# Dyeing basic Question = Non-Sulfur Dyes?



## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

I do not know much of anything about dyeing yarns, so pardon my ignorance. What I have researched and viewed about the chemicals and formulas, etc., well, they bring me to my question(s):

QUESTION: 
Are there any dying techniques & forumlas that do NOT involve "SULFUR" as a fixative, etc?

I would like to look into dyeing further, but this was the first (unfortunate) hurdle I ran across. Since I am highly sensitive to and extremely allergic to ANY Sulfur/Sulfi/Sulfa in any of its forms (even the ones that the Dr's & Pharmacists typically scoff at as unlikely to cause reactions), for me are big No-No's based on unfortunate personal experience, as they can cause me massive reactions (I'm talking blisters from passing contact)

I'm hoping that with the knowledge level of this group, that there is an answer out there that I simply haven't run across & maybe some good news that a technique/forumla blend exist which I can try that doesn't involve Sulfur...???...,*crossing fingers*.....I'm in No RUSH this is just a long term goal of mine, as I have to develop my crochet & knitting craft levels first...

Thanks in advance for any insight you can offer me!


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## desireeross (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm not sure I can help you but Paula Birch has so much information on her website, I'd suggest you read up on what she says. A lot is quite technical

http://www.pburch.net/dyeing.shtml

http://www.pburch.net/dyeing/aboutdyes.shtml


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Thanks! & I've been to her site before, definitely a wealth of information, and from what I read (sans the kool-aid) sulfur was firmly entrenched in the processes.

Thanks for the feedback/info!


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## Janallyn (Feb 16, 2016)

You could try dharma trading company. They have wonderful customer service. They even answer their phone, lol. I use their acid dyes myself.

Jan


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## dtjacobson (Mar 25, 2012)

Sulfur is not used as a fixative in any "domestic" (i.e., in the home) dye process, whether the fiber/yarn/textile being dyed is protein-based or plant-based. In fact, the only situation that sulfur (in the form of sulfuric acid) is used in a dye process is in making Saxon Blue from indigo: it's a dangerous process, so most indie dyers don't mess with it.

If you want to dye protein-based fibers or yarns in a completely non-toxic environment, you can use food coloring and vinegar, just like dyeing Easter eggs.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

If you are dying animal fiber you can use Kool-Aid and it uses vinegar to set it. No sulfur involved. As for bast fiber (from vegetation) I would contact any dye maker and tell them your problem and asked them if sulfur is in there dye. Best of luck.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

I have not read all of her site. Would you be able to direct me to what dye has sulfur in it. I have used dyes and must have at least two dozen books on dying and have never come across sulfur used in the dyes and that goes for natural dyes. Thanks.


CuriouslyCrocheted said:


> Thanks! & I've been to her site before, definitely a wealth of information, and from what I read (sans the kool-aid) sulfur was firmly entrenched in the processes.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback/info!


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## Conchalea (Dec 30, 2013)

I've dyed cotton fiber for years with high school students, and since retirement I've dyed cotton & silk fibers. Recently I added wool yarn to my list & I've never used any sulfur in any of the processes. For cotton the mordant (pre-soak) was sodium carbonate (soda ash) & for silk & wool it's been vinegar or citric acid. Besides the sulfuric acid in the indigo example, perhaps sulfur is used in commercial dye processes, but I'm unaware of any. Perhaps some dyes have sulfur in them? Short of contacting a company such as Dharma, as suggested earlier, I don't know how you'd learn about this.


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## Goodshepfarm (Jul 20, 2014)

Could you use Wilton's Food coloring as your dye with white vinegar?


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

REPLY TO GOODSHEPFARMS:
GREAT IDEA, Not sure if the food dyes would stand the test of time & washing, but a FABULOUS route of inquiry for me, THANKS!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Yup!


Goodshepfarm said:


> Could you use Wilton's Food coloring as your dye with white vinegar?


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## maggies mum (Jan 20, 2013)

hi there,I dye using food colouring all the time and fix it with white vinegar,non toxic and cheap.


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

THANK YOU! to Those who have earnestly attempted to offer your kind insight, experience, and suggestions. I appreciate you all taking the time.

For those who seem to imply I'm off my rocker for believeing that "SULFUR" is an active ingredient in the dyeing process:

1) I began by stating that I am NOT ANYTHING NEAR AN EXPERT NOR EVEN A HOBBYIST when it comes to "DYEING", and that's why I earnestly sought guidance from those I viewed as more experienced, and whom I thought would be open and welcoming to advising me. I'm not so big on the "prove it" method of assistance.

2) While I appreciate your vast knowledge and experience related to the dyeing process, as someone who is highly allegeric to an ingredient in seemingly everything, I am used to checking every single item of food, every cosmetic, every itsy-bitsy annoying ingredient in EVERY--Thing that I consume or use from food to cosmetics to shampoo, hairspray, perm solutions to body wash, soap, bread, pasta, soup, dried fruit, cookies, frozen foods, EVERY food if not in its raw form, detergient, eye drops, every medication written by my Dr or dolled out by a Pharmacy, (and Yes!, I question them & double checking them even though BOTH supposedly have allergy alert flags on file), because yes, on multiple occasions (every year at least once) they (dr or pharmacy or both) have dispensed medications capable of sending me into anaphylactic shock...(and even the lifesaving Epi-pen is capable of it as it contains sulfa)..but, that is just my "daily" life for me, so I am in the habit (out of learned necessity) to LOOK, ASK, RESEARCH, otherwise, I can end up with a reaction from itching to hives to blisters (least fun when in your mouth!), to worse!

Since you are in the habit or hobby of using dyes and chemicals and acids, etc. I would HOPE (however, I believe it currently doubtful after some comments), that you have researched enough about the items you use to STOP & READ the SAFETY DATA SHEETS (SDS) FOR THE PRODUCTS YOU ARE USING!! and I say that with heartfelt concern, because all of those warnings about fumes, etc. and what you should and NEED to know in advance of anything unfortunate occuring (I mean a lot of that stuff out there is TOXIC if not handled properly or in well ventilated areas and accidents spills, splashes, etc. do happen! So, Please DO READ UP ON THE SDS FOR STUFF YOU ARE USING!) 

I only stuck my proverbial toe in the water (aka I watched a few dye process videos, and the commenter was knowledgable enough to MENTION THE ROTTEN EGG SMELL off hand in discussing the smell of the FUMES, that I picked up on it and researched further (rotten egg smell is an alarm bells blaring sign of sulfur), which lead me to read the PRODUCT DATA SHEETS or SAFETY DATA SHEETS "SDS" (the equivalent of an "ingredients" list for chemical products), which EVERY Dye Manufacturer makes available to the public as required by law, because they (the dyes) are considered hazardous materials (if what they are using ARE/IS Hazardous materials.)

JUST Looking through the Dharma Trading Website (which is what I did previously, I checked Dharma's site & read some of Paula Birch's site)

** FOR EXAMPLE, (from Dharma) IF YOU USE: 

1. 
(SYN) SYNTHRAPOL 
then you are using "SULPHONATE", that "SULPH" is "SULPHATE" aka "SULFUR" in one of its many forms.

SULPHONATE (verb)=convert (a compound) into a sulfonate, typically by reaction with sulfuric acid.

(OR)

(JVS) VINYL SULPON LIQUID REACTIVE DYE CONCENTRATE

****** OKAY SO ABOUT HERE THISS TIME, in going through EACH data sheet, I ran across the JVS above, and as its data sheet does not list out the EXACT chemical compounds (Yes, unfortunately, I am QUITE used to reading those:Iron Sulfide, Calcium Sulfate, Laural Sulfate, etc), so I decided to call the listed Manufacturer (Ruppert, Gibon & Spider) Company's Non-Emergency number on the SAFETY DATASHEET, where I went from Customer Service to Alex (who fields technical questions). I explained to him why I was calling (lack of chemical compounds listed & my "sulf", sulfi, sulfa, sulfo, etc allergy.)

Initially, he suggested some other types of dyeing process or chemicals (acid dyes, poly dyes, etc); however, after placing me on hold for a brief few minutes, he came back and stated that he was now much better informed and then we discussed the fact that:

================
ALL DYES WILL PROBABLY USE "SULF" In some FORM (be they acid, poly, etc.) as the SULPHA BONDS with the DYES, --insert dye chemical reaction speak (chemically they use a sulphate reaction or an ionic reaction and even the ionic reaction uses sulphate somewhere in the process) -- which makes them so popular in the process..etc.etc. Point being, that there MIGHT be ONE OR TWO COLORS THAT I COULD USE, but it would be so LIMITED, that it would be POINTLESS for a HOBBY or Practicality to color yarns regardless of type (wool/cotton/acrylic/synthetics, etc.) 

So, I am BACK to where I began, and what I initially stated (but, with "proof" for those who question that sulfa/sulfi/sulfo, etc, is used in the dyeing process):

Q: IS THERE ANY DYEING PROCESS THAT DOES NOT INCLUDE SULFUR? 
At this point, I guess the answer until someone more knowledgable comes along and can hopefully tell me otherwise, the answer is, No.

Thanks bunches, Regardless..&...I wish everyone the best & most beautiful colored yarns...I look forward to seeing & buying them...and I will continue to hope that there's a way that I too can one day dye them..


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

REPLY TO MAGGIESMUM:
Thanks! & Good to know!, I'm going to have to check this out!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Thanks Sockyarn!
Will check it out! 

Luv the Name!..*lol*, I have a whole Pinterest board made up of just sockyarns...Thanks again!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Thank you for being so informative. I read all the responses and did not fined any that thought you were a "wacko". Many people do want to know more and did ask for more info. I think you may have mistook concern for doubt. I have many allergies and understand some of what you go through. I do not think all is lost here. Have you researched food dyes along with your other research? I also can not have sulfur in food as it gives me cold like sores in my vagina (Oh what fun). I have never experienced this problem with food coloring. Also have you looked into natural dyes? You are very well informed. Have you thought of working up a blog on this subject so others can be as well informed. Have the best day that you can have.


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## lovelandjanice (Aug 8, 2012)

I just dyed 5 skeins of yarn using kool aide and food coloring. The only thing I added besides water was vinegar. This began as an exercise of doing snow dyeing. We have plenty of snow here. I wasn't completely pleased with the kool aide snow dyeing process although it was fun and a great project for children. I used the drippings to give a more consistent color. No problem as I had only used one color. Next I tried my old method of dyeing with kool Aide with the expected results. 
My last experiment was dyeing yarn with liquid food coloring (was going to try Wilton Paste, but couldn't fine mine) Added vinegar to the dye bath and dyed 3 skeins of yarn with great results.
When my grands were little I had them kool aide dye their own sock yarn, then I knit them each their own socks. Worked great and no toxic chemicals to deal with.
Good lock.
Janice


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

LOVELANDJANICE:

You (thankfully) aren't the only one to suggest I check those routes: food coloring & kool aid, and I am
Pleased as Punch that I had not tried either as yet, so BOTH (WHOOHOO!) are on my To Do List, Thanks to you and others here!

I've bought Winton food Dyes before so..*smack myself in the forehead*..No clue why that didn't sink in past the eyeballs..*shrugs* *smiles*

I'd LOVE to see any yarn pics you may be willing to share of your own results. 

Qo you/Can you get those Vibrant bright colors (solid strong/bold)? Or is it more of a tie-dye gradient (color to fade the further from source)
Q: Do they bleed?
Q: So just add X amount of vinegar and the color sets?

Thanks again!


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

I am also a newbie, so I don't know the answer, but I recently heard of Greener Shades Dye which is ". . . a non-hazardous, non-chrome, low impact, heavy metal-free acid dye for use on silk, wool, nylon, or any animal fiber."
http://greenershades.stillrivermill.com

Might be worth checking with them.

Good luck.


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## Goodshepfarm (Jul 20, 2014)

CuriouslyCrocheted said:


> REPLY TO GOODSHEPFARMS:
> GREAT IDEA, Not sure if the food dyes would stand the test of time & washing, but a FABULOUS route of inquiry for me, THANKS!


Wilton's dyes fiber much more steadfast than KoolAid which will fade with time. The colors are vibrant, I just dyed a hot pink! A few months ago I posted in this section about Breaking Wilton's Black, or look up that video on you tube. It was a fun project. Good luck.


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

RE:Sockyarn

Thanks for being so positive.
I do not view myself as knowledgeable, but Thanks.

No I haven't tried 'natural' dyes (nor any as yet), and I do intend to look into the food dyes as they sound promising...Not sure what 'natural dyes' consist of, I jokingly told Alex (the dying tech guy) today that from the sound of it, I may just have to go the route of using a pot of boiling water with nut shells tossed in for coloring! Hey, whatever works! *smiles*

Thanks for your input & insight!


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Google Kool-Aid dyes. Ton of info. Yes you can get bold colors if you use enough Kool-Aid. I have not take pictures of the sweater coat I did. Get off my dead **** and get it done and I will show you. I used strawberry and black cherry. Came out great and all dye was exhausted. Dose not run and only white vinegar is needed to set it. I want to try the Wiltons' as you can do spotted effects and painted dye. Look up that one on Youtube under food coloring dye. Some great stuff to try.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Thanks for that site. I am also interested.


amoamarone said:


> I am also a newbie, so I don't know the answer, but I recently heard of Greener Shades Dye which is ". . . a non-hazardous, non-chrome, low impact, heavy metal-free acid dye for use on silk, wool, nylon, or any animal fiber."
> http://greenershades.stillrivermill.com
> 
> Might be worth checking with them.
> ...


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

I have had no problems with fading on the sweater that I made from wool that I dyed with Kool-Aid. I have had it for almost ten years.


Goodshepfarm said:


> Wilton's dyes fiber much more steadfast than KoolAid which will fade with time. The colors are vibrant, I just dyed a hot pink! A few months ago I posted in this section about Breaking Wilton's Black, or look up that video on you tube. It was a fun project. Good luck.


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## Janallyn (Feb 16, 2016)

Good luck, stay safe, I've worked with dyes for 40 years, calm down


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Natural dye are just what they mean. That is how people dyed fiber before the chemicals came along in the 19th century. Plants, bugs, nut shells, roots, berries, earth, etc...I loved doing it as you just never quite knew what you were going to get as you had no idea in what soil the plant was grown or time of year collected or was it fresh or dried. so many variables. So much fun. Right today you can dye something if you have Turmeric or brown onion skins in your home and some clean wool.


CuriouslyCrocheted said:


> RE:Sockyarn
> 
> Thanks for being so positive.
> I do not view myself as knowledgeable, but Thanks.
> ...


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

sockyarn said:


> Natural dye are just what they mean. That is how people dyed fiber before the chemicals came along in the 19th century. Plants, bugs, nut shells, roots, berries, earth, etc...I loved doing it as you just never quite knew what you were going to get as you had no idea in what soil the plant was grown or time of year collected or was it fresh or dried. so many variables. So much fun. Right today you can dye something if you have Turmeric or brown onion skins in your home and some clean wool.


Here is what I got with black walnuts.


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## sockyarn (Jan 26, 2011)

Those are very pretty. You can get a darker color then that. I think you use iron to darken the color, but have not done this in some time so would have to look up the info. If you can get the black walnuts when they are in their green husks you can use the green husks and I know it will make a dark color as I did not know you were suppose to wear gloves and I had dark brown hands for quite some time after collecting them.


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## amoamarone (Feb 21, 2015)

sockyarn said:


> Those are very pretty. You can get a darker color then that. I think you use iron to darken the color, but have not done this in some time so would have to look up the info. If you can get the black walnuts when they are in their green husks you can use the green husks and I know it will make a dark color as I did not know you were suppose to wear gloves and I had dark brown hands for quite some time after collecting them.


I used walnuts that had green or black husks and were a bit goopy. I didn't know about adding iron. I have plenty of brown roving! Fortunately, I knew to wear gloves!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Goodshepfarm said:


> Wilton's dyes .


Cool to know, and Thank you again!  I'll definitely look it up & check them out..(very excited)...Thanks & Cheers!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

amoamarone said:


> I am also a newbie, ....animal fiber."
> http://greenershades.stillrivermill.com
> Might be worth checking with them.
> Good luck.


No clue how I missed some posts & saw others, but I wanted to stop & express my Thanks for your input too! Much appreciated! 

{Edited for typo}


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Janallyn said:


> You could try dharma ...Jan


I think I missed saying, "Thank you", to you earlier, so "Thank you!", I do appreciate your tip/input & of course, I ended up calling in the end (the Manufacturer, but basically the same as it was due to the SDS's on Dharma's site)...anyhow, I juat wanted to make sure I said, "Thanks!"...


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

dtjacobson said:


> Sulfur is not used as a fixative ... food coloring and vinegar, just like dyeing Easter eggs.


Thanks for taking the time to reply and offer your input, I do appreciate the effort on your part, so Thank you! I apologize for missing out on expressing my Thanks to you earlier, somehow between writing/posting my novel long reply and a rough few days, I left my manners at the door, so I just wish to say, "Thanks!" for your comment/feedback & having taken the time. I appreciate it.


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## Spinningmary (Feb 18, 2014)

Have you considered using natural dyes? There are some plants, eg walnuts, onion skin, apple which do not even need a mordant. Most commonly used mordant is alum, vinegar also has its uses. Great way to use peelings and pits!
I believe there are Eco Dyes available in America which give good colours and only require white vinegar.


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## Conchalea (Dec 30, 2013)

After reading about your call to Dharma, which I found interesting, I did want to say that Synthrapol is a wash (detergent) that I've used to wash my cotton tees after dyeing. It's not actually a dye itself. I haven't used it in the dyeing process. It was also interesting to read that some dyes use sulfur to bind the dye. I stated I don't know the composition of the dye, & I don't think I implied you're 'off your rocker.' Sorry if it came across that way. I have also used food color dyes with vinegar in my recent foray into dyeing yarn & had great results with colors. I haven't tried natural dyes, such as tea etc. I hope you're able to find a way to dye yarn-I'm having a lot of fun with it.


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## Janallyn (Feb 16, 2016)

These are with dharma acid dyes, I find I get consistent results, I only dye fibers that are protein, fiber reactive, no real knowledge, will have to edit to attach pics

Jan


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## mama879 (Jan 27, 2011)

Janallyn said:


> These are with dharma acid dyes, I find I get consistent results, I only dye fibers that are protein, fiber reactive, no real knowledge, will have to edit to attach pics
> 
> Jan


Very pretty yarns.


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## Cdambro (Dec 30, 2013)

Janallyn said:


> These are with dharma acid dyes, I find I get consistent results, I only dye fibers that are protein, fiber reactive, no real knowledge, will have to edit to attach pics
> 
> Jan


Pretty colors. I am always amazed to see how beautiful the end result looks.


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## run4fittness (May 22, 2011)

Janallyn said:


> These are with dharma acid dyes, I find I get consistent results, I only dye fibers that are protein, fiber reactive, no real knowledge, will have to edit to attach pics
> 
> Jan


Beautiful!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Spinningmary said:


> Have you considered using natural dyes? ...
> I believe there are Eco Dyes available in America which give good colours and only require white vinegar.


Actually, I think that's my best route (humms..I think I may have penned a reply but guess it didn't post, well, that or when I hit my no sleep wall, I must have forgotten to post it before I zonked out)...

In my post that I didn't post, I mentioned that between Kool-Aid (which just sounds too fun to miss out on at least once!), and food coloring (in for a penny, in for a pound as the saying goes, so that's on my 2 do List 2!), but overall, I think the old fashioned boil, dip/soak and see what you get method is proabably my safest route and best fits my personality..*laughs* being more of a creative thinker that just draws her own pictures in all the blank areas versus coloring inside or outside the lines ...*winks*...
Besides, I now FINALLY have a excuse to use the "Alum" in my spice cabinet! Woohoo! *laughs*...that and the Sezchuan Pepper Corns! (which I learned a giant container too later were far too pepper for me), so Au Naturale sounds like a plan!... I never would have imagined "apple" humms, but I'll have to check that out, too! Thanks!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Conchalea said:


> After reading about your call to Dharma, which I found interesting...used food color dyes with vinegar in my recent foray into dyeing yarn & had great results with colors.... I haven't tried natural dyes, such as tea etc. I hope you're able to find a way to dye yarn-I'm having a lot of fun with it.


Thank you for clarifying the "what" that was... I only started close to one end of the SDS list and began reading the SDS's to see what chemical compounds were used, without any clue what it was all used for..(I mean, the highlighters and pens I "got"..*laughs* bit not any of the dyeing components...)..

Thank you, you're very sweet to say that, and I appreciate you extending your hand; however, I think it less likely was what you wrote, and far more likely that I just read too much into all I read from reading it at once..., because what I wrote however unintentionally could be read as harsh, I do apologize.....I know it happens sometimes on my rough days... what I mean to say & how I wish to say it..isn't necessarily or even remotely what comes across to others, even after I try to proof read,etc..it simply doesn't register to me as harsh isn't my intention..again, totally my bad, so kindly pay me no mind if you read something from me that comes across again as harsh, because harsh isn't ever my intention..*laughs* a bit out there, maybe.....goofy?..well, I'm an insomniac so yeah, goofy & I regularly walk hand and hand..and writing far too much & being far too detailed in my writing...Umm..yup! I'm guilty of both on a regular basis...but being "harsh"..nope, not intentionally...so, Thank you for your patience and understanding (& feedback!) ..*smiles*...If in the future, you feel I deserve it, feel free to throw pies at me..*winks*..*smiles*..(& I dunno if I missed it or how I missed it), but dang, I know that I wrote you a reply when I went back through to make sure and thank everyone..*frowns*.. But, I didn't see it just now, so Please know that I did & do appreciate you taking the time to stop and offer your insight, experience, opinions, and feedback! It may not have seemed that way, but, I really do, and it's great to have such intersting and interested people to point me in the right direction, so Thanks again! *smiles*

Okay, it's far too late & I'm way past "goofy", at this point so until next time!, Thank Agin &..

Happy Hooking & Poking (or Purling) & Dyeing!


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## CuriouslyCrocheted (Dec 28, 2016)

Janallyn said:


> These are with dharma acid dyes...Jan


Before I run off for the night/morning, I had to stop and say...WOW! Luv-Luv the Bright Colors!..and what a Neat & Bold colored Shawl!...Very Cool!...(was that the result of color pooling? I haven't tried that technique yet, but it sounds neat!)....THANK YOU for Sharing your dyeing results!..now...I really can't wait to see what I can come up with...Thanks again!


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