# "War on Women" #16



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes damemary, opinion has changed. I cannot abide their brand of hypocrisy any longer.


Yay Wombat.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Welcome to the light.



Wombatnomore said:


> Yes damemary, opinion has changed. I cannot abide their brand of hypocrisy any longer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We all have to find our own way.



Wombatnomore said:


> And Natureschampion is incredibly patient, polite and wise. I must take some leaves out of her book.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huck is an original and a wonderful friend.



Natureschampion said:


> May there be more people like you!  L'chayim!
> 
> Come to think of it, I wish I were a little more like you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> What about the people who make their money by hiring another person to work for them and pay that person from money that came from their father/grandfather? How is it that person earned their money? Especially if said employee's job is to make them money from something like the stock market, which is just moving numbers around, as far as I'm concerned; not work, a game.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Shouldn't it be, though?
> 
> I have have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, "what chance to honest citizens have when the criminals are making the laws?"


Of course it should be against the law...but the inmates are running the asylum. In my darker times I think of a bloody revolution.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes, mistakes indeed. I did appreciate your input on that subject and isn't it interesting that some felt just a little irritated by it? Their prerogative of course.
> 
> Since then, sadly, such tragedy has occurred and continues to occur in the Middle East. I'm struggling to get my head around it to be honest. I'm so upset for the innocent people being killed but at the same time, it is a war.
> 
> How do you think when these atrocities occur? It's so very difficult.


IMHO the atrocities in the Middle East occur because they continue a war that has gone on for thousands of years. IMHO war is not the answer.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, dame!
> 
> It's funny bc no one has Commended my patience before. I tell my mom that people here say I have patience, or they envy my patience (on other threads about knitting mistakes I have overcome) and we get a good laugh. I always said "patience is not one of my few virtues." Interestingly enough, since I have started knitting I have learned much patience. At the same time, I was going through a lot and didn't want people I loved to get hurt as well, so I had to learn some.


A wise person knows when to change. (I'm scaring myself. I sound like a guru. )


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Please stop talking about yourself, not very flattering


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> What about the people who make their money by hiring another person to work for them and pay that person from money that came from their father/grandfather? How is it that person earned their money? Especially if said employee's job is to make them money from something like the stock market, which is just moving numbers around, as far as I'm concerned; not work, a game.


Natureschampion
excellent points.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO the atrocities in the Middle East occur because they continue a war that has gone on for thousands of years. IMHO war is not the answer.


Please understand, I am not supporting the war. I agree with you, war is not the answer. Will there ever be a solution to this conflict? I'm fearful of the answer to that one.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Yay Wombat.


Hi SQM, is your canopy warm today?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Hi SQM, is your canopy warm today?


Come on up. Nature has taken up one bough - the monkey with the funny cigarette, but I have a good bough for you. I hope wombats have good algae in their fur. What is the temp like in Oz? I guess you are in the dead of winter. (This conversation is too pleasant for here. Move to Bridges.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> A wise person knows when to change. (I'm scaring myself. I sound like a guru. )


you are smart so you are allowed.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> Please understand, I am not supporting the war. I agree with you, war is not the answer. Will there ever be a solution to this conflict? I'm fearful of the answer to that one.


Wombatnomore
War is not the answer that is for sure but I am afraid, the conflicts will still be there in a thousand years from now. Conflict is a way of life for some. If you are born into War you most likely see it as a normal. They see nothing that soothes their feelings. I think that if those people would be transplanted into more pleasant surroundings, they would change their ways. When you rarely see a tree, a bush, a blade of grass, anything blooming, never a little stream moving gently through the countryside, it has to be working on one's psyche.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> War is not the answer that is for sure and I am afraid, the conflicts will still be there in a thousand years from now. Conflict is a way of life for some.


Male testosterone. And females who raise kids to be warriors.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

So all that laughing was a delayed reaction?
quote=SQM]The program ended today. Actors did all our plays on Mon and Tues. I thought I wrote a comedy but only my wonderful friends laughed so I am now calling it a drama. I enjoyed the program but I don't see myself as a creative writer - I will stick with information. Thanks for asking.[/quote]


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Especially in the Obama Administration where women are paid less then men. Why is that? 18% less in 2012 and 14% less in 2013. Whatta guy


You can't criticize the person who's trying to get equal pay when the repubs are totally opposed! Get real!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> It's not and she knows it. I won't go into it further, as I do not wish for a fight. She has her right to think what she wants, even if in my eyes she is wrong. In her eyes, we are wrong. What does it matter either way?
> 
> People are suffering; we can at least agree on that.


But it does matter as long as we have such inequality in this country and as long as the uber rich and corporations get away without paying their fair share.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

When they are doing something that is legal it is not criminal. Most of these folks are rich when they take office, they already feel entitled to get richer. 
They really do think that they are smarter than average rather than it being the luck of birth. Recent studies show that most believe that.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/05/14/americans_think_they_re_smarter_than_the_average_american_rich_white_guys.html



Natureschampion said:


> Shouldn't it be, though?
> 
> I have have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, "what chance to honest citizens have when the criminals are making the laws?"


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> There is a law on the books for equal pay. Why don't you blame the supreme law enforcer for not enforcing it. So what would passing another law do, if it is not enforced?


How do you propose the government should go about enforcing the law? Maybe we just rely on the goodness of corporations to follow the law? Then, if they're found to be violating the law we should put them in jail? Corporations are people, you know. I know in your way of thinking the corporations just do what they have to do to make money because that's the purpose of a corporation, after all.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> you are very kind, thank you. I am VERY sure you can do things, I can't. Please share.


Besides being an average knitter, I am a mean baker! I would spend all day baking if I could! But, then I would weigh like 300 pounds! AND the house would be a mess. Thanks for asking.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> The program ended today. Actors did all our plays on Mon and Tues. I thought I wrote a comedy but only my wonderful friends laughed so I am now calling it a drama. I enjoyed the program but I don't see myself as a creative writer - I will stick with information. Thanks for asking.


Playwriting (playwrighting?) is kind of specialized. Maybe short stories are your forte. Or maybe you're right.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> we have known all along that Congress is a pain the butt and that confirms it.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> I have many gripes with people in Office, local, state wide and Federal and I bombard them with so many complaints that I have become very familiar to them. If I do not get a satisfactory answer, I am at their door step as soon as I can and encourage others to do the same. Let us not forget that TV has to fill 24 hours with something and I let the Officials know that I will take it there if I can't get at least a satisfactory answer from them. Never give up or give in. If nothing else I give them as many head aches as they give me.


I applaud you for your diligence. It is hard to keep after it. 
Unfortunately, I know and have to deal with many politicians due to my job. The stories I could tell. What people won't admit is that it is not a republican or democrat issue. Many times while in meetings with various politicians, no one will make a decision. I will hear...we will decide after the election. We can't address that now, it is re-election season. That's too controversial right now...it could hinder our ability to get re-elected. We'll get on that when so and so decides what they are doing. What is (fill in the blank) doing?

I rarely hear someone say- what would be the best for our town? What impact does this have on the citizens? How could this drive future policy?

Does this happen for each and every policy that is brought up? No. However, it happens much more than people realize. The common theme is getting re-elected, not what is in the best interests if the community.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Who is the law enforcer? How do you expect the law to be enforced by any corporation if the chief law enforcer will not enforce it for his own employees?


The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.

Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.

I guess desperate times, call for this desperate measure:

http://www.rove.com/articles/541


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


Ha! You think the Democrats are desperate? What do you call the lawsuit against President Obama? Now that's desperation! If a president disagrees with your party, sue 'im! The recalcitrant babies in the House have accomplished NOTHING for the citizens of the US, but they all picked up their pay checks.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Natureschampion said:


> What the politician endorsing the ad is banking on is that the dupe who believes them is in favor of whoever is funding them. The only people who don't see through them are the people who are already decided, and as you said, the "uninformed consumer". It takes more than an ad to get the undecided's sympathy, I believe. This is bc there ARE ads running from both sides, same story different name and party. The uninformed consumer will also believe whatever they hear, and that depends on their demographics. This is also what the politician is banking on. These people won't bother to go look at who IS backing the man who they are putting their faith into.
> 
> I don't know the statistics of decided, undecided, and uninformed.


Oh! All my guests were welcome! I have had a splendid time with them all! Laughter, good food, beverage, site-seeing, story-telling....we've done it all! It's been a grand summer, albeit, tiring.

No, I didn't read that far back, so probably jumped in with what seemed like an appropriate response without prior knowledge.

You are right, many people won't go and find out who is funding these groups making the ads. However, from experience, it is not always easy to find out who is providing the money. With PAC money, it seems easy to "hide" donors names. Also, it is common practice for PACs to "disguise" themselves by acting like they are grassroots organizations when, in fact, they are really comprised of big money from out of state. It's appalling, to say the least.


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Natureschampion said:


> Shouldn't it be, though?
> 
> I have have said it once, I have said it a thousand times, "what chance to honest citizens have when the criminals are making the laws?"


You nailed it with that one!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Lovely to see more of you. I am well thank you. I enjoy your posts very much Nature (and yes you may call me wombat ) . I'm glad you're enjoying the thread which boasts some very intelligent and thoughtful women.
> 
> And for those women who may doubt me (with good reason I am afraid to say), that is my honest opinion.


Are you implying that the opinion you had of us early in the year was not honest? We were bigots then; no more?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Especially in the Obama Administration where women are paid less then men. Why is that? 18% less in 2012 and 14% less in 2013. Whatta guy


Because he narrowed the difference?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You can't criticize the person who's trying to get equal pay when the repubs are totally opposed! Get real!


Of course she can. In fact, her self-righteousness requires it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who is the law enforcer? How do you expect the law to be enforced by any corporation if the chief law enforcer will not enforce it for his own employees?


Doesn't Congress have to provide the funds to enforce that law?


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Besides being an average knitter, I am a mean baker! I would spend all day baking if I could! But, then I would weigh like 300 pounds! AND the house would be a mess. Thanks for asking.


Frogging123
see I knew you had something on me. I am an o.k. Baker, my Sister is a Master at it just as my Mom was. As to messes, if you are into as many things as I am, I am a Master at making messes and frequently. So what. You need to get into a cookie baking contest with our cookiequeen.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Ha! You think the Democrats are desperate? What do you call the lawsuit against President Obama? Now that's desperation! If a president disagrees with your party, sue 'im! The recalcitrant babies in the House have accomplished NOTHING for the citizens of the US, but they all picked up their pay checks.


Besides, anyone who goes to Karl Rove for advice really is desperate.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
I have to agree that in YOUR World President Obama is seen in a negative but then that started before he even stepped into the Oval Office which shows that your evaluation has not value. He who has the last laugh wins and it ain't you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Frogging123 said:


> Oh! All my guests were welcome! I have had a splendid time with them all! Laughter, good food, beverage, site-seeing, story-telling....we've done it all! It's been a grand summer, albeit, tiring.
> 
> No, I didn't read that far back, so probably jumped in with what seemed like an appropriate response without prior knowledge.
> 
> You are right, many people won't go and find out who is funding these groups making the ads. However, from experience, it is not always easy to find out who is providing the money. With PAC money, it seems easy to "hide" donors names. Also, it is common practice for PACs to "disguise" themselves by acting like they are grassroots organizations when, in fact, they are really comprised of big money from out of state. It's appalling, to say the least.


Frogging123
have you noticed that those Republicans who seek our votes and send out flyers, do no longer list their Party? Same when they solicit via phone, they only give the name and never his/her Party either. Sad when you need to hide your affiliation. The Tea Party sure has made a mess of the once proud GOP.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> It isn't the money, it is the will to do it. He has wasted more money than the presidents before him.


joeysomma
he has? By ending the War in Iraq and slimming down our involvement in Afghanistan? You make the dumbest statements. Let me rephrase that, you repeat the worst crap that others feed you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma wrote:
It isn't the money, it is the will to do it. He has wasted more money than the presidents before him.



Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> he has? By ending the War in Iraq and slimming down our involvement in Afghanistan? You make the dumbest statements. Let me rephrase that, you repeat the worst crap that others feed you.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
says who? The idiotic behavior of the GOP will haunt them for decades. It will be a pleasure to observe the results of their shameful deeds.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


Funny how KPG and liars are drawn to each other
like moths to a flame...


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> see I knew you had something on me. I am an o.k. Baker, my Sister is a Master at it just as my Mom was. As to messes, if you are into as many things as I am, I am a Master at making messes and frequently. So what. You need to get into a cookie baking contest with our cookiequeen.


My husband says my middle name should be messes! I make a lot of them! It also addresses my avatar name--I frog a lot! I like to try new things and am not always successful.

That could prove to be an interesting thread...a cookie contest thread! People have varied opinions about what is the best cookie!


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Frogging123
> have you noticed that those Republicans who seek our votes and send out flyers, do no longer list their Party? Same when they solicit via phone, they only give the name and never his/her Party either. Sad when you need to hide your affiliation. The Tea Party sure has made a mess of the once proud GOP.


I hate to admit this...but I have stopped looking at the junk mail that politicians send to us. When I think about the USPS losing money, maybe they need to raise the rate on junk mail...I sure get a lot!!

I try to locate information from many sources so that I can make a decision. I guess I get disappointed when people play games and say/do things they think we want to hear. I wish someone would come along that would practice what they preach and do what is right...using sound scientific evidence and not be influenced by money and fame and/or threats.

Yes, politics, in general, is becoming a mess. Wish I knew a solution...


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Hey, he does a great Al Green impression.


Yes, he does!! I was impressed when I watched that on TV!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Be sure to watch the video, amazing!
> 
> Amazing Video Shows Life Before Birth: Everything a Newborn Baby Does, a Fetus Has Already Done
> 
> ...


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Poor Purl - The links you posted are very interesting. It only proves for the second time, if someone does not respond to a PM you sent in a time to your liking, YOU make it public.
> 
> Poor Purl made it an issue by asking about the PM. Soloweygirl chose to ignore Poor Purl, until Poor Purl asked the question. Why couldn't Poor Purl have just ignored the non answer?


Thank you Joey.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Thank you Joey.


Are we still there???? Sheesh!


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO it will take leaders.



Wombatnomore said:


> Please understand, I am not supporting the war. I agree with you, war is not the answer. Will there ever be a solution to this conflict? I'm fearful of the answer to that one.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Ruth Bader Ginsburg Accuses Pro-Hobby Lobby SCOTUS Judges of Being Sexist
> 
> by Steven Ertelt | Washington, DC | LifeNews.com | 7/31/14 12:25 PM
> 
> ...


Ruth Bader Ginsburg is right!


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Just another example of lying. But now that I have commented, I suppose you and I and someone else (who was never mentioned so I suppose we are to guess) are riding our bicycle built for three. I find it amazing that the obamacultists can not comprehend that we don't have to wait until a gang (or should I resort to slang vocabulary so that they can understand what I am saying.......posse'), to comment. But I guess when you are either sisters on a party line or at an assisted living area it must be necessary. But don't worry, they won't be able to stay on KP for long. Electricity costs are at an all time high. It went up almost 5% in the past year, so those on subsidies, handouts or another form of a fixed income won't be able to afford the electricity to run their computers or pay for their internet. Talk about a War On Women, higher electric bills, food bills, health insurance premiums and deductibles higher, gas prices doubled in 6 years............... but it is probably not Obama's fault, that darn tsunami just came at a bad time.


She certainly is adept at the many ways to lie. It must be a trait of the Democrats. If you can't lie, no membership for you.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words.



Designer1234 said:


> you are smart so you are allowed.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wise words.



Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> War is not the answer that is for sure but I am afraid, the conflicts will still be there in a thousand years from now. Conflict is a way of life for some. If you are born into War you most likely see it as a normal. They see nothing that soothes their feelings. I think that if those people would be transplanted into more pleasant surroundings, they would change their ways. When you rarely see a tree, a bush, a blade of grass, anything blooming, never a little stream moving gently through the countryside, it has to be working on one's psyche.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> You can't criticize the person who's trying to get equal pay when the repubs are totally opposed! Get real!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> She certainly is adept at the many ways to lie. It must be a trait of the Democrats. If you can't lie, no membership for you.


We'll just let you two argue among yourselves. You and Joey are the best at it.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty
that is the best recommendation yet.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Here is proof that Dems are not the liars, and that the bats#*! Tea Party holds the title.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMO there is enforcing existing laws and there is the funding and will to enforce existing laws when they go against the corporations who really run our country at the moment.



cookiequeen said:


> How do you propose the government should go about enforcing the law? Maybe we just rely on the goodness of corporations to follow the law? Then, if they're found to be violating the law we should put them in jail? Corporations are people, you know. I know in your way of thinking the corporations just do what they have to do to make money because that's the purpose of a corporation, after all.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

***


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Snark alert.

And global warming (which doesn't exist) is his fault too.



joeysomma said:


> Who is the law enforcer? How do you expect the law to be enforced by any corporation if the chief law enforcer will not enforce it for his own employees?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

In the words of Alice Roosevelt, come sit by me.



Frogging123 said:


> Besides being an average knitter, I am a mean baker! I would spend all day baking if I could! But, then I would weigh like 300 pounds! AND the house would be a mess. Thanks for asking.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is proof that Dems are not the liars, and that the bats#*! Tea Party holds the title.


Bratty Patty

BACHMANN:
wonder if she is on something like LSD. For heaven's sake that women is ripe for the Bin.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Grrrrrrr. I'm getting to the end of my rope.



Frogging123 said:


> Oh! All my guests were welcome! I have had a splendid time with them all! Laughter, good food, beverage, site-seeing, story-telling....we've done it all! It's been a grand summer, albeit, tiring.
> 
> No, I didn't read that far back, so probably jumped in with what seemed like an appropriate response without prior knowledge.
> 
> You are right, many people won't go and find out who is funding these groups making the ads. However, from experience, it is not always easy to find out who is providing the money. With PAC money, it seems easy to "hide" donors names. Also, it is common practice for PACs to "disguise" themselves by acting like they are grassroots organizations when, in fact, they are really comprised of big money from out of state. It's appalling, to say the least.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Bratty Patty
> 
> BACHMANN:
> wonder if she is on something like LSD. For heaven's sake that women is ripe for the Bin.


She plans to run for the Presidency again, Huck. I don't know whether to laugh or just sit and shake my head in wonderment!
I wonder if her husband programs her.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> :
> 
> damemary
> I am sure we agree that the Republicans of old are desperate. Desperate to get their hijacked Party back. My oh my the trouble they are in. The Tea Party dug them a hole almost reaching China. What a climb they have in front of them.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They should provide funding, but that will mean $$$ lost to them. Guess who loses instead?



Poor Purl said:


> Doesn't Congress have to provide the funds to enforce that law?


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> damemary said:
> 
> 
> > :
> ...


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

He hasn't had a win in quite some time, sneaky as he tries to be.



Poor Purl said:


> Besides, anyone who goes to Karl Rove for advice really is desperate.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> he has? By ending the War in Iraq and slimming down our involvement in Afghanistan? You make the dumbest statements. Let me rephrase that, you repeat the worst crap that others feed you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Have you ever tried it?


You certainly haven't.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sarcasm alert

Repetition of a lie has worked before. Let's try it again says Karl.....Rove.



BrattyPatty said:


> Funny how KPG and liars are drawn to each other
> like moths to a flame...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Frogging123 said:


> My husband says my middle name should be messes! I make a lot of them! It also addresses my avatar name--I frog a lot! I like to try new things and am not always successful.
> 
> That could prove to be an interesting thread...a cookie contest thread! People have varied opinions about what is the best cookie!


And think of the fun judging the contest!!! Yippeeeeeee


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Frogging123 said:


> I hate to admit this...but I have stopped looking at the junk mail that politicians send to us. When I think about the USPS losing money, maybe they need to raise the rate on junk mail...I sure get a lot!!
> 
> I try to locate information from many sources so that I can make a decision. I guess I get disappointed when people play games and say/do things they think we want to hear. I wish someone would come along that would practice what they preach and do what is right...using sound scientific evidence and not be influenced by money and fame and/or threats.
> 
> Yes, politics, in general, is becoming a mess. Wish I knew a solution...


Vote. Vote out incumbants


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

KPG, I call Pitiful Purl a liar because she is a liar. It's so obvious that PP doesn't even know when she is lying anymore due to the frequency of her lies. 

Thanks for the C&P showing her exact words.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

damemary said:


> Vote. Vote out incumbants


damemary
that is our approach with very few exceptions.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Oh we will be laughing again, I have no doubt. Here's hoping that she stays in the race longer this time around.


BrattyPatty said:


> She plans to run for the Presidency again, Huck. I don't know whether to laugh or just sit and shake my head in wonderment!
> I wonder if her husband programs her.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> KPG, I call Pitiful Purl a liar because she is a liar. It's so obvious that PP doesn't even know when she is lying anymore due to the frequency of her lies.
> 
> Thanks for the C&P showing her exact words.


soloweygirl
KPG

isn't there a phrase about pot and kettle? It certainly applies to you. I have not seen PP lying. Her truth may be stark but that is o.k.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Especially in the Obama Administration where women are paid less then men. Why is that? 18% less in 2012 and 14% less in 2013. Whatta guy


Women have been paid less during many presidencies. Where have you been?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> KPG, I call Pitiful Purl a liar because she is a liar. It's so obvious that PP doesn't even know when she is lying anymore due to the frequency of her lies.
> 
> Thanks for the C&P showing her exact words.


Go do some cartwheels, solo.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who is the law enforcer? How do you expect the law to be enforced by any corporation if the chief law enforcer will not enforce it for his own employees?


The law enforcer would not get the consent of the Republican congress. He would have to issue another executive order, which I am sure would be included in the frivolous lawsuit against him.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Ha! You think the Democrats are desperate? What do you call the lawsuit against President Obama? Now that's desperation! If a president disagrees with your party, sue 'im! The recalcitrant babies in the House have accomplished NOTHING for the citizens of the US, but they all picked up their pay checks.


I want my money back.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It isn't the money, it is the will to do it. He has wasted more money than the presidents before him.


And yet the deficit keeps getting smaller under him. You're mistaken about "wasted" money.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Let me repeat that for you.


Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> he has? By ending the War in Iraq and slimming down our involvement in Afghanistan? You make the dumbest statements. Let me rephrase that, you repeat the worst crap that others feed you.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> Please understand, I am not supporting the war. I agree with you, war is not the answer. Will there ever be a solution to this conflict? I'm fearful of the answer to that one.


Of course there will. When everyone is allowed to live in peace.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Frogging123 said:


> Besides being an average knitter, I am a mean baker! I would spend all day baking if I could! But, then I would weigh like 300 pounds! AND the house would be a mess. Thanks for asking.


You would only weigh 300 lbs if you ate everything you baked. HINT, HINT: we are great taste testers.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny how KPG and liars are drawn to each other
> like moths to a flame...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Are we still there???? Sheesh!


I'm not. But then, I'm not a conservative. I believe in moving forward.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Ruth Bader Ginsburg is right!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> We'll just let you two argue among yourselves. You and Joey are the best at it.


You left out LTL. She's going to cry, the way she did when someone said her hands looked old.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> ***


This is very good, Patty. I'm adopting it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> he has? By ending the War in Iraq and slimming down our involvement in Afghanistan? You make the dumbest statements. Let me rephrase that, you repeat the worst crap that others feed you.


Just look at the outcome for Iraq. That marvelous terrorist group, ISIS, has taken over most of the country and with it what we did accomplish. All the while Obama watched their progress.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You certainly haven't.


Or, in right-speak, "neener neener neener."


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> War is not the answer that is for sure but I am afraid, the conflicts will still be there in a thousand years from now. Conflict is a way of life for some. If you are born into War you most likely see it as a normal. They see nothing that soothes their feelings. I think that if those people would be transplanted into more pleasant surroundings, they would change their ways. When you rarely see a tree, a bush, a blade of grass, anything blooming, never a little stream moving gently through the countryside, it has to be working on one's psyche.


How much can the people on both sides endure though and for how much longer? I agree that conflict is a way of life for some but enough already? So very sad and scary.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Just look at the outcome for Iraq. That marvelous terrorist group, ISIS, has taken over most of the country and with it what we did accomplish. All the while Obama watched their progress.


Maybe this Iraqi conflict can be blamed on President Obama,too? Just like the spill over from Syria?

The IranIraq War, also known as the First Persian Gulf War,[27][28][29][30][31] was an armed conflict between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Republic of Iraq lasting from September 1980 to August 1988, making it the 20th century's longest conventional war.[32][33] It was initially referred to in English as the "Gulf War" prior to the Persian Gulf War of the early 1990s.[34]

The IranIraq War began when Iraq invaded Iran via air and land on 22 September 1980. It followed a long history of border disputes, and was motivated by fears that the Iranian Revolution in 1979 would inspire insurgency among Iraq's long-suppressed Shia majority as well as Iraq's desire to replace Iran as the dominant Persian Gulf state. Although Iraq hoped to take advantage of Iran's revolutionary chaos and attacked without formal warning, they made only limited progress into Iran and were quickly repelled; Iran regained virtually all lost territory by June 1982. For the next six years, Iran was on the offensive.[35] A number of proxy forces participated in the war, most notably the Iranian Mujahedin-e-Khalq siding with Ba'athist Iraq and Iraqi Kurdish militias of Kurdish Democratic Party and Patriotic Union of Kurdistan siding with Iranall suffering a major blow by the end of the conflict.

Despite calls for a ceasefire by the United Nations Security Council, hostilities continued until 20 August 1988. The war finally ended with Resolution 598, a U.N.-brokered ceasefire which was accepted by both sides. At the war's conclusion, it took several weeks for Iranian armed forces to evacuate Iraqi territory to honour pre-war international borders set by the 1975 Algiers Agreement.[36] The last prisoners of war were exchanged in 2003.[35][37]

The war cost both sides in lives and economic damage: half a million Iraqi and Iranian soldiers, with an equivalent number of civilians, are believed to have died, with many more injured; however, the war brought neither reparations nor changes in borders. The conflict has been compared to World War I[38]:171 in terms of the tactics used, including large-scale trench warfare with barbed wire stretched across trenches, manned machine-gun posts, bayonet charges, human wave attacks across a no-man's land, and extensive use of chemical weapons such as mustard gas by the Iraqi government against Iranian troops, civilians, and Iraqi Kurds. At the time of the conflict, the U.N. Security Council issued statements that "chemical weapons had been used in the war." U.N. statements never clarified that only Iraq was using chemical weapons, and according to retrospective authors "the international community remained silent as Iraq used weapons of mass destruction against Iranian as well as Iraqi Kurds."[39][40][41]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_War

You remember that one? President Ronald Reagan and VP George HW Bush's illegal involvement in a Persian Gulf War? What is it with Republicans and illegal wars in the MiddleEast? 
Hmmmm, let me think. 
Money?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> You would only weigh 300 lbs if you ate everything you baked. HINT, HINT: we are great taste testers.


"*Only* 300 lbs"? That makes me wonder how much more you weigh.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> The Dems are desperate, very desperate, because the majority of Americans recognize the Commander In Chief is incompetent and all the world agrees.
> 
> Then, too, there is NO law enforcement; only he who obfuscates, ignores and breaks the law.
> 
> ...


Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America.

You are an angry U.S. citizen. There is absolutely no contest here!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> "*Only* 300 lbs"? That makes me wonder how much more you weigh.


My oh my, what a clever put down, if you were still in grade school.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Are you implying that the opinion you had of us early in the year was not honest? We were bigots then; no more?


Perhaps I should have used the word 'genuine.'


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> My oh my, what a clever put down, if you were still in grade school.


Neener neener neener.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> KPG, I call Pitiful Purl a liar because she is a liar. It's so obvious that PP doesn't even know when she is lying anymore due to the frequency of her lies.
> 
> Thanks for the C&P showing her exact words.


She is a liar of the worst kind. She lies, and then when her exact words are presented to her, she denies them (lies again).

It is Pitiful.

Someone from another thread told me how Poor Purl was defaming my name and comparing me to and calling me a Nazi, her Fuhrer and Anti-Semitic. It took me all of five minutes to locate her comment(S) because she had just recently made multiple posts libeling me.

I simply re-posted _her own words_ to show all readers what is archived that anyone can read showing her to be not only a classless person, but also a dolt and liar.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is a liar of the worst kind. She lies, and then when her exact words are presented to her, she denies them (lies again).
> 
> It is Pitiful.
> 
> ...


Are you looking in the mirror, KPG???? You are not describing PP. You are describing what is looking back at you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You left out LTL. She's going to cry, the way she did when someone said her hands looked old.


I never said her hands looked old, I said they looked pudgy. Maybe somebody else said they looked old too?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is a liar of the worst kind. She lies, and then when her exact words are presented to her, she denies them (lies again).
> 
> It is Pitiful.
> 
> ...


Uh huh. And how many people do you "libel" here on this site and various threads?
I don't call it libel. I call it seeing you for what you represent yourself to be.
You got suspended for your anti semitic post. Remember?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I never said her hands looked old, I said they looked pudgy. Maybe somebody else said they looked old too?


She remembered it as old. Maybe she hates old more than she hates pudgy.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She remembered it as old. Maybe she hates old more than she hates pudgy.


Ack. The vanity of some people!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Of course it should be against the law...but the inmates are running the asylum. In my darker times I think of a bloody revolution.


<whisper behind my hand {I think I may be there now...}>. :? :|


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> A wise person knows when to change. (I'm scaring myself. I sound like a guru. )


Well, I think you are a very wise sage indeed. Don't be scared. It was bound to happen someday!! 

Said with the utmost of love, of course.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> He will, Purl. After his speech in Kansas City, I don't see him backing down to the RWN's. Do they even consider the fact that if they go ahead with this inane lawsuit against the President, that his term will be up before anything happens with it? Do they understand that we taxpayers will be paying for this lawsuit?


Do they care? It isn't their own money, and they have all us suckers to sock for more taxes via inflation to cover what they squander. Look at Chris Christie spending megabucks on a special election so he wouldn't have to see votes for Corey Booker cut his lead. So to cover the loss, he is trying to steal more money from public employee pension funds.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Please understand, I am not supporting the war. I agree with you, war is not the answer. Will there ever be a solution to this conflict? I'm fearful of the answer to that one.


Ok, wombat, I'm ready to answer your question, and I will start with this.

No, war is NOT the answer. And it never is amongst human beings who value life. There is a subspecies of homosapiens (I cannot use the word "human" in this context) who do not value life in the least, and use people as weapons and tools to destroy this gift.

Unfortunately, when such people exist and diplomacy has failed (and after all, it has been attempted and failed), drastic measures must be employed; it's like lancing a boil, or exorcising infected tissue to keep it from spreading. I do not know what those drastic measures are. There are many things to consider, not the least of which is the loss of innocent lives; women, children, AND men. Let's not forget that there are many men involved in the conflicts who want peace, not obliteration of the other party. 
Here is a prime example http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/you-wont-believe-what-the-son-of-hamas-just-said-on-cnn

In the case of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict (I am aware of most of the atrocities in the Middle East, this one just hits close to home so I will go with it. It is the same means and outcome for all of them, though.), you have something that has been going on longer than any other conflict. It was "legitimized" in 1948 when the UN divided the territories the way they did. I have referred to it as "islands in a lake", bc there is no continuity. There are 2 Palestinian Territories; one on the west coast of Israel (Gaza), one in the east (which is called the West Bank, actually, bc it boards the Western boundaries of Jordan). 
Ever since The Jews gained control of part of their homeland back (and while some may not have been happy with the layout, the Jews were satisfied with the armistice), there have been factions within the Palestinian people and government (or it WAS the actual government), and the governments of the surrounding nations, who were bent on the annihilation of the Jews. They are/were not interested in the Jews merely leaving. They want their total destruction and will use their own people to meet those ends. How do you reason with this?

Israel has practiced diplomacy over and over. She may not have always been right in some of her actions, but when it came to the constant attacks at least, she has always sued for peace. The problem is, she just can't win no matter what she does. If she defends herself, she is a monster bc she actually hits her targets of where weapons are being stored and whatnot. Unfortunately, these targets are strategically placed in heavily populated areas, schools, etc. Hamas has done this on purpose because it knows that Israel will look bad. And it was right. On the other hand, if she agrees to a ceasefire and sues for peace, IF Hamas even agrees, all of these fundamentalist groups have a history of not honoring ceasefires or truces. Every time, every single time. In fact, the only reason Israel HAD control of the Palestinian Territories was bc they gained them in wars they did not start and did not want.

So when does it end? for Israel, it is like banging her head against a very very tough wall. There are so many moral issues to consider. For Hamas, it ends with the destruction of ANYONE who is not Muslim. It does not stop with the Jews. And when they have killed everyone else, they will turn on their own people, just like they have in some of the countries in the Middle East.

I think it is wise to fear the answer to your question. But consider that the Syrians, the Israelis, the Iraqis, etc... Anyone who lives under or opposes the tyranny of fundamentalists who don't regard life, they live in fear every day for their lives. They can't get comfortable with the thought of peace. It needs to be stopped bc if it continues, everyone will either be dead or live under the "hate" mentality. That would be a very very scary world to live in.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Come on Lakes - when have you avoided a good screech? I like that idea - War on Americans: The Play - presented by the House of Representatives.


Not only presented by, but produced and directed as well.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> War is not the answer that is for sure but I am afraid, the conflicts will still be there in a thousand years from now. Conflict is a way of life for some. If you are born into War you most likely see it as a normal. They see nothing that soothes their feelings. I think that if those people would be transplanted into more pleasant surroundings, they would change their ways. When you rarely see a tree, a bush, a blade of grass, anything blooming, never a little stream moving gently through the countryside, it has to be working on one's psyche.


You did not specify, but I can only assume you are speaking of the Palestinians and Hamas. Israel boasts some of the most beautiful Oasis, preserves, and orchards. I, for one, planted trees in Israel in honor of every person invited to my bat mitzvah (not just those who attended.). Israel has developed new, or improved on old, irrigation techniques and has even supplied water to Jordan. Jordan can now grow their own agriculture using methods such a permaculture (using trenches and hills to irrigate) and aquaponics (moving water and fish waste fertilizer to feed and irrigate the plants, and the fish can be table fish), Israel even left perfectly useful greenhouses in the territories they abandoned for Palestinian use. Hamas destroyed some of these and are using others for storage of karma only knows what.

And the "psyche" thing is exactly what Hamas is going for. They are turning their children into hateful weapons of mass destruction. They send the children to the front lives, the teenagers they strap with bombs, and the mothers are promised payment for their children's "martyrdom." Most of them never receive said payment. Some are content with the fact that their babies are going to "heaven." They want to bring their people so low, and convince them it is Israel's doing. Maybe Israel hasn't always been the most "fair", but their psyche has been messed with, too. 
The Jews left the travesty of Eastern Europe, hoping to finally find peace in their homeland, only to find they would have to endure the same hatred all over again. There has never been rest. They've always tried, but what do they do now?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> and why do so many remain slaves? It is because the Repugs refuse to support the reconstruction of our Infrastructure for example, which would give well paying jobs to many for many years. Oh I forgot, they have a selfish reason, they do not want President Obama to look good through higher employment and betterment of the economy. In the meantime the whole Nation suffers and is losing respect world-wide. No other developed Nation has their infrastructure crumbling as ours. I am ashamed to even call our Roadways Highways. High on need for repair, certainly not high on speed efficiency.


And we get very, very nervous driving on bridges over deep gorges.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> But it does matter as long as we have such inequality in this country and as long as the uber rich and corporations get away without paying their fair share.


But they think corporations ARE paying their fair share.

And you're right. That is why it is up to intelligent, reasonable, and considerate people like us to educate people. Outside of that, we cannot force people to see the truth. They live with their own "truths" and nothing could be said otherwise, besides the people who are feeding them these lies.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> When they are doing something that is legal it is not criminal. Most of these folks are rich when they take office, they already feel entitled to get richer.
> They really do think that they are smarter than average rather than it being the luck of birth. Recent studies show that most believe that.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/05/14/americans_think_they_re_smarter_than_the_average_american_rich_white_guys.html


Oh, I totally understand that. The what they are doing is not illegal, but it is a crime against the American people.

I am aware of that. It sickens me. Especially in this day and age.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> put some of the "funnies" posted here into a play and give Colbert and Stewart a little competition. Palin and Bachmann come up with doosies (?) but some folks here even top them. Material galore just do not forget to give credit where credit is due or they call you a thief. Is there a 4-letter word for thief? They like those best.


Colbert and Stewart are intending to be funny. The others are hilarious without intending to be; they seem to think their comments are meaningful and serious, which is enough to send me flying off my chair in gales of laughter.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Frogging123 said:


> Besides being an average knitter, I am a mean baker! I would spend all day baking if I could! But, then I would weigh like 300 pounds! AND the house would be a mess. Thanks for asking.


Haha! You and CQ should get together with my sis.

I cook, but it don't bake much. I love to make healthy food. It's a self preservation tactic ;-). Recently I have been doing a lot of Mediterranean food. Haven't done a lot with fish, but I'd like to try.

What I have baked has turned out good (dh loves my carrot cake), but I have not had much time outside of other responsibilities. And while Granny would love to live on a deity of sweet treats, it's just not happening. Lol!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes damemary, opinion has changed. I cannot abide their brand of hypocrisy any longer.


You are among friends, and have been for a long time now. Good to see you around.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Frogging123 said:


> Oh! All my guests were welcome! I have had a splendid time with them all! Laughter, good food, beverage, site-seeing, story-telling....we've done it all! It's been a grand summer, albeit, tiring.
> 
> No, I didn't read that far back, so probably jumped in with what seemed like an appropriate response without prior knowledge.
> 
> You are right, many people won't go and find out who is funding these groups making the ads. However, from experience, it is not always easy to find out who is providing the money. With PAC money, it seems easy to "hide" donors names. Also, it is common practice for PACs to "disguise" themselves by acting like they are grassroots organizations when, in fact, they are really comprised of big money from out of state. It's appalling, to say the least.


That's wonderful! Glad you're enjoying yourself.

I am actually happy you made that Segway.

You are completely right. Once corporations became "people", thus creating the SuperPACs, politicians do not have to disclose who they are getting money from, and the PACs can even have a "fictitious name" that sounds pleasant. We just have to be cynical (realistic) and know that everyone is being funded by a these "people."

It should be illegal for a corporation to fund campaigns for people in states they do not "reside" in. They do this bc their industry may be affected by competition in that state, trade, etc. or maybe they want to have as many elected officials in their pockets as they can get. Who knows? I can make an educated guess.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes, mistakes indeed. I did appreciate your input on that subject and isn't it interesting that some felt just a little irritated by it? Their prerogative of course.
> 
> Since then, sadly, such tragedy has occurred and continues to occur in the Middle East. I'm struggling to get my head around it to be honest. I'm so upset for the innocent people being killed but at the same time, it is a war.
> 
> How do you think when these atrocities occur? It's so very difficult.


It is even more heart breaking when so many people are dying because their leadership refuses to accept a cease fire and uses them as cannon fodder to subvert public opinion.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> It isn't the money, it is the will to do it. He has wasted more money than the presidents before him.


By getting us OUT OF a a multibillion dollar war, that was based on false information? Really? Did he start the war, too? 5 or however many years before he took office? Hm...

That was rhetorical, btw.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> When they are doing something that is legal it is not criminal. Most of these folks are rich when they take office, they already feel entitled to get richer.
> They really do think that they are smarter than average rather than it being the luck of birth. Recent studies show that most believe that.
> 
> http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2014/05/14/americans_think_they_re_smarter_than_the_average_american_rich_white_guys.html


So many of them are rich because their grandfathers were clever, or because they married women whose grandfathers were clever.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> the dulling down of some good minds. And while the girls keep playing ring around the rosie the boys do what? O.K. I can guess.


The boys learn how to lead their families(meaning, tell everyone what to do.)


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Frogging123 said:


> My husband says my middle name should be messes! I make a lot of them! It also addresses my avatar name--I frog a lot! I like to try new things and am not always successful.
> 
> That could prove to be an interesting thread...a cookie contest thread! People have varied opinions about what is the best cookie!


Haha!! My dh CALLS me a mess, as if that's my name. He says I'm his "bull in a china shop." I make a mess of everything, without even trying. He calls me "pig pen" (you know, like the peanuts gang), after I've been working in on the little farm I have. You should see me covered in yarn sometimes from frogging. Rip it! Rip it! Lol.

I commend the fact that you are so adventurous, that "not being successful" does not deter you from your quests. Bravo!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She is a liar of the worst kind. She lies, and then when her exact words are presented to her, she denies them (lies again).
> 
> It is Pitiful.
> 
> ...


It's so ironic that a poster with such a beautiful avatar can show such an ugly personality.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Frogging123 said:


> I hate to admit this...but I have stopped looking at the junk mail that politicians send to us. When I think about the USPS losing money, maybe they need to raise the rate on junk mail...I sure get a lot!!
> 
> I try to locate information from many sources so that I can make a decision. I guess I get disappointed when people play games and say/do things they think we want to hear. I wish someone would come along that would practice what they preach and do what is right...using sound scientific evidence and not be influenced by money and fame and/or threats.
> 
> Yes, politics, in general, is becoming a mess. Wish I knew a solution...


But a lot of the information out there is incorrect as well.

While scientific evidence is nice, the issues cannot always be supported be it. There is morality to consider, and that cannot be proven.

How about SELF ACCOUNTABILITY for a start.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Frogging123 said:


> I hate to admit this...but I have stopped looking at the junk mail that politicians send to us. When I think about the USPS losing money, maybe they need to raise the rate on junk mail...I sure get a lot!!
> 
> I try to locate information from many sources so that I can make a decision. I guess I get disappointed when people play games and say/do things they think we want to hear. I wish someone would come along that would practice what they preach and do what is right...using sound scientific evidence and not be influenced by money and fame and/or threats.
> 
> Yes, politics, in general, is becoming a mess. Wish I knew a solution...


Before the election we get many glossy expensive 5" x 7" cards flacking particular politicians. They make excellent dustpans, lying close to the floor. Then they get recycled and make the stupid mixed paper bag very heavy.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Colbert and Stewart are intending to be funny. The others are hilarious without intending to be; they seem to think their comments are meaningful and serious, which is enough to send me flying off my chair in gales of laughter.


You, too? I get quite a few chuckles just reading this thread.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> IMHO it will take leaders.


But what if the leaders are only interested in the annihilation of the other side?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just look at the outcome for Iraq. That marvelous terrorist group, ISIS, has taken over most of the country and with it what we did accomplish. All the while Obama watched their progress.


Who would think Obama would do such a thing? Never mind, you would.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Here is proof that Dems are not the liars, and that the bats#*! Tea Party holds the title.


Those eyes look familiar. Wasn't she the lead character on "V" a few years ago?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> ***


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> She plans to run for the Presidency again, Huck. I don't know whether to laugh or just sit and shake my head in wonderment!
> I wonder if her husband programs her.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She plans to run for the Presidency again, Huck. I don't know whether to laugh or just sit and shake my head in wonderment!
> I wonder if her husband programs her.


Let's hope he funds her and she doesn't take any federal money$$$


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Let's hope he funds her and she doesn't take any federal money$$$


She takes plenty of federal money for her "family farm." And maybe state money for her foster children.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Vote. Vote out incumbants


They're all the same, though. At least with incumbents they have already shown their true nature.

I am NOT saying don't vote out incumbents, just playing devils advocate while trying to make a point.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It isn't the money, it is the will to do it. He has wasted more money than the presidents before him.


Sheesh, joey, would you please get some education instead of propaganda? Or take care of a needy child? Forget taking care of a kid, you'd only indoctrinate and scare him or her.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not only presented by, but produced and directed as well.


Don't forget STARRING (as the villain/antagonist).


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Colbert and Stewart are intending to be funny. The others are hilarious without intending to be; they seem to think their comments are meaningful and serious, which is enough to send me flying off my chair in gales of laughter.


I don't know if you remember, but someone here posted something about a RWN news show host who ACTUALLY took Jon Stewart SERIOUSLY!! She acted as if he was speaking from a place of serious news casting. It's a COMEDY SHOW for crying out loud! I mean, come on! But still, quite informative, no? 

I have the same reaction as you.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

maysmom said:


> It's so ironic that a poster with such a beautiful avatar can show such an ugly personality.


Kind of like somebody who puts on too much aftershave or perfume to try to mask the fact that they didn't take a shower!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is even more heart breaking when so many people are dying because their leadership refuses to accept a cease fire and uses them as cannon fodder to subvert public opinion.


But why is still WORKING?! This is NOT new!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> So many of them are rich because their grandfathers were clever, or because they married women whose grandfathers were clever.


LOL, I wish I had been that smart. But yes, it isn't that it is true, only that they believe that they deserve to be better off and better off... just as so many who hang around with the donuts and pastries believe that those in poverty just don't work hard enough, made so many bad choices... like going to underfunded schools and having parents who were either working so many jobs they didn't have the energy to do more or were so worn down by poverty and lack of opportunity themselves that they couldn't supervise and encourage their kids to study and couldn't take their kids to the library never mind go out to buy books to own.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Before the election we get many glossy expensive 5" x 7" cards flacking particular politicians. They make excellent dustpans, lying close to the floor. Then they get recycled and make the stupid mixed paper bag very heavy.


I would vote for the guy who gives the money he would spend on ads to schools or charity. That's my kind of candidate!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> You, too? I get quite a few chuckles just reading this thread.


It's why I come on here.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> But why is still WORKING?! This is NOT new!


Probably for the same reasons that those in poverty remain in poverty. When you are in the middle and feel that you have no power, you stay. You don't ask for much and you believe that you deserve what you are getting. 
This morning, I was thinking "just dump Hamas, FCS"! Do you suppose those living there really feel that they can?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> Just look at the outcome for Iraq. That marvelous terrorist group, ISIS, has taken over most of the country and with it what we did accomplish. All the while Obama watched their progress.


When WE went in and got Saddam Hussein, it created a power vacuum. The terrorists in the outlying nations were counting on this. What was Obama supposed to do, stay there and lose more American lives in a war we never should have joined in the first place? Let me guess, you were "all for" the joining and staying in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts.

Are we supposed to sacrifice our own men, women, and money to police the world?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, I wish I had been that smart. But yes, it isn't that it is true, only that they believe that they deserve to be better off and better off... just as so many who hang around with the donuts and pastries believe that those in poverty just don't work hard enough, made so many bad choices... like going to underfunded schools and having parents who were either working so many jobs they didn't have the energy to do more or were so worn down by poverty and lack of opportunity themselves that they couldn't supervise and encourage their kids to study and couldn't take their kids to the library never mind go out to buy books to own.


Bravo! Bravo! Very well said!! Take a bow!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Probably for the same reasons that those in poverty remain in poverty. When you are in the middle and feel that you have no power, you stay. You don't ask for much and you believe that you deserve what you are getting.
> This morning, I was thinking "just dump Hamas, FCS"! Do you suppose those living there really feel that they can?


I meant why is the world still buying what Hamas is feeding them? But I do agree with what you are saying.

What is FCS? Please excuse my impertinence, or the fact I had no sleep last night.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I meant why is the world still buying what Hamas is feeding them? But I do agree with what you are saying.
> 
> What is FCS? Please excuse my impertinence, or the fact I had no sleep last night.


I can't say.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> I can't say.


Darn. I thought you had all the answers.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I am sure that there are all kinds of reasons for people to buy it. Those reasons range from anti-semitism to feeling for an underdog, to anti-semitism, to resentment about foreign aid, to anti-semitism...


Natureschampion said:


> I meant why is the world still buying what Hamas is feeding them? But I do agree with what you are saying.
> 
> What is FCS? Please excuse my impertinence, or the fact I had no sleep last night.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Darn. I thought you had all the answers.


Oh, I do, I just can't say!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Kind of like somebody who puts on too much aftershave or perfume to try to mask the fact that they didn't take a shower!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Oh, I do, I just can't say!


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Bravo! Bravo! Very well said!! Take a bow!


Thank you, and then there is this which some will say is free enterprise, regardless it irks me more than the couple of million people might make by being in the right place at the right time.

What the What ( I bet you know what I am thinking for that one)
http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-snapchat-alibaba-20140730-story.html


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Thank you, and then there is this which some will say is free enterprise, regardless it irks me more than the couple of million people might make by being in the right place at the right time.
> 
> What the What ( I bet you know what I am thinking for that one)
> http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-snapchat-alibaba-20140730-story.html


We are in complete agreement here, knitanon.

And yes, I have the same thought


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## Frogging123 (Jul 3, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Before the election we get many glossy expensive 5" x 7" cards flacking particular politicians. They make excellent dustpans, lying close to the floor. Then they get recycled and make the stupid mixed paper bag very heavy.


What a great use of those big glossy 5x7 cards! I bet if you sent it into Family Circle magazine, you could make 50 bucks! Is that magazine still in publication?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Frogging123 said:


> What a great use of those big glossy 5x7 cards! I bet if you sent it into Family Circle magazine, you could make 50 bucks! Is that magazine still in publication?


The last time I saw it was a few years back at my chiropractor's office when Michael J. fox was on the cover. I hope it is.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> What about the people who make their money by hiring another person to work for them and pay that person from money that came from their father/grandfather? How is it that person earned their money? Especially if said employee's job is to make them money from something like the stock market, which is just moving numbers around, as far as I'm concerned; not work, a game.


Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> The last time I saw it was a few years back at my chiropractor's office when Michael J. fox was on the cover. I hope it is.


Why do I think that SOMEONE inherited her money?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


Here we go again. This is not jealousy or "class envy." 
Pathetic


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just look at the outcome for Iraq. That marvelous terrorist group, ISIS, has taken over most of the country and with it what we did accomplish. All the while Obama watched their progress.


Did you expect him to send the troops back over there, solo? I'll use your famous response "Who would pay for it?" 
The Middle East has been at war since the beginning of time. The US interfering in civil wars won't change a thing. We lost too many of our young men and women in Iraq. We can't police the entire globe. We have to choose our fights carefully. I thought you knew that already.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Why do I think that SOMEONE inherited her money?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Some people cannot help it, CQ, they cannot follow a conversation. Some people don't understand that the references are to scientific studies and results of those studies. 
Pretty good demonstration of that entitlement mentality, though, isn't it?



cookiequeen said:


> Here we go again. This is not jealousy or "class envy."
> Pathetic


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Here we go again. This is not jealousy or "class envy."
> Pathetic


That's what the party line calls it, so that's what the coven calls it.


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


What in God's name would you know about class? You have none.
You are way of the mark today. Nipping the hard stuff again, Pudge?
What's even is more pathetic is *your* jealousy over the perks of the presidency. I've never seen anyone throw such a hissy fit over the game of golf.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

The reactionaries in the House are up to their old, stupid tricks. Today we had Senator Cruz running around telling the right wing radicals not to do a darn thing on immigration. They're telling the president to do his job---and oh, yeah, if you do it we're going to impeach you. What is God's name is idiot Cruz doing trying to rule the House? And Boehner? Why is he the "leader?" He has no control or influence at all in the House. And they're so noble---they extended their stay in Washington for a whole 24 hours to try to "fix" things. Boehner has no spine whatsoever, and the repub party is in total disarray. Because Comgress is broken, Obama is forced to make decisions for them. But, watch out, Obama. You'll be sued or impeached if you do. Let's garnish their wages!


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## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> The reactionaries in the House are up to their old, stupid tricks. Today we had Senator Cruz running around telling the right wing radicals not to do a darn thing on immigration. They're telling the president to do his job---and oh, yeah, if you do it we're going to impeach you. What is God's name is idiot Cruz doing trying to rule the House? And Boehner? Why is he the "leader?" He has no control or influence at all in the House. And they're so noble---they extended their stay in Washington for a whole 24 hours to try to "fix" things. Boehner has no spine whatsoever, and the repub party is in total disarray. Because Comgress is broken, Obama is forced to make decisions for them. But, watch out, Obama. You'll be used or impeached if you do. Let's garnish their wages!


Hear! Hear!! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's what the party line calls it, so that's what the coven calls it.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Oh, good. Something I can ignore. Maybe I won't need blood,pressure meds after all. "Go to Neutral Bridges," she said calmly.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


As usual, you are completely missing the boat. The topic was learning to live with an EARNED wage. How did this person earn her wage if it was handed to her? Just bc she didn't STEAL it, doesn't mean she earned it. The 2 terms are mutually exclusive. Really? Do stock brokers make so little that the loss of one client will make them unable to feed their kids? What about all the people who lose the jobs they have worked hard at their entire lives bc a company decides to "save a few bucks" for their shareholders and CEOs by moving jobs oversees? The CEOs and shareholders won't fail to supply for their children if the jobs remained in the US. However, these workers fail to have a LIVELIHOOD; feed, cloth, house, etc. their children, when these jobs are gone.

My statement has nothing to do with class envy.

I think you might have "intelligence envy" in this case.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Why do I think that SOMEONE inherited her money?


Gee, I don't know. Could it be the writing on the wall? Or the obsession with class envy when it is obviously not the topic of discussion, or been said.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Did you expect him to send the troops back over there, solo? I'll use your famous response "Who would pay for it?"
> The Middle East has been at war since the beginning of time. The US interfering in civil wars won't change a thing. We lost too many of our young men and women in Iraq. We can't police the entire globe. We have to choose our fights carefully. I thought you knew that already.


If he had kept us in Iraq, that's what she would be complaining about. They are so illogical and spiteful. A dangerous combination, indeed.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

joeysomma said:


> Couple Rejects Abortion, Chooses Life for All Their Quintuplets
> 
> by Liz Townsend | Austin, TX | LifeNews.com | 12/17/13 7:10 PM
> 
> ...


This just goes to show that western medicine isn't always right. Good for them! Mazel tov, wilkinson family!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> You, too? I get quite a few chuckles just reading this thread.


Yeah, this is addictive because it makes me sort of laugh. I love all of the stupid and funny posts. I'm here with a perpetual smile.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Ha! You think the Democrats are desperate? What do you call the lawsuit against President Obama? Now that's desperation! If a president disagrees with your party, sue 'im! The recalcitrant babies in the House have accomplished NOTHING for the citizens of the US, but they all picked up their pay checks.


Necessary

Why did Obama purposely overstep his authority? He spoke in such a defiant way that he goaded the GOP to do something and lying and telling people that they were going to impeach him. This is the man that said: If they bring knives we will bring guns. They can ride the bus, they just have to sit in the back. When you talk to Republican get in their face, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, you will save $2,500 on your insurance premiums, not a smidgen of scandal at the IRS....... He goads, lies, and runs backward from the lines he drew in the sand like a sissy girl when challenged.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Besides, anyone who goes to Karl Rove for advice really is desperate.


Sad, but true


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


I just laugh if someone with third generation money claims to be rich by their own efforts and acumen.

The usual story is the first generation makes the money and founds the business. The second generation keeps it afloat and doesn't lose much, and the third generation grows up feeling entitled and blows it on luxuries or dissipation. If they are lucky there is some grunt in management who keeps it from falling down around their ears.

As far as winning the lottery is concerned, I hope the instant millionaires get reliable advice so they can enjoy their winnings and found a family trust to provide for themselves and future generations. Too many folks who become rich quickly are taken advantage of and cheated and robbed. That is very sad. They are usually very deserving of the comfort and security money offers.

For myself, I may not have as much as many others, but what I have I came by honestly through personal effort by my husband and myself. We don't have to deprive ourselves of as much yarn as I want for my stash or whatever photography and boat stuff my husband wants to pursue his interests. We have never been fancy. We try to keep a low profile and just enjoy our modest interests.

The folks who enjoy jewelry, furs, cruises, expensive new cars, all the rich people accoutrements, if they can afford them and enjoy them, more power to them. It is when they start to boast about their "stuff" and show off that I get turned off. I have a friend who could probably buy and sell half the community who lives a modest life in a modest house. To look at her nobody would think she is wealthy. And she tries to find the good in everybody she meets. There is a role model.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

PRESIDENT Obama has only overstepped his authority on one occasion that we know of, he appointed Dept. heads when the Congress was not legitimately on leave. 
Defiant? The man is the leader of the free world, he doesn't have to be defiant to anyone.

At a campaign stop in PA in 2008, then candidate Obama said of the team who were trying to elect the guy who sang "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" 
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/06/14/obama-if-they-bring-a-knife-to-the-fight-we-bring-a-gun/
Thats exactly what Barack Obama said he would do to counter Republican attacks If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun, Obama said at a Philadelphia fundraiser Friday night. Because from what I understand folks in Philly like a good brawl. Ive seen Eagles fans.

Sen. Barack Obama talks at a town hall meeting at Radnor Middle School in Wayne, Pa., Saturday, June 14. (AP)
The comment drew some laughs and applause. But it also struck a chord with his Republican rival. John McCains campaign immediately accused the Democratic candidate of playing the politics of fear. They also mentioned that Obama said he would use a gun that would be illegal under Obamas plans to cut down on illegal firearms.

Barack Obamas call for new politics is officially over. In just 24 hours, Barack Obama attacked one of Americas pioneering women CEOs, rejected a series of joint bipartisan town halls, and said that if theres a political knife fight, hed bring a gun, McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds said in a statement.

Obama made the comment in the context of warning donors that the general election campaign against McCain could get ugly. Theyre going to try to scare people. Theyre going to try to say that that Obama is a scary guy, he said. A supporter yelled out a deep accented Dont give in!

I wont but that sounded pretty scary. Youre a tough guy, Obama said.

This is what PRESIDENT Obama said as he referred to members of the GOP sitting in the back of the bus. 
The Associated Press reports:

President Barack Obama attacked Republicans with gusto Monday as he plunged into a final week of midterm election campaigning, but his partys prognosis remained darkened by the feeble economy and his itinerary was designed largely to minimize losses.

He said Republicans had driven the economy into a ditch and then stood by and criticized while Democrats pulled it out. Now that progress has been made, he said, we cant have special interests sitting shotgun. We gotta have middle class families up in front. We dont mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back.

If you know a politician who doesn't "stretch the truth" you don't know any.



lovethelake said:


> Necessary
> 
> Why did Obama purposely overstep his authority? He spoke in such a defiant way that he goaded the GOP to do something and lying and telling people that they were going to impeach him. This is the man that said: If they bring knives we will bring guns. They can ride the bus, they just have to sit in the back. When you talk to Republican get in their face, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, you will save $2,500 on your insurance premiums, not a smidgen of scandal at the IRS....... He goads, lies, and runs backward from the lines he drew in the sand like a sissy girl when challenged.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> What in God's name would you know about class? You have none.
> You are way of the mark today. Nipping the hard stuff again, Pudge?
> What's even is more pathetic is *your* jealousy over the perks of the presidency. I've never seen anyone throw such a hissy fit over the game of golf.


Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?

Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................

Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


 :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Where in my post did I say that he wanted the job for the perks? You are getting lousy at what you used to be good at. Spinning. Now you are getting much better at looking like a whiny old idiot.
Deal with it, Pudgy. Bush and all the presidents before him had all of the same perks. 
You forget that the Obamas, before the presidency, were and still are quite affluent. Jealousy makes you ugly, Pudge.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I just laugh if someone with third generation money claims to be rich by their own efforts and acumen.
> 
> The usual story is the first generation makes the money and founds the business. The second generation keeps it afloat and doesn't lose much, and the third generation grows up feeling entitled and blows it on luxuries or dissipation. If they are lucky there is some grunt in management who keeps it from falling down around their
> 
> ...


A small part of an article from:
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/s/stanley-millionaire.html

YOU OR YOUR ANCESTORS?

Most of America's millionaires are first-generation rich. How is it possible for people from modest backgrounds to become millionaires in one generation? Why is it that so many people with similar socioeconomic backgrounds never accumulate even modest amounts of wealth?

Most people who become millionaires have confidence in their own abilities. They do not spend time worrying about whether or not their parents were wealthy. They do not believe that one must be born wealthy. Conversely, people of modest backgrounds who believe that only the wealthy produce millionaires are predetermined to remain non-affluent. Have you always thought that most millionaires are born with silver spoons in their mouths? If so, consider the following facts that our research uncovered about American millionaires:

* Only 19 percent receive any income or wealth of any kind from a trust fund or an estate.

* Fewer than 20 percent inherited 10 percent or more of their wealth.

* More than half never received as much as $1 in inheritance.

* Fewer than 25 percent ever received "an act of kindness" of $10,000 or more from their parents, grandparents, or other relatives.

* Ninety-one percent never received, as a gift, as much as $1 of the ownership of a family business.

* Nearly half never received any college tuition from their parents or other relatives.

* Fewer than 10 percent believe they will ever receive an inheritance in the future.

America continues to hold great prospects for those who wish to accumulate wealth in one generation. In fact, America has always been a land of opportunity for those who believe in the fluid nature of our nation's social system and economy.

More than one hundred years ago the same was true. In The American Economy, Stanley Lebergott reviews a study conducted in 1892 of the 4,047 American millionaires. He reports that 84 percent "were nouveau riche, having reached the top without the benefit of inherited wealth."


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> As usual, you are completely missing the boat. The topic was learning to live with an EARNED wage. How did this person earn her wage if it was handed to her? Just bc she didn't STEAL it, doesn't mean she earned it. The 2 terms are mutually exclusive. Really? Do stock brokers make so little that the loss of one client will make them unable to feed their kids? What about all the people who lose the jobs they have worked hard at their entire lives bc a company decides to "save a few bucks" for their shareholders and CEOs by moving jobs oversees? The CEOs and shareholders won't fail to supply for their children if the jobs remained in the US. However, these workers fail to have a LIVELIHOOD; feed, cloth, house, etc. their children, when these jobs are gone.
> 
> My statement has nothing to do with class envy.
> 
> I think you might have "intelligence envy" in this case.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Go do some cartwheels, solo.


BrattyPatty
can't do, her bloomers are too tight.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> can't do, her bloomers are too tight.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

This is pretty interesting. 
With the link there is a map of the US showing the richest person per state and a link to a bio of each.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/07/31/these-are-the-richest-people-in-each-state/
(and no, I didn't think that I would ever post something from The Blaze)

So how did they get to where they are? Are they all self-made entrepreneurs, or were they just lucky? Do they hoard all that wealth, or do they give back? Chris Kolmar, chief armchair economist for Movoto, asked.

The real estate blog found that these elite are a mix of entrepreneurs and those who inherited grand wealth.

Of the wealthiest in each state, roughly half are founders of companies. Another major path to wealth is inheritance, with the Waltons being the most striking example, Kolmar wrote, citing the founder of Walmart, Sam Walton, and how a few of his family members are the wealthiest people in their states, including Texas, Wyoming and Arkansas.

Taking it a step further, Movoto also found that higher education doesnt necessarily equate to more wealth.

From an undergraduate education to the coveted Ph.D., most members of the list have some sort of college degree. But years spent studying on campus isnt necessarily a prerequisite to striking it rich. Bill Gates, a college dropout, is the wealthiest of them all, Kolmar wrote. On the other side of the academic spectrum, Delawares Robert Gore holds a Ph.D. but ranks second to last in terms of his net worth.



MarilynKnits said:


> I just laugh if someone with third generation money claims to be rich by their own efforts and acumen.
> 
> The usual story is the first generation makes the money and founds the business. The second generation keeps it afloat and doesn't lose much, and the third generation grows up feeling entitled and blows it on luxuries or dissipation. If they are lucky there is some grunt in management who keeps it from falling down around their ears.
> 
> ...


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> PRESIDENT Obama has only overstepped his authority on one occasion that we know of, he appointed Dept. heads when the Congress was not legitimately on leave.
> Defiant? The man is the leader of the free world, he doesn't have to be defiant to anyone.
> 
> At a campaign stop in PA in 2008, then candidate Obama said of the team who were trying to elect the guy who sang "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran"
> ...


Thank you, Knitanon!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> It's so ironic that a poster with such a beautiful avatar can show such an ugly personality.



----


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl
thank you. May those poor departed be as free as the Butterfly.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Pathetic


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Colbert and Stewart are intending to be funny. The others are hilarious without intending to be; they seem to think their comments are meaningful and serious, which is enough to send me flying off my chair in gales of laughter.


MarilynKnits
I am happy to have a Pal in you when rushing to the Throne in "gales of laughter". Love that expression. Thank you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: Pelosi wanted to sue President Bush, and stated she had the authority to do so. Now she says Boehner doesn't have authority. Oh but she is a Democrat.


There was good reason!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> MarilynKnits
> I am happy to have a Pal in you when rushing to the Throne in "gales of laughter". Love that expression. Thank you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> I just laugh if someone with third generation money claims to be rich by their own efforts and acumen.
> 
> The usual story is the first generation makes the money and founds the business. The second generation keeps it afloat and doesn't lose much, and the third generation grows up feeling entitled and blows it on luxuries or dissipation. If they are lucky there is some grunt in management who keeps it from falling down around their ears.
> 
> ...


Exactly how I feel! You took the words right out of my mouth. On all of it.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> PRESIDENT Obama has only overstepped his authority on one occasion that we know of, he appointed Dept. heads when the Congress was not legitimately on leave.
> Defiant? The man is the leader of the free world, he doesn't have to be defiant to anyone.
> 
> At a campaign stop in PA in 2008, then candidate Obama said of the team who were trying to elect the guy who sang "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran"
> ...


Come on, knitanon. This isn't fair. You know that the "truth" and "context" are completely lost on them.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Designer1234 said:


> :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:


Right?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> can't do, her bloomers are too tight.


And they are usually in a twist.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


They can quit whining and get their proverbial arses to work!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


You know Boehner's theme song. It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want To"


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> You know Boehner's theme song. It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want To"


 :XD: :XD:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


The president did exactly what the repubs wanted---he gave employers extra time. Then the sue him over it? Give me a break!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Why didn't they sue when President Obama didn't hold firm and make sure that ALL of the federal income tax cuts ended when they were supposed to?
Oh right, because they didn't want their rich buddies to pay higher taxes.



joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


joey, joey. What you say doesn't even make any sense any more. I just shake my head and smile when I read what you post. Too bad you quit thinking and gave in to the mind numbing party hogwash. Maybe if you ask the Wizard he will give you a brain and throw in a heart too. You lost them along the way too but I guess that's what you have to do to be a Republican today. Karma is a bitch and it will come back to bite you poor dear.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Why didn't they sue when President Obama didn't hold firm and make sure that ALL of the federal income tax cuts ended when they were supposed to?
> Oh right, because they didn't want their rich buddies to pay higher taxes.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Yes! Boehner has a very good reason to sue. There is a law called the ACA passed by the Democrats in both Houses and signed by Barak Obama. Now Barak Obama will not enforce it as written. Since that is HIS job as described in the Constitution, and he is not doing what he legally has a responsibility to do. What else can the House do but sue?


I don't believe that Boehner is capable of reasoning at all.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> joey, joey. What you say doesn't even make any sense any more. I just shake my head and smile when I read what you post. Too bad you quit thinking and gave in to the mind numbing party hogwash. Maybe if you ask the Wizard he will give you a brain and throw in a heart too. You lost them along the way too but I guess that's what you have to do to be a Republican today. Karma is a bitch and it will come back to bite you poor dear.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Lakes - didn't you get "perks" at your workplace? Or did you turn them down? Do you believe that corporate heads deserve their perks? If you say yes then the same applies to the president since he is a corporate head, also.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> Lakes - didn't you get "perks" at your workplace? Or did you turn them down? Do you believe that corporate heads deserve their perks? If you say yes then the same applies to the president since he is a corporate head, also.


She just hates Obama, SQ. It gets her girdle snapping when she sees that he isn't in chains being whipped in the oval office. 
(take that whatever way to want to.)


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Personally, I think it is class envy. 
Just maybe someone can't stand that this self made man has earned the right to play on the most exclusive links in the US.



SQM said:


> Lakes - didn't you get "perks" at your workplace? Or did you turn them down? Do you believe that corporate heads deserve their perks? If you say yes then the same applies to the president since he is a corporate head, also.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She just hates Obama, SQ. It gets her girdle snapping when she sees that he isn't in chains being whipped in the oval office.
> (take that whatever way to want to.)


HAHAHAA


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She just hates Obama, SQ. It gets her girdle snapping when she sees that he isn't in chains being whipped in the oval office.
> (take that whatever way to want to.)


Oh LTL isn't a racist, Patty. Just ask her and she will tell you it's the Liberals who are racists. Now isn't that special??????!!!!!!!
P.S. Word on the street LTL wears spanks. Doesn't help her looks or her personality. Probably so uncomfortable, poor dear.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She just hates Obama, SQ. It gets her girdle snapping when she sees that he isn't in chains being whipped in the oval office.
> (take that whatever way to want to.)


You know how I am taking it. Quite an image if she is indeed Pudgy.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Personally, I think it is class envy.
> Just maybe someone can't stand that this self made man has earned the right to play on the most exclusive links in the US.


Personally, I think you hit the nail on the head and now that the color barrier in the White House has been crossed they think the sky is falling and the world just doesn't make any sense to them anymore. Poor dears.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Necessary
> 
> Why did Obama purposely overstep his authority? He spoke in such a defiant way that he goaded the GOP to do something and lying and telling people that they were going to impeach him. This is the man that said: If they bring knives we will bring guns. They can ride the bus, they just have to sit in the back. When you talk to Republican get in their face, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, you will save $2,500 on your insurance premiums, not a smidgen of scandal at the IRS....... He goads, lies, and runs backward from the lines he drew in the sand like a sissy girl when challenged.


The GOP has been fighting him since he was first elected, and it was what he said last week that goaded them to do something??? The only things they hadn't done were impeachment and a lawsuit. When the courts throw the suit out, guess what. Impeachment is not popular with voters.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Sad, but true


I had to read this twice, short as it is. True? I said something that was true? :lol: :lol: :lol:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Do you really believe what you wrote? You can't be that silly.

Oh, now that you mention freeloaders, how's your ex-governor's trial going?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Lakes - didn't you get "perks" at your workplace? Or did you turn them down? Do you believe that corporate heads deserve their perks? If you say yes then the same applies to the president since he is a corporate head, also.


Workplace? What's that?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh LTL isn't a racist, Patty. Just ask her and she will tell you it's the Liberals who are racists. Now isn't that special??????!!!!!!!
> P.S. Word on the street LTL wears spanks. Doesn't help her looks or her personality. Probably so uncomfortable, poor dear.


Does she wear them on her pudgy hands?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


Great bunch of pictures, Patty, but how did you get all of them into one message?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think you have become Mary's Little Lamb.


Baaah humbug.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


I'll bet I know who she will say was and wasn't. What about you? Too easy of a play to call?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Baaah humbug.


 :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> She just hates Obama, SQ. It gets her girdle snapping when she sees that he isn't in chains being whipped in the oval office.
> (take that whatever way to want to.)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

She is filled with anger and everything that ever has happened since long before he even came into the picture is his fault. There is no point with arguing with her .She has a closed mind . She also finds it easy to insult because 'she is right' and the rest of the world is wrong.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't believe that Boehner is capable of reasoning at all.


BrattyPatty
I have a strong feeling that Orange John takes his favorite liquid now and then during the day because at times he really slurs his speech. Poor Guy doesn't know if he is going or staying. No job security for him. And applause please, Eric Cantor moved out today. At least he no longer is a threat to Boehner. He had his dagger on Boehner's back constantly.

"...One guy at a time dear ........
One guy at a time.."

darn, now I am singing this till the Sandman cometh.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Did she steal her inheritance? So what is the big deal other than you are experiencing class envy? Would you rather have that person sit in a shack and not spend any of it? Would you rather that person not hire that person that who would use the money to feed their family? Are you as jealous of people that win the lottery? pathetic


And you have class snobbery, LTL.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I started out looking for impeachment talk from right wing officials who had been elected. 
I quickly got lost in the comments on this website. They were so funny, I just had to post them. 
They are still arguing over the end of the gold standard, how is that for before your time, NC?

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/breaking-formal-articles-of-impeachment-written-by-michael-connelly-constitutional-attorney


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's what the party line calls it, so that's what the coven calls it.


PP, let's not denigrate poor witches, lol.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> 
> Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country


Thanks for clearing this up--you are a snob who isn't very bright.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You know Boehner's theme song. It's My Party and I'll Cry if I Want To"


He's making Kimberly-Clark even richer with all those tears. You can bet he doesn't use cheap tissues!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I don't believe that Boehner is capable of reasoning at all.


He doesn't need reason, just the ability to do as he's told.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake wrote:
Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?

Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................

Thanks for clearing that up, because no other president wanted the job for 'the perks', thought it was for love of country
===========
*Quote of the day*:

"Until you have learned to be tolerant with those who do not always agree with you: until you have cultivated the habit of saying some kind word of those whom you do not admire;until you have formed the habit of looking for the good instead of the bad there is in others, you will be neither successful or happy! Author, Napoleon Hill


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I had to read this twice, short as it is. True? I said something that was true? :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hope you were sitting down. Better write it down somewhere because it isn't likely to happen again, lol.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Talk to Harry Reid about voting on all the bills sitting on his desk. That is where the work has stopped.


joeysomma
smart Man he is. Why waste OUR money.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


BrattyPatty
you must have invented those pictures, only President Obama plays golf, don't you know? Now if you could come up with the many vacation pictures from all of them vs. Obama, that would be super. I have to say, Obama is being short-changed in every respect and he handles it very well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> He doesn't need reason, just the ability to do as he's told.


maysmom
that is what makes him partake more. He is shaking in his boots about his job, poor Sucker. And with all of the lies he has to spew, he must be wearing out the confession booth. I bet that seat's spring has no spring in it anymore. I wonder if he "addresses" his golf balls with the names of his "best buddies". Good way to release frustration.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> that is what makes him partake more. He is shaking in his boots about his job, poor Sucker. And with all of the lies he has to spew, he must be wearing out the confession booth. I bet that seat's spring has no spring in it anymore.


And I'll bet the poor priest has consumed all the sacrificial wine, lol.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> And I'll bet the poor priest has consumed all the sacrificial wine, lol.


maysmom

poor man needs a bosom buddy and who better than a priest who has plenty of his own frustrations.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> I started out looking for impeachment talk from right wing officials who had been elected.
> I quickly got lost in the comments on this website. They were so funny, I just had to post them.
> They are still arguing over the end of the gold standard, how is that for before your time, NC?
> 
> http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/breaking-formal-articles-of-impeachment-written-by-michael-connelly-constitutional-attorney


These clowns take themselves so seriously. Please, please, please, GOP, impeach. They'll lose the midterms so badly they'll have to dig tunnels to sneak out of the Capitol.

And wasn't it Nixon who totally killed the gold standard? They're blaming FDR. But why learn facts when you can make up what you want?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh LTL isn't a racist, Patty. Just ask her and she will tell you it's the Liberals who are racists. Now isn't that special??????!!!!!!!
> P.S. Word on the street LTL wears spanks. Doesn't help her looks or her personality. Probably so uncomfortable, poor dear.


No spanking allowed in glass houses, O'Cheeky one!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> PP, let's not denigrate poor witches, lol.


Are they poor? They sure pretend. On Ravelry, their group calls itself Denim and Pearls and Prada.

Oh, you meant real witches. You're right; I shouldn't have maligned them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Thanks for clearing this up--you are a snob who isn't very bright.


 :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> lovethelake wrote:
> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> ...


Perfect!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Hope you were sitting down. Better write it down somewhere because it isn't likely to happen again, lol.


I could bookmark it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> you must have invented those pictures, only President Obama plays golf, don't you know? Now if you could come up with the many vacation pictures from all of them vs. Obama, that would be super. I have to say, Obama is being short-changed in every respect and he handles it very well.


Agree with him or not, you have to admit he has class. Oh, wait, they say he drools on cafeteria food. What a low-class bunch they all are.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:



> Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


Seems like it is part of the job description. Actually I imagine work gets done on the links. Male bonding and persuasion.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think their paychecks should be forfeit until they pass a bi-partisan bill by consensus.

Any Democratic lawyers who want to make a name for themselves?



BrattyPatty said:


> I want my money back.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And yet the deficit keeps getting smaller under him. You're mistaken about "wasted" money.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Did you think that up all by yourself? Stop there. It's much too vague to be of any use. Stifle.



soloweygirl said:


> Of course there will. When everyone is allowed to live in peace.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Or, in right-speak, "neener neener neener."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: It's always a belly laugh when the RWN's try to be clever.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

They all seem to gather fury from the saddest things. Don't ask me why they don't find a way to live together instead of kill each other.



Wombatnomore said:


> How much can the people on both sides endure though and for how much longer? I agree that conflict is a way of life for some but enough already? So very sad and scary.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Maybe this Iraqi conflict can be blamed on President Obama,too? Just like the spill over from Syria?
> 
> The IranIraq War, also known as the First Persian Gulf War,[27][28][29][30][31] was an armed conflict between the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Republic of Iraq lasting from September 1980 to August 1988, making it the 20th century's longest conventional war.[32][33] It was initially referred to in English as the "Gulf War" prior to the Persian Gulf War of the early 1990s.[34]
> 
> ...




BAZINGA


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Uh huh. And how many people do you "libel" here on this site and various threads?
> I don't call it libel. I call it seeing you for what you represent yourself to be.
> You got suspended for your anti semitic post. Remember?


Shhhhhh. Maybe we'll get lucky again. She can't say much worse. (fingers crossed)


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I think their paychecks should be forfeit until they pass a bi-partisan bill by consensus.
> 
> Any Democratic lawyers who want to make a name for themselves?


I've been saying that for sooooo long. Grrrrr
:evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> <whisper behind my hand {I think I may be there now...}>. :? :|


Make my day.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks.



Natureschampion said:


> Well, I think you are a very wise sage indeed. Don't be scared. It was bound to happen someday!!
> 
> Said with the utmost of love, of course.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Do they care? It isn't their own money, and they have all us suckers to sock for more taxes via inflation to cover what they squander. Look at Chris Christie spending megabucks on a special election so he wouldn't have to see votes for Corey Booker cut his lead. So to cover the loss, he is trying to steal more money from public employee pension funds.


Doesn't surprise me one bit.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> Make my day.


I don't know if I'm at your level of "badness" yet though. Let me take some more lessons from you, and I will blow your mind!

Wish there was an emoticon for THAT!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> BAZINGA


Darn you! :twisted: :twisted:

I wish there was a :Sheldon death glare: emoticon


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I saw a 10 year old on the news saying he wanted to be a suicide bomber to kill Israelis. I'm going to quit watching the news.

The optimist in me says, if they had jobs and attainable goals, would they begin to change? If they could somehow stop reliving the past and look to the future?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

damemary said:


> I saw a 10 year old on the news saying he wanted to be a suicide bomber to kill Israelis. I'm going to quit watching the news.


Good idea.

Did you see the video I posted of the son of a Hamas leader who defected?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Computer confuser refused to go there.



Natureschampion said:


> Good idea.
> 
> Did you see the video I posted of the son of a Hamas leader who defected?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't know if I'm at your level of "badness" yet though. Let me take some more lessons from you, and I will blow your mind!
> 
> Wish there was an emoticon for THAT!


I wish I were better at emoticons and I would go from bad to worse. I feel no need to be Christian.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You snooze, you lose.



Natureschampion said:


> Darn you! :twisted: :twisted:
> 
> I wish there was a :Sheldon death glare: emoticon


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think you have become Mary's Little Lamb.


I think you have become Edgar Bergen's dummy.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> BrattyPatty
> I have a strong feeling that Orange John takes his favorite liquid now and then during the day because at times he really slurs his speech. Poor Guy doesn't know if he is going or staying. No job security for him. And applause please, Eric Cantor moved out today. At least he no longer is a threat to Boehner. He had his dagger on Boehner's back constantly.
> 
> "...One guy at a time dear ........
> ...


Huck,
I am so happy Cantor is out. I almost feel sorry for Boehner. He sure likes his martini lunches.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Bazinga Patty!



BrattyPatty said:


> I think you have become Edgar Bergen's dummy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Huck,
> I am so happy Cantor is out. I almost feel sorry for Boehner. He sure likes his martini lunches.


If he'd just go sleep it off.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> It's why I come on here.


Me, too.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Wasn't that the Devil who wore Prada?


Poor Purl said:


> Are they poor? They sure pretend. On Ravelry, their group calls itself Denim and Pearls and Prada.
> 
> Oh, you meant real witches. You're right; I shouldn't have maligned them.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> lovethelake wrote:
> Perks..........so that is why Obama wanted to be president?
> 
> Now it makes sense he wanted to be a freeloader. He wanted free housing, free food, free transportation, free golf, free health care, free cable, free dvd's before they are released, free lunches, free.............................
> ...


So is that why you are so nasty and snippy at times when people don't agree with you? Thanks for clearing that up for me, now I understand


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, wombat, I'm ready to answer your question, and I will start with this.
> 
> No, war is NOT the answer. And it never is amongst human beings who value life. There is a subspecies of homosapiens (I cannot use the word "human" in this context) who do not value life in the least, and use people as weapons and tools to destroy this gift.
> 
> ...


Thank you Nature, for your perspective. Very helpful. Let's hope, that by what ever means, cooler heads will prevail in the immediate future.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You are among friends, and have been for a long time now. Good to see you around.


Thanks Marilyn, that is really kind of you but there is a tail through certain legs and rightfully so. Said tail will be wagging soon.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is even more heart breaking when so many people are dying because their leadership refuses to accept a cease fire and uses them as cannon fodder to subvert public opinion.


Too confusing and totally devastating. I said in a previous post, I struggle to find perspective. I wish there was a non-invasive way the world could intervene and succeed in stopping this carnage.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> So is that why you are so nasty and snippy at times when people don't agree with you? Thanks for clearing that up for me, now I understand


It also explains why the lot of them are neither successful nor happy.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> No spanking allowed in glass houses, O'Cheeky one!


Ahh - but remember no more houses for buttcheeks ... rentals only.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> So is that why you are so nasty and snippy at times when people don't agree with you? Thanks for clearing that up for me, now I understand


 :shock: :shock: :?:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh LTL isn't a racist, Patty. Just ask her and she will tell you it's the Liberals who are racists. Now isn't that special??????!!!!!!!
> P.S. Word on the street LTL wears spanks. Doesn't help her looks or her personality. Probably so uncomfortable, poor dear.


Who ever named that foundation garment? Spanks or Spanx? It sounds so S & M!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I think you have become Mary's Little Lamb.


Nope, she is a person who thinks before she comments, weighs the facts, and has the courage of her convictions. A grown up who does not play follow the leader.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wonder if these guys were in it for the perks?


Don't forget this one. Somebody was brave enough to get close enough to take a picture.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thanks Marilyn, that is really kind of you but there is a tail through certain legs and rightfully so. Said tail will be wagging soon.


And said head held high as it deserves to be.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Man Rapes Little Girl for Three Years  Planned Parenthood Helps Him Cover it Up
> 
> By Onan Coca	/ 1 August 2014	/ 2 Comments
> 
> ...


This story is repulsive. This *is* the real and only War on Women. All the abortion clinics mentioned in this article need to be immediately closed, and because they all failed to follow the law, those people involved need to be legally prosecuted and incarcerated for turning a blind eye to a child who was repeatedly raped, tortured and abused.

Joey, Don't all the Libs on this thread argue and fight for a female's right to make decisions for her OWN body? Why was this little girl denied her right? I guess the Libs turn a blind eye to every post born fetus precisely like all the abusers in this article.

At the TaxPayers' expense at the minimum with PP!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Wasn't that the Devil who wore Prada?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Thanks for the reminder.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

The kind I admire.



MarilynKnits said:


> Nope, she is a person who thinks before she comments, weighs the facts, and has the courage of her convictions. A grown up who does not play follow the leader.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Suffering is suffering.



MarilynKnits said:


> Who ever named that foundation garment? Spanks or Spanx? It sounds so S & M!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And this sounds like..............



knitpresentgifts said:


> It also explains why the lot of them are neither successful nor happy.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> So is that why you are so nasty and snippy at times when people don't agree with you? Thanks for clearing that up for me, now I understand


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: You have no gift for self knowledge. But it makes for a hearty laugh.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And a boot to yours.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Ahh - but remember no more houses for buttcheeks ... rentals only.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

And don't forget Dick Cheney and duck hunting. Du.........famous last words.



MarilynKnits said:


> Don't forget this one. Somebody was brave enough to get close enough to take a picture.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It also explains why the lot of them are neither successful nor happy.


Always forgive your enemies - nothing annoys them so much. Oscar Wilde


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> This story is repulsive. This *is* the real and only War on Women. All the abortion clinics mentioned in this article need to be immediately closed, and because they all failed to follow the law, those people involved need to be legally prosecuted and incarcerated for turning a blind eye to a child who was repeatedly raped, tortured and abused.
> 
> Joey, Don't all the Libs on this thread argue and fight for a female's right to make decisions for her OWN body? Why was this little girl denied her right? I guess the Libs turn a blind eye to every post born fetus precisely like all the abusers in this article.
> 
> At the TaxPayers' expense at the minimum with PP!


Why didn't one of your group do something to protect her?
You care so much for children.

That is right until they are born then they can be forgotten, Come on!!!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> These clowns take themselves so seriously. Please, please, please, GOP, impeach. They'll lose the midterms so badly they'll have to dig tunnels to sneak out of the Capitol.
> 
> And wasn't it Nixon who totally killed the gold standard? They're blaming FDR. But why learn facts when you can make up what you want?


Poor Purl
I love your vivid descriptions. Keep them coming.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> No spanking allowed in glass houses, O'Cheeky one!


Gerslay, it's time I gave you credit for cleverness. Unlike too many others, you never just respond with "LIAR" or some convoluted insult. I may disagree with the content, but at least you have fun with the words.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> It just shows how good the laws are when no one cares to enforce them. The sheriff or chief of police must be liberal as they are acting just like Obama. They have chosen to not enforce this law since it does not fit the liberal agenda.


I give you the grand prize for making a remark that has nothing to do with the one you were supposedly addressing.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay, it's time I gave you credit for cleverness. Unlike too many others, you never just respond with "LIAR" or some convoluted insult. I may disagree with the content, but at least you have fun with the words.


yeah I am fond of Gers also. Decent fellow.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I think you have become Edgar Bergen's dummy.


She sure ain't no Candice Bergen.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> So is that why you are so nasty and snippy at times when people don't agree with you? Thanks for clearing that up for me, now I understand


Why try? You're neither funny nor clever, just schoolmarmish.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> And a boot to yours.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> It just shows how good the laws are when no one cares to enforce them. The sheriff or chief of police must be liberal as they are acting just like Obama. They have chosen to not enforce this law since it does not fit the liberal agenda.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Why try? You're neither funny nor clever, just schoolmarmish.


Now why are you insulting by association all of us who were at one time or another schoolmarms? Tsk.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Executive Order 6102 is a United States presidential executive order signed on April 5, 1933, by President Franklin D. Roosevelt "forbidding the Hoarding of gold coin, gold bullion, and gold certificates within the continental United States". The order criminalized the possession of monetary gold by any individual, partnership, association or corporation.


But the dollar was still pegged to the price of gold, which is what is meant by "gold standard."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I give you the grand prize for making a remark that has nothing to do with the one you were supposedly addressing.


Oh, Maid, where have you been? Anyway, welcome back. I love Laurel and Hardy - so much cleverer than they get credit for.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah I am fond of Gers also. Decent fellow.


I wouldn't go that far. :lol: :lol: :lol: But she does try to make her posts interesting.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Ahh - but remember no more houses for buttcheeks ... rentals only.


Then you better start packing. You'll need an extra bedroom for your own "buttcheeks".

Don't think for a minute that nobody caught on to your barb. 
She has more class and knowledge than you could ever dream of having.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: it was the one about Planned Parenthood not being sanctioned for failure to report sexual abuse of minor. (as required by law). What in the world, did you think I was addressing?


The false claim against Planned Parenthood, of course. Interesting how the only sources reporting it are unashamedly biased; some of their claims are even wackier than this one.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> The false claim against Planned Parenthood, of course. Interesting how the only sources reporting it are unashamedly biased; some of their claims are even wackier than this one.


Like Karl Rove said, PP, keep repeating the lie..........


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Like Karl Rove said, PP, keep repeating the lie..........


...and you'll end up like Karl Rove, useless.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> ...and you'll end up like Karl Rove, useless.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: it was the one about Planned Parenthood not being sanctioned for failure to report sexual abuse of minor. (as required by law). What in the world, did you think I was addressing?


Designer1234 wrote:
Why didn't one of your group do something to protect her?
You care so much for children. 
That is right until they are born then they can be forgotten, Come on!!!

You wrote in response to her:
It just shows how good the laws are when no one cares to enforce them. The sheriff or chief of police must be liberal as they are acting just like Obama. They have chosen to not enforce this law.

I wrote:
I give you the grand prize for making a remark that has nothing to do with the one you were supposedly addressing.

*And now I add:
Planned Parenthood is a responsible organization. IF they knew some form of abuse was happening to anyone they serve IN ANY WAY they would report it in a hot minute. They do care to observe the laws that apply to them, and do care to do what is morally responsible.

Futherly, it's irrelevant that the police MIGHT be liberals (or acting like Obama, whatever THAT means) The police don't go around inspecting Planned Parenthood facilities. THAT'S NOT THEIR JOB.*


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It also explains why the lot of them are neither successful nor happy.


It makes me laugh that you think we are the angry ones. Our man is in office for 2 terms. Just look at LTL's posts and see who is angry. The next presidential election will be ours, too. You guys can't seem to find a candidate with any brains intact.

Success? I look at my kids and grandchild and see success. Don't you?
Oh wait, you don't have any. So how could you possibly know?
You really need to go back to the shrink. Your projection problem is getting worse.

Success is to be measured not so much by the position that one has reached in life as by the obstacles which he has overcome.
-Booker T. Washington


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> But they think corporations ARE paying their fair share.
> 
> And you're right. That is why it is up to intelligent, reasonable, and considerate people like us to educate people. Outside of that, we cannot force people to see the truth. They live with their own "truths" and nothing could be said otherwise, besides the people who are feeding them these lies.


How will you start your education of the masses, by proclaiming success is a bad thing? That everyone should aspire to not reach their potential, or should they be average? That way you might just achieve equality.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> By getting us OUT OF a a multibillion dollar war, that was based on false information? Really? Did he start the war, too? 5 or however many years before he took office? Hm...
> 
> That was rhetorical, btw.


The information wasn't completely false information. ISIS has found a major stockpile of Hussain's WMD's, which our State Dept. has verified.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> When WE went in and got Saddam Hussein, it created a power vacuum. The terrorists in the outlying nations were counting on this. What was Obama supposed to do, stay there and lose more American lives in a war we never should have joined in the first place? Let me guess, you were "all for" the joining and staying in the Korean and Vietnam conflicts.
> 
> Are we supposed to sacrifice our own men, women, and money to police the world?


Obama could have cut off ISIS's supply lines, crippling them. He has drones and knows how to use them., causing our military no harm. Then again you must have believed Obama when he said over and over that Al Quaeda is decimated and on the run. Tell that to the surviving family members after ISIS "visited" their cities. It will be such a comfort.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> Necessary
> 
> Why did Obama purposely overstep his authority? He spoke in such a defiant way that he goaded the GOP to do something and lying and telling people that they were going to impeach him. This is the man that said: If they bring knives we will bring guns. They can ride the bus, they just have to sit in the back. When you talk to Republican get in their face, if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor, you will save $2,500 on your insurance premiums, not a smidgen of scandal at the IRS....... He goads, lies, and runs backward from the lines he drew in the sand like a sissy girl when challenged.


The world is watching Obama and listening to his words and how he uses them on his own countrymen/women. It's no wonder he has lost respect from the world's leaders. There are also a handful that behave in a similar manner who are cheering Obama on.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh, Maid, where have you been? Anyway, welcome back. I love Laurel and Hardy - so muchcleverer than they get credit for.


I've been really busy with a young woman who's 33 and who my brother and I have known since she was about 18 months old. She ended up as a very troubled person. Drug addiction, alcoholism and too many things to list here. We looked for her periodically and finally found her a couple of weeks ago on Facebook after a ten year gap in our relationship.

My brother and I were like an aunt and uncle to her and her two sisters. 12 years ago she was pregnant and her parents wouldn't help out with getting the things she'd need when the baby was born. My brother and I stepped up and made sure she had everything for the baby from a crib down to a lot of onsies. Her parents were outraged by what we did. They confused and still confuse caring, loving and being concerned about their daughter as APPROVAL of what she was doing. We didn't approve one bit about how she was conducting her life. We and they parted company and we highly doubt we will ever speak to them again.

We're working on reestablishing a positive and constructive relationship with this young woman. Until about 4 years ago her life continued to be very turbulent and troubled, and we hope that we can be a good influence on her, though we know there is very little tangible help we can give her. In fact, we've worked out what we can and cannot do.

This young woman and her family would be perfect candidates to appear on Dr. Phil so we are starting a letter writing campaign to see if we can get them on his show. This may sound really silly but these people actually represent a sizeable number of other families so watching them with Dr. Phil would reach a lot of people which seems to be something he tries to do.

What a soap opera!! My brother and I can hardly believe she's still alive let alone improved her life enough to get her GED and to be seeking help with all her problems.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

soloweygirl said:


> How will you start your education of the masses, by proclaiming success is a bad thing? That everyone should aspire to not reach their potential, or should they be average? That way you might just achieve equality.


When did I ever say success is a bad thing? Anyone who reaches a goal that they set for themselves is a success.

Again, you completely missed my point.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> For myself, I may not have as much as many others, but what I have I came by honestly through personal effort by my husband and myself. We don't have to deprive ourselves of as much yarn as I want for my stash or whatever photography and boat stuff my husband wants to pursue his interests. We have never been fancy. We try to keep a low profile and just enjoy our modest interests.


This is what Joey was saying before your friends jumped down her throat.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> When did I ever say success is a bad thing? Anyone who reaches a goal that they set for themselves is a success.
> 
> Again, you completely missed my point.


NC, nothing you can say to any of the RWNs here will ever get a civilized, intelligent answer unless you are agreeing with them.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It makes me laugh that you think we are the angry ones. Our man is in office for 2 terms. Just look at LTL's posts and see who is angry. The next presidential election will be ours, too. You guys can't seem to find a candidate with any brains intact.
> 
> Success? I look at my kids and grandchild and see success. Don't you?
> Oh wait, you don't have any. So how could you possibly know?
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> The president did exactly what the repubs wanted---he gave employers extra time. Then the sue him over it? Give me a break!


Obama didn't do it for the Republicans. Get real.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I've been really busy with a young woman who's 33 and who my brother and I have known since she was about 18 months old. She ended up as a very troubled person. Drug addiction, alcoholism and too many things to list here. We looked for her periodically and finally found her a couple of weeks ago on Facebook after a ten year gap in our relationship.
> 
> My brother and I were like an aunt and uncle to her and her two sisters. 12 years ago she was pregnant and her parents wouldn't help out with getting the things she'd need when the baby was born. My brother and I stepped up and made sure she had everything for the baby from a crib down to a lot of onsies. Her parents were outraged by what we did. They confused and still confuse caring, loving and being concerned about their daughter as APPROVAL of what she was doing. We didn't approve one bit about how she was conducting her life. We and they parted company and we highly doubt we will ever speak to them again.
> 
> ...


Thinking about what you wrote, it is quite possible the fact that you and your brother cared about her well being may have been the spark that moved her life in a more positive direction. Sometimes just having one or two people see you as a person and not a problem is all it takes to help you hold on.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> How will you start your education of the masses, by proclaiming success is a bad thing? That everyone should aspire to not reach their potential, or should they be average? That way you might just achieve equality.


Do you have any idea what you just said? I doubt it, because it's senseless. How successful have you been? Or your children and grandchildren, if there are any?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> joey, joey. What you say doesn't even make any sense any more. I just shake my head and smile when I read what you post. Too bad you quit thinking and gave in to the mind numbing party hogwash. Maybe if you ask the Wizard he will give you a brain and throw in a heart too. You lost them along the way too but I guess that's what you have to do to be a Republican today. Karma is a bitch and it will come back to bite you poor dear.


Hello Cheeky,

How was your move? Moving is such a PITA, no matter the reason. I hope it was uneventful, with nothing lost or broken and if you used movers that they arrived at the scheduled time.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> I think you have become Mary's Little Lamb.


It happens so easily when one is absent, doesn't it?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Obama could have cut off ISIS's supply lines, crippling them. He has drones and knows how to use them., causing our military no harm. Then again you must have believed Obama when he said over and over that Al Quaeda is decimated and on the run. Tell that to the surviving family members after ISIS "visited" their cities. It will be such a comfort.


Once again I will use your frequent response. "Who is going to pay for it?"
Our troops and civil engineers trained their troops to fight and stand up for themselves. We helped them set up a different form of government than that of Hussein. 
The old adage applies here 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.'


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Hello Cheeky,
> 
> How was your move? Moving is such a PITA, no matter the reason. I hope it was uneventful, with nothing lost or broken and if you used movers that they arrived at the scheduled time.


Actually, the move went very well. I was there to help along with many of their friends. 
No matter the reason? What's your point, solo?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Don't forget this one. Somebody was brave enough to get close enough to take a picture.


Probably used an ultra powerful zoom lens.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> It happens so easily when one is absent, doesn't it?


More like absent minded as you are,
solo.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The world is watching Obama and listening to his words and how he uses them on his own countrymen/women. It's no wonder he has lost respect from the world's leaders. There are also a handful that behave in a similar manner who are cheering Obama on.


That's funny. Last time I looked, he is very well respected globally.
More propaganda from the right, solo?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Probably used an ultra powerful zoom lens.


Because in the ultra negative world of solowey, it couldn't have been taken any other way.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Once again I will use your frequent response. "Who is going to pay for it?"
> Our troops and civil engineers trained their troops to fight and stand up for themselves. We helped them set up a different form of government than that of Hussein.
> The old adage applies here 'You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.'


 President Obama would never have gotten Congress to move on it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The information wasn't completely false information. ISIS has found a major stockpile of Hussain's WMD's, which our State Dept. has verified.


You mean these?

*No, There Are Still No WMDs In Iraq*

If you were to read only the headlines, itd be easy to believe that the Islamic State in Iraq and Greater Syria (ISIS) has managed to do what the United States failed to over a decade ago: find Iraqs weapons of mass destruction materials. What youd miss, however, is the reporting beneath those headlines which explains that the chemicals and uranium that ISIS has seized arent just less than weapons-quality, theyre for the most part completely unusable.
Reuters reported on Wednesday that the Iraqi government had informed the United Nations that the terrorist group had seized nuclear materials from a university in Mosul, the city that kicked-off its string of military successes in Northern Iraq. In all, the group managed to capture around 88 pounds worth of uranium compounds, according to a letter from Iraqs U.N. ambassador to U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon. A quick search of Twitter on the story finds comments from conservatives convinced that somehow the militants of ISIS had proved that Saddam Hussein was in fact carrying out the nuclear program that the Bush administration used as the first justification for the invasion of Iraq. But it turns out that while the headline reading Iraq tells U.N. that terrorist groups seized nuclear materials is quite provocative and easily used to slam the Obama administration, the reality of the reporting is much more mundane.
The capture was confirmed on Thursday in a release from the International Atomic Energy Association, which said that the nuclear watchdog is aware of the notification from Iraq and is in contact to seek further details. But it turns out that the uranium compounds seized are of little to no threat to the general population. Spokesperson Gill Tudor continued on to say that the organization believes the material involved is low-grade and would not present a significant safety, security or nuclear proliferation risk. Nevertheless, any loss of regulatory control over nuclear and other radioactive materials is a cause for concern.
When the IAEA says that the uranium captured is low-grade, they mean that the radioactive material has not been further enriched to a point that it can be used in a nuclear weapon. While lower enriched uranium can possibly used in a dirty bomb  a weapon where conventional explosives are used to spread radioactive material across a wide area  that doesnt appear to be a concern in this situation either. In a follow-up story, Reuters found the same thing in speaking with Olli Heinonen, a former IAEA chief inspector. You cannot make a nuclear explosive from this amount, but all uranium compounds are poisonous, Heinonen told Reuters. This material is also not good enough for a dirty bomb.
This is the second time in a week that reports of ISIS absconding with materials necessary for large-scale attacks with weapons of mass-destruction only to see it dismissed as mostly harmless. The Associated Press on Tuesday reported that ISIS had managed to seize a former chemical weapons depot in Northern Iraq, where 2,500 chemical rockets filled with the deadly nerve agent sarin or their remnants were stored along with other chemical warfare agents. Like the uranium report, this was based on a letter from Iraqs U.N. ambassador to the Secretary-General. This report too saw supporters of the initial invasion pointing to the seizure as evidence that they were right all along. ISIS seizes Saddams formerly nonexistent chemical weapons, the Atlantics Jeffrey Goldberg tweet out.
Later, however, the AP updated its story to add more context and details, including comment from the U.S. government, which showed theres actually very little chance the chemicals leftover could be used for anything resembling a weapon. Back in 1991, as the updated article points out, the United Nations issued a report from the Muthanna facility, located northwest of Baghdad, that said the rockets housed there were damaged in a bombing during the Gulf War. What chemicals remained were of poor quality and would largely be degraded after years of storage under the conditions existing there.
A later report from the Iraq Study Group  which conducted the search for WMDs after the U.S. invasion  came to the same conclusion in 2004. Two wars, sanctions and [United Nations monitoring] reduced Iraqis premier production facility to a stockpile of old, damaged, and contaminated chemical munitions (sealed in bunkers), a wasteland full of destroyed chemical munitions, razed structures, and unusable war-ravaged facilities, the report reads.
The Wall Street Journal also reported the seizure of the Muthanna base three weeks ago. In that story, which AP later updated its own story to include, *State Department spokesperson Jen Psaki in a written statement said that the materials seized doesnt include intact chemical weapons and would be very difficult, if not impossible, to safely use this for military purposes or, frankly, to move it. The Pentagons spokesperson, Rear Adm. John Kirby, echoed that sentiment more recently, telling Reuters, We arent viewing this particular site and their holding it as a major issue at this point. Should they even be able to access the materials, frankly, it would likely be more of a threat to them than anyone else.*
So while the reporting in the original Reuters and AP pieces on nuclear and chemical weapons materials remain solid, the headlines havent changed, leading readers who only skim the articles to believe the threat is much more severe than it actually is. Though Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel has labeled ISIS as an imminent threat to the United States, that threat wont be coming from anything that the militants have seized in Iraq.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/07/10/3458691/still-no-wmd-iraq/


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You mean these?
> 
> *No, There Are Still No WMDs In Iraq*
> 
> ...


Thanks for posting, PP. Very interesting


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Actually, the move went very well. I was there to help along with many of their friends.
> No matter the reason? What's your point, solo?


People move for all reasons, new jobs, downsizing, to be closer to family or just because they want a change. What's your problem, bratty?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Probably used an ultra powerful zoom lens.


Good one. Either that or wore a hard hat.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Obama could have cut off ISIS's supply lines, crippling them. He has drones and knows how to use them., causing our military no harm. Then again you must have believed Obama when he said over and over that Al Quaeda is decimated and on the run. Tell that to the surviving family members after ISIS "visited" their cities. It will be such a comfort.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The world is watching Obama and listening to his words and how he uses them on his own countrymen/women. It's no wonder he has lost respect from the world's leaders. There are also a handful that behave in a similar manner who are cheering Obama on.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> People move for all reasons, new jobs, downsizing, to be closer to family or just because they want a change. What's your problem, bratty?


Yes they do. After KPG's remark, I just figured you were following suit.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thinking about what you wrote, it is quite possible the fact that you and your brother cared about her well being may have been the spark that moved her life in a more positive direction. Sometimes just having one or two people see you as a person and not a problem is all it takes to help you hold on.


I'm ntsure we were thespark tat got her back on trak. She ad to give up her first cild and then her second one. I hink losing her second child really


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's funny. Last time I looked, he is very well respected globally.
> More propaganda from the right, solo?


that's only the WH propaganda talking. Now go read the real opinions.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> I've been really busy with a young woman who's 33 and who my brother and I have known since she was about 18 months old. She ended up as a very troubled person. Drug addiction, alcoholism and too many things to list here. We looked for her periodically and finally found her a couple of weeks ago on Facebook after a ten year gap in our relationship.
> 
> My brother and I were like an aunt and uncle to her and her two sisters. 12 years ago she was pregnant and her parents wouldn't help out with getting the things she'd need when the baby was born. My brother and I stepped up and made sure she had everything for the baby from a crib down to a lot of onsies. Her parents were outraged by what we did. They confused and still confuse caring, loving and being concerned about their daughter as APPROVAL of what she was doing. We didn't approve one bit about how she was conducting her life. We and they parted company and we highly doubt we will ever speak to them again.
> 
> ...


You told us about her before. Wow. That's putting your money - or your time and effort - where your mouth is. It's a really good thing to be doing.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> that's only the WH propaganda talking. Now go read the real opinions.


I have read several polls and news articles from many countries on the subject. You are *wrong* once again!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Obama didn't do it for the Republicans. Get real.


Whom he did it for is beside the point. The Repubs wanted it; it was done; just accept it and shut up about it.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because in the ultra negative world of solowey, it couldn't have been taken any other way.


Do you even know what was being referred to? Or are you just being ultra obnoxious because you are back on KP and think you are just so cute and funny? Why not attempt to act the at least the age of that child in your avatar.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Do you even know what was being referred to? Or are you just being ultra obnoxious because you are back on KP and think you are just so cute and funny? Why not attempt to act the at least the age of that child in your avatar.


Yes, I do know what was being referred to. I could say the same to you, but it will fall upon deaf ears so I won't waste my time.
I am cute and funny. gets under your skin, doesn't it?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> that's only the WH propaganda talking. Now go read the real opinions.


By "real opinions" are you referring to right wing propaganda? Now that is really something valid.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Thanks for posting, PP. Very interesting


It's a pity Laugh-In is gone. They'd have so much fun these days.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> By "real opinions" are you referring to right wing propaganda? Now that is really something valid.


She thinks that the WH is the propaganda machine, Marilyn. 
Her eyes are wide open but she remains blind to reality.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's a pity Laugh-In is gone. They'd have so much fun these days.


I loved that show. It is hard to pick a favorite from that cast. Ruth Buzzy is right up there, though.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Whom he did it for is beside the point. The Repubs wanted it; it was done; just accept it and shut up about it.


Good luck with that, PP


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Do you even know what was being referred to? Or are you just being ultra obnoxious because you are back on KP and think you are just so cute and funny? Why not attempt to act the at least the age of that child in your avatar.


"Making fun of avatars? How low can you get" - soloweygirl.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thinking about what you wrote, it is quite possible the fact that you and your brother cared about her well being may have been the spark that moved her life in a more positive direction. Sometimes just having one or two people see you as a person and not a problem is all it takes to help you hold on.


I'm not sure we were the spark that got her back on track. She had to give up her first child in 2004 and then her second in 2010. I think losing her second child really got her thinking about making some major changes in her life. Once upon a time we were very good influences on her and the great thing about finding her again means we get a second chance to be good influences.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Do you even know what was being referred to? Or are you just being ultra obnoxious because you are back on KP and think you are just so cute and funny? Why not attempt to act the at least the age of that child in your avatar.


Oh dour one, Bratty is cute and funny.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> It's a pity Laugh-In is gone. They'd have so much fun these days.


They would really sock it to 'em!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> And this sounds like..............


B.S.????


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I loved that show. It is hard to pick a favorite from that cast. Ruth Buzzy is right up there, though.


She and Arte Johnson made a great pair. And didn't Lily Tomlin start there?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> They would really sock it to 'em!


They'd point the fickle finger of fate at the Tea Party.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


>


Love this one Purl-- it says so eloquently what our reaction is!! yeah!!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay, it's time I gave you credit for cleverness. Unlike too many others, you never just respond with "LIAR" or some convoluted insult. I may disagree with the content, but at least you have fun with the words.


You are right, it IS about time!

:thumbup:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> They'd point the fickle finger of fate at the Tea Party.


Which finger was that?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> "Making fun of avatars? How low can you get" - soloweygirl.


 I am going to stick by Mark Twain where she is concerned, PP.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> yeah I am fond of Gers also. Decent fellow.


Altogether now:

For she's a jolly good fellow
For she's a jolly good fellow
For she's a jolly good fellow
That nobody _(except maybe Lisa in any one of her hundred manifestations but she'd still be mistaken)_ can deny!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> A cute little redhead beats a garbage truck anyday.


And that's the truth!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You told us about her before. Wow. That's putting your money - or your time and effort - where your mouth is. It's a really good thing to be doing.


I applaud you!!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> She and Arte Johnson made a great pair. And didn't Lily Tomlin start there?


Yes, she was a little girl and the telephone operator.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I loved that show. It is hard to pick a favorite from that cast. Ruth Buzzy is right up there, though.


You got it: my favorite couple, he talking dirty to her, she hitting him on the head with her pocketbook.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Which finger was that?


If you don't know, I'm not going to ruin you by telling you.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> A cute little redhead beats a garbage truck any day.


I dunno about that Brat...it may not seem like a big deal to you but in certain instances a swollen tongue can be an indicator of a deadly condition. Yours has been hanging out there picking up all kinds of who knows what for who knows how long. You might want to reel it in!

:thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Altogether now:
> 
> For she's a jolly good fellow
> For she's a jolly good fellow
> ...


I love how that scans.

:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> And that's the truth!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, she was a little girl and the telephone operator.


Ernestine, who would keep calling Gore Vidal "Mr. Veedle."


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Love this one Purl-- it says so eloquently what our reaction is!! yeah!!


Help yourself. You probably will, anyway. You're right, I've created a monster, and it's you!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I dunno about that Brat...it may not seem like a big deal to you but in certain instances a swollen tongue can be an indicator of a deadly condition. Yours has been hanging out there picking up all kinds of who knows what for who knows how long. You might want to reel it in!
> 
> :thumbup:


If it's the vicinity of the garbage truck she should. Wouldn't want to catch flies with it.

I love that you give yourself a thumbs up. Are you afraid you won't get one otherwise?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I dunno about that Brat...it may not seem like a big deal to you but in certain instances a swollen tongue can be an indicator of a deadly condition. Yours has been hanging out there picking up all kinds of who knows what for who knows how long. You might want to reel it in!
> 
> :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Purl! I can't help myself!! I just see more and more places where there is a perfect emoticon to express my feelings!!! What am I to do except keep on truckin' and keep on posting them. Sooo much fun!!!!! I will thank you forever!!!!!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If it's the vicinity of the garbage truck she should. Wouldn't want to catch flies with it.
> 
> I love that you give yourself a thumbs up. Are you afraid you won't get one otherwise?


PP...you should know by now that I'm not afraid of anything...especially not your opinion of me!

:lol: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Purl! I can't help myself!! I just see more and more places where there is a perfect emoticon to express my feelings!!! What am I to do except keep on truckin' and keep on posting them. Sooo much fun!!!!! I will thank you forever!!!!!


The one you use here is one of my favorites, maybe my absolute favorite. I hope these don't keep you from doing your artwork.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> PP...you should know by now that I'm not afraid of anything...especially not your opinion of me!
> 
> :lol: :thumbup:


Touche! (Couldn't get the accent to work.)


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I dunno about that Brat...it may not seem like a big deal to you but in certain instances a swollen tongue can be an indicator of a deadly condition. Yours has been hanging out there picking up all kinds of who knows what for who knows how long. You might want to reel it in!
> 
> :thumbup:


Gerslay is speaking from experience, I see.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Gerslay is speaking from experience, I see.


C'mon...you can do better than that!

:thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> C'mon...you can do better than that!
> 
> :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


It would be a complete waste of time to put any more energy into it.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> that's only the WH propaganda talking. Now go read the real opinions.


Like yours? You don't have opinions, at least informed ones.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> It would be a complete waste of time to put any more energy into it.


Awww...Tongue sticking to the roof of your mouth?

:XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> I loved that show. It is hard to pick a favorite from that cast. Ruth Buzzy is right up there, though.


Ruth Buzzi is from a town by here. Her family ran a gravestone company, Buzzi Memorials. When her mom was alive, she'd come by the store I worked in and chat. Very nice lady.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Awww...Tongue sticking to the roof of your mouth?
> 
> :XD: :XD: :XD:


Keep trying, Gerslay.Maybe someone will eventually think you are funny.
Try some Immodium for that mouth problem of yours.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Keep trying, Gerslay.Maybe someone will eventually think you are funny.
> Try some Immodium for that mouth problem of yours.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Ernestine, who would keep calling Gore Vidal "Mr. Veedle."


Funny! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So you believe that Kermit Gosnell was a figment of the imagination? So are the undercover videos of Planned Parent personnel telling teens how to have deviant sex are a figment of the imagination? In most states, it is against the law for a child under the age of 18 to have sex. I would think they could be charged with aiding the delinquency of a minor.
> 
> So if you didn't see it happen it must be a false report. Get real!


I don't believe Gosnell had any connection to Planned Parenthood or any legally performed abortion service providers. Undercover videos? How do we know if they're for real? NOBODY condones Gosnell.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Only that the Republicans wanted to do it legally. To pass a law to delay both the personal and employer mandate a year. Obama refused. He just did it. Unconstitutionally, of course.


He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Don't speak to me about the legality of what repubs do. Shut down the government? Sue the president? Don't pass one good piece of legislation for the good of the country? In fact, they haven't done anything for the good of the country, but my taxpayer dollar is going to pay the salary of those buffoons! They have been remiss in their responsibilities ever since Obama took office.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Responsible??? That's a joke!


Just because you are opposed to abortion does not make Planned Parenthood irresponsible. Don't forget---they're operating under the law of the land even if you disagree with the law.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you know, positively, that no one was referred to Gosnell by Planned Parenthood?


Do you?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you know, positively, that no one was referred to Gosnell by Planned Parenthood?


Do you know positively that they were?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If they were operating under the law they would report *every* under age child that they suspected of being sexually abused, especially if she had an abortion. How can they perform any medical procedure on a minor without parental permission? A school cannot give a minor an aspirin without parental permission.


What makes you think that the parents aren't the ones who are forcing her to have an abortion?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Funny! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


And Ernestine who called Nixon "Mr.Millhouse."
She was very, very funny


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> If they were operating under the law they would report *every* under age child that they suspected of being sexually abused, especially if she had an abortion. How can they perform any medical procedure on a minor without parental permission? A school cannot give a minor an aspirin without parental permission.


FYI...according to the court documents, the girl had 2 abortions. And they were performed at the Cleveland Surgi-Clinic - her mother signed the papers.

Under Ohio's statute governing the regulation of minor access to abortions, unemancipated, unmarried pregnant minors are required to first notify a parent or guardian before having an abortion. If the minor wishes to have the abortion without the required notification, she may request the issuance of a judicial waiver of the notification requirement. The waiver authorizes her to consent to the performance of an abortion. Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2151.85. To obtain a judicial bypass, the juvenile court must find by clear and convincing evidence that the minor is mature enough to make the decision on her own, or that notifying a parent is not in her best interests. The statute does not define "maturity" or "best interests." Anyone who performs an abortion on a minor who has neither notified a parent nor obtained a waiver of the notification requirement is subject to civil and criminal penalties under Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2919.12. The United States Supreme Court upheld the statute in its entirety in a previous facial challenge. Ohio v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, 497 U.S. 502, 110 S.Ct. 2972, 111 L.Ed.2d 405 (1990) ("Akron II").


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So you believe that Kermit Gosnell was a figment of the imagination? So are the undercover videos of Planned Parent personnel telling teens how to have deviant sex are a figment of the imagination? In most states, it is against the law for a child under the age of 18 to have sex. I would think they could be charged with aiding the delinquency of a minor.
> 
> So if you didn't see it happen it must be a false report. Get real!


You said that, not me.

Gosnell has nothing to do with the other. Maybe they are a figment of the imagination, but they don't have to be. The right has a tendency to make fake videos of organizations they would like to see destroyed. That was proved about ACORN several times, but too late to save it.

The only reports I could find on Google were by the sites you're always copying from. I think if not a single other news source mentions them, they're not real. On the other hand, Planned Parenthood can't do crazy shtocko like you describe and still apply for any kind of funding.

You apparently will believe anything but the truth.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

GWPlver said:


> FYI...according to the court documents, the girl had 2 abortions. And they were performed at the Cleveland Surgi-Clinic - her mother signed the papers.
> 
> Under Ohio's statute governing the regulation of minor access to abortions, unemancipated, unmarried pregnant minors are required to first notify a parent or guardian before having an abortion. If the minor wishes to have the abortion without the required notification, she may request the issuance of a judicial waiver of the notification requirement. The waiver authorizes her to consent to the performance of an abortion. Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2151.85. To obtain a judicial bypass, the juvenile court must find by clear and convincing evidence that the minor is mature enough to make the decision on her own, or that notifying a parent is not in her best interests. The statute does not define "maturity" or "best interests." Anyone who performs an abortion on a minor who has neither notified a parent nor obtained a waiver of the notification requirement is subject to civil and criminal penalties under Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2919.12. The United States Supreme Court upheld the statute in its entirety in a previous facial challenge. Ohio v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, 497 U.S. 502, 110 S.Ct. 2972, 111 L.Ed.2d 405 (1990) ("Akron II").


A bit of reality. Thank you.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

GW!!!! Nice to see you. Thanks for sharing the truth about this matter.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> So you believe that Kermit Gosnell was a figment of the imagination? So are the undercover videos of Planned Parent personnel telling teens how to have deviant sex are a figment of the imagination? In most states, it is against the law for a child under the age of 18 to have sex. I would think they could be charged with aiding the delinquency of a minor.
> 
> So if you didn't see it happen it must be a false report. Get real!


What is deviant sex? What did I miss?


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Only that the Republicans wanted to do it legally. To pass a law to delay both the personal and employer mandate a year. Obama refused. He just did it. Unconstitutionally, of course.


Such nonsense. Repugs just want to throw whatever monkey wrenches into whatever Obama wants to accomplish.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Such nonsense. Repugs just want to throw whatever monkey wrenches into whatever Obama wants to accomplish.


How so?

The law was passed and it should have been followed as written, PERIOD. If it needed to be amended then it should have been done through Congress as stated by the Constitution.

Wonder how you would react if a president changed Roe V Wade to make getting an abortion more difficult Same principle, different law


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How so?
> 
> The law was passed and it should have been followed as written, PERIOD. If it needed to be amended then it should have been done through Congress as stated by the Constitution.
> 
> Wonder how you would react if a president changed Roe V Wade to make getting an abortion more difficult Same principle, different law


Except he didn't make anything more difficult, he made it easier. If you think the most important thing going on right now is to carp on that point, go for it. The zombies in the House have decimated the government---and they're actually proud of what they're doing because they're anti-government. I always wonder why people who hate the federal government want to run for public office. I guess it's for the pay check. And now they're going on vacation!


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The world is watching Obama and listening to his words and how he uses them on his own countrymen/women. It's no wonder he has lost respect from the world's leaders. There are also a handful that behave in a similar manner who are cheering Obama on.


soloweygirl
I guess you are in a rut to express yourself and spit on everyone who speaks more eloquently. As to "lost respect ......" you have no clue what you are speaking about. Our President is still in very good standing around the World. I know that bugs the hell out of you, but you just have to live with it. Bless you Dear.
Our behavior is quite good but your kind have a wonderful way to awaken the worst in us, which of course at times we the bring to light.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

GWPlver said:


> FYI...according to the court documents, the girl had 2 abortions. And they were performed at the Cleveland Surgi-Clinic - her mother signed the papers.
> 
> Under Ohio's statute governing the regulation of minor access to abortions, unemancipated, unmarried pregnant minors are required to first notify a parent or guardian before having an abortion. If the minor wishes to have the abortion without the required notification, she may request the issuance of a judicial waiver of the notification requirement. The waiver authorizes her to consent to the performance of an abortion. Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2151.85. To obtain a judicial bypass, the juvenile court must find by clear and convincing evidence that the minor is mature enough to make the decision on her own, or that notifying a parent is not in her best interests. The statute does not define "maturity" or "best interests." Anyone who performs an abortion on a minor who has neither notified a parent nor obtained a waiver of the notification requirement is subject to civil and criminal penalties under Ohio Rev.Code Ann. Sec. 2919.12. The United States Supreme Court upheld the statute in its entirety in a previous facial challenge. Ohio v. Akron Center for Reproductive Health, 497 U.S. 502, 110 S.Ct. 2972, 111 L.Ed.2d 405 (1990) ("Akron II").


Thanks for posting this! I know at least some states either require one parent's (sometimes both, even if a parent is absent) or 2 doctor's signature before considering letting the minor sign for herself.

Jeoysomma has a habit of taking things out of context and choosing the statements that she agrees to, and presents them as fact; the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Or rather I should say, the nuts who feed her this information do.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> Such nonsense. Repugs just want to throw whatever monkey wrenches into whatever Obama wants to accomplish.


Just a thought: maybe Obama should declare "free money for all corporations and the upper 1%! Move all American jobs overseas!"

What do you think they'd say?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> FYI: it was the one about Planned Parenthood not being sanctioned for failure to report sexual abuse of minor. (as required by law). What in the world, did you think I was addressing?


joeysomma
the information you spread about Planned Parenthood is bogus.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> So you believe that Kermit Gosnell was a figment of the imagination? So are the undercover videos of Planned Parent personnel telling teens how to have deviant sex are a figment of the imagination? In most states, it is against the law for a child under the age of 18 to have sex. I would think they could be charged with aiding the delinquency of a minor.
> 
> So if you didn't see it happen it must be a false report. Get real!


joeysomma
Y E S.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Do you know, positively, that no one was referred to Gosnell by Planned Parenthood?


Do you know, positively, that anyone was referred to Gosnell by Planned Parenthood? PROOF positive?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> the information you spread about Planned Parenthood is bogus.


An organization created for women, by women wouldn't report a rape?
Please!! Just because someone publishes this drek does not make it true.
The sad part is you eat it up like it's gospel.
Doesn't seem like the mother of this purported "rape victim" was responsible at all if she didn't report the rape herself. 
Good sob story, but not very believable.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Just a thought: maybe Obama should declare "free money for all corporations and the upper 1%! Move all American jobs overseas!"
> 
> What do you think they'd say?


Natureschampion
now there is a thought that could result in finally a good outcome for us Suckers, since the Repugs have turned everything 180 degrees.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Except he didn't make anything more difficult, he made it easier. If you think the most important thing going on right now is to carp on that point, go for it. The zombies in the House have decimated the government---and they're actually proud of what they're doing because they're anti-government. I always wonder why people who hate the federal government want to run for public office. I guess it's for the pay check. And now they're going on vacation!


Where else would do nothing slugs like that score a fat pension for life?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> What is deviant sex? What did I miss?


Doing it with your clothes off, SQ, and enjoying it!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

SQM said:


> What is deviant sex? What did I miss?


DP


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> now there is a thought that could result in finally a good outcome for us Suckers, since the Repugs have turned everything 180 degrees.


Thaaaaats what I was thinking. We should write to our Commander in Chief and suggest it. Couldn't hurt, right? What's the worst that could happen, they agree and things would just remain the way they are?

They are foolish to think that this one man has all the power they think he does. They think WE idolize him; THEY think he's G-D.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Where else would do nothing slugs like that score a fat pension for life?


Not to mention CONTROL.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> Doing it with your clothes off, SQ, and enjoying it!


You forgot "and anything that is not missionary style."


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Except he didn't make anything more difficult, he made it easier. If you think the most important thing going on right now is to carp on that point, go for it. The zombies in the House have decimated the government---and they're actually proud of what they're doing because they're anti-government. I always wonder why people who hate the federal government want to run for public office. I guess it's for the pay check. And now they're going on vacation!


Funny how they are anti-government, but cling to the constitution, Hmmm.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> You forgot "and anything that is not missionary style."


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thaaaaats what I was thinking. We should write to our Commander in Chief and suggest it. Couldn't hurt, right? What's the worst that could happen, they agree and things would just remain the way they are?
> 
> They are foolish to think that this one man has all the power they think he does. They think WE idolize him; THEY think he's G-D.


Well, let us see what the Borowitz Report has to say about the power grabbing going on.

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)Republicans who were angered to learn on Wednesday that the former I.R.S. official Lois Lerner had referred to them as crazies and assholes responded later in the day by voting to sue the President of the United States. (Marilyn's note: They did not sue Lois Lerner for slander, did they? Hmmm)

Calling us crazy assholes is insulting, derogatory, and beneath contempt, House Speaker John Boehner told reporters. And now if youll excuse me, ladies and gentlemen, I have to go sue Obama.

Determined to burnish their reputation as extremely sane people who are not assholes at all, House Republicans in their lawsuit accuse the President of coldly and arrogantly seizing power granted to him by the United States Constitution.

The lawsuit alleges that having signed 181 executive orders to date, Barack Obama seems intent on chasing the records of such notorious renegades as Dwight Eisenhower (484) and Theodore Roosevelt (1,081).


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Doing it with your clothes off, SQ, and enjoying it!


Spew alert, BP. Don't forget, lights on!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Funny how they are anti-government, but cling to the constitution, Hmmm.


Only when it benefits them, too.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Well, let us see what the Borowitz Report has to say about the power grabbing going on.
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)Republicans who were angered to learn on Wednesday that the former I.R.S. official Lois Lerner had referred to them as crazies and assholes responded later in the day by voting to sue the President of the United States. (Marilyn's note: They did not sue Lois Lerner for slander, did they? Hmmm)
> 
> ...


Wow, was Boehner crying again as he commented?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> And said head held high as it deserves to be.


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Spew alert, BP. Don't forget, lights on!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Only when it benefits them, too.


It just bumfuzzles me, maysmom!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> yeah I am fond of Gers also. Decent fellow.


Me too.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> Spew alert, BP. Don't forget, lights on!


 :lol: :lol: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Well, let us see what the Borowitz Report has to say about the power grabbing going on.
> 
> WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)Republicans who were angered to learn on Wednesday that the former I.R.S. official Lois Lerner had referred to them as crazies and assholes responded later in the day by voting to sue the President of the United States. (Marilyn's note: They did not sue Lois Lerner for slander, did they? Hmmm)
> 
> ...


Wooooowwwwww. :shock: :shock: :shock: Really...? :?: :?: :?:

They couldn't sue her for slander. It's only slander if it's not true.

Bazinga!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

BrattyPatty said:


> It just bumfuzzles me, maysmom!


You took the words right out of my mouth.

Btw, how did you get a picture of me to use as your avatar?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Thank you Nature, for your perspective. Very helpful. Let's hope, that by what ever means, cooler heads will prevail in the immediate future.


Amen to that.

:thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> How so?
> 
> The law was passed and it should have been followed as written, PERIOD. If it needed to be amended then it should have been done through Congress as stated by the Constitution.
> 
> Wonder how you would react if a president changed Roe V Wade to make getting an abortion more difficult Same principle, different law


But plenty of state legislators have done exactly that, despite the fact that abortion is legal in the entire country.

Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have as much power as the legislature of a state?


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> You took the words right out of my mouth.
> 
> Btw, how did you get a picture of me to use as your avatar?


LOL!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Does a reputable organization say following the law is not worth the hassle?
> 
> Planned Parenthood believes reporting rape 'isn't worth the hassle'
> 
> ...


_
The Washington Times was created by the right wing and often makes things up. Including the supposed quote from Planned Parenthood.

It's one thing to believe strongly that they shouldn't perform abortions. It's another to try to stop them from doing the other 97% of their work. And to attribute nonsense quotes to them is immoral._


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Doing it with your clothes off, SQ, and enjoying it!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thaaaaats what I was thinking. We should write to our Commander in Chief and suggest it. Couldn't hurt, right? What's the worst that could happen, they agree and things would just remain the way they are?
> 
> They are foolish to think that this one man has all the power they think he does. They think WE idolize him; THEY think he's G-D.


Except for the ones who think he's the Antichrist, who's supposed to be powerful also.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

BrattyPatty said:


> Wow, was Boehner crying again as he commented?


Patty, that was hilarious!


----------



## BrattyPatty (May 2, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Patty, that was hilarious!


Can't you just see it, Purl?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

maysmom said:


> Spew alert, BP. Don't forget, lights on!


maysmom
while wearing Sun Glasses. That mirror on the ceiling is blinding.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> maysmom
> while wearing Sun Glasses. That mirror on the ceiling is blinding.


ooh, snap!

(Dame, I left this one for you :wink: )


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Folks
listening to all of the nonsense and idiocy coming from the Repugs, I have to believe that they are doing that with great purpose, actually not only to besmear President Obama but also to rid themselves of the Tea Party Nuts. How else can they shed them? I think they figure that they are better off to lose in the short run than to be burdened by these Idiots for many years to come. Let the People see how nuts they are, take a licking now and then pick up from there. And Ted Cruz is giving them tons of reasons to take this route.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> The Washington Times was created by the right wing and often makes things up. Including the supposed quote from Planned Parenthood.
> 
> It's one thing to believe strongly that they shouldn't perform abortions. It's another to try to stop them from doing the other 97% of their work. And to attribute nonsense quotes to them is immoral.


Poor Purl
you can be assured that Planned Parenthood is very diligent in reporting rape and abuse. Their motto is " better safe than sorry" when they think something terrible is happening to an individual. They do not take chances on atrocities being repeated and do everything in their power to make reports. It is a tough spot they are in. Their Counselors are Masters in sniffing out abuse.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> And lying .


joeysomma
that is left to you folks. Talk to those who have been prosecuted because of reporting by PP. They wish PP would be behaving as you are lying they are.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Except for the ones who think he's the Antichrist, who's supposed to be powerful also.


Poor Purl
President Obama sure gets names having to do with Religion, Messiah, Antichrist...........................


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Pro-Abortion Libs Dumping Pro-Choice Label to . Activists talk mainly of womens health and economic practices. [/I]
> 
> joeysomma
> Now I lay me down to sleep. This stuff is a good sleep aid.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Will you be dreaming of the baby-murdering industry?


joeysomma
I rarely dream and when, they are like pleasant movies which sometimes I wish would not end so quickly.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> I love your vivid descriptions. Keep them coming.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> ...and you'll end up like Karl Rove, useless.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MaidInBedlam said:


> Designer1234 wrote:
> Why didn't one of your group do something to protect her?
> You care so much for children.
> That is right until they are born then they can be forgotten, Come on!!!
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: Bravo Maid.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Solo will believe anything slanted right.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Best of luck to all. You're a good person to have as support.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I've been really busy with a young woman who's 33 and who my brother and I have known since she was about 18 months old. She ended up as a very troubled person. Drug addiction, alcoholism and too many things to list here. We looked for her periodically and finally found her a couple of weeks ago on Facebook after a ten year gap in our relationship.
> 
> My brother and I were like an aunt and uncle to her and her two sisters. 12 years ago she was pregnant and her parents wouldn't help out with getting the things she'd need when the baby was born. My brother and I stepped up and made sure she had everything for the baby from a crib down to a lot of onsies. Her parents were outraged by what we did. They confused and still confuse caring, loving and being concerned about their daughter as APPROVAL of what she was doing. We didn't approve one bit about how she was conducting her life. We and they parted company and we highly doubt we will ever speak to them again.
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She makes no attempt to understand, just rants nonsense. Don't bother with her.



Natureschampion said:


> When did I ever say success is a bad thing? Anyone who reaches a goal that they set for themselves is a success.
> 
> Again, you completely missed my point.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put!



maysmom said:


> NC, nothing you can say to any of the RWNs here will ever get a civilized, intelligent answer unless you are agreeing with them.
> 
> :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Thinking about what you wrote, it is quite possible the fact that you and your brother cared about her well being may have been the spark that moved her life in a more positive direction. Sometimes just having one or two people see you as a person and not a problem is all it takes to help you hold on.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Actually, the move went very well. I was there to help along with many of their friends.
> No matter the reason? What's your point, solo?


Just trying to prove how nosy she is about things that are none of her concern?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> I have read several polls and news articles from many countries on the subject. You are *wrong* once again!


She is consistent.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Yes, I do know what was being referred to. I could say the same to you, but it will fall upon deaf ears so I won't waste my time.
> I am cute and funny. gets under your skin, doesn't it?


Patty, you are clever, cute, funny, and more adjectives galore. They are jealous....and I love it when they show it. Go girl.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> It's a pity Laugh-In is gone. They'd have so much fun these days.


The RWN's provide so much comedic material.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> She thinks that the WH is the propaganda machine, Marilyn.
> Her eyes are wide open but she remains blind to reality.


I love it when she spouts nonsense.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She's fortunate.



MaidInBedlam said:


> I'm not sure we were the spark that got her back on track. She had to give up her first child in 2004 and then her second in 2010. I think losing her second child really got her thinking about making some major changes in her life. Once upon a time we were very good influences on her and the great thing about finding her again means we get a second chance to be good influences.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> She and Arte Johnson made a great pair. And didn't Lily Tomlin start there?


Edith Ann. I love Lily.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> They'd point the fickle finger of fate at the Tea Party.


 :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Which finger was that?


The tall one in the middle.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> And that's the truth!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I love seeing your emoticoms. Yipppeeee! Keep em coming.



Designer1234 said:


> Purl! I can't help myself!! I just see more and more places where there is a perfect emoticon to express my feelings!!! What am I to do except keep on truckin' and keep on posting them. Sooo much fun!!!!! I will thank you forever!!!!!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> PP...you should know by now that I'm not afraid of anything...especially not your opinion of me!
> 
> :lol: :thumbup:


How about the garbage truck? Aren't you scared they'll take you for a ride?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Hear, hear.



cookiequeen said:


> He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Don't speak to me about the legality of what repubs do. Shut down the government? Sue the president? Don't pass one good piece of legislation for the good of the country? In fact, they haven't done anything for the good of the country, but my taxpayer dollar is going to pay the salary of those buffoons! They have been remiss in their responsibilities ever since Obama took office.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put, Cookie.



cookiequeen said:


> Just because you are opposed to abortion does not make Planned Parenthood irresponsible. Don't forget---they're operating under the law of the land even if you disagree with the law.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

She'll just make something up, as usual.



cookiequeen said:


> Do you?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Doing it with your clothes off, SQ, and enjoying it!


:XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks but I'm slow tonight. You're it.



Natureschampion said:


> ooh, snap!
> 
> (Dame, I left this one for you :wink: )


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think the moderate faction of the Republican Party has come to detest the Tea Party.



Huckleberry said:


> Folks
> listening to all of the nonsense and idiocy coming from the Repugs, I have to believe that they are doing that with great purpose, actually not only to besmear President Obama but also to rid themselves of the Tea Party Nuts. How else can they shed them? I think they figure that they are better off to lose in the short run than to be burdened by these Idiots for many years to come. Let the People see how nuts they are, take a licking now and then pick up from there. And Ted Cruz is giving them tons of reasons to take this route.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> you can be assured that Planned Parenthood is very diligent in reporting rape and abuse. Their motto is " better safe than sorry" when they think something terrible is happening to an individual. They do not take chances on atrocities being repeated and do everything in their power to make reports. It is a tough spot they are in. Their Counselors are Masters in sniffing out abuse.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> But plenty of state legislators have done exactly that, despite the fact that abortion is legal in the entire country.
> 
> Shouldn't the President of the United States of America have as much power as the legislature of a state?


If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration. He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration. He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


I seriously believe that if Mother Theresa was POTUS you would have something to complain about.

As I said in an earlier post, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America. You, on the other hand, are a disgruntled US citizen.

There is no comparison, there is no contest. Move on.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


Your attempt at cryptic is lame. Cease and desist.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Even not very smart people generally recognize that the Articles and Amerndments of the US Constitution concern action (or the constraining of action) on the part of the government not a respons on an international website. 


joeysomma said:


> I *DO* have Freedom of Speech. I thought a SMART person, such as yourself, knew that. But I could be wrong.,


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


And the Republicans like you all, are doing everything they can to make sure he will fail. Even if you drag your country down doing it. Then blame him - weird indeed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> As I said in an earlier post, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America. You, on the other hand, are a disgruntled US citizen.
> 
> There is no comparison, there is no contest. Move on.


How fun! The POTUS IS the POTUS, Wombat? Wow, you thought those on this thread didn't know that already? I certainly hope you thought this through.

You're right and that there is no contest. It is what it is.

Now, why don't you explain and enlighten USA citizens on what laws and Constitutional Oaths Barack Hussein Obama has broken and ignored during his terms?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


... and me, the American Citizen!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I *DO* have Freedom of Speech. I thought a SMART person, such as yourself, knew that. But I could be wrong.,


She doesn't know the job of the POTUS anymore than the present POTUS does.

I take that back, actually, Obama does know, he just doesn't do it while breaking the laws of the land and those he swore (twice) to uphold.

Some Constitutional Lawyer, huh? No wonder he had his academic records expunged.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Purl! I can't help myself!! I just see more and more places where there is a perfect emoticon to express my feelings!!! What am I to do except keep on truckin' and keep on posting them. Sooo much fun!!!!! I will thank you forever!!!!!


I know that you're having a lot of fun with your new skill at inserting animated emoticons, but I wonder if you realize that there's an unwritten rule about these silly emoticons and mini-skirts and that is that there comes an age when neither of them are becoming to a mature woman!

Just sayin!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I know that you're having a lot of fun with your new skill at inserting animated emoticons, but I wonder if you realize that there's an unwritten rule about these silly emoticons and mini-skirts and that is that there comes an age when neither of them are becoming to a mature woman!
> 
> Just sayin!


Glad you enjoy them. They help me keep my cool and help me stay out of Cat fights which don't do my bp any good. Oh, and I am older than most on these threads and have managed to keep my wits about me - I learned to deal with growing old, some time ago. I enjoy doing the emoticons. Especially when I am reading some of the posts from 'special people'.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> Glad you enjoy them. They help me keep my cool and help me stay out of Cat fights which don't do my bp any good.


I'm glad you're having fun with them, but do you not agree about wearing mini-skirts? Post-menopausal women (and I am one) just don't have the panache to pull it off!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I'm glad you're having fun with them, but do you not agree about wearing mini-skirts? Post-menopausal women (and I am one) just don't have the panache to pull it off!


Panache????? Don't think so. It is a matter of wrinkly knees.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I'm glad you're having fun with them, but do you not agree about wearing mini-skirts? Post-menopausal women (and I am one) just don't have the panache to pull it off!


It has been so long since I have even 'thought' of wearing a mini skirt- I haven't given the problem much thought. \ ;-)

Some of the 'short short outfits today are way shorter than the mini skirts I remember. A bit much I think. (That is where I am true to my age. I like to see women look a bit more classy).

I am having fun with the emoticons. It lightens up the nastiness. We can all use a bit of that. At least the majority of us might find them easier to look at than some of the posts. I do.

By the way:Just a thought - NB - is turning into a very pleasant thread. It is a shame that those who dislike 'conversation' between the two sides, refuse to come. You won't lose 'face ' if you do. It shows us that we are all real people and all the nastiness is left here, and in other threads.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. You dislike President Obama. I don't. I think he's a good man with an impossible job....due mainly to people like you.



lovethelake said:


> If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration. He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

IMHO they might give Mother Theresa a break now and then. President Barack Obama? Never. So I say use what powers you can and let em gripe.



Wombatnomore said:


> I seriously believe that if Mother Theresa was POTUS you would have something to complain about.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America. You, on the other hand, are a disgruntled US citizen.
> 
> There is no comparison, there is no contest. Move on.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, he does. So does this do-nothing Congress. I see no point. But I guess you do. Do you see spaceships too?



joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are wrong IMO.

The problem is we have to listen unless we identify your cut & paste signature and ignore you right away.

I truly wish you would tell us why you are so fixated on abortion.



joeysomma said:


> I *DO* have Freedom of Speech. I thought a SMART person, such as yourself, knew that. But I could be wrong.,


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Even not very smart people generally recognize that the Articles and Amerndments of the US Constitution concern action (or the constraining of action) on the part of the government not a respons on an international website.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Joey informed us the President....President Barack Obama...works for her. Maybe you should go talk to her?



knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! The POTUS IS the POTUS, Wombat? Wow, you thought those on this thread didn't know that already? I certainly hope you thought this through.
> 
> You're right and that there is no contest. It is what it is.
> 
> Now, why don't you explain and enlighten USA citizens on what laws and Constitutional Oaths Barack Hussein Obama has broken and ignored during his terms?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When will you be publishing your academic records from decades ago, Ms. American Citizen?



knitpresentgifts said:


> She doesn't know the job of the POTUS anymore than the present POTUS does.
> 
> I take that back, actually, Obama does know, he just doesn't do it while breaking the laws of the land and those he swore (twice) to uphold.
> 
> Some Constitutional Lawyer, huh? No wonder he had his academic records expunged.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

War on women? war on working people?

Look at this fruit loop.

http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/331c37d5f5f24b2892a95d34954fe768/CT--Connecticut-Governor-Foley

SPRAGUE, Connecticut  Republican gubernatorial candidate Tom Foley was upstaged at his own news conference Tuesday as a first selectwoman and union leaders decried his attempts to link the planned closure of a paperboard factory to what he called Democratic Gov. Dannel P. Malloy's failed economic policies.

Much of Foley's news conference, held near the entrance to Fusion Paperboard in Sprague, was dominated by a sometimes-heated exchange with Sprague First Selectman Cathy Osten and several workers from the plant, including two leaders of the union. Osten and the workers contend Fusion, owned by a private equity firm, has been making money and the decision to close in 60 days had nothing to do with Connecticut's economic policies.

But Foley, a former businessman from Greenwich who once owned a textile company in Georgia, insisted that anti-business state policies and high energy costs were the reason the company is closing, and he blamed Malloy and Osten for not doing more to save the plant's 145 jobs. He said the plant would have stayed open if it had been making money for its owners.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Just sayin your opinion, it's true. As are everyone else. Keep the judgements to your self.

Silly? Unbecoming to 'mature' woman? Learn to identify and avoid. That's my judgement of the day.



Gerslay said:


> I know that you're having a lot of fun with your new skill at inserting animated emoticons, but I wonder if you realize that there's an unwritten rule about these silly emoticons and mini-skirts and that is that there comes an age when neither of them are becoming to a mature woman!
> 
> Just sayin!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Love your emoticons. They tell so much. Thank you.



Designer1234 said:


> Glad you enjoy them. They help me keep my cool and help me stay out of Cat fights which don't do my bp any good. Oh, and I am older than most on these threads and have managed to keep my wits about me - I learned to deal with growing old, some time ago. I enjoy doing the emoticons. Especially when I am reading some of the posts from 'special people'.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You're right then. Don't you wear them.



Gerslay said:


> I'm glad you're having fun with them, but do you not agree about wearing mini-skirts? Post-menopausal women (and I am one) just don't have the panache to pull it off!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Not everyone has wrinkly knees. Maybe somebody somewhere has a wrinkly knee fetish. To each his own.



SQM said:


> Panache????? Don't think so. It is a matter of wrinkly knees.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

damemary said:


> Not everyone has wrinkly knees. Maybe somebody somewhere has a wrinkly knee fetish. To each his own.


If you find him, send him to NYC.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> You're right then. Don't you wear them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> You're right then. Don't you wear them.


Love the way you post four times to every situation and basically have nothing to say. Wouldn't be that your just driving up your post count now would it?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Panache????? Don't think so. It is a matter of wrinkly knees.


Sloths in mini-skirts...now that must be something to see!

:XD:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration. He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


lovethelake
I LOVE how JEALOUS of our President you are. You behave like the dumbest in class trying to outdo the smartest and the outcome is always the same, the dumbest remains so and the smartest gets smarter. Any smart person is very familiar with all ways of expression and uses them at very appropriate times. That shows a well rounded education.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Smarter???????????????????????????????????


joeysomma
I guess you have not noticed that you got stuck at least 4 decades ago. It seems you reached your limits then.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration. He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


Also, he sometimes ties his shoes with a double bow. Jeez, is there anything he does that you don't see as treason?

If he's really working against the Constitution, the 5 Republican on SCOTUS will find against him, for better reasons than you give. Don't forget the Supreme Court has already found in his favor on the ACA.

Parenthetically, if you used slang once in a while, maybe that stick up your spine would soften a bit.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


Well, that works for me.


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

damemary said:


> Sounds like a bunch of excuses to me. You dislike President Obama. I don't. I think he's a good man with an impossible job....due mainly to people like you.


I will let you into a little secret, a lot of people down under in the land of Oz also like your President. We agree that he is facing an uphill battle in an impossible job due to the negativity of those who voted for the other side. Many of us do not like our present Prime Minister and we will say so, but I cannot imagine any Aussie resorting to the nasty name calling and remarks being directing to Tony Abbott that some people post about President Obama. We may call him Mr Rabbit but there is a humorous reason for this and it is to do with the way Julia Gillard pronounced his name.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Even not very smart people generally recognize that the Articles and Amerndments of the US Constitution concern action (or the constraining of action) on the part of the government not a respons on an international website.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> I know that you're having a lot of fun with your new skill at inserting animated emoticons, but I wonder if you realize that there's an unwritten rule about these silly emoticons and mini-skirts and that is that there comes an age when neither of them are becoming to a mature woman!
> 
> Just sayin!


That's funny. I'm sure Shirley will let you know when she reaches that age.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have said it many times, but you have forgotten. This thread was started defining abortion as the War on Women. Both the woman having the abortion and the innocent *murdered* baby are paying in their blood. Most are forgetting about that. I need to remind you.


joeysomma
we remember and since we care about Women we are fighting your War on Women. Why do you hate Women so much who have freed themselves from any bondage?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> By the way:Just a thought - *NB - is turning into a very pleasant thread.* It is a shame that *those who dislike 'conversation' *between the two sides, *refuse to come.* *You won't lose 'face ' if you do.* It shows us that *we are all real people *and all * the nastiness is left here,* and in other threads.


Now this is rich. NB is 'turning' into a very pleasant thread? Why wouldn't it be a pleasant thread from the get go?

Designer wrote, "... those who dislike 'conversation' between the two sides, refuse to come."

EVERYONE on KP is engaged in conversation. So who exactly are you insulting now, who "refuse to come?"

Obviously, anyone who refuses or has no interest to post on NB KNOWS who the core posters are and knows the type of posts previously written. Has it ever dawned on you WHY only the Libs from this thread, along with a very small exception of other posters who admittedly ignore this thread, have posted on or even read NB?

NB, since you don't know, is most frequented by the *exact same Liberal posters on this thread.* So, what that means, is that NB is simply another thread where mainly the Libs from this thread post in a 'conversational' way with the EXPRESSED rule to NOT attack and insult anyone. (How ridiculous that a rule is even necessary.)

Designer wrote; "You won't lose face if you do (post on NB)." "It shows we are all real people and the nastiness is left here (on this thread)."

Really Designer? What you have just confirmed, admitted and shown is that the Libs who post on BOTH threads, *have* not only lost face, but are also TWO-FACED. On NB the Libs post pleasantly, but on WOW, watch out because that is where we are nasty and insulting posters, and we know it!!!!

Why aren't those you mention posting on NB the *same * REAL persons regardless of where they post?

Talk about 'losing' face - you have shown exactly who the Libs are; losers.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I will let you into a little secret, a lot of people down under in the land of Oz also like your President. We agree that he is facing an uphill battle in an impossible job due to the negativity of those who voted for the other side. Many of us do not like our present Prime Minister and we will say so, but I cannot imagine any Aussie resorting to the nasty name calling and remarks being directing to Tony Abbott that some people post about President Obama. We may call him Mr Rabbit but there is a humorous reason for this and it is to do with the way Julia Gillard pronounced his name.


EveMCooke
Thank you. Too bad that a handful of UGLY AMERICANS paint most of us that way. Americans are good people and we cannot let a few rotten Apples spoil the rest.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Now this is rich. NB is 'turning' into a very pleasant thread? Why would it be a pleasant thread from the get go?
> 
> My personal favorite, "... those who dislike 'conversation' between the two sides, refuse to come."
> 
> ...


knitpresentgifts
you have shown your "intentions" over and over again and civility is not in your arsenal of behavior. You always jump in to stir the pot and not to improve its contend. Have a good day. Bless you Dear


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> *Murdering* your Baby is a freedom from bondage??????????
> 
> Then you will be in bondage of your guilty conscience the rest of your life, for committing that murder.


joeysomma
you just do not want to get it, do you. Your chains are too right to remove them. I understand. Now I am being accused of Murder? Honestly? Wow. You are the nastiest Christian I ever encountered. Bless you Dear.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You got it.



SQM said:


> If you find him, send him to NYC.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I hadn't thought of it. Is that what you do?



Gerslay said:


> Love the way you post four times to every situation and basically have nothing to say. Wouldn't be that your just driving up your post count now would it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the international perspective.



EveMCooke said:


> I will let you into a little secret, a lot of people down under in the land of Oz also like your President. We agree that he is facing an uphill battle in an impossible job due to the negativity of those who voted for the other side. Many of us do not like our present Prime Minister and we will say so, but I cannot imagine any Aussie resorting to the nasty name calling and remarks being directing to Tony Abbott that some people post about President Obama. We may call him Mr Rabbit but there is a humorous reason for this and it is to do with the way Julia Gillard pronounced his name.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> joeysomma
> we remember and since we care about Women we are fighting your War on Women. Why do you hate Women so much who have freed themselves from any bondage?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you on dope?



knitpresentgifts said:


> Now this is rich. NB is 'turning' into a very pleasant thread? Why wouldn't it be a pleasant thread from the get go?
> 
> Designer wrote, "... those who dislike 'conversation' between the two sides, refuse to come."
> 
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Only if you had an abortion. It may have been legal, but not moral. Killing another human being for just being* inconvenient* is murder.


Then why use the term 'murderer' if you don't know? Does this mean it's okay to write everything that one thinks is true? Careful. You've heard of Pandora's box?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> *Murdering* your Baby is a freedom from bondage??????????
> 
> Then you will be in bondage of your guilty conscience the rest of your life, for committing that murder.


I don't believe she has a conscience (as revealed by her words).


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Love the way you post four times to every situation and basically have nothing to say. Wouldn't be that your just driving up your post count now would it?


 :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Sloths in mini-skirts...now that must be something to see!
> 
> :XD:


I wanna see!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> I have said it many times, but you have forgotten. This thread was started defining abortion as the War on Women. Both the woman having the abortion and the innocent *murdered* baby are paying in their blood. Most are forgetting about that. I need to remind you.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> lovethelake
> I LOVE how JEALOUS of our President you are. You behave like the dumbest in class trying to outdo the smartest and the outcome is always the same, the dumbest remains so and the smartest gets smarter. Any smart person is very familiar with all ways of expression and uses them at very appropriate times. That shows a well rounded education.


Jealous over the President?
The smartest gets smarter?

My word, this paragraph is so poor in content and without logic, it cannot even be discussed.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> *Murdering* your Baby is a freedom from bondage??????????
> 
> Then you will be in bondage of your guilty conscience the rest of your life, for committing that murder.


No one I know who had an abortion is suffering in any way. And I know quite a few.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

damemary said:


> I hadn't thought of it. Is that what you do?


No, darlin, but everyone knows it's what YOU do!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> I have said it many times, but you have forgotten. This thread was started defining abortion as the War on Women. Both the woman having the abortion and the innocent *murdered* baby are paying in their blood. Most are forgetting about that. I need to remind you.


You can say that again, Joey. And I guess it's necessary seeing as how the libs keep forgetting that your the OP!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> No one I know who had an abortion is suffering in any way. And I know quite a few.


SQM, I know some also and two do have regrets, but one in particular never had any other children and she regrets it very much.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jealous over the President?
> The smartest gets smarter?
> 
> My word, this paragraph is so poor in content and without logic, it cannot even be discussed.


knitpresentgifts
we know your limitations well.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> SQM, I know some also and two do have regrets, but one in particular never had any other children and she regrets it very much.


Gerslay
interesting that these women ONLY are found in your circles and not ours.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

damemary said:


> Then why use the term 'murderer' if you don't know? Does this mean it's okay to write everything that one thinks is true? Careful. You've heard of Pandora's box?


damemary I see that the tidy righties have taken on the role of judge, jury and executioner especially when it comes to their own kind, other women. How on earth would they know why a woman has an abortion and if it is moral or immoral unless they have had one themselves. What happened to the admonition of judge not lest you be judged. Obviously, they don't know the meaning of those words. I thought those decisions were to be left to a higher power but once again they "know it all" when in fact they know nothing. They would be wiser to speak from their own personal experience than to sound stupid by expressing their uneducated and unenlightened personal opinions. Obviously, that's all they have got and it sure isn't much.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Jealous over the President?
> The smartest gets smarter?
> 
> My word, this paragraph is so poor in content and without logic, it cannot even be discussed.


knitpresentgifts
well, you are jealous of everyone who does not kiss your xxxxxx. When they fell away from you at D&P you threatened to "go away" and once they kissed up to you again, you stayed. Is that not proof enough how insecure you are without a load of "hangers-on"? You wish to be a leader and have no skills to take such a position, therefore you always jump in everywhere and try to create discourse in hopes to look like you count. Well, you don't in most places and you have never noticed that.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Doing the bidding of the GOP. How pathetic is this.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Panache????? Don't think so. It is a matter of wrinkly knees.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> well, you are jealous of everyone who does not kiss your xxxxxx. When they fell away from you at D&P you threatened to "go away" and once they kissed up to you again, you stayed. Is that not proof enough how insecure you are without a load of "hangers-on"? You wish to be a leader and have no skills to take such a position, therefore you always jump in everywhere and try to create discourse in hopes to look like you count. Well, you don't in most places and you have never noticed that.


You described her perfectly, Huck! Like telling the emperor he has no clothes or "pride goeth before the fall". She has an ego as big as a blimp and all the hot air coming out of her mouth keeps that giant head bouncing up there. What an amusing site. Maybe, one of her friends should tell her how foolish she looks or are they all too afraid. We know how nasty she can be when she is PO'd. :hunf:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's funny. I'm sure Shirley will let you know when she reaches that age.


I sure will - not even close yet.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

What happened to freedom of speech?
By your definition people should be able to speak without direct response.



joeysomma said:


> I have said it many times, but you have forgotten. This thread was started defining abortion as the War on Women. Both the woman having the abortion and the innocent *murdered* baby are paying in their blood. Most are forgetting about that. I need to remind you.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

damemary said:


> Are you on dope?


Don't know if she is on dope, but she sure presents herself as a dope.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You described her perfectly, Huck! Like telling the emperor he has no clothes or "pride goeth before the fall". She has an ego as big as a blimp and all the hot air coming out of her mouth keeps that giant head bouncing up there. What an amusing site. Maybe, one of her friends should tell her how foolish she looks or are they all too afraid. We know how nasty she can be when she is PO'd. :hunf:


Cheeky Blighter
Hello Cheeky, so nice to see you. You describe her even better than I did. "Afraid" is the correct word. She quickly gets into gear if someone does not toot into her horn and reports them. I guess it is important to her to be the Nr. 1 Snitch. Well, when you can't be at the top of something important, you grab at anything.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I'm baaaaack! Hi everybody. Did you miss me? We just spent a week in the Black Hills. We climbed the rocks and hiked along a stream. But mostly we just sat and soaked up the beautiful scenery. It was awesome. The temps were perfect. No rain. We had been planning to come back tomorrow but we were all (6 of us) exhausted and decided to have a couple of days to recover. 

I got a lot of knitting done.  I'm knitting slippers for my daughter, dils, sister and nieces, etc... for Christmas. I found a cool pattern in a magazine. It has a cable up the top of the foot and a big cuff. I finished three pairs, eight more to go. Its a fun, easy pattern but I'm sure I'll get tired of it.

My son from western Nebraska called us while we were out there. He asked his girlfriend to marry him. They've been living together for nearly a year. They were planning a wedding for next July but when they talked to her pastor, he said that he would either marry them right away or she would have to move out of his house til next year. So now, they've decided to get married NEXT Friday. Crazy! I can't believe its going to be so soon. I spent yesterday finding something to wear. And I'm trying to get all of the laundry done. Its another long drive for us. Driving to the Hills was a 9 hour drive and this will be an 8 hour drive. Too much car time! 

Well, I need to go switch a load of clothes. I'll be back in a little while. Gotta catch up.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Gerslay
> interesting that these women ONLY are found in your circles and not ours.


Interesting Huck, that the women I'm talking about are all liberals and you'd find them in your circle of friends too.

You might think before you post next time!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Now this is rich. NB is 'turning' into a very pleasant thread? Why wouldn't it be a pleasant thread from the get go?
> 
> Designer wrote, "... those who dislike 'conversation' between the two sides, refuse to come."
> 
> ...


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Don't know if she is on dope, but she sure presents herself as a dope.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm baaaaack! Hi everybody. Did you miss me? We just spent a week in the Black Hills. We climbed the rocks and hiked along a stream. But mostly we just sat and soaked up the beautiful scenery. It was awesome. The temps were perfect. No rain. We had been planning to come back tomorrow but we were all (6 of us) exhausted and decided to have a couple of days to recover.
> 
> I got a lot of knitting done.  I'm knitting slippers for my daughter, dils, sister and nieces, etc... for Christmas. I found a cool pattern in a magazine. It has a cable up the top of the foot and a big cuff. I finished three pairs, eight more to go. Its a fun, easy pattern but I'm sure I'll get tired of it.
> 
> ...


Congratulations and welcome back. Give them our best wishes.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


>


Love those dancing kitties, Shirley! Too bad gersley is so old she can't have fun anymore. I wasn't aware that there was an age limit on enjoying life to the fullest. Maybe that's what is wrong with the tidy righties. I thought maybe they just didn't have enough fiber in their diet. Poor old darlings.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Welcome back KFN


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Interesting Huck, that the women I'm talking about are all liberals, and you'd find them in your circle of friends too.
> 
> You might think before you post next time!


You are old and confused and have no sense of humor. Huck is doing just fine and doesn't need assistance from anyone, least of all you and I do mean least. :thumbdown:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> That's funny. Last time I looked, he is very well respected globally.
> More propaganda from the right, solo?


Who respects him? Putin, Israel, N. Korea, China? When was the last time your looked 2009?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

BrattyPatty said:


> Because in the ultra negative world of solowey, it couldn't have been taken any other way.


FYI I was responding to a picture posted of Gerald Ford playing golf. Accidents happened when one got too close to him during his outings. Go ahead and post away. In your haste in making a snarky comment, you just show how ignorant you are.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Love those dancing kitties, Shirley! Too bad gersley is so old she can't have fun anymore. I wasn't aware that there was an age limit on enjoying life to the fullest. Maybe that's what is wrong with the tidy righties. I thought maybe they just didn't have enough fiber in their diet. Poor old darlings.


Show me a picture of you in a mini-skirt and I'll agree with you, O'Cheeky one, but until then you of all people shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> By "real opinions" are you referring to right wing propaganda? Now that is really something valid.


Hardly. By listening to interviews of PM's, Ambassadors, spokespersons form other countries, etc. Try it, you will learn something.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> "Making fun of avatars? How low can you get" - soloweygirl.


Just following your example Pitiful. Even though you need to learn what payback is. My avatar is just a picture I found on the internet, not something you foolishly believed I created and attempted to degrade. Again, LOSER.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oh dour one, Bratty is cute and funny.


Cute and funny remains to be seen. I certainly haven't seen it yet.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I dunno about that Brat...it may not seem like a big deal to you but in certain instances a swollen tongue can be an indicator of a deadly condition. Yours has been hanging out there picking up all kinds of who knows what for who knows how long. You might want to reel it in!
> 
> :thumbup:


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Except he didn't make anything more difficult, he made it easier. If you think the most important thing going on right now is to carp on that point, go for it. The zombies in the House have decimated the government---and they're actually proud of what they're doing because they're anti-government. I always wonder why people who hate the federal government want to run for public office. I guess it's for the pay check. And now they're going on vacation!


The Senate went first without doing anything about the immigration "humanitarian" crisis. That certainly says a lot about Harry Reid and his Democrats.


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary I see that the tidy righties have taken on the role of judge, jury and executioner especially when it comes to their own kind, other women. How on earth would they know why a woman has an abortion and if it is moral or immoral unless they have had one themselves. What happened to the admonition of judge not lest you be judged. Obviously, they don't know the meaning of those words. I thought those decisions were to be left to a higher power but once again they "know it all" when in fact they know nothing. They would be wiser to speak from their own personal experience than to sound stupid by expressing their uneducated and unenlightened personal opinions. Obviously, that's all they have got and it sure isn't much.


 But they're CHRISTIANS!!


----------



## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm baaaaack! Hi everybody. Did you miss me? We just spent a week in the Black Hills. We climbed the rocks and hiked along a stream. But mostly we just sat and soaked up the beautiful scenery. It was awesome. The temps were perfect. No rain. We had been planning to come back tomorrow but we were all (6 of us) exhausted and decided to have a couple of days to recover.
> 
> I got a lot of knitting done.  I'm knitting slippers for my daughter, dils, sister and nieces, etc... for Christmas. I found a cool pattern in a magazine. It has a cable up the top of the foot and a big cuff. I finished three pairs, eight more to go. Its a fun, easy pattern but I'm sure I'll get tired of it.
> 
> ...


Congrats! Have fun with the wedding!!


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

lovethelake said:


> If the states pass a law it must be Constitutionally in line with a Federal Law. So if the law was passed by the state and if it has been challenged but upheld then it is constitutional. It was not governors that changed the law it was the Legislative Branch of that state (or Commonwealth). There lies the difference. They did it legally and Obama has not. He does not have the power to rewrite laws. He only has the power to execute what was passed. So no, he does not have the power to rewrite laws, that would be an act of a dictator or monarch, not an elected president of the USA who swore on a bible that he would uphold the Constitution at his inauguration.  He has broken that oath. And he is resentful and child-like as he reacts to being challenged in court over his over reaching executive orders. He has been slapped down by the Supreme Court more times than any other president, and yet he stands on his soapbox and goads the House to challenge him. He resorts to slang language to 'fit in' which is also so beneath someone in authority let alone a graduate of Harvard. We deserve better than that.


This behavior is what the world is watching and the LWN's say Obama hasn't lost respect from the world's leaders. A good solid majority of our country knows that Obama has lost respect. This group is still drinking the kool-aid.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> You are wrong IMO.
> 
> The problem is we have to listen unless we identify your cut & paste signature and ignore you right away.
> 
> I truly wish you would tell us why you are so fixated on abortion.


Wrong. You do not HAVE to listen, you CHOOSE to listen by staying on the thread. Can't you be honest just once?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Joey informed us the President....President Barack Obama...works for her. Maybe you should go talk to her?


Yes, works for her because she is an American citizen. He also works for you, no? He applied for the job of POTUS and was hired by the American people.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

That is absolutely not true. President Ford was quite athletic, thee were a couple of incidents so the klutz thing was blown way out of proportion. That is all.


soloweygirl said:


> FYI I was responding to a picture posted of Gerald Ford playing golf. Accidents happened when one got too close to him during his outings. Go ahead and post away. In your haste in making a snarky comment, you just show how ignorant you are.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> The Senate went first without doing anything about the immigration "humanitarian" crisis. That certainly says a lot about Harry Reid and his Democrats.[/
> 
> You're trying to defend the actions of the House by blaming the Senate? That's quite a trick. Everyone knows about that bunch of bozos in the House!


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

maysmom said:


> But they're CHRISTIANS!!


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Show me a picture of you in a mini-skirt and I'll agree with you, O'Cheeky one, but until then you of all people shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age!


What kind of a crack was that?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Are you on dope?


If you think KPG is wrong, prove it. It is an accurate description. The cast of characters posting on both threads are basically the same, with the majority being you and your friends. Rules were presented and scoldings do occur on occasion, which some are still pouting about.

What is your take on NB?


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! The POTUS IS the POTUS, Wombat? Wow, you thought those on this thread didn't know that already? I certainly hope you thought this through.
> 
> You're right and that there is no contest. It is what it is.
> 
> Now, why don't you explain and enlighten USA citizens on what laws and Constitutional Oaths Barack Hussein Obama has broken and ignored during his terms?


I find it interesting that non-citizens of the USA lecture us on the Constitutionality of Obama illegally changing laws. I think Huck asked the question about Obama's power, and I answered. Then the ill informed non-citizens show their lack of knowledge on our Constitutional law and make themselves look foolish. Bless their hearts


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You described her perfectly, Huck! Like telling the emperor he has no clothes or "pride goeth before the fall". She has an ego as big as a blimp and all the hot air coming out of her mouth keeps that giant head bouncing up there. What an amusing site. Maybe, one of her friends should tell her how foolish she looks or are they all too afraid. We know how nasty she can be when she is PO'd. :hunf:


Ah, the words of experience. First the forum, then the suspension. Yes, definitely speaking from experience.


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Show me a picture of you in a mini-skirt and I'll agree with you, O'Cheeky one, but until then you of all people shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age!


<<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> How fun! The POTUS IS the POTUS, Wombat? Wow, you thought those on this thread didn't know that already? I certainly hope you thought this through.
> 
> You're right and that there is no contest. It is what it is.
> 
> Now, why don't you explain and enlighten USA citizens on what laws and Constitutional Oaths Barack Hussein Obama has broken and ignored during his terms?


My point is this - regardless of your perception that Barack Obama has broken or ignored Constitutional Oaths, he was voted into office, by the American people TWICE.

I don't know of any Constitutional Oaths he has broken or ignored and I'm sure that if he had, there would have been much criticism of him here in Australia for doing so but there has been none.

And don't patronize me.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I thought everyone had at least some clue about the functions of each house of Congress.



cookiequeen said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > The Senate went first without doing anything about the immigration "humanitarian" crisis. That certainly says a lot about Harry Reid and his Democrats.[/
> ...


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> IMHO they might give Mother Theresa a break now and then. President Barack Obama? Never. So I say use what powers you can and let em gripe.


 :XD:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> She doesn't know the job of the POTUS anymore than the present POTUS does.
> 
> I take that back, actually, Obama does know, he just doesn't do it while breaking the laws of the land and those he swore (twice) to uphold.
> 
> Some Constitutional Lawyer, huh? No wonder he had his academic records expunged.


http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> <<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head.


Your description sounds like KPG (minus the remarks about sex)


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> If you find him, send him to NYC.


You're lucky your 'knees' are covered with fur!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> <<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head.


:::::You're so right LTL. If this is what we're getting from them in the noon hour we can only imagine what we'll get when they all start 'sundowning.' Thanks for the warning!:::::


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Hardly. By listening to interviews of PM's, Ambassadors, spokespersons form other countries, etc. Try it, you will learn something.


soloweygirl
you mean listening to Faux Entertainment? We happen to be close friends to a couple Ambassadors and they have no complaints about President Obama. We have friends world-wide and get direct, not filtered information, and our President is in very good standing. I know that bugs the Hell out of you and you hope that your negative talks will influence others, it doesn't. Bless you Dear.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Your description sounds like KPG (minus the remarks about sex)


Cindy S
it seems that the absence of Sex is frustrating these Gals so much. Perhaps they need to visit a Chippendale Show to relax.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I will let you into a little secret, a lot of people down under in the land of Oz also like your President. We agree that he is facing an uphill battle in an impossible job due to the negativity of those who voted for the other side. Many of us do not like our present Prime Minister and we will say so, but I cannot imagine any Aussie resorting to the nasty name calling and remarks being directing to Tony Abbott that some people post about President Obama. We may call him Mr Rabbit but there is a humorous reason for this and it is to do with the way Julia Gillard pronounced his name.


I'm not fond of Mr Abbot's political agenda however, I think he's a good man. I admire his obvious love for his family and his athleticism.

I cannot recall a time where it's been reported in Australian news that President Obama has acted in the scandalous way as attributed to him here.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I find it interesting that non-citizens of the USA lecture us on the Constitutionality of Obama illegally changing laws. I think Huck asked the question about Obama's power, and I answered. Then the ill informed non-citizens show their lack of knowledge on our Constitutional law and make themselves look foolish. Bless their hearts


lovethelake
I did what? Wrong as usual. As to non-Citizens (in this case you meant Citizens of foreign Countries) speaking about our Politics, since we are in a Global System, it is essential to know how other Countries function. Of course that is not of interest to you, you prefer to stay in your Box. In addition, we have Millions of non-Citizens in the USA who have the same rights as anyone-else except they cannot vote. I guess you have missed this all of your Life. Wonder how you feel about folks like Cruz's Father and Cruz trying to tear apart our Country. I deeply resent it. They remind me of Castro's behavior when he wanted to replace Batista. A frightening scenario. The Cubans have been suffering ever since.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Hiddy ho! I think it important to research prior to just copying and pasting information. There is typically more to the story if we just look a little deeper.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

lovethelake said:


> I find it interesting that non-citizens of the USA lecture us on the Constitutionality of Obama illegally changing laws. I think Huck asked the question about Obama's power, and I answered. Then the ill informed non-citizens show their lack of knowledge on our Constitutional law and make themselves look foolish. Bless their hearts


Who lectured you? Re-post the evidence.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm not fond of Mr Abbot's political agenda however, I think he's a good man. I admire his obvious love for his family and his athleticism.
> 
> I cannot recall a time where it's been reported in Australian news that President Obama has acted in the scandalous way as attributed to him here.


Wombatnomore
neither has the Main Stream News Media of just about every other Country. We have a wonderful Shop nearby which carries papers from all over the World and we frequent it regularly. It gives us a cross section of what happens everywhere.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Thaaaaats what I was thinking. We should write to our Commander in Chief and suggest it. Couldn't hurt, right? What's the worst that could happen, they agree and things would just remain the way they are?
> 
> They are foolish to think that this one man has all the power they think he does. They think WE idolize him; THEY think he's G-D.


Amazing that some expect this one person to suddenly create millions of jobs, end all wars, close the borders and ensure all roadways are repaired. Oh wait, that would be god.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Hiddy ho! I think it important to research prior to just copying and pasting information. There is typically more to the story if we just look a little deeper.


To whom are you referring?


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Hiddy ho! I think it important to research prior to just copying and pasting information. There is typically more to the story if we just look a little deeper.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitted by Nan (Aug 3, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm not fond of Mr Abbot's political agenda however, I think he's a good man. I admire his obvious love for his family and his athleticism.
> 
> I cannot recall a time where it's been reported in Australian news that President Obama has acted in the scandalous way as attributed to him here.


I guess I should have explained myself better. When I said that many Australians do not like our present Prime Minister I was speaking in a political sense. They do not like his political agenda and the actions he has taken politically. I was not speaking of a dislike for the man on a personal level. I do not like many of the policies of his party and will readily say so, but I agree with you that on a personal level he is an honest man. I see no need to attack him personally. But his party won the election and baring a double dissolution of parliament he is our Prime Minister. The next election is not due for a few years so he is our Prime Minister at least until the next election. Who knows what at that election. But, being Aussies we will laugh when he is cartooned in his budgie smugglers.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Wombatnomore
> neither has the Main Stream News Media of just about every other Country. We have a wonderful Shop nearby which carries papers from all over the World and we frequent it regularly. It gives us a cross section of what happens everywhere.


It truly stuns me that people think they can trample all over The President's reputation, without factual evidence and think it's okay. It's not okay. Not okay at all. :hunf:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I should have explained myself better. When I said that many Australians do not like our present Prime Minister I was speaking in a political sense. They do not like his political agenda and the actions he has taken politically. I was not speaking of a dislike for the man on a personal level. I do not like many of the policies of his party and will readily say so, but I agree with you that on a personal level he is an honest man. I see no need to attack him personally. But his party won the election and baring a double dissolution of parliament he is our Prime Minister. The next election is not due for a few years so he is our Prime Minister at least until the next election. Who knows what at that election. But, being Aussies we will laugh when he is cartooned in his budgie smugglers.


I didn't think for a moment you were referring to Mr Abbot personally!  Ah, those budgie smugglers! He's lucky he can 'pull them off.' Pardon the pun.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

damemary said:


> Are you on dope?


 My thought too. What a weird post.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> To whom are you referring?


Oh sorry, to my post earlier about an abortion copy/paste article by Joeysomma. I've been in absentia for awhile - I need to remember to reply with the quote - that would be helpful.


----------



## GWPlver (Mar 15, 2013)

:thumbup: to Wombat


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Oh sorry, to my post earlier about an abortion copy/paste article by Joeysomma. I've been in absentia for awhile - I need to remember to reply with the quote - that would be helpful.


Hello GWPlver, I'm wombat, nice to meet you.

Thanks for clarifying, I've only just posted a link re President Obama's academic records and I was thinking "oh no, hope that's not meant for me"!


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Oh sorry, to my post earlier about an abortion copy/paste article by Joeysomma. I've been in absentia for awhile - I need to remember to reply with the quote - that would be helpful.


I knew right away the cut and paste jobs you were referring to....welcome back


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> That's funny. I'm sure Shirley will let you know when she reaches that age.


If the shoe fits....


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Are you trying to sweeten up to me, darlin?



Gerslay said:


> No, darlin, but everyone knows it's what YOU do!


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Have you ever tried silence or does your church forbid it?



joeysomma said:


> Are they suffering in silence? They may never tell anyone.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm coming to a conclusion based on the vehemence of their comments, that they protest too much...perhaps trying to make up for their own sins. Just my opinion.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary I see that the tidy righties have taken on the role of judge, jury and executioner especially when it comes to their own kind, other women. How on earth would they know why a woman has an abortion and if it is moral or immoral unless they have had one themselves. What happened to the admonition of judge not lest you be judged. Obviously, they don't know the meaning of those words. I thought those decisions were to be left to a higher power but once again they "know it all" when in fact they know nothing. They would be wiser to speak from their own personal experience than to sound stupid by expressing their uneducated and unenlightened personal opinions. Obviously, that's all they have got and it sure isn't much.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Well put Huck.



Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts
> well, you are jealous of everyone who does not kiss your xxxxxx. When they fell away from you at D&P you threatened to "go away" and once they kissed up to you again, you stayed. Is that not proof enough how insecure you are without a load of "hangers-on"? You wish to be a leader and have no skills to take such a position, therefore you always jump in everywhere and try to create discourse in hopes to look like you count. Well, you don't in most places and you have never noticed that.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Is this what Bible study gets you these days?
Sweet little Christian ladies taunting people about their supposed diseases and handicaps?
Bless their little hearts.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Doing the bidding of the GOP. How pathetic is this.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I love it.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

When POed they strike back fiercely as in Wombatnomore who dared to change her mind.



Cheeky Blighter said:


> You described her perfectly, Huck! Like telling the emperor he has no clothes or "pride goeth before the fall". She has an ego as big as a blimp and all the hot air coming out of her mouth keeps that giant head bouncing up there. What an amusing site. Maybe, one of her friends should tell her how foolish she looks or are they all too afraid. We know how nasty she can be when she is PO'd. :hunf:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> What happened to freedom of speech?
> By your definition people should be able to speak without direct response.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

You are completely correct. Thank you for helping to clear my mind.



Cindy S said:


> Don't know if she is on dope, but she sure presents herself as a dope.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Would WWIII make you happier? I wonder how much respect they have for the Tea Party? Now or ever? Oh, they have no standing anywhere. Go peddle your opinions elsewhere.



soloweygirl said:


> Who respects him? Putin, Israel, N. Korea, China? When was the last time your looked 2009?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Names and quotes if you wish to discuss something in particular.



soloweygirl said:


> Hardly. By listening to interviews of PM's, Ambassadors, spokespersons form other countries, etc. Try it, you will learn something.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

neener neener neener



soloweygirl said:


> Just following your example Pitiful. Even though you need to learn what payback is. My avatar is just a picture I found on the internet, not something you foolishly believed I created and attempted to degrade. Again, LOSER.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Open your eyes and ears.



soloweygirl said:


> Cute and funny remains to be seen. I certainly haven't seen it yet.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes, in their opinion, they are Christians. Must be a cult no one else knows. Christians for KPG? Scientology 101? Kristian?



maysmom said:


> But they're CHRISTIANS!!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> Names and quotes if you wish to discuss something in particular.


She can't, European Heads of State may be annoyed these days by some of the actions of certain Intelligence agencies, the information that keeps coming out, like that article that Poor Purl posted about paying ransoms to "pirates", shows that the US has reason to check on all levels of governmental hierarchy. Regardless of how friendly other gov'ts claim to be there is double dealing and backstabbing everywhere.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Told you it was a cult.



soloweygirl said:


> This behavior is what the world is watching and the LWN's say Obama hasn't lost respect from the world's leaders. A good solid majority of our country knows that Obama has lost respect. This group is still drinking the kool-aid.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Yes, works for her because she is an American citizen. He also works for you, no? He applied for the job of POTUS and was hired by the American people.


 :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> soloweygirl said:
> 
> 
> > The Senate went first without doing anything about the immigration "humanitarian" crisis. That certainly says a lot about Harry Reid and his Democrats.[/
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> What kind of a crack was that?


Maybe we should ask where.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Thank you for the perfect answer to this old canard. And they ask why we won't get into the same old lies over and over and over. Never matters that they have been proven wrong.



Wombatnomore said:


> http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Monkey see....monkey do. And they are monkeys....minus the sex.



Cindy S said:


> Your description sounds like KPG (minus the remarks about sex)


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> It truly stuns me that people think they can trample all over The President's reputation, without factual evidence and think it's okay. It's not okay. Not okay at all. :hunf:


Honestly, I don't think that many of these people even think of what they may say in relation to President Obama's reputation. 
I think they just like that little tingle they get from talking about the salacious rumors that have been spread. 
Just like those Mandingo style stories getting some all aflutter.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

damemary said:


> Are you trying to sweeten up to me, darlin?


I know a place the shoe would fit.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Hiddy ho! I think it important to research prior to just copying and pasting information. There is typically more to the story if we just look a little deeper.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: I'd be happy if a personal opinion or thought were given. Cut & paste from sources of questionable creditability is annoying to me.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

GWPlver said:


> Amazing that some expect this one person to suddenly create millions of jobs, end all wars, close the borders and ensure all roadways are repaired. Oh wait, that would be god.


Perhaps He should ascend into heaven when his term is up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

EveMCooke said:


> I guess I should have explained myself better. When I said that many Australians do not like our present Prime Minister I was speaking in a political sense. They do not like his political agenda and the actions he has taken politically. I was not speaking of a dislike for the man on a personal level. I do not like many of the policies of his party and will readily say so, but I agree with you that on a personal level he is an honest man. I see no need to attack him personally. But his party won the election and baring a double dissolution of parliament he is our Prime Minister. The next election is not due for a few years so he is our Prime Minister at least until the next election. Who knows what at that election. But, being Aussies we will laugh when he is cartooned in his budgie smugglers.


Political cartoons always get Americans too.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I didn't think for a moment you were referring to Mr Abbot personally!  Ah, those budgie smugglers! He's lucky he can 'pull them off.' Pardon the pun.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: I love puns.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I wonder if the Secret Service, TSA, NSA monitor these threats.



Knitanon said:


> Honestly, I don't think that many of these people even think of what they may say in relation to President Obama's reputation.
> I think they just like that little tingle they get from talking about the salacious rumors that have been spread.
> Just like those Mandingo style stories getting some all aflutter.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The CIA is finished with spying on Senatorial staff for the moment, they may be ready for KP. 


damemary said:


> I wonder if the Secret Service, TSA, NSA monitor these threats.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Thank you for the perfect answer to this old canard. And they ask why we won't get into the same old lies over and over and over. Never matters that they have been proven wrong.


What CAN one say about the blatant slander of President Obama by some on this and other threads?

Is it simply due to a disaffected group of people who need to verbalize their discontent or is it a 'female' thing, you know, women needing to vent their fury to appease some physiological or psychological demon? I've been guilty of that but never towards an American President.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

GWPlver said:


> Amazing that some expect this one person to suddenly create millions of jobs, end all wars, close the borders and ensure all roadways are repaired. Oh wait, that would be god.


GWPIver
he could not even make Humans right.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Honestly, I don't think that many of these people even think of what they may say in relation to President Obama's reputation.
> I think they just like that little tingle they get from talking about the salacious rumors that have been spread.
> Just like those Mandingo style stories getting some all aflutter.


I totally agree. You've successfully summed up the situation to a tee.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> She can't, European Heads of State may be annoyed these days by some of the actions of certain Intelligence agencies, the information that keeps coming out, like that article that Poor Purl posted about paying ransoms to "pirates", shows that the US has reason to check on all levels of governmental hierarchy. Regardless of how friendly other gov'ts claim to be there is double dealing and backstabbing everywhere.


Knitanon
at least our intelligence is intelligent enough to keep checking. Look what just happened, John Kerry worked his Heart out and got double-crossed. It pays to trust no-one.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Honestly, I don't think that many of these people even think of what they may say in relation to President Obama's reputation.
> I think they just like that little tingle they get from talking about the salacious rumors that have been spread.
> Just like those Mandingo style stories getting some all aflutter.


Knitanon
these folks are so lonesome because of their ill behavior that they chime in with those who scream the loudest, no matter what they holler, just to hear a voice.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitanon
> at least our intelligence is intelligent enough to keep checking. Look what just happened, John Kerry worked his Heart out and got double-crossed. It pays to trust no-one.


It is just proof positive that the Palestinians in Gaza put their eggs in the wrong basket; it seems that nobody can find a way to scramble those little oval bits of protein without losing way too many of the helpless little chicks. 
When are people ever going to learn that violent exchanges are not the answer?


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> Your description sounds like KPG (minus the remarks about sex)


joined at the hip maybe? the Three muskateers of the Right.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

damemary said:


> Just sayin your opinion, it's true. As are everyone else. Keep the judgements to your self.
> 
> Silly? Unbecoming to 'mature' woman? Learn to identify and avoid. That's my judgement of the day.


knitting:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Ah, the words of experience. First the forum, then the suspension. Yes, definitely speaking from experience.


Exactly which person are you talking about? As you know, there have been a few suspensions.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> SQM, I know some also and two do have regrets, but one in particular never had any other children and she regrets it very much.


These women are only two examples and may prove to be the exceptions to the rule.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

joeysomma said:


> Are they suffering in silence? They may never tell anyone.


Ridiculous. Clearly we have discussed it. No one regrets her decision and is just grateful that it could be done safely.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> <<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head.


I guess you must feel so good about yourself that you have to resort to making fun of someone's AGE? WOW! That's Christian. Also, I guess you must suffer from Alzheimer's because you exhibit the symptoms you attribute to others---anger, rage, fixations, inappropriateness, perseveration (Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi), Obama-this and Obama-that. And you felt bad because someone criticized your hands? If you're going to dish it, you have to be prepared to take it.
I'm tired of left-leaning people getting all the "credit" for being nasty.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Right, because with all the milions of "murdered babies" if even 10% of the women who chose to have abortions regretted it we would be seeing rallies to rival the 1963 March on Washington rather than protests that look like the last move to arrest President Obama. LOL, what DID happen to that? They weren't going to go away until they succeeded, right?



SQM said:


> These women are only two examples and may prove to be the exceptions to the rule.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Designer1234 said:


> joined at the hip maybe? the Three muskateers of the Right.


Yup, sweet on the outside, gooey and cloying on the inside.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, sweet on the outside, gooey and cloying on the inside.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the opinion of John Engle
> 
> The Inversion of the Presidency
> by John Engle
> ...


I still maintain that the president has had to use his power because .congress has ceded theirs. If we had a Congress (particularly the House) that worked, I think things may have been different.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

I'd like to get a REAL discussion going. Here's my challenge; if it were up to YOU, what would our immigration policy look like? Be prepared to discuss the logistics of your plan. We can argue about something concrete. Ideas vs individuals or parties. Don't bring politics or parties into it, just your ideas for a perfect immigration policy. Keep in mind that our ideas should evolve as we discuss them. This discussion can include people from any country, as immigration is an issue that affects everyone. Game on! Any takers?


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to get a REAL discussion going. Here's my challenge; if it were up to YOU, what would our immigration policy look like? Be prepared to discuss the logistics of your plan. We can argue about something concrete. Ideas vs individuals or parties. Don't bring politics or parties into it, just your ideas for a perfect immigration policy. Keep in mind that our ideas should evolve as we discuss them. This discussion can include people from any country, as immigration is an issue that affects everyone. Game on! Any takers?


I'll think about it while I'm making dinner. Welcome back, by the way.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I think that we should revert to the early 20th Century. 
Restrictions on criminals and unhealthy people entering and criminal behavior a cause for deportation. As so many have said before, if it was good enough for grandma...



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to get a REAL discussion going. Here's my challenge; if it were up to YOU, what would our immigration policy look like? Be prepared to discuss the logistics of your plan. We can argue about something concrete. Ideas vs individuals or parties. Don't bring politics or parties into it, just your ideas for a perfect immigration policy. Keep in mind that our ideas should evolve as we discuss them. This discussion can include people from any country, as immigration is an issue that affects everyone. Game on! Any takers?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

My ideas are always evolving but I think that we need to limit immigration as our resources allow. We have a finite number of jobs and a finite amount of money to support immigrants until they get on their feet. The issue with the unaccompanied minors concerns me the most. My gut says we must take care of the children. But there are issues other than the "feel good" ones. First, by accommodating all of these children, we are encouraging the break up of families. Mothers are sending their children off, thinking it is for their good. This cannot be good! It is never good to separate children from their families. Perhaps our resources would be better used to help these children remain with their families. Surely it would cost less than taking in unknown numbers of children and supporting them through adulthood. Second, its great to SAY we should take them in but the real question is WHO should take them in? This would be a huge undertaking. Its not like adopting a little baby. A lot of these kids are troubled. They had to steal to survive. They've lived with death and crime and are most likely immune to it. How do you teach kids who don't speak English and have been exposed to violence all of their lives to live within a society of laws? None of these things would be easy. It takes very special people to do this job. Do we have enough of these people, or are these kids going to be warehoused until they're old enough of any be let loose on society? WHO'S going to do it and how will we pay for it. It's too easy to say, "somebody" will do it. If we're not willing to do it ourselves, do we have the right to expect somebody else to do it? To me, these seem to be imaginary solutions. If we're going to say, we'll keep them, HOW do we do it? We must have a plan before we take them in or we could be making things worse for everyone.

Next, you MUST look at the job situation. We do not have enough jobs for our own people. If we take in thousands or millions, where does that leave our children and our grandchildren? Will they be able to have a life that remotely resembles ours? Each generation wants more for their children. What are we doing for ours?

Lastly (for now), HOW will we pay for this? WE'RE BROKE! Do we raise taxes? Cut spending? Eliminate (so called) entitlement programs, such as social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, or healthcare? None of these things are attractive but it is physically impossible to keep spending without paying! With no one to loan us money, we are forced to borrow from the federal reserve. They print the money and "loan" it to us. This is like a tax because it inflates the dollar and reduces our ability to afford the things we need, even food. So before you jump to say we should let everyone in, HOW would you pay for it?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Thanks to everyone who welcomed me back! Its good to be back. I missed you all (well, almost all). I cannot tell a lie. LOL!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> And lying .


Ho Hum, the same old calumny. If someone doesn't agree with you they are lying. Grow up and stop your play ground nonsense.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

damemary said:


> The RWN's provide so much comedic material.


I read somewhere that the press is encouraging Michelle Bachmann to run for office again so they don't run out of material for Colbert, Stewart, Maher, Fallon, and their compatriots.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I think that we should revert to the early 20th Century.
> Restrictions on criminals and unhealthy people entering and criminal behavior a cause for deportation. As so many have said before, if it was good enough for grandma...


I wouldn't have expected you to say that. But I think that's a great place to start. There have been a lot of criminal immigrants who have just been released on the streets of this country instead of being deported. I think that's a major issue. Even ONE, is too many!

And health screenings need to take place. I've read that many of these children have lice and scabies. How will we feel when school starts up and our children come home with these things? And what about more serious illness and disease? We're going through a time when our health resources are being rationed. Are we willing to accept less healthcare in order to accommodate more immigrants?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Start a new thread you will get more participants.


Like you did?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The more people there are the more work is needed to feed, transport, clothe, educate, house, and entertain them. It creates more opportunity than it does restrict it. 
Innovative people will create more successful ways to use space, more efficient means of moving people from work to home and school to home. 
An example might be more green roof utilization to feed and control energy consumption. 
The luddites thought that the industrialization of manufacture was the end of production. They were wrong. Every wave of immigrants has been greeted with disdain and cries of too many and they take too much, every time those shouting have been wrong. 
The leadership in Central American nations have been asking the US to support manufacture and industrialization there, that pretty much puts us in the the same (or more) position that was created with other agreements. 
We (the people) encourage corporations to shift business to other nations, we pay them to more and build factories there and our workers are left out in the cold again. 
A simplistic expression of what I see as pros and cons, a beginning, however.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I seriously believe that if Mother Theresa was POTUS you would have something to complain about.
> 
> As I said in an earlier post, Barack Obama is the President of the United States of America. You, on the other hand, are a disgruntled US citizen.
> 
> There is no comparison, there is no contest. Move on.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I read somewhere that the press is encouraging Michelle Bachmann to run for office again so they don't run out of material for Colbert, Stewart, Maher, Fallon, and their compatriots.


MarilynKnits
"run Michelle run" ! We need some entertainment only she can provide. How did she ever make it through any School? As we say:" She is a dumb as a door nail". However a door nail in my opinion has a lot of value and she? For Marcus probably.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Obama works for me, the American Citizen.


He works for all of us American Citizens. And there are more of us who appreciate him than who denigrate him. Yours is a minority view, so get used to it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> The CIA is finished with spying on Senatorial staff for the moment, they may be ready for KP.


Knitanon
I would support that.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

oops


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> ... and me, the American Citizen!


knitpresentgifts
joeysomma
too bad that you are US Citizens because if you were immigrants, we might have reasons to deport you since you have such a hatred for our President and most of us who love our country and support whoever is in the White House. May not always agree with everything but will never be as nasty as you have been on a constant basis towards President Obama. Well perhaps we would have another good reason to ship you out, racism.


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Designer1234 said:


> This thread works fine.
> 
> Designer1234
> you may add my hands.]


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> The more people there are the more work is needed to feed, transport, clothe, educate, house, and entertain them. It creates more opportunity than it does restrict it.
> Innovative people will create more successful ways to use space, more efficient means of moving people from work to home and school to home.
> An example might be more green roof utilization to feed and control energy consumption.
> The luddites thought that the industrialization of manufacture was the end of production. They were wrong. Every wave of immigrants has been greeted with disdain and cries of too many and they take too much, every time those shouting have been wrong.
> ...


Are you familiar with "Agenda 21"? Some of what you said, brought that to mind.

You say, " The more people there are the more work is needed to feed, transport, clothe, educate, house, and entertain them". My question; WHOSE money will pay for these things? In the past, immigrants saved up their money and came here legally or they had someone to stay with. They fed and clothed themselves. They didn't expect free money from the government. They learned English and got a job. Today, our government GIVES them housing, food stamps, education, healthcare, and provides interpreters so they never need to assimilate, you name it! Times have changed! These aren't the immigrants of yesteryear!

The only reason industrialization didn't spell the end of jobs was because people were still needed to operate the machinery. Today, we're dealing with something that threatens our very survival. That is the transfer of jobs to other countries. Ours has become a service economy. The vast majority of our jobs are in the service industry. Service jobs are low paying. If the masses can't afford services, those jobs will disappear too. There is no fixing our economy unless we bring back the jobs. We are in a decline. Without jobs for the people, there isn't money flowing into the government coffers in the way of taxes. How do you fund these things without taxpayers? Everything we want and have become accustomed to, depends upon people working and paying taxes.

Lastly, illegal immigrants often work for cash, under the table. They send money back to their families in other countries. So if they're not paying taxes, they're not helping to fund the government. And if the money is leaving our country, it's not helping our economy. So what's the solution? How can we support what this system has become?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I thought your proposal was that we were going to have a discussion free of politics and other contentious barriers to conversation. 
That didn't last long. 


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you familiar with "Agenda 21"? Some of what you said, brought that to mind.
> 
> You say, " The more people there are the more work is needed to feed, transport, clothe, educate, house, and entertain them". My question; WHOSE money will pay for these things? In the past, immigrants saved up their money and came here legally or they had someone to stay with. They fed and clothed themselves. They didn't expect free money from the government. They learned English and got a job. Today, our government GIVES them housing, food stamps, education, healthcare, and provides interpreters so they never need to assimilate, you name it! Times have changed! These aren't the immigrants of yesteryear!
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> If the shoe fits....


My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what _you_ want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Is this what Bible study gets you these days?
> Sweet little Christian ladies taunting people about their supposed diseases and handicaps?
> Bless their little hearts.


Their teeny tiny very cold hearts.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I thought your proposal was that we were going to have a discussion free of politics and other contentious barriers to conversation.
> That didn't last long.


I guess I didn't express myself well. What I meant was to avoid arguing over which party is to blame for what. I don't think you can have a discussion about the facts of immigration, or even a proposal on immigration without introducing government into the discussion. I think the problems we have now have evolved over time and you can't point your finger at one party or another. But if you're going to ignore what IS, then what's the point?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what _you_ want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.


My tap shoes fit too...shuffle ball change!!!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what _you_ want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.


Did you really tap? Or was that a joke?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm baaaaack! Hi everybody. Did you miss me? We just spent a week in the Black Hills. We climbed the rocks and hiked along a stream. But mostly we just sat and soaked up the beautiful scenery. It was awesome. The temps were perfect. No rain. We had been planning to come back tomorrow but we were all (6 of us) exhausted and decided to have a couple of days to recover.
> 
> I got a lot of knitting done.  I'm knitting slippers for my daughter, dils, sister and nieces, etc... for Christmas. I found a cool pattern in a magazine. It has a cable up the top of the foot and a big cuff. I finished three pairs, eight more to go. Its a fun, easy pattern but I'm sure I'll get tired of it.
> 
> ...


Mazel tov, KFN!! It sounds like you had a blast and continue to enjoy yourself. Very good. Very good indeed.

It's so nice to hear that your son and his fiancé decided to get married sinner. It's so romantic! G-d bless both of them, you and the rest of your family.

L'chayim!

:thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> <<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head.


Regardless of what you say, anger is not a problem for us. You, on the other hand, are forever seething about the fact that Obama somehow is still President. By the time he's out of office, you will have been angry for 8 solid years. That has to play havoc with your mental stability.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

GWPlver said:


> My thought too. What a weird post.


I think she's jealous...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Just following your example Pitiful. Even though you need to learn what payback is. My avatar is just a picture I found on the internet, not something you foolishly believed I created and attempted to degrade. Again, LOSER.


Wait. Let me get this straight (I'll type slowly because I know you have problems reading.) Is it your belief that I thought your obviously commercially made garbage truck was the product of your own hand? Not at all. And I never intended to degrade it; I mentioned it to you exactly once, when you said something about Designer playing with toys. I have no problem with your avatar; it's kind of cute. But you have to admit it's a toy.

By the way, what have I lost? Not my memory, obviously.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Did you really tap? Or was that a joke?


I really did, though not long enough to be a pro. I loved it. My tap shoes were my favorite things to wear around the house. Ask the Flood sisters who lived right downstairs. (Maureen and Sissy - haven't thought about them in a couple of centuries, I think.)


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> My tap shoes fit too...shuffle ball change!!!


Gerslay, a sister tapster? (Wait, I think that's someone who makes tapestries.) Isn't it fun?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, sweet on the outside, gooey and cloying on the inside.


Sweet? Please, could you show some evidence to support what you wrote?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is the opinion of John Engle
> 
> The Inversion of the Presidency
> by John Engle
> July 2, 2014


Who is John Engle, other than a right-wing blogger? Does he have expertise in this area? LinkedIn has 21 people by that name.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I really did, though not long enough to be a pro. I loved it. My tap shoes were my favorite things to wear around the house. Ask the Flood sisters who lived right downstairs. (Maureen and Sissy - haven't thought about them in a couple of centuries, I think.)


My friend's two daughters danced. They attended the Chicago High School For the Arts. I LOVED watching them dance. I went to all of their recitals, even when they were in Chicago. One of them was particularly good in ballet and the other in tap. It was such a joy to watch them. I so longed for a girl so that I could put her in dance. When I finally got one, she wasn't interested in dance. She wanted to play baseball and soccer like her brothers. Alas...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to get a REAL discussion going. Here's my challenge; if it were up to YOU, what would our immigration policy look like? Be prepared to discuss the logistics of your plan. We can argue about something concrete. Ideas vs individuals or parties. Don't bring politics or parties into it, just your ideas for a perfect immigration policy. Keep in mind that our ideas should evolve as we discuss them. This discussion can include people from any country, as immigration is an issue that affects everyone. Game on! Any takers?


Why not open a new thread on the topic? I'm sure you'll find plenty of takers on KP.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I guess I didn't express myself well. What I meant was to avoid arguing over which party is to blame for what. I don't think you can have a discussion about the facts of immigration, or even a proposal on immigration without introducing government into the discussion. I think the problems we have now have evolved over time and you can't point your finger at one party or another. But if you're going to ignore what IS, then what's the point?


You didn't say that you wanted to talk about what is, you asked for proposals for moving forward. Then you raise Agenda 21 which is an absolutely divisive project due to the paranoid conjecture of the far right wing. 
Agenda 21has almost nothing to do with immigration. So there would be no reason for anyone to have thoughts of it brought up by mention of reverting to the system that our government used in the early 20th Century. 
AAMOF, if Agenda 21 is successful there would be less reason for people to migrate from their nation of origin to the US. It would cut back on the desperation that causes people to leave their homes and families.

The United Nations is not my government. I am not worried that it ever will be my government. I do not buy into partial truths and scare tactics about some foreign bogeyman coming to grab all that I hold stewardship over. 
It is the internal enemies who are going to do us in. 
There would be no undocumented entries into the US if we adopted my plan, I am not sure what the concern is about people sending money to their home state. People have been doing that since they have been able. People do it in every nation state that takes people in. It is even less of a threat to us now than it was in the past since we deal with a global economy. Our money floats around the world now and not just to the town down the road.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks to everyone who welcomed me back! Its good to be back. I missed you all (well, almost all). I cannot tell a lie. LOL!


I'm late in my welcome because I'm reading from the end - there have been way too many messages here today.

You seem to have had a good time away and a really nice surprise when you got back. Congratulations to your son and soon-to-be dil.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Start a new thread, you will get more participants.


I second that motion.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Why not open a new thread on the topic? I'm sure you'll find plenty of takers on KP.


I was just trying to redirect the conversation away from the name calling and the nasties. I figured if everybody got involved in an issue, we could discuss someTHING instead of someONE.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> You didn't say that you wanted to talk about what is, you asked for proposals for moving forward. Then you raise Agenda 21 which is an absolutely divisive project due to the paranoid conjecture of the far right wing.
> Agenda 21has almost nothing to do with immigration. So there would be no reason for anyone to have thoughts of it brought up by mention of reverting to the system that our government used in the early 20th Century.
> AAMOF, if Agenda 21 is successful there would be less reason for people to migrate from their nation of origin to the US. It would cut back on the desperation that causes people to leave their homes and families.
> 
> ...


Sorry. Never mind.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You are probably right, Poor Purl. 
There are way too many people who won't come to WoW as they are familiar with the boring main topic that is cut and pasted so often.



Poor Purl said:


> Why not open a new thread on the topic? I'm sure you'll find plenty of takers on KP.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Knitanon said:
> 
> 
> > I think that we should revert to the early 20th Century.
> ...


I think the blinking "sarcasm" light on Knitanon's message was broken.

And we don't need immigrants to bring lice in. We have home-grown ones aplenty. Ask anyone who has a young child in school.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I guess you must feel so good about yourself that you have to resort to making fun of someone's AGE? WOW! That's Christian. Also, I guess you must suffer from Alzheimer's because you exhibit the symptoms you attribute to others---anger, rage, fixations, inappropriateness, perseveration (Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi), Obama-this and Obama-that. And you felt bad because someone criticized your hands? If you're going to dish it, you have to be prepared to take it.
> I'm tired of left-leaning people getting all the "credit" for being nasty.


Thanks, cookie, for speaking for me. About this age thing they have, especially LTL. I've often thought that if being old is such a terrible thing in their minds, I would be happy to pray that it never happens to them.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Honestly, I don't think that many of these people even think of what they may say in relation to President Obama's reputation.
> I think they just like that little tingle they get from talking about the salacious rumors that have been spread.
> Just like those Mandingo style stories getting some all aflutter.


This deserves a dozen smilies, but I'll just go with HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> This deserves a dozen smilies, but I'll just go with HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.


Oh seriously, when the gang was all aflutter about that gay high school porn flap (or whatever it was).Do you think they weren't using those chaise lounges for more than the vapors?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My friend's two daughters danced. They attended the Chicago High School For the Arts. I LOVED watching them dance. I went to all of their recitals, even when they were in Chicago. One of them was particularly good in ballet and the other in tap. It was such a joy to watch them. I so longed for a girl so that I could put her in dance. When I finally got one, she wasn't interested in dance. She wanted to play baseball and soccer like her brothers. Alas...


Don't ever expect things from your kids. They will always do the opposite.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Thanks, cookie, for speaking for me. About this age thing they have, especially LTL. I've often thought that if being old is such a terrible thing in their minds, I would be happy to pray that it never happens to them.


BAZINGA!!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> You didn't say that you wanted to talk about what is, you asked for proposals for moving forward. Then you raise Agenda 21 which is an absolutely divisive project due to the paranoid conjecture of the far right wing.
> Agenda 21has almost nothing to do with immigration. So there would be no reason for anyone to have thoughts of it brought up by mention of reverting to the system that our government used in the early 20th Century.
> AAMOF, if Agenda 21 is successful there would be less reason for people to migrate from their nation of origin to the US. It would cut back on the desperation that causes people to leave their homes and families.
> 
> ...


Well put. Both of my grandfathers came to this country to work and send money back to their families in Europe. Eventually their wives and children came over, but it took a few years before that could happen. It was very commonly done in the 1920s and 30s, and I don't think it destroyed this country.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> You are probably right, Poor Purl.
> There are way too many people who won't come to WoW as they are familiar with the boring main topic that is cut and pasted so often.


I think some are just not interested in the fisticuffs.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Gerslay, a sister tapster? (Wait, I think that's someone who makes tapestries.) Isn't it fun?


Absolutely! Though I lost my real tap shoes, I do have a pair of shoes with a hard plastic heel that makes almost the right sound and I can still f-lap, but its a shorter and slower version now.

I've actually been thinking about joining a class, if I can find one called "I used to tap!"


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Oh seriously, when the gang was all aflutter about that gay high school porn flap (or whatever it was).Do you think they weren't using those chaise lounges for more than the vapors?


I hesitate to say. But your mention of Mandingo still has me giggling.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Absolutely! Though I lost my real tap shoes, I do have a pair of shoes with a hard plastic heal that makes almost the right sound and I can still f-lap, but its a shorter and slower version now.
> 
> I've actually been thinking about joining a class, if I can find one called "I used to tap!"


What a great idea. So much more fun that walking a treadmill. And up here, I might just be able to find one.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Well put. Both of my grandfathers came to this country to work and send money back to their families in Europe. Eventually their wives and children came over, but it took a few years before that could happen. It was very commonly done in the 1920s and 30s, and I don't think it destroyed this country.


Thanks, and thanks for taking up the lice thing. We had a very short period of time when the middle class didn't have to deal with lice, it seems. But somewhere between the time that I was growing up and the time I had children that changed. 
I am not sure why, same sized towns, same income levels, it just changed. 
Another thing I will have to look up some day. 
After I check into that Israeli/ UN thing for SQM, maybe I can look that one up and see if I have any luck.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Yup, all of those poor people who are getting snookered into going to work in order to erect the community for the World Cup of 20whatever are doing that to work like sons of guns and send money home to their families. It is a time honored tradition. The Irish did it, the Italians did it. In my hometown the Polish and Greeks did it. 
That is also the reason for living in such close and cramped quarters, just to send more money home.



Poor Purl said:


> Well put. Both of my grandfathers came to this country to work and send money back to their families in Europe. Eventually their wives and children came over, but it took a few years before that could happen. It was very commonly done in the 1920s and 30s, and I don't think it destroyed this country.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Absolutely! Though I lost my real tap shoes, I do have a pair of shoes with a hard plastic heel that makes almost the right sound and I can still f-lap, but its a shorter and slower version now.
> 
> I've actually been thinking about joining a class, if I can find one called "I used to tap!"


Try your local senior center.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Try your local senior center.


That is probably a good idea, maybe she could volunteer to lead a "low impact" tap class.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl wrote:
My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what you want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.


Well Shim Sham Shimmy and Shuffle me off to Buffalo, I'm a tapper too!

BTW , I think her avatar looks more like a toy mobile "out house" than it does a trailer. 

Think she's letting us know that she's so full of crap she needs a pot to poop in wherever she goes.

.AAKnitter

Hmmm, I thought that saying was about NOT having a pot to oh sorry, wrong function.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what you want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.
> 
> Well Shim Sham Shimmy and Shuffle me off to Buffalo, I'm a tapper too!
> ...


My friend Shifra used to give me tap lessons all the time. In fact, the last time I had a lesson we happened to be standing in front of the BART station waiting for my husband to pick us up. We amused the passengers, I'm sure, but nobody threw coins.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Ain't life grand?!


cookiequeen said:


> My friend Shifra used to give me tap lessons all the time. In fact, the last time I had a lesson we happened to be standing in front of the BART station waiting for my husband to pick us up. We amused the passengers, I'm sure, but nobody threw coins.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> My friend Shifra used to give me tap lessons all the time. In fact, the last time I had a lesson we happened to be standing in front of the BART station waiting for my husband to pick us up. We amused the passengers, I'm sure, but nobody threw coins.


Well, as long as they also didn't throw anything but flowers, I'd say you were a hit!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what you want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.
> 
> Well Shim Sham Shimmy and Shuffle me off to Buffalo, I'm a tapper too!
> ...


I think of the toy as a garbage truck. Not as symbolic.

There seems to be a whole chorus line of tappers here.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> My friend Shifra used to give me tap lessons all the time. In fact, the last time I had a lesson we happened to be standing in front of the BART station waiting for my husband to pick us up. We amused the passengers, I'm sure, but nobody threw coins.


The mental picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg tapping in front of the BART station is something else.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My ideas are always evolving but I think that we need to limit immigration as our resources allow. We have a finite number of jobs and a finite amount of money to support immigrants until they get on their feet. The issue with the unaccompanied minors concerns me the most. My gut says we must take care of the children. But there are issues other than the "feel good" ones. First, by accommodating all of these children, we are encouraging the break up of families. Mothers are sending their children off, thinking it is for their good. This cannot be good! It is never good to separate children from their families. Perhaps our resources would be better used to help these children remain with their families. Surely it would cost less than taking in unknown numbers of children and supporting them through adulthood. Second, its great to SAY we should take them in but the real question is WHO should take them in? This would be a huge undertaking. Its not like adopting a little baby. A lot of these kids are troubled. They had to steal to survive. They've lived with death and crime and are most likely immune to it. How do you teach kids who don't speak English and have been exposed to violence all of their lives to live within a society of laws? None of these things would be easy. It takes very special people to do this job. Do we have enough of these people, or are these kids going to be warehoused until they're old enough of any be let loose on society? WHO'S going to do it and how will we pay for it. It's too easy to say, "somebody" will do it. If we're not willing to do it ourselves, do we have the right to expect somebody else to do it? To me, these seem to be imaginary solutions. If we're going to say, we'll keep them, HOW do we do it? We must have a plan before we take them in or we could be making things worse for everyone.
> 
> Next, you MUST look at the job situation. We do not have enough jobs for our own people. If we take in thousands or millions, where does that leave our children and our grandchildren? Will they be able to have a life that remotely resembles ours? Each generation wants more for their children. What are we doing for ours?
> 
> Lastly (for now), HOW will we pay for this? WE'RE BROKE! Do we raise taxes? Cut spending? Eliminate (so called) entitlement programs, such as social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, or healthcare? None of these things are attractive but it is physically impossible to keep spending without paying! With no one to loan us money, we are forced to borrow from the federal reserve. They print the money and "loan" it to us. This is like a tax because it inflates the dollar and reduces our ability to afford the things we need, even food. So before you jump to say we should let everyone in, HOW would you pay for it?


You have some very good point, KNF, And very well expressed. I am going to try to be organized about this. I don't have a lot of time to edit, so please forgive and bare with me. 
1) re. The breaking up of families- these parents are not sending their kids out nonchalantly. This was a last resort. They sent them knowing they faced perils and death, but also aware that if they stayed it could mean certain death. If you were living in a war torn area and there was a peaceful country with many(believed) opportunities, would you not send your child? I know that many parents did just that in Eastern Europe during WWII. 
There would have to be many resources allocating these children's families; if they are even still alive. Do they even know exactly where their families are? Who is going to take them back there? Who is going to pay for them to go back? Many issues need to be considered. 
2) troubled kids- most troubled kids can be helped. Because their brains are still forming, more often than not young people will respond very positively to even just kindness. I'm sure a lot of them are "troubled" because they feel abandoned and alone. I'm sure a lot (especially the very very young ones) believe their parents simply didn't want them any longer. 
Most of the ones who had to steal to survive did it for just that reason- to SURVIVE. If they are in a life or death situation, many of them would not continue doing it. It's like Jean Valjean in Les Miserables. Also, these children are not career criminals. There's no reason they wouldn't be happy to love by the laws of a society which took them in so graciously.
I agree that it does take a special person to reach these kids, but there are MANY people with such qualities. Due to the nature of these qualities, many of them would be happy to work with them. 
3) housing, food, money, etc.-unfortunately, I do not have anything to add on this matter. We are broke. We don't have enough jobs for our citizens. We don't have enough healthcare for our citizens. These are all corporate problems. There are loopholes for corps. To pay less taxes. They have shipped most of our jobs overseas. Health insurance companies are not about "health" or "care", but a bottom line. Once these problems are fixed, the others go away. But I fear it is getting too late and we are in a hole we can't get out of. 
As for the housing specifically, I hope there are people who have the means, ability, and desire to take these children in, knowing that if their children were faced with the same thing, someone would be kind enough to do the same.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'll accept the credit when I'm truly nasty but these folks have used the nasty card too often.



cookiequeen said:


> I guess you must feel so good about yourself that you have to resort to making fun of someone's AGE? WOW! That's Christian. Also, I guess you must suffer from Alzheimer's because you exhibit the symptoms you attribute to others---anger, rage, fixations, inappropriateness, perseveration (Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi), Obama-this and Obama-that. And you felt bad because someone criticized your hands? If you're going to dish it, you have to be prepared to take it.
> I'm tired of left-leaning people getting all the "credit" for being nasty.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Right, because with all the milions of "murdered babies" if even 10% of the women who chose to have abortions regretted it we would be seeing rallies to rival the 1963 March on Washington rather than protests that look like the last move to arrest President Obama. LOL, what DID happen to that? They weren't going to go away until they succeeded, right?


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, sweet on the outside, gooey and cloying on the inside.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: Good one Knitanon.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good idea. Please start a new thread. Thanks.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'd like to get a REAL discussion going. Here's my challenge; if it were up to YOU, what would our immigration policy look like? Be prepared to discuss the logistics of your plan. We can argue about something concrete. Ideas vs individuals or parties. Don't bring politics or parties into it, just your ideas for a perfect immigration policy. Keep in mind that our ideas should evolve as we discuss them. This discussion can include people from any country, as immigration is an issue that affects everyone. Game on! Any takers?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Whoa!

Let's just discuss the issue of unaccompanied children. If they made the trip, chances are good they were helped by their families...paid money ($1000+) They have permission and many have family already in America. I say reunite them and see how many are left. Then we'll address that one. One at a time for me.

And think about the 'troubled kid' remark. We have troubled kids too. It's not like they got cooties from each other. Personal opinion but I have a feeling these kids may be better prepared to work hard. Immigrants from Central America are not infected as much by rampant consumerism. They save money and many send money back 'home' from their small paychecks. They are willing to take any job and work hard at it.

Look at the news. Violent home invasion, death in shoot-outs or from accidents on the highway, drugs are common at every age. This is not Utopia. All kids are exposed to it.

And kids lucky enough to enter a school with English as a second language take advantage of it and thrive.

I'm not saying you're all wrong. You have valid thoughts. It's just a different way of looking at problems and IMHO that's the best way to solve problems. Look at ALL the issues in as many ways as you can.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My ideas are always evolving but I think that we need to limit immigration as our resources allow. We have a finite number of jobs and a finite amount of money to support immigrants until they get on their feet. The issue with the unaccompanied minors concerns me the most. My gut says we must take care of the children. But there are issues other than the "feel good" ones. First, by accommodating all of these children, we are encouraging the break up of families. Mothers are sending their children off, thinking it is for their good. This cannot be good! It is never good to separate children from their families. Perhaps our resources would be better used to help these children remain with their families. Surely it would cost less than taking in unknown numbers of children and supporting them through adulthood. Second, its great to SAY we should take them in but the real question is WHO should take them in? This would be a huge undertaking. Its not like adopting a little baby. A lot of these kids are troubled. They had to steal to survive. They've lived with death and crime and are most likely immune to it. How do you teach kids who don't speak English and have been exposed to violence all of their lives to live within a society of laws? None of these things would be easy. It takes very special people to do this job. Do we have enough of these people, or are these kids going to be warehoused until they're old enough of any be let loose on society? WHO'S going to do it and how will we pay for it. It's too easy to say, "somebody" will do it. If we're not willing to do it ourselves, do we have the right to expect somebody else to do it? To me, these seem to be imaginary solutions. If we're going to say, we'll keep them, HOW do we do it? We must have a plan before we take them in or we could be making things worse for everyone.
> 
> Next, you MUST look at the job situation. We do not have enough jobs for our own people. If we take in thousands or millions, where does that leave our children and our grandchildren? Will they be able to have a life that remotely resembles ours? Each generation wants more for their children. What are we doing for ours?
> 
> Lastly (for now), HOW will we pay for this? WE'RE BROKE! Do we raise taxes? Cut spending? Eliminate (so called) entitlement programs, such as social security, medicare, medicaid, welfare, food stamps, or healthcare? None of these things are attractive but it is physically impossible to keep spending without paying! With no one to loan us money, we are forced to borrow from the federal reserve. They print the money and "loan" it to us. This is like a tax because it inflates the dollar and reduces our ability to afford the things we need, even food. So before you jump to say we should let everyone in, HOW would you pay for it?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I can see their point. Sarah Palin, Ted Cruz, Gov. Perry.



MarilynKnits said:


> I read somewhere that the press is encouraging Michelle Bachmann to run for office again so they don't run out of material for Colbert, Stewart, Maher, Fallon, and their compatriots.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Lice and scabies attack in our schools now. The problem is identified and eradicated regularly.

Vaccination rate has decreased lately. Vaccinations before school should help greatly. (I think flu shots are a good idea too.)



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wouldn't have expected you to say that. But I think that's a great place to start. There have been a lot of criminal immigrants who have just been released on the streets of this country instead of being deported. I think that's a major issue. Even ONE, is too many!
> 
> And health screenings need to take place. I've read that many of these children have lice and scabies. How will we feel when school starts up and our children come home with these things? And what about more serious illness and disease? We're going through a time when our health resources are being rationed. Are we willing to accept less healthcare in order to accommodate more immigrants?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Good thoughts.



Knitanon said:


> The more people there are the more work is needed to feed, transport, clothe, educate, house, and entertain them. It creates more opportunity than it does restrict it.
> Innovative people will create more successful ways to use space, more efficient means of moving people from work to home and school to home.
> An example might be more green roof utilization to feed and control energy consumption.
> The luddites thought that the industrialization of manufacture was the end of production. They were wrong. Every wave of immigrants has been greeted with disdain and cries of too many and they take too much, every time those shouting have been wrong.
> ...


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> I thought your proposal was that we were going to have a discussion free of politics and other contentious barriers to conversation.
> That didn't last long.


I'm tired of this.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I remember shuffle, ball, change and black patent leather tap shoes tied with a bow. Tutu too for ballet.



Gerslay said:


> My tap shoes fit too...shuffle ball change!!!


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> These women are only two examples and may prove to be the exceptions to the rule.


Three examples actually...and that's 50% of the women I've had actual conversations with that were more than just superficial.

One woman did go on to have more children and she had complicated pregnancies attributed to her abortions: placenta previa while carrying and excessive hemorrhaging during delivery that almost cost her her own life, not to lessen the struggle the baby went through.

I think that unless they know that it's a really safe place to express themselves (and I'm not saying that it wasn't a safe place for your friends) that a lot of women just spout the accepted pc side of abortion and don't really tell you the truth about their deepest feelings.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I guess you must feel so good about yourself that you have to resort to making fun of someone's AGE? WOW! That's Christian. Also, I guess you must suffer from Alzheimer's because you exhibit the symptoms you attribute to others---anger, rage, fixations, inappropriateness, perseveration (Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi), Obama-this and Obama-that. And you felt bad because someone criticized your hands? If you're going to dish it, you have to be prepared to take it.
> I'm tired of left-leaning people getting all the "credit" for being nasty.


Nope, just an observation based on experience with Dementia patients. Good try, but why all the anger? When is mentioning concern about sun downing and how to be compassionate to afflicted is unchristian? If you are tired, maybe a nap would be beneficial. Oh Benghazi has totally fallen into the hands of terrorists, what an accomplishment for Obama.


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## theyarnlady (Feb 25, 2011)

KFN,
you ask for opinions.
How would this not work.

Document what country each person is from.

Make a law that require that said countries pay a certain amount for each citzen who enter's this country. They then will be helping to pay for these people entering this country. Although I am sure it will not be enough at least everyone would recieve more help and lesson the burden on our taxes.
If said countries refuse to pay. Then it will be deducted from the aid that country recieves from our country. As we aid most country with money ect. It would be in our best interest to deduct that amount. 

Not a complete solution but at least it will relieve some of the monies we pay in taxes.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Three examples actually...and that's 50% of the women I've had actual conversations with that were more than just superficial.
> 
> One woman did go on to have more children and she had complicated pregnancies attributed to her abortions: placenta previa while carrying and excessive hemorrhaging during delivery that almost cost her her own life, not to lessen the struggle the baby went through.
> 
> I think that unless they know that it's a really safe place to express themselves (and I'm not saying that it wasn't a safe place for your friends) that a lot of women just spout the accepted pc side of abortion and don't really tell you the truth about their deepest feelings.


Maybe women in large urban areas going to college have a different spin on this. Trust me. The many women I have met in my life have married, gone on to have kids and all is well. In my grandmother's day and she was born in the 1890s - her personal doctor would do abortions for her since she had no birth control during her fertile years or just did not know about it. I certainly never saw her suffer. My mom said it was commonplace for the doctors to do it quietly. As I have mentioned before, women have been getting abortions forever and if your theory is correct, millions of women would be incapacitated by it and that certainly in not the case.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, just an observation based on experience with Dementia patients. Good try, but why all the anger? When is mentioning concern about sun downing and how to be compassionate to afflicted is unchristian? If you are tired, maybe a nap would be beneficial. Oh Benghazi has totally fallen into the hands of terrorists, what an accomplishment for Obama.


You aren't the only person who has experience with patients with dementia, you know. All I'm saying is that you seem every bit as angry (even more so) than those you criticize. And to make fun of someone's age is just plain lousy. Don't you hope to be "old" one day or are you checking out sooner? You don't really get it, do you? Making fun of someone for being old or having dementia is terribly unchristian, but you have to rationalize so much that you don't even admit it or recognize it.
Have a blessed Sunday and examine your conscience at church, if you're going.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

theyarnlady said:


> KFN,
> you ask for opinions.
> How would this not work.
> 
> ...


How do we get them to pay?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Cookie - we used to have a member here, very much like you, who would sprout yiddish expressions. Don't we all miss her?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Cookie - we used to have a member here, very much like you, who would sprout yiddish expressions. Don't we all miss her?


She's right here, eating her eggs and kishka.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> You have some very good point, KNF, And very well expressed. I am going to try to be organized about this. I don't have a lot of time to edit, so please forgive and bare with me.
> 1) re. The breaking up of families- these parents are not sending their kids out nonchalantly. This was a last resort. They sent them knowing they faced perils and death, but also aware that if they stayed it could mean certain death. If you were living in a war torn area and there was a peaceful country with many(believed) opportunities, would you not send your child? I know that many parents did just that in Eastern Europe during WWII.
> There would have to be many resources allocating these children's families; if they are even still alive. Do they even know exactly where their families are? Who is going to take them back there? Who is going to pay for them to go back? Many issues need to be considered.
> 2) troubled kids- most troubled kids can be helped. Because their brains are still forming, more often than not young people will respond very positively to even just kindness. I'm sure a lot of them are "troubled" because they feel abandoned and alone. I'm sure a lot (especially the very very young ones) believe their parents simply didn't want them any longer.
> ...


I think you assume too many things. You have no idea how many of these children face perils and death. You assume that the parents feel as you would feel. You assume that these kids are poverty stricken and yet the coyotes charge between 4 and 5 Thousand dollars to transport these kids. How many poverty stricken parents in this country could come up with thousands of dollars? Here in this country, children face "perils of death" living in "war torn" neighborhoods. How would you feel if their parents started sending them off to the "rich" neighborhoods? Would that be any different? Should the rich people take them in?

You say that most troubled kids can be helped because their brains are still forming. I have personal knowledge and experience on this subject. My adopted daughter has Attachment Disorder. She was severely neglected for the first ten months of her life. Are you aware that the brain grows the vast majority of it's connections in the first six months of life? The rest are developed in the second six months of life. That's it! No more! You cannot fix what isn't there. We went from doctor to doctor, trying to help our daughter. Everywhere we went, we heard the same thing. Things were pretty much hopeless unless she could learn to "fake it". She is unable to love, to feel empathy, to care about others, to have a conscience. These parts of her brain didn't develop and can't. So, while certain parts of your brain mature and develop, you can't fix what isn't there.

You also assume that there will be plenty of people willing to do what's necessary for these kids. Believe me! Most of those that do, will have NO idea what's in store for them! It turns your life upside down and makes you think you're living in a nightmare! In our case, this was family! We loved our daughter! We couldn't give up. But I think that most would. It was recommended to us that we just put her in Boystown, as it would be too difficult for us. We never gave up! My daughter has learned to fake it. She never quite fits in. She has a fiance who is fully aware of everything she's been through and loves her in spite of it. She " needs" him but can never really "love" him. So just understand that you can't always "fix" the brain, no matter how much you want to. The brain is hard wired in the first year of life. Real life is nothing like a fictional story.

I also don't think you can assume that the economy is going to improve any time soon. Those with the money aren't someday going to wake up and say, "I'd like to pay more taxes". They OWN the politicians on both sides of the aisle. I don't think things are going to get better until they've gotten much worse. That said, it would be irresponsible to keep taking in children we can't support. We can't just assume that somehow the money will be there. We can't let our own children starve to try and help others. Sometimes, we want to do things because it makes us feel good. But we need to look at the long range picture to discover whether we're really doing good or just trying to feel good. I would gladly take in 100 children if I gave no thought to the reality of the situation. But the reality says I would not be able to provide adequately.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Whoa!
> 
> Let's just discuss the issue of unaccompanied children. If they made the trip, chances are good they were helped by their families...paid money ($1000+) They have permission and many have family already in America. I say reunite them and see how many are left. Then we'll address that one. One at a time for me.
> 
> ...


So, the kids are prepared to work hard. That's great! Where does that leave our children and grandchildren? Sorry kids, no jobs for you! These kids have been better prepared. Where does that leave our economy? Yeah, it's great that they send their money back home to help their families. But our economy is not strong! The only way for an economy to get strong is by people spending the money they've earned. That's what creates new jobs and puts more people to work. The reality of our situation is that everything is going out and nothing is coming in!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

And you assume too much on the negative. 
Just the difference in perspectives, I guess. Good thing my ancesters didn't feel that way in the 17th and 18th centuries, eh?



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you assume too many things. You have no idea how many of these children face perils and death. You assume that the parents feel as you would feel. You assume that these kids are poverty stricken and yet the coyotes charge between 4 and 5 Thousand dollars to transport these kids. How many poverty stricken parents in this country could come up with thousands of dollars? Here in this country, children face "perils of death" living in "war torn" neighborhoods. How would you feel if their parents started sending them off to the "rich" neighborhoods? Would that be any different? Should the rich people take them in?
> 
> You say that most troubled kids can be helped because their brains are still forming. I have personal knowledge and experience on this subject. My adopted daughter has Attachment Disorder. She was severely neglected for the first ten months of her life. Are you aware that the brain grows the vast majority of it's connections in the first six months of life? The rest are developed in the second six months of life. That's it! No more! You cannot fix what isn't there. We went from doctor to doctor, trying to help our daughter. Everywhere we went, we heard the same thing. Things were pretty much hopeless unless she could learn to "fake it". She is unable to love, to feel empathy, to care about others, to have a conscience. These parts of her brain didn't develop and can't. So, while certain parts of your brain mature and develop, you can't fix what isn't there.
> 
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Anon - 17th and 18th centuries?????????? Are you in the DAR?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

damemary said:


> Lice and scabies attack in our schools now. The problem is identified and eradicated regularly.
> 
> Vaccination rate has decreased lately. Vaccinations before school should help greatly. (I think flu shots are a good idea too.)


The truth is that they are never eradicated. There are ALWAYS those who refuse to do what it takes to eradicate. You can't just put stuff on your kid's head and say, "I'm done". You have to wash ALL of the bedding and stuffed animals, bag up pillows and vacuum extremely well. There are those who won't go to the effort so the lice just keep making the rounds. You never get rid of them. Not until your kids move on and are not around those kids anymore. That's just the reality of it!

If you're interested in becoming informed about the reality of vaccines, here's a place to start. Don't believe everything the drug companies tell you.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/06/17/measles-vaccine-failure.aspx?e_cid=20140617Z1_DNL_art_2&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art2&utm_campaign=20140617Z1&et_cid=DM46744&et_rid=556481926


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

theyarnlady said:


> KFN,
> you ask for opinions.
> How would this not work.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll play devil's advocate. 
Why would other countries pay the fee? Theoretically, countries don't want their people to leave, less taxpayers for them. In the current situation, its encouraged because those citizens send money back. It helps those countries economies. If you start charging the other countries, you remove the incentive. How would you track which country paid for which person? The bookkeeping and tracking would cost more than you could bring in. I don't think that any other country would pay anything to allow their people to leave. Another thing, we give money to these countries but its not really to help their people. Its to buy off and control their leaders. If we started deducting from what they get, they're gonna be pi$$ed off and uncooperative. That defeats the purpose to our giving them aid in the first place.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> And you assume too much on the negative.
> Just the difference in perspectives, I guess. Good thing my ancesters didn't feel that way in the 17th and 18th centuries, eh?


The big diffence is that when our ancestors came over, America was booming. Her economy was growing. She needed more people to keep up. That's no longer the case. We are in decline! How can you take more in when you can't provide for those who are already here? The truth is sometimes negative. You cannot solve problems by denying they exist. You must face them head on. Responsible decisions require that we look at all ramifications before we act.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

As I said, a wide divergance in perspective.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The big diffence is that when our ancestors came over, America was booming. Her economy was growing. She needed more people to keep up. That's no longer the case. We are in decline! How can you take more in when you can't provide for those who are already here? The truth is sometimes negative. You cannot solve problems by denying they exist. You must face them head on. Responsible decisions require that we look at all ramifications before we act.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> As I said, a wide divergance in perspective.


Sooooo? What is your perspective on our economy? Do we need more workers? Do we have an abundance of unfilled jobs?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> Whoa!
> 
> Let's just discuss the issue of unaccompanied children. If they made the trip, chances are good they were helped by their families...paid money ($1000+) They have permission and many have family already in America. I say reunite them and see how many are left. Then we'll address that one. One at a time for me.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I wouldn't be in the DAR if they paid people to attend. I am not much of a group person. LOL, if I were I would not be here. 
It is funny how the records from that period work. 
My however many greats grandfathers served for ridiculously short periods several times according to what is published. I suppose they couldn't afford to leave their families for extended periods. 
They would go and serve under so and so for two months, then another commander for four... it is pretty interesting.



SQM said:


> Anon - 17th and 18th centuries?????????? Are you in the DAR?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> Nope, just an observation based on experience with Dementia patients. Good try, but why all the anger? When is mentioning concern about sun downing and how to be compassionate to afflicted is unchristian? If you are tired, maybe a nap would be beneficial. Oh Benghazi has totally fallen into the hands of terrorists, what an accomplishment for Obama.


Would you like a "sarcasm" warning to attach to this?

And where did you see anger in cookiequeen's message? Where she says she's tired of being called nasty by very nasty people? That's not anger; it's disgust.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

duplicate, I think.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sooooo? What is your perspective on our economy? Do we need more workers? Do we have an abundance of unfilled jobs?


I know people who are trying to do hiring in the OK to NE area, Nevada, Iowa... the company cannot find an electrician to work for them because our subsidized oil refining businesses hire all the good ones. 
So yes, we do have plenty of work for people, and if we have more people we have more work. That doesn't change. 
So you tell me, would you? 
How is the economy there? Are the people of Omaha doing a bang up job keeping those restaurants and cupcake specialty shops full? As you drive around are the parking lots for shopping full or empty? 
Are people remodelling their homes? Are the landscapers busy? 
Flooring and tile? From what I hear there is quite a wait to get a talented floofing guy or plumber to come in to do a job. 
Those are all signs of an economy that is thriving. 
So no, I cannot climb on the gloom and doom train. Are there pockets of abysmal performance? 
Does Detroit need to constrict the area they serve? Of course. 
Is the south going to continue to be dirt poor? As long as they accept it, sure. 
Immigrants bring strength, innovation, and enthusiasm. We need that. It is obvious that some of the people who already live here have little faith in the country I call home.

There may be some dupilicates here, I didn't do a true review. I just wanted to show you that many jobs go begging. Everything from minimum wage to specialty jobs that the HB-1 Visa program helps to keep our highly specialized workers from getting. You know those complaints about people having to train their replacements from some other nation? 
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2013/04/10/foreign-worker-visas/2070005/
http://www.cgdev.org/sites/default/files/archive/doc/full_text/CGDBriefs/3120183/time-bound-labor-access.html
http://www.h1base.com/content/h2bvisa
http://www.workpermit.com/us/exchange-trainees-and-interns.htm
http://blog.usa.gov/post/10847287614/how-to-enroll-in-the-u-s-visa-lottery


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

damemary said:


> I remember shuffle, ball, change and black patent leather tap shoes tied with a bow. Tutu too for ballet.


You, too, Dame? Would you do a little soft shoe for us now? The chorus line will back you up.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Speaking of shows that were great. I just LOVED "A Chorus Line".


Poor Purl said:


> You, too, Dame? Would you do a little soft shoe for us now? The chorus line will back you up.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The truth is that they are never eradicated. There are ALWAYS those who refuse to do what it takes to eradicate. You can't just put stuff on your kid's head and say, "I'm done". You have to wash ALL of the bedding and stuffed animals, bag up pillows and vacuum extremely well. There are those who won't go to the effort so the lice just keep making the rounds. You never get rid of them. Not until your kids move on and are not around those kids anymore. That's just the reality of it!
> 
> If you're interested in becoming informed about the reality of vaccines, here's a place to start. Don't believe everything the drug companies tell you.
> http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2014/06/17/measles-vaccine-failure.aspx?e_cid=20140617Z1_DNL_art_2&utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art2&utm_campaign=20140617Z1&et_cid=DM46744&et_rid=556481926


So you admit it's not the immigrant children bringing them in.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Speaking of shows that were great. I just LOVED "A Chorus Line".


I'll agree on that one. But never on all those Andrew Lloyd Webber things. The music in them is all the same.

I think the best musical ever is Kiss Me, Kate (1948). Nobody writes songs that compare to Cole Porter's.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

What? 
No Rodgers and Hammerstein?
There is a small area in Portsmouth, NH called the Strawberry Banke, a park ... Prescott Park. 
The local theater company does an annual show that runs for three or four weeks, I think. For a while they were on a South Pacific, Oklahoma type kick. 
Little Shop of Horrors was one they did pretty well. 
It was a great way to take the kids to the theater without it costing a mint. Usually I depended on the largesse of dear old dad (theirs not mine) for shows in Boston... we went to see Peter Pan with Sandy Duncan. I was more excited than the kids since Mary Martin was an all time favorite. 
I am more than a little excited that NBC is putting on a live show of Peter Pan this fall... Brian Williams daughter, Allison? and Christopher Walken as Capt. Hook! 
Yippee!


Poor Purl said:


> I'll agree on that one. But never on all those Andrew Lloyd Webber things. The music in them is all the same.
> 
> I think the best musical ever is Kiss Me, Kate (1948). Nobody writes songs that compare to Cole Porter's.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> I know people who are trying to do hiring in the OK to NE area, Nevada, Iowa... the company cannot find an electrician to work for them because our subsidized oil refining businesses hire all the good ones.
> So yes, we do have plenty of work for people, and if we have more people we have more work. That doesn't change.
> So you tell me, would you?
> How is the economy there? Are the people of Omaha doing a bang up job keeping those restaurants and cupcake specialty shops full? As you drive around are the parking lots for shopping full or empty?
> ...


Yes! Nebraska's unemployment rate is low, 3.6%. Should we bring in more people so that our unemployment rate could skyrocket like other states? Besides, this is an average. The small towns in Nebraska are hurting. They've had a large influx of illegals and don't have the resources to handle them. The food bank from Omaha delivers food to the entire state. People have to wait for medical services. There is a shortage of housing. Prices have gone up to meet the demand. Jails are filled to overflowing. Small towns are becoming pressure cookers. Soon, they will explode.

Here in Omaha, you'll have a hard time right now finding contractors of any kind, electrical, plumbing, flooring etc because we've had severe hail storms and tornados. This is not uncommon in the Midwest. Don't think that we haven't been hit by the recession, though. We used to have to wait for nearly an hour to get a table at any of the good restaurants. Now, you can walk right in and be seated immediately. The cupcake stores were a fad and are quickly going out of business. People are more focused on needs, not wants. Any business that caters to needs will do well, the others do not. Generally speaking, we are a conservative people. We don't spend money we don't have, and think before we extend ourselves. We don't make promises we can't keep. That's why our economy is doing well. If thousands of illegal immigrants keep pouring into our state, we will not be able to deal with them. Our taxes are already higher than most states.

Our current immigration laws allow for bringing in people with specialized, needed skills. To flood our country with unskilled labor is to spell out our own doom. We must be able to employ our own people before we take in more.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> So you admit it's not the immigrant children bringing them in.


I never said that we don't have these problems already. But in case you didn't know, the illegal immigrants ARE coming into the country with these things. The problem is about to get a LOT worse!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

We are already bringing in temporary immigrants to fill low wage jobs. 
I am sorry, this is just too depressing. As I said before I have faith in my country. To repeatedly read all that is difficult rather than proposals of solutions is not my cuppa. Sorry.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes! Nebraska's unemployment rate is low, 3.6%. Should we bring in more people so that our unemployment rate could skyrocket like other states? Besides, this is an average. The small towns in Nebraska are hurting. They've had a large influx of illegals and don't have the resources to handle them. The food bank from Omaha delivers food to the entire state. People have to wait for medical services. There is a shortage of housing. Prices have gone up to meet the demand. Jails are filled to overflowing. Small towns are becoming pressure cookers. Soon, they will explode.
> 
> Here in Omaha, you'll have a hard time right now finding contractors of any kind, electrical, plumbing, flooring etc because we've had severe hail storms and tornados. This is not uncommon in the Midwest. Don't think that we haven't been hit by the recession, though. We used to have to wait for nearly an hour to get a table at any of the good restaurants. Now, you can walk right in and be seated immediately. The cupcake stores were a fad and are quickly going out of business. People are more focused on needs, not wants. Any business that caters to needs will do well, the others do not. Generally speaking, we are a conservative people. We don't spend money we don't have, and think before we extend ourselves. We don't make promises we can't keep. That's why our economy is doing well. If thousands of illegal immigrants keep pouring into our state, we will not be able to deal with them. Our taxes are already higher than most states.
> 
> Our current immigration laws allow for bringing in people with specialized, needed skills. To flood our country with unskilled labor is to spell out our own doom. We must be able to employ our own people before we take in more.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> soloweygirl
> you mean listening to Faux Entertainment? We happen to be close friends to a couple Ambassadors and they have no complaints about President Obama. We have friends world-wide and get direct, not filtered information, and our President is in very good standing. I know that bugs the Hell out of you and you hope that your negative talks will influence others, it doesn't. Bless you Dear.


Isn't that special. Too bad the only one that believes what you say is you. Even your so called friends have trouble most of the time. The cafeteria that was serving beef tips the other day was in fact serving tongue.

Thanks for the chuckle.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> Would WWIII make you happier? I wonder how much respect they have for the Tea Party? Now or ever? Oh, they have no standing anywhere. Go peddle your opinions elsewhere.


Damemary, you must be pissed off as you are certainly striking back. Calm down. Go back to using the smilies, even Shirley agrees it's a better way to communicate. You two can have a smilies face off. Wouldn't that be a hoot?


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Exactly which person are you talking about? As you know, there have been a few suspensions.


Why Cheeky, LilyK, Conan herself. Who else fit the description?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> What?
> No Rodgers and Hammerstein?
> There is a small area in Portsmouth, NH called the Strawberry Banke, a park ... Prescott Park.
> The local theater company does an annual show that runs for three or four weeks, I think. For a while they were on a South Pacific, Oklahoma type kick.
> ...


Rogers and Hammerstein? Oklahoma is good, but I like the earlier ones by Rogers and Hart.

I took DS to see Peter Pan; can't remember who played Pan. I love the internet: it was Sandy Duncan.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> We are already bringing in temporary immigrants to fill low wage jobs.
> I am sorry, this is just too depressing. As I said before I have faith in my country. To repeatedly read all that is difficult rather than proposals of solutions is not my cuppa. Sorry.


Well, I've been trying yo get you to make proposals. HOW do you propose we PAY for the housing, welfare and food stamps for the people coming in? Don't say that you THINK things will improve. They're coming NOW. How do we pay for them, right now? Are YOU willing to pay for them or are imaginary people going to pay for them?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why Cheeky, LilyK, Conan herself. Who else fit the description?


KPG.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Sure, we saw it while they were getting it ready for NYC. The only other "recent" tour I remember was with Mary Lou Retton, I think.

Just call me Wendy.



Poor Purl said:


> Rogers and Hammerstein? Oklahoma is good, but I like the earlier ones by Rogers and Hart.
> 
> I took DS to see Peter Pan; can't remember who played Pan. I love the internet: it was Sandy Duncan.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I've been trying yo get you to make proposals. HOW do you propose we PAY for the housing, welfare and food stamps for the people coming in? Don't say that you THINK things will improve. They're coming NOW. How do we pay for them, right now? Are YOU willing to pay for them or are imaginary people going to pay for them?


Okay, you're shouting, and you're demanding a solution from someone who can't possibly have all the facts, any more than you can. Please stop pushing. If you start a new thread (why are you so reluctant to do so?), you may find a lot of suggestions.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Recent immigrants don't get housing, welfare, or SNAP benefits. 
And yes, I do know this for a fact. I worked with many, many immigrants who had legitimate needs and could not get benefits from the gov't.

Why would I want to have a conversation with someone who doesn't read what I say or look at links that I post and who just keeps repeating the same things?

We have both said that people are waiting for services. 
The solution to that is to have more people to do the services that people want done.

You know who has to pay, the consumer.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I've been trying yo get you to make proposals. HOW do you propose we PAY for the housing, welfare and food stamps for the people coming in? Don't say that you THINK things will improve. They're coming NOW. How do we pay for them, right now? Are YOU willing to pay for them or are imaginary people going to pay for them?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Sure, we saw it while they were getting it ready for NYC. The only other "recent" tour I remember was with Mary Lou Retton, I think.
> 
> Just call me Wendy.


Not Tinker Bell?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Not Tinker Bell?


Nope, Wendy eventually saw through Peter's schtick.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> She's right here, eating her eggs and kishka.


Kishka... You're eating kishka?! I haven't had that in such a very very long time. It reminds me of my grandpa.... <sigh>.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I'll agree on that one. But never on all those Andrew Lloyd Webber things. The music in them is all the same.
> 
> I think the best musical ever is Kiss Me, Kate (1948). Nobody writes songs that compare to Cole Porter's.


That's one of my favorites, too!! I've seen the play and the movie; both great. Cole porter was one of the greatest artists this world has ever known. His songs are timeless.

I don't know if you saw the move De-lovely (2004) with Kevin Kline and Shelby Judd? It is a "musical" in which they go through cole porters life from the time when he met Linda until his death. In one scene, cole and Linda go to see Night and Day starring Carey grant. This was after Linda had left him and he broke his legs. As they are leaving the cinema, cole asks her "why did she go back to him? Why did you come back?". "She cam back for the music. And so did I." or some such exchange. It has been a few years since I've seen it. The point is, cole porter WAS his music.

I agree about Andrew Lloyd Webber's music. I Grew up during the time of Joseph and starlight express, but I do not listen to any of his albums. I do like Evita and Phantom, though. After those two, the rest do sound the same so I will stick with those. Not my favorites, but entertaining.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Well it looks like this calls for a hunt. Will all the hunters put on your deer-stalker hats and capes and we are going to look for evidence that Slowey actually made public a private PM. The first to post this evidence will get tonight's point. Thank you Ladies.


Did you ever find that post? Just curious.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Did you ever find that post? Just curious.


I don't think so.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's one of my favorites, too!! I've seen the play and the movie; both great. Cole porter was one of the greatest artists this world has ever known. His songs are timeless.
> 
> I don't know if you saw the move De-lovely (2004) with Kevin Kline and Shelby Judd? It is a "musical" in which they go through cole porters life from the time when he met Linda until his death. In one scene, cole and Linda go to see Night and Day starring Carey grant. This was after Linda had left him and he broke his legs. As they are leaving the cinema, cole asks her "why did she go back to him? Why did you come back?". "She cam back for the music. And so did I." or some such exchange. It has been a few years since I've seen it. The point is, cole porter WAS his music.
> 
> I agree about Andrew Lloyd Webber's music. I Grew up during the time of Joseph and starlight express, but I do not listen to any of his albums. I do like Evita and Phantom, though. After those two, the rest do sound the same so I will stick with those. Not my favorites, but entertaining.


Yes, I saw De-Lovely, and it was. But I wasn't aware of how obviously homosexual Porter was. In the Cary Grant movie, he wan't at all. <psst, wasn't it Ashley Judd, not Shelby Judd, who played his wife?>


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> What?
> No Rodgers and Hammerstein?
> There is a small area in Portsmouth, NH called the Strawberry Banke, a park ... Prescott Park.
> The local theater company does an annual show that runs for three or four weeks, I think. For a while they were on a South Pacific, Oklahoma type kick.
> ...


OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! I LOVELOVE LOVE Peter Pan! I remember when NBC broadcasted the original with Mary Martin!! I don't remember exactly when they did, bc we mainly watched it on a recorded video. My sibs and I would also put it on, or as much of it as we could. My lil sis was always nana. I always wanted to be Peter Pan. I still sing to dh "I Wong grow up..." Lol.

South Pacific and other Rogers and Hammerstein musicals are wonderful. I guess Cinderella was recently on Broadway. My bro said it was very good. On a youth group trip, we saw South Pacific in Vancouver in an outdoor theater. It was quite a show.

What about Stephen Sondheim? I so do love his shows. Into the woods is Fantastic, among others.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe women in large urban areas going to college have a different spin on this. Trust me. The many women I have met in my life have married, gone on to have kids and all is well. In my grandmother's day and she was born in the 1890s - her personal doctor would do abortions for her since she had no birth control during her fertile years or just did not know about it. I certainly never saw her suffer. My mom said it was commonplace for the doctors to do it quietly. As I have mentioned before, women have been getting abortions forever and if your theory is correct, millions of women would be incapacitated by it and that certainly in not the case.


I'm not arguing with you, I'm just reporting my experience with women who've had abortions. And I too am talking about large urban areas...unless you think Boston/Cambridge/DC is the sticks.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I saw De-Lovely, and it was. But I wasn't aware of how obviously homosexual Porter was. In the Cary Grant movie, he wan't at all. <psst, wasn't it Ashley Judd, not Shelby Judd, who played his wife?>


Stupid autocorrect. Yes it WAS Ashley Judd. I don't even know who Shelby Judd is. Geezo, NC, get it together!

There is a Library and Gardens out here that has the Linda Porter rose. That's always been one of my favorites.

Night and day did not portray this side of Cole. But remember, it was a very different time. Wasn't Marriage suggested to (forced upon) Rock Hudson in order to "cure" him?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> I'm not arguing with you, I'm just reporting my experience with women who've had abortions. And I too am talking about large urban areas...unless you think Boston/Cambridge/DC is the sticks.


If so I lived in the sticks for 10 years - Harvard Square.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> If so I lived in the sticks for 10 years - Harvard Square.


Well of course, sloths always live in the sticks!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Well, yes. Nice little sticks, perhaps. 
Are you actually comparing either to Chicago and NYC?



Gerslay said:


> I'm not arguing with you, I'm just reporting my experience with women who've had abortions. And I too am talking about large urban areas...unless you think Boston/Cambridge/DC is the sticks.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Poor Purl wrote:
> My tap shoes fit, if that's what you mean. Actually, the nice thing about being grown up (or old, if you choose) is that you get to do what you want, not what other people want you to do. That includes playing with toys.
> 
> Well Shim Sham Shimmy and Shuffle me off to Buffalo, I'm a tapper too!
> ...


Oh Janet you are just so funny. To think that a simple avatar picture would bring out your humorous side. I'm sure the Lego people would appreciate the fact that their toys are able to bring such enjoyment after all these years.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I don't think it was to cure him, I believe it was to protect him.



Natureschampion said:


> Stupid autocorrect. Yes it WAS Ashley Judd. I don't even know who Shelby Judd is. Geezo, NC, get it together!
> 
> There is a Library and Gardens out here that has the Linda Porter rose. That's always been one of my favorites.
> 
> Night and day did not portray this side of Cole. But remember, it was a very different time. Wasn't Marriage suggested to (forced upon) Rock Hudson in order to "cure" him?


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> How do we get them to pay?


As Yarnie said, by deducting it from the amount we give them in aid if they don't pay.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> damemary I see that the tidy righties have taken on the role of judge, jury and executioner especially when it comes to their own kind, other women. How on earth would they know why a woman has an abortion and if it is moral or immoral unless they have had one themselves. What happened to the admonition of judge not lest you be judged. Obviously, they don't know the meaning of those words. I thought those decisions were to be left to a higher power but once again they "know it all" when in fact they know nothing. They would be wiser to speak from their own personal experience than to sound stupid by expressing their uneducated and unenlightened personal opinions. Obviously, that's all they have got and it sure isn't much.


It is so necessary for women's health care issues, including whether or not to choose an abortion, should be depoliticized and seen as a personal medical issue private to the woman and her health care provider. The politicizing of issues such as this which excite religious fervor goes against the separation of church and state. The only laws regarding abortion should be the same as laws regarding appendectomies or gall bladder surgery and protect the patient from factors such as medical incompetence and the danger of infection.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> It is so necessary for women's health care issues, including whether or not to choose an abortion, should be depoliticized and seen as a personal medical issue private to the woman and her health care provider. The politicizing of issues such as this which excite religious fervor goes against the separation of church and state. The only laws regarding abortion should be the same as laws regarding appendectomies or gall bladder surgery and protect the patient from factors such as medical incompetence and the danger of infection.


Yup, don't like abortion, don't have one.


----------



## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you assume too many things. You have no idea how many of these children face perils and death. You assume that the parents feel as you would feel. You assume that these kids are poverty stricken and yet the coyotes charge between 4 and 5 Thousand dollars to transport these kids. How many poverty stricken parents in this country could come up with thousands of dollars? Here in this country, children face "perils of death" living in "war torn" neighborhoods. How would you feel if their parents started sending them off to the "rich" neighborhoods? Would that be any different? Should the rich people take them in?
> 
> You say that most troubled kids can be helped because their brains are still forming. I have personal knowledge and experience on this subject. My adopted daughter has Attachment Disorder. She was severely neglected for the first ten months of her life. Are you aware that the brain grows the vast majority of it's connections in the first six months of life? The rest are developed in the second six months of life. That's it! No more! You cannot fix what isn't there. We went from doctor to doctor, trying to help our daughter. Everywhere we went, we heard the same thing. Things were pretty much hopeless unless she could learn to "fake it". She is unable to love, to feel empathy, to care about others, to have a conscience. These parts of her brain didn't develop and can't. So, while certain parts of your brain mature and develop, you can't fix what isn't there.
> 
> ...


Very well said. It's definitely something for those in favor of allowing these illegal immigrants to stay to think long and hard about. Especially the reason parents are sending their children here, allowing them to go through that journey from hell. The older children are telling a different story than what the WH and politicians are telling.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You described her perfectly, Huck! Like telling the emperor he has no clothes or "pride goeth before the fall". She has an ego as big as a blimp and all the hot air coming out of her mouth keeps that giant head bouncing up there. What an amusing site. Maybe, one of her friends should tell her how foolish she looks or are they all too afraid. We know how nasty she can be when she is PO'd. :hunf:


I guess when she gets her leather bustier, fishnet hosiery, and knee high spike heeled boots on, then brandishes her whip, she can get pretty scary!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm baaaaack! Hi everybody. Did you miss me? We just spent a week in the Black Hills. We climbed the rocks and hiked along a stream. But mostly we just sat and soaked up the beautiful scenery. It was awesome. The temps were perfect. No rain. We had been planning to come back tomorrow but we were all (6 of us) exhausted and decided to have a couple of days to recover.
> 
> I got a lot of knitting done.  I'm knitting slippers for my daughter, dils, sister and nieces, etc... for Christmas. I found a cool pattern in a magazine. It has a cable up the top of the foot and a big cuff. I finished three pairs, eight more to go. Its a fun, easy pattern but I'm sure I'll get tired of it.
> 
> ...


Welcome back.

Mazel Tov! Hope their joy with each other continues into silly old age.

As long as you have skivvies for the next week, laundry can wait until you wind down. Save your energy to dance at the wedding.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for sharing your opinion. I'll play devil's advocate.
> Why would other countries pay the fee? Theoretically, countries don't want their people to leave, less taxpayers for them. In the current situation, its encouraged because those citizens send money back. It helps those countries economies. If you start charging the other countries, you remove the incentive. How would you track which country paid for which person? The bookkeeping and tracking would cost more than you could bring in. I don't think that any other country would pay anything to allow their people to leave. Another thing, we give money to these countries but its not really to help their people. Its to buy off and control their leaders. If we started deducting from what they get, they're gonna be pi$$ed off and uncooperative. That defeats the purpose to our giving them aid in the first place.


The information supplied to our custom and border patrol personnel would give that information (as best as they could). Their gov't officials rely on this money to line their pockets. If it stops coming in, then they will stop the flow of their citizens out of their country. Chances are good that the money from the US is more than what their people would pay in taxes.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Who respects him? Putin, Israel, N. Korea, China? When was the last time your looked 2009?


And enough fellow American citizens to reelect him. And he didn't need sneaky underhanded games with hanging chads to get reelected.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> I don't think so.


Hint: It doesn't exist. You can take off your hunting gear.


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> This behavior is what the world is watching and the LWN's say Obama hasn't lost respect from the world's leaders. A good solid majority of our country knows that Obama has lost respect. This group is still drinking the kool-aid.


The kool-aid is yesterday's news,solowey. That seems to be one of your big problem as a tidy righty that you are all living in the past and I mean way back past. Not months but you are years behind. If you think Putin is so wonderful I wish you and the rest of your friends would all seek asylum in Russia. He would love to have you as your philosophy and politics are just like his.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Cute and funny remains to be seen. I certainly haven't seen it yet.


Possibly because your head is shoved someplace where there is no visibility?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

maysmom said:


> But they're CHRISTIANS!!


and your point is? Just having fun with you maysmom! Christians, my eyeball. They think Putin and Hamas are the good guys and Obama should be worried because "they" don't like him. 
Pleaseeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Possibly because your head is shoved someplace where there is no visibility?


Oh where the sun don't shine and I don't mean in the pines? I don't think she can get it out of there, Marilyn. :lol:


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Too tight?


Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh where the sun don't shine and I don't mean in the pines? I don't think she can get it out of there, Marilyn. :lol:


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, don't like abortion, don't have one.


Amen, Knitanon. The government has no business even being involved. I'm prolife and that is why I am prochoice. Only I have the right to chose what is right for me.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I wouldn't have expected you to say that. But I think that's a great place to start. There have been a lot of criminal immigrants who have just been released on the streets of this country instead of being deported. I think that's a major issue. Even ONE, is too many!
> 
> And health screenings need to take place. I've read that many of these children have lice and scabies. How will we feel when school starts up and our children come home with these things? And what about more serious illness and disease? We're going through a time when our health resources are being rationed. Are we willing to accept less healthcare in order to accommodate more immigrants?


In my grandparents immigration generation, a big concern was tuberculosis, which was contagious and incurable at the time. Immigrants were checked and screened, and the healthy ones were welcomed and the unhealthy ones sent back to wherever they sailed from. Immigrants were mostly received at Castle Garden then Ellis Island. Now with international flights terminating at so many US destinations, there would have to be some sort of logistics set up to check for communicable diseases. The present Ebola situation is particularly frightening.

Also, with my grandparents generation, immigrants had to have some sort of sponsor who took responsibility for them having a place to live and not be dependent upon public welfare. Jewish and Catholic immigrants had charities which helped them if there were no personal sponsor. I know for sure of HIAS, The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society that served that function.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Gerslay said:


> Well of course, sloths always live in the sticks!


I do love you Gers - funny lady. Are you like my Evil Republican Twin - fiscally conservative and socially liberal? If you answer, PM it. I don't want you to lose fans here should you give the wrong answer.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Well, yes. Nice little sticks, perhaps.
> Are you actually comparing either to Chicago and NYC?


I would. You go to Boston/Cambridge. How is the Square? I lived right in it for 8 years.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Well put. Both of my grandfathers came to this country to work and send money back to their families in Europe. Eventually their wives and children came over, but it took a few years before that could happen. It was very commonly done in the 1920s and 30s, and I don't think it destroyed this country.


Before that, too. My husband's grandfather came in 1905 and brought Nana and the two children here in 1906. My own grandfather came in 1903 and sent money back to Minsk to bring his widowed mother and two young sisters here.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Okay, you're shouting, and you're demanding a solution from someone who can't possibly have all the facts, any more than you can. Please stop pushing. If you start a new thread (why are you so reluctant to do so?), you may find a lot of suggestions.


In case you weren't aware, shouting is when a whole statement is in caps. The use of caps for individual words, is meant as emphasis.

I wasn't "demanding" a solution. I was trying to make her realize that good intentions aren't enough. We need to be able to support more people BEFORE we allow them in.

I didn't start a new thread because I didn't want to. My point in suggesting discussion was to give us something to talk about rather than name calling and insults. It seemed a more constructive thing to do. Silly me!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> That is probably a good idea, maybe she could volunteer to lead a "low impact" tap class.


Our senior center has a dance troupe that entertains at nursing homes and other senior centers. The girls really kick up their heels.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

"Wasn't Marriage suggested to (forced upon) Rock Hudson in order to "cure" him?"

Certainly you could not be a leading man in old Hollywood if it were known you were gay. There were tons of "Hollywood Marriages". My favorites are Spencer and Kathryn. He was gay, she was a Lesbian. They used Catholicism as their reasons for never marrying. I have to assume that his wife was also part of the Hollywood deal. Second favorite - Elsa Maxwell and Charles Laughton. That was a surprise. Cary Grant????? The love of his life was Randolph Scott. Who else??? My biggest shocker was Danny Kaye and Laurence Olivier. 

Spell Check has gotten smarter. Has anyone else noticed that?


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Show me a picture of you in a mini-skirt and I'll agree with you, O'Cheeky one, but until then you of all people shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age!


You are the one telling people to act their age and with proper decorum. From your posts you come across as if you are a very old and stodgy woman who thinks she knows all about all the women on the left. You haven't a clue about any of us or our physical appearance and why do you care anyway? Strange some of the things you bring up but strange does define a lot of the behavior on the right in recent years. Even those of you who maybe younger seem locked into a very stifling time warp dating 50 years or more ago that you can't seem to free yourselves from. So sad for you. You even long for the cold war era and the return of the Soviet Union and prefer Putin and Russia to an American democracy. You certainly are not anyone who loves the United States. We on the left are the true patriots, not you.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> How do we get them to pay?


The idea of applying the foreign aid we send to help support the immigrants that we receive rather than sending the funds to the country makes sense. I imagine it could be workable.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

If you lived in Boston/Cambridge you must know the relationship of population to Chicagoland and NYC. 
How many people in Cambridge and how many in Chicago?



SQM said:


> I would. You go to Boston/Cambridge. How is the Square? I lived right in it for 8 years.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why Cheeky, LilyK, Conan herself. Who else fit the description?


Ooh, your porta potty is cute. Is it a Matchbox replica or the real thing"

Are you so full of it that you have to tow your personal porta potty along wherever you go?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Sure, we saw it while they were getting it ready for NYC. The only other "recent" tour I remember was with Mary Lou Retton, I think.
> 
> Just call me Wendy.


I thought it was Kathy Rigby.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Show me a picture of you in a mini-skirt and I'll agree with you, O'Cheeky one, but until then you of all people shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age!


Oh gerslay, Why "me of all people" shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age. You have no idea my age or my appearance. All I know about you is what is in your posts and you come across as a no fun stick in the mud. Your problem not mine.
Are Christian women such as yourself supposed to be concerned about how other women look in any form of attire? Seems rather odd doesn't it???? :hunf:


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> You are the one telling people to act their age and with proper decorum. From your posts you come across as if you are a very old and stodgy woman who thinks she knows all about all the women on the left. You haven't a clue about any of us or our physical appearance and why do you care anyway? Strange some of the things you bring up but strange does define a lot of the behavior on the right in recent years. Even those of you who maybe younger seem locked into a very stifling time warp dating 50 years or more ago that you can't seem to free yourselves from. So sad for you. You even long for the cold war era and the return of the Soviet Union and prefer Putin and Russia to an American democracy. You certainly are not anyone who loves the United States. We on the left are the true patriots, not you.


O'Cheeky, you've been posting that very same message for a couple of years: I haven't a clue who the women are on the left - I'm in a time warp - I long for the return of the cold war - I'm not a true patriot...blah, blah, blah! Really, O'Cheeky one, you're repeating yourself ad nauseum; you must try to think up some new material!


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Ooh, your porta potty is cute. Is it a Matchbox replica or the real thing"
> 
> Are you so full of it that you have to tow your personal porta potty along wherever you go?


Oh, that explains it. Thanks, Marilyn!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh gerslay, Why "me of all people" shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age. You have no idea my age or my appearance. All I know about you is what is in your posts and you come across as a no fun stick in the mud. Your problem not mine.
> Are Christian women such as yourself supposed to be concerned about how other women look in any form of attire? Seems rather odd doesn't it???? :hunf:


You insulted me three times before I said a word to you. If you can't take it, don't start it!


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> If you lived in Boston/Cambridge you must know the relationship of population to Chicagoland and NYC.
> How many people in Cambridge and how many in Chicago?


It isn't the "numbers" that I am thinking of; it is the quality of those numbers that make all those cities comparable.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> O'Cheeky, you've been posting that very same message for a couple of years: I haven't a clue who the women are on the left - I'm in a time warp - I long for the return of the cold war - I'm not a true patriot...blah, blah, blah! Really, O'Cheeky one, you're repeating yourself ad nauseum; you must try to think up some new material!


Poor pitiful Gerslay. She is being picked on. You know what they say,"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen." and you can't even keep up dear. I'll leave you alone for now. Cool off and catch your breath so you don't get the vapors. Poor thing. :XD:


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Ooh, your porta potty is cute. Is it a Matchbox replica or the real thing"
> 
> Are you so full of it that you have to tow your personal porta potty along wherever you go?


Bathroom humor always makes me laugh. Ha!


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!! I LOVELOVE LOVE Peter Pan! I remember when NBC broadcasted the original with Mary Martin!! I don't remember exactly when they did, bc we mainly watched it on a recorded video. My sibs and I would also put it on, or as much of it as we could. My lil sis was always nana. I always wanted to be Peter Pan. I still sing to dh "I Wong grow up..." Lol.
> 
> South Pacific and other Rogers and Hammerstein musicals are wonderful. I guess Cinderella was recently on Broadway. My bro said it was very good. On a youth group trip, we saw
> 
> ...


And Judy Collins singing anything by Sondheim. She would be right at home here with Send in the Clowns.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, don't like abortion, don't have one.


Exactly, but don't tell other women what to do. We can't know all the nuances of another person's situation.


----------



## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> You insulted me three times before I said a word to you. If you can't take it, don't start it!


Take a break, dear. You can't even count any more you are so distraught . . . and don't flatter yourself either you Putin/Hamas backer you. :thumbdown:


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Poor pitiful Gerslay. She is being picked on. You know what they say,"If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen." and you can't even keep up dear. I'll leave you alone for now. Cool off and catch your breath so you don't get the vapors. Poor thing. :XD:


Now you're even repeating me! Maybe you need a nap!


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## Cheeky Blighter (Nov 20, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> And Judy Collins singing anything by Sondheim. She would be right at home here with Send in the Clowns.


Yes, we need a little night music and some levity!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You may be right. I could only picture that thick neck and wonder how that fit with Peter Pan.



MarilynKnits said:


> I thought it was Kathy Rigby.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathy_Rigby

And yes, she owned the performance I would say, over 3000 shows.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Am I mistaken or does HIAS focus on refugees. I do know that they are working to have the claims of the children coming in now looked at very seriously. Many of these kids are refugees not immigrants.



MarilynKnits said:


> In my grandparents immigration generation, a big concern was tuberculosis, which was contagious and incurable at the time. Immigrants were checked and screened, and the healthy ones were welcomed and the unhealthy ones sent back to wherever they sailed from. Immigrants were mostly received at Castle Garden then Ellis Island. Now with international flights terminating at so many US destinations, there would have to be some sort of logistics set up to check for communicable diseases. The present Ebola situation is particularly frightening.
> 
> Also, with my grandparents generation, immigrants had to have some sort of sponsor who took responsibility for them having a place to live and not be dependent upon public welfare. Jewish and Catholic immigrants had charities which helped them if there were no personal sponsor. I know for sure of HIAS, The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society that served that function.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Am I mistaken or does HIAS focus on refugees. I do know that they are working to have the claims of the children coming in now looked at very seriously. Many of these kids are refugees not immigrants.


May have segued to refugees now. It was immigrants back in the last century.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I never said that we don't have these problems already. But in case you didn't know, the illegal immigrants ARE coming into the country with these things. The problem is about to get a LOT worse!


Knitter from Nebraska
why all this negativity all the time? My glass is always half full while yours half empty. I like mine much better. Worry less, you get fewer wrinkles. You never seem to see what power we have to make positive changes, everything is bleak in your future it seems. Lighten up for your sake.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Cheeky Blighter said:


> Oh gerslay, Why "me of all people" shouldn't be talking about other people's looks or age. You have no idea my age or my appearance. All I know about you is what is in your posts and you come across as a no fun stick in the mud. Your problem not mine.
> Are Christian women such as yourself supposed to be concerned about how other women look in any form of attire? Seems rather odd doesn't it???? :hunf:


Cheeky Blighter
just think how they would view Jesus these days. A sloppy Hippie or worse.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Here is one of my faves. 







Cheeky Blighter said:


> Yes, we need a little night music and some levity!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Recent immigrants don't get housing, welfare, or SNAP benefits.
> And yes, I do know this for a fact. I worked with many, many immigrants who had legitimate needs and could not get benefits from the gov't.
> 
> Why would I want to have a conversation with someone who doesn't read what I say or look at links that I post and who just keeps repeating the same things?
> ...


Technically, federal law says that "legal" immigrants must have been in this country for five years before they are eligible. But the federal government has aided and abetted the unlawful use of food stamps by declaring that the people don't have to show immigration status. Our government even colludes with the Mexican government to encourage illegal aliens to sign up for food stamps.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-uncovers-usda-records-sponsoring-u-s-food-stamp-program-for-illegal-aliens/

That isn't even taking into consideration, those who steal or purchase a false identity. Nor does it consider that some states offer benefits to illegal aliens outside of the federal government. Heres an interesting article that compares the use of benefits between the immigrant and native population. http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011

You say, "The solution to that is to have more people to do the services that people want done. You know who has to pay, the consumer.". I don't understand what you mean. When people cross the border with no money to support themselves, do " we, the consumer" pay? Or do the taxpayers pay? The latest figure I've heard for unaccompanied minors entering this country this year, is 60,000. Will we, the consumer pay to support and raise this children? Food, housing, foster care services, education, medical care, psychological care etc... I would just like ONE person who thinks this is a good idea, to tell me HOW we're supposed to pay for it.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> why all this negativity all the time? My glass is always half full while yours half empty. I like mine much better. Worry less, you get fewer wrinkles. You never seem to see what power we have to make positive changes, everything breaks down in our Life it seems. Lighten up for your sake.


Things are on the way to getting much better, we finally have a president who is going to make many of the ridiculous and excessive prison sentences go away, not fast enough and not for enough people, still it is a beginning. 
Various law enforcement is just beginning to see how far we have to go with adjustments of inequities in arrests and what we laughingly refer to as a justice system. 
We have people who need care; there are veterans who need help, there are Boomers who are going to need assistants in growing numbers. Who is going to do that work?


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You asked for plans for the future. 
Trying to carry on a discussion with you is much too much like trying to nail jello to the wall or whatever that saying is. 
I am done. Pulling up wackadoodle websites does nothing for me. 
I tried to be polite about wanting to drop the subject, that didn't work. No more. Thanks anyway.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Technically, federal law says that "legal" immigrants must have been in this country for five years before they are eligible. But the federal government has aided and abetted the unlawful use of food stamps by declaring that the people don't have to show immigration status. Our government even colludes with the Mexican government to encourage illegal aliens to sign up for food stamps.
> http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-uncovers-usda-records-sponsoring-u-s-food-stamp-program-for-illegal-aliens/
> 
> That isn't even taking into consideration, those who steal or purchase a false identity. Nor does it consider that some states offer benefits to illegal aliens outside of the federal government. Heres an interesting article that compares the use of benefits between the immigrant and native population. http://cis.org/immigrant-welfare-use-2011
> ...


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Welcome back.
> 
> Mazel Tov! Hope their joy with each other continues into silly old age.
> 
> As long as you have skivvies for the next week, laundry can wait until you wind down. Save your energy to dance at the wedding.


Thanks, Marilyn! I finished the laundry. I tend to like wearing more than skivvies. Ahahahaha! I'm wondering if there'll even be dancing at this wedding? How much can you put together in a week?  I suspect that it will be a small ceremony with family and close friends only. I can't imagine setting up a wingding in Alliance, Nebraska in one week. We'll see. I'm very happy to welcome this woman and her three kids into our family. We love them already! We'll find a way to celebrate.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The information supplied to our custom and border patrol personnel would give that information (as best as they could). Their gov't officials rely on this money to line their pockets. If it stops coming in, then they will stop the flow of their citizens out of their country. Chances are good that the money from the US is more than what their people would pay in taxes.


Are you suggesting that illegal aliens will stop and "check in" at the border? Keeping track of them would be a nightmare of accounting, IMO.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Knitter from Nebraska -- I'm looking for your new thread on Immigration.


Then perhaps you didn't read my explanation for bringing it up in the first place. I don't want to follow another thread. I don't have enough time to keep up with one.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> In my grandparents immigration generation, a big concern was tuberculosis, which was contagious and incurable at the time. Immigrants were checked and screened, and the healthy ones were welcomed and the unhealthy ones sent back to wherever they sailed from. Immigrants were mostly received at Castle Garden then Ellis Island. Now with international flights terminating at so many US destinations, there would have to be some sort of logistics set up to check for communicable diseases. The present Ebola situation is particularly frightening.
> 
> Also, with my grandparents generation, immigrants had to have some sort of sponsor who took responsibility for them having a place to live and not be dependent upon public welfare. Jewish and Catholic immigrants had charities which helped them if there were no personal sponsor. I know for sure of HIAS, The Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society that served that function.


I find the Ebola situation concerning also. I was surprised to hear that they brought in the two people with Ebola. These were a doctor and his aid(?). One has to assume that they were taking necessary precautions but got it anyway. No system is failsafe. Not to mention, people trying to leave those countries due to fear of contagion. The death rate of Ebola is up to 90%. Scary!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I think you assume too many things. You have no idea how many of these children face perils and death. You assume that the parents feel as you would feel. You assume that these kids are poverty stricken and yet the coyotes charge between 4 and 5 Thousand dollars to transport these kids. How many poverty stricken parents in this country could come up with thousands of dollars? Here in this country, children face "perils of death" living in "war torn" neighborhoods. How would you feel if their parents started sending them off to the "rich" neighborhoods? Would that be any different? Should the rich people take them in?
> 
> You say that most troubled kids can be helped because their brains are still forming. I have personal knowledge and experience on this subject. My adopted daughter has Attachment Disorder. She was severely neglected for the first ten months of her life. Are you aware that the brain grows the vast majority of it's connections in the first six months of life? The rest are developed in the second six months of life. That's it! No more! You cannot fix what isn't there. We went from doctor to doctor, trying to help our daughter. Everywhere we went, we heard the same thing. Things were pretty much hopeless unless she could learn to "fake it". She is unable to love, to feel empathy, to care about others, to have a conscience. These parts of her brain didn't develop and can't. So, while certain parts of your brain mature and develop, you can't fix what isn't there.
> 
> ...


They did face perils and death when their parents left them in the hands of coyotes in order to get them across a desert and drug-lord territory. I don't ASSUME that parents feel the way I would feel. I KNOW that there is an inherent need for our genes (offspring) to survive. I also KNOW that a majority of mothers cannot bear to part with their children; that losing a child for whatever reason is the hardest thing in the world. I hope you never have to suffer that. You are assuming that the coyotes charged that much, and that the parents didn't pay in some other trade. The children here may live in gang territories, but they hardly live in war torn areas. There is death and destructions, yes. Manny kids don't have a choice but to join a gang. But these are street gangs. Most kids have/had a chance to get out (when there was more money for social and athletic youth programs). There is a social and educational vicious cyle that is societies doing. Still, hardly war torn. There are a lot of issues that I am more than aware of and am empathetic too. The kids here can't be forgotten. But just bc we have suffering kids here, it doesn't negate others'. And the parents here DO send their kids off to "rich neighborhoods" when the kids have an opportunity for a better life. It happens with athletics all the time. I applaud these parents, or at least the ones who make sure the kids are there for an education as well.

I am sorry to hear about your daughter. My heart goes out to you. I am aware of her condition, and that the first year of an infants life is crucial. This happens to many kids who come from the orphanages in Russia and the Ukraine. I know many people who have kids with attachment disorder and other physical and psychological issues that come with their background. thHowever, going based on YOUR assumption that they want to be reunited with their families, they do not suffer from this. Also bc they came from famines. They were most likely not abused and neglected from birth. Their crucial time period for that development has passed. It would be almost statistically impossible for all the kids in all the age groups to suffer from attachment disorder.

I'm sorry, I prefer to think and see the best in people. History shows that at least when it comes to children, the individual will generally do the "right thing." I'm also not going based on fiction or a fairy tale. I know these things from psychological and sociological studies. And anectodal evidence.

I did not assume the economy was going to fix itself at all, or to house these kids based on that assumption. The economy won't fix itself until we hold corporations and the politicians they own accountable. It doesn't look like we will in the near future, so I am not holding my breath. The money won't be there and the children are starving bc COL expenses are so high. Natural food is the most expensive. This isn't the economy. This is corporate greed. OIR children don't need to starve bc the other kids are or aren't there. We wouldn't be taking food out of American children's mouths to feed the immigrant children. We take food out of the children who need it's mouths in order to give it to families who would rather buy a brand new car than pay for their groceries. There are plenty of our own people taking advantage of the system while others who need it aren't getting it. This means we need to fix the system. Maybe with regards to other immigrants we should take this into consideration, but I think this is a special case.

We have so many things we have to fix in this country in order to better ourselves. But we were founded as a country who open it's doors to people who were suffering (I.e. Those escaping religious persecution). We have not always held true to that, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't now.

I understand your concerns for the "who" and "what" of things. I have the same concerns. This is why I do not have a solution, I just know we can't turn our backs on them.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> why all this negativity all the time? My glass is always half full while yours half empty. I like mine much better. Worry less, you get fewer wrinkles. You never seem to see what power we have to make positive changes, everything is bleak in your future it seems. Lighten up for your sake.


Oh, Huck! WHERE did you get those lovely rose colored glasses?  I'll have to look into getting a pair.

I'm a realist. I see things as they are, not as they could be. I actually worry very little. These things are not in my control. That doesn't mean that I pretend they don't exist. IMO, you have to acknowledge a problem before you can fix it. Without acknowledgement, nothing changes.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Ebola is spread by bodily fluids, it is spread by means simiilar to HIV. People make mistakes and something that is contagious spreads. 
From what I understand Ebola is expected to be treated well in clean, modern facilities. 
Just as with HIV people can live and live well when following universal precautions. 
http://www.healthline.com/health/ebola-hemorrhagic-fever#Getting Help7



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I find the Ebola situation concerning also. I was surprised to hear that they brought in the two people with Ebola. These were a doctor and his aid(?). One has to assume that they were taking necessary precautions but got it anyway. No system is failsafe. Not to mention, people trying to leave those countries due to fear of contagion. The death rate of Ebola is up to 90%. Scary!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> You asked for plans for the future.
> Trying to carry on a discussion with you is much too much like trying to nail jello to the wall or whatever that saying is.
> I am done. Pulling up wackadoodle websites does nothing for me.
> I tried to be polite about wanting to drop the subject, that didn't work. No more. Thanks anyway.


It couldn't possibly be because you couldn't answer any of my challenges, could it? That's OK. I understand your limitations. You can't come up with a way to pay for it, because there isn't one.

The point of my original challenge was to get people to think, to discuss the pros and con's of anyone's ideas. I guess its not possible to do. (BTW, you didn't really come off as polite.)


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There's your woman who claims to always be kind.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It couldn't possibly be because you couldn't answer any of my challenges, could it? That's OK. I understand your limitations. You can't come up with a way to pay for it, because there isn't one.
> 
> The point of my original challenge was to get people to think, to discuss the pros and con's of anyone's ideas. I guess its not possible to do. (BTW, you didn't really come off as polite.)


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Here is one of my faves.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> You aren't the only person who has experience with patients with dementia, you know. All I'm saying is that you seem every bit as angry (even more so) than those you criticize. And to make fun of someone's age is just plain lousy. Don't you hope to be "old" one day or are you checking out sooner? You don't really get it, do you? Making fun of someone for being old or having dementia is terribly unchristian, but you have to rationalize so much that you don't even admit it or recognize it.
> Have a blessed Sunday and examine your conscience at church, if you're going.


I have not made fun of our super seniors here nor am I angry. But then again wonder why you find so many others, including myself so angry. Projection? Then the strange need to label people. Today it is unchristian. Tomorrow you might pick homophobic. In the past racists. Who knows what unflattering term you will use in the coming weeks. Just wish I had the time to ponder such dastardly words for future use. But alas, Christmas is coming and I need to work on my gifts. Now there is a nice thought.........try it you might like it.

Personally I find older people hilarious. They just crack me up with their stories and wit. I will go with my dad to the Senior Center where he plays bridge sometimes and I just drink coffee in the sitting room and chat with so many people that I don't realize that hours have flown by. If I bring my spinning wheel or knitting I get a vast amount of knowledge from them. In fact when my dad gets worked up my mom calls me and I calm him down. He is an adult, he is very smart and he has a wicked sense of Irish Blarney.... he just forgets things. So I let him talk, then we discuss options and choices, and then he chooses what he thinks is the right action (well I do try to limit his choices so that he does not get too overwhelmed). Easy peasy

Off to knit, or maybe crochet...................Have a nice night and bless your heart


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Isn't it nice that you live so close and can spend all that quality time with your father. 
All the more reason that you should know better than to degrade people for the same disability that he has. 
Wonder what Dear old Dad would think of this...

"<<<<<<whispering so the AOW don't hear us talking>>>> We should maybe be nicer to the poor things. One of the first signs of dementia is anger and uncontrollable rage based on fear of loosing control, inappropriate sexual comments and unnatural fixations on random situations. Maybe by what I see in their writings they are at stage 2. Remember that Alzheimer's patients 'sundown' and that is when their illness really rears it's ugly head."

or this
"I agree. Their trash talk is so demeaning to themselves and others. But I guess when all you have to do at night is talk dirty, it must be very sad. I am telling you that if I were their child (most are so much older than myself and are the age of my parents) I would be so embarrassed know that they talk like that, name called like they do, swear, or use vulgar text messages or *** to fill in the blanks. I was raised better than that and had the education to have a large enough vocabulary to express myself civilly not trashy. Talk about dirty AOW."

Just insert Dad in there for they. 
LOL, what would you know about vulgar text messages any one of us might have done?



lovethelake said:


> I have not made fun of our super seniors here nor am I angry. But then again wonder why you find so many others, including myself so angry. Projection? Then the strange need to label people. Today it is unchristian. Tomorrow you might pick homophobic. In the past racists. Who knows what unflattering term you will use in the coming weeks. Just wish I had the time to ponder such dastardly words for future use. But alas, Christmas is coming and I need to work on my gifts. Now there is a nice thought.........try it you might like it.
> 
> Personally I find older people hilarious. They just crack me up with their stories and wit. I will go with my dad to the Senior Center where he plays bridge sometimes and I just drink coffee in the sitting room and chat with so many people that I don't realize that hours have flown by. If I bring my spinning wheel or knitting I get a vast amount of knowledge from them. In fact when my dad gets worked up my mom calls me and I calm him down. He is an adult, he is very smart and he has a wicked sense of Irish Blarney.... he just forgets things. So I let him talk, then we discuss options and choices, and then he chooses what he thinks is the right action (well I do try to limit his choices so that he does not get too overwhelmed). Easy peasy
> 
> Off to knit, or maybe crochet...................Have a nice night and bless your heart


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Three examples actually...and that's 50% of the women I've had actual conversations with that were more than just superficial.
> 
> One woman did go on to have more children and she had complicated pregnancies attributed to her abortions: placenta previa while carrying and excessive hemorrhaging during delivery that almost cost her her own life, not to lessen the struggle the baby went through.
> 
> I think that unless they know that it's a really safe place to express themselves (and I'm not saying that it wasn't a safe place for your friends) that a lot of women just spout the accepted pc side of abortion and don't really tell you the truth about their deepest feelings.


There is no association between abortion and placenta previa. None.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Isn't it nice that you live so close and can spend all that quality time with your father.
> All the more reason that you should know better than to degrade people for the same disability that he has.
> Wonder what Dear old Dad would think of this...
> 
> ...


Thank you, Knitanon. I guess she hasn't shown her civil side or her pleasant nature. If her parents could read her posts they might wonder what kind of person she has become. Almost every post has trash-talk.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is no association between abortion and placenta previa. None.


I knew that was a nutty post. Thanks Wombat for setting it straight.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> Thank you, Knitanon. I guess she hasn't shown her civil side or her pleasant nature. If her parents could read her posts they might wonder what kind of person she has become. Almost every post has trash-talk.


You make LTL sound so young. How old do you think she is? Or at least what decade?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> I knew that was a nutty post. Thanks Wombat for setting it straight.


There's also no connection between abortion and breast cancer. That used to be another rumor going around.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> They did face perils and death when their parents left them in the hands of coyotes in order to get them across a desert and drug-lord territory. I don't ASSUME that parents feel the way I would feel. I KNOW that there is an inherent need for our genes (offspring) to survive. I also KNOW that a majority of mothers cannot bear to part with their children; that losing a child for whatever reason is the hardest thing in the world. I hope you never have to suffer that. You are assuming that the coyotes charged that much, and that the parents didn't pay in some other trade. The children here may live in gang territories, but they hardly live in war torn areas. There is death and destructions, yes. Manny kids don't have a choice but to join a gang. But these are street gangs. Most kids have/had a chance to get out (when there was more money for social and athletic youth programs). There is a social and educational vicious cyle that is societies doing. Still, hardly war torn. There are a lot of issues that I am more than aware of and am empathetic too. The kids here can't be forgotten. But just bc we have suffering kids here, it doesn't negate others'. And the parents here DO send their kids off to "rich neighborhoods" when the kids have an opportunity for a better life. It happens with athletics all the time. I applaud these parents, or at least the ones who make sure the kids are there for an education as well.
> 
> I am sorry to hear about your daughter. My heart goes out to you. I am aware of her condition, and that the first year of an infants life is crucial. This happens to many kids who come from the orphanages in Russia and the Ukraine. I know many people who have kids with attachment disorder and other physical and psychological issues that come with their background. thHowever, going based on YOUR assumption that they want to be reunited with their families, they do not suffer from this. Also bc they came from famines. They were most likely not abused and neglected from birth. Their crucial time period for that development has passed. It would be almost statistically impossible for all the kids in all the age groups to suffer from attachment disorder.
> 
> ...


NC, I agree with MUCH of what you say. We're not that far apart in how we "feel". I " feel" like we need to take in the children. I "feel" that we could love them, feed them, clothe them and nurture them to become wonderful citizens. Unfortunately, I don't "think" that the reality of trying to do this is feasible.

A few points; you assume that all parents feel as you do. Not true! I have personally known people who don't care at all, about their children. They use their children to get what they want. Sadly, we hear about horrific abuses committed on children by their parents, all of the time. It would be a mistake to assume that everyone is like you. Next, I assumed that coyotes charged that much because I'd read it several times and heard it on the news. I've just googled it and looked at five or six articles. The consensus seems to be, between four and ten thousand dollars. Next, I never suggested that all of these children would have attachment disorder but certainly some may have issues like this. Their mothers have abandoned them for years, left them with relatives so that they themselves could come to the US. I don't know about you, but I would never be separated from my children. I would move heaven and earth to bring them with me or I wouldn't go. JMO. Many of these kids have been recruited by gangs to be drug runners. Assimilation won't be a simple matter for them. My point is, many of these kids will have problems. Do we have enough resources to deal with them? Enough being the key word.

I'm wondering about the psychological studies that show that people will do the right thing when it comes to kids. Apparently, they didn't study the Nazis or child sex traffickers. What about all of the children who are beaten to death by their parents? Or the children who are starved as punishment for misbehaving? Burned, beaten, thrown? What about the lost girls of Africa? What studies were these? I'd be interested in reading these studies. Could you please provide a link or source.

And lastly, when it comes to the economy, you're on the mark. We can both identify the causes of the problems but neither of us can fix them. Realistically, they aren't going to be fixed. Therein lies the biggest problem of all. Several times, you've talked about the kids in your neighborhood and issues with funds being cut to programs that help them. If we can't take care of the kids we already have, how can we take in more? It would be a travesty. It all boils down to resources or lack thereof.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> You make LTL sound so young. How old do you think she is? Or at least what decade?


I have no idea, but she sounds stodgy. She sounds older than I, but she says she's not. She keeps saying that "we" are the age of her parents and she thinks we're vulgar. The most vulgar word I've ever used here is probably "crap." Anyway, demeaning people and name-calling are far worse than whatever vulgarity she sees around here.
Did you like today's "Yiddish-ism?"


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> NC, I agree with MUCH of what you say. We're not that far apart in how we "feel". I " feel" like we need to take in the children. I "feel" that we could love them, feed them, clothe them and nurture them to become wonderful citizens. Unfortunately, I don't "think" that the reality of trying to do this is feasible.
> 
> A few points; you assume that all parents feel as you do. Not true! I have personally known people who don't care at all, about their children. They use their children to get what they want. Sadly, we hear about horrific abuses committed on children by their parents, all of the time. It would be a mistake to assume that everyone is like you. Next, I assumed that coyotes charged that much because I'd read it several times and heard it on the news. I've just googled it and looked at five or six articles. The consensus seems to be, between four and ten thousand dollars. Next, I never suggested that all of these children would have attachment disorder but certainly some may have issues like this. Their mothers have abandoned them for years, left them with relatives so that they themselves could come to the US. I don't know about you, but I would never be separated from my children. I would move heaven and earth to bring them with me or I wouldn't go. JMO. Many of these kids have been recruited by gangs to be drug runners. Assimilation won't be a simple matter for them. My point is, many of these kids will have problems. Do we have enough resources to deal with them? Enough being the key word.
> 
> ...


What about some faith-based initiatives?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

cookiequeen said:


> I have no idea, but she sounds stodgy. She sounds older than I, but she says she's not. She keeps saying that "we" are the age of her parents and she thinks we're vulgar. The most vulgar word I've ever used here is probably "crap." Anyway, demeaning people and name-calling are far worse than whatever vulgarity she sees around here.
> Did you like today's "Yiddish-ism?"


Where is your Yiddish-ism? Stodgy? That isn't Yiddish.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Ebola is spread by bodily fluids, it is spread by means simiilar to HIV. People make mistakes and something that is contagious spreads.
> From what I understand Ebola is expected to be treated well in clean, modern facilities.
> Just as with HIV people can live and live well when following universal precautions.
> http://www.healthline.com/health/ebola-hemorrhagic-fever#Getting Help7


But... I thought HIV had reached epidemic proportions. Are you saying its something we shouldn't be worried about?

Ebola is also carried by animals and bats. People can be infected by bites or by eating animals with the disease. We shouldn't dismiss the danger of this desease. If its introduced to our country, a lot of people will die.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> I knew that was a nutty post. Thanks Wombat for setting it straight.


Placenta previa occurs when the fertilized egg embeds itself low in the uterus. It can happen at any time to anyone - previous abortion or not.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

SQM said:


> Where is your Yiddish-ism? Stodgy? That isn't Yiddish.


SQM wrote:
Cookie - we used to have a member here, very much like you, who would sprout yiddish expressions. Don't we all miss her?

She's right here, eating her eggs and kishka.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> There's your woman who claims to always be kind.


I have NEVER made the claim that I was always kind.

Besides, why is it unkind to point out that you can't provide a solution, because there isn't one?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> But... I thought HIV had reached epidemic proportions. Are you saying its something we shouldn't be worried about?
> 
> Ebola is also carried by animals and bats. People can be infected by bites or by eating animals with the disease. We shouldn't dismiss the danger of this desease. If its introduced to our country, a lot of people will die.


I don't think anyone is dismissing the danger NIB. Fortunately, developed countries are much better able to treat highly infectious diseases. The two people infected and now in the US were transported in special pods, completely closed and are now in strict isolation. Hopefully they will survive. The would not if they remained in Africa.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> SQM wrote:
> Cookie - we used to have a member here, very much like you, who would sprout yiddish expressions. Don't we all miss her?
> 
> She's right here, eating her eggs and kishka.


What type of meat goes into your kishka?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't think anyone is dismissing the danger NIB. Fortunately, developed countries are much better able to treat highly infectious diseases. The two people infected and now in the US were transported in special pods, completely closed and are now in strict isolation. Hopefully they will survive. The would not if they remained in Africa.


Plus it certainly is the humanitarian thing to do. These were Americans who volunteered to help other people far away. At the very least they should be able to come back home for treatment without negative comments or paranoia. They are saints.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> What about some faith-based initiatives?


Are you advocating for Bush's programs? I thought you didn't like him? Or his ideas?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you advocating for Bush's programs?


No. I just think some religions are super wealthy and should use some of that wealth to help these kids; especially the Catholic Church which is already guardian of their spirits.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Those churches are all corrupt. The government is corrupt. The immigrants are all corrupt. 
Consumers won't pay for services. The government shouldn't pay for what the people wants the government to do. The people shouldn't pay for what the people want the government to do. 
Maybe God should come down and let gold bars flow from her fingertips and take care of everything.



SQM said:


> What about some faith-based initiatives?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I don't think anyone is dismissing the danger NIB. Fortunately, developed countries are much better able to treat highly infectious diseases. The two people infected and now in the US were transported in special pods, completely closed and are now in strict isolation. Hopefully they will survive. The would not if they remained in Africa.


I hope they survive too. Their chances aren't good but better here than in Africa. What concerns me most, is human error. These were medical personnel who recognized the danger and yet, were infected anyway. Even the best laid plans fail from time to time.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Plus it certainly is the humanitarian thing to do. These were Americans who volunteered to help other people far away. At the very least they should be able to come back home for treatment without negative comments or paranoia. They are saints.


Totally agree.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hope they survive too. Their chances aren't good but better here than in Africa. What concerns me most, is human error. These were medical personnel who recognized the danger and yet, were infected anyway. Even the best laid plans fail from time to time.


I think perhaps not all is known about the mode of transmission. For example, a gastro virus (which was usually transferred from hand to mouth), became airborne some years ago.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Plus it certainly is the humanitarian thing to do. These were Americans who volunteered to help other people far away. At the very least they should be able to come back home for treatment without negative comments or paranoia. They are saints.


I don't think any of my comments have been negative or paranoid. I spoke of facts. No panic, no histrionics, just truth. We should all be concerned and informed.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Common Core is changing Education. I don't think it is for the better. I just finished reading a book called "American History in Black and White" by David Barton. The real racists in the US were democrats. the African American's rights were the same as any white man until the Democrats gained control of the government after the Civil war.
> 
> *U.S. history takes drastic left turn this fall
> 
> ...


Wasn't slavery of African Americans abolished after the Civil War?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I hope they survive too. Their chances aren't good but better here than in Africa. What concerns me most, is human error. These were medical personnel who recognized the danger and yet, were infected anyway. Even the best laid plans fail from time to time.


You can get Ebola by coming into contact with the blood or body fluids of an animal or person who is infected. People often get sick with Ebola when they care for or bury a person who has the disease. Someone also can catch the virus by touching contaminated needles or surfaces. 
It isn't airborne.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The government has been funding social programs sponsored by churches for decades. It has absolutely nothing to do with George Bush. 
They don't use their money all of the time, they use ours. 
Another reason that it is so funny when some people claim that the churches could do all and more that the government does now.

Just pulled this up because I think George W. Bush was not in office then. Neither was HW for that matter.

http://www.ncregister.com/site/article/catholic_charities_argues_government_funding_is_vital/



SQM said:


> No. I just think some religions are super wealthy and should use some of that wealth to help these kids; especially the Catholic Church which is already guardian of their spirits.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> You can get Ebola by coming into contact with the blood or body fluids of an animal or person who is infected. People often get sick with Ebola when they care for or bury a person who has the disease. Someone also can catch the virus by touching contaminated needles or surfaces.
> It isn't airborne.


http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs103/en/

This link is the World Health Organisation's information re Ebola.

Viruses contained in body fluids can become airborne by means of splash. Medical staff caring for people with Ebola will be totally sealed in protective suits for that reason.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Common Core is changing Education. I don't think it is for the better. I just finished reading a book called "American History in Black and White" by David Barton. The real racists in the US were democrats. the African American's rights were the same as any white man until the Democrats gained control of the government after the Civil war.
> 
> *U.S. history takes drastic left turn this fall
> 
> ...


Here is a short blurb on David Barton. I don't see what qualifies him to write a book about history and/or Common Core.
David Barton (author)

David Barton (born January 28, 1954) is an American evangelical Christian minister,[1] conservative activist, and author. He founded WallBuilders, a Texas-based organization which promotes the view that it is a myth that the US Constitution insists on separation of church and state.[2][3] Barton is the former vice chair of the Republican Party of Texas. He has been described as a Christian nationalist and "one of the foremost Christian revisionist historians"; much of his work is devoted to advancing the idea, based upon research that many historians describe as flawed,[4] that the United States was founded as an explicitly Christian nation.[5]

Barton collects early American documents, and his official biography describes him as "an expert in historical and constitutional issues".[6] Barton holds no formal credentials in history or law, and scholars dispute the accuracy and integrity of his assertions about history, accusing him of practicing misleading historical revisionism, "pseudoscholarship" and spreading "outright falsehoods".[7][8][9][10] According to the New York Times, "many professional historians dismiss Mr. Barton, whose academic degree is in Christian Education from Oral Roberts University, as a biased amateur who cherry-picks quotes from history and the Bible."[4] Barton's 2012 book The Jefferson Lies was voted "the least credible history book in print" by the users of the History News Network website.[11] The book's publisher, the Christian publishing house Thomas Nelson, disavowed the book and withdrew it from sale. A senior executive said that Thomas Nelson could not stand by the book because "basic truths just were not there."[12]

A 2005 Time magazine article entitled "The 25 Most Influential Evangelicals" called Barton "a major voice in the debate over churchstate separation" who, despite the fact that "many historians dismiss his thinking... [is] a hero to millionsincluding some powerful politicians."[13] Barton has appeared on television and radio programs, including those of former Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee and Glenn Beck. Beck has praised Barton as "the Library of Congress in shoes".[14] In September 2013, POLITICO reported that he has returned to the political arena and is advising state legislators on how to fight the Common Core academic standards promoted by the Obama administration.[12]


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> No. I just think some religions are super wealthy and should use some of that wealth to help these kids; especially the Catholic Church which is already guardian of their spirits.


I'm always amused when people suggest that "others" should pay for anything or everything. From what I've heard, the catholic church in Rome is wealthy but not the individual parishes. They're just like most of us, barely getting by. That's why they conduct so many fundraisers, fish frys, garage sales, bake sales etc. Perhaps you could write to the pope and ask him for the funds?

IMO, anyone who thinks that illegal immigration is a good thing, should put up the money to fund it. If you feel strongly about it, you're free to sell your belongings and give up your apartment in Manhattan. You can put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, instead of suggesting that someone else pay for it. That's the primary problem I have with this issue. Everybody thinks it's great to let them all in but somebody else should pay for it. We have to be real.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Those churches are all corrupt. The government is corrupt. The immigrants are all corrupt.
> Consumers won't pay for services. The government shouldn't pay for what the people wants the government to do. The people shouldn't pay for what the people want the government to do.
> Maybe God should come down and let gold bars flow from her fingertips and take care of everything.


OK! But you still haven't explained where the money would come from. I guess you're the one who expects GOD to send down the gold bars because you haven't suggested one real means of funding this without hurting the people who are already here. The burden always falls on the lower and middle classes but I guess you think that's OK.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> I think perhaps not all is known about the mode of transmission. For example, a gastro virus (which was usually transferred from hand to mouth), became airborne some years ago.


Now, THAT'S a scary thought! I hadn't even considered the virus mutating.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Huck! WHERE did you get those lovely rose colored glasses?  I'll have to look into getting a pair.
> 
> I'm a realist. I see things as they are, not as they could be. I actually worry very little. These things are not in my control. That doesn't mean that I pretend they don't exist. IMO, you have to acknowledge a problem before you can fix it. Without acknowledgement, nothing changes.


Knitter from Nebraska
Cannot remember ever being without them. Oh I am a REALIST big time but never think that something cannot be changed. Optimist is my middle name.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I tried to tell you, you dismissed it.


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK! But you still haven't explained where the money would come from. I guess you're the one who expects GOD to send down the gold bars because you haven't suggested one real means of funding this without hurting the people who are already here. The burden always falls on the lower and middle classes but I guess you think that's OK.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The thing is that I am not greedy, so long as I have enough to get by I am willing to use my money to make children safe, adults too, for that matter. 
Can't take it with ya. 


Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK! But you still haven't explained where the money would come from. I guess you're the one who expects GOD to send down the gold bars because you haven't suggested one real means of funding this without hurting the people who are already here. The burden always falls on the lower and middle classes but I guess you think that's OK.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The liberal's problem is that he is a Christian. therefore, they will not believe anything he says. If you go back to the original documents of the founding of our country, you will find what he says is true. If you view the beautiful paintings that are in the Capitol, and Supreme Court buildings, you would not question that belief in God was a major influence in the founding of the country. I have not have the pleasure of seeing them in person, but I have seen the pictures and video of the magnificent buildings.
> 
> There is nothing in the Constitution that says there is separation of Church and State. It appeared in a letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. The purpose of the letter was to assure the Baptists that the state would not interfere in their church. I wonder how a letter written by a President to a Church becomes a part of the Constitution. There was not problem until the 1950's. Then the left started revising History until no young person in the Public Schools has any idea how our country was really founded.
> 
> I have heard David Barton speak several times and have read several of his books. He has said nothing different than what I learned in school, And the research I have done on my own. Any history books printed after 1960 are questionable, as far as their accuracy. I went to school in the 1950's and early 60's


On Dec. 18, 1865, slavery ended in the United States. Secretary of State William Seward issued a statement verifying the ratification of the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution making the end of slavery official eight months after the end of the Civil War. (from Huffington Post 2013)

I thought so and wasn't President Lincoln (President at the time) a republican?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> Knitter from Nebraska
> Cannot remember ever being without them. Oh I am a REALIST big time but never think that something cannot be changed. Optimist is my middle name.


Well I would sure like your ideas on how we could change things. My negativity leads me to believe that corruption and crony capitalism are bringing down our country. Do you know how we could fix tthat? ;-)

Actually, I believe that everything changes eventually and that good will win out. I have long term optimism, just not short term.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Wombatnomore said:


> On Dec. 18, 1865, slavery ended in the United States. Secretary of State William Seward issued a statement verifying the ratification of the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution making the end of slavery official eight months after the end of the Civil War. (from Huffington Post 2013)
> 
> I thought so and wasn't President Lincoln (President at the time) a republican?


You are correct, Lincoln was a Republican. At that time Republicans were liberal and Democrats were conservative.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> You are correct, Lincoln was a Republican. At that time Republicans were liberal and Democrats were conservative.


Thanks for clarifying, I became somewhat confused while reading about this!


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The liberal's problem is that he is a Christian. therefore, they will not believe anything he says. If you go back to the original documents of the founding of our country, you will find what he says is true. If you view the beautiful paintings that are in the Capitol, and Supreme Court buildings, you would not question that belief in God was a major influence in the founding of the country. I have not have the pleasure of seeing them in person, but I have seen the pictures and video of the magnificent buildings.
> 
> There is nothing in the Constitution that says there is separation of Church and State. It appeared in a letter from Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists. The purpose of the letter was to assure the Baptists that the state would not interfere in their church. I wonder how a letter written by a President to a Church becomes a part of the Constitution. There was not problem until the 1950's. Then the left started revising History until no young person in the Public Schools has any idea how our country was really founded.
> 
> I have heard David Barton speak several times and have read several of his books. He has said nothing different than what I learned in school, And the research I have done on my own. Any history books printed after 1960 are questionable, as far as their accuracy. I went to school in the 1950's and early 60's


I will also do some research. It is not that he is Christian that he isn't trusted. He has no credentials, no degree in any kind of history or constitutional studies. Doesn't that raise more than a few red flags? Is he objective? You certainly seem positive that books printed after 1960 are questionable. Why? As we look back on things we might see them in a different light, or documents or happenings become known that weren't known before. You really are very self-assured about your own accuracy, aren't you? Maybe you don't remember things exactly as they really were. I believe we should be open to learn, and you seem to be almost afraid of anything that disputes your memory of something. I don't believe you get an objective view of anything if you read just the conservative viewpoint. Why do you not question Barton's view of the founding fathers? Because it agrees with yours?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> The thing is that I am not greedy, so long as I have enough to get by I am willing to use my money to make children safe, adults too, for that matter.
> Can't take it with ya.


OK. So, how many are you willing to take in?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Don't you love that one? Libs won't listen because he is a Christian. Like there are no liberals who are Christian. Or maybe that means REAL Christians, you know, the kind who are saved no matter what they do and who they hurt or ignore.



cookiequeen said:


> I will also do some research. It is not that he is Christian that he isn't trusted. He has no credentials, no degree in any kind of history or constitutional studies. Doesn't that raise more than a few red flags? Is he objective? You certainly seem positive that books printed after 1960 are questionable. Why? As we look back on things we might see them in a different light, or documents or happenings become known that weren't known before. You really are very self-assured about your own accuracy, aren't you? Maybe you don't remember things exactly as they really were. I believe we should be open to learn, and you seem to be almost afraid of anything that disputes your memory of something. I don't believe you get an objective view of anything if you read just the conservative viewpoint. Why do you not question Barton's view of the founding fathers? Because it agrees with yours?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm always amused when people suggest that "others" should pay for anything or everything. From what I've heard, the catholic church in Rome is wealthy but not the individual parishes. They're just like most of us, barely getting by. That's why they conduct so many fundraisers, fish frys, garage sales, bake sales etc. Perhaps you could write to the pope and ask him for the funds?
> 
> IMO, anyone who thinks that illegal immigration is a good thing, should put up the money to fund it. If you feel strongly about it, you're free to sell your belongings and give up your apartment in Manhattan. You can put your money where your mouth is, so to speak, instead of suggesting that someone else pay for it. That's the primary problem I have with this issue. Everybody thinks it's great to let them all in but somebody else should pay for it. We have to be real.


Why do I volunteer the Catholic Church? Because these kids are Catholics. And you will never convince me the Church is poor. Tour the Vatican and see gems studded in the walls that are gold. It is not my fault if the Church hoards its money and does not give it to their parishes. I will not comment on your put up or shut up. Actually I will. Blah to you.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I will also do some research. It is not that he is Christian that he isn't trusted. He has no credentials, no degree in any kind of history or constitutional studies. Doesn't that raise more than a few red flags? Is he objective? You certainly seem positive that books printed after 1960 are questionable. Why? As we look back on things we might see them in a different light, or documents or happenings become known that weren't known before. You really are very self-assured about your own accuracy, aren't you? Maybe you don't remember things exactly as they really were. I believe we should be open to learn, and you seem to be almost afraid of anything that disputes your memory of something. I don't believe you get an objective view of anything if you read just the conservative viewpoint. Why do you not question Barton's view of the founding fathers? Because it agrees with yours?


Very well said.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

s.dupper said:


> That is an absolutely stupid question.


Yup.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm wondering about the psychological studies that show that people will do the right thing when it comes to kids. Apparently, they didn't study the Nazis or child sex traffickers. What about all of the children who are beaten to death by their parents? Or the children who are starved as punishment for misbehaving? Burned, beaten, thrown? What about the lost girls of Africa? What studies were these? I'd be interested in reading these studies. Could you please provide a link or source.


I don't have a lot of time to answer, so I chose one key thought.

I was speaking of the norm, you are speaking of the abnormal. MOST people are not like that. Most people do not abuse their kids, most people are not sex slave traffickers, most don't commit mass infanticide. These are the exceptions, not the rule. As for studying the nazis- WWII actually "fathered" social psychology as a field. It existed, but only in the context of broader fields. Psychologists and sociologists asked "how could this happen? How could people let this happen?" Etc. 
In the face of atrocities people do incredible things. Like the guy who sacrificed his life in order to save people who were victims of a plane crash in the Potomac. This is ALTRUISM, and it exists. Altruism tends to show itself in times of strife. While it is true that many people stood by and did nothing, Hitler and the nazis would have been completely successful if it were not for this concept. Not only does social psychology answer the whys and how's of the horrific, it also explores and explains the generosity and kindness that people display. Hitler had "fear" on his side. That is one of the most powerful weapons imaginable. It can make people do horrible things. But there are people who refuse to bow to that. These are the people I am talking about.

I went to school right before the internet became the way of research. Much of what I studied was part of a larger course book that the professor compiled. You can definitely find publications on altruism, though. I am trying to recollect other specific subjects, but can't think of any. What I studied was purely psychosocial. It was not political, nor was it opinion. I hope to soon unpack my "library" so I can once again go through my beloved texts.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

An excellent explanation.

Of course we also have situations in which children are raised with horrific circumstances around them and fare very well despite their surroundings and other children who have been treated well and turn out as nasty, greedy, brats. 
The real trick is to have them in a place where they can grow to adulthood. 
The US House of Representatives seems to think that we can decide all these futures with slightly under 600K. We shall see. 


Natureschampion said:


> I don't have a lot of time to answer, so I chose one key thought.
> 
> I was speaking of the norm, you are speaking of the abnormal. MOST people are not like that. Most people do not abuse their kids, most people are not sex slave traffickers, most don't commit mass infanticide. These are the exceptions, not the rule. As for studying the nazis- WWII actually "fathered" social psychology as a field. It existed, but only in the context of broader fields. Psychologists and sociologists asked "how could this happen? How could people let this happen?" Etc.
> In the face of atrocities people do incredible things. Like the guy who sacrificed his life in order to save people who were victims of a plane crash in the Potomac. This is ALTRUISM, and it exists. Altruism tends to show itself in times of strife. While it is true that many people stood by and did nothing, Hitler and the nazis would have been completely successful if it were not for this concept. Not only does social psychology answer the whys and how's of the horrific, it also explores and explains the generosity and kindness that people display. Hitler had "fear" on his side. That is one of the most powerful weapons imaginable. It can make people do horrible things. But there are people who refuse to bow to that. These are the people I am talking about.
> ...


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

s.dupper said:


> Wrong. You're conflating Dixiecrats with Democrats.
> 
> Dixiecrats who were anti-civil rights and the decedents of the pro-slavery southerners is what is now the current GOP.
> 
> ...


And to try to claim that Jim Crow didn't exist? 
Absolutely ridiculous. 
I suppose there were no issues concerning voting rights either.
The Tea Party and good Christians, bless their hearts.


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

So...what you're saying is that the former racist Dixiecrat/Democrats became 'Republicans in Name Only' (RINOs) yet remained not only left-leaning but also racists!

And you think conservatives don't know this? You think we don't know who and what the RINOs are? 

The only people who don't know this are the leftists who deny that it was the southern Democrats who were the party of slavery and, later, segregation. It was George Wallace, a Democrat, who stood in the southern schoolhouse door to block desegregation! 

The vast majority of Congressional GOP voted FOR the Civil Rights of 1964-65. The vast majority of those opposed to those acts were southern Democrats. Southern Democrats led the infamous filibuster of the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

When you learn what it means to be truly honest you might also be able to stop spreading lies!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

No, I rarely read more than the first line of what you write. This time I got to pole tax before I fell off my chair laughing. 


joeysomma said:


> I guess you didn't read!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

It is POLL tax. Sheesh.


joeysomma said:


> I guess you are ready to reply to something and show you know nothing of what you are trying to talk about.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Former? Where do you see former anywhere?


Gerslay said:


> So...what you're saying is that the former racist Dixiecrat/Democrats became 'Republicans in Name Only' (RINOs) yet remained not only left-leaning but also racists!
> 
> And you think conservatives don't know this? You think we don't know who and what the RINOs are?
> 
> ...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> "Wasn't Marriage suggested to (forced upon) Rock Hudson in order to "cure" him?"
> 
> Certainly you could not be a leading man in old Hollywood if it were known you were gay. There were tons of "Hollywood Marriages". My favorites are Spencer and Kathryn. He was gay, she was a Lesbian. They used Catholicism as their reasons for never marrying. I have to assume that his wife was also part of the Hollywood deal. Second favorite - Elsa Maxwell and Charles Laughton. That was a surprise. Cary Grant????? The love of his life was Randolph Scott. Who else??? My biggest shocker was Danny Kaye and Laurence Olivier.
> 
> Spell Check has gotten smarter. Has anyone else noticed that?


Elsa Maxwell was a gossip columnist. Elsa Lanchester married Charles Laughton. I still don't believe Danny Kaye and Laurence Olivier. I guess they're the odd couple.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Why do I volunteer the Catholic Church? Because these kids are Catholics. And you will never convince me the Church is poor. Tour the Vatican and see gems studded in the walls that are gold. It is not my fault if the Church hoards its money and does not give it to their parishes. I will not comment on your put up or shut up. Actually I will. Blah to you.


Most of these kids are from Guatemala and Honduras. Both of these countries happen to be 47% Catholic. I think you're stereotyping them. They're not necessarily Catholic. Over half the people in their counties are non catholic. I never claimed that the Catholic church was poor. In fact I indicated that The Church in Rome, was very wealthy. It is the "churches" that you were referring to. They just get by. THE church doesn't give money to the parishes. It takes the money from the parishes. That's why they're so rich. IMO, the pope talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_by_country

I never said, "put up or shut up". I actually considered using those words but I decided that it might be taken as rude, so I changed it. But then, they're just words. Its the meaning that matters. I think that those who think they should help, should. But they should not try to force others to do the same. Every person should be allowed to decide where their own charitable giving goes. Everyone thinks differently.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

SQM said:


> Why do I volunteer the Catholic Church? Because these kids are Catholics. And you will never convince me the Church is poor. Tour the Vatican and see gems studded in the walls that are gold. It is not my fault if the Church hoards its money and does not give it to their parishes. I will not comment on your put up or shut up. Actually I will. Blah to you.


SQM
the catholic church is the biggest real estate holder in the world. Let them sell some of it and feed the hungry and give shelter to the homeless. Yes, the Jewels being hoarded by the Church, shameful.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> the catholic church is the biggest real estate holder in the world. Let them sell some of it and feed the hungry and give shelter to the homeless. Yes, the Jewels being hoarded by the Church, shameful.


There is a property near here that the Diocese has decided to sell. 
Three decent sized lots for a $150,000,000. We laughed and laughed. Guess they want to hold onto that. They must think they are in the middle of Philadelphia


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is no association between abortion and placenta previa. None.


There is no association to reason or truth in almost anything I've read that she's posted.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I have no idea, but she sounds stodgy. She sounds older than I, but she says she's not. She keeps saying that "we" are the age of her parents and she thinks we're vulgar. The most vulgar word I've ever used here is probably "crap." Anyway, demeaning people and name-calling are far worse than whatever vulgarity she sees around here.
> Did you like today's "Yiddish-ism?"


She was probably the same self-righteous, insulting know-it-all when she was 8 that she is today. Does anyone care how old she is?

More important, I thought I sent you a message asking whether your kishka was stuffed with matzoh farfel and a little schmaltz, but it never showed up. Or I missed it.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Placenta previa occurs when the fertilized egg embeds itself low in the uterus. It can happen at any time to anyone - previous abortion or not.


They make whatever association they want that fits their agenda, even if the two things are mutually exclusive.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Those churches are all corrupt. The government is corrupt. The immigrants are all corrupt.
> Consumers won't pay for services. The government shouldn't pay for what the people wants the government to do. The people shouldn't pay for what the people want the government to do.
> Maybe God should come down and let gold bars flow from her fingertips and take care of everything.


Bless you for this.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> What type of meat goes into your kishka?


My grandpas always like beef kishka. I like beef or veggie. I can't stand the fish kind. Do you eat kishka?


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't have a lot of time to answer, so I chose one key thought.
> 
> I was speaking of the norm, you are speaking of the abnormal. MOST people are not like that. Most people do not abuse their kids, most people are not sex slave traffickers, most don't commit mass infanticide. These are the exceptions, not the rule. As for studying the nazis- WWII actually "fathered" social psychology as a field. It existed, but only in the context of broader fields. Psychologists and sociologists asked "how could this happen? How could people let this happen?" Etc.
> In the face of atrocities people do incredible things. Like the guy who sacrificed his life in order to save people who were victims of a plane crash in the Potomac. This is ALTRUISM, and it exists. Altruism tends to show itself in times of strife. While it is true that many people stood by and did nothing, Hitler and the nazis would have been completely successful if it were not for this concept. Not only does social psychology answer the whys and how's of the horrific, it also explores and explains the generosity and kindness that people display. Hitler had "fear" on his side. That is one of the most powerful weapons imaginable. It can make people do horrible things. But there are people who refuse to bow to that. These are the people I am talking about.
> ...


Well, I can certainly agree with what you've said here about altruism. But that's not what you said earlier. You referred to psychological and sociological studies. I don't know you so I don't know if you made it up or not. There have been several times that you've referred to things you learned in school but you can never source your information. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it? Unfortunately, I think that more and more people are becoming part of the abnormal. I think that our children face more danger than ever before.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Very good example why every Abortion doctor needs to have admitting privileges at a nearby hospital. Maybe some type of Homicide charges should be files. Like depraved-indifference.
> 
> Planned Parenthood Never Called 911 for Abortion Victim


Tonya Reaves' death was ruled an accident by the Cook County medical examiner's office, brought on by complications that affect less than 0.3 percent of abortion patients, according to the Guttmacher Institute, the Chicago Sun-Times reports. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/tonya-reaves-death-after-_n_1698079.html


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Huckleberry said:


> SQM
> the catholic church is the biggest real estate holder in the world. Let them sell some of it and feed the hungry and give shelter to the homeless. Yes, the Jewels being hoarded by the Church, shameful.


I love how the pope says that we should redistribute wealth throughout the world but apparently thinks it doesn't apply to them.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> There is a property near here that the Diocese has decided to sell.
> Three decent sized lots for a $150,000,000. We laughed and laughed. Guess they want to hold onto that. They must think they are in the middle of Philadelphia


Where are you? $50,000 per lot wouldn't be uncommon here.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> She was probably the same self-righteous, insulting know-it-all when she was 8 that she is today. Does anyone care how old she is?
> 
> More important, I thought I sent you a message asking whether your kishka was stuffed with matzoh farfel and a little schmaltz, but it never showed up. Or I missed it.


Oh, Purl! Please interpret for those of us who have no idea what your saying. Is a matzoh, a meatball? I've heard the term, matzoh balls.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> My grandpas always like beef kishka. I like beef or veggie. I can't stand the fish kind. Do you eat kishka?


Fish kishka? Sounds awful. Really, it sounds funny, like a Mel Brooks song. I've only had kishka with some kind of starch inside it.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> There is a property near here that the Diocese has decided to sell.
> Three decent sized lots for a $150,000,000. We laughed and laughed. Guess they want to hold onto that. They must think they are in the middle of Philadelphia


Knitanon
My guess is that they want to look good and pretend wanting to dispose of some of their holdings. That is what you do, set the price so high that no-one will buy and put the blame on others.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Where are you? $50,000 per lot wouldn't be uncommon here.


$50 million, not $50 thousand.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> So easy to say it was an accident. Then the police don't have to investigate. The police are to busy with the gangs, anyway. Maybe medical malpractice. I hope the family sues and wins.


It was the medical examiner who called it an accident. I don't think the ME works for the police, and probably has a code of ethics that would prevent him from a fraudulent ruling. Anyway, since the case is at least 2 years old, there must have been some follow-up. Did you ever check?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> On Dec. 18, 1865, slavery ended in the United States. Secretary of State William Seward issued a statement verifying the ratification of the 13th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution making the end of slavery official eight months after the end of the Civil War. (from Huffington Post 2013)
> 
> I thought so and wasn't President Lincoln (President at the time) a republican?


He was, but the term meant something totally different back then. We have had many for parties with the same ideologies. In this case, we have the same name for two different ideologies.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> $50 million, not $50 thousand.


Oops! I missed that.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well I would sure like your ideas on how we could change things. My negativity leads me to believe that corruption and crony capitalism are bringing down our country. Do you know how we could fix tthat? ;-)
> 
> Actually, I believe that everything changes eventually and that good will win out. I have long term optimism, just not short term.


I'm right there with you, KFN.

I can't say it here. Who knows who is watching... Big brother is EVERYWHERE.

:wink:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Purl! Please interpret for those of us who have no idea what your saying. Is a matzoh, a meatball? I've heard the term, matzoh balls.


Man in a Jewish restaurant orders matzoh ball soup and loves it. Tells the waiter, "The matzoh balls were delicious. What other part of the matzoh do you people eat?"

A matzoh is a "slice" of unleavened bread, like a very large cracker with very little taste. If you crunch one up into pieces the size of raw oats, you have what's called matzoh meal. Mix it with egg, oil water, salt, maybe onion, roll it into small balls and drop it in boiling water and you get matzoh balls. Really good in chicken soup.

Better yet, http://food52.com/recipes/21272-joan-nathan-s-chosen-matzo-ball-soup


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> He was, but the term meant something totally different back then. We have had many for parties with the same ideologies. In this case, we have the same name for two different ideologies.


Yes, Cindy S kindly clarified that for me a couple of pages ago. I understand now but became very confused before the clarification! :shock:


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Man in a Jewish restaurant orders matzoh ball soup and loves it. Tells the waiter, "The matzoh balls were delicious. What other part of the matzoh do you people eat?"
> 
> A matzoh is a "slice" of unleavened bread, like a very large cracker with very little taste. If you crunch one up into pieces the size of raw oats, you have what's called matzoh meal. Mix it with egg, oil water, salt, maybe onion, roll it into small balls and drop it in boiling water and you get matzoh balls. Really good in chicken soup.
> 
> Better yet, http://food52.com/recipes/21272-joan-nathan-s-chosen-matzo-ball-soup


Totally delicious!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, I can certainly agree with what you've said here about altruism. But that's not what you said earlier. You referred to psychological and sociological studies. I don't know you so I don't know if you made it up or not. There have been several times that you've referred to things you learned in school but you can never source your information. I guess we'll just have to take your word for it? Unfortunately, I think that more and more people are becoming part of the abnormal. I think that our children face more danger than ever before.


I said there were psychological and sociological studies that show that people do the "right" thing. Altruism is a huge concept in that. Motivation is another, evolutionary psychology is yet another. Of course there are 2 sides of every coin, a balance. There are evils bc there is good, there is suffering bc there is joy, etc. there is psychosocial research that states that people are horrible (Milgram experiment, 1961), as well as research that states the opposite. The specific research does not come to mind at this moment, but if I find it soon I will certainly send it to you. The most substantial I can think of right now are the many studies on altruism.

I know, and trust me I wish I had all of my books and research papers. I know you don't know me, but when it comes to psychology and social behavior, please give me the benefit of the doubt.

I fear you are right in some respects in general but not this one specifically. I think that bc we live in a global society we are made more aware of the atrocities that humans commit. If the Holocaust happened now, it wouldn't have taken as long for the US to form a strong enough public opinion for the government to get involved after citizens saw Instagram photos of the death camps and ghettos. I think that what is getting worse is complacency when it comes to our government and it's corporate puppet master.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> An excellent explanation.
> 
> Of course we also have situations in which children are raised with horrific circumstances around them and fare very well despite their surroundings and other children who have been treated well and turn out as nasty, greedy, brats.
> The real trick is to have them in a place where they can grow to adulthood.
> The US House of Representatives seems to think that we can decide all these futures with slightly under 600K. We shall see.


The human and mind and psyche are an extraordinary thing filled with limitless possibilities. That is why psychology is not considered a "hard science." There is no "one size fits all" when it comes to psychology. We cannot predict with certainty how an individual will react to a situation, unless we have seen that individual in the same exact situation over and over. There is no black and white. There are educated guesses (hypotheses), but none can be stated with certainty.

Continuity is one of the most important things in development. They have already had their lives disrupted. To play a virtual "red rover" would only be more detrimental unless we have a SAFE and permanent solution. I do not know what that solution is.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I love how the pope says that we should redistribute wealth throughout the world but apparently thinks it doesn't apply to them.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Man in a Jewish restaurant orders matzoh ball soup and loves it. Tells the waiter, "The matzoh balls were delicious. What other part of the matzoh do you people eat?"
> 
> A matzoh is a "slice" of unleavened bread, like a very large cracker with very little taste. If you crunch one up into pieces the size of raw oats, you have what's called matzoh meal. Mix it with egg, oil water, salt, maybe onion, roll it into small balls and drop it in boiling water and you get matzoh balls. Really good in chicken soup.
> 
> Better yet, http://food52.com/recipes/21272-joan-nathan-s-chosen-matzo-ball-soup


Poor Purl
Give me matzoh ball soup every day and I am in 7th heaven. You are right, it is delicious in chicken broth/soup.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Where are you? $50,000 per lot wouldn't be uncommon here.


Didn't she say $150 million? So isn't that $50 million each? There are few properties worth that much even in CA, which boasts some of the most expensive properties. I don't think that there are any private lots worth that much that don't already have a sructure, plumbing, electricity, phone...


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Oh, Purl! Please interpret for those of us who have no idea what your saying. Is a matzoh, a meatball? I've heard the term, matzoh balls.


Matzoh is unleavened bread (like a big cracker). It's what the Jews ate when they were fleeing Egypt. The story goes that they didn't have time for it to rise, and now their descendent seat it during the week of Passover. We use the "meal" (matzoh meal) to make matzoh balls. It's a fluffy delicious "bread" ball, essentially. We use matzoh meal mainly during Passover to substitute not being able to have anything with yeast or grains. Matzoh farfel is basically like broken up crackers we use with different foods, but mainly we put it in our matzoh ball soup. 

If you have never had matzoh balls in chicken soup before, I highly suggest you try it. If prepared the right way, they are quite good! The trick is not making them too dense. My mom would pat them down and they would be as hard as rocks. My gm made them perfect. The fluffier, the better!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Yes, Cindy S kindly clarified that for me a couple of pages ago. I understand now but became very confused before the clarification! :shock:


Yah, I'm kinda jumping around, sorry. I've only been able to get on for a few minutes at a time and lose my place. Our history and terminology are kinda wonky.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Man in a Jewish restaurant orders matzoh ball soup and loves it. Tells the waiter, "The matzoh balls were delicious. What other part of the matzoh do you people eat?"
> 
> A matzoh is a "slice" of unleavened bread, like a very large cracker with very little taste. If you crunch one up into pieces the size of raw oats, you have what's called matzoh meal. Mix it with egg, oil water, salt, maybe onion, roll it into small balls and drop it in boiling water and you get matzoh balls. Really good in chicken soup.
> 
> Better yet, http://food52.com/recipes/21272-joan-nathan-s-chosen-matzo-ball-soup


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> Give me matzoh ball soup every day and I am in 7th heaven. You are right, it is delicious in chicken broth/soup.


My sis is the same way. I like them a lot, but they can get tiresome. Besides, I am not the biggest chicken soup fan. <gasp!>. I know, my ancestors would be spinning in their graves. However, matzoh ball soup is the only way I can eat chicken soup. Matzoh balls complete chicken soup, IMO. In fact, I've never seen just plain matzoh balls, only ever in soup. Also in soup with kreplach. Ever had that?


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> My sis is the same way. I like them a lot, but they can get tiresome. Besides, I am not the biggest chicken soup fan. <gasp!>. I know, my ancestors would be spinning in their graves. However, matzoh ball soup is the only way I can eat chicken soup. Matzoh balls complete chicken soup, IMO. In fact, I've never seen just plain matzoh balls, only ever in soup. Also in soup with kreplach. Ever had that?


Natureschampion
kreplach is not a term I am familiar with. I love Borscht though. Some of the meals with fish is not to my liking.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> kreplach is not a term I am familiar with. I love Borscht though. Some of the meals with fish is not to my liking.


Maybe Cookie can tell you what a kreplach is.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Huckleberry said:


> Natureschampion
> kreplach is not a term I am familiar with. I love Borscht though. Some of the meals with fish is not to my liking.


I don't like any Ashkenazi fish dish. They are always so " fishy". This is bc in Eastern Europe, Jews did not have access to fresh fish and so they had to pickle, smoke, or other methods in order to preserve them. Old fish=stinky fish! as far as I'm concerned. I do not like lox or pickled herring, which are both big favorites among a lot of my people. Since the Sephardic Jews were generally located closer to bodies of water, they have more fresh fish dishes that are a little more appealing. Their food also tends to be less heavy due to their location and the surrounding cultures.

Kreplach is a dumpling that is also commonly found in chicken soup. It may or may not contain meat. I have not had borscht since my bubbie (great grandma) was alive. One of my favorites is Lentil soup.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

We're getting better.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sooooo? What is your perspective on our economy? Do we need more workers? Do we have an abundance of unfilled jobs?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

This will be fun.



Poor Purl said:


> You, too, Dame? Would you do a little soft shoe for us now? The chorus line will back you up.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Cole Porter had such a way with words. Adore him.



Poor Purl said:


> I'll agree on that one. But never on all those Andrew Lloyd Webber things. The music in them is all the same.
> 
> I think the best musical ever is Kiss Me, Kate (1948). Nobody writes songs that compare to Cole Porter's.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

War on Women is not a nice, nice thread. We are all free to comment in our own ways, as evidenced by your crew.

Don't dare to give me advice. I don't want it. I won't take it. Stuff it on your person.



soloweygirl said:


> Damemary, you must be pissed off as you are certainly striking back. Calm down. Go back to using the smilies, even Shirley agrees it's a better way to communicate. You two can have a smilies face off. Wouldn't that be a hoot?


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I'm only answering for myself. I refuse to devote time and energy (Known as doing someone's homework for them.)just to engage in an endless argument, signifying nothing. I'll knit instead.



soloweygirl said:


> Did you ever find that post? Just curious.


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Possibly because your head is shoved someplace where there is no visibility?


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


----------



## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I just realized something while trying to catch up on this thread. It isn't worth my time.


----------



## sumpleby (Aug 3, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> As long as the Republicans were in control of Congress and the Presidency, the African Americans had civil rights. The Democrats gained partial control of congress in 1876. Then in 1893 Grover Cleveland became president and controlled both houses. Since the AA voted mostly Republican, the Democrats devised ways to take their voting privileges away. First the pole tax (so high the poor could not pay), then literacy tests (containing obscure facts), then the "grandfather clause" (grandfather or father had to be registered before passage of 15th amendment), use of multiple ballots and multiple polling places (AA were not informed ), and the gerrymandering. Then by the time of Woodrow Wilson there was the "separate but equal" schools, drinking fountains, buses, etc. The start of the return of rights was under Truman. Much more during Eisenhower. Then Martin Luther King Jr. became a loud but peaceable spokesman.
> 
> The African Americans have been lied to by the Democrats and it has continued so they are afraid of what the Republicans would do to them if elected. Incidentally the KKK members were democratic cowards, otherwise why would they conceal their identity.
> 
> Recent democrats are giving African Americans hand outs and leading them to believe they need the Democrats to be in power so they do not loose them. What better way to tell the African American that they are not capable (or to stupid) to take care of them selves


What you are ignoring is the polar shift in the Republican and Democratic parties. During the Civil War Republicans were actually more like the Democratic party of today and vice versa.


----------



## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

damemary said:



> I just realized something while trying to catch up on this thread. It isn't worth my time.


I've taken to skipping a lot of pages on this thread. Wherever the link in my e-mail dumps me, I look at that page and the next one, then skip one and look at the next, then skip two and look at the next, and so forth, either increasing the number of pages I skip by one, or doubling the number of pages I skip. I started off reading every single page, but that is a great way to stay up all night and not accomplish anything. And I have had enough nights here lately when I stayed up all night for better reasons.

Love you all.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> My grandpas always like beef kishka. I like beef or veggie. I can't stand the fish kind. Do you eat kishka?


I certainly have and will happily do so in the future! I like beef and veggie kishka. I didn't know there was fish kishka!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I said there were psychological and sociological studies that show that people do the "right" thing. Altruism is a huge concept in that. Motivation is another, evolutionary psychology is yet another. Of course there are 2 sides of every coin, a balance. There are evils bc there is good, there is suffering bc there is joy, etc. there is psychosocial research that states that people are horrible (Milgram experiment, 1961), as well as research that states the opposite. The specific research does not come to mind at this moment, but if I find it soon I will certainly send it to you. The most substantial I can think of right now are the many studies on altruism.
> 
> I know, and trust me I wish I had all of my books and research papers. I know you don't know me, but when it comes to psychology and social behavior, please give me the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I fear you are right in some respects in general but not this one specifically. I think that bc we live in a global society we are made more aware of the atrocities that humans commit. If the Holocaust happened now, it wouldn't have taken as long for the US to form a strong enough public opinion for the government to get involved after citizens saw Instagram photos of the death camps and ghettos. I think that what is getting worse is complacency when it comes to our government and it's corporate puppet master.


You have such knowledge and wisdom Nature. I applaud you.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Yah, I'm kinda jumping around, sorry. I've only been able to get on for a few minutes at a time and lose my place. Our history and terminology are kinda wonky.


Whose isn't?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> I certainly have and will happily do so in the future! I like beef and veggie kishka. I didn't know there was fish kishka!


Yah, there's a reason for that. NO ONE likes it! Lol! You can put anything in kishka. Do you have it with the gravy? You HAVE to have it with the gravy. Ok, now I think I need to go to dinner at the only deli in my area, which is about 13 miles away. Not too bad since it's all freeway driving. I need to have some kishka and "chicken in a pot", which is a huge bowl filled with chicken soup, kaneidelah <purl, help me with the spelling of that one> (matzoh balls) and kreplach. Mmmmm. Ooh! And a pastrami sandwich on rye with brown deli mustard. Now THATS what I'm talking about! Yummmmmeeeeeeeee....    .

Want to join me? Lol!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> You have such knowledge and wisdom Nature. I applaud you.


Aw, thanks wombat! That means a lot. You have yourself to applaud, as you are the one who I ticked me to express myself in the first place. So bravo! Lol


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Wombatnomore said:


> Whose isn't?


Good point. I guess it is the nature of societies.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Yah, there's a reason for that. NO ONE likes it! Lol! You can put anything in kishka. Do you have it with the gravy? You HAVE to have it with the gravy. Ok, now I think I need to go to dinner at the only deli in my area, which is about 13 miles away. Not too bad since it's all freeway driving. I need to have some kishka and "chicken in a pot", which is a huge bowl filled with chicken soup, kaneidelah <purl, help me with the spelling of that one> (matzoh balls) and kreplach. Mmmmm. Ooh! And a pastrami sandwich on rye with brown deli mustard. Now THATS what I'm talking about! Yummmmmeeeeeeeee....    .
> 
> Want to join me? Lol!


Yes please! And I'm salivating like a hungry wolf right now!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Yah, there's a reason for that. NO ONE likes it! Lol! You can put anything in kishka. Do you have it with the gravy? You HAVE to have it with the gravy. Ok, now I think I need to go to dinner at the only deli in my area, which is about 13 miles away. Not too bad since it's all freeway driving. I need to have some kishka and "chicken in a pot", which is a huge bowl filled with chicken soup, kaneidelah <purl, help me with the spelling of that one> (matzoh balls) and kreplach. Mmmmm. Ooh! And a pastrami sandwich on rye with brown deli mustard. Now THATS what I'm talking about! Yummmmmeeeeeeeee....    .
> 
> Want to join me? Lol!


Yes, I absolutely want to join you.We went out for a wonderful dinner Sunday night to celebrate my birthday, but now I wish I had gone to your deli - much more interesting.

I would probably spell it k'neidlach, but who knows whether it's right? Matzoh balls is so much easier.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Aw, thanks wombat! That means a lot. You have yourself to applaud, as you are the one who I ticked me to express myself in the first place. So bravo! Lol


Thank you! Between the angst here, it's a pleasure to read thoughtful and well reasoned opinions.


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I absolutely want to join you.We went out for a wonderful dinner Sunday night to celebrate my birthday, but now I wish I had gone to your deli - much more interesting.
> 
> I would probably spell it k'neidlach, but who knows whether it's right? Matzoh balls is so much easier.


Happy Birthday Poor Purl!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> Happy Birthday Poor Purl!


Thank you, Wombat.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I absolutely want to join you.We went out for a wonderful dinner Sunday night to celebrate my birthday, but now I wish I had gone to your deli - much more interesting.
> 
> I would probably spell it k'neidlach, but who knows whether it's right? Matzoh balls is so much easier.


Happy birthday!!! What kind of food did you have? Ever since I was a kid, I have always preferred spaghetti for my bday.

You wish you had gone to MY deli? Aren't you in the city that these kind of delis were CREATED? This deli is quite good. Their black and white cookies are the best I have ver had. And their cheese blintzes! Oy, are they good!

I was going to spell it that way. Yes, matzoh ball is easier but far less interesting.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is no association between abortion and placenta previa. None.


Sorry Wombat, but you shouldn't speak with such finality because in this instance you're wrong. Don't take my word for it though, check it out for yourself.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000900.htm

Placenta previa occurs in 1 out of 200 pregnancies. It is more common in women who have:
Abnormally shaped uterus 
Many previous pregnancies
Multiple pregnancy (twins, triplets, etc.)
*Scarring on the lining of the uterus, due to history of surgery, c-section, previous pregnancy, or abortion.*


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## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

SQM said:


> I knew that was a nutty post. Thanks Wombat for setting it straight.


Not nutty SQM...accurate! See my post to Wombat above.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> There is no association to reason or truth in almost anything I've read that she's posted.


...and you can read my post to SQM and above that my post to Wombat!

Apology accepted!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Gerslay said:


> ...and you can read up to my post to SQM and above that my post to Wombat!
> 
> Apology accepted!


There's no apology to accept. Isn't that more than a bit arrogant to think there was? 
I wasn't stating that there was NO association, just that there wasn't as direct or significant a correlation as joeysomma stated. Placenta previa is caused by many things and effects many women who HAVENT had an abortion. Your post states just that. I was also speaking in general terms and stand by my statement. A lot of joeysommas posts take things way out of context and are not true. We have proven that. She takes parts of things people say and leaves out others that might disagree or prove her point invalid. She also takes out words that would make a statement go towards the positive or negative, depending on which way she wants to blow. This is what I was stating.


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> There's no apology to accept. Isn't that more than a bit arrogant to think there was?
> I wasn't stating that there was NO association, just that there wasn't as direct or significant a correlation as joeysomma stated. Placenta previa is caused by many things and effects many women who HAVENT had an abortion. Your post states just that. I was also speaking in general terms and stand by my statement. A lot of joeysommas posts take things way out of context and are not true. We have proven that. She takes parts of things people say and leaves out others that might disagree or prove her point invalid. She also takes out words that would make a statement go towards the positive or negative, depending on which way she wants to blow. This is what I was stating.


You need to lighten up NC...its just good natured ribbing.

And please don't then get into a big diatribe about what you like and don't like about someone else's post.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Gerslay said:


> You need to lighten up NC...its just good natured ribbing.
> 
> And please don't then get into a big diatribe about what you like and don't like about someone else's post.


You are right, gerslay. For assuming your post was negative I WILL apologize. I think I should not have responded until I slept. I have been getting very little of that lately. As I'm sure you know from your own experience or with that of others, lack of sleep can make one very cranky and take things personally and out of context. The sandman is calling my name and knocking on my door...

On that note, I will bid adieu. Good night!


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> You are right, gerslay. For assuming your post was negative I WILL apologize. I think I should not have responded until I slept. I have been getting very little of that lately. As I'm sure you know from your own experience or with that of others, lack of sleep can make one very cranky and take things personally and out of context. The sandman is calling my name and knocking on my door...
> 
> On that note, I will bid adieu. Good night!


Thanks! Good night to you too!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Gerslay said:


> Thanks! Good night to you too!


 :thumbup: :thumbup:  

I'm almost there...


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> Sorry Wombat, but you shouldn't speak with such finality because in this instance you're wrong. Don't take my word for it though, check it out for yourself.
> 
> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000900.htm
> 
> ...


Since abortion implies previous pregnancy, how can you tell whether it was the abortion or simply the earlier pregnancy that caused it?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Happy birthday!!! What kind of food did you have? Ever since I was a kid, I have always preferred spaghetti for my bday.
> 
> You wish you had gone to MY deli? Aren't you in the city that these kind of delis were CREATED? This deli is quite good. Their black and white cookies are the best I have ver had. And their cheese blintzes! Oy, are they good!
> 
> I was going to spell it that way. Yes, matzoh ball is easier but far less interesting.


We went to a local restaurant. There isn't a single kosher deli in my neighborhood, though we have three kosher burger joints. No pastrami - bah humbug.


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Fish kishka? Sounds awful. Really, it sounds funny, like a Mel Brooks song. I've only had kishka with some kind of starch inside it.


True Polish kishka has pig blood in it.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> There is a property near here that the Diocese has decided to sell.
> Three decent sized lots for a $150,000,000. We laughed and laughed. Guess they want to hold onto that. They must think they are in the middle of Philadelphia


Jaysus. Not a hundred fifty million, a million and a half!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You have that right. I must have kicked myself for a half hour last night before sleeping for evern going there.



damemary said:


> I just realized something while trying to catch up on this thread. It isn't worth my time.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

HAHAHAA, you don't read any better than I type.  
What I wrote was a 50 million per lot, what they are is 500,000 per lot.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Where are you? $50,000 per lot wouldn't be uncommon here.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> $50 million, not $50 thousand.


Too bad I went to bed before seeing my error. Maybe in Manhattan... $500,000. for empty lots. 
They had to have the buildings torn down, too much danger.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Hope you really enjoyed your celebration.



Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I absolutely want to join you.We went out for a wonderful dinner Sunday night to celebrate my birthday, but now I wish I had gone to your deli - much more interesting.
> 
> I would probably spell it k'neidlach, but who knows whether it's right? Matzoh balls is so much easier.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

I end up doing that all the time, because I can't resist responding to something and lose my place as I try to go back. 
It has put me in a bad spot at times, someone will complain about a lack of any answer to some trick question. 
Because we all know one individual post is SOOOOOooooo important nobody should skip any.



Camacho said:


> I've taken to skipping a lot of pages on this thread. Wherever the link in my e-mail dumps me, I look at that page and the next one, then skip one and look at the next, then skip two and look at the next, and so forth, either increasing the number of pages I skip by one, or doubling the number of pages I skip. I started off reading every single page, but that is a great way to stay up all night and not accomplish anything. And I have had enough nights here lately when I stayed up all night for better reasons.
> 
> Love you all.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> What type of meat goes into your kishka?


Don't want to step on toes, but I make it some times. Made at home you can control the ingredients, using olive oil and whole wheat matzo meal.

Don't know about her recipe, or if she gets it as take out at a deli, but I like to make mine vegetarian. My recipe is pretty much the same as the one on the Joy of Kosher web site.

Prep Time : 30 min
Cook Time : 1 hour
Ready Time : 1 hour, 30 min

Servings
Ingredients

3/4 cup Oil Shmaltz can be used making the kishka meat
1 large Onion coarsely chopped
2 Carrots coarsely chopped
1 Celery Stalk coarsely chopped
2 1/2 teaspoons Salt
1 teaspoon Paprika
1 pinch Pepper
1 1/2 cups matza meal
I add a couple of cloves garlic because I like all things garlic
I add an egg or the egg left over from brushing the challa before I bake it

Directions

Blend/ Mix in food processor until pureed. Form into loaves and wrap in foil. Bake at 350 for one hour. Chill, Slice, Rewarm and Serve.

Someone asked why bake then rewarm. It firms up and the flavors marry better if you bake and chill. I rewarm by sauteing in olive oil for a crisp exterior.

It is nice with pot roast and soaks up the gravy.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> There is a property near here that the Diocese has decided to sell.
> Three decent sized lots for a $150,000,000. We laughed and laughed. Guess they want to hold onto that. They must think they are in the middle of Philadelphia


Philly has enough problems that it wouldn't toss $150 mil for some lots. If they wanted it badly enough they would use eminent domain. That is the way government entities steal property.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> If you have never had matzoh balls in chicken soup before, I highly suggest you try it. If prepared the right way, they are quite good! The trick is not making them too dense. My mom would pat them down and they would be as hard as rocks. My gm made them perfect. The fluffier, the better!


My grandmother made "floaters" and they were just firm enough and fluffy. My husband's Nana made "sinkers" that could be used as paperweights. Tasty if you didn't break a tooth, but not as succulent as my grandmother's.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Man in a Jewish restaurant orders matzoh ball soup and loves it. Tells the waiter, "The matzoh balls were delicious. What other part of the matzoh do you people eat?"
> 
> A matzoh is a "slice" of unleavened bread, like a very large cracker with very little taste. If you crunch one up into pieces the size of raw oats, you have what's called matzoh meal. Mix it with egg, oil water, salt, maybe onion, roll it into small balls and drop it in boiling water and you get matzoh balls. Really good in chicken soup.
> 
> Better yet, http://food52.com/recipes/21272-joan-nathan-s-chosen-matzo-ball-soup


ROFLAO! I'll think of this anytime I eat something shaped like a ball.

Thanks for sharing. I looked at the recipe. It was quite different than I'd thought. I was quite surprised by the definition of schmaltz. My favorite part of chicken soup is the veggies. So I think I'll stick with my old recipe. I am intrigued by the matzoh balls though. Perhaps, instead of my noodles?


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Maybe Cookie can tell you what a kreplach is.


Kreplach are won ton's Jewish cousins.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't like any Ashkenazi fish dish. They are always so " fishy". This is bc in Eastern Europe, Jews did not have access to fresh fish and so they had to pickle, smoke, or other methods in order to preserve them. Old fish=stinky fish! as far as I'm concerned. I do not like lox or pickled herring, which are both big favorites among a lot of my people. Since the Sephardic Jews were generally located closer to bodies of water, they have more fresh fish dishes that are a little more appealing. Their food also tends to be less heavy due to their location and the surrounding cultures.
> 
> Kreplach is a dumpling that is also commonly found in chicken soup. It may or may not contain meat. I have not had borscht since my bubbie (great grandma) was alive. One of my favorites is Lentil soup.


I make pareve borscht every Passover. My husband's Hebrew birthday is the second seder and borscht is a favorite of his, but never the bottled kind. It is my birthday present to him.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I certainly have and will happily do so in the future! I like beef and veggie kishka. I didn't know there was fish kishka!


I never heard of fish kishka either. Gefilte fish is probably as close to the idea as you can get. The bottled kind is such an abomination compared to home made or even the frozen loaf I get in the Kosher department of my super market. Last time I got it I poached it with carrots and onions, then used the stock to make a cod chowder.


----------



## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Gerslay said:


> You need to lighten up NC...its just good natured ribbing.
> 
> And please don't then get into a big diatribe about what you like and don't like about someone else's post.


Good natured? More like condescending.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I said there were psychological and sociological studies that show that people do the "right" thing. Altruism is a huge concept in that. Motivation is another, evolutionary psychology is yet another. Of course there are 2 sides of every coin, a balance. There are evils bc there is good, there is suffering bc there is joy, etc. there is psychosocial research that states that people are horrible (Milgram experiment, 1961), as well as research that states the opposite. The specific research does not come to mind at this moment, but if I find it soon I will certainly send it to you. The most substantial I can think of right now are the many studies on altruism.
> 
> I know, and trust me I wish I had all of my books and research papers. I know you don't know me, but when it comes to psychology and social behavior, please give me the benefit of the doubt.
> 
> I fear you are right in some respects in general but not this one specifically. I think that bc we live in a global society we are made more aware of the atrocities that humans commit. If the Holocaust happened now, it wouldn't have taken as long for the US to form a strong enough public opinion for the government to get involved after citizens saw Instagram photos of the death camps and ghettos. I think that what is getting worse is complacency when it comes to our government and it's corporate puppet master.


I've never formally studied psychology, but I'm very familiar with the Milgram experiment. I know that other researchers have copied his experiment and gotten the same results. IMO, I think that the human psyche is driven by a group mentality. People will act in any way that is accepted by those around them. And that, sometimes acceptance is granted simply by lack of negative judgment. IMO, sometime in the 60s or 70s, people became more self centered. The whole "if it feels good do it" movement. We were encouraged to be selfish and to do whatever we wanted. Since that era, I've seen a change in the group mentality. While we might inwardly condemn other people's actions, we no longer do so outwardly. IMO, this is why we're seeing so many more crimes against children. No longer do the crowds of people show their outrage and disapproval. We all sit behind our televisions and shake our heads.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Didn't she say $150 million? So isn't that $50 million each? There are few properties worth that much even in CA, which boasts some of the most expensive properties. I don't think that there are any private lots worth that much that don't already have a sructure, plumbing, electricity, phone...


That was pointed out to me. But I'd still like to know where that was at.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> We went to a local restaurant. There isn't a single kosher deli in my neighborhood, though we have three kosher burger joints. No pastrami - bah humbug.


Happiest of B'days to Our Precious Pearl. Many more and Zi-ga-zunt.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Matzoh is unleavened bread (like a big cracker). It's what the Jews ate when they were fleeing Egypt. The story goes that they didn't have time for it to rise, and now their descendent seat it during the week of Passover. We use the "meal" (matzoh meal) to make matzoh balls. It's a fluffy delicious "bread" ball, essentially. We use matzoh meal mainly during Passover to substitute not being able to have anything with yeast or grains. Matzoh farfel is basically like broken up crackers we use with different foods, but mainly we put it in our matzoh ball soup.
> 
> If you have never had matzoh balls in chicken soup before, I highly suggest you try it. If prepared the right way, they are quite good! The trick is not making them too dense. My mom would pat them down and they would be as hard as rocks. My gm made them perfect. The fluffier, the better!


Thanks for explaining. My bible just refers to it as unleavened bread, or or manna. I didn't know that's what it was. I think I'd like to try it.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for explaining. My bible just refers to it as unleavened bread, or or manna. I didn't know that's what it was. I think I'd like to try it.


Have you never received Communion? Nearly every Protestant church I've ever shared in the Communion service serves Matzoh for the breaking of the bread.

Also, Matzoh is a common staple in European households, or at least in my family it was.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> My sis is the same way. I like them a lot, but they can get tiresome. Besides, I am not the biggest chicken soup fan. <gasp!>. I know, my ancestors would be spinning in their graves. However, matzoh ball soup is the only way I can eat chicken soup. Matzoh balls complete chicken soup, IMO. In fact, I've never seen just plain matzoh balls, only ever in soup. Also in soup with kreplach. Ever had that?


On my mother's side, I am Norwegian. My Grandma made a lot of dumplings. It sounds like they are similar to matzoh balls. We had both soft and hard (unleavened) dumplings. Mmmmm!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Gerslay said:


> Sorry Wombat, but you shouldn't speak with such finality because in this instance you're wrong. Don't take my word for it though, check it out for yourself.
> 
> http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000900.htm
> 
> ...


There is absolutely no way that placenta previa can be absolutely put down to any one cause. The data in your link is statistical which doesn't make it absolute.

Hope you have a great trip by the way Gerslay.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Yah, there's a reason for that. NO ONE likes it! Lol! You can put anything in kishka. Do you have it with the gravy? You HAVE to have it with the gravy. Ok, now I think I need to go to dinner at the only deli in my area, which is about 13 miles away. Not too bad since it's all freeway driving. I need to have some kishka and "chicken in a pot", which is a huge bowl filled with chicken soup, kaneidelah <purl, help me with the spelling of that one> (matzoh balls) and kreplach. Mmmmm. Ooh! And a pastrami sandwich on rye with brown deli mustard. Now THATS what I'm talking about! Yummmmmeeeeeeeee....    .
> 
> Want to join me? Lol!


OK, you guys! Help us out here! What is kishka and kreplach?


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Don't want to step on toes, but I make it some times. Made at home you can control the ingredients, using olive oil and whole wheat matzo meal.
> 
> Don't know about her recipe, or if she gets it as take out at a deli, but I like to make mine vegetarian. My recipe is pretty much the same as the one on the Joy of Kosher web site.
> 
> ...


Thanks Marilyn, I am going to make this tonight! Haven't made kishka before, I have a dear friend who makes it regularly for Shabbat Dinner. She does a mean vegetarian kishka. Reminds me of Cornish Pasties!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes, I absolutely want to join you.We went out for a wonderful dinner Sunday night to celebrate my birthday, but now I wish I had gone to your deli - much more interesting.
> 
> I would probably spell it k'neidlach, but who knows whether it's right? Matzoh balls is so much easier.


Purl, I hope you had a wonderful birthday! Belated birthday wishes!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Have you never received Communion? Nearly every Protestant church I've ever shared in the Communion service serves Matzoh for the breaking of the bread.
> 
> Also, Matzoh is a common staple in European households, or at least in my family it was.


In the churches I've attended, the communion bread was never referred to as matzoh. It was called a "wafer". One church I attended just used grocery store bread cut up into little cubes.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In the churches I've attended, the communion bread was never referred to as matzoh. It was called a "wafer". One church I attended just used grocery store bread cut up into little cubes.


It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.

Of course, it doesn't matter what type of bread or product is used; but if you attended a Protestant Church, I meant you probably had eaten Matzoh, but may not realize you did.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl

HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
May you celebrate MANY MORE BIRTHDAYS in good health and share them with us. Huck


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.
> 
> Of course, it doesn't matter what type of bread or product is used; but if you attended a Protestant Church, I meant you probably had eaten Matzoh, but may not realize you did.


Yup! I know that the Lutheran church calls it a communion wafer. That's the church I grew up in.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> In the churches I've attended, the communion bread was never referred to as matzoh. It was called a "wafer". One church I attended just used grocery store bread cut up into little cubes.


I grant you it was a LONGGggggg time ago, that is what we had as well, and it in no way resembled matzoh.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yup! I know that the Lutheran church calls it a communion wafer. That's the church I grew up in.


That explains it as the Lutheran Churches I know of use Communion 'wafers' like the Catholics do. I'd forgotten about that.


----------



## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.
> 
> Of course, it doesn't matter what type of bread or product is used; but if you attended a Protestant Church, I meant you probably had eaten Matzoh, but may not realize you did.[/quote
> 
> ...


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

And now they are going gluten free. 
**********************************************


Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.
> ...


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> We went to a local restaurant. There isn't a single kosher deli in my neighborhood, though we have three kosher burger joints. No pastrami - bah humbug.


I feel ya. My favorite food is Mediterranean and I used to have to travel 15 or 17 miles to get to one. There's one somewhat nearby now, but it's not as good. This other place makes the best baklava and dalmas, and their falafel is perfectly crispy on the outside, fluffy on the inside... Their chicken and gyros are amazing too. No schwarma, though.

How can something be kosher and NOT carry pastrami? Sheesh.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> True Polish kishka has pig blood in it.


Never had true polish kishka. That sounds disgusting.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Don't want to step on toes, but I make it some times. Made at home you can control the ingredients, using olive oil and whole wheat matzo meal.
> 
> Don't know about her recipe, or if she gets it as take out at a deli, but I like to make mine vegetarian. My recipe is pretty much the same as the one on the Joy of Kosher web site.
> 
> ...


Thanks, marylinknits knits!! Looks delish!

So you don't use a casing?


----------



## Gerslay (Oct 4, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> There is absolutely no way that placenta previa can be absolutely put down to any one cause. The data in your link is statistical which doesn't make it absolute.
> 
> Hope you have a great trip by the way Gerslay.


I acknowledge that placenta previa can result from many causes. My post was just relaying an experience of a woman I know who said that was the diagnosis she received from her doctor. How he determined it, I do not know.

Thanks for the bon voyage!


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## maysmom (Sep 22, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Never had true polish kishka. That sounds disgusting.


Yes, indeed. My mother used to eat it all the time till she and her cousin had the misfortune to ask what it was made of. I think I am one of the few Polish people who doesn't like kielbasa.

There's an old polka song, "Who Stole the Kishka?"


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

To every one who has been talking about chicken soup with matzoh balls, I have to say I think there's a conspiracy (and a pretty constructive one...) going on here because the next time I go to the grocery store I'll have to buy matzohs and make chicken soup just to try the matzoh balls. I am sure they will be wonderful and give me one more starchy thing to put in soups for variety. The kishkas sound pretty darn good, too.

I had leftover juices from roasting a Cornish game hen a couple of nights ago and made my quickie chicken noodle soup for lunch yesterday. Game hen juices plus some plain chicken stock, carrots and celery diced pretty small and Chinese noodles broken into short lengths. Liquids and vegies put together. Cook until vegies are tender. Add cooked noodles and diced leftover game hen. It takes a few minutes longer than opening a can, but my mother loves it and will consume a bunch. (I am trying to put some weight on her...) OK, so technically I made Cornish game hen soup. Let's not quibble about that.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ROFLAO! I'll think of this anytime I eat something shaped like a ball.
> 
> Thanks for sharing. I looked at the recipe. It was quite different than I'd thought. I was quite surprised by the definition of schmaltz. My favorite part of chicken soup is the veggies. So I think I'll stick with my old recipe. I am intrigued by the matzoh balls though. Perhaps, instead of my noodles?


My mom makes her chicken soup chock full of carrots and celery. She uses the matzoh balls instead of noodles, but so,ermines adds these short, thin noodles as well. You can add the matzoh balls to any soup, but they seem to go best with chicken soup


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Kreplach are won ton's Jewish cousins.


 :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've never formally studied psychology, but I'm very familiar with the Milgram experiment. I know that other researchers have copied his experiment and gotten the same results. IMO, I think that the human psyche is driven by a group mentality. People will act in any way that is accepted by those around them. And that, sometimes acceptance is granted simply by lack of negative judgment. IMO, sometime in the 60s or 70s, people became more self centered. The whole "if it feels good do it" movement. We were encouraged to be selfish and to do whatever we wanted. Since that era, I've seen a change in the group mentality. While we might inwardly condemn other people's actions, we no longer do so outwardly. IMO, this is why we're seeing so many more crimes against children. No longer do the crowds of people show their outrage and disapproval. We all sit behind our televisions and shake our heads.


You have some very valid points. Yes, the group mentality did change around that time, and much of OIR decisions and actions are based on our society and culture. However, there are still "subgroups" of people who will not stand by and let tragedy happen. These people ARE few and far between IMO, but enough still exist. We have become selfish and complacent, expecting someone else to do the work for us (the bystander effect).


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> That was pointed out to me. But I'd still like to know where that was at.


Haha, I just read she made a goof and it is supposed to be 500,000 per lot. That sounds much more reasonable, depending on the size lot and location. I have not seen a lot that is even 100 acres that is that expensive in CA that hasn't been developed. 500,000 is actually on the lower side for property with houses on it here.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks for explaining. My bible just refers to it as unleavened bread, or or manna. I didn't know that's what it was. I think I'd like to try it.


It's dry and bland. My favorite is with whipped cream cheese and a little bit of salt. The cream cheese has to be whipped, otherwise it's too hard to schmear on the matzoh. Peanut butter, Nutella and bananas on matzoh are also very good. During Passover, some people make matzoh pizza, but the matzoh get soggy. 
You should try it! I know many a non-Jew who eat it all year round as a substitute for crackers and most bread. I usually limit my consumption to Passover, but only for the sake of tradition.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

damemary said:


> I'm only answering for myself. I refuse to devote time and energy (Known as doing someone's homework for them.)just to engage in an endless argument, signifying nothing. I'll knit instead.


Keep responding and proving what an idiot you really are. That question was to SQM knowing the proof would not be found, not you and certainly wasn't in need of your comment. In your haste to make a "cute and humorous" comment, all you accomplish is showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Definitely knit instead of commenting, you'll do us all a favor.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> My mom makes her chicken soup chock full of carrots and celery. She uses the matzoh balls instead of noodles, but so,ermines adds these short, thin noodles as well. You can add the matzoh balls to any soup, but they seem to go best with chicken soup


I'm going to try it when the weather cools down a bit. It sounds good.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> On my mother's side, I am Norwegian. My Grandma made a lot of dumplings. It sounds like they are similar to matzoh balls. We had both soft and hard (unleavened) dumplings. Mmmmm!


That does sound good. If they were stuffed with something, it might have been more like kreplach. 
.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OK, you guys! Help us out here! What is kishka and kreplach?


Kishka is like a sausage. It is (usually) cow intestine stuffed with whatever meat/veggies/fish you want. It seems marylinknits knits makes hers without the casing. It is traditionally served with gravy. My gp ate it with cabbage.

Kreplach is a dumpling usually stuffed with ground beef or something that also goes into chicken soup. It is not as common in mainstream restaurants as k'neidelah (matzoh balls). Whenever my sis would order soup that had them both, I would eat the kreplach, she would eat the k'neidelah.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I love how the pope says that we should redistribute wealth throughout the world but apparently thinks it doesn't apply to them.


when it comes down to it, how many people would actually redistribute their wealth? Too few.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.
> 
> Of course, it doesn't matter what type of bread or product is used; but if you attended a Protestant Church, I meant you probably had eaten Matzoh, but may not realize you did.


Growing up, when someone would describe a "communion wafer" I would say " sounds like matzoh."


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> That does sound good. If they were stuffed with something, it might have been more like kreplach.
> .


My favorite was when Grandma would make hard dumplings and cool them in the fridge. Then she'd cook bacon, hamburgers and onions together and then fry the cut up dumplings in the grease. Mmmmmm! She always said, "Don't tell anybody we eat dumplings. They'll think we're poor". Oh, but we LOVED her dumplings. I've never been able to make them as good as hers. She never had a recipe and knew how to get them just right.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

maysmom said:


> Yes, indeed. My mother used to eat it all the time till she and her cousin had the misfortune to ask what it was made of. I think I am one of the few Polish people who doesn't like kielbasa.
> 
> There's an old polka song, "Who Stole the Kishka?"


Haha that's funny!

There is a YouTube video called " who stole the kishka?" I have to check it out.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Kishka is like a sausage. It is (usually) cow intestine stuffed with whatever meat/veggies/fish you want. It seems marylinknits knits makes hers without the casing. It is traditionally served with gravy. My gp ate it with cabbage.
> 
> Kreplach is a dumpling usually stuffed with ground beef or something that also goes into chicken soup. It is not as common in mainstream restaurants as k'neidelah (matzoh balls). Whenever my sis would order soup that had them both, I would eat the kreplach, she would eat the k'neidelah.


Thank you, NC! I wouldn't have thought of stuffing a dumpling but it sounds very good. I need to expand my diet.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> To every one who has been talking about chicken soup with matzoh balls, I have to say I think there's a conspiracy (and a pretty constructive one...) going on here because the next time I go to the grocery store I'll have to buy matzohs and make chicken soup just to try the matzoh balls. I am sure they will be wonderful and give me one more starchy thing to put in soups for variety. The kishkas sound pretty darn good, too.
> 
> I had leftover juices from roasting a Cornish game hen a couple of nights ago and made my quickie chicken noodle soup for lunch yesterday. Game hen juices plus some plain chicken stock, carrots and celery diced pretty small and Chinese noodles broken into short lengths. Liquids and vegies put together. Cook until vegies are tender. Add cooked noodles and diced leftover game hen. It takes a few minutes longer than opening a can, but my mother loves it and will consume a bunch. (I am trying to put some weight on her...) OK, so technically I made Cornish game hen soup. Let's not quibble about that.


Yes, it IS a conspiracy. Darn you for figuring it out!!! :twisted: :twisted:

Your soup sounds DELISH!! My mom uses those kind of noodles in her chicken soup as well. I don't know how much weight will be put onto your mother for Cornish game hen soup! If you want, I can send you a recipe for cauliflower and cheese soup dh and granny love. That's MUCH more fattening! Lol!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> when it comes down to it, how many people would actually redistribute their wealth? Too few.


Ah, yes! But there are plenty of people who want to redistribute somebody else's wealth.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I'm going to try it when the weather cools down a bit. It sounds good.


One of my favorite soups in the world is a summer soup. Gazpacho is a chilled and finely chopped/puréed vegetable soup. Very healthy and verrrrrrry delicious. I'm a soup person. Lentil soup is another one of my favorites.

Just a little FYI about lentils: they are very good for lowering bad cholesterol. Dh and I have the genetic high cholesterol, so I have done a lot of research into food that will lower the bad and/or raise the good cholesterol.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> One of my favorite soups in the world is a summer soup. Gazpacho is a chilled and finely chopped/puréed vegetable soup. Very healthy and verrrrrrry delicious. I'm a soup person. Lentil soup is another one of my favorites.
> 
> Just a little FYI about lentils: they are very good for lowering bad cholesterol. Dh and I have the genetic high cholesterol, so I have done a lot of research into food that will lower the bad and/or raise the good cholesterol.


I tried making lentil soup once. We didn't like it. :thumbdown:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My favorite was when Grandma would make hard dumplings and cool them in the fridge. Then she'd cook bacon, hamburgers and onions together and then fry the cut up dumplings in the grease. Mmmmmm! She always said, "Don't tell anybody we eat dumplings. They'll think we're poor". Oh, but we LOVED her dumplings. I've never been able to make them as good as hers. She never had a recipe and knew how to get them just right.


Mmm. That does sound good. My grandma and mom would say the same thing sometimes about certain foods. Lol.

My mom never followed recipes and my sibs and I have a helluva time trying to replicate dishes we have as kids. We never had the same thing twice!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, NC! I wouldn't have thought of stuffing a dumpling but it sounds very good. I need to expand my diet.


Oh it is! And that's a wonderful idea. I was lucky enough to have grown up in an area with very diverse food sources.

Have you ever tried falafel? It is basically a fried vegetarian meatball. Hummus? It is a chickpea dip, one of my personal favorites. Baklava? A pistachio and honey pastry. Schwarma? Shaved lamb, chicken, or beef. Pita bread? Comes in 2 forms-with or without a "pocket". These are all commonly found in Mediterranean cultures in some form or another.

I find it interesting that food seems to be a unifying theme.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I tried making lentil soup once. We didn't like it. :thumbdown:


I know others who don't either. I make mine with carrots, onions, celery, curry, and lemon with vegetable stock as the base.

What about split pea soup? That's another one of my favorites to make AND eat. And very very healthy (if you don't add the ham or bacon). My gg used to make hers with barley, but my recipe is too thick to add barley. My gm has since lost that recipe. :-(


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Are you suggesting that illegal aliens will stop and "check in" at the border? Keeping track of them would be a nightmare of accounting, IMO.


The recent influx of illegals are surrendering themselves to the border patrol. During their interview, the BP is obtaining whatever information they can get from the illegals. This information will help the courts decide the fate of the illegals should they bother to show up for their hearing. Less than 20% do the rest are in the wind.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh it is! And that's a wonderful idea. I was lucky enough to have grown up in an area with very diverse food sources.
> 
> Have you ever tried falafel? It is basically a fried vegetarian meatball. Hummus? It is a chickpea dip, one of my personal favorites. Baklava? A pistachio and honey pastry. Schwarma? Shaved lamb, chicken, or beef. Pita bread? Comes in 2 forms-with or without a "pocket". These are all commonly found in Mediterranean cultures in some form or another.
> 
> I find it interesting that food seems to be a unifying theme.


No to falafel. Hummus is OK, but I don't love it. Baklava? Mmmm! I've never had lamb but I like shaved chicken and beef(deli style). I've had pitas and like them.

Food is definitely the international language. We all love to eat!

My husband has an ancestor who was a Native American Indian. They passed down fry bread. Its really good. You take peices of the unbaked bread dough and fry them in Crisco or oil. They would top it with navy beans and ham but its good with everything. A little sugar and its like a donut.

Do you keep kosher?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I know others who don't either. I make mine with carrots, onions, celery, curry, and lemon with vegetable stock as the base.
> 
> What about split pea soup? That's another one of my favorites to make AND eat. And very very healthy (if you don't add the ham or bacon). My gg used to make hers with barley, but my recipe is too thick to add barley. My gm has since lost that recipe. :-(


Nope to split pea. I like soups heavy in veggies. Chicken, beef, Italian sausage... I LOVE barley in beef or hamburger soup! I have an awesome recipe for tortellini soup that we all love and a recipe for enchilada soup that's so fast and easy. But my hubby doesn't like that one. So I make it for lunch and invite somebody over.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> The recent influx of illegals are surrendering themselves to the border patrol. During their interview, the BP is obtaining whatever information they can get from the illegals. This information will help the courts decide the fate of the illegals should they bother to show up for their hearing. Less than 20% do the rest are in the wind.


I understood that the children were surrendering themselves to the border patrol. Are the adults, as well?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Or Cinncinati Chili? Its very different from regular chili. Hot pepper and cinnamon. Mmm!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> knitpresentgifts said:
> 
> 
> > It isn't referred to as Matzoh; it *is* Matzoh. I've only heard it called a wafer for what is served in Catholic churches.
> ...


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks, marylinknits knits!! Looks delish!
> 
> So you don't use a casing?


My Bubba made it meat with schmaltz and used the chicken neck as a casing. I am more careful with cholesterol, and if I make it pareve I can serve it during the 9 Days. I usually wrap it in lightly oiled parchment rather than foil.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> My mom makes her chicken soup chock full of carrots and celery. She uses the matzoh balls instead of noodles, but so,ermines adds these short, thin noodles as well. You can add the matzoh balls to any soup, but they seem to go best with chicken soup


I like to roast the carrots and onions and sometimes some julienne parsnip to caramelize them then put them in the broth. We also like to toss in some dill.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> It's dry and bland. My favorite is with whipped cream cheese and a little bit of salt. The cream cheese has to be whipped, otherwise it's too hard to schmear on the matzoh. Peanut butter, Nutella and bananas on matzoh are also very good. During Passover, some people make matzoh pizza, but the matzoh get soggy.
> You should try it! I know many a non-Jew who eat it all year round as a substitute for crackers and most bread. I usually limit my consumption to Passover, but only for the sake of tradition.


I use matzo meal and make a batch of matzo roll dough then press it out on a cookie sheet and bake it on the lowest shelf for about 10 minutes, then put pizza sauce and shredded cheese on it. Amazing that I have a choice of Passover sauces, not just Rokeach tomato mushroom sauce in a can and a choice of Les Petites cheeses as well, not just cream cheese. It makes a respectable pizza.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Kishka is like a sausage. It is (usually) cow intestine stuffed with whatever meat/veggies/fish you want. It seems marylinknits knits makes hers without the casing. It is traditionally served with gravy. My gp ate it with cabbage.
> 
> Kreplach is a dumpling usually stuffed with ground beef or something that also goes into chicken soup. It is not as common in mainstream restaurants as k'neidelah (matzoh balls). Whenever my sis would order soup that had them both, I would eat the kreplach, she would eat the k'neidelah.


Now that we have Kosher Chinese restaurants, we can get Kosher won tons, too.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I tried making lentil soup once. We didn't like it. :thumbdown:


If you jazz it up with chopped sauteed onions and celery and cook in chicken or vegetable broth you boost the flavor. Sometimes I also throw in a handful of baby spinach or chopped escarole. My grandmother's Italian friend showed me how to make escarole soup, and she would add lentils, barley or orzo to it.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh it is! And that's a wonderful idea. I was lucky enough to have grown up in an area with very diverse food sources.
> 
> Have you ever tried falafel? It is basically a fried vegetarian meatball. Hummus? It is a chickpea dip, one of my personal favorites. Baklava? A pistachio and honey pastry. Schwarma? Shaved lamb, chicken, or beef. Pita bread? Comes in 2 forms-with or without a "pocket". These are all commonly found in Mediterranean cultures in some form or another.
> 
> I find it interesting that food seems to be a unifying theme.


We have a dairy restaurant a few towns over that serves falafel on pita with chopped Israeli salad and tahini. Their turnover is such that it is always nice and fresh. Yum.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

There must be six million recipes for lentil soup. I don't think that I have ever been able to duplicate one that the family liked. 


Natureschampion said:


> I know others who don't either. I make mine with carrots, onions, celery, curry, and lemon with vegetable stock as the base.
> 
> What about split pea soup? That's another one of my favorites to make AND eat. And very very healthy (if you don't add the ham or bacon). My gg used to make hers with barley, but my recipe is too thick to add barley. My gm has since lost that recipe. :-(


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

War on babies.http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202057372534656&set=vb.1197081898&type=2&theater


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> No to falafel. Hummus is OK, but I don't love it. Baklava? Mmmm! I've never had lamb but I like shaved chicken and beef(deli style). I've had pitas and like them.
> 
> Food is definitely the international language. We all love to eat!
> 
> ...


I have had fry bread, it is very delicious. But not with navy beans, I'll have to make that one day. Granny would really enjoy it. My favorite hummuses are roasted garlic, roadies red pepper, or artichoke. Mmmmm.

I do not keep kosher, but I avoid pork products and though I like shellfish, I don't eat that but once every few years. Except around Christmas when dh's boss gives out a bunch of bacon. It's the good, thick slices of bacon that are irresistible. My mom doesn't keep kosher bc she likes bacon, though she doesn't eat it often. The kashrut laws are there for health and hygiene. I am selective in the sources I buy my meat from, so I don't worry so much about that. One day I will raise my own chickens. I don't eat much red meat as it is (cholesterol and the way we raise our cows), so I don't have to worry much about that, either. Only free range, organic, hormone and antibiotic free meats for me!! And no farmed fish.

BTW, I wanted to share something I thought you might find interesting. You mentioned that your bible (or church I don't remember, I'm sorry) referred to matzoh as "unleavened bread" or "manna", which g-d dispensed to the Jews while they wandered the desert. While matzoh is unleavened bread, manna is not. Manna was actually more like challah, which is a braided egg bread we have one holidays and Shabbat (our sabbath). It makes the best French toast! Anyways, traditionally we have 2 challahs on Shabbat to represent the idea that G-d gave them twice as much so they would not have to do the extra work of collecting the manna on the day of rest. We do not have challah on Passover bc it rises. There is egg matzoh, though, so that is a nice substitute. Although, you can't make French toast our of it! You can, however, make matzoh brye which is somewhat similar to French toast. I don't care for it but my sibs love it.

I told my dad about the interesting conversation we were having, as he is a very scholarly and learned man, and he reminded me about the manna thing.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Nope to split pea. I like soups heavy in veggies. Chicken, beef, Italian sausage... I LOVE barley in beef or hamburger soup! I have an awesome recipe for tortellini soup that we all love and a recipe for enchilada soup that's so fast and easy. But my hubby doesn't like that one. So I make it for lunch and invite somebody over.


Mmmmmmmmmm... Yummmmmm... I'm salivating right now. Soups are the best. You can get an entire meal in one pot! Plus, it's so easy to make extra and freeze it. That's what I do with my soups, chili, and spaghetti sauce. It's just as much work but we have meals for later when I get too busy to cook.

Il take your enchilada soup! Sounds really good!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Or Cinncinati Chili? Its very different from regular chili. Hot pepper and cinnamon. Mmm!


Never had it, but that does sound good. I put cinnamon in my spaghetti sauce. It gives it that little extra "something". I also put shredded carrots in mine and that really rounds it out.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> If I may insert a Jewish opinion, Nabisco Wheat Thins might be appropriate.


Lol! That's a great idea as I have heard so many people complain about the taste and texture of the wafers.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> BTW, I wanted to share something I thought you might find interesting. You mentioned that your bible (or church I don't remember, I'm sorry) referred to matzoh as "unleavened bread" or "manna", which g-d dispensed to the Jews while they wandered the desert. While matzoh is unleavened bread, manna is not.
> 
> I told my dad about the interesting conversation we were having, as he is a very scholarly and learned man, and he reminded me about the manna thing.


Natureschampion; Please stop telling Christians, of which I am one, what Matzoh and Manna is and how it was used, given by _God_ or what it symbolizes to Christians as outlined in the Bible. I am the one who discussed Matzoh (the Communion symbolic 'bread" ) served in many Protestant Churches with KFN. Manna was never part of the conversation and is not part of the Communion Table.

You are only serving to introduce and/or confuse the topic of discussion and frankly, until reminded by your father, didn't know what you are talking about in this instance or regarding Manna.

Therefore, I don't feel you should be explaining to Christians and those who know their Faith what you believe or think you know about a Faith that is not your own.

I haven't heard any Christians tell you about the Jewish beliefs, please recriporcate.

Thank you.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> My Bubba made it meat with schmaltz and used the chicken neck as a casing. I am more careful with cholesterol, and if I make it pareve I can serve it during the 9 Days. I usually wrap it in lightly oiled parchment rather than foil.


Ok, good to know. Thanks! I, too, need to be careful with cholesterol. Do the chicken necks have a lot? The only experience I have had with them is in the frigazee my mom makes every Pesach. Do you make frigazee?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Ok, good to know. Thanks! I, too, need to be careful with cholesterol. Do the chicken necks have a lot? The only experience I have had with them is in the frigazee my mom makes every Pesach. Do you make frigazee?


The chicken neck is fatty, like the rest of the chicken skin.

My grandmother made the fricassee with the pupiks. She used the necks and the smaller part of the wings for soup.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Natureschampion; Please stop telling Christians, of which I am one, what Matzoh and Manna is and how it was used, given by [ii]God[/i] or what it symbolizes to Christians as outlined in the Bible. I am the one who discussed Matzoh (the Communion symbolic 'bread" ) served in Protestant Churches with KFN. Manna was never part of the conversation and is not part of the Communion service.
> 
> You are only serving to introduce and/or confuse the topic of discussion and frankly, didn't' know what you are talking about in this instance until reminded by your father, so I don't feel you should be explaining to Christians and those who know their Faith what you believe about a Faith that is not your own.
> 
> ...


No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.

Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.

In this instance the "faith" is my own since matzoh is what the Jews ate when they left Egypt. This is the ORIGIN of matzoh and CANNOT be disputed. Manna was dispensed by G-d when MY people were wandering the desert. I was not educated by my father, only reminded as I learned that in Hebrew school many years ago. I wasn't telling her in the context of your wafers, but in the context of manna being different than matzoh, which it is. I never said that manna was part of the communion. Learn to read. The whole conversation started when we were talking about matzoh balls, which are a staple food for Jews around the world. So who better to explain things than a Jew? YOU obviously don't know what YOU are talking about. KFN was interested in what I, and fellow Jews, were saying about or foods. That's what the whole topic of conversation was about. It was about TRADITIONS, not religion.

I was not trying to introduce or confuse anything. The subject was introduced in another post and I expanded, which is my right. Or do I not have that right bc it goes against your beliefs? You are trying to introduce hatred and ignorance, and confuse people into silence and to believe what you do. I did not.

There have been MANY Christians who have told me about my faith, and that I am going to hell bc I don't believe what they do. But I suppose that is right bc it is what they believe? Again, what I said had nothing to do with faith. I did not tell her she was wrong in her beliefs, only that the Torah explains it differently. If you are going based on the Old Testament, be prepared for someone to bring up the Torah, as the ideas were stolen from it. I would never and have never told someone they are WRONG in their beliefs. I have been told over and over that I am wrong in mine.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> The chicken neck is fatty, like the rest of the chicken skin.
> 
> My grandmother made the fricassee with the pupiks. She used the necks and the smaller part of the wings for soup.


Oh! The pupiks are the best part! (Haha, I love Yiddish) My mom would also use the necks in soup.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

This is what KnitterFromNebraska said. 
Thanks for explaining. My bible just refers to it as unleavened bread, or or manna. I didn't know that's what it was. I think I'd like to try it.

Who cares about that other one?



Natureschampion said:


> No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.
> 
> Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.
> 
> ...


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Brava Nature!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> This is what KnitterFromNebraska said.
> Thanks for explaining. My bible just refers to it as unleavened bread, or or manna. I didn't know that's what it was. I think I'd like to try it.
> 
> Who cares about that other one?


I don't care, and haven't responded to anything she has written. I guess when ANYONE tries to put me in my place about the difference in our beliefs I will stand up for myself. Check that-when anyone puts ANYONE down for believing something other than what they do, and tells them they have no right to express it, I will say something. Is it a waste of time? Maybe. But ignorance and hate are WRONG, and I felt it needed to be said.

I also felt it needed to be said in defense of KFN, as KPG was twisting her words as well. I did not want her to think that just because KPG has a sequoia sized stick up her tush, that I thought she did as well. I have respect for KFN, even if I don't agree with her. From what I can tell, she is open minded and considerate of others. I much like conversing with her. She seems to be respectful in others beliefs, even if they differ from her own. If someone states something she doesn't agree with or doesn't know about it, she will ask for "proof" not to belittle them like the others, but to gain an understanding. I respect and admire that.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

The only way we build bridges is through sharing. There was nothing wrong with KFN's question or statement. It has been so long since I have looked at a Bible I have no idea what it refers to and it doesn't matter to me. I just don't see any reason for an insertion that takes that form into a perfectly friendly dialogue. 
So much for all that respect for Jews.



Natureschampion said:


> I don't care, and haven't responded to anything she has written. I guess when ANYONE tries to put me in my place about the difference in our beliefs I will stand up for myself. Check that-when anyone puts ANYONE down for believing something other than what they do, and tells them they have no right to express it, I will say something. Is it a waste of time? Maybe. But ignorance and hate are WRONG, and I felt it needed to be said.
> 
> I also felt it needed to be said in defense of KFN, as KPG was twisting her words as well. I did not want her to think that just because KPG has a sequoia sized stick up her tush, that I thought she did as well. I have respect for KFN, even if I don't agree with her. From what I can tell, she is open minded and considerate of others. I much like conversing with her. She seems to be respectful in others beliefs, even if they differ from her own. If someone states something she doesn't agree with or doesn't know about it, she will ask for "proof" not to belittle them like the others, but to gain an understanding. I respect and admire that.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> The only way we build bridges is through sharing. There was nothing wrong with KFN's question or statement. It has been so long since I have looked at a Bible I have no idea what it refers to and it doesn't matter to me. I just don't see any reason for an insertion that takes that form into a perfectly friendly dialogue.
> So much for all that respect for Jews.


Has she ever claimed she (KPG) has respect for Jews? It doesn't seem to me like she has respect for anyone, even the Christians that don't follow her zany way of thinking. So I don't take it personally.

I appreciate that KFN is interested in learning what she doesn't know and will ask questions. I am the same way. I find other cultures and religions fascinating, and would rather get people's perspectives than read it in a book. When we do, we apply our own biases. It IS the only way to build bridges. And we find how much we have in common, besides our differences.

I have not read the Torah or midrash (explanations) in a very long time, either. That is why my father reminded me. There is SO much to take in! He has a photographic memory, so I'm not surprised. He also filled in as "rabbi" when ours had to go away for a short time on various occasions when our congregation was too small to have both a rabbi and a cantor. That was incredibly special and made us very proud of him. He is a scholar and a teacher, which is basically what a rabbi is. A rabbi is not our direct link to G-d. We can all communicate with g-d on our own. The rabbi is there to answer questions and give guidance. He's more of a therapist and teacher than anything else. At least that's how a lot of us view the position.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

That respect is the foundation of Christianity. The Jewish experience is not really about Jews at all, in some people's eyes, it is the lead up to the introduction of the Savior, Jesus Christ. So I have been told, at least. 
I view the Bible as a series of lessons, some others take it much more literally.



Natureschampion said:


> Has she ever claimed she (KPG) has respect for Jews? It doesn't seem to me like she has respect for anyone, even the Christians that don't follow her zany way of thinking. So I don't take it personally.
> 
> I appreciate that KFN is interested in learning what she doesn't know and will ask questions. I am the same way. I find other cultures and religions fascinating, and would rather get people's perspectives than read it in a book. When we do, we apply our own biases. It IS the only way to build bridges. And we find how much we have in common, besides our differences.
> 
> I have not read the Torah or midrash (explanations) in a very long time, either. That is why my father reminded me. There is SO much to take in! He has a photographic memory, so I'm not surprised. He also filled in as "rabbi" when ours had to go away for a short time on various occasions when our congregation was too small to have both a rabbi and a cantor. That was incredibly special and made us very proud of him. He is a scholar and a teacher, which is basically what a rabbi is. A rabbi is not our direct link to G-d. We can all communicate with g-d on our own. The rabbi is there to answer questions and give guidance. He's more of a therapist and teacher than anything else. At least that's how a lot of us view the position.


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## lovethelake (Apr 6, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.
> 
> Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.
> 
> ...


WOW "Time out Redskins" (little football lingo)

The old testament is part of both of our heritages. Jesus , who I believe is one part of the Trinity was Jewish. The Mass uses many of the sacred rituals of the Last Supper. I will admit that I am not as well versed with our 'Old Testament, but I love the Jewish traditions and history that has affected my Church in such a deep and profound way. I took a 12 week course on the Old Testament and was so blown away with it's depth of heritage.

I will ask the question, because I truly do not know the answer. I thought the Torah and the Bible's Old Testament were basically the same. That the Bible was an attempt to translate it from Hebrew (?) into Latin. Am I wrong?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> That respect is the foundation of Christianity. The Jewish experience is not really about Jews at all, in some people's eyes, it is the lead up to the introduction of the Savior, Jesus Christ. So I have been told, at least.
> I view the Bible as a series of lessons, some others take it much more literally.


That's what I have heard, too. It's like how they support Israel and the Jews right to their homeland as the "chosen people", only to be destroyed, so the " savior" can come. It has nothing to do with us, it has to do with them getting into heaven and the end of the world.

I totally agree. Personally, I am not a religious Jew. I made this choice as an adult, and my people still love and respect me. Most Jews (except most orthodox and Hasidic Jews) do not believe in our bible any more than we believe in aesops fables or Nordic mythology. That's what it is; it is Jewish mythology. It is a history lesson and explanations for human behavior. There are a lot of "laws", but most of them are on how to treat fellow humans (not just Jews) and animals, and how to be hygienic and keep a clean home. They are practical laws. There are only one or a handful of laws (out of the 613) that have to do with G-d. When I speak of the Torah, I speak of it as it was written, not my interpretation of it. We all have our interpretations, and one is not more right or wrong than another.

In fact, we are now ALLOWED to proselytize, we are not allowed to tell people they are wrong for their beliefs. We are encouraged to doubt what we are told, to ask questions and seek answers. Judaism is actually a very respectful and open minded religion.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Of course, the whole thing varies wildly. Most people, it seems, who identify themselves as Christian view the lessons of the Holy Bible in much the same way as you describe. As with any group there could be a pie chart of 30% believe this, 6% believe that, and the 30 might be those mainstream lesson people with all sorts of adherants in between.


Natureschampion said:


> That's what I have heard, too. It's like how they support Israel and the Jews right to their homeland as the "chosen people", only to be destroyed, so the " savior" can come. It has nothing to do with us, it has to do with them getting into heaven and the end of the world.
> 
> I totally agree. Personally, I am not a religious Jew. I made this choice as an adult, and my people still love and respect me. Most Jews (except most orthodox and Hasidic Jews) do not believe in our bible any more than we believe in aesops fables or Nordic mythology. That's what it is; it is Jewish mythology. It is a history lesson and explanations for human behavior. There are a lot of "laws", but most of them are on how to treat fellow humans (not just Jews) and animals, and how to be hygienic and keep a clean home. They are practical laws. There are only one or a handful of laws (out of the 613) that have to do with G-d. When I speak of the Torah, I speak of it as it was written, not my interpretation of it. We all have our interpretations, and one is not more right or wrong than another.
> 
> In fact, we are now ALLOWED to proselytize, we are not allowed to tell people they are wrong for their beliefs. We are encouraged to doubt what we are told, to ask questions and seek answers. Judaism is actually a very respectful and open minded religion.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

lovethelake said:


> WOW "Time out Redskins" (little football lingo)
> 
> The old testament is part of both of our heritages. Jesus , who I believe is one part of the Trinity was Jewish. The Mass uses many of the sacred rituals of the Last Supper. I will admit that I am not as well versed with our 'Old Testament, but I love the Jewish traditions and history that has affected my Church in such a deep and profound way. I took a 12 week course on the Old Testament and was so blown away with it's depth of heritage.
> 
> I will ask the question, because I truly do not know the answer. I thought the Torah and the Bible's Old Testament were basically the same. That the Bible was an attempt to translate it from Hebrew (?) into Latin. Am I wrong?


Haha, I appreciate your humor, LTL.

It is, and I'm sorry if my comments were derogatory in any way to you. I just don't appreciate it when people tell me that I am wrong, when my bible "fathered" theirs. You are right; the Torah and Old Testament are both a SHARED heritage. It irks me when people forget this and make the Torah inconsequential. I know of a Jewish professor of theology at a university in Tennessee She is one of the leading expertS on theology. She teaches that exact concept; that they are a shared heritage and to understand one religion and it's teachings, you must also understand the other. She also teaches that the New Testament is every bit as relevant to Jews as it is to Christians. She is a very enlightened woman and interesting to talk to.

I find the study of religions and bibles fascinating as well. It takes years and years to fully comprehend the words that are there and their meanings. And there are many different meanings.

As I understand it, the Old Testament is the (almost) direct translation of the Torah. There are a couple things I believe have been added, and meanings put to words that had a different meaning. (Like the Hebrew/Aramaic word for "virgin" actually means "Unmarried woman"). It was originally written in Aramaic, which is different from Hebrew.

Thank you for your input.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> Of course, the whole thing varies wildly. Most people, it seems, who identify themselves as Christian view the lessons of the Holy Bible in much the same way as you describe. As with any group there could be a pie chart of 30% believe this, 6% believe that, and the 30 might be those mainstream lesson people with all sorts of adherants in between.


Very true. Thanks!


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

efinition of Manna:
Manna was the supernatural food God gave to the Israelites during their 40-year wandering in the desert. The word manna means "What is it?" in Hebrew.

Not long after the Jewish people had escaped Egypt and crossed the Red Sea, they ran out of the food they had brought with them. They began to grumble, recalling the tasty meals they had enjoyed when they were slaves.

God told Moses he would rain down bread from heaven for the people. That evening quail came and covered the camp. The people killed the birds and ate their meat. The next morning, when the dew evaporated, a white substance covered the ground. The Bible describes manna as white like coriander seed and tasting like wafers made with honey.

Moses instructed the people to gather an omer, or about two quarts' worth, for each person each day. When some of the people tried to save extra, it became wormy and spoiled.

Manna appeared for six days in a row. On Fridays the Hebrews were to gather a double portion, because it did not appear on the next day, the Sabbath. And yet, the portion they saved for the Sabbath did not spoil.

Skeptics have tried to explain manna as a natural substance, such as a resin left behind by insects or a product of the tamarisk tree. However, the tamarisk substance appears only in June and July and does not spoil overnight.

God told Moses to save a jar of manna so future generations could see how the Lord provided for his people in the desert. Aaron filled a jar with an omer of manna and put it in the Ark of the Covenant, in front of the tablets of the Ten Commandments.

Exodus says the Jews ate manna every day for 40 years. Miraculously, when Joshua and the people came to the border of Canaan and ate the food of the promised land, manna stopped the next day and was never seen again.

In one form or another, bread is a recurring symbol of life in the Bible because it was the staple food of ancient times. Manna could be ground into flour and baked into bread; it was also called the bread of heaven.

More than 1,000 years later, Jesus Christ repeated the miracle of manna in the Feeding of the 5,000. The crowd following him was in the "wilderness" and he multiplied a few loaves of bread until everyone had eaten their fill.

Some scholars believe that Jesus' phrase, "Give us this day our daily bread" in the Lord's Prayer, is a reference to manna, meaning that we are to trust God to supply our physical needs one day at a time, as the Jews did in the desert.

Christ frequently referred to himself as bread: "the true Bread from heaven" (John 6:32), "the Bread of God" (John 6:33), "the Bread of life" (John 6:35, 48), and John 6:51:

"I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." (NIV)

Today, most Christian churches celebrate a communion service or Lord's Supper, in which the participants eat some form of bread, as Jesus commanded his followers to do at the Last Supper (Matthew 26:26).

The final mention of manna occurs in Revelation 2:17, "To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna..." One interpretation of this verse is that Christ supplies spiritual nourishment (hidden manna) as we wander through the wilderness of this world.
Bible References:
Exodus 16:31-35; Numbers 11:6-9; Deuteronomy 8:3, 16; Joshua 5:12; Nehemiah 9:20; Psalm 78:24; John 6:31, 49, 58; Hebrews 9:4; Revelation 2:17.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> One of my favorite soups in the world is a summer soup. Gazpacho is a chilled and finely chopped/puréed vegetable soup. Very healthy and verrrrrrry delicious. I'm a soup person. Lentil soup is another one of my favorites.
> 
> Just a little FYI about lentils: they are very good for lowering bad cholesterol. Dh and I have the genetic high cholesterol, so I have done a lot of research into food that will lower the bad and/or raise the good cholesterol.


I'm a soup person also. Gazpacho is delicious however, I made a tomato and orange chilled soup which was to die for. I'll try to find the recipe - so easy and so delicious.

I love pumpkin, sweet potato, broccoli and potato and leek soups. So easy, just chop up the vegies (I use 2 medium carrots in the pumpkin and sweet potato and one large onion in the soups and don't peel the carrots or sweet potato or plain potato), pile them into a large pot, crush 2 chicken stock cubes, salt, pepper and sometimes I add ground cumin and coriander spices. Fill pot to half way with water, cover and simmer till vegies are soft then blitz with a bar-mix.

I sometimes add a small amount of cream to the soups. Also, a can of chick peas added to the sweet potato soup is always delicious especially with the cumin and coriander spices. Yum.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

changed my mind- Nature can answer very well herself.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

double post


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Our NC handles it all with aplomb, I must say.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Natureschampion; Please stop telling Christians, of which I am one, what Matzoh and Manna is and how it was used, given by _God_ or what it symbolizes to Christians as outlined in the Bible. I am the one who discussed Matzoh (the Communion symbolic 'bread" ) served in many Protestant Churches with KFN. Manna was never part of the conversation and is not part of the Communion Table.
> 
> You are only serving to introduce and/or confuse the topic of discussion and frankly, until reminded by your father, didn't know what you are talking about in this instance or regarding Manna.
> 
> ...


She was sharing some knowledge she has, and did a good job. Why criticize?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> That's what I have heard, too. It's like how they support Israel and the Jews right to their homeland as the "chosen people", only to be destroyed, so the " savior" can come. It has nothing to do with us, it has to do with them getting into heaven and the end of the world.
> 
> I totally agree. Personally, I am not a religious Jew. I made this choice as an adult, and my people still love and respect me. Most Jews (except most orthodox and Hasidic Jews) do not believe in our bible any more than we believe in aesops fables or Nordic mythology. That's what it is; it is Jewish mythology. It is a history lesson and explanations for human behavior. There are a lot of "laws", but most of them are on how to treat fellow humans (not just Jews) and animals, and how to be hygienic and keep a clean home. They are practical laws. There are only one or a handful of laws (out of the 613) that have to do with G-d. When I speak of the Torah, I speak of it as it was written, not my interpretation of it. We all have our interpretations, and one is not more right or wrong than another.
> 
> In fact, we are now ALLOWED to proselytize, we are not allowed to tell people they are wrong for their beliefs. We are encouraged to doubt what we are told, to ask questions and seek answers. Judaism is actually a very respectful and open minded religion.


The Christians also support Israel (The Holy Lands) because there are many revered Christian sites spread throughout Israel. So there are two reasons why Christians are supporting Israel - The Rapture and the Relics in important Churches. Not all Christians support both, I would think, since no group is monolithic.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.
> 
> Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.
> 
> ...


You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.

My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.

KFN expressed she didn't understand what Matzoh actually was and that The Bible (she has said she is a Christian) mentioned Manna. KFN also did not know Matzoh it is often used by Protestant Churches when serving Communion. Presumably because KFN has admitted she was turned off by the Church and does not fellowship with a Church or congregation regularly. KFN was NOT talking about Manna being mentioned in the Torah, since she was speaking about the Christian Bible, which you now have revealed you DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

BTW: You NEVER mentioned the Torah when discussing how KFN brought up Manna being mentioned in her BIBLE, you said "The Bible" .... now you're saying, "the Torah."

I doubt you know the references in the Bible to Manna, as it is mentioned more than once. I asked you politely to not confuse readers by bring up Manna as it has nothing to do with Matzoh used on the Communion Table PERIOD.

I NEVER insulted your Jewish beliefs, foods or thoughts. You are rude to be intolerant of me expressing my opinion on MY beliefs, or thoughts to another.

I have NOT said anything either about the origin on Manna.

For you to state it is "your" Torah, "your Bible,"your experiences" and that the Torahs' "ideas were stolen" shows how ignorant and immature in your faith and knowledge you are.

For you to insult me for expressing my knowledge about ME and MY faith is absurd. It shows exactly who you are and your lack of tolerance and ability to attempt to understand what you do not know.

May GOD give you the ability to open your eyes, ears and heart so you can learn to understand, accept and tolerate others who are not you.


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation.
> 
> ...


 :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

SQM said:


> Brava Nature!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Our NC handles it all with aplomb, I must say.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.
> 
> ...


Arrogance such as this reply is what breeds ignorance, and contempt for the poster.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.
> 
> ...


Oh, please. Take that last sentence of yours, and follow your own prayer. You are the one doing the insulting, as usual. Don't ever talk about yourself and your faith in the same paragraph because you give Christianity a bad name. I much prefer Joeysomma, who has beliefs that she is passionate about and knows respect and humility. You know neither.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You are not a Christian. Just because you call yourself one doesn't make you one. Your behavior shows that you work for the devil and the only way for you to respect the Christian faith is to shut up since you are nothing but an embarrassment to anyone of good faith.

You're universally considered one of the worst persons on the board. You are essentially just a bad, unkind rotten to the core "person", and anyone like you who professes to be a Christian is committing blasphemy by doing so.

God help your soul.


knitpresentgifts wrote:
You are ignorant to Christian beliefs .....

BethAntic


Well hey, fellowship is now a verb, I learned something today.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.
> 
> ...


KPG, your MO is brilliantly demonstrated here. Someone very intelligent and well informed comes along and you just can't stand it! You must have a lot of time on your hands to try and start an argument using Matzoh and Manna as your fodder.

What you're really doing here is highlighting your religious dogma. Okay, you say you're a Christian and you say you know your Bible. Good for you but enough already! You've been doing this too long. Nature is just one of many people you've attacked in the name of Your Religion without a decent reason.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.
> 
> ...


I don't need to know what the two breads mean to a Christian outside of my curiosity. It is irrelevant. They were both initially Jewish terms, and I was speaking from the perspective of a Jew. It would have been redundant to state this, as KFN is a very smart and perceptive woman and already knew I was Jewish.

I didn't incorrectly state anything. The post you were belittling me for was a response I made to KFNs post and an ongoing conversation I had had with HER. I stated that. If you had not read all of the posts between KFN and I on the subject, then you were the one being rude. I made no mention to you or about ur posts with KFN other than the accurate description of what you receive in your communion. Since you did not read my dialogue with KFN, you have no authority to comment on it. You seemed to respond to a post was specifically meant for you. Anyone could jump in to comment on what I say, but the only SPECIFIC person addressed was KFN. It seems everyone else is humble and intelligent enough to get that. Yes, KFN stated what was in her bible, I responded in kind with what was stated in mine. KFN knows we come from different backgrounds with different traditions and dogma.

FYI the terms "bible" and "Torah" are interchangeable to Jews. Our bible is actually comprised of three texts; the Torah (five Books of Moses), psalms and prophets. Bible is English, Torah is Hebrew. It is just using a different language for the same word.

I was never intolerant of your beliefs or thoughts. You are a hypocrite and a liar. I was intolerant of that. I did not insult you, you insulted me by saying I had no clue what I was talking about, and every other vile word that came out of your disgusting mouth. This is what I am intolerant of. Everyone here knows that I ask questions about things I don't know and consider everything that someone RESPECTFULLY tells me. They know that I love to learn, especially from the experiences of others. You do not know me.

KFN didn't mention that it was specifically in the communion bible. She just said "the bible". I was responding in that context. What it says in the communion bible (which I have never heard of but whatever) is irrelevant.

I will say this one last time in caps for emphasis: I DID NOT SAY ANYTHING TO YOU SPECIFICALLY ABOUT MANNA UNTIL YOU BROUGHT IT UP IN TELLING ME TO STOP TALKING ABOUT IT.

I Say "my" to express all the Jewish people. How is it ignorant to express the possessive for something that even YOUR bible states was literally handed to Moses (the Jews) by G-d. I use "my" and "yours" bc there is a difference between the two bibles. I am actually being quite respectful and tolerant in acknowledging that the two are separate, one not being more true or important than the other. The word "stolen" might have been a bit harsh. What term would use use to describe taking something without the permission of the author and copying almost all of it without giving them credit? Is "plagiarize" more to your liking? Something else? Or will you ignore what everyone else knows; that the Old Testament is almost directly translated from the Torah.

May G-d help you, for you are beyond anyone else's help or love. I have never met such a hateful, ignorant, spiteful, disrespectful, intolerant, self righteous person in all my life. I truly truly feel sorry for you.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't need to know what the two breads mean to a Christian outside of my curiosity. It is irrelevant. They were both initially Jewish terms, and I was speaking from the perspective of a Jew. It would have been redundant to state this, as KFN is a very smart and perceptive woman and already knew I was Jewish.
> 
> I didn't incorrectly state anything. The post you were belittling me for was a response I made to KFNs post and an ongoing conversation I had had with HER. I stated that. If you had not read all of the posts between KFN and I on the subject, then you were the one being rude. I made no mention to you or about ur posts with KFN other than the accurate description of what you receive in your communion. Since you did not read my dialogue with KFN, you have no authority to comment on it. You seemed to respond to a post was specifically meant for you. Anyone could jump in to comment on what I say, but the only SPECIFIC person addressed was KFN. It seems everyone else is humble and intelligent enough to get that. Yes, KFN stated what was in her bible, I responded in kind with what was stated in mine. KFN knows we come from different backgrounds with different traditions and dogma.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> KPG, your MO is brilliantly demonstrated here. Someone very intelligent and well informed comes along and you just can't stand it! You must have a lot of time on your hands to try and start an argument using Matzoh and Manna as your fodder.
> 
> What you're really doing here is highlighting your religious dogma. Okay, you say you're a Christian and you say you know your Bible. Good for you but enough already! You've been doing this too long. Nature is just one of many people you've attacked in the name of Your Religion without a decent reason.


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


And by KPG's comments the same could be said of her.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


She has no love for anyone here who tries to say anything (remember love thy neighbor?), she doesn't show any tolerance, she constantly insults, she puts others down, and has no concept of humility. What you just said doesn't speak well for you, either. She is blinded by her own sense of superiority, and evidently you are blinded by your love for her. I thought you were better than that. I would ask you to look at whose eyes are really blinded, and then pray about it!
I am totally appalled at your profession of Christianity---both of you!


----------



## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


If KPG is your kind of Christian, then G-d help you!


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## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> You are not a Christian. Just because you call yourself one doesn't make you one. Your behavior shows that you work for the devil and the only way for you to respect the Christian faith is to shut up since you are nothing but an embarrassment to anyone of good faith.
> 
> You're universally considered one of the worst persons on the board. You are essentially just a bad, unkind rotten to the core "person", and anyone like you who professes to be a Christian is committing blasphemy by doing so.
> 
> ...


----------



## Designer1234 (Aug 9, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't need to know what the two breads mean to a Christian outside of my curiosity. It is irrelevant. They were both initially Jewish terms, and I was speaking from the perspective of a Jew. It would have been redundant to state this, as KFN is a very smart and perceptive woman and already knew I was Jewish.
> 
> I didn't incorrectly state anything. The post you were belittling me for was a response I made to KFNs post and an ongoing conversation I had had with HER. I stated that. If you had not read all of the posts between KFN and I on the subject, then you were the one being rude. I made no mention to you or about ur posts with KFN other than the accurate description of what you receive in your communion. Since you did not read my dialogue with KFN, you have no authority to comment on it. You seemed to respond to a post was specifically meant for you. Anyone could jump in to comment on what I say, but the only SPECIFIC person addressed was KFN. It seems everyone else is humble and intelligent enough to get that. Yes, KFN stated what was in her bible, I responded in kind with what was stated in mine. KFN knows we come from different backgrounds with different traditions and dogma.
> 
> ...


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I have had fry bread, it is very delicious. But not with navy beans, I'll have to make that one day. Granny would really enjoy it. My favorite hummuses are roasted garlic, roadies red pepper, or artichoke. Mmmmm.
> 
> I do not keep kosher, but I avoid pork products and though I like shellfish, I don't eat that but once every few years. Except around Christmas when dh's boss gives out a bunch of bacon. It's the good, thick slices of bacon that are irresistible. My mom doesn't keep kosher bc she likes bacon, though she doesn't eat it often. The kashrut laws are there for health and hygiene. I am selective in the sources I buy my meat from, so I don't worry so much about that. One day I will raise my own chickens. I don't eat much red meat as it is (cholesterol and the way we raise our cows), so I don't have to worry much about that, either. Only free range, organic, hormone and antibiotic free meats for me!! And no farmed fish.
> 
> ...


The only hummus I've had was tasteless. Perhaps the roasted garlic or red pepper might be good. I'll have to look for some.

Thank you for sharing the information. I find it all very interesting. I suppose I could google it, but its much better coming from a friend. Thanks!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Mmmmmmmmmm... Yummmmmm... I'm salivating right now. Soups are the best. You can get an entire meal in one pot! Plus, it's so easy to make extra and freeze it. That's what I do with my soups, chili, and spaghetti sauce. It's just as much work but we have meals for later when I get too busy to cook.
> 
> Il take your enchilada soup! Sounds really good!


I love soups too! The enchilada soup is the easiest but surprisingly good. You just dump stuff together.
1 can of Swanson's chicken
2 cans of Rotel (tomatoes and peppers)
1 can of Fiesta corn
1 envelope of enchilada seasoning
Water, to as thick or thin as you want it and heat.
Serve with tortilla chips. Yum!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The only hummus I've had was tasteless. Perhaps the roasted garlic or red pepper might be good. I'll have to look for some.
> 
> Thank you for sharing the information. I find it all very interesting. I suppose I could google it, but its much better coming from a friend. Thanks!


Oh yes, you should try some! Do you have a trader joes (organic-type market) by you? They have excellent hummus. I only use the plain kind on my pita sandwiches. Oh! And sun dried tomato hummus is excellent to. I suggest you try any of them with feta or goat cheese. They add a little something to the dip.

No problem! I thought you might. I always think (in most cases) that it is better to hear a persons actual experiences rather than to "learn it from a book". It puts it more into perspective and gives them context. I find you very interesting and can't wait to learn more about you and hear what you have to say. Thanks for calling me friend!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Never had it, but that does sound good. I put cinnamon in my spaghetti sauce. It gives it that little extra "something". I also put shredded carrots in mine and that really rounds it out.


Sounds good! I love carrots.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> We are not perfect, just saved by grace.


You hope! Hope is all you have.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I love soups too! The enchilada soup is the easiest but surprisingly good. You just dump stuff together.
> 1 can of Swanson's chicken
> 2 cans of Rotel (tomatoes and peppers)
> 1 can of Fiesta corn
> ...


Thanks!! I just added it to my "notebook". So you just throw it all in a pot at the same time? I have a great recipe for tortilla soup, but I have not made it enough to memorize it. Should you like, I can PM you with it when I find it. Fortunately, it's not one of my many books in storage! Lol! Most of my cookbooks I had a greater need to keep out of the boxes, as I cook for others and I am the only one who reads the rest of my texts.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> We are not perfect, just saved by grace.


There is not one ounce of "grace" in her.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> True Polish kishka has pig blood in it.


I have no doubt.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sounds good! I love carrots.


Me too!! Their one of my favorites, so versatile! And for SOS,e reason I prefer healthy and natural foods as opposed to processed foods. Dh's favorite cake is carrot cake. My sis made us the most special carrot wedding cake with cream cheese, vanilla and cinnamon frosting. It was the BEST wedding cake I've ever had!!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Natureschampion; Please stop telling Christians, of which I am one, what Matzoh and Manna is and how it was used, given by _God_ or what it symbolizes to Christians as outlined in the Bible. I am the one who discussed Matzoh (the Communion symbolic 'bread" ) served in many Protestant Churches with KFN. Manna was never part of the conversation and is not part of the Communion Table.
> 
> You are only serving to introduce and/or confuse the topic of discussion and frankly, until reminded by your father, didn't know what you are talking about in this instance or regarding Manna.
> 
> ...


Seriously?!? I ASKED her about it!!! Who are you to dictate what we can talk about? I was interested! She told me! And she didn't confuse me. I'm perfectly able to discuss things without becoming confused. I seek to broaden my knowledge. And you've forgotten one very important thing. The Jews are GOD'S chosen people! Why wouldn't I want to know more?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.
> 
> Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.
> 
> ...


Thank you, NC! You are right! I appreciated your sharing with me. I'm not afraid of knowledge, I seek it. Thank you for taking the time to tell me things.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Not her grace, or my grace, GOD's grace!


That God's grace has touched her is in complete doubt in my mind, but to each their own as the saying goes. I sincerely hope she is able to behave like a Christian and stop calling people ignorant when she cannot accept that they have different opinions than hers.

Have a nice evening.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Too bad I went to bed before seeing my error. Maybe in Manhattan... $500,000. for empty lots.
> They had to have the buildings torn down, too much danger.


Empty lot? What's that? Many of the empty lots around here, those too small to build something humongous on, have become local gardens, shared by nearby residents. Whoever owns the land must either be very generous or the city.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Hope you really enjoyed your celebration.


Thank you. I did.


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Not her grace, or my grace, GOD's grace!


But you don't get God's grace for acting like that, do you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Don't want to step on toes, but I make it some times. Made at home you can control the ingredients, using olive oil and whole wheat matzo meal.
> 
> Don't know about her recipe, or if she gets it as take out at a deli, but I like to make mine vegetarian. My recipe is pretty much the same as the one on the Joy of Kosher web site.
> 
> ...


Don't you use real casing?


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> But you don't get God's grace for acting like that, do you?


Now, now cookie, let's try not to use logic, it goes way over some people's head.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> But you don't get God's grace for acting like that, do you?


If she does, it's certainly not a G-d I would want to follow!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> My grandmother made "floaters" and they were just firm enough and fluffy. My husband's Nana made "sinkers" that could be used as paperweights. Tasty if you didn't break a tooth, but not as succulent as my grandmother's.


We here prefer sinkers. They're not as dense as you describe. Floaters to me taste like they're aerated.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't care, and haven't responded to anything she has written. I guess when ANYONE tries to put me in my place about the difference in our beliefs I will stand up for myself. Check that-when anyone puts ANYONE down for believing something other than what they do, and tells them they have no right to express it, I will say something. Is it a waste of time? Maybe. But ignorance and hate are WRONG, and I felt it needed to be said.
> 
> I also felt it needed to be said in defense of KFN, as KPG was twisting her words as well. I did not want her to think that just because KPG has a sequoia sized stick up her tush, that I thought she did as well. I have respect for KFN, even if I don't agree with her. From what I can tell, she is open minded and considerate of others. I much like conversing with her. She seems to be respectful in others beliefs, even if they differ from her own. If someone states something she doesn't agree with or doesn't know about it, she will ask for "proof" not to belittle them like the others, but to gain an understanding. I respect and admire that.


Thank you, NC. Ditto! I respect your ideas and feel that I can learn from you, even though we disagree on some things. We also agree on others.

When it comes to religious beliefs, kpg likes to twist my words. She doesn't think I can believe in GOD, and not the church. I once said something like, I believed that most churches had turned away from GOD. She tried to straighten me out. But my beliefs are based upon my own experiences.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> ROFLAO! I'll think of this anytime I eat something shaped like a ball.
> 
> Thanks for sharing. I looked at the recipe. It was quite different than I'd thought. I was quite surprised by the definition of schmaltz. My favorite part of chicken soup is the veggies. So I think I'll stick with my old recipe. I am intrigued by the matzoh balls though. Perhaps, instead of my noodles?


They're a lot tastier than noodles.

Why do you think old-fashioned sentimentality is called schmaltz? Because it's schmaltzy.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, NC! You are right! I appreciated your sharing with me. I'm not afraid of knowledge, I seek it. Thank you for taking the time to tell me things.


It's my pleasure, KFN! Thank YOU for taking the time and being so open minded to ask? You and I are alike in some ways, though we have different beliefs. Our approach to learning and to people is the same. I respect your opinions and want to learn more from you as well.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I make pareve borscht every Passover. My husband's Hebrew birthday is the second seder and borscht is a favorite of his, but never the bottled kind. It is my birthday present to him.


Do you make the kind where the beets ferment in a crock, or is this just an easy peasy borscht, like kishka without the casing? :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Empty lot? What's that? Many of the empty lots around here, those too small to build something humongous on, have become local gardens, shared by nearby residents. Whoever owns the land must either be very generous or the city.


The Catholic Church.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> We here prefer sinkers. They're not as dense as you describe. Floaters to me taste like they're aerated.


Then you would like my mom's matzoh balls. Their real stinkers, I mean sinkers! Lol!! My gm made floaters that were just dense enough to hold together and not taste "aerated" (very accurate description of some matzoh balls). Oooooh they were so perfect! Yum! Sadly, she has not made matzoh balls in many years. My mom has gotten better at it. She said a few years back, "I didn't know you weren't suposed to completely pat them down." LOL!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Happiest of B'days to Our Precious Pearl. Many more and Zi-ga-zunt.


Thank you. How many more?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Seriously?!? I ASKED her about it!!! Who are you to dictate what we can talk about? I was interested! She told me! And she didn't confuse me. I'm perfectly able to discuss things without becoming confused. I seek to broaden my knowledge. And you've forgotten one very important thing. The Jews are GOD'S chosen people! Why wouldn't I want to know more?


Seriously. I asked YOU if you had ever received Communion in a Protestant Church that could have been Matzoh which you said you would like to try. I then said perhaps you had tasted it and not realized same.

I didn't dictate to you or anyone what to talk about.

I will now suggest you follow your own advice, however, and not tell me what I've forgotten. I know who I am and who God's chosen people are, I haven't forgotten, as I am a Christian and understand what that means.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. How many more?


LOL, don't thank her too much, she is killing you off on the other thread.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Purl, I hope you had a wonderful birthday! Belated birthday wishes!


Belated thank you, Nebraska.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Has she ever claimed she (KPG) has respect for Jews? It doesn't seem to me like she has respect for anyone, even the Christians that don't follow her zany way of thinking. So I don't take it personally.
> 
> I appreciate that KFN is interested in learning what she doesn't know and will ask questions. I am the same way. I find other cultures and religions fascinating, and would rather get people's perspectives than read it in a book. When we do, we apply our own biases. It IS the only way to build bridges. And we find how much we have in common, besides our differences.
> 
> I have not read the Torah or midrash (explanations) in a very long time, either. That is why my father reminded me. There is SO much to take in! He has a photographic memory, so I'm not surprised. He also filled in as "rabbi" when ours had to go away for a short time on various occasions when our congregation was too small to have both a rabbi and a cantor. That was incredibly special and made us very proud of him. He is a scholar and a teacher, which is basically what a rabbi is. A rabbi is not our direct link to G-d. We can all communicate with g-d on our own. The rabbi is there to answer questions and give guidance. He's more of a therapist and teacher than anything else. At least that's how a lot of us view the position.


I admire scholars. I've so much I want to learn but it just pops right out of my brain as soon as it goes in. I'm a breast cancer survivor and suffer from something called chemo brain. Cognitive impairment. Its very difficult to retain what I read. I bookmark a LOT and I google a lot to try and find what I know I've read.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you make the kind where the beets ferment in a crock, or is this just an easy peasy borscht, like kishka without the casing? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I think I finally know the difference: treif, pareve, kosher. Too many terms. I suppose SQM will give me a test. She'll wait until tomorrow to see if can retain any information.


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I admire scholars. I've so much I want to learn but it just pops right out of my brain as soon as it goes in. I'm a breast cancer survivor and suffer from something called chemo brain. Cognitive impairment. Its very difficult to retain what I read. I bookmark a LOT and I google a lot to try and find what I know I've read.


Can I claim chemo brain, too? I didn't think it lasted 20 years!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, NC. Ditto! I respect your ideas and feel that I can learn from you, even though we disagree on some things. We also agree on others.
> 
> When it comes to religious beliefs, kpg likes to twist my words. She doesn't think I can believe in GOD, and not the church. I once said something like, I believed that most churches had turned away from GOD. She tried to straighten me out. But my beliefs are based upon my own experiences.


Now who is telling another how to think and speak, KFN. I have not twisted your words. I know what the Bible says about God, who is the Church and about belonging to a Church. It is not my business to 'straighten' you or anyone out nor have I attempted to do so, although you have attempted to do same to other posters and me.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you, NC. Ditto! I respect your ideas and feel that I can learn from you, even though we disagree on some things. We also agree on others.
> 
> When it comes to religious beliefs, kpg likes to twist my words. She doesn't think I can believe in GOD, and not the church. I once said something like, I believed that most churches had turned away from GOD. She tried to straighten me out. But my beliefs are based upon my own experiences.


And we have the decency and respect for each other to acknowledge that the other is entitled to their beliefs and opinions.

See, and I don't believe in G-d anymore. I am an ethnic Jew, not a religious one (which is why I don't keep kosher). I believe in fate, karma, and nature. I guess these are all incorporated into the definition of "G-d", but i believe that "G-d" is a made up term that nowadays all too many people use to tell others what to do and inflict their beliefs in a hateful manner. They think g-d gave them that right. I know YOU are not like that. It's one reason I like you so much. These are JUST MY beliefs and I do not expect anyone to believe the same thing as I do. And my beliefs are based on my experiences as well.

So would you consider yourself more of a spiritual Christian? Or do you not like to classify yourself in such terms? Either way, I think you are a very good and decent person. That's more important than what you believe or who you believe in.

I am so glad that we have the chance to discuss all of this.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Huckleberry said:


> Poor Purl
> 
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY.
> May you celebrate MANY MORE BIRTHDAYS in good health and share them with us. Huck


Thank you so much, Huck. I wish you had given me that good health earlier. I have had the strangest collection of non-life-threatening ailments this summer.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. How many more?


Since you have been to Mt. Sinai recently, I wish you as many days as you wish for yourself and one more for good luck.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, don't thank her too much, she is killing you off on the other thread.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:

Oh, knitanon! You are just KILLING me today! Too funny....


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I feel ya. My favorite food is Mediterranean and I used to have to travel 15 or 17 miles to get to one. There's one somewhat nearby now, but it's not as good. This other place makes the best baklava and dalmas, and their falafel is perfectly crispy on the outside, fluffy on the inside... Their chicken and gyros are amazing too. No schwarma, though.
> 
> How can something be kosher and NOT carry pastrami? Sheesh.


You'd think? All I know is the times have changed, and not for the better.

In the Woody Allen movie Sleeper, he wakes up to learn that pastrami is considered a health food.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seriously. I asked YOU if you had ever received Communion in a Protestant Church that could have been Matzoh which you said you would like to try. I then said perhaps you had tasted it and not realized same.
> 
> I didn't dictate to you or anyone what to talk about.
> 
> I will now suggest you follow your own advice, however, and not tell me what I've forgotten. I know who I am and who God's chosen people are, I haven't forgotten, as I am a Christian and understand what that means.


Do they put a schmear on the matzot in the Protestant Church?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, don't thank her too much, she is killing you off on the other thread.


Ratter!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

maysmom said:


> Yes, indeed. My mother used to eat it all the time till she and her cousin had the misfortune to ask what it was made of. I think I am one of the few Polish people who doesn't like kielbasa.
> 
> There's an old polka song, "Who Stole the Kishka?"


I've heard it. There was a radio program years ago whose host liked to throw in old Polish songs, and that was one of his favorites.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MaidInBedlam said:


> To every one who has been talking about chicken soup with matzoh balls, I have to say I think there's a conspiracy (and a pretty constructive one...) going on here because the next time I go to the grocery store I'll have to buy matzohs and make chicken soup just to try the matzoh balls. I am sure they will be wonderful and give me one more starchy thing to put in soups for variety. The kishkas sound pretty darn good, too.
> 
> I had leftover juices from roasting a Cornish game hen a couple of nights ago and made my quickie chicken noodle soup for lunch yesterday. Game hen juices plus some plain chicken stock, carrots and celery diced pretty small and Chinese noodles broken into short lengths. Liquids and vegies put together. Cook until vegies are tender. Add cooked noodles and diced leftover game hen. It takes a few minutes longer than opening a can, but my mother loves it and will consume a bunch. (I am trying to put some weight on her...) OK, so technically I made Cornish game hen soup. Let's not quibble about that.


Sounds yummy. Though I like parsnips in my chicken soup.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I admire scholars. I've so much I want to learn but it just pops right out of my brain as soon as it goes in. I'm a breast cancer survivor and suffer from something called chemo brain. Cognitive impairment. Its very difficult to retain what I read. I bookmark a LOT and I google a lot to try and find what I know I've read.


I have loved ones who are breast cancer survivors and suffer from the same thing. I don't think you have it too bad, though. At least not from what I can see! You are quite intelligent and learned. Don't sell yourself short. At least you know where to look for your information and aren't looking in the piano or something! Lol! And at least you have the will and perseverance to retain the information somehow, even if it's not in your brain (which at least a little of it has to be, otherwise you wouldn't know to look).

Hey, I don't have "chemo brain". What's my excuse?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> It's dry and bland. My favorite is with whipped cream cheese and a little bit of salt. The cream cheese has to be whipped, otherwise it's too hard to schmear on the matzoh. Peanut butter, Nutella and bananas on matzoh are also very good. During Passover, some people make matzoh pizza, but the matzoh get soggy.
> You should try it! I know many a non-Jew who eat it all year round as a substitute for crackers and most bread. I usually limit my consumption to Passover, but only for the sake of tradition.


Isn't Matzoh Pizza an ancient Incan site in Peru?

You can get matzoh with poppy seeds and an oniony flavor, much less bland (Moon Matzohs).


----------



## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't Matzoh Pizza an ancient Incan site in Peru?
> 
> You can get matzoh with poppy seeds and an oniony flavor, much less bland (Moon Matzohs).


Groan groan groan groan groan


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

cookiequeen said:


> I think I finally know the difference: treif, pareve, kosher. Too many terms. I suppose SQM will give me a test. She'll wait until tomorrow to see if can retain any information.


Treif: not kosher, or unclean. (I.e.pork)
Kosher: clean or following the rules of kashrut as outlined by the Torah. (I.e. A piece of meat that was raised, fed and killed properly and was prayed over by a rabbi or other person qualified to give the blessing)
Parve/pareve (I've seen it both ways): neither dairy nor meat. (I.e. Vegetables)

Marylinknits and PP might have better definitions. If you answer with these ones, just reference me to SQ.

Let me know and I will make you a cheat-sheet. Although at this point I think you might do better than me! She is a very fair school master if she is giving you until tomorrow! She said earlier that you had until tonight. Lol!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> That respect is the foundation of Christianity. The Jewish experience is not really about Jews at all, in some people's eyes, it is the lead up to the introduction of the Savior, Jesus Christ. So I have been told, at least.
> I view the Bible as a series of lessons, some others take it much more literally.


I see it as much more than lessons. The book of Genesis not only teaches creation (whether you believe it or not) but it gives the genealogy of Jesus. It follows his bloodline back to Abraham to prove GOD'S promise. It details the flood which archeology has shown to have happened, not to mention, the lore of nearly every ancient civilization includes the story of the flood. The bible is loaded with history. And so much is being proven true. Just a few months ago, I read that archeologists had found Solomon's temple. It's history and instruction and warnings and prophecy. Whether you believe its inspired or not, doesn't take anything away from it. It is what it is.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Ratter!


 :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> You'd think? All I know is the times have changed, and not for the better.
> 
> In the Woody Allen movie Sleeper, he wakes up to learn that pastrami is considered a health food.


Oy gevalt! You're not kidding!

Oh, I wish!!!! One of my favorite things is pastrami and eggs... Heart attack on a PLATE!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I see it as much more than lessons. The book of Genesis not only teaches creation (whether you believe it or not) but it gives the genealogy of Jesus. It follows his bloodline back to Abraham to prove GOD'S promise. It details the flood which archeology has shown to have happened, not to mention, the lore of nearly every ancient civilization includes the story of the flood. The bible is loaded with history. And so much is being proven true. Just a few months ago, I read that archeologists had found Solomon's temple. It's history and instruction and warnings and prophecy. Whether you believe its inspired or not, doesn't take anything away from it. It is what it is.


Yup, it is what it is.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> Of course, the whole thing varies wildly. Most people, it seems, who identify themselves as Christian view the lessons of the Holy Bible in much the same way as you describe. As with any group there could be a pie chart of 30% believe this, 6% believe that, and the 30 might be those mainstream lesson people with all sorts of adherants in between.


A lot of people who call themselves Christians, are not.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't Matzoh Pizza an ancient Incan site in Peru?
> 
> You can get matzoh with poppy seeds and an oniony flavor, much less bland (Moon Matzohs).


Oh, PP! You crack me up!! You're so WITTY!

I haven't seen those. Our "Passover isle" is limited to an end cap. Our "kosher isle" leaves much to be desired. There are no kosher markets around me, either. At least they started carrying macaroons again, but not the rocky road or toffee. :-( they used to have the matzoh with garlic powder, but the ones you described sound soooooo good.


----------



## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

Good night everyone, I hope you all have a restful night.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.
> 
> My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.
> 
> ...


OUR discussion had absolutely nothing to do with YOU and YOUR faith! You jumped into the middle of OUR conversation and started dictating what she should or should not tell me! You're the one who is intolerant!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I see it as much more than lessons. The book of Genesis not only teaches creation (whether you believe it or not) but it gives the genealogy of Jesus. It follows his bloodline back to Abraham to prove GOD'S promise. It details the flood which archeology has shown to have happened, not to mention, the lore of nearly every ancient civilization includes the story of the flood. The bible is loaded with history. And so much is being proven true. Just a few months ago, I read that archeologists had found Solomon's temple. It's history and instruction and warnings and prophecy. Whether you believe its inspired or not, doesn't take anything away from it. It is what it is.


I totally agree. Although, I don't believe in the bible as fact, but as a history lesson. Have you ever read the epic poem "Gilgamesh"? It is about 5000 years old and also talks about a flood. The commonalities in bibles and other historical texts is where you find the truth and fact, IMO.

Where did you read about Solomon's temple?!?! I have always been fascinated by the lore, and was not aware they had made that discovery! What about his mines? Any mention of those? We went on an archeological dig when we were in Israel. It was quite exhilarating! You would have enjoyed it, I am sure.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Keep responding and proving what an idiot you really are. That question was to SQM knowing the proof would not be found, not you and certainly wasn't in need of your comment. In your haste to make a "cute and humorous" comment, all you accomplish is showing that you don't know what you are talking about. Definitely knit instead of commenting, you'll do us all a favor.


http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-275083-84.html#5775042

I didn't say you posted a PM in public. What I said was that you took a private exchange and made it public, even going so far as to name KPG, which I hadn't done (though references to female Nazis probably gave it away to everyone reading them).

I said a few days ago that this was very boring; it's even more so the second time. Why ask SQM when I had given you the answer days earlier? Anyway, I'm done with this.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I don't need to know what the two breads mean to a Christian outside of my curiosity. It is irrelevant. They were both initially Jewish terms, and I was speaking from the perspective of a Jew. It would have been redundant to state this, as KFN is a very smart and perceptive woman and already knew I was Jewish.
> 
> I didn't incorrectly state anything. The post you were belittling me for was a response I made to KFNs post and an ongoing conversation I had had with HER. I stated that. If you had not read all of the posts between KFN and I on the subject, then you were the one being rude. I made no mention to you or about ur posts with KFN other than the accurate description of what you receive in your communion. Since you did not read my dialogue with KFN, you have no authority to comment on it. You seemed to respond to a post was specifically meant for you. Anyone could jump in to comment on what I say, but the only SPECIFIC person addressed was KFN. It seems everyone else is humble and intelligent enough to get that. Yes, KFN stated what was in her bible, I responded in kind with what was stated in mine. KFN knows we come from different backgrounds with different traditions and dogma.
> 
> ...


She thinks you're going to confuse and corrupt me. It is people exactly like her, that make me NOT attend church!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

You can certainly define who is and who isn't if that is your position. While I may wonder what those people are thinking according to my understanding of that religion it really isn't my place to determine where their struggles are taking them in their quest for divine guidance.



Knitter from Nebraska said:


> A lot of people who call themselves Christians, are not.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't Matzoh Pizza an ancient Incan site in Peru?
> 
> You can get matzoh with poppy seeds and an oniony flavor, much less bland (Moon Matzohs).


That was pretty bad.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I think I finally know the difference: treif, pareve, kosher. Too many terms. I suppose SQM will give me a test. She'll wait until tomorrow to see if can retain any information.


SQM is a toughie. Call on me if you need help.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


Not mine! If you think that THIS is how a Christian acts, you'd better get out your bible and read! JESUS said, "Be fishers of men". She's not trying to bring anyone to JESUS! She's chasing them away! She is the most unforgiving and intolerant person here. That is not what JESUS taught! Ask that your eyes be opened!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Since you have been to Mt. Sinai recently, I wish you as many days as you wish for yourself and one more for good luck.


You make me sound like Moses. I was just there for a doctor's visit. Thanks for the good luck.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Cindy S said:


> Good night everyone, I hope you all have a restful night.


Cindy, Good Night.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Do they put a schmear on the matzot in the Protestant Church?


 (Crutch-speak for the far wordier "I thought that was a very funny question, SQM")


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Ratter!


Just you wait. What other thread?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Just you wait. What other thread?


LOL, you can always review the record of her posts. 
I am guessing NB.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Just you wait. What other thread?


Just you wait - 'enry "iggins, Just you wait!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, you can always review the record of her posts.
> I am guessing NB.


Naughty Naughty.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> Groan groan groan groan groan


What's the matter, Justice Cookiequeen? Don't you like poppy seeds and onion?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh yes, you should try some! Do you have a trader joes (organic-type market) by you? They have excellent hummus. I only use the plain kind on my pita sandwiches. Oh! And sun dried tomato hummus is excellent to. I suggest you try any of them with feta or goat cheese. They add a little something to the dip.
> 
> No problem! I thought you might. I always think (in most cases) that it is better to hear a persons actual experiences rather than to "learn it from a book". It puts it more into perspective and gives them context. I find you very interesting and can't wait to learn more about you and hear what you have to say. Thanks for calling me friend!


Thanks! We do have a Trader Joes. Its not very near but I used to go there every month or so. They put a Natural Foods Grocers very near to me so I've been going there. I guess I'll have to head over to TJ's.

You don't have to thank me for calling you friend. You've treated me with respect. We've agreed and disagreed. We've gone back and forth and all of it has been civil. You've shared your knowledge with me. Thats what I look for in a friend! Thank you!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


You are so correct Joey. They have no idea what Christianity is or represents, so they strike out at me in defense for telling the Good News. So be it, it was foretold and for them, a self-fulfiling prophecy.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She thinks you're going to confuse and corrupt me. It is people exactly like her, that make me NOT attend church!


I guess there are some in every religion. Fortunately, the ones in my culture who are like that have purposefully separated themselves from ME, so luckily I don't have to deal with them. Conservative and reform Jews tend to be more tolerant and understanding of differing traditions and beliefs. I know there are many Christians like that as well who belong to a church. Maybe not in your area, though.

I think SHE is the confused and corrupted one.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks! We do have a Trader Joes. Its not very near but I used to go there every month or so. They put a Natural Foods Grocers very near to me so I've been going there. I guess I'll have to head over to TJ's.


Natural foods grocers might have hummus dips with things other than garbanzo beans. As far as i know, it can only be made naturally and is quite healthy. I just LOVE trader joe's, don't you? The closet one to me is a little ways away too, but so worth it. I don't get to go as often as I'd like. I love the little white chocolate-pistachio cookies. Hehe. Oh! And go nuts(lol) over their omega enhanced trail mix.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> Not her grace, or my grace, GOD's grace!


 ... shaking my head, Joey, they refuse to listen/learn yet continue to speak as if they know what they are talking about ...


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I see it as much more than lessons. The book of Genesis not only teaches creation (whether you believe it or not) but it gives the genealogy of Jesus. It follows his bloodline back to Abraham to prove GOD'S promise. It details the flood which archeology has shown to have happened, not to mention, the lore of nearly every ancient civilization includes the story of the flood. The bible is loaded with history. And so much is being proven true. Just a few months ago, I read that archeologists had found Solomon's temple. It's history and instruction and warnings and prophecy. Whether you believe its inspired or not, doesn't take anything away from it. It is what it is.


Genesis has no mention of nor even oblique reference to Jesus. It follows everyone's bloodline back to Adam and Eve.

A flood that would cover the entire world is physically impossible; the flood did not happen.

And what does that mean: "It is what it is"? What you think it is and what I think it is are very different things.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> That God's grace has touched her is in complete doubt in my mind, but to each their own as the saying goes. I sincerely hope she is able to behave like a Christian and stop calling people ignorant when she cannot accept that they have different opinions than hers.
> 
> Have a nice evening.


I did not called NC ignorant. I hope you can learn to understand what you read.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> Yup, it is what it is.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: 
Or else it isn't what it is.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> We are not perfect, just saved by grace.


Yes, but that grace comes from our LORD! You can't just SAY you believe. You have to LIVE it. Someday, GOD will judge our every word and every action.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks!! I just added it to my "notebook". So you just throw it all in a pot at the same time? I have a great recipe for tortilla soup, but I have not made it enough to memorize it. Should you like, I can PM you with it when I find it. Fortunately, it's not one of my many books in storage! Lol! Most of my cookbooks I had a greater need to keep out of the boxes, as I cook for others and I am the only one who reads the rest of my texts.


This is seriously the easier soup ever! Just dump and heat! Its simple and quick for lunch. And yes, I'd love to have your recipe for tortilla soup. I probably won't try it til the weather cools off though. I'm kind of a salad gal in the summer.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Not mine! If you think that THIS is how a Christian acts, you'd better get out your bible and read! JESUS said, "Be fishers of men". She's not trying to bring anyone to JESUS! She's chasing them away! She is the most unforgiving and intolerant person here. That is not what JESUS taught! Ask that your eyes be opened!


Honestly, KFN, for a long time I thought that the only Christians were like her. I have been treated my whole life with contempt, ignorance, intolerance and hatred. It wasn't until later that I learned that not all Christians were like this? I always thought, "how could these people think they are following Jesus? He didn't treat people like that, he didn't think like that." At least not what I had learned of him. I always thought he was a pretty cool dude! Then I learned that there were people who still followed in his footsteps. There's actually not a whole lot of difference between Judaism and Christianity in the way people are SUPPOSED to be treated, and some other teachings. I mean, Jesus was Jewish, wasn't he?

I am so glad to have friends like you and the other gals on here to remind me of how wonderful Christians and their faith is. Especially when I am confronted with people like KPG. It is sad that so many people feel and act as she does. I actually pity them in their misery, don't you? I am very happy with who I am. I am very happy with who YOU are.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Do they put a schmear on the matzot in the Protestant Church?


Do you mean a "bribe?" I don't understand what you are asking.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Me too!! Their one of my favorites, so versatile! And for SOS,e reason I prefer healthy and natural foods as opposed to processed foods. Dh's favorite cake is carrot cake. My sis made us the most special carrot wedding cake with cream cheese, vanilla and cinnamon frosting. It was the BEST wedding cake I've ever had!!


Mmmm! Sounds yummy! Now you've got me wanting carrot cake.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Just you wait. What other thread?


Have you not visited NB again today?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


Thank you!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> Just you wait - 'enry "iggins, Just you wait!


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh, PP! You crack me up!! You're so WITTY!
> 
> I haven't seen those. Our "Passover isle" is limited to an end cap. Our "kosher isle" leaves much to be desired. There are no kosher markets around me, either. At least they started carrying macaroons again, but not the rocky road or toffee. :-( they used to have the matzoh with garlic powder, but the ones you described sound soooooo good.


Oh no no no. Moon matzohs aren't kosher for Passover.

My father's first job in the US was at the Streit's matzoh bakery, and they were the creators of Moonstrips. He'd bring them home still hot from the oven, and between the three of us kids, a pound was gone in no time. I loved them, though I haven't bought them in years. PM me and I'll see whether I can send you some, though not straight from the oven. The factory is still where it was was when my dad worked there.

I just did a Youtube search for Streit's matzo. There are dozens, maybe hundreds, of videos on it.

Also, http://www.streitsmatzos.com/yearproducts.php


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I did not called NC ignorant. I hope you can learn to understand what you read.


Really? This was your post, and if you tell someone they are ignorant of a belief you ARE calling them ignorant.

"Natureschampion wrote:
No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.

Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.

In this instance the "faith" is my own since matzoh is what the Jews ate when they left Egypt. This is the ORIGIN of matzoh and CANNOT be disputed. Manna was dispensed by G-d when MY people were wandering the desert. I was not educated by my father, only reminded as I learned that in Hebrew school many years ago. I wasn't telling her in the context of your wafers, but in the context of manna being different than matzoh, which it is. I never said that manna was part of the communion. Learn to read. The whole conversation started when we were talking about matzoh balls, which are a staple food for Jews around the world. So who better to explain things than a Jew? YOU obviously don't know what YOU are talking about. KFN was interested in what I, and fellow Jews, were saying about or foods. That's what the whole topic of conversation was about. It was about TRADITIONS, not religion.

I was not trying to introduce or confuse anything. The subject was introduced in another post and I expanded, which is my right. Or do I not have that right bc it goes against your beliefs? You are trying to introduce hatred and ignorance, and confuse people into silence and to believe what you do. I did not.

There have been MANY Christians who have told me about my faith, and that I am going to hell bc I don't believe what they do. But I suppose that is right bc it is what they believe? Again, what I said had nothing to do with faith. I did not tell her she was wrong in her beliefs, only that the Torah explains it differently. If you are going based on the Old Testament, be prepared for someone to bring up the Torah, as the ideas were stolen from it. I would never and have never told someone they are WRONG in their beliefs. I have been told over and over that I am wrong in mine.

Your response to NC's post:

You are ignorant to Christian beliefs and Faith. I believe you have no idea what the two breads symbolize to a Christian. I do not believe you even realize that those things were mentioned more than once in the Bible.

My conversation didn't start with KFN on Matzo Balls as you incorrectly stated. In fact, I've never was part of any conversation with KFN or anyone regarding Jewish foods. I didn't even read most of that extended conversation nor the majority of your posts. I'm speaking only of the few (perhaps two?) posts I exchanged with KFN.

KFN expressed she didn't understand what Matzoh actually was and that The Bible (she has said she is a Christian) mentioned Manna. KFN also did not know Matzoh it is often used by Protestant Churches when serving Communion. Presumably because KFN has admitted she was turned off by the Church and does not fellowship with a Church or congregation regularly. KFN was NOT talking about Manna being mentioned in the Torah, since she was speaking about the Christian Bible, which you now have revealed you DO NOT UNDERSTAND.

BTW: You NEVER mentioned the Torah when discussing how KFN brought up Manna being mentioned in her BIBLE, you said "The Bible" .... now you're saying, "the Torah."

I doubt you know the references in the Bible to Manna, as it is mentioned more than once. I asked you politely to not confuse readers by bring up Manna as it has nothing to do with Matzoh used on the Communion Table PERIOD.

I NEVER insulted your Jewish beliefs, foods or thoughts. You are rude to be intolerant of me expressing my opinion on MY beliefs, or thoughts to another.

I have NOT said anything either about the origin on Manna.

For you to state it is "your" Torah, "your Bible,"your experiences" and that the Torahs' "ideas were stolen" shows how ignorant and immature in your faith and knowledge you are.

For you to insult me for expressing my knowledge about ME and MY faith is absurd. It shows exactly who you are and your lack of tolerance and ability to attempt to understand what you do not know.

May GOD give you the ability to open your eyes, ears and heart so you can learn to understand, accept and tolerate others who are not you.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> What's the matter, Justice Cookiequeen? Don't you like poppy seeds and onion?


I think it was more the "matzoh pizza" comment that I got such a kick out of. Then again, she's been subjected more to your wackiness than I have.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> They're a lot tastier than noodles.
> 
> Why do you think old-fashioned sentimentality is called schmaltz? Because it's schmaltzy.


I really am going to try them! Thanks for sharing. That wasn't schmaltzy at all, was it?


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> OUR discussion had absolutely nothing to do with YOU and YOUR faith! You jumped into the middle of OUR conversation and started dictating what she should or should not tell me! You're the one who is intolerant!


You are lying. I asked you a SIMPLE question and suggested you may have already tasted Matzoh without realizing it. I was POLITE and tolerance never entered the discussion about a cracker.

As you and most have said, ANYONE can respond to ANY post. I asked of you and you responded to me.

Get over it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> She thinks you're going to confuse and corrupt me. It is people exactly like her, that make me NOT attend church!


You not attending church is on you, I had nothing to do with it.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> You can certainly define who is and who isn't if that is your position. While I may wonder what those people are thinking according to my understanding of that religion it really isn't my place to determine where their struggles are taking them in their quest for divine guidance.


Yet you just told my what I am or am not, didn't you, Janet?


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you mean a "bribe?" I don't understand what you are asking.


How did you come up with 'bribe'? It doesn't even fit the context of the sentence. A schmear is when you spread cream cheese on a bagel.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Not mine! If you think that THIS is how a Christian acts, you'd better get out your bible and read! JESUS said, "Be fishers of men". She's not trying to bring anyone to JESUS! She's chasing them away! She is the most unforgiving and intolerant person here. That is not what JESUS taught! Ask that your eyes be opened!


Some people who call themselves Christians, are not.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Genesis has no mention of nor even oblique reference to Jesus. It follows everyone's bloodline back to Adam and Eve.
> 
> A flood that would cover the entire world is physically impossible; the flood did not happen.
> 
> And what does that mean: "It is what it is"? What you think it is and what I think it is are very different things.


If Jesus was a Jew it does. The story of Abraham is in genesis, isn't it? In "lech lechah" g-d says "look unto the heavens. I will make your children as numerous as the stars in the sky." That means yours and my bloodlines can also be traced back to him. I don't think g-d meant that Christians were considered in this, as they do not follow the ways of Abraham, but Jesus was not a Christian.

A flood may not have covered the world, but I believe a great storm occured thousands of years ago that covered most of the Middle East. It is referenced in many historical texts.

I think that's her point, that "it is what it is" to different people.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Or else it isn't what it is.


It is what it is, our understanding of what it is is something altogether different.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

DD Darned Duplicate.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, but that grace comes from our LORD! You can't just SAY you believe. You have to LIVE it. Someday, GOD will judge our every word and every action.


They think the "saved by grace" thing gives them an excuse to treat people however they want, IMO.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> This is seriously the easier soup ever! Just dump and heat! Its simple and quick for lunch. And yes, I'd love to have your recipe for tortilla soup. I probably won't try it til the weather cools off though. I'm kind of a salad gal in the summer.


Perfect!! Il get the ingredients when I go to the market tomorrow (hopefully). Granny will LOVE it!

I haven't been making a lot of soups, either. I will send you the tortilla soup recipe, and would you liked the gazpacho (chilled veggie soup) as well? I haven't made the recipe from the book I have, but everything I have made from it is A++. And I have never had a gazpacho I didn't like.


----------



## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> Yes, it IS a conspiracy. Darn you for figuring it out!!! :twisted: :twisted:
> 
> Your soup sounds DELISH!! My mom uses those kind of noodles in her chicken soup as well. I don't know how much weight will be put onto your mother for Cornish game hen soup! If you want, I can send you a recipe for cauliflower and cheese soup dh and granny love. That's MUCH more fattening! Lol!


With some things I make my mother, quantity consumed is a good deal. When I want to bring out the big guns I make mac & cheese which I make with half mac and half cauliflower not to mention lots of cheese sauce and bacon or ham.

I love having some leftovers from dinner that I can make into something good for lunch the next day.Homemade wins the day with my Mom. Someone mentioned lentil soup somewhere around here. I used to beg my mother to make her version on rainy days. I love lentils.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Really? This was your post, and if you tell someone they are ignorant of a belief you ARE calling them ignorant.


I repeat, I did not say she was ignorant. I SAID she is ignorant of Christians' beliefs and Faith (she IS) and is ignorant of her own faith. The words I wrote mean she is lacking the knowledge or is uneducated, ill informed in her knowledge, etc.

Learn the difference.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Yet you just told my what I am or am not, didn't you, Janet?


While you are trying to tell me who you think I am?

I was not talking to you, so it would be difficult for me to tell you anything without you interjecting yourself into something that has nothing to do with you. 
I was responding to KnitterFromNE about her general statement about Christians with my own general statement about sinners. 
If you want to take that on, please do. 
You are of no interest to me.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> The chicken neck is fatty, like the rest of the chicken skin.
> 
> My grandmother made the fricassee with the pupiks. She used the necks and the smaller part of the wings for soup.


Marilyn, this entire message is music to my ears. Literally.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Oh no no no. Moon matzohs aren't kosher for Passover.
> 
> My father's first job in the US was at the Streit's matzoh bakery, and they were the creators of Moonstrips. He'd bring them home still hot from the oven, and between the three of us kids, a pound was gone in no time. I loved them, though I haven't bought them in years. PM me and I'll see whether I can send you some, though not straight from the oven. The factory is still where it was was when my dad worked there.
> 
> ...


What's moon matzoh? Is that the garlic powder ones? They have whey in the flavoring, right? I never had them at Passover, just the rest of the year. 

That's so cool that your dad worked at the streitz's factory! You and your sibs are so lucky. What are moonstrips?

Il check out the videos when I get a chance, thanks!!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> How did you come up with 'bribe'? It doesn't even fit the context of the sentence. A schmear is when you spread cream cheese on a bagel.


You asked me if they put 'a schmear' on the .... (noun)

Had you said, do they 'schmear' on the ... I would have understood your use of a verb.

'schmear'
noun
a corrupt or underhanded inducement; a bribe.
verb
flatter or ingratiate oneself with (someone).
"he was constantly buying us drinks and schmearing us up"


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seriously. I asked YOU if you had ever received Communion in a Protestant Church that could have been Matzoh which you said you would like to try. I then said perhaps you had tasted it and not realized same.
> 
> I didn't dictate to you or anyone what to talk about.
> 
> I will now suggest you follow your own advice, however, and not tell me what I've forgotten. I know who I am and who God's chosen people are, I haven't forgotten, as I am a Christian and understand what that means.


Actually, you did! You injected yourself into our conversation, which I didn't mind because you were polite. But then you attacked NC for sharing information that I'd asked her to share. We were having a perfectly civil conversation until you started making accusations against her and demanding that she not talk about the bible.

IMO, you only come on this thread to sow seeds of hatred. We live by example and your example leads no one to our LORD! You are the perfect example of why I stay away from churches! You SAY you are a Christian but you are not. You are nothing like JESUS! I don't think you even know him!


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmear

smh


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Now who is telling another how to think and speak, KFN. I have not twisted your words. I know what the Bible says about God, who is the Church and about belonging to a Church. It is not my business to 'straighten' you or anyone out nor have I attempted to do so, although you have attempted to do same to other posters and me.


Ah but, there is the church. And then there is "THE" church. Don't confuse the two.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> They think the "saved by grace" thing gives them an excuse to treat people however they want, IMO.


More ignorance and lack of understanding of Christianity ...


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitanon said:



> You are of no interest to me.


... except when you recently wrote an entire insulting post directed to and about me, correct, Janet?

That IS of great interest to you.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I really am going to try them! Thanks for sharing. That wasn't schmaltzy at all, was it?


 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Let us know how you like them!


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ah but, there is the church. And then there is "THE" church. Don't confuse the two.


Is this you not judging me and telling me yet again who I am and how to act and think.

Nah ... That is yet again in another post above this one.

DO NOT blame me because you left God, and The Church and chose to not follow the Bible's teachings. That is all on you.


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MaidInBedlam said:


> With some things I make my mother, quantity consumed is a good deal. When I want to bring out the big guns I make mac & cheese which I make with half mac and half cauliflower not to mention lots of cheese sauce and bacon or ham.
> 
> I love having some leftovers from dinner that I can make into something good for lunch the next day.Homemade wins the day with my Mom. Someone mentioned lentil soup somewhere around here. I used to beg my mother to make her version on rainy days. I love lentils.


Your Mac and cheese sounds too good. I won't tell dh about this post... Lol.

I mentioned lentil soup. They are one of my favorites! I can get you the recipe if you'd like. It's a thicker "meal" soup like split pea. It's got carrots, onions, lentils, celery, curry, and lemons. OMG it's SO GOOD,

I not only intentionally make enough to have leftovers, I make twice that much to have dinner and leftovers another week and freeze it! "You want homemade soup and spaghetti, granny? Easy! I'll just get it out of the freezer!" Lol!


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Actually, you did! You injected yourself into our conversation, which I didn't mind because you were polite. But then you attacked NC for sharing information that I'd asked her to share. We were having a perfectly civil conversation until you started making accusations against her and demanding that she not talk about the bible.
> 
> IMO, you only come on this thread to sow seeds of hatred. We live by example and your example leads no one to our LORD! You are the perfect example of why I stay away from churches! You SAY you are a Christian but you are not. You are nothing like JESUS! I don't think you even know him!


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

lovethelake said:


> WOW "Time out Redskins" (little football lingo)
> 
> The old testament is part of both of our heritages. Jesus , who I believe is one part of the Trinity was Jewish. The Mass uses many of the sacred rituals of the Last Supper. I will admit that I am not as well versed with our 'Old Testament, but I love the Jewish traditions and history that has affected my Church in such a deep and profound way. I took a 12 week course on the Old Testament and was so blown away with it's depth of heritage.
> 
> I will ask the question, because I truly do not know the answer. I thought the Torah and the Bible's Old Testament were basically the same. That the Bible was an attempt to translate it from Hebrew (?) into Latin. Am I wrong?


I hope you don't mind my inserting myself into this discussion. You ask serious questions, and I'll try to give you serious answers, taking your points in order.

The Old Testament is a Christian book (or books) that is largely based on the Hebrew Bible, but with the books in different order, and perhaps one or two omitted. Jews don't have an "Old" Testament because we accept only one.

The Torah is just the first five books, which end with Moses. The Hebrew Bible, however, is the Torah, plus Prophets, plus Writings (Psalms, Song of Solomon, the books of Esther and Ruth, and a whole bunch of others).

The word "Bible" is indeed a Latin word, but I don't think it's used for an attempt to translate the Hebrew into Latin. It means "book," and is used in many contexts, not necessarily religious ones. The Hebrew Bible - which contains some parts written in Aramaic, the language spoken by the Jews around Jesus's time - was first translated into Greek, a pretty exact translation, called the Septuagint. When the Jews were exiled from Israel, many landed in Greek-speaking areas; hence the Greek translation, so that the exiled Jews could read the Bible.

I'm only guessing, but that may be why, by the time the gospels were written, they were written in Greek. But when Latin replace Greek as the common language in that part of the world, it was an obvious move to translate it all into Latin.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> If you can laugh at my "role," I can laugh at your "or or."
> 
> Enough of that!


Wasn't it "pole" she laughed at?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I hope you don't mind my inserting myself into this discussion. You ask serious questions, and I'll try to give you serious answers, taking your points in order.
> 
> The Old Testament is a Christian book (or books) that is largely based on the Hebrew Bible, but with the books in different order, and perhaps one or two omitted. Jews don't have an "Old" Testament because we accept only one.
> 
> ...


That's much better than how I put it. I didn't mention how the Book that contained the psalms also had the books of Ruth and Esther, etc. I referred to it as "psalms". I'm so used to the Hebrew words (Torah, nevi'im, ketuvim) that the only English word I ever heard was the book of psalms. The Megillah is probably one of my favorites. I always wanted to dress as Esther on Purim.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> I'm a soup person also. Gazpacho is delicious however, I made a tomato and orange chilled soup which was to die for. I'll try to find the recipe - so easy and so delicious.
> 
> I love pumpkin, sweet potato, broccoli and potato and leek soups. So easy, just chop up the vegies (I use 2 medium carrots in the pumpkin and sweet potato and one large onion in the soups and don't peel the carrots or sweet potato or plain potato), pile them into a large pot, crush 2 chicken stock cubes, salt, pepper and sometimes I add ground cumin and coriander spices. Fill pot to half way with water, cover and simmer till vegies are soft then blitz with a bar-mix.
> 
> I sometimes add a small amount of cream to the soups. Also, a can of chick peas added to the sweet potato soup is always delicious especially with the cumin and coriander spices. Yum.


What's a bar-mix? Anyway, your soups sound good, especially with the cumin and coriander.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Designer1234 said:


> changed my mind- Nature can answer very well herself.


I'm beginning to think Nature can do anything very well herself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> She was sharing some knowledge she has, and did a good job. Why criticize?


Need you ask?


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Cindy S said:


> That God's grace has touched her is in complete doubt in my mind, but to each their own as the saying goes. I sincerely hope she is able to behave like a Christian and stop calling people ignorant when she cannot accept that they have different opinions than hers.
> 
> Have a nice evening.


Cindy, this is what I meant. Thanks for hanging around.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> And we have the decency and respect for each other to acknowledge that the other is entitled to their beliefs and opinions.
> 
> See, and I don't believe in G-d anymore. I am an ethnic Jew, not a religious one (which is why I don't keep kosher). I believe in fate, karma, and nature. I guess these are all incorporated into the definition of "G-d", but i believe that "G-d" is a made up term that nowadays all too many people use to tell others what to do and inflict their beliefs in a hateful manner. They think g-d gave them that right. I know YOU are not like that. It's one reason I like you so much. These are JUST MY beliefs and I do not expect anyone to believe the same thing as I do. And my beliefs are based on my experiences as well.
> 
> ...


IMO, GOD is in everything in the universe. He is in me! My soul longs to learn what he's trying to teach me. I wish that I weren't so stubborn and independent.

I'm definitely a "spiritual Christian". I hear the message and I try to live it. I tried to find a church to help me on my journey. What I found were hypocrites! People gossiping, forming cliques, judging others clothing, completing. They often meet you at the door with an exaggerated greeting and then they abandon you to go back to their cliques. Some of the loneliest times of my life, I was in a church filled with people. I understand that people are human. We're fallible. But I cannot understand why people can't leave all that crap at the door, when they enter GOD'S house. For one hour a week, people ought to be able love thy neighbor. And then there are those who act all high and mighty while they're in church but then go out into the world and crap all over everybody. Hypocrites! It doesn't belong in GOD'S house and it feels blasphemous.

For years I've tried to study and learn on my own and with others. I've read through the bible twice. The first time I understood very little. The second time I understood a little more. Then I started studying it in peices using commentary, bible studies and prayer. I read lots of books where authors tell you what it means. I've come to the conclusion that the bible is literal. I may not always understand something but the more I learn, the more I understand. Words translated from Hebrew or Aramaic often have more than one meaning. Thats what I've read anyway. Sometimes when you hear their other meaning, things make more sense. Lately, I've been learning about the Rephahim(sp) and the Nephilim. In the past when I read the bible, I had no idea what they were. But once I learned it made more sense. Anyway, I'm a work in progress. I seek.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> The Catholic Church.


Could be. The Church does own a lot of real estate. It also used to own a spaghetti factory, which therefore was excused from paying tax. The Church was finally forced to sell it.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You asked me if they put 'a schmear' on the .... (noun)
> 
> Had you said, do they 'schmear' on the ... I would have understood your use of a verb.
> 
> ...


 It is a noun but it is not used like your dictionary says. Think of 'spread' as a noun. And in my example it means to apply a spread of cream cheese to a bagel. It is an idiom. But thanks for doing all the research. It is a Jewish thing, I guess. But hang around and try to use it when you talk recipes.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Just you wait - 'enry "iggins, Just you wait!


You'll be sorry, but your tears will be too late. And I mean it!


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> It is a noun but it is not used like your dictionary says. Think of 'spread' as a noun. And in my example it means to apply a spread of cream cheese to a bagel. It is an idiom. But thanks for doing all the research. It is a Jewish thing, I guess. But hang around and try to use it when you talk recipes.


I use it sometimes, but not the way you do.

I would have said, "Do the Protestants smear (schmear) anything on the matzoh?"

When you used it as a noun, the context told me you referred to something corrupt (a bribe).

Like take this bribe, and I won't tell God about your xxxxx! 

(except I'm not Catholic so don't 'do' Confession.)


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schmear
> 
> smh


You sure do remind me of the best researcher we had on KP but left us for darker pastures - some cooking forum, I guess.

I have never heard it used as a bribe. Interesting.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> It is what it is, our understanding of what it is is something altogether different.


I actually understood this. I think it's time for bed.


----------



## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> You sure do remind me of the best researcher we had on KP but left us for darker pastures - some cooking forum, I guess.
> 
> I have never heard it used as a bribe. Interesting.


Oh, SQM, it IS she.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I have loved ones who are breast cancer survivors and suffer from the same thing. I don't think you have it too bad, though. At least not from what I can see! You are quite intelligent and learned. Don't sell yourself short. At least you know where to look for your information and aren't looking in the piano or something! Lol! And at least you have the will and perseverance to retain the information somehow, even if it's not in your brain (which at least a little of it has to be, otherwise you wouldn't know to look).
> 
> Hey, I don't have "chemo brain". What's my excuse?


It's definitely improved. One of my favorite activities is reading. I used to read three books a week (fiction though). After chemo, I couldn't even read a paragraph and remember what it said. Now I can read but after a few paragraphs my mind wanders and I have to keep going back over what I read. In nonfiction books, I highlight to help me retain and on the computer I bookmark anything that I think I might want to refer back to because I know that I won't remember it. When I'm writing, I lose my train of thought and edit, edit, edit. Oh well, I've adapted.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> I actually understood this. I think it's time for bed.


 ;-)


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Isn't Matzoh Pizza an ancient Incan site in Peru?
> 
> You can get matzoh with poppy seeds and an oniony flavor, much less bland (Moon Matzohs).


Ahahaha! Good one!


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Treif: not kosher, or unclean. (I.e.pork)
> Kosher: clean or following the rules of kashrut as outlined by the Torah. (I.e. A piece of meat that was raised, fed and killed properly and was prayed over by a rabbi or other person qualified to give the blessing)
> Parve/pareve (I've seen it both ways): neither dairy nor meat. (I.e. Vegetables)
> 
> ...


Thank you. I didn't want to ask.


----------



## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's definitely improved. One of my favorite activities is reading. I used to read three books a week (fiction though). After chemo, I couldn't even read a paragraph and remember what it said. Now I can read but after a few paragraphs my mind wanders and I have to keep going back over what I read. In nonfiction books, I highlight to help me retain and on the computer I bookmark anything that I think I might want to refer back to because I know that I won't remember it. When I'm writing, I lose my train of thought and edit, edit, edit. Oh well, I've adapted.


There is that theory that what we hear as we fall asleep stays with us? 
Have you tried audiobooks or podcasts as you are drifting off?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> IMO, GOD is in everything in the universe. He is in me! My soul longs to learn what he's trying to teach me. I wish that I weren't so stubborn and independent.
> 
> I'm definitely a "spiritual Christian". I hear the message and I try to live it. I tried to find a church to help me on my journey. What I found were hypocrites! People gossiping, forming cliques, judging others clothing, completing. They often meet you at the door with an exaggerated greeting and then they abandon you to go back to their cliques. Some of the loneliest times of my life, I was in a church filled with people. I understand that people are human. We're fallible. But I cannot understand why people can't leave all that crap at the door, when they enter GOD'S house. For one hour a week, people ought to be able love thy neighbor. And then there are those who act all high and mighty while they're in church but then go out into the world and crap all over everybody. Hypocrites! It doesn't belong in GOD'S house and it feels blasphemous.
> 
> For years I've tried to study and learn on my own and with others. I've read through the bible twice. The first time I understood very little. The second time I understood a little more. Then I started studying it in peices using commentary, bible studies and prayer. I read lots of books where authors tell you what it means. I've come to the conclusion that the bible is literal. I may not always understand something but the more I learn, the more I understand. Words translated from Hebrew or Aramaic often have more than one meaning. Thats what I've read anyway. Sometimes when you hear their other meaning, things make more sense. Lately, I've been learning about the Rephahim(sp) and the Nephilim. In the past when I read the bible, I had no idea what they were. But once I learned it made more sense. Anyway, I'm a work in progress. I seek.


I like your concept and approach to G-d. Don't wish you weren't so independent and stubborn! Why would you wish that? Weren't you made in His image? If that is true, you should enjoy your attributes bc He is stubborn and independent, too. At least thats my take.

I'm sorry you had that experience. It sounds like middle school and high school aaaallll over again.

That is admirable that you are so intent on learning all the lessons the Bible has to offer. I have a book called Who wrote the bible? It is the five Books of Moses with commentary in another color so it is a little easier to follow. It gives evidence of who wrote it and when, and also has explanations for why they chose to phrase things a a certain way. I don't remember who wrote it, and of course it is one of the books in storage. Grrrrrr. I NEED to set up my library!! When we move to another house, I will have a WHOLE room dedicated to learning. You will be welcome there anytime, of course! I would love to discuss history, theology, psychology, sociology.... Heck, I'd love to discuss anything with you! Well met, very well met! L'chayim! ("To life" in Hebrew, a salutation or toast)


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Cindy S said:


> Good night everyone, I hope you all have a restful night.


A belated good night!


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's much better than how I put it. I didn't mention how the Book that contained the psalms also had the books of Ruth and Esther, etc. I referred to it as "psalms". I'm so used to the Hebrew words (Torah, nevi'im, ketuvim) that the only English word I ever heard was the book of psalms. The Megillah is probably one of my favorites. I always wanted to dress as Esther on Purim.


Have you ever known a Jewish girl who didn't want to dress as Esther?

I recently took a course on biblical narratology, so it's pretty fresh in my mind. And Wikipedia does a really good job, too.


----------



## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> There is that theory that what we hear as we fall asleep stays with us?
> Have you tried audiobooks or podcasts as you are drifting off?


Oh that explains why I wake up every morning talking like Sophia Petrillo.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> You sure do remind me of the best researcher we had on KP but left us for darker pastures - some cooking forum, I guess.
> 
> I have never heard it used as a bribe. Interesting.


Really? You never heard anyone say "You have to schmear the super if you're interested in an apartment"?


----------



## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It's definitely improved. One of my favorite activities is reading. I used to read three books a week (fiction though). After chemo, I couldn't even read a paragraph and remember what it said. Now I can read but after a few paragraphs my mind wanders and I have to keep going back over what I read. In nonfiction books, I highlight to help me retain and on the computer I bookmark anything that I think I might want to refer back to because I know that I won't remember it. When I'm writing, I lose my train of thought and edit, edit, edit. Oh well, I've adapted.


And the ability to adapt is truly the mark of a great and intelligent brain! Go you! You truly are a strong and remarkable woman. Don't be too hard on yourself. Thank you so much for sharing.

After reading your experience, I still have to ask, what's MY excuse! Lol

I had to stop reading print when my vision got exponentially worse. That's one reason all my books are in storage. I had a procedure done and am now able to read for small periods of time. I can knit and crochet until it gets very late, though. It's like my brain just knows where things are supposed to go and what it's supposed to look like. I can also go by touch on certain stitches. These crafts have been my "saving grace" since I learned them AFTER my vision got poor. It made me feel very good about myself, especially bc I was even able to do lace fairly early.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I totally agree. Although, I don't believe in the bible as fact, but as a history lesson. Have you ever read the epic poem "Gilgamesh"? It is about 5000 years old and also talks about a flood. The commonalities in bibles and other historical texts is where you find the truth and fact, IMO.
> 
> Where did you read about Solomon's temple?!?! I have always been fascinated by the lore, and was not aware they had made that discovery! What about his mines? Any mention of those? We went on an archeological dig when we were in Israel. It was quite exhilarating! You would have enjoyed it, I am sure.


I haven't read Gilgamesh, just about it. There are other ancient stories just like it too.

I have no idea where I read about Solomon's temple. But I just googled it, lots of articles. Here's one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/10/khirbet-qeiyafa-archaeology_n_1504722.html

Very interesting. I've not heard any mention of the mines, just the temple. I can't believe you got to go on a dig in Israel! Lucky you! I've never been to Israel and have to picture it in my mind. Of course it would look nothing like I've pictured, I'm sure.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> I'm beginning to think Nature can do anything very well herself.


Aw, PP, thanks for your vote of confidence! It means a lot. At the very least, i do try! But it is always nice to get the support and defense of others.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Have you ever known a Jewish girl who didn't want to dress as Esther?
> 
> I recently took a course on biblical narratology, so it's pretty fresh in my mind. And Wikipedia does a really good job, too.


I guess you're right. I'll tell you something, though, and I don't know if all girls felt this way; I had a little "crush" on mordeccai. He's one of the greatest men who ever lived, IMO. Wow, I've never told anyone that before! Lol!

Have you ever read the book who wrote the bible? It's a beige book, I don't remember who wrote it. It is quite interesting.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thank you. I didn't want to ask.


No prob. You can ask ANYTHING! There are no stupid questions, IMO. The only way you will gain knowledge is if you ask questions, also IMO. I will never belittle you for asking, not will I be condescending. If I don't know I will tell you and either find the answer or suggest to you where to look.

Also, I use a lot of Yiddish and Hebrew terminology and don't always realize I'm doing it without giving explanations or translations. Let me know if I do this, it is not intentional.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Natural foods grocers might have hummus dips with things other than garbanzo beans. As far as i know, it can only be made naturally and is quite healthy. I just LOVE trader joe's, don't you? The closet one to me is a little ways away too, but so worth it. I don't get to go as often as I'd like. I love the little white chocolate-pistachio cookies. Hehe. Oh! And go nuts(lol) over their omega enhanced trail mix.


My favorite are their frozen croissants that you put out the night before, then pop in the oven. I know, I know. They're not healthy but they're wonderful, just like fresh croissants. I'll have to look for the cookies. When there's little or no traffic it takes me about 30 minutes to get there. And right nearby is Whole Foods. I like them too!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? You never heard anyone say "You have to schmear the super if you're interested in an apartment"?


With cream cheese?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I haven't read Gilgamesh, just about it. There are other ancient stories just like it too.
> 
> I have no idea where I read about Solomon's temple. But I just googled it, lots of articles. Here's one:
> 
> ...


Thanks!

I highly suggest you read Gilgamesh if you have the chance. It's very well told. There are a lot of concepts that mirror those in the bible. Wuite fascinating. I read it in an "honors English: great myths and legends" class in college. Probably one of the most fun and interesting classes I've ever taken.

There are supposed to be a few mines in different locations just FILLED with diamonds! One or 2 in Ethiopia, the others in Israel.

Israel is a gorgeous country. It is a very spiritual place. You would really like it, I'm sure. It is a desert, but there are oases and waterfalls littered throughout. It is also quite historical and has Greek, roman, Jewish, Christian, and moorish ruins all over the place. Where we did our dig was an active society during the times of the macabes (Hanukkah, Hellenistic period) and was littered with oil lamps, so I could just imagine them trying to gather all the oil everyone had in order to light the Ner Tamid (eternal light), which is supposed to be kept lit always. Are you familiar with the story of Hanukkah? It is truly inspirational.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> My favorite are their frozen croissants that you put out the night before, then pop in the oven. I know, I know. They're not healthy but they're wonderful, just like fresh croissants. I'll have to look for the cookies. When there's little or no traffic it takes me about 30 minutes to get there. And right nearby is Whole Foods. I like them too!


Ooh, I haven't seen the croissants! We are allowed to have unhealthy, especially from trader joes! At least if it has their name on it it is natural and preservative free. Have you had their carrot cake cupcakes? Now THOSE are to die for! Trader Joes is a little closer to me than to you it seems, though I rarely get to go there. It's so sad that natural and organic food markets are not common in "low income" areas. Especially trader joes, bc they're prices are comparable to the main stream markets. Ooh, what about their vanilla but cluster cereal? It's very very good with their Greek yogurt, which is also very good for you.

Whole foods is good, but very expensive out here. When you go there, I suggest you look for a drink called "genius juice". That is, if you like juices. Their carrot one is sooo delish, and their kale one is better than any other kale based juice I've had. It is also available at other stores like whole foods.

http://geniusjuice.com


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I guess you're right. I'll tell you something, though, and I don't know if all girls felt this way; I had a little "crush" on mordeccai. He's one of the greatest men who ever lived, IMO. Wow, I've never told anyone that before! Lol!
> 
> Have you ever read the book who wrote the bible? It's a beige book, I don't remember who wrote it. It is quite interesting.


Mordecai always seemed a little sneaky to me. Sending his pretty young cousin to deal with that king? Your secret crush is safe with me.

I never read that book, though now that I've looked it up, it looks interesting. I read a couple dozen other things, mostly journal articles, on the subject. I will have to tackle dh's collection of every Jewish-themed book ever published and see whether he has it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> With cream cheese?


If he's cute, why not? It would be like Last Bagel in Paris.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Genesis has no mention of nor even oblique reference to Jesus. It follows everyone's bloodline back to Adam and Eve.
> 
> A flood that would cover the entire world is physically impossible; the flood did not happen.
> 
> And what does that mean: "It is what it is"? What you think it is and what I think it is are very different things.


Genesis doesn't mention JESUS but it does follow HIS bloodline, not all bloodlines. For example: starting at Genesis 11:19 " After he begot Reu, Peleg lived two hundred and nine years, and begot sons and daughters.". It goes on to follow Reu's bloodline but not the other sons and daughters, only the line that brought Abram And eventually JESUS. Actually you can go further back, I just picked that place as an example. It doesn't even list the names of the other sons and daughters, only those in JESUS'S ancestry.

Many, many ancient civilizations told the tale of the flood, groups that had nothing and no one in common. The Epic of Gilgamish is one very good example. I'm too tired to go find the book I have that gives more details on this. I'll look it up tomorrow and post. Along with more about the archeology. Here's one article about this. Though not conclusive, its just a sample until tomorrow. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/evidence-noahs-flood-ark-real-robert-ballard-archeologist-titanic_n_2273143.html

What I mean by "It is what it is", is that one person believes one thing and another believes another thing. It makes no difference. It is what it is! What we believe doesn't affect it or change it. Perhaps one day, we'll all know for sure.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> What's a bar-mix? Anyway, your soups sound good, especially with the cumin and coriander.


A bar-mix is a hand held blender. I'm sure there's a better name for it but I can't think of one!

These soups are so easy and quick to prepare. I often make them up as I go along. Recently I made carrot and poppy seed soup - divine.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If he's cute, why not? It would be like Last Bagel in Paris.


 :XD:


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Mordecai always seemed a little sneaky to me. Sending his pretty young cousin to deal with that king? Your secret crush is safe with me.
> 
> I never read that book, though now that I've looked it up, it looks interesting. I read a couple dozen other things, mostly journal articles, on the subject. I will have to tackle dh's collection of every Jewish-themed book ever published and see whether he has it.


I thought mordeccai was smart. He knew that it was the only way to save his people and that Esther was strong enough to handle it. What other choice did he have? At least that's my take. It has been too long a time since I have read the Megillah.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Seriously. I asked YOU if you had ever received Communion in a Protestant Church that could have been Matzoh which you said you would like to try. I then said perhaps you had tasted it and not realized same.
> 
> I didn't dictate to you or anyone what to talk about.
> 
> I will now suggest you follow your own advice, however, and not tell me what I've forgotten. I know who I am and who God's chosen people are, I haven't forgotten, as I am a Christian and understand what that means.


knitpresentgifts
you think you are a Christian, we know better. Somewhere you took a wrong turn and lost what it takes to be a Christian.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Genesis doesn't mention JESUS but it does follow HIS bloodline, not all bloodlines. For example: starting at Genesis 11:19 " After he begot Reu, Peleg lived two hundred and nine years, and begot sons and daughters.". It goes on to follow Reu's bloodline but not the other sons and daughters, only the line that brought Abram And eventually JESUS. Actually you can go further back, I just picked that place as an example. It doesn't even list the names of the other sons and daughters, only those in JESUS'S ancestry.
> 
> Many, many ancient civilizations told the tale of the flood, groups that had nothing and no one in common. The Epic of Gilgamish is one very good example. I'm too tired to go find the book I have that gives more details on this. I'll look it up tomorrow and post. Along with more about the archeology. Here's one article about this. Though not conclusive, its just a sample until tomorrow. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/evidence-noahs-flood-ark-real-robert-ballard-archeologist-titanic_n_2273143.html
> 
> What I mean by "It is what it is", is that one person believes one thing and another believes another thing. It makes no difference. It is what it is! What we believe doesn't affect it or change it. Perhaps one day, we'll all know for sure.


Haha, you basically said exactly what I did in response! Lol!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Honestly, KFN, for a long time I thought that the only Christians were like her. I have been treated my whole life with contempt, ignorance, intolerance and hatred. It wasn't until later that I learned that not all Christians were like this? I always thought, "how could these people think they are following Jesus? He didn't treat people like that, he didn't think like that." At least not what I had learned of him. I always thought he was a pretty cool dude! Then I learned that there were people who still followed in his footsteps. There's actually not a whole lot of difference between Judaism and Christianity in the way people are SUPPOSED to be treated, and some other teachings. I mean, Jesus was Jewish, wasn't he?
> 
> I am so glad to have friends like you and the other gals on here to remind me of how wonderful Christians and their faith is. Especially when I am confronted with people like KPG. It is sad that so many people feel and act as she does. I actually pity them in their misery, don't you? I am very happy with who I am. I am very happy with who YOU are.


I agree with you! I cannot believe that these people think they are following JESUS! JESUS spoke of turning your back on evil but HE also taught that every lamb was important, even the lost ones. If we were to follow HIM we wouldn't turn our backs on any of HIS sheep. We wouldn't push them away from HIM. HE also taught forgiveness, not 7 times but 70X7 times. HE taught charity. HE taught obedience. HE taught love. But more than anything, HE was about forgiveness. Even the LORD'S Prayer to GOD, says "forgive us our trespasses as WE forgive those who trespass against us". I don't know how a Christian could ignore this! It is fundamental to Christianity.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Genesis doesn't mention JESUS but it does follow HIS bloodline, not all bloodlines. For example: starting at Genesis 11:19 " After he begot Reu, Peleg lived two hundred and nine years, and begot sons and daughters.". It goes on to follow Reu's bloodline but not the other sons and daughters, only the line that brought Abram And eventually JESUS. Actually you can go further back, I just picked that place as an example. It doesn't even list the names of the other sons and daughters, only those in JESUS'S ancestry.
> 
> Many, many ancient civilizations told the tale of the flood, groups that had nothing and no one in common. The Epic of Gilgamish is one very good example. I'm too tired to go find the book I have that gives more details on this. I'll look it up tomorrow and post. Along with more about the archeology. Here's one article about this. Though not conclusive, its just a sample until tomorrow. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/10/evidence-noahs-flood-ark-real-robert-ballard-archeologist-titanic_n_2273143.html
> 
> What I mean by "It is what it is", is that one person believes one thing and another believes another thing. It makes no difference. It is what it is! What we believe doesn't affect it or change it. Perhaps one day, we'll all know for sure.


I've seen many attempts to show how the Hebrew Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus, and all were forced. They were either bad translations or based on omitting certain facts. How do you know that the writers of the NT didn't take a bloodline and follow it forward and present it as that of Jesus? I'm not familiar with the examples you give, but I've read enough to convince me that the Hebrew Bible contains no prophecy of Jesus.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> A bar-mix is a hand held blender. I'm sure there's a better name for it but I can't think of one!
> 
> These soups are so easy and quick to prepare. I often make them up as I go along. Recently I made carrot and poppy seed soup - divine.


I think they're called immersion blenders here. The US always has a longer word for it than other English-speaking countries.

I have an oversupply of fennel seed. Is there any soup that it would be good in?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Some people who call themselves Christians, are not.


Well, that's the truth!

Please tell me where JESUS said to go out and pick fights with others. Or where did HE say to be mean and nasty? Where did HE say to be hateful and unforgiving? What bible are you reading?!? I've got several different versions and NONE of them teach what you follow!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I thought mordeccai was smart. He knew that it was the only way to save his people and that Esther was strong enough to handle it. What other choice did he have? At least that's my take. It has been too long a time since I have read the Megillah.


Of course you're right, but still....


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> They think the "saved by grace" thing gives them an excuse to treat people however they want, IMO.


I know. Some think that if they say the words, they are saved. In truth, to actually MEAN the words requires more. You must live the words.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Perfect!! Il get the ingredients when I go to the market tomorrow (hopefully). Granny will LOVE it!
> 
> I haven't been making a lot of soups, either. I will send you the tortilla soup recipe, and would you liked the gazpacho (chilled veggie soup) as well? I haven't made the recipe from the book I have, but everything I have made from it is A++. And I have never had a gazpacho I didn't like.


I don't know about the gazpacho. The thought of cold soup.....


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> There is that theory that what we hear as we fall asleep stays with us?
> Have you tried audiobooks or podcasts as you are drifting off?


No, I haven't. But I can't fall asleep without reading or doing Sudoku puzzles. It calms my brain and lulls me off to sleep. Difficulty getting to sleep is also a late and long term effect of chemo. The worst!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I like your concept and approach to G-d. Don't wish you weren't so independent and stubborn! Why would you wish that? Weren't you made in His image? If that is true, you should enjoy your attributes bc He is stubborn and independent, too. At least thats my take.
> 
> I'm sorry you had that experience. It sounds like middle school and high school aaaallll over again.
> 
> That is admirable that you are so intent on learning all the lessons the Bible has to offer. I have a book called Who wrote the bible? It is the five Books of Moses with commentary in another color so it is a little easier to follow. It gives evidence of who wrote it and when, and also has explanations for why they chose to phrase things a a certain way. I don't remember who wrote it, and of course it is one of the books in storage. Grrrrrr. I NEED to set up my library!! When we move to another house, I will have a WHOLE room dedicated to learning. You will be welcome there anytime, of course! I would love to discuss history, theology, psychology, sociology.... Heck, I'd love to discuss anything with you! Well met, very well met! L'chayim! ("To life" in Hebrew, a salutation or toast)


Thanks! You really do need to get your library set up. ;-) The last time we moved I took most of my books to Goodwill. I rarely reread a book, fiction anyway. Since then, I've amassed many, many more. I had them everywhere! A few months ago, my hubby built me a whole floor to ceiling wall of shelves in the basement. But as soon as it was finished, it was nearly full. :lol: My problem is, I discovered "Half Price Books". My favorite place!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> And the ability to adapt is truly the mark of a great and intelligent brain! Go you! You truly are a strong and remarkable woman. Don't be too hard on yourself. Thank you so much for sharing.
> 
> After reading your experience, I still have to ask, what's MY excuse! Lol
> 
> I had to stop reading print when my vision got exponentially worse. That's one reason all my books are in storage. I had a procedure done and am now able to read for small periods of time. I can knit and crochet until it gets very late, though. It's like my brain just knows where things are supposed to go and what it's supposed to look like. I can also go by touch on certain stitches. These crafts have been my "saving grace" since I learned them AFTER my vision got poor. It made me feel very good about myself, especially bc I was even able to do lace fairly early.


My favorite knitting is baby outfits done with fine yarn and size 0 needles. I can only go so long before I can't see to knit. Then my eyes stay blurry for a couple of hours.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I know. Some think that if they say the words, they are saved. In truth, to actually MEAN the words requires more. You must live the words.


You would be very interested on our ideas of "tzedakah" which is charity. It's about what you DO, not what you SAY. There are 8 forms of tzedakah. My favorite is the last one. "Enabling the recipient to become self reliant". I am a firm believer in the old saying "if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. TEACH a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime."

http://www.jewfaq.org/m/tzedakah.htm

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/practices/Ethics/Tzedakah_Charity.shtml

We have a word, " mitzvah" plural "mitvot". Here are some articles on the subject. They do a much better explaining it than I.

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/practices/Ritual/Jewish_Practices/Mitzvot.shtml

http://www.torah.org/features/spirfocus/whatisamitzvah.html

I only did a quick search and skimmed the articles. I'm sure if you wanted you could find more.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> Of course you're right, but still....


Well, "it is what it is" right? Lol!!!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks! You really do need to get your library set up. ;-) The last time we moved I took most of my books to Goodwill. I rarely reread a book, fiction anyway. Since then, I've amassed many, many more. I had them everywhere! A few months ago, my hubby built me a whole floor to ceiling wall of shelves in the basement. But as soon as it was finished, it was nearly full. :lol: My problem is, I discovered "Half Price Books". My favorite place!


We don't have basements here. More to collapse during an earthquake :-(

But that would be me! My problem was I discovered $0.01 books on amazon! I have a nook, but much prefer printed texts and hardback copies of books.

For fiction I mostly like fantasy (the story of King Arthur, Merlin and the knights is my favorite subject) and historical fiction (Philippe Gregory is an amazing writer and most of her works are centered around Tudor England).

A lot of my books are educational and textbooks. I have saved almost every course book from my years in college, regardless of the subject. I took so many extra curricular classes that I could have double majored! But they weren't all in the same subject. I figured I might as well get all the learning I can in while I attended that wonderful University of California at Irvine. I also have some historical nonfiction, especially on Judaism and the US. I have one on the letters between John and Abigail Adams called Dear Friend... I haven't read the whole thing and it has been a while. They were quite a couple. Very modern compared to most of their cohorts (in the sense that they communicated and respected each other's advice).

When I was excited about a knitting textbook I got recently, my mom said "you and I are the only people I know who actually like textbooks." Lol!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I highly suggest you read Gilgamesh if you have the chance. It's very well told. There are a lot of concepts that mirror those in the bible. Wuite fascinating. I read it in an "honors English: great myths and legends" class in college. Probably one of the most fun and interesting classes I've ever taken.
> 
> ...


Yes, I'm somewhat familiar. They only had enough oil for a day but the menorah stayed lit for eight days.

When we lived in St Louis, (actually Creve Couer and Chesterfield) we were in an area that had a lot of Jews. Many of my boy's friends were Jews so we picked up a little and went to several Bar Mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs. I especially loved the sung prayers(?). I think I even remember one line, Baruch Adoni?? Something like that?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Ooh, I haven't seen the croissants! We are allowed to have unhealthy, especially from trader joes! At least if it has their name on it it is natural and preservative free. Have you had their carrot cake cupcakes? Now THOSE are to die for! Trader Joes is a little closer to me than to you it seems, though I rarely get to go there. It's so sad that natural and organic food markets are not common in "low income" areas. Especially trader joes, bc they're prices are comparable to the main stream markets. Ooh, what about their vanilla but cluster cereal? It's very very good with their Greek yogurt, which is also very good for you.
> 
> Whole foods is good, but very expensive out here. When you go there, I suggest you look for a drink called "genius juice". That is, if you like juices. Their carrot one is sooo delish, and their kale one is better than any other kale based juice I've had. It is also available at other stores like whole foods.
> 
> http://geniusjuice.com


I just looked on the package. Trader Joe's brand, 8 mini croissants, awesome! Only 150 calories. Cheap too! Somewhere around 3 bucks. I don't eat cereal or yogurt, so I'll pass. I do have some of their oatmeal. But oatmeal's oatmeal.

I don't know about the genius juice. Maybe I could drink the carrot juice? My drink of choice is Starbucks Frappuccino. I know, bad bad bad! But so good (and addictive).

We get our vitamins at whole foods and often some grains and nuts. Misc... Whatever tickles our fancy.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Haha, you basically said exactly what I did in response! Lol!


Great minds think alike? Ahahahahaha!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I've seen many attempts to show how the Hebrew Bible prophesies the coming of Jesus, and all were forced. They were either bad translations or based on omitting certain facts. How do you know that the writers of the NT didn't take a bloodline and follow it forward and present it as that of Jesus? I'm not familiar with the examples you give, but I've read enough to convince me that the Hebrew Bible contains no prophecy of Jesus.


I never said that the Hebrew Bible contained a prophecy of JESUS. I said that the book of Genesis showed the genealogy of JESUS. I can't prove that the writers of the New Testament didn't take a bloodline and follow it forward. I don't need to. I have faith. I wasn't trying to convince you or anybody else. I just made a statement and tried to explain why I believed it.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> You would be very interested on our ideas of "tzedakah" which is charity. It's about what you DO, not what you SAY. There are 8 forms of tzedakah. My favorite is the last one. "Enabling the recipient to become self reliant". I am a firm believer in the old saying "if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. TEACH a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime."
> 
> http://www.jewfaq.org/m/tzedakah.htm
> 
> ...


I definitely agree with this but I'm too tired to look at the links tonight. I'll check them out tomorrow. Thanks. I keep trying to catch up but can't. I gotta go to bed! Ttyl!


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Yes, I'm somewhat familiar. They only had enough oil for a day but the menorah stayed lit for eight days.
> 
> When we lived in St Louis, (actually Creve Couer and Chesterfield) we were in an area that had a lot of Jews. Many of my boy's friends were Jews so we picked up a little and went to several Bar Mitzvahs and Bat Mitzvahs. I especially loved the sung prayers(?). I think I even remember one line, Baruch Adoni?? Something like that?


Very good! I'm impressed! It's actually "Baruch atah Adonai ". Which means "blessed art though Lord" and is usually followed by "eloheinu", "our G-d". It is the beginning of most of our prayers. A lot of what you think are prayers are actually Psalms. They are sung quite beautifully, aren't they? They are traditionally sung in the same way, but there are variations depending on demographics.

Interesting fact: they (somewhat) recently discovered a tribe of Jews living in Africa who possessed a very old Torah. This tribe was on the SAME portion that the rest of the Jews throughout the world were on, despite having been cut off from their brethren for quite some time. I learned of this years ago and right now my eyesight is getting poorer so I can't search for the article right now. 
The reason I know this is true is bc the reading of the Torah is on a a schedule. Every portion has a day of the week it will be read, starting soon after our new year on the holiday simchat Torah, or "rejoicing of the Torah". On this holiday we dance, sing, drink, and be merry! Actually, most of our holidays are like that. We Jews know how to have a good time! We finish the last parsha (portion) of Deuteronomy and begin the first parsha of genesis on this day (which is actually sundown to sundown) Every week there is a new parsha. I am a bit hazy on the details of how they work the parshot (pl) with the leap year, which adds a month. It is quite complicated, but somehow they figured it out and Jews in Israel, Asia, Australia and the United States are all on the same parsha at the same time.

I would love to say more and post some articles for you to read, but I just looked at the time and I have to take granny to the doctor tomorrow morning! Ah!

It was an IMMENSE pleasure conversing with you tonight, KFN. I truly had a wonderful time. You are a lady and a scholar. Lol! I tip my hat to you.

Ok I think it's time to go to bed. I'm starting the silly ramblings, rather than the cultivated ones. Hehe as if! Lol!

Layla tov! (Goodnight). Or should I say boker tov (good morning ), since it is 100 am here?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just looked on the package. Trader Joe's brand, 8 mini croissants, awesome! Only 150 calories. Cheap too! Somewhere around 3 bucks. I don't eat cereal or yogurt, so I'll pass. I do have some of their oatmeal. But oatmeal's oatmeal.
> 
> I don't know about the genius juice. Maybe I could drink the carrot juice? My drink of choice is Starbucks Frappuccino. I know, bad bad bad! But so good (and addictive).
> 
> We get our vitamins at whole foods and often some grains and nuts. Misc... Whatever tickles our fancy.


Oh no! Oatmeal is NOT oatmeal! You MUST try coaches oats!! Now THOSE are like mana from heaven!! LOL!!!! But I will DEFINITELY get the ones from trader joes the next time I'm there. Granny and dh will especially like them! And I will feel ok giving it to them bc as you pointed out, they're not that bad.

Genius juice is chok full of vitamins. It is more a snack than a drink. I have one for breakfast. They are lactose and dairy free, no additives, preservatives... You get the picture. You could easily have one with your frappuccino! Which isn't that bad. Everything in moderation, right? There are definitely worse things to be addicted to. There are many different favors. I have only had the opportunity to try the two.

What's your favorite nut? Besides me of course  (There's that silliness again!). Do you cook with quinoa? It's my favorite food right now. That and beans, both of which lower LDL (bad cholesterol) and raise HDL (good cholesterol) levels. Tip: use coconut oil in your cooking and baking. It is very high in the fatty acids necessary to maintain nerve protection, joints, and low cholesterol, and increase MENTAL FUNCTION. <<whisper: I know a few people on here who could benefit from that, you know?>> unfortunately, costco. ( I know, I'm so horrible! But when you are on a VERY strict budget and a lot of your paycheck is being taken for taxes, what can you do?) is the only place we can afford our vitamins. I think it is morally reprehensible that health insurance won't help with those. They KEEP us healthy and for the most part OFF the chemically manufactured pharmas that western med is so instant on pushing on us, it's a scam I tell you! It's not a conspiracy bc it's true! The health insurance companies (health care is neither about "health" not "care") are in bed with pharmas. Or is it that they are the SAME. Company? You tell me. Things like TENS units, heating pads, vitamins, teas, slaves, etc should be covered. If people want to poison themselves, it could be (not necessarily Should be) on their dime. I live for the day when health insurance actually promotes healthy lifestyle and healing. What do you think? But as long as HI and pharmas own the government, they will get away with literal MURDER. Actually, Orange County and one other in CA are suing 5 major pharma companies for the SAME practices as the tobacco companies were sued for years ago. They are specifically focusing on narcotics, but most of them are just as bad.

I know I've gone way off topic, I apologize. I also apologize if there are any typos and grammatical errors. I want to respond as much as I can to your posts before I go to bed and my vision is getting worse by the minute.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I never said that the Hebrew Bible contained a prophecy of JESUS. I said that the book of Genesis showed the genealogy of JESUS. I can't prove that the writers of the New Testament didn't take a bloodline and follow it forward. I don't need to. I have faith. I wasn't trying to convince you or anybody else. I just made a statement and tried to explain why I believed it.


And besides, if Jesus was a Jew (which I believed he had to be, for who else could have been such a mensch (exceptionally good person)? Lol!!), then his bloodline can be traced back to Abraham just as much as mine can (there have been no inter marriages in my family until me). It would be hypocritical for any Jew to say that his genes cannot be traced back to Abraham, IMO. I do not believe that PP is a hypocrite, maybe she did considered this. I could be wrong and if so, I apologize, purl. I have the utmost respect for you and your ideas. If you have a differing belief from this, I respect that, too.

So it's not just faith, it's logic.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I definitely agree with this but I'm too tired to look at the links tonight. I'll check them out tomorrow. Thanks. I keep trying to catch up but can't. I gotta go to bed! Ttyl!


No worries! I'm right there with ya! Good night and sweet dreams! It was a pleasure talking with you. I look forward to getting to know you! L'chayim!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wasn't it "pole" she laughed at?


Did I object to that person laughing?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> And the ability to adapt is truly the mark of a great and intelligent brain! Go you! You truly are a strong and remarkable woman. Don't be too hard on yourself. Thank you so much for sharing.
> 
> After reading your experience, I still have to ask, what's MY excuse! Lol
> 
> I had to stop reading print when my vision got exponentially worse. That's one reason all my books are in storage. I had a procedure done and am now able to read for small periods of time. I can knit and crochet until it gets very late, though. It's like my brain just knows where things are supposed to go and what it's supposed to look like. I can also go by touch on certain stitches. These crafts have been my "saving grace" since I learned them AFTER my vision got poor. It made me feel very good about myself, especially bc I was even able to do lace fairly early.


That's wonderful, NC, you show such strength.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

SQM said:


> Oh that explains why I wake up every morning talking like Sophia Petrillo.


Do you fall asleep with the TV on?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> If he's cute, why not? It would be like Last Bagel in Paris.


For some reason I have a pudgy and hairy little guy pictured, maybe like Rhea Perlman's husband, I think I'll pass on any Lasts.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> This is for everyone that has bashed KPG on this subject. By the comments, you have no idea of what a Christian really is. God has closed your eyes and hardened your hearts.


Indeed? My next door neighbors epitomize what true Christians should strive to be. They honor themselves by their kindness to others, their understanding that people are different and may have different beliefs, their compassion for the ill, their honesty in all dealings we have had with them, their pure goodness. My next door neighbors would not call someone stupid, they would use gentle terms, that they have a different opinion, a different slant, can we discuss our viewpoints. They are not self righteous.

Their second daughter, a young adult, approached me in a loving and passionate letter about her fear for my soul if I did not join her in her faith. In a letter of response, I explained my viewpoint to her, thanking her for her love and caring. We hugged and agreed to respect each other as we had since she was a tiny child. This was a couple of years ago, and our families remain sincere friends.

The people who hide spitefulness, nastiness, constant criticism, among other negative characteristics behind a curtain of being Christian insult all true G-dly Christians as well as those who are true to their beliefs other than Christianity. They are as much hypocrites as the members of Hamas who practice deadly hatefulness in the name of an Islam that insults and damages the true follower of Allah and Mohammed.

Joey, it is better to remain silent than to defend the undefendable. Choose your friends wisely and cleave to the good and kind people you can find here. Of course you are free to scorn and denigrate what I say, but you are known by the company you keep. You seem so sincere in your basic beliefs. I disagree but respect your passion for your beliefs.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The only hummus I've had was tasteless. Perhaps the roasted garlic or red pepper might be good. I'll have to look for some.
> 
> Thank you for sharing the information. I find it all very interesting. I suppose I could google it, but its much better coming from a friend. Thanks!


If you find the Sabra brand of hummus, the roasted garlic variety is quite tasty. I enjoy it by slicing a carrot thinly on the diagonal to dip it. The contrast of soft and crunch, sweet and tangy is something I find delicious.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Sounds good! I love carrots.


My husband loves when I grate a carrot and add it to the chopped meat for meat loaf. I also put in a pinch of freshly grated nutmeg to punch up the rest of the flavors.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Indeed? My next door neighbors epitomize what true Christians should strive to be. They honor themselves by their kindness to others, their understanding that people are different and may have different beliefs, their compassion for the ill, their honesty in all dealings we have had with them, their pure goodness. My next door neighbors would not call someone stupid, they would use gentle terms, that they have a different opinion, a different slant, can we discuss our viewpoints. They are not self righteous.
> 
> Their second daughter, a young adult, approached me in a loving and passionate letter about her fear for my soul if I did not join her in her faith. In a letter of response, I explained my viewpoint to her, thanking her for her love and caring. We hugged and agreed to respect each other as we had since she was a tiny child. This was a couple of years ago, and our families remain sincere friends.
> 
> ...


So well put, Marilyn.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Empty lot? What's that? Many of the empty lots around here, those too small to build something humongous on, have become local gardens, shared by nearby residents. Whoever owns the land must either be very generous or the city.


Local gardens? That is so refreshing. In the past they usually became parking lots.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't you use real casing?


If I used "real" casing it would become fleishig. I like to keep it pareve so I can serve it with fish. And I personally find the concept of "real" casing to be gross. Just me.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you make the kind where the beets ferment in a crock, or is this just an easy peasy borscht, like kishka without the casing? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I use a 6 quart pot, two softball sized beets, a baseball sized onion, and water to within an inch of the top. I wear chef's disposable gloves to protect my hands from the red dye.I cut the beets thinly on a mandoline, quarter an onion, add water and simmer for about an hour and a half and let it sit for about a half hour.

Then I add a quarter cup organic sugar and a tablespoon sea salt, squeeze in the juice of one Meyer lemon, and toss in the lemon. Then it goes into the fridge, pot and all, to sit at least one day. I transfer it into glass jars, leaving the solids evenly distributed to steep in more flavor.

I serve it to D strained and with Breakstone's sour cream. He is a purist, no hard cooked egg, no boiled potato. He says it gets better with age. There is enough for a 12 ounce glass full a day for about 5 days.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Then you would like my mom's matzoh balls. Their real stinkers, I mean sinkers! Lol!! My gm made floaters that were just dense enough to hold together and not taste "aerated" (very accurate description of some matzoh balls). Oooooh they were so perfect! Yum! Sadly, she has not made matzoh balls in many years. My mom has gotten better at it. She said a few years back, "I didn't know you weren't suposed to completely pat them down." LOL!!!! :XD: :XD: :XD:


I still have the yortzeit glass my grandmother used to measure the matzo meal and water. Hers were like your gm's.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Thank you. How many more?


You know the drill, don't you? Biz a hundert un tzvantzik gezunter heid.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

cookiequeen said:


> I think I finally know the difference: treif, pareve, kosher. Too many terms. I suppose SQM will give me a test. She'll wait until tomorrow to see if can retain any information.


Pop quiz as soon as the bell rings.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You'd think? All I know is the times have changed, and not for the better.
> 
> In the Woody Allen movie Sleeper, he wakes up to learn that pastrami is considered a health food.


That is my guy's kind of world. Add a side of kishka and gravy and half sour pickles and that is his kind of manna.

I always wondered whether Al Capp got the concept of Shmoo from manna.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> Do they put a schmear on the matzot in the Protestant Church?


Are you talking a shmear whipped cream cheese or a shmear chicken schmaltz?

The next thing we need to discuss is gribenes.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> I've heard it. There was a radio program years ago whose host liked to throw in old Polish songs, and that was one of his favorites.


Bernie Goydish had a program on WCTC New Brunswick that featured polka music. It was a Sunday morning wake up call.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh, PP! You crack me up!! You're so WITTY!
> 
> I haven't seen those. Our "Passover isle" is limited to an end cap. Our "kosher isle" leaves much to be desired. There are no kosher markets around me, either. At least they started carrying macaroons again, but not the rocky road or toffee. :-( they used to have the matzoh with garlic powder, but the ones you described sound soooooo good.


Try taking your plain matzo and putting it on a cookie sheet, brush lightly with oil or melted butter, and sprinkle with your choice of flavor, garlic powder, dill, cinnamon sugar, etc. Bake at 350 about 10 minutes when it starts to smell really good, cool so you don't burn your mouth, and enjoy.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Not mine! If you think that THIS is how a Christian acts, you'd better get out your bible and read! JESUS said, "Be fishers of men". She's not trying to bring anyone to JESUS! She's chasing them away! She is the most unforgiving and intolerant person here. That is not what JESUS taught! Ask that your eyes be opened!


Maybe she interprets it as spear fishing?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> You make me sound like Moses. I was just there for a doctor's visit. Thanks for the good luck.


Oops, different Mt. Sinai???


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Do you mean a "bribe?" I don't understand what you are asking.


I thought you knew everything! You seem to imply that you do.

A shmear is a thin or not so thin slather of a creamy topping, like a shmear of cream cheese on a bagel or a shmear of schmaltz on a piece of matzo.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> That's much better than how I put it. I didn't mention how the Book that contained the psalms also had the books of Ruth and Esther, etc. I referred to it as "psalms". I'm so used to the Hebrew words (Torah, nevi'im, ketuvim) that the only English word I ever heard was the book of psalms. The Megillah is probably one of my favorites. I always wanted to dress as Esther on Purim.


You would probably love Purim down the street from me. The 9th graders in Hebrew High put on a musical comedy play, an act between each chapter of the Megilla Esther, with songs or verses. My husband has made groggers which have been distributed to friends and their children and to children in the bar/bas mitzva class who have attended services regularly. The original ones he made our kids 40 years ago are about three feet tall, but with the price of wood, the recent ones are about a foot long and fit into a duffel so they can be taken to college. The din is unreal. Many of us wear ear plugs or shooters' earmuffs.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Wombatnomore said:


> A bar-mix is a hand held blender. I'm sure there's a better name for it but I can't think of one!
> 
> These soups are so easy and quick to prepare. I often make them up as I go along. Recently I made carrot and poppy seed soup - divine.


Like an immersion blender? I lucked out and found one where the blade part twists off the motor part and goes in the dishwasher.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> We don't have basements here. More to collapse during an earthquake :-(
> 
> But that would be me! My problem was I discovered $0.01 books on amazon! I have a nook, but much prefer printed texts and hardback copies of books.
> 
> ...


Have you read "The Mists of Avalon", "The Red Tent", and "A Distant Mirror" The first is the Arthur story from the women's perspective, the second is about the Patriarchs' wives and the third is non fiction about the 14th Century written by the magnificent Barbara Tuchman.


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## Wombatnomore (Dec 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> Like an immersion blender? I lucked out and found one where the blade part twists off the motor part and goes in the dishwasher.


Yes. I bought one several years ago at a supermarket of all things and it has stood in good stead all these years. I use it a couple of times a week at a minimum. All I have to do is rinse it under very hot water to clean, dry with a tea towel and shove it back in a drawer!

Don't you love things that last? Doesn't happen too much anymore. :-(


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Really? You never heard anyone say "You have to schmear the super if you're interested in an apartment"?


No. I use shtup.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> No. I use shtup.


Not to be vulgar, but shtup has some bawdy connotations.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> And besides, if Jesus was a Jew (which I believed he had to be, for who else could have been such a mensch (exceptionally good person)? Lol!!), then his bloodline can be traced back to Abraham just as much as mine can (there have been no inter marriages in my family until me). It would be hypocritical for any Jew to say that his genes cannot be traced back to Abraham, IMO. I do not believe that PP is a hypocrite, maybe she did considered this. I could be wrong and if so, I apologize, purl. I have the utmost respect for you and your ideas. If you have a differing belief from this, I respect that, too.
> 
> So it's not just faith, it's logic.


My bloodline cannot be traced back to Abraham anymore than it can be traced back to Heathcliff, which would be my preference. There was so much intermarriage over the centuries that most Jews must have more than "Abraham's genes". I had my mitochondria tested and I came out H group which traces no further back than Western Europe. A friend of mine's traced back to the Middle East. I feel uncomfortable with Judaism and she loves it. Interesting.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitanon said:


> Do you fall asleep with the TV on?


Yeah.Doesn't everyone? And usually to Golden Girls.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

MarilynKnits said:


> Not to be vulgar, but shtup has some bawdy connotations.


That's why I use it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I don't know about the gazpacho. The thought of cold soup.....


Then don't think of it as soup. Think of it as refreshing vegetable juice so thick you have to eat it with a spoon rather than drink it down. It's a wonderful thing to have in hot weather.

Don't miss out on something just because you have a preconceived idea of what the word "soup" means.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I never said that the Hebrew Bible contained a prophecy of JESUS. I said that the book of Genesis showed the genealogy of JESUS. I can't prove that the writers of the New Testament didn't take a bloodline and follow it forward. I don't need to. I have faith. I wasn't trying to convince you or anybody else. I just made a statement and tried to explain why I believed it.


Okay.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

Just had to delete what I said.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> And besides, if Jesus was a Jew (which I believed he had to be, for who else could have been such a mensch (exceptionally good person)? Lol!!), then his bloodline can be traced back to Abraham just as much as mine can (there have been no inter marriages in my family until me). It would be hypocritical for any Jew to say that his genes cannot be traced back to Abraham, IMO. I do not believe that PP is a hypocrite, maybe she did considered this. I could be wrong and if so, I apologize, purl. I have the utmost respect for you and your ideas. If you have a differing belief from this, I respect that, too.
> 
> So it's not just faith, it's logic.


You didn't read carefully. I don't think I said that Jesus's blood line couldn't be traced to Abraham. (If I'm mistaken, KPG will undoubtedly pop up to call me a liar.) Neb said that *only* the blood lines leading from Abraham to Jesus are followed; the others are ignored. In other words, mine (and probably yours) could *not* be traced back to Abraham.

I don't know whether what she says is true, but I have seen translations from the Hebrew twisted in such a way that you have to come to the conclusion that - for example - the trinity was right there at Bereshit.

And I think you could look up the definition of "hypocrite." Being mistaken isn't hypocrisy.


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Some people who call themselves Christians, are not.


I'm glad you can admit that here in public. That's the first step for someone professing to be a Christian to actually become one.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> For some reason I have a pudgy and hairy little guy pictured, maybe like Rhea Perlman's husband, I think I'll pass on any Lasts.


That does it for me. No more cream cheese.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> You would be very interested on our ideas of "tzedakah" which is charity. It's about what you DO, not what you SAY. There are 8 forms of tzedakah. My favorite is the last one. "Enabling the recipient to become self reliant". I am a firm believer in the old saying "if you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. TEACH a man to fish and you will feed him for a lifetime."
> 
> http://www.jewfaq.org/m/tzedakah.htm
> 
> ...


Thank you, NC. Lots of food for thought.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Local gardens? That is so refreshing. In the past they usually became parking lots.


Not in residential parts of Manhattan. Every new apartment building (I think it's every one) has to have a garage. Garage owners would scream if there were outdoor lots.

This has been going on for easily 25 years, probably more. People go into empty lots one at a time and start planting. Eventually they're full of flowers and sometimes vegetables.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> If I used "real" casing it would become fleishig. I like to keep it pareve so I can serve it with fish. And I personally find the concept of "real" casing to be gross. Just me.


It _is_ gross. I wouldn't even touch it. I was just being silly.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I use a 6 quart pot, two softball sized beets, a baseball sized onion, and water to within an inch of the top. I wear chef's disposable gloves to protect my hands from the red dye.I cut the beets thinly on a mandoline, quarter an onion, add water and simmer for about an hour and a half and let it sit for about a half hour.
> 
> Then I add a quarter cup organic sugar and a tablespoon sea salt, squeeze in the juice of one Meyer lemon, and toss in the lemon. Then it goes into the fridge, pot and all, to sit at least one day. I transfer it into glass jars, leaving the solids evenly distributed to steep in more flavor.
> 
> I serve it to D strained and with Breakstone's sour cream. He is a purist, no hard cooked egg, no boiled potato. He says it gets better with age. There is enough for a 12 ounce glass full a day for about 5 days.


That sounds like quite an ordeal, and very traditional (except maybe the organic sugar and Meyer lemon; I don't think my grandmother knew from such things).

My mother-in-law put raw eggs into borscht. That's when I stopped eating it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> You know the drill, don't you? Biz a hundert un tzvantzik gezunter heid.


A sheinem dank.

If I expected to live to 120, I'd kill myself.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> That is my guy's kind of world. Add a side of kishka and gravy and half sour pickles and that is his kind of manna.
> 
> I always wondered whether Al Capp got the concept of Shmoo from manna.


That's a funny thought, but why? I guess they never ran out. We had a toy shmoo; it was weighted on the bottom so that it never stayed down, no matter how hard you kicked it.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Are you talking a shmear whipped cream cheese or a shmear chicken schmaltz?
> 
> The next thing we need to discuss is gribenes.


Oh, yes, we absolutely need to discuss gribenes.

Sorry, I forgot the sarcasm alert.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Try taking your plain matzo and putting it on a cookie sheet, brush lightly with oil or melted butter, and sprinkle with your choice of flavor, garlic powder, dill, cinnamon sugar, etc. Bake at 350 about 10 minutes when it starts to smell really good, cool so you don't burn your mouth, and enjoy.


I can't wait to try that. Unfortunately, today is Tisha B'Av.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Oops, different Mt. Sinai???


Yes. I love this smiley.


----------



## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> No. I use shtup.


Here we go, back to Last Tango in Paris.


----------



## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> We don't have basements here. More to collapse during an earthquake :-(
> 
> But that would be me! My problem was I discovered $0.01 books on amazon! I have a nook, but much prefer printed texts and hardback copies of books.
> 
> ...


The converse is true here. We NEED basements to protect us from tornados. Very few homes don't have them. And it's great to have the extra space. I don't like things to be crowded and cluttered. I'm constantly weeding out but seem to have accumulated anyway. I have the wall of books and another wall of shelves filled with baskets of my craft stuff. We have a food pantry down there and the rest of the stuff is my Hubby's computer and electronic stuff. Great space.

When it comes to fiction, I like science fiction, thrillers and crime novels. I like to solve the crime before it's revealed. I like the excitement. I hate romance novels! Won't touch them! I read some religious fiction but nothing syrupy sweet, more mystery related, like relating to archeological discoveries, that sort of thing. I know I'll get made fun of for this, but apocalyptic novels. They all keep my brain busy.

I am not into textbooks but have lots of knitting books. Those aren't downstairs, they're in my "yarn room". I've turned my guestroom into a yarn room. The walls are lined with cubicle shelving and filled with yarn. 
 Much of it is cheap yarn as I knit a lot of toys. I also bought a former knitter's stash off of Craig's list too. So I have a lot of " yarn store" yarn. My family knows that my preferred gifts are gift cards to the yarn store, so that helps build my stash too. The closet is filled with plastic file boxes full of knitting books, magazines and patterns I've printed off the internet. If I live to be 100, I couldn't possibly finish all of the projects I have planned. :lol:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Most Deceptive Word In The English Language
> 
> August 4, 2014 by Bob Livingston


Wasn't Bob Livingston the GOP leader who had to quit when they found out he was having an affair while trying to impeach Clinton? So he understands lying.

Wikipedia adds "Livingston was succeeded by David Vitter  who later became the first popularly elected Republican U.S. senator from Louisiana and subsequently admitted to having been involved in a prostitution ring run by Deborah Jeane Palfrey." You gotta hand it to these family values guys.

I can't understand why the Republican Party is going all out to turn the very respectable word "democracy" into an obscenity.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Very good! I'm impressed! It's actually "Baruch atah Adonai ". Which means "blessed art though Lord" and is usually followed by "eloheinu", "our G-d". It is the beginning of most of our prayers. A lot of what you think are prayers are actually Psalms. They are sung quite beautifully, aren't they? They are traditionally sung in the same way, but there are variations depending on demographics.
> 
> Interesting fact: they (somewhat) recently discovered a tribe of Jews living in Africa who possessed a very old Torah. This tribe was on the SAME portion that the rest of the Jews throughout the world were on, despite having been cut off from their brethren for quite some time. I learned of this years ago and right now my eyesight is getting poorer so I can't search for the article right now.
> The reason I know this is true is bc the reading of the Torah is on a a schedule. Every portion has a day of the week it will be read, starting soon after our new year on the holiday simchat Torah, or "rejoicing of the Torah". On this holiday we dance, sing, drink, and be merry! Actually, most of our holidays are like that. We Jews know how to have a good time! We finish the last parsha (portion) of Deuteronomy and begin the first parsha of genesis on this day (which is actually sundown to sundown) Every week there is a new parsha. I am a bit hazy on the details of how they work the parshot (pl) with the leap year, which adds a month. It is quite complicated, but somehow they figured it out and Jews in Israel, Asia, Australia and the United States are all on the same parsha at the same time.
> ...


I love the (sung) psalms just as I love the hymns of worship that we use to celebrate! Music is wonderful for the soul.

I'm fascinated by the recently discovered tribe of Jews in Africa! I googled it and there are lots of articles. I'm going to read up on that. Thanks for telling me about it! Its amazing that they were following along at the very same pace. That surely cannot be coincidence, can it?

I have really enjoyed our discussions too! This is what I love! I look forward to many more!


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

So, a day of sad rememberances...do you fast until sundown? Interesting day to pray for a lasting cease fire or at least no catastrophies. Hope it speeds by. 


Poor Purl said:


> I can't wait to try that. Unfortunately, today is Tisha B'Av.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Wasn't Bob Livingston the GOP leader who had to quit when they found out he was having an affair while trying to impeach Clinton? So he understands lying.
> 
> Wikipedia adds "Livingston was succeeded by David Vitter  who later became the first popularly elected Republican U.S. senator from Louisiana and subsequently admitted to having been involved in a prostitution ring run by Deborah Jeane Palfrey." You gotta hand it to these family values guys.
> 
> I can't understand why the Republican Party is going all out to turn the very respectable word "democracy" into an obscenity.


It is pretty easy to understand really, they want monied people to run things. A democracy, with a voice for all, is diametrically opposed to that. They don't believe in the good that government can and should do. 
I figure that the joke is on the politicians who support the people with money having their way in running the US since they probably believe they will be included in that. It seems to me that while they may seem really wealthy to working class folks those with real wealth will just toss them aside after they have gained control and taken what they want, if allowed by the little people. 
Someday the manipulation will have to be seen for what it is.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Oh no! Oatmeal is NOT oatmeal! You MUST try coaches oats!! Now THOSE are like mana from heaven!! LOL!!!! But I will DEFINITELY get the ones from trader joes the next time I'm there. Granny and dh will especially like them! And I will feel ok giving it to them bc as you pointed out, they're not that bad.
> 
> Genius juice is chok full of vitamins. It is more a snack than a drink. I have one for breakfast. They are lactose and dairy free, no additives, preservatives... You get the picture. You could easily have one with your frappuccino! Which isn't that bad. Everything in moderation, right? There are definitely worse things to be addicted to. There are many different favors. I have only had the opportunity to try the two.
> 
> ...


I'm not an oatmeal connoisseur. I just eat it because I don't like cereral. I put a little brown sugar or fruit in it. I'll look for the Coach's brand and check it out. My favorite nut is raw almonds, yum. I do have quinoa and use it occasionally but I prefer the texture of rice, the bad stuff, white rice. We love all kinds of beans, both canned and dried. But I try to plan those for Friday and Saturday nights. You know why. I have lots of different kinds of dried beans in my food storage!

I do a lot of my shopping at Costco and Sams. More value for the money. I try to use as many organic things as possible but we aren't all organic. A lot of the organic stuff is being corrupted by the GMOs so I don't think we can avoid it. Sams carries organic coconut oil. I use it in some of my cooking but in some things, the coconut flavor bleeds through and changes the taste. So I go back and forth. I use a lot of olive oil and a little canola oil (I know, its GMO).

Don't even get me started on big pharma! I agree with everything you said! The same small group of people own everything, including the politicians! The pharmaceutical companies donate to the medical schools and dictate what doctors learn. Doctors no longer try to find out what's wrong with you and cure you. They treat your symptoms with a pill and then give you another pill for the side effects of the first pill and so on and so on. I believe that most disease can be cured with good nutrition and a healthy immune system. Over the years, food growing practices have eliminated the vitamins and minerals from our foods. I take supplements. But if Codex Alimentarious ever becomes the law of the land, we'll all be sick. You should read about it. Its outrageous!

We do tend to stray, don't we?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> If you find the Sabra brand of hummus, the roasted garlic variety is quite tasty. I enjoy it by slicing a carrot thinly on the diagonal to dip it. The contrast of soft and crunch, sweet and tangy is something I find delicious.


Thanks! Now I have lots of new things to try.  I'll look for that.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> My husband loves when I grate a carrot and add it to the chopped meat for meat loaf. I also put in a pinch of freshly grated nutmeg to punch up the rest of the flavors.


Its never occurred to me to add carrots to anything but soups and salads. Thanks for the ideas.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Indeed? My next door neighbors epitomize what true Christians should strive to be. They honor themselves by their kindness to others, their understanding that people are different and may have different beliefs, their compassion for the ill, their honesty in all dealings we have had with them, their pure goodness. My next door neighbors would not call someone stupid, they would use gentle terms, that they have a different opinion, a different slant, can we discuss our viewpoints. They are not self righteous.
> 
> Their second daughter, a young adult, approached me in a loving and passionate letter about her fear for my soul if I did not join her in her faith. In a letter of response, I explained my viewpoint to her, thanking her for her love and caring. We hugged and agreed to respect each other as we had since she was a tiny child. This was a couple of years ago, and our families remain sincere friends.
> 
> ...


Beautiful!!!

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> My bloodline cannot be traced back to Abraham anymore than it can be traced back to Heathcliff, which would be my preference. There was so much intermarriage over the centuries that most Jews must have more than "Abraham's genes". I had my mitochondria tested and I came out H group which traces no further back than Western Europe. A friend of mine's traced back to the Middle East. I feel uncomfortable with Judaism and she loves it. Interesting.


Here's a really interesting article! Scientists, using mitochondrial DNA have traced the roots of Ashkenazi Jews back to European women. Fascinating stuff!http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Then don't think of it as soup. Think of it as refreshing vegetable juice so thick you have to eat it with a spoon rather than drink it down. It's a wonderful thing to have in hot weather.
> 
> Don't miss out on something just because you have a preconceived idea of what the word "soup" means.


Perhaps....


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> If I used "real" casing it would become fleishig. I like to keep it pareve so I can serve it with fish. And I personally find the concept of "real" casing to be gross. Just me.


Fleishig! That's the word I was looking for!

Cookie and KFN, and anyone else who is interested; fleishig refers to meat products in the "kosher world".


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> You know the drill, don't you? Biz a hundert un tzvantzik gezunter heid.


My bubbie used to say that!!

"May you live to be a hundred and twenty!

Right? It's been so long since I've heard it in Yiddish. She passed when I was 6 1/2 years old. Now my gm says it in English.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Try taking your plain matzo and putting it on a cookie sheet, brush lightly with oil or melted butter, and sprinkle with your choice of flavor, garlic powder, dill, cinnamon sugar, etc. Bake at 350 about 10 minutes when it starts to smell really good, cool so you don't burn your mouth, and enjoy.


Thanks marylinknits! I will definitely do that.

You know, Pesach is my FAVORITE holiday.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> Have you read "The Mists of Avalon", "The Red Tent", and "A Distant Mirror" The first is the Arthur story from the women's perspective, the second is about the Patriarchs' wives and the third is non fiction about the 14th Century written by the magnificent Barbara Tuchman.


I have not red the others, but mists of Avalon is my FAVORITE book! I love all of Marion Zimmer Bradley's work. My mom has the other two. Have you read "the books of Rachel"? It follows the lineage of Jewish women, all named Rachel, from the time of the Spanish Inquisition to the 1970s. It is quite moving.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

MarilynKnits said:


> You would probably love Purim down the street from me. The 9th graders in Hebrew High put on a musical comedy play, an act between each chapter of the Megilla Esther, with songs or verses. My husband has made groggers which have been distributed to friends and their children and to children in the bar/bas mitzva class who have attended services regularly. The original ones he made our kids 40 years ago are about three feet tall, but with the price of wood, the recent ones are about a foot long and fit into a duffel so they can be taken to college. The din is unreal. Many of us wear ear plugs or shooters' earmuffs.


Sounds wonderful! Like my kind of party! I used to do that when I was in Hebrew school/high. I would love to see pictures of you dh's groggers. They sound like works of art.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

SQM said:


> No. I use shtup.


 :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You didn't read carefully. I don't think I said that Jesus's blood line couldn't be traced to Abraham. (If I'm mistaken, KPG will undoubtedly pop up to call me a liar.) Neb said that *only* the blood lines leading from Abraham to Jesus are followed; the others are ignored. In other words, mine (and probably yours) could *not* be traced back to Abraham.
> 
> I don't know whether what she says is true, but I have seen translations from the Hebrew twisted in such a way that you have to come to the conclusion that - for example - the trinity was right there at Bereshit.
> 
> And I think you could look up the definition of "hypocrite." Being mistaken isn't hypocrisy.


What I meant is only one bloodline is detailed in the bible, that of the Jews. All of the other "sons and daughters" of Noah(?) went on to become different groups of people, the Babylonians, the Syrians, the Egyptians etc... But even within Abram's family, the only ones who are followed in detail, are those who lead to JESUS. Only one branch of Abraham's family tree is followed, that of Isaac and Jacob and so on, right down to JESUS.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> You didn't read carefully. I don't think I said that Jesus's blood line couldn't be traced to Abraham. (If I'm mistaken, KPG will undoubtedly pop up to call me a liar.) Neb said that *only* the blood lines leading from Abraham to Jesus are followed; the others are ignored. In other words, mine (and probably yours) could *not* be traced back to Abraham.
> 
> I don't know whether what she says is true, but I have seen translations from the Hebrew twisted in such a way that you have to come to the conclusion that - for example - the trinity was right there at Bereshit.
> 
> And I think you could look up the definition of "hypocrite." Being mistaken isn't hypocrisy.


Oh, and unless you're an Ashkenazi Jew or a convert, your bloodline can be followed back too. Its just not detailed in the bible.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Not in residential parts of Manhattan. Every new apartment building (I think it's every one) has to have a garage. Garage owners would scream if there were outdoor lots.
> 
> This has been going on for easily 25 years, probably more. People go into empty lots one at a time and start planting. Eventually they're full of flowers and sometimes vegetables.


Do the buildings in Manhattan have rooftop gardens?


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Here's a really interesting article! Scientists, using mitochondrial DNA have traced the roots of Ashkenazi Jews back to European women. Fascinating stuff!http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/


Interesting article. I am in the H group - only 20% of Jewish women are in this group. But a clever rabbi told me that Jewish men would travel the world and mate with women who converted. Again interesting.


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Poor Purl said:


> You didn't read carefully. I don't think I said that Jesus's blood line couldn't be traced to Abraham. (If I'm mistaken, KPG will undoubtedly pop up to call me a liar.) Neb said that *only* the blood lines leading from Abraham to Jesus are followed; the others are ignored. In other words, mine (and probably yours) could *not* be traced back to Abraham.
> 
> I don't know whether what she says is true, but I have seen translations from the Hebrew twisted in such a way that you have to come to the conclusion that - for example - the trinity was right there at Bereshit.
> 
> And I think you could look up the definition of "hypocrite." Being mistaken isn't hypocrisy.


I think you misunderstood me. I was saying it as a " besides" and that in general the Jews who do not have intermarriage (which was incredibly uncommon at the time) could be traced back to Abraham regardless of who begot who.

There is so much inserted and changed it is somewhat hard to follow. Like how the Torah (I don't remember which verse) predicts the coming of Jesus, which it does not.

And I did specify that "mistaken" (actually, I said " maybe had not considered this" which is almost the same thing) is different than "hypocrisy".


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

The Genealogy from Adam to Jesus Christ

ADAM (1)
"The Son of God" and The First Adam

SETH (2)

ENOS (3)

CAINAN (4)

MAHALEEL (5)

JARED (6)

ENOCH (7)

METHUSALEH (8)

LAMECH (9)

NOAH (10)

SHEM (11)

ARPHAXAD (12)

CAINAN (13)

SALA (14)

EBER (15)

PELEG (16)

RAGAU (17)

SARUCH (18)

NAHOR (19)

TERAH (20)

(1) ABRAHAM (21)

(2) ISAAC (22)

(3) JACOB (23)

(4) JUDA (24)
m. Tamar
---> Zera
(Matthew 1:3)

(5) PHAREZ (25)

(6) ESROM (26)

(7) ARAM (27)

(8) AMMINADAB (28)

(9) NAASON (29)

(10) SALMON (30)
m. Rachab
(Sala: Luke 3:32)

(11) BOAZ (31)
m. Ruth

(12) OBED (32)

(13) JESSE (33)

(14) DAVID (34)
m. Bathsheba (Luke 3:31)

(1) SOLOMON
Matthew 1:6

NATHAN (35)
(2 Sam.5.14)
(2) REHOBOAM 
(3) ABIA

MATTATHA (36)

(4) ASA

MENAN (37)

(5) JOSOPHAT
OMRI

MELEA (38)
|

ELIAKIM (39)
AHAB m. Jezebel |

JONAN (40)

(6) JORAM
m. Athaliah

JOSEPH (41)

(Ahaziah)
(Joash) (Amaziah)

JUDAH (42)

SIMEON (43)

LEVI (44)

(7) OZIAS

MATTHAT (45)

(8) JOATHAM

JORIM (46)

(9) ACHAZ

ELIEZER (47)

(10) EZEKIAS

JOSE (48)
(11) MANASSES

ER (49)

(12) AMON

ELMODAM (50)

(13) JOSIAS

COSAM (51)

(14) JEHOIKIM
(who had brothers, Matthew 1:11)

ADDI (52)

MELCHI (53)
(1) JECHONIAS (55) m. ---> 
(2) SALATHIEL (56) Widowed daughter 
husband deceased

NERI (54)
<------

(Evidently Salathiel died childless and Pedaiah, his brother, married his widow according to Deut. 25,5,6)

wife m. PEDAIAH
(Quite legally according to the Mosaic law, Pedaiah's name does not appear as the father of Zerubbabel in either Matthew or Luke.)

(3) ZERUBBABEL (57)
(1 Chr. 3:19)

daughter
SHELOMITH --> m RHESA (58)

(4) ABIUD

JOANNA (59)
(5) ELIAKIM

JUDA (60)

JOSEPH (61)
(6) AZOR

SEMEI (62)
MATTATHIAS (63)
(7) SADOC

MAATH (64)
(8) ACHIM

NAGGE (65)

ESLI (66)

NAHUM (67)

(9) ELIUD

AMOS (68)
MATTATHIAS (69)
(10) ELEAZER

JOSEPH (70)

JANNA (71)
(11) MATTHAN

MELCHI (72)

LEVI (73)

MATTHAT (74)

(12) JACOB

HELI (75)
(13) JOSEPH m. MARY (76)

(14) JESUS (77)
The Son of God and the Last Adam

The Line of Jesus through Joseph

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham was the father of Isaac, and Isaac the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers, and Judah the father of Perez and Zerah by Tamar, and Perez the father of Hezron, and Hezron the father of Ram, and Ram the father of Amminadab, and Amminadab the father of Nahshon, and Nahshon the father of Salmon, and Salmon the father of Boaz by Rahab, and Boaz the father of Obed by Ruth, and Obed the father of Jesse, and Jesse the father of David the king. And David was the father of Solomon by the wife of Uriah, and Solomon the father of Rehoboam, and Rehoboam the father of Abijah, and Abijah the father of Asa, and Asa the father of Jehoshaphat, and Jehoshaphat the father of Joram, and Joram the father of Uzziah, and Uzziah the father of Jotham, and Jotham the father of Ahaz, and Ahaz the father of Hezekiah, and Hezekiah the father of Manasseh, and Manasseh the father of Amos, and Amos the father of Josiah, and Josiah the father of Jechoniah and his brothers, at the time of the deportation to Babylon. And after the deportation to Babylon: Jechoniah was the father of Shealtiel, and Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel, and Zerubbabel the father of Abiud, and Abiud the father of Eliakim, and Eliakim the father of Azor, and Azor the father of Zadok, and Zadok the father of Achim, and Achim the father of Eliud, and Eliud the father of Eleazar, and Eleazar the father of Matthan, and Matthan the father of Jacob, and Jacob the father of Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom Jesus was born, who is called Christ. So all the generations from Abraham to David were fourteen generations, and from David to the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations, and from the deportation to Babylon to the Christ fourteen generations. (Matthew 1:1-17)

The Line of Jesus Through Mary

Jesus, when he began his ministry, was about thirty years of age, being the son (as was supposed) of Joseph, the son of Heli, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melchi, the son of Jannai, the son of Joseph, the son of Mattathias, the son of Amos, the son of Nahum, the son of Esli, the son of Naggai, the son of Maath, the son of Mattathias, the son of Semein, the son of Josech, the son of Joda, the son of Joanan, the son of Rhesa, the son of Zerubbabel, the son of Shealtiel, the son of Neri, the son of Melchi, the son of Addi, the son of Cosam, the son of Elmadam, the son of Er, the son of Joshua, the son of Eliezer, the son of Jorim, the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Simeon, the son of Judah, the son of Joseph, the son of Jonam, the son of Eliakim, the son of Melea, the son of Menna, the son of Mattatha, the son of Nathan, the son of David, the son of Jesse, the son of Obed, the son of Boaz, the son of Sala, the son of Nahshon, the son of Amminadab, the son of Admin, the son of Arni, the son of Hezron, the son of Perez, the son of Judah, the son of Jacob, the son of Isaac, the son of Abraham, the son of Terah, the son of Nahor, the son of Serug, the son of Reu, the son of Peleg, the son of Eber, the son of Shelah, the son of Cainan, the son of Arphaxad, the son of Shem, the son of Noah, the son of Lamech, the son of Methuselah, the son of Enoch, the son of Jared, the son of Mahalaleel, the son of Cainan, the son of Enos, the son of Seth, the son of Adam, the son of God. (Luke 3:23:38)

The Combined Genealogies of Matthew and Luke
(from The Seed of the Woman)

By Arthur C. Custance (http://custance.org)

The study of an ancient genealogy can be quite fascinating but it takes a little getting into and demands more than ordinary dedication.

The two genealogies of our Lord which together establish his absolute right to the throne of David, both by blood relationship through Mary and by title through Mary's husband, bear close examination. For they show how the two lines were preserved at one particularly critical period when almost all family relationships in Israel were being disrupted. This was at the time of the Captivity in Babylon. It is shown in a standard genealogy chart as a kind of "wasp-waist" joining the head and the body of the genealogy above and below Zerubbabel.

The details of this gate are the subject of this Appendix. It seemed important to say something about the circumstances here because it is at this point in the line that the blood relationship between the Lord and David comes nearest to being destroyed.

The numbers which appear against the names in the Tabulation represent the two different systems of accounting adopted by Matthew, on the left side, and Luke, on the right. In Matthew, David appears as the 14th name from Abraham: in Luke David is the 34th name from Adam. The red line represents the blood line connection: the yellow line represents the carrying of title to the throne of David.

David had two sons who figure as heads of the two branches of the family as indicated in Matthew and Luke, namely, Solomon and Nathan. In Matthew's genealogy Solomon becomes No. 1 in the second group of 14 names: and in Luke's genealogy Nathan becomes No. 35 on the other branch line.

From Solomon we move down to Joram, No. 6. Joram married Athaliah, the wicked daughter of a wicked father and mother (Ahab and Jezebel). As a consequence of this evil man and his wife, his seed was cursed for four generations in accordance with the reference made in Exodus 20:5. Thus Matthew, who probably follows the Temple records faithfully in his list, omits the next three names (Ahaziah, Joash, and Amaziah) from his genealogy. There is little doubt that these Temple records had, by divine providence, removed these three generations from the register, so that Ozias (No. 7) appears as though he were the son of Joram, No. 6, in the accounting of Matthew 1:8. We know from 1 Chronicles 3:11 and 12 that in the original court records, these three missing names were written down. In this court record, Ozias (No. 7) is given an alternative name Azariah (1 Chron. 3:12), and elsewhere he is also called Uzziah (Isa. 6:1). These are merely variants of the same name.

We pass on to No. 14, Jehoiakim. It is important to note that his name ends with an M, not an N, and he is not to be confused with his son whose name was Jehoiakin (or alternatively Jeconiah, Jechonias, Coniah, and Conias). This multivariant form of a name applied to a single individual is common in many of the older cultures. It seems to be particularly prevalent in Russia, even today.

Now, with Jehoiakim (No. 14) we begin to see the hand of God at work in a very special way separating the thread of continuity of blood relationship and titular right to the throne in David's family. Jehoiakim was the last king of Israel to come to the throne as a free man. Unfortunately he was both an evil man and a foolish one. He began his reign just when the Fertile Crescent was in a state of political turmoil, Nebuchadnezzar in particular having very ambitious designs for empire building which were challenged by Egypt. In this see-saw contest for power that habitually characterized the relationship between Egypt and Babylon, Palestine stood at the pivot point. But Jerusalem itself need not really have become involved, for the city actually stood off the main route between the two warring parties. Any king of Judah who kept out of the fray and conciliated the antagonists as they marched their armies back and forth to attack each other, could expect to be left more or less alone except for paying token tribute.

Jehoiakim was not humble enough or wise enough to realize this, and provoked Nebuchadnezzar to attack Jerusalem. This was the Lord's way of punishing a wicked man who had unwisely aligned himself with the king of Egypt. His immediate punishment was to have his city besieged and overrun, and to be carried captive to Babylon (2 Chron. 36:5,6). But for some reason Nebuchadnezzar decided to return him to Jerusalem as a puppet king while he completed his unfinished business in Egypt. His long range punishment was foretold by Jeremiah (36:30) that none of his seed should ever sit upon the throne of David. This was a severe blow to him because he was in the direct line, as Matthew's genealogy shows, and probably had every expectation of seeing this greatest of all honors accorded to his seed in due time.

Meanwhile Nebuchadnezzar, having completed his Egyptian campaign, soon discovered that Jehoiakim was a treacherous man who could not be trusted by friend or foe. Indeed, so treacherous was he that even the people of his own city, Jerusalem, turned against him, murdered him, threw his body over the walls and left him unburied outside the city - exactly as predicted by Jeremiah (22:18,19). Nebuchadnezzar must surely have known what had happened, but he did not interfere when Jehoiakin (i.e., Jechonias, No. 55) succeeded his father.

But this young prince who was only eighteen years old when thus honoured (2 Kings 24:8) proved to have no more good sense than his evil father. He provoked Nebuchadnezzar (after only three months and ten days on the throne) to invest the city once more and depose him (2 Chron. 36:9). Jechonias and all his court were taken captive to Babylon while his uncle, Zedekiah, was left as regent. Unfortunately, Zedekiah behaved as the rest of his family had done and eleven years later, Nebuchadnezzar seized Zedekiah, put all his sons to death before his eyes, and then deliberately blinded him. Zedekiah was taken to Babylon and died there. Jerusalem meanwhile was utterly destroyed (2 Kings 24:17-25:16).

Now Jechonias, after being taken to Babylon, was put in prison where he remained for some thirty-seven years. It appears that either before he was taken captive or possibly during his captivity he was married to a woman of appropriate status who appears to have been a daughter of Neri (No. 54 in Nathan's branch of the family) and therefore of David's line. In order to account for the subsequent relationships shown in the two converging genealogies, we have to assume that this woman was a widow whose husband had probably been killed in one of the many sieges which Jerusalem had suffered. It seems as though the prophet Zechariah had this circumstance in mind (12:12). This widow already had a son by her deceased husband when Jechonias took her as a wife. This son's name was Pedaiah. His name is not numbered in the genealogy shown in the chart. It appears only in 1 Chronicles 3:18 where he is shown as a son of Jehoiakin (i.e., Jechonias). If his widowed mother was married to Jechonias, he would by Jewish custom become the son of Jechonias automatically.

But Jechonias appears to have had a son of his own by this widow of the royal line. This son's name was Salathiel (No. 2 and No. 56 in the two pedigree lines). By this marriage of a widow to Jechonias, these two boys - sons of the same mother - would become brothers by Jewish custom.

However, Salathiel appears to have died childless, though not until he had reached manhood and married a wife. Jehoiakim's blood line thus came to an end in his grandson Salathiel - indicated by termination of the red line. But as it happens the actual title to the throne remained active. The curse of Jeremiah 36:30 was to be fulfilled not by the removal of the title itself from Jehoiakim's line but by the denial of that title to anyone who happened to be a blood relative in the line. With the death of Salathiel this blood line terminated.

But now, according to Jewish custom as set forth in the principle of the Levirate (Deut. 25:5,6), it became incumbent upon Pedaiah, the deceased Salathiel's (step) brother, to take his widow and raise up seed through her who would not therefore be of Salathiel's blood line but would be constituted legally as Salathiel's son through whom the title would pass to his descendants. The son of this Levirate union was Zerubbabel. In Matthew 1:12 and Luke 3:27 Zerubbabel is listed legally as Salathiel's son: but in 1 Chronicles 3:19 he is listed as the son of Pedaiah by actual blood relationship.

In the terms of biblical reckoning these two statements are in no sense contradictory. We might wish to be more precise by substituting such extended terms of relationship as son-in-law, stepson, and so forth. But Scripture is not required to adopt our particular terminology. It is required only to be consistent with itself, and the facts of the case as recorded of those who were the actors in the drama are precisely as stated.

We thus have a remarkable chain of events. Jehoiakim has a son, Jechonias, who has a son, Salathiel, who by Levirate custom has a son named Zerubbabel. This son, Zerubbabel, has no blood line connection whatever with Jechonias, for he has no blood relationship with Salathiel. The blood relationship of Zerubbabel is with Pedaiah, and through Pedaiah with Pedaiah's mother, and through this mother with Neri. Thus Neri begat a grandson, Salathiel, through his daughter; and Salathiel "begets" a son, Zerubbabel, through Pedaiah.

The blood line thus passes through Zerubbabel: but so does the title also. The former passes via Pedaiah's mother, the latter passes through Salathiel's father. And though this mother and this father were also man and wife, the blood line stopped with Salathiel who literally died childless. It is necessary to emphasize this word literally, for it appears that it was literally true. Jeremiah 22:30 had predicted that Jechonias would also die "childless"-but we are reasonably sure that this was not literally the case, for he had a son Salathiel whom we cannot otherwise account for. But Jechonias' subsequent history tells us the sense in which childlessness was to be applied to him.

Jechonias seems to have matured and softened during his thirty-seven years of imprisonment in Babylon, and Nebuchadnezzar's son, Evil-Merodach, evidently took a liking to him and set him free, giving him a pension for the rest of his life (2 Kings 25:27-30: Jer. 52:31-34). He would by now be nearing sixty and probably be counted a harmless old man.

Reading these two records of Scripture concerning this surprising act of clemency accorded to the last genuine king of Israel (until Messiah shall be crowned), one has a strange sense of the mercy of God and the potential for gracious action that even pagan kings could display in those days. It is a touching swan-song to the old kingdom of David's line which will yet be renewed in glory. At any rate, when Jechonias died, he seems to have died alone without male descendants, "childless" in his old age, as Jeremiah had predicted he would.

As to Zerubbabel, he became a very prominent and worthy man in the rebuilding of Israel's fortunes after the Captivity, under the benevolent authority of Cyrus. He stands as No. 3 and No. 57 in the dual pedigree. He appears to have had several sons and one daughter (1 Chron. 3:19). We do not know why his sons were disqualified: we only know that their sister, Shelomith, inherited the title and carried the blood line. Both of these she passed on to her eldest son, Abiud, and so to Joseph. But with Joseph, as with Salathiel, the blood line terminated once again in so far as the Lord Jesus received nothing from him by natural procreation. However, Mary drew her line, the blood line, through Heli from Joanna (No. 59), the second son of Shelomith.

And thus the Lord Jesus received the two guarantees of right to the throne of David: the blood line through his mother directly, and the title through his adopting father, Joseph. With his death and resurrection these two rights became locked for ever in his Person and cannot be passed on to, or henceforth claimed by, any other man.

The chart at the top of the page is from Arthur Custance's book, "The Seed of the Woman."

See also Arthur C. Custance, "The Genealogies of the Bible: A Neglected Subject."


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I can't wait to try that. Unfortunately, today is Tisha B'Av.


I just looked up read read about Tisha B'Av. Is the ninth of Av one specific day on the Jewish calendar? If it is one day, I'm shocked that both temples were destroyed on the same day. I didn't know that. I read about the five calamities all happening on the ninth of Av. That has to be divine. Too coincidental to be anything else. I'm learning so many new things. Thanks.

I'll say a special prayer today.


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## Camacho (Feb 3, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Yah, there's a reason for that. NO ONE likes it! Lol! You can put anything in kishka. Do you have it with the gravy? You HAVE to have it with the gravy. Ok, now I think I need to go to dinner at the only deli in my area, which is about 13 miles away. Not too bad since it's all freeway driving. I need to have some kishka and "chicken in a pot", which is a huge bowl filled with chicken soup, kaneidelah <purl, help me with the spelling of that one> (matzoh balls) and kreplach. Mmmmm. Ooh! And a pastrami sandwich on rye with brown deli mustard. Now THATS what I'm talking about! Yummmmmeeeeeeeee....    .
> 
> Want to join me? Lol!


I'd love to join you. I'm sitting here salivating.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> It is pretty easy to understand really, they want monied people to run things. A democracy, with a voice for all, is diametrically opposed to that. They don't believe in the good that government can and should do.
> I figure that the joke is on the politicians who support the people with money having their way in running the US since they probably believe they will be included in that. It seems to me that while they may seem really wealthy to working class folks those with real wealth will just toss them aside after they have gained control and taken what they want, if allowed by the little people.
> Someday the manipulation will have to be seen for what it is.


IMO, those who run things are merely well rewarded puppets. Those with real wealth are the puppeteers.

The theory of democracy sounds like a great thing. The problem lies when you are not in the majority. Just stop and think, you could be required to do something that goes against everything you believe. People are fickle, easily led. And the pendulum swings both ways. Individual rights are far more valuable than mob rule. Our founding fathers formed a representative republic for this very reason, to protect individual rights. IMO, over the years politicians keep referring to us as a democracy to force controlling legislation upon us. They say the majority wants it. They keep using the term "democracy" as if to convince us that we are not a republic that supports individual rights. A whole generation has grown up believing that we are a democracy in which the winner takes all. Its sad! What built this nation and made her great were her freedoms and the protection of rights for the individual. When the pendulum swings the other way and majority rule forces you to accept what you can't, you'll wish we had our republic back.

That said, a representative republic requires honesty and altruism. The people need to replace the corrupt government with one who will represent them. Even those with whom we agree are corrupt. They are bought and paid for! Time to start over! I will vote for NO incumbents!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Fleishig! That's the word I was looking for!
> 
> Cookie and KFN, and anyone else who is interested; fleishig refers to meat products in the "kosher world".


Thanks! Now I understand.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> My bubbie used to say that!!
> 
> "May you live to be a hundred and twenty!
> 
> Right? It's been so long since I've heard it in Yiddish. She passed when I was 6 1/2 years old. Now my gm says it in English.


If " bubbie" is grandma, what is gm? Your other grandma?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> So, a day of sad rememberances...do you fast until sundown? Interesting day to pray for a lasting cease fire or at least no catastrophies. Hope it speeds by.


Experience teaches one that fast days are never fast. (An example of a homophone, a word which will live in infamy, or hilarity.) The only way to speed the time is to sleep, which is easy because I haven't had my coffee.

I wish such commemorations would have some effect on the present occupants of the country, but they have had one bad lesson too many. I'm afraid Netanyahu has overstepped himself, and Hamas has shown that it cannot be trusted.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Interesting article. I am in the H group - only 20% of Jewish women are in this group. But a clever rabbi told me that Jewish men would travel the world and mate with women who converted. Again interesting.


It might explain why Tay Sachs is so prevalent in the Ashkenazi. A different genetic line.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitanon said:


> It is pretty easy to understand really, they want monied people to run things. A democracy, with a voice for all, is diametrically opposed to that. They don't believe in the good that government can and should do.
> I figure that the joke is on the politicians who support the people with money having their way in running the US since they probably believe they will be included in that. It seems to me that while they may seem really wealthy to working class folks those with real wealth will just toss them aside after they have gained control and taken what they want, if allowed by the little people.
> Someday the manipulation will have to be seen for what it is.


Unfortunately, someday may be too late.

I do understand about why the right is trying to murder democracy, but I wondered whether Joey had any idea that this is what she's supporting. She'll be tossed aside with the rest.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> What I meant is only one bloodline is detailed in the bible, that of the Jews. All of the other "sons and daughters" of Noah(?) went on to become different groups of people, the Babylonians, the Syrians, the Egyptians etc... But even within Abram's family, the only ones who are followed in detail, are those who lead to JESUS. Only one branch of Abraham's family tree is followed, that of Isaac and Jacob and so on, right down to JESUS.


I knew that was what you meant. But they don't lead only to Jesus. They lead to NaturesChampion and to Ruth Bader Ginsburg and to Anthony Wiener and Eric Cantor.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> As I have said many times, The United States was not founded as a Democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. Obama is trying to make it a Democracy.


 :thumbup:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Do the buildings in Manhattan have rooftop gardens?


If there are privately owned apartments up there, yes. I think some new ones put their health clubs and swimming pools up there. Few of the roofs are meant to be used by the tenants. In old movies, and maybe real life, a lot of the roofs of old tenement buildings had pigeon coops where they would train pigeons. I think every roof in Manhattan has plenty of pigeons.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I was saying it as a " besides" and that in general the Jews who do not have intermarriage (which was incredibly uncommon at the time) could be traced back to Abraham regardless of who begot who.
> 
> There is so much inserted and changed it is somewhat hard to follow. Like how the Torah (I don't remember which verse) predicts the coming of Jesus, which it does not.
> 
> And I did specify that "mistaken" (actually, I said " maybe had not considered this" which is almost the same thing) is different than "hypocrisy".


I simply wondered why the notion of hypocrisy arose at all in that message. Never mind - it's not worth the time it takes.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I was saying it as a " besides" and that in general the Jews who do not have intermarriage (which was incredibly uncommon at the time) could be traced back to Abraham regardless of who begot who.
> 
> There is so much inserted and changed it is somewhat hard to follow. Like how the Torah (I don't remember which verse) predicts the coming of Jesus, which it does not.
> 
> And I did specify that "mistaken" (actually, I said " maybe had not considered this" which is almost the same thing) is different than "hypocrisy".


I read this article and learned more about the Mashiach. Of course, as a Christian I believe that his arrival will coincide with the second coming of CHRIST. I believe they will be one and the same. I understand that Jews don't believe this. Its just my perspective. 
http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> The Genealogy from Adam to Jesus Christ


And I still maintain that given the time and the will, you could just as easily discover the Genealogy from Adam to Kevin Bacon, and it proves nothing.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I just looked up read read about Tisha B'Av. Is the ninth of Av one specific day on the Jewish calendar? If it is one day, I'm shocked that both temples were destroyed on the same day. I didn't know that. I read about the five calamities all happening on the ninth of Av. That has to be divine. Too coincidental to be anything else. I'm learning so many new things. Thanks.
> 
> I'll say a special prayer today.


Yes it is one specific day, the ninth day of the month named Av, but if you believe that both temples were destroyed on that same day, then you don't understand the place of myth in religious history.


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## Country Bumpkins (Feb 18, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> And I still maintain that given the time and the will, you could just as easily discover the Genealogy from Adam to Kevin Bacon, and it proves nothing.


Your choice. You will know the truth one day.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It might explain why Tay Sachs is so prevalent in the Ashkenazi. A different genetic line.


I'd hardly call it "prevalent"; it is mercifully rare. But it might explain why few other than Ashkenazi Jews have the genes for it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> As I have said many times, The United States was not founded as a Democracy. It is a Constitutional Republic. Obama is trying to make it a Democracy.
> 
> The textbooks starting in 1960 mistakenly call it a Democracy. Revisionist History.


You're repeating yourself and you're also repeating your party leaders. I was in school before 1960, and we referred to it as a democracy. You see, a "Constitutional Republic" can also be a democracy. And now I'm repeating myself.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I read this article and learned more about the Mashiach. Of course, as a Christian I believe that his arrival will coincide with the second coming of CHRIST. I believe they will be one and the same. I understand that Jews don't believe this. Its just my perspective.
> http://www.jewfaq.org/mashiach.htm


Oy, vey. Jews don't necessarily believe that website, either.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Your choice. You will know the truth one day.


I already know the truth. The truth is that you evangelicals are a pain in the ... neck.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I understood that the children were surrendering themselves to the border patrol. Are the adults, as well?


Yes. They were told to do so because it's the easiest way to get to stay. Probably also the safest.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Country Bumpkin, WOW! That was complicated. Thanks for sharing.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> If there are privately owned apartments up there, yes. I think some new ones put their health clubs and swimming pools up there. Few of the roofs are meant to be used by the tenants. In old movies, and maybe real life, a lot of the roofs of old tenement buildings had pigeon coops where they would train pigeons. I think every roof in Manhattan has plenty of pigeons.


Interesting, thanks.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I already know the truth. The truth is that you evangelicals are a pain in the ... neck.


Poor Purl
I am in total agreement with you.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Natureschampion said:


> No, I will NOT stop. Your "Old Testament" is suposed to be OUR Torah. THEY ARE OUR stories and OUR experiences. The Torah gives a clear distinction between matzoh and manna. I'm sorry if your "translation" of our Torah fails to mention that. It doesn't make me wrong. It WAS part of the conversation, as KFN did not know what matzoh was and mentioned that her bible mentioned unleavened bread and MANNA. So it was part of KFN and MY conversation. But I guess you only think your posts are relavent and skipped over KFNs post on the subject. YOUR bad, not mine.
> 
> Yes, you brought up matzoh in the context of your communions. I did not dispute that, nor did I comment on your post other than in a positive and supportive manner. Unlike you, I am tolerant and respectful of other's different beliefs. conversation started before you reared your ugly, ignorant and hateful head.
> 
> ...


Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Yes it is one specific day, the ninth day of the month named Av, but if you believe that both temples were destroyed on that same day, then you don't understand the place of myth in religious history.


OK. I guess I don't. Here's where I read it.
http://www.jewfaq.org/holidayd.htm


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> I'd hardly call it "prevalent"; it is mercifully rare. But it might explain why few other than Ashkenazi Jews have the genes for it.


You're correct. I should have said " more" prevalent. Sorry!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Oy, vey. Jews don't necessarily believe that website, either.


Well, OK then! I'm trying!
It was one of the sources used by NC. I thought it was acceptable.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

Country Bumpkins said:


> Your choice. You will know the truth one day.


Country Bumpkins
I am way ahead of the game, I know it now.


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## Huckleberry (May 27, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


soloweygirl
just because you cannot follow the conversation here, we don't have to move. We are offended by your stuff and take it like big boys and girls. Grow up.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

deleted


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> http://www.knittingparadise.com/t-275083-84.html#5775042
> 
> I didn't say you posted a PM in public. What I said was that you took a private exchange and made it public, even going so far as to name KPG, which I hadn't done (though references to female Nazis probably gave it away to everyone reading them).
> 
> I said a few days ago that this was very boring; it's even more so the second time. Why ask SQM when I had given you the answer days earlier? Anyway, I'm done with this.


Simply because SQM said she was donning her hunting attire and would go looking for the posted PM. This has nothing to do with you. Apparently you are not "done with this" as here you are. You and Shirley need to say what you mean and mean what you say.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> My bloodline cannot be traced back to Abraham anymore than it can be traced back to Heathcliff, which would be my preference. There was so much intermarriage over the centuries that most Jews must have more than "Abraham's genes". I had my mitochondria tested and I came out H group which traces no further back than Western Europe. A friend of mine's traced back to the Middle East. I feel uncomfortable with Judaism and she loves it. Interesting.


I did hear of a study (see the article at http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html) about Aaron's genes and the Cohanim DNA project.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> You not attending church is on you, I had nothing to do with it.


Typical of blaming someone else for the choices they make. It's always someone else's fault.


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


Oy! So Slowey is suggesting we ghettoize the Jews on this thread. Sure and you can be the Queen of the Jewesses.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

SQM said:


> That's why I use it.


Go, girl!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> A sheinem dank.
> 
> If I expected to live to 120, I'd kill myself.


I think it dates back to Moses living to 120. He didn't have a Federation tour to get to Israel, poor chap.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

If anybody's interested, here's a couple of articles about the "lost" tribe of Jews in Africa. Its very interesting. Thanks, NC. I hadn't heard about this.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/136374#.U-Ehx-Uo5eQ
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8550614.stm


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I did hear of a study (see the article at http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html) about Aaron's genes and the Cohanim DNA project.


It says "page not found". :-(


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

soloweygirl said:


> Typical of blaming someone else for the choices they make. It's always someone else's fault.


Did you even read it? I doubt it!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> The converse is true here. We NEED basements to protect us from tornados. Very few homes don't have them. And it's great to have the extra space. I don't like things to be crowded and cluttered. I'm constantly weeding out but seem to have accumulated anyway. I have the wall of books and another wall of shelves filled with baskets of my craft stuff. We have a food pantry down there and the rest of the stuff is my Hubby's computer and electronic stuff. Great space.
> 
> When it comes to fiction, I like science fiction, thrillers and crime novels. I like to solve the crime before it's revealed. I like the excitement. I hate romance novels! Won't touch them! I read some religious fiction but nothing syrupy sweet, more mystery related, like relating to archeological discoveries, that sort of thing. I know I'll get made fun of for this, but apocalyptic novels. They all keep my brain busy.
> 
> ...


You may want to sample a book by Faye Kellerman. Her female protagonist is a traditionally Orthodox young widow, her male protagonist is a police detective. You should start with the first book, The Ritual Bath and see whether you like Rina Lazarus and Peter Decker. Good mysteries and an insight into how Orthodox women can live their lives in a modern world.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> You may want to sample a book by Faye Kellerman. Her female protagonist is a traditionally Orthodox young widow, her male protagonist is a police detective. You should start with the first book, The Ritual Bath and see whether you like Rina Lazarus and Peter Decker. Good mysteries and an insight into how Orthodox women can live their lives in a modern world.


I've read ALL of her books (unless ones come out in the last year). Her husbands too! They're great!

I think I actually read a book by their son too?


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Oy! So Slowey is suggesting we ghettoize the Jews on this thread. Sure and you can be the Queen of the Jewesses.


SQM, you could start a "Jews for Jesus" thread and schmear everyone there!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> SQM, you can start a "Jews for Jesus" thread and schmear everyone there!


Ha Ha. I only schmere my bagels.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> Ha Ha. I only schmere my bagels.


I doubt it; you probably love peanut butter and jelly schmeared on something.


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## Cindy S (Oct 20, 2013)

knitpresentgifts said:


> Some people who call themselves Christians, are not.


Like you??


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Thanks marylinknits! I will definitely do that.
> 
> You know, Pesach is my FAVORITE holiday.


My husband's too. He gets his annual home made borscht. And he is not the one who has to clean and change the dishes and pots. I have made it as easy on myself as I can with one pot each for milchig and fleishig, one fry pan each, and disposable dishes and foil baking pans. May not be eco friendly but for 9 days without a dishwasher, it is Marilyn friendly.

The fun is finding stuff I put away for Pesach to get it out of the kitchen!


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

knitpresentgifts said:


> I doubt it; you probably love peanut butter and jelly schmeared on something.


hey you are snooping in my kitchen. But yes I schmere P and J on one slice of bread and butter on my toast. Otherwise no other schmering.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I have not red the others, but mists of Avalon is my FAVORITE book! I love all of Marion Zimmer Bradley's work. My mom has the other two. Have you read "the books of Rachel"? It follows the lineage of Jewish women, all named Rachel, from the time of the Spanish Inquisition to the 1970s. It is quite moving.


Yes, thanks. I read it many years ago and found it both inspiring and heart breaking.

Have you read Unorthodox by Deborah Feldman? It is a memoir.


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## knitpresentgifts (May 21, 2013)

SQM said:


> hey you are snooping in my kitchen. But yes I schmere P and J on one slice of bread and butter on my toast. Otherwise no other schmering.


I know you like my sister.  

Check out a photo I just posted on Denim. The pic was in a large enclosed sanctuary for owls at the Calgary Zoo. I got a photograph's dream shot. Natural, centered, perfect light, color and staging; everything just worked.


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## soloweygirl (Jun 9, 2012)

SQM said:


> Oy! So Slowey is suggesting we ghettoize the Jews on this thread. Sure and you can be the Queen of the Jewesses.


If not a private forum or another thread, how about an existing thread. LOLL comes to mind - the only interest in any of this is from your little clique.

No thanks on the title/position.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> Sounds wonderful! Like my kind of party! I used to do that when I was in Hebrew school/high. I would love to see pictures of you dh's groggers. They sound like works of art.


These are the more recent ones. The two big ones are in the attic and it is too hot to go up there.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Natureschampion said:


> I think you misunderstood me. I was saying it as a " besides" and that in general the Jews who do not have intermarriage (which was incredibly uncommon at the time) could be traced back to Abraham regardless of who begot who.
> 
> There is so much inserted and changed it is somewhat hard to follow. Like how the Torah (I don't remember which verse) predicts the coming of Jesus, which it does not.
> 
> And I did specify that "mistaken" (actually, I said " maybe had not considered this" which is almost the same thing) is different than "hypocrisy".


We have the story of the Moabite Ruth who converted to Judaism and is thought to be the ancestor of King David.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If " bubbie" is grandma, what is gm? Your other grandma?


We have a family story about my second cousin Stevie. When he was in preschool, one of his friends told his mother that Stevie had really strange names for his grandparents. He called his grandmother Bobby (Bubbie) and his grandfather Sadie (Zadie).


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> If there are privately owned apartments up there, yes. I think some new ones put their health clubs and swimming pools up there. Few of the roofs are meant to be used by the tenants. In old movies, and maybe real life, a lot of the roofs of old tenement buildings had pigeon coops where they would train pigeons. I think every roof in Manhattan has plenty of pigeons.


We had clothes lines on "tar beach" when we lived in the 4 story building in Boro Park. One family grew tomatoes in pots and all 28 families in the building were invited to partake.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


Anybody except Solo offended? Oh, I can think of a couple, never mind.

She doesn't need to come over for Shabbos supper or the second Seder then.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> We have a family story about my second cousin Stevie. When he was in preschool, one of his friends told his mother that Stevie had really strange names for his grandparents. He called his grandmother Bobby (Bubbie) and his grandfather Sadie (Zadie).


Cute!


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> It says "page not found". :-(


I checked and you have to remove the apostrophe at the end

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html

Try now.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

knitpresentgifts said:


> SQM, you could start a "Jews for Jesus" thread and schmear everyone there!


They aren't Jews by religion. They accept Jesus, thus are Christians who come from Jewish roots. And they proselytize, which Jews are not supposed to do.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


Why would anyone be offended? Do people get offended when Christianity is the topic?


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've read ALL of her books (unless ones come out in the last year). Her husbands too! They're great!
> 
> I think I actually read a book by their son too?


She has "Murder 101" coming out in September. I keep track on www.fantasticfiction.com


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Well, OK then! I'm trying!
> It was one of the sources used by NC. I thought it was acceptable.


Don't you know the joke: if 2 Jews are speaking, there are 3 opinions?


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> If " bubbie" is grandma, what is gm? Your other grandma?


I'm sorry, I did not clarify. You are right-bubbie is grandmother in Yiddish. We called our great grandma "bubbie" bc that's what our parents called her. To make a distinction, my mothers mother is "grandma". My cousins kids call her "bubbie" to keep with tradition of our family. I know a few other "kids" my age who grew up galling their great gm "bubbie" as well. It is very uncommon, though. Both of my parents mothers are still alive. The "granny" I refer to in so many posts is dh's grandmother, whom we live with and I am the caregiver for.

Thanks for asking!


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## MaidInBedlam (Jul 24, 2012)

soloweygirl said:


> Why not just start a SEPARATE thread with the Jewish religion as its subject. If not a thread, then maybe a closed forum. That would be the best place. That way you can take your discussions to any level desired, and no one would be offended.


Would that be a separate but equal thread? Keep in mind that, in spite of joeysomm's original intention, this topic has done quite a bit of wandering off into all kinds of conversations that aren't about abortion.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Simply because SQM said she was donning her hunting attire and would go looking for the posted PM. This has nothing to do with you. Apparently you are not "done with this" as here you are. You and Shirley need to say what you mean and mean what you say.


This has nothing to do with me? You use it to claim I'm a liar, but it has nothing to do with me? Do you even know what you're saying? It certainly doesn't seem like it.

Stop bringing it up, and I won't get involved. And the way you people speak about Shirley, it's obvious why she can't stay away the way she'd like to.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

soloweygirl said:


> Typical of blaming someone else for the choices they make. It's always someone else's fault.


You not only don't understand what _you_ say; you don't understand what other people say, either.

You people are very big on blame, aren't you?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

SQM said:


> Oy! So Slowey is suggesting we ghettoize the Jews on this thread. Sure and you can be the Queen of the Jewesses.


Do you think Solow would join us in the ghetto? No, she wants us to leave so she can forget who she is.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Did you even read it? I doubt it!


She has serious trouble understanding the English language.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> Do you think Solow would join us in the ghetto? No, she wants us to leave so she can forget who she is.


Just because we are ignored doesn't mean we don't exist. Oh, wait! We aren't ignored, are we?


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Anybody except Solo offended? Oh, I can think of a couple, never mind.
> 
> She doesn't need to come over for Shabbos supper or the second Seder then.


See how mean and selfish you Libs are? I mean "typical Liberals."


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I checked and you have to remove the apostrophe at the end
> 
> http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48936742.html
> 
> Try now.


Thanks!

Now I'm really confused. I wonder how this genetic study jives with this one?

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/


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## Natureschampion (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey guys,
I got through most of the more recent posts but my eyes are failing horribly right now. I would like to get back to some of the posts that were in response to some of mine or I thought relevant. Unfortunately, I can't right now. I will see in a little while how my eyes are doing and go from there.

There are some wonderful thoughts here, from what I can tell! Have fun!

NC


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Poor Purl said:


> See how mean and selfish you Libs are? I mean "typical Liberals."


I welcome guests. Among other lovely people, Nebraska and Bonnie would be welcome and one or the other would sit at my husband's right side at the seder or get the first piece of home made challa for Shabbos.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

joeysomma said:


> The Two Miracles of Nature Some Israelis Say Protected Them During the Gaza Fighting
> 
> Aug. 5, 2014 1:46pm Sharona Schwartz
> 
> ...


Why don't you start a new thread? This one is about abortion.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Now I'm really confused. I wonder how this genetic study jives with this one?
> 
> http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/37821/title/Genetic-Roots-of-the-Ashkenazi-Jews/


Part of the sweet mystery of life. But one is patrilineal and the other matrilineal.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> The Two Miracles of Nature Some Israelis Say Protected Them During the Gaza Fighting
> 
> Aug. 5, 2014 1:46pm Sharona Schwartz
> 
> ...


Buffy the Vampire Slayer had an episode very similar to the first incident. Angel was sick and too weak to get away, and the sun was about to come out. Then it suddenly began to snow, right there in southern California, so the sun remained hidden and Angel was saved. A miracle!

I really liked the second story. It didn't require divine intervention, only people doing what they had to.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> She has "Murder 101" coming out in September. I keep track on www.fantasticfiction.com


Thanks. I'll check it out. I found it very interesting how Peter found out he was Jewish and then changed his whole life for Rina. It was interesting to learn about the dietary laws, the hand washing and Rina's reason for wearing a wig. I learned what a Yeshiva was. I loved how the two families were able to join together as one. They're not only crime novels but you get to learn something new.

Have you read Jonathan Kellermans books also?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Don't you know the joke: if 2 Jews are speaking, there are 3 opinions?


Nope. I'll lighten up. 
Wait a minute! Two Jews, three opinions?


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> I'm sorry, I did not clarify. You are right-bubbie is grandmother in Yiddish. We called our great grandma "bubbie" bc that's what our parents called her. To make a distinction, my mothers mother is "grandma". My cousins kids call her "bubbie" to keep with tradition of our family. I know a few other "kids" my age who grew up galling their great gm "bubbie" as well. It is very uncommon, though. Both of my parents mothers are still alive. The "granny" I refer to in so many posts is dh's grandmother, whom we live with and I am the caregiver for.
> 
> Thanks for asking!


Ooohhh! Thank you. I'm trying to keep up here. 

I commend you. You have more patience than I.


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## MarilynKnits (Aug 30, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Thanks. I'll check it out. I found it very interesting how Peter found out he was Jewish and then changed his whole life for Rina. It was interesting to learn about the dietary laws, the hand washing and Rina's reason for wearing a wig. I learned what a Yeshiva was. I loved how the two families were able to join together as one. They're not only crime novels but you get to learn something new.
> 
> Have you read Jonathan Kellermans books also?


I have read them all. But I found the newest one, "Killer", more disturbing than I can handle right now. I will try again in a month or so. I will have to wait for the blurb about his next book, "Motive", but the collaboration with his son Jesse, "The Golem of Hollywood", sounds interesting. It is due out in September.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Definitely* not* the same thing.


Of course not. They're two different things that can exist together. "Democracy" refers to the fact that it's all the people, not just an elite few, who choose their leaders; "republic" refers to the specific form of government in which the people are represented by a less unwieldy number of representatives to carry out the business of government.

Please don't trot out that list of countries with "democratic republic of" in their names to show that the US isn't on that list. It's also not named "the Republic of the United States of America"; so maybe it's not a republic, either.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

joeysomma said:


> Who does the offending??????????????


Can't any of you read? I know Solow can't, but I thought you could, Joey. The offending is done by the addressee of Huckleberry's message, clearly.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> See how mean and selfish you Libs are? I mean "typical Liberals."


I KNOW! I keep asking about this Jewish food and I don't get even one invite to dinner! :lol:


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Natureschampion said:


> Hey guys,
> I got through most of the more recent posts but my eyes are failing horribly right now. I would like to get back to some of the posts that were in response to some of mine or I thought relevant. Unfortunately, I can't right now. I will see in a little while how my eyes are doing and go from there.
> 
> There are some wonderful thoughts here, from what I can tell! Have fun!
> ...


Talk to ya later!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> Just because we are ignored doesn't mean we don't exist. Oh, wait! We aren't ignored, are we?


Not enough, at any rate.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I welcome guests. Among other lovely people, Nebraska and Bonnie would be welcome and one or the other would sit at my husband's right side at the seder or get the first piece of home made challa for Shabbos.


Aw! I just saw this. Thanks!


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

MarilynKnits said:


> I welcome guests. Among other lovely people, Nebraska and Bonnie would be welcome and one or the other would sit at my husband's right side at the seder or get the first piece of home made challa for Shabbos.


Good choices. Better than the one who would like to hide this discussion so her friends aren't offended by it.


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Why don't you start a new thread? This one is about abortion.


 :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## Poor Purl (Apr 14, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I KNOW! I keep asking about this Jewish food and I don't get even one invite to dinner! :lol:


Well, you already have Marilyn's, and now you have mine. Give me two days' notice before you arrive; sometimes we just have leftovers.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> Unfortunately, someday may be too late.
> 
> I do understand about why the right is trying to murder democracy, but I wondered whether Joey had any idea that this is what she's supporting. She'll be tossed aside with the rest.


As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute. 
I am happy to be forewarned that my life is meaningless to those people. At least I can starve with a smile on my face. Speaking of death panels...


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

MarilynKnits said:


> I have read them all. But I found the newest one, "Killer", more disturbing than I can handle right now. I will try again in a month or so. I will have to wait for the blurb about his next book, "Motive", but the collaboration with his son Jesse, "The Golem of Hollywood", sounds interesting. It is due out in September.


I've missed " Killer". I'll have to look for it. ?maybe? Does it have Milo Sturgis in it? Part of the series?


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Poor Purl said:


> And I still maintain that given the time and the will, you could just as easily discover the Genealogy from Adam to Kevin Bacon, and it proves nothing.


And I bet that given the time and the will you could find that a decent percentage of the offspring of those couplings were not actually Daddy's little child. 
Or do people really believe that all naughtiness was restricted to Sodom and Gomorrah and surrounding environs?


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## cookiequeen (Jun 15, 2011)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> I've missed " Killer". I'll have to look for it. ?maybe? Does it have Milo Sturgis in it? Part of the series?


I've read almost all, including killer. Now I'm on Guilt. Read most of Faye's books, too.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Poor Purl said:


> Well, you already have Marilyn's, and now you have mine. Give me two days' notice before you arrive; sometimes we just have leftovers.


Ahahahaha! I'll do that! 
You know? I could take a trip to New York and just take turns eating at all you guy's houses. Free food! :lol: 
Seriously? Thank you!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> As PT Barnum said, there's a sucker born every minute.
> I am happy to be forewarned that my life is meaningless to those people. At least I can starve with a smile on my face. Speaking of death panels...


NOW who's the conspiracy theorist? :XD: :XD: :XD:


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## SQM (Jun 22, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> Ahahahaha! I'll do that!
> You know? I could take a trip to New York and just take turns eating at all you guy's houses. Free food! :lol:
> Seriously? Thank you!


Come, but I take guests out to eat. Give notice so I will make some effort to sweep up the cat fur.


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## Knitanon (Sep 2, 2012)

Knitter from Nebraska said:


> NOW who's the conspiracy theorist? :XD: :XD: :XD:


LOL, that is not theory it is history in the making, doncha know!


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> And I bet that given the time and the will you could find that a decent percentage of the offspring of those couplings were not actually Daddy's little child.
> Or do people really believe that all naughtiness was restricted to Sodom and Gomorrah and surrounding environs?


Did you read Marilyn's link? Apparently you're wrong. Over time, Jewish women have been very faithful. The genealogy proves it. Interesting article. Check it out.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

cookiequeen said:


> I've read almost all, including killer. Now I'm on Guilt. Read most of Faye's books, too.


Another fan!

How about,
Joel Rosenberg?
Sara Paretsky?
Nancy Pickard?
Michael Chrichton?
David Baldacci?
Patricia Cornwell?
Sue Grafton?
Just some of my favorites.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

Puleese make it not what it is.



Poor Purl said:


> :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD: :XD:
> Or else it isn't what it is.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

SQM said:


> Come, but I take guests out to eat. Give notice so I will make some effort to sweep up the cat fur.


Hee hee! Do I get to sit in the cat's favorite place?
You know? Since I got leather furniture, I don't have to worry anymore. The cat doesn't like it. Do you think I could find a leather comforter for the guest room bed? That's where she's taken up residence.


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## Knitter from Nebraska (Jun 9, 2013)

Knitanon said:


> LOL, that is not theory it is history in the making, doncha know!


Whose history?


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

I think we should all agree to disagree (we all know who we are) and refrain from subjecting everyone to our disagreements. But that's just my opinion.

Oh, by the way, I see my zinnia avatar inspired you to change to hibiscus. We all must have a bit of the gardening bug.



knitpresentgifts said:


> You are lying. I asked you a SIMPLE question and suggested you may have already tasted Matzoh without realizing it. I was POLITE and tolerance never entered the discussion about a cracker.
> 
> As you and most have said, ANYONE can respond to ANY post. I asked of you and you responded to me.
> 
> Get over it.


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## damemary (Mar 14, 2012)

A truth? Of course. This hypocrisy has been the source of the battle from the beginning.



knitpresentgifts said:


> Some people who call themselves Christians, are not.


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## admin (Jan 12, 2011)

This is an automated notice.

This topic was split up because it reached high page count.
Please feel free to continue the conversation in the new topic that was automatically created here:

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