# Armed Police



## Mary Cardiff (Mar 18, 2012)

Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


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## annweb (Feb 23, 2012)

As you say they have discovered something serious .If of consequence it will be on the news .


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


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## minniemo (Apr 23, 2011)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


minniemo wrote

Is it anything to do with this ?
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/armed-police-deployed-senedd-part-8839988


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## Furface (May 4, 2013)

Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs.  Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


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## seamer45 (Jan 18, 2011)

My DH taught at an inner city school and I was glad the security force was armed, even with that the kids managed to get guns and knives on campus. What's even scarier is that there was a shooting at the school a few months ago, the boy survived but no one on staff was ever told the shooter had stabbed someone at his previous school,and if a student is convicted of a serious crime or on parole, the teachers can't be told because of privacy laws for minors. I'm so glad he retired.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


America has a very different demographic and we aren't very well liked in some places in the world. We are not a closed society as many other countries are. People walk over our borders every day. Enter our country and stay forever. Not many questions asked. Also, comparing the UK to America is like comparing mice to elephants. Our population is much larger. I think we'll be seeing armed protection in many more countries in the future. JMHO.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

That would be a very sad day indeed. JMHO.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> That would be a very sad day indeed. JMHO.


To whom are you replying?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


When we were in Scotland and England not one policeman we saw had a weapon. Not all places in the world feel that
guns are the answer to everything. I felt extremely safe in London and in Manchester. It is a different mindset, but with all the worries about what is going on in the world I guess it is bound to change everything. Sad indeed.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> To whom are you replying?


You re your last comment. I think we're safer here without armed police. As I said, JMHO.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> You re your last comment. I think we're safer here without armed police. As I said, JMHO.


I bet the people in Norway think differently. I'm not talking about British Citizens necessarily. Many terrorists abound and it seems they know where to strike in the hearts of people. Children, be it the mall or a school.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> That would be a very sad day indeed. JMHO.


America wasn't always this way. I remember as a kid not worrying about these things but the world has changed and not for the better in this instance.


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## joycevv (Oct 13, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joycevv said:


> I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


If the cop had a Taser. BTW the suspect was shot 4 times in the arm and that didn't stop him. Read the Federal Autopsy. Michael Brown charged the cop. Do you have the stats on cops being killed in the line of duty. Can you make the same statements about the school in CT? Or Columbine etc?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> America has a very different demographic and we aren't very well liked in some places in the world. We are not a closed society as many other countries are. People walk over our borders every day. Enter our country and stay forever. Not many questions asked. Also, comparing the UK to America is like comparing mice to elephants. Our population is much larger. I think we'll be seeing armed protection in many more countries in the future. JMHO.


It seems that you don't realize that as recently as 80 years ago, England was Head of an Empire that circled the world. 
I am a Canadian but I find the comparison between an elephant and a mouse a bit insulting. I don't know whether you meant it or not, but certainly England can be called just about anything but a mouse. Sometimes people from other parts of the world sound very superior and it doesn't go over very well. Yes, America is a world power, it seems every hundred years or so world power changes.The British Empire circled the world - sounds dramatic but it is the truth.

I agree with you however, that with the world situation the way it is more and more countries will be using arms for their Police, and things will changes.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

joycevv said:


> I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


If the police in my town were unarmed, there would probably not be anarchy here. But Chicago? Detroit? East LA? Katy bar the door!


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It seems that you don't realize that as recently as 80 years ago, England was Head of an Empire that circled the world.
> I am a Canadian but I find the comparison between an elephant and a mouse a bit insulting. I don't know whether you meant it or not, but certainly England can be called just about anything but a mouse. Sometimes people from other parts of the world sound very superior and it doesn't go over very well. Yes, America is a world power, it seems every hundred years or so world power changes.The British Empire circled the world - sounds dramatic but it is the truth.
> 
> I agree with you however, that with the world situation the way it is more and more countries will be using arms for their Police, and things will changes.


It was in reference to SIZE of population if you want to distort that fact go ahead. Maybe you should read for content.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

joycevv said:


> I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


Thank you, thank you.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Thank you, thank you.


When were they students. That makes a difference.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> When were they students. That makes a difference.


Does it? How? I'm somehow managing to have lived 58 years in this gunless hellhole. I've never actually seen a gun in my life, and I want to keep it that way. As you say, there is no comparison between our countries. Long may it continue.


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

We are on holiday in Malta. Going out the other morning we saw armed police, and a tv crew. We knew something was up. It turned out a 36 year old woman had been stabbed to death by her boyfriend. He has fled to Italy. A few years ago DH was on a business trip to Benalmadina in Spain. He witnessed a murder in the street. Sometimes I think we'd be better staying home!


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## Mary Cardiff (Mar 18, 2012)

minniemo said:


> minniemo wrote
> 
> Is it anything to do with this ?
> http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/armed-police-deployed-senedd-part-8839988


It hasn't anything to do with that,Watched the news,But seem sport, a World new is more importment,So we still don't know what happened,


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## Mary Cardiff (Mar 18, 2012)

When we arrived in Hong Kong,I was worried to see some Police men with guns,then the riots started and I was glad to see them armed,


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> It was in reference to SIZE of population if you want to distort that fact go ahead. Maybe you should read for content.


I was talking about size of population too- it takes people to circle the world and build an empire -- I am not going to argue with you.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I was talking about size of population too- it takes people to circle the world and build an empire -- I am not going to argue with you.


Good idea.


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## ute4kp (Nov 6, 2012)

joycevv said:


> I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


Very simplistic. Doesn't give the background of what the troublemakers were doing. So easy to be an armchair know it all.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

ute4kp said:


> Very simplistic. Doesn't give the background of what the troublemakers were doing. So easy to be an armchair know it all.


I'm not sure what you're referring to with that remark. Which troublemakers? The "armchair know it all" comment is gratuitously nasty in any context, though.


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## kiwiannie (Jul 30, 2011)

Something must have brought them to your neck of the woods.i dear say you will find out what it was all about.


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## Barn-dweller (Nov 12, 2013)

Cardiff police have being doing some serious crime raids lately so it might have something to do with this. Which part of Cardiff are you in, I was brought up in Roath.


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## Lal (Aug 18, 2013)

It's not the weapons ---It's the people using them!!!


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## Knitter forever (Dec 11, 2011)

Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could live with everyone,and the police have no weapons. So someone wants your handbag,or is holding you in a choke hold,and the police have a bull club and say drop that gun,and let her go,some joke heh,then what ,dream on,times have changed big time. Wake up America.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

The number of dangerous people in a country are the best determinate of whether a country needs armed policemen. In the US, we have just recently loosened laws that previous gave our courts authority to expel dangerous people. It is a whimsical system now instead of a lawyerly way of removal. 

We aren't an island like the UK and many portions are heavily populated. Unfortunately, the populated areas are where criminals go to hide or to commit crimes and then hide. I think both the UK and the U.S. have many more problems now due to a burgeoning immigrant population than they did 20 or 30 years ago. 

If the immigrants experienced different cultural expectations and legal systems in their prior countries, and they expect to reproduce that culture and systems in their new country, trouble will occur. If a new government just pretends the problems aren't happening, the trouble will grow. Crime is growing and authorities are turning a blind eye to it. Everyone should be thankful who lives in a country with law protection. Or, they will become their own law protection out of necessity.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Furface said:


> Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?


Absolutely, but they're never there when you need them here in Australia and always there when you don't want them!


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## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> America wasn't always this way. I remember as a kid not worrying about these things but the world has changed and not for the better in this instance.


We grew up in a much more innocent time. At least many of us did. I know there were problems back then as well but when I graduated from high school in 1951 I was just 17 and the worst thing I remember teachers saying was, "No running in the halls" or "put that gum away."

We danced the lindy in the hall outside the lunchroom when we finished our lunch, there were no gangs nor guns, we walked halfway across town to a movie, talking all the way. The big deal was that on Friday we could wear slacks to school. And sometimes we wore our cardigan sweaters backward with all the buttons buttoned. Oh, how cool we looked. And our winter coats were very long, the closer to the ground they were the cooler we were.

I'm glad I'm not a teenager today. I am even more glad I am not raising a teenager today.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> The number of dangerous people in a country are the best determinate of whether a country needs armed policemen. In the US, we have just recently loosened laws that previous gave our courts authority to expel dangerous people. It is a whimsical system now instead of a lawyerly way of removal.
> 
> We aren't an island like the UK and many portions are heavily populated. Unfortunately, the populated areas are where criminals go to hide or to commit crimes and then hide. I think both the UK and the U.S. have many more problems now due to a burgeoning immigrant population than they did 20 or 30 years ago.
> 
> If the immigrants experienced different cultural expectations and legal systems in their prior countries, and they expect to reproduce that culture and systems in their new country, trouble will occur. If a new government just pretends the problems aren't happening, the trouble will grow. Crime is growing and authorities are turning a blind eye to it. Everyone should be thankful who lives in a country with law protection. Or, they will become their own law protection out of necessity.


Yeah, blame the immigrants, that's right. It's their fault there's so much crime. Blech.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> America wasn't always this way. I remember as a kid not worrying about these things but the world has changed and not for the better in this instance.


I agree. It's not only America that's changed, but the world. Here in Australia our police are armed and I, for one, am glad. Since the foiled terror plots here and our terror rating changed to high, along with the Sydney siege, we've seen armed police patrolling our shopping centres on several occasions. Unfortunately, it's the times we live in.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> The number of dangerous people in a country are the best determinate of whether a country needs armed policemen. In the US, we have just recently loosened laws that previous gave our courts authority to expel dangerous people. It is a whimsical system now instead of a lawyerly way of removal.
> 
> We aren't an island like the UK and many portions are heavily populated. Unfortunately, the populated areas are where criminals go to hide or to commit crimes and then hide. I think both the UK and the U.S. have many more problems now due to a burgeoning immigrant population than they did 20 or 30 years ago.
> 
> If the immigrants experienced different cultural expectations and legal systems in their prior countries, and they expect to reproduce that culture and systems in their new country, trouble will occur. If a new government just pretends the problems aren't happening, the trouble will grow. Crime is growing and authorities are turning a blind eye to it. Everyone should be thankful who lives in a country with law protection. Or, they will become their own law protection out of necessity.


This link might help you understand that what your saying is 'dishonest intelligence.'

http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0


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## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

It's not strictly true that UK police are not armed. I live in Northern Ireland (part of the UK) and our police have always been armed. We suffered many years of violence from terrorists on both sides, so we need our police to be armed.


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## Scruffy's Mum (Feb 20, 2013)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


Have to reply to this - though I do agree with you. I was walking Casey round the park when a police car came up. He opened the window and said "Do you mind if I pet your dog?" Of course Casey was delighted, he loves everyone (had it been Scruffy, I would have had to say "No", he's very shy and very protective of me, which is why I walk them separately.) Great PR, there's been a couple of incidents in Greenville, had a nice conversation and I told him how much I appreciate all they do. The world seems to be getting more dangerous every day, I'm glad there are still police out there that care.


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## britgirl (Sep 28, 2011)

To compare UK to America like comparing mice to an elephant is a ridiculous comparison. US is maybe seven times the size of UK, certainly nothing like the relationship in size between elephant and mice. That was a very insulting comment to make. Moreover, bigger is not necessarily better. What is good for one society may not necessarily be good for another. 
Sue


WindingRoad said:


> America has a very different demographic and we aren't very well liked in some places in the world. We are not a closed society as many other countries are. People walk over our borders every day. Enter our country and stay forever. Not many questions asked. Also, comparing the UK to America is like comparing mice to elephants. Our population is much larger. I think we'll be seeing armed protection in many more countries in the future. JMHO.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yeah, blame the immigrants, that's right. It's their fault there's so much crime. Blech.


25% of violent crime in the US is committed by illegals who have been deported at least once. So, I'd say illegal immigration is a problem. That isn't the UK's problem, however. Their problem is willingly embracing legal immigration to the point that cultural clashes are occurring. Immigrants are what grew America. When assimilation occurs, it is a positive thing. When cultures refuse to assimilate, the welcoming country is changed forever and violence will occur.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The DOJ is investigating the Ferguson PD so I'd be careful relying on Autopsy or other reports for the time being.


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## saz (Oct 2, 2012)

given all the gun crime in America I would rather be a mouse than an elephant. If everyone didn't walk around with guns folks wouldn't get shot like it means nothing. Its all a matter of perspective.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes indeed. You always claim the last word and you are not open to any other ideas. Have a good day.



WindingRoad said:


> Good idea.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> The number of dangerous people in a country are the best determinate of whether a country needs armed policemen. In the US, we have just recently loosened laws that previous gave our courts authority to expel dangerous people. It is a whimsical system now instead of a lawyerly way of removal.
> 
> We aren't an island like the UK and many portions are heavily populated. Unfortunately, the populated areas are where criminals go to hide or to commit crimes and then hide. I think both the UK and the U.S. have many more problems now due to a burgeoning immigrant population than they did 20 or 30 years ago.
> 
> If the immigrants experienced different cultural expectations and legal systems in their prior countries, and they expect to reproduce that culture and systems in their new country, trouble will occur. If a new government just pretends the problems aren't happening, the trouble will grow. Crime is growing and authorities are turning a blind eye to it. Everyone should be thankful who lives in a country with law protection. Or, they will become their own law protection out of necessity.


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: Truth in advertising in the avatar.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

saz said:


> given all the gun crime in America I would rather be a mouse than an elephant. If everyone didn't walk around with guns folks wouldn't get shot like it means nothing. Its all a matter of perspective.


Actually, there is less gun crime in cities where citizens are armed. It is the cities with gun restrictions that have high crime rates. Criminals don't abide by the anti-gun laws. That leaves criminals in charge and not enough armed police to be everywhere protecting the unarmed citizens.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I know. I'm worried about teen aged grands. The younger ones are prepared for anything. I do regret not leaving them a cleaner earth and more non-extinct species.



Ann DeGray said:


> We grew up in a much more innocent time. At least many of us did. I know there were problems back then as well but when I graduated from high school in 1951 I was just 17 and the worst thing I remember teachers saying was, "No running in the halls" or "put that gum away."
> 
> We danced the lindy in the hall outside the lunchroom when we finished our lunch, there were no gangs nor guns, we walked halfway across town to a movie, talking all the way. The big deal was that on Friday we could wear slacks to school. And sometimes we wore our cardigan sweaters backward with all the buttons buttoned. Oh, how cool we looked. And our winter coats were very long, the closer to the ground they were the cooler we were.
> 
> I'm glad I'm not a teenager today. I am even more glad I am not raising a teenager today.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yeah, blame the immigrants, that's right. It's their fault there's so much crime. Blech.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mind wide shut.



Wombatnomore said:


> This link might help you understand that what your saying is 'dishonest intelligence.'
> 
> http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

The trolls are out today. Isn't it funny how the attack dogs operate? They really just want to shut down discussion by attacking others personally.


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## flitri (Jun 13, 2011)

Something definitely going on if they have the dogs and helicopters out. Our Police are fully armed here in Australia but I know that the Police in the UK aren't armed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not true at all, and I think you know it. Everyone is free to express their opinions here, but those that express their thoughts without sources are suspicious....some may call them trolls.

IMHO blaming immigrants for our ills and urging guns on everyone shows someone who revels in the problems without offering solutions. I admit I find this distasteful.



Knit crazy said:


> The trolls are out today. Isn't it funny how the attack dogs operate? They really just want to shut down discussion by attacking others personally.


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## wokmsweeney (Nov 7, 2014)

Unfortunately, most police departments can't afford traders. In Tulsa the police foundation raised 850K for traders for the officers. Crime and violence happen everywhere. The UK has been fortunate in having a low crime rate. I fear that time is over.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Yes indeed. You always claim the last word and you are not open to any other ideas. Have a good day.


And yet you post the exact same argument I did. How clever of you.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

damemary said:


> Not true at all, and I think you know it. Everyone is free to express their opinions here, but those that express their thoughts without sources are suspicious....some may call them trolls.
> 
> IMHO blaming immigrants for our ills and urging guns on everyone shows someone who revels in the problems without offering solutions. I admit I find this distasteful.


And what is your solution?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> That would be a very sad day indeed. JMHO.


So you side with the criminals. They can have guns, homemade bombs, knives, etc and you'll choose to sit back and ask them not to use them?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


I bet CT wished there had been an armed policeman in there school on one December day.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> You re your last comment. I think we're safer here without armed police. As I said, JMHO.


You may be today. What about tomorrow. Proactive here.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Does it? How? I'm somehow managing to have lived 58 years in this gunless hellhole. I've never actually seen a gun in my life, and I want to keep it that way. As you say, there is no comparison between our countries. Long may it continue.


Long is a relative word. You have heard of ISIS haven't you. Didn't someone bomb the London Tube some years ago.


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## norma goodrich (Dec 31, 2013)

a lot of gangs in California with arms ready to kills the Polices, the Polices need to protected themselves and uses their arms if it is need...my respect to them....to many die when protect others...


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

damemary said:


> Not true at all, and I think you know it. Everyone is free to express their opinions here, but those that express their thoughts without sources are suspicious....some may call them trolls.
> 
> IMHO blaming immigrants for our ills and urging guns on everyone shows someone who revels in the problems without offering solutions. I admit I find this distasteful.


You are a troll if you personally attack someone on this thread, and you know it Damemary. You don't like me because I am logical, and you flail around unable to voice an opinion. Your leftist buddy, Wombatnomoree, contacted you to begin the attack. Bullying should not be allowed on KP, but I have learned after a couple years of dealing with you that this is your mode of operation. I know you are a low information voter in the US, who believes anything the Obama administration tells you. Think about it. Obama is promoting illegal immigration. The link you provided is justification for what he is doing.

If you had merely voiced your view on guns or crime or it's causes no one would have cared, and you could claim innocence. But, that is not how you operate, is it?


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## mangosalsa (Nov 10, 2011)

seamer45 said:


> My DH taught at an inner city school and I was glad the security force was armed, even with that the kids managed to get guns and knives on campus. What's even scarier is that there was a shooting at the school a few months ago, the boy survived but no one on staff was ever told the shooter had stabbed someone at his previous school,and if a student is convicted of a serious crime or on parole, the teachers can't be told because of privacy laws for minors. I'm so glad he retired.


when I started school seventy years ago things like this never and I mean never happened. We went to school for an education and got a good one. No distractions and the teachers and parents worked together. As students we wanted to do well and make our parents proud of us. What on earth has changed?


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## wokmsweeney (Nov 7, 2014)

OK, PEOPLE. SOME CALM HERE. WE ALL HAVE OUR BELIEFS HERE. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT. THE GREAT THING IS THAT WE CAN EXPRESS THEM WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRISALS. PERSONALLY I WISH WE DIDN'T NEED SOME MANY GUNS. BUT THAT ISN'T THE CASE HERE IN THE USA WE ARE HAVING HOME INVASIONS HERE AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO LOAD AND FIRE MY HUSBANDS SHOTGUN.


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## mjs (Mar 3, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


I went to England just after the tube bombing. I felt very comfortable seeing a lot of police presence. I also appreciated the politeness of people I encountered.


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## wokmsweeney (Nov 7, 2014)

Me to, steamer45. Grew up in small town in Me Oklahoma. Never locked our doors at night. Walked to downtown and friends homes and never worried. Times have changed. Too bad.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

mangosalsa said:


> when I started school seventy years ago things like this never and I mean never happened. We went to school for an education and got a good one. No distractions and the teachers and parents worked together. As students we wanted to do well and make our parents proud of us. What on earth has changed?


Drugs and societal breakdown. 70 years ago, families were more intact (Mom and Dad married, churchgoing, and law abiding). Then, we had the sexual revolution in the 1970's, marriage became more and more irrelevant, and people started worshiping themselves instead of God. People turned to drugs to dull the pain of societal breakdown. It's been a downward spiral since then.

A professor I had 25-30 years ago in attaining my certification to teach told us that in 1952, when she started teaching, she saw almost no children with ADD and ADHD. Her research showed a correlation to drug proliferation. Babies in utero are being bombarded with illegal drugs as well as legal ones, like alcohol and cigarettes. Plus, our food is now chemically altered.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

wokmsweeney said:


> OK, PEOPLE. SOME CALM HERE. WE ALL HAVE OUR BELIEFS HERE. THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT. THE GREAT THING IS THAT WE CAN EXPRESS THEM WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRISALS. PERSONALLY I WISH WE DIDN'T NEED SOME MANY GUNS. BUT THAT ISN'T THE CASE HERE IN THE USA WE ARE HAVING HOME INVASIONS HERE AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO LOAD AND FIRE MY HUSBANDS SHOTGUN.


Why are you yelling? I think maybe it's you who needs to be calm. Just a thought.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mangosalsa said:


> when I started school seventy years ago things like this never and I mean never happened. We went to school for an education and got a good one. No distractions and the teachers and parents worked together. As students we wanted to do well and make our parents proud of us. What on earth has changed?


Too many things to even list.


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## grandmaof7 (Feb 6, 2011)

They are looking for a criminal, keep the doors locked and warn your neighbors.


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## dgid (Feb 3, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> The trolls are out today. Isn't it funny how the attack dogs operate? They really just want to shut down discussion by attacking others personally.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm zipping my lip, but the mind is going crazy! :roll:


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> Too many things to even list.


I wonder if it will just keep getting worse, or will we find some sort of solution to the problems society faces? Kind of glad I'm 3/4 dead!


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## dgid (Feb 3, 2014)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


Mary, I just want to say to you, I'm praying that you and your family and neighbors are ok. Also praying that whatever the problem is, it will be solved soon. Blessings and love, Diane


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> I wonder if it will just keep getting worse, or will we find some sort of solution to the problems society faces? Kind of glad I'm 3/4 dead!


Evil isn't conquered easily.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

dgid said:


> Mary, I just want to say to you, I'm praying that you and your family and neighbors are ok. Also praying that whatever the problem is, it will be solved soon. Blessings and love, Diane


I agree. Something is going on when you see police converging. Keep your head down Mary. They will sort this out in due time. Lock your doors and knit. I will pray that you are OK and this disturbance ends soon.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> Evil isn't conquered easily.


No it isn't. I have to admit, I thought Australia was sort of immune to terror threats, etc, but the last few months have certainly shown that it can strike anywhere. There have been a few plots foiled by the feds, thank goodness, but it's an uneasy fact of life now.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


Yes, it is one now. Are you aware that local police departments are buying military equipment from the army and using it for local purposes against the public!!

The UK is beginning to militarize as are all the countries. This is being pushed actively, by various govt agencies and large military/industrial equipment providers world wide. The Charlie incident in France last Fall is a case in point. In the media the govt would claim no restrictions to be placed on the civil liberties, but in fact the opposite is happening with growing laws of repression and increasing militarization.

Don't have any info on the situation in Wales in particular, but my understanding of the tendencies being pushed in the world makes me very suspicious.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> No it isn't. I have to admit, I thought Australia was sort of immune to terror threats, etc, but the last few months have certainly shown that it can strike anywhere. There have been a few plots foiled by the feds, thank goodness, but it's an uneasy fact of life now.


Sydney?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> Yes, it is one now. Are you aware that local police departments are buying military equipment from the army and using it for local purposes against the public!!
> 
> The UK is beginning to militarize as are all the countries. This is being pushed actively, by various govt agencies and large military/industrial equipment providers world wide. The Charlie incident in France last Fall is a case in point. In the media the govt would claim no restrictions to be placed on the civil liberties, but in fact the opposite is happening with growing laws of repression and increasing militarization.
> 
> Don't have any info on the situation in Wales in particular, but my understanding of the tendencies being pushed in the world makes me very suspicious.


And that is one reason Americans created the Second Amendment early on. And many continue to remind others of the facts.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Drugs and societal breakdown. 70 years ago, families were more intact (Mom and Dad married, churchgoing, and law abiding). Then, we had the sexual revolution in the 1970's, marriage became more and more irrelevant, and people started worshiping themselves instead of God. People turned to drugs to dull the pain of societal breakdown. It's been a downward spiral since then.
> 
> A professor I had 25-30 years ago in attaining my certification to teach told us that in 1952, when she started teaching, she saw almost no children with ADD and ADHD. Her research showed a correlation to drug proliferation. Babies in utero are being bombarded with illegal drugs as well as legal ones, like alcohol and cigarettes. Plus, our food is now chemically altered.


I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.

Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> Sydney?


I live in Melbourne, but there have been terror plots in both cities.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> I live in Melbourne, but there have been terror plots in both cities.


I hadn't heard about any in Melbourne.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


Did you bother to read my other post. Too many to list as causes of these issues? I'm thinking not. I also have degrees. And?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


To whom are you referring as having a teaching degree? You seem to be under the assumption that I believe the propaganda machine. Remember the definition of ass u me.


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## BARBIE-s (Sep 15, 2014)

Mary C-wishing you all the best. My granddaughters are amazed that your police officers are NOT armed. They have asked multiple times-WHY NOT??? Well because your land has less crimes I would guess! Respect for fellow citizens another reason! Love London area BTW--traveled there with my sisters a while back and had such a good time.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> I hadn't heard about any in Melbourne.


The closest to coming to fruition was a young man who went to a police station and attacked them just outside the door. He stabbed one quite badly, and injured the other one, before being shot. Apparently he'd made a video quoting ISIS and had planned to behead them.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> The closest to coming to fruition was a young man who went to a police station and attacked them just outside the door. He stabbed one quite badly, and injured the other one, before being shot. Apparently he'd made a video quoting ISIS and had planned to behead them.


Yikes. Too bad it's come to this. Hard to say what it could be. Economic, family, religion, mental illness, fear, etc. Who knows and more importantly who has the answers. IDK.


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## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


Totally agree.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> To whom are you referring as having a teaching degree? You seem to be under the assumption that I believe the propaganda machine. Remember the definition of ass u me.


Oh she wants all police to give up their weapons Winding Road.

You know like Hilter did in Germany . Seems it did not work out for the people there. Those who were caught with weapons paid dearly, and I don't mean in a nice way , it was called death back then. Now they call it a police state here. Lets just get rid of those pest meaning police and those weapons(not). It is better to let the criminal's have control then police. We can just talk those gun controlling criminal's into not doing what they intend to do. Like harm us kill us. Well we just have to talk to them that is the answer. I am so sure they will listen don't you? :roll:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Oh she wants all police to give up their weapons Winding Road.
> 
> You know like Hilter did in Germany . Seems it did not work out for the people there. Those who were caught with weapons paid dearly, and I don't mean in a nice way , it was called death back then. Now they call it a police state here. Lets just get rid of those pest meaning police and those weapons(not). It is better to let the criminal's have control then police. We can just talk those gun controlling criminal's into not doing what they intend to do. Like harm us kill us. Well we just have to talk to them that is the answer. I am so sure they will listen don't you? :roll:


Yes, if we advocate for guns we are belittled. Criminals are called criminals because they don't follow the laws. Hard concept for some to wrap their minds around.


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## Aunty M (Jul 7, 2014)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD.


I'm not by any means an expert at anything, and don't want to anger anyone, but just thought you may find this interesting also. The school where my grand-niece goes has a number of ADD/ADHD kids (their diagnosis) and the thing they said every one had in common, was drug-taking fathers. They may also have other things in common, but that's all I was told. As I said, I just posted it as it may interest you to know that they look at that here, too.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

Oh Winding Road

How about this for an idea. person who want to control police and do not want them near them.

Maybe police could have a sign up list,those who want all weapons gone and police not to control them . They could just have police not interfere in their lives. In other words no matter what happens police do not have to response and those said people then those who don't need to be protected can just talk to those Criminals.
thus they would not have to worry about police and free police up to help those who want them to protect their lives.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> And where did I state these so-called facts. You have me confused with someone else. Maybe you should be more careful....


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## Bebekka (Jun 4, 2011)

I think it's the state of the US and other countries. Our governments have militarized themselves and instead of "to protect and to serve", they view us, the citizens, as the enemy. In the US in the "old days, only talking 10 years ago before the Iraq War, police would walk the neighborhoods knowing the people and businesses who were there. Now, they shoot first and don't even ask questions -- and then get off scott free murdering unarmed citizens. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and it's one officer involved shooting after another, and the victims are unarmed, and not acting irrationally.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


You are spouting the liberal rhetoric found in most universities, where professors are overwhelming liberals living in an ivory tower world without knowledge of how the world really works. You could use some critical thinking skills.

You are trying to change the topic, crime, into McCarthyism, which ended in the 1950's. You mention inflation, which the U.S. is about to experience but hasn't yet. With interest rates being controlled by our government and oil costs sinking due to increased private production since Obama took office, inflation has been stagnate. Now, investment in U.S. businesses rises because investment in socialist countries diminishes, and we will see inflation rising according to economists. Ask yourself, do you want to be controlled by government, which picks winners and losers? Or, do you want the ability to invest and grow your wealth through your choice? You blame companies for controlling g people. You can always take another job. Up and comers do it regularly, and IBM hasn't controlled much since the 60"s. Now it's Apple, a creative company.

Capitalism is the only force in history that has produced "real" employment and growth. Communism failed. Socialism is also a loser and countries implementing socialist policies are going bankrupt. A socialist in our White House and his policies have made more people dependent on government for subsistence level jobs, paying less than they could have earned under capitalism. Thank God Obama has not been successful in implementing true socialism.

Only investments and education have allowed people to grow their bottom line. If the pie is hampered by non-growth, there isn't much to spread around to those without education and personal investments. Under Obama, the rich are richer because they have investments, and the poor are equally sinking and powerless. Money has always meant power. But, that's not what socialism promotes. Socialism promotes equal suffering.

I know you think businesses are the cause of societal problems. They aren't. They are the cure for those who participate in the economy.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> To whom are you referring as having a teaching degree? You seem to be under the assumption that I believe the propaganda machine. Remember the definition of ass u me.


I was answering Knitcrazy if you noticed. My issue is when people try to throw around their alphabet soup as if it makes them special in some way. Personally I am not impressed with people's degrees because it has little to do with what they know about reality. It is more important to me what people's experiences have been about, what they have learned from them, and who they get their information from. I am more concerned with what values and ethics people try to ascribe. And lastly, whether they are open to hearing about differences.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are spouting the liberal rhetoric found in most universities, where professors are overwhelming liberals living in an ivory tower world without knowledge of how the world really works. You could use some critical thinking skills.
> 
> You are trying to change the topic, crime, into McCarthyism, which ended in the 1950's. You mention inflation, which the U.S. is about to experience but hasn't yet. With interest rates being controlled by our government and oil costs sinking due to increased private production since Obama took office, inflation has been stagnate. Now, investment in U.S. businesses rises because investment in socialist countries diminishes, and we will see inflation rising according to economists. Ask yourself, do you want to be controlled by government, which picks winners and losers? Or, do you want the ability to invest and grow your wealth through your choice? You blame companies for controlling g people. You can always take another job. Up and comers do it regularly, and IBM hasn't controlled much since the 60"s. Now it's Apple, a creative company.
> 
> ...


So you sport the neo-conservative/Tea Party mantra which is not based on fact--never was and never will be. Adam Smith, the big proponent of Capitalism, even noted that without very strong gov't controls, it would do exactly what it has done--create a divided society with wealth at the top and poverty spread around.

You know, my best teachers were those who role modeled cynicism. They taught that it was okay to question the mainstream mantra and to question the marketing propaganda and how it worked.

There is nothing true about what you say. Of course you begin your little rant with name calling. That to me is the first sign that I am not dealing with anything rational. If this is how you argue your point, then I would say your Cognitive Dissonance has been struck and you can only spout from an emotional and blind place.

I don't want to spend my time with your nonsense as you have no respect for anyone not in your camp. And to call Obama a Socialist shows your utter ignorance and contempt for people who are different. BTW, unless you are of the wealthy corporate class, your education was a publicly funded one which by your standards was socialist.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

tamarque said:


> So you sport the neo-conservative/Tea Party mantra which is not based on fact--never was and never will be. Adam Smith, the big proponent of Capitalism, even noted that without very strong gov't controls, it would do exactly what it has done--create a divided society with wealth at the top and poverty spread around.
> 
> You know, my best teachers were those who role modeled cynicism. They taught that it was okay to question the mainstream mantra and to question the marketing propaganda and how it worked.
> 
> ...


More personal attacks. How predictable! You are the second string for your buddies, Wombatnomore and Damemary, I guess.

. Why don't you explain what caused the Somalian take a hatchet to a soldier in London?

. Why don't you explain why terrorists killed Charlie Hebdo in a newspaper office and others kill Jewish Parisians in a deli?

. Why don't you explain why Michael Brown robbed a convenience store, aggressively attacked the owner, and charged a policemen?

. More importantly, why don't you explain why many in the neighborhood colluded with each other and lied to a Grand Jury and the only truthful accounts came from people, who didn't know each other and were afraid of retribution from the community, but wanted the truth to be known?

. Why don't you tell us why an illegal alien shot two policemen in LA, when they were doing a traffic stop?

Crime is the issue. It has nothing to do with McCarthyisn, inflation or corporate interests in the world. If they were factors, which they aren't, they wouldn't be excuses for lawlessness. There is no excuse for lawlessness.


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## Alicatt (Aug 24, 2014)

USA's micro and macro rule is through force - government is fascist and citizens are not free. If a police approaches you in the USA, respond immediately with your hands up or You Will Be Shot.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Bebekka said:


> I think it's the state of the US and other countries. Our governments have militarized themselves and instead of "to protect and to serve", they view us, the citizens, as the enemy. In the US in the "old days, only talking 10 years ago before the Iraq War, police would walk the neighborhoods knowing the people and businesses who were there. Now, they shoot first and don't even ask questions -- and then get off scott free murdering unarmed citizens. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and it's one officer involved shooting after another, and the victims are unarmed, and not acting irrationally.


So you are saying the police are just shooting anyone walking down the street for no reason?


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## mangosalsa (Nov 10, 2011)

I think this has become an interesting exchange of ideas covering many issues......but why is everyone so angry?


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## Alicatt (Aug 24, 2014)

In my experience, Perhaps it has happened, especially if:
1.You are a person of color.
2. You do not respond immediately to their presence deferentially.
3. You drive an older model vehicle and/or have bumper stickers on your vehicle.
5. You are wearing certain colored clothing.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Bebekka said:


> I think it's the state of the US and other countries. Our governments have militarized themselves and instead of "to protect and to serve", they view us, the citizens, as the enemy. In the US in the "old days, only talking 10 years ago before the Iraq War, police would walk the neighborhoods knowing the people and businesses who were there. Now, they shoot first and don't even ask questions -- and then get off scott free murdering unarmed citizens. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and it's one officer involved shooting after another, and the victims are unarmed, and not acting irrationally.


Did you miss the era of the Wild West in your education? Did you know that one brother killed another in the bible?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mangosalsa said:


> I think this has become an interesting exchange of ideas covering many issues......but why is everyone so angry?


Can you tell me which one's are angry and how you arrived at that conclusion without ever hearing one of our voices?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> More personal attacks. How predictable! You are the second string for your buddies, Wombatnomore and Damemary, I guess.
> 
> . Why don't you explain what caused the Somalian take a hatchet to a soldier in London?
> 
> ...


She's said on another thread she's not gonna discuss this with us anymore. As I've said when the going gets tough the tough get going, only to cry about it later. The possé is alive and well it seems.


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## mangosalsa (Nov 10, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Can you tell me which one's are angry and how you arrived at that conclusion without ever hearing one of our voices?


I consider your response not only angry but also aggresive.
And I don't need to hear your voice or anyone elses to determine that. Respect one anothers opinions you may
learn something. Be kind and gentle in your response and
set a good example. We live in a complex world and we
are all doing the best we can.

I will not respond to any further comments.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

mangosalsa said:


> I consider your response not only angry but also aggresive.
> And I don't need to hear your voice or anyone elses to determine that. Respect one anothers opinions you may
> learn something. Be kind and gentle in your response and
> set a good example. We live in a complex world and we
> ...


Suit yourself. I consider your response aggressive, or do I have that right in your mind? Who's opinion have I not respected. I rarely comment on others opinions. I make mine and leave it at that.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

Bebekka said:


> I think it's the state of the US and other countries. Our governments have militarized themselves and instead of "to protect and to serve", they view us, the citizens, as the enemy. In the US in the "old days, only talking 10 years ago before the Iraq War, police would walk the neighborhoods knowing the people and businesses who were there. Now, they shoot first and don't even ask questions -- and then get off scott free murdering unarmed citizens. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and it's one officer involved shooting after another, and the victims are unarmed, and not acting irrationally.


I agee that our government is more likely in 2015 than in 2009 to disrespect the rights of citizens or the constitution they are sworn to protect. I think the arms the police carry are meant to equalize the threat of violence from criminals. Police need greater force weapons than criminals. If fewer citizens resorted to weapons, I think the police would feel less need to be aggressive. Police hope to deter criminals before weapons are used with their attitudes and the threat that they could use the weapons. The idea that the police get off scot-free is very rare. More likely now, criminals do not pay for their crimes. Look at Fergusson. That officerost his reputation and livihood because some members of the citizenry lied and Al Sharpton lied to stir things up. I wonder what the government gained from fomenting that untruth? Maybe more power over the police? Probably.

When citizens resort to violence to be heard, the police need to protect themselves, and they need weapons equal to those the criminals use. If citizens respected the law, stopped when ordered to, and showed their hands instead of reaching into a car or their coats, police shouldn't need their arms. But, that's wishful thinking. Crime is growing, not shrinking. A good example is the young man, who shot two policemen last week in Fergusson. He had a flimsy excuse, but there is no excuse. He assaulted two policemen and will be tried for that. Thank goodness he was a bad shot.


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## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

You and I have had our points of agreement and disagreement in various discussions but I don't recall name calling or insults being thrown--hope my memory serves.

Knit crazy is throwing out a lot of stuff as if there is some proof to her positions. From my point of view, experience, history study, and work on grass roots levels, there is nothing of value in her rants. In my book, in order to make judgements of value, you need to able to see the big picture and perform meaningful analysis. And that doesn't mean twisting information to where you want it, or just plain denying it.

I will agree with Allcat totally and would add a ream of examples to her short list. Here a few thoughts for the open minded:

First, the history of policing in the US was an outgrowth of the slave posses of the South. Those posses became institutionalized into police forces. The idea of them was to protect the property of the ruling elite. They never were formed to protect the public and they still don't. Depending on how close you are to ruling elite you may get some protective services particularly if it entails your property.

Thus, Fergusson can only be understood from this point of view where the contradiction between the needs of the white elite completely submerge the safety of the poor and people of color. 

And Michael Brown did not rob a convenient store as per the store's owner! But you feel so much better believing a racist media that would support such lie because that would justify the police assassinating a man with his hands up in surrender.

Racism is the core of the conflict with classism thrown into the mix. 

Charlie Hebdo? If you paid any attention to what other people in the world report about the situation, you would at the very least reserve your judgement as to who did the attacking and why? 

Further, how can you view that incident without looking at and understanding the militaristic, anti-democratic tendency of the Western so-called democratic states? 

And I know this will make some cringe as their belief system and comfort zone are shaken, but False Flags are real and used by govts every day. How can you not see the fallacies of the reporting when the very videos taken by the police show the alleged terrorist handcuffed, thrown in front of the camera and assassinated? Then one needs to really pay attention to what countries are doing, not what they put out as mass media propaganda. France says no repression of civil liberties but then raises the bar on freedom of speech and movement.

Further, racism in France against Muslims if extraordinarily high and the govt is totally complicit in its promotion. So even if Hebdo was not a false flag, it has to be viewed within the context of the racism and white skin privilege of the country.

Crime: Poverty causes crime--not race. Repression causes crime--as people react to being mistreated.

the Somalian man with a hatchet? Don't know that case so won't speak to it directly but will say that any violent incident needs understanding in real terms, not Fox 5 lies and propaganda. Of course if you like your news written by the military as independent journalism, enjoy the ignorance. This is not name calling--just a description of your lack of knowledge.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

tamarque said:


> You and I have had our points of agreement and disagreement in various discussions but I don't recall name calling or insults being thrown--hope my memory serves.
> 
> Knit crazy is throwing out a lot of stuff as if there is some proof to her positions. From my point of view, experience, history study, and work on grass roots levels, there is nothing of value in her rants. In my book, in order to make judgements of value, you need to able to see the big picture and perform meaningful analysis. And that doesn't mean twisting information to where you want it, or just plain denying it.
> 
> ...


I guess you forgot about the ARMED BRITISH SOLDIERS in Boston?

Then your second premise much be rich people never commit crimes.

I've got ocean front property in Arizona cheap if anyone believes your ________ fill in the blank.


----------



## SaxonLady (Jun 9, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


Do you really think Britain is anarchic?


----------



## BlueJay21 (Jan 4, 2013)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


I am sure, Mary Cardiff, that you did not expect to get 8 pages of reply to your observation. How people can go on and on and on. I just hope that the police incident was not something really bad. I, for one, think it is great that British police as still not armed in this day and age.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

tamarque said:


> You and I have had our points of agreement and disagreement in various discussions but I don't recall name calling or insults being thrown--hope my memory serves.
> 
> Knit crazy is throwing out a lot of stuff as if there is some proof to her positions. From my point of view, experience, history study, and work on grass roots levels, there is nothing of value in her rants. In my book, in order to make judgements of value, you need to able to see the big picture and perform meaningful analysis. And that doesn't mean twisting information to where you want it, or just plain denying it.
> 
> ...


Your bias is now exposed for all to see, and your illogic is sad. You forgive ISIS for barbarism. You side with criminals and offer excuses for most criminality. You hate the US and Western Europe, and most importantly, you choose lawlessness. I couldn't indict your philosophy any better than you did.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> Your bias is now exposed for all to see, and your illogic is sad. You forgive ISIS for barbarism. You side with criminals and offer excuses for most criminality. You hate the US and Western Europe, and most importantly, you choose lawlessness. I couldn't indict your philosophy any better than you did.


Hear, Hear.


----------



## Bea 465 (Mar 27, 2011)

joycevv said:


> I didn't see anarchy when we were students in England! Twelve year old boys wouldn't be shot by police for playing with a toy gun. The 18 year old in Ferguson could have easily been subdued by a Taser, same with the deranged veteran last week in Florida.


It's possible the police in Ferguson are not equipped with tasers. Also, earlier this month, the Justice Department found that the claim Michael Brown had his hands up before he was shot by Officer Darren Wilson was inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence and that witnesses have acknowledged their initial accounts were untrue (ie they lied), completely discrediting the entire foundation of the Black Lives Matter movement.

Brown had just robbed a convenience store before trying to grab Officer Darren Wilsons gun, punching him in the face and then charging him. To claim he was an innocent victim of racially-driven police brutality is clearly erroneous. This was not some innocent young man.

I'm sorry the justice system in Ferguson is so skewered against Blacks, but I think things will change for the better now that officials have been fired and the State is getting involved.


----------



## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

mangosalsa said:


> when I started school seventy years ago things like this never and I mean never happened. We went to school for an education and got a good one. No distractions and the teachers and parents worked together. As students we wanted to do well and make our parents proud of us. What on earth has changed?


EVERYTHING has changed.  Sadly.


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## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


I tell you what, Joyce, next time there are heavily armed criminals shooting up banks and stores, not to mention people (LA Bank of America robbery), blowing up innocent people (Boston Marathon), or shooting up their high school for the fun of it (Columbine) you can go out there with your billy club and see how good that works. Oh, you think that maybe the police should have guns to deal with those sorts of things? Well, that's why they are armed.


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

Furface said:


> Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Doriseve (Jul 7, 2014)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


When I lived in the Cynon Valley in 2009 we took a trip to Cardiff and notice some totally veiled women walking along the street, so you appear to have Muslims in the area. So possibly some racial problems.


----------



## linda09 (Dec 21, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Does it? How? I'm somehow managing to have lived 58 years in this gunless hellhole. I've never actually seen a gun in my life, and I want to keep it that way. As you say, there is no comparison between our countries. Long may it continue.


So agree. Would hate to see police with guns on our streets as a matter of course. I think it would make me feel very nervous -not of the police,but of the thought that they needed to be armed.


----------



## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

ute4kp said:


> Very simplistic. Doesn't give the background of what the troublemakers were doing. So easy to be an armchair know it all.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Easy to talk when you don't know the whole story.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

tamarque said:


> So you sport the neo-conservative/Tea Party mantra which is not based on fact--never was and never will be. Adam Smith, the big proponent of Capitalism, even noted that without very strong gov't controls, it would do exactly what it has done--create a divided society with wealth at the top and poverty spread around.
> 
> You know, my best teachers were those who role modeled cynicism. They taught that it was okay to question the mainstream mantra and to question the marketing propaganda and how it worked.
> 
> ...


Obama has, for the time being, nationalized health "care", he issues edicts that HE says are laws, he wants church leaders in America to be watched carefully by the IRS, he has cut our military to bare knuckles, he wants to remove the 2nd Amendment, and he thinks the 1st amendment only applies to Muslims. You're right though, he's not a socialist, he's a petty dictator, just like in a "Banana Repulic. And BTW, I get MY news from the liberal news agencies on the other networks, not Fox. And, just WHY is LIBERAL news the ONLY correct one. Because the people who taught YOU that said so.


----------



## tamarque (Jan 21, 2011)

Well, I hope you all enjoy a militarized country and the loss of your civil liberties. And while you blame people of color and so-called aliens (from where? Mars?) I hope you enjoy watching your income disappear while the wealthy increase theirs. And I hope you don't have any children or grand children as the forced drugging in this country and the world is causing autism at the rate of 1:50 in boys and 1:70 (approx) in all children. But you can rail against pot smoking which not only doesn't cause violence or ill-health, but actually improves health in very sick people and that will make you feel good. 

Instead of trying to understand where other people are coming from, you just keep on screaming and supporting more police violence. But not having walked a mile in others shoes, you are sure you know the reality of their lives. As Tim Wise likes to say, one of the privileges of whiteness is the entitlement to not know what such privilege is based on--yep, racism and classism.


----------



## Ann DeGray (May 11, 2011)

mangosalsa said:


> I consider your response not only angry but also aggresive.
> And I don't need to hear your voice or anyone elses to determine that. Respect one anothers opinions you may
> learn something. Be kind and gentle in your response and
> set a good example. We live in a complex world and we
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: 
Don't worry, we *do* hear your voices. And there is no mistaking the anger.


----------



## StitchDesigner (Jan 24, 2011)

tamarque said:


> Well, I hope you all enjoy a militarized country and the loss of your civil liberties. And while you blame people of color and so-called aliens (from where? Mars?) I hope you enjoy watching your income disappear while the wealthy increase theirs. And I hope you don't have any children or grand children as the forced drugging in this country and the world is causing autism at the rate of 1:50 in boys and 1:70 (approx) in all children. But you can rail against pot smoking which not only doesn't cause violence or ill-health, but actually improves health in very sick people and that will make you feel good.
> 
> Instead of trying to understand where other people are coming from, you just keep on screaming and supporting more police violence. But not having walked a mile in others shoes, you are sure you know the reality of their lives. As Tim Wise likes to say, one of the privileges of whiteness is the entitlement to not know what such privilege is based on--yep, racism and classism.


Did you happen to note that Al Sharpton is being sued for racist statements he made during the Furguson feasco? To the tune of several Billion dollars. Why? Because he told blacks across the country to travel to Furguson and tear the city apart. But I guess we are supposed, by your "logic" to let his statements go because he is "of color?" Well, in a republican (meaning a republic) democracy that dog don't hunt. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And did I hear jealousy in your tirade? Jealous because you aren't of the money classes of the US. And the correct term is classes. Only ISIS and Al-Quaeda believe that only whites in the US have anything. And, boy, do they just LOVE to spread their lies.

Why don't ISIS and Al-Quaeda try to understand where other people and cultures are coming from, instead of beheading people? Or am I not understanding how "peaceable" Islam is? Tell that to the Twin Towers victims' relatives and the relatives of the ISIS victims. I'm pretty sure they see things differently that your religion skewed world-view.


----------



## Katia (Nov 1, 2011)

I went to a rural school; police were unheard of then. But I have taught in a program where I often had young felons in class. More than an occasional resource officer would have made me--and many parents--more comfortable!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> 25% of violent crime in the US is committed by illegals who have been deported at least once. So, I'd say illegal immigration is a problem. That isn't the UK's problem, however. Their problem is willingly embracing legal immigration to the point that cultural clashes are occurring. Immigrants are what grew America. When assimilation occurs, it is a positive thing. When cultures refuse to assimilate, the welcoming country is changed forever and violence will occur.


Can you post a link for those statistics?

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> Actually, there is less gun crime in cities where citizens are armed. It is the cities with gun restrictions that have high crime rates. Criminals don't abide by the anti-gun laws. That leaves criminals in charge and not enough armed police to be everywhere protecting the unarmed citizens.


I need weblinks for your statistics that you quote. If you dn't have them, then it is simply not worth posting....sorry!!

I am sure I am not alone.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

flitri said:


> Something definitely going on if they have the dogs and helicopters out. Our Police are fully armed here in Australia but I know that the Police in the UK aren't armed.


They are only armed, usually special squads, when needed. Even today the UK police are unarmed.

Some have Tasers, but they are not liked by the public....

NI is a special case.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> http://www.immigrationpolicy.org/just-facts/anecdotes-evidence-setting-record-straight-immigrants-and-crime-0


Interesting link, thanks.

Andy


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Absolutely, but they're never there when you need them here in Australia and always there when you don't want them!


The only way the police could be there when you need them is if they are there when you don't want them.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> You are a troll if you personally attack someone on this thread, and you know it Damemary. You don't like me because I am logical, and you flail around unable to voice an opinion. Your leftist buddy, Wombatnomoree, contacted you to begin the attack. Bullying should not be allowed on KP, but I have learned after a couple years of dealing with you that this is your mode of operation. I know you are a low information voter in the US, who believes anything the Obama administration tells you. Think about it. Obama is promoting illegal immigration. The link you provided is justification for what he is doing.
> 
> If you had merely voiced your view on guns or crime or it's causes no one would have cared, and you could claim innocence. But, that is not how you operate, is it?


Perhaps you would be so kind as to post the web links that support your thoughts please. I am interested in reading them.

I find for example many Wikipedia links to be well written and I believe accurate as they also post links to support what they are saying.....

No links and you will always get criticized here.

What Judge Judy always calls "hearsay!"

Thats life.....

Thanks in advance.

Andy


----------



## sylviaelliott (May 11, 2011)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


ooh er. let us know what it was when you find out.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


Well put.

Andy


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> The DOJ is investigating the Ferguson PD so I'd be careful relying on Autopsy or other reports for the time being.


The DOJ's official autopsy report had the same findings as the other two autopsy reports. The DOJ report also stated that Michael Brown did not have his hands in the air prior to being shot. The DOJ report also found no reason to indict Officer Warren based on eye witness reports. This is basically old news since Holder and a news conference in September where he pretty much said what this report concluded. A town was destroyed because an angry mob didn't care to find out the truth.


----------



## Condia (Jul 24, 2012)

The United States of today is not the same country I grew up in during the 50's 60's. I think we are one of the most violent countries in the world and it is only getting worse. It is not safe to even drive in some of our cities. I am thankful that we have armed police men. Yes, every now and again you will see the sensationalism of "Police killing citizens" the media portrays this as an everyday occurrence which it is not. They don't show how many THOUSANDS of our armed police officers help people every single day. We are a very open country now as another poster stated, with illegals everywhere, and even some that go through the legal channels to become citizens and it just is not safe here anymore. I remember never locking the doors when going out or to bed at night, I would not think of it anymore. Even locked and alarmed if they want in they will get in but at least I will be given a little warning. Be Safe all. As for me, I want to keep our armed police.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> I need weblinks for your statistics that you quote. If you dn't have them, then it is simply not worth posting....sorry!!
> 
> I am sure I am not alone.
> 
> Andy


The FBI puts out that information yearly, along with statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens. You will probably be surprised at how low that figure is.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Can you post a link for those statistics?
> 
> Andy


Andy you can do your own research by googling 25% of illegal aliens previously deported. I hope you read all the articles. The stats are dependent on the year referenced, but many stats about crime and illegals show much higher numbers. The 25% that I referenced has been quoted many times in US news. I suspect it is a compiled ratio.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

tamarque said:


> So you sport the neo-conservative/Tea Party mantra which is not based on fact--never was and never will be. Adam Smith, the big proponent of Capitalism, even noted that without very strong gov't controls, it would do exactly what it has done--create a divided society with wealth at the top and poverty spread around.
> 
> You know, my best teachers were those who role modeled cynicism. They taught that it was okay to question the mainstream mantra and to question the marketing propaganda and how it worked.
> 
> ...


Love your posts. Accurate and well thought out and written....

They won't make you popular with the white supremacists here though.....and there are plenty of them. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Stay true to yourself. You have my full support as I am used to being shot at.....    

The one major difference (there are many minor ones as well!) I feel between the UK and the USA which has produced all these negative changes over many years with regards to murder and firearms, is the second amendment....

Now criticizing that will earn attacks from all and sundry.....and in a way I agree strangely as I feel that the USA is now so far down the private firearms road, there is simply no way back.....though I would love to be proved wrong.

Its a fact (I can supply the web link if anyone needs it) that there are NO accurate statistics as to exactly how many guns there are in the USA and exactly who owns them all.....its simply an unknown!!

But it is thought that only 1 in 5 US citizens actually owns a gun.......that is 4 people out of 5, for some reason, do not believe in them....simple fact....(which I can post a web link for if needed)

In the UK we have the worst types of killing guns banned since the 1990s, that is hand guns.

Totally banned except for the police (when needed) and the military. Even our Olympics pistol team flies to Spain to train....     
To own a rifle or a shot gun, you have to get a license, not easy....

There is quite a good link that shows just how low are gun fatalities of both the police and civilians in the UK. Plus its falling each year.....here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_the_United_Kingdom

Also, guns per capita has a startling map:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

But thats simply my own opinion.

Wait up for the reaction from the gun toting folks!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

Regards

Andy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Andy - look at the GAO (Government Accountability Office) or U.S. Immigration Office or FBI Crime Stats.

All will confirm what has been posted. In fact, you'll find the percentages indicated in the reports higher than 25%.

Also, considering the reports are probably not up-to-date, the last report I read was through 2005, and illegal immigration has increased drastically in the past five years and specifically under the Obama Admin who has released or not imprisoned all illegal criminals as previously done, and prisons do have not enough room and ICE agents have been repressed to follow the standing laws and have been ordered to release illegal aliens. Meanwhile understand all state and local prisons and jail are not included in the reports, and all illegal criminals are not imprisoned or detained, and you should have no problem understanding the 25% is a conservative estimate.


----------



## Auntiesue (Dec 24, 2012)

Just a little history...America has a Constitution which protects the RIGHT for its citizens to bear arms. There are reasons our founders placed this RIGHT near the top of the list. Reason one was to protect its citizens from its government! Remember at that time ENGLAND was forcing citizens to pay horrible taxes enforced with fire power. That was the primary reason but a close second was the fact that we were settling a very raw land mass. Folks needed to eat and protect themselves. This right in the US is considered part of "natures law". The right to protect yourself is universal. This is our birthright. This is our history unlike other countries. Respect that right! Cherish it as there are those who wish to remove that right under the assumption killings will stop. Unarm America and horrible things will happen. There are those that wish to "transform" America.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Alicatt said:


> USA's micro and macro rule is through force - government is fascist and citizens are not free. If a police approaches you in the USA, respond immediately with your hands up or You Will Be Shot.


I watch the program from the USA called "Cops", you can see just why there are nervous.....why do people risk their lives and risk getting shot or Tasered.....

Numbers of officers shot in the USA year by year:-

http://www.nleomf.org/facts/officer-fatalities-data/year.html

Regards

Andy


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

StitchDesigner said:


> Obama has, for the time being, nationalized health "care", he issues edicts that HE says are laws, he wants church leaders in America to be watched carefully by the IRS, he has cut our military to bare knuckles, he wants to remove the 2nd Amendment, and he thinks the 1st amendment only applies to Muslims. You're right though, he's not a socialist, he's a petty dictator, just like in a "Banana Repulic. And BTW, I get MY news from the liberal news agencies on the other networks, not Fox. And, just WHY is LIBERAL news the ONLY correct one. Because the people who taught YOU that said so.


I've been reading all these pages for a while. NOTHING in your above quote is factual. Nothing.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

WindingRoad said:


> I guess you forgot about the ARMED BRITISH SOLDIERS in Boston?


Recently?

Andy


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


You had a premonition!


----------



## Ask4j (May 21, 2011)

StitchDesigner wrote:
Obama has, for the time being, nationalized health "care", he issues edicts that HE says are laws, he wants church leaders in America to be watched carefully by the IRS, he has cut our military to bare knuckles, he wants to remove the 2nd Amendment, and he thinks the 1st amendment only applies to Muslims. You're right though, he's not a socialist, he's a petty dictator, just like in a "Banana Repulic. And BTW, I get MY news from the liberal news agencies on the other networks, not Fox. And, just WHY is LIBERAL news the ONLY correct one. Because the people who taught YOU that said so.



BethP0201 said:


> I've been reading all these pages for a while. *NOTHING in your above quote is factual. Nothing.*


I so agree and that is why we don't encourage "political talk" on this site!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

tamarque said:


> Well, I hope you all enjoy a militarized country and the loss of your civil liberties. And while you blame people of color and so-called aliens (from where? Mars?) I hope you enjoy watching your income disappear while the wealthy increase theirs. And I hope you don't have any children or grand children as the forced drugging in this country and the world is causing autism at the rate of 1:50 in boys and 1:70 (approx) in all children. But you can rail against pot smoking which not only doesn't cause violence or ill-health, but actually improves health in very sick people and that will make you feel good.
> 
> Instead of trying to understand where other people are coming from, you just keep on screaming and supporting more police violence. But not having walked a mile in others shoes, you are sure you know the reality of their lives. As Tim Wise likes to say, one of the privileges of whiteness is the entitlement to not know what such privilege is based on--yep, racism and classism.


Sadly for the pot smokers, recent knowledge has that it is bad for your health...see here.

http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html

I will try it one day when I know that I will be dying in a short time!!!    
Andy


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Not true at all, and I think you know it. Everyone is free to express their opinions here, but those that express their thoughts without sources are suspicious....some may call them trolls.
> 
> IMHO blaming immigrants for our ills and urging guns on everyone shows someone who revels in the problems without offering solutions. I admit I find this distasteful.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You are a troll if you personally attack someone on this thread, and you know it Damemary. You don't like me because I am logical, and you flail around unable to voice an opinion. Your leftist buddy, Wombatnomoree, contacted you to begin the attack. Bullying should not be allowed on KP, but I have learned after a couple years of dealing with you that this is your mode of operation. I know you are a low information voter in the US, who believes anything the Obama administration tells you. Think about it. Obama is promoting illegal immigration. The link you provided is justification for what he is doing.
> 
> If you had merely voiced your view on guns or crime or it's causes no one would have cared, and you could claim innocence. But, that is not how you operate, is it?


Seems you're the only one caring about whatever I or Damemary have contributed to this thread. Most paranoid of you.


----------



## train (Nov 6, 2011)

I am a right wing republican. I think most of our problems are overpopulation, hence the immigration. Overpopulation is the root of 99% of everyone's problems, but people are having babies like rabbits. I would never, ever bring a child into this bleak world. As soon as the people realize this, it will be too late.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> The FBI puts out that information yearly, along with statistics on police killings of unarmed citizens. You will probably be surprised at how low that figure is.


I found a few website like this one:-

http://openborders.info/hispanic-crime-and-illegal-immigration-in-the-united-states/

http://migrationinformation.org/sites/default/files/source_charts/rumbaut-table1-jun06.cfm

Andy


----------



## nissa (Jan 5, 2013)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


Mary Cardiff, stay safe Hun. Probably aninvestigation or a chase, but stay safe. No where is safe anymore, some more less than others. I hope you and your family are okay?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Doriseve said:


> When I lived in the Cynon Valley in 2009 we took a trip to Cardiff and notice some totally veiled women walking along the street, so you appear to have Muslims in the area. So possibly some racial problems.


Interesting supposition. So, because you saw some "totally veiled women" walking in the Cardiff area back in 2009, the current scenario raised by the OP could be racial? :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## nissa (Jan 5, 2013)

I don't think the OP's comment was meant to be racial, just no matter where you are in the world, it's not safe as it once was. As for veil, just because their choice is to cover doesn't mean their criminals. Muslim's come from all walks of life, of many cultures just following one religion.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

nissa said:


> I don't think the OP's comment was meant to be racial, just no matter where you are in the world, it's not safe as it once was. As for veil, just because their choice is to cover doesn't mean their criminals. Muslim's come from all walks of life, of many cultures just following one religion.


I don't think you got my post. It struck me as :shock: that someone would immediately think that the armed police presence where the OP lives is "possibly racial" based on their having seen "veiled women" in Cardiff 6 years ago. I find that worrying.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Love your posts. Accurate and well thought out and written....
> 
> They won't make you popular with the white supremacists here though.....and there are plenty of them. :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
> 
> ...


You'll do much better here without your racist remarks about others. I bet some of the Jews a few years ago wished their guns hadn't been taken from them. Or were you in favor of that tactic?


----------



## nissa (Jan 5, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't think you got my post. It struck me as :shock: that someone would immediately think that the armed police presence where the OP lives is "possibly racial" based on their having seen "veiled women" in Cardiff 6 years ago. I find that worrying.


wombatnomore with isis popularity, and what's happened in France and Australia and USA, i'm not surprising Muslim's will be thought of first.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't think you got my post. It struck me as :shock: that someone would immediately think that the armed police presence where the OP lives is "possibly racial" based on their having seen "veiled women" in Cardiff 6 years ago. I find that worrying.


Why, It could be true or not. It's an observation. Why have you got to turn it into something else. If she had seen a large grizzly bear should she mention that. Do you have a"card" for that too? I'd be interested in knowing the name of that card.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

linda09 said:


> So agree. Would hate to see police with guns on our streets as a matter of course. I think it would make me feel very nervous -not of the police,but of the thought that they needed to be armed.


So therefore if they are not armed you'd feel safe seeing criminals walking down that same street with weapons?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

tamarque said:


> I think your education is a typical American one--lots of propaganda and bigotry. You demand facts, but you have none. As a sociology major and someone who has studied political and social situations all my life, I can assure you that you omit all meaningful information in your comment to damemary. The sexual revolution and pot smoking did not kill the family or create ADD or ADHD. Correlation in time is no proof of causation.
> 
> Have you looked at the effect of McCarthyism on the public? Have you looked at the effect of growing corporate power and its effect of breaking up communities? Do you know that IBM was lauded for its personnel policies which created a cultist and controlled worker population which broke up communities with the benefit of controlling their workers, making them dependent on the company instead of families? Have you ever looked at inflation as part of the impetus for women to work as the 1 income family could not survive? Do you ever question the core nature of Capitalism and how it really works to control the public, including the public education system? Please, before you begin to attack some you disagree with, look in the mirror for feed back on what you are actually saying and doing. And for someone who prides herself on her teaching degree, ask what the heck are you really believing, teaching and who provides your information? The mainstream propaganda machine? I could go on, but enough said now.


Tell it like it is Tamarque :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Tell it like it is Tamarque :thumbup:


Reinforcements I see. Thought you guys didn't like a presence?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> I watch the program from the USA called "Cops", you can see just why there are nervous.....why do people risk their lives and risk getting shot or Tasered.....
> 
> Numbers of officers shot in the USA year by year:-
> 
> ...


You watch FICTION and you expect to be taken seriously? Really?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Did you bother to read my other post. Too many to list as causes of these issues? I'm thinking not. I also have degrees. And?


One would never know it by your posts. You write as if you had a very provincial and limited education. You show very little insight on your own country and what is going on in the rest of the world. You are way out of your league :thumbdown:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> One would never know it by your posts. You write as if you had a very provincial and limited education. You show very little insight on your own country and what is going on in the rest of the world. You are way out of your league :thumbdown:


I'll take my chances. If I'm out of my league why would you warn me? Worried are you?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

tamarque said:


> You and I have had our points of agreement and disagreement in various discussions but I don't recall name calling or insults being thrown--hope my memory serves.
> 
> Knit crazy is throwing out a lot of stuff as if there is some proof to her positions. From my point of view, experience, history study, and work on grass roots levels, there is nothing of value in her rants. In my book, in order to make judgements of value, you need to able to see the big picture and perform meaningful analysis. And that doesn't mean twisting information to where you want it, or just plain denying it.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Your bias is now exposed for all to see, and your illogic is sad. You forgive ISIS for barbarism. You side with criminals and offer excuses for most criminality. You hate the US and Western Europe, and most importantly, you choose lawlessness. I couldn't indict your philosophy any better than you did.


No that would be you and winding road who expose your ignorance and superficial "at best" comprehension and understanding of the world around you. I suggest you both lock you doors and get out your weapons and tune in faux news and open up your bibles. Be afraid, be very afraid you are both crazy. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Bea 465 said:


> It's possible the police in Ferguson are not equipped with tasers. Also, earlier this month, the Justice Department found that the claim Michael Brown had his hands up before he was shot by Officer Darren Wilson was inconsistent with the physical and forensic evidence and that witnesses have acknowledged their initial accounts were untrue (ie they lied), completely discrediting the entire foundation of the Black Lives Matter movement.
> 
> Brown had just robbed a convenience store before trying to grab Officer Darren Wilsons gun, punching him in the face and then charging him. To claim he was an innocent victim of racially-driven police brutality is clearly erroneous. This was not some innocent young man.
> 
> I'm sorry the justice system in Ferguson is so skewered against Blacks, but I think things will change for the better now that officials have been fired and the State is getting involved.


I hope things get better in Ferguson, Bea. They sure can't get much worse.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> No that would be you and winding road who expose your ignorance and superficial "at best" comprehension and understanding of the world around you. I suggest you both lock you doors and get out your weapons and tune in faux news and open up your bibles. Be afraid, be very afraid you are both crazy. :thumbup:


Why would I do that. I"m a atheist. Seems you don't know half of what you think you know about me. I'm not afraid. My police force is armed to the teeth. And they know how to use them and will.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I hope things get better in Ferguson, Bea. They sure can't get much worse.


Did you even read the post you are replying to?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

StitchDesigner said:


> Did you happen to note that Al Sharpton is being sued for racist statements he made during the Furguson feasco? To the tune of several Billion dollars. Why? Because he told blacks across the country to travel to Furguson and tear the city apart. But I guess we are supposed, by your "logic" to let his statements go because he is "of color?" Well, in a republican (meaning a republic) democracy that dog don't hunt. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And did I hear jealousy in your tirade? Jealous because you aren't of the money classes of the US. And the correct term is classes. Only ISIS and Al-Quaeda believe that only whites in the US have anything. And, boy, do they just LOVE to spread their lies.
> 
> Why don't ISIS and Al-Quaeda try to understand where other people and cultures are coming from, instead of beheading people? Or am I not understanding how "peaceable" Islam is? Tell that to the Twin Towers victims' relatives and the relatives of the ISIS victims. I'm pretty sure they see things differently that your religion skewed world-view.


All opinion with several out and out lies thrown in. Where is even one source of proof for anything you have said? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> All opinion with several out and out lies thrown in. Where is even one source of proof for anything you have said? :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


And where is your proof. Have you seen the title of the thread. Armed Police are you saying they don't exist in the USA?


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> I need weblinks for your statistics that you quote. If you dn't have them, then it is simply not worth posting....sorry!!
> 
> I am sure I am not alone.
> 
> Andy


I agree. We all have opinions. Where are the facts to back you up? We need sources that are reliable.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Andy - look at the GAO (Government Accountability Office) or U.S. Immigration Office or FBI Crime Stats.
> 
> All will confirm what has been posted. In fact, you'll find the percentages indicated in the reports higher than 25%.
> 
> Also, considering the reports are probably not up-to-date, the last report I read was through 2005, and illegal immigration has increased drastically in the past five years and specifically under the Obama Admin who has released or not imprisoned all illegal criminals as previously done, and prisons do have not enough room and ICE agents have been repressed to follow the standing laws and have been ordered to release illegal aliens. Meanwhile understand all state and local prisons and jail are not included in the reports, and all illegal criminals are not imprisoned or detained, and you should have no problem understanding the 25% is a conservative estimate.


You call this facts? This is a joke at best but I must consider the source. :thumbdown: :hunf:


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Well, as usual a thread about guns degenerates into a scrap between gun-lovers and the rest of us. As a Brit, I am clearly on the side of criminals and terrorists because I don't like to see armed police in everyday life. Moreover, any such debate inevitably becomes a parochial US argument because there are more of you and the rest of the world really doesn't matter. Of course, that doesn't stop some commenting on other countries' circumstances - knowledge and/or experience totally unnecessary.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Auntiesue said:


> Just a little history...America has a Constitution which protects the RIGHT for its citizens to bear arms. There are reasons our founders placed this RIGHT near the top of the list. Reason one was to protect its citizens from its government! Remember at that time ENGLAND was forcing citizens to pay horrible taxes enforced with fire power. That was the primary reason but a close second was the fact that we were settling a very raw land mass. Folks needed to eat and protect themselves. This right in the US is considered part of "natures law". The right to protect yourself is universal. This is our birthright. This is our history unlike other countries. Respect that right! Cherish it as there are those who wish to remove that right under the assumption killings will stop. Unarm America and horrible things will happen. There are those that wish to "transform" America.


Do tell what horrors will we see? :twisted:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> I've been reading all these pages for a while. NOTHING in your above quote is factual. Nothing.


Thank you, Beth. These are all very biased opinions and nothing more. Where are her facts? Guess she has none.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Ask4j said:


> StitchDesigner wrote:
> Obama has, for the time being, nationalized health "care", he issues edicts that HE says are laws, he wants church leaders in America to be watched carefully by the IRS, he has cut our military to bare knuckles, he wants to remove the 2nd Amendment, and he thinks the 1st amendment only applies to Muslims. You're right though, he's not a socialist, he's a petty dictator, just like in a "Banana Repulic. And BTW, I get MY news from the liberal news agencies on the other networks, not Fox. And, just WHY is LIBERAL news the ONLY correct one. Because the people who taught YOU that said so.
> 
> I so agree and that is why we don't encourage "political talk" on this site!


Agree with you but must respectfully disagree with the no "political talk" stand you take. We are allowed to discuss whatever we like on this section of KP and all you have to do is skip this. No one is forcing you to do anything. :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Seems you're the only one caring about whatever I or Damemary have contributed to this thread. Most paranoid of you.


Go Wombat :thumbup:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You'll do much better here without your racist remarks about others. I bet some of the Jews a few years ago wished their guns hadn't been taken from them. Or were you in favor of that tactic?


I didn't see any racist remarks in Andy's post you must be getting him confused with the drivel you and your merry band put out here. Try reading and opening your mind to something more mind expanding. The cobwebs are showing.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Why, It could be true or not. It's an observation. Why have you got to turn it into something else. If she had seen a large grizzly bear should she mention that. Do you have a"card" for that too? I'd be interested in knowing the name of that card.


Nuns wear veil too so are you afraid of them as well. You really are very obtuse aren't you? :hunf:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You watch FICTION and you expect to be taken seriously? Really?


Pathetic reply at best but I guess it's the best you can do considering the source. :lol:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I'll take my chances. If I'm out of my league why would you warn me? Worried are you?


Worried, not in the least. Just continue to embarrass yourself :lol:


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## Auntiesue (Dec 24, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Tell it like it is Tamarque :thumbup:


True capitalism has not been in place in this country for over 50 years. FDR took take of that. I would like to see it come back. Corporate partner with government and our tax codes make that impossible. If we could simplify the tax code (flat tax for ALL) there would be no need for those that lobby congress, no need to cater to special interests for money to support your re-election.....Hmmmmm, interesting!!! Now maybe one can understand why this tax idea will never see the light of day......


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nuns wear veil too so are you afraid of them as well. You really are very obtuse aren't you? :hunf:


I didn't say I was afraid of any veiled person.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

nissa said:


> wombatnomore with isis popularity, and what's happened in France and Australia and USA, i'm not surprising Muslim's will be thought of first.


There is that, however, I don't think it's helpful to make suppositions/ assumptions when there is no information to support them. As far as we all know to date, the OP observed armed police in her area. Suggesting that the scenario is "possibly racial" speaks volumes about the readiness of people to blame immigrants for no reason.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Worried, not in the least. Just continue to embarrass yourself :lol:


I shall and bring you right along with me. What's that saying about arguing with a fool. I bet you know it....


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is that, however, I don't think it's helpful to make suppositions/ assumptions when there is no information to support them. As far as we all know to date, the OP observed armed police in her area. Suggesting that the scenario is "possibly racial" speaks volumes about the readiness of people to blame immigrants for no reason.


The poster said nothing about race. YOU DID.


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## Weasynana (May 8, 2014)

Mary Cardiff said:


> Only last night, I was thinking we never see Police here.This morning letting the dog out, 3 armed police men with dogs arrive in the green,Didnt come to my end,But it must be something bad,As are police are not always armed in the UK,The helicopter is now flying over the area,


Gosh, Mary. It seems your sighting policemen in your area has caused a real fire storm on KP. Wow! I hope all is now well at your home. I also hope reason will prevail as responses seem to have lost the train of thought and gotten out of hand. Peace be with you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Why would I do that. I"m a atheist. Seems you don't know half of what you think you know about me. I'm not afraid. My police force is armed to the teeth. And they know how to use them and will.


Note to self; "WindingRoad is an atheist." See I already know more about you. You should be afraid with all the guns around you. They may shoot you by "accident" and ask questions later. It's the thing to do now you know?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Pathetic reply at best but I guess it's the best you can do cosdering the source. :lol:


You have a better one. Are you saying you believe everything on TV? Really? I'm amazed.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Did you even read the post you are replying to?


Yes, I certainly did. Thank you for your concern. :thumbup:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Note to self; "WindingRoad is an atheist." See I already know more about you. You should be afraid with all the guns around you. They may shoot you by "accident" and ask questions later. It's the thing to do now you know?


Ask me if I care. I'm planning on dying someday what about you? Why are you so worried about my survival?

BTW my being an atheist is really very old news. BTW I'm white so according to you I shouldn't have much to worry about. RIGHT?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Nuns wear veil too so are you afraid of them as well. You really are very obtuse aren't you? :hunf:


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

WindingRoad said:


> The poster said nothing about race. YOU DID.


I was referring to a response I made to an earlier poster who did mention race. You've accused someone else for not reading posts correctly and yet you don't read them correctly yourself. You seem very confused.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> I shall and bring you right along with me. What's that saying about arguing with a fool. I bet you know it....


At least you have enough insight to admit you are a fool. Good for you, WindingRoad. I am just having fun with you. No one is forcing you to interact. :lol:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> At least you have enough insight to admit you are a fool. Good for you, WindingRoad. I am just having fun with you. No one is forcing you to interact. :lol:


Nor you.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> You have a better one. Are you saying you believe everything on TV? Really? I'm amazed.


Try to keep up. I never said I believe everything on TV. How do you know I even own one? More of those assumptions?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Try to keep up. I never said I believe everything on TV. How do you know I even own one? More of those assumptions?


But of course. My reference to fools lies in the fact that it is foolish to discuss something that you nor I have any control over nor will we ever change. That's just foolishness.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> Ask me if I care. I'm planning on dying someday what about you? Why are you so worried about my survival?
> 
> BTW my being an atheist is really very old news. BTW I'm white so according to you I shouldn't have much to worry about. RIGHT?


I am not the least bit worried about you. Whatever made you think I cared? You certainly aren't the least bit likable or interesting.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

WindingRoad said:


> But of course. My reference to fools lies in the fact that it is foolish to discuss something that you nor I have any control over nor will we ever change. That's just foolishness.


You have no sense of whimsy, Winding Road. Your loss, not mine. :XD:


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You have no sense of whimsy, Winding Road. Your loss, not mine. :XD:


I have more than you know. If you only knew that is.....


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## grammyv (Feb 11, 2011)

To those who do not understand US and our reliance on guns.
We are not that far removed from wilderness hazards.Less than 100 years ago, my mother and her younger brother rode the family horse through apple orchards. He carried a rifle to school since it was common for bear to come into the orchards scavenging apples.
My husband carried a shot gun to high school so he could go duck hunting after school. He stored it in his school locker.
Our daughter lives in a suburban neighborhood that backs up to a green belt. A few years ago they had a bear mosey into their back yard. They've also seen coyotes.
Alaskans frequently have to contend with polar bear in the far north. 
Just a little perspective on why some are dependent on firearms.


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## GemsByGranny (Dec 7, 2012)

Furface said:


> Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?





CarolfromTX said:


> Well, imagine if they weren't armed. Would you prefer anarchy? Because that's what you'd get if the police were armed only with billy clubs.


I think the issue is, what is going on, so that these precautions become necessary?


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

GemsByGranny said:


> I think the issue is, what is going on, so that these precautions become necessary?


I think it's called bad guys with guns ready and willing to shoot whomever is in their way. I could be wrong.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> The trolls are out today. Isn't it funny how the attack dogs operate? They really just want to shut down discussion by attacking others personally.


They are trying to keep the facts straight. You state your OPINIONS as fact and you're consistently wrong.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Aunty Sheryl said:


> I'm not by any means an expert at anything, and don't want to anger anyone, but just thought you may find this interesting also. The school where my grand-niece goes has a number of ADD/ADHD kids (their diagnosis) and the thing they said every one had in common, was drug-taking fathers. They may also have other things in common, but that's all I was told. As I said, I just posted it as it may interest you to know that they look at that here, too.


Hardly a scientific study.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

StitchDesigner said:


> Did you happen to note that Al Sharpton is being sued for racist statements he made during the Furguson feasco? To the tune of several Billion dollars. Why? Because he told blacks across the country to travel to Furguson and tear the city apart.


The lawsuit against Sharpon has nothing whatever to do with Ferguson. Where do you get this crap?


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## GoodyTwoShoes (Apr 4, 2013)

This thread was interesting to read until the ugly personal attacks started. This is exactly why the world is what it is...people can't accept other people's differences.


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## knitpick1 (Dec 13, 2014)

I'm 68 years old and I'm disappointed at how my country America is being run by a president that won't admit to the danger of terrorists, doesn't control the borders, and in general has a laid back attitude about everything except fueling the fire of racism. We now have the most racist person as president I've ever seen. He ran on the promise of bringing the people together but instead he has done the opposite. I can't wait to see him out of our White House and hope the door slams after him. I also blame our courts for being too easy with criminals. Anymore it seems the criminals have more rights than the victims. And with peoples nerves being stressed almost to the breaking point here, especially the LEO's because of Ferguson, that 12 yr. old kids parents should have taught him to act more safely. That cop was in fear of his life. People like to throw stones at police but who do they call when they need help? That's right. Those cops have homes and families the same as anyone else. And I'm glad they're in our schools now. It's sad but now it's necessary. If someones kid gets murdered at school by someone who just walked in they would scream, where were the police. This world has so many crazy people that want to do us harm. I'm just glad we have the right to bear arms here to defend ourselves and our families. But if it were left up to our president we would all be disarmed and would all be victims to Communism. I love the English peoples stamina. They seem to be able to withstand anything that happens and keep a stiff upper lip and go on. They have an optimistic attitude. Sadly there is crime everywhere.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

knitpick1 said:


> I'm 68 years old and I'm disappointed at how my country America is being run by a president that won't admit to the danger of terrorists, doesn't control the borders, and in general has a laid back attitude about everything except fueling the fire of racism. We now have the most racist person as president I've ever seen. He ran on the promise of bringing the people together but instead he has done the opposite. I can't wait to see him out of our White House and hope the door slams after him. I also blame our courts for being too easy with criminals. Anymore it seems the criminals have more rights than the victims. And with peoples nerves being stressed almost to the breaking point here, especially the LEO's because of Ferguson, that 12 yr. old kids parents should have taught him to act more safely. That cop was in fear of his life. People like to throw stones at police but who do they call when they need help? That's right. Those cops have homes and families the same as anyone else. And I'm glad they're in our schools now. It's sad but now it's necessary. If someones kid gets murdered at school by someone who just walked in they would scream, where were the police. This world has so many crazy people that want to do us harm. I'm just glad we have the right to bear arms here to defend ourselves and our families. But if it were left up to our president we would all be disarmed and would all be victims to Communism. I love the English peoples stamina. They seem to be able to withstand anything that happens and keep a stiff upper lip and go on. They have an optimistic attitude. Sadly there is crime everywhere.


 :thumbup:


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## knitpick1 (Dec 13, 2014)

Thank you KnitCrazy for making the comment I was going to make. Gun laws don't really work. Look at Chicago. They have gun laws but have a lot of crime. I was in a grocery store here in Ohio and saw a man wearing a gun. Somehow I felt safer because in order for him to have a CC permit he had to go through a class and show he is responsible enough to carry one. My husband and his friends also had CC permits and I felt a lot safer whenever we took a trip away from home. Look what happened to that guard in England who was the victim of a terrorist attack on the street in broad daylight and had his head practically cut off. The guard wasn't armed and neither were any citizens. The terrorist had the nerve to hold up his bloody hands to the horror of everyone to see. If that happened here there's a good chance an armed citizen could have done something.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpick1 said:


> I'm 68 years old and I'm disappointed at how my country America is being run by a president that won't admit to the danger of terrorists, doesn't control the borders, and in general has a laid back attitude about everything except fueling the fire of racism. We now have the most racist person as president I've ever seen. He ran on the promise of bringing the people together but instead he has done the opposite. I can't wait to see him out of our White House and hope the door slams after him. I also blame our courts for being too easy with criminals. Anymore it seems the criminals have more rights than the victims. And with peoples nerves being stressed almost to the breaking point here, especially the LEO's because of Ferguson, that 12 yr. old kids parents should have taught him to act more safely. That cop was in fear of his life. People like to throw stones at police but who do they call when they need help? That's right. Those cops have homes and families the same as anyone else. And I'm glad they're in our schools now. It's sad but now it's necessary. If someones kid gets murdered at school by someone who just walked in they would scream, where were the police. This world has so many crazy people that want to do us harm. I'm just glad we have the right to bear arms here to defend ourselves and our families. But if it were left up to our president we would all be disarmed and would all be victims to Communism. I love the English peoples stamina. They seem to be able to withstand anything that happens and keep a stiff upper lip and go on. They have an optimistic attitude. Sadly there is crime everywhere.


Lots of points - I disagree with every one.

Please provide proof, documentation, ANYTHING to show Obama wants to disarm anyone. (The Tea Party website doesn't count). I'm talking about actual statements by Obama, actual actions by Obama and exact quotes.

How are Americans different from the English when it comes to sucking it up and going forward? We do it all the time (9/11 comes to mind). We stayed together as a country after WWII, after Viet Nam...so please explain your statement, unless you just hate the US.

Please provide evidence that Obama is racist. This claim always baffles me because I've never heard anything he has said that was hateful toward white people, Hispanic people, or anyone else. Why do you think that?


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## nissa (Jan 5, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is that, however, I don't think it's helpful to make suppositions/ assumptions when there is no information to support them. As far as we all know to date, the OP observed armed police in her area. Suggesting that the scenario is "possibly racial" speaks volumes about the readiness of people to blame immigrants for no reason.


That is very true.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpick1 said:


> Thank you KnitCrazy for making the comment I was going to make. Gun laws don't really work. Look at Chicago. They have gun laws but have a lot of crime. I was in a grocery store here in Ohio and saw a man wearing a gun. Somehow I felt safer because in order for him to have a CC permit he had to go through a class and show he is responsible enough to carry one. My husband and his friends also had CC permits and I felt a lot safer whenever we took a trip away from home. Look what happened to that guard in England who was the victim of a terrorist attack on the street in broad daylight and had his head practically cut off. The guard wasn't armed and neither were any citizens. The terrorist had the nerve to hold up his bloody hands to the horror of everyone to see. If that happened here there's a good chance an armed citizen could have done something.


CC - isn't that concealed carry? If the gun was concealed, you would not have known he had it. Don't know about laws on OPEN carry, but you need to get your facts straight.

Armed citizens don't keep us safe. In a shootout how would the police know who the good guy was? Your claim may have a few isolated incidents to "prove" armed citizens stop crime, but the premise is vastly overstated. I would rather let the police, who are trained to MAKE DECISIONS, not just shoot a gun, do the job.


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## knitpick1 (Dec 13, 2014)

DGreen: I'm an American and I love my country. I'm very patriotic. I just hate the way our Constitution is being stomped on and disregarded like it's nothing. After the Sandy Hook shooting Obama got on his band wagon and started pressing for gun control. He got the DOJ to start making it tough for some of the gun shops to keep in business. Certain types of guns have been banned. In almost every speech he brings up the race card. He took the side of the Travon Martin shooting and said he could have been his son etc. I think a president should let the states law enforcement do their jobs without putting in his two cents and making things even worse. All you have to do is get on the internet Youtube and listen to some of his speeches. And I wasn't inferring that the English are tougher than the Americans when they're attacked. I was one American that showed proud defiance when 911 happened. And a lot of my classmates were in Nam. I was only sticking up for the English against some who don't think they are intelligent or important. I also don't think Obama or his wife even like this country. If he did he wouldn't be subjecting us to all the illegals flooding our borders bringing more crime and disease with them. And I was very angry when Michelle said, "All this just for a flag?" And look at the way he has diminished our military especially now when we need protection more than we ever did. We have terrorists who want to kill us. A lot of people have their heads in the sand where he is concerned or are walking around wearing rose colored glasses. There is so much more I'd like to tell you but this isn't the place to do it. I was proud how our country stayed together after WW11 although I wasn't very old at the time, and proud after Nam even though our guys coming home were called baby killers. And don't even say that's a lie because I have family that served there and they confirmed it. No Obama isn't hateful to Hispanics or blacks because he wanted their votes and still does for his party. The only ones he's hateful to are the whites. As far as showing documentation, I won't do your job for you. Just listen to his speeches and his remarks and you will see.


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## knitpick1 (Dec 13, 2014)

DGreen: Sometimes you can't keep a gun completely concealed. I saw it when the man reached up to get something off a top shelf, and also when he bent over. His coat moved away and revealed it. And there have been reports of the citizens stopping criminals and holding them with a gun if need be until the cops get there. There was an instance on a Walmart parking lot where a guy tried to steal a ladies car with her and her kid in it. An armed citizen stopped him. Also, the police have even stated that some crime is down due to CC. The ones in my little town where I moved away from know who has them and they've even stated someday they might need to call on those citizens for help. Also I'll add, and this came straight from an officers mouth, "I don't care what Obama wants, I'll not take your guns, he can stick it". So that tells me they have been told to disarm whenever they can. And of course the police would know who was on their side in a shootout. It would be the ones who aren't shooting at them but at the criminals.


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## knitpick1 (Dec 13, 2014)

Now I've said my piece and am going to move on to another topic as that's why I got on here in the first place. The bottom line is that everyone has an opinion. Not many agree with one another and that's what makes us unique. I'm not on here to argue but sometimes to state an opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree but it's interesting reading some of your comments.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> CC - isn't that concealed carry? If the gun was concealed, you would not have known he had it. Don't know about laws on OPEN carry, but you need to get your facts straight.
> 
> Armed citizens don't keep us safe. In a shootout how would the police know who the good guy was? Your claim may have a few isolated incidents to "prove" armed citizens stop crime, but the premise is vastly overstated. I would rather let the police, who are trained to MAKE DECISIONS, not just shoot a gun, do the job.


Problem is Green, the decisions some police make end up killing people and I think that would increase if more people chose to carry guns, concealed or not. The mere whiff of a gun on an innocent person would be enough for police to shoot without question as we've seen time and again in recent months. I think the only solution is for America is to toughen up on gun ownership and trade like my country has:

http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php#Executive


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpick1 said:


> DGreen: I'm an American and I love my country. I'm very patriotic. I just hate the way our Constitution is being stomped on and disregarded like it's nothing. After the Sandy Hook shooting Obama got on his band wagon and started pressing for gun control. He got the DOJ to start making it tough for some of the gun shops to keep in business. Certain types of guns have been banned. In almost every speech he brings up the race card. He took the side of the Travon Martin shooting and said he could have been his son etc.*I think a president should let the states law enforcement do their jobs without putting in his two cents and making things even worse.* All you have to do is get on the internet Youtube and listen to some of his speeches. And I wasn't inferring that the English are tougher than the Americans when they're attacked. I was one American that showed proud defiance when 911 happened. And a lot of my classmates were in Nam. I was only sticking up for the English against some who don't think they are intelligent or important. I also don't think Obama or his wife even like this country. If he did he wouldn't be subjecting us to all the illegals flooding our borders bringing more crime and disease with them. And I was very angry when Michelle said, "All this just for a flag?" And look at the way he has diminished our military especially now when we need protection more than we ever did. We have terrorists who want to kill us. A lot of people have their heads in the sand where he is concerned or are walking around wearing rose colored glasses. There is so much more I'd like to tell you but this isn't the place to do it. I was proud how our country stayed together after WW11 although I wasn't very old at the time, and proud after Nam even though our guys coming home were called baby killers. And don't even say that's a lie because I have family that served there and they confirmed it. No Obama isn't hateful to Hispanics or blacks because he wanted their votes and still does for his party. The only ones he's hateful to are the whites. As far as showing documentation, I won't do your job for you. Just listen to his speeches and his remarks and you will see.


So the DOJ report on the Ferguson Police Department doesn't give you cause for concern? The report was damning and it figures that if one police department has been exposed thus, there are sure to be many, many others who are just as bad, if not worse.

Below is an article which discusses the conservatives now taking the DOJ report seriously. There is a link provided to the DOJ report itself. I think the report is a serious wake up call to the governments both federal and state to review all of the processes of law enforcement in your country from the training of police cadets to the culture in police stations and police command. The culture of the Australian Police Force leaves a lot to be desired also. Maybe our government and police command here need to examine this report very carefully too:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/03/conservatives-start-to-take-the-ferguson-report-seriously/387835/


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## Lynne AP (Aug 17, 2011)

Good analysis, Knit Crazy, spot on...


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## Lynne AP (Aug 17, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> You are spouting the liberal rhetoric found in most universities, where professors are overwhelming liberals living in an ivory tower world without knowledge of how the world really works. You could use some critical thinking skills.
> 
> You are trying to change the topic, crime, into McCarthyism, which ended in the 1950's. You mention inflation, which the U.S. is about to experience but hasn't yet. With interest rates being controlled by our government and oil costs sinking due to increased private production since Obama took office, inflation has been stagnate. Now, investment in U.S. businesses rises because investment in socialist countries diminishes, and we will see inflation rising according to economists. Ask yourself, do you want to be controlled by government, which picks winners and losers? Or, do you want the ability to invest and grow your wealth through your choice? You blame companies for controlling g people. You can always take another job. Up and comers do it regularly, and IBM hasn't controlled much since the 60"s. Now it's Apple, a creative company.
> 
> ...


Very good analysis, Knit Crazy. Capitalism isn't perfect, by any means, but it IS capitalism that grows the economy, not the government. The only thing government builds is more government. Obviously, we need SOME government, but not the leviathan we have now. You are very well informed. Enjoyed reading this post.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

One last comment, those who state that Obama hates America, lets "illegals" in, doesn't feel that Isis is a threat, has questioned his religion and nationality, etc., are toeing the faux news line. Faux news viewers and listeners are shown to be the LEAST factually informed than anyone, because the facts they hear are lies. Just because it is screamed loudly and often does not make it true. Use your heads, and Google.
He has deported more illegals than any administration lately, we are using more air power against Isis than any other country, many many many people in this country deplore the proliferation of guns. Hateful towards whites, his family? Makes no sense.
There is so much more but blind hatred doesn't allow the facts to be absorbed.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpick1 said:


> DGreen: I'm an American and I love my country. I'm very patriotic. I just hate the way our Constitution is being stomped on and disregarded like it's nothing. After the Sandy Hook shooting Obama got on his band wagon and started pressing for gun control. He got the DOJ to start making it tough for some of the gun shops to keep in business. Certain types of guns have been banned. In almost every speech he brings up the race card. He took the side of the Travon Martin shooting and said he could have been his son etc. I think a president should let the states law enforcement do their jobs without putting in his two cents and making things even worse. All you have to do is get on the internet Youtube and listen to some of his speeches. And I wasn't inferring that the English are tougher than the Americans when they're attacked. I was one American that showed proud defiance when 911 happened. And a lot of my classmates were in Nam. I was only sticking up for the English against some who don't think they are intelligent or important. I also don't think Obama or his wife even like this country. If he did he wouldn't be subjecting us to all the illegals flooding our borders bringing more crime and disease with them. And I was very angry when Michelle said, "All this just for a flag?" And look at the way he has diminished our military especially now when we need protection more than we ever did. We have terrorists who want to kill us. A lot of people have their heads in the sand where he is concerned or are walking around wearing rose colored glasses. There is so much more I'd like to tell you but this isn't the place to do it. I was proud how our country stayed together after WW11 although I wasn't very old at the time, and proud after Nam even though our guys coming home were called baby killers. And don't even say that's a lie because I have family that served there and they confirmed it. No Obama isn't hateful to Hispanics or blacks because he wanted their votes and still does for his party. The only ones he's hateful to are the whites. As far as showing documentation, I won't do your job for you. Just listen to his speeches and his remarks and you will see.


You make statements that are not true.

Not my job to provide documentation for your outrageous statements. He who makes the claim has the burden of proof. You have not provided any substantiation for your nonsense because you can't.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Problem is Green, the decisions some police make end up killing people and I think that would increase if more people chose to carry guns, concealed or not. The mere whiff of a gun on an innocent person would be enough for police to shoot without question as we've seen time and again in recent months. I think the only solution is for America is to toughen up on gun ownership and trade like my country has:
> 
> http://www.loc.gov/law/help/firearms-control/australia.php#Executive


You are correct, of course. I agree that we have serious problems with police brutality and unjustified killing. Not all police are guilty of this. The problem is very complex and needs to be addressed but there are many who think MORE guns are the answer. Incredible.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> One last comment, those who state that Obama hates America, lets "illegals" in, doesn't feel that Isis is a threat, has questioned his religion and nationality, etc., are toeing the faux news line. Faux news viewers and listeners are shown to be the LEAST factually informed than anyone, because the facts they hear are lies. Just because it is screamed loudly and often does not make it true. Use your heads, and Google.
> He has deported more illegals than any administration lately, we are using more air power against Isis than any other country, many many many people in this country deplore the proliferation of guns. Hateful towards whites, his family? Makes no sense.
> There is so much more but blind hatred doesn't allow the facts to be absorbed.


Well said. Blind hatred and misguided bias seems to be the rule rather than the exception.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

It is a GOOD thing, when needed. However, in the U.S.A. it is (as I feel) used as a threat to "keep unpopular ideas at bay". AKA you have independent ideas rather than democrat. 
quote=Furface]Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?[/quote]


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> It is a GOOD thing, when needed. However, in the U.S.A. it is (as I feel) used as a threat to "keep unpopular ideas at bay". AKA you have independent ideas rather than democrat.
> quote=Furface]Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?


[/quote]

Your post makes no sense. Please clarify.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpick1 said:


> I'm 68 years old and I'm disappointed at how my country America is being run by a president that won't admit to the danger of terrorists, doesn't control the borders, and in general has a laid back attitude about everything except fueling the fire of racism. We now have the most racist person as president I've ever seen. He ran on the promise of bringing the people together but instead he has done the opposite. I can't wait to see him out of our White House and hope the door slams after him. I also blame our courts for being too easy with criminals. Anymore it seems the criminals have more rights than the victims. And with peoples nerves being stressed almost to the breaking point here, especially the LEO's because of Ferguson, that 12 yr. old kids parents should have taught him to act more safely. That cop was in fear of his life. People like to throw stones at police but who do they call when they need help? That's right. Those cops have homes and families the same as anyone else. And I'm glad they're in our schools now. It's sad but now it's necessary. If someones kid gets murdered at school by someone who just walked in they would scream, where were the police. This world has so many crazy people that want to do us harm. I'm just glad we have the right to bear arms here to defend ourselves and our families. But if it were left up to our president we would all be disarmed and would all be victims to Communism. I love the English peoples stamina. They seem to be able to withstand anything that happens and keep a stiff upper lip and go on. They have an optimistic attitude. Sadly there is crime everywhere.


Well done, knitpick1!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

knitpick1 said:


> Thank you KnitCrazy for making the comment I was going to make. Gun laws don't really work. Look at Chicago. They have gun laws but have a lot of crime. I was in a grocery store here in Ohio and saw a man wearing a gun. Somehow I felt safer because in order for him to have a CC permit he had to go through a class and show he is responsible enough to carry one. My husband and his friends also had CC permits and I felt a lot safer whenever we took a trip away from home. Look what happened to that guard in England who was the victim of a terrorist attack on the street in broad daylight and had his head practically cut off. The guard wasn't armed and neither were any citizens. The terrorist had the nerve to hold up his bloody hands to the horror of everyone to see. If that happened here there's a good chance an armed citizen could have done something.


Now this Admin is trying to stop the production and selling of the most popular ammo to US citizens. I highly doubt it will happen, because the majority will fight for their rights as granted in The Constitution. In instances (cities/states) when citizens are armed more readily and possess legal arms, crime stats show less crimes and deaths.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Now this Admin is trying to stop the production and selling of the most popular ammo to US citizens. I highly doubt it will happen, because the majority will fight for their rights as granted in The Constitution. In instances (cities/states) when citizens are armed more readily and possess legal arms, crime stats show less crimes and deaths.


Absurd. Banning one type of ammunition is not the equivalent of banning firearms. By your logic, rational restrictions on possessing rocket launchers should be allowed. There must be resonable resrictions.

The proposed ban is intended to help protect police. Where's your love of the police here?


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

The Constitution is actually ambiguous as to gun rights for citizens,otherwise why is "militia" in the same sentence. However, even given the way many interpret it, it does not mean one should celebrate, brandish, and allow mentally incompetent people to have guns.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> One last comment, those who state that Obama hates America, lets "illegals" in, doesn't feel that Isis is a threat, has questioned his religion and nationality, etc., are toeing the faux news line. Faux news viewers and listeners are shown to be the LEAST factually informed than anyone, because the facts they hear are lies. Just because it is screamed loudly and often does not make it true. Use your heads, and Google.
> He has deported more illegals than any administration lately, we are using more air power against Isis than any other country, many many many people in this country deplore the proliferation of guns. Hateful towards whites, his family? Makes no sense.
> There is so much more but blind hatred doesn't allow the facts to be absorbed.


You are grossly ill-informed. I don't watch "Faux News" so you aren't speaking to me directly, but you need to dig deeper and stop toeing and repeating the Liberal Party line and talking points. Your statement is not true that Fox News watchers are the least informed because they hear lies. Look to MSNBC and actual stats to compare which channel issues the most apologies and untruths and which channel has the larger # of viewers, which network broadcasts both sides of the story and offers the most facts.

Obama has NOT deported more illegals than other Presidents - Obama has undermined ICE agents from deportations of the majority of illegal immigrants, has released criminal illegal aliens already in custody, and has changed the way illegal trafficking is counted and reported to make the stats APPEAR that his Admin's is deporting more illegals. Obama is deporting a significantly _smaller_ number of illegal immigrants than in recent times and even less than when Obama first took office. You should Google to get that factual information.

Of course, the USA is striking more at ISIS than any other country. Obama couldn't create a coalition of countries willing to join the USA and fight against ISIS. Bush created a coalition of 47-50 for his fight, Obama initially got nine states and none willing to fight. Last I heard, the count was down to four (Jordan, Bahrain, Saudia Arabia and United Arab Emirates). UAE recently defected, so now a non-willing coalition of three. Bravo Obama - that is Nobel Prize worthy. As is often the case, the USA is basically, with very few exceptions, on its own and expected to destroy ISIS. I'd settle for Obama to at least lead the world in taking the fight to ISIS, but Obama is a feckless leader and will not do anything to destroy ISIS with finality.

Jordan finally did perform airstrikes for two days on their own, but only after a Jordanian pilot was burned alive. Kudos to Jordan for standing to their best ability in defense of one of their own. Americans, Middle Easterners, Jews, Muslims and a majority of Christians have been and are being slaughtered and Obama will not give the order to destroy ISIS.

Obama has defied the advice of USA Military Personnel and Generals who are educated and trained and know how to defeat ISIS, not simply degrade ISIS, as is Obama's wish (whatever that means). USA military brass declared up to 500 air strikes a day with special units and leading squadrons on the ground are absolutely necessary to defeat ISIS. Yet, Obama allowed only 47 missile strikes on day one, and now we lob 5-15 missiles per day. The targets are mostly on tanks, Humvees, buildings, barracks, boats, gun shacks, ammo sites, etc., and barely scratch ISIS and its members. But don't take my word for it, Google the info of which you have no knowledge.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

GoodyTwoShoes said:


> This thread was interesting to read until the ugly personal attacks started. This is exactly why the world is what it is...people can't accept other people's differences.


My thoughts exactly, that's why I am "un-watching" it.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Lots of points - I disagree with every one.
> 
> Please provide proof, documentation, ANYTHING to show Obama wants to disarm anyone. (The Tea Party website doesn't count). I'm talking about actual statements by Obama, actual actions by Obama and exact quotes.
> 
> ...


No one is responsible for providing evidence to you. Listen to the news, read the news, and follow the actions of Obama. You are out of line in your attacks on others, but that's what liberals do instead of educating themselves. Look at Obama's disapproval numbers in national polls if you want to see how his actions disgust the people he rules like a king.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Lots of points - I disagree with every one.
> 
> Please provide proof, documentation, ANYTHING to show Obama wants to disarm anyone. (The Tea Party website doesn't count). I'm talking about actual statements by Obama, actual actions by Obama and exact quotes.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

knitpick1 said:


> Now I've said my piece and am going to move on to another topic as that's why I got on here in the first place. The bottom line is that everyone has an opinion. Not many agree with one another and that's what makes us unique. I'm not on here to argue but sometimes to state an opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree but it's interesting reading some of your comments.


It's just too bad when people can't be content with commenting on the topic instead of attacking each other.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> No one is responsible for providing evidence to you. Listen to the news, read the news, and follow the actions of Obama. You are out of line in your attacks on others, but that's what liberals do instead of educating themselves. Look at Obama's disapproval numbers in national polls if you want to see how his actions disgust the people he rules like a king.


You're right. You don't have to provide evidence of your claims. That just makes you look stupid and ill-informed because YOU can't provide proof.

Polls are OPINIONS. Provide facts for your statements. There's a big difference, but obviously you are not able to discern that.

Attack? Asking for facts isn't an attack. Providing factual evidence when making a claim is what intelligent people do.


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## misellen (Mar 8, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> It is a GOOD thing, when needed. However, in the U.S.A. it is (as I feel) used as a threat to "keep unpopular ideas at bay". AKA you have independent ideas rather than democrat.
> quote=Furface]Don't you think that a police presence can be a good thing when one needs it?


[/quote]

:?: :?: :?:


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

Over the years I've noticed the police have become (so it seems to me) much more military in behavior. But, riots, race issues, and the like were not as common as they have become in the last few years. Maybe people were dying during and after arrest just as much years ago as they are now, and I just never heard of it? I feel like citizens are being treated like enemies.


DGreen said:


> Your post makes no sense. Please clarify.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> They are trying to keep the facts straight. You state your OPINIONS as fact and you're consistently wrong.


You are performing as a troll on KP. State your foolish opinions. No one cares. Attacking me doesn't make you smarter or right in YOUR opinions.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Knitpresentgifts, you have presented very interesting facts on the fight against ISIL, I will look up more info, but my comment was towards those who think we are sitting around not doing anything. 
I don't watch MSNBC, Fox has a lot of cable viewers it is true, mostly like minded, but all the other channels together have a lot more people watching and getting divergent views of stories. I switch around to see what the stories are. 
We won't come to any final conclusions here.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Well said. Blind hatred and misguided bias seems to be the rule rather than the exception.


Sadly true.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

I SO agree with you Knit crazy. If you're not a liberal (sheeple) you're his enemy. I can live with that.



Knit crazy said:


> No one is responsible for providing evidence to you. Listen to the news, read the news, and follow the actions of Obama. You are out of line in your attacks on others, but that's what liberals do instead of educating themselves. Look at Obama's disapproval numbers in national polls if you want to see how his actions disgust the people he rules like a king.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Knitpresentgifts, you have presented very interesting facts on the fight against ISIL, I will look up more info, but my comment was towards those who think we are sitting around not doing anything.
> I don't watch MSNBC, Fox has a lot of cable viewers it is true, mostly like minded, but all the other channels together have a lot more people watching and getting divergent views of stories. I switch around to see what the stories are.
> We won't come to any final conclusions here.


Again, you are incorrect. Fox news has more viewers than the other channels combined (for the channels I'm considering). IMO, Obama is barely doing anything to fight ISIS, so perhaps you were talking to me after all.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> Over the years I've noticed the police have become (so it seems to me) much more military in behavior. But, riots, race issues, and the like were not as common as they have become in the last few years. Maybe people were dying during and after arrest just as much years ago as they are now, and I just never heard of it? I feel like citizens are being treated like enemies.


Thanks to cell phones recording such atrocities, we do hear more than we used to. The militarization of our police is definitely problematic.

Race issues have always been there. The "post-racial" America the Supreme Court refers to is a fantasy.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You are performing as a troll on KP. State your foolish opinions. No one cares. Attacking me doesn't make you smarter or right in YOUR opinions.


I notice DGreen continually demands you provide links and facts for your posts but doesn't hold herself to the same standards.

I don't do anyone's work for them, so it is a ridiculous argument to me anyway.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are performing as a troll on KP. State your foolish opinions. No one cares. Attacking me doesn't make you smarter or right in YOUR opinions.


At least I identify my opinions as such. Facts come with attribution and references. Do you know what those are?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> I SO agree with you Knit crazy. If you're not a liberal (sheeple) you're his enemy. I can live with that.


  I agree with Knit Crazy as well. :thumbup:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Now this Admin is trying to stop the production and selling of the most popular ammo to US citizens. I highly doubt it will happen, because the majority will fight for their rights as granted in The Constitution. In instances (cities/states) when citizens are armed more readily and possess legal arms, crime stats show less crimes and deaths.


You are so right. However, a bill was introduced this week to thwart the ammo ban. Quoting The Hill:

"The ATF backed down last week from a plan to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing 5.56mm projectiles for M855 cartridges commonly used in AR-15 hunting rifles  but would not rule out any future restrictions on these bullets.

The Ammunition and Firearms Protection Act introduced Monday by Rep. Patrick McHenry (R-N.C.) would ensure that ammunition intended, marketed, and sold for rifle use is protected from the ATFs grip.

Republicans accuse the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."

Obama is sneaky. He uses subterfuge in everything he does because few Americans agree with his tactics and vision. Few believe anything he says. Personally, I turn off the TV when he speaks. He is a national embarrassment. Look at what his administration has done in Israel. His State Department is working behind the scenes to unseat Netayahu from power, and they used my tax money to do it. Obama is disgusting.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are so right. However, a bill was introduced this week to thwart the ammo ban. Quoting The Hill:
> 
> "The ATF backed down last week from a plan to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing 5.56mm projectiles for M855 cartridges commonly used in AR-15 hunting rifles  but would not rule out any future restrictions on these bullets.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> At least I identify my opinions as such. Facts come with attribution and references. Do you know what those are?


I know facts. You just wouldn't listen to them, and you'd have to be deaf, dumb and blind to need me to attribute everything I say. You hide from what is happening in the U.S. and the world because it doesn't support your leftist view of the world. It isn't my job to educate you. It's your job. Wake up and smell the coffee!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You are so right. However, a bill was introduced this week to thwart the ammo ban. Quoting The Hill:
> 
> "The ATF backed down last week from a plan to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing 5.56mm projectiles for M855 cartridges commonly used in AR-15 hunting rifles  but would not rule out any future restrictions on these bullets.
> 
> ...


Yes, yes, and yes! I want to not listen, but I do because I want to know what my enemy is up to and planning. Obama is an embarrassment, and I'm disgusted that exactly like Planned Parenthood receiving tax $ to perform abortions, American tax funds were given illegally and funneled to trying to defeat Netanyahu in his election today. Disgusting is RIGHT!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Freesia, your avatar is so adorable. I keep looking at it and smiling. :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Knitpresentgifts, you have presented very interesting facts on the fight against ISIL, I will look up more info, but my comment was towards those who think we are sitting around not doing anything.
> I don't watch MSNBC, Fox has a lot of cable viewers it is true, mostly like minded, but all the other channels together have a lot more people watching and getting divergent views of stories. I switch around to see what the stories are.
> We won't come to any final conclusions here.


Here are the facts on viewers as of March 15, 2015: Fox News has more than the other stations combined for "Primetime" viewing, as I stated prior, and are only 4.8% shy of total dominance in "Total Day" viewers as compared to all other cable programs combined as shown in the comparison below.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are so right. However, a bill was introduced this week to thwart the ammo ban. Quoting The Hill:
> 
> "The ATF backed down last week from a plan to prohibit gun companies from manufacturing 5.56mm projectiles for M855 cartridges commonly used in AR-15 hunting rifles  but would not rule out any future restrictions on these bullets.
> 
> ...


Republicans *accuse* the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."

Note the word "accuse."

No facts there, just accusations. Assumptions. Predictions. Actual bills, statements, quotations? Nada. You DO know the difference between an accusation and a fact, don't you? If not, please let me know and I and others here will be glad to educate you. It's a simple concept.

No proof that Obama is trying to unseat your precious Netanyahu. "Behind the scenes." If there were an ounce of truth, you could come up with proof of actions, statements, something. This is OPINION, nothing more - that's why it's a secret that only you are privy to. The word "accusation" again comes to mind. I call BS.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yes, yes, and yes! I want to not listen, but I do because I want to know what my enemy is up to and planning. Obama is an embarrassment, and I'm disgusted that exactly like Planned Parenthood receiving tax $ to perform abortions, American tax funds were given illegally and funneled to trying to defeat Netanyahu in his election today. Disgusting is RIGHT!


I don't listen because he is a LIAR. Over and over again, he has been proven a liar. When there is no direct proof, I still don't believe him because he says illogical things. His "I heard about it in the news" response is so blatantly untrue that no proof is needed. He is a narcissist. He seems to think everything is always about him and he is always right. Fortunately, Americans with a sense of history and with common sense know lies when they hear them. His liberal supporters pretend to believe his lies and the nonsense his administration puts out. Even more fortunately, most of his liberal actions will be rolled back in 2 years. We have the liberal supporters to thank for 8 years of destruction of American wealth and status in the world.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Republicans *accuse* the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."
> 
> Note the word "accuse."
> 
> No facts there, just accusations. Assumptions. Predictions. Actual bills, statements, quotations? Nada. You DO know the difference between an accusation and a fact, don't you? If not, please let me know and I and others here will be glad to educate you. It's a simple concept.


DGreen, I suggest you learn how to gather the facts, listen, read and hear opposing news and opinions of pundits and stop accusing everyone else for stating only opinions which is precisely what you do.

Here is ONE example, *an actual letter*, dated Feb 27, 2015, or thereabout, by the Republican Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep Bob Goodlatte, against the abrupt action by Obama and his cronies to stop the production of one of the most used arms and ammo and impose Obama's ideals of gun control. I believe 30 members have co-signed, and an expected 100 members will ultimately sign the letter if they haven't already delivered it over their signatures.

Obama first tried to ban the ammo by Legislative action which failed, so now he has imposed a ban by Executive Order.

Learn something and educate yourself, Diane. As you just said, it's a simple concept;
https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1677223/ap-ammo-ltr-to-director-jones.pdf


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Republicans *accuse* the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."
> 
> Note the word "accuse."
> 
> ...


You are blind, truly blinded by your liberal bias.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

Thank you so much Knitpresentgifts!


knitpresentgifts said:


> Freesia, your avatar is so adorable. I keep looking at it and smiling. :-D


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here are the facts on viewers as of March 15, 2015: Fox News has more than the other stations combined for "Primetime" viewing, as I stated prior, and are only 4.8% shy of total dominance in "Total Day" viewers as compared to all other cable programs combined as shown in the comparison below.


Thanks for these statistics, but I wasn't talking about prime time, I was talking about network news plus those cable channels.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> Thank you so much Knitpresentgifts!


You're welcome, but it is you who brought a smile to my face. Please call me KPG, much easier to type.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Thanks for these statistics, but I wasn't talking about prime time, I was talking about network news plus those cable channels.


You're welcome, but any stat would clearly show Fox News reigns.

Why you'd insist on a comparison of one production (Fox News) to ALL other networks and cable channels is beyond my understanding.


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## jangmb (Oct 27, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Republicans *accuse* the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."........
> 
> ...Actual bills, statements, quotations? Nada.


Of course, no bill was introduced for this --- this is just one of the MANY thousands of codes/administrative rules procedures, regulations with accompanying fines put in place since the first of this year. ATF administration knows full good and well this would be just one more step that would not get congressional approval.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Thanks for these statistics, but I wasn't talking about prime time, I was talking about network news plus those cable channels.


Prime time news is basically the nightly news programs. It includes network news programs. It's funny, but I think people are interested in news, but those with only a few options, such as the basic channels believe what they hear there. If all you had was MSNBC, the lowest rated news organization, people would believe that dribble. If you have many options, you can surf and find the truth by listening to many channels. If you are a Millenial, you don't get any news from noted and respected news sources. You get it on the Internet. It's no surprise, I guess, that most Millenials are uninterested in politics and are "low information" voters. They trend toward politicians who are personalities with little experience, like Obama.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

jangmb said:


> Of course, no bill was introduced for this --- this is just one of the MANY thousands of codes/administrative rules procedures, regulations with accompanying fines put in place since the first of this year. ATF administration knows full good and well this would be just one more step that would not get congressional approval.


A bill was introduced yesterday. Read about it.

http://thehill.com/regulation/legislation/235837-gun-bill-would-shoot-down-controversial-bullet-ban


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You're welcome, but any stat would clearly show Fox News reigns.
> 
> Why you'd insist on a comparison of one production (Fox News) to ALL other networks and cable channels is beyond my understanding.


Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself. 
The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings. 
Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont. 
So most people 24 million, want facts.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


I won't argue with your opinion, but you are wrong on the facts. The facts support that Fox News is the most watched and most trusted for delivering the NEWS. Fox also has correspondents and journalists that broadcast only the NEWS along with pundits on both sides who give their political opinions. Opinions can be seen on CNN and MSNBC and entertainment shows like The View.

The facts show those who seek the facts and news, the majority, are watching Fox.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I don't listen because he is a LIAR. Over and over again, he has been proven a liar. When there is no direct proof, I still don't believe him because he says illogical things. His "I heard about it in the news" response is so blatantly untrue that no proof is needed. He is a narcissist. He seems to think everything is always about him and he is always right. Fortunately, Americans with a sense of history and with common sense know lies when they hear them. His liberal supporters pretend to believe his lies and the nonsense his administration puts out. Even more fortunately, most of his liberal actions will be rolled back in 2 years. We have the liberal supporters to thank for 8 years of destruction of American wealth and status in the world.


I see. You evidently don't know the difference between accusations and truth and aren't interested in learning the difference.

You have stated your OPINION. Which you have a right to do. Just don't state what you say as fact when it isn't. It's a matter of credibility KC.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


Thank you, Beth.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are blind, truly blinded by your liberal bias.


I fail to see how challenging you to provide proof is a bias. Present facts and I'll consider changing my mind. Again, an easy concept to understand but instead you are hiding behind what you no doubt consider an insult. YOU made the claim without any evidence to back it up. Put your money where your mouth is if you want to be taken seriously.

By the way, if you were open minded, you would be seeking proof and evidence, too. Do you do that or just buy whatver you hear on Fox? I sure don't automatically believe everything I hear or read - no matter the source.


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I won't argue with your opinion, but you are wrong on the facts. The facts support that Fox News is the most watched and most trusted for delivering the NEWS. Fox also has correspondents and journalists that broadcast only the NEWS along with pundits on both sides who give their political opinions. Opinions can be seen on CNN and MSNBC and entertainment shows like The View.
> 
> The facts show those who seek the facts and news, the majority, are watching Fox.


 :thumbup: MSNBC and the like are more like tabloids. No real news. Personally, I like "The Onion" :-D


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> :thumbup: MSNBC and the like are more like tabloids. No real news. Personally, I like "The Onion" :-D


I cannot watch MSNBC, tried, and failed. I occasionally read The Onion as it is entertaining. Soon, no one will be able to watch MCNBC as its ratings are in the tank and falling rapidly.

I don't watch CNN at all but hear they aren't doing so well either.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I don't listen because he is a LIAR. Over and over again, he has been proven a liar. When there is no direct proof, I still don't believe him because he says illogical things. His "I heard about it in the news" response is so blatantly untrue that no proof is needed. He is a narcissist. He seems to think everything is always about him and he is always right. Fortunately, Americans with a sense of history and with common sense know lies when they hear them. His liberal supporters pretend to believe his lies and the nonsense his administration puts out. Even more fortunately, most of his liberal actions will be rolled back in 2 years. We have the liberal supporters to thank for 8 years of destruction of American wealth and status in the world.


100% pure opinion. You really need to preface your statements with "I think" or "in my opinion" or other qualifier. Otherwise, you are, by definition, making factual statements. Even you must recognize that without supporting FACTS, what you claim is nothing more than accusations, suppositions, opinions, deductions, assumptions...need I go on?

You also don't even bother to enlighten us as to what specific lies you claim he told and make sweeping statements about what liberals "pretend" to do. How do you know this?

(whispering) did god tell you?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


CBS didn't even hit 7 million last week. Please stick to the facts.


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I see. You evidently don't know the difference between accusations and truth and aren't interested in learning the difference.
> 
> You have stated your OPINION. Which you have a right to do. Just don't state what you say as fact when it isn't. It's a matter of credibility KC.


I have stated a fact. Obama is a liar. Check them out.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/


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## ummirain (Feb 1, 2013)

Agree it is very depressing,the gun use in America,and mentality behind it.
This beautiful land is filled with hatred,resentment,intolerance.
I am well-traveled,and have found Brits to be more gentle,funnier,and if I were younger,would be an ex pat in England.
As far as people crossing "our" borders....2 of them are sweating in the Florida sun mowing our community commons,trimming our trees,and hauling trash.
I'm going out there to bring them a pitcher of ice cold lemonade.
You have a nice day.


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## Katia (Nov 1, 2011)

It's true...everyone has a right to their opinion. ALL right already. This prez is a sorta nice guy who does nothing; LAST prez was a sorts nice guy who did nothing. IWEEDLEDUM AND TWEEDLEDUM! We should work on getting someone who can do the job! But those who can, have enogh sense to stay away from it!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> I have stated a fact. Obama is a liar. Check them out.
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/


Hooray! You finally came up with something to justify your belief that Obama has lied.

Specifics are good. People can respect you for having an opinion backed up by evidence. It's when you state unsubstantiated generalities that people are right to challenge you. Now, what about what liberals "pretend" to believe...?


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

DGreen, here's one for you - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/lies-end-now-most-transparent-administration-ever-no-more-white-house-delete-its-foi

This was easy to find. You should have no trouble to find your own information - if you actually want it. I think that's the problem. Most people do not want to hear or believe that they were wrong. I do have a couple of friends on FB that were die-hard liberals. Not anymore. They have come to recognize they are being lied to. Liberals aren't stupid. Just brain washed. I'm very pleased my friends were able to see the light. They want impeachment of obama more than I do now. They bought into the lies and really feel cheated.



DGreen said:


> 100% pure opinion. You really need to preface your statements with "I think" or "in my opinion" or other qualifier. Otherwise, you are, by definition, making factual statements. Even you must recognize that without supporting FACTS, what you claim is nothing more than accusations, suppositions, opinions, deductions, assumptions...need I go on?
> 
> You also don't even bother to enlighten us as to what specific lies you claim he told and make sweeping statements about what liberals "pretend" to do. How do you know this?
> 
> (whispering) did god tell you?


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> Andy you can do your own research by googling 25% of illegal aliens previously deported. I hope you read all the articles. The stats are dependent on the year referenced, but many stats about crime and illegals show much higher numbers. The 25% that I referenced has been quoted many times in US news. I suspect it is a compiled ratio.


So your answer is that I need to find verification for your comments???

Why??

I actually looked, and what you said is simply not true in the slightest by the way....in fact, illegals are FAR less likely to get into trouble as they are illegal and could be deported....which they don't want to happen!!

Thanks anyway, now I know the real truth.

Andy


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> DGreen, here's one for you - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-03-16/lies-end-now-most-transparent-administration-ever-no-more-white-house-delete-its-foi
> 
> This was easy to find. You should have no trouble to find your own information - if you actually want it. I think that's the problem. Most people do not want to hear or believe that they were wrong. I do have a couple of friends on FB that were die-hard liberals. Not anymore. They have come to recognize they are being lied to. Liberals aren't stupid. Just brain washed. I'm very pleased my friends were able to see the light. They want impeachment of obama more than I do now. They bought into the lies and really feel cheated.


I'm not brainwashed. I do not believe everything I hear, and I have been very critical of Obama on any number of issues. Impeachment? So we could have Biden, who would then be impeached? So we could have Boehner??

I'm proud to be a liberal. I will fight the current conservative agenda with my last breath. You might as well try to convince this atheist to become a born again christian as a republican.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Andy - look at the GAO (Government Accountability Office) or U.S. Immigration Office or FBI Crime Stats.
> 
> All will confirm what has been posted. In fact, you'll find the percentages indicated in the reports higher than 25%.
> 
> Also, considering the reports are probably not up-to-date, the last report I read was through 2005, and illegal immigration has increased drastically in the past five years and specifically under the Obama Admin who has released or not imprisoned all illegal criminals as previously done, and prisons do have not enough room and ICE agents have been repressed to follow the standing laws and have been ordered to release illegal aliens. Meanwhile understand all state and local prisons and jail are not included in the reports, and all illegal criminals are not imprisoned or detained, and you should have no problem understanding the 25% is a conservative estimate.


I looked, most are locked in some way and do not open.

The only one that did open only talks of estimates, not facts. That was this one and you can see for your self:-

http://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-11-187

So basically I am no wiser......

I did find a few "White Supremacist" Websites, they were simply all "off the clock!" Not even worth looking at.....

Thansk anyway

Andy


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> I looked, most are locked in some way and do not open.
> 
> The only one that did open only talks of estimates, not facts. That was this one and you can see for your self:-
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Hooray! You finally came up with something to justify your belief that Obama has lied.
> 
> Specifics are good. People can respect you for having an opinion backed up by evidence. It's when you state unsubstantiated generalities that people are right to challenge you. Now, what about what liberals "pretend" to believe...?


You can find facts aligned with what I said too. But, you think you can avoid the work and have another do it. Typical.


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

DGreen said:


> 100% pure opinion. You really need to preface your statements with "I think" or "in my opinion" or other qualifier. Otherwise, you are, by definition, making factual statements. Even you must recognize that without supporting FACTS, what you claim is nothing more than accusations, suppositions, opinions, deductions, assumptions...need I go on?
> 
> You also don't even bother to enlighten us as to what specific lies you claim he told and make sweeping statements about what liberals "pretend" to do. How do you know this?
> 
> (whispering) did god tell you?


You want a list of the lies Obama has told? How about this?


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

http://www.infowars.com/252-documented-examples-of-barack-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption-cronyism-etc/
I was going to copy this but 252 documented examples of lies would take up to many pages.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You can find facts aligned with what I said too. But, you think you can avoid the work and have another do it. Typical.


Typical, indeed. You make wild statements and expect people to believe them because you said so.

Again, those making the claim have the burden of proof, not the listener.

Look up "Logical fallacies" for pointers on what to avoid when trying to make a convincing argument. Very educational.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> I looked, most are locked in some way and do not open.
> 
> The only one that did open only talks of estimates, not facts. That was this one and you can see for your self:-
> 
> ...


Andy, you're doing something wrong. The GAO, Homeland Security, Immigration, FBI, Bureau of Statistics, etc., sites are all public and no passwords or logins necessary. All show stats, figures and facts not simply estimates as you claim.

I won't be responding or assisting you again because you continue to post unnecessary racist and ugly biased insults to others.

I have no desire to engage with anyone who does same.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> http://www.infowars.com/252-documented-examples-of-barack-obamas-lying-lawbreaking-corruption-cronyism-etc/
> I was going to copy this but 252 documented examples of lies would take up to many pages.


Alex Jones? Conspiracy-tinted site containing strong opposition to socialism, communism, and the New World Order.

Scanned through a bit of the article and much of the COMMENTARY is out of context and severely biased. Go ahead and believe it if you want.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knit crazy said:


> You can find facts aligned with what I said too. But, you think you can avoid the work and have another do it. Typical.


It's obvious, Knit Crazy, DGreen doesn't want facts or discussion. She is only interested in insulting, demeaning and bullying others into submission and to her ideals.

What facts has she offered? None. All I read are insults, name calling and disgusting and condescending comments to those who believe and think differently than she does.

I've given proof, you gave proof as did others, I've done so in the past, and in her regular fashion, all Green did was prod you with more insults rather than acknowledge and discuss the facts presented. Oh, and change the subject and tell us how pitiful we all are.

Not worth the time or efforts; who respects her, I don't.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It's obvious, Knit Crazy, DGreen doesn't want facts or discussion. She is only interested in insulting, demeaning and bullying others into submission and to her ideals.
> 
> What facts has she offered? None. All I read are insults, name calling and disgusting and condescending comments to those who believe and thing differently than she does.
> 
> ...


I didn't state any facts whatsoever. I made no claims. KC is the one who made the claims then has refused to back them up - except for the fact that Obama has lied. I never said he didn't - I asked for documented specifics. KC made a lot of claims then went into hiding by saying "look it up yourself." Childish and worthy of being called out.

Can't discuss FACTS until some are presented. Opinions are not facts.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Auntiesue said:


> Just a little history...America has a Constitution which protects the RIGHT for its citizens to bear arms. There are reasons our founders placed this RIGHT near the top of the list. Reason one was to protect its citizens from its government! Remember at that time ENGLAND was forcing citizens to pay horrible taxes enforced with fire power. That was the primary reason but a close second was the fact that we were settling a very raw land mass. Folks needed to eat and protect themselves. This right in the US is considered part of "natures law". The right to protect yourself is universal. This is our birthright. This is our history unlike other countries. Respect that right! Cherish it as there are those who wish to remove that right under the assumption killings will stop. Unarm America and horrible things will happen. There are those that wish to "transform" America.


I hear you,but its still the problem!!!

Thats what this law means in 2015. It was a good idea in the 18th Century.....

Which is why on national per capita levels,the murder rates in the USA are down with the third world countries.....nearly 5 x the UK rate for example....

I am sure that if all gun owners had to pass a medical, all guns HAD to be licensed, and possessing an illegal firearm was an automatic prison sentence, the USA could reduce the murder rate dramatically.....

The USA sits between the Yemen and Niger in gun murder per capita...List of countries by intentional homicide rate......

See here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

At this site, only gun deaths are noted:-

List of countries by firearm-related death rate

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

With regard to deaths with firearms,the UK rate is 0.25 and the USA is 10.3. Thats more that 40 times more gun deaths!!!!

The USA sits between Argentina and Mexico!!!!

So the murder rate is far higher than the UK and the gun related death is in comparison extremely high in comparison.

I actually don't believe that there is a way out of the predicament the USA (and some other countries) are in with regard to gun crime.....and the tendency is on average, getting worse....

No wonder many simply buy guns and hope to protect their families....

Best regards

Andy


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I didn't state any facts whatsoever. I made no claims. KC is the one who made the claims then has refused to back them up - except for the fact that Obama has lied. I never said he didn't - I asked for documented specifics. KC made a lot of claims then went into hiding by saying "look it up yourself." Childish and worthy of being called out.
> 
> Can't discuss FACTS until some are presented. Opinions are not facts.


YOU are the child and bully. You do nothing but incite others, insult and call them out, and when challenged change your tune.

You offer nothing but disrespect, dissension and stupid comments and insults.

No wonder not many wish to engage or respond to you. You constantly scream for facts and docs/links and don't provide them yourself. Typical Liberal hypocrite.

BTW: you're not entitled for those who post and participate in the thread to prove or post anything because you think they should. After all, everything everyone writes is either their opinion, based on their education, thoughts, experiences, and views so no one needs to state otherwise, or they are quoting another and should give notice if they are doing so. No one is required to educate you or do your work for you.

Go pick on the Libs who like to tear down others as you do.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> YOU are the child and bully. You do nothing but incite others, insult and call them out, and when challenged change your tune.
> 
> You offer nothing but disrespect, dissension and stupid comments and insults.
> 
> ...


A classic KPG rant. KC can defend herself or not without you.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> A classic KPG rant. KC can defend herself or not without you.


A typical ludicrous statement from DGreen. Everyone can defend herself against your stupidity, it's simple actually. I never mentioned KC and she doesn't need me to defend her.

PROVE YOUR OPINIONS delivered as fact, Diane, like you scream for in angry ignorant rants in every other post you write.

.... back to ignoring your posts ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> One last comment, those who state that Obama hates America, lets "illegals" in, doesn't feel that Isis is a threat, has questioned his religion and nationality, etc., are toeing the faux news line. Faux news viewers and listeners are shown to be the LEAST factually informed than anyone, because the facts they hear are lies. Just because it is screamed loudly and often does not make it true. Use your heads, and Google.
> He has deported more illegals than any administration lately, we are using more air power against Isis than any other country, many many many people in this country deplore the proliferation of guns. Hateful towards whites, his family? Makes no sense.
> There is so much more but blind hatred doesn't allow the facts to be absorbed.


The amount of illegals this administration has deported means nothing if they just turn around and reenter the country because the border is not secure. Using air power against ISIS isn't going to do the job. It does, however, manage to kill many innocent people. ISIS is constantly on the move thus eliminating killing many of them.

If you want to know what Obama is about, listen to his speeches. He has no problem telling what he plans to do, what his views are and especially how he wants to transform this country. Do note that the MSM is not the place to get factual news reports either. The MSM will do and say whatever it takes to make Obama look good. They do the spin dance extremely well.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So what are you relying on? The DOJ has cleared Daren Wilson and has confirmed that every thing he said was correct and backed by forensic evidence and reliable witnesses. The racists will never believe the evidence. Now the DOJ is going after the police department.
> 
> If "Black Lives Matter," why aren't they concerned about the 500 + black babies that have been murdered in Missouri since the shooting?


I don't believe damemary has heard or read the DOJ's final report re Officer Wilson. As you stated, Wilson was cleared from all accusations and lost his job and ultimately livelihood and enjoyment of his life and reputation because of the lies put upon him by those in Ferguson, the local media, Brown's stepfather and the likes of Sharptons. Today, after several investigations, most will not accept the facts that Officer Wilson did nothing wrong, racist in intent, or anything other than the job he was trained and paid to do. Wilson did everything correctly.

I acknowledge that the report also has shown problems and racial tensions exist within the Ferguson PD, but, again, those problems were not in any way those of Wilson.

I feel for the residents and particularly the business owners in Ferguson. They have taken risks to possess or rent locations in town and to offer goods and services to the community. Now, after three times being looted, fired upon, attacks and destruction of their rebuilt businesses, why would any resident and especially business owner, wish to stay?

Already, the housing market is taking a hit, goods and services will diminish and the downward spiral which has already begun will continue.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A typical ludicrous statement from DGreen. Everyone can defend herself against your stupidity, it's simple actually. I never mentioned KC and she doesn't need me to defend her.
> 
> PROVE YOUR OPINIONS delivered as fact, Diane, like you scream for in angry ignorant rants in every other post you write.
> 
> .... back to ignoring your posts ...


Which ones? Be specific.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> The Constitution is actually ambiguous as to gun rights for citizens,otherwise why is "militia" in the same sentence. However, even given the way many interpret it, it does not mean one should celebrate, brandish, and allow mentally incompetent people to have guns.


That is the reason for the background checks and all the paperwork associated with buying a gun from a reputable business. The ones you need to worry about are the ones that buy their guns from the street vendors or steal them from the homes they burgle or take them off of their victims. These are the people that have no regard for the law and most likely fit your description of mentally incompetent.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> You make statements that are not true.
> 
> Not my job to provide documentation for your outrageous statements. He who makes the claim has the burden of proof. You have not provided any substantiation for your nonsense because you can't.


I'm with you on that DG.

What we must do is to completely ignore all posts without online or some other proof.

Remember Judge Judy, its simply "Hearsay", which means "not valid...."

Have a good one.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> No one is responsible for providing evidence to you. Listen to the news, read the news, and follow the actions of Obama. You are out of line in your attacks on others, but that's what liberals do instead of educating themselves. Look at Obama's disapproval numbers in national polls if you want to see how his actions disgust the people he rules like a king.


So Obarma was voted in a second time by a majority of folks in the USA.

WOW!!

How did that happen?

Will he get a third term?

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> I'm with you on that DG.
> 
> What we must do is to completely ignore all posts without online or some other proof.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Andy. I'm ready to unwatch this thread, which is deteriorating rapidly into the chaos of irrationality on the part of some, who think questioning the validity of statements against Obama (or any other entity or person) is vicious. I think I'll leave them alone to feel superior and smart.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> So Obarma was voted in a second time by a majority of folks in the USA.
> 
> WOW!!
> 
> ...


Careful, Andy. The extreme right has been claiming that Obama is planning an illegal third term for some time now. There is no shortage of theories on how he plans to do this. Like many "facts" fabricated by the Tea Party, many on this site are devout believers. Don't encourage them!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

misellen said:


> It's just too bad when people can't be content with commenting on the topic instead of attacking each other.


You are right, completely so.

The only way such people can argument, is to simply repeat and repeat untrue statements and be rude.....

Anyone with REAL and ACCURATE FACTUAL knowledge, does not need to sink to such "mud throwing".....Instead they post links to show the true facts, but either the ignorant don't bother to read them, or cannot understand them.....it makes no difference either way....the end result is the same! Ignorance.

But they in fact don't realise that they are ignorant! They believe they know everything.....when they actually know nothing..

A German saying I favour because it fits so well in such situations is:-

" Those who know nothing, believe a lot!"

There are many "mud throwers" here who forget that it also makes your own hands dirty!!!

Regards

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> You're right. You don't have to provide evidence of your claims. That just makes you look stupid and ill-informed because YOU can't provide proof.
> 
> Polls are OPINIONS. Provide facts for your statements. There's a big difference, but obviously you are not able to discern that.
> 
> Attack? Asking for facts isn't an attack. Providing factual evidence when making a claim is what intelligent people do.


God post.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> You are performing as a troll on KP. State your foolish opinions. No one cares.  Attacking me doesn't make you smarter or right in YOUR opinions.


Actually, it does!!

Andy


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I cannot watch MSNBC, tried, and failed. I occasionally read The Onion as it is entertaining. Soon, no one will be able to watch MCNBC as its ratings are in the tank and falling rapidly.
> 
> I don't watch CNN at all but hear they aren't doing so well either.


Over the last 2 years CNN has been turning away from news programs and adding more "entertainment" type shows. I would say they are in some kind of limbo trying to find a new home. It's only a matter of time before MSNBC gets pulled from the air. They have tried to reorganize, but it's not working for them.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Republicans *accuse* the ATF of thwarting the Second Amendment in a backdoor attempt to restrict the use of certain guns by banning popular ammunition."
> 
> Note the word "accuse."
> 
> ...


Right on Brother!

Andy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Anyone with REAL and ACCURATE FACTUAL knowledge, does not need to sink to such *"mud throwing".....Instead they post links to show the true facts, but either the ignorant don't bother to read them, or cannot understand them.....it makes no difference either way....the end result is the same! Ignorance.*
> 
> But they in fact don't realise that they are ignorant! They believe they know everything.....when they actually know nothing..
> 
> Andy





der_fisherman said:


> They won't make you popular with the white supremacists here though.....and there are plenty of them. Andy


This quote immediately above was posted by der_fisherman (Andy) without any link.

So which person are you Andy? "Didn't bother to read or cannot understand?" Or is it you don't recognize your own ignorant, mud-slinging and rude comments?

btw; rhetorical question - "as it makes no difference either way." As you stated, "the end result is the same = Ignorance!"


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> DGreen, I suggest you learn how to gather the facts, listen, read and hear opposing news and opinions of pundits and stop accusing everyone else for stating only opinions which is precisely what you do.
> 
> Here is ONE example, *an actual letter*, dated Feb 27, 2015, or thereabout, by the Republican Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, Rep Bob Goodlatte, against the abrupt action by Obama and his cronies to stop the production of one of the most used arms and ammo and impose Obama's ideals of gun control. I believe 30 members have co-signed, and an expected 100 members will ultimately sign the letter if they haven't already delivered it over their signatures.
> 
> ...


What a surprise, your link does not work.

Could you post one that works please? I am interested.

I did try removing the "s", but it did not help.

regards

Andy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> What a surprise, your link does not work.
> 
> Could you post one that works please? I am interested.
> 
> ...


What a surprise - you don't know how to make a link work even though you've claimed to be some kind of computer geek on another thread.

The link I posted works, Andy.

Don't remove the s as it won't work then, hence why I didn't remove the s when I posted the link.

Copy and paste the entire link into your browser's open field. This is the last I'll assist you because you cannot speak to me without insults.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> I see. You evidently don't know the difference between accusations and truth and aren't interested in learning the difference.
> 
> You have stated your OPINION. Which you have a right to do. Just don't state what you say as fact when it isn't. It's a matter of credibility KC.


Right again.

Andy


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Over the last 2 years CNN has been turning away from news programs and adding more "entertainment" type shows. I would say they are in some kind of limbo trying to find a new home. It's only a matter of time before MSNBC gets pulled from the air. They have tried to reorganize, but it's not working for them.


I've heard that as well. CNN stays on a story ad nauseam, reports junk news and worthless tripe. When the Malaysian Air plane went down, they got so much wrong according to what I heard elsewhere.

MSNBC - what can I say except good riddance!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

BethP0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


Well and accurately put. But "they" won't like it!!!

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> I fail to see how challenging you to provide proof is a bias. Present facts and I'll consider changing my mind. Again, an easy concept to understand but instead you are hiding behind what you no doubt consider an insult. YOU made the claim without any evidence to back it up. Put your money where your mouth is if you want to be taken seriously.
> 
> By the way, if you were open minded, you would be seeking proof and evidence, too. Do you do that or just buy whatver you hear on Fox? I sure don't automatically believe everything I hear or read - no matter the source.


Neither does any fair minded person.

Many here are not fair minded.....

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> 100% pure opinion. You really need to preface your statements with "I think" or "in my opinion" or other qualifier. Otherwise, you are, by definition, making factual statements. Even you must recognize that without supporting FACTS, what you claim is nothing more than accusations, suppositions, opinions, deductions, assumptions...need I go on?
> 
> You also don't even bother to enlighten us as to what specific lies you claim he told and make sweeping statements about what liberals "pretend" to do. How do you know this?
> 
> (whispering) did god tell you?


LOL!!

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> I have stated a fact. Obama is a liar. Check them out.
> 
> http://www.politifact.com/personalities/barack-obama/statements/byruling/false/


That is not exactly a useful web site. I am pretty sure some of the claims are correct (politicians, anyone who thinks differently about them is welcome!), but surely to make things more clear, they would place a link or similar for each item to where this can be checked out?

Just saying it is so, is what some people here do.....no proof whatsoever....

I could have placed such a website online myself, saying the exact opposite to that website, with the same amount (lack) of verification and who then could tell the facts from the facts????    

Such websites as this, I look at occasionally but really, they just make me very skeptical....I need to eat a pound of salt each time I read such "news", very unhealthy. ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)

Surely most of these "items" are on YouTube or similar, a link or two there would have proved quite useful I feel......

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Andy, you're doing something wrong. The GAO, Homeland Security, Immigration, FBI, Bureau of Statistics, etc., sites are all public and no passwords or logins necessary. All show stats, figures and facts not simply estimates as you claim.
> 
> I won't be responding or assisting you again because you continue to post unnecessary racist and ugly biased insults to others.
> 
> I have no desire to engage with anyone who does same.


Please be so kind as to quote the post that I made that is racist or ugly biased insults. Anyone less racist than I am you have never ever seen!

I can be very critical to the liars here.....I am not alone.

For example, if thats what you don't like, get on the case of the people here who call others "Trolls" because they have been asked a question they cannot answer!!!

By the way, I tried opening all the links, I did the same for each, the links just "hung" except for the one I mentioned.

Maybe they are running backups, or whatever....no idea....

As you can see for yourself on the one that did open, the facts are all only estimates......Not what I was looking for....

Thanks for trying

Andy


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Typical, indeed. You make wild statements and expect people to believe them because you said so.
> 
> Again, those making the claim have the burden of proof, not the listener.
> 
> Look up "Logical fallacies" for pointers on what to avoid when trying to make a convincing argument. Very educational.


You are the person who lacks logic and facts. I haven't seen any documented sources for your position. I have reported what is in the news and have provided more support for my position than you could. There is no factual support for believing Obama is truthful, or that his policies are working, or that crime in large cities is reduced since he took office, or that illegal aliens haven't brought disease, crime and an economic burden to citizens of the U.S. You won't find any support for your premises, which is why you aren't offering it.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It's obvious, Knit Crazy, DGreen doesn't want facts or discussion. She is only interested in insulting, demeaning and bullying others into submission and to her ideals.
> 
> What facts has she offered? None. All I read are insults, name calling and disgusting and condescending comments to those who believe and think differently than she does.
> 
> ...


I have not noticed DGreen doing any of those things that you accuse, please post the exact post(s) and help me to look back. I cannot find them....

I find him/her to be very restrained and intelligent in their posts. Easy to follow.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, Andy. I'm ready to unwatch this thread, which is deteriorating rapidly into the chaos of irrationality on the part of some, who think questioning the validity of statements against Obama (or any other entity or person) is vicious. I think I'll leave them alone to feel superior and smart.


Tell me when you leave the crazy house here!!    

Regards

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Careful, Andy. The extreme right has been claiming that Obama is planning an illegal third term for some time now. There is no shortage of theories on how he plans to do this. Like many "facts" fabricated by the Tea Party, many on this site are devout believers. Don't encourage them!


I forgot, third terms are not allowed. Thanks for the reminder!!

I am not a fan of Hilary I have to say.....I hope for everyone there are a few better choices for voters....

Regards

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> This quote immediately above was posted by der_fisherman (Andy) without any link.
> 
> So which person are you Andy? "Didn't bother to read or cannot understand?" Or is it you don't recognize your own ignorant, mud-slinging and rude comments?
> 
> btw; rhetorical question - "as it makes no difference either way." As you stated, "the end result is the same = Ignorance!"


Exactly!!

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What a surprise - you don't know how to make a link work even though you've claimed to be some kind of computer geek on another thread.
> 
> The link I posted works, Andy.
> 
> ...


I tried that first.

The comment about the "s" was to forestall you telling me that.

The link is not highlighted in your original post, that means that KP website could not validate it, so there is an error in it, please correct it and re-post. Check that it gets highlighted!!!

Stop being rude as well, or do you really not want me to read it?????

Post my insults, I am sarcastic, perhaps you do not know the difference!!!

If you wish, I will tell you what the difference is, but only if you wish, simply ask!!!

Thanks

Andy


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Please be so kind as to quote the post that I made that is racist or ugly biased insults. Anyone less racist than I am you have never ever seen!
> 
> I can be very critical to the liars here.....I am not alone.
> 
> ...


Andy, you may not realize it, but Damemary, Wombatnomore, Cheeky Blighter and Tamarique are well-known trolls on KP. They are attack artists doing battle with conservatives just for the sake of doing battle. Personal attacks on others are their mode of operation, and they have many aliases.

There is actually a very small group of trolls on KP with many personas. They use these alter egos to make others on KP think that there are many people supporting their views. You may be legit. Or, you may be another persona. But you live in Germany, and you couldn't have any idea what is happening in the US. But, you should know what communism did to East Germans. You should have seen how many people fled East Germany at the peril of their life to reach freedom.

No where on earth has freedom been more realized than in the US. Until Obama. Now Americans are in a fight to preserve our constitutional rights. In two years he will be gone, and there will be a celebration the likes of Germany's re-unification. There will be dancing in the streets. You are on the wrong side of history in this conversation.


----------



## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

Setting themselves up to be the next Detroit.


knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't believe damemary has heard or read the DOJ's final report re Officer Wilson. As you stated, Wilson was cleared from all accusations and lost his job and ultimately livelihood and enjoyment of his life and reputation because of the lies put upon him by those in Ferguson, the local media, Brown's stepfather and the likes of Sharptons. Today, after several investigations, most will not accept the facts that Officer Wilson did nothing wrong, racist in intent, or anything other than the job he was trained and paid to do. Wilson did everything correctly.
> 
> I acknowledge that the report also has shown problems and racial tensions exist within the Ferguson PD, but, again, those problems were not in any way those of Wilson.
> 
> ...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> You are the person who lacks logic and facts. I haven't seen any documented sources for your position. I have reported what is in the news and have provided more support for my position than you could. There is no factual support for believing Obama is truthful, or that his policies are working, or that crime in large cities is reduced since he took office, or that illegal aliens haven't brought disease, crime and an economic burden to citizens of the U.S. You won't find any support for your premises, which is why you aren't offering it.


I didn't say any of those things.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> That is not exactly a useful web site. I am pretty sure some of the claims are correct (politicians, anyone who thinks differently about them is welcome!), but surely to make things more clear, they would place a link or similar for each item to where this can be checked out?
> 
> Just saying it is so, is what some people here do.....no proof whatsoever....
> 
> ...


Politifact is helpful, but context is everything - that's what is missing. They often deal in absolutes. Just like some others we could name.

I have no illusions that every politician puts spin on facts, and it is no secret that statistics can be skewed to prove just about anything. That's why viewing a variety of sources is helpful, along with a healthy dose of cognitive reasoning. I like Obama. I voted for him twice. That does NOT mean I slavishly support everything he says or does. I'm not a one-dimensional fool.

We can argue who did or said what all day but that wouldn't help particularly. Some on this site are decidedly hateful toward Obama and will gladly - even gleefully - point out every supposed lie. However, the lies coming from the right are taken as gospel. Like this is a christian nation, that there is a war on christianity, Obama is a muslim, all liberals want the government to take care of their every need...you know the list. We all know the list. In my opinion (note, this is clearly an opinion) there is a deliberate strategy associated with the right-wingers to feed the incipient hatred of Obama, and that is to throw so much BS out there so often and so rapidly, that the left is hit with 10 more lies for every one they waste time researching and refuting. People who do not employ the least hint of logic or reason have already moved on to the next sensational fabrication or talking point that has been spun so much that it no longer bears any resemblance to fact. Then REPEAT, REPEAT, REPEAT.

Illustrative of the kind of hate that some bear, as well as a woeful lack of understanding of what the Constitution means, following are a few telling quotes:



> I am more worried about Muslims in America, who leave and come back. I think they need to check to see who's left the country. Any Americans out of the country more than two weeks should be required to go to an American embassy and provide documentation of their reason for being outside the country. Any who don't respond should have their passports revoked. Then, their families should be rounded up and deported or put under surveillance by local police.
> 
> Obama brings out the worst in everyone. His lies sanctify lies by other members of the administration. Leadership would prevent that, but at the core is base corruption. He has no knowledge of right vs. wrong. In his corrupt mind, anything he wants to do or say is right.
> 
> Regarding the movie, The Klansman: What I did enjoy was seeing <O's and his cabinet's heads explode. I stood up following the movie and said loudly, "I'd pay good money to see Obama's head explode." It was just beautiful and so well deserved.


Now, there's some real hate. When hate is the currency, facts don't matter.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> Setting themselves up to be the next Detroit.


I hear you, girl! :thumbup:

Here's the Top Ten List for the 2014 Most Violent Crime Ridden Cities (I believe as reported and compiled by the FBI). Note, ALL are run by Democrats. You know, the party that preaches about peace and getting along with and working in communities and helping one another. Ferguson is only about 8 miles from St. Louis, which is once again, on the most recent list in position #4.

---------------------------
from Law Street Media:

Law Street Media has released their annual list of the highest crime cities in America and there's a common denominator that runs through the list. Each and every city has a Democrat mayor except the number 10 city which has a non-partisan election, (but let's face it, it's Kansas City so he's probably a Dem too.)

The cities with populations over 200,000 ranked as the most dangerous are:

Detroit, MI - Mayor Mike Duggan - DEMOCRAT
Oakland, CA - Mayor Jean Quan - DEMOCRAT
Memphis, TN - Mayor A C Wharton - DEMOCRAT
St. Louis, MO - Mayor Francis G. Slay - DEMOCRAT
Cleveland, OH - Mayor Frank G. Jackson - DEMOCRAT
Baltimore, MD - Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake - DEMOCRAT
Milwaukee, WI - Mayor Tom Barrett - DEMOCRAT
Birmingham, AL - Mayor William A. Bell - DEMOCRAT
Newark, NJ - Mayor Ras Baraka - DEMOCRAT
Kansas City, MO - Mayor Sly James - Independent (but probably a DEMOCRAT)

Keep up the great work, Democrats. Doing a helluva job. Also, great job voting for one-party rule all you unions and inner-city residents. How's that working out for you?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> I forgot, third terms are not allowed. Thanks for the reminder!!
> 
> I am not a fan of Hilary I have to say.....I hope for everyone there are a few better choices for voters....
> 
> ...


I don't like her either. She's much too soft on the environment and she's much too cozy with corporations. I don't trust her - she's one of the "good ol' boys" network.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I hear you, girl! :thumbup:
> 
> Here's the Top Ten List for the 2014 Most Violent Crime Ridden Cities (I believe as reported and compiled by the FBI). Note, ALL are run by Democrats. You know, the party that preaches about peace and getting along with and working in communities and helping one another. Ferguson is only about 8 miles from St. Louis, which is once again, on the most recent list in position #4.
> 
> ...


Also on the site:

Crime is Down Again

Despite a slight uptick in 2012, violent crime levels have been decreasing for years, and the preliminary numbers for 2014 are no exception. Overall violent crime was down 4.6 percent in the first six months of last year relative to the first six months of 2013. This downward trend in violent crime is not limited to the first six months of the year; annual statistics have shown a decrease in violent crime in six of the last seven years. The full year statistics for 2013 indicate that violent crime was down 18 percent when compared to the level in 2000.

Your source. Note who was president when overall crime went down.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Andy, you may not realize it, but Damemary, Wombatnomore, Cheeky Blighter and Tamarique are well-known trolls on KP. They are attack artists doing battle with conservatives just for the sake of doing battle. Personal attacks on others are their mode of operation, and they have many aliases.
> 
> There is actually a very small group of trolls on KP with many personas. They use these alter egos to make others on KP think that there are many people supporting their views. You may be legit. Or, you may be another persona. But you live in Germany, and you couldn't have any idea what is happening in the US. But, you should know what communism did to East Germans. You should have seen how many people fled East Germany at the peril of their life to reach freedom.
> 
> No where on earth has freedom been more realized than in the US. Until Obama. Now Americans are in a fight to preserve our constitutional rights. In two years he will be gone, and there will be a celebration the likes of Germany's re-unification. There will be dancing in the streets. You are on the wrong side of history in this conversation.


Same person who made some exceedingly UN-constitutional suggestions about muslims who leave the US. One wonders who is in favor of abandoning the constitution.


----------



## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

I'm glad you're a liberal too. They can have you. For the most part, I've found most liberals pretty useless because of the high school mentality I see them demonstrate so often. You are welcome to fight the current conservatives as much as you see fit (with your last breath). It matters not to my beliefs. Now, please calm down, and have a blessed day! 



DGreen said:


> I'm not brainwashed. I do not believe everything I hear, and I have been very critical of Obama on any number of issues. Impeachment? So we could have Biden, who would then be impeached? So we could have Boehner??
> 
> I'm proud to be a liberal. I will fight the current conservative agenda with my last breath. You might as well try to convince this atheist to become a born again christian as a republican.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


You tell the truth, Beth something KPG doesn't know anything about. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## grammyv (Feb 11, 2011)

Noon News 3-17-15 Obama suggests that foreign aid to ISIS.

This is not someone else quoting him. These words came from his own mouth in an interview on VICE news.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

grammyv said:


> Noon News 3-17-15 Obama suggests that foreign aid to ISIS.
> 
> This is not someone else quoting him. These words came from his own mouth in an interview on VICE news.


I would dearly love to hear that quote. Something tells me you won't be able to provide it.

This is one I found, and it bears no similarity to what you imply.

*America needs to increase foreign aid to Middle Eastern countries to help stem the growth of groups like the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS), President Obama said during an interview with Vice News that aired Monday. *


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> Andy, you may not realize it, but Damemary, Wombatnomore, Cheeky Blighter and Tamarique are well-known trolls on KP. They are attack artists doing battle with conservatives just for the sake of doing battle. Personal attacks on others are their mode of operation, and they have many aliases.
> 
> There is actually a very small group of trolls on KP with many personas. They use these alter egos to make others on KP think that there are many people supporting their views. You may be legit. Or, you may be another persona. But you live in Germany, and you couldn't have any idea what is happening in the US. But, you should know what communism did to East Germans. You should have seen how many people fled East Germany at the peril of their life to reach freedom.
> 
> No where on earth has freedom been more realized than in the US. Until Obama. Now Americans are in a fight to preserve our constitutional rights. In two years he will be gone, and there will be a celebration the likes of Germany's re-unification. There will be dancing in the streets. You are on the wrong side of history in this conversation.


Why do you feel the need to use the word "Troll"? That starts things badly.....

A couple of the names I already know as rude people without any knowledge of what they are talking about, the rest are OK to my mind......

But I argue as well.....but I do try to be fair....

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

grammyv said:


> Noon News 3-17-15 Obama suggests that foreign aid to ISIS.
> 
> This is not someone else quoting him. These words came from his own mouth in an interview on VICE news.


Looks like a hit-and-run - the poster dropped a very provocative message then logged off immediately. I wonder why.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Now, there's some real hate. When hate is the currency, facts don't matter.


Good post

Andy


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> YOU are the child and bully. You do nothing but incite others, insult and call them out, and when challenged change your tune.
> 
> You offer nothing but disrespect, dissension and stupid comments and insults.
> 
> ...


You are the only bully out here. So typical of you. You have not offered one bit of useful proof of what you cannot even express intelligently to be your beliefs about anything. The only thing I can glean from you is hatred of anything that you don't comprehend and that makes you one terrified person so you lash out at everything and in the end say absolutely nothing. You are the clanging cymbal which signifies nothing. :thumbdown: :hunf:


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## Mama Judy (Mar 12, 2015)

Could you tell where all the kind and considerate knitters went? This talk has made rethink this community.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> I don't like her either. She's much too soft on the environment and she's much too cozy with corporations. I don't trust her - she's one of the "good ol' boys" network.


Look who she was/is married to:-

Mr "A blow job is not sex!" :? :? :? :?

My wife would have a different opinion on that if it had been me!!! :-D :-D :-D :-D

I was in Boston on the day he said that he had not had sex with "that woman" - poor Monica Lewinsky......How rude......he is NOT a gentleman....

He was both lying and being rude.....lawyers!!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

Regards

Andy


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> A typical ludicrous statement from DGreen. Everyone can defend herself against your stupidity, it's simple actually. I never mentioned KC and she doesn't need me to defend her.
> 
> PROVE YOUR OPINIONS delivered as fact, Diane, like you scream for in angry ignorant rants in every other post you write.
> 
> .... back to ignoring your posts ...


Will see how long she can hold out. KPG you have only said this hundreds of times before but like the clown that you are you can't stay out of the limelight for long. You remind me of the dancing monkey with her little begging cup. "Look at me. look at me!" :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## grammyv (Feb 11, 2011)

Looks like a hit-and-run - the poster dropped a very provocative message then logged off immediately. I wonder why.

Wrong again! I've been here all along.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I don't believe damemary has heard or read the DOJ's final report re Officer Wilson. As you stated, Wilson was cleared from all accusations and lost his job and ultimately livelihood and enjoyment of his life and reputation because of the lies put upon him by those in Ferguson, the local media, Brown's stepfather and the likes of Sharptons. Today, after several investigations, most will not accept the facts that Officer Wilson did nothing wrong, racist in intent, or anything other than the job he was trained and paid to do. Wilson did everything correctly.
> 
> I acknowledge that the report also has shown problems and racial tensions exist within the Ferguson PD, but, again, those problems were not in any way those of Wilson.
> 
> ...


Blah blah blah blah blah :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

CarolfromTX said:


> You want a list of the lies Obama has told? How about this?


Please print a copy that is large enough to read or don't bother to post. What a waste of space.
:thumbdown:


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## CarolfromTX (Nov 30, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Please print a copy that is large enough to read or don't bother to post. What a waste of space.
> :thumbdown:


Yeah, Sorry, my bad. I didn't realize how small it would come out. No way to tell, really. But here are a couple of lie highights:

1. if you like your plan, you can keep your plan.
2. Benghazi was the fault of a YouTube video.
3. I didn't know Hillary had a private email address.
4. Shovel ready jobs.
5. There's not a hint of scandal in the IRS.
6. The NSA isn't collecting data on millions of Americans.
7. The Arab spring will bring peace to the Middle East

And on and on.... I do believe he would lie when the truth would do as well.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Mama Judy said:


> Could you tell where all the kind and considerate knitters went? This talk has made rethink this community.


This is "General Chit Chat" which is an open forum. Enlightening view of the "whole" person.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> CBS didn't even hit 7 million last week. Please stick to the facts.


As I said, the three networks averaged 8 million viewers, for their Network news program. To be exact 7,719,333.33. Total over 23 million.
From the statistics you sent about Fox's viewer stats, the highest was 1.75 million, so how on Earth does that translate to the highest watched, in any Universe?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

grammyv said:


> Looks like a hit-and-run - the poster dropped a very provocative message then logged off immediately. I wonder why.
> 
> Wrong again! I've been here all along.


No, you had logged off. It's easy to tell when someone is online and you were not. You may have logged back in, but when I posted you were definitely offline.

So, where can we see the interview?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> As I said, the three networks averaged 8 million viewers, for their Network news program. To be exact 7,719,333.33. Total over 23 million.
> From the statistics you sent about Fox's viewer stats, the highest was 1.75 million, so how on Earth does that translate to the highest watched, in any Universe?


You claimed an average of 8 million each national network and a total of 24 million. As I showed with a graphic, CBS never reached 7 million in the week you referenced so your claim was incorrect and was, therefore, impossible for the average to reach 8 million (another false claim by you).

The stats I originally posted referred only to cable programs and that was duly noted.

I asked you why you would expect one cable network (Fox) to exceed the total of both cable and national networks combined as I thought that comparison is meaningless.

I proved with figures that Fox is the most watched on _ cable_, my repeated claim, and that Fox exceeded all other cable networks combined in "Total Day" and nearly in "Primetime" because that is what we were discussing.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Why do you feel the need to use the word "Troll"? That starts things badly.....
> 
> A couple of the names I already know as rude people without any knowledge of what they are talking about, the rest are OK to my mind......
> 
> ...


Trolls play deceitful games with online sites. That's what these people do. Yes, they are rude. But, they are also destructive to an honest sharing of views. Normally, their angry rhetoric causes others to leave a thread. That's their goal. It certainly isn't sharing ideas.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here are the facts on viewers as of March 15, 2015: Fox News has more than the other stations combined for "Primetime" viewing, as I stated prior, and are only 4.8% shy of total dominance in "Total Day" viewers as compared to all other cable programs combined as shown in the comparison below.


And this is something to boast about?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Trolls play deceitful games with online sites. That's what these people do. Yes, they are rude. But, they are also destructive to an honest sharing of views. Normally, their angry rhetoric causes others to leave a thread. That's their goal. It certainly isn't sharing ideas.


Yet another unsubstantiated (and unprovable) accusation. WHERE could you possibly get your inside information on the goals of others?

Seriously, you make a lot of outlandish statements, KC. Do you ever think before you post as to whether your statements are plausible or logical? Unless stated by those you criticize, you can't possibly know what their goals are any more than I can know yours - about anything.


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You claimed an average of 8 million each national network and a total of 24 million. As I showed with a graphic, CBS never reached 7 million in the week you referenced so your claim was incorrect and was, therefore, impossible for the average to reach 8 million (another false claim by you).
> 
> The stats I originally posted referred only to cable programs and that was duly noted.
> 
> ...


No no no. I repeatedly talked about network news, not only cable. You repeatedly say that Fox is always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US etc. I would say 25 million compared to 1.75 million does not even compute. So, most viewers in the U.S. watch Network news, for their news. 
As for the average of viewers, I added the totals up for you and showed you the average of all three was 8 million, rounded up,as one does. 
So, Fox has 2 viewers to every 12 Network news viewers, rounding up.


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I won't argue with your opinion, but you are wrong on the facts. The facts support that Fox News is the most watched and most trusted for delivering the NEWS. Fox also has correspondents and journalists that broadcast only the NEWS along with pundits on both sides who give their political opinions. Opinions can be seen on CNN and MSNBC and entertainment shows like The View.
> 
> The facts show those who seek the facts and news, the majority, are watching Fox.


This is what you said.


----------



## Knit crazy (Mar 13, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Yet another unsubstantiated (and unprovable) accusation. WHERE could you possibly get your inside information on the goals of others?
> 
> Seriously, you make a lot of outlandish statements, KC. Do you ever think before you post as to whether your statements are plausible or logical? Unless stated by those you criticize, you can't possibly know what their goals are any more than I can know yours - about anything.


Some of the original trolls get kicked off KP. But they always show up again with a new name. VocalLisa is gone. Ingried is one. She's now Huckleberry. I'm sure you know that one. Isn't she a buddy of yours? I caught one this year, reported her to admin and she's gone. I only bother with those who make threats of violence against someone. People like you are annoying, but insignificant in the big picture. You can't stop them all, just the most abusive. You really ought to find nicer people to hang out with.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Knit crazy said:


> Some of the original trolls get kicked off KP. But they always show up again with a new name. VocalLisa is gone. Ingried is one. She's now Huckleberry. I'm sure you know that one. Isn't she a buddy of yours? I caught one this year, reported her to admin and she's gone. I only bother with those who make threats of violence against someone. People like you are annoying, but insignificant in the big picture. You can't stop them all, just the most abusive. You really ought to find nicer people to hang out with.


Like you? No thanks. I prefer people who actually think and who don't give in to hate like you do.

Threats of violence, eh? How about you saying you would pay money to see the president's head explode (which would render him dead). That's just ugly.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> As I said, the three networks averaged 8 million viewers, for their Network news program. To be exact 7,719,333.33. Total over 23 million.
> From the statistics you sent about Fox's viewer stats, the highest was 1.75 million, so how on Earth does that translate to the highest watched, in any Universe?


Some of us don't admit it? Or some lie and say they are watching the others. Take your choice probably both are true.


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## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Also on the site:
> 
> Crime is Down Again
> 
> ...


Couldn't possibly be those armed police. Nah. People are finally understanding them. Woooottt.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

der_fisherman said:
 

> Look who she was/is married to:-
> 
> Mr "A blow job is not sex!" :? :? :? :?
> 
> ...


She is not a lady so it's a toss up. Who keeps a stained dress?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Please be so kind as to quote the post that I made that is racist or ugly biased insults. Anyone less racist than I am you have never ever seen!
> 
> I can be very critical to the liars here.....I am not alone.
> 
> ...


Something about white supremacists? Is that they one you can't remember?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

ummirain said:


> Agree it is very depressing,the gun use in America,and mentality behind it.
> This beautiful land is filled with hatred,resentment,intolerance.
> I am well-traveled,and have found Brits to be more gentle,funnier,and if I were younger,would be an ex pat in England.
> As far as people crossing "our" borders....2 of them are sweating in the Florida sun mowing our community commons,trimming our trees,and hauling trash.
> ...


You can be an ex Pat in the USA at any age. We don't discriminate against illegals. That would be so gauche.


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## Montana Gramma (Dec 19, 2012)

joycevv said:


> Sounds ominous. I loved living in England and seeing the bobbies with only their billy clubs. Here in America, we have to endure the arrogance of heavily armed police. Even in our schools now, there is usually an armed policeman walking around. It feels like a police state sometimes.


Gee, I don't see our police force or sheriffs department as arrogant just because they are in uniform, which includes a firearm. For anyone teaching school in the worst parts of big cities I bet they are glad someone can intervene when the student's gun or knife comes out, occurring on a regular basis. Not looking for confrontation here, just believe that is what it takes in a lot of instances to be safe and my Gkids protected. Hope your neighbourhood is ok Mary.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> No no no. I repeatedly talked about network news, not only cable. You repeatedly say that Fox is always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US etc. I would say 25 million compared to 1.75 million does not even compute. So, most viewers in the U.S. watch Network news, for their news.
> As for the average of viewers, I added the totals up for you and showed you the average of all three was 8 million, rounded up,as one does.
> So, Fox has 2 viewers to every 12 Network news viewers, rounding up.


I'm sorry but you are not being truthful. You began by mentioning ONLY a *cable* program (Fox) and slamming them for having the least factually informed viewers. You did not mention networks in your first post which I responded to:



Beth0201 said:


> Faux news viewers and listeners are shown to be the LEAST factually informed than anyone, because the facts they hear are lies. Just because it is screamed loudly and often does not make it true. Use your heads, and Google.


In your 2nd post you still only mention by name *cable* programs and # of *cable* viewers and imply all the other *cable* channels together and made no mention nor distinction about national networks. Seen here:



Beth0201 said:


> I don't watch MSNBC, Fox has a lot of cable viewers it is true, mostly like minded, but all the other channels together have a lot more people watching and getting divergent views of stories. I switch around to see what the stories are.


After I posted a stats CABLE graphic, for the FIRST time, you mentioned network news PLUS *cable* channels once again.



Beth0201 said:


> Thanks for these statistics, but I wasn't talking about prime time, I was talking about network news plus those cable channels.


Then, finally, before I posted the stats of the three top National Networks you spoke about the *networks* having 8 million viewers *each* and a combined total viewership of 24 million. However, you once again, bashed Fox, although obviously you know Fox is on cable. Post follows:



Beth0201 said:


> Well I will tell you, my opinion, you won't like it and then I'm done with this thread. I promise myself.
> The three network news programs averaged 8 mil viewers apiece last week, after losing millions because of daylight savings.
> Most including me realize Fox is an entertainment network, their programs are opinion programs. They don't need to stick to the facts. Many like that, I dont.
> So most people 24 million, want facts.


After I posted a Networks graphic and corrected your incorrect arithmetic and false calculations, you said this: 


Beth0201 said:


> As I said, the three networks averaged 8 million viewers, for their Network news program. To be exact 7,719,333.33. Total over 23 million.
> From the statistics you sent about Fox's viewer stats, the highest was 1.75 million, so how on Earth does that translate to the highest watched, in any Universe?


You finish with: 


Beth0201 said:


> No no no. I repeatedly talked about network news, not only cable. You repeatedly say that Fox is always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US etc. I would say 25 million compared to 1.75 million does not even compute. So, most viewers in the U.S. watch Network news, for their news.
> As for the average of viewers, I added the totals up for you and showed you the average of all three was 8 million, rounded up,as one does.
> So, Fox has 2 viewers to every 12 Network news viewers, rounding up.


I never, nor repeatedly said Fox is 'always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US.'

I specifically said Fox reigns in *cable* viewers. I even told you I thought you comparing Fox to all networks *and* cable programs was meaningless. I still believe that to be true.

Your math skills are lacking. I presented the viewer stats of both cable and network programs. I calculated the percentages and refuted your false statements. However, no intelligent person would claim that 6.9 million viewers (CBS) should be and is normally rounded up to 8 million. I can accept 6.9 rounded to 7 million, but to 8 million is absurd.

All the *cable* programs COMBINED don't even match your 1,093,000 'rounding' number. You dismiss Fox as having more viewers than your 'rounding' error and yet call that number insignificant when it is in support of your views and in rounding, but claim that slightly more than that number of viewers that Fox alone commands is not that significant because Fox is programming you do not like and did repeatedly slam.

Here is exactly what I did say:

KPG: "CBS didn't even hit 7 million last week. Please stick to the facts."

KPG: "Why you'd insist on a comparison of one production (Fox News) to ALL other *networks and cable* channels is beyond my understanding."

KPG: "Here are the facts on viewers as of March 15, 2015: Fox News has more than the other stations combined for "Primetime" viewing, as I stated prior, and are only 4.8% shy of total dominance in "Total Day" viewers *as compared to all other cable programs combined* as shown in the comparison below."

Please do not put words into my mouth. I, repeat, I did NOT 'say repeatedly that Fox is always and in every case the most watched ... ' I specifically qualified my comments and was specific.

You did NOT repeatedly speak about networks news, you only made that distinction after several posts between us as I have requoted above.

I am through with this conversation, but I have enjoyed hearing your views.


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

This is getting silly. Just because I may not have specifically mentioned every single other channel, most people would realize I was talking about ALL other channels, which I said many times. I don't watch cable news, except to check in. Sometimes. So I would never just refer to them. 
And the math, I said several times it was an average of ALL THREE, not each specifically. The math works. And I never used the number 1,093,000.
And Fox's number is insignificant compared to Network News. 
This is not seeing the forest for the trees
I really am out of this now! Good night!
PS I hope everything worked out for the lady who first wrote in about the police activity around her house, I think she lived in Wales? It seems so long ago! &#128521;


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> This is getting silly. Just because I may not have specifically mentioned every single other channel, most people would realize I was talking about ALL other channels, which I said many times. I don't watch cable news, except to check in. Sometimes. So I would never just refer to them.
> And the math, I said several times it was an average of ALL THREE, not each specifically. The math works. And I never used the number 1,093,000.
> And Fox's number is insignificant compared to Network News.
> This is not seeing the forest for the trees
> ...


You are repeating your false statements. I will no longer respond to them.

You said 8,000,000 *apiece* which IS each specifically. Your math is faulty, and I never said you used the 1,093,000 number even though it was YOU who rounded it. Your math is wrong, you don't understand averages nor percentages and sums, and you did not use standard practices in your quotes and calculations.

You really should take responsibility for your own words and stop forcing words and stats onto me I did not write nor accept.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> The trolls are out today. Isn't it funny how the attack dogs operate? They really just want to shut down discussion by attacking others personally.


Hmmm isn't that what you just did? She who has not sinned......


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knit crazy said:


> Trolls play deceitful games with online sites. That's what these people do. Yes, they are rude. But, they are also destructive to an honest sharing of views. Normally, their angry rhetoric causes others to leave a thread. That's their goal. It certainly isn't sharing ideas.


If KC is challenged, (which I think she is) she calls anyone opposing her a troll. She refuses to see that these "trolls" have been members of this site long before she came around. Just sayin...
Don't give it another thought, Beth. Most normal people get your drift


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I never, nor repeatedly said Fox is 'always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US.'
> 
> I specifically said Fox reigns in *cable* viewers. I even told you I thought you comparing Fox to all networks *and* cable programs was meaningless. I still believe that to be true.
> 
> ...


What Cheeky said... Blah Blah Blah


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hmmm isn't that what you just did? She who has not sinned......


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I never, nor repeatedly said Fox is 'always and in every case the most watched by viewers in the US.'
> 
> I specifically said Fox reigns in *cable* viewers. I even told you I thought you comparing Fox to all networks *and* cable programs was meaningless. I still believe that to be true.
> 
> ...


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> If KC is challenged, (which I think she is) she calls anyone opposing her a troll. She refuses to see that these "trolls" have been members of this site long before she came around. Just sayin...
> Don't give it another thought, Beth. Most normal people get your drift


You don't even have to oppose KC - just question her "facts" and she gets upset. Point out the difference between an opinion and a "fact" and she gets upset. Obviously, she is accustomed to another thread where her statements are applauded by others, no matter how prejudiced, irrational, or illogical. But then, that's how the extremists on the right operate - throw out lies and hateful statements and the crowd shouts, "Yeah!"


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Knit crazy said:


> Trolls play deceitful games with online sites. That's what these people do. Yes, they are rude. But, they are also destructive to an honest sharing of views. Normally, their angry rhetoric causes others to leave a thread. That's their goal. It certainly isn't sharing ideas.


To my mind, you generalize a little too much (I am also guilty of the same error! But it does Anonymize the comments which is positive) and as I said before, you (and I both) really don't think that name calling is "adult".

It is true that "Sticks and stones will break my bones.....etc", something that I do strongly believe in, in a normal life, but online is not really normal. Nobody can break my bones with a few key presses.....     Maybe one day!!!!

But we should all try not to "start" the name calling! Just say it as you see it without names like "troll" and the like. That will quickly show who has a valid point and who doesn't, as they will resort to name calling first!!

Its not easy, I sometimes get annoyed with the "take" of some here (luckily for us all a minority).....at least of the ones posting with the spelling and grammar level of young children. They obviously never gone into higher education in any way shape or form and who show that they would rather believe a biased rumour, rather than obvious facts!!!

Higher level education is certainly not needed for both good grammar and spelling, a proper high school education and a high school diploma or the country equivalent are more than enough to achieve good grammar and spelling!

If reasonable attention was paid at the time in school, it is not needed to be an Einstein.....

I actually feel sorry that these people are so far way from understanding the REAL facts of life.......as if believing a rumour is for them is actually positive.

For example, getting so worked up over what is often 90% lies about a great president, * who has been voted in by the mainly intelligent people of the country for two terms*....he is a politician, they make mistakes and do about turns, ALL OF THEM!!!

He is one, that if it was legal, could easily have tried for a third term, and maybe got it too. He is a good middle of the road alternative for many normal people....but who is not perfect!!! (Show me a President who was!)

....I who thank (all) God(s) that it is so.......

He is liked by the majority.....that is most important.

In the UK, people do not admit that they did NOT vote for the Party that eventually wins.......as they do not want to be seen as as part of an ineffective minority of losers.....

In the USA, they appear to ENJOY being on the side of the loser!! Completely different take......

*But it is a TRUE sign of a majority US Democratic process and vote, that a President must not be Catholic or Protestant, he can also be a Muslim......who is now a two term Muslim President.*

My compliments to the USA as a whole.

But I am reminded of that old saying:-

"You can please some of the people some of the time, you can even please most of the people most of the time, BUT YOU CANNOT PLEASE ALL OF THE PEOPLE ALL OF THE TIME!"

How true!!

Its sad that the most of the overly "loud" vocal ones here are often the least well informed....who can NEVER post good accurate weblinks or other reliable facts (and do not understand why that ruins any argument they may have immediately, if they don't! Telling us that we should ourselves search out links that support their diatribes!!!! How idiotic is that?).

Sadly, for the uninformed, there are many unreliable and completely inaccurate websites, saying exactly what they want to believe.

Its basically the modern equivalent of how Hitler achieved his majority by taking over all the small radio companies, not allowing foreign broadcasts and news, then just transmitting Nazi propaganda. If that is all you hear, you eventually start to believe it!!

The ones here who immediately resort to name calling as a way to get their point across,are just like the Nazis and high school playground Bullies!!! You do what we say or you will be MADE unhappy!!

I was "built" lucky for me in those days (mid 1950s), almost 6 foot tall at 10 years old, and the muscles to go with it, the Bullies had a VERY hard time with me.

They were ALWAYS allowed to hit me first, I hit them last!!!

None came back for more.

My Navy career went much the same way......I never lost a fight in or out of the ring, except one in Jamaica when a coward smashed me over the head with a bottle from behind as I was punching his partner, and left me for dead on the street. Still got the scars....).

AS SOME OF THE PEOPLE HERE HAVE SIMPLY NO INTELLIGENT WAY/RESOURCE TO REPLY OR TO QUESTION A POINT OF VIEW WITHOUT RESORTING TO NAME CALLING!!!.....

We all know who they are.....so who really cares?....we just need to ignore them and just leave them alone with their own ignorant friends. Something that I plan to do more often in the future. I have tried recently to support the "sane" posters and ignore the others, but its not easy....

On other blogs, there are anonymous methods of rating a post for good value/accuracy or not. I see here is only for items, not for comments. Sadly.

If that system, which is as good as never used here in its present form as far as I can see, so a real "waste of space" really, was changed to reflect our individual take on the post, there could be some really good feedback for each and everyone to assess each other....

If more people agree, then maybe we should approach Admin for some changes. Please contact me with a PM if you feel the same way....I will take on the job to approach Admin if there appears to be enough support from everyone. Thanks in advance.

I think that I have said enough on this subject and my take on it as well should now be pretty clear.....

regards to all and do have a great day!

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Text deleted to save space.

Thank you for your reasoned comments and for sharing some background. Interesting post.

Andy, Obama is not a muslim. Another right-wing lie that has been repeated often. There is no evidence whatever that Obama ever was a muslim or is one now. He is not a muslim sympathizer, either - another fabrication of the extremists who pander to the mindless prejudices of many conservatives. Of course, there will be those who will post endless articles "proving" their case, but one need only observe the source to assess the validity of the claims.

Again, *OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM.*


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Again, *OBAMA IS NOT A MUSLIM.*





DGreen said:


> Opinions are not facts.
> 
> You make wild statements and expect people to believe them because you said so.
> 
> ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Finally, someone is telling the truth. But 0bama lied about being a Christian so he could be elected.


I'm certain, you, like me, are waiting with great anticipation for DGreen to prove that which she posts as factual, is factual and not just her opinion.

We all know how DGreen demands links, sources, and evidence from everyone else.

I'm anxious to see her proof.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm certain, you, like me, are waiting with great anticipation for DGreen to prove that which she posts as factual and not just her opinion.
> 
> We all know how DGreen demands links, sources, and evidence from everyone else.
> 
> I'm anxious to see her proof.


Obama says he is a christian. That's the best source there is - from his own mouth. http://www.jpost.com/International/Obama-dismisses-Muslim-faith-claims-says-he-is-devout-Christian-389267

You and others like you are the ones who make false claims and who challenge his statement about his faith. I've seen plenty of purported "proof" posted by the right wing, none of which holds up to scrutiny. Supposition, deduction based on interpretation of comments, you name it.

Then, there are the outright lies and the rumors spread on the Internet.

Why is this such an issue to the right wing? As if being a muslim is a crime or would disqualify anyone from public office? Hence, the accusations, supported by seriously twisted and nonsensical "proof." Bah.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Yep, when Obama says it, I tend to believe he means it. After all DGreen says that is the best source there is; coming from his own mouth:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Obama says he is a christian. That's the best source there is - from his own mouth. http://www.jpost.com/International/Obama-dismisses-Muslim-faith-claims-says-he-is-devout-Christian-389267
> 
> You and others like you are the ones who make false claims and who challenge his statement about his faith. I've seen plenty of purported "proof" posted by the right wing, none of which holds up to scrutiny. Supposition, deduction based on interpretation of comments, you name it.


Liar!!!!

You have no proof that I've made false claims on Obama's faith because I HAVE not.

Read your own lies about proving your words. I will not respond to your posts but will defend myself against your lies about me.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, when Obama says it, I tend to believe he means it. After all it is coming from his own mouth:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Liar!!!!
> 
> You have no proof that I've made false claims on Obama's faith because I HAVE not.
> 
> Read your own lies about proving your words. I will not respond to your posts but will defend myself against your lies about me.


Can't tell whether you mean you have made no claims about Obama's faith or whether you have never made false claims.

Touchy, aren't you? I see you have reverted to your favorite tactic of automatically screaming "liar" when anyone disagrees with you. It might be helpful for you to get a grip on rationality. Since I'm confident you will continue to behave irrationally, I'm going to revert to my own tactic of ignoring you. Wish I could say it's been nice conversing with you, but that definitely WOULD BE a lie.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

this is what I know as truth about President.

Mother join in Muslim faith

Father Muslim

Step father Muslim

President attend Muslim schools

Attend Rev. Wrights Church for ten years. Rev. not a friend of America.

Left Wrights church when starting campaign for President.
Wright angry and revealed many facts about Obama and faith.

Is he a Muslim I do not know, but he was steep into Muslim faith. 

No will not provide proof. As you can find it for yourself. As you want others to do. I have found all this information and am sure you will be able to find it to if you are or want to see for yourself.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Matthew 7: 15-20 (NKJV) You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
> 
> _15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
> 
> ...


It is laughable that you would post SCRIPTURE to support a point. (Which is only an opinion, anyway). Most intelligent people know the bible is a fraud.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, when Obama says it, I tend to believe he means it. After all DGreen says that is the best source there is; coming from his own mouth:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Obama says he is a christian. That's the best source there is - from his own mouth. http://www.jpost.com/International/Obama-dismisses-Muslim-faith-claims-says-he-is-devout-Christian-389267
> 
> You and others like you are the ones who make false claims and who challenge his statement about his faith. I've seen plenty of purported "proof" posted by the right wing, none of which holds up to scrutiny. Supposition, deduction based on interpretation of comments, you name it.
> 
> ...


I wouldn't care if President Obama were Muslim, atheist, Christian, whatever. But I would think it progressive of the U.S. to have a Muslim president.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You will change your mind, when you are dying. Then it will be too late.
> 
> I challenge you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it.


Why does it matter?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> You will change your mind, when you are dying. Then it will be too late.
> 
> I challenge you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it.


I've told you before - I've faced death a couple of times in the last year or two - particularly as I was being taken to surgery after a very serious heart attack. The chance of me dying that day was pretty much 50-50 and I knew that. I've also had a stroke fairly recently. The thought of god never entered my mind at those moments. I'm the real thing, Joey. Atheist through and through and your completely unfounded predictions about me are laughable. There ARE atheists in foxholes - people like me whose intellectual integrity is intact and healthy.

Obama professes to be a christian. I don't need to prove it - the claim comes from the man himself and I posted a source earlier. Saying he is a muslim is an attempt to smear him, presumably because being muslim is a bad thing - or to prove he is lying. In this case, you are the one making an unsubstantiated claim and I don't need or care to prove how Obama demonstrates his christiany to you. His statements are all I need.

I know all about the websites that supposedly prove what you say but each and every one is bogus. Those youtube videos are the products of "quote mining" where a few words are taken out of context then strung together as "evidence" of his muslim faith. Produced by people with a distinct agenda. Let me assure you, even I have the skills needed to produce exactly the same kind of video to prove anything I would care to prove - it's not at all difficult if one has the motive to deceive people or further an agenda. (I'm currently assisting in production of a video to further the cause of Amnesty International for a local group, so I'm not blowing smoke as to my skill set). Of course you believe them because you are looking for validation for your obvious hatred of the man. You're welcome to your delusions - hope you enjoy them.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> "I challenged you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it."
> 
> I guess there are none or you could list at least one!


I just refuse to play your silly game.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Why does it matter?


It shouldn't matter, since we supposedly have religious freedom here in the US.

My guess is that right wing extremists want to use hysteria over islam as an opportunity to attack Obama. They'll stop at nothing to spread hate for him. Fortunately, a lot of people recognize it for what it is. Interesting, isn't it, no one is calling for the right wing darlings to prove they are christian - there's about as much evidence Obama is a muslim as evidence that Santorum is muslim.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> It seems to matter to Diane, or she wouldn't care that people say he is a Muslim.


You might want to stop using a given name or you definitely will be reported to the Ostrich for stalking.


----------



## inishowen (May 28, 2011)

I wonder if Mary, the lady who started this thread, is still reading. I guess she's gone away because it's been taken over by American politics.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep, when Obama says it, I tend to believe he means it. After all DGreen says that is the best source there is; coming from his own mouth:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You don't remember your first post on KP? loosing it?
> 
> _Introduce Yourself -> Diane (go to message) Nov 1, 12 08:41:23
> I'm a soon-to-be retired knitter and can't wait to have time to devote to knitting, beading, quilting, gardening....
> ...


==============

It is an obsessive person to go back years to find personal information about another person. I guess you do that with all those who have different political views than you do?

Shame -- that was when she first joined and you have really overstepped in my opinion. It tells a lot about you as a person.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have been calling her Diane for a long time. It has never been a secret, since she provided it.


Then why did you go back to her first post? How many others of us have you gone back. With me it doesn't matter as I don't hide my name but others prefer privacy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> "I challenged you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it."
> 
> I guess there are none or you could list at least one!


Joey, Joey, Joey, DGreen only _sets_ the standards! Don't you know she is like Hillary and above having to play by the very rules she dictates? She likes Obama, voted for him twice, is a Liberal and proud of it. She's a good steward following her party platform.

Of course, she'll not provide evidence to support her *opinions*; that's beneath her and would expose her lies.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

The right wing is the gift that just keeps on giving. It's funny enough to see the twisted stuff that passes for "truth", but to bring in fairy tales to back it up has me rolling on the carpet. Carry on - it's hilarious.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I've said a number of times that all one has to do is listen to Obama's speeches to know who he is, especially when he goes off prompter. They are his words and not taken out of context.


Agreed! Even DGreen says if it comes out of his own mouth; it is _the best_ source and we can all take it to the bank.  Thank the Lord I never voted for him nor invested in anything he said or believed he is good for his word. My investments and assets are intact. :-D

Oh, nothing in the video I posted was taken out of context, Obama was discussing himself (his favorite subject), and the video only shortened his speeches to the pertinent words and compiled them for ease of research. Anyone can locate and listen to each of Obama's speeches if they care to hear one in its entirety. Besides, the point was made the best source of who Barack is, is what he says about himself. Not what DGreen says, what the Repubs, Dems, video producers or I say, but what Barack said.

It's there - his every word about himself!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Is it a "silly game" when you *demand* websites from others like KFN?
> 
> I guess all you have is opinion and no facts.


 :thumbup: that's all folks!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> You don't remember your first post on KP?
> 
> _Introduce Yourself -> Diane (go to message) Nov 1, 12 08:41:23
> I'm a soon-to-be retired knitter and can't wait to have time to devote to knitting, beading, quilting, gardening....
> ...


OMG - the idiocy of her words! If she didn't want her name to be used, why the heck did she introduce herself as Diane?

I see that you have been on longer than she Joey, no wonder you know her actual name and have used it - it is how DGreen introduced herself on a *public* forum! If she wanted privacy, she certainly has a funny way going about maintaining same.

I find it hilarious she threatened to turn you into Admin for calling her by the very name by which she introduced herself.

:XD:   KP is such a happy place - belly laughs an added bonus!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> You don't remember your first post on KP?
> 
> _Introduce Yourself -> Diane (go to message) Nov 1, 12 08:41:23
> I'm a soon-to-be retired knitter and can't wait to have time to devote to knitting, beading, quilting, gardening....
> ...


When a person goes back that far to find personal information about another poster, it's really, really creepy. How much did you have to read before you found what you were looking for? And why were you looking for it, Joey? In hopes of finding something personal to use against me? In hopes of finding a discrepancy in my posts so you could call me a liar? I've certainly seen those tactics used before and I know exactly where you learned them. Perhaps I should be flattered that you were willing to waste so much time doing research on me, but I'm not.

For the record, I would prefer that you address me with the formal Ms. Green in the future. I don't consider you my friend and you assume too close a relationship by using a given name.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> When a person goes back that far to find personal information about another poster, it's really, really creepy. How much did you have to read before you found what you were looking for? And why were you looking for it, Joey? In hopes of finding something personal to use against me? In hopes of finding a discrepancy in my posts so you could call me a liar? I've certainly seen those tactics used before and I know exactly where you learned them. Perhaps I should be flattered that you were willing to waste so much time doing research on me, but I'm not.
> 
> For the record, I would prefer that you address me with the formal Ms. Green in the future. I don't consider you my friend and you assume too close a relationship by using a given name.


I'm breaking my promise not to respond to you.

*You* introduced yourself in your *first* post as Diane! OMG, you're nuts. Anyone only has to read ONE post to learn your name. Notice Joey was a KP member before you were? No 'going back' and looking for 'something to use against you.' Don't blame anyone but yourself for your actions if you don't like being called the name YOU offered.

Remember, the best source is from your own mouth? Those are your words, just in case you cannot remember you just wrote them * five posts prior!* So don't accuse me of 'going way back in history, years even, to find something to use against you.'

Obviously, Joey has an excellent memory, as do I, something you apparently don't. This is so darn funny, I'm falling off my chair.

:XD:   :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - the idiocy of her words! If she didn't want her name to be used, why the heck did she introduce herself as Diane?
> 
> I see that you have been on longer than she Joey, no wonder you know her actual name and have used it - it is how DGreen introduced herself on a *public* forum! If she wanted privacy, she certainly has a funny way going about getting it.
> 
> ...


In my initial innocence, I was unaware of people like you who have a desire to stalk others.

Since you seem thoroughly familiar with my history, you have no doubt noticed that I have never used my given name since so you and your friends had to go searching for the one instance where it was posted. For what purpose? It would seem sinister if you had not proven on so many occasions to be nothing more than ridiculous.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> In my initial innocence, I was unaware of people like you who have a desire to stalk others.
> 
> Since you seem thoroughly familiar with my history, you have no doubt noticed that I have never used my given name since so you and your friends had to go searching for the one instance where it was posted. For what purpose? It would seem sinister if you had not proven on so many occasions to be nothing more than ridiculous.


Go ahead and keep libeling me, Diane. I've never stalked you or anyone in my life nor had the desire. No doubt you've noticed, I mostly ignore you.

Here's a promise I won't break: I'll forward your libeling posts to my attorney.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Go ahead and keep libeling me, Diane. I've never stalked you or anyone in my life nor had the desire. No doubt you've noticed, I mostly ignore you.
> 
> Here's a promise I won't break: I'll forward your libeling posts to my attorney.


Oh dear! I'm so frightened I nearly wet myself laughing.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Oh dear! I'm so frightened I nearly wet myself laughing.


Perhaps this company may be of use to you:


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Oh dear! I'm so frightened I nearly wet myself laughing.


Me thinks someone does not know the definition of ignore. Or libel.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Good grief, someone has actually used the dreaded "methinks". Priceless.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Agreed! Even DGreen says if it comes out of his own mouth; it is _the best_ source and we can all take it to the bank.  Thank the Lord I never voted for him nor invested in anything he said or believed he is good for his word. My investments and assets are intact. :-D
> 
> Oh, nothing in the video I posted was taken out of context, Obama was discussing himself (his favorite subject), and the video only shortened his speeches to the pertinent words and compiled them for ease of research. Anyone can locate and listen to each of Obama's speeches if they care to hear one in its entirety. Besides, the point was made the best source of who Barack is, is what he says about himself. Not what DGreen says, what the Repubs, Dems, video producers or I say, but what Barack said.
> 
> It's there - his every word about himself!


There are also his books. Even if he didn't write them by himself, they are his words describing his upbringing.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm breaking my promise not to respond to you.
> 
> *You* introduced yourself in your *first* post as Diane! OMG, you're nuts. Anyone only has to read ONE post to learn your name. Notice Joey was a KP member before you were? No 'going back' and looking for 'something to use against you.' Don't blame anyone but yourself for your actions if you don't like being called the name YOU offered.
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

. changed my mind.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Go ahead and keep libeling me, Diane. I've never stalked you or anyone in my life nor had the desire. No doubt you've noticed, I mostly ignore you.
> 
> Here's a promise I won't break: I'll forward your libeling posts to my attorney.


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Scary, huh?


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

DGreen said:


> When a person goes back that far to find personal information about another poster, it's really, really creepy. How much did you have to read before you found what you were looking for? And why were you looking for it, Joey? In hopes of finding something personal to use against me? In hopes of finding a discrepancy in my posts so you could call me a liar? I've certainly seen those tactics used before and I know exactly where you learned them. Perhaps I should be flattered that you were willing to waste so much time doing research on me, but I'm not.
> 
> For the record, I would prefer that you address me with the formal Ms. Green in the future. I don't consider you my friend and you assume too close a relationship by using a given name.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Scary, huh?

(not)


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Scary, huh?


Stupid too. Unbelievable. and she is going to sue YOU for libel???


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Stupid too. Unbelievable. and she is going to sue YOU for libel???


I've seen the same sort of bluff and bluster from leaders of cliques of 12-year-old adolescents and schoolyard bullies. The sort of mentality that says, "if you're not with me, you're against me and must be attacked and punished." Often accompanied by foot stamping and tears.

It's always amusing to me when a person makes a charge of "liar" and yet fails to provide any specifics as to what the supposed lie was. Of course, this is just classic name-calling and really means nothing. Shaking my head and laughing at silliness.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> You don't even have to oppose KC - just question her "facts" and she gets upset. Point out the difference between an opinion and a "fact" and she gets upset. Obviously, she is accustomed to another thread where her statements are applauded by others, no matter how prejudiced, irrational, or illogical. But then, that's how the extremists on the right operate - throw out lies and hateful statements and the crowd shouts, "Yeah!"


Good post.

Also accurate.

Sad thing is that the people you and I are talking about DO NOT UNDERSTAND OR REALIZE THAT THEY ARE SO!!!

THEY THINK THAT THEY ARE BOTH NORMAL AND FULLY RATIONAL....

They will never understand why we are so talking about them in such a manner.....

You have to be able to take a backward step and watch yourself from afar.......very few can do this, even fewer understand this.....

Thank your God that we can do this.....we are very lucky......

Good post as I said before.

Thanks

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> In my initial innocence, I was unaware of people like you who have a desire to stalk others.
> 
> Since you seem thoroughly familiar with my history, you have no doubt noticed that I have never used my given name since so you and your friends had to go searching for the one instance where it was posted. For what purpose? It would seem sinister if you had not proven on so many occasions to be nothing more than ridiculous.


I think you should, for the good of KP, think about possibly doing the following as she is threatening you with a lawyer:-

Require that KPG (did I get that right?) actually tries to take you to court, (make sure its a Jury court!) you will get millions back from her (hopefully she is insured!) once all her posts her are open to full public scrutiny and are fully revealed.

You will become one rich Lady.

I'm jealous!!

regards

Andy

She may also have to consider jail or even prison time.....especially if she has already served time, or even simply been accused of similar acts before.....


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG - the idiocy of her words! If she didn't want her name to be used, why the heck did she introduce herself as Diane?
> 
> I see that you have been on longer than she Joey, no wonder you know her actual name and have used it - it is how DGreen introduced herself on a *public* forum! If she wanted privacy, she certainly has a funny way going about maintaining same.
> 
> ...


You completely missed the point again (whats new?), she does not want YOU to address her by her given name!

Nice friendly people are still allowed, only YOU are NOT to use it!!!

FINALLY UNDERSTOOD ?

By the way, I am "Andy" for pleasant people here only, THATS NOT YOU!!

You can call me by my Avatar (assuming you know what that is!)

Reminder

Der Fisherman
(Look it up in Stephen King!!)


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> You completely missed the point again (whats new?), she does not want YOU to address her by her given name!
> 
> Nice friendly people are still allowed, only YOU are NOT to use it!!!
> 
> ...


Good post, Andy! By the way, Stephen King is one of my favorite authors. But not to read just before bedtime.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> I wouldn't care if President Obama were Muslim, atheist, Christian, whatever. But I would think it progressive of the U.S. to have a Muslim president.


I so agree GW. Even if he were Muslim or anything else it would make no difference. Small minds cannot grasp anything but narrow minded provincial thoughts. I think anything they do not understand is too frightening for them and therefore must be bad or evil for it to make sense. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> Good post.
> 
> Also accurate.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: Thank you again.


----------



## WindingRoad (May 7, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Good post.
> 
> Also accurate.
> 
> ...


Is all this thinking new for you?


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> It shouldn't matter, since we supposedly have religious freedom here in the US.
> 
> My guess is that right wing extremists want to use hysteria over islam as an opportunity to attack Obama. They'll stop at nothing to spread hate for him. Fortunately, a lot of people recognize it for what it is. Interesting, isn't it, no one is calling for the right wing darlings to prove they are christian - there's about as much evidence Obama is a muslim as evidence that Santorum is muslim.


You are completely right. I was at fault for believing the dummies here. I looked up his religion and found the following at here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Religious_views

*Religious views
Obama and First Lady worship at African Methodist Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C., January 2013

Obama is a Christian whose religious views developed in his adult life.[363] He wrote in The Audacity of Hope that he "was not raised in a religious household". He described his mother, raised by non-religious parents (whom Obama has specified elsewhere as "non-practicing Methodists and Baptists"), as being detached from religion, yet "in many ways the most spiritually awakened person that I have ever known." He described his father as a "confirmed atheist" by the time his parents met, and his stepfather as "a man who saw religion as not particularly useful." Obama explained how, through working with black churches as a community organizer while in his twenties, he came to understand "the power of the African-American religious tradition to spur social change."[364]

In January 2008, Obama told Christianity Today: "I am a Christian, and I am a devout Christian. I believe in the redemptive death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that faith gives me a path to be cleansed of sin and have eternal life."[365] On September 27, 2010, Obama released a statement commenting on his religious views saying "I'm a Christian by choice. My family didn'tfrankly, they weren't folks who went to church every week. And my mother was one of the most spiritual people I knew, but she didn't raise me in the church. So I came to my Christian faith later in life, and it was because the precepts of Jesus Christ spoke to me in terms of the kind of life that I would want to leadbeing my brothers' and sisters' keeper, treating others as they would treat me."[366][367]

Obama met Trinity United Church of Christ pastor Rev. Jeremiah Wright in October 1987, and became a member of Trinity in 1992.[368] He resigned from Trinity in May 2008 during his first presidential campaign after some of Wright's statements were criticized.[369] After a prolonged effort to find a church to attend regularly in Washington, Obama announced in June 2009 that his primary place of worship would be the Evergreen Chapel at Camp David.[370]*

Well done, you were the very first here to bring the truth about Barrack in the light. Thanks

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> I think you should, for the good of KP, think about possibly doing the following as she is threatening you with a lawyer:-
> 
> Require that KPG (did I get that right?) actually tries to take you to court, (make sure its a Jury court!) you will get millions back from her (hopefully she is insured!) once all her posts her are open to full public scrutiny and are fully revealed.
> 
> ...


Nah. I have many other, more rewarding and satisfying things to do with my life. Litigation is such a negative thing - I try to fill my time with positives. I actually spend a lot of time with local Democratic politics, working to make sure the conservatives are defeated in the 2016 election. I think many Americans are fed up with the shenanigans and regressive policies of the right wing, particularly the extremists in the Tea Party. We focus on voter identification and registration, informing voters, raising funds for good progressive candidates, that sort of thing. I'm hoping the Democrats learned a lesson in 2014 - sit on your backsides instead of voting and you get what you asked for. Fortunately, the current crop of crazies in Washington seem hell-bent to make sure the world knows what they are like.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You will change your mind, when you are dying. Then it will be too late.
> 
> I challenge you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it.


You have gone completely over the edge. Do you realize how crazy you sound? 
One only has to prove to God what kind of Christian they are, not the entire world. You should know that already.
Shame on you!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Finally, someone is telling the truth. But 0bama lied about being a Christian so he could be elected.


I was mistaken, by my believing some of the posts here, he is a practicing Christian.

Not that it matters either way, a good Muslim has many similar beliefs the same as a Christian.

I have been reading the Koran on and off for some years, there are some points I disagree about, but nothing serious, though females might see it otherwise...

But there is none of the beliefs of ISIS in there.....

Tom Clancy had a good idea to stop Islamic Terrorists. If anyone wants to know what it was (I forget which book) just ask me.

Sorry that my post mislead you, it was unintentional....I was mislead too by the bigots here....

regards

Andy


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Go ahead and keep libeling me, Diane. I've never stalked you or anyone in my life nor had the desire. No doubt you've noticed, I mostly ignore you.
> 
> Here's a promise I won't break: I'll forward your libeling posts to my attorney.


You libel yourself. Go ahead and forward your psychotic posts.
Your attorney will be laughing his butt off. One needs a legal name in order to be "libeled"
Just stop your nonsense and get a real life.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You libel yourself. Go ahead and forward your psychotic posts.
> Your attorney will be laughing his butt off. One needs a legal name in order to be "libeled"
> Just stop your nonsense and get a real life.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> I was mistaken, by my believing some of the posts here, he is a practicing Christian.
> 
> Not that it matters either way, a good Muslim has many similar beliefs the same as a Christian.
> 
> ...


Have you read any books by Vince Flynn? Yeah, those RWN's will mislead and lie to you every time Andy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> You libel yourself. Go ahead and forward your psychotic posts.
> Your attorney will be laughing his butt off. One needs a legal name in order to be "libeled"
> Just stop your nonsense and get a real life.


Shhhh...I was secretly hoping she would pay a whole bunch of money to an attorney to find that out.

The lawyer definitely would laugh his ass off - all the way to the bank.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Shhhh...I was secretly hoping she would pay a whole bunch of money to an attorney to find that out.
> 
> The lawyer definitely would laugh his ass off - all the way to the bank.


My thought exactly, D! :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Good post, Andy! By the way, Stephen King is one of my favorite authors. But not to read just before bedtime.


Too true!!! Mine as well.....

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> My thought exactly, D! :XD: :XD: :XD:


Trouble is, she can easily pay an imaginary lawyer filing a lawsuit on behalf of an imaginary persona with the imaginary money she gets when anyone on KP mentions her name.

Cha Ching!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Trouble is, she can easily pay an imaginary lawyer filing a lawsuit on behalf of an imaginary persona with the imaginary money she gets when anyone on KP mentions her name.
> 
> Cha Ching!


If she had spoken the truth and gave my name to her lawyer, to start a libel suit as she threatened to do if I posted her name ,I am sure I would have heard by now - after she searched my name and address (which isn't hidden). dream world, that is for sure.

Any way,we are heading out for a visit with our kids, ttyal.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Text deleted to save space.
> 
> Thank you for your reasoned comments and for sharing some background. Interesting post.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Where do they get these ideas? To what purpose?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Obama says he is a christian. That's the best source there is - from his own mouth. http://www.jpost.com/International/Obama-dismisses-Muslim-faith-claims-says-he-is-devout-Christian-389267
> 
> You and others like you are the ones who make false claims and who challenge his statement about his faith. I've seen plenty of purported "proof" posted by the right wing, none of which holds up to scrutiny. Supposition, deduction based on interpretation of comments, you name it.
> 
> ...


Their comments are based on lies and rumors, having no purpose.

Let's try and think this through. IF they found/created a document stating that President Barack Obama was a Muslim, it would not affect his right to be President of the United States. Or is there another reason this is so important to them?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't lie about you. You are a self-aggrandizing trouble maker.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Liar!!!!
> 
> You have no proof that I've made false claims on Obama's faith because I HAVE not.
> 
> Read your own lies about proving your words. I will not respond to your posts but will defend myself against your lies about me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Can't tell whether you mean you have made no claims about Obama's faith or whether you have never made false claims.
> 
> Touchy, aren't you? I see you have reverted to your favorite tactic of automatically screaming "liar" when anyone disagrees with you. It might be helpful for you to get a grip on rationality. Since I'm confident you will continue to behave irrationally, I'm going to revert to my own tactic of ignoring you. Wish I could say it's been nice conversing with you, but that definitely WOULD BE a lie.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

None of this, IF it were true, would disqualify President Barack Obama from holding the office he does. Live with it.



theyarnlady said:


> this is what I know as truth about President.
> 
> Mother join in Muslim faith
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So what?



joeysomma said:


> Matthew 7: 15-20 (NKJV) You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
> 
> _15 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Their comments are based on lies and rumors, having no purpose.
> 
> Let's try and think this through. IF they found/created a document stating that President Barack Obama was a Muslim, it would not affect his right to be President of the United States. Or is there another reason this is so important to them?


It's important to them because it's all they do. They hate. They whine. They wait for more misinformation to be entered in to those little pea brains of theirs. 
I was wondering how soon it would take for all of the "Everything is Obama's fault and we hate him" posts to begin by Kint CRAZY and the other moron. Not as soon as I expected, but there nonetheless.
Yawn....BORING! Same old same old bigotry and hate out of them. What happens if they amazingly get to heaven and find out Jesus is black? I would love to be the butterfly on St Peter's gate to see that!

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Go read a real book.



joeysomma said:


> You will change your mind, when you are dying. Then it will be too late.
> 
> I challenge you to list 6 things that 0bama has done to show that he IS a Christian, as he claims. Then post the websites to prove it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I've told you before - I've faced death a couple of times in the last year or two - particularly as I was being taken to surgery after a very serious heart attack. The chance of me dying that day was pretty much 50-50 and I knew that. I've also had a stroke fairly recently. The thought of god never entered my mind at those moments. I'm the real thing, Joey. Atheist through and through and your completely unfounded predictions about me are laughable. There ARE atheists in foxholes - people like me whose intellectual integrity is intact and healthy.
> 
> Obama professes to be a christian. I don't need to prove it - the claim comes from the man himself and I posted a source earlier. Saying he is a muslim is an attempt to smear him, presumably because being muslim is a bad thing - or to prove he is lying. In this case, you are the one making an unsubstantiated claim and I don't need or care to prove how Obama demonstrates his christiany to you. His statements are all I need.
> 
> I know all about the websites that supposedly prove what you say but each and every one is bogus. Those youtube videos are the products of "quote mining" where a few words are taken out of context then strung together as "evidence" of his muslim faith. Produced by people with a distinct agenda. Let me assure you, even I have the skills needed to produce exactly the same kind of video to prove anything I would care to prove - it's not at all difficult if one has the motive to deceive people or further an agenda. (I'm currently assisting in production of a video to further the cause of Amnesty International for a local group, so I'm not blowing smoke as to my skill set). Of course you believe them because you are looking for validation for your obvious hatred of the man. You're welcome to your delusions - hope you enjoy them.


It is obvious that the majority of voters do not share these delusions since they elected President Barack Obama to the highest elected office in this country.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> It is obvious that the majority of voters do not share these delusions since they elected President Barack Obama to the highest elected office in this country.


Twice!!


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

der_fisherman said:


> You are completely right. I was at fault for believing the dummies here. I looked up his religion and found the following at here:-
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barack_Obama#Religious_views
> 
> ...


Sounds like the epitome of Christianity to me!
Along with his bucking SOOOOOOO much opposition to assure that ALL of us have the health care we need, and so many other Christian type acts. 
But again, as so many have stated, it does NOT matter what or if the President's religion is! America is a diverse country and the President is the President of all citizens, religious or not!


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

DGreen said:


> I've told you before - I've faced death a couple of times in the last year or two - particularly as I was being taken to surgery after a very serious heart attack. The chance of me dying that day was pretty much 50-50 and I knew that. I've also had a stroke fairly recently. The thought of god never entered my mind at those moments. I'm the real thing, Joey. Atheist through and through and your completely unfounded predictions about me are laughable. There ARE atheists in foxholes - people like me whose intellectual integrity is intact and healthy.
> 
> Obama professes to be a christian. I don't need to prove it - the claim comes from the man himself and I posted a source earlier. Saying he is a muslim is an attempt to smear him, presumably because being muslim is a bad thing - or to prove he is lying. In this case, you are the one making an unsubstantiated claim and I don't need or care to prove how Obama demonstrates his christiany to you. His statements are all I need.
> 
> I know all about the websites that supposedly prove what you say but each and every one is bogus. Those youtube videos are the products of "quote mining" where a few words are taken out of context then strung together as "evidence" of his muslim faith. Produced by people with a distinct agenda. Let me assure you, even I have the skills needed to produce exactly the same kind of video to prove anything I would care to prove - it's not at all difficult if one has the motive to deceive people or further an agenda. (I'm currently assisting in production of a video to further the cause of Amnesty International for a local group, so I'm not blowing smoke as to my skill set). Of course you believe them because you are looking for validation for your obvious hatred of the man. You're welcome to your delusions - hope you enjoy them.


DGreen, I am so sorry to hear of your health challenges. Hugs to you!


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

In a speech in India, Obama said,
"In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned -- by people who dont know me -- or theyve said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing,'' he said.

The president was referring to rumors that he is Muslim, not Christian. 

Speaking about both the US and India, Obama touted the variety of faiths practiced in both nations. ''Our nations are strongest when we see that we are all Gods children -- all equal in His eyes and worthy of His love. Across our two great countries we have Hindus and Muslims, Christians and Sikhs, and Jews and Buddhists and Jains and so many faiths.''


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'm breaking my promise not to respond to you.
> 
> YOu break your promise not to respond every time you post. You promise you are not ever going to respond again and even in the same post you attack. Then the next time and the next time. It really gets boring.
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> In a speech in India, Obama said,
> "In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned -- by people who dont know me -- or theyve said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing,'' he said.
> 
> The president was referring to rumors that he is Muslim, not Christian.
> ...


Thanks for posting this, Beth. :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks for posting this, Beth. :thumbup: :thumbup:


It says it all - nice to meet you Beth


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> DGreen, I am so sorry to hear of your health challenges. Hugs to you!


Thank you so much!

I'm happy to report that my recovery from my "widowmaker" (100% blockage of the LAD - very bad) has been remarkable. Lost 30 pounds, retired to reduce stress, my cholesterol is at 106, my blood pressure is 120/70 and while there has been damage, my heart function is quite good. My cardiologist is very happy with my rehab. I worked hard at it and I feel better than I have in years.

Now to figure out how to prevent another stroke!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> In a speech in India, Obama said,
> "In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned -- by people who dont know me -- or theyve said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing,'' he said.
> 
> The president was referring to rumors that he is Muslim, not Christian.
> ...


Perfect.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> Sounds like the epitome of Christianity to me!
> Along with his bucking SOOOOOOO much opposition to assure that ALL of us have the health care we need, and so many other Christian type acts.
> But again, as so many have stated, it does NOT matter what or if the President's religion is! America is a diverse country and the President is the President of all citizens, religious or not!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree whole-hardheartedly.



BethP0201 said:


> In a speech in India, Obama said,
> "In our lives, Michelle and I have been strengthened by our Christian faith. But there have been times where my faith has been questioned -- by people who dont know me -- or theyve said that I adhere to a different religion, as if that were somehow a bad thing,'' he said.
> 
> The president was referring to rumors that he is Muslim, not Christian.
> ...


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

damemary said:


> It is obvious that the majority of voters do not share these delusions since they elected President Barack Obama to the highest elected office in this country.


TWICE!!

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> As long as you degrade my God, and call the Bible a fraud, you will never earn respect.


I am very interested in YOU posting the information/facts that you claim DGreen wrote, for all here to read.

Including the Lady herself....

I could not find any of it at all in a search that I made, maybe I missed it....are you sure you are not attributing someone else's post to her????

Thanks for both your understanding and the dates/times of the said error(s).

By the way, I am sure God (whichever one you mean) is not just "yours" as you imply, he is "shared" by all I feel!!!

If you are unable to show such comments as I believe, I recommend to all concerned here to treat your post as "Hearsay" only and completely untrue. :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Then an apology would be a REALLY good idea as well......(before Hell freezes over would be really good! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: )

OK?

Thanks in advance for your help in this matter

Andy


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for your clear-cut comments.



der_fisherman said:


> I am very interested in YOU posting the information/facts that you claim DGreen wrote, for all here to read.
> 
> Including the Lady herself....
> 
> ...


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I think not. You have not earned a title of respect. You can call me by any degrading name in the book, and I cannot call you by your first name, that I have been using since December, and you provided. As long as you degrade my God, and call the Bible a fraud, you will never earn respect.


.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> If she had spoken the truth and gave my name to her lawyer, to start a libel suit as she threatened to do if I posted her name ,I am sure I would have heard by now - after she searched my name and address (which isn't hidden). dream world, that is for sure.


You are lying again Designer. I did not threaten you, nor tell you I would give your name to my lawyer and start a libel suit against you. I did turn a few of your posts over to Admin when you libeled me, and I posted publicly when I did so because I speak the truth.

I also have said I'll defend myself whenever someone falsely accuses me (so here I am keeping my word). At the time, I had been ignoring, not reading and not responding to your posts as I also said I would.

I suggest you learn to speak the truth and learn to comprehend what you read.

Here's my post you are referring to: (Jan 2015)



knitpresentgifts said:


> Either you stop or will be stopped. I'm not putting up with your libel and defamation of me anymore. READ THIS: I will start reading your posts and collecting all those in which you falsely insult, accuse or attack me. I will turn in each post to Admin so he is aware of your antics.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's important to them because it's all they do. They hate. They whine. They wait for more misinformation to be entered in to those little pea brains of theirs.
> I was wondering how soon it would take for all of the "Everything is Obama's fault and we hate him" posts to begin by Kint CRAZY and the other moron. Not as soon as I expected, but there nonetheless.
> Yawn....BORING! Same old same old bigotry and hate out of them. What happens if they amazingly get to heaven and find out Jesus is black? I would love to be the butterfly on St Peter's gate to see that!
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


The person who emphatically stated Obama is a Muslim was Andy/Lisa/der fisherman. The _only_ people on this thread who accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being a racist are the Libs. The _only_ people who posted support more than just their opinions, other than one link by DGreen (which I personally did not look at), are non-Libs who posted evidence so that anyone could make up their own mind after reviewing the evidence.

The _only_ people who added nothing to the conversation other than "blah, blah, blah" and similes are the Libs, gang style.

Libs boring? You betcha! Bigots? - You can judge yourselves. Ill-informed? Always. Claiming everything is the Republs or Bush's fault? Yawn. Name-calling and insulting non-Libs? That's all the Libs know. Libs expressing hate, lying and whining? Again and often. Libs accepting and open to other's ideas? Never. Libs denying Jesus and ridiculing Christians? But, of course. Libs ruining another thread? Accomplished.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I think not. You have not earned a title of respect. You can call me by any degrading name in the book, and I cannot call you by your first name, that I have been using since December, and you provided. As long as you degrade my God, and call the Bible a fraud, you will never earn respect.


Bravo!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> I am very interested in YOU posting the information/facts that you claim DGreen wrote, for all here to read.
> 
> Including the Lady herself....
> 
> ...


Way to go Andy! Unfortunately, I think engendering an apology is a bit of a stretch however, you've successfully articulated the situation. Brava!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The person who emphatically stated Obama is a Muslim was Andy/Lisa/der fisherman. The _only_ people on this thread who accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being a racist are the Libs. The _only_ people who posted support more than just their opinions, other than one link by DGreen (which I personally did not look at), are non-Libs who posted evidence so that anyone could make up their own mind after reviewing the evidence.
> 
> The _only_ people who added nothing to the conversation other than "blah, blah, blah" and similes are the Libs, gang style.
> 
> Libs boring? You betcha! Bigots? - You can judge yourselves. Ill-informed? Always. Claiming everything is the Republs or Bush's fault? Yawn. Name-calling and insulting non-Libs? That's all the Libs know. Libs expressing hate, lying and whining? Again and often. Libs accepting and open to other's ideas? Never. Libs denying Jesus and ridiculing Christians? But, of course. Libs ruining another thread? Accomplished.


What you're writing is embarrassing. For you. Stop already!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Anyway, on to something a tad more important. Just caught the following article which both startled and impressed me. And it is relevant to this thread:

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/19/16/15/gun-shop-stunt-makes-would-be-buyers-question-weapons-ability-to-potect-them


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

After giving it some thought, I realize how silly I've been to make an issue over KPG and Joey using my given name. After all, who cares if they gain some sense of power or superiority by doing so? Since I'm positive I have not publicly posted anything they could use to drain my bank account, what difference does it make? It is not as though I expect either of them to show up at my door or sit in a car at the end of the block to watch me with binoculars. 

Engaging them in discussion once in a while can be very instructive, however. It serves as a reminder of the kind of thinking we liberals are up against and the agenda of the extreme right wing. As pointed out on another thread yesterday and as I have been pointing out for some time, the powers that be are gleefully using their small minds, ingrained prejudices and inability to think critically to further an agenda. We are allowing ourselves to be distracted while those powers work behind the scenes to destroy our country. While we are fighting the fire set in the back yard, the burglars are stealing everything they can from the house.

It is my sincere belief that the Kochs and other big businesses have a higher agenda and that is to eliminate our federal government one piece at a time in the interest of stripping away all regulations and common sense laws in order to increase profits and power. The common good, the majority of the population and the destruction of the earth mean nothing to them. Go to "ALEC Exposed" website to learn more about how they plan to go about gaining control of the US. Prepare to experience dismay and outrage.

They are making progress at doing so.

What do we argue about? THE RIGHT WING AGENDA. We allow them to frame the conversation. There is no doubt we need to fight to retain the progress made in the last 50-60 years. We need to protect the rights of all people; minorities, LGBT, women, the poor. At the same time we must not lose sight of what is going on that we hear little about or to which we pay little attention.

I see what is happening in Arizona and even though our lawmakers are on the leading edge of crazy, we are not alone. Across the country the diabolical organization known as ALEC is busy promoting and passing legislation intended solely to weaken our federal government. The common thread is the defiance of federal law in the furtherance of the idea of "state sovereignty." Every piece of legislation they write and promote and distribute to every state legislature across the country is specifically designed to create chaos and turmoil and to weaken the "united" part of the United States. If we allow them to succeed, prepare for a world in which corporations can buy state legislatures and pollute at will, extract resources without limit and where you and I are reduced to virtual serfdom.

Let me make it clear; I'm not a conspiracy theorist in the traditional sense. I do not subscribe to the idea that some "New World Order" is behind this trend. We don't need to invent some great and powerful, shadowy, secret organization when we have the Kochs and ALEC. They are real, they can be named, and they are extremely motivated to fulfill their vision of power and wealth.

Imagine, if you will, a country where each state has control of their environmental protection regulations, land management, civil rights law, labor law, safety regulations, public assistance, health and insurance regulations, social security (continue with every aspect of life regulated by the federal government) and each is dictated by the individual state. We are looking at chaos, exploitation and government by corporations.

ALEC has a published agenda to change the constitution so as to allow states to overturn Supreme Court decisions, to make the Supreme Court itself completely politicized by limiting terms of the justices. Their agenda includes repealing the 17th amendment so you and I would no longer be able to elect our own senators (this is a very, very powerful position).

One of the most onerous items on their agenda is to force the REAUTHORIZATION of every federal agency every three years and that all federal agencies be subject to a "sunset provision." What would ensue would be the kind of gridlock that would make the last 6 years look like a progressive dream. Every agency the right wing does not like would be fought over on a continuing basis. The Food and Drug Administration, the FAA, the EPA, Social Security, Medicare, the CDC, the Transportation Safety Board, the National Labor Relations Board, the list is huge. Imagine if you will, how your own well being would be affected. Imagine if you will, the kind of arguments you would hear from people like KPG and Joey and Knit Crazy over the relative benefit of federal regulation. 

The laws being proposed TODAY in states across the country may not have much chance of passage, but the tactic is to get the arguments going, to get the fundies and the libertarians and the crazies worked up and to get you and I used to the idea - after all, the lies and talking points and arguments used by the right wing, repeated often enough, over time are believed as gospel. Like the lies told about Obama. People believe these things. This tactic has worked before and the right wing will continue to use it and even increase their efforts.

ALEC has proposed 10 constitutional amendments as part of their agenda. They already have 18 states on board to carry out their plan. I could use another page or two to detail their terrifying plan.

Doom and gloom? Yes. 

We have 24 people at our Democratic Club meeting last night, which was a pretty good turnout. Each one of us has a passion for Democracy and the fire of conviction. But we are so few. Where are the rest of us? We liberals need to step up and defeat these monsters in 2016.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I have personally been a target of stalking by the very person calling 'Liar' the loudest. I'm confident now that everyone knows how to protect themselves. PM me if you need to talk.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nothing stops her except herself. She'll disappear when she thinks she's accomplished her goal. What do you think she actually proves?



Wombatnomore said:


> What you're writing is embarrassing. For you. Stop already!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting.



Wombatnomore said:


> Anyway, on to something a tad more important. Just caught the following article which both startled and impressed me. And it is relevant to this thread:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/19/16/15/gun-shop-stunt-makes-would-be-buyers-question-weapons-ability-to-potect-them


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

damemary said:


> I have personally been a target of stalking by the very person calling 'Liar' the loudest. I'm confident now that everyone knows how to protect themselves. PM me if you need to talk.


damemary, Your statement is a bald-faced lie and has been reported to Admin.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> After giving it some thought, I realize how silly I've been to make an issue over KPG and Joey using my given name. After all, who cares if they gain some sense of power or superiority by doing so? Since I'm positive I have not publicly posted anything they could use to drain my bank account, what difference does it make? It is not as though I expect either of them to show up at my door or sit in a car at the end of the block to watch me with binoculars.
> 
> Engaging them in discussion once in a while can be very instructive, however. It serves as a reminder of the kind of thinking we liberals are up against and the agenda of the extreme right wing. As pointed out on another thread yesterday and as I have been pointing out for some time, the powers that be are gleefully using their small minds, ingrained prejudices and inability to think critically to further an agenda. We are allowing ourselves to be distracted while those powers work behind the scenes to destroy our country. While we are fighting the fire set in the back yard, the burglars are stealing everything they can from the house.
> 
> ...


Thank you for showing the necessity of focusing our attention on the real agenda. Bravo.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thank you for showing the necessity of focusing our attention on the real agenda. Bravo.


You mean, threats of lawsuits and arguments over Obama's religion are not the most important issues?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

As much as gay marriage and abortion are the most important issues in the general elections.



DGreen said:


> You mean, threats of lawsuits and arguments over Obama's religion are not the most important issues?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> As much as gay marriage and abortion are the most important issues in the general elections.


Nailed it, Dame.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm sure glad I'm missed the first 32 pages of this one! The same old posturing, calling people liars, charging people with libel, and drumming up business for attorneys. Lots of crap words from the right with no substance.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen said:


> After giving it some thought, I realize how silly I've been to make an issue over KPG and Joey using my given name. After all, who cares if they gain some sense of power or superiority by doing so? Since I'm positive I have not publicly posted anything they could use to drain my bank account, what difference does it make? It is not as though I expect either of them to show up at my door or sit in a car at the end of the block to watch me with binoculars.
> 
> Engaging them in discussion once in a while can be very instructive, however. It serves as a reminder of the kind of thinking we liberals are up against and the agenda of the extreme right wing. As pointed out on another thread yesterday and as I have been pointing out for some time, the powers that be are gleefully using their small minds, ingrained prejudices and inability to think critically to further an agenda. We are allowing ourselves to be distracted while those powers work behind the scenes to destroy our country. While we are fighting the fire set in the back yard, the burglars are stealing everything they can from the house.
> 
> ...


Thank you for taking the time for this excellent post!!
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

[/URL]
Good Job, Green!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Thank you for taking the time for this excellent post!!
> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Seems to me if we keep the true issues in the forefront, ignoring the "others" will be easy.

Seriously, lawsuits for "libel" of an anonymous persona? Notice, even after this serious flaw in the idea of a lawsuit was pointed out, the threats have been repeated.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Good Job, Green![/quote]
> 
> Thank you, Designer. How about you becoming an American citizen? We need you!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Popularly known as same old; same old.



cookiequeen said:


> I'm sure glad I'm missed the first 32 pages of this one! The same old posturing, calling people liars, charging people with libel, and drumming up business for attorneys. Lots of crap words from the right with no substance.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We would even grant joint citizenship to one so valued as you.



DGreen said:


> Thank you, Designer. How about you becoming an American citizen? We need you!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Thank you, Designer. How about you becoming an American citizen? We need you!


Sorry friend - Thanks - I am a Canadian through and through. I have learned so much from all of you. I think sometimes someone from a different place who has been around a long time can contribute knowledge, if nothing else.

Your country affects my country, what happens there influences what happens here. It matters to us what happens in the U.S.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And Canadians are our friends and allies. I trust your opinions.



Designer1234 said:


> Sorry friend - Thanks - I am a Canadian through and through. I have learned so much from all of you. I think sometimes someone from a different place who has been around a long time can contribute knowledge, if nothing else.
> 
> Your country affects my country, what happens there influences what happens here. It matters to us what happens in the U.S.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Sorry friend - Thanks - I am a Canadian through and through. I have learned so much from all of you. I think sometimes someone from a different place who has been around a long time can contribute knowledge, if nothing else.
> 
> Your country affects my country, what happens there influences what happens here. It matters to us what happens in the U.S.


Stay tuned, then. It promises to be a bumpy ride ahead.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

To all Democrats: YOUR HELP IS NEEDED


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Tell us what we can do besides VOTE.



DGreen said:


> To all Democrats: YOUR HELP IS NEEDED


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Tell us what we can do besides VOTE.


Write to your representatives. Even if you are ignored, they will know you're out there. They DO keep track. Call them, too. Leave a message. SPEAK UP

Encourage others to vote

Give $$ to the candidate of your choice (I won't give to the national party - they're part of the problem)

Join your local party organization and volunteer - or just show up for meetings to share ideas and give support. Participate at whatever level you are able.

Identify yourself as a liberal. This encourages others to do the same.

Pay attention to what is going on in your state's legislative body. Don't take it from the news media - go to the source and see what is being proposed and passed and who did it.

Keep a running list of the egregious acts of the extremists to use when the election cycle rolls around. DON'T LET PEOPLE FORGET


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Nothing stops her except herself. She'll disappear when she thinks she's accomplished her goal. What do you think she actually proves?


What she thinks she proves is a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in a mystery. In other words, who knows? What I think she proves is that she is a histrionic. The end.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> And Canadians are our friends and allies. I trust your opinions.


We don't all agree up here - we have our Liberals and our Conservatives- up until recently, I voted for the person, not the party as I honestly couldn't see too much difference. I didn't care for those who were running for Liberals in nor did I like the people running for Prime Minister. I was happy with what our country stands for and the way we looked at the world. I didn't feel that the individual parties were so different in our basic ideas.

I voted Conservative in the last two elections, and have not really regretted it. However, the signs are that the far right is becoming more vocal and there seems to be more change in the air.

Alberta was called the 'Bible Belt' and most strong Conservatives were there. The Maritimes have, in my opinon, have been treated poorly by our Federal Government and especially the Fishing industry which was the main 
business of Newfoundland and the other Maritime Provinces although New Brunswick has a huge port in Halifax. We visited Newfoundland a few years ago and most of the fishing villages were gone, they were ghost towns. Many Newfoundlanders headed out to Alberta to work in the Oil and Gas Industry. The Alberta economy is feeling a huge 'hit' recently and jobs are suddenly disappearing, prices are going up and people are being laid off. It was a Province that was by far the richest in the country. Soo some of your problems down there are becoming our problems up here.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> We don't all agree up here - we have our Liberals and our Conservatives- up until recently, I voted for the person, not the party as I honestly couldn't see too much difference. I didn't care for those who were running for Liberals in nor did I like the people running for Prime Minister. I was happy with what our country stands for and the way we looked at the world. I didn't feel that the individual parties were so different in our basic ideas.
> 
> I voted Conservative in the last two elections, and have not really regretted it. However, the signs are that the far right is becoming more vocal and there seems to be more change in the air.
> 
> ...


There was a time when there wasn't "a dime's worth of difference" between the conservatives and republicans in the US because both parties tried to be moderate and centrist.

Big money has destroyed that.

Remember when Barry Goldwater was seen as extreme right wing? His wife helped establish Planned Parenthood in Arizona. For an interesting perspective on how things have changed in the republican party, here is a short but interesting article about Peggy Goldwater who hosted women's gatherings in the home she shared with Barry.

http://womensheritagetrail.org/women/PeggyGoldwater.php


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The person who emphatically stated Obama is a Muslim was Andy/Lisa/der fisherman. The _only_ people on this thread who accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being a racist are the Libs. The _only_ people who posted support more than just their opinions, other than one link by DGreen (which I personally did not look at), are non-Libs who posted evidence so that anyone could make up their own mind after reviewing the evidence.
> 
> The _only_ people who added nothing to the conversation other than "blah, blah, blah" and similes are the Libs, gang style.
> 
> Libs boring? You betcha! Bigots? - You can judge yourselves. Ill-informed? Always. Claiming everything is the Republs or Bush's fault? Yawn. Name-calling and insulting non-Libs? That's all the Libs know. Libs expressing hate, lying and whining? Again and often. Libs accepting and open to other's ideas? Never. Libs denying Jesus and ridiculing Christians? But, of course. Libs ruining another thread? Accomplished.


Actually, I foolishly believed other posters here, then I checked up myself, found out that they were completely wrong and simply retracted my comments completely.......and apologised for my error....

But of course, you "forgot" to mention that!!! As it does not fit the twist you want to put on this blog, does it?

This makes you look as foolish as I was.........but bitchier maybe?

You should have known about my retraction had you been keeping properly up to date, or did you simply miss a few days of posts?

It would be really nice to know why?

Regards

Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> Actually, I foolishly believed other posters here, then I checked up myself, found out that they were completely wrong and simply retracted my comments completely.......and apologised for my error....
> 
> But of course, you "forgot" to mention that!!! As it does not fit the twist you want to put on this blog, does it?
> 
> ...


Andy, it doesn't require a lot of analysis to figure out why your retraction was disregarded. I predict you will either get no reply, or will be the recipient of a nasty diatribe in which the word "liar" will be used liberally.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Anyway, on to something a tad more important. Just caught the following article which both startled and impressed me. And it is relevant to this thread:
> 
> http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/03/19/16/15/gun-shop-stunt-makes-would-be-buyers-question-weapons-ability-to-potect-them


Really good clip, thanks for sharing.

I would guess the 60% is a lower than the actual percentage if the Americans I meet online are anything to go by......the "protection" propaganda has reached most of them.....now it has become "fact"!

You could call that the "crux" of the gun problem.....    

I cannot imagine a turn about anymore......it is going to get a LOT worse, before it gets better.......
Andy


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> Really good clip, thanks for sharing.
> 
> I would guess the 60% is a lower than the actual percentage if the Americans I meet online are anything to go by......the "protection" propaganda has reached most of them.....now it has become "fact"!
> 
> ...


There are also many who simply enjoy shooting guns. They believe their "right" to have fun is more compelling than any public safety concern. They don't care if children or innocent people get killed daily so long as they can play with their AR-15's. Sick.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Andy, it doesn't require a lot of analysis to figure out why your retraction was disregarded. I predict you will either get no reply, or will be the recipient of a nasty diatribe in which the word "liar" will be used liberally.


You are most probably right, but I feel its a small price to pay for getting someone "outing" themselves publically here, don't you agree.........

I bet she has no answer and will let my post just "slide" and hope that no one notices.....

Maybe I should remind her that I am waiting on a reply say once every 24 hours?

I could not give a "hoot and a holler" really about Obarma's religious views, he just needs to be a good president. He could even be an atheist....

Nothing more, nothing less.....

Stay well

Andy


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> You are most probably right, but I feel its a small price to pay for getting someone "outing" themselves publically here, don't you agree.........
> 
> I bet she has no answer and will let my post just "slide" and hope that no one notices.....
> 
> ...


I hope you stay on these Political threads Andy. It is great to have someone who is on the same general page as us. We are all different but with basic agreement on how we should care about people and live our own lives.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope you stay on these Political threads Andy. It is great to have someone who is on the same general page as us. We are all different but with basic agreement on how we should care about people and live our own lives.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Agree


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> You are most probably right, but I feel its a small price to pay for getting someone "outing" themselves publically here, don't you agree.........
> 
> I bet she has no answer and will let my post just "slide" and hope that no one notices.....
> 
> ...


I wouldn't bother sending reminders. Who wants to hear from that one, anyway?

Glad you don't care about the religious thing. Personally, I feel atheists make the best public servants. No religious baggage to color their decisions and thinking. Atheists tend to be free thinkers and not followers.

As mentioned on a different thread, and as you may know, some fundamentalist Christians in the US are actually hoping for "end times" so they can see Jesus. They argue against environmental protection because they believe man will not be on the earth much longer anyway, so why save it? War in the middle east? They think it's a good thing because "restoring" Jerusalem is a prerequisite to the second coming of Jesus. These people make up a disturbing and dangerous segment of our population. Did I say dangerous? I meant "demented."


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I've seen the same sort of bluff and bluster from leaders of cliques of 12-year-old adolescents and schoolyard bullies. The sort of mentality that says, "if you're not with me, you're against me and must be attacked and punished." Often accompanied by foot stamping and tears.
> 
> It's always amusing to me when a person makes a charge of "liar" and yet fails to provide any specifics as to what the supposed lie was. Of course, this is just classic name-calling and really means nothing. Shaking my head and laughing at silliness.


Reading your posts shows you have learned that lesson very well and have carried it on into your adult life. I am shaking my head and laughing at how silly it is to make such a big deal about nothing. So your first name was used, what's the big deal? You supplied it after all. The silliest by far, is saying that using your first name means the user is stalking you. It's time to shed your pre adolescent mentality and become the adult your body and age say you are. Somehow I know that will never happen.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks to you all.

I support common sense and complete honesty in everything.

I learned a long time ago that to be a good (wrong word!!) liar, you have to have an Einstein type brain (at least) to maintain the lies. I was simply never clever enough.....

At 17 I had a tested 138 IQ. In 2005 I think it was, I tested at 127.....its dropping!!

Though I myself hadn't noticed the change/difference.....     

Regards

Andy


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> You completely missed the point again (whats new?), she does not want YOU to address her by her given name!
> 
> Nice friendly people are still allowed, only YOU are NOT to use it!!!
> 
> ...


I prefer to call you Lisa. You are so much alike it's hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is no difference.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I prefer to call you Lisa. You are so much alike it's hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is no difference.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> Reading your posts shows you have learned that lesson very well and have carried it on into your adult life. I am shaking my head and laughing at how silly it is to make such a big deal about nothing. So your first name was used, what's the big deal? You supplied it after all. The silliest by far, is saying that using your first name means the user is stalking you. It's time to shed your pre adolescent mentality and become the adult your body and age say you are. Somehow I know that will never happen.


Now what has that to do with the price of fish? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Where I come from, you only allow people you like/respect to use your first name....

Perhaps manners are different where you were brought up...

I personally don't care either way, but if someone else did care, I would respect their wishes after being asked once and once only.

Its simple good manners to my mind.    

What say other folks here?

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> I prefer to call you Lisa. You are so much alike it's hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is no difference.


How puerile?

Andy


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The person who emphatically stated Obama is a Muslim was Andy/Lisa/der fisherman. The _only_ people on this thread who accuse anyone who does not agree with them of being a racist are the Libs. The _only_ people who posted support more than just their opinions, other than one link by DGreen (which I personally did not look at), are non-Libs who posted evidence so that anyone could make up their own mind after reviewing the evidence.
> 
> The _only_ people who added nothing to the conversation other than "blah, blah, blah" and similes are the Libs, gang style.
> 
> Libs boring? You betcha! Bigots? - You can judge yourselves. Ill-informed? Always. Claiming everything is the Republs or Bush's fault? Yawn. Name-calling and insulting non-Libs? That's all the Libs know. Libs expressing hate, lying and whining? Again and often. Libs accepting and open to other's ideas? Never. Libs denying Jesus and ridiculing Christians? But, of course. Libs ruining another thread? Accomplished.


Tell your problems to Jesus, KPG. He's a liberal too. :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I have personally been a target of stalking by the very person calling 'Liar' the loudest. I'm confident now that everyone knows how to protect themselves. PM me if you need to talk.


Please provide proof of your accusation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> What you're writing is embarrassing. For you. Stop already!


She has no sense of shame Wombat and never knows when to leave. She deceives only herself and acts like the world revolves around her navel. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I'm sure glad I'm missed the first 32 pages of this one! The same old posturing, calling people liars, charging people with libel, and drumming up business for attorneys. Lots of crap words from the right with no substance.


Why do you always ignore the "crap words with no substance" from those on the left? For example, this post.


----------



## Suula (Mar 24, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Now what has that to do with the price of fish? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Where I come from, you only allow people you like/respect to use your first name....
> 
> ...


I agree, we should always respect what someone wishes to be called by and not ignore their wishes, simple courtesy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> How puerile?
> 
> Andy


A bit of explanation, Andy.

Lisa was a member of this site who was kicked off by Administration. I'm not familiar with the actual circumstances, but since she was resoundingly hated by some of those who see he world as soloweygirl does, perhaps that had something to do with it. They will no doubt dispute that, but it doesn't matter in the least. She has been banned.

Every now and then, Lisa (also known as Vocal Lisa) will set up a new login under a different name and respond to posts or participate in a discussion. She is usually discovered by Admin (or perhaps is reported to Admin since Lisa must never be tolerated) quickly and she is blocked again. An ongoing game of cat-and-mouse and hit-and-run on Lisa's part. I believe she enjoys the game.

Consequently, there are some conservative regulars who are very suspicious of new members, particularly if their views are liberal or if they dispute crazy statements. The conservatives always call such people "Lisa" because they appear to think that their beliefs MUST be the majority beliefs and there couldn't possibly be very many liberals in existence. Hence, it MUST be Lisa posting under a new name. They seem to think ALL liberal regulars post under multiple names in order to make ourselves appear stronger.

You have earned the high honor of being suspected of being Lisa, posing as Andy. Of course, if you WERE Lisa, you most certainly would have been banned by now and all of your posts would have vanished. Admin understands IP addresses.

Added later

Note how KPG addresses you, as well. Apparently she thinks you are possibly Lisa because you disagree with her.

_The person who emphatically stated Obama is a Muslim was Andy/Lisa/der fisherman._


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> Now what has that to do with the price of fish? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Where I come from, you only allow people you like/respect to use your first name....
> 
> ...


Since you didn't notice, I didn't call her by her first name, or any other for that matter. BTW, she didn't ask, she demanded the user call her Ms Green. Had she asked, the user would have had no reason not to comply.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Since you didn't notice, I didn't call her by her first name, or any other for that matter. BTW, she didn't ask, she demanded the user call her Ms Green. Had she asked, the user would have had no reason not to comply.


I see KPG can't speak for herself now on this thread and had to bring in reinforcements. Nice try solo but you and your buddies'
puerile "thanks Andy, I liked the word!" behavior betray you all as a bunch of less than adequate and very needy adults. I guess bad attention for you and your lot is better than no attention at all :thumbdown: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You are really sad and pathetic and I am embarrassed for all of you.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Please provide proof of your accusation.


That's easy Solow. Read her posts in this thread. It's honestly hard to find one without the word "liar."


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She has no sense of shame Wombat and never knows when to leave. She deceives only herself and acts like the world revolves around her navel. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Now there's a questionable visual!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I see KPG can't speak for herself now on this thread and had to bring in reinforcements. Nice try solo but you and your buddies'
> puerile "thanks Andy, I liked the word!" behavior betray you all as a bunch of less than adequate and very needy adults. I guess bad attention for you and your lot is better than no attention at all :thumbdown: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You are really sad and pathetic and I am embarrassed for all of you.


Oh, dear, please do try to keep up with the discussion Cheeks. Green, who gave her name in her first post, get this, demanded Joeysomma call her something other than what she named herself! Green reported Joey for using the name she introduced herself, and then later admitted how silly she is. Gotta love anyone who recognizes self stupidity.

Now, to you; I suggest you go back to your "blah, blah, blah" verbiage as it makes you look less pathetic and foolish.

I began a discussion with Beth on this thread when none of the Lib gang was present and all was well, polite and informative. Then the Lib gang, led by you, arrive enmasse to attempt to ruin the discussion, the thread and me while adding nothing to the discussion.

That's when the insults and lies began (per usual) and it never succeeds or ends well for your gang.

You probably should rethink, if you can, and realign your losing strategies. Kinda reminds of all your failed and banned user names and Progressive Forum that no longer exists but that I heard all about.

:XD: :-D


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Always the spin.

For those of you keeping score, add another post to the long list that includes some iteration of "lie" or "liar." 

What was that about blah, blah, blah?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, dear, please do try to keep up with the discussion Cheeks. Green who gave her name in her first post, get this, demanded Joeysomma call her something other than what she named herself.
> 
> So, I suggest you go back to your blah, blah, blah as it makes you look less pathetic and foolish.
> 
> ...


And the biggest liar of all is back once again. You just can't stay away from us can you? As I said before you are a pathetic bunch. You follow us around like groupies. Admit it KPG you are infatuated with us and have a bad case of Liberal envy. Why else would you keep coming back? Go back to your quaint little black and white thread where you belong. You are way out of your league here as exhibited by your repeated childish talk, idle threats and lies. The only one who takes you seriously is you. You are just making yourself look foolish here and nobody cares to hear the ignorant drivel you spout. Thar she blows, you are as predictable as Old Faithful. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
Blah blah blah blah blah :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> I prefer to call you Lisa. You are so much alike it's hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is no difference.


Touche! What difference does it make now. :XD: :-D


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Now what has that to do with the price of fish? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Where I come from, you only allow people you like/respect to use your first name....
> 
> ...


Here's what I say: you cannot follow the conversation either. :shock: I think that is a prerequisite of being a Liberal. :-D Solo has nothing to do with the demands of DGreen on Joey.

This is hilarious. What's the price of eggs in China? :-D  :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Please provide proof of your accusation.


It doesn't exist. Thanks for your concern.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> damemary, Your statement is a bald-faced lie and has been reported to Admin.


How petty can you get?? Nevermind, you just proved it. I am sure Admin loves being bothered by babies like you who refuse to put their big girl panties on and deal with the topic at hand.
Waah waah.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Here's what I say: you cannot follow the conversation either. :shock: I think that is a prerequisite of being a Liberal. :-D Solo has nothing to do with the demands of DGreen on Joey.
> 
> This is hilarious. What's the price of eggs in China? :-D  :XD:


It's tea in China KPG. Blah Blah Blah :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Give it up and go home. You are so out of your league.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's easy Solow. Read her posts in this thread. It's honestly hard to find one without the word "liar."


Another one who cannot follow the discussion!

Damemary claimed I personally stalked her. Solo requested proof of the accusation. All has ZERO to do with my posts that name people liars when they lie.

What is it with Libs who cannot follow the conversation or comprehend what they read. You are all so focused on demeaning and defaming others, you cannot think or engage your brains.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> How petty can you get?? Nevermind, you just proved it. I am sure Admin loves being bothered by babies like you who refuse to put their big girl panties on and deal with the topic at hand.
> Waah waah.


She just keeps coming back for more, Patty. She can't get enough of us. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky and Wombat,
We don't have to guess who the rats are who run to Admin anymore.They both exposed themselves in this thread. 
How pathetic.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> She just keeps coming back for more, Patty. She can't get enough of us. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


It's Thursday, Cheeky. She always has some sort of breakdown or drunken rant on Thursdays. Regular as clockwork. 
Dame is not lying and neither am I when I say that she went to my husband's facebook page. That's where the comment about the "Filthy blinds" in the kitchen comment came from. We were giving our rental house a facelift after it was trashed by the last renters. She is a stalker plain and clear. And a liar. She proves that on her own.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Another one who cannot follow the discussion!
> 
> Damemary claimed I personally stalked her. Solo requested proof of the accusation. All has ZERO to do with my posts that contain the word "liar."
> 
> What is it with Libs who cannot follow the conversation or comprehend what they read. You are so focused on demeaning and defaming others, you cannot think.


Give it up. You are the liar and defaming and demeaning others. You can dish out crap but can't take it. You are the only one running around on this thread like a chicken with her head cut off and telling everyone else how stupid they are. Take a look at yourself in the mirror if you can and you will see who is making a fool of herself. You don't even have the good grace to be embarrassed or ashamed of your behavior. Jesus was a liberal KPG and that's the truth. :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Another one who cannot follow the discussion!
> 
> Damemary claimed I personally stalked her. Solo requested proof of the accusation. All has ZERO to do with my posts that name people liars when they lie.
> 
> What is it with Libs who cannot follow the conversation or comprehend what they read. You are all so focused on demeaning and defaming others, you cannot think or engage your brains.


Dame owes solo nothing.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's Thursday, Cheeky. She always has some sort of breakdown or drunken rant on Thursdays. Regular as clockwork.
> Dame is not lying and neither am I when I say that she went to my husband's facebook page. That's where the comment about the "Filthy blinds" in the kitchen comment came from. We were giving our rental house a facelift after it was trashed by the last renters. She is a stalker plain and clear. And a liar. She proves that on her own.


Tipping a few back and then stalking on facebook. Why am I not surprised. She gets her "courage" out of a bottle then?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Tipping a few back and then stalking on facebook. Why am I not surprised. She gets her "courage" out of a bottle then?


Either that or she is off her meds


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> A bit of explanation, Andy.
> 
> Lisa was a member of this site who was kicked off by Administration. I'm not familiar with the actual circumstances, but since she was resoundingly hated by some of those who see he world as soloweygirl does, perhaps that had something to do with it. They will no doubt dispute that, but it doesn't matter in the least. She has been banned.
> 
> ...


Firstly, many thanks for the explanation, that makes good sense.

I feel I have somehow been honoured!!! Stupid I know!!

You are good and I believe also true friend, thanks. One cannot have too many!!!

Andy


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky and Wombat,
> We don't have to guess who the rats are who run to Admin anymore.They both exposed themselves in this thread.
> How pathetic.


I guess she just confirmed it for us.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I guess she just confirmed it for us.


She and Knit Crazy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> Firstly, many thanks for the explanation, that makes good sense.
> 
> I feel I have somehow been honoured!!! Stupid I know!!
> 
> ...


I'm humbled by your statement, since I am aware that the term "friend" is not used lightly in your part of the world. The difference between a friend and an acquaintance is clear.

Thank you, my friend.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky and Wombat,
> We don't have to guess who the rats are who run to Admin anymore.They both exposed themselves in this thread.
> How pathetic.


Every one here can talk to Admin if they wish.....so why be nasty about it, or are you worried you may have said too much?

Sometimes it takes a "Rat" to get you noticed here....(a joke in German/English!)

I also reserve the right to talk to Admin when needed, as we all do....Do you consider me also to be a Rat?

Regards

Andy


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> Every one here can talk to Admin if they wish.....so why be nasty about it, or are you worried you may have said too much?
> 
> Sometimes it takes a "Rat" to get you noticed here....(a joke in German/English!)
> 
> ...


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

When people make a habit of reporting a certain group that they disagree with just to get them banned, then yes, I personally consider them to be rats.
I don't know you, Andy, therefore I would not call you a rat. Your contact with Admni is your business. 
Rat is a term used for tattletales here in the US. Shortened from Rat Fink.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> The right wing is the gift that just keeps on giving. It's funny enough to see the twisted stuff that passes for "truth", but to bring in fairy tales to back it up has me rolling on the carpet. Carry on - it's hilarious.


The origin of the little spat we've seen was my attempt to get Knit Crazy to provide some kind of documentation for her wild claims. Of course, she quickly departed from the scene when challenged with logic and the commonly understood conventions when defending a statement of supposed "fact." Following is an even better look at some of the twisted things that pass for "truth" and go unchallenged among her peers. You're going to love this.

_by Knit Crazy on another public thread:

The Kennedy brothers were also bound by a sense of duty and history. They were terrible husbands, but had an almost a military attitude of duty, honor, and service toward America. The only person Obama services is his gay lovers. He is totally lacking in manners, a sense that he was elected to serve rather than be served, and telling the truth is a foreign concept. My guess is that within a year of his leaving office Americans will have the "full story" of Obama. He is the Manchurian candidate. My guess is we will learn that he never attended classes. He can't be a college graduate because he knows no history. He can't be a constitutional professor because he doesn't know the constitution. He can't be an American because he does not know American values or how many states comprise the US. He has no real friends. He has people who fear him. He has people who use him. He has people that eventually rat him out. No one is a longtime friend. Michelle nearly divorced him, and stays with him for the kids sake although separate vacations work best for her._

In one paragraph, no less. Pretty much covers the alternate universe she lives in.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The origin of the little spat we've seen was my attempt to get Knit Crazy to provide some kind of documentation for her wild claims. Of course, she quickly departed from the scene when challenged with logic and the commonly understood conventions when defending a statement of supposed "fact." Following is an even better look at some of the twisted things that pass for "truth" and go unchallenged among her peers. You're going to love this.
> 
> _by Knit Crazy on another public thread:
> 
> ...


 I wonder what she and the rest will be saying by the time another year passes. Read it carefully

:hunf:


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

I don't know whether to laugh or shudder. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The origin of the little spat we've seen was my attempt to get Knit Crazy to provide some kind of documentation for her wild claims. Of course, she quickly departed from the scene when challenged with logic and the commonly understood conventions when defending a statement of supposed "fact." Following is an even better look at some of the twisted things that pass for "truth" and go unchallenged among her peers. You're going to love this.
> 
> _by Knit Crazy on another public thread:
> 
> ...


She is disgusting. I wouldn't expect any better out of her. I would like to see her back one of those disrespectful statements up. The thing that really gets her goad is that the president takes all of this garbage talk with a grain of salt. 
Of course, she is an expert on ratting people out (self confessed in this thread.)
I would think the universe that she lives in would consist of Confederate flags waving on her porch, a couple of shot guns leaning up against a large jug of moonshine, and an abundance of white sheets and hoods hanging on the clothesline. In the shed, lots of kerosene and crosses ready to burn.
It must really suck to be filled with so much hate and anger for 6 years knowing that there are 2 years left to go. I can't wait to see next years posts. 
And she claims to be Christian? Jesus himself would be embarrassed by her post.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> I don't know whether to laugh or shudder. The lunatics have taken over the asylum.


I did both, Ann. That is one maniacal post by Knit Crazy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> dg you are wanting KC to provide documentation, but you will not. Don't you know how to provide a link? I will believe it when I see it!


Long past expecting KC to provide anything. She's gone - back to her comfortable place where no one challenges her. You will notice, I was commenting ABOUT KC as an example of the kind of things some republicans believe, not TO her.

Besides, what did I say that needs documentation? Do you not believe KC posted those comments?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Jeeper Creepers - I missed a good one. However, as an objective lurker, I must say that both sides need new insults. Would that go over as a workshop?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> When have you ever provided documentation for anything, dg?


Many, many, many times. Where were you?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Many, many, many times. Where were you?


Thanks, Patty!


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Jeeper Creepers - I missed a good one.


I agree, SQM. Whew!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why we have to stick together, IMO. One for all and all for one.



Designer1234 said:


> We don't all agree up here - we have our Liberals and our Conservatives- up until recently, I voted for the person, not the party as I honestly couldn't see too much difference. I didn't care for those who were running for Liberals in nor did I like the people running for Prime Minister. I was happy with what our country stands for and the way we looked at the world. I didn't feel that the individual parties were so different in our basic ideas.
> 
> I voted Conservative in the last two elections, and have not really regretted it. However, the signs are that the far right is becoming more vocal and there seems to be more change in the air.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember Republican women supporting and creating Planned Parenthood which has done so much for women's health and opportunities. Women of all philosophies need to organize for common good. IMHO



DGreen said:


> There was a time when there wasn't "a dime's worth of difference" between the conservatives and republicans in the US because both parties tried to be moderate and centrist.
> 
> Big money has destroyed that.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Reading your posts shows you have learned that lesson very well and have carried it on into your adult life. I am shaking my head and laughing at how silly it is to make such a big deal about nothing. So your first name was used, what's the big deal? You supplied it after all. The silliest by far, is saying that using your first name means the user is stalking you. It's time to shed your pre adolescent mentality and become the adult your body and age say you are. Somehow I know that will never happen.


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :thumbdown:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> I prefer to call you Lisa. You are so much alike it's hard to tell the difference. Maybe there is no difference.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: The usual answer to "There can't be so many of them." Keep dreaming.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd say Andy is a polite, cultured person. Glad to know you.



der_fisherman said:


> Now what has that to do with the price of fish? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
> 
> Where I come from, you only allow people you like/respect to use your first name....
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You were here solo. Others remember and I'm sure do you do too. Funny how comments are edited or removed. Actually, it's not funny at all.

May we learn to live in peace.



soloweygirl said:


> Please provide proof of your accusation.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree completely, of course.



BrattyPatty said:


> How petty can you get?? Nevermind, you just proved it. I am sure Admin loves being bothered by babies like you who refuse to put their big girl panties on and deal with the topic at hand.
> Waah waah.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Same old; same old. Blah....



knitpresentgifts said:


> Another one who cannot follow the discussion!
> 
> Damemary claimed I personally stalked her. Solo requested proof of the accusation. All has ZERO to do with my posts that name people liars when they lie.
> 
> What is it with Libs who cannot follow the conversation or comprehend what they read. You are all so focused on demeaning and defaming others, you cannot think or engage your brains.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I find it amazing that they ever told the truth....even if it is that they tattle when they can.



BrattyPatty said:


> Cheeky and Wombat,
> We don't have to guess who the rats are who run to Admin anymore.They both exposed themselves in this thread.
> How pathetic.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> When have you ever provided documentation for anything, dg?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Great joke.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hi Susan. Missed you. Welcome home.



susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, SQM. Whew!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> The origin of the little spat we've seen was my attempt to get Knit Crazy to provide some kind of documentation for her wild claims. Of course, she quickly departed from the scene when challenged with logic and the commonly understood conventions when defending a statement of supposed "fact." Following is an even better look at some of the twisted things that pass for "truth" and go unchallenged among her peers. You're going to love this.
> 
> _by Knit Crazy on another public thread:
> 
> ...


That does put a slant on ALL of her comments, whether here or on another Forum....

It is further proof that my personal favourite saying, is still true:-

"Those who know nothing, believe a lot!"

The translation from German is mine, I hope that it "comes across" just as it is meant to.....

As a child, the best way to prevent such future "problems" = a high school diploma (at least) and reading a "good" daily newspaper (probably one with few, if any "funnies" is best but I don't know US newspapers much) is one of the few ways that I know about how to combat such twisted mentality and lack of up to date facts...but for some its obviously far too late....

Thanks for sharing.

Andy


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> When people make a habit of reporting a certain group that they disagree with just to get them banned, then yes, I personally consider them to be rats.
> I don't know you, Andy, therefore I would not call you a rat. Your contact with Admni is your business.
> Rat is a term used for tattletales here in the US. Shortened from Rat Fink.


"Rat" in German means "Advice"....Read it again, I did mention that German was involved.

"Gift" in German means "Poison"......

There are quite a few same words but with different meanings!!

"Arm" in German means both "Arm" as in English and also "poor"!!!

Have fun.

Andy


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> Hi Susan. Missed you. Welcome home.


Thanks, Dame.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> That does put a slant on ALL of her comments, whether here or on another Forum....
> 
> It is further proof that my personal favourite saying, is still true:-
> 
> ...


Your saying is quite accurate and one I like myself.

The Internet is an amazing and diverse thing, but the downside is that anyone can publish pretty much anything they want and there are many who seek out only "news" that feeds their personal prejudices and that agrees with what they already believe. The poster of the vile attack on President Obama apparently gets news from sites that engage in publishing lies, rumors and theories as fact. YouTube is particularly helpful for those who seek validation for their warped minds and hatred of Obama.

There are many who believe the virulent hatred of Obama springs from racism. I think there is some truth to that, but in my opinion, the core source of the hate is the extreme, fanatic, conservative mindset of some who view any liberal ideology with white-hot hatred. The fact that a liberal won the presidency has been festering and putrefying like an open wound for six years in the minds of extreme right-wing, Tea Party sympathizers. For an interesting window into the kind of scare-mongering tactics that influence such people, take a peek at this site:

http://www.teaparty.org/afp/

If people actually believe these outrageous and unfounded lies, no wonder they are angry and frightened:

_Heres what they are going to do: 
Grab our guns and leave us defenseless! 
Grant amnesty to tens of millions more illegal aliens to kill your vote! 
Extinguish free-speech, crush it anywhere it exists! 
Intern unlimited numbers of US citizens without cause!
Brand conservatives and the Tea Party as terrorists! 
Teach our children that sexual perversion is normal! 
Strip your wealth by taxing you to death and give it to the world to consume! 
Make all private homes government housing! 
Outlaw certain foods and gasoline-powered vehicles! 
Bypass then reduce and eliminate Congress! 
Make states accountable to the UN! 
Reduce our military by 90%!
Remove our borders! _

Please note, none of those things have happened, even though the list was published years ago. The Tea Party will gladly provide "proof" of these claims, though. Proof that only the most ignorant and bigoted will accept, however.

You have no doubt read the argument about which news outlet broadcasts "the truth" on this thread. The argument is nonsensical and the statistics meaningless. When one seeks out only "news" that agrees with pre-conceived beliefs and sees only that, the result is predictable. Deepening conviction in one's own viewpoint and beliefs, though it is not that difficult to find unbiased sources. Too bad most of them originate outside the US and are not served up by our networks or cable shows.

I also believe that the extremists on the right deliberately select and manufacture "issues" that are fundamentally divisive (see above with the addition of eliminating Christianity and making everyone pay for murdering unborn babies) and highly emotional in order to fan the flames and keep the unthinking and bigoted in a state of fear and outrage, since they make very useful tools to keep public discussion as divided and hateful as possible. The statements by KC illustrate their success.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> To all Democrats: YOUR HELP IS NEEDED


DGreen
helping every which way I can.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> When have you ever provided documentation for anything, dg?


joeysomma
everything she posts is documentation. Sorry you keep missing that.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I agree, SQM. Whew!


susanmos2000
nice to see you, Huck


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> helping every which way I can.


Thank you!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> everything she posts is documentation. Sorry you keep missing that.


Thank you again!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> damemary, Your statement is a bald-faced lie and has been reported to Admin.


knitpresentgifts
this sentence of yours keeps creeping in again and again. You have been lying for a long time. If you need to be reminded, you promised to leave MANY times but here you are causing trouble once more. The washing in the blood of INRI obviously has not cleansed you.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> dg I don't believe it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> You have finally documented the truth!
> 
> But then you call it a lie.


Because it is a lie. They are all lies.

Since you apparently believe the Tea Party hate and idiocy, read the rest of my post to learn what I think of your mindset. I would call your attention specifically to the part that says

in my opinion, the core source of the hate is the extreme, fanatic, conservative mindset of some who view any liberal ideology with white-hot hatred. The fact that a liberal won the presidency has been festering and putrefying like an open wound for six years in the minds of extreme right-wing, Tea Party sympathizers


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Because it is a lie. They are all lies.
> 
> Since you apparently believe the Tea Party hate and idiocy, read the rest of my post to learn what I think of your mindset. I would call your attention specifically to the part that says
> 
> in my opinion, the core source of the hate is the extreme, fanatic, conservative mindset of some who view any liberal ideology with white-hot hatred. The fact that a liberal won the presidency has been festering and putrefying like an open wound for six years in the minds of extreme right-wing, Tea Party sympathizers


DGreen
you are always getting to the core and express it so eloquently. Thank you.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you are always getting to the core and express it so eloquently. Thank you.


If only they would listen and think on their own but I can't see it happening if most are like those who post here.

It is so far from what we want, and what we are that if it wasn't so frightening it would be funny (not). We have to fight them. You must not let them win!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I go with the racism opinion. Barack Obama is more moderate than liberal. IMHO



DGreen said:


> Your saying is quite accurate and one I like myself.
> 
> The Internet is an amazing and diverse thing, but the downside is that anyone can publish pretty much anything they want and there are many who seek out only "news" that feeds their personal prejudices and that agrees with what they already believe. The poster of the vile attack on President Obama apparently gets news from sites that engage in publishing lies, rumors and theories as fact. YouTube is particularly helpful for those who seek validation for their warped minds and hatred of Obama.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey quick reply proved your theory. I couldn't write a better conclusion.



DGreen said:


> Because it is a lie. They are all lies.
> 
> Since you apparently believe the Tea Party hate and idiocy, read the rest of my post to learn what I think of your mindset. I would call your attention specifically to the part that says
> 
> in my opinion, the core source of the hate is the extreme, fanatic, conservative mindset of some who view any liberal ideology with white-hot hatred. The fact that a liberal won the presidency has been festering and putrefying like an open wound for six years in the minds of extreme right-wing, Tea Party sympathizers


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you are always getting to the core and express it so eloquently. Thank you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I love reading it.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> I go with the racism opinion. Barack Obama is more moderate than liberal. IMHO


You and I know that, but the extremists don't see it that way. To them, he is very, very liberal, which speaks to their warped sense of reality and history.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you are always getting to the core and express it so eloquently. Thank you.


Thanks, Huck.

Too bad I can't express more of what I think without getting in trouble with Admin.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> I go with the racism opinion. Barack Obama is more moderate than liberal. IMHO


I am glad that Our Dame has her Fighting Tiger out.

Racism Racism Racism.

I sort of missed the original post by KC but her friends should start reeling her in or at least get her to cork her jug. The quoted version was pure ugliness - one of the worst I ever read here. And she personifies it.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> If only they would listen and think on their own but I can't see it happening if most are like those who post here.
> 
> It is so far from what we want, and what we are that if it wasn't so frightening it would be funny (not). We have to fight them. You must not let them win!


I'm doing my part, Designer, and I know others here are just as committed to ridding our country of the purveyors of hate. It will be an ongoing battle.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That's easy Solow. Read her posts in this thread. It's honestly hard to find one without the word "liar."


I was asking for proof that she was being stalked by KPG. Damemary specifically said she had personal experience being stalked. I did not mention the word liar.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I see KPG can't speak for herself now on this thread and had to bring in reinforcements. Nice try solo but you and your buddies'
> puerile "thanks Andy, I liked the word!" behavior betray you all as a bunch of less than adequate and very needy adults. I guess bad attention for you and your lot is better than no attention at all :thumbdown: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You are really sad and pathetic and I am embarrassed for all of you.


I guess that is why you come out of hibernation just to be bitchy.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Another one who cannot follow the discussion!
> 
> Damemary claimed I personally stalked her. Solo requested proof of the accusation. All has ZERO to do with my posts that name people liars when they lie.
> 
> What is it with Libs who cannot follow the conversation or comprehend what they read. You are all so focused on demeaning and defaming others, you cannot think or engage your brains.


Just another one that thrives on making bitchy comments. It makes them feel important - sort of like 2 year olds when given a little bit of independence.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> I'm doing my part, Designer, and I know others here are just as committed to ridding our country of the purveyors of hate. It will be an ongoing battle.


Just when you mention the purveyors of hate once again they appear in our midst. As much as they claim to dislike us they cannot seem to stay away. I wonder why that is? They certainly have nothing to add to any conversation or factual discussion.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Dame owes solo nothing.


Correct, Damemary owes me nothing. I REQUESTED proof, I did NOT demand proof. I didn't expect an answer, therefore am not in the least bit disappointed. It is so nice to see that Damemary has her own clowns, I mean reinforcements, speaking for her.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> The origin of the little spat we've seen was my attempt to get Knit Crazy to provide some kind of documentation for her wild claims. Of course, she quickly departed from the scene when challenged with logic and the commonly understood conventions when defending a statement of supposed "fact." Following is an even better look at some of the twisted things that pass for "truth" and go unchallenged among her peers. You're going to love this.
> 
> _by Knit Crazy on another public thread:
> 
> ...


Your group often accuses our group of stalking. Yet you are the ones that take posts from "the other" thread and quote it on any and all threads you feel the need. You are the ones that are stalking, reading the other thread until you find what you can use to make your points. If you are not quoting our words, you are running back to your LOLL thread and tattling on what you just read "over there". What a ridiculous and pathetic group of "adults" you are.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> You were here solo. Others remember and I'm sure do you do too. Funny how comments are edited or removed. Actually, it's not funny at all.
> 
> May we learn to live in peace.


As I said I didn't expect an answer. It's obvious there was no truth to your post, you just wanted to sound important for a few minutes.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

And one of them just proved my point. Thank you.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Your group often accuses our group of stalking. Yet you are the ones that take posts from "the other" thread and quote it on any and all threads you feel the need. You are the ones that are stalking, reading the other thread until you find what you can use to make your points. If you are not quoting our words, you are running back to your LOLL thread and tattling on what you just read "over there". What a ridiculous and pathetic group of "adults" you are.


Since you have not condemned KC's comments, it would appear that you endorse them. Most reasonable people would recognize the obvious subject matter of my post but you prefer to go along with the blatant hate and falsehoods spewed by KC and focus on childish BS.

Those were KC's own words, posted for all the world to see and it seems obvious she is confident and proud of herself. In fact, my guess is that she will be pleased to have her views broadcast as widely as possible. There was no stalking involved, since personal information was not sought or divulged and your precious thread is public and not exclusively the property of your friends any more than this one is exclusive the property of those who agree with me. KC reveals herself and her beliefs proudly, as do you. What's the problem?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Since you have not condemned KC's comments, it would appear that you endorse them. Others here can draw their own conclusions about that.
> 
> Tattling? You make me laugh. Those were KC's own words, posted for all the world to see and it seems obvious she is confident and proud of herself. In fact, my guess is that she would be pleased to have her views broadcast as widely as possible.


Again with the lack of comprehension. I wasn't speaking of anything KC posted and whether I agree with her or not is not the subject. I was speaking of your group STALKING us. The conclusion I will draw is that you know you are the ones doing the stalking.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Again with the lack of comprehension. I wasn't speaking of anything KC posted and whether I agree with her or not is not the subject. I was speaking of your group STALKING us. The conclusion I will draw is that you know you are the ones doing the stalking.


Not sure what you consider stalking, but here's one definition you might want to consider.

*Any unwanted contact between two people that directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking.*

I communicated no threat, nor did I do anything that would frighten KC. Get a grip.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Not sure what you consider stalking, but here's one definition you might want to consider.
> 
> *Any unwanted contact between two people that directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking.*
> 
> I communicated no threat, nor did I do anything that would frighten KC. Get a grip.


solo is out on the front line by herself and she seems to be cracking under the pressure. I don't understand why she even bothers to post here.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> solo is out on the front line by herself and she seems to be cracking under the pressure. I don't understand why she even bothers to post here.


Must be her turn in the barrel.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Again with the lack of comprehension. I wasn't speaking of anything KC posted and whether I agree with her or not is not the subject. I was speaking of your group STALKING us. The conclusion I will draw is that you know you are the ones doing the stalking.


In your own words, solo, it's a public site for anyone to read. You once said to me "that it is a public forum and therefore nobody can be stalked."
Changing your tune?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I was asking for proof that she was being stalked by KPG. Damemary specifically said she had personal experience being stalked. I did not mention the word liar.


Why are you making this your business? KPG can speak for herself.
Dame owes you no explanations for her statement.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Correct, Damemary owes me nothing. I REQUESTED proof, I did NOT demand proof. I didn't expect an answer, therefore am not in the least bit disappointed. It is so nice to see that Damemary has her own clowns, I mean reinforcements, speaking for her.


Then why are you still ragging about it?

Oh my. Solo is feeling very bitchy today. But then again it is just another day.
HER attempt at being funny has failed miserably. But then again, miserable people are never funny.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Since you have not condemned KC's comments, it would appear that you endorse them. Most reasonable people would recognize the obvious subject matter of my post but you prefer to go along with the blatant hate and falsehoods spewed by KC and focus on childish BS.
> 
> Those were KC's own words, posted for all the world to see and it seems obvious she is confident and proud of herself. In fact, my guess is that she will be pleased to have her views broadcast as widely as possible. There was no stalking involved, since personal information was not sought or divulged and your precious thread is public and not exclusively the property of your friends any more than this one is exclusive the property of those who agree with me. KC reveals herself and her beliefs proudly, as do you. What's the problem?


Get a load of this. I wonder how she feels her disgusting words of yesterday can be justified by this.

SQM wrote:
If the end is very near, I am letting my roots grow out.

Thanks for supporting Israel but I was dismayed by what appeared to be a very racist post on the other thread. It didn't put your opinion in the best light, to put it mildly. You defeat your own purpose.

[quote Knit Crazy]
Disliking Obama is not based on his race. It is based on the multitude of lies and deceptions he and his administration have perpetrated on the U.S. I can't think of one truthful statement he's given. Can you?[end quote]

Unbelievable!!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Get a load of this. I wonder how she feels her disgusting words of yesterday can be justified by this.
> 
> SQM wrote:
> If the end is very near, I am letting my roots grow out.
> ...


Predictable response from KC.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> A bit of explanation, Andy.
> 
> Lisa was a member of this site who was kicked off by Administration. I'm not familiar with the actual circumstances, but since she was resoundingly hated by some of those who see he world as soloweygirl does, perhaps that had something to do with it. They will no doubt dispute that, but it doesn't matter in the least. She has been banned.
> 
> ...


OMG -:XD: :XD: :XD: I can't breathe .... wait, laughing too hard :XD: :XD: :XD: ... OK, have control again, I think ... :-D

This has to be your funniest post yet DGreen, worthy of bringing me out of ignoring you. How brilliant of you, the resident atheist, omniscient, Liberal spokesperson who uses KP as your personal political platform and be so willing to tell Lisa about Lisa!

Sheer brilliance! You, so all-knowing, yet not familiar with Lisa, but knowledgable to explain to all of KP about Lisa is priceless, simply priceless.

"Every now and then Lisa will set up a new user name?" :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Last official accounting I heard, Lisa was on her 637th user name (and that being months ago)!!!!!

Everyone, but you apparently, knows when a KP poster is Lisa in no more than three posts. Kinda like, "I Can Name That Tune in Three Notes."

You probably should take a class, Green, from one who is familiar with Lisa, (so many are) so, you, too, can recognize her.

We all know you really do know but I'll give you a few hints for future use:

1) look for a user who joined Jul 2014 or later
2) ask one of your Liberal buddies, most who have had at least two unique user names themselves who communicate with Lisa and regularly follow non-Libs around the threads
3) watch for the infamous, Liberal Liar Gang, to converge on a thread to demean and defame others just before or just after Lisa's posts to offer their support.

:-D Thanks for the laughs - better than a $50 seat at the Comedy Club!

Oh, one more thing. No one cares if they don't agree with Lisa or any other Lib nor how many Libs are on KP. Lisa is banned because Admin decided to ban her as is his perogative. Admin is probably delighted when so many report Lisa when they have read one of Lisa's post to alert him. We all are responsible to help Admin so everyone can enjoy the site. Thanks Admin!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OMG -:XD: :XD: :XD: I can't breathe .... wait, laughing too hard :XD: :XD: :XD: ... OK, have control again, I think ... :-D
> 
> This has to be your funniest post yet DGreen, worthy of bringing me out of ignoring you. How brilliant of you, the resident atheist, omniscient, Liberal spokesperson who uses KP as your personal political site to recruit Libs to your party platform and be willing to tell Lisa about Lisa!
> 
> ...


Whatever you say, Cherf. :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM, Everything's so crappy I do think the end is near. Maybe that's why I decided to let my roots grow out. Who is that stranger in my mirror?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Whatever you say, Cherf.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> SQM, I'm trying to let my roots grow out too. Who is that stranger in my mirror?


I love the striped effect that your avatar portrays. ;-)


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

DGreen said:


> to Soloweygirl:Since you have not condemned KC's comments, it would appear that you endorse them.


And again I have to break my promise and respond! I have 13,210 posts to your 3,171. That means *you agree with me 76% of the time* and endorse my words as stated by your logic above because you have not condemned the majority of my comments.:-D It appears you endorse them!

I'm so flattered, Green!
You even said just today:


DGreen said:


> Silence is consent.


I'll sleep well knowing you're so agreeable to my comments and it's merely a fake persona you play on KP. Have a terrific weekend!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I love the striped effect that your avatar portrays. ;-)


And the growl that goes with it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> And the growl that goes with it?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen, you are agreeable and constant in your beliefs. It's a pleasure remembering meeting for lunch.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Why are you making this your business? KPG can speak for herself.
> Dame owes you no explanations for her statement.


Why are you making Solo's and Dame's business yours? 
Solo owes you no explanations for her statement.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> DGreen, you are agreeable and constant in your beliefs. It's a pleasure remembering meeting for lunch.


Someone is "green" with envy about D. 
:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Someone is "green" with envy about D.
> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> to damemary:As I said I didn't expect an answer. It's obvious there was no truth to your post, you just wanted to sound important for a few minutes.


Yep! She failed on all accounts.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you making Solo's and Dame's business yours?
> Solo owes you no explanations for her statement.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> 
> The bitchy is all over the righties today.


Are the fire ants roaming right?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Are the fire ants roaming right?


It must be awful to live in her world. Oops, I better behave or she will rat on me too!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> DGreen, you are agreeable and constant in your beliefs. It's a pleasure remembering meeting for lunch.


The pleasure was mine, Dame.

Thanks for the support.

KPG, as usual, can't resist any opportunity to display her need for attention. As most adults know, tearing others down and ridiculing them is ALWAYS born of insecurity and/or the craving for self-aggrandizement. We know the personality types that are cheering her on and giving high-fives for this childish behavior. As far as I'm concerned, she can howl all she wants at the moon; rewarding her by engaging with such nonsense just feeds her craving. I'm returning her to the status of "one who shall remain nameless."


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Does anyone member this little guy from the 60's? He is making a big come back.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Does anyonee member this little guy from the 60's?


No ,but it's not hard to guess what he represents.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you making Solo's and Dame's business yours?
> Solo owes you no explanations for her statement.


knitpresentgifts
you are the one who can never zip her flaps. You are consistently trying to put yourself into any conversation. Without such conversation most likely you have none whatsoever. Who would want to interact with someone like you? Well, our Nest has no room for you, spread your wings and take a flight into oblivion.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Either that or she is off her meds


Bratty Patty
I put my bet on a combination of both.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> SQM, Everything's so crappy I do think the end is near. Maybe that's why I decided to let my roots grow out. Who is that stranger in my mirror?


Come on Tiger. Don't start with that evangelical stuff. Actually I quit coloring my hair last year and am amazed that it is turning gray. I like watching the process.

Fun to see KGB and Girl here. Always adds a certain je ne se quoi to the conversation.

I did not notice any of them mentioning KC's latest mishegoss. Even if there is something organically wrong with her, do we excuse what she wrote?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Oh, dear, please do try to keep up with the discussion Cheeks. Green, who gave her name in her first post, get this, demanded Joeysomma call her something other than what she named herself! Green reported Joey for using the name she introduced herself, and then later admitted how silly she is. Gotta love anyone who recognizes self stupidity.
> 
> Now, to you; I suggest you go back to your "blah, blah, blah" verbiage as it makes you look less pathetic and foolish.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
try to occupy yourself by finding decent wares to peddle on the Internet rather than keeping track of everyone's postings and keep stalking them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't excuse poor behavior. I try my best to ignore it though because I feel it's more obvious standing alone, flapping in the breeze.



SQM said:


> Come on Tiger. Don't start with that evangelical stuff. Actually I quit coloring my hair last year and am amazed that it is turning gray. I like watching the process.
> 
> Fun to see KGB and Girl here. Always adds a certain je ne se quoi to the conversation.
> 
> I did not notice any of them mentioning KC's latest mishegoss. Even if there is something organically wrong with her, do we excuse what she wrote?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> Come on Tiger. Don't start with that evangelical stuff. Actually I quit coloring my hair last year and am amazed that it is turning gray. I like watching the process.
> 
> Fun to see KGB and Girl here. Always adds a certain je ne se quoi to the conversation.
> 
> I did not notice any of them mentioning KC's latest mishegoss. Even if there is something organically wrong with her, do we excuse what she wrote?


I have long suspected an organic problem. Seriously. There appears to be a pathological cognitive disconnect. I wonder if it is contagious and transmitted by reading too much right wing propaganda?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> I have long suspected an organic problem. Seriously. There appears to be a pathological cognitive disconnect. I wonder if it is contagious and transmitted by reading too much right wing propaganda?


Good answer. Might not answer everything, but it's better than most.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> There are also many who simply enjoy shooting guns. They believe their "right" to have fun is more compelling than any public safety concern. They don't care if children or innocent people get killed daily so long as they can play with their AR-15's. Sick.


DGreen
ever noticed that most of those who have a need for Guns are intellectually challenged? Gohmert made my case again today. He may have graduated from some Institutions of higher learning but he continuously proves the point I often make, that unfortunately anyone can graduate particularly if they can pay the Tuition. We have a dire need for revamping our educational system. Webster's is mightier than a Smith & Wesson.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> you are the one who can never zip her flaps. You are consistently trying to put yourself into any conversation. Without such conversation most likely you have none whatsoever. Who would want to interact with someone like you? Well, our Nest has no room for you, spread your wings and take a flight into oblivion.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> ever noticed that most of those who have a need for Guns are intellectually challenged? Gohmert made my case again today. He may have graduated from some Institutions of higher learning but he continuously proves the point I often make, that unfortunately anyone can graduate particularly if they can pay the Tuition. We have a dire need for revamping our educational system. Webster's is mightier than a Smith & Wesson.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> ever noticed that most of those who have a need for Guns are intellectually challenged? Gohmert made my case again today. He may have graduated from some Institutions of higher learning but he continuously proves the point I often make, that unfortunately anyone can graduate particularly if they can pay the Tuition. We have a dire need for revamping our educational system. Webster's is mightier than a Smith & Wesson.


If only that were true...


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Isn't it strange that the right-wing has just discovered laughter? The problem is, they just don't do it very well. There's not much sophistication, is there?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Isn't it strange that the right-wing has just discovered laughter? The problem is, they just don't do it very well. There's not much sophistication, is there?


Very astute observation.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Isn't it strange that the right-wing has just discovered laughter? The problem is, they just don't do it very well. There's not much sophistication, is there?


aw9358
it is that awkward laugh, didn't you hear? It always shows up when one is lost for intelligent rebuttal. And in these cases intelligence isn't even expected, just common responses with facts would be sufficient but then their facts are usually fiction. Poor Suckers being taken for a ride on a Merry Go Round by those who have ill will in store and the never ending rotations have injured what grey matter is present and can be styled for unsavory purposes. What a wonderful spot the rest of us are in to have been liberated.
Liberal, what a glories word and heavenly feeling.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> it is that awkward laugh, didn't you hear? It always shows up when one is lost for intelligent rebuttal. And in these cases intelligence isn't even expected, just common responses with facts would be sufficient but then their facts are usually fiction. Poor Suckers being taken for a ride on a Merry Go Round by those who have ill will in store and the never ending rotations have injured what grey matter is present and can be styled for unsavory purposes. What a wonderful spot the rest of us are in to have been liberated.
> Liberal, what a glories word and heavenly feeling.


Good post and I agree.

It occurred to me that for some, attempts at humor are delivered with a sledge hammer or a knife. The best humor is when we laugh at ourselves - a concept lost on a few people we know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, Huck.
> 
> Too bad I can't express more of what I think without getting in trouble with Admin.


DGreen
why is it that here one side seems to be favored by Admin. over the other. I thought that particularly in a commercial setting where numbers count so much, all numbers have the same value. What am I missing?


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huck, I'm with you. The trouble for me is that, after reading some of the "contributions" on this thread, the only thing I could do was laugh. If I took them seriously I'd be in despair. What saves me is their utter incompetence, at not only any kind of coherence or integrity, but also their attempts at humour. They just don't have the intelligence for subtlety or irony. And dictators hate to be ridiculed.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> why is it that here one side seems to be favored by Admin. over the other. I thought that particularly in a commercial setting where numbers count so much, all numbers have the same value. What am I missing?


We are missing visibility into what Admin is told and how often.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Good post and I agree.
> 
> It occurred to me that for some, attempts at humor are delivered with a sledge hammer or a knife. The best humor is when we laugh at ourselves - a concept lost on a few people we know.


DGreen
my favorite Comedian did it best, Red Skelton. I am lucky to be partnered with a truly humorous Man. I have no like for silly stuff, it really must be funny to tickle my fancy.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> my favorite Comedian did it best, Red Skelton. I am lucky to be partnered with a truly humorous Man. I have no like for silly stuff, it really must be funny to tickle my fancy.


Gosh, he was a gentle man with such gentle humor. Hadn't thought of him in years but I can still hear the way he closed the show with "God bless." He really meant it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Isn't it strange that the right-wing has just discovered laughter? The problem is, they just don't do it very well. There's not much sophistication, is there?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: It feels like trying to talk sense to a 10 year old bully.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> aw9358
> it is that awkward laugh, didn't you hear? It always shows up when one is lost for intelligent rebuttal. And in these cases intelligence isn't even expected, just common responses with facts would be sufficient but then their facts are usually fiction. Poor Suckers being taken for a ride on a Merry Go Round by those who have ill will in store and the never ending rotations have injured what grey matter is present and can be styled for unsavory purposes. What a wonderful spot the rest of us are in to have been liberated.
> Liberal, what a glories word and heavenly feeling.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put Huck.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel like I'm missing part of the puzzle. The deck is stacked. IMO



Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> why is it that here one side seems to be favored by Admin. over the other. I thought that particularly in a commercial setting where numbers count so much, all numbers have the same value. What am I missing?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very astute.

Is the ballerina in your avatar a member of the family? Beautiful.



aw9358 said:


> Huck, I'm with you. The trouble for me is that, after reading some of the "contributions" on this thread, the only thing I could do was laugh. If I took them seriously I'd be in despair. What saves me is their utter incompetence, at not only any kind of coherence or integrity, but also their attempts at humour. They just don't have the intelligence for subtlety or irony. And dictators hate to be ridiculed.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

How do we know one side is being favored over another? This is a business and I think we are great for their business, says the Ever Humble Sloth.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put Huck.


We really are fortunate to be open minded and to be able to think for ourselves. We see all the colors of the spectrum not the dreary black and white that the right embraces. It's as if so much emotion has been sucked out of them and they only have negative emotions left. I guess if there isn't anything positive inside you can't project out to the world that which isn't in you. I would feel sorry for them if they showed the least little shred of compassion or humor but there is none there. Hating takes a lot out of them.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> How do we know one side is being favored over another? This is a business and I think we are great for their business, says the Ever Humble Sloth.


At least we have more interesting things to talk about than cream cheese recipes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for sharing.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> We really are fortunate to be open minded and to be able to think for ourselves. We see all the colors of the spectrum not the dreary black and white that the right embraces. It's as if so much emotion has been sucked out of them and they only have negative emotions left. I guess if there isn't anything positive inside you can't project out to the world that which isn't in you. I would feel sorry for them if they showed the least little shred of compassion or humor but there is none there. Hating takes a lot out of them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I appear to be enough for the moment. Not a happy feeling. 
Glad if it avoids trouble for all.



BrattyPatty said:


> It must be awful to live in her world. Oops, I better behave or she will rat on me too!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Not sure what you consider stalking, but here's one definition you might want to consider.
> 
> *Any unwanted contact between two people that directly or indirectly communicates a threat or places the victim in fear can be considered stalking.*
> 
> I communicated no threat, nor did I do anything that would frighten KC. Get a grip.


That definition sure does cover KPG as long as it say TRIES to place the victim in fear.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> We are missing visibility into what Admin is told and how often.


Remember they are the ones who do 90% of the complaining and I doubt Admin has time or inclination to read all the posts, so if they get so many complaints unless it is really dreadful, they just read lots of complaints and contact whoever it is that our "friend" report the most often.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> That definition sure does cover KPG as long as it say TRIES to place the victim in fear.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> try to occupy yourself by finding decent wares to peddle on the Internet rather than keeping track of everyone's postings and keep stalking them.


KGP needs to come up with something new to post about - all her posts are the same. She copies parts of posts and must have file she can refer to for all our posts. Then picks part of them. It doesn't happen to them as we are not keeping track like she does. We have more interesting things to do than look for something we can repeat ad nauseum and twist and repeat. same old same old. I wonder if she really knows what a fool she appears to us.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I'll sleep well knowing you're so agreeable to my comments and it's merely a fake persona you play on KP. Have a terrific weekend!


I do hope you have a good sleep. Thank heavens you are on the right, you are so arrogant we would rather have you there than here. You are so full of it it is funny. I am glad you have found a wonderful place to reach out from, with people who adore you,- same old same old, in everyone of your posts. either copying , or implying or insulting - all your posts are the same. We know them without having to look at your avatar as there is nothing original in any of of them. Usually I can tell they are yours half way through the first sentence. No need to read the rest as they are all the same. Never anything new. Boring.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Huck, I'm with you. The trouble for me is that, after reading some of the "contributions" on this thread, the only thing I could do was laugh. If I took them seriously I'd be in despair. What saves me is their utter incompetence, at not only any kind of coherence or integrity, but also their attempts at humour. They just don't have the intelligence for subtlety or irony. And dictators hate to be ridiculed.


Hi aw9458 nice to hear from you. It doesn't seem as funny reading the same thing over and over but looking at it from a new perspective it actually is hilarious. Humor is hard for them, especially when very few have a sense of humor. Everything you say is spot on.

Open forum, everyone can read them. fact of life.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> We are missing visibility into what Admin is told and how often.


I have learned that many many of the threats of reporting are just threats. I was told I was being reported over and over and checked - was told not to worry - if they had a problem with me they would let me know. Did that about a year ago when one of the people from another thread which is well known to us,'who has not be around much until recently due to illness and travel, told me all over the forum every where I went that she was reporting me. We called a sort of truce.

She came back with a bang this week though. I have never received a whisper from them and hope I don't. However some feel 
like kings if they can scare people. If they take offense so be it but I don't swear, or read the starting page of an avatar, and if I repeat it has to be really dreadful to repeat it. So I think most of us here are okay. Her post this last week cancelled my agreement as far as I am concerned- it was way way over the top and I hope it was noted by many people on the forum. Shows so much of what they all believe. Not the one that was copied. As far as I know it wasn't reported.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> We are missing visibility into what Admin is told and how often.


You got that right, d!


----------



## west coast kitty (May 26, 2012)

damemary wrote:
I have personally been a target of stalking by the very person calling 'Liar' the loudest. I'm confident now that everyone knows how to protect themselves. PM me if you need to talk.



soloweygirl said:


> Please provide proof of your accusation.


Solo, we know that it is much easier to prove the opposite, that Dame is part of a group of malicious hypocrites who have done their best to bully and stalk KPG since she joined KP not quite 2 years ago. Within a couple of days of joining KP, she was accused of being someone else and was rudely insulted with crude and vulgar comments.

Since that time, a growing number of LOLL regulars have posted names, pictures, family and business info, IP addresses of people that they claim are KPG. Making up information or using other people's personal information in an attempt to intimidate and vilify KPG would be considered stalking and bullying by most rational people. When KPG defends herself, their attacks start again; in fact she has been attacked even when she doesn't post.

The LOLL regulars participating in this behaviour are the best examples of sanctimonious hypocrites that I've come across.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I do hope you have a good sleep. Thank heavens you are on the right, you are so arrogant we would rather have you there than here. You are so full of it it is funny. I am glad you have found a wonderful place to reach out from, with people who adore you,- same old same old, in everyone of your posts. either copying , or implying or insulting - all your posts are the same. We know them without having to look at your avatar as there is nothing original in any of of them. Usually I can tell they are yours half way through the first sentence. No need to read the rest as they are all the same. Never anything new. Boring.


Designer1234
you are right on the button.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> How do we know one side is being favored over another? This is a business and I think we are great for their business, says the Ever Humble Sloth.


SQM
experience has made it clear as a Waterford Bell.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I feel like I'm missing part of the puzzle. The deck is stacked. IMO


damemary
it is and it is not just an opinion, it has been revealed over and over again.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> dg: Most of things you state have not happened,* Have happened*. I have given examples of almost all. If you think that anything I have stated is wrong. Please explain my error , with examples. I should not have to give a website as the one you have provided is good.
> 
> I saw your post this morning just before I left for work, no time for a complete answer.


Your response and claims are mostly made up of your interpretation of facts, your interpretation of the meaning of those facts, and stretching those interpretations to whatever distorted length necessary to fit your beliefs. Coming from one whose normal insistence on precision and accuracy is well known, I can only conclude you are a Tea Party devotee since your beliefs are so closely aligned with their official agenda and claims. That is your right, and you have clearly demonstrated on countless occasions where you stand.

I've gone to considerable trouble to respond. This is the last time I will do so on this topic, since it is a waste of time to engage you. I prepared this response only because the tea party claims are so patently outrageous and your defense of them so ridiculous, I felt compelled to answer.

Heres what they are going to do:



> GRAB OUR GUNS AND LEAVE US DEFENSELESS!
> 
> Since the regulation of the sale of guns has had little success, he wants to ban the sale of certain ammo. If there is no ammo the guns will be worthless


READ THE CLAIM. The claim is that Obama intends to GRAB OUR GUNS. You have provided no proof that this has happened. There has been no legislation restricting gun rights. Banning the sale of ONE specific type of ammunition is not equivalent to grabbing your guns. I checked an arms dealer to get an idea of how many kinds of ammunition exist and are for sale and found this:

Centerfire cartridges separate items: 1649 products
Rimfire separate items: 116 products
Shotgun shells: 1084 products
Ammo blanks: 71 products
Of course, firearms are readily available as well. 
Handguns for sale by caliber: 50
Rifles for sale by caliber: 3302
Shotguns by caliber: 1249
Tactical rifles: 482
Tactical shotguns: 56

See more at http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/advanced_cat_search.php?cated=4
Conclusion: Firearms and ammunition are readily available to anyone who wishes to purchase them. There has been no proposed action or legislation under Obama that is intended to confiscate guns from US citizens. Evidently you do not care about the safety of law enforcement personnel since the proposed ban is intended to outlaw bullets that can pierce their body armor.



> GRANT AMNESTY TO TENS OF MILLIONS MORE ILLEGAL ALIENS TO KILL YOUR VOTE!
> 2014 is the year of the illegal, millions crossed the border and ICE was told to let them in. Then the delay of deportation of the youth brought here by parents. Then the release of criminals instead of deportation. (some were convicted of homicide). Lying to the Federal judge in Texas, saying he had not started the delay of 3 years, before Feb 28, while 100's had been processed


You are evidently referring to the hysteria that erupted over the Sequester, when funding for Homeland Security was reduced, making it impossible for ICE to pay for housing illegals. There are page after page of articles, but most of them date back to 2010 or before. I refuse to use FOX news or The Blaze or other right-wing sources, so finding an unbiased source to verify your statement that in 2014 "millions crossed the border and ICE was allowed to let them in" was impossible. I did find a report by ICE on how many people were deported in 2014: 315,943, 85% of whom had been previously convicted of a crime. This demonstrates that Homeland Security is focusing their limited resources on deporting criminals. Interestingly, of the 137,983 illegals deported who had no criminal record, 89 percent were apprehended while trying to enter the US, so ICE is hardly being told to let them in. The priorities published by Homeland Security says:

DHS will implement a new department-wide enforcement and removal policy that places top priority on national security threats, convicted felons, gang members, and illegal entrants apprehended at the border; the second-tier priority on those convicted of significant or multiple misdemeanors and those who are not apprehended at the border, but who entered or reentered this country unlawfully after January 1, 2014; and the third priority on those who are non-criminals but who have failed to abide by a final order of removal issued on or after January 1, 2014.

You may disagree (and I expect you do) but I have no problem with these priorities, since resources are limited and priorities must be set. Additionally, the "some were convicted of homicide" reference is pretty meaningless. "Some" is not defined, there are no specifics, and single instances do not demonstrate policy, especially in relation to numbers in the hundreds of thousands.
The part about 10s of millions? It says Obama plans to grant amnesty, which he has not. Conservatives have erroneously and deliberately BRANDED Obama's actions as amnesty, but if you want to know what actual amnesty is, read history on R. Regan.



> EXTINGUISH FREE-SPEECH, CRUSH IT ANYWHERE IT EXISTS!
> 
> thought police and hate speech instead of Freedom of Speech.


Exactly what does that statement mean? We have "thought" police? I haven't seen one. Your statement isn't within the same universe as actual proof that free speech has been crushed. It isn't even a complete sentence.

Conclusion: No restrictions on free speech have been enacted under Obama.



> INTERN UNLIMITED NUMBERS OF US CITIZENS WITHOUT CAUSE!
> 
> From Obama's lips:
> 
> ...


----------



## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

It wasn't progressive, it was stupid.



GWPlver said:


> I wouldn't care if President Obama were Muslim, atheist, Christian, whatever. But I would think it progressive of the U.S. to have a Muslim president.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> It wasn't progressive, it was stupid.


Obama is NOT a muslim. I don't understand why people keep making that claim. It is stupid.

If you don't like Obama, that is your right, but why make up lies?


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Bravo, Green! I read your rebuttal to Joey and her TP BS and think it's fantastic. Few people have the patience and the stomach to shovel all the elephant doo-doo out of the stables, and they bank on this.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you DGreen for the accurate explanation. You are most patient.



DGreen said:


> READ THE CLAIM. You have drawn a conclusion based on your erroneous statement implying that ICE is not allowed to arrest ANY border crossers, which is not true (see above). Conclusions are not facts and you have not provided any evidence whatever that Obama is giving up a single inch of US soil.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Obama is NOT a muslim. I don't understand why people keep making that claim. It is stupid.
> 
> If you don't like Obama, that is your right, but why make up lies?


Because they don't have anything else?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen is an inspiration and a breath of fresh air. Bravo indeed.



susanmos2000 said:


> Bravo, Green! I read your rebuttal to Joey and her TP BS and think it's fantastic. Few people have the patience and the stomach to shovel all the elephant doo-doo out of the stables, and they bank on this.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

damemary said:


> Because they don't have anything else?


Seems to me it doesn't matter if he WAS a muslim. Political office is not in any way related to religion - government should HAVE NO religion. Elected officials should never let their religious beliefs affect their decisions.

Those who claim he is muslim are

1. Making the claim that Obama lied about his religion in order to get elected
2. Implying that being of the muslim faith is a disqualifier for being president
3. Implying that there has been an ongoing elaborate scheme to hide the "truth" from the American public
4. Using the false belief that Obama is muslim and a liar as an excuse to hate him instead of putting forth actual reasons.

Just like the birthers, people who believe this are quite incorrigible and will not give up the belief in the lie. However, this must be disputed and I will dispute it. There is no credible proof to support this lie. Innuendo, assumption, mis-interpretation of remarks, family heritage; none of these constitute anything that resembles proof except to those who know the word but who do not have an accurate understanding of the concept.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> DGreen is an inspiration and a breath of fresh air. Bravo indeed.


I agree, Dame. Green knows what she is talking about and expresses it so well. She has gone to the trouble of disproving the statements, and supplies legitimate reasons for what she claims.
Good job!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Applause! Applause! So clear and concise.



DGreen said:


> Seems to me it doesn't matter if he WAS a muslim. Political office is not in any way related to religion - government should HAVE NO religion. Elected officials should never let their religious beliefs affect their decisions.
> 
> Those who claim he is muslim are
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Bravo, Green! I read your rebuttal to Joey and her TP BS and think it's fantastic. Few people have the patience and the stomach to shovel all the elephant doo-doo out of the stables, and they bank on this.


Thanks so much. It was definitely hard on my stomach.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

west coast kitty said:


> damemary wrote:
> I have personally been a target of stalking by the very person calling 'Liar' the loudest. I'm confident now that everyone knows how to protect themselves. PM me if you need to talk.
> 
> Solo, we know that it is much easier to prove the opposite, that Dame is part of a group of malicious hypocrites who have done their best to bully and stalk KPG since she joined KP not quite 2 years ago. Within a couple of days of joining KP, she was accused of being someone else and was rudely insulted with crude and vulgar comments.
> ...


-------------------------
--------------------------

I wrote an answer to this but decided I would change it. will answer later. It was way too long but expressed my opinion. however it showed my anger at this post. Hopefully I will decide to post a calmer answer shortly. If not, so be it.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Thanks so much. It was definitely hard on my stomach.


Wow!! Just came back to catch up on what I missed !
Your response and research was fantastic. Bravo is right!
I think I'll print it out for future reference ! 😉


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Dgreen, that was an excellent rebuttal of those bizarre claims. However, as usual when someone demolishes one of their stupidities, I doubt we'll hear a peep out of any of them. I call it the "more tea, Vicar?" defence.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Get a load of this. I wonder how she feels her disgusting words of yesterday can be justified by this.
> 
> SQM wrote:
> If the end is very near, I am letting my roots grow out.
> ...


Since you quoted KC's post and carried it here, why not attempt to answer the question?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yep! She failed on all accounts.


Surprised?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Come on Tiger. Don't start with that evangelical stuff. Actually I quit coloring my hair last year and am amazed that it is turning gray. I like watching the process.
> 
> Fun to see KGB and Girl here. Always adds a certain je ne se quoi to the conversation.
> 
> I did not notice any of them mentioning KC's latest mishegoss. Even if there is something organically wrong with her, do we excuse what she wrote?


Why is it so important for you that we disagree with KC's post. This seems to be the big issue here, not what KC posted. Just because you get your jollies out of attacking your token Republican "friend", doesn't mean we find that behavior appealing. One enormous difference between our group and yours is that we allow our members to have their own opinions and do not feel the need to brow beat them for having those opinions.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> Your group often accuses our group of stalking. Yet you are the ones that take posts from "the other" thread and quote it on any and all threads you feel the need. You are the ones that are stalking, reading the other thread until you find what you can use to make your points. If you are not quoting our words, you are running back to your LOLL thread and tattling on what you just read "over there". What a ridiculous and pathetic group of "adults" you are.


That is NOT stalking!!!

That is "Quoting", a valid way of showing people what is being said, usually from the opposite "party".........

From a US Dictionary:-

*stalk1 (stɔk Pronunciation for )
Definitions
intransitive verb

to walk in a stiff, haughty, or grim manner
to advance or spread grimly ⇒ "plague stalks across the land"
to pursue or approach game, an enemy, etc. stealthily, as from cover
(obsolete) to walk or move along stealthily or furtively

transitive verb

to pursue or approach (game, prey, etc.) stealthily
to stalk through ⇒ "terror stalked the streets"
to follow or pursue (another person) persistently in a harassing and, typically, obsessive way

noun

a slow, stiff, haughty, or grim stride
the act of stalking game, an enemy, etc.*

i hope this makes it clear for everyone....that if you make bad, rude or unfair statements, these are easily "thrown back" so to say by quoting them......

The method is used by many in arguments or discussions....

Andy


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why is it so important for you that we disagree with KC's post. This seems to be the big issue here, not what KC posted. Just because you get your jollies out of attacking your token Republican "friend", doesn't mean we find that behavior appealing. One enormous difference between our group and yours is that we allow our members to have their own opinions and do not feel the need to brow beat them for having those opinions.


Dahlink - what are you babbling about? I would jump on anyone on any side who posted such disgraceful racist comments. Of course everyone is entitled to her opinion including me. As a Jew, my tolerance for hateful, disturbing comments is at a new low. So I commented on Crazy's comment. Nu? Will that change her? No. But I am the Crusader Rabbit against bigotry of all kinds.

Who is my token rep. friend? I have many friends and relatives who are reps. Maybe you????????


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

It's time to lighten up folks!Enough of this arguing. Time for some humor!


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> We are missing visibility into what Admin is told and how often.


That implies to me that the "ignorant right wing Crazies here, accusing people of stalking them and/or calling everyone liars", are probably talking to Admin on a minute by minute basis....

The rest of us probably hardly make use of the possibility....

What say you to that?

Andy


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> It's time to lighten up folks!Enough of this arguing. Time for some humor!


I missed the punch line.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> experience has made it clear as a Waterford Bell.


I honestly believe after having dealt with admin for nearly 3 years on a semi weekly basis , that the squeaky wheel gets the attention. I have found them to be very fair but once they have answered that is it. Which to me is fair. I believe that the other side reports at least 4 or 5 times as many posts as we do. Personally unless it is really over the top I don't bother them as it doesn't matter and will be repeated again and again. So those are the ones admin gets tired of and so they are answered with words something like, you have had reports against you, just watch what you post. Not necessarily a threat although often taken as one.

If they report us 50% of the time that they say they will - it would be twice at least as often as we report them. I don't see reporting unless it is extremely cruel, or an obvious untrue insult . Better to call them on it publicly which has been done this past week on one over the top and extremely untrue post. Unless you get a specific pm from them saying you will be banned if you continue, I would take it as a statement that they have received complaints. However complaints are common from the other thread . Admin must be sick of them. They certainly don't answer posts that we don't send. I would imagine that rarely if ever have we reported KPG , even though we have no respect for her, She. however reports us or threatens to report us constantly, and I would think at least half of those threats are followed through.

My opinion only. I really don't agree that admin is onone side or plays favorites in most cases. I believe the number of complaints is one sided. So they deal with what they receive. I don't intend to join our "friends" by playing games - reporting nasty posts unless they are over the top. - it is just a petty way of being a poor sport. If you don't report anything but something which really is against the rules or implied rules I believe they will accept it and deal with it.

I do wish the guidelines were clearer about what is acceptable and what isn't.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> That implies to me that the "ignorant right wing Crazies here, accusing people of stalking them and/or calling everyone liars", are probably talking to Admin on a minute by minute basis....
> 
> The rest of us probably hardly make use of the possibility....
> 
> ...


I just wrote a post saying the same thing Andy. I agree l00%


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> Remember they are the ones who do 90% of the complaining and I doubt Admin has time or inclination to read all the posts, so if they get so many complaints unless it is really dreadful, they just read lots of complaints and contact whoever it is that our "friend" report the most often.


Thats my take too....

Andy


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> Wow!! Just came back to catch up on what I missed !
> Your response and research was fantastic. Bravo is right!
> I think I'll print it out for future reference ! 😉


Thanks, Beth, and others who liked my post. I appreciate the support. By tomorrow, I expect Joey will have read my response and will be sputtering with rage, but I do notice none of the "others" have taken issue with my words.

While I find the TP list beyond outrageous, I know thinking people can see it for what it is; inflammatory speech and wild speculation meaning nothing.

What BOTHERS me is the *flimsy excuse for proof *that is offered by those on the right even when the supposed proof doesn't pertain to the case in point. This indicates of a failure of critical thinking and logic at its worst.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> It's time to lighten up folks!Enough of this arguing. Time for some humor!


Not funny.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> That implies to me that the "ignorant right wing Crazies here, accusing people of stalking them and/or calling everyone liars", are probably talking to Admin on a minute by minute basis....
> 
> The rest of us probably hardly make use of the possibility....
> 
> ...


As for me, I've been accused of reporting members to Admin but have never done so.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Not funny.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> As for me, I've been accused of reporting members to Admin but have never done so.


I have reported someone three at the most in the years I have been on this thread.One recently which had nothing to do with me. HOWEVER, I have contacted admin twice over the years and asked them if those who tell me all the time that they are reporting me, have done so and I would appreciate it if they let me know if they felt I was overstepping (as I was concerned because of the workshops). Each time they have said if they had a problem they would let me know 'so don't worry about it'. They didn't answer my question which made me wonder if they took those 'reports' with a grain of salt and didn't pay attention. Whether that is the case doesn't really matter. Either those who threaten all the time are not actually reporting, or they report so often that no attention is paid to them.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> KGP needs to come up with something new to post about - all her posts are the same. She copies parts of posts and must have file she can refer to for all our posts. Then picks part of them. It doesn't happen to them as we are not keeping track like she does. We have more interesting things to do than look for something we can repeat ad nauseum and twist and repeat. same old same old. I wonder if she really knows what a fool she appears to us.


She has no idea of what she has written when or how often or the poor impression she leaves behind.

I often wonder how such people who cannot manage their "online" lives cleanly, manage their "real" lives.....my guess is probably pretty poorly.....

Not that anyone could persuade me to change my mind on that by the way, as some of them may try and do...

My (pure) guess is they are single, but some have been married more than twice and probably have set 3 or more children in the world, some of which have no contact with her, no high school diploma, no advanced education and nature has not been kind with their looks, anymore.....

Of course no possible way for anyone to prove it either way....

Andy


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> She has no idea of what she has written when or how often or the poor impression she leaves behind.
> 
> I often wonder how such people who cannot manage their "online" lives cleanly, manage their "real" lives.....my guess is probably pretty poorly.....
> 
> ...


I never worry about what happens in their personal lives Andy, that is somewhere where you can get into trouble. I try to stick to what is written here or on other threads on the forum.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

freesia792 said:


> It's time to lighten up folks!Enough of this arguing. Time for some humor!


I don't find that funny either.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> As for me, I've been accused of reporting members to Admin but have never done so.


I doubt some of them can imagine anyone not using the report - I do think it is a good thing as it can be used for other things besides reporting someone -- you can ask to have a post removed, (which I have done once in awhile when upon reading it I feel I over reacted. or you can ask for your post be changed to a different section, or you can ask them a question. It is used for many things besides reporting people for what they say.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

I did not include our brilliant, accurate but lengthy reply as most of the "intelligentsia" here will have read it once already. The others don't count!!!

Well written, obviously accurate, many thanks.

I think that she is so enamoured of the tea party, she was probably quoting word for word and believing it.....

That is her problem.....

regards

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

freesia792 said:


> It wasn't progressive, it was stupid.


You obviously think he is Muslim!!!

Or did I get that wrong?

Andy


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Ah freesia, conservative humour. A perfect dictionary definition of oxymoron.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Obama is NOT a muslim. I don't understand why people keep making that claim. It is stupid.
> 
> If you don't like Obama, that is your right, but why make up lies?


You should have written "believe lies" is what the problem is!!

Andy


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

freesia792 said:


> It's time to lighten up folks!Enough of this arguing. Time for some humor!


you show your spots.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

DGreen, thank you, thank you, thank you for expending the energy and time to rebut Joey and her Tea Party "truths"---and doing it in clear, concise language that can be easily understood at least by most, if not all KPers. I am most grateful that you wrote this.
(I do, however, like cream cheese.)


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> DGreen, thank you, thank you, thank you for expending the energy and time to rebut Joey and her Tea Party "truths"---and doing it in clear, concise language that can be easily understood at least by most, if not all KPers. I am most grateful that you wrote this.
> (I do, however, like cream cheese.)


Thanks, Cookie. (I like cream cheese, too)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, Cookie. (I like cream cheese, too)


You shine Girl!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

SQM said:


> You shine Girl!


You, too, Sloth


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

aw9358 said:


> Ah freesia, conservative humour. A perfect dictionary definition of oxymoron.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Dgreen, that was an excellent rebuttal of those bizarre claims. However, as usual when someone demolishes one of their stupidities, I doubt we'll hear a peep out of any of them. I call it the "more tea, Vicar?" defence.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: I really like that one. "More tea, Vicar?"


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> That is NOT stalking!!!
> 
> That is "Quoting", a valid way of showing people what is being said, usually from the opposite "party".........
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Good distinction.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I say, why does Admin put up with this when usual public answer is, 'play quietly children?'



der_fisherman said:


> That implies to me that the "ignorant right wing Crazies here, accusing people of stalking them and/or calling everyone liars", are probably talking to Admin on a minute by minute basis....
> 
> The rest of us probably hardly make use of the possibility....
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

??? I've found most flat jokes to come from the right. Maybe there will be a funny one one day...or not.



SQM said:


> I missed the punch line.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I honestly believe after having dealt with admin for nearly 3 years on a semi weekly basis , that the squeaky wheel gets the attention. I have found them to be very fair but once they have answered that is it. Which to me is fair. I believe that the other side reports at least 4 or 5 times as many posts as we do. Personally unless it is really over the top I don't bother them as it doesn't matter and will be repeated again and again. So those are the ones admin gets tired of and so they are answered with words something like, you have had reports against you, just watch what you post. Not necessarily a threat although often taken as one.
> 
> If they report us 50% of the time that they say they will - it would be twice at least as often as we report them. I don't see reporting unless it is extremely cruel, or an obvious untrue insult . Better to call them on it publicly which has been done this past week on one over the top and extremely untrue post. Unless you get a specific pm from them saying you will be banned if you continue, I would take it as a statement that they have received complaints. However complaints are common from the other thread . Admin must be sick of them. They certainly don't answer posts that we don't send. I would imagine that rarely if ever have we reported KPG , even though we have no respect for her, She. however reports us or threatens to report us constantly, and I would think at least half of those threats are followed through.
> 
> ...


 :idea: :idea: :idea: Thanks for the insight, Shirley. Your last statement says it all.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DGreen said:


> Thanks, Beth, and others who liked my post. I appreciate the support. By tomorrow, I expect Joey will have read my response and will be sputtering with rage, but I do notice none of the "others" have taken issue with my words.
> 
> While I find the TP list beyond outrageous, I know thinking people can see it for what it is; inflammatory speech and wild speculation meaning nothing.
> 
> What BOTHERS me is the *flimsy excuse for proof *that is offered by those on the right even when the supposed proof doesn't pertain to the case in point. This indicates of a failure of critical thinking and logic at its worst.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

GOP attempt at humor.



DGreen said:


> Not funny.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

To me, the question is, is there any oversight at all? And my conclusion is NO.



Designer1234 said:


> I have reported someone three at the most in the years I have been on this thread.One recently which had nothing to do with me. HOWEVER, I have contacted admin twice over the years and asked them if those who tell me all the time that they are reporting me, have done so and I would appreciate it if they let me know if they felt I was overstepping (as I was concerned because of the workshops). Each time they have said if they had a problem they would let me know 'so don't worry about it'. They didn't answer my question which made me wonder if they took those 'reports' with a grain of salt and didn't pay attention. Whether that is the case doesn't really matter. Either those who threaten all the time are not actually reporting, or they report so often that no attention is paid to them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

der_fisherman said:


> She has no idea of what she has written when or how often or the poor impression she leaves behind.
> 
> I often wonder how such people who cannot manage their "online" lives cleanly, manage their "real" lives.....my guess is probably pretty poorly.....
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: My guess is the same.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Ah freesia, conservative humour. A perfect dictionary definition of oxymoron.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> DGreen, thank you, thank you, thank you for expending the energy and time to rebut Joey and her Tea Party "truths"---and doing it in clear, concise language that can be easily understood at least by most, if not all KPers. I am most grateful that you wrote this.
> (I do, however, like cream cheese.)


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Me too. Cream cheese and green olive sandwiches on toast. Cream cheese frosting. As a treat now and then.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Fox Journalist. Oxymoron. Leftie humor.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> To me, the question is, is there any oversight at all? And my conclusion is NO.


I thing they react to the posts they get. They have so many reports of different types from all over the forum that I would think that it is a full time job just dealing with them.I doubt that there is anyone from admin sitting and reading all the posts here or on any of the sections. It just doesn't strike me as something they are interested in doing nor do they have the time. They deal with trouble but don't come looking for it. I also think that if someone thumbs their nose at them or is nasty to them that they don't put up with that. I have found that if you treat them with respect they are fine. I never tried any other way to talk to then. Oh well, I could be completely off base but I don't think so.

------
Well, I did a lot of baking today and my shoulder is acting up. I lay down today for an hour lying flat without a pillow and it seemed to help the pain. Green, I appreciate your reply to my pm about your sale. 
I didn't realize you had shoulder problems too, but were able to get surgery. Glad to hear your pain is gone.

========

The blossoms here are so beautiful. The fruit trees are all in bloom and the smaller flowering shrubs are showing buds. This is a lovely place .


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen! Wow, I am impressed with your rebuttal to joeysomma.
Very articulate.
Take a bow!!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> DGreen! Wow, I am impressed with your rebuttal to joeysomma.
> Very articulate.
> Take a bow!!


Thanks so much. Can't let that TP BS go unchallenged.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Thanks so much. Can't let that TP BS go unchallenged.


I am with you on that. I am very leery about that party and what they will pull out of their arses next!!


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am with you on that. I am very leery about that party and what they will pull out of their arses next!!


They are mere tools of the Koch's. Think about the kind of mentality attracted to their club. Fundamentalist Christian extremists, the sovereignty wackos, anarchists. People on the fringes of sanity.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> dg I gave examples, they were opinions to explain how the Tea Parties predictions are coming true. 0bama is working on many of the predictions to make them true. We do have some good true Americans, who are working hard to stop him.
> 
> Some states are trying to regulate the sale of guns. The Fed has proposed, not successful. Obama has proposed the ban on the sale of one type of ammo, I never said there were no others. He wants to ban the most popular one, he says that it is armor piercing, and he is doing it to prevent the deaths of policemen. When in fact no policeman has ever been killed from this type of ammo. Once he bans one type, it will be easier to ban another. He has not succeeded but that does not mean he has not tried.
> 
> ...


Changing the subject and injecting extraneous arguments won't work with me. The statements are not true.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Joey, please read DGreen's information again. I think you missed something.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I feel so sad for you, since you have denied God, God has closed your mind to what is really going on in the world.


Your irrational belief in God has scrambled your brains.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Joey, please read DGreen's information again. I think you missed something.


Missed "something"?

No surprises here.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I feel so sad for you, since you have denied God, God has closed your mind to what is really going on in the world.


Joey
Facts about things that are happening in the world are FACTS and have nothing to do with belief in God. I don't think you understand that people who don't have a religion and/or a belief in God can and do live their lives with purpose and subscribe to a moral code. I don't have to look very hard or far to find many people wearing their Christianity on their sleeves who demonstrate very few of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I suggest that you open your closed mind and evaluate some of the things you and the Tea Party are espousing to see how they correlate with Christian doctrine.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Joey
> Facts about things that are happening in the world are FACTS and have nothing to do with belief in God. I don't think you understand that people who don't have a religion and/or a belief in God can and do live their lives with purpose and subscribe to a moral code. I don't have to look very hard or far to find many people wearing their Christianity on their sleeves who demonstrate very few of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I suggest that you open your closed mind and evaluate some of the things you and the Tea Party are espousing to see how they correlate with Christian doctrine.


Thank you, Cookie. I agree.

The problem we have here is a failure to comprehend and discern the difference between what can be supported as fact and what cannot.

I recognize the reality of Joey's views and beliefs, which are very real and very strong. She cites the reasons she believes as she does. Whether I agree with her is immaterial. She is entitled to her opinion and I'm entitled to disagree.

The PROBLEM here is the absolute insistence that an untrue statement can somehow be made true by giving examples that may be peripherally related because they are compelling to her. The TP statements are quite simply FALSE and no amount of arguing can change that.

For example, one of the statements is that Obama WILL REMOVE OUR BORDERS.

There is no equivocation in that statement. It does not say Obama will allow illegals to violate our borders. It does not say Obama doesn't defend the borders. It says quite plainly in clear language that he will REMOVE our borders. It would be instructional to know exactly how the writer of this alarming statement thinks Obama would accomplish this and even further, to what purpose. But that doesn't address the fundamental question. Is the statement true? Logically, since it is a future tense, for it to be true we must have some evidence that there is a plan or possibility of this actually, literally happening in the real world. On the face of it, the statement is absurd and no one (to my knowledge) has produced any evidence, any statement, any proposal, where removal of borders "will" be done. Joey still maintains the statement is true because of illegal immigration. The two are not related in any sense. Her ability to believe this is true is astonishing. But believe she does, along with the rest of the outrageous lies and fear-mongering produced by the extreme right wing.

Joey's god-talk? She likes getting in her digs because she knows it annoys me and for some reason seems to think that is the ultimate argument and the final word. Because god, which is, of course, the weakest argument there is.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Shirley, so happy you're enjoying the spring. hugs.



Designer1234 said:


> I thing they react to the posts they get. They have so many reports of different types from all over the forum that I would think that it is a full time job just dealing with them.I doubt that there is anyone from admin sitting and reading all the posts here or on any of the sections. It just doesn't strike me as something they are interested in doing nor do they have the time. They deal with trouble but don't come looking for it. I also think that if someone thumbs their nose at them or is nasty to them that they don't put up with that. I have found that if you treat them with respect they are fine. I never tried any other way to talk to then. Oh well, I could be completely off base but I don't think so.
> 
> ------
> Well, I did a lot of baking today and my shoulder is acting up. I lay down today for an hour lying flat without a pillow and it seemed to help the pain. Green, I appreciate your reply to my pm about your sale.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Was that a bow wow? Cool.



BrattyPatty said:


> DGreen! Wow, I am impressed with your rebuttal to joeysomma.
> Very articulate.
> Take a bow!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We all see God's abominations with our own eyes.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Right back at you.



joeysomma said:


> I feel so sad for you, since you have denied God, God has closed your mind to what is really going on in the world.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right. She missed it all.



DGreen said:


> Missed "something"?
> 
> No surprises here.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Excellent point from a TRUE Christian.



cookiequeen said:


> Joey
> Facts about things that are happening in the world are FACTS and have nothing to do with belief in God. I don't think you understand that people who don't have a religion and/or a belief in God can and do live their lives with purpose and subscribe to a moral code. I don't have to look very hard or far to find many people wearing their Christianity on their sleeves who demonstrate very few of the teachings of Jesus Christ. I suggest that you open your closed mind and evaluate some of the things you and the Tea Party are espousing to see how they correlate with Christian doctrine.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I feel so sad for you, since you have denied God, God has closed your mind to what is really going on in the world.


And I feel so sad and sorry for you. You are stubbornly refusing to use the greatest gift your god gave to you you - your brain. Please try to think for yourself instead of just repeating what others have told you to think. Try to examine evidence for yourself instead of just accepting the twisted and illogical thinking of others. And please honour your god by exercising and using his greatest gift to you - your brain. I feel so sad and sorry for you, you totally lack understanding and comprehension, but more that that you are completely void of any vestige of compassion for your fellow man, especially those in need of a helping hand.  :-(


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Amen.



EveMCooke said:


> And I feel so sad and sorry for you. You are stubbornly refusing to use the greatest gift your god gave to you you - your brain. Please try to think for yourself instead of just repeating what others have told you to think. Try to examine evidence for yourself instead of just accepting the twisted and illogical thinking of others. And please honour your god by exercising and using his greatest gift to you - your brain. I feel so sad and sorry for you, you totally lack understanding and comprehension, but more that that you are completely void of any vestige of compassion for your fellow man, especially those in need of a helping hand.  :-(


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## freesia792 (Feb 24, 2012)

As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)



EveMCooke said:


> And I feel so sad and sorry for you. You are stubbornly refusing to use the greatest gift your god gave to you you - your brain. Please try to think for yourself instead of just repeating what others have told you to think. Try to examine evidence for yourself instead of just accepting the twisted and illogical thinking of others. And please honour your god by exercising and using his greatest gift to you - your brain. I feel so sad and sorry for you, you totally lack understanding and comprehension, but more that that you are completely void of any vestige of compassion for your fellow man, especially those in need of a helping hand.  :-(


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


Thank you for your rant. I am a Buddhist, which by the way predates Christianity. There is definitely no need for your obscenities.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> ...Homosexuality is an abomination in God's eyes. He is the only one who counts. You and your ilk who encourage this to be a part of public school are sending children to HELL!
> I know you don't believe in it but your disbelief will not stop their going.


Your all-lovin' God sends little gay children to burn for all eternity? I'd laugh, but in fact it makes me angry that you so misrepresent Him.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


The message was sent in response to a post by Joeysomma, who may be irritating but I am sure she would be embarrassed by your vulgar and disgusting language.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway.


The "undead"? Care to elaborate on that? It brings to mind some sort of Zombie Apocalypse.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> The "undead"? Care to elaborate on that? It brings to mind some sort of Zombie Apocalypse.


I thought the tone of her message and the language she used was disgusting and totally uncalled for. Yes, I have reported the poster to Admin for the use of inappropriate language.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


Your cat is way cuter than you are


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I thought the tone of her message and the language she used was disgusting and totally uncalled for. Yes, I have reported the poster to Admin for the use of inappropriate language.


Good for you. I'm disappointed, though, that she chose not shed some light on that "undead" scenario she mentioned. It might have been highly entertaining--Muslim/Catholic/Buddhist/atheist zombies lurching about seeking "Christian" flesh. It sounds pretty far out, but after hearing the feverish fantasies of Madam Guillotine [aka Joey] nothing would surprise me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Your irrational belief in God has scrambled your brains.


DGreen
now that's the truth.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Your cat is way cuter than you are


I agree, SQM. In fact, I'm inclined to feel sorry for the poor thing--imagine having such a character for a mistress! Then again, maybe not--it's quite possible the creature has earned eternal damnation by operating as a familiar.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


EVIDENCE? EVIDENCE? I'm laughing myself silly. If you really had any evidence the news would be consumed with no other topic. Let's hear it, honey. Try not to dazzle us with the "proof in a baby's smile" or a beautiful sunset.

You're right about one thing. Faith does not lead atheists because faith is defined as having belief in something when there is no evidence to support that belief. But then, logic and reality are foreign concepts to theists.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> The "undead"? Care to elaborate on that? It brings to mind some sort of Zombie Apocalypse.


My opinion as an atheist: If she can believe in god and the bible, zombies are no stretch.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


Garbage


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Garbage


I think she's mad because we didn't appreciate her "humorous" meme.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


freesia792
your insecurities keep coming through loud and clear. Your lingering in some mysterious belief is making you angry and you are jealous of those who have no or other beliefs. Some of us have outgrown childish fairy tales and are roaming in reality free from oppressive rules made by some men long, long ago. We have been liberated and no longer fear any God nor the here after. I like the part where you say .."and you are all neutral". Neutral goes well with liberal. You may want to try that path and learn how unleashing that is. Shed your chains and enjoy some freedom.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: It feels like trying to talk sense to a 10 year old bully.


damemary
energy wasted.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> EVIDENCE? EVIDENCE? I'm laughing myself silly. If you really had any evidence the news would be consumed with no other topic. Let's hear it, honey. Try not to dazzle us with the "proof in a baby's smile" or a beautiful sunset.
> 
> You're right about one thing. Faith does not lead atheists because faith is defined as having belief in something when there is no evidence to support that belief. But then, logic and reality are foreign concepts to theists.


You so hit the nail on the head with this one, Green. Religion is based on faith, and many theists prove that their own is pretty shaky in obsession with locating some hard evidence. Hence they waste their lives toiling up the mountains searching for the wreckage of Noah's ark, or hosting multiple Middle East digs searching for bits of the Cross. It's pitiful.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

double post


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I go with the racism opinion. Barack Obama is more moderate than liberal. IMHO


damemary
racism is what drives the right and is nothing new.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> As I said I didn't expect an answer. It's obvious there was no truth to your post, you just wanted to sound important for a few minutes.


soloweygirl
write it down: "she is important" and that is what disturbs you so much. Sorry, you will have to live with it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Why are you making Solo's and Dame's business yours?
> Solo owes you no explanations for her statement.


knitpresentgifts
it is you who keeps showing up simply to cause discourse and putting your nose into every conversation seems to make you feel important for some strange reason. Your Pals no longer keeping you on a pedestal I guess. How many times have you told them that you were leaving for good?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Something to think about. To Christians who practice what they preach and are not extremists, I don't think this applies to you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It must be awful to live in her world. Oops, I better behave or she will rat on me too!


Bratty Patty
she is going for a record of MOST complaints filed.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> You so hit the nail on the head with this one, Green. Religion is based on faith, and many theists prove that their own is pretty shaky in obsession with locating some hard evidence. Hence they waste their lives toiling up the mountains searching for the wreckage of Noah's ark, or hosting multiple Middle East digs searching for bits of the Cross. It's pitiful.


Keep them digging. Encourage them. Perhaps it will distract them from trying to pass legislation imposing their rules on everyone.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> I have long suspected an organic problem. Seriously. There appears to be a pathological cognitive disconnect. I wonder if it is contagious and transmitted by reading too much right wing propaganda?


DGreen
you know, it is so easy to lasso in weak minds.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Something to think about. To Christians who practice what they preach and are not extremists, I don't think this applies to you!


DGreen
THANK YOU. It hits the spot.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> you know, it is so easy to lasso in weak minds.


Judging from the fundies I'm familiar with, they are fooled by "evidence" that is stretched so thin one can see through it, but they fail to see through it. The same people seem to believe multiple conspiracy theories (even ones that directly contradict each other), and right-wing talking points. Ahhh, the eternal sunshine of an uncluttered mind.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Sorry for the numerous memes today, but this one is particularly insightful and I think it is pertinent to the rant posted earlier today against atheists. Food for thought on numerous levels.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Keep them digging. Encourage them. Perhaps it will distract them from trying to pass legislation imposing their rules on everyone.


Right you are, Green. It's an interesting phenomena--a bunch of Bible-thumping goofs are inspired by their god to grab shovels and race up and down the slopes of eastern Turkey. Maybe the fact that it always turns out to be a wild goose chase lasting a couple of decades is proof indeed that He does have some concern for the world. Idle hands are the Devil's playthings, after all--maybe next they'll be be inspired to mush up Mount Everest to convert the Yeti (sans oxygen cylinders, of course, as a true test of faith).


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> About 25 years ago. There was a program on network TV (I don't remember if it was ABC, CBS, or NBC), about the discovery of what could be Noah's Ark. These were scientists, not your so-called right wing extremists. The glacier that had enclosed it had thawed a bit so it was seen. They were able to get inside, and found the measurements and description fit the statements in the Bible. I'm sure you will not believe this, but that is your problem, not mine.


"About 25 years ago"..."ABC, CBS, or NBC"...a discovery by unnamed, anonymous "scientists"--pretty hard to believe that the discovery of a true Biblical artifact could be described in such vague, non-specific language even two and a half decades later. You're right, I don't believe it and you probably don't either--not in your heart of hearts, else you wouldn't be afraid to put your beliefs to the test and check out the claim yourself.


----------



## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Here we go again. I thought religious belief was based on faith, not proof. If you have proof, the need for faith disappears. They can't have it both ways - silly me, of course they can.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

aw9358 said:


> Here we go again. I thought religious belief was based on faith, not proof. If you have proof, the need for faith disappears. They can't have it both ways - silly me, of course they can.


aw9358
what keeps religion going is the fact, that there are no facts and the gullible just hang on to manipulated versions of many stories. Ever wonder why many people rarely visit a Cemetery? They do not want to be pushed into reality. None of those entombed who believed have risen to a seat in the make believe Heaven and that is something they do not want to deal with. We came from the Earth and return to the Earth. Not a pretty thought but it is what it is, fact.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> "About 25 years ago"..."ABC, CBS, or NBC"...a discovery by unnamed, anonymous "scientists"--pretty hard to believe that the discovery of a true Biblical artifact could be described in such vague, non-specific language even two and a half decades later. You're right, I don't believe it and you probably don't either--not in your heart of hearts, else you wouldn't be afraid to put your beliefs to the test and check out the claim yourself.


susanmos2000
with all of the modern technology, IF there is even the slightest chance that it is Noah's Arc, great efforts would have been made by those who want it to be true, to retrieve it BUT as with many other things, they do not want the truth to come out. Make believe gives a much better feeling about many subjects. Facts would destroy them and standing bare is not a pretty sight.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> "About 25 years ago"..."ABC, CBS, or NBC"...a discovery by unnamed, anonymous "scientists"--pretty hard to believe that the discovery of a true Biblical artifact could be described in such vague, non-specific language even two and a half decades later. You're right, I don't believe it and you probably don't either--not in your heart of hearts, else you wouldn't be afraid to put your beliefs to the test and check out the claim yourself.


Susan, Joey also trumpets "proof" of Jonah of the bible because someone caught a fish recently whose size made swallowing a man somewhat plausible. No word on whether a man could survive three days following such an event, but hey, no stretch is too great for real bible believers.

Even FOX isn't behind the Ark story.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/04/30/noahs-ark-hoax-claim-doesnt-deter-believers/?test=latestnews


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> susanmos2000
> with all of the modern technology, IF there is even the slightest chance that it is Noah's Arc, great efforts would have been made by those who want it to be true, to retrieve it BUT as with many other things, they do not want the truth to come out.


...and will go to great and bizarre lengths to prevent this from happening. Like that dude who stole railroad cross ties, cooked them on his barbecue, and tried to pass them off as bits of the ark. Even from the Christian Fundamentalists' point of view all the obsession over the ark is hard for me to understand. If all their reported sightings were in fact true, one would have to conclude that God was engaged in some elaborate game of peekaboo, ie moving the wreckage from mountain to mountain, teasing expeditionaries by allowing them a tantalizing glimpse before hiding the thing in a glacier.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Here we go again. I thought religious belief was based on faith, not proof. If you have proof, the need for faith disappears. They can't have it both ways - silly me, of course they can.


Excellent, AW! Good to have a logical thinker around.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and will go to great and bizarre lengths to prevent this from happening. Like that dude who stole railroad cross ties, cooked them on his barbecue, and tried to pass them off as bits of the ark. Even from the Christian Fundamentalists' point of view all the obsession over the ark is hard for me to understand. If all their reported sightings were in fact true, one would have to conclude that God was engaged in some elaborate game of peekaboo, ie moving the wreckage from mountain to mountain, teasing expeditionaries by allowing them a tantalizing glimpse before hiding the thing in a glacier.


The Ark is a piece of their creationist, 6,000 year-old earth mythology, hence the obsession.

The Turks have made a lot of money capitalizing on this obsession. God's not playing peek-a-boo - it's the Turks and they're laughing all the way to the bank.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> A Christian Company that practices what they preach!
> 
> _Two years ago Chick-fil-A made national headlines when company president Dan Cathy spoke out in support of traditional marriage. Liberals and gays came unglued and launched massive protests against the restaurant chain. Several mayors spoke out saying they would not allow any more Chick-fil-As to be built in their cities.
> 
> _


Christians acting like Christians. Refreshing, Joey. You should try it.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A Christian Company that practices what they preach!
> 
> _Two years ago Chick-fil-A made national headlines when company president Dan Cathy spoke out in support of traditional marriage. Liberals and gays came unglued and launched massive protests against the restaurant chain. Several mayors spoke out saying they would not allow any more Chick-fil-As to be built in their cities.
> 
> ...


It's obvious you haven't been keeping up with the news, Joey. Chik-Fil-A came to its senses and started ridding itself of anti-LGBT policies back in 2012 by issuing a statement that in the future their intent would be to " leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena." They've really cleaned up their act over the years by stating that will henceforth "treat every person equally, regardless of sexual orientation" and by cutting their funding to all those anti-LGBT groups. They're to be applauded for their change of heart.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> The Ark is a piece of their creationist, 6,000 year-old earth mythology, hence the obsession.
> 
> The Turks have made a lot of money capitalizing on this obsession. God's not playing peek-a-boo - it's the Turks and they're laughing all the way to the bank.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Double post


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's obvious you haven't been keeping up with the news, Joey. Chik-Fil-A came to its senses and started ridding itself of anti-LGBT policies back in 2012 by issuing a statement that in the future their intent would be to " leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena." They've really cleaned up their act over the years by stating that will henceforth "treat every person equally, regardless of sexual orientation" and by cutting their funding to all those anti-LGBT groups. They're to be applauded for their change of heart.


I had not heard that. Another refreshing story, Susan. Thanks.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> A Christian Company that practices what they preach!
> 
> _Two years ago Chick-fil-A made national headlines when company president Dan Cathy spoke out in support of traditional marriage. Liberals and gays came unglued and launched massive protests against the restaurant chain. Several mayors spoke out saying they would not allow any more Chick-fil-As to be built in their cities.
> 
> ...


Fantastic! I hadn't heard this story, God is alive and well and blessing Chick-fil-A tenfold. Amen and Amen.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> About 25 years ago. There was a program on network TV (I don't remember if it was ABC, CBS, or NBC), about the discovery of what could be Noah's Ark. These were scientists, not your so-called right wing extremists. The glacier that had enclosed it had thawed a bit so it was seen. They were able to get inside, and found the measurements and description fit the statements in the Bible. I'm sure you will not believe this, but that is your problem, not mine.


Back in the day, The Mickey Mouse Club was also on one of those channels.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I do not need to see a piece of the Ark to know it was real. I can see the results of the world wide flood, in the Grand Canyon, the moraines of Wisconsin, and the fish and dinosaur fossils in the mountains. How do you explain how the fish got to the mountain tops?
> 
> I would imagine you believe in Evolution? It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than in the Bible.


The earth changes. Waters recede, mountains get pushed up. Even if there is evidence of a flood, it does not logically follow that there was an ark. And why would Noah invite Mosquitos aboard?


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> I do not need to see a piece of the Ark to know it was real. I can see the results of the world wide flood, in the Grand Canyon, the moraines of Wisconsin, and the fish and dinosaur fossils in the mountains. How do you explain how the fish got to the mountain tops?
> 
> I would imagine you believe in Evolution? It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than in the Bible.


Amen! That is for sure. How many incidents from the Bible have to be proven by archiologists before people admit that the Bible is true? It seems like no matter how much is discovered, it is denied.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> And I feel so sad and sorry for you. You are stubbornly refusing to use the greatest gift your god gave to you you - your brain. Please try to think for yourself instead of just repeating what others have told you to think. Try to examine evidence for yourself instead of just accepting the twisted and illogical thinking of others. And please honour your god by exercising and using his greatest gift to you - your brain. I feel so sad and sorry for you, you totally lack understanding and comprehension, but more that that you are completely void of any vestige of compassion for your fellow man, especially those in need of a helping hand.  :-(


So true, Eve. When I was a little girl I questioned things I was being taught at church and asked my mother what should I do. She tapped my head and said God gave you a brain for a reason, to use it. You don't follow along blindly. It was some of the best advice I was ever given. Too bad too many people put on their blinders and refuse to see the truth that surrounds them. I think for some it gives them a sense of security to follow along like good little soldiers and question nothing. To them the world is a scary place. I think they are going to be in for some big surprises down the road. All that judging of others and assuming they did along the way will sadly come back at them quite harshly. As they love to say you reap what you sow and they will reap the whirlwind.


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> "About 25 years ago"..."ABC, CBS, or NBC"...a discovery by unnamed, anonymous "scientists"--pretty hard to believe that the discovery of a true Biblical artifact could be described in such vague, non-specific language even two and a half decades later. You're right, I don't believe it and you probably don't either--not in your heart of hearts, else you wouldn't be afraid to put your beliefs to the test and check out the claim yourself.


You probably still deny the Shroud of Turin even though it's still failed to be disproved. DENIAL.


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

aw9358 said:


> Here we go again. I thought religious belief was based on faith, not proof. If you have proof, the need for faith disappears. They can't have it both ways - silly me, of course they can.


----------



## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

aw9358 said:


> Here we go again. I thought religious belief was based on faith, not proof. If you have proof, the need for faith disappears. They can't have it both ways - silly me, of course they can.


I can have faith in the ultimate truth of something and have a "knowing" that overtime my faith can be proven justified.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Betsy Ross said:


> You probably still deny the Shroud of Turin even though it's still failed to be disproved. DENIAL.


Sorry lady but it was carbon dated and proved to be centuries younger than hoped

You sound like the type that sees god's face in a grilled cheese.


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Sorry lady but it was carbon dated and proved to be centuries younger than hoped
> 
> You sound like the type that sees god's face in a grilled cheese.


Scientists have said that an earthquake in 33AD could have caused the Xray-like image AND confused dating techniques.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Amen! That is for sure. How many incidents from the Bible have to be proven by archiologists before people admit that the Bible is true? It seems like no matter how much is discovered, it is denied.


The simple fact is, you believe in Jesus, God and the Bible and others don't. So what? Why do you and the rest of you feel you have to rush in and defend your position?

Why do these discussions often come down to whether the Bible teachings are true or not? You say they are, I say they're not. Get a grip!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> You so hit the nail on the head with this one, Green. Religion is based on faith, and many theists prove that their own is pretty shaky in obsession with locating some hard evidence. Hence they waste their lives toiling up the mountains searching for the wreckage of Noah's ark, or hosting multiple Middle East digs searching for bits of the Cross. It's pitiful.


Yes, where is this faith that they say is so strong? Sadly lacking I'd say.


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## Betsy Ross (Jun 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> The simple fact is, you believe in Jesus, God and the Bible and others don't. So what? Why do you and the rest of you feel you have to rush in and defend your position?
> 
> Why do these discussions often come down to whether the Bible teachings are true or not? You say they are, I say they're not. Get a grip!


Because you imply we're crazy for believing, so of course some of us would love to be able to prove it to you.

But sometimes it feels lime no matter how much proof there is, you're just gonna live in denial no matter what.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> ...and will go to great and bizarre lengths to prevent this from happening. Like that dude who stole railroad cross ties, cooked them on his barbecue, and tried to pass them off as bits of the ark. Even from the Christian Fundamentalists' point of view all the obsession over the ark is hard for me to understand. If all their reported sightings were in fact true, one would have to conclude that God was engaged in some elaborate game of peekaboo, ie moving the wreckage from mountain to mountain, teasing expeditionaries by allowing them a tantalizing glimpse before hiding the thing in a glacier.


Susanmos2000
lots of material for fiction writers.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I do not need to see a piece of the Ark to know it was real. I can see the results of the world wide flood, in the Grand Canyon, the moraines of Wisconsin, and the fish and dinosaur fossils in the mountains. How do you explain how the fish got to the mountain tops?
> 
> I would imagine you believe in Evolution? It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than in the Bible.


joeysomma
of course we believe in Evolution and Science can proof it step by step. Of course some of you folks do not believe in Science, too tough to grab and flunked it during the basic school years. We get it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> The earth changes. Waters recede, mountains get pushed up. Even if there is evidence of a flood, it does not logically follow that there was an ark. And why would Noah invite Mosquitos aboard?


SQM 
cute, the Mosquito part.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Betsy Ross said:


> Scientists have said that an earthquake in 33AD could have caused the Xray-like image AND confused dating techniques.


Must have been a quake with an incredibly small radius if only one man and one's man's burial cloth showed the effects. :roll:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I do not need to see a piece of the Ark to know it was real. I can see the results of the world wide flood, in the Grand Canyon, the moraines of Wisconsin, and the fish and dinosaur fossils in the mountains. How do you explain how the fish got to the mountain tops?
> 
> I would imagine you believe in Evolution? It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than in the Bible.


joeysomma
had you paid attention in school, you would have the right answer to all of this unless you were taught by Nuns and Priests. They pushed their own agenda.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Betsy Ross said:


> Because you imply we're crazy for believing, so of course some of us would love to be able to prove it to you.
> 
> But sometimes it feels lime no matter how much proof there is, you're just gonna live in denial no matter what.


First sentence correct.

Second sentence incorrect. There has never been proof that a god exists so you're the one in denial.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sorry, I got into the wrong pew.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Amen! That is for sure. How many incidents from the Bible have to be proven by archiologists before people admit that the Bible is true? It seems like no matter how much is discovered, it is denied.


Betsy Ross
Gods have always been a figment of people's imagination and never proven to exist. No problem if someone wants to believe in this stuff, just keep it to yourself. The rest of the world is into reality and doesn't want to be bothered with your stories. We have outgrown them.


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## aw9358 (Nov 1, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Betsy Ross
> Gods have always been a figment of people's imagination and never proven to exist. No problem if someone wants to believe in this stuff, just keep it to yourself. The rest of the world is into reality and doesn't want to be bothered with your stories. We have outgrown them.


Well said. I've never understood why they feel the need to push their beliefs on to the rest of us. If, as they say, it's our loss, why should they care?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Susanmos2000
> lots of material for fiction writers.


Sure is. In fact, virtually all of the material generated by the Fundamentalists is fodder for writers and comedians. I particularly like their torturous explanations of how Noah crammed all those animals onto his ark. Lots of fancy mental footwork involved, no question.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

aw9358 said:


> Well said. I've never understood why they feel the need to push their beliefs on to the rest of us. If, as they say, it's our loss, why should they care?


Look back a few pages to the meme I posted. I believe it is true they can't stand atheists because we are free thinkers and can't be controlled, resist propaganda, and represent the threat of exposing their scam. We keep trying but the bible thumpers get to their victims in childhood before we can save them.

Remember, too, there are MANY (you know this) who believe that acceptance of homosexuality and abortion and widening rejection of religion is the cause of our world's problems - god is PISSED. Just last week one of the more extreme on this thread suggested that god was angry and that was the reason for bad weather somewhere in the country. Because god is well known for punishing everyone for the transgressions of a few (like the mythical flood), they fear their kind, loving, merciful and just god will punish them if they don't do everything they can to stop us evildoers.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Betsy Ross said:


> Because you imply we're crazy for believing, so of course some of us would love to be able to prove it to you.
> 
> But sometimes it feels lime no matter how much proof there is, you're just gonna live in denial no matter what.


so???


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sure is. In fact, virtually all of the material generated by the Fundamentalists is fodder for writers and comedians. I particularly like their torturous explanations of how Noah crammed all those animals onto his ark. Lots of fancy mental footwork involved, no question.


40 days of having to feed that menagerie, then get rid of the poop. That's one big boat.

Torturous too, is how Noah's story fits in with the Garden of Eden. Even apologists have to admit that there was a lot of incest going on in the early days - to claim anything else would be wildly inconsistent with the origin of man. So, apparently incest was perfectly ok back then because humans were pure and didn't have to worry about deformities and such. Not until a few years later, when sin corrupted our genes and bad stuff started to happen, and all that sin, of course. After the flood, god decided to stop the incest so how is it that the rest of the world was killed off and only the few on the boat survived to repopulate the earth - without incest? Curious dilemma there.

And what about the plants that were drowned? What did the animals and people eat when they got off the boat to stretch their legs?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> 40 days of having to feed that menagerie, then get rid of the poop. That's one big boat.
> 
> Torturous too, is how Noah's story fits in with the Garden of Eden. Even apologists have to admit that there was a lot of incest going on in the early days - to claim anything else would be wildly inconsistent with the origin of man. So, apparently incest was perfectly ok back then because humans were pure and didn't have to worry about deformities and such. Not until a few years later, when sin corrupted our genes and bad stuff started to happen, and all that sin, of course. After the flood, god decided to stop the incest so how is it that the rest of the world was killed off and only the few on the boat survived to repopulate the earth - without incest? Curious dilemma there.
> 
> And what about the plants that were drowned? What did the animals and people eat when they got off the boat to stretch their legs?


No idea. I guess the carnivorous animals could have munched on the survivors, but the herbivores? They'd have had a problem.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Look back a few pages to the meme I posted. I believe it is true they can't stand atheists because we are free thinkers and can't be controlled, resist propaganda, and represent the threat of exposing their scam. We keep trying but the bible thumpers get to their victims in childhood before we can save them.
> 
> Remember, too, there are MANY (you know this) who believe that acceptance of homosexuality and abortion and widening rejection of religion is the cause of our world's problems - god is PISSED. Just last week one of the more extreme on this thread suggested that god was angry and that was the reason for bad weather somewhere in the country. Because god is well known for punishing everyone for the transgressions of a few (like the mythical flood), they fear their kind, loving, merciful and just god will punish them if they don't do everything they can to stop us evildoers.


DGreen
who would want to hang on to such an ugly Father who does nothing but punish? Makes no sense to any thinking person, does it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No idea. I guess the carnivorous animals could have munched on the survivors, but the herbivores? They'd have had a problem.


If we hang around long enough, I'm sure one of the Christians who have been blessed with such knowledge will enlighten us.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> who would want to hang on to such an ugly Father who does nothing but punish? Makes no sense to any thinking person, does it.


Nope.

That's why they have to first sell the idea of sin so people will feel guilt and the need to be saved from themselves because they are so much worse and because he will punish them for eternity if they don't beg and believe. Exhausting to follow their rationale.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hmmmm.



freesia792 said:


> As far as I'm concerned, you agnostic's or what ever the hell sorry you call yourself are going to hell or the undead anyway. We Christians are not. WE HAVE EVIDENCE. Apparently, you have yours. You have obommers bible, and we have ours. I have prayed for you for days, and have learned it is no longer ignorance on your behalf, but willful disobedience. You have made your own fate. If you wish to be offensive FUK* THE KORAN. BIBLE OF THE IGNORANT. NOT ONE atheist will protest this, because as we know = you have no faith, so faith does not lead you. (and you are all neutral)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Easier if someone tells you what to think?



DGreen said:


> Sorry for the numerous memes today, but this one is particularly insightful and I think it is pertinent to the rant posted earlier today against atheists. Food for thought on numerous levels.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder why this is not more well known.



joeysomma said:


> About 25 years ago. There was a program on network TV (I don't remember if it was ABC, CBS, or NBC), about the discovery of what could be Noah's Ark. These were scientists, not your so-called right wing extremists. The glacier that had enclosed it had thawed a bit so it was seen. They were able to get inside, and found the measurements and description fit the statements in the Bible. I'm sure you will not believe this, but that is your problem, not mine.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> "About 25 years ago"..."ABC, CBS, or NBC"...a discovery by unnamed, anonymous "scientists"--pretty hard to believe that the discovery of a true Biblical artifact could be described in such vague, non-specific language even two and a half decades later. You're right, I don't believe it and you probably don't either--not in your heart of hearts, else you wouldn't be afraid to put your beliefs to the test and check out the claim yourself.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Back in the day, The Mickey Mouse Club was also on one of those channels.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Must have been a quake with an incredibly small radius if only one man and one's man's burial cloth showed the effects. :roll:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Perhaps they had a store of Cheerios.



susanmos2000 said:


> No idea. I guess the carnivorous animals could have munched on the survivors, but the herbivores? They'd have had a problem.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Betsy Ross said:


> Because you imply we're crazy for believing, so of course some of us would love to be able to prove it to you.
> 
> But sometimes it feels lime no matter how much proof there is, you're just gonna live in denial no matter what.


I've implied no such thing. I simply stated two facts; 1. You believe in Jesus, G-d and the bible and, 2. I do not. I'm not in denial, I simply do not believe. You, on the other hand, with your histrionic response, has answered one of my questions and that is, you and your ilk are the reason why discussions on these threads deteriorate to an argument about whether Jesus, the Bible and G-d is true or not.

Who cares anyway? I certainly don't and I couldn't care less if the Rapture or the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse or both, descend to take my bad a$$ wretched soul to hell and damnation. It's either that or disease, pestilence or trauma otherwise. :mrgreen:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I do not need to see a piece of the Ark to know it was real. I can see the results of the world wide flood, in the Grand Canyon, the moraines of Wisconsin, and the fish and dinosaur fossils in the mountains. How do you explain how the fish got to the mountain tops?
> 
> I would imagine you believe in Evolution? It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than in the Bible.


Joey
Have you ever heard of figurative language, symbolism, allegory, metaphor, etc? You just cannot take every word in the Bible literally.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Joey
> Have you ever heard of figurative language, symbolism, allegory, metaphor, etc? You just cannot take every word in the Bible literally.


Yes she can, and does.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Joey
> Have you ever heard of figurative language, symbolism, allegory, metaphor, etc? You just cannot take every word in the Bible literally.


But oh how they try! and twist themselves into pretzels in the process--a chiropractor's worst nightmare.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> About 25 years ago. There was a program on network TV (I don't remember if it was ABC, CBS, or NBC), about the discovery of what could be Noah's Ark. These were scientists, not your so-called right wing extremists. The glacier that had enclosed it had thawed a bit so it was seen. They were able to get inside, and found the measurements and description fit the statements in the Bible. I'm sure you will not believe this, but that is your problem, not mine.


If the Ark was discovered about 25 or more years ago, then what is going on in this article from Charisma News, written two days ago: http://www.charismanews.com/world/48839-scientists-find-evidence-of-genesis-flood-and-noah-s-ark

*Scientists Find Evidence of Genesis Flood and Noah's Ark*
JESSILYN JUSTICE

_Mysterious metal lumps discovered along the ocean floor queued up scientific minds in a puzzle that's amounted to nothing more than guessing gamesuntil now.

"These metallic pellets provide strong evidence that most seafloor sediments were deposited rapidly, not slowly and gradually over millions of years. Are these nodules evidence of the Genesis Flood?" writes creation scientist Jake Hebert.

Though other nodules have been discovered in the past, none were in such a concentrated area.

Evolutionary scientists are perplexed.

"These were very, very circular, which is strange," Colin Devey, chief scientist for the expedition and a volcanologist at the GEOMAR Helmholtz Centre for Ocean Research Devey tells LiveScience. "They usually look like cow flops."

To Hebert, though, it's evidence of the Genesis Flood and Noah's ark.

"Toward the end of the Genesis Flood, sheets of water receding off the continents would have rapidly eroded and dumped enormous amounts of sediment into the ocean basins," Hebert writes. "The presence of geological features called planation surfaces on every continent is very difficult for uniformitarian scientists to explain, but it is perfectly consistent with the Flood's rapid erosion and deposition of sediment. Furthermore, the warm, mineral-rich oceans during and after the Flood would have been conducive to the growth of phytoplankton such as algae."

Is this definitive proof of the Noah's ark? Sound off!_

??? Could there have been two arks? Or is there a simpler answer?

http://www.livescience.com/49820-manganese-nodules-atlantic-ocean.html


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Yes she can, and does.


There is no grey with Joey ever - she never questions and never wonders- everything is black and white.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why you have not answered my question. Where did you see the statement by Bibi? Which TV network or website?
> 
> I have seen a statement in Hebrew, but not in English.


It was on CNN.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Well!!! Thank you Shirley!!!


You're welcome, dingbat!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I found this on CNN:
> 
> http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2015/03/16/ct-israel-netanyahu-palestinian-state-comments.cnn
> 
> ...


Give it up joeysomma. Is it beyond your comprehension that Hebrew can be translated? Strange how many came up with the same translation.
You are nit picking this to death! I shared plenty of links last night.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I wonder why you have not answered my question. Where did you see the statement by Bibi? Which TV network or website?
> 
> I have seen a statement in Hebrew, but not in English.


joeysomma
you conveniently keep missing information not fitting into your agenda. Netanyahu is trying to walk back some promises he made just a few days prior to the election. This of course will result in no-one believing anything he will spout from now on. The people of Israel deserve better.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> you conveniently keep missing information not fitting into your agenda. Netanyahu is trying to walk back some promises he made just a few days prior to the election. This of course will result in no-one believing anything he will spout from now on. The people of Israel deserve better.


Huck,
I agree. He hoodwinked the people of Israel.


----------



## kristinacavaz (Mar 4, 2015)

You know what gets me is the militarization of the police. They are all geared up like Robocop. Even the women police wearing all this gear, they look as if to topple over with the weight of all that "stuff". It looks ridiculous. From what I've read on police forums and in politico sites, Israeli IDF is training and "educating" our local police forces. Hence all the "gearing up" I suppose. Why have a military- in fact a *foreign* military at that- be training OUR little town police. Shaking my head.


----------



## kristinacavaz (Mar 4, 2015)

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck,
> I agree. He hoodwinked the people of Israel.


if you want to watch something funny- there is a video of Sara Netanyahu escorting a journalist through her "decrepit old shack of a home": the Netanyahu's were recently chastised for spending public funds on renovations on their palatial estate. Netanyahu's said "Who ME??" they fraudulently showed off their terrible terrible home and tried to pass of the servant's quarters as their OWN! lololol! 




"Netanyahu has been left red-faced after a video shot by a celebrity home
designer depicting his modest lifestyle was revealed to be recorded in
his servants' quarters.

The 15-minute film by Moshik Galamin
showed Mr Netanyahu's wife Sara guiding the viewer around the couple's
home, where run down parts of the property such as creaking doors and
frayed carpets, are detailed.

But it has now emerged Galamin was not
granted access to the couple's upstairs living quarters, and Israel's
Channel 10 TV claimed the kitchen in question was not even the one the
Netanyahus use, but rather a secondary administrative kitchen."


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Well!!! Thank you Shirley!!!


When you asked the question, I wasn't online. When I came on the answer was there from someone else who saw it,so I didn't bother. It is the same answer

You love to argue and truth doesn't matter so go ahead and argue. I am turning you off.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was on CNN.


http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-backs-away-from-rejection-of-two-state-solution/ - 190k -

It was on MSNBC too and the text in the Times of Israel. When he realized what he had said wasn't popular he did a big old flip flop. bibi is a big baby and he can't have it both ways.

"On Monday, Netanyahu had told Israeli news outlet Maariv that he would not allow a Palestinian state on his watch, as he attempted to rally voters from the right to cast ballots for his Likud party ahead of Tuesdays election.

The statement was seen as an about face of Netanyahus 2009 Bar-Ilan speech, during which he said he was committed to a two-state solution.

Netanyahu handily won the election Tuesday against center-left rival Isaac Herzog, in part, analysts said, because of his last-ditch hardline appeal.

The comment brought an international backlash, with sources saying the White House may pull back support for Israel at the United Nations, compounding the prime ministers already fractured relationship with US President Barack Obama."

Read more: Netanyahu backs away from rejection of two-state solution | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-backs-away-from-rejection-of-two-state-solution/#ixzz3VB9QrPV5 
Follow us: @timesofisrael on Twitter | timesofisrael on Facebook  :thumbdown:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Where is the first interview? This one is all over the news. Shirley claimed she saw and heard him say there was to not be a Palestinian State. That is the one I am wondering where she heard and saw it? The only one I have found is where he is speaking in Hebrew. and we hear the English translation as an over voice.


Read what was in the Times of Israel. I have posted it for you and provided a link to the paper too. Did the Times lie too? You are seriously screwed up joey. Put on your thinking cap and take 10 deep breaths of air before you keel over. Admit it. You got it wrong.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is about the second interview. Where is the first interview?


What was in The Times IS the first interview. HIS EXACT WORDS!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Their discovery is consistent with a world wide flood. I don't know why the Ark would have a part in their discovery. Thank you for the website.


But you seem to have missed the part about the ark being discovered 25 years ago, as you informed us, and yet this year they're talking about signs that the Ark may have just been discovered.

Have you ever done the geometry on a worldwide flood? Very interesting.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I've implied no such thing. I simply stated two facts; 1. You believe in Jesus, G-d and the bible and, 2. I do not. I'm not in denial, I simply do not believe. You, on the other hand, with your histrionic response, has answered one of my questions and that is, you and your ilk are the reason why discussions on these threads deteriorate to an argument about whether Jesus, the Bible and G-d is true or not.
> 
> Who cares anyway? I certainly don't and I couldn't care less if the Rapture or the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse or both, descend to take my bad a$$ wretched soul to hell and damnation. It's either that or disease, pestilence or trauma otherwise. :mrgreen:


*This message is sent with tongue firmly planted in cheek. So please do not read any further if you are easily offended.*

Wombat, this is a message that you will understand because you are an Aussie.

As I have said for over 60 years now, I definitely do not want to go to heaven when I die. Why? Because I have seen the mob who reckon they are definitely going to heaven when they die and if they are going there I definitely want to head in the other direction. When they say they are going definitely to heaven then it would not be heaven if they are there, it would be pure hell. Therefore I am going to hell because they will not be there, so it will he heaven. Hey just look at all the mob that these born again christians are sending to hell, it sure looks like a great crowd down there, plus there are more of them down in hell than there are in heaven so less work to do in hell - more work to do in heaven because of the shortage of labour, so hell it is for me please. As an Aussie Bush Baptist and devout Callithumpian I am sure you would want to come downstairs also. I am also not that fond of heights, so floating around upstairs on those fluffy clouds with nothing to support me apart from gossamer wings on my back.......no thanks the thought of falling is too great.

*If you were offended by this message, I did warn you not to read it, so please do not complain to me that I am insulting you or prejudging you or calling you names, or are being mean to you, or any other such rubbish, because I am not. You were warned. *


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But you seem to have missed the part about the ark being discovered 25 years ago, as you informed us, and yet this year they're talking about signs that the Ark may have just been discovered.
> 
> Have you ever done the geometry on a worldwide flood? Very interesting.


sorry posted in wrong place.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Their discovery is consistent with a world wide flood. I don't know why the Ark would have a part in their discovery. Thank you for the website.


There have been claims after claim after claims that the Ark has been discovered, unfortunately all have proven to be incorrect. The image most people post as positive proof has been proven to be a natural rock formation and definitely not the Ark.

The latest claim that the Ark has been discovered, including photos supposedly shown inside the said Ark cannot be confirmed because the people who posted the article about the discovery refuse to answer questions about their discovery.

There have been so many pilgrimages to the site over the centuries. In the middle ages a church was built on the site and the church was built using wood recycled from older structures.

I will just post three articles regarding these discoveries.

Article 1

Modern organized searches for the ark tend to originate in American evangelical circles. One academic study[7]comments 
"an interesting phenomenon that has arisen within twentieth-century conservative American evangelism  the widespread conviction that the ancient Ark of Noah is embedded in ice high atop Mount Ararat, waiting to be found.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searches_for_Noah%27s_Ark

Article 2

Noah's Ark Found in Turkey? Is this real?

Yes, "Noah's Ark" has been found again. Only this time, it seems to be really made of wood, rather than some geological formation. The main question is how the wood got to 13,000 feet up Mt. Ararat. As a believer in the local flood interpretation of Genesis, I don't believe that Noah's ark came to rest 13,000 feet up any mountain. Most likely, it landed in some foothill area and was disassembled for housing and/or firewood. So, confirming that the wood belonged to a 4,800 year old boat at the 13,000 foot elevation of Mt. Ararat would require a major paradigm shift for me. However, I would be more than willing to make such a paradigm shift should the discovery turn out to be authentic. Archeologist Dr. Randall Price seems convinced that the "ark" is an elaborate hoax perpetrated by a Kurdish guide, to extract money from gullible Christians. Time will tell, when scientists are allowed to travel to the site and examine the evidence. I am not going to hold my breath on this one.

http://www.godandscience.org/doctrine/noahs_ark_found.html
image: http://www.snopes.com/images/content-divider.gif

image: http://www.snopes.com/images/red.gif

FALSE

image: http://www.snopes.com/images/content-divider.gif

Article 3

I recently ran into an article saying that Noah's Ark has been discovered. All the research seems to be there, but I take everything with a grain of salt from the internet. Can you please look into this for me?

http://www.snopes.com/religion/noahsark.asp

Regarding the fossils on sea creatures found on the tops of mountains. You are no doubt with the theory plate tectonics

a theory explaining the structure of the earth's crust and many associated phenomena as resulting from the interaction of rigid lithospheric plates that move slowly over the underlying mantle.

You no doubt are also aware of Gondwana The great supercontinent

The Earths surface does not consist of a motionless crust but rather of large crustal plates which move and jostle against each other. There are seven large plates and many smaller plates (100 to 150 km thick) that drift around the Earths surface, highlighted in the diagram below. Continental drift Continental drift is apparently a result of these crustal plates being dragged along by movement in deeper layers of rock in the mantle. Volcanoes and earthquakes all provide evidence for the Earths wandering continents. The continents actually move as a consequence of volcanic processes in oceanic areas known as mid oceanic ridges where basalt oozes out onto the sea floor, forcing adjacent plates apart. Another mechanism driving the movement of the Earths plates are large convection currents in the Earths mantle.

You are probably also aware that during the last Ice Age the continent of Australia was joined to both the Islands of Papua New Guinea and Tasmania by land, and at the end of the ice age when the seas rose this land connection was severed. As a result the entire centre of the Australian continent became an inland sea. This sea has receded and the inland of Australia is now a desert.

I live in what is called the Perth Hills, or the Darling Ranges, which are definitely not mountain ranges. The highest peak is only just over 1,900 metres high. The Darling Ranges are in fact a fault escarpment whereby the land to the west of the Perth Hills or Darling Ranges sank along a fault line some million years ago. Evidence that the earths surface is not stable.

Australia is considered to be the oldest continent and there is evidence of human occupation from 60,000 years ago. Previously it was thought that humans were only here for 20,000 years, but rock paintings in the north of Western Australia have set the date back to 60,000 years. The American continent is a much younger continent, that is why it is referred to as the New World.


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> There have been claims after claim after claims that the Ark has been discovered, unfortunately all have proven to be incorrect. The image most people post as positive proof has been proven to be a natural rock formation and definitely not the Ark.


Text deleted to save space

Thanks, Eve, for you informative and interesting post.

Of course, you know the fundies won't believe a word of it because it included reference to an earth more than 6,000 years old. This does not validate their beliefs, so they will argue endlessly and provide spurious and ridiculous nonsense provided to them by their preachers as "proof" they are right. Bah.

Strange, isn't it, that they are so passionate in the quest to prove their all-loving and all-forgiving god destroyed almost every living thing on the planet in a fit of pique? Normally they try to deny this god of theirs ever did anything violent or unjust. Curious.


----------



## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> had you paid attention in school, you would have the right answer to all of this unless you were taught by Nuns and Priests. They pushed their own agenda.


Actually many fundamentalists home school their children to avoid coming in contact with, well, the truth!


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> Actually many fundamentalists home school their children to avoid coming in contact with, well, the truth!


Trouble is, many are also now trying to change public school curricula to reflect their BS. Rick Santorum is thinking of running for president and says we MUST return to teaching the bible in public schools. These people are frightening.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> *This message is sent with tongue firmly planted in cheek. So please do not read any further if you are easily offended.*
> 
> Wombat, this is a message that you will understand because you are an Aussie.
> 
> ...


Feel free to release your tongue, Evie--I agree with you 100%. I too can imagine the Fundamentalists' heaven, and I've long since concluded that it's something I want no part of. All of eternity spent with the likes of Joey, KPG, and KC? Yikes.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Text deleted to save space
> 
> Thanks, Eve, for you informative and interesting post.
> 
> ...


Very. It's easy for me to imagine them being pleased at the thought of all the sinners of the day beating on the doors of the ark, begging admittance while the water crept higher and higher. But what about all those millions and millions of innocent animals? Like most KPers they seem to have a soft spot for pets--how can they reconcile their notions of a just and merciful good with images of Fluffy and Fido swimming for their lives? The path over Rainbow Bridge must have become a virtual thoroughfare with bumper-to-bumper pets crossing over, that's for sure.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> who would want to hang on to such an ugly Father who does nothing but punish? Makes no sense to any thinking person, does it.


Unless that gave men the excuse to be abusive then it makes some warped sense.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Text deleted to save space
> 
> Thanks, Eve, for you informative and interesting post.
> 
> ...


Not curious at all. It was the god of the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament) who caused the flood - he was a very strict disciplinarian, not at all like his son. Sonny was a softie, at least for the ones who believe in his pedigree. The rest of us can go to he!!.

Do I need a sarcasm warning?


----------



## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not curious at all. It was the god of the Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament) who caused the flood - he was a very strict disciplinarian, not at all like his son. Sonny was a softie, at least for the ones who believe in his pedigree. The rest of us can go to he!!.
> 
> Do I need a sarcasm warning?


Always need a sarcasm warning, dear Purl. Remember who reads this thread.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This one did NOT say he would not allow a Palestinian state. So according you he did not make that statement since it is not in the Times
> 
> _On Monday, Netanyahu had told Israeli news outlet Maariv that he would not allow a Palestinian state on his watch, as he attempted to rally voters from the right to cast ballots for his Likud party ahead of Tuesdays election._
> 
> This the only one Shirley could have seen or heard. Where did she hear and see it?


What does all this matter Joey? You are knit picking again. I am not obsessed -- nor are the rest of us. I imagine you will still be posting and arguing about this a week, or a month from now. He was elected, and before he was, he did say it . get over it!

Ladies, I think it is time to stop playing into Joey's intense need to get on a subject and carry it on and on and on - to prove something didn't happen when it did. She loves to do this - to argue against or for something that is the opposite to the truth because she loves to try to get our knickers in a knot.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

kristinacavaz said:


> You know what gets me is the militarization of the police. They are all geared up like Robocop. Even the women police wearing all this gear, they look as if to topple over with the weight of all that "stuff". It looks ridiculous. From what I've read on police forums and in politico sites, Israeli IDF is training and "educating" our local police forces. Hence all the "gearing up" I suppose. Why have a military- in fact a *foreign* military at that- be training OUR little town police. Shaking my head.


Would you feel better if a Christian country was doing that? Fact remains that by necessity Israel has the best army in the world.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Read what was in the Times of Israel. I have posted it for you and provided a link to the paper too. Did the Times lie too? You are seriously screwed up joey. Put on your thinking cap and take 10 deep breaths of air before you keel over. Admit it. You got it wrong.


The Times Of Israel is a conservative newsletter. Should be okay for Mrs Somma.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Feel free to release your tongue, Evie--I agree with you 100%. I too can imagine the Fundamentalists' heaven, and I've long since concluded that it's something I want no part of. All of eternity spent with the likes of Joey, KPG, and KC? Yikes.


Don't worry your little brain, Susan, I'm not a Fundamentalist, there is only one Heaven and you've already denied your entry many times over.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?

I will be gone most of the day. Pat has to have his pacemaker checked in Nanaimo and I am going to visit Michaels and hopefully find a yarn shop or two. Talk to you later.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?


Thoughts? You're about nine months behind on the facts and news.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?
> 
> I will be gone most of the day. Pat has to have his pacemaker checked in Nanaimo and I am going to visit Michaels and hopefully find a yarn shop or two. Talk to you later.


He would definitely be a dictator. Wants to do away with health care reform, the IRS and the education department. Really?? He is "out there".


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Always need a sarcasm warning, dear Purl. Remember who reads this thread.


LOL!!

You beat me to it!!

Andy


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?
> 
> I will be gone most of the day. Pat has to have his pacemaker checked in Nanaimo and I am going to visit Michaels and hopefully find a yarn shop or two. Talk to you later.


Good luck, Designer.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't worry your little brain, Susan, I'm not a Fundamentalist, there is only one Heaven and you've already denied your entry many times over.


I'm not concerned in the least, Dear Heart--but I suspect you'll be in for a surprise when you approach the Pearly Gates. All the bowing and scraping in the world isn't going to reverse the verdict.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> He would definitely be a dictator. Wants to do away with health care reform, the IRS and the education department. Really?? He is "out there".


Not true. Cruz said he will repeal every single word of Obamacare and institute health care reform that gives coverage to every citizen, is portable, affordable and removes the govt and bureaucrats from the relationship between patients and their doctors. TRUE health care reform.

He did say imagine abolishing the IRS and having a simple flat tax for every citizen (to be filed on a postcard) and repealing Common Core and supporting better schools and educations for every child regardless of wealth, race, and zip code while allowing every school and child choices.

You don't listen very well or don't recite what he said very well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> What does all this matter Joey? You are knit picking again. I am not obsessed -- nor are the rest of us. I imagine you will still be posting and arguing about this a week, or a month from now. He was elected, and before he was, he did say it . get over it!
> 
> Ladies, I think it is time to stop playing into Joey's intense need to get on a subject and carry it on and on and on - to prove something didn't happen when it did. She loves to do this - to argue against or for something that is the opposite to the truth because she loves to try to get our knickers in a knot.


Designer1234
you got it right, she is just looking for a fight and a continuous one at that, however, she will never get to me. My knickers wont get wrinkled.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not true. Cruz said he will repeal every single word of Obamacare and institute health care reform that gives coverage to every citizen, is portable, affordable and removes the govt and bureaucrats from the relationship between patients and their doctors. TRUE health care reform.
> 
> He did say imagine abolishing the IRS and having a simple flat tax for every citizen (to be filed on a postcard) and repealing Common Core and supporting better schools and educations for every child regardless of wealth, race, gender and zip code while allowing every school and child their choice of school.
> 
> You don't listen very well or don't recite what he said very well.


But you do both to perfection, don't you Toots?

*squawk* *Polly wanna cracker?*


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not true. Cruz said he will repeal every single word of Obamacare and institute health care reform that gives coverage to every citizen, is portable, affordable and removes the govt and bureaucrats from the relationship between patients and their doctors. TRUE health care reform.
> 
> He did say imagine abolishing the IRS and having a simple flat tax for every citizen (to be filed on a postcard) and repealing Common Core and supporting better schools and educations for every child regardless of wealth, race, gender and zip code while allowing every school and child their choice of school.
> 
> You don't listen very well or don't recite what he said very well.


knitpresentgifts
sounds like you and I listened to different speeches. Did Cruz give two at the same time? With folks like him in charge, we would have nothing but more and more laws and dictated by Religion. Not in this country ever. He will have to move elsewhere.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?
> 
> I will be gone most of the day. Pat has to have his pacemaker checked in Nanaimo and I am going to visit Michaels and hopefully find a yarn shop or two. Talk to you later.


Great. I hope he runs. He is a loony loser in either country. Does he have an American parent? Even my evil rep twin says he and his ilk are nuts.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Don't worry your little brain, Susan, I'm not a Fundamentalist, there is only one Heaven and you've already denied your entry many times over.


knitpresentgifts
if you only had a small percentage of her brain, you would do so much better. As to your Heaven, I am assured that
we all wind up in some hole in the ground. If the Heaven story makes you feel better, you have not displayed that. You are nothing but angry and hateful and such behavior according to the good book does not qualify you for a seat in that imaginary place. IF that place existed, you should be dancing happily whereas you are burdened with nastiness.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> you got it right, she is just looking for a fight and a continuous one at that, however, she will never get to me. My knickers wont get wrinkled.


Haha. Do you go commando?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Great. I hope he runs. He is a loony loser in either country. Does he have an American parent? Even my evil rep twin says he and his ilk are nuts.


SQM
he is nuts and keeps proving it every time he opens his mouth. I am most delighted that he is running. How did he manage to graduate from distinguished Institutions? Was he given preference because of his father's country of birth? I know individuals who received such privileges.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thoughts? You're about nine months behind on the facts and news.


 " Cruz gives up Cdn. Citizen and announces he is running for US President with the Republican party"

. I saw that too - so I expect you and Joey to argue about what I saw for at least a couple of weeks.

He has been threatening to run but announced lastnight I believe.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It just came on our news that Cruz has given up his Canadian Citizenship and is Running for President!. I am sure you all know that -Thoughts?
> 
> I will be gone most of the day. Pat has to have his pacemaker checked in Nanaimo and I am going to visit Michaels and hopefully find a yarn shop or two. Talk to you later.


Designer1234
I am sure that your Country is not mourning his exit. Have fun today.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> He would definitely be a dictator. Wants to do away with health care reform, the IRS and the education department. Really?? He is "out there".


GWPIver
w a y o u t but if he wasn't he would not be noticed at all.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> I'm not concerned in the least, Dear Heart--but I suspect you'll be in for a surprise when you approach the Pearly Gates. All the bowing and scraping in the world isn't going to reverse the verdict.


susanmos2000
what a wonderful picture you are painting. Thank you.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> But you do both to perfection, don't you Toots?
> 
> *squawk* *Polly wanna cracker?*


susanmos2000
that is cute.


----------



## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> Feel free to release your tongue, Evie--I agree with you 100%. I too can imagine the Fundamentalists' heaven, and I've long since concluded that it's something I want no part of. All of eternity spent with the likes of Joey, KPG, and KC? Yikes.


I agree too.

What many forget is that the Bible and the Koran were written in a simpler time for very much simpler people, to give them an explanation of how things "started". they needed one, so one was made.

Also, basic rules to live by, the 10 Commandments spring to mind particularly.

Even the possible reason that both Jews and Muslims (amongst several other religions) are not allowed to eat Pork, it probably lies with the fact that without fridges, pork can go off remarkably quickly and meat thats off can kill people....so it eventually got into the religion.....

But some of us understand, in this day of modern science, archeology and the rest, that things really didn't happen quite as written down in Genesis and Exodus.....

Evolution has barely been known for what 150 odd years....? So nobody is to "blame"!

But that also does not mean that the Bible or the Koran is all bad, same as its not all good, there is still a lot of good sage advice even applicable today.

The Koran too, does not promote war and death as many seem to believe, at least in my understanding....in it I have found almost nothing that a practicing Christian would find bad. (Though I admit I am not finished yet!)

I find it personally strange that the Islamic heroes believe that they get given 72 virgins after death, but Islamic women only get their husbands and are to be happy with that!!! How unfair!!

But that is still not a Jihad!!! Simply no equal opportunity!!

BUT YOU HAVE TO KNOW AND UNDERSTAND A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT IS APPLICABLE TO TODAY AND WHAT ISN'T from both books!!!!

I do not believe anything blindly myself, I question everything.....

Some "fundamentalists" for example, believe that the Bible is 100% correct.....sadly, its not, so live with it!!

Some Islamists think the same about the Koran!!! .....sadly, its not, so live with it!!

I expect that to be true of many old books.....

In our enlightened age, we need to aware of what is true for us today, and what needs to be read and understood, but does not form part of our modern world.....

Religious differences have over 1000's of years produced more wars and killed more innocent people than even natural disasters.....let us learn to live together in understanding and harmony with each other.

But if you still want to believe those lovely old books, thats OK as long as you don't kill people trying to make them believe it too!!

I wish everyone here, of all religions (or even none!), simple peace and understanding for all and no further wars....

Peace on earth and good will to all of its creatures.....

I may find out after I am dead that I worshiped the wrong God, but its a bit late then!!! But I just try and do my best as it is.....

regards

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> Sure is. In fact, virtually all of the material generated by the Fundamentalists is fodder for writers and comedians. I particularly like their torturous explanations of how Noah crammed all those animals onto his ark. Lots of fancy mental footwork involved, no question.


Surely its OK for small kids and others "innocent" of modern knowledge? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> So true, Eve. When I was a little girl I questioned things I was being taught at church and asked my mother what should I do. She tapped my head and said God gave you a brain for a reason, to use it. You don't follow along blindly. It was some of the best advice I was ever given. Too bad too many people put on their blinders and refuse to see the truth that surrounds them. I think for some it gives them a sense of security to follow along like good little soldiers and question nothing. To them the world is a scary place. I think they are going to be in for some big surprises down the road. All that judging of others and assuming they did along the way will sadly come back at them quite harshly. As they love to say you reap what you sow and they will reap the whirlwind.


I don't always agree with what you post, but I do agree with the sentiments of this one....

Andy


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Give it up joeysomma. Is it beyond your comprehension that Hebrew can be translated? Strange how many came up with the same translation.
> You are nit picking this to death! I shared plenty of links last night.


The only strange thing is that all your links used the same source and that source had it's own agenda being anti-Netanyahu.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Thoughts? You're about nine months behind on the facts and news.


Not to mention the MSM having their fun with that months ago. I suppose they will just rehash their words of "wisdom" one more time. BORING.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

der_fisherman said:


> Surely its OK for small kids and others "innocent" of modern knowledge? :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:
> 
> Andy


Why not? Admittedly kids usually like the story, and taken as a fairy tale or a fable it's kind of cute...rolling on a big boat in a cozy little family group with a (huge) personal zoo at one's fingertips. What child wouldn't find that appealing?

But that's just it...it's a story for CHILDREN, who generally have no real understanding of suffering and death--also, I suppose, for adults with childish minds (Fundamentalists, in other words) who are similarly handicapped. One only has to watch videos of the 2004 tsunami and the MV Sewol going down to grasp the horror of children (or anyone) drowning en masse. No kind and loving deity would unleash such terror on the world.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Not true. Cruz said he will repeal every single word of Obamacare and institute health care reform that gives coverage to every citizen, is portable, affordable and removes the govt and bureaucrats from the relationship between patients and their doctors. TRUE health care reform.
> 
> He did say imagine abolishing the IRS and having a simple flat tax for every citizen (to be filed on a postcard) and repealing Common Core and supporting better schools and educations for every child regardless of wealth, race, and zip code while allowing every school and child choices.
> 
> You don't listen very well or don't recite what he said very well.


Oh they hear it alright. It just doesn't fit into the left's brainwashed agenda. A better education for every child means the children will start thinking for themselves. Oh horror! That's one of the top No-No's in the Dem/lib playbook.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> he is nuts and keeps proving it every time he opens his mouth. I am most delighted that he is running. How did he manage to graduate from distinguished Institutions? Was he given preference because of his father's country of birth? I know individuals who received such privileges.


How did Obama? What preferences did he receive?


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Betsy Ross said:


> You probably still deny the Shroud of Turin even though it's still failed to be disproved. DENIAL.


Thats probably another of those things the RC Church "made up" to keep people religious.

The link (just one of them!) is here:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_14_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin

*The Shroud of Turin (Turin Shroud), a linen cloth commonly associated with the crucifixion and burial of Jesus Christ, has undergone numerous scientific tests, the most notable of which is radiocarbon dating, in an attempt to determine the relic's authenticity. In 1988, scientists at three separate laboratories dated samples from the Shroud to a range of AD12601390, which coincides with the first appearance of the shroud in France in the 1350s.*

What a surprise!

Follwed by statues that cried "tears of Blood", many identified when Henry VIII gave the RCs their marching orders and their buildings were pulled down!!

The RC Church is still the richest Church in the world, from money from many of the poorest countries, but what do they do to help? Do they send money to build useful things in poor countries, finance places of work?

Of course not!!

They send pedophile priests to attack children!!!

Then many years of covering up of their crimes.

If anyone would like some names and links just ask, or look yourself, there are many on the web....here is a good start!

Talk to a parent who has had a child attacked by these almost legal Pedophiles! They have completely given up on their church forever!!

Search on YouTube using this search argument, many videos:-

"parents of catholic children and pedophile priests"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases

http://theweek.com/articles/466772/10-secrets-vatican-exposed

Many RCs are totally brainwashed by the church to become basically "RCBots" sadly.....Some are here.....we see their posts often....

I feel REALLY sad that a person is so taken over and truly sincerely believes in a church shown daily to be really suspect.....

That church needs to come into the 20th Century, (forget the 21st!) which they still have not achieved!!

I have met modern RCs, who are good people and who understand just what has been going on and are trying to get rid of all the bad apples....I thank God for such people.....

But all religious nuts here, stop preaching to us all until all these appalling people are safely behind bars.....then I MAY listen!! Or long dead!!!

Regards

Andy


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Why not? Admittedly kids usually like the story, and taken as a fairy tale or a fable it's kind of cute...rolling on a big boat in a cozy little family group with a (huge) personal zoo at one's fingertips. What child wouldn't find that appealing?
> 
> But that's just it...it's a story for CHILDREN, who generally have no real understanding of suffering and death--also, I suppose, for adults with childish minds (Fundamentalists, in other words) who are similarly handicapped. One only has to watch videos of the 2004 tsunami and the MV Sewol going down to grasp the horror of children (or anyone) drowning en masse. No kind and loving deity would unleash such terror on the world.


I always hated this story when I was a child. I first heard the story when I started school at the age of 5 years. I asked how Noah and his family could sail past all those little children who were drowning and still be the ones that God had chosen. I asked why Noah's wife was not gathering the little children and babies up and saving them. There was no answer and I think that was when I first began to question even further. I still have not received an answer to my questions 70 years later.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The only strange thing is that all your links used the same source and that source had it's own agenda being anti-Netanyahu.


soloweygirl
All I need is Netanyahu to speak and that is the best source for my dislike for him. Add to that Family and Friends in Israel and Palestine and no interpreters needed for his ill behavior towards people of both nations.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I always hated this story when I was a child. I first heard the story when I started school at the age of 5 years. I asked how Noah and his family could sail past all those little children who were drowning and still be the ones that God had chosen. I asked why Noah's wife was not gathering the little children and babies up and saving them. There was no answer and I think that was when I first began to question even further. I still have not received an answer to my questions 70 years later.


EveMCooke
here we are some of those children with inquisitive minds with relevant questions to which adults had no answer and never will have. That fact enticed us to think further and to question anything that does not make sense. We are no hostages to anyone or anything. Liberated is what we are.
Very sad is that those who believe and are kind, compassionate, caring are getting a bad wrap because of those who misrepresent their Religion.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I always hated this story when I was a child. I first heard the story when I started school at the age of 5 years. I asked how Noah and his family could sail past all those little children who were drowning and still be the ones that God had chosen. I asked why Noah's wife was not gathering the little children and babies up and saving them. There was no answer and I think that was when I first began to question even further. I still have not received an answer to my questions 70 years later.


You were a far more perceptive and compassionate child than I, Evie. I hate to admit it, but I never really thought about the millions of people and billions of animals (if you count all the creepy crawlies that would have perished) when I was small. All I knew was the happy little story as told by a favorite storybook--and that I wanted a Noah's ark play set more than anything.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> Thats probably another of those things the RC Church "made up" to keep people religious.
> 
> The link (just one of them!) is here:-
> 
> ...


der fisherman
The shroud will be kept "alive" for Millenniums. When there is never anything new, something old has to be exhumed. Examine those who are staunch believers and involved in the study of the shroud and you find them to be convinced of its authenticity, listen to those who are neutral and its origin is very questionable. I am on the side of very questionable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> How did Obama? What preferences did he receive?


soloweygirl
grades, excellent grades and that still shows clearly. Eat your Heart out. The very fact that we have a President of color who is at the top of whatever class he is attending, is causing you so much despair. With all of the efforts to keep black folks uneducated for centuries, it is astounding how many black Women and Men have become accomplished professionals. Lots of fine black Doctors and Lawyers in our midst and they have gotten there overstepping all sorts of hurdles and never giving up.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> here we are some of those children with inquisitive minds with relevant questions to which adults had no answer and never will have. That fact enticed us to think further and to question anything that does not make sense. We are no hostages to anyone or anything. Liberated is what we are.
> Very sad is that those who believe and are kind, compassionate, caring are getting a bad wrap because of those who misrepresent their Religion.


Just for fun, I call your attention to the following link, which is what god does when a flood just won't do. Evidently this talk show host gets his inside scoop from some hotline to god and even claims god "had no other choice" to do what he's doing.

What? God forced into a corner? What happened to the "all-powerful" part??

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/03/christian-radio-host-explains-weather-gays-and-hollywood-witchcraft-cause-californias-drought/


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> der fisherman
> The shroud will be kept "alive" for Millenniums. When there is never anything new, something old has to be exhumed. Examine those who are staunch believers and involved in the study of the shroud and you find them to be convinced of its authenticity, listen to those who are neutral and its origin is very questionable. I am on the side of very questionable.


Me too. Its a great looking, well made 14 century forgery....for the many gullible people of the time....who COULD not know better, but at the time it was first shown:-

* It is often mentioned that the first certain historical record dates from 1353 or 1357. However the presence of the Turin Shroud in Lirey, France, is only undoubtedly attested in 1390 when Bishop Pierre d'Arcis wrote a memorandum to Antipope Clement VII, stating that the shroud was a forgery and that the artist had confessed.*

Carbon dating is a well understood science. When three labs come to almost an exact same date.....well! That proves its over a 1000 years later than first imagined....

Also, the quality of the material has not been found in any early middle eastern graves.....

Regards

Andy


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> *This message is sent with tongue firmly planted in cheek. So please do not read any further if you are easily offended.*
> 
> Wombat, this is a message that you will understand because you are an Aussie.
> 
> ...


I'd take hell any day!


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> grades, excellent grades and that still shows clearly. Eat your Heart out. The very fact that we have a President of color who is at the top of whatever class he is attending, is causing you so much despair. With all of the efforts to keep black folks uneducated for centuries, it is astounding how many black Women and Men have become accomplished professionals. Lots of fine black Doctors and Lawyers in our midst and they have gotten there overstepping all sorts of hurdles and never giving up.


Hera, hear!

Andy


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Unless that gave men the excuse to be abusive then it makes some warped sense.


I so see how that can be construed.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh they hear it alright. It just doesn't fit into the left's brainwashed agenda. A better education for every child means the children will start thinking for themselves. Oh horror! That's one of the top No-No's in the Dem/lib playbook.


soloweygirl
Actually our left leaning brains got into action and supported Montessori Schools because too many religious Schools were popping up and children were being "formed" in only certain ways therefore liberally thinking Parents of many Faith' and no Faith took advantage of the Montessori System. The only Schools which have never changed are those with religious affiliation. Dare any child to think out of the box, punishment will be forthcoming. We liberals do not prescribe to military type education, we are looking for the freedom to question and learn about everything. Getting a very liberal type of education is the best rounded and prepares well for Life.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

My kids went to the Montessori School when they first opened, however they were given a new name some time later. and my Grand daughter attended one for Grade I and II in Calgary. Then she transferred to French Immersion and speaks very very fluid french. She is still in French immersion and will remain in a French school until Grade 10 or 11.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops double post


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Oh they hear it alright. It just doesn't fit into the left's brainwashed agenda. A better education for every child means the children will start thinking for themselves. Oh horror! That's one of the top No-No's in the Dem/lib playbook.


You have this one absolutely reversed! The Christian righties are the ones who want their children to fit a mold, learn the 3R's (and nothing else), learn Bible verses, and associate with their ."own kind." In fact, many righties home school their children so they won't be tainted by any unforeseen critical thinking skills. They WANT their children brain-washed.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> My kids went to the Montessori School when they first opened, however they were given a new name some time later. and my Grand daughter attended one for Grade I and II in Calgary. Then she transferred to French Immersion and speaks very very fluid french. She is still in French immersion and will remain in a French school until Grade 10 or 11.


Designer1234
Great School System. Knowing more than one language broadens one's horizon tremendously. All children in our Families are multilingual.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> You have this one absolutely reversed! The Christian righties are the ones who want their children to fit a mold, learn the 3R's (and nothing else), learn Bible verses, and associate with their ."own kind." In fact, many righties home school their children so they won't be tainted by any unforeseen critical thinking skills. They WANT their children brain-washed.


cookiequeen
correct you are. Those are Parents who want their belief to be reinforced by strangers. They fear that their children are being exposed to the real World. Often the children grow up being terribly confused and become angry about having been imprisoned intellectually. It keeps Psychiatrists busy.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer1234
> Great School System. Knowing more than one language broadens one's horizon tremendously. All children in our Families are multilingual.


This only enriches their lives and makes for better understanding of people with diverse backgrounds. Makes the whole world a better place for everyone and promotes mutual respect and concern for everyone.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You have this one absolutely reversed! The Christian righties are the ones who want their children to fit a mold, learn the 3R's (and nothing else), learn Bible verses, and associate with their ."own kind." In fact, many righties home school their children so they won't be tainted by any unforeseen critical thinking skills. They WANT their children brain-washed.


Her post proves your point that the right wants no critical thinking
skills to be part of the education they endorse.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Hello Friends, sent you an Email. Huck


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> This only enriches their lives and makes for better understanding of people with diverse backgrounds. Makes the whole world a better place for everyone and promotes mutual respect and concern for everyone.


Cheeky Blighter
well, I think we see here daily that respect is not something some folks want their children to learn. They strongly reinforce "my way or no way". A Prison existence in my book.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Best example of what you have described is Ben Carson. His mother cleaned the houses of the rich, I believe. He did it himself by working hard.
> 
> 0bama's mother had a college education, Did she think twice about sent 0bama to be raised by her parents, so she could do whatever?


So what's your point? That made President Obama a bad person???


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> You have this one absolutely reversed! The Christian righties are the ones who want their children to fit a mold, learn the 3R's (and nothing else), learn Bible verses, and associate with their ."own kind." In fact, many righties home school their children so they won't be tainted by any unforeseen critical thinking skills. They WANT their children brain-washed.


cookiequeen
even College Students in religious Institutions must obey or be fined. Imagine an adult being fined for not showing up for a political speech. That falls into the Communist arena. Not much liberty at Liberty University, is there!!!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:



> Best example of what you have described is Ben Carson. His mother cleaned the houses of the rich, I believe. He did it himself by working hard.
> 
> 0bama's mother had a college education, Did she think twice about sent 0bama to be raised by her parents, so she could do whatever?


joeysomma
did you intent to make a point? If you did, you missed it. President Obama received excellent care from Family members and it certainly shows. He is a marvelous example of how even under the most difficult circumstances everyone around him cared to get him and his Sister an extraordinary education and they succeeded.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> So what's your point? That made President Obama a bad person???


She ran out of things to insult Obama about and now she's attacking his mother.

Classy.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

der_fisherman said:


> I agree too.
> 
> What many forget is that the Bible and the Koran were written in a simpler time for very much simpler people, to give them an explanation of how things "started". they needed one, so one was made.
> 
> ...


I think your sentiments are truly honorable however, it's my firm belief that our world will never be conflict free due to human nature. While people inhabit this world there will be greed, resentment, jealousy; all of the 7 deadly sins and then some! I submit that religion is the basis of an alarming number of conflicts in this world but the sad fact is human nature
is the genesis.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I think your sentiments are truly honorable however, it's my firm belief that our world will never be conflict free due to human nature. While people inhabit this world there will be greed, resentment, jealousy; all of the 7 deadly sins and then some! I submit that religion is the basis of an alarming number of conflicts in this world but the sad fact is human nature
> is the genesis.


I agree. Religion is just a handy excuse.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Speaking of religion, please take a moment to view this link that informs us of the genesis of Ted Cruz' religious beliefs.

http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

DGreen said:


> She ran out of things to insult Obama about and now she's attacking his mother.
> 
> Classy.


No surprises there IMHO. Since Cruz announced that he's running I've detected a slight change in the poop being shoveled out by the Repugs. They've dropped the BS about Obama being born in Kenya--now the issue is whether the President did or did not renounced his American citizenship at some point (unlike Their Guy Cruz, who dropped the Canadian but kept the American). So if Obama's mother is now being attacked, it stands to reason that they're trying to draw attention to the sterling qualities (in their minds) of Cruz's dear old mummy.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> No surprises there IMHO. Since Cruz announced that he's running I've detected a slight change in the poop being shoveled out by the Repugs. They've dropped the BS about Obama being born in Kenya--now the issue is whether the President did or did not renounced his American citizenship at some point (unlike Their Guy Cruz, who dropped the Canadian but kept the American). So if Obama's mother is now being attacked, it stands to reason that they're trying to draw attention to the sterling qualities (in their minds) of Cruz's dear old mummy.


The renouncing of citizenship is an oldie.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I sure am glad he did!



DGreen said:


> The renouncing of citizenship is an oldie.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Best example of what you have described is Ben Carson. His mother cleaned the houses of the rich, I believe. He did it himself by working hard.
> 
> 0bama's mother had a college education, Did she think twice about sent 0bama to be raised by her parents, so she could do whatever?


I believe that after Catholic schooling in Indonesia, and Indonesian public schooling, he was sent back to Hawaii for an American education.
This is completely contrary to some older Right wing memes about his having attended Islamic terrorist schools!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> I believe that after Catholic schooling in Indonesia, and Indonesian public schooling, he was sent back to Hawaii for an American education.
> This is completely contrary to some older Right wing memes about his having attended Islamic terrorist schools!


They have terror on the brain. But I think he went to an Islamic school, too, in Indonesia, one that was full of kids from non-Muslim families.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> I believe that after Catholic schooling in Indonesia, and Indonesian public schooling, he was sent back to Hawaii for an American education.
> This is completely contrary to some older Right wing memes about his having attended Islamic terrorist schools!


BethP0201
it is the intense and rather varied education President Obama received that bugs the Hxxx out of the Righties. Had he attended an Islamic School, his education would even more rounded that that of any of us. I would see that as a plus.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I sure am glad he did!


Designer1234
Canada should be happy he gave up his Citizenship to your lovely Country.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No surprises there IMHO. Since Cruz announced that he's running I've detected a slight change in the poop being shoveled out by the Repugs. They've dropped the BS about Obama being born in Kenya--now the issue is whether the President did or did not renounced his American citizenship at some point (unlike Their Guy Cruz, who dropped the Canadian but kept the American). So if Obama's mother is now being attacked, it stands to reason that they're trying to draw attention to the sterling qualities (in their minds) of Cruz's dear old mummy.


susanmos2000
as the World turns!


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## RosieC (Feb 14, 2012)

Wow, this thread has created a really hateful, nasty and judgmental environment here. I sometimes wonder if some people just don't have anything else to do in their lives.
It's really disheartening and I feel sorry for some people, but not all. There are so many haters in the world. Sad. Sad.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Last edited 21 hours ago by Marteau
Early life and career of Barack Obama
Watch this page
This article is part of a series on
Barack Obama

Obama spent most of his childhood years in Honolulu, where his mother completed college after his parents divorced. Obama started a close relationship with his maternal grandparents. In 1965, his mother remarried Lolo Soetoro from Indonesia. Two years later, Dunham took Obama with her to Indonesia to reunite him with his stepfather. In 1971, Obama returned to Hawaii to attend Punahou School, from which he graduated in 1979.

As a young adult, Obama was educated at Occidental College, Columbia University, and Harvard Law School. In Chicago, Obama worked at various times as a community organizer, professor (Lecturer and Senior Lecturer) of constitutional law at the University of Chicago Law School, and published his memoir Dreams from My Father before beginning his political career in the late 1990s.

Childhood years
Education summaryEdit

Grade	Dates	School	Location	Type	Degree/Notes
Kindergarten	19661967	Noelani Elementary School	Honolulu, Hawaii	Public	
1st3rd grade 19681970	St. Francis Assisi	Jakarta, Indonesia	Private
Catholic	
4th grade	19701971	State Elementary School Menteng 01	Jakarta, Indonesia	Public	
5th12th grade	19711979	Punahou School	Honolulu, Hawaii	Private	High school diploma, 1979[46]
FreshmanSophomore year	19791981	Occidental College	Los Angeles	Private	Transferred to Columbia
JuniorSenior year	19811983	Columbia University	New York City	Private	B.A., political science major with
international relations focus
1L3L	19881991	Harvard Law School	Cambridge, Massachusetts	Private	J.D., magna cum laude
President, Harvard Law Review


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BethP0201 said:


> Open main menu
> Childhood years
> Education summaryEdit
> 
> ...


Great info, thanks.

The righties will dispute every word of it.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

RosieC said:


> Wow, this thread has created a really hateful, nasty and judgmental environment here. I sometimes wonder if some people just don't have anything else to do in their lives.
> It's really disheartening and I feel sorry for some people, but not all. There are so many haters in the world. Sad. Sad.


Politics are like that in today's world. But you don't say where you stand - left or right? If you want to join the conversation, please do so - but it would be nice if you had something to contribute instead of wagging your finger and being critical, yourself.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Speaking of religion, please take a moment to view this link that informs us of the genesis of Ted Cruz' religious beliefs.
> 
> http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/


DGreen
I wish where to find it now but some time ago I saw Fidel Castro giving some speeches prior to him taking over Cuba and boy does the Cruz Father and Son team sound like him. Camps sends a shiver down my spine but I am glad the Cruz's have no hesitation to reveal themselves.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> I wish where to find it now but some time ago I saw Fidel Castro giving some speeches prior to him taking over Cuba and boy does the Cruz Father and Son team sound like him. Camps sends a shiver down my spine but I am glad the Cruz's have no hesitation to reveal themselves.


The similarities are lost on the extremists because they "know" they are right in all things. Just like religion, their belief in how the "takers" are ruining our economy and that Obama is behaving like a "king." They deny reality on all fronts.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> Last edited 21 hours ago by Marteau
> Early life and career of Barack Obama
> Watch this page
> This article is part of a series on
> ...


I guess I was wrong about an Islamic school in Indonesia. Thank you for the complete coverage.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess I was wrong about an Islamic school in Indonesia. Thank you for the complete coverage.


Sorry for the double, and long post. I had heard that too, about Islamic schools, even the term "madrasa" being thrown around, which I believe is the term some use to connote an Islamic extremist school, although the word apparently just means school!


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Speaking of religion, please take a moment to view this link that informs us of the genesis of Ted Cruz' religious beliefs.
> 
> http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/


That was a truly frightening read. The man is a complete wowser in every sense of the word.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> No surprises there IMHO. Since Cruz announced that he's running I've detected a slight change in the poop being shoveled out by the Repugs. They've dropped the BS about Obama being born in Kenya--now the issue is whether the President did or did not renounced his American citizenship at some point (unlike Their Guy Cruz, who dropped the Canadian but kept the American). So if Obama's mother is now being attacked, it stands to reason that they're trying to draw attention to the sterling qualities (in their minds) of Cruz's dear old mummy.


Does he even have mummy?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> That was a truly frightening read. The man is a complete wowser in every sense of the word.


Do you know what I find just as frightening?

There are A LOT of fundamentalists (you probably know of one or two from KP) who think homosexuals should be executed and would actually support that in the US "if it was the law." Think about that for a minute.

The bible also say to kill the unbeliever, so presumably these same people would support death for people like me - they'd have no problem with it at all.

Cruz Sr. isn't so far out there for a significant number of Americans. The same ones who support the constitution, of course. (sarcasm)


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Strangely it is only until someone in their family comes out as Gay, that some people can understand! 
Others are empathetic without having to know someone personally. How can you not put yourself in the place of someone who is not like you, someone who is discriminated against, someone who has no health care, someone who is working as hard as you are, but only making minimum wage, etc. etc. etc.? 
I will never understand.


DGreen said:


> Do you know what I find just as frightening?
> 
> There are A LOT of fundamentalists (you probably know of one or two from KP) who think homosexuals should be executed and would actually support that in the US "if it was the law." Think about that for a minute.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The retching sound you hear is me.



DGreen said:


> Speaking of religion, please take a moment to view this link that informs us of the genesis of Ted Cruz' religious beliefs.
> 
> http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> I sure am glad he did!


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder how this Cuban American family influence will affect Cruz' ability to work with Cuba diplomatically. Anyone else 'curious?'



Huckleberry said:


> DGreen
> I wish where to find it now but some time ago I saw Fidel Castro giving some speeches prior to him taking over Cuba and boy does the Cruz Father and Son team sound like him. Camps sends a shiver down my spine but I am glad the Cruz's have no hesitation to reveal themselves.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I suspect he was hatched.



Wombatnomore said:


> Does he even have mummy?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Empathy or lack thereof.



BethP0201 said:


> Strangely it is only until someone in their family comes out as Gay, that some people can understand!
> Others are empathetic without having to know someone personally. How can you not put yourself in the place of someone who is not like you, someone who is discriminated against, someone who has no health care, someone who is working as hard as you are, but only making minimum wage, etc. etc. etc.?
> I will never understand.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

DGreen said:


> Do you know what I find just as frightening?
> 
> There are A LOT of fundamentalists (you probably know of one or two from KP) who think homosexuals should be executed and would actually support that in the US "if it was the law." Think about that for a minute.
> 
> ...


Connotations of another belief system which has dominated news services the world over, particularly since June last year. But of course, that kind of thinking is pandemic in one form or another, it just takes a certain kind of hatred and disdain for fellow species for it to fulminate into actuality.

Next?


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I suspect he was hatched.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They have terror on the brain. But I think he went to an Islamic school, too, in Indonesia, one that was full of kids from non-Muslim families.


I had those shoes but not that dad.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess I was wrong about an Islamic school in Indonesia. Thank you for the complete coverage.


I'm sure the righties could find something wrong with St. Francis school too. :-D


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> That was a truly frightening read. The man is a complete wowser in every sense of the word.


Wowser is right! Thanks for the link.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Wowser is right! Thanks for the link.


Putting athiests in camps?? Crazy wowzer!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm going to hide under the porch for awhile until I feel better.



Wombatnomore said:


> Connotations of another belief system which has dominated news services the world over, particularly since June last year. But of course, that kind of thinking is pandemic in one form or another, it just takes a certain kind of hatred and disdain for fellow species for it to fulminate into actuality.
> 
> Next?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> I'm sure the righties could find something wrong with St. Francis school too. :-D


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Full disclosure: Ted Cruz' father did NOT say atheists belong in camps and should be shot. I just checked SNOPES and the article I read was a hybrid of fact and fiction.

Whew. So glad to know that. Cruz being a fundie is bad enough.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm going to hide under the porch for awhile until I feel better.


You'll probably meet your NSA watcher down there.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A picture of Obamas school registration at the Santo Fransiskus Assisis school in Jakarta, Indonesia. The first line notes his name, the second line shows where he was born, the third line notes his citizenship, and the sixth line shows religious affiliation. (


How do we know that's not a fake, like his birth certificate? And why should we believe that those words on the left mean what you say they mean? After all, you wouldn't accept translations of what Netanyahu said.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> Sorry for the double, and long post. I had heard that too, about Islamic schools, even the term "madrasa" being thrown around, which I believe is the term some use to connote an Islamic extremist school, although the word apparently just means school!


So he spent one year of his life and his education in Jakarta - and suddenly (not so suddenly) that makes him ineligible to be POTUs? Come on!!! Our kids spent 2 years of school in NewZealand- and the time before and after in schools in Canada -- that means they are not Canadians? Talk about looking for ways to knit pick. I wonder where he suddenly became a terrorist -from spending one year in grade school in the year he was in indonesia?????

If you don't have something serious to accuse him of you make stuff up. Remember - he has been President for one term and still has some time as President for the second term. What possibly do you gain by rehashing everything from the day he was born?? Who will you obsess about when he is no longer President -- hmm.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> A picture of Obamas school registration at the Santo Fransiskus Assisis school in Jakarta, Indonesia. The first line notes his name, the second line shows where he was born, the third line notes his citizenship, and the sixth line shows religious affiliation. (


So?


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> So he spent one year of his life and his education in Jakarta - and suddenly (not so suddenly) that makes him ineligible to be POTUs? Come on!!! Our kids spent 2 years of school in NewZealand- and the time before and after in schools in Canada -- that means they are not Canadians? Talk about looking for ways to knit pick. I wonder where he suddenly became a terrorist - in the year he was in indonesia?????
> 
> If you don't have something serious to accuse him of you make stuff up. Remember - he has been President for one term and still has some time as President for the second term. What possibly do you gain by rehashing everything from the day he was born??


Remember, the school registration form dates from when he was just entering school. Like at 5 or 6 years old. C'mon, people. Get a life.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Remember, the school registration form dates from when he was just entering school. Like at 5 or 6 years old. C'mon, people. Get a life.


right!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Remember, the school registration form dates from when he was just entering school. Like at 5 or 6 years old. C'mon, people. Get a life.


right!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

DGreen said:


> Full disclosure: Ted Cruz' father did NOT say atheists belong in camps and should be shot. I just checked SNOPES and the article I read was a hybrid of fact and fiction.
> 
> Whew. So glad to know that. Cruz being a fundie is bad enough.


Phew! Thanks for clearing that up, D! I was truly frightened for a little bit there.


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## DGreen (Nov 1, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Phew! Thanks for clearing that up, D! I was truly frightened for a little bit there.


Me, too. I could imagine the mob with pitchforks in my yard.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Speaking of religion, please take a moment to view this link that informs us of the genesis of Ted Cruz' religious beliefs.
> 
> http://www.newslo.com/ted-cruzs-father-suggests-placing-atheists-in-camps/


OMG, OMG!!!!

Unbelievable.....it sounds like Germany under Hitler.....am I wrong to even say that or think that?

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

DGreen said:


> Politics are like that in today's world. But you don't say where you stand - left or right? If you want to join the conversation, please do so - but it would be nice if you had something to contribute instead of wagging your finger and being critical, yourself.


Don't forget the "Floating Voter" that changes their mind at each they have to vote.....those are the ones that the politicians try and impress as they basically decide the election.....the "Dyed in the wool" left and right never change.....

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I guess I was wrong about an Islamic school in Indonesia. Thank you for the complete coverage.


Don't blame yourself, there is so much "misinformation" out there, its hard to pick out the truth for all of us. A few days ago I wrongly believed someone here that was telling me that he was a Muslim!!!

I was simply pleased that the USA was so broadminded!!

I saw it as positive.

But I was wrong, I had believed the wrong person, easily done!!

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> A picture of Obamas school registration at the Santo Fransiskus Assisis school in Jakarta, Indonesia. The first line notes his name, the second line shows where he was born, the third line notes his citizenship, and the sixth line shows religious affiliation. (


That appears to be the wrong first and last name. The photo is very unclear.

His half sister (same father different mother) has the name "Maya Soetoro Ng".

Her Mother had the name Soetoro. Barack has the same name as his father.....not her Mother.....

Why does he have the Christian (NOTE CHRISTIAN!!) name "Barry"?

Even if true (which is not 100% proven to my mind), the religion you have as a child is a result of your family, not necessarily what you eventually find is right for you.

Maybe it was not a good idea to declare yourself Christian in a Muslim country the? Its really no better today!!

Being born black or white or somewhere in between is also a factor of your parents and family, but not quite so easily changed!!!

As a child, you have no choice in many things.....

Andy


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

der_fisherman said:


> That appears to be the wrong first and last name. The photo is very unclear.
> 
> His half sister (same father different mother) has the name "Maya Soetoro Ng".
> 
> ...


Andy, I believe Maya is his half sister, but they have the same Mother, not father.


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> So he spent one year of his life and his education in Jakarta - and suddenly (not so suddenly) that makes him ineligible to be POTUs? Come on!!! Our kids spent 2 years of school in NewZealand- and the time before and after in schools in Canada -- that means they are not Canadians? Talk about looking for ways to knit pick. I wonder where he suddenly became a terrorist -from spending one year in grade school in the year he was in indonesia?????
> 
> If you don't have something serious to accuse him of you make stuff up. Remember - he has been President for one term and still has some time as President for the second term. What possibly do you gain by rehashing everything from the day he was born?? Who will you obsess about when he is no longer President -- hmm.


Hi Designer, you have me pegged wrong, believe me!
I was responding to a post, which was a response to my posting of the Wikipedia article about his complete education. Wikipedia showed that he had attended a Catholic School for a few years, and public schools in Indonesia. Others had called them Islamic schools, or terrorist schools, and I was attempting to set the record straight. 
But thanks for sticking up for him!!! 😉


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> Hi Designer, you have me pegged wrong, believe me!
> I was responding to a post, which was a response to my posting of the Wikipedia article about his complete education. Wikipedia showed that he had attended a Catholic School for a few years, and public schools in Indonesia. Others had called them Islamic schools, or terrorist schools, and I was attempting to set the record straight.
> But thanks for sticking up for him!!! 😉


Sorry Beth - I painted you with the wrong brush. We are so used to posts which try to make him look bad but I don't think because he went to school as a 4 or 5year old turned him into a future muslim, nor that he ever became a muslim. He has been a Christian not a muslim but they always try to say differently.
I know you are not a Republican from your other posts.

As a Canadian I usually am not too interested in the people who represent both sides . The Presidential election is a different matter - I am extremely interested in who runs for President on both sides, but at the same time I dread the next 2 or 3 years as it will get worse. Anyway it is nice to meet you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hi Shirley!


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> Sorry Beth - I painted you with the wrong brush. We are so used to idiotic statements and I didn't check your avatar.
> 
> I know you are not a Republican from your other posts.
> 
> I get so sick of them lying, putting words in his mouth,stating he is something opposite to who he is. I am not an American and don't get involved with the individuals on either side as I don't know them. The Presidential election is a different matter - I am extremely interested in who runs on both sides but at the same time I dread the next 2 or 3 years as it will get worse. Anyway it is nice to meet you.


Likewise!! I love Canada, spent my honeymoon there eons ago, and have been there a few times since then! Americans don't know enough about your country.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hi Shirley!


Hi Bratty - how are you doing.? Just came on line a little while ago. Had a busy day. I think I am going to stick around LOLL for awhile. Don't need the frustration today and tomorrow-- doctors apptnments etc. that is enough ,

Take care friend.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BethP0201 said:


> Likewise!! I love Canada, spent my honeymoon there eons ago, and have been there a few times since then! Americans don't know enough about your country.


There is a new thread posted today about Vancouver Island which is where we live now. Such a lovely place. It is in chit chat, lots of pictures and information. Worth a look.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> How do we know that's not a fake, like his birth certificate? And why should we believe that those words on the left mean what you say they mean? After all, you wouldn't accept translations of what Netanyahu said.


Personally I hope the document IS authentic--at least the birthers will have to drop all that "born in Kenya/fake birth certificate" jazz. As for the rest on the info on the certificate, it's nonsense--no parent can drop a child's American citizenship on his or her behalf, and I don't give a flying fig whether Obama is now, or has ever been a practicing Muslim. Maybe I'm naive, but I find it astounding that some people are perfectly fine with discriminating against their fellow Americans on the basis of religion. Good gosh, people--would you dare say these same things about Jews/Catholics/Buddhists/Hindus?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Hi Bratty - how are you doing.? Just came on line a little while ago. Had a busy day. I think I am going to stick around LOLL for awhile. Don't need the frustration today and tomorrow-- doctors apptnments etc. that is enough ,
> 
> Take care friend.


Hope all's going well, Designer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Someone is trying to decide whether to move to Vancouver. hugs



Designer1234 said:


> There is a new thread posted today about Vancouver Island which is where we live now. Such a lovely place. It is in chit chat, lots of pictures and information. Worth a look.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Personally I hope the document IS authentic--at least the birthers will have to drop all that "born in Kenya/fake birth certificate" jazz. As for the rest on the info on the certificate, it's nonsense--no parent can drop a child's American citizenship on his or her behalf, and I don't give a flying fig whether Obama is now, or has ever been a practicing Muslim. Maybe I'm naive, but I find it astounding that some people are perfectly fine with discriminating against their fellow Americans on the basis of religion. Good gosh, people--would you dare say these same things about Jews/Catholics/Buddhists/Hindus?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?:


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

BethP0201 said:


> Andy, I believe Maya is his half sister, but they have the same Mother, not father.


Thanks for the correction.

But it still does not explain why he had that Surname.....any ideas?

His "REAL" Father's is also "Barack Obama Senior!!"

Something is not quite right here and I haven't a clue what it is, unless (as I mentioned before) it was not "politically" good to have such a name in Indonesia....but I am only guessing before someone jumps on me.

I REALLY DON'T KNOW!

Even after reading through this whole website, which I am willing to believe far more readily than most of the claims I read here!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_of_Barack_Obama

Its actually interesting reading, but does not explain why Barack Obama would have had a name change, with a name that does not reflect his ancestry.....no mention whatsoever.....

Regards

Andy


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

susanmos2000 said:


> Maybe I'm naive, but I find it astounding that some people are perfectly fine with discriminating against their fellow Americans on the basis of religion. Good gosh, people--would you dare say these same things about Jews/Catholics/Buddhists/Hindus?


(Good post, thanks, of which I am only quoting a small important part!)

Many do and not just in the USA......don't blame them, it came via the immigrants from all over....

Discrimination due to colour and/or religion is one of the single biggest problems this world had, and still has....

It won't be fixed in my lifetime....

Andy


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> There is a new thread posted today about Vancouver Island which is where we live now. Such a lovely place. It is in chit chat, lots of pictures and information. Worth a look.


It is beautiful there, I was there twice, on the way to Alaska, and a trip on the Rocky Mountaineer!


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

der_fisherman said:


> Thanks for the correction.
> 
> But it still does not explain why he had that Surname.....any ideas?
> 
> ...


I'm assuming because of the fact that the application is written in Indonesian, that the school application was filled out by his stepfather, who used his own last name and Barack's nickname of Barry. It would be interesting to find out why he did that! Soetero is the stepfather's last name. And his sister's Last name of Ng, is her married name.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BethP0201 said:


> I'm assuming because of the fact that the application is written in Indonesian, that the school application was filled out by his stepfather, who used his own last name and Barack's nickname of Barry. It would be interesting to find out why he did that! Soetero is the stepfather's last name. And his sister's Last name of Ng, is her married name.


BethP0201
I think it is easy to figure out why. It makes the child's life much easier. Is being done here all the time.


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## der_fisherman (Jul 26, 2014)

BethP0201 said:


> I'm assuming because of the fact that the application is written in Indonesian, that the school application was filled out by his stepfather, who used his own last name and Barack's nickname of Barry. It would be interesting to find out why he did that! Soetero is the stepfather's last name. And his sister's Last name of Ng, is her married name.


You may be right, but there is no proof - yet!!

Andy


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## BethP0201 (Dec 5, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> BethP0201
> I think it is easy to figure out why. It makes the child's life much easier. Is being done here all the time.


I'll bet you are correct!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> BethP0201
> I think it is easy to figure out why. It makes the child's life much easier. Is being done here all the time.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Many students just want to be the same as everyone else.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

No out rage about the state Patrol man killed in line of duty.

Where is the sympathy for his wife and two children he left behind.
Don't see any of that happening. He was following the law. That does not count. You know he is one of those loose canyon's . That is wrong to do his duty.


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## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> No out rage about the state Patrol man killed in line of duty.
> 
> Where is the sympathy for his wife and two children he left behind.
> Don't see any of that happening. He was following the law. That does not count. You know he is one of those loose canyon's . That is wrong to do his duty.


There was outrage - check the Internet.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> No out rage about the state Patrol man killed in line of duty.
> 
> Where is the sympathy for his wife and two children he left behind.
> Don't see any of that happening. He was following the law. That does not count. You know he is one of those loose canyon's . That is wrong to do his duty.


theyarnlady
try to find your way back, obviously you are lost.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just try another direction....



Huckleberry said:


> theyarnlady
> try to find your way back, obviously you are lost.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just try another direction....


And be careful you don't fall into one of those loose canyons.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And be careful you don't fall into one of those loose canyons.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------

