# "War on Women" #11



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> Designer
> what are you talking about.? This was our discussion two days ago. What and why are you bringing it back up?
> This makes no sense you were the one who wanted peace. Now you attack CB again?
> 
> ...


theyarnlady
MYOB. No-one needs your help. As to medications, you seem to be on insufficient ones. Check your writings, they are in need of treatment. Huck


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

As much as I appreciate her support, I see no purpose in Designer bringing back a painful and provocative incident. Please let us move on. 


I agree with you -I definitely don't want to carry it on and I am sorry I didn't let it go - I didn't realize it was not today's posts or late last night I apologize to you and others and CB.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

VocalLisa03

The dustbin of history is calling. It wants that exchange that happened the other night between you and CB. Let it go, k?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

VocalLisa03 said:


> Well, I have tried to mirror the wretched at times, but let's face it my style is unique in that many know who I am right away with each returning visit.


VocalLisa03
are you Ingried? That distinct style makes me think that. Do not to answer, keep us guessing.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

VocalLisa03 said:


> CB regularly pulls that kind of crap with her prostletizing.
> 
> So, I'll make a deal. If CB agrees to stop running around the board "saving souls, I'll agree to refrain from letting her know about what God has told me about what he thinks of the fate of her soul.
> 
> Is that a deal?


I guess only CB can answer that, but it sounds OK to me.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

VocalLisa03 said:


> CB regularly pulls that kind of crap with her prostletizing.
> 
> So, I'll make a deal. If CB agrees to stop running around the board "saving souls, I'll agree to refrain from letting her know about what God has told me about what he thinks of the fate of her soul.
> 
> Is that a deal?


Vocalisa03
if you have success with that offer I shall drink to that. Huck


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

VocalLisa03 said:


> CB regularly pulls that kind of crap with her prostletizing.
> 
> So, I'll make a deal. If CB agrees to stop running around the board "saving souls, I'll agree to refrain from letting her know about what God has told me about what he thinks of the fate of her soul.
> 
> Is that a deal?


I can't make a deal for CB being I'm not her BFF, mom, lawyer or food-taster. That has to be her decision. Let's add one caveat. If she does her proselytizing on one of the predominately conservative threads, let it go unless she is directly disrespecting you. And no cheating by looking for possible slights, k?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisa03 said:


> Well, I have tried to mirror the wretched at times, but let's face it my style is unique in that many know who I am right away with each returning visit.


Yup! :lol:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

VocalLisa03 said:


> I dont even know or recall who Ingried is, so no, Im not.
> 
> Before I really was just vocallisa and not any of the sockpuppets they imagined I was.
> 
> It wasnt until their paranioa about me being many others that I decided to play into their sad, sad fear of imagining I was around every corner.


VocalLisa03
it is gratifying to be so important that they think any of us are others as well. Paranoia galore. Wonder how many other hang-ups they have to deal with in their lives. Tortured Souls.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisa03 said:


> Well, I have tried to mirror the wretched at times, but let's face it my style is unique in that many know who I am right away with each returning visit.


Your style is unique, but (language police, please excuse me) not as unique as one who writes sentences like "You do not know that of which I speak" or "of which I spoke prior."


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

VocalLisa03 said:


> Hope you're not thirsty.
> 
> If she agrees never prosletize here, I will agree from telling her what God has communicated to me about her and her supposed Christianity
> 
> She's free to live in her distorted ignorance as long as she leaves others alone in that regard.


VocalLisa02
I lift a Stein to that or any other larger measure to hold that certain liquid.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

VocalLisa03 said:


> She's free to live in her distorted ignorance as long as she leaves others alone in that regard.


To you it may be distorted ignorance. To her it may be the path of truth. Not judging you or CB as I cannot slip into either of your minds and fully share your respective truths.

I did not care at all for the exchange I saw the other night and am requesting from all parties an effort to avoid a repeat performance.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, I see that I didn't miss anything in the HOURS that I was on the phone. &#128533;


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Hey, Designer. How did your husband's doctors appointment go? All well? Been thinking of you!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Your style is unique, but (language police, please excuse me) not as unique as one who writes sentences like "You do not know that of which I speak" or "of which I spoke prior."


Poor Purl
one is the "uniquest", past tense not known at all and the rest is lower than 4th grade. Well accepted by her Peers while, if any of us would be so insufficient, we would be hearing about it loud and clear. And so it goes.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Your style is unique, but (language police, please excuse me) not as unique as one who writes sentences like "You do not know that of which I speak" or "of which I spoke prior."


 :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup:


alcameron
your flowers are gorgeous.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you.



Poor Purl said:


>


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Obviously Mr. Lautenberg needs reminded of what too old. Poor memory, no doubt.



MarilynKnits said:


> There is dirty politics going on all the time. I am paraphrasing a bit the words of a person who worked for Millicent Fenwick, an elected official who truly and honestly represented her constituents.
> 
> Frank Lautenberg, the man who ran against Millicent Fenwick in 1982, who inferred in so many less-than-subtle ways that Millicent was too old to serve in the US Senate at the age of 72, asked us to send him back to the US Senate until he turns 90-years-old.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Whoa!! Afro-American is a term to describe anyone of color????? Wonder if the people of Asian and American Indian descent know this...
> 
> Learn something new everyday.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> Obviously Mr. Lautenberg needs reminded of what too old. Poor memory, no doubt.


I thought he was dead!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah! You're right, of course.



MarilynKnits said:


> That using irrelevant information obfuscates the issues at hand.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Unless you met both in person at the same time and checked photo ID, I don't know how you'd know.



Mountain Stitches said:


> Has anyone met or talked with KPG or VocalLisa via any media other than Knitting Paradise? Their styles are similar and people who enjoy playing devil's advocate excel at presenting any side of an issue.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I still remember when a newscaster referred to Nelson Mandela as an African American.



susanmos2000 said:


> You raise an interesting point, Joey. The switch from "black" to "African-American" has come about fairly recently, and while I think it's a good to try to change the focus from one's skin color to their country (or continent) of origin the new term isn't 100% satisfactory. It does seem to exclude a lot of folks--those from the Caribbean, from Mexico (a fair number of those from Veracruz are what we use to describe as black), and of course recent immigrants from any of the countries that make up present-day Africa.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This is very perceptive of you. It's disturbing that all the air is taken up by something that's a) a done deal and b) therefore relatively unimportant in the grand scheme of things. This is once again the Republican Party trick of using God, gays, and guns against the Dems.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't understand your point. Phony outrage? Real and unreal scandals, depending on your viewpoint? No better than 20 years ago? Diversions. One minute you sound like you're agreeing; the next minute you're talking diversions. Point me in the right direction. I appreciate your viewpoint.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Everything's a diversion. The maylsian airliner, the lost girls, gay marriage. We have some real scandals thrown in, Benghazi, the VA etc... But its all sound bites. They speak with phony outrage about hungry people or people without jobs but they never do anything about it. Why are things no better now than 20 years ago? Why are they worse? Why are fewer people working now than in 2008? Why are nearly half the people in this country on food stamps? Why do they all say they care about the middle class, as the middle class is vanishing? Because its all for show! They are all owned by the 1%! They are bought and paid for! If they can't be bought, they'll be blackmailed! We better wake up to what's really happening in this country before there's only two classes of people, the rich and the poor. The royalty and the peasants. The divisions are intentional! They distract us from what is really going on! What goes around comes around. We are not immune.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not to mention that they're diametrically opposite in belief. They are natural opponents. I see no other similarity.



Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting question, and at the least it's thought provoking.
> 
> BUT, I don't see any similarity in their writing styles. They may have similar ways of dealing with people who offend them, but write very differently.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

So we agree to disagree then. Our thought processes are different.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I am NOT inclined to agree! She is assuming she knows how people think or feel, based upon the color of their skin. If that's not racism, what is?!?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's not what I get from her message. She's in fact talking about the (presumably) white people who claim there is no racism in this country any more. And I think she can guess how they think from hearing the things they say. She may not be right, but she's not racist.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here is what she said on page 191:
> 
> First of all no one is bringing up anyone's blackness "all the time". That's dishonest hyperbole.
> 
> ...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
These quotes reflect my thinking on the differing views of racism:
"You can BOTH treat people as human beings AND acknowledge their unique experiences due to their race. It's not one OR the other."
"People insisting that "colorblindness" prevail really mean they want to pretend there aren't still serious rampant racism happening.
If you can't see race, then racism doesn't exist. Then you don't have to do anything about it. You don't have to change your behavior and no laws need to be enacted to protect the rights of people of color." And this is WRONG. Racism is there even when some of us don't acknowledge it. 
"People who want total color blindness are are only looking for a way to avoid taking personal responsibility for their own racism and that exists in the culture around them."
IMHO


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Try white wine with Chambord.



Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> Aldi's has a very nice Riesling = Landshut, Mosel. It comes in a blue Bottle. Did not find it as Trader Joe's. A friend sent us an assortment of Missouri Berry Wines, I see them as a Dessert by themselves. Heavy in flavor and very delicious. I mix a little of those with Andre's.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> I see no color of skin only that of the Heart.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Since we can't enforce a timeout, perhaps ignoring them is all that's left.



MarilynKnits said:


> Sometimes the children squabble. Let's hope they outgrow it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

If you are calling someone anything based on the color of their skin, I suggest myob.



joeysomma said:


> What do you call someone who was born in Jamaica and is now a US citizen? His skin is darker than most from Africa. Especially if you do not know where he was born.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> one is the "uniquest", past tense not known at all and the rest is lower than 4th grade. Well accepted by her Peers while, if any of us would be so insufficient, we would be hearing about it loud and clear. And so it goes.


Huck, absolutely right.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

WARNING it's late and the discussion tends to disintegrate quickly.



Country Bumpkins said:


> Well since I am taking up for myself I will not stop until your friends stop bringing it up. Especially the one that thinks she knows what a Christian is. I am tired of her judgement on me and slandering me for 3 days. I have been silent. You would take up for yourself too . Tell Shirley, PP and 17 head to leave me alone.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Do we want to start and add every nuance of our heredity into our introductions?
> HELLO, I am British, Irish, Swedish, Swiss, Jamaican, African - American, does that make you like or dislike me? Perhaps the introduction should be: I am a Rainbow-American. What nonsense. I am looking for unity and not divison of any sort.
> 
> Who started this mess? Looking for another subject to begin another fight? Grow up folks. We have more important things to stew over.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put. Even .....stopped in time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm afraid the issue of neglected sexual assaults in the military is slipping from notice. Has anyone heard anything about it lately?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What shall we stew over next? Got any ideas? Think of a good one!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hope you feel better soon.



Poor Purl said:


> Okay, you certainly have a point, and you probably know more than the rest of us whiteys what certain black people have experienced and expect and think and hope for. But I think her point about colorblindness is valid, *for the most part*. Truthfully, I have an awful backache and shouldn't try to do any thinking right now so I'll stop. If I don't remember to continue another time, either so be it or you can remind me.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Very kind explanation.



Designer1234 said:


> It was getting out of hand. I know you believe absolutely, but My Christianity is a lot different than yours. You were saying some dreadful things about someone going to the Pit (obviously Hell)instead of Heaven, and I just don't feel any of us can judge what will happen to any other person. Only God judges- It was getting out of hand. Also the conversation was way out of place on a public this or any public forum. It should have been kept private if those things had to be said.
> 
> Please read it and try to understand what an insult that is for someone you have never met. Many people are nasty on these threads - It crossed the line in my opinion. I am sorry .
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Country Bumpkins said:


> You are the one doing the attacking us. Go look in the mirror. It is you. You do mean harm. Just because you say the words you don't doesn't mean you are not doing it. You have hurt me 3 times now. I forgave you the first time ignored you the 2 nd time but now the 3rd time. What has this to do with KPG or LTL? You have to bring them up every few seconds too. They haven't even been on in a few days but you have to always bring them up.
> I never said you had to agree with me. You have bashed me 3 times without warant. I am tired of it. You lied on me the first time now you are trying to ruin my Christian witness. Maybe I am further along than you in my spiritual walk. You need to point those 3 finger back to you while you are pointing at me. I guess you don't know anything about demons I do so ignore me if I do it again. I won't promise you I won't because you are not my Holy Spirit or my mother.


Off we go...into the wild blue yonder......


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> If you are calling someone anything based on the color of their skin, I suggest myob.


There's one very important reason NOT to be color-blind: the medical one. Since certain conditions are inherited, without knowing a person's racial makeup, doctors won't know what to look for. In fact, color isn't even enough. For example, Tay-Sachs disease is seen only in Jews. Why would a geneticist test for it if he didn't know the patient was Jewish?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Off we go...into the wild blue yonder......


You're a baaaaaaad girl.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> Designer
> what are you talking about.? This was our discussion two days ago. What and why are you bringing it back up?
> This makes no sense you were the one who wanted peace. Now you attack CB again?
> 
> ...


Blasting off.....


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we're all supposed to be each other. Who's on first

?


Huckleberry said:


> VocalLisa03
> are you Ingried? That distinct style makes me think that. Do not to answer, keep us guessing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Your style is unique, but (language police, please excuse me) not as unique as one who writes sentences like "You do not know that of which I speak" or "of which I spoke prior."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

All the better. Actually the comment was his saying his opponent was too old to run at 79.



alcameron said:


> I thought he was dead!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am bad.



Poor Purl said:


> You're a baaaaaaad girl.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I would feel no sense of loss if I never read another word written by VL. Anyone who thinks bullying bullies accomplishes anything or doesn't put a stain on thei soul is insane. There is already an excess of this sort of insanity n the world already.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> What do you call someone who was born in Jamaica and is now a US citizen? His skin is darker than most from Africa. Especially if you do not know where he was born.


You call him a fellow human being and hopefully a friend. The colour in your skin is only dependent on the amount of melanin present. Me, I am coloured, a variety of colours in fact. I am mostly pinkish with a variety of brown spots and blobs, some dark and some not so dark. I have, or had, red hair and we red heads display this multitude of colours in our skin tones.

So, What do you call someone who was born in Jamaica, regardless of whether they are now a US citizen? You call them a friend, a fellow human being.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I don't think any of us on either side want this carried on - Please stop.


I agaree. I had though of answering these quotes of theirs with a quote from the Dalai Lama but then I thought of what he would say on the subject. He would just smile, nod his head and say "Let it be, let it go. You will not change their way of thinking. If they wish to continue to think their thoughts, then let them continue to do so. Do not try to engage them and get them to change their point of view because you will fail." Humans are attached to their views, their point of view, it is called attachment. Buddha said so much about attachment, he labelled it 'the cause of suffering'. According to the Buddha, if you can free yourself from attachment you can free your self from the cycle of rebirth.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> What do you call someone who was born in Jamaica and is now a US citizen? His skin is darker than most from Africa. Especially if you do not know where he was born.


Just my two cents. I would call the person an American.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> We mix that as well. We make our own Seltzer via a special Bottle using CO2 Cartridges. We never drink Soda, only Seltzer pure or with a little Lemon, Lime or orange Juice. When baking I often use Seltzer Water instead of reg. Water.


We used to use the canister and cartridge years ago. Then when the children were growing up and we got into this house, my husband put a CO2 canister in the basement, and using stainless pipes, brought it up through an opening in the kitchen sink faucet with an adapted sprayer from one of those seltzer bottles that used to be delivered. We got syrups at a wholesale soda distributor, and the kids made their own sodas and especially loved to make egg creams. Went through huge amounts of Fox's UBet syrup. Used it until a leak developed in the piping and we couldn't trace it out. Kids were grown and out by then, anyway.

Seltzer is cheap enough now that we just get a few bottles at the grocery.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What shall we stew over next? Got any ideas? Think of a good one!


There was an article in the New Jersey Gannett newspaper this morning that sparks some hope for the future:

Event focus is bringing manufacturing jobs back to U.S.
Patricia Moran, Correspondent; 2:38 p.m. EDT May 29, 2014
Bringing Manufacturing Back Home: The Reshoring Initiative helps U.S. manufacturers recognize profit potential and the critical economic role of utilizing local sourcing and production.

Last Wednesday evening, I attended an event sponsored by the New Jersey Tooling and Manufacturing Association called Bringing Manufacturing Back Home: The Reshoring Initiative. The industry-led effort to bring manufacturing jobs back to the United States works with U.S. manufacturers to help them recognize their profit potential, as well as the critical role they play in strengthening the economy by utilizing local sourcing and production.

The presenter, Harry Moser, educated his audience on the reasons why many manufacturers are starting to shift their operations back to the U.S. He discussed how offshoring has hindered a manufacturers ability to provide a short delivery time to the customer, maintain low inventories, uphold costs, and respond to simple product adjustments in a timely fashion. Additionally, he talked about the risks manufacturers take when shipping their production overseas, including increased travel costs to check on suppliers, as well as intellectual property risk.

Many within the audience said they had a strong passion for manufacturing. Moser grew up in Elizabeth and spent much time at the Singer Sewing Machine factory, where his father and grandfather worked. Assemblyman Troy Singleton, D-7th District, spoke about his father, a machinist in a manufacturing facility. I couldnt help but think of my 18 years at the Ford Motor Company in the Edison Assembly Plant.

Our economy needs manufacturing. Manufacturing brings JOBS. Our New Jersey residents need these jobs! Hopefully, Mosers work will impact our economy, and we will soon see products Remade in the USA.

Patricia Moran is an adjunct professor at Middlesex County College. She holds a doctorate from Walden University.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Obviously Mr. Lautenberg needs reminded of what too old. Poor memory, no doubt.


Well, he is dead now, and if there is an afterlife, I wouldn't want to be him meeting Millicent (if they ended up in the same place).


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> I still remember when a newscaster referred to Nelson Mandela as an African American.


Helps give us all a reality check that if you hear it on the news, it is not always correct!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Not to mention that they're diametrically opposite in belief. They are natural opponents. I see no other similarity.


Unless there is a yin and yang going on. Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde? Up to each of us to figure out which is which.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> There's one very important reason NOT to be color-blind: the medical one. Since certain conditions are inherited, without knowing a person's racial makeup, doctors won't know what to look for. In fact, color isn't even enough. For example, Tay-Sachs disease is seen only in Jews. Why would a geneticist test for it if he didn't know the patient was Jewish?


Interestingly enough, despite its reputation Tay-Sachs isn't exclusively a "Jewish" disease. The genetic mutation is carried by Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews and also found in French Canadians of southeastern Quebec, and in the Cajuns of Louisiana. I forget exactly why this happens, but I believe it has to do with the gene mutating spontaneously in one individual in a relatively isolated population and then being passed around.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I don't understand your point. Phony outrage? Real and unreal scandals, depending on your viewpoint? No better than 20 years ago? Diversions. One minute you sound like you're agreeing; the next minute you're talking diversions. Point me in the right direction. I appreciate your viewpoint.


The point I'm trying to make (and this is my opinion) is that our two party system has become a false paradigm. Both parties are the same thing. They both work for the same people (the 1%). The parties spout different viewpoints just so that the masses feel like they're being represented. But in the end they're following the same agenda. They say different things but they do the same things. Nothing changes! We just keep continuing down the same road. There have been times when the democrats have had complete control and times when the republicans have had complete control. And yet, nothing changes. The wars go on! We have been at war my entire life! Why? The middle class keeps evaporating! Why? I think its because the 1% want that. They speak openly about a one world government, a new world order. In fact here's a link showing daddy bush talking about it. 



They are using the UN to try and end every country's sovereignty (a big topic for another day). I know that this sounds like crazy stuff but I've done the research. We can go into it peice by peice if we want, agenda 21, the IMF, the CFR, the Bilderbergers etc... Its like a big giant puzzle and everything is connected. They operate in the open and then say were crazy if we see it. Well, I'm not crazy! Yes, there are some crazy things that get connected to all of this. I'm not talking about those things. I'm talking about facts. You have to look through the forest to see the trees.

The mainstream media is owned and controlled by the same 1%. Every TV station, every radio station, every newspaper and many online outlets. They control what the average person hears and thinks. They decide what stories you will hear incessantly. Every station carries the same thing, almost word for word. If we become outraged about something, its because they want us to become outraged. They're manipulating us. They promote divide and conquer. Dems vs repubs. Black vs white. Gay vs straight. Men vs women. That way, the masses are so busy arguing with each other and focusing on the little things, that they don't even see the puzzle at all. They're focused on the peices instead of the big picture.

I really believe that this is going on. Just give it some thought. Don't dismiss it immediately because it sounds crazy. And don't confuse it with the crazy stuff that's out there. The crazy stuff is out there to make people turn away and not seek the truth. Its like I said about the chemtrails. They DO exist. They have been turned into a crazy thing by the so called crazies. You have to look for the truth hidden behind the crazy. It is there! They are all about misdirection.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> These quotes reflect my thinking on the differing views of racism:
> "You can BOTH treat people as human beings AND acknowledge their unique experiences due to their race. It's not one OR the other."
> "People insisting that "colorblindness" prevail really mean they want to pretend there aren't still serious rampant racism happening.
> ...


I understand what you're saying but here is clarification on how I feel. I feel that we shouldn't assume what anyone thinks or wants. I treat all people the same. If they want to talk about racism, I'm not uncomfortable with that. I always acknowledge it. I discuss it. But I don't assume that someone wants to acknowledge that just because they are black. Most of the time, black people want to talk about ordinary everyday stuff. It would be unkind of me to keep bringing up their race. And why would I? We are all different due to our unique experiences. Sometimes we talk about them but most times we don't. I don't see color blindness as denial. I see it as moving forward. They only want to be treated just like everyone else. We have laws that were supposed to outlaw racism but ignorance abounds. As I see it, society has been better at outlawing racism than our laws have. When we hear someone making racist comments we have to let them know that is not acceptable. We must not ignore evil. We must shut it down. Things have changed enormously in the last fifty years. The laws were the impetus of that change but society was the force behind it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I'm afraid the issue of neglected sexual assaults in the military is slipping from notice. Has anyone heard anything about it lately?


I haven't. Is anyone doing anything about it? Or is it business as usual? I'd read somewhere that currently the majority of sexual assaults in the military were male on male.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hey, Designer. How did your husband's doctors appointment go? All well? Been thinking of you!


Very very well. Everything is ticking along nicely - so that is #l behind us. Thanks for asking.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's one very important reason NOT to be color-blind: the medical one. Since certain conditions are inherited, without knowing a person's racial makeup, doctors won't know what to look for. In fact, color isn't even enough. For example, Tay-Sachs disease is seen only in Jews. Why would a geneticist test for it if he didn't know the patient was Jewish?


Is Tay-Sachs the disease that's only in European (the Ashkenazi) Jews? I read about that once and found it interesting that only the European Jews got it. Is it purely genetic? If it were, you'd think it would be all mixed into the general population by now. A complete medical history is always important.

Oops! Just saw Susan's reply. I'm a bit behind this morning.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There was an article in the New Jersey Gannett newspaper this morning that sparks some hope for the future:
> 
> Event focus is bringing manufacturing jobs back to U.S.
> Patricia Moran, Correspondent; 2:38 p.m. EDT May 29, 2014
> ...


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Very very well. Everything is ticking along nicely - so that is #l behind us. Thanks for asking.


So relieved! Now you get through yours with flying colors, I pray.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Vocalisa03 said:


> I should have said MOST people who.....
> 
> Other's might not be aware what an insult to blank people it is to insist that their their color be ignored.
> 
> ...


The black people that I know would like that their color be ignored. They're tired of being defined by it. They just want to be treated like everyone else! Color blindness is not ignoring history. Its just moving forward, creating a new history to follow the old. We must not remain stuck in the past. Society will eliminate racists. Its happening now. The process is not complete but I hope that someday it will be.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Vocalisa03 said:


> I should have said MOST people who.....
> 
> Other's might not be aware what an insult to blank people it is to insist that their their color be ignored. Most black people are not asking for you to ignore their color, they're asking that they not be pre-judged negatively based on their race. Their asking not to be discriminated due to their race. There is something wrong with you or I if we have to pretend they're of no color in order to do that?
> 
> ...


Another important point to be made: when I look into my grandson's face, I see no color! I see pure unadulterated LOVE! He sees color only in its purest form. Mommy is brown. Daddy is oweeeenge. That's all! Would that we could all be like children!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Vocalisa03 said:


> I promise you, your misunderstanding them. They're tired of being discriminated against because of their color.
> 
> Like most other cultures they're not "tired" of their culture they're proud of it, and they dont want it ifnored as if its something to be ashamed of. Which is what "colorblindness does"
> 
> I can tell by your verbiage you're actually not very CLOSE to ypur black friends.


Why do you presume to think you know what all black people think or feel?!? I am very close to my daughter in law and her entire family (except her father, he took off). We get together for big family get togethers every few months. We have girl's nights all the time. We talk! I can't imagine why you think you're qualified to tell me what they think! I know what they think! I knew my dil before my son even met her! I can't think of a time when I didn't have black friends and neighbors and while I may not have known their heart of hearts, I DO know my dil and her family. You can only speak for yourself!!! You do not know what others think or feel! To put all blacks into a box and claim that they feel the same way, IS racist! Just stop it! Please!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The point I'm trying to make (and this is my opinion) is that our two party system has become a false paradigm. Both parties are the same thing. They both work for the same people (the 1%). The parties spout different viewpoints just so that the masses feel like they're being represented. But in the end they're following the same agenda. They say different things but they do the same things. Nothing changes! We just keep continuing down the same road. There have been times when the democrats have had complete control and times when the republicans have had complete control. And yet, nothing changes. The wars go on! We have been at war my entire life! Why? The middle class keeps evaporating! Why? I think its because the 1% want that. They speak openly about a one world government, a new world order. In fact here's a link showing daddy bush talking about it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Had a similar conversation with my older bro last night. Thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Had a similar conversation with my older bro last night. Thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you! I only want people to CONSIDER what things might be!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Off we go...into the wild blue yonder......


damemary
should not those who profess to know that they are winding up in Heaven, know, that the road there is a very rocky one, and that they should enjoy the bumpy ride to the fullest because the more they suffer, the closer they get to where they want to wind up? Just my little biblical lesson for the day or as one could call it, one interpretation of thousands of interpretations.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Interestingly enough, despite its reputation Tay-Sachs isn't exclusively a "Jewish" disease. The genetic mutation is carried by Eastern European Ashkenazi Jews and also found in French Canadians of southeastern Quebec, and in the Cajuns of Louisiana. I forget exactly why this happens, but I believe it has to do with the gene mutating spontaneously in one individual in a relatively isolated population and then being passed around.


This is really fascinating. I once heard of a disease that was present only in Armenians and Ashkenazi Jews, which makes some sense because they came from roughly the same area, but French Canadians and Cajuns! I guess when Mother Nature wants to stir things up, she goes all the way!

I just looked it up. Apparently the Old Order Amish in Pennsylvania have it, too.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> There was an article in the New Jersey Gannett newspaper this morning that sparks some hope for the future:
> 
> Event focus is bringing manufacturing jobs back to U.S.
> Patricia Moran, Correspondent; 2:38 p.m. EDT May 29, 2014
> ...


MarilynKnits
I have been preaching about this necessity for ages. Manufacturing is slowly returning to our shores. The bucks expected are no longer coming in from off-shore and that is enough reason for change. The Greedy also have learned that they lost a lot of control by outsourcing and it is hurting them in many ways. We will emerge as a leading Nation once again. A slow process but we shall get there.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Is Tay-Sachs the disease that's only in European (the Ashkenazi) Jews? I read about that once and found it interesting that only the European Jews got it. Is it purely genetic? If it were, you'd think it would be all mixed into the general population by now. A complete medical history is always important.
> 
> Oops! Just saw Susan's reply. I'm a bit behind this morning.


The gene for T-S is a recessive one, which means both partners have to be carrying it for the disease to be even possible. Even if both partners are carriers, there's a 75% chance that each of their babies will be normal. But for the 25% that have the disease, it's a horror.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> This is really fascinating. I once heard of a disease that was present only in Armenians and Ashkenazi Jews, which makes some sense because they came from roughly the same area, but French Canadians and Cajuns! I guess when Mother Nature wants to stir things up, she goes all the way!
> 
> I just looked it up. Apparently the Old Order Amish in Pennsylvania have it, too.


My goodness, I didn't know that. I know they have a fair amount of dwarfism (sorry, don't know the proper term) and a metabolic disorder nicknamed "the maple sugar disease", due I guess to too much intermarriage. I've heard, though, that the Amish are a godsend for researchers studying genetic diseases--not because they have them (what group doesn't?) but because they keep very detailed family histories and don't mind sharing them with scientists.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I haven't. Is anyone doing anything about it? Or is it business as usual? I'd read somewhere that currently the majority of sexual assaults in the military were male on male.


Knitter from Nebraska
Claire McCascill is working very hard on this subject. She won't let go of it. I think she is from the Midwest somewhere and close to Military bases. Need to check what she has done so far.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I have been preaching about this necessity for ages. Manufacturing is slowly returning to our shores. The bucks expected are no longer coming in from off-shore and that is enough reason for change. The Greedy also have learned that they lost a lot of control by outsourcing and it is hurting them in many ways. We will emerge as a leading Nation once again. A slow process but we shall get there.


One thing to keep in mind about bring the jobs back home; the other country's rely on those dollars to buy oil. Without "dollars", they can't purchase oil. Read about the petrodollar. If we take away their ability to get dollars, they will rebel against the dollar being the international currency. When that happens the dollar will collapse. I believe its happening anyway but they're just delaying it. All things are interconnected. All decisions are based upon what is best for the 1%. They are already making plans for an international currency. A one world government with a one world currency. Preparations are bring made but it will take time to put everything in place.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The gene for T-S is a recessive one, which means both partners have to be carrying it for the disease to be even possible. Even if both partners are carriers, there's a 75% chance that each of their babies will be normal. But for the 25% that have the disease, it's a horror.


Very interesting. I wonder if the groups that get it are all fairly cloistered like the Amish. You'd think that it would have spread to the general populations by now?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Claire McCascill is working very hard on this subject. She won't let go of it. I think she is from the Midwest somewhere and close to Military bases. Need to check what she has done so far.


I'm glad that someone won't let go. Even more important than the legal side, is changing people's attitudes so that they will report the abuse. It seems that "don't ask, don't tell" has more than one meaning in the military. We need to encourage both men and women to report and stop this evil!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Well, I've got to pull myself away. I need to get my house cleaned as everyone is coming for breakfast on Sunday. Cleaning, shopping planning! That's my agenda.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Claire McCascill is working very hard on this subject. She won't let go of it. I think she is from the Midwest somewhere and close to Military bases. Need to check what she has done so far.


She's from Missouri.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You mean where I say "maybe" and "seems" and "wonder"? Even on your lighter side, you can't tell the truth.
> 
> But I'm delighted that you no longer regard me as abusive.


You have done so a number of times in the past.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

VOcalLisa
Excellent explanation re:color blindness


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I don't think you think.


Oh my, a grade school put down. You should be so proud.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> User list shows KPG as registering 5/21/13
> 
> VocalLisa registering 1/4/14
> 
> What is this question supposed to prove?


PULEEESE! VocalLisa has other identities that date back before 1/4/14. She hasn't fooled anyone even you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I must add an observation.
> 
> When the middle class has vanished, children are hungry etc. the big topic is 'gay marriage.'
> 
> Is it just a diversion from topics of more general import? I'm not saying gay rights are not important. Quite the contrary. It just seems easy to divide and inflame opinions and divert action away from obvious priorities. I'm interested in your thoughts.


Good for you. You've opened your mind and you're finally hearing what Republicans are saying. They have been saying this for years.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

V0calLisa03 said:


> Okay KIB, I actually want to try and prevent this from blowing up any worse.
> 
> I sincerely apologize that the way I've phrased things has made you feel like you needed to defend yourself.
> 
> ...


You apparently chose to ignore most of what I wrote. Your glib remarks about my knowing only " one" black person are presumptuous at best. Throughout my adult life, I have always had black friends and neighbors. As with all of my friends, we can and do, talk about everything including discrimination! But my friends don't see it from me. They are free to be whomever they are. I don't treat them like victims or pity them. I treat them like equals! Maybe the black people you know have come from situations where they feel differently. But again, I say that you can't make generalizations based upon skin color! Being blind to one's color does NOT mean ignoring the past! It only means treating them as equals in the present! Your interpretation is not the same as mine and you will not convince me. Neither does that make me a white supremicist. Why would you even bring that up? Intimidation? Did you think it would make me run from my statements? Its a bully tactic, nothing more.

I don't feel the need to defend myself at all! I'm making statements of fact and you don't like them! Not all black people think and feel the same way! Fact!!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A Jamaican American!


Why can't they just be called an American? Why do Americans need to be divided into groups? It's more like a new age segregation. If they are US citizens or naturalized, then they are Americans. We don't need to be something else before we are Americans.

Bratty said maybe he should be classified as an American with Jamaican roots. Maybe that's how all should be classified. American first, then their ancestry. (I know Bratty, I should have warned you that I agreed with you. Twice in one week. Amazing.) :wink: :wink:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You have done so a number of times in the past.


So has everyone else. The number of times I hear conservatives saying "What liberals want..." or "All liberals think," etc. is uncountable. You included. And several times you've been shown to be wrong.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> PULEEESE! VocalLisa has other identities that date back before 1/4/14. She hasn't fooled anyone even you.


This appears to be a delusion on D&P's part. She isn't Cheeky. Cheeky has barely been around for family reasons. And she's not Ingried, who possibly has health issues.

I don't know why you people feel it necessary to conflate us. Could it be that there are more of us than you'd like?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> There was an article in the New Jersey Gannett newspaper this morning that sparks some hope for the future:
> 
> Event focus is bringing manufacturing jobs back to U.S.
> Patricia Moran, Correspondent; 2:38 p.m. EDT May 29, 2014
> ...


This has been happening in a few states around the country. What also needs to be done is reduce the number of regulations on these new businesses so they can succeed.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why can't they just be called an American? Why do Americans need to be divided into groups? It's more like a new age segregation. If they are US citizens or naturalized, then they are Americans. We don't need to be something else before we are Americans.


When people are right, they are right. And in my opinion, you are absolutely right on this topic. There is so much divisiveness in society that we should seek points of cohesiveness.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This appears to be a delusion on D&P's part. She isn't Cheeky. Cheeky has barely been around for family reasons. And she's not Ingried, who possibly has health issues.
> 
> I don't know why you people feel it necessary to conflate us. Could it be that there are more of us than you'd like?


You have your opinion about who is who and I mine.


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

I must be waaayyy lazier than you guys. When I have to put someone into a category, I just ask the person about their preference. Less brain strain.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo! Practical reasons to undo the damage.



MarilynKnits said:


> There was an article in the New Jersey Gannett newspaper this morning that sparks some hope for the future:
> 
> Event focus is bringing manufacturing jobs back to U.S.
> Patricia Moran, Correspondent; 2:38 p.m. EDT May 29, 2014
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Highly unlikely, but interesting thought.



MarilynKnits said:


> Well, he is dead now, and if there is an afterlife, I wouldn't want to be him meeting Millicent (if they ended up in the same place).


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> Never said they did. But they do have a shared culture and if you're actually listening to them there's no denying the reality that there is a predominant common experience of certain white people trying to deny racism via "color blindness".
> 
> You can either choose to pay attention to that or you can live in your little white bubble of denial that HELPS racists avoid taking resposibility for their behaviors.


Oooohhh! " Certain white people"?!? Maybe you were speaking of "certain" black people too? I spoke with my dil a little while ago. She said that the biggest form of discrimination she faces is that people fall all over themselves trying to be nice. She said she JUST WANTS TO BE TREATED LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE! Yes! This is discrimination! But she only wants to be treated like everyone else! So you MUST have been talking about "certain" black people. Perhaps you could just pop right out of YOUR bubble of misguided ideas long enough to understand that you don't speak for all, or even most, black people! Anymore than I can speak for all or even most, white people!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's why I keep it in my memory banks. Nelson Mandela, great African-American. (It wasn't even on Faux News.)



MarilynKnits said:


> Helps give us all a reality check that if you hear it on the news, it is not always correct!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bait and Switch?



MarilynKnits said:


> Unless there is a yin and yang going on. Dr. Jeckyll and Mr. Hyde? Up to each of us to figure out which is which.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the clarification.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I understand what you're saying but here is clarification on how I feel. I feel that we shouldn't assume what anyone thinks or wants. I treat all people the same. If they want to talk about racism, I'm not uncomfortable with that. I always acknowledge it. I discuss it. But I don't assume that someone wants to acknowledge that just because they are black. Most of the time, black people want to talk about ordinary everyday stuff. It would be unkind of me to keep bringing up their race. And why would I? We are all different due to our unique experiences. Sometimes we talk about them but most times we don't. I don't see color blindness as denial. I see it as moving forward. They only want to be treated just like everyone else. We have laws that were supposed to outlaw racism but ignorance abounds. As I see it, society has been better at outlawing racism than our laws have. When we hear someone making racist comments we have to let them know that is not acceptable. We must not ignore evil. We must shut it down. Things have changed enormously in the last fifty years. The laws were the impetus of that change but society was the force behind it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I haven't. Is anyone doing anything about it? Or is it business as usual? I'd read somewhere that currently the majority of sexual assaults in the military were male on male.


Then perhaps we'll see some action.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> I think it's racist to require people to ignore their unique characteristics in order for us to all get along.
> 
> What is divisive is people UNWILLINGNESS to respect and learn from Others differences.
> 
> ...


You sure are backing down from your original premise. I never said we had to ignore "unique characteristics" OR that we had to melt into one blob! I SAID that we should treat them like we treat everyone else and we should not speak of them as a group! They are individuals with different experiences and should be treated as such!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Halleluiah.



Designer1234 said:


> Very very well. Everything is ticking along nicely - so that is #l behind us. Thanks for asking.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why do you presume to think you know what all black people think or feel?!? I am very close to my daughter in law and her entire family (except her father, he took off). We get together for big family get togethers every few months. We have girl's nights all the time. We talk! I can't imagine why you think you're qualified to tell me what they think! I know what they think! I knew my dil before my son even met her! I can't think of a time when I didn't have black friends and neighbors and while I may not have known their heart of hearts, I DO know my dil and her family. You can only speak for yourself!!! You do not know what others think or feel! To put all blacks into a box and claim that they feel the same way, IS racist! Just stop it! Please!


I've always thought that the key lies in knowing each other as individuals.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't you usually refer to him as your evil twin? I get it, you're close but have different political philosophies?



SQM said:


> Had a similar conversation with my older bro last night. Thumbs up! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> Just a question. Should we be gender-blind too?
> 
> Should we all ignore that there is male and female and just pretend we're all androgynous? Or should we celebrate our differences and make sure both are treated with equal respect and dignity?


Are you trying to insinuate that I'm stupid and ignorant? It won't work! This is off the topic that we were discussing! I think maybe you just figured out that you can't speak for others! And THAT is what started all of this!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nice try.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> should not those who profess to know that they are winding up in Heaven, know, that the road there is a very rocky one, and that they should enjoy the bumpy ride to the fullest because the more they suffer, the closer they get to where they want to wind up? Just my little biblical lesson for the day or as one could call it, one interpretation of thousands of interpretations.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I've always thought that the key lies in knowing each other as individuals.


I agree!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The return of manufacturing would advance the minimum wage too. So much to be gained.



Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I have been preaching about this necessity for ages. Manufacturing is slowly returning to our shores. The bucks expected are no longer coming in from off-shore and that is enough reason for change. The Greedy also have learned that they lost a lot of control by outsourcing and it is hurting them in many ways. We will emerge as a leading Nation once again. A slow process but we shall get there.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> The return of manufacturing would advance the minimum wage too. So much to be gained.


I hope you're right. I'm afraid that the corporate globalists would tell the politicians that they just HAVE to have lower wages, in order to bring the jobs back.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You have your opinion about who is who and I mine.


This isn't a matter of opinion, however. There's a reality, just like the reality of President Obama's birth certificate. Believe what you want, but at least have good reasons.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The dollar is not going to collapse because a country(-ies) rebel. The dollar would have to lose investers' confidence as a safe harbor. A default on our debts would do this. Attention Close Down the Gummint GOP.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> One thing to keep in mind about bring the jobs back home; the other country's rely on those dollars to buy oil. Without "dollars", they can't purchase oil. Read about the petrodollar. If we take away their ability to get dollars, they will rebel against the dollar being the international currency. When that happens the dollar will collapse. I believe its happening anyway but they're just delaying it. All things are interconnected. All decisions are based upon what is best for the 1%. They are already making plans for an international currency. A one world government with a one world currency. Preparations are bring made but it will take time to put everything in place.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> Actually, no its a matter of fact not perception. It is what it is regardless of your conspiratorial mindset.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm glad that someone won't let go. Even more important than the legal side, is changing people's attitudes so that they will report the abuse. It seems that "don't ask, don't tell" has more than one meaning in the military. We need to encourage both men and women to report and stop this evil!


They report and the military has covered up to protect the guilty.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you unaware that KPG has used many identities for quite sometime? Who do you think you're foolin?



soloweygirl said:


> PULEEESE! VocalLisa has other identities that date back before 1/4/14. She hasn't fooled anyone even you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you, I guess. Refresh my memory of examples, besides gay marriage which I recall as a primarily GOP issue.



soloweygirl said:


> Good for you. You've opened your mind and you're finally hearing what Republicans are saying. They have been saying this for years.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This appears to be a delusion on D&P's part. She isn't Cheeky. Cheeky has barely been around for family reasons. And she's not Ingried, who possibly has health issues.
> 
> I don't know why you people feel it necessary to conflate us. Could it be that there are more of us than you'd like?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Deregulation has caused a lot of trouble in the past. It is not a panacea.



soloweygirl said:


> This has been happening in a few states around the country. What also needs to be done is reduce the number of regulations on these new businesses so they can succeed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mountain Stitches said:


> I must be waaayyy lazier than you guys. When I have to put someone into a category, I just ask the person about their preference. Less brain strain.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Don't you usually refer to him as your evil twin? I get it, you're close but have different political philosophies?


Different brothers.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> Its interesting how when white people wish to desribe themselves as Irish/Italian/Polish-Americans no one ever tries to deny them that distinction if they so choose.
> 
> But when some black people wish to acknowlege THEIR ancestry .... suddenly the whole process of recognizing one's cultue is bad?
> 
> A group of people should be called whatever the heck they wish to be called.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I can also see the advantage of sharing cultural history.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ah, my father always used to say, 'the answer is frequently in the question.' ' What were you thinking?' Answer: You weren't thinking.

The reason for the paranoia comes from the fact that many people have no ability for critical thought. Voila.



VocalLisaO3 said:


> I certainly understand where some of the paranoia is coming from but there are some obvious distinctions that anyone with even a kindergarden level of socratic thinking should be able to discern between certain people.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> The dollar is not going to collapse because a country(-ies) rebel. The dollar would have to lose investers' confidence as a safe harbor. A default on our debts would do this. Attention Close Down the Gummint GOP.


Other countries ARE the investors. They trade for and invest in "dollars" because it is the international monetary unit. They need "dollars" to buy oil and everything else. EXCEPT that many countries are already rebelling and trading in alternative currencies. China, Russia and Japan have been dumping their treasury bonds (dollars) like crazy. Iran has agreed to sell them oil for gold and yuan. When they've decided they no longer need the dollar, they will continue to divest. If they all divest at once, the dollar crashes and they lose their money too. So they're getting out slowly. Hence, the federal reserve's printing presses are on overdrive. We used to borrow most of our money from China. They're no longer buying t bills so the fed is making up the difference.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> I think it's racist to require people to ignore their unique characteristics in order for us to all get along.
> 
> What is divisive is people UNWILLINGNESS to respect and learn from Others differences.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Agree 100%


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I vote for respect, equality, equal work for equal pay, equal opportunity, equal responsibility in the home and child care......aren't you sorry I got started? Sorry.



VocalLisaO3 said:


> Just a question. Should we be gender-blind too?
> 
> Should we all ignore that there is male and female and just pretend we're all androgynous? Or should we celebrate our differences and make sure both are treated with equal respect and dignity?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks. Glad SQM has one good one.



Poor Purl said:


> Different brothers.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Interesting thought.



VocalLisaO3 said:


> But I suppose if one likes to pretend that black people don't even WANT unique identities it may follow that they do the same to us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> It's ironic they have their own "shape shifter" and are seemingly clueless about it.


Or they wish to appear innocent of that which they accuse others? Ain't buying it.

I think this also illustrates my problem with "Why can't we just get along? " Not everyone is in the real world and truth is a wobbly concept.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> But I suppose if one likes to pretend that black people don't even WANT unique identities it may follow that they do the same to us.


Everyone of us, regardless of color has a unique identity. "I" wasn't the one ignoring their uniqueness! You were! You started by speaking of "all " blacks. Then you backed away and said, that you should have said "most". You cannot and should not presume that you know what people think or feel, based upon the color of their skin! THAT is what I've been saying all along! Do not twist my words!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Don't you usually refer to him as your evil twin? I get it, you're close but have different political philosophies?


Two bros. One is my twin, the other almost 4 years older.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarcasm alert.



VocalLisaO3 said:


> I'm with you.
> 
> But hey, if we pretend that women are no different from men, maybe that'll make sexism disappear like magic!!! Then we wont have to expend energy fixing something that doesn't exist.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO3 said:


> I suppose when you have crazy people threatening to shut down the govenment rather than vote to pay our own bills, counties are bound to lose confidence and invest elsewhere.


This is an inflammatory comment and is irrelevant to the issue. China, Japan and Russia are selling their treasury bills because we have too much debt and can never pay it off. They don't want to get stuck with worthless peices of paper. The massive sell offs have been in recent months and have nothing to do with the govt shutdown.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Purl told me. Age old memory. Glad you have one sibling to converse with pleasantly.



SQM said:


> Two bros. One is my twin, the other almost 4 years older.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Thanks. Glad SQM has one good one.


Both are actually good only one is a Republican.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My prejudice proceeds me.


SQM said:


> Both are actually good only one is a Republican.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why can't they just be called an American? Why do Americans need to be divided into groups? It's more like a new age segregation. If they are US citizens or naturalized, then they are Americans. We don't need to be something else before we are Americans.
> 
> Bratty said maybe he should be classified as an American with Jamaican roots. Maybe that's how all should be classified. American first, then their ancestry. (I know Bratty, I should have warned you that I agreed with you. Twice in one week. Amazing.) :wink: :wink:


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I've always thought that the key lies in knowing each other as individuals.


Right on, Dame.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Or they wish to appear innocent of that which they accuse others? Ain't buying it.
> 
> I think this also illustrates my problem with "Why can't we just get along? " Not everyone is in the real world and truth is a wobbly concept.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalisaO3 said:


> Says the person who just said "I know what they think!"
> 
> I am merely relaying what MOST of them have been saying that white people like you ignore because you'd rather be color blind so you don't have to notice when you're insulting your own daughter in law.


I'd still like to know when you talked with "most of them". Where did you get this "most of them"? To my knowledge, nobody has surveyed " most of them". I think you either heard it on TV, read it online or pulled it out of thin air! Just because you say something, doesn't make it true! I never said " I know what they think"! YOU said that! I said I knew they didn't ALL think that! And that is a fact! It isn't what I think! No one should presume to think they know what anyone else wants, including you!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalisaO3 said:


> We've had "too much debt" for decades.
> 
> What's changed is that the GOP has been making this country look like mentally unstable freaks and THAT is what is now really freaking out other countries in response.


Ah, yes! "Too much debt"! The problem isn't anybody making us look like anything. The problem is that our debt has risen to the point that we could never pay it back! Our creditors know this. On January 20, 2009, when Obama took office, our national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08. As of now it is $17,505,733,299,330.95. As you can see, in just over five years, our debt has increased over 7 TRILLION dollars. So don't kid yourself! It has nothing to do with anything but spending more than we have! Any individual or country who spends more than they could ever pay back, must eventually go bankrupt! We're almost there. Our creditors have started cutting off our credit. Just because " we've had too much debt for decades " doesn't mean that we can keep racking up more. Heres a link to an infographic that allows you to visualize this debt. It is astounding!
http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Granted there are more gentile ways of saying it, but there's truth in the fact that Reagen ('deficits don't matter') started the series, and the Bushes nailed it with a series of Gulf Wars. I object to placing the deficit in President Obama's lap.



VocalisaO3 said:


> All due to the wars he got us into, one in particular.under nefarios circumstances.
> 
> As I said before Righties crapped on white House lawn and then complain the Dems aren't picking up the shit fast enough.
> 
> Bottom line is weve had a big debt issue for decades but we always maimtained full faith and credit until the crazy freaks started to close down government instead of paying our bills . THAT is when ww couldnt be trusted anymore.


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## sallycarr (Nov 5, 2013)

.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

I see we have a new troll


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> I see we have a new troll


Who???? Please tell, I am a little slow in detecting these things. Not me, I hope? :?:


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Who???? Please tell, I am a little slow in detecting these things. Not me, I hope? :?:


sent you a pm


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is an inflammatory comment and is irrelevant to the issue. China, Japan and Russia are selling their treasury bills because we have too much debt and can never pay it off. They don't want to get stuck with worthless peices of paper. The massive sell offs have been in recent months and have nothing to do with the govt shutdown.


Knitter from Nebraska
I resent it that you have so little or no confidence in us. We more than pay our debt, ALWAYS.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I resent it that you have so little or no confidence in us. We more than pay our debt, ALWAYS.


Howdy Huck

Sadly we are greatly in debt to China. And if they decide to call in the debt, we are sunk. Did you ever question why many of the things we buy come from China? I am sure that was part of the condition of their loan to us. Neb's comments have little to do with confidence or beliefs. Just scary facts.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary
are your Cacti blooming? Ours are not.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah, yes! "Too much debt"! The problem isn't anybody making us look like anything. The problem is that our debt has risen to the point that we could never pay it back! Our creditors know this. On January 20, 2009, when Obama took office, our national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08. As of now it is $17,505,733,299,330.95. As you can see, in just over five years, our debt has increased over 7 TRILLION dollars. So don't kid yourself! It has nothing to do with anything but spending more than we have! Any individual or country who spends more than they could ever pay back, must eventually go bankrupt! We're almost there. Our creditors have started cutting off our credit. Just because " we've had too much debt for decades " doesn't mean that we can keep racking up more. Heres a link to an infographic that allows you to visualize this debt. It is astounding!
> http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html


Knitter from Nebraska
"never pay it back"? Really? Just watch us.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Howdy Huck
> 
> Sadly we are greatly in debt to China. And if they decide to call in the debt, we are sunk. Did you ever question why many of the things we buy come from China? I am sure that was part of the condition of their loan to us. Neb's comments have little to do with confidence or beliefs. Just scary facts.


Neb's comments have much to do with the beliefs of some right-wing economists. They are not necessarily fact.

A different view is that it's a good thing for nations to be in debt because it allows them to spend money when it's needed to solve problems - since a nation's debt doesn't have to paid off by a particular date, it can keep running without our children or grandchildren having to pay it all back. This is not the same as for a family, which has at least a date when the debt must be paid back or, as people die, the debt is called in by the bank.

When I sent her an article on this, she dismissed it as old-fashioned Keynesian economics. Well, it was old-fashioned Keynesian economics that got us through the Great Depression and kept us prosperous through the 50s, 60s, and 70s, until Reagan changed the rules and started the fall of the middle class.

And apparently it's old-fashioned Keynesian economics that's getting Japan out of its slump, which has been going on for decades (Japan Shows Keynes Is Right and Austerity Is Wrong, http://www.cepr.net/index.php/op-eds-&-columns/op-eds-&-columns/japan-shows-keynes-is-right-and-austerity-is-wrong ).

I don't even pretend to know much about economics, but I'm guessing, by the way she continues to repeat herself, Nebraska doesn't know much, either.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd still like to know when you talked with "most of them". Where did you get this "most of them"? To my knowledge, nobody has surveyed " most of them". I think you either heard it on TV, read it online or pulled it out of thin air! Just because you say something, doesn't make it true! I never said " I know what they think"! YOU said that! I said I knew they didn't ALL think that! And that is a fact! It isn't what I think! No one should presume to think they know what anyone else wants, including you!


I don't know whether you've ever lived in a major city, but I have all my life, and I can guarantee that most black people have been getting short shrift. There are still black neighborhoods, like Harlem, whose residents are mostly poor, crime is rampant, and where young men go into the drug business because they can't get decent jobs anywhere. Have you ever heard or read about black men being followed around in stores by people who think they - and never white men - will shoplift? I've heard hundreds of such stories, and they show without doubt that racism is alive and well.

Your contact with your dil and her mother can't tell you what's happening to those young black men because they don't live it. Until you've spent a lot of time in inner cities, you have no way of knowing how the great majority of black people think.

I think there are certain things we _can_ presume about how other people think: they want to be allowed to live in peace, safely, without being preyed upon by outsiders but most especially by their own people, who have been forced into criminality by their environment. They would like the same kind of life most white people have automatically. To deny that racism exists is to deny them that possibility.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is an inflammatory comment and is irrelevant to the issue. China, Japan and Russia are selling their treasury bills because we have too much debt and can never pay it off. They don't want to get stuck with worthless peices of paper. The massive sell offs have been in recent months and have nothing to do with the govt shutdown.


Cuppa tea anyone?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Is a website called "Demonocracy" to be expected to have impartial opinions?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah, yes! "Too much debt"! The problem isn't anybody making us look like anything. The problem is that our debt has risen to the point that we could never pay it back! Our creditors know this. On January 20, 2009, when Obama took office, our national debt was $10,626,877,048,913.08. As of now it is $17,505,733,299,330.95. As you can see, in just over five years, our debt has increased over 7 TRILLION dollars. So don't kid yourself! It has nothing to do with anything but spending more than we have! Any individual or country who spends more than they could ever pay back, must eventually go bankrupt! We're almost there. Our creditors have started cutting off our credit. Just because " we've had too much debt for decades " doesn't mean that we can keep racking up more. Heres a link to an infographic that allows you to visualize this debt. It is astounding!
> http://demonocracy.info/infographics/usa/us_debt/us_debt.html


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Cuppa tea anyone?


Thanks, Cindy, for trying to calm us all down.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sallycarr said:


> .


sallycarr
how did you find out wthat he thinks? I am curious.


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Cuppa tea anyone?


Oh dear does the tea come from China


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> Oh dear does the tea come from China


Could be, but it seems someone is having a tea party in Nebraska.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> sallycarr
> how did you find out wthat he thinks? I am curious.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> PULEEESE! VocalLisa has other identities that date back before 1/4/14. She hasn't fooled anyone even you.


PULEEEESE, give it a rest.What is all this BS about people having more than one identity here?Surely you have more interesting things to do. What a waste of time to try to identify all, if any, other usernames people have. They still say what they want to say, and you can still respond to them as you please.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> PULEEEESE, give it a rest.What is all this BS about people having more than one identity here?Surely you have more interesting things to do. What a waste of time to try to identify all, if any, other usernames people have. They still say what they want to say, and you can still respond to them as you please.


Thats the problem, people come on here with so many user names, how can we take them seriously, I think there is a troll online right now, some names that already have been deleted by Admin for their aggressiveness, and some names that are just lying dormant as they have taken up a new name. But the best part is they all are politically motivated, by the same person, I dont think they can even knit/crochet/craft, and this is what this site was intended for.


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Could be, but it seems someone is having a tea party in Nebraska.


with the trolls no doubt


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Granted there are more gentile ways of saying it, but there's truth in the fact that Reagen ('deficits don't matter') started the series, and the Bushes nailed it with a series of Gulf Wars. I object to placing the deficit in President Obama's lap.


You are right! I shouldn't have suggested that it was Obama's fault. Its been an ongoing thing and all have contributed. It is however, getting much worse and no one on either side of the aisle is doing anything about it. He is the man in charge at present so the ball's in his court. The theory has always been that deficit spending and stimulus was good for the economy. But it isn't working. You can keep throwing money at the problem, but without jobs, workers aren't paying taxes. Without jobs, we spend even more on welfare food stamps and unemployment. The economy cannot come back without the jobs! We spent trillions on stimulus. But instead of putting it into the market place where it might generate jobs, it was given to the very bankers who bankrupted us. They (the federal reserve) printed the money and gave it to themselves to cover the bad loans that they made. We owe the money with interest. They own the property that was connected to the bad loans. Does that sound like a deal, or what? The theory behind it was that if we got the bad loans off the bank's books, they would then lend money to people to start new businesses. They didn't! Instead of loaning the money, they're betting it on derivatives. The derivative bubble is about to pop and that will make 2008 look like a picnic. Derivatives are purely gambling. When they lose, we will be held financially responsible. (Here's an older article talking about derivatives. I didn't want to search for a newer one, this came up first.). Its interesting.
http://moneymorning.com/2011/10/12/derivatives-the-600-trillion-time-bomb-thats-set-to-explode/
Anyway, history has proven that every nation that uses a fiat currency (one that's not backed by something real) collapses. Every one! We are nearing that point. The dollar has lost 90% of its value in the last 100 years. Soon, it will have no value at all.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> I resent it that you have so little or no confidence in us. We more than pay our debt, ALWAYS.


We borrow money to pay the interest on our debts. We aren't paying the debts themselves.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Howdy Huck
> 
> Sadly we are greatly in debt to China. And if they decide to call in the debt, we are sunk. Did you ever question why many of the things we buy come from China? I am sure that was part of the condition of their loan to us. Neb's comments have little to do with confidence or beliefs. Just scary facts.


Thanks, SQM! I really don't mean anything personal by any of it. You're right about the deals with China. That's one of the reasons the jobs won't come back.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> with the trolls no doubt


In no way do I consider Knitter from Nebraska a troll.....her remarks are well thought out and well presented. While I don't agree with her most of the time, she does make me think.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> "never pay it back"? Really? Just watch us.


Just watch us? We're borrowing just to pay the interest. Our work force is declining. We have more money going out then coming in and trillions in stimulus did nothing to help. How are we gonna pay it back?


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> In no way do I consider Knitter from Nebraska a troll.....her remarks are well thought out and well presented. While I don't agree with her most of the time, she does make me think.


No not her, but some of the users she is corresponding with, sorry to misguide you.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Neb's comments have much to do with the beliefs of some right-wing economists. They are not necessarily fact.
> 
> A different view is that it's a good thing for nations to be in debt because it allows them to spend money when it's needed to solve problems - since a nation's debt doesn't have to paid off by a particular date, it can keep running without our children or grandchildren having to pay it all back. This is not the same as for a family, which has at least a date when the debt must be paid back or, as people die, the debt is called in by the bank.
> 
> ...


I don't pretend to be an expert. But I've been reading about this stuff for a while now. The theory behind Keynesian economics is that you can manipulate economies using interest rates, inflation etc... Simply put, if you lower interest rates, people will borrow and build, the economy grows. The government borrows money at a higher rate and loans it at lower rates. When people are borrowing too much, they raise the interest rates. These manipulations cause inflation to go up or down so this is taken into account as well. They've always thought they could control things in this manner. It isn't working anymore partly because, the banks are borrowing the money from the government at 0% and instead of putting it back into the economy, are betting it all on derivatives. Money is going out, nothing is coming in. This is a very simplistic explanation. I really hope that you'll read about it yourself.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> No not her, but some of the users she is corresponding with, sorry to misguide you.


   no problem


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> This part of the sight is not for knitting, and if these people
> are using different names isn't it pretty obious they could be using another name in the knitting areas to avoid conflict. Why you would presume those people cant knit while you admit you dont know why is who is quite illogical.
> 
> So is the presumption the it's all the same person. Given that we know KPG uses her own aliases, THAT doesnt make sense either.


I do not wish to answer you.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I don't know whether you've ever lived in a major city, but I have all my life, and I can guarantee that most black people have been getting short shrift. There are still black neighborhoods, like Harlem, whose residents are mostly poor, crime is rampant, and where young men go into the drug business because they can't get decent jobs anywhere. Have you ever heard or read about black men being followed around in stores by people who think they - and never white men - will shoplift? I've heard hundreds of such stories, and they show without doubt that racism is alive and well.
> 
> Your contact with your dil and her mother can't tell you what's happening to those young black men because they don't live it. Until you've spent a lot of time in inner cities, you have no way of knowing how the great majority of black people think.
> 
> I think there are certain things we _can_ presume about how other people think: they want to be allowed to live in peace, safely, without being preyed upon by outsiders but most especially by their own people, who have been forced into criminality by their environment. They would like the same kind of life most white people have automatically. To deny that racism exists is to deny them that possibility.


I think you can presume that people who have had similar experiences, feel similarly. I don't presume to know how they feel. But that still doesn't mean that they all want to be treated the same. I've never, ever denied that racism exists! I only said that some black people want to be treated just like everybody else. Vocal is a was twisting my words to make it sound like I'd said something I didn't! I only ever said that you shouldn't presume anything based upon a person's race. Every person deserves to be treated as an individual, not a group.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Cuppa tea anyone?


Yes, please!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Is a website called "Demonocracy" to be expected to have impartial opinions?


There is no opinion! It shows a picture of stacks of money! Who cares who shows you the picture? That's all it is!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, please!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Could be, but it seems someone is having a tea party in Nebraska.


I don't understand. Is it wrong to discuss things? I thought we'd already had this conversation. Is sharing not welcome? I've not called anybody names. I've not pushed my opinions on anyone. I shared facts. Is it OK to treat black people differently? Is the economy not in the crapper? What do you object to? Are you suggesting that because you've not heard these things before, I must be a crazy teapartier? I've always thought that it was a good thing to hear new ideas. I've even gotten some on here, from people I wouldn't generally agree with.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Oops! Double post!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand. Is it wrong to discuss things? I thought we'd already had this conversation. Is sharing not welcome? I've not called anybody names. I've not pushed my opinions on anyone. I shared facts. Is it OK to treat black people differently? Is the economy not in the crapper? What do you object to? Are you suggesting that because you've not heard these things before, I must be a crazy teapartier? I've always thought that it was a good thing to hear new ideas. I've even gotten some on here, from people I wouldn't generally agree with.


 I enjoy your opinions even if I disagree. I never said I had not heard these things before, I disagree with your philosophies as I am sure you would disagree with mine. You may be the only sane tea partier I have ever encountered, you are at least willing to discuss differences.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> I enjoy your opinions even if I disagree. I never said I had not heard these things before, I disagree with your philosophies as I am sure you would disagree with mine. You may be the only same tea partier I have ever encountered, you are at least willing to discuss differences.


I'm not a tea partier! I attended TWO tea party meetings before it was taken over! I have nothing to do with them and they do not represent my views!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Because reliable sources matter to people interested in truth seeking.


Its a PICTURE! Not a source! It just shows you what trillions of dollars looks like!!!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> In no way do I consider Knitter from Nebraska a troll.....her remarks are well thought out and well presented. While I don't agree with her most of the time, she does make me think.


Thank you! It felt as if some were suggesting I were a troll. If that were true, I wouldn't have tried so hard to get people to discuss without disparagement. Its been a struggle to be able to share ideas.


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

Right, so who is going to put the kettle on, I will have 2 sugars please, with milk.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> No not her, but some of the users she is corresponding with, sorry to misguide you.


Thank you!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not a tea partier! I attended TWO tea party meetings before it was taken over! I have nothing to do with them and they do not represent my views!


My apologies for misunderstanding


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> This part of the sight is not for knitting, and if these people
> are using different names isn't it pretty obious they could be using another name in the knitting areas to avoid conflict. Why you would presume those people cant knit while you admit you dont know why is who is quite illogical.
> 
> So is the presumption the it's all the same person. Given that we know KPG uses her own aliases, THAT doesnt make sense either.


"THESE PEOPLE" ?!? REALLY?!?


----------



## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

What happened to VocalLisa03, suspended I suppose.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> Right, so who is going to put the kettle on, I will have 2 sugars please, with milk.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Teaparty was never "taken over" The Koch brothers had been creating these pseudo grass roots orginizations long before 2008. You just didnt know (and apparantly still dont) that you were being played from the beginning.


Oh! And you would know because you were there? Ron Paul started the tea party movement! People brought their lawn chairs to the park and took turns speaking! It was not organized! After that it was taken over and USED for political purposes on BOTH sides of the aisle!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> What happened to VocalLisa03, suspended I suppose.


Yes but she still has at least two plebians on back up!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> I agree that your not a troll and that youve made some efforts to discuss things differently.


Thank you!
(but I think they were talking about you)


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Gotta go! Be back later!


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Maybe. Sometimes it has to do with what device I'm using at the time.
> 
> But yes VocalLisa+++++ will likely keep getting erased. Im glad you're finally catching on to happenings that have been going on for weeks now. Better late than never I suppose.


I have been watching you for months. We arent all stupid


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## Cyber Granny (Sep 30, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Aparently you are since you just asked such a stupid question.


That exactly why people dont like you, you are a nasty piece of work.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't pretend to be an expert. But I've been reading about this stuff for a while now. The theory behind Keynesian economics is that you can manipulate economies using interest rates, inflation etc... Simply put, if you lower interest rates, people will borrow and build, the economy grows. The government borrows money at a higher rate and loans it at lower rates. When people are borrowing too much, they raise the interest rates. These manipulations cause inflation to go up or down so this is taken into account as well. They've always thought they could control things in this manner. It isn't working anymore partly because, the banks are borrowing the money from the government at 0% and instead of putting it back into the economy, are betting it all on derivatives. Money is going out, nothing is coming in. This is a very simplistic explanation. I really hope that you'll read about it yourself.


Okay, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as the govt continues to give banks loans at 0%, the economy will stay stuck. Esp. since the banks are paying their depositors next to nothing, too, so that the only way for anyone to get a return is by playing in the Wall St. casino, where I think a few win big and the rest lose everything. Keeping money at 0% is hardly manipulating it. But raising it will cause inflation - though there already is inflation in everything but bank rates.

Still, I doubt that we're on the course you seem so certain leads to total annihilation.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> I do not wish to answer you.


Don't you think it's rude to accuse someone of being a troll and escape consequences by refusing to answer her?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you can presume that people who have had similar experiences, feel similarly. I don't presume to know how they feel. But that still doesn't mean that they all want to be treated the same. I've never, ever denied that racism exists! I only said that some black people want to be treated just like everybody else. Vocal is a was twisting my words to make it sound like I'd said something I didn't! I only ever said that you shouldn't presume anything based upon a person's race. Every person deserves to be treated as an individual, not a group.


But the authorities both cannot and will not treat people as individuals. That's up to other individuals. What you _can_ presume based on people's race is that there's a very high probability that they've been treated similarly by people in authority. This won't change until it's made obvious to everybody that racism continues.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> There is no opinion! It shows a picture of stacks of money! Who cares who shows you the picture? That's all it is!


It's very cute, but I don't see any point to it. Of course all that money seems monumental if placed next to a single person.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand. Is it wrong to discuss things? I thought we'd already had this conversation. Is sharing not welcome? I've not called anybody names. I've not pushed my opinions on anyone. I shared facts. Is it OK to treat black people differently? Is the economy not in the crapper? What do you object to? Are you suggesting that because you've not heard these things before, I must be a crazy teapartier? I've always thought that it was a good thing to hear new ideas. I've even gotten some on here, from people I wouldn't generally agree with.


Don't worry. Cindy is a perfectly nice person who sometimes jokes.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't worry. Cindy is a perfectly nice person who sometimes jokes.


Watch it Poor Purl, you are going to destroy my reputation!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not a tea partier! I attended TWO tea party meetings before it was taken over! I have nothing to do with them and they do not represent my views!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> What happened to VocalLisa03, suspended I suppose.


Yes, so she gets on wearing an obvious disguise in order to continue to converse. She knows that overnight admin will delete her newest account. It's not as though she's trying to fool anyone.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

I'll volunteer to be troll-of-week to permit the rest of you engagement in more intellectual discussions. 10+ pages of arguing who is or is not a troll...zzzzz


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> That exactly why people dont like you, you are a nasty piece of work.


You begin by insulting someone, and when she answers you in kind, you call her "a nasty piece of work"? I like VocalLisa because she's well-informed, can argue logically, and shows compassion for people. How is that being a nasty piece of work?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Watch it Poor Purl, you are going to destroy my reputation!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> I'll volunteer to be troll-of-week to permit the rest of you engagement in more intellectual discussions. 10+ pages of arguing who is or is not a troll...zzzzz


You're right. And what a sacrifice it is!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maryann1701 said:


> Right, so who is going to put the kettle on, I will have 2 sugars please, with milk.


maryann1701
I volunteer and use the 100 year old Tea Kettle hanging over an open fire and will supply fresh Lemon Juice to flavor the Tea.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> I enjoy your opinions even if I disagree. I never said I had not heard these things before, I disagree with your philosophies as I am sure you would disagree with mine. You may be the only sane tea partier I have ever encountered, you are at least willing to discuss differences.


The Tea Party would in no way endorse Neb's theories. Trust me, she is more on the left with her thinking than on the right.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as the govt continues to give banks loans at 0%, the economy will stay stuck. Esp. since the banks are paying their depositors next to nothing, too, so that the only way for anyone to get a return is by playing in the Wall St. casino, where I think a few win big and the rest lose everything. Keeping money at 0% is hardly manipulating it. But raising it will cause inflation - though there already is inflation in everything but bank rates.
> 
> Still, I doubt that we're on the course you seem so certain leads to total annihilation.


Maybe not total annihilation but it is a global economy and if one country even begins to sink financially, the rest will totter. Just leave out the Apocalyptic thinking and focus on a country whose financial system is based on pure paper.

Neb. has every right to post here without anyone slamming her. Some go for her jugular each time she posts. Open up your minds for a moment and consider her possibilities before posting.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, so she gets on wearing an obvious disguise in order to continue to converse. She knows that overnight admin will delete her newest account. It's not as though she's trying to fool anyone.


Overnight admin????? Does that mean the Ostrich does the day shift and an owl works at night?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe not total annihilation but it is a global economy and if one country even begins to sink financially, the rest will totter. Just leave out the Apocalyptic thinking and focus on a country whose financial system is based on pure paper.
> 
> Neb. has every right to post here without anyone slamming her. Some go for her jugular each time she posts. Open up your minds for a moment and consider her possibilities before posting.


Who's slamming her? I have considered her possibilities and I don't believe they're possible. And the global economy has more to do with trade than with the economies of individual nations. Look what happened to the euro countries when Greek went under: nothing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Overnight admin????? Does that mean the Ostrich does the day shift and an owl works at night?


It's only the Ostrich. By the time s/he pulls his/her beak out of the sand, it's night.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Who's slamming her? I have considered her possibilities and I don't believe they're possible. And the global economy has more to do with trade than with the economies of individual nations. Look what happened to the euro countries when Greek went under: nothing.


Not quite nothing. Fascistic groups are taking over Europe because of its poor economy. And Greece is not a world-player. But if I recall, other countries were indeed floundering at the same time - maybe someone can remind me of which they were.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maryann1701 said:


> Thats the problem, people come on here with so many user names, how can we take them seriously, I think there is a troll online right now, some names that already have been deleted by Admin for their aggressiveness, and some names that are just lying dormant as they have taken up a new name. But the best part is they all are politically motivated, by the same person, I dont think they can even knit/crochet/craft, and this is what this site was intended for.


I just don't think this is a problem. What someone says isn't any less serious if they have only one identity. You can take them seriously or not. If you think a certain KP member is a troll, tell Admin who doesn't like trolls anymore than the rest of us. Yes, there are some political topics in General Chit-Chat and you are probably correct in thinking that some people participate in those and those only and don't knit or crochet. It sems a bit sad to me that someone would pick a place like KP, which is a very lewasant website, to indulge in their political and sometimes religious interests.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Not quite nothing. Fascistic groups are taking over Europe because of its poor economy. And Greece is not a world-player. But if I recall, other countries were indeed floundering at the same time - maybe someone can remind me of which they were.


Ireland, for one. Italy, IIRC. But Germany is fine.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

maybe someone can remind me of which they were.[/quote]

This part of your post sounds like someone else prior. Does anyone know of whom I speak?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

If Roe vs.Wade is ever overturned there'll be a lot more abortions in unsafe and unsanitary places and a lot more women dying from unsafe procedures.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> maybe someone can remind me of which they were.


This part of your post sounds like someone else prior. Does anyone know of whom I speak?[/quote]I think I do, but you will never know that of whom I am thinking.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I think I do, but you will never know that of whom I am thinking.


Strange topic and sentence. Thanks for not ending it with a preposition.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe not total annihilation but it is a global economy and if one country even begins to sink financially, the rest will totter. Just leave out the Apocalyptic thinking and focus on a country whose financial system is based on pure paper.
> 
> Neb. has every right to post here without anyone slamming her. Some go for her jugular each time she posts. Open up your minds for a moment and consider her possibilities before posting.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Regarding KIN -She has opinions but I think her posts are very insightful, and I think she is honestly trying to have a conversation. She expresses herself well, and I think she is the real deal. Takes a lot of courage to be a lone voice - I think it is good that she has come here and wants a conversation. She is strong in her opinions, but then so are we.

I find her very interesting.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Strange topic and sentence. Thanks for not ending it with a preposition.


The sentence may look strange to you, but it's a common structure on at least one thread.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Why are there so many deaths now? Could it be the "unsafe and unsanitary places" and " unsafe procedures?"


Absolutely since the right is working hard to deny hospital privileges to doctors who do abortions. And since the right has killed a number of these doctors, women are forced to have it done it unsafe and unsanitary places.

As much as you wish otherwise, women throughout time have always gotten abortions and will always continue to do so. The question is whether or not they will be safe.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> The sentence may look strange to you, but it's a common structure on at least one thread.


A-Foe?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> She has opinions but I think her posts are very insightful, and I think she is honestly trying to have a conversation. She expresses herself well, and I think she is the real deal. Takes a lot of courage to be a lone voice - I think it is good that she has come here and wants a conversation. She is strong in her opinions, but then so are we.


She is not a lone voice - mine blends in until it gets too faith-based then off I climb up into the canopy thinking about why there is something instead of nothing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Strange topic and sentence. Thanks for not ending it with a preposition.


As for your second sentence, Winston Churchill: This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> As for your second sentence, Winston Churchill: This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.


Where do you find these little tidbits? He was funnnnnny.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> A-Foe?


דנים ופנינות, of course.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as the govt continues to give banks loans at 0%, the economy will stay stuck. Esp. since the banks are paying their depositors next to nothing, too, so that the only way for anyone to get a return is by playing in the Wall St. casino, where I think a few win big and the rest lose everything. Keeping money at 0% is hardly manipulating it. But raising it will cause inflation - though there already is inflation in everything but bank rates.
> 
> Still, I doubt that we're on the course you seem so certain leads to total annihilation.


I know that I don't always give enough information to make my point. I'm trying to keep my posts as short as possible or nobody will want to read them. Putting interest rates at zero is manipulation because the government pays more than that to borrow it in the first place. In other words, you and I are subsidizing multi national banks and multi national corporations. They, then bet that money on derivatives. Here's an interesting article that explains what derivatives are.
http://www.toobighasfailed.org/2013/04/24/dangerous-derivatives/


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Where do you find these little tidbits? He was funnnnnny.


In that memory I have that is full of useless bits of speeches, complete lyrics to advertising jingles, songs from the 20s and 30s, etc.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> דנים ופנינות, of course.


I need vowels.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> In that memory I have that is full of useless bits of speeches, complete lyrics to advertising jingles, songs from the 20s and 30s, etc.


My Evil Republican Twin has the same sort of mind. Savants.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I know that I don't always give enough information to make my point. I'm trying to keep my posts as short as possible or nobody will want to read them. Putting interest rates at zero is manipulation because the government pays more than that to borrow it in the first place. In other words, you and I are subsidizing multi national banks and multi national corporations. They, then bet that money on derivatives. Here's an interesting article that explains what derivatives are.
> http://www.toobighasfailed.org/2013/04/24/dangerous-derivatives/


I was forced to learn about derivatives in 2008, as everybody should have been. They are truly the invention of the devil, or the bankers, which comes to the same thing. Thanks for the link, anyway.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> דנים ופנינות, of course.


You're going to have to clue me in on this one. I didn't go to Hebrew school after regular school. Our town was too small, which of course, was just one reason. So, poor me. I just have to be content with my knowledge of Yiddish, with which I cannot enter into too many meaningful conversations. But prior to your response I'll try to figure it out.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I need vowels.


Oh, did she post consonants only? If so, that should give a good clue.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Regarding KIN -She has opinions but I think her posts are very insightful, and I think she is honestly trying to have a conversation. She expresses herself well, and I think she is the real deal. Takes a lot of courage to be a lone voice - I think it is good that she has come here and wants a conversation. She is strong in her opinions, but then so are we.
> 
> I find her very interesting.


And she's a good egg!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Oh, did she post consonants only? If so, that should give a good clue.


Only consonants. The vowels would be little dashes and dots below the letters. Ms. Purl needs to put in the vowels, us a large font and then maybe I can figure this puzzle out.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I need vowels.


Okay, I'll see what I can find.

*דֶנִים וּפְּנִינוֹת*. Can you make it out now?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Only consonants. The vowels would be little dashes and dots below the letters. Ms. Purl needs to put in the vowels, us a large font and then maybe I can figure this puzzle out.


Have to leave for awhile.
Latergators
SQM solve the puzzle while I'm gone


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Oh, did she post consonants only? If so, that should give a good clue.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And she's a good egg!


That she is! I've never met anyone so forgiving and so eager to explain herself.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> But the authorities both cannot and will not treat people as individuals. That's up to other individuals. What you _can_ presume based on people's race is that there's a very high probability that they've been treated similarly by people in authority. This won't change until it's made obvious to everybody that racism continues.


This discussion has jumped the track. My ONLY premise was that, not all black people think or feel the same way. I still stand behind that statement. VL has been trying to twist my comments to make me out as a racist. I treat people as individuals, regardless of race. She thinks I need to treat black people differently than any other race. I disagree. She can try to twist my words but my premise remains the same. You can't presume you know what a person thinks or feels based upon their race!

That said, not all black people have had the same experiences. Not all black people live in the ghetto either. My heart goes out to the ones who are discriminated against. Those who are warehoused in housing projects and made to feel that they can never get out. Omaha has been working on eliminating housing projects. They've instituted "scattered site housing" throughout the city. The city housing dept is buying houses throughout the city and placing people in apartments throughout the city. In my opinion, this is where our tax dollars should be going. In my opinion, putting people in housing projects and giving them welfare and food stamps isn't helping them at all. Its keeping them down and controlling them. I want to see them succeed. I want them to be independent. I am not saying we shouldn't take care of people. I'm saying we should make it possible for them to take care of themselves.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'll see what I can find.
> 
> *דֶנִים וּפְּנִינוֹת*. Can you make it out now?


Deh-Neem v P'knee note Don't know what that means and Al wants to know. An inquiring mind.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Deh-Neem v P'knee note Don't know what that means and Al wants to know. An inquiring mind.


Here it is bigger, I think. I'll explain it to Al, and maybe to you, too. I couldn't get the bigger letters to save, so I saved this instead.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> The Tea Party would in no way endorse Neb's theories. Trust me, she is more on the left with her thinking than on the right.


Oh, no! I'm actually very conservative! Maybe you're more conservative than you think.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, no! I'm actually very conservative! Maybe you're more conservative than you think.


You may be very conservative in other parts of your thinking, but you are not with your understanding of Capitalism. Read the first part of Marx's Capital. You will see how strikingly alike your ideas are. If you were born and reared in New York City, I think you would have been a totally different kind of thinker. I know you are self- taught - which shows how smart you are. What would a secular Nebs write about? (ended sentence with prep.)


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Maybe not total annihilation but it is a global economy and if one country even begins to sink financially, the rest will totter. Just leave out the Apocalyptic thinking and focus on a country whose financial system is based on pure paper.
> 
> Neb. has every right to post here without anyone slamming her. Some go for her jugular each time she posts. Open up your minds for a moment and consider her possibilities before posting.


Thanks, SQM! Alas, I must stay true to myself. I DO believe that we are headed toward a financial "annihilliation", of sorts. I think that things have gone too far and can only be delayed, not stopped. I wish I didn't think it. I wish I could put that genie back in the bottle but I can't. I wish that all of my friends were mentally and physically prepared for what I think is coming. I wish I didn't think it!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Who's slamming her? I have considered her possibilities and I don't believe they're possible. And the global economy has more to do with trade than with the economies of individual nations. Look what happened to the euro countries when Greek went under: nothing.


Yet! In my opinion, it is yet to come. Isn't it bad enough that the Greek people were starving? That their government allowed their banks to steal their money out of their bank accounts? That OUR government has since, passed a law that will allow OUR banks to steal our money? Yup! Neither the FDIC or our government has enough money to bail out the banks again(due to derivatives). So they passed a new law saying that if the banks go under, they can take our money! Depositors are no longer considered depositors. They are now considered creditors. Stand behind the 1% to get your money back!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Not quite nothing. Fascistic groups are taking over Europe because of its poor economy. And Greece is not a world-player. But if I recall, other countries were indeed floundering at the same time - maybe someone can remind me of which they were.


Greece, Spain and Portugal.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This discussion has jumped the track. My ONLY premise was that, not all black people think or feel the same way. I still stand behind that statement. VL has been trying to twist my comments to make me out as a racist. I treat people as individuals, regardless of race. She thinks I need to treat black people differently than any other race. I disagree. She can try to twist my words but my premise remains the same. You can't presume you know what a person thinks or feels based upon their race!
> 
> That said, not all black people have had the same experiences. Not all black people live in the ghetto either. My heart goes out to the ones who are discriminated against. Those who are warehoused in housing projects and made to feel that they can never get out. Omaha has been working on eliminating housing projects. They've instituted "scattered site housing" throughout the city. The city housing dept is buying houses throughout the city and placing people in apartments throughout the city. In my opinion, this is where our tax dollars should be going. In my opinion, putting people in housing projects and giving them welfare and food stamps isn't helping them at all. Its keeping them down and controlling them. I want to see them succeed. I want them to be independent. I am not saying we shouldn't take care of people. I'm saying we should make it possible for them to take care of themselves.


Lisa isn't trying to make you out to be a racist; she's simply emphatic about the need to admit that there are differences among groups, because in the great majority of cases, there are huge differences. It's the color-blind designation that bothers her, because it only makes things worse.

But it suddenly occurs to me that you and Lisa mean different things by "color-blind." I think you mean that a person shouldn't change her behavior to someone depending on the other person's color - you treat everyone alike, and your expectations are the same. It's a kind of retail attitude, dealing with individuals.

I believe that Lisa is taking the wholesale point of view: there are a lot of problems in the black community as a whole, going back to slavery times, and in many white people's dealings with black people, and we can't solve those if we don't pay attention to color.

You're both right. My next-door neighbor is a black woman who works for the United Nations on women's issues. Her refrigerator door is covered with photographs of her in different places. In most of them she is with black people (including a much younger Barack Obama). There's one of her standing behind Nelson Mandela when he took his oath of office, of which she was very proud, as I would have been. But we deal with each other as neighbors, not as one black person and two white people. Still, her work has mainly taken her to Africa, and she has a lot to say about black people's experiences there and here. My work has at times been mainly with black families, and we've often discussed our work.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

May I bring up a new war on women? The Cancer Industry. We all know that it must be a zillion dollar industry, globally. Why does the research focus seem to be on treatment rather than cure? How many people would lose their jobs if cancer was ever cured? How would a cancer cure affect our economy? ?????


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think I do, but you will never know that of whom I am thinking.


I'm thinking, I think I know of whom you're thinking you are thinking of.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Deh-Neem v P'knee note Don't know what that means and Al wants to know. An inquiring mind.


Yes, you got it; I probably should have made it all a transliteration.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
> 
> Regarding KIN -She has opinions but I think her posts are very insightful, and I think she is honestly trying to have a conversation. She expresses herself well, and I think she is the real deal. Takes a lot of courage to be a lone voice - I think it is good that she has come here and wants a conversation. She is strong in her opinions, but then so are we.
> 
> I find her very interesting.


Thanks Shirley! It IS a little lonely over here. :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> She is not a lone voice - mine blends in until it gets too faith-based then off I climb up into the canopy thinking about why there is something instead of nothing.


Ahahahaha! I'm trying to stay away from the "faith based" stuff. Haven't you noticed?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I was forced to learn about derivatives in 2008, as everybody should have been. They are truly the invention of the devil, or the bankers, which comes to the same thing. Thanks for the link, anyway.


Why were you forced? I agree with your description!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yet! In my opinion, it is yet to come. Isn't it bad enough that the Greek people were starving? That their government allowed their banks to steal their money out of their bank accounts? That OUR government has since, passed a law that will allow OUR banks to steal our money? Yup! Neither the FDIC or our government has enough money to bail out the banks again(due to derivatives). So they passed a new law saying that if the banks go under, they can take our money! Depositors are no longer considered depositors. They are now considered creditors. Stand behind the 1% to get your money back!


Gaack! Is there nothing the bankers won't demand, and nothing the pols won't give them?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> And she's a good egg!


Awwwww! Thank you!!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why were you forced? I agree with your description!


Just in order to understand news reports (which I finally began to understand better than the news readers). Nobody literally forced me.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, I'll see what I can find.
> 
> *דֶנִים וּפְּנִינוֹת*. Can you make it out now?


OK! I have absolutely nothing to say about this! Hahahaha! Now you know how to shut me up! :lol:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahaha! I'm trying to stay away from the "faith based" stuff. Haven't you noticed?


Your last sentences begin to veer in that direction. It's fine. It is just one suggestion of what the future holds.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That she is! I've never met anyone so forgiving and so eager to explain herself.


I cannot tell you how much it means to me to hear these compliments! I'll try real hard not to get a big head! :lol: 
No, really! Thank you!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Here it is bigger, I think. I'll explain it to Al, and maybe to you, too. I couldn't get the bigger letters to save, so I saved this instead.


Huh? You'd better explain it to me, too. A parrot?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Huh? You'd better explain it to me, too. A parrot?


When I tried to save the large Hebrew letters in a file, what I got instead was a bunch of files from the website where I found the letters. Only one of them was at all interesting, the parrot.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> You may be very conservative in other parts of your thinking, but you are not with your understanding of Capitalism. Read the first part of Marx's Capital. You will see how strikingly alike your ideas are. If you were born and reared in New York City, I think you would have been a totally different kind of thinker. I know you are self- taught - which shows how smart you are. What would a secular Nebs write about? (ended sentence with prep.)


I'm going to have to look into this! I couldn't possibly have anything in common with Marx! I believe in true capitalism, as opposed to crony capitalism. I believe that any sort of welfare is bad for the person receiving it and should only be done under absolutely necessary circumstances. I believe in freedom and independence. I believe that government should not pass laws just because they can. Laws should not only protect society but should protect the rights of individuals! I can't imagine that he thought ANY of those things!

I am self taught, but not so smart! For years I suffered with chemo brain. I couldn't even read and retain one sentence! I still have issues putting spoken thoughts together. I like being able to think before I write.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Lisa isn't trying to make you out to be a racist; she's simply emphatic about the need to admit that there are differences among groups, because in the great majority of cases, there are huge differences. It's the color-blind designation that bothers her, because it only makes things worse.
> 
> But it suddenly occurs to me that you and Lisa mean different things by "color-blind." I think you mean that a person shouldn't change her behavior to someone depending on the other person's color - you treat everyone alike, and your expectations are the same. It's a kind of retail attitude, dealing with individuals.
> 
> ...


Thank you, Purl! I think you're right. I was speaking of treating people as individuals and not making assumptions based upon race. It greives me to think that while so much has changed, so much remains the same.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, Purl! I think you're right. I was speaking of treating people as individuals and not making assumptions based upon race. It greives me to think that while so much has changed, so much remains the same.


I think it grieves so many of us, which is why we'd like to see change.

A question for your dil's mother, if you will accept it: What does she think about the weakening of the Voting Rights Act? Does it mean nothing to her, or something important?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> May I bring up a new war on women? The Cancer Industry. We all know that it must be a zillion dollar industry, globally. Why does the research focus seem to be on treatment rather than cure? How many people would lose their jobs if cancer was ever cured? How would a cancer cure affect our economy? ?????


EXACTLY!!! That's what I've been thinking for years! Just think of all the money raised by Komen alone! I don't think they want a cure! Or prevention!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Gaack! Is there nothing the bankers won't demand, and nothing the pols won't give them?


Absolutely nothing! They are owned! Bought and paid for!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Just in order to understand news reports (which I finally began to understand better than the news readers). Nobody literally forced me.


Oh! Same here!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Your last sentences begin to veer in that direction. It's fine. It is just one suggestion of what the future holds.


Huh? I'm slow!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> When I tried to save the large Hebrew letters in a file, what I got instead was a bunch of files from the website where I found the letters. Only one of them was at all interesting, the parrot.


Oh, OK. Thanks!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I think it grieves so many of us, which is why we'd like to see change.
> 
> A question for your dil's mother, if you will accept it: What does she think about the weakening of the Voting Rights Act? Does it mean nothing to her, or something important?


We've never gotten into deep discussion about this. She is pretty conservative as are most Nebraskans. I'll ask her next time we talk.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Why is Komen giving money to planned Parenthood? I will no longer support Komen.


Neither will I!


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Why is Komen giving money to planned Parenthood? I will no longer support Komen.


Really, really wish you would do some reading about why Komen donates to Planned Parenthood instead of a quick reaction. Komen was going to stop contributing to Planned Parenthood and received a large backlash of people saying they will cease contributing to Komen. In many areas, the ACA is not all that functional yet and the only place women can get affordable Pap smears to check for cancer is at Planned Parenthood. Why would you be against women getting Pap smears?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahaha! I'm trying to stay away from the "faith based" stuff. Haven't you noticed?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Really, really wish you would do some reading about why Komen donates to Planned Parenthood instead of a quick reaction. Komen was going to stop contributing to Planned Parenthood and received a large backlash of people saying they will cease contributing to Komen. In many areas, the ACA is not all that functional yet and the only place women can get affordable Pap smears to check for cancer is at Planned Parenthood. Why would you be against women getting Pap smears?


That's a good question. Thank you.

She might also learn what else Planned Parenthood does that is not related to abortion.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Why is Komen giving money to planned Parenthood? I will no longer support Komen.


Because 97% of PP's services are for general checkups, cancer screening, etc., and have nothing to do with abortion. You could continue giving to Komen but subtract 3% so you're not paying for the abortion services.


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Like mammograms? Not! maybe a few but only if they have the very expensive equipment and a licensed person to operate it.


Planned Parenthood does a few mammograms. Most mammograms are outsourced to medical facilities in the community. Planned Parenthood acts as a coordinator and underwrites the cost.

Why do you object to Planned Parenthood providing cancer screenings? Is your war on abortion of higher priority than easy access for cancer screenings that save thousands of lives every year?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> EXACTLY!!! That's what I've been thinking for years! Just think of all the money raised by Komen alone! I don't think they want a cure! Or prevention!


This is the ONLY breast cancer group to which I donate. Check it out. On the right side of the page check out the "think before you pink" campaign. I think I still have chemo brain after 20 years. By this time, though, it's probably advanced age.
http://www.bcaction.org/


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Like mammograms? Not! maybe a few places do, but only if they have the very expensive equipment and a licensed person to operate it.
> 
> Then who pays for the mammograms and pap smears? I doubt they give those to the patients for free. Do they provide birth control, free? How about the morning after pill, free? Abortions, free?


Sometimes the services are free. Most of the time, a woman pays a fee based on her income - a sliding scale. Much of the costs are underwritten by donations.


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Are all of these services included in the ACA? Since it is preventive care, I thought there was no cost. So a functional ACA should put Planned Parenthood out of business.
> 
> You do know that ACA will pay for abortions, too. At least then they will be done in a real medical facility by a doctor with admitting privileges. Then the Doctors will need to follow the laws better and report rapes of underage children.


What ACA provides is to some extent determined by each individual policy and state regulations. ACA is not fully functional and it may be 5 years or more before it does put Planned Parenthood out of business. Why do you object to Planned Parenthood providing easy access to cancer screenings?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Oh yes. Most are finished blooming for the year. I imagine them all year round.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> are your Cacti blooming? Ours are not.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Geez, that site isnt even honest enough to list its owners and asks for Bitcoin donations.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> PULEEEESE, give it a rest.What is all this BS about people having more than one identity here?Surely you have more interesting things to do. What a waste of time to try to identify all, if any, other usernames people have. They still say what they want to say, and you can still respond to them as you please.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Agreed.



Poor Purl said:


> You begin by insulting someone, and when she answers you in kind, you call her "a nasty piece of work"? I like VocalLisa because she's well-informed, can argue logically, and shows compassion for people. How is that being a nasty piece of work?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Will those wicked women have asked for it then?



alcameron said:


> If Roe vs.Wade is ever overturned there'll be a lot more abortions in unsafe and unsanitary places and a lot more women dying from unsafe procedures.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> As for your second sentence, Winston Churchill: This is the sort of English up with which I will not put.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Winnie was a great man of letters....words too sometimes.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> In that memory I have that is full of useless bits of speeches, complete lyrics to advertising jingles, songs from the 20s and 30s, etc.


In other words, the important stuff.

:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Like mammograms? Not! maybe a few places do, but only if they have the very expensive equipment and a licensed person to operate it.
> 
> Then who pays for the mammograms and pap smears? I doubt they give those to the patients for free. Do they provide birth control, free? How about the morning after pill, free? Abortions, free?


jeoysomma
why do you so vehemently speak against Planned Parenthood when you now SO LITTLE about them? Perhaps you should go and visit one of their facilities and become informed.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

See John Bogle's thoughts on derivatives. He's a very bright man who has seen our markets ebb and flow for decades. He knows enough to say that derivatives are only meant to confuse the issues. If you don't understand it fully, RUN. Love that man.



Poor Purl said:


> I was forced to learn about derivatives in 2008, as everybody should have been. They are truly the invention of the devil, or the bankers, which comes to the same thing. Thanks for the link, anyway.


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

I am beginning to think joeysomma does give her war on abortion a higher priority than allowing women to have easy access to cancer screenings. That would mean she thinks its acceptable to consider any women dying from cancer that could have been found at an early stage by a screening as necessary, incidental casualties of her war on abortion. To express what I think of such a cold-hearted attitude would require my vocabulary to descend into unladylike vernacular.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think of 'cancer' as a series of nebulously related diseases. There is no one cure, but a long series.

I think finding cures for cancer would vastly stimulate our economy and create many more jobs rather than destroying jobs. IMHO



SQM said:


> May I bring up a new war on women? The Cancer Industry. We all know that it must be a zillion dollar industry, globally. Why does the research focus seem to be on treatment rather than cure? How many people would lose their jobs if cancer was ever cured? How would a cancer cure affect our economy? ?????


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Multiple Identities. 
The folks who are spending a lot of time trying to figure out who is who remind me of Chipmunks, they are digging constantly and achieve nothing. They always end up where they started. What a waste of time and energy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And many will not support Komen if they don't support Planned Parenthood. By the way they provided vital medical services to areas that would be unserved if they didn't. Don't be Joey one-note.



joeysomma said:


> Why is Komen giving money to planned Parenthood? I will no longer support Komen.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Really, really wish you would do some reading about why Komen donates to Planned Parenthood instead of a quick reaction. Komen was going to stop contributing to Planned Parenthood and received a large backlash of people saying they will cease contributing to Komen. In many areas, the ACA is not all that functional yet and the only place women can get affordable Pap smears to check for cancer is at Planned Parenthood. Why would you be against women getting Pap smears?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Well put.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Because 97% of PP's services are for general checkups, cancer screening, etc., and have nothing to do with abortion. You could continue giving to Komen but subtract 3% so you're not paying for the abortion services.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> This is the ONLY breast cancer group to which I donate. Check it out. On the right side of the page check out the "think before you pink" campaign. I think I still have chemo brain after 20 years. By this time, though, it's probably advanced age.
> http://www.bcaction.org/


I used to donate to Komen and my whole family would go to the race with me. Its just that, if you think about it, why haven't they found a cure? Have they tried? I agree with SQM! Cancer treatment is very profitable! Why kill the goose that laid the golden egg?

I sure know what you mean about chemo brain! The funny thing for me was that my best friend got breast cancer shortly after I did, so we went through chemo brain together. One of us would try to find words to finish a sentence and the other would say, I know what you mean. Neither of us could pull the word out of our brains. We would laugh and laugh! Its funnier when you're going through it with someone else. We always talked about writing a funny book about chemo brain. We never did. By the time you're through it you don't want to relive it, I guess. I gave my brain a workout doing crossword puzzles and Sudoku. I still have a hard time focusing on reading a long article. My brain just wanders. I also have sleep issues which I never had before.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


Why do you say this? It was only a picture of stacks of money, to visualize the national debt. It provided no opinions. Why do you care what website it was on? I don't understand. Are we to ignore anything that comes from a source we aren't used to?


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Based on what I have read it is not likely there will ever be one cure for cancer. Cancer is not one disease with the ability to affect every part of the body. It is more like a family of similar diseases with different triggers to turn off the process that stops cell division. Some cancers are started by viruses and some by exposure to radiation (nuclear, solar, maybe electromagnetic).


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Based on what I have read it is not likely there will ever be one cure for cancer. Cancer is not one disease with the ability to affect every part of the body. It is more like a family of similar diseases with different triggers to turn off the process that stops cell division. Some cancers are started by viruses and some by exposure to radiation (nuclear, solar, maybe electromagnetic).


Yup! I also think we should put more focus on prevention. There are so many things in our environment that are known to cause cancer. ie pesticides in our food, particulates in our air, hormones in our meat and dairy etc...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> In other words, the important stuff.
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Yup. It must be, because that's all I remember.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> See John Bogle's thoughts on derivatives. He's a very bright man who has seen our markets ebb and flow for decades. He knows enough to say that derivatives are only meant to confuse the issues. If you don't understand it fully, RUN. Love that man.


I see he's the founder of Vanguard, a very smart idea. When I have the patience to read something longer than 3 sentences, I'll look him up.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> I am beginning to think joeysomma does give her war on abortion a higher priority than allowing women to have easy access to cancer screenings. That would mean she thinks its acceptable to consider any women dying from cancer that could have been found at an early stage by a screening as necessary, incidental casualties of her war on abortion. To express what I think of such a cold-hearted attitude would require my vocabulary to descend into unladylike vernacular.


I think among certain people, the unborn take priority over the living.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> BTW you might be surprised at how many like me. Not to mention two who _you'd_ think hate me write to say that while I'm a PITA, they respect my intelligence and straitforwardness. And at least two others who have no prob selling "friends" down the river and say they think you're nice, but that you, intellectually don't have both oars in the water.


Unfortunately this will probably be gone before she sees it. So I'm saving it for you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Kiss kiss :× :×


We'd better stop meeting like this. My husband is getting suspicious.

Read your PMs.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> How can you not understand why reliable sources matter?
> 
> How the numbers were presented were deceptive, lacked context and honest assessment for history. Just because a number SEEMS big and scary, doesn't mean it is.


You know what? My source is no worse than the left wing rags, you source. Oh, wait.... You don't post any sources! You think you're an expert on everything! This isn't fun anymore!!! I'm gone!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

He is also a master of plain speech. You'll never regret making time to read him. Many, many people have a great deal of gratitude to the man.



Poor Purl said:


> I see he's the founder of Vanguard, a very smart idea. When I have the patience to read something longer than 3 sentences, I'll look him up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO very sad but very true.



Poor Purl said:


> I think among certain people, the unborn take priority over the living.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> How can you not understand why reliable sources matter?
> 
> How the numbers were presented were deceptive, lacked context and honest assessment for history. Just because a number SEEMS big and scary, doesn't mean it is.


This is part of the process of critical thinking that I employ. Perhaps it helps explain the direction of the discussion.


----------



## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Because 97% of PP's services are for general checkups, cancer screening, etc., and have nothing to do with abortion. You could continue giving to Komen but subtract 3% so you're not paying for the abortion services.


Right you are, Purl. And these anti-PP gals need to boycott all Chinese products while they're at it (no more Wal-Mart for them). China's fearsome one-child policy should preclude them giving a cent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Consistency? Never.



susanmos2000 said:


> Right you are, Purl. And these anti-PP gals need to boycott all Chinese products while they're at it (no more Wal-Mart for them). China's fearsome one-child policy should preclude them giving a cent.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> If Roe vs.Wade is ever overturned there'll be a lot more abortions in unsafe and unsanitary places and a lot more women dying from unsafe procedures.


I agree. I also think there would be far fewer abortions if people would use any of the very effective methods of birth control whenever they have sex. These methods fail because they aren't used properly, not because they are ineffective.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

To all

Mai Det Herre Signelse deg og vokte deg


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

I'm posting this here and elsewhere because my hero, Robert Reich says everything so well. He compares the US form of capitalism with the "gentler capitalism" of other nations.

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2014/may/28/robert-b-reich-the-perils-of-americas-hard/


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> To all
> 
> Mai Det Herre Signelse deg og vokte deg


Ja, ja, ja. Guten tag, but I don't speak Norwegian. Maybe it's something about a dog! Or "have a good day."


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> I agree that you're not a troll and that youve made some efforts to discuss things differently.
> 
> But you do tend to freak out at any strong counterpoint and take it personally whether it was meaor nt that way or not.


I don't think you're a troll,and it doesn't make any difference to me if you take what others say to you personally. This may sound petty and silly, but what I wonder about is why all the exclaimation points? They have a similar effect as using all caps, IMO. I think the tone of what you have to say would add a level of seriousness the exclaimation ponts take away.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

maryann1701 said:


> That exactly why people dont like you, you are a nasty piece of work.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: And seemingly so as some sort of personal mission.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Ja, ja, ja. Guten tag, but I don't speak Norwegian. Maybe it's something about a dog! Or "have a good day."


It translates to "May the Lord bless you and guard you", I think. I am little rusty at translating.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> Aparently you are since you just asked such a stupid question.
> 
> BTW! youve also been misattributing many others for me for months as well.
> asty
> You're not as smart as you think you are.


Here we go with the insults again. You're playing right into the hands of those who say all libs are "nasty". (God, I hate that word "nasty". I wish everyone who uses it would stop now if not sooner.)


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> It translates to "May the Lord bless you and guard you", I think. I am little rusty at translating.


Thank you


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Maybe not total annihilation but it is a global economy and if one country even begins to sink financially, the rest will totter. Just leave out the Apocalyptic thinking and focus on a country whose financial system is based on pure paper.
> 
> Neb. has every right to post here without anyone slamming her. Some go for her jugular each time she posts. Open up your minds for a moment and consider her possibilities before posting.


:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

VocalLisaO1 said:


> The only thing the left ever needed to do to "use" the Teabaggers was to help them get exposure and let them open their mouths and let their freak flags fly.
> 
> We knew early on you'd all be your own worst enemy and keep shootin' yourselves in the proverbial foot.


Speaking of Teabaggers, I heard somewhere that Ted Cruz is leading the charge for the GOP for prez. Isn't that great news?????


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This discussion has jumped the track. My ONLY premise was that, not all black people think or feel the same way. I still stand behind that statement. VL has been trying to twist my comments to make me out as a racist. I treat people as individuals, regardless of race. She thinks I need to treat black people differently than any other race. I disagree. She can try to twist my words but my premise remains the same. You can't presume you know what a person thinks or feels based upon their race!
> 
> That said, not all black people have had the same experiences. Not all black people live in the ghetto either. My heart goes out to the ones who are discriminated against. Those who are warehoused in housing projects and made to feel that they can never get out. Omaha has been working on eliminating housing projects. They've instituted "scattered site housing" throughout the city. The city housing dept is buying houses throughout the city and placing people in apartments throughout the city. In my opinion, this is where our tax dollars should be going. In my opinion, putting people in housing projects and giving them welfare and food stamps isn't helping them at all. Its keeping them down and controlling them. I want to see them succeed. I want them to be independent. I am not saying we should. n't take care of people. I'm saying we should make it possible for them to take care of themselves.


Good post. Thanks!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> To all
> 
> Mai Det Herre Signelse deg og vokte deg


Translate please. I always translate when I write Hebrew in English to PP.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Ja, ja, ja. Guten tag, but I don't speak Norwegian. Maybe it's something about a dog! Or "have a good day."


Impressed you recognized Norwegian. I have two Dale of Norway sweaters, Yarnie.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

SQM said:


> Translate please. I always translate when I write Hebrew in English to PP.


"May the Lord bless you and guard you"


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Impressed you recognized Norwegian. I have two Dale of Norway sweaters, Yarnie.


I have no idea if it's really Norwegian. I know that she talks about being Norwegian, so I assumed.
I'm off to the Farmers' Market to get some goodies.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I stopped supporting the Komen Foundation after they eliminated $680,000 in grants to Planned Parenthood for breast cancer screenings and education programs in January of 2012. I'm not alone in this. Komen lost a lot of contributors because the cut PP funding.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Neither will I!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I stopped supporting the Komen Foundation after they eliminated $680,000 in grants to Planned Parenthood for breast cancer screenings and education programs in January of 2012. I'm not alone in this. Komen lost a lot of contributors because the the cut PP funding.


Check out the "think before you pink" campaign on the Breast Cancer Action site. BCA is a grassroots SF breast cancer advocacy group.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Right you are, Purl. And these anti-PP gals need to boycott all Chinese products while they're at it (no more Wal-Mart for them). China's fearsomee one-child policy should preclude them giving a cent.


China is beginning to relax that policy, if all the mainstream (except Fox) news reports I watched over the past couple of days are to be believed.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The best alternative to abortion. Now the laws for adoption need to be changed to what is in the best interest of the child.


It's pleasant to think that there's an good adoptive home waiting for every unwanted baby, but the facts just don't bear that notion out. There are 463K American children currently in foster homes--quite frankly, no one seems interested in adopting these kids.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Chna is beginning to relax that policy, if all the mainstream news repors I watched over the past couple of days are to be believed.


In fact, I've heard that too. I'm not sure, though, whether it reflects an official change of policy or just the reality that many Chinese have learned to "beat" the system.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Check out the "think before you pink" campaign on the Breast Cancer Action site. BCA is a grassroots SF breast cancer advocacy group.


Thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> I thought the ACA requires every policy to cover the exact same things. No exceptions!
> The only differences are the Doctors and hospitals included, and the deductibles and premiums.
> States cannot opt out of anything.


Darlin' you can obfuscate from now till the end of time, however the question won't change.

Why do you want to deny women easy access to cancer screenings?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I stopped supporting the Komen Foundation after they eliminated $680,000 in grants to Planned Parenthood for breast cancer screenings and education programs in January of 2012. I'm not alone in this. Komen lost a lot of contributors because the cut PP funding.


MaidInBedlam
I have withdrawn my support to Komen as well and increased it to PP.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The rules for adopting a child are very rigid. The rights of the natural parents are more important than the rights of the child. If the father is sentenced to more than 10 years in prison, he has lost any right to the child, if the mother gave the child for adoption. The child has been adopted, in a loving and caring family. Now 7 years later the father has his sentenced reduced to less than 10 years. He can claim the child. And the child is forced to leave the only family she knows to live with a stranger.
> Who cares about the rights of the child to be loved and secure?


*sigh* Yes, I'm afraid that's a whole new can of worms. There are far too many cases in which children have been placed in good adoptive homes and then been torn away when one biological parent or the other has changed his or her mind. But like it or not there's no going back to the days of "closed adoptions", which is why adoption is no longer the quick and easy alternative to abortion as some pro-lifers believe.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> The best alternative to abortion. Now the laws for adoption need to be changed to what is in the best interest of the child.


I agree. My concern about the emphasis the Pro-Life movement of getting babies born and seeming to lose interest after that is the main reason I'm not a part of that movement.

I'm not sure what laws for adopton need changing. I can think of a few reasons, but would like to hear your opinion(s). I'd like to think more women would be willing to give birth and put their unwanted child up for adoption. There are always going to be reasons women won't do this, but I'm being idealistic and hoping a few more would go the adoption route.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> In fact, I've heard that too. I'm not sure, though, whether it reflects an official change of policy or just the reality that many Chinese have learned to "beat" the system.


The reason cited is that the Chinese work force is getting smaller and smaller.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Miss Pennsylvania Valerie Gatto Was Conceived in Rape, Glad She Wasnt Aborted


This young woman's mother indeed made a truly noble gesture by allowing the pregnancy to proceed--but it was only generous and unselfish because it was _voluntary_. How would it feel to know of women who'd been forced by law to give birth to babies so deformed babies they couldn't even draw their first breath, or those who were robbed of their eyesight, their health, or even their lives by pregnancies that were physically unsafe for them?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> The rules for adopting a child are very rigid. The rights of the natural parents are more important than the rights of the child. If the father is sentenced to more than 10 years in prison, he has lost any right to the child, if the mother gave the child for adoption. The child has been adopted, in a loving and caring family. Now 7 years later the father has his sentenced reduced to less than 10 years. He can claim the child. And the child is forced to leave the only family she knows to live with a stranger.
> Who cares about the rights of the child to be loved and secure?


I care and I am sure I'm not alone in this. Obviously, the whole subject of bio-parental rights needs to be addressed. Adoped chlidren need to be protected from the whims of their bio-parents.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> *sigh* Yes, I'm afraid that's a whole new can of worms. There are far too many cases in which children have been placed in good adoptive homes and then been torn away when one biological parent or the other has changed his or her mind. But like it or not there's no going back to the days of "closed adoptions", which is why adoption is no longer the quick and easy alternative to abortion as some pro-lifers believe.


Maybe it is possible to go back to the days of closed adoption. It seems worthwhile to try it, at least.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe it is possible to go back to the days of closed adoption. It seems worthwhile to try it, at least.


I not sure that would be possible or even healthy for the children in question. As I understand it, closed adoptions of previous times were standard because the underage mother's parents could legally put the baby up for adoption, whether she wanted them to or not. And we know now how many mental and physical problems are genetically related--even sealed records would probably have to be opened at some point in the adopted child's life out of medical necessity.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Read this message that was posted on the link below

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-263157-1.html

It sure tells a lot about different charities. Same ones here and same results.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Everyone please comment if you read this. If you don't read it, you're missing something.



alcameron said:


> I'm posting this here and elsewhere because my hero, Robert Reich says everything so well. He compares the US form of capitalism with the "gentler capitalism" of other nations.
> 
> http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2014/may/28/robert-b-reich-the-perils-of-americas-hard/


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Absolutely.

Don't miss the Robert Reich link Al posted. Gives real insight into our economy and a comparison with European countries.



SQM said:


> Speaking of Teabaggers, I heard somewhere that Ted Cruz is leading the charge for the GOP for prez. Isn't that great news?????


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wish I were going. Strawberries yet? What are you seeking?



alcameron said:


> I have no idea if it's really Norwegian. I know that she talks about being Norwegian, so I assumed.
> I'm off to the Farmers' Market to get some goodies.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Komen backed down, but I think it was just $$.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I stopped supporting the Komen Foundation after they eliminated $680,000 in grants to Planned Parenthood for breast cancer screenings and education programs in January of 2012. I'm not alone in this. Komen lost a lot of contributors because the cut PP funding.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wouldn't be surprised. Lots of men & no women. Bad plan, but it did keep the growth rate down for a time.



MaidInBedlam said:


> China is beginning to relax that policy, if all the mainstream (except Fox) news reports I watched over the past couple of days are to be believed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sad but true. Older children (anyone not a baby), 'imperfect' physically, etc suffer long waits and sad lives.



susanmos2000 said:


> It's pleasant to think that there's an good adoptive home waiting for every unwanted baby, but the facts just don't bear that notion out. There are 463K American children currently in foster homes--quite frankly, no one seems interested in adopting these kids.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I did exactly that also.



Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> I have withdrawn my support to Komen as well and increased it to PP.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> I not sure that would be possible or even healthy for the children in question. As I understand it, closed adoptions of previous times were standard because the underage mother's parents could legally put the baby up for adoption, whether she wanted them to or not. And we know now how many mental and physical problems are genetically related--even sealed records would probably have to be opened at some point in the adopted child's life out of medical necessity.


All very important and valid points. Let me expand what I said. 31 states=16,8=17,, 13=17


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I feel closed adoptions were always a bad idea for the children, who should be the main priority. IMHO

They always seem to wonder: "Why did my parents give me away? Didn't they love me?" Medical history may become a convenience....or a life or death matter at some point in the child's life. "What were my 'real' parents like? Why am I the only blonde in the family?" It's always difficult growing up. Children need all the answers they can find.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe it is possible to go back to the days of closed adoption. It seems worthwhile to try it, at least.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I saw that. Excellent. It's the information we need to donate to the best charities. Expenses matter. I want to see my money go to those who need it, not to those who run it. IMHO



Designer1234 said:


> Read this message that was posted on the link below
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-263157-1.html
> 
> It sure tells a lot about different charities. Same ones here and same results.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Fumble fingers got me. I'll try to write something sensible about closed adoptions in a little while.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

OK, the fumble fingers are gone. Here's a little of what I think about closed adoptions.

All good points, dame and susan. I think providing adoptive families full medical information about the bio-parents family for the child who's being adopted should be a no-brainer. It could be done without including any identifying information about the bio-family.

I'm not sure what could be done about parental control. Underage people are often unable to make good decisions. Parents have all sorts of responsibilities, legally, for their children. There are also a lot of things to consider if a birth-family is going to keep an unwanted child. What the neighbors will think is meaningless, but whether the child's grandparents, who may very well end up raising their child's child, can actually do so is important. 

And what do we tell adopted children, when and how? This may be like giving children age-appropriate answers when they ask where babies come from. In the best interests of an adoptive child, maybe the adoptive parents have to agree to give their child age-appropriate answers to their questions about where they came from. It would only be one more hoop along with tons of others prospective adoptive parents have to jump through. 

I think adoptions should remain closed until the adopted person is 21. We already know that many adopted people want to find and do find their birth parents. It seems making this process as difficult as it is is an injustice to adopted people. This is something the birth parent(s) would have to be told when their child is given up, but not something they could be allowed to get out of.

I wonder how many times I've contradicted myself in what I've just written. I probably sound overly strict and be making very black and white statements even though there are more than 50 shades-of grey.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> I feel closed adoptions were always a bad idea for the children, who should be the main priority. IMHO
> 
> They always seem to wonder: "Why did my parents give me away? Didn't they love me?" Medical history may become a convenience....or a life or death matter at some point in the child's life. "What were my 'real' parents like? Why am I the only blonde in the family?" It's always difficult growing up. Children need all the answers they can find.


I agree l00%. We adopted a little girl and the adoption was closed and the birth mother had no idea who we were nor did we have any idea who she was. BC opened the records when she was l8 and we helped her find her birth mother. It is more open now thank heavens, although that could cause problems too. I thought of her birth mother every birthday, and Christmas and always wished I could reassure her that my daughter was doing well and very loved.

It is a normal reaction for a child to think she was 'given away because they didn't want her, which was not usually (in my opinion)the truth. Her birth mother left her 'worker' a poem and letter for my daughter in which she asked me to give to her when I felt she was old enough and ready -- I gave it to her when she was 13 as she was emotionally ready - it meant a lot to my daughter and she always knew that if there was a way to find her we would. It was hard for me to help her look- but best for her I felt. When Eunice (the birth mother) first came to visit us with our daughter - my daughter said, well, I know where I got my nose! Very telling - She knew where she came from.

we told lisa from childhood that she was adopted- That was the way it was done then. She was blue eyes and my boys and both DH and I had brown eyes, - We did the best we could to make it easy for her but the questions were there and the lack of confidence feeling that she didn't know where she came from. It took a court order at that time to obtain her health records and was quite involved and sometimes refused. Luckily we didn't need to.

It is a very hard thing to be an adoptive parent, but feel that your child has a right to know where she came from. I had so many 
misgivings, and actually was afraid we would lose her. We didn't but she does keep in touch with her birth mother and they are friends. We have no problem with that. It is one more person who loves her- but I will admit I had all sorts of negative feelings about it at the beginning and was jealous. Then I talked to her MOther and it was much harder for her - It was new ground then.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Right you are, Purl. And these anti-PP gals need to boycott all Chinese products while they're at it (no more Wal-Mart for them). China's fearsome one-child policy should preclude them giving a cent.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> OK, the fumble fingers are gone. Here's a little of what I think about closed adoptions.
> 
> All good points, dame and susan. I think providing adoptive families full medical information about the bio-parents family for the child who's being adopted should be a no-brainer. It could be done without including any identifying information about the bio-family.
> 
> ...


It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Maybe it is possible to go back to the days of closed adoption. It seems worthwhile to try it, at least.


MaidInBedlam
you obviously have not been around people who have tried for a large part of their lives to find out where they came from. Just located with the help of MANY others the mother and siblings of a person. This person has been searching for 38 years. I can assure you that many people go through life never getting the answers they so desperately were looking for. I am not for closed adoptions at all.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

joeysomma

Been doing some reading this morning. Your history of postings indicate you consider 4 things to be abominations: abortion, Obama, the ACA and Planned Parenthood. If you were put in charge its obvious the latter three would immediately disappear.

If the ACA and Planned Parenthood were gone, where would the majority of middle-income and lower-income women obtain affordable cancer screenings? Don't bother answering because that is the stupidest question I ever asked. The answer is over 90% of those women would have no access to affordable screenings. Your postings history also indicates you truly believe only those can afford to pay for medical care from their own pockets should have medical care.

Don't know where or how you became so cold-hearted and calloused. Do hope the Good Lord grants you clearer vision and an epiphany about the teachings of his Son *before* your judgment day.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


susanmos2000
If the mother gave up her child for what THEN were good reasons, should we not at least hope that she matured and allows the child to find her for good reasons as well? It is hard for both sides but why not take the child's needs into consideration? Always in search of one's identity is a terrible existence. We accept strangers into our lives, why not those we brought into this world? 
As to when to tell a child that it is adopted, that is an issue to be solved by each family but I feel it should take place as early as possible. An In-Laws Friend found out that he was adopted when his Mother died and he took care of the estate. He found the papers. He was devastated not to have been told that and he was then 80 years of age.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> joeysomma
> 
> Been doing some reading this morning. Your history of postings indicate you consider 4 things to be abominations: abortion, Obama, the ACA and Planned Parenthood. If you were put in charge its obvious the latter three would immediately disappear.
> 
> ...


Mountain Stitches
you are a Jewel.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


--------------------
I agree -- there are three people in the 'triad' . When we applied to find L's birth mom, there was no chance of them meeting if E had not put her name in that she wanted contact. It should be both of them and until age 21 I think it has to be with the permission of the adoptive parents. We gave permission, but only after we found out that E had a written permission to find the adoptee and instigated a search. That was when the first adoptions were allowed to be opened. I don't know what the situation is now.

Another thing - there are sometimes situations where the adoptive parents don't feel that it would be a good thing for the adoptee (their child) to meet for different reasons -- life style, etc. drug addictions -mental health issues -- and because they can't deal with the idea- (which is sometimes quite possible).

The adopting Moms were promised at that time( in 1970) that their name would remain a secret. Sometimes the birth mom, for reasons of her own, has not told anyone - including new spouses or family members that there is a child. So at that time, both the sides had to sign that they wanted the information. In our case we had to sign as she was under 21. They had to 'search' on both sides. It was only opened the year before - and only in a couple of Provinces then -

It is a difficult time. My son (took his sister out to the Province where she was adopted, and went with her and checked out her situation and as he was her ' big brother' he would have been very careful that he felt good about it - as it was he gave her his phone number and he dropped by later in the day to make sure everything was okay and stayed there for the weekend and took them both out for lunch etc. and reassured himself and us that she was okay. If he had not gone with her we would have - but she wanted to meet Eunice on her own. She was worried it would upset us. We were in contact often with my son and she called us twice too.

I don't know how it is done now. If the Birth mother doesn't want to be found is she forced? I think it still has to be agreeable to both sides here but am not sure.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I would like to add that few of these reunions blossom into relationships. I know of two cases where one friend of mine found her birth mom and the other's daughter found her. Neither cases bonded.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree -- there are three people in the 'triad' . When we applied to find Lisa's birth mom, there was no chance of them meeting if Eunice had not put her name in that she wanted contact. It should be both of them and until age 21 I think it has to be with the permission of the adoptive parents. We gave permission, but only after we found out that Eunice had her name in. That was when the first adoptions were allowed to be opened.
> 
> Another thing - there are sometimes situations where the adoptive parents don't feel that it would be a good thing for the adoptee (their child) to meet for different reasons -- life style, etc. drug addictions -mental health issues -- and because they can't deal with the idea-
> 
> ...


Designer134
you are an Angel and so is your Son.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> you obviously have not been around people who have tried for a large part of their lives to find out where they came from. Just located with the help of MANY others the mother and siblings of a person. This person has been searching for 38 years. I can assure you that many people go through life never getting the answers they so desperately were looking for. I am not for closed adoptions at all.


-----------------------------------------
I feel that if both parties are agreeable it should be opened. However I do think that there should be some sort of guidelines set up if one wants to get together and the other doesn't.

_If the adoptive parents know from the beginning that there is a possibility - that would help. I would think that some people would not want to put their child out for adoption if they know that it could come back to haunt them in the future_.

Our daughter is not close to her birth Mother, but does see her once in awhile when she is in the town where she is - as she visits that town with her job. There is not an especially close relationship but they do keep in touch. As we are not in the same Province, we have not seen her again, but we do keep in touch by email.

It is a difficult situation. I do think that in a lot of cases the feelings and the thoughts, are rarely with the adoptive parents, even in this discussion which is quite often the way it is.

I went on an adoption thread where adoptees were discussing their adoptions - some adoptive parents and some birth mothers were on it too. One girl said that she was 'insulted' because her adopted parents told her even after she found her birth mother that THEY were here parents. All the years they raised and loved her were worth nothing. I am afraid I got into that discussion. I received an email from the girl and said she felt differently now that I had defended the rights of those who had raised the child.

Interesting discussion - brings back a lot of feelings. I still get a sick feeling thinking about it. The thing is - when you receive a baby at 5 days old and raise it and love it and look after it and to have to decide to contact someone who can completely take away that relationship (at least in your mind), and have to put on a good face is is soooo hard. Especially when all the discussion is about the birth mother and the child -- extremely rarely are the adoptive parents even considered worth a thought. It is something that I have felt for years. Parents who raise a child want what is best for that child -- I knew in my head it was but my heart broke at the time. And yet, I felt for the birth mother and had felt for her on every birthday and every celebration and every graduation picture all those years.

_When we met her DH and I made a collage of her life from the time she was brought home for l9 years. All her grad pictures, all her activity pictures, a pictorial group of pictures of her whole life[/u].

She and I talked together and I gave it to her - she Still has it on a place in her wall. I always felt so sorry for her. I knew that she loved the child - from the poem she sent her and the letter. Which she had asked me to read when I got it from the Worker.

We would have likely handled it differently if we didn't feel that she really loved the baby -- and remember it was a different time then. A huge stigma was felt by others then. Very judgmental.

Adoption is one way but it is not an easy way for any of the people involved - the child, the birth mother, and what people don't seem to acknowledge the adoptive parents. It was so hard on my husband as she was Daddy's little girl._


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Designer134
> you are an Angel and so is your Son.


No- I am a Mother and he is the Brother of a wonderful member of our family. It was the hardest thing I ever did. But I felt it was the only option I had as I loved her. He is extremely close to her still, and I knew without a doubt that he would watch over her at that time in her life. It still makes me feel sick as I was so afraid of what it would do to the family.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> To all
> 
> Mai Det Herre Signelse deg og vokte deg


It is meant as a blessing

May the Lord bless you, and keep you.

Did not get to finish it, but meant it for all of you.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

theyarnlady said:


> It is meant as a blessing
> 
> May the Lord bless you, and keep you.
> 
> Did not get to finish it, but meant it for all of you.


Can you read it for us, please?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Other countries ARE the investors. They trade for and invest in "dollars" because it is the international monetary unit. They need "dollars" to buy oil and everything else. EXCEPT that many countries are already rebelling and trading in alternative currencies. China, Russia and Japan have been dumping their treasury bonds (dollars) like crazy. Iran has agreed to sell them oil for gold and yuan. When they've decided they no longer need the dollar, they will continue to divest. If they all divest at once, the dollar crashes and they lose their money too. So they're getting out slowly. Hence, the federal reserve's printing presses are on overdrive. We used to borrow most of our money from China. They're no longer buying t bills so the fed is making up the difference.


And cranking up the government printing presses is a tax on all the people who have been saving money in the bank and who have money in investments that are earning minuscule rates of interest. The purchasing power of every dollar invested diminishes whenever inflation increases.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> I vote for respect, equality, equal work for equal pay, equal opportunity, equal responsibility in the home and child care......aren't you sorry I got started? Sorry.


Good grief, don't be sorry. The greater the equality in the worlds of business, education, and other public venues, the better the chance of social equality. I will climb on your bandwagon and even make rosettes for the float.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Susanmos2000 


I cannot think of too many things scarier than a relative being so close in time proximity to a shooting like the one in Isla Vista. She and your brothe had incredibly great karma!

I listened to an excerpt from a presentation by Angela Davis earlier and she said that the sexual violence and gun violence against women is "a means of regulating gender" and that we now have a culture of "toxic masculinity". Cannot get much more accurate than those statements.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> "never pay it back"? Really? Just watch us.


Just hope we live long enough to see it happen. And have our wits about us so we realize it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't understand. Is it wrong to discuss things? I thought we'd already had this conversation. Is sharing not welcome? I've not called anybody names. I've not pushed my opinions on anyone. I shared facts. Is it OK to treat black people differently? Is the economy not in the crapper? What do you object to? Are you suggesting that because you've not heard these things before, I must be a crazy teapartier? I've always thought that it was a good thing to hear new ideas. I've even gotten some on here, from people I wouldn't generally agree with.


I think it is important for all of us who live in more politically liberal areas to be exposed to the more conservative viewpoints. And you present the conservative perspective in a straightforward manner, which stimulates me to think harder and seek additional information.

Conversely, I hope your being exposed to liberal viewpoints is broadening your horizons in regard to fellow Americans. Just as we are not all one faith, not all one ethnos, we are also shades of political viewpoints.

We surely tend to become passionate about issues sometimes. Let's remember we all want an America that is a safe and economically comfortable place for us in our older years and for our children and grandchildren. To accommodate us all, compromises will have to be reached. Our personal freedoms have to be preserved to as great a degree as possible without stepping on someone else's rights.

Society is far from ideal now, as long as there is abject poverty with people going hungry. That is obscene in a world with as much wealth as there is. I don't have the answers within the confines of the society as it is now.

How does a civilized society deal with the amoral, the greedy, the criminal? We need protections for the good guys without descending to the measures that the bad guys do to get order into their world.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Susanmos2000
> 
> I cannot think of too many things scarier than a relative being so close in time proximity to a shooting like the one in Isla Vista. She and your brothe had incredibly great karma!
> 
> I listened to an excerpt from a presentation by Angela Davis earlier and she said that the sexual violence and gun violence against women is "a means of regulating gender" and that we now have a culture of "toxic masculinity". Cannot get much more accurate than those statements.


You hit the nail on the head there, Peacegoddess--both were remarkably unruffled by their close call, attributing their survival to good Karma. Brother and his family are devout Buddhists, and in this case they have a definite advantage over Sister and I (both Catholics) as far peace of mind goes--they're calm as cucumbers while Sister and I have rehashed the incident dozens of times, cringing and biting our nails over all the things that might have come up to keep them in the area.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I would like to add that few of these reunions blossom into relationships. I know of two cases where one friend of mine found her birth mom and the other's daughter found her. Neither cases bonded.


I have a niece who was adopted in the late 60s or early 70s. Until she was in her 30s, she had no desire to meet her birth mother, but then went to a lot of trouble and located her. It was love at first sight. B-mom lives in Florida, and my sister, adoptive mom, spends winters down there. Niece takes time each winter to visit both moms, and b-mom and her two younger daughters are invited to every family affair up here, and they all come.

Sometimes it works.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm not a tea partier! I attended TWO tea party meetings before it was taken over! I have nothing to do with them and they do not represent my views!


Hey, I attended what turned out to be a tea party meeting at the home of people with whom I have been friendly. Honestly, I was surprised at the political views this couple expressed. I very pleasantly kept my mouth shut and my views to myself. The cookies were tasty.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> That exactly why people dont like you, you are a nasty piece of work.


I would tend to say Vocal is provocative. She may be seen as nasty by people with whom she disagrees. Or emperors who have been fooled by their tailors. She sure gets a rise out of some people. Lisa, are you looking for love? Or to get people to think? Or to stick burrs under some saddles? Whatever, you are not boring and do keep us all on our toes.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Watch it Poor Purl, you are going to destroy my reputation!!


Absolutement! The trick is to keep 'em guessing.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I have a niece who was adopted in the late 60s or early 70s. Until she was in her 30s, she had no desire to meet her birth mother, but then went to a lot of trouble and located her. It was love at first sight. B-mom lives in Florida, and my sister, adoptive mom, spends winters down there. Niece takes time each winter to visit both moms, and b-mom and her two younger daughters are invited to every family affair up here, and they all come.
> 
> Sometimes it works.


If everyone wants it to work it can work very well. In our case we didn't live close to each other but if she had lived near the family in our situation, I can see that happening with us.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Susanmos2000
> 
> I cannot think of too many things scarier than a relative being so close in time proximity to a shooting like the one in Isla Vista. She and your brothe had incredibly great karma!
> 
> I listened to an excerpt from a presentation by Angela Davis earlier and she said that the sexual violence and gun violence against women is "a means of regulating gender" and that we now have a culture of "toxic masculinity". Cannot get much more accurate than those statements.


There's an op-ed in today's NYTimes by Ross Douthat, their most conservative columnist, on the shooting and the culture that it came out of. Very surprising. He tends at times to be a bit conservative, but that's his job. But he understands more that I expected, given all that the cons here had to say.

*Prisoners of Sex*

IN an ideal world, perhaps, the testimony left by the young man who killed six people in Santa Barbara would have perished with its author: the video files somehow wiped off the Internet, his manifesto deleted and any printed copy pulped.

Spree killers seek the immortality of infamy, and their imitators are inspired by how easily they win it. As Ari Schulman argued last year in The Wall Street Journal, there would probably be fewer copycat rampages if the typical killers face and name didnt lead the news coverage, if fewer details of biography and motive circulated, if a mass murderers ability to make his internal psychodrama a shared public reality were more strictly circumscribed.

But this is not an ideal world, and so instead of media restraint weve had a splendid little culture war over the significance of the Santa Barbara killers distinctive stew of lust, misogyny and rage. Twitter movements have been created, think pieces written, and all kinds of cultural phenomena  from Judd Apatow movies to pickup artists and Rhonda Byrnes The Secret  have been invoked, analyzed and blamed.

And in fairness to the think pieces  I have to be fair, because Im writing one  in this particular tragedy, the killers motives really do seem to have a larger cultural significance.

Often you step into the mental landscape of a mass murderer and find nothing but paranoia, nightmare logic, snakes eating their own tails. But compared with the mysteries of Tucson, Newtown and Aurora, this case has an internal psychodrama that is much more recognizable, a murderous logic thats a little more familiar. The Santa Barbara killers pulsing antipathy toward women, his shame and fury over sexual inexperience  these were amplified horribly by mental illness, yes, but visit the angrier corners of the Internet, wander in comment threads and chat rooms, and youll recognize them as extreme versions of an all-too-commonplace misogyny.

Ive written before, in the context of the abuse that female writers take online, about this poisoned streams potential origins. The Santa Barbara case hints at one such source  the tension between our cultures official attitude toward sex on the one hand and our actual patterns of sexual and romantic life on the other.

The cultures attitude is Hefnerism, basically, if less baldly chauvinistic than the original Playboy philosophy. Sexual fulfillment is treated as the source and summit of a life well lived, the thing without which nobody (from a carefree college student to a Cialis-taking senior) can be truly happy, enviable or free.

Meanwhile, social alternatives to sexual partnerships are disfavored or in decline: Virginity is for weirdos and losers, celibate life is either a form of unhealthy repression or a smoke screen for deviancy, the kind of intense friendships celebrated by past civilizations are associated with closeted homosexuality, and the steady shrinking of extended families has reduced many peoples access to the familial forms of platonic intimacy.

Yet as sex looms ever larger as an aspirational good, we also live in a society where more people are single and likely to remain so than in any previous era. And since single people have, on average, a lot less sex than the partnered and wedded, a growing number of Americans are statistically guaranteed to feel that theyre not living up to the cultures standard of fulfillment, happiness and worth.

This tension between sexual expectations and social reality is a potential problem for both sexes, but for a variety of reasons  social, cultural and biological  its more likely to produce toxic reactions in the male of the species. Such toxicity need not lead to murder (as it usually, mercifully, does not) to be a source of widespread misery, both for the men who wallow in it and the women unfortunate enough to be targets for their bile.

Contemporary feminism is very good  better than my fellow conservatives often acknowledge  at critiquing these pathologies. But feminism, too, is often a prisoner of Hefnerism, in the sense that it tends to prescribe more and more sex positivity, insisting that the only problem with contemporary sexual culture is that its imperfectly egalitarian, insufficiently celebratory of female agency and desire.

This means that the feminist prescription doesnt supply what men slipping down into the darkness of misogyny most immediately need: not lectures on how they need to respect women as sexual beings, but reasons, despite their lack of sexual experience, to first respect themselves as men.

Such reasons, and the models of intimacy and community that vindicate them, might have done little to prevent the Santa Barbara killers deadly spree.

But they might drain some of the swamps that are forming, slowly, because our society has lost sight of a basic human truth: A culture that too tightly binds sex and self-respect is likely, in the long run, to end up with less and less of both.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/01/opinion/sunday/douthat-prisoners-of-sex.html


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> דנים ופנינות, of course.


Could you use Yiddish vowels? I don't think the Hebrew ones work and the yud is the only one here.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> Can you read it for us, please?


Sqm

I read what I posted May the Lord bless you and Keep you.

did not get to add , in his loving arms.(ved sine erinne kjaerlng)

As I had to leave to go up north.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Could you use Yiddish vowels? I don't think the Hebrew ones work and the yud is the only one here.


I'll transliterate to Yiddish instead of Hebrew. See if that helps.

דענים אוּנד פּערעלס


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's pleasant to think that there's an good adoptive home waiting for every unwanted baby, but the facts just don't bear that notion out. There are 463K American children currently in foster homes--quite frankly, no one seems interested in adopting these kids.


And there appear to be a significant number of kids who are in some sort of limbo not even having foster care placement. I was at a local street fair today, and one of the booths housed a group working to find foster homes for hard to place children.

There are some group homes in the county for kids who would be living on the streets otherwise. And there is a big NIMBY when the county, Catholic Charities, etc. try to set up another badly needed group home. As I have stated elsewhere, ours is an affluent area and there is great need. I cringe to think of the need in more downtrodden areas.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

I would say that the violence against women across the world, but especially in the USA is more than a "pulsing antipathy" Ross Douthant NY Times. Antipathy is defined as:an·tip·a·thy

noun

noun: antipathy; plural noun: antipathies
a deep-seated feeling of dislike; aversion.

I go back to what Angela Davis said, violence against women has become a "means of regulating gender" and we have a culture of "toxic masculinities". 

Let's talk about what these statements mean. Some guy or group of men do not like what women are doing ie taking control of their bodies, their dating and marriage, their decisions about having babies, their enrollment in college, their partying, whatever....well let's just rape or shoot them and that will get them scared and they will back down. If this sounds a bit radical to some here remember the guy who shot into a group of nurses back east because HE, a MAN did not get accepted into nursing school and all those women did.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> I feel closed adoptions were always a bad idea for the children, who should be the main priority. IMHO
> 
> They always seem to wonder: "Why did my parents give me away? Didn't they love me?" Medical history may become a convenience....or a life or death matter at some point in the child's life. "What were my 'real' parents like? Why am I the only blonde in the family?" It's always difficult growing up. Children need all the answers they can find.


I have a work friend whose father was a Norwegian seaman who married an English nurse he met when he became ill in port and had to go to a local hospital for care. His genes bred tall, big boned, brown haired people, hers small, more delicately built blondes.

My friend is medium sized and dark haired. Her husband is so average you forget what he looks like between times you have seen him. The three older children of their marriage are taller than average, have dark curly hair, and sturdy builds. The younger daughter, the youngest, is slight and blonde. She and a cousin of her generation in England look more like sisters than she does to her own sister. My friend used to joke that "Susie" was the milkman's kid. Oops, one of the neighbors took her literally and wouldn't let her kids play with "Susie".

It is not just the adopted kids who look different. The funniest one is a former student who was adopted by a childless couple. When he was about 4 they had their own biological daughter. As the kids grew up, people always thought the girl was the adopted one. The boy was big and broad and looked enough like the mom you would never think he was adopted. The girl looked like the dad's mother, a small pixie like person, but didn't look much like Mom or Dad. Go know!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree l00%. We adopted a little girl and the adoption was closed and the birth mother had no idea who we were nor did we have any idea who she was. BC opened the records when she was l8 and we helped her find her birth mother. It is more open now thank heavens, although that could cause problems too. I thought of her birth mother every birthday, and Christmas and always wished I could reassure her that my daughter was doing well and very loved.
> 
> It is a normal reaction for a child to think she was 'given away because they didn't want her, which was not usually (in my opinion)the truth. Her birth mother left her 'worker' a poem and letter for my daughter in which she asked me to give to her when I felt she was old enough and ready -- I gave it to her when she was 13 as she was emotionally ready - it meant a lot to my daughter and she always knew that if there was a way to find her we would. It was hard for me to help her look- but best for her I felt. When Eunice (the birth mother) first came to visit us with our daughter - my daughter said, well, I know where I got my nose! Very telling - She knew where she came from.
> 
> ...


It does sound as if you handled it the best way circumstances would allow. You are such a generous hearted person that I would imagine you gave the birth mother some assurances that made her life easier. Besides, a child can't have too many people loving him or her as long as they don't try to undermine the love of the others.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I have a niece who was adopted in the late 60s or early 70s. Until she was in her 30s, she had no desire to meet her birth mother, but then went to a lot of trouble and located her. It was love at first sight. B-mom lives in Florida, and my sister, adoptive mom, spends winters down there. Niece takes time each winter to visit both moms, and b-mom and her two younger daughters are invited to every family affair up here, and they all come.
> 
> Sometimes it works.


I like your story better than mine.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll transliterate to Yiddish instead of Hebrew. See if that helps.
> 
> דענים אוּנד פּערעלס


Thanks, gotcha. Very clever. I learned to read Yiddish long before I learned Hebrew. My grandmother read Bintele Briv to me from the Forward every day, and I learned to read following her finger. It has been a long time now, and my Yiddish is no longer fluent. Nobody really to talk to, and I miss it.

I never went to Talmud Torah, and learned Hebrew on my own and in some informal classes. There was a big Read Hebrew America push a few years ago and I found a class that helped. But I wanted to learn so I could read and understand the prayers. The teacher was leaning more toward ulpan, visiting Israel, and making Aliyah. We are Ashkenaz, and I was being pushed toward pronouncing sov as tov, which sounds really weird to me, sort of like a speech impediment. (Sorry if that is not PC, anybody who has a problem with lisping). Fortunately I have a pretty good ear and a decent memory, so I manage ok when I do go to shul.

So, in a nutshell, thanks for vowelizing your comment. Love it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I would say that the violence against women across the world, but especially in the USA is more than a "pulsing antipathy" Ross Douthant NY Times. Antipathy is defined as:an·tip·a·thy
> 
> noun
> 
> ...


Sounds like some serious cases of testosterone poisoning. Most men have a healthy hormone balance, think rationally, have been raised by good mothers, and become wonderful husbands, fathers, friends, brothers.

But some people seem to have a combination of dysfunctional upbringing and "roid rage", either natural or artificially induced, which make them a danger to society in general and women in particular. There have been some horrible crimes committed by women, and there are the Lorena Bobbits of this world, but disproportional numbers of women have been attacked by jealous and possessive men, and a mother's boyfriend is more likely to harm her child by another man from what is reported ad nauseum in the newspapers or on TV.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Powerful article PP.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thanks, gotcha. Very clever. I learned to read Yiddish long before I learned Hebrew. My grandmother read Bintele Briv to me from the Forward every day, and I learned to read following her finger. It has been a long time now, and my Yiddish is no longer fluent. Nobody really to talk to, and I miss it.
> 
> I never went to Talmud Torah, and learned Hebrew on my own and in some informal classes. There was a big Read Hebrew America push a few years ago and I found a class that helped. But I wanted to learn so I could read and understand the prayers. The teacher was leaning more toward ulpan, visiting Israel, and making Aliyah. We are Ashkenaz, and I was being pushed toward pronouncing sov as tov, which sounds really weird to me, sort of like a speech impediment. (Sorry if that is not PC, anybody who has a problem with lisping). Fortunately I have a pretty good ear and a decent memory, so I manage ok when I do go to shul.
> 
> So, in a nutshell, thanks for vowelizing your comment. Love it.


My parents have told me I figured out how to read Yiddish before I learned to read English. I don't remember it, but I do know it came very easily to me when I did learn it. I, too, find Sephardic Hebrew strange-sounding, causing lots of silly jokes between my son and me (now all day schools teach Israeli Hebrew).


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Good grief, don't be sorry. The greater the equality in the worlds of business, education, and other public venues, the better the chance of social equality. I will climb on your bandwagon and even make rosettes for the float.


MarilynKnits
what do you want me to contribute, I am in. Huck


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sounds like some serious cases of testosterone poisoning. Most men have a healthy hormone balance, think rationally, have been raised by good mothers, and become wonderful husbands, fathers, friends, brothers.
> 
> But some people seem to have a combination of dysfunctional upbringing and "roid rage", either natural or artificially induced, which make them a danger to society in general and women in particular. There have been some horrible crimes committed by women, and there are the Lorena Bobbits of this world, but disproportional numbers of women have been attacked by jealous and possessive men, and a mother's boyfriend is more likely to harm her child by another man from what is reported ad nauseum in the newspapers or on TV.


Let's look at how many Lorena's as opposed to the military rapes, the college campus rapes, the high school football/sports date rapes and what do we want to say or analyze of female against male vs male against female crimes and what does it say about our culture.??????


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And there appear to be a significant number of kids who are in some sort of limbo not even having foster care placement. I was at a local street fair today, and one of the booths housed a group working to find foster homes for hard to place children.
> 
> There are some group homes in the county for kids who would be living on the streets otherwise. And there is a big NIMBY when the county, Catholic Charities, etc. try to set up another badly needed group home. As I have stated elsewhere, ours is an affluent area and there is great need. I cringe to think of the need in more downtrodden areas.


MarilynKnits
when such a home was bought here, the surrounding community was up at arms. We fought hard to get it open and open it did. Turned out great. Now even neighbors give Kids a ride to some of the jobs they have and all is well. I do not know why people are so afraid. Nobody objected when we moved here and we were unknown. We could have turned out being Monsters.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Let's look at how many Lorena's as opposed to the military rapes, the college campus rapes, the high school football/sports date rapes and what do we want to say or analyze of female against male vs male against female crimes and what does it say about our culture.??????


peacegoddess
I would not call that culture. I always wonder who reared these abusers? Whatever we did - and we were not Angels - we always thought what would happen if our Parents would find out, it kept us in line.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll transliterate to Yiddish instead of Hebrew. See if that helps.
> 
> דענים אוּנד פּערעלס[/
> 
> I would like it even better if you could transliterate to ABCD . . . . . . .


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> There's an op-ed in today's NYTimes by Ross Douthat, their most conservative columnist, on the shooting and the culture that it came out of. Very surprising. He tends at times to be a bit conservative, but that's his job. But he understands more that I expected, given all that the cons here had to say.
> 
> *Prisoners of Sex*
> 
> ...


Yes! Thank you for posting this article. It is excellent. It takes the attention off the guy's craziness, off the Asperger angle, and puts it where it belongs. Hallelujah!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> peacegoddess
> I would not call that culture. I always wonder who reared these abusers? Whatever we did - and we were not Angels - we always thought what would happen if our Parents would find out, it kept us in line.


I think girls and boys for the most part are raised by different parents. Girls are still taught to be nice, to be pleasing, even though they're encouraged to think for themselves. Boys are still taught that competition is the most important thing. When a competitive boy comes up again an independent girl, things can go awfully wrong.

This is off the top of my head, and I'm sure there are zillions of exceptions.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Yes! Thank you for posting this article. It is excellent. It takes the attention off the guy's craziness, off the Asperger angle, and puts it where it belongs. Hallelujah!


Do they even know whether that lunatic had Asperger's? The fact that he's socially different doesn't make him neurologically different. In fact, the fact that he was so misogynistic makes him sound "normal" to me.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Do they even know whether that lunatic had Asperger's? The fact that he's socially different doesn't make him neurologically different. In fact, the fact that he was so misogynistic makes him sound "normal" to me.


I believe we have to admit there is a lot of misogyny in our society and begin asking why it occurs and what we can do about it.

Sometimes it seems a small thing leads to the bigger acts. A friend of mine heard boys discussing what chores they do or don't do and one of the boys said he does not do certain things such as take out the trash and recycle, and wash his own clothes because that is what mothers do. He is 18. Now his mother sees herself as a feminist and has allowed her sons to get away with doing virtually no chores because the one (18 yr old) is a bit physically and intellectually challenged. But she has created an atmosphere of little respect for women. Now some of the reason for the no chores is because she is a control freak and wants everything done correctly, but none the less she has a bit of a monster in her house now.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe we have to admit there is a lot of misogyny in our society and begin asking why it occurs and what we can do about it.
> 
> Sometimes it seems a small thing leads to the bigger acts. A friend of mine heard boys discussing what chores they do or don't do and one of the boys said he does not do certain things such as take out the trash and recycle, and wash his own clothes because that is what mothers do. He is 18. Now his mother sees herself as a feminist and has allowed her sons to get away with doing virtually no chores because the one (18 yr old) is a bit physically and intellectually challenged. But she has created an atmosphere of little respect for women. Now some of the reason for the no chores is because she is a control freak and wants everything done correctly, but none the less she has a bit of a monster in her house now.


That's an interesting illustration of how boys are raised. My son never did laundry until he was at college; now he does all his own, even when he's staying with us. And he's started cooking, but then so has DH now that he's fully retired.

But I doubt that it's things like household chores that give rise to the misogyny. There's something going on that's far deeper than that, much darker. Maybe it has to do with the fact that physically women are the weaker sex but we've been saying No instead of Yes when asked to do something we don't want. Boys have yet to get used to being told No.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That's an interesting illustration of how boys are raised. My son never did laundry until he was at college; now he does all his own, even when he's staying with us. And he's started cooking, but then so has DH now that he's fully retired.
> 
> But I doubt that it's things like household chores that give rise to the misogyny. There's something going on that's far deeper than that, much darker. Maybe it has to do with the fact that physically women are the weaker sex but we've been saying No instead of Yes when asked to do something we don't want. Boys have yet to get used to being told No.


I think it is a combination of dark and other factors. I need to spend time looking for the survey, but there was a questionnaire given to college men and the gist of it was "If you could have non consentual sex with a female and not get caught would you?" An overwhelming amount said yes.


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

This is not the survey I was looking for, but it is very interesting. Read all the points both male and female and be surprised, nay outraged....even female responses are troubling.

Only Psychos Think Rape is OK...Right? 

Societal Attitudes Supporting Rape 

- A survey of 6,159 college students enrolled at 32 institutions in the U.S. found the following: (ref 4) 

· 54% of the women surveyed had been the victims of some form of sexual abuse; more than one in four college-aged women had been the victim of rape or attempted rape; 

· 57% of the assaults occurred on dates; 

· 73% of the assailants and 55% of the victims had used alcohol or other drugs prior to the assault; 

· 25% of the men surveyed admitted some degree of sexually aggressive behavior; 

· 42% of the victims told no one. 

- In a survey of high school students, 56% of the girls and 76% of the boys believed forced sex was acceptable under some circumstances. (ref 5) 

- A survey of 11-to-14 year-olds foundref 5) 

· 51% of the boys and 41% of the girls said forced sex was acceptable if the boy, "spent a lot of money" on the girl; 

· 31% of the boys and 32% of the girls said it was acceptable for a man to rape a woman with past sexual experience; 

· 87% of boys and 79% of girls said sexual assault was acceptable if the man and the woman were married; 

· 65% of the boys and 47% of the girls said it was acceptable for a boy to rape a girl if they had been dating for more than six months. 

- In a survey of male college students: 

· 35% anonymously admitted that, under certain circumstances, they would commit rape if they believed they could get away with it (ref 6,7). 

· One in 12 admitted to committing acts that met the legal definitions of rape, and 84% of men who committed rape did not label it as rape.(ref 6,7) 

- In another survey of college males: (ref 8) 

· 43% of college-aged men admitted to using coercive behavior to have sex, including ignoring a woman's protest, using physical aggression, and forcing intercourse. 

· 15% acknowledged they had committed acquaintance rape; 11% acknowledged using physical restraints to force a woman to have sex. 

- Women with a history of rape or attempted rape during adolescence were almost twice as likely to experience a sexual assault during college, and were three times as likely to be victimized by a husband. (ref 9) 

- Sexual assault is reported by 33% to 46% of women who are being physically assaulted by their husbands.(ref 10)


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe we have to admit there is a lot of misogyny in our society and begin asking why it occurs and what we can do about it.
> 
> Sometimes it seems a small thing leads to the bigger acts. A friend of mine heard boys discussing what chores they do or don't do and one of the boys said he does not do certain things such as take out the trash and recycle, and wash his own clothes because that is what mothers do. He is 18. Now his mother sees herself as a feminist and has allowed her sons to get away with doing virtually no chores because the one (18 yr old) is a bit physically and intellectually challenged. But she has created an atmosphere of little respect for women. Now some of the reason for the no chores is because she is a control freak and wants everything done correctly, but none the less she has a bit of a monster in her house now.


A sad example of not teaching our children what they need to live....cooking, cleaning, personal finance...and the list goes on.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Chilling.



peacegoddess said:


> This is not the survey I was looking for, but it is very interesting. Read all the points both male and female and be surprised, nay outraged....even female responses are troubling.
> 
> Only Psychos Think Rape is OK...Right?
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> This is not the survey I was looking for, but it is very interesting. Read all the points both male and female and be surprised, nay outraged....even female responses are troubling.
> 
> Only Psychos Think Rape is OK...Right?
> 
> ...


This is sick-making. The attitudes of the younger girls are so troubling. When I was working with young teens, I was shocked at how sexualized their school experience was. A lot of talk, a lot of grabbing, gestures, innuendo. This was among the 12-year-olds. How could they do any learning with all this going on?

Apparently they can't. And if their attitudes about sex are formed in this context, it can't be healthy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> It's certainly a difficult and complicated issue. I think something also has to be said about the birth mom's rights--her right NOT to be found, if she so chooses. Occasionally we hear of a woman who conceived under less-than-ideal circumstances, gave the baby up for adoption, and succeeded in building a happy and satisfying adult life for herself--which is then shattered when the son or daughter given up years before appears and wants a relationship. My heart goes out to them--but I feel for the mothers as well.


Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe we have to admit there is a lot of misogyny in our society and begin asking why it occurs and what we can do about it.
> 
> Sometimes it seems a small thing leads to the bigger acts. A friend of mine heard boys discussing what chores they do or don't do and one of the boys said he does not do certain things such as take out the trash and recycle, and wash his own clothes because that is what mothers do. He is 18. Now his mother sees herself as a feminist and has allowed her sons to get away with doing virtually no chores because the one (18 yr old) is a bit physically and intellectually challenged. But she has created an atmosphere of little respect for women. Now some of the reason for the no chores is because she is a control freak and wants everything done correctly, but none the less she has a bit of a monster in her house now.


The mother you describe has also passed up an opportunity to teach her son one more thing that could give him a him better chance to be an independent adult, especially if he is more than a bit physically and intellectual challenged.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I believe we have to admit there is a lot of misogyny in our society and begin asking why it occurs and what we can do about it.
> 
> Sometimes it seems a small thing leads to the bigger acts. A friend of mine heard boys discussing what chores they do or don't do and one of the boys said he does not do certain things such as take out the trash and recycle, and wash his own clothes because that is what mothers do. He is 18. Now his mother sees herself as a feminist and has allowed her sons to get away with doing virtually no chores because the one (18 yr old) is a bit physically and intellectually challenged. But she has created an atmosphere of little respect for women. Now some of the reason for the no chores is because she is a control freak and wants everything done correctly, but none the less she has a bit of a monster in her house now.


The mother you describe has also passed up an opportunity to teach her son one more thing that could give him a him better chance to be an independent adult, especially if he is more than a bit physically and intellectual challenged.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


Well, but what if revealing the identity of the biological mother puts her at risk for serious abuse by boyfriends, parents, or guardians? That's the rational of that law (forget what it's called) that allows moms to leave their newborns at hospitals, fire stations etc with no questions asked. In general mothers who put their babies up for adoption seem desperate to maintain even marginal contact--when they don't I'd guess that there's a good reason for it.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


I agree , but I think it would help if all three were considered in the discussions. Watch the information - it is always about the birth mother and the child being reunited. If there was even the faintest interest in the Adoptive parents who feel that they are the parents, I would feel less negative about it. You feel as if the ground is shaking underneath you - and yet you love your child and want the best for her and in most cases I feel she or he has the right to know and meet the truth. Just don't put us on the side burner as if we were not part of the situation. That seems to happen often.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

A close member of my family who married a sibling of my husband - annnounced awhile ago that she had had a child and wanted to search for the child. There was no problem, there was a reunion and as her adoptive parents are not well, there is developing a very strong bond - between the birth mother and the child (who by the way is an adult with a teenage daughter. 

We were visiting and the birth mother was telling me how great it was to have a relationship - I casually said how does the adoptive parents feel about it - She said, it is not my worry - they had her her whole life, it is my turn now. Absolutely no appreciation or consideration for the adoptive family -- she also said that she told her that she didn't like the adoptive family and I felt she was manipulative. She also knew that I was an adoptive mother. That attitude is not always the case, but sometimes it is. It isfueled in my opinion by the things people read in the paper in sympathy for the birth mother and the child. Most people who love their child want them to feel complete and even though it is stressful and worrisome, usually they do not fight the reunion. Some do and i think they make a mistake - unless it is a really bad story-- I still think it is right that when an adoptee is an adult, the choice should be theirs.

Our situation is different the birth mother sent me a Mother's day card for years and a thankyou card on L's birthday, so she appreciated what we had done and how we had loved our daughter. She still feels we are her parents but has a relationship -I am not sure how deep with E.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Peacegoddess, your list of statistics about beliefs surrounding rape sickens me as I suspect it will everyone who reads it. We learn what right behavior is starting from the day we're born, even though we don't know it. The attidudes noted in the survey rest on the foundation of what children learn in their formative years, IMO. *I have no idea how to get the majority of parents to teach their children of both sexes to respect each other and themselves. Respect of both kinds makes it a lot harder to do things that can't possibly be considered respectable.*Where to we go from here?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


I don't know I managed to do it but I posted a single remark a huge number of times. Sorry about that.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post,


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> A close member of my family who married a sibling of my husband - annnounced awhile ago that she had had a child and wanted to search for the child. There was no problem, there was a reunion and as her adoptive parents are not well, there is developing a very strong bond - between the birth mother and the child (who by the way is an adult with a teenage daughter.
> 
> We were visiting and the birth mother was telling me how great it was to have a relationship - I casually said how does the adoptive parents feel about it - She said, it is not my worry - they had her her whole life, it is my turn now. Absolutely no appreciation or consideration for the adoptive family -- she also said that she told her that she didn't like the adoptive family and I felt she was manipulative.


Ugh!  
The birth mom is certainly no prize--I sense a lot of jealousy in her as well as a fierce sense of rivalry toward the adoptive family.
I think it's true that the rights and even the feelings of adoptive parents are frequently overlooked--it's almost like people expect them to be grateful for any crumbs and scraps that fall their way through the adoption process. I wonder if it has anything to do with with society's traditional disdain for "barren women"? In this day and age that's ludicrous--especially as so many adoptive families also have or will have biological children of their own.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Maid - are you showing off your new bug with multiple postings? What kind is it?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


At what cost to the birth mother? If she wants no contact with the child she gave up for adoption, that request should remain honored. Should her new life be put into jeopardy because that adult child is curious about the biological mother? Maybe the mother told her new husband/boyfriend/SO of the adoption but if not, why should she have to deal with the possibility of her new life falling apart?

Would you then agree that the rights of children conceived by way of the sperm bank or a paid donor supersede the rights of the father's anonymity?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maid - are you showing off your new bug with multiple postings? What kind is it?


It's not a bug, it's a chorus line of birds.

Is admin going to pretend this is the user's problem (multi-duplicate posts), as they have in the past? It certainly happens a lot, and to different posters.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's not a bug, it's a chorus line of birds.
> 
> Is admin going to pretend this is the user's problem (multi-duplicate posts), as they have in the past? It certainly happens a lot, and to different posters.


Oh my! It looked like an interesting caterpillar. Birds? What beautiful colors. Inspirational for yarn.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Ugh!
> The birth mom is certainly no prize--I sense a lot of jealousy in her as well as a fierce sense of rivalry toward the adoptive family.
> I think it's true that the rights and even the feelings of adoptive parents are frequently overlooked--it's almost like people expect them to be grateful for any crumbs and scraps that fall their way through the adoption process. I wonder if it has anything to do with with society's traditional disdain for "barren women"? In this day and age that's ludicrous--especially as so many adoptive families also have or will have biological children of their own.


I agree - we lost two little girls - one a sids baby and another lived just an hour - much to early to survive.

For l0 years I thought how much I would like a little girl. I was leery of taking a chance on another pregnancy as the our history was not good and our specialist suggested that if we wanted any more children we should adopt. One day I casually mentioned at the table how I would love to adopt a little girl. Our l4 year old son said - wouldn't that be neat? Our l0 year old son said, Mom I would help you look after her. We talked about it as a family and we applied. It was just before birth control was discovered and as we were 40 we just got in and were able to adopt our child. Both boys adored her and so did my DH and I.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Maid - are you showing off your new bug with multiple postings? What kind is it?


No, I wasn't trying to show off any bug, new or otherwise. At least I managed to fix some of them because the hour allowed to update posts hadn't expired.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oh my! It looked like an interesting caterpillar. Birds? What beautiful colors. Inspirational for yarn.


I also thought caterpillar, so I enlarged it and there were their little beaks and tails. It's even more unusual than just one bug.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


Something to keep in mind, if the bio mom doesn't want to meet the child she gave up, then it is not going to be a positive experience for the adoptee anyway. And in fact it could traumatize them further by being rejected again. I think the only way it can be a positive experience is if both parties want to meet. These reunions don't always work out because sometimes the bio parents were just selfish to begin with.

That's the case with my daughter. Her bio dad is my brother in law. I've never met a more disgusting peice of humanity. He contacted my daughter through Facebook and then through the phone. He told her nothing but lies and even denied the existence of one of her half brothers. She had wanted to get to know him but was very hurt that he wouldn't be honest with her. He asked her if she wanted him to tell her bio mom how to contact her. She remembers her bio mom and doesnt want anything to do with her and said no, but he did anyway. Now this woman won't stop trying to contact her. Worse yet, the law has caught up with him and they are garnishing his pay for unpaid child support and unpaid school loans. He wanted to move in with his parents but they told him, they were getting ready to move back to Omaha. Now he's found out that they've sold their house and made the comment that they'd be coming into "big money". And he's talking about moving back to Omaha so he can get to know " his daughter". Its bull crap! He's gonna try and get their money. He'll try and will make their lives miserable. And it will be so hard on my daughter. The child support is for the kid he denied having. (Now, he admits it.). When the law finds him, he moves. He has had at least five kids that he doesn't see or support. He's lucky he hasn't had to support all of them. One was adopted by a step father. One was put up for adoption. One is our daughter. One is the child they're going after him for. And one was killed by the mothers boyfriend. Disgusting! Nothing good can come from this.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I'm sorry I didn't include the need for the adoptive parents to be in on any discussion with their adotped children about the whole idea of looking for birth parents. Two families are going to be facing the consequences if an adopted person searches for and finds their birth mother/family. I believe it would be wrong to brush the adoptive parents aside. After all they are the adopted person's "real" parents.


Designer1234 said:


> I agree , but I think it would help if all three were considered in the discussions. Watch the information - it is always about the birth mother and the child being reunited. If there was even the faintest interest in the Adoptive parents who feel that they are the parents, I would feel less negative about it. You feel as if the ground is shaking underneath you - and yet you love your child and want the best for her and in most cases I feel she or he has the right to know and meet the truth. Just don't put us on the side burner as if we were not part of the situation. That seems to happen often.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree that adoptee's rights take priority. Adoptive families are vital and biological parents are vital too. But adoptees are top of the list. IMHO

MIB, love your avatar. Birdies on a line.



MaidInBedlam said:


> Aren't most chldren given up for adoption conceived in less-than-ideal circumstances? I underatand what you're saying about the potential for shatteres lives, but it's a life altering experience anyway for adopted adults, their adoptive families and their birth families to go through when an adopted adult finds his/her birth mother. I think the rights of the adopted person superceed the rights of the birth mother.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

My sentiments exactly regarding duplicates.



Poor Purl said:


> It's not a bug, it's a chorus line of birds.
> 
> Is admin going to pretend this is the user's problem (multi-duplicate posts), as they have in the past? It certainly happens a lot, and to different posters.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so happy for all of you. A genuine success story for all.



Designer1234 said:


> I agree - we lost two little girls - one a sids baby and another lived just an hour - much to early to survive.
> 
> For l0 years I thought how much I would like a little girl. I was leery of taking a chance on another pregnancy as the our history was not good and our specialist suggested that if we wanted any more children we should adopt. One day I casually mentioned at the table how I would love to adopt a little girl. Our l4 year old son said - wouldn't that be neat? Our l0 year old son said, Mom I would help you look after her. We talked about it as a family and we applied. It was just before birth control was discovered and as we were 40 we just got in and were able to adopt our child. Both boys adored her and so did my DH and I.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> A sad example of not teaching our children what they need to live....cooking, cleaning, personal finance...and the list goes on.


My second year of teaching home ec I was in a system that hired me to teach grades 4 through 6. One class of 6th grade boys protested at needing to have sewing class. I asked them if they planned to call Mommy to come sew on buttons when they were in college. Got the cogs moving. The sewing project I assigned was for each one to bring in a tennis racket, fishing rod, baseball bat, glove and mitt, etc. Then we proceeded with them designing cases to sew to protect their equipment and carry the items safely. Got some math, some rudimentary mechanical drawing, and some art skills going. A couple of the more talented and quick working students ended up making something for either a Dad or big brother who was impressed.

The fifth grade boys had food prep classes and their session ended with a pizza party for parents and teachers. The boys and I got to school early to start the dough and let it rise, and I was able to get them excused a half period early to roll out the dough and assemble the pies.

We only had 6 week blocks for each discipline with each class, home ec, art, industrial arts, music and dance, so I tried to personalize the work to motivate the kids to take longer classes in middle or high school as electives.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't know I managed to do it but I posted a single remark a huge number of times. Sorry about that.


It is all those little beaks pecking away at your keyboard. They are lovely, though, so they are excused.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Something to keep in mind, if the bio mom doesn't want to meet the child she gave up, then it is not going to be a positive experience for the adoptee anyway. And in fact it could traumatize them further by being rejected again. I think the only way it can be a positive experience is if both parties want to meet. These reunions don't always work out because sometimes the bio parents were just selfish to begin with.
> 
> That's the case with my daughter. Her bio dad is my brother in law. I've never met a more disgusting peice of humanity. He contacted my daughter through Facebook and then through the phone. He told her nothing but lies and even denied the existence of one of her half brothers. She had wanted to get to know him but was very hurt that he wouldn't be honest with her. He asked her if she wanted him to tell her bio mom how to contact her. She remembers her bio mom and doesnt want anything to do with her and said no, but he did anyway. Now this woman won't stop trying to contact her. Worse yet, the law has caught up with him and they are garnishing his pay for unpaid child support and unpaid school loans. He wanted to move in with his parents but they told him, they were getting ready to move back to Omaha. Now he's found out that they've sold their house and made the comment that they'd be coming into "big money". And he's talking about moving back to Omaha so he can get to know " his daughter". Its bull crap! He's gonna try and get their money. He'll try and will make their lives miserable. And it will be so hard on my daughter. The child support is for the kid he denied having. (Now, he admits it.). When the law finds him, he moves. He has had at least five kids that he doesn't see or support. He's lucky he hasn't had to support all of them. One was adopted by a step father. One was put up for adoption. One is our daughter. One is the child they're going after him for. And one was killed by the mothers boyfriend. Disgusting! Nothing good can come from this.


Your daughter is lucky to have a loving stable home with you. Can you get a restraining order or an order of protection against this disgusting man? That way if he tries to harass your daughter, you can take action against him to remove him from your lives.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Wise choices in sewing. My son, in the Navy, was asked to sew buttons, and patches on uniforms for others. He did have sewing in 7th grade along with watching me sew just about everything. When he came home, he told me to use dental floss to sew buttons. When he needed black thread, he colored the dental floss with a marker.


Wonderful. Manly men can do anything they need to do to be independent and self sufficient.

My dad was the first boy after 6 sisters, and Grandma worked in the upholstery shop with Grandpa. As soon as Dad was old enough, the girls taught him how to cook, sew, do his laundry, etc. They said they had to do their chores to help Grandma and Grandpa run the business to support them, and just because he was a boy he wasn't about to get out of doing his share. He was the one who figured out how to tat and taught Mother and me.

It was cute, my aunts nicknamed him Sonny. All my cousins called him Uncle Sonny.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bravo Teach!



MarilynKnits said:


> My second year of teaching home ec I was in a system that hired me to teach grades 4 through 6. One class of 6th grade boys protested at needing to have sewing class. I asked them if they planned to call Mommy to come sew on buttons when they were in college. Got the cogs moving. The sewing project I assigned was for each one to bring in a tennis racket, fishing rod, baseball bat, glove and mitt, etc. Then we proceeded with them designing cases to sew to protect their equipment and carry the items safely. Got some math, some rudimentary mechanical drawing, and some art skills going. A couple of the more talented and quick working students ended up making something for either a Dad or big brother who was impressed.
> 
> The fifth grade boys had food prep classes and their session ended with a pizza party for parents and teachers. The boys and I got to school early to start the dough and let it rise, and I was able to get them excused a half period early to roll out the dough and assemble the pies.
> 
> We only had 6 week blocks for each discipline with each class, home ec, art, industrial arts, music and dance, so I tried to personalize the work to motivate the kids to take longer classes in middle or high school as electives.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO the best thing to do is find someone to talk to in local police department. File for Restraining Order if they recommend it. The idea is to make police aware of the situation. Call and document if you receive calls. If you see him, call the police immediately.



MarilynKnits said:


> Your daughter is lucky to have a loving stable home with you. Can you get a restraining order or an order of protection against this disgusting man? That way if he tries to harass your daughter, you can take action against him to remove him from your lives.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Your daughter is lucky to have a loving stable home with you. Can you get a restraining order or an order of protection against this disgusting man? That way if he tries to harass your daughter, you can take action against him to remove him from your lives.


I don't know. Don't you have to be in physical danger to get a restraining order? I think we'll see how she handles it. She's pretty strong and I'm sure her fiancée would step in. I'm more concerned about my husband's folks. Its their money he's gonna be after. I'm going into "mama bear" mode.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know. Don't you have to be in physical danger to get a restraining order? I think we'll see how she handles it. She's pretty strong and I'm sure her fiancée would step in. I'm more concerned about my husband's folks. Its their money he's gonna be after. I'm going into "mama bear" mode.


Good luck. Perhaps make sure it is legal, but record incoming phone calls or screen calls and save the answering machine messages to screen for threats, veiled or outright. If this man is using illegal substances, he could be dangerous.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> At what cost to the birth mother? If she wants no contact with the child she gave up for adoption, that request should remain honored. Should her new life be put into jeopardy because that adult child is curious about the biological mother? Maybe the mother told her new husband/boyfriend/SO of the adoption but if not, why should she have to deal with the possibility of her new life falling apart?
> 
> Would you then agree that the rights of children conceived by way of the sperm bank or a paid donor supersede the rights of the father's anonymity?


soloweygirl
I would think that when we marry we are honest about our past and if for example adopting out a child is not acceptable to the new partner, the partner may not be suitable. As to contacting a Birthmother, each case is unique and should be handled as such. Adoptees should have priority but there can never be a rule of thumb as to what to do. Hard for those involved.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

As far as I know, both parties have to consent before a meeting is arranged. So there is really not much of an issue as to who is the contactor and contactee.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Something to keep in mind, if the bio mom doesn't want to meet the child she gave up, then it is not going to be a positive experience for the adoptee anyway. And in fact it could traumatize them further by being rejected again. I think the only way it can be a positive experience is if both parties want to meet. These reunions don't always work out because sometimes the bio parents were just selfish to begin with.
> 
> That's the case with my daughter. Her bio dad is my brother in law. I've never met a more disgusting peice of humanity. He contacted my daughter through Facebook and then through the phone. He told her nothing but lies and even denied the existence of one of her half brothers. She had wanted to get to know him but was very hurt that he wouldn't be honest with her. He asked her if she wanted him to tell her bio mom how to contact her. She remembers her bio mom and doesnt want anything to do with her and said no, but he did anyway. Now this woman won't stop trying to contact her. Worse yet, the law has caught up with him and they are garnishing his pay for unpaid child support and unpaid school loans. He wanted to move in with his parents but they told him, they were getting ready to move back to Omaha. Now he's found out that they've sold their house and made the comment that they'd be coming into "big money". And he's talking about moving back to Omaha so he can get to know " his daughter". Its bull crap! He's gonna try and get their money. He'll try and will make their lives miserable. And it will be so hard on my daughter. The child support is for the kid he denied having. (Now, he admits it.). When the law finds him, he moves. He has had at least five kids that he doesn't see or support. He's lucky he hasn't had to support all of them. One was adopted by a step father. One was put up for adoption. One is our daughter. One is the child they're going after him for. And one was killed by the mothers boyfriend. Disgusting! Nothing good can come from this.


The above brings to mind the old Aussie saying "two bricks and a bottle of tomato sauce behind the outside dunny should do the trick." I could never understand why they needed the tomato sauce but I do think it is time he had the big snip, it should have been done years ago.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My second year of teaching home ec I was in a system that hired me to teach grades 4 through 6. One class of 6th grade boys protested at needing to have sewing class. I asked them if they planned to call Mommy to come sew on buttons when they were in college. Got the cogs moving. The sewing project I assigned was for each one to bring in a tennis racket, fishing rod, baseball bat, glove and mitt, etc. Then we proceeded with them designing cases to sew to protect their equipment and carry the items safely. Got some math, some rudimentary mechanical drawing, and some art skills going. A couple of the more talented and quick working students ended up making something for either a Dad or big brother who was impressed.
> 
> The fifth grade boys had food prep classes and their session ended with a pizza party for parents and teachers. The boys and I got to school early to start the dough and let it rise, and I was able to get them excused a half period early to roll out the dough and assemble the pies.
> 
> We only had 6 week blocks for each discipline with each class, home ec, art, industrial arts, music and dance, so I tried to personalize the work to motivate the kids to take longer classes in middle or high school as electives.


When my youngest son started high school, year 7, all the boys had to take sewing and cooking and the girls had to take manual arts, metal work, woodwork. He came home very excited and next week turned up with a completed apron, sewn on my sewing machine, complete with fancy stitches from the cams the machine used and a motif sewn on the front. I had to work really hard to convince the school that he had done it himself, I had taught him to use the machine when he was about 7 years old. He also knew how to cook. I taught all three children to be self sufficient at a very early age. With my eldest son, I had to teach him how to make a cuppa coffee when he was 4 years old. He and his sister, aged 3, woke me up about 6.00 am one cold winter's morning with a cuppa, they knew I loved a cuppa first thing. Only thing was, they had not let the kettle boil, so the coffee was only lukewarm. Worse still, they said "mummy we could not get the coffee to go black, it kept turning brown". Yes, I drink my coffee black. They had added coffee, tea leaves - well they were black - vegemite, milo, and I do not know what else. Then they stood at the side of the bed with eyes as big as saucers waiting for me to drink it. Well, it was either teach them how to make a decent cuppa or be woken with a cup of coffee that refused to turn black. They then wanted to know how to sew buttons on their clothes and do mending, to save me a job. Both the older children are gourmet cooks and both can, and do, sew. My eldest son's second wife could neither cook nor sew, her mother would not let her in the kitchen when she was young because 'she would only make a mess' and 'only poor people sewed their own clothes'. His first wife was an excellent needlewoman. She made her own bridal gown plus the outfit her mother wore and the one I wore. She could also cook extremely delicious meals. She had three daughters by my son whilst they were married and she has made the bridal gowns and bridesmaid's gowns for all three weddings. My son said that was why he married her, she reminded him of me, always sewing and cooking. The youngest son did the hospitality course at TAFE but decided he did not want to be a cook, too many temperamental cooks out there in the commercial kitchens. If anyone yells at him he goes into an autistic meltdown. He studied cooking right through high school and loved it, just hated it at TAFE.

Just an added after thought. My son has been married three times, the same as his father and his father's father. I think it must be a genetic thing.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> I would think that when we marry we are honest about our past and if for example adopting out a child is not acceptable to the new partner, the partner may not be suitable. As to contacting a Birthmother, each case is unique and should be handled as such. Adoptees should have priority but there can never be a rule of thumb as to what to do. Hard for those involved.


Certainly it is hard in most cases for the birth parent to surrender the child. All of us who have given birth and raised our children can't imagine a circumstance that wouldn't have been traumatic to never see the child again.

But let us focus on the adoptive parents. They are handed a child whose genetic history is a mystery. Is there mental illness, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, BRCA gene, any number of health and life threatening issues that could affect the child and the family dynamic? Is there the least chance the adoption could be overturned after the family has bonded and the child is a beloved son or daughter, grandchild, niece or nephew?

Then the adoptive mother and father (or nowadays it could be two fathers or two mothers) build a family, ideally with love, structure, and mutual sacrifice inherent to all parents. They are the ones who walk the floor with a crying infant, take time off work to go to the doctor, to see the child's school plays, to cheer the athlete, sit through music lessons, help with homework. All us parents know the drill to be effective, loving parents.

If there is a reunion with the birth parent and the grown child, the adoptive family deserves to be respected, acknowledged, and appreciated. The adoptive parents are as much heroes as natural parents who start with a little cuddly blob and help shape a person. In very many cases they are the superheroes who rescue that cuddly bundle from what could have been a horrible life of deprivation.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> The above brings to mind the old Aussie saying "two bricks and a bottle of tomato sauce behind the outside dunny should do the trick." I could never understand why they needed the tomato sauce but I do think it is time he had the big snip, it should have been done years ago.


I agree! He has five children that we know of. I can only imagine how many more. I'd love to give him the old snip snip. I did however, talk the bio mom into getting her tubes tied after her third child. At least she isn't ruining anyone else's life.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> When my youngest son started high school, year 7, all the boys had to take sewing and cooking and the girls had to take manual arts, metal work, woodwork. He came home very excited and next week turned up with a completed apron, sewn on my sewing machine, complete with fancy stitches from the cams the machine used and a motif sewn on the front. I had to work really hard to convince the school that he had done it himself, I had taught him to use the machine when he was about 7 years old. He also knew how to cook. I taught all three children to be self sufficient at a very early age. With my eldest son, I had to teach him how to make a cuppa coffee when he was 4 years old. He and his sister, aged 3, woke me up about 6.00 am one cold winter's morning with a cuppa, they knew I loved a cuppa first thing. Only thing was, they had not let the kettle boil, so the coffee was only lukewarm. Worse still, they said "mummy we could not get the coffee to go black, it kept turning brown". Yes, I drink my coffee black. They had added coffee, tea leaves - well they were black - vegemite, milo, and I do not know what else. Then they stood at the side of the bed with eyes as big as saucers waiting for me to drink it. Well, it was either teach them how to make a decent cuppa or be woken with a cup of coffee that refused to turn black. They then wanted to know how to sew buttons on their clothes and do mending, to save me a job. Both the older children are gourmet cooks and both can, and do, sew. My eldest son's second wife could neither cook nor sew, her mother would not let her in the kitchen when she was young because 'she would only make a mess' and 'only poor people sewed their own clothes'. His first wife was an excellent needlewoman. She made her own bridal gown plus the outfit her mother wore and the one I wore. She could also cook extremely delicious meals. She had three daughters by my son whilst they were married and she has made the bridal gowns and bridesmaid's gowns for all three weddings. My son said that was why he married her, she reminded him of me, always sewing and cooking. The youngest son did the hospitality course at TAFE but decided he did not want to be a cook, too many temperamental cooks out there in the commercial kitchens. If anyone yells at him he goes into an autistic meltdown. He studied cooking right through high school and loved it, just hated it at TAFE.
> 
> Just an added after thought. My son has been married three times, the same as his father and his father's father. I think it must be a genetic thing.


I love your story. It brings to mind all of the mother's days when I got breakfast in bed. Burnt eggs, burnt bacon and burnt toast. With daddy's help, of course. When the boys were older, dating, engaged, married, I started fixing a big fancy breakfast every Sunday morning to assure that everyone would get together, at least once a week. My hubby would cook on mother's day, until one of our daughters in law got up the guts to say let US cook the breakfast. He said, no no, I can do it. She said, no really. We don't like burnt eggs.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Certainly it is hard in most cases for the birth parent to surrender the child. All of us who have given birth and raised our children can't imagine a circumstance that wouldn't have been traumatic to never see the child again.
> 
> But let us focus on the adoptive parents. They are handed a child whose genetic history is a mystery. Is there mental illness, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, BRCA gene, any number of health and life threatening issues that could affect the child and the family dynamic? Is there the least chance the adoption could be overturned after the family has bonded and the child is a beloved son or daughter, grandchild, niece or nephew?
> 
> ...


We lived with the constant fear that our daughter would be taken from us. At first we didn't have legal custody. They'd just shoved her in our arms and practically pushed us out the door. They had a party to get to. Really! My life became a "made for TV movie". The bio mom wanted money. The bio dad wanted out. At the time we were fighting to keep her safe, every TV station was covering the baby Jessica case where an adoption was overturned after two years. Bio mom actually said " I will rip her from your arms screaming, just like baby Jessica". That's when we contacted a lawyer. She didnt want the baby back. She was going to take her and put her in foster care. Our adoption took two years to complete because the judge stated that we would dot every "i" and cross every "t". The adoption would never be overturned. Bio parents wouldn't talk to their lawyer because he was black. They went to less than half of their supervised visits and didn't even bother to show up for the final court date. She was ours! And believe me. We are no heroes! Any human would have done the same. Her very life was in danger. And we have been blessed many time over.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! He has five children that we know of. I can only imagine how many more. I'd love to give him the old snip snip. I did however, talk the bio mom into getting her tubes tied after her third child. At least she isn't ruining anyone else's life.


Good for you. I am very glad that someone could take positive action. :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Certainly it is hard in most cases for the birth parent to surrender the child. All of us who have given birth and raised our children can't imagine a circumstance that wouldn't have been traumatic to never see the child again.
> 
> But let us focus on the adoptive parents. They are handed a child whose genetic history is a mystery. Is there mental illness, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, BRCA gene, any number of health and life threatening issues that could affect the child and the family dynamic? Is there the least chance the adoption could be overturned after the family has bonded and the child is a beloved son or daughter, grandchild, niece or nephew?
> 
> ...


you called it right -- it is a scary but wonderful journey.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We lived with the constant fear that our daughter would be taken from us. At first we didn't have legal custody. They'd just shoved her in our arms and practically pushed us out the door. They had a party to get to. Really! My life became a "made for TV movie". The bio mom wanted money. The bio dad wanted out. At the time we were fighting to keep her safe, every TV station was covering the baby Jessica case where an adoption was overturned after two years. Bio mom actually said " I will rip her from your arms screaming, just like baby Jessica". That's when we contacted a lawyer. She didnt want the baby back. She was going to take her and put her in foster care. Our adoption took two years to complete because the judge stated that we would dot every "i" and cross every "t". The adoption would never be overturned. Bio parents wouldn't talk to their lawyer because he was black. They went to less than half of their supervised visits and didn't even bother to show up for the final court date. She was ours! And believe me. We are no heroes! Any human would have done the same. Her very life was in danger. And we have been blessed many time over.


Nebraska-- I can imagine what you went through. Our adoption was much easier - but I feel a kindred spirit with you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree! He has five children that we know of. I can only imagine how many more. I'd love to give him the old snip snip. I did however, talk the bio mom into getting her tubes tied after her third child. At least she isn't ruining anyone else's life.


I would recommend the snipping be done kind of high, just above the shoulders. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We lived with the constant fear that our daughter would be taken from us. At first we didn't have legal custody. They'd just shoved her in our arms and practically pushed us out the door. They had a party to get to. Really! My life became a "made for TV movie". The bio mom wanted money. The bio dad wanted out. At the time we were fighting to keep her safe, every TV station was covering the baby Jessica case where an adoption was overturned after two years. Bio mom actually said " I will rip her from your arms screaming, just like baby Jessica". That's when we contacted a lawyer. She didnt want the baby back. She was going to take her and put her in foster care. Our adoption took two years to complete because the judge stated that we would dot every "i" and cross every "t". The adoption would never be overturned. Bio parents wouldn't talk to their lawyer because he was black. They went to less than half of their supervised visits and didn't even bother to show up for the final court date. She was ours! And believe me. We are no heroes! Any human would have done the same. Her very life was in danger. And we have been blessed many time over.


Your story is a wonderful one, even if you aren't heroes. Which, of course, you are.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Duplicate post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> I agree that adoptee's rights take priority. Adoptive families are vital and biological parents are vital too. But adoptees are top of the list. IMHO
> 
> MIB, love your avatar. Birdies on a line.


One of my friends sent it to me in an email and I couldn't resist using it, though I was very happy with my little cabin.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> When my youngest son started high school, year 7, all the boys had to take sewing and cooking and the girls had to take manual arts, metal work, woodwork. He came home very excited and next week turned up with a completed apron, sewn on my sewing machine, complete with fancy stitches from the cams the machine used and a motif sewn on the front. I had to work really hard to convince the school that he had done it himself, I had taught him to use the machine when he was about 7 years old. He also knew how to cook. I taught all three children to be self sufficient at a very early age. With my eldest son, I had to teach him how to make a cuppa coffee when he was 4 years old. He and his sister, aged 3, woke me up about 6.00 am one cold winter's morning with a cuppa, they knew I loved a cuppa first thing. Only thing was, they had not let the kettle boil, so the coffee was only lukewarm. Worse still, they said "mummy we could not get the coffee to go black, it kept turning brown". Yes, I drink my coffee black. They had added coffee, tea leaves - well they were black - vegemite, milo, and I do not know what else. Then they stood at the side of the bed with eyes as big as saucers waiting for me to drink it. Well, it was either teach them how to make a decent cuppa or be woken with a cup of coffee that refused to turn black. They then wanted to know how to sew buttons on their clothes and do mending, to save me a job. Both the older children are gourmet cooks and both can, and do, sew. My eldest son's second wife could neither cook nor sew, her mother would not let her in the kitchen when she was young because 'she would only make a mess' and 'only poor people sewed their own clothes'. His first wife was an excellent needlewoman. She made her own bridal gown plus the outfit her mother wore and the one I wore. She could also cook extremely delicious meals. She had three daughters by my son whilst they were married and she has made the bridal gowns and bridesmaid's gowns for all three weddings. My son said that was why he married her, she reminded him of me, always sewing and cooking. The youngest son did the hospitality course at TAFE but decided he did not want to be a cook, too many temperamental cooks out there in the commercial kitchens. If anyone yells at him he goes into an autistic meltdown. He studied cooking right through high school and loved it, just hated it at TAFE.
> 
> Just an added after thought. My son has been married three times, the same as his father and his father's father. I think it must be a genetic thing.


My story pales next to yours, but it has a funny twist. When my son was about two, he asked whether he could help me sew some buttons on a sweater. So I sat down with him and showed him how to do it carefully; since the needle was for yarn, it wasn't sharp. He was having a good time and was very proud. In the middle of this, my father-in-law walked in and saw what S was doing. He got very angry. "Sewing is for girls, not for boys!" So we put the sweater and buttons aside for later.

The twist here is that f-i-l worked in a necktie factory, doing whatever hand-sewing had to be done. Maybe he was afraid that S would end up doing the same thing.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

That's truly a horrible story. Can your daughter get a restraining order? The bio-father would probably ignore it, but with all the other garbage he's pulling maybe there's a way to get him sent to jail for a while.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Something to keep in mind, if the bio mom doesn't want to meet the child she gave up, then it is not going to be a positive experience for the adoptee anyway. And in fact it could traumatize them further by being rejected again. I think the only way it can be a positive experience is if both parties want to meet. These reunions don't always work out because sometimes the bio parents were just selfish to begin with.
> 
> That's the case with my daughter. Her bio dad is my brother in law. I've never met a more disgusting peice of humanity. He contacted my daughter through Facebook and then through the phone. He told her nothing but lies and even denied the existence of one of her half brothers. She had wanted to get to know hm how to contact her. She remembers her bio mom and doesnt want anything to do with her and said no, but he did anyway. Nim but was very hurt that he wouldn't be honest with her. He asked her if she wanted him to tell her bio moow this woman won't stop trying to contact her. Worse yet, the law has caught up with him and they are garnishing his pay for unpaid child support and unpaid school loans. He wanted to move in with his parents but they told him, they were getting ready to move back to Omaha. Now he's found out that they've sold their house and made the comment that they'd be coming into "big money". And he's talking about moving back to Omaha so he can get to know " his daughter". Its bull crap! He's gonna try and get their money. He'll try and will make their lives miserable. And it will be so hard on my daughter. The child support is for the kid he denied having. (Now, he admits it.). When the law finds him, he moves. He has had at least five kids that he doesn't see or support. He's lucky he hasn't had to support all of them. One was adopted by a step father. One was put up for adoption. One is our daughter. One is the child they're going after him for. And one was killed by the mothers boyfriend. Disgusting! Nothing good can come from this.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Another duplicate post. Arrrggghh. :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> you called it right -- it is a scary but wonderful journey.


I agree


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Nebraska-- I can imagine what you went through. Our adoption was much easier - but I feel a kindred spirit with you.


Ditto


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I would recommend the snipping be done kind of high, just above the shoulders. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:


Ahahahahaha!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> That's truly a horrible story. Can your daughter get a restraining order? The bio-father would probably ignore it, but with all the other garbage he's pulling maybe there's a way to get him sent to jail for a while.


I talked to her last night. She's not worried and kind of wants to tell him what she thinks. She changed her phone number a few months ago and told me some story about how the cell phone company wouldn't let her keep her old number. But now she says it was so he couldn't call her. He doesn't have her number or know where she lives and nobody will tell him. I don't think he cares anyway. He's just going to tell his folks that he's coming to Omaha to be near her. But the real reason will be to get their money. None of us are physically afraid of him. He weighs about 100 lbs and is a chicken sh#t. A most disgusting peice of humanity.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I've said something about the rights of the adoptive parents already, but let me emphasize how important I think they are. They are the adopted person's parents. Period. The birth mother might have wished she could keep her child, but whatever the reasons the birth mother had for giving her child up, she still is responsible for the decision she made. Part of the adoption process should include making the birth mother and father give up their parental rights, even if the adopted person finds them and they all want to have a relationship. May this is already being done. I hope so

I've said something about this, too. I don't understand why adoptive parents can't be given as complete a medical history as possible, for the sake of the child, at the time of adoption. Surely this could be done without including any information that might identify the birth mother or her family.


MarilynKnits said:


> Certainly it is hard in most cases for the birth parent to surrender the child. All of us who have given birth and raised our children can't imagine a circumstance that wouldn't have been traumatic to never see the child again.
> 
> But let us focus on the adoptive parents. They are handed a child whose genetic history is a mystery. Is there mental illness, diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, BRCA gene, any number of health and life threatening issues that could affect the child and the family dynamic? Is there the least chance the adoption could be overturned after the family has bonded and the child is a beloved son or daughter, grandchild, niece or nephew?
> 
> ...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> We lived with the constant fear that our daughter would be taken from us. At first we didn't have legal custody. They'd just shoved her in our arms and practically pushed us out the door. They had a party to get to. Really! My life became a "made for TV movie". The bio mom wanted money. The bio dad wanted out. At the time we were fighting to keep her safe, every TV station was covering the baby Jessica case where an adoption was overturned after two years. Bio mom actually said " I will rip her from your arms screaming, just like baby Jessica". That's when we contacted a lawyer. She didnt want the baby back. She was going to take her and put her in foster care. Our adoption took two years to complete because the judge stated that we would dot every "i" and cross every "t". The adoption would never be overturned. Bio parents wouldn't talk to their lawyer because he was black. They went to less than half of their supervised visits and didn't even bother to show up for the final court date. She was ours! And believe me. We are no heroes! Any human would have done the same. Her very life was in danger. And we have been blessed many time over.


As far as I am concerned another definition in the Thesaurus for "heroes" should be "parents". I am happy for your family that love and goodness prevailed. There are too many really, really stupid judges out there, unfortunately.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

I read Leonard Pitts column today and was brought near tears by the story. Here is an example of the real and horrific war on women

Leonard Pitts Jr.: Forced faith is not faith
Posted Monday, Jun. 02, 2014

By LEONARD PITTS JR.

The Miami Herald

In a prison in Khartoum, a dusty city on the banks of the ancient Nile in the African nation of Sudan, Meriam Yehya Ibrahim waits.

She is not alone in her confinement. Her son is with her. He is 20 months old. Her daughter is there, too. She was born in that prison one week ago.

Together with their 27-year old mother, they wait. Wait for her deliverance, wait for her execution by hanging. There is no middle ground.

Ibrahim stands convicted of apostasy; she renounced Islam and became a Christian. According to Ibrahim - and the speaker of the Sudanese Parliament disputes this - she was raised a Christian after her father, a Muslim, abandoned the family when she was 6. Under Sudanese law, anyone whose father was a Muslim is automatically considered a Muslim. Converting from Islam is against the law and Muslim women are forbidden from marrying outside their faith.

Ibrahim's "crimes" against that code were apparently reported by her own brother. She was tried and ordered to disavow her faith by May 15. But she refused to do so and for that, they gave her the death penalty. Before she dies, she is to be whipped 100 lashes, the court having also found her guilty of adultery. This, for having sexual relations with her husband, Daniel Wani, a Sudanese Christian who has U.S. citizenship.

Her death, thank God, is not imminent. Ibrahim's lawyer is appealing her sentence. And the court has given her two years to nurse and wean her daughter before it is carried out. So Ibrahim waits. Outraged governments in more civilized places - including the United States - have urged Sudan not to do this evil thing. Petition drives have netted 650,000 signatures in the same cause. So, like Ibrahim herself, the world waits.

And watches.

And wonders:

Is there no end to the barbarism that men - and usually, it is men - will commit under the rubric of faith?

The Bible defines faith as "confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see."

Martin Luther King defined it as "taking the first step, even when you don't see the whole staircase."

But it is too often the case that in practical terms, faith has less to do with hope and assurance and the courage to take steps in the dark than with justifying just this kind of theological bullying. How in the world does Sudan - or any nation or group - believe it can "require" faith? Can faith ever truly be faith if it is imposed by force of law or threat of violence? Is faith faith if it is not freely chosen? If someone swore at gunpoint that she loved you, would you believe her?

You'd be a fool if you did.

Unfortunately, many of those who claim to be faith's most zealous defenders do not trust what they profess to believe, have no confidence that its appeal is strong enough that people will come to it and stay with it by the free movement of their hearts. They insult their own religions by suggesting people must be held to them - and shielded from other beliefs - by government and/or by violence. We see that in Sudan. We have seen it in Nigeria, Afghanistan, Pakistan, America. What they model is not faith but fear, not the still small voice that compels footsteps on unseen stairs, but the loud, shrill outcry of cowards whose belief is so fragile as to totter at the first gust of contradiction, so frail as to require the enforcement of laws.

Meriam Ibrahim could have been free - perhaps still could be free - with a few simple words: Jesus is not Lord. She wouldn't even have to mean it. Just mouth the words and get out. Surely, you think, Jesus himself would understand if she did.

But she won't. Instead she waits, ready to accept whatever comes. Let her captors note her courage and perhaps finally understand the tragic futility of what they do.

Laws don't give faith. And laws cannot take it away.

ABOUT THE WRITER

Leonard Pitts Jr., winner of the 2004 Pulitzer Prize for commentary, is a columnist for the Miami Herald, 3511 N.W. 91 Avenue, Doral, Fla. 33172. Readers may write to him via email at lpitt[email protected]

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2014/06/01/5863622/leonard-pitts-jr-forced-faith.html#storylink=cpy


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> As far as I am concerned another definition in the Thesaurus for "heroes" should be "parents". I am happy for your family that love and goodness prevailed. There are too many really, really stupid judges out there, unfortunately.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Your daughter probably already knows this, but if not, and the bleeping father has a cell phone and she doesn't use the ID blocking feature, your daughter's number will be there for him to use in the future, if he dares. She might want to look for a pay phone, though they're pretty scarce. I have a feeling that when she tells him what she tells thinks, it'll be a real scorcher, no matter how polite her language is.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I talked to her last night. She's not worried and kind of wants to tell him what she thinks. She changed her phone number a few months ago and told me some story about how the cell phone company wouldn't let her keep her old number. But now she says it was so he couldn't call her. He doesn't have her number or know where she lives and nobody will tell him. I don't think he cares anyway. He's just going to tell his folks that he's coming to Omaha to be near her. But the real reason will be to get their money. None of us are physically afraid of him. He weighs about 100 lbs and is a chicken sh#t. A most disgusting peice of humanity.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maryann1701 said:


> I have been watching you for months. We arent all stupid


You have been watching her? What are you? Some sort of internet stalker? It seems like you came on this thread to cause more discourse. I would say the troll is you.
Tea? I would pick you out to be the "lemon in her tea" kind.
Your remarks are very sour.

"you do the Hokey Pokey and you turn yourself around...."


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> May I bring up a new war on women? The Cancer Industry. We all know that it must be a zillion dollar industry, globally. Why does the research focus seem to be on treatment rather than cure? How many people would lose their jobs if cancer was ever cured? How would a cancer cure affect our economy? ?????


 I don't think they have ever given up on trying to find the cure, SQ. Many scientists have been close. The rain forests were a great place for them to do their research. But now, many are being cut down for freeways and condo complexes. I made a wish at age 10 that in my lifetime they would find the cure. 
I am grateful for the treatments that they do have. We have come along way, baby!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Why is Komen giving money to planned Parenthood? I will no longer support Komen.


My guess would be that if there is more access to mammograms and screenings for breast cancer, the less deaths we wil suffer. Careful there, joey, your comment could be taken as artillary for the war on women.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't think they have ever given up on trying to find the cure, SQ. Many scientists have been close. The rain forests were a great place for them to do their research. But now, many are being cut down for freeways and condo complexes. I made a wish at age 10 that in my lifetime they would find the cure.
> I am grateful for the treatments that they do have. We have come along way, baby!


http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/medicines
I'm also thankful for the advances in cancer treatment, but the fact remains, the "cut, burn, poison" treatment is still widely used.
The link is a list of chemo drugs currently used to treat breast cancer, and further down the page is a list of combo cocktails commonly used. My treatment of over 20 years ago is still there along with most I've heard of still being used. I'm always amazed that the treatment really hasn't changed that much.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/medicines
> I'm also thankful for the advances in cancer treatment, but the fact remains, the "cut, burn, poison" treatment is still widely used.
> The link is a list of chemo drugs currently used to treat breast cancer, and further down the page is a list of combo cocktails commonly used. My treatment of over 20 years ago is still there along with most I've heard of still being used. I'm always amazed that the treatment really hasn't changed that much.


Thanks for the link, al! I am sorry you have been going through this for so long and I am most grateful that you are still here!
I wish there was another way to fight this horrible disease.
With the way things are going in the world today, I am afraid that the money will be pulled from researchers who are trying to find the cure. I will walk every year to raise money to help these researchers. This year maybe not. Your klutzy friend has an injured foot. Brynn's rocking chair attacked me.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks for the link, al! I am sorry you have been going through this for so long and I am most grateful that you are still here!
> I wish there was another way to fight this horrible disease.
> With the way things are going in the world today, I am afraid that the money will be pulled from researchers who are trying to find the cure. I will walk every year to raise money to help these researchers. This year maybe not. Your klutzy friend has an injured foot. Brynn's rocking chair attacked me.


I guess I didn't make myself clear. I had treatment 20 years ago, and the stuff they used then is STILL being used today. I recognize many of the drugs used that are still on that list. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.
I'm glad I'm still here, too!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess I didn't make myself clear. I had treatment 20 years ago, and the stuff they used then is STILL being used today. I recognize many of the drugs used that are still on that list. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.
> I'm glad I'm still here, too!


How is it going Al? Get in touch with us when you are finished your test. It is supposed to be an easy test.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/medicines
> I'm also thankful for the advances in cancer treatment, but the fact remains, the "cut, burn, poison" treatment is still widely used.
> The link is a list of chemo drugs currently used to treat breast cancer, and further down the page is a list of combo cocktails commonly used. My treatment of over 20 years ago is still there along with most I've heard of still being used. I'm always amazed that the treatment really hasn't changed that much.


Well, thankfully it's beginning to. My brother just got word today that he's been accepted into a research study that involves immunotherapy--tweaking the body's immune system so that it hunts down and destroys cancer cells. We're very thankful--Brother's doctors seemed to be running out of conventional chemo drugs to try, so this couldn't have come at a better time.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> How is it going Al? Get in touch with us when you are finished your test. It is supposed to be an easy test.


The test is tomorrow morning and the prep is tonight when I have to drink the first of two liters of liquid that tastes like pig swill. (Whatever that is) I've had it before, so I know how awful it is. I'm chilling the swill to make it go down easier and I'll lick a lemon after each gulp to get the taste out of my mouth.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, thankfully it's beginning to. My brother just got word today that he's been accepted into a research study that involves immunotherapy--tweaking the body's immune system so that it hunts down and destroys cancer cells. We're very thankful--Brother's doctors seemed to be running out of conventional chemo drugs to try, so this couldn't have come at a better time.


I have a friend who needs to have treatment for a type of leukemia. Sometimes it's difficult to find a study for which the person meets all the criteria. Sometimes the studies exist but there's no institution within the patient's comfortable travel time. She's "on hold" right now. I hope your brother gets some benefit from the experimental drugs.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, thankfully it's beginning to. My brother just got word today that he's been accepted into a research study that involves immunotherapy--tweaking the body's immune system so that it hunts down and destroys cancer cells. We're very thankful--Brother's doctors seemed to be running out of conventional chemo drugs to try, so this couldn't have come at a better time.


Can't say how much I hope for you and especially for your brother that it works. I have been reading about the still limited success testing immunotherapy in treating cancers, with two people being cancer free, but not the others, unfortunately. But it sounds so promising, and I hope it works.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The test is tomorrow morning and the prep is tonight when I have to drink the first of two liters of liquid that tastes like pig swill. (Whatever that is) I've had it before, so I know how awful it is. I'm chilling the swill to make it go down easier and I'll lick a lemon after each gulp to get the taste out of my mouth.


My husband calls it anti freeze. No matter which flavor packet we put in, it tastes gross. Shame we can't add rum!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I guess I didn't make myself clear. I had treatment 20 years ago, and the stuff they used then is STILL being used today. I recognize many of the drugs used that are still on that list. Sorry if I didn't make myself clear.
> I'm glad I'm still here, too!


 I was wondering how you looked so good on vacation last year. After I reread your reply the light bulb came on  Good luck with the test.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Can't say how much I hope for you and especially for your brother that it works. I have been reading about the still limited success testing immunotherapy in treating cancers, with two people being cancer free, but not the others, unfortunately. But it sounds so promising, and I hope it works.


Yes, it does sound promising--when it works it really works, but as you point out not everyone is so fortunate. Still, Brother is all smiles--he was about to give up on traditional chemo anyway because the treatments were making him so ill, and now he has this. Whether it's successful or not the side effects are far less, and that's something to be thankful for.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> The test is tomorrow morning and the prep is tonight when I have to drink the first of two liters of liquid that tastes like pig swill. (Whatever that is) I've had it before, so I know how awful it is. I'm chilling the swill to make it go down easier and I'll lick a lemon after each gulp to get the taste out of my mouth.


Bleah! Sounds as foul as barium--never had it myself, but I heard somewhere that it's like drinking liquified chalk.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I am so glad that I not a Republican right now. Some are using the soldier that Obama traded 5 terrorists for as a sacrificial lamb to make the Prez look bad. Even the military "know it all." Go 4ce my arse!! And what the heck is Cheney talking about? He thinks that he knows better? He who lied and raked in millions from the Iraqui war 2? I think most around the world would rather see him tried for war crimes and just for being Dick Cheney.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Bleah! Sounds as foul as barium--never had it myself, but I heard somewhere that it's like drinking liquified chalk.


Consider yourself lucky! Yes, it is like chalk. It can harden like cement so there are lots of "moving" cocktails to drink afterward.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I hope Knitter in Nebraska is alright. It looks like some horrid storms are sweeping across her state.
Check in with us, KFN!!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hope Knitter in Nebraska is alright. It looks like some horrid storms are sweeping across her state.
> Check in with us, KFN!!


Yes, please do, Nebraska--violent storms are raking the Midwest, and Omaha appears to be ground zero. I hope you've found a safe and quiet spot in which to ride it out.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I am so glad that I not a Republican right now. Some are using the soldier that Obama traded 5 terrorists for as a sacrificial lamb to make the Prez look bad. Even the military "know it all." Go 4ce my arse!! And what the heck is Cheney talking about? He thinks that he knows better? He who lied and raked in millions from the Iraqui war 2? I think most around the world would rather see him tried for war crimes and just for being Dick Cheney.


Cheney looks ridiculous. He and Bushie freed 500 of the terrorists from Guantonamo. I think the only channel that'll give Cheney air time is Fox. Of course Cruz and McCain had to put their two cents worth in, too.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Cheney looks ridiculous. He and Bushie freed 500 of the terrorists from Guantonamo. I think the only channel that'll give Cheney air time is Fox. Of course Cruz and McCain had to put their two cents worth in, too.


I missed McCain's comments.Being that he was once a POW, I hope he was on the side of the American soldier.
Some have the poor guy tried and convicted already.
As for Cruz, I had more fun watching him try to convince Congress that campaign finance reform would "repeal the 1st Ammendment and the Bill of Rights." Texas sure has the nut groves!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Yes, please do, Nebraska--violent storms are raking the Midwest, and Omaha appears to be ground zero. I hope you've found a safe and quiet spot in which to ride it out.


Nebs - Phone home!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I missed McCain's comments.Being that he was once a POW, I hope he was on the side of the American soldier.
> Some have the poor guy tried and convicted already.
> As for Cruz, I had more fun watching him try to convince Congress that campaign finance reform would "repeal the 1st Ammendment and the Bill of Rights." Texas sure has the nut groves!


I pray that Cruz gets the GOP nod for president. Hills would win in a second. What an easy prey he is! But if I should be wrong, I am packing my bags and moving to some South American country. Or Cambodia.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I pray that Cruz gets the GOP nod for president. Hills would win in a second. What an easy prey he is! But if I should be wrong, I am packing my bags and moving to some South American country. Or Cambodia.


I was thinking of Ireland, myself!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hope Knitter in Nebraska is alright. It looks like some horrid storms are sweeping across her state.
> Check in with us, KFN!!


Hi! So far so good. The first round went north of us. This next round is closer. Where one of my sons works, they had softball size hail. Luckily he left work early and all of my loved ones are safe. Thanks for asking!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi! So far so good. The first round went north of us. This next round is closer. Where one of my sons works, they had softball size hail. Luckily he left work early and all of my loved ones are safe. Thanks for asking!


So glad to hear that!   :thumbup: Stay safe!!
I think summer in the midwest is going to be somewhat tumultuous.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi! So far so good. The first round went north of us. This next round is closer. Where one of my sons works, they had softball size hail. Luckily he left work early and all of my loved ones are safe. Thanks for asking!


No problem--glad everything's OK so far.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thanks everybody. Its going to be a long night. Weatherman just said 3" hail headed for us. Oh, I hope not!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks everybody. Its going to be a long night. Weatherman just said 3" hail headed for us. Oh, I hope not!


Oh no!! I suppose you have your basement set up for a night by candle light??


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Oh no!! I suppose you have your basement set up for a night by candle light??


Haha. I'm a prepper. I'm ready for anything.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I was wondering how you looked so good on vacation last year. After I reread your reply the light bulb came on  Good luck with the test.


Thanks and thanks!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I missed McCain's comments.Being that he was once a POW, I hope he was on the side of the American soldier.
> Some have the poor guy tried and convicted already.
> As for Cruz, I had more fun watching him try to convince Congress that campaign finance reform would "repeal the 1st Ammendment and the Bill of Rights." Texas sure has the nut groves!


All the repubs hate what the President did because they hate the President. I do think he should have informed Congress what was going on.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> All the repubs hate what the President did because they hate the President. I do think he should have informed Congress what was going on.


From what I heard on MSNBC, Congress ok'd this in 2011?
BTW,do we still have a Congress??LOL

I guess President Obama as supposed to give Congress 30 days notice before he made the exchange from what I have read so far.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Haha. I'm a prepper. I'm ready for anything.


Well then, woman, get in that bunker!! Hunker down and take care


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> From what I heard on MSNBC, Congress ok'd this in 2011?
> BTW,do we still have a Congress??LOL
> 
> I guess President Obama as supposed to give Congress 30 days notice before he made the exchange from what I have read so far.


Bratty Patty
I heard tonight that President Obama did speak with others re. this. By the way, Bush released 500 from Gitmo without involving Congress. Obama only 5. The Racists find fault with EVERYTHING President Obama does and what he did now should have been done long ago. Incarcerating anyone without legal process is unacceptable and some of those folks have been held for over a decade. I do not like those people but I want them to experience Democracy and not Dictatorship.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> I pray that Cruz gets the GOP nod for president. Hills would win in a second. What an easy prey he is! But if I should be wrong, I am packing my bags and moving to some South American country. Or Cambodia.


Or Canada?????


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> I heard tonight that President Obama did speak with others re. this. By the way, Bush released 500 from Gitmo without involving Congress. Obama only 5. The Racists find fault with EVERYTHING President Obama does and what he did now should have been done long ago. Incarcerating anyone without legal process is unacceptable and some of those folks have been held for over a decade. I do not like those people but I want them to experience Democracy and not Dictatorship.


I hear you, Huck. They are now talking about impeachment. The man has been nitpicked for so long. Enough is enough.
I hate the way they are "swiftboating" Beau Burghdahl.
Whether or not he left his unit, he deserves to be tried in a military trial here in the US. In fact it is mandatory according to Armed Forces rules. Not in a media trial on Fox Noise. Not from a cell in Afghanistan. Obama did the right thing. They don't blink an eye about those 500 released by Bush, but once again they are throwing a hissy fit over a mere 5. Does it remind you of the hoopla over Benghazi?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Or Canada?????


Canada would be closest to me Shirl. I can take the cold!! But I have always wanted to live in a little cottage by the sea in Ireland.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is there room for all of us? Any place I won't fall on the ice? I keep getting more clumsy.



Designer1234 said:


> Or Canada?????


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Canada would be closest to me Shirl. I can take the cold!! But I have always wanted to live in a little cottage by the sea in Ireland.


Let's go to Canada. We can move close to Designer so she can give us knitting encouragement and teach us new things. And they have universal healthcare.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I hear you, Huck. They are now talking about impeachment. The man has been nitpicked for so long. Enough is enough.
> I hate the way they are "swiftboating" Beau Burghdahl.
> Whether or not he left his unit, he deserves to be tried in a military trial here in the US. In fact it is mandatory according to Armed Forces rules. Not in a media trial on Fox Noise. Not from a cell in Afghanistan. Obama did the right thing. They don't blink an eye about those 500 released by Bush, but once again they are throwing a hissy fit over a mere 5. Does it remind you of the hoopla over Benghazi?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I was thinking the same thing Patty. Missed you.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Let's go to Canada. We can move close to Designer so she can give us knitting encouragement and teach us new things. And they have universal healthcare.


I'll give up the cottage in Ireland for you ladies anyday!!
Canada it is!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I was thinking the same thing Patty. Missed you.


Missed you too. As soon as I got back from Texas, I have had Brynn 5 days a week.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Let's go to Canada. We can move close to Designer so she can give us knitting encouragement and teach us new things. And they have universal healthcare.


We could start a knitting group!! Three couples who were friends of ours in Arizona in the 90's have moved up to BC- because of the Politics down there. they are liberal Americans.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> We could start a knitting group!! Three couples who were friends of ours in Arizona in the 90's have moved up to BC- because of the Politics down there. they are liberal Americans.


What fun we would have as a knitting group! Shirley can show us some of her secrets on her beautiful sweaters, and teach us all a thing or two about about her country. Good thing about the universal Healthcare, since I am a bonified klutz!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

VoLi03 said:


> I'm thinking the authority changes based upon whether this is happening during a war and that a POTUS may have additional powers when negotiating the ENDING of a war.
> 
> I'm not sure of this but Ive heard some discussions
> about it and it makes some common sense to me.


I think you may be right. The President , constitutionally does not need the authority of Congress at the closing end of a war to make exchanges for prisoners.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

VoLi03 said:


> No McCain was the political whore he's always been.
> 
> This is what I suspect.....
> 
> We have no idea whether perlhaps this soldier was sufferimg from a mental breakdown when he walked off --- if so I question his leaders and fellow soldiers if they were unable or unwilling to pick up on that and get him the help he needed. Was no one watching out for this guy?


McCain is wishy washy on this. At first he was all for it. But once it was done, he is against it. Typical republican. Fox news has this kid tried and convicted already. Your words give food for thought. To walk away in a war zone is not what a mentally balanced man would do. The risks are too high as he found out.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> McCain is wishy washy on this. At first he was all for it. But once it was done, he is against it. Typical republican. Fox news has this kid tried and convicted already. Your words give food for thought. To walk away in a war zone is not what a mentally balanced man would do. The risks are too high as he found out.


It used to be called battle fatigue. In WW1 soldiers were shot if they were caught. They were deemed to be deserters. Breaker Morrant was one who was shot. Americans did not come into WW1 until 1917 and missed the horror of the first three years in the trenches. Many soldiers did wander off in a dazed and shocked state. Also happened in WW11. I think they now call it PTSD, but a lot of soldiers suffer from it and many are very, very disturbed. Many have taken their own lives. We had one Australian kill himself in his barracks because he had been pushed too far. The stresses in Iraq and Afghanistan are far greater than any other war. The enemy is not wearing a uniform and children make and plant UEDs in the roadways or are given suicide vests to wear to get close to the troops before they set off the devices. I think this poor soul had reached the end of his tether. He was just a foot soldier. He is now having trouble understanding English. He needs professional help. My own father suffered from War Neurosis, as they called it during WW11 . He spent the rest of his life in and out of Hollywood Repatriation Hospital, he was even locked in a padded cell. He became an alcoholic and drug addict, not heroin but prescription drugs prescribed by the doctors. He could not hold a job after he came back from the middle east. He was sent there on 4th April 1940, 6 months after the war started, he was discharged medically unfit the end of 1944. He would sit on the end of his bed for hours, staring into space and swinging his legs. I remember visiting him in hospital when I was a small child and seeing other men doing the same thing. He went overseas 8 months before I was born and came home on medical leave when I was two and a half, just over three years later. He was then sent back to active service until he was finally discharged medically unfit. He was eventually granted a Totally and Permanently Incapacitated Pension because he could not work.


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## vodkaLisa (Jun 4, 2014)

Bazinga


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

I watched a piece on the news a couple of nights about a drug whose name I can't remember being used on women of child-bearing age that has proven to protect the ovaries from chemo and resulted more women being able to get pregnant after treatment for breast cancer.


alcameron said:


> http://www.breastcancer.org/treatment/chemotherapy/medicines
> I'm also thankful for the advances in cancer treatment, but the fact remains, the "cut, burn, poison" treatment is still widely used.
> The link is a list of chemo drugs currently used to treat breast cancer, and further down the page is a list of combo cocktails commonly used. My treatment of over 20 years ago is still there along with most I've heard of still being used. I'm always amazed that the treatment really hasn't changed that much.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Let's go to Canada. We can move close to Designer so she can give us knitting encouragement and teach us new things. And they have universal healthcare.


Then Canada it is! We are all moving to Canada if Ted Crud I mean Cruz makes it into the White House. I was watching Rachel Maddow last nite but I had to turn her off because she was showing Fox idiots spouting about this latest exchange. I could not stand to watch.

So where in Canada? I have a Canada Goose coat so I am ready. Must be the English speaking part, for those of us who pretend to remember just a few words in French.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Then Canada it is! We are all moving to Canada if Ted Crud I mean Cruz makes it into the White House. I was watching Rachel Maddow last nite but I had to turn her off because she was showing Fox idiots spouting about this latest exchange. I could not stand to watch.
> 
> So where in Canada? I have a Canada Goose coat so I am ready. Must be the English speaking part, for those of us who pretend to remember just a few words in French.


SQM
only mentally challenged can bear to watch Fox. BTW Fox is losing viewers in large numbers and the reason it that their TRUE followers are few, many others watched just to hear their nutty explanations for everything and we dropped out. Their biggest losers are O'Reilly, Hannity and Kelly. What took so long?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

VodkaLisa
Wonder how many of the over 500 Bush released are giving us trouble now. No doubt Gitmo has caused lots of harm.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

"Welcome" to another new user who has her mind made up on President Obama. Bazinga.



vodkaLisa said:


> Bazinga


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> All the repubs hate what the President did because they hate the President. I do think he should have informed Congress what was going on.


What they hate is that he made a stupid deal. Trading 5 top level terrorists for one low level soldier is ridiculous. The WH should have picked the terrorist to trade for the soldier, not let the Taliban dictate who would be traded. Kids make better deals when trading baseball cards.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Haha. I'm a prepper. I'm ready for anything.


Glad to hear that your and your family survived the nasty storms.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What they hate is that he made a stupid deal. Trading 5 top level terrorists for one low level soldier is ridiculous. The WH should have picked the terrorist to trade for the soldier, not let the Taliban dictate who would be traded. Kids make better deals when trading baseball cards.


I don't think it is as bad as the media and some republicans make it out to be. These 5 are _suspected_ affilliates of the Taliban. When Bush released 500 from Gitmo, 30% of those prisoners went back to battle against us. Obama has released 100 so far and only 5% have gone back to fight against us.
Are you saying that this soldier's life isn't worth anything because he is "low level"? America has always fought to bring our POW's back home whether they be 5 star generals or just the enlisted man. I wonder what McCain would think if we kept 5 prisoners instead of bringing him home.

He did leave his unit, but he will be investigated and possibly tried by a military court, not the media and certainly not by anyone on Capitol Hill. They have already judged him and are ready to hang him.
I think this 1 American life is much more precious than a baseball card trade.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up about cable news ratings. Seems the rest of the story from the New York Times says all networks dropped.
By BILL CARTERMAY 28, 2014

May is typically a slow month for television news channels  not much is happening and there is competition from season-ending series elsewhere.

But all the news channels have seen particularly troubling declines in viewership this month of May: CNN had the least-watched 9 p.m. hour in the channels history and finished fourth, behind Fox News, MSNBC, and even its sister channel HLN, in attracting the viewers that news advertisers pay for. MSNBC had its lowest performance in prime time since July 2006.

As for Fox News, the dominant leader in cable news ratings, had its worst overall month since before the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and its prime-time lineup of hosts all scored their worst numbers in the years since then.

The category in each of those cases was viewers between the ages of 25 and 54, which is the group advertisers use to pay for commercials in news programs. Among overall viewers, Fox News did not have nearly as large a falloff, which reflects that channels aging audience.

CNNs problem remains, most significantly, its dependence on breaking news to pull in viewers. May was the month when interest in the missing Malaysian airliner dissipated. CNN, which had ridden that story to big gains in prime time and its morning show, saw sharp declinesof between 35 percent and 40 percent, especially at 9 p.m. when its total audience of 357,000 was the worst the network had ever recorded.

CNNs morning program, which had edged ahead of Morning Joe on MSNBC, fell well back again. It had only 80,000 viewers in the 25-54 group, behind 99,000 for Joe and 220,000 for Fox and Friends (though that too, was the worst performance on Fox in those morning hours in 13 years.)

Both CNN and MSNBC would still gladly welcome the numbers Fox News racks up, of course, but compared to its own history Fox continues to experience steady losses among viewers under 55 years old. The total day average for the channel in that 25-54 category was 177,000 viewers.

That remains well above the competition: MSNBC averaged 103,000; CNN averaged just 99,000. Still, only once since August 2001 has Fox News ever fallen below 200,000: last August when it hit 191,000.

Similarly, in prime time, Foxs average in that 25-54 group, 264,000, was the first time in those 13 years that it ever dropped below 300,000 viewers.

Bill OReilly, Foxs biggest star, also had his lowest month since 2001 among that audience, with an average of 313,000 viewers. That did not reflect his overall popularity, or his huge total audience of 2.1 million. But much of that audience is over 55 years old.

The median age for Mr. OReillys audience reached a new high, 72.1. And less than 15 percent of his audience fell within the 25-54 group. (He still dwarfs his news competition in terms of numbers: CNN averaged 145,000 viewers in that hour among the 25-54 year old audience, and MSNBC just 127,000.)

Megyn Kelly, now the 9 oclock host for Fox News, also had a big overall audience of 1.8 million; but her total of 260,000 in the advertiser-preferred group was also Foxs lowest in 13 years. (Her audiences median age also edged up above 70 at 71.7.) The 230,000-person audience for Sean Hannity at 10 p.m. was also the lowest over that span for Fox News.

The audience for news is generally among the oldest in television. Fox News tends to skew older than its rivals. The median age for MSNBC in May was 62.5. For CNN it was 62.8. For Fox News it was 68.8.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't think it is as bad as the media and some republicans make it out to be. These 5 are _suspected_ affilliates of the Taliban. When Bush released 500 from Gitmo, 30% of those prisoners went back to battle against us. Obama has released 100 so far and only 5% have gone back to fight against us.
> Are you saying that this soldier's life isn't worth anything because he is "low level"? America has always fought to bring our POW's back home whether they be 5 star generals or just the enlisted man. I wonder what McCain would think if we kept 5 prisoners instead of bringing him home.
> 
> He did leave his unit, but he will be investigated and possibly tried by a military court, not the media and certainly not by anyone on Capitol Hill. They have already judged him and are ready to hang him.
> I think this 1 American life is much more precious than a baseball card trade.


The 5 terrorists are not necessarily members of the Taliban . The MSM and some military said they are classified as high level terrorists. I wasn't saying the soldiers life wasn't worth anything and you know it. 5 terrorists that are still useful to the terrorist agenda is way too much to trade for one soldier that has served his purpose to the terrorists that held him - was a bad deal on our part. A one on one trade was the logical way to go.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Sometimes logic doesn't win out. Bringing one of our own home is never a bad deal. Do you honestly think that these 5 will be trusted by their own again?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Trading captured soldiers is as old as war itself. I don't understand all the hoopla. Stale news.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Trading captured soldiers is as old as war itself. I don't understand all the hoopla. Stale news.


The hoopla is about the Republican mid terms, SQ. The worse they can make this current administration look, they think they have a better chance in their elections.
Benghazi fizzled out all together,so no they have created another "controversy" to take it's place. They are blowing things out of proportion as usual.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The hoopla is about the Republican mid terms, SQ. The worse they can make this current administration look, they think they have a better chance in their elections.
> Benghazi fizzled out all together,so no they have created another "controversy" to take it's place. They are blowing things out of proportion as usual.


You follow the news better than I do. How did the tea party do last night?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> You follow the news better than I do. How did the tea party do last night?


LOL I didn't watch last night. I got wrapped upin a good book instead.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

The Tea Party lost in Kentucky, North Carolina, and Georgia so far. The Mississippi race was too close to call
last night with McDaniel- TP with 49.5% and Cochran -GOP with 48.9% and a third candidate with 1.?%


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The 5 terrorists are not necessarily members of the Taliban . The MSM and some military said they are classified as high level terrorists. I wasn't saying the soldiers life wasn't worth anything and you know it. 5 terrorists that are still useful to the terrorist agenda is way too much to trade for one soldier that has served his purpose to the terrorists that held him - was a bad deal on our part. A one on one trade was the logical way to go.


Those five militants have been released into the custody of Qatar and will be confined there for one year.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Those five militants have been released into the custody of Qatar and will be confined there for one year.


That's good to know, sumpleby!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We have to release those people eventually. My opinion is to release them all and keep a close eye on all of them.



soloweygirl said:


> What they hate is that he made a stupid deal. Trading 5 top level terrorists for one low level soldier is ridiculous. The WH should have picked the terrorist to trade for the soldier, not let the Taliban dictate who would be traded. Kids make better deals when trading baseball cards.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I thought the 'baseball trade' comment was uncalled for at best. This is the real world and not some childish game. IMO



BrattyPatty said:


> I don't think it is as bad as the media and some republicans make it out to be. These 5 are _suspected_ affilliates of the Taliban. When Bush released 500 from Gitmo, 30% of those prisoners went back to battle against us. Obama has released 100 so far and only 5% have gone back to fight against us.
> Are you saying that this soldier's life isn't worth anything because he is "low level"? America has always fought to bring our POW's back home whether they be 5 star generals or just the enlisted man. I wonder what McCain would think if we kept 5 prisoners instead of bringing him home.
> 
> He did leave his unit, but he will be investigated and possibly tried by a military court, not the media and certainly not by anyone on Capitol Hill. They have already judged him and are ready to hang him.
> I think this 1 American life is much more precious than a baseball card trade.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

There are many places to get news now.



sjrNC said:


> Thanks for the heads up about cable news ratings. Seems the rest of the story from the New York Times says all networks dropped.
> By BILL CARTERMAY 28, 2014
> 
> May is typically a slow month for television news channels  not much is happening and there is competition from season-ending series elsewhere.
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The hoopla is about the Republican mid terms, SQ. The worse they can make this current administration look, they think they have a better chance in their elections.
> Benghazi fizzled out all together,so no they have created another "controversy" to take it's place. They are blowing things out of proportion as usual.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Maybe Ted Crud will straighten it out for them. :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: Maybe Ted Crud will straighten it out for them. :XD: :XD: :XD:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Want to make a side bet whether they survive one year? They'll want to question them thoroughly.



BrattyPatty said:


> That's good to know, sumpleby!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

damemary said:


> Want to make a side bet whether they survive one year? They'll want to question them thoroughly.


My thoughts exactly, dame. For everything there is a reason. :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> What they hate is that he made a stupid deal. Trading 5 top level terrorists for one low level soldier is ridiculous. The WH should have picked the terrorist to trade for the soldier, not let the Taliban dictate who would be traded. Kids make better deals when trading baseball cards.


soloweygirl
tells me how you view our Soldiers "low level". I value ANY soldier who puts her/his life on the line for our safety and that of the rest of the World.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> What they hate is that he made a stupid deal. Trading 5 top level terrorists for one low level soldier is ridiculous. The WH should have picked the terrorist to trade for the soldier, not let the Taliban dictate who would be traded. Kids make better deals when trading baseball cards.


You must have been apoplectic when the Cheney Bush duo released no less than 500 terrorists, right?
Also, the Taliban is not the same as AlQaeda.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

We don't leave soldiers on the battlefield under any circumstance .

Army Credo


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> We don't leave soldiers on the battlefield under any circumstance .
> 
> Army Credo


They must be wearing their aluminum hats again to pick up the air and brainwaves of Feaux News.
I just read a long and interesting article about Bowe Bergdahl. It's rather disturbing. Here is the link. Pour a cup of coffee or tea and put your feet up.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?page=7

I think he was a disturbed individual before he joined the Army, but no way a traitor.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> The Tea Party lost in Kentucky, North Carolina, and Georgia so far. The Mississippi race was too close to call
> last night with McDaniel- TP with 49.5% and Cochran -GOP with 48.9% and a third candidate with 1.?%


Mostly excellent news . Keep on losing TP.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You must have been apoplectic when the Cheney Bush duo released no less than 500 terrorists, right?
> Also, the Taliban is not the same as AlQaeda.


Wait a minute. Aren't Cheney and Bush the same person? Isn't that the style here?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Wait a minute. Aren't Cheney and Bush the same person? Isn't that the style here?


No, Cheney is crazy like a fox whereas Bush is as dumb as a box of rocks.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Me too. The front line are the ones who count the most to me.



Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> tells me how you view our Soldiers "low level". I value ANY soldier who puts her/his life on the line for our safety and that of the rest of the World.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You must have been apoplectic when the Cheney Bush duo released no less than 500 terrorists, right?
> Also, the Taliban is not the same as AlQaeda.


 :roll: :thumbup: :roll: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> We don't leave soldiers on the battlefield under any circumstance .
> 
> Army Credo


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Patty. The article represents the reality of the situation.



BrattyPatty said:


> They must be wearing their aluminum hats again to pick up the air and brainwaves of Feaux News.
> I just read a long and interesting article about Bowe Bergdahl. It's rather disturbing. Here is the link. Pour a cup of coffee or tea and put your feet up.
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?page=7
> 
> I think he was a disturbed individual before he joined the Army, but no way a traitor.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, Cheney is crazy like a fox whereas Bush is as dumb as a box of rocks.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> Those five militants have been released into the custody of Qatar and will be confined there for one year.


sumpleby
for anyone to think that President Obama would make stupid decisions, has not been observant at all.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, Cheney is crazy like a fox whereas Bush is as dumb as a box of rocks.


Nratty Patty
Cheney wants to restore himself - sure, keep on trying Dick - that will never happen. And Ollie North is showing up again? Dementia as well? These two should be facing criminal charges.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Wait a minute. Aren't Cheney and Bush the same person? Isn't that the style here?


SQM
well, that was the style during the Bush administration. Bush spoke and followed Cheney's script.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Nratty Patty
> Cheney wants to restore himself - sure, keep on trying Dick - that will never happen. And Ollie North is showing up again? Dementia as well? These two should be facing criminal charges.


It's turning into a far right 3 ring circus again. They are going after the soldier's father because he has a beard, so therefore must be an islamic terrorist. As John Stewart said,
"Put a bandana around his forehead and he could be any one of the Duck Dynasty cast."
It is sad to see what we as a country are coming to.
What ever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?
If they really believe that this soldier is that bad, then he must be investigated and if necessary tried by a jury of his peers. We had to bring him home in order to do even this.
Not to mention the deterioration of his health. 30 days notice to Congress may have been too late for Berghdahl. God forbid he should die over there. The right would be screaming that we abandoned one of our own. "That Obama should have saved him!!!" 
I have never seen a group of such stupid people in my life.
Huck, I have learned that you can't fix stupid and it scares the hell out of me that the people who are posting their BS
and beating down an already beaten down American soldier are legal voters. Going after his family is lower than whale poo.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> No, Cheney is crazy like a fox whereas Bush is as dumb as a box of rocks.


My first post-procedure laugh


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> My first post-procedure laugh


Hope everything went okay, al.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
> Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


OOps .You are right! I have huge purple double irises in my garden. Guess I'll find something else.I wouldn't want to be taken for you know who!!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hope everything went okay, al.


I'm fine, and your Brynne is a cutie!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
> Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


I have to agree, al. These are some of the most wonderful women around including yourself! Iam so proud to call you all friends.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

The Mississippi guy McDaniel is unreal. Hope he wins, that would make for a great campaign against hm.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> The Mississippi guy McDaniel is unreal. Hope he wins, that would make for a great campaign against hm.


Yes it would, Huck! He is definitely off of the "wierdo" scale!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Any American soldier left behind in Afghanistan is worthy of being saved and treated back to health, whether he has physical or emotional illness, and whatever the circumstances that led to his separation from his unit. We owe him that. If he has disobeyed laws he will be tried and judged, which is the right of every American. This incident should NOT be made into a political hammer for bashing the administration. Those on the right are still searching for the perfect impeachment issue, and if they can't find one, they'll embellish the truth to make one up.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is a tried and true recipe. It's an oldie but definitely a goodie!

Here is a chicken recipe that also includes the use of
popcorn as a stuffing - imagine that! When I found
this recipe, I thought it was perfect for people like
me, who just are not sure how to tell when poultry
is thoroughly cooked, but not dried out. Give this a
try.

BAKED STUFFED CHICKEN
6-7 lb. baking chicken
1 cup melted butter
1 cup stuffing (Pepperidge Farm is good.)
1 cup uncooked popcorn
(ORVILLE REDENBACHERS LOW FAT) Salt/pepper to taste
______________________________
Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Brush chicken well with
melted butter, salt, and pepper. Fill cavity with
stuffing and popcorn. Place in baking pan with the
neck end toward the back of the oven. Listen for the
popping sounds.

When the chicken's ass blows the oven door open and
the chicken flies across the room, it is done.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
> Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


Boy you get maudlin when you have your colon videoed.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> The Mississippi guy McDaniel is unreal. Hope he wins, that would make for a great campaign against hm.


Yes indeed. We all want the losers to become winners.

Brat - don't think that avatar fits my image of you. How about a girl with freckles and red braids sticking her tongue out. A real brat.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes indeed. We all want the losers to become winners.
> 
> Brat - don't think that avatar fits my image of you. How about a girl with freckles and red braids sticking her tongue out. A real brat.


SQ, the yellow rose symbolizes friendship. Your avatar doesn't fit my image of you either. Gilbert Godfrey comes to mind....


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
> Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


alcameron
thank you for the compliment. Having the friends I gathered on KP is an elevating experience and diminishes the craziness being hurled in our direction, which I actually enjoy since it points out that I made good choices by selecting the brightest as my Peers. Hugs to you.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We are all very fortunate to have such loyal, talented friends....including Patty and Al of course. Formidable.



alcameron said:


> Patty, your new avatar is very beautiful, but I ALMOST confused you with someone else. Dame, you are gorgeous, and so smart. SQM, you are your usual innocent and playful self. Designer, your avatar is always so beautiful and artistic! My friends are all so lovely and intelligent, I feel blessed to have you as friends. And Huck! You are a master of creativity!
> Is it the Versed and Fentanyl talking? Please forgive me if I left anyone out.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

damemary said:


> We are all very fortunate to have such loyal, talented friends....including Patty and Al of course. Formidable.


And we miss our erudite gem, Poor Purl!
And await Cheeky's return when we can all do our happy dance!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> VodkaLisa
> Wonder how many of the over 500 Bush released are giving us trouble now. No doubt Gitmo has caused lots of harm.


"Gitmo" is another example of how far we can go in committing shameful acts. I can think of more words to add to "shameful" but it's a good place to start. I say repatriate all the prisoners at Guantanemo Bay. A few more terrorosts running around isn't going to make any difference in the quantity and qaulity of terrorism in our world. Didn't our President say something about closing it down in his first Presidential campaign?

Yeah, I voted for Obama twice. In 2008, I felt I got to vote because I really suppported Obama. It was the first time I ever voted for anyone who wasn't the lesser of two evils. In 2012, it was back to business as usual. I voted for the canditade who represented the lesser of two evils. It has been reported that the outgoing Bush administration told Obama about the state of the VA hospitals, but it appears President Obama failed to address the issue. This, among other things, has really gotten to me. Yeah, I'd still vote for him again if we didn't have term limit, but here we are and I'll be back to voting the straight Dem ticket because it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. Whoopee.:hunf:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> SQ, the yellow rose symbolizes friendship. Your avatar doesn't fit my image of you either. Gilbert Godfrey comes to mind....


I am sorry to admit that I do not have any idea who Gilbert Godrey is. But from the sounds of things, he must be very intellectual, wonderfully witty, cute as a button and heaven to be with. (Sorry Al. Preposition police arrest this writer.)


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> And we miss our erudite gem, Poor Purl!
> And await Cheeky's return when we can all do our happy dance!


Serious Jewish holiday. Should hear from her tomorrow night.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yeah, I voted for Obama twice. In 2008, I felt I got to vote because I really suppported Obama. It was the first time I ever voted for anyone who wasn't the lesser of two evils. In 2012, it was back to business as usual. I voted for the canditade who represented the lesser of two evils. It has been reported that the outgoing Bush administration told Obama about the state of the VA hospitals, but it appears President Obama failed to address the issue. This, among other things, has really gotten to me. Yeah, I'd still vote for him again if we didn't have term limit, but here we are and I'll be back to voting the straight Dem ticket because it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. Whoopee.:hunf:


For me it is not a case of "the lesser of two evils"--it's about fear. I have been registered Independent since I was 18 and they fixed it so 18 year-olds could vote. Over the years I have voted for both Republicans and Democrats, depending on who was best for an office. But now? Now I wouldn't even vote for a Republican for dog catcher much less any other office. I can't even vote for a Libertarian for the same reason. Because since the tea partiers have gotten such a grip on the right, the results have been frightening. They are so far to the right that there is no reasoning with them, compromise has become a dirty word, and they are set on destroying rights through government while screaming that the government must get out of their lives...


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> For me it is not a case of "the lesser of two evils"--it's about fear. I have been registered Independent since I was 18 and they fixed it so 18 year-olds could vote. Over the years I have voted for both Republicans and Democrats, depending on who was best for an office. But now? Now I wouldn't even vote for a Republican for dog catcher much less any other office. I can't even vote for a Libertarian for the same reason. Because since the tea partiers have gotten such a grip on the right, the results have been frightening. They are so far to the right that there is no reasoning with them, compromise has become a dirty word, and they are set on destroying rights through government while screaming that the government must get out of their lives...


Couldn't say it better myself.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> "Gitmo" is another example of how far we can go in committing shameful acts. I can think of more words to add to "shameful" but it's a good place to start. I say repatriate all the prisoners at Guantanemo Bay. A few more terrorosts running around isn't going to make any difference in the quantity and qaulity of terrorism in our world. Didn't our President say something about closing it down in his first Presidential campaign?
> 
> Yeah, I voted for Obama twice. In 2008, I felt I got to vote because I really suppported Obama. It was the first time I ever voted for anyone who wasn't the lesser of two evils. In 2012, it was back to business as usual. I voted for the canditade who represented the lesser of two evils. It has been reported that the outgoing Bush administration told Obama about the state of the VA hospitals, but it appears President Obama failed to address the issue. This, among other things, has really gotten to me. Yeah, I'd still vote for him again if we didn't have term limit, but here we are and I'll be back to voting the straight Dem ticket because it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. Whoopee.:hunf:


 :thumbup: 
Dear Maid, please forgive me for leaving you out of my blessed friend tribute. My mind was still hazy, and I hadn't seen you around much. And I'm off to bed!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> SQ, the yellow rose symbolizes friendship. Your avatar doesn't fit my image of you either. Gilbert Godfrey comes to mind....


Gilbert Godfrey? Why Gilbert Godfrey?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> And we miss our erudite gem, Poor Purl!
> And await Cheeky's return when we can all do our happy dance!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Serious Jewish holiday. Should hear from her tomorrow night.


Serious to some. Not so serious to others. It's the cream cheese Jewish holiday, so I don't take it seriously.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> For me it is not a case of "the lesser of two evils"--it's about fear. I have been registered Independent since I was 18 and they fixed it so 18 year-olds could vote. Over the years I have voted for both Republicans and Democrats, depending on who was best for an office. But now? Now I wouldn't even vote for a Republican for dog catcher much less any other office. I can't even vote for a Libertarian for the same reason. Because since the tea partiers have gotten such a grip on the right, the results have been frightening. They are so far to the right that there is no reasoning with them, compromise has become a dirty word, and they are set on destroying rights through government while screaming that the government must get out of their lives...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> "Gitmo" is another example of how far we can go in committing shameful acts. I can think of more words to add to "shameful" but it's a good place to start. I say repatriate all the prisoners at Guantanemo Bay. A few more terrorosts running around isn't going to make any difference in the quantity and qaulity of terrorism in our world. Didn't our President say something about closing it down in his first Presidential campaign?
> 
> Yeah, I voted for Obama twice. In 2008, I felt I got to vote because I really suppported Obama. It was the first time I ever voted for anyone who wasn't the lesser of two evils. In 2012, it was back to business as usual. I voted for the canditade who represented the lesser of two evils. It has been reported that the outgoing Bush administration told Obama about the state of the VA hospitals, but it appears President Obama failed to address the issue. This, among other things, has really gotten to me. Yeah, I'd still vote for him again if we didn't have term limit, but here we are and I'll be back to voting the straight Dem ticket because it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. Whoopee.:hunf:


I didn't vote for him in 2012, though I did vote for some locals. But I could afford to do that, since there was no chance Romney would take New York.

But I think Sumpleby got it right: it's no longer the lesser of two evils, it's the sane vs. the insane.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I've been doing some reading about this Bowe Bergdahl thing. I think there's more to this than they're letting on. The whole thing is screwy. Before the guy went missing, he talked about walking away. He told his fellow soldiers that he was ashamed to be an American. He told his parents the same thing in an e mail. Right before he went missing, he boxed up all of his stuff including uniforms and shipped them home to his folks. And he walked away from the base. Some say he was crazy. Some say he was drunk. But walking away seems to have been premeditated. The group that took him was not the Taliban. It was A group called the Haqqani. The Haqqani are loosely tied to Al Quaida and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence Agency. The Haqqani are a criminal enterprise feeding off the chaos in Afghanistan and Pakistan. American troops were sent out to look for Bergdahl and six men died trying to find him. He was taken immediately to Pakistan and our government knew where he was but did not try to rescue him. They did not try to deal with the Pakistanis to rescue him. Under usual circumstances, the Haqqani would demand a large cash ransom. Here's where it gets interesting. The Haqqani's only care about the Haqqanis. Why would they make a trade for four top level Taliban and leave their own top level man in Guantanamo? The fifth prisoner had family in the Haqqani network but the Americans are holding Haji Mali Kahn, a major Haqqani commander. He is known as the brain of the group and a revered elder of the clan. So why were these top level Taliban freed instead? I'm thinking that perhaps Bergdahl was a spy? Or perhaps those who manipulate everything wanted these Taliban freed for some other reason? I don't know. But the whole thing stinks! America had never, ever freed prisoners for hostages! Why now? This is sending a message to every terrorist group large or small, to kidnap Americans. We will deal! This has set a very dangerous precedent and none of us will be safe, particularly if we travel overseas. I don't know why any of this was done the way it was done but there is definitely more to the story.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> :thumbup:
> Dear Maid, please forgive me for leaving you out of my blessed friend tribute. My mind was still hazy, and I hadn't seen you around much. And I'm off to bed!


No problem, al. Thanks for including me. :-D


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> "Gitmo" is another example of how far we can go in committing shameful acts. I can think of more words to add to "shameful" but it's a good place to start. I say repatriate all the prisoners at Guantanemo Bay. A few more terrorosts running around isn't going to make any difference in the quantity and qaulity of terrorism in our world. Didn't our President say something about closing it down in his first Presidential campaign?
> 
> Yeah, I voted for Obama twice. In 2008, I felt I got to vote because I really suppported Obama. It was the first time I ever voted for anyone who wasn't the lesser of two evils. In 2012, it was back to business as usual. I voted for the canditade who represented the lesser of two evils. It has been reported that the outgoing Bush administration told Obama about the state of the VA hospitals, but it appears President Obama failed to address the issue. This, among other things, has really gotten to me. Yeah, I'd still vote for him again if we didn't have term limit, but here we are and I'll be back to voting the straight Dem ticket because it will be voting for the lesser of two evils. Whoopee.:hunf:


MaidInBedlam
like anyting else, the Republicans went against closing Gitmo. We need a Democrat Congress and Senate to get anything done for WE THE PEOPLE. I am quite sure that those held at Gitmo have learned that life can be without constant terror and most likely continue to live that way. I do not fear those people any longer, it is those with guns ready to aim around us that cause me penty of worry each and every day. Have stricken one State from my travels, Texas, will never put foot in that State again. I feel sorry for those who are sane and have to live there.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I just read an article that suggested that the prisoner exchange was a test run of Obama's intention to shut down Guantanamo Bay. I think that the whole idea of opening Guantanamo Bay was a disaster. Holding people prisoner without a trial or determination of guilt is disgusting and unforgivable. But what do we do now? If we just shut it down, what will be the consequences? Certainly some of these detainees are hardened terrorists with an axe to grind. Is there any good way to shut this down where innocent people won't pay the price? I wouldn't mind if those responsible had to pay the price but it won't be that way. Innocent American citizens will suffer and die. Any ideas on how or why we should shut it down?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've been doing some reading about this Bowe Bergdahl thing. I think there's more to this than they're letting on. The whole thing is screwy. Before the guy went missing, he talked about walking away. He told his fellow soldiers that he was ashamed to be an American. He told his parents the same thing in an e mail. Right before he went missing, he boxed up all of his stuff including uniforms and shipped them home to his folks. And he walked away from the base. Some say he was crazy. Some say he was drunk. But walking away seems to have been premeditated. The group that took him was not the Taliban. It was A group called the Haqqani. The Haqqani are loosely tied to Al Quaida and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence Agency. The Haqqani are a criminal enterprise feeding off the chaos in Afghanistan and Pakistan. American troops were sent out to look for Bergdahl and six men died trying to find him. He was taken immediately to Pakistan and our government knew where he was but did not try to rescue him. They did not try to deal with the Pakistanis to rescue him. Under usual circumstances, the Haqqani would demand a large cash ransom. Here's where it gets interesting. The Haqqani's only care about the Haqqanis. Why would they make a trade for four top level Taliban and leave their own top level man in Guantanamo? The fifth prisoner had family in the Haqqani network but the Americans are holding Haji Mali Kahn, a major Haqqani commander. He is known as the brain of the group and a revered elder of the clan. So why were these top level Taliban freed instead? I'm thinking that perhaps Bergdahl was a spy? Or perhaps those who manipulate everything wanted these Taliban freed for some other reason? I don't know. But the whole thing stinks! America had never, ever freed prisoners for hostages! Why now? This is sending a message to every terrorist group large or small, to kidnap Americans. We will deal! This has set a very dangerous precedent and none of us will be safe, particularly if we travel overseas. I don't know why any of this was done the way it was done but there is definitely more to the story.


Knitter from Nebraska
prisoner exchanges are as old as Methusala. I do agree that there is a lot to the story not known yet, but what is the hurry? We will get the scoop. Let the military take care of him. I am more concerned about individuals like Snowdon. You again have such a bleak outlook. Having made this exchange, does not mean we will do the same down the road.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Opps. Fumble for me again.  ops My 16 year old diabetic cat, Faro, had to be hospitalized yesterday morning, a bigger deal than being treated at the vet clinic, and my mind is all over the place. He is doing well and will probably will be comimg home this afternoon, thank God. I'm one of those folks who prays a lot, and I've been at that big time, but I'm not like those fundamentalist RWNs around here who we all know too well. Why do I feel I have qualify myself as not being a Christian nutcase? That's really a rhetorical question, folks.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> For me it is not a case of "the lesser of two evils"--it's about fear. I have been registered Independent since I was 18 and they fixed it so 18 year-olds could vote. Over the years I have voted for both Republicans and Democrats, depending on who was best for an office. But now? Now I wouldn't even vote for a Republican for dog catcher much less any other office. I can't even vote for a Libertarian for the same reason. Because since the tea partiers have gotten such a grip on the right, the results have been frightening. They are so far to the right that there is no reasoning with them, compromise has become a dirty word, and they are set on destroying rights through government while screaming that the government must get out of their lives...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> II dread the 2016 election. When I vote, fear and the hope the Dems have acandidate who has a good chance of winning. I believe this country need at least 16 more years of Dem government. I really hipe the Dems become the maority in both Houses of Congress. As far as I can tell, we will be seeing an insane, ultra-consersvative, deeply Christian fundamentalist candidate from the Reps. i already have enough of a bunker mentality, but the election of a republican president will make me really want to either leve the countryaltogether or go live in the middle of now.


Come with us to Canada


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Serious to some. Not so serious to others. It's the cream cheese Jewish holiday, so I don't take it seriously.


Ha Ha. Happy Shah voo oat. Did you stay up all night? I hope you had some yummy ice cream.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Come with us to Canada


Reserve me a place on that new Freedom Train!! :thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Reserve me a place on that new Freedom Train!! :thumbup:


If, God Forbid, Ted Crud gets in office ( I suddenly turn very religous) what city in Canada should we live in? But I just thought of a glitch - I will not financially support the "Royal Family" with my tax money. Hmm? Looks like I will need to find a new shelter. It might be safer in Bedlam then in the States.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> MaidInBedlam
> like anyting else, the Republicans went against closing Gitmo. We need a Democrat Congress and Senate to get anything done for WE THE PEOPLE. I am quite sure that those held at Gitmo have learned that life can be without constant terror and most likely continue to live that way. I do not fear those people any longer, it is those with guns ready to aim around us that cause me penty of worry each and every day. Have stricken one State from my travels, Texas, will never put foot in that State again. I feel sorry for those who are sane and have to live there.


It wasn't that long ago that we had a Democrat congress and senate. They didn't do anything for "we the people" then, so what makes you think they will in the future? They passed a lot of laws that cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars. But these laws benefited only select groups, a base of voters and a base of campaign contributors. The average working American is in fact, worse off now than they were before this government took charge. Politics on both sides of the aisle, is about buying off people and paying off people! So why do you think anything will change?

Don't think for one minute that these terrorists have been rehabilitated. Their lives have not been lives of terror free peace. They've suffered torture and abuse. They're not likely to ever forget. They will be looking for revenge. They live for retribution. When the time for that retribution comes, you might be glad that some American citizens with guns, step up to protect the American people. Law abiding citizens with guns aren't the problem. EVERY single one of these mass shooters has been on psychotropic drugs. Among the known side effects of these drugs is the propensity to commit homicide and suicide. Why is no one looking at this? Why are we blaming guns and law abiding gun owners? Why doesn't anyone point out that people on these drugs also kill with knives and other weapons? Why aren't we trying to eliminate the real cause of these killings? Banning guns is always dangerous! Our founding fathers assured the the right to defend ourselves from a government out of control. Here's a little history on gun control.

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1938, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1975, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, 1 million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

Switzerland issues every house hold a gun. It trains every adult they issue a rifle to. Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime rate of any nation in the world!

A people who cannot defend themselves are defenseless. And we know what happens to them!

Democide is defined as the murder of a person or people, by their government. Democide is the leading cause of death, in the world today. When are the people going to stand up and say no?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> prisoner exchanges are as old as Methusala. I do agree that there is a lot to the story not known yet, but what is the hurry? We will get the scoop. Let the military take care of him. I am more concerned about individuals like Snowdon. You again have such a bleak outlook. Having made this exchange, does not mean we will do the same down the road.


This was not an ordinary prisoner exchange. This was not an exchange between two countries at the end of war. This was a hostage situation by a known terrorist group. We have never made a deal with terrorists before. This sets a precedent for any group, large or small, to kidnap Americans. We have never made deals with terrorists before. I am sure we will come to regret this.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Opps. Fumble for me again.  ops My 16 year old diabetic cat, Faro, had to be hospitalized yesterday morning, a bigger deal than being treated at the vet clinic, and my mind is all over the place. He is doing well and will probably will be comimg home this afternoon, thank God. I'm one of those folks who prays a lot, and I've been at that big time, but I'm not like those fundamentalist RWNs around here who we all know too well. Why do I feel I have qualify myself as not being a Christian nutcase? That's really a rhetorical question, folks.


Prayers going out for you and your cat. You never have to make excuses for being a Christian. Follow your heart and stay true to yourself.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It wasn't that long ago that we had a Democrat congress and senate. They didn't do anything for "we the people" then, so what makes you think they will in the future? They passed a lot of laws that cost the taxpayers trillions of dollars. But these laws benefited only select groups, a base of voters and a base of campaign contributors. The average working American is in fact, worse off now than they were before this government took charge. Politics on both sides of the aisle, is about buying off people and paying off people! So why do you think anything will change?
> 
> Don't think for one minute that these terrorists have been rehabilitated. Their lives have not been lives of terror free peace. They've suffered torture and abuse. They're not likely to ever forget. They will be looking for revenge. They live for retribution. When the time for that retribution comes, you might be glad that some American citizens with guns, step up to protect the American people. Law abiding citizens with guns aren't the problem. EVERY single one of these mass shooters has been on psychotropic drugs. Among the known side effects of these drugs is the propensity to commit homicide and suicide. Why is no one looking at this? Why are we blaming guns and law abiding gun owners? Why doesn't anyone point out that people on these drugs also kill with knives and other weapons? Why aren't we trying to eliminate the real cause of these killings? Banning guns is always dangerous! Our founding fathers assured the the right to defend ourselves from a government out of control. Here's a little history on gun control.
> 
> ...


Thanks for writing this. This has been my contention for decades. Criminals will always get their guns and I trust no government not to turn on its citizens. Nazi Germany has left its scar on me.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Switzerland issues every house hold a gun. It trains every adult they issue a rifle to. Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime rate of any nation in the world!


This analogy is frequently used and the flaws not so often pointed out.The US and Switzerland are too different to make a simple comparison. Switzerland has a much more uniform population than the U.S., much less diversity. Violence is less celebrated via sports and media than in the U.S. Fire-arms training is mandatory. In the U.S., citizen groups and the NRA scream when governments of any level mandate firearms training so there are many American gun owners who have no formal training with firearms. Societal conformity is also more emphasized in Switzerland. You don't see the immense divisions of American society (wealth, education, religion) in the Swiss society. The lower tolerance of violence and less social stratification are known factors in promoting a less violent society.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

KFN, while you were replying to SQM, I have a few things to say about your response to her post. I don't think any government has been working for the American people for a long time. I think they're far more concerned about themselves, their contributors and their favorite lobbyists to bother to represent their constituents.

I don't care about the potential danger any of the terrorists we have in custody now will create if they are released. If they aren't released there will always be plenty more where they came from. Guantanamo is a stain on the American character that must be erased.

While I believe we need some form of gun control at local levels, due to the fact that it's all too easy for any whacko to get as many guns as possible, I see much of the current press for gun control laws as an attack on the 2nd Amendment. I think there are a lot of people who want to see the 2nd Amendment scraped, and I believe if that happens it will be open season on the Bill of Rights. 

To me, the 2nd Amendment has become the weakest link in the chain of the Bill of Rights, and I am deeply opposed to creating a door through it that can be used to damage the rest of the Bill of Rights. Yes, I understand many people believe our basic Constitutional rights exist in name only. I disagree. I also believe it would be a catastrophe of the greatest order to modify or significantly change the Bill of Rights. 

Voter turn-out rates in this country are shameful. Majority rule is supposed to be what we're trying to get by voting but I have voted in elections where less than 10% of eligible voters formed the so-called majority. This is completely unacceptable. Too many of us care more about getting to watch the boob tube instead of taking a little time to go and vote. When we find ourselves stripped of all we value because a majority of 10% of eligible voters made it so it will be the fault of the fools who didn't vote.

I could rant and rave some more,but I think I've made a good start. I'm looking forward to the responses this post.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> If, God Forbid, Ted Crud gets in office ( I suddenly turn very religous) what city in Canada should we live in? But I just thought of a glitch - I will not financially support the "Royal Family" with my tax money. Hmm? Looks like I will need to find a new shelter. It might be safer in Bedlam then in the States.


Don't worry about supporting the Royal Family. Sometimes they put on a good show and that's worth the few pennies you might have to contribute to their support.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Gilbert Godfrey? Why Gilbert Godfrey?


It was a joke Purl


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't worry about supporting the Royal Family. Sometimes they put on a good show and that's worth the few pennies you might have to contribute to their support.


They are worth every penny and they don't cost us that much.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't worry about supporting the Royal Family. Sometimes they put on a good show and that's worth the few pennies you might have to contribute to their support.


Yuck. I find them distasteful and stupid parasites. And I think they get more than a few pennies from the subjects of their Empire.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was a joke Purl


A joke I did not get. Is it still a joke then?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yuck. I find them distasteful and stupid parasites. And I think they get more than a few pennies from the subjects of their Empire.


Each of us are entitled to our opinion- it is a fact of life in the commonwealth. We have a few who are anti Monarchists but we go back a long way - they have no power over us - and are a huge part of our history. If you were to come here - you certainly would be welcome to become involved in the Anti Monarchist Group. :thumbup: Australia has a large group of anti Monarchists but when Prince William and his family were there the crowds to see them were huge. It might come to a time when we turn away from the <Monarchy but I doubt it will be very soon.

She is highly respected here and in other Commonwealth countries - for me, Since WW II. I think it is a fact that each country has their own ways and history -- There are things about the US we don't agree with , and it is quite probable that those who study us find things that they don't agree with. Still good neighbours and we have a pretty good deal up here in my opinion.
---------------
However yesterday a 25 year old man who was anti -police and very pro gun shot and killed 3 Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers and wounded two others, in a small city in New Brunswick.

He obviously has been watching the discussion in the States about the ' right to bear arms' and took to that idea like a duck to water from what we hear. It is sad - We have had more gun deaths this past year I believe than ever in peacetime. He is still eluding the police and the whole town is closed down and people are told to remain in their homes.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> A joke I did not get. Is it still a joke then?


Google him, SQ. He is a comedian


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Each of us are entitled to our opinion- it is a fact of life in the commonwealth. We have a few who are anti Monarchists but we go back a long way - they have no power over us - and are a huge part of our history. If you were to come here - you certainly would be welcome to become involved in the Anti Monarchist Group.


Now that is a group I never imagined I would join. But it sounds perfect for me when I make my move to a safer city. I guess I will choose Toronto. What large American city is it nearest?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Google him, SQ. He is a comedian


Was he that bigoted nut who did the Aflac duck voice? Bad choice if so. I was suggesting a real Bratty Patty for your avatar, no meanness intended. Just something to complete your motif.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

While I'm in the mood, let me post about what is probably a pretty controversial subject.

I was and still am opposed to the lowering of the voting age to 18. The argument that if someone is old enough to die for our country because they enlisted in any of our military services doesn't hold water for me. They were fools to do so in the first place and we already have too many fools in this country. To enlist in the military is automatically a way to get killed, so why are we surprised when it happens? Sure, the families and the friends of a deceased soldier will grieve and they have my deepest sympathies. 

Military services MUST be made up largely of people who are too young to think for themselves. 18 year olds are far more malleable than 21 year olds. Even 21 year olds are pretty lacking in the ability to think independently. I won't insist that the voting age be raised to 25 even though that is what I believe should be the case.

Catch all you cool kitties on the flip side. I gotta go get ready for my sweetie-pie, fuzzy-wuzzy bunny to come home. Yes, while I rarely talk baby talk to babies, I do to my cats. They don't understand a word I'm saying anyway so it's no big deal.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> While I'm in the mood, let me post about what is probably a pretty controversial subject.
> 
> I was and still am opposed to the lowering of the voting age to 18. The argument that if someone is old enough to die for our country because they enlisted in any of our military services doesn't hold water for me. They were fools to do so in the first place and we already have too many fools in this country. To enlist in the military is automatically a way to get killed, so why are we surprised when it happens? Sure, the families and the friends of a deceased soldier will grieve and they have my deepest sympathies.
> 
> ...


I agree with you to a point MIB -- however I just read in a post here today that the number of voters (percentage wise) is extremely small. So changing the age might affect that?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Now that is a group I never imagined I would join. But it sounds perfect for me when I make my move to a safer city. I guess I will choose Toronto. What large American city is it nearest?


Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are our largest cities. You can look up the closed US cities by googling about them.

Toronto would likely be the place you are most interested in as I believe you are from New York.

I know we are just having an "I might if things don't improve"conversation, but I know 3or 4 couples who have moved here because of the gun laws in the States, as well as the strong 
dislike and lack of cooperation between the parties. they are in their 50's and friends of my son.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

It's strange how everybody on the right knows exactly what happened with the Bowe Bergdahl story.
The real info is *classified*. 
I got my story on him from an article in Rolling Stone where a soldier from his platoon was interviewed. The soldier was transferred to a different unit before Bergdahl walked away. Therefore his comments did not apply to the recent gag order.
Eventually we will find out what really happened. The right wing media has this man tried and ready for execution. 
This is nothing but a ploy to rally the RWN's for the upcoming elections. Listening to the senators on the right coming out of a closed door hearing on the matter yesterday made me sick. Are they all programmed to say the same thing? Should they have said anything at all?

As for him hating America, maybe he did. War does crazy things to ones psyche. In the article I read he mentioned an instance where a few US soldiers ran over an Afghani child and laughed about it later.

I read this article because I wanted to find out what this man was like. Why would he leave his platoon?
I have been reading that his father is now an Islam extremist because he grew a beard. For Pete's sake! Is everyone who grows a beard now a terrorist? Hell, Jesus had a beard! They are so desperate to ruin this man. They are going after his parents now. It's sickening. This time should be filled with joy for his parents to have their son returned, not a time where they should go and hide.

When Marsha Blackburn, R-Tennesee and also a member of the intelligence commitee was interviewed about this case, she couldn't give an answer because the info is 
*classified*. She had admitted that no one on the committee has seen the file yet. However she danced the side step back to Benghazi. More RWN programming? I think she is the perfect candidate to replace Michele Bachmann. I think Michele had her programmed to give all answers in Benghazi rhetoric.
I will get down off of my soap box now. I am really disgusted with the RWN's and their judgemental statements about this ordeal.
As for the 5 militants, who's to say that they will live long enough in Qtar to come back at us?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Was he that bigoted nut who did the Aflac duck voice? Bad choice if so. I was suggesting a real Bratty Patty for your avatar, no meanness intended. Just something to complete your motif.


No meanness intended in my part either. It's just the way you write, like calling KFN "nebs" me the "brat". Starting some of your sentences with 'Hey". I find him to be very funny. Sorry if you are insulted. It wasn't meant to be that way. I didn't know he was a bigot. 
Okay let's find another one for you. I will find a comedienne with a NY accent for you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

sumpleby said:


> Those five militants have been released into the custody of Qatar and will be confined there for one year.


Whoppee. Where they can commence planning their retaliation and make further plans to kill Americans. What a wonderful deal.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

YAWN.................


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> We have to release those people eventually. My opinion is to release them all and keep a close eye on all of them.


Can we put you down to keep a close eye on the 5 just released? Didn't think so.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> No meanness intended in my part either. It's just the way you write, like calling KFN "nebs" me the "brat". Starting some of your sentences with 'Hey". I find him to be very funny. Sorry if you are insulted. It wasn't meant to be that way. I didn't know he was a bigot.
> Okay let's find another one for you. I will find a comedienne with a NY accent for you.


Your avatar is sheer perfection. It captures my image of you wonderfully.

The Rights are being mean to me. Pour qui? (sp?)


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> tells me how you view our Soldiers "low level". I value ANY soldier who puts her/his life on the line for our safety and that of the rest of the World.


Then why do you value this guy? He certainly didn't put his life on the line for anyone. He did nothing for our safety, only caused 6 of his peers to lose their lives.

Thinking(?) the way you do it's no wonder your values are all screwed up.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

alcameron said:


> You must have been apoplectic when the Cheney Bush duo released no less than 500 terrorists, right?
> Also, the Taliban is not the same as AlQaeda.


I never said the Taliban was the same as Al Qaeda. I said that not all terrorists are Taliban. Sen. Feinstein and others, both Dems and Repubs, have repeatedly written to the President and SOS Clinton about NOT releasing those 5 terrorists because they were dangerous.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Your avatar is sheer perfection. It captures my image of you wonderfully.
> 
> The Rights are being mean to me. Pour qui? (sp?)


I saw that SQ. You are certainly not the devil. KC is nuts.
You are a person who has her own thoughts and you don't lean either way politically. That scares them. 
All that talk about friendship over there must be for them exclusively. Sorry they ganged upon you like that.

I can't find a NY comedienne that isn't acidic-Joan Rivers or vulgar-Rosie O'Donnell. So how about Phyllis Diller sans the whacky hairdo?
She was hilarious with out the dirty mouth.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Then why do you value this guy? He certainly didn't put his life on the line for anyone. He did nothing for our safety, only caused 6 of his peers to lose their lives.
> 
> Thinking(?) the way you do it's no wonder your values are all screwed up.


You don't know that they were killed trying to find him. The army doesn't know that. They said so.
He is an American. That should be reason enough. Until all the facts are out, why keep beating him up? 
I don't think that one who is a true patriot and thinks like one has her values screwed up.
And here you sit judging what you have no evidence of.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I saw that SQ. You are certainly not the devil. KC is nuts.
> You are a person who has her own thoughts and you don't lean either way politically. That scares them.
> All that talk about friendship over there must be for them exclusively. Sorry they ganged upon you like that.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the support. I don't mind if some vent. I get a lot of secret PMs from that side which mean a lot to me. I don't like comediennes. So don't wrack your brains on that.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said the Taliban was the same as Al Qaeda. I said that not all terrorists are Taliban. Sen. Feinstein and others, both Dems and Repubs, have repeatedly written to the President and SOS Clinton about NOT releasing those 5 terrorists because they were dangerous.


The war is coming to an end. We couldn't keep them indefinitely. They were never charged with anything.
They were being held as suspects. 
Strange that you are more concerned with 5 men than you were about the 500 that Bush released.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks for the support. I don't mind if some vent. I get a lot of secret PMs from that side which mean a lot to me. I don't like comediennes. So don't wrack your brains on that.


But you are a comedienne! You are very funny!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> This analogy is frequently used and the flaws not so often pointed out.The US and Switzerland are too different to make a simple comparison. Switzerland has a much more uniform population than the U.S., much less diversity. Violence is less celebrated via sports and media than in the U.S. Fire-arms training is mandatory. In the U.S., citizen groups and the NRA scream when governments of any level mandate firearms training so there are many American gun owners who have no formal training with firearms. Societal conformity is also more emphasized in Switzerland. You don't see the immense divisions of American society (wealth, education, religion) in the Swiss society. The lower tolerance of violence and less social stratification are known factors in promoting a less violent society.


I wasn't comparing the US and Switzerland. Just pointing out that guns in and of themselves don't cause death. Guns insure a free citizenry. I'd also like to point out that law abiding citizens don't cause death either. Most law abiding gun owners have had training in the proper use of guns. The problem lies with criminals and people who are on psycotropic drugs. We could solve one of those problems by looking for alternative treatments for the mentally I'll. The other problem won't be solved with or without gun control. We live in a country with freedoms. With those freedoms, comes risk. If we give up our freedoms we will end up just like any other tyranny.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's strange how everybody on the right knows exactly what happened with the Bowe Bergdahl story.
> The real info is *classified*.
> I got my story on him from an article in Rolling Stone where a soldier from his platoon was interviewed. The soldier was transferred to a different unit before Bergdahl walked away. Therefore his comments did not apply to the recent gag order.
> Eventually we will find out what really happened. The right wing media has this man tried and ready for execution.
> ...


As you said, *the real story about Bergdahl is classified.* When you think about the suicide rates and PTSD, as just two "problems" for those serving in Afghanistan and Iraq, it's very easy for me to see Bergdahl as mentally ill. I read the Rolling Stone article and find it supports the idea that this guy was and is probably suffering from PTSD. Also, I understood from that article that his father grew a beard to appear more socially acceptable if he had the chance to negotiate his son's release.

I've started to think that negotiating with terrorists isn't the horrible thing it is considered to be. Really, will the 5 sent to Qatar get to leave Qatar? If we continue to keep the supposed terrorists who are at Guantanamo there, will it make any difference in reducing terrorism worldwide? I think NOT. All we are doing is continuing to shame ourselves in the eyes of the rest of the world. Send 'em home and let's get down to fighting terrorism where it is happening. Even if we don't close down "Gitmo", there will plenty of home grown terrorists to take their places.

And then there's the situation in Nigeria where nearly 300 girls as of now are captives of Islamist extremists. They were Christians. Boko Haram had the nerve to say that some of them had willingly converted to Islam and show us a bunch of girls in appropriate dress chanting stuff from the Koran. I've never heard of any such thing as a captive person doing anything willingly. Maybe if we had started negotiating with Boko Haram as soon as those girls were kidnapped, they might already be at home.

Oh, I'm starting to rant and rave. I'd better stop. One last thought, I think it's time we discontinued the destructive policy of not negotiating with terrorists for the sake pf the people they put in harm's way. I can't even try to say what I think of the RWNs.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wasn't comparing the US and Switzerland. Just pointing out that guns in and of themselves don't cause death. Guns insure a free citizenry. I'd also like to point out that law abiding citizens don't cause death either. Most law abiding gun owners have had training in the proper use of guns. The problem lies with criminals and people who are on psycotropic drugs. We could solve one of those problems by looking for alternative treatments for the mentally I'll. The other problem won't be solved with or without gun control. We live in a country with freedoms. With those freedoms, comes risk. If we give up our freedoms we will end up just like any other tyranny.


Guns in and of themselves don't cause death UNLESS THEY'RE IN THE HANDS OF SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T MIND SHOOTING THEM and doesn't care where the bullets go. Not just lunatics. Did you see what "Joe the fake plumber" said to the father of one of the young men killed by the nut at UCSB: "your dead kids dont trump my Constitutional rights." Don't kids have the right to live?

I can't even go on here. When did the 2nd Amendment (as interpreted by the NRA, not the Founding Fathers) become the only amendment that has no limits to it? Freedom of speech is limited - never mind. If you believe what you wrote, then there's no bridge strong enough for us to meet on.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

V0dkaLisa said:


> There's plenty of "free citizenries" all over the world that don't have the kind of "free range" access to guns that we have here.
> 
> And secondly, us having guns would not prevent our government from committing tyrrany against us.
> 
> The stupidity in thinking that you having a few guns is somehow going to prevent a nefarious government from taking away our freedom is so beyond ridiculous, it's downright delusional.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Can we put you down to keep a close eye on the 5 just released? Didn't think so.


We must be really busy watching the 500 released by the Bush/Cheney duo.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just read an article that suggested that the prisoner exchange was a test run of Obama's intention to shut down Guantanamo Bay. I think that the whole idea of opening Guantanamo Bay was a disaster. Holding people prisoner without a trial or determination of guilt is disgusting and unforgivable. But what do we do now? If we just shut it down, what will be the consequences? Certainly some of these detainees are hardened terrorists with an axe to grind. Is there any good way to shut this down where innocent people won't pay the price? I wouldn't mind if those responsible had to pay the price but it won't be that way. Innocent American citizens will suffer and die. Any ideas on how or why we should shut it down?


There are plenty of "hardened terrorists with axes to grind" who never spent a day in Guantanamo, and others who were made that way by having spent time there. Sometimes you have to do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> KFN, while you were replying to SQM, I have a few things to say about your response to her post. I don't think any government has been working for the American people for a long time. I think they're far more concerned about themselves, their contributors and their favorite lobbyists to bother to represent their constituents.
> 
> I don't care about the potential danger any of the terrorists we have in custody now will create if they are released. If they aren't released there will always be plenty more where they came from. Guantanamo is a stain on the American character that must be erased.
> 
> ...


I agree with most of what you say. Gitmo is probably the very worst stain on our country. It is against everything we stand for. But I think that if we just release them, the consequences would be great. Who could blame them for taking vengeance? I don't have any idea of how we could make this right. But I do think that innocent men, women and children will suffer. If only those responsible could face the repercussions of their actions instead of the innocent. But the guilty are protected.

I agree that if the second amendment goes, so too will the entire bill of rights. They are already chiseling away at those rights. They want to lessen the first amendment. They have created no free speech zones. They want to remove protections for journalists who don't work for major news outlets. The fourth amendment is practically gone. The government spies on us without cause or warrant. They tap our phones and keep records of e mails and purchases. They keep track of everywhere we go on the internet and we have cameras watching us everywhere we go. They can even search your car and your person without consent or a warrant. So, the fourth amendment is gone. The fifth amendment is in danger. It says you cannot be deprived of property without due process of law. But officers seize money from people all of the time. They declare it drug money and steal it without any charges being filed. I just read about a man who won money at a casino in Nevada, being stopped for going three miles over the speed limit. They stole his money and he had to pay a lawyer and fight to get it back. The sixth amendment says we have the right to confront witnesses against us. There have been cases where the witnesses have died and judges have let their videotaped statements be entered as testimony. The seventh amendment states that common law shall be used. We quit using common law a long time ago and our courts operate under maritime law. The eighth amendment says that excessive bail shall not be imposed but it often is. It also says that cruel and unusual punishment shall not be inflicted. But many are not being beat to death by the police, often for little or no reason. The tenth amendment states that all powers not granted to the federal government, by the constitution, belong to the states. Well, that's become a joke. And so on and so forth... I think that very soon we will have no rights at all.

I disagree with you when you say we are supposed to have majority rule. We are not a democracy. Our founding fathers formed us a republic as to protect the rights of the minority. Individual rights were very important to them and no law was to be passed that infringed upon the rights of the individual. They take away our rights by saying that the majority wants it. It is unconstitutional. Each state was given equal representation in the senate so as to protect the states with smaller populations.

I agree that many don't take the responsibility of voting. But I understand it. How can we continue to vote for the lesser of two evils? How can we continue to betray ourselves? It makes no difference who you vote for. Nothing changes.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Don't worry about supporting the Royal Family. Sometimes they put on a good show and that's worth the few pennies you might have to contribute to their support.


What difference does it make if you support one royal family or another?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. Happy Shah voo oat. Did you stay up all night? I hope you had some yummy ice cream.


Well, thank you kindly. No, I haven't stayed up all night since I was 11 and realized that they were lying when they said the heavens would open. Not even yummy ice cream. But thank God no cheesecake.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> While I'm in the mood, let me post about what is probably a pretty controversial subject.
> 
> I was and still am opposed to the lowering of the voting age to 18. The argument that if someone is old enough to die for our country because they enlisted in any of our military services doesn't hold water for me. They were fools to do so in the first place and we already have too many fools in this country. To enlist in the military is automatically a way to get killed, so why are we surprised when it happens? Sure, the families and the friends of a deceased soldier will grieve and they have my deepest sympathies.
> 
> ...


I agree with everything you said in this post. In this day and age, eighteen year olds are just kids. They are ill prepared to fight in a war or even understand what the war is about. They are pawns on somebody's chess board. Neither is the average eighteen year old informed enough to vote. Like many, they never hear anything but the talking points. They vote for the candidate whose coolest.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree with you to a point MIB -- however I just read in a post here today that the number of voters (percentage wise) is extremely small. So changing the age might affect that?


How about we change the candidates so that more people could stomach voting. ;-)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It was a joke Purl


So was my message. But now I'm curious - what made you think of Gilbert Godfrey of all people?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> A joke I did not get. Is it still a joke then?


Think of it as a joke falling in the forest with nobody to hear it.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Ask a Swiss citizen why he/she has a gun. The answer is always some variation of required by the government and to defend the nation against a foreign invading army. You will also have some who add they participate in competitive shooting.

Ask an American citizen why they have a gun. The answers vary:
- defend against a neighbor
- defend against illegal immigrants
- defend against the American government
- defend against "them damn ______ (insert offensive racial, political, ethnic, religious slur of choice)
- because it's a Constitutional right
- because it's a Constitutional right and "prying it out of my cold dead hands" comments
- criminal activity & gangs protecting 'turf'
- occasionally a legitimate need to protect against bears, wolves, mountain lions
- hunting for food
- gun related sports, some legal and some using humans as the prey

A Swiss citizen generally has a saner view on how guns should be used than a sizeable portion of the American population. Until Americans get more reasonable in their attitudes about guns, stricter gun control has a place.

And then there is the mental health issue. The Swiss take care of their mentally ill and seriously take steps to keep them away from weapons. In America, we throw them out into the street and allow them unfettered access to weapons. Slight difference in approach to the problem!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> It's strange how everybody on the right knows exactly what happened with the Bowe Bergdahl story.
> The real info is *classified*.
> I got my story on him from an article in Rolling Stone where a soldier from his platoon was interviewed. The soldier was transferred to a different unit before Bergdahl walked away. Therefore his comments did not apply to the recent gag order.
> Eventually we will find out what really happened. The right wing media has this man tried and ready for execution.
> ...


I believe in truth! I'm tired of the lies and obfuscations. I want the truth about Benghazi and I want the truth about terrorist demands being met. There a few other things I'd like the truth about too. But I'm not gonna get it. And neither are you.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Now that is a group I never imagined I would join. But it sounds perfect for me when I make my move to a safer city. I guess I will choose Toronto. What large American city is it nearest?


Detroit, I think. Good luck.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Detroit, I think. Good luck.


Detroit is across the river from Windsor, Canada


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> You don't know that they were killed trying to find him. The army doesn't know that. They said so.
> He is an American. That should be reason enough. Until all the facts are out, why keep beating him up?
> I don't think that one who is a true patriot and thinks like one has her values screwed up.
> And here you sit judging what you have no evidence of.


Don't you get it, Patty? Every time someone asks her about the 500 Bush released, she tries to distract you by coming back to this guy. She still hasn't said a thing about Bush's 500.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Ask a Swiss citizen why he/she has a gun. The answer is always some variation of required by the government and to defend the nation against a foreign invading army. You will also have some who add they participate in competitive shooting.
> 
> Ask an American citizen why they have a gun. The answers vary:
> - defend against a neighbor
> ...


I couldn't help but notice that with the exception of hunting, all of the things you listed came under "defense". A good enough reason for me. The problem with the mentally ill who are shooting up people, aren't the ones on the street. Its the ones whose doctors have prescribed psychotropic drugs which are KNOWN to cause people to commit homicide and suicide. EVERY mass shooter has been on these drugs. Why aren't we looking at that?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Ask a Swiss citizen why he/she has a gun. The answer is always some variation of required by the government and to defend the nation against a foreign invading army. You will also have some who add they participate in competitive shooting.
> 
> Ask an American citizen why they have a gun. The answers vary:
> - defend against a neighbor
> ...


Thank you, Mountain Stitches.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Detroit is across the river from Windsor, Canada


Windsor is near Detroit, but the question was which major US cities are near Toronto. Buffalo, and then Detroit.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So was my message. But now I'm curious - what made you think of Gilbert Godfrey of all people?


I took my children ( a loooongggg time ago to see the Disney animation film titled "Aladdin". Gilbert Godfrey was the voice of a bird. He was hilarious. The way SQM sometimes writes reminded me of that. Looks were not considered, nor was bigotry.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I believe in truth! I'm tired of the lies and obfuscations. I want the truth about Benghazi and I want the truth about terrorist demands being met. There a few other things I'd like the truth about too. But I'm not gonna get it. And neither are you.


Somethings are covert for a reason. Just think that if they did give congress 30 days notice on this move. It would take 1 congressmen to blab to the press what the plan was to be. The soldier could have been executed in the time waiting to move on his release. He could have died from poor health. (None of the 5 at Gitmo looked sick or underfed.) What makes you believe that the 5 were released on demand? We could have offered them up for the exchange. It's all still classified information. As far as I am concerned, Benghazi is finished. I am sad that we lost 4 Americans, but nothing can bring them back. The only ones who are guilty in this are the terrorists that killed them.
They were killed by terrorists and we are looking for them.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Serious to some. Not so serious to others. It's the cream cheese Jewish holiday, so I don't take it seriously.


Isn't that when you get to stay up all night eating ice cream? We have a friend who invited people over for blintzes and ice cream for Shavuot this year. We turned the invitation down, because my husband is already staying up all night with his work (four jobs) plus visiting our son in the hospital and making many of the phone calls related to our son's needs, plus taking care of me plus being a semi-responsible dog owner, and we bought a pint of Ben & Jerry's. Good news flash: it looks as though our son is coming home from the hospital on Wednesday. Three cheers!


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!

I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.

Now I learned this morning that Tim is back in the study--apparently his oncologist was able to persuade the researcher interviewing candidates to skip over the troublesome questions. Brother is scheduled for an endoscopy tomorrow to retrieve a sample of his primary tumor, the researchers will spend the weekend analyzing it, extracting T-cells, altering their DNA, cloning them, etc etc, and Tim will get his first infusion of jumped-up T-cells on MONDAY!

My feelings are so mixed--this is all happening so fast. Brother is of course thrilled as he didn't think he could continue conventional chemo any longer, and this procedure holds the possibility of long-term control, remission, and perhaps even a cure. All that would be wonderful, but so far this kind of therapy only works on some 20% of test subjects. What will happen to him if it doesn't do what it's supposed to do? What about all those meds he's no longer taking? As he's no longer taking them, will the cancer then eat him alive? And I'm troubled too at the thought that Brother got into the study through some major string-pulling and not a little deception. That the thought has even crossed my mind makes me feel horribly guilty--I desperately want my brother to get well (or at least better), but I can't help thinking about whoever isn't going to get his or her chance at this treatment because Brother got the one remaining slot.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> But you are a comedienne! You are very funny!


Crazy Knit and Yarnie don't think so. One called me the devil today. Now that is the first. My mom had a whole closet full of names to call me but never that.

I don't think Jewish people put a lot of stock in the devil. I know we created the idea of Sah-tahn (accent on second syllable) but our Own Purl will probably have more to say about that than I can. Glad you think I am funny. I know myself better and see myself as a bit of a bore.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

Susan
Look at it this way, your brother was meant to get into the trial. 
Praying that it puts his cancer in remission.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

sjrNC said:


> Susan
> Look at it this way, your brother was meant to get into the trial.
> Praying that it puts his cancer in remission.


Thanks, sjrNC. We've been praying too--Sister that Tim would make it into the study, I that Tim would simply have the opportunity to decide whether to go ahead or not. It's funny, but I couldn't bring myself to pray that he'd have the therapy as the stakes are so high. It's a huge gamble that I wasn't sure he should take--but now that he has, I'm praying that he's one of the 20% that has a good outcome.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.

I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!
> 
> I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.
> 
> ...


I am thinking of you and sending healing vibes your way. It is a very stressful time for you and your family but you have friends here who are thinking of you and care for you.


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## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Thanks, sjrNC. We've been praying too--Sister that Tim would make it into the study, I that Tim would simply have the opportunity to decide whether to go ahead or not. It's funny, but I couldn't bring myself to pray that he'd have the therapy as the stakes are so high. It's a huge gamble that I wasn't sure he should take--but now that he has, I'm praying that he's one of the 20% that has a good outcome.


I know all about cancer trials and studies as my husband was involved in several. 
I too hope that your brother is one of the 20 % that has the good outcome.

Your brother from what you have said is a fighter and attitude and that fighting spirit does help. Keep us updated


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!
> 
> I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.
> 
> ...


Oh, Susan. I'll say a prayer for you and your brother. My very best wishes go out to you. Hang in there.


----------



## sjrNC (Jul 30, 2012)

SQM said:


> Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.
> 
> I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


Sorry to hear about your sister in law


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I just turned my calendar over to June, a few days late I know but this month's thought is worth repeating.

When you look for the sources of all the problems that confront human life we usually blame everything but the root cause: our lack of spiritual discipline and realisation. Particularly in this degenerate age, the world atmosphere is so very negative and the conditions around us conductive to little but evil karma and meaningless distractions, that not to have the protection of spiritual knowledge is to leave ourselves totally defenceless against the negative mind. HH The Dali Lama.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

sjrNC said:


> Sorry to hear about your sister in law


Thanks. Very kind. I am sorry to hear about it, too.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Somethings are covert for a reason. Just think that if they did give congress 30 days notice on this move. It would take 1 congressmen to blab to the press what the plan was to be. The soldier could have been executed in the time waiting to move on his release. He could have died from poor health. (None of the 5 at Gitmo looked sick or underfed.) What makes you believe that the 5 were released on demand? We could have offered them up for the exchange. It's all still classified information. As far as I am concerned, Benghazi is finished. I am sad that we lost 4 Americans, but nothing can bring them back. The only ones who are guilty in this are the terrorists that killed them.
> They were killed by terrorists and we are looking for them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Agree 100% PATTY.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.
> 
> I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


I am sorry to hear about your sister, I know and understand what you are going through. My sister died in 2009 from a brain tumour. She was diagnosed in May but it was inoperable. She died in the September. It was so sudden and so quick. Siblings are precious. Thinking of you and your pain.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I am sorry to hear about your sister, I know and understand what you are going through. My sister died in 2009 from a brain tumour. She was diagnosed in May but it was inoperable. She died in the September. It was so sudden and so quick. Siblings are precious. Thinking of you and your pain.


SIL. But on behalf of my older bro - thanks. She has a glioblastoma which is supposed to be the worst. Very depressing when I think about it, which is often. What a short time we have here and how fast it goes. What is the point of sniping at each other?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll tell you my thoughts. I feel the answer to the questions is your brother's. He wants to try something new and he's been accepted as part of the study. I hope it will benefit him and others. hugs.



susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!
> 
> I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Don't let the turkeys get you down. hugs



SQM said:


> Crazy Knit and Yarnie don't think so. One called me the devil today. Now that is the first. My mom had a whole closet full of names to call me but never that.
> 
> I don't think Jewish people put a lot of stock in the devil. I know we created the idea of Sah-tahn (accent on second syllable) but our Own Purl will probably have more to say about that than I can. Glad you think I am funny. I know myself better and see myself as a bit of a bore.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.
> 
> I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


You're very wise.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.
> 
> I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


I'm so sorry, SQM. It's horrible to watch cancer eat a loved one up--Brother's cancer came as a special shock because we're just just not a 'cancer' family. My mother lost an aunt years ago to uterine cancer, but that's been it. We only just found out a few months ago that Tim's cancer has been linked to 9/11 (he couldn't outrun the dust cloud when the Towers came down and got a chestful of asbestos, pulverized concrete, and glass shards).

It's especially hard now, though, and I've been transformed into a nail-biting wreck. The statistics for Brother's cancer have always been grim as he was diagnosed at Stage 4, but I always figured that there'd be time. Yes, even with chemo the odds were very much against him, but of course it wouldn't happen all at once. Now he has this new therapy on Monday, and if it works we're golden. If not (perish the thought)--well, it won't be good. Brother really wants to see us this weekend, so Sister and I are driving down on Saturday--we're all elated about the therapy, but I think scared to death of what may happen in the coming weeks.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Don't let the turkeys get you down. hugs


Thanks. I am okay with the Devil - it is Rumplestiltskin that I fear. Is he the one who would make me spin all night? I don't know how to spin. What can the Devil ask of me that Ex-man hasn't already asked?


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Susan. I'll say a prayer for you and your brother. My very best wishes go out to you. Hang in there.


Thanks, Nebraska. It's good to have friends here to confide in. I hate to burden either Sister or Brother with my worries frets and worries--goodness knows they have their own loads to tote!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Mos - if your Bro lives in NYC, I would like to help out any way I can. Let me know.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'll tell you my thoughts. I feel the answer to the questions is your brother's. He wants to try something new and he's been accepted as part of the study. I hope it will benefit him and others. hugs.


Thanks, Dame. Of course it's Tim's choice how to treat his cancer, and I wouldn't dream of trying to change my mind or even express my reservations to him. I think he does find some comfort in the thought that his experiences, whether positive or negative, will be of benefit to others. From everything I've read immunotherapy may be the #1 treatment choice for cancer in the near future--when it works it really really works, better than any knows chemo drug cocktail.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You'll be together with those you love.



susanmos2000 said:


> I'm so sorry, SQM. It's horrible to watch cancer eat a loved one up--Brother's cancer came as a special shock because we're just just not a 'cancer' family. My mother lost an aunt years ago to uterine cancer, but that's been it. We only just found out a few months ago that Tim's cancer has been linked to 9/11 (he couldn't outrun the dust cloud when the Towers came down and got a chestful of asbestos, pulverized concrete, and glass shards).
> 
> It's especially hard now, though, and I've been transformed into a nail-biting wreck. The statistics for Brother's cancer have always been grim as he was diagnosed at Stage 4, but I always figured that there'd be time. Yes, even with chemo the odds were very much against him, but of course it wouldn't happen all at once. Now he has this new therapy on Monday, and if it works we're golden. If not (perish the thought)--well, it won't be good. Brother really wants to see us this weekend, so Sister and I are driving down on Saturday--we're all elated about the therapy, but I think scared to death of what may happen in the coming weeks.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mos - if your Bro lives in NYC, I would like to help out any way I can. Let me know.


Thanks, SQM. Brother's on sabbatical from his university this year and is now having treatments in Southern California. It broke his heart to have to give up teaching, and I'm so hoping that he makes it back there.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am sorry to hear about your sister, I know and understand what you are going through. My sister died in 2009 from a brain tumour. She was diagnosed in May but it was inoperable. She died in the September. It was so sudden and so quick. Siblings are precious. Thinking of you and your pain.


Is there anyone who hasn't been touched by this horrible disease? It's remarkable that with all the research dollars being spent, the prognosis is still so awful. Something needs to change!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

susanmos2000 said:


> Is there anyone who hasn't been touched by this horrible disease? It's remarkable that with all the research dollars being spent, the prognosis is still so awful. Something needs to change!


Why should it change? It is a zillion dollar industry. If a cure is found, only one company will be rich and tons of people will be out of the Cancer Business. Cancer is good for Capitalism.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I am thinking of you and sending healing vibes your way. It is a very stressful time for you and your family but you have friends here who are thinking of you and care for you.


Susan - you already know that I am pulling for your brother -- I am filled with thoughts of you and him. Miracles do happen and maybe he is one of them. I have been thinking of you often and will continue to keep you both in my thoughts. You have many friends here.

Bless you friend.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Susan - you already know that I am pulling for your brother -- I am filled with thoughts of you and him. Miracles do happen and maybe he is one of them. I have been thinking of you often and will continue to keep you both in my thoughts. You have many friends here.
> 
> Bless you friend.


Thanks so much, Designer!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> SIL. But on behalf of my older bro - thanks. She has a glioblastoma which is supposed to be the worst. Very depressing when I think about it, which is often. What a short time we have here and how fast it goes. What is the point of sniping at each other?


My feelings exactly! I guess it is a matter of what is really important in the scheme of things. Priorities I guess.I will keep her in my thoughts and Prayers.

Susan knows how I feel about her and her brother -- We have been in touch for quite some time. I lost my oldest son to Esophagael cancer on Dec.13/2009 so I am well aware of what these two and many other familes are going through.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

I cannot imagine the pain you are going through, dear ones. My heart goes out in prayer to support you.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> SIL. But on behalf of my older bro - thanks. She has a glioblastoma which is supposed to be the worst. Very depressing when I think about it, which is often. What a short time we have here and how fast it goes. What is the point of sniping at each other?


Lost my mom to the same thing SQM.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Is there anyone who hasn't been touched by this horrible disease? It's remarkable that with all the research dollars being spent, the prognosis is still so awful. Something needs to change!


I am very sorry about your brother, and prayers and good thoughts go to you and your family. I guess if we live long enough we'll all be subject to this disease.
My friend and I sometimes talk about how the gay community was mobilized by the HIV-Aids epidemic. Activism (and $$$$) really led to knowledge, awareness, and an almost-cure for this disease. A cure for cancer always seems to elude our researchers.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> SIL. But on behalf of my older bro - thanks. She has a glioblastoma which is supposed to be the worst. Very depressing when I think about it, which is often. What a short time we have here and how fast it goes. What is the point of sniping at each other?


Prayers to you and your family. It is very depressing, and it seems that we all go through these tough times. It's a horrid disease!


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

I have just read there has been another shooting. Is this true?

At least four victims were reported in a shooting on a Seattle university campus Thursday, police said, adding that one suspect was in custody but another remained on the loose. 

It was not immediately clear whether the victims were wounded or killed. Police said at least two of them suffered gunshot wounds. 

The shooting took place on the campus of the Seattle Pacific University, the northwestern US city's police department said on its Twitter feed. 

"Total of 4 victims found so far at scene of Seattle Pacific shooting. No info on conditions at this time. Police still searching campus," the police department tweeted. 

It said one suspect was in custody but "officers still searching for 2nd suspect." 

KIRO TV said the two suspected gunmen were reported in separate buildings at the campus, citing witnesses as saying one came into a classroom and opened fire.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I am very sorry about your brother, and prayers and good thoughts go to you and your family. I guess if we live long enough we'll all be subject to this disease.
> My friend and I sometimes talk about how the gay community was mobilized by the HIV-Aids epidemic. Activism (and $$$$) really led to knowledge, awareness, and an almost-cure for this disease. A cure for cancer always seems to elude our researchers.


Thanks, Al.

Yes, cancer is tough...I suppose because there are so many different kinds, and each requires its own therapy. I agree though that the AIDS epidemic really changed the face of research and treatment options. I remember all the fuss when patients started demanding that research be streamlined, tried to lower/eliminate the percentages of those in studies who were required to receive placebos, and put an end the horrific practice of trying to keep people in the dark (even after a study was complete) about what they had or had not received. Thank God they were persistent--their efforts really paid off, not just for those with HIV but for patients with many serious diseases.


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## susanmos2000 (May 10, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just read there has been another shooting. Is this true?
> 
> At least four victims were reported in a shooting on a Seattle university campus Thursday, police said, adding that one suspect was in custody but another remained on the loose.
> 
> ...


Just checked--yes, it is. One dead, one in critical condition, two less seriously wounded.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> I never said the Taliban was the same as Al Qaeda. I said that not all terrorists are Taliban. Sen. Feinstein and others, both Dems and Repubs, have repeatedly written to the President and SOS Clinton about NOT releasing those 5 terrorists because they were dangerous.


The Taliban/AlQaeda sentence of mine was not in response to anything you said. It was the 500 previously released prisoners compared to 5 that I thought might get your attention, but no. Nothing this president does meets with anyone's approval, but nobody was up in arms with the release of 500??? Does it make any sense? And before you jump to any conclusions I am not always a "rah-rah" fan of the president. Waiting until everything about this gets sorted out would be the prudent thing to do, IMO.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi! So far so good. The first round went north of us. This next round is closer. Where one of my sons works, they had softball size hail. Luckily he left work early and all of my loved ones are safe. Thanks for asking!


So relieved that so far so good. I was off the PC for a couple of days, but saw some of the news and you and yours have been in my prayers.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> So relieved that so far so good. I was off the PC for a couple of days, but saw some of the news and you and yours have been in my prayers.


Thank you, so much!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes indeed. We all want the losers to become winners.
> 
> Brat - don't think that avatar fits my image of you. How about a girl with freckles and red braids sticking her tongue out. A real brat.


Do you mean Pippi Longstocking? Or the avatar of the Wendy logo? But I think Patty's new avatar is adorable.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am sorry to admit that I do not have any idea who Gilbert Godrey is. But from the sounds of things, he must be very intellectual, wonderfully witty, cute as a button and heaven to be with. (Sorry Al. Preposition police arrest this writer.)


Oh, maybe you mean Gilbert Gottfried. He is one of the most annoying comedians (IMHO), who was, I think, the voice of the Aflac duck.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> So relieved that so far so good. I was off the PC for a couple of days, but saw some of the news and you and yours have been in my prayers.


Welcome back!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Dice la Verita said:


> These old men that were released, first of all, were no Einsteins. They've been out of the "game" for over a decade and there have been many more dangerous terrorists created due to RW policies.
> 
> BTW, I thing this POW was quite obviously, IMO, suffering from a mental break BEFORE he first "walked off".
> 
> ...


We have a friend whose son enlisted right after high school. He had problems, but they still took him and turned him into a sniper. He did several tours of duty in Afghanistan and Iraq. He came out of the army a broken person. This boy should never have been accepted in the first place. And turning him into a sniper?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!
> 
> I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.
> 
> ...


Please, don't feel guilty. Nobody knows if the treatment will work, and your brother is brave for volunteering for it. You are all looking at a dire situation straight in the face, and that is real bravery. Bless you all--

:thumbup:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Dice la Verita said:


> Susan and SQL,
> 
> I too am so sorry for your family members and I'm saying a prayer for you tonight Susan.


Thanks, That Who Cannot Be Named.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I couldn't help but notice that with the exception of hunting, all of the things you listed came under "defense". A good enough reason for me. The problem with the mentally ill who are shooting up people, aren't the ones on the street. Its the ones whose doctors have prescribed psychotropic drugs which are KNOWN to cause people to commit homicide and suicide. EVERY mass shooter has been on these drugs. Why aren't we looking at that?


From what I've read, the problem is that the shooters DIDN'T take their meds.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> From what I've read, the problem is that the shooters DIDN'T take their meds.


I'd be interested in knowing where you'd read that. Everything I've read says that all of them were on these drugs and that homicide and suicide are known side effects (listed on pkg inserts). So please, if you could let me know?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Neb - what meds are you referring to? (Prep at end Al) Side effect lists contain every conceivable complaint that the drug companies receive. So some of the side effects are very, very rare. And I think May gets it - when many mentally ill people stop their meds, they then fall apart.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> theyarnlady
> MYOB. No-one needs your help. As to medications, you seem to be on insufficient ones. Check your writings, they are in need of treatment. Huck


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is that adorable redhead anyone we know? I love redheads.



MarilynKnits said:


> Do you mean Pippi Longstocking? Or the avatar of the Wendy logo? But I think Patty's new avatar is adorable.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I agree that many don't take the responsibility of voting. But I understand it. How can we continue to vote for the lesser of two evils? How can we continue to betray ourselves? It makes no difference who you vote for. Nothing changes.


I'm only going to respond to this part of your longer post right now as my brain is getting pretty slow. We must continue to vote. It is one of our most important civic duties. Of course nothing will change if fewer and fewer of us vote. Those who don't vote get the government they deserve and lose the privilege of complaining about the government they have to put up with because they failed to perform their civic duty.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Camacho said:


> Isn't that when you get to stay up all night eating ice cream? We have a friend who invited people over for blintzes and ice cream for Shavuot this year. We turned the invitation down, because my husband is already staying up all night with his work (four jobs) plus visiting our son in the hospital and making many of the phone calls related to our son's needs, plus taking care of me plus being a semi-responsible dog owner, and we bought a pint of Ben & Jerry's. Good news flash: it looks as though our son is coming home from the hospital on Wednesday. Three cheers!


Well, yes, if you're in your twenties you get to stay up and eat ice cream. If you're older than that, you're too smart. What happens in my neighborhood is that all the synagogues and Jewish centers have classes during the night, from about 11:00pm to 5am. My son emailed me the master list, which was overwhelming. It was a few pages in tiny type.

Happy to hear about your son.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

susanmos2000 said:


> Well, we've been on an emotional roller coaster the past forty-eight hours or so--please, someone stop the ride!
> 
> I think I mentioned a few days ago that Brother had been accepted a research study that involves immunotherapy (re-programming the body's immune system so that it hunts out and destroy cancer cells)...well, we were devastated to learn on Wednesday that he HADN'T been accepted. To qualify patients have to have not taken any of the traditional chemo meds for at least six weeks--and that doesn't fit Tim's case, not by a long shot. The researchers will willing to hold a spot open for him and admit him in six weeks if he immediately went off all meds, but T's oncologist absolutely refused to consider it.
> 
> ...


Susan, don't worry about the string-pulling. It's what makes the world go round. I only hope it does some good for him.

What a horrible time for you. I've had to watch someone I love die away piece by piece until he said it was time. All along, I kept thinking there must be something else they could do, some doctor who knew more than my brother's doctor. As long as there's hope, keep hoping, but prepare for the worst.

I had the impression that the meds weren't working any more, so how could things be worse without them?

You have friends here who love you and are sending good thoughts to Brother. Call on us anytime you need to.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Crazy Knit and Yarnie don't think so. One called me the devil today. Now that is the first. My mom had a whole closet full of names to call me but never that.
> 
> I don't think Jewish people put a lot of stock in the devil. I know we created the idea of Sah-tahn (accent on second syllable) but our Own Purl will probably have more to say about that than I can. Glad you think I am funny. I know myself better and see myself as a bit of a bore.


The devil? I didn't realize they had such imaginations? The Jewish idea of Satan (not the same as the devil - I don't think he's colored red or has horns and a tail) is as a prosecutor, to try to talk God out of forgiving people and doing nice things for them. I don't see you doing that, even to KnitCrazy. If you can, please send me link to see where they did that - I'm afraid that going through the kissy-faced messages on D&D will give me diabetes.

I've never found you a bore. Exasperating, but not boring.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Hi Mos. So sorry to hear about your bro. My SIL has awful brain cancer and we would be thrilled for a 20% chance for her. In her case, only 5% make it to one year. My Evil Twin and I are going to Chicago soon to help my older brother and I guess to say goodbye. It is very dreadful. I cannot believe we will lose her. 20% sounds great to me.
> 
> I think we have to accept the fact that as we get older, losing people becomes more common. Hard to accept, but necessary to do so.


Another horrible situation. I'm very sorry to hear about your SIL. I'm beginning to think it was better when people died in their forties and fifties of sudden, acute illnesses than now, when they live long and then take long to die.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why should it change? It is a zillion dollar industry. If a cure is found, only one company will be rich and tons of people will be out of the Cancer Business. Cancer is good for Capitalism.


That only means the U.S. won't find the cure. Time to call in the Israelis. Unfortunately, thanks to the various boycotts, they're cut off from much research. They'll have to do it themselves.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you MIB. Voting is crucial. Never ever let yourself give up on it.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm only going to respond to this part of your longer post right now as my brain is getting pretty slow. We must continue to vote. It is one of our most important civic duties. Of course nothing will change if fewer and fewer of us vote. Those who don't vote get the government they deserve and lose the privilege of complaining about the government they have to put up with because they failed to perform their civic duty.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like good clean fun. I'm constantly amazed by the things I learn around here. Many thank you's.



Poor Purl said:


> Well, yes, if you're in your twenties you get to stay up and eat ice cream. If you're older than that, you're too smart. What happens in my neighborhood is that all the synagogues and Jewish centers have classes during the night, from about 11:00pm to 5am. My son emailed me the master list, which was overwhelming. It was a few pages in tiny type.
> 
> Happy to hear about your son.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Neb - what meds are you referring to? (Prep at end Al) Side effect lists contain every conceivable complaint that the drug companies receive. So some of the side effects are very, very rare. And I think May gets it - when many mentally ill people stop their meds, they then fall apart.


The ones I'm thinking of are SSRIs. And yes, it would be very, very rare considering the number of people who take them. But if this is the link, it should be looked into. The number of people who have gone on these killing rampages is comparatively small, but the effects have been huge on everyone in the country. Since its a known side effect, and every one of these shooters have been on these drugs, it should be a factor in cause and prevention. Just banning guns won't solve the problem. The last killer, killed half of his victims with a knife. Are we going to ban knives? Or do we look for the real cause?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm only going to respond to this part of your longer post right now as my brain is getting pretty slow. We must continue to vote. It is one of our most important civic duties. Of course nothing will change if fewer and fewer of us vote. Those who don't vote get the government they deserve and lose the privilege of complaining about the government they have to put up with because they failed to perform their civic duty.


Theoretically, I agree with you. But even though I have "the privilege" of complaining, I'm tired of it. Our system is rigged so that only the elite who control everything, can even run. Its like you can vote for A or B. They're the same thing. But you get to vote. I haven't stopped voting yet, even though I do consider it. I have voted in every election since I was old enough to vote. Even when my candidate wins, it makes no difference. What we're doing isn't working. How do we change it?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I have just read there has been another shooting. Is this true?
> 
> At least four victims were reported in a shooting on a Seattle university campus Thursday, police said, adding that one suspect was in custody but another remained on the loose.
> 
> ...


EveMCooke
I stated earlier that I fear people around me with guns much more than terrorists and surely enough another shooting. Latest I heard 1 Shooter (in custody), one dead and two wounded. Time for a class-action suite against the NRA. Wonder when businesses wake up and fight the NRA. Who would want to go to any Mall or Event with everyone carrying a gun? That makes Gun Sellers rich and drive others out of business.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Sounds like good clean fun. I'm constantly amazed by the things I learn around here. Many thank you's.


If my son weren't so busy with "good clean fun," maybe I'd have grandchildren by now.

Seriously, I've met many of his friends. We have a bunch of them to dinner a few times a year, and by a bunch I mean about a dozen at a time. They're bright, attractive, educated, presentable, doing interesting work, and very single. Any of our (DH and mine) friends who meet them wonder why they're still single. The Nazis needn't have bothered to wipe out the Jews; after the next generation, there simply won't be any more. :roll:

I have to show you how efficiently Google Ads work. After your message that I'm responding to now was an ad that read

Moyel Circumcise Brit
mohel-bris.com
Certified Moyel Expeditiously Rabbi Rubin Meeting your Bris needs

an ad for ritual circumcision. Pity that thread was closed - Rabbi Rubin could have cleaned up!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> I stated earlier that I fear people around me with guns much more than terrorists and surely enough another shooting. Latest I heard 1 Shooter (in custody), one dead and two wounded. Time for a class-action suite against the NRA. Wonder when businesses wake up and fight the NRA. Who would want to go to any Mall or Event with everyone carrying a gun? That makes Gun Sellers rich and drive others out of business.


That makes sense to me, but the NRA has its own brand of sense - NonSense - that seems to be popular with too many.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

WED JUN 04, 2014 AT 10:15 AM PDT
IU ... WTF, Ohio?
byJoan McCarter

Well, isn't this *special*. The Ohio legislature is, of course, considering more legislation to ban insurance coverage for abortion in public and private insurance (because women can't be trusted to make the right decisions with their own money) but also that would ban insurance plans from covering "drugs or devices used to prevent the implantation of a fertilized ovum." That would include, yes, the most widely used forms of effective birth control, the pill and IUDs.

Here's the genius behind the bill.



> Rep. John Becker (R), who sponsored the bill, said during Tuesdays hearing that birth control pills should not be banned under HB 351. But he still wants IUDs, which are long-acting forms of birth control that are inserted in the uterus, to fall under the ban because he considers IUDs to be a form of abortion. *This is just a personal view. Im not a medical doctor,* he said.


By all means, let's all legislate medicine on the basis of our personal views. While I'm not a medical doctor, my personal view is that Rep. John Becker is a colossal a..hole, and in order to find out precisely why, he should be subject to monthly, unanesthetized colonoscopies until the root cause of his a..holery is determined. Medical science demands it. We could make a law out of that, no?

I know that it's very hard for all these #NotaScientists to restrain themselvesmuch harder apparently than it is to educate themselves, particularly when it comes to lady parts. But good lord. I guess there's one thing to feel heartened about. Becker apparently thinks banning birth control pills is too radical. Even though he's not bright enough to figure out that that's what his legislation does.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/06/04/1304348/-IU-WTF-Ohio?detail=email


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> That makes sense to me, but the NRA has its own brand of sense - NonSense - that seems to be popular with too many.


And I think that it makes absolutely no sense that any one of us would be willing to give up any of our rights. Our rights are being disintegrated at breakneck speed and it should concern every one of us. This can only lead in one direction. Soon, we will have no freedoms at all because people can't recognize their value. About a year ago, I reread the book "1984" by George Orwell. Everyone should either read or reread this book. You will clearly see the road we are on. We are living in dangerous times. We must not surrender our rights to a global elite (the 1%). They do not have our best interests at heart.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And I think that it makes absolutely no sense that any one of us would be willing to give up any of our rights. Our rights are being disintegrated at breakneck speed and it should concern every one of us. This can only lead in one direction. Soon, we will have no freedoms at all because people can't recognize their value. About a year ago, I reread the book "1984" by George Orwell. Everyone should either read or reread this book. You will clearly see the road we are on. We are living in dangerous times. We must not surrender our rights to a global elite (the 1%). They do not have our best interests at heart.


No other amendment to the Constitution guarantees us *unlimited* freedom: freedom of speech doesn't extend to crying Fire in a theater, and freedom of assembly apparently doesn't extend to protesters. The right to trial doesn't extend to people held in Guantanamo nor, in the eyes of some, to Bowe Bergdahl.

Why would it be removing our freedoms if guns (like cars) had to be registered; in fact, why not make gun owners give reasons for needing guns?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> No other amendment to the Constitution guarantees us *unlimited* freedom: freedom of speech doesn't extend to crying Fire in a theater, and freedom of assembly apparently doesn't extend to protesters. The right to trial doesn't extend to people held in Guantanamo nor, in the eyes of some, to Bowe Bergdahl.
> 
> Why would it be removing our freedoms if guns (like cars) had to be registered; in fact, why not make gun owners give reasons for needing guns?


You make my point about the disintegration of our rights. The constitution puts no limits on our rights. The supreme court is limiting our rights. And while you may agree with one ruling or another, the supreme court has proven its political biases over and over. The supreme court was only intended to interpret the law, not to legislate from the bench. If we allow the supreme court, congress or the president to limit our rights, we will soon have no rights at all. Having rights makes a people difficult to control. And that is what both parties are doing. They are putting limits on our rights, to control us. A free people need not give reasons for anything they choose to do. They are free!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If my son weren't so busy with "good clean fun," maybe I'd have grandchildren by now.
> 
> Seriously, I've met many of his friends. We have a bunch of them to dinner a few times a year, and by a bunch I mean about a dozen at a time. They're bright, attractive, educated, presentable, doing interesting work, and very single. Any of our (DH and mine) friends who meet them wonder why they're still single. The Nazis needn't have bothered to wipe out the Jews; after the next generation, there simply won't be any more. :roll:
> 
> ...


Too funny!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd be interested in knowing where you'd read that. Everything I've read says that all of them were on these drugs and that homicide and suicide are known side effects (listed on pkg inserts). So please, if you could let me know?


KFN, I'm sorry that I don't have sources available--I read a lot. But if I recall correctly, Adam Lanza refused to take his meds, and I don't remember if the director's son was on meds or not--I'd say not. Millions of people take SSRI's daily and because of the meds, they can function. Like another poster wrote, it's when people go off their meds without medical advice that they get dangerous, both to themselves and other people. It really made me furious to hear that a local pastor advised women suffering from postpartum depression that they didn't need meds, just Jesus. That's how Andrea Yates snapped.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You make my point about the disintegration of our rights. The constitution puts no limits on our rights. The supreme court is limiting our rights. And while you may agree with one ruling or another, the supreme court has proven its political biases over and over. The supreme court was only intended to interpret the law, not to legislate from the bench. If we allow the supreme court, congress or the president to limit our rights, we will soon have no rights at all. Having rights makes a people difficult to control. And that is what both parties are doing. They are putting limits on our rights, to control us. A free people need not give reasons for anything they choose to do. They are free!


"They" (the republicans, mostly men) are trying to control women's bodies and voting rights, most notably, but we shouldn't apply the "slippery slope" argument. Take things one and a time.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

maysmom said:


> KFN, I'm sorry that I don't have sources available--I read a lot. But if I recall correctly, Adam Lanza refused to take his meds, and I don't remember if the director's son was on meds or not--I'd say not. Millions of people take SSRI's daily and because of the meds, they can function. Like another poster wrote, it's when people go off their meds without medical advice that they get dangerous, both to themselves and other people. It really made me furious to hear that a local pastor advised women suffering from postpartum depression that they didn't need meds, just Jesus. That's how Andrea Yates snapped.


Well, if you run into it again, I'd be interested in reading it, please. From my understanding, the side effects from getting off the drugs are different than the side effects that the drugs cause. When I was going through my cancer treatment, my doctor put me on Zoloft. I didn't have any problems getting off the drug. But my friend, when she was going through her treatment was put on a different SSRI drug. When she tried to taper back, to get off the drug, she got extremely ill. She couldn't function and just had to stay on the drug. I am fully aware that SSRIs give benefit to many people. But I think that more research should be done into the side effects. And research should be ongoing into medications that don't have these horrific side effects. Because even one homicide or suicide is too many.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> "They" (the republicans, mostly men) are trying to control women's bodies and voting rights, most notably, but we shouldn't apply the "slippery slope" argument. Take things one and a time.


If you think that the republicans shouldn't limit our rights, then don't you think that the democrats shouldn't either? We shouldn't allow just the side we agree with, to limit our rights. Because that allows both sides the ability to end our rights. Neither party should have that power.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> And this is what I meant when I pointed out that the great discussion that.was going on with NIB re abortion could never of happened over ar D&P.
> 
> SQM isnt even able to post over there without being acused of being the devil. Can you imagine if she tried to earnestly discuss abortion the way NIB was ABLE to here?
> 
> ...


Am I NIB?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> And this is what I meant when I pointed out that the great discussion that.was going on with NIB re abortion could never of happened over ar D&P.
> 
> SQM isnt even able to post over there without being acused of being the devil. Can you imagine if she tried to earnestly discuss abortion the way NIB was ABLE to here?
> 
> ...


Actually Yarnie Pmed me with a lovely apology and we chatted about glioblastomas. She was actually helpful since her mom died of that. So they may bash me online, but I have been getting very nice PMs from most of them. I guess I am their secret pen pal.

Kindness always pays my Morphic Friend.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> And this is what I meant when I pointed out that the great discussion that.was going on with NIB re abortion could never of happened over ar D&P.
> 
> SQM isnt even able to post over there without being acused of being the devil. Can you imagine if she tried to earnestly discuss abortion the way NIB was ABLE to here?
> 
> ...


Truth-Teller, I think you truly tell the truth.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> ..... and the RW court legislated from the bench when it took the NRA position that the second amendment was about anything other than the ability for a DEVELOPING new country making an ad hoc military via militias.
> 
> I believe in the second amendment, just not the DISTORTED interpretation of it bought and paid for by gun corporations via the NRA!
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> ..... and the RW court legislated from the bench when it took the NRA position that the second amendment was about anything other than the ability for a DEVELOPING new country making an ad hoc military via militias.
> 
> I believe in the second amendment, just not the DISTORTED interpretation of it bought and paid for by gun corporations via the NRA!
> 
> ...


Nope! The second ammendment was not about forming a new country. It was about KEEPING that country. The word " regulated" only indicated that they meet and practice together and be prepared. You cannot have a militia of the people, if the people are disarmed. Our founding fathers called for all able bodied men to own a gun and be prepared to serve. The militia's purpose was not to defend the federal government but to protect the state's rights FROM the federal government, to prevent them from overstepping their limited powers. In 1902 the government passed the Dick Act, which changed the state's militias into the National Guard.  The federal government had strict limits on what they could call on the guard to do. But in 1908, they removed those limits and the National Guard became just another branch of the federal military. The people still retained their rights to form militias in their individual states. After all, the whole point of the Militia Act was to protect the states from the federal government. Never in history had any country allowed these rights to the people. The second ammendment was the manner in which the people could retain their rights against a tyrannical government. The second amendment not only states that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state but it also declares that " the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT be infringed"! The definition of infringe is: act to limit, undermine or encroach upon. Any type of gun control is a violation of the second amendment. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" is very clear. There is no ambiguity.


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## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> ... and that disproves my point that an earnest discussion cant be had on that thread the way it's happened here how?
> 
> Yes things are always different when THEY have a personal vested interest. God forbid they learn how to relate to those who are unlikethem.
> 
> ...


What a vile thing to say.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> Mam, again the word REGULATED is in the 2nd ammendment. That LITERLLY means that the right is subject to limitation.
> 
> And the idea that its against the law to falsely yell fire in a.crowded theater is an example of the "disintergration" of our rights is ridiculous.
> 
> Its merely a clarification that protects peoples right to life.


Nowhere does it say that our rights are limited! It says; A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed". Break it down. A well regulated militia is necessary. The right to bear arms shall not be infringed. If people do not have the right to keep and bear arms, HOW do they form a militia? Shall NOT be infringed!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> That's a dishonest comparison because knives are necessary instruments needed for everyday living.
> 
> Guns are designed to kill/harm. Thats their essential purpose.
> 
> ...


Inanimate objects do not kill! People kill. If you want to stop the killing, figure out WHY people kill. Any and all inanimate objects can be used as weapons.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> Unfettered access to guns is a MUCH MORE prevelant contribution to unessassary gun deaths than one of these drugs. Sure the combination makes it worse, but
> 
> There are LOTS of non-crazy people who kill with guns, not to mention the "accidents".


And do you have any figures to back up your statement? I believe that responsible, law abiding gun owners far outnumber the crazy people, you refer to.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nope! The second ammendment was not about forming a new country. It was about KEEPING that country. The word " regulated" only indicated that they meet and practice together and be prepared. You cannot have a militia of the people, if the people are disarmed. Our founding fathers called for all able bodied men to own a gun and be prepared to serve. The militia's purpose was not to defend the federal government but to protect the state's rights FROM the federal government, to prevent them from overstepping their limited powers. In 1902 the government passed the Dick Act, which changed the state's militias into the National Guard. The federal government had strict limits on what they could call on the guard to do. But in 1908, they removed those limits and the National Guard became just another branch of the federal military. The people still retained their rights to form militias in their individual states. After all, the whole point of the Militia Act was to protect the states from the federal government. Never in history had any country allowed these rights to the people. The second ammendment was the manner in which the people could retain their rights against a tyrannical government. The second amendment not only states that a well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state but it also declares that " the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms, SHALL NOT be infringed"! The definition of infringe is: act to limit, undermine or encroach upon. Any type of gun control is a violation of the second amendment. "The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed" is very clear. There is no ambiguity.


Of course there is ambiguity. The "people" have no right to keep and bear nuclear weapons, do they? Can each homeowner have a tank with a howitzer in his backyard, next to the hot tub? I can understand where many believe that everyone has a right to a weapon, but not to unlimited numbers and types of weapons.

Come to think of it, "the right of the people" is not "the right of each individual person." It just indicates that the populace, esp. those involved in the militia or whatever name it goes by, can have arms, not everybody.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> Theres a good amount of reasearch on these drugs , just a lot of public ignorance.
> 
> Im sorry, but if your friend is telling you she CANT taper off the
> 
> drug, she's either misguided and needs a new doctor or she's lying to you.


I SAID, she got extremely ill and could not function. She did not have the luxury of missing work. And had to be able to function in her job.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jhawk213 said:


> What a vile thing to say.


Why vile?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Verita 1 said:


> ... and that disproves my point that an earnest discussion cant be had on that thread the way it's happened here how?
> 
> Yes things are always different when THEY have a personal vested interest. God forbid they learn how to relate to those who are unlikethem.
> 
> ...


I have to tell you, YOU don't relate so well with those who are unlike you, either. You bulldoze over other people's opinions and insist that you're right. You can't see any POV other than your own. So perhaps, you could take that into consideration.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Inanimate objects do not kill! People kill. If you want to stop the killing, figure out WHY people kill. Any and all inanimate objects can be used as weapons.


And they can kill, too. Guns have been known to fire when falling to the ground. Rocks can fall down hills onto the heads of people. Wildfires start spontaneously and burn down houses with residents asleep inside. But there is still the truth that people with guns kill a whole lot more than people without guns.

In one sense we know why people kill: because they think their own needs trump everyone else's. This is a problem we can never do away with. All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for such people to get hold of guns, even if it means making it equally difficult for the rest of us.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If you think that the republicans shouldn't limit our rights, then don't you think that the democrats shouldn't either? We shouldn't allow just the side we agree with, to limit our rights. Because that allows both sides the ability to end our rights. Neither party should have that power.


The people trying to limit access to abortion and making it more difficult for people to vote are not Democrats. The legislators in red states are the ones trying to do those things.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And they can kill, too. Guns have been known to fire when falling to the ground. Rocks can fall down hills onto the heads of people. Wildfires start spontaneously and burn down houses with residents asleep inside. But there is still the truth that people with guns kill a whole lot more than people without guns.
> 
> In one sense we know why people kill: because they think their own needs trump everyone else's. This is a problem we can never do away with. All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for such people to get hold of guns, even if it means making it equally difficult for the rest of us.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course there is ambiguity. The "people" have no right to keep and bear nuclear weapons, do they? Can each homeowner have a tank with a howitzer in his backyard, next to the hot tub? I can understand where many believe that everyone has a right to a weapon, but not to unlimited numbers and types of weapons.
> 
> Come to think of it, "the right of the people" is not "the right of each individual person." It just indicates that the populace, esp. those involved in the militia or whatever name it goes by, can have arms, not everybody.


Do governments have the right to keep and bear nuclear weapons? Tanks with howitzers? Who gave them that right? No one! They took it! That's why our founding fathers gave us the protection in the first place. Governments grow out of control. Always! They knew this. They just never imagined the degree to which our government would go. Our founding fathers also passed the Posse Comitatus Act in 1878. It was intended that the federal government could not bring the federal military against its own people. But in 1981, they changed it. The force of the national guard can be brought against the people. And of course we now have the department of homeland security which is as well equipped as the military. Our founding fathers were trying to protect us from what is happening right now. We just let them.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> The people trying to limit access to abortion and making it more difficult for people to vote are not Democrats. The legislators in red states are the ones trying to do those things.


Thanks for reminding us about the desperate deeds of the Red States. If they were so confident of the righteousness of their position, why are they trying to limit voter turnout?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Inanimate objects do not kill! People kill. If you want to stop the killing, figure out WHY people kill. Any and all inanimate objects can be used as weapons.


A person's hands are necessary to the person, yet they can also kill another human being. I agree, to stop the killing, know WHY people kill other humans.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And they can kill, too. Guns have been known to fire when falling to the ground. Rocks can fall down hills onto the heads of people. Wildfires start spontaneously and burn down houses with residents asleep inside. But there is still the truth that people with guns kill a whole lot more than people without guns.
> 
> In one sense we know why people kill: because they think their own needs trump everyone else's. This is a problem we can never do away with. All we can do is make it as difficult as possible for such people to get hold of guns, even if it means making it equally difficult for the rest of us.


I don't know about you. But I don't want to live in a protected bubble. I want to be free! I want to keep my rights. If that means risk, so be it. Unarmed people have NEVER been protected.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> The people trying to limit access to abortion and making it more difficult for people to vote are not Democrats. The legislators in red states are the ones trying to do those things.


Yes, but if the dems are allowed to limit our rights, ie gun control and the reps are allowed to limit our rights, ie abortion, then why is one OK and not the other. Neither side should be allowed to limit or take away our rights. If both sides are allowed, we will have no rights. In order to keep the rights we want, we must also fight to keep the ones we don't want.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know about you. But I don't want to live in a protected bubble. I want to be free! I want to keep my rights. If that means risk, so be it. Unarmed people have NEVER been protected.


I live in what at times has been considered the most dangerous city in this country, certainly not a protected bubble. Though I've sometimes been frightened to walk on some streets, I've never considered carrying a gun for protection, because I probably would not fire it for fear of killing someone, something I could not live with. I know very few New Yorkers who would like to own a gun - just the opposite.

Do you need a gun in order to feel free? Then that's a very strange kind of freedom. If everyone were to carry a gun to feel free, what do you think would happen? If everyone has a gun, why do you need police? Why any law? If you have a gun, you can get what you want simply by waving it around and frightening those around you. And imagine if several people did that - how long would it take before someone is wounded or even killed? Accident shmaccident - people who carry guns will eventually use them.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Thanks for reminding us about the desperate deeds of the Red States. If they were so confident of the righteousness of their position, why are they trying to limit voter turnout?


They are not. There are the tired and weary propaganda and talking points from and for the Left, DNC, MSNBC and The Daily Kos.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Inanimate objects do not kill! People kill. If you want to stop the killing, figure out WHY people kill. Any and all inanimate objects can be used as weapons.


 :thumbup: I believe in every instance of the unforgivable shootings in the schools, etc., have been by someone with mental deficiencies. That is the problem to address, not the guns.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> And do you have any figures to back up your statement? I believe that responsible, law abiding gun owners far outnumber the crazy people, you refer to.


Another fact - bravo.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> They are not. There are the tired and weary propaganda and talking points from and for the Left, DNC and The Daily Kos.


I remember one instance where in Southern Fla where many older, liberal people live, they closed the washrooms to the voting public. Sadly, the lines are long and to vote, you have to stand in line for hours. What was that all about? This was done in one of the few blue counties in Fla.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have to tell you, YOU don't relate so well with those who are unlike you, either. You bulldoze over other people's opinions and insist that you're right. You can't see any POV other than your own. So perhaps, you could take that into consideration.


 :thumbup: You are on a roll. Lisa cannot communicate to anyone, never mind enter into a discussion with those who are against her beliefs. She exists to insult and ram her opinion, and worthless and inaccurate info, down everyone's throats. In a most disgusting way, I'll add, that even Admin, thankfully, will no longer tolerate.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, but if the dems are allowed to limit our rights, ie gun control and the reps are allowed to limit our rights, ie abortion, then why is one OK and not the other. Neither side should be allowed to limit or take away our rights. If both sides are allowed, we will have no rights. In order to keep the rights we want, we must also fight to keep the ones we don't want.


The Dems want to tell us what and how much to eat, where to work, where and how to be schooled, how bright our lightbulbs can be, how fast are cars can travel, how much electricity we can consume, to what temp we can heat or cool our homes, how much water we can use and when, where we can travel, how much we are to give of ourselves and salaries to others, tax us to kingdom come, tell us where and how much health care and services we are allowed, what we can say and not say, what we must tolerate and not speak against, how to vote and behave, remove our arms allowed to us by LAW, how to decorate our homes and dress, what religion or lack thereof we can follow, and attempt to regulate EVERY single thing in our lives. Least we forget, all business owners are forced to hire and pay what the government tells them, cannot hire anyone, and are so overly regulated and taxed, most either take their business overseas, or close existing ones or refuse to start any new ones.

Oh, and let's not forget, that America should have NO borders, and every single person who resides in or comes to visit the USA has EXACTLY or MORE rights, privileges, and entitlements than those of an American. That isn't freedom and there are NO rights in that type of society.

It also ain't America.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems want to tell us what and how much to eat, where to work, where and how to be schooled, how much we are to give of ourselves and salaries to others, tax us to kingdom come, tell us where and how much health care and services we are allowed, and attempt to regulate EVERY single thing in our lives. That isn't freedom and there are NO rights in that type of society.


Bloomberg, the non-Dem ex-major, wanted to regulate the size of pop that was allowed to be sold. So Dems cannot take the rap for telling us how much to eat or drink.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> I remember one instance where in Southern Fla where many older, liberal people live, they closed the washrooms to the voting public. Sadly, the lines are long and to vote, you have to stand in line for hours. What was that all about? This was done in one of the few blue counties in Fla.


You also have exaggerated info. Why didn't you mention the pols times were extended, the advance voting set record precedences, people had other and more options as to locations including other restrooms to use. You did say ONE instance.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems want to tell us what and how much to eat, where to work, where and how to be schooled, how bright our lightbulbs can be, how fast are cars and travel, where we can travel, how much we are to give of ourselves and salaries to others, tax us to kingdom come, tell us where and how much health care and services we are allowed, what we can say and not say, what we must tolerate and not speak against, how to vote and behave, remove our arms allowed to us, how to decorate our homes and dress, what religion or lack thereof we can follow, and attempt to regulate EVERY single thing in our lives. Oh, and let's not forget, that America should have NO borders, and every single person who resides in or comes to visit the USA has EXACTLY or MORE rights, privileges, and entitlements than those of an American. That isn't freedom and there are NO rights in that type of society.
> 
> It also ain't America.


It's tough to be a responsible citizen of this country, ain't it? You're more than just a tad overboard aren't you? I won't argue with you at all because we already know your colors, don't we?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Bloomberg, the non-Dem ex-major, wanted to regulate the size of pop that was allowed to be sold. So Dems cannot take the rap for telling us how much to eat or drink.


Bloomberg, is a Harvard groupie and while in the Indepd party, caucuses with the Dems and is one of the most Liberal people to ever govern NY. His stupid idea was approved, and then later corrected by someone with common sense.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

Huck: And on and on and on.....


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Bloomberg, the non-Dem ex-major, wanted to regulate the size of pop that was allowed to be sold. So Dems cannot take the rap for telling us how much to eat or drink.


What is your opinion of Giuliani and how he governed NYC as Mayor?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

alcameron said:


> It's tough to be a responsible citizen of this country, ain't it? You're more than just a tad overboard aren't you? I won't argue with you at all because we already know your colors, don't we?


The truth hurts doesn't it Al. We already know your true colors, don't we?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I live in what at times has been considered the most dangerous city in this country, certainly not a protected bubble. Though I've sometimes been frightened to walk on some streets, I've never considered carrying a gun for protection, because I probably would not fire it for fear of killing someone, something I could not live with. I know very few New Yorkers who would like to own a gun - just the opposite.
> 
> Do you need a gun in order to feel free? Then that's a very strange kind of freedom. If everyone were to carry a gun to feel free, what do you think would happen? If everyone has a gun, why do you need police? Why any law? If you have a gun, you can get what you want simply by waving it around and frightening those around you. And imagine if several people did that - how long would it take before someone is wounded or even killed? Accident shmaccident - people who carry guns will eventually use them.


Our feelings are similar in some ways. I live in a part of the country where LOTS of people own and even carry guns. I've never considered carrying a gun for the same reasons as you. Guns actually scare me. We've never owned guns. I held one, once. And fired it 2 or 3 times. It scared the crap out of me. I don't want one. But I will never give up my right to have one! I like the thought that some law abiding gun owner might protect me in a time of need. But alas, all of the mass shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".

Limiting or banning guns won't stop shooters either. In my daughter's senior year of high school, a kid whose dad was a police officer, brought his dad's service revolver to her school. He shot the principal and one of the asst principals. The asst principal died. Our school had an armed police officer. He hid under a desk in a nearby office, while the shooting occurred. In this case, the gun belonged to a police officer. This kid had a history of getting into trouble. His mother had just sent him off to live with his father. He had gotten suspended from school and took revenge. We need to look at the real problem. Law abiding gin owners are not the problem. Perhaps, contributory to the problem is how the media turns these events into a circus. The killer lives in infamy. The news should be reported without giving the killers name and it shouldn't be turned into a media event. It just gives other crazy people ideas. Lest you not believe my story here is a link to ABC newscoverage. http://abcnews.go.com/US/son-omaha-detective-shoots-school-officials-kills/story?id=12549391

And finally, I think that if everyone were armed, gun crimes would go down. FBI statistics actually show that to be true. In cities that allow concealed carry, gun crimes have dropped drastically. Cities like Chicago, which has the strictest gun laws, have the highest amount of gun crimes. The criminals are armed, and law abiding citizens are not.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Our feelings are similar in some ways. I live in a part of the country where LOTS of people own and even carry guns. I've never considered carrying a gun for the same reasons as you. Guns actually scare me. We've never owned guns. I held one, once. And fired it 2 or 3 times. It scared the crap out of me. I don't want one. But I will never give up my right to have one! I like the thought that some law abiding gun owner might protect me in a time of need. But alas, all of the mass shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".
> 
> Limiting or banning guns won't stop shooters either. In my daughter's senior year of high school, a kid whose dad was a police officer, brought his dad's service revolver to her school. He shot the principal and one of the asst principals. The asst principal died. Our school had an armed police officer. He hid under a desk in a nearby office, while the shooting occurred. In this case, the gun belonged to a police officer. This kid had a history of getting into trouble. His mother had just sent him off to live with his father. He had gotten suspended from school and took revenge. We need to look at the real problem. Law abiding gin owners are not the problem. Perhaps, contributory to the problem is how the media turns these events into a circus. The killer lives in infamy. The news should be reported without giving the killers name and it shouldn't be turned into a media event. It just gives other crazy people ideas. Lest you not believe my story here is a link to ABC newscoverage. http://abcnews.go.com/US/son-omaha-detective-shoots-school-officials-kills/story?id=12549391
> 
> And finally, I think that if everyone were armed, gun crimes would go down. FBI statistics actually show that to be true. In cities that allow concealed carry, gun crimes have dropped drastically. Cities like Chicago, which has the strictest gun laws, have the highest amount of gun crimes. The criminals are armed, and law abiding citizens are not.


Do you seriously think it would be a good idea for everyone to be walking around with guns?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Bloomberg, is a Harvard groupie and while in the Indepd party, caucuses with the Dems and is one of the most Liberal people to ever govern NY. His stupid idea was approved, and then later corrected by someone with common sense.


Isn't anyone outraged that BOTH sides are trying to dictate what we do and how we live? I hear a lot of people TALK about the problem, but I don't see anybody doing anything to restore our rights. Don't forget, it was the republicans who shoved the patriot act and the ndaa down our throats! Both sides are taking away our rights. And as I said before, in order to keep the rights we want, we have to fight for the ones we don't want. As goes one, so goes the other.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Do you seriously think it would be a good idea for everyone to be walking around with guns?


Anyone who's a law abiding citizen, yup. The problems occur when the criminals and the crazies are armed but the law abiding citizens aren't. The police don't and can't prevent crime. They can only deal with it after the fact. Who is going to protect the people?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Dice la Veritta 01 said:


> In this country. WE did. It's a representative democracy, and if we don't want our country to keep and bear those things, we need to vote them out.


We are not a democracy! We are a representative republic. There's a difference. Read about it.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Anyone who's a law abiding citizen, yup. The problems occur when the criminals and the crazies are armed but the law abiding citizens aren't. The police don't and can't prevent crime. They can only deal with it after the fact. Who is going to protect the people?


I have never in 73 years been in a situation in which I wished I had a gun. In my opinion, if everyone carried a gun there would be more use of one. You know, like, I don't like what you said---bam! Or, don't look at me like that---bam! Or don't tell me what to do----bam. People with bad tempers could end arguments oh, so rapidly. There are plenty of people around with short fuses who I wouldn't want to see carrying a gun!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Isn't anyone outraged that BOTH sides are trying to dictate what we do and how we live? I hear a lot of people TALK about the problem, but I don't see anybody doing anything to restore our rights. Don't forget, it was the republicans who shoved the patriot act and the ndaa down our throats! Both sides are taking away our rights. And as I said before, in order to keep the rights we want, we have to fight for the ones we don't want. As goes one, so goes the other.


Rules and laws are regulatory. I don't look at them as taking away my rights, they're in place so we can exist as an orderly society.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I have never in 73 years been in a situation in which I wished I had a gun. In my opinion, if everyone carried a gun there would be more use of one. You know, like, I don't like what you said---bam! Or, don't look at me like that---bam! Or don't tell me what to do----bam. People with bad tempers could end arguments oh, so rapidly. There are plenty of people around with short fuses who I wouldn't want to see carrying a gun!


I haven't been in a situation where I wished I had a gun either. But I bet if you asked any of the people who were victims of or witnesses to these mass shootings, they would probably answer differently. I am not afraid of law abiding citizens.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Rules and laws are regulatory. I don't look at them as taking away my rights, they're in place so we can exist as an orderly society.


Rules and laws are made to govern behavior in a civilized society. NOT to take away our constitutional rights.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I haven't been in a situation where I wished I had a gun either. But I bet if you asked any of the people who were victims of or witnesses to these mass shootings, they would probably answer differently. I am not afraid of law abiding citizens.


You mean you can't think of anyone you'd rather not see with a gun? Think hard.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Rules and laws are made to govern behavior in a civilized society. NOT to take away our constitutional rights.


But many of the things another poster listed were things that I think of as regulations, not an elimination of rights.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry, Knitter, I must leave. Latergator.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Our feelings are similar in some ways. I live in a part of the country where LOTS of people own and even carry guns. I've never considered carrying a gun for the same reasons as you. Guns actually scare me. We've never owned guns. I held one, once. And fired it 2 or 3 times. It scared the crap out of me. I don't want one. But I will never give up my right to have one! I like the thought that some law abiding gun owner might protect me in a time of need. But alas, all of the mass shootings have taken place in "gun free zones".
> 
> Limiting or banning guns won't stop shooters either. In my daughter's senior year of high school, a kid whose dad was a police officer, brought his dad's service revolver to her school. He shot the principal and one of the asst principals. The asst principal died. Our school had an armed police officer. He hid under a desk in a nearby office, while the shooting occurred. In this case, the gun belonged to a police officer. This kid had a history of getting into trouble. His mother had just sent him off to live with his father. He had gotten suspended from school and took revenge. We need to look at the real problem. Law abiding gin owners are not the problem. Perhaps, contributory to the problem is how the media turns these events into a circus. The killer lives in infamy. The news should be reported without giving the killers name and it shouldn't be turned into a media event. It just gives other crazy people ideas. Lest you not believe my story here is a link to ABC newscoverage. http://abcnews.go.com/US/son-omaha-detective-shoots-school-officials-kills/story?id=12549391
> 
> And finally, I think that if everyone were armed, gun crimes would go down. FBI statistics actually show that to be true. In cities that allow concealed carry, gun crimes have dropped drastically. Cities like Chicago, which has the strictest gun laws, have the highest amount of gun crimes. The criminals are armed, and law abiding citizens are not.


Have you ever looked at official gun-crime statistics? I did, not long ago, and found that all that stuff about Chicago was UNTRUE. And learned other interesting things, too.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Isn't anyone outraged that BOTH sides are trying to dictate what we do and how we live? I hear a lot of people TALK about the problem, but I don't see anybody doing anything to restore our rights. Don't forget, it was the republicans who shoved the patriot act and the ndaa down our throats! Both sides are taking away our rights. And as I said before, in order to keep the rights we want, we have to fight for the ones we don't want. As goes one, so goes the other.


Sorry, but that's silly. Some rights are necessary for individuals to remain free; others less so. You have to pick your battles. If you spread yourself all over, you'll lose on all fronts.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> You mean you can't think of anyone you'd rather not see with a gun? Think hard.


If they abide with the law, I have no right to infringe upon them, my opinion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I have never in 73 years been in a situation in which I wished I had a gun. In my opinion, if everyone carried a gun there would be more use of one. You know, like, I don't like what you said---bam! Or, don't look at me like that---bam! Or don't tell me what to do----bam. People with bad tempers could end arguments oh, so rapidly. There are plenty of people around with short fuses who I wouldn't want to see carrying a gun!


Those things have already happened, many of them this year. Man kills woman who rings his doorbell when her car broke down and she had no working phone. Man hears loud music coming from car, shoots into it, kills teenager. Ex-sheriff in movie theater objects to another patron texting on phone, shoots and kills the other patron, before the movie has even started. These were supposedly law-abiding people. If they hadn't had guns, the people they killed would still be alive.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> But many of the things another poster listed were things that I think of as regulations, not an elimination of rights.


Our founding fathers advocated protecting the rights of the individual. Regulations are most often used for the control of a populace. We weren't meant to be controlled. We were meant to be free.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I haven't been in a situation where I wished I had a gun either. But I bet if you asked any of the people who were victims of or witnesses to these mass shootings, they would probably answer differently. I am not afraid of law abiding citizens.


In fact, here again you're wrong. When Gabby Gifford was shot, one person admitted that he pulled out his gun and almost shot the person who was holding a gun, who happened to be the woman who grabbed it away from the original shooter. Another person at the movie theater shooting said he would have shot but then realized what would have happened to people caught in the crossfire.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Sorry, Knitter, I must leave. Latergator.


Later! Its been good talking with you.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Sorry, but that's silly. Some rights are necessary for individuals to remain free; others less so. You have to pick your battles. If you spread yourself all over, you'll lose on all fronts.


If we don't stand up for every right, we will lose them all. Its already happening.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> In fact, here again you're wrong. When Gabby Gifford was shot, one person admitted that he pulled out his gun and almost shot the person who was holding a gun, who happened to be the woman who grabbed it away from the original shooter. Another person at the movie theater shooting said he would have shot but then realized what would have happened to people caught in the crossfire.


I guess it just goes to show that we are all individuals. As some would react and stop the shootings, others would not. If I'm ever in that situation, I hope that someone would stop it.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

The FULL text of the second amendment is:

_A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed._

See, the "well regulated Militia" part is always ignored. States were to have organized militias of their own. I don't see all these people who declare that they can have as many guns of every sort belonging to any such "well regulated militia."


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

I'd like to see what would happen if it was a bunch of black people wandering around carrying guns...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> I stated earlier that I fear people around me with guns much more than terrorists and surely enough another shooting. Latest I heard 1 Shooter (in custody), one dead and two wounded. Time for a class-action suite against the NRA. Wonder when businesses wake up and fight the NRA. Who would want to go to any Mall or Event with everyone carrying a gun? That makes Gun Sellers rich and drive others out of business.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> I'd like to see what would happen if it was a bunch of black people wandering around carrying guns...


Nebraska claims she sees no color differences among people.

Did you see that video from the Daily Show, with a white man and a black man discussing open carry?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If my son weren't so busy with "good clean fun," maybe I'd have grandchildren by now.
> 
> Seriously, I've met many of his friends. We have a bunch of them to dinner a few times a year, and by a bunch I mean about a dozen at a time. They're bright, attractive, educated, presentable, doing interesting work, and very single. Any of our (DH and mine) friends who meet them wonder why they're still single. The Nazis needn't have bothered to wipe out the Jews; after the next generation, there simply won't be any more. :roll:
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: Could these wonderful human beings be construed as nerds perhaps? Maybe next dinner party could include some over achieving females?

The information gathering is out of control.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Ack???!!!!



Poor Purl said:


> WED JUN 04, 2014 AT 10:15 AM PDT
> IU ... WTF, Ohio?
> byJoan McCarter
> 
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> No other amendment to the Constitution guarantees us *unlimited* freedom: freedom of speech doesn't extend to crying Fire in a theater, and freedom of assembly apparently doesn't extend to protesters. The right to trial doesn't extend to people held in Guantanamo nor, in the eyes of some, to Bowe Bergdahl.
> 
> Why would it be removing our freedoms if guns (like cars) had to be registered; in fact, why not make gun owners give reasons for needing guns?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I am sorry to say you make no sense to me. We don't share worries.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> You make my point about the disintegration of our rights. The constitution puts no limits on our rights. The supreme court is limiting our rights. And while you may agree with one ruling or another, the supreme court has proven its political biases over and over. The supreme court was only intended to interpret the law, not to legislate from the bench. If we allow the supreme court, congress or the president to limit our rights, we will soon have no rights at all. Having rights makes a people difficult to control. And that is what both parties are doing. They are putting limits on our rights, to control us. A free people need not give reasons for anything they choose to do. They are free!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> KFN, I'm sorry that I don't have sources available--I read a lot. But if I recall correctly, Adam Lanza refused to take his meds, and I don't remember if the director's son was on meds or not--I'd say not. Millions of people take SSRI's daily and because of the meds, they can function. Like another poster wrote, it's when people go off their meds without medical advice that they get dangerous, both to themselves and other people. It really made me furious to hear that a local pastor advised women suffering from postpartum depression that they didn't need meds, just Jesus. That's how Andrea Yates snapped.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But the land of the loopholes still permits sick people to but and use weapons on their neighbors.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If you think that the republicans shouldn't limit our rights, then don't you think that the democrats shouldn't either? We shouldn't allow just the side we agree with, to limit our rights. Because that allows both sides the ability to end our rights. Neither party should have that power.


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## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Nebraska claims she sees no color differences among people.
> 
> Did you see that video from the Daily Show, with a white man and a black man discussing open carry?
> 
> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts


ROFLMAO!!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> The FULL text of the second amendment is:
> 
> _A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed._
> 
> See, the "well regulated Militia" part is always ignored. States were to have organized militias of their own. I don't see all these people who declare that they can have as many guns of every sort belonging to any such "well regulated militia."


I have not ignored any part of the second amendment. Our founding fathers felt that it was important to include the statement that a well regulated militia was important to the security of a free state. Therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. How can a people form a well regulated militia if they can't get arms? Many states, including Nebraska have militias that are under orders from their governors. People must have a gun to be part of the militia, just as it was during the days of our founding fathers. Keep in mind that the second amendment doesn't say that only members of the militia can have guns. It says " the rights of the people". The people means everyone.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> What is your opinion of Giuliani and how he governed NYC as Mayor?


I was living in the 'burbs of NYC during his reign so I did not pay much attention to him. Sorry. Maybe Purl will have a better comment.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> I'd like to see what would happen if it was a bunch of black people wandering around carrying guns...


Here in Omaha, they are all of the time.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Nebraska claims she sees no color differences among people.
> 
> Did you see that video from the Daily Show, with a white man and a black man discussing open carry?
> 
> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts


I never said that I SEE no differences. Don't put words in my mouth. I SAID that the black people that I know, want to be treated just like everyone else.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I am sorry to say you make no sense to me. We don't share worries.


Does that mean that you think all of the supreme court judges are fair and unbiased? Even those on the right?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> But the land of the loopholes still permits sick people to but and use weapons on their neighbors.


Huh?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If they abide with the law, I have no right to infringe upon them, my opinion.


She didn't ask whether you _would_ take away anyone's gun but whether there was anyone you'd rather not see with a gun. Very different question.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I guess it just goes to show that we are all individuals. As some would react and stop the shootings, others would not. If I'm ever in that situation, I hope that someone would stop it.


You didn't read what I wrote. The one person who thought of stopping the Gabby Gifford shooter would have killed the wrong person, the woman who did stop the shooter.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> ROFLMAO!!!


I guess I don't find discrimination good joke material. Laughing at it gives it a form of acceptance. I know that people are not treated equally but I believe that they should be.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: Could these wonderful human beings be construed as nerds perhaps? Maybe next dinner party could include some over achieving females?
> 
> The information gathering is out of control.


I've always invited women with my son's friends, usually more women than men. They're all over-achieving. Only some of the men are nerds; but all are great conversationalists. The meals are a lot of fun. Then they walk home in a crowd, rarely a couple at a time.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> I was living in the 'burbs of NYC during his reign so I did not pay much attention to him. Sorry. Maybe Purl will have a better comment.


Please don't offer me up to give her an answer. I have my opinion, but that's not her business, any more than my name was.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I guess I don't find discrimination good joke material. Laughing at it gives it a form of acceptance. I know that people are not treated equally but I believe that they should be.


Unfortunately, we're not in the land of Should Be but the land of What Is. In fact, I think NOT laughing at racism makes it too serious and therefore more acceptable.

Can I have a show of hands: Who here believes that people should not be treated equally?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Purl the link you posted re John Stewart was hilarious!!
Thanks for sharing that. I needed a good laugh today!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> I was living in the 'burbs of NYC during his reign so I did not pay much attention to him. Sorry. Maybe Purl will have a better comment.


OK, then. I have an opinion on him even though I've never lived in NYC or NY state (and on Bloomberg and many others, too). I don't desire to hear Purl's opinion. I sought yours.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Purl the link you posted re John Stewart was hilarious!!
> Thanks for sharing that. I needed a good laugh today!


Good!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I have not ignored any part of the second amendment. Our founding fathers felt that it was important to include the statement that a well regulated militia was important to the security of a free state. Therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. How can a people form a well regulated militia if they can't get arms? Many states, including Nebraska have militias that are under orders from their governors. People must have a gun to be part of the militia, just as it was during the days of our founding fathers. Keep in mind that the second amendment doesn't say that only members of the militia can have guns. It says " the rights of the people". The people means everyone.


I find it puzzling that you know the exact and only meaning of the 2nd Amendment, when lawyers and judges have argued over it since it was passed. Jeffrey Toobin, a constitutional lawyer, wrote a piece a couple of years ago called So You Think You Know the Second Amendment? (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/12/jeffrey-toobin-second-amendment.html):


> For more than a hundred years, the answer was clear, even if the words of the amendment itself were not. The text of the amendment is divided into two clauses and is, as a whole, ungrammatical: A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. The courts had found that the first part, the militia clause, trumped the second part, the bear arms clause. In other words, according to the Supreme Court, and the lower courts as well, the amendment conferred on state militias a right to bear armsbut did not give individuals a right to own or carry a weapon.


The NRA went along with this until a change in leadership, and the presidency of Reagan, changed things.

Instead of trying to sum things up, I'll post the rest; Toobin writes much better than I do.



> The new group pushed for a novel interpretation of the Second Amendment, one that gave individuals, not just militias, the right to bear arms. It was an uphill struggle. At first, their views were widely scorned. Chief Justice Warren E. Burger, who was no liberal, mocked the individual-rights theory of the amendment as a fraud.
> 
> But the N.R.A. kept pushingand theres a lesson here. Conservatives often embrace originalism, the idea that the meaning of the Constitution was fixed when it was ratified, in 1787. They mock the so-called liberal idea of a living constitution, whose meaning changes with the values of the country at large. But there is no better example of the living Constitution than the conservative re-casting of the Second Amendment in the last few decades of the twentieth century. (Reva Siegel, of Yale Law School, elaborates on this point in a brilliant article, http://www.law.yale.edu/documents/pdf/Faculty/Siegel_Heller-HLRev.pdf .)
> 
> ...


I'm glad that you know the law so well that you override a hundred years of scholarship.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I guess I don't find discrimination good joke material. Laughing at it gives it a form of acceptance. I know that people are not treated equally but I believe that they should be.


It's funny because it's the truth. If black people started walking the streets or going into businesses with long guns or wearing guns clipped to their belts, you can bet there would be an uproar.

As it is, I will lay odds that pretty soon there will be a sad collision between Stand Your Ground and open carry. Someone will feel threatened by a bozo with a need to brandish a weapon with inevitable consequences.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm glad that you know the law so well that you override a hundred years of scholarship.


I think we run into problems when we try to interpret something that clearly means what it says.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

sumpleby said:


> It's funny because it's the truth. If black people started walking the streets or going into businesses with long guns or wearing guns clipped to their belts, you can bet there would be an uproar.
> 
> As it is, I will lay odds that pretty soon there will be a sad collision between Stand Your Ground and open carry. Someone will feel threatened by a bozo with a need to brandish a weapon with inevitable consequences.


In my opinion, it is a sad truth, not a funny one.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Humor points out the differences quite well.



Poor Purl said:


> Nebraska claims she sees no color differences among people.
> 
> Did you see that video from the Daily Show, with a white man and a black man discussing open carry?
> 
> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In my opinion, it is a sad truth, not a funny one.


KFB, I watched the video and found it quite funny. The black man in the clip was quite the comedian.
In the real world, no, it wouldn't be funny.
Florida's "Stand Your Ground Law" frightens me. 
"he looked at me funny, so I killed him."


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Does that mean that you think all of the supreme court judges are fair and unbiased? Even those on the right?


Huh? You got something mixed up.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Too late to edit. Sorry.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Huh?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I should have figured you'd be miles ahead of me. What do these people see in their lives 5/10 years from now? The world has changed. Maybe we just lost track of what people want. Family? Children? Companionship? Quiet? Spontaneous vacations? Pets you pick? No pets to tie you down?

I feel very fortunate. I have just what I always wished. I wish the very same for your son and his friends. And I'm very glad to have met you.



Poor Purl said:


> I've always invited women with my son's friends, usually more women than men. They're all over-achieving. Only some of the men are nerds; but all are great conversationalists. The meals are a lot of fun. Then they walk home in a crowd, rarely a couple at a time.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good comment, dear friend.



Poor Purl said:


> Please don't offer me up to give her an answer. I have my opinion, but that's not her business, any more than my name was.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think we run into problems when we try to interpret something that clearly means what it says.


 :XD: ROFL


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think we run into problems when we try to interpret something that clearly means what it says.


No, I think we run into problems when we interpret something from our own POV rather than that of the framers. None of the lawyers, judges, scholars thought it clearly meant what you think it meant.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> KFB, I watched the video and found it quite funny. The black man in the clip was quite the comedian.
> In the real world, no, it wouldn't be funny.
> Florida's "Stand Your Ground Law" frightens me.
> "he looked at me funny, so I killed him."


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I should have figured you'd be miles ahead of me. What do these people see in their lives 5/10 years from now? The world has changed. Maybe we just lost track of what people want. Family? Children? Companionship? Quiet? Spontaneous vacations? Pets you pick? No pets to tie you down?
> 
> I feel very fortunate. I have just what I always wished. I wish the very same for your son and his friends. And I'm very glad to have met you.


Thank you. I wish I had some of the answers. I'm grateful that I have people like you to ask the questions.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> :XD: ROFL


Far better answer than my wordy one.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

So many of you have said so many interesting things, and I wish I had the energy to remark on quite a lot of what I've read here today. but this MIB is one tired MIB. I'm going be an "early to bed and late to rise" MIB tonight. My best to everyone. See you all tomorrow.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> So many of you have said so many interesting things, and I wish I had the energy to remark on quite a lot of what I've read here today. but this MIB is one tired MIB. I'm going be an "early to bed and late to rise" MIB tonight. My best to everyone. See you all tomorrow.


Enjoy your rest, sleep in, and we'll catch you later.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Please don't offer me up to give her an answer. I have my opinion, but that's not her business, any more than my name was.


Sorry. I forgot about your rift. Won't happen again if I can remember.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> OK, then. I have an opinion on him even though I've never lived in NYC or NY state (and on Bloomberg and many others, too). I don't desire to hear Purl's opinion. I sought yours.


I was focused on my neighborhood and I stopped paying attention to NYC in those days. I did have a friend who did not like him and would mention him occasionally. He supposedly stopped crime here so that was good. But I heard that the crime rate in urban areas was dropping in other places also. I guess he did well enough during 9/11. He had a head of Police that I liked but he turned into a crook. Not super crazy about any politician. No matter what party, they are in debt to someone for making it in office and that can be a conflict of interest at the least.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Sorry. I forgot about your rift. Won't happen again if I can remember.


Don't worry. She's not interested in hearing the truth anyway, just another uninformed opinion, esp. if it agrees with hers. My opinion wouldn't be of any use.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Unfortunately, we're not in the land of Should Be but the land of What Is. In fact, I think NOT laughing at racism makes it too serious and therefore more acceptable.
> 
> Can I have a show of hands: Who here believes that people should not be treated equally?


Is this a trick question? I find myself unable to answer it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm glad that you know the law so well that you override a hundred years of scholarship.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: That's what happens when they finally get a Supreme Court ready to rule to their liking. (I'm not really laughing....more like crying.)


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Is this a trick question? I find myself unable to answer it.


Maybe. Nebraska sounded as though only she thought people should be treated equally, because she didn't think the Daily Show clip was funny. I just wanted to prove that even people who can laugh at the absurdity of racism want everyone to be treated equally.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

May no one be caught in the inevitable crossfire. Amen.



sumpleby said:


> It's funny because it's the truth. If black people started walking the streets or going into businesses with long guns or wearing guns clipped to their belts, you can bet there would be an uproar.
> 
> As it is, I will lay odds that pretty soon there will be a sad collision between Stand Your Ground and open carry. Someone will feel threatened by a bozo with a need to brandish a weapon with inevitable consequences.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You don't get it yet. "What it says" is difficult to interpret if anyone comes up with an alternate opinion. It's very common.

Ps. The history of this debate was not good for your side until it was finally ruled that individuals had the same right/duty as militia. Took hundreds of years.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think we run into problems when we try to interpret something that clearly means what it says.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sleep well. Tomorrow.



MaidInBedlam said:


> So many of you have said so many interesting things, and I wish I had the energy to remark on quite a lot of what I've read here today. but this MIB is one tired MIB. I'm going be an "early to bed and late to rise" MIB tonight. My best to everyone. See you all tomorrow.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Maybe. Nebraska sounded as though only she thought people should be treated equally, because she didn't think the Daily Show clip was funny. I just wanted to prove that even people who can laugh at the absurdity of racism want everyone to be treated equally.


I laughed at the clip. I do wish everyone to be treated equally and fairly. I don't think that's always true now. I'm not sure when it will really be true for all. But we keep trying.

Sorry duplicate. Seems to happen some, but not all times I edit.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> No, I think we run into problems when we interpret something from our own POV rather than that of the framers. None of the lawyers, judges, scholars thought it clearly meant what you think it meant.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Just a reminder for Lisa or any name she is currently using. What she is doing is illegal.
> 
> _525.080 Harassing communications.
> (1) A person is guilty of harassing communications when, with intent to intimidate,
> ...


And just a reminder that your post above is doing exactly what you warn others about. It is harrassing, it causes annoyance. Please practice what you preach.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you Eve.



EveMCooke said:


> And just a reminder that your post above is doing exactly what you warn others about. It is harrassing, it causes annoyance. Please practice what you preach.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> You don't get it yet. "What it says" is difficult to interpret if anyone comes up with an alternate opinion. It's very common.
> 
> Ps. The history of this debate was not good for your side until it was finally ruled that individuals had the same right/duty as militia. Took hundreds of years.


Yes, I get it. What I'm saying is that it doesn't need interpretation. It doesn't say that the rights of the militia shall not be infringed. It says the rights of the people shall not be infringed. We don't even have to wonder if they meant something else because if you read other things they wrote, they were all about the rights of the individual. They risked their lives creating a government of the people, by the people and for the people. They made sure that the government could never usurp those rights. Its absurd to try and say that they wanted the people's rights to be limited. The king of England was limiting their rights and that's what they fought and died for. If we ever had any questions about what they meant, all we need do is read the Declaration of Independence and the many other things they wrote. It is only when people have an agenda to fulfil , that anyone even questions what they wrote. We shouldn't even be entertaining the idea that they meant something other than what they said. You mark my words! The day is coming when we will have NO rights because we aren't willing to fight for them!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Just a reminder for Lisa or any name she is currently using. What she is doing is illegal.
> 
> _525.080 Harassing communications.
> (1) A person is guilty of harassing communications when, with intent to intimidate,
> ...


I am glad they covered telegrams in Point C. This seems like a Ky State Law. This should serve as a warning to "Whomever de Jour" to stay out of KY. ( just realized that KY is not exactly a good abbreviation for a state. Maybe KY is on (or in) a slippery slope with this law.)


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Non Political 

Hi everyone-- We are having a really good discussion on the workshop section about how to use color in your knitting and crochet projects. Even though I have postponed any new workshops, I have been asked to lead a workshop in discussion color in our projects. It is going so well - join us if you are interested- 

It is going so well. I would recommend that if you have a few minutes you check it out. Go to the workshop link below my post and scroll down to #59 Conversation about color -- from page one. If you are interested I would recommend you join in the questionnaire, and come back tomorrow to see how we differ and why.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> *Non Political*
> 
> Hi everyone-- We are having a really good discussion on the workshop section about how to use color in your knitting and crochet projects. Even though I have postponed any new workshops, I have been asked to lead a workshop in discussion color in our projects. It is going so well - join us if you are interested-
> 
> It is going so well. I would recommend that if you have a few minutes you check it out. Go to the workshop link below my post and scroll down to #59 Conversation about color -- from page one. If you are interested I would recommend you join in the questionnaire, and come back tomorrow to see how we differ and why.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Enjoy your rest, sleep in, and we'll catch you later.


Thanks, this morning's MIB actually has a functional brain, but isn't going to wear it out going back to yesterday's discussions, interesting as they were. Now that my cat is home and settled in, I have my work cut out for me at home. I don't even need a to do list for household chores.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Does anyone Skype or have a webcam? I had a Friday night face to face visit from one of us from the other side. She is an incredible craftsperson and her home was filled with so many of her cross-stitches and other great antiques. She has two stash rooms - I never fully understood the notion of stash until I saw hers. Her first response upon seeing my face online was "we look the same". Of course we do, just a few ideological differences. What fun that was. I squealed a lot.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Just a reminder for Lisa or any name she is currently using. What she is doing is illegal.
> 
> _525.080 Harassing communications.
> (1) A person is guilty of harassing communications when, with intent to intimidate,
> ...


Whatever username Lisa goes by, KP has its rules and all you need to do is report an issue to Admin. Yes, Lisa pops up over and over again, so, like a gardener, you have to keep up with whatever weeding you feel is necessary. You have a lot of friends on KP, and they will give you lots of moral support.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

damemary said:


> You don't get it yet. "What it says" is difficult to interpret if anyone comes up with an alternate opinion. It's very common.
> 
> Ps. The history of this debate was not good for your side until it was finally ruled that individuals had the same right/duty as militia. Took hundreds of years.


Concerning the phrase A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, in the Second Amendment, the Declaration provides some excellent reasons why it continues to be mandatory that the American people should have the right to keep and bear arms.

Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

This fromWikipedia gives us some further understanding about this part of the Second Amendment: 
The Second Amendment was based partially on the right to keep and bear arms in English common-law and was influenced by the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Sir William Blackstone described this right as an auxiliary right, supporting the natural rights of self-defense, resistance to oppression, and the civic duty to act in concert in defense of the state

Entirely IMO, the Second Amendment is the weakest link in the chain of the Bill of Rights, especially considering the problems we have with gun violence in this country. While it is reasonable to work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and mentally ill people who might commit acts of gun violence as we have already seen, any modification to the Second Amendment will open the door to the possibility that any or all of the rights we are guaranteed cold be modified or eliminated altogether. As a result, I support the Second Amendment in spite of my personal ideals of pacifism and that I am a liberal who might automatically believe the Second Amendment should be modified or eliminated from the Constitution.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Just a reminder for Lisa or any name she is currently using. What she is doing is illegal.
> 
> _525.080 Harassing communications.
> (1) A person is guilty of harassing communications when, with intent to intimidate,
> ...


Kentucky law? Is she in Kentucky? Are you in Kentucky?

And you could be accused of sending communications meant to intimidate, harass, annoy, or alarm when you accuse people of murder or, worse, send pictures of the products of miscarriage.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, I get it. What I'm saying is that it doesn't need interpretation. It doesn't say that the rights of the militia shall not be infringed. It says the rights of the people shall not be infringed. We don't even have to wonder if they meant something else because if you read other things they wrote, they were all about the rights of the individual. They risked their lives creating a government of the people, by the people and for the people. They made sure that the government could never usurp those rights. Its absurd to try and say that they wanted the people's rights to be limited. The king of England was limiting their rights and that's what they fought and died for. If we ever had any questions about what they meant, all we need do is read the Declaration of Independence and the many other things they wrote. It is only when people have an agenda to fulfil , that anyone even questions what they wrote. We shouldn't even be entertaining the idea that they meant something other than what they said. You mark my words! The day is coming when we will have NO rights because we aren't willing to fight for them!


So far, every time I've marked your words, they've had some serious flaw in them.

As to the 2nd Amendment, it is definitely not clear. If it were, it would say something like The rights of *persons* to keep and bear arms .... It would not have a reference to a militia, and more than that it would not say "the people."

An arsenal in an armory could be "the people's" arms. The entire arms supply of a state's National Guard is "the people's" arms, but it doesn't belong to any individual persons, and you'd probably be guilty of a crime if you went into the Nebraska arsenal and helped yourself to a few guns.

It's inconceivable that for nearly 200 years (literally, 1789-198?) it was interpreted one way and suddenly it came to mean something entirely different. *Gun manufacturers, supported by the NRA, simply want more people to buy their products, *and they've succeeded, with the help of some justices who call themselves "conservative" but are really interested in rewriting the entire body of settled law.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Thanks, this morning's MIB actually has a functional brain, but isn't going to wear it out going back to yesterday's discussions, interesting as they were. Now that my cat is home and settled in, I have my work cut out for me at home. I don't even need a to do list for household chores.


You just made me think of the song from _A Funny Thing Happened..._. You know the one: "Everybody ought to have a Maid, Everybody ought to have a working girl...."


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If they abide with the law, I have no right to infringe upon them, my opinion.


Knitter from Nebraska
Look at all the Prisoners who were law abiding Citizens until.............. Please, make an effort to get into the real world.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good point. Fifty states plus DC and Puerto Rico all united states with different opinions. KIN you're still missing the point. Not everyone thinks the same as you do. End of discussion for me.



SQM said:


> I am glad they covered telegrams in Point C. This seems like a Ky State Law. This should serve as a warning to "Whomever de Jour" to stay out of KY. ( just realized that KY is not exactly a good abbreviation for a state. Maybe KY is on (or in) a slippery slope with this law.)


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Fascinating topic that gets the creative juices flowing. Grab pen & paper and see you there.



Designer1234 said:


> Non Political
> 
> Hi everyone-- We are having a really good discussion on the workshop section about how to use color in your knitting and crochet projects. Even though I have postponed any new workshops, I have been asked to lead a workshop in discussion color in our projects. It is going so well - join us if you are interested-
> 
> It is going so well. I would recommend that if you have a few minutes you check it out. Go to the workshop link below my post and scroll down to #59 Conversation about color -- from page one. If you are interested I would recommend you join in the questionnaire, and come back tomorrow to see how we differ and why.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

By Jove You've got it!



Poor Purl said:


> Kentucky law? Is she in Kentucky? Are you in Kentucky?
> 
> And you could be accused of sending communications meant to intimidate, harass, annoy, or alarm when you accuse people of murder or, worse, send pictures of the products of miscarriage.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So far, every time I've marked your words, they've had some serious flaw in them.
> 
> As to the 2nd Amendment, it is definitely not clear. If it were, it would say something like The rights of *persons* to keep and bear arms .... It would not have a reference to a militia, and more than that it would not say "the people."
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Agreed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Look at all the Prisoners who were law abiding Citizens until.............. Please, make an effort to get into the real world.


<<<whispering....or be quiet and listen.>>>>


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Peacegoddess, your list of statistics about beliefs surrounding rape sickens me as I suspect it will everyone who reads it. We learn what right behavior is starting from the day we're born, even though we don't know it. The attidudes noted in the survey rest on the foundation of what children learn in their formative years, IMO. *I have no idea how to get the majority of parents to teach their children of both sexes to respect each other and themselves. Respect of both kinds makes it a lot harder to do things that can't possibly be considered respectable.*Where to we go from here?


I realize by now many of you have gone on to other topics, but as I am only here occasionally I thought I would respond to this and other comments on rape stats etc.

I believe that our children are increasingly influenced by outside sources that may or may not be positive and supportive of the lessons and values we as parents and influential adults impart. It is the negative influences that create an atmosphere of rape and denigration of girls and women and it is just such influences that we as a society need to question and provide positive counter influence.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Did you notice the words _...with no purpose of legitimate communication_?
> 
> I am communicating the negative side of abortion. If the truth is annoying, so be it. This thread was started about abortion. So anything concerning abortion belongs on this thread.


I believe that Lisa also has a communicative purpose, only you don't like hers.

Besides, other than for people in Kentucky, what relevance does this law have?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Does the NRA sell guns? They do sell T-shirts, mugs, belt buckles, etc.
> 
> Do you know how many lives have been saved because someone was carrying a gun? You will never know because the main stream media will not report it. They are anti-gun. You may find a few on the internet but only on conservative websites. But you wouldn't believe them anyway.


The NRA doesn't have to sell guns to make money from the gun mfrs. It only has to encourage the purchase of guns, which it does by its slogans, speeches, and its "T-shirts, mugs, belt buckles, etc."

Do you know how many lives could have been saved had people gone through background checks before being allowed to own guns? Nobody does, because there's a law to prevent such discussion, a law promulgated by the NRA.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Just hopping in to ask if someone here is from Kentucky?

I love KY...got a dozen or so cousins in "Louahville"...its a great place to live.

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> So far, every time I've marked your words, they've had some serious flaw in them.
> 
> As to the 2nd Amendment, it is definitely not clear. If it were, it would say something like The rights of *persons* to keep and bear arms .... It would not have a reference to a militia, and more than that it would not say "the people."
> 
> ...


And none of those arms will be belong to the people if military law were to be declared, not to mention that arms belonging to the people would be confiscated.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You just made me think of the song from _A Funny Thing Happened..._. You know the one: "Everybody ought to have a Maid, Everybody ought to have a working girl...."


Doesn't ring a bell. I'll have to look for it. I am wishing this was the world in the Harry Potter books and I could keep house like Mrs. Weasley.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> I realize by now many of you have gone on to other topics, but as I am only here occasionally I thought I would respond to this and other comments on rape stats etc.
> 
> I believe that our children are increasingly influenced by outside sources that may or may not be positive and supportive of the lessons and values we as parents and influential adults impart. It is the negative influences that create an atmosphere of rape and denigration of girls and women and it is just such influences that we as a society need to question and provide positive counter influence.


Along with parents teaching their children to respect themselves and others, they need to protect their children from the many negative influences outside their front door. It seems to me all too few parents do this. At 65, it looks like children are raised in a completely different way than I and my friends were. My friends and I had good parents, who protected us from inappropriate influences and raised us in a very sheltered environment. I know this wasn't the case for all baby-boomers, maybe not even the majority of my generation, so I count myself very fortunate to have been raised as I was.

The humongous changes in technology make the world a lot different for children who are growing up in it. If I had children in these days I would home school them, and that wouldn't be the kind of education fundamentalist Christians give their children. It'd be better than any public or private school education available.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Just a reminder for Lisa or any name she is currently using. What she is doing is illegal.
> 
> _525.080 Harassing communications.
> (1) A person is guilty of harassing communications when, with intent to intimidate,
> ...


Uff-ta. By this definition we'd all be law-breakers.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.


Wow! Sounds like a great school. What city is it in?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Wow! Sounds like a great school. What city is it in?


Read about your play-writing workshop. What an honor for you to be accepted!
If the play is produced and if you have a grandma role, I'd be happy to fly to NY to try out.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.[/
> 
> In my experience, this simply isn't true.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.


what school are you using as an example for this comment? <y experience with young children I know who attend public school are learning to read by 1st grade, doing math, science, social studies, and if there is enough money having great art projects.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

alcameron said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.[/
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.
> ...


But why would your experience count for more than the guesses and made-up stories of far-right websites?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Wow! Sounds like a great school. What city is it in?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Doesn't ring a bell. I'll have to look for it. I am wishing this was the world in the Harry Potter books and I could keep house like Mrs. Weasley.


Have you never seen A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum? A history-minded person like you needs this episode of Roman history.

The song's lyrics:

[SENEX]
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Everybody ought to have a working girl,
A loyal girl, a lurking girl
To putter around the house.
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Everybody ought to have a menial
Consistently congenial
And quieter than a mouse.

Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delicious,
Tidying up the dishes,
Neat as a pin.
Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delightful,
Sweeping out,
Sleeping in.

Everybody ought to have a maid,
Someone who you hire when you're short of help
To offer you the sort of help
You never get from a spouse:

Fluttering up the stairway,
Shuttering up the windows,
Cluttering up the bedroom,
Buttering up the master,
Puttering all around the house!

Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delicious,
Tidying up the dishes,
Neat as a pin.
Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delightful,
Sweeping out,
Sleeping in.

Everybody ought to have a maid,
Someone who in fetching you your slipper will
Be winsome as a whipporwill
And graceful as a grouse:

Skittering down the hallway,
Flittering through the parlor,
Tittering in the pantry,
Littering up the bedroom--

[SENEX & PSEUDOLUS]
Twittering all around the house!

[HYSTERIUM]
A maid?

[SENEX]
A maid.

[PSEUDOLUS]
A maid.

[ALL]
A maid!
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Everybody ought to have a serving-girl,
A loyal and unswerving girl,
To putter around the house.
Oh, oh,

[HYSTERIUM]
Think of her at the dustbin,
'Specially when she's just been
Traipsing about.

[ALL]
Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delightful,

[HYSTERIUM]
Living in,

[SENEX]
Giving out.

[ALL]
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Daintily collecting bits of paper n' strings,
Appealing in her apron strings
And graceful as a grouse.

[HYSTERIUM]
Pattering through the attic,

[SENEX]
Chattering in the cellar,

[PSEUDOLUS]
Clattering in the kitchen,

[SENEX]
Flattering in the bedroom,

[ALL]
Puttering all around the house!
The house!
The house!

[LYCUS]
A maid?

[HYSTERIUM]
A maid.

[PSEUDOLUS]
A maid.

[SENEX]
A maid!

[ALL]
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Someone who's efficient and reliable,
Obedient and pliable,
And quieter than a mouse!
Oh, oh, wouldn't she be so nimble,
Fiddling with her thimble,
Mending her gown.
Oh, oh, wouldn't she be delightful,

[LYCUS]
Cleaning up,

[SENEX]
Leaning down.

[ALL]
Everybody ought to have a maid,
Someone who'll be busy as a bumblebee
And even if you grumble, be
As graceful as a grouse.

[LYCUS]
Wriggling in the anteroom,

[HYSTERIUM]
Jiggling in the dining room,

[PSEUDOLUS]
Giggling in the living room,

[SENEX]
Wiggling in the other rooms,

[ALL]
Puttering all around the house!
The house!
The house!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> If it were true then I am so glad I live in Australia.
> 
> My three children attended public schools, the two eldest both have their Master Degree. The youngest has problems due to his birth trauma and did not attend uni. My three eldest grand daughters all attended public school and gained their uni degree. One is a town planner, one a teacher and the third is a social worker. The middle girl, who is a primary school teacher, was recently invited to spent a year in America in order to explain and implement her early childhood ideas and programmes. My two grandsons attend a public school and they have a very rich and varied educational curriculum. The both study music, different instruments and have been on music camps to New Zealand and Tasmania with the school. They both study art. They also have a variety of sports from which they can choose. They also have a variety of main stream subjects from which to choose. One is studying science subjects whilst the other is more focused on history. They also choose the maths stream they wish to pursue. All these subjects could not be taught by just the parents at home. My daughter, their mother, is a senior lecturer in nursing at TAFE and would have to give up her profession if they were home schooled. She is not in favour of home schooling, she says she finds that children who have been home schooled have not received a fully rounded education, they lack experience in many fields and knowledge of many subjects. She also finds them less able to discuss a topic and listen to other student's points of view in a tutorial situation. It may be different in America, but public school education in Australia is first rate. My youngest granddaughter attends Perth College, a prestigious girls school here in Perth, with fees in prep school of $10,000 a year, but I think that is more a snob thing on the part of my daughter in law. My great grandson attends Guildford Grammar School, the boys equivalent of Perth College. Noah's father attended Guildford Grammar so he is sending the boys there. Unfortunately, we do not think the youngest will be able to attend because of his Stickler's syndrome. Guildford Grammar is very sports minded, and poor little Seb has -8 vision, so would be at a disadvantage on the sports field.


And I'm willing to bet they don't have to repay student loans in the high five- to-six-figure range.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Read about your play-writing workshop. What an honor for you to be accepted!
> If the play is produced and if you have a grandma role, I'd be happy to fly to NY to try out.


Thanks but give me a break. You as my grandma????? Much too young, Childe, much too young. I hope the program will be fun. Just learned that it is run by the same theatre group that put on Rent and developed the playwright who died young right before it was staged. Don't think I will make the big time but it will keep me out of trouble in July.

Just got my first cashmere to make my first ever cashmere sweater. Got it in turquoise - my favorite color. Simple crew neck pattern with a bit of shape to the front and back. The LYS won't let you leave without swatching so swatch I did. Under her watchful and beady eyes, I made the perfect swatch which she says she rarely sees. She-it! What else could I do under such pressure?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Mine either.



alcameron said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.[/
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> what school are you using as an example for this comment? <y experience with young children I know who attend public school are learning to read by 1st grade, doing math, science, social studies, and if there is enough money having great art projects.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A fine family Eve, and I appreciate your perspective on public school. Thank you.



EveMCooke said:


> If it were true then I am so glad I live in Australia.
> 
> My three children attended public schools, the two eldest both have their Master Degree. The youngest has problems due to his birth trauma and did not attend uni. My three eldest grand daughters all attended public school and gained their uni degree. One is a town planner, one a teacher and the third is a social worker. The middle girl, who is a primary school teacher, was recently invited to spent a year in America in order to explain and implement her early childhood ideas and programmes. My two grandsons attend a public school and they have a very rich and varied educational curriculum. The both study music, different instruments and have been on music camps to New Zealand and Tasmania with the school. They both study art. They also have a variety of sports from which they can choose. They also have a variety of main stream subjects from which to choose. One is studying science subjects whilst the other is more focused on history. They also choose the maths stream they wish to pursue. All these subjects could not be taught by just the parents at home. My daughter, their mother, is a senior lecturer in nursing at TAFE and would have to give up her profession if they were home schooled. She is not in favour of home schooling, she says she finds that children who have been home schooled have not received a fully rounded education, they lack experience in many fields and knowledge of many subjects. She also finds them less able to discuss a topic and listen to other student's points of view in a tutorial situation. It may be different in America, but public school education in Australia is first rate. My youngest granddaughter attends Perth College, a prestigious girls school here in Perth, with fees in prep school of $10,000 a year, but I think that is more a snob thing on the part of my daughter in law. My great grandson attends Guildford Grammar School, the boys equivalent of Perth College. Noah's father attended Guildford Grammar so he is sending the boys there. Unfortunately, we do not think the youngest will be able to attend because of his Stickler's syndrome. Guildford Grammar is very sports minded, and poor little Seb has -8 vision, so would be at a disadvantage on the sports field.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarcasm alert!



Poor Purl said:


> But why would your experience count for more than the guesses and made-up stories of far-right websites?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

That's my Pervy Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> Have you never seen A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum? A history-minded person like you needs this episode of Roman history.
> 
> The song's lyrics:
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And I'm willing to bet they don't have to repay student loans in the high five- to-six-figure range.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And I'm willing to bet they don't have to repay student loans in the high five- to-six-figure range.


Only for uni studies, their HECs. If Tony Rabbit and Joe Hockey get their budget through the Senate and they deregulate uni fees, well our uni students will be paying those figures too. Pretty nasty when you remember most of those guys studied at uni after Labor abolished uni fees in the 1970s; their uni studies were free then.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> almost any public school. How many students are ready to enter college when they graduate from high school? But they do know how to put a condom on a banana. If they were ready there would be no need for remedial classes in College.


Mrs. Somma - hopefully you will be heartened to know that I support you on this one since the textbook I am writing is for developmental (remedial) college students, teaching strategies for college reading and writing. However the students that I imagine I am writing for are English as a second language people, and older people who may be going back to school after some years. But you may be right - there will most likely be American kids from various public schools thru-out the country that would use my text. I hope, once the text is out, that I can get some stats on the demographics. That would be interesting.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But why would your experience count for more than the guesses and made-up stories of far-right websites?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I am with you in getting children out of the public school system. Public schools are no longer putting emphasis on the 3 R's. It is now on gay rights, sex education, and being PC correct.


I don't think we share the same reasons for keeping children out of public and private schools, though I appreciate your response to what I said earlier. Human rights, including LGBT rights, sex education that provides facts about reproduction and respect for one's sexuality no matter what one's sexual preferences are, and so-called political correctness that helps us include as many people as possible in mainstream society are hugely important parts of anyone's education. Teaching these things in an age appropriate way is especially important.

None of the things mentioned above reject teach­ing the 3 Rs, teaching children how learn, and developing their intellects and talents. The world we live in is a pretty complicated place that needs people with complex educations. The thing I see as most beneficial in home schooling is that it is a way to protect children from that complex world and introduce them to it in the safest ways possible.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> If it were true then I am so glad I live in Australia.
> 
> My three children attended public schools, the two eldest both have their Master Degree. The youngest has problems due to his birth trauma and did not attend uni. My three eldest grand daughters all attended public school and gained their uni degree. One is a town planner, one a teacher and the third is a social worker. The middle girl, who is a primary school teacher, was recently invited to spent a year in America in order to explain and implement her early childhood ideas and programmes. My two grandsons attend a public school and they have a very rich and varied educational curriculum. The both study music, different instruments and have been on music camps to New Zealand and Tasmania with the school. They both study art. They also have a variety of sports from which they can choose. They also have a variety of main stream subjects from which to choose. One is studying science subjects whilst the other is more focused on history. They also choose the maths stream they wish to pursue. All these subjects could not be taught by just the parents at home. My daughter, their mother, is a senior lecturer in nursing at TAFE and would have to give up her profession if they were home schooled. She is not in favour of home schooling, she says she finds that children who have been home schooled have not received a fully rounded education, they lack experience in many fields and knowledge of many subjects. She also finds them less able to discuss a topic and listen to other student's points of view in a tutorial situation. It may be different in America, but public school education in Australia is first rate. My youngest granddaughter attends Perth College, a prestigious girls school here in Perth, with fees in prep school of $10,000 a year, but I think that is more a snob thing on the part of my daughter in law. My great grandson attends Guildford Grammar School, the boys equivalent of Perth College. Noah's father attended Guildford Grammar so he is sending the boys there. Unfortunately, we do not think the youngest will be able to attend because of his Stickler's syndrome. Guildford Grammar is very sports minded, and poor little Seb has -8 vision, so would be at a disadvantage on the sports field.


Maybe Australian society is more positive and safer than American society.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you never seen A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum? A history-minded person like you needs this episode of Roman history


It's been a very long time since I saw that movie. I am still a somewhat tired out MIB, so I think I'll watch it on Netflix before going to sleep nice and early tonight. Thanks for the lyrics.:-D :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> almost any public school. How many students are ready to enter college when they graduate from high school? But they do know how to put a condom on a banana. If they were ready there would be no need for remedial classes in College.


You can lead a student to learning, but you cannot force them to learn. If a student graduates from high school and is not ready for college or for tech school, it is not necessarily the fault of the teachers and/or the school curriculum. parents have to supervise their children and make sure their homework is done and also their children's grades and performance. As an ex teacher, I can name the times parents let their kids off the hook educationally for some sport or other extra curricular activity.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

EveMCooke said:


> Only for uni studies, their HECs. If Tony Rabbit and Joe Hockey get their budget through the Senate and they deregulate uni fees, well our uni students will be paying those figures too. Pretty nasty when you remember most of those guys studied at uni after Labor abolished uni fees in the 1970s; their uni studies were free then.


Of course. The "screw you, Jack; I'm all right" crowd.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think we share the same reasons for keeping children out of public and private schools, though I appreciate your response to what I said earlier. Human rights, including LGBT rights, sex education that provides facts about reproduction and respect for one's sexuality no matter what one's sexual preferences are, and so-called political correctness that helps us include as many people as possible in mainstream society are hugely important parts of anyone's education. Teaching these things in an age appropriate way is especially important.
> 
> None of the things mentioned above reject teach­ing the 3 Rs, teaching children how learn, and developing their intellects and talents. The world we live in is a pretty complicated place that needs people with complex educations. The thing I see as most beneficial in home schooling is that it is a way to protect children from that complex world and introduce them to it in the safest ways possible.


Breathtaking Maid! One of your best postings. You said it, Girl!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> It's been a very long time since I saw that movie. I am still a somewhat tired out MIB, so I think I'll watch it on Netflix before going to sleep nice and early tonight. Thanks for the lyrics.:-D :-D :thumbup: :thumbup:


I hope it holds up for you. Sleep well. Dream funny dreams.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> That's my Pervy Purl.


Why Pervy? This thread is War on Women, right? That's just one example.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Mrs. Somma - hopefully you will be heartened to know that I support you on this one since the textbook I am writing is for developmental (remedial) college students, teaching strategies for college reading and writing. However the students that I imagine I am writing for are English as a second language people, and older people who may be going back to school after some years. But you may be right - there will most likely be American kids from various public schools thru-out the country that would use my text. I hope, once the text is out, that I can get some stats on the demographics. That would be interesting.


Wait a minute! Your book isn't about putting condoms on bananas? What kind of remediation is that? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think we share the same reasons for keeping children out of public and private schools, though I appreciate your response to what I said earlier. Human rights, including LGBT rights, sex education that provides facts about reproduction and respect for one's sexuality no matter what one's sexual preferences are, and so-called political correctness that helps us include as many people as possible in mainstream society are hugely important parts of anyone's education. Teaching these things in an age appropriate way is especially important.
> 
> None of the things mentioned above reject teach­ing the 3 Rs, teaching children how learn, and developing their intellects and talents. The world we live in is a pretty complicated place that needs people with complex educations. The thing I see as most beneficial in home schooling is that it is a way to protect children from that complex world and introduce them to it in the safest ways possible.


Well said.


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

peacegoddess said:


> You can lead a student to learning, but you cannot force them to learn. If a student graduates from high school and is not ready for college or for tech school, it is not necessarily the fault of the teachers and/or the school curriculum. parents have to supervise their children and make sure their homework is done and also their children's grades and performance. As an ex teacher, I can name the times parents let their kids off the hook educationally for some sport or other extra curricular activity.


I think there is the question of a child's 'capacity to learn' which is often overlooked.

One may have been the model parent ensuring that their child is provided with their guidance and the right environment at home for them to maximise their ability with school work, yet their child does not have the capacity to ultimately embrace tertiary education or if they do, they do not complete or do well.

It's difficult to balance school requirements with a child's need to be a kid. I have no problem with parents who take the view that 'all work and no play make's Jack a dull boy.' If the child has the capacity to do well at school they will.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Why Pervy? This thread is War on Women, right? That's just one example.


I am ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Pervy - oh I just figured it out as I was typing it. That sure lowers the level of discourse here, doesn't it?

Shoo Fly Shoo!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wait a minute! Your book isn't about putting condoms on bananas? What kind of remediation is that? :lol: :lol: :lol:


We're looking for some fresh ideas for the college success portion of the text. We will change the banana to a cucumber and call it ours.


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

SQM said:


> I am ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Pervy - oh I just figured it out as I was typing it. That sure lowers the level of discourse here, doesn't it?
> 
> Shoo Fly Shoo!


Who behaves in a pervy way?


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

SQM said:


> I am ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Pervy - oh I just figured it out as I was typing it. That sure lowers the level of discourse here, doesn't it?
> 
> Shoo Fly Shoo!


Who behaves in a pervy way?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am glad they covered telegrams in Point C. This seems like a Ky State Law. This should serve as a warning to "Whomever de Jour" to stay out of KY. ( just realized that KY is not exactly a good abbreviation for a state. Maybe KY is on (or in) a slippery slope with this law.)


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Jhawk213 said:


> Who behaves in a pervy way?


Who's on first?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Good evening, Purl, dame, & SQ!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am ashamed to admit that I have no idea what Pervy - oh I just figured it out as I was typing it. That sure lowers the level of discourse here, doesn't it?
> 
> Shoo Fly Shoo!


I think it was the "slippery slope" comment, SQ.


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good evening, Purl, dame, & SQ!


Good evening to you BrattyPatty, I'm Jhawk213. I like your avatar.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Hello Jhawk. The avatar was a special request from SQM.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think it was the "slippery slope" comment, SQ.


No. You got the sequence of events out of order. But at my stage of life I will plead guilty to Pervy. But I am sure it was intended for someone else.

Yes the avatar is utterly superb. And The Brat chose an adorable Brat.


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Hello Jhawk. The avatar was a special request from SQM.


Great idea. I like that the username matches the photo. I might look for a hawk to use as mine.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> No. You got the sequence of events out of order. But at my stage of life I will plead guilty to Pervy. But I am sure it was intended for someone else.
> 
> Yes the avatar is utterly superb. And The Brat chose an adorable Brat.


Strangely, only half of your last post is showing on my screen.

Oh nevermind. I was reading from the wrong end of my bifocals.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I will see you all tomorrow. I have a hot date with my grand nephew for some online gaming fun.
Have a great night!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I will see you all tomorrow. I have a hot date with my grand nephew for some online gaming fun.
> Have a great night!


You leave us too soon but glad to hear you have a life. Hi and Bye


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> We're looking for some fresh ideas for the college success portion of the text. We will change the banana to a cucumber and call it ours.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

SQM said:


> You leave us too soon but glad to hear you have a life. Hi and Bye


Hello SQM, I'm Jhawk213. Joined recently.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jhawk213 said:


> Who behaves in a pervy way?


Is that a riddle?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jhawk213 said:


> Who behaves in a pervy way?


Apparently I do, though I plead not guilty.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> SQM said:
> 
> 
> > I am glad they covered telegrams in Point C. This seems like a Ky State Law. This should serve as a warning to "Whomever de Jour" to stay out of KY. ( just realized that KY is not exactly a good abbreviation for a state. Maybe KY is on (or in) a slippery slope with this law.)
> ...


It took me until now just to realize this was funny. Thanks, Patty.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Who's on first?


I don't know. (He's on third.)


----------



## Jhawk213 (May 19, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Is that a riddle?


Hello Poor Purl. Not a riddle, only a question.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Good evening, Purl, dame, & SQ!


Good evening, Patricia the Impolite and Annoying. Nice to see you, and Bryn (I assume that tongue belongs to Bryn).


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I will see you all tomorrow. I have a hot date with my grand nephew for some online gaming fun.
> Have a great night!


Win for us old ones! Or lose but have fun anyway.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Very nice new-born thread - Adam and Eve?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Jhawk213 said:


> Hello Poor Purl. Not a riddle, only a question.


I knew that, Jhawk. I was simply trying to put off my admission.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

SQM said:


> Breathtaking Maid! One of your best postings. You said it, Girl!


Thanks. I'm trying to be a beter MIB.:mrgreen: :twisted: :-D


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Jhawk213 said:


> I think there is the question of a child's 'capacity to learn' which is often overlooked.
> 
> One may have been the model parent ensuring that their child is provided with their guidance and the right environment at home for them to maximise their ability with school work, yet their child does not have the capacity to ultimately embrace tertiary education or if they do, they do not complete or do well.
> 
> It's difficult to balance school requirements with a child's need to be a kid. I have no problem with parents who take the view that 'all work and no play make's Jack a dull boy.' If the child has the capacity to do well at school they will.


As I said technical school. Not everyone is college material or desires college.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They must all go to International Creep Univ for graduate study.



EveMCooke said:


> Only for uni studies, their HECs. If Tony Rabbit and Joe Hockey get their budget through the Senate and they deregulate uni fees, well our uni students will be paying those figures too. Pretty nasty when you remember most of those guys studied at uni after Labor abolished uni fees in the 1970s; their uni studies were free then.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Nicely explained MIB. Thanks.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I don't think we share the same reasons for keeping children out of public and private schools, though I appreciate your response to what I said earlier. Human rights, including LGBT rights, sex education that provides facts about reproduction and respect for one's sexuality no matter what one's sexual preferences are, and so-called political correctness that helps us include as many people as possible in mainstream society are hugely important parts of anyone's education. Teaching these things in an age appropriate way is especially important.
> 
> None of the things mentioned above reject teach­ing the 3 Rs, teaching children how learn, and developing their intellects and talents. The world we live in is a pretty complicated place that needs people with complex educations. The thing I see as most beneficial in home schooling is that it is a way to protect children from that complex world and introduce them to it in the safest ways possible.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The Maid song from a Funny Thing reminded me a bit of Thomas Jefferson going after Sally Hemmings. It's just me.



Poor Purl said:


> Why Pervy? This thread is War on Women, right? That's just one example.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I must be the pervert. I thought the lyrics betrayed some perversions. I wish I'd think twice before I write. Sorry.



Jhawk213 said:


> Who behaves in a pervy way?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love that avatar so much.



BrattyPatty said:


> Good evening, Purl, dame, & SQ!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Apparently I do, though I plead not guilty.


Doesn't everyone plead not guilty? hugs


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Old and sneaky wins most of the time. And the young folk learn something. IMO



Poor Purl said:


> Win for us old ones! Or lose but have fun anyway.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> The Maid song from a Funny Thing reminded me a bit of Thomas Jefferson going after Sally Hemmings. It's just me.


I can see why. Except can you picture Jefferson being played by Zero Mostel?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I must be the pervert. I thought the lyrics betrayed some perversions. I wish I'd think twice before I write. Sorry.


If you think wiggling, jiggling, and wriggling are perversions, sure. I know my mother thought so.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Of course, although Ben Franklin might be a good match. 'Our forefathers...'



Poor Purl said:


> I can see why. Except can you picture Jefferson being played by Zero Mostel?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always worried I'd grow into my mother.



Poor Purl said:


> If you think wiggling, jiggling, and wriggling are perversions, sure. I know my mother thought so.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

_"Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
Razzle Dazzle 'em

Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
And the reaction will be passionate

Give 'em the old hocus pocus
Bead and feather 'em
How can they see with sequins in their eyes?

What if your hinges all are rusting?
What if, in fact, you're just disgusting?

Razzle dazzle 'em
And they'll never catch wise!

Given em the old RAZZLE DAZZLE!_


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huh??


Gerslay said:


> _"Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
> Razzle Dazzle 'em
> 
> Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
> ...


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> _"Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
> Razzle Dazzle 'em
> 
> Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
> ...


Gerslay
oh those libations!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> I always worried I'd grow into my mother.


damemary
we are glad you turned out as you did.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma

we blame it all on Adam and Eve. They must have been bad Apples, so no fault of ours, it is in our Genes.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Dame, "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" came out in 1966. It's pretty dated, or maybe I should say incredibly dated. It's a trifling comedy of errors type of film. Pure fluff. I watched it last night using my 1966 brain and enjoyed it a lot.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I can see why. Except can you picture Jefferson being played by Zero Mostel?


Please, please, I am a tender soul. Imagining Zero Mostel playing Thomas Jefferson is pretty scary. :twisted:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

You gotta have a gimmick! :-D


Gerslay said:


> _"Give 'em the old razzle dazzle
> Razzle Dazzle 'em
> 
> Give 'em an act with lots of flash in it
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Please, please, I am a tender soul. Imagining Zero Mostel playing Thomas Jefferson is pretty scary. :twisted:


That it is. The best part for Mostel was in _Rhinoceros_, where he turns into an actual rhinoceros.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Dame, "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum" came out in 1966. It's pretty dated, or maybe I should say incredibly dated. It's a trifling comedy of errors type of film. Pure fluff. I watched it last night using my 1966 brain and enjoyed it a lot.


Given that similar plays were being written by Plautus and Terence in pre-Christian Rome, "dated" is such a mild word.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Given that similar plays were being written by Plautus and Terence in pre-Christian Rome, "dated" is such a mild word.


Quiet! Genius at Work!


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Given that similar plays were being written by Plautus and Terence in pre-Christian Rome, "dated" is such a mild word.


Probably like the joke "Why did the chicken cross the road " which was written as we had chickens and roads.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Nebraska claims she sees no color differences among people.
> 
> Did you see that video from the Daily Show, with a white man and a black man discussing open carry?
> 
> http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts


OMG!! That was hilarious. And conversely, close enough to the truth as it is in some places that it was also scary as **LL.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Huh??


You have your show tunes and I have mine.

There's one among you who knows of what I sing...too bad she doesn't stick around long enough to splain it to ya!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> I am glad they covered telegrams in Point C. This seems like a Ky State Law. This should serve as a warning to "Whomever de Jour" to stay out of KY. ( just realized that KY is not exactly a good abbreviation for a state. Maybe KY is on (or in) a slippery slope with this law.)


Now, ROFLMAO!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> almost any public school. How many students are ready to enter college when they graduate from high school? But they do know how to put a condom on a banana. If they were ready there would be no need for remedial classes in College.


Is that what happens in schools in Wisconsin? Where I live, on the East Coast, my friends' grandchildren have been receiving excellent educations. We have National Merit Scholars in most of the high schools in my county. We have many high school graduates accepted at prestigious colleges and universities.

Of course the converse side is that everybody is expected to go to college. There are many young people who would thrive in alternative track education. Society needs mechanics, electricians, chefs, tailors, I could go on and on.

But surely you exaggerate about the preponderance of sex education in schools. Maybe too much emphasis on sports, but really!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Wait a minute! Your book isn't about putting condoms on bananas? What kind of remediation is that? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Maybe we need to get on a health kick and include zucchini as well?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Huck. It's nice to hear kind words.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> we are glad you turned out as you did.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Our local high school shared valedictorian among 20 graduates. They all took 9 advance placement hours per year each year in high school. True, the wasn't a football player in the bunch. All on their way to good universities and scholarships.



MarilynKnits said:


> Is that what happens in schools in Wisconsin? Where I live, on the East Coast, my friends' grandchildren have been receiving excellent educations. We have National Merit Scholars in most of the high schools in my county. We have many high school graduates accepted at prestigious colleges and universities.
> 
> Of course the converse side is that everybody is expected to go to college. There are many young people who would thrive in alternative track education. Society needs mechanics, electricians, chefs, tailors, I could go on and on.
> 
> But surely you exaggerate about the preponderance of sex education in schools. Maybe too much emphasis on sports, but really!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> You have your show tunes and I have mine.
> 
> There's one among you who knows of what I sing...too bad she doesn't stick around long enough to splain it to ya!


My show tune was relevant to the conversation: Maid was saying how much work she had done, so I thought Maid ought to have a maid, hence the song.

I didn't need to have it "splain"ed to me. I saw Chicago, too. Just didn't think it was relevant.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My show tune was relevant to the conversation: Maid was saying how much work she had done, so I thought Maid ought to have a maid, hence the song.
> 
> I didn't need to have it "splain"ed to me. I saw Chicago, too. Just didn't think it was relevant.


Gee relax a little. The "splainin" is what makes it relevant, not whether or not you saw Chicago...it has nothing to do with you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Gee relax a little. The "splainin" is what makes it relevant, not whether or not you saw Chicago...it has nothing to do with you.


I'm quite relaxed, thank you. You don't always express yourself clearly. Please, keep singing away here. It all makes more sense than those things Joey keeps posting.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm quite relaxed, thank you. You don't always express yourself clearly. Please, keep singing away here. It all makes more sense than those things Joey keeps posting.


What you do not understand is that I _was_ very clear. Perhaps you shouldn't always assume that things must be relevant to you. A little mystery makes life interesting.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> What you do not understand is that I _was_ very clear. Perhaps you shouldn't always assume that things must be relevant to you. A little mystery makes life interesting.


 :thumbup: She is once again in the dark on this one. No explanation was necessary for me; FYI!

"Others" got it too, I'm sure.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> What you do not understand is that I _was_ very clear. Perhaps you shouldn't always assume that things must be relevant to you. A little mystery makes life interesting.


What you seem to have forgotten is that you were responding to my message. I stupidly thought your msg. would have something to do with mine. Why I expect such things, I don't know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> What you do not understand is that I _was_ very clear. Perhaps you shouldn't always assume that things must be relevant to you. A little mystery makes life interesting.


Oh, right, Jody. Sheesh.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Gerslay - she's always twisting the truth or outright lying and blaming someone else for her actions. Don't bother defending yourself. We all can see you didn't post your song to her as she claims; she responded to YOU. Move on and ignore.

BTW: I loved your song; appropriate for the occasion. 

That and a good ole' Kentucky Bourbon.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Gee relax a little. The "splainin" is what makes it relevant, not whether or not you saw Chicago...it has nothing to do with you.


Everything here is relevant to anyone who decides it is. I responded to the lyrics you posted because I thought "you gotta have a gimmick" from "Gypsy Rose Lee" went well with your post about razzle dazzle. I only meant to appeal to your sense of humor, not make some statement that people would, IMO, misunderstand in a sort of deliberate way

I have 2 gallons of Lipton's Citrus Green Tea on hand. Let's all get out on the porch and do some sipping and random chatting. If we hang out long enough there's potato salad and hot dogs and a few other goodies for dinner.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> - - - - - not make some statement that people would, IMO, misunderstand in a sort of deliberate way.


But Maid, what fun would it be not to misunderstand. If you ride along with a sense of humor you can't take offense where none was intended. Then life is peaceful, friendly, and pleasant. The Yiddish term Kochleffel is so much more colorful than the English translation - some people just like to stir the pot.

And find reasons to insult nice ladies like you who invite us over for dinner. The tea, potato salad, and hot dogs do sound yummy. Be nice to take turns sharing our cook outs. As long as those cute little birds didn't decide to do some formation flying overhead .


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Everything here is relevant to anyone who decides it is. I responded to the lyrics you posted because I thought "you gotta have a gimmick" from "Gypsy Rose Lee" went well with your post about razzle dazzle. I only meant to appeal to your sense of humor, not make some statement that people would, IMO, misunderstand in a sort of deliberate way
> 
> I have 2 gallons of Lipton's Citrus Green Tea on hand. Let's all get out on the porch and do some sipping and random chatting. If we hang out long enough there's potato salad and hot dogs and a few other goodies for dinner.


I gotcha Maid...and I did have a gimmick! Is that tea with ginger and honey?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Gerslay - she's always twisting the truth or outright lying and blaming someone else for her actions. Don't bother defending yourself. We all can see you didn't post your song to her as she claims; she responded to YOU. Move on and ignore.
> 
> BTW: I loved your song; appropriate for the occasion.
> 
> That and a good ole' Kentucky Bourbon.


Aww gee, I just accepted an Ice Tea with Maid...does KY Bourbon mix with Tea?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> That is wonderful. There will always be good students who will learn in spite of the teacher they had. I am talking about the general population of the school. There are to many failures and drop outs in the public schools. To many are unable to read even at a third grade level. and are unable to make a budget or even do the simplest math problems without a calculator. even with a calculator they can not get a good answer because they have not learned how to solve problems.


And there are some who do well in school in spite of the home life they have and the neglectful parents they have. Those are the ones who have teachers who try to rescue them.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I will visit the Maid in Birdland for fun this evening. What country or state is Birdland? Or is it a State of Mind?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Gerslay - she's always twisting the truth or outright lying and blaming someone else for her actions. Don't bother defending yourself. We all can see you didn't post your song to her as she claims; she responded to YOU. Move on and ignore.
> 
> BTW: I loved your song; appropriate for the occasion.
> 
> That and a good ole' Kentucky Bourbon.


Yes, we have seen you enjoying your Kentucky bourbon on several occasions. You really make a fool out of that stuff.
Stop calling other people liars. Your projecting is getting stale. Very old.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And there are some who do well in school in spite of the home life they have and the neglectful parents they have. Those are the ones who have teachers who try to rescue them.


Very well stated, Marilyn. Those are the kids who thrive on kudos and good support.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Is that what happens in schools in Wisconsin? Where I live, on the East Coast, my friends' grandchildren have been receiving excellent educations. We have National Merit Scholars in most of the high schools in my county. We have many high school graduates accepted at prestigious colleges and universities.
> 
> Of course the converse side is that everybody is expected to go to college. There are many young people who would thrive in alternative track education. Society needs mechanics, electricians, chefs, tailors, I could go on and on.
> 
> But surely you exaggerate about the preponderance of sex education in schools. Maybe too much emphasis on sports, but really!


MarilynKnits
Sport is sexy, you know.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Gerslay - she's always twisting the truth or outright lying and blaming someone else for her actions. Don't bother defending yourself. We all can see you didn't post your song to her as she claims; she responded to YOU. Move on and ignore.
> 
> BTW: I loved your song; appropriate for the occasion.
> 
> That and a good ole' Kentucky Bourbon.


knitpresntgifts
try to cut back on the Bourbon, it messes with you.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> That is wonderful. There will always be good students who will learn in spite of the teacher they had. I am talking about the general population of the school. There are to many failures and drop outs in the public schools. To many are unable to read even at a third grade level. and are unable to make a budget or even do the simplest math problems without a calculator. even with a calculator they can not get a good answer because they have not learned how to solve problems.


Perhaps some of the students you refer to are not ready to learn each day and by ready I mean well rested and fed. Children born into and living in poverty have a difficult time learning for a plethora of reasons.

Poor prenatal health of mother, poor living conditions, parents not at home to see to the academic needs of students to name just a few. Stop blaming teachers.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> But Maid, what fun would it be not to misunderstand. If you ride along with a sense of humor you can't take offense where none was intended. Then life is peaceful, friendly, and pleasant. The Yiddish term Kochleffel is so much more colorful than the English translation - some people just like to stir the pot.
> 
> And find reasons to insult nice ladies like you who invite us over for dinner. The tea, potato salad, and hot dogs do sound yummy. Be nice to take turns sharing our cook outs. As long as those cute little birds didn't decide to do some formation flying overhead .


Sometimes it seems, even if it isn't so, that there trivial misunderstandings here. We're limited to words on a page, and I, for one, don't always understand the point someone is making. Maybe I'm having senior moments... :-D


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, we have seen you enjoying your Kentucky bourbon on several occasions. You really make a fool out of that stuff.
> Stop calling other people liars. Your projecting is getting stale. Very old.


Bratty Patty
Every time she calls another a Liar, she underlines her behavior. Add a slug of Bourbon and she really makes her mark. Look for that certain time of day. Often I get the impression that she belongs to a sisterhood of Partakers and they prost regularly.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

peacegoddess said:


> Perhaps some of the students you refer to are not ready to learn each day and by ready I mean well rested and fed. Children born into and living in poverty have a difficult time learning for a plethora of reasons.
> 
> Poor prenatal health of mother, poor living conditions, parents not at home to see to the academic needs of students to name just a few. Stop blaming teachers.


Well said.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Perhaps some of the students you refer to are not ready to learn each day and by ready I mean well rested and fed. Children born into and living in poverty have a difficult time learning for a plethora of reasons.
> 
> Poor prenatal health of mother, poor living conditions, parents not at home to see to the academic needs of students to name just a few. Stop blaming teachers.


peacegoddess
"leave no child behind" has certainly not helped those who are in need of additional assistance. Wasn't that the genius of G.W. who initiated that? I guess he thought that "keeping them dumb" will make them available for brainwashing. He was right on that point.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I gotcha Maid...and I did have a gimmick! Is that tea with ginger and honey?


Well, now, I have ginger and I have honey and you can use 'em if you like. We're not very good at being stingy at my house. :-D


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

peacegoddess said:


> Perhaps some of the students you refer to are not ready to learn each day and by ready I mean well rested and fed. Children born into and living in poverty have a difficult time learning for a plethora of reasons.
> 
> Poor prenatal health of mother, poor living conditions, parents not at home to see to the academic needs of students to name just a few. Stop blaming teachers.


peacegoddess
and there are other reasons. Yesterday I saw a High School Graduate on TV who had the most unfortunate life. His Mom died when he was very young, the remaining Family wound up homeless, he had nothing but struggle and heartache until an Aunt and Uncle took him in. I wonder what may have become of Andrea Yate's children, had they lived until adulthood with her. She could not even answer the question: "Did you love your children" and obviously her husband paid no attention to her either or her repeated Postpartum Depression would have been treated and perhaps fewer children would have been born to her. With every child her depression increased and no-one seemed to pay attention or even care. 
Heartbreaking to think how many children suffer in silence and suffer severely for many years when unloved and now often are hungry on top of all.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Perhaps some of the students you refer to are not ready to learn each day and by ready I mean well rested and fed. Children born into and living in poverty have a difficult time learning for a plethora of reasons.
> 
> Poor prenatal health of mother, poor living conditions, parents not at home to see to the academic needs of students to name just a few. Stop blaming teachers.


Exactly. I always worked with those kids and most were in survival mode and depressed. Chaotic lives leave little room for learning. Whole communities were depressed. Stop blaming teachers. We were the least of it - mom, dad and community must take responsibility.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm with you Purl.



Poor Purl said:


> My show tune was relevant to the conversation: Maid was saying how much work she had done, so I thought Maid ought to have a maid, hence the song.
> 
> I didn't need to have it "splain"ed to me. I saw Chicago, too. Just didn't think it was relevant.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just consider the source.



Poor Purl said:


> What you seem to have forgotten is that you were responding to my message. I stupidly thought your msg. would have something to do with mine. Why I expect such things, I don't know.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just consider the source.


Well, she turned out to be right: when I looked back, I saw that her message was not a response to mine, at least not formally. My guess is that the first song gave her the idea to post one herself, but hers was meant for Lisa, I think.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I'm with you Purl.


Thank you for the support, but I wonder why I get into these foolish spats in the first place.


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

SQM said:


> Exactly. I always worked with those kids and most were in survival mode and depressed. Chaotic lives leave little room for learning. Whole communities were depressed. Stop blaming teachers. We were the least of it - mom, dad and community must take responsibility.


Community has much to answer for when children are at risk. If we truly honored children as joeysomma so likes to proclaim with her anti choice posts, we would not have the vast amount of children living in poverty in the 'greatest country in the world".


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you for the support, but I wonder why I get into these foolish spats in the first place.


Poor Purl
you are welcome to send them my way. I am a previous Republican and during my tenure there developed the skin of an Elephant.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl said:
> 
> 
> > Thank you for the support, but I wonder why I get into these foolish spats in the first place.
> ...


And I bet you look cute in spats.

But seriously, a previous Republican? You sure don't look like one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And I bet you look cute in spats.
> 
> But seriously, a previous Republican? You sure don't look like one.


Poor Purl
well you know, as we are young we like to please, as we get older we like to think and become independent. Freedom is so enjoyable and actually has turned those who captured me in my youth, in my direction. It feels so good.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Aww gee, I just accepted an Ice Tea with Maid...does KY Bourbon mix with Tea?


Probably best to have some of both. It wouldn't do to ruin good bourbon or iced tea. My brother came over for dinner and we go most of the way through a gallon of iced tea. We're having hot weather, all of 89 where I live so we needed cooling down.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> well you know, as we are young we like to please, as we get older we like to think and become independent. Freedom is so enjoyable and actually has turned those who captured me in my youth, in my direction. It feels so good.


Huck, women and men seem to go in opposite directions. Men get more conservative as they grow older; women get more liberal as they grow wiser.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresntgifts
> try to cut back on the Bourbon, it messes with you.


Perhaps she should try 30 year old Glenfiddich or Chivas Regal?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

peacegoddess said:


> Community has much to answer for when children are at risk. If we truly honored children as joeysomma so likes to proclaim with her anti choice posts, we would not have the vast amount of children living in poverty in the 'greatest country in the world".


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And the heart and soul of a tiger. IMHO



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you are welcome to send them my way. I am a previous Republican and during my tenure there developed the skin of an Elephant.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hanging around with bad company?



Poor Purl said:


> And I bet you look cute in spats.
> 
> But seriously, a previous Republican? You sure don't look like one.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Touche.



Poor Purl said:


> Huck, women and men seem to go in opposite directions. Men get more conservative as they grow older; women get more liberal as they grow wiser.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> And the heart and soul of a tiger. IMHO


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or Johnny Walker Black.



EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps she should try 30 year old Glenfiddich or Chivas Regal?


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## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps she should try 30 year old Glenfiddich or Chivas Regal?


the 30 year old scotch is too rich for me, but go for the single malt over blended.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Huck, women and men seem to go in opposite directions. Men get more conservative as they grow older; women get more liberal as they grow wiser.


Poor Purl
generally speaking that is true but I have turned some guys around. Men do not like the dependence on Women and THINK that if they go against them that makes them look strong. Really? After all we are their primary Caregivers to the end of their lives whether they like it or not.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> Perhaps she should try 30 year old Glenfiddich or Chivas Regal?


EveMCooke
either is smooth and I like a sip over Ice. I know it seems sinful to dilute.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Or dump them on the sidewalk?



Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> generally speaking that is true but I have turned some guys around. Men do not like the dependence on Women and THINK that if they go against them that makes them look strong. Really? After all we are their primary Caregivers to the end of their lives whether they like it or not.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I like ice too. One big clear cube is perfect.



Huckleberry said:


> EveMCooke
> either is smooth and I like a sip over Ice. I know it seems sinful to dilute.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> generally speaking that is true but I have turned some guys around. Men do not like the dependence on Women and THINK that if they go against them that makes them look strong. Really? After all we are their primary Caregivers to the end of their lives whether they like it or not.


Makes sense.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Or dump them on the sidewalk?


Unfortunately, that also makes sense.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> generally speaking that is true but I have turned some guys around. Men do not like the dependence on Women and THINK that if they go against them that makes them look strong. Really? After all we are their primary Caregivers to the end of their lives whether they like it or not.


Whether we like it or not! Too often care facilities are prohibitively expensive. The unfair part is when the old farts outlive the caregiver and someone else is stuck with the problem. Justice is when an abusive or philandering ex calls pleading for a caregiver and the woman can say 'no longer responsible'.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> I like ice too. One big clear cube is perfect.


Do you know we do not have any alcohol in the house, absolutely none at all. My son's employers have a zero tolerance for drugs and alcohol, absolute zero. Any trace any you lose your job. They are subjected to random tests, both at the depot and on the job. He is sometimes tested more than once in a shift. Some of his shifts last more than 12 hours. He is on call so he can get an emergency call out at any time. He works in traffic management, part of the crew that controls the traffic at roadworks and emergency situations. Gas leaks and water leaks occur at any time so do power line and pole failures. Next time you have someone wave a stop/slow sign at you think of my son. I had thought of buying something and hiding it but no, that would bring back memories of my father because that is what he did.

Ps. Enjoy a drink for me. Drink it slowly and with relish and refinement.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> Whether we like it or not! Too often care facilities are prohibitively expensive. The unfair part is when the old farts outlive the caregiver and someone else is stuck with the problem. Justice is when an abusive or philandering ex calls pleading for a caregiver and the woman can say 'no longer responsible'.


I hope the rest of you lucked out in the husband department the way I did. One of my friends said he was my Mr. Right, but the kicker is his first name is Always. He is far from perfect, but he takes sensible care of his health. Regular visits to the urologist and took action when the PSA, which was low, did start to rise. Caught the prostate cancer before it was inoperable and didn't even need chemo or x-ray follow up. Seven years clear now.

Also followed up on the back pain and had the stenosis of the lumbar 4 vertebra operated before it damaged the spinal column beyond repair.

Of course he was a baby during recovery, but daughter and I dealt.

When I had the hip replacement he was right there taking care of me, so I can't complain about babying him after his surgeries.

We need to train our sons to be man enough to see the doctor when something doesn't feel right. IMHO (or IMNSHO) it is not "manly" to avoid seeing the doctor. Or "womanly" for that matter. Real grown-ups face the truth of the situation and deal with it in the best manner available.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If you think wiggling, jiggling, and wriggling are perversions, sure. I know my mother thought so.


So your mom was against twerking, too? She must know mine, lol.
:lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> So your mom was against twerking, too? She must know mine, lol.
> :lol:


If mom had known what it meant, she would have been against it. She would have thought your mother was a loose woman - look at the daughter she turned out. :roll: :roll: :roll:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If mom had known what it meant, she would have been against it. She would have thought your mother was a loose woman - look at the daughter she turned out. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Ha ha, like my mom would even admit to knowing me!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


Oh, Nebraska, so sorry for your loss. Is there anyone else in DH's family who can help or is there only that wastrel brother? I don't know how I can help you, but if you think of something, please ask.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

I'm so sorry for your loss, KFN. We're here when you need us.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


Sorry to hear this. Take care.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


My thoughts go out to you at this sad time. Hold close all the happy memories and treasure all the happy times. Be the for your mother in law, she needs your love now. Just hold her close and let her know you are there for her, let her know you love her.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

KFN, I'm sorry to hear of your FIL's passing. Bless you for caring for your MIL--


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


I am so sorry for this loss. I hope your family only hears good news in the future. We will save your place here for you. My condolences to your husband. We miss you already, Nebs.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I hope the rest of you lucked out in the husband department the way I did. One of my friends said he was my Mr. Right, but the kicker is his first name is Always. He is far from perfect, but he takes sensible care of his health. Regular visits to the urologist and took action when the PSA, which was low, did start to rise. Caught the prostate cancer before it was inoperable and didn't even need chemo or x-ray follow up. Seven years clear now.
> 
> Also followed up on the back pain and had the stenosis of the lumbar 4 vertebra operated before it damaged the spinal column beyond repair.
> 
> ...


---------
I am married to one of those too- He has done what he had to do to deal with two valve replacements - congestive heart failure and heart problems for 20 years he takes care of himself and never complains - He looks after me and we have been married 59 years and knew each other 3 days when he asked me to marry him. I have a shoulder which was damaged in a fall. Rotator cuff - and he does all the things that cause me to irritate it which keeps me from a lot of pain.

He is someone I admire completely and I consider myself one of the luckiest - ever. There has never been a doubt -- I trust and know him completely and he knows me.

Days like today are when I realize how lucky I am as he likes me the way I am and always has and always will. He knows me. Bad names can't hurt me as I know he knows better. So someone who chooses to see me in a not nice light don't worry me too much. The person I most care about knows me absolutely - my friends do to. We just do the best we can - all of us.

Finest person I have ever met. He taught our sons to treat women with respect and to man up and face reality - by his example.

Off my soap box.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thanks everybody! There's nobody else, just the deadbeat brother. He did come, so things are a little uncomfortable. We'll get through it. Your caring means more than I can say. We've got a visitation Wednesday, the funeral on Thursday and the cremation and internment on Friday. After that, I'm just going to stay here in Mound City and get everything packed up. Moving day is June 21. I feel like my thoughts are wandering. I only got two hours sleep Saturday night and four hours last night. I'm really hoping my mil will be able to sleep tonight. Tomorrow, my Hubby's staying with her and I'm driving back to Omaha to get funeral clothes etc... The next couple of weeks will be crazy. I'll try to drop in once in a while. I really appreciate you guys. I never could have imagined the depth of my feelings. Thank you!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks everybody! There's nobody else, just the deadbeat brother. He did come, so things are a little uncomfortable. We'll get through it. Your caring means more than I can say. We've got a visitation Wednesday, the funeral on Thursday and the cremation and internment on Friday. After that, I'm just going to stay here in Mound City and get everything packed up. Moving day is June 21. I feel like my thoughts are wandering. I only got two hours sleep Saturday night and four hours last night. I'm really hoping my mil will be able to sleep tonight. Tomorrow, my Hubby's staying with her and I'm driving back to Omaha to get funeral clothes etc... The next couple of weeks will be crazy. I'll try to drop in once in a while. I really appreciate you guys. I never could have imagined the depth of my feelings. Thank you!


Oh knitter! I have been off line a lot and teaching a class so have hardly been on line at all. I just read your post! I wondered how you were and why you weren't posting. It sounds like you need Prayers and support and I am thinking of you. You are a friend and I hope that you are able to deal with what you have to deal with and know that you have friends on this thread -- I am one of them. Hope to see you soon.

Life will be different and we are here for you. Shirley


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> Oh knitter! I have been off line a lot and teaching a class so have hardly been on line at all. I just read your post! I wondered how you were and why you weren't posting. It sounds like you need Prayers and support and I am thinking of you. You are a friend and I hope that you are able to deal with what you have to deal with and know that you have friends on this thread -- I am one of them. Hope to see you soon.
> 
> Life will be different and we are here for you. Shirley


Thanks, Shirley! Different is an understatement! Gotta go. Bye.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


Condolences to you, your husband, and the rest of the family on this sudden loss. And best wishes on making the transition with your mother in law. I hope you have local senior support services that help your family adjust, particularly your mother in law.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks everybody! There's nobody else, just the deadbeat brother. He did come, so things are a little uncomfortable. We'll get through it. Your caring means more than I can say. We've got a visitation Wednesday, the funeral on Thursday and the cremation and internment on Friday. After that, I'm just going to stay here in Mound City and get everything packed up. Moving day is June 21. I feel like my thoughts are wandering. I only got two hours sleep Saturday night and four hours last night. I'm really hoping my mil will be able to sleep tonight. Tomorrow, my Hubby's staying with her and I'm driving back to Omaha to get funeral clothes etc... The next couple of weeks will be crazy. I'll try to drop in once in a while. I really appreciate you guys. I never could have imagined the depth of my feelings. Thank you!


You know we are all your extended family. I hope the "good vibes" from around the world help your family get through the rough times and come out with a comfortable new normal.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

My condolences to Knitter from Nebraska. I know that your FIL still loves your family, especially your MIL, as you all have loved him. You be well. KP is full of wonderful loving people.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Or dump them on the sidewalk?


damemary
no wasting of good things.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


Knitter from Nebraska
May all of you get strength from wonderful Memories, and may the Service for the departed turn into a celebration of his Life.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I hope the rest of you lucked out in the husband department the way I did. One of my friends said he was my Mr. Right, but the kicker is his first name is Always. He is far from perfect, but he takes sensible care of his health. Regular visits to the urologist and took action when the PSA, which was low, did start to rise. Caught the prostate cancer before it was inoperable and didn't even need chemo or x-ray follow up. Seven years clear now.
> 
> Also followed up on the back pain and had the stenosis of the lumbar 4 vertebra operated before it damaged the spinal column beyond repair.
> 
> ...


MarilynKnits
I landed a Jewel with wonderful Parents.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Hi, everybody! I miss your company. My father in law had a stroke and died yesterday. He had a blood vessel in his brain, burst. My mother in law needs constant care at this point. Its been very difficult for her. We were in the process of trying to get them moved to Omaha. They(she) are to close on the sale of their house later this month. I'm going to be staying here until we get his mom moved. And she's going to be living with us for a while. I'm not sure she will ever be able to live alone, so my life is about to change drastically. Anyway, I probably won't be on much for the next few weeks. Talk to you later.


KFN: I'm so sorry to hear of the passing of your father-in-law. I know how close he was to you and that he even officiated at your wedding and that you had regular bible studies with your mother-in-law. I join with all those praying for you and with you that the Lord bless you and all your family and that He comfort you and fill you with strength during this difficult time.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Another murder in one of our high schools.
When are people going to figure out that we do need gun control? Our kids are killing each other. 
It's a sad thing to send your child to school and worry if he/she will come home alive.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Another murder in one of our high schools again.
> When are people going to figure out that we do need gun control? Our kids are killing each other. Such a sad time.


Just heard that, too. It was in Oregon. The killer shot one student and is dead himself--but the report didn't say if he shot himself or if he was shot by police.
Then we had the cop killers in Nevada the other day---the "Freedom Figjters" who had gone to help Clive Bundy hold off the government. What are we going to do about this domestic terrorism?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Just heard that, too. It was in Oregon. The killer shot one student and is dead himself--but the report didn't say if he shot himself or if he was shot by police.
> Then we had the cop killers in Nevada the other day---the "Freedom Figjters" who had gone to help Clive Bundy hold off the government. What are we going to do about this domestic terrorism?


I think people need to band together and let their voices be heard that the gun violence has to stop. That picture of the moron wearing an assault rifle around his neck while standing in the baby department at Target gave me the chills.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> When are you, and others, going to realize, if that person (shooter) wanted a gun he would get a gun, some way or another. Do you expect a killer to obey any law?


I expect them to obey the law BEFORE they become a killer.
When are you and others going to realize that guns are manufactured with the purpose to kill.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> When are you, and others, going to realize, if that person (shooter) wanted a gun he would get a gun, some way or another. Do you expect a killer to obey any law?


So what's your solution? Keep your kids locked in at home all day? (Though if there's a gun at home, one of them is bound to find it and "play" with it.) Send them to school with body armor (then the only fatal shots would be to the head).

If there's a law against open carry or restrictions on who can buy guns, criminals can be arrested. If you insist that gun manufacturers continue to turn them out and sell them to anybody who wants one, there will be even more for criminals to steal and no way to cut down on numbers. But that's too obvious. Better just to say what you said and produce more shooters to buy up the surplus of guns. The people they kill won't be around to complain, either.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I expect them to obey the law BEFORE they become a killer.
> When are you and others going to realize that guns are manufactured with the purpose to kill.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So what's your solution? Keep your kids locked in at home all day? (Though if there's a gun at home, one of them is bound to find it and "play" with it.) Send them to school with body armor (then the only fatal shots would be to the head).
> 
> If there's a law against open carry or restrictions on who can buy guns, criminals can be arrested. If you insist that gun manufacturers continue to turn them out and sell them to anybody who wants one, there will be even more for criminals to steal and no way to cut down on numbers. But that's too obvious. Better just to say what you said and produce more shooters to buy up the surplus of guns. The people they kill won't be around to complain, either.


No Purl, her solution is to back the second amendment word for word. It doesn't matter how many innocent children and civilians are murdered. It doesn't matter that our society is no longer safe. Just keep making those guns so any deranged, anti- government, white supremicist person can keep on killing.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> So what's your solution? Keep your kids locked in at home all day? (Though if there's a gun at home, one of them is bound to find it and "play" with it.) Send them to school with body armor (then the only fatal shots would be to the head).
> 
> If there's a law against open carry or restrictions on who can buy guns, criminals can be arrested. If you insist that gun manufacturers continue to turn them out and sell them to anybody who wants one, there will be even more for criminals to steal and no way to cut down on numbers. But that's too obvious. Better just to say what you said and produce more shooters to buy up the surplus of guns. The people they kill won't be around to complain, either.


All good points, Purl. And when will parents who do own firearms learn be responsible and use trigger guards, lock them away, store ammunition separately? If it is just adults in the household, do they keep their mouths shut about gun ownership so they are not targeted by thieves? If there are children in the household, do the parents teach them gun safety when they reach an appropriate age?

Kids are ingenious about finding "hidden" firearms on top shelves of closets and other "safe" hidey holes.

Another factor is the availability of guns to mentally ill people like the one who murdered the children and teachers and the the one targeting women because he was sexually frustrated.

Our states with adequate gun control laws are undermined by the states where guns are sold to anybody as if they were not lethal products.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> When are you, and others, going to realize, if that person (shooter) wanted a gun he would get a gun, some way or another. Do you expect a killer to obey any law?


Thank you, Mrs. Somma.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thank you, Mrs. Somma.


Do I note agreement in that Thank you? Do you own a gun? We could stick up Purl Soho, if we ever get there.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Do I note agreement in that Thank you? Do you own a gun? We could stick up Purl Soho, if we ever get there.


Absolutely I agree. Criminals will always manage to get their guns if they are determined. I imagine a huge black market of guns on every tough neighborhood's corner. Nope, I don't own a gun but I have a sturdy mop handle. I can carry that if we ever make it to Soho.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Absolutely I agree. Criminals will always manage to get their guns if they are determined. I imagine a huge black market of guns on every tough neighborhood's corner. Nope, I don't own a gun but I have a sturdy mop handle. I can carry that if we ever make it to Soho.


I think some of the blame for the current gun violence goes to the right wing "patriots" who instill "hate the government", anti-government," "fear the government" feelings in a certain segment of the population. The far right radicals and people like Ted Cruz and others are running around spouting anti-federal government attitudes, turning people against the federal government; and Fox News and Glenn Beck are right with them fanning the flames. Will we hear anything about the Millers' "freedom fighting" ideas drummed into their brains by the pseudo-patriotic fools who think they're doing a good thing for this country? Will they admit to being a little responsible for this type of behavior? 
There's too much anti-government and anti-Obama rhetoric being bandied about, and they need to tone it down and stop talking about arms and revolution. In my opinion, we're going to see more and more of this domestic terrorism from radicals who don't have filters on their brains.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have always been very concerned about the jailhouse conversion guys to Islam. They seem the most ripe to get their anger out via terrorist acts. And they don't have to worry about gaining entry to this country.

I would like to add that I am against all assault weapons but I assume they are very desirable on the black market.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I think some of the blame for the current gun violence goes to the right wing "patriots" who instill "hate the government", anti-government," "fear the government" feelings in a certain segment of the population. The far right radicals and people like Ted Cruz and others are running around spouting anti-federal government attitudes, turning people against the federal government; and Fox News and Glenn Beck are right with them fanning the flames. Will we hear anything about the Millers' "freedom fighting" ideas drummed into their brains by the pseudo-patriotic fools who think they're doing a good thing for this country? Will they admit to being a little responsible for this type of behavior?
> There's too much anti-government and anti-Obama rhetoric being bandied about, and they need to tone it down and stop talking about arms and revolution. In my opinion, we're going to see more and more of this domestic terrorism from radicals who don't have filters on their brains.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Absolutely I agree. Criminals will always manage to get their guns if they are determined. I imagine a huge black market of guns on every tough neighborhood's corner. Nope, I don't own a gun but I have a sturdy mop handle. I can carry that if we ever make it to Soho.


You can even ride that mop into town. Dual purpose there, make it easier for you to heist more yarn

:lol: :lol:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

maysmom said:


> You can even ride that mop into town. Dual purpose there, make it easier for you to heist more yarn
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Is this May or does her husband respond? I always feel like I am writing to May's husband.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Another murder in one of our high schools.
> When are people going to figure out that we do need gun control? Our kids are killing each other.
> It's a sad thing to send your child to school and worry if he/she will come home alive.


Another shooting in a school. When are we going to start taking care of the seriously mentally ill somewhere besides in our jails? Why is it so hard for concerned parents to get mental health care for their disturbed children, especially when the parents think their child poses a risk to others?


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Another murder in one of our high schools.
> When are people going to figure out that we do need gun control? Our kids are killing each other.
> It's a sad thing to send your child to school and worry if he/she will come home alive.


Another shooting in a school. When are we going to start taking care of the seriously mentally ill somewhere besides in our jails? Why is it so hard for concerned parents to get mental health care for their disturbed children, especially when the parents think their child poses a risk to others?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Is this May or does her husband respond? I always feel like I am writing to May's husband.


No ma'am I'm May's mom. May's dad isn't on the computer much, although he and May's canine brother are featured in my avatar. (I avoid the camera, lol) May doesn't live here anymore, either.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> You can even ride that mop into town. Dual purpose there, make it easier for you to heist more yarn
> 
> :lol: :lol:


Do you think she's a water witch, who uses a mop instead of a broom to fly?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you think she's a water witch, who uses a mop instead of a broom to fly?


Only if it's a wet mop. A dry mop? A Swiffer witch.
:twisted:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Only if it's a wet mop. A dry mop? A Swiffer witch.
> :twisted:


Less irritating than a sand witch.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> I think some of the blame for the current gun violence goes to the right wing "patriots" who instill "hate the government", anti-government," "fear the government" feelings in a certain segment of the population. The far right radicals and people like Ted Cruz and others are running around spouting anti-federal government attitudes, turning people against the federal government; and Fox News and Glenn Beck are right with them fanning the flames. Will we hear anything about the Millers' "freedom fighting" ideas drummed into their brains by the pseudo-patriotic fools who think they're doing a good thing for this country? Will they admit to being a little responsible for this type of behavior?
> There's too much anti-government and anti-Obama rhetoric being bandied about, and they need to tone it down and stop talking about arms and revolution. In my opinion, we're going to see more and more of this domestic terrorism from radicals who don't have filters on their brains.


Sorry to hit and run, but I think you've fallen for the anti gun propaganda. We're in more danger from our own government than any patriot. The government is trying to villify patriots. But in truth, they love their country and are willing to fight for it. They're no different than George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. The government, through the media is trying to make you think that the patriots are crazy fanatics. But in truth, the government feels threatened by those who would seek to limit their power.

Gotta go finish packing and get back to Mound City. Ttyl!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sorry to hit and run, but I think you've fallen for the anti gun propaganda. We're in more danger from our own government than any patriot. The government is trying to villify patriots. But in truth, they love their country and are willing to fight for it. They're no different than George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. The government, through the media is trying to make you think that the patriots are crazy fanatics. But in truth, the government feels threatened by those who would seek to limit their power.
> 
> Gotta go finish packing and get back to Mound City. Ttyl!


Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
End of rant


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


 :thumbup:  :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


That's a sensible rant, not a crazy rant. Thanks for putting it so clearly.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

A link was posted on the 'friendly thread' which I posted a while ago to KPG

http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-262935-61.html#5426126

I was informed after I wrote it by Janeway and I believe it was Gerslay that it had been a joke and there was no suggestion etc or that KPG was appointed leader or whatever I called her - (I have not bothered to re read this post} I don't even remember exactly what I wrote -. -- they didn't do her a favor and it caused her a lot of hurt. When I read their conversation, they achieved what they were after - caused me to believe it.

I was mistaken and apologized - She chose to post it on the 'friendly thread' afew minutes ago ,which is a shame. I believe it was before she read my pm (if she has read it). I am not going to discuss it any more. I have pm'd her explaining why it was posted, I have once again asked her to let it go.

It is entirely up to KPG if she wishes or doesn't wish to do so. I apologized and that is it. If it hadn't been done deliberately so that we would think she was running the group I never would have posted it.

I am sick of the whole business. Too much going on in my life right now to be dragged into this cat fight. I will post on the other thread and will leave this one alone as well as the other Political threads for the time being. I promised to stay away from D and P and have done so except to invite them to join in our color conversation workshop 3 days ago.

I want to thank her for posting the link on the Thread where we are trying to meet each other half way. I guess it gives her satisfaction - so be it.

So, KPG carry it on or let it go --

I am pretty upset, but it could be because of what is going on in my life right now. For Thumper, Bonnie, KIN, yarnie, and WCK and I believe a few others I thank you for at least giving it a chance. Also Wombat has posted there and I am not sure about any others. I hope more will post and make the effort. If not, so be it.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sorry to hit and run, but I think you've fallen for the anti gun propaganda. We're in more danger from our own government than any patriot. The government is trying to villify patriots. But in truth, they love their country and are willing to fight for it. They're no different than George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. The government, through the media is trying to make you think that the patriots are crazy fanatics. But in truth, the government feels threatened by those who would seek to limit their power.
> 
> Gotta go finish packing and get back to Mound City. Ttyl!


I know that most people in this country are patriots. I know I am, but I am not in favor of of taking the country back to the days of lawlessness. 
Regulations are the price we pay for or freedom and a civilized society.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> A link was posted on the 'friendly thread' which I posted recently to KPG
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-262935-61.html#5426126
> 
> ...


Can't say I blame you, Shirl. KPG and those you have mentioned are not worth your health.
Of course she posted in Neutral Bridges. She knows exactly what she is doing and I am personally happy that she is taking a "leave of absence". I am tired of the 'Poor me" act. If she didn't post her nasty and condescending remarks, maybe she would be liked by more people. She isn't fooling anyone here. The old saying goes that you reap what you sow. What goes around comes around.
Feel better and don't waste anymore time worrying about this. It isn't worth it.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


I think you're grouping together the patriots and the unbalanced. The left often paints all conservatives/patriots with the same broad brush. Not all patriots are unbalanced as are not all liberals. Mental illness and even gun ownership are not only among the so called patriots. We should never judge people as a group. Because every one of them is an individual. I have learned not to judge all liberals the same. There are different degrees of everything. And lastly I don't advocate "fighting" the government in a physical way. But I sincerely believe that our government is doing away with our rights. If we don't fight them with our votes, with our letters and with our awareness, we will become a tyranny. Already our government spies on us. It has given itself permission to imprison us without due process and even kill us. Our president says he can pass laws all by himself. He has a pen and a phone. Our government was set up with three branches for a reason. Our country is being dismantled before our very eyes. I don't understand why it bothered all of you when bush did these things, but not when obama does them.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


Very well said, al!!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can't say I blame you, Shirl. KPG and those you have mentioned are not worth your health.
> Of course she posted in Neutral Bridges. She knows exactly what she is doing and I am personally happy that she is taking a "leave of absence". I am tired of the 'Poor me" act. If she didn't post her nasty and condescending remarks, maybe she would be liked by more people. She isn't fooling anyone here. The old saying goes that you reap what you sow. What goes around comes around.
> Feel better and don't waste anymore time worrying about this. It isn't worth it.


She has not left - she posted it within the last couple of hours.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Can't say I blame you, Shirl. KPG and those you have mentioned are not worth your health.
> Of course she posted in Neutral Bridges. She knows exactly what she is doing and I am personally happy that she is taking a "leave of absence". I am tired of the 'Poor me" act. If she didn't post her nasty and condescending remarks, maybe she would be liked by more people. She isn't fooling anyone here. The old saying goes that you reap what you sow. What goes around comes around.
> Feel better and don't waste anymore time worrying about this. It isn't worth it.


You misund erstood me -those that I mentioned have made the effort and posted there at least once or twice and have been friendly and kind.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know that most people in this country are patriots. I know I am, but I am not in favor of of taking the country back to the days of lawlessness.
> Regulations are the price we pay for or freedom and a civilized society.


I don't think that anyone advocates lawlessness. But the regulating is going too far. Most of the regulations ate being drawn up by lobbyists for the global corporations and are designed to put competitors out of business. Every year, thousands and thousands of laws are passed to the point that they are trying to control everything we do. Laws and regulations are meant to benefit society as a whole, not special interest groups. And society as a whole should not be punished for the sins of a few.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you're grouping together the patriots and the unbalanced. The left often paints all conservatives/patriots with the same broad brush. Not all patriots are unbalanced as are not all liberals. Mental illness and even gun ownership are not only among the so called patriots. We should never judge people as a group. Because every one of them is an individual. I have learned not to judge all liberals the same. There are different degrees of everything. And lastly I don't advocate "fighting" the government in a physical way. But I sincerely believe that our government is doing away with our rights. If we don't fight them with our votes, with our letters and with our awareness, we will become a tyranny. Already our government spies on us. It has given itself permission to imprison us without due process and even kill us. Our president says he can pass laws all by himself. He has a pen and a phone. Our government was set up with three branches for a reason. Our country is being dismantled before our very eyes. I don't understand why it bothered all of you when bush did these things, but not when obama does them.


It seems as if there are a lot of people running around with guns strapped to their legs, and I think the rhetoric of the right wing spurs the unbalanced among the radical crowd to actually become hyped up enough to go berserk.

Our president has to try to get things done without ANY cooperation from the law-making body, Congress. I think the obstructionist repubs and Tea Partiers are the ones who have caused the government to come to a grinding halt as far as putting out ANY good legislation. Don't you remember how they (Mitch) made that pronouncement as soon as Obama was elected? What the heck kind of patriotism is that? There are things about the President that I don't particularly like, but at least he's trying to work for his money--which I can't say about the recalcitrant babies in the House.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

In my neck of the woods, most conservative Republicans and most tea party members have stopped calling themselves patriots. The reason is too many self-labeled 'patriots' are gun-toting loony tunes, white supremacists, or both all wrapped up in one camo-wearing, straight-arm saluting pile of dung.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> You misund erstood me -those that I mentioned have made the effort and posted there at least once or twice and have been friendly and kind.


I guess I did. But I did mean what I said regarding this 1 person. She is not worth getting sick over. 
I see that she hasn't left. It is best to ignore her from now on and to enjoy the thread regardless of what she posts.
Some people just can't live without conflict in their lives and I know that you are not one of them.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

M


BrattyPatty said:


> I know that most people in this country are patriots. I know I am, but I am not in favor of of taking the country back to the days of lawlessness.
> Regulations are the price we pay for or freedom and a civilized society.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Mountain Stitches said:


> In my neck of the woods, most conservative Republicans and most tea party members have stopped calling themselves patriots. The reason is too many self-labeled 'patriots' are gun-toting loony tunes, white supremacists, or both all wrapped up in one camo-wearing, straight-arm saluting pile of dung.


...with those "terrorist" beards hanging down to their waists. :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Dear KnitterfromNB, I'm sorry for the loss in your family. You are a kind soul to aid your MIL especially when she needs you so much. Thinking of you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right of course. Thanks for the reminder.



Huckleberry said:


> damemary
> no wasting of good things.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Then what do you suggest? Live in a bunker and arm yourself?



joeysomma said:


> When are you, and others, going to realize, if that person (shooter) wanted a gun he would get a gun, some way or another. Do you expect a killer to obey any law?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Paperweights? Toys? Argument mediators?



BrattyPatty said:


> I expect them to obey the law BEFORE they become a killer.
> When are you and others going to realize that guns are manufactured with the purpose to kill.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hate to have to say it, but I will. Satire alert.



Poor Purl said:


> So what's your solution? Keep your kids locked in at home all day? (Though if there's a gun at home, one of them is bound to find it and "play" with it.) Send them to school with body armor (then the only fatal shots would be to the head).
> 
> If there's a law against open carry or restrictions on who can buy guns, criminals can be arrested. If you insist that gun manufacturers continue to turn them out and sell them to anybody who wants one, there will be even more for criminals to steal and no way to cut down on numbers. But that's too obvious. Better just to say what you said and produce more shooters to buy up the surplus of guns. The people they kill won't be around to complain, either.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm so angry, mostly because I truly don't see a solution, or change of any kind occurring.



BrattyPatty said:


> No Purl, her solution is to back the second amendment word for word. It doesn't matter how many innocent children and civilians are murdered. It doesn't matter that our society is no longer safe. Just keep making those guns so any deranged, anti- government, white supremicist person can keep on killing.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Respectfully, for what?



SQM said:


> Thank you, Mrs. Somma.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I think some of the blame for the current gun violence goes to the right wing "patriots" who instill "hate the government", anti-government," "fear the government" feelings in a certain segment of the population. The far right radicals and people like Ted Cruz and others are running around spouting anti-federal government attitudes, turning people against the federal government; and Fox News and Glenn Beck are right with them fanning the flames. Will we hear anything about the Millers' "freedom fighting" ideas drummed into their brains by the pseudo-patriotic fools who think they're doing a good thing for this country? Will they admit to being a little responsible for this type of behavior?
> There's too much anti-government and anti-Obama rhetoric being bandied about, and they need to tone it down and stop talking about arms and revolution. In my opinion, we're going to see more and more of this domestic terrorism from radicals who don't have filters on their brains.


    I'm afraid I see it the same way you do. And I must admit I've changed. I avoid crowds. I seldom visit some areas. I'm usually home early.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

SQM said:


> I have always been very concerned about the jailhouse conversion guys to Islam. They seem the most ripe to get their anger out via terrorist acts. And they don't have to worry about gaining entry to this country.
> 
> I would like to add that I am against all assault weapons but I assume they are very desirable on the black market.


I don't understand your remark about the assault weapons on the black market.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Only if it's a wet mop. A dry mop? A Swiffer witch.
> :twisted:


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Less irritating than a sand witch.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'm with you all the way on this one Al.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I know that most people in this country are patriots. I know I am, but I am not in favor of of taking the country back to the days of lawlessness.
> Regulations are the price we pay for or freedom and a civilized society.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think this is a topic we must agree to disagree on.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you're grouping together the patriots and the unbalanced. The left often paints all conservatives/patriots with the same broad brush. Not all patriots are unbalanced as are not all liberals. Mental illness and even gun ownership are not only among the so called patriots. We should never judge people as a group. Because every one of them is an individual. I have learned not to judge all liberals the same. There are different degrees of everything. And lastly I don't advocate "fighting" the government in a physical way. But I sincerely believe that our government is doing away with our rights. If we don't fight them with our votes, with our letters and with our awareness, we will become a tyranny. Already our government spies on us. It has given itself permission to imprison us without due process and even kill us. Our president says he can pass laws all by himself. He has a pen and a phone. Our government was set up with three branches for a reason. Our country is being dismantled before our very eyes. I don't understand why it bothered all of you when bush did these things, but not when obama does them.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

Who posted? Must be having a senior moment.



Designer1234 said:


> She has not left - she posted it within the last couple of hours.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put. Thank you. 
'


alcameron said:


> It seems as if there are a lot of people running around with guns strapped to their legs, and I think the rhetoric of the right wing spurs the unbalanced among the radical crowd to actually become hyped up enough to go berserk.
> 
> Our president has to try to get things done without ANY cooperation from the law-making body, Congress. I think the obstructionist repubs and Tea Partiers are the ones who have caused the government to come to a grinding halt as far as putting out ANY good legislation. Don't you remember how they (Mitch) made that pronouncement as soon as Obama was elected? What the heck kind of patriotism is that? There are things about the President that I don't particularly like, but at least he's trying to work for his money--which I can't say about the recalcitrant babies in the House.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Proud to know you're out there standing up for truth. Thank you.



Mountain Stitches said:


> In my neck of the woods, most conservative Republicans and most tea party members have stopped calling themselves patriots. The reason is too many self-labeled 'patriots' are gun-toting loony tunes, white supremacists, or both all wrapped up in one camo-wearing, straight-arm saluting pile of dung.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Paperweights? Toys? Argument mediators?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

War on VOTERS
How Ohio is making it more difficult for people to vote
Silly me! I thought we wanted everyone to vote!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/opinion/more-voting-games-in-ohio.html?emc=edit_ty_20140610&nl=opinion&nlid=12862594


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Only if it's a wet mop. A dry mop? A Swiffer witch.
> :twisted:


A Shark? The Rocket model looks very sleek?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

alcameron said:


> Disagree. I feel as though I'm in more danger from unbalanced people with guns who are brain-washed by right wing radicals to fight the government before the government "gets" them. Fighting for your country does not mean fighting against the government, does not mean hating President Obama, does not mean failure to pay your taxes---land lease taxes or income taxes--, and I think it's irresponsible of people like Cruz, Gohmert. Limbaugh, Hannity, to encourage that kind of rebellion.
> End of rant


Al, you have my vote on this one. Mentally unbalanced media driven fanatics with assault rifles? The stuff horror movies are made of. These are not my neighbors with licensed rifles hunting deer in season (something I would never do, either) but are responsible gun owners.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you're grouping together the patriots and the unbalanced. The left often paints all conservatives/patriots with the same broad brush. Not all patriots are unbalanced as are not all liberals. Mental illness and even gun ownership are not only among the so called patriots. We should never judge people as a group. Because every one of them is an individual. I have learned not to judge all liberals the same. There are different degrees of everything. And lastly I don't advocate "fighting" the government in a physical way. But I sincerely believe that our government is doing away with our rights. If we don't fight them with our votes, with our letters and with our awareness, we will become a tyranny. Already our government spies on us. It has given itself permission to imprison us without due process and even kill us. Our president says he can pass laws all by himself. He has a pen and a phone. Our government was set up with three branches for a reason. Our country is being dismantled before our very eyes. I don't understand why it bothered all of you when bush did these things, but not when obama does them.


I think we are getting mixed signals semantically. Patriots are people who believe in and support their government. They vote to try to get representatives who will provide a balanced government. The word patriot is not confined to conservative minded people. There are as high a percentage of liberal minded people who are true patriots. The goals, which should be our common goals to provide a regulated society that gives people freedom but not license, are approached with different philosophies.

But we cannot let the word patriot be hijacked and moved to the right rather than letting it stay a centrist definition of well intentioned citizens (and those who aspire for citizenship). I can think of no more sincere a patriot than my grandfather who came to America as a young adult seeking freedom from pogroms and a 25 year conscription into the Russian army. He worked long days, went to night school at Eastern District HS in Brooklyn to learn English and became a citizen as soon as his English abilities were acceptable. He was a union organizer (CIO) at a time when workers were mistreated in sweatshops. He was assaulted by management goons. And he was very liberal in his political opinions.

Extremists who attack the government and its leaders with violence are not patriots. They are domestic terrorists.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> She has not left - she posted it within the last couple of hours.


Sometimes I compare a particular individual to the herpes virus. Lurking invisibly then bursting out and causing pain and a rash. And there is no cure.

Shirley, keep on doing what you have always done. You walk the high road, bring us wonderful workshops to help us be better crafts people, and set an example of what a gracious person really is.

Hope the test results show that what ails you and brought you to be tested is benign and can be treated to restore you to comfort and excellent health.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

alcameron said:


> It seems as if there are a lot of people running around with guns strapped to their legs, and I think the rhetoric of the right wing spurs the unbalanced among the radical crowd to actually become hyped up enough to go berserk.
> 
> Our president has to try to get things done without ANY cooperation from the law-making body, Congress. I think the obstructionist repubs and Tea Partiers are the ones who have caused the government to come to a grinding halt as far as putting out ANY good legislation. Don't you remember how they (Mitch) made that pronouncement as soon as Obama was elected? What the heck kind of patriotism is that? There are things about the President that I don't particularly like, but at least he's trying to work for his money--which I can't say about the recalcitrant babies in the House.


Congress is doing its job. They are representing the people who elected them. Those on the right don't want the things that the president is trying to put into place. Our system was created so that one man could not come in and do things against the will of the people. Our government was supposed to be about individual rights. Those on the left wouldn't want a republican president to fundamentally change our nation any more than those on the right don't want a democrat to fundamentally change it. I know that you think congress is just being uncooperative, but in actuality they are representing the views of the republicans.

That said, republicans are conservative people. They don't like change. And they surely don't want the president to fundamentally change our country. They want things to return to the pure version that was intended by our founding fathers. Something both sides have in common is that we want the corruption and the crony capitalism to end. I wish that those of us on both sides could bring pressure upon our lawmakers to end the corruption. Until that is done, nothing else matters. Because both sides are beholden to special interests and neither side is doing what's best for the people.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> In my neck of the woods, most conservative Republicans and most tea party members have stopped calling themselves patriots. The reason is too many self-labeled 'patriots' are gun-toting loony tunes, white supremacists, or both all wrapped up in one camo-wearing, straight-arm saluting pile of dung.


The media portrays them this way. Sane people don't want to be labeled as such so they run from it. That's the reason the media portrays them this way. They don't want anyone to associate themselves with patriots. The media along with the government are trying to make people associate disagreeing with the government with being a loony tunes. I think we need to avoid grouping people together and labeling them in any way. Each should be judged upon their own actions.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Dear KnitterfromNB, I'm sorry for the loss in your family. You are a kind soul to aid your MIL especially when she needs you so much. Thinking of you.


Thank you so very much!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Congress is doing its job. They are representing the people who elected them. Those on the right don't want the things that the president is trying to put into place. Our system was created so that one man could not come in and do things against the will of the people. Our government was supposed to be about individual rights. Those on the left wouldn't want a republican president to fundamentally change our nation any more than those on the right don't want a democrat to fundamentally change it. I know that you think congress is just being uncooperative, but in actuality they are representing the views of the republicans.
> 
> That said, republicans are conservative people. They don't like change. And they surely don't want the president to fundamentally change our country. They want things to return to the pure version that was intended by our founding fathers. Something both sides have in common is that we want the corruption and the crony capitalism to end. I wish that those of us on both sides could bring pressure upon our lawmakers to end the corruption. Until that is done, nothing else matters. Because both sides are beholden to special interests and neither side is doing what's best for the people.


Food for thought and discussion here. Thanks for your input.

Right now we seem to have more of an oligarchy than either a republic or a democracy. I would hope none of us would want a dictatorship, either slanted to the left or the right. I doubt a sincere Republican would want a Republican president to handle matters singlehandedly any more than they would want a Democratic president to do so. Our founders set up a three legged governmental structure to try to achieve a balance and keep us from a dictatorship.

It is almost like trying to shovel back tidal waters to try to get representatives who are not beholden to political bosses or monied sponsors. All I find I can do as one person is keep voting, particularly in primary and local elections, where there is a chance my opinion will have some impact. I have never missed an election, from the local fire district to the Presidential one. We have to try to stem the tide the best we each can.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> I think this is a topic we must agree to disagree on.


Haha! I agree with you.
See? We do agree occasionally.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Congress is doing its job. They are representing the people who elected them. Those on the right don't want the things that the president is trying to put into place. Our system was created so that one man could not come in and do things against the will of the people. Our government was supposed to be about individual rights. Those on the left wouldn't want a republican president to fundamentally change our nation any more than those on the right don't want a democrat to fundamentally change it. I know that you think congress is just being uncooperative, but in actuality they are representing the views of the republicans.
> 
> That said, republicans are conservative people. They don't like change. And they surely don't want the president to fundamentally change our country. They want things to return to the pure version that was intended by our founding fathers. Something both sides have in common is that we want the corruption and the crony capitalism to end. I wish that those of us on both sides could bring pressure upon our lawmakers to end the corruption. Until that is done, nothing else matters. Because both sides are beholden to special interests and neither side is doing what's best for the people.


I just don't believe that the people are being represented. There are many things that could be accomplished that I'll bet the majority of Americans would like to see done. As one example: our infrastructure in the US is starting to resemble that of a third world country. Why not fix it and put people to work?
Because the repubs don't like to spend the money? Anything that has the president or any Dem attached to it is automatically opposed. And don't forget, they admit to "just say no" where Obama is concerned. You think that's the will of the people? Obama was voted into office---TWICE. That was also the will of the people. Maybe there are things that need to change whether Repubs like it or not. The government is NOT just "for individual rights." Remember the COMMON GOOD? I think the Repubs want you to believe they're doing the will of the people. That's hogwash. Remember Grover Norquist? How many Congressmen are beholding to him instead of to the people?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Food for thought and discussion here. Thanks for your input.
> 
> Right now we seem to have more of an oligarchy than either a republic or a democracy. I would hope none of us would want a dictatorship, either slanted to the left or the right. I doubt a sincere Republican would want a Republican president to handle matters singlehandedly any more than they would want a Democratic president to do so. Our founders set up a three legged governmental structure to try to achieve a balance and keep us from a dictatorship.
> 
> ...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think we are getting mixed signals semantically. Patriots are people who believe in and support their government. They vote to try to get representatives who will provide a balanced government. The word patriot is not confined to conservative minded people. There are as high a percentage of liberal minded people who are true patriots. The goals, which should be our common goals to provide a regulated society that gives people freedom but not license, are approached with different philosophies.
> 
> But we cannot let the word patriot be hijacked and moved to the right rather than letting it stay a centrist definition of well intentioned citizens (and those who aspire for citizenship). I can think of no more sincere a patriot than my grandfather who came to America as a young adult seeking freedom from pogroms and a 25 year conscription into the Russian army. He worked long days, went to night school at Eastern District HS in Brooklyn to learn English and became a citizen as soon as his English abilities were acceptable. He was a union organizer (CIO) at a time when workers were mistreated in sweatshops. He was assaulted by management goons. And he was very liberal in his political opinions.
> 
> Extremists who attack the government and its leaders with violence are not patriots. They are domestic terrorists.


You're right! We shouldn't allow the word "patriot" to be hijacked. Generally speaking the media uses the term to describe right wing fanatics. We should all declare ourselves patriots.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sometimes I compare a particular individual to the herpes virus. Lurking invisibly then bursting out and causing pain and a rash. And there is no cure.
> 
> Ahahahaha!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Food for thought and discussion here. Thanks for your input.
> 
> Right now we seem to have more of an oligarchy than either a republic or a democracy. I would hope none of us would want a dictatorship, either slanted to the left or the right. I doubt a sincere Republican would want a Republican president to handle matters singlehandedly any more than they would want a Democratic president to do so. Our founders set up a three legged governmental structure to try to achieve a balance and keep us from a dictatorship.
> 
> It is almost like trying to shovel back tidal waters to try to get representatives who are not beholden to political bosses or monied sponsors. All I find I can do as one person is keep voting, particularly in primary and local elections, where there is a chance my opinion will have some impact. I have never missed an election, from the local fire district to the Presidential one. We have to try to stem the tide the best we each can.


This would make good discussion. I think that we are more alike than different. Alas, I must go and cook breakfast for my mil. Then try to fit more food in the fridge. You would not believe how much food people are bringing over. I'm inundated. All of our kids are coming back today as the visitation is tonight. I'm going to be very busy. I wish I could just stay here and escape. Ttyl! I really appreciate everyone's support.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> MarilynKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Food for thought and discussion here. Thanks for your input.
> ...


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This would make good discussion. I think that we are more alike than different. Alas, I must go and cook breakfast for my mil. Then try to fit more food in the fridge. You would not believe how much food people are bringing over. I'm inundated. All of our kids are coming back today as the visitation is tonight. I'm going to be very busy. I wish I could just stay here and escape. Ttyl! I really appreciate everyone's support.


Take care of yourself, too.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This would make good discussion. I think that we are more alike than different. Alas, I must go and cook breakfast for my mil. Then try to fit more food in the fridge. You would not believe how much food people are bringing over. I'm inundated. All of our kids are coming back today as the visitation is tonight. I'm going to be very busy. I wish I could just stay here and escape. Ttyl! I really appreciate everyone's support.


You have people who respect you here. At least you are willing to have a conversation. I hope everything goes well and when it settles down you can spend more time with us.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Sometimes I compare a particular individual to the herpes virus. Lurking invisibly then bursting out and causing pain and a rash. And there is no cure.
> 
> Shirley, keep on doing what you have always done. You walk the high road, bring us wonderful workshops to help us be better crafts people, and set an example of what a gracious person really is.
> 
> Hope the test results show that what ails you and brought you to be tested is benign and can be treated to restore you to comfort and excellent health.


Thankyou Marilyn. I slept well last night - things caught up and I was very down last night. I am feeling much better now and things are much more in perspective. It is a beautiful day and I don't have any tests until next week!!!! yeah!. I have been asked to do a talk on mixing different weight yarns in projects so am going to see what i can come up with and maybe add it to our conversation.

I appreciate the friends I have here -- they are honest in their opinions and true to themselves. that is all any of us can do.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think we are getting mixed signals semantically. Patriots are people who believe in and support their government. They vote to try to get representatives who will provide a balanced government. The word patriot is not confined to conservative minded people. There are as high a percentage of liberal minded people who are true patriots. The goals, which should be our common goals to provide a regulated society that gives people freedom but not license, are approached with different philosophies.
> 
> But we cannot let the word patriot be hijacked and moved to the right rather than letting it stay a centrist definition of well intentioned citizens (and those who aspire for citizenship). I can think of no more sincere a patriot than my grandfather who came to America as a young adult seeking freedom from pogroms and a 25 year conscription into the Russian army. He worked long days, went to night school at Eastern District HS in Brooklyn to learn English and became a citizen as soon as his English abilities were acceptable. He was a union organizer (CIO) at a time when workers were mistreated in sweatshops. He was assaulted by management goons. And he was very liberal in his political opinions.
> 
> Extremists who attack the government and its leaders with violence are not patriots. They are domestic terrorists.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Doesn't surprise me one bit.
> 
> Who posted? Must be having a senior moment.


Not sure now - her avatar showed she posted the link to my post. Maybe she posted it and left.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

OOpps.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> A Shark? The Rocket model looks very sleek?


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I think we are getting mixed signals semantically. Patriots are people who believe in and support their government. They vote to try to get representatives who will provide a balanced government. The word patriot is not confined to conservative minded people. There are as high a percentage of liberal minded people who are true patriots. The goals, which should be our common goals to provide a regulated society that gives people freedom but not license, are approached with different philosophies.
> 
> But we cannot let the word patriot be hijacked and moved to the right rather than letting it stay a centrist definition of well intentioned citizens (and those who aspire for citizenship). I can think of no more sincere a patriot than my grandfather who came to America as a young adult seeking freedom from pogroms and a 25 year conscription into the Russian army. He worked long days, went to night school at Eastern District HS in Brooklyn to learn English and became a citizen as soon as his English abilities were acceptable. He was a union organizer (CIO) at a time when workers were mistreated in sweatshops. He was assaulted by management goons. And he was very liberal in his political opinions.
> 
> Extremists who attack the government and its leaders with violence are not patriots. They are domestic terrorists.


Stop Making Sense!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Congress's current job approval rating is 13.4%, based on 5 polls by AP, CBS News. Fox News, The Economist and Gallup. I connect the job approval rating with how well we believe our members of Congress are representing their constituents. If more of us believed our members of Congress were representing us, the higher Congress's job approval rating would be. I think many members of Congress can't even spell the word constituent, let alone what they think representing their constituents means. Playing CYA, getting perks from lobbyists, etc., etc., are all more important to members of Congress than we, the people are. And I'm not even going to try to say anything about bipartisanship because I will rant and rave and foam at the mouth.


alcameron said:


> I just don't believe that the people are being represented. There are many things that could be accomplished that I'll bet the majority of Americans would like to see done. As one example: our infrastructure in the US is starting to resemble that of a third world country. Why not fix it and put people to work?
> Because the repubs don't like to spend the money? Anything that has the president or any Dem attached to it is automatically opposed. And don't forget, they admit to "just say no" where Obama is concerned. You think that's the will of the people? Obama was voted into office---TWICE. That was also the will of the people. Maybe there are things that need to change whether Repubs like it or not. The government is NOT just "for individual rights." Remember the COMMON GOOD? I think the Repubs want you to believe they're doing the will of the people. That's hogwash. Remember Grover Norquist? How many Congressmen are beholding to him instead of to the people?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Congress is doing its job. They are representing the people who elected them. Those on the right don't want the things that the president is trying to put into place. Our system was created so that one man could not come in and do things against the will of the people. Our government was supposed to be about individual rights. Those on the left wouldn't want a republican president to fundamentally change our nation any more than those on the right don't want a democrat to fundamentally change it. I know that you think congress is just being uncooperative, but in actuality they are representing the views of the republicans.
> 
> That said, republicans are conservative people. They don't like change. And they surely don't want the president to fundamentally change our country. They want things to return to the pure version that was intended by our founding fathers. Something both sides have in common is that we want the corruption and the crony capitalism to end. I wish that those of us on both sides could bring pressure upon our lawmakers to end the corruption. Until that is done, nothing else matters. Because both sides are beholden to special interests and neither side is doing what's best for the people.


I'd find your statement about Congress easier to believe if 1) the GOP leadership hadn't announced from the start that they would see to it that Obama was a one-term president and 2) the conservative majority on the Supreme Court didn't keep overturning settled law so that the GOP would have the upper hand in any election.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I just don't believe that the people are being represented. There are many things that could be accomplished that I'll bet the majority of Americans would like to see done. As one example: our infrastructure in the US is starting to resemble that of a third world country. Why not fix it and put people to work?
> Because the repubs don't like to spend the money? Anything that has the president or any Dem attached to it is automatically opposed. And don't forget, they admit to "just say no" where Obama is concerned. You think that's the will of the people? Obama was voted into office---TWICE. That was also the will of the people. Maybe there are things that need to change whether Repubs like it or not. The government is NOT just "for individual rights." Remember the COMMON GOOD? I think the Repubs want you to believe they're doing the will of the people. That's hogwash. Remember Grover Norquist? How many Congressmen are beholding to him instead of to the people?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Congress's current job approval rating is 13.4%, based on 5 polls by AP, CBS News. Fox News, The Economist and Gallup. I connect the job approval rating with how well we believe our members of Congress are representing their constituents. If more of us believed our members of Congress were representing us, the higher Congress's job approval rating would be. I think many members of Congress can't even spell the word constituent, let alone what they think representing their constituents means. Playing CYA, getting perks from lobbyists, etc., etc., are all more important to members of Congress than we, the people are. And I'm not even going to try to say anything about bipartisanship because I will rant and rave and foam at the mouth.


which would be the reasonable response!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> A Shark? The Rocket model looks very sleek?


Only if it's cordless. Imagine flying a corded model, lol.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Only if it's cordless. Imagine flying a corded model, lol.


The extension cords alone would break you.

:roll: :roll: :roll:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Congress's current job approval rating is 13.4%, based on 5 polls by AP, CBS News. Fox News, The Economist and Gallup. I connect the job approval rating with how well we believe our members of Congress are representing their constituents. If more of us believed our members of Congress were representing us, the higher Congress's job approval rating would be. I think many members of Congress can't even spell the word constituent, let alone what they think representing their constituents means. Playing CYA, getting perks from lobbyists, etc., etc., are all more important to members of Congress than we, the people are. And I'm not even going to try to say anything about bipartisanship because I will rant and rave and foam at the mouth.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'd find your statement about Congress easier to believe if 1) the GOP leadership hadn't announced from the start that they would see to it that Obama was a one-term president and 2) the conservative majority on the Supreme Court didn't keep overturning settled law so that the GOP would have the upper hand in any election.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> A link was posted on the 'friendly thread' which I posted a while ago to KPG
> 
> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-262935-61.html#5426126
> 
> ...


It's pretty obvious that KPG isn't the only one that needs to let it go. What was your purpose of bringing it onto another thread other than stirring the pot? You claim to be just so sweet and kind and hate all the nastiness. Yet here you are dragging baggage from one thread to another just to stick the knife in further and twist it. One needs a shovel to aid in read your posts. You are some piece of work Shirley.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Absolutely I agree. Criminals will always manage to get their guns if they are determined. I imagine a huge black market of guns on every tough neighborhood's corner. Nope, I don't own a gun but I have a sturdy mop handle. I can carry that if we ever make it to Soho.


That's true. All the gun laws that have been passed have been aimed at law abiding citizens and they comply. Those that don't respect the law will obtain any kind of firearm they can buy, steal, borrow, or manufacture on their own.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It's pretty obvious that KPG isn't the only one that needs to let it go. What was your purpose of bringing it onto another thread other than stirring the pot? You claim to be just so sweet and kind and hate all the nastiness. Yet here you are dragging baggage from one thread to another just to stick the knife in further and twist it. One needs a shovel to aid in read your posts. You are some piece of work Shirley.


She brought it here because it originated on this thread and had no business being posted on Neutral Bridges, as KPG did. You ought to hold off on your insults until you know what's going on. But you're not really interested in what's going on, are you? You just spend time combing through messages until you find the one you can complain about, and then start calling names. But you're never negative, are you?


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks Purl -- it is useless


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Purl -- it is useless - she doesn't want to know what really happened - solowaygirl is not interested in the fact that I had apologized for that post ages ago and why. Neither was KPG - She still posted it on Neutral Bridges in order to help try and sink the thread - and then pouted and quit.


I noticed. These women seem to form friendships on the basis of political leanings, which I find odd. If you don't agree with their Obama-hatred, you're fair game for any kind of name-calling. And then they claim that it was they who had been abused.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

I have been seeing emails about Target and open carrying. The pics are laughable if it wasn't all so scary.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I have been seeing emails about Target and open carrying. The pics are laughable if it wasn't all so scary.


I've always liked Target, but I may have to stop going there. I've already crossed Walmart off my list. What's left?


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She brought it here because it originated on this thread and had no business being posted on Neutral Bridges, as KPG did. You ought to hold off on your insults until you know what's going on. But you're not really interested in what's going on, are you? You just spend time combing through messages until you find the one you can complain about, and then start calling names. But you're never negative, are you?


"As KPG did"...?

KPG brought nothing to NB but two posts; one concerning colonoscopies and the other informing someone from out of the country of the four primary health care programs in this country.

After that you all tore into her as if she was some kind of terrorist and needed to be destroyed.

Designer scolded her on NB...and KPG responded to the scolding on NB.

Say what you will about KPG, but keep it straight and keep it honest!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> I've always liked Target, but I may have to stop going there. I've already crossed Walmart off my list. What's left?


In Manhattan we have none of those stores and we certainly manage to shop.


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## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'd find your statement about Congress easier to believe if 1) the GOP leadership hadn't announced from the start that they would see to it that Obama was a one-term president and 2) the conservative majority on the Supreme Court didn't keep overturning settled law so that the GOP would have the upper hand in any election.


I don't come on ere very often but I believe he members of congress are not doing the will of the people. What they are doing is the agenda of their respective parties which to me is self serving.you could have something that would help every one but if it was contrary to party beliefs you will never see it, and this is both parties.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

karverr said:


> I don't come on ere very often but I believe he members of congress are not doing the will of the people. What they are doing is the agenda of their respective parties which to me is self serving.you could have something that would help every one but if it was contrary to party beliefs you will never see it, and this is both parties.


You would have an uphill battle convincing me the members of congress are doing anything other than dancing to the piping of corporation lobbyists.


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## karverr (Jun 27, 2013)

Mountain Stitches said:


> You would have an uphill battle convincing me the members of congress are doing anything other than dancing to the piping of corporation lobbyists.


Who do you think supports the parties with big money???


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Seems like both sides have a representative who believe that the 1% are in control of both the political parties and Congress. And unless we are in that 1%, what good does it do us if we are so busy fighting amongst ourselves? All our anger should be directed elsewhere - to the real Powers that are messing with all our lives for their benefit.


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## Mountain Stitches (May 25, 2014)

karverr said:


> Who do you think supports the parties with big money???


Not me or mine lol


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> "As KPG did"...?
> 
> KPG brought nothing to NB but two posts; one concerning colonoscopies and the other informing someone from out of the country of the four primary health care programs in this country.
> 
> ...


You missed a couple of others of her messages. First was this, meant for Designer:

General Chit-Chat (non-knitting talk) -> Neutral Bridges (go to message)	Jun 10, 14 18:14:09


Designer1234 said:


> As I said above-- it is sad for her and her friends.
> 
> Just so you know, no insults or unkindness was meant on my part -- she just wouldn't accept that.


http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-262935-61.html#5426126
<end of KPG's message>

The link was to a message Designer had written on WOW, not NB, and she responded that she would discuss it in WOW. When she did, Solow went after her for moving it from NB to WOW.
And when I respond to that, you come after me implying that I'm not "straight and honest."

I won't bother about the two other messages KPG posted because they weren't serious. But I wonder about all of you: You *never* even notice the way KPG insults us, lies about us, even slanders us. How do those things evade your vision, but you can catch my _relevant_ response, which is not even an insult, and claim it's not straight or honest?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> In Manhattan we have none of those stores and we certainly manage to shop.


We have a Target, though I've never been there. It's near the Costco, which I've also never been to.

But in Manhattan those gun-nuts wouldn't have been permitted in any store, or even on a sidewalk, with their guns.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

karverr said:


> I don't come on ere very often but I believe he members of congress are not doing the will of the people. What they are doing is the agenda of their respective parties which to me is self serving.you could have something that would help every one but if it was contrary to party beliefs you will never see it, and this is both parties.


Karverr, I think you're absolutely right. They should all be tarred and feathered.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> I've always liked Target, but I may have to stop going there. I've already crossed Walmart off my list. What's left?


I bet with enough letters to the corporation, Target will be forced to keep "open carriers" out of the store.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-262935-61.html#5426126
> <end of KPG's message>
> 
> The link was to a message Designer had written on WOW, not NB, and she responded that she would discuss it in WOW. When she did, Solow went after her for moving it from NB to WOW.
> ...


Okay PP...I don't want to get into unraveling everything again. I don't agree that with all you say regarding lies, slanders, and insults since none of you acknowledge the lies, slanders, and insults that are posted or condoned from your side.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

karverr said:


> I don't come on ere very often but I believe he members of congress are not doing the will of the people. What they are doing is the agenda of their respective parties which to me is self serving.you could have something that would help every one but if it was contrary to party beliefs you will never see it, and this is both parties.


Karverr, I agree with you. I'm sure there are things that the majority of people in the US could agree to. And then there are other things on which we'd never see eye to eye! Maybe we should run for Congress!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Okay PP...I don't want to get into unraveling everything again. I don't agree that with all you say regarding lies, slanders, and insults since none of you acknowledge the lies, slanders, and insults that are posted or condoned from your side.


We would be happy to, if you point them out.

What you tried to point out in my message was shown to be correct. I would at least expect you to admit that I was "straight and honest" and not making anything up.

I really didn't expect my question to be answered - it deals with what appears to be an unconscious reaction. You know, like your not recognizing anti-Semitism in the message that was posted about me and my husband, when it was clear as day.

And if you aren't nice to me, I'm going to take back the applauding audience I gave you on NB. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Okay PP...I don't want to get into unraveling everything again. I don't agree that with all you say regarding lies, slanders, and insults since none of you acknowledge the lies, slanders, and insults that are posted or condoned from your side.


I didn't see that cartoon until now. It's hilarious. You may keep your audience.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I didn't see that cartoon until now. It's hilarious. You may keep your audience.


The "unraveling" was unintended but was pretty good, eh?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> The "unraveling" was unintended but was pretty good, eh?


I didn't even catch that connection. Yes, pretty good, indeed.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

karverr said:


> I don't come on ere very often but I believe he members of congress are not doing the will of the people. What they are doing is the agenda of their respective parties which to me is self serving.you could have something that would help every one but if it was contrary to party beliefs you will never see it, and this is both parties.


You seem to have hit the nail on the head. My husband says the two parties are two sides of one coin, and are having a party all right, at the expense of the people they were elected to represent.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Okay PP...I don't want to get into unraveling everything again. I don't agree that with all you say regarding lies, slanders, and insults since none of you acknowledge the lies, slanders, and insults that are posted or condoned from your side.


I am acknowledging and have acknowledged that there are people on both sides who have no interest at all in having a conversation. Most of us do want a conversation and yet we still want to be able to defend our position. That is why SQM started the new topic. It was working until ACA was brought up which is a point of disagreement.

Neutral Bridges was set up so that we can get away from Political 
disagreements --

There are people on both sides who seem to enjoy the fighting there are a group of people on both sides who don't enjoy it. There has been a lot of hurt and nastiness on both sides- including from me and I have left two or three times because of things I have regretted and the hurt I have felt

I applaud everyone who joins us and keeps the faith as far as our posts over there are concerned. Hope to see you and other D and P people there - it is going very well and we are getting to know each other.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

This is the one area where bipartisanship is alive and very well.


Mountain Stitches said:


> You would have an uphill battle convincing me the members of congress are doing anything other than dancing to the piping of corporation lobbyists.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> This is the one area where bipartisanship is alive and very well.


And yet they can't agree on anything.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

Well, they got one thing done yesterday. While everyone was all in an uproar about Cantor's defeat, the Senate quietly pushed through the bill for VA increases. The vote was 93 in favor. Bipartisanship raised its head a fraction but will quickly sink back down...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> "As KPG did"...?
> 
> KPG brought nothing to NB but two posts; one concerning colonoscopies and the other informing someone from out of the country of the four primary health care programs in this country.
> 
> ...


Thank you Gerslay. Keeping things straight and honest are not on PP's list of things to do. She accuses others of jumping in just to be negative and often doesn't have a clue herself that that is exactly what she does.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> In Manhattan we have none of those stores and we certainly manage to shop.


Isn't there something in Manhattan's by-laws that prohibits any big box stores from building in the city? Do you have supermarkets, like Safeway, Kroger, Hub, etc., there or are they just in the suburbs or other boroughs?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks Purl -- it is useless


It wasn't about the post you apologized for. It was about letting the nastiness go. You are the one that went on and on about it, yet can't seem to let it go. Maybe KPG shouldn't have posted what she did, but at that point, you and your friends shouldn't have pounced on her. That was the time to let it go, not bring it to another thread to continue an old argument. You should have been the bigger person and said no, let it be.

Yes you are right, it is useless. You won't see it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I noticed. These women seem to form friendships on the basis of political leanings, which I find odd. If you don't agree with their Obama-hatred, you're fair game for any kind of name-calling. And then they claim that it was they who had been abused.


How odd. Why would anyone form a friendship over similar interests? Going by that logic, no friendships were ever formed through sports, music, art, etc. Sounds like you have missed out on a lot of friendships over the years.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> It wasn't about the post you apologized for. It was about letting the nastiness go. You are the one that went on and on about it, yet can't seem to let it go. Maybe KPG shouldn't have posted what she did, but at that point, you and your friends shouldn't have pounced on her. That was the time to let it go, not bring it to another thread to continue an old argument. You should have been the bigger person and said no, let it be.
> 
> Yes you are right, it is useless. You won't see it.


soloweygirl
and why aren't you letting it go? It is folks like you who keep the snake winding through every thread and then you wonder that some of us respond, me being one of them.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> How odd. Why would anyone form a friendship over similar interests? Going by that logic, no friendships were ever formed through sports, music, art, etc. Sounds like you have missed out on a lot of friendships over the years.


soloweygirl
you don't read well, comprehend poorly. Our friendships are build on many grounds and quite lasting. Our interests are vast, Politics is just a side-line.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> And yet they can't agree on anything.


Poor Purl
ever listen to the Hearings on C-Span? Yikes, those folks are poor Entertainers.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> Well, they got one thing done yesterday. While everyone was all in an uproar about Cantor's defeat, the Senate quietly pushed through the bill for VA increases. The vote was 93 in favor. Bipartisanship raised its head a fraction but will quickly sink back down...


I think the House passed one, too, so maybe there's a compromise coming.
Maybe?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't there something in Manhattan's by-laws that prohibits any big box stores from building in the city? Do you have supermarkets, like Safeway, Kroger, Hub, etc., there or are they just in the suburbs or other boroughs?


The cost of retail per square foot is astronomical and there is limited big spaces available. Manhattan is different from the other boros. In the other boros you will find larger grocery stores but in Manhattan proper, they exist in every area but on a different scale than in the 'burbs.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> It wasn't about the post you apologized for. It was about letting the nastiness go. You are the one that went on and on about it, yet can't seem to let it go. Maybe KPG shouldn't have posted what she did, but at that point, you and your friends shouldn't have pounced on her. That was the time to let it go, not bring it to another thread to continue an old argument. You should have been the bigger person and said no, let it be.
> 
> Yes you are right, it is useless. You won't see it.


KPG sent an altered message of mine using my name. How she did it I don't know. But there it was with different names mentioned in it than what I originally wrote. That was creepy.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you Gerslay. Keeping things straight and honest are not on PP's list of things to do. She accuses others of jumping in just to be negative and often doesn't have a clue herself that that is exactly what she does.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Isn't there something in Manhattan's by-laws that prohibits any big box stores from building in the city? Do you have supermarkets, like Safeway, Kroger, Hub, etc., there or are they just in the suburbs or other boroughs?


Have you really never been to New York? Kind of provincial, aren't you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How odd. Why would anyone form a friendship over similar interests? Going by that logic, no friendships were ever formed through sports, music, art, etc. Sounds like you have missed out on a lot of friendships over the years.


Sure I've missed out on friendships with people who would call me names because I voted for the wrong candidate. Never had such a friend, never missed one. But there your logic fails (who would have guessed?) because politics is nothing like music or sports or art; or, what I think is a more important basis for friendship, the ability to speak interestingly and to show an interest in others. My husband and I don't even have the same view of politics, yet somehow we manage to enjoy each other's company.

Sounds like your friendships are kind of shallow.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The cost of retail per square foot is astronomical and there is limited big spaces available. Manhattan is different from the other boros. In the other boros you will find larger grocery stores but in Manhattan proper, they exist in every area but on a different scale than in the 'burbs.


Ever been to Fairway?

And for the third time, there are both a Target and a Costco in Manhattan, so please don't keep telling people there aren't.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Ever been to Fairway?
> 
> And for the third time, there are both a Target and a Costco in Manhattan, so please don't keep telling people there aren't.


Afo ha Target v' ha Costco b' New York?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Afo ha Target v' ha Costco b' New York?


Up around 115th St. or maybe 120th, right near the FDR Drive.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Oh. advantage PP because she is a life-long Manhattanite and I have only been here 33 years.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oh. advantage PP because she is a life-long Manhattanite and I have only been here 33 years.


I'm not a life-long Manhattanite. I was born here, and I expect to die here, but for the first 6 years of marriage we lived in Queens. Have you really been here 33 years?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not a life-long Manhattanite. I was born here, and I expect to die here, but for the first 6 years of marriage we lived in Queens. Have you really been here 33 years?


33-12 for Westchester =


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

But we can all agree that they are worthless. And normally, we don't agree at all.



Poor Purl said:


> And yet they can't agree on anything.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

At least we've learned what it takes to rouse the lazy bunch.



sumpleby said:


> Well, they got one thing done yesterday. While everyone was all in an uproar about Cantor's defeat, the Senate quietly pushed through the bill for VA increases. The vote was 93 in favor. Bipartisanship raised its head a fraction but will quickly sink back down...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> 33-12 for Westchester =


Plenty.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> But we can all agree that they are worthless. And normally, we don't agree at all.


Rita Hayworth. Poor woman.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> At least we've learned what it takes to rouse the lazy bunch.


Oh! You are stunning. Who are you this evening? Lauren Bacall?

I missed you as a starlet.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Indeed she was. I always thought she was lovely looking but I don't think she had much happiness in her life.....but she had RED HAIR, natural or otherwise....my favorite.



Poor Purl said:


> Rita Hayworth. Poor woman.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Rita Hayworth. Purl got it right away. I always thought she was so beautiful.....but she was cursed with unhappiness....multiple marriages, died of Alzheimer's. Let's just give her a good send off tonight.



SQM said:


> Oh! You are stunning. Who are you this evening? Lauren Bacall?
> 
> I missed you as a starlet.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Rita Hayworth. Poor woman.


Why Poor Woman? If I am recalling correctly, when I was living on the Upper West, I met her daughter - Princess Jasmine???????? She was devoting her time and place to nursing her mom as RH was losing it to Alzheimer's. RH was well cared for at the end.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why Poor Woman? If I am recalling correctly, when I was living on the Upper West, I met her daughter - Princess Jasmine???????? She was devoting her time and place to nursing her mom as RH was losing it to Alzheimer's. RH was well cared for at the end.


"Poor woman" just because she had Alzheimer's. That's enough to get anyone that title.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

alcameron said:


> "Poor woman" just because she had Alzheimer's. That's enough to get anyone that title.


yeah it is a bad disease, but she was cared for by her daughter in beautiful surroundings. I wish that on all of us.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah it is a bad disease, but she was cared for by her daughter in beautiful surroundings. I wish that on all of us.


--I'd like it better without the Alzheimer's!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Indeed she was. I always thought she was lovely looking but I don't think she had much happiness in her life.....but she had RED HAIR, natural or otherwise....my favorite.


She was stunning, and her smile was like nobody else's. I think her hair was natural. She was a wonderful dancer, too. But her choice of men was so bad. Orson Welles, Dick Haymes (who took her money and beat her), Aly Khan (who at least gave her the daughter who cared for her) - were there others?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah it is a bad disease, but she was cared for by her daughter in beautiful surroundings. I wish that on all of us.


It's worth nothing if you have Alzheimer's. I wouldn't wish that on anyone even if they got to live at Buckingham Palace.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I agree, my sister is slowly leaving us with alzheimers -- each month she leaves us a little more. It is a dreadful disease and sooo hard on the family. In this case her family is loving and kind to her - Her daughter takes her out for lunch every single Sunday - and Most time my sister doesn't remember it but she does in in case she will remember. 

She called me l2 times in 5 hours for my birthday and had no memory of calling before. Soo sad.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree, my sister is slowly leaving us with alzheimers -- each month she leaves us a little more. It is a dreadful disease and sooo hard on the family. In this case her family is loving and kind to her - Her daughter takes her out for lunch every single Sunday - and Most time my sister doesn't remember it but she does in in case she will remember.
> 
> She called me l2 times in 5 hours for my birthday and had no memory of calling before. Soo sad.


It's sad. The person you knew just isn't there anymore.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well cared for? Yes. But her mind was gone and her health perilous.



SQM said:


> Why Poor Woman? If I am recalling correctly, when I was living on the Upper West, I met her daughter - Princess Jasmine???????? She was devoting her time and place to nursing her mom as RH was losing it to Alzheimer's. RH was well cared for at the end.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Is the avatar Lucy? Adorable. Don't tell Hiro. He's handsome too.



alcameron said:


> --I'd like it better without the Alzheimer's!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I agree Purl. Many people fear Alzheimer's as much as others fear cancer. Health is such a precious thing.



Poor Purl said:


> It's worth nothing if you have Alzheimer's. I wouldn't wish that on anyone even if they got to live at Buckingham Palace.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree, my sister is slowly leaving us with alzheimers -- each month she leaves us a little more. It is a dreadful disease and sooo hard on the family. In this case her family is loving and kind to her - Her daughter takes her out for lunch every single Sunday - and Most time my sister doesn't remember it but she does in in case she will remember.
> 
> She called me l2 times in 5 hours for my birthday and had no memory of calling before. Soo sad.


I'm sorry to hear this. We went through something like this with my mother in law; it was as though her brain could not retain anything new, even for five minutes. It's terrible to watch someone fade away like this.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

An interesting op-ed column in Thursday's NYTimes. Those who think there's no disparity between men's pay and women's should think again.

*She Gets No Respect*
Sexism Persists, Even Among the Enlightened
by Nicholas Kristof
JUNE 11, 2014

Heres a riddle: Why would a Hurricane Alexandra be deadlier than an identical Hurricane Alexander?

Because females dont get respect. Not even 100 mile-per-hour typhoons, if theyre dubbed with female names.

Researchers find that female-named hurricanes kill about twice as many people as similar male-named hurricanes because some people underestimate them. Americans expect male hurricanes to be violent and deadly, but they mistake female hurricanes as dainty or wimpish and dont take adequate precautions.

The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, underscored how unconscious biases shape our behavior  even when were unaware of them.

Researchers examined the most damaging hurricanes between 1950 and 2012, excluding a couple of outliers like Katrina in 2005. They found that female-named storms killed an average of 45 people, while similar hurricanes with male names killed about half as many.

The authors of the study, Kiju Jung and others at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and Arizona State University, also conducted experiments asking people to predict the intensity and riskiness of a hurricane. When asked about a male hurricane, like Alexander, people predicted a more violent storm than when asked about a female hurricane, like Alexandra.

Likewise, research subjects were more willing to evacuate to avoid Hurricane Victor than when it was Hurricane Victoria. The more masculine the name, the more respect the hurricane drew. The researchers estimated that changing the name of a hurricane from Charley to Eloise could nearly triple the death toll.

Women were as likely as men to disrespect female hurricanes.

We often assume that racism or sexism is primarily about in-your-face bigots or misogynists, but research in the last couple of decades  capped by this hurricane study  shows that the larger problem is unconscious bias even among well-meaning, enlightened people who embrace principles of equality.

This affects the candidates we vote for, the employees we hire, the people we do business with. I suspect unconscious bias has been far more of a factor for President Obama than overt racism and will also be a challenge for Hillary Rodham Clinton if she runs for president again.

Its a mistake to assume that gender bias is only or mainly about misogynists, said Susan Fiske, a psychology professor at Princeton University and the editor of the hurricane study. Much gender bias is more automatic, ambiguous and ambivalent than people typically assume.

Gender bias is not mostly about I hate them, I hate them,  she added. A lot of it is about I cherish them because they are nice, even if incompetent and needing protection. 

Yale researchers contacted science professors at major research universities and asked them to evaluate an application from a (mythical) recent graduate for a laboratory position. The professors received a one-page summary of the candidate, who in some versions was John and in others Jennifer.

On a scale of 1 to 7, with 7 the highest, the professors rated John an average of 4, and Jennifer a 3.3. On average, the professors suggested a salary for Jennifer of $26,508, and $30,328 for John. Professors were more willing to mentor John than Jennifer. The professors assessments were unrelated to their own age or gender.

Other studies have reached similar conclusions, often by sending out identical résumés for job applicants  some with a female name and some with a male name. The male versions do better.

For example, evaluators assess the C.V. of Brian Miller as stronger than that of an identical Karen Miller. Stanford Business School students who read about Heidi rate her more power-hungry and self-promoting than those who read about an otherwise identical Howard.

While virtually all voters say today that they would vote for a qualified woman for president (only 30 percent said so in 1930), experiments by Cecilia Hyunjong Mo of Vanderbilt University suggest that in practice people favor male candidates because they associate men with leadership.

Professor Mo found that people, when asked to make pairs of images, have no trouble doing so with male names and words like president or governor. But some struggle to do so quickly with female names, and those people are more likely to vote for male candidates.

There appears to be a gulf between our conscious ideals of equality and our unconscious tendency to discriminate at the ballot box, Mo writes.

I suspect that unconscious biases shape everything from salary discrimination to the lackadaisical way many universities handle rape cases. They also help explain why only 4.8 percent of Fortune 500 C.E.O.s and 18.5 percent of members of Congress are women.

This deep bias is as elusive as it is pernicious, but a start is to confront and discuss it. Perhaps hurricanes, by catching us out, can help us face our own chauvinism.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> Indeed she was. I always thought she was lovely looking but I don't think she had much happiness in her life.....but she had RED HAIR, natural or otherwise....my favorite.


I think the only really good in her life was her younger daughter, Yasmin. When that beautiful Rita developed early onset Alzheimer's Yasmin was the one who took care of her and saw to it that her short life was as good as it could be.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

She Gets No Respect
Sexism Persists, Even Among the Enlightened

Purl, thanks for sending this op-ed. 

I have a cousin who is a noted scholar in her field, and the discriminations she has suffered in her career are maddening. She had to threaten her adviser at a major university with a law suit to finally be awarded her PhD. He was plagiarizing all her research. It didn't take long for her to catch on and she documented it all. At the time there was no date stamping on the PC, but she had every paper she wrote notarized before she submitted it to her committee. 

Throughout her career she has had to fight for teaching positions, for grants to continue her research, for top level students to conduct the research, you name it. It cost her her marriage to an "enlightened" fellow professor who couldn't handle her supremacy in her field.

It was Ginger Rogers who said she could do everything Fred can but she did it backwards and in high heels.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I thought you all might be interested that the New Premier of Ontario (one of our largest Provinces population wise, and certainly the hub of many of Canada's businesses etc.) Is a woman who led a minority Government but last night was elected to lead a majority Government. She also happens to be Gay. We have come a long way. 

She is smart, funny, a hard worker and a Liberal. The Unions backed her and I think she is so dedicated that lots who were sitting on the fence voted for her. Her hands were tied quite a lot because of the fact she lead a minority Government and I think they decided that they wanted someone who wasn't held back by the opposition. Interesting election.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> She Gets No Respect
> Sexism Persists, Even Among the Enlightened
> 
> Purl, thanks for sending this op-ed.
> ...


Your cousin's story is far from unusual. Her adviser's stealing her ideas must have been maddening, and it's good that she figured out how to stop it.

No matter how much talk there is about equal pay, it just isn't.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I thought you all might be interested that the New Premier of Ontario (one of our largest Provinces population wise, and certainly the hub of many of Canada's businesses etc.) Is a woman who led a minority Government but last night was elected to lead a majority Government. She also happens to be Gay. We have come a long way.
> 
> She is smart, funny, a hard worker and a Liberal. The Unions backed her and I think she is so dedicated that lots who were sitting on the fence voted for her. Her hands were tied quite a lot because of the fact she lead a minority Government and I think they decided that they wanted someone who wasn't held back by the opposition. Interesting election.


Good luck to her!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> An interesting op-ed column in Thursday's NYTimes. Those who think there's no disparity between men's pay and women's should think again.
> 
> *She Gets No Respect*
> Sexism Persists, Even Among the Enlightened
> ...


I heard a report on this topic on NPR the other day. Hard to believe this is still going on in our day and harder to believe that we all have gender bias whether or not we're aware of it . . .war on women


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It's sad. The person you knew just isn't there anymore.


Re alzheimers:

The personality changes too. It is rather interesting - I am in Alberta she is in Ottawa but she trusts me and when she gets upset and confused she phones me -- she has a big card beside her phone with my number on it. She didn't know her son's last name when she called me last week. However she knew she loved him. She has never forgotten my name and she goes through periods when she thinks her children are 'telling her what to do and who do they think they are? and why are they taking my money etc. So she phones me in a state and usually I can calm her down and get her off the subject. It is so tragic. I have read everything I can find on alzheimers and dimensia and the personalithy changes are something I was not prepared for.

The family is really having a hard time as she is not the same person and not all of them agree that she needs to be kept safe - she has never tried to leave or wander but it is quite possible that she will. Her oldest son who lives in the west, refuses to accept that she is in a state of dimentia. She seems to be fine as long as you are careful about what to discuss with her. He is in BC and won't acknowledge it. I finally phoned him (we are quite close) and as my Mother used to say, I 'talked turkey " to him and told him he was making it so hard on his sister and brother who are dealing with it every day. I also suggested that as he can afford it he could go down and be there for her for a couple of weeks and give them a break. His daughter is there so he actually did -

They don't realize that it is the disease that is talking when she gets angry and verbally abusive - but more and more we are losing her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> KPG sent an altered message of mine using my name. How she did it I don't know. But there it was with different names mentioned in it than what I originally wrote. That was creepy.


SQM
KPG is a master in cut and paste and using the writings of others.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

I am going to go and make some banana nut and raisin loaf for us today. Pat loves it and I have done very little baking recently so I had better get something made up and frozen. 

I will be gone next week on the l7th and l8th for a non treadmill stress test - which requires two days -- I have to go the first day and there is an injection, then I do as much activity as I can for two hours (not treadmill though) and they check the heart. Then the next day I have to 'rest' for two hours and it gives them a pretty good view of what is happening with my heart. That is it until the 4th when I wear a holter moniter for 24 hours - which sends my heart function picture to the hospital and they can see if there are any changed doing idfferent activities -- then I have a lower GI on the 8th. Sheesh!

Then we will have to visit all the doctors and find out what is wrong and what needs to be done. Good thoughts would be appreciated. We are just ticking off one test at a time.

DH is fine though thank heavens as he has so much more prep for any tests as he is on coumadin (warfarin) and that is a hassle. He has another lower GI coming up and though there isn't any cancer, he does have a flat polyp for those who might be medically knowledgeable and only 2 people are trained to remove them. They are strongly urging him to get it done as it is possibly pre cancerous. We arenot too worried about that one. So life is not dull around here.

Oops, thought I was on the other thread NB -- Sorry everyone!


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> An interesting op-ed column in Thursday's NYTimes. Those who think there's no disparity between men's pay and women's should think again.
> 
> *She Gets No Respect*
> Sexism Persists, Even Among the Enlightened
> ...


Poor Purl
Thank you for the enlightening report. I like to think that the gender bias applies mainly to the older generation and have hopes that that will bring about changes down the road.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Thank you for the enlightening report. I like to think that the gender bias applies mainly to the older generation and have hopes that that will bring about changes down the road.


I hope so but it is hard as families pass down their feelings about many different things -- If a child has been shown and told that a woman is not as important as a man , or if parents are racist - even without being aware themselves that they are, it has a huge effect on how a child feels about those things. We have come a long way but I think it will be a long long time before feelings change about a lot of things.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll be watching and wishing her and all her constituents well.



Designer1234 said:


> I thought you all might be interested that the New Premier of Ontario (one of our largest Provinces population wise, and certainly the hub of many of Canada's businesses etc.) Is a woman who led a minority Government but last night was elected to lead a majority Government. She also happens to be Gay. We have come a long way.
> 
> She is smart, funny, a hard worker and a Liberal. The Unions backed her and I think she is so dedicated that lots who were sitting on the fence voted for her. Her hands were tied quite a lot because of the fact she lead a minority Government and I think they decided that they wanted someone who wasn't held back by the opposition. Interesting election.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I always put myself in their shoes.....confused....afraid....not knowing whom to trust. Such a horrible disease.



Designer1234 said:


> Re alzheimers:
> 
> The personality changes too. It is rather interesting - I am in Alberta she is in Ottawa but she trusts me and when she gets upset and confused she phones me -- she has a big card beside her phone with my number on it. She didn't know her son's last name when she called me last week. However she knew she loved him. She has never forgotten my name and she goes through periods when she thinks her children are 'telling her what to do and who do they think they are? and why are they taking my money etc. So she phones me in a state and usually I can calm her down and get her off the subject. It is so tragic. I have read everything I can find on alzheimers and dimensia and the personalithy changes are something I was not prepared for.
> 
> ...


----------



## peacegoddess (Jan 28, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> I hope so but it is hard as families pass down their feelings about many different things -- If a child has been shown and told that a woman is not as important as a man , or if parents are racist - even without being aware themselves that they are, it has a huge effect on how a child feels about those things. We have come a long way but I think it will be a long long time before feelings change about a lot of things.


Many of the younger generation in most areas of the U S are pretty hip to most issues concerning race, gender, and other human rights issues. We have made strides. Although we still have a long way to go to have gender pay parity and gender equality in politics.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Glad to hear from you on any thread any time. hugs



Designer1234 said:


> I am going to go and make some banana nut and raisin loaf for us today. Pat loves it and I have done very little baking recently so I had better get something made up and frozen.
> 
> I will be gone next week on the l7th and l8th for a non treadmill stress test - which requires two days -- I have to go the first day and there is an injection, then I do as much activity as I can for two hours (not treadmill though) and they check the heart. Then the next day I have to 'rest' for two hours and it gives them a pretty good view of what is happening with my heart. That is it until the 4th when I wear a holter moniter for 24 hours - which sends my heart function picture to the hospital and they can see if there are any changed doing idfferent activities -- then I have a lower GI on the 8th. Sheesh!
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Glad to hear from you on any thread any time. hugs


so nice of you to say that! thanks friend! I have been knitting a swatch for the color conversation, making breakfast for my husband, posting here and trying to eat my breakfast at the computer. Small wonder I am a bit weird this morning!1 Slow down Shirley!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> KPG is a master in cut and paste and using the writings of others.


A little bit of a computer Monsterette. It was totally unnerving. Have to admit I did pm the Ostrich. I hate tattling because I am a trouble-maker but this crossed a line. Dangerous. And also sad.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I am going to go and make some banana nut and raisin loaf for us today. Pat loves it and I have done very little baking recently so I had better get something made up and frozen.


What a good idea. We have a few too many bananas around here today.



> DH is fine though thank heavens as he has so much more prep for any tests as he is on coumadin (warfarin) and that is a hassle. He has another lower GI coming up and though there isn't any cancer, he does have a flat polyp for those who might be medically knowledgeable and only 2 people are trained to remove them. They are strongly urging him to get it done as it is possibly pre cancerous. We arenot too worried about that one. So life is not dull around here.


It seems that the longer we live, the more life consists of doctor's visits.

Does your husband have atrial fibrillation? There are newer blood thinners that don't need all the care that coumadin needs; my husband takes eliquis (apixaban, or something like that).



> Oops, thought I was on the other thread NB -- Sorry everyone!


Don't be sorry. NB seems to be the only really strict thread. In all the other, anything goes, at least until someone asks "Why are we discussing this in a knitting forum?"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Thank you for the enlightening report. I like to think that the gender bias applies mainly to the older generation and have hopes that that will bring about changes down the road.


Huck, I would also like to think that, but I don't. Bias is hard to root out and change.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Slow down before you feed the computer your breakfast?



Designer1234 said:


> so nice of you to say that! thanks friend! I have been knitting a swatch for the color conversation, making breakfast for my husband, posting here and trying to eat my breakfast at the computer. Small wonder I am a bit weird this morning!1 Slow down Shirley!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Your cousin's story is far from unusual. Her adviser's stealing her ideas must have been maddening, and it's good that she figured out how to stop it.
> 
> No matter how much talk there is about equal pay, it just isn't.


I sent her the op ed article and got back a reply including

"One of my colleagues has made her name studying implicit bias....tis really amazing. There's a website she has where you can test yourself...tis amazing how biased we are even when we profess not to be. There are studies with babies that the experimenter calls "Chris" (neutral name), wrapping the same baby in either a pink or a blue blanket, and asking strangers to describe their 1 minute interactions (giving the baby a toy ring, or tickling its fingers, something totally innocuous)...you can imagine the results."

I think my generation has been brought up in such a male dominated world that certain "givens" were taken for granted. Can't imagine how many of us in the 60 and older range have passed along those biases to our children whether or not we meant to.

When we can stop thinking of girls and women working in "non traditional" fields and just say "my daughter is a mechanical engineer" or "my daughter is - - whatever the traditionally male dominated field is", then we will be moving in the right direction of gender neutrality.

Our daughter happens to be very good looking. My husband fought his mother tooth and nail over her telling the child how pretty she is or admiring her truly lovely curly hair. He kept saying that her physical assets had nothing to do with the person she is. We raised her to do whatever she wanted to do from delicately decorating cookies to taking apart a diesel engine. She is a competent person who is not obsessed with her looks. So much value is placed on a female's looks, such a superficial sort of evaluation which diminishes the worth of each of us.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Supremely well put. Many thanks to you and your aunt.



MarilynKnits said:


> I sent her the op ed article and got back a reply including
> 
> "One of my colleagues has made her name studying implicit bias....tis really amazing. There's a website she has where you can test yourself...tis amazing how biased we are even when we profess not to be. There are studies with babies that the experimenter calls "Chris" (neutral name), wrapping the same baby in either a pink or a blue blanket, and asking strangers to describe their 1 minute interactions (giving the baby a toy ring, or tickling its fingers, something totally innocuous)...you can imagine the results."
> 
> ...


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> The cost of retail per square foot is astronomical and there is limited big spaces available. Manhattan is different from the other boros. In the other boros you will find larger grocery stores but in Manhattan proper, they exist in every area but on a different scale than in the 'burbs.


Thank you. I thought NYC didn't allow big box stores even before the retail prices hit the stratosphere.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you. I thought NYC didn't allow big box stores even before the retail prices hit the stratosphere.


And you thought wrong, as I keep pointing out to SQM and she keeps forgetting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> When are you going to leave her alone?


That's a puzzling question. She changed SQM's message and posted it like that, SQM felt unsettled by it, and you ask when SQM is going to leave _her_ alone? SQM wouldn't have written admin if _she_ had left SQM's message alone.

You seem to confuse cause and effect.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

He has two artificial valves so doesn't qualify for the new drugs - so he has to stay on coumadin (warfarin) It would be so great to have him able to use the new drugs. It is such a hassle for him. Oh well, we are lucky to have him with us and doing so well.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That's a puzzling question. She changed SQM's message and posted it like that, SQM felt unsettled by it, and you ask when SQM is going to leave _her_ alone? SQM wouldn't have written admin if _she_ had left SQM's message alone.
> 
> You seem to confuse cause and effect.


Thanks Darling PP. When is KPG going ......... to leave me alone? Why should I tolerate her tampering with my posts? Sorry Mrs. Somma but she is guilty as charged and I did nada to provoke her.

But I understand your position. Even if my daughter committed murder, I would support her always.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Thanks Darling PP. When is KPG going ......... to leave me alone? Why should I tolerate her tampering with my posts? Sorry Mrs. Somma but she is guilty as charged and I did nada to provoke her.
> 
> But I understand your position. Even if my daughter committed murder, I would support her always.


SQM...I'm sorry but I must challenge you on your claim. I have looked (twice) at the last 6 posts of KPG's that have anything to do with you. Then I went and looked at the posts that she quoted as they appear on your pages and I do not see any differences.

It could be that I'm missing something. Would you please put up the posts you claim that she changed?

Thank you.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Trust me. I don't have the interest to prolong any discussion of KGP but she altered my message under "sqm" wrote" . I wrote an original post and she quoted it but put XXX where a name was and changed details. I sympathize with you. When she was good she was very, very good but.... I don't know the details of her departure but when she was on, she was great. Check for a quote with XXX in it. That is my best tip.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Okay SQM I see what your referring to. KPG changed her own initials to XXX and changed the room from FF to NB (why I don't know) and you're claiming that was a monster act? 

OKay...Thanks!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> You thought it was funny and now you are complaining?


You are beating a dead horse. KPG is on self designated hiatus. Why all the hubb bubb??


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> You thought it was funny and now you are complaining?


No - look before that post, obviously. And I did give you the important clue that my 'hacked in' post ( what isn't funny was that she tried to improve on one of my lesser posts - I was tinged with embarrassment seeing it edited but her changes did make it read better) had some XXXXs in it. That Sherlock is what you need to hunt and search.

OOO that reminds me. We have not gone a huntin' for quite a long time. So tonight we are putting on our hunting gear and we will go into the wilds looking for SQM's post with the XXXs in it. The winner gets tonight's point.

Actually Our Previous Poster had the best idea. Let's assume KPG left because she was following her heart and we all know she is in a better place.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"Okay SQM I see what your referring to. KPG changed her own initials to XXX and changed the room from FF to NB (why I don't know) and you're claiming that was a monster act? 

OKay...Thanks!"

That isn't the point is it? She edited my post without my permission or removing my name. Now think, Ger, how you would feel if one of your posts was tinkered with? The content was irrelevant - it was the thought that counted. 

Our point tonight goes to the adventurous and courageous Gerslay for being able to locate the smoking gun that caused Ostrich to sadly suggest Leave Without Pay for KPG.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> "Okay SQM I see what your referring to. KPG changed her own initials to XXX and changed the room from FF to NB (why I don't know) and you're claiming that was a monster act?
> 
> OKay...Thanks!"
> 
> ...


Its not my place to defend her so I'm not going there. It was for myself that I needed you to put up the posts as I couldn't locate any differences.

Thanks for the point...how many do I need to get a toaster?


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

DBrown said:


> No, I would agree that this act was one of KPG's more benign acts.


So glad I found you. This is in response to your comment on Denim about conservatives and Rush Limbaugh. I didn't want to cause trouble on that happy place.

DBrown:

Quoting from a site doesn't mean blind allegiance.

And while we're at it, what do you think of obama's prisoner exchange?

How do you feel about the children sent over the border without parents and no place to go, clutching their HHS papers in their hands?

Surely you must begin to notice a pattern of mistakes and deception coming from our government. Surely you must be annoyed at being deceived by the words and actions of Barack Obama, Hilary Clinton, Susan Rice, John Kerry, etc. How do you square those circles?

And now - I'm gone - back to Denim and then out of town.


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

Why are you all still talking about KPG? Isn't there something more pressing you could be discussing? Is your fascination with her so deep that you can't move on? Come on - "let it go."


----------



## bonbf3 (Dec 20, 2011)

DBrown said:


> Oh, don't lie Gerri. You inferred with your usual passive aggressive cowardly behavior that SQM was making a big deal out of nothing AFTER having implied that she SQM was lying.
> 
> And instead of just saying "Oh, you're right", what you did was "defend" KPG by belittiling SQM's concerns.
> 
> ...


Now you've gone and hurt her feelings. You are a meany-head, and I'm telling! :hunf:

Come on, G. Let's take our yarn and go home!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

DBrown said:


> We're not talking about KPG so much as we're talking about Gerslay's dishonesty in regards to what was done to SQM.


I'm not being dishonest about what was done to SQM. You can ask SQM if she thinks I was doing that. I asked SQM for clarity for my own purposes and she gave it to me....and I thanked her. Period!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

DBrown said:


> On the Right... actually it does when it comes to Limbaugh.
> 
> Secondly what I see is STILL a lot of invented "scandals" and blaming Obama for things that ultimately is the repercussions of the BUSH administration.


DBrown
Oh yes, G.W. Bush, the maker of nothing but trouble with exorbitant bills attached, which we have to pay for all too many years yet and McCain and his buddies want to add to these disasters. Now those are actual Scandals.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I'm not being dishonest about what was done to SQM. You can ask SQM if she thinks I was doing that. I asked SQM for clarity for my own purposes and she gave it to me....and I thanked her. Period!


Ger is correct. So let us display our OCD on another topic.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

What is the point of repeatedly dragging up all this crap about KPG, Wombatnomore, Phil, Deborah? It has been hashed and rehashed, and frankly it is beyond boring now.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

DBrown said:


> Because SQM brought it up in another thread.
> 
> Some people are RIGHTFULLY concerned that a man who needs to choke women for sexual gratification has been prowling this board.
> 
> Maybe you don't care about that, but others do. SQM can be as naive as she wants, but she should be careful about how she may be leading other's down a dangerous path.


You have beat that horse to death. Do you honestly think that the women on this forum are so naïve or stupid as to fall for anything "that a man who needs to choke women for sexual gratification" has to promote on this forum?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

DBrown said:


> Because SQM brought it up in another thread.
> 
> Some people are RIGHTFULLY concerned that a man who needs to choke women for sexual gratification has been prowling this board.
> 
> Maybe you don't care about that, but others do. SQM can be as naive as she wants, but she should be careful about how she may be leading other's down a dangerous path.


This is really sick and crazy Lisa. It is not fun or interesting. It is alarming. I wish you peace, Lisa.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> I doubt it's THAT "self" designated. Admin told me he gave her a warning and that if she kept up her crap he's ban her for good.
> 
> She's just telling everyone that she's doing this "out of the blue".
> 
> When in truth, she's trying to avoid getting banned.


Hello, D. Interesting.

Waitaminnit. What crap? I thought she was innocent as a newborn babe.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Its not my place to defend her so I'm not going there. It was for myself that I needed you to put up the posts as I couldn't locate any differences.
> 
> Thanks for the point...how many do I need to get a toaster?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Never mind.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> This is really sick and crazy Lisa. It is not fun or interesting. It is alarming. I wish you peace, Lisa.


It may not be fun or interesting, but it is not sick and crazy, and it is we who've been alarmed. Your friend may not even be aware that Wombat Phil has been using her account; it might be a good idea to tell her.

If he hasn't, then she's a foul-minded, nasty piece of - fill it in yourself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> On the Right... actually it does when it comes to Limbaugh.
> 
> Secondly what I see is STILL a lot of invented "scandals" and blaming Obama for things that ultimately is the repercussions of the BUSH administration.


Well, when things get boring, blame Obama.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> Of course you will, you don't have the facts or the balls to debate me honestly.


Oh, come on. All she did was call you "a meany-head." I thought that was kind of funny.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It may not be fun or interesting, but it is not sick and crazy, and it is we who've been alarmed. Your friend may not even be aware that Wombat Phil has been using her account; it might be a good idea to tell her.
> 
> If he hasn't, then she's a foul-minded, nasty piece of - fill it in yourself.


Purl that is so crazy. I had breakfast with Wombat on skype and know exactly who she is. Do some sleuthing and you will find out you are making some very wrong and cruel assumptions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> We're not talking about KPG so much as we're talking about Gerslay's dishonesty in regards to what was done to SQM.


DBrown, whoever you are, it might be time to lay off Gerslay for a while. Even I think it's been going on too long, and I tend to wring every minute out of things.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> joeysomma said:
> 
> 
> > There is nothing like making a mountain out of a molehill.
> ...


It's in the DNA.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

DBrown said:


> You're wrong. Just like you're wrong about Deborah and her brother. I like you SQM, but you're not a particularly good judge of character.
> 
> Why don't you go betray Poor Purl by throwing her under the bus again to prove your "street cred" with the "Dungarees and Diapers" set.


I would rather not have been brought into this, though I guess it's nice to have someone stick up for me.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Purl that is so crazy. I had breakfast with Wombat on skype and know exactly who she is. Do some sleuthing and you will find out you are making some very wrong and cruel assumptions.


I agree, PP regularly makes very wrong and cruel assumptions about everyone.

back to you:

I love how *you* loved me quoting *you* with your own words. In fact, you praised me for doing so (using your own words back at ya) 1 1/4 hours after I did so!!! (June 10th 17:40:12)

Remember this; your words: June 10th 18:14:36



SQM said:


> Is KPG giving me the boot?
> 
> I actually would miss your wit if you left. I loved how one of my posts you quoted morphed. Very funny.
> 
> I am glad you are still here.


How cool was that! You LOVED it and told me _twice_ how much you appreciate my post(s). So kind of you. I did it just for you.

Now, three days later, you are horrified and stressed and reported me to Admin. What happened SQM? You also said I was not provoked. Seriously?

Oh, ya. Remember prior, you wrote me a PM scolding me AND telling me where I should post? I do. Remember, that was after four or five Libs chastised me days for a 'nothing' post I made. I do. Then remember, after that you took it upon yourself to post a public announcement on a thread telling everyone that you sent me that PM and that I was now leaving KP? I do. That was AFTER I personally made a post stating I would leave KP (on a different thread). You just *had* to broadcast it on another thread as if your victory. Nuh, no provocation at all.

This is all complete and absolute stupidity and ignorance. Grown women with no compassion and common sense or the ability to communicate with one another which is precisely why I chose to take a leave of absence _on my own accord_ as I told you I would.

Seems you, along with your Liberal buds, do like to make mountains from mole hills for NO reason. At least you have good mentors to look to for counsel.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Purl that is so crazy. I had breakfast with Wombat on skype and know exactly who she is. Do some sleuthing and you will find out you are making some very wrong and cruel assumptions.


The messages that he or she sent me were so nasty that I don't have to "do some sleuthing" (and look who's telling other people to search for things) to know you don't have the complete picture. I'm willing to believe the she-version is a nice woman, but then she ought to get rid of the he-version. He's foul.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> PP regularly makes very wrong and cruel assumptions and sees the worst in everyone. It is in her DNA.


Thank you for copying my DNA statement; imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I'd rather not have been brought into a disagreement between you and SQM that had nothing to do with me. Would it have been so hard for you to get your mind off me?

My assumptions about you haven't even approached what you're actually capable of, as I learned a while back. I see the worst in those people who are the worst. And I see a lot of good in people who have good in them, which is why I see you as I do.

Are you going to punish me again by making up slanderous lies about me and my husband (not "hubby," please)? Or would you then have to keep your word about leaving?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I suspected as much. Thank you.



DBrown said:


> I doubt it's THAT "self" designated. Admin told me he gave her a warning and that if she kept up her crap he's ban her for good.
> 
> She's just telling everyone that she's doing this "out of the blue".
> 
> When in truth, she's trying to avoid getting banned.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DBrown said:


> On the Right... actually it does when it comes to Limbaugh.
> 
> Secondly what I see is STILL a lot of invented "scandals" and blaming Obama for things that ultimately is the repercussions of the BUSH administration.


 :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: :hunf: I'm SICK of hearing President Obama blamed for everything including rainy weather. I believe that history will treat him kindly. In the meantime, I intend to try to ignore the petty remarks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DBrown said:


> Of course you will, you don't have the facts or the balls to debate me honestly.


 :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> DBrown
> Oh yes, G.W. Bush, the maker of nothing but trouble with exorbitant bills attached, which we have to pay for all too many years yet and McCain and his buddies want to add to these disasters. Now those are actual Scandals.


 :thumbup: Well put, Huck. Thanks.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

DBrown said:


> I mean seriously. How could these Neo-Con morons EVER think that we could "win" wars in the whole middle-east region with a "volunteer" army and "privatizing" war with mercenaries?
> 
> Now Iraq is devolving and they're "surprised"?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I guess this proves I'm a card-carrying liberal because I agree completely.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> You have beat that horse to death. Do you honestly think that the women on this forum are so naïve or stupid as to fall for anything "that a man who needs to choke women for sexual gratification" has to promote on this forum?


In the beginning, Cindy, I laughed at this whole train of thought. Submissive? Wrong place. After seeing the response of many on KP, I've changed my mind. There are some naive, submissive women here. My only hope is that no children are left at risk.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How cool was that! You LOVED it and told me _twice_ how much you appreciate my post(s). So kind of you. I did it just for you.
> 
> Now, three days later, you are horrified and stressed and reported me to Admin. What happened SQM? You also said I was not provoked. Seriously?
> 
> ...


and.....we have action. I'll go make the popcorn.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

What do you want to drink?



maysmom said:


> and.....we have action. I'll go make the popcorn.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> and.....we have action. I'll go make the popcorn.


I have some tacos and salsa I can bring.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How cool was that! You LOVED it and told me _twice_ how much you appreciate my post(s). So kind of you. I did it just for you.
> 
> Now, three days later, you are horrified and stressed and reported me to Admin. What happened SQM? You also said I was not provoked. Seriously?
> 
> ...


*Grown women with no compassion and common sense or the ability to communicate with one another which is precisely why I chose to take a leave of absence on my own accord as I told you I would.*

Exactly when does this leave of absence begin??


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> *Grown women with no compassion and common sense or the ability to communicate with one another which is precisely why I chose to take a leave of absence on my own accord as I told you I would.*
> 
> Exactly when does this leave of absence begin??


Chortle Chortle. The Brat and I will help you pack.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> He has two artificial valves so doesn't qualify for the new drugs - so he has to stay on coumadin (warfarin) It would be so great to have him able to use the new drugs. It is such a hassle for him. Oh well, we are lucky to have him with us and doing so well.


At least coumadin is tried and true. Doctors are familiar with it and know how to regulate it. Sometimes the newer drugs don't live up to expectations and sometimes there are unpleasant side effects as well. As long as he is doing well, we are grateful on your behalf.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Purl that is so crazy. I had breakfast with Wombat on skype and know exactly who she is. Do some sleuthing and you will find out you are making some very wrong and cruel assumptions.


Not crazy. She's jealous of your new friendship with Wombat.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Shalom Solo:

No need to be jealous. I have room in my mind for tons of people.

Solo - while I have you - a big moth flew in my apt. Do 21 century moths eat cashmere yarn? thanks.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shalom Solo:
> 
> No need to be jealous. I have room in my mind for tons of people.
> 
> Solo - while I have you - a big moth flew in my apt. Do 21 century moths eat cashmere yarn? thanks.


If Solo is off line and doesn't have a chance to get to you, the only thing I can think of is put the yarn in a plastic bag, squoosh out as much air as you can, and pop it into the freezer at least over night.

Solo, do you think this will work? I will appreciate another way to save cashmere yarn, too.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> If Solo is off line and doesn't have a chance to get to you, the only thing I can think of is put the yarn in a plastic bag, squoosh out as much air as you can, and pop it into the freezer at least over night.
> 
> Solo, do you think this will work? I will appreciate another way to save cashmere yarn, too.


Actually I need advice on how to get rid of the bloody moth. And it's huge. And I don't have hairspray - which was my mom's weapon of choice when battling bugs.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually I need advice on how to get rid of the bloody moth. And it's huge. And I don't have hairspray - which was my mom's weapon of choice when battling bugs.


Do you have any Pam or other cooking spray? The oil might coat the wings so you can drop the bug and dump it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Not crazy. She's jealous of your new friendship with Wombat.


You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?

BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.

Most people would find that abusive.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do you have any Pam or other cooking spray? The oil might coat the wings so you can drop the bug and dump it.


hmm. And I thought one of our friends from the South would be the first to figure that out.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?
> 
> BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.
> 
> Most people would find that abusive.


I vote for pathetic.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Shalom Solo:
> 
> No need to be jealous. I have room in my mind for tons of people.
> 
> Solo - while I have you - a big moth flew in my apt. Do 21 century moths eat cashmere yarn? thanks.


Oh, moth. At first I thought you wrote: Solo, a big mouth, flew in my apt. I didn't know she could fly.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If Solo is off line and doesn't have a chance to get to you, the only thing I can think of is put the yarn in a plastic bag, squoosh out as much air as you can, and pop it into the freezer at least over night.
> 
> Solo, do you think this will work? I will appreciate another way to save cashmere yarn, too.


Is Solow some kind of moth expert? Maybe she's an insectologist. I wish I'd known sooner.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?
> 
> BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.
> 
> Most people would find that abusive.


Tonight is a special night - just for Bygone Days - let's roller skate. See youse on the rink. And don't forget the elbow pads.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, moth. At first I thought you wrote: Solo, a big mouth, flew in my apt. I didn't know she could fly.


Ha Ha Ha Ha Ho!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Is Solow some kind of moth expert? Maybe she's an insectologist. I wish I'd known sooner.


Entomologist, m'dear. Although a butterfly/moth maven might have another moniker--

:lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I vote for pathetic.


It is. I used the other word because she's forever accusing me of being abusive, as if I were everyone's mother and hurting all their feelings.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tonight is a special name - just for Bygone Days - let's roller skate. See youse on the rink. And don't forget the elbow pads.


Since the last time I roller skated was in Girl Scouts, I'll just wave as you sail past--
:XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Tonight is a special night - just for Bygone Days - let's roller skate. See youse on the rink. And don't forget the elbow pads.


Do you mean "name" or "game"?

I have to use my elbows for the skates, since my feet aren't working right.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Actually I need advice on how to get rid of the bloody moth. And it's huge. And I don't have hairspray - which was my mom's weapon of choice when battling bugs.


From any-old online source
If you do spot moths in your home, dont panic. Chances are they arent the clothes-eating kind. There are 15,000 moth species in the U.S., said Bruce Walsh, a professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Arizona at Tucson. To give you a sense of perspective, only two affect clothes. So if you see one, odds are you dont have a clothes moths.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Entomologist, m'dear. Although a butterfly/moth maven might have another moniker--
> 
> :lol:


You're half right. It's the better choice, though insectologist is okay, too. Lepidopterist is even better.

What's the etymology of entomology?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You're half right. It's the better choice, though insectologist is okay, too.
> 
> What's the etymology of entomology?


It's Greek to me.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

maysmom said:


> Since the last time I roller skated was in Girl Scouts, I'll just wave as you sail past--
> :XD:


nope - the Roller Derby Girls rely on you. Just lace up your skates...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> From any-old online source
> If you do spot moths in your home, dont panic. Chances are they arent the clothes-eating kind. There are 15,000 moth species in the U.S., said Bruce Walsh, a professor of ecology and evolutionary biology at the University of Arizona at Tucson. To give you a sense of perspective, only two affect clothes. So if you see one, odds are you dont have a clothes moths.


And both of them are in my clothes closets. In fact, I had a silk/cotton sweater in a drawer, and it now has holes in it. Was it the silk or the cotton that attracted them?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It's Greek to me.


I'm not latin you get away with that so easily.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And both of them are in my clothes closets. In fact, I had a silk/cotton sweater in a drawer, and it now has holes in it. Was it the silk or the cotton that attracted them?


If he belonged to the 1% it was the silk.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm not latin you get away with that so easily.


Groan groan. 
I was thinking about taking my leave because company's coming and now I've received a legitimate excuse . . . .


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> If he belonged to the 1% it was the silk.


Even moths have a 1%. Damn, what is this world coming to?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

alcameron said:


> It's Greek to me.


Latin, Sanskrit, it's a puzzle!!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> nope - the Roller Derby Girls rely on you. Just lace up your skates...


Ha ha, that's a good one!

:roll: :roll:


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MYOB around here???? You're joking, right? How many times has someone said, if you post on any KP topic, anyone who follows that topic can respond to any and everything they read?? Plus you cry "abuse". Give it a rest and act like an adult.


Poor Purl said:


> You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?
> 
> BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.
> 
> Most people would find that abusive.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Even moths have a 1%. Damn, what is this world coming to?


And they would be rapacious little beasts. Sorry about the blouse.


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## mmorris (Sep 5, 2013)

Mountain Sts.--Never heard of that expression! Am going to remember it.


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## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

SQM said:


> Actually I need advice on how to get rid of the bloody moth. And it's huge. And I don't have hairspray - which was my mom's weapon of choice when battling bugs.


If it was a Bogong moth you could always eat it. The Australian Aboriginals used to feast on the Bogong Moth.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> MYOB around here???? You're joking, right? How many times has someone said, if you post on any KP topic, anyone who follows that topic can respond to any and everything they read?? Plus you cry "abuse". Give it a rest and act like an adult.


For the most part, yes, I was joking. Apparently you aren't. I wasn't really crying "abuse," but since its a word she uses about me, I wanted to throw it back in her face.

Besides, it's cowardly the way she waits for someone else to say something about me, and then says "ME TOO. ME TOO." I've even caught her using KPG's exact words in talking about me.

I see you're having a Maid's day off, or an off day, Maid. Cheer up.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And they would be rapacious little beasts. Sorry about the blouse.


It's black. I can probably repair it with black silk thread. But I was shocked to see it. Wool I might have expected, but not silk-cotton.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's black. I can probably repair it with black silk thread. But I was shocked to see it. Wool I might have expected, but not silk-cotton.


I looked up a site (http://www.suekayton.com/Silkworms/whole.htm) on silkworms and found among other information:

"Inside the cocoon, the silkworm sheds its skin and turns into a brown-shelled pupa. Inside this shell, the pupa turns into a moth. This process takes three weeks, and then the moth emerges from the cocoon. They usually emerge at dawn. The adult moth has a special spit which is used to dissolve the silk so it can push its way out of the cocoon. "

Which seems to explain how they make the holes in silk. By extrapolation, it is possible to believe other moths' saliva can dissolve organic fibers such as silk and wool.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> I looked up a site (http://www.suekayton.com/Silkworms/whole.htm) on silkworms and found among other information:
> 
> "Inside the cocoon, the silkworm sheds its skin and turns into a brown-shelled pupa. Inside this shell, the pupa turns into a moth. This process takes three weeks, and then the moth emerges from the cocoon. They usually emerge at dawn. The adult moth has a special spit which is used to dissolve the silk so it can push its way out of the cocoon. "
> 
> Which seems to explain how they make the holes in silk. By extrapolation, it is possible to believe other moths' saliva can dissolve organic fibers such as silk and wool.


Brilliant statement with excellent insight says the know-it-all Sloth who never was able to extrapolate.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Brilliant statement with excellent insight says the know-it-all Sloth who never was able to extrapolate.


My humble thanks for your compliment. But remember, our Sloth makes witty and wonderful remarks to amuse and enlighten us all.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I looked up a site (http://www.suekayton.com/Silkworms/whole.htm) on silkworms and found among other information:
> 
> "Inside the cocoon, the silkworm sheds its skin and turns into a brown-shelled pupa. Inside this shell, the pupa turns into a moth. This process takes three weeks, and then the moth emerges from the cocoon. They usually emerge at dawn. The adult moth has a special spit which is used to dissolve the silk so it can push its way out of the cocoon. "
> 
> Which seems to explain how they make the holes in silk. By extrapolation, it is possible to believe other moths' saliva can dissolve organic fibers such as silk and wool.


That makes sense. I've been learning so much here between this thread and Adam & Eve. It almost feels like work.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

I would think that if it is necessary to find a label, one use what that individual uses, no?



EveMCooke said:


> You call him a fellow human being and hopefully a friend. The colour in your skin is only dependent on the amount of melanin present. Me, I am coloured, a variety of colours in fact. I am mostly pinkish with a variety of brown spots and blobs, some dark and some not so dark. I have, or had, red hair and we red heads display this multitude of colours in our skin tones.
> 
> So, What do you call someone who was born in Jamaica, regardless of whether they are now a US citizen? You call them a friend, a fellow human being.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> For the most part, yes, I was joking. Apparently you aren't. I wasn't really crying "abuse," but since its a word she uses about me, I wanted to throw it back in her face.
> 
> Besides, it's cowardly the way she waits for someone else to say something about me, and then says "ME TOO. ME TOO." I've even caught her using KPG's exact words in talking about me.
> I see you're having a Maid's day off, or an off day, Maid. Cheer up.


Sometimes I lose all patience. I go along for a while and then start wondering why anything has to be thrown back in anyone's face, or whether someone altered some posts, or assessing someone here where all we have are some pretty dead words on a page unless we use emoticons, is attractive or fun. This seems like a waste of time. Others have talked about this. I've gone on and on myself.

I responded to a post of yours, but what I said easily could be said about a bunch of this topic's participants, no matter who. I probably should have have hit "Reply" and made a general post, instead of quoting you. Think about what I said to you as applying to everyone who feels the need to chew on the unchangeable attributes of anyone around here.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sometimes I lose all patience. I go along for a while and then start wondering why anything has to be thrown back in anyone's face, or whether someone altered some posts, or assessing someone here where all we have are some pretty dead words on a page unless we use emoticons, is attractive or fun. This seems like a waste of time. Others have talked about this. I've gone on and on myself.
> 
> I responded to a post of yours, but what I said easily could be said about a bunch of this topic's participants, no matter who. I probably should have have hit "Reply" and made a general post, instead of quoting you. Think about what I said to you as applying to everyone who feels the need to chew on the unchangeable attributes of anyone around here.


I have no desire to change other people's attributes, unless I'm getting paid for it (for which I have a license). As the old expression has it, people have to want to change.

I do think some people can moderate their behavior, whether or not they want to, and Solow's behavior with regard to me (and maybe some others, but i haven't seen it as blatant with others) is not just annoying but - I believe - harmful. I'm tired of being described as "abusive" when it's impossible to be abusive to someone over whom you have no power. And it's equally tiresome to have someone keep misinterpreting what I've said and putting it in the worst way possible.

So my telling her to mind her own business is hardly a problem, especially since she won't, anyway, and your telling us all to grow up is probably uncalled for.

Have you been on the Neutral Bridges thread? Everyone there is on her best behavior. So far the only interesting topic that's come up is colonoscopy prep, but everyone's been very nice.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sometimes I lose all patience. I go along for a while and then start wondering why anything has to be thrown back in anyone's face, or whether someone altered some posts, or assessing someone here where all we have are some pretty dead words on a page unless we use emoticons, is attractive or fun. This seems like a waste of time. Others have talked about this. I've gone on and on myself.
> 
> I responded to a post of yours, but what I said easily could be said about a bunch of this topic's participants, no matter who. I probably should have have hit "Reply" and made a general post, instead of quoting you. Think about what I said to you as applying to everyone who feels the need to chew on the unchangeable attributes of anyone around here.


I am not sure why you bother to try to explain it away. The key clue to the why is probably that you do it on a cyclical basis. 
It just turns out that you are the rudest of all as you call others out on their rudeness with wild accusations and putdowns. 
People are used to it. 
It is much better, I suppose, that you do it here rather than to people who actually have to spend time with you and are vulnerable in your presence.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> I am not sure why you bother to try to explain it away. The key clue to the why is probably that you do it on a cyclical basis.
> It just turns out that you are the rudest of all as you call others out on their rudeness with wild accusations and putdowns.
> People are used to it.
> It is much better, I suppose, that you do it here rather than to people who actually have to spend time with you and are vulnerable in your presence.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Though I think the presence of emoticons trivializes what you say.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Though I think the presence of emoticons trivializes what you say.


re:MIB
It's just her didactic streak. She knows about it . . .


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

alcameron said:


> re:MIB
> It's just her didactic streak. She knows about it . . .


I know she does. It just may take time for her to come down off that high horse of hers.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I know she does. It just may take time for her to come down off that high horse of hers.


Yeah, yeah. Call me Little Miss Goody Two Shoes. I do get up on my shoes, but have no high horses.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

alcameron said:


> re:MIB
> It's just her didactic streak. She knows about it . . .


Well yes, of course she knows about it. 
The thing is when we recognize in ourselves that interactions with everyone else are crazy making that it is the self and not the other who has the problem. 
So go scream at a mirror, would be my advice. 
I have to do it. Often.  :twisted: 
We all do at some point. 
Poor Purl has been one of the woman's defenders, FGS. 
And maybe that is why she gets the brunt of it so often. Just like a 3 yo, MIB strikes out at the one she is sure won't desert her.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Yeah, yeah. Call me Little Miss Goody Two Shoes. I do get up on my shoes, but have no high horses.


Neither is very attractive.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> Well yes, of course she knows about it.
> The thing is when we recognize in ourselves that interactions with everyone else are crazy making that it is the self and not the other who has the problem.
> So go scream at a mirror, would be my advice.
> I have to do it. Often.  :twisted:
> ...


That may be what's going on. On the other hand, maybe she wants me to be good because she really likes me. Or maybe it's just her way of going


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> That may be what's going on. On the other hand, maybe she wants me to be good because she really likes me. Or maybe it's just her way of going


If that cartoon is your idea of being good, please be bad. Has it never occurred to you that I don't get the "in" jokes, never have and probably never will. I'm a nerd. I don't go where the in crowd goes. I'm not part of any of the cliques here, though I have often belonged to claques.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> If that cartoon is your idea of being good, please be bad. Has it never occurred to you that I don't get the "in" jokes, never have and probably never will. I'm a nerd. I don't go where the in crowd goes. I'm not part of any of the cliques here, though I have often belonged to claques.


No, it was just my idea of a silly joke. You do remember, don't you, that I'm the person who called your "crabs" in the crust "crustaceans"? Did you not get that joke either?

But since it's a picture of some beast sticking its tongue out, I thought of using it specifically to be childish, since that's how I've been characterized.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> No, it was just my idea of a silly joke. You do remember, don't you, that I'm the person who called your "crabs" in the crust "crustaceans"? Did you not get that joke either?
> 
> But since it's a picture of some beast sticking its tongue out, I thought of using it specifically to be childish, since that's how I've been characterized.


Well, it did take me a couple of minutes to get the "crustaceans" remark, and being characterized in a cartoon as an ape who is eating s**t isn't my idea of a silly joke. Purl, let me repeat, I'm a nerd. I don't get certain kinds of silly jokes.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, it did take me a couple of minutes to get the "crustaceans" remark, and being characterized in a cartoon as an ape who is eating s**t isn't my idea of a silly joke. Purl, let me repeat, I'm a nerd. I don't get certain kinds of silly jokes.


The feces is in your mind. There is nothing about crap in that emoticon. 
You don't have to "get" anything to manage your temper.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Shalom Solo:
> 
> No need to be jealous. I have room in my mind for tons of people.
> 
> Solo - while I have you - a big moth flew in my apt. Do 21 century moths eat cashmere yarn? thanks.


Can't help you there. I have never owned anything made of cashmere. Possibly window screens would help keep the bugs away in the future.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?
> 
> BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.
> 
> Most people would find that abusive.


We don't have a friendship. You are so testy I must be correct. Try taking a look at your own behavior and how you blow everything out of proportion. Poor, poor pitiful purl everyone is being mean to you - for no reason of course. You started attacking me a long time ago when you were trying to impress your friends. So quit being a crybaby. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> We don't have a friendship. You are so testy I must be correct. Try taking a look at your own behavior and how you blow everything out of proportion. Poor, poor pitiful purl everyone is being mean to you - for no reason of course. You started attacking me a long time ago when you were trying to impress your friends. So quit being a crybaby. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:, even though I don't like agreeing with you.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Well, it did take me a couple of minutes to get the "crustaceans" remark, and being characterized in a cartoon as an ape who is eating s**t isn't my idea of a silly joke. Purl, let me repeat, I'm a nerd. I don't get certain kinds of silly jokes.


I'm out of here, this is far less entertaining than watching some 3 year olds squabbling in a sand box.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Cindy S said:


> I'm out of here, this is far less entertaining than watching some 3 year olds squabbling in a sand box.


Funny, you couldn't just leave you had to add your own little nasty to the mix.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

jellen said:


> Funny, you couldn't just leave you had to add your own little nasty to the mix.


Hey, Cindy is a nice lady. She adds a lot to our discussions.
What MIB is doing IS immature and does qualify for the sand box remark in this instance. JMHO


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

But the sandbox remarks are what make us laugh.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> We don't have a friendship. You are so testy I must be correct. Try taking a look at your own behavior and how you blow everything out of proportion. Poor, poor pitiful purl everyone is being mean to you - for no reason of course. You started attacking me a long time ago when you were trying to impress your friends. So quit being a crybaby. If you can't take it, don't dish it out.


I'm beginning to suspect - okay, I've known for a while - that you have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, if I prove you're wrong, you can just make the same accusation again, but I've never complained about everybody being mean to me, or anybody other than your anti-Semitic friend.

Don't forget you're the one who got on the Domestic Violence thread to complain about how mean we are to you (plural), and how abusive I am, to women who'd been beaten and thrown out of their homes, or had daughters killed by abusive husbands. I'd like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm beginning to suspect - okay, I've known for a while - that you have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, if I prove you're wrong, you can just make the same accusation again, but I've never complained about everybody being mean to me, or anybody other than your anti-Semitic friend.
> 
> Don't forget you're the one who got on the Domestic Violence thread to complain about how mean we are to you (plural), and how abusive I am, to women who'd been beaten and thrown out of their homes, or had daughters killed by abusive husbands. I'd like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you.


Cool! Monday night fight with Solo and PP. Place your bets.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cool! Monday night fight with Solo and PP. Place your bets.


You know whom I will second in the duel. I will be D'Artagnan to her Athos!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cool! Monday night fight with Solo and PP. Place your bets.


Will you hang above my corner with the bucket and sponge?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You know whom I will second in the duel. I will be D'Artagnan to her Athos!


D'Artagnan was by far the best fighter. Wasn't he played by Gene Kelly?

I hope it's me you'll second.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> D'Artagnan was by far the best fighter. Wasn't he played by Gene Kelly?
> 
> I hope it's me you'll second.


Nu, so whom else, Mamaleh?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jellen said:


> Funny, you couldn't just leave you had to add your own little nasty to the mix.


Really?? Nasty? It was just an observation that some people behave at a level lower than 3 year olds.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Will you hang above my corner with the bucket and sponge?


yeah and I will let you spit out your teeth guard in my hand. OOOO. What a good friend am I.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Really?? Nasty? It was just an observation that some people behave at a level lower than 3 year olds.


Why Missy Jellen! Update!!!!!! You are picking on one of our best skaters. We are waiting for our featured fight to begin with PP vs. Solo. Step right up and place your bets. I am the bookie.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Hey we are all nice people most of the time. 
Getting tangled up in these silly battles is schoolyard stuff regardless of who does it. 
Heck, I get called on the carpet all the time for this stuff. 
I am nice many times, don't call me a lady, though, OK?



BrattyPatty said:


> Hey, Cindy is a nice lady. She adds a lot to our discussions.
> What MIB is doing IS immature and does qualify for the sand box remark in this instance. JMHO


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

SQM said:


> Why Missy Jellen! Update!!!!!! You are picking on one of our best skaters. We are waiting for our featured fight to begin with PP vs. Solo. Step right up and place your bets. I am the bookie.


I know Cindy, I like Cindy. Hell, I like MIB most of the time. 
Regardless, what we all must have learned by now is that we don't have to allow every thought we have drip off our fingers. 
And if trying to control senior citizens behavior by suggesting that they are acting like pre-schoolers isn't nasty, I will eat my hat.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

SQM said:


> yeah and I will let you spit out your teeth guard in my hand. OOOO. What a good friend am I.


EEEEEWwwwwww


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

jellen said:


> I know Cindy, I like Cindy. Hell, I like MIB most of the time.
> Regardless, what we all must have learned by now is that we don't have to allow every thought we have drip off our fingers.
> And if trying to control senior citizens behavior by suggesting that they are acting like pre-schoolers isn't nasty, I will eat my hat.


Salt and pepper???


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

jellen said:


> Hey we are all nice people most of the time.
> Getting tangled up in these silly battles is schoolyard stuff regardless of who does it.
> Heck, I get called on the carpet all the time for this stuff.
> I am nice many times, don't call me a lady, though, OK?


OOOOOO! Tougher than ever!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah and I will let you spit out your teeth guard in my hand. OOOO. What a good friend am I.


Yuk. That's taking friendship a few steps too far. I wouldn't ask that of you.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> Hey we are all nice people most of the time.
> Getting tangled up in these silly battles is schoolyard stuff regardless of who does it.
> Heck, I get called on the carpet all the time for this stuff.
> I am nice many times, don't call me a lady, though, OK?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Where are our Denim friends? They seem to be AWOL. Are we paying for Cantor's defeat?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why Missy Jellen! Update!!!!!! You are picking on one of our best skaters. We are waiting for our featured fight to begin with PP vs. Solo. Step right up and place your bets. I am the bookie.


Can we move on to something else, please? This stopped being funny a long time ago.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Where are our Denim friends? They seem to be AWOL. Are we paying for Cantor's defeat?


Is it a bad thing that they're not around? Does it feel as though they're punishing us? Not me, thank you.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

yeah. It is amazing that they left en masse considering this was MRS. SOMMA'S WEBSITE. Is this how a neighborhood changes?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Can we move on to something else, please? This stopped being funny a long time ago.


I agree


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> I agree


Hi, Shirley. I didn't notice you in the corner. Is tomorrow the stress test, or Wednesday? Or have missed it altogether?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

SQM said:


> Why Missy Jellen! Update!!!!!! You are picking on one of our best skaters. We are waiting for our featured fight to begin with PP vs. Solo. Step right up and place your bets. I am the bookie.


Come on, sloth, it'll be no contest, like shooting fish in a barrel.

:twisted:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Come on, sloth, it'll be no contest, like shooting fish in a barrel.
> 
> :twisted:


Has anyone ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? I bet it makes an awful mess.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Has anyone ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? I bet it makes an awful mess.


I'd rather just net 'em.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Hi, Shirley. I didn't notice you in the corner. Is tomorrow the stress test, or Wednesday? Or have missed it altogether?


both - - non active myocardial profussion test - active - today 
Stress today non stress tomorrow.

then nothing until the 4th (holter monitor)

8th lower gi -- HOpefully that will be the end of the tests.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Reaping the rewards is more like it. 
LOL, I love that it is the Prez' fault that Mr. Cantor lost his election.



SQM said:


> Where are our Denim friends? They seem to be AWOL. Are we paying for Cantor's defeat?


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

maysmom said:


> I'd rather just net 'em.


I prefer the supermarket. Though, the fish counter always smells.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Like people in a movie theater?



Poor Purl said:


> Has anyone ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? I bet it makes an awful mess.


----------



## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah. It is amazing that they left en masse considering this was MRS. SOMMA'S WEBSITE. Is this how a neighborhood changes?


Don't worry about that. Sure more important things to worry about.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

theyarnlady said:


> Don't worry about that. Sure more important things to worry about.


Yes, indeed. The duplicity of humankind being one of those things.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

maysmom said:


> I'd rather just net 'em.


I would rather go to the seafood store and get them clean and ready to cook.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jellen said:


> Reaping the rewards is more like it.
> LOL, I love that it is the Prez' fault that Mr. Cantor lost his election.


Saw a couple of political cartoons on GoComics today regarding presidential responsibility

Robert Ariail
http://www.gocomics.com/comic/explore/1494942/16#.U6BBJihFrIU

Rob Rogers
http://www.gocomics.com/comic/explore/1494942/17#.U6BBfyhFrIU


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> both - - non active myocardial profussion test - active - today
> Stress today non stress tomorrow.
> 
> then nothing until the 4th (holter monitor)
> ...


It would be nice if you could predict when life would be stressful like that: Stress today non stress tomorrow.

Could luck on the tests. But I fear the tests never end until we have our final exam, which I hope is a long way off.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> Reaping the rewards is more like it.
> LOL, I love that it is the Prez' fault that Mr. Cantor lost his election.


Whatever it is, it's the Prez's fault. Was Cantor really unpopular among others besides the nut-job fringe? He was always such a nasty little $h/t that I would think he'd be beloved.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> I prefer the supermarket. Though, the fish counter always smells.


You know to stop fish from smelling? Cut off their noses.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Like people in a movie theater?


That's a very macabre one-liner. Were you awake all night?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> Don't worry about that. Sure more important things to worry about.


How is your dad doing, Yarnie? This must be a very stressful time for you, and there's not much that will make it better. I think one of the hardest things about life is knowing that our loved ones are going to leave us behind. I hope you're being comforted by your friends.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Saw a couple of political cartoons on GoComics today regarding presidential responsibility
> 
> Robert Ariail
> http://www.gocomics.com/comic/explore/1494942/16#.U6BBJihFrIU
> ...


I got the same thing on both links, about a forgetful dog, though there was a small one by Matt Wuerker that was good, though unpretty:


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> You know to stop fish from smelling? Cut off their noses.


HAHAHAAA, that one is older than we are. Combined.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would rather go to the seafood store and get them clean and ready to cook.


Despite being only a half hour from the coast I have not found a fish store that I like. 
I do LOVE a couple of local restaurants who make the drive to buy the product for me. They even do the cooking.

There is a sea food truck at the local farmers' market on Saturday.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Saw a couple of political cartoons on GoComics today regarding presidential responsibility
> 
> I think that is why the names, PoorPurl.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Whatever it is, it's the Prez's fault. Was Cantor really unpopular among others besides the nut-job fringe? He was always such a nasty little $h/t that I would think he'd be beloved.


Only approx. 60K voted in the district. I have forgotten the exact results. It was something like 32K to 28K, I think. 
The percentages sound like more of a gap than the actual numbers.

OK, time to go prod that big boy into going outside and letting me knit another dollie blanket.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> both - - non active myocardial profussion test - active - today
> Stress today non stress tomorrow.
> 
> then nothing until the 4th (holter monitor)
> ...


Hi, Shirley! I've bbeen thinking of you. Hope all goes well.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I would rather go to the seafood store and get them clean and ready to cook.


My idea of fish is Long John Silvers. LOL! However, since Fukishima, I won't touch the stuff. Right after Fukushima happened, I bought lots and lots of tuna. I'm almost out.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

jellen said:


> Despite being only a half hour from the coast I have not found a fish store that I like.
> I do LOVE a couple of local restaurants who make the drive to buy the product for me. They even do the cooking.
> 
> There is a sea food truck at the local farmers' market on Saturday.


Which coast?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> Despite being only a half hour from the coast I have not found a fish store that I like.
> I do LOVE a couple of local restaurants who make the drive to buy the product for me. They even do the cooking.
> 
> There is a sea food truck at the local farmers' market on Saturday.


The sea food truck sounds like a good idea. There's a fish store in Gloucester that we used to go to when we stayed there one summer. I hope they got their fish right off the boat, as their ads implied, but in any case the fish seemed fresh.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> MarilynKnits said:
> 
> 
> > Saw a couple of political cartoons on GoComics today regarding presidential responsibility
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> HAHAHAAA, that one is older than we are. Combined.


I've been missing that laughter. Nice to read your voice.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> both - - non active myocardial profussion test - active - today
> Stress today non stress tomorrow.
> 
> then nothing until the 4th (holter monitor)
> ...


Best of luck, will be thinking about you!!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I got the same thing on both links, about a forgetful dog, though there was a small one by Matt Wuerker that was good, though unpretty:


Yay, I figured out how to save them and send them. I hadn't seen the Matt Bors, and thanks for the Wuerker cartoon.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Yay, I figured out how to save them and send them. I hadn't seen the Matt Bors, and thanks for the Wuerker cartoon.


Uh-oh. You're going to be posting cartoons all over the place, like Janeway.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Uh-oh. You're going to be posting cartoons all over the place, like Janeway.


Only the really good ones.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been missing that laughter. Nice to read your voice.


TY, ;-)


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

How does one go about posting cartoons? Do you have to save them to your computer & then upload them, or is there an easier way?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

sumpleby said:


> How does one go about posting cartoons? Do you have to save them to your computer & then upload them, or is there an easier way?


Right click and select "save as" on the menu. Save them to your pictures folder.

I can post when I reply to somebody by clicking on the browse then selecting the cartoon from my saved pictures.

I don't know for sure how to start a thread with a new cartoon. There are some terrific members who do so. Maybe if you clicked to PM the OP of one of the cartoon offerings s/he would be able to give you the rest of the story.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

sumpleby said:


> How does one go about posting cartoons? Do you have to save them to your computer & then upload them, or is there an easier way?


I love to use that snip feature.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> I love to use that snip feature.


What snip feature?


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> What snip feature?


let me run down to the computer and check.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> What snip feature?


It appears to be a Windows 7 feature. 
I do think I saw something about XP, which probably means that it must have been on Vista. 
It is called Snipping Tool and does all sorts of great captures. 
A search calls up lots of info.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm beginning to suspect - okay, I've known for a while - that you have no idea what you're talking about. Of course, if I prove you're wrong, you can just make the same accusation again, but I've never complained about everybody being mean to me, or anybody other than your anti-Semitic friend.
> 
> Don't forget you're the one who got on the Domestic Violence thread to complain about how mean we are to you (plural), and how abusive I am, to women who'd been beaten and thrown out of their homes, or had daughters killed by abusive husbands. I'd like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you.


June 15, 2014 this thread.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> June 15, 2014 this thread.


That is a date not an example.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jellen said:


> That is a date not an example.


Thank you. Don't you just love it when a direct question is answered - - with something totally not the answer requested? I for one welcome you as you have been a consistent voice of reason since you joined.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

jellen said:


> It appears to be a Windows 7 feature.
> I do think I saw something about XP, which probably means that it must have been on Vista.
> It is called Snipping Tool and does all sorts of great captures.
> A search calls up lots of info.


I found it and now I need to study it. Our library has classes in computer competency, and this is one I will request for them to add to their curriculum.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thank you. Don't you just love it when a direct question is answered - - with something totally not the answer requested? I for one welcome you as you have been a consistent voice of reason since you joined.


LOL, reason and not necessarily rational, I Yam what I am. 
Thanks.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I found it and now I need to study it. Our library has classes in computer competency, and this is one I will request for them to add to their curriculum.


I have not figured out all of the uses yet, it just keeps getting better.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> The sea food truck sounds like a good idea. There's a fish store in Gloucester that we used to go to when we stayed there one summer. I hope they got their fish right off the boat, as their ads implied, but in any case the fish seemed fresh.


It would be hard not to get fresh fish in Gloucester.
I was hunting for (OMG, it is a good thing my parents will never know) frozen fish the other day. Checked the package of some salmon, it named a company in a city up the street and around the corner which is known for large fleets of fishing boats. Great, thinks the man behind the curtain, except when you read a few lines down. The box revealed this little phrase "Made in China". What the what?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> June 15, 2014 this thread.


You could at least have given a page, if not copied my message to demonstrate how mean I am.

The first post on June 15 was this snarky message from you, referring to me:



soloweygirl said:


> Not crazy. She's jealous of your new friendship with Wombat.


which I responded to in kind. Why do you start things if you don't like how they turn out?

Or did you mean


Poor Purl said:


> Oh, moth. At first I thought you wrote: Solo, a big mouth, flew in my apt. I didn't know she could fly.


Is this "abuse"? I was funny at your expense, but you did the same thing to me (except that you weren't all that funny).

So all you can come up with is you saying something to purposely piss me off, and when you succeed, complaining that I've abused you?

Do you even know what abuse is? A parent can abuse his/her child because the child is smaller and dependent and the parent has the power. A boss can abuse an employee because an employee depends on keeping the job and the boss has the power. A husband/boyfriend who's bigger than his partner can commit abuse because she probably depends on him and he has power. Do you get the necessary conditions for abuse or do I have to come up with more examples.

So tell me, what power do I have over you that transforms simple snark into abuse? None that I know of. And if you don't like being "abused," why do you start things you know I'll respond to? Now, if I felt like, I can point to a few examples of you insulting me for no reason that I could see. Have I gone crying to anyone about it (as you accused me of doing)?

I could go further, but I won't until it's clear you get the point.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> It would be hard not to get fresh fish in Gloucester.
> I was hunting for (OMG, it is a good thing my parents will never know) frozen fish the other day. Checked the package of some salmon, it named a company in a city up the street and around the corner which is known for large fleets of fishing boats. Great, thinks the man behind the curtain, except when you read a few lines down. The box revealed this little phrase "Made in China". What the what?


Wow. The fleets of fishing boats actually made it all the way to China?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

PP is funny and also very witty so just don't mess with her if you cannot keep up with her speed. Sometimes it is not smart to mess with the Big Girls.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> It appears to be a Windows 7 feature.
> I do think I saw something about XP, which probably means that it must have been on Vista.
> It is called Snipping Tool and does all sorts of great captures.
> A search calls up lots of info.


I'm using XP. I'll look it up and see whether I can use it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> PP is funny and also very witty so just don't mess with her if you cannot keep up with her speed. Sometimes it is not smart to mess with the Big Girls.


Sometimes it's not smart to mess with anyone, if you can't tolerate being messed with yourself.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Sometimes it's not smart to mess with anyone, if you can't tolerate being messed with yourself.


Yes Sir-re Mam. If you can't skate, get out of the rink.


----------



## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Sometimes it's not smart to mess with anyone, if you can't tolerate being messed with yourself.


Great advice.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Only the really good ones.


They wouldn't even have to be that good! And I am sure all yours would be.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Best of luck, will be thinking about you!!


Thanks -- this was the worst of the two - tomorrow I can lie and read while the heart beat is slowed down and the dye given then the test. It is what it is -- amazing what they can do.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Is this "abuse"? I was funny at your expense, but you did the same thing to me (except that you weren't all that funny).
> 
> So all you can come up with is you saying something to purposely piss me off, and when you succeed, complaining that I've abused you?
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Sometimes I lose all patience. I go along for a while and then start wondering why anything has to be thrown back in anyone's face, or whether someone altered some posts, or assessing someone here where all we have are some pretty dead words on a page unless we use emoticons, is attractive or fun. This seems like a waste of time. Others have talked about this. I've gone on and on myself.
> 
> I responded to a post of yours, but what I said easily could be said about a bunch of this topic's participants, no matter who. I probably should have have hit "Reply" and made a general post, instead of quoting you. Think about what I said to you as applying to everyone who feels the need to chew on the unchangeable attributes of anyone around here.


It has been going on since before the first Obama election win and will go on forever no matter who is running. They have started attacking Hilary already- It amazes me how personal and nasty they feel they can get - they don't seem (from the view point of an outsider - to have anyone running against her. I wonder why anyone would deliberately run to be crucified like they will her. She is pretty darned brave and strong to even be considering running. I hope she does as she is a tough cookies and I don't think they will ever succeed in intimidating her. The hate part is what I don't understand. Never will -- they are such 'good kind people ' and yet has anyone seen what they Call Neutral Bridges ?

It is a thread that is still trying to build a bridge and it is called 
N-------- B--tches on that thread by one of the group. What kind of people are they? I admire those who have enough courage to post there even once in awhile. It was suggested by one of them, a couple of others have joined in and my hat is off to them. I think it would take courage to go there when so much nastiness is the result. Most don't want it to go well -- it is easier to preach hatred to poeple you don't know. Heaven help it if too many of them found out that we are people like they are but with different ideas and beliefs, which is what the US and Canada stand for. It is like children in school- don't be different, and better to go with the flow that stand up and be counted - even if you know that the 
reason it was started was a good reason, agreed on by some of their people even suggested by one - who is one who does drop around as do 3 or 4 at the most others.

We are not asking or suggesting there that people change their Politics -- we are just suggesting that maybe if we knew each other better we might understand each other better. But that only works if people want to build a bridge. The person who re named the thread obviously believes ridicule is better than building a bridge.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> It has been going on since before the first Obama election win and will go on forever no matter who is running. They have started attacking Hilary already- It amazes me how personal and nasty they feel they can get - they don't seem (from the view point of an outsider - to have anyone running against her. I wonder why anyone would deliberately run to be crucified like they will her. She is pretty darned brave and strong to even be considering running. I hope she does as she is a tough cookies and I don't think they will ever succeed in intimidating her. The hate part is what I don't understand. Never will -- they are such 'good kind people ' and yet has anyone seen what they Call Neutral Bridges ?
> 
> It is a thread that is still trying to build a bridge and it is called
> N-------- B--tches on that thread by one of the group. What kind of people are they? I admire those who have enough courage to post there even once in awhile. It was suggested by one of them, a couple of others have joined in and my hat is off to them. I think it would take courage to go there when so much nastiness is the result. Most don't want it to go well -- it is easier to preach hatred to poeple you don't know. Heaven help it if too many of them found out that we are people like they are but with different ideas and beliefs, which is what the US and Canada stand for. It is like children in school- don't be different, and better to go with the flow that stand up and be counted - even if you know that the
> ...


You are so right, Shirley. I visited D & P some time ago and found a nasty sort of go away we are not interested in anyone who doesn't agree with us attitude. It wasn't everybody, just two or three hard core nasty women. So many of the regulars there have visited WOW and NB and been decent, reasonable, and quite often pleasant. But mostly I found it to be boring aren't we wonderful sorts of postings. I visit maybe once a month but don't post anything. Same old same old with one in particular queening it. Sort of like the Red Queen. Life is too short to go about beating a dead horse.

It is a shame, too. One of the very conservative women in particular has participated here and we have exchanged ideas. We will never agree as far as politics or a couple of other hot button topics, but we are respectful of each other's views and especially, we are respectful to each other as fellow human beings and craftspeople.

Please don't let it eat at you. It is not worth it. Just concentrate on you and your husband staying as healthy as you can and on your inspiring work with color and texture.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You are so right, Shirley. I visited D & P some time ago and found a nasty sort of go away we are not interested in anyone who doesn't agree with us attitude. It wasn't everybody, just two or three hard core nasty women. So many of the regulars there have visited WOW and NB and been decent, reasonable, and quite often pleasant. But mostly I found it to be boring aren't we wonderful sorts of postings. I visit maybe once a month but don't post anything. Same old same old with one in particular queening it. Sort of like the Red Queen. Life is too short to go about beating a dead horse.
> 
> It is a shame, too. One of the very conservative women in particular has participated here and we have exchanged ideas. We will never agree as far as politics or a couple of other hot button topics, but we are respectful of each other's views and especially, we are respectful to each other as fellow human beings and craftspeople.
> 
> Please don't let it eat at you. It is not worth it. Just concentrate on you and your husband staying as healthy as you can and on your inspiring work with color and texture.


-------------
Actually I just lurked the other day for the first time since I got into their bad books by suggesting that KPG join us and let the 
Obamacare subject go to another thread. First time back and last time. All it does is cause disappointment - obviously at least half of them are not interested in trying for a bridge. Sad though.

It isn't eating at me -- I know my own feelings, I know myself and know my faults -- and there are many -- one thing I am not is a sneak, nor do I have ulterior motives - and I say what I believe- If they choose to twist things they are the ones with the problem. I know myself and they don't really bother me - they choose to ignore what I am - as I don't agree with hate filled posts on either side. I have made that clear - and I have spoken my feelings- they twist it and make me out to be a two faced person. So be it.

I have had a wonderful time with the Color Conversation workshop. It sort of just 'happened' but it is going so well and the workshop has been so productive. I love opening doors to new thoughts and ideas- and, I am half way through my tests and things are looking as if it might be okay. Not at all sure though -so will wait to see.

Thanks for your constant support and the support of all the rest here. Take care.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> -------------
> Actually I just lurked the other day for the first time since I got into their bad books by suggesting that KPG join us and let the
> Obamacare subject go to another thread. First time back and last time. All it does is cause disappointment - obviously at least half of them are not interested in trying for a bridge. Sad though.
> 
> ...


And you also, Shirley. Best of luck with the tests.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Yes Sir-re Mam. If you can't skate, get out of the rink.


or, if you can't swim, get out of the river, ocean or pool!!! :wink: :shock:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

repeat post - sorry


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> or, if you can't swim, get out of the river, ocean or pool!!! :wink: :shock:


Even if you can swim, please don't pee in the pool.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Even if you can swim, please don't pee in the pool.


Right!!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> -------------
> Actually I just lurked the other day for the first time since I got into their bad books by suggesting that KPG join us and let the
> Obamacare subject go to another thread. First time back and last time. All it does is cause disappointment - obviously at least half of them are not interested in trying for a bridge. Sad though.
> 
> ...


I've seen how some of them talk to you and find it upsetting. The Color Conversation is really nice; I even tried to get the members to talk about you, and all they said were nice things.

Don't let anything here stress you out. Save it for your test. Good luck.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Even if you can swim, please don't pee in the pool.


Unless, of course, you really can't wait.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've seen how some of them talk to you and find it upsetting. The Color Conversation is really nice; I even tried to get the members to talk about you, and all they said were nice things.
> 
> Don't let anything here stress you out. Save it for your test. Good luck.


Thanks for your support and kindness to me. I value all of you as friends. Who knows, maybe we will get to New York, New York!

I would so love to go and meet you and all the others -- there are quite a few of you. Even if it doesn't happen it is a nice dream and thought.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've seen how some of them talk to you and find it upsetting. The Color Conversation is really nice; I even tried to get the members to talk about you, and all they said were nice things.
> 
> Don't let anything here stress you out. Save it for your test. Good luck.


They are a wonderful group and have become my friends as most of the students have over the last 20 months - I am fortunate. A few that would rather see me in a different light are welcome to do so.

I appreciated and thank you for your posts and those of the color group. I am so amazed and pleased at the enthusiasm. I am so glad to see 3 or 4 of you from this thread there too. Nice to have support from my friends here and on the Knitting tea party -


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

Best of luck, D1234. 
Make it a great bodice ripper and you will fool them all!



Designer1234 said:


> Thanks -- this was the worst of the two - tomorrow I can lie and read while the heart beat is slowed down and the dye given then the test. It is what it is -- amazing what they can do.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Thanks for your support and kindness to me. I value all of you as friends. Who knows, maybe we will get to New York, New York!
> 
> I would so love to go and meet you and all the others -- there are quite a few of you. Even if it doesn't happen it is a nice dream and thought.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Please don't hold your breath waiting for a reasonable answer.



Poor Purl said:


> Is this "abuse"? I was funny at your expense, but you did the same thing to me (except that you weren't all that funny).
> 
> So all you can come up with is you saying something to purposely piss me off, and when you succeed, complaining that I've abused you?
> 
> ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Please don't hold your breath waiting for a reasonable answer.


"Reasonable" is not what I'd expect. In fact, I'm not sure "answer" is what I'd expect. What I should expect is at least an admission that maybe she's not always as nice and sweet as she pretends to be, and I'm not the big bad boogeyman. But I don't expect that either. I guess I expect nothing, and that's what I'll get.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good assessment.



Poor Purl said:


> "Reasonable" is not what I'd expect. In fact, I'm not sure "answer" is what I'd expect. What I should expect is at least an admission that maybe she's not always as nice and sweet as she pretends to be, and I'm not the big bad boogeyman. But I don't expect that either. I guess I expect nothing, and that's what I'll get.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> "Reasonable" is not what I'd expect. In fact, I'm not sure "answer" is what I'd expect. What I should expect is at least an admission that maybe she's not always as nice and sweet as she pretends to be, and I'm not the big bad boogeyman. But I don't expect that either. I guess I expect nothing, and that's what I'll get.


What you have is your self respect and a bunch of friends who appreciate and value you.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> What you have is your self respect and a bunch of friends who appreciate and value you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

jellen said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup:


So true and I am one of them as are we all.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You think so? Maybe I'm jealous of her friendship with you. Did that ever occur to you?
> 
> BTW, has it ever occurred to you to MYOB? Every time someone says something the littlest bit negative to or about me, you're there nodding and panting with your paws out, begging for a pat on the head.
> 
> Most people would find that abusive.


PP you said you "would like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you."

We'll, here it is sweetie. Granted it isn't on par with what your group of friends did to Wombat and Karveer, but it is verbal abuse nevertheless. How convenient you managed to skip right over it. As they say in video gamelans GAME OVER.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> It has been going on since before the first Obama election win and will go on forever no matter who is running. They have started attacking Hilary already- It amazes me how personal and nasty they feel they can get - they don't seem (from the view point of an outsider - to have anyone running against her. I wonder why anyone would deliberately run to be crucified like they will her. She is pretty darned brave and strong to even be considering running. I hope she does as she is a tough cookies and I don't think they will ever succeed in intimidating her. The hate part is what I don't understand. Never will -- they are such 'good kind people ' and yet has anyone seen what they Call Neutral Bridges ?
> 
> It is a thread that is still trying to build a bridge and it is called
> N-------- B--tches on that thread by one of the group. What kind of people are they? I admire those who have enough courage to post there even once in awhile. It was suggested by one of them, a couple of others have joined in and my hat is off to them. I think it would take courage to go there when so much nastiness is the result. Most don't want it to go well -- it is easier to preach hatred to poeple you don't know. Heaven help it if too many of them found out that we are people like they are but with different ideas and beliefs, which is what the US and Canada stand for. It is like children in school- don't be different, and better to go with the flow that stand up and be counted - even if you know that the
> ...


The person that called it 'Neutered Britches' is me, and I got the idea from This thread or LOL or, another thread that's mainstay are the leftists, when it referred to Denim and Pearls as ' Diapers and Dentures' 'Diapers and Dungarees' and most likely some that I missed. You didn't think that was wrong did you. You blame others for having blinders on, yet you can't see past yours.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> What you have is your self respect and a bunch of friends who appreciate and value you.


Thank you. A bunch of very valuable friends, even if we don't give each other little hearts.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

galinipper said:


> The person that called it 'Neutered Britches' is me, and I got the idea from This thread or LOL or, another thread that's mainstay are the leftists, when it referred to Denim and Pearls as ' Diapers and Dentures' 'Diapers and Dungarees' and most likely some that I missed. You didn't think that was wrong did you. You blame others for having blinders on, yet you can't see past yours.


I found your renaming Neutral Britches odd in the beginning, but now I understand your point. But what I thought was really disturbing is that when Designer responded to your renaming the was she edited your name change did not imply Britches but made it appear to be vulgar. Wonder why that was done? So thank you for clarifying your comment and not allow people to think the only way you communicate is through classless and inappropriate word usage.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> PP you said you "would like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you."
> 
> We'll, here it is sweetie. Granted it isn't on par with what your group of friends did to Wombat and Karveer, but it is verbal abuse nevertheless. How convenient you managed to skip right over it. As they say in video gamelans GAME OVER.


Then you really didn't get what I said. YOU WERE THE ONE WHO DECIDED TO START SOMETHING WITH ME; the message you quote was my response to you. I would say that was not just called-for; you purposely asked for it.

What Wombat wrote to me and my friends, without us doing anything to him/her, was as bad as anything we responded with. S/he started out insulting us, calling us names, and, as with your message on June 15, we simply responded in kind.

I had nothing to do with what was said to Karverr, so please don't use it as proof that I'm a meanie. The way you people went after Susanmos, who never told Yarnie to "enjoy" her seizure, though you repeated that lie dozens of times before she threw the actual message in your faces, was no better than anything they said to Karverr.

You also still don't understand what abuse is, verbal or otherwise. You would have to believe me to be of such importance that when I'm snarky to you, you feel it as abuse.

You can continue to call me abusive or speak of me as the worst person around, but you've given at least as much as you've gotten, and it's becoming obvious that you're equally or even more at fault. Do you really expect people to read your insults and just ignore them?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> The person that called it 'Neutered Britches' is me, and I got the idea from This thread or LOL or, another thread that's mainstay are the leftists, when it referred to Denim and Pearls as ' Diapers and Dentures' 'Diapers and Dungarees' and most likely some that I missed. You didn't think that was wrong did you. You blame others for having blinders on, yet you can't see past yours.


Gee, you may be younger than I am, but you sound a lot like an AOW, _which was the opening salvo in the name-calling._ Do you really believe you can call other people names without it coming back to bite you?


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I found your renaming Neutral Britches odd in the beginning, but now I understand your point. But what I thought was really disturbing is that when Designer responded to your renaming the was she edited your name change did not imply Britches but made it appear to be vulgar. Wonder why that was done? So thank you for clarifying your comment and not allow people to think the only way you communicate is through classless and inappropriate word usage.


I knew the edit was done that way just for that purpose. Thanks for noticing that and bringing that up in a public post. Alot of people like to act victimized, all the while they are weaving a web.


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> PP you said you "would like to see even one example of uncalled-for abuse on my part, especially to you."
> 
> We'll, here it is sweetie. Granted it isn't on par with what your group of friends did to Wombat and Karveer, but it is verbal abuse nevertheless. How convenient you managed to skip right over it. As they say in video gamelans GAME OVER.


Anyone have a yawning emoticon?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> I found your renaming Neutral Britches odd in the beginning, but now I understand your point. But what I thought was really disturbing is that when Designer responded to your renaming the was she edited your name change did not imply Britches but made it appear to be vulgar. Wonder why that was done? So thank you for clarifying your comment and not allow people to think the only way you communicate is through classless and inappropriate word usage.


Probably Shirley misread the word; she's not as young as you are, and though I don't know for certain, her vision may not be as good as yours. Couldn't you at least give her credit for not being as vulgar as you thought? And Little Nipper renamed it *Neutered* Britches, not Neutral.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I knew the edit was done that way just for that purpose. Thanks for noticing that and bringing that up in a public post. Alot of people like to act victimized, all the while they are weaving a web.


Are you nuts? What kind of web do you think Shirley is weaving? Or even the whole bunch of us?


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## jellen (Jun 15, 2014)

I am going to take off for a while, it is bad enough to be subjected to rehashing of material that makes sense. 
To try to make sense of the nonsensical is just too far beyond my ability to maintain decorum.



Poor Purl said:


> Gee, you may be younger than I am, but you sound a lot like an AOW, _which was the opening salvo in the name-calling._ Do you really believe you can call other people names without it coming back to bite you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

jellen said:


> Anyone have a yawning emoticon?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Probably Shirley misread the word; she's not as young as you are, and though I don't know for certain, her vision may not be as good as yours. Couldn't you at least give her credit for not being as vulgar as you thought? And Little Nipper renamed it *Neutered* Britches, not Neutral.


Let's lock the playground for the day and retire to more pleasant environs. The she said, s/he said back and forth is so tiresome. Let's let the naysayers have their last word, go "gerecht mishugenah", and enjoy our pleasant friendly interchanges among all the people who are interested in being pleasant and friendly.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Gee, you may be younger than I am, but you sound a lot like an AOW, _which was the opening salvo in the name-calling._ Do you really believe you can call other people names without it coming back to bite you?


I actually thought diaper, dungrees, and all that was funny, You never saw a complaint from me. But lets be fair, the name calling started before you and me so whoever gets the 'who started it' title is likely gone. Yes I am younger than you and no I didn't believe it would not come back to me the only thing missing is the bite.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> I actually thought diaper, dungrees, and all that was funny, You never saw a complaint from me. But lets be fair, the name calling started before you and me so whoever gets the 'who started it' title is likely gone. Yes I am younger than you and no I didn't believe it would not come back to me the only thing missing is the bite.


You're right; as in the Middle East, the beginning is lost in history. To be truthful, I had no problem with Neutered Britches, with or without the _r_.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Probably Shirley misread the word; she's not as young as you are, and though I don't know for certain, her vision may not be as good as yours. Couldn't you at least give her credit for not being as vulgar as you thought? And Little Nipper renamed it *Neutered* Britches, not Neutral.


It was a toss-up between 'neutered britches' and 'nuclear biscuits'


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> It was a toss-up between 'neutered britches' and 'nuclear biscuits'


Nuclear Biscuits is great. Not entirely comprehensible but very funny-sounding.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

galinipper said:


> It was a toss-up between 'neutered britches' and 'nuclear biscuits'


I do think "nutritious biscuits" would be easier on the digestive system. Hate to think of what the nuclear ones would do to one's tum and the plumbing!

And aren't Levi's 501's neutral britches? And if they are worn too tight, they might even be neutering britches.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You're right; as in the Middle East, the beginning is lost in history. To be truthful, I had no problem with Neutered Britches, with or without the _r_.


To be honest, I didn't tie britches in with btchs, I was thinking Dungrees as I typed britches. 
That there is the whole story.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I do think "nutritious biscuits" would be easier on the digestive system. Hate to think of what the nuclear ones would do to one's tum and the plumbing!
> 
> And aren't Levi's 501's neutral britches? And if they are worn too tight, they might even be neutering britches.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> To be honest, I didn't tie britches in with btchs, I was thinking Dungrees as I typed britches.
> That there is the whole story.


Thank you, ma'am. Such a short story, and yet look at how it morphed into a big deal. It gets so tiresome, examining in detail what people write just to be able to catch them doing something _baad_.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

galinipper said:


> To be honest, I didn't tie britches in with btchs, I was thinking Dungrees as I typed britches.
> That there is the whole story.


I've been wanting to ask whether you were the person who thought up VodkaLisa? I thought that was pretty funny.


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## galinipper (Apr 30, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've been wanting to ask whether you were the person who thought up VodkaLisa? I thought that was pretty funny.


Good observation you have...
Yes, but I forget the picture I posted with that, that was a first for me and I realized I couldn't carry it any further,I have trouble with just one of me. I don't know how that old girl does it, she is past due for another drive-by, but I must say, in my opinion, I find her boring and pretty sure I'm not alone.

I've been wanting to ask, are you vocallisa?


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. A bunch of very valuable friends, even if we don't give each other little hearts.


Or cream cheese recipes.
:lol:


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