# using the punch card



## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

Can anyone tell me how to know which punch card pattern to use. Like for tuck, lace, fairisle. I have prepunched cards and am trying to learn to use them, have watched youtube, read manual etc. how do you know when to use a pattern and for which design? Hope this makes sense to someone, it is clear as mud to me. LOL
khill


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## Elis (Nov 1, 2011)

It depends on what you are intending to knit. If you lay a punchcard on a smooth dark surface the pattern will often become clearer. Lace patterns almost appear as if they have only a scattering of holes, at random and it is quite difficlt to read the design without a good deal of experience - your manual should help here. Multicolour patterns(so-called fairisle) mske it easy to read the pattern and sometimes indications for colour changes are marked in the margins - again, go to your manual. Some of these cards can be used for slip stitch or weaving. Both slip and tuck stitch cards show a very distinct pattern with lots of punched holes. They are used to thicken the knitting without having to use a heavier yarn and have the advantage that they lie flat without the stocking stitch curl. To differentiate, needles cannot tuck over more than one stitch which makes it easier to detect when you are selecting. Knitting in tuck stitch (usually the purl side is the 'right'side) takes many more rows but compensate in giving greater width. Slip stitch, like multicolour, in many yarns will drop in length and thus narrow in use. If you select a "fairisle" try to find one which doesn't give a strand of more than 5 stiches across the back of the work (a 'float' in tech. terms)until you have learned the methods of dealing with the problem. If you have a knitweave facility on your machine slip, tuck and colour punchcards can possibly used and there are many handwork techniques to employ as well. As for uses - colour knitting - whatever you want, tuck stitch for heavier sweater, jackets or household item, stand up well in wear. Slip stitch - rather more formal than tuck and is prone to spoil with much use as the floats which are on the right side, get pulled in use. Good patterns for your best cardi, but not for junior in the garden! Slip stitch usually looks its best when worked with a shiny yarn.


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

thank you Elis, I am trying to take all of this in. Will save your comment and study it over and over. when the light goes on and I get it, I know I will say why didn't I see that before. but until then my mind won't wrap around it.

thanks so much


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## jean2roy57 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hi K

I also have a punchcard machine.

Many prepunched lace cards have an L next to the card number. Brother and Knitmaster (Silver Reed ) machines work lace in different ways. Normally a Brother lace card has symbols along the side indicating when to use the lace carriage and when to use the lace carriage.
For tuck knitting the card will have mainly puched out holes, these are the ones which do not tuck. The non punched minute holes will indicate the needles will tuck and in a row on the card no two unpunched hole should be next to each other, and in a column there wshould be only one, two or three unpunched holes together.
For Fair Isle knitting, hold the punched card up to the light and you will see a pattern.

Hope this helps

Good luck with your knitting

Jean ( Norfolk UK)


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

Great info Ellis.
WHat you can also do is take the original cards that came with your machine and your manual and look att he page which tells you what designs each card will knit. Many are double duty. THen take out all the cards that say they work with Tuck stitch and see what do they have in common. 
The do it again for the other stitches. THey will all have something in common. Write down what you see and then you will be able to see when you look at a card what it can be used for. Do a test sample with it.
I think it is with tuck, or maybe slip that you can't have more than 4 rows high and 2 (usually 1) rows wide with holes punched and surrounded by non punched holes making the pattern. WHich is it Kate?



Elis said:


> It depends on what you are intending to knit. If you lay a punchcard on a smooth dark surface the pattern will often become clearer. Lace patterns almost appear as if they have only a scattering of holes, at random and it is quite difficlt to read the design without a good deal of experience - your manual should help here. Multicolour patterns(so-called fairisle) mske it easy to read the pattern and sometimes indications for colour changes are marked in the margins - again, go to your manual. Some of these cards can be used for slip stitch or weaving. Both slip and tuck stitch cards show a very distinct pattern with lots of punched holes. They are used to thicken the knitting without having to use a heavier yarn and have the advantage that they lie flat without the stocking stitch curl. To differentiate, needles cannot tuck over more than one stitch which makes it easier to detect when you are selecting. Knitting in tuck stitch (usually the purl side is the 'right'side) takes many more rows but compensate in giving greater width. Slip stitch, like multicolour, in many yarns will drop in length and thus narrow in use. If you select a "fairisle" try to find one which doesn't give a strand of more than 5 stiches across the back of the work (a 'float' in tech. terms)until you have learned the methods of dealing with the problem. If you have a knitweave facility on your machine slip, tuck and colour punchcards can possibly used and there are many handwork techniques to employ as well. As for uses - colour knitting - whatever you want, tuck stitch for heavier sweater, jackets or household item, stand up well in wear. Slip stitch - rather more formal than tuck and is prone to spoil with much use as the floats which are on the right side, get pulled in use. Good patterns for your best cardi, but not for junior in the garden! Slip stitch usually looks its best when worked with a shiny yarn.


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## KateWood (Apr 30, 2011)

On the Brother machines, a tuck st pattern will typically have only 1 stitch that tucks flanked by 1 or more stitches that knit. The punched spaces knit and the unpunched spaces tuck. Depending on the gauge of your yarn you could tuck stitches for 2 to 4 rows, possibly more with very fine yarn.


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

I thought it was the Tuck stitch. Thanks Kate.


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## susieknitter (Jul 14, 2011)

I agree with Euvid, great info from Elis but also great info from Jean. I don't use a punch card machine that often so I found Jean's and Elsi's information interesting. Most of it I did already know, but other bits of info were new to me. I never thought of using a shiny yarn when doing slip stitch and can see that this would look far nicer. Thanks for telling us that Elis, keep up the good work, and thanks to Jean for explaining the card info so well also. :thumbup:


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## boots (Jan 24, 2011)

Many thanks to Elis and Jean. Printed off that good info.
And, thanks K Hill for asking the question.


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## roamin in the gloamin (Mar 2, 2012)

I have a list for the Knitmaster cards which I can scan in and pm to anyone who would like a copy. showing which number card doess Tuck-Slip-Jacquard-Single Motif-Weaving-PunchLace-Tuck lace. My ribber cards for that make have an R-2 on them as well as the card number. What I did when I first started was knit up a sample of all the cards...and all the stitches, you can always rip it all out again or save it as samples


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## brinawitch (Aug 16, 2011)

i have a question to ad to this. only because i keep seeing these videos that talk about using a,b,c,d what not on the cards i know my cards have an a on one side b on the other and so on; does this make a difference in placing the card in the slot? do you put it in differently depending on the stitch you choose? if it doesn't why are these letters there?


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## roamin in the gloamin (Mar 2, 2012)

yes..... it reverses the pattern or turns it upside down IYKWIM, it's usual to place A at the bottom and facing you - well that's how I do it


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

The ones that have the ABCD are SInger Cards so they start reading the pattern 5 rows down[

quote=brinawitch]i have a question to ad to this. only because i keep seeing these videos that talk about using a,b,c,d what not on the cards i know my cards have an a on one side b on the other and so on; does this make a difference in placing the card in the slot? do you put it in differently depending on the stitch you choose? if it doesn't why are these letters there?[/quote]


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

The ones that have the ABCD are SInger Cards so they start reading the pattern 5 rows down[

quote=brinawitch]i have a question to ad to this. only because i keep seeing these videos that talk about using a,b,c,d what not on the cards i know my cards have an a on one side b on the other and so on; does this make a difference in placing the card in the slot? do you put it in differently depending on the stitch you choose? if it doesn't why are these letters there?[/quote]


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

my problem is that no punch cards came with my 881 machine, and the ones I bought are suppose to be the originals but don't match the ones in the book. the instructions in my manual seem simple enough but when I try them they don't work, Jean gave good advice also and I will retry what you both say and maybe something will work. Thanks so much
khill


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

very good question, would also like to know the answer to that, some of the ones I have alsom have abcd as you say


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

Thanks, that helps


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

hi Jean, thank you for your help and it makes sense except I don't understand nonpunched minute holes. could you explain that, I will be so happy to understand all of the terminology for knitting. 
khill


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## k hill (Nov 2, 2011)

would this help on a brother 881, if so. yes I would like a copy. Thank you
khill


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## roamin in the gloamin (Mar 2, 2012)

http://www.needlesofsteel.org.uk/stdcards/brother_820_cards.pdf

on that link if you click on the very first of the choices HK820 for brother machines it brings up the complete range of cards For the knitter, I believe the ones marked 20A to 25A are the lace cards - don't quote me tho' as I don't use a brother machine. Oh and be patient it takes a while for the complete set of cards to load.

My sheet explaining which card does what - isn't applicable to the Brother machine, so not worth me pm'ing it.

Could you match your cards with any of those listed on the needles of steel site?


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## Elis (Nov 1, 2011)

The Brother cards have no ABCD markings. The basic set supplied with the 881 are set J. Probably the most used card is Knitmaster card 3- xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx for 4 rows
x xxx xxx xxx xxx x for 4 rows, repeated over punchcard. The Brother card has a similar card which operates over 3 rather 4 rows. There is available a thin book, just called The Card 3 Book, which Kate Armitage (one of the early M K gurus) wrote in 1985. For anyone who wants to learn the use of punchcards this is real groundwork. From the one card she demonstrates 89 different uses for the single card - to list a few; fairisle, tuck, slip, weaving, tuck lace, varied tuck ribs, punch ribs, multicoloured tuck. edgings, lace trims, braids ...and so on, into aran type stitches and hairpin lace. If you are interested the book is from Metropolitan -www.metropolitanmachineknitting.co.uk. I got my copy many years ago but I believe it now costs around £6.00, plus post . 
Someone mentioned the minute holes in some punchcards. These don't feature on Brother cards, but are on punchcard rolls which many people buy and use to punch out cards for their own use - and at less cost than buying ready punched cards. The holes make it possible to punch absolutely accurately placed holes, which are essential if the patterns are to work.


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## roamin in the gloamin (Mar 2, 2012)

Elis I agree with you - I have the CARD 3 book as well as the CARD 1 and both are jam packed with information.

here is the link to all the cards on needles of steel (I guessed that first lot - wrongly - knew someone more knowledgeable could fix it tho')

http://www.needlesofsteel.org.uk/punchcardsets.html


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## euvid (Apr 2, 2011)

THe cards are SIngers so they would not be in your book. If you look up a singer 700 manual on line you will see what your cards look like and how to use them. You will have to start 2 numbers up when you put in your card- on # 3 line as the Brothers read 7 lines down and the cards are made for reaing 5 lines down. So if you put the 1st line you see at 3 the machine will read it correctly.

SOnny from HKknits sells the Brother cards on eBay and his store.



k hill said:


> my problem is that no punch cards came with my 881 machine, and the ones I bought are suppose to be the originals but don't match the ones in the book. the instructions in my manual seem simple enough but when I try them they don't work, Jean gave good advice also and I will retry what you both say and maybe something will work. Thanks so much
> khill


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## brinawitch (Aug 16, 2011)

euvid said:


> THe cards are SIngers so they would not be in your book. If you look up a singer 700 manual on line you will see what your cards look like and how to use them. You will have to start 2 numbers up when you put in your card- on # 3 line as the Brothers read 7 lines down and the cards are made for reaing 5 lines down. So if you put the 1st line you see at 3 the machine will read it correctly.
> 
> SOnny from HKknits sells the Brother cards on eBay and his store.
> 
> you wouldn't happen to have a link to his store on eBay? i can't seem to find it.


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## jean2roy57 (Jun 11, 2012)

Hi

The minute holes are there so that you can locate the correct place to punch a hole when you are punching a blank card. The punch will have a very small spike which will locate the position of the hole to be punched

I hope that answers your question

Regards

Jean


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