well behaved to use such language.
> 
> I love the name Giftie. It's in my favorite quotation from Robert Burns: "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
> To see oursels as others see us!" (meaning: Oh would some power the giftie give us, To see ourselves as others see us). I think they could all use that power.


It's suitable in more ways than one--didn't Bobby Burns pen that after seeing a louse creep across a society woman's shoulder? :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A perfect description of CB's behavior. I would call it chickens&%t, but I'm much too well behaved to use such language.
> 
> I love the name Giftie. It's in my favorite quotation from Robert Burns: "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
> To see oursels as others see us!" (meaning: Oh would some power the giftie give us, To see ourselves as others see us). I think they could all use that power.


You changed my favorite word---as ITHERS see us, nu?
And from a mouse---the best laid schemes . . . . .gang aft agley. I love saying those weird words.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's suitable in more ways than one--didn't Bobby Burns pen that after seeing a louse creep across a society woman's shoulder? :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Yes, he did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you believe the disease has removed a lot of your means of expression, you must work hard to defeat it. I don't see any proof of it in your comments. You have much to add to the group.



aw9358 said:


> Thank you for the good wishes. I've had it for a long time, and it comes and goes.
> 
> I have read your contributions with great interest over the last few weeks, and I don't think I've disagreed with anything. I like the way you think and write - you express yourself in ways I envy. The fibrofog (a term I hate) has removed a lot of my means of expression.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo MIB. Your knowledge of old tunes is wonderful. Thanks for sharing.

Do you think she was trying to say this? She sure gives me the blues.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Sounds like the start of an old blues song:
> 
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> Take yer papa'n go back home
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Look at a posted comment of Purl's. Below are a couple lines of quotes she likes.



Designer1234 said:


> Where do I look it up? I am tired tonight so that might be a geriatric moment.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Which one are you looking for?



BrattyPatty said:


> I can't find the thread~


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> This picture has* never* before been circulated on KP.
> A different pic was posted a year and a half ago. It's not the same.
> Not even close. So when you point your fickle finger, make sure you have the facts straight.
> If your group says it isn't "you know who," then why all the fuss?


I'll say it again. If it isn't 'YKW' why all the fuss?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The quick delete trick was a standard of YKW. We can assume where she learned it. It's useful in those he said/she said arguments.



susanmos2000 said:


> Memorable, indeed--if what Maid is correct then C.B's something of a plagerist (and a lot more besides). By golly, why DID she post that line and then delete it seconds later? A ten-finger slip on the keyboard, perhaps? (Wink wink)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Well, Susan, we all know that Papa was a Rollin' Stone, you know.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'll say it again. If it isn't 'YKW' why all the fuss?


They are getting very crochety lately., IMHO. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Done. Giftie it is. And we do hope she comes to see herself as others see her.



Poor Purl said:


> A perfect description of CB's behavior. I would call it chickens&%t, but I'm much too well behaved to use such language.
> 
> I love the name Giftie. It's in my favorite quotation from Robert Burns: "O, wad some Power the giftie gie us
> To see oursels as others see us!" (meaning: Oh would some power the giftie give us, To see ourselves as others see us). I think they could all use that power.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me, it is most important to understand myself. "This above all, to thine own self be true and then it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man." Will Shakespeare



SQM said:


> Psychic Sloth was talking about this idea with a friend earlier. I said I would love to see myself as others see me. I know I delude myself when I look in the mirror and I need to keep the lights dim of course.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

is it true that if I say a certain name - the name will make some money?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, they've been making things up for days, now. They deny it's you-know-who, but they tell Admin we're posting personal info. They scream that we're saying terrible things about her, but there's nothing there. Then So Low comes and claims we had a "yuck fest" over a picture that hadn't been posted yet.
> 
> It's a miracle that a bunch of women with no imagination could make up so many stories. Now if only they could remember which lie they're telling, they wouldn't keep tripping over their own feet.


It's difficult to argue with that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's suitable in more ways than one--didn't Bobby Burns pen that after seeing a louse creep across a society woman's shoulder? :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Live and learn.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> To me, it is most important to understand myself.


I'm not interested ------ in knowing myself, that is.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> is it true that if I say a certain name - the name will make some money?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Just another one of the many lies it tells.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just makes me see myself in a kilt with one of those brass pins.



cookiequeen said:


> You changed my favorite word---as ITHERS see us, nu?
> And from a mouse---the best laid schemes . . . . .gang aft agley. I love saying those weird words.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Just another one of the many lies it tells.


Where is this lie being perpetrated? I must investigate.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Something must be bothering them. Alas, they never express themselves clearly.



BrattyPatty said:


> They are getting very crochety lately., IMHO. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Where is this lie being perpetrated? I must investigate.


You will have to go through some posts from Sept and back? Maybe Oct?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> You changed my favorite word---as ITHERS see us, nu?
> And from a mouse---the best laid schemes . . . . .gang aft agley. I love saying those weird words.


Why do I love you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> is it true that if I say a certain name - the name will make some money?


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


Looking for clarity on this one, also.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Something must be bothering them. Alas, they never express themselves clearly.


I cant believe that they complained to Admin over a picture that they have no idea about. PP posted a link to that pic.
So the lady in the pic has the same name that someone in their group doesn't have????? Oy Vey!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Time for a 'once upon a time.'

Once upon a time, when my children were toddlers, the eldest had an imaginary friend, Kobap. One day there was a life and death fight going on. I separated them and tried to figure out what the fuss was. Turns out the youngest stole the other's imaginary friend.

Sounds familiar.



BrattyPatty said:


> I cant believe that they complained to Admin over a picture that they have no idea about. PP posted a link to that pic.
> So the lady in the pic has the same name that someone in their group doesn't have????? Oy Vey!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Time for a 'once upon a time.'
> 
> Once upon a time, when my children were toddlers, the eldest had an imaginary friend, Kobap. One day there was a life and death fight going on. I separated them and tried to figure out what the fuss was. Turns out the youngest stole the other's imaginary friend.
> 
> Sounds familiar.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Looking for clarity on this one, also.


A month or so ago, YKW claimed she'd made a deal with some advertiser or other whereby she'd receive a sum of money every time anyone mentioned the name "KnittingPresentsGifts"--or tapped in the initials, or something like that. The details escape me--I don't care much for fairy tales. That *ka-ching* noise they occasionally make isn't the bells on their tricycles sounding--rather, it's them working pretend registers and ringing up tremendous (imaginary) profits.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh. Thanks for the historical comment. Does anyone believe any of this? I don't.



susanmos2000 said:


> A month or so ago, YKW claimed she'd made a deal with some advertiser or other whereby she'd receive a sum of money every time anyone mentioned the name "KnittingPresentsGifts"--or tapped in the initials, or something like that. The details escape me--I don't care much for fairy tales. That *ka-ching* noise they occasionally make isn't the bells on their tricycles sounding--rather, it's them working pretend registers and ringing up tremendous (imaginary) profits.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> A month or so ago, YKW claimed she'd made a deal with some advertiser or other whereby she'd receive a sum of money every time anyone mentioned the name "KnittingPresentsGifts"--or tapped in the initials, or something like that. The details escape me--I don't care much for fairy tales. No, that *ka-ching* noise they occasionally make isn't the bells on their tricycles sounding--rather, it's them working pretend registers and ringing up tremendous (imaginary) profits.


I guess I can use KGB again even tho I wonder if you can copyright an avatar unless this is her business name. But the initials are common so something does not commute.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> is it true that if I say a certain name - the name will make some money?


That's what she said. Ergo, not true.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> They are getting very crochety lately., IMHO. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


Because Mommy isn't there to tell them what to do or give them cookies.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You changed my favorite word---as ITHERS see us, nu?
> And from a mouse---the best laid schemes . . . . .gang aft agley. I love saying those weird words.


Oops. I'm afraid I cut and pasted from, I think, Goodreads. From now on, I'll be more careful and not let it gang agley.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just makes me see myself in a kilt with one of those brass pins.


You know what a Scotsman wears under his kilt, I hope.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Time for a 'once upon a time.'
> 
> Once upon a time, when my children were toddlers, the eldest had an imaginary friend, Kobap. One day there was a life and death fight going on. I separated them and tried to figure out what the fuss was. Turns out the youngest stole the other's imaginary friend.
> 
> Sounds familiar.


Yes, it does. Love the story.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder if Moms is in touch some other way.



Poor Purl said:


> Because Mommy isn't there to tell them what to do or give them cookies.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Do Scotswomen wear kilts or it just American teenage girls in the 1960's? As I recall, I had more under my kilt than anyone seems to wear today. (Underpants, tights, pettipants.) (Anyone remember pettipants?)



Poor Purl said:


> You know what a Scotsman wears under his kilt, I hope.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I looked at the younger (18 months) differently after that.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, it does. Love the story.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Oh. Thanks for the historical comment. Does anyone believe any of this? I don't.


Oh ye of little faith, of course I believe it, every word. The sainted YKH would never tell fibs, heaven forbid. Go wash your mouth out with chocolate, or coffee, of Chivas Regal, immediately.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Time for a 'once upon a time.'
> 
> Once upon a time, when my children were toddlers, the eldest had an imaginary friend, Kobap. One day there was a life and death fight going on. I separated them and tried to figure out what the fuss was. Turns out the youngest stole the other's imaginary friend.
> 
> Sounds familiar.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Wombat, thanks very much. I feel I have more in common with the Aussies on here - at least we speak a similar language. I'm nailed to the settee through a bit of a fibromyalgia spell (not uncommon on here, unfortunately), and the cold weather does my hypermobile joints no favours. I think I might dip a toe in to contributing again, although I suspect I'm quite a bit further to the left than most of you.


The more left, the better! Adds spice and interest aw.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> The love a discussion about just about any subject - I do too so I feel at home here. We solve the problems of the world (not).


Designer, at least we try to understand.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you seen my new signature? I love it.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Psychic Sloth was talking about this idea with a friend earlier. I said I would love to see myself as others see me. I know I delude myself when I look in the mirror and I need to keep the lights dim of course.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Oh. Thanks for the historical comment. Does anyone believe any of this? I don't.


Defies reason.

What benefit would an advertiser gain from a "hit" on that name?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Time for a 'once upon a time.'
> 
> Once upon a time, when my children were toddlers, the eldest had an imaginary friend, Kobap. One day there was a life and death fight going on. I separated them and tried to figure out what the fuss was. Turns out the youngest stole the other's imaginary friend.
> 
> Sounds familiar.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Loving all the laughs!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Chocolate! Yum. Scotch is good too but don't drink much any more. And I prefer tea to coffee.

What were we talking about? Never mind. This is better. I toast you Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> Oh ye of little faith, of course I believe it, every word. The sainted YKH would never tell fibs, heaven forbid. Go wash your mouth out with chocolate, or coffee, of Chivas Regal, immediately.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> :?: :?: :?:
> 
> Does anyone have a clue what she's talking about?
> 
> Edit--and now CB's post is gone...I guess even she couldn't understand it.


Nice little tap dance you're doing there, Susan, since it is you who knows EXACTLY what CB is talking about!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Nice little tap dance you're doing there, Susan, since it is you who knows EXACTLY what CB is talking about!


Hard to tell when she can't write a coherent sentence.

"CB: It is just what is you minds."


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Hard to tell when she can't write a coherent sentence.
> 
> "CB: It is just what is you minds."


Not hard for the instigator to know what it means.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Not hard for the instigator to know what it means.


Thanks, Gerslay, for confirming my suspicions. Frankly, I never like to believe the worst about anyone--even my political foes--but I guess my initial hunch was correct: beneath those elaborate Sunday dresses you gals favor lurks at least one white sheet. That being the case I suppose I'd best be shuffling along...feet, do your stuff!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Gerslay, for confirming my suspicions. Frankly, I never like to believe the worst about anyone--even my political foes--but I guess my initial hunch was correct: beneath those elaborate Sunday dresses you gals favor lurks at least one white sheet. That being the case I suppose I'd best be shuffling along...feet, do your stuff!


 :lol: :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you claiming to be a mind-reader now? Maybe you should try daytime TV.



Gerslay said:


> Nice little tap dance you're doing there, Susan, since it is you who knows EXACTLY what CB is talking about!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Not hard for the instigator to know what it means.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Vague accusations. Pffffft.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love the avatar. Perfect.



susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Gerslay, for confirming my suspicions. Frankly, I never like to believe the worst about anyone--even my political foes--but I guess my initial hunch was correct: beneath those elaborate Sunday dresses you gals favor lurks at least one white sheet. That being the case I suppose I'd best be shuffling along...feet, do your stuff!


 :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I'm a little more energetic today.

Don't you think it's strange that the very people who complain that education these days is dumbed down are the ones who can't seem to string together a coherent and grammatical sentence? I remember being admonished very severely by our absent friend for "the ugliest grammar I've ever seen". Bless her heart (as I believe you say in some parts).


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Whoops, I hope nobody saw my errors up there. That would have been some savage irony.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I'm a little more energetic today.
> 
> Don't you think it's strange that the very people who complain that education these days is dumbed down are the ones who can't seem to string together a coherent and grammatical sentence? I remember being admonished very severely by our absent friend for "the ugliest grammar I've ever seen". Bless her heart (as I believe you say in some parts).


We all did the Tinkerbell clap for you.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> We all did the Tinkerbell clap for you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Whoops, I hope nobody saw my errors up there. That would have been some savage irony.


LOL Been there.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Love the avatar. Perfect.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Isn't it? Such a talented couple--I've always enjoyed a good old buck and wing.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I'm a little more energetic today.
> 
> Don't you think it's strange that the very people who complain that education these days is dumbed down are the ones who can't seem to string together a coherent and grammatical sentence? I remember being admonished very severely by our absent friend for "the ugliest grammar I've ever seen". Bless her heart (as I believe you say in some parts).


Wonderful, Aw. Hope that's a sign as well that the weather has improved.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Haha. Bha ha.
> 
> Add "Susan" to your song and it will become an instant classic.
> 
> Maybe our game tonight should be "Write That Song". A point will be given to all who write a second verse not the same as the first.


Proposed Title: "Suzie's Blues". It's a common practice to repeat lines in various idioms of folk music. :-D


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I'm a little more energetic today.
> 
> Don't you think it's strange that the very people who complain that education these days is dumbed down are the ones who can't seem to string together a coherent and grammatical sentence? I remember being admonished very severely by our absent friend for "the ugliest grammar I've ever seen". Bless her heart (as I believe you say in some parts).


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Proposed Title: "Suzie's Blues". It's a common practice to repeat line in various kinds of folk music. :-D


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, they've been making things up for days, now. They deny it's you-know-who, but they tell Admin we're posting personal info. They scream that we're saying terrible things about her, but there's nothing there. Then So Low comes and claims we had a "yuck fest" over a picture that hadn't been posted yet.
> 
> It's a miracle that a bunch of women with no imagination could make up so many stories. Now if only they could remember which lie they're telling, they wouldn't keep tripping over their own feet.


Maybe they're all idiot savants who can only make up stories but couldn't tie their shoes even if it was a matter of life or death. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Bravo MIB. Your knowledge of old tunes is wonderful. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> Do you think she was trying to say this? She sure gives me the blues.


Hey, dame, I was just riffing off your post. Your new avatar is way cool.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Gerslay, for confirming my suspicions. Frankly, I never like to believe the worst about anyone--even my political foes--but I guess my initial hunch was correct: beneath those elaborate Sunday dresses you gals favor lurks at least one white sheet. That being the case I suppose I'd best be shuffling along...feet, do your stuff!


Nice try! You can feign innocence all you want in front of your friends but there are some of us who will never forget your venomous ways!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Do Scotswomen wear kilts or it just American teenage girls in the 1960's? As I recall, I had more under my kilt than anyone seems to wear today. (Underpants, tights, pettipants.) (Anyone remember pettipants?)


Good old pettipants. I bought some a couple of years ago at Sears, and still have a pair I got in 1967.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Nice try! You can feign innocence all you want in front of your friends but there are some of us who will never forget your venomous ways!


Me? Why, I'm crushed, Gerslay dear. You make me sound like a truly black-hearted soul.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Chocolate! Yum. Scotch is good too but don't drink much any more. And I prefer tea to coffee.
> 
> What were we talking about? Never mind. This is better. I toast you Eve.


And I salute you, my friend. I salute you with a nice mug of warm milk, to which I have added a goodly dollop of the Chivas Regal.

My son bought a bottle of Wild Turkey with American Honey, now that is a very pleasant drink, so smooth. No milk added to that one. He has a knack of picking out an excellent wine or something stronger. He also chooses excellent boutique beers.

I think this new keyboard is a little tipsy, it is making so many typos.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I wonder if Moms is in touch some other way.


I'm sure they email, and there's that group on Ravelry, but I think she's getting ready for some craft show and has a lot of sewing to do.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Whoops, I hope nobody saw my errors up there. That would have been some savage irony.


To err is human but to forgive is divine. We forgive you any minor transgressions.

I hope you are feeling better, nothing worse than constant pain, especially neck and back pain. Pills, potions and pain killers often make it worse, you end up walking around in a dense cloud. Take plenty of naps and when your body screams "sleep and sleep now" listen to it and take forty winks. I find the forty winks is necessary; several times a day. Unless you have to go to work it does not matter if you have a highly irregular sleep pattern. I find that the pain is often less in the wee morning hours, especially the hours before the ********* dawn.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure they email, and there's that group on Ravelry, but I think she's getting ready for some craft show and has a lot of sewing to do.


I couldn't find anything on Ravelry that was the least bit political.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Do Scotswomen wear kilts or it just American teenage girls in the 1960's? As I recall, I had more under my kilt than anyone seems to wear today. (Underpants, tights, pettipants.) (Anyone remember pettipants?)


I don't think Scotswomen wear kilts. I've seen Brigadoon a couple of times, and all I recall are long skirts.

And yes, I remember pettipants. I still have a pair I wear under a skirt if it's really cold out. Panty hose don't keep my bottom half warm enough.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> To err is human but to forgive is divine. We forgive you any minor transgressions.
> 
> I hope you are feeling better, nothing worse than constant pain, especially neck and back pain. Pills, potions and pain killers often make it worse, you end up walking around in a dense cloud. Take plenty of naps and when your body screams "sleep and sleep now" listen to it and take forty winks. I find the forty winks is necessary; several times a day. Unless you have to go to work it does not matter if you have a highly irregular sleep pattern. I find that the pain is often less in the wee morning hours, especially the hours before the ********* dawn.


I'm sure that goes for many of us, Evie. I have a twelve-year old son and a very busy schedule, but I find I could sleep all day and sleep all night. Who knows why?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Nice little tap dance you're doing there, Susan, since it is you who knows EXACTLY what CB is talking about!


Really? "Take you papa go back home" means something to you?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, Gerslay, for confirming my suspicions. Frankly, I never like to believe the worst about anyone--even my political foes--but I guess my initial hunch was correct: beneath those elaborate Sunday dresses you gals favor lurks at least one white sheet. That being the case I suppose I'd best be shuffling along...feet, do your stuff!


Well, Susan, apparently Gerslay has your number, even if the rest of us don't.

:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure that goes for many of us, Evie. I have a twelve-year old son and a very busy schedule, but I find I could sleep all day and sleep all night. Who knows why?


If they ever made sleeping an Olympic sport then I would be a gold medalist, thats for sure. Or should that be 'that's for sure'????

Maybe we are just reincarnated cats, you know how many hours cats sleep every day, and they have naps in between their sleeps.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Thanks to everyone for the good wishes. I'm a little more energetic today.
> 
> Don't you think it's strange that the very people who complain that education these days is dumbed down are the ones who can't seem to string together a coherent and grammatical sentence? I remember being admonished very severely by our absent friend for "the ugliest grammar I've ever seen". Bless her heart (as I believe you say in some parts).


Maybe she meant you were the ugliest Grandma she had ever seen. Her grammar, such as it is, is very strange. As is her lexicon.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe they're all idiot savants who can only make up stories but couldn't tie their shoes even if it was a matter of life or death. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


I would agree, except I know they can follow cream-cheese recipes. But I suppose they can also wear clogs and not have to tie their shoes.

I think "savants" is giving them too much credit.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, Susan, apparently Gerslay has your number, even if the rest of us don't.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


I suppose so, Purl. Guess D & Ps resident stalker has been peeking through my windows and caught me indulging in a little soft shoe.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Nice try! You can feign innocence all you want in front of your friends but there are some of us who will never forget your venomous ways!


Will you stop the innuendo and be open about it?

And if you're referring to that lie that Susan said something despicable to Yarnie, it's been debunked. Time to stop bringing it up.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe she meant you were the ugliest Grandma she had ever seen. Her grammar, such as it is, is very strange. As is her lexicon.


Now I'm crying. That's hilarious.

In answer to Eve, some days I feel I could sleep for 16 hours. I've definitely slowed down since I've been prescribed morphine. It's sometimes hard to decide which would be better - permanent slow motion or the alternative. Still, I managed to get dressed today after two days in pyjamas. Anyway, everybody please stop it now. It's starting to feel like D&P.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I would agree, except I know they can follow cream-cheese recipes. But I suppose they can also wear clogs and not have to tie their shoes.
> 
> I think "savants" is giving them too much credit.


Anyone can follow a cream cheese recipe, so I don't think that changes my take on some of our dear friends.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Bleep this!! Another duplicate post.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Me? Why, I'm crushed, Gerslay dear. You make me sound like a truly black-hearted soul.


She certainly would like to, and their strange memories allow for it. Even though you never said what she probably has in mind, that's the only thing she'll remember about you, and will keep harping on it, but only by insinuation. No honesty there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I couldn't find anything on Ravelry that was the least bit political.


There's a group called Denim and Pearls and Prada, which seems to belong to them. But maybe it's full of recipes, too.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> If they ever made sleeping an Olympic sport then I would be a gold medalist, thats for sure. Or should that be 'that's for sure'????
> 
> Maybe we are just reincarnated cats, you know how many hours cats sleep every day, and they have naps in between their sleeps.


Could well be, Evie. I adore cats, but somehow I can't imagine my soul residing comfortably in a placid house kitty. More likely a stealthy black panther--or perhaps? a ferocious jungle cat.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Now I'm crying. That's hilarious.
> 
> In answer to Eve, some days I feel I could sleep for 16 hours. I've definitely slowed down since I've been prescribed morphine. It's sometimes hard to decide which would be better - permanent slow motion or the alternative. Still, I managed to get dressed today after two days in pyjamas. Anyway, everybody please stop it now. It's starting to feel like D&P.


Oh, bite your tongue (even if that hurts like the dickens).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Anyone can follow a cream cheese recipe, so I don't think that changes my take on some of our dear friends.


I'd still go with "idiot savants" minus the "savants."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Could well be, Evie. I adore cats, but somehow I can't imagine my soul residing comfortably in a placid house kitty. More likely a stealthy black panther--or perhaps? a ferocious jungle cat.


Bears can sleep for 6 months, can't they?


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Could well be, Evie. I adore cats, but somehow I can't imagine my soul residing comfortably in a placid house kitty. More likely a stealthy black panther--or perhaps? a ferocious jungle cat.


Perhaps a beautiful Snow Leopard. Do you have blue eyes?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps a beautiful Snow Leopard. Do you have blue eyes?


Like twin saphires, Evie. You're right--it's a perfect fit.

I am woman, hear me roar! (and spit and growl and whatever else it is that leopards do)


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Like twin saphires, Evie. You're right--it's a perfect fit.
> 
> I am woman, hear me roar! (and spit and growl and whatever else it is that leopards do)


Love your new avatar. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe they're all idiot savants who can only make up stories but couldn't tie their shoes even if it was a matter of life or death. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks. I'm loving the house info.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Hey, dame, I was just riffing off your post. Your new avatar is way cool.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Nice try! You can feign innocence all you want in front of your friends but there are some of us who will never forget your venomous ways!


Right back at you.

Let's just stop this foolishness. The bickering annoys others, and I find it boring. Don't you have something to say about the Supreme Court? The exploding issues around Ferguson? Pick something else.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mine all fell apart. Sears is closing stores and has not much to look at. I miss them. They were pretty and practical.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Good old pettipants. I bought some a couple of years ago at Sears, and still have a pair I got in 1967.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love your snarl. Here comes my kitty.



susanmos2000 said:


> Me? Why, I'm crushed, Gerslay dear. You make me sound like a truly black-hearted soul.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> And I salute you, my friend. I salute you with a nice mug of warm milk, to which I have added a goodly dollop of the Chivas Regal.
> 
> My son bought a bottle of Wild Turkey with American Honey, now that is a very pleasant drink, so smooth. No milk added to that one. He has a knack of picking out an excellent wine or something stronger. He also chooses excellent boutique beers.
> 
> I think this new keyboard is a little tipsy, it is making so many typos.


Bad keyboard. Here's to you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm sure they email, and there's that group on Ravelry, but I think she's getting ready for some craft show and has a lot of sewing to do.


Bullfeathers. I don't believe it. I think they abandoned Ravelry. And judging from the (lack of) quality she has offered, it can't take much time to make.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm a retired irregular sleeper too. Ethel Mertz gets up with me and we watch the sky lighten up most mornings.

What's a ********* dawn?



EveMCooke said:


> To err is human but to forgive is divine. We forgive you any minor transgressions.
> 
> I hope you are feeling better, nothing worse than constant pain, especially neck and back pain. Pills, potions and pain killers often make it worse, you end up walking around in a dense cloud. Take plenty of naps and when your body screams "sleep and sleep now" listen to it and take forty winks. I find the forty winks is necessary; several times a day. Unless you have to go to work it does not matter if you have a highly irregular sleep pattern. I find that the pain is often less in the wee morning hours, especially the hours before the ********* dawn.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Want to shiver your timbers? Do you remember when we had to wear skirts and knee socks? Now that was cold!



Poor Purl said:


> I don't think Scotswomen wear kilts. I've seen Brigadoon a couple of times, and all I recall are long skirts.
> 
> And yes, I remember pettipants. I still have a pair I wear under a skirt if it's really cold out. Panty hose don't keep my bottom half warm enough.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm sure that goes for many of us, Evie. I have a twelve-year old son and a very busy schedule, but I find I could sleep all day and sleep all night. Who knows why?


'Maybe' you're tired? Snatch a nap whenever you can.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gerslay doesn't know....anything. IMO



Poor Purl said:


> Well, Susan, apparently Gerslay has your number, even if the rest of us don't.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> If they ever made sleeping an Olympic sport then I would be a gold medalist, thats for sure. Or should that be 'that's for sure'????
> 
> Maybe we are just reincarnated cats, you know how many hours cats sleep every day, and they have naps in between their sleeps.


That's why Ethel Mertz and I get along so well. I love cats.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Kick up your skirt and give the stalker something to see.



susanmos2000 said:


> I suppose so, Purl. Guess D & Ps resident stalker has been peeking through my windows and caught me indulging in a little soft shoe.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Besides cats, I love pajamas. I saw a lady at the grocery the other day in pj's. I was jealous.



aw9358 said:


> Now I'm crying. That's hilarious.
> 
> In answer to Eve, some days I feel I could sleep for 16 hours. I've definitely slowed down since I've been prescribed morphine. It's sometimes hard to decide which would be better - permanent slow motion or the alternative. Still, I managed to get dressed today after two days in pyjamas. Anyway, everybody please stop it now. It's starting to feel like D&P.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'd still go with "idiot savants" minus the "savants."


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Could well be, Evie. I adore cats, but somehow I can't imagine my soul residing comfortably in a placid house kitty. More likely a stealthy black panther--or perhaps? a ferocious jungle cat.


Your cat is so scary it's going to give mine a heart attack.

:!: :roll: :-(


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Like twin saphires, Evie. You're right--it's a perfect fit.
> 
> I am woman, hear me roar! (and spit and growl and whatever else it is that leopards do)


Bite, I'm guessing.
:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Your cat is so scary it's going to give mine a heart attack.
> 
> :!: :roll: :-(


Now we know why your cat is praying.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Want to shiver your timbers? Do you remember when we had to wear skirts and knee socks? Now that was cold!


Yes, I remember it well. I remember having to wear a skirt or dress to work. Were we happy when pants became acceptable.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

But she thinks she knows, and is very annoying about it.


damemary said:


> Gerslay doesn't know....anything. IMO


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Now we know why your cat is praying.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Your little sloth is probably not safe, either.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

We weren't even allowed to wear jeans or slacks until I was nearly out of high School. We did usually look quite nice - nowadays we shop near a high School (or did in Calgary) and some of the things the girls wore made my hair stand on end. It was especially the short shorts - and scanty (good word??) tops - Oh well I remember my parents not liking panty hose -- thought they were practically indecent. My mom made me wear terrible long stockings (ribbed) dark brown or dark Beige and I was mortified. I used to take them off on the way to work and borrow some bobby socks from my girlfriend whose mother was not even aware of what she wore. Those days!!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I love your snarl. Here comes my kitty.


Hmm...your fangs beat mine--by a mile! Maybe Santa will bring this sweet kitty a new set.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> We weren't even allowed to wear jeans or slacks until I was nearly out of high School. We did usually look quite nice - nowadays we shop near a high School (or did in Calgary) and some of the things the girls wore made my hair stand on end. It was especially the short shorts - and scanty (good word??) tops - Oh well I remember my parents not liking panty hose -- thought they were practically indecent. My mom made me wear terrible long stockings (ribbed) dark brown or dark Beige and I was mortified. I used to take them off on the way to work and borrow some bobby socks from my girlfriend whose mother was not even aware of what she wore. Those days!!


In my early days of school (late 70s) most girls still wore dresses--slacks were tolerated but not exactly met with smiles of approval. I didn't get my first pair of sneakers until I was about eight--jeans came even later, when I was ten or eleven.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Right back at you.
> 
> Let's just stop this foolishness. The bickering annoys others, and I find it boring. Don't you have something to say about the Supreme Court? The exploding issues around Ferguson? Pick something else.


It would be so nice to actually have a conversation about what is really happening with the marches, and the problems with the police departments where young men are being shot. Maybe if they thought about them they might have some legitimate ideas as t what to do about them, except that they blame Obama in some way --Their posts never change. Insults and bashing the PRESIDENT. I find them boring too. You would think they never even watched or read the news. Too busy coming here and convincing themselves that things happened when they didn't.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I love your snarl. Here comes my kitty.


 Are you a Siberian Tiger? Love it. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm a retired irregular sleeper too. Ethel Mertz gets up with me and we watch the sky lighten up most mornings.
> 
> What's a ********* dawn?


We Aussies call it ********** dawn  when the light is just starting to steal up over the bush, but it is not yet dawn. It is a term still used by many Australians, although the PC brigade somehow jumped on the bandwagon several years ago, and not understanding the term said it was racist. Many Aboriginals still use the term. A lot of people living in the urban areas of the bigger cities do not experience the ********** dawn. If you live away from the city lights you are more likely to experience it. It refers to the period when the sky just begins to lighten, when night starts to turn into day. It is cooler at this time of day, before the sun starts to heat everything up. Aboriginals introduced the term into everyday language. Piccaninnies were their toddlers, so ********** daylight is the infant stage of day. The term ********** was used affectionately, never offensively in my experience.

********** Dawn All original works by Marc Glasby
In the ********** dawn
when the sun has yet to rise
and the purple shades of night
are still clinging to the sky
When the chorus of the birds
comes ringing from the trees
and the waters on the lake
are first rippled by the breeze
When the hills still wear the cloak
of the colours of the night
and their tops are touched with gold
in the clear crisp morning light
In the ********** dawn
when theres magic in the air
When a brand new day is born
theres a world both rich and rare
Then a mighty orange glow
shows the sun is on its way
and the ********** dawn
quickly starts to fade away


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Want to shiver your timbers? Do you remember when we had to wear skirts and knee socks? Now that was cold!


In Tasmania they refer to the short skirts worn by school children as 'bum freezers'. Thankfully nowadays they girls are allowed to wear their trackies (track suit pants) under their skirts. Most Aussie school include a track suit as part of their uniform.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Nice try! You can feign innocence all you want in front of your friends but there are some of us who will never forget your venomous ways!


Give it a bone Gerslay. Why bother to weigh in at all? You're just annoying everyone.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't think Scotswomen wear kilts. I've seen Brigadoon a couple of times, and all I recall are long skirts.
> 
> And yes, I remember pettipants. I still have a pair I wear under a skirt if it's really cold out. Panty hose don't keep my bottom half warm enough.


I used to wear pettipants to school in the winter but we used to call them 'witches britches.'


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> We Aussies call it ********** dawn  when the light is just starting to steal up over the bush, but it is not yet dawn. It is a term still used by many Australians, although the PC brigade somehow jumped on the bandwagon several years ago, and not understanding the term said it was racist. Many Aboriginals still use the term. A lot of people living in the urban areas of the bigger cities do not experience the ********** dawn. If you live away from the city lights you are more likely to experience it. It refers to the period when the sky just begins to lighten, when night starts to turn into day. It is cooler at this time of day, before the sun starts to heat everything up. Aboriginals introduced the term into everyday language. Piccaninnies were their toddlers, so ********** daylight is the infant stage of day. The term ********** was used affectionately, never offensively in my experience.
> 
> ********** Dawn All original works by Marc Glasby
> In the ********** dawn
> ...


Just beautiful!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I used to wear pettipants to school in the winter but we used to call them 'witches britches.'


Mine never looked that that. For one thing, they were a bit wider.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Mine never looked that that. For one thing, they were a bit wider.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:

I had a hot pink pair with frills around the legs and a red pair with black ribbons threaded around the legs. It was a bit of a fad each winter. I'm glad to see they're around still. Must get a pair for the winter.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I remember it well. I remember having to wear a skirt or dress to work. Were we happy when pants became acceptable.


Skirts and knee socks. Our school uniforms were plaid pleated skirts that looked like opened umbrellas when the wind blew.Had lots of petti pants, but chose to wear shorts under my skirt instead.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> We Aussies call it ********** dawn  when the light is just starting to steal up over the bush, but it is not yet dawn. It is a term still used by many Australians, although the PC brigade somehow jumped on the bandwagon several years ago, and not understanding the term said it was racist. Many Aboriginals still use the term. A lot of people living in the urban areas of the bigger cities do not experience the ********** dawn. If you live away from the city lights you are more likely to experience it. It refers to the period when the sky just begins to lighten, when night starts to turn into day. It is cooler at this time of day, before the sun starts to heat everything up. Aboriginals introduced the term into everyday language. Piccaninnies were their toddlers, so ********** daylight is the infant stage of day. The term ********** was used affectionately, never offensively in my experience.
> 
> ********** Dawn All original works by Marc Glasby
> In the ********** dawn
> ...


That's lovely.

In the American south, little black children were called "************" (which derives from the Spanish or maybe Portuguese word for "little children," _pequeniños_). It was used derogatorily, with the children given all the stereotypical characteristics that were given to black adults.

I just did a Google search and came up with this: http://www.authentichistory.com/diversity/african/3-****/2-**********/ There's enough here to give you an idea, and it's creepily sexual at times.

However, I have met people from the Caribbeans who referred to their own grandchildren as ************ and meant it affectionately. So it depends on your location when you say it whether you'll be called racist.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's lovely.
> 
> In the American south, little black children were called "************" (which derives from the Spanish or maybe Portuguese word for "little children," _pequeniños_). It was used derogatorily, with the children given all the stereotypical characteristics that were given to black adults.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link. Awful what was acceptable 70 years ago.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> We weren't even allowed to wear jeans or slacks until I was nearly out of high School. We did usually look quite nice - nowadays we shop near a high School (or did in Calgary) and some of the things the girls wore made my hair stand on end. It was especially the short shorts - and scanty (good word??) tops - Oh well I remember my parents not liking panty hose -- thought they were practically indecent. My mom made me wear terrible long stockings (ribbed) dark brown or dark Beige and I was mortified. I used to take them off on the way to work and borrow some bobby socks from my girlfriend whose mother was not even aware of what she wore. Those days!!


My sister had to wear those long brown stockings, but by the time I came along they were white and we wore them only for special occasions. Remember those awful harness-type garter belts?? They were a cross between a garter belt and a pair of suspenders. Ugh!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Thanks for the link. Awful what was acceptable 70 years ago.


I suspect that in some parts of the country it's still acceptable.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> My sister had to wear those long brown stockings, but by the time I came along they were white and we wore them only for special occasions. Remember those awful harness-type garter belts?? They were a cross between a garter belt and a pair of suspenders. Ugh!


Aren't those considered sexy these days? She wears them:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's lovely.
> 
> In the American south, little black children were called "************" (which derives from the Spanish or maybe Portuguese word for "little children," _pequeniños_). It was used derogatorily, with the children given all the stereotypical characteristics that were given to black adults.
> 
> ...


I am amazed how long it went on.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Take a few minutes to watch Carl Sagan talk about our "Pale Blue Dot."

Moving and inspirational.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I used to wear pettipants to school in the winter but we used to call them 'witches britches.'


My daughter wore those to school. She had a bright pink pair and a lovely blue paid.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> My sister had to wear those long brown stockings, but by the time I came along they were white and we wore them only for special occasions. Remember those awful harness-type garter belts?? They were a cross between a garter belt and a pair of suspenders. Ugh!


And they dug into the back of your legs when you sat down. They were better than the old elastic garters worn around your thighs to keep your stockings up. These were said to cause varicose veins. Something we do not see so often now, but were very common in the 40s and 50s.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What about my kitty? I didn't want susan to be lonely in the jungle.



Poor Purl said:


> Your cat is so scary it's going to give mine a heart attack.
> 
> :!: :roll: :-(


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Deciding on a teen fashion depends on finding something old folks will find disturbing. It probably started with cave people.



Designer1234 said:


> We weren't even allowed to wear jeans or slacks until I was nearly out of high School. We did usually look quite nice - nowadays we shop near a high School (or did in Calgary) and some of the things the girls wore made my hair stand on end. It was especially the short shorts - and scanty (good word??) tops - Oh well I remember my parents not liking panty hose -- thought they were practically indecent. My mom made me wear terrible long stockings (ribbed) dark brown or dark Beige and I was mortified. I used to take them off on the way to work and borrow some bobby socks from my girlfriend whose mother was not even aware of what she wore. Those days!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're left with ourselves. I like it that way.



Designer1234 said:


> It would be so nice to actually have a conversation about what is really happening with the marches, and the problems with the police departments where young men are being shot. Maybe if they thought about them they might have some legitimate ideas as t what to do about them, except that they blame Obama in some way --Their posts never change. Insults and bashing the PRESIDENT. I find them boring too. You would think they never even watched or read the news. Too busy coming here and convincing themselves that things happened when they didn't.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yep. That's me. I have a regal looking one, and then the snarly one. Depends on my mood.



EveMCooke said:


> Are you a Siberian Tiger? Love it. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Eve. It's my favorite time of day. The poem is lovely.



EveMCooke said:


> We Aussies call it ********** dawn  when the light is just starting to steal up over the bush, but it is not yet dawn. It is a term still used by many Australians, although the PC brigade somehow jumped on the bandwagon several years ago, and not understanding the term said it was racist. Many Aboriginals still use the term. A lot of people living in the urban areas of the bigger cities do not experience the ********** dawn. If you live away from the city lights you are more likely to experience it. It refers to the period when the sky just begins to lighten, when night starts to turn into day. It is cooler at this time of day, before the sun starts to heat everything up. Aboriginals introduced the term into everyday language. Piccaninnies were their toddlers, so ********** daylight is the infant stage of day. The term ********** was used affectionately, never offensively in my experience.
> 
> ********** Dawn All original works by Marc Glasby
> In the ********** dawn
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Trackies as part of a uniform. Brilliant.



EveMCooke said:


> In Tasmania they refer to the short skirts worn by school children as 'bum freezers'. Thankfully nowadays they girls are allowed to wear their trackies (track suit pants) under their skirts. Most Aussie school include a track suit as part of their uniform.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The attitude is just hidden now. It hasn't vanished.



DGreen said:


> Thanks for the link. Awful what was acceptable 70 years ago.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> My sister had to wear those long brown stockings, but by the time I came along they were white and we wore them only for special occasions. Remember those awful harness-type garter belts?? They were a cross between a garter belt and a pair of suspenders. Ugh!


I LOATHED them. The heavy brown stockings were the blight of my life when I was a young teen. Also silk stockings -

One of the great inventions for women were the pantihose!
and being 'allowed to wear slacks or jeans. Life was so much better -- and no girdles with wires in that strangled your stomach - My poor mother used to have to wear a 
Corset or corselette (with bones inserted all around. they were like wearing a wire mesh imovable, tight, horrible 
girdle. Which were still uncomfortable but not as bad as the 
fabric and wire thing- a -ma -jig Mom used to wear.

Did anyone else ever use a thing-a-ma-jig?- It might be a Newfoundland saying as Dad was a Newfie.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I LOATHED them. The heavy brown stockings were the blight of my life when I was a young teen. Also silk stockings -
> 
> One of the great inventions for women were the pantihose!
> and being 'allowed to wear slacks or jeans. Life was so much better -- and no girdles with wires in that strangled your stomach - My poor mother used to have to wear a
> ...


Thing-a-ma-jig, whatch-ma-callit, ooze-a-ma-jig, ooze-a-bob, thing-a-ya-bob, thingy-bob, all perfectly good and respectable English words in this neck of the woods, in every day use.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are so creative with language down under. Thanks for the education.



EveMCooke said:


> Thing-a-ma-jig, whatch-ma-callit, ooze-a-ma-jig, ooze-a-bob, thing-a-ya-bob, thingy-bob, all perfectly good and respectable English words in this neck of the woods, in every day use.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=923jxZY2NPI&feature=player_embedded
> 
> Take a few minutes to watch Carl Sagan talk about our "Pale Blue Dot."
> 
> Moving and inspirational.


That's beautifully done. Not only are Sagan's words inspirational, but the pictures that were chosen to illustrate them are spot on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And they dug into the back of your legs when you sat down. They were better than the old elastic garters worn around your thighs to keep your stockings up. These were said to cause varicose veins. Something we do not see so often now, but were very common in the 40s and 50s.


My mother and aunts all said it was pregnancy that caused varicose veins, though they all wore stockings wound around elastic. I never have, but guess what's on my left leg.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> What about my kitty? I didn't want susan to be lonely in the jungle.


Yours is even scarier. I think I'll have to tie a kerchief around my kitten's eyes when yours comes out.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Deciding on a teen fashion depends on finding something old folks will find disturbing. It probably started with cave people.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The attitude is just hidden now. It hasn't vanished.


I think you're right.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Now it's obvious that you're lying. The picture was never circulated among us, and I should know because I discovered it. No "big yuck fest" over it even after I posted it on FF with a bunch of anti-GOP stuff.
> 
> People only asked about it when I made it my avatar for a few hours. No big yuck fest then either.
> 
> Yuck to you, too.


If that's your story then stick with it. It certainly doesn't make it true. It's the same game, nothing new here.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, Susan, apparently Gerslay has your number, even if the rest of us don't.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


No surprise there. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She certainly would like to, and their strange memories allow for it. Even though you never said what she probably has in mind, that's the only thing she'll remember about you, and will keep harping on it, but only by insinuation. No honesty there.


Do believe PP, she knows all about harping on things.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thanks. I'm loving the house info.


I'm fantasizing freely about the whole subjects of where, how and why I'll choose a place to live after my mother dies. How morbid of me, in a way, but I think it makes sense to be prepared. We live in a small apartment house, 4 units, and I've never been very fond of apartments. Then again, I may stay here because I'm super close to a shopping mall and public transportation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> If that's your story then stick with it. It certainly doesn't make it true. It's the same game, nothing new here.


It's not just my story; it's the truth. It would be up to you to prove the picture had been posted here before, and to prove there was the "yuck fest" you speak of.

But you couldn't prove either of those *because, as with most of your "facts," they are not true.*


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Do believe PP, she knows all about harping on things.


I harp on the things that have caused damage and never been righted, not even apologized for. Why wouldn't I?

Speaking of harping, please point me to the message, with the following picture, that was not posted in the past two months, but was the occasion of your so-called yuck fest over a year ago.

Edit: I'm beginning to sound like she who must never be named. So you can keep on lying; I'm not going to correct you any more. Or believe you.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> My mother and aunts all said it was pregnancy that caused varicose veins, though they all wore stockings wound around elastic. I never have, but guess what's on my left leg.


A tattoo?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> You are so creative with language down under. Thanks for the education.


We don't use all of them but do use most of them. Friends of mine in Mesa used to think we 'talked funny'. We sure did in New Zealand. Our friends used to ask me to pronounce Maori words, even when I knew what they should sound like I couldn't.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Absolutely couldn't resist this pic for a new avatar...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> A tattoo?


PP? With a tat? You think? Too funny!

(Kidding, in case someone reads literally)


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not just my story; it's the truth. It would be up to you to prove the picture had been posted here before, and to prove there was the "yuck fest" you speak of.
> 
> But you couldn't prove either of those *because, as with most of your "facts," they are not true.*


I don't have to prove anything just because you are denying what I am saying. That doesn't make it false or a lie. You weren't the first to post the picture and play the same game. It's the same old crap, just a different day.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It would be so nice to actually have a conversation about what is really happening with the marches, and the problems with the police departments where young men are being shot. Maybe if they thought about them they might have some legitimate ideas as t what to do about them, except that they blame Obama in some way --Their posts never change. Insults and bashing the PRESIDENT. I find them boring too. You would think they never even watched or read the news. Too busy coming here and convincing themselves that things happened when they didn't.


It would be nice. This is a many-layered subject. Right now I'm just kind of ticked off because there have been marches in my city two nights in a row, with all the accompanying violence and property damage. There were huge violent marches against the illegal war in Vietnam here in the 60s and they final got so bad that I moved a 1,000 miles away.

As I've said, probably too many times, I think we're seeing a new Civil Rights Movement. A lot of strides were made in the 60s, but didn't trickle far enough down the social scale to poor African-Americans.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I used to wear pettipants to school in the winter but we used to call them 'witches britches.'


Those were sold at Woolworth's while it still existed and we called them "little old lady panties". Pettipants were a bit looser. You could get undershirts to match the LOL panties. Warm, but dowdy..


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Oh, great! Our government is going to be releasing a report that details how we tortured our enemies following 911! This report includes all of the specific details. They're expecting Americans to be killed in retaliation. 
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/impending-cia-interrogation-report-creates-fear-violence/story?id=27432670

I'm horrified that our government tortured anyone! It absolutely disgusts me that they did this in our name, without our consent! Our government is unrecognizable! Before anyone bothers to tell me that the current regime does not advocate torture, just keep in mind that they're just having someone else do it for them. The world is an evil place! And our country isn't making it better, any longer!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Absolutely couldn't resist this pic for a new avatar...


SO, SO cute!!! I want that kitten!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It would be nice. This is a many-layered subject. Right now I'm just kind of ticked off because there have been marches in my city two nights in a row, with all the accompanying violence and property damage. There were huge violent marches against the illegal war in Vietnam here in the 60s and they final got so bad that I moved a 1,000 miles away.
> 
> As I've said, probably too many times, I think we're seeing a new Civil Rights Movement. A lot of strides were made in the 60s, but didn't trickle far enough down the social scale to poor African-Americans.


You could be right about a new civil rights movement. According to this article, a black militant group is planning to shoot on duty police officers.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/exclusive-nypd-warned-militant-group-plans-shoot-cops-article-1.2036616


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I don't have to prove anything just because you are denying what I am saying. That doesn't make it false or a lie. You weren't the first to post the picture and play the same game. It's the same old crap, just a different day.


Your opinion. Read the posts -- over and over I ask those who are told the truth - read the posts. You won't though because you don't care what is the truth as long as you can argue and stir.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, great! Our government is going to be releasing a report that details how we tortured our enemies following 911! This report includes all of the specific details. They're expecting Americans to be killed in retaliation.
> http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/impending-cia-interrogation-report-creates-fear-violence/story?id=27432670
> 
> I'm horrified that our government tortured anyone! It absolutely disgusts me that they did this in our name, without our consent! Our government is unrecognizable! Before anyone bothers to tell me that the current regime does not advocate torture, just keep in mind that they're just having someone else do it for them. The world is an evil place! And our country isn't making it better, any longer!


Haven't they always done that? Our government isn't much better.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

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